# *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread



## Silent Scone

**Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread*
Quote:


> [UPDATE JAN 2018]
> 
> *This thread now accepts Ram Test entries*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *HOW TO USE*
> 
> Get it from here, 9.99 euros / lifetime license:
> 
> https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/
> 
> Configure the settings to your preference in the graphical user interface and
> click the start button to begin testing. To stop testing, just click the same
> button again.
> 
> It is recommended to run the test for at least 10 minutes before drawing any
> conclusions about the stability of your system memory.
> 
> *
> To detect intermittent memory errors you should let the test run for at least one hour.*
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> [UPDATE JAN 2017]
> 
> This thread will now also include results posted for the Z270 platform. However please try to remember the rules below to keep the discussion from becoming confusing, as what may work on one platform may not be viable on the other.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> [UPDATE JAN 2016]
> 
> This thread will now also include results posted for the X99 platform. However please try to remember the following to keep the discussion from becoming confusing, as what may work on one platform may not be viable on the other.
> 
> *Please try to remember the following
> 
> Clarify what platform and CPU you are speaking about when asking a particular question or speaking about your experience.
> 
> Quote the user you are replying to when replying.
> 
> When posting stability results, be sure to include the CPU as described in the posting results instructions.
> 
> *
> Happy posting!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Overview*
> This thread is dedicated to showing the various memory configurations of users with DDR4 on Z170/Z270 and X99 chipsets.
> There is no strict criteria here, all things Z170/X99 memory overclocking welcome. However to enter the stability chart certain criteria is to be met as this is generally speaking dedicated to showing what is obtainable on both platforms at an operational level.
> 
> *If using ASUS within North America you can post here*:
> 
> ASUS North America Z170 Support / Q&A Thread
> ASUS North America X99 Support / Q&A Thread
> ASUS North America Z270 Support / Q&A Thread
> 
> *
> Broadwell-E info:*
> 
> Checkout the thermal control tool especially, this will be a god send for those who really want to push things.
> 
> How to get the best performance from Broadwell-E
> http://edgeup.asus.com/2016/05/get-best-performance-broadwell-e-processors-asus-thermal-control-tool/
> 
> X99-Deluxe II build:
> http://edgeup.asus.com/2016/05/x99-deluxe-ii-powers-prosumer-workstation-build/
> 
> X99-A II build:
> http://edgeup.asus.com/2016/05/x99-ii-motherboard-sweet-spot-broadwell-e-vr-builds/
> 
> X99-Strix:
> http://edgeup.asus.com/2016/05/the-rog-strix-x99-gaming-motherboard-illuminates-a-broadwell-e-gaming-build/
> 
> Rampage V Extreme Edition 10:
> http://edgeup.asus.com/2016/05/introducing-rampage-v-edition-10/
> 
> *Z270 info*:
> http://edgeup.asus.com/2017/01/03/z270-motherboard-guide/
> 
> *ROG DRAM Timing Control Guide
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Presets: This is the place to start when overclocking memory. Identify the ICs used on the memory modules and select the relevant profile. We've put a tremendous amount of time configuring settings to get the most from each memory type. Once the profile is selected, various parameters in the DRAM timing section will be applied for you. From there, manual tweaking is possible as required.
> 
> Maximus Tweak: Leave on auto unless experiencing instability. Mode 1 may allow more compatibility, while Mode 2 is better for performance and some memory modules. Auto defaults to Mode 2.
> 
> Memory timings will automatically be offset according to memory module SPD and memory frequency. Should you wish to make manual adjustments, the primary settings and third timings are the most important for overall memory performance. Most timings are set in DRAM clock cycles, hence a lower value results in a more aggressive setting (unless otherwise stated).
> 
> As always, performance increases from memory tuning are marginal and are generally only noticeable during synthetic benchmarks. Either way, voltage adjustments to VDIMM, VCCIO-D, Cache Voltage and to a lesser extent CPU Core Voltage & VCCIO-A may be necessary to facilitate tighter timings.
> 
> Primary Timings
> 
> CAS: Column Address Strobe, defines the time it takes for data to be ready for burst after a read command is issued. As CAS factors in more transactions than other primary timings, it is considered to be the most important in relation to random memory read performance. (See third timing section for further info on important timings).
> 
> To calculate the actual time period denoted by the number of clock cycles set for CAS we can use the following formula:
> 
> tCAS in Nano seconds=(CAS*2000)/Memory Frequency
> 
> This same formula can be applied to all memory timings that are set in DRAM clock cycles.
> 
> DRAM RAS TO CAS Latency: Also known as tRCD. Defines the time it takes to complete a row access after an activate command is issued to a rank of memory. This timing is of secondary importance behind CAS as memory is divided into rows and columns (each row contains 1024 column addresses). Once a row has been accessed, multiple CAS requests can be sent to the row the read or write data. While a row is "open" it is referred to as an open page. Up to eight pages can be open at any one time on a rank (a rank is one side of a memory module) of memory.
> 
> DRAM RAS# PRE Time: Also known as tRP. Defines the number of DRAM clock cycles it takes to precharge a row after a page close command is issued in preparation for the next row access to the same physical bank. As multiple pages can be open on a rank before a page close command is issued the impact of tRP towards memory performance is not as prevalent as CAS or tRCD - although the impact does increase if multiple page open and close requests are sent to the same memory IC and to a lesser extent rank (there are 8 physical ICs per rank and only one page can be open per IC at a time, making up the total of 8 open pages per rank simultaneously).
> 
> DRAM RAS Active Time: Also known as tRAS. This setting defines the number of DRAM cycles that elapse before a precharge command can be issued. The minimum clock cycles tRAS should be set to is the sum of CAS+tRCD+tRTP.
> 
> DRAM Command Mode: Also known as Command Rate. Specifies the number of DRAM clock cycles that elapse between issuing commands to the DIMMs after a chip select. The impact of Command Rate on performance can vary. For example, if most of the data requested by the CPU is in the same row, the impact of Command Rate becomes negligible. If however the banks in a rank have no open pages, and multiple banks need to be opened on that rank or across ranks, the impact of Command Rate increases.
> 
> Most DRAM module densities will operate fine with a 1N Command Rate. Memory modules containing older DRAM IC types may however need a 2N Command Rate.
> 
> Latency Boundary A sets timings for the main set of Third timings, lower is faster and tighter.
> Latency Boundary B sets timings for the secondary set of Third timings, lower is faster and tighter.
> 
> Manipulating Latency Boundary A and B, negates the need for setting third timings manually, unless granular control of an individual setting is required. For most users, we recommend tuning via the Latency Boundary settings. Advanced users who are tuning for Super Pi 32M may wish to set timings manually instead.
> 
> Latency Compensator when enabled tries to make opportunistic latency compensation that may increase performance or smoothen out the Memory training process. So try and compare overclocking and performance with it enabled and disabled. You can also trying enabling it when the whole system hangs at '55' or '03' or '69' when pushing tight timings with high frequencies.
> 
> Secondary Timings
> 
> DRAM RAS to RAS Delay:Also known as tRRD (activate to activate delay). Specifies the number of DRAM clock cycles between consecutive Activate (ACT) commands to different banks of memory on the same physical rank. The minimum spacing allowed at the chipset level is 4 DRAM clocks.
> 
> DRAM Ref Cycle Time: Also known as tRFC. Specifies the number of DRAM clocks that must elapse before a command can be issued to the DIMMs after a DRAM cell refresh.
> 
> DRAM Refresh Interval: The charge stored in DRAM cells diminishes over time and must be refreshed to avoid losing data. tREFI specifies the maximum time that can elapse before all DRAM cells are refreshed. The value for tREFI is calculated according to module density. A higher number than default is more aggressive as the cells will be refreshed less frequently.
> 
> During a refresh, the memory is not available for read or write transactions. Setting the memory to refresh more often than required can impact scores negatively in memory sensitive benchmarks. It can be worth tweaking the refresh interval to a larger value for improved performance. For 24/7 use, this setting is best left at default, as real world applications do not benefit to a noticeable degree by increasing this value.
> 
> DRAM Write Recovery Time: Defines the number of clock cycles that must elapse between a memory write operation and a precharge command. Most DRAM configurations will operate with a setting of 9 clocks up to DDR3-2500. Change to 12~16 clocks if experiencing instability.
> 
> DRAM Read to Precharge Time: Also known as tRTP. Specifies the spacing between the issuing of a read command and tRP (Precharge) when a read is followed by a page close request. The minimum possible spacing is limited by DDR3 burst length which is 4 DRAM clocks.
> 
> Most 2GB memory modules will operate fine with a setting of 4~6 clocks up to speeds of DDR3-2000 (depending upon the number of DIMMs used in tandem). High performance 4GB DIMMs (DDR3-2000+) can handle a setting of 4 clocks provided you are running 8GB of memory in total and that the processor memory controller is capable.
> 
> If running 8GB DIMMs a setting below 6 clocks at speeds higher than DDR3-1600 may be unstable so increase as required.
> 
> DRAM Four Activate Window: Also known as tFAW. This timing specifies the number of DRAM clocks that must elapse before more than four Activate commands can be sent to the same rank. The minimum spacing is tRRD*4, and since we know that the minimum value of tRRD is 4 clocks, we know that the minimum internal value for tFAW at the chipset level is 16 DRAM clocks.
> 
> As the effects of tFAW spacing are only realised after four Activates to the same DIMM, the overall performance impact of tFAW is not large, however, benchmarks like Super Pi 32m can benefit by setting tFAW to the minimum possible value.
> 
> As with tRRD, setting tFAW below its lowest possible value will result in the memory controller reverting to the lowest possible value (16 DRAM clocks or tRRD * 4).
> 
> DRAM Write to Read Delay: Also known as tWTR. Sets the number of DRAM clocks to wait before issuing a read command after a write command. The minimum internal spacing is 4 clocks. As with tRTP this value may need to be increased according to memory density and memory frequency.
> 
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse width: This setting can be left on Auto for all overclocking. CKE defines the minimum number of clocks that must elapse before the system can transition from normal operating to low power state and vice versa.
> 
> CAS Write Latency: CWL is column access time for write commands to the DIMMs. Typically, CWL is needs to be set at or +1 over the read CAS value. High performance DIMMs can run CWL equal to or up to 3 clocks below read CAS for benchmarking (within functional limits of the DIMMs and chipset).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Timings
> 
> On modern architectures like Haswell, page access is optimized such that back to back read timings in the third timing section can have a bigger impact on performance than primary settings. Memory interleaving and addressing optimization leads to the possibility of lots back to back read and writes (page hits) rather than random access (page misses).
> 
> In layman terms, the best way to describe this is to use the analogy of a hard drive. If data is fragmented, the head needs to move back and forth over the platter reading small bits of data. Similarly on memory, this would mean that CAS, wCL, tRCD, tRP and tRAS would factor more often - opening and closing memory pages across the DIMMs to read or write parts of data.
> 
> If data is not fragmented, the head can seek an area of the disc and read the data without needed to move back and forth. On a crude level, memory interleaving works in a similar way, ensuring that data is arranged into rows across ICs so that pages don't have to be open and closed as often to access it - this saves on excessive primary timing command requirements. That's why some of the back to back read and write timings in the third timing section of UEFI have a bigger impact on performance than the primary timings which were more important on older platforms.
> 
> If the required data is in sequence, CAS can be performed to access it and subsequent requests can be spaced by tRDRD (as low as 4 clocks). A lot of these requests can be sent before a page close request is required - which relies on the primary timing set (tRAS then tRP (tRC must elapse) followed by tRCD and then CAS). That's why the third timing spacing has more impact in memory sensitive benchmarks (memory frequency and other factors aside).
> 
> tRDRD: Sets the delay between consecutive read requests to the same page. From a performance perspective, this setting is best kept at 4 clocks. Relax only if the memory is not stable or the system will not POST. Very few memory modules can handle a setting of 4 clocks at speeds above DDR3-2400 so you may need to relax accordingly, although the performance hit may negate any gains in frequency.
> 
> tRDRD_dr: Sets the delay between consecutive read requests where the subsequent read is on a different rank. A setting of 6 clocks or higher is required for most DIMMs.
> 
> tRDRD (dd): Sets the delay between consecutive read requests where the subsequent read is on a different DIMM. A setting of 6 clocks or higher is required for most DIMMs.
> 
> tWRRD: Sets the delay between a write transaction and read command. The minimum value we recommend is tWCL+tWTR.
> 
> Auto is preferred from a stability perspective, while setting as close to the minimum value as possible is best from a performance perspective. For Super Pi 32m, try tWCl+tWTR+2 as a starting point. If that is stable, then try -1 clock, if not, add+1 and repeat until stable.
> 
> tWRRD_dr: Sets the delay between a write transaction and read command where the subsequent read is on a different rank. Keeping this setting as close to 4 clocks as possible is advised, although it will need to be relaxed to 6+ clocks at high operating frequency or when using high density memory configurations.
> 
> tWRRD_dd: Sets the delay between a write transaction and read command where the subsequent read is on a different DIMM. Keeping this setting as close to 4 clocks as possible is advised, although it will need to be relaxed to 6+ clocks at high operating frequency or when using high density memory configurations.
> 
> Dec_WRD: May give a small performance increase at speeds lower than DDR3-1600 with CAS 6. Can be left on Auto for all other use.
> 
> The following timings have a minimum spacing of Read CAS. The default rules space these settings well, so adjustment should not be required unless as a last resort. Setting equal to CAS is stressful on the DIMMs and IMC. Voltages may need to be increased to run the minimum value that POSTs.
> 
> tRDWR: Sets the delay from a read to a write transaction.
> 
> tRDWR_dr: Sets the delay from a read to a write transaction where the write is on a different rank.
> 
> tRDWR_dd: Sets the delay from a read to a write transaction where the write is on a different DIMM.
> 
> MISC
> 
> MRC Fast BOOT: When enabled, bypasses memory retraining on warm resets. Disabled retrains memory to counter any drift due to thermal changes. At higher memory frequencies the retraining process can interfere with system stability, hence this setting is enabled with auto by default. Should not need changing from Auto unless the system becomes unstable.
> 
> DRAM CLK Period: Allows the application of different memory timing settings than default for the operating frequency. Each number in the scale corresponds to a DRAM divider. The lowest setting being DDR3-800. Ordinarily, the timing set applied automatically tracks the DRAM ratio selected. This setting allows us to force timing sets from different dividers to be used with the selected DRAM ratio.
> 
> A setting of 14 is recommended for high DRAM operating frequencies. For all other use, leave on Auto.
> 
> Scrambler Setting: Alternates data patterns to minimize the impact of load transients and noise on the memory bus. A setting of optimized is recommended for most configurations.
> 
> DQ, DQS and CMD Sense Amplifier: Alters the bias on signal lines to avoid mis-reads. The Sense Amplifiers work good at Auto which lets BIOS decide the best for each. Reducing usually is better. Reducing DQ Sense and CMD Sense to -1~ -6 may stabilize things further when high VDIMM is used (2.2+v for example)
> 
> DRAM Swizzling Bit 0, 1 ,2, 3:
> 
> Enable Bit 0 for best OC most times, but disabling may help uncommon DRAM setups.
> 
> Enable Bit 1 for best OC most times, but disabling may sometimes help some 4GB DRAM modules.
> 
> Disabling Bit 2 helps high frequency overclocking at the expense of performance. Enabling improves performance but may need several tries to boot when frequencies are high and timings are tight. You can retry training when the system hangs at '55' or '03' or '69' by pressing reset here and waiting for the rig to complete a full reset.
> Enabling Bit 3 usually helps overclocking and stability unless the IMC is unstable at cold temperatures (Ln2 cooling) in which case try disabling.
> 
> RAW MHz Aid: May help to improve stability when using DRAM ratios above DDR3-3100 at the expense of performance.
> 
> IC Optimizer: IC Optimizer sets background invisible tweaks for the various DRAM ICs. Note that these were fine-tuned with specific DRAM and CPUs so it may help or harm depending on the likeness of the ones on your hands. So try with Auto first, then try with the one for your ICs and compare. These will get updated over time in future BIOSes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For stability results, using the recommendations from [email protected] found below and in the overview seem the most requisite on recent platforms:
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Google stressapp test via Linux Mint (or another compatible Linux disti) is the best memory
> stress test available. Google use this stress test to evaluate memory stability of their servers
> - nothing more needs to be said about how valid that makes this as a stress test tool.
> 
> 
> Install Linux Mint from here: http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
> Install the Google Stress App test from here: http://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/stressapptest
> Once installed open "Terminal" and type the following: stressapptest -W -s 3600
> This will run the stressapp for one hour. The test will log any errors as it runs.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To bring up system info within Mint Terminal, type: *sudo dmidecode type 17* and scroll to the relevant info.
> 
> *For those who do not wish to install Mint to run Stressapp test:*
> 
> *HCI Memtest can be run via DOS or Windows.* http://hcidesign.com/memtest/
> 
> *An instance needs to be opened for each individual thread, covering a total of 90-95% of memory, giving the OS a little breathing room.
> *
> As an example i5 6600K - 8GB RAM
> 
> 4 instances with 1750MB per instance.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> NOTE: Version 5.0 notes state that it's 30% faster than previous versions. For testing densities beyond 16GB - it's recommended you use 5.0 Pro.
> *
> http://hcidesign.com/memtest/
> 
> *Stability Results*
> 
> Please submit results with the following format.
> 
> *GSAT Results
> *For sake of simplicity submitted results will only record primary timing sets, but feel free to show subsequent secondary and terts within screenshot.
> Linux Mint's Stressapp test needs to be run for a minimum of 1 hour by typing stressapptest -W -s 3600 in the Terminal.
> To take a screenshot in Terminal type: gnome-screenshot
> 
> *HCI*
> HCI consider 1000% to be the 'golden standard' however for larger densities this can be time consuming. *A minimal coverage of two laps (200%) is required to be added to the table for HCI for density over 16GB. 16GB or less requires a minimum of 4 laps (400%)
> *
> 
> Example:
> 
> Silent Scone--i56600K @4.6/4.3---3000Mhz-C15-16-16-39-2T----1.37v---SA 1.05v---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> Or
> Silent Scone--i56600K @4.6/4.3---3000Mhz-C15-16-16-39-2T----1.37v---SA 1.05v---HCI 1500%
> 
> *NOTE:* *This is not a leaderboard, as it is not a benchmark.* This threads main purpose is to both discuss information and various results and to gauge what is possible between different configurations, DIMM capabilities and CPU samples. Results are welcome all the way up the frequency spectrum. If it's obtainable, it should be posted!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Should go without staying that general system and CPU stability should be gauged via the suggested means before attempting an outright memory stability test.
> 
> I will organise the results at some point (as well as post some of my own) this weekend and update whenever I get time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xwlVy-ZL1o_59Z7A8th6iHXtXEYnDgrseT-VxAapBWU/pubhtml?widget=true&headers=false
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Shadowdane

Will have to keep an eye on this thread... looking to upgrade to Skylake, but haven't decided on a memory kit yet.


----------



## Sin0822

NVM, i saw it said memory stability thread! haha Memtest makes sense then.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sin0822*
> 
> NVM, i saw it said memory stability thread! haha Memtest makes sense then.


Indeed lol. This is for people who've already established a reasonably stable overclock already via other suites such as Realbench, OCT and AIDA64


----------



## Z0eff

Subscribed, will be interesting to see what kind of results we end up with.


----------



## Silent Scone

Silent Scone---6600K @4.6/4.3---3000Mhz-C15-16-16-39-1T----1.37v---SA 1.05v---HCI 1000%


----------



## llantant

Subbed. Will post when my stuff gets here


----------



## Silent Scone

Guess there really is a stock shortage currently.


----------



## [email protected]

GSkill Ripjaws V DDR4-3600 2 X 4GB kit at XMP defaults on Maximus VIII Hero:


2 hours of Stressapp pass:


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> GSkill Ripjaws V DDR4-3600 2 X 4GB kit at XMP defaults on Maximus VIII Hero:
> 
> 
> 2 hours of Stressapp pass:


Nice nice. I cant wait to try this board out!


----------



## [email protected]

GSkill Ripjaws V DDR4-3600 2 X 4GB kit at XMP but CR1 set manually on Maximus VIII Hero (all default voltages):


----------



## Silent Scone




----------



## [email protected]

Raja--i5-6700K @4.2/4.1---DDR4-3733-C18-19-47-1T----1.40v---SA Auto & IO Auto ---Stressapptest----2 Hours


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Raja--i5-6700K @4.2/4.1---DDR4-3733-C18-19-47-1T----1.40v---SA Auto & IO Auto ---Stressapptest----2 Hours


Does the SA and IO auto adjust on these boards like vcore? Wondering the same for LLC, someone said they got best results from leaving it on auto. I'm using the z170 Deluxe.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> Does the SA and IO auto adjust on these boards like vcore? Wondering the same for LLC, someone said they got best results from leaving it on auto. I'm using the z170 Deluxe.


Yep, Auto is "automatic".


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> Does the SA and IO auto adjust on these boards like vcore? Wondering the same for LLC, someone said they got best results from leaving it on auto. I'm using the z170 Deluxe.


I had no trouble dialling in 3000 and 3200 with auto, I set a lower manual system agent to see what I could get away with. If there's no instability whilst in auto there is no real reason to change this. Might need to play with it above these speeds though on some cpus, I've yet to try


----------



## seechay

I'm having issues posting on the stock XMP of my RAM. On reboots I sometimes get d0, but just restarting again I'll come boot fine after "Resetting my overclock settings by pressing F1." I haven't begun to overclock yet, because of this. Additionally my boot time is incredibly slow going through post. Anyone have any ideas? @[email protected]? I'm using 2 sets of F4-3000C15D-16GVR and the rest of my info is in my sig. When letting my bios auto adjust my ram, it sets it to 2133 with 1.2v. I just updated my bios to 0508 using the EZUpdate last night and it didn't change anything.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seechay*
> 
> I'm having issues posting on the stock XMP of my RAM. On reboots I sometimes get d0, but just restarting again I'll come boot fine after "Resetting my overclock settings by pressing F1." I haven't begun to overclock yet, because of this. Additionally my boot time is incredibly slow going through post. Anyone have any ideas? @[email protected]? I'm using 2 sets of F4-3000C15D-16GVR and the rest of my info is in my sig. When letting my bios auto adjust my ram, it sets it to 2133 with 1.2v. I just updated my bios to 0508 using the EZUpdate last night and it didn't change anything.


Two sets of DRAM is likely the issue. Remove one set. XMP is not made for two sets, it is made for one.


----------



## seechay

I'll try that out when I get home. If that's the case, can I just manually set the speed, timings and voltage to get it to work? Or do I need to get a quad channel kit?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seechay*
> 
> I'll try that out when I get home. If that's the case, can I just manually set the speed, timings and voltage to get it to work? Or do I need to get a quad channel kit?


You can try, but there are no promises it will work at the rated timings, frequency and voltage of a single kit. You may need to tune a lot to get both kits stable.

I would avoid 4 DIMM kits binned for X99 for similar purpose - look for a Z170 4 DIMM memory kit if you want a single kit.


----------



## Rubashka

sub


----------



## seechay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> You can try, but there are no promises it will work at the rated timings, frequency and voltage of a single kit. You may need to tune a lot to get both kits stable.
> 
> I would avoid 4 DIMM kits binned for X99 for similar purpose - look for a Z170 4 DIMM memory kit if you want a single kit.


Do you think this one would be fine? It's not in the QVL, but according to Newegg it's for Z170.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231903


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seechay*
> 
> Do you think this one would be fine? It's not in the QVL, but according to Newegg it's for Z170.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231903


Difficult to say - at that type of density/freq it may not be plug and play. I dont have a kit like that here but will ask.


----------



## Strife21

Question on memory I am running some 2x8gb G.Skill Rip Jaws 4 (3000mhz) 15-15-15-35 @ 1.35v Model F4-3000C15D-16GRK. So memory works as advertised with command rate at 2 but won't post if I set it to 1. Is it worth it to change timings to try and get it to post at 1T? If so any suggestions what timings I should try? Or should I try and increase voltage instead? If so how how high is it to increase on skylake?


----------



## [email protected]

Not really an ASRock support guy - but you will likely need to set higher DRAM voltage and possibly VCCSA and IO.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Not really an ASRock support guy - but you will likely need to set higher DRAM voltage and possibly VCCSA and IO.


Yea I know haha. Just curious if you had any tips. I have always run my memory at stock so just a bit curious. Has a safe max voltage for dram been determined on skylake?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Not really an ASRock support guy - but you will likely need to set higher DRAM voltage and possibly VCCSA and IO.


How come?


----------



## [email protected]

M....u....s....t.....r...e...s...i...s....t....


----------



## Silent Scone

LOL, as my mother used to say if it's true one shouldn't take offence.

Someone has to keep food on the table in the fatal1ty house hold









(Just kidding Asrock)


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seechay*
> 
> Do you think this one would be fine? It's not in the QVL, but according to Newegg it's for Z170.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231903


GSKill tells me they have validated the kit on the Z170 DELUXE, MAXIMUS VIII HERO, and MAXIMUS VIII GENE


----------



## seechay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> GSKill tells me they have validated the kit on the Z170 DELUXE, MAXIMUS VIII HERO, and MAXIMUS VIII GENE


Thanks for the update







If I have issues I'll pick that kit up, but I've manually set the timings to 15-15-15-35-2N @ 1.35v and I haven't had any issues at all. I've been playing around with my OC and I'm stable at 4.6ghz with 1.3v adaptive. I'm working on cranking it up to 4.7 (but so far the temps are 75c, so more likely going to just lower the voltage on my 4.6). As far as the RAM goes, do you think I should attempt to drop my command rate to 1N? I haven't tried it yet, so not sure how it'll behave.


----------



## [email protected]

You can try that. May need to increase DRAM voltage and SA/IO voltages to get it stable.


----------



## Strife21

Raja,

I took back my ASrock z170 extreme 6 and purchased a Asus Asus MAximus VIII Hero. I am having some trouble with my memory thought. If I try and put my RAM G.Skill F4-3000C15D-16GRK 2x8gb at its xmp settings the computer fails to post. This memory is on the approved listed of RAM for the board. It does post at lower speeds though.

This ram worked perfectly fine in the Asrock board at its XMP and rated timings. Do you have any suggestions or know why it would not work?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Raja,
> 
> I took back my ASrock z170 extreme 6 and purchased a Asus Asus MAximus VIII Hero. I am having some trouble with my memory thought. If I try and put my RAM G.Skill F4-3000C15D-16GRK 2x8gb at its xmp settings the computer fails to post. This memory is on the approved listed of RAM for the board. It does post at lower speeds though.
> 
> This ram worked perfectly fine in the Asrock board at its XMP and rated timings. Do you have any suggestions or know why it would not work?


Increase SA and IO voltage.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Raja,
> 
> I took back my ASrock z170 extreme 6 and purchased a Asus Asus MAximus VIII Hero. I am having some trouble with my memory thought. If I try and put my RAM G.Skill F4-3000C15D-16GRK 2x8gb at its xmp settings the computer fails to post. This memory is on the approved listed of RAM for the board. It does post at lower speeds though.
> 
> This ram worked perfectly fine in the Asrock board at its XMP and rated timings. Do you have any suggestions or know why it would not work?


Hello

X99 memory will most times need tuning by hand for XMP settings. Try increasing memory, SA and/or IO voltage a bit. If that fails Instead of XMP try setting the 4 primary timings, speed and voltage manually.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Increase SA and IO voltage.


Can you recommend a safe voltage to use for these two settings?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Can you recommend a safe voltage to use for these two settings?


There is a 6700K OC overview in the ASUS Z170 Q&A thread. I use up to 1.30V for both - tho you should not need that much at the clocks you are running.


----------



## Strife21

Do you have a link to that thread by any chance?


----------



## [email protected]

Will do one better and teach you how to fish: Click on the down arrow next to my user name then "threads started", that will list them all


----------



## Strife21

So I increased the system agent to 1.20 and the VCCIO to 1.15 and it seems to have done the trick.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Will do one better and teach you how to fish: Click on the down arrow next to my user name then "threads started", that will list them all


Thanks for the tip, kinda new to the forums. Didn't realize you could do that. The quality of this board is fantastic.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> So I increased the system agent to 1.20 and the VCCIO to 1.15 and it seems to have done the trick.


Nice.


----------



## Scoundrel

It would be extremely helpfull if someone could make an ISO availabe with NIC drivers embedded and maybe even the stressapp test installed as well.
I got as far as booting mint from an USB drive...but no internet connectivity and no Linux knowledge makes this a bit hard to deal with.


----------



## [email protected]

Mint has embedded drivers that work on the Intel NICs of ASUS boards - works fine on my side.


----------



## Scoundrel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Mint has embedded drivers that work on the Intel NICs of ASUS boards - works fine on my side.


I have a Hero VIII, so i should be fine i guess....wierdly i dont see any NIC's and it says "no internet connection" maybe just using rufus to create a bootable USB of the Cinnamon 64 bit ISO is not the right way to do it?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scoundrel*
> 
> I have a Hero VIII, so i should be fine i guess....wierdly i dont see any NIC's and it says "no internet connection" maybe just using rufus to create a bootable USB of the Cinnamon 64 bit ISO is not the right way to do it?


I install to a hard drive and plug in the ethernet cable. That works for me.


----------



## AndreK

I also have problems with the internet connection, i used linux 17.2 cinnamon and mate.
Edit: MIII Ranger

There are not so many testresults here.
Should i test my Kingston HyperX Fury DDR4 2666 8GB?
I was reading it has Hynix chips.
I'm planning to overclock it to 3000MHz with 1,35V but i'm not in a hurry myself


----------



## Scoundrel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I install to a hard drive and plug in the ethernet cable. That works for me.


Ahh ok thanks







,
I thought everybody just USB or DVD booted these Linux OS'es...I'll try installing it on a harddrive then.


----------



## [email protected]

If you can't get it to work use Windows and HCI instead.


----------



## Strife21

So I spoke too soon the the voltages seemed to help it post for a bit then got failed posts again. Dropped it down to 2800 from 3000 everything works fine.

I tried Dram voltage from 1.36v to 1.38v
VCCIO from 1.12v-1.20v
SysAgent from 1.12v-1.25v

Manually entered the timings and stuff too. I guess as good as I am going to get on this kit is 2800 even though it was working another board find at 3000. However this board is much better so, I'll take it.


----------



## NerfedZombie

Why not include some undervolted DDR3 sticks?


----------



## Shadowdane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> So I spoke too soon the the voltages seemed to help it post for a bit then got failed posts again. Dropped it down to 2800 from 3000 everything works fine.
> 
> I tried Dram voltage from 1.36v to 1.38v
> VCCIO from 1.12v-1.20v
> SysAgent from 1.12v-1.25v
> 
> Manually entered the timings and stuff too. I guess as good as I am going to get on this kit is 2800 even though it was working another board find at 3000. However this board is much better so, I'll take it.


What timings are you running for DDR4-2800?
I bought a G.Skill kit which runs at 15-15-15-35 @ 1.25v, I'm hoping I can tighten the timings to Cas 13 or 14 if I run them at 1.3 to 1.35v.

Still waiting on my CPU to arrive, so no idea when I'll be able to test that.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> So I spoke too soon the the voltages seemed to help it post for a bit then got failed posts again. Dropped it down to 2800 from 3000 everything works fine.
> 
> I tried Dram voltage from 1.36v to 1.38v
> VCCIO from 1.12v-1.20v
> SysAgent from 1.12v-1.25v
> 
> Manually entered the timings and stuff too. I guess as good as I am going to get on this kit is 2800 even though it was working another board find at 3000. However this board is much better so, I'll take it.


Try Maximus Tweak Mode 1 in the DRAM timing page with the elevated SA and IO voltages.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Try Maximus Tweak Mode 1 in the DRAM timing page with the elevated SA and IO voltages.


Well this has worked after extensive testing before I posted. Mode 1 in the dram timings page has let this memory run at its rated speeds and timings with no issues. With it enabled I can even leave the vccio and sys agent on auto and still have stability.

Thanks man.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadowdane*
> 
> What timings are you running for DDR4-2800?
> I bought a G.Skill kit which runs at 15-15-15-35 @ 1.25v, I'm hoping I can tighten the timings to Cas 13 or 14 if I run them at 1.3 to 1.35v.
> 
> Still waiting on my CPU to arrive, so no idea when I'll be able to test that.


I was running the timings you have listed but at 1.35v. tweak settings mode 1 has resolved my issues tho.


----------



## [email protected]

Tweak Mode 1 uses a less aggressive set of memory sub-timings.


----------



## Scoundrel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Tweak Mode 1 uses a less aggressive set of memory sub-timings.


Would you also recommend these ASUS Tweak Modes when overclocking memory, lets say overclocking DDR4 3200 to reach 3600mhz, or is VCCIO and SA more relevant if the memory works fine at XMP settings on their default rated speeds?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scoundrel*
> 
> Would you also recommend these ASUS Tweak Modes when overclocking memory, lets say overclocking DDR4 3200 to reach 3600mhz, or is VCCIO and SA more relevant if the memory works fine at XMP settings on their default rated speeds?


You will need to experiment to find out what helps more to stabilize the system. Could be one, the other, or both.


----------



## Scoundrel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> You will need to experiment to find out what helps more to stabilize the system. Could be one, the other, or both.


I was just thinking that increasing the crazy-confusing sub-timings below the more common 16-18-18-36 -T2 timings would be nessesary pretty fast after increasing the clock speeds just a little bit.
I have tried just tinkering with speed by increasing DRAM Voltage @ 1.4v VCCIO @ 1.3v and SA @1.25v but my memory crapped out shortly after 3333mhz so i didnt bother at all after that. These Tweak modes might just be what takes me beyond 3500mhz.


----------



## cookiesowns

Where's the one for X99


----------



## [email protected]

Feel free to start one, the info in the first post is not proprietary. However, there are only two of us on the forum that understand memory timings and we cannot be in all places at once or answer everything as people would like us to.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Where's the one for X99


I didn't feel the thread would serve it's purpose as well if it was platform agnostic, it would have been possible to add in other platforms but then that could have created congestion with results and confusion. Maybe we can add in X99..., but I draw the line at DDR4


----------



## Praz

Hello

Based on the first post, quoted below, Skylake only would be keeping with the intent of the thread. The DDR4 architecture is the only common link between X99 and Skylake. There is no comparison value as far as what may be optimal regarding obtainable speeds, timings or performance across the two platforms.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This threads main purpose is to both discuss information and various results and to gauge what is possible between different configurations, DIMM capabilities and CPU samples. Results are welcome all the way up the frequency spectrum. If it's obtainable, it should be posted!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## Silent Scone

Yes, even with the use of a separate sheet I do not think there would be much benefit for X99 at this stage in the platforms life given there are plenty of results for people to gauge what is reasonable. Keeping the thread proprietary means that all discussion is kept to Skylake which hopefully will make it easier for people to digest looking for information


----------



## sauced

So I've had some interesting findings with trying to get XMP working on my DD4 3200 corsair set with a Asus Z170-A motherboard.

When I first built the PC I had to up the SA and IO voltage to get it to post with XMP to 1.25 SA and 1.20 IO.

After awhile I tried lowering the voltages after seeing someone killed their 6700k somehow and it seemed to be memory controller related.

It would be unstable with auto/lower voltage than 1.25SA and 1.20IO with the XMP profile enabled.

Though the system was stable at higher voltages, my USB sound DAC was dropping sound like crazy. Every three seconds in games the audio would cut out and distort, come back and cut out and distort again. If I switched to onboard realtek sound I would get loud popping and extreme distortion after about 30 minutes of gaming.

I found last night when I lowered the SA and IO voltages the system wasn't stable but the USB DAC sound issues were gone and played all sound without a hitch. Turned the voltage back up and the cutting out and distorted sound came right back.

I found a beta bios update for my board yesterday that I upgraded to and it seems to have fixed all the problems.

Z170-A BIOS 0901
1.Update Intel ME version to 1168
2.Enhance DDR4 compatibility

After the upgrade I was able to turn SA and IO voltage back to Auto and I passed 4 hours of realbench and 4 hours of HCI memtest flawlessly with XMP on. Before the bios update the system would crash with XMP on at auto voltage. Sound is perfect now too.

So if you're getting audio issues and have added voltage to SA or IO that could be your issue.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sauced*
> 
> So I've had some interesting findings with trying to get XMP working on my DD4 3200 corsair set with a Asus Z170-A motherboard.
> 
> When I first built the PC I had to up the SA and IO voltage to get it to post with XMP to 1.25 SA and 1.20 IO.
> 
> After awhile I tried lowering the voltages after seeing someone killed their 6700k somehow and it seemed to be memory controller related.


The System Agent voltage should be fine within 1.3v. I'd be interested to see how someone managed to conclude the CPU failure was memory controller related, and how much voltage was being applied throughout the system. Can't really comment on the audio issues vicariously, seems odd


----------



## Derp

Can anyone comment on how much better the Google Stress App is at detecting instability compared to HCI memtest? I have used the free version of HCI for years and found it much better than memtest86. I don't have anything to boot Linux from atm but I can go pick something up if this test is clearly superior.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Can anyone comment on how much better the Google Stress App is at detecting instability compared to HCI memtest? I have used the free version of HCI for years and found it much better than memtest86. I don't have anything to boot Linux from atm but I can go pick something up if this test is clearly superior.


Stressapp is more stressful than HCI for testing memory alone. HCI's load is a bit more spread to the cache, while Stressapp is more memory bus isolating. They both have their use, but if testing memory alone, then Stressapp is a quicker way of finding errors.


----------



## Silent Scone

Yep, around 1500% pass will take you substantially longer than running stressapp


----------



## [email protected]

Maximus VIII Extreme

Raja--6700K @4.8/4.8---DDR4-3733-C18-19-47-1T----1.40v---SA Auto & IO Auto ---Stressapptest----2 Hours and 1000% HCI pass:

14C water temp.


----------



## Silent Scone

mmm. Appetising







.

[EDIT]

Ignore previous, I read that as 1.4V SA lol. Will have some different results to post later in the week


----------



## FiShBuRn

FiShBuRn--i7-6700K @4.6/4.2---3200Mhz-C15-17-17-35-1T----1.35v---SA Auto & IO Auto---HCI 2900%


----------



## Silent Scone




----------



## Shadowdane

i7-6700K @ 4.4Ghz (~1.23v) - DDR4-2800 14-14-14-34-1T @ 1.35v



I bet I can get the timings lower on these, will have to see if they can do Cas 13.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadowdane*
> 
> i7-6700K @ 4.4Ghz (~1.23v) - DDR4-2800 14-14-14-34-1T @ 1.35v
> 
> 
> 
> I bet I can get the timings lower on these, will have to see if they can do Cas 13.


You've got a bit of headroom voltage wise so shouldn't be too difficult







. Only 600% coverage in the screenshot though


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadowdane*
> 
> i7-6700K @ 4.4Ghz (~1.23v) - DDR4-2800 14-14-14-34-1T @ 1.35v
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet I can get the timings lower on these, will have to see if they can do Cas 13.


Hello

For 16GB the amount of memory being used per instance needs to be increased. Total memory allocated for HCI between 90% and 95% of available memory.


----------



## Silent Scone

Well spotted, this too. No point in only allocating half available memory to test. Defeats the very purpose


----------



## Silent Scone

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-457-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=2556

Reasonably priced LPX kit.

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeance-lpx-8gb-2x4gb-ddr4-dram-3600mhz-c18-memory-kit-black-cmk8gx4m2b3600c18


----------



## Advil000

Raja,

As you may not be monitoring all threads here, I just noticed the Maximus Ranger VIII doesn't the Maximus Tweak option in Dram Timings. No "Mode 1" option.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Advil000*
> 
> Raja,
> 
> As you may not be monitoring all threads here, I just noticed the Maximus Ranger VIII doesn't the Maximus Tweak option in Dram Timings. No "Mode 1" option.


Set tRFC to 390 manually and see if that helps.

If not set the following:

trdrd_dr 7
trdwr_dr 11
twrrd_dr 9
twrrd_dd 9

-Raja


----------



## [email protected]

Maximus VIII Extreme i7-6700K DDR4-3200 4 DIMM (16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX at XMP (default settings)


----------



## Silent Scone

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-067-TG

These might be worth a look


----------



## Advil000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Set tRFC to 390 manually and see if that helps.
> 
> If not set the following:
> 
> trdrd_dr 7
> trdwr_dr 11
> twrrd_dr 9
> twrrd_dd 9
> 
> -Raja


Still no dice. Still no post at all above 2700. Didn't improve anything. But it was something to try. Any more ideas?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Advil000*
> 
> Still no dice. Still no post at all above 2700. Didn't improve anything. But it was something to try. Any more ideas?


Keep all settings above and increase SA and IO voltage.


----------



## Silent Scone

Would we (royal we, Raja Praz) say that Stressapp is strained more with or without software rendering mode? Or maybe closer to the truth it really doesn't matter


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Would we (royal we, Raja Praz) say that Stressapp is strained more with or without software rendering mode? Or maybe closer to the truth it really doesn't matter


If anything its less strained due to software rendering mode hogging CPU cycles to allow stressapp to run my calculations.. But what do I know.

All I know is, if I have nvidia drivers I can browse da web while stressapping.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Would we (royal we, Raja Praz) say that Stressapp is strained more with or without software rendering mode? Or maybe closer to the truth it really doesn't matter


I would not be too concerned about this either way.


----------



## Silent Scone

That was my feeling on it but being pretty much alien to the OS thought best to ask


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Would we (royal we, Raja Praz) say that Stressapp is strained more with or without software rendering mode? Or maybe closer to the truth it really doesn't matter


Hello

I have not seen any difference either way. I think this is both due to a minimal graphics load with the default Mint install as well as how good the stress test is at isolating the memory testing from the other subcomponents


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I have not seen any difference either way. I think this is both due to a minimal graphics load with the default Mint install as well as how good the stress test is at isolating the memory testing from the other subcomponents


For comparison, I get around 20-30% graphics load, if I had a stressapp terminal window open, htop running, as well as xsensors open. If the nvidia drivers are loaded, its only 2-5%.


----------



## llantant

I ran hci memtest at Xmp settings 3200 16 16 18 2t.

It passed about 800% when I went to sleep but I woke up and it had crashed sometime during the night.

I take it that it's not stable.

I upped vccio and SA from auto (1.16 In bios) to 1.16 1 notch from 1.15 (showing 1.2 in bios) and am testing again.

Is this correct?

What I also notice is even thought I have ram set to 1.35 in bios it is showing next to it as 1.344. If I up the voltage to 1.36v it shows as 1.36v


----------



## llantant

also is it possible for memtest to crash from not enough vcore?

Also I tried to download Linux mint to use googlestressapp. I downloaded cinnamon the top one in the list but when I boot into it I cannot get online?? My internet won't work. How do I set up a network connection?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> also is it possible for memtest to crash from not enough vcore?
> 
> Also I tried to download Linux mint to use googlestressapp. I downloaded cinnamon the top one in the list but when I boot into it I cannot get online?? My internet won't work. How do I set up a network connection?


it's possible to get an exception code with HCI, but if it's memory related it should happen really before 800% coverage. As mentioned in OP make sure to test general system stability before attempting HCI pass - leave uncore at defaults and either decrease your core multiplier by 10 or increase vcore by 20mv. System Agent and IO voltages should be fine in auto on most CPU at that DRAM frequency.

Use bluescreen viewer to see what exception code occurred:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> it's possible to get an exception code with HCI, but if it's memory related it should happen really before 800% coverage. As mentioned in OP make sure to test general system stability before attempting HCI pass - leave uncore at defaults and either decrease your core multiplier by 10 or increase vcore by 20mv. System Agent and IO voltages should be fine in auto on most CPU at that DRAM frequency.
> 
> Use bluescreen viewer to see what exception code occurred:
> 
> http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html


Brilliant will try when I get back.

I've passed real bench 8 hours and 4 hours of aida64, 30 loops of x264, plus multiple x275 4k encodes on overkill x4 at 4.7 core and 4.4 core at 1.335v. I do however need 1.365v in order to pass the latest version prime small fft.

Anything lower results in rounding error on thread 3 every time.

I left it with the former vcore 1.335 as I figured prime seemed a bit too stressful and hci memtest was one of my final runs.

I'll download the bsod viewer later because windows 10 doesn't pop the code when it reboots









Core multiplier is at 47.

I had Xmp enabled. Am I ok just to input the timings and voltage myself?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Brilliant will try when I get back.
> 
> I've passed real bench 8 hours and 4 hours of aida64, 30 loops of x264, plus multiple x275 4k encodes on overkill x4 at 4.7 core and 4.4 core at 1.335v. I do however need 1.365v in order to pass the latest version prime small fft.
> 
> Anything lower results in rounding error on thread 3 every time.
> 
> I left it with the former vcore 1.335 as I figured prime seemed a bit too stressful and hci memtest was one of my final runs.
> 
> I'll download the bsod viewer later because windows 10 doesn't pop the code when it reboots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Core multiplier is at 47.
> 
> I had Xmp enabled. Am I ok just to input the timings and voltage myself?


I would have thought 8 hours RB to be enough. Make sure you don't have more than one monitoring application open, and if on NVIDIA close Afterburner if using this. When running HCI this can cause a polling collision of sorts which can cause instability


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> i WOULD HAVE
> I would have thought 8 hours RB to be enough. Make sure you don't have more than one monitoring application open, and if on NVIDIA close Afterburner if using this. When running HCI this can cause a polling collision of sorts which can cause instability


Closed steam, precision x etc. I will retry tonight.









Is the setting in bios that's showing 1.344v still ok even though I have 1.35 set. The first skylake I built said ram was at 1.36 even though it was exact same ram and mobo and set at 1.35



It crashed at 6.25! That means it would have been going for 10 Hours. So can I ignore it?


----------



## Silent Scone

No, not ignore. Likely still caused by instability. Retest and see if you can replicate it. This code implies the memory is probably unstable. Do as suggested in my first post regarding reducing multiplier or increasing vcore, come back if you receive the code again at any point.

Too early in my own experience to know whether System Agent might be to blame, but auto ruling has worked perfectly fine on my sample so far.


----------



## seechay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seechay*
> 
> Thanks for the update
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I have issues I'll pick that kit up, but I've manually set the timings to 15-15-15-35-2N @ 1.35v and I haven't had any issues at all. I've been playing around with my OC and I'm stable at 4.6ghz with 1.3v adaptive. I'm working on cranking it up to 4.7 (but so far the temps are 75c, so more likely going to just lower the voltage on my 4.6). As far as the RAM goes, do you think I should attempt to drop my command rate to 1N? I haven't tried it yet, so not sure how it'll behave.


@[email protected] I got my ram issues fixed. I just updated my bios to 802 and enabled XMP. Now I have both dual channel stable at XMP


----------



## llantant

Copied from my post on the overclock thread:

I am still getting issue with my ram on XMP settings, I know my core/cache voltage is fine. What is happening is im failing memtest around the 1000% percent mark. I have ram at 3200 16 18 18 36 2T and 1.35v as it says in XMP.

I do notice that my dram voltage in bios says 1.344 instead of 1.35. Are there any other things I can do to stabilize this ram. I knew i shouldn't have got corsair. Sooner I can find some G Skill in the uk the better.

Im getting these http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16d-16gvk as soon as I can find some. Never liked corsair ram, just had no choice.

Also how the hell do i run linux mint. I flashed to usb and booted in but I have no internet to download the stressapp. Id rather use that over 2 hours before doing another memtest for 8 hours!!!!

Also I have ram dram capability set to 130%


----------



## Silent Scone

The voltage variation is normal, all software polling should be taken with many a granule of salt. Increase DRAM voltage to 1.37v and see if the problem persists.

As for Mint, try typing this into terminal: sudo apt-get install stressapptest


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> No, not ignore. Likely still caused by instability. Retest and see if you can replicate it. This code implies the memory is probably unstable. Do as suggested in my first post regarding reducing multiplier or increasing vcore, come back if you receive the code again at any point.
> 
> Too early in my own experience to know whether System Agent might be to blame, but auto ruling has worked perfectly fine on my sample so far.


Yeah I did kind of expect that. Ok I'll try bump the voltage. Still leave SA and vccio on auto then?

Any idea how I can get Linux mint to boot with network drivers? Do I have to install to HDD or can install to a thumb drive?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Any idea how I can get Linux mint to boot with network drivers? Do I have to install to HDD or can install to a thumb drive?


Hello

Check if a compatible driver is listed in Driver Manager and if so select it. If not you will need to install it.


----------



## llantant

Another thing when I enable Xmp it asks something about Asus settings or Intel. Which do I choose or does it not matter? I was choosing Asus. This time I've manually set timings and upped voltage so fingers crossed lol


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Check if a compatible driver is listed in Driver Manager and if so select it. If not you will need to install it.


Only nvidia drivers in there. How do install it?


----------



## Strife21

Raising vccio and sysagent up to 1.13-1.15v might fix it as well. It helped me stabilize when I as close on stressapptest


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Raising vccio and sysagent up to 1.13-1.15v might fix it as well. It helped me stabilize when I as close on stressapptest


They are currently listed that on auto. If I set to 1.15 they say 1.2 in bios.


----------



## muhd86

so any gigabyte gaming g1 z170 user here who over clocked the cpu and ram ..


----------



## Strife21

I am not talking what they are on auto, I am talking about manually entering the values I mentioned. Mine read higher too when manually entered.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> They are currently listed that on auto. If I set to 1.15 they say 1.2 in bios.


I still would use the manually entered values I mentioned and then test for stability again.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> I still would use the manually entered values I mentioned and then test for stability again.


Will do and report back thanks.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> I still would use the manually entered values I mentioned and then test for stability again.


This worked! 1000% so far on memtest. Thanks dude!









I take it that it's still within safe voltages. I don't like yellow text in bios









I upped to 1.15 on both and figured that seeing as I was upping the voltage is try 1t command rate. Seems to be working!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> This worked! 1000% so far on memtest. Thanks dude!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it that it's still within safe voltages. I don't like yellow text in bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I upped to 1.15 on both and figured that seeing as I was upping the voltage is try 1t command rate. Seems to be working!


Awesome, however don't forget you would have covered roughly 3 to 4000% by the time it crashed previously. I would work on stress app now


----------



## error-id10t

Hey Silent, how come there are 12 pages here but only 4 people with submitted results? Is it because this thread is more about OCing RAM and then running the programs to show it's stable..? Or does this thread exist mainly also because running something like Realbench isn't enough so this is super-duper stability club?

Just trying to figure out beyond what's stated in the OP.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Hey Silent, how come there are 12 pages here but only 4 people with submitted results? Is it because this thread is more about OCing RAM and then running the programs to show it's stable..? Or does this thread exist mainly also because running something like Realbench isn't enough so this is super-duper stability club?
> 
> Just trying to figure out beyond what's stated in the OP.


I think the lack of results are for various reasons which I will cover in a moment, but it's not a super stability club of any nature, it's just first and foremost just an attempt to collaborate results in an effort to see what kind of memory configurations are possible on the platform - the tests to do this are essentially just to show memory stability.

Those that feel that running either of these apps is not necessary to check memory stability when overclocking, that is their prerogative - but these are two of the best methods to rule out memory instability, and it also stops results being posted that are not stable - or rather stable for one particular application or benchmark. For instance one could run several benchmarks and use the machine for two to three weeks, but HCI might throw an error within 500% which categorically means the memory isn't stable.

SKL is still in it's infancy,

1) I don't think stock in various regions has picked up yet

2) Some may not want to install Mint, or run HCI for 2 or 3 hours

3) The above, plus some people may not like to have their dreams shattered of what is stable.

4) People have come as per above for help in getting stability before posting results which is welcome

I'm sure there will be more results posted, these types of threads are for the long haul. Given the topic, it's not quite as riveting as running Hyper PI


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Awesome, however don't forget you would have covered roughly 3 to 4000% by the time it crashed previously. I would work on stress app now


So I have to pass 3000%??

I honestly cannot get stress app to work because no matter what I try when booting Linux off USB drive I cannot get my internet to work in it.

I've used rufus to copy the Linux mint cinnemon ISO to USB drive and booted using uefi and also normal in bios.

It doesn't connect or find my router. I've used some commands in terminal I found online and its picking up my network driver as Intel but says access denied. I've spent hours trying to get it to work. Again I have little to no knowledge of Linux systems.

I go to driver manager and all that's in there is 4 different nvidia drivers and I cannot change to anyone.

Actually I get you now. Because it crashed during the night. I used bsod viewer and I think it crashed approx on 1000% going off the time that it crashed.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> So I have to pass 3000%??
> 
> I honestly cannot get stress app to work because no matter what I try when booting Linux off USB drive I cannot get my internet to work in it.
> 
> I've used rufus to copy the Linux mint cinnemon ISO to USB drive and booted using uefi and also normal in bios.
> 
> It doesn't connect or find my router. I've used some commands in terminal I found online and its picking up my network driver as Intel but says access denied. I've spent hours trying to get it to work. Again I have little to no knowledge of Linux systems.
> 
> I go to driver manager and all that's in there is 4 different nvidia drivers and I cannot change to anyone.
> 
> Actually I get you now. Because it crashed during the night. I used bsod viewer and I think it crashed approx on 1000% going off the time that it crashed.


Yes, crashing through the night doesn't help.

I will be doing more stressapp on Z170 as of this evening so I will let you know.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, crashing through the night doesn't help.
> 
> I will be doing more stressapp on Z170 as of this evening so I will let you know.


Ok thanks.

So is 1200% considered a pass?

Surely anyone's memtest may fail depending how long it's left to run. Like all the posts in here could have failed at 1500, 2000, 3000 etc.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ok thanks.
> 
> So is 1200% considered a pass?
> 
> Surely anyone's memtest may fail depending how long it's left to run. Like all the posts in here could have failed at 1500, 2000, 3000 etc.


Yes, but there are obviously limits to how far you can push these things sensibly. It could potentially fall over at 10,000% It is a matter of perspective, generally speaking 1500% you can consider yourself to likely be trouble free or 1 to 2 hours of Google Stressapp.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, but there are obviously limits to how far you can push these things sensibly. It could potentially fall over at 10,000% It is a matter of perspective, generally speaking 1500% you can consider yourself to likely be trouble free or 1 to 2 hours of Google Stressapp.


Ok 1500 is the mark then. Because it said 1000 to 1500 I stopped it at like 1200.

I'll try install Linux on one of my Samsung 840 ssds when my new nvme drive turns up.

Id rather do the stress app it's just I can't lol.

By the way I've also run 3 hours of prime 95 28.7 large ffts 2048 to 4096 at 90% ram which is supposed to be good for ram and cache OCs.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ok 1500 is the mark then. Because it said 1000 to 1500 I stopped it at like 1200.
> 
> I'll try install Linux on one of my Samsung 840 ssds when my new nvme drive turns up.
> 
> Id rather do the stress app it's just I can't lol.
> 
> By the way I've also run 3 hours of prime 95 28.7 large ffts 2048 to 4096 at 90% ram which is supposed to be good for ram and cache OCs.


That will hit the cache hard, but Prime stability has no bearing on stability on this platform really, stick to other tests available


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That will hit the cache hard, but Prime stability has no bearing on stability on this platform really, stick to other tests available


No bearing on stability on skylake?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> No bearing on stability on skylake?


Prime does not stress the SKL architecture in a way that gives a reasonable indication of stability, it only proves that the system is stable running Prime. You can be Prime stable for hours and fail in RealBench within minutes.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Prime does not stress the SKL architecture in a way that gives a reasonable indication of stability, it only proves that the system is stable running Prime. You can be Prime stable for hours and fail in RealBench within minutes.


I think this has changed on the later uCode versions for the platform - may be more difficult to pass prime now. Up to the user what they prefer to run tho.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I think this has changed on the later uCode versions for the platform - may be more difficult to pass prime now. Up to the user what they prefer to run tho.


Ah fair enough. Not that I would use it regardless


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I think this has changed on the later uCode versions for the platform - may be more difficult to pass prime now. Up to the user what they prefer to run tho.


All I find with prime and especially some of the small ffts is it asks for a higher vid. I can run the large ffts which are asking for 1.37v no problem for long periods. When it switches to 15k fft length vid changes to 1.389 and one of my threads (thread 3 every time). If I up vcore from 1.37 to 1.38 then i pass the 15k test.
All this is after a real bench 8 hour run at 1.344v.

Question is. Is it really worth increasing voltage just to pass prime 15k for 24/7 operation.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> This worked! 1000% so far on memtest. Thanks dude!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it that it's still within safe voltages. I don't like yellow text in bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I upped to 1.15 on both and figured that seeing as I was upping the voltage is try 1t command rate. Seems to be working!


From what I read up too 1.20v vccio and 1.25v sys agent entered manually should be okay. Although I don't think you need that much.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> All I find with prime and especially some of the small ffts is it asks for a higher vid. I can run the large ffts which are asking for 1.37v no problem for long periods. When it switches to 15k fft length vid changes to 1.389 and one of my threads (thread 3 every time). If I up vcore from 1.37 to 1.38 then i pass the 15k test.
> All this is after a real bench 8 hour run at 1.344v.
> 
> Question is. Is it really worth increasing voltage just to pass prime 15k for 24/7 operation.


That's entirely down to the user. I'm very much in the mindset that because almost nothing else hammers these extensions like Prime does then there is little need to secure stability for the sake of running Prime.


----------



## llantant

Corsair Vengeance 16gb (2x8gb) 16-18-18-36 1T 1.35v Vccio: 1.15v SA: 1.15v 4600mhz Cache 4700mhz Core

Ill post a stressapp as soon as I figure out how to


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks, nice one









What board?


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks, nice one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What board?


Oops. Forgot to include that. Maximus viii hero


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks


----------



## llantant

Turns out it was not enough vcore actually not vccio and SA. I had a couple issues in prime when it was posting 1.385 VID. I found that a thread would go down. I it up one notch on vcore and it would pass no problem. Well I hadnt memtested ram since I done that and I flashed to bios 902 last night so thought I would try memtest at Auto VCCIO and SA using the new vcore and It passed 1600%. I noticed in HWmon that memtest also posted 1.385 VID at some point during the test and I think that could have been why it failed. Either that or this new bios.

Got there in the end hey!


----------



## Silent Scone

Glad you got it sorted, and this was my first suggestion to you


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Glad you got it sorted, and this was my first suggestion to you


Hehe yeah I know. I get carried away with stuff sometimes


----------



## FiShBuRn

FiShBuRn--i7-6700K @4.6/4.6---3200Mhz-C15-16-16-35-1T----1.35v---SA Auto & IO Auto---HCI 1800%


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice work


----------



## llantant

Is there anything I can do to get Linux mint to connect to the internet. Im using a wired connection but I have tried booting from USB, 3 different Linux mint versions, Installing to a HDD.

What exactly do you do to get it working? I only want to use it to try stressapp.

Any ideas?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Is there anything I can do to get Linux mint to connect to the internet. Im using a wired connection but I have tried booting from USB, 3 different Linux mint versions, Installing to a HDD.
> 
> What exactly do you do to get it working? I only want to use it to try stressapp.
> 
> Any ideas?


Hello

Download the stress app on a different system and install it manually or pick up a cheap USB wireless dongle.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Download the stress app on a different system and install it manually or pick up a cheap USB wireless dongle.


Well I didnt think to use a wireless dongle. I have one handy. Cheers dude.







Ill report back.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Well I didnt think to use a wireless dongle. I have one handy. Cheers dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ill report back.


Hello

Drivers are built-in for most of the cheaper USB wireless dongles. A minute or so after connecting it you should be able to choose it from the lower right hand corner of the taskbar.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Drivers are built-in for most of the cheaper USB wireless dongles. A minute or so after connecting it you should be able to choose it from the lower right hand corner of the taskbar.


Used my iPhone and it connected !! Your a legend.

Am I ok running stressapp from USB drive boot? I've only got 13gb free of 16.

What command do I run? Stressapp -M ?

I tried stressapp -W -s 3600 as it said in op but it's targeting 14987 and failed.

Guess I have to boot from hdd?

Or is it ok to run stressapp -M 12228 -W -s 3600? If not I guess I'll have to reconnect my sata drive with Linux on.


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That will hit the cache hard, but Prime stability has no bearing on stability on this platform really, stick to other tests available


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> No bearing on stability on skylake?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I think this has changed on the later uCode versions for the platform - may be more difficult to pass prime now. Up to the user what they prefer to run tho.


I definitely found that Prime would crash my computer in under an hour with Blend or large FTT's, when Realbbench would pass for 8 at the same settings.

Needed a higher VCCIO voltage due to my ram's 1.35v to get it completely stable for 8 hours.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> I definitely found that Prime would crash my computer in under an hour with Blend or large FTT's, when Realbbench would pass for 8 at the same settings.
> 
> Needed a higher VCCIO voltage due to my ram's 1.35v to get it completely stable for 8 hours.


I agree. Prime is great. I really want to tweak ram timings etc though and would prefer to do that outside of Windows. Hence why I want to try stressapp to get my ram right.


----------



## llantant

During the test it said "pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (2400 seconds remaining)

Then

Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike

Just part of the test?


----------



## Deders

Never seen that, is that prime?


----------



## llantant

Nope. Stressapp test in Linux


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> I tried stressapp -W -s 3600 as it said in op but it's targeting 14987 and failed.
> .


Hello

That set of command line switches should be fine. The test will default to testing approximately 93% of the ram for one hour.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> During the test it said "pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (2400 seconds remaining)
> 
> Then
> 
> Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike
> 
> Just part of the test?


Yes. During that time the data patterns used create current spikes as part of the stability test.


----------



## llantant

Brilliant thanks. I just installed it on a 500gb hdd I had laying around. All working great. Thanks for your help. Appreciate it.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Brilliant thanks. I just installed it on a 500gb hdd I had laying around. All working great. Thanks for your help. Appreciate it.


Hello

You're welcome.


----------



## llantant

Installed on my additional 500gb HDD. Working fine but even though when I custom formatted it and set up Swap file, Home patition, Boot partition and Root partition. I also chose boot preloader to be on that drive, it still seemed to install something to my main NVME drive?

Now in BIOS I have Windows Boot Manager (Samsung NVME Drive) and ubuntu (Samsung NVME Drive).

Everything works fine but I would just like to know is this normal? Ive never dual booted OS's before.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Installed on my additional 500gb HDD. Working fine but even though when I custom formatted it and set up Swap file, Home patition, Boot partition and Root partition. I also chose boot preloader to be on that drive, it still seemed to install something to my main NVME drive?
> 
> Now in BIOS I have Windows Boot Manager (Samsung NVME Drive) and ubuntu (Samsung NVME Drive).
> 
> Everything works fine but I would just like to know is this normal? Ive never dual booted OS's before.


Hello

I install secondary operating systems with no other drives connected except the drive I'm installing to. I either connect the drive as needed or boot from it if already connected along with the main drive by selecting it during POST using the F8 boot menu.


----------



## llantant

Yeah I usually do aswell. Was hoping I could get away with it though as my nvme drive is under one of my gpus lol


----------



## Praz

Maximus VIII Extreme - Corsair Vengeance LPX (X99) 2800 4x4GB. XMP 1 profile.





Edit:
Praz--i5 6600K @4.7/4.5---2800MHz-C16-18-18-36-2T----1.385v---SA Auto---IO Auto---Stressapptest----2 Hour---HCI 1250%


----------



## llantant

Does this look ok?




CPU 4.7 Cache 4.6
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 3466mhz 18/19/19/38 2t @ 1.4v (1.15 Vccio and SA)

Stresstestapp 1 Hour. Will tweak and do 2 hours tomorrow.

Edit**

llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.6---3466Mhz-C18-19-19-38-2T----1.4v---SA 1.15v

VCCIO 1.15V---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks Praz









Llantant yes that is fine RE stressapp. Will add results tomorrow. 47/46 3466 is a very quick well balanced system. See if you can get 1T and lower CAS to 17


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks Praz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Llantant yes that is fine RE stressapp. Will add results tomorrow. 47/46 3466 is a very quick well balanced system. See if you can get 1T and lower CAS to 17


Hello

Yeah, should definitely aim for 1N. I'll add the needed details to my previous post in a bit.


----------



## Silent Scone

3866 seems to be far too easy with SKL, I would like to attempt 4000 2T or even 1T by the weekend with the kit I have here although may require more SA than is likely recommended (assuming the kit is even capable of 4000 without increasing latency too far)


----------



## Praz

Hello

Post updated with settings info.


----------



## llantant

Thanks.

It doesn't seem to like 1T and I don't want to push past 1.4 dram voltage.

Would it be better to lower frequency to get it stable with 1t?

Currently I have lower cas to 17 but also working on lowering voltage.

1.37v dram, 1.1 vccio and 1.15 SA

I tried switching to 1t with the higher voltage but I would error within 30 seconds of stressapp. I was on 1.4, 1.15 1.15.

Also another note if I switch to auto vccio and SA it puts my voltage on 1.25 and 1.3!!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> It doesn't seem to like 1T and I don't want to push past 1.4 dram voltage.
> 
> Would it be better to lower frequency to get it stable with 1t?
> 
> Currently I have lower cas to 17 but also working on lowering voltage.
> 
> 1.37v dram, 1.1 vccio and 1.15 SA
> 
> I tried switching to 1t with the higher voltage but I would error within 30 seconds of stressapp. I was on 1.4, 1.15 1.15.
> 
> *Also another note if I switch to auto vccio and SA it puts my voltage on 1.25 and 1.3!!!*!


Yes this is fine, 3466 will be ruling for worst case. 3866 is over 1.3v on both IO and SA on the Deluxe. Anything below 1.35v should be ok for long term use with adequate cooling. If you're happy where you are stay with that, or try for 1T at lower frequencies. 1T is a lot harder on the IMC


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes this is fine, 3466 will be ruling for worst case. 3866 is over 1.3v on both IO and SA on the Deluxe. Anything below 1.35v should be ok for long term use with adequate cooling. If you're happy where you are stay with that, or try for 1T at lower frequencies. 1T is a lot harder on the IMC


Really appreciate all the help!

I may try upping vccio and SA then first and see what comes of it.

I'll never be truely happy, I love tinkering too much!!

I'll do some benching at the lower freq with 1t compared to higher freq 2t. 1.4v seems high for ddr4 24/7 hence why I don't want to go higher.

Also, I changed cas to 17 from 18. My Maxxmem bench increased but superpi was 3 seconds slower? Just a fluke? I'll do some more testing later.


----------



## Silent Scone

Test stability as well, if it's slower may be a lot of correction going on. I've not needed to take IO or SA voltages out of auto just yet for anything up to 3866. That's not to say some users will have found the same, but these settings work well for me when knowing the memory is capable


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Test stability as well, if it's slower may be a lot of correction going on. I've not needed to take IO or SA voltages out of auto just yet for anything up to 3866. That's not to say some users will have found the same, but these settings work well for me when knowing the memory is capable


Yeah I figure I could go with auto it's just that the voltages seemed high considering it passed 1 hour stressapp at a decent amount below.

I figured it could be instability with the lower score. I'll restest and report back.


----------



## llantant

Well..

after some testing I can do 3333mhz 16/18/18/36 2T which is approx the same as 3466 18/19/19/2T at same voltages.

I cannot do 1T no matter what I do at those speeds.

I think I could get 17/19/19 2T stable but CAS 16 wont even post.

I think ill stick with 3466mhz and will post 2 hour stressapp soon. Its yielding some decent gains in maxxmem and aida over my 3200mhz 16/18/18 1T

Currently have Dram voltage on 1.39v, Is there any long term problems if I run my RAM at this voltage?


----------



## Silent Scone

Silent Scone--i5 [email protected]/4.2---3866MHz-C18-20-20-40-2T----1.4v---SA 1.35v---IO Auto---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Well..
> 
> after some testing I can do 3333mhz 16/18/18/36 2T which is approx the same as 3466 18/19/19/2T at same voltages.
> 
> I cannot do 1T no matter what I do at those speeds.
> 
> I think I could get 17/19/19 2T stable but CAS 16 wont even post.
> 
> I think ill stick with 3466mhz and will post 2 hour stressapp soon. Its yielding some decent gains in maxxmem and aida over my 3200mhz 16/18/18 1T
> 
> Currently have Dram voltage on 1.39v, Is there any long term problems if I run my RAM at this voltage?


Try increasing the System Agent


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Try increasing the System Agent


I've tried up to 1.3.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> I've tried up to 1.3.


3466+ may like a little more as I've discovered. Not entirely certain on what is deemed a reasonable max on this voltage though so maybe wait for Raja or Praz to comment on that


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 3466+ may like a little more as I've discovered. Not entirely certain on what is deemed a reasonable max on this voltage though so maybe wait for Raja or Praz to comment on that


I can run 2t no problem with 1.4 dram. I have noticed that prime custom test 2048 to 4096 90 ram popped error very quickly despite me passing 1 hour of stressapp. I upped vccio and SA to 1.20 and 1.25 and it rectified it.

If I *could* get 1t stable at 1.35 SA then would it be worth the jump in voltage from 1 to 2 t ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> I can run 2t no problem with 1.4 dram. I have noticed that prime custom test 2048 to 4096 90 ram popped error very quickly despite me passing 1 hour of stressapp. I upped vccio and SA to 1.20 and 1.25 and it rectified it.
> 
> If I *could* get 1t stable at 1.35 SA then would it be worth the jump in voltage from 1 to 2 t ?


More likely to be cache RE Prime. I would try it firstly. If nothing else is working just stick to what you can do, or loosen some of the secondary timings.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> More likely to be cache RE Prime. I would try it firstly. If nothing else is working just stick to what you can do, or loosen some of the secondary timings.


I'll try bumping CPU Volts instead then a little. I was perfectly prime stable running at 3200mhz. I suppose the increase in ram could have thrown that out now.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> I'll try bumping CPU Volts instead then a little. I was perfectly prime stable running at 3200mhz. I suppose the increase in ram could have thrown that out now.


If stable in stress app with 3200 settings but Prime is failing then by default I would be looking at cache and core, yes. I wouldn't focus too much on Prime stability personally but people will do anyway


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If stable in stress app with 3200 settings but Prime is failing then by default I would be looking at cache and core, yes. I wouldn't focus too much on Prime stability personally but people will do anyway


Stable at 3466 in stressapp but prime failed.

Stable at 3200 in both stressapp and prime.

I tried increasing core cache volt and lowered SA and vccio and it went unstable again.

So put sa and vccio back up to 1.20 and 1.25 and lowered my core back to what I knew was stable and it passed again.

And by me saying prime I mean the ram and chipset test that's 2048 to 4096 30mins per test 90% ram


----------



## Silent Scone

*Shrug*. Do you do anything on the machine that pulls those kinds of loads? Try with cache at defaults.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> *Shrug*. Do you do anything on the machine that pulls those kinds of loads? Try with cache at defaults.


Nah I do not.

I just always have done ram/chipset test at the end when I'm over locking mem. Granted that was on sandy and I'm a bit behind the time ha!

I just thought it was something worth point out.

I will try with default cache but I am 100% stable at 3200. It's testing 3466 that it's failing but as I said passed stressapp.


----------



## llantant

Lowered cache to stock. Same issue. Not stable with vccio and SA voltage on 1.15 and 1.2.

Switch vccio and SA voltage to auto which gives me 1.25 and 1.3 and put my cache back up to 4600 and no errors in prime custom test.

Also things feel snappier so I was def undervolting my vccio and SA and as you said originally it's best left on auto. Just strange that it passed an hour of stressapp.

The only thing tho is I'm unsure I want to run 1.25 1.3 24/7


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Just strange that it passed an hour of stressapp.


Hello

Nothing strange at all. The Google memory test isolates the memory testing form the rest of the system just as it is designed to do.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Nothing strange at all. The Google memory test isolates the memory testing form the rest of the system just as it is designed to do.


How does it require more SA and vccio in order to not get rounding errors in prime ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> How does it require more SA and vccio in order to not get rounding errors in prime ?


Because As Praz has said, SAT is very good at isolating memory. Other tests that have heavier interaction with other components are more likely to topple other aspects of the overclock if unstable. Try running Prime with your 3466 settings with the core and uncore at stock.

I would be interested to know if this still fails. I've yet to find anything that shows memory instability after passing one or two hours of SAT


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Because As Praz has said, SAT is very good at isolating memory. Other tests that have heavier interaction with other components are more likely to topple other aspects of the overclock if unstable. Try running Prime with your 3466 settings with the core and uncore at stock.
> 
> I would be interested to know if this still fails. I've yet to find anything that shows memory instability after passing one or two hours of SAT


Will do it later and report back thanks,

By the would an increase in ram speed need a bump core voltage to remain stable. Like if I'm stable at 4700 3200 at 1.37v then I would technically need 1.4v core I run the ram at 3466?

If I remember rightly on my sandy I needed a voltage bump on CPU to go from 1600 to 2133 (along with vccio ofc).


----------



## Silent Scone

You might need a small bump yes depending on the margin of stability


----------



## Silent Scone

Silent Scone--i5 [email protected]/4.2---3466MHz-C16-18-18-36-1T----1.4v---SA Auto---IO Auto---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## llantant

Reverted Core and Cache to default (Auto with Auto voltages)

Crashed within 30 sec in prime Custom test 2048 to 4096 12gb RAM at the exact settings that I passed stressapp earlier. (Ram 1.4 Vccio 1.15 SA 1.20)


----------



## Silent Scone

You might need to give the cache especially a little bump when running those memory frequencies, even at stock.

Give it here...lol

Leave IO and SA in auto


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You might need to give the cache especially a little bump when running those memory frequencies, even at stock.
> 
> Give it here...lol
> 
> Leave IO and SA in auto


Haha!

The above was my mistake. I left voltage on adaptive and didnt change it back to Auto. It seems to be ok now I have changed back to auto







. Just passed the 3M test that it just failed on.

Ill move IO and SA auto and work my OC up from stock.

Oh and while were at at it. Here is my 2 hour stressapp test for 4.7/4.6 -- 3200mhz 16-18-18-36-1T.


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks, will add shortly


----------



## llantant

Switching up to 1t on the ram at 3200 worked out me needing to increase core voltage by 0.1.

That as you guys already said was where I was going wrong with 3466mhz.

It obv needed a decent bump or reduce my OC.

I'm happy with 4.7/4.6 so I don't think I'll sacrifice the additional voltage or reduce my core/cache to gain 266mhz.

I'll leave at 3200 16-18-18-1t and my core voltage at 1.38v (1.396) temps are mid 70s prime so I'm happy with that.









Thanks both for your help. I'll rep when I'm on my pc.


----------



## Silent Scone




----------



## Praz

Maximus VIII Extreme - Corsair Vengeance LPX (X99) 2800 4x4GB. XMP 2 profile 1.30V.

Praz--i5 6600K @4.7/4.5---3000MHz-C16-18-18-36-2T----1.385v---SA Auto---IO Auto---Stressapptest----2 Hour---HCI 760%


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks Praz.

HCI coverage with 4 instances is nothing short of painful


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks Praz.
> 
> HCI coverage with 4 instances is nothing short of painful


Hello

Yeah, it's fast wearing on my patience.


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks Praz.
> 
> HCI coverage with 4 instances is nothing short of painful


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Yeah, it's fast wearing on my patience.


You should try with 8


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> You should try with 8


Hello

I'm pretty sure the users discussing this are aware of the proper procedures to be used when running HCI. 8 instances for a 6600K is not a proper configuration.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> You should try with 8


8 instances on a 6600k is fairly counter productive, on larger chips having more instances normally helps matters as it's the amount of memory per instance being covered which is like watching paint dry


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I'm pretty sure the users discussing this are aware of the proper procedures to be used when running HCI. 8 instances for a 6600K is not a proper configuration.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 8 instances on a 6600k is fairly counter productive, on larger chips having more instances normally helps matters as it's the amount of memory per instance being covered which is like watching paint dry


It was a joke, 8 instances is double the hassle.


----------



## Silent Scone

In that case try 16 - 30


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> In that case try 16 - 30


One of the downsides of having 2 octa-cores.


----------



## Silent Scone

Will add this to the OP, but to bring up system info within Mint Terminal, type: *sudo dmidecode type 17* into terminal. (Thanks to Praz for the info)


----------



## Praz

Maximus VIII Extreme - G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x8GB XMP settings.

Praz--i5 6600K @4.7/4.5---3200MHz-C16-16-16-36-2T----1.35v---SA Auto---IO Auto---Stressapptest----2 Hour---HCI 1200%


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Maximus VIII Extreme - G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x8GB XMP settings.
> 
> Praz--i5 6600K @4.7/4.5---3200MHz-C16-16-16-36-2T----1.395v---SA Auto---IO Auto---Stressapptest----2 Hour---HCI 1200%


Is it safe to run at 1.395v?

I got some rip jaw 4 2x8gb 15-15-15-35 2T that I run at 1.36v with 1.15 viccio and 1.15 sys agent. Also need to select asus tweak mode1 but it's stable for 3h of stressapptest on a 6600k running at 4.6/4.5. Wonder if I should mess with upping dram voltage that much 1.38v is where I stopped but saw no improvement.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Is it safe to run at 1.395v?


Hello

1.395V is the CPU voltage. The memory voltage is set to 1.35V per the XMP profile. Original post corrected for voltage.


----------



## Strife21

Duh my bad. Sorry about that.


----------



## Silent Scone

1.395v should be fine for DRAM also, I'm not aware of any confirmed reports of degradation within the year. Intel spec 1.5v as the maximum viable for XMP certification. Personally as a rule anything above 1.45v I would deem excessive, as there are plenty of kits that will do respectable speeds and latency below this.


----------



## llantant

Considering picking up a set of these

http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3400c16d-16gtz

What do you guys think?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Considering picking up a set of these
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3400c16d-16gtz
> 
> What do you guys think?


What should we think?







I think they're 3400C16









Should be easy to tune in, if you want faster memory go for it.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What should we think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're 3400C16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should be easy to tune in, if you want faster memory go for it.


They do look nice aswell a so that's a plus









I have to do another skylake build within the next few weeks so I think I'll get those and switch them with my Corsair


----------



## Praz

Maximus VIII Extreme - G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x8GB.

Praz--i5 6600K @4.62/4.62---3300MHz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.38v---SA Auto---IO Auto---Stressapptest----2 Hour---HCI 1000%


----------



## Silent Scone




----------



## KaRtA82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


Hey Silent Scone, can you post the XMP timings from AIDA for your 3866 kit? I'd like to try the settings on my 3466 bin and see if it will pass.

Just need the timings as a base to get a boot going. Even a shot using the Asrock Timing Configurator at the speed will help me greatly.

Auto on my board is a fail at that speed, regardless of volts.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRtA82*
> 
> Hey Silent Scone, can you post the XMP timings from AIDA for your 3866 kit? I'd like to try the settings on my 3466 bin and see if it will pass.
> 
> Just need the timings as a base to get a boot going. Even a shot using the Asrock Timing Configurator at the speed will help me greatly.
> 
> Auto on my board is a fail at that speed, regardless of volts.


Extreme Memory Profile v2.0:
Profile Name Enthusiast (Certified)
Memory Speed DDR4-3900 (1950 MHz)
Voltage 1.35 V
Recommended DIMMs Per Channel 1
@ 1934 MHz 19-20-20-40 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 60-503-310-213-14-14-59 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
@ 1934 MHz 18-20-20-40 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 60-503-310-213-14-14-59 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
@ 1826 MHz 17-19-19-38 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 57-475-293-201-13-13-55 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
@ 1719 MHz 16-18-18-36 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 54-448-276-190-13-13-52 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
@ 1611 MHz 15-17-17-34 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 50-420-258-178-12-12-49 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)

Might be more realistic to aim for 3700. CAS19 is a little too loose to bother with those speeds IMO. I need 1.35v System Agent to successfully run the CAS 18 profile on my sample. All lower frequencies work fine on auto rules


----------



## KaRtA82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Extreme Memory Profile v2.0:
> Profile Name Enthusiast (Certified)
> Memory Speed DDR4-3900 (1950 MHz)
> Voltage 1.35 V
> Recommended DIMMs Per Channel 1
> @ 1934 MHz 19-20-20-40 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 60-503-310-213-14-14-59 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
> @ 1934 MHz 18-20-20-40 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 60-503-310-213-14-14-59 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
> @ 1826 MHz 17-19-19-38 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 57-475-293-201-13-13-55 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
> @ 1719 MHz 16-18-18-36 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 54-448-276-190-13-13-52 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
> @ 1611 MHz 15-17-17-34 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 50-420-258-178-12-12-49 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
> 
> Might be more realistic to aim for 3700. CAS19 is a little too loose to bother with those speeds IMO. I need 1.35v System Agent to successfully run the CAS 18 profile on my sample. All lower frequencies work fine on auto rules


My IMC seems not so strong too, will do 3600C14 1.3/1.3v for benching, but struggles with higher speeds. Will give them a go and see what happens. Are all of those timings 1.35v or up to 1.4v?

+1 rep to you. Great thread, hope to join when I have time to burn.


----------



## Silent Scone

On this kit I actually needed 1.39v DRAM voltage to get XMP stable in Google Stress App, wouldn't like to comment on if other sets of this kit would require the same. Also don't forget feeding System Agent may not be the issue and you're assuming that kit is capable of those speeds - also I've no idea if the System Agent will scale well for people past 1.35v on most CPU


----------



## KaRtA82

Can u get the timing configurator screen too. Not having much success.

Thanks.


----------



## Silent Scone

Not right now, no. auto ruling should be fine or anything other than primary, if you're having to loosen any it's probably not worth shooting for 3866.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRtA82*
> 
> Can u get the timing configurator screen too. Not having much success.
> 
> Thanks.




As you can see, rather deflated at these speeds when left in auto. Any further increase likely isn't worth the offset if looking for stability


----------



## Silent Scone

Silent Scone-i5 6600K @4.6/4.3---3466MHz-C16-18-18-36-1T----1.4v---SA Auto---IO Auto---HCI 1000%


----------



## Strife21

I have 2x8gb 3000mhz of the rip jaw 4. Running at the rated 15-15-15-35 timings but at 2t with 1.36v. Was wondering if it would be okay to go up to 1.4v on the memory to try and get to 1T. Tried 1.38 but think it needs a little more juice. Wasn't sure if 1.4 would be too much tho.

Stress app test was fine for 4 hours on stock vccio and sysagent. But I needed to bump to 1.20vccio and 1.15 sys agent to get 12hr stable in prime 95.


----------



## Asus11

how much cooler does skylake run compared to i7 4790k?

people say it runs cooler but on the flip side it seems like it needs more volts to be overclocked than a i7 4790k so I guess its like evens out the temps & doesn't run cooler when overclocked?

just wanted some opinions


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> I have 2x8gb 3000mhz of the rip jaw 4. Running at the rated 15-15-15-35 timings but at 2t with 1.36v. Was wondering if it would be okay to go up to 1.4v on the memory to try and get to 1T. Tried 1.38 but think it needs a little more juice. Wasn't sure if 1.4 would be too much tho.
> 
> Stress app test was fine for 4 hours on stock vccio and sysagent. But I needed to bump to 1.20vccio and 1.15 sys agent to get 12hr stable in prime 95.


1.4v DRAM should be no issue. Certain kits are even being binned at this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> how much cooler does skylake run compared to i7 4790k?
> 
> people say it runs cooler but on the flip side it seems like it needs more volts to be overclocked than a i7 4790k so I guess its like evens out the temps & doesn't run cooler when overclocked?
> 
> just wanted some opinions


Not really the thread for that type of question, not really a great upgrade path from Devils unless you are really hardcore in terms of wanting the latest.


----------



## Jpmboy

two recent results:

kit is GS Trident 3200c16 4x4G (early issue)
jpmboy -- ASUS Max VIII Extreme--- 6600K @ 4.6/4.6---

3466 c16-18-18-42-1T --- VDIMM 1.425V -- VSA -- 1.212V---VCCIO --- 1.2125V


3600 c18-20-20-48-1T --- vDIMM 1.49V --- VSA --- 1.25V --- VCCIO -- 1.225V
(new mint desktop







)


gotta run HCI memtest... back next year.









Question: are the memory copy measures in GSAT a meaningful measure?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> two recent results:
> 
> kit is GS Trident 3200c16 4x4G (early issue)
> jpmboy -- ASUS Max VIII Extreme--- 6600K @ 4.6/4.6---
> 
> 3466 c16-18-18-42-1T --- VDIMM 1.425V -- VSA -- 1.212V---VCCIO --- 1.2125V
> 
> 
> 3600 c18-20-20-48-1T --- vDIMM 1.49V --- VSA --- 1.25V --- VCCIO -- 1.225V
> (new mint desktop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> gotta run HCI memtest... back next year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question: are the memory copy measures in GSAT a meaningful measure?


Nice work, will get these added when I'm home









I think it's likely meaningful to how Stress App is threaded and writes, but not in any real world sense. It writes some of them to disk from memory so speeds may be limited there. I don't think it's really something worth taking note of


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice work, will get these added when I'm home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's likely meaningful to how Stress App is threaded and writes, but not in any real world sense. It writes some of them to disk from memory so speeds may be limited there. I don't think it's really something worth taking note of


eh, was hopeful it could clue me in as to whether the settings were beneficial or not, before switching back to W10.
BTW - both of those failed HCI memtest at ~ 120%,








My original timings are still good tho (on GSAT and HCI).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> eh, was hopeful it could clue me in as to whether the settings were beneficial or not, before switching back to W10.
> BTW - both of those failed HCI memtest at ~ 120%,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My original timings are still good tho (on GSAT and HCI).


Weird. You seem to get this a lot, I've never experienced that so far (touch wood).


----------



## Jpmboy

yeah - for 3466. 16-18-36-1t is 1H GSAT good, fails HCI, 16-18-44-1T passes. I don't get it.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - for 3466. 16-18-36-1t is 1H GSAT good, fails HCI, 16-18-44-1T passes. I don't get it.


I'll get a better idea maybe once trying higher density, definitely haven't had that problem with 8GB


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy -- 6600K -- 4.6/4,6 --- 3600c18-20-20-48-1T 1.49V (oops, 1.5 in HCI) VSA-1.225. 1h GSAT, 120% HCI (







)


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice work with GSAT and 3600 1T, don't imagine that's too easy (not tried over 3466 with 8GB outside of aiming for 3866 1T with no joy)


----------



## llantant

I have some http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c17d-16gtz

16gb G Skill TridentZ 3600mhz CL17 turning up tomorrow hopefully. WIll post some results when im up and going.

Cant wait to get out of my Corsair's and into some G skill!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Let us know how you get on


----------



## llantant

Done a 3600mhz 18/18/18/38/2T for 2 hours with stressapptest. Passed no problems.

CPU 4.6 ghz - 4.1Ghz Cache

I saved the screenshot to my storage drive but somehow I cannot open it in windows









Anyway, you'll have to take my word from it and will post when I retest with 1T or push timings


----------



## llantant

Nevermind I managed to do it with Linux









llantant--i76700K @4.6/4.1---3600Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.35v---SA Auto (1.288v ) ---Stressapptest----2 Hours

Will report back with my next go.


----------



## llantant

It doesn't like running at the above settings with 1t instead of two. Failed in less than 10 seconds.

Any recommendations where to tweak from here?

****edit

Actually, just noticed I had my cache at 4.4 for some reason.

Set it back to stock and and ram on 1t and it seems to be passing ?.



Yep passes fine with 1t on stock cache. 4.1ghz.


----------



## Silent Scone

1t above 3466 can become difficult in tandem with high cache frequency


----------



## MR-e

Hey Scone, kind of an off topic question, but hopefully it somewhat applies. Would I be okay with taking a 4x4gb kit from my x99 system and popping it into skylake? Or is it better to get z170 kits instead? My current corsairs are early hynix kits going 3200mhz from what I remember.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Hey Scone, kind of an off topic question, but hopefully it somewhat applies. Would I be okay with taking a 4x4gb kit from my x99 system and popping it into skylake? Or is it better to get z170 kits instead? My current corsairs are early hynix kits going 3200mhz from what I remember.


Not really my place to recommend using kits binned for different platforms but it shouldn't be an issue. I've run two x99 kits and very little tuning needed. The kit is running two channels down, just keep in mind a little more DRAM voltage may be needed depending on the level of guardband. For example, my Hynix 3000c15 4x4gb x99 kit needed 1.37v for 1T over 1.35v on x99. Beyond that, can always ask if you experience any problems.


----------



## MR-e

Cool beans, thanks! Very tempted to offload my x99m-ws and 5820k for a 6700k


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Cool beans, thanks! Very tempted to offload my x99m-ws and 5820k for a 6700k


Honestly depends on your workload, if you're losing money doing so I really wouldn't bother.


----------



## MR-e

There's no work once I'm off the clock. The puter is strictly for gaming purposes only. I've always bought i5's in the past for gaming and decided this time I wanted to try the enthusiast grade







The honeymoon period is now over and the OC it is starting to bug me. Also, I just ordered a 950 Pro but it's stuck on the gimped m.2 port on the Asus X99M-WS


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> There's no work once I'm off the clock. The puter is strictly for gaming purposes only. I've always bought i5's in the past for gaming and decided this time I wanted to try the enthusiast grade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The honeymoon period is now over and the OC it is starting to bug me. Also, I just ordered a 950 Pro but it's stuck on the gimped m.2 port on the Asus X99M-WS


What's starting to bug you?


----------



## MR-e

I meant to say OC itch* nothing bugging me, I have my 24/7 gaming OC dialed in completely with the 5820K so I want to tinker with something new. call me fickle, hehe


----------



## Silent Scone

Ah, now that makes sense


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy -- [email protected] -- ASUS M8E mobo -- 2x4GB Trident Z 4000c19 kit @ 3866c17 --- 1,470V. [email protected], [email protected]
>5000% HCI


(eh, I just let it run overnight







... and overslept. Needed the detox)


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice one


----------



## Menthol

Scone,
Great thread you got going on here
I seen this article on Gskill Tirdent Z memory kit, they mention the Samsung E-die, it's a single 4 stick kit so I started messing around some, I still haven't managed a 1T at 3866 with 4 sticks and haven't done any testing with just 2 sticks but I did try several of these settings with success, not sure I am ever going to run any stability testing to contribute. takes to much time


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Scone,
> Great thread you got going on here
> I seen this article on Gskill Tirdent Z memory kit, they mention the Samsung E-die, it's a single 4 stick kit so I started messing around some, I still haven't managed a 1T at 3866 with 4 sticks and haven't done any testing with just 2 sticks but I did try several of these settings with success, not sure I am ever going to run any stability testing to contribute. takes to much time


Nice! what VSA did you have to set for 4000?
I'm looking at 1.275V with my 6700K, and only 1.225V with my 6300.








http://valid.x86.fr/1ueaup


----------



## Menthol

I set 1.275, but I just randomly set that, AIDA always shows SA and IO voltages higher than set in the bios so I am not sure which is correct dram voltage at 1.65, highest I ever set and only to see if it would boot take a screen and restart. TBH, I am glad there are guys like you and Scone that take all the time involved for this testing, I would normally use my other system while I am testing but it doesn't have a 4K screen and I can't bear to look at a 2560X1600 monitor any more


----------



## llantant

Running my last memory OC (few posts back) of 3600mhz ram at 1t which was previously set to auto, (Voltage VCCIO 1.23 and SA 1.288). I decided to set to 1.15 vccio and 1.2 SA and it passed 2 hours stressapp no problem. Think I should stick with that voltage or decrease a bit more??


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Running my last memory OC (few posts back) of 3600mhz ram at 1t which was previously set to auto, (Voltage VCCIO 1.23 and SA 1.288). I decided to set to 1.15 vccio and 1.2 SA and it passed 2 hours stressapp no problem. Think I should stick with that voltage or decrease a bit more??


I would stay where you are.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Scone,
> Great thread you got going on here
> I seen this article on Gskill Tirdent Z memory kit, they mention the Samsung E-die, it's a single 4 stick kit so I started messing around some, I still haven't managed a 1T at 3866 with 4 sticks and haven't done any testing with just 2 sticks but I did try several of these settings with success, not sure I am ever going to run any stability testing to contribute. takes to much time


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice! what VSA did you have to set for 4000?
> I'm looking at 1.275V with my 6700K, and only 1.225V with my 6300.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://valid.x86.fr/1ueaup


Good stuff guys. Will be seeing what the Impact can do with the right memory soon hopefully


----------



## MR-e

Hey Team!,

What's a good Z170 kit I can get with 2x8GB modules from newegg.ca? I just got an offer to sell my 5820K bundle and will be looking into a Skylake build soon








Ideally, I'd want to run in the 36xxMHz range. Are the Trident Z's the go to ram for Z170? Looking to do more research this time instead of jumping the gun and getting whatever ram.









Thank you!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Hey Team!,
> 
> What's a good Z170 kit I can get with 2x8GB modules from newegg.ca? I just got an offer to sell my 5820K bundle and will be looking into a Skylake build soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ideally, I'd want to run in the 36xxMHz range. Are the Trident Z's the go to ram for Z170? Looking to do more research this time instead of jumping the gun and getting whatever ram.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you!


The Trident Z kits are as good as any. Between 3466 and 3600 is a good place to be on this platform.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The Trident Z kits are as good as any. Between 3466 and 3600 is a good place to be on this platform.


Thanks Scone, from the 3 Gskill's linked, which one would you opt for? Pricing ranges from $229 (Ripjaw V) and $254 (Trident Z)

Link


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Thanks Scone, from the 3 Gskill's linked, which one would you opt for? Pricing ranges from $229 (Ripjaw V) and $254 (Trident Z)
> 
> Link


Probably the C16 kit. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232194

However have a look at 4 DIMM kits too, due to T-Topology on the ASUS boards these configurations can sometimes work for the better.


----------



## MR-e

Thanks, I did some googling and read up on the T-Top tech from Asus... interesting but the 4x4GB kits drive the price up considerably. I'll stick with 2x8GB as I may opt for m-itx as well.









Hope to contribute to this in a few weeks.


----------



## Menthol

Scone,
So it's either stressap for 1 hour or HCI for 1000%, Whats the best way to install Mint, on USB stick or an extra SSD, since I have these 2 kits the different combinations of speed and timings, 2 sticks or 4 sticks, the time to run HCI with 16GB is just longer than I am willing to commit to
What other timings are you guys playing with besides the first set, that shows any considerable gains?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> 
> 
> Scone,
> So it's either stressap for 1 hour or HCI for 1000%, Whats the best way to install Mint, on USB stick or an extra SSD, since I have these 2 kits the different combinations of speed and timings, 2 sticks or 4 sticks, the time to run HCI with 16GB is just longer than I am willing to commit to
> What other timings are you guys playing with besides the first set, that shows any considerable gains?


Terts if any, however all results from me have been left to the board. It's my work rig so haven't had time to retest sub timings. HCI can be painful, install Mint onto an SSD preferably. 1 hour is normally sufficient but should be left for 2. The only reason I left 1000% in the post is as this is what HCI consider to be as close to unconditional but it's not an exact science - 500% is probably enough for most users. People are free to show reduction in other timings, but wasn't willing to add these to the table


----------



## error-id10t

error-id10t -- 6700K @4.8/4.5 -- 3866Mhz-C18-20-20-39-1T --- 1.41v -- SA 1.2125v -- IO 1.2v -- HCI 1000%


----------



## Silent Scone

Added, nice OC


----------



## rt123

While running HCI memtest, pagefile enabled or disabled..?


----------



## Silent Scone

Either or, but obviously make sure the OS has room to breathe when dividing the amount per instance


----------



## rt123

Okay thanks.









How would you have split 16GB ram on 6700K...? I did 1872 per instance, good..?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Okay thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you have split 16GB ram on 6700K...? I did 1872 per instance, good..?


Per thread that sounds about right yeah depending on your background activity.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Okay thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you have split 16GB ram on 6700K...? I did 1872 per instance, good..?


Hello

I have found 93% - 95% of what Task Manager shows as available to be a good number for committing to HCI. Any more increases the likelihood of paging to the hard drive depending on background activity.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Per thread that sounds about right yeah depending on your background activity.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I have found 93% - 95% of what Task Manager shows as available to be a good number for committing to HCI. Any more increases the likelihood of paging to the hard drive depending on background activity.


Thanks to both of you guys.


----------



## thigobr

I always see this HCI batch app but I can't find it for download. Anyone knows if it's available somewhere?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thigobr*
> 
> I always see this HCI batch app but I can't find it for download. Anyone knows if it's available somewhere?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hello

That is a custom made front end using the paid version so is not available for download.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Thanks to both of you guys.


Hello

You're welcome.


----------



## Raendor

Hello guys, I have some issue with my memory. I'm running 6700k on asus z170 Pro gaming with G.Skill V XMP 2800 MHz (15-16-16-35) memory. When i was OCing my cpu I was passing Realbench stress tests with no trouble. However when I decided to try OCing my memory and testing it's stability with memtest I started to get BSODs with driver/corrupted_expool error. I reverted back to my XMP settings but was still getting the same BSODs. I have 16 GBs and windows shows that I have around 14 GB available, so i was running 8 instances with 1600 MBs each. My VVCIO and SA voltages are on auto and other settings set accordingly to rated specs. Could anyone please help?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raendor*
> 
> Hello guys, I have some issue with my memory. I'm running 6700k on asus z170 Pro gaming with G.Skill V XMP 2800 MHz (15-16-16-35) memory. When i was OCing my cpu I was passing Realbench stress tests with no trouble. However when I decided to try OCing my memory and testing it's stability with memtest I started to get BSODs with driver/corrupted_expool error. I reverted back to my XMP settings but was still getting the same BSODs. I have 16 GBs and windows shows that I have around 14 GB available, so i was running 8 instances with 1600 MBs each. My VVCIO and SA voltages are on auto and other settings set accordingly to rated specs. Could anyone please help?


Hi,

1) How long was Realbench ran for?

2) That memory should be fairly easy to setup, but on some CPU tuning of the System Agent and IO voltages may be necessary .

3) Instability in HCI can also be a result of unstable cache, if you are overclocking uncore revert to stock and retest.

Failing this return to optimsed defaults and retest XMP with other values in Auto


----------



## Raendor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 1) How long was Realbench ran for?
> 
> 2) That memory should be fairly easy to setup, but on some CPU tuning of the System Agent and IO voltages may be necessary .
> 
> 3) Instability in HCI can also be a result of unstable cache, if you are overclocking uncore revert to stock and retest.
> 
> Failing this return to optimsed defaults and retest XMP with other values in Auto


Was running Realbench for several 2-hour sessions.

I loaded optimized defaults and loaded only XMP memory profile, leaving everything else on auto and still got this error. I'm starting to worry now.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raendor*
> 
> Was running Realbench for several 2-hour sessions.
> 
> I loaded optimized defaults and loaded only XMP memory profile, leaving everything else on auto and still got this error. I'm starting to worry now.


I wouldn't worry, I doubt there is anything ominous happening. Return the memory to stock and see if the error is repeatable.

Also list what else is open


----------



## Raendor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I wouldn't worry, I doubt there is anything ominous happening. Return the memory to stock and see if the error is repeatable.
> 
> Also list what else is open


To stock, you mean run everything on stock and not even load XMP? I can do that, but what's the sense in buying that memory if it can't work on its rated specs?

I only have PrecisionX running in the tray. Except that - only standard windows stuff and nvidia drivers.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raendor*
> 
> To stock, you mean run everything on stock and not even load XMP? I can do that, but what's the sense in buying that memory if it can't work on its rated specs?
> 
> I only have PrecisionX running in the tray. Except that - only standard windows stuff and nvidia drivers.


To see if it occurs at stock. Yes, without XMP (memory at 2133). Also close Precision when running HCI


----------



## Raendor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> To see if it occurs at stock. Yes, without XMP (memory at 2133). Also close Precision when running HCI


Ok, I reverted to absolutely everything on stock but still crashed. However I didn't close the precision at that time. I will try now without precision and report back.

What bothers me is that it crashes straight into BSOD rather than just showing some error in memtest.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raendor*
> 
> Ok, I reverted to absolutely everything on stock but still crashed. However I didn't close the precision at that time. I will try now without precision and report back.
> 
> What bothers me is that it crashes straight into BSOD rather than just showing some error in memtest.


Memtest sometimes has an adverse affect on the polling period in these overclocking/OSD applications


----------



## Raendor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Memtest sometimes has an adverse affect on the polling period in these overclocking/OSD applications


It looks to me this might be the case really. Cause I passed the mark when it usually crashed before I killed Precision. Ok, I'll continue my trials with stock and then xmp if everything goes smoothly. I hope it's really just the issue with Precision. Anyway, thamk ou so much!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raendor*
> 
> It looks to me this might be the case really. Cause I passed the mark when it usually crashed before I killed Precision. Ok, I'll continue my trials with stock and then xmp if everything goes smoothly. I hope it's really just the issue with Precision. Anyway, thamk ou so much!


No problem, glad I could help


----------



## Unclefred

I'm not even sure how to ask this question... yet. I need an education basically. This thread here and this ram tuning thread at HWbot got me interest in how memory works, and frustrated that I don't have the knowledge (or tools?) to "conquer" optimization of a ram OC.

I want to be able to manually optimize DDR4 memory in BIOS of "consumer" PC's, but my google-fu is lacking as I'm not sure what questions to even ask. Where's a good place to start educating myself to understand and completely demystify:

- DRAM training
- The definition and application of _every configurable memory timing option_ in any given Intel 100 series motherboard

I'm just a hobbyist builder with no technology education - where do I even start? For now I'm watching youtube videos on digital logic basics, hopefully so I can better understand more advanced info later (such as this?). Am I barking up the wrong tree... do I need to get a computer science/engineering degree... idk what subjects to investigate at first. All I have now is some limited PC building experience and a basic electronics understanding. ANY pointers to good books/articles/key terms would be super helpful to at least my lacking google-fu.

I've breezed through all the OC guides, but I really want to understand ALL the memory timings in depth.


----------



## Formula383

Define understand, as in knowing how memory works or how timings affect different applications, or what is going to give the best performance for your pc. I cant tell you that. What i can do is tell you to keep reading memory guides there are alot out there that give good healthy amount of info.

Now if you just want to play with timings in the bios i can help you get started in what helps performance and what does not seem to make much difference.

Priority go's something like this.

2400Mhz DDR3 ram Typical performance timings.

Priority 1 - CAS: 10
Priority 4 - tRCD: 12
Priority 3 - tRP: 12
Priority 2 - tRAS: 31
Priority 2 - tRFC: 240
Priority 3 - CR: T2

Now of course you have to look at your total latency also. So memory frequency will change your ACTUAL time to complete. So lets say you have some 1000Mhz ram @ 5-5-5-25 If you run that same timings at 2000Mhz you would be effectively running 1000Mhz memory at 2.5-2.5-2.5 12.5 timings.

Now what timing do you change first? That i can not say because every memory may act different depending on brand and default timings. And expect data loss is very viable when playing with timings.

Not all timings act the same. your three base timings 10-12-12 do NOT necessarily change your over all delay. But your 31 (tRAS) will just as your 240 (tRFC) will so you have to balance them out. Now that is not exactly 100% true but it will give you a baseline on where to start. T2 (CR) is said to be your total round trip edit: CMD: Command Rate. Is the time it takes between the memory chip having been activated and when the first command may be sent to the memory. so this should be a huge massive jump in performance, its not anymore.

Lower numbers = lower latency
Higher frequency = lower latency
So as your frequency increases timings need to go up to maintain stability.
More voltage on your Ram will help timings stabilize provided you have active cooling on your ram modules
For higher frequency you may have to add to your cpu's service agent voltage, But beware adding voltage to the SA can affect stability and on some chips your SA must be balanced with the IMC or the IO voltage. IE if you raise one the other must follow and should stay at the same gap as they go up. Also dont go very far with these voltages 1.25 is about as high as i would recommend.

OK well i probably missed a few things along the way but i think that will get you started, if i find time i will see if i cant find some more articles about memory for ya....

Let me know if you have questions.


----------



## Unclefred

thanks for the reply @Formula383. What you said is about what I understand though not as well as I couldn't even put it into words like you did yet. The prioritization I've never seen laid out like that, interesting. I also gather tRAS and tRFC need to be "balanced out," just looking for a solid understanding so I'm not just taking stabs each boot attempt.

I added "DDR4 Architecture" to my google-fu and there's more info than I can even digest now. I also read that tREFI works differently for DDr4 compared to DDR3. I almost want to just wait and let some of our established forum gurus put it into words for peons like me - DDR4 is new and "intermediate" articles are few.

Frankly I'm most hungry for a mental grip on how memory training works and what it does, what secondary/tertiary timings it affects, what the mobo is doing during the process, etc. Not looking for answers here really, just a nudge in the right direction with the right search terms or a link so I can educate myself... I know I'm needy

OH I ALMOST FORGOT I need to be able to view secondary/tertiary timings with a z170 gigabyte mobo in Windows, damn BIOS only displays XMP/SPD defaults and I want to see what numbers churn out from a memory re-train. Found "RAMMon" but it only displays serial/SPD info, detailed as it is. Making me wish I had an ASUS board with their support software.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unclefred*
> 
> Frankly I'm most hungry for a mental grip on how memory training works and what it does, what secondary/tertiary timings it affects, what the mobo is doing during the process, etc. Not looking for answers here really, just a nudge in the right direction with the right search terms or a link so I can educate myself... I know I'm needy


Hello

Study the JEDEC docs for DDR4. Once you can make your way through those you will have a good grasp on the various timings and how they relate to each other.


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Define understand, as in knowing how memory works or how timings affect different applications, or what is going to give the best performance for your pc. I cant tell you that. What i can do is tell you to keep reading memory guides there are alot out there that give good healthy amount of info.
> 
> Now if you just want to play with timings in the bios i can help you get started in what helps performance and what does not seem to make much difference.
> 
> Priority go's something like this.
> 
> 2400Mhz DDR3 ram Typical performance timings.
> 
> Priority 1 - CAS: 10
> Priority 4 - tRCD: 12
> Priority 3 - tRP: 12
> Priority 2 - tRAS: 31
> Priority 2 - tRFC: 240
> Priority 3 - CR: T2
> 
> Now of course you have to look at your total latency also. So memory frequency will change your ACTUAL time to complete. So lets say you have some 1000Mhz ram @ 5-5-5-25 If you run that same timings at 2000Mhz you would be effectively running 1000Mhz memory at 2.5-2.5-2.5 12.5 timings.
> 
> Now what timing do you change first? That i can not say because every memory may act different depending on brand and default timings. And expect data loss is very viable when playing with timings.
> 
> Not all timings act the same. your three base timings 10-12-12 do NOT necessarily change your over all delay. But your 31 (tRAS) will just as your 240 (tRFC) will so you have to balance them out. Now that is not exactly 100% true but it will give you a baseline on where to start. T2 (CR) is said to be your total round trip edit: CMD: Command Rate. Is the time it takes between the memory chip having been activated and when the first command may be sent to the memory. so this should be a huge massive jump in performance, its not anymore.
> 
> Lower numbers = lower latency
> Higher frequency = lower latency
> So as your frequency increases timings need to go up to maintain stability.
> More voltage on your Ram will help timings stabilize provided you have active cooling on your ram modules
> For higher frequency you may have to add to your cpu's service agent voltage, But beware adding voltage to the SA can affect stability and on some chips your SA must be balanced with the IMC or the IO voltage. IE if you raise one the other must follow and should stay at the same gap as they go up. Also dont go very far with these voltages 1.25 is about as high as i would recommend.
> 
> OK well i probably missed a few things along the way but i think that will get you started, if i find time i will see if i cant find some more articles about memory for ya....
> 
> Let me know if you have questions.


Interesting, I have a question if you will









Have played around with my timings on my HyperX DDR 4 memory at 2666Mhz!
Think I should settle with 14 - 15 - 15 - 32 @1Command Rate!

On many reviews they seem to go for 35Tras, so my question, is it worth going for 32Tras. I read in one review they go for that.
Does it make any real difference, and can one really be sure that it's stable with those mem stresstest programs, or can some strange behaviour occur ?

Well whats your thinking about it ?


----------



## Unclefred

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Study the JEDEC docs for DDR4. Once you can make your way through those you will have a good grasp on the various timings and how they relate to each other.


Yeah I didn't even think to include JEDEC in my search. Thanks for help!!

Anyone know how to view secondary/tertiary timings in Windows on a Gigabyte mobo?


----------



## Formula383

After you lock in your core timings ie 10-12-12 then i would use 10+12+12 for my tRAS = 34 maybe less, then i guess either use your base clock to increase frequency or use tRFC to fine tune your settings.


----------



## Formula383

As for stability memory tests on prime95 are a good starting point, how ever they do not move large amounts of data like playing a game can so once you get it good and stable with prime95 just use your computer for a few hours or days and see if anything weird happens.

Does it help to get lower latency Ofcoruse. Will you notice i cant say for sure. It will only help in some situations, IE minimum FPS should see a good improvement. you want to use a benchmark or a app that you can tell is struggling and do some before after testing so you can validate your memory overclock. just because a computer will run at said timings does not mean its doing the work the fastest. Take your time to make sure its right and you will have a much quicker pc.


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> After you lock in your core timings ie 10-12-12 then i would use 10+12+12 for my tRAS = 34 maybe less, then i guess either use your base clock to increase frequency or use tRFC to fine tune your settings.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> As for stability memory tests on prime95 are a good starting point, how ever they do not move large amounts of data like playing a game can so once you get it good and stable with prime95 just use your computer for a few hours or days and see if anything weird happens.
> 
> Does it help to get lower latency Ofcoruse. Will you notice i cant say for sure. It will only help in some situations, IE minimum FPS should see a good improvement. you want to use a benchmark or a app that you can tell is struggling and do some before after testing so you can validate your memory overclock. just because a computer will run at said timings does not mean its doing the work the fastest. Take your time to make sure its right and you will have a much quicker pc.


Hey and thanks for the answer!

I use Aida64 to benchmark memory and OCCT/Realbench to test stability. Was asking about Memtest and google test in general. If they can be run without problem and there still can be instability. I guess thats why you have to use e.x Prime/OCCT/Realbench to test the full system under load








The question was more about how tRAS could behave!

And there is no way I can just plus my 14 - 15 - 15 timings as I wrote in my post, this is DDR4 you know. If I multiply them my tRAS will be 44









I guess maybe one should multiply CAS + TRCD what then will be 29. And if I remember right, thats how it should be done and for the sake of it you ad 2 = tRAS 31!

Well lets see if some other shime in!

Thanks again!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Hey and thanks for the answer!
> 
> I use Aida64 to benchmark memory and OCCT/Realbench to test stability. Was asking about Memtest and google test in general. If they can be run without problem and there still can be instability. I guess thats why you have to use e.x Prime/OCCT/Realbench to test the full system under load
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question was more about how tRAS could behave!
> 
> And there is no way I can just plus my 14 - 15 - 15 timings as I wrote in my post, this is DDR4 you know. If I multiply them my tRAS will be 44
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess maybe one should multiply CAS + TRCD what then will be 29. And if I remember right, thats how it should be done and for the sake of it you ad 2 = tRAS 31!
> 
> Well lets see if some other shime in!
> 
> Thanks again!


The minimum (minimum the memory page needs to be open for) tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and tRTP.


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The minimum (minimum the memory page needs to be open for) tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and tRTP.


Thanks for clairfyin that i was a bit foggy lol


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Thanks for clairfyin that i was a bit foggy lol


It's fine, in the circumstance an arbitrary value is set by the user or othewise, it will make no odds to the user as a correct value will be being used by the chipset. But when users want to experiment lowering these timings for memory performance it's best to at least know how the foremost timings work


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The minimum (minimum the memory page needs to be open for) tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and tRTP.


Dont undestand, then you mean like those value he was saying, it then be 44, that cant be right ?
I mean to one have such high tRAS ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Dont undestand, then you mean like those value he was saying, it then be 44, that cant be right ?
> I mean to one have such high tRAS ?


I didn't mention any values he mentioned. What I said is the minimal sum of tRAS. This cannot be lower as it needs to be open for (at least) that length of time in order for the data to transfer. When set lower, the chipset will substitute this with the minimal value or higher in order for the operation to complete.


----------



## Formula383

If you want a lower tRAS just lower your CL tRCD tRP a bit. Keep in mind if you have values set to auto they will auto tune based on what timing and speed your memory is at. At least in most cases thats how i have seen it work you must enter in value in order to keep that value.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unclefred*
> 
> thanks for the reply @Formula383. What you said is about what I understand though not as well as I couldn't even put it into words like you did yet. The prioritization I've never seen laid out like that, interesting. I also gather tRAS and tRFC need to be "balanced out," just looking for a solid understanding so I'm not just taking stabs each boot attempt.
> 
> I added "DDR4 Architecture" to my google-fu and there's more info than I can even digest now. I also read that tREFI works differently for DDr4 compared to DDR3. I almost want to just wait and let some of our established forum gurus put it into words for peons like me - DDR4 is new and "intermediate" articles are few.
> 
> Frankly I'm most hungry for a mental grip on how memory training works and what it does, what secondary/tertiary timings it affects, what the mobo is doing during the process, etc. Not looking for answers here really, just a nudge in the right direction with the right search terms or a link so I can educate myself... I know I'm needy
> 
> OH I ALMOST FORGOT I need to be able to view secondary/tertiary timings with a z170 gigabyte mobo in Windows, damn BIOS only displays XMP/SPD defaults and I want to see what numbers churn out from a memory re-train. Found "RAMMon" but it only displays serial/SPD info, detailed as it is. Making me wish I had an ASUS board with their support software.


Download the AsRock Timing Configurator. You can observe all timings in the OS with this.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> If you want a lower tRAS just lower your CL tRCD tRP a bit. Keep in mind if you have values set to auto they will auto tune based on what timing and speed your memory is at. At least in most cases thats how i have seen it work you must enter in value in order to keep that value.


Just for accuracy. tRAS should be ~ CAS+tRCD+tRTP (+/- 2 in most configurations). Not tRP AFAIK.

*Also - be aware that ram timing guidance on the BOT is not necessarily directed at STABLE ram timings... benchmarking fast, yes. Stable, questionable.*


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> If you want a lower tRAS just lower your CL tRCD tRP a bit. Keep in mind if you have values set to auto they will auto tune based on what timing and speed your memory is at. At least in most cases thats how i have seen it work you must enter in value in order to keep that value.


Hello

As @jpmboy noted the minimum value for tRAS is based on the sum of CAS, tRCD and tRTP. Also as tRCD and tRP are required to be set to the same number of clocks and are tied together only one of the two settings will be available in the UEFI as a user adjustable setting.


----------



## Jpmboy

Lol- [email protected] posted a thesis-level amount of work... but sometimes these guys go to extremes when not really needed:



Not that I'm a ram bencher like rt123 or aerotracks, or an EE like praz and raja... but an average user can get pretty far without setting up conditions that are capable of causing windows to forget its name (no really, I did just that messing with rtls, io and 4th timings







)
Be sure to have a good image of the entire system before proceeding... or use a straight benchmarking Win install.


----------



## MR-e

Ahhh the itch! Waiting on hardware shipment sucks!!


----------



## Formula383

Naw man thats the best part you get to tell all your buds you got HAREWARE IN THE MAIL YO!







or at least thats what me and all my friends did every time we got something new







waiting just makes it that much better when it arrives.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Naw man thats the best part you get to tell all your buds you got HAREWARE IN THE MAIL YO!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or at least thats what me and all my friends did every time we got something new
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waiting just makes it that much better when it arrives.


Then onto the next purchase


----------



## Formula383

So i downloaded the asrock memory tweaker and when i launch it. It says can not run on this system (x79). Ok well that blows is there a x79 version nope not that i could find at least. oook well what about Memtweakit surely that will work... lauch program nothing just a taskbar icon that does nothing and is blank lol -.- little help here? anyone know if they make one for x79?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> So i downloaded the asrock memory tweaker and when i launch it. It says can not run on this system (x79). Ok well that blows is there a x79 version nope not that i could find at least. oook well what about Memtweakit surely that will work... lauch program nothing just a taskbar icon that does nothing and is blank lol -.- little help here? anyone know if they make one for x79?


Have you checked the download page for your motherboard on Asrock's website?


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Then onto the next purchase


ya.... I am having a very hard time not picking up a haswell-e but i told my self i was going to wait unit 14nm -.- and when i think about 22nm that usaly helps deture me from doing some thing rash







But my 3 titanx with water blocks are feeling the pain of this 4960x with a measly 4.7ghz clock







I took the 4960x out of my laptop (sager) because i figured it is newer than my 3930k and it has more l3 so even if i lose a few clocks its prolly ok now the 3930k ran 5.0 all day like a champ everyday it just ate a $hit ton of power lol, so i figured hey i dont ever use my laptop maybe once a year might as well save some on the ol electric bill and maybe even get some better performance out of the deal... IDK feels about the same maybe a bit slower maybe. Thing is i have been waiting for a cpu upgrade for AGESSSSS ugh... I did break down and pick up a g4400 and thats fun to play with for now i just dont know how long i can wait :/ broadwell-e coming soonish maybe?


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Have you checked the download page for your motherboard on Asrock's website?


Ya but i dont know what i'm looking for there i looked up my board and looked under utilities but its not there.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> ya.... I am having a very hard time not picking up a haswell-e but i told my self i was going to wait unit 14nm -.- and when i think about 22nm that usaly helps deture me from doing some thing rash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But my 3 titanx with water blocks are feeling the pain of this 4960x with a measly 4.7ghz clock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took the 4960x out of my laptop (sager) because i figured it is newer than my 3930k and it has more l3 so even if i lose a few clocks its prolly ok now the 3930k ran 5.0 all day like a champ everyday it just ate a $hit ton of power lol, so i figured hey i dont ever use my laptop maybe once a year might as well save some on the ol electric bill and maybe even get some better performance out of the deal... IDK feels about the same maybe a bit slower maybe. Thing is i have been waiting for a cpu upgrade for AGESSSSS ugh... I did break down and pick up a g4400 and thats fun to play with for now i just dont know how long i can wait :/ broadwell-e coming soonish maybe?


In all honestly speaking from experience I would consider dropping one of the GPU and save yourself some money, maybe put it towards the MB, CPU and RAM cost. Without straying too far from thread, TRI SL isn't worth it in my opinion.

NVIDIA doesn't think it is, developers don't. There are obviously a number of configurations that benefit from having that extra horse power, but the time consumed optimising past two GPU's apparently isn't worth the time. If you're playing at 4K, I found two TITAN X to be sufficient, with negative scaling across multiple 2015 titles with more than two GPU. Multiple monitor setups obviously need that extra power, but with the optimisation deficits this comes with the same questions apply.

Simply put, I'd sell up - and that will make a considerable dent in your upgrade cost, but that's just my opinion


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I didn't mention any values he mentioned. What I said is the minimal sum of tRAS. This cannot be lower as it needs to be open for (at least) that length of time in order for the data to transfer. When set lower, the chipset will substitute this with the minimal value or higher in order for the operation to complete.


Maybe I dont get it, you said I quote!

"The minimum (minimum the memory page needs to be open for) tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and tRTP."

So the sum oc CAS + tRCD + tRTP = the minimal tRAS. And it that case it will be 44.
Then why are everyone not running the combined sum ot them. Thats crazy high. There must be something I dont get here mate


----------



## Formula383

Oh no no no i was happy with my 2 290x only thing was i couldn't use my monitors with them, without getting a display port monitor and the only one i could find looked like garbageeeeee omg soooo bad and it was 680$ lol. I run 3 2560x1600 and i had to get 3 titan x to natively use D-DVI. :/ Soooo even tho i would personally rather be on my AMD cards it makes no difference because it was cheaper to get 3 titanx (and the 12GB vram was welcome i always wished the 290x had a 8gb option when they came out i would have paid extra for it too...) than it was to get 1 new monitor that looked ok with displayport.


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> As @Jpmboy noted the minimum value for tRAS is based on the sum of CAS, tRCD and tRTP. Also as tRCD and tRP are required to be set to the same number of clocks and are tied together only one of the two settings will be available in the UEFI as a user adjustable setting.


Yeah I have noticed that you only can set the value to one of them in UEFI, so I did draw that conclusion that they must be the same









But what I dont get is, how come bios and the ram makers set the tRAS value way lower then the combined sum of those 3 ?

Say 15 + 15 + 15 and that should be 45, but it's most likely set at 35. How come, or what is that I dont get here


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Maybe I dont get it, you said I quote!
> 
> "The minimum (minimum the memory page needs to be open for) tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and tRTP."
> 
> So the sum oc CAS + tRCD + tRTP = the minimal tRAS. And it that case it will be 44.
> Then why are everyone not running the combined sum ot them. Thats crazy high. There must be something I dont get here mate


This is explained in the post you quoted. Most users will stick to the profiles provided by the memory vendors. What works best is really up to them, and some might have different ideas - this much is unclear. Perhaps it's to better sell the kits. However the specification for this timing is as being told. There are a few analogies for this that perhaps Raja would be better at explaining as laymanising (new word) memory is his expertise for folks like us. Effectively by lowering tRAS and not taking this rule into account you are closing the memory page before the operation has completed. Shutting the door on your data before it's arrived - I'm sure you can imagine that isn't a good thing! By having the chipset subsidise this we have no way of knowing what value is being entered.

Edit: I found one of Raja's analogies from the discussion last year:
Quote:


> Dick is one of your line operatives. You send him commands to fetch books from an archive. The books are stored on rows of shelves in a carousel arrangement. Each shelve contains xxxx amount of books.
> 
> Dick is working as fast as he accurately can. He needs 14 seconds to find locate shelf the book is on and push the button to rotate the carousel so that the shelf can be accessed. Think of that as trcd.
> 
> He needs a further 14 seconds to locate the book on that shelf and pick it up. Think of that crudely as cas.
> 
> He needs 4 seconds to get back to you. Think of this as a read burst. We wont go into trtp here for sake of simplicity.
> 
> The entire time each order takes is the sum of the three processes above. The sum of that is tras.
> 
> Each part of the process is time bound by how fast dick can work. We have to wait for dick to complete the entire process. If we ask him to rotate the carousel to retrive the next book before he has recovered the currently required book, we've interrupted the process too early.
> 
> We cannot expect the book to return sooner than the time it takes to retrieve it. The memory controller is similarly bound by the number of clocks applied to the associated timings.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Oh no no no i was happy with my 2 290x only thing was i couldn't use my monitors with them, without getting a display port monitor and the only one i could find looked like garbageeeeee omg soooo bad and it was 680$ lol. I run 3 2560x1600 and i had to get 3 titan x to natively use D-DVI. :/ Soooo even tho i would personally rather be on my AMD cards it makes no difference because it was cheaper to get 3 titanx (and the 12GB vram was welcome i always wished the 290x had a 8gb option when they came out i would have paid extra for it too...) than it was to get 1 new monitor that looked ok with displayport.


Yes unfortunately triple monitor setups need that extra GPU power, but NVIDIA can be very one-track. There just isn't enough call for the support. It's sad, but the needs of the many...


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Yeah I have noticed that you only can set the value to one of them in UEFI, so I did draw that conclusion that they must be the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what I dont get is, how come bios and the ram makers set the tRAS value way lower then the combined sum of those 3 ?
> 
> Say 15 + 15 + 15 and that should be 45, but it's most likely set at 35. How come, or what is that I dont get here


My friend, I believe you are confusing the primary tRP timing with the secondary tRTP. If you look closely at Jpmboy's screenshot, you will see it is the sum of tCL + tRCD + tRTP as Praz and Jp noted.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> As @Jpmboy noted the minimum value for tRAS is based on the sum of *CAS*, *tRCD* and *tRTP*. Also as tRCD and tRP are required to be set to the same number of clocks and are tied together only one of the two settings will be available in the UEFI as a user adjustable setting.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> So i downloaded the asrock memory tweaker and when i launch it. It says can not run on this system (x79). Ok well that blows is there a x79 version nope not that i could find at least. oook well what about Memtweakit surely that will work... lauch program nothing just a taskbar icon that does nothing and is blank lol -.- little help here? anyone know if they make one for x79?


erm... DDR3 is a bit different from DDR4 (eg, shammy's link you posted). Please fill out rigbuilder so we know what kit/gear you are working with... will avoid pointing you to x99 and z170 stuff.








BTW - I use memtweak it on my x79 (Rampage 4 BE). what MB are you using?


----------



## Formula383

Asrock x79 extreme 11 http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X79%20Extreme11/

i looked for the asrock utility for the x99 on asrock site too and i couldent find so maybe i just dont know were to look?


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> My friend, I believe you are confusing the primary tRP timing with the secondary tRTP. If you look closely at Jpmboy's screenshot, you will see it is the sum of tCL + tRCD + tRTP as Praz and Jp noted.


OMG!
Well there we have it, I was under the impression that it was just all those 3 primary values you summed up!
Woow, so thats is a whole different story then. So to get it straight. You sum up 2 primary + one secondary tRTP









Dident noticed that at all as it's almost the same name. Well I run and hide guys









Thanks a lot mate for putting me straight









@Silent Scone!

I had just mixed up those value as you seen, Sexpot put me straight!
Big thanks to all of you guys


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Asrock x79 extreme 11 http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X79%20Extreme11/
> 
> i looked for the asrock utility for the x99 on asrock site too and i couldent find so maybe i just dont know were to look?


 TimingConfiguratorv4.0.3.zip 2879k .zip file


TimingConfiguratorv3.0.5.zip 2619k .zip file


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> OMG!
> Well there we have it, I was under the impression that it was just all those 3 primary values you summed up!
> Woow, so thats is a whole different story then. So to get it straight. You sum up 2 primary + one secondary tRTP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dident noticed that at all as it's almost the same name. Well I run and hide guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot mate for putting me straight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Silent Scone!
> 
> I had just mixed up those value as you seen, Sexpot put me straight!
> Big thanks to all of you guys


Easily done, thankfully my post is still applicable to your question anyway


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is explained in the post you quoted. Most users will stick to the profiles provided by the memory vendors. What works best is really up to them, and some might have different ideas - this much is unclear. Perhaps it's to better sell the kits. However the specification for this timing is as being told. There are a few analogies for this that perhaps Raja would be better at explaining as laymanising (new word) memory is his expertise for folks like us. Effectively by lowering tRAS and not taking this rule into account you are closing the memory page before the operation has completed. Shutting the door on your data before it's arrived - I'm sure you can imagine that isn't a good thing! By having the chipset subsidise this we have no way of knowing what value is being entered.
> 
> Edit: I found one of Raja's analogies from the discussion last year:
> 
> Yes unfortunately triple monitor setups need that extra GPU power, but NVIDIA can be very one-track. There just isn't enough call for the support. It's sad, but the needs of the many...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Easily done, thankfully my post is still applicable to your question anyway


Yeah that true, I was typing the correct name but dident even saw that one extra letter tRP vs tRTP. Much to think and learned these last days so my brain must be on to much over(clock)Load, to understand









Btw, good post there, think I understand a little how tRAS works now, thank you Sir









Anyway, thanks for not saying **** you noob








You guys are awesome, million thanks to you all


----------



## MR-e

It's these threads that I like to read more on OCN as it contains more substance with questions asked vs questioned answered.

Most generic help me overclock threads are, "I set 4.8 ghz profile and let my bios auto oc for me, but now everything runs hot and unstable. what did I do wrong? HELP!!" <- these just get turned a blind eye.


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> TimingConfiguratorv4.0.3.zip 2879k .zip file
> 
> 
> TimingConfiguratorv3.0.5.zip 2619k .zip file


Ok well that did not go so well either the v3.0.5 opens! but has error and nothing is reading proper. the 4.0.3 BSOD every time. so i'm guessing that the v4.0.3 is for x99?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Yeah I have noticed that you only can set the value to one of them in UEFI, so I did draw that conclusion that they must be the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what I dont get is, how come bios and the ram makers set the tRAS value way lower then the combined sum of those 3 ?
> 
> Say 15 + 15 + 15 and that should be 45, but it's most likely set at 35. How come, or what is that I dont get here


Actually, tRTP is probably NOT 15 on x99 (probably 10 on most bios) or z170 (10-12 depending on the ram freq). A low tRAS looks good in a screen shot, but values far below the required time window (nicely explained by Scone) are treated as a timing error and the bios corrects the error during traning... unfortunately, even when one purposely sets a tRAS value too low and the error is corected we cannot interrogate the nymber substituted (it's likely the proper sum of sub timings).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Ok well that did not go so well either the v3.0.5 opens! but has error and nothing is reading proper. the 4.0.3 BSOD every time. so i'm guessing that the v4.0.3 is for x99?


Sorry bud, took a awhile to hunt those down among the rigs here. those are the only two I have - one or the other works on x99, z170, I use memtweak on x79 but can test ASTC on x79...

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
@silent scone
slight update to the OP table: (lower vdimm and VSa)


----------



## Unclefred

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Ok well that did not go so well either the v3.0.5 opens! but has error and nothing is reading proper. the 4.0.3 BSOD every time. so i'm guessing that the v4.0.3 is for x99?


Just reporting in - 4.0.3 opens and displays all info fine on GA-Z170MX Gaming 5, Win10 Home.
changing dimm settings in Windows doesn't train memory and so performance takes a hit anyways [citation needed, I read somewhere and it makes sense to me]. As such I'm using it now for display only and changing settings in BIOS only, as the good lord intended.

edit: Using the Gigabyte Fast Boot App's "boot to bios" button has been a time saver


----------



## JnLoader

Sorry for the double post :/


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Actually, tRTP is probably NOT 15 on x99 (probably 10 on most bios) or z170 (10-12 depending on the ram freq). A low tRAS looks good in a screen shot, but values far below the required time window (nicely explained by Scone) are treated as a timing error and the bios corrects the error during traning... unfortunately, even when one purposely sets a tRAS value too low and the error is corected we cannot interrogate the nymber substituted (it's likely the proper sum of sub timings).
> Sorry bud, took a awhile to hunt those down among the rigs here. those are the only two I have - one or the other works on x99, z170, I use memtweak on x79 but can test ASTC on x79...
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Sir!
> 
> Actually I have the Z170 board - Skylake 6600k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mixed up the tRP with the secondary timing (that I should look for) tRTP. So they pointed me right and explained it for me!
> 
> Thanks fpr you answer, appreciated as allways :thumb
Click to expand...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> @silent scone
> slight update to the OP table: (lower vdimm and VSa)


Nice one










How are you finding 3866 @ 1T?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are you finding 3866 @ 1T?


Lol - Easy when I put my reading spectacles on.








Very snappy!


----------



## JnLoader

One more question for you guys









So now that I have learned that one of the memory timings tRTP you should add to the sum of the two first timing, but in the UEFI Bios I cant find it as they have other strange names.
So to put it simple, what is the secondary timing tRTP called there ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> One more question for you guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now that I have learned that one of the memory timings tRTP you shoul add to the sum of the two first timing, but in the UEFI Bios I cant find it as they have other strange name.
> So to put it simple, what is the secondary timing tRTP called there ?


read to PRE time


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> read to PRE time


Okey so you mean - DRAM READ to PRE Time ?
That value is set on 10 in my UEFI!

So that will ad up like 14 - 15 + READ TIME 10 = 39
How come then in XMP set it to 35tRAS, and that is with 15 -17 - 10 = 42, so you see if thats the case, why is not tRAS set to atleast 42 or more ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Okey so you mean - DRAM READ to PRE Time ?
> That value is set on 10 in my UEFI!
> 
> So that will ad up like 14 - 15 + READ TIME 10 = 39
> How come then in XMP set it to 35tRAS, and that is with 15 -17 - 10 = 42, so you se if thats the case, why is not tRAS set to atleast 42 or more ?


I covered this in my post to you. It seems to be a difference of binning or methodology between vendors. Perhaps they think it looks better when selling kits, but the timing rule still applies regardless.


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I covered this in my post to you. It seems to be a difference of binning or methodology between vendors. Perhaps they think it looks better when selling kits, but the timing rule still applies regardless.


Alright I see. So in the end I cant relly be sure if my tRAS is totaly stable, as there aint no other way to calculate what the tRAS value should be.

Feeling little afraid now LOL. Should I just set it at 35 as it was and just be happy with the other timings I have managed to set lower


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Alright I see. So in the end I cant relly be sure if my tRAS is totaly stable, as there aint no other way to calculate what the tRAS value should be.
> 
> Feeling little afraid now LOL. Should I just set it at 35 as it was and just be happy with the other timings I have managed to set lower


Hello

The reality is you can set tRAS to any value you would like. The motherboard is smart enough to know when one has ventured into the impossible and will make adjustments accordingly.


----------



## MR-e

In other words, it's a marketing gimmick. Best to manually set it to the correct value and live with knowing it should be 42 instead of 35.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> In other words, it's a marketing gimmick. Best to manually set it to the correct value and live with knowing it should be 42 instead of 35.


In my opinion, if you look at how long vendors have been selling these kits predetermined regardless, it's safe to say that for the large majority of cases the offset taking place is a minute deficit that most people wouldn't even fathom to look into for any performance lost from within the subsystem. I know we care about these things, but in terms of real world performance it's a non issue


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> The reality is you can set tRAS to any value you would like. The motherboard is smart enough to know when one has ventured into the impossible and will make adjustments accordingly.


Huh so in the end it doesent matter. I mean how low is to low, and then the MB just takes over the ride and say, No Sire slow down, you tRAS is now set at 64, and theres nothing you can do about it or even notice in those dreadful benchmarking progs ..LOL!

Well thanks for your intput, I guess it's just benchmark different values and see whats come out on top


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> In my opinion, if you look at how long vendors have been selling these kits predetermined regardless, it's safe to say that for the large majority of cases the offset taking place is a minute deficit that most people wouldn't even fathom to look into for any performance lost from within the subsystem. I know we care about these things, but in terms of real world performance it's a non issue


Yeah I have heard many says timings dont matter much at all, or should I say some really seems to do.
Atleast the Cas value and command rate. Atleast thats what I have seen in Aida64 memory benchmark


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Huh so in the end it doesent matter. I mean how low is to low, and then the MB just takes over the ride and say, No Sire slow down, you tRAS is now set at 64, and theres nothing you can do about it or even notice in those dreadful benchmarking progs ..LOL!
> 
> Well thanks for your intput, I guess it's just benchmark different values and see whats come out on top


there is a limit to the board's ability to correct our errors... it's pretty easy to find with tRAS. Basically I have found that staying +/-2 around the "rule" gives the best performance AND holds up to thorough stability testing.


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> there is a limit to the board's ability to correct our errors... it's pretty easy to find with tRAS. Basically I have found that staying +/-2 around the "rule" gives the best performance AND holds up to thorough stability testing.


Thats interesting to hear.

So that would be like in my case, the best would actually be 44 +/-2









Well it doesent hurt to do some testing at those values, instead of 32/35!

Thanks again for your input mate


----------



## Silent Scone

*[UPDATE JAN 2016]*

This thread will now also include results posted for the X99 platform. However please try to remember the following to keep the discussion from becoming confusing, as what may work on one platform may not be viable on the other.


Keep rig builder up to date in your signature, or keep your spec current within it.
Clarify what platform and CPU you are speaking about when asking a particular question or speaking about your experience
Quote the user you are replying to when replying
When posting stability results, be sure to include the CPU as described in the posting results instructions

Happy posting!


----------



## Praz

Hello

Praz--R5E-i7 5960X @4.4/4.1---3200Mhz-32GB-C16-16-16-42-1T----1.35v---SA 0.96250v---Stressapptest----2 Hour



HCI 850%----Included for CPU-Z and voltage info.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> *[UPDATE JAN 2016]*
> 
> This thread will now also include results posted for the X99 platform. However please try to remember the following to keep the discussion from becoming confusing, as what may work on one platform may not be viable on the other.
> 
> Keep rig builder up to date in your signature, or keep your spec current within it.
> Clarify what platform and CPU you are speaking about when asking a particular question or speaking about your experience
> Quote the user you are replying to when replying
> When posting stability results, be sure to include the CPU as described in the posting results instructions
> Happy posting!


Same criteria?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Same criteria?


Yep, although open to suggestion!


----------



## JnLoader

Update about my ram timings rumble!

Tested with both 32 / 35 and 44 tRAS. Guess what, there seems to be no speciall difference when benched in Aida64. The crazy thing is that the ns went down.
But I guess you guys allready know that. So atleast it seems that touching tRAS dont matter much!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Praz--R5E-i7 5960X @4.4/4.1---3200Mhz-32GB-C16-16-16-42-1T----1.35v---SA 0.96250v---Stressapptest----2 Hour
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HCI 850%----Included for CPU-Z and voltage info.


Thank Praz, I've also added Input voltage to the table for those that wish to add it


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yep, although open to suggestion!


lol- NP with the GSAT criteria... but that 1000% with 32GB is, well "epoch"


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol- NP with the GSAT criteria... but that 1000% with 32GB is, well "epoch"


lol, yes. I've been adding results below this. I'll remove this comment, a minimal amount of 200% required for table entry. Any lower likely blurs the lines of stability. Best to stick to GSAT testing really for this much memory.

200% for 32GB density and over

400% for 16GB or less


----------



## Jpmboy

Can GSAT be run through Oracle VBox?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Can GSAT be run through Oracle VBox?


I don't see why you couldn't, but I'm not sure if you should. Unless Praz or Raja have come across this before I'd be inclined to ask their support over on their boards. May have implications, may even make it harder to pass.


----------



## Kimir

I've been following this, but not having a Skylake I didn't post nothing, but now that you've added x99, I can.

All the following with the HyperX Predator 4 x 4GB 2666C13 (HX426C13PB2K4/16)

Kimir --- i7 [email protected]/4.4 --- 3200Mhz-C15-16-16-35-1T --- 1.41v --- SA 0.960v --- Stressapptest --- 6 Hours

Kimir --- i7 [email protected]/4.4 --- 3200Mhz-C15-16-16-35-1T --- 1.41v --- SA 0.960v --- HCI --- 2000%


Kimir --- i7 [email protected]/4.4 --- 2666Mhz-C12-13-13-29-1T --- 1.38v --- SA 0.960v --- HCI --- 1000%

I have been able to lower that to 1.365 and ran 2h of GSAT, must have the screen somewhere.


----------



## Silent Scone

Cheers


----------



## Kimir

Edited my post, added the ram used for reference. Wouldn't want to confuse anyone when I get the TZ 3200C14. xD


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Edited my post, added the ram used for reference. Wouldn't want to confuse anyone when I get the TZ 3200C14. xD


I may or may not have bought a set too. So bad.


----------



## Silent Scone

Old result from my 3400Mhz 4x4 kit for some filler before clocking off

Silent Scone-- i7 [email protected]/4.1 --- 3200Mhz-C14-16-16-38-1T --- 1.42v --- SA 0.985v --- HCI ---800%


----------



## Jpmboy

can I join the party?

jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.1 -- 3200c13-13-13-28-1T --- 1.40V --- SA 1.000 -- GSAT --- 1h (GS TZ 3200c14 4x8GB kit)

(overlay on GSAT SS when back in W10







)


----------



## Desolutional

You used VirtualBox for that? If that's acceptable, I'll run my kit through for an hour sometime this week I guess. I have the C16 version of your kit, binned for Z170.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> You used VirtualBox for that? If that's acceptable, I'll run my kit through for an hour sometime this week I guess. I have the C16 version of your kit, binned for Z170.


nah bro, I'm a linux noob (tho it's scary close to powershell) I get this error:


----------



## Desolutional

It failed to align memory because it tried to test 7393MB, but only 6234MB were free? I wonder if Hyper-V would work better. Be warned, the OS is quite laggy in Hyper-V because it uses software rendering. Hyper-V is a Type 1 hypervisor meaning it's got direct control over the components pretty much; VBox is Type 2, so sort of emulates the system being tested on. Not sure if that would produce any errors; but Type 1 would be closer to a native Linux boot.


----------



## Praz

Hello

Testing in a VM is not going to allow access to the majority of the memory.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Testing in a VM is not going to allow access to the majority of the memory.


Indeed, would it make a difference if Windows is loaded, and the VM is assigned ~90% of the system RAM?


----------



## Jpmboy

got it.. it only addresses the memory allocated to the VM (i know... duh)



also... after a (very) little reading prompted by @Blameless, doubling tREFI seems to have a benefit








Effect on L2 cache latency is reproducible/real...


----------



## shremi

Quick question can i make a bootable mint USB ??? I was thinking of doing that instead of using a VM .... I just dont know if stressing over a booteable usb might cause errors since i am using a usb and not a HDD


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Quick question can i make a bootable mint USB ??? I was thinking of doing that instead of using a VM .... I just dont know if stressing over a booteable usb might cause errors since i am using a usb and not a HDD


For the sake of uniformity and the least likely to cause corruption a SATA HDD should be used, however you can use a USB device if needed


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> also... after a (very) little reading prompted by @Blameless, doubling tREFI seems to have a benefit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Effect on L2 cache latency is reproducible/real...


That's interesting.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> It failed to align memory because it tried to test 7393MB, but only 6234MB were free? I wonder if Hyper-V would work better. Be warned, the OS is quite laggy in Hyper-V because it uses software rendering. Hyper-V is a Type 1 hypervisor meaning it's got direct control over the components pretty much; VBox is Type 2, so sort of emulates the system being tested on. Not sure if that would produce any errors; but Type 1 would be closer to a native Linux boot.


It would mean more load is being placed on the CPU but I doubt this would have much affect on the test. Probably best not to do this, if it's the lack of HDD that is the problem for ease of access to the OS probably better to use a USB device. If people want to see if they can mimic instability and stability with both methods that would be worth knowing, but only if majority of memory can be allocated.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> also... after a (very) little reading prompted by @Blameless, doubling tREFI seems to have a benefit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Effect on L2 cache latency is reproducible/real...


That's interesting.. I was just checking what I was getting and noticed that my trefi had gone up from 10300 to 11440 and the only thing changed is the "new" microcode 74 and it also gives a repeatable improvement across the board on L2. That's of course much less than doubling the whole value though.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> That's interesting.. I was just checking what I was getting and noticed that my trefi had gone up from 10300 to 11440 and the only thing changed is the "new" microcode 74 and it also gives a repeatable improvement across the board on L2. That's of course much less than doubling the whole value though.


Assuming you're running the same memory frequency as you were before?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> That's interesting.


It's because increasing tREFI results in fewer DRAM refreshes over a given time interval. During refresh, memory is not available for read/write operations. Therefore, a longer refresh interval allows more IO over the bus. That's the upshot. The downside to a longer refresh interval is increased chance of data corruption. DRAM cells lose charge over time. A periodic refresh recharges the cells to ensure adequate levels for the stored data.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It would mean more load is being placed on the CPU but I doubt this would have much affect on the test. Probably best not to do this, if it's the lack of HDD that is the problem for ease of access to the OS probably better to use a USB device. If people want to see if they can mimic instability and stability with both methods that would be worth knowing, but only if majority of memory can be allocated.


I'll give it a shot once I've sorted out Hyper-V. Will see how it goes.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> It's because increasing tREFI results in fewer DRAM refreshes over a given time interval. During fefresh, memory is not available for read/write operations. Therefore, a longer refresh interval allows more IO over the bus. That's the upshot. The downside to a longer refresh interval is increased chance of data corruption. DRAM cells lose charge over time. A periodic refresh recharges the cells to ensure adequate levels for the stored data.


Thanks Raja. Do you think HCI memtest or GSAT would/could uncover the dram cell dissipation thing? dram temps only hit 30 or so, maybe at higher temperatures this would fail.









_________________________
@silent scone

overnight HCI:


and kept AID64 stability open, but not running in the background:


----------



## Formula383

Maybe i do something wrong but these images are soo low quality i can not read them :/

Also i have question in regards to CL timing vs tRFC. At what point will the extra loose tRFC just nullify the low (performance ram timing) CL clock? IE 3200Mhz @ 14-14-14-34-560 vs 2800Mhz 16-16-16-38-200? Is the 14 going to be alot faster even tho the tRFC is way loser? I just feel like why bother with lower CL if you have to have a much higher tRFC? Does tRFC really have that little of a effect on latency?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Maybe i do something wrong but these images are soo low quality i can not read them :/
> 
> Also i have question in regards to CL timing vs tRFC. At what point will the extra loose tRFC just nullify the low (performance ram timing) CL clock? IE 3200Mhz @ 14-14-14-34-560 vs 2800Mhz 16-16-16-38-200? Is the 14 going to be alot faster even tho the tRFC is way loser? I just feel like why bother with lower CL if you have to have a much higher tRFC? Does tRFC really have that little of a effect on latency?


after clicking the image, click the "Original" button. Or rt-click>open in a new tab


why would you run 560 at 2800??


----------



## dhaine

I'm running DDR4 at voltage 1.568

Is there really any risk at 24/7 desktop usage ?

Max temp under stress test goes to 50c

This ram can boot with 1.9v for superpi test.

Ram cost is not so expansive and I've never heard of ddr4 being burnt at less than 1.6 yet

so why is it everyone is staying under 1.4 ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhaine*
> 
> I'm running DDR4 at voltage 1.568
> 
> Is there really any risk at 24/7 desktop usage ?
> 
> Max temp under stress test goes to 50c
> 
> This ram can boot with 1.9v for superpi test.
> 
> Ram cost is not so expansive and I've never heard of ddr4 being burnt at less than 1.6 yet
> 
> so why is it everyone is staying under 1.4 ?


Is there acceptable risk, that's the question and I think you answered it for yourself.
Intel's max XMP certification for DDR4 is 1.5V and their risk is not the ram sticks per se - right?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thanks Raja. Do you think HCI memtest or GSAT would/could uncover the dram cell dissipation thing? dram temps only hit 30 or so, maybe at higher temperatures this would fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


This depends on how frequently the data is written to and read from DRAM. A good test should feature patterns that result in sufficient idling between banks at some point. Other than that, I suppose one can use day-to-day apps after the stress test has passed (assuming tREFI is the only thing that was changed).


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> This depends on how frequently the data is written to and read from DRAM. A good test should feature patterns that result in sufficient idling between banks at some point. Other than that, *I suppose one can use day-to-day apps after the stress test has passed (assuming tREFI is the only thing that was changed)*.


lol - on going.


----------



## dhaine

thanks you for answer Jpmboy, but I'm not sure to understand, do you mean it is not only the sticks but also the cpu and motherboard at risk ?

I'm willing to take risk but I don't want to damage motherboard and cpu ;p

has anyone ever tried or heard of damage with 24/7 around 1.6 ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhaine*
> 
> thanks you for answer Jpmboy, but I'm not sure to understand, do you mean it is not only the sticks but also the cpu and motherboard at risk ?
> 
> I'm willing to take risk but I don't want to damage motherboard and cpu ;p
> 
> has anyone ever tried or heard of damage with 24/7 around 1.6 ?


It's not what I mean... Intel's AOR is what it is.
what frequency and timings are you looking to run 24.7 that require 1.6V?
Maybe @aerotracks has advice he can provide in this voltage range.


----------



## NYD117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thanks Raja. Do you think HCI memtest or GSAT would/could uncover the dram cell dissipation thing? dram temps only hit 30 or so, maybe at higher temperatures this would fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________
> @silent scone
> 
> overnight HCI:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and kept AID64 stability open, but not running in the background:


Hey Jp.

Some days ago I tried tightening secondary timings a bit on my old kit and I raised tREFI as well.
The configuration passed 500% HCI successfully. The next day I tried GSAT and at the 15 min mark I got a single tripped hex in a testing pattern from b5 to bd in a b5b5b5b5... sequence.
The actual difference bitwise is a single bit in this error going from 0101 which is 5 to 1101 which is d. I don't know how bits are being stored in memory depending on charge but I decided to try lowering tREFI a bit.

In case it was data corruption due to tREFI, lower charge should mean the bit value should be 1 instead of the more sensible 0 though. This could just be a coincidence by letting the memory "breathe" a little more by only loosening tREFI but then GSAT passed 1hr of testing without problems.

I thought I should share this info nevertheless.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1268061/ocn-ram-addict-club-gallery/7270#post_24804914


----------



## dhaine

i run 3600 c13 18 18 28 1 with 1.57 (4.8/4.8 1.2io 1.25sa) (it's 4x4 gskill 3200 c16 samsung e-die)
i am willing to loosen up timings but i want to keep 3600 1T

I tried 15-18-18 28 with 1.5 but it's not working, I need to try again even higher timings something like 3600 17-18-18-38-1T or even 18-18-18-38-1T at 1.5 or lower could probably work but i was satisfied with 3600 c13 lol... now if that's really too much of a risk i guess it's time to go down


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYD117*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> 
> Hey Jp.
> 
> Some days ago I tried tightening secondary timings a bit on my old kit and I raised tREFI as well.
> The configuration passed 500% HCI successfully. The next day I tried GSAT and at the 15 min mark I got a single tripped hex in a testing pattern from b5 to bd in a b5b5b5b5... sequence.
> The actual difference bitwise is a single bit in this error going from 0101 which is 5 to 1101 which is d. I don't know how bits are being stored in memory depending on charge but I decided to try lowering tREFI a bit.
> 
> In case it was data corruption due to tREFI, lower charge should mean the bit value should be 1 instead of the more sensible 0 though. This could just be a coincidence by letting the memory "breathe" a little more by only loosening tREFI but then GSAT passed 1hr of testing without problems.
> 
> I thought I should share this info nevertheless.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1268061/ocn-ram-addict-club-gallery/7270#post_24804914


thanks bud... I'm still fleshing this out a bit. I'll run GSAT today...
*EDIT*: running gsat ATM 75% done and okay so far. When you tightened things up did you manually set a dram clock period? I believe this might hold things a bit more constsnt between boots. Just a guess, but seems empirically true on x99 and z170, today.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhaine*
> 
> i run 3600 c13 18 18 28 1 with 1.57 (4.8/4.8 1.2io 1.25sa) (it's 4x4 gskill 3200 c16 samsung e-die)
> i am willing to loosen up timings but i want to keep 3600 1T
> I tried 15-18-18 28 with 1.5 but it's not working, I need to try again even higher timings something like 3600 17-18-18-38-1T or even 18-18-18-38-1T at 1.5 or lower could probably work but i was satisfied with 3600 c13 lol... now if that's really too much of a risk i guess it's time to go down


this is on skylake I assume? PLEASE fillout rigbuilder and add it to you sig block.

post an AID64 memtest snip with those setting please.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhaine*
> 
> i run 3600 c13 18 18 28 1 with 1.57 (4.8/4.8 1.2io 1.25sa) (it's 4x4 gskill 3200 c16 samsung e-die)
> i am willing to loosen up timings but i want to keep 3600 1T
> 
> I tried 15-18-18 28 with 1.5 but it's not working, I need to try again even higher timings something like 3600 17-18-18-38-1T or even 18-18-18-38-1T at 1.5 or lower could probably work but i was satisfied with 3600 c13 lol... now if that's really too much of a risk i guess it's time to go down


You could always aim for a low 3466. As above fill out rig builder so others know what platform you are speaking about


----------



## MR-e

Got a few parts in the mail, 3600 C16 2x8GB - I believe this is the E-Die?

Titan X is on truck for delivery today, might have to pick it up at post office tomorrow









Soon™


----------



## michael-ocn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> also... after a (very) little reading prompted by @Blameless, doubling tREFI seems to have a benefit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Effect on L2 cache latency is reproducible/real...


Nice little bump there in bandwidth. I had tried lowering tRTP and tFAW but didn't really observe an improvement. I'll definitely try tweaking tREFI too.

edit: Not sure? I doubled fREFI but also made tRAS and tRCT changes between the new and old runs.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Got a few parts in the mail, 3600 C16 2x8GB - I believe this is the E-Die?
> 
> Titan X is on truck for delivery today, might have to pick it up at post office tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soon™
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice. Let us know how you get on with the Impact


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *michael-ocn*
> 
> Nice little bump there in bandwidth. I had tried lowering tRTP and tFAW but didn't really observe an improvement. I'll definitely try tweaking tREFI too.
> 
> edit: Not sure? I doubled fREFI but also made tRAS and tRCT changes between the new and old runs.


yeah, hard to draw a conclusion then... one variable at a time as my advisor would say (a long time ago in a galaxy far-far away... )


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice. Let us know how you get on with the Impact


Will do, I'm seeing no local stock for the 6700K here though, may have to wait a bit longer. Hoping I could get a few and bin some, then return the booboo's.








Would you suggest putting everything to auto, setting LLC to 5, put a fixed 1.35V and then crank the multi and then keep the best cpu of the batch? Anything else I should set when trying to bin for a high clocking cpu? I'll be de-lidding with the Skylake titty-twister from Aquacomputers









Still a bit disappointed I had to return the Samsung 950, why didn't Asus just put the m.2 on the back of the impact


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Will do, I'm seeing no local stock for the 6700K here though, may have to wait a bit longer. Hoping I could get a few and bin some, then return the booboo's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you suggest putting everything to auto, setting LLC to 5, put a fixed 1.35V and then crank the multi and then keep the best cpu of the batch? Anything else I should set when trying to bin for a high clocking cpu? I'll be de-lidding with the Skylake titty-twister from Aquacomputers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still a bit disappointed I had to return the Samsung 950, why didn't Asus just put the m.2 on the back of the impact


See if you can hit 4.7 with 1.35v









As for the m.2 slot, this board is essentially a no compromise product. It's a performance behemoth in a tiny form factor with engineering for engineering sake, which has shown in reviews comparatively. The back of the board is still a hot spot effectively. Have a listen to the podcast, you can find them in the homepage reel. The first episode covers the Impact and the implications / reasons for what was chosen (in this case u.2) to be implemented, and it does make a lot of sense


----------



## Jpmboy

2x tREFi looks good in GSAT too.


----------



## michael-ocn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 2x tREFi looks good in GSAT too.


Brrrr... 15c it's chilly in there







Is that a virtual'ized arctic mint or the real deal?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *michael-ocn*
> 
> Brrrr... 15c it's chilly in there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a virtual'ized arctic mint or the real deal?


it seems to read like 5C lower than aid64 in windows? 360 rad intake is right in front of a window tho... flow routes from the last block to a 4x420 rad floor-standing rad to a 360 on the back of the bench. yeah - coolant temp is 18C right now.









oh - that's Mint running off an SSD.


----------



## Desolutional

The newer Linux kernel builds aren't playing nice with Hyper-V; going to try going back a little further.


----------



## Silent Scone

I'll add your results JP in approx 630 seconds. Thought I'd test the refresh as well on my old Samsung Ripjaws whilst I cooked lol.


----------



## Desolutional

Stuff is happening.



Targeting 75% at the moment cause I've got Firefox and other stuff open. Will see how it goes. Linux Mint - Debian Edition, Ver. 2.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'll add your results JP in approx 630 seconds. Thought I'd test the refresh as well on my old Samsung Ripjaws whilst I cooked lol.


thanks bud. also HCI 1000%. VCCIN is 1.95V LLC5
http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/360_20#post_24812525


----------



## JnLoader

Thats it for tweaking mem timings for me!

I just started Ocing my GPU (GTX 970) after what I though was a stable CPU overclock. When starting Ocing the gpu it wouldent take much to have it fail, say 50 mhz over stock = 100hz as it's DDR in Afterburner!
And Ocing the mem was a no deal. So after thinking what a crappy GPU, I just for the sake of it set my CPU Oc to stock, and voila it would overclock like crazy, on both the Core and Memory!

So guess what, it was the damn memory timings that was the problem, I mean the RAM of course. I set it back to the loose stock timings 16 - 18 -18 - 36. And voila again.
I even tried give the Ram more Voltage, and let the mobo take care of it. Even set my IO / SA at Auto.

Nothing was helping, only just loosing up the ram timings. And in every stresstest program it went smooth, but when Ocing the GPU it went staight to he..!
I am very disapointed. I have never heard of how that could make Ocing the GPU almost impossible.

So if I want to be able to O/C my GPU I just have to use very loose timings









I guess many would have though, well first we o/c the cpu/ram and when it's stable you go on to the GPU, thats what I have allways done before.
This seems really crazy dont you think ?

It would be really good if [email protected] could help us with a Memory Timings Guide or something


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Thats it for tweaking mem timings for me!
> 
> I just started Ocing my GPU (GTX 970) after what I though was a stable CPU overclock. When starting Ocing the gpu it wouldent take much to have it fail, say 50 mhz over stock = 100hz as it's DDR in XXX
> And Ocing the mem was a no deal. So after thinking what a crappy GPU, I just for teh sake of it set my CPU Oc to stock, and voila it would overclock like crazy, on bothe the Core and Memory!
> 
> So guess what, it was the damn memory timings that was the problem, I mean the RAM of course. I set it back to the loose stock timings 16 - 18 -18 - 36. And voila again.
> I even tried give the Ram more Voltage, and let the mobo take care of it. Even set my IO / SA at Auto.
> 
> Nothing was helping, only just loosing up the ram timings. And in every stresstest program it went smooth, but when Ocing the GPU it wen staight ot he..!
> I am very disapointed. I have never heard of how that could make Ocing the GPU almost impossible.
> 
> So if I want to be able to O/C my GPU I just have to use very loose timings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess many would have though, well first we o/c the cpu/ram and when it's stable you go on to the GPU, thats what I have allways done before.
> This seems really crazy dont you think ?
> 
> It would be really good if [email protected] could helt us with a Memory Timings Guide or something


Honestly no idea where you went wrong there. Depends on what stress tests you used to test the memory, likely wasn't ever stable. Unstable cache and memory can cause TDR events


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Honestly no idea where you went wrong there. Depends on what stress tests you used to test the memory, likely wasn't ever stable. Unstable cache and memory can cause TDR events


I see, and I have not o/c the cache, it set at 100hz. I even lowered the SA to 800Hz, it doesent help eaiter!

Well I dont know what to do, I guess I have to keep trying and learning guys.

And as allways, thanks for your input


----------



## Desolutional

It worked, BCLK being weird, going to jump into the BIOS to fix that. How acceptable is this?

*If you're trying to do this stuff in a VM, make sure to leave a few gigs free for the host OS, otherwise you end up getting segmentation faults.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> I see, and I have not o/c the cache, it set at 100hz. I even lowered the SA to 800Hz, it doesent help eaiter!
> 
> Well I dont know what to do, I guess I have to keep trying and learning guys.
> 
> And as allways, thanks for your input


No worrries.

SA and IO voltages (Z170) scale pretty well in auto for the most part. If you're stable at the timings used now then the memory wasn't stable before. Using the test methods provided in the OP will get you closer to being stable before encountering the issues you were seeing when playing games.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> 
> 
> It worked, BCLK being weird, going to jump into the BIOS to fix that. How acceptable is this?
> 
> *If you're trying to do this stuff in a VM, make sure to leave a few gigs free for the host OS, otherwise you end up getting segmentation faults.


Therein lies the issue, allocating less memory effectively makes it a less efficient test. This is really only a convenience thing


----------



## Desolutional

I've figured out what's causing my BCLK issue. Hyper-V ends up messing up timer measurements so BCLK appears lower than it actually is. I guess for "verification" purposes, it will be impossible to show the true OC as the apparent bus speed is fluctuating so much, so VM is a no go. Oh well, its only an hour I'd have to go without my rig. Yeah I'm lazy lol.


----------



## NYD117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> *EDIT*: running gsat ATM 75% done and okay so far. When you tightened things up did you manually set a dram clock period? I believe this might hold things a bit more constsnt between boots. Just a guess, but seems empirically true on x99 and z170, today.


I've left dram clock period on auto. Have you noticed something specific when setting this to a value? I don't seem to have any problems posting or difference in performance whenever I boot till now.

*EDIT:*Also just for the records I used 1.42 initial and 1.39 eventual in the past. I also noticed that these DIMMs don't like 1.4 eventual with the specific configuration (I get bd even with 1.42 initial) while they sit happily with 1.39 and pass the tests I have already mentioned. I tested 1.39v initial too and in the end they seem to love it. So I am running 1.39 from boot and in OS. This RAM is very picky.

Also I would like to ask you guys how well does mint handle your cache overclock. In order for me to run cache at 4200 without problems in *windows* I have disabled c6 state and I am sitting at 1.22v currently stable. Without disabling c6 I get shut downs starting from 40x uncore and up no matter the voltage(*windows*). I understand why this is happening but I would like to ask how are things for you in mint since when I tried to boot through a live USB to run GSAT, I get a shutdown a while after before I put CPU under load. I had to dial down my cache overclock to test RAM with GSAT. Mint doesn't handle c-states the same as windows or what?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYD117*
> 
> I've left dram clock period on auto. Have you noticed something specific when setting this to a value? I don't seem to have any problems posting or difference in performance whenever I boot till now.
> 
> Also I would like to ask you guys how well does mint handle your cache overclock. In order for me to run cache at 4200 without problems in *windows* I have disabled c6 state and I am sitting at 1.22v currently stable. Without disabling c6 I get shut downs starting from 40x uncore and up no matter the voltage(*windows*). I understand why this is happening but I would like to ask how are things for you in mint since when I tried to boot through a live USB to run GSAT, I get a shutdown a while after before I put CPU under load. I had to dial down my cache overclock to test RAM with GSAT. Mint doesn't handle c-states the same as windows or what?


Mint requires a fraction more stability than Windows in general, it's possible that lower power states in Mint could unearth instability with cache where Windows does not. I say this as I've experienced it myself.

Stress app however as a memory stresser does not stress cache in any meaningful sense, it's possible to run the test with fairly unstable cache in tow and have no problems.


----------



## NYD117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Mint requires a fraction more stability than Windows in general, it's possible that lower power states in Mint could unearth instability with cache where Windows does not. I say this as I've experienced it myself.
> 
> Stress app however as a memory stresser does not stress cache in any meaningful sense, it's possible to run the test with fairly unstable cache in tow and have no problems.


This seems pretty weird because In windows I have not found a way to make uncore show me any stability problems with stress testing, gaming or daily usage. And in mint it wasn't just unstable it committed suicide.









I'll try to actually install mint on a drive and see how it goes though I doubt this should make a difference.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYD117*
> 
> This seems pretty weird because In windows I have not found a way to make uncore show me any stability problems with stress testing, gaming or daily usage. And in mint it wasn't just unstable it committed suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try to actually install mint on a drive and see how it goes though I doubt this should make a difference.


If it's only at idle there's not a lot else it could be. You can try disabling C3 reporting, or more drastically reduce the uncore overclock or increase your offset. The sudden shut down is a trait of FIVR as far as I'm aware, the first time I experienced it I too thought it seemed fairly ominous


----------



## NYD117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If it's only at idle there's not a lot else it could be. You can try disabling C3 reporting, or more drastically reduce the uncore overclock or increase your offset.


I'll give it a shot with disabled c-states to check this issue further when I install Mint on a drive.

I wanted to ask you guys your uncore and c-state configurations when you're using a linux distro, like in this case Mint, just for reference. Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYD117*
> 
> I've left dram clock period on auto. Have you noticed something specific when setting this to a value? I don't seem to have any problems posting or difference in performance whenever I boot till now.
> 
> *EDIT:*Also just for the records I used 1.42 initial and 1.39 eventual in the past. I also noticed that these DIMMs don't like 1.4 eventual with the specific configuration (I get bd even with 1.42 initial) while they sit happily with 1.39 and pass the tests I have already mentioned. I tested 1.39v initial too and in the end they seem to love it. So I am running 1.39 from boot and in OS. This RAM is very picky.
> 
> Also I would like to ask you guys how well does mint handle your cache overclock. In order for me to run cache at 4200 without problems in *windows* I have disabled c6 state and I am sitting at 1.22v currently stable. Without disabling c6 I get shut downs starting from 40x uncore and up no matter the voltage(*windows*). I understand why this is happening but I would like to ask how are things for you in mint since when I tried to boot through a live USB to run GSAT, I get a shutdown a while after before I put CPU under load. I had to dial down my cache overclock to test RAM with GSAT. Mint doesn't handle c-states the same as windows or what?


with the clock period set, any settings left on auto (like RTLs in my case) seem to remain consistent across time... less drift maybe? on x99 use 13, on z170 use 24.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYD117*
> 
> I'll give it a shot with disabled c-states to check this issue further when I install Mint on a drive.
> 
> I wanted to ask you guys your uncore and c-state configurations when you're using a linux distro, like in this case Mint, just for reference. Thanks


I leave the cache and cache voltage the same when switching between W10 and Mint. But I do not have a very high cache clock going in (41 at most times). I have only tested up to 4250 cache while on mint (125 strap ram at 3000) and did not notice a problem. As scone said, HCI memtest probably works the cache harder than GSAT. Gotta run a couple of hours of AID64 with just the cache stress selected... usually shakes out cache issues.

_______________
edit

think I've tighted up about as much as possible on this 3200c14TZ 32GB kit without raising the vdimm further.... (gotta try tho







)
4.7/4.1 adaptive


----------



## dhaine

I was able to lower to 1.45 Dram voltage with 3600 c16-18-18-35-1

dhaine - i7 [email protected] - ASrock z170 OC formula - 4.8/4.8 - gskill 4x4 3200c16 kit @ 3600Mhz C16-18-18-35-1T - DRAM1.448v - [email protected] [email protected] 400%



3600 c13 with 1.57 was nice but performance lost seems very minor with aida64 bench, lost only 2mb read and 2ns latency, so i'm very happy with this now and feel more safe


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhaine*
> 
> I was able to lower to 1.45 Dram voltage with 3600 c16-18-18-35-1
> 
> dhaine - i7 [email protected] - ASrock z170 OC formula - 4.8/4.8 - gskill 4x4 3200c16 kit @ 3600Mhz C16-18-18-35-1T - DRAM1.448v - [email protected] [email protected] 400%
> 
> 
> 
> 3600 c13 with 1.57 was nice but performance lost seems very minor with aida64 bench, lost only 2mb read and 2ns latency, so i'm very happy with this now and feel more safe


Thanks, will add shortly







. Our first Asrock result!


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> with the clock period set, any settings left on auto (like RTLs in my case) seem to remain consistent across time... less drift maybe? on x99 use 13, on z170 use 24.


Each CLK period value corresponds to a DRAM ratio, with 1 being the lowest DRAM ratio. The CLK period setting forces the timing set of a given ratio, to the applied ratio (or they can be matched up).


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> No worrries.
> 
> SA and IO voltages (Z170) scale pretty well in auto for the most part. If you're stable at the timings used now then the memory wasn't stable before. Using the test methods provided in the OP will get you closer to being stable before encountering the issues you were seeing when playing games)


Yeah it must be like that. So right now I use SA/IO on Auto, as you say it seems to scale pretty well - not applaying to much voltage.

I want to use tha google stress test that should be the best, I have put Linux Mint on a thumbdrive (USB Memory), but it wont load into Linux.
Every time I come to the what it's called? screen where I can choose to load the 64 bit or compability mode it just wen black. I can see it trying to acces my thumbdrive as it's flashing but nothing more im afraid!

Thanks again mate, for your answer


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Each CLK period value corresponds to a DRAM ratio, with 1 being the lowest DRAM ratio. The CLK period setting forces the timing set of a given ratio, to the applied ratio (or they can be matched up).


Hej Raja!

You are not thinking about doing a guide for memory timing by any chance ?
I think it would help out a lot, atleast for us thats not so good at understanding those things









E.x how you calculate different values if you example set this to that, that must also follow. You got the idea, whats the proper thing to do and whats not


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Yeah it must be like that. So right now I use SA/IO on Auto, as you say it seems to scale pretty well - not applaying to much voltage.
> 
> I want to use tha google stress test that should be the best, I have put Linux Mint on a thumbdrive (USB Memory), but it wont load into Linux.
> Every time I come to the what it's called? screen where I can choose to load the 64 bit or compability mode it just wen black. I can see it trying to acces my thumbdrive as it's flashing but nothing more im afraid!
> 
> Thanks again mate, for your answer


Might take a while to load on a pen drive. It will go blank initially whilst loading (assuming it's installed correctly). RE SA/IO it's not so much on how little the voltage applied is. more that it's fairly ballpark on how much is normally required for stability (depending on the amount of memory installed & the CPU)


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Might take a while to load on a pen drive. It will go blank initially whilst loading (assuming it's installed correctly). RE SA/IO it's not so much on how little the voltage applied is. more that it's fairly ballpark on how much is normally required for stability (depending on the amount of memory installed & the CPU)


Alright pen drive and not thumbdrive, thanks









So then I just maybe have to wait a little longer, think I was waiting about a minute, maybe takes longer then.

I first set my IO/SA at 1.0V but Bios at 1.15 IO and about 1.25 SA!
Have read in this thread people says it pretty much best to have it at Auto, if it not go to high, and those values seems perfectly good I belive.
Someone said that IO/SA must scale properly, so the SA must then have a little more volt then the IO. So it's best to leave it at auto.

Thanks again, will report back about the pen drive


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Alright pen drive and not thumbdrive, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So then I just maybe have to wait a little longer, think I was waiting about a minute, maybe takes longer then.
> 
> I first set my IO/SA at 1.0V but Bios at 1.15 IO and about 1.25 SA!
> Have read in this thread people says it pretty much best to have it at Auto, if it not go to high, and those values seems perfectly good I belive.
> 
> Thanks again, will report back about the pen drive


Sounds stupid I know, but check to see if it's flashing to indicate activity. If the system stability is marginal enough it can hang before hand off there as well, in which case you'll be waiting all day lol.

Only really need to touch those voltages if experiencing instability, beyond 3600 things can get heavy and you may need to make adjustments


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sounds stupid I know, but check to see if it's flashing to indicate activity. If the system stability is marginal enough it can hang before hand off there as well, in which case you'll be waiting all day lol.
> 
> Only really need to touch those voltages if experiencing instability, beyond 3600 things can get heavy and you may need to make adjustments


Oops I should have update my sig on how my rig is set up. I have the RAM at 2666hz now, I think it's what I need as I have read thats good enough for my plattform. And the mem are 2666hz anyway, so I use it like that and have tried to tighten the timings a little









And yes mate, the pendrive are flashing for about 5 seconds maybe after I have chose what parameters to load, then it stops. So I guess something must be wrong. I will test loading it with my comp at default, just to see if it will work


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Hej Raja!
> 
> You are not thinking about doing a guide for memory timing by any chance ?


Not at this time, sorry.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> I think it would help out a lot, atleast for us thats not so good at understanding those things
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E.x how you calculate different values if you example set this to that, that must also follow. You got the idea, whats the proper thing to do and whats not


Most of the stuff posted for DDR3 translates to DDR4, apart from bank groups obviously. Writing technical functions in an understandable way for laymen is no small feat, so I would have to see value in the work - most of the time it leaves people more confused. Couple that with how little difference memory tweaking makes to real world performance and I struggle to justify the time it would take. With multiple duties ongoing, low-value guides are not high on my agenda. I'm usually compelled to write something in-depth if there is a topic that has an air of excitement about it. Currently, nothing about DRAM is _that_ exciting.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Currently, nothing about DRAM is _that_ exciting.


Except trying to run Z170 kits on X99.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Each CLK period value corresponds to a DRAM ratio, with 1 being the lowest DRAM ratio. The CLK period setting forces the timing set of a given ratio, to the applied ratio (or they can be matched up).


ah.. so that might explain why setting a value brought RTLs back close to eachother? So, IYO is it worth setting?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Except trying to run Z170 kits on X99.


don't need a guide for that... a good single malt does it.


----------



## Praz

Hello

A couple of the more uncommonly used memory dividers on X99.

Praz--R5E-i7 5960X @4.4/4.2---2600MHz-16GB-C14-14-14-38-1T----1.23v---VCCIN 1.850v--SA 0.850v---HCI----1500%



Praz--R5E-i7 5960X @4.4/4.1---2933MHz-16GB-C16-18-18-39-1T----1.30v---VCCIN 1.950v--SA 0.90v---HCI----1150%



Praz--R5E-i7 5960X @4.4/4.1---2933MHz-16GB-C16-18-18-39-1T----1.30v---VCCIN 1.950v--SA 0.90v---Stressapptest----2 Hours


----------



## Jpmboy

Praz - are you adjusting Transmitter DQ or just "auto"


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Praz - are you adjusting Transmitter DQ or just "auto"


Hello

DQ, DQS, CLK and CTL. CTL doesn't usually need to be moved much from default.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> DQ, DQS, CLK and CTL. CTL doesn't usually need to be moved much from default.


"usually"


----------



## Silent Scone

I don't envisage we'll have many 2933 results posted







Cheers Praz


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> "usually"


Hello

CTL is touchy and has a small range of usable adjustment. If setting Command Rate to 2N the default value is most always optimally set.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I don't envisage we'll have many 2933 results posted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Praz


Hello

With most CPUs 2933 takes a bit of work.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> With most CPUs 2933 takes a bit of work.


Still good to know it can be done. 2800 is probably more obtainable on 100 strap for most I think, but still not one of the stronger ones.

The GSKILL C14 bin that a few have been using are really strong. Really good memory kit and no work was really required to get them to straight 13s at 1N 3200 on X99.


----------



## michael-ocn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it seems to read like 5C lower than aid64 in windows? 360 rad intake is right in front of a window tho... flow routes from the last block to a 4x420 rad floor-standing rad to a 360 on the back of the bench. yeah - coolant temp is 18C right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh - that's Mint running off an SSD.


Core temp reading are lower in linux vs windows for me too. I've been wondering if it's because there are more background task nibbling at the cpu on windows or if the reading is simply off on linux?


----------



## llantant

Hey guys.

I have seemed to run into a random BSOD while idle last night. I set my pc to upload a bunch of stuff my NAS drive and let it idle until I woke up. Approx 2 hours into it I had a BSOD restart.

The Bccode was 3b which with Sandybridge was said to be Memory related.

I have never had any issues with my OC, 4.7 is stable even in Prime95 at 1.37v.

The only thing I have changed is my RAM, in which case, I lowered the SA from Auto to 1.25v (Auto says 1.288 in bios, and me setting 1.25 says 1.264) and VCCIO to 1.2.

Also one other thing is I had C states set to AUTO instead of Disabled.

I have set C States to disabled and also SA and VCCIO voltage back to Auto. My pc has been uploading to my NAS for the last 3 hours with no issues so far.

Any idea what it could have been? Surely it cannot be the OC because no matter what I do I cannot replicate it.

I have done alot of stability testing with this OC. Couple of hours Blend 90% RAM Prime95 28.7, 8 hours realbench. 50 loops x264. x265 encodes overkill mode, 2 hour stressapp. 2000% HCI memtest, AIDA 64 Memory test 6 hours and 8 hours Intel XTU memory test even 10 maximum memory Intel burn tests to test temps with my new case.

A whole lot of gaming and also handbrake encode and alot of photoshop.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Hey guys.
> 
> I have seemed to run into a random BSOD while idle last night. I set my pc to upload a bunch of stuff my NAS drive and let it idle until I woke up. Approx 2 hours into it I had a BSOD restart.
> 
> The Bccode was 3b which with Sandybridge was said to be Memory related.
> 
> I have never had any issues with my OC, 4.7 is stable even in Prime95 at 1.37v.
> 
> The only thing I have changed is my RAM, in which case, I lowered the SA from Auto to 1.25v (Auto says 1.288 in bios, and me setting 1.25 says 1.264) and VCCIO to 1.2.
> 
> Also one other thing is I had C states set to AUTO instead of Disabled.
> 
> I have set C States to disabled and also SA and VCCIO voltage back to Auto. My pc has been uploading to my NAS for the last 3 hours with no issues so far.
> 
> Any idea what it could have been? Surely it cannot be the OC because no matter what I do I cannot replicate it.
> 
> I have done alot of stability testing with this OC. Couple of hours Blend 90% RAM Prime95 28.7, 8 hours realbench. 50 loops x264. x265 encodes overkill mode, 2 hour stressapp. 2000% HCI memtest, AIDA 64 Memory test 6 hours and 8 hours Intel XTU memory test even 10 maximum memory Intel burn tests to test temps with my new case.
> 
> A whole lot of gaming and also handbrake encode and alot of photoshop.


Firstly you said you'd lowered the System Agent voltage, if doing this you'd need to retest stability.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Firstly you said you'd lowered the System Agent voltage, if doing this you'd need to retest stability.


Sorry, I did. Well, I did not retest all of it, but 2 hours stressapp and 2000 hci memtest plus 50 encodes.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Sorry, I did. Well, I did not retest all of it, but 2 hours stressapp and 2000 hci memtest plus 50 encodes.


Who knows. If you cannot replicate the error leave it be. If not it may be cache related.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Who knows. If you cannot replicate the error leave it be. If not it may be cache related.


Ill let idle again tonight and see what happens. Its been idling all day and no issues, now been backing up to my nas for couple hours.

Happens again ill pull cache back to 4.5ghz.


----------



## Silent Scone

Silent Scone--X99 Deluxe--i7 5960X @4.4/4.0---3200MHz-32GB-C13-13-13-36-1T----1.4v---VCCIN 1.92v--SA 0.985v---GSAT 1 Hour


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ill let idle again tonight and see what happens. Its been idling all day and no issues, now been backing up to my nas for couple hours.
> 
> Happens again ill pull cache back to 4.5ghz.


what c-sates (if any) are enabled?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Silent Scone--X99 Deluxe--i7 5960X @4.4/4.0---3200MHz-32GB-C13-13-13-36-1T----1.4v---VCCIN 1.92v--SA 0.985v---GSAT 1 Hour
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


lol - you found 'em?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what c-sates (if any) are enabled?
> lol - you found 'em?


If 'found' is a valid way of describing bending over for Fred Chang, then yes I found them real good.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what c-sates (if any) are enabled?
> lol - you found 'em?


None were. After you said the other day about c states and adaptive I switched them to AUTO.

Now I have disabled them.

Would you guys be a bit weary of running VCCIO and SA on auto (shows 1.24 VCCIO and 1.288v in Bios)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> None were. After you said the other day about c states and adaptive I switched them to AUTO.
> 
> Now I have disabled them.
> 
> Would you guys be a bit weary of running VCCIO and SA on auto (shows 1.24 VCCIO and 1.288v in Bios)


1.288v is ok, although not sure this voltage scales at all well past 1.3v, and this much shouldn't be needed. You can always lower this if it turns out to not be the culprit. No straight fire answer for this one I'm afraid, you'll just have to test the water.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 1.288v is ok, although not sure this voltage scales at all well past 1.3v, and this much shouldn't be needed. You can always lower this if it turns out to not be the culprit. No straight fire answer for this one I'm afraid, you'll just have to test the water.


Will do. Thanks!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If 'found' is a valid way of describing bending over for Fred Chang, then yes I found them real good.











it is a good kit tho...

lol - I just spent the last few hours attaching my plow to the ATV and blower to the tractor, driveway is over 1/4Mi long







. Forecast is for 18+" this weekend. (that's like 0.5M for you metric guys).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> None were. After you said the other day about c states and adaptive I switched them to AUTO.
> Now I have disabled them.
> Would you guys be a bit weary of running VCCIO and SA on auto (shows 1.24 VCCIO and 1.288v in Bios)


auto is fine. Disabled is "definitive".
Actually, regarding VSA, my MB will run a very high value for this if left on Auto especially when running 3866 or 4000 on Ram. So far, 1.2375V has been fine for 3866, and 1.275VC for 4000. The board will push over 1.3V with 4000 ram.








Vccio of 1.2125-1.2375 as been the range I've explored so far. Auto just seems to overvolt - as expected.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is a good kit tho...
> 
> lol - I just spent the last few hours attaching my plow to the ATV and blower to the tractor, driveway is over 1/4Mi long
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Forecast is for 18+" this weekend. (that's like 0.5M for you metric guys).
> auto is fine. Disabled is "definitive".
> Actually, regarding VSA, my MB will run a very high value for this if left on Auto especially when running 3866 or 4000 on Ram. So far, 1.2375V has been fine for 3866, and 1.275VC for 4000. The board will push over 1.3V with 4000 ram.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vccio of 1.2125-1.2375 as been the range I've explored so far. Auto just seems to overvolt - as expected.


For comparison mine needs around 1.25v for 3866, auto would apply 1.23v (Z170 Deluxe). Perhaps the auto rules are slightly more aggressive for that board.

You don't have to teach me inches, I've got plenty.

Feel free to use that one (or not)

Edit, and yes they're really good sticks!

I've updated the table


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> For comparison mine needs around 1.25v for 3866, auto would apply 1.23v (Z170 Deluxe). Perhaps the auto rules are slightly more aggressive for that board.
> 
> *You don't have to teach me inches, I've got plenty.
> *
> Feel free to use that one (or not)
> 
> Edit, and yes they're really good sticks!
> 
> I've updated the table












best one I've ever heard in that context.









yeahm the lesson is, if you suspect Auto is overvolting, take control of it.


----------



## Kimir

Mine sticks are shipped, should be here Monday. Lol the shop didn't had many they are again out of stock, good thing I received the mail they were available this morning and ordered them right away on phone (something that I never do).


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is a good kit tho...
> 
> lol - I just spent the last few hours attaching my plow to the ATV and blower to the tractor, driveway is over 1/4Mi long
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Forecast is for 18+" this weekend. (that's like 0.5M for you metric guys).
> auto is fine. Disabled is "definitive".
> Actually, regarding VSA, my MB will run a very high value for this if left on Auto especially when running 3866 or 4000 on Ram. So far, 1.2375V has been fine for 3866, and 1.275VC for 4000. The board will push over 1.3V with 4000 ram.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vccio of 1.2125-1.2375 as been the range I've explored so far. Auto just seems to overvolt - as expected.


So by definitive I take it that with adaptive voltage I should have them set to disabled then?

I'll try the lower SA and see then.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> So by definitive I take it that with adaptive voltage I should have them set to disabled then?
> 
> I'll try the lower SA and see then.


I disable c-states with adaptive. Idle is already low voltage and really wouldn;t want cores to sleep and foul on wake.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I disable c-states with adaptive. Idle is already low voltage and really wouldn;t want cores to sleep and foul on wake.


Ok great. Thanks.









Reverted back to my lowered SA and VCCIO and Ill leave it idle over night. Got a feeling its C states.


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Not at this time, sorry.
> Most of the stuff posted for DDR3 translates to DDR4, apart from bank groups obviously. Writing technical functions in an understandable way for laymen is no small feat, so I would have to see value in the work - most of the time it leaves people more confused. Couple that with how little difference memory tweaking makes to real world performance and I struggle to justify the time it would take. With multiple duties ongoing, low-value guides are not high on my agenda. I'm usually compelled to write something in-depth if there is a topic that has an air of excitement about it. Currently, nothing about DRAM is _that_ exciting.


Hello Sir!

I really appreciate you took the time and answer my ramblings









Alright, thats makes perfectly sense, and I then wouldent understand much at all.
So yeah I can see why it's not on your agenda Raja, and as you say it doesent even make any real performance in real world scenario. Then I can safely just let them timings be.

If I want to try tweking them I can do it just for fun, just the way it should be, and not some obsession about say, one of a 10th of a frame in game









Better concentrate on the CPU/Mem and GPU speed









Thanks again for your clarification!


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ah.. so that might explain why setting a value brought RTLs back close to eachother? So, IYO is it worth setting?
> don't need a guide for that... a good single malt does it.


It can help stability to be on the right value or close. Too tight is more of an issue than too loose.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> It can help stability to be on the right value or close. Too tight is more of an issue than too loose.


Thanks.


----------



## shremi

Is this the kit everyone is getting good results with

I am currently on my return window for my corsair 3000 Kit CL15 .... But i dont really need the 32 GB wondering if running dual channel on X99 will hurt the overall performance of my rig ... but hey its half the price


----------



## llantant

Let my Computer finish copying to my NAS and idle all night. No issues and im back at 1.21 VCCIO and 1.275 SA. Which is what I was orginally stable with my OC.

Seems like the culprit was something to do with C states being on Auto.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Is this the kit everyone is getting good results with
> 
> I am currently on my return window for my corsair 3000 Kit CL15 .... But i dont really need the 32 GB wondering if running dual channel on X99 will hurt the overall performance of my rig ... but hey its half the price


That is the one, however can't promise you'll get the same results. You have to pay to play!

Also if not intending to use all 4 DIMM don't buy it. Although I find the premise of using dual channel on a system capable of quad hugely distressing and I beg you not to.


----------



## Desolutional

I have a weird graphics setup, so _camera images_!

G.skill Trident Z 3200MHz C16: Running at 2667MHz 14-14-14-36 1T *1.35V*. 5 hours GSAT pass. Running on X99. QVL not officially supported, yadda yadda. Does not run XMP on X99 - only Z170. Yeee here are my results. 1.35V is preliminary, will see if they scale some more at 1.40V. Oh and VCCIO is at 1.10V (anyone reading this, you don't really need to change VCCIO but I like to anyway).


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











Desolutional, i7-5820K, X99-S, 4.4/4.1, 2666MHz, C14-14-14-36-1T, 1.35V, SA: 1.03V, GSAT: 5 hours


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is a good kit tho...
> 
> lol - I just spent the last few hours attaching my plow to the *ATV and blower to the tractor*, driveway is over 1/4Mi long
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Forecast is for 18+" this weekend. (that's like 0.5M for you metric guys).


Are you a fellow farmer then?

**sorry to go off topic in here, I just noticed what you said


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Are you a fellow farmer then?
> 
> **sorry to go off topic in here, I just noticed what you said


No, he's just boasting about the need for a combine harvester as his driveway is bigger than a small island.


----------



## llantant

.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> No, he's just boasting about the need for a combine harvester as his driveway is bigger than a small island.


HAHA


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Are you a fellow farmer then?
> 
> **sorry to go off topic in here, I just noticed what you said


Horses. (and a Donkey!)


----------



## Silent Scone

I've got roughly enough room to breed half a dozen pigs on my driveway. I can imagine you and your Mrs at the weekend hiring it out and spectating Cival War reenactments lol (please don't tell me you do or I'll fall off my chair







)


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Horses. (and a Donkey!)


Awesome! I have a 200 cow Dairy farm.

www.llannantfarm.com (work in progress)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Awesome! I have a 200 cow Dairy farm.
> 
> www.llannantfarm.com (work in progress)


Kudos that's awesome


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Kudos that's awesome


Thank you.







I got a whole bunch more I need to add, problem is in my spare time im usually messing around with my OC setting etc..









Which brings me to another question. I have my VCCIO set in bios to 1.225v for my RAM OC. (this is changing it from AUTO). Now with auto I was at like 1.24v but with me setting to 1.225v it tells me in Bios and also in HWinfor that I have 1.272v.

So does this mean I am infact using 1.272v?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Awesome! I have a 200 cow Dairy farm.
> 
> www.llannantfarm.com (work in progress)


I know that's a full days work! Very cool.
Collie pups? Love 'em. We have Pembroke Corgis.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've got roughly enough room to breed half a dozen pigs on my driveway. I can imagine you and your Mrs at the weekend hiring it out and spectating Cival War reenactments lol (please don't tell me you do or I'll fall off my chair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Grab your desk... Gettysburg is nearby. Nah, I just can't get into that re-enactment krap. I'm more of a ride in Rolling Thunder kinda guy.


----------



## Silent Scone

Real nice







I did still have to hold onto the desk to get the whole aerial shot in view







. On that bombshell straying far OT lol


----------



## Jpmboy

Okay so back OT... is it just my config or does [email protected] really need close to 1.3V VSA?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Okay so back OT... is it just my config or does [email protected] really need close to 1.3V VSA?


Doubt many will have tested much around here (4000+) for stability. I need around 1.28v but I've not tested much, waiting to try more on the Impact.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I know that's a full days work! Very cool.
> Collie pups? Love 'em. We have Pembroke Corgis.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grab your desk... Gettysburg is nearby. Nah, I just can't get into that re-enactment krap. I'm more of a ride in Rolling Thunder kinda guy.


Awesome. Love a welsh corgi!









On topic question.

So if HW info says my VCCIO is 1.272v despite me having it in BIOS as 1.225v am I actually at 1.272?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Awesome. Love a welsh corgi!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On topic question.
> 
> So if HW info says my VCCIO is 1.272v despite me having it in BIOS as 1.225v am I actually at 1.272?


What does AI Suite or AIDA say


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What does AI Suite or AIDA say


It reports the same. 1.272. (Sometimes 1.264)

Also says that in bios despite it being on 1.225v

Also If i bring it down a click it says 1.24 then in AIda\hwinfo\bios.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> It reports the same. 1.272. (Sometimes 1.264)
> 
> Also says that in bios despite it being on 1.225v
> 
> Also If i bring it down a click it says 1.24 then in AIda\hwinfo\bios.


Wouldn't worry about it, whatever value maintains stability. Such is the nature of software reporting


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Wouldn't worry about it, whatever value maintains stability. Such is the nature of software reporting


Brilliant. Thanks.


----------



## JnLoader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Brilliant. Thanks.


I was thinking the same, when I sat my IO/SA myself, it shows a slightly different value in those programs, heck even my RAM do not show the same.
I was under the impression that it must work like with the cpu voltage - eaiter vdroop or vboost!

Would be good to set the IO/SA /Ram with an LLC level. But we cant, so we have to bite the bullet, eaiter back down or push on


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JnLoader*
> 
> Would be good to set the IO/SA /Ram with an LLC level. But we cant, so we have to bite the bullet, eaiter back down or push on


Hello

LLC has a single purpose which the above three voltage rails do not qualify for.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Assuming you're running the same memory frequency as you were before?


Sorry missed this post, no that was with the RAM in the sig.

I don't have old screenshots of the 3866 RAM to compare this but it shows 13600 by default.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Sorry missed this post, no that was with the RAM in the sig.
> 
> I don't have old screenshots of the 3866 RAM to compare this but it shows 13600 by default.


Then this is why your refresh value had changed. The motherboard knows well enough to adjust the interval with frequency amongst other factors most obviously including density. Some may turn their nose up at the idea, but I normally even when tightening down leave this value at default.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> I have a weird graphics setup, so _camera images_!
> 
> G.skill Trident Z 3200MHz C16: Running at 2667MHz 14-14-14-36 1T *1.35V*. 5 hours GSAT pass. Running on X99. QVL not officially supported, yadda yadda. Does not run XMP on X99 - only Z170. Yeee here are my results. 1.35V is preliminary, will see if they scale some more at 1.40V. Oh and VCCIO is at 1.10V (anyone reading this, you don't really need to change VCCIO but I like to anyway).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desolutional, i7-5820K, X99-S, 4.4/4.1, 2666MHz, C14-14-14-36-1T, 1.35V, SA: 1.03V, GSAT: 5 hours










Will add shortly, thanks


----------



## Menthol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Still good to know it can be done. 2800 is probably more obtainable on 100 strap for most I think, but still not one of the stronger ones.
> 
> The GSKILL C14 bin that a few have been using are really strong. Really good memory kit and no work was really required to get them to straight 13s at 1N 3200 on X99.


Ther Ripjaw V series 32GB CL16 kit I have gets a litter higher AIDA bandwidth scores with looser timings than this TZ at CL13 but is was a real struggle to get that kit to play on X99 and never stable, real surprised that this new kit is so easy to set up on X99 and the current prices for dram makes it easier to play

Scone, one of the more interesting threads you have here, much appreciate you taking the time, memory is a real mystery for me and probably most people, takes so much time experimenting for one person, one item where the more the merrier applies

Thank you


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Ther Ripjaw V series 32GB CL16 kit I have gets a litter higher AIDA bandwidth scores with looser timings than this TZ at CL13 but is was a real struggle to get that kit to play on X99 and never stable, real surprised that this new kit is so easy to set up on X99 and the current prices for dram makes it easier to play
> 
> Scone, one of the more interesting threads you have here, much appreciate you taking the time, memory is a real mystery for me and probably most people, takes so much time experimenting for one person, one item where the more the merrier applies
> 
> Thank you


it's a mystery wrapped in a shinny object for me...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Ther Ripjaw V series 32GB CL16 kit I have gets a litter higher AIDA bandwidth scores with looser timings than this TZ at CL13 but is was a real struggle to get that kit to play on X99 and never stable, real surprised that this new kit is so easy to set up on X99 and the current prices for dram makes it easier to play
> 
> Scone, one of the more interesting threads you have here, much appreciate you taking the time, memory is a real mystery for me and probably most people, takes so much time experimenting for one person, one item where the more the merrier applies
> 
> Thank you


You're welcome bud. I can't take credit for the idea, but we're lucky in the respect we also have people active who have a grasp on these things. Beyond seeing what individuals are running on a day to day basis, it's a good way of trickling some of the more important laws into discussion with the input from more experienced users (they know who they are).

Doesn't need to be overbearing and only help to shed light on the subject! There isn't an enthusiast clique / group in existence that really has a grasp on the memory subsystem, so info from the right source is crucial


----------



## jasjeet

Any tips on memory OC?
Im running a temporary CPU, pentium G4400 until i get a 6700k and Corsair CL14 2400Mhz RAM.

I tried SA 1.12v, and VCCIO 1.15v, VDimm 1.3v, 16-16 2T timings at 2666Mhz with 100Mhz bclk but wouldnt even boot.
Crap RAM or just crap IMC on the cheap G4400?

Asus Z170I itx board
Corsair 2x8gb LPX 2400mhz cl14 1.2v ddr4 kit


----------



## JnLoader

Memory Timings Update Rumbling!

For those interested. I actually got the timings to work at 15 -15-15 - 35 now, even with a good gpu overclock.
So in the end im pretty happy. Dont know what went wrong when those timings instantly hang my gpu - even with a small Oc in Heaven/Valley benchmark.

But now I have a healthy Oc and everything seems stable


----------



## llantant

llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.5---3733Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.35v---VCCIO 1.225v----SA 1.2375v---Stressapptest----2 Hours



What do you guys think? And where could I go from here?

Also, As I said above I put my vccio\sa to what I set it in BIOS but it does differ. Was not sure which one to include in the Validation Line for the graph. I did include a screenie of it in BIOS in the pic though.


----------



## jasjeet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jasjeet*
> 
> Any tips on memory OC?
> Im running a temporary CPU, pentium G4400 until i get a 6700k and Corsair CL14 2400Mhz RAM.
> 
> I tried SA 1.12v, and VCCIO 1.15v, VDimm 1.3v, 16-16 2T timings at 2666Mhz with 100Mhz bclk but wouldnt even boot.
> Crap RAM or just crap IMC on the cheap G4400?
> 
> Asus Z170I itx board
> Corsair 2x8gb LPX 2400mhz cl14 1.2v ddr4 kit


I still couldnt get 2666Mhz to boot, maybe i need to use 125 bclk? Im not sure if thats possible with a pentium G4400?

But i managed to boot and bench 2400Mhz 11-11-11-31 trfc 312 2T at 1.35v VDimm, 1.1v SA, 1.0v IO.
Considering it can easily boot that, problem is likely CPU for higher ram freqs?

2400Mhz CL11, pretty good for gaming? Any point pushing frequency with those timings? Ill try tighten further.


----------



## llantant

A bump to 1.36v on DRAM votlage and it seems I can get my timings down to 17/17/37 2T.



Currently stability testing and stressapp running fine. Will report back when finalized.

my vccio and sa is bugging me a little though. I set it to 1.225 and it seems to just put 1.27v through it. Is it really worth taking notice of? I cannot go lower than 1.225 set in bios.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jasjeet*
> 
> Any tips on memory OC?
> Im running a temporary CPU, pentium G4400 until i get a 6700k and Corsair CL14 2400Mhz RAM.
> 
> I tried SA 1.12v, and VCCIO 1.15v, VDimm 1.3v, 16-16 2T timings at 2666Mhz with 100Mhz bclk but wouldnt even boot.
> Crap RAM or just crap IMC on the cheap G4400?
> 
> Asus Z170I itx board
> Corsair 2x8gb LPX 2400mhz cl14 1.2v ddr4 kit


Haven't played with non K or Pentium variants so wouldn't be able to help you. I doubt many are pushing memory on them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.5---3733Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.35v---VCCIO 1.225v----SA 1.2375v---Stressapptest----2 Hours
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think? And where could I go from here?
> 
> Also, As I said above I put my vccio\sa to what I set it in BIOS but it does differ. Was not sure which one to include in the Validation Line for the graph. I did include a screenie of it in BIOS in the pic though.


Looks good. No chance of 1T?


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Haven't played with non K or Pentium variants so wouldn't be able to help you. I doubt many are pushing memory on them.
> Looks good. No chance of 1T?


Babysteps


----------



## peroni

2x 8GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000Mhz C15 running at 3255Mhz C14-16-16-36-1T with 1.385v
These are my optimized subtimings.



I could also get it up to 3430Mhz with C16-18-18-38-2T but it would return lower numbers in AIDA.

Pretty happy considering how cheap these are


----------



## llantant

Seeing as I have had years of using HCI memtest and never thought of throwing them a few dollars until recently. I purchased the Deluxe version as well as the Pro Version (I then found out that the deluxe version included the pro version, oh well, justice I suppose







)

I thought I would have a go at the bootable memtest. I figured I can play about with timing etc.. without worrying about corrupting my Windows Install.

Using 3733Mhz 17/17/17/37 2T @ 1.36v (I tried 1T but it was not stable, errors withing the first 30 seconds I think I need to up some voltage somewhere but dont want to right now).



Thing is. I left that for over 12 hours to do almost 400%. It recommends 1000 for a thorough test!!! I got bored and finished there. Ill stressapp or windows HCI Memtest for chart.

It does seem like a good application in order to get a rough idea of stability without corrupting OS though.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Seeing as I have had years of using HCI memtest and never thought of throwing them a few dollars until recently. I purchased the Deluxe version as well as the Pro Version (I then found out that the deluxe version included the pro version, oh well, justice I suppose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> I thought I would have a go at the bootable memtest. I figured I can play about with timing etc.. without worrying about corrupting my Windows Install.
> 
> Using 3733Mhz 17/17/17/37 2T @ 1.36v (I tried 1T but it was not stable, errors withing the first 30 seconds I think I need to up some voltage somewhere but dont want to right now).
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is. I left that for over 12 hours to do almost 400%. It recommends 1000 for a thorough test!!! I got bored and finished there. Ill stressapp or windows HCI Memtest for chart.
> 
> It does seem like a good application in order to get a rough idea of stability without corrupting OS though.


Given the coverage time, I would substitute Stress App Test in place of HCI DOS. 1T at that frequency comes down to mostly the board used, the capability of the DIMM and the voltage required to get there. Try 1.4v DRAM voltage.


----------



## Kimir

Here they are!

For those who use those on x99, you used xmp or the manual way?
And those with R5E, the Samsung profile are any good with them B-die?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Here they are!
> 
> For those who use those on x99, you used xmp or the manual way?
> And those with R5E, the Samsung profile are any good with them B-die?










Enter the primary timings and voltage manually. Personally I went straight for 13-13-13-36-1T @ 1.4v

Hope they play nice for you.


----------



## llantant

Llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.5---3733Mhz-C17-17-17-37-2T----1.36v Dram---VCCIO 1.225v----SA 1.2375v---Stressapptest----2 Hours


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Given the coverage time, I would substitute Stress App Test in place of HCI DOS. 1T at that frequency comes down to mostly the board used, the capability of the DIMM and the voltage required to get there. Try 1.4v DRAM voltage.


Yeah I agree on stressapp over that. HCI DOS seemed decent to gauge initial stability though.

Will push for 1T next!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Here they are!
> 
> For those who use those on x99, you used xmp or the manual way?
> And those with R5E, the Samsung profile are any good with them B-die?


Hi Kimir - I did try the secondaries from the "New" samsung 4x8GB presets and they may have helped some.. but only the secondaries. exc;uding tRTP and FAW which I set manually.

1.4V eventual.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enter the primary timings and voltage manually. Personally I went straight for 13-13-13-36-1T @ 1.4v
> 
> Hope they play nice for you.


Roger that. I hope they play nice too.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Hi Kimir - I did try the secondaries from the "New" samsung 4x8GB presets and they may have helped some.. but only the secondaries. exc;uding tRTP and FAW which I set manually.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.4V eventual.


Thanks, I'm gonna do the same way then. Manual and see if they pass training at stock to begin with and tighten things up with your example at hand.


----------



## Silent Scone

They're keepers for sure









May have to see if I can maintain stability with higher refresh


----------



## Silent Scone

1.4v


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 1.4v
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


dude - tRTP and FAW?

wait.. wut? is that GSAT in a VM?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> dude - tRTP and FAW?
> 
> wait.. wut? is that GSAT in a VM?


lol no, this is a screenshot. I have lowered tRTP and tFAW but I'm on the limits of stability with the voltage applied, can't have all kits equal









It's pretty close, though


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol no, this is a screenshot. I have lowered tRTP and tFAW but I'm on the limits of stability with the voltage applied, can't have all kits equal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty close, though


damn good ram kit for sure.


----------



## Kimir

hugh, couldn't even get dram training to pass at stock voltage and timing. Blah, let's shoot for 1.4v and C13, all of them seen this way at least.
Dinner time, will start some HCI while I'm in win7.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> hugh, couldn't even get dram training to pass at stock voltage and timing. Blah, let's shoot for 1.4v and C13, all of them seen this way at least.
> Dinner time, will start some HCI while I'm in win7.


What UEFI are you on and board? I suppose it's no great surprise that some of them may need to be circumvented on this platform. Did you try at 2T?


----------



## Kimir

So far each dimm were ok at c14 and 1.4v when tested individually for 15mins (3 of the 4, at 3 am I decided to run GSAT with all of them).
The 4 of them gave me errors rather quickly at 1.4v, restarted with 1.41 and passed overnight test (5 hours GSAT). So, _I_ need to put 1.41v with those too, like with the Hynix that did 15-16-16 at that voltage.
14-14-14-32 1T 1.41v is not bad, just meh since those are rated C14 at 1.35, I blame my IMC here. I'll finish my individual dimm test when I get home and put up the screen I left on linux.
Note that 1.41v set in bios is in fact 1.432v on channel A/B and 1.427v on C/D measured with my Fluke DMM.

Stupid dropbox on tux, I set it to upload my screenshots automatically like on windows and it doesn't work plus it screwed my screenshot folder named in french "captures d'écran" but somehow made a copy named "captures d'Ã©ran".








I guess I chose the wrong French language on re-install of mint 17.2.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> So far each dimm were ok at c14 and 1.4v when tested individually for 15mins (3 of the 4, at 3 am I decided to run GSAT with all of them).
> The 4 of them gave me errors rather quickly at 1.4v, restarted with 1.41 and passed overnight test (5 hours GSAT). So, _I_ need to put 1.41v with those too, like with the Hynix that did 15-16-16 at that voltage.
> 14-14-14-32 1T 1.41v is not bad, just meh since those are rated C14 at 1.35, I blame my IMC here. I'll finish my individual dimm test when I get home and put up the screen I left on linux.
> Note that 1.41v set in bios is in fact 1.432v on channel A/B and 1.427v on C/D measured with my Fluke DMM.
> 
> Stupid dropbox on tux, I set it to upload my screenshots automatically like on windows and it doesn't work plus it screwed my screenshot folder named in french "captures d'écran" but somehow made a copy named "captures d'Ã©ran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I chose the wrong French language on re-install of mint 17.2.


Not all these kits will play nicely with X99, I don't think it's your IMC and more to do with the guardband on the kit considering you (and others) are running them in quad channel. GSKILL hand bin their kits so some variance will be expected in these circumstances


----------



## Pyr0

Wow, why couldn't I have seen those 3200mhz C14 kits when I was buying?
Now I'm *really* tempted to pick up a second kit of ddr4..
Even though I don't need them I've always been a sucker for tight timings and this Corsair kit isn't exactly the most tweakable lol

[edit]
darn.. I couldn't resist lol
Hopefully a 2x8GB kit of G.SKILL Trident Z DDR4 PC25600 3200MHz C14 should be here tomorrow


----------



## llantant

My above RAM OC this time for HCI Memtest 1200%. 3733Mhz 17/17/17/37/2T



6 Hour Prime Blend Just for the hell of it.









I think this OC is Stable.









Edit**

Ok I decided to go for my last OC and up to 1T. 1.36v was unstable. So I upped DRAM as per SIlent Scones suggestion to 1.38v (didnt seem to need 1.4v :thumb).



I just have one small question.

I know its all down to personal preference but in you guys opinions would you be happy running at 3733Mhz with 1.38v and also 1.225 VCCIO (still says 1.27 in BIOS tho) and 1.2375V SA voltage (still says 1.27 in BIOS also) for a 24/7 OC.

Now just a personal opinion of you guys.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> My above RAM OC this time for HCI Memtest 1200%. 3733Mhz 17/17/17/37/2T
> 
> 
> 
> 6 Hour Prime Blend Just for the hell of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this OC is Stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit**
> 
> Ok I decided to go for my last OC and up to 1T. 1.36v was unstable. So I upped DRAM as per SIlent Scones suggestion to 1.38v (didnt seem to need 1.4v :thumb).
> 
> 
> 
> I just have one small question.
> 
> I know its all down to personal preference but in you guys opinions would you be happy running at 3733Mhz with 1.38v and also 1.225 VCCIO (still says 1.27 in BIOS tho) and 1.2375V SA voltage (still says 1.27 in BIOS also) for a 24/7 OC.
> 
> Now just a personal opinion of you guys.


At 1T, yeah I'd be ok with that. For day to day you really aren't going to be blown away shooting beyond 3466. Beauty of the profile slots is you can save presets and see what values work better for your workloads


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> At 1T, yeah I'd be ok with that. For day to day you really aren't going to be blown away shooting beyond 3466. Beauty of the profile slots is you can save presets and see what values work better for your workloads


Ok brilliant. Thanks!


----------



## Kimir

Kimir --- R5E --- i7 5960X @ 4.5/4.2Ghz --- TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ @ 3200MHz C14-14-14-32-1T --- 1.41v (up to1.43v measured) --- VCCIN 1.92v LLC6 --- SA 0.985v --- GSAT 5 Hours.


At least there is that. Doesn't look any snappier than the hynix at c15 tho.
Now trying to reduce tFAW, 16 is a no go already. tFAW at 20 and tCWL at 9 is running right now (1H test). - no go either, errors when 140s remaining...

Oh yeah, on my previous entry with the HyperX Predator, VCCIN was 1.92 too.

edit:
Pr0n shot, because they are smexy!



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My above RAM OC this time for HCI Memtest 1200%. 3733Mhz 17/17/17/37/2T
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6 Hour Prime Blend Just for the hell of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this OC is Stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit**
> Ok I decided to go for my last OC and up to 1T. 1.36v was unstable. So I upped DRAM as per SIlent Scones suggestion to 1.38v (didnt seem to need 1.4v :thumb).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just have one small question.
> I know its all down to personal preference but in you guys opinions would you be happy running at 3733Mhz *with 1.38v and also 1.225 VCCIO (still says 1.27 in BIOS tho) and 1.2375V SA voltage (still says 1.27 in BIOS also) for a 24/7 OC.
> Now just a personal opinion of you guys.*


I'm running a little higher vdimm 24/7... just my









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Kimir --- R5E --- i7 5960X @ 4.5/4.2Ghz --- TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ @ 3200MHz C14-14-14-32-1T --- 1.41v (up to1.43v measured) --- VCCIN 1.92v LLC6 --- SA 0.985v --- GSAT 5 Hours.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> At least there is that. Doesn't look any snappier than the hynix at c15 tho.
> Now trying to reduce tFAW, 16 is a no go already. tFAW at 20 and tCWL at 9 is running right now (1H test). - no go either, errors when 140s remaining...
> 
> Oh yeah, on my previous entry with the HyperX Predator, VCCIN was 1.92 too.
> 
> edit:
> Pr0n shot, because they are smexy!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


They are indeed very nice looking sticks! Kimir - did you set Dram clock period to 13?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> They are indeed very nice looking sticks! Kimir - did you set Dram clock period to 13?


Yeah, like with the hynix, it's set on the profile. Loaded the 4x8GB Samsung 3200 1.5v and it gave me what you see in timing config. except tRFC that was at 350.
I might have failed my screen edit tho, the tREFI on the GSAT run was at 22066.

tFAW doesn't want to play nice either, even 20 fail. I'm trying with tCWL at 9 and leaving tFAW at 24.

I booted on windows to see what number I could get on Aida with cache at 4.4, did a 1H core+fpu+cache while afk dinner while I was on it.

Good thing that I have 32GB (again) now, I can open 50 tabs on chrome and not running outta ram.


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks @Kimir, have added.

May be worth pointing out since you've come from a 4x4GB kit, retest your cache stability. If it was marginal enough before you may need to make a small bump in voltage with the increase density.

Edit: Sounds like you've ran 32GB before so can ignore the above


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks @Kimir, have added.
> 
> May be worth pointing out since you've come from a 4x4GB kit, retest your cache stability. If it was marginal enough before you may need to make a small bump in voltage with the increase density.
> 
> Edit: Sounds like you've ran 32GB before so can ignore the above


Thanks.
Will re-test my cache for sure, since I had issues (after 3h cap on Aida) with running 44 and dram at 3200 with the hynix recently, so I was running 2666 since that happened.
I'm set to 42 on cache for daily tho, 1.21v measured at 42 is fine, 44 requiring 1.28v+. I should try 43, since I never did. lol

last time I had 32GB was with my 3930K on the fractal rig of my sig, still there, on my back completely teared down, waiting for watercooling parts that need replacement (junk black QDC among other things).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Thanks.
> Will re-test my cache for sure, since I had issues (after 3h cap on Aida) with running 44 and dram at 3200 with the hynix recently, so I was running 2666 since that happened.
> I'm set to 42 on cache for daily tho, 1.21v measured at 42 is fine, 44 requiring 1.28v+. I should try 43, since I never did. lol
> 
> last time I had 32GB was with my 3930K on the fractal rig of my sig, still there, on my back completely teared down, waiting for watercooling parts that need replacement (junk black QDC among other things).


Ah ok, honestly a couple of hours of AIDA will tell you a great deal. It depends how close you narrowed your uncore down.

For instance I could lap AIDA with no issues with 4x4GB 3200 CAS 14 with uncore at 1.1v, but running 4x8GB required me to up that to 1.13v with an additional 20mv for 1.15v for good measure. You've just passed an hour in the above screenshot so it's safe to say you're close if not ok as you are.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Yeah, like with the hynix, it's set on the profile. Loaded the 4x8GB Samsung 3200 1.5v and it gave me what you see in timing config. except tRFC that was at 350.
> I might have failed my screen edit tho, the tREFI on the GSAT run was at 22066.
> 
> tFAW doesn't want to play nice either, even 20 fail. I'm trying with tCWL at 9 and leaving tFAW at 24.
> 
> I booted on windows to see what number I could get on Aida with cache at 4.4, did a 1H core+fpu+cache while afk dinner while I was on it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing that I have 32GB (again) now, I can open 50 tabs on chrome and not running outta ram.


nice! 32gb... mint in a VM runs really well too.
Are you actuaslly running a higher cacheV than Vcore in that shot?








(ps: I liked that one desktop you had a while ago.







)


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> nice! 32gb... mint in a VM runs really well too.
> Are you actuaslly running a higher cacheV than Vcore in that shot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (ps: I liked that one desktop you had a while ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Yes I do, since my 44 cache need that voltage.
which one? I have so many in loop


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Yes I do, since my 44 cache need that voltage.
> which one? I have so many in loop


the VERY distracting one(s).


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the VERY distracting one(s).


Oh that one..








Well, on DRAM talk, seems like even tWCL won't work at 9, and lowering tRFC won't do too. So my previous GSAT run is pretty much what I can do. Now I'll have to see if my cache will be fine with 3200 again. Testing with 4.3Ghz for the first time.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Oh that one..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, on DRAM talk, seems like even tWCL won't work at 9, and lowering tRFC won't do too. So my previous GSAT run is pretty much what I can do. Now I'll have to see if my cache will be fine with 3200 again. Testing with 4.3Ghz for the first time.


post an asrock TC snip plz.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> post an asrock TC snip plz.


It's in here or here.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> It's in here or here.


yeah - so any chance the instability is driven by cache? drop down to 40 or 41 and under 1.2V vcache, try c13 train @ 1.425, run at 1.4V +/- ?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - so any chance the instability is driven by cache? drop down to 40 or 41 and under 1.2V vcache, try c13 train @ 1.425, run at 1.4V +/- ?


Nah, I did the test with my cache at 4.2 that passed GSAT for 5h. So those secondary are just no go. No surprise since I need 1.41v just to run xmp timing.
C13 train at 1.4 just fine. I can even boot windows with timing like yours, it's just not stable.

GSAT fail even faster, less than a minute and I'm getting errors. Used up to 1.45v with C13, was still not ok.

I'm always able to train at lower voltage that I am stable, so I don't bother setting training and eventual differently, I just set the same voltage on both.
After that GSAT stable I tried reducing individually the tFAW to 16, then 19, 20, 22 and it was failing the quick 15 mins test. Reducing tCWL took a little longer to catch the instability, same thing with tRFC.
For giggle I did that too


----------



## Jpmboy

eh, each time we buy something it's a lottery ticket for sure.
When I lower Faw and tRTP it usually needs 20+mV vdimm to stay stable... just sayin'


----------



## error-id10t

Too much X99 talk now, need more Z170 owners!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Too much X99 talk now, need more Z170 owners!


Yes, sadly the slow uptake for various reasons has contributed to that. That and users normally like to explore core stability and memory is normally almost secondary, sometimes not at all.

X99 is just longer in the tooth, so more users are comfortable dialing in memory to more extent


----------



## llantant

Llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.5---3600Mhz-C17-17-17-37-1T----1.36v---SA Auto --- VCCIO Auto---HCI 2000%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.5---3600Mhz-C17-17-17-37-1T----1.36v---SA Auto --- VCCIO Auto---HCI 2000%
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Very nice, and 1.36V. cool.

question - why is tRFC so high?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Very nice, and 1.36V. cool.
> 
> question - why is tRFC so high?


The auto rules set tRFC quite high above 3466 on the Deluxe also. I struggled to bring it down at 3866 even at 2T actually.

Need to get the Impact plumbed in see what can be done there


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The auto rules set tRFC quite high above 3466 on the Deluxe also. I struggled to bring it down at 3866 even at 2T actually.
> 
> Need to get the Impact plumbed in see what can be done there


not plumbed yet? tisk-tisk.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Very nice, and 1.36V. cool.
> 
> question - why is tRFC so high?


Auto. I'm only at the playing with the basics right now!!

Should I lower it? Where to start?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> not plumbed yet? tisk-tisk.


Currently I have nothing to stick it on, waiting for Fractal to release something, but I may have to speed things up a little makeshift style


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Auto. I'm only at the playing with the basics right now!!
> 
> Should I lower it? Where to start?


What sticks you have...?
Try showing SPD in your SPD window in your SS, if you can.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> What sticks you have...?
> Try showing SPD in your SPD window in your SS, if you can.


I have these

http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c17d-16gtz

G skill tridentz 3600 17/18/18/38

I also have them stable at 3766 17/17/17/37 2t


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Auto. I'm only at the playing with the basics right now!!
> 
> Should I lower it? Where to start?


I'd try 390(?). That's what mine default to on auto with 3866 though I'm only using 8GB, maybe that's a reason.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> I'd try 390(?). That's what mine default to on auto with 3866 though I'm only using 8GB, maybe that's a reason.


same here with 8GB.


----------



## Menthol

same here with 4 sticks, maybe it's the 8GB modules vs 4GB modules


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> I have these
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c17d-16gtz
> 
> G skill tridentz 3600 17/18/18/38
> 
> I also have them stable at 3766 17/17/17/37 2t


Ah nice.
Can you look underneath the Heatspreaders from both sides & tell me if you got Single Sided or Double sided sticks..?

First thing to do when going for any RAM OC is to set Command Rate to 1T. As others have pointed out, start from tRFC around 390. Good sets can do around, 350 I think. If those are B-die, then we can talk about lower.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Ah nice.
> Can you look underneath the Heatspreaders from both sides & tell me if you got Single Sided or Double sided sticks..?
> 
> First thing to do when going for any RAM OC is to set Command Rate to 1T. As others have pointed out, start from tRFC around 390. Good sets can do around, 350 I think. If those are B-die, then we can talk about lower.


Ok great, I will have a look later today!

Yes I have CR at 1T aswell.


----------



## Kimir

2T sure is easier, did an hour of SAT with it a 1.38v compared to 1.41 at 1T.
Since my IMC doesn't like 3200 that much (managed to screw my win8.1 again, yikes), I made another test with 2666C11 (5h SAT) and running 2800C12 right now too.


----------



## Silent Scone

The Impact VIII makes everything else seem like it's standing still in terms of memory. Being handed 4000 and 4133 on a plate at 1N here and I'm not sure if I'm coming or going with what results to aim for first. Childs play with the right memory


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> same here with 4 sticks, *maybe it's the 8GB modules* vs 4GB modules


that's probably the reason.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Ah nice.
> Can you look underneath the Heatspreaders from both sides & tell me if you got Single Sided or Double sided sticks..?
> 
> First thing to do when going for any RAM OC is to set Command Rate to 1T. As others have pointed out, start from tRFC around 390. Good sets can do around, 350 I think. If those are B-die, then we can talk about lower.


Looks like they are one sided but I am unsure. It seems like I can see the memory on one side but the other side seems to have like a foam type material there.

I have taken some pics and will post them if you like.


----------



## Strife21

Guys I need help on running HCI, I have a 6600 so I know I need to run 4 instances of it. However how do I determine much memory do I allocate to each instance? It wont let me use more the 2900mb on each one or I get a message saying windows wont let it.

I have attached a pic.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Guys I need help on running HCI, I have a 6600 so I know I need to run 4 instances of it. However how do I determine much memory do I allocate to each instance? It wont let me use more the 2900mb on each one or I get a message saying windows wont let it.
> 
> I have attached a pic.


There was a similar question posted a couple of pages back. I cannot for the life of me remember what they done though. Either go back some posts or someone will chime in to help I am sure.


----------



## Kimir

Sorry, some more X99...

Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 2666Mhz C11-11-11-26 1T --- 1.36v --- SA 0.977v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- GSAT 5H


Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 2800Mhz C12-12-12-28 1T --- 1.38v --- SA 0.977v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- GSAT 6H


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> There was a similar question posted a couple of pages back. I cannot for the life of me remember what they done though. Either go back some posts or someone will chime in to help I am sure.


I went back 30 pages and didn't see anything. I hope someone can answer.


----------



## Kimir

Isn't that a limitation of the free version?


----------



## llantant

Apologies.

It was in the sky lake overclock thread.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/5280#post_24799441

Here.

On my phone currently so can't link exact post but it's on that page.

Praz used 2570 per or if you have pro you can go a little higher than that as error stated in the post.


----------



## llantant

Llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.5---3733Mhz-C17-17-17-37-1T----1.4v--VCCIO 1.21v----SA 1.25v---Stressapptest----1 Hour



This Mem OC is shaping up nicely. Ive set SA on 1.25v and it seems to be holding nicely. I was orginally put off with purple writing in my BIOS though!!

1.4v DRAM also changed purple









oh well.

I would like to start with this TRAS as you guys mentioned. Just start decreasing and see what happens ?









*edit

Also 1.4v dram ok for 24/7??


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Guys I need help on running HCI, I have a 6600 so I know I need to run 4 instances of it. However how do I determine much memory do I allocate to each instance? It wont let me use more the 2900mb on each one or I get a message saying windows wont let it.
> 
> I have attached a pic.


open windows resource manager and use 90-95% of the ram windows does not. Or... with 16GB, simply divide 12288 equally between 4 instances for the 6600K. It will cover stability well enough. Windows will need approx 2G. you can use the remainder.


----------



## Kimir

Ooooh, started from the ground up again, 3200c13 1.38v successful training.








I might have mixed some things with cache before that was giving me those trouble. Ima gonna do a quick GSAT for 5 mins and if it's all good, start an overnight GSAT again.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Sorry, some more X99...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 2666Mhz C11-11-11-26 1T --- 1.36v --- SA 0.977v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- GSAT 5H
> 
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 2800Mhz C12-12-12-28 1T --- 1.38v --- SA 0.977v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- GSAT 6H


nice.. 2666c11 is VERY snappy.. i was at 2666c12 on 8 sticks until this TZ kit came out. Never held anything back at c12, c11 must be great. I'm gonna have to try that.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Llantant--i76700K @4.7/4.5---3733Mhz-C17-17-17-37-1T----1.4v--VCCIO 1.21v----SA 1.25v---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> 
> This Mem OC is shaping up nicely. Ive set SA on 1.25v and it seems to be holding nicely. I was orginally put off with purple writing in my BIOS though!!
> 1.4v DRAM also *changed purple
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> oh well.
> I would like to start with this TRAS as you guys mentioned. Just start decreasing and see what happens ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *edit
> *Also 1.4v dram ok for 24/7*??


Purple is my favorite color. Kidding aside, 1.4V VDIMM is perfectly fine.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Ooooh, started from the ground up again, 3200c13 1.38v successful training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might have mixed some things with cache before that was giving me those trouble. Ima gonna do a quick GSAT for 5 mins and if it's all good, start an overnight GSAT again.


cool. c13 should be a cake walk with those sticks.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> nice.. 2666c11 is VERY snappy.. i was at 2666c12 on 8 sticks until this TZ kit came out. Never held anything back at c12, c11 must be great. I'm gonna have to try that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cool. c13 should be a cake walk with those sticks.


2666 is great yeah, can even be faster than 2800 since ratio is easier.
heh, still having some difficulties with C13 1.405v eventual, even dropping cache to 4.1 with voltage used for 4.3. But back tFAW to 24 and tCWL to 10, some errors too.








Almost 3am, starting a test at C14 with 1.36v. Will see with C13 tomorrow.
I've got to get that thing working ready for folding again lol.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> 2666 is great yeah, can even be faster than 2800 since ratio is easier.
> heh, still having some difficulties with C13 1.405v eventual, even dropping cache to 4.1 with voltage used for 4.3. But back tFAW to 24 and tCWL to 10, some errors too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost 3am, starting a test at C14 with 1.36v. Will see with C13 tomorrow.
> I've got to get that thing working ready for folding again lol.


3 days! (tho I won't be folding on CPUs







- need to use the rigs and "pause" breaks the campaign too much.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Sorry, some more X99...
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 2666Mhz C11-11-11-26 1T --- 1.36v --- SA 0.977v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- GSAT 5H
> 
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 2800Mhz C12-12-12-28 1T --- 1.38v --- SA 0.977v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- GSAT 6H


Nice one, I would be happy with that 2666 result


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice one, I would be happy with that 2666 result


It's great, but I feel little sad panda running highly capable dram at lower speed just because my cache doesn't want to play nice with 3200.








Well, it's not like I didn't do that in the past, My SMA8 rig is still running strong at 2133 c8-10-10-21 with those Trindent 2600c10.








But with those it was because running strap 100 wouldn't work at all past 2400 -and at 2400 there is that bug of write speed-

I've got 1 hardware incident at the 3200c14-14-14-32 1T with 1.365v on 5 hour of SAT while running the cache at 4.2Ghz with .320 offset (about 1.248v under load), bumping up to 1.37v in the UEFI (that's up to 1.39v on DMM) and will let it run for the day while I'm at work.
I might try 2666c10 this weekend.


----------



## Silent Scone

Silent Scone--6600K @4.5/4.2---4000Mhz-C18-20-20-40-1T----1.46v--VCCIO 1.23v----SA 1.28v---HCI----1000%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Silent Scone--6600K @4.5/4.2---4000Mhz-C18-20-20-40-1T----1.46v--VCCIO 1.23v----SA 1.28v---HCI----1000%


phuk.. that MB is nice!! (don't tell me those are "ropey" sticks too







)


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah, in the sense I still need to juice them a little to get them to run at XMP even on this board, but they do alright beyond that. 4133 might be a little out of reach, and not to mention I think there is a bit of a compromise in places for it, cache especially. Still next to no input needed to get this stable beyond what the sticks will do, it's a beast for it.

For what it's worth this is on the ES with a H100iGT still, and to be quite honest not a great deal of airflow


----------



## Kimir

Look like I might be able to get a second kit of TZ 3200c14, gonna have to do some binning and keep the best of the 2.


----------



## Silent Scone

Table updated


----------



## llantant

Llantant--6700K @4.7/4.5---3733Mhz-C17-17-17-37-1T----1.405v--VCCIO 1.20v----SA 1.25v---HCI----1600%

I found that in order to pass memtest I needed one very slight bump to Vdimm. Although set to 1.4 in BIOS I found that it would occasionally seem to drop to 1.392, I ended up with an error in Memtest. I bumped the voltage slightly and it passed no problems. Also I dropped VCCIO one notch to 1.2 as it seemed to be getting quite high in HWinfo when set to 1.21 (Was getting 1.27 spikes).

How can I go about reducing tRFC thats currently at 535. What are some common numbers for it??

Memory overclocking is so much more fun than CPU. Does any one have any literature that they could point me to regarding the other timings? I would like to learn more but do know where to start.


----------



## Kimir

You should try the memory preset, you have an asus board, I imagine those must have some preset like the other Asus board.


----------



## llantant

Seems like a good guide here. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Seems like a good guide here. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427


The initial part maybe helpful to some, however most of it is not with overall stability in mind. 'Different strokes for different folks'. The values spoken about are generally on the basis you are really juicing the kits.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The initial part maybe helpful to some, however most of it is not with overall stability in mind. 'Different strokes for different folks'. The values spoken about are generally on the basis you are really juicing the kits.












Yeah I'm not following it, it just seemed an interesting read.


----------



## llantant

Changed tRAS to 340 randomly. Maxxmem jumped up half a gb per second. 32.5!

And 1ns quicker. 43.5.

Sadly. It wasn't stable. Shall I change the number or increase voltage somewhere?


----------



## Kimir

That's drastic, if I were you, I'd lose it a bit, say 450 and try again. If it pass then 400... and 350.
But as I said, with an Asus board, I'd look at the preset (load preset and put back the main timings back to what you want), those works great on x79 and x99, I've never had mainstream platform, but I'm sure Asus does it well for z170 too.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Seems like a good guide here. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The initial part maybe helpful to some, however most of it is not with overall stability in mind. 'Different strokes for different folks'. The values spoken about are generally on the basis you are really juicing the kits.


[email protected] put a lot of working in to the ddr4 OC thread... and one thing that I have found helpful at 3600 and up (including some odd ratios with Bclock OCs on non-K chips) AND at "mere mortal" voltages is the following:

_ISSUE #1: I can't go over DDR4-3600 on Maximus 4-dimm boards_

_Encountered this while trying to bench Samsung D-die and E-die with tertiary on auto using Maximus VIII Gene and Extreme . The culprit to blame are TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd . When going higher than 3600 these need to be set on same level as CAS value otherwise board will give you a nice 55 POST CODE to look at. This is not true for Impact because Impact cand handle lower values and higher speeds so it will have no problem booting 4133 on AUTO.
Websmile was first to notice so I give him credit for this._

Helped me with q-code 55


----------



## error-id10t

Most of those values for my auto are stupid high (well, if the possible mins are near CAS levels) at ~34 ..what are yours?


----------



## llantant

With regards to Maximus Tweak. What should it be on? AUTO or Mode 2? Out of Mode 1 and 2 then Mode 2 seems to have the lower timings.

Actually auto seems to be the same as mode 2.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Most of those values for my auto are stupid high (well, if the possible mins are near CAS levels) at ~34 ..what are yours?


Just checked and with two dimms those values Jpm quoted were 12, so I tried to change them them to 17 to see what would happen. At my current oc there's no change in Benchmarking etc, I will try push for 3866 as this was giving me 55 before.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> [email protected] put a llot of working inm to the ddr4 OC thread... and one thing that I have found helpful at 3600 and up (including some odd ratios with Bclock OCs on non-K chips) AND at "mere mortal" voltages is the folllowing"
> 
> _ISSUE #1: I can't go over DDR4-3600 on Maximus 4-dimm boards_
> 
> _Encountered this while trying to bench Samsung D-die and E-die with tertiary on auto using Maximus VIII Gene and Extreme . The culprit to blame are TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd . When going higher than 3600 these need to be set on same level as CAS value otherwise board will give you a nice 55 POST CODE to look at. This is not true for Impact because Impact cand handle lower values and higher speeds so it will have no problem booting 4133 on AUTO.
> Websmile was first to notice so I give him credit for this._
> 
> Helped with q-core 55


Hence initial part


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> With regards to Maximus Tweak. What should it be on? AUTO or Mode 2? Out of Mode 1 and 2 then Mode 2 seems to have the lower timings.
> 
> Actually auto seems to be the same as mode 2.


Yes, tweak mode 1 increases timing values for memory that may not be able to pass training or stability otherwise


----------



## error-id10t

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Just checked and with two dimms those values Jpm quoted were 12, so I tried to change them them to 17 to see what would happen. At my current oc there's no change in Benchmarking etc, I will try push for 3866 as this was giving me 55 before.


Don't ask me. I just found a picture I took only a week ago which has my values at 12. Today, they're at 34, 34, 34, 35 respectively. I've reset the mem and can't get that lol, no idea what is going on. For reference.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> .
> Don't ask me. I just found a picture I took only a week ago which has my values at 12. Today, they're at 34, 34, 34, 35 respectively. I've reset the mem and can't get that lol, no idea what is going on. For reference.


Were you running the same kit and frequency back then though? These values all scale dude. As a reference point for what we are looking at here in this thread, the values used for quick PI runs are murky.


----------



## error-id10t

Yeah same kit as shown it's the 3866. Never touched these values before reading that hwbot thread, all auto values.

Then found that screenshot showing I already had them at 12 for this 3866. And now as earlier mentioned, they're at 34 for some reason.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Hence initial part












just trying to post some helpful "tid-bits" from among tweaks really only useful at >1.6V


----------



## Digitalwolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just trying to post some helpful "tid-bits" from among tweaks really only useful at >1.6V


I have a 3733 Trident Z kit that worked fine on my 6700k, but it wouldn't work quite right on my 6600k. The one bit you posted about the 4 dimm issue seems to have solved the problem. I hadn't read that guide before as I mostly lurk here.

Glad you posted it.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Digitalwolf*
> 
> I have a 3733 Trident Z kit that worked fine on my 6700k, but it wouldn't work quite right on my 6600k. The one bit you posted about the 4 dimm issue seems to have solved the problem. I hadn't read that guide before as I mostly lurk here.
> 
> Glad you posted it.


Thanks. good to know it helped.


----------



## error-id10t

This kit is driving me nuts. Last night like I posted it was showing 34 and couldn't get it back to 12 which was implied on that screenshot from a week ago. Posted here and went to play with the kid and wife and then sleep. Now I'm back.. and guess what, it's freaking 12! I swear this system is haunted and I have no control anymore


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> This kit is driving me nuts. Last night like I posted it was showing 34 and couldn't get it back to 12 which was implied on that screenshot from a week ago. Posted here and went to play with the kid and wife and then sleep. Now I'm back.. and guess what, it's freaking 12! I swear this system is haunted and I have no control anymore


This is normal, if the values aren't entered manually, during training they can change from POST to POST.


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is normal, if the values aren't entered manually, during training they can change from POST to POST.


Can anyone shed any light on what happens with memory training?

Does it reset itself after a BIOS flash? Or even a reset to defaults?

Does it just change one or maybe a couple of related timings at a time?

About how many restarts would you think it would take before it settles close to or on final settings?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> Can anyone shed any light on what happens with memory training?
> 
> Does it reset itself after a BIOS flash? Or even a reset to defaults?
> 
> Does it just change one or maybe a couple of related timings at a time?
> 
> About how many restarts would you think it would take before it settles close to or on final settings?


The memory controller performs training at each POST. This process is more difficult to pass than OS stability tests because the result is either a Pass/Fail based on the signal adjustment and what is considered valid within that predefined window. Sometimes it pays to play dumb from a user standpoint and accept that when the relevant Q-CODEs are flagged, the memory is most probably not stable and the signals are intruding on one another. The settings you speak of do not settle and are predetermined based on the conditions that validate them during the process. (temp, imdepdance drift, voltages)

Disabling these procedures with settings like MRC Fastboot, the system will retrain the memory one last time on applying this setting - from then on the system will load these determined on what is then stored in NVRAM. A scarily common misconception is that this solves memory training issues, when in fact if the memory isn't stable the system may need to retrain again before more passable settings are stored.

Bottom line these things need to happen, and it pays to pay attention to what is happening at POST. To interpret the training and enhanced training procedures to a level that could be considered even close to comprehensible requires a bigger cranium than mine, but you need only really take note of what helps you determine what will retain consistent passing during training. Which for the most part, is back off or apply more voltage. Simples. (Meerkat Cat)


----------



## Deders

Much appreciated. I might start noting down what changes are made.

When you say the settings are stored, does updating or resetting the BIOS, or even enabling/disabling XMP reset it to default values?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> Much appreciated. I might start noting down what changes are made.
> 
> When you say the settings are stored, does updating or resetting the BIOS, or even enabling/disabling XMP reset it to default values?


Yes clearing or updating the UEFI should clear whatever is stored in NVRAM. I'll see if you can ponder over the repercussions of toggling profiles from one POST to the next with MRC FastBoot disabled.


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'll see if you can ponder over the repercussions of toggling profiles from one POST to the next with MRC FastBoot disabled.


I guess if that data is stored along with the profile, it will be loaded with the profile.

On the other hand the training data could be separate and applied to each profile once it has loaded.

There may even be a record of successful and unsuccessful timings with all the relevant temp, impedance drift and voltage data at the given frequency. This might eat into NVRAM space, especially if the frequency was changed a lot, so it might not be implemented.

I presume this data would be changed and retested if you applied a new frequency, or at least one that was too far away from the original.

So if it is stored along with the profile, disabling MRC Fastboot (in effect enabling memory training) The values would be retrained after a restart.

If it is stored separately and the profile loaded but the memory settings were the same in both profiles, it might be able to keep the old training data and work from there, still retraining after a restart.

If the memory settings are completely different, I expect It would have to start again with the memory training, if it couldn't find any relevant data in the possibly non-existent cache of settings.

I'd like to know what the DLLBwEn setting is for?

The auto settings on the MRC Fastboot and the setting that determines the thoroughness of the testing implies that the bios could decide to enable and disable training based on a stability record.


----------



## Silent Scone

I can't translate that into anything meaningful sorry.


----------



## Deders

Basically with MRC Fastboot Disabled, the memory training should happen anyway on reboot. The starting point for this could depend on how the learned data is stored.


----------



## Jpmboy

you guys need a couple of pints before resuming that discussion.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you guys need a couple of pints before resuming that discussion.


Think that may already be involved lol


----------



## Menthol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sometimes it pays to play dumb from a user standpoint


I've never had to play at being dumb or sometimes it's better to let people think I'm stupid than opening my mouth and confirming there suspicions


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you guys need a couple of pints before resuming that discussion.


In progress.....


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> I've never had to play at being dumb or sometimes it's better to let people think I'm stupid than opening my mouth and confirming there suspicions


LOL, we as the majority on this subject are all in the same boat. Most important thing to take away is how this is represented on the platform you are using with Q-CODE. It's scary how many users complain when getting a new memory kit and having woes without even remotely understanding why the system is halting. Or more to the point in some ways even bothering to check what the code represents in the manual.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you guys need a couple of pints before resuming that discussion.


I don't think that will help, looking at the theories presented so far... heh


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I don't think that will help, looking at the theories presented so far... heh


If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, then what would happen to John Smith's toaster when Dave throws it in the bath water whilst Peter is pecking his peppers.


----------



## [email protected]

Straight jacket and cushioned white room spring to mind.


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I don't think that will help, looking at the theories presented so far... heh


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, then what would happen to John Smith's toaster when Dave throws it in the bath water whilst Peter is pecking his peppers.


Ok then, why not enlighten me instead of mocking and being condescending?

The subject in question was... "I'll see if you can ponder over the repercussions of toggling profiles from one POST to the next with MRC FastBoot disabled."

Correct me if I'm wrong but disabling MRC Fastboot, enables memory training.

My answer was... "Basically with MRC Fastboot Disabled, the memory training should happen anyway on reboot. The starting point for this could depend on how the learned data is stored."


----------



## Silent Scone

Then the latter is what you should have said


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Then the latter is what you should have said


I did....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> Basically with MRC Fastboot Disabled, the memory training should happen anyway on reboot. The starting point for this could depend on how the learned data is stored.


Because I'm not trained in the dark art of bios programming, My previous post was a selection of theoretical scenarios which seem quite plausible, and a selection of answers based on those scenario's. With a couple of questions at the end.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> I did....
> Because I'm not trained in the dark art of bios programming, My previous post was a selection of theoretical scenarios which seem quite plausible, and a selection of answers based on those scenario's. With a couple of questions at the end.


Plausible doesn't really come into it. First and foremost I'm not sure what your referencing to profiling throughout your post was speaking about - maybe that wasn't necessarily the right question to ask but you seem to have a misconstrued view on what an XMP profile actually does (or doesn't). I blame myself for trying to miniaturise it when it's not within my scope to do so.

I'd focus on learning to use the UEFI beyond that before worrying about these things. Unless you are experiencing memory training failures, in which case you're much better off asking questions that a broader audience could answer without confusing matters further.


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Plausible doesn't really come into it. First and foremost I'm not sure what your referencing to profiling throughout your post was speaking about - maybe that wasn't necessarily the right question to ask but you seem to have a misconstrued view on what an XMP profile actually does (or doesn't). I blame myself for trying to miniaturise it when it's not within my scope to do so.
> 
> I'd focus on learning to use the UEFI beyond that before worrying about these things. Unless you are experiencing memory training failures, in which case you're much better off asking questions that a broader audience could answer without confusing matters further.


Ahh, I was talking about the custom profiles you can save all your settings to. I didn't realise you meant XMP profiles.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deders*
> 
> Ahh, I was talking about the custom profiles you can save all your settings to. I didn't realise you meant XMP profiles.


If that's so I wouldn't encroach this subject again for quite some time lol


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If that's so I wouldn't encroach this subject again for quite some time lol


Because there was a reasonable misunderstanding over the first thing that comes to mind in two different people's heads when someone says profiles?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> I've never had to play at being dumb or sometimes it's better to let people think I'm stupid than opening my mouth and confirming there suspicions


You sir.. win the "Yogi Award" (no really, it's an honor).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I don't think that will help, looking at the theories presented so far... heh


Better yet - . I'll have the pints.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> You sir.. win the "Yogi Award" (no really, it's an honor).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better yet - . I'll have the pints.


It's a school night.


----------



## Praz

Hello

For a basic understanding of memory training I suggest searching some of the X99 threads, reading applicable JEDEC papers as well as application notes from the various companies that produce equipment to monitor or measure eye diagrams for timing signals. It is getting more and more difficult to hit the replay button every time subject is brought up when it is new to only the person bringing it up.


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> For a basic understanding of memory training I suggest searching some of the X99 threads, reading applicable JEDEC papers as well as application notes from the various companies that produce equipment to monitor or measure eye diagrams for timing signals. It is getting more and more difficult to hit the replay button every time subject is brought up when it is new to only the person bringing it up.


Thanks I'll give it a look. I think I have the info I wanted anyway but it doesn't hurt to read up.

I was basically thinking of monitoring what the bios decides are safe settings over time and using that as a starting point for when I want to start tweaking. Knowing when the bios will reset the settings to default will help avoid anomalies in the data.

I'm happy with the way it's performing at the moment so I don't think I'll be tweaking quite yet, but I thought it was a good time to start collecting data.


----------



## Silent Scone

You're getting caught up on the differences between POST to POST and are confused on how data is read and rewritten from NVRAM. You can't dictate what is valid for a pass or fail beyond the appropriate latency, settings and voltages. I'd also recommend reading Raja's guides on ROG which touch on the subject.

Seriously consider focusing on stability and what the training codes represent when pushing memory, so the unshackled questions surrounding MRC are kept to a minimum. For everyone's sake including mine (attempting to laymanise in car crash fashion)


----------



## Deders

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You're getting caught up on the differences between POST to POST and are confused on how data is read and rewritten from NVRAM. You can't dictate what is valid for a pass or fail beyond the appropriate latency, settings and voltages. I'd also recommend reading Raja's guides on ROG which touch on the subject.
> 
> Seriously consider focusing on stability and what the training codes represent when pushing memory, so the unshackled questions surrounding MRC are kept to a minimum. For everyone's sake including mine (attempting to laymanise in car crash fashion)


I'll bear that in mind and have a look at the ROG guides. Thanks.

I would have thought that if I saw how the mobo handled it, I'd notice patterns for instance if it went beyond stable and had to loosen a latency setting back again. On the other hand I might not learn anything from it. Either way my curiosity will be satisfied.

I wouldn't say I'd got as far as confused, just open to possibilities. It's a moot point now as it's irrelevant for what I want to do. Knowing what you put in your first answer should be enough. Once I've learned a bit more I can see for myself how switching between SPD and XMP affects it.

Did you get my PM?


----------



## Zaen

Hi everyone, new to the thread, and OC in general. Wanted some hints to improve my memory clocks, 1T or 2T. or any of the primary timings would be good enough for me









This is what i got at the moment.



Gskill Trident Z 3000MHz CL15, Tcas 17T, Trcd 18T, Trp 18T, Tras 36T, Trfc 390T, Command rate 2T at 1,350V

Anyone has experience with tighter timings on these?

Edit: that is a pic of a 750%+ pass of HCI. CPU @4.6, cache 3.9 @ 1,410V (Bios).


----------



## llantant

Wow I didn't realize tightening secondaries and some tertiary's would make such s difference! I have only currently done some, From the guide I posted earlier.

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427

In progress of messing with the others. Currrently benching better at 3600 17/18/18/38 1T than I previously was with 3866 17/17/17/37 1T.

32.5 gb maxxmem and I also beat my previous SuperPi Score of 6m 38 Which was when my PC was clocked at 4.8ghz, Im currently at 4.7!!

Im enjoying this! Finding out which it likes me to lower etc...

What Ive currently messed with.

tREFI - set to 65000

tFAW set to 16

RAS to RAS DELAY (L and S) 7 5

Write to Read Delay (L and S) 6 6

CAS Write Latency Doesnt like me to lower from 10.

I have also done a couple of tertiary's as per guide!

I cannot for the life of me how to do the RTL trainging though. Are there any other similar guides out there I could also have a browse at?


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaen*
> 
> Hi everyone, new to the thread, and OC in general. Wanted some hints to improve my memory clocks, 1T or 2T. or any of the primary timings would be good enough for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what i got at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Gskill Trident Z 3000MHz CL15, Tcas 17T, Trcd 18T, Trp 18T, Tras 36T, Trfc 390T, Command rate 2T at 1,350V
> 
> Anyone has experience with tighter timings on these?
> 
> Edit: that is a pic of a 750%+ pass of HCI. CPU @4.6, cache 3.9 @ 1,410V (Bios).


Have a look at my above post, theres a link to a nice guide. Of course that guide is pumping alot of voltage through the kits but its a good read and gives a good idea on some of the important timings.

Basically my advice is to have a good windows image to hand and then try a whole bunch different timings and speeds!

If you up the speed then you will have to loosen timings and/or up voltage.

Also you seem to be running memtest with 7 iterations of 2gb? You should be splitting amongst 8 threads. So 8 instances and less than 2gb each. 1650 approx depending on how much windows is running.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaen*
> 
> Hi everyone, new to the thread, and OC in general. Wanted some hints to improve my memory clocks, 1T or 2T. or any of the primary timings would be good enough for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what i got at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Gskill Trident Z 3000MHz CL15, Tcas 17T, Trcd 18T, Trp 18T, Tras 36T, Trfc 390T, Command rate 2T at 1,350V
> 
> Anyone has experience with tighter timings on these?
> 
> Edit: that is a pic of a 750%+ pass of HCI. CPU @4.6, cache 3.9 @ 1,410V (Bios).


First thing is to retest at 1T. Also as above please read the correct configuration of HCI from within the OP


----------



## llantant

This is my best mem OC to date. I am really enjoying playing with the secondary and tertiary timings!! What do you guys think?

3733mhz 17/18/18/38 1T @ 1.4v with 1.2 vccio and 1.25 SA plus I have tweked quite a few other timings. Great maxxmem score and super pi and 1000% memtest and 2 hour stressapp!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is my best mem OC to date. I am really enjoying playing with the secondary and tertiary timings!! What do you guys think?
> 
> 3733mhz 17/18/18/38 1T @ 1.4v with 1.2 vccio and 1.25 SA plus I have tweked quite a few other timings. Great maxxmem score and super pi and 1000% memtest and 2 hour stressapp!!


Nice! I would think there is a timing error corrected by the MB with tRTP at 10 and FAW at 16. Lower tRTP to 4 (usually FAW is noi less than 4x tRTP). Also, with RTP lower the performance increases significantly.









what clock period? or is this on auto?


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice! I would think there is a timing error corrected by the MB with tRTP at 10 and FAW at 16. Lower tRTP to 4 (usually FAW is noi less than 4x tRTP). Also, with RTP lower the performance increases significantly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what clock period? or is this on auto?


Ooo I did not know that, I was going through various things on the hwbot guide. I will try lowering tRTP. FAW was originally 33 I lowered to 16 as per guide.

Clock period would be on auto. I have not touched that.

**edit.

I tried tRTP on 4 but it would not boot, so instead I upped FAW to 24 and then put tRTP on 6 and it booted. Ill stability test and bench a bit.

That would be right for tRTP if I set FAW on 24 right? divide by 4?

They were at default auto, 10 and 33.



Better thanks









Now to ensure stabilty. So when changing these timings always stick to that rule you stated?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ooo I did not know that, I was going through various things on the hwbot guide. I will try lowering tRTP. FAW was originally 33 I lowered to 16 as per guide.
> 
> Clock period would be on auto. I have not touched that.
> 
> **edit.
> 
> I tried tRTP on 4 but it would not boot, so instead I upped FAW to 24 and then put tRTP on 6 and it booted. Ill stability test and bench a bit.
> 
> That would be right for tRTP if I set FAW on 24 right? divide by 4?
> 
> They were at default auto, 10 and 33.
> 
> 
> 
> Better thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to ensure stabilty. So when changing these timings always stick to that rule you stated?


yeah, for what ever lowest trtp you can stabilize, set FAW to x4. lowering tRTP will cost a bit of voltage...
Anyway - those are some good sticks you got there and a great OC that you figured out.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, for what ever lowest trtp you cab stabilize, set FAW to x4. lowering tRTP will cost a bit of voltage...
> Anyway - those are some good sticks you got there and a great OC that you figured out.


Thanks for the help!

Having fun doing it and learning a lot.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> Having fun doing it and learning a lot.


it's complex, but that's what makes it fun!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ooo I did not know that, I was going through various things on the hwbot guide. I will try lowering tRTP. FAW was originally 33 I lowered to 16 as per guide.
> 
> Clock period would be on auto. I have not touched that.
> 
> **edit.
> 
> I tried tRTP on 4 but it would not boot, so instead I upped FAW to 24 and then put tRTP on 6 and it booted. Ill stability test and bench a bit.
> 
> That would be right for tRTP if I set FAW on 24 right? divide by 4?
> 
> They were at default auto, 10 and 33.
> 
> 
> 
> Better thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to ensure stabilty. So when changing these timings always stick to that rule you stated?


This is why some of the timings that work for PI aren't ideal for real world scenarios as there are concessions as JP has rightly said. Best way is to make note of these constraints for future endeavours


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is why some of the timings that work for PI aren't ideal for real world scenarios as there are concessions as JP has rightly said. Best way is to make note of these constraints for future endeavours


Yep noting everything


----------



## [email protected]

tFAW min is 4X tRRD. tFAW is four Activate window. tRRD is Activate to Activate delay.

tRTP is read to Precharge. This setting is not related to tFAW or tRRD.


----------



## rt123

Total tRRD...? Addition of tRRD_L & tRRD_S ..?


----------



## Silent Scone

JP will kick himself over that one


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Total tRRD...? Addition of tRRD_L & tRRD_S ..?


No, the tRRD_L timing denotes Act to Act delay for same bank group, while tRRD_S is different bank groups. tFAW is a timing for tRRD_S only. Four concurrent Activates are not sent to same bank group, hence no tFAW_L timing exists.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> No, the tRRD_L timing denotes Act to Act delay for same bank group, while tRRD_S is different bank groups. tFAW is a timing for tRRD_S only. Four concurrent Activates are not sent to same bank group, hence no tFAW_L timing exists.


Thanks.









Is there a manual or something on these things..? I've tried searching a long time ago, results weren't satisfactory, IIRC.

If there's none, you mind listing out the rules you know of..? Now or later, whenever you are free.
Plzzz...


----------



## [email protected]

Check the ROG forums for some of the UEFI guides which include some DDR3 laws. No bank groups there, but the rest of the timing laws for min values between associated timings are same.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> tFAW min is 4X tRRD. tFAW is four Activate window. tRRD is Activate to Activate delay.
> 
> tRTP is read to Precharge. This setting is not related to tFAW or tRRD.


Ahhhh. I'm liking tRTP on 6. At first I was unstable but I had TWR on auto, I set TWR to 12 as per the guide on hwbot and I'm up to 700% hci pass. I do have tFAW on 24 tho so I take it I can reduce that back down to 16 or double check what my tRRD is set at.

Actually thinking about it, I think that's set at 6 so 24 will be good.

Thanks for the input Raja. Look forward to episode 3 of the podcast too by the way.

Also is there somewhere I can read up on what these things do. Even if they are currently over my head, there must be something I can read for some bedtime reading.

*** edit

I'll check the rog forums as I just seen the above post!


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Check the ROG forums for some of the UEFI guides which include some DDR3 laws. No bank groups there, but the rest of the timing laws for min values between associated timings are same.


Found it.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Also is there somewhere I can read up on what these things do. Even if they are currently over my head, there must be something I can read for some bedtime reading.


https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ahhhh. I'm liking tRTP on 6. At first I was unstable but I had TWR on auto, I set TWR to 12 as per the guide on hwbot and I'm up to 700% hci pass. I do have tFAW on 24 tho so I take it I can reduce that back down to 16 or double check what my tRRD is set at.
> 
> Actually thinking about it, I think that's set at 6 so 24 will be good.
> 
> Thanks for the input Raja. Look forward to episode 3 of the podcast too by the way.
> 
> Also is there somewhere I can read up on what these things do. Even if they are currently over my head, there must be something I can read for some bedtime reading.
> 
> *** edit
> 
> I'll check the rog forums as I just seen the above post!


I'll stick up for JP as he-did know this, I think he just had a blunder moment lol


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Found it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking


Thanks dude. I know what I'm reading through in bed tonight


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'll stick up for JP as he-did know this, I think he just had a blunder moment lol












Also I cannot check what my tRRD is set at currently anyway. I don't want to stop hci so far in. I'll have a check in the morning.

Either way I got a nice bump in performance with jpms suggestion regardless


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> No, the tRRD_L timing denotes Act to Act delay for same bank group, while tRRD_S is different bank groups. tFAW is a timing for tRRD_S only. Four concurrent Activates are not sent to same bank group, hence no tFAW_L timing exists.


Ahh, I think that tRRD_S is set to 5, RAS to RAS delay? (tRRD_L is 7)

Should I set FAW to 20 or because as Jpm suggest no less than x4, 24 would be ok anyway?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> JP will kick himself over that one


Kicking has commenced.









here's where I'm at on x99.... z170 is set to fold so ram is only 3466loose. ]




got a GSAT somewhere... lol, in this thread most likely.

hopefully rig runs solid, uninterrupted for the next 7 days...


----------



## Zaen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Have a look at my above post, theres a link to a nice guide. Of course that guide is pumping alot of voltage through the kits but its a good read and gives a good idea on some of the important timings.
> 
> Basically my advice is to have a good windows image to hand and then try a whole bunch different timings and speeds!
> 
> If you up the speed then you will have to loosen timings and/or up voltage.
> 
> Also you seem to be running memtest with 7 iterations of 2gb? You should be splitting amongst 8 threads. So 8 instances and less than 2gb each. 1650 approx depending on how much windows is running.


Thx for the quick reply and guide hint







will be reading that later tonight. Thx Silent Scone for the quick reply also.

Didn't know 1 more thread of HCI would make a difference when running values above 500% on 14 out of 16Gb, still learning









Realized when i looked better at the timings i posted from HWiNFO and they are above what kit specs says they should be. After reading the guide i will probably set the spec timings and check if that runs stable without added voltage. Hmmm CPU-Z reports the kit spec timings... lol. one is wrong... which one? lol

Thx for the guidance


----------



## NYD117

nyd117--i7-5930K @4.2/4.2---3200Mhz-16GB-C16-17-17-35-1T----1.4v---SA 0.984v---Stressapptest----2 Hours



TurboV shows 1.39v. It's set 1.4v in BIOS.
Still have to make some adjustments and check the tertiaries too.


----------



## llantant

It was stable at the setting!!

So do you think I should no lower tFAW to 20 so that it is 4x tRRD_s which is at 5. Or is it as JPM said of no less than 4x meaning more is fine?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> It was stable at the setting!!
> 
> So do you think I should no lower tFAW to 20 so that it is 4x tRRD_s which is at 5. Or is it as JPM said of no less than 4x meaning more is fine?


This post is contradictory, you're asking if more is fine but wanting to reduce tFAW lol. Running at the sum of tRRD x4 with the configuration used is fine as long as the sticks are capable. Just remember for the gains we are talking about here, or lack of, doesn't pay to push too far. We aren't looking to break records


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This post is contradictory, you're asking if more is fine but wanting to reduce tFAW lol. Running at the sum of tRRD x4 with the configuration used is fine as long as the sticks are capable. Just remember for the gains we are talking about here, or lack of, doesn't pay to push too far. We aren't looking to break records


Hehe no i didnt mean that.

Raja corrected JPM with the whole tRRD_s being 4x tFAW instead of tRTP that I had orginally based it on. I got a nice boost from jpm's suggestion so left it at that anyway, I just had to change TWR to 12 instead of auto (says 13 in the mem timing software tho but its 12) in order to stabalise.

Anyway, I was already well into my stability testing when Raja mentioned that it was tRRD_s, I have that set to 5 but tFAW is still at 24. I left it carry on stabiltiy testing because i was like 700% into it when I noticed the post.

So what I mean is do I have to follow the x4 suggestion or is slightly over x4 fine? i.e 5 and 24 instead of 6/24 5/20 ?

Apologies if I am mis understanding something.

Im going to have a few days off and then start tweaking some more !


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Hehe no i didnt mean that.
> 
> Raja corrected JPM with the whole tRRD_s being 4x tFAW instead of tRTP that I had orginally based it on. I got a nice boost from jpm's suggestion so left it at that anyway, I just had to change TWR to 12 instead of auto (says 13 in the mem timing software tho but its 12) in order to stabalise.
> 
> Anyway, I was already well into my stability testing when Raja mentioned that it was tRRD_s, I have that set to 5 but tFAW is still at 24. I left it carry on stabiltiy testing because i was like 700% into it when I noticed the post.
> 
> So what I mean is do I have to follow the x4 suggestion or is slightly over x4 fine? i.e 5 and 24 instead of 6/24 5/20 ?
> 
> Apologies if I am mis understanding something.
> 
> Im going to have a few days off and then start tweaking some more !


Right, yes more is fine - because you are raising the time it takes to make at least 4 act commands. The tFAW value is the minimum time (tRRD x4). Setting this lower has no perceivable gain as tFAW is only applicable to acts on the same rank and for tRRD_S (at least i'm fairly sure this is correct)

Being slap bang on the rule may be beyond your memory's capability without more voltage, or it it may be fine - only you can tell us this







. This is precisely why I tried to keep a lot of this stuff out of the OP and the table as it becomes hazy for all involved, and that is by no stretch not including myself. Be sure to make notes to drop back some of these, or make good use of the OC Profile slots in the UEFI in case you find yourself coming unstuck late as stability may drift depending on the margins


----------



## [email protected]

Each Activate is spaced by tRRD. tFAW spaces the fifth Activate by the number of clocks past tRRD X4. In more simplistic terms, if one sets tRRD to 5, it will take 20 clocks to send 4 Activates. If tFAW is set to 24, 4 additional clocks will elapse before the fifth Activate can be sent. So the fifth Activate command will be delayed by a total of 8 clocks; tRRD + (tFAW - (tRRD X 4)).


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah what he said.


----------



## Jpmboy

I know - it's my fault.


----------



## Silent Scone

lol it's not


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol it's not


eh, what ever settings I'm running ATM on z170, x79 and x99 are it until Sunday... Added cpu folding to each client. OPened the windows and let 'em fold (36h in.. 6 days to go)








(told the team I'm good for >2.5M PPD







)

Probably some level of stability being tested on all three rigs. X79 hasn't stretched it's legs in a while, it looks like it's smiling.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> eh, what ever settings I'm running ATM on z170, x79 and x99 are it until Sunday... Added cpu folding to each client. OPened the windows and let 'em fold (36h in.. 6 days to go)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (told the team I'm good for >2.5M PPD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


He was asking if it was ok to lower this below the threshold and I didn't realise/read it correctly - not related to your (age problem







) mistake yesterday









P.S Stop folding


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> He was asking if it was ok to lower this below the threshold and I didn't realise/read it correctly - not related to your (age problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) mistake yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S Stop folding


I'm on a folding bender









One thing being misread is the CAS / TRDWR finding ... it's not "12" unless you are running CAS 12. (that's the main problem with extreme guides leaving the Reservation)

_Encountered this while trying to bench Samsung D-die and E-die with tertiary on auto using Maximus VIII Gene and Extreme . The culprit to blame are TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd . When going higher than 3600 these need to be *set on same level as CAS value* otherwise board will give you a nice 55 POST CODE to look at._


----------



## llantant

Brilliant. I kind of start to understand it now (within reason







). I appreciate the info from you all thanks !!

And yes Silentscone I keep a comprehensive guide to every little thing I change and I also have more than the allotted number of OC profiles !!

Few days off to catch up on some paperwork and some Hearthstone then im going to start tweaking the tertiarys some more !


----------



## Praz

Hello

As I have wrote before the easiest way to understand timing relationships is to study timing diagrams. At first the diagrams will make little sense. Research the timing settings of interest to gain an understanding of what their purpose is. Once this is done the diagrams make it easy to visualize the relationships each have to each other. The diagram below illustrates the relationship of tRRD and tFAW. As noted the diagram is time sliced which means more clock cycles are taking place than shown. However, all slices will be set to the same value so the diagram can be viewed as is. Viewing the diagram as is it is easy to see that tRRD is set to 4 clock cycles and tFAW is set to 13 clock cycles. Researching these 2 timing parameters one will find what Raja has wrote above and all should make sense.

This brings to mind something else that is brought up quite often which is why do memory manufacturers program the SPD for some of the timings as they do. If 4 clock cycles is the minimum for tRRD and and tFAW minimum is 4 x tRRD why are these values higher by default? Memory specifications are no different than Intel selling a CPU at a qualified speed. The component is guaranteed to work for its intended purpose at the given specs. tRRD and tFAW values are based on chip page size. Per specs for 2400MHz memory speed with a 2k page size minimum tRRD_S is 4 clock cycles or 5.3ns, whichever is greater. A spacing of 5.3ns is equal to 6.4 clock cycles. To meet specs the memory manufacturer would set tRRD to 7 clock cycles. Likewise tFAW requirements are 28 clocks or 30ns, whichever is greater. 30ns is 36 clock cycles so to meet the requirement of whichever is greater the SPD would be set to 36 clocks instead of 28.


----------



## llantant

Thank you for the input Praz. Very much appriciated.

Worthwhile reading the documents over on https://www.jedec.org/ as you said before then.

While alot of stuff goes over my head, it will stick if I read it enough


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Thank you for the input Praz. Very much appriciated.
> 
> Worthwhile reading the documents over on https://www.jedec.org/ as you said before then.
> 
> While alot of stuff goes over my head, it will stick if I read it enough


reading the JEDEC spec DEFINITELY requires a few pints.








As a once practicing medicinal chemist, I _can_ say I was able to find a cure for insomnia in it tho.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> reading the JEDEC spec DEFINITELY requires a few pints.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a once practicing medicinal chemist, I _can_ say I was able to find a cure for insomnia in it tho.


Haha


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Thank you for the input Praz. Very much appriciated.
> 
> Worthwhile reading the documents over on https://www.jedec.org/ as you said before then.
> 
> While alot of stuff goes over my head, it will stick if I read it enough


I was having this discussion earlier, although the papers may have some digestible content it's aimed primarily at people who are presumed to have a certain level of understanding. Which out of all the people posting here really only applies to Raja and Praz lol. Although I will say that the Micron papers have some diagrams which are pretty well laid out.

Also the way you have to look at it is why do I need to know this. We are all here because we are at least somewhat passionate about PC's, but that doesn't change the fact that as a subsystem, altering what is being predefined for us already has very little gains. The boards do a great job of this already. The fact there is little understanding there cements that for me personally, beyond the primaries and raw frequency scaling.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> As I have wrote before the easiest way to understand timing relationships is to study timing diagrams. At first the diagrams will make little sense. Research the timing settings of interest to gain an understanding of what their purpose is. Once this is done the diagrams make it easy to visualize the relationships each have to each other. The diagram below illustrates the relationship of tRRD and tFAW. As noted the diagram is time sliced which means more clock cycles are taking place than shown. However, all slices will be set to the same value so the diagram can be viewed as is. Viewing the diagram as is it is easy to see that tRRD is set to 4 clock cycles and tFAW is set to 13 clock cycles. Researching these 2 timing parameters one will find what Raja has wrote above and all should make sense.
> 
> This brings to mind something else that is brought up quite often which is why do memory manufacturers program the SPD for some of the timings as they do. If 4 clock cycles is the minimum for tRRD and and tFAW minimum is 4 x tRRD why are these values higher by default? Memory specifications are no different than Intel selling a CPU at a qualified speed. The component is guaranteed to work for its intended purpose at the given specs. tRRD and tFAW values are based on chip page size. Per specs for 2400MHz memory speed with a 2k page size minimum tRRD_S is 4 clock cycles or 5.3ns, whichever is greater. A spacing of 5.3ns is equal to 6.4 clock cycles. To meet specs the memory manufacturer would set tRRD to 7 clock cycles. Likewise tFAW requirements are 28 clocks or 30ns, whichever is greater. 30ns is 36 clock cycles so to meet the requirement of whichever is greater the SPD would be set to 36 clocks instead of 28.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


Thanks Praz







+1


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I was having this discussion earlier, although the papers may have some digestible content it's aimed primarily at people who are presumed to have a certain level of understanding. Which out of all the people posting here really only applies to Raja and Praz lol. Although I will say that the Micron papers have some diagrams which are pretty well laid out.
> 
> Also the way you have to look at it is why do I need to know this. We are all here because we are at least somewhat passionate about PC's, but that doesn't change the fact that as a subsystem, altering what is being predefined for us already has very little gains. The boards do a great job of this already. The fact there is little understanding there cements that for me personally, beyond the primaries and raw frequency scaling.


I don't have to know it. I just find it interesting to read about.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> I don't have to know it. I just find it interesting to read about.


I think it's arguable which is more dangerous as we've established today







That's aimed at myself aswell. Especially considering I've now earned my third flame from misinterpreting what you were asking and giving a partial answer


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I think it's arguable which is more dangerous as we've established today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's aimed at myself aswell. Especially considering I've now earned my third flame from misinterpreting what you were asking and giving a partial answer


yo dude - congrats on Flame 3 !!


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I think it's arguable which is more dangerous as we've established today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's aimed at myself aswell. Especially considering I've now earned my third flame from misinterpreting what you were asking and giving a partial answer












With regards to my own OC tho. Im having some down time, but I was happy with tweaking the secondaries. I have always left them alone but got a nice boost and still kept stability without going over 1.4v.
I'm liking my current setup though, so I think ill let it be for a little while. I just wanted a little bed time reading









More important things to be doing anyway.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yo dude - congrats on Flame 3 !!


I would have preferred it would have been under different circumstances. Such as telling some oink to stop wrecking something on their system - but instead it was among friends. Feels a little empty.









Thanks lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regards to my own OC tho. Im having some down time, but I was happy with tweaking the secondaries. I have always left them alone but got a nice boost and still kept stability without going over 1.4v.
> I'm liking my current setup though, so I think ill let it be for a little while. I just wanted a little bed time reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More important things to be doing anyway.


lol - realisation kicks in that you have a fast machine there


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I would have preferred it would have been under different circumstances. Such as telling some oink to stop wrecking something on their system - but instead it was among friends. Feels a little empty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks lol


Nothing empty about it!!


----------



## michael-ocn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> As I have wrote before the easiest way to understand timing relationships is to study timing diagrams. At first the diagrams will make little sense. Research the timing settings of interest to gain an understanding of what their purpose is. Once this is done the diagrams make it easy to visualize the relationships each have to each other. The diagram below illustrates the relationship of tRRD and tFAW. As noted the diagram is time sliced which means more clock cycles are taking place than shown. However, all slices will be set to the same value so the diagram can be viewed as is. Viewing the diagram as is it is easy to see that tRRD is set to 4 clock cycles and tFAW is set to 13 clock cycles. Researching these 2 timing parameters one will find what Raja has wrote above and all should make sense.
> 
> This brings to mind something else that is brought up quite often which is why do memory manufacturers program the SPD for some of the timings as they do. If 4 clock cycles is the minimum for tRRD and and tFAW minimum is 4 x tRRD why are these values higher by default? Memory specifications are no different than Intel selling a CPU at a qualified speed. The component is guaranteed to work for its intended purpose at the given specs. tRRD and tFAW values are based on chip page size. Per specs for 2400MHz memory speed with a 2k page size minimum tRRD_S is 4 clock cycles or 5.3ns, whichever is greater. A spacing of 5.3ns is equal to 6.4 clock cycles. To meet specs the memory manufacturer would set tRRD to 7 clock cycles. Likewise tFAW requirements are 28 clocks or 30ns, whichever is greater. 30ns is 36 clock cycles so to meet the requirement of whichever is greater the SPD would be set to 36 clocks instead of 28.


Can i ask where you get timing diagrams like that for ddr4? Thnx.


----------



## Silent Scone

I've added the ROG DRAM control guide to the OP (https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *michael-ocn*
> 
> Can i ask where you get timing diagrams like that for ddr4? Thnx.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/3851/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-sdram-memory-but-were-afraid-to-ask

Obviously nothing here on Bank Groups (Which is probably for the better), but this is a great reference point.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *michael-ocn*
> 
> Can i ask where you get timing diagrams like that for ddr4? Thnx.


Hello

That is from a JEDEC doc.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I would have preferred it would have been under different circumstances. Such as telling some oink to stop wrecking something on their system - but instead it was among friends. Feels a little empty.


A bit too deep with regard to flames.









(earned and deserved )


----------



## Silent Scone

Never too deep.


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Never too deep.


I've heard that before...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> I've heard that before...


I set him up again, didn't I ?


----------



## shremi

Well i finally made a USB with linux but i cant seem to start the app here is the error i am getting.... Any ideas ???


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


[email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -W -s 3600
Log: Commandline - stressapptest -W -s 3600
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: buildd @ allspice on Sun Dec  1 04:04:20 UTC 2013 from open source release
Log: 1 nodes, 12 cpus.
Log: Defaulting to 12 copy threads
Log: Total 15950 MB. Free 13612 MB. Hugepages 0 MB. Targeting 14960 MB (93%)
Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
Process Error: memalign returned 0
Process Error: failed to allocate memory
Process Error: Sat::Initialize() failed


----------



## michael-ocn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Well i finally made a USB with linux but i cant seem to start the app here is the error i am getting.... Any ideas ???
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -W -s 3600
> Log: Commandline - stressapptest -W -s 3600
> Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
> Log: buildd @ allspice on Sun Dec  1 04:04:20 UTC 2013 from open source release
> Log: 1 nodes, 12 cpus.
> Log: Defaulting to 12 copy threads
> Log: Total 15950 MB. Free 13612 MB. Hugepages 0 MB. Targeting 14960 MB (93%)
> Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
> Process Error: memalign returned 0
> Process Error: failed to allocate memory
> Process Error: Sat::Initialize() failed


Try running it against less memory, it's trying to allocate too much memory (14.9G but only 13.6G are free). Try it with 8G to start with and if that works, bump it up to 12 or 13.

stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 8000


----------



## Silent Scone

What pen drive are you using?

The test should ideally be allocating as much as it is attempting to.


----------



## StrongForce

I got a 6600k OC @ 4.59 ghz with the XMP on my G skill ripjaws 5 @ 3200mhz, should I try to overclock the memory further ? how safe is it to do so you think, I never overclocked RAM past factory speeds, but I know some people do it, I'm just a bit anxious, don't wanna burn my kit !


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> I got a 6600k OC @ 4.59 ghz with the XMP on my G skill ripjaws 5 @ 3200mhz, should I try to overclock the memory further ? how safe is it to do so you think, I never overclocked RAM past factory speeds, but I know some people do it, I'm just a bit anxious, don't wanna burn my kit !


2133 is factory speeds, you're living the dream right now by running your memory at 3200. If you want to push this further is entirely your decision. It's safe to do so, ask whatever you are unsure about.


----------



## StrongForce

Lol I mean advertised speed, is there a chance for the RAM to degrade ? I guess it's the same chips they sell for the higher frequency ones like the 3466mhz essentially ? (which they sell for like twice the price by te way







or at least sold) would be nice if I can reach that speed.

I'll try and tweak it's nice I see the post of Raja in the first page with the timings he got on his 3600mhz kit ! so I can see what kind of timings for that speed


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *michael-ocn*
> 
> Try running it against less memory, it's trying to allocate too much memory (14.9G but only 13.6G are free). Try it with 8G to start with and if that works, bump it up to 12 or 13.
> 
> stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 8000


Ok i will try again tonight and report back .....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What pen drive are you using?
> 
> The test should ideally be allocating as much as it is attempting to.


This one


----------



## michael-ocn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Ok i will try again tonight and report back .....
> This one


My guess is your mini linux-on-a-stick install created a RAM drive for temp files/syslogs/etc (maybe even your home dir) so it runs faster and that accounts for the loss of a gig or two of available memory. If thats right, tell stressapptest to use less and you should be good.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Lol I mean advertised speed, is there a chance for the RAM to degrade ? I guess it's the same chips they sell for the higher frequency ones like the 3466mhz essentially ? (which they sell for like twice the price by te way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or at least sold) would be nice if I can reach that speed.
> 
> I'll try and tweak it's nice I see the post of Raja in the first page with the timings he got on his 3600mhz kit ! so I can see what kind of timings for that speed


Keep DRAM voltage below 1.5v. Depending on the age of the kit and binning process it may well be the same IC but the capabilities at each bin will be different. You've paid for the bin you've bought, and are not guaranteed to achieve the same results as the next bin. All of GSKILL kits are handed picked which is not cheap.


----------



## MR-e

Quick question guys, is Samsung E-Die the one to get these days? Will the following kit work with X99? I'm ditching Skylake and going back to X99 ... I'm way too fickle, my wife is going to ban me from NCIX/Newegg pretty soon!!

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231913


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Quick question guys, is Samsung E-Die the one to get these days? Will the following kit work with X99? I'm ditching Skylake and going back to X99 ... I'm way too fickle, my wife is going to ban me from NCIX/Newegg pretty soon!!
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231913


Multiple users have had decent results with that kit, yes.


----------



## Kimir

3200c14 B-die would be a better choice tho. But it doesn't exist in 4x4GB, since B-die are 8GB or 16GB sticks.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> 3200c14 B-die would be a better choice tho. But it doesn't exist in 4x4GB, since B-die are 8GB or 16GB sticks.


There are plenty decent X99 QVL 16GB kits out there already too. Best to stick to these.


----------



## MR-e

B-Die is very tempting, but the premium is insane in Canada, $400 + tax & shipping


----------



## Kimir

You have it worse than me then, it's 380-400€ with tax and shipped here.
but well, the ones you linked are 16GB for $200, make sense that twice the density is twice the price.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> B-Die is very tempting, but the premium is insane in Canada, $400 + tax & shipping


----------



## MR-e

Why must you tempt me further. I'm closing this tab for now and maybe do something productive at work to get away from that screenshot


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Quick question guys, is Samsung E-Die the one to get these days? Will the following kit work with X99? I'm ditching Skylake and going back to X99 ... I'm way too fickle, my wife is going to ban me from NCIX/Newegg pretty soon!!
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231913


I had that exact kit and it is the 16GB entries from me in Scone's table. (Sold them a couple of weeks ago in the market). On x99 3200c15 (tight) worked fine at 1.425V


----------



## Kimir

Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 3200Mhz C13-13-13-28 1T --- 1.4v --- SA 0.970v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- SAT 1H




And started a 5H test with reduced voltage (1.407v measured on all channel) for the night, so far (45 mins) so good.


----------



## Silent Scone

Glad you managed to bag a set that worked for you









Personally having the refresh that high didn't work out for me. It did for the most part, but I experienced PFN list corruption at a time not long after testing it. I'm not convinced GSAT tests this aspect as well as it does others.

Would have to ask JP and see how he's found it


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Keep DRAM voltage below 1.5v. Depending on the age of the kit and binning process it may well be the same IC but the capabilities at each bin will be different. You've paid for the bin you've bought, and are not guaranteed to achieve the same results as the next bin. All of GSKILL kits are handed picked which is not cheap.


After lots lots of testing, I'm currenctly at 4.57 cpu with ram at 3300, still not stable, timings I put something similar as Raja just for testing 16-18-18-38-390 and I played yesterday for a bit, ran Firestrikes, and I achieved one of my best scores 10996 I believe was my best yesterday, so I will try to lower the BCLK bits by bits until I'm (hopefully) stable, question is, since I'm noob when I tryed to get higher speeds I bumped voltage up to 1.39 lol, so should I go back to 1.35 ? I guess that maybe even cause instability, oh well, I'm about to figure out now !

RAM overclocking session 2 here I come









Oh and yea handpicked you say ? I see.. so it might make sense this kit can't do at least 3466mhz stable.. sort of like with the GPU brands like EVGA when you buy it, and you know they have been hand selecting all sorts of higher % chance overclocking and whatnot, sort of reduce the chances for you to reach a high overclocking









PS: should I just lower the timings also? if so which ones, since my CPU is stable at 4.6 (or like 4.59 at least) and I'm already lower than that, perhaps I can get my CPU at the speed limit while bumping the RAM to whatever it would be for that CPU speed.

Edit : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/10603977? score with 1.35V Will do some testing see how stable it is


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> After lots lots of testing, I'm currenctly at 4.57 cpu with ram at 3300, still not stable, timings I put something similar as Raja just for testing 16-18-18-38-390 and I played yesterday for a bit, ran Firestrikes, and I achieved one of my best scores 10996 I believe was my best yesterday, so I will try to lower the BCLK bits by bits until I'm (hopefully) stable, question is, since I'm noob when I tryed to get higher speeds I bumped voltage up to 1.39 lol, so should I go back to 1.35 ? I guess that maybe even cause instability, oh well, I'm about to figure out now !
> 
> RAM overclocking session 2 here I come
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and yea handpicked you say ? I see.. so it might make sense this kit can't do at least 3466mhz stable.. sort of like with the GPU brands like EVGA when you buy it, and you know they have been hand selecting all sorts of higher % chance overclocking and whatnot, sort of reduce the chances for you to reach a high overclocking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: should I just lower the timings also? if so which ones, since my CPU is stable at 4.6 (or like 4.59 at least) and I'm already lower than that, perhaps I can get my CPU at the speed limit while bumping the RAM to whatever it would be for that CPU speed.
> 
> Edit : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/10603977? score with 1.35V Will do some testing see how stable it is


Firestrike is sensitive to memory latency, and as far as benching goes this is ok, but as a stability test on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the weakest it's probably a 1. You need to test your settings long term with the options available in the original post. You also might want to reaffirm other aspects of your overclock are stable before assessing memory stability


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 3200Mhz C13-13-13-28 1T --- 1.4v --- SA 0.970v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- SAT 1H
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And started a 5H test with reduced voltage (1.407v measured on all channel) for the night, so far (45 mins) so good.


Nice! RMA or refund on the other kit?
Frankly - I think x99/5960X will be a strong platform for quite a while. Already 1.5(?) years in? This on will eventually end up in my wife's tax business, down tuned to a pizza-finger-proof configuration.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Glad you managed to bag a set that worked for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally having the refresh that high didn't work out for me. It did for the most part, but I experienced PFN list corruption at a time not long after testing it. I'm not convinced GSAT tests this aspect as well as it does others.
> 
> Would have to ask JP and see how he's found it


Still the same - no problems, but... what's a PFN list? (still same even with Faw too low!)
FOLDing in 12 cores too


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice! RMA or refund on the other kit?
> Frankly - I think x99/5960X will be a strong platform for quite a while. Already 1.5(?) years in? This on will eventually end up in my wife's tax business, down tuned to a pizza-finger-proof configuration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still the same - no problems, but... what's a PFN list? (still same even with Faw too low!)
> FOLDing in 12 cores too


PFN_List_Corrupt is a bug check that means a page was read incorrectly. It stands for Page Frame Number (or Page Frame Database), which is Windows method of indexing physical pages from DRAM. It tracks everything that has a physical page. If paged into memory that is inaccessible or corrupted for whatever reason you can receive this bugcheck. DRAM isn't the only cause as it may also be driver related, or Cache.

I'm making an almost brash correlation there in truth, but tREFI was one of the only things that had changed, and it did pass 2 hours of GSAT. Since reducing the interval it's not reoccurred nor has it ever happened before.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'm making an almost brash correlation there in truth, but tREFI was one of the only things that had changed, and it did pass 2 hours of GSAT. Since reducing the interval it's not reoccurred nor has it ever happened before.


Hello

It can be difficult to catch instability because of insufficient tREFI. The total refresh operation is done in a number of smaller operations so all cells are not refreshed at the same time. Each cell also has a slightly different leakage rate. And if tRFC is not set so the charge pumps are given sufficient recovery time not all cells may be fully refreshed. Compounding this is the introduction of Fine Granularity Refresh for DDR4. When testing memory it's hit and miss as far as testing a cell that may have suffered from an insufficient refresh time.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> It can be difficult to catch instability because of insufficient tREFI. The total refresh operation is done in a number of smaller operations so all cells are not refreshed at the same time. Each cell also has a slightly different leakage rate. And if tRFC is not set so the charge pumps are given sufficient recovery time not all cells may be fully refreshed. Compounding this is the introduction of Fine Granularity Refresh for DDR4. When testing memory it's hit and miss as far as testing a cell that may have suffered from an insufficient refresh time.


Thanks Praz. Yeah this was a blue moon crash which may likely now never happen again, but out of morbid curiosity I'm tempted to raise the interval again to see if it's replicable. Raja has said to possibly try putting the system to sleep with lots of things suspended to DRAM. As with all things DRAM being able to repro things of this nature can take too long


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks Praz. Yeah this was a blue moon crash which may likely now never happen again, but out of morbid curiosity I'm tempted to raise the interval again to see if it's replicable. Raja has said to possible try putting the system to sleep with lots of things suspended to DRAM. As with all things DRAM being able to repro things of this nature can take too long


Hello

This paper is a couple of years old now but if you get bored offers some good insight into FGR used with DDR4.

FineGranularityRefresh.zip 986k .zip file


----------



## Silent Scone

I'll do my best. Beyond not making a joke about preemptive command draining


----------



## StrongForce

Mmmh I can do 5mn realbench @ 3328 but then it says instability detected I'm a bit lost been trying for hours lol.

Tweaking ram sure isn't an easy task, reading some posts in this thread makes me wonder if I should just give up !

Will give it a few more gos and if I can't get stable will be done for now


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Mmmh I can do 5mn realbench @ 3328 but then it says instability detected I'm a bit lost been trying for hours lol.
> 
> Tweaking ram sure isn't an easy task, reading some posts in this thread makes me wonder if I should just give up !
> 
> Will give it a few more gos and if I can't get stable will be done for now


Go to the ASUS OC guide in the OP and start from scratch. Might not be the memory. Get at least Realbench stable first, then test XMP in something like HCI memtest or Google Stress App.


----------



## MR-e

Going to get the Asus X99M-WS, have a question related to installing the ram. As per the picture below, I would install 1 matched pair into B1 & D1, then the second matched pair into A1 + C1? Or do I just populate free-willy as it won't matter?

Side question - If going with B-Die 4x8GB Kit, would it be more on the CPU IMC if the kit can do 3200 c13/14ish rather than being mobo limited by the X99M-WS? I need to stick with mATX only, so no deluxe or rampage v.


----------



## StrongForce

Woah I managed to get stable and run realbench, also here is my 3d mark 10944 I like that : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/10609079? speed @ 3 312 MHz 15 18 18 42 at first I thought I had put XMP but then those timings don't seem very XMP .. not sure, but I think I'll stay with that for now and see how it goes


----------



## Scorpion49

Got a quick question for anyone running 1.350V DDR4, do you notice your modules getting hot? I have 4x8 G-Skill Ripjaws V at 3000mhz 15-15-15-35 and they get extremely hot even with case fans blowing over them. I haven't seen RAM running hot like this even back in the 2.0V DDR2 days. I noticed because I went to plug a fan in to the header by them and touched one of the modules. I wish I had an IR thermometer to see the actual temps.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Got a quick question for anyone running 1.350V DDR4, do you notice your modules getting hot? I have 4x8 G-Skill Ripjaws V at 3000mhz 15-15-15-35 and they get extremely hot even with case fans blowing over them. I haven't seen RAM running hot like this even back in the 2.0V DDR2 days. I noticed because I went to plug a fan in to the header by them and touched one of the modules. I wish I had an IR thermometer to see the actual temps.


Double sided DIMMs tend to get a bit warmer, I was going to suggest an IR gun if you had one till I read the last part. I doubt they are getting as hot as you think with that voltage though. Fan over mine they're not even warm to the touch at 1.4v.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Double sided DIMMs tend to get a bit warmer, I was going to suggest an IR gun if you had one till I read the last part. I doubt they are getting as hot as you think with that voltage though.


I'm having heat problems in general with this build, using a Z170-WS the chipset is idling at almost 60C and the RAM feels pretty much the same. Actually, I do have some temp diode leads for my fan controller, I'll stick one by the RAM and see what it is running at.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I'm having heat problems in general with this build, using a Z170-WS the chipset is idling at almost 60C and the RAM feels pretty much the same. Actually, I do have some temp diode leads for my fan controller, I'll stick one by the RAM and see what it is running at.


Is it generally quite warm where you are? Would need to see your case and cooling setup to be able to make any assumptions. Memory temperature on these platforms really shouldn't come into question unless being extremely liberal


----------



## Kimir

My ddr4 are at 28-31°c with 24-25°c ambient, nothing "hot" here even with 1.4v.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Is it generally quite warm where you are? Would need to see your case and cooling setup to be able to make any assumptions. Memory temperature on these platforms really shouldn't come into question unless being extremely liberal


Its a blizzard outside and 64F inside haha. I had all of the same components on a Gigabyte Z170X-UD3 previously with zero issues, everything was so cool you couldn't even tell it was running. I moved over to the Z170-WS for the slot layout and better m.2 capability and its all been downhill from there.

Also, under load the diode is showing 46C between the DDR4 sticks.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Its a blizzard outside and 64F inside haha. I had all of the same components on a Gigabyte Z170X-UD3 previously with zero issues, everything was so cool you couldn't even tell it was running. I moved over to the Z170-WS for the slot layout and better m.2 capability and its all been downhill from there.
> 
> Also, under load the diode is showing 46C between the DDR4 sticks.


That's not anything to be too concerned about. I'd look at improving your case airflow though.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Its a blizzard outside and 64F inside haha. I had all of the same components on a Gigabyte Z170X-UD3 previously with zero issues, everything was so cool you couldn't even tell it was running. I moved over to the Z170-WS for the slot layout and better m.2 capability and its all been downhill from there.
> 
> Also, under load the diode is showing 46C between the DDR4 sticks.


Hello

The memory temperature is proportional to applied voltage, load and ambient conditions. These held constant between the use of different boards will result in the temperature being the same.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> The memory temperature is proportional to applied voltage, load and ambient conditions. These held constant between the use of different boards will result in the temperature being the same.


Yeah, but it isn't. I'm wondering if the voltage is actually different, because the Gigabyte board always reported 1.200V even with XMP selected.


----------



## Silent Scone

What kit is it?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What kit is it?


F4-3000C15D-16GVS two kits of 16GB. I'm going to try them at 1.200V and see what happens.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> F4-3000C15D-16GVS two kits of 16GB. I'm going to try them at 1.200V and see what happens.


I can tell you what will happen.

Nothing.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 3200Mhz C13-13-13-28 1T --- 1.4v --- SA 0.970v --- VCCIN 1.92v --- SAT 1H
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And started a 5H test with reduced voltage (1.407v measured on all channel) for the night, so far (45 mins) so good.


On the table


----------



## llantant

Hey, thinking about your posts silentscone a few pages back and I have been reading up on tREFI.

Found a good explanation by raja on another forum while googling about.

I had it set to 65000 and from all accounts that *could* cause data corruption because the charge in the cells will diminish over time.

Now, any of you bother to change trefi and if so what do you change it too or is it just best to be left on AUTO?

The post is 2013 so does this still apply for DDR4? I take it that it does.

** I have lost some decent gains in maxxmem reverting to auto but hey ho.

Also, If I change from 65000 to Auto then do I have to do another memtest/stressapp??

I also found this http://utaharch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/a-dram-refresh-tutorial.html

*** Auto is 11440.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> On the table


Tiny mistake you did there, put 2800 instead of 3200 on the table.








Also, shouldn't you normalize the format and remove the "C" or "C-" in front of the timing on the table, so it look all the same on every entry?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Got a quick question for anyone running 1.350V DDR4, do you notice your modules getting hot? I have 4x8 G-Skill Ripjaws V at 3000mhz 15-15-15-35 and they get extremely hot even with case fans blowing over them. I haven't seen RAM running hot like this even back in the 2.0V DDR2 days. I noticed because I went to plug a fan in to the header by them and touched one of the modules. I wish I had an IR thermometer to see the actual temps.


Spoken like a true benchmark thread guy. Mr. Csalt would be proud.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Tiny mistake you did there, put 2800 instead of 3200 on the table.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, shouldn't you normalize the format and remove the "C" or "C-" in front of the timing on the table, so it look all the same on every entry?


Done from my iPhone, I'll change them this morning


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Hey, thinking about your posts silentscone a few pages back and I have been reading up on tREFI.
> 
> Found a good explanation by raja on another forum while googling about.
> 
> I had it set to 65000 and from all accounts that *could* cause data corruption because the charge in the cells will diminish over time.
> 
> Now, any of you bother to change trefi and if so what do you change it too or is it just best to be left on AUTO?
> 
> The post is 2013 so does this still apply for DDR4? I take it that it does.
> 
> ** I have lost some decent gains in maxxmem reverting to auto but hey ho.
> 
> Also, If I change from 65000 to Auto then do I have to do another memtest/stressapp??
> 
> I also found this http://utaharch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/a-dram-refresh-tutorial.html
> 
> *** Auto is 11440.


If you're not sure it's best to leave it in auto. Beyond that not sure whatever to tell you. If you're not experiencing problems with the value used then it's likely ok. Also for key differences read the paper on FGR that Praz posted. Best honestly to see what works for you and report if you experience any changes.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If you're not sure it's best to leave it in auto. Beyond that not sure whatever to tell you. If you're not experiencing problems with the value used then it's likely ok. Also for key differences read the paper on FGR that Praz posted. Best honestly to see what works for you and report if you experience any changes.


Ok no problem.

I was not experiencing any issues I know about on 65000 but I was worrying that maybe some kind of data was becoming corrupted over time that I am unaware of.

I will have a read through that paper though thanks.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I can tell you what will happen.
> 
> Nothing.


Well, I started at the bottom 2133mhz auto since I was working on my CPU OC, I've now moved up to 2666mhz 15-15-15-35 1.200V and the sticks remain at room temp after 6 hours of P95 blend. I wish I could get a manual voltage reading off of this board, I can't get anything off of the cap solder points on the back as it seems to be coated. PCH is still an oven though, its showing 62C under load while the CPU barely breaks 45C.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ok no problem.
> 
> I was not experiencing any issues I know about on 65000 but I was worrying that maybe some kind of data was becoming corrupted over time that I am unaware of.
> 
> I will have a read through that paper though thanks.


There isn't an easy way to flag it, that's pretty much the question at hand. As I posted earlier it was suggested by Raja to possibly try suspending things to DRAM that consume a lot of memory.


----------



## Phankeys

Morning, guys.
I really need some help and hope someone from here could same me from the headache.
On december I bought a new computer and built on on my own.

I5 6600k
Asus Z170 Pro Gaming
EVGA 750+ Gold
Cryorig H7
Kingston Hyperx Fury 2x4GB 2666MHz
AMD R9 390

Everything was working well until I decided I wanted more memory. So I bought another 2x4GB f2666MHz from Kingston, the same Hyperx Fury.
Since then I haven't been able to use the computer.
After tweaking VCCIO and CPU System Agents voltage I managed to boot windows and even open the browser for a few minutes. And it shows up as 16GB in windows.
I was yesterday the whole day trying to change the voltages to get it to work but failed.

I contacted ASUS customer service and they just copied me an answer I had already found on the internet.
Told me to set System Agent to 1.25V and VCCIO to 1.20V. It doesn't work.
I tried enabling and disabling the XMP and even underclocking the memory to 2133MHz.
Right now all I want is a stable system with the 16GB I bought,

Could someone please help me?


----------



## dhaine

It is possible your new ram is broken.
First you should try your new ram only slotted (remove the old stick of ram), and perform some test to see if you have issues or not, like HCI in the header of this topic, or memtest on a usb stick for a few hours.
Can you also check memory timings and precise voltage with a software like hwinfo64 (you can have memory timings, and DRAM voltage in that).
if there's no issues then you can put your other new ram and probably will need to lower to 2133 and "higher" timings to at least get it workable, then you will work from there


----------



## Phankeys

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhaine*
> 
> It is possible your new ram is broken.
> First you should try your new ram only slotted (remove the old stick of ram), and perform some test to see if you have issues or not, like HCI in the header of this topic, or memtest on a usb stick for a few hours.
> Can you also check memory timings and precise voltage with a software like hwinfo64 (you can have memory timings, and DRAM voltage in that).
> if there's no issues then you can put your other new ram and probably will need to lower to 2133 and "higher" timings to at least get it workable, then you will work from there


Thanks for answering!
I just removed my old sticks and plugged the new ones and ran HCI memtest 100% with 0 errors. So I think the new memories are also fine.
I really don't know what is the problem with these new boards if people try to use more than 2 sticks of memory. Everything works flawlessly if I use only 2 x 4GB memories.
I guess, I will stay with 8GB of RAM (2x4GB and try to sell the brand new sticks I bought). :/


----------



## shremi

Well its a really sad day







i finally received my G skill kit from newegg had to import it and payed fees for importing it and a stick is DOA i tried every single slot on my x99 and nada also on mi z170 board .... There probably isn't much i can do about it right ????


----------



## Scrimstar

Hi

I was wondering which RAM sticks are good for overclocking and speed/timing. Maybe not one with too crazy of a heatsink so I won't have problems with adding a heatsink (probable h100 series).

was looking at these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233853


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> Hi
> 
> I was wondering which RAM sticks are good for overclocking and speed/timing. Maybe not one with too crazy of a heatsink so I won't have problems with adding a heatsink (probable h100 series).
> 
> was looking at these
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233853


I had those sticks I was not a fan.

Personally I am all about G skill.

Have a look at the tridentZ or the Ripjaws.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phankeys*
> 
> Thanks for answering!
> I just removed my old sticks and plugged the new ones and ran HCI memtest 100% with 0 errors. So I think the new memories are also fine.
> I really don't know what is the problem with these new boards if people try to use more than 2 sticks of memory. Everything works flawlessly if I use only 2 x 4GB memories.
> I guess, I will stay with 8GB of RAM (2x4GB and try to sell the brand new sticks I bought). :/


Instability due to overclocking that needs to be dialed out due to mixing memory kits. Always buy singular kits for the density you want to be using. There is nothing wrong with the boards, the issue is entirely between chair and keyboard

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview

Have a read of the above.


----------



## shremi

Its a real shame because this sticks are quite nice ... Just set XMP and changed to 1T







going to try to overclock as much as i can now before i have to send them back....


----------



## Formula383

I have a really bad question, What would happen if i used liquid ultra on my memory chips? anyone crazy enough to test it out for me lol. I mean i dont know what material the ram is made from but its not aluminum XD


----------



## Kimir

There is no need to, more risk than gain imo, DDR4 doesn't run hot at all.

Things are weird sometimes, ran 8 freaking hours of GSAT last night, since FFW has ended I went again into finding the lowest voltage I could get things stable. In the end, to pass that I was a 1.4v in bios like my previous entry (anything lower would fail within 2h).
Then this morning, since it passed GSAT I went in windows 10 and started HCI. After 15% or something I had 1 error on an instance, huh







. Well, back to bios and set 1.405v and started it again then went to work, I'll see what's up when I get home.


----------



## Strife21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Apologies.
> 
> It was in the sky lake overclock thread.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/5280#post_24799441
> 
> Here.
> 
> On my phone currently so can't link exact post but it's on that page.
> 
> Praz used 2570 per or if you have pro you can go a little higher than that as error stated in the post.


Thanks man


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> There is no need to, more risk than gain imo, DDR4 doesn't run hot at all.
> 
> Things are weird sometimes, ran 8 freaking hours of GSAT last night, since FFW has ended I went again into finding the lowest voltage I could get things stable. In the end, to pass that I was a 1.4v in bios like my previous entry (anything lower would fail within 2h).
> Then this morning, since it passed GSAT I went in windows 10 and started HCI. After 15% or something I had 1 error on an instance, huh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Well, back to bios and set 1.405v and started it again then went to work, I'll see what's up when I get home.


Kimir - are you running any sensor reading programs while running HCI? Like AID64? wiith AID64 try dialing back the number of things being flashed to the desktop. I've had a few examples where that single error (after long hours) might have been due to some type of polling/posting clash in AIDA and not faulty ram.


----------



## moorhen2

moorhen2- - - 5960x @4.5/4.2- - -3200Mhz-CL13-16-16-35-1T- - -1.430v- - -SA +0.250000v- - -HCI 1000%


----------



## Phankeys

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Instability due to overclocking that needs to be dialed out due to mixing memory kits. Always buy singular kits for the density you want to be using. There is nothing wrong with the boards, the issue is entirely between chair and keyboard
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview
> 
> Have a read of the above.


Well, thank you for your lovely answer. I can see I am the problem. I didn't have much money when I bought my first 2x4GB of RAM and I really thought I could upgrade it later by adding more 2x4GB of the SAME type of RAM from the SAME producer.
So I will probably try to sell of return the latest modules I bought.

And if there's no problem with the board could you please tell me why people who bought 4 modules of RAM from the same package are having the same issue? System posts fine with 2 modules installed but not with 4.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phankeys*
> 
> Well, thank you for your lovely answer. I can see I am the problem. I didn't have much money when I bought my first 2x4GB of RAM and I really thought I could upgrade it later by adding more 2x4GB of the SAME type of RAM from the SAME producer.
> So I will probably try to sell of return the latest modules I bought.
> 
> And if there's no problem with the board could you please tell me why people who bought 4 modules of RAM from the same package are having the same issue? System posts fine with 2 modules installed but not with 4.


Most probably for the same reasons specified above, in that stability need be dialled in correctly. If you read the article I linked you, it might become more apparent why that is.

Including the part where you attempted to make IT APPARENT, that there SHOULDN'T be an ISSUE by HIGHLIGHTING why you think there shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Kimir - are you running any sensor reading programs while running HCI? Like AID64? wiith AID64 try dialing back the number of things being flashed to the desktop. I've had a few examples where that single error (after long hours) might have been due to some type of polling/posting clash in AIDA and not faulty ram.


Yes, I usually kick OHM and real temp but leave Aida OSD (2 seconds refresh interval), also had the display driver crashing, that's probably related as well. Windows doesn't really like not having some free memory to eat lol.

Edit: came back home and nothing on desktop, looked at the event viewer, bsod 1e in there, oh well, gonna bump my vcore back to 1.26 and start again, hid everything this time. Still getting the display driver crashing lol.
Guess who's gonna do some more dram binning this week, look like the other shop that listed the 3200c14 finally have them in stock, but 40€ less, including shipping! Oh


----------



## Phankeys

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Most probably for the same reasons specified above, in that stability need be dialled in correctly. If you read the article I linked you, it might become more apparent why that is.
> 
> Including the part where you attempted to make IT APPARENT, that there SHOULDN'T be an ISSUE by HIGHLIGHTING why you think there shouldn't be an issue.


I just don't know why you could give me an answer being polite.
I appreciate the fact that you took your time sending me the link and pointing me out the issue. I had no idea that there are incompatibility issues by using the same kind of memories.
And that's why I asked, because I would like to learn and not make the same mistakes in the future.
Anyway, I messaged Kingston and their awesome customer's service is going to send me a package of 2x8GB DDR4 2666MHz and I will send them both packages of 2x4GB DDR4 2666MHz.

Thanks for making me feel welcome


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phankeys*
> 
> I just don't know why you could give me an answer being polite.
> I appreciate the fact that you took your time sending me the link and pointing me out the issue. I had no idea that there are incompatibility issues by using the same kind of memories.
> And that's why I asked, because I would like to learn and not make the same mistakes in the future.
> Anyway, I messaged Kingston and their awesome customer's service is going to send me a package of 2x8GB DDR4 2666MHz and I will send them both packages of 2x4GB DDR4 2666MHz.
> 
> Thanks for making me feel welcome


That's pretty good of Kingston actually, great service. If you're talking about me using the phrase between chair and keyboard, it's not much different to automatically assuming there is an issue with the boards themselves









Sometimes a kick in the right direction is what is needed instead of beating around the bush


----------



## Desolutional

I wonder how good these new LPX kits are going to be that Corsair are bringing out. Had a bad experience with G.Skill so RNGing a set of LPX instead.


----------



## Menthol

Scone,
How are you finding that new kit, can you clock them past 4000? did you post a screen of AIDA bandwidth


----------



## Scrimstar

Are the 16GB sticks harder to OC? Would be less chance to have a bad stick









http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232206&cm_re=g_skill_ddr4_3200-_-20-232-206-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232230&cm_re=g_skill_ddr4_3200-_-20-232-230-_-Product


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Scone,
> How are you finding that new kit, can you clock them past 4000? did you post a screen of AIDA bandwidth


Don't have a new kit bud, least not on Z170. Still using TG Xtreme 3866 C18, one of the original high bins. Can get the kit to post at 4133 on the Impact with the right amount of voltage but nothing you could deem stable.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> Are the 16GB sticks harder to OC? Would be less chance to have a bad stick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232206&cm_re=g_skill_ddr4_3200-_-20-232-206-_-Product
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232230&cm_re=g_skill_ddr4_3200-_-20-232-230-_-Product


The higher the density the more difficult things will be, personally haven't overclocked 16GB DIMMs though. Shouldn't have much trouble getting the kits stable at the XMP though.


----------



## Bloodymight

Can I use that ASRock timing configurator with my x99 Extreme6?

Restarting for every little change gets kinda annoying in the long run.

Edit:
nope, i cant... + timings seem kinda off, at least it got my board name right










EDIT2: AAHA

Gotta install 3.0.5 to make it work ..


----------



## MR-e

^ I'm not sure about changing timings within Windows, but I believe the better route would be to change parameters within the UEFI.

On another note, Puro just dropped off these bad boys at my office


----------



## Strife21

Memory: G.Skill DDR4 3000mhz Rip Jaws 4 2x8gb F4-3000C15D-16GRK
Strife21--i56600K @4.6/4.6---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.40v---SA 1.15v--VCCIO 1.20v --HCI 1733%

Running CPU at 1.35v and level 4 LLC

Prior to bios 1402 on the Asus Maximus Hero VIII I was not able to get these stable at 1T. This bios has seemed to help.


----------



## MR-e

I thought an LLC of lvl4 would induce less voltage when under load and actually have a bit of droop. Didn't know it overshoot by .01v


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> I thought an LLC of lvl4 would induce less voltage when under load and actually have a bit of droop. Didn't know it overshoot by .01v


Hewllo

Doubtful you are seeing 0.01V overshoot above unity with LLC set to 4. Please describe testing methodology, equipment used and settling time.


----------



## Bloodymight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> ^ I'm not sure about changing timings within Windows, but I believe the better route would be to change parameters within the UEFI.


I kinda did that for the last past few days







and so far it works pretty good(no problems) restarting for every small change is x.x

Does anyone here have an ASRock board BCLK who can explain me how I can OC my BCLK strap?

I can't seem to raise my BCLK(strap) at all or I don't understand how it works on my x99 Extreme6 /3.1, there is one options which sais BCLK/PCIE Ratio which i can change to 1, 1.25, 1.66, 2.0(or something like that) but it doesn't do anything at all.








Can't OC my RAM past 3200 thx to it.









Am I doing something wrong?

UEFI looks like this btw


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Memory: G.Skill DDR4 3000mhz Rip Jaws 4 2x8gb F4-3000C15D-16GRK
> Strife21--i56600K @4.6/4.6---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.40v---SA 1.15v--VCCIO 1.20v --HCI 1733%
> 
> Running CPU at 1.35v and level 4 LLC
> 
> Prior to bios 1402 on the Asus Maximus Hero VIII I was not able to get these stable at 1T. This bios has seemed to help.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hewllo
> 
> Doubtful you are seeing 0.01V overshoot above unity with LLC set to 4. Please describe testing methodology, equipment used and settling time.


Hi Praz,

I was just basing that comment from the CPUz screen and the posted 1.35v + llc 4.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Hi Praz,
> 
> I was just basing that comment from the CPUz screen and the posted 1.35v + llc 4.


Hello

There is nothing in that screenshot regarding overshoot.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> There is nothing in that screenshot regarding overshoot.


Can you explain why his screen shows 1.36V then? He indicated a bios parameter of 1.35V with llc 4. Is this just a case of software error?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Memory: G.Skill DDR4 3000mhz Rip Jaws 4 2x8gb F4-3000C15D-16GRK
> Strife21--i56600K @4.6/4.6---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.40v---SA 1.15v--VCCIO 1.20v --HCI 1733%
> 
> Running CPU at 1.35v and level 4 LLC
> 
> Prior to bios 1402 on the Asus Maximus Hero VIII I was not able to get these stable at 1T. This bios has seemed to help.


Nice







Will add later


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Can you explain why his screen shows 1.36V then? He indicated a bios parameter of 1.35V with llc 4. Is this just a case of software error?


You need to read up on and understand terminology first, then take more than a passing gander at regulation. Most of the things discussed on forums regarding voltage regulation - including what you are caught up in at present - are a result of misunderstanding and a lack of knowing what is important.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Can you explain why his screen shows 1.36V then? He indicated a bios parameter of 1.35V with llc 4. Is this just a case of software error?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> You need to read up on and understand terminology first, then take more than a passing gander at regulation. Most of the things discussed on forums regarding voltage regulation - including what you are caught up in at present - are a result of misunderstanding and a lack of knowing what is important.


This ^^

Overshoot is a transient response occurring during the settling time of the circuit before the steady state voltage is achieved. There is no information in that screenshot that allows this to be determined.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> You need to read up on and understand terminology first, then take more than a passing gander at regulation. Most of the things discussed on forums regarding voltage regulation - including what you are caught up in at present - are a result of misunderstanding and a lack of knowing what is important.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> This ^^
> 
> Overshoot is a transient response occurring during the settling time of the circuit before the steady state voltage is achieved. There is no information in that screenshot that allows this to be determined.


Oh, so it's not the actual stabilized cpu vcore displaying in cpuz... to measure the overshoot would require a scope to see the switching frequency of the idle / load transition correct?

I am confused because I thought with the uefi set to 1.35v and a lower llc level of 4, cpuz would be displaying less than 1.35v on the vcore when under load. my hardware is currently boxed up right now waiting on more parts, so I can't test :s


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Oh, so it's not the actual stabilized cpu vcore displaying in cpuz... to measure the overshoot would require a scope to see the switching frequency of the idle / load transition correct?
> 
> I am confused because I thought with the uefi set to 1.35v and a lower llc level of 4, cpuz would be displaying less than 1.35v on the vcore when under load. my hardware is currently boxed up right now waiting on more parts, so I can't test :s


I think the new LLC applies to input voltage instead of vCore


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Oh, so it's not the actual stabilized cpu vcore displaying in cpuz... to measure the overshoot would require a scope to see the switching frequency of the idle / load transition correct?
> 
> I am confused because I thought with the uefi set to 1.35v and a lower llc level of 4, cpuz would be displaying less than 1.35v on the vcore when under load. my hardware is currently boxed up right now waiting on more parts, so I can't test :s


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> I think the new LLC applies to input voltage instead of vCore


Hello

Actual loaded voltage is related to the level of LLC used but has nothing to do with overshoot. LLC acts on VCORE for all UEFI versions.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Actual loaded voltage is related to the level of LLC used but has nothing to do with overshoot. LLC acts on VCORE for all UEFI versions.


Right, I was misusing the overshoot term as it's specific to something else when describing the loaded vcore and llc level I saw in the previous post.


----------



## Kimir

LLC doesn't affect vcore on this platform, but input voltage (vccin).


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> LLC doesn't affect vcore on this platform, but input voltage (vccin).


Hello

I think people need to state what they are referring to in a mixed platform thread. The topic being discussed was in reference to a screenshot of Skylake which LLC affects VCORE.


----------



## Strife21

Man I didn't think stating I used LLC4 was going to cause so much talk haha. I simply just put it there so people knew what settings I was using in the UEFI. I am using adaptive vcore at 1.35v and llc4. That screen shot is so close to 1.35v at load I don't think its any kind of issue regardless.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Man I didn't think stating I used LLC4 was going to cause so much talk haha. I simply just put it there so people knew what settings I was using in the UEFI. I am using adaptive vcore at 1.35v and llc4. That screen shot is so close to 1.35v at load I don't think its any kind of issue regardless.


If that is the LLC you are using then it's helpful for others. People misusing certain terminology or slight variation is voltage shown within the OS as if there is some kind of problem there, isn't.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I think people need to state what they are referring to in a mixed platform thread. The topic being discussed was in reference to a screenshot of Skylake which LLC affects VCORE.


That's cause it doesn't have the FIVR right? I hope BW-E keeps the FIVR.


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> That's cause it doesn't have the FIVR right? I hope BW-E keeps the FIVR.


Broadwell-E has to have a FIVR to work on X99...


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> Broadwell-E has to have a FIVR to work on X99...


Yeah, and a better IMC so we can start using those Z170 binned kits fingers crossed. Also the G.Skill kit seems to play nicely with the new LPX modules. They *mix* really well at 2666MHz. 3200MHz is still a pipe dream with Z170 kits on X99; BW-E had better fix that. Then again, I do have a fairly weak IMC.


----------



## Tennobanzai

What's the best way to find out all my RAM timing/settings? It seems the typical packaging on G.Skill or others only do the basics such as 16-16-16-36-2. What about the rest?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> moorhen2- - - 5960x @4.5/4.2- - -3200Mhz-CL13-16-16-35-1T- - -1.430v- - -SA +0.250000v- - -HCI 1000%


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strife21*
> 
> Memory: G.Skill DDR4 3000mhz Rip Jaws 4 2x8gb F4-3000C15D-16GRK
> Strife21--i56600K @4.6/4.6---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.40v---SA 1.15v--VCCIO 1.20v --HCI 1733%
> 
> Running CPU at 1.35v and level 4 LLC
> 
> Prior to bios 1402 on the Asus Maximus Hero VIII I was not able to get these stable at 1T. This bios has seemed to help.


Results added


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai*
> 
> What's the best way to find out all my RAM timing/settings? It seems the typical packaging on G.Skill or others only do the basics such as 16-16-16-36-2. What about the rest?


AIDA64 > Motherboard > Chipset > "Memory Timings" for your current settings. If you want the XMP profile, AIDA64 > Motherboard > SPD > "Extreme Memory Profile v2.0"

---

Also just got the new LPX kit and there are two XMP presets for 3200MHz: both identical bar CL. They are 16-18-18-36 or 25-18-18-36. Not sure why one of them has CL way up to 25. All I know is that they wouldn't X99 POST with Z170 XMP settings. Work perfectly fine at 2666MHz. Might try CL25 later and see if it makes a difference (highly doubt it).


----------



## Kimir

Got the new kit today, if that's not new ahah, manufactured last week.


Unfortunately, the kit isn't really good. On the initial binning (single dimm in B1), the whole kit is worst than even my first one. One of the dimm is the absolute worst of the 3 kits I got in my hands.
I did a run at 3200c13 @1.41v on SAT for 1 hour, resulted in a fail with 1 hardware incident.
So out of 12 dimm, 1 was DOA, 1 was much better than the average and 1 was really bad compared to the average.

Now let's see what I can do with 64GB.









Yeah I'm putting a healthy amount of volt into them to begin with. It already require 1.41v to pass training with those timings.

Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 8x8GB 3200Mhz C13-13-13-28 2T --- 1.43v --- SA 0.980v --- VCCIN 1.96v --- SAT 1H
1T wouldn't do it no matter what (loosen secondary and up to 1.45v), so 2T it is. Even that is a no go. 1 error too.


Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 64GB (8x8GB) 3200Mhz C14-14-14-32 2T --- 1.37v --- SA 0.980v --- VCCIN 1.96v --- SAT 1H


----------



## Silent Scone

That's still pretty good going considering


----------



## Formula383

Still waiting for 3800Mhz+ for my 64GB 2011v3


----------



## moorhen2

moorhen2- - - 5960x @4.5/4.1- - -3340Mhz-CL14-16-16-36-1T- - -1.420v- - -SA +0.250000v- - -HCI 1000%


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Got the new kit today, if that's not new ahah, manufactured last week.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the kit isn't really good. On the initial binning (single dimm in B1), the whole kit is worst than even my first one. One of the dimm is the absolute worst of the 3 kits I got in my hands.
> I did a run at 3200c13 @1.41v on SAT for 1 hour, resulted in a fail with 1 hardware incident.
> So out of 12 dimm, 1 was DOA, 1 was much better than the average and 1 was really bad compared to the average.
> 
> Now let's see what I can do with 64GB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm putting a healthy amount of volt into them to begin with. It already require 1.41v to pass training with those timings.
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 8x8GB 3200Mhz C13-13-13-28 2T --- 1.43v --- SA 0.980v --- VCCIN 1.96v --- SAT 1H
> 1T wouldn't do it no matter what (loosen secondary and up to 1.45v), so 2T it is. Even that is a no go. 1 error too.
> 
> 
> Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 64GB (8x8GB) 3200Mhz C14-14-14-32 2T --- 1.37v --- SA 0.980v --- VCCIN 1.96v --- SAT 1H


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> moorhen2- - - 5960x @4.5/4.1- - -3340Mhz-CL14-16-16-36-1T- - -1.420v- - -SA +0.250000v- - -HCI 1000%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


And on the table







. Pretty nice result there Kimir with 64GB


----------



## Kimir

Thanks.









This is upsetting however:
12 freaking hours of SAT at c13 all good

then let's give HCI a test, same settings


----------



## Desolutional

Cache instability could cause HCI errors? I usually do two runs of GSAT. One run of 3 hours, then another 3 hour run after cold booting to let DRAM Training occur. Training issues can sometimes cause these random instability instances in some cases.


----------



## moorhen2

moorhen2- - - 5960x @4.47/4.2- - -3400Mhz-CL16-17-17-35-1T- - -1.390v- - -SA +0.250000v- - -HCI 1000%


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> *Cache instability could cause HCI errors?* I usually do two runs of GSAT. One run of 3 hours, then another 3 hour run after cold booting to let DRAM Training occur. Training issues can sometimes cause these random instability instances in some cases.


I believe it can, yes.
Maybe my VSA need more fine tuning here, I have been changing from 0.125 to 0.140 offset without seeing a difference, so I'm 0.135 right now which give me 0.985v. Perhaps the fact that I have my display driver crashing while doing HCI is an indication to that (this bothered me, so I did the simple workaround = disable my 980Ti in Device Manager lol) .
Wasn't sure I did 3200c14 SAT with 1.37v or 1.38v. Well I did the HCI run with 1.38v ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Kimir --- 5960X @ 4.6/4.3Ghz --- 32GB (4x8GB) 3200Mhz C14-14-14-32 1T --- 1.38v --- SA 0.985v --- VCCIN 1.96v --- HCI 1000%


Starting the c13 again for the night, with 1.43v. Let's see what happens (sigh, error at 60% ish, meh 1.44v and of to bed).








edit :even 1.44 doesn't do it, 500% overnight, multiple instances with 1 error and 1 with 3 errors.


----------



## Jpmboy

Guys - Green team needs your support: http://www.overclock.net/t/1586140/3d-fanboy-competition-2016-nvidia-vs-amd/300_20#post_24895682


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Guys - Green team needs your support: http://www.overclock.net/t/1586140/3d-fanboy-competition-2016-nvidia-vs-amd/300_20#post_24895682


I am a red, lol!!


----------



## Kimir

Well, I'm green. I'll see if I can do something with my 780Ti's and my 980Ti. The 980 KPE is in a box tho


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Guys - Green team needs your support: http://www.overclock.net/t/1586140/3d-fanboy-competition-2016-nvidia-vs-amd/300_20#post_24895682


Can we submit using SLI ????


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Guys - Green team needs your support: http://www.overclock.net/t/1586140/3d-fanboy-competition-2016-nvidia-vs-amd/300_20#post_24895682


Ill get on this in the week! Will submit X1 and X2.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Guys - Green team needs your support: http://www.overclock.net/t/1586140/3d-fanboy-competition-2016-nvidia-vs-amd/300_20#post_24895682


Forget about red vs green. I need questions for Intel's PR, CPU, and storage folks for the next podcast:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1590822/intels-dan-snyder-will-be-on-the-next-asus-straight-edge-podcast-ask-your-questions-here


----------



## shremi

Guys maybe you can help me out here i am trying to figure out my error ....

So i bought the Ripjaws V [email protected] and one stick was DOA so i went with the trident Z [email protected] recieved them booted all sticks working fine .... This test was used in my x99 build which i am now taking apart and moving so i moved the ram to my skylake rig and everything seems to work properly i enable XMP and boots perfectly but when i try to change de Timings from 2T to 1T i cant even get them to post ... i have tried to up the ram voltage but still no boot .... If i recall right Skylake has a much better IMC than Haswell-e So what am i doing wrong here ???


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Guys maybe you can help me out here i am trying to figure out my error ....
> 
> So i bought the Ripjaws V [email protected] and one stick was DOA so i went with the trident Z [email protected] recieved them booted all sticks working fine .... This test was used in my x99 build which i am now taking apart and moving so i moved the ram to my skylake rig and everything seems to work properly i enable XMP and boots perfectly but when i try to change de Timings from 2T to 1T i cant even get them to post ... i have tried to up the ram voltage but still no boot .... If i recall right Skylake has a much better IMC than Haswell-e So what am i doing wrong here ???


Need more info, what board etc

Try FCLK at 800 and setting a manual IO and SA voltage of 1.2v


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> IMO
> Need more info, what board etc
> 
> Try FCLK at 800 and setting a manual IO and SA voltage of 1.2v


Sorry for this i thought my skylake build was up.... I am using the msi Z170 TITANIUM I have tried both IO and SA on 1.20 and still no boot going to try folk now and report back


----------



## Silent Scone

MSI use a daisy chain setup on DRAM with that motherboard, four sticks of 8GB at 3200 1T will be more difficult on that board than say one of the ASUS variants with T-Topology. Although I have no experience with that board, but with tuning I'd be surprised if you couldn't get it working eventually at that frequency.


----------



## nSone

Guys, if anyone with hero viii could help me out

Currently using hyperx predator 4x4gb sticks, and having this weird issue - whatever DRAM voltage I set it offsets by ~ -0.02v [HWinfo/Bios etc. all readings are consistent] ...
ex, at stock 1.35v it's set at 1.344v, at 1.38v it offsets to 1.36v ... u get the point.

Switched to latest bios 1402, tried manual / adaptive / xmp it remained all the same

Also, when typing in values, it rounds them up to values like 1.375 or whatever

thx, Nikola.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nSone*
> 
> Guys, if anyone with hero viii could help me out
> 
> Currently using hyperx predator 4x4gb sticks, and having this weird issue - whatever DRAM voltage I set it offsets by ~ -0.02v [HWinfo/Bios etc. all readings are consistent] ...
> ex, at stock 1.35v it's set at 1.344v, at 1.38v it offsets to 1.36v ... u get the point.
> 
> Switched to latest bios 1402, tried manual / adaptive / xmp it remained all the same
> 
> Also, when typing in values, it rounds them up to values like 1.375 or whatever
> 
> thx, Nikola.


The values will never show exact. Mine does the same. Its fine.

Someone more knowledgeable than me may pipe up as to why but do not worry about it.


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> MSI use a daisy chain setup on DRAM with that motherboard, four sticks of 8GB at 3200 1T will be more difficult on that board than say one of the ASUS variants with T-Topology. Although I have no experience with that board, but with tuning I'd be surprised if you couldn't get it working eventually at that frequency.


I dont know but i think i managed to solve the issue .... i removed all of the sticks and tried to boot with 2 sticks at a time which worked ..... Then i putted back the 4 sticks and no go with the timmings .... and i even increasing the voltages on the RAM SA and IO .... My cpu is Occt stable 4.8Core /4.6Cache with 1.345 vcore so i set the cache back to 4.1 and still no boot .... Then i tried to up the vcore started with 1.375 and it booted .... Went down in 10Mv steps and all the way back to 1.345 then it booted again ... Last thing was to up the cache again to 4.6 and voila it worked.... Weird stuff happening here .... So i installed mint on a VM and sent almost all of the available ram to the VM and ran stressapp is this a valid way to do it ???

Here is a screenie of almost 4 hours of stressapp. Will this be valid ???


----------



## Silent Scone

4 hours is certainly valid, please fill out as is described in the op, though. Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected] --- 4000 -- 1.425V --- SA 1.275V


----------



## MR-e

Need help dialing in C13 with 32GB 3200MHz kit







Boots into windows fine with the following process, but I get massive errors as soon as I run HCI Memtest









Guys, what am I doing wrong?

1) Boot to UEFI -> Load Optimized Defaults
2) Set Manual timings: 13-13-13-36 1T - Rest on Auto
3) Set memory to 3200MHz
4) Set Eventual Ram Volt to 1.4V (Tried up to 1.42)
5) Set Training Volt to 1.41V (Tried up to 1.43)
6) VCSSA 0.986V (My system only plays between 0.84 - 0.98 nicely, any above or below causes instability)
7) Set Digi+ parameters to 140% Ram Current / Extreme settings
*Disabled the CPU and Ram SVID

8) Boot to Windows 10, check available ram (30.4GB)
9) Load Aida64 OSD (Side question, how do I scale it to smaller font? Default settings are huge on a 1080P Screen)
10) Load 12 Instances of HCI Memtest+ with 2400MB option

11) Press start -> within a few seconds, errors up the woozoo









I want to dial in my memory OC first before my watercooling parts arrive. Will OC Core and Cache on water. Please advise team!


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Need help dialing in C13 with 32GB 3200MHz kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boots into windows fine with the following process, but I get massive errors as soon as I run HCI Memtest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, what am I doing wrong?
> 
> 1) Boot to UEFI -> Load Optimized Defaults
> 2) Set Manual timings: 13-13-13-36 1T - Rest on Auto
> 3) Set memory to 3200MHz
> 4) Set Eventual Ram Volt to 1.4V (Tried up to 1.42)
> 5) Set Training Volt to 1.41V (Tried up to 1.43)
> 6) VCSSA 0.986V (My system only plays between 0.84 - 0.98 nicely, any above or below causes instability)
> 7) Set Digi+ parameters to 140% Ram Current / Extreme settings
> *Disabled the CPU and Ram SVID
> 
> 8) Boot to Windows 10, check available ram (30.4GB)
> 9) Load Aida64 OSD (Side question, how do I scale it to smaller font? Default settings are huge on a 1080P Screen)
> 10) Load 12 Instances of HCI Memtest+ with 2400MB option
> 
> 11) Press start -> within a few seconds, errors up the woozoo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to dial in my memory OC first before my watercooling parts arrive. Will OC Core and Cache on water. Please advise team!


I will try tonight and share my results we are using the same kit but for now i'm on z170



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected] --- 4000 -- 1.425V --- SA 1.275V















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 4 hours is certainly valid, please fill out as is described in the op, though. Thanks


Will do i will try to work CL13 tonight and see if i can get something out of it ...







i was just asking if running stressap on a VM was valid for submission


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Need help dialing in C13 with 32GB 3200MHz kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boots into windows fine with the following process, but I get massive errors as soon as I run HCI Memtest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, what am I doing wrong?
> 
> 1) Boot to UEFI -> Load Optimized Defaults
> 2) Set Manual timings: 13-13-13-36 1T - Rest on Auto
> 3) Set memory to 3200MHz
> 4) Set Eventual Ram Volt to 1.4V (Tried up to 1.42)
> 5) Set Training Volt to 1.41V (Tried up to 1.43)
> 6) VCSSA 0.986V (My system only plays between 0.84 - 0.98 nicely, any above or below causes instability)
> 7) Set Digi+ parameters to 140% Ram Current / Extreme settings
> *Disabled the CPU and Ram SVID
> 
> 8) Boot to Windows 10, check available ram (30.4GB)
> 9) Load Aida64 OSD (Side question, how do I scale it to smaller font? Default settings are huge on a 1080P Screen)
> 10) Load 12 Instances of HCI Memtest+ with 2400MB option
> 
> 11) Press start -> within a few seconds, errors up the woozoo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to dial in my memory OC first before my watercooling parts arrive. Will OC Core and Cache on water. Please advise team!


scroll down in dram timings sub menu and look for clock period. set this to 13. set eventual dram to auto and (for now) just work with VDIMM. Auto for min cache shuld work fine, but it will need to be at least 50% of ram speed (so 1600 with 3200 ram) 16x100. Bump both VCCIOs by one or two notches.

and lastly - humor me - do not run AID64 at the same time as HCI. It's sporadic, but I have several examples where it cause an error (I mean like 1) well into the run. The majority of stability ruins do not suffer this. Sporadic.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected] --- 4000 -- 1.425V --- SA 1.275V
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice!


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> scroll down in dram timings sub menu and look for clock period. set this to 13. set eventual dram to auto and (for now) just work with VDIMM. Auto for min cache shuld work fine, but it will need to be at least 50% of ram speed (so 1600 with 3200 ram) 16x100. Bump both VCCIOs by one or two notches.
> 
> and lastly - humor me - do not run AID64 at the same time as HCI. It's sporadic, but I have several examples where it cause an error (I mean like 1) well into the run. The majority of stability ruins do not suffer this. Sporadic.


Sir, YES SIR! Will try tonight after work... 8 hours to go....


----------



## Kimir

If you've got a recent bin of 3200C14, you might find it hard if not impossible to get c13 stable. I'm on my 3rd kit of them and can't get HCI stable even with 1.45v.
I'm gonna get another one next week, as long as I'm in my 14 days return period and they keep dropping the price here, I'm gonna do that. lol


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice!


daaum - what a difference between MBs. (but an understandable one considering the architecture)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Sir, YES SIR! Will try tonight after work... 8 hours to go....


let us know what you find.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> If you've got a recent bin of 3200C14, you might find it hard if not impossible to get c13 stable. I'm on my 3rd kit of them and can't get HCI stable even with 1.45v.
> I'm gonna get another one next week, as long as I'm in my 14 days return period and they keep dropping the price here, I'm gonna do that. lol


now that's not encouraging.







no chance it's the cpu IMC is there?


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> now that's not encouraging.


I know, right?!


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> now that's not encouraging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no chance it's the cpu IMC is there?


It's all fine at C14, and _it was_ fine on stressapptest... before. Now it's tricky to pass the training at 1.41v even, sometimes I lose D1.
I'm running 14-14-14-32-1T @ 1.38v that passed HCI 1000%, haven't tried to reduce that. It already takes 8 hours to get to 1000%, I haven't the time right now.

And note that I even do the binning in slot B1 to find witch stick I should put into which slot. Simple binning tho, 3200c14 and reducing the voltage to pass SuperPI 32M without errors repeatedly, 15 mins of SAT after that (that's not really useful tho, I could pass that and get error in SuperPI).
The best dimm did that at 1.265v, the worst from the last kit was at 1.32v.
I've got 1.28v one in A1, 1.265v is in B1, 1.29v in C1 and 1.28v in D1. I'm still not sure whether it's A1 or C1 that is the easiest, I suppose it's C1 since in A1 side, there is I/O too.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> daaum - what a difference between MBs. (but an understandable one considering the architecture)
> let us know what you find.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now that's not encouraging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no chance it's the cpu IMC is there?


lol just noticed the motherboard, that's cheating.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol just noticed the motherboard, that's cheating.


It's pretty much THE board needed to get 4000Mhz.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> It's pretty THE board needed to get 4000Mhz.


It's a monster with memory. Been chugging along nicely in the office at C18 1T 4000Mhz for a few weeks now.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's a monster with memory. Been chugging along nicely in the office at C18 1T 4000Mhz for a few weeks now.


couldn't agree more. benchable at 4100+ with only 1.5V. I had these TZ sticks up at 1.75V for 3866c13 on the M8E








(and they didn't even break a sweat - by IR thermo)

had a couple of runs below 5min50sec but they would freeze shortly after completing the run.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Does anyone know where to input the value for tRC? I'm specifically looking for my Asus Z170i Pro Gaming


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> scroll down in dram timings sub menu and look for clock period. set this to 13. set eventual dram to auto and (for now) just work with VDIMM. Auto for min cache shuld work fine, but it will need to be at least 50% of ram speed (so 1600 with 3200 ram) 16x100. Bump both VCCIOs by one or two notches.
> 
> and lastly - humor me - do not run AID64 at the same time as HCI. It's sporadic, but I have several examples where it cause an error (I mean like 1) well into the run. The majority of stability ruins do not suffer this. Sporadic.


Just tried your suggestions, 3 seconds after starting HCI, errors start popping up. Here's a snap of my current timings.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Just tried your suggestions, 3 seconds after starting HCI, errors start popping up. Here's a snap of my current timings.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


If that is the 32GB kit I think it is... may be the same boat as Kimir.








Did you adjust VCCIOs?
Here's my settings (dram clock period set to 13)


(ignore my tFAW setting







)


----------



## shremi

Well im kinda in the same boat .... Stressapp failed to pass just shy of the 2 hour mark .... i just set the timings to 13-13-13-36 1t and added 1.40 V ....

It seems that it is getting near stability but i really don't know much about memory clocks ...

Is there something else to try ????


----------



## MR-e

Screens as follows:

Aida stability test to show load voltages
turbov core to show bios voltages
asrock timing config to show current timings


Spoiler: Voltage Levels



 





Spoiler: BIOS Screens



 
 
 
 
 
 




With above settings, I'm afraid my IMC or Ram kit is a lost cause? I guess I can try with ram voltage intervals up to 1.45V possibly.

Still errors out instantly at 1.45V


----------



## Silent Scone

does the instability occur at CAS14? Why are you setting your refresh interval so high and leaving other items in auto? Raising this on it's own will give you even less benefit then tweaking subs concurrently


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> does the instability occur at CAS14? Why are you setting your refresh interval so high and leaving other items in auto? *Raising this on it's own will give you even less benefit then tweaking subs concurrently*


^^ This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Screens as follows:
> 
> Aida stability test to show load voltages
> turbov core to show bios voltages
> asrock timing config to show current timings
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Voltage Levels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: BIOS Screens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With above settings, I'm afraid my IMC or Ram kit is a lost cause? I guess I can try with ram voltage intervals up to 1.45V possibly.
> 
> Still errors out instantly at 1.45V


From your bios screen shots, with the settings you have (mainly auto) leave tREFI on auto. as scone said, if 13 just won't happen use c14. any number of causes are possible, not only the ram and IMC. MB etc come into play.
Humor me... set clk period back to auto, and everything else to auto except for the first 4 timings eg, 13-13-13-36 and 1T. set 1.4V vdimm, restart and post up a asrock TC snip.


----------



## llantant

This is what I am currently running with @ 1.4v

I forgot to mention that I lowered my tRFC to 374 from Auto (535). Works great. Done the usual 1500 memtest and 2 hour stressapp, I just didn't post it.

I have however put my tREFI back to Auto as when I set to 65000 I had a random BSOD. I have no idea what it was for and it has not happened since. It just happened randomly idling on my desktop. I put back to auto and no issues.

Now one thing I would like to know is that if my RTL training is correct and if not should I manually set these?

The RTL (CHA) D0 etc....

****
I can do 3733 at 17/17/17/37 at 1.41v also. It seemed no real difference in benchmarks though so thought I would keep at 17/18/18/38/1T and only 1.4v.

No matter what I try I cannot do 16/16/16/36 though. Not for 3600 or 3733.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I am currently running with @ 1.4v
> I forgot to mention that I lowered my tRFC to 374 from Auto (535). Works great. Done the usual 1500 memtest and 2 hour stressapp, I just didn't post it.
> I have however put my tREFI back to Auto as when I set to 65000 I had a random BSOD. I have no idea what it was for and it has not happened since. It just happened randomly idling on my desktop. I put back to auto and no issues.
> Now one thing I would like to know is that if my RTL training is correct and if not should I manually set these?
> The RTL (CHA) D0 etc....
> ****
> I can do 3733 at 17/17/17/37 at 1.41v also. It seemed no real difference in benchmarks though so thought I would keep at 17/18/18/38/1T and only 1.4v.
> No matter what I try I cannot do 16/16/16/36 though. Not for 3600 or 3733.


where'd you get tREFI of 65000 from? seems very long. 2x the auto value - if stable - should be good. The best way to test this (thanks to Raja) has been "suspend to ram". let it sit, and then wake the PC and do normal stuff.
When shooting for >3600 on a 4 slot MB, setting the 4 tertiary timings to the CAS value really does help.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> where'd you get tREFI of 65000 from? seems very long. 2x the auto value - if stable - should be good. The best way to test this (thanks to Raja) has been "suspend to ram". let it sit, and then wake the PC and do normal stuff.
> When shooting for >3600 on a 4 slot MB, setting the 4 tertiary timings to the CAS value really does help.


http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
"tREFI set to max(65535) gives slight better performance and does not hurt stability therefore no problems here."

By suspend to ram, what do you mean exactly. Just put my pc in sleep?

Oh I thought that was just for 4 sticks with the tertiaries?

It should help anyway even if I am using 2x8?

I do wish I had gone for 4x4 but I was old school and only ever run 50% dimms populated. I should have read into this T-topology when I purchased the ram.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
> "tREFI set to max(65535) gives slight better performance and does not hurt stability therefore no problems here."
> 
> By suspend to ram, what do you mean exactly. Just put my pc in sleep?
> 
> Oh I thought that was just for 4 sticks with the tertiaries?
> 
> It should help anyway even if I am using 2x8?
> 
> I do wish I had gone for 4x4 but I was old school and only ever run 50% dimms populated. I should have read into this T-topology when I purchased the ram.


Yes - sleep the PC
it help me even with 2x4GB sticks. Shammy's thread re: tREFI is really talking stability for SuperPi. Not really 24/7 stability. work around 2x Auto if you want to, it does help with bandwidth/perrformance, but too high and stability is lost.


----------



## Kimir

Yep, that quote for tREFI is for benchmark purpose more than anything.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Yes - sleep the PC
> it help me even with 2x4GB sticks. Shammy's thread re: tREFI is really talking stability for SuperPi. Not really 24/7 stability. work around 2x Auto if you want to, it does help with bandwidth/perrformance, but too high and stability is lost.


Yeah, Silent Scone did clear it up for me a few pages ago









Plus I have read into Praz's document on fine granularity but thanks for the help both. I originally took the quote as it stated until Silent Scone cleared up my confusion.

Also brilliant. I will retry 3600 16/16/16/36 with the those thirds tweaked to 16.

Thanks guys.









Oh and by the way, do you bother doing the RTL training as the guide speak about?


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> does the instability occur at CAS14? Why are you setting your refresh interval so high and leaving other items in auto? Raising this on it's own will give you even less benefit then tweaking subs concurrently


Whoops, I didn't know that. I just saw it highlighted in Jpm's previous post and copied. Will set back to auto and try again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ This.
> From your bios screen shots, with the settings you have (mainly auto) leave tREFI on auto. as scone said, if 13 just won't happen use c14. any number of causes are possible, not only the ram and IMC. MB etc come into play.
> Humor me... set clk period back to auto, and everything else to auto except for the first 4 timings eg, 13-13-13-36 and 1T. set 1.4V vdimm, restart and post up a asrock TC snip.


Will post back in 8 hours boss, at work right now.

Thank you guys both for contributing to this thread, you two are great


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Yeah, Silent Scone did clear it up for me a few pages ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus I have read into Praz's document on fine granularity but thanks for the help both. I originally took the quote as it stated until Silent Scone cleared up my confusion.
> 
> Also brilliant. I will retry 3600 16/16/16/36 with the those thirds tweaked to 16.
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and by the way, do you bother doing the RTL training as the guide speak about?


RTLs can be left in auto and work fine this way for daily use, although on earlier ucode you can see in Shammy's guide that there was at least one instance that this helped with training


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> RTLs can be left in auto and work fine this way for daily use, although on earlier ucode you can see in Shammy's guide that there was at least one instance that this helped with training










Thanks man.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Yes - sleep the PC
> it help me even with 2x4GB sticks. Shammy's thread re: tREFI is really talking stability for SuperPi. Not really 24/7 stability. work around 2x Auto if you want to, it does help with bandwidth/perrformance, but too high and stability is lost.


You legend! Currently 16/16/16/36/1T at 3600 and 1.4v using those 4 tertiaries.

Passed 1 hour stressapp with no issues. Now to tweak some secondaries again as I put them back to auto.

It benches almost aswell my tweaked 3733 cl17 too!


----------



## shremi

Well I finally got CL13 working just added .1 Volts and passed 2 hours of Stressapp







here is my submission

Shremi--i7 [email protected] 4.8/4.6---3200Mhz-C13-13-13-36-1T----1.41V---SA 1.20v --- IO 1.20v--Stressapptest----2 Hours


----------



## Silent Scone

Glad you got it sorted, results added


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> You legend! Currently 16/16/16/36/1T at 3600 and 1.4v using those 4 tertiaries.
> Passed 1 hour stressapp with no issues. Now to tweak some secondaries again as I put them back to auto.
> It benches almost aswell my tweaked 3733 cl17 too!


Nice!


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> does the instability occur at CAS14? Why are you setting your refresh interval so high and leaving other items in auto? Raising this on it's own will give you even less benefit then tweaking subs concurrently


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Humor me... set clk period back to auto, and everything else to auto except for the first 4 timings eg, 13-13-13-36 and 1T. set 1.4V vdimm, restart and post up a asrock TC snip.


Ok, just loaded defaults in bios again. set all things auto, 1.4v vdimm, 13-13-13-36-1t timings.


----------



## nSone

While previously I've managed to get it running setting DRAM voltage at 1.4v it turns out [email protected] would run without issues at 1.35v if "dram current capability" is set at 110%

*hero VIII / HyperX Savage 32GB HX430C15SBK4/32

is it a good idea to keep this setting, and maybe try adjusting some OC further on?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Ok, just loaded defaults in bios again. set all things auto, 1.4v vdimm, 13-13-13-36-1t timings.


so... those RTLs are very clean.
And this is not stable?


----------



## Silent Scone

Being forthright about it, I'm not sure how good that board will be on the memory side. If it's stable at CAS14 I would leave it be, that's still tight.


----------



## Kimir

Some binning to get the dimm in the proper slot could help.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> so... those RTLs are very clean.
> And this is not stable?


That's right, errors pop up as soon as I start HCI Memtest. I kept the auto settings and tried a lot of vdimm + sa voltage configs. longest I got without erroring was 4 seconds lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Being forthright about it, I'm not sure how good that board will be on the memory side. If it's stable at CAS14 I would leave it be, that's still tight.


C14 errors out at approx 150%, it's getting close to stable. TBH, I think the X99M-WS isn't the right board for memory clocks as the bigger atx version has a lot of people having memory troubles as well. At this point, I'm going to return the C14 kit and get the regular C16 4x4GB kit as 32GB is overkill for my needs if I can't get the C13 going.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Some binning to get the dimm in the proper slot could help.


I'm going to get a regular kit and save myself $230, the 4x4gb C16 kit is going for $179 right now. Less than half of what I paid for the C14 kit haha.

Edit - I was up til 1:30am last night tinking with voltages and running stability tests, had to also re-install windows twice in the past few days getting C13 down. My wife ended up pulling me off to bed by the ear









Really appreciate your guys' time and help, thank you


----------



## Kimir

In the other hand, I'm getting my 4th kit next week. They keep dropping the price while I'm still in the 14 days return delay, til they stop dropping the price or get out of stock, I'll keep doing this. I might find a good kit this way. lol
I'm a little sad when I see those ugly Ripjaw V for 40€ less than the Trident Z... I'm hoping they put the better been in the TZ, but it's a dream I think (the better bin must go to the 3600c16).


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nSone*
> 
> While previously I've managed to get it running setting DRAM voltage at 1.4v it turns out [email protected] would run without issues at 1.35v if "dram current capability" is set at 110%
> 
> *hero VIII / HyperX Savage 32GB HX430C15SBK4/32
> 
> is it a good idea to keep this setting, and maybe try adjusting some OC further on?


There's nothing inherently wrong with running that setting @ 110%. You can keep it & even increase it further if needed.


----------



## shremi

So after overclocking my ram I decided to run occt again just to do a sanity check before I use my rig for regular day operation and... First I started to get freezes which are cache related so I had to back down to 44 from 46... Then on the same vcore started to get bsod x124 and i had to increase.50 MV in order to get it to pass an hour and a half of occt....

Is this normal??? I thought skylake had a great IMC.... I was planning on going for an extra 100 mhz on the core since I had the voltage room... Now not really...

Thoughts on this???


----------



## rt123

Its normal.
If you raised RAM freq with your OC, your CPU load temps prolly went up, which would explain some of that extra Vcore.


----------



## Scrimstar

which is better?

http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16q-32gtz

http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3000c15d-32gtz


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> which is better?
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16q-32gtz
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3000c15d-32gtz


trick question?


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> trick question?


no,

4 stick 3200 16-16-16-36-2N *vs* 2 stick 3000 15-15-15-35-2N


----------



## rt123

2 stick = easier to stabilize.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> 2 stick = easier to stabilize.


kinda depends on the MB IME. 4 sticks on the M8E seem to do better than 2?


----------



## [email protected]

Yes, that can happen with T-Topology with some kits. One of the side-effects of T-Topology is reduced 2 DIMM headroom, though we do our best to dial that out (lots of behind scenes work on registers)


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> kinda depends on the MB IME. 4 sticks on the M8E seem to do better than 2?


Performance wise or stability wise..?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Yes, that can happen with T-Topology with some kits. One of the side-effects of T-Topology is reduced 2 DIMM headroom, though we do our best to dial that out (lots of behind scenes work on registers)


Interesting, this explains some things.
Reduced headroom, but 2 DIMMs still have more than 4DIMMs & are easier to stabilize.

I don't think there's a scenario possible where you can't go any further with 2 sticks, than you did with 4. Converse is also true. Of course, assuming no bottlenecks via RAM or IMC.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> I don't think there's a scenario possible where you can't go any further with 2 sticks, than you did with 4. Converse is also true. Of course, assuming no bottlenecks via RAM or IMC.


No, it can happen. There are instances where 2 DIMMs won't POST where 4 will. We can get some of that back, but the disparity still exists.


----------



## rt123

Fascinating information.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Performance wise or stability wise..?


well you know me... they're kinda linked.








But for this subject I really do not have a ton of data or experience. Just seems that full slots have better bandwidth? At the limit, easier to post and SPi 2 sticks than 4 (both unbinned).


----------



## Kimir

New kit is here, now I have 8 following serial numbers. I hope I get good ones and will be able to do 3200c13 daily with those.









(new one on the left)


----------



## ManofGod1000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Its normal.
> If you raised RAM freq with your OC, your CPU load temps prolly went up, which would explain some of that extra Vcore.


So, you are saying that, for example, if I set my ram to the XMP 2400 Profile, it is normal for the VCore to be higher as compared to lets say, 2133 speed? I am running Ripjaws V 4 x 8 GB sticks on a Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7 and an I7-6700k.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> well you know me... they're kinda linked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for this subject I really do not have a ton of data or experience. Just seems that full slots have better bandwidth? At the limit, easier to post and SPi 2 sticks than 4 (both unbinned).


I was aware of 4sticks providing greater performance.
Better stability was new to me. I've been enlightened, thanks to Raja.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> New kit is here, now I have 8 following serial numbers. I hope I get good ones and will be able to do 3200c13 daily with those.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (new one on the left)


Some serious binning this time around.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ManofGod1000*
> 
> So, you are saying that, for example, if I set my ram to the XMP 2400 Profile, it is normal for the VCore to be higher as compared to lets say, 2133 speed? I am running Ripjaws V 4 x 8 GB sticks on a Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7 and an I7-6700k.


VCore kept same, the CPU temps will go up with higher RAM freq. The temp increase is minor, but if you have substantial jump in RAM freq,say from 2133 JEDEC to XMP 3466, temps will go up by atleast 5C.

Enabling XMP does not affect Vcore, or atleast it shouldn't.


----------



## ManofGod1000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> I was aware of 4sticks providing greater performance.
> Better stability was new to me. I've been enlightened, thanks to Raja.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some serious binning this time around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCore kept same, the CPU temps will go up with higher RAM freq. The temp increase is minor, but if you have substantial jump in RAM freq,say from 2133 JEDEC to XMP 3466, temps will go up by atleast 5C.
> 
> Enabling XMP does not affect Vcore, or atleast it shouldn't.


Ok, thanks, I will have to verify this tonight. The new CPU that Intel sent me has issues the other one did not. (The other one had issues that it would not operate correctly on boot up like invalid configuration or bad overclock even with everything set to stock.) The new cpu will not maintain a voltage when I try to overclock and it down clock by 200MHz when stress testing. (Voltage will go back and forth between 1.376 and 1.32 no matter what I set in the bios. Also, with the XMP Profile set, the temps will get up to 82C with a Noctua NH-D15 well using IBT and that is about 20C hotter than the other chip I had to rma. (This is with everything else set on Auto and stock speeds.)


----------



## ManofGod1000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> I was aware of 4sticks providing greater performance.
> Better stability was new to me. I've been enlightened, thanks to Raja.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some serious binning this time around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCore kept same, the CPU temps will go up with higher RAM freq. The temp increase is minor, but if you have substantial jump in RAM freq,say from 2133 JEDEC to XMP 3466, temps will go up by atleast 5C.
> 
> Enabling XMP does not affect Vcore, or atleast it shouldn't.


Unfortunately, sure enough, I was right, although I would rather be wrong. With the ram at 2133 speeds, well running IBT Very High 10 times, the max package temp is 76C. (I still think that is too high for stock speeds on a Noctua NH-D15 that is properly seated.) With the XMP profile running at 2400, I end up with 82C package temp and this is in the winter with the same IBT test. I honestly think that this second cpu is defective as well, what do you think? It maxes out at a CPU VCore of 1.856 and a VID of 1.423 and this is at stock settings.

Edit: In fact, on the MIT page in the bios, the VCore shows as 1.282 without the XMP enabled and 1.356 with the XMP profile enabled. Seems rather significant and wrong to me. (Everything is set to default and auto at the moment.)


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ManofGod1000*
> 
> Unfortunately, sure enough, I was right, although I would rather be wrong. With the ram at 2133 speeds, well running IBT Very High 10 times, the max package temp is 76C. (I still think that is too high for stock speeds on a Noctua NH-D15 that is properly seated.) With the XMP profile running at 2400, I end up with 82C package temp and this is in the winter with the same IBT test. I honestly think that this second cpu is defective as well, what do you think? It maxes out at a CPU VCore of 1.856 and a VID of 1.423 and this is at stock settings.


This VCore & VID stuff is getting confusing. Let's settle on the core voltage you set in BIOS.

What CPU speed are you testing, stock 4Ghz, is yes, you shouldn't need that much Core voltage in first place. Most CPUs do 4.5Ghz around 1.32-1.35V. You were also taking about the voltage fluctuating.

Did you set Windows Power plan to Performance.
Disable C-States in BIOS.
And use Manual or Override mode for CPU core voltage..? (Dunno what manual voltage is called on Z170 Gigabyte boards).


----------



## ManofGod1000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> This VCore & VID stuff is getting confusing. Let's settle on the core voltage you set in BIOS.
> 
> What CPU speed are you testing, stock 4Ghz, is yes, you shouldn't need that much Core voltage in first place. Most CPUs do 4.5Ghz around 1.32-1.35V. You were also taking about the voltage fluctuating.
> 
> Did you set Windows Power plan to Performance.
> Disable C-States in BIOS.
> And use Manual or Override mode for CPU core voltage..? (Dunno what manual voltage is called on Z170 Gigabyte boards).


The first VCore and VID number were taken from the HWMonitor program. The second VCore readings were from the bios. (Lists it as VCore in the bios.) Nope, everything is set to default and auto in the bios. In windows, it is on balanced. The voltage fluctuation happens when I try overclocking with manual voltage set and LLC on High. Even with all the power settings off in the bios and performance in windows, I still get a 200 Mhz drop and voltage fluctuation from 4500 on up.

Now, the ram I have in not listed as compatible with 4 x 8GB installed on this board. However, the exact same problem occurs with just two sticks and I did a memtest run that passed. Seems to me the VCore being so much more in the bios between XMP and non XMP settings is pretty significant. I could tweak some manual settings but, this still should not be occurring and seems to run 20 C hotter than the other CPU did a stock.


----------



## rt123

Damn, I am out of ideas.









Have you tried talking to fellow Gigabyte Z170 owners here, http://www.overclock.net/t/1571741/gigabyte-z170-h170-b150-discussion-help-and-owners-club-ultra-durable-and-gaming-editions

Since they have the same BIOS & prolly the same Mobo as you, they might be able to help out.


----------



## Jpmboy

lol - started memtest pro with 32GB and a 6320.... got to like 3% in an hour or so.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - started memtest pro with 32GB and a 6320.... got to like 3% in an hour or so.


Jesus.

HCI is just not pragmatic when dealing with that much memory anyway. It's still a great test of stability but that sort of coverage time is mental.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Jesus.
> 
> HCI is just not pragmatic when dealing with that much memory anyway. It's still a great test of stability but that sort of coverage time is mental.


ridiculous... I let it go to 70-something percent, epoch... not epic.


----------



## Kimir

Damn, those TZ are making me nuts... New kit is better overall during the binning. Yet it fail HCI quicker than when I ran it with the previous one.
I did 1000% at c13, but _not_ 13-13-13.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Booted again at 13-13-13 and it fail the same way. Changed in windows to 13-14-13 and it seems to go well... It doesn't like tRCD at 13 somehow.
Look pretty much like what djgar is experiencing on the X99 support thread. 

Maybe I should try sorting them differently. AB to CD and vis versa.


----------



## rt123

How did you do your initial Binning Kimir..? What test..?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> How did you do your initial Binning Kimir..? What test..?


Single dimm in B1 (near CPU on the IO side) with frequency and timing not changing (3200 c14-14-14-32, the setting I have stable easily, you can see the sub timings in one of my post in here) and reducing the voltage til it fail SuperPI, then retry to successively get SuperPi to pass.
This kit is like that:
#1: 1.28v - D1
#2: 1.275v - C1
#3: 1.25v - best of them all - B1
#4: 1.265v - A1


Spoiler: The 3 previous one were like that:



Kit 1:
#1: 1.29v
#2: 1.3v
#3: 1.285v
#4: 1.29v

Kit 2
#1: 1.26v
#2: 1.28v
#3: DOA
#4: 1.28v

Kit 3
#1: 1.32v - worst of them all
#2: 1.295v
#3: 1.29v
#4: 1.295v


I'm using the dimm #1 of the kit 2 in place of the dimm #1 here (took the liberty to swap the heat spreader, so SN 119 became 123 and vis versa)
I did that on the 3 previous kit I had, it's just to sort the dimm and put them in the most favorable slot. Obviously not the voltage I use when the 4 sticks are in.

This is how I have understood how it should be done from overclocking.guide. If I do it wrong, please enlighten me.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> New kit is here, now I have 8 following serial numbers. I hope I get good ones and will be able to do 3200c13 daily with those.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (new one on the left)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Damn, those TZ are making me nuts... New kit is better overall during the binning. Yet it fail HCI quicker than when I ran it with the previous one.
> I did 1000% at c13, but _not_ 13-13-13.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Booted again at 13-13-13 and it fail the same way. Changed in windows to 13-14-13 and it seems to go well... It doesn't like tRCD at 13 somehow.
> Look pretty much like what djgar is experiencing on the X99 support thread.
> 
> Maybe I should try sorting them differently. AB to CD and vis versa.


oh daaum.








Just drop the cache multi to 40 and cpu to 42, 45 or something. eliminate any possible cache issue - no AID 64 running at the same time?
(I'm starting to think it's either the IMC or some setting buried in there?)


----------



## Kimir

It's fine at C14, so there is no reason for it to be the cache.


----------



## MR-e

Hey guys, I returned the uber C14 32GB kit in favour of a generic 16GB TZ kit as I wasn't getting the clocks needed to justify the price.

I'm currently at 16-16-16-44 1T testing with HCI as I type. Would I be able to ask for some assistance on where to next tighten some timings?

Thanks guys










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> It's fine at C14, so there is no reason for it to be the cache.


Not necessarily.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> I'm currently at 16-16-16-44 1T testing with HCI as I type. Would I be able to ask for some assistance on where to next tighten some timings?
> 
> Thanks guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Try reducing tRTP, most kits should be able to handle 4 with a few extra volts.


----------



## MR-e

Just woke up, HCI made it to 2600%








I found my base clocks, now time to tighten timings










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> It's fine at C14, so there is no reason for it to be the cache.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Not necessarily.


ram/cache "alignment" is unfortunately empirical for me at this point.









btw - put the 8x4GB kit back in this x99 rig, and the 3200c14 kit on the M8E. Makes more sense. 2666c12 on x99 is plenty quick for my purposes.


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Boot and bench, yes. Stable? Lol. Not at 1T with 2 sticks. Spi, sure. Up to 4133 with 2 sticks. The m8ex is built for 4 dimms. My 3200c14 32gb kit is on it now. 3466 16-16-44-1t is easy. Higher is well over 1.5v. I've had them to 1.7v but not 24/7.
> My impact does 4000 too easy.;-)
> Guys claiming cap without screenies? Bs until you see a screenie.


Were you ever able to pass GSAT at 4000 2T on the M8E? What tweaks did you have to do, or straight XMP? (Moving this convo over to the DDR4 thread.)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> Were you ever able to pass GSAT at 4000 2T on the M8E? What tweaks did you have to do, or straight XMP? (Moving this convo over to the DDR4 thread.)


I didn't use XMP, just manual. Only "tweaks" were clock period to 24 and the 4 tertiary timings set to CAS. The kit is a 2x4GB TZ 4000. On the Impact this kit runs 4000 1T withouit breaklng a sweat. The M8I/4000 kit and 6320 or 6600K are going in a small cube case as soon as the the case gets here.








http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q10/


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I didn't use XMP, just manual. Only "tweaks" were clock period to 24 and the 4 tertiary timings set to CAS. The kit is a 2x4GB TZ 4000. On the Impact this kit runs 4000 1T withouit breaklng a sweat. The M8I/4000 kit and 6320 or 6600K are going in a small cube case as soon as the the case gets here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q10/


I do like Lian-Li, but their cases are mostly air orientated. The guy that designs their gear is very talented but evidently refuses to budge on watercooling.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I do like Lian-Li, but their cases are mostly air orientated. The guy that designs their gear is very talented but evidently refuses to budge on watercooling.


i'm gonna try an AIO.


----------



## MR-e

Hey guys,

Do you know if there's a difference between the X99 Deluxe and X99 Pro from Asus in terms of Memory/CPU OC? Ideally, I'd get the Rampage V, but that mobo is too wide for my case. I don't mind the price, but it's the m.2 ssd orientation of the X99 Pro I prefer more over the X99 Deluxe.

Going to sell the X99M-WS in favor of ATX form factor.









Regards,


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I didn't use XMP, just manual. Only "tweaks" were clock period to 24 and the 4 tertiary timings set to CAS. The kit is a 2x4GB TZ 4000. On the Impact this kit runs 4000 1T withouit breaklng a sweat. The M8I/4000 kit and 6320 or 6600K are going in a small cube case as soon as the the case gets here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q10/


Curious or if I'm doing something wrong.

Every time and I'll be honest, it's only been few - but setting manually provides piss-poor results. They're simply not optimised without actually setting XMP and nobody except crazy RAM tweakers can do that for all of the secondaries and thirds.

eg, I understand what you're saying above but had you tried XMP, performance would've been better but then 4000 1T wouldn't have worked.. correct or missed something obvious?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Curious or if I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> Every time and I'll be honest, it's only been few - but setting manually provides piss-poor results. They're simply not optimised without actually setting XMP and nobody except crazy RAM tweakers can do that for all of the secondaries and thirds.
> 
> eg, I understand what you're saying above but had you tried XMP, performance would've been better but then 4000 1T wouldn't have worked.. correct or missed something obvious?


On the M8I it does work with XMP settings at 4000. On the M8E it will not even post at 4000 XMP - or any manual settings unless you jump thru some hoops when using 2 sticks. I don't tweak every setting - no way - but a few simple adjustments and the performance (by AID64 atleast) is much better than XMP. For me this is true with every kit from z87 thru z170 including x79 and x99. Honestly, I just don't even consider XMP from the get go. Old habits.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> On the M8I it does work with XMP settings at 4000. On the M8E it will not even post at 4000 XMP - or any manual settings unless you jump thru some hoops when using 2 sticks. I don't tweak every setting - no way - but a few simple adjustments and the performance (by AID64 atleast) is much better than XMP. For me this is true with every kit from z87 thru z170 including x79 and x99. Honestly, I just don't even consider XMP from the get go. Old habits.


Ill echo this with my 3600 sticks. I get over 1gb/s maxxmem and much better aida and superpi with tweaked secondaries. I have not messed too much with tertiaries though, except for the 4 set CAS and two others set at 8.

Superpi is actually 3 seconds quicker over XMP.

Dont get me wrong, I cannot notice a difference in regular usage but I personally enjoy tinkering.









Already started putting some spare cash aside for Skylake-E. That's my next build for myself.

I do still have another 6700k and some DDR4 sitting in my drawer ready for a build for a family member when he chooses a case he likes (its been 4 months).


----------



## Jpmboy

Thought I'd bring *this discussion* here...

Comparing 3200c13, 3466c16 and 3866c17 (all MT stable settings)


SPi data:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thought I'd bring *this discussion* here...
> 
> Comparing 3200c13, 3466c16 and 3866c17 (all MT stable settings)


Beautiful data, thanks Jpmboy.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> Beautiful data, thanks Jpmboy.


you're very welcome!


----------



## lowfat

Bought the cheapest set of 2x16GB DDR4 I could find. Some G.Skill Aegis, 2133MHz 15-15-15-36. Unfortunately it doesn't scale great. Although I am hearing that overclocked non-k's may have issues w/ ram stability above 2800MHz. Not sure if there is any truth to that.

http://hostthenpost.org


----------



## Jpmboy

Question... building a box for general 2D "office" use. Will be driving a 1600P monitor using the built-in graphics on a skylake cpu... would 8GB system ram be sufficient. Assume the user will have several programs running and multiple windows open. Win 10 OS.


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Question... building a box for general 2D "office" use. Will be driving a 1600P monitor using the built-in graphics on a skylake cpu... would 8GB system ram be sufficient. Assume the user will have several programs running and multiple windows open. Win 10 OS.


Assuming the pagefile will be resting on an SSD, 8GB is still more than enough. I pack 8GB in all my "office" builds.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> Assuming the pagefile will be resting on an SSD, 8GB is still more than enough. I pack 8GB in all my "office" builds.


Thank bud. Yeah,I'll move paging to a dedicated (small) SSD.
+1


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Thought i would copy paste this question from another thread in the memory forum in hopes of getting a faster answer.

This ram is in my 6700k system with an asus maximus viii formula mobo. Also had it in a gigabyte gaming 7 mobo until recently, exact same results.

I have a few questions about a set of gskill TZ ram i bought a couple weeks ago. I have 32gb 8gbx4 sticks of 3200mhz cl14 tz and it seems to overclock rather well.

However, i'm hitting a wall with temperatures at ~50c which is causing me all kinds of issues. Essentially i have to run all the fans in my system at max speed during folding or during gaming which both generate enough heat to cause the issue. It does not matter what the timings, frequency, or voltage i use are. Whether it be at its rated speeds, below, or above. If this ram hits ~50c the computer freezes or if i'm lucky i get a reboot and get to analyze the dump file for the bsod. Every crash in the dump files that i get point toward ram as a possible cause.

I live at 10,500ft in elevation here and air cooling sucks hard in the thin air. I have what would be a massively overkill water cooling setup at sea level with 1320mm of rad space to cool 2 980tis and a 6700k currently. I have an ek ram block and heatspreaders ready to go on with my upcoming teardown and hardline rebuild next month but i'm sick of having to run my fans at max while folding to keep ram cool with enough airflow. Instead of waiting i'm ready to tear off the heatspreaders tomorrow, bend a few tubes, and put the ram block on so i can put an end to the noise.

Before i do so and void my warranty, is this normal for TZ ram to become unstable at ~50c or is there something wrong with 1 of the sticks? They memtest stable to 200% with every oc that i believe to be stable so long as temps stay under the 50c barrier.

The ram oc's beautifully but i can't even run rated freqs/voltage/timings with my system fans set where i want them for noise. With my system fans maxed out i'm running 14-15-15-35-2 @ 3466 1.424v. CL 14 @ 3600 is possible without the thermal barrier as well but i can't push that atm. I'm targeting latency with my oc's.

TL;DR
TZ ram unstable at any freq/voltage/timings if temps reach ~50c. Is this normal or do i have bad memory? Memtest stable to 200% at any oc i use so long as temp under 50c.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Bought the cheapest set of 2x16GB DDR4 I could find. Some G.Skill Aegis, 2133MHz 15-15-15-36. Unfortunately it doesn't scale great. *Although I am hearing that overclocked non-k's may have issues w/ ram stability above 2800MHz.* Not sure if there is any truth to that.


Not true.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Edge0fsanity*
> 
> Thought i would copy paste this question from another thread in the memory forum in hopes of getting a faster answer.
> 
> This ram is in my 6700k system with an asus maximus viii formula mobo. Also had it in a gigabyte gaming 7 mobo until recently, exact same results.
> 
> I have a few questions about a set of gskill TZ ram i bought a couple weeks ago. I have 32gb 8gbx4 sticks of 3200mhz cl14 tz and it seems to overclock rather well.
> 
> However, i'm hitting a wall with temperatures at ~50c which is causing me all kinds of issues. Essentially i have to run all the fans in my system at max speed during folding or during gaming which both generate enough heat to cause the issue. It does not matter what the timings, frequency, or voltage i use are. Whether it be at its rated speeds, below, or above. If this ram hits ~50c the computer freezes or if i'm lucky i get a reboot and get to analyze the dump file for the bsod. Every crash in the dump files that i get point toward ram as a possible cause.
> 
> I live at 10,500ft in elevation here and air cooling sucks hard in the thin air. I have what would be a massively overkill water cooling setup at sea level with 1320mm of rad space to cool 2 980tis and a 6700k currently. I have an ek ram block and heatspreaders ready to go on with my upcoming teardown and hardline rebuild next month but i'm sick of having to run my fans at max while folding to keep ram cool with enough airflow. Instead of waiting i'm ready to tear off the heatspreaders tomorrow, bend a few tubes, and put the ram block on so i can put an end to the noise.
> 
> Before i do so and void my warranty, is this normal for TZ ram to become unstable at ~50c or is there something wrong with 1 of the sticks? They memtest stable to 200% with every oc that i believe to be stable so long as temps stay under the 50c barrier.
> 
> The ram oc's beautifully but i can't even run rated freqs/voltage/timings with my system fans set where i want them for noise. With my system fans maxed out i'm running 14-15-15-35-2 @ 3466 1.424v. CL 14 @ 3600 is possible without the thermal barrier as well but i can't push that atm. I'm targeting latency with my oc's.
> 
> TL;DR
> TZ ram unstable at any freq/voltage/timings if temps reach ~50c. Is this normal or do i have bad memory? Memtest stable to 200% at any oc i use so long as temp under 50c.


Sincerely doubt its the RAM.
Probably a CPU overclock issue.

How are you measuring RAM temps.?


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely doubt its the RAM.
> Probably a CPU overclock issue.


Ya I know. Ended up being my blck. I can stress test all day @ 175blck. Idle though is another matter. I've tried pretty much everything but it BSODs within 25 minutes when idling.


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely doubt its the RAM.
> Probably a CPU overclock issue.
> 
> How are you measuring RAM temps.?


doesn't matter how much vcore i throw at the cpu, same result every time. Changes to vccio and sa have no effect either.

I use hwinfo for ram temps.

I can easily back up that ~50c is infact a thermal barrier to this ram. I can run memtest at any freq/voltage/timings with all fans at idle speeds in a room with ~20c ambient. As soon as the dimms get around 48-52c they'll start throwing errors. I can repeat this test over and over and get the same result on either of my motherboards. Same goes for folding, same temps result in freezing, reboots, and occasional error codes in the dump file. Games its a non issue because i run an aggressive fan profile which keeps plenty of airflow through the case and keeps the dimms cool. My cpu oc passes 60 loops of x264 without issue along with 100s of hours of gaming without issue. The only stress tests it'll fail are p95 and occt.

Back to my original question. Is this temp issue normal? I can easily correct it tomorrow but i don't want to void the warranty on my ram if it is not.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Ya I know. Ended up being my blck. I can stress test all day @ 175blck. Idle though is another matter. I've tried pretty much everything but it BSODs within 25 minutes when idling.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Edge0fsanity*
> 
> doesn't matter how much vcore i throw at the cpu, same result every time. Changes to vccio and sa have no effect either.
> 
> I use hwinfo for ram temps.
> 
> I can easily back up that ~50c is infact a thermal barrier to this ram. I can run memtest at any freq/voltage/timings with all fans at idle speeds in a room with ~20c ambient. As soon as the dimms get around 48-52c they'll start throwing errors. I can repeat this test over and over and get the same result on either of my motherboards. Same goes for folding, same temps result in freezing, reboots, and occasional error codes in the dump file. Games its a non issue because i run an aggressive fan profile which keeps plenty of airflow through the case and keeps the dimms cool. My cpu oc passes 60 loops of x264 without issue along with 100s of hours of gaming without issue. The only stress tests it'll fail are p95 and occt.
> 
> Back to my original question. Is this temp issue normal? I can easily correct it tomorrow but i don't want to void the warranty on my ram if it is not.


Yes temperature can affect the RAM overclocking capabilities.
Before you go void your warranty, as a final suggestion, I would say lower your Uncore by 100Mhz & raise VCCIO to 1.2V & SA to 1.25V.


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes temperature can affect the RAM overclocking capabilities.
> Before you go void your warranty, as a final suggestion, I would say lower your Uncore by 100Mhz & raise VCCIO to 1.2V & SA to 1.25V.


dropped my uncore mult to 41 and have been running vccio and sa at those exact voltages previous to posting about it. No difference. Even experimented with a little less vccio and sa with uncore at 41 with the same results. I've literally tried everything i can think of to stabilize it. Only way i can find stability is with noisy and unnecessarily loud fans.


----------



## Kimir

When you say memtest you mean HCI memtest right?
If not, then use HCI, or stressapptest.
If yes, try 1000%, 200% is not nearly enough of a stability test. I've had error throwing at me at 300-400%. Temp not being an issue here.

If had the time here, so I let it run for almost a day.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




snap, I forgot to swap the wallpaper.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Ya I know. Ended up being my blck. I can stress test all day @ 175blck. Idle though is another matter. I've tried pretty much everything but it BSODs within 25 minutes when idling.


if that board has the bios setting, increase cpu "standby voltage" to 1.2V with 175 bclk. it's not really "standby" in the strict sense of the word








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Edge0fsanity*
> 
> doesn't matter how much vcore i throw at the cpu, same result every time. Changes to vccio and sa have no effect either.
> 
> I use hwinfo for ram temps.
> 
> I can easily back up that ~50c is infact a thermal barrier to this ram. I can run memtest at any freq/voltage/timings with all fans at idle speeds in a room with ~20c ambient. As soon as the dimms get around 48-52c they'll start throwing errors. I can repeat this test over and over and get the same result on either of my motherboards. Same goes for folding, same temps result in freezing, reboots, and occasional error codes in the dump file. Games its a non issue because i run an aggressive fan profile which keeps plenty of airflow through the case and keeps the dimms cool. My cpu oc passes 60 loops of x264 without issue along with 100s of hours of gaming without issue. The only stress tests it'll fail are p95 and occt.
> 
> Back to my original question. Is this temp issue normal? I can easily correct it tomorrow but i don't want to void the warranty on my ram if it is not.


If you are packing the TZ sticks in a 4 slot z170 board the heat sinks perform poorly. You need to get a ram fan directly on the 4-pack. What VDIMM are you running that hits 50C?


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> When you say memtest you mean HCI memtest right?
> If not, then use HCI, or stressapptest.
> If yes, try 1000%, 200% is not nearly enough of a stability test. I've had error throwing at me at 300-400%. Temp not being an issue here.
> 
> If had the time here, so I let it run for almost a day.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snap, I forgot to swap the wallpaper.


yes, HCI memtest, i know i should probably run it up to 1000% but i just haven't had a chance. However, the problem exists at rated speed/timings/voltage as well as when pushed beyond those.


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> If you are packing the TZ sticks in a 4 slot z170 board the heat sinks perform poorly. You need to get a ram fan directly on the 4-pack. What VDIMM are you running that hits 50C?


two inner dimms will hit 50-52c, dimm closest to my front rad(cl s8 case) is usually ~48c, and the outer dimm closest to the cpu is at around 49-50c when crashes occur. its definitely an airflow issues over the heatsinks. There isn't much room between the dimms either which doesn't help. I agree a fan right on the ram would fix this. My case temps are at worst 30c at any point during the day, usually lower. However, i'd rather just watercool it and be done with it rather than spend money on a temp solution. I have the parts sitting in the closet, i just wasn't planning on doing it until my rebuild later this month.


----------



## Jpmboy

yeah, I mean.. I'm running 1.45V (or more) VDIMM on a 4x8GB TZ kit on a Max8 extreme and I just sit a 90mm fan on top on the 4-pack. Dimm temps (which are not read correctly on my 3200c14 samsung kit) never exceed 30C by a temp probe inserted into the HS or by IR thermo. They really do not need water cooling, just air flow directly on the sticks. but WC ram looks cool.


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, I mean.. I'm running 1.45V (or more) VDIMM on a 4x8GB TZ kit on a Max8 extreme and I just sit a 90mm fan on top on the 4-pack. Dimm temps (which are not read correctly on my 3200c14 samsung kit) never exceed 30C by a temp probe inserted into the HS or by IR thermo. They really do not need water cooling, just air flow directly on the sticks. but WC ram looks cool.


Yeah, wc'ing ram is completely unnecessary. Only reason i originally was going to do it was for aesthetics but now i guess it'll be functional in that it'll give me silence while folding. I'm about to stick a 120mm case fan on top of them with some double sided sticky foam tape as a temp solution. Should fix the problem for now. If i can get these temps under control they should overclock wonderfully. CL 14 3600mhz is my goal, i'm certain its possible from prior testing at ~1.46-1.47v with proper temps.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if that board has the bios setting, increase cpu "standby voltage" to 1.2V with 175 bclk.


I was trying up to 1.25V w/o success. Tried 1.35V today though and haven't had an idle lockup in 3 hours, which is a record.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> I was trying up to 1.25V w/o success. Tried 1.35V today though and haven't had an idle lockup in 3 hours, which is a record.


yeah - somethin's not quite right. enter bios (with a USB stick in any port) move to the page where you save/load bios settings, hit F2 and post that text file (attachment tool in the editor) here. need to see your settings.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - somethin's not quite right. enter bios (with a USB stick in any port) move to the page where you save/load bios settings, hit F2 and post that text file (attachment tool in the editor) here. need to see your settings.


I don't think my board has such an option.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> I don't think my board has such an option.


asus z170-A? Tools> Asus Overclocking Profile. I'm pretty sure it will drop a text file with F2. But anyway, with that bclk and ram, set vccio to 1.212V and VSA to 1.2375V.
May I ask why you are running bclk 174?
this may help:

ocguide0722c.pdf 1655k .pdf file


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> asus z170-A? Tools> Asus Overclocking Profile. I'm pretty sure it will drop a text file with F2. But anyway, with that bclk and ram, set vccio to 1.212V and VSA to 1.2375V.
> May I ask why you are running bclk 174?
> this may help:
> 
> ocguide0722c.pdf 1655k .pdf file


IIRC F2 asked to reset defaults or something.

I am using an i5-6400, 27x is my max multiplier so blck is my limiting factor for core clock.

The guide has some useful info, it should help.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> IIRC F2 asked to reset defaults or something.
> 
> I am using an i5-6400, 27x is my max multiplier so blck is my limiting factor for core clock.
> 
> The guide has some useful info, it should help.












I have a 6320 that runs 4875 on 125. Fast lil i3.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 6320 that runs 4875 on 125. Fast lil i3.





















P.S apologies if I have missed anything, I've been inactive these past couple of weeks due to redecorating and also rebuilding my main system at home.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S apologies if I have missed anything, I've been inactive these past couple of weeks due to redecorating and also rebuilding my main system at home.


lol - there's only two places on our property I'm allowed to redecorate "without supervision".


----------



## Silent Scone

You beat me. There are zero places I can without supervision, although replace supervision with strategically placed sighing and the words "actually" and "put it back"


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You beat me. There are zero places I can without supervision, although replace supervision with strategically placed sighing and the words "actually" and "put it back"


ugh... and don't you think it would look better over here? (rhetorical of course) The two places are.... garages.


----------



## Silent Scone

"It's a punch bag I don't think it matters where it looks better, I'm still going to punch it"


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> "It's a punch bag I don't think it matters where it looks better, I'm still going to punch it"


good one! after a day of supervised "redecorating" the bag is a necessity!

Hey - I have this 4x8GB 3200c14 kit on the M8E running 3466c15 at 1.475V. ran it to 120% on HCI. I just can;t get mint to work on this MB whether the mint drive is created on the M8E or the R5E. My mint SsD works on the M8I tho, strange.

(put the old 8x4GB gskill kit back on the r5e running 2666c12 or 3000c13)


----------



## Silent Scone

I'm still a little concerned you removed the C14 kit from your X99 build lol.


----------



## Jpmboy

redecorated on my own.


----------



## lowfat

This is actually w/ an SB-EP system but this thread is the only place I've seen where people are using/discussing stressapptest. So I am testing some ram w/ stressapptest in Mint. However the following happens every time I run the test. If I open System Monitor all 32 threads are being loaded still and as far as I can tell it continues to run until I close the terminal window. Even well after the 1 hour is up. I've never used stressapptest before so is this something that is common?

http://hostthenpost.org


----------



## Kimir

Yes, this is normal behavior, it does the power spike every 600 seconds.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Yes, this is normal behavior, it does the power spike every 600 seconds.


But nothing appears in the terminal window after that.

I set it to run for 3600s and here it is running for ~1h 40m. But nothing else is showing up in the terminal window.

http://hostthenpost.org

EDIT: Figured it out how to disable the power spike. All is well now.


----------



## Kimir

Hmm that's odd then, it keep going for me.


----------



## Jpmboy

window pgdn?


----------



## llantant

Dram current capability? What do you guys set it too. It says auto, but there is no auto lol. I've always use 120.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Dram current capability? What do you guys set it too. It says auto, but there is no auto lol. I've always use 120.


No need to change this setting from auto for the most part.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> No need to change this setting from auto for the most part.


So by auto you mean 100% right? There is no actual setting that says auto.

I'm using 3600 or 3733 8gb sticks.


----------



## [email protected]

What issues are you experiencing with this setting at default?


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> What issues are you experiencing with this setting at default?


Not tried 100%. I set to 120% right away because the says that it should be raised for high frequency high density modules. (8gb 3600-3766 seemed to fit the bill).

It does say that it can be left on auto in most cases but my confusion was that there is no auto in the list. If it said default I wouldn't have this confusion. Also I have always used 130% for cpu going back years so figured Ram would be the same.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Not tried 100%. I set to 120% right away because the says that it should be raised for high frequency high density modules. (8gb 3600-3766 seemed to fit the bill).
> 
> It does say that it can be left on auto in most cases but my confusion was that there is no auto in the list. If it said default I wouldn't have this confusion. Also I have always used 130% for cpu going back years so figured Ram would be the same.


Hmmmm...the CPU OCP setting has an Auto setting but you still change it anyway...In light of this, would an Auto setting really have stopped you from fiddling with the DRAM OCP setting? Generally, settings do not need to be changed unless the OCP trips. Hence, I asked you what you'd experienced.

DRAM OCP settings can be left alone in most cases unless one is running insane clocks or very high memory densities. Neither of these scenarios applies to you.

As for the mandatory adjustment you apply to the CPU OCP setting, Auto *is* 140% on most platforms, which is needed to prevent inadvertent reset under heavy stress tests. By using 130%, you are under that value. What's your logic for making the mandatory IIantant change?


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Hmmmm...the CPU OCP setting has an Auto setting but you still change it anyway...In light of this, would an Auto setting really have stopped you from fiddling with the DRAM OCP setting? Generally, settings do not need to be changed unless the OCP trips. Hence, I asked you what you'd experienced.
> 
> DRAM OCP settings can be left alone in most cases unless one is running insane clocks or very high memory densities. Neither of these scenarios applies to you.
> 
> As for the mandatory adjustment you apply to the CPU OCP setting, Auto *is* 140% on most platforms, which is needed to prevent inadvertent reset under heavy stress tests. By using 130%, you are under that value. What's your logic for making the mandatory IIantant change?


Yes it would have stopped me fiddling. I would have set it to auto and left it be. This is the first board that has had dram capability that I have used. And when in description it said to set to auto that's what threw me because there is no auto, nor in the manual.
I was unsure also when it said high density high frequency modules. Which I did think I had but thanks for clearing that up.

My logic was that on older boards there never used to be auto and I always have set cpu
Current capability to 130% (at the time that was max). So I just set it to that from the get go and had no issues.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Yes it would have stopped me fiddling. I would have set it to auto and left it be. This is the first board that has had dram capability that I have used. And when in description it said to set to auto that's what threw me because there is no auto, nor in the manual.
> I was unsure also when it said high density high frequency modules. Which I did think I had but thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> My logic was that on older boards there never used to be auto and I always have set cpu
> Current capability to 130% (at the time that was max). So I just set it to that from the get go and had no issues.


Ahh yes, changing things for the sake of it...









Comes back to this really: http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/910#post_24969313


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Ahh yes, changing things for the sake of it...


Yep haha.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Yep haha.


Might be worth working from this rule in future: http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/910#post_24969313

Especially when one does not know what a setting does.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Might be worth working from this rule in future: http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/910#post_24969313
> 
> Especially when one does not know what a setting does.


Yeah ok. I do use that rule most the time. I honestly really just got thrown by the description.

Plus I knew that it is (was) recommended raising cpu current capability when overclocking so figured dram was the same.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Yeah ok. I do use that rule most the time. I honestly really just got thrown by the description.
> 
> Plus I knew that it is (was) recommended raising cpu current capability when overclocking so figured dram was the same.


basically I use dram current at 130% without problems arising. Sure - it's unnecessary, but not necessarily harmful. This is running 3866 on an M8E and 4000 (or 3866) on an M8I. (daaum - just love the M8I. Incredible little MB.







)


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> basically I use dram current at 130% without problems arising. Sure - it's unnecessary, but not necessarily harmful. This is running 3866 on an M8E and 4000 (or 3866) on an M8I. (daaum - just love the M8I. Incredible little MB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Yeah, I'll just leave it at 120% for my 3733 oc. I was just wondering if there was a widely used setting for it and why it didn't have auto even when it says in the description to use auto.....


----------



## llantant

After raja's belittling attempt at a response I am sorry I asked in the first place anyway.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> After raja's belittling attempt at a response I am sorry I asked in the first place anyway.


It wasn't really belittling, the thread is for NA users and you'd been asking questions for sometime in there - frequently too. I wouldn't have taken it personally







. You've gotten away with it since platform launch which was September last year


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It wasn't really belittling, the thread is for NA users and you'd been asking questions for sometime in there - frequently too. I wouldn't have taken it personally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You've gotten away with it since platform launch which was September last year


Haha yeah, I agree. Would have stopped had someone tidily pulled me on it of course. I have never been massively active in that thread outside of a bios question or two. Usually posted about unrelated things if I'm honest. I don't feel there should be a thread solely for NA if you want my opinion though. I'm sure there are reasons for it however.

What I was referring to by belittling took place above in this thread, I was not referring to the other. I originally overlooked it and other things in the past to be honest. I suppose the issue has now just given me a bee in my bonnet.

I won't keep dragging it up of course don't worry about that, I just wanted to mention it. Maybe to someone else it doesn't come across as belittling but to be honest to me it does and in any regard it is not correct behaviour for someone who is supposedly a rep(?) for up until now a company that I have never had an issue with.

Very un-professional in my opinion, granted my opinion my be slightly skewed with the events that took place yesterday.

Anyway, I won't drone on too much. I love this thread and the other oc guide the majority of the time !!









****
Just to add in at the end here I have absolute no issue whatsoever with being told I cannot use that thread for Asus support, that was never the issue.

Tried my cpu and ram in a another board too and flashed to 1504, no problem. Just my board is stuck on 1402, oh well.

Also the "super io" issue I had and was told to RMA the board, turned out to be psu. Corsair are sending me a new one, upgraded version and modular for my older non modular. With no box and I've lost the receipt, now that's customer service.


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah, best to just leave it be, but from this thread I don't see any belittling. Like I said in my post to you, a lot of the Digi+ can be left to the board. You've gotten this far with a reasonable overclock on the CPU and memory. There's really no need to change things for the sake of it as you've been told a handful of times. It seemed to me that you had your back up because of being told to stop asking questions in the regional thread.

Best to move on anyway


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It wasn't really belittling, the thread is for NA users and you'd been asking questions for sometime in there - frequently too. I wouldn't have taken it personally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You've gotten away with it since platform launch which was September last year


Silly restrictions. One is probably better off by not divulging their neck-of-the-woods and lying if asked. I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over that.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Silly restrictions. One is probably better off by not divulging their neck-of-the-woods and lying if asked. I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over that.


Sorry I don't speak Eldata.


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sorry I don't speak Eldata.


Yeah, that's me elsewhere. Were you trying to make a point?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Yeah, that's me elsewhere. Were you trying to make a point?


Not really as it is derailing the thread, Oparr. Not sure why you needed to butt in, but it's obvious to everyone that you have an unhealthy hatred towards one vendor, and yet still use them.

The fact you have no issues making this quite clear makes it completely pointless engaging with you. If you have any memory results worth posting please feel free to contribute.

Under whichever alias you feel like using, that is.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> After raja's belittling attempt at a response I am sorry I asked in the first place anyway.


Pointing out you had not actually tested the default setting before changing it was the point. Seeing as the need to do this has gone on for some time - as evidenced by the content and volume of posts on the matter over a 24 hour period - a more stern approach to nudge one off the train of thought was required.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yeah, best to just leave it be, but from this thread I don't see any belittling. Like I said in my post to you, a lot of the Digi+ can be left to the board. You've gotten this far with a reasonable overclock on the CPU and memory. There's really no need to change things for the sake of it as you've been told a handful of times. It seemed to me that you had your back up because of being told to stop asking questions in the regional thread.
> 
> Best to move on anyway


Here, here. We will agree to disagree.

Honestly that was not the reason I got annoyed.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Pointing out you had not actually tested the default setting before changing it was the point. Seeing as the need to do this has gone on for some time - as evidenced by the content and volume of posts on the matter over a 24 hour period - a more stern approach to nudge one off the train of thought was required.


Ok then. I could go on again about the confusion in dram description in the bios but I have derailed Silents thread enough.

Here is a pic of a newborn calf to cheers things up.



I have named him raja


----------



## Jpmboy

hey @silent scone - i certainly y have an example of different cpus behaving differently with the same ram on the same MB...
Good thing about these threads (and benchmark threads) is the archive of data.. well hopefully







. So I'm running the M8I/6600K with 4000 ram. Got some funny behavior - check HCIMT and popped an error. In the table up front entry 2 in the 8GB SK table the 6600K should be a 6700K (*post*. )
My 6600K can't seem to run 4000 stable after a bunch of tweaking, whereas my 6700K and 6320 have no problem.
The difference is nominal, so 3866c17 is what the ITX rig is running at ATM.


----------



## Silent Scone

Ah ok. Oddly enough I looked at the table the other day and wasn't sure if I'd put that in wrong, but I'll openly admit I couldn't be bothered to check







. Will change it momentarily


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Ok then. I could go on again about the confusion in dram description in the bios but I have derailed Silents thread enough.
> 
> Here is a pic of a newborn calf to cheers things up.
> 
> 
> 
> I have named him raja


My other half tells me I look more like a giraffe...


----------



## Jpmboy

getting some strange behavior with ram... 4 sticks in the M8E are much more productive than 2 stick, even with the 2 at a higher frequency? Or.. more likely, I have something in the 2 stick config set wrong.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> getting some strange behavior with ram... 4 sticks in the M8E are much more productive than 2 stick, even with the 2 at a higher frequency? Or.. more likely, I have something in the 2 stick config set wrong.


Sounds like T-Top layout on that board is paying off really, wouldn't call that odd


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sounds like T-Top layout on that board is paying off really, wouldn't call that odd


what does that mean?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> what does that mean?


People don't do their homework before purchasing boards?









T-Topology trace layout has been around for a good few years now. Majority of ASUS' Z170 line up use this design, reducing the latency induced by conventional daisy chain set-ups when using more than 2 DIMM, and improving overclocking with it in some cases.


----------



## Silent Scone

It's covered here

37:17 - Q&A - ASUS T-Topology

http://www.overclock.net/t/1577672/asus-straight-edge-podcast-skylake-and-the-z170-platform/0_40


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> People don't do their homework before purchasing boards?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-Topology trace layout has been around for a good few years now. Majority of ASUS' Z170 line up use this design, reducing the latency induced by conventional daisy chain set-ups when using more than 2 DIMM, and improving overclocking with it in some cases.


thanks. News to me









I have been rocking the ASRock boards as of late since they have given me good results over all.


----------



## Silent Scone

My condolences


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sounds like T-Top layout on that board is paying off really, wouldn't call that odd


yeah - no way around it that I can find. not all that dissimilar to the 4 vs 8 stick effect I noticed on the R5E. Tho I don't think the r5e uses T-Top


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- 6700K/M8E --- 4x8GB G Skill [email protected] 3466c15 1.475V, VSA 1.275V... but only 470% (~ 9 hours )


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice config









You not thought of playing with some 16GB sticks on the Impact?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice config
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You not thought of playing with some 16GB sticks on the Impact?


Yeah - I just stuck some "bargain" G Skill ram on it for now - 2x8GB. But haven't fired it up yet. not sure why I did that, just didn't seems right to put 2x4GB 4000 tridents on it considering its intended eventual use.


----------



## Silent Scone

8GB is cutting it fine these days for gaming, if that is the use you're speaking about


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 8GB is cutting it fine these days for gaming, if that is the use you're speaking about


Gaming only when the kids are visiting (hence the ASUS 960 mini) - it's really to eventually replace the aging q9650/DX48BT2 I built years ago which is my wife's Tax Prep PC (and everything else). Needs to be idiot proof or more correctly, "fault tolerant". Current set up has a raid 10 + spare with RE3 drives, + 2TB daily backup drive, 1600P monitor and too many USB devices. It runs great, but it's W7 and the newer tax prep software and e-file stuff is W10 compliant... not so W7 compliant. Ugh. NOt my thing you know, I became too use to having the IT guys in my company come over and rig the house up. Now that's owned by "others".
My main concern is migrating all her crap over, especially the older prep software. I'm thinking an "in-place upgrade" of her w7 install and see what works, then reinstalls?

The Impact is a nice rig... Intel 750 U.2, 512 muskin SSD for daily BUs, and NAS for weekly.


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> People don't do their homework before purchasing boards?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-Topology trace layout has been around for a good few years now. Majority of ASUS' Z170 line up use this design, reducing the latency induced by conventional daisy chain set-ups when using more than 2 DIMM, and improving overclocking with it in some cases.


Given that 4 DIMM DDR4 kits cost a premium and 2 DIMM kits fare much better when it comes to cooling, T-Crapology is probably better suited for server boards, where quantity is the priority and 4 or more sticks is a must, rather than enthusiast boards where performance and overclocking is the priority.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Given that 4 DIMM DDR4 kits cost a premium and 2 DIMM kits fare much better when it comes to cooling, T-Crapology is probably better suited for server boards, where quantity is the priority and 4 or more sticks is a must, rather than enthusiast boards where performance and overclocking is the priority.


When it comes to cooling? Sorry, I have to ask this...

Have you even used DDR4? I guess you must be pulling my leg with that one. Not sure it warranted a response. Good one, you got me! Oparr the joker! Cm'ere you!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Gaming only when the kids are visiting (hence the ASUS 960 mini) - it's really to eventually replace the aging q9650/DX48BT2 I built years ago which is my wife's Tax Prep PC (and everything else). Needs to be idiot proof or more correctly, "fault tolerant". Current set up has a raid 10 + spare with RE3 drives, + 2TB daily backup drive, 1600P monitor and too many USB devices. It runs great, but it's W7 and the newer tax prep software and e-file stuff is W10 compliant... not so W7 compliant. Ugh. NOt my thing you know, I became too use to having the IT guys in my company come over and rig the house up. Now that's owned by "others".
> My main concern is migrating all her crap over, especially the older prep software. I'm thinking an "in-place upgrade" of her w7 install and see what works, then reinstalls?
> 
> The Impact is a nice rig... Intel 750 U.2, 512 muskin SSD for daily BUs, and NAS for weekly.


Yeah I'm really considering using the Impact for my gaming rig. Having a break from bigger is better at the moment.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> getting some strange behavior with ram... 4 sticks in the M8E are much more productive than 2 stick, even with the 2 at a higher frequency? Or.. more likely, I have something in the 2 stick config set wrong.


Having more banks to interleave provides benefits for performance.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> When it comes to cooling? Sorry, I have to ask this...
> 
> Have you even used DDR4? I guess you must be pulling my leg with that one. Not sure it warranted a response. Good one, you got me! Oparr the joker! Cm'ere you!
> Yeah I'm really considering using the Impact for my gaming rig. Having a break from bigger is better at the moment.


I think it will be a great performer... maybe a 2 gpu single slot card would do the trick.









oh, btw - that bargin GS ram kit? too easy to get to 2800c15 w/ 1.475V. The Impact is simply magic with ram.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Having more banks to interleave provides benefits for performance.


I think that's the third time you told me that... were's my postit notes.


----------



## [email protected]

Memory issues..lol


----------



## Duality92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Memory issues..lol


Oh dear god, that pun.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Memory issues..lol


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> When it comes to cooling? Sorry, I have to ask this...
> 
> Have you even used DDR4? I guess you must be pulling my leg with that one. Not sure it warranted a response. Good one, you got me! Oparr the joker! Cm'ere you!


Four 4GB sticks in all four slots, with very little clearance between them, is going to run cooler than two 8GB sticks in slots A2/B2 with a whole slot width between them?...In your dreams. If the T-Crapology implementation had the ability to optimize based on sticks detected in a four memory slot enthusiast motherboard, instead of always penalizing two sticks when used, then Asus could have something to brag about.


----------



## Kimir

Those things doesn't even heat in the first place. Haven't seen a difference between running 4 dimms and 8 dimms one the RVE when it comes to temperature.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Those things doesn't even heat in the first place. Haven't seen a difference between running 4 dimms and 8 dimms one the RVE when it comes to temperature.


me either with 8 sticks on the R5E witrh 1.455V VDIMM, or the M8E with 1.7V


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> me either with 8 sticks on the R5E witrh 1.455V VDIMM, or the M8E with 1.7V


What's the 90mm fan for in this post then;

http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/880#post_24947447


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Four 4GB sticks in all four slots, with very little clearance between them, is going to run cooler than two 8GB sticks in slots A2/B2 with a whole slot width between them?...In your dreams. If the T-Crapology implementation had the ability to optimize based on sticks detected in a four memory slot enthusiast motherboard, instead of always penalizing two sticks when used, then Asus could have something to brag about.


The word "implementation" suggests you know of a method to make trace routing "dynamic" based on slot population. Care to elaborate on how this would work?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> What's the 90mm fan for in this post then;
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/880#post_24947447


At the high voltages he is talking, most users would use active cooling even with two sticks. The fans would cool 4 sticks equally as well as 2.

I really don't understand your angle, and I doubt others do either. You have stated in the past that you have been a ASUS user for a long time. ASUS have had T-Topology for three generations now. If you hate it so much, why are you still buying the boards?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> If the T-Crapology implementation had the ability to optimize based on sticks detected in a four memory slot enthusiast motherboard, instead of always penalizing two sticks when used, then Asus could have something to brag about.


Hello

lol. In-use trace auto rerouting. This type of thought process makes me wonder if maybe you had a hand in this fiasco.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/561041-980ti-darwin-awards-help/?page=1


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The word "implementation" suggests you know of a method to make trace routing "dynamic" based on slot population. Care to elaborate on how this would work?
> At the high voltages he is talking, most users would use active cooling even with two sticks. The fans would cool 4 sticks equally as well as 2.
> 
> I really don't understand your angle, and I doubt others do either. You have stated in the past that you have been a ASUS user for a long time. ASUS have had T-Topology for three generations now. If you hate it so much, why are you still buying the boards?


Nothing here is worth replying to.


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> lol. In-use trace auto rerouting. This type of thought process makes me wonder if maybe you had a hand in this fiasco.
> 
> https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/561041-980ti-darwin-awards-help/?page=1


Ditto.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Nothing here is worth replying to.


Ahh, I get it, this epiphany of yours regarding a dynamic trace routing implementation is patent worthy isn't it?


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Ahh, I get it, this epiphany of yours regarding a dynamic trace routing implementation is patent worthy isn't it?


SLR - Switched Layer Routing.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> SLR - Switched Layer Routing.


It would make both worse, let alone be impossible, but feel free to offer this multi-million dollar epiphany to a mb vendor...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The word "implementation" suggests you know of a method to make trace routing "dynamic" based on slot population. Care to elaborate on how this would work?
> At the high voltages he is talking, most users would use active cooling even with two sticks. The fans would cool 4 sticks equally as well as 2.
> 
> I really don't understand your angle, and I doubt others do either. You have stated in the past that you have been a ASUS user for a long time. ASUS have had T-Topology for three generations now. If you hate it so much, why are you still buying the boards?


thanks bro - I blocked this guy so didn't see the post. Anyway, The 90MM fan is there 'cause I'm OC...D.







Specifically the TZ kit's heat sinks are so fat that there is zero space between them (hence the "4-pack"). At 1.7V (for 3866c12) the fan helps. Otherwise it's an old habit. As you say, all they need is a gentle direct air flow and temps are always<30C.

BTW - had a little time after spreading 4 tons of red stone (extra parking area at the farm) and have that bargain GSkill kit ($50 for 2x8GB) at 3000 15-15-15-35 with 1.485V got to 100% in HCI. I'll let it run overnight. By IR gun, temps were 35C with no extra cooling (no heat sinks on these cheap sticks)


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It would make both worse, let alone be impossible, but feel free to offer this multi-million dollar epiphany to a mb vendor...


Humoring the absurdity you had put forward. The notion that an implementation can't be flawed unless there's a better alternative is equally absurd.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Humoring the absurdity you had put forward. The notion that an implementation can't be flawed unless there's a better alternative is equally absurd.


Both topologies have a trade off. Your suggestion is flawed for both and is impossible to implement. With that said, if you don't like T-Topology, buy a board that has a daisy chain layout. As mentioned earlier, the ASUS boards have used T-Topology for three generations now. If you hate it with the passion you have shown in this thread, you should not have purchased an ASUS board.


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Both topologies have a trade off. Your suggestion is flawed for both and is impossible to implement. With that said, if you don't like T-Topology, buy a board that has a daisy chain layout. As mentioned earlier, the ASUS boards have used T-Topology for three generations now. If you hate it with the passion you have shown in this thread, you should not have purchased an ASUS board.


Made no suggestions other than humoring you with your patent nonsense.....SLR - Single Lens Reflex (camera jargon), Switched Layer Routing (networking jargon with PCB similarities). Time will tell whether Asus' failure so far to address MRC issues, in their entry level four memory slot motherboards, has anything to do with T-Crapology. This thread of complainers also includes owners of M8E, M8F and M8H four slot boards;

http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=149795

"You get what you pay for", as someone implied in a thread somewhere, doesn't apply since the memory and configurations are all in the QVL for the boards. Furthermore, Corsair is not seeing these complaints from owners of non-Asus motherboards. Given this debacle (albeit with yet to be proven links to T-C...), along with the fact that 2 DIMM memory kits are more enthusiast oriented, there is absolutely no reason to be placing T-C... on any pedestal when it comes to Z170/DDR4.

Personally, I have no issues with Asus MBs and haven't had to RMA one in the last 20 years. T-C... hasn't affected me either but when someone with Asus Tunnel Vision Syndrome (hint, hint) goes on about how great some Asus product or attribute is, and IMO it's just the opposite, then it's time to rumble.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Made no suggestions other than humoring you with your patent nonsense.....SLR - Single Lens Reflex (camera jargon), Switched Layer Routing (networking jargon with PCB similarities). Time will tell whether Asus' failure so far to address MRC issues, in their entry level four memory slot motherboards, has anything to do with T-Crapology. This thread of complainers also includes owners of M8E, M8F and M8H four slot boards


My post was referring to the one you made before you mentioned the SLR acronym. The one that you didn't have the nous to reply to.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> "You get what you pay for", as someone implied in a thread somewhere, doesn't apply since the memory and configurations are all in the QVL for the boards. Furthermore, Corsair is not seeing these complaints from owners of non-Asus motherboards. Given this debacle (albeit with yet to be proven links to T-C...), along with the fact that 2 DIMM memory kits are more enthusiast oriented, there is absolutely no reason to be placing T-C... on any pedestal when it comes to Z170/DDR4.


Anything under a Hero is 4 layer. The other vendors with 4 layer boards are setting incorrect primary timings (looser) for the kits. It's a horrible workaround. The QVL has a disclaimer regarding the capabilities of each CPU. Whichever way one wires a 4 layer board, there will be a tradeoff.

As you can plainly see from the results in this thread, when dialled in correctly memory overclocking with the higher tier boards is exactly where it should be.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- 6700K/M8E --- 4x8GB G Skill [email protected] 3466c15 1.475V, VSA 1.275V... but only 470% (~ 9 hours )


Added


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Added


thanks scone! note a correction for the table - ram is at 3466, not 3200.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> thanks scone! note a correction for the table - ram is at 3466, not 3200.


Wow, with four 8GB sticks? Are you sure?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Wow, with four 8GB sticks? Are you sure?


wait - where's my postit notes.


----------



## Kimir

Oh you and your "memory issues".









Wait, it's on the screenshot, no postit needed that time!


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> My post was referring to the one you made before you mentioned the SLR acronym. The one that you didn't have the nous to reply to.
> Anything under a Hero is 4 layer. The other vendors with 4 layer boards are setting incorrect primary timings (looser) for the kits. It's a horrible workaround. The QVL has a disclaimer regarding the capabilities of each CPU. Whichever way one wires a 4 layer board, there will be a tradeoff.
> 
> As you can plainly see from the results in this thread, when dialled in correctly memory overclocking with the higher tier boards is exactly where it should be.


WOT!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Oh you and your "memory issues".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, it's on the screenshot, no postit needed that time!


working (or occasionally peeking in on) this cheapo 2x8GB 2400c15 kit running 3000c15 on the impact - 550% in... lookin good for $50.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> working (or occasionally peeking in on) this cheapo 2x8GB 2400c15 kit running 3000c15 on the impact - 550% in... lookin good for $50.


Nice indeed. It's Samsung of hynix based?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Nice indeed. It's Samsung of hynix based?


Hynix!

*New entry:*
_______________________
jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.6 M8 Impact --- 2x8GB G Skill 2400c15 @ 3000C15-15-15-35-T1 --- VDIMM = 1.5V, VSA = 1.275V, VCCIO = 1.212V. HCI MT 700% -ish










http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231964
I know heat sinks are a nice dress-up. But call me a luddite, I really like naked ram sticks.


----------



## Silent Scone

Lol, naked is 'in' this year. I'm telling you


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Lol, naked is 'in' this year. I'm telling you


naked is in every year! Well.. maybe not Hillary.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> naked is in every year! Well.. maybe not Hillary.


What a picture!


----------



## Jpmboy




----------



## done12many2

This thread is heading downhill fast!

Jpmboy, thanks for pointing me in the right direction on the memory. I'm finally happy with my setup.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> This thread is heading downhill fast!
> 
> Jpmboy, thanks for pointing me in the right direction on the memory. I'm finally happy with my setup.


We are all good, ignore the convo from the other day. Some people need to be put in their place or else they will keep coming back to derail.









Hopefully BW-E will add some flavour to the results table


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> We are all good, ignore the convo from the other day. Some people need to be put in their place or else they will keep coming back to derail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully BW-E will add some flavour to the results table


I saw it all happening and laughed.

I'm looking forward to Broadwell-E myself. That podcast got me pretty motivated. It's amazing how the tone of a voice can imply a lot.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> I saw it all happening and laughed.
> 
> I'm looking forward to Broadwell-E myself. That podcast got me pretty motivated. It's amazing how the tone of a voice can imply a lot.


lol - it was a popcorn and doritos moment for sure!








BW-E!


----------



## Kimir

What exactly are you talking about on BW-E? Sorry I didn't follow here.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> What exactly are you talking about on BW-E? Sorry I didn't follow here.


Broadwell (5960x, 5930k, and 5820k) had a nice long run, but Broadwell-E will be the new big boy on the block.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Broadwell Haswell (5960x, 5930k, and 5820k) had a nice long run, but Broadwell-E will be the new big boy on the block.


Corrected.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> What exactly are you talking about on BW-E? Sorry I didn't follow here.


BW-E... soon please?


----------



## done12many2

I got a little Broadwell excited there. Thanks again Jpmboy.


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> What exactly are you talking about on BW-E? Sorry I didn't follow here.


On the Asus/Intel podcast, the Intel Enthusiast Marketing Lead guy said that as an enthusiast, he was terribly excited about Broadwell-E.

Start listening at about 34:45 or so:

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/0/e/2/0e2d5eac6ee86244/ASUS_Straight_Edge_Podcast_Episode_3.mp3?c_id=11251071&expiration=1458524599&hwt=244189d5678e352e57b0159f624bf455


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Corrected.
> BW-E... soon please?


Not too soon, my wallet says no no!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GnarlyCharlie*
> 
> On the Asus/Intel podcast, the Intel Enthusiast Marketing Lead guy said that as an enthusiast, he was terribly excited about Broadwell-E.
> 
> Start listening at about 34:45 or so:
> 
> http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/0/e/2/0e2d5eac6ee86244/ASUS_Straight_Edge_Podcast_Episode_3.mp3?c_id=11251071&expiration=1458524599&hwt=244189d5678e352e57b0159f624bf455


Thats what I thought it was about, I'm not into podcast, I guess I'll listen to that part when I've got the time.
Thanks for the link.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> My post was referring to the one you made before you mentioned the SLR acronym. The one that you didn't have the nous to reply to.
> Anything under a Hero is 4 layer. The other vendors with 4 layer boards are setting incorrect primary timings (looser) for the kits. It's a horrible workaround. The QVL has a disclaimer regarding the capabilities of each CPU. Whichever way one wires a 4 layer board, there will be a tradeoff.
> 
> As you can plainly see from the results in this thread, when dialled in correctly memory overclocking with the higher tier boards is exactly where it should be.


Where do you get the info on which board is how many layers..?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> We are all good, ignore the convo from the other day. Some people need to be put in their place or else they will keep coming back to derail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully BW-E will add some flavour to the results table


Speaking of the results table, why not add a column for memory config used. Currently in the 8-16GB tab, there's no way of telling if the 16GB guys ran 2*8GB or 4*4GB.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GnarlyCharlie*
> 
> On the Asus/Intel podcast, the Intel Enthusiast Marketing Lead guy said that as an enthusiast, he was terribly excited about Broadwell-E.
> 
> Start listening at about 34:45 or so:
> 
> http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/0/e/2/0e2d5eac6ee86244/ASUS_Straight_Edge_Podcast_Episode_3.mp3?c_id=11251071&expiration=1458524599&hwt=244189d5678e352e57b0159f624bf455


He is a marketing guy, that's kind of his job.

Broadwell-E will bring efficiency & perf/watt improvements, but the overclocking potential is gonna be weak, atleast at launch (kind of like Haswell-E, but maybe worse).


----------



## Ayahuasca

BW-E is going to be a hard sell for us on 4.5ghz+ HW-E.


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ayahuasca*
> 
> BW-E is going to be a hard sell for us on 4.5ghz+ HW-E.


I wish we knew how much of an IPC improvement Broadwell really had, and not what was just performing better because of its L4 cache. If Broadwell-E matches Haswell=E within a few percent, it has to either clock better (not likely considering little Broadwell) or offer more cores compared to previous price points to warrant an upgrade (more likely, especially given the rumors).


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> I wish we knew how much of an IPC improvement Broadwell really had, and not what was just performing better because of its L4 cache. If Broadwell-E matches Haswell=E within a few percent, it has to either clock better (not likely considering little Broadwell) or offer more cores compared to previous price points to warrant an upgrade (more likely, especially given the rumors).


This info will be available when the CPUs launch to buy. Most of the sites run plenty of benchmarks comparing processors.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GnarlyCharlie*
> 
> On the Asus/Intel podcast, the Intel Enthusiast Marketing Lead guy said that as an enthusiast, he was terribly excited about Broadwell-E.
> 
> Start listening at about 34:45 or so:
> 
> http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/0/e/2/0e2d5eac6ee86244/ASUS_Straight_Edge_Podcast_Episode_3.mp3?c_id=11251071&expiration=1458524599&hwt=244189d5678e352e57b0159f624bf455


The discussion was related to some new features. Can't say more than that.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> He is a marketing guy, that's kind of his job.
> 
> Broadwell-E will bring efficiency & perf/watt improvements, but the overclocking potential is gonna be weak, atleast at launch (kind of like Haswell-E, but maybe worse).


I don't know about the sample you tested, but I'm gonna remain optimistic.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> I don't know about the sample you tested, but I'm gonna remain optimistic.


I personally didn't test any Chips, but I happen to be friends with someone who works for one of the motherboard manufacturers.

I am just saying what he told me. Mainstream Broadwell was mediocre at best (I know it was one big IGP, but still), so no matter how hard they try, Broadwell-E isn't gonna end up that far from it. There's a reason Skylake-E is gonna follow soon after.

Personally I'd be happy even if they just fix the stupid broken memory dividers.


----------



## Jpmboy

yeah, my worry is that we've gotten use to (= expect) routine 50% overclocks on 8-core processors... 10 cores have a high bar to clear. That said, I'll be getting one, at launch. Did the same with the 5960X. My launch chip wasn't the best when compared a year later, but big bertha did not disappoint.


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> He is a marketing guy, that's kind of his job.
> 
> Broadwell-E will bring efficiency & perf/watt improvements, but the overclocking potential is gonna be weak, atleast at launch (kind of like Haswell-E, but maybe worse).


Yeah, I get it. Maybe efficiency & perf/watt improvements are what gets the enthusiast in him terribly excited, but he seemed to be a bit of an overclocker at heart.

It'd be hard for me to ever go back to less than 8 cores now. Not sure what Skylake-E will come in at, core-wise, and I'm happy enough with Haswell-E that I wouldn't really need a Broadwell-E, so I'll just wait and see what shakes out.


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Speaking of the results table, why not add a column for memory config used. Currently in the 8-16GB tab, there's no way of telling if the 16GB guys ran 2*8GB or 4*4GB.


Good suggestion. Also, some consistent standard indicating performance. Memory frequency isn't good enough. Neither are AIDA64 memory benchmarks. Lower frequency with better timings from one individual can outperform higher frequency and lousy timings from another. What's the objective here, just stability at highest frequency with no regard for performance?


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oparr*
> 
> Also, some consistent standard indicating performance. Memory frequency isn't good enough. Neither are AIDA64 memory benchmarks. Lower frequency with better timings from one individual can outperform higher frequency and lousy timings from another.


Got any suggestions?


----------



## Jpmboy

*Official* Skylake & Haswell-E 24/7 *Memory Stability thread*

performance "standards" will need to be different comparing quad and dual channel, and will be different depending on the intended use.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> *Official* Skylake & Haswell-E 24/7 *Memory Stability thread*


I'm heading to the pantry.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> I'm heading to the pantry.


Pub.. heading to the pub.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Pub.. heading to the pub.


My wife was nice enough to let me retire, but I guarantee if she finds me in a Pub before noon I'm off to start a new career.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> My wife was nice enough to let me retire, but I guarantee if she finds me in a Pub before noon I'm off to start a new career.


After noon is okay? I am very jealous.


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

It's noon someplace!


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> After noon is okay? I am very jealous.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GnarlyCharlie*
> 
> It's noon someplace!


How does anyone get bent out of shape amongst a group like this?

Anyways, on a COMPLETELY unrelated note, I just installed the wifi antenna that came with my motherboard. Should I keep it towards the front or move it to the rear? I'm worried that the hot air coming off of my radiators might degrade signal


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> How does anyone get bent out of shape amongst a group like this?
> 
> Anyways, on a COMPLETELY unrelated note, I just installed the wifi antenna that came with my motherboard. Should I keep it towards the front or move it to the rear? I'm worried that the hot air coming off of my radiators might degrade signal


nah - I stuck mine right on the rad. Only magnetic thing on the back of this bench and on the ITX case for another build. Signal is fine.


----------



## nexxusty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ayahuasca*
> 
> BW-E is going to be a hard sell for us on 4.5ghz+ HW-E.


You do know you're in a RAM thread right? The IMC alone is enough to grab Broadwell-E for me.

Let alone the increased IPC and core count.

4000mhz Quad Channel 24/7 is something I want to be a part of.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nexxusty*
> 
> You do know you're in a RAM thread right? The IMC alone is enough to grab Broadwell-E for me.
> 
> Let alone the increased IPC and core count.
> 
> 4000mhz Quad Channel 24/7 is something I want to be a part of.


Tbh we aren't entirely sure if 4000Mhz quad channel will come with Broadwell-E or Skylake-E..


----------



## nexxusty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Tbh we aren't entirely sure if 4000Mhz quad channel will come with Broadwell-E or Skylake-E..


I'm almost positive it will come with Broadwell-E. We're already at 3800mhz on Haswell-E AFAIK.


----------



## rt123

No we aren't , best I've seen is 3600Mhz on Haswell-E & that required a rare chip with great IMC.
Also it was only benching stable & required some tricks to get upto 3600Mhz.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nexxusty*
> 
> You do know you're in a RAM thread right? The IMC alone is enough to grab Broadwell-E for me.


2600 supported by Intel, real OC probably similar to HW-E.
Quote:


> Let alone the increased IPC and core count.


IPC increased next to nonexistant, if they will not release basically Sky-E for X99. And both entry models would have 6 cores.
Quote:


> 4000mhz Quad Channel 24/7 is something I want to be a part of.


4 Hz speed? Why?

On the bright side, it's coming. I seen signs on sellers. It's happening the stuff that happens when CPU are one or two months from release and sellers are supposed to keep mum.
(Of course they might just estimate it and just guessing. So it's not reliable.)


----------



## nexxusty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> 2600 supported by Intel, real OC probably similar to HW-E.
> IPC increased next to nonexistant, if they will not release basically Sky-E for X99. And both entry models would have 6 cores.
> 4 Hz speed? Why?


No practical reasons whatsoever. Lol.

I'm not trying to say there is going to be a major increase in IPC. We all know it won't be much. I'm looking at the 6950x with 10 cores or 8 core variants.

Done with 6 core chips myself.


----------



## Raghar

I think Zen would shake things a bit and forces Intel into more cores. I wonder how many cores would have Kaby Lake.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> On the bright side, it's coming. I seen signs on sellers. It's happening the stuff that happens when CPU are one or two months from release and sellers are supposed to keep mum.
> (Of course they might just estimate it and just guessing. So it's not reliable.)


Launching at Computex / early June.


----------



## Raghar

I'm not exactly sure they would wait to computex. BTW any news on Sky-E release date?


----------



## DamselinDistres

What's the highest voltage you guys are willing to go with all 8dimm slots full? I have some gskill ripjaw v series that can overclock to 2933 at 15 -16 -16 38 1t with 1.37v but can't do that with all 8 slots full only 4. I'm thinking if I give it 1.4+ it should work. Is this safe?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> I'm not exactly sure they would wait to computex. BTW any news on Sky-E release date?


Its their decision.
Its supposed to be Q2, so could be early but I doubt it.
Skylake-E was supposed to be Q1 2017 according to rumours. Some rumours also said Q4, but I sincerely doubt that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> What's the highest voltage you guys are willing to go with all 8dimm slots full? I have some gskill ripjaw v series that can overclock to 2933 at 15 -16 -16 38 1t with 1.37v but can't do that with all 8 slots full only 4. I'm thinking if I give it 1.4+ it should work. Is this safe?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


1.4V Should be fine.
1.45V would be the max I would push for 24/7.


----------



## DamselinDistres

Thank you so much! If I went higher then 1.45 should I have some kind of active cooling on the sticks? Also how do some of the guys/gals push their voltage to 1.7??????? That's insane wouldn't temps be out of this world?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> What's the highest voltage you guys are willing to go with all 8dimm slots full? I have some gskill ripjaw v series that can overclock to 2933 at 15 -16 -16 38 1t with 1.37v but can't do that with all 8 slots full only 4. I'm thinking if I give it 1.4+ it should work. Is this safe?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


x99/5960X - with the 8x4GB kit I'm running, 1.45V for 3000c13 and 1.4V for 2666c12. The kit has been at either of those voltages for about a year.


----------



## DamselinDistres

Thanks for that info I have a 5960x and a saber too the as my set up. I was able to get it too 5.2 on two cores and 4.9 on the rest but the ram has been holding me back since I got the last 4 sticks. I'm going to try the 2933 15-16-16-35-1t at 1.4v when i get back from work tonight !

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## DamselinDistres

I forgot to add (can't edit my previous post due to being on a mobile device) I am using 8GB sticks and have a total of 64GB. I hear you can expect the same overclock from a 4GB stick as an 8GB. Is there a "ceiling" for overclocks on 8GB sticks?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> Thank you so much! If I went higher then 1.45 should I have some kind of active cooling on the sticks? Also how do some of the guys/gals push their voltage to 1.7??????? That's insane wouldn't temps be out of this world?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


You could put some fans on the sticks at mild speeds.

Above 1.6V, there's a chance of degradation of RAM and/or IMC.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> I forgot to add (can't edit my previous post due to being on a mobile device) I am using 8GB sticks and have a total of 64GB. I hear you can expect the same overclock from a 4GB stick as an 8GB. Is there a "ceiling" for overclocks on 8GB sticks?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


Depends on what Sticks you have.

If you have the Samsung B-die, the ceiling would be the same.


----------



## Jpmboy

I'd add, if reading your post correctly, you are mixing 2 32GB kits.... http://www.overclock.net/t/1510001/asus-rampage-v-extreme-owners-thread/8500_20#post_25007475
read the ROG thread: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview


----------



## DamselinDistres

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> You could put some fans on the sticks at mild speeds.
> 
> Above 1.6V, there's a chance of degradation of RAM and/or IMC.
> Depends on what Sticks you have.
> 
> If you have the Samsung B-die, the ceiling would be the same.


Thanks! I didn't realize you can push the ram that much! I am currently using 4 sets of 2x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws V 2400Mhz Cas 15 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231888 )
I know I should have purchased a single 64GB ram set or better yet 2 32Gb packs but... the deal was too good to pass up







! I was able to get 32GB for $116 so 64GB for $232 for 2400 which I thought was pretty good lol Do you know if these are Samsung or Hynix? (I assume it's either of the two)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I'd add, if reading your post correctly, you are mixing 2 32GB kits.... http://www.overclock.net/t/1510001/asus-rampage-v-extreme-owners-thread/8500_20#post_25007475
> read the ROG thread: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview


Some really good information there, thank you! Looks like i'm in for some serious fine tuning to get all the sticks running at my original overclock lol


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> Thanks! I didn't realize you can push the ram that much! I am currently using 4 sets of 2x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws V 2400Mhz Cas 15 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231888 )
> I know I should have purchased a single 64GB ram set or better yet 2 32Gb packs but... the deal was too good to pass up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ! I was able to get 32GB for $116 so 64GB for $232 for 2400 which I thought was pretty good lol Do you know if these are Samsung or Hynix? (I assume it's either of the two)
> Some really good information there, thank you! Looks like i'm in for some serious fine tuning to get all the sticks running at my original overclock lol


LOL- 4 16gb Kits? Daaum. Hynix or Samsung.. or both. GL Let us know how it works out


----------



## Raghar

Typically he needs to test all of them in isolation, and then put all timings by hand, and also use CR2.


----------



## DamselinDistres

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> LOL- 4 16gb Kits? Daaum. Hynix or Samsung.. or both. GL Let us know how it works out


Haha I know insane right







well I have it stable at 2666 at 15-16-16-38-2t with 1.3v for the past few weeks but I was able to get 2933 with 15 16 16 35 1t with 1.35v with only 4 sticks of course


----------



## DamselinDistres

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Typically he needs to test all of them in isolation, and then put all timings by hand, and also use CR2.


What is CR2?


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> What is CR2?


2T in your timing example.


----------



## DamselinDistres

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GnarlyCharlie*
> 
> 2T in your timing example.


O gotcha thank you for the clarification!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> Haha I know insane right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well I have it stable at *2666 at 15-16-16-38-2t with 1.3*v for the past few weeks but I was able to get 2933 with 15 16 16 35 1t with 1.35v with only 4 sticks of course


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> What is CR2?


command rate ("T").

2666 result is promising (with 64GB?). 1.4V is nominal for DDR4 so you have plenty of room. Like I posted, I have 32GB 8 sticks running at 1.4-1.45V for over a year... still going.


----------



## DamselinDistres

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> command rate ("T").
> 
> 2666 result is promising (with 64GB?). 1.4V is nominal for DDR4 so you have plenty of room. Like I posted, I have 32GB 8 sticks running at 1.4-1.45V for over a year... still going.


I'm currently trying to get a bit more out of it! But yes right now I can get 2666Mhz with 15-16-16-38-2t at 1.3v with 64GB! It passed hci mem test of course only did 100% Glad to hear I can run that voltage for extended periods of time!


----------



## DamselinDistres

I got it to 15-15-15-35-2t but now my keyboard won't "turn on" until I get into the desktop. There's even a warning saying no keyboard detected. Ever have this problem when overclocking ram?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamselinDistres*
> 
> I got it to 15-15-15-35-2t but now my keyboard won't "turn on" until I get into the desktop. There's even a warning saying no keyboard detected. Ever have this problem when overclocking ram?


USB quirks can be stability related. You want to be testing HCI with more than 100% coverage before reducing timings further


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> USB quirks can be stability related. You want to be testing HCI with more than 100% coverage before reducing timings further


missed this entry: http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/960_20#post_25001647


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> missed this entry: http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/960_20#post_25001647


Didn't bud, will add later


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Didn't bud, will add later


thought i could send ya a postit note pack.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> thought i could send ya a postit note pack.


Cheek.

Could do with a few to be fair.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Hynix!
> 
> *New entry:*
> _______________________
> jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.6 M8 Impact --- 2x8GB G Skill 2400c15 @ 3000C15-15-15-35-T1 --- VDIMM = 1.5V, VSA = 1.275V, VCCIO = 1.212V. HCI MT 700% -ish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231964
> I know heat sinks are a nice dress-up. But call me a luddite, I really like naked ram sticks.


Result added


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Result added


thanks. Now I can find it later when I need to... and no postit involved!


----------



## Azazil1190

im here nice to meet you guys









so my question is ...can i run on x99a safe 3000 memory clcock bclk 100?or is better to stay at 2666 my memorys are at 3200 with xmp but i dont like 125 and above
cpu i7 5820k at 4.4 1.3 votage.
And second and last question.what about the geil extreme thermal paste? i use a corsair h100i on my system for now im thinking to go for ek predator 240

thnx in advace


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azazil1190*
> 
> im here nice to meet you guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so my question is ...can i run on x99a safe 3000 memory clcock bclk 100?or is better to stay at 2666 my memorys are at 3200 with xmp but i dont like 125 and above
> cpu i7 5820k at 4.4 1.3 votage.
> And second and last question.what about the geil extreme thermal paste? i use a corsair h100i on my system for now im thinking to go for ek predator 240
> 
> thnx in advace


3000 on strap 100 can be (is) tricky.
3200 ram would be strap 100... if that's the XMP, just tune that up.
Gelid extreme is excellent TIM. Use it.


----------



## Azazil1190

Finally im fine i think stable since now at 3200 16-16-16-36 1.35 stock timmings at bclk 100
i ll make some more test on memtest.
Do you have other programme to suggest for memory stability oc?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azazil1190*
> 
> Finally im fine i think stable since now at 3200 16-16-16-36 1.35 stock timmings at bclk 100
> i ll make some more test on memtest.
> Do you have other programme to suggest for memory stability oc?


besides HCi Memtest?


----------



## llantant

llantant --- [email protected]/4.6 M8Hero --- 2x8GB G Skill 3600c17 @ 3733C17-18-18-38-T1 --- VDIMM = 1.35V, VSA = 1.25V, VCCIO = 1.212V. HCI MT 2400%

I forgot I left memtest running!

Same ram kit as before but without the additional secondaries tweaked. I can do the xmp timings but at 3733mhz on only 1.35v! So happy with that. Bot sure if its 1504 bios or not, because im sure I couldnt do it before.

I also sent my M8E back lol. Didnt open it. Starting to put some cash aside and going to jump into Skylake-E next year. Plus my wife wasnt too happy







and I need a new GPU.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> llantant --- [email protected]/4.6 M8Hero --- 2x8GB G Skill 3600c17 @ 3733C17-18-18-38-T1 --- VDIMM = 1.35V, VSA = 1.25V, VCCIO = 1.212V. HCI MT 2400%
> 
> I forgot I left memtest running!
> 
> Same ram kit as before but without the additional secondaries tweaked. I can do the xmp timings but at 3733mhz on only 1.35v! So happy with that. Bot sure if its 1504 bios or not, because im sure I couldnt do it before.
> 
> I also sent my M8E back lol. Didnt open it. Starting to put some cash aside and going to jump into Skylake-E next year. Plus my wife wasnt too happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I need a new GPU.


Nice overclock


----------



## djgar

After upgrading my X99-A MB to BIOS 2101 I was able to get my memory up to DDR4-3343 with a CPU speed of 4.7 GHz for 24x7 use (1 hr Google stressapp + 2.5 hrs RealBench stress). Ironically with BIOS 2001 I was getting somewhat better base memory throughput @ DDR4-3286 + CPU @ 4.62 GHz, but fortunately the higher CPU speed appears to more than make up for it


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> After upgrading my X99-A MB to BIOS 2101 I was able to get my memory up to DDR4-3343 with a CPU speed of 4.7 GHz for 24x7 use (1 hr Google stressapp + 2.5 hrs RealBench stress). Ironically with BIOS 2001 I was getting somewhat better base memory throughput @ DDR4-3286 + CPU @ 4.62 GHz, but fortunately the higher CPU speed appears to more than make up for it


Can you show your AIDA screens with voltages and CPU power consumption?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Can you show your AIDA screens with voltages and CPU power consumption?


Here you go. Aida OSD is on the right - the CPU package power is not valid because I have CPU SVID disabled.


----------



## Silent Scone

Been a bit quiet but thought I'd add a couple of obscurer ones to the table. This is not really a result many will want to replicate due to the amount of voltage being put through both the memory controller and the memory itself, which will be represented by the colour scheme once added to the leader board, but these speeds (4200 to add) are possible. At least when coupled with the M8 Impact and capable CPU and memory.

Silent Scone --- [email protected]/4.0 M8 Impact --- 2x4GB @ 4133C20-21-21-62-1T --- VDIMM = 1.66V, VSA = 1.36V, VCCIO = 1.24V. HCI 1000%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Been a bit quiet but thought I'd add a couple of obscurer ones to the table. This is not really a result many will want to replicate due to the amount of voltage being put through both the memory controller and the memory itself, which will be represented by the colour scheme once added to the leader board, but these speeds (4200 to add) are possible. At least when coupled with the M8 Impact and capable CPU and memory.
> 
> Silent Scone --- [email protected]/4.0 M8 Impact --- 2x4GB @ 4133C20-21-21-62-1T --- VDIMM = 1.66V, VSA = 1.36V, VCCIO = 1.24V. HCI 1000%


Dude - and 1T no less! Very nice. What - that voltage bothers you?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Dude - and 1T no less! Very nice. What - that voltage bothers you?


Not on the CPU or memory in question speaking personally, but it may bother some. 1.37v SA is on the high side









We both know there is no real reason to be up this high, and 16gb kits are more practical nower days. It's just good to see what these CPU can do. Also there is probably a penalty on cache when going this far.


----------



## djgar

How do the high timings vs. fast clock work out? It's a wacky combination!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> How do the high timings vs. fast clock work out? It's a wacky combination!


Depending on the application / benchmark there is likely a penalty, hence there really being little point pushing things this far. 3400-3600 is a good place to be on this platform.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Depending on the application / benchmark there is likely a penalty, hence there really being little point pushing things this far. 3400-3600 is a good place to be on this platform.


But hey, it's fun checking it out!


----------



## KixNGrins

I have a question or two on HCI MemTest (free version). Using the example given in the OP that for 8G you need 4 instances of MemTest running and set to 1750G each, one for each thread. How do I tell how many threads I have? Running x264, I enter 16 threads because that seemed to be what the instructions said. Does this mean I need to have 16 instances of Memtest running at 1750?

Sorry if this is a basic question...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Not on the CPU or memory in question speaking personally, but it may bother some. 1.37v SA is on the high side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We both know there is no real reason to be up this high, and 16gb kits are more practical nower days. It's just good to see what these CPU can do. Also there is probably a penalty on cache when going this far.


oh for sure. 1.35V VSA up there./ It REALLY needed that much VSA? Daaaum. But that's a crazy frequency! The Impact is amazing - right?


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KixNGrins*
> 
> I have a question or two on HCI MemTest (free version). Using the example given in the OP that for 8G you need 4 instances of MemTest running and set to 1750G each, one for each thread. How do I tell how many threads I have? Running x264, I enter 16 threads because that seemed to be what the instructions said. Does this mean I need to have 16 instances of Memtest running at 1750?
> 
> Sorry if this is a basic question...


That's correct, you'll need to run an instance of Memtest for every thread you have, and try to split your remaining/free memory evenly between the amount of threads you have.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KixNGrins*
> 
> I have a question or two on HCI MemTest (free version). Using the example given in the OP that for 8G you need 4 instances of MemTest running and set to 1750G each, one for each thread. How do I tell how many threads I have? Running x264, I enter 16 threads because that seemed to be what the instructions said. Does this mean I need to have 16 instances of Memtest running at 1750?
> 
> Sorry if this is a basic question...


I've never questioned why x264 your supposed to set 16 myself but with hci memtest you need one instance per thread. So if your running a 6700k 4c/8t then you need 8 instances. 6600k 4c/4t then you need 4 instances. 5820k 6c/12t then you need 12.

I use 16gb and with Windows 10 and my background apps etc i find 1650mb X 8 thread to be my ideal setup.

Hope that helps.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Depending on the application / benchmark there is likely a penalty, hence there really being little point pushing things this far. 3400-3600 is a good place to be on this platform.


which platform ?

I'm currently pretty stable with my Ripjaws V @ 3580mz with my 6600k, wonder if there would be any real world benefits in going further, will have to do some testing

Edit : Oh you meant X99, I thought the X99 were limited to 2400mhz or something for some reason (maybe that's the max advertised speed for mobos ..)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> which platform ?
> 
> I'm currently pretty stable with my Ripjaws V @ 3580mz with my 6600k, wonder if there would be any real world benefits in going further, will have to do some testing
> 
> Edit : Oh you meant X99, I thought the X99 were limited to 2400mhz or something for some reason (maybe that's the max advertised speed for mobos ..)


If you look at the results he was replying to you'd see it's Z170 so not sure how you came to the conclusion I was talking about X99


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> oh for sure. 1.35V VSA up there./ It REALLY needed that much VSA? Daaaum. But that's a crazy frequency! The Impact is amazing - right?


Will play more with these speeds and see if it can be lowered. Would also be good to stabilise cache a little higher, but things get tricky up that high. You should purchase some 4200+ memory and see how far you can go







. This 3866 kit is fairly spent in terms of HCI stability past 4000


----------



## KixNGrins

Thanks for the replies, Yuhfhrh and llantant. Yes it helps.

I've only built one PC prior to this one, but this is my first time learning how to OC. Sometimes, it feels like taking a drink from a fire hose with all the new info to learn.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KixNGrins*
> 
> Thanks for the replies, Yuhfhrh and llantant. Yes it helps.
> 
> I've only built one PC prior to this one, but this is my first time learning how to OC. Sometimes, it feels like taking a drink from a fire hose with all the new info to learn.


There's always new things to learn and a variety of people with various degrees of knowledge on here who are willing to help. Take it slow and post your findings. Have fun.









**


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KixNGrins*
> 
> I have a question or two on HCI MemTest (free version). Using the example given in the OP that for 8G you need 4 instances of MemTest running and set to 1750G each, one for each thread. How do I tell how many threads I have? Running x264, I enter 16 threads because that seemed to be what the instructions said. Does this mean I need to have 16 instances of Memtest running at 1750?
> 
> Sorry if this is a basic question...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KixNGrins*
> 
> Thanks for the replies, Yuhfhrh and llantant. Yes it helps.
> 
> I've only built one PC prior to this one, but this is my first time learning how to OC. Sometimes, it feels like taking a drink from a fire hose with all the new info to learn.


to your first question, if it was not clear, you hgave a 6700K = 8 threads. So divide 80-90% of installed ram equally between all 8 instances of HCI Memtest.


----------



## KixNGrins

Thanks Jpmboy.

Is there a limitation on how much a single instance of MemTest can test? I can't seem to go any higher than 2245M per instance. I checked Task Manager to see how much memory is free and it's about 27.3G with IE11 open. So dividing 27G by 8 yields 3375M per instance. Is it just a matter of opening 4 more instances of MemTest (2245 x 12 = 26940), or does it have to be 1 instance per thread?

Or, am I having another "senior moment"?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KixNGrins*
> 
> Thanks Jpmboy.
> 
> Is there a limitation on how much a single instance of MemTest can test? I can't seem to go any higher than 2245M per instance. I checked Task Manager to see how much memory is free and it's about 27.3G with IE11 open. So dividing 27G by 8 yields 3375M per instance. Is it just a matter of opening 4 more instances of MemTest (2245 x 12 = 26940), or does it have to be 1 instance per thread?
> 
> Or, am I having another "senior moment"?


nah - no senior moment. Yes, with a 6700K, use 8 instances of HCi. HCI will warn that the allocation exceeds the amount allowed by windows. Just cancel the warnings (one per instance). If you have the pro version ($5) we have a batch file to spawn and load ram. easy to edit per your needs.


----------



## KixNGrins

Thanks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> nah - no senior moment. Yes, with a 6700K, use 8 instances of HCi. HCI will warn that the allocation exceeds the amount allowed by windows. Just cancel the warnings (one per instance). If you have the pro version ($5) we have a batch file to spawn and load ram. easy to edit per your needs.


Hmmm.... I get the warning, but regardless whether I X out of the warning or hit the OK button, it won't run. I've tried multiple times on each instance. Status bars on HCI reads "Could not allocate 3375 MB".

I think I'll just pony up the $5 and try that route. Thanks again for the reply!


----------



## error-id10t

I think the Pro version has had a new version but I can't figure out if I can update to it or not, from what I see no?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KixNGrins*
> 
> Thanks
> Hmmm.... I get the warning, but regardless whether I X out of the warning or hit the OK button, it won't run. I've tried multiple times on each instance. Status bars on HCI reads "Could not allocate 3375 MB".
> 
> I think I'll just pony up the $5 and try that route. Thanks again for the reply!


not x. Is there a "Cancel" button?

if you get the rpo, most anyone on this thread has a basic bat file you can edit.









gimme a few min. I can grab a screenine of HCI w/ 32GB on a 6700K.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> I think the Pro version has had a new version but I can't figure out if I can update to it or not, from what I see no?


I haven't looked. New version eh?


----------



## KixNGrins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> not x. Is there a "Cancel" button?
> 
> if you get the rpo, most anyone on this thread has a basic bat file you can edit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gimme a few min. I can grab a screenine of HCI w/ 32GB on a 6700K.


Yea... With this free version, there is no Cancel button, just X and OK. I downloaded using the link provided in the OP.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I haven't looked. New version eh?


I see it mention version 4.5 but my version when I look is 4.1.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> I see it mention version 4.5 but my version when I look is 4.1.


I just DL'ed it... will try it out later.


----------



## KixNGrins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> nah - no senior moment. Yes, with a 6700K, use 8 instances of HCi. HCI will warn that the allocation exceeds the amount allowed by windows. Just cancel the warnings (one per instance). If you have the pro version ($5) we have a batch file to spawn and load ram. easy to edit per your needs.


I went ahead and upgraded to pro. It's kind of strange. With the free version, I seemed to be limited to 2245MB per instance. With Pro, I get an alert that states "This copy of MemTest has allocated all of the RAM Windows will allow it: 3052MB". If I press okay, it spawns 9 more instances. If I press Cancel to manually set to 3375MB (in order to have 1 instance per thread), I get the same alert but it states the max Windows will allow is 2663MB.

You mentioned something about a batch file. Is there a place I can download it from?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Will play more with these speeds and see if it can be lowered. Would also be good to stabilise cache a little higher, but things get tricky up that high. You should purchase some 4200+ memory and see how far you can go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . This 3866 kit is fairly spent in terms of HCI stability past 4000


enter that ram OC *here*!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> enter that ram OC *here*!


No point with the latency posted, I'll submit a couple at 3866 and 4000 though


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> No point with the latency posted, I'll submit a couple at 3866 and 4000 though


let the benchmark calc latency - it's not simply CL. Frequency... it's frequency mon.


----------



## Kimir

I'll try that bench if I've got a moment.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> I'll try that bench if I've got a moment.


you could actually do the stage 3 *HERE*! needs 64GB ram.









(beware - it is a tough AVX-based calc)

here's a good realbench comp too: http://oc-esports.io/#!/round/rog_realbench_beta


----------



## Jpmboy

I might have a 64GB entry this weekend...









new family member keeping us busy:



and ugh.. I never should have sold my OG Titans... had to break out an old Tesla for needed DP calcs. Fermi HOT!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I might have a 64GB entry this weekend...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new family member keeping us busy:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and ugh.. I never should have sold my OG Titans... had to break out an old Tesla for needed DP calcs. Fermi HOT!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Cute!

64GB HCI? Sorry we don't take Stress App 64GB entries...


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I might have a 64GB entry this weekend...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new family member keeping us busy:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and ugh.. I never should have sold my OG Titans... had to break out an old Tesla for needed DP calcs. Fermi HOT!


Cute indeed! You're going to spoil him (her?). Have you stress-tested yet?


----------



## djgar

Whoa! My post got convoluted by I think another user's post! I got a draft failed message after I posted. Hmmm ....


----------



## djgar

Hmm, now I think that was an old draft I had from days!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Cute!
> 
> 64GB HCI? Sorry we don't take Stress App 64GB entries...


HCI? okay, so I might have stability results in 2019.









yeah - he's a riot! We now have 2 Corgis.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Cute indeed! You're going to spoil him (her?). Have you stress-tested yet?


The puppy is stress testing me, and the wife - every night somewhere between 2 and 5AM.


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> The puppy is stress testing me, and the wife - every night somewhere between 2 and 5AM.


lol


----------



## Jpmboy

looks promising! same timings and voltages as my 4x8GB TZ kit. ... now to find that mint drive, otherwise I might not out live testing with HCI.


----------



## djgar

Nice timings! What's the eventual vdimm?


----------



## Praz

Hello

A couple of these kits will probably be my next purchase.

http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-ddr4-3600mhz-cl15-15-15-16gb-8gbx2--low-latency-memory-kit


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> A couple of these kits will probably be my next purchase.
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-ddr4-3600mhz-cl15-15-15-16gb-8gbx2--low-latency-memory-kit


oh! those look nice!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Nice timings! What's the eventual vdimm?


1.4V same as the 32GB kit.


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.1 --- 64GB GS TZ [email protected] -- vsa 1.00, VDIMM 1.4 (train at 1.425) --- 1h GSAT


----------



## Silent Scone

That's impressive! Must have a fairy good IMC there.

(FYI will update the chart next week)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's impressive! Must have a fairy good IMC there.
> 
> (FYI will update the chart next week)


yeah it was fairly plug and play. same exact settings as for 32GB of the same TZs. So now.. I have an 8x4GB GS kit I should probably sell.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah it was fairly plug and play. same exact settings as for 32GB of the same TZs. So now.. I have an 8x4GB GS kit I should probably sell.


Someone will have it! Personally I have no need for that much memory


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Someone will have it! Personally I have no need for that much memory


Need? Lol - that was funny.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Need? Lol - that was funny.


Normally one could argue that the sacrifice in latency and speed is not worth it, but in your case that is an exception! I am a little tempted to see it if it's possible to repo that on mine, but refresh is coming soon.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Normally one could argue that the sacrifice in latency and speed is not worth it, but in your case that is an exception! I am a little tempted to see it if it's possible to repo that on mine, but refresh is coming soon.


i think it puts this x99 rig in final form ... exception being a 10 core. Gonna wait for full die pascal before jumping.


----------



## Chino1

[email protected]/3.1 Rampage V Extreme---HyperX Savage DDR4-2666 128GB (8x16GB) @ 2800MHz-C15-16-16-35-2T----1.35v---VCCIN 1.90v--SA 0.950v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Chino1

[email protected]/4.1 Maximus VIII Extreme---HyperX Savage DDR4-2666 64GB (4x16GB) @ 3200MHz-C15-16-16-35-2T----1.35v---SA Auto & IO Auto---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chino1*
> 
> [email protected]/3.1 Rampage V Extreme---HyperX Savage DDR4-2666 128GB (8x16GB) @ 2800MHz-C15-16-16-35-2T----1.35v---VCCIN 1.90v--SA 0.950v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


that's very cool. 128GB ram OC.


----------



## L36

Question, how far in mhz you can go on X99 before encountering issues? Looking at upgrading to 32GB and not sure how far I should go in terms of speed. Seeing how most people run 3200mhz, is that the maxing out point for X99?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L36*
> 
> Question, how far in mhz you can go on X99 before encountering issues? Looking at upgrading to 32GB and not sure how far I should go in terms of speed. Seeing how most people run 3200mhz, is that the maxing out point for X99?


it's a good divider and a sweetspot. 2666c12 is also very high performing @ 32GB.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it's a good divider and a sweetspot. 2666c12 is also very high performing @ 32GB.


2666MHz is wonderful, strap 100 and adaptive voltage.









Pretty foolproof, get the VCCSA right and you're set.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

I wonder what the quality of this DDR4 overclock is. I am pretty sure I have overlooked and miscalculated some important numbers, though, as I had based this off an existing XMP profile of a more expensive equivalent DIMM.

XMP: 2400MHz CL14-16-16-31-2T @1.2V
OC: 2400MHz CL13-13-13-35-2T @1.2V

I plan to tighten this further to CL12-14-14-32-2T @1.2V, just to have a nice number for throughput speed. And yes, CL13 has passed memtest86 without issue.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> I wonder what the quality of this DDR4 overclock is. I am pretty sure I have overlooked and miscalculated some important numbers, though, as I had based this off an existing XMP profile of a more expensive equivalent DIMM.
> 
> XMP: 2400MHz CL14-16-16-31-2T @1.2V
> OC: 2400MHz CL13-13-13-35-2T @1.2V
> 
> I plan to tighten this further to CL12-14-14-32-2T @1.2V, just to have a nice number for throughput speed. And yes, CL13 has passed memtest86 without issue.


memtest86 really tells you nothing beyond whether a stick is broken. Use HCi Memtest in windows to test stability of ram. see post #1.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's very cool. 128GB ram OC.


First 128gb result too, even at 2T that is very respectable!


----------



## HeadlessKnight

This this my first attempt at tightening memory timings. I am still compeletly noob at it.
Any suggestions? I tried to tighten CL, tRCD & tRP and at values lower than those I cannot get the system to boot. I am running the RAM @ 1.4V BTW
Also for some reason the program shows my RAM @ 2400 MHz while in fact they are running @ 3000 MHz.



Thanks in advance


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> This this my first attempt at tightening memory timings. I am still compeletly noob at it.
> Any suggestions? I tried to tighten CL, tRCD & tRP and at values lower than those I cannot get the system to boot. I am running the RAM @ 1.4V BTW
> Also for some reason the program shows my RAM @ 2400 MHz while in fact they are running @ 3000 MHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


the asrock tool won't read 3000 on my board either. Just ignore that. as far as timings... it takes patience... or bios presets.


----------



## Silent Scone

Personally I wish people would stick to the ASUS one unless using Asrock. It's just easier to read I think


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Personally I wish people would stick to the ASUS one unless using Asrock. It's just easier to read I think


What is Asus tool called?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> What is Asus tool called?


memtweak it.

MemTweakIt_Win7-8-81-10_V20216.zip 5046k .zip file


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> memtweak it.
> 
> MemTweakIt_Win7-8-81-10_V20216.zip 5046k .zip file


Thanks. Will give this tool a try


----------



## error-id10t

There's a minor update to that version which I've been using, this is from HERO VIII page.

dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/misc/utils/MemTweakIt_Win7-81-10_V20222.zip


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Forgive my ignorance, but I am wondering why there is no mention of 2666MHz at CL14. Is it even possible at stock voltage?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, but I am wondering why there is no mention of 2666MHz at CL14. Is it even possible at stock voltage?


2666c14? why not?


----------



## emexci

got my corsair ddr4 2133 cl13-15-15-28 today. i will try overclock it tomorrow. memory overclocking makes more fun since you dont mess with much voltage settings in bios.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emexci*
> 
> got my corsair ddr4 2133 cl13-15-15-28 today. i will try overclock it tomorrow. memory overclocking makes more fun since you dont mess with much voltage settings in bios.


What? You don't think that messing with a lot of voltage is fun? That's half the fun!


----------



## Silent Scone

Results added








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> A couple of these kits will probably be my next purchase.
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-ddr4-3600mhz-cl15-15-15-16gb-8gbx2--low-latency-memory-kit


Was just about to post these till I remembered you linked them last week. Thinking about picking up a set for the Impact


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Has anybody here ranked the DDR4 frequency/latency combinations by throughput speed? I would like to provide such a list, but I suspect that it may be redundant.


----------



## tux1989

What do you guys thinks about this kit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231803
is it good for OC ? Maybe 3200 cl14 ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tux1989*
> 
> What do you guys thinks about this kit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231803
> is it good for OC ? Maybe 3200 cl14 ?


I doubt you will see that kind of latency on that kit, voltage dependant. They're much older than the B die 3200C14 Trident kit. If you want that kind of latency, buy the C14 kit. Although as with all memory kits that do not have a QVL listing for the platform/board you are using there is no telling whether they will work out of the box for you.

The Ripjaw kit isn't a bad kit by any means, even out of the box. Should be able to get a respectable CAS15, but it varies


----------



## tux1989

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I doubt you will see that kind of latency on that kit, voltage dependant. They're much older than the B die 3200C14 Trident kit. If you want that kind of latency, buy the C14 kit. Although as with all memory kits that do not have a QVL listing for the platform/board you are using there is no telling whether they will work out of the box for you.
> 
> The Ripjaw kit isn't a bad kit by any means, even out of the box. Should be able to get a respectable CAS15, but it varies


Thanks.Can you link me some cl14 B die kit ?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tux1989*
> 
> Thanks.Can you link me some cl14 B die kit ?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=f4-3200c14q&N=-1&isNodeId=1


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tux1989*
> 
> What do you guys thinks about this kit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231803
> is it good for OC ? Maybe 3200 cl14 ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I doubt you will see that kind of latency on that kit, voltage dependant. They're much older than the B die 3200C14 Trident kit. If you want that kind of latency, buy the C14 kit. Although as with all memory kits that do not have a QVL listing for the platform/board you are using there is no telling whether they will work out of the box for you.
> 
> The Ripjaw kit isn't a bad kit by any means, even out of the box. Should be able to get a respectable CAS15, but it varies


I think it will depend a lot on your IMC. I haven't been able to get 14-14-14-XX-1T even with a 14-14-14 spec'd kit. Hopefully you'll be luckier.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Has anybody here ranked the DDR4 frequency/latency combinations by throughput speed? I would like to provide such a list, but I suspect that it may be redundant.


it would not be redundant.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Has anybody here ranked the DDR4 frequency/latency combinations by throughput speed? I would like to provide such a list, but I suspect that it may be redundant.


Hello

I'm thinking some sets for Broadwell-E.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Alright, I put down a list of freq/CAS combos, sorted by best to worst throughput. If you are looking to get the fastest DDR4 memory you can buy, or you want to play around with manual overclocking, look up the index numbers of this list. (lower index number = better theoretical speed).

Please keep in mind that the first list is simply for those intent of staying within the safe voltage bracket (1.2V - 1.35V). For those interested in pushing to 1.5V and beyond, there is another list below, but I will warn you; that list is rather large and convoluted.



Spoiler: DDR4 DIMM Ranking - safe (1.2V - 1.35V)




3200MHz CL12
3000MHz CL12
3200MHz CL13
2800MHz CL12
3000MHz CL13
3200MHz CL14
2666MHz CL12
2800MHz CL13
3000MHz CL14
3200MHz CL15
2666MHz CL13
2400MHz CL12
2800MHz CL14
3000MHz CL15
3200MHz CL16
2666MHz CL14
3000MHz CL16
3200MHz CL17
2800MHz CL15
2400MHz CL13
2133MHz CL12
2666MHz CL15
3000MHz CL17
2800MHz CL16
2400MHz CL14
2666MHz CL16
2800MHz CL17
2133MHz CL13
2400MHz CL15
2666MHz CL17
2133MHz CL14
2400MHz CL16
2133MHz CL15 - JEDEC standard
2400MHz CL17
2133MHz CL16
2133MHz CL17






Spoiler: DDR4 DIMM Ranking - ballsy (past 1.35V)




4266MHz CL10
4200MHz CL10
4133MHz CL10
4000MHz CL10
4266MHz CL11
3866MHz CL10
4200MHz CL11
4133MHz CL11
3733MHz CL10
4000MHz CL11
3600MHz CL10
4266MHz CL12
3866MHz CL11
4200MHz CL12
3466MHz CL10
4133MHz CL12
3400MHz CL10
3733MHz CL11
3333MHz CL10
4000MHz CL12
3300MHz CL10
4266MHz CL13
3600MHz CL11
4200MHz CL13
3866MHz CL12
3200MHz CL10
4133MHz CL13
3466MHz CL11
3733MHz CL12
3400MHz CL11
4000MHz CL13
4266MHz CL14
3333MHz CL11
3000MHz CL10
3300MHz CL11
3600MHz CL12
4200MHz CL14
3866MHz CL13
4133MHz CL14
3200MHz CL11
3466MHz CL12
3733MHz CL13
4000MHz CL14
4266MHz CL15
3400MHz CL12
2800MHz CL10
4200MHz CL15
3333MHz CL12
3600MHz CL13
3866MHz CL14
4133MHz CL15
3300MHz CL12
3000MHz CL11
2666MHz CL10
3200MHz CL12
3466MHz CL13
3733MHz CL14
4000MHz CL15
4266MHz CL16
4200MHz CL16
3400MHz CL13
3866MHz CL15
4133MHz CL16
3600MHz CL14
3333MHz CL13
2800MHz CL11
3300MHz CL13
4266MHz CL17
3000MHz CL12
4000MHz CL16
3733MHz CL15
3466MHz CL14
4200MHz CL17
3200MHz CL13
3400MHz CL14
4133MHz CL17
2666MHz CL11
3866MHz CL16
2400MHz CL10
3600MHz CL15
3333MHz CL14
4266MHz CL18
3300MHz CL14
4000MHz CL17
2800MHz CL12
3733MHz CL16
4200MHz CL18
3000MHz CL13
3466MHz CL15
4133MHz CL18
3200MHz CL14
3400MHz CL15
3866MHz CL17
3600MHz CL16
4266MHz CL19
2666MHz CL12
3333MHz CL15
4000MHz CL18
4200MHz CL19
3300MHz CL15
3733MHz CL17
2400MHz CL11
4133MHz CL19
3466MHz CL16
2800MHz CL13
3866MHz CL18
3000MHz CL14
2133MHz CL10
3200MHz CL15
3400MHz CL16
4266MHz CL20
3600MHz CL17
4000MHz CL19
4200MHz CL20
3333MHz CL16
3733MHz CL18
4133MHz CL20
3300MHz CL16
2666MHz CL13
3466MHz CL17
3866MHz CL19
2400MHz CL12
2800MHz CL14
3000MHz CL15
3200MHz CL16
3400MHz CL17
3600MHz CL18
4000MHz CL20
3333MHz CL17
3733MHz CL19
2133MHz CL11
3300MHz CL17
3466MHz CL18
3866MHz CL20
2666MHz CL14
3400MHz CL18
3600MHz CL19
3000MHz CL16
3200MHz CL17
2800MHz CL15
3733MHz CL20
2400MHz CL13
3333MHz CL18
3300MHz CL18
3466MHz CL19
3600MHz CL20
3400MHz CL19
2133MHz CL12
2666MHz CL15
3200MHz CL18
3000MHz CL17
2800MHz CL16
3333MHz CL19
3300MHz CL19
3466MHz CL20
2400MHz CL14
3400MHz CL20
3200MHz CL19
2666MHz CL16
3000MHz CL18
3333MHz CL20
2800MHz CL17
3300MHz CL20
2133MHz CL13
2400MHz CL15
3200MHz CL20
3000MHz CL19
2666MHz CL17
2800MHz CL18
2133MHz CL14
2400MHz CL16
3000MHz CL20
2666MHz CL18
2800MHz CL19
2133MHz CL15 - JEDEC Standard
2400MHz CL17
2666MHz CL19
2800MHz CL20
2133MHz CL16
2400MHz CL18
2666MHz CL20
2400MHz CL19
2133MHz CL17
2400MHz CL20
2133MHz CL18
2133MHz CL19
2133MHz CL20


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Alright, I put down a list of freq/CAS combos, sorted by best to worst throughput. If you are looking to get the fastest DDR4 memory you can buy, or you want to play around with manual overclocking, look up the index numbers of this list. (lower index number = better theoretical speed).
> 
> Please keep in mind that the first list is simply for those intent of staying within the safe voltage bracket (1.2V - 1.35V). For those interested in pushing to 1.5V and beyond, there is another list below, but I will warn you; that list is rather large and convoluted.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DDR4 DIMM Ranking - safe (1.2V - 1.35V)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3200MHz CL12
> 3000MHz CL12
> 3200MHz CL13
> 2800MHz CL12
> 3000MHz CL13
> 3200MHz CL14
> 2666MHz CL12
> 2800MHz CL13
> 3000MHz CL14
> 3200MHz CL15
> 2666MHz CL13
> 2400MHz CL12
> 2800MHz CL14
> 3000MHz CL15
> 3200MHz CL16
> 2666MHz CL14
> 3000MHz CL16
> 3200MHz CL17
> 2800MHz CL15
> 2400MHz CL13
> 2133MHz CL12
> 2666MHz CL15
> 3000MHz CL17
> 2800MHz CL16
> 2400MHz CL14
> 2666MHz CL16
> 2800MHz CL17
> 2133MHz CL13
> 2400MHz CL15
> 2666MHz CL17
> 2133MHz CL14
> 2400MHz CL16
> 2133MHz CL15 - JEDEC standard
> 2400MHz CL17
> 2133MHz CL16
> 2133MHz CL17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DDR4 DIMM Ranking - ballsy (past 1.35V)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4266MHz CL10
> 4200MHz CL10
> 4133MHz CL10
> 4000MHz CL10
> 4266MHz CL11
> 3866MHz CL10
> 4200MHz CL11
> 4133MHz CL11
> 3733MHz CL10
> 4000MHz CL11
> 3600MHz CL10
> 4266MHz CL12
> 3866MHz CL11
> 4200MHz CL12
> 3466MHz CL10
> 4133MHz CL12
> 3400MHz CL10
> 3733MHz CL11
> 3333MHz CL10
> 4000MHz CL12
> 3300MHz CL10
> 4266MHz CL13
> 3600MHz CL11
> 4200MHz CL13
> 3866MHz CL12
> 3200MHz CL10
> 4133MHz CL13
> 3466MHz CL11
> 3733MHz CL12
> 3400MHz CL11
> 4000MHz CL13
> 4266MHz CL14
> 3333MHz CL11
> 3000MHz CL10
> 3300MHz CL11
> 3600MHz CL12
> 4200MHz CL14
> 3866MHz CL13
> 4133MHz CL14
> 3200MHz CL11
> 3466MHz CL12
> 3733MHz CL13
> 4000MHz CL14
> 4266MHz CL15
> 3400MHz CL12
> 2800MHz CL10
> 4200MHz CL15
> 3333MHz CL12
> 3600MHz CL13
> 3866MHz CL14
> 4133MHz CL15
> 3300MHz CL12
> 3000MHz CL11
> 2666MHz CL10
> 3200MHz CL12
> 3466MHz CL13
> 3733MHz CL14
> 4000MHz CL15
> 4266MHz CL16
> 4200MHz CL16
> 3400MHz CL13
> 3866MHz CL15
> 4133MHz CL16
> 3600MHz CL14
> 3333MHz CL13
> 2800MHz CL11
> 3300MHz CL13
> 4266MHz CL17
> 3000MHz CL12
> 4000MHz CL16
> 3733MHz CL15
> 3466MHz CL14
> 4200MHz CL17
> 3200MHz CL13
> 3400MHz CL14
> 4133MHz CL17
> 2666MHz CL11
> 3866MHz CL16
> 2400MHz CL10
> 3600MHz CL15
> 3333MHz CL14
> 4266MHz CL18
> 3300MHz CL14
> 4000MHz CL17
> 2800MHz CL12
> 3733MHz CL16
> 4200MHz CL18
> 3000MHz CL13
> 3466MHz CL15
> 4133MHz CL18
> 3200MHz CL14
> 3400MHz CL15
> 3866MHz CL17
> 3600MHz CL16
> 4266MHz CL19
> 2666MHz CL12
> 3333MHz CL15
> 4000MHz CL18
> 4200MHz CL19
> 3300MHz CL15
> 3733MHz CL17
> 2400MHz CL11
> 4133MHz CL19
> 3466MHz CL16
> 2800MHz CL13
> 3866MHz CL18
> 3000MHz CL14
> 2133MHz CL10
> 3200MHz CL15
> 3400MHz CL16
> 4266MHz CL20
> 3600MHz CL17
> 4000MHz CL19
> 4200MHz CL20
> 3333MHz CL16
> 3733MHz CL18
> 4133MHz CL20
> 3300MHz CL16
> 2666MHz CL13
> 3466MHz CL17
> 3866MHz CL19
> 2400MHz CL12
> 2800MHz CL14
> 3000MHz CL15
> 3200MHz CL16
> 3400MHz CL17
> 3600MHz CL18
> 4000MHz CL20
> 3333MHz CL17
> 3733MHz CL19
> 2133MHz CL11
> 3300MHz CL17
> 3466MHz CL18
> 3866MHz CL20
> 2666MHz CL14
> 3400MHz CL18
> 3600MHz CL19
> 3000MHz CL16
> 3200MHz CL17
> 2800MHz CL15
> 3733MHz CL20
> 2400MHz CL13
> 3333MHz CL18
> 3300MHz CL18
> 3466MHz CL19
> 3600MHz CL20
> 3400MHz CL19
> 2133MHz CL12
> 2666MHz CL15
> 3200MHz CL18
> 3000MHz CL17
> 2800MHz CL16
> 3333MHz CL19
> 3300MHz CL19
> 3466MHz CL20
> 2400MHz CL14
> 3400MHz CL20
> 3200MHz CL19
> 2666MHz CL16
> 3000MHz CL18
> 3333MHz CL20
> 2800MHz CL17
> 3300MHz CL20
> 2133MHz CL13
> 2400MHz CL15
> 3200MHz CL20
> 3000MHz CL19
> 2666MHz CL17
> 2800MHz CL18
> 2133MHz CL14
> 2400MHz CL16
> 3000MHz CL20
> 2666MHz CL18
> 2800MHz CL19
> 2133MHz CL15 - JEDEC Standard
> 2400MHz CL17
> 2666MHz CL19
> 2800MHz CL20
> 2133MHz CL16
> 2400MHz CL18
> 2666MHz CL20
> 2400MHz CL19
> 2133MHz CL17
> 2400MHz CL20
> 2133MHz CL18
> 2133MHz CL19
> 2133MHz CL20


show the method for ranking. otherwise it's just a list of numbers with no basis for confidence.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> show the method for ranking. otherwise it's just a list of numbers with no basis for confidence.


That is rather simple; you look at the dividend between the latency - how long it takes to receive and submit a command from the CPU, and the frequency - the amount of commands it can handle in one interval (in this case a second).

Here is an example: let us look at the JEDEC standard for DDR4; 2133MHz CL15

you can divide the freq with the CAS, and that will give you a figurative score. In this instance, the higher score means the theoretical speed is faster.
2133 / 15 = 142.2

But you can also divide the CAS by the freq, giving us the throughput speed of how long each command takes. In this instance, the lower number means the theoretical speed is faster.
15 / 2133 = 0.00703

If you want to make it easier on yourself, you can then multiply the latter calculation by a hundred thousand (10^5). Just make sure you do not confuse the number with the former "score" calculation.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> That is rather simple


Hello

Quite too simplistic really. Any meaningful data in this type of table would take weeks of testing if not longer.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Quite too simplistic really. Any meaningful data in this type of table would take weeks of testing if not longer.


^^ this.

yeah, there's a dozen excel sheets that calc theoretical ram performance... nothing like actual data.









old and not exactly accurate:


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ this.
> 
> yeah, there's a dozen excel sheets that calc theoretical ram performance... nothing like actual data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> old and not exactly accurate:


It would be nice to have an AIDA64 benchmark compilation of memory performance at different frequencies and timings. I just don't have the time.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> It would be nice to have an AIDA64 benchmark compilation of memory performance at different frequencies and timings. I just don't have the time.


thing is.. enough folks have different memory and timing setups... IDK, maybe an AID64 memory benchmark thread? set the core a cache ceiling for entries. thing is... really can;t compare across CPUs, but maybe after a bunch of subs, the data will emerge.


----------



## Jpmboy

if this passes GSAT after seeing if I can shave a few mV off VDIMM, this may be a new 24/7 for this 64GB kit. Daaum snappy.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if this passes GSAT after seeing if I can shave a few mV off VDIMM, this may be a new 24/7 for this 64GB kit. Daaum snappy.


That is more than impressive. I still don't know what I'm doing with regards to secondary and further timings, but I'm tinkering around and things are getting much better. Nowhere near the kinda stuff you're pulling off with that 64GB set, but it is improving.


----------



## CL3P20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Has anybody here ranked the DDR4 frequency/latency combinations by throughput speed? I would like to provide such a list, but I suspect that it may be redundant.


This would be difficult for X99 as most of what you refer to measuring is generated from Uncore speed and not memory frequency or timings. Now if you were concerned with ranking bandwidth or latency for a given type of RAM IC.. that you should be able to find/compare equally with both platforms...

*w/ quad channel on x99 the bandwidth is much higher compared directly to SKL/Z170..and latency is near completely dependent on Uncore, so unless you can push +5Ghz for Uncore your not likely to be able to tighten the latency to be able to match Z170/SKL

*w/ dual channel Z170 it may be easier to hit a latency limit on the same RAM, as you likely wont be able to match the bandwidth that X99 would push through the same sticks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> That is more than impressive. I still don't know what I'm doing with regards to secondary and further timings, but I'm tinkering around and things are getting much better. Nowhere near the kinda stuff you're pulling off with that 64GB set, but it is improving.


gotta find my linux SSD to test stability properly. whether it's worth the extra 55mV on 8 sticks is a question:
c13


----------



## Kimir

Do you even NEED 1.4v for c13 tho?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if this passes GSAT after seeing if I can shave a few mV off VDIMM, this may be a new 24/7 for this 64GB kit. Daaum snappy.


You're just showing off now


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Do you even NEED 1.4v for c13 tho?


oh yeah...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You're just showing off now


... c12 not stable at 1.45V and IDK, running 8 sticks at much higher gets into diminishing returns... will stick with c13.









lol - me? the hardware does it, I just try not to screw them up.


----------



## Silent Scone

lol, at 64GB I would be very happy with CAS13 3200 whilst being Stress App stable. That's one hell of a setup to have.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Speaking of actual values, which of the following do you think is the most practical, for the lowest voltage requirement; 2400MHz CL12, 2800MHz CL14, 3000MHz CL15, or 3200MHz CL16?


----------



## Kimir

2666 CL13?


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> 2666 CL13?


I have excluded it as it is a mathematical anomaly. Whereas the others score 200 on theoretical performance, 2666MHz CL13 scores a 205. Not much of a difference on it's own, but it certainly means something.


----------



## CL3P20

how are you comparing such abstract data?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> show the method for ranking. otherwise it's just a list of numbers with no basis for confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is rather simple; you look at the dividend between the latency - how long it takes to receive and submit a command from the CPU, and the frequency - the amount of commands it can handle in one interval (in this case a second).
> 
> Here is an example: let us look at the JEDEC standard for DDR4; 2133MHz CL15
> 
> you can divide the freq with the CAS, and that will give you a figurative score. In this instance, the higher score means the theoretical speed is faster.
> 2133 / 15 = 142.2
> 
> But you can also divide the CAS by the freq, giving us the throughput speed of how long each command takes. In this instance, the lower number means the theoretical speed is faster.
> 15 / 2133 = 0.00703
> 
> If you want to make it easier on yourself, you can then multiply the latter calculation by a hundred thousand (10^5). Just make sure you do not confuse the number with the former "score" calculation.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

& how could this account for actual bandwidth?

ie -

1# same freq/timings but move RTL from 45 to 49?

or

2# increase uncore from 4ghz to 4.5ghz?

..both of the above drastically affect IMC bandwidth & latency..so much that you typically have to adjust CL (& or tWCL) of memory to get stable at same voltages again.


----------



## Kimir

I had some time to waste, decided to see what I could do with bclk (I don't want to change to full manual and strap 125/167 tho),
got 3270Mhz stable with 1.39v (3200Mhz being stable at 1.38 w/ same timings)


Spoiler: 3270







3300Mhz 1.42v, didn't even try lower


Spoiler: 3300


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> I had some time to waste, decided to see what I could do with bclk (I don't want to change to full manual and strap 125/167 tho),
> got 3270Mhz stable with 1.39v (3200Mhz being stable at 1.38 w/ same timings)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 3270
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3300Mhz 1.42v, didn't even try lower
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 3300


wow! 3300 on 32GB? very kool. One problem tho, your aid64 memtest panel is blocking the picture.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> wow! 3300 on 32GB? very kool. One problem tho, your aid64 memtest panel is blocking the picture.


I know right, that's why usually just leave that bench table powered on on the desktop doing nothing while the other PC is used for everything.








If only I could do something about that damn timing...
I tried 3400 too, but no luck, I had the channel B dropping every time, and that's the one with my best stick on it, even with 1.48v.

On a non-stability matter, that's what you can do with 4000c12 capable kit on x99, 3300c11 look sweet:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

So unfortunately, 2666CL14 was not stable under 1.2V, as it was corrupting game-data (but not savedata, for some reason). It had also failed memtest at 14.7%. I have reverted to 2400CL13 (13.13.13.35.2T), which is going strong at memtest 112% and counting.


----------



## Kimir

Why trying to stay at 1.2v?


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Why trying to stay at 1.2v?


I am not yet comfortable with cranking up to 1.35V. I need to make sure that it does not take a toll on the DIMMs the same way it does the CPU. While it is not a singular chunk of transistors, they are still present.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> I am not yet comfortable with cranking up to 1.35V. I need to make sure that it does not take a toll on the DIMMs the same way it does the CPU. While it is not a singular chunk of transistors, they are still present.


That depends on how low nm they are using. Normal DDR4 should go up to 1.5V. Dunno about the rest of the package. I kinda remember how my DDR3 from g.skill didn't boot at 1.35V doesn't matter on speed. If Kingston LoVo would have extensive heatsinks they would be VASTLY superior.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> That depends on how low nm they are using. Normal DDR4 should go up to 1.5V. Dunno about the rest of the package. I kinda remember how my DDR3 from g.skill didn't boot at 1.35V doesn't matter on speed. If Kingston LoVo would have extensive heatsinks they would be VASTLY superior.


My question then will be this: will a 1.35V, or even 1.5V, DDR4 "non-value" DIMM outlast a locked Skylake processor?


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> My question then will be this: will a 1.35V, or even 1.5V, DDR4 "non-value" DIMM outlast a locked Skylake processor?


Outlast in terms of life span or outlast in terms of relevance (performance).
Relevance we cannot predict.

Lifespan should be the same for both, maybe a little less for the RAM. But both components should be able to last for 5 years.


----------



## Qwinn

Great thread. Inspired me to finally Oc my memory, which also enabled me to finally get past 3.8Ghz cache, all the way to 4.2.

My new memory OC is 3000 Mhz 15-15-15-35 CR1 at 1.38v, up from xmp settings of 2666 15-15-15-35-CR2. I suspect I could do better, but my problem is that I cannot seem to find any SA voltage that is more stable than auto 0.880v. The above is the best I can manage with that. I've stepped up in 0.01v increments all the way to 1.05 with no luck. The thing is, though, I've recently noticed that it doesn't seem to apply SA changes properly. I tried a setting which made my system drop a stick. Another setting, still dropped. Went back to known stable settings and STILL dropped. Is it required to cold boot on every change of SA? If so, that may explain my inability to find a stable SA voltage.

Any tips on how I can reduce this drudgery? Some bios setting that will force SA to apply properly on a restart, like enable memory training or something? Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Outlast in terms of life span or outlast in terms of relevance (performance).
> Relevance we cannot predict.
> 
> Lifespan should be the same for both, maybe a little less for the RAM. But both components should be able to last for 5 years.


you're being too PC (strange








). Life span always outlasts relevance in this product space. (barring an electrocution)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Great thread. Inspired me to finally Oc my memory, which also enabled me to finally get past 3.8Ghz cache, all the way to 4.2.
> 
> My new memory OC is 3000 Mhz 15-15-15-35 CR1 at 1.38v, up from xmp settings of 2666 15-15-15-35-CR2. I suspect I could do better, but my problem is that I cannot seem to find any SA voltage that is more stable than auto 0.880v. The above is the best I can manage with that. I've stepped up in 0.01v increments all the way to 1.05 with no luck. The thing is, though, I've recently noticed that it doesn't seem to apply SA changes properly. I tried a setting which made my system drop a stick. Another setting, still dropped. Went back to known stable settings and STILL dropped. Is it required to cold boot on every change of SA? If so, that may explain my inability to find a stable SA voltage.
> 
> Any tips on how I can reduce this drudgery? Some bios setting that will force SA to apply properly on a restart, like enable memory training or something? Thanks in advance for any help.


If a channel is dropped, cold boot is usually necessary. Don;t forget to try a lower SA... more is not always the fix for dram alignment. And booot with a higher training voltage. (like 25mV) then set the eventual dram voltage (bottom of dram timings page) to the voltage you want the kit to run at. so for examplel, on this MB/CPU combo, I usually run 25mV higher training voltage than run mV. Thhis has been helping quite a bit with several 16, two 32 and one 64GB kit.


----------



## Lays

Might spend some time tonight trying to find a 24/7 RAM OC now that I have my new mobo.

Hoping I can get 4000 mhz stable on my 2x8GB TridentZ's, but I don't want to sacrifice timings like mad. Testing 17-19-19-36 2T right now at 1.45v on a Z170M OC Formula with a 6700k. I'd like to get 4000 17-17-17-34 or something like that stable, the kit will do 4085 12-11-11-28 1T with 50/51 RTL and tight second/terts at 2v in Aida64 cache mem bench, so I have high hopes.

Anyone know how long 400% HCI takes on 8 instances? I think at the rate I'm going it'll take 1 hour for 100%, so I'm thinking around 4 hours?


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> If a channel is dropped, cold boot is usually necessary. Don;t forget to try a lower SA... more is not always the fix for dram alignment. And booot with a higher training voltage. (like 25mV) then set the eventual dram voltage (bottom of dram timings page) to the voltage you want the kit to run at. so for examplel, on this MB/CPU combo, I usually run 25mV higher training voltage than run mV. Thhis has been helping quite a bit with several 16, two 32 and one 64GB kit.


Ok, thanks. So unless a stick gets dropped, my previous restarts with SA modified were probably ok? If so, ugh, then i really so have major issues finding a good SA.

Can you please offer some tips on how to go about this? Like, if a given SA is good for one specific OC, will it be good for all OC's? I'm just trying to think of some way that I can rerun a test of all the e possible SA values that doesn't require a several hour stability test to rule each one out.

Oh, and when you suggest a lower SA, you're not suggesting going below the stock 0.880v, right?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Ok, thanks. So unless a stick gets dropped, my previous restarts with SA modified were probably ok? If so, ugh, then i really so have major issues finding a good SA.
> 
> Can you please offer some tips on how to go about this? Like, if a given SA is good for one specific OC, will it be good for all OC's? I'm just trying to think of some way that I can rerun a test of all the e possible SA values that doesn't require a several hour stability test to rule each one out.
> 
> Oh, and when you suggest a lower SA, you're not suggesting going below the stock 0.880v, right?


I've spent dozens of exploratory settings finding a nice vccsa for my setup







.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Might spend some time tonight trying to find a 24/7 RAM OC now that I have my new mobo.
> 
> Hoping I can get 4000 mhz stable on my 2x8GB TridentZ's, but I don't want to sacrifice timings like mad. Testing 17-19-19-36 2T right now at 1.45v on a Z170M OC Formula with a 6700k. I'd like to get 4000 17-17-17-34 or something like that stable, the kit will do 4085 12-11-11-28 1T with 50/51 RTL and tight second/terts at 2v in Aida64 cache mem bench, so I have high hopes.
> 
> Anyone know how long 400% HCI takes on 8 instances? I think at the rate I'm going it'll take 1 hour for 100%, so I'm thinking around 4 hours?


16GB and 8 instances ~ 4-5h depending on the CPU OC. 32GB forget about, just use linux mint and google stressapptest for 1h.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Ok, thanks. So unless a stick gets dropped, my previous restarts with SA modified were probably ok? If so, ugh, then i really so have major issues finding a good SA.
> 
> Can you please offer some tips on how to go about this? Like, if a given SA is good for one specific OC, will it be good for all OC's? I'm just trying to think of some way that I can rerun a test of all the e possible SA values that doesn't require a several hour stability test to rule each one out.
> 
> Oh, and when you suggest a lower SA, you're not suggesting going below the stock 0.880v, right?


on x99 VSA between 0.9 and 1.05V should cover the working range (generally). set like 1.000V VSa and run the ram at a slightly higher mV than rated. 1.375-1.45V on DDR4 has been fine so far. Some say 1.5V is okat too, but for 24/7 my personal ceiling is 1.45V on 8 sticks, 1.475V on 4 x4GB.

try setting dram voltage 25mV higher than eventual. should do the trick for post and stability.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 16GB and 8 instances ~ 4-5h depending on the CPU OC. 32GB forget about, just use linux mint and google stressapptest for 1h.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on x99 VSA between 0.9 and 1.05V should cover the working range (generally). set like 1.000V VSa and run the ram at a slightly higher mV than rated. 1.375-1.45V on DDR4 has been fine so far. Some say 1.5V is okat too, but for 24/7 my personal ceiling is 1.45V on 8 sticks, 1.475V on 4 x4GB.
> 
> try setting dram voltage 25mV higher than eventual. should do the trick for post and stability.


Ok, I have a plan, tell me if this might be a good way to find a SA setting better than stock. My current OC is 3000mhz 15-15-15-35-cr1 at 1.38v. I found that if I set the first number to 14 and change nothing else, I can get into Windows but OCCT fails within 3-5 minutes. I started at +0.065 offset (so around 0.945), and am stepping up 0.005 each attempt with cold boot after each change. If I get a run that lasts longer than 5 minutes, I fine tune from there (at +0.085 right now, no dice yet.)

Something like this is the only way I can think of to test for a better SA. If I'm missing something, please let me know.


----------



## Qwinn

Sigh, well, clearly I am missing something. Just wasted a whole night, up to 1.04v so far and haven't made it past 6 minutes occt yet. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Qwinn

Finally got up to 1.07v with no better stability. Experiment failure. Maybe I'm not understanding what SA is supposed to actually help with.

So let me ask this: my 32gb kit is XMP rated at 2666 15-15-15-35-2T. I already managed to overclock this to 3000 15-15-15-35-1T using 1.38v and 0.880v SA. All other timings I copied from the XMP 2666 settings. Is that a decent overclock for this kit? It's hard to tell because while people list these insane 3200 13-13-13-28 timings, we don't know what the kit was originally rated at to gauge just how much they actually increased performance over their XMP. So, if you guys tell me that *for the kit in question* the OC I have already managed is decent/close to the best I'd get regardless without going into crazy voltages, then I can be happy. But if a 2666 kit with those timings *should* be able to do much better than I have for 1.38v, please let me know that too. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Ok, thanks. So unless a stick gets dropped, my previous restarts with SA modified were probably ok? If so, ugh, then i really so have major issues finding a good SA.
> 
> Can you please offer some tips on how to go about this? Like, if a given SA is good for one specific OC, will it be good for all OC's? I'm just trying to think of some way that I can rerun a test of all the e possible SA values that doesn't require a several hour stability test to rule each one out.
> 
> Oh, and when you suggest a lower SA, you're not suggesting going below the stock 0.880v, right?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Finally got up to 1.07v with no better stability. Experiment failure. Maybe I'm not understanding what SA is supposed to actually help with.
> 
> So let me ask this: my 32gb kit is XMP rated at 2666 15-15-15-35-2T. I already managed to overclock this to 3000 15-15-15-35-1T using 1.38v and 0.880v SA. All other timings I copied from the XMP 2666 settings. Is that a decent overclock for this kit? It's hard to tell because while people list these insane 3200 13-13-13-28 timings, we don't know what the kit was originally rated at to gauge just how much they actually increased performance over their XMP. So, if you guys tell me that *for the kit in question* the OC I have already managed is decent/close to the best I'd get regardless without going into crazy voltages, then I can be happy. But if a 2666 kit with those timings *should* be able to do much better than I have for 1.38v, please let me know that too. Thanks in advance.


With VCCSA on this platform and CPU, the System Agent voltage can need soak testing to find the right voltage for the DRAM configuration you are using. Most CPU will not like more than 1.15v depending on the board - but each individual CPU will be different.

What you will find is if you are using too little the system will either fail DRAM training or will hang at OS hand off. These are two indicate that either cache or memory is not stable. There is no one voltage fits all for this, so you will have to also make sure the rest of the system is stable, perhaps reverting cache to default to eliminate this. Earlier you said you had raised cache higher.

Where as also there are no EAN numbers or part numbers listed for the timings in the table, this may also be counterproductive as no two kits will be identical. It's better maybe to focus on what your kit is capable of rather than the others around you.


----------



## Qwinn

Thanks for the reply. For the record, my current overclock which is 4.4 Ghz core 4.2Ghz cache and the 3000 15-15-15-35-CR1 memory I mentioned above passed 14 hours OCCT, and then another 8 hours OCCT when I switched the cache from manual voltage to offset. It's pretty darn stable as is, and actually, I couldn't get stable above 3.8Ghz cache when I was on Xmp 2666, but once I'd overclocked the memory I just set the cache multiplier to 42, upped vcache to 1.2 and got perfect stability.

Also passed 1000% coverage in HCI memtest, tho in my experience OCCT seems to find memory instability much quicker.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Thanks for the reply. For the record, my current overclock which is 4.4 Ghz core 4.2Ghz cache and the 3000 15-15-15-35-CR1 memory I mentioned above passed 14 hours OCCT, and then another 8 hours OCCT when I switched the cache from manual voltage to offset. It's pretty darn stable as is, and actually, I couldn't get stable above 3.8Ghz cache when I was on Xmp 2666, but once I'd overclocked the memory I just set the cache multiplier to 42, upped vcache to 1.2 and got perfect stability.
> 
> Also passed 1000% coverage in HCI memtest, tho in my experience OCCT seems to find memory instability much quicker.


Then in that case I would simply use the system


----------



## Qwinn

Well, still looking to see if I can wring any more out of it before I lock in. Can you explain what you meant by soak testing? Note that I've not had much of an issue failing to boot, but if I try to raise DRAM volts above 1.38, it starts dropping a stick or 2.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Well, still looking to see if I can wring any more out of it before I lock in. Can you explain what you meant by soak testing? Note that I've not had much of an issue failing to boot, but if I try to raise DRAM volts above 1.38, it starts dropping a stick or 2.


Soak testing as in to say test the same setting over a period of time to maintain that there are no cold boot or stability issues. Some Hynix based kits may have a negligible impact with more voltage. I would recommend using Google Stress App test if wanting to save time with this. HCI is slower in comparison at picking up errors, especially when covering that much memory.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Will the lifespan of 1.35V DIMMs be any shorter than what it would have been at 1.2V, or is it within margin of error? I am talking specifically about manual overclocking this time, if that makes a difference.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Will the lifespan of 1.35V DIMMs be any shorter than what it would have been at 1.2V, or is it within margin of error? I am talking specifically about manual overclocking this time, if that makes a difference.


To answer everything you just said, none of it makes a difference. You may as well be asking about the longevity of the universe at those voltages


----------



## Kimir

1.35v being certified voltage for Intel XMP, it safe to say you can run your DDR4 at that voltage for years to come. And we are not safevoltage.net, are we?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> 1.35v being certified voltage for Intel XMP, it safe to say you can run your DDR4 at that voltage for years to come. *And we are not safevoltage.net, are we?*


----------



## Raghar

I actually think about underclocking. The new CPUs are rather bleak.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> I actually think about underclocking. The new CPUs are rather bleak.


Hmmm, there's a thought ... maybe try a 1.1v vcore?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> I actually think about underclocking. The new CPUs are rather bleak.


Living life on the edge are we.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Soak testing as in to say test the same setting over a period of time to maintain that there are no cold boot or stability issues. Some Hynix based kits may have a negligible impact with more voltage. I would recommend using Google Stress App test if wanting to save time with this. HCI is slower in comparison at picking up errors, especially when covering that much memory.


Samsung memory here.

As for GSAT, tried once to create a bootable DVD for Linux but didn't work. If anyone knows of a guide on how to do it, a link would be appreciated.

So basically I'm hitting a wall at 1.38v. If I raise it any higher than that, my system drops one or two sticks, which basically prevents me from running at 15CL 3200Mhz. I'd be willing to take it up to 1.45v if I could get that working, but no idea how to get past that 1.38v wall.

One thing I haven't tried is playing with VCCIO. I know nothing about it, seen almost no discussion about it regarding safe limits. But as I noted last night, played with VCCSA for 5 hours last night, tried every +0.005v increment from 0.945v to 1.070v and nothing made my setting 3000Mhz to CL14 any more stable in OCCT.

One odd thing I noted playing with Samsung memory presets for 3200Mhz last night, after my VCCSA run, is that if I set voltage to 1.38v it would drop one stick, but if I set it to 1.35v or 1.39v it would drop two sticks.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> I actually think about underclocking. The new CPUs are rather bleak.


which "new cpus"?


----------



## Qwinn

Never mind my previous request for a guide to get GSAT working, finally did it, I think enabling CSM is what did the trick. Running 1 hour test, hopefully I can get the screenshots to submit my OC. I'd be the only 5930k on the 32gb Haswell E list!

EDIT: Passed the test, but bleah, nope, did gnome-screenshot in terminal but if it saved any files to the DVD I was running off, I can't find them now. Will have to run HCI memtest to get on the board, it seems.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> which "new cpus"?


I believe he's referring to the Broadwell-Es .... bleakness I'm looking forward to


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I believe he's referring to the Broadwell-Es .... bleakness I'm looking forward to


lol - not sure how anyone could forecast "bleakness" at this point.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - not sure how anyone could forecast "bleakness" at this point.


Kind of like the weather forecast, without the satellite data


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Samsung memory here.
> 
> As for GSAT, tried once to create a bootable DVD for Linux but didn't work. If anyone knows of a guide on how to do it, a link would be appreciated.
> 
> So basically I'm hitting a wall at 1.38v. If I raise it any higher than that, my system drops one or two sticks, which basically prevents me from running at 15CL 3200Mhz. I'd be willing to take it up to 1.45v if I could get that working, but no idea how to get past that 1.38v wall.
> 
> One thing I haven't tried is playing with VCCIO. I know nothing about it, seen almost no discussion about it regarding safe limits. But as I noted last night, played with VCCSA for 5 hours last night, tried every +0.005v increment from 0.945v to 1.070v and nothing made my setting 3000Mhz to CL14 any more stable in OCCT.
> 
> One odd thing I noted playing with Samsung memory presets for 3200Mhz last night, after my VCCSA run, is that if I set voltage to 1.38v it would drop one stick, but if I set it to 1.35v or 1.39v it would drop two sticks.


Who knows what's happening. You seem to be trying all sorts. My advice to you would be to stop relying on OCCT for memory stability testing and not to be so quick to give up with using Stress App. Two to three hours of this should rule out any issues you are having there. The kit you are using is binned for 2666, so it's plausible that one or more sticks may not be able to run at 3000+ without issue.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> which "new cpus"?


10 nm ones.


----------



## johnd0e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> 10 nm ones.


Cannon lake? Is there even any credible info on them yet?


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnd0e*
> 
> Cannon lake? Is there even any credible info on them yet?


Two pieces of info:
They would have a lot of cores. Theirs peak frequency would suck.

That assumes it would be economical for Intel to release any 10 nm CPU for a normal PC. There is still a chance it would be tablet only line.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - not sure how anyone could forecast "bleakness" at this point.


Not that I believe this to be accurate in any way, but our wallets may look a little bleak after it's all said and done.









http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638363

http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638366

http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638368

http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638369

Converted from that funny money, it looks like they are wanting $1850 USD a pop without official pricing having been announced.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Not that I believe this to be accurate in any way, but our wallets may look a little bleak after it's all said and done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638363
> 
> http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638366
> 
> http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638368
> 
> http://search.ncix.com/products/?sku=SY5638369
> 
> Converted from that funny money, it looks like they are wanting $1850 USD a pop without official pricing having been announced.


That's a PT Barnum price. Hopefully Intel releases the 10 core X chip at lower than the rumored 1500USD (ouch!).


----------



## moorhen2

And off we go, may take a while though, lol.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> That's a PT Barnum price.


I had to look that up, but you're dead on.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> That's a PT Barnum price. Hopefully Intel releases the 10 core X chip at lower than the rumored 1500USD (ouch!).


It does resemble a circus


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> That's a PT Barnum price. Hopefully Intel releases the 10 core X chip at lower than the rumored 1500USD (ouch!).


Don't get your hopes up


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

So I am now visiting the memory settings on my BIOS, and for some strange reason, Gigabyte prohibits the use of a VDIMM that is not an even number. In other words, I can enter 1.34 and 1.36, but I am not able to, under any circumstances, enter 1.35V. For now I will make do with 2400-12-12-12-34-2t @1.34V, and see where I go from there.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> So I am now visiting the memory settings on my BIOS, and for some strange reason, Gigabyte prohibits the use of a VDIMM that is not an even number. In other words, I can enter 1.34 and 1.36, but I am not able to, under any circumstances, enter 1.35V. For now I will make do with 2400-12-12-12-34-2t @1.34V, and see where I go from there.


10 mV is not going to be a meaningful difference is any use-scenario . VDIMM will float by 10mV when in use anyway.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> And off we go, may take a while though, lol.


Nice frequency... is 3400c16 any better than say 3200c14?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Don't get your hopes up


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> That's a PT Barnum price. Hopefully Intel releases the 10 core X chip at lower than the rumored 1500USD (ouch!).


http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38177902&postcount=3580









I think I'm going to stick with my 5960X for the foreseeable future, maybe play with an 8 core Broadwell-E. The jump from 6 cores to 8 cores was a lot larger than the jump from 8 to 10 will be, and they're wanting to charge an even steeper premium. I know there's plenty in my wallet to pay whatever Intel asks, but at some point I just have to say no.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38177902&postcount=3580
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to stick with my 5960X for the foreseeable future, maybe play with an 8 core Broadwell-E. The jump from 6 cores to 8 cores was a lot larger than the jump from 8 to 10 will be, and they're wanting to charge an even steeper premium. I know there's plenty in my wallet to pay whatever Intel asks, but at some point I just have to say no.


I wish I had that level of discipline and self-control. I salute you! I may be able to hold off through some initial hands on reviews, but I doubt it. You're right though, the premium on the last leg of that pricing scale is steep! I'm hoping it's that way because Intel knows something about it is worth it and not just because it's the first consumer 10 core. We'll see soon enough.


----------



## Kimir

Meh, $1600, so I expect 1600€ too (even if it's not 1:1), it's more than I earn in a month, nop, no can do with that pricing.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38177902&postcount=3580
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to stick with my 5960X for the foreseeable future, maybe play with an 8 core Broadwell-E. The jump from 6 cores to 8 cores was a lot larger than the jump from 8 to 10 will be, and they're wanting to charge an even steeper premium. I know there's plenty in my wallet to pay whatever Intel asks, but at some point I just have to say no.












Man, F*** that noise.


----------



## MR-e

This is what we get hit with in Canada at a disti level @[email protected]



Spoiler: Price


----------



## Qwinn

For the Haswell-E 32GB tab. The memory is originally a G.Skill 4x8GB 2666Mhz 15-15-15-35-2T kit as you can see in the CPU-Z shot. The board is the Rampage V Extreme and the input VCCIN is 1.92v at LLC7.

Qwinn--5930K @4.4/4.2---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.38v---SA 0.88v---HCI 1200%



EDIT: Oh, and for anyone who's interested... I actually think my Aida bench comes out pretty high compared to most I've seen posted by folks with similar overclocks:


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

This is rather odd... 3000 15-15-15-35-2T fails to post (thank god for DualBios) under 1.34V. Yet , 2666 13-13-13-35-2T, a theoretically faster configuration, is working just fine thus far on memtest.

Does anybody have any performance benchmarks to compare these two settings, because I cannot do the benchmarking myself if I wanted to do. There has to be something I am missing here.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Well, that anomaly aside, I have results to submit:

Username: Colonel_Gerdauf
CPU: 6600K
Motherboard: Gaming 5 (MicroATX) - Z170MX
Core Clock 4.0
Uncore Clock: 4.0
Memory Frequency: 2666MHz
Timings: 13-13-13-35-2T
Voltage: 1.34V
SA: Auto
VCCIN: Auto
Test: HCI 400%


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Well, that anomaly aside, I have results to submit:
> 
> Username: Colonel_Gerdauf
> CPU: 6600K
> Motherboard: Gaming 5 (MicroATX) - Z170MX
> Core Clock 4.0
> Uncore Clock: 4.0
> Memory Frequency: 2666MHz
> Timings: 13-13-13-35-2T
> Voltage: 1.34V
> SA: Auto
> VCCIN: Auto
> Test: HCI 400%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hello

That's an interesting screenshot. I'm not sure why you are using 2N. Most any decent memory/CPU combination can do 2666MHz CAS 13 at 1N.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> This is rather odd... 3000 15-15-15-35-2T fails to post (thank god for DualBios) under 1.34V. Yet , 2666 13-13-13-35-2T, a theoretically faster configuration, is working just fine thus far on memtest.
> 
> Does anybody have any performance benchmarks to compare these two settings, because I cannot do the benchmarking myself if I wanted to do. There has to be something I am missing here.


Well, I can't give you the exact numbers, but these are pretty close. If anything, I think my 2666 is slightly better than you're asking for, and it still loses.

3000 15-15-15-35-1T:



2666 13-13-13-15-1T:



I think the 3000 wins pretty handily, despite the slightly better latency of the 2666. Do note, the 2666 wasn't tested for stability, the 3000 is 14 hour OCCT and 1200% HCI stable.

EDIT: I tried it with 13-13-13-35-1T as well, so other than the command rate it's pretty much exactly what you asked for. Changing the last 13 to 35 made no major difference in the benchmark. What differences there are are all well within the margin of variation I get from one run to another using the same OC.


----------



## done12many2

Is the time I'm spending to test each stick in each slot wasted effort or is there benefit to actually doing it? It's painfully time consuming, but I am seeing that all slots are not equal.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> For the Haswell-E 32GB tab. The memory is originally a G.Skill 4x8GB 2666Mhz 15-15-15-35-2T kit as you can see in the CPU-Z shot. The board is the Rampage V Extreme and the input VCCIN is 1.92v at LLC7.
> 
> Qwinn--5930K @4.4/4.2---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.38v---SA 0.88v---HCI 1200%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Oh, and for anyone who's interested... I actually think my Aida bench comes out pretty high compared to most I've seen posted by folks with similar overclocks:


Thanks for the submissions








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Is the time I'm spending to test each stick in each slot wasted effort or is there benefit to actually doing it? It's painfully time consuming, but I am seeing that all slots are not equal.


It can be, but how so obviously depends on the kit


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Well, that anomaly aside, I have results to submit:
> 
> Username: Colonel_Gerdauf
> CPU: 6600K
> Motherboard: Gaming 5 (MicroATX) - Z170MX
> Core Clock 4.0
> Uncore Clock: 4.0
> Memory Frequency: 2666MHz
> Timings: 13-13-13-35-2T
> Voltage: 1.34V
> SA: Auto
> VCCIN: Auto
> Test: HCI 400%


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> That's an interesting screenshot. I'm not sure why you are using 2N. Most any decent memory/CPU combination can do 2666MHz CAS 13 at 1N.


Maybe it can't do 1T with 32 instances







. @Colonel Gerdauf Did you read the op correctly? Memtest pro is only $5


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Maybe it can't do 1T with 32 instances
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . @Colonel Gerdauf Did you read the op correctly? Memtest pro is only $5


Again, I seem to be missing something important. I had done 32 instances, under the assumption that with a smaller block per instance, the overall test would run faster. Is this wrong?

Also, I will consider purchasing Memtest Pro.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It can be, but how so obviously depends on the kit


I'm learning some interesting stuff about my RAM and my DIMM slots in the process of doing this. I'm glad I did because I would have never realized the variations with regards to the RAM and the DIMM slots themselves.

With that said, are the differences in voltage requirements from one DIMM slot to another a product of the IMC or the board layout/traces?


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> Again, I seem to be missing something important. I had done 32 instances, under the assumption that with a smaller block per instance, the overall test would run faster. Is this wrong?
> 
> Also, I will consider purchasing Memtest Pro.


Unless you've got 32 processors/threads, yeah, it's wrong. You're just creating overhead making each processor/thread have to jump from one instance to another. You definitely want at least as many instances as you have cores/threads, but beyond that you're not helping it run any faster, even though more than that may be necessary to get full coverage of all your RAM, which was my situation. Since the max you can do for a single instance is 2048Mb, and I have 32GB of RAM, 12 instances (I have a 5930k which is 6 hyperthreaded cores so I have 12 threads) comes to only 24-25 gigs. I added one more during my run for good measure. Was going to add more but that would've been a bad thing, I could barely get my instances of CPU-Z open after starting up the 13, heh.

Seems you've got a 6600 quad core, which I assume is hyperthreaded so 8 instances would be ideal for you if you can get 90% or so coverage of your available RAM with that.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Unless you've got 32 processors/threads, yeah, it's wrong. You're just creating overhead making each processor/thread have to jump from one instance to another. You definitely want at least as many instances as you have cores/threads, but beyond that you're not helping it run any faster, even though more than that may be necessary to get full coverage of all your RAM, which was my situation. Since the max you can do for a single instance is 2048Mb, and I have 32GB of RAM, 12 instances (I have a 5930k which is 6 hyperthreaded cores so I have 12 threads) comes to only 24-25 gigs. I added one more during my run for good measure. Was going to add more but that would've been a bad thing, I could barely get my instances of CPU-Z open after starting up the 13, heh.
> 
> Seems you've got a 6600 quad core, which I assume is hyperthreaded so 8 instances would be ideal for you if you can get 90% or so coverage of your available RAM with that.


One should never assume







. The 6600 is devoid of Hyper threading, so 4 instances should be used ideally. If it becomes too much trying to work out what one should be using or cannot allocate enough memory to test, Google Stress app is likely more appropriate.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> One should never assume
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The 6600 is devoid of Hyper threading, so 4 instances should be used ideally. If it becomes too much trying to work out what one should be using or cannot allocate enough memory to test, Google Stress app is likely more appropriate.


Hello

This ^^. SAT makes this a non-issue.


----------



## Qwinn

The issue I had with GSAT is that I was running it off a burned DVD, and doing "gnome screenshot" seemed to take a picture but it didn't appear to save it anywhere. I guess I could try installing and running it off an 8 gig USB stick... would that work? Also there were instructions on how to display system info and "scroll to the relevant information", but typing the gnome-screenshot scrolled it back to the bottom of the terminal window.


----------



## Qwinn

One other question. The memory OC "ROG DRAM Timing Control Guide" in the original post of this thread makes many references to DDR3 memory, none to DDR4. Is there an updated guide available? Or do all the same suggested timings apply, which would seem improbable?


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It can be, but how so obviously depends on the kit


Silent Scone / Jpmboy,

Can you help me make sense of this? I'm not sure that I needed all of this, but I recorded it since I was already in the middle of a LONG process.

Obviously, some sticks are better than other sticks and some DIMMS slots are better than other DIMM slots.

What I don't understand is should I be pairing my worst DIMM slot with the theoretically best stick or should I pair worst with worst?

These were all done with the stock XMP loaded without CPU or any other overclocks. MemTest was only to 100%.

Thanks in advance for your time.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> One other question. The memory OC "ROG DRAM Timing Control Guide" in the original post of this thread makes many references to DDR3 memory, none to DDR4. Is there an updated guide available? Or do all the same suggested timings apply, which would seem improbable?


The timing rules remain largely the same besides the new tCCD spec relating to banking groups.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Silent Scone / Jpmboy,
> 
> Can you help me make sense of this? I'm not sure that I needed all of this, but I recorded it since I was already in the middle of a LONG process.
> 
> Obviously, some sticks are better than other sticks and some DIMMS slots are better than other DIMM slots.
> 
> What I don't understand is should I be pairing my worst DIMM slot with the theoretically best stick or should I pair worst with worst?
> 
> These were all done with the stock XMP loaded without CPU or any other overclocks. MemTest was only to 100%.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your time.


Depends what you mean by 'worst' DIMM slot. I would only go so far as to make sure the lesser capable memory were residing closer to the CPU. It will only be of real benefit when looking for the nearer limits of what the kit is capable of, which generally speaking is when users become unstuck. Personally I don't concern myself with looking to do this. I install the kit (preferably in serial order going by the label) and see what it can do.


----------



## CL3P20

slot dependency is for RTL... dont need to worry about it unless your making adjustments which tighten RTL training.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

So, with further testing, 2666 is the highest frequency I can go before cranking up the VCCIO and VCCSA, and i am keeping those at manually set defaults of 0.95V and 1.05V, respectively. The "auto" default provided by the UEFI overvolts both values by 10mV at the minimum value, and I am trying to prolong the lifespan of the CPU, even if the voltage differences add up to nothing.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Depends what you mean by 'worst' DIMM slot. I would only go so far as to make sure the lesser capable memory were residing closer to the CPU. It will only be of real benefit when looking for the nearer limits of what the kit is capable of, which generally speaking is when users become unstuck. Personally I don't concern myself with looking to do this. I install the kit (preferably in serial order going by the label) and see what it can do.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> slot dependency is for RTL... dont need to worry about it unless your making adjustments which tighten RTL training.


Gentlemen,

Thanks for the information and help.

Interestingly enough, when I arrange them so that the ones that require more voltage are closer to the CPU, all of the serial numbers fall back into numerical order. It appears that G.Skill does something similar or maybe better when testing and pairing these sets.

Long story short, I just wasted a bunch of time, but I learned a little.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I install the kit (preferably in serial order going by the label) and see what it can do.


I never knew there was any sort of preferred order to install these in. Do you mean lowest serial # in channel A1, next serial # in channel B1, etc.?

Also, in CPU-Z, for whatever reason the serial # under each DIMM is blank. Not finding it showing serial #'s in Aida64 Extreme either.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> Thanks for the information and help.
> 
> Interestingly enough, *when I arrange them so that the ones that require more voltage are closer to the CPU*, all of the serial numbers fall back into numerical order. It appears that G.Skill does something similar or maybe better when testing and pairing these sets.
> 
> Long story short, I just wasted a bunch of time, but I learned a little.


You are supposed to do the opposite. Sorting my RAM per slot helped me, even if I'm not chasing RTL.


----------



## moorhen2

Question guys, is anyone using this kit on the x99 platform, looking at getting some. ??

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ACOCFFG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Question guys, is anyone using this kit on the x99 platform, looking at getting some. ??
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ACOCFFG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE


Yes. That set is an excellent set.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Question guys, is anyone using this kit on the x99 platform, looking at getting some. ??
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ACOCFFG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE


A few of us have used these with good results on X99


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> A few of us have used these with good results on X99


Thanks, will have to get some then.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

So another stupid question from me: is there any specific reason why DDR4 frequencies beyond 2666MHz fail to post on my end? Is the VCCSA or BCLK too low, or am I (once again) missing something obvious?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> So another stupid question from me: is there any specific reason why DDR4 frequencies beyond 2666MHz fail to post on my end? Is the VCCSA or BCLK too low, or am I (once again) missing something obvious?


What memory kit? Tuning the DRAM, SA and IO voltages may be nessessary, yes. BCLK can be left in auto.


----------



## Qwinn

Sorry if this has been answered but I only saw the answer for Skylake: what are safe voltages for both VCCIO and SA on x99? Also, is VCCIO "more is better" like most voltages or is it a complete pain in the sweet spot like SA?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Sorry if this has been answered but I only saw the answer for Skylake: what are safe voltages for both VCCIO and SA on x99? Also, is VCCIO "more is better" like most voltages or is it a complete pain in the sweet spot like SA?


In regards to X99, VCCIO should only need a small bump when really pushing things, and can mostly be left to the board. On the Rampage, no more than 1.15v SA should be needed. In fact most CPU should not need more than 1.05v depending on the amount of memory installed.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38177902&postcount=3580
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to stick with my 5960X for the foreseeable future, maybe play with an 8 core Broadwell-E. The jump from 6 cores to 8 cores was a lot larger than the jump from 8 to 10 will be, and they're wanting to charge an even steeper premium. I know there's plenty in my wallet to pay whatever Intel asks, but at some point I just have to say no.


daaum - I hope that post is from an AMD fanboy looking to scare off 10-core buyers. The most critical thing is gonna be how well the 10-core handles heat at that density. It's gotta be better than the current 10-core e-class chips or they'll be no fun.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Silent Scone / Jpmboy,
> Can you help me make sense of this? I'm not sure that I needed all of this, but I recorded it since I was already in the middle of a LONG process.
> Obviously, some sticks are better than other sticks and some DIMMS slots are better than other DIMM slots.
> What I don't understand is should I be pairing my worst DIMM slot with the theoretically best stick or should I pair worst with worst?
> These were all done with the stock XMP loaded without CPU or any other overclocks. MemTest was only to 100%.
> Thanks in advance for your time.


I was gonna say to ask rt123 or CL3p20.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> slot dependency is for RTL... dont need to worry about it unless your making adjustments which tighten RTL training.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You are supposed to do the opposite. Sorting my RAM per slot helped me, even if I'm not chasing RTL.


can 't say I've spent the time to slot-match sticks on this platform... 8 slots x 8 sticks...







I'd rather go to the dentist.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Question guys, is anyone using this kit on the x99 platform, looking at getting some. ??
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01ACOCFFG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE


yes - it works great and results have been posted in this thread.








(if you weren;t in the UK I'd sell you my kit)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colonel Gerdauf*
> 
> So another stupid question from me: is there any specific reason why DDR4 frequencies beyond 2666MHz fail to post on my end? Is the VCCSA or BCLK too low, or am I (once again) missing something obvious?


please fill out rig builder and add your rig to your signature block. Link in my sig. otherwise we're guessing at what "stuff" you are using.


----------



## Colonel Gerdauf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> please fill out rig builder and add your rig to your signature block. Link in my sig. otherwise we're guessing at what "stuff" you are using.


Here is my rig in my signature block. I am unable to test anything though, as I am currently troubleshooting a software bootloop.


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> daaum - I hope that post is from an AMD fanboy looking to scare off 10-core buyers. The most critical thing is gonna be how well the 10-core handles heat at that density. It's gotta be better than the current 10-core e-class chips or they'll be no fun.
> I was gonna say to ask rt123 or CL3p20.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can 't say I've spent the time to slot-match sticks on this platform... 8 slots x 8 sticks...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather go to the dentist.
> yes - it works great and results have been posted in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (if you weren;t in the UK I'd sell you my kit)
> please fill out rig builder and add your rig to your signature block. Link in my sig. otherwise we're guessing at what "stuff" you are using.


Thanks mate, will order a kit and have a play. lol.


----------



## Silent Scone

Can only assume NewEgg lapped those kits all up initially.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> A couple of these kits will probably be my next purchase.
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-ddr4-3600mhz-cl15-15-15-16gb-8gbx2--low-latency-memory-kit


Hello

A couple of sets of these are inbound. Hopefully they are here by Friday.


----------



## Qwinn

So, a couple questions about Linux Mint, if anyone can help:

I currently run Windows 10 on my main NVME drive, and I have a 960gb ssd that I use only for storing backups. No OS or applications installed on it at all. If I were to install Linux on it, mainly just for the purpose of running GSAT, could I still have my windows 10 backup software use the remainder of the linux formatted ssd to store those backups? Would there be any sort of filesystem conflicts? Could I continue to just copy files on and off that linux ssd from windows as normal? If the linux install asks me to choose a filesystem type, can/should I pick NTFS?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> So, a couple questions about Linux Mint, if anyone can help:
> 
> I currently run Windows 10 on my main NVME drive, and I have a 960gb ssd that I use only for storing backups. No OS or applications installed on it at all. If I were to install Linux on it, mainly just for the purpose of running GSAT, could I still have my windows 10 backup software use the remainder of the linux formatted ssd to store those backups? Would there be any sort of filesystem conflicts? Could I continue to just copy files on and off that linux ssd from windows as normal? If the linux install asks me to choose a filesystem type, can/should I pick NTFS?


I have a 1GB HD with both Linux & a copy of Win10 just for stress testing (under duress stress testing can corrupt a RAID system and make it go through check / fix process if redundant or plain screw up a RAID 0, which I'd rather avoid). Just format as NTFS what you need for the backups and leave the unformatted partition for Linux. I have my backups on an external controller's RAID 6 volume.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> So, a couple questions about Linux Mint, if anyone can help:
> 
> I currently run Windows 10 on my main NVME drive, and I have a 960gb ssd that I use only for storing backups. No OS or applications installed on it at all. If I were to install Linux on it, mainly just for the purpose of running GSAT, could I still have my windows 10 backup software use the remainder of the linux formatted ssd to store those backups? Would there be any sort of filesystem conflicts? Could I continue to just copy files on and off that linux ssd from windows as normal? If the linux install asks me to choose a filesystem type, can/should I pick NTFS?


as digar said, you need to create a partitioned drive


----------



## The Pook

[email protected] stable at DDR4-3515 17-17-17-34 1T 1.30v and just loaded up Prime95 to test for real stability. Thought most 1150/1151 CPUs didn't like much past DDR4-3000?

With some extra volts it seemed to like 16-17-17-32 1T but I don't wanna run 1.35v 24/7 on DDR4 even if it can take it.



I'll make an "official" post when it runs for a while but I'm still dialing in the new build


----------



## emexci

My RAM Kit - Corsair 2133mhz - cl 13-15-15-28 [1.2v]
http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance-lpx-16gb-2x8gb-ddr4-dram-2133mhz-c13-memory-kit-black-cmk16gx4m2a2133c13

Bought in Amazon Warehouse Deals for 61€ and very happy with it.



6700K @ 4.2ghz @ 1.120v

DDR4-3000mhz- 16-16-16-36 1.35v

SA= 1.05
VCCIO= 1.1625v [HWInfo says: 1.2v - 1.205v]


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Pook*
> 
> [email protected] stable at DDR4-3515 17-17-17-34 1T 1.30v and just loaded up Prime95 to test for real stability. Thought most 1150/1151 CPUs didn't like much past DDR4-3000?


Hello

Not sure where you heard that regarding Z170. 3500MHz memory speed should be plug n' play for most systems especially with a pair of 4GB density modules.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I have a 1GB HD with both Linux & a copy of Win10 just for stress testing (under duress stress testing can corrupt a RAID system and make it go through check / fix process if redundant or plain screw up a RAID 0, which I'd rather avoid). Just format as NTFS what you need for the backups and leave the unformatted partition for Linux. I have my backups on an external controller's RAID 6 volume.


Great idea on just partitioning it, dunno why I didn't think of that. So how much space should I allocate to a linux install for just stressapptest? 5gb? 10?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Great idea on just partitioning it, dunno why I didn't think of that. So how much space should I allocate to a linux install for just stressapptest? 5gb? 10?


Not sure there, not a Linux dude and had to do several trial & error before getting it right. Without any real knowledge, I just partitioned what I needed for Win 10 which wasn't that much of the drive and left the rest for Linux, way more than it needs. You need to set the root system at the drive level, not the partition level, and also have some swap space.


----------



## jdallara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Great idea on just partitioning it, dunno why I didn't think of that. So how much space should I allocate to a linux install for just stressapptest? 5gb? 10?


Should be able to put everything on 10GB. Wouldn't worry about swap space, shouldn't need it for most installations today with the amount of memory available on most systems.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> A couple of sets of these are inbound. Hopefully they are here by Friday.


nice! Those should clock real well.

are they the same as *these*?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> nice! Those should clock real well.
> 
> are they the same as *these*?


Hello

Look to be. The timings are the same.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Look to be. The timings are the same.


those TZs sold out FAST!


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> those TZs sold out FAST!


Because they started binning them (on the Ram addict club that is).


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Because they started binning them (on the Ram addict club that is).


lol- the SPi 32M addicts.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Because they started binning them (on the Ram addict club that is).


What a waste.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol- the SPi 32M addicts.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What a waste.


To each his own.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> To each his own.


For using and nay for squandering


----------



## rt123

The Casual's mentality.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> The Casual's mentality.


With all due respect, and it's obviously been covered already - but the value and casualness of PI compared with something like stress app test considering both the strain and allocation of actual memory is somewhat questionable









Both have their own merit, but yeah...it's not really that difficult to distinguish at all


----------



## rt123

You call Pi, squandering.
While you probably spend more time running stress test on your computers than you spent on using it.









Using more memory makes it harder to pass, but doesn't make it hardcore.








You spend less time tweaking & have less time commitment. Aka casuals.

"Value" will vary from one individual to another, since its up to their own discretion.
When you can't help but take jabs at others at every opportunity, you might be compensating for some inadequacies of your own.


----------



## Jpmboy

anyway, think I pretty much reached the best I can do with these 8 sticks and stay near/at 1.4V for everyday use. 2h GSAT.

no update necessary:



lol - SPi32M is an addiction. And there is no cure except time.









dudes - they are just different. One ensures stability not necessarily short-term speed, the other is a benchmark that does not assess stability for any use outside the benchmark, but does the benchmark fast. As with most any benchmark, it's the difference between tuning for a drag-race vs 24h LeMans. Little gained by the other from what is learned in each.









edit: and I find it just as challenging to get the fastest-stable I can manage compared with the faster-not stable I can manage.


----------



## djgar

So, 10,000 HP for 4 seconds vs. 1,000 HP for 24 hours







...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> So, 10,000 HP for 4 seconds vs. 1,000 HP for 24 hours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol - 10,000HP and air cooled no less.









it is good to know that my 24-7 settings with 64GB still make the top50.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> You call Pi, squandering.
> While you probably spend more time running stress test on your computers than you spent on using it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using more memory makes it harder to pass, but doesn't make it hardcore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You spend less time tweaking & have less time commitment. Aka casuals.
> 
> "Value" will vary from one individual to another, since its up to their own discretion.
> When you can't help but take jabs at others at every opportunity, you might be compensating for some inadequacies of your own.


Arguing that there is limited value in testing stability compared with chasing PI is a pointless one. That is the beauty of testing with these things. Once you have done so, you are free to use the machine.

Sorry but whereas I respect it is a different kettle of fish, it doesn't make sense for you to attack the notion of stability testing considering there is limited value in what you prefer doing when it comes to using the machine to the best of its ability. I understand why it can be difficult to change stance on these things.

There is value in both methods, but one you are able to put the memory through any pace afterwards, the other normally has a very limited stability range


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> anyway, think I pretty much reached the best I can do with these 8 sticks and stay near/at 1.4V for everyday use. 2h GSAT.
> 
> no update necessary:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol - SPi32M is an addiction. And there is no cure except time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dudes - they are just different. One ensures stability not necessarily short-term speed, the other is a benchmark that does not assess stability for any use outside the benchmark, but does the benchmark fast. As with most any benchmark, it's the difference between tuning for a drag-race vs 24h LeMans. Little gained by the other from what is learned in each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: and I find it just as challenging to get the fastest-stable I can manage compared with the faster-not stable I can manage.












People don't run much Pi on HEDT Platform as they know those are not ideal for WR (max freq limitation). Try with the proper platform.
forum.hwbot.org/forumdisplay.php?f=159
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> *Arguing that there is limited value in testing stability compared with chasing PI is a pointless one.*


Never said that, plz don't put words in my mouth.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That is the beauty of testing with these things. Once you have done so, you are free to use the machine.
> 
> *Sorry but whereas I respect it is a different kettle of fish,it doesn't make sense for you to attack the notion of stability testing considering there is limited value in what you prefer doing when it comes to using the machine to the best of its ability. I understand why it can be difficult to change stance on these things.*
> 
> There is value in both methods, but one you are able to put the memory through any pace afterwards, the other normally has a very limited stability range


The hypocrisy








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What a waste.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> For using and nay for squandering


You understand..?
You Respect..?


----------



## Silent Scone

Perhaps hoarding would have been a better word. Anyway, it was inevitable you'd bite







Also to clear up the confusion, the use of the word respect is to your opinion, not the fact there is limited value in certain places


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People don't run much Pi on HEDT Platform as they know those are not ideal for WR (max freq limitation). Try with the proper platform.
> forum.hwbot.org/forumdisplay.php?f=159


yeah, I putzed around on both the M8E and Impact with 32M.... not much to be gained unless one goes LN2. Have you posted up on *Raspies maxmem thread* here at OCN?


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Perhaps hoarding would have been a better word. Anyway, it was inevitable you'd bite
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also to clear up the confusion, the use of the word respect is to your opinion, not the fact there is limited value in certain places


I guess somethings never change.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, I putzed around on both the M8E and Impact with 32M.... not much to be gained unless one goes LN2. Have you posted up on *Raspies maxmem thread* here at OCN?


5G/5G should be doable on water with delidded CPU. 2C is easy.

Haven't posted in the competition yet. Mainly because I was busy hoarding and also because I have little time to learn new benches that don't have points on bot.
Will run through my Pi Config this weekend. Hopefully its not too bad.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> I guess somethings never change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5G/5G should be doable on water with delidded CPU. 2C is easy.
> 
> Haven't posted in the competition yet. Mainly because I was busy hoarding and also because I have little time to learn new benches that don't have points on bot.
> Will run through my Pi Config this weekend. Hopefully its not too bad.


there's like 250 days left on the clock.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> I guess somethings never change.


Actually they are







!


----------



## Jpmboy

You gotta admit... it gets pretty boring with everybody using the same MB (OCF) and fighting for the same ram sticks: 3600c16s... now the 3600c15s, and running 12-12-12 28-1T. yawn.

lol - I do think a noob like me gave pause to some players with this score.. all those above using cryo cooling too (to run silly cache freqs). ram only at 2666 24/7. Efficiency can be elusive, and when it is, break out the cold.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> anyway, think I pretty much reached the best I can do with these 8 sticks and stay near/at 1.4V for everyday use. 2h GSAT.
> 
> no update necessary:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> lol - SPi32M is an addiction. And there is no cure except time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dudes - they are just different. One ensures stability not necessarily short-term speed, the other is a benchmark that does not assess stability for any use outside the benchmark, but does the benchmark fast. As with most any benchmark, it's the difference between tuning for a drag-race vs 24h LeMans. Little gained by the other from what is learned in each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: and I find it just as challenging to get the fastest-stable I can manage compared with the faster-not stable I can manage
> 
> 
> .


I just finished testing with the same secondary timings modifications (tRWSR/DR/DD to 4 and tWTR_L to 7, else in place) and it passed GSAT for an hour with the same voltage here. I'll start a 2h test before folding to be safe, but seems solid.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> I just finished testing with the same secondary timings modifications (tRWSR/DR/DD to 4 and tWTR_L to 7, else in place) and it passed GSAT for an hour with the same voltage here. I'll start a 2h test before folding to be safe, but seems solid.


REally?
64GB?
At 298 I got an IRQL not less than... bsod last night, but it could have been due to some other things going on at the time. Not happened since.


----------



## jasjeet

Testing my Gskill trident 15-16-16-35 3000mhz at 14-14-14-32 and looking good in HCI memtest for over an hour.

I set TRTP to 10, what's a good start point?

What's the best way to stress for this?

Edit
Passed 1hour of GSAT, think ill leave it now and just play some games.
13-14-14-32 didnt boot
14-14-14-32 340 trfc no boot
14-14-14-32 390 trfc 8 tRTP no boot.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jasjeet*
> 
> Testing my Gskill trident 15-16-16-35 3000mhz at 14-14-14-32 and looking good in HCI memtest for over an hour.
> 
> I set TRTP to 10, what's a good start point?
> 
> What's the best way to stress for this?
> 
> Edit
> Passed 1hour of GSAT, think ill leave it now and just play some games.
> 13-14-14-32 didnt boot
> 14-14-14-32 340 trfc no boot
> 14-14-14-32 390 trfc 8 tRTP no boot.


Nice job! dl a copy of asrock timing configurator (v305) and post a snip of your ram settings.


----------



## jasjeet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice job! dl a copy of asrock timing configurator (v305) and post a snip of your ram settings.


Tips welcome, never played with RAM much:





Sorry its cut off at the bottom, but i have this PC connected to a 720p TV








Got a couple of hours of GTA V in without any issues too. System is good to go


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jasjeet*
> 
> Tips welcome, never played with RAM much:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry its cut off at the bottom, but i have this PC connected to a 720p TV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a couple of hours of GTA V in without any issues too. System is good to go


If it working well and good to go... enjoy!


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jasjeet*
> 
> Testing my Gskill trident 15-16-16-35 3000mhz at 14-14-14-32 and looking good in HCI memtest for over an hour.
> 
> I set TRTP to 10, what's a good start point?
> 
> What's the best way to stress for this?
> 
> Edit
> Passed 1hour of GSAT, think ill leave it now and just play some games.
> 13-14-14-32 didnt boot
> 14-14-14-32 340 trfc no boot
> 14-14-14-32 390 trfc 8 tRTP no boot.


Can I request your Aida benchmark results for your xmp? Cause I'm thinking your read/write/copy should be significantly higher.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Can I request your Aida benchmark results for your xmp? Cause I'm thinking your read/write/copy should be significantly higher.


It will not be, as he is using Z170 and you x99.


----------



## jasjeet

Is CR1 worth it? I was able to boot 14-14-32 1T no problems.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jasjeet*
> 
> Is CR1 worth it? I was able to boot 14-14-32 1T no problems.


If it's stable - yes.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It will not be, as he is using Z170 and you x99.


Really? I had no idea the benchmarks were so different between the two architectures for similar settings. Good to know. Happier I spent the extra monies for X99 now, heh.

EDIT: Just realized why I was ignorant... flipped through this thread and the first Aida benchmark I see for Z170 isn't until jmpboy's post #226.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Really? I had no idea the benchmarks were so different between the two architectures for similar settings. Good to know. Happier I spent the extra monies for X99 now, heh.
> 
> EDIT: Just realized why I was ignorant... flipped through this thread and the first Aida benchmark I see for Z170 isn't until jmpboy's post #226.


Very different.


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Really? I had no idea the benchmarks were so different between the two architectures for similar settings. Good to know. Happier I spent the extra monies for X99 now, heh.
> 
> EDIT: Just realized why I was ignorant... flipped through this thread and the first Aida benchmark I see for Z170 isn't until jmpboy's post #226.


X99 has quad channel memory, while Z170 is only dual channel.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> X99 has quad channel memory, while Z170 is only dual channel.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Really? I had no idea the benchmarks were so different between the two architectures for similar settings. Good to know. Happier I spent the extra monies for X99 now, heh.
> 
> EDIT: Just realized why I was ignorant... flipped through this thread and the first Aida benchmark I see for Z170 isn't until jmpboy's post #226.


X99 is all about bandwidth. You did your research before buying clearly


----------



## Qwinn

Clearly I did enough







Mainly I chose based on which architecture dominated on leaderboards


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> X99 has quad channel memory, while Z170 is only dual channel.


Quad channel rules!


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> REally?
> 64GB?
> At 298 I got an IRQL not less than... bsod last night, but it could have been due to some other things going on at the time. Not happened since.


32GB, I only had 64GB when binning, I wasn't sending back a kit until I received the new one.


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic--i7-5820K @ 4.7Ghz/4.5Ghz---3200Mhz-Cl14-14-14-32-1T----VDIMM 1.38v---SA 1.06v---HCI 1000%
1.29vcore/1.27vring/1.98vccin standard LLC 1.89v under load /1.94v idle


cl13 is slower for me since i cant get the secondaries and tertiary's as tight.


----------



## nexxusty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it's a good divider and a sweetspot. 2666c12 is also very high performing @ 32GB.


I can imagine. I had my 2666mhz Hynix MFR kit at 2666mhz c12. 16gb however. If these were double sided sticks they'd be that much nicer.

Grabbed some Samsung E-Die for my 5930k, realistically I am looking for around 3200-3300mhz C12 I think. I don't want much more, interested to see what max Mhz is though.... certain game engines love raw Mhz. Frostbite for example.

Back in the day I had to keep these values written down or in my head (usually thend latter) in order to utilize them. Now with BIOS profiles we can just load off when we need. It's a very handy feature.

Couldn't even imagine having that with my Pentium 200mmx or my Celeron 300a. Hehe.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nexxusty*
> 
> Grabbed some Samsung E-Die for my 5930k, realistically I am looking for around 3200-3300mhz C12 I think.


Hello

C12 at 300MHz might be possible but 3200MHz is most likely a bit optimistic.


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic--i5 6600K @ 4.0Ghz/4.0Ghz---3200Mhz-Cl15-15-15-35-1T----VDIMM 1.4v---SA AUTO---HCI 1000%


----------



## nexxusty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> C12 at 300MHz might be possible but 3200MHz is most likely a bit optimistic.


I usually use a bit more voltage than most do... hehe. That 2666mhz result was at 1.450v, 24/7.

I'm hoping [email protected] is not my c12 limit. That would be depressing. IMC would be the limiting factor anyway. Hopefully Broadwell-E will give us a slightly better IMC. This 5930k is just a placeholder until it can find its final home and shine one Broadwell-E.

I'm not expecting much from Broadwell-E IMC's, however anything would be nice right?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> 32GB, I only had 64GB when binning, I wasn't sending back a kit until I received the new one.


ah... 64GB is certainly excessive.. but I keep a 16GB ram disk loaded(loading) for some quick starts. It gets silly tho, not like starts off the Intel 750 are slow.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quad channel rules!


dude - you gotta see the thru-put with octa-channel, even at 1600.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nexxusty*
> 
> I can imagine. I had my 2666mhz Hynix MFR kit at 2666mhz c12. 16gb however. If these were double sided sticks they'd be that much nicer.
> Grabbed some Samsung E-Die for my 5930k, realistically I am looking for around *3200-3300mhz C12* I think. I don't want much more, interested to see what max Mhz is though.... certain game engines love raw Mhz. Frostbite for example.
> Back in the day I had to keep these values written down or in my head (usually thend latter) in order to utilize them. Now with BIOS profiles we can just load off when we need. It's a very handy feature.
> Couldn't even imagine having that with my Pentium 200mmx or my Celeron 300a. Hehe.


3200c12 will most likely be >1.5V with tight secondaries. At least that's what I found with 32 and 64GB.


----------



## nexxusty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ah... 64GB is certainly excessive.. but I keep a 16GB ram disk loaded(loading) for some quick starts. It gets silly tho, not like starts off the Intel 750 are slow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dude - you gotta see the thru-put with octa-channel, even at 1600.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3200c12 will most likely be >1.5V with tight secondaries. At least that's what I found with 32 and 64GB.


Sounds fine to me. I was planning on pumping 1.5v into them anyway. So this is good news.

Thanks for the information/experiences.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> dude - you gotta see the thru-put with octa-channel, even at 1600.


Octa-channel







! What platform has that?? Now I know I'm behind the times!


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Octa-channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ! What platform has that?? Now I know I'm behind the times!


Think he means all 8 slots populated. X99 run's quad channel, 2 slots for each channel.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Think he means all 8 slots populated. X99 run's quad channel, 2 slots for each channel.


That's not the same and would not really gain you bandwidth as they'd share the same 4 channels into the CPU. I think he was pulling my leg ... the humanity!


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> That's not the same and would not really gain you bandwidth as they'd share the same 4 channels into the CPU. I think he was pulling my leg ... the humanity!


ahh i see


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic--i5 6600K @ 4.0Ghz/4.0Ghz---3000Mhz-Cl12-15-15-28-1T----VDIMM 1.55v---SA AUTO---HCI 450%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Octa-channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ! What platform has that?? Now I know I'm behind the times!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Think he means all 8 slots populated. X99 run's quad channel, 2 slots for each channel.


workin up a 6600K for cryo? nice!

no - true octachannel. Servers.



would be great if BW-E 10 core had a HEDT MB octach.









on a different note... the 10B test in *this* actually uses near 50GB of RAM. Nasty AVX heater tho. hot-hot-hot!!


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> no - true octachannel. Servers.
> 
> 
> 
> would be great if BW-E 10 core had a HEDT MB octach.


You got me thinking







. But according to Intel specs those Xeons are 4-channel - I think they may be referring to dual-cpu MB having separate DIMM channels for each CPU?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> You got me thinking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . But according to Intel specs those Xeons are 4-channel - I think they may be referring to dual-cpu MB having separate DIMM channels for each CPU?


it's definitely the MB layout, and yes, 2 CPUs... but the octal bandwidth is really good. It's only a matter of time. Remember that EVGA dual cpu MB?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it's definitely the MB layout, and yes, 2 CPUs... but the octal bandwidth is really good. It's only a matter of time. Remember that EVGA dual cpu MB?


For a while I was into the dual Xeons before it dawned for my non-server purposes the single CPU high-perf MBs were better (I have my old rig in the 2CPU forum), though I liked the Supermicro MBs, who btw have unbelievable customer support. I had just gotten my new SM MB and it wouldn't boot off my PCI-E Areca board - the boot sequence would ignore it, very frustrating. It was a Friday and I sent them an e-mail describing my complain.

Monday morning I was shocked to find an e-mail from them with a temporary firmware that solved the problem - it even had DJ in the name







. A couple of weeks later they released an official FW version with this and other fixes.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> For a while I was into the dual Xeons before it dawned for my non-server purposes the single CPU high-perf MBs were better (I have my old rig in the 2CPU forum), though I liked the Supermicro MBs, who btw have unbelievable customer support. I had just gotten my new SM MB and it wouldn't boot off my PCI-E Areca board - the boot sequence would ignore it, very frustrating. It was a Friday and I sent them an e-mail describing my complain.
> 
> Monday morning I was shocked to find an e-mail from them with a temporary firmware that solved the problem - it even had DJ in the name
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . A couple of weeks later they released an official FW version with this and other fixes.


yeah - that was my experience with the SM server boards we had. Good stuff, pro support.


----------



## emexci

3000 14-16-16-30 @ 1.35v


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i7-5820K @ 4.7Ghz/4.5Ghz---3200Mhz-Cl14-14-14-32-1T----VDIMM 1.38v---SA 1.06v---HCI 1000%
> 1.29vcore/1.27vring/1.98vccin standard LLC 1.89v under load /1.94v idle
> 
> 
> cl13 is slower for me since i cant get the secondaries and tertiary's as tight.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i5 6600K @ 4.0Ghz/4.0Ghz---3200Mhz-Cl15-15-15-35-1T----VDIMM 1.4v---SA AUTO---HCI 1000%


Thanks, results added


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> workin up a 6600K for cryo? nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> no - true octachannel. Servers.
> 
> 
> 
> would be great if BW-E 10 core had a HEDT MB octach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on a different note... the 10B test in *this* actually uses near 50GB of RAM. Nasty AVX heater tho. hot-hot-hot!!


Yeah just a quick test with this G.Skill Hynix MFR kit.....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks, results added


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> Yeah just a quick test with this G.Skill Hynix MFR kit.....


nice r15 score!


----------



## Silent Scone

That is! Think mine on at 4.5/4.6 is around 750. That's a nice boost. Although frankly Cinebench on anything with less than 8 cores now seems fruitless. I believe CB15 is threaded for over 20 cores. If only all things were


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That is! Think mine on at 4.5/4.6 is around 750. That's a nice boost. Although frankly Cinebench on anything with less than 8 cores now seems fruitless. I believe CB15 is threaded for over 20 cores. If only all things were


lol - my 6600K really can't run higher than 4.8.

http://hwbot.org/submission/3156623_jpmboy_cinebench___r15_core_i5_6600k_812_cb


----------



## Qwinn

I'm testing a new OC since my old 3000 Mhz one doesn't work on the new R5E 3009 bios. Instead of upping Mhz to 3000, I'm tightening timings on 2666. Good performance results, but, it can pass 7 hours of OCCT and 2 hours GSAT, yet fails at around 115% coverage in HCI memtest. Are there any particular settings that HCI is known to diagnose better than GSAT?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> I'm testing a new OC since my old 3000 Mhz one doesn't work on the new R5E 3009 bios. Instead of upping Mhz to 3000, I'm tightening timings on 2666. Good performance results, but, it can pass 7 hours of OCCT and 2 hours GSAT, yet fails at around 115% coverage in HCI memtest. Are there any particular settings that HCI is known to diagnose better than GSAT?


Unstable cache potentially, or training drift from POST to POST


----------



## Qwinn

Unstable cache actually tracks with what I've heard about this new BIOS (requires a bit more voltage but better performance). Thanks. I was at offset 0.27v which got me to 1.212v under load. Trying 0.28v which is getting me to 1.222v under load. I figure that's still safe for 24/7. Wish me luck.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Unstable cache actually tracks with what I've heard about this new BIOS (requires a bit more voltage but better performance). Thanks. I was at offset 0.27v which got me to 1.212v under load. Trying 0.28v which is getting me to 1.222v under load. I figure that's still safe for 24/7. Wish me luck.


Should be fine, although I would try to keep the OCCT barraging to a minimum.


----------



## Qwinn

I wound up posting my results on the R5E owner's thread. Short version: seems anything I do that gets me above 64500 or so read in Aida, even a mild 50% tREFI boost, or lowering tRFC at all below auto, becomes unstable in HCI memtest. 3009 increases performance to the point that any OC gets me over that speed, and nothing is stable. Rolled back to 2101 modded.

Ever heard of a performance wall like that before, and how to resolve it?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> I wound up posting my results on the R5E owner's thread. Short version: seems anything I do that gets me above 64500 or so read in Aida, even a mild 50% tREFI boost, or lowering tRFC at all below auto, becomes unstable in HCI memtest. 3009 increases performance to the point that any OC gets me over that speed, and nothing is stable. Rolled back to 2101 modded.
> 
> Ever heard of a performance wall like that before, and how to resolve it?


Hello

If both GSAT and AIDA64 cache test can be completed successfully but HCI fails this normally points to OC Socket settings not being optimized for the CPU being used.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> If both GSAT and AIDA64 cache test can be completed successfully but HCI fails this normally points to OC Socket settings not being optimized for the CPU being used.


Interesting. Can you be more specific? Is this in regards to tunable BIOS settings? Any resolution I can pursue?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Interesting. Can you be more specific? Is this in regards to tunable BIOS settings? Any resolution I can pursue?


DQ DQS and CTL settings which are CPU dependent as Praz has just mentioned. Given your experience going by your previous posts I would be inclined to suggest simply backing off with less aggressive timings


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> DQ DQS and CTL settings which are CPU dependent as Praz has just mentioned. Given your experience going by your previous posts I would be inclined to suggest simply backing off with less aggressive timings


Huh, ok, thanks, don't think I ever heard of those before, will investigate. (I assume when you guys say "CPU dependent" you mean silicon lottery rather than "specific to 5930k"). In the meantime, I just rolled back to 1902 modded, and it had made it to 700% when I left for work this morning. We'll see what I come home to. If it works, I'll just stay with it.

Based on previous testing on 1902, though, the issue I previously asked about where anything that improves read speed above where I'm at (even small improvements to tREFI, tRFC, etc.) makes the memory unstable. Still curious if that's common and if there is any particular way to attack that performance wall. Not a big deal tho, I can be happy with my OC at 1902 modded as long as I've got the stability. I know I should count myself lucky that I ever stumbled on this particular working combination at all.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Huh, ok, thanks, don't think I ever heard of those before, will investigate. (I assume when you guys say "CPU dependent" you mean silicon lottery rather than "specific to 5930k"). In the meantime, I just rolled back to 1902 modded, and it had made it to 700% when I left for work this morning. We'll see what I come home to. If it works, I'll just stay with it.
> 
> Based on previous testing on 1902, though, the issue I previously asked about where anything that improves read speed above where I'm at (even small improvements to tREFI, tRFC, etc.) makes the memory unstable. Still curious if that's common and if there is any particular way to attack that performance wall. Not a big deal tho, I can be happy with my OC at 1902 modded as long as I've got the stability. I know I should count myself lucky that I ever stumbled on this particular working combination at all.


Not silicon lottery, for the most part the board handles these settings well enough that you should not need to play with them. The disparity comes from the memory settings and rules set for the OC Socket settings that seem to work best for most cases, but are not guaranteed to work well with every individual CPU which is where adjustments can be made. These are not covered in any detail as to explain as the ideal setting requires both patience and an understanding of how these settings play off of each other, which I do not. There are only two people on this forum who do


----------



## Qwinn

So, yup, the only variable that was making me HCI unstable was moving to the 2101 and 3009 BIOS's. Still rock solid stable on 1902 modded.



Not going to bother rerunning OCCT (this OC on 1902 modded has passed 17 hours OCCT previously, no reason to think that would change). I may do a few additional tests I didn't bother to do before, though, like Aida and Realbench. Reason is, this experience has shown me that updating the BIOS is going to be a crapshoot at best, even if the new BIOS is supposed to increase performance (3009 did! But that in itself made me unstable). I'm convinced that's not going to happen with my memory OC, as I have several avenues open to me now to increase performance that *shouldn't* really affect stability under stress (like tREFI) but do so anyway - it is the increase in performance itself that causes the instability. Exceeding total bandwidth or something, I guess. So, if I'm going to settle down on 1902 modded permanently, and will no longer be tempted to try out every new BIOS the day it's released,I may as well test the crap out of it and *know* that I'm utterly stable at this point. That will help keep me from indulging in my new BIOS addiction (it's like crack!) in the future.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Huh, ok, thanks, don't think I ever heard of those before, will investigate. (I assume when you guys say "CPU dependent" you mean silicon lottery rather than "specific to 5930k"). In the meantime, I just rolled back to 1902 modded, and it had made it to 700% when I left for work this morning. We'll see what I come home to. If it works, I'll just stay with it.
> 
> Based on previous testing on 1902, though, the issue I previously asked about where anything that improves read speed above where I'm at (even small improvements to tREFI, tRFC, etc.) makes the memory unstable. Still curious if that's common and if there is any particular way to attack that performance wall. Not a big deal tho, I can be happy with my OC at 1902 modded as long as I've got the stability. I know I should count myself lucky that I ever stumbled on this particular working combination at all.


Bathroom reading for _extreme_ overclocking...

R5EOCGuide.pdf 1687k .pdf file


also - you are running 2666c15 ram at 3000c15. And If your sig is right... only 1.38V. They likely need more than 30mV over XMP.


----------



## Qwinn

Xmp voltage for this kit is 1.2v


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Xmp voltage for this kit is 1.2v


xmp or SPD voltage? nvm - those are 1.2V. single kit?


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> xmp or SPD voltage? nvm - those are 1.2V. single kit?


Yep. My screenshot a few posts up shows my CPU-Z memory and SPD pages.

I was actually able to get the kit to run at 3200 with Rampage Tweak mode 1, 15-17-17, but performance was surprisingly meh compared to my other speeds so I didn't bother testing for stability.

With my 3000 OC on modded 1902 bios, I'm getting 64k read, 67k write, 72k copy, 56.2 latency. Any variation or setting that gets read over 65k (and there's at least 5 ways I have to do it) makes it HCI Memtest unstable (yet oddly OCCT and GSAT stable).

What should my voltage roof be for 24/7 use on the DIMMs? Lower than kits rated 1.35v?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Yep. My screenshot a few posts up shows my CPU-Z memory and SPD pages.
> 
> I was actually able to get the kit to run at 3200 with Rampage Tweak mode 1, 15-17-17, but performance was surprisingly meh compared to my other speeds so I didn't bother testing for stability.
> 
> With my 3000 OC on modded 1902 bios, I'm getting 64k read, 67k write, 72k copy, 56.2 latency. Any variation or setting that gets read over 65k (and there's at least 5 ways I have to do it) makes it HCI Memtest unstable (yet oddly OCCT and GSAT stable).
> 
> What should my voltage roof be for 24/7 use on the DIMMs? Lower than kits rated 1.35v?


I'm not too familiar with the voltage sweetspot for the low-voltage ICs. Not too common on these overclocked machines... we're asking you bro!








On the 1.35V dimms, I really believe 1.5V is absolutely fine if you can keep them in a good operating temp range ... like < 40C. But I would not scale the 1.2V dimms based on that observation (across at least 7 dimm kits I've had on x99)


----------



## Qwinn

Jpmboy,

How do you monitor DIMM temps? Not finding it in Aida. HwInfo? And I had no idea temps needed to stay that low.

So far I've been using 1.38v on these mostly, with a few runs of 1.41 that seemed to go ok.

i actually think I broke the 65k wall by upping cache voltage to 1.23v. This was on 3009 modded bios, which has Aida showing way better reads than previous bioss on the r5E. I had to set CR2 to get my 3000 Mhz OC working, but it seemed stable, got past 400% HCI anyway. Seemed worth it at first because Aida benchmark was so much better on 3009 even with the downgrade to CR2. Problem is, even though Aida claimed 66500 read (64k on 1902 modded), performance in FFXIV Heavensward was no better and maybe even a little worse. Heavensward has always responded well to memory ocing before, so it seems at least some of that boosted 3009 read speed in Aida is illusory.

Edit: Found dimm temps in Hwinfo64. 8 hours into HCI Memtest at 1.38v, max dimm temp is at 41c, so I guess at least with my cooling that's my sweet spot.


----------



## emexci

but ram should handle more heat didn't it? when we consider gpu rams handle 70-90c degree.

example:

i run 32gb 4x8gb 3600mhz @ 1.35v 17-18-18-38

2 dimm = 45c max
4 dimm = 50c max

i think it is new samsung single side ic ??









i want run it like 1.4 - 1.5v at good timings but still searching for sweet spot.


----------



## Desolutional

RAM is fine up to the 80s (70s if you're squeamish), but you can get more stability at lower temps. That's probably what jpm is suggesting. My previous kit maxed out at 45C using one of those heat guns with 1.40V, so I wouldn't worry too much about temps on DDR4. Just focus on getting the voltage stable.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> RAM is fine up to the 80s (70s if you're squeamish), but you can get more stability at lower temps. That's probably what jpm is suggesting. My previous kit maxed out at 45C using one of those heat guns with 1.40V, so I wouldn't worry too much about temps on DDR4. Just focus on getting the voltage stable.


80 degrees centigrade DIMMs? Perhaps if you live near the earth's core.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Jpmboy,
> 
> How do you monitor DIMM temps? Not finding it in Aida. HwInfo? And I had no idea temps needed to stay that low.
> 
> So far I've been using 1.38v on these mostly, with a few runs of 1.41 that seemed to go ok.
> 
> i actually think I broke the 65k wall by upping cache voltage to 1.23v. This was on 3009 modded bios, which has Aida showing way better reads than previous bioss on the r5E. I had to set CR2 to get my 3000 Mhz OC working, but it seemed stable, got past 400% HCI anyway. Seemed worth it at first because Aida benchmark was so much better on 3009 even with the downgrade to CR2. Problem is, even though Aida claimed 66500 read (64k on 1902 modded), performance in FFXIV Heavensward was no better and maybe even a little worse. Heavensward has always responded well to memory ocing before, so it seems at least some of that boosted 3009 read speed in Aida is illusory.
> 
> Edit: Found dimm temps in Hwinfo64. 8 hours into HCI Memtest at 1.38v, max dimm temp is at 41c, so I guess at least with my cooling that's my sweet spot.


If HWI64 has the ram temp report, AID64 has it too. NOt all sticks have an on-board DTS. I also have a temp sensor (to a koolance controller) stuck into the ram heat sink.
Temps impact stability, and high tREFI is particularly sensitive.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emexci*
> 
> but ram should handle more heat didn't it? when we consider gpu rams handle 70-90c degree.
> example:
> i run 32gb 4x8gb 3600mhz @ 1.35v 17-18-18-38
> 2 dimm = 45c max
> 4 dimm = 50c max
> i think it is new samsung single side ic ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i want run it like 1.4 - 1.5v at good timings but still searching for sweet spot.


ram is very temp tolerant... but maybe a ram OC is not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> RAM is fine up to the 80s (70s if you're squeamish), but you can get more stability at lower temps. That's probably what jpm is suggesting. My previous kit maxed out at 45C using one of those heat guns with 1.40V, so I wouldn't worry too much about temps on DDR4. Just focus on getting the voltage stable.


^^ This
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 80 degrees centigrade DIMMs? Perhaps if you live near the earth's core.


or near an AMD Vesuvius?


----------



## Praz

Hello

Memory testing should be done as near as possible with the ambient conditions expected for normal use. Memory stability is affected by temperature in more ways than the couple of settings that have been previously mentioned. Once full stability is achieved a bit of headroom is needed for any changes in operating temperatures that wold have a negative impact.


----------



## MR-e

This seems the best I can do with this 5960X/GSKILL TZ kit - can't for the life of me get 13-13-13 stable under air conditions. Not sure if it's the IMC or Ram or WS board :S

HCI Stable overnight and got to 590% but I forgot to take a screen when I restarted, d'oh








Will do another HCI run on Monday overnight + work to get to 1000%

Not sure how you guys are breaking 80000 reads


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> This seems the best I can do with this 5960X/GSKILL TZ kit. Not sure if it's the IMC or Ram or WS board :S
> 
> HCI Stable overnight and got to 590% but I forgot to take a screen when I restarted, d'oh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will do another HCI run on Monday overnight + work to get to 1000%
> 
> Not sure how you guys are breaking 80000 reads


is there something running while that snip was taken? That CPU is idling at >>40C?


----------



## MR-e

I'm doing all benches/tests on air right now with a NH-D15S before I put the water loop together. That must've been from when I was doing RealBench/Aida Stress tests before running the memory and didn't let the cpu cool down.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> I'm doing all benches/tests on air right now with a NH-D15S before I put the water loop together. That must've been from when I was doing RealBench/Aida Stress tests before running the memory and didn't let the cpu cool down.


Hello

All reported temps are high.


----------



## Silent Scone

Edit: Just seen you are on air, as Praz has mentioned already the temperatures are fairly high for idle


----------



## donmega1

Just so I don't have to sift through this whole thread, can anyone give me the top 2 best ram to get for the 6700k which I want to overclock. I want to get 32gb at least.


----------



## johnd0e

Trident z


----------



## Silent Scone

Looks like GSKILL have binned this little number. First I've seen of them pairing these together. May pick up a set for BWE

http://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q2-64gtz


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Looks like GSKILL have binned this little number. First I've seen of them pairing these together. May pick up a set for BWE
> 
> http://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q2-64gtz


yup, that's a good 8-stick 64GB kit... on this x99 right now!


----------



## Silent Scone

ffs, you've got some sort of problem.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> All reported temps are high.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Edit: Just seen you are on air, as Praz has mentioned already the temperatures are fairly high for idle


Yep you guys are right, ambient 28 with a low rpm profile on the fan right now to keep my ears from bleeding.









I probably shouldn't let it get this warm, but it'll be resolved once the build is under water.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> ffs, you've got some sort of problem.


no will power, or as Menthol puts it" "less brains than money"


----------



## emexci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Looks like GSKILL have binned this little number. First I've seen of them pairing these together. May pick up a set for BWE
> 
> http://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q2-64gtz


I have similar ram setup here. ripjaws v 4x8gb 3000-14-14-14-34 jan2016 samsung b die most proably.
on m8 hero i can up to 3733mhz but thats it. System won't start with 3866mhz or more no matter which timing, volts.
still not found a sweetspot for it







only succesfull test is 3600-15-18-18-35 @ 1.5v


----------



## MR-e

Guys can I get some advice on locking down my memory OC? I'm hitting a brick wall in HCI Memtest once I get around 600~700% an error pops up. Cold boots/warm boots pass training and no bd q-codes and always makes it into windows. I think I'm very close but need a helping hand to get 1000% stable. Please and Thank You









Edit - I was running on the new 3004 X99-E WS bios for the BW-E chips when I error out at 700%, I just reloaded the 2006 bios (Pre BW-E) this morning and did another run to see if BIOS makes any difference. Hopeful to find no errors when I'm off work.

Bios:

CPU Adaptive 1.34V
Cache Offset +.295
VCCSA Offset + .195
I/O's both 1.0750
Training Voltage 1.43
Eventual Voltage 1.42

Timings:


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emexci*
> 
> I have similar ram setup here. ripjaws v 4x8gb 3000-14-14-14-34 jan2016 samsung b die most proably.
> on m8 hero i can up to 3733mhz but thats it. System won't start with 3866mhz or more no matter which timing, volts.
> still not found a sweetspot for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only succesfull test is 3600-15-18-18-35 @ 1.5v


I don;t think the RJ 3000c14 are b-die. 3200c14 are for sure.


----------



## johnd0e

So what seems to be the best 2x8 kit of TZ to go with?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnd0e*
> 
> So what seems to be the best 2x8 kit of TZ to go with?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232268


----------



## tistou77

G.Skill releases new Kits Trident-Z 3200 13-13-13-33 at 1.35v
Available in June normally


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> G.Skill releases new Kits Trident-Z 3200 13-13-13-33 at 1.35v
> Available in June normally


Also 3466 at 14-14-14-34. Should be some nice kits!


----------



## tistou77

Hoping that with Broadwell-E, we can have frequencies above 3200mhz in h24 (strap 100)


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> G.Skill releases new Kits Trident-Z 3200 13-13-13-33 at 1.35v
> Available in June normally


Where do you see this?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Where do you see this?


In French

http://www.comptoir-hardware.com/actus/ram/31554-gskill-pousse-sa-ddr4-trident-z-a-4266mhz-cl19.html


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> In French
> 
> http://www.comptoir-hardware.com/actus/ram/31554-gskill-pousse-sa-ddr4-trident-z-a-4266mhz-cl19.html


Hmm wonder why g.skill is not listing it?

http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-introduces-5-new-color-schemes-to-trident-z-series-ddr4-memory

unless this was just announced today or something... idk


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Hmm wonder why g.skill is not listing it?
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-introduces-5-new-color-schemes-to-trident-z-series-ddr4-memory
> 
> unless this was just announced today or something... idk


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/gskill-low-latency-trident-ddr4,31815.html


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Hmm wonder why g.skill is not listing it?
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-introduces-5-new-color-schemes-to-trident-z-series-ddr4-memory
> 
> unless this was just announced today or something... idk


Hello

Based on the 3600 CAS15 kits I have I would think the 3200 and 3466 kits are either the same or didn't quite make the cut for 3600.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Hoping that with Broadwell-E, we can have frequencies above 3200mhz in h24 (strap 100)


Not it won't.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Not it won't.


Source ?









What is the interest of Broadwell-E then ?
Except that heaters can be a little less, the first return of OC are not extraordinary


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Source ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the interest of Broadwell-E then ?
> Except that heaters can be a little less, the first return of OC are not extraordinary


Not much except higher bench scores.

Here's another kicker, OC socket will not work. Or atleast doesn't till now.

So get ready for low cache clocks to go in hand with low core clock. 4.3Ghz on core should be the norm.


----------



## Awsan

So i bought this kit from corsair CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 and its not stable at XMP i even tried settings the clocks and timing manually and still its not stable so whatsup with that ??

It's stable at stock ,Everything is stock on the mobo so no overclock and for the argument's sake i even tried setting it at 3000mhz with higher timing and higher volts and still its not stable.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Hoping that with Broadwell-E, we can have frequencies above 3200mhz in h24 (strap 100)


We got them now ...


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> We got them now ...


With strap/bclk 100 (as 3466, 3733 for example)


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> With strap/bclk 100 (as 3466, 3733 for example)


I am using strap 100 and bclk 104.5, and 3344 is > 3200 last time I checked









But yeah, I can't go over 3400


----------



## lilchronic

Try 125 Strap and 104bclk


----------



## djgar

@lilchronic Wow, if you get that with long term stability you got the Golden IMC award







.

I can't get mine to go there with any substantial stability, with either strap.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Try 125 Strap and 104bclk


DMI frequency must "explode" with it


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> @lilchronic Wow, if you get that with long term stability you got the Golden IMC award
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I can't get mine to go there with any substantial stability.


Im not sure if stable or not. I did try a while ago for 3466Mhz but failed hci around 450% with 1.4v after that i just went back to 3200Mhz

The pic above was with 1.420v VDIMM


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Not much except higher bench scores.
> 
> Here's another kicker, *OC socket will not work*. Or atleast doesn't till now.
> 
> So get ready for low cache clocks to go in hand with low core clock. 4.3Ghz on core should be the norm.


I'm hoping this is an ES peculiarity?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> We got them now ...












You've been running a high peg/dmi for a long time now! Good stuff!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Guys can I get some advice on locking down my memory OC? I'm hitting a brick wall in HCI Memtest once I get around 600~700% an error pops up. Cold boots/warm boots pass training and no bd q-codes and always makes it into windows. I think I'm very close but need a helping hand to get 1000% stable. Please and Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit - I was running on the new 3004 X99-E WS bios for the BW-E chips when I error out at 700%, I just reloaded the 2006 bios (Pre BW-E) this morning and did another run to see if BIOS makes any difference. Hopeful to find no errors when I'm off work.
> 
> Bios:
> 
> CPU Adaptive 1.34V
> Cache Offset +.295
> VCCSA Offset + .195
> I/O's both 1.0750
> Training Voltage 1.43
> Eventual Voltage 1.42
> 
> Timings:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


First.. are these timings and voltage stable when tested with GSAT? It's really good to use this to "deconvolute" cache etc from ram. If it is GSAT stable, try adding vcache. Worst scenario is to loosen some of the 2nd and 3rd timings a bit. NOt all kits/IMCs can run FAW that low, or tREFI that high... There's no magic when you get timings that tight... it's really trial and error at the liomit - which I really think that ram is at.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> You've been running a high peg/dmi for a long time now! Good stuff!


This can be really system dependant, some GPU do not like the increments at all, others might be ok with higher than most


----------



## tistou77

With 5930K, for the Vcache (h24) what's the max voltage is OK ?


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> With 5930K, for the Vcache (h24) what's the max voltage is OK ?


Stay below 1.20V to ensure longevity. I haven't had issues with 1.25V, but I know one person who ruined their chip at 1.30V IIRC. Issues with 1.30V+ degradation seemed to pop up around 3 to 4 months after setting the OC, so I'd assume 1.25V is a good stopping point - regardless of how far you want to push (better safe than sorry).


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> With 5930K, for the Vcache (h24) what's the max voltage is OK ?


I wouldn't go over 1.25, and even that I'd only do with offset voltage or c states to keep it lower at idle.


----------



## Jpmboy

Yeah, cache voltage seems to be the weak link on Haswell-E. Certainly run below 1.3 for 24/7, and preferably <1.275V.


----------



## tistou77

Ok thanks









I tested the new 3101 bios for R5E, but my OC is not stable (Uncore is more aggressive than 2101) best bandwidth with Aida64
Back at 2101


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Ok thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tested the new 3101 bios for R5E, but my OC is not stable (Uncore is more aggressive than 2101) best bandwidth with Aida64
> Back at 2101


I saw the better results in Aida under 3101, but I don't trust them. I usually test my real world performance with FFXIV Heavensward benchmark. It's usually decent at responding to memory and cache overclocks, but in the case of the significantly higher read speed I got under 3101, it wasn't reflected in my Heavensward score. I asked around to see if anyone else could replicate that since my OCs have been wonky lately, haven't seen any other results yet though.

Edit: sorry! I meant 3009. Haven't tried 3101 yet.


----------



## Qwinn

Incidentally, my memory overclock which was posted to the OP is sadly not stable. It did genuinely pass 1200% HCI but it failed OCCT 4.4.2, plus some other indicators like only being stable on a specific BIOS. Raising the command rate back to 2T seems to have sorted it, and I will repost results to replace my current entry when done testing. I could probably get the original one stable with more memory voltage, but I'm hesitant to go over 1.38v for long term use given this kit is rated at 1.2v.


----------



## Silent Scone

Just as well it wasn't a valid entry


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just as well it wasn't a valid entry


How come? I mess something up? I noted you didn't list my vinput, though I did mention it in my post (1.92v).


----------



## Silent Scone

I can't recall now. I think somewhere between you posting a continuation on the result and then flashing back after realising it wasn't stable. I simply lost track so posted the above comment on impulse lol


----------



## Qwinn

Heh, yeah, sorry. Talk about minor instability, it took the new version of OCCT to actually make it throw errors. Passed anything else with flying colors (putting aside the 0% power plan debacle, of course). Still, toning it down a tad seems to be working well, even on BIOS other than 1902 modded (testing 2101 modded now). I may even give the unmodded BIOS' s another try (gasp!), though I suspect that still won't work, seems to be more of an uncore issue there.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> First.. are these timings and voltage stable when tested with GSAT? It's really good to use this to "deconvolute" cache etc from ram. If it is GSAT stable, try adding vcache. Worst scenario is to loosen some of the 2nd and 3rd timings a bit. NOt all kits/IMCs can run FAW that low, or tREFI that high... There's no magic when you get timings that tight... it's really trial and error at the liomit - which I really think that ram is at.


Thanks JP, I realize now that I overlooked vcache when initially started the HCI test runs. I was under the assumption that a default value with cache and core multi's on auto would be sufficient with the voltages used to isolate the test to memory only. I upped the cache a little bit to give'r some juice but in the end the test still failed, this time sooner at the 400%. At this point, I'm going to start relaxing timings so I can lower the voltages across the board as they're starting to get out of my comfort zone.

Not sure if it's the board that can't handle high memory clocks due to it being targeted towards the Workstation Environment where max clocks are not priority. Or if the mem chips are just total duds (can't even do 13-13-13-35 1T with all 2nd/3rd timings on auto). Or if my 4.7GHz binned 5960X just has a weak IMC compared to the Core clocks.

Side note - any idea why TurboV Core keeps asking me to install the IMEI driver from the install disk? I've installed it and updated it already and it shows up in device manager as running. I checked services.msc and the Intel Management is running as well


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This can be really system dependant, some GPU do not like the increments at all, others might be ok with higher than most


My GPU configuration is definitely on the lame side


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Thanks JP, I realize now that I overlooked vcache when initially started the HCI test runs. I was under the assumption that a default value with cache and core multi's on auto would be sufficient with the voltages used to isolate the test to memory only. I upped the cache a little bit to give'r some juice but in the end the test still failed, this time sooner at the 400%. At this point, I'm going to start relaxing timings so I can lower the voltages across the board as they're starting to get out of my comfort zone.
> 
> Not sure if it's the board that can't handle high memory clocks due to it being targeted towards the Workstation Environment where max clocks are not priority. Or if the mem chips are just total duds (can't even do 13-13-13-35 1T with all 2nd/3rd timings on auto). Or if my 4.7GHz binned 5960X just has a weak IMC compared to the Core clocks.
> 
> Side note - any idea why TurboV Core keeps asking me to install the IMEI driver from the install disk? I've installed it and updated it already and it shows up in device manager as running. I checked services.msc and the Intel Management is running as well


be sure to use TV version 1.00.37. This one works on the R5E at least.

So when you OC ram.. and certainly when running very tight timings as you are - that is an overclock situation and I wouold not expect all stock voltages to the CPU/CACHE/VCCIO and VSA to be sufficient. Honestly, it's not unusual that after locking down a core/cache OC on this any most anyt platform, you will need to "fine tune" voltages as you bring up ram freq and tighten ram timings.

Try setting a solid core and cache OC... add a few Mv to each once done. Then do the ram.. you'll likely need to tweak core/cache as you work the ram.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> be sure to use TV version 1.00.37. This one works on the R5E at least.
> 
> So when you OC ram.. and certainly when running very tight timings as you are - that is an overclock situation and I wouold not expect all stock voltages to the CPU/CACHE/VCCIO and VSA to be sufficient. Honestly, it's not unusual that after locking down a core/cache OC on this any most anyt platform, you will need to "fine tune" voltages as you bring up ram freq and tighten ram timings.
> 
> Try setting a solid core and cache OC... add a few Mv to each once done. Then do the ram.. you'll likely need to tweak core/cache as you work the ram.


Opps, my intent was to state that I set a hefty vcore (1.345) /vcache (1.25) /vccio (1.075) /vccsa (1.025) while leaving the Core/Cache clocks at default to rule out Core/Cache instability while trying to get my ram oc stable. I'll give TurboV .37 a try as the one I have installed was taken from the first page of the RVE thread is .30. Thx


----------



## Jpmboy

can't attach it here - zip file is too large.


----------



## MR-e

I found TurboV 1.00.37 on Asus's old P5Q board... safe to use on x99?

https://www.asus.com/support/Download/1/22/60/18/c19zNYHCAXhCqBPq/30/


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> can't attach it here - zip file is too large.


Google Drive? It does seem odd that TurboVcore is tricky to get hold of, especially seeing as it's an official ASUS app.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> I found TurboV 1.00.37 on Asus's old P5Q board... safe to use on x99?
> 
> https://www.asus.com/support/Download/1/22/60/18/c19zNYHCAXhCqBPq/30/


it's the one I'm using on this R5E.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> So i bought this kit from corsair CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 and its not stable at XMP i even tried settings the clocks and timing manually and still its not stable so whatsup with that ??
> 
> It's stable at stock ,Everything is stock on the mobo so no overclock and for the argument's sake i even tried setting it at 3000mhz with higher timing and higher volts and still its not stable.


So no one at all have any info about this????


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> So no one at all have any info about this????


How many sets of that 2 x 8 kit did you buy and install?


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> So no one at all have any info about this????
> 
> 
> 
> How many sets of that 2 x 8 kit did you buy and install?
Click to expand...

It's an ITX mobo so only one set.


----------



## done12many2

When you set XMP, is your voltage automatically changing?


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> When you set XMP, is your voltage automatically changing?


yes to 1.35


----------



## done12many2

To be honest, if your voltage is correct and you've even relaxed things trying to get it to work, you're chip may just not get along with 3200 MHz too well. You can try adding a bit more voltage to see if you can get it to post at XMP settings.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> To be honest, if your voltage is correct and you've even relaxed things trying to get it to work, you're chip may just not get along with 3200 MHz too well. You can try adding a bit more voltage to see if you can get it to post at XMP settings.


It posts at 3200mhz but not stable at all, i even tried 3000mhz


----------



## done12many2

Out of ignorance, I went through a phase of blaming my board for a lot of my early DDR4/XMP issues when the board had nothing to do with it. Neither did my CPU. In my case it boiled down to the quality of the memory.

Have you tried a different set/type of memory?

I wish I could help more, but I'm not nearly as good as some of these guys.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Out of ignorance, I went through a phase of blaming my board for a lot of my early DDR4/XMP issues when the board had nothing to do with it. Neither did my CPU. In my case it boiled down to the quality of the memory.
> 
> Have you tried a different set/type of memory?
> 
> I wish I could help more, but I'm not nearly as good as some of these guys.


I am 1000000% blaming the memory as i am not the first one to mention this but just wanted to check if there is any kind of fix for this.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> I am 1000000% blaming the memory as i am not the first one to mention this but just wanted to check if there is any kind of fix for this.


Have you seen any improvement in swapping DIMM slots?


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> I am 1000000% blaming the memory as i am not the first one to mention this but just wanted to check if there is any kind of fix for this.


I know you said you're not overclocking but other than xmp, your BIOS is at all default settings? No.other changes? Does.setting xmp set you to 125 strap or still 100?


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> I am 1000000% blaming the memory as i am not the first one to mention this but just wanted to check if there is any kind of fix for this.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you said you're not overclocking but other than xmp, your BIOS is at all default settings? No.other changes? Does.setting xmp set you to 125 strap or still 100?
Click to expand...

Everything is 100% stock, and its at 100


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> I am 1000000% blaming the memory as i am not the first one to mention this but just wanted to check if there is any kind of fix for this.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Have you seen any improvement in swapping DIMM slots?


Should I take that as a no?


----------



## Qwinn

If you can make the memory throw an error in a few passes of memtest86+ booting off a dvd, I wouldn't waste one more second trying to diagnose or fix it, just RMA it as the memory is just bad.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> If you can make the memory throw an error in a few passes of memtest86+ booting off a dvd, I wouldn't waste one more second trying to diagnose or fix it, just RMA it as the memory is just bad.


^^This. RMA. RMA even if the XMP timings require higher voltage to maintain stability


----------



## Qwinn

Okay, here's the new OC. Please replace my old one with this:

Qwinn--i5930K @4.4/4.2---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-2T----1.38v---SA 0.880v---HCI 1350%

Input voltage - 1.92v LLC7.



Now here's the cool thing. Even though I decreased the OC from 1T to 2T on the command rate, by moving to BIOS 3101, I've gone from this:



...to this:



It's not just read speed, L3 speeds and latency seem a bit higher too.

Also passed 8 hours OCCT 4.4.2, for the record.


----------



## djgar

Damn, that's interesting! Now I'm going to have to try something similar!


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Okay, here's the new OC. Please replace my old one with this:
> 
> Qwinn--i5930K @4.4/4.2---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-2T----1.38v---SA 0.880v---HCI 1350%
> 
> Input voltage - 1.92v LLC7.
> 
> 
> 
> Now here's the cool thing. Even though I decreased the OC from 1T to 2T on the command rate, by moving to BIOS 3101, I've gone from this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...to this:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just read speed, L3 speeds and latency seem a bit higher too.
> 
> Also passed 8 hours OCCT 4.4.2, for the record.


Did your CPU and cache clock speeds change between those or is AIDA reporting that incorrectly?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Okay, here's the new OC. Please replace my old one with this:
> 
> Qwinn--i5930K @4.4/4.2---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-2T----1.38v---SA 0.880v---HCI 1350%
> 
> Input voltage - 1.92v LLC7.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now here's the cool thing. Even though I decreased the OC from 1T to 2T on the command rate, by moving to BIOS 3101, I've gone from this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just read speed, L3 speeds and latency seem a bit higher too.
> 
> Also passed 8 hours OCCT 4.4.2, for the record.


nice - 2666c15 at 3000c15.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Did your CPU and cache clock speeds change between those or is AIDA reporting that incorrectly?


It's 4.4 core 4.2 cache in both, it's just adaptive/offset so they were sometimes downclocked when I started the benchmark.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> It's 4.4 core 4.2 cache in both, it's just adaptive/offset so they were sometimes downclocked when I started the benchmark.


Got it. Thanks


----------



## lilchronic

Was looking at the charts in the op and the timings listed are not the same as i posted for skylake 8GB.
@Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i5 6600K @ 4.0Ghz/4.0Ghz---3200Mhz-Cl15-15-15-35-1T----VDIMM 1.4v---SA AUTO---HCI 1000%


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> It's 4.4 core 4.2 cache in both, it's just adaptive/offset so they were sometimes downclocked when I started the benchmark.


Well, didn't work for me.I got somewhat lower memory speeds with T2 than T1.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Well, didn't work for me.I got somewhat lower memory speeds with T2 than T1.


That's normal. It's moving from a pre-3000 bios to 3101 that more than compensates for it. I didn't switch to T2 for performance, I moved to it for sufficient stability to be able to run stable on 3101.

Note: those bios numbers are for the rve, I don't know about the x99-a.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> That's normal. It's moving from a pre-3000 bios to 3101 that more than compensates for it. I didn't switch to T2 for performance, I moved to it for sufficient stability to be able to run stable on 3101.
> 
> Note: those bios numbers are for the rve, I don't know about the x99-a.


What I was referring to is that you gained memory speed going from pre-3101 @ T1 to 3101 @ T2. I didn't.







.

But I can run stable same timings @ T1 with 3101.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> What I was referring to is that you gained memory speed going from pre-3101 @ T1 to 3101 @ T2. I didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> But I can run stable same timings @ T1 with 3101.


Cool. Does *that* get you better timings in Aida?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Cool. Does *that* get you better timings in Aida?


In AIDA I get better timings with T1 than T2 in same BIOS (expected), but T1 in 2101 is faster than T1 or T2 in 3101 (same timings, BCLK and cache).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Was looking at the charts in the op and the timings listed are not the same as i posted for skylake 8GB.
> @Silent Scone


Oops, corrected


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Okay, here's the new OC. Please replace my old one with this:
> 
> Qwinn--i5930K @4.4/4.2---3000Mhz-C15-15-15-35-2T----1.38v---SA 0.880v---HCI 1350%
> 
> Input voltage - 1.92v LLC7.
> 
> 
> 
> Now here's the cool thing. Even though I decreased the OC from 1T to 2T on the command rate, by moving to BIOS 3101, I've gone from this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...to this:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just read speed, L3 speeds and latency seem a bit higher too.
> 
> Also passed 8 hours OCCT 4.4.2, for the record.


Well within the margins for each run, would not fixate on this benchmark too much. There isn't anything interesting here besides what you'd expect between runs and higher latency from a higher command rate. In short, stranger things have happened at sea.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> I am 1000000% blaming the memory as i am not the first one to mention this but just wanted to check if there is any kind of fix for this.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Have you seen any improvement in swapping DIMM slots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Should I take that as a no?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just saw that







will try as soon as i go home.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> If you can make the memory throw an error in a few passes of memtest86+ booting off a dvd, I wouldn't waste one more second trying to diagnose or fix it, just RMA it as the memory is just bad.


thats the plan for now







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> If you can make the memory throw an error in a few passes of memtest86+ booting off a dvd, I wouldn't waste one more second trying to diagnose or fix it, just RMA it as the memory is just bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^This. RMA. RMA even if the XMP timings require higher voltage to maintain stability
Click to expand...

if nothing works looks like i have no choice


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Well within the margins for each run, would not fixate on this benchmark too much. There isn't anything interesting here besides what you'd expect between runs and higher latency from a higher command rate. In short, stranger things have happened at sea.


Have to disagree, sir. I'd hardly post all that after one run on each setup. I ran it hundreds of times with both bios. The average read is up well over 2k. Normal variation from run to run under a given setup is rarely ever more than 500 or so. The 2 screenshots above are really the best I could get under each setup. Don't think I ever had read under 1902 or 2101 go over 64500, absolute max, even with the 1T command rate. Remember me talking about my 65k read wall?

Besides, lots of others are reporting similar results under the new bios. Djgar is the first I've seen to report otherwise, tho he is on a different mb.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Have to disagree, sir. I'd hardly post all that after one run on each setup. I ran it hundreds of times with both bios. The average read is up well over 2k. Normal variation from run to run under a given setup is rarely ever more than 500 or so. The 2 screenshots above are really the best I could get under each setup. Don't think I ever had read under 1902 or 2101 go over 64500, absolute max, even with the 1T command rate. Remember me talking about my 65k read wall?
> 
> Besides, lots of others are reporting similar results under the new bios. Djgar is the first I've seen to report otherwise, tho he is on a different mb.


I think the problem is you don't understand what it is you are disagreeing with, which is why I suggested not getting hung up with the benchmark. Namely so not to read another post from you when there is another update to some of the rules in the UEFI when you're concerned with why the performance isn't the same


----------



## Blameless

If run on a clean system with nothing going on in the background, the variance for the ADIA64 cachemem should be less than +-0.5%.

Anyway, it's perfectly possible for new firmware to improve memory performance, but it's usually going to do so by altering memory timings. If you go from T1 to T2 command rate and gain performance, I'd check all the subtimings to see if they are the same, as well as core/uncore clocks. If nothing at all changed here, then that leaves memory training (trained memory will perform better); "fast boot" type options usually skip memory training steps, so if you were using fast boot before and aren't now, that could be where the difference is coming from.

If neither clocks, nor timings (other than command rate), nor training changed between those runs, I'd suspect a less than perfectly idle system to be responsible...but it's not entirely out of the question that the firmware (or more specifically some hidden timing that isn't revealed in memtweakit, or the like) in and of itself is the cause.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I think the problem is you don't understand what it is you are disagreeing with, which is why I suggested not getting hung up with the benchmark. Namely so not to read another post from you when there is another update to some of the rules in the UEFI when you're concerned with why the performance isn't the same


Actually, I'm the one who posted an assertion, you're the one who's disagreeing with it, and it appears you are the one who doesn't understand what you're disagreeing with. I am not "concerned" about why performance isn't the same, I'm confirming that there's a definite improvement with the new 3000+ BIOS, as many many others have reported.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> If run on a clean system with nothing going on in the background, the variance for the ADIA64 cachemem should be less than +-0.5%.
> 
> Anyway, it's perfectly possible for new firmware to improve memory performance, but it's usually going to do so by altering memory timings. If you go from T1 to T2 command rate and gain performance, I'd check all the subtimings to see if they are the same, as well as core/uncore clocks. If nothing at all changed here, then that leaves memory training (trained memory will perform better); "fast boot" type options usually skip memory training steps, so if you were using fast boot before and aren't now, that could be where the difference is coming from.
> 
> If neither clocks, nor timings (other than command rate), nor training changed between those runs, I'd suspect a less than perfectly idle system to be responsible...but it's not entirely out of the question that the firmware (or more specifically some hidden timing that isn't revealed in memtweakit, or the like) in and of itself is the cause.


All settings both for memory and all other BIOS settings (fast boot, etc.) aside from the command rate are in fact identical. Primary, secondary and third timings were hard-set under both BIOS. The remaining ones were/are all set to Auto.

People have been reporting higher Aida bench scores and faster performance since the 3008 beta bios on the RVE. I've seen it described as a "more aggressive uncore" over at the win-raid forums. I'm not even close to being alone in this.

Example:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1510001/asus-rampage-v-extreme-owners-thread/9240#post_25177988


----------



## Desolutional

GSAT provides a "transfer rate" too? Is that a reliable figure to use?


----------



## Qwinn

Just for clarification - I also ran with 2T under the old bios. When I did that, reads were about 63k, which is 1k less than I was getting with 1T. I posted the comparison of 1T to 2T to demonstrate that the gain in the 3101 BIOS more than compensates for it. In an apples to apples comparison of 2T to 2T, 3101 raises reads by about 3k. Running under 1T under the old BIOS improved reads by about 1k. That is why, in the comparison I posted, the change is only 2k.

To summarize:
1T -> 2T on same BIOS: reads drop by about 1k
2101 -> 3101, both at 2T: reads are higher by about 3k
2101 at 1T -> 3101 at 2T: reads are higher by about 2k, which makes sense given the two previous results.

Also, Heavensward benchmark scores confirm a slight gain in performance going from 2101 at 1T -> 3101 at 2T, though perhaps not as much as you might expect from 2k more reads. I would guess the worse latency is what's taking the edge off there, but the Heavensward numbers are still better.

Actually, the funny thing is you can find older posts by me where I was speculating that the higher Aida scores I got with bios 3009 were an illusion not really representing improved performance. Further testing has convinced me that they are not an illusion, and the improvement in performance is real.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> GSAT provides a "transfer rate" too? Is that a reliable figure to use?


The numbers are highly repeatable, so yes.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Actually, I'm the one who posted an assertion, you're the one who's disagreeing with it, and it appears you are the one who doesn't understand what you're disagreeing with. I am not "concerned" about why performance isn't the same, I'm confirming that there's a definite improvement with the new 3000+ BIOS, as many many others have reported.
> All settings both for memory and all other BIOS settings (fast boot, etc.) aside from the command rate are in fact identical. Primary, secondary and third timings were hard-set under both BIOS. The remaining ones were/are all set to Auto.


If I rephrase then - if I had a penny for every time somebody noticed an improvement or disparity in memory performance between builds. The fact remains you shouldn't be too hung up on the benchmark results once stability is cemented


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If I rephrase then - if I had a penny for every time somebody noticed an improvement or disparity in memory performance between builds.


Okay fine. When it's confirmed, will you apologize for your condescension?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Okay fine. When it's confirmed, will you apologize for your condescension?


If it means you don't ask me to amend your existing overclock results again I'll consider it


----------



## Qwinn

I've asked you to amend it *once*. Which you still haven't done.

And since that's enough to engender complaint from you, feel free to take me off the list altogether.


----------



## Jpmboy

C'mon guys.


----------



## djgar

GROUP HUG!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> GROUP HUG!!!


Sometimes you have to be a bit forthright to stop someone from rambling to themselves and ignoring advice given. Beating around the bush doesn't work in those scenarios lol

http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-trident-z-ddr4-4266mhz-16gb--8gbx2--1-35v-extreme-speed-memory-kit

I'd guess that JP has ordered a set already









Worth pointing out that currently the TZ kits beyond 4133 seem to be only have certified listings for the Impact.


----------



## QuantumX

Hi guys,

I have 32GB (4x8GB) G.Skill TridentZ RAM, rated for 3600MHz CL17.

I currently have them running 3333MHz with 15-15-15-35 1T 450 timings since I have instability issues at anything higher than that. XMP speeds work fine with only two modules installed but when all 4 is installed the system struggles even to boot at the XMP speeds.

My motherboard is a MSi Z170 XPOWER TE. I've raised the SA and IO volts to 1.3 and 1.35v respectively, since this seems like the IMC is struggling to run high speed with 32GB.

On the current 3333MHz CL15 settings the system is gaming and stress test stable but fails memtest usually after 20%. I've tested 3200MHz CL14 to be 100% stable with memtest, again it seems like the IMC is struggling.

So my question is, should I raise CPU SA and IO volts more to get 3333 CL15 100% stable? And which one of these are more important on Skylake for getting higher mem frequency?


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> GROUP HUG!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes you have to be a bit forthright to stop someone from rambling to themselves and ignoring advice given. Beating around the bush doesn't work in those scenarios lol
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-trident-z-ddr4-4266mhz-16gb--8gbx2--1-35v-extreme-speed-memory-kit
> 
> I'd guess that JP has ordered a set already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Worth pointing out that currently the TZ kits beyond 4133 seem to be only have certified listings for the Impact.
Click to expand...

Funny enough that my impact is crashing with my 3200 memory (Although its the memory's fault)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> Funny enough that my impact is crashing with my 3200 memory (Although its the memory's fault)


You'd need to be more specific but from that post, it sounds as though you're having difficulties running at XMP profile. The system agent and IO voltages may need to be adjusted, but would need more info including the kit you are using. The Impact VIII is a beast with memory, but some CPU may require tuning even at 3200 speeds.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I have 32GB (4x8GB) G.Skill TridentZ RAM, rated for 3600MHz CL17.
> 
> I currently have them running 3333MHz with 15-15-15-35 1T 450 timings since I have instability issues at anything higher than that. XMP speeds work fine with only two modules installed but when all 4 is installed the system struggles even to boot at the XMP speeds.
> 
> My motherboard is a MSi Z170 XPOWER TE. I've raised the SA and IO volts to 1.3 and 1.35v respectively, since this seems like the IMC is struggling to run high speed with 32GB.
> 
> On the current 3333MHz CL15 settings the system is gaming and stress test stable but fails memtest usually after 20%. I've tested 3200MHz CL14 to be 100% stable with memtest, again it seems like the IMC is struggling.
> 
> So my question is, should I raise CPU SA and IO volts more to get 3333 CL15 100% stable? And which one of these are more important on Skylake for getting higher mem frequency?


Similar story most likely to the above. Speeds above this may require you to adjust the SA and IO voltages. Are you testing with HCI Memtest or Memtest86? Please test again with HCI Memtest, or with Google Stress App and let us know what the outcome is. 4 sticks on that board at that density and speed might be slightly tricky.


----------



## QuantumX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Are you testing with HCI Memtest or Memtest86? Please test again with HCI Memtest, or with Google Stress App and let us know what the outcome is. 4 sticks on that board at that density and speed might be slightly tricky.


I was using HCI Memtest.

SA and IO volts have already been increased to 1.3v and 1.35v so I wanted to know which one might help more for stability in this situation, and if it needs to be increased even more. Would be nice if someone could explain what the IO and SA voltages are for and what would be the limits for 24/7 use

I don't like increasing voltages blindly when I don't know what they are for


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> I was using HCI Memtest.
> 
> SA and IO volts have already been increased to 1.3v and 1.35v so I wanted to know which one might help more for stability in this situation, and if it needs to be increased even more. Would be nice if someone could explain what the IO and SA voltages are for and what would be the limits for 24/7 use
> 
> I don't like increasing voltages blindly when I don't know what they are for


I've no experience with that board. ASUS T-topology layout makes using the memory configuration you're using easier. Both voltages are important in terms of memory overclocking. No more than 1.3v should be necessary, nor would i recommend exceeding that long term.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> I was using HCI Memtest.
> 
> SA and IO volts have already been increased to 1.3v and 1.35v so I wanted to know which one might help more for stability in this situation, and if it needs to be increased even more. Would be nice if someone could explain what the IO and SA voltages are for and what would be the limits for 24/7 use
> 
> I don't like increasing voltages blindly when I don't know what they are for


VCCSA of 1.3 seems on the high side, at least for Asus X99 boards which might be different. I've found at least for X99 that more is not always better, and sweet spot may not be that large sometimes ~ .05v.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> VCCSA of 1.3 seems on the high side, at least for Asus X99 boards which might be different. I've found at least for X99 that more is not always better, and sweet spot may not be that large sometimes ~ .05v.


Non OC socket boards sometimes need these sorts of amounts on X99 to compensate. However it's best not to compare these things across different platforms / architectures anyway


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Non OC socket boards sometimes need these sorts of amounts on X99 to compensate. However it's best not to compare these things across different platforms / architectures anyway


Indeed, hence my specific references, but always good to keep in mind!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sometimes you have to be a bit forthright to stop someone from rambling to themselves and ignoring advice given. Beating around the bush doesn't work in those scenarios lol
> http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-trident-z-ddr4-4266mhz-16gb--8gbx2--1-35v-extreme-speed-memory-kit
> *I'd guess that JP has ordered a set already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Worth pointing out that currently the TZ kits beyond 4133 seem to be only have certified listings for the Impact.


Nah.. holding back money that I won't spend on 1080s









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> VCCSA of 1.3 seems on the high side, at least for Asus X99 boards which might be different. I've found at least for X99 that more is not always better, and sweet spot may not be that large sometimes ~ .05v.


1.3V is the ceiling for VSA on a 24/7 z170 rig IMO.


----------



## emexci

2x G.Skill F4-2800C15-8GTZB (OCT 2015) Double Side
2800Mhz 15-16-16-35 @ 1.25v

IN BIOS SET:

3333Mhz 16-17-17-32 2T

VCCIO: 1.125v
VCCSA: 1.125v

CPU: 4500mhz
Cache: 4400mhz
SA: 1000mhz

VCORE: 1.248v
DRAM: 1.360v

Max Temp DIMM1: 42,8c DIMM2: 45.0c


----------



## Kimir

Where do you find that Run MemTest Version 2.5?


----------



## emexci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Where do you find that Run MemTest Version 2.5?


I saw it on G.Skill Screenshots and just google'd it. But i'm not sure this is legal or warez because memtest pro was paid software.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emexci*
> 
> I saw it on G.Skill Screenshots and just google'd it. But i'm not sure this is legal or warez because memtest pro was paid software.


Hello

This is not legal and the link needs to be removed.


----------



## Desolutional

Bit worrying when G.Skill resorts to illegal software to advertise their sticks.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Bit worrying when G.Skill resorts to illegal software to advertise their sticks.


lol wut
I would think that software is specifically for them.


----------



## Blameless

RunMemtest looks like a front-end for launching multiple instances of HCI Memtest, not sure why it would be illegal, in and of itself. However, it's almost certainly illegal, in most places, to bundle Memtest with it.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> RunMemtest looks like a front-end for launching multiple instances of HCI Memtest, not sure why it would be illegal, in and of itself. However, it's almost certainly illegal, in most places, to bundle Memtest with it.


I believe launching multiple instances is one of the primary features of the paid-for ($5) HCI Memtest Pro version.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> I believe launching multiple instances is one of the primary features of the paid-for ($5) HCI Memtest Pro version.


Having an open-source marco to automate the task using the free version is legal however. That might be what the program is doing.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Having an open-source marco to automate the task using the free version is legal however. That might be what the program is doing.


Hello

No need to guess as to what the utility contains or does. Run MemTest is a single exe which includes HCI MemTest Pro.


----------



## Desolutional

Oh yes, I just realised the Pro interface on the screenshot. But theoretically if a macro was made to run multiple free versions, it wouldn't be illegal. Reminds me of the NETGEAR page where they teach the user how to play a video file with a filename indicating dubious legality...









But I just use GSAT nowadays as I have more than 16 gigs of memory, and Linux just makes me feel special inside.


----------



## Blameless

[email protected]/3.8---2667MT/s-C12-11-12-26-T1----1.38v---SA 0.95v---HCI 1700%

Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion and 4x4GiB Crucial Ballistix Sport 2400CL16, with OC socket _disabled_. Only using 13200MiB in the tests because F22h firmware leaves over 1200MiB hardware reserved.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> This is not legal and the link needs to be removed.


it's deja-vu all over again.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> [email protected]/3.8---2667MT/s-C12-11-12-26-T1----1.38v---SA 0.95v---HCI 1700%
> 
> Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion and 4x4GiB Crucial Ballistix Sport 2400CL16, with OC socket _disabled_. Only using 13200MiB in the tests because F22h firmware leaves over 1200MiB hardware reserved.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


tRTP = 3 Nice!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> [email protected]/3.8---2667MT/s-C12-11-12-26-T1----1.38v---SA 0.95v---HCI 1700%
> 
> Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion and 4x4GiB Crucial Ballistix Sport 2400CL16, with OC socket _disabled_. Only using 13200MiB in the tests because F22h firmware leaves over 1200MiB hardware reserved.


Interesting result Blameless, thanks. How are you finding that board?


----------



## QuantumX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 1.3V is the ceiling for VSA on a 24/7 z170 rig IMO.


Okay so yesterday I lowered the VSA to 1.26v and upped the VIO to 1.377v (voltmeter readings) and the system seemed pretty stable. Was running HCI Memtest past 50% without errors

I'll try to tweak the VSA more tonight and see if it can go even lower, looks like it needed more VIO rather than VSA. I was just wondering with regards to the whole memtest thing, I know I'm supposed to run one instance per core, but since I have 32GB RAM that would mean I need to run 4GB RAM per instance but memtest only allows me to run around 2500MB per instance.

So if I were to run 8 instances of 2500MB with 200% completion would that make me qualify for the list?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Interesting result Blameless, thanks. How are you finding that board?


Overall, I'm liking the SOC Champion. Current firmware has some kinks that need to be worked out though; best memory OCing I've seen yet with these Crucial sticks, but as I mentioned the amount of hardware reserved memory is inexplicably high. Hoping later firmware addresses that without breaking something else.

This particular 5820k also reacts oddly to the OC socket. My old 5820k would do about 3.6GHz uncore with the OC socket disabled and 4.2GHz with the OC socket enabled. New 5820k does 3.8GHz without the OC socket, but even getting 4.1GHz uncore stable with the OC socket is a chore. Of course, the first chip died pretty rapidly too, probably because of the sloppiness of the VCCSA and VLs I was willing to use to get the uncore to higher clocks. I've been much more conservative with the new part.

Still looking to get a Broadwell-E to drop back into my ASRock OC Formula and relegate this setup to a secondary system pretty soon. Both have firmware that supports BW-E, but the ASrock has twice as many M.2 and DIMM slots, which I intend to use.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> Okay so yesterday I lowered the VSA to 1.26v and upped the VIO to 1.377v (voltmeter readings) and the system seemed pretty stable. Was running HCI Memtest past 50% without errors
> 
> I'll try to tweak the VSA more tonight and see if it can go even lower, looks like it needed more VIO rather than VSA. I was just wondering with regards to the whole memtest thing, I know I'm supposed to run one instance per core, but since I have 32GB RAM that would mean I need to run 4GB RAM per instance but memtest only allows me to run around 2500MB per instance.
> 
> So if I were to run 8 instances of 2500MB with 200% completion would that make me qualify for the list?


Google Stress App test through Linux Mint is more preferable / less time consuming when working with that much memory.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Overall, I'm liking the SOC Champion. Current firmware has some kinks that need to be worked out though; best memory OCing I've seen yet with these Crucial sticks, but as I mentioned the amount of hardware reserved memory is inexplicably high. Hoping later firmware addresses that without breaking something else.
> 
> This particular 5820k also reacts oddly to the OC socket. My old 5820k would do about 3.6GHz uncore with the OC socket disabled and 4.2GHz with the OC socket enabled. New 5820k does 3.8GHz without the OC socket, but even getting 4.1GHz uncore stable with the OC socket is a chore. Of course, the first chip died pretty rapidly too, probably because of the sloppiness of the VCCSA and VLs I was willing to use to get the uncore to higher clocks. I've been much more conservative with the new part.
> 
> Still looking to get a Broadwell-E to drop back into my ASRock OC Formula and relegate this setup to a secondary system pretty soon. Both have firmware that supports BW-E, but the ASrock has twice as many M.2 and DIMM slots, which I intend to use.


Probably being a bit too timid on the voltage front as you suggest. Some really need the voltage for stability beyond 4ghz. Nothing wrong with being conservative, though


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> Okay so yesterday I lowered the VSA to 1.26v and upped the VIO to 1.377v (voltmeter readings) and the system seemed pretty stable. Was running HCI Memtest past 50% without errors
> 
> I'll try to tweak the VSA more tonight and see if it can go even lower, looks like it needed more VIO rather than VSA. I was just wondering with regards to the whole memtest thing, I know I'm supposed to run one instance per core, but since I have 32GB RAM that would mean I need to run 4GB RAM per instance but memtest only allows me to run around 2500MB per instance.
> 
> So if I were to run 8 instances of 2500MB with 200% completion would that make me qualify for the list?


what processor? 1 instance per thread... but running more instances than threads is not the way to go. As Scone said, use GSAT. HCI MT with 32 (or worse 64) GB of ram even on an 8c16T processor takes geologic time to complete, and if it coughs an error after 20 hours (a few 100 percent), it does not do well for one's patience.


----------



## QuantumX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Google Stress App test through Linux Mint is more preferable / less time consuming when working with that much memory.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what processor? 1 instance per thread... but running more instances than threads is not the way to go. As Scone said, use GSAT. HCI MT with 32 (or worse 64) GB of ram even on an 8c16T processor takes geologic time to complete, and if it coughs an error after 20 hours (a few 100 percent), it does not do well for one's patience.


Sorry I meant 1 instance per thread yes, i7-6700K thus 8 threads.

Installing Linux Mint and struggling to get the app installed is already much more effort for me than running memtest









Maybe this weekend I'll have the patience for that but not now in the week after work. I'll give an update when done


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> Installing Linux Mint and struggling to get the app installed is already much more effort for me than running memtest


0. Get Rufus, download Mint 17.2 (most stable version), write to a USB drive. Windows > Start > Search > Create and format hard disk partitions > Shrink the main OS partition by 8GB (that means you'll have 8GB free space left). Leave the "free space" as it is. Reboot. Open "gparted" and create an 8GB "ext4" partition on the empty space. Install Linux Mint to that partition and assign it as "/" mount point.
1. Ctrl + Alt + T
2. sudo get-apt update
3. sudo get-apt install stressapptest
4. stressapptest -W -s 3600

Of course this would be far easier as a Live CD, if I ever get round to doing one I'll be sure to post on here. Once you have Linux installed it'll show up in the BIOS boot devices. And you'll be able to use it for Linux things too.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> Sorry I meant 1 instance per thread yes, i7-6700K thus 8 threads.
> 
> Installing Linux Mint and struggling to get the app installed i*s already much more effort for me than running memtest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Maybe this weekend I'll have the patience for that but not now in the week after work. I'll give an update when done


Not if you want a reasonable amount of coverage







. Two hours of GSAT is worth a lot in terms of testing stability. Any reasonable amount of coverage with your system with HCI is going to take you three times that.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> 0. Get Rufus, download Mint 17.2 (most stable version), write to a USB drive. Windows > Start > Search > Create and format hard disk partitions > Shrink the main OS partition by 8GB (that means you'll have 8GB free space left). Leave the "free space" as it is. Reboot. Open "gparted" and create an 8GB "ext4" partition on the empty space. Install Linux Mint to that partition and assign it as "/" mount point.
> 1. Ctrl + Alt + T
> 2. sudo get-apt update
> 3. sudo get-apt install stressapptest
> 4. stressapptest -W -s 3600
> 
> Of course this would be far easier as a Live CD, if I ever get round to doing one I'll be sure to post on here. Once you have Linux installed it'll show up in the BIOS boot devices. And you'll be able to use it for Linux things too.


I have a 1TB harddrive with Linux & Windows I only use for stress testing on an IcyDock removable mount (saves my RAID 10 drives from verifying or RAID 0 from calamity when things get uber-stressed sometimes







). I'm currently using Mint 17.3 - what lack of stability are you aware of in it? The one annoying thing I get in either 17.2 or 17.3 is occasionally it seems to trigger the VRM power off while loading or just loaded. Once properly loaded and running for a bit I've never experienced the sudden power off while running stressapptest..


----------



## Silent Scone

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g-skill-reaches-ddr4-5000-with-trident-z.html

Unlikely we'll see any results with these in here any time soon at XMP


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g-skill-reaches-ddr4-5000-with-trident-z.html
> 
> Unlikely we'll see any results with these in here any time soon at XMP


Lol imagine the amount of VSA/IO a kit like that would apply at XMP.


----------



## Kimir

Have you guys seen the new HyperX Predator heat spreader? It look nice IMO, less tall than the previous one, which is a good thing!


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I have a 1TB harddrive with Linux & Windows I only use for stress testing on an IcyDock removable mount (saves my RAID 10 drives from verifying or RAID 0 from calamity when things get uber-stressed sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I'm currently using Mint 17.3 - what lack of stability are you aware of in it? The one annoying thing I get in either 17.2 or 17.3 is occasionally it seems to trigger the VRM power off while loading or just loaded. Once properly loaded and running for a bit I've never experienced the sudden power off while running stressapptest..


17.3 uses the new Open Nouveau nVidia drivers which can result in the Black Screen of Death if running two different types of GPUs (e.g. 980 Ti and 970). I posted a bug report a while back, not sure if it's been fixed yet. Apart from that, 17.3 is stable. What do you mean by VRM power off? Have you disabled VR Fault Management in the CPU section of your BIOS?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Have you guys seen the new HyperX Predator heat spreader? It look nice IMO, less tall than the previous one, which is a good thing!


which ones?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> 17.3 uses the new Open Nouveau nVidia drivers which can result in the Black Screen of Death if running two different types of GPUs (e.g. 980 Ti and 970). I posted a bug report a while back, not sure if it's been fixed yet. Apart from that, 17.3 is stable. What do you mean by VRM power off? Have you disabled VR Fault Management in the CPU section of your BIOS?


I'm on AMD GPU (and a lame one at that







), so no probs for me. Yes, I have VR Fault Management disabled. It happens occasionally with Mint during or just after loading, never with WIn 10. The system just suddenly shuts off. Weird with a beard.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> which ones?


I'm curious as well.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I'm on AMD GPU (and a lame one at that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), so no probs for me. Yes, I have VR Fault Management disabled. It happens occasionally with Mint during or just after loading, never with WIn 10. The system just suddenly shuts off. Weird with a beard.


Have you tried booting (you'll probably need to do 10 boots in succession to test the theory) with nothing but the keyboard and mouse plugged in? Might be a device tripping up the kernel during boot.


----------



## ssateneth

So I understand that Google Stress App is up there with memory stability tests. I was able to slap linux mint on a usb stick, but I could not run GSAT from the USB stick as it got a memory allocation error and wouldnt run. Had to install it to a hard drive. So I find a spare hard drive, install it, it runs. On a spare PC out of spare outdated parts. Ok.

Well when I start linux mint USB key on my main system (5960x, gtx 980), after the 10 second automatic boot timer, it goes to a black screen, a bootup sound comes out of my speakers, and thats it. The screen stays black. What am I doing wrong? Do I need drivers? How do I get them if all I get is a black screen?


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> So I understand that Google Stress App is up there with memory stability tests. I was able to slap linux mint on a usb stick, but I could not run GSAT from the USB stick as it got a memory allocation error and wouldnt run. Had to install it to a hard drive. So I find a spare hard drive, install it, it runs. On a spare PC out of spare outdated parts. Ok.
> 
> Well when I start linux mint USB key on my main system (5960x, gtx 980), after the 10 second automatic boot timer, it goes to a black screen, a bootup sound comes out of my speakers, and thats it. The screen stays black. What am I doing wrong? Do I need drivers? How do I get them if all I get is a black screen?


I have to re-enable CSM under the boot menu in the BIOS to get Linux to work.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> which ones?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I'm curious as well.


Those one


mkd_302.3_hyperx_predator_ddr4_fr.pdf 224k .pdf file

(pdf is in French, so am I







)
Specs are nothing spectacular, probably AFR.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> So I understand that Google Stress App is up there with memory stability tests. I was able to slap linux mint on a usb stick, but I could not run GSAT from the USB stick as it got a memory allocation error and wouldnt run. Had to install it to a hard drive. So I find a spare hard drive, install it, it runs. On a spare PC out of spare outdated parts. Ok.
> 
> Well when I start linux mint USB key on my main system (5960x, gtx 980), after the 10 second automatic boot timer, it goes to a black screen, a bootup sound comes out of my speakers, and thats it. The screen stays black. What am I doing wrong? Do I need drivers? How do I get them if all I get is a black screen?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> I have to re-enable CSM under the boot menu in the BIOS to get Linux to work.


As above, but also the boot loader can take a short while at times.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Those one
> 
> 
> mkd_302.3_hyperx_predator_ddr4_fr.pdf 224k .pdf file
> 
> (pdf is in French, so am I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Specs are nothing spectacular, probably AFR.


Ahh - not bad looking at all.


----------



## moorhen2

Please add this one.

moorhen2---i7 [email protected]/4.3---3426Mhz---C16-16-16-36-1T---1.35v---SA +0.250v---HCI 1200%


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Please add this one.
> 
> moorhen2---i7 [email protected]/4.3---3426Mhz---C16-16-16-36-1T---1.35v---SA +0.250v---HCI 1200%


Very nice! Will add results over the weekend


----------



## moorhen2

Many thanks.


----------



## Jpmboy

lol, don't ya know.. the same guy that started the Haswell thread (then disappeared) has started a GTX 1080 thread. Let's not let that happen to a BW-E thread.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol, don't ya know.. the same guy that started the Haswell thread (then disappeared) has started a GTX 1080 thread. Let's not let that happen to a BW-E thread.


Lol, definition of a glory hunter! Or ASW







did you pick one up? I bought, but missed the rush. Demand was crazy.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Lol, definition of a glory hunter! Or ASW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you pick one up? I bought, but missed the rush. Demand was crazy.


Should be here next week. NO shipping over the Memorial Day Holiday here in the US anyway so 2 or 3 day ship would still be next week.

edit: now we need to find PASCAL BIOS TWEAKER !!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Should be here next week. NO shipping over the Memorial Day Holiday here in the US anyway so 2 or 3 day ship would still be next week.
> 
> edit: now we need to find PASCAL BIOS TWEAKER !!


You knows!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You knows!


Me?









you got some insider connections...


----------



## QuantumX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> Maybe this weekend I'll have the patience for that but not now in the week after work. I'll give an update when done


Finally managed to get Linux Mint installed, it didn't want to boot from the installation media with my GTX980 no matter what I tried. Put in a GT210 and it installed fine.

I was pleased with the Stressapp, usually didn't take more than 5 - 10 mins to give errors when the RAM wasn't 100% stable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> So my question is, should I raise CPU SA and IO volts more to get 3333 CL15 100% stable? And which one of these are more important on Skylake for getting higher mem frequency?


Managed to get the SA volts down to 1.15v so far and passed 1h Stressapp test, but it needed a bit more IO and DRAM volts - had to go up to 1.4v and 1.44v respectively.

I will tweak the SA volts some more during the week and post my final results. Thanks for the help so far guys


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you got some insider connections...


Sorry that was more an 'amen brother'








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> Finally managed to get Linux Mint installed, it didn't want to boot from the installation media with my GTX980 no matter what I tried. Put in a GT210 and it installed fine.
> 
> I was pleased with the Stressapp, usually didn't take more than 5 - 10 mins to give errors when the RAM wasn't 100% stable.
> Managed to get the SA volts down to 1.15v so far and passed 1h Stressapp test, but it needed a bit more IO and DRAM volts - had to go up to 1.4v and 1.44v respectively.
> 
> I will tweak the SA volts some more during the week and post my final results. Thanks for the help so far guys


Glad you managed to get Stress App running, it is by far in my opinion more efficient at stabilizing memory on X99. I rarely use HCI unless encountering any anomaly within Windows that cannot be explained.

Haven't gotten round to adding the recent results but will do at some stage today


----------



## Silent Scone

http://www.gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=0&prop_6=Quad+Channel+Kit&prop_3=0&prop_4=0&prop_1=0&series=2482

eeny meeny...


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=0&prop_6=Quad+Channel+Kit&prop_3=0&prop_4=0&prop_1=0&series=2482
> 
> eeny meeny...


3200, no questions!


----------



## QuantumX

QuantumX---i7-6700K @ 4.7/4.5---3340Mhz---C15-15-15-35-1T---1.47v---SA 1.15v---IO 1.38v---Stressapptest 1H


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=0&prop_6=Quad+Channel+Kit&prop_3=0&prop_4=0&prop_1=0&series=2482
> 
> eeny meeny...


3200c14. no question.


----------



## GRABibus

Is it usual to have this timing configuration for tras ?

12-12-13-*13*-220 1T (HyperX Savage CL14 PC22400 at 2666MHz)
As you can see, my tras is equal to trp and I am OCCT stable ("Large data set" 12 hours) and I boot without any issues.
I pass also Aida64 "CPU+FPU+Cache+Memory" 12 hours and RealBench 8 hours 16GB RAM test.

Is it supposed to be more performant than with higher tras ?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Is it usual to have this timing configuration for tras ?
> 
> 12-12-13-*13*-220 1T (HyperX Savage CL14 PC22400 at 2666MHz)
> As you can see, my tras is equal to trp and I am OCCT stable ("Large data set" 12 hours) and I boot without any issues.
> I pass also Aida64 "CPU+FPU+Cache+Memory" 12 hours and RealBench 8 hours 16GB RAM test.
> 
> Is it supposed to be more performant than with higher tras ?


Hello

That value is what is being reported only. Th boards are pretty good at protecting users from themselves when entering a tRAS value that violates the time domain constraint.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> That value is what is being reported only. Th boards are pretty good at protecting users from themselves when entering a tRAS value that violates the time domain constraint.


And how can you know the real value then ?

CPUZ and all other softwares report "13", BIOS also reports "13". This is the value I entered in BIOS manually.


----------



## Kimir

You cannot, just do the math and enter a correct value to avoid the board putting what it want because you violate the rule.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You cannot, just do the math and enter a correct value to avoid the board putting what it want because you violate the rule.


So which value tras should I try ?
I base on tRAS = tCL + tRCD + tRP (+/- 1) formula ?
Means tras=12+12+13=37 or 36 ?


----------



## Desolutional

Doesn't the Auto setting automatically calculate it for you too? It seems to do so on my board anyhow.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Doesn't the Auto setting automatically calculate it for you too? It seems to do so on my board anyhow.


Yes, i just tried.
"Auto" gives me "36".
I let the tras value in Bios on "auto" then ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuantumX*
> 
> QuantumX---i7-6700K @ 4.7/4.5---3340Mhz---C15-15-15-35-1T---1.47v---SA 1.15v---IO 1.38v---Stressapptest 1H


I would try and lower that IO voltage personally


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I would try and lower that IO voltage personally


I know this doesn't relate to the OP's question, but what IO voltage would you recommend not exceeding on X99? I definitely seem to gain stability during training up to 1.10V, not sure if it would be wise to exceed that 1.10V.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> I know this doesn't relate to the OP's question, but what IO voltage would you recommend not exceeding on X99? I definitely seem to gain stability during training up to 1.10V, not sure if it would be wise to exceed that 1.10V.


I've never had to adjust this manually on X99. Perhaps 1.2v would be a good general rule, I can't imagine ever needing this much on this platform for a daily overclock


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've never had to adjust this manually on X99. Perhaps 1.2v would be a good general rule, I can't imagine ever needing this much on this platform for a daily overclock


Yep, I was definitely surprised when I could only get past training by raising it to 1.10V for XMP. So there was a definite gain in stability by manipulating this voltage. I've played it safe thus far keeping to 1.10V. Everything I read online seemed to say that VCCIO shouldn't affect stability.


----------



## hhuey5

do you really see the diff between 2400 n 3000?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> So which value tras should I try ?
> I base on tRAS = tCL + tRCD + tRP (+/- 1) formula ?
> Means tras=12+12+13=37 or 36 ?


ras=cas+rcd+rtp. As Praz and Kimir posted. There is a little play around the value as you indicate, but at some point, the timing error gets corrected and we cannot know the substituted value.
More to th epoint, OCCT is not a test of ram stability - tho completely borked up ram will crash. AID64 just takes a very long time ot reveal errors. Use HCI memtest or google stressapptest.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> I know this doesn't relate to the OP's question, but what IO voltage would you recommend not exceeding on X99? I definitely seem to gain stability during training up to 1.10V, not sure if it would be wise to exceed that 1.10V.


Early on, devilhead and I both found that increasing both VCCIO voltages a notch or two helped to stabilize some of the early Hynix sticks at 3333 on 125 strap. Since then, I just run both at 1.075V. Done this with about 5 or 6 ram kits - maybe more of a habit than anything else at this point, but it has not hurt.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Yep, I was definitely surprised when I could only get past training by raising it to 1.10V for XMP. So there was a definite gain in stability by manipulating this voltage. I've played it safe thus far keeping to 1.10V. Everything I read online seemed to say that VCCIO shouldn't affect stability.


I run vccio @ 1.05 manually on my OC and never had training problems. Lucky I guess?


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ras=cas+rcd+rtp. As Praz and Kimir posted. There is a little play around the value as you indicate, but at some point, the timing error gets corrected and we cannot know the substituted value.
> More to th epoint, OCCT is not a test of ram stability - tho completely borked up ram will crash. AID64 just takes a very long time ot reveal errors. Use HCI memtest or google stressapptest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Early on, devilhead and I both found that increasing both VCCIO voltages a notch or two helped to stabilize some of the early Hynix sticks at 3333 on 125 strap. Since then, I just run both at 1.075V. Done this with about 5 or 6 ram kits - maybe more of a habit than anything else at this point, but it has not hurt.


Considéring memtest, I read That it is better to Run as Many instances as cores we have (6 instances for a 6 cores CPU).
Do we have to Run 12 instances With HT enabled on 6 cores CPU ?

Other question : which amount of RAM for instances ?


----------



## Kimir

Yes, 1 instance per thread, so indeed 12 instance with your cpu and HT enabled.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Yes, 1 instance per thread, so indeed 12 instance with your cpu and HT enabled.


Ok.
And How Many amount of RAM for each instance ?
It is advised to use "unavailable amount of RAM". I let this "unavailable amount of RAM" for the 12 instances ?
Or should I put my total 16GB divided by 12 for each instance (1333MB for each instance) ?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Ok.
> And How Many amount of RAM for each instance ?
> It is advised to use "unavailable amount of RAM". I let this "unavailable amount of RAM" for the 12 instances ?
> Or should I put my total 16GB divided by 12 for each instance (1333MB for each instance) ?


For your 16GB and 12 instances, it should be 1024. like this.
As you can see in OP, it's suggested to use 90-95% of the total RAM.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Ok.
> And How Many amount of RAM for each instance ?
> It is advised to use "unavailable amount of RAM". I let this "unavailable amount of RAM" for the 12 instances ?
> Or should I put my total 16GB divided by 12 for each instance (1333MB for each instance) ?


90% of your available ram divided between 12 cores


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> 90% of your available ram divided between 12 cores


So I put 1024MB as tested amount of RAM in each instance ? (12 instances)

Total available RAM is not the same value as the 16GB.....

And in memtest site, they advise to use "unavailable RAM"....


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> So I put 1024MB as tested amount of RAM in each instance ? (12 instances)
> 
> Total available RAM is not the same value as the 16GB.....
> 
> And in memtest site, they advise to use "unavailable RAM"....


I am currently testing 12 instances of 1200MB RAM each. Let's see


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I run vccio @ 1.05 manually on my OC and never had training problems. Lucky I guess?


Nah, I just have a weak IMC. Decent chip though.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> And in memtest site, they advise to use "unavailable RAM"....


If you try to use too much memory, you'll stall the test or force swapping.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I am currently testing 12 instances of 1200MB RAM each.


14400 MiB might work, but only if you have nothing else running during the test. It's going to be pretty borderline on most 16GiB setups for available memory.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> If you try to use too much memory, you'll stall the test or force swapping.
> 14400 MiB might work, but only if you have nothing else running during the test. It's going to be pretty borderline on most 16GiB setups for available memory.


I try to use unused RAM.
I just check unused RAM amount before test (Task Manager info).
Then, I divide by 12 this amount of unused RAM and I put this value in each instance of Memory test as the memory value to test.
My computer uses roughly 3GB RAM at idle.
I have 16GB.
So 16GB-3GB=132GB unused RAM
So, I do 13GB/12=roughly 1GB to enter in each instance.


----------



## Qwinn

You don't want to use all available RAM. Use 90% of it, otherwise the first background process that goes off will start hitting the swap file.


----------



## GRABibus

How long for a reliable test ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> How long for a reliable test ?


500-1000% (see the OP in this thread).


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 500-1000% (see the OP in this thread).


ok








I already passed 3 hours without any errors.
I will do a 1000% and post screenshot.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already passed 3 hours without any errors.
> I will do a 1000% and post screenshot.


get your OC added to the OP table!


----------



## KedarWolf

X99A II Motherboard - 5930k CPU

Will run HCI Memtest to 400% or so by tomorrow night.









Respectable for an X99A motherboard and 128GB of RAM. Have done preliminary stress testing with HCI MemTest and RealBench but need to do two hours of RealBench and HCI to 400% or so. With 128GB it takes like 19 hours for HCI to get to 400% . I run it overnight seven hours then let it continue while I'm at work ten hours.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> X99A II Motherboard - 5930k CPU
> 
> Will run HCI Memtest to 400% or so by tomorrow night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Respectable for an X99A motherboard and 128GB of RAM. Have done preliminary stress testing with HCI MemTest and RealBench but need to do two hours of RealBench and HCI to 400% or so. With 128GB it takes like 19 hours for HCI to get to 400% . I run it overnight seven hours then let it continue while I'm at work ten hours.


Cool, I would post up a task manager screenshot also to show all DIMMs are mapped for anyone else looking to run this kind of config. Also I would not use HCI in this instance, and install Linux Mint. 2 hours of Stress App test is ample. See the OP for more details


----------



## Jpmboy

BW-E needs some serious help with RAM... or, Samsung B-die are just not very compatible?




c13 refuses to post at any voltage.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> BW-E needs some serious help with RAM... or, Samsung B-die are just not very compatible?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> c13 refuses to post at any voltage.


And for 3200 C14 ?

Already the ram frequency was not pretty on Haswell-E, but then there


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> BW-E needs some serious help with RAM... or, Samsung B-die are just not very compatible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> c13 refuses to post at any voltage.


Thanks for sharing this info man! I noticed that you bumped the cache up a bit. Are you working your way up or is that the limitation at this point in time?

I noticed your 4.3 CPU OC is right in line with everything else I've seen. Do you think it's got much OC left in it with all cores active?

I'm wondering how high it'll go with less cores active.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> BW-E needs some serious help with RAM... or, Samsung B-die are just not very compatible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> c13 refuses to post at any voltage.


That's still a good place to be IMO! I knew it would not take long before you bit on the Extreme







. Seeing 10 cores on the OSD is cool enough on it's own.









EDIT: Just spotted you're at 2666. Will take a few build releases for things to mature I'd imagine. Have you tried just using the one kit?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Thanks for sharing this info man! I noticed that you bumped the cache up a bit. Are you working your way up or is that the limitation at this point in time?
> 
> I noticed your 4.3 CPU OC is right in line with everything else I've seen. Do you think it's got much OC left in it with all cores active?
> 
> I'm wondering how high it'll go with less cores active.


Currently running aid64 cache test in the background with 3700 [email protected] Once it looks good, I'll keep working my way up the ladder. remember, stock cache is 2800!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's still a good place to be IMO! I knew it would not take long before you bit on the Extreme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Seeing 10 cores on the OSD is cool enough on it's own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Just spotted you're at 2666. Will take a few build releases for things to mature I'd imagine. Have you tried just using the one kit?


Yeah - it just seems as tho the memory dividers are "immature". 2666 seems solid ATM. 3200 just fails to post at any voltage or timngs. This is a single 64GB 3200C14 ram jit. Not a combo of 2 kits. I sold my 4x8GB TZ kit for $20 less than cost.








20 threads does help HCiMT move along tho.

On another subject, have you seen the Microsoft Hololens? Any critique?


----------



## Silent Scone

Ah ok, was an assumption on my part as I knew you had the kits and the timings used were similar. I've seen the hololens, yeah. I've got my heart set on the Vive currently though. Haven't really paid much attention the the MS one.

P.S you could always send me that CPU to see if I have any joy here?


----------



## GRABibus

Here I am :

GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/3.9---2666Mhz-C13-13-13-36-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI 3100% (12 hours)


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ Nice!!


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ Nice!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Here I am :
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/3.9---2666Mhz-C13-13-13-36-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI 3100% (12 hours)


Thanks for the result, very nice chip there too


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks for the result, very nice chip there too


Thanks !
You add me in the list ?
And how to get signature for this thread ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Thanks !
> You add me in the list ?
> And how to get signature for this thread ?


Use this link in your Sig:








*Skylake, Haswell & Broadwell 24/7 DDR4 Memory Stability Thread*









Code:



Code:


:clock: [URL=http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/0_50][B]Skylake, Haswell & Broadwell 24/7 DDR4 Memory Stability Thread[/B][/URL] :clock:


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Thanks !
> You add me in the list ?
> And how to get signature for this thread ?


Will do today


----------



## GRABibus

I did all the night this test :

GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/3.9---3200Mhz-C15-15-15-45-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI

And all went very well during 11h30 and then, SPLASSH => My computer rebooted !!!

What should I do as modified timings to get 12 hours stability ?


----------



## GRABibus

I Will try 3200MHz. 15-16-16-45-1T. 1,35V


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I did all the night this test :
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/3.9---3200Mhz-C15-15-15-45-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI
> 
> And all went very well during 11h30 and then, SPLASSH => My computer rebooted !!!
> 
> What should I do as modified timings to get 12 hours stability ?


Might be an idea to isolate uncore and test with AIDA64. Also check to see if there was an exception fault, this might help you isolate the problem.


----------



## GRABibus

By the way it shows it is quite impossible to estimate That an overclock is stable...
Look, 11h30 HCI test and crash !
And this thread is a stability thread With only 500% coverage for 16GB....


----------



## kgtuning

With the X99 is it ok to use 2 ram kits? Same brand, speed and timings. Id rather one kit but would 2 kits play nicely?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> By the way it shows it is quite impossible to estimate That an overclock is stable...
> Look, 11h30 HCI test and crash !
> And this thread is a stability thread With only 500% coverage for 16GB....


Hello

Been this way forever. And you are using the wrong type of memory for the length of memory testing you are doing.


----------



## ssateneth

Moorhen2 I'm curious to what bandwidth you can push on the
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kgtuning*
> 
> With the X99 is it ok to use 2 ram kits? Same brand, speed and timings. Id rather one kit but would 2 kits play nicely?


Quad channel kits are backed by the warranty that all 4 DIMMs working together will operate at the stated speed or you get a replacement/money back.

If you get 2 dual channel kits and try to run them in quad channel, you are operating them outside the manufacturer's specs, even if you run them at the stated speeds. So you cannot get refund/replacement if they don't work in quad channel. Also, the programmed in timings may only work in dual channel configuration.

Nothing preventing you from doing it anyways, but you won't get manufacturer support on it. There's no guarantee you will get stated speed or better by using 2 dual channel kits in quad channel. Probably won't get much help here other than "try lower speed" or "more voltage" or "looser timings" or "tweak this n that"


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I did all the night this test :
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/3.9---3200Mhz-C15-15-15-45-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI
> 
> And all went very well during 11h30 and then, SPLASSH => My computer rebooted !!!
> 
> What should I do as modified timings to get 12 hours stability ?


Test one overclock at a time. RAM at OC speeds, CPU/cache stock. CPU at OC speeds, RAM/cache at stock. Cache at OC speeds, CPU/RAM stock. Then start combining until you get all 3 stable.


----------



## kgtuning

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Moorhen2 I'm curious to what bandwidth you can push on the
> Quad channel kits are backed by the warranty that all 4 DIMMs working together will operate at the stated speed or you get a replacement/money back.
> 
> If you get 2 dual channel kits and try to run them in quad channel, you are operating them outside the manufacturer's specs, even if you run them at the stated speeds. So you cannot get refund/replacement if they don't work in quad channel. Also, the programmed in timings may only work in dual channel configuration.
> 
> Nothing preventing you from doing it anyways, but you won't get manufacturer support on it. There's no guarantee you will get stated speed or better by using 2 dual channel kits in quad channel. Probably won't get much help here other than "try lower speed" or "more voltage" or "looser timings" or "tweak this n that"


I see. I was thinking more along the lines of 2 quad channel kits together making it 8 modules in quad.


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kgtuning*
> 
> I see. I was thinking more along the lines of 2 quad channel kits together making it 8 modules in quad.


Thats even worse. Good luck. There is probably a reason why manufacturers dont make 3600mhz 8 dimm kits, the cpu cant handle it.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Been this way forever. And you are using the wrong type of memory for the length of memory testing you are doing.


What do you méan ?


----------



## kgtuning

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Thats even worse. Good luck. There is probably a reason why manufacturers dont make 3600mhz 8 dimm kits, the cpu cant handle it.


Lol okay then ill stick to a single kit. Thanks for the input.

Edit: oh no i was shooting for 2666 on 8 dimm.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Test one overclock at a time. RAM at OC speeds, CPU/cache stock. CPU at OC speeds, RAM/cache at stock. Cache at OC speeds, CPU/RAM stock. Then start combining until you get all 3 stable.


CPU and cache have already Been tested since à Long Time.
I am now taking care of RAM since some days


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Been this way forever. And you are using the wrong type of memory for the length of memory testing you are doing.


I test 1024MB per thread (12 thread), which is 93% of available RAM for 16GB.
This is usual way for 16GB and 6 cores CPU With HT enabled


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kgtuning*
> 
> Lol okay then ill stick to a single kit. Thanks for the input.
> 
> Edit: oh no i was shooting for 2666 on 8 dimm.


2666MHz on 8 DIMMs is easily possible for 4GB DIMMs and possible with 8GB modules. 16GB modules should be possible if you have a good IMC - and that's a big if. As the used slots / capacity increases, so does the load on the IMC. More RAM and tighter timings cause additional stress, it's just a matter of if the IMC can handle it. It should be able to handle 128GB comfortably at 2133MHz and also 2400MHz. Though for anything higher than 64GB I'd go with an ECC motherboard instead. There isn't a huge performance difference beyond 2400MHz anyhow, so if it's a matter of choosing capacity over speed, don't worry about hitting those 3K+ numbers. Just get it stable at JEDEC spec then push from there.


----------



## kgtuning

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> 2666MHz on 8 DIMMs is easily possible for 4GB DIMMs and possible with 8GB modules. 16GB modules should be possible if you have a good IMC - and that's a big if. As the used slots / capacity increases, so does the load on the IMC. More RAM and tighter timings cause additional stress, it's just a matter of if the IMC can handle it. It should be able to handle 128GB comfortably at 2133MHz and also 2400MHz. Though for anything higher than 64GB I'd go with an ECC motherboard instead. There isn't a huge performance difference beyond 2400MHz anyhow, so if it's a matter of choosing capacity over speed, don't worry about hitting those 3K+ numbers. Just get it stable at JEDEC spec then push from there.


Thank you for the explanation! I am a noob when it comes to ram. Been a long time since ive played around with timings and speed.


----------



## thrgk

Anyone notice any timings , secondary or teriary I can tighten? I tried 14-13-13-32-1 and 13-13-13-28-1 but was not stable so figured I would try tightening other ones and see.

Otherwise ATM i am 2hours of google stress test app stable.

Thanks !


----------



## ssateneth

increasing dram refresh interval will get you a very measurable increase in memory-related bench numbers. 32767 is the maximum on x99 to my knowledge, and typically will work right off the bat. ignore dram efficiency score, its meaningless

also something I just found out. Some of the earlier benches noted that CPU VCCIO is largely useless. That is wrong probably because they werent pushing RAM speeds. All this time I thought system agent was the memory controller but every time I changed SA, it did absolutely nothing. On a whim, I tried CPU VCCIO and gave it a 0.1v bump. Suddenly I can now POST and boot with 3200MHz.

So if you are getting flat out freezing (no bsod) or inability to post at high ram speeds, try increasing VCCIO. I'm at 1.15v VCCIO (1.05 default) while SA is at the default (0.825) and going from there. First generation ripjaws 4 4x8GB 3000MHz 15-15-15-35 2T kit is booting into OS at 3206MHz 15-15-16-35 1T, though will likely need to relax the other primary timings to get fully RAM stable. Otherwise get a variety of BSODs (MEMORY_MANAGEMENT, IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL, PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA off the top of my mind)


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrgk*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone notice any timings , secondary or teriary I can tighten? I tried 14-13-13-32-1 and 13-13-13-28-1 but was not stable so figured I would try tightening other ones and see.
> 
> Otherwise ATM i am 2hours of google stress test app stable.
> 
> Thanks !


Personally I tried tweaking every third timing, and most 2nd timings, and any that I could lower stable saw no performance difference at all (at least not with Aida benchmark, not sure how else you could test it). The only ones that make a significant difference besides the primary timings seem to be cycle time (lower is better) and refresh (higher is better).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> increasing dram refresh interval will get you a very measurable increase in memory-related bench numbers. 32767 is the maximum on x99 to my knowledge, and typically will work right off the bat. ignore dram efficiency score, its meaningless
> 
> also something I just found out. Some of the earlier benches noted that CPU VCCIO is largely useless. That is wrong probably because they werent pushing RAM speeds. All this time I thought system agent was the memory controller but every time I changed SA, it did absolutely nothing. On a whim, I tried CPU VCCIO and gave it a 0.1v bump. Suddenly I can now POST and boot with 3200MHz.
> 
> So if you are getting flat out freezing (no bsod) or inability to post at high ram speeds, try increasing VCCIO. I'm at 1.15v VCCIO (1.05 default) while SA is at the default (0.825) and going from there. First generation ripjaws 4 4x8GB 3000MHz 15-15-15-35 2T kit is booting into OS at 3206MHz 15-15-16-35 1T, though will likely need to relax the other primary timings to get fully RAM stable. Otherwise get a variety of BSODs (MEMORY_MANAGEMENT, IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL, PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA off the top of my mind)


SA has never done anything for me either. I'll give VCCIO a sbot, thanks.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> What do you méan ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I test 1024MB per thread (12 thread), which is 93% of available RAM for 16GB.
> This is usual way for 16GB and 6 cores CPU With HT enabled


If stability is of the utmost importance to you that you need the memory to be able to go without error for that sort of time, then these types of configurations are probably not for you. Praz is likely pointing out you'd be better off using a system capable of using ECC modules.


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Moorhen2 I'm curious to what bandwidth you can push on the
> Quad channel kits are backed by the warranty that all 4 DIMMs working together will operate at the stated speed or you get a replacement/money back.
> 
> If you get 2 dual channel kits and try to run them in quad channel, you are operating them outside the manufacturer's specs, even if you run them at the stated speeds. So you cannot get refund/replacement if they don't work in quad channel. Also, the programmed in timings may only work in dual channel configuration.
> 
> Nothing preventing you from doing it anyways, but you won't get manufacturer support on it. There's no guarantee you will get stated speed or better by using 2 dual channel kits in quad channel. Probably won't get much help here other than "try lower speed" or "more voltage" or "looser timings" or "tweak this n that"


Does this help.


----------



## thrgk

So set dram refresh interval to 32767? And maybe try and decrease the cycle time some?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrgk*
> 
> So set dram refresh interval to 32767?


That is poor advice, so no.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrgk*
> 
> So set dram refresh interval to 32767? And maybe try and decrease the cycle time some?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


The problem with increasing the dram refresh interval is that standard stability tests won't work. Tests like HCI memtest and GSAT are continuously writing to memory which makes routine refreshes unnecessary. The best way to test it is to suspend a bunch of apps in idle.

In my particular case, under a previous bios and with my command rate at 1, I couldn't raise it and be stable at all. Nor could I drop cycle time, but then I am running the same cycle time at 3000 that my XMP sets for 2666 (which is 347). Your 328 cycle time already seems reasonably tight for the speed you're running at.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrgk*
> 
> So set dram refresh interval to 32767? And maybe try and decrease the cycle time some?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


as scone said... that's not advisable, and it 's very difficult to test since that long of a refresh only fails when the ram is not doing much. Raja suggested trying putting the PC to sleep (suspend to ram). I suggest doing this for increasing lengths of time.
On x99, 22066 seems beneficial and stable.

_______________________________

anyway - making some progress with this 6950X on the R5E with 3200!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> as scone said... that's not advisable, and it 's very difficult to test since that long of a refresh only fails when the ram is not doing much. Raja suggested trying putting the PC to sleep (suspend to ram). I suggest doing this for increasing lengths of time.
> On x99, 22066 seems beneficial and stable.
> 
> _______________________________
> 
> anyway - making some progress with this 6950X on the R5E with 3200!


Nice







I'm looking forward to posting some new X99 results


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That is poor advice, so no.


What makes it poor advice? Delaying the interval before the capacitor recharge doesn't hurt the ram itself. Sure it has risk of the charge dissipating before the next refresh, but in my experience I never had a problem. Hell, I even did ~48000 on sandy bridge-e on ddr3-1600. The standard tREFI is 7.8 or 3.9 microseconds, but my setting equated to 30 microseconds, and had zero issue. Only setting that can be touchy is tRFC, the duration where the cells are actually recharged. Too short, and the cells don't charge enough to last to the next refresh.

RIght now, I do 32767 tREFI on 3066MHz DDR4 RAM, which equates to 10.68 microseconds. By comparison, standard tREFI for 3066 MHz DDR4 is about 11976 (3.9 microseconds). It yielded a few ns less in latency in AIDA and better read and copy scores (write speeds limited by uncore speed)


----------



## Praz

Hello

Mucking about with tREFI outside of benchmarking is not worth the trade-off for possible undetectable instability. As has been noted stability testing for the setting is difficult and bit errors can occur without notice. However, if one uses the system for nothing of importance these errors may not matter.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Here I am :
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/3.9---2666Mhz-C13-13-13-36-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI 3100% (12 hours)


Result added, thanks









If you would like to tell me the VCCIN used and the motherboard model I will add these too.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Result added, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you would like to tell me the VCCIN used and the motherboard model I will add these too.


MSI X99S GAMING 7
Vccin=1,9V


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> MSI X99S GAMING 7
> Vccin=1,9V


Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy -- [email protected], cache 3.8, AVX 4.1 --- 3200 13-14-15-32-2T --- 1.45V vdimm --- 1.208V VSA (!) -- GSAT 1h



Unfortunately AsRock TC and ASUS Memtweak don't work with the 6950X even to read the timings








I think I can tighten things up a bit...


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected], cache 3.8, AVX 4.1 --- 3200 13-14-15-32-2T --- 1.45V vdimm --- 1.208V VSA (!) -- GSAT 1h
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately AsRock TC and ASUS Memtweak don't work with the 6950X even to read the timings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I can tighten things up a bit...


Can Aida read the timings? I think the most recent version's notes claimed compatibility with Broadwell-E.

Very nice work btw, looks like you got memory pretty close to what you had on your 5960x.


----------



## johnd0e

Everytime i see you post your 6950x i get closer and closer to buying one myself. Trying to hold out long as possible


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Can Aida read the timings? I think the most recent version's notes claimed compatibility with Broadwell-E.
> 
> Very nice work btw, looks like you got memory pretty close to what you had on your 5960x.


thanks...
why yes it can! +1


Yeah - a little additional tightening and R/C is same as with the 5960X, Write is 20K higher!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnd0e*
> 
> Everytime i see you post your 6950x i get closer and closer to buying one myself. Trying to hold out long as possible


dayum expensive... but for some apps, it just smokes 'em. I'm running pretty high voltages, but that's why it has a warranty and ITP.









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







if it could do command rate 1, AID64 mem bench would be in the 90s.


----------



## johnd0e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> dayum expensive... but for some apps, it just smokes 'em. I'm running pretty high voltages, but that's why it has a warranty and ITP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if it could do command rate 1, AID64 mem bench would be in the 90s.


Yea shes a pretty penny. But cant take money with me when im gone, so might as well spend it while im here.....or something like that.

Got some other stuff to take care of first but every week that goes by i get more and more of an urge to buy one.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnd0e*
> 
> Yea shes a pretty penny. But cant take money with me when im gone, so might as well spend it while im here.....or something like that.
> 
> Got some other stuff to take care of first but every week that goes by i get more and more of an urge to buy one.


Recommending someone buy this cpu can be like taking fishing hints from a relative back from Stan.









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Certainly been a challenge tuning it up, but a fun challenge for sure. Best thing about it is the IPC/response is more like a 6700K than a 5960X is.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected], cache 3.8, AVX 4.1 --- 3200 13-14-15-32-2T --- 1.45V vdimm --- 1.208V VSA (!) -- GSAT 1h
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately AsRock TC and ASUS Memtweak don't work with the 6950X even to read the timings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I can tighten things up a bit...


Damn! The AIDA latencies not great, but the memory reads, writes and copies (what counts) ... damn!


----------



## Scrimstar

What's better

[email protected]

or

[email protected]


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Damn! The AIDA latencies not great, but the memory reads, writes and copies (what counts) ... damn!


the Write speed really surprised me. +20K vs 3200c13-13-13-28-1T on the 5960X with cache at 42. Cache on this 6950X is only 3.8... atm.









_______________________

ignore the overall score - switched off one TX to run realbench... Physics score is pretty good for 24/7 clocks.


----------



## Silent Scone

lol, 27k physics is insane.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> What's better
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> or
> 
> [email protected]


Almost a how long is a piece of string question. Depends on the application, but the difference will be negligible


----------



## Kimir

@Jpmboy have you tried the Mem TweakIt-V2.02.25 from R5E10?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> @Jpmboy have you tried the Mem TweakIt-V2.02.25 from R5E10?


no.. let me look for it.









edit: post a link, not on the US website...


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> no.. let me look for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: post a link, not on the US website...


In the OC pack over here: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=157577


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> In the OC pack over here: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=157577


lol - downloaded that a fwe days ago... haven't unzipped it yet.









(it works! but I can;t upload pictures in the AM here... known OCN issue)


----------



## Subsider

Move from standard IO Latency offset of 21/21 one value higher.Apply and reboot.You will notice tighter RTL/IO.Repeat this until you fail to POST.Go back one step and you have the tightets RTL/IOL combination that your system can handle at this scenario


----------



## Subsider

having a problem posting here today . above is how I tighten latencies ,info I picked up from another forum . works perfectly .


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subsider*
> 
> having a problem posting here today . above is how I tighten latencies ,info I picked up from another forum . works perfectly .


which forum is that? can you link me please?

Also where to download the memtweakit software?

I also did this with only change 1st timing (11-11-11-24) with 1T cycle, not sure if it's normal or not, can anyone comment on the aida64 result below?


----------



## Subsider

looks normal to me . I believe you should have memtweak on you mobo support/driver disk


----------



## Silent Scone

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subsider*
> 
> having a problem posting here today . above is how I tighten latencies ,info I picked up from another forum . works perfectly .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subsider*
> 
> Move from standard IO Latency offset of 21/21 one value higher.Apply and reboot.You will notice tighter RTL/IO.Repeat this until you fail to POST.Go back one step and you have the tightets RTL/IOL combination that your system can handle at this scenario


How did you test stability after making these changes? These settings are auto configured during memory training, and stability settings will vary from kit to kit and dependant on the frequency applied. Normally when straying from the default values set during POST, excessive voltage is normally required on the DIMM side in order to compensate (for slew rate / IO drive). In short for what the aim is here, these adjustments are normally best left for benchmarking. The boards do a pretty good job of this already.


----------



## Subsider

cinebench/realbench encoding, Aida ... for quick tests and memtest and prime to be sure .


----------



## KedarWolf

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subsider*
> 
> Move from standard IO Latency offset of 21/21 one value higher.Apply and reboot.You will notice tighter RTL/IO.Repeat this until you fail to POST.Go back one step and you have the tightets RTL/IOL combination that your system can handle at this scenario


Would this also work for a 5930k or 5960x or only the new chips?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Would this also work for a 5930k or 5960x or only the new chips?


latency offset is a z170 thing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subsider*
> 
> cinebench/realbench encoding, Aida ... for quick tests and memtest and prime to be sure .


folk here appreciate evidence.. eg, pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## oparr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subsider*
> 
> having a problem posting here today . above is how I tighten latencies ,info I picked up from another forum . works perfectly .


Quote:


> info I picked up from another forum


Source link may increase credibility;

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?75147-HOW-TO-!-Properly-Adjust-RTL-IO-on-Maximus-VIII-Series-!


----------



## KedarWolf

When I left for work eight hours ago my 128Gb of Corsair 3000 DDR4 at 300MHZ was at 100% after running for seven hours so I'm sure it'll be over 200% when I get home in a few hours. I had hell trying to get Linux Mint installed on my X99-A II, no amount of tweaking will get it to work or boot the install CD and I've been using Linux since 1996.







I wanted to run two hours of stressapptest or whatever it's called. but HCI MemTest works and I sleep seven hours and another ten at work.

I'll post my results when i get home. I'm really sure if i got to 100%, 200% won't crash or have errors. I'm really happy to have my 128GB at 3000MHZ and I'm using the 2666MHZ XMP sub timings for this motherboard.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> When I left for work eight hours ago my 128Gb of Corsair 3000 DDR4 at 300MHZ was at 100% after running for seven hours so I'm sure it'll be over 200% when I get home in a few hours. I had hell trying to get Linux Mint installed on my X99-A II, no amount of tweaking will get it to work or boot the install CD and I've been using Linux since 1996.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to run two hours of stressapptest or whatever it's called. but HCI MemTest works and I sleep seven hours and another ten at work.
> 
> I'll post my results when i get home. I'm really sure if i got to 100%, 200% won't crash or have errors. I'm really happy to have my 128GB at 3000MHZ and I'm using the 2666MHZ XMP sub timings for this motherboard.


great job you got there!


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> When I left for work eight hours ago my 128Gb of Corsair 3000 DDR4 at 300MHZ was at 100% after running for seven hours so I'm sure it'll be over 200% when I get home in a few hours. I had hell trying to get Linux Mint installed on my X99-A II, no amount of tweaking will get it to work or boot the install CD and I've been using Linux since 1996.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to run two hours of stressapptest or whatever it's called. but HCI MemTest works and I sleep seven hours and another ten at work.
> 
> I'll post my results when i get home. I'm really sure if i got to 100%, 200% won't crash or have errors. I'm really happy to have my 128GB at 3000MHZ and I'm using the 2666MHZ XMP sub timings for this motherboard.


Kedarwolf, I have little experience with Linux, you probably already know this, but have you disabled CSM/Secure Boot? That was required for me to get a bootable dvd working.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> When I left for work eight hours ago my 128Gb of Corsair 3000 DDR4 at 300MHZ was at 100% after running for seven hours so I'm sure it'll be over 200% when I get home in a few hours. I had hell trying to get Linux Mint installed on my X99-A II, no amount of tweaking will get it to work or boot the install CD and I've been using Linux since 1996.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to run two hours of stressapptest or whatever it's called. but HCI MemTest works and I sleep seven hours and another ten at work.
> 
> I'll post my results when i get home. I'm really sure if i got to 100%, 200% won't crash or have errors. I'm really happy to have my 128GB at 3000MHZ and I'm using the 2666MHZ XMP sub timings for this motherboard.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*


That's a very impressive result, and enough coverage to add you to the table









Now, 1T?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's a very impressive result, and enough coverage to add you to the table
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, 1T?


I'm doing 15-16-16-35-1T 2666 as we speak,. I find I get about 1k better in AIDA cache and memory test at 2666 with those timings. Was at about 90% overnight and now I'm at work 10 hours. I tried 16-17-17-36 1T 3000MHZ but it froze.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I'm doing 15-16-16-35-1T 2666 as we speak,. I find I get about 1k better in AIDA cache and memory test at 2666 with those timings. Was at about 90% overnight and now I'm at work 10 hours. I tried 16-17-17-36 1T 3000MHZ but it froze.


Froze during HCI? That's not as sad smiley face as you'd probably imagine. Who know's, with some tweaking you may be able to get 1t working. Maybe worth trying uncore voltage (or better still back uncore off a notch) and VCCSA at first. Wouldn't get too upset if not however. 3000 1T with that much memory is probably a stretch too far for quite a few samples.


----------



## djgar

My freezing moments usually come from cache instability, which Scone covers above. But who knows ...


----------



## KedarWolf

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Froze during HCI? That's not as sad smiley face as you'd probably imagine. Who know's, with some tweaking you may be able to get 1t working. Maybe worth trying uncore voltage (or better still back uncore off a notch) and VCCSA at first. Wouldn't get too upset if not however. 3000 1T with that much memory is probably a stretch too far for quite a few samples.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> My freezing moments usually come from cache instability, which Scone covers above. But who knows ...


Cache is fine at 3000 2T and and 2666 1T but I may try more RAM voltage and upping the System Agent. Maybe even Extreme instead of Optimized on RAM.

I do want to keep the 2666 sub timings if I can, I get good increase in AIDA cache and memory with them.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> false
> 
> Cache is fine at 3000 2T and and 2666 1T but I may try more RAM voltage and upping the System Agent. Maybe even Extreme instead of Optimized on RAM.
> 
> I do want to keep the 2666 sub timings if I can, I get good increase in AIDA cache and memory with them.


Wait, reread that what you peeps said. My cache is at 1.275GHZ and I'm already using 1.328v, this chip needs high v's on cache. You think I'm okay raising it to 1.338 and am I pushing it? or would more voltage to RAM and System Agent cover it you think?

Edit: On water with current settings while RealBenching my temps are around 70C.


----------



## Jpmboy

still don;t see an entry in the table for BW-E 64 GB.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Wait, reread that what you peeps said. My cache is at 1.275GHZ and I'm already using 1.328v, this chip needs high v's on cache. You think I'm okay raising it to 1.338 and am I pushing it? or would more voltage to RAM and System Agent cover it you think?
> 
> Edit: On water with current settings while RealBenching my temps are around 70C.


What is your cache / uncore multiplier? Is the cache manual or offset? 1.275GHz seems awfully low at max turbo ...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> What is your cache / uncore multiplier? Is the cache manual or offset? 1.275GHz seems awfully low at max turbo ...


Sorry, meant 4.250GHZ.

Please don't make me number, I don't want to number.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Sorry, meant 4.250GHZ.
> 
> Please don't make me number, I don't want to number.


Aahhh ... that's more like it









No worries - we understand, you're more than a number


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> still don;t see an entry in the table for BW-E 64 GB.


lol will add shortly, hold your horses! Not often one can say that to someone who owns horses


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Aahhh ... that's more like it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries - we understand, you're more than a number


I'm tired of numbers defining me, my GPA, my weight, my first degree murder convictions, my grades, it isn't right.


----------



## djgar

If that next to the last is more than 0, you are DEFINITELY NOT a number!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Froze during HCI? That's not as sad smiley face as you'd probably imagine. Who know's, with some tweaking you may be able to get 1t working. Maybe worth trying uncore voltage (or better still back uncore off a notch) and VCCSA at first. Wouldn't get too upset if not however. 3000 1T with that much memory is probably a stretch too far for quite a few samples.


Prelim run at 16-18-18-36 1T at same 2666 sub timings with LESS VCCSA at 1.088v in HWInfo, was at 1.15v, seems to be stable. I increased cache voltage just a tad to 1.330v from 1.228 and seems to be okay running AIDA cache stability test.









Cache has vdroop though and runs at 1.313v to 1.325v.

I tried 16-17-17-36 1T at 1.15v and 1.20V and got errors in HCI almost immediately. Seems on this chip more isn't better though I never tried with that voltage at 16-17-17-36 1T.


----------



## KedarWolf

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Prelim run at 16-18-18-36 1T at same 2666 sub timings with LESS VCCSA at 1.088v in HWInfo, was at 1.15v, seems to be stable. I increased cache voltage just a tad to 1.330v from 1.228 and seems to be okay running AIDA cache stability test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cache has vdroop though and runs at 1.313v to 1.325v.
> 
> I tried 16-17-17-36 1T at 1.15v and 1.20V and got errors in HCI almost immediately. Seems on this chip more isn't better though I never tried with that voltage at 16-17-17-36 1T.


Spoke too soon, just froze at 1.088 System Agent.


----------



## ssateneth

Try VCCIO instead of system agent. I had issues getting strings of 8 errors in a row in HCI memtest at 3000MHz 15-15-15-35 1T quad channel. Increased CPU VCCIO from 1.05 to 1.2, now I can run 3066MHz 15-15-15-35 1T with no errors.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Try VCCIO instead of system agent. I had issues getting strings of 8 errors in a row in HCI memtest at 3000MHz 15-15-15-35 1T quad channel. Increased CPU VCCIO from 1.05 to 1.2, now I can run 3066MHz 15-15-15-35 1T with no errors.


1.2v VCCIO didn't help.

But I have gotten really great timings at 2666 by raising it to 1.15v (as high as it'll go without going purple).

I'm pretty happy with these results with a sub $300 USD motherboard and a 5930k. RMAing my 5960x and R5E when I get paid next week, I killed them both.









Edit: I'm using the 2333MHZ sub timings.


----------



## KedarWolf

Dropped CPU and cache lower, memory the same. I'd get instabilities on RealBench and i'm pushing 75-81 on cores with 4.625/4.375 so I won't raise voltages higher to get stable.









At these settings I'm stable and getting around 70C with 1.3v CPU, 1.3V Cache.


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice! Any chance of seeing a memtweakit shot of 3000 2T?

Also will add results today, slacking a bit


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 1.2v VCCIO didn't help.
> 
> But I have gotten really great timings at 2666 by raising it to 1.15v (as high as it'll go without going purple).
> 
> I'm pretty happy with these results with a sub $300 USD motherboard and a 5930k. RMAing my 5960x and R5E when I get paid next week, I killed them both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I'm using the 2333MHZ sub timings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


try increasing tREFI to 18000 to 20000 and run aid membench.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> try increasing tREFI to 18000 to 20000 and run aid membench.


TREFi on Auto with 2200MHZ sub timings. 12-13-13-32 1T at 2666MHZ.



TREFi at 22066, 2200 sub timings, 12-13-13-32 1T 2666MHZ again. But haven't stress tested it.


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected] 4.3/3.7 --- 64GB G.Skill 3200c14 Trident Z @ 3400c14. VDIMM 1.475 training, 1.45 Eventual. VSA 1.16V. GSAT 1 hour

will post up timings window once back in windows.

@silent scone - need to update before the next platform launches.









edit: added settings:


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected] 4.3/3.7 --- 64GB G.Skill 3200c14 Trident Z @ 3400c14. VDIMM 1.475 training, 1.45 Eventual. VSA 1.16V. GSAT 1 hour
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> will post up timings window once back in windows.
> 
> @silent scone - need to update before the next platform launches.


Nice! The one thing I don't like about GSAT is it has no identifying run data - I could make a run at auto settings and it looks the same as a successful OC run - easy to fake an awesome run







present company excluded of course!


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected] 4.3/3.7 --- 64GB G.Skill 3200c14 Trident Z @ 3400c14. VDIMM 1.475 training, 1.45 Eventual. VSA 1.16V. GSAT 1 hour
> 
> will post up timings window once back in windows.
> 
> @silent scone - need to update before the next platform launches.


With strap 100 ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Nice! The one thing I don't like about GSAT is it has no identifying run data - I could make a run at auto settings and it looks the same as a successful OC run - easy to fake an awesome run
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> present company excluded of course!


I guess two SS, scroll one up to top?
what settings? Time is in the window.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> With strap 100 ?


yes


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I guess two SS, scroll one up to top?
> what settings? Time is in the window.
> yes


What I meant was that neither the CPU speed nor DRAM timings are identified in a particular run in the command window, so all successful runs look the same regardless. I'm just being annoyingly anal


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected] 4.3/3.7 --- 64GB G.Skill 3200c14 Trident Z @ 3400c14. VDIMM 1.475 training, 1.45 Eventual. VSA 1.16V. GSAT 1 hour
> 
> will post up timings window once back in windows.
> 
> @silent scone - need to update before the next platform launches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: added settings:


Sorry! 64GB results added, Captain!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> What I meant was that neither the CPU speed nor DRAM timings are identified in a particular run in the command window, so all successful runs look the same regardless. I'm just being annoyingly anal


ah, yeah very true. I havve yet to get dmidecode to work right either.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sorry! 64GB results added, Captain!


----------



## Cryptopone

Been following this thread and wanted to add my results to the mix. 4.3 ghz seems to be my wall unless I want to push past 1.3 vcore, but I'd still like to try to see what my new rig has to offer.

CPU: 6850k @ 4.3ghz (downclocked to 4.0 ghz with avx)
RAM: GSkill 4x16GB @ 3200 Mhz CL15 (F4-3200C15Q-64GTZ)
Mobo: Asus X99 Strix
Cooler: Noctua NH-D15

Vcore: 1.280
Cache Voltage: 1.210
VCCIO CPU 1.200


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ Nice! 64gb on the Strix.


----------



## GRABibus

I got my new Mobo on last Friday (ASUS X99-Deluxe II).

GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/4.5---3200Mhz-C16-17-17-36-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI 3100% (12 hours)

Mobo : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin "Bios reported value" : 1.824V (Manually in Bios => 1.8V)

http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=16061307305517369814307813.png


----------



## [email protected]

Ahh, someone that is in to Battlefront...


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Ahh, someone that is in to Battlefront...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I got my new Mobo on last Friday (ASUS X99-Deluxe II).
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/4.5---3200Mhz-C16-17-17-36-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI 3100% (12 hours)
> 
> Mobo : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
> Vccin "Bios reported value" : 1.824V (Manually in Bios => 1.8V)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=16061307305517369814307813.png


if I remember correctly(?) - you now have a cache at 4.5.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if I remember correctly(?) - you now have a cache at 4.5.


Yes. Formerly 3.9GHz with MSI MOBO.
I have now to test with OCCT...









But I am quite surprised that my CPU produces +5°C to +6°C than with my former MSI MOBO, with same cooling, same Vcore, same Vccin, same Vring and same frequency.
What is strange also is that it is when I set the RAM overclock and the RAM voltage at 1.35V that I see this phenomena.
If I only overclock CPU core and CPU cach and let RAM frequency and Vram on auto, my temps are much lower, even than with the former MOBO....

If someone would have an explanation....


----------



## MR-e

OC'ing the ram will increase the load of the IMC, which is located on the CPU. This is reasonable to assume that your CPU temps increased due to your Cache OC'd to 4.5GHz and ram to 3200MHz, when compared to your previous results with the MSI board.


----------



## stargate125645

I have my cache OCed to 4.3GHz at present on my 5930K. It was higher until the summer temperatures made me drop it down. At any rate, I understand this is a higher OC for cache than a lot of people are using (though I see someone above is running 4.5), so I don't have a lot to go on from others. With it my RAM will operate at 3200MHz with 4x8GB. My strap is 100 at present so all OC is done with a multiplier.

From what I've read, I will need to use a strap of 125, which will mean I will need to lower both cache and core multipliers, but I'd like to know if I should aim for the current frequency for the cache with the 125 strap, or if I should expect the new cache frequency to be lower with the faster RAM speed? I'm guessing that I will have to lower cache frequency; I'm just not sure where that cutoff is, and if it's due to the chip itself (i.e. each chip is different) or some other factor(s). I'm also curious what sort of cache frequency drop would be required to offset the RAM frequency increase in terms of synthetic performance benchmarks.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Yes. Formerly 3.9GHz with MSI MOBO.
> I have now to test with OCCT...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I am quite surprised that my CPU produces +5°C to +6°C than with my former MSI MOBO, with same cooling, same Vcore, same Vccin, same Vring and same frequency.
> What is strange also is that it is when I set the RAM overclock and the RAM voltage at 1.35V that I see this phenomena.
> If I only overclock CPU core and CPU cach and let RAM frequency and Vram on auto, my temps are much lower, even than with the former MOBO....
> 
> If someone would have an explanation....


cache from 39 to 45!! that's why the temps are higher.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I got my new Mobo on last Friday (ASUS X99-Deluxe II).
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/4.5---3200Mhz-C16-17-17-36-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI 3100% (12 hours)
> 
> Mobo : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
> Vccin "Bios reported value" : 1.824V (Manually in Bios => 1.8V)
> 
> http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=16061307305517369814307813.png


Nice work, will add shortly


----------



## GRABibus

Where can I download GSAT ?








I don't find it...


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Where can I download GSAT ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find it...


This should help you.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?73665-Our-preferred-memory-stress-test
https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/stressapptest


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I got my new Mobo on last Friday (ASUS X99-Deluxe II).
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.5/4.5---3200Mhz-C16-17-17-36-1T----1.35v---SA Auto---HCI 3100% (12 hours)
> 
> Mobo : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
> Vccin "Bios reported value" : 1.824V (Manually in Bios => 1.8V)
> 
> http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=16061307305517369814307813.png


Curious, what are your core and cache voltages for that 4.5/4.5? I'm assuming you're not actually maxing out at 1.17v for 4.5Ghz for the core and that's just downvolting due to adaptive, heh.


----------



## Baasha

Guys, I just got a 6950X - will it support the Dominator Platinum 3466Mhz 64gb kit? The 'default' speed of RAM for this CPU is 2400Mhz but my 5960X which has default of '2133Mhz' right now is running my RAM at 3000Mhz.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baasha*
> 
> Guys, I just got a 6950X - will it support the Dominator Platinum 3466Mhz 64gb kit? The 'default' speed of RAM for this CPU is 2400Mhz but my 5960X which has default of '2133Mhz' right now is running my RAM at 3000Mhz.


Link to kit or part number would help. Could well be possible but XMP may require some manual tuning.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Curious, what are your core and cache voltages for that 4.5/4.5? I'm assuming you're not actually maxing out at 1.17v for 4.5Ghz for the core and that's just downvolting due to adaptive, heh.


No adaptative, no offset.
I am in override mode.

Vccin=1.82V (Bios reported value for 1.8V manually)
Vcache=1.2V
Vid=1.17V.

I have no downvolting.

On my former MSI motherboard, I was also OCCT stable at Vcore=1.17V for 4.5GHz in ovverido mode. I have a good chip.


----------



## Baasha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Link to kit or part number would help. Could well be possible but XMP may require some manual tuning.


Here's the kit: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-DOMINATOR-Platinum-PC4-27700-Airflow/dp/B01CYILXA6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466191029&sr=8-1&keywords=dominator+64gb+3466

Are you running the 6950X? If so, how do you like it?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baasha*
> 
> Here's the kit: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-DOMINATOR-Platinum-PC4-27700-Airflow/dp/B01CYILXA6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466191029&sr=8-1&keywords=dominator+64gb+3466
> 
> Are you running the 6950X? If so, how do you like it?


6900K here. Liking it just fine









http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-platinum-series-64gb-4-x-16gb-ddr4-dram-3466mhz-c16-memory-kit-cmd64gx4m4b3466c16

That kit is for Z170, so range on X99 may vary. Opt for a kit that is specified for the platform you are using


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 6900K here. Liking it just fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-platinum-series-64gb-4-x-16gb-ddr4-dram-3466mhz-c16-memory-kit-cmd64gx4m4b3466c16
> 
> That kit is for Z170, so range on X99 may vary. Opt for a kit that is specified for the platform you are using


Just ordered my 6900K from Provantage







. Will be running with this kit ...

gskill f4-3200c14q-32gvr


----------



## Baasha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 6900K here. Liking it just fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-platinum-series-64gb-4-x-16gb-ddr4-dram-3466mhz-c16-memory-kit-cmd64gx4m4b3466c16
> 
> That kit is for Z170, so range on X99 may vary. Opt for a kit that is specified for the platform you are using


hmm I didn't notice that.. so will it not work on the RVE?

What is the best/fastest 64gb RAM out there for the RVE?


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baasha*
> 
> hmm I didn't notice that.. so will it not work on the RVE?
> 
> What is the best/fastest 64gb RAM out there for the RVE?


RAM is RAM, kinda. Using a kit labeled as dual channel only (or z170 certified and not x99 certified) means you'll be on your own on making it work; manufacturer won't help you. The XMP timings may only be valid in a dual channel configuration so you will need to manually set compatible timings yourself. But using a better binned kit usually means better potential anyways (lower timings and/or higher frequency). I'm interested in the 3600MHz CAS15 kits myself, but it's out of my price range for the time being.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baasha*
> 
> hmm I didn't notice that.. so will it not work on the RVE?
> 
> What is the best/fastest 64gb RAM out there for the RVE?


ssateneth has it pretty much on the head. Normally if having to ask these questions, it's best to buy certified kits. Have a look through G.Skills offerings.

http://www.gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=64GB+%288GBx8%29&prop_6=0&prop_3=0&prop_4=0&prop_1=0&series=2482


----------



## GRABibus

I received my G.SKILL DDR4-3000.
Here is my new stable overclock :

[email protected]/4.5---3200MHz -15-16-16-36-1T----1.35v---SA 1.05v---HCI 3300%

Motherboard : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin=1,8V

http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=16062101512617369814325442.png


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks Grabibus, that is a very nice CPU you have there


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks Grabibus, that is a very nice CPU you have there


Sûre.








This is why I don't wanna upgrade for broadwell-E


----------



## Silent Scone

Just a current running entry from me to keep the Broadwell-E train running till my new kit arrives.

Prehistoric Corsair LPX 2666 C16 4x8GB.

Silent [email protected]/3.6---2666MHz -12-13-13-35-1T----1.45v---SA 1.15v----IO 1.1v ---- VCCIN 1.93v ----GSAT 1 Hour


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just a current running entry from me to keep the Broadwell-E train running till my new kit arrives.
> 
> Prehistoric Corsair LPX 2666 C16 4x8GB.
> 
> Silent [email protected]/3.6---2666MHz -12-13-13-35-1T----1.45v---SA 1.15v----IO 1.1v ---- VCCIN 1.93v ----GSAT 1 Hour


that's pretty good with that kit for sure!







what does AID64 membandwidth look like?


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I have my cache OCed to 4.3GHz at present on my 5930K. It was higher until the summer temperatures made me drop it down. At any rate, I understand this is a higher OC for cache than a lot of people are using (though I see someone above is running 4.5), so I don't have a lot to go on from others. With it my RAM will operate at 3200MHz with 4x8GB. My strap is 100 at present so all OC is done with a multiplier.
> 
> From what I've read, I will need to use a strap of 125, which will mean I will need to lower both cache and core multipliers, but I'd like to know if I should aim for the current frequency for the cache with the 125 strap, or if I should expect the new cache frequency to be lower with the faster RAM speed? I'm guessing that I will have to lower cache frequency; I'm just not sure where that cutoff is, and if it's due to the chip itself (i.e. each chip is different) or some other factor(s). I'm also curious what sort of cache frequency drop would be required to offset the RAM frequency increase in terms of synthetic performance benchmarks.


No thoughts?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> No thoughts?


what exactly is the question?


----------



## Jpmboy

if only I could get this to run @ 1T...


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> No thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly is the question?
Click to expand...

The questions in the post were as follows:
1) Should I aim for the current frequency for the cache (4.3 GHz) with the new 125 strap (current strap for 3200MHz is 100) that I will need to increase my RAM speed to 3400MHz on x99, or if I should expect the new cache frequency to be lower with the faster RAM speed?
2) Assuming I do need to drop the cache frequency, I'm also curious what sort of cache frequency drop would be required to offset the RAM frequency increase in terms of synthetic performance benchmarks. Specifically, is there a relationship between the two that is easy to calculate, or are benchmarks the only way to know?

I know real world performance would see a negligible gain from tweaking, but I'd like to try to get higher scores anyway, unless the drop in cache is most likely going to offset the improvement from RAM speed.

Edit: If I would not see benchmark performance improvement from increasing RAM speed, I can always focus on dropping my timings further instead and staying at 3200MHz and 4.3GHz cache.


----------



## Qwinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> The questions in the post were as follows:
> 1) Should I aim for the current frequency for the cache (4.3 GHz) with the new 125 strap (current strap for 3200MHz is 100) that I will need to increase my RAM speed to 3400MHz on x99, or if I should expect the new cache frequency to be lower with the faster RAM speed?


Well, you're going to have to choose either 4.25 or 4.375 for the cache as the multiplier will now be x125, which isn't divisible evenly into 4.30.

I personally wouldn't go to 125 strap just for a particular memory speed. 100 strap is preferable for adaptive voltage alone. I've also found that your mileage will vary on the "this particular frequency is best suited to this strap" statements. My kit works much better at 3000 Mhz on 100 strap than it does on 3200, the opposite is supposed to be true.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> The questions in the post were as follows:
> 1) Should I aim for the current frequency for the cache (4.3 GHz) with the new 125 strap (current strap for 3200MHz is 100) that I will need to increase my RAM speed to 3400MHz on x99, or if I should expect the new cache frequency to be lower with the faster RAM speed?
> 2) Assuming I do need to drop the cache frequency, I'm also curious what sort of cache frequency drop would be required to offset the RAM frequency increase in terms of synthetic performance benchmarks. Specifically, is there a relationship between the two that is easy to calculate, or are benchmarks the only way to know?
> 
> I know real world performance would see a negligible gain from tweaking, but I'd like to try to get higher scores anyway, unless the drop in cache is most likely going to offset the improvement from RAM speed.
> 
> Edit: If I would not see benchmark performance improvement from increasing RAM speed, I can always focus on dropping my timings further instead and staying at 3200MHz and 4.3GHz cache.


1) you do not need to use 125 strap for 3400 ram. Strap 100 works.
2) the relationship between cache (I/O) and ram throughput/bandwidth is best measured.
3) why lower cache? raise it if you can...
4) best solution? Get better cooling.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> The questions in the post were as follows:
> 1) Should I aim for the current frequency for the cache (4.3 GHz) with the new 125 strap (current strap for 3200MHz is 100) that I will need to increase my RAM speed to 3400MHz on x99, or if I should expect the new cache frequency to be lower with the faster RAM speed?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you're going to have to choose either 4.25 or 4.375 for the cache as the multiplier will now be x125, which isn't divisible evenly into 4.30.
> 
> I personally wouldn't go to 125 strap just for a particular memory speed. 100 strap is preferable for adaptive voltage alone. I've also found that your mileage will vary on the "this particular frequency is best suited to this strap" statements. My kit works much better at 3000 Mhz on 100 strap than it does on 3200, the opposite is supposed to be true.
Click to expand...

I will try to make it work with a strap of 100. Thank you for the advice!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 1) you do not need to use 125 strap for 3400 ram. Strap 100 works.
> 2) the relationship between cache (I/O) and ram throughput/bandwidth is best measured.
> 3) why lower cache? raise it if you can...
> 4) best solution? Get better cooling.


Thank you for the advice! I will try with a 100 strap. I don't want to lower my cache if I don't have to; I've only read that it may be necessary if my IMC is out of bandwidth. For example, it was said (maybe even in this thread) that RAM used with Skylake will go higher because X99 is quad channel while Z170 is dual channel, so the bandwidth is limited by the X99 IMC at lower frequencies. Is that misinformation?

As for cooling, it doesn't get better than what I have unless I go to a _custom_ water cooling loop, which is a lot of time, money, and effort I'll be devoting to dual GPUs within the next year. I know I could probably hit 4.7GHz or more given my voltage is only 1.23V for 4.6GHz, but water is not worth the trouble for me. I am not super fond of the high 70s/low 80s temperature in summer if I load the system at full bore for a while, but gaming never goes above the 50s so I can deal with it.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I will try to make it work with a strap of 100. Thank you for the advice!
> Thank you for the advice! I will try with a 100 strap. I don't want to lower my cache if I don't have to; I've only read that it may be necessary if my IMC is out of bandwidth. For example, it was said (maybe even in this thread) that RAM used with Skylake will go higher because X99 is quad channel while Z170 is dual channel, so the bandwidth is limited by the X99 IMC at lower frequencies. Is that misinformation?
> 
> As for cooling, it doesn't get better than what I have unless I go to a _custom_ water cooling loop, which is a lot of time, money, and effort I'll be devoting to dual GPUs within the next year. I know I could probably hit 4.7GHz or more given my voltage is only 1.23V for 4.6GHz, but water is not worth the trouble for me. I am not super fond of the high 70s/low 80s temperature in summer if I load the system at full bore for a while, but gaming never goes above the 50s so I can deal with it.


The bandwidth/throughput on x99 is much higher than SKL... I've barely matched Read/Write/Copy of 2400 on x99 with 4000 ram on a 6700K.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks Grabibus, that is a very nice CPU you have there


Hope you will add this to the table


----------



## Jpmboy




----------



## Silent Scone

Lol will have to add a note to the OP at this rate


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Lol will have to add a note to the OP at this rate


I Was talking about My datas ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I Was talking about My datas ?


I was meaning a note that says all results will be added (eventually)


----------



## GRABibus

I am currently running HCI memtest at 3333MHz 15-16-16-36-1T @ 1.38vdimm. on strap 125.
if stable, I Will post screenshot as usual ?


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I was meaning a note that says all results will be added (eventually)


Ok. ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Lol will have to add a note to the OP at this rate


yellow sticky - post it note.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yellow sticky - post it note.


Yes, yes I use plenty of those







Hey, it's not all about the chart


----------



## Synik

So on xmp profile I ran memtest86 and looped without error over night but has error in memory stress test. Bad ram or am I running too much in background? I have 6800k so was running 6 at 1750 together at same time


----------



## Jpmboy

lol - yellow, flaming orange... and bright pink!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> So on xmp profile I ran memtest86 and looped without error over night but has error in memory stress test. Bad ram or am I running too much in background? I have 6800k so was running 6 at 1750 together at same time


memtest86 really does not test the OC. What memory stress test did you use?


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - yellow, flaming orange... and bright pink!
> memtest86 really does not test the OC. What memory stress test did you use?


HCI Memtest http://hcidesign.com/memtest/

Was 16 16 16 36 t1 1.35 v. 3200ghz Which is what they are rated for.

http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemNumber=N82E16820231915

Also get bsod. Only when running that test not when running any other benchmarks like Aida or Realbench Warrant exchange? The sat test may be better? Do I need to turn off all background tasks?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> HCI Memtest http://hcidesign.com/memtest/
> 
> Was 16 16 16 36 t1 1.35 v. 3200ghz Which is what they are rated for.
> 
> http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemNumber=N82E16820231915
> 
> Also get bsod. Only when running that test not when running any other benchmarks like Aida or Realbench Warrant exchange? The sat test may be better? Do I need to turn off all background tasks?


If you have lots of applications polling hardware, HCI is quite good at worming out instability quickly. Try running Google Stress app, this test will isolates the memory subsystem a lot better.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> HCI Memtest http://hcidesign.com/memtest/
> 
> Was 16 16 16 36 t1 1.35 v. 3200ghz Which is what they are rated for.
> 
> http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemNumber=N82E16820231915
> 
> Also get bsod. Only when running that test not when running any other benchmarks like Aida or Realbench Warrant exchange? The sat test may be better? Do I need to turn off all background tasks?


yeah - as scone said, GSAT (linux) can isolate the ram better and reveal any instability a lot quicker.

It's kinda hard to offer suggestions when we do not know what equip you are working with. Fill out rig builder and add your rid to your sig. Link in my sig.


----------



## Synik

is it possible to install Linux on usb flash drive to do this?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> is it possible to install Linux on usb flash drive to do this?


Yes, although would recommend using a SATA HDD as it is less likely to become corrupted in the event the system is quite unstable


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> is it possible to install Linux on usb flash drive to do this?


before trying GSAT, what VSa, cache, vcache, and cpu VCCCIO are you running? It may simply be adjusting some voltages for HCI stability.


----------



## Synik

Yea I didn’t realize it tests cache and now I am able to run memtest for 20 minutes plus no errors or bsod once I upped the cache voltage a little more. unfortunately I cannot do anything with this ram outside of its rated value without getting errors. Oh well. Not sure if it I worth $70 premium to lower timing from cl16 to 13 for exact same freq and gb size. I guess since it is working as intended I should just keep it. I don’t do that much stuff that requires very fast ram. Mostly gaming and little adobe premier


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> Yea I didn't realize it tests cache and now I am able to run memtest for 20 minutes plus no errors or bsod once I upped the cache voltage a little more. unfortunately I cannot do anything with this ram outside of its rated value without getting errors. Oh well. Not sure if it I worth $70 premium to lower timing from cl16 to 13 for exact same freq and gb size. I guess since it is working as intended I should just keep it. I don't do that much stuff that requires very fast ram. Mostly gaming and little adobe premier


as long as it's stable, it is hard to notice a difference in ram as you say.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> as long as it's stable, it is hard to notice a difference in ram as you say.


But the benchmarks look so much nicer!


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ lol.

Hey guys - you know, when you run GSAT and it finishes ... you see Passed, no hardware errors.. and "_Please Verify no Corrected Errors_". Wut?


----------



## djgar

I always wondered about that - some feature we haven't seen in action?


----------



## jdallara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I always wondered about that - some feature we haven't seen in action?


I think it is referring to ECC memory that will log errors that are correcte .


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdallara*
> 
> I think it is referring to ECC memory that will log errors that are correcte .


yeah - that sounds correct.


----------



## misoonigiri

deleted, wrong thread sorry!


----------



## Jpmboy

I was able to get 3467 stable withg 64GB using GSAT... but when I tested it in windows using AID64 memory bandwidth, it was about 5K lower across the board - even with tightened secondaries. Strange:


----------



## Kimir

Don't you have a dropped channel there, because the bandwidth is wrong in GSAT as well.


----------



## Ragsters

I read some of the earlier part of this thread and noticed people were only offering help for Skylake. Is that still the case? I have Broadwell-e and I need help.


----------



## djgar

I haven't been able to get 3400 or higher at any timings on my 6900K even with my 3400-17-18-18 rated set. I can't even get the rated 3200 14-14-14-34 on my current set, only 14-15-14 but can do 3370 there. I'm guessing it's my MB?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> I read some of the earlier part of this thread and noticed people were only offering help for Skylake. Is that still the case? I have Broadwell-e and I need help.


That's not true, this thread started with the introduction of DDR4 with HW-E. If you are using HW-E and BW-E, you are welcome like the thread name mention.
Just shout your question and if someone can be of help, they will answer.


----------



## kgtuning

Looks like I will be buying another set of ram for my X99/5820 rig... apparently messed up two modules pulling the g.skill heatsinks off. good thing it was a cheap set. At least I still have 2X4gb to use.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I haven't been able to get 3400 or higher at any timings on my 6900K even with my 3400-17-18-18 rated set. I can't even get the rated 3200 14-14-14-34 on my current set, only 14-15-14 but can do 3370 there. I'm guessing it's my MB?


If that's the G.Skill TridentZ kit, I am operating at the specified 3200 14-14-14-34-1T with 1.35V, which means it will work if everything is cooperating. It's hard to say if it's the RAM, motherboard, or CPU. What cache and core frequency are you running? There are other speeds and voltages you can set in the BIOS that will affect memory stability with your chipset, I believe.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Don't you have a dropped channel there, because the bandwidth is wrong in GSAT as well.


no - all 64GB were there in Linux and Windows. Maybe just a bad divider or something.

I mean, I'm talkin 80K vs 86-87K:



vs:


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> If that's the G.Skill TridentZ kit, I am operating at the specified 3200 14-14-14-34-1T with 1.35V, which means it will work if everything is cooperating. It's hard to say if it's the RAM, motherboard, or CPU. What cache and core frequency are you running? There are other speeds and voltages you can set in the BIOS that will affect memory stability with your chipset, I believe.


I tried just about everything, spec'ed and lower settings included ... probably a luck of the draw thinghy


----------



## djgar

I should have asked - how do the Z170 dimms fare on the X99 platform?


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> If that's the G.Skill TridentZ kit, I am operating at the specified 3200 14-14-14-34-1T with 1.35V, which means it will work if everything is cooperating. It's hard to say if it's the RAM, motherboard, or CPU. What cache and core frequency are you running? There are other speeds and voltages you can set in the BIOS that will affect memory stability with your chipset, I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried just about everything, spec'ed and lower settings included ... probably a luck of the draw thinghy
Click to expand...

Assuming your signature is the rig about which you are talking, have you tried running it without offsets (adapative/dynamic voltage)? Sometimes that helps stability. Note also that adaptive/dynamic cache voltage is broken with Haswell-E above a certain frequency, but I'm not sure about Broadwell-E. Also, have you tried using a strap of 100?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Assuming your signature is the rig about which you are talking, have you tried running it without offsets (adapative/dynamic voltage)? Sometimes that helps stability. Note also that adaptive/dynamic cache voltage is broken with Haswell-E above a certain frequency, but I'm not sure about Broadwell-E. Also, have you tried using a strap of 100?


adaptive cache won;t work on BWE... I don't think it can work.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Assuming your signature is the rig about which you are talking, have you tried running it without offsets (adapative/dynamic voltage)? Sometimes that helps stability. Note also that adaptive/dynamic cache voltage is broken with Haswell-E above a certain frequency, but I'm not sure about Broadwell-E. Also, have you tried using a strap of 100?


Yep, that's the rig and my current stable 24/7.

Tried it all: offset, adaptive, straight, strap 100 (straight, adaptive & offset) and strap 125 (offset, straight) ... you name it. OK, no auto







. Maybe I should check out the higher straps.


----------



## Jpmboy

you are running BWE - right? HWE with the TZ 3200c14 kit is different in my experience (having run them on both a 5960X and a 6950X). regardless - even running looser primaries and 2T (yes.. 2T) on BWE the bandwidth (both AID64 and SISoft Sandra) is higher.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you are running BWE - right? HWE with the TZ 3200c14 kit is different in my experience (having run them on both a 5960X and a 6950X). regardless - even running looser primaries and 2T (yes.. 2T) on BWE the bandwidth (both AID64 and SISoft Sandra) is higher.


Higher than what?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Higher than what?


erm.. than it was at, actually tighter ram settings on my 5960x.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Higher than what?
> 
> 
> 
> erm.. than it was at, actually tighter ram settings on my 5960x.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make sense unless an improvement was made to the IMC, in which case it should be easier to get higher frequencies than with Haswell-E. Strange.


----------



## Yuhfhrh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That doesn't make sense unless an improvement was made to the IMC, in which case it should be easier to get higher frequencies than with Haswell-E. Strange.


There are also 2 more cores, the 5960X had more bandwidth than the 5930K/5820K.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That doesn't make sense unless an improvement was made to the IMC, in which case it should be easier to get higher frequencies than with Haswell-E. Strange.
> 
> 
> 
> There are also 2 more cores, the 5960X had more bandwidth than the 5930K/5820K.
Click to expand...

OK, now it makes sense. Thanks!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That doesn't make sense unless an improvement was made to the IMC, in which case it should be easier to get higher frequencies than with Haswell-E. Strange.


besides the core count... yes, higher frequencies are easier on BWE - the IMC is improved. I'm running 3400 24/7 and easily boot 3467 stable with this 64GB kit... 3600 looks possible


----------



## Ragsters

What test should I run to test memory stability with Broadwell -e?


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> What test should I run to test memory stability with Broadwell -e?


GSAT, HCI Memtest.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> GSAT, HCI Memtest.


Thanks!


----------



## djgar

Well, let's see how this one works out. ...

G.SKILL TridentZ F4-3733C17Q-16GTZ


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That doesn't make sense unless an improvement was made to the IMC, in which case it should be easier to get higher frequencies than with Haswell-E. Strange.
> 
> 
> 
> besides the core count... yes, higher frequencies are easier on BWE - the IMC is improved. I'm running 3400 24/7 and easily boot 3467 stable with this 64GB kit... 3600 looks possible
Click to expand...

Well, maybe if the price drops in half I will consider upgrading then, as the RAM I have should do the same as yours. I simply can't justify $1000 for no noticeable gain in performance at the moment.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ah, yeah very true. I havve yet to get dmidecode to work right either.


sudo dmidecode -t 2,4,17

This works (17 being the memory) but it's on the wordy side


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> sudo dmidecode -t 2,4,17
> 
> This works (17 being the memory) but it's on the wordy side


Thanks!.. I think this is where I'm gewtting th eissue.. library is not loading correctly?

sudo aptitude install i2c-tools
sudo modprobe eeprom
sudo modprobe i2c-i801


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Well, maybe if the price drops in half I will consider upgrading then, as the RAM I have should do the same as yours. I simply can't justify $1000 for no noticeable gain in performance at the moment.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thanks!.. I think this is where I'm gewtting th eissue.. library is not loading correctly?
> 
> sudo aptitude install i2c-tools
> sudo modprobe eeprom
> sudo modprobe i2c-i801


Hmmm, don't know - I just type that (nothing else that you show here) on Linux Mint 17.3 and I get the specified components. I recall 17 is memory, 2 or 4 is CPU, forget what I wanted with the remaining one


----------



## djgar

OK, I'm definitely going senile. I just realized my currently active dimm set is Z170 spec'ed ...









F4-3200C14Q-32GVR

Works pretty nicely OC from 3200 to 3370, even if 14-15-14 rather than 14-14-14


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> GSAT, HCI Memtest.


Im trying to use HCI memtest but I cant figure out how many instances of much memory I should be running. I have 32gb (2 x 16gb) of ram.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Im trying to use HCI memtest but I cant figure out how many instances of much memory I should be running. I have 32gb (2 x 16gb) of ram.


This stuff is in the op. Ideal configuration is one instance per thread, covering 90% of memory. You want to be leaving the OS with sufficient room to breathe


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you are running BWE - right? HWE with the TZ 3200c14 kit is different in my experience (having run them on both a 5960X and a 6950X). regardless - even running looser primaries and 2T (yes.. 2T) on BWE the bandwidth (both AID64 and SISoft Sandra) is higher.


I opted for this kit again, as the BWE stuff has yet to become available here (may never in fact). Doing well.


----------



## Kimir

I'm amazed by the write speed in Aida64 with BW-E. When I look at HW-E I do like R:80k W:70k C:80k (more or less) and that with 4.3-4.4 cache.. And with BW-E with 3.5 cache you pull almost 80k on write.
Kinda remind me of Ivy-E and oddity/bug of write speed being low, sometimes, when running ram at 2400Mhz when there is no issue at 2133 (comparing 2133 c8-10-10-21 to 2400 c9-11-11-24).


----------



## tistou77

I will like to see the difference in bandwidth (Aida64) with a 5930K and 6850K


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I opted for this kit again, as the BWE stuff has yet to become available here (may never in fact). Doing well.


Saweet! IDK, with my current config, 1T above 2666 is a code 53 with every setting I have tried on this 6950x... and this 64GB kit ran 12-12-12-28-1T 3200 with my 5960x on the same MB (where is my Mercury S8!!!).
not complaining tho, 3400 seems to be the sweetspot for this release:
Day driver settings...


erm.. you go back to 2 screens or is that the curved monitor?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> I'm amazed by the write speed in Aida64 with BW-E. When I look at HW-E I do like R:80k W:70k C:80k (more or less) and that with 4.3-4.4 cache.. And with BW-E with 3.5 cache you pull almost 80k on write.
> Kinda remind me of Ivy-E and oddity/bug of write speed being low, sometimes, when running ram at 2400Mhz when there is no issue at 2133 (comparing 2133 c8-10-10-21 to 2400 c9-11-11-24).


yes! the low write speeds on HWE was always a curiosity. lol - gotta love those IB-E 2133 timings.. and they are still running on my R4BE all day every day. that rig is never turned off.


----------



## Synik

Yea so I got memtest to work. My cache voltage needed to go up a little. Unfortanelty
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Saweet! IDK, with my current config, 1T above 2666 is a code 53 with every setting I have tried on this 6950x... and this 64GB kit ran 12-12-12-28-1T 3200 with my 5960x on the same MB (where is my Mercury S8!!!).
> not complaining tho, 3400 seems to be the sweetspot for this release:
> Day driver settings...
> 
> 
> erm.. you go back to 2 screens or is that the curved monitor?
> yes! the low write speeds on HWE was always a curiosity. lol - gotta love those IB-E 2133 timings.. and they are still running on my R4BE all day every day. that rig is never turned off.


What motherboard settings you using? I have everything on xmp and auto and getting errors. I think my ram is bad but might be my asus deluxe ii auto settings. I have no cpu overclock and ram is default xmp and getting hci memtest errors


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> Yea so I got memtest to work. My cache voltage needed to go up a little. Unfortanelty
> What motherboard settings you using? I have everything on xmp and auto and getting errors. I think my ram is bad but might be my asus deluxe ii auto settings. I have no cpu overclock and ram is default xmp and getting hci memtest errors


Have you read the BWE OC guide?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Saweet! IDK, with my current config, 1T above 2666 is a code 53 with every setting I have tried on this 6950x... and this 64GB kit ran 12-12-12-28-1T 3200 with my 5960x on the same MB (where is my Mercury S8!!!).
> not complaining tho, 3400 seems to be the sweetspot for this release:
> Day driver settings...
> 
> 
> erm.. you go back to 2 screens or is that the curved monitor?
> yes! the low write speeds on HWE was always a curiosity. lol - gotta love those IB-E 2133 timings.. and they are still running on my R4BE all day every day. that rig is never turned off.


Tight! (said the Priest). Besides the fact it's not command rate 1, of course









Not far off here, running a couple higher but haven't had time to test more over. Straight 14s requires a fair bit more juice.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I opted for this kit again, as the BWE stuff has yet to become available here (may never in fact). Doing well.


Nice! I can't get my GV to go 3400 - 3370 tops. Let's see how the 3733 TZ set works out. Unfortunately the Egg is appartently in Inventory mode, and Monday is the 4th ... patience, grasshopper ...









Oops - that's my VR kit, not GV - well, GVR ...


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Have you read the BWE OC guide?
> Tight! (said the Priest). Besides the fact it's not command rate 1, of course
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not far off here, running a couple higher but haven't had time to test more over. Straight 14s requires a fair bit more juice.


Yes the edge asus one. I tried everything and cant manage to keep memory from getting errors so I tried going to auto everything and still get errors. But I did notice voltages on motherboard can act strangely so may need tweaking. I might be doing something wrong or ram could be faulty.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> Yes the edge asus one. I tried everything and cant manage to keep memory from getting errors so I tried going to auto everything and still get errors.


With memory settings in auto and XMP disabled?


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> With memory settings in auto and XMP disabled?


No xmp is on but rest auto. So ram is running at rated speed. Otherwise it drops speed and has high timing.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Nice! I can't get my GV to go 3400 - 3370 tops. Let's see how the 3733 TZ set works out. Unfortunately the Egg is appartently in Inventory mode, and Monday is the 4th ... patience, grasshopper ...


You like to play the lottery, huh? The 3733c17 kit is z170, dual channel kit certified (and probably E-die).
Don't be surprised if it doesn't play well.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> No xmp is on but rest auto. So ram is running at rated speed. Otherwise it drops speed and has high timing.


Then this is overclocking. Test with XMP disabled and the memory at 2133.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You like to play the lottery, huh? The 3733c17 kit is z170, dual channel kit certified (and probably E-die).
> Don't be surprised if it doesn't play well.


No risk no gain







. My current kit is also Z170 dual channel, and is doing quite well, better than my F4-3400C16Q-16GRBD X99-certified quad channel kit


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> No risk no gain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . My current kit is also Z170 dual channel, and is doing quite well, better than my F4-3400C16Q-16GRBD X99-certified quad channel kit


The b die kits seem to play quite nicely. G.Skill have the best guardband, but trying to find the newer kits at present is quite difficult this side of the water, few and far between.


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Then this is overclocking. Test with XMP disabled and the memory at 2133.


lets say it is stable.. What then? Is there a more step by step guide to this?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The b die kits seem to play quite nicely. G.Skill have the best guardband, but trying to find the newer kits at present is quite difficult this side of the water, few and far between.


Is the F4-3733C17Q-16GTZ kit b-die?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Is the F4-3733C17Q-16GTZ kit b-die?


No, only module 8Gb


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> lets say it is stable.. What then? Is there a more step by step guide to this?


And you are sure you've read the overclocking guide?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> No, only module 8Gb


Dang! Thanks! Lottery here we go!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> Yea so I got memtest to work. My cache voltage needed to go up a little. Unfortanelty
> What motherboard settings you using? I have everything on xmp and auto and getting errors. I think my ram is bad but might be my asus deluxe ii auto settings. I have no cpu overclock and ram is default xmp and getting hci memtest errors


The 3200c16 kit is a lower bin IC, Try manual vs XMP or Auto... do a Load Optimized defaults, set 3200 and enter the primary timings (fist 4 timings) on the ram stick's label - change nothing else in the dram timing menu. set vdimm to 1.35V or 1.375V, VSA to auto. does it post, boot and run memtest?


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> The 3200c16 kit is a lower bin IC, Try manual vs XMP or Auto... do a Load Optimized defaults, set 3200 and enter the primary timings (fist 4 timings) on the ram stick's label - change nothing else in the dram timing menu. set vdimm to 1.35V or 1.375V, VSA to auto. does it post, boot and run memtest?


I got the 3200c14 gskills 4x8gb
In all cases it posts fine even at 13-13-13-28 t1. The issue I have is passing hci memtest even at default 14-14-14-34 t2


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> I got the 3200c14 gskills 4x8gb
> In all cases it posts fine even at 13-13-13-28 t1. The issue I have is passing hci memtest even at default 14-14-14-34 t2


You haven't responded to trying the memory at stock yet. Like with all platforms before it, memory overclocking may require user input on the relevant voltage rails. If you had read the overview, you would realise this.


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You haven't responded to trying the memory at stock yet. Like with all platforms before it, memory overclocking may require user input on the relevant voltage rails. If you had read the overview, you would realise this.


I will. These memory tests take forever


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> I got the 3200c14 gskills 4x8gb
> In all cases it posts fine even at 13-13-13-28 t1. The issue I have is passing hci memtest even at default 14-14-14-34 t2


oh - your sig rig had me thinking c16. anyway, if it is failing HCI memtest as you say, it is likely cache. remember, ram and cache are hooked. OC the ram, you may need to add cache voltage even at the stock cache multiplier.
Make a Linux Mint boot drive and use GSAT... 1 or 2 hours is all it takes.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> oh - your sig rig had me thinking c16. anyway, if it is failing HCI memtest as you say, it is likely cache. remember, ram and cache are hooked. OC the ram, you may need to add cache voltage even at the stock cache multiplier.
> Make a Linux Mint boot drive and use GSAT... 1 or 2 hours is all it takes.


I had problems getting stable with 14-14-14-34 but was fine with 14-15-14 stable.

Oops - should've quoted @Synik ...


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> oh - your sig rig had me thinking c16. anyway, if it is failing HCI memtest as you say, it is likely cache. remember, ram and cache are hooked. OC the ram, you may need to add cache voltage even at the stock cache multiplier.
> Make a Linux Mint boot drive and use GSAT... 1 or 2 hours is all it takes.


I have both kits right now. Both cant overclock at all. The c14 kit isn't stable at default but c16 kit is fine. That's why I was thinking it might be something else. Currently everything is auto no cache overclock at a
ll. c14 kit at no overclock 2600 c15 is stable but xmp it is not.


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I had problems getting stable with 14-14-14-34 but was fine with 14-15-14 stable.
> 
> Oops - should've quoted @Synik ...


But your blck is 125


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Saweet! IDK, with my current config, 1T above 2666 is a code 53 with every setting I have tried on this 6950x... and this 64GB kit ran 12-12-12-28-1T 3200 with my 5960x on the same MB (*where is my Mercury S8!!!*).


How many weeks are you in right now? I think last I read, lead other ppl have been saying lead times were in the 6 week range. I had to order mine from a third party website and then get the optional pieces I wanted separately to avoid the long delays of going caselabs direct.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> But your blck is 125


Yes, also a 6900K, but you never know


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> How many weeks are you in right now? I think last I read, lead other ppl have been saying lead times were in the 6 week range. I had to order mine from a third party website and then get the optional pieces I wanted separately to avoid the long delays of going caselabs direct.


yeah - I thought about doing exactly what you did ... shoulda coulda.








6 weeks is an eternity.


----------



## KedarWolf

X99-A II, G.Skill 8x4GB DDR4-3000 (F4-3000C15Q2-32GRBB) 5930k at 4.5GHZ/Cache 4.25GHZ


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice result, thanks









Although couple things, one being you can leave CKE in auto. OP covers this in the ROG timing overview:
Quote:


> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse width: This setting can be left on Auto for all overclocking. CKE defines the minimum number of clocks that must elapse before the system can transition from normal operating to low power state and vice versa.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> X99-A II, G.Skill 8x4GB DDR4-3000 (F4-3000C15Q2-32GRBB) 5930k at 4.5GHZ/Cache 4.25GHZ
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


OK, I'm totally impressed (and depressed







) - how did you get such a higher memory benchmark with same # of cores and lower speeds and timings than mine? Out with it! We have ways of making you talk (figuratively speaking of course)!









Cache speed is actually 4179:


----------



## Silent Scone

For a start, he will recieve a bump for setting his refresh interval too high.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> For a start, he will recieve a bump for setting his refresh interval too high.


You lost me. Do you mean for _not_ setting a high refresh interval? Otherwise I don't understand what the refresh interval does that you mentioned earlier as it doesn't do what you'd think.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> OK, I'm totally impressed (and depressed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) - how did you get such a higher memory benchmark with same # of cores and lower speeds and timings than mine? Out with it! We have ways of making you talk (figuratively speaking of course)!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cache speed is actually 4179:


What I did was put RAM on XMP all my sub timings at Auto except 15-15-15-33 1T, set RAM to 2000MHZ in BIOS on 125 strap, reboot, saw the Auto XMP sub timings which will be lower on XMP when using a low RAM speed, manually set the timings as they appeared in Auto, maxed out DRAM Refresh Interval at 32767, it's as high as it goes. Set DRAM REF Cycle Time to 278, Four ACT Win Time (tFAW) to 20 (4X Read To Pre Time), Read To PRE time (tRTP) to 5. Then reboot into BIOS and reset to 3000MHZ. You may have to use a bit higher DRAM REF Cycle Time then 278 and lower DRAM Refresh Interval then 32767 to get stable at 3200MHZ.

If you're using the 100 Strap try it with 2133 RAM speed. if you PC won't boot after doing that, try one RAM speed higher in BIOS and same thing. You want to manually set the sub timings at the settings at the speed your PC boots at, then HCI test for stability overnight.









Edit: I dunno if it matters but I'm a 5930k and you're a 5820k but it's memory bandwidth so I don't think it really does matter much.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> You lost me. Do you mean for _not_ setting a high refresh interval? Otherwise I don't understand what the refresh interval does that you mentioned earlier as it doesn't do what you'd think.


You're confused, two different things. Refresh internal is tREFI. Although this setting is also best left at the default value, the offset of setting a much higher value at faster frequencies is not worth it as the performance gain is minimal, and in tow you increase the chances of memory corruption as the time between refreshes is longer. It's something that has been covered a few times, as increasing the period between refreshes will make AIDA cache and memory benchmark look a tad more impressive for screenshot flexin'.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> You lost me. Do you mean for _not_ setting a high refresh interval? Otherwise I don't understand what the refresh interval does that you mentioned earlier as it doesn't do what you'd think.
> 
> 
> 
> You're confused, two different things. Refresh internal is tREFI. Although this setting is also best left at the default value, the offset of setting a much higher value at faster frequencies is not worth it as the performance gain is minimal, and in tow you increase the chances of memory corruption, as the time between refreshes is longer. It's something that has been covered a few times, as increasing the period between refreshes will make AIDA cache and memory benchmark look a tad more impressive for screenshot flexin'.
Click to expand...

Why would setting a refresh interval higher make bandwidth increase, though. That sounds counter-intuitive to me.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Why would setting a refresh interval higher make bandwidth increase, though. That sounds counter-intuitive to me.


Because during cell refresh the memory becomes inactive, increasing the interval allows more data to be driven before the next


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> What I did was put RAM on XMP all my sub timings at Auto except 15-15-15-33 1T, set RAM to 2000MHZ in BIOS on 125 strap, reboot, saw the Auto XMP sub timings which will be lower on XMP when using a low RAM speed, manually set the timings as they appeared in Auto, maxed out DRAM Refresh Interval at 32767, it's as high as it goes. Set DRAM REF Cycle Time to 278, Four ACT Win Time (tFAW) to 20 (4X Read To Pre Time), Read To PRE time (tRTP) to 5. Then reboot into BIOS and reset to 3000MHZ. You may have to use a bit higher DRAM REF Cycle Time then 278 and lower DRAM Refresh Interval then 32767 to get stable at 3200MHZ.
> 
> If you're using the 100 Strap try it with 2133 RAM speed. if you PC won't boot after doing that, try one RAM speed higher in BIOS and same thing. You want to manually set the sub timings at the settings at the speed your PC boots at, then HCI test for stability overnight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I dunno if it matters but I'm a 5930k and you're a 5820k but it's memory bandwidth so I don't think it really does matter much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Thanks! I'll check this out when my TZ set comes in. I figured as much for the CPUs, but I'm wondering about the MB making a diff ...


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Why would setting a refresh interval higher make bandwidth increase, though. That sounds counter-intuitive to me.


The charge stored in a DRAM cell drains away over time. Therefore, the charge level within a cell must be maintained by refreshing the memory periodically. During the process of a refresh, the memory is not available for a read or write until the refresh is completed. By increasing tREFI, the time in which all banks must be refreshed is larger, which allows more read/write transactions to take place, hence the higher bandwidth. Of course, increasing this value too far can result in the stored charge falling below VREF. If that happens, a logic 1, becomes a 0, which is corrupt data.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> The charge stored in a DRAM cell drains away over time. Therefore, the charge level within a cell must be maintained by refreshing the memory periodically. During the process of a refresh, the memory is not available for a read or write until the refresh is completed. By increasing tREFI, the time in which all banks must be refreshed is larger, which allows more read/write transactions to take place, hence the higher bandwidth. Of course, increasing this value too far can result in the stored charge falling below VREF. If that happens, a logic 1, becomes a 0, which is corrupt data.


Thanks for the excellent insight, Raja. I believe I'll leave the refresh time alone and not tempt fate


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> The charge stored in a DRAM cell drains away over time. Therefore, the charge level within a cell must be maintained by refreshing the memory periodically. During the process of a refresh, the memory is not available for a read or write until the refresh is completed. By increasing tREFI, the time in which all banks must be refreshed is larger, which allows more read/write transactions to take place, hence the higher bandwidth. Of course, increasing this value too far can result in the stored charge falling below VREF. If that happens, a logic 1, becomes a 0, which is corrupt data.












What do you think of using a ram disk as a way to check if increasing tREFI is over the top? I've been running 22066 which is lees than double the Auto value (~ 12000). Ram disk has been okay for a couple of days (the extent of need that I had at the time). Still, no really clear way to test this?


----------



## Jpmboy

JPMboy -- [email protected]/3.7 -- GSkill 8x8 3200c14 kit @ 3400C14-14.14-32-*2T*







1h GSAT


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> JPMboy -- [email protected]/3.7 -- GSkill 8x8 3200c14 kit @ 3400C14-14.14-32-*2T*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1h GSAT
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


You do mean 6950X


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You're confused, two different things. Refresh internal is tREFI. Although this setting is also best left at the default value, the offset of setting a much higher value at faster frequencies is not worth it as the performance gain is minimal, and in tow you increase the chances of memory corruption as the time between refreshes is longer. It's something that has been covered a few times, as increasing the period between refreshes will make AIDA cache and memory benchmark look a tad more impressive for screenshot flexin'.


Been gaming a few days with zero crashes with tREFI maxed out but if I have any issues I'll definitely set it to default.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> You do mean 6950X


wut.. you don't know about that processor? It's the 6950X with a weak IMC.


----------



## Micko

After 5 years, my 2500k died so I got myself a new Z170 build.

Took me couple of days to test the overclock and it seems that 4.6 GHz @ 1.31v is a good compromise temperature wise for the time being.

What struck me is that I really had to get out of my way to make the ram work at its default settings (Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 2x8 GB). With XMP profile selected, pc would not boot no matter what i set the DRAM / VCCIO / System agent voltages to. So I had to manually set the frequency to 3000 MHz, VCCIO and SA to 1.25 v each and DRAM voltage to 1.36v and timings to 15/17/39 (XMP profile timings). Everything seems to be stable so far.

My question is: how much DRAM voltage _should_ be safe for 24/7 ? I wanted to try and get at least 3200 MHz out of my sticks but i can't get system to post when i select 3200 even with 1.37v.

Thanks.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Micko*
> 
> After 5 years, my 2500k died so I got myself a new Z170 build.
> 
> Took me couple of days to test the overclock and it seems that 4.6 GHz @ 1.31v is a good compromise temperature wise for the time being.
> 
> What struck me is that I really had to get out of my way to make the ram work at its default settings (Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 2x8 GB). With XMP profile selected, pc would not boot no matter what i set the DRAM / VCCIO / System agent voltages to. So I had to manually set the frequency to 3000 MHz, VCCIO and SA to 1.25 v each and DRAM voltage to 1.36v and timings to 15/17/39 (XMP profile timings). Everything seems to be stable so far.
> 
> My question is: how much DRAM voltage _should_ be safe for 24/7 ? I wanted to try and get at least 3200 MHz out of my sticks but i can't get system to post when i select 3200 even with 1.37v.
> 
> Thanks.


1.4-1.45V DDR4 - 100% confidence. if your product use life is 5 years or more... stay under 1.4V and yo7u should be fine.


----------



## cekim

cekim--6950x @4.4/3.7---R5E---GSkill--8x16(128G)--3000Mhz-C14-14-14-34-2T----1.35v---SA Auto---Stressapptest----1 Hour


FWIW, BIOS said SA=1.2v when on auto. I've run stable for shorter runs at Auto - 0.06 , but a full hour SAT appears to require something between those two.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> wut.. you don't know about that processor? It's the 6950X with a weak IMC.


Try it on the Edition 10. Better for BW-E.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Try it on the Edition 10. Better for BW-E.


yeah - I was hoping to wait for the case labs Mercury s8 to arrive... 6 weeks? I can part out, fit, assemble and have a 124 cubic inch chopper ready to ride in less time. Better be one amazing PC case.









lol Parade duty this weekend...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - I was hoping to wait for the case labs Mercury s8 to arrive... 6 weeks? I can part out, fit, assemble and have a 124 cubic inch chopper ready to ride in less time. Better be one amazing PC case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol Parade duty this weekend...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice ride









Performance-PCs has them in stock - it's where I got my Magnum M8A:

Mercury S8

Oops! Out of stock


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Try it on the Edition 10. Better for BW-E.


Reasonably certain he was being sarcastic, the BW-E IMC is better than the HW-E. Does R10 do anything for the 3.8GHz uncore wall? Or are we stuck there?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Reasonably certain he was being sarcastic, the BW-E IMC is better than the HW-E. Does R10 do anything for the 3.8GHz uncore wall? Or are we stuck there?


I keep hearing that.. notwithstanding running 3400 on bwe, the imc on my 5960x easily runs this same kit at 1T - my 6950x on the same R5E both seem to be a good samples, pukes with 1T above 2666. Moving it to the 10 on this bench will take a couple of days
no I don't think it's sarcasm...the memory layer build is likely different on the 10. I have a 10 waiting to be abused.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Nice ride
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Performance-PCs has them in stock - it's where I got my Magnum M8A:
> Mercury S8
> Oops! Out of stock


thanks - that was a very fun build. (so was the 72 sportster resto-rod in the background)

I ordered directly from caselabs rather than parting it out piecemeal - 6 week mistake!!


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I keep hearing that.. notwithstanding running 3400 on bwe, the imc on my 5960x easily runs this same kit at 1T - my 6950x on the same R5E both seem to be a good samples, pukes with 1T above 2666. Moving it to the 10 on this bench will take a couple of days
> no I don't think it's sarcasm...the memory layer build is likely different on the 10. I have a 10 waiting to be abused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks - that was a very fun build. (so was the 72 sportster resto-rod in the background)
> 
> I ordered directly from caselabs rather than parting it out piecemeal - 6 week mistake!!


Oh, my mistake, I thought you mentioned good experiences with the BW-E IMC previously. Though I could do 1T on on this kit with the 5960x until the 3xxx bios (no longer, 2T only), I could never get this or any other kit to run sticker timings above 2800 with HW-E without a lot of work (if it did it all).true of all my HW-E chips.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Oh, my mistake, I thought you mentionefd good experiences with the BW-E IMC previously. Though I could do 1T on on this kit with the 5960x until the 3xxx bios (no longer, 2T only), I could never get this or any other kit to run sticker timings above 2800 with HW-E without a lot of work (if it did it all).true of all my HW-E chips.


I'm not sure we are stuck at cache 3.8.. just that the required voltage may be a bit high for my liking for Vcache. 3.8 needs 1.335V on my sample. I suspect 3.9 is ~ 1.4V.








You are right - bios 3xxx on the R5E did affect memory OC with my 5960X too. Bios 1701 is my best for HWE on this MB, and I tried every release.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I'm not sure we are stuck at cache 3.8.. just that the required voltage may be a bit high for my liking for Vcache. 3.8 needs 1.335V on my sample. I suspect 3.9 is ~ 1.4V.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right - bios 3xxx on the R5E did affect memory OC with my 5960X too. Bios 1701 is my best for HWE on this MB, and I tried every release.


59xx can often do 4.0 cache with ~1.1v for comparison... many go up to 4.2 or 4.3 ~1.3v or better. The 6950x behave very similarly to a 5960x in a MB without the OC socket. You can have 3.8, 3.8 or 3.8 - any OC as long as it not higher than 3.8. ;-)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> 59xx can often do 4.0 cache with ~1.1v for comparison... many go up to 4.2 or 4.3 ~1.3v or better. The 6950x behave very similarly to a 5960x in a MB without the OC socket. You can have 3.8, 3.8 or 3.8 - any OC as long as it not higher than 3.8. ;-)


yeah - I run cache at 4.2-4.5 on this 5960X... we knew that BWE cache was not gonna benefit from the OC socket. It has the pin contacts, but the talk on the street (hwbot street anyway) was that the ES sample's cache was not very impressive.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> 59xx can often do 4.0 cache with ~1.1v for comparison... many go up to 4.2 or 4.3 ~1.3v or better. The 6950x behave very similarly to a 5960x in a MB without the OC socket. You can have 3.8, 3.8 or 3.8 - any OC as long as it not higher than 3.8. ;-)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - I run cache at 4.2-4.5 on this 5960X... we knew that BWE cache was not gonna benefit from the OC socket. It has the pin contacts, but the talk on the street (hwbot street anyway) was that the ES sample's cache was not very impressive.


I guess I can consider myself a bit lucky - I can do 3794 @ 1.25v stable on my 6900K. I wonder how my incoming DDR4-3733 16GB is going to do, though apparently the 32GB sets have better OC'ing? FedEx says not until Friday ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I guess I can consider myself a bit lucky - I can do 3794 @ 1.25v stable on my 6900K. I wonder how my incoming DDR4-3733 16GB is going to do, though apparently the 32GB sets have better OC'ing? FedEx says not until Friday ...


Let us know how the 3733 kit does! Is that a C16 or c17 kit? Yeah - 3700 is 1.28 (thoroughly tested), 3800 passes tests at 1.32V, I run the +15mV for "confidence".


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Let us know how the 3733 kit does! Is that a C16 or c17 kit? Yeah - 3700 is 1.28 (thoroughly tested), 3800 passes tests at 1.32V, I run the +15mV for "confidence".


It's 17 - I didn't see any 16s in the Egg ...

F4-3733C17Q-16GTZ


----------



## Micko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 1.4-1.45V DDR4 - 100% confidence. if your product use life is 5 years or more... stay under 1.4V and yo7u should be fine.


Thank you. I have tried to increase the voltage up to 1.4v, but modules won't post when anything >3000 MHz is chosen, not even 3100 MHz. What I did was I left the memory at 3000 MHz, slightly increased the voltage to 1.37v and tightened the timings to 14/15/36/1T from 15/17/39/2T.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - I was hoping to wait for the case labs Mercury s8 to arrive... 6 weeks? I can part out, fit, assemble and have a 124 cubic inch chopper ready to ride in less time. Better be one amazing PC case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol Parade duty this weekend...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Very cool! Hope you enjoy the parade.

I just ordered a Vector desk: http://s201.photobucket.com/user/vahn87/media/Desk%20V2%20no%20watermark/_MG_8967.jpg.html


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Reasonably certain he was being sarcastic, the BW-E IMC is better than the HW-E. Does R10 do anything for the 3.8GHz uncore wall? Or are we stuck there?


JPM has mentioned a few times he feels the IMC is the limiting factor of his memory clocks. I was referencing his wall for memory frequency, not the IMC. Remember the IMC is also responsible for memory frequency... The Edition 10 has a layout optimized for BW-E, so should help him on the memory side in comparison to the R5E.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Very cool! Hope you enjoy the parade.
> 
> I just ordered a Vector desk: http://s201.photobucket.com/user/vahn87/media/Desk%20V2%20no%20watermark/_MG_8967.jpg.html


daaum - that's very sharp... all it needs is a thin film OLED screen in the top glass or heads-up like display. very cool!


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> JPM has mentioned a few times he feels the IMC is the limiting factor of his memory clocks. I was referencing his wall for memory frequency, not the IMC. Remember the IMC is also responsible for memory frequency... The Edition 10 has a layout optimized for BW-E, so should help him on the memory side in comparison to the R5E.


So far with each of my kits the R5E is behaving better with the BW-E than HW-E. I had 3 HW-E chips in this MB at various times, all behaved similarly which is to say they could run at 2800, 2800 or 2800... I did eventually get 3200 with 1/2 my 128G kit in a benching setup with HW-E, but not something that would pass an hour of stressapp.

So, it appears the OC socket is dead for BW-E as it relates to unicore frequencies owing to BW-E cache architecture.

Pretty fascinating/sad that we are getting to quad-pumped 12GHz effective DDR technology-wise (GDDR5x) Where intel is running a 2.8GHz on-chip cache... and yes I know latency, burst, access vs cache-line on-chip and DDR vs GDDR is a different beast, but still 11-12 vs 2.8-3.7 is a BIG difference.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Very cool! Hope you enjoy the parade.
> 
> I just ordered a Vector desk: http://s201.photobucket.com/user/vahn87/media/Desk%20V2%20no%20watermark/_MG_8967.jpg.html


Cool! Didn't know these existed. Might have to check this out as I use my case kind of like a desk (Ikea tabletop and two monitors on top) ...


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Cool! Didn't know these existed. Might have to check this out as I use my case kind of like a desk (Ikea tabletop and two monitors on top) ...


Not as big as a Cross Desk, but big enough and almost half the price here in the UK. Lots of room inside, as well.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> So far with each of my kits the R5E is behaving better with the BW-E than HW-E. I had 3 HW-E chips in this MB at various times, all behaved similarly which is to say they could run at 2800, 2800 or 2800... I did eventually get 3200 with 1/2 my 128G kit in a benching setup with HW-E, but not something that would pass an hour of stressapp.
> 
> So, it appears the OC socket is dead for BW-E as it relates to unicore frequencies owing to BW-E cache architecture.
> 
> Pretty fascinating/sad that we are getting to quad-pumped 12GHz effective DDR technology-wise (GDDR5x) Where intel is running a 2.8GHz on-chip cache... and yes I know latency, burst, access vs cache-line on-chip and DDR vs GDDR is a different beast, but still 11-12 vs 2.8-3.7 is a BIG difference.


That might well be the case, but the Edition 10 is better than the R5E for clocking memory.

I'm not hung up on cache frequency. The power trade-offs were always unbalanced for my liking.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Not as big as a Cross Desk, but big enough and almost half the price here in the UK. Lots of room inside, as well.


Hmmm - just checked it out - do you have to be on Facebook to order? Too big for my use unfortunately.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> That might well be the case, but the Edition 10 is better than the R5E for clocking memory.
> 
> I'm not hung up on cache frequency. The power trade-offs were always unbalanced for my liking.


For my daily driver use cases it provides a linear speed up 10% more cache speed provides 10% more application performance but I admit it's not the usual. I've already got custom loops so provided it is stable and not chip roasting voltage, I'm more than happy to move the heat away for that.

Interesting on 10 as I can say the same for DDR speed of course lower CAS is just as important, I definitely see the bump there. [email protected] beats [email protected] but of course that equation changes with 3200 or 3400 provided the CAS stays low.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Interesting on 10 as I can say the same for DDR speed of course lower CAS is just as important, I definitely see the bump there. [email protected] beats [email protected] but of course that equation changes with 3200 or 3400 provided the CAS stays low.


Anyone that understands memory should never talk about timings as if they are a separate entity to frequency.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Hmmm - just checked it out - do you have to be on Facebook to order? Too big for my use unfortunately.


Being UK based, I ordered mine from OCUK.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Hmmm - just checked it out - do you have to be on Facebook to order? Too big for my use unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> Being UK based, I ordered mine from OCUK.
Click to expand...

Curious, ASUS' North America Hardware rep is based in the UK. Would that explain why you ignored all the PMs and posts I directed to you earlier this year?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> daaum - that's very sharp... all it needs is a thin film OLED screen in the top glass or heads-up like display. very cool!


Might look into a panel mount for monitoring purposes. Monitor is a curved 34"... trying to resist buying two more..


----------



## Silent Scone

Heh, the more you ignore them, the more they want you


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Don't you have a dropped channel there, because the bandwidth is wrong in GSAT as well.


Hello

The reported copy bandwidth by GSAT is not a meaningful number unless power spiking is turned off.


----------



## GRABibus

GRABibus--i75930K @4.6/4.5---3200Mhz-C15-16-16-36-1T----1.35v---SA 1.05v---HCI 12 hours

Motherboard : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin = 1.8V

http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=16070410002617369814355078.png


----------



## skmanu

Got 4x4 GSkill TridentZ 3600/Cl17 [email protected]/14-16-16-35/1.45v. VCCSA+0.450mV. Core 4.8GHz/1.293v. Uncore 4.3GHz/1.275v. P95 6hrs+ stable. Not a single crash in 2 months (gaming, Photoshop, After Effect...).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skmanu*
> 
> Got 4x4 GSkill TridentZ 3600/Cl17 [email protected]/14-16-16-35/1.45v. VCCSA+0.450mV. Core 4.8GHz/1.293v. Uncore 4.3GHz/1.275v. P95 6hrs+ stable. Not a single crash in 2 months (gaming, Photoshop, After Effect...).


I got a great shredder last month, not let me down once.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> GRABibus--i75930K @4.6/4.5---3200Mhz-C15-16-16-36-1T----1.35v---SA 1.05v---HCI 12 hours
> 
> Motherboard : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
> Vccin = 1.8V
> 
> http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=16070410002617369814355078.png


Thanks again GRABibus







. You're scrutinous with your coverage


----------



## skmanu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I got a great shredder last month, not let me down once.


Lol!


Or maybe, to play it safe, stay below 1.3v, should be enough for 4.8GHz...


----------



## skmanu

Would you be kind enough to lend me your shredder?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skmanu*
> 
> Would you be kind enough to lend me your shredder?


Nice chip! No but I can lend you a DVD to install Linux distro


----------



## skmanu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice chip! No but I can lend you a DVD to install Linux distro


Lol! Might try one of these days.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skmanu*
> 
> Would you be kind enough to lend me your shredder?


I have a very nice Aurora shredder. E-mail me anything you want shredded and I'll be happy to take care of it for you









Nice chip BTW


----------



## skmanu

Thanks!


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks again GRABibus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You're scrutinous with your coverage


Yep, 12 hours OCCT and 12 hours HCI Memtest are my validation overclock rules


----------



## Silent Scone

Honestly 1 to 2 hours of GSAT is sufficient!


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Anyone that understands memory should never talk about timings as if they are a separate entity to frequency.


I think you are misinterpreting my statement and I was admittedly vague...

We have to consider frequency, cycle counts and voltage not independently or even linearly related but as a matrix solution to the problem.

Using the absolute time of ((1/freq) * #cycles) as a "guideline" for what the DIMM/Kit can do, but not an absolute. The lousy cooling DIMMs get alone adds another huge fudge factor as you push the envelope here. The manufacturer bins according to meeting some threshold they believe they can price at any given time relative to overall order book needs. They only care that it can do what they say it can do. If it could do more or more with slightly more than 1.35v, then you _might_ get that for free or you might get nothing more than promised.

I was speaking both about my current kit(s) and their scaling as well as future kits that might provide improved ratio of clock:CAS. There are now 3200CAS14 kits where 3000CAS14 was as good as I could do when I bought my 128G kit. Even worse is the 2800CAS15 32G kit I have in another machine or a 3000/15 kit in still another. Bigger kits empirically and logically put more strain on the IMC and thus a given kit might have better characteristics as individual or fewer than included dimms than they do as a kit (I've seen this repeatedly).

Then there is the matter that the CPU/IMC were designed with various assumptions and sweet-spots of frequency of each component (CPU, Cache, DDR) which affect their fifo depths, settings and pipe-line depth assumptions. These are ratios to which we have little to no information other than empirical. BIOS writers have some and Intel even more about this, but to us lowly users its a black box.

Of course they are not independent. When I raise frequency, I should expect any given timing to be more at risk of violating my sample's requirements than they would at a lower frequency because I am asking the DRAM's internal components to do the work of address, refresh, charge, discharge, etc... in less absolute time ((1/freq) * #cycles)).

For those playing the home game:
14cycles @ 3000 (1500) => 0.00000000933338 or 9.33nS
12cycles @ 2800 (1400) => 0.00000000857148 or 8.57nS

So, I sped up memory frequency by ~7%, but now the Column Address Strobe sequence takes ~8% LONGER in absolute time.

Let's go even more ridiculous and look at a 4266/19 kit on the `egg:
19cycles @ 4266MHz (2133) => 0.00000000890758 or 8.91nS

Which one will produce the best overall system performance? Dr WaitState decides... ;-) (well he and the IMC's ability to gang together page reads and writes and some large number of other factors that are chip architecture, OS architecture and even application dependent).

So, put all that together and the "best" performance of your system that is possible may very well not be the highest clock rate your IMC/DIMM will tolerate, so I will reserve my hunger for 4GHz memory until or unless I see that they can actually improve my system performance or prices make it a moot point.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skmanu*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


That's the one - works like magic!


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Honestly 1 to 2 hours of GSAT is sufficient!


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> So, put all that together and the "best" performance of your system that is possible may very well not be the highest clock rate your IMC/DIMM will tolerate


Hello

This has always been the case so nothing new here.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> This has always been the case so nothing new here.


Which is why I didn't bother elaborating in the first place...


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I think you are misinterpreting my statement and I was admittedly vague...
> 
> We have to consider frequency, cycle counts and voltage not independently or even linearly related but as a matrix solution to the problem.
> 
> Using the absolute time of ((1/freq) * #cycles) as a "guideline" for what the DIMM/Kit can do, but not an absolute. The lousy cooling DIMMs get alone adds another huge fudge factor as you push the envelope here. The manufacturer bins according to meeting some threshold they believe they can price at any given time relative to overall order book needs. They only care that it can do what they say it can do. If it could do more or more with slightly more than 1.35v, then you _might_ get that for free or you might get nothing more than promised.
> 
> I was speaking both about my current kit(s) and their scaling as well future kits that might provide improved ratio of clock:CAS. There are now 3200CAS14 kits where 3000CAS14 was as good as I could do when I bought my 128G kit. Even worse is the 2800CAS15 32G kit I have in another machine or a 3000/15 kit in still another. Bigger kits empirically and logically put more strain on the IMC and thus a given kit might have better characteristics as individual or fewer than included dimms than they do as a kit (I've seen this repeatedly).
> 
> Then there is the matter that the CPU/IMC were designed with various assumptions and sweet-spots of frequency of each component (CPU, Cache, DDR) which affect their fifo depths, settings and pipe-line depth assumptions. These are ratios to which we have little to no information other than empirical. BIOS writers have some and Intel even more about this, but to us lowly users its a black box.
> 
> Of course they are not independent. When I raise frequency, I should expect any given timing to be more at risk of violating my sample's requirements than they would at a lower frequency because I am asking the DRAM's internal components to do the work of address, refresh, charge, discharge, etc... in less absolute time ((1/freq) * #cycles)).
> 
> For those playing the home game:
> 14cycles @ 3000MHz = 0.00000000466662 or 4.67nS
> 12cycles @ 2800MHz = 0.00000000428568 or 4.29nS
> 
> So, I sped up memory frequency by 7%, but now the Column Address Strobe sequence takes 8% LONGER in absolute time.
> 
> Let's go even more ridiculous and look at a 4266/19 kit on the `egg:
> 19cycles @ 4266MHz = 0.00000000445379 or 4.45nS
> 
> Which one will produce the best overall system performance? Dr WaitState decides... ;-) (well he and the IMC's ability to gang together page reads and writes and some large number of other factors that are chip architecture, OS architecture and even application dependent).
> 
> So, put all that together and the "best" performance of your system that is possible may very well not be the highest clock rate your IMC/DIMM will tolerate, so I will reserve my hunger for 4GHz memory until or unless I see that they can actually improve my system performance or prices make it a moot point.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Let's go even more ridiculous and look at a 4266/19 kit on the `egg:
> 19cycles @ 4266MHz = 0.00000000445379 or 4.45nS


The actual latency is 2x your figures.prolly a good idea to point that out instead of leading people down a wishy washy path.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I got a great shredder last month, not let me down once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again GRABibus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You're scrutinous with your coverage


Scone, did you see my 8x4GB G.Skill DDR4 3000, Asus X99-A II HCI 400% run? A few days back I posted it.









Edit: http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/1740#post_25309657


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> The actual latency is 2x your figures.prolly a good idea to point that out instead of leading people down a wishy washy path.


Hello

Good catch. I skipped over most of that as it was starting to read as more of a recital than one's actual findings.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Good catch. I skipped over most of that as it was starting to read as more of a recital than one's actual findings.


I wasn't trying to measure or predict latency, just showing an explanation of why my specific observation is backed up by the relative behavior of two different configurations and further extends to other possible configurations.

You guys sure are grumpy today.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I wasn't trying to measure or predict latency, just showing an explanation of why my specific observation is backed up by the relative behavior of two different configurations and further extends to other possible configurations.
> 
> You guys sure are grumpy today.


Hello

Seriously? When you are attempting to show the latency difference between modules why would you use a known faulty formula. It would probably be best to correct the formula in your post and the resultant values and just move on from here.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Seriously? When you are attempting to show the latency difference between modules why would you use a known faulty formula. It would probably be best to correct the formula in your post and the resultant values and just move on from here.


Oh, now I see why you guys got your undergarments creased. I screwed up my math. My apologies. The hazards of typing on vacation.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Oh, now I see why you guys got your undergarments creased. I screwed up my math. My apologies. The hazards of typing on vacation.


Well you are trying to teach people that already know this stuff. Not sure what the point is. Recall you jumped into a comment between JPM and myself, without knowing the full details.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Scone, did you see my 8x4GB G.Skill DDR4 3000, Asus X99-A II HCI 400% run? A few days back I posted it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/1740#post_25309657


Yep, will add recent results shortly.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yep, will add recent results shortly.


Thank you.


----------



## djgar

Hey! Scone!!! I just realized you never added my 5820K nor 6900K results! I'm crushed ...












...

OK, I realize I never posted the 6900K here, and the 5820K posting was not a request to register ... ahh, to be young again


----------



## Silent Scone

I've not added a few yet, i will get around to it tonight. Nobody gets left out


----------



## Kimir

Well, both of his screen does not show either HCI or GSAT stability, so there is that.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Well, both of his screen does not show either HCI or GSAT stability, so there is that.


The reason I don't show my GSAT screen is because they all look the same - nothing identifies it with the detup being tested. I always do 1 hour GSAT. So here are two, one for 5820K and one the 6900K









5820K:


6900K:


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah, I've been meaning to update the posting method to help that. However, at the end of the day there is no reason for anyone to consider posting forged results. The idea is that it shows what configurations are possible at what densities, speed and timings (primary at least) at an operational level. If looking for attention, there are benchmarks for that


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yeah, I've been meaning to update the posting method to help that. However, at the end of the day there is no reason for anyone to consider posting forged results. The idea is that it shows what configurations are possible at what densities, speed and timings (primary at least) at an operational level. If looking for attention, there are benchmarks for that


Hopefully you regard me as the former ...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Hopefully you regard me as the former ...


lol yes! That wasn't a dig at you (or anyone), besides which you didn't post them in the first place so wouldn't have suspected


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol yes! That wasn't a dig at you (or anyone), besides which you didn't post them in the first place so wouldn't have suspected


Life is good! Now waiting for my 3733 / 17-19-19-39 16GB kit and see how that behaves, due Friday


----------



## Silent Scone

Cool, let us know


----------



## GunnzAkimbo

Need fast as **** 32GB memory kit for 5960X

What to get? 1 problem is availability in this forgotten country (when it comes to tech).


----------



## Kimir

G.Skill TridentZ or Ripjaws V 3200C14 or the new 3200C13 if you can find them.


----------



## GunnzAkimbo

I seen the Trident Z set in Aus, is it this set?

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/35940/g-skill-trident-z-f4-3200c16q-32gtz-32gb-4x8gb-ddr4

and,

Are these any good or marketing garbage?

https://www.ple.com.au/Products/624450/Corsair-32GB-Kit-4x8GB-DDR4-Vengeance-C16-Red-LED-135V-3466MHz


----------



## Silent Scone

Probably not garbage, but you want to get the G.SKILL if you can.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Might look into a panel mount for monitoring purposes. Monitor is a curved 34"... trying to resist buying two more..


oh.. you gotta post a pick of the curved 34 on that new desk-case.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> G.Skill TridentZ or Ripjaws V 3200C14 or the new 3200C13 if you can find them.


3200c13? where did you see these.


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GunnzAkimbo*
> 
> Need fast as **** 32GB memory kit for 5960X
> 
> What to get? 1 problem is availability in this forgotten country (when it comes to tech).


Well you're always free to purchase through another person that you trust. They buy the item from a palce where it's available, then they ship it over to you. A ram kit isn't terrible heavy so the international shipping overhead shouldn't be too much.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 3200c13? where did you see these.


They have been announced a while back, but are yet to be seen.
http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-trident-z-ddr4-4266mhz-16gb--8gbx2--1-35v-extreme-speed-memory-kit


----------



## Silent Scone

Like most kits out of G.SKILL at the moment, vapor RAM lol. I'm sure they'll start appearing soon.


----------



## Mr-Dark

Hello

I'm working on the GSAT now.. but in OP link.. there is 2 edition for Linux which one ?



64Bit right ? also is there any Guide for how to use that from USB memory ?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr-Dark*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I'm working on the GSAT now.. but in OP link.. there is 2 edition for Linux which one ?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 64Bit right ? also is there any Guide for how to use that from USB memory ?


Ooooh! New Mint version! I'm running the 64-bit. Hmmm, code name Sarah - wonder if it came from EUReKA?


----------



## Silent Scone

Silent Scone--6900K @4.3/3.6---3400Mhz-C14-15-15-34-1T---1.42v---SA 1.08v---IO 1.08v---VCCIN 1.92v---GSAT 1 Hour


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> *Place holder
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Just loaded and checked Mint 18.0 ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Silent Scone--6900K @4.3/3.6---3400Mhz-C14-15-15-34-1T---1.42v---SA 1.08v---IO 1.08v---VCCIN 1.92v---GSAT 1 Hour


that's very nice!








Here's what I'm talking about with 8 sticks vs 4 sticks. left is 4x8GB, right is 8x8GB, exact same timings and settings with one exception... 4x8GB at 1T and 8x8GB at 2T ! 2T is still "better"?


that's the second example with very different kits on two T-top motherboards:
Earlier:
8x4GB on the R5E vs 4x8GB (or 4x4GB). 8 sticks where faster than either 4 stick config, even with the 4 stick configs at higher freq or tighter timings (all hci memtest stable)


----------



## djgar

And supposedly 4 performed better than 8 sticks. Maybe a BE perk?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> And supposedly 4 performed better than 8 sticks. Maybe a BE perk?


erm, same result with the 5960x (the first example 8x4GB vs...) It's a T-topology thing? Not CPU or board related (same thing occurs on my z170 Max8 extreme).


----------



## Synik

I was able to get one hour stable on gsat at 13-15-13-28 t1 3200 mhz. weird that the tRCD cant seem to go below 15 on any ram I throw in. Seems like some motherboard or cpu limit. Tried sa voltages +.1,.15,.18,.2,.25,.3 none of them helped me lower tRCD


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> I was able to get one hour stable on gsat at 13-15-13-28 t1 3200 mhz. weird that the tRCD cant seem to go below 15 on any ram I throw in. Seems like some motherboard or cpu limit. Tried sa voltages +.1,.15,.18,.2,.25,.3 none of them helped me lower tRCD


15 shouldn't be the board or CPU, I've run 14-14-14 timings @3200, however, CL + RCD might be the real limit you are seeing.


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> 15 shouldn't be the board or CPU, I've run 14-14-14 timings @3200, however, CL + RCD might be the real limit you are seeing.


I wonder if it is any better than 14-14-14. I must have terrible luck with ram then. I had three kits and none can do their rated xmp speed without errors on gsat


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> I wonder if it is any better than 14-14-14. I must have terrible luck with ram then. I had three kits and none can do their rated xmp speed without errors on gsat


Over more than a couple X99 boards (4 X99Pro, 1 RVE, 1 MSI E4), CPUs (2x5930k,2x5960x) and ram kits (5 total I think), with HWE, I saw exactly the same. The best I saw was a 125BCLK XMP setup that hit sticker values out of the box but longer SAT runs produced errors.

In most cases, I was eventually able to tweak it, but all required work just to reach the rated timings/clock.


----------



## Jpmboy

it can be the CPU... I have a 4x8GB G Skill kit that refuses to run 1T on x99 with my 6950x. Does 3200 c13-13-13-28-1T with very tight secondaries with my 5960X (on the same R5E, or on a R5E-10)... put them on a z170 Max 8 Extreme/6700K @ 4.8 and they are running at 3467 c14-15-15-1T with only 1.425V VDimm. Conclucion: the IMC on my 6950X is weak.


----------



## CL3P20

RTL has huge imact on stabilty of IMC/RAM.. moving from 2T to 1T you tighten RTL significantly.

*keep an eye on RTL as you tune. You can use a few timings like CL and tWCL to affect RTL training too.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> RTL has huge imact on stabilty of IMC/RAM.. moving from 2T to 1T you tighten RTL significantly.
> 
> *keep an eye on RTL as you tune. You can use a few timings like CL and tWCL to affect RTL training too.


I bet it does. Any suggestions on getting 64GB to run 1T on this 6950X?


----------



## djgar

Well, the 3733/17 TZs were a bust. I couldn't get them to run as fast as my 3200/14 GVRs no matter the mode / strap.

So, back to the GVRs ... and a new set of paper weights


----------



## Kimir

You can't send them back?
That's what I did, multiple times, when binned my TZ.


----------



## Synik

well I hit 1400 on cinebench with my 6800k and ddr4. Happy where it is now. Might try to tighten timings more but I am satisfied I hit my goal


----------



## Arulan

First time using a Asus MB (x99 Deluxe II) with POST LEDs (CPU_LED, DRAM_LED, VGA_LED, BOOT_LED), and I can't seem to find any documentation on interpreting it. My PC posts fine, and those LEDs are no longer active once booted, but on startup they turn on momentarily (Red, Yellow(?), Orange, and White). What does this mean? Is it just going through each one and _passing_?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You can't send them back?
> That's what I did, multiple times, when binned my TZ.


What excuse did you give?


----------



## GunnzAkimbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> well I hit 1400 on cinebench with my 6800k and ddr4. Happy where it is now. Might try to tighten timings more but I am satisfied I hit my goal


That is a 5960X default with 2666MHz C14 score.


----------



## sdrawkcab

If I purchase a 3200/3400 mhz memory kit I will still be limited by the CPU correct? I picked up a new 5960x that is overclocking very well, I currently can run 3000mhz ram with a -.020 offset on system agent and wondering if will be worth trying my luck with some of the faster ram kits on a rampage 5 extreme.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arulan*
> 
> First time using a Asus MB (x99 Deluxe II) with POST LEDs (CPU_LED, DRAM_LED, VGA_LED, BOOT_LED), and I can't seem to find any documentation on interpreting it. My PC posts fine, and those LEDs are no longer active once booted, but on startup they turn on momentarily (Red, Yellow(?), Orange, and White). What does this mean? Is it just going through each one and _passing_?


This is normal during POST checks, the lights will simply go out once it is complete.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> If I purchase a 3200/3400 mhz memory kit I will still be limited by the CPU correct? I picked up a new 5960x that is overclocking very well, I currently can run 3000mhz ram with a -.020 offset on system agent and wondering if will be worth trying my luck with some of the faster ram kits on a rampage 5 extreme.


Need more info, what memory kit?


----------



## sdrawkcab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is normal during POST checks, the lights will simply go out once it is complete.
> Need more info, what memory kit?


Preferably G.Skill Trident or Corsair Dominator Platinum. I'm looking at 32gb and 64gb if 16gb dimms aren't limited in overclocking compared to 8gb or even single vs double sided. Haven't read much about the 16gb dimms, though I'm not too worried because 32gb would be enough for me in production environment so I'm inclined to buy the kit which may have better results in overclocking from sampled results of different users. Just wondering the end result of the motherboard and cpu allowing the XMP speeds to run or even the possibility of pushing further.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arulan*
> 
> First time using a Asus MB (x99 Deluxe II) with POST LEDs (CPU_LED, DRAM_LED, VGA_LED, BOOT_LED), and I can't seem to find any documentation on interpreting it. My PC posts fine, and those LEDs are no longer active once booted, but on startup they turn on momentarily (Red, Yellow(?), Orange, and White). What does this mean? Is it just going through each one and _passing_?


lol - worry if the post leds stay on after OS handoff (last one is boot device "ok").
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> Preferably G.Skill Trident or Corsair Dominator Platinum. I'm looking at 32gb and 64gb if 16gb dimms aren't limited in overclocking compared to 8gb or even single vs double sided. Haven't read much about the 16gb dimms, though I'm not too worried because 32gb would be enough for me in production environment so I'm inclined to buy the kit which may have better results in overclocking from sampled results of different users. Just wondering the end result of the motherboard and cpu allowing the XMP speeds to run or even the possibility of pushing further.


why not try to oc the ram you have? what mobo?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - worry if the post leds stay on after OS handoff (last one is boot device "ok").
> why not try to oc the ram you have? what mobo?


So I RMA'ed the DDR4-3733/17 set for a refund (minus restocking naturally). Is this the kit you're running?

f4-3200c14q-32gtz

I can only find one sample in the US and for > $350 but Amazon UK will ship for $260


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> So I RMA'ed the DDR4-3733/17 set for a refund (minus restocking naturally). Is this the kit you're running?
> 
> f4-3200c14q-32gtz
> 
> I can only find one sample in the US and for > $350 but Amazon UK will ship for $260


Actually that's the one I sold a month ago... I have the following kits in hand: black RipJaws 3200C14 4x8GB, Trident Z 3200c14 8x8GB, and Trident Z 4000c19 2x4GB (for silly benching).
the RJs are on my M8E/6700K running at 3467 C15 or 3600c16. The TZ 8x8 kit is on the R5E-10 at 3400c14, the 2x4GB kit runs 3866c17, and 4000c18 with tweaking.

If you can find the G Skill 3200c14 4x8GB kit TZs or RJs... they are the same ICs, just different heat sinks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007611%2050008476%20601190328%20600083963%20600561668%20600546709


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Actually that's the one I sold a month ago... I have the following kits in hand: black RipJaws 3200C14 4x8GB, Trident Z 3200c14 8x8GB, and Trident Z 4000c19 2x4GB (for silly benching).
> the RJs are on my M8E/6700K running at 3467 C15 or 3600c16. The TZ 8x8 kit is on the R5E-10 at 3400c14, the 2x4GB kit runs 3866c17, and 4000c18 with tweaking.
> 
> If you can find the G Skill 3200c14 4x8GB kit TZs or RJs... they are the same ICs, just different heat sinks.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007611%2050008476%20601190328%20600083963%20600561668%20600546709


Hmm, no match on link. I have the 3200/14 RJ with Samsung chips ... are these the ones you're referring to?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232231


----------



## greg1184

For those with broadwell-E, what DRAM/SA/VCCIO settings are you using for 3200mhz memory? I have a set of G.skill RipjawzV 3200mhz ram and am struggling with HCI Memtest errors at 3200mhz. At 2133mhz I dont seem to get any errors.


----------



## Silent Scone

CPU dependant. Try around 1.1 to 1.15 on both rails.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Hmm, no match on link. I have the 3200/14 RJ with Samsung chips ... are these the ones you're referring to?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232231


Yes.. the black ones should be cheaper.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232219


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Yes.. the black ones should be cheaper.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232219


Thanks for the info. I currently have the red ones







. So no real difference between these and the TZs you sold?

Thanks again!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Thanks for the info. I currently have the red ones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . So no real difference between these and the TZs you sold?
> 
> Thanks again!


nah - same ICs AFAIK. 14-14-14-34 3200's are the same.


----------



## greg1184

Seems like I finally got the ram stable. Took a dram voltage of 1.45 and SA of 1.25. I'm over 300% coverage and no errors.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> Seems like I finally got the ram stable. Took a dram voltage of 1.45 and SA of 1.25. I'm over 300% coverage and no errors.


Shouldn't need 1.45V for 24/7 stability at XMP settings. Have you tried lower frequencies like 2666MHz or 3000MHz? The only way to make sure is to get another "good" kit and check with that to make sure it isn't your IMC holding you back. Raising VCCIO will definitely help if it's your IMC, alongside future BIOS updates.


----------



## greg1184

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Shouldn't need 1.45V for 24/7 stability at XMP settings. Have you tried lower frequencies like 2666MHz or 3000MHz? The only way to make sure is to get another "good" kit and check with that to make sure it isn't your IMC holding you back. Raising VCCIO will definitely help if it's your IMC, alongside future BIOS updates.


I tried 2133mhz with no errors. I tried many VCCIO/SA frequences at multiple DRAM voltages and kept getting errors on HCI memtest. At my current settings I had no errors at 500% coverage. I dont have the cash to waste on a second RAM kit. My timings are at default for the kit.


----------



## eddward

Hello,
just curios if you have any suggestions regarding my case: I passed 1000% coverage in HCI Memtest but shortly after that at 1050% got 1 error in one of the Memtest instances. So "golden standard" seems not very golden for me at least








Using Corsair DDR4 2x8GB 3200Mhz CL16 Kit manually modified to CL15-17-17-35 1T at 1.37V, VCCIO 1.10V, VCCSA 1.21V.
I assume one of these 3 voltages I need to increase a little bit. Probably start with VCCSA.

CPU is 6700K @ 4.6Ghz


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eddward*
> 
> Hello,
> just curios if you have any suggestions regarding my case: I passed 1000% coverage in HCI Memtest but shortly after that at 1050% got 1 error in one of the Memtest instances. So "golden standard" seems not very golden for me at least
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using Corsair DDR4 2x8GB 3200Mhz CL16 Kit manually modified to CL15-17-17-35 1T at 1.37V, VCCIO 1.10V, VCCSA 1.21V.
> I assume one of these 3 voltages I need to increase a little bit. Probably start with VCCSA.
> 
> CPU is 6700K @ 4.6Ghz


This can sometimes be related to cache at that level of coverage.


----------



## Mr-Dark

Can i join this now ?











Corsair Plat 32GB 2666mhz @ 2666 CL14-14-14-32 1T 1.360V

SA + 200mv offser = 1.032v

Edit : Cpu is 5820k @4.2ghz 1.12v on asus x99 deluxe ..


----------



## eddward

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This can sometimes be related to cache at that level of coverage.


Ah, thanks, cache is at stock but maybe I need a little bit more Core/Cache voltage, I'll try.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eddward*
> 
> Ah, thanks, cache is at stock but maybe I need a little bit more Core/Cache voltage, I'll try.


You can isolate the memory a lot easier with Stress App if you take the time to install Linux, two hours of this will show any issues there.


----------



## eddward

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You can isolate the memory a lot easier with Stress App if you take the time to install Linux, two hours of this will show any issues there.


I know about that, but I have no experience with Linux at all. I will rather stick with HCI memtest.
The thing is that I didn't know that there is possibility to tweak Core/Cache voltage when messing with DRAM frequency/timings. Also my 4.6Ghz overclock is maybe not as stable as I though. Build is pretty new, some 2 weeks old. I'll bump 0.005V Core voltage, test it over night and will see what happen. Since I passed 1000% coverage without any error it should be very close to fully stable memory settings, probably one tiny tweak needed.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr-Dark*
> 
> Can i join this now ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Corsair Plat 32GB 2666mhz @ 2666 CL14-14-14-32 1T 1.360V
> 
> SA + 200mv offser = 1.032v


see the OP for the proper dataline for a sub. brits are pretty sticky about these things.


----------



## Mr-Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> see the OP for the proper dataline for a sub. brits are pretty sticky about these things.


Done


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eddward*
> 
> I know about that, but I have no experience with Linux at all. I will rather stick with HCI memtest.
> The thing is that I didn't know that there is possibility to tweak Core/Cache voltage when messing with DRAM frequency/timings. Also my 4.6Ghz overclock is maybe not as stable as I though. Build is pretty new, some 2 weeks old. I'll bump 0.005V Core voltage, test it over night and will see what happen. Since I passed 1000% coverage without any error it should be very close to fully stable memory settings, probably one tiny tweak needed.


All reasons why one should use GSAT


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> see the OP for the proper dataline for a sub. brits are pretty sticky about these things.


But you're not British?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> But you're not British?


lol - "proper subbed".


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - "proper subbed".


"Yeah, Tommy. Before zee Germans get there."


----------



## superkyle1721

Hey guys I just picked up the Tridentz 3600CL15 kit today to replace my 3200 ripjaws V. After much consideration I have heard nothing but great things about the kit. Except the very loose tRFC which a little voltage and manual tuning should take care of. I know the kit is capable of 4000+CL12 with voltages around 1.8+ on Z170 6700K. Im curious what kind of daily driver OC settings these sticks are capable of and at what voltage? Anyone else currently running these sticks?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Hey guys I just picked up the Tridentz 3600CL15 kit today to replace my 3200 ripjaws V. After much consideration I have heard nothing but great things about the kit. Except the very loose tRFC which a little voltage and manual tuning should take care of. I know the kit is capable of 4000+CL12 with voltages around 1.8+ on Z170 6700K. Im curious what kind of daily driver OC settings these sticks are capable of and at what voltage? Anyone else currently running these sticks?


Tighten down from XMP and let us know?


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Tighten down from XMP and let us know?


Of course! Ordered from jet.com to save the 15% (I'm cheap like that). They typically take their sweet time shipping products so I figured I would learn as much as I could about them during the wait.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eddward*
> 
> I know about that, but I have no experience with Linux at all. I will rather stick with HCI memtest.


I really probably should make a video tutorial on this...


----------



## Blameless

Since the limit on tREFI seems to be reasonably low on my board I'd figure I'd see if I can completely stabilize 30000 cycles and have been refining my testing procedure a bit.

Currently, I start with a random mix of cold and warm reboots (about two dozen of them) to look for training errors, then I move to 2-3 hours of GSAT, finally I run Memtest86's bit fade (fills the memory, lets it sit for 90 minutes, then reads it) and and row hammer (not very effective on DDR4 setups, but it's still demanding enough to find some errors if refresh intervals are too long or refresh time too short) tests back to back for 5-10 loops.

Anyway, been messing with my uncore and VLs again, very conservatively. Soon I should crack 65GB/s read at sub-50ns latency at DDR-2667, probably with 24/7 stability and safe volts:


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> "Yeah, Tommy. Before zee Germans get there."


great movie!!


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic--i75820K @4.7/4.5---3200Mhz-C13-13-13-30-1T----1.45v---SA 1.06v---Stressapptest----2 Hour


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i75820K @4.7/4.5---3200Mhz-C13-13-13-30-1T----1.45v---SA 1.06v---Stressapptest----2 Hour


Ace CPU, that


----------



## stargate125645

I managed to get my 5930k to cooperate with 14-15-14-34 3333MHz RAM (4x8GiB) on a 125MHz strap (stock is 3200MHz RAM), but had to lower my cache frequency from 4.3GHz to 4.0GHz as my temperatures were already at 80c during stress testing so I couldn't raise cache voltage further (the hazards of air cooling). Should I use AIDA64 to benchmark the two settings to see which is better, or should I use gaming benchmarks since that is my main use of the computer?


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> or should I use gaming benchmarks since that is my main use of the computer?


AIDA64 greatly benefits from cache clock, however it is synthetic. Most gaming benchmarks seem to cap off at 2400MHz, with the next big improvement being 3200MHz. Best way to test is to max out FPS at as low a resolution as possible to force greater CPU load. Or you could just run 7-Zip's benchmark (which I find much better and repeatable). At the end of the day, it's really a matter of personal preference. Battlefield might be a good game to test out performance with.

Cache voltage is fine up to 1.20V, even at 80C (package I assume? even 80C Core Max is safe for stress testing). Cache clock can affect RAM stability at higher clocks however.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Ace CPU, that


Thanks
Finally gave these sticks the voltage they needed. Checked with a DMM and actual voltage is 1.474v just like what aida64 is reading.


----------



## greg1184

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i75820K @4.7/4.5---3200Mhz-C13-13-13-30-1T----1.45v---SA 1.06v---Stressapptest----2 Hour


Similar voltage to what my 3200 ram are running at only a little higher SA since I have broad well.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> or should I use gaming benchmarks since that is my main use of the computer?
> 
> 
> 
> AIDA64 greatly benefits from cache clock, however it is synthetic. Most gaming benchmarks seem to cap off at 2400MHz, with the next big improvement being 3200MHz. Best way to test is to max out FPS at as low a resolution as possible to force greater CPU load. Or you could just run 7-Zip's benchmark (which I find much better and repeatable). At the end of the day, it's really a matter of personal preference. Battlefield might be a good game to test out performance with.
> 
> Cache voltage is fine up to 1.20V, even at 80C (package I assume? even 80C Core Max is safe for stress testing). Cache clock can affect RAM stability at higher clocks however.
Click to expand...

This is core temperature I am referring to (I use CoreTemp to monitor), which I believe is the same thing as package temperature? I realize even up to 100C for core temperature is still within spec technically, but I like to keep 80C for maximum in general. Technically I have peaks in the low-mid 80s briefly for one core at a time, but generally the core temperatures stay in the high 70s so I'm OK with it. My cache voltage is 1.18V for both 4.3GHz cache/3200MHz RAM and 4.0GHz cache/3333MHz RAM. I was able to have a higher cache during winter when ambient temperatures were lower. 1.23V is needed for 4.625GHz core, for what it's worth. I haven't changed VCCSA from stock value so I couldn't even tell you what it is offhand.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> Similar voltage to what my 3200 ram are running at only a little higher SA since I have broad well.


Got a screen shot of what timing's you are running?

last time i tried 3200Mhz cl13 i only went up to 1.420v because i like that number







passed gsat for 1 hour but in HCI i got a error @ 650%

Honestly i dont think im even going to try hci this time as i couldent get gsat stable for 2 hours until i made it up to 1.45vdimm, i think that should be enough.


----------



## eddward

I think, I have it. HCI Memtest @ 1400%. I'll consider this as stable.

2x8GB 3200Mhz Corsair Vengeance, 1.37V, VCCSA 1.220V, VCCIO 1.100V.
CL15-17-17-35 1T
6700K @ 4.6/4.1Ghz
MSI Z170A GAMING M7


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Since the limit on tREFI seems to be reasonably low on my board I'd figure I'd see if I can completely stabilize 30000 cycles and have been refining my testing procedure a bit.
> 
> Currently, I start with a random mix of cold and warm reboots (about two dozen of them) to look for training errors, then I move to 2-3 hours of GSAT, finally I run Memtest86's bit fade (fills the memory, lets it sit for 90 minutes, then reads it) and and row hammer (not very effective on DDR4 setups, but it's still demanding enough to find some errors if refresh intervals are too long or refresh time too short) tests back to back for 5-10 loops.
> 
> Anyway, been messing with my uncore and VLs again, very conservatively. Soon I should crack 65GB/s read at sub-50ns latency at DDR-2667, probably with 24/7 stability and safe volts:


Lol, we have identical clocks (4.3 Core, 4.0 Cache). My timings are 14-12-11-36 CR1. Doubling tREFI earns me a 5ns reduction in latency. My only question is, what is the relationship between tREFI and DRAM Clock?


Spoiler: Just a quick test, not even closed background apps or stopped my music.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Lol, we have identical clocks (4.3 Core, 4.0 Cache). My timings are 14-12-11-36 CR1.


Looks like your extra ranks/interleaving are giving a bandwidth advantage.

What are your secondary and tertiary timings?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Doubling tREFI earns me a 5ns reduction in latency.


That's a much more substantial reduction than I see, but your denser ICs likely require a higher tREF which gives TREFI more impact.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> My only question is, what is the relationship between tREFI and DRAM Clock?


Refresh interval is normally specified in microseconds (7.8us is standard), so the higher you clock the memory the more cycles in that time frame.

At 2667MT/s (1333.3MHz actual clock) 7.8us is ~10400 cycles, the 30000 cycles I'm testing is a bit over 22us.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Thanks
> Finally gave these sticks the voltage they needed. Checked with a DMM and actual voltage is 1.474v just like what aida64 is reading.


Same here.. .I've had this 8x8GB 3200c14 kit at 1.45V (1.475 training) on two MBs. 3200c13 on the R5E, and 3400c14 on the R5E10. The 3200c14 ripjaws like 1.45V also (same ICs).


----------



## stargate125645

So what all does VCCSA do for Haswell-E? I haven't had to change mine from the stock value, which is 0.8, but I see a lot of you are in the 1s...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So what all does VCCSA do for Haswell-E? I haven't had to change mine from the stock value, which is 0.8, but I see a lot of you are in the 1s...


Are you actually using the stock value, though?


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So what all does VCCSA do for Haswell-E? I haven't had to change mine from the stock value, which is 0.8, but I see a lot of you are in the 1s...


I had to change it from 1V to 1,05V in order to get stability in HCI memtest With My i7 5930k (see overclock in sig)....
I Was stable in OCCT and realbench With 1v, but not in HCI memtest ......


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So what all does VCCSA do for Haswell-E?


It powers the system agent which is largely synonymous with the memory and PCI-E controllers.

A lot of fast ram and many PCI-E lanes in heavy use, especially combined with high uncore clocks, can necessitate higher VCCSA.


----------



## stargate125645

I may have to try to increase VCCSA then to see if my higher uncore I originally had still works. Hopefully increase frequency won't bring my temperatures up too high.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So what all does VCCSA do for Haswell-E? I haven't had to change mine from the stock value, which is 0.8, but I see a lot of you are in the 1s...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you actually using the stock value, though?
Click to expand...

I have it set as +0.001 in the BIOS and 0.8V is shown as the base value when viewing it in the BIOS. So unless it is changing on me when I boot into Windows, it is on 0.801V.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I may have to try to increase VCCSA then to see if my higher uncore I originally had still works. Hopefully increase frequency won't bring my temperatures up too high.
> I have it set as +0.001 in the BIOS and 0.8V is shown as the base value when viewing it in the BIOS. So unless it is changing on me when I boot into Windows, it is on 0.801V.


that's is very low.. good to have if your components/settings play well at that low of a VSA.


----------



## DarkIdeals

So is the consensus on Broadwell-E that 3000mhz is kinda a limit? Or do you think 3200mhz is likely enough to work on the BW-E IMC that it is worth it? I have a chance to get a 3000mhz C14 1.35v (14 16 16 35 T2) kit for cheap (slightly used), or a 3200mhz C14 1.35v (14 16 16 36 T2) for ~$60 more and i'm trying to decide which to go for (both are Dominator Platinum 4x4 quad channel 16gb kits)

I'm wondering whether 3200mhz would be redundant on BW-E due to the lacking IMC; although at the same time I kinda wonder if that did become an issue, whether I could just take the 3200mhz C14 that is causing problems and try for 3000mhz C13 or raise the command rate to 1T etc.. to compensate. Kinda torn on what to do....the 3200mhz kit comes with a neato fan too







(seriously corsair, just drop the price and drop those fans lol)


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> So is the consensus on Broadwell-E that 3000mhz is kinda a limit? Or do you think 3200mhz is likely enough to work on the BW-E IMC that it is worth it? I have a chance to get a 3000mhz C14 (14 16 16 35 T2) kit for cheap, or a 3200mhz C14 (14 16 16 36 T2) for ~$60 more and i'm trying to decide which to go for (both are Dominator Platinum 4x4 quad channel 16gb kits)
> 
> I'm wondering whether 3200mhz would be redundant on BW-E due to the lacking IMC; although at the same time I kinda wonder if that did become an issue, whether I could just take the 3200mhz C14 that is causing problems and try for 3000mhz C13. Kinda torn on what to do....the 3200mhz kit comes with a neato fan too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (seriously corsair, just drop the price and drop those fans lol)


I'm running 3792 uncore stable @ 1.25 (.300 offset) on my 6900K.

EDIT: never mind, I see you're refering to memory, not cache!


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I'm running 3792 uncore stable @ 1.25 (.300 offset) on my 6900K.
> 
> EDIT: never mind, I see you're refering to memory, not cache!


Yup, talking about RAM.

I noticed your sig says you have G.Skill 3200mhz C14, are you able to run it at that 3200mhz C14 stably on the 6800K?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Yup, talking about RAM.
> 
> I noticed your sig says you have G.Skill 3200mhz C14, are you able to run it at that 3200mhz C14 stably on the 6800K?


Check the full sig, I'm running at 3370 but 14-15-14-34. Can't get stable at 14-14-14 per GSAT.


----------



## vibraslap

FWIW I'm able to run my TridentZ at sticker speeds on my overclocked 6900k. 3200MHz 14-14-14-34 CR2 @ 1.35V, 1.0 SA, 4.3GHz 100MHz BCLK, 1.325V on the cpu. I haven't even messed with them much beyond confirming they are stable at sticker speeds on this overclock, so tighter timings could be attainable. I'd like to get mine down to CR1, but that seems far fetched based on what others here have said/experienced.


----------



## vibraslap

Also I was unable to get the Ripjaw V's(the one djgar is using) to run at 3200 on my system, but the TridentZ's were fine. I've seen a few people here get them to work however, and some have said that they're the same chips just branded differently. This differs from my experience however.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Check the full sig, I'm running at 3370 but 14-15-14-34. Can't get stable at 14-14-14 per GSAT.


Ohhh, didn't see the actual sig, I meant your "sig rig" The "great white hope" one. It said 3200mhz C14 for that one. I see what you mean though. That's interesting that you got such high RAM speeds, I've been hearing pretty significant number of claims saying Broadwell-E has a fairly worse IMC than Haswell-E both in uncore/cache and RAM speed averages.

I'm still trying to decide whether it's worth it to shell out $60 more to get new 3200mhz C14 RAM with 36 quaternary word (14 16 16 36 2T) rather than paying the $60 LESS to get a used kit of 3000mhz C14 with 35 quaternary (14 16 16 35 2T) I imagine I could probably at least get down to maybe 14 15 15 35 2T on the 3200mhz kit and with any luck maybe 1T or 13 Cas Latency (both would be great luck); but i'm wondering whether its worth $60 more; although you do get the corsair warranty too, so it's kinda iffy.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> FWIW I'm able to run my TridentZ at sticker speeds on my overclocked 6900k. 3200MHz 14-14-14-34 CR2 @ 1.35V, 1.0 SA, 4.3GHz 100MHz BCLK, 1.325V on the cpu. I haven't even messed with them much beyond confirming they are stable at sticker speeds on this overclock, so tighter timings could be attainable. I'd like to get mine down to CR1, but that seems far fetched based on what others here have said/experienced.


Oh nice. This is really making me wonder about whether the 3200mhz C14 kit is worth it now lol. $60 isn't "that" much in the long run, although I could get a 32GB kit of 3000mhz C15 for just only $50 more than that; the what if's never end with tech prices lol.

I currently have a 16GB 2666mhz C15 kit of dom plat's, trying to figure out what would be the best replacement for them.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Also I was unable to get the Ripjaw V's(the one djgar is using) to run at 3200 on my system, but the TridentZ's were fine. I've seen a few people here get them to work however, and some have said that they're the same chips just branded differently. This differs from my experience however.


I had a hard time on 100 strap but worked better at 125 strap - check the settings in my sig


----------



## Synik

I got mine running 3200 13-15-13-28 t1. Seems like some have issue with 2nd timing like the other guy at 14-15-14


----------



## ikjadoon

That 3200 C13 kit from G.Skill "exists":

http://www.mercateo.com/kw/f43200c13d16gtz/f43200c13d16gtz.html

You can get the G.Skill 16GB 3200 C14 for $110 (or even $90 when there's a sale going on). I don't think the C13 will be able to match that price point. Man, DDR4 has matured. 3200 / C13 is quite close in latency to the 2200 / C9 I have now.


----------



## New green

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/vLCr6X

For increasing minimum fps on games like fallout4 is 4133c19 better than 3600c15 on a 4.8 binned 6700k, z170m OC formula? What would a realistic set of ram be for a 4.7 binned 6700k?


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> That 3200 C13 kit from G.Skill "exists":
> 
> http://www.mercateo.com/kw/f43200c13d16gtz/f43200c13d16gtz.html
> 
> You can get the G.Skill 16GB 3200 C14 for $110 (or even $90 when there's a sale going on). I don't think the C13 will be able to match that price point. Man, DDR4 has matured. 3200 / C13 is quite close in latency to the 2200 / C9 I have now.


Oh it exists alright, SUPER rare and thus SUPER expensive though lol.

https://www.jacob.de/Arbeitsspeicher-RAM/DDR4/memory-D4-3200-F4-3200C13D-16GTZ-artnr-2949606.html

I must admit it's pretty cool that it exists though. I wonder if it'd be possible to get 3200mhz C12 (12 14 14 33 1T ) or something on it. That would just be amazing lol, you would probably be even FASTER latency than like 2133mhz C9 DDR3 speeds while still having the enormous bandwidth of DDR4.

Even if you couldn't get 3200, I imagine 3000mhz C12 is actually fairly likely possible.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Ohhh, didn't see the actual sig, I meant your "sig rig" The "great white hope" one. It said 3200mhz C14 for that one. I see what you mean though. That's interesting that you got such high RAM speeds, *I've been hearing pretty significant number of claims saying Broadwell-E has a fairly worse IMC than Haswell-E* both in uncore/cache and RAM speed averages.
> 
> I'm still trying to decide whether it's worth it to shell out $60 more to get new 3200mhz C14 RAM with 36 quaternary word (14 16 16 36 2T) rather than paying the $60 LESS to get a used kit of 3000mhz C14 with 35 quaternary (14 16 16 35 2T) I imagine I could probably at least get down to maybe 14 15 15 35 2T on the 3200mhz kit and with any luck maybe 1T or 13 Cas Latency (both would be great luck); but i'm wondering whether its worth $60 more; although you do get the corsair warranty too, so it's kinda iffy.
> Oh nice. This is really making me wonder about whether the 3200mhz C14 kit is worth it now lol. $60 isn't "that" much in the long run, although I could get a 32GB kit of 3000mhz C15 for just only $50 more than that; the what if's never end with tech prices lol.
> I currently have a 16GB 2666mhz C15 kit of dom plat's, trying to figure out what would be the best replacement for them.


Where ever you heard this ... well, they do not know what they are talking about. 3400 is the sweetspot for ram on BWE.



you need better sources, else you end up completely misled. .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *New green*
> 
> http://pcpartpicker.com/list/vLCr6X
> 
> For increasing minimum fps on games like fallout4 is 4133c19 better than 3600c15 on a 4.8 binned 6700k, z170m OC formula? What would a realistic set of ram be for a 4.7 binned 6700k?


unlikely you will see a meaningful FPS difference once above 3600, unless your cache speed is 4.8 or higher.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Where ever you heard this ... well, they do not know what they are talking about. 3400 is the sweetspot for ram on BWE.
> 
> 
> 
> you need better sources, else you end up completely misled. .
> unlikely you will see a meaningful FPS difference once above 3600, unless your cache speed is 4.8 or higher.


Hmm, interesting; thanks.

Perhaps I misunderstood; maybe they were only referring to cache. Or maybe I just inferred that the ram speed also suffered due to cache overclocking being worse on broadwell (topping at ~3.8ghz unlike my 5960X that hits 4.3ghz easily etc..)


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Oh it exists alright, SUPER rare and thus SUPER expensive though lol.
> 
> https://www.jacob.de/Arbeitsspeicher-RAM/DDR4/memory-D4-3200-F4-3200C13D-16GTZ-artnr-2949606.html
> 
> I must admit it's pretty cool that it exists though. I wonder if it'd be possible to get 3200mhz C12 (12 14 14 33 1T ) or something on it. That would just be amazing lol, you would probably be even FASTER latency than like 2133mhz C9 DDR3 speeds while still having the enormous bandwidth of DDR4.
> 
> Even if you couldn't get 3200, I imagine 3000mhz C12 is actually fairly likely possible.


I know on Skylake users have been able to achieve near 4000cl12 but with some extreme voltages. I imagine as ddr4 matures 3200c12 will easily be a possibility.


----------



## Desolutional

This is what I've managed to get now, haven't touched the Tertiary timings, just tRFC and tREFI, what other timings will help with High Density, Double Sided DIMMs?:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Hmm, interesting; thanks.
> 
> Perhaps I misunderstood; maybe they were only referring to cache. Or maybe I just inferred that the ram speed also suffered due to cache overclocking being worse on broadwell (topping at ~3.8ghz unlike my 5960X that hits 4.3ghz easily etc..)


look at the bandwidth numbers (and it's with 64GB)... very difficult/impossible to match on my 5960X with cache up to 4.6 and ram at 3200c13 or 32001c12 There's more to performance when comparing generations than clock speed. IPC, IPT etc.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> look at the bandwidth numbers (and it's with 64GB)... very difficult/impossible to match on my 5960X with cache up to 4.6 and ram at 3200c13 or 32001c12 There's more to performance when comparing generations than clock speed. IPC, IPT etc.


Isn't BW-E supposed to be limited to ~68gb/s bandwidth iirc though? Those are impressive I must admit. What would you recommend as the best RAM to get for broadwell-e? I can get 32gb 3000mhz C15 for $215, or I can get 3200mhz C14 in 16GB 4x4 for $180; or I can get used 3000mhz C14 in 16gb for $120. I kinda worry about going for like the 32gb 3333mhz C16 kits as I don't think they keep the same performance ratio as these others in regards to frequency/true latency ratio.

Kinda wondering about risking two kits of 16GB 3200 C14 but I know rampage boards are iffy with 8 DIMMs active at times.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Isn't BW-E supposed to be limited to ~68gb/s bandwidth iirc though?


Any such bandwidth figures listed are simply obtained by multiplying the maximum theoretical bandwidth of a DIMM at supported clock speeds by the number of channels. There is no intrinsic performance limit baked into the parts...it's entirely dependent on clock speeds of the CPU, memory controller, and DRAM, as well as the timings of the latter.

HW-E on officially supports up to DDR4-2133 (68GiB/s peak theoretical w/quad channel) and BW-E only officially supports 2400 maximum (76.8GiB/s peak). Overclocking, or simply using memory with an XMP profile, can dramatically exceed these figures.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Oh it exists alright, SUPER rare and thus SUPER expensive though lol.
> 
> https://www.jacob.de/Arbeitsspeicher-RAM/DDR4/memory-D4-3200-F4-3200C13D-16GTZ-artnr-2949606.html
> 
> I must admit it's pretty cool that it exists though. I wonder if it'd be possible to get 3200mhz C12 (12 14 14 33 1T ) or something on it. That would just be amazing lol, you would probably be even FASTER latency than like 2133mhz C9 DDR3 speeds while still having the enormous bandwidth of DDR4.
> 
> Even if you couldn't get 3200, I imagine 3000mhz C12 is actually fairly likely possible.


Ouch. Well, haha, they must be very well binned. Yeah, 3200/12 is the just about the same as 2666/10: that's insane. I'm actually surprised how quickly DDR4 has moved. It take ages for DDR3 to get into ~240+ PI (MHz / CL). But, here's DDR4, for $100 16GB of 228 PI RAM. 3000MHz / 12 wouldn't be bad at all, but for some reason, I kind of like the number 3200MHz as it's double what the "old" standard of DDR3 used to be, 1600MHz, haha.


----------



## Synik

I thought something was wrong with my results then i realized AIDA64 memory/cache benchmark is determined by many factors. It is really hard to compare my results with other systems.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> look at the bandwidth numbers (and it's with 64GB)... very difficult/impossible to match on my 5960X with cache up to 4.6 and ram at 3200c13 or 32001c12 There's more to performance when comparing generations than clock speed. IPC, IPT etc.


Sure, with 10 vs. 8 cores - that's cheating


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Any such bandwidth figures listed are simply obtained by multiplying the maximum theoretical bandwidth of a DIMM at supported clock speeds by the number of channels. There is no intrinsic performance limit baked into the parts...it's entirely dependent on clock speeds of the CPU, memory controller, and DRAM, as well as the timings of the latter.
> 
> HW-E on officially supports up to DDR4-2133 (68GiB/s peak theoretical w/quad channel) and BW-E only officially supports 2400 maximum (76.8GiB/s peak). Overclocking, or simply using memory with an XMP profile, can dramatically exceed these figures.


Ah, I see. That makes sense. I forget that Intels spec sheets almost always only factor in the JDEC verified speeds for that kinda stuff.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Ouch. Well, haha, they must be very well binned. Yeah, 3200/12 is the just about the same as 2666/10: that's insane. I'm actually surprised how quickly DDR4 has moved. It take ages for DDR3 to get into ~240+ PI (MHz / CL). But, here's DDR4, for $100 16GB of 228 PI RAM. 3000MHz / 12 wouldn't be bad at all, but for some reason, I kind of like the number 3200MHz as it's double what the "old" standard of DDR3 used to be, 1600MHz, haha.


Yeah it's crazy. remember not so long ago the "experts" were saying that it would take DDR4 4266mhz or faster RAM to match ~DDR3 2133mhz C10 kits; but here we are slightly beating DDR3 2133 C10 with only DDR4 3200 C13-14 etc.. I think people overestimated how large the latencies would become on 3000mhz+ RAM speeds. At first even the 2133/2400mhz etc.. DDR4 was C15 or C16, so they probably figured 3200mhz DDR4 would be like C20 lol.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> This is what I've managed to get now, haven't touched the Tertiary timings, just tRFC and tREFI


Interleaving those extra ranks is definitely giving you a substantial read advantage over my four lower density sticks.

This is what I'm getting with my new settings (GSAT stable, btw) that feature extensive secondary and tertiary tuning:



























Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> what other timings will help with High Density, Double Sided DIMMs?


The same ones that help any memory, which is most of them, but there are some that can probably leverage your greater memory parallelism better than others.

See how far you can tighten your IOLs before you run into issues. Note that this as much a memory controller timing as a memory timing, so it may not respond much to things like VDIMM, but could respond to VCCSA and/or VCCIO.

I'm not sure how many bank groups your DIMMs have, but any timing with a _L in it generally refers to the delay for the "long" group and reducing these parameters can improve performance where there is frequent bank switching. TCCD_L is generally the most important of these.

Tightening those tertiary timings that end in DR (different row) or DD (different DIMM), which is most of them really, will help more the more DIMMs per channel and the more rows per IC you have. Many of the tertiaries can be tightened quite a bit on most DIMMs/ICs, especially at lower frequences (I can usually run everything except tWRSR at 1 up to about 2133 on DDR3 and ~2800 ish on DDR4).

Really though, it's a ton of trial, error and testing to discover what's worth changing and what's not, then making sure you're still stable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> remember not so long ago the "experts" were saying that it would take DDR4 4266mhz or faster RAM to match ~DDR3 2133mhz C10 kits; but here we are slightly beating DDR3 2133 C10 with only DDR4 3200 C13-14 etc..


DDR4 is typically a little faster at similar timings due to bank groups and some other enhancements.

I'm running 2667 CL12 and it kicks the snot out of the DDR3-2133 CL9 I was using with my SB-E/Ivy-E, even at lower uncore clocks...though some of that could be due to HW-E's memory controller. Though I don't personally have any desktop Skylake systems, tests with them show similar trends...DDR3 needs to be run tighter to match DDR4 at the same clocks.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Kinda wondering about risking two kits of 16GB 3200 C14 but I know rampage boards are iffy with 8 DIMMs active at times.


The bigger risk there isn't the 8 slots. It can handle that, but mixing kits is asking for trouble. It might work if you are ready to tweak and they are close enough, but there is ZERO guarantee that it will and virtual certainty that it might cause you problems or require getting down and dirty with timing and loosen things up even from stock settings. The closer the kits are in characteristics, timing, die rev, etc... the more likely there is a working solution.

Short version: "run away" unless you like science projects. 8 dimms works just fine with SA adjusted as required.

FWIW, I have an X99Pro and a RVE with 8dimms. The X99Pro is actually 2 32G kits of (both 3000, one CAS14, one CAS15) (I ran that in the RVE briefly and then it moved to the X99). The RVE is an 8DIMM kit binned from the GSkill. Both run fine, I've not looked at Aida memory numbers and can't do so right now. However... see above.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> FWIW I'm able to run my TridentZ at sticker speeds on my overclocked 6900k. 3200MHz 14-14-14-34 CR2 @ 1.35V, 1.0 SA, 4.3GHz 100MHz BCLK, 1.325V on the cpu. I haven't even messed with them much beyond confirming they are stable at sticker speeds on this overclock, so tighter timings could be attainable. *I'd like to get mine down to CR1, but that seems far fetched based on what others here have said/experienced.*


Is it?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Interleaving those extra ranks is definitely giving you a substantial read advantage over my four lower density sticks.
> 
> This is what I'm getting with my new settings (GSAT stable, btw) that feature extensive secondary and tertiary tuning:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> The same ones that help any memory, which is most of them, but there are some that can probably leverage your greater memory parallelism better than others.
> 
> See how far you can tighten your IOLs before you run into issues. Note that this as much a memory controller timing as a memory timing, so it may not respond much to things like VDIMM, but could respond to VCCSA and/or VCCIO.
> 
> I'm not sure how many bank groups your DIMMs have, but any timing with a _L in it generally refers to the delay for the "long" group and reducing these parameters can improve performance where there is frequent bank switching. TCCD_L is generally the most important of these.
> 
> Tightening those tertiary timings that end in DR (different row) or DD (different DIMM), which is most of them really, will help more the more DIMMs per channel and the more rows per IC you have. Many of the tertiaries can be tightened quite a bit on most DIMMs/ICs, especially at lower frequences (I can usually run everything except tWRSR at 1 up to about 2133 on DDR3 and ~2800 ish on DDR4).
> 
> Really though, it's a ton of trial, error and testing to discover what's worth changing and what's not, then making sure you're still stable.
> DDR4 is typically a little faster at similar timings due to bank groups and some other enhancements.
> 
> I'm running 2667 CL12 and it kicks the snot out of the DDR3-2133 CL9 I was using with my SB-E/Ivy-E, even at lower uncore clocks...though some of that could be due to HW-E's memory controller. Though I don't personally have any desktop Skylake systems, tests with them show similar trends...DDR3 needs to be run tighter to match DDR4 at the same clocks
> 
> 
> .


Interesting tRRD settings, care to explain?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Interesting tRRD settings, care to explain?


I can run TRRD/TFAW as low as 1/4 without any apparent stability issues, but there is no performance difference, in anything I can find, below 2/8.

TRRD_L is 4 because I was testing different firmware versions and entering the timings from memory and forgot to set it to 2 when at the time I was taking these screen shots. I'd still use tFAW 8 even if tRRD_L of 4 was necessary as it's a cap on the lower end of the setting; it won't hurt anything if the L bank timings need to be used, but might help if there are several S bank accesses sequentially.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I can run TRRD/TFAW as low as 1/4 without any apparent stability issues


Hello

Should read "I can input settings". This is a case of the motherboard being smarter than the user.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Sure, with 10 vs. 8 cores - that's cheating


.. but of course, why else get a BWE?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Interleaving those extra ranks is definitely giving you a substantial read advantage over my four lower density sticks.
> 
> This is what I'm getting with my new settings (GSAT stable, btw) that feature extensive secondary and tertiary tuning:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same ones that help any memory, which is most of them, but there are some that can probably leverage your greater memory parallelism better than others.
> 
> See how far you can tighten your IOLs before you run into issues. Note that this as much a memory controller timing as a memory timing, so it may not respond much to things like VDIMM, but could respond to VCCSA and/or VCCIO.
> 
> I'm not sure how many bank groups your DIMMs have, but any timing with a _L in it generally refers to the delay for the "long" group and reducing these parameters can improve performance where there is frequent bank switching. TCCD_L is generally the most important of these.
> 
> Tightening those tertiary timings that end in DR (different row) or DD (different DIMM), which is most of them really, will help more the more DIMMs per channel and the more rows per IC you have. Many of the tertiaries can be tightened quite a bit on most DIMMs/ICs, especially at lower frequences (I can usually run everything except tWRSR at 1 up to about 2133 on DDR3 and ~2800 ish on DDR4).
> 
> Really though, it's a ton of trial, error and testing to discover what's worth changing and what's not, then making sure you're still stable.
> DDR4 is typically a little faster at similar timings due to bank groups and some other enhancements.
> 
> I'm running 2667 CL12 and it kicks the snot out of the DDR3-2133 CL9 I was using with my SB-E/Ivy-E, even at lower uncore clocks...though some of that could be due to HW-E's memory controller. Though I don't personally have any desktop Skylake systems, tests with them show similar trends...DDR3 needs to be run tighter to match DDR4 at the same clocks.


tRTP 3 - amazing with DDR4
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> [/B]
> 
> Is it?


Right - there is so much bad info floating around... or folks don't know how to ask a question without trying to be provocative, quoting rumor of just plan wrong "facts". "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... but not their own facts".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Should read "I can input settings". This is a case of the motherboard being smarter than the user.


so Praz, where can we get our (my?) grubby fingers on the chipset minimums for the timings we have access to in Bios?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Should read "I can input settings". This is a case of the motherboard being smarter than the user.


I can bench a difference between tRRD 2 and 4.

I don't know if TRRD 1 is actually doing anything, but 2 and 3 do. It's subtle, but it's consistently there in things like WinRAR which is extremely sensitive to memory latency.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I can bench a difference between tRRD 2 and 4.
> 
> I don't know if TRRD 1 is actually doing anything, but 2 certainly is.


At the chipset level, 4 is the minimum spacing for tRRD as each burst is 4 clocks. You can't send an ACT while the DQ lines are still toggling. Most of the time, the lower values are available in firmware as the bits are open which reverts to the minimum spacing or incurs a penalty due to a collision. Occasionally, Intel uses an offset.

tRRD_L has no tFAW, as there is no situation where there would be 4 concurrent ACTs to the same bank group.


----------



## Blameless

All I really know is that tRRD 2 has been producing better results in WinRAR's bench, which is extremely consistent on a stripped down system (sub 0.1% deviation between runs).

I'll set the tRRD values back to 4 and tFAW back to 16 to triple check. It's possible I adjusted something I didn't mean to when originally benching timing changes or that the board is changing things itself.

Gigabyte has a nasty habit of having their memory timing settings change things they aren't supposed to or be outright mislabeled in their beta (and sometimes release) firmware, so I have to check timing configurator, memtweakit, or AIDA64 to make sure of them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> At the chipset level, 4 is the minimum spacing for tRRD as each burst is 4 clocks.


What about burst chops? Can't those still be one or two clocks long? Or do those still require the same 4 cycles and just truncate the transfer?

Wouldn't interleaving allow bursts to be staggered anyway?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> tRRD_L has no tFAW, as there is no situation where there would be 4 concurrent ACTs to the same bank group.


I was not aware of this. Have a link to anything with more detail on DDR4's bank groups that includes this information?


----------



## Blameless

Just double checked my timings in software and rebenched tRRD 2 / tRRD_L 2 / tFAW 8 vs. tRRD 4 / tRRD_L 4 / tFAW 16.

Clean boot to a lean (28 processes) Windows 7 install with a 10 minute wait so all delayed start processes could finish each time. Opened WinRAR, pressed alt+b, waited 30 seconds for the bold bench figure, then canceled test and repeated the bench ten times. Did this exact thing with each timing set, after I confirmed the timings were sticking in AIDA64 and Timing Configurator.

After the first run, the variation was essentially 0.

2 / 2 / 8 = 22,278 KB/s (which is actually really damn good for a 4.3GHz Haswell-E hexcore, btw)

4 / 4 / 16 = 22,278 KB/s

Well, looks like I made a mistake with my timings my first time round, or didn't adequately ensure there were no other loads in the test environment. Thanks praz and Raja for helping me clear this up (Edit: and Scone for originally pointing it out). Learn something new every day.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> tRTP 3 - amazing with DDR4


I know that one's real because the system failed to post the first time I tried it and the second time it corrupted my Lubuntu USB stick.

Just going from tRTP 4 to 3 needed a ~20mV bump to make it stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I know that one's real because the system failed to post the first time I tried it and the s*econd time it corrupted my Lubuntu USB stick.
> *
> Just going from tRTP 4 to 3 needed a ~20mV bump to make it stable.


this is what many folks don't get about tweaking ram to this level... it's not simply a failed post or boot, it can completely corrupt an OS install and even Bios. As you did... use an OS image that can be rebuilt easily.


----------



## Blameless

Yep, back in the Socket A days I started using booting to Memtest86 to make sure I wouldn't spontaneously corrupt any more Windows installs when trying new OC settings. Recently, I've moved to Linux live USB sticks and GSAT for the same purposes...if it can't pass at least a few minutes of GSAT, I won't let it try to boot from my internal drives.

Way easier to copy an iso image to a usb stick than it is to reinstall Window from scratch or try to remember what I changed after restoring a week old backup.


----------



## djgar

Is there a reasonable explanation why my copies are always noticeably lower than reads / writes with my 6900K?


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Right - there is so much bad info floating around... or folks don't know how to ask a question without trying to be provocative, quoting rumor of just plan wrong "facts". "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... but not their own facts".


these posts from the Broadwell-e thread
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> My eventual goal for this OC is 4.4Ghz, 1.346V, 3200Mhz 14-14-14-34 CR1


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuhfhrh*
> 
> @Jpmboy Has also had trouble with 1T on BDW-E, it might not be doable depending on your IMC.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nexxusty*
> 
> 14-14-14-34-CR1 is very hopeful... you need to bin to get that or be very lucky.


This is the information I was going off of. But what is your experience? Will more VCCSA and VCCIO help get me stable on CR1? Loosening other timings? Any other settings? This rig is honestly my first attempt at overclocking so I'm extremely open to guidance.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> these posts from the Broadwell-e thread
> 
> This is the information I was going off of. But what is your experience? Will more VCCSA and VCCIO help get me stable on CR1? Loosening other timings? Any other settings? This rig is honestly my first attempt at overclocking so I'm extremely open to guidance.


Those posts are all taken out of context. 3400 is possible with good memory and the right testing methodology


----------



## vibraslap

Not sure how they were taken out of context, they were direct replies to my post...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> right testing methodology


Can you to expand on this? I'd really appreciate some guidance.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Not sure how they were taken out of context, they were direct replies to my post...
> Can you to expand on this? I'd really appreciate some guidance.


From what you've told us so far, it doesn't even sound like you've attempted 1T. Whilst using XMP timings, a slight bump in DRAM voltage may be all that is required


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> What about burst chops? Can't those still be one or two clocks long? Or do those still require the same 4 cycles and just truncate the transfer?


A burst chop is still 4 clocks from a timing point of view, with 2 clocks masked. There may be some instances where a command can be sent during the remaining 2 clocks, but nothing I have access to at home to prove or disprove it. With the way accesses work, a majority of the data will be written at full length, as it's wasteful not to.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Wouldn't interleaving allow bursts to be staggered anyway?


Which is exactly how more than two concurrent ACTs to the same bank group are avoided - that's what interleaving is for. Priority is always given to different banks first, and there is seldom more than 6 concurrent ACTs (even with server workloads), which remains within the 8 different bank window.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I was not aware of this. Have a link to anything with more detail on DDR4's bank groups that includes this information?


Once you get your head around what is written above, this will fall into place.


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> From what you've told us so far, it doesn't even sound like you've attempted 1T. Whilst using XMP timings, a slight bump in DRAM voltage may be all that is required


I did attempt it and it was unstable at 1.35V, 1.0V SA, untouched VCCIO, I'll try again tonight incrementing .05V DRAM voltage up to 1.4ish. I'm not sure if I should go much higher than that, or what would you consider a safe voltage cap?


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Ah, I see. That makes sense. I forget that Intels spec sheets almost always only factor in the JDEC verified speeds for that kinda stuff.
> Yeah it's crazy. remember not so long ago the "experts" were saying that it would take DDR4 4266mhz or faster RAM to match ~DDR3 2133mhz C10 kits; but here we are slightly beating DDR3 2133 C10 with only DDR4 3200 C13-14 etc.. I think people overestimated how large the latencies would become on 3000mhz+ RAM speeds. At first even the 2133/2400mhz etc.. DDR4 was C15 or C16, so they probably figured 3200mhz DDR4 would be like C20 lol.


Really? Wow, I didn't follow the discussion as DDR4 was coming around. But, because of DDR4's relative immaturity, people post the most inane benches. I saw one review that thought it would be useful to bench these sticks:



How useful. 2133MHz C15 vs 3000MHz C15. I wonder, which one will be faster? I don't want to post the link to avoid shaming the reviewer, but come on, man.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> DDR4 is typically a little faster at similar timings due to bank groups and some other enhancements.
> 
> I'm running 2667 CL12 and it kicks the snot out of the DDR3-2133 CL9 I was using with my SB-E/Ivy-E, even at lower uncore clocks...though some of that could be due to HW-E's memory controller. Though I don't personally have any desktop Skylake systems, tests with them show similar trends...DDR3 needs to be run tighter to match DDR4 at the same clocks.


Oh, nice. I had heard that about DDR4 (i.e., MHz / CL isn't 100% comparable between DDR generations), but I never knew why. Thanks for the heads up about "bank groups" -- I'm google'ing away now, haha.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> this is what many folks don't get about tweaking ram to this level... it's not simply a failed post or boot, it can completely corrupt an OS install and even Bios. As you did... use an OS image that can be rebuilt easily.


I apologize for not reading the whole thread; I only got through the last 5 pages. But, "this level", you're talking about secondary and tertiary timings, correct? Poor peasants like me, who just mess around with primary timings, shouldn't necessarily be as worried, right?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I did attempt it and it was unstable at 1.35V, 1.0V SA, untouched VCCIO, I'll try again tonight incrementing .05V DRAM voltage up to 1.4ish. I'm not sure if I should go much higher than that, or what would you consider a safe voltage cap?


Try up to 1.45v on DRAM. I'd missed the fact you were using 64GB.

1.0v VCCSA is slightly optimistic with that much memory. I would be trying between 1.1 - 1.15v


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Try up to 1.45v on DRAM. I'd missed the fact you were using 64GB.
> 
> 1.0v VCCSA is slightly optimistic with that much memory. I would be trying between 1.1 - 1.15v


Thanks, this is exactly the kind of information I needed. I'll try tonight after work and report back.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Is there a reasonable explanation why my copies are always noticeably lower than reads / writes with my 6900K?


really need to see your complete timings...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> these posts from the Broadwell-e thread
> 
> This is the information I was going off of. But what is your experience? Will more VCCSA and VCCIO help get me stable on CR1? Loosening other timings? Any other settings? This rig is honestly my first attempt at overclocking so I'm extremely open to guidance.


My post relates to the 64GB kit I am using... 1T just hasn;t worked. 1T on a 32GB Ripjaw kit 3200c14, worked fine at 3400c14-14-14-1T with 1.45V.
So.. I run the 64GB kit at 3400 c14-14-14-32-2T and it is plenty fast.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> *Try up to 1.45v on DRAM*. I'd missed the fact you were using 64GB.
> 
> 1.0v VCCSA is slightly optimistic with that much memory. I would be trying between 1.1 - 1.15v


I second this. Seems that the b-die based 8GB sticks come alive at 1.45V.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Really? Wow, I didn't follow the discussion as DDR4 was coming around. But, because of DDR4's relative immaturity, people post the most inane benches. I saw one review that thought it would be useful to bench these sticks:
> 
> 
> 
> How useful. 2133MHz C15 vs 3000MHz C15. I wonder, which one will be faster? I don't want to post the link to avoid shaming the reviewer, but come on, man.
> Oh, nice. I had heard that about DDR4 (i.e., MHz / CL isn't 100% comparable between DDR generations), but I never knew why. Thanks for the heads up about "bank groups" -- I'm google'ing away now, haha.
> I apologize for not reading the whole thread; I only got through the last 5 pages. But, "this level", you're talking about secondary and tertiary timings, correct? Poor peasants like me, who just mess around with primary timings, shouldn't necessarily be as worried, right?


well... you can completely bork an OS install without ever touching secondary timings. Depends on how far off the reservation you take the pony.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> really need to see your complete timings...


Strictly the mains: 14-15-14-34-CR1 - everything else in auto. DRAM current @ 130%. SVID disabled, power phase std, training enabled.

Thanks!


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I second this. Seems that the b-die based 8GB sticks come alive at 1.45V.


I'm using 4x 16gb sticks if that makes a difference.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I'm using 4x 16gb sticks if that makes a difference.


I'd be happy with what you are running now.


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'd be happy with what you are running now.


Can you go into more detail as to why?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Can you go into more detail as to why?


Because 4x16GB at that speed with a command rate of 1 is not easy on anything, hence my answer - I'd be happy with achieving what you have.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Really? Wow, I didn't follow the discussion as DDR4 was coming around. But, because of DDR4's relative immaturity, people post the most inane benches. I saw one review that thought it would be useful to bench these sticks:
> 
> 
> 
> How useful. 2133MHz C15 vs 3000MHz C15. I wonder, which one will be faster? I don't want to post the link to avoid shaming the reviewer, but come on, man.
> Oh, nice. I had heard that about DDR4 (i.e., MHz / CL isn't 100% comparable between DDR generations), but I never knew why. Thanks for the heads up about "bank groups" -- I'm google'ing away now, haha.
> I apologize for not reading the whole thread; I only got through the last 5 pages. But, "this level", you're talking about secondary and tertiary timings, correct? Poor peasants like me, who just mess around with primary timings, shouldn't necessarily be as worried, right?


Well to be fair, comparing two equal latency RAM sticks is actually a very good way to show real world and/or benchmark improvement of ONLY the frequency increase. So like if you were curious of whether 3000mhz RAM is a big enough increase in perf over 2400mhz to justify buying a new kit; his review would be helpful. But at the same time I agree partly with what you're saying. Testing a C15 2133mhz kit when flatout BETTER kits can be had for ~$10-20 more is just....I can't even....


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Because 4x16GB at that speed with a command rate of 1 is not easy on anything, hence my answer - I'd be happy with achieving what you have.


I'm fine with taking you at your word on that, but are there any resources you would recommend that explain how this stuff works? I.E. what is the limiting factor? There has to be more science to this than just throwing numbers at the wall and seeing what sticks from experience.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I'm fine with taking you at your word on that, but are there any resources you would recommend that explain how this stuff works? I.E. what is the limiting factor? There has to be more science to this than just throwing numbers at the wall and seeing what sticks from experience.


That is exactly what 90% of people will do, even the long standing ones.

Limiting factors like that of the capability of memory IC you are using, and that of the CPU's memory controller being the most obvious considerations. 1T at higher densities is more work as there is more memory to address, strangely - and you are reducing the number of clocks that need to elapse between commands


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> There has to be more science to this than just throwing numbers at the wall and seeing what sticks from experience.


There is, but with so many system variables and such a spectrum of silicon quality, you eventually get to the point where a lot of trial and error becomes inevitable.

Once you know the tendencies of certain memory ICs (In your case, SK hynix H5AN4G8NMFR, I believe) and CPU IMCs, you can at least have a vague idea of where to start...and with higher end memory, much of the binning may have already been done for you, so taking a peek at the XMP tables can reveal even more.

But, again, trial and error is inevitable.


----------



## Silent Scone

Maxed out what I can do with this particular kit, reducing tRCD for example seems to be out of reach below 1.45v


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> well... you can completely bork an OS install without ever touching secondary timings. Depends on how far off the reservation you take the pony.










Haha, I'll take it. I'll just stress test it a lot before "committing" to an install, haha.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Well to be fair, comparing two equal latency RAM sticks is actually a very good way to show real world and/or benchmark improvement of ONLY the frequency increase. So like if you were curious of whether 3000mhz RAM is a big enough increase in perf over 2400mhz to justify buying a new kit; his review would be helpful. But at the same time I agree partly with what you're saying. Testing a C15 2133mhz kit when flatout BETTER kits can be had for ~$10-20 more is just....I can't even....


True; academically, I can see the interest, but it's almost like saying, "we have a runner here. He has two legs. We're going to keep one leg fat, but we're going to really work out the other one. Let's see how fast he can run with different workout regimens for just that one leg."

I mean, I still read it out of curiosity, haha.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Maxed out what I can do with this particular kit, reducing tRCD for example seems to be out of reach below 1.45v
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Is that at 1.42v or 1.45v DIMM eventual, and is that th 3200 TZ or 3200 GV?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Is that at 1.42v or 1.45v DIMM eventual, and is that th 3200 TZ or 3200 GV?


1.42v POST and no set eventual, 3200TZ C14 kit.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Strictly the mains: 14-15-14-34-CR1 - everything else in auto. DRAM current @ 130%. SVID disabled, power phase std, training enabled.
> 
> Thanks!


post up the three tabs in Memtweakit, or asrock timing config...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I'm using 4x 16gb sticks if that makes a difference.


I agree with scone 100%. You've done very well with that kit!


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> post up the three tabs in Memtweakit, or asrock timing config...


Hmm, I saw Scone has the same symptom - might be inherent in the genes ...

I guess I should install Memtweakit - I tend to be over-paranoid about these kinds of software







.


----------



## Praz

Hello

A couple of G.Skill 3600MHz CAS15 kits. Memory voltage - 1.35.

Praz---R5E10-i7 6950X @ 4.2/3.5---3400MHz-32GB-C14-14-14-36-1T----CPU 1.256V---SA 0.976V---VCCIN 1.824V---HCI 635%---GSAT 2 Hours


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> post up the three tabs in Memtweakit, or asrock timing config...


OK, found it and used it ...


----------



## Synik

how are you guys getting mem tweakit? I downloaded it from non asus site and didn't work. Asus site gives me 404 error;


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synik*
> 
> how are you guys getting mem tweakit? I downloaded it from non asus site and didn't work. Asus site gives me 404 error;


 MemTweakIt_Win7-81-10_V20225.zip 3656k .zip file


----------



## Synik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> MemTweakIt_Win7-81-10_V20225.zip 3656k .zip file


ty


----------



## Jpmboy

@djgar okay. thanks.

Starting with the Timings#1 tab...


Cycle time -> 450, then -> 350 if stable (328 should be possible).
tRAS = CL+tRCD+tRTP. you have it set too low.
tFAW = 4x tRRD (at least). the key here is to get tRTP down to 4 if possible.
All tightening like this costs voltage. you may have to increase VDIMM to as much as 1.45V which looks to be fine for these TZ 3200c14 kits. the Ripjaws 3200c14s work the same, well of course depending on several silicon lottery wins. (ram ICs, IMC.. etc).







erm... I think you have the 3200c14s??

here's 64GB (yes - 2T). IOLs are a little lower for these.


----------



## superkyle1721

Check out asrock timing configurator. IMO it lays out the timings in a much easier and meaningful manner.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Check out asrock timing configurator. IMO it lays out the timings in a much easier and meaningful manner.


yup, I know... does not work on the R5E-10. fine for the R5E tho.
lol -


----------



## superkyle1721

I know you knew about it







I meant the guy looking for memtweakit. Posting from my phone though so I didn't realize what board he was using. Oops my bad lol CL31 at sub 1000 now that's some world class ram hahaha


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> I know you knew about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I meant the guy looking for memtweakit. Posting from my phone though so I didn't realize what board he was using. Oops my bad lol


lol - not your bad.. he's not using the r5E-10.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> @djgar okay. thanks.
> 
> Starting with the Timings#1 tab...
> 
> 
> Cycle time -> 450, then -> 350 if stable (328 should be possible).
> tRAS = CL+tRCD+tRTP. you have it set too low.
> tFAW = 4x tRRD (at least). the key here is to get tRTP down to 4 if possible.
> All tightening like this costs voltage. you may have to increase VDIMM to as much as 1.45V which looks to be fine for these TZ 3200c14 kits. the Ripjaws 3200c14s work the same, well of course depending on several silicon lottery wins. (ram ICs, IMC.. etc).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> erm... I think you have the 3200c14s??
> 
> here's 64GB (yes - 2T). IOLs are a little lower for these.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Yes, the 3200c14 Ripjaws. Thank you! I'll experiment!


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yup, I know... does not work on the R5E-10. fine for the R5E tho.
> lol -


Does Version 3.0.5 work?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> A couple of G.Skill 3600MHz CAS15 kits. Memory voltage - 1.35.
> 
> Praz---R5E10-i7 6950X @ 4.2/3.5---3400MHz-32GB-C14-14-14-36-1T----CPU 1.256V---SA 0.976V---VCCIN 1.824V---HCI 635%---GSAT 2 Hours


Thanks, nice result. Straight 14s on the kit I have here seems to topple over the limit at this frequency with reduced sub timings (within 1.5v)

Will add all results this evening


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Does Version 3.0.5 work?


yeah, tried that first... no go.








i keep checking the asrock website for an update...


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> @djgar okay. thanks.
> 
> Starting with the Timings#1 tab...
> 
> 
> Cycle time -> 450, then -> 350 if stable (328 should be possible).
> tRAS = CL+tRCD+tRTP. you have it set too low.
> tFAW = 4x tRRD (at least). the key here is to get tRTP down to 4 if possible.
> All tightening like this costs voltage. you may have to increase VDIMM to as much as 1.45V which looks to be fine for these TZ 3200c14 kits. the Ripjaws 3200c14s work the same, well of course depending on several silicon lottery wins. (ram ICs, IMC.. etc).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> erm... I think you have the 3200c14s??
> 
> here's 64GB (yes - 2T). IOLs are a little lower for these.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


OK, I got noticeable improvement from ref cycle time = 360, tFAW = 28 and tRAS=41 (tRTP is still 12 on auto). I did an 80 minute GSAT with no problems.

My question on your comment "the key here is to get tRTP down to 4 if possible" is should that happen on auto based on what the other timings male it, or should I try to manually get it stable as close to 4 as possible?

Thanks again! That was really helpful


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> OK, I got noticeable improvement from ref cycle time = 360, tFAW = 28 and tRAS=41 (tRTP is still 12 on auto). I did an 80 minute GSAT with no problems.
> 
> My question on your comment "the key here is to get tRTP down to 4 if possible" is should that happen on auto based on what the other timings male it, or should I try to manually get it stable as close to 4 as possible?
> 
> Thanks again! That was really helpful


The timings won't scale that way, no. You'll have to set it manually. If the board scaled to the minimum values on it's own, most people would struggle to pass POST stress tests


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The timings won't scale that way, no. You'll have to set it manually. If the board scaled to the minimum values on it's own, most people would struggle to pass POST stress tests


Thanks! I'll see what I can get to pass 80 min. GSAT


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> @djgar okay. thanks.
> 
> Starting with the Timings#1 tab...
> 
> 
> Cycle time -> 450, then -> 350 if stable (328 should be possible).
> tRAS = CL+tRCD+tRTP. you have it set too low.
> tFAW = 4x tRRD (at least). the key here is to get tRTP down to 4 if possible.
> All tightening like this costs voltage. you may have to increase VDIMM to as much as 1.45V which looks to be fine for these TZ 3200c14 kits. the Ripjaws 3200c14s work the same, well of course depending on several silicon lottery wins. (ram ICs, IMC.. etc).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> erm... I think you have the 3200c14s??
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The timings won't scale that way, no. You'll have to set it manually. If the board scaled to the minimum values on it's own, most people would struggle to pass POST stress tests


Thanks for all the help. OK, here's my latest based on:

330 ref cycle time
6 tRRD
4 tRTP
24 tFAW
28 tRAS (yes, not following rule but seems to render slightly better benchmark







)
This passed 80 mins. GSAT.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Thanks for all the help. OK, here's my latest based on:
> 
> 330 ref cycle time
> 6 tRRD
> 4 tRTP
> 24 tFAW
> 28 tRAS (yes, not following rule but seems to render slightly better benchmark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> This passed 80 mins. GSAT.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice!








tRAS seems to be tolerant of a -2 vs the calc min window... maybe Intel has applied an offset in the microcode?
noiw gewt in there and set the dram clock to 13, and lower the three timings I flagged below until stability or "productivity" is lost. Some kits can run these at the same value... some work best with a stagger.


----------



## KedarWolf

I'm trying my new 5960x at 4.6GHZ 1.225v, cache at 4.4GHZ at 1.2v, 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200MHZ 15-16-16-35 1T at 1.4v while I'm at work 10 hours with HCI, I think I have a really good chip.









No errors at 100% before I left.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tRAS seems to be tolerant of a -2 vs the calc min window... maybe Intel has applied an offset in the microcode?
> noiw gewt in there and set the dram clock to 13, and lower the three timings I flagged below until stability or "productivity" is lost. Some kits can run these at the same value... some work best with a stagger.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hmmm, not sure what you mean by "dram clock" ... and thanks again!

BTW, I have not been able to lower tRCD to 14 - immediate errors in GSAT even @ 1.42v, whereas current settings work at 1.38v.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I'm trying my new 5960x at 4.6GHZ 1.225v, cache at 4.4GHZ at 1.2v, 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200MHZ 15-16-16-35 1T at 1.4v while I'm at work 10 hours with HCI, I think I have a really good chip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No errors at 100% before I left.


Edit: I used 12 threads because I had it set for my 5930k instead of 16 for a 5960x. I'll run it again tomorrow while I'm at work.









Now to see if I can do 1T and/or 3200MHZ on my 8x16GB doubled sided Corsair 3000 LPX. Could only do 3000 on the 125 strap and 2T at that on my old 5960x, could do 1T 2666 though.









That'll wait until tomorrow though, is midnight here, just got home from work an hour ago and I need to get up at 6 a.m. for work tomorrow .









VCSSA a bit high at 1.2 but I think I can get it down to 1.12. I had it at that but raised it trying to lower RAM voltages do to crappy thermal paste and temps too high stress testing with RealBench and never lowered it after RAM voltages wouldn't post when lowered.










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## KedarWolf

Getting best AIDA cache and memory benchmarks I've ever had!







Not sure why write is so much slower then read and copy though.










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## H3avyM3tal

I have a 5390k with 16gb of corsair doms sitting in a x99m ws. Can't use xmp profile because it will not load win. So I did that easy 4.2 oc, and now it boots. I remember however that on my rive I used offset volts, but the easy guide here is telling me to volt it at the same value constantly. Why is that?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Getting best AIDA cache and memory benchmarks I've ever had!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why write is so much slower then read and copy though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Write times are limited by uncore


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H3avyM3tal*
> 
> I have a 5390k with 16gb of corsair doms sitting in a x99m ws. Can't use xmp profile because it will not load win. So I did that easy 4.2 oc, and now it boots. I remember however that on my rive I used offset volts, but the easy guide here is telling me to volt it at the same value constantly. Why is that?


What guide are you referring to? I'd imagine because a fixed voltage is cut and dry, but the best method in terms of establishing an overclock easily. Which is inferred in the word easy.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Write times are limited by uncore


I had tREFI so high as I found for some reason when actually gaming instead of the game crashing once in a blue moon on my 5930k I had it at that and game never crashed in two weeks. Also really helps AIDA benchmark. I did lower it to 22066 as I got one error in HCI though, seems to have fixed it.

5960x At 4.6GHZ (1.225v), cache at 4.4GHZ (1.2V), ASUS X99-A II motherboard, G.Skill 8x4GB 3000 (F4-3000C15Q2-32GRBB) at 3200MHZ 15-16-16-35 1T.

Edit: I lowered VCSSA to 1.12, had it at 1.2v.









Can you add me again, SilentScone?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## vmanuelgm

[email protected] 1.12v--vcin 1.98v--HCI 200%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Getting best AIDA cache and memory benchmarks I've ever had!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why write is so much slower then read and copy though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


That write speed delta is normal for HW-E. Same for everyone... well maybe Praz could tweak it out.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Edit: I used 12 threads because I had it set for my 5930k instead of 16 for a 5960x. I'll run it again tomorrow while I'm at work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to see if I can do 1T and/or 3200MHZ on my 8x16GB doubled sided Corsair 3000 LPX. Could only do 3000 on the 125 strap and 2T at that on my old 5960x, could do 1T 2666 though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That'll wait until tomorrow though, is midnight here, just got home from work an hour ago and I need to get up at 6 a.m. for work tomorrow .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCSSA a bit high at 1.2 but I think I can get it down to 1.12. I had it at that but raised it trying to lower RAM voltages do to crappy thermal paste and temps too high stress testing with RealBench and never lowered it after RAM voltages wouldn't post when lowered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


looking real good! As soon as my mercury SM8 case gets here, this BWE moves into the case and the R5E/5960X can get back to work...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] 1.12v--HCI 200%


That's is a really strong ram oc... if you care to:

tRRD is at 4, so tFAW can be as low as 16
If you can get tRTP down to 4, tRAS should be good at 30.
Increase tREFI to 20000 (you can do this only and see an increase in bandwidth)


----------



## H3avyM3tal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What guide are you referring to? I'd imagine because a fixed voltage is cut and dry, but the best method in terms of establishing an overclock easily. Which is inferred in the word easy.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz2VRRbLPrZnYjlVR2kzYkVvMFE/edit

This is linked in the NA thread.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H3avyM3tal*
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz2VRRbLPrZnYjlVR2kzYkVvMFE/edit
> 
> This is linked in the NA thread.


Though so, my original point still stands


----------



## H3avyM3tal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Though so, my original point still stands


I guess my real question, which I failed to ask, was should I settle for the dynamic or offset route with my overclock?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H3avyM3tal*
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz2VRRbLPrZnYjlVR2kzYkVvMFE/edit
> 
> This is linked in the NA thread.


first get the voltages you need for stability using mauual/fixed voltage, then apply this as adaptive vcore, offset cache (adaptive cache will not work), set vccin to 1.9-1.95, LLC right in the mddle (5 or 6).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H3avyM3tal*
> 
> I guess my real question, which I failed to ask, was should I settle for the dynamic or offset route with my overclock?


That's a different question entirely given the two lol. As JP has just posted, establish voltage needed whilst using a manual voltage, and then apply this to the additional turbo voltage field whilst using the adaptive setting for core. Like wise as per his post either use a manual or offset voltage for uncore


----------



## Blameless

Six hours GSAT stable (using 15GiB for the test) at what will probably be my final settings for this memory.

Lubuntu's default config apparently cannot access exFAT volumes, and the only non-exFAT volumes I had connected to my system were either full, or encrypted, so I just took a picture of the terminal window with my phone. Bandwidth figures are high because I was using six copy and twelve invert threads rather than the default of just twelve copy; custom settings appear a bit more stressful.

















I can still tighten tWR slightly, but below 10 it hurts some test as much as it helps, for whatever reason. So, I'm going to leave it.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Six hours GSAT stable (using 15GiB for the test) at what will probably be my final settings for this memory.
> 
> Lubuntu's default config apparently cannot access exFAT volumes, and the only non-exFAT volumes I had connected to my system were either full, or encrypted, so I just took a picture of the terminal window with my phone. Bandwidth figures are high because I was using six copy and twelve invert threads rather than the default of just twelve copy; custom settings appear a bit more stressful.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can still tighten tWR slightly, but below 10 it hurts some test as much as it helps, for whatever reason. So, I'm going to leave it.


lol - Mr. Overkill (6 hours GSAT).









and you broke Memtweakit Efficiency score.









edit: hey, if you are soo inclined, I've been trying to assess the impact of high refresh interval using ram disk as basically a low activity memory block... only tested at 22066 for a week, but did not loose any "fidelity". Care to try a small ram disk? Or do you know of a way to get at signal loss at these high intervals?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> That's is a really strong ram oc... if you care to:
> 
> tRRD is at 4, so tFAW can be as low as 16
> If you can get tRTP down to 4, tRAS should be good at 30.
> Increase tREFI to 20000 (you can do this only and see an increase in bandwidth)


Tried to tighten the ones you said obtaining the same results, so prefer to remain with my stable ones... Thanks for your help...


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ Solid.


----------



## H3avyM3tal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> first get the voltages you need for stability using mauual/fixed voltage, then apply this as adaptive vcore, offset cache (adaptive cache will not work), set vccin to 1.9-1.95, LLC right in the mddle (5 or 6).


Will try this at home. I fired up p95 and cpuz showed 1.289 or so volts (1.2 in bios). Temps shot to 90 (real temp app) and I 'nope'd out.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H3avyM3tal*
> 
> Will try this at home. I fired up p95 and cpuz showed 1.289 or so volts (1.2 in bios). Temps shot to 90 (real temp app) and I 'nope'd out.


lesson learned.. stay away from p95 with HWE or BWE.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - Mr. Overkill (6 hours GSAT).


and you broke Memtweakit Efficiency score.









Memtweakit detects the wrong memory clock on my setup.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> edit: hey, if you are soo inclined, I've been trying to assess the impact of high refresh interval using ram disk as basically a low activity memory block... only tested at 22066 for a week, but did not loose any "fidelity". Care to try a small ram disk? Or do you know of a way to get at signal loss at these high intervals?


I'm not sure how useful a small RAMdrive is as the average retention time of a DRAM cell is vastly higher than the retention time of the weakest portion of cells, but refresh intervals need to be set around the weakest links. Testing only a small segment of memory at a time, especially when you have no real way to control what physical addresses are being used, makes it easy to miss potentially problem areas.

Currently I use Memtest86 4.3.7's bit fade test, which repeatedly fills, sleeps, then reads the memory. The versions of this test that work on my system only have a cycle time of 5 minutes, but since the memory is refreshed at least every several dozen ms, most infrequent scenario, enough loops should still be good at detecting idle errors. Also, since the test is low load, I can shut off all of my case fans to simulate worst case scenario ambient temperatures in the vicinity of the DIMMs without causing the CPU or other components to overheat.

Load errors are more problematic. Ideally, I'd like to see a modern bootable row hammer test that takes recent discoveries into account. Newer versions of Memtest86 (vanilla) have a row hammer test, but it's not tuned for DDR4. The problem with the newer EFI versions of Memtest86 is that compatibility is poor in newer systems (including my own) and they reserve a lot more memory than the legacy tests. Why they can't have a legacy version that incorporates the new tests is beyond me.

Maybe the answer is an ultra light Linux build and a javascript rowhammer attack?

A paper I was skimming: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.06955v5 - page 16 has them successfully performing the attack on a Skylake DDR4 system.

Building a memory test is well beyond my abilities, but maybe someone could write a program to analyze a system for the most effective attack pattern, then run the patter and report the rate of flips to allow comparison at different TREFI settings. The right pattern should produce errors on almost anything, but the rate would still allow an informed decision of what trade offs to make and what interval to set.


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks for all the entries, folks. Just doing one of my own and i'll update.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks for all the entries, folks. Just doing one of my own and i'll update.


Wait! Here's my new one








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tRAS seems to be tolerant of a -2 vs the calc min window... maybe Intel has applied an offset in the microcode?
> noiw gewt in there and set the dram clock to 13, and lower the three timings I flagged below until stability or "productivity" is lost. Some kits can run these at the same value... some work best with a stagger.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hmmm, not sure what you mean by "dram clock" ... and thanks again!

Here's my last tweak ...

 

Should have added 80 minutes GSAT passed.


----------



## Blameless

Found the 90 minute bit fade test I was originally looking for; it's part of Memtest86 3.x and Memtest86+ 4.x. Running Memtest86+ 4.2 now.

Test takes three hours per loop and unlike the ten minute test in later versions, it idles the memory for 90 minutes per pattern. Only reserves 12MB of memory on my system as well, which is way less than the later versions of Memtest86/86+.

Now all I need is a good row hammer test.


----------



## H3avyM3tal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lesson learned.. stay away from p95 with HWE or BWE.


Not familiar with those, will check them out. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## CerN

Hi.

Struggeling with DDR4 OCing.

I have Corsair Dominator Platinum 3333mhz 16-18-18-36 RAM. 4x8gb dimms.

CPU: 6850K
MOBO: Rampage V10

So far, I have only been able to get them to 3200mhz, and to acheive this, I have 1,46v, +410 offset on the system Agent, and 1,2v VCCIO CPU.
Best of all, it still isn't 100% stable.

This seems pretty terrible to me. Any pointers?


----------



## Silent Scone

This is definitely all I can squeeze out of this kit personally, although I'm fairly happy with the outcome. Although might be able to drop tWCL to 11.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is definitely all I can squeeze out of this kit personally, although I'm fairly happy with the outcome. Although might be able to drop tWCL to 11.


I was always told to set tWCL to say 9 before adjusting any other secondary or tertiary timings and that this would result in better performance than the rest. I'm a noob in the OCing ram world however so take this with a grain of salt. I am curious on your opinion of this though...


----------



## Silent Scone

Write latency at 9 on that particular configuration is likely outside of the capability of the sticks


----------



## CerN

Hm... So my RAM apparantely hated the ROG Tweak "AUTO" setting, under DRAM timings. I set it to 1, and now I am currently stability-testing at 3400mhz, with lower voltage settings from before, when I couldn't even get it stable at 3200mhz.


----------



## greg1184

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Got a screen shot of what timing's you are running?
> 
> last time i tried 3200Mhz cl13 i only went up to 1.420v because i like that number
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> passed gsat for 1 hour but in HCI i got a error @ 650%
> 
> Honestly i dont think im even going to try hci this time as i couldent get gsat stable for 2 hours until i made it up to 1.45vdimm, i think that should be enough.


I'm running default timings unfortunately. Tried to go 1.44 and I get error on HCI memtest.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> I'm running default timings unfortunately. Tried to go 1.44 and I get error on HCI memtest.


Try your primary's at 13-13-13-1T , TWR=10 , TRRD=4 , TCWL=9, TFAW=16 with every thing else on auto. Start there, if you can pass that then start tightening the one's left on auto.

........Or start with cl13-13-13-1t and every thing else on auto. once you pass then move on to the above.









my memory overclock has taken me months of slowly lowering timings and testing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> and you broke Memtweakit Efficiency score.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memtweakit detects the wrong memory clock on my setup.
> I'm not sure how useful a small RAMdrive is as the average retention time of a DRAM cell is vastly higher than the retention time of the weakest portion of cells, but refresh intervals need to be set around the weakest links. Testing only a small segment of memory at a time, especially when you have no real way to control what physical addresses are being used, makes it easy to miss potentially problem areas.
> 
> Currently I use Memtest86 4.3.7's bit fade test, which repeatedly fills, sleeps, then reads the memory. The versions of this test that work on my system only have a cycle time of 5 minutes, but since the memory is refreshed at least every several dozen ms, most infrequent scenario, enough loops should still be good at detecting idle errors. Also, since the test is low load, I can shut off all of my case fans to simulate worst case scenario ambient temperatures in the vicinity of the DIMMs without causing the CPU or other components to overheat.
> 
> Load errors are more problematic. Ideally, I'd like to see a modern bootable row hammer test that takes recent discoveries into account. Newer versions of Memtest86 (vanilla) have a row hammer test, but it's not tuned for DDR4. The problem with the newer EFI versions of Memtest86 is that compatibility is poor in newer systems (including my own) and they reserve a lot more memory than the legacy tests. Why they can't have a legacy version that incorporates the new tests is beyond me.
> 
> Maybe the answer is an ultra light Linux build and a javascript rowhammer attack?
> 
> A paper I was skimming: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.06955v5 - page 16 has them successfully performing the attack on a Skylake DDR4 system.
> 
> Building a memory test is well beyond my abilities, but maybe someone could write a program to analyze a system for the most effective attack pattern, then run the patter and report the rate of flips to allow comparison at different TREFI settings. The right pattern should produce errors on almost anything, but the rate would still allow an informed decision of what trade offs to make and what interval to set.


thanks for the link... we've been told that putting your PC to sleep can also reveal signal loss over time. Just poking around to see if there is a "simple" way to get at this issue. Apparently there is not.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Wait! Here's my new one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, not sure what you mean by "dram clock" ... and thanks again!
> Here's my last tweak ...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should have added 80 minutes GSAT passed.


so in the ram timings menu (rog boards for sure) down where "Eventual Dram Voltage" can be entered, there should be a field for Dram Clock Period. Auto is fine... ROG presets use 13 on x99 and 24 on z170.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H3avyM3tal*
> 
> Not familiar with those, will check them out. Thanks for the heads up.


haswell-e and broadwell-e. no reason to use p95 on these cpus (really). x264, realbench, HCi memtest etc are much better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is definitely all I can squeeze out of this kit personally, although I'm fairly happy with the outcome. Although might be able to drop tWCL to 11.


Tight!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Try your primary's at 13-13-13-1T , TWR=10 , TRRD=4 , TCWL=9, TFAW=16 with every thing else on auto. Start there, if you can pass that then start tightening the one's left on auto.


What I do is set everything on Auto in timings with XMP enabled and the timings at what I know work, for me, 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200MHZ , 15-16-16-35 1T. Then I set tRTP to 5, tFAW 20, DRAM Refresh Interval (tREFI) to 22066, and DRAM Ref Cycle Time (tRFC) at 279,everything else left on Auto, these I know work for me. Make sure you figured out optimal memory voltages and SA voltages etc. as well.

I then put the RAM speed in BIOS at 2400 instead of 3200, reboot, set the secondary timings as they show on XMP manually, just the first main page of timings in the BIOS like I'm showing in MemTweakIt in one of the Spoiler pictures. Put RAM speed back to 3200, boot into Windows, run HCI MemTest or GSAT if you want. If stable, great, keep settings, if not do same thing with lower RAM speed up one notch, then reset the timings manually again, or if your stable try one notch lower and see if you're still stable.









I get really great benchmarks this way having the tightest secondary timings I can get away with.









I do have a really great CPU however which helps a ton.









Edit: You might also want to manually set like the picture below below before lowering memory speed in BIOS to 5-5-5-1, on XMP they may be too low when you manually set it and go back to the higher speed and PC won't boot.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> What I do is set everything on Auto in timings with XMP enabled and the timings at what I know work, for me, 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200MHZ , 15-16-16-35 1T. Then I set tRTP to 5, tFAW 20, DRAM Refresh Interval (tREFI) to 22066, and DRAM Ref Cycle Time (tRFC) at 279,everything else left on Auto, these I know work for me. Make sure you figured out optimal memory voltages and SA voltages etc. as well.
> 
> I then put the RAM speed in BIOS at 2400 instead of 3200, reboot, set the secondary timings as they show on XMP manually, just the first main page of timings in the BIOS like I'm showing in MemTweakIt in one of the Spoiler pictures. Put RAM speed back to 3200, boot into Windows, run HCI MemTest or GSAT if you want. If stable, great, keep settings, if not do same thing with lower RAM speed up one notch, then reset the timings manually again, or if your stable try one notch lower and see if you're still stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I get really great benchmarks this way having the tightest secondary timings I can get away with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a really great CPU however which helps a ton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: You might also want to manually set like the picture below below before lowering memory speed in BIOS to 5-5-5-1, on XMP they may be too low when you manually set it and go back to the higher speed and PC won't boot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


What are your RTL timings? Doing it through this work flow seems like they will really be thrown off.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> What are your RTL timings? Doing it through this work flow seems like they will really be thrown off.


I don't manually set RTL, leave it on XMP on Auto, just main sub timings I change.









Edit:

Manually set these at the XMP 2400 settings on reboot in BIOS except what I already mentioned I set manually beforehand.



These below I don't change. Leave them on Auto in BIOS.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I don't manually set RTL, leave it on XMP, just main sub timings.


Hello

You are manually setting CL and leaving tWCL set to auto correct? If so as RTL/IOL are mainly influenced by CL and tWCL I don't see any issue here.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> You are manually setting CL and leaving tWCL set to auto correct? If so as RTL/IOL are mainly influenced by CL and tWCL I don't see any issue here.


Ah thanks for the clarification on this. I was under the impression RTL was altered by CL and or clock speed. Apologies...carry on!!


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Ah thanks for the clarification on this. I was under the impression RTL was altered by CL and or clock speed. Apologies...carry on!!


Hello

@KedarWolf is manually setting CL as well as the desired memory speed. tWCL is on auto which will scale with the manually set CL value. The RTL and IOL values will be set based on these values not the remaining settings being input manually.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> You are manually setting CL and leaving tWCL set to auto correct? If so as RTL/IOL are mainly influenced by CL and tWCL I don't see any issue here.


I manually set these minus what I said I manually set before booting into 2400 XMP.

RTL IO Control and IO Control I don't manually set.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!










This is my benchmark.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> @KedarWolf is manually setting CL as well as the desired memory speed. tWCL is on auto which will scale with the manually set CL value. The RTL and IOL values will be set based on these values not the remaining settings being input manually.


Not sure in BIOS what tWCL is but if it's DRAM Write Latency I put it on 14, the XMP 2400 setting. In MemTweakIt it's CAS# Write Latency.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Not sure in BIOS what tWCL is but if it's DRAM Write Latency I put it on 14, the XMP 2400 setting. In MemTweakIt it's CAS# Write Latency.


when you highlight a field in the ram bios page, the abbreviation will appear at the bottom. I'd bet that if you set tWCL to auto, it would be 14 anyway...


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Not sure in BIOS what tWCL is but if it's DRAM Write Latency I put it on 14, the XMP 2400 setting. In MemTweakIt it's CAS# Write Latency.


Hello

Should try to keep tWCL at least one lower than CL.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Should try to keep tWCL at least one lower than CL.


On my motherboard the highlight says tWL. And it is 14 on Auto. Won't boot at 13 though.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Tight!


Thank you (for that wonderful image







)


----------



## vmanuelgm

Hi Scone.

Forgot vcin, 1.98v.

Also the uncore is 4.25, not 4.2...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Hi Scone.
> 
> Forgot vcin, 1.98v.
> 
> Also the uncore is 4.25, not 4.2...


Thanks, Scorchio - will update


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thank you (for that wonderful image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


gonna take a couple of pints to flush that picture from one's mind.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> gonna take a couple of pints to flush that picture from one's mind.


Certainly a stretch from your Avatart


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Certainly a stretch from your Avatart


Come on guys, enough with the animesity


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> I was under the impression RTL was altered by CL and or clock speed.


It is.

RTL is related to CL, tWCL, uncore clock, and IOL. You can force it to be tighter than it otherwise would be at a given clock and CL/tWCL by tightening the IOLs.

If I leave my IOLs at AUTO they default to 8 with my current settings, which makes my RTLs 49. However, with some more VCCSA and some VL adjustments, I can go as low as four, all other things being identical, which gives me RTLs of 45...and a fair memory performance boost.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Not sure in BIOS what tWCL is but if it's DRAM Write Latency I put it on 14


That's tWCL.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> On my motherboard the highlight says tWL. And it is 14 on Auto. Won't boot at 13 though.


The minimum tWCL/tWL/CAS write latency/whatever you can get away with usually gets closer to your CL as you scale up in frequency. Can vary with ICs used though.

With my lower clocked Micron chips I usually run CL - 3 for tWCL.


----------



## djgar

Here's my latest 6900K tweak, I think I'll leave it here until the next BIOS comes up ...

 


The 21 tRAS looks absurd based on basic rules but does seem to make some small difference. Although I was able to get tWR and tCKE manually down quite a bit, I could not budge tWCL even one down from the auto set 14 without immediate bluescreen even @ 1.42v. Everything else I have running now @ 1.38v eventual with an 80 minute GSAT pass and 2.5 hours RealBench stress.


----------



## djgar

Oops - forgot this guy ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Oops - forgot this guy ...


one for you too>>>
Tight!


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> one for you too>>>
> Tight!


That's gonna leave a (mental) mark


----------



## Kimir

Can't you run the ram at 3400 since you have a 6900K now?
I'd try 4600 core 3800 cache 3400 ram if I were you.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Can't you run the ram at 3400 since you have a 6900K now?
> I'd try 4600 core 3800 cache 3400 ram if I were you.


Believe me I have tried but I was still getting some GSAT errors at 3400 14-15-15-CR2 @ 1.42v eventual, so it wasn't worth it and if I got that speed working I don't think it would be faster than the 3370 14-15-14-CR1 I have at 1.38v. I'm doing 3790GHz cache so that's pretty close to 3800







. I don't think 4600GHz is feasible with my processor at least ATM. I'm waiting for some BIOS improvements since the current one is still pretty BW-E green.


----------



## jdallara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Oops - forgot this guy ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one for you too>>>
> Tight!
Click to expand...

Do you realize the amount of therapy I'm going to need since I just saw that?


----------



## Jpmboy

an indelible dent in my neurons.


----------



## Silent Scone

What do you get if you cross the Michelin man with a banana.


----------



## Jpmboy

lol - on a whim I dropped CAS to 13 and it's looking good ~ 50% HCi... I need to remove hte 1080 and put the TXs back in to run GSAT (and load the new 1080 compatible linux driver







)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - on a whim I dropped CAS to 13 and it's looking good ~ 50% HCi... I need to remove hte 1080 and put the TXs back in to run GSAT (and load the new 1080 compatible linux driver
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Nice! Hope the 6950 is a good one, should be coming tomorrow.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice! Hope the 6950 is a good one, should be coming tomorrow.


may the silicon gods smile upon you bro.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdallara*
> 
> Do you realize the amount of therapy I'm going to need since I just saw that?


Just send him the bills








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What do you get if you cross the Michelin man with a banana.


Good one!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - on a whim I dropped CAS to 13 and it's looking good ~ 50% HCi... I need to remove hte 1080 and put the TXs back in to run GSAT (and load the new 1080 compatible linux driver
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Sometimes I really dislike you







OK, maybe it's time to cook these RJVs ...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> one for you too>>>
> Tight!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Just send him the bills
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes I really dislike you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, maybe it's time to cook these RJVs ...


On my 128GB Corsair LPX can only do 2666 on the 100 strap, couldn't get 3200 to boot. But i do have it HCI MemTest stable at 12-12-12-31 1T so that helps.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> On my 128GB Corsair LPX can only do 2666 on the 100 strap, couldn't get 3200 to boot. But i do have it HCI MemTest stable at 12-12-12-31 1T so that helps.


What DIMMs are you using?

EDIT: OK, I see there's only one set 2666 128GB. Thanks!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> What DIMMs are you using?
> 
> EDIT: OK, I see there's only one set 2666 128GB. Thanks!


http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance-lpx-128gb-8x16gb-ddr4-dram-3000mhz-c16-memory-kit-black-cmk128gx4m8b3000c16

It's 3000MHZ LPX. But won't run at 3200. The trouble with double sided RAM.









Edit: I can run it at 3000MHZ on the 125 strap but at 2T but can only do 4.625 GHZ CPU instead of 4.7 on the 100 strap. Trade off isn't worth it with the timings I'm getting at 2666. This CPU just does better on 100 strap the 125 strap it seems, opposite of my 5930k.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Just send him the bills
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sometimes I really dislike you*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, maybe it's time to cook these RJVs ...


oh man... I'm not scoring points with this...

*New entry:*

jpmboy -- [email protected] --- 64GB 3200c14 TZs @ 3400c13-14-14-30-2T. VSA 1.065V, vDIMM 1.45V 300% HCI Memtest (gsat someday...)


(hate spreading out 20 instances.










..don;t say it! yeah - 2T. 1T is not happening with this 64GB kit.


----------



## stargate125645

For anyone wondering, increasing my VCCSA to 1.05V allowed me to put my cache back up to 4.375GHz with 3333MHz RAM at 1.2V. Core is 4.625GHz at 1.260V (it seems the temperature increase from the cache frequency and voltage jump required me to move my core voltage higher?). I'm working on getting my RAM timings down now (primary only; I don't have the patience for more than that), but I was going on 14-15-14-34-1T 3333MHz at 1.35V RealBench (1.5 hrs) and Aida64 (2.5 hrs on cache) stable. Unfortunately, my load temperatures were in the mid-80s due to the high ambient temperature, so I'm not sure I want to push core higher even though I would appear to have voltage headroom.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm working on getting my RAM timings down now (primary only; I don't have the patience for more than that), but I was going on 14-15-14-34-1T 3333MHz at 1.35V RealBench (1.5 hrs) and Aida64 (2.5 hrs on cache) stable.


Hello

Need GSAT or HCI for memory testing.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm working on getting my RAM timings down now (primary only; I don't have the patience for more than that), but I was going on 14-15-14-34-1T 3333MHz at 1.35V RealBench (1.5 hrs) and Aida64 (2.5 hrs on cache) stable.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> Need GSAT or HCI for memory testing.
Click to expand...

I'm not looking to get posted on the front page; only looking for guidance. In this case, I was following on my results with guidance offered previously.


----------



## sherlock

Grabbed a pair of EVGA DDR4-3000 C15 SSC 2X8GB RAM at microcenter because I needed something to boot the 6700K+M8Ranger setup I picked up there. XMP doesn't work on latest bios(error code 55= no ram detected), so I will stay with those on 2133 C15 until the TridentZ 3400C16 I ordered comes in.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Grabbed a pair of EVGA DDR4-3000 C15 SSC 2X8GB RAM because I needed something to boot the 6700K+M8Ranger setup I was picking up there. XMP doesn't work on latest bios(error code 55= no ram detected), so I will stay with those on 2133 C15 until my order of TridentZ 3400C16 comes in.


after loading XMP, increase VSA to at least 1.25 and VCCIO to 1.225V.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> after loading XMP, increase VSA to at least 1.25 and VCCIO to 1.225V.


Thanks for the tip, maybe I will have time to try tomorrow.


----------



## stargate125645

I'm getting a little confused. I've got AIDA64 telling me 13-15-12-26-1T is at least mostly stable at 1.45V and 3333MHz. (I get no errors, anyway. I realize other software may prove more stressful, but that's not the point of my post. I'll use such software in due time.) I've reached the bottoms for the first three timings but not yet for tRAS. I guess previous rules of thumb about tRAS being the sum of other timings doesn't apply anymore, but how low should I expect it to go? Also, I got the 1.45V limit from posts on this thread. Should I worry about using that voltage 24/7? The sticks in my signature are what I'm currently overclocking.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm not looking to get posted on the front page; only looking for guidance. In this case, I was following on my results with guidance offered previously.


Hello

Front page? I thought you were testing for ram stability.


----------



## Silent Scone

This ^

These are honestly the only two memory stress tests worth while currently. If not checking for errors with these, you may as well be peeing in the wind.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Guys I have the dominator platinum c15 3200 4x8g v4.24

Does anyone know if it is samsung? And what samsung ic is it


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Guys I have the dominator platinum c15 3200 4x8g v4.24
> 
> Does anyone know if it is samsung? And what samsung ic is it


Run AIDA64 Extreme, under 'Motherboard' 'SPD' it'll say what it is.


----------



## Jpmboy

lol - was looking at the data in the OP Table... and just noticed this... Nice:


(okay - so I'm not up on events)

But Wut? you "running with scissors"??


----------



## Silent Scone

lol, was just seeing if I could get it stable! Better sticks would do it with less, but I was stuck with probably the least preferable 3866+ kit on the market from back when Z170 launched


----------



## Jpmboy

you're gonna like that 6950X. 10 cores just lights things up.


----------



## superkyle1721

Just received the 3600c15 kit. First impressions say the secondaries are looooose haha. Having an issue getting it to run 1T. Needed 1.2vccio and 1.2SA while running 1.5V dram. Seems a bit high on dram just to use 1T. If I increase SA to 1.25 do you guys think I can back down on the dram voltage? Also is there a point in playing with boot voltages or eventual voltages on z170 or just use VCCIO, dram and SA?


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm not looking to get posted on the front page; only looking for guidance. In this case, I was following on my results with guidance offered previously.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> Front page? I thought you were testing for ram stability.
Click to expand...

OK, your post was vague so I wasn't sure to what you were referring.

So, to answer my other post, I can get away with lots of tight timings on AIDA64 for 5 hours, but if I run HCI MemTest (it is such a pain to close down and start up again when you tweak settings, so I dread its use), my timings will return to what I would expect (i.e. looser).


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> [...] if I run HCI MemTest [...] my timings will return to what I would expect (i.e. looser).


That doesn't quite make sense, you mean if you run HCI, the test will fail with the tight timings used on Aida? That wouldn't surprise me, Aida is not what one should use to check RAM stability.


----------



## djgar

After an excursion into 1.45v dimm territory, I finally was able to get a stable 3418 14-15-14-CR1 in adaptive (14-14-14 still a no-go with several GSAT errors. The problem is that it comes with lower cpu & uncore speed, so my previous 125 strap sitch was slightly better in AIDA benchmarks (I do multiple runs to analyze since they do vary instance to instance).

But I figured I might as well and see how far I could stretch that. 3400+ was no good, but I stretched the just-below-3400 to 3386 14-15-14-21-CR1 @ 80min GSAT, with 4571GHz cpu & 3810 uncore @ 4hr RealBench (I killed it - I needed sleep). In order to get that I had to crank up the vcore to 1.38v (it was often below that) with a .295 offset; dimms a moderate 1.39v eventual.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> [...] if I run HCI MemTest [...] my timings will return to what I would expect (i.e. looser).
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't quite make sense, you mean if you run HCI, the test will fail with the tight timings used on Aida? That wouldn't surprise me, Aida is not what one should use to check RAM stability.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I meant, though given I did not receive an error in AIDA64 in 5 hours of straight testing focused on the memory I wonder if it would be stable for games. MemTest is just a pain because of all the windows, and having to reset them if you get an error and need to tweak timings. I figured there wouldn't be much of a difference between the two, so I could focus on AIDA to get close to the final numbers, but it appears as though MemTest and AIDA are worlds apart from my preliminary runs with MemTest.

I have 14-14-14-34-1T 3200MHz vs. 17-18-18-36-1T 3333MHz it would seem at this point. Those latter timings are auto for 3333MHz, so I will hopefully be able to get down to 16-16-16-36 or so, but I'm not holding my breath. I imagine the 3200MHz speed would be faster with those tighter timings, right? Regarding the voltage I asked about earlier, should I be concerned about 1.45V constant use for this RAM (G.Skill F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ)?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That is exactly what I meant, though given I did not receive an error in AIDA64 in 5 hours of straight testing focused on the memory I wonder if it would be stable for games. MemTest is just a pain because of all the windows, and having to reset them if you get an error and need to tweak timings. I figured there wouldn't be much of a difference between the two, so I could focus on AIDA to get close to the final numbers, but it appears as though MemTest and AIDA are worlds apart from my preliminary runs with MemTest.
> 
> I have 14-14-14-34-1T 3200MHz vs. 17-18-18-36-1T 3333MHz it would seem at this point. Those latter timings are auto for 3333MHz, so I will hopefully be able to get down to 16-16-16-36 or so, but I'm not holding my breath. I imagine the 3200MHz speed would be faster with those tighter timings, right? Regarding the voltage I asked about earlier, should I be concerned about 1.45V constant use for this RAM (G.Skill F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ)?


Nowhere in the OP does it say "HCI and establishing stability is barrels of fun, bring your children"







.

HCI with an instance per thread running is a stringent test of stability, but a realistic one also. AIDAs memory routines are not in the same league as you have discovered yourself


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That is exactly what I meant, though given I did not receive an error in AIDA64 in 5 hours of straight testing focused on the memory I wonder if it would be stable for games. MemTest is just a pain because of all the windows, and having to reset them if you get an error and need to tweak timings. I figured there wouldn't be much of a difference between the two, so I could focus on AIDA to get close to the final numbers, but it appears as though MemTest and AIDA are worlds apart from my preliminary runs with MemTest.
> 
> I have 14-14-14-34-1T 3200MHz vs. 17-18-18-36-1T 3333MHz it would seem at this point. Those latter timings are auto for 3333MHz, so I will hopefully be able to get down to 16-16-16-36 or so, but I'm not holding my breath. I imagine the 3200MHz speed would be faster with those tighter timings, right? Regarding the voltage I asked about earlier, should I be concerned about 1.45V constant use for this RAM (G.Skill F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ)?
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere in the OP does it say "HCI and establishing stability is barrels of fun, bring your children"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> HCI with an instance per thread running is a stringent test of stability, but a realistic one also. AIDAs memory routines are not in the same league as you have discovered yourself
Click to expand...

Any thoughts on my questions?

Also, it takes more than 1 instance per thread to fill 32GB to at least 95%...


----------



## Silent Scone

Yes, this is where Google Stress App comes in, which is even more stringent. This is what I'd recommend.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, this is where Google Stress App comes in, which is even more stringent. This is what I'd recommend.


More stringent and much easier (once you set up Linux) ...


----------



## Kimir

1.45v is fine for daily, I wouldn't bother with 3333Mhz, on HW-E, 3200 is the sweet spot, after that it's more the IMC that will be the limiting factor. Just get 3200 and tight timings to work,
I don't know if the Sabertooth has RAM profile, but you can work with what I and others (JPM, scone...) posted and use it as reference/starting point.
Like this (this is as tight as I can get GSAT stable)

Depending on you IMC and the RAM, 13-13-13 can be achieved, it used to work for me at one point, but not anymore, sadly.









And yes, *definitively use GSAT* when testing more than 8GB, it saves tons of time.

And you never know, I wasn't into linux before, but when I'm not gaming, I use mint (17.2) most of the time now.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> 1.45v is fine for daily, I wouldn't bother with 3333Mhz, on HW-E, 3200 is the sweet spot, after that it's more the IMC that will be the limiting factor. Just get 3200 and tight timings to work,
> I don't know if the Sabertooth has RAM profile, but you can work with what I and others (JPM, scone...) posted and use it as reference/starting point.
> Like this (this is as tight as I can get GSAT stable)
> 
> Depending on you IMC and the RAM, 13-13-13 can be achieved, it used to work for me at one point, but not anymore, sadly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, *definitively use GSAT* when testing more than 8GB, it saves tons of time.
> 
> And you never know, I wasn't into linux before, but when I'm not gaming, I use mint (17.2) most of the time now.


Thank you for answering the questions!

I figured installing Linux to get GSAT to work would take longer than just messing with the windows on MemTest. Do I not need to bother making a separate partition for Linux...? My experience with Linux and Unix was always logging into remote machines whose main OS was Linux or Unix for the purposes of programming software.


----------



## Kimir

If you don't have the memory preset like us with the rampage board, here are the timings I started with when loading the "4x8GB Samsung 1.65v 3200" - except the primary timings, set manually-
I have the memory voltage set to 1.38v in bios, but you can start of with 1.4v and those timings.


I didn't bother making a different partition for Linux here, I had spare SSDs so I used that, saved me from any hassle (unplugged all other SSDs, plugged the USB key with Mint, installed it and GSAT, ready to go).
If you have an old HDD, that will do as well.


----------



## stargate125645

So you're in Windows and Linux at the same time?


----------



## Silent Scone

No...

Kimir, is that photo your Mrs? If so, nice work.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So you're in Windows and Linux at the same time?


You can only boot on one OS you know.








But yeah, I have an SSD with W7, another with W10 (and one 8.1 that I don't use anymore, might wipe it soon) and another one with Linux. I have W10 set as first in the bios, I hit F8 on startup and choose Linux if I want to boot on it instead of W10 ((or change the order in the bios if I'm going to use one or the other for a longer period).
However, I played with virtualbox in Linux the other day, it doesn't recognize the OC and other things, but that's another story.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So you're in Windows and Linux at the same time?
> 
> 
> 
> You can only boot on one OS you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, I have an SSD with W7, another with W10 (and one 8.1 that I don't use anymore, might wipe it soon) and another one with Linux. I have W10 set as first in the bios, I hit F8 on startup and choose Linux if I want to boot on it instead of W10 ((or change the order in the bios if I'm going to use one or the other for a longer period).
> However, I played with virtualbox in Linux the other day, it doesn't recognize the OC and other things, but that's another story.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know, which is why what you were suggesting confused me. I don't see how utilizing GSAT saves any time since you aren't able to manipulate memory timings on the fly like you can with MemTweakIt while using MemTest in Windows. Unless there is something similar to MemTweakIt for Linux?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Yeah, I know, which is why what you were suggesting confused me. I don't see how utilizing GSAT saves any time since you aren't able to manipulate memory timings on the fly like you can with MemTweakIt while using MemTest in Windows. Unless there is something similar to MemTweakIt for Linux?


I would advise you change these timings in the UEFI regardless of what OS you are using


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I would advise you change these timings in the UEFI regardless of what OS you are using


Exactly that, you want the training that is done during POST to be done before running any kind of memory stability test anyway.


----------



## Praz

Hello

Unless one explicitly understands what the various timings do and how they may relate to one another as well as pre and post boot constraints it is best to leave the operating system based timing utilities for benchmarking.


----------



## Silent Scone

GSAT seems to have stopped displaying time passed between power spikes on this run i'm currently on. Not seen it do that before...no errors detected, though.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> GSAT seems to have stopped displaying time passed between power spikes on this run i'm currently on. Not seen it do that before...no errors detected, though.


Hello

Run GSAT with power spiking disabled if it is hanging.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Unless one explicitly understands what the various timings do and how they may relate to one another as well as pre and post boot constraints it is best to leave the operating system based timing utilities for benchmarking.


I only intend to change the primary timings. I don't have the free time available to mess with every subtiming. But it still saves a significant amount of time to change by a clock cycle a single timing to see if it's worth going into the BIOS to set.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I only intend to change the primary timings. I don't have the free time available to mess with every subtiming. But it still saves a significant amount of time to change by a clock cycle a single timing to see if it's worth going into the BIOS to set.


Hello

Good luck.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Run GSAT with power spiking disabled if it is hanging.


First time i've noticed it. Definitely seems to be having a problem resuming. Will change the pause delay. The test still completed successfully.

Lol, @stargate125645 all you have done since coming here is express what a chore these things are.


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Unless one explicitly understands what the various timings do and how they may relate to one another as well as pre and post boot constraints it is best to leave the operating system based timing utilities for benchmarking.


Do you know any good resources for learning this? I tried looking into the DDR4 specification but that seemed a little too manufacturing oriented for what I was looking to learn.(DDR4-CPU interface/how memory timings affect data throughput ect. )


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> First time i've noticed it. Definitely seems to be having a problem resuming. Will change the pause delay. The test still completed successfully


Hello

Add the following argument without the quotes. Set xxxx to a number of seconds greater than the length of the test.

"--pause_delay xxxx"


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> GSAT seems to have stopped displaying time passed between power spikes on this run i'm currently on. Not seen it do that before...no errors detected, though.


does the same here, unless you...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> Add the following argument without the quotes. Set xxxx to a number of seconds greater than the length of the test.
> "--pause_delay xxxx"


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah, I'd read on the forums before - just hadn't noticed it hang till now. Cheers Ears


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Run GSAT with power spiking disabled if it is hanging.
> 
> 
> 
> First time i've noticed it. Definitely seems to be having a problem resuming. Will change the pause delay. The test still completed successfully.
> 
> Lol, @stargate125645 all you have done since coming here is express what a chore these things are.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I'll be sure to work less from now on and spend more time on things like computers than friends and family.









I'd much rather have enough time to mess around with these things in more depth, but my life isn't situated that way. I have to make the most of what time I can devote to something like this, which means you do what will make the most difference. Ergo, primary timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yeah, I'd read on the forums before - just hadn't noticed it hang till now. Cheers Ears


Missed entry? http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2040_20#post_25356335
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm sorry, I'll be sure to work less from now on and spend more time on things like computers than friends and family.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm sorry, I'll be sure to work less from now on and spend more time on things like computers than friends and family.


Better still spend less time asking for advice only to not listen to it. I hope for your friends, familes and colleagues sake you don't follow the same mindset.

"That'll do", he sighed as the veranda collapsed.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yeah, I'd read on the forums before - just hadn't noticed it hang till now. Cheers Ears
> 
> 
> 
> Missed entry? http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2040_20#post_25356335
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm sorry, I'll be sure to work less from now on and spend more time on things like computers than friends and family.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I edited my post. While his post was not exactly friendly, mine came out meaner than I wanted. My apologies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I'm sorry, I'll be sure to work less from now on and spend more time on things like computers than friends and family.
> 
> 
> 
> Better still spend less time asking for advice only to not listen to it. I hope for your friends, familes and colleagues sake you don't follow the same mindset.
> 
> "That'll do", he sighed as the veranda collapsed.
Click to expand...

First, my apologies. My post came out meaner than I wanted, and has been edited to reflect this fact. Still, in fairness, you're not really one to answer questions directly anyway since I've been lurking here, so it's a bit ironic for you to be complaining about something like this - especially when I made my intentions perfectly clear from the start with what I wanted to change and didn't due to patience and time commitments elsewhere. I'm sorry you're disappointed, but let's not put words in my mouth.


----------



## Silent Scone

Sorry, I sometimes forget to add smiley faces when replying with facts









X

Your problem is you are looking for a solution that fits you rather than the right one. Perhaps that's why you lurk rather than do. As Praz has said, good luck with that attitude.


----------



## stargate125645

Sigh. If a strawman or hyperbole is fact to you, then we're done. I'm truly sorry to have upset you.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Sigh. If a strawman or hyperbole is fact to you, then we're done. I'm truly sorry to have upset you.


I'm probably about as upset as your memory is stable


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Do you know any good resources for learning this? I tried looking into the DDR4 specification but that seemed a little too manufacturing oriented for what I was looking to learn.(DDR4-CPU interface/how memory timings affect data throughput ect. )


Hello

The available JEDEC papers are a good start. From there the various write-ups from memory manufacturers.


----------



## greg1184

Dumb noob question: what are the differences between increasing the memory frequency and tightening the timings? Which one is "better"? I increase my memory Frequency and I just got an endless loop without posting.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Sigh. If a strawman or hyperbole is fact to you, then we're done. I'm truly sorry to have upset you.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably about as upset as your memory is stable
Click to expand...

That would be pretty darned upset then since I used HCI MemTest as I noted in a previous post, with timings that were set in the BIOS. Since you're interested in facts and all...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> Dumb noob question: what are the differences between increasing the memory frequency and tightening the timings? Which one is "better"? I increase my memory Frequency and I just got an endless loop without posting.


The no POST is due to failing memory training. If raising frequency it's likely you'll need to increase latency / voltage or both if this is what is happening.


----------



## Silent Scone

Dp


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That would be pretty darned upset then since I used HCI MemTest as I noted in a previous post, with timings that were set in the BIOS. Since you're interested in facts and all...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Yeah, I know, which is why what you were suggesting confused me. I don't see how utilizing GSAT saves any time since you aren't able to manipulate memory timings on the fly like you can with MemTweakIt while using MemTest in Windows. Unless there is something similar to MemTweakIt for Linux?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I only intend to change the primary timings. I don't have the free time available to mess with every subtiming. But it still saves a significant amount of time to change by a clock cycle a single timing to see if it's worth going into the BIOS to set.


Glad to see you've listened regardless of these posts then. All the best.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> GSAT seems to have stopped displaying time passed between power spikes on this run i'm currently on. Not seen it do that before...no errors detected, though.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Run GSAT with power spiking disabled if it is hanging.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> does the same here, unless you...


Me three - not hanging but with gaps in the log entries after the spike but no hardware errors, and the timing of displayed messages is correct AFAICT. Thanks for the explanations.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The no POST is due to failing memory training. If raising frequency it's likely you'll need to increase latency / voltage or both if this is what is happening.


Or just reached the limit of what the IMC is capable of. Then it's time to go back to the one memory frequency that could post and work on the timings/voltage.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'm probably about as upset as your memory is stable


Jesus christ, that one just killed me LOL


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Missed entry? http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2040_20#post_25356335


Thanks, will add tonight


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> If you don't have the memory preset like us with the rampage board, here are the timings I started with when loading the "4x8GB Samsung 1.65v 3200" - except the primary timings, set manually-
> I have the memory voltage set to 1.38v in bios, but you can start of with 1.4v and those timings.
> 
> 
> I didn't bother making a different partition for Linux here, I had spare SSDs so I used that, saved me from any hassle (unplugged all other SSDs, plugged the USB key with Mint, installed it and GSAT, ready to go).
> If you have an old HDD, that will do as well.


So, for shiggles I entered those timings but with 1.42V (higher than you suggested), but I received a butt load of errors. I then realized that while I had tested the RAM at 3333MHz with the 17-18-18 timings with MemTest, I never verified the RAM at stock settings.

I set everything to Auto, except the primary timings to 14-14-14-34-1T with the 3200MHz settings (4.6 core, 4.4 cache), and I got errors in MemTest. I lowered my cache clock from 4.4GHz to 4.1GHz thinking it might be the high cache frequency hurting the RAM timings, but I still got errors. As those are stock settings for my RAM, does that mean they are defective and that I should get a replacement set from G.Skill? The CPU is totally stable at both of those settings in AIDA64 and RealBench in terms of stressing the cache and core.


----------



## vibraslap

I'm pretty sure stock timings at 3200Mhz are 14-14-14-34-2T(Thats stock on my 64gb kit), try that at 1.35V and your memory should be stable.


----------



## Kimir

Indeed it's 2T at stock, but you have to get your VSA tuned properly to not get errors at XMP too.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I'm pretty sure stock timings at 3200Mhz are 14-14-14-34-2T(Thats stock on my 64gb kit), try that at 1.35V and your memory should be stable.


I'm going to be thoroughly disappointed in myself if that's the problem given how much time I wasted last night. I could have sworn that 1T was the stock setting, but apparently not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Indeed it's 2T at stock, but you have to get your VSA tuned properly to not get errors at XMP too.


Does 1T vs. 2T make much of a difference in performance? Everything I look up goes back to the DDR2 days so it's hard to gauge. I see the settings you had me use have 1T, so my DIMMs must be crappy in comparison if they can't even run 1T at stock settings whereas yours are doing 1T with a CL of 13.

Edit: Also, my VCCSA is set to +0.220V now, unlike previously where it was stock, so it should be 1.06V once booted.


----------



## Silent Scone

Large majority of kits on the market are binned at 2T, as per what is specified on the serial label and packaging


----------



## stargate125645

Well since my kit is apparently crappy compared to most of yours, did I just get a bad draw? That is, do you guys buy a lot of kits and effectively bin them and keep the best, such that you all have sets that can run 1T with tight timings? I still can't find any information on 1T vs. 2T (for DDR4) so I don't know if it actually matters, but it is disappointing to have RAM that won't do 1T regardless.

Edit: I see benchmarks showing the effect if DDR4 speed, where these authors are using 1T timings but on Skylake. Perhaps Skylake plays better with tighter timings since the memory bandwidth is so much less due to being dual channel? Or do they just not test their RAM with MemTest so it's probably not stable if they did? For example, see this review:
http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-memory-scaling-intel-z170-finding-the-best-ddr4-memory-kit-speed_170340/2


----------



## Kimir

It could be the IMC, it's not necessarily the RAM.
And more VSA is not always better on this platform, you have to find the sweet spot.


----------



## MR-e

When you say stock settings, did you bump your ram voltage up approximately 25mv to get 1T stable? That set should be 14-14-14-34-2T at 1.35V stock. To get 1T, you need to tweak ram voltage to about 1.37~1.38. VCCSA about .96 ~ 1.05


----------



## vibraslap

I would be hesitant to say you got a crappy kit. Some people have spent a lot of time tuning to find the limits of their kits. Most of the people you are referring too with higher clock speeds or tighter timings have higher rated kits than you.

For myself, I would say if you are stable at 3200 14-14-14-34 CR2 1.35V and a reasonable SA, then you got your moneys worth out of the kit.

Not that you couldn't push it further, but I would use that as a baseline.


----------



## sherlock

Got a 3400-C16 16GB TridentZ Kit coming from OutletPC this Thursday(Got it on a 15% discount for $87), let's hope the kit is good and my 6700K can handle it. Otherwise I will probably have to return kit and try my luck with a 3000-C15 TridentZ kit from elsewhere


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I would be hesitant to say you got a crappy kit. Some people have spent a lot of time tuning to find the limits of their kits. Most of the people you are referring too with higher clock speeds or tighter timings have higher rated kits than you.
> 
> For myself, I would say if you are stable at 3200 14-14-14-34 CR2 1.35V and a reasonable SA, then you got your moneys worth out of the kit.
> 
> Not that you couldn't push it further, but I would use that as a baseline.


A better 3200MHz kit than the quad channel 4x8GB TridentZ CL14s? I didn't know they existed, unless you mean people bought faster kits and clocked them down for the better timings?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That is, do you guys buy a lot of kits and effectively bin them and keep the best, such that you all have sets that can run 1T with tight timings?


Hello

I purchase the kits and then tune as needed. Seems that method is not for everyone though.


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> unless you mean people bought faster kits and clocked them down for the better timings?


Exactly









FWIW, the actual chips in these DIMM's are rated at 2133 by the actual manufacturer(Samsung), and then they are binned by G-skill and sold at whatever speed they could get reliably stable.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> unless you mean people bought faster kits and clocked them down for the better timings?
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly
Click to expand...

Well, that makes me feel a little better. I'll have to try 2T when I find the time to test again, which sadly may be a while.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> When you say stock settings, did you bump your ram voltage up approximately 25mv to get 1T stable? That set should be 14-14-14-34-2T at 1.35V stock. To get 1T, you need to tweak ram voltage to about 1.37~1.38. VCCSA about .96 ~ 1.05


I had it at 1.42V for CL13 with 1T like was suggested by another user, but that wasn't good enough. The stock timings were used with only 1.35V, but that was at 1T so I'll have to try it at 2T.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Exactly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, the actual chips in these DIMM's are rated at 2133 by the actual manufacturer(Samsung), and then they are binned by G-skill and sold at whatever speed they could get reliably stable.


But, in the end, the performance index (MHz / CL) is pretty similar across all the high-end kits, right? Nobody's selling 3600MHz @ CL13, I mean, haha. Or, are you saying, DRAM binned at a higher frequency will be able to run lower & tighter than a chip binned at the lower frequency? OK, wait, that makes sense.

All the sticks are sold at 1.35V; they reach their binned frequencies at that voltage. So, a chip that can do 3733 @ 1.35V is obviously better binned than a chip that can 3200 @ 1.35V, even if we ignore the timings.

Regarding CR1/2 (1T/2T), I found this article (but it's on *DDR3 on AMD IMC*): apparently, CL & CR & tRFC & tREF have the largest impacts, about 1% each.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Regarding CR1/2 (1T/2T), I found this article (but it's on *DDR3 on AMD IMC*): apparently, CL & CR & tRFC & tREF have the largest impacts, about 1% each.


Thank you. I would suspect that is difference is reduced further for DDR4 since it operates significantly faster than DDR3, but I obviously don't have any tests to back that up.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I purchase the kits and then tune as needed. Seems that method is not for everyone though.


Praz, you once mentioned "tuning" vs. "timing tweaking". I was wondering if you could elaborate on the two approaches for at least my enlightenment, though probably others could benefit too







.


----------



## stargate125645

Well, I stayed up late to test the RAM with a 2T command rate and 1.35V. No go, still get errors. So now is my kit bad such that I should file for replacement from G.Skill? Or perhaps I should test with a lower cache frequency? I went all the way down to 3.8GHz and still got errors.

Edit: Stock settings with a higher voltage also didn't work.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Large majority of kits on the market are binned at 2T, as per what is specified on the serial label and packaging


I think mine was binned at 4T with 2T being an overclock.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I think mine was binned at 4T with 2T being an overclock.


4T? What sort of madness is that? I would challenge them to a duel.


----------



## greg1184

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Well, I stayed up late to test the RAM with a 2T command rate and 1.35V. No go, still get errors. So now is my kit bad such that I should file for replacement from G.Skill? Or perhaps I should test with a lower cache frequency? I went all the way down to 3.8GHz and still got errors.
> 
> Edit: Stock settings with a higher voltage also didn't work.


I had to set DRAM voltage to 1.45 to get it without errors on HCI memtest at 3200 MHz. Even 0.01 lower would cause errors.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Well, I stayed up late to test the RAM with a 2T command rate and 1.35V. No go, still get errors. So now is my kit bad such that I should file for replacement from G.Skill? Or perhaps I should test with a lower cache frequency? I went all the way down to 3.8GHz and still got errors.
> 
> Edit: Stock settings with a higher voltage also didn't work.
> 
> 
> 
> I had to set DRAM voltage to 1.45 to get it without errors on HCI memtest at 3200 MHz. Even 0.01 lower would cause errors.
Click to expand...

Seems to me the RAM is not operating at its stated specifications, then, like mine.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I think mine was binned at 4T with 2T being an overclock.


4T? What sort of madness is that... I would challenge them to a duel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Seems to me the RAM is not operating at its stated specifications, then, like mine.


Takes 2 to tango, compensating for the HWE IMC's limitations at these speeds is the norm.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I think mine was binned at 4T with 2T being an overclock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4T? What sort of madness is that... I would challenge them to a duel.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Seems to me the RAM is not operating at its stated specifications, then, like mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Takes 2 to tango, compensating for the HWE IMC's limitations at these speeds is the norm.
Click to expand...

It didn't run at 1.4V. If I get it to run at stock settings and 1.45V, I should be satisfied? I can test again when I get home. However, I don't understand how giving voltage to the RAM has anything to do with the IMC, which would see none of that voltage. Increasing the cache voltage or system agent voltage or I/O voltage would make more sense (and those voltages are pretty well maxed out and everything is stable, aside from the RAM).


----------



## MR-e

^ two options:

buy a known good cpu that can handle 3200C13/14

then test your existing ram kit again
buy a known good ram kit that can handle 3200C13/14

Now isolate and figure out where your problem lies.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> ^ two options:
> 
> buy a known good cpu that can handle 3200C13/14
> 
> then test your existing ram kit again
> buy a known good ram kit that can handle 3200C13/14
> 
> Now isolate and figure out where your problem lies.


Ostensibly I already did option 2, which can only be confirmed by doing an RMA. Unless someone can explain to me what the RAM voltage has to do with the IMC, it looks like that's my direction. My CPU is doing 4.6GHz core at 1.23V...seems like not a smart move to get rid of that.

Edit: If someone has 32GB of quad channel (really just 4 sticks that will operate at the same level) RAM that operates at 3200C13 guaranteed (guaranteed as in you had it running at that level, not that I will be able to do so), I may be interested. I don't want to buy a brand new set, though, as I'd just RMA the ones I have in that case.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Ostensibly I already did option 2, which can only be confirmed by doing an RMA. Unless someone can explain to me what the RAM voltage has to do with the IMC, it looks like that's my direction. My CPU is doing 4.6GHz core at 1.23V...seems like not a smart move to get rid of that.


The IMC has to receive the data from the RAM in a read and send it in a write.

The internal function of the CPU and the DRAM is very different:
- DRAM cell is something like a capacitor that gets drained and re-filled when read or refreshed and filled/drained when written as required for 0/1
- CPU is a network of switches and static ram

So, they have different features that dominate when it comes to how fast they can switch/sense outputs/inputs respectively. They will both generally have driver/receiver buffers at the pins (pushing digital logic over PCBs is quite a bit harder than on the chip), but the failure can occur anywhere in the system - a good core OC does not guarantee a good IMC OC in any way shape or form.

HOWEVER, at the pins of the IMC, they have to "agree". Raja has some excellent write-ups with diagrams, but in any digitial system the voltage will swing high or low to some agreed upon voltage representing 0 and 1. A "driver" will generally swing beyond the bare minimum (swinging lower than required for "low" and higher than required for "high"). The receiver of that driver will "sense" "low" or "high" at the agreed upon levels.

As long as all this switching happens within the margins of error, then it all works. BOTH sides of this arrangement are driving and sensing on various pins for a the various phases of the DRAM access for a read or write operation.

So, if the IMC has a lower analog frequency response (higher capacitance for example), the DRAM may switch from "low" to "high" but the IMC may not "sense" this transition fast enough because it is literally low-pass filtering the DRAM's output signal. Same goes for the other direction, the IMC's switch from "low" to "high" or "high" to "low" may not go far enough or fast enough for the DRAM to "sense" it correctly. These transitions also "bounce", "ring" and "overshoot", so it may not even be how fast, but how much slop there is in the signal.

You can compensate on either side of this communication in many circumstances with more current/voltage or more wait-states (CAS, RAS, etc... ). How much you can compensate depends on why it is failing and the inherent frequency response of the circuit.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Ostensibly I already did option 2, which can only be confirmed by doing an RMA. Unless someone can explain to me what the RAM voltage has to do with the IMC, it looks like that's my direction. My CPU is doing 4.6GHz core at 1.23V...seems like not a smart move to get rid of that.
> 
> 
> 
> The IMC has to receive the data from the RAM in a read and send it in a write.
> 
> The internal function of the CPU and the DRAM is very different:
> - DRAM cell is something like a capacitor that gets drained and re-filled when read or refreshed and filled/drained when written as required for 0/1
> - CPU is a network of switches and static ram
> 
> So, they have different features that dominate when it comes to how fast they can switch/sense outputs/inputs respectively.
> 
> HOWEVER, at the pins of the IMC, they have to "agree". Raja has some excellent write-ups with diagrams, but in any digitial system the voltage will swing high or low to some agreed upon voltage representing 0 and 1. A "driver" will generally swing beyond the bare minimum (swinging lower than required for "low" and higher than required for "high"). The receiver of that driver will "sense" "low" or "high" at the agreed upon levels.
> 
> As long as all this switching happens within the margins of error, then it all works. BOTH sides of this arrangement are driving and sensing on various pins for a the various phases of the DRAM access for a read or write operation.
> 
> So, if the IMC has a lower analog frequency response (higher capacitance for example), the DRAM may switch from "low" to "high" but the IMC may not "sense" this transition fast enough because it is literally low-pass filtering the DRAM's output signal. Same goes for the other direction, the IMC's switch from "low" to "high" or "high" to "low" may not go far enough or fast enough for the DRAM to "sense" it correctly. These transitions also "bounce", "ring" and "overshoot", so it may not even be how fast, but how much slop there is in the signal.
> 
> You can compensate on either side of this communication in many circumstances with more current/voltage or more wait-states (CAS, RAS, etc... ). How much you can compensate depends on why it is failing and the inherent frequency response of the circuit.
Click to expand...

So, the signal may not be strong enough when sent from the RAM, in short, unless I up the voltage? If so, that makes sense.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So, the signal may not be strong enough when sent from the RAM, in short, unless I up the voltage? If so, that makes sense.


In short yes, by increasing the voltage at the DIMM, you can potentially overcome the IMC's deaf ear to your RAM's output and/or the amplification of the IMC's output coming to the DIMM (a "buffer" on the I/O is an amplifier) might increase the signal enough that the chips on the DIMM can overcome the weak signal from the IMC.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So, the signal may not be strong enough when sent from the RAM, in short, unless I up the voltage? If so, that makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> In short yes, by increasing the voltage at the DIMM, you can potentially overcome the IMC's deaf ear to your RAM's output and/or the amplification of the IMC's output coming to the DIMM (a "buffer" on the I/O is an amplifier) might increase the signal enough that the chips on the DIMM can overcome the weak signal from the IMC.
Click to expand...

OK, then. Just so I have a gameplan going forward: What if 1.45V doesn't work with CL14? Since I've tested a low cache frequency to no avail, the RAM should be the focus given the CPU and cache are stable at my signature speeds, right? Suppose I have to do 1.45V and CL15 or CL16 at 3200MHz. Would I call the RAM bad then? Where is the line to draw where I can be reasonably sure my IMC is just not a picky SOB and the RAM is actually bad?


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> OK, then. Just so I have a gameplan going forward: What if 1.45V doesn't work with CL14? Since I've tested a low cache frequency to no avail, the RAM should be the focus given the CPU and cache are stable at my signature speeds, right? Suppose I have to do 1.45V and CL15 or CL16 at 3200MHz. Would I call the RAM bad then? Where is the line to draw where I can be reasonably sure my IMC is just not a picky SOB and the RAM is actually bad?


Unless you have equipment to test the ram in isolation, I'm afraid there is no hard line.

If the ram functions at 2133 with no errors, then odds are that the sticker values are what the DIMM manufacturer got on their tester which is supposedly representative of a correctly functioning chip. That's about as good as I've ever been able to say a DIMM was or was not "bad" and then its up to your retailer/provider and their RMA policy. If you churn through multiple kits and get similar results, then that's the answer...

In terms of core/cache OC, they provide "hints", but not certainty. Every one of those billions of gates on the chip has to agree to run "faster" than Intel's markings or you will get an error from whichever part did not.

All the usual techniques for memory apply - more uncore, more sa, more vdimm, tweak timings, etc... wash, rinse and permute... Don't forget to test the lower voltages as well. Too much can hurt as much as too little. Sorry, I don't have any magic bullets, just many hours of "entertainment"







trying to tease out the best settings.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Edit: If someone has 32GB of quad channel (really just 4 sticks that will operate at the same level) RAM that operates at 3200C13 guaranteed (guaranteed as in you had it running at that level, not that I will be able to do so), I may be interested. I don't want to buy a brand new set, though, as I'd just RMA the ones I have in that case.


Hello

I have set that will do this easily. However none for sale. And I would never guarantee you would be able to run any memory at the same timings/voltage I have.


----------



## stargate125645

Only thing left to tweak is RAM stuff, since cache and core aren't stable below current voltages and RAM still won't work at stock even with lower cache speed, I'd think.

Edit: VCCIO and VCCSA I can probably fiddle with a little bit (I can only lower the latter, though). What sort of voltage increments should I test things at when finding the "sweet spot"? Does the number of errors MemTest gives indicate how close I am to being stable such that I can fiddle with the voltages to zone in on the "sweet spot"? Otherwise, it's just guess and check.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Edit: If someone has 32GB of quad channel (really just 4 sticks that will operate at the same level) RAM that operates at 3200C13 guaranteed (guaranteed as in you had it running at that level, not that I will be able to do so), I may be interested. I don't want to buy a brand new set, though, as I'd just RMA the ones I have in that case.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> I have set that will do this easily. However none for sale. And I would never guarantee you would be able to run any memory at the same timings/voltage I have.
Click to expand...

OK...


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> after loading XMP, increase VSA to at least 1.25 and VCCIO to 1.225V.


Thanks, got the EVGA 3000-C15 to post and run stable in windows with that setting. Is VSA of 1.25V safe? I got a bit concerned when my ASUS bios colored it purple.


----------



## Jpmboy

At least I'm not the only one with the carry-over quotation thing going on.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Thanks, got the EVGA 3000-C15 to post and run stable in windows with that setting. Is VSA of 1.25V safe? I got a bit concerned when my ASUS bios colored it purple.


on z170 - yes, 1.25V VSA is fine.


----------



## Silent Scone

lol, drafts for the lose.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> At least I'm not the only one with the carry-over quotation thing going on.


Off-topic, but yes. Is this just me or is OCN posting & quoting all funky this week? I've double-posted like 5 times and the quotes...either people are quoting in weird ways or the quote button is different. I don't know.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> At least I'm not the only one with the carry-over quotation thing going on.


Did you just get my quote from the Broadwell thread???


----------



## Praz

Hello

Best I was able to do timing wise without raising voltages. Optimizing some of the memory related non-voltage settings was needed though.

Praz---R5E10-i7 6950X @ 4.2/3.5---3200MHz-32GB-C13-13-13-32-1T----CPU 1.256V---SA 0.976V---VCCIN 1.824V---HCI 550%---GSAT 2 Hours


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Best I was able to do timing wise without raising voltages. Optimizing some of the memory related non-voltage settings was needed though.
> 
> Praz---R5E10-i7 6950X @ 4.2/3.5---3200MHz-32GB-C13-13-13-32-1T----CPU 1.256V---SA 0.976V---VCCIN 1.824V---HCI 550%---GSAT 2 Hours
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice - finesse and of course, knowledge! ... Sooo, now give those sticks the voltage they deserve!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Off-topic, but yes. Is this just me or is OCN posting & quoting all funky this week? I've double-posted like 5 times and the quotes...either people are quoting in weird ways or the quote button is different. I don't know.


I double posted once or twice, hit submit, window didn't close, hit it again, learned from that though, seems to be a website bug.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Best I was able to do timing wise without raising voltages. Optimizing some of the memory related non-voltage settings was needed though.
> 
> Praz---R5E10-i7 6950X @ 4.2/3.5---3200MHz-32GB-C13-13-13-32-1T----CPU 1.256V---SA 0.976V---VCCIN 1.824V---HCI 550%---GSAT 2 Hours


Nice! Low VCCIN also


----------



## GRABibus

Hello all,
I would ike to submit here an issue I have with HCI Memtest.
I had the opportunity since several days to test a new i7-5930K.

I set my overclocks as usual.

I first find the core stability :
4.4GHz at 1.2Vcore adaptative

Then cache :
4.3GHz at 1.2V.

Vccin=1.9V
LLC = level 7
Vccio = 1.1V
Vccsa=1.05V

For RAM, I decided to keep my 3200MHz 15-16-16-36-250-1T at 1.35V I had on the other cpu.
I just validated this by one hour HCI Memtes and it was "ok".

So, I decided to lauch a first global benchmark : Aida64 "FPU+CPU+Memory+Cache" 12 hours => No errors

I launched this morning HCI Memtest again to go for 1000% coverage at least, and bump ! Bsod after 1 minute !!!

Tht'a strange because I could be able to pass it one hour.
This overclock seems very stable in games, no issues.

I can imagine that the memory is not stable, but how can we have a bsod after 1 minute HCI Memtest and no issues in real life withy e computer (Gaming mainly) and no erors in 12 hours aida64....??
What can be the issue ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Disparity between memory training


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Disparity between memory training


And How do you manage This ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> And How do you manage This ?


Check RTL/IOL, these settings are chosen by the board during the training routines, and can drift depending on the condition of the test


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> I launched this morning HCI Memtest again to go for 1000% coverage at least, and bump ! Bsod after 1 minute !!!


Hello

HCI failing this fast even with only somewhat stable memory settings is often cache instability for the given memory speed/timings.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> HCI failing this fast even with only somewhat stable memory settings is often cache instability for the given memory speed/timings.


Hello,
but I could run HCI one hour and aida64 12 hours and 2 hours of gaming...

Training is a concept I really don't know.

Problem is that how to reproduce such a fast fail bsod and how to solve ?
Asd i could run HCI one hour, maybe the issue will never come again as it seems erratic....


----------



## Silent Scone

dp


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Hello,
> but I could run HCI one hour and aida64 12 hours and 2 hours of gaming...
> 
> Training is a concept I really don't know.
> 
> Problem is that how to reproduce such a fast fail bsod and how to solve ?
> Asd i could run HCI one hour, maybe the issue will never come again as it seems erratic....


What boxes were ticked during AIDA? HCI is fairly brutal at loading up both these subsystems. The problem with cache instability is it's difficult to trace until point of failure, which can be at any time, whether it be on initialing the test, or any amount of hours after.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What boxes were ticked during AIDA? HCI is fairly brutal at loading up both these subsystems, the problem with cache instability is it's difficult to trace until point of failure, which can be at any time, whether it be on initialing the test, or any amount of hours after.


CPU + FPU + Cache + Memory

Generally, when I had cache issues, it is a complete hang and blocking of the pc


----------



## Silent Scone

Who knows. You'll have to see what works best. Dialing back on the memory and uncore multiplier is the easiest approach.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> CPU + FPU + Cache + Memory


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Who knows. You'll have to see what works best. Dialing back on the memory and uncore multiplier is the easiest approach.


OK.
I will try first memory timings tweakings and repeat several HCI tests to check.


----------



## GRABibus

Can RAM stability due to too low Vccin ?
Can cache stability due to too low Vccin ?


----------



## stargate125645

I have to do 17-18-18-36-2T for 3200MHz in order for MemTest to reach your 200% threshold error-free. I might be able to tweak things slightly further, but in general that's just crappy.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Generally, when I had cache issues, it is a complete hang and blocking of the pc


Hello

There is a difference between cache instability and instability at the cache/memory interface.


----------



## Silent Scone

Cache at 4.3 with 1.2v may possibly be overoptimistic also, you could dial this back


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Cache at 4.3 with 1.2v may possibly be overoptimistic also, you could dial this back


With My other CPU , it is cache stable 4.6Ghz at Vcache = 1.25v.









This is why I am optimistic


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I have to do 17-18-18-36-2T for 3200MHz in order for MemTest to reach your 200% threshold error-free. I might be able to tweak things slightly further, but in general that's just crappy.


Yes, to put it technically - this is looser than a bucket of fishing worms covered in butter.


----------



## KedarWolf

5960x At 4.7GHZ, 4.5GHZ cache, 128GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 at 2666MHX 12-12-12- 1T, Asus X99-A II motherboard.

Can you add this to the database, Silent Scone?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 5960x At 4.7GHZ, 4.5GHZ cache, 128GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 at 2666MHX 12-12-12- 1T, Asus X99-A II motherboard.
> 
> Can you add this to the database, Silent Scone?


Sure, please add voltages


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sure, please add voltages


How do I add voltages in Linux or is Windows okay?


----------



## djgar

Can you please add this one too?

djgar--i6900K @4.582/3.818---3400Mhz-C14-15-14-21-1T----1.39v---SA 1.13v---Stressapptest----1 Hour 20 min

1.386 vcore
1.275 vcache
1.97 vrm / cpu in


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I have to do 17-18-18-36-2T for 3200MHz in order for MemTest to reach your 200% threshold error-free. I might be able to tweak things slightly further, but in general that's just crappy.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, to put it technically - this is looser than a bucket of fishing worms covered in butter.
Click to expand...

I just find it odd that the CPU would be perfectly stable at 4.4GHz with only 1.2V for cache, but then complain endlessly about 3200MHz RAM at even CL15, and even when I lower the cache down to 3.8GHz. I still question whether my RAM simply doesn't operate at binned specifications. The ASUS Sabertooth website has QVL RAM at 16-16-16-36-2T from G.Skill at 3200MHz, so I will try to reach those timings. If I cannot, then I'm going to RMA the RAM and see what I get back.

Edit: I realize there is only a few percent difference between CL14 and CL16 or 17, and that's only in benchmarks, but I'd still like to make sure I don't have defective components.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I just find it odd that the CPU would be perfectly stable at 4.4GHz with only 1.2V for cache, but then complain endlessly about 3200MHz RAM at even CL15, and even when I lower the cache down to 3.8GHZ


I think the fact you find this odd is part of the wealth of why you're struggling with this unfortunately
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Can you please add this one too?
> 
> CPU 4.582GHz
> Cache 3818GHz
> DDR4-3400 14-15-14-21-CR1
> 
> 1.386 vcore
> 1.275 vcache
> 1.97 vrm / cpu in
> 1.39 vdimm eventual
> 1.13 vccsa


Will do when I add the rest.

Would appreciate if folks followed even if not to the letter, the format given in the OP. You're damaging my eyes making me trawl through your screenshots - unless you wish to donate funds for my milk bottle prescription


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I just find it odd that the CPU would be perfectly stable at 4.4GHz with only 1.2V for cache, but then complain endlessly about 3200MHz RAM at even CL15, and even when I lower the cache down to 3.8GHZ
> 
> 
> 
> I think the fact you find this odd is part of the wealth of why you're struggling with this unfortunately
Click to expand...

So I should expect CL17 RAM at 3200MHz on HWE as a normal situation? That's what it boils down to.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So I should expect CL17 RAM at 3200MHz on HWE as a normal situation? That's what it boils down to.


No, but the fact your CPU is able to do what you say it does has no bearing on why you're struggling with getting the memory stable


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> So I should expect CL17 RAM at 3200MHz on HWE as a normal situation? That's what it boils down to.
> 
> 
> 
> No, but the fact your CPU is able to do what you say it does has no bearing on why you're struggling with getting the memory stable
Click to expand...

Except that it does since the IMC can be overwhelmed from either side of the pipeline (RAM or cache) from everything I've read, including in this thread. What I've seen you guys post as your settings suggests the same from your table up front, and from the QVL from ASUS. But let's assume for a moment that they have nothing to do with each other in this case. That means I either have a CPU that performs superbly in every category except on RAM timing compatibility, or I have bad RAM. I'm trying to figure out which it is. If you think the problem is not where I'm troubleshooting, then just say where you think it is rather than vagaries. It's much easier for someone with less experience and time to devote to this to follow when people are explicit.

Edit: In short, dumb it down for me. I don't have the experience or the knowledge to figure it out quickly. Of the two potential problems, is there a way to determine which? My guess and check is clearly not finding the problem, as you pointed out.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I think the fact you find this odd is part of the wealth of why you're struggling with this unfortunately
> Will do when I add the rest.
> 
> Would appreciate if folks followed even if not to the letter, the format given in the OP. You're damaging my eyes making me trawl through your screenshots - unless you wish to donate funds for my milk bottle prescription


Gotcha! Redoing post


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Except that it does since the IMC can be overwhelmed from either side of the pipeline (RAM or cache) from everything I've read, including in this thread. What I've seen you guys post as your settings suggests the same from your table up front, and from the QVL from ASUS. But let's assume for a moment that they have nothing to do with each other in this case. That means I either have a CPU that performs superbly in every category except on RAM timing compatibility, or I have bad RAM. I'm trying to figure out which it is. If you think the problem is not where I'm troubleshooting, then just say where you think it is rather than vagaries. It's much easier for someone with less experience and time to devote to this to follow when people are explicit.
> 
> Edit: In short, dumb it down for me. I don't have the experience or the knowledge to figure it out quickly. Of the two potential problems, is there a way to determine which? My guess and check is clearly not finding the problem, as you pointed out.


I'll be honest, I think you are so lost it would be easier to start from scratch - people can point you in the right direction, but if these things revolved around one size fits all solutions, troubleshooting would be a lot easier. Sometimes if experience is not on your side it's easier to relax things, this does not exclude memory frequency.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I think the fact you find this odd is part of the wealth of why you're struggling with this unfortunately
> Will do when I add the rest.
> 
> Would appreciate if folks followed even if not to the letter, the format given in the OP. You're damaging my eyes making me trawl through your screenshots - unless you wish to donate funds for my milk bottle prescription


OP is a bit unclear, I do 'To bring up system info within Mint Terminal, type: sudo dmidecode type 17 and scroll to the relevant info.' and I get a Window with a few pages of scrolling info, not really sure what to include, but i'll re-add my submission with just what the OP says and System Monitor.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Except that it does since the IMC can be overwhelmed from either side of the pipeline (RAM or cache) from everything I've read, including in this thread. What I've seen you guys post as your settings suggests the same from your table up front, and from the QVL from ASUS. But let's assume for a moment that they have nothing to do with each other in this case. That means I either have a CPU that performs superbly in every category except on RAM timing compatibility, or I have bad RAM. I'm trying to figure out which it is. If you think the problem is not where I'm troubleshooting, then just say where you think it is rather than vagaries. It's much easier for someone with less experience and time to devote to this to follow when people are explicit.
> 
> Edit: In short, dumb it down for me. I don't have the experience or the knowledge to figure it out quickly. Of the two potential problems, is there a way to determine which? My guess and check is clearly not finding the problem, as you pointed out.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be honest, I think you are so lost it would be easier to start from scratch - people can point you in the right direction, but if these things revolved around one size fits all solutions, troubleshooting would be a lot easier. Sometimes if experience is not on your side it's easier to relax things, this does not exclude memory frequency.
Click to expand...

Again, that's entirely vague...so never mind I guess.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> OP is a bit unclear, I do 'To bring up system info within Mint Terminal, type: sudo dmidecode type 17 and scroll to the relevant info.' and I get a Window with a few pages of scrolling info, not really sure what to include, but i'll re-add my submission with just what the OP says and System Monitor.


"sudo dmidecode type 17" doesn't work properly - try "sudo dmidecode -t 17".


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf 5960x @4.7/4.5---2666Mhz-C12-12-12-32-1T 1.4v---SA 1.12v--- Stressapptest 2 Hours

1.263v Core
1.248v Cache
1.92v CPU Input


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> "sudo dmidecode type 17" doesn't work properly - try "sudo dmidecode -t 17".


Thank you.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Again, that's entirely vague...so never mind I guess.


Sorry, start a thread if you want to be spoon fed.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Check RTL/IOL, these settings are chosen by the board during the training routines, and can drift depending on the condition of the test


A lot of other parameters adjusted by training that can't be changed manually, so it's always wise to test under different conditions and work in some headroom.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Can RAM stability due to too low Vccin ?
> Can cache stability due to too low Vccin ?


Probably for the first question. Yes for the second.

Still wouldn't be the first thing I'd look at though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I just find it odd that the CPU would be perfectly stable at 4.4GHz with only 1.2V for cache, but then complain endlessly about 3200MHz RAM at even CL15, and even when I lower the cache down to 3.8GHz. I still question whether my RAM simply doesn't operate at binned specifications.


Perfectly possible to have bad memory, or memory that was right on the edge under the manufacturer's test conditions.

Higher CPU and cache speed will put more strain on the memory by shifting any bottleneck more and more to the memory as the other parts become able to process data faster. In general, anything that increases memory performance is going to increase memory strain.

A long series of tests with the CPU as close to stock as XMP allows would be needed to see if the memory really is defective.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Perfectly possible to have bad memory, or memory that was right on the edge under the manufacturer's test conditions.
> 
> Higher CPU and cache speed will put more strain on the memory by shifting any bottleneck more and more to the memory as the other parts become able to process data faster. In general, anything that increases memory performance is going to increase memory strain.


That's what I read previously, though was told above differently. Go figure.
Quote:


> A long series of tests with the CPU as close to stock as XMP allows would be needed to see if the memory really is defective.


I will put the CPU at stock and test the memory with XMP default settings. That's what I was trying to mimic by lowering the cache back down dramatically and testing at XMP RAM settings. If it doesn't work at XMP settings with no CPU overclock, I'll contact G.Skill. Is it possible for the core overclock to affect the memory significantly? I ask because if the answer to that is no, my cache frequency isn't going to get much lower than 3.8GHz when putting things to stock values. I suppose I could raise core voltage further if that could help. Assuming things do work with stock CPU settings and XMP, increasing the core frequency is more beneficial than memory from what I've seen in benchmarks, so I would imagine my best bet is to just go with the looser timings.


----------



## Silent Scone

Contacting G.Skill is pointless. XMP is not certified to work with every CPU, if you're looking for faulty memory test the system at stock, this much should be obvious.


----------



## Desolutional

Exactly this. My CPU has a bad IMC, but with a bit of tweaking decent timings are possible. XMP isn't guaranteed to work on all CPUs, and it depends on how the manufacturers test their XMP compatibility (sample size, motherboards, DIMM layout, channels). Sometimes if you've tested more than 2 kits and XMP fails out of the box, no matter how much VTT and VCCSA tweaking you do, then you have a dud IMC. However, those kits are guaranteed to operate on JEDEC spec (2133MHz for HW-E, 2400MHz for SK, BW-E).

The easiest way to know if it is the IMC is to make sure to test with different kits beforehand (although that may not be financially doable).


----------



## Blameless

The cheaper the RAM, the more pleasant the surprises regarding it's performance tend to be!


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> The cheaper the RAM, the more pleasant the surprises regarding it's performance tend to be!


Right?! I got 8GB of DDR3-1866 CL9 for $60 back in 2013. Surprisingly, it ran 2200MHz @ 9-10-9-27 2T, IIRC, with just 1.70V. Not gonna lie, but that alone turned me onto RAM overclocking, which I had never really cared about (don't hate me).


----------



## MR-e

sexpot--i7 5960X @4.7/4.4---3200Mhz-C14-14-14-32-1T----1.42v---SA 1.02v---HCI 1300% 1.96v Input and LLC 5.

Scone, buddy ole pal, can I finally be admitted? I can't get C13-13-13-30 1T grrr...









TurboV is showing my cache as adaptive with .190V for some reason, it should be +.330. In hindsight, I probably should have just closed it and restarted TurboV, probably glitched out due to HCI and all the other programs running still. Also, anyone know what PLL term voltage is? I don't recall setting that in bios... but it looks quite high maybe?



Aida shot


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> The cheaper the RAM, the more pleasant the surprises regarding it's performance tend to be!


I got *these* running 3200Mhz


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic - 6600k @ 4.8Ghz / 4.8Ghz 1.43vcore - 2x4GB Crucial Micron @ 3200Mhz 16-16-16-40-1T 1.4vdimm -SA Auto


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> sexpot--i7 5960X @4.7/4.4---3200Mhz-C14-14-14-32-1T----1.42v---SA 1.02v---HCI 1300% 1.96v Input and LLC 5.
> 
> Scone, buddy ole pal, can I finally be admitted? I can't get C13-13-13-30 1T grrr...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TurboV is showing my cache as adaptive with .190V for some reason, it should be +.330. In hindsight, I probably should have just closed it and restarted TurboV, probably glitched out due to HCI and all the other programs running still. Also, anyone know what PLL term voltage is? I don't recall setting that in bios... but it looks quite high maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> Aida shot


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic - 6600k @ 4.8Ghz / 4.8Ghz 1.43vcore - 2x4GB Crucial Micron @ 3200Mhz 16-16-16-40-1T 1.4vdimm -SA Auto


Nice work


----------



## kgtuning

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I got *these* running 3200Mhz


may i ask your opinion on g.skill "value" ram? whats the difference between ones with heat spreaders and bare ones?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kgtuning*
> 
> may i ask your opinion on g.skill "value" ram? whats the difference between ones with heat spreaders and bare ones?


Well i never used them so not sure how they would oc. I would think that g.skill value ram is probably there worst binned chips.

G.skill bin's there sticks pretty good so i don't think you would get much of a oc out of the value ram.

Not even sure what IC's they have.


----------



## kgtuning

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Well i never used them so not sure how they would oc. I would think that g.skill value ram is probably there worst binned chips.
> 
> G.skill bin's there sticks pretty good so i don't think you would get much of a oc out of the value ram.
> 
> Not even sure what IC's they have.


Okay I just thought I'd ask. Thanks


----------



## GRABibus

Hi,
I am really interested to know from each other how long you run HCI MemTest to consider your rig as "Memory + Cache" stable ?
I ask you this because on HCI MemTest they say that "Overnight" (Several hours) is recommended and at the same time, 1000% is considered as *Golden (Which is only 4 hours on a 16GB system at 3200MHz RAM).

This night I passed 8 hours HCI MemTest on my system.
Should I consider it as Rock stable RAM test ?

Thanks !


----------



## Kimir

You can consider your rig stable when after you passed all of that and using it everyday without issue. Because in the end, you should use the rig, not only stress test .


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Hi,
> I am really interested to know from each other how long you run HCI MemTest to consider your rig as "Memory + Cache" stable ?
> I ask you this because on HCI MemTest they say that "Overnight" (Several hours) is recommended and at the same time, 1000% is considered as *Golden (Which is only 4 hours on a 16GB system at 3200MHz RAM).
> 
> This night I passed 8 hours HCI MemTest on my system.
> Should I consider it as Rock stable RAM test ?
> 
> Thanks !


yes.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Hi,
> I am really interested to know from each other how long you run HCI MemTest to consider your rig as "Memory + Cache" stable ?
> I ask you this because on HCI MemTest they say that "Overnight" (Several hours) is recommended and at the same time, 1000% is considered as *Golden (Which is only 4 hours on a 16GB system at 3200MHz RAM).
> 
> This night I passed 8 hours HCI MemTest on my system.
> Should I consider it as Rock stable RAM test ?
> 
> Thanks !


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You can consider your rig stable when after you passed all of that and using it everyday without issue. Because in the end, you should use the rig, not only stress test .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yes.


Your memory is rock stable, but other aspects may not, hence RealBench, Aida64 and other such stress testing ... IMHO


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Your memory is rock stable, but other aspects may not, hence RealBench, Aida64 and other such stress testing ... IMHO


For my gaming computer I generally stick with Realbench, aida64 and HCI Memtest.
Beside HCI stability on 8 hours, I am also Realbench stable on 8 hours.
I will launch aida for 12 hours (CPU + FPU + Cache + Memory) and if it passes, I wil consider all these a s "Green light"


----------



## Kimir

No need to include memory in your Aida test if you already are HCI stable. You'd better do CPU+FPU alone and cache alone, then all 3 together and be done with it if everything pass.


----------



## vibraslap

Any reason not to just jump in and do all 3 together at the start? Or is that just to narrow the cause of problems?


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> No need to include memory in your Aida test if you already are HCI stable. You'd better do CPU+FPU alone and cache alone, then all 3 together and be done with it if everything pass.


How long each ?
CPU + FPU alone won't produce too much Heat for My nh-d15 ?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Any reason not to just jump in and do all 3 together at the start? Or is that *just to narrow the cause of problems*?


Precisely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> How long each ?
> CPU + FPU alone won't produce too much Heat for My nh-d15 ?


If you can't cool it, then you can't test it, so you can't call it stable, do you?









But well, that have nothing to do with memory, so let's keep it at that here.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Precisely.
> If you can't cool it, then you can't test it, so you can't call it stable, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But well, that have nothing to do with memory, so let's keep it at that here.


I do not do tests which produce core and package temps higher Than 80C referred at 22C ambiant.
So if CPU + FPU test doesn't follow This rule , I Will not do it


----------



## vibraslap

I've never seen AIDA64 produce extreme temps under any test compared to something like prime95 or OCCT. If your system can't handle the thermal load from an AIDA test it probably cant handle any sort of high load.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I've never seen AIDA64 produce extreme temps under any test compared to something like prime95 or OCCT. If your system can't handle the thermal load from an AIDA test it probably cant handle any sort of high load.


run fpu x64 solo.


----------



## GRABibus

Aida64 "FPU" test alone produces too much heat, especially on my CPU package.
CPU + FPU seems ok from temperature side, for both core and CPU package temps.
I will run 8 hours of "CPU + FPU" test and 8 hours of "cache" test alone


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I've never seen AIDA64 produce extreme temps under any test compared to something like prime95 or OCCT. If your system can't handle the thermal load from an AIDA test it probably cant handle any sort of high load.


If you run Aida64 "FPU" test alone, you will get much more heat than OCCT Large data set.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> If you run Aida64 "FPU" test alone, you will get much more heat than OCCT Large data set.


^^ This!


----------



## Qwinn

On my system, just adding "GPU" to the default tests got the CPU temps significantly higher than OCCT as well... probably not directly but just by the video cards increasing the ambient temps within the case.


----------



## jdallara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> On my system, just adding "GPU" to the default tests got the CPU temps significantly higher than OCCT as well... probably not directly but just by the video cards increasing the ambient temps within the case.


Easy test, take the side panel off, aim a large room fan at the case and see if things change.


----------



## vmanuelgm

[email protected]@3333-CL14-14-14-32-1T--1.385v-SA-1.12v--VCCIO-1.05v--400% coverage...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> I've never seen AIDA64 produce extreme temps under any test compared to something like prime95 or OCCT. If your system can't handle the thermal load from an AIDA test it probably cant handle any sort of high load.


AIDA's FPU test / AVX 2.0 routines will still push cooling, especially on the 10 core counterparts


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> AIDA's FPU test / AVX 2.0 routines will still push cooling, especially on the 10 core counterparts


Definitely saw the highest temps yet there...

Though I haven't run P95 and likely never will, I haven't yet run into any case of benchmark that suggested I needed to lower AVX from 4.4 on my 6950. I did try to set it to -4 when I tried 4.5GHz briefly and it wasn't the magic bullet... but I was in a bit of hurry to find stable and 4.4 has been quite good and runs cool.


----------



## Blameless

I just checked temps with ADIA64's FPU test.

It peaks about 7C cooler than Prime95 28.9 128k in-place FFTs and about 10C cooler than the newest Intel LINPACK binaries.

It's definitely warmer than something like transcoding, but even if I weren't as picky as I am, I'd be very hesitant to run settings/cooling that couldn't handle the AIDA64 FPU test.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qwinn*
> 
> On my system, just adding "GPU" to the default tests got the CPU temps significantly higher than OCCT as well... probably not directly but just by the video cards increasing the ambient temps within the case.


Where is your radiator and is it an intake or an exhaust?

I have my AIO as my primary intake, so adding the GPU test to the mix barely changed my CPU temps at all.

Primary sig system, 26-28C ambients (room temp rose ~3C during the 21 minutes of testing shown), 92C reported TJmax, full pump speed/auto fan speed on the Nepton, GPUs at stock, all case fans at 7v:


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Definitely saw the highest temps yet there...
> 
> Though I haven't run P95 and likely never will, I haven't yet run into any case of benchmark that suggested I needed to lower AVX from 4.4 on my 6950. I did try to set it to -4 when I tried 4.5GHz briefly and it wasn't the magic bullet... but I was in a bit of hurry to find stable and 4.4 has been quite good and runs cool.


there are a few benchmarks that might make you reconsider. here's one::

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=155079
1B and higher... best to run it using the javascript "submitter".

and: http://www.kriegtech.ovh/krieg_math_benchmark.html


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> there are a few benchmarks that might make you reconsider. here's one::
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=155079
> 1B and higher... best to run it using the javascript "submitter".
> 
> and: http://www.kriegtech.ovh/krieg_math_benchmark.html


Oh I am sure... I am not an overclocker, I just play one on TV since intel started gimping their chips' markings based on their lousy factory coolers ;-)

So, I am only really interested if the chip is stable for my purposes which are nasty enough compared to most software, but aren't going to cook the FPU the way a benchmark does. So, my statement should in no way be taken to suggest that aida is the most stressful FPU benchmark out there or that you cannot cook your chip like Emeril (BAM!)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Oh I am sure... I am not an overclocker, I just play one on TV since intel started gimping their chips' markings based on their lousy factory coolers ;-)
> 
> So, I am only really interested if the chip is stable for my purposes which are nasty enough compared to most software, but aren't going to cook the FPU the way a benchmark does. So, my statement should in no way be taken to suggest that aida is the most stressful FPU benchmark out there or that you cannot cook your chip like Emeril (BAM!)


lol - understood. You might like the Krieg Math bench tho. It's not over the top like y-prime can be.


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - understood. You might like the Krieg Math bench tho. It's not over the top like y-prime can be.


Just grabbed that one (Krieg Math bench), testing it now.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Just grabbed that one (Krieg Math bench), testing it now.


I gotta get this 5960X/R5E back up and running soon. I saw your score on the website... that rig is doin' great!


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I gotta get this 5960X/R5E back up and running soon. I saw your score on the website... that rig is doin' great!


Cool little test, didn't even made my 4930K heat up, so much cooling for this one compared to the 5960X. I need moar rads for that one imo.
I'm amazed to the 6900K score tho, it almost match your 6950X. You can see the IPC improvement on BW-E on that one!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Cool little test, didn't even made my 4930K heat up, so much cooling for this one compared to the 5960X. I need moar rads for that one imo.
> I'm amazed to the 6900K score tho, it almost match your 6950X. You can see the IPC improvement on BW-E on that one!


yeah - I like the benchmark, maybe the bot will give it points someday.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Hey Scone, how long to list my 400% in B-E 32 GB???










Maybe you're receivng spanish lessons in the meanwhile...


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Hey Scone, how long to list my 400% in B-E 32 GB???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Maybe you're receivng spanish lessons in the meanwhile...*


Perhaps you should stop with this attitude.
To my eyes, you are giving the stick to be beaten with.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Vive la france!!!

Dude, I am joking with Scone, he jokes, I joke, its not your business, or is it??? More boyfriends???









He obviously needs spanish lessons, but not from BBC of course!!!

Let me be and dont attack and dont crusade against me, its not the gentleman's way...

If you all talk seriously, I talk seriously, if you joke I joke...

By the way, was searching the forum rules and specially that which states that only english can be spoken here and couldn't find it, could you please link it???


----------



## Kimir

Terms Of Service, aka ToS on the very bottom of the forum.
Quote:


> You are EXPECTED to:
> 
> Edit your posts for spelling and grammar. Overclock.net's usability depends on this.
> Use capitalization
> No excessive Internet jargon
> Use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation
> 
> *Communicate in English only*
> Treat others with respect at all times
> Maintain an environment that is friendly to all ages
> No swearing, racy images etc.


And the best jokes are the shortest ones, as we say here.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Ok Kimir, seen english only...

Hope you remind Scone that sentence in the future, french mate...

I insist, would like to see my 400% in Scone's list, he is posting on and on but hasn't included it yet...










And please, Scone, want a 1000 coverage with the same parameters I used, I guess it will be too easy for a stable guy like you...










Meanwhile, Scone and his rig:


----------



## MR-e

For the past week or so, I've been barely able to contain my morning coffee while reading the banter between these two, haha


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Ok Kimir, seen english only...
> 
> Hope you remind Scone that sentence in the future, french mate...
> 
> I insist, would like to see my 400% in Scone's list, he is posting on and on but hasn't included it yet...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And please, Scone, want a 1000 coverage with the same parameters I used, I guess it will be too easy for a stable guy like you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Scone and his rig:


Hola!

I'm currently away but will add on my return. However I think in my instance, I will run HCI at settings which are stable.

Rather than do what you did and prove that they aren't.


----------



## vmanuelgm

At present you have several achievements listed. Among em we find some hci's and max coverage is 550%, so, how do we know if they are stable at 1000% coverage???

Maybe you are a fortune teller...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> At present you have several achievements listed. Among em we find some hci's and max coverage is 550%, so, how do we know if they are stable at 1000% coverage???
> 
> Maybe you are a fortune teller...


----------



## vmanuelgm

One day in Scone's life:


----------



## lilchronic

I really cant believe how well these crucial micron chips overclock.

Just ran 2200% hci with 2 errors right after 1000%


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I really cant believe how well these crucial micron chips overclock.
> 
> Just ran 2200% hci with 2 errors right after 1000%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I really cant believe how well these crucial micron chips overclock.
> 
> Just ran 2200% hci with 2 errors right after 1000%


Nice. are those the 2400s?

I have my wife's rig running 2x8GB GSkill "economy" 2133 naked ram on an Impact/6600K @ 3000c14 w/1.425V. I know they could go higher but she is basically PC-illiterate... why bother.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice. are those the 2400s?
> 
> I have my wife's rig running 2x8GB GSkill "economy" 2133 naked ram on an Impact/6600K @ 3000c14 w/1.425V. I know they could go higher but she is basically PC-illiterate... why bother.


They are the 2133Mhz naked kit. 3200Mhz 14-14-14-34-1T was @ 1.4v


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I really cant believe how well these crucial micron chips overclock.
> 
> Just ran 2200% hci with 2 errors right after 1000%


I've never had much success with mine above ~2800, but I've never used secondary or tertiary timings that loose either.

Might need to give 3200 another go.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> why bother.


Always good to have two or three capable backup systems in case of an EMP attack!


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I have my wife's rig running 2x8GB GSkill "economy" 2133 naked ram on an Impact/6600K @ 3000c14 w/1.425V. I know they could go higher but she is basically PC-illiterate... why bother.


IMO, Facebook is basically unusable below 4k 144hz


----------



## killeragosta

Hi at all!

Sorry for the stupid questions, but...can I run Linux Mint (v.18, Sarah) Live USB in persistent mode for the stress test? (I made it with LinuxLive USB Creator)
It is ok test with this method?

Or is better virtualization directly on windows?

Two hours of Google Stress App are enough to determine a "rock stable OC"?

Thanks in advance!









P.S. Sorry for my horrible english, I'm Italian.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeragosta*
> 
> Sorry for the stupid questions, but...can I run Linux Mint (v.18, Sarah) Live USB in persistent mode for the stress test? (I made it with LinuxLive USB Creator)
> It is ok test with this method?


Stressapptest runs fine from a live USB environment.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeragosta*
> 
> Or is better virtualization directly on windows?


Do you mean running stressapptest in a Linux VM on a Windows host?

That is worse, due to the extra memory used and the overhead of the virtual machine.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> IMO, Facebook is basically unusable below 4k 144hz


lol - she has 4K, but no facebook. Too complicated.








(mainly used for tax prep business and page layout/publisher for her township newsletter... Silence Dogood thing. A Town Supervisor doing sheet like that







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Stressapptest runs fine from a live USB environment.
> Do you mean running stressapptest in a Linux VM on a Windows host?
> 
> That is worse, *due to the extra memory used and the overhead of the virtual machine*.


makes it a tougher test to pass.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeragosta*
> 
> Two hours of Google Stress App are enough to determine a "rock stable OC"?


Hello

I would be a pretty good indication of memory only stability.


----------



## mpbrown2020

Was wondering the chances of getting this G.Skill memory kit: F4-3200C14D-16GTZSW to run at 3600Mhz with the same low timings or would it be best to wait for the F4-3466C14D-16GTZSW to come out.


----------



## 113802

I have this G-Skill 32GB kit running at 3400Mhz, anything higher it doesn't post with the same exact timings.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232317&cm_re=trident_z_32gb-_-20-232-317-_-Product

http://valid.x86.fr/n1ffw1


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mpbrown2020*
> 
> Was wondering the chances of getting this G.Skill memory kit: F4-3200C14D-16GTZSW to run at 3600Mhz with the same low timings or would it be best to wait for the F4-3466C14D-16GTZSW to come out.


3600 on what platform? z170 or x99?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 3600 on what platform? z170 or x99?


Not on X99







. I tried 3450-something in my Strix and no boot possible.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Not on X99
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I tried 3450-something in my Strix and no boot possible.


I can boot 3600 with 32GB, but not much more. 3466 is fine on strap 100. I';ll post up in a few...

3600 with these 3200c14's on z170 is no problem (32GB). 3866 was a no go (code 55 with all the tweaks I know)



no tuning. set primaries and all others on auto, 1.45V. Bandwidth could be tuned up, but it's just not much better (if at all) than 3400c13. 3466c14 also runs at 1.45V

oh yeah, try mode 3.


----------



## mpbrown2020

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 3600 on what platform? z170 or x99?


Sorry, z170 deluxe with 6700k


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I can boot 3600 with 32GB, but not much more. 3466 is fine on strap 100. I';ll post up in a few...
> 
> 3600 with these 3200c14's on z170 is no problem (32GB). 3866 was a no go (code 55 with all the tweaks I know)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no tuning. set primaries and all others on auto, 1.45V. Bandwidth could be tuned up, but it's just not much better (if at all) than 3400c13. 3466c14 also runs at 1.45V
> 
> oh yeah, try mode 3.


Mode 3?







CR3?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Mode 3?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CR3?


Hello

Tweak Mode 3.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Tweak Mode 3.


Ahh! The Third Tab







. Thanks!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Ahh! The Third Tab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Thanks!


huh? in bios, on the Dram timings page, you see Tweak Mode = Auto? change this to Mode 3.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> huh? in bios, on the Dram timings page, you see Tweak Mode = Auto? change this to Mode 3.


Ahh! I thought Praz was referring to MemTweakIt tab 3!


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> huh? in bios, on the Dram timings page, you see Tweak Mode = Auto? change this to Mode 3.


Dang, no such setting in Strix BIOS 0801


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Dang, no such setting in Strix BIOS 0801


really? I couldn;t find in in the manual:


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - understood. You might like the Krieg Math bench tho. It's not over the top like y-prime can be.


Will take a look, though at this point I've got more than a month of heavy use and 24/7 uptime, so
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> really? I couldn;t find in in the manual:


The X99Pro didn't have this last I checked either. Seems to be an RVE only feature entirely.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> really? I couldn;t find in in the manual:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


A picture's worth a thousand words: I think the title "*Rampage* Tweak" tells the story. No such tweak for us mere common folks







.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> A picture's worth a thousand words: I think the title "*Rampage* Tweak" tells the story. No such tweak for us mere common folks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


sorry - it may be. It's is called Maximus Tweak on my z170 board... gotta look on the Impact to see if it has it (I think it does).


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> sorry - it may be. It's is called Maximus Tweak on my z170 board... gotta look on the Impact to see if it has it (I think it does).


On the screen you posted which I take is from the RVE10 the section is titled Extreme Tweak and the setting dropbox is titled Rampage Tweak.


----------



## Silent Scone

That's a ROG feature, your board (and mine) don't have it.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> A picture's worth a thousand words: I think the title "*Rampage* Tweak" tells the story. No such tweak for us mere common folks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I assumed he meant more broadly some "equivalent" setting....


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's a ROG feature, your board (and mine) don't have it.


Well, I do have a ROG, just not a Rampage


----------



## sabishiihito

*DISCLAIMER* By no means am I advocating combining separate 2x8GB kits to make 4x8GB, especially kits that are binned for Z170.*DISCLAIMER*

With that said, this is simply running XMP with no adjustments at all.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Well, I do have a ROG, just not a Rampage


yeah - that's why i thought the strix would have this submenu. oh well.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - that's why i thought the strix would have this submenu. oh well.


I bought the ASUS X99-A II after I figured out it's the same board as the Strix without the bluetooth and wi-fi and saved some bucks.









Oh, and the lighting isn't as fancy.


----------



## tw33k

tw33k--5960X @4.5/4.0---3200Mhz-C16-18-18-38-1T----1.35v---SA 1v---HCI 1000% VCCIN ---1.9v





CPU-Z


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice work


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I bought the ASUS X99-A II after I figured out it's the same board as the Strix without the bluetooth and wi-fi and saved some bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and the lighting isn't as fancy.


That's what I thought at first, I don't use on-board wi-fi and no lights for me. But reading specs and some detailed reviews it appears there is some dimm crcuit differences (T-Topology vs. T-Topology II) and some better components (caps & such). Better heat sinks? I could be wrong ...







.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice work


Thanks mate

Ran an hour of GSAT

tw33k--5960X @4.5/4.0---3200Mhz-C16-18-18-38-1T----1.35v---SA 1v---GSAT 1hour--- VCCIN ---1.9v

 

Had to increase eventual DRAM voltage to 1.4v from 1.35v


----------



## djgar

OK, there are three "dram swizzling" settings in the Strix - any idea what they do? BIOS recommends some be disabled for OC.


----------



## tistou77

With kit Corsair Platinum 3733 17-19-19, you think that 3400 C15 is possible with 1.35v - 1.38v ?

Thanks


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> With kit Corsair Platinum 3733 17-19-19, you think that 3400 C15 is possible with 1.35v - 1.38v ?
> 
> Thanks


I don't know, do you think I'll be able to headbutt my ceiling fan if I stand on one of my favourite leather bound books? This is almost as obscure as the question you are asking. You would need to buy the kit yourself and find out.


----------



## tistou77

Maybe someone with rams with the same characteristics (or same Samsung ICs) have tried








But not possible according to you

What an idea to ask also


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Maybe someone with rams with the same characteristics (or same Samsung ICs) have tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But not possible according to you
> 
> What an idea to ask also


I tried something similar with these, didn't work out ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231951


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I tried something similar with these, didn't work out ...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231951


thanks for your feedback








3400 C16 was good? Or was IMC which limited (with 6900K ?) ?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> thanks for your feedback
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3400 C16 was good? Or was IMC which limited (with 6900K ?) ?


Don't remember exactly, only it couldn't match the 3200/14 which did 3400/14.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Maybe someone with rams with the same characteristics (or same Samsung ICs) have tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But not possible according to you
> 
> What an idea to ask also


Might be an idea to state what platform you are using also. At least that way the question isn't completely pointless.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Don't remember exactly, only it couldn't match the 3200/14 which did 3400/14.


Ok thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> With kit Corsair Platinum 3733 17-19-19, you think that 3400 C15 is possible with 1.35v - 1.38v ?
> 
> Thanks


on z170, yes, On x99... maybe. Why not just get the known GSkill 3200C14's. They run 3400c15, c14, and c13 at <1.4V, 1.425V, and 1.45V respectively. The only other sticks I know will do as well or better on x99 are the GSkill 3600C16's. Why not try the 4000c17s.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> on z170, yes, On x99... maybe. Why not just get the known GSkill 3200C14's. They run 3400c15, c14, and c13 at <1.4V, 1.425V, and 1.45V respectively. The only other sticks I know will do as well or better on x99 are the GSkill 3600C16's. Why not try the 4000c17s.


Ok thanks









This is to test with a 6900K

EDIT : What ram 4000 C17 ?
I have not seen (only C19)


----------



## kx11

so GALAX HOF DDR4 white model rated with a 4000mhz XMP profile arrived yesterday

i'm not an expert overclocker when it comed to memory







so here are some info's


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> so GALAX HOF DDR4 white model rated with a 4000mhz XMP profile arrived yesterday
> 
> i'm not an expert overclocker when it comed to memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so here are some info's
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


At first I thought you were joking... Astock timing config does not work with Broadwell. Use the new memtweakit.
Don;t forget to mention that you have combined two z170 memory kits... correct?
First thing to do is try 3200 c16-18-18-44-1T with 1.35V.


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> At first I thought you were joking... Astock timing config does not work with Broadwell. Use the new memtweakit.
> Don;t forget to mention that you have combined two z170 memory kits... correct?
> First thing to do is try 3200 c16-18-18-44-1T with 1.35V.


how do i know they are z170 kits ?!


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> how do i know they are z170 kits ?!


Hello

1 - They are rated at 4000MHz.

2 - They are available only as single or dual channel. No quad channel kits.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> how do i know they are z170 kits ?!


These are beautiful... hopefully they work at more than SPD on x99. Lots of folks here can help.


----------



## tistou77

Well, no 4000 c17


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Well, no 4000 c17


these run 4000c17 (actually 4000c13 and lower if you know how).








http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231956


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> these run 4000c17 (actually 4000c13 and lower if you know how).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231956


Ok, I was looking for 4000 c17









Probably the same Samsung ICs (but better chips ?) than 3733 c17


----------



## Jpmboy

been running these settings for awhile.. no LT stability testing yet.... 3467c13


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> These are beautiful... hopefully they work at more than SPD on x99. Lots of folks here can help.


memtweakit (the new one ) doesn't show anything


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> These are beautiful... hopefully they work at more than SPD on x99. Lots of folks here can help.


That's just WAY too fashionable
















They don't show up in that link any more - must be sold out and OOP ...


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> That's just WAY too fashionable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't show up in that link any more - must be sold out and OOP ...


What is up with white PCBs being so rare? Like 1-2 motherboards per socket, at _best_!







I wanted to put a white setup in my black case, but it's so rare.









GALAX has found a hidden market.


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> That's just WAY too fashionable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't show up in that link any more - must be sold out and OOP ...


they look good in the dark


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> they look good in the dark


White LEDs on that white HOF GTX 1080 backplate









And people say LEDs are tacky...: teaching: You just gotta get a flow going.


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> White LEDs on that white HOF GTX 1080 backplate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And people say LEDs are tacky...: teaching: You just gotta get a flow going.


you mean air flow ?

it's good , no more than 70c @ 4k 85hz


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> you mean air flow ?
> 
> it's good , no more than 70c @ 4k 85hz


Err, flow, like...design flow. Or a "flowing" theme. Just that things match with the same colors or aesthetics.

But, haha, 70C is dope, too, @ 4K on those cards. And wait, haha, did you actually get two of the GPU braces, that tall towel rod looking thing?


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Err, flow, like...design flow. Or a "flowing" theme. Just that things match with the same colors or aesthetics.
> 
> But, haha, 70C is dope, too, @ 4K on those cards. And wait, haha, did you actually get two of the GPU braces, that tall towel rod looking thing?


the flow thing can be done with XtremeTuner+ only but i don't if it can control the DDR4 sticks glowing while the mobo can be done easily with asus lighting app

the white rod comes with ever HOF gpu so i have 2 of them but i didn't want to install the 2nd one since it'll block the air flow from the top GPU , also 1 rod can handle 2 GPUs i just have to firmly and accurately install the 2nd black strap with all the screws


----------



## PowerK

Is there a way to make HCI MemTest into bootable USB thumb drive ? I bought Deluxe version which comes with Pro (Windows) and ISO (DOS). I've never owned ODD since 2004..


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Is there a way to make HCI MemTest into bootable USB thumb drive ? I bought Deluxe version which comes with Pro (Windows) and ISO (DOS). I've never owned ODD since 2004..


http://hcidesign.com/memtest/manual.html#The%20Pro%20Version


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> http://hcidesign.com/memtest/manual.html#The%20Pro%20Version


There's no mention of USB.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> There's no mention of USB.


You can use Rufus and make a USB, just make sure you make it using the MBR option in Rufus and have CSM enabled or cant boot MBR drives.









Edit: Make a USB from the ISO.

Second edit: When I tried the ISO it took like 8 hours to not even get to 100% on 32GB, it's incredibly slow.









https://rufus.akeo.ie/?locale


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You can use Rufus and make a USB, just make sure you make it using the MBR option in Rufus and have CSM enabled or cant boot MBR drives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Make a USB from the ISO.
> 
> Second edit: When I tried the ISO it took like 8 hours to not even get to 100% on 32GB, it's incredibly slow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://rufus.akeo.ie/?locale


Thanks Kedar.
USB being that slow ? or did you mean CD ?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Thanks Kedar.
> USB being that slow ? or did you mean CD ?


If you boot from USB or CD using the HCI MemTest ISO the test runs really slow, slower the more memory you have. 32GB wouldn't even get to 100% in 7-8 hours even on USB.


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> If you boot from USB or CD using the HCI MemTest ISO the test runs really slow, slower the more memory you have. 32GB wouldn't even get to 100% in 7-8 hours even on USB.


Just made a USB boot drive out of the ISO.
You're right. Extremely slow it's going.
Back to the Windows version. Ha!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> memtweakit (the new one ) doesn't show anything


make sure you have loaded the new Intel ME, and chipset drivers... along with the most recent bios.

@Silent scone - does memtweak it work on your Deluxe II?


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Just made a USB boot drive out of the ISO.
> You're right. Extremely slow it's going.
> Back to the Windows version. Ha!


Try installing Linux mint on a usb stick and running GSAT off that. I've been lead to believe GSAT usually takes less time to find stability issues then other memory checking test, and that it does not suffer from running off of a usb stick.

Try it!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> make sure you have loaded the new Intel ME, and chipset drivers... along with the most recent bios.
> 
> @Silent scone - does memtweak it work on your Deluxe II?


Yes, download the latest one from the RE10 page. I would link it, but i'm on mobile data at the minute and I don't want to lol


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You can use Rufus and make a USB, just make sure you make it using the MBR option in Rufus and have CSM enabled or cant boot MBR drives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Make a USB from the ISO.
> 
> Second edit: When I tried the ISO it took like 8 hours to not even get to 100% on 32GB, it's incredibly slow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://rufus.akeo.ie/?locale


I just burned the ISO to a DVD - works great. I love the way they say you must delete the ISO file once you make the DVD







.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> make sure you have loaded the new Intel ME, and chipset drivers... along with the most recent bios.
> 
> @Silent scone - does memtweak it work on your Deluxe II?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, download the latest one from the RE10 page. I would link it, but i'm on mobile data at the minute and I don't want to lol


Finding the MemTweakIt download in the ROG site is a nightmare. I somehow have one that works on the Strix, I got it from the RVE utilities download, file says v 2.02. In the About of the running executable the Version is blank







.

Oops, forgot the link:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_V_EXTREME/HelpDesk_Download/


----------



## PowerK

HCI MemTest throwing an error around 300% coverage is RAM related, right ?? (From searching this thread, cache related instability usually locks up and/or results in BSOD/reboot).

Corsair DDR4-2400 10-12-12-28 *1T*
http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-platinum-series-32gb-4-x-8gb-ddr4-dram-2400mhz-c10-memory-kit-cmd32gx4m4b2400c10
AIDA64 says memory IC is from SK Hynix.

Trying to get *1T* working & stable.

XMP enabled.
DRAM voltage is at 1.37V (raised from 1.35V)
VCCSA is at 1.13V (raised from 1.12V)
VCCIO is at 1.1V (raised from 1.05V)
6950X @ 4.4 core, 3.7 cache

Should I raise DRAM voltage to 1.38V ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> HCI MemTest throwing an error around 300% coverage is RAM related, right ?? (From searching this thread, cache related instability usually locks up and/or results in BSOD/reboot).
> 
> Corsair DDR4-2400 10-12-12-28 *1T*
> http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-platinum-series-32gb-4-x-8gb-ddr4-dram-2400mhz-c10-memory-kit-cmd32gx4m4b2400c10
> AIDA64 says memory IC is from SK Hynix.
> 
> Trying to get *1T* working & stable.
> 
> XMP enabled.
> DRAM voltage is at 1.37V (raised from 1.35V)
> VCCSA is at 1.13V (raised from 1.12V)
> VCCIO is at 1.1V (raised from 1.05V)
> 6950X @ 4.4 core, 3.7 cache
> 
> Should I raise DRAM voltage to 1.38V ?


you can run Hynix at 1.4 or above if needed. But before doing that. Clear cmos, DO NOT load XMP. set your OC up as you had it for 4.4/3.7 and enter the ram frequency, primary timings and voltage manually. XMP will set value that you have no control over. Good that they ran well on XMP, but to really tune things properly, take control of the settings.

once you enter the basic primary timings (10-12-12-32 (since tRTP will probably be 10 or 8) - 1T and 1.375-1.4V). I would not rely upon XMP to pass HCI memtest.

After you get a reasonably stable 2400, you can try loading a preset for 2400 (or higher). That kit should do at least 2666c12 or even c10 with some "help".


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you can run Hynix at 1.4 or above if needed. But before doing that. Clear cmos, DO NOT load XMP. set your OC up as you had it for 4.4/3.7 and enter the ram frequency, primary timings and voltage manually. XMP will set value that you have no control over. Good that they ran well on XMP, but to really tune things properly, take control of the settings.
> 
> once you enter the basic primary timings (10-12-12-32 (since tRTP will probably be 10 or 8) - 1T and 1.375-1.4V). I would not rely upon XMP to pass HCI memtest.
> 
> After you get a reasonably stable 2400, you can try loading a preset for 2400 (or higher). That kit should do at least 2666c12 or even c10 with some "help".


As usual, thanks for the advice, Jpm. I'll try what you said after work today.
One question. The Corsair spec is 10-12-12-*28* Are you saying that I should manually change the timing to 10-12-12-*32* ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> As usual, thanks for the advice, Jpm. I'll try what you said after work today.
> One question. The Corsair spec is 10-12-12-*28* Are you saying that I should manually change the timing to 10-12-12-*32* ?


tRAs = CAS + tRCD+tRTP (+/-2). THats the min time the ras window needs to be open for all three ops to complete. Values outside this range result in the board/bios/microcode applying a value to correct the timing error - you cannot see what the subbed value is and it can could drift each training at post. I took a guess at tRTP.


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Finding the MemTweakIt download in the ROG site is a nightmare. I somehow have one that works on the Strix, I got it from the RVE utilities download, file says v 2.02. In the About of the running executable the Version is blank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oops, forgot the link:
> 
> http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_V_EXTREME/HelpDesk_Download/


i DL memtweakit from the link above and still nothing

also i installed the chipset drivers (again) from asus support page !!

i'll try more


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> tRAs = CAS + tRCD+tRTP (+/-2). THats the min time the ras window needs to be open for all three ops to complete. Values outside this range result in the board/bios/microcode applying a value to correct the timing error - you cannot see what the subbed value is and it can could drift each training at post. I took a guess at tRTP.


Got it. Thanks.








Currently reading some of DDR4 timing tweak guide on the net.
tRAS = tCL + tRCD + tRP








Just started HCI MemTest 10-12-12-*34* 1T (DDR4-2400 with 1.375V). Fingers crossed.

EDIT : According to many guides on the net, tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRP*
However, according to [email protected] and you, tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRTP*
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?5835-ASUS-Rampage-IV-Extreme-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking.

Which one is correct ?
According to Mem TweakIt, tRTP = 9 for my Corsair modules.

Hence, tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRP* = 10 + 12 + *12* = 34 and
tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRTP* = 10 + 12 + *9* = 31

EDIT #2 : Just interrupted HCI MemTest. Changed tRAS from 34 to 31.
Going for 10-12-12-31 1T.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> i DL memtweakit from the link above and still nothing
> 
> also i installed the chipset drivers (again) from asus support page !!
> 
> i'll try more


I had the exact same thing happen. The one from here http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-RAMPAGE-V-EDITION-10/HelpDesk_Download/ worked for me


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Got it. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently reading some of DDR4 timing tweak guide on the net.
> tRAS = tCL + tRCD + tRP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just started HCI MemTest 10-12-12-*34* 1T (DDR4-2400 with 1.375V). Fingers crossed.
> 
> EDIT : According to many guides on the net, tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRP*
> However, according to [email protected] and you, tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRTP*
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?5835-ASUS-Rampage-IV-Extreme-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking.
> 
> Which one is correct ?
> According to Mem TweakIt, tRTP = 9 for my Corsair modules.
> 
> Hence, tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRP* = 10 + 12 + *12* = 34 and
> tRAS = tCL + tRCD + *tRTP* = 10 + 12 + *9* = 31
> 
> EDIT #2 : Just interrupted HCI MemTest. Changed tRAS from 34 to 31.
> Going for 10-12-12-31 1T.


It is tRTP, not tRP. tRTP defines the delay between a read and precharge (tRP). tRAS defines the minimum amount of time it will take to latch the row, perform CAS, and the delay til the precharge command can be sent to close the open row. The sum of tRP and tRAS is tRC, which defines the delay til the next tRCD command can be sent to open a new row. If tRAS was the sum of tRCD+tCL+tRP, then there would be no need to define a value for tRC. Plus, the precharge command would be sent without delay after CAS, which would be invalid to say the least. The existence of these accumulative and individual parameters is so that things can be scheduled in sequence while allowing each electrical function that is part of the memory transaction to be configured to an optimal value for sake of flexibility.

A timing table here shows tRAS:

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/3851/Back%20to%20Back%20Burst%20Read%20with%20Page%20Close.png?_ga=1.128498191.2035876828.1461651401

You can see that tRP is outside the tRAS window.

-Raja


----------



## Jpmboy

yeah... what he said.


----------



## [email protected]

Added a bit about the required delay between CAS and tRP.


----------



## PowerK

Raja and Jpm,
Thanks.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I had the exact same thing happen. The one from here http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-RAMPAGE-V-EDITION-10/HelpDesk_Download/ worked for me


Weird, they're the same download ...








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah... what he said.


Yeah, I knew that ...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah... what he said.


tRAs = CAS + tRCD+tRTP (+/-2)

So If I'm 12-12-12-32 1T - 5 tRTP I can set tRAS to 27 fine if it's stable, correct, Jpmboy? I passed 2 hours of stressapptest at that.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> tRAs = CAS + tRCD+tRTP (+/-2)
> 
> So If I'm 12-12-12-32 1T - 5 tRTP I can set tRAS to 27 fine if it's stable, correct, Jpmboy? I passed 2 hours of stressapptest at that.


yes! 27 to 31.


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I had the exact same thing happen. The one from here http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-RAMPAGE-V-EDITION-10/HelpDesk_Download/ worked for me


finally that works


----------



## kx11

ok so i typed the timing that i read on the memory sticks



is this alright ?!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yes! 27 to 31.


Is there any other rules we need to know, Jpmboy?

I know the tFAW 4x rule, other then that, not sure.









And I checked the memory tweak link in OP, couldn't see anything obvious.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> ok so i typed the timing that i read on the memory sticks
> 
> 
> 
> is this alright ?!


Alright?








lol - that's really bad for 3200. Look at some of the timings shown in the OP. Try 3200 c14-16-16-40-2t all else on auto, 1.375V. Best o look at the pre-sets provided in the board's bios and see what will post at a set voltage of 1.375-1.4V.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Is there any other rules we need to know, Jpmboy?
> 
> I know the tFAW 4x rule, other then that, not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I checked the memory tweak link in OP, couldn't see anything obvious.


Yeah, plenty that I don't know, but you have the main ones.


----------



## kx11

the board bios doesn't do much above 2666mhz

what does 2t-1t means ?

i'm on 1.4v


----------



## PowerK

Ran HCI MemTest overnight.
Memory errors found. One error each in two different instances (out of total 20 intances) around 150% coverage.
An interesting thing is after those two errors around 150% coverage, MemTest went on to 1200% coverage without additional errors.

Timings = 10-12-12-31 1T (DDR4-2400)
DRAM Voltage = 1.375V
VCCSA = 1.15V
VCCIO = 1.096V
LLC = Level 5

Raise DRAM voltage or SA/IO ?
Or all together?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> the board bios doesn't do much above 2666mhz
> 
> what does 2t-1t means ?
> 
> i'm on 1.4v


it's not the board. T = CR = command rate
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Ran HCI MemTest overnight.
> Memory errors found. One error each in two different instances (out of total 20 intances) around 150% coverage.
> An interesting thing is after those two errors around 150% coverage, MemTest went on to 1200% coverage without additional errors.
> 
> Timings = 10-12-12-31 1T (DDR4-2400)
> DRAM Voltage = 1.375V
> VCCSA = 1.15V
> VCCIO = 1.096V
> LLC = Level 5
> 
> Raise DRAM voltage or SA/IO ?
> Or all together?


That is a 2400 kit... it's unlikely it needs more vdimm. Does the case have good air flow. Sticks getting hot?


----------



## kx11

getting better



this is on 1T


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> getting better
> 
> 
> 
> this is on 1T


keep at it... try 16-18-18-44-1T

post up the SPD tab of CPUZ


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> That is a 2400 kit... it's unlikely it needs more vdimm. Does the case have good air flow. Sticks getting hot?


Case airflow is very good.
Air conditioned room.


----------



## kx11

this is 3400mhz on 1.45v , 1T


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> this is 3400mhz on 1.45v , 1T


time to tighten up the timings. cas @ 17 is way to high for x99/3400.

test stability before going any further... it's always best to find a stable base to work from . 3200 or 2666 would be good starting points


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> test stability before going any further... it's always best to find a stable base to work from . 3200 or 2666 would be good starting points


I agree. This was for my CPU OC, but I like to organize OC settings & results in an Excel chart. I always had a terrible memory for voltages I had changed recently.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> I agree. This was for my CPU OC, but I like to organize OC settings & results in an Excel chart. I always had a terrible memory for voltages I had changed recently.


lo - the Notes" column says it all.


----------



## kx11

couldn't get a stable 3400mhz timing

i'll test even more tomorrow


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> couldn't get a stable 3400mhz timing
> 
> i'll test even more tomorrow


word of advice... unstable ram, and/or pushing ram to stable timings should be done on a spare OS install at best, or at least with a solid IMAGE saved just in case. Ram can corrupt an OS install (and completely) without any signs that it is doing so.


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Ran HCI MemTest overnight.
> Memory errors found. One error each in two different instances (out of total 20 intances) around 150% coverage.
> An interesting thing is after those two errors around 150% coverage, MemTest went on to 1200% coverage without additional errors.
> 
> Timings = 10-12-12-31 1T (DDR4-2400)
> DRAM Voltage = 1.375V
> VCCSA = 1.15V
> VCCIO = 1.096V
> LLC = Level 5
> 
> Raise DRAM voltage or SA/IO ?
> Or all together?


According Broadwell-E Overclocking Guide from ASUS,
Quote:


> *VCCIO CPU 1.05V Voltage*: This rail is for the IO transceivers within the CPU. Its primary impact is on memory stability, though it usually does not need to be increased as much as the System Agent voltage. Setting this rail ~0.05V lower than the System Agent Voltage is often sufficient to stabilize memory frequency.


I'll try bumping VCCIO up a bit later today.


----------



## mpbrown2020

My G.Skill kits timings on the sticker are 3600 C16-16-16-36-2t @1.35V and am currently running 3600 C15-15-15-35-1t @1.40V on Z170 Deluxe with 6700K. All other memory timings are auto. tRTP=12 according to memtweakit. So the math would be tRAS = CL(15) + tRCD(15)+ tRTP(12) = 42, but the module says "35." Should I lower tRTP to like 4-8 or raise tRAS to 42? How low can tRTP go running at 3600Mhz?


----------



## PowerK

By the way, is Google stressapp faster at finding memory errors ?
I ask because I find HCI MemTest slow and I'd like something faster to find RAM OC stability.

EDIT : Also, do you guys temporarily disable page file when you run HCI MemTest instances in Windows ?
Some of the test data is likely being evicted to the page file, or pushing other data out, and you could be getting false positives from some sort of time out ?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2228264
http://www.overclock.net/t/1548751/hci-memtest-only-errors-when-testing-more-than-available-ram/0_20


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> According Broadwell-E Overclocking Guide from ASUS,
> I'll try bumping VCCIO up a bit later today.


I'm running 1.08 vccio, 1.08 VSA. Definitely try raising VCCIO.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mpbrown2020*
> 
> My G.Skill kits timings on the sticker are 3600 C16-16-16-36-2t @1.35V and am currently running 3600 C15-15-15-35-1t @1.40V on Z170 Deluxe with 6700K. All other memory timings are auto. tRTP=12 according to memtweakit. So the math would be tRAS = CL(15) + tRCD(15)+ tRTP(12) = 42, but the module says "35." Should I lower tRTP to like 4-8 or raise tRAS to 42? How low can tRTP go running at 3600Mhz?


lowering tRTP will likely require additional voltage (and it does speed things up some). It's a long story.. but there is no risk to a vendor to use a tRAS value below the required time window since the bios.MC will correct it.. to a point. Waaay too low and the system will fail to post or crash if it does post.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> By the way, is Google stressapp faster at finding memory errors ?
> I ask because I find HCI MemTest slow and I'd like something faster to find RAM OC stability.
> 
> EDIT : Also, do you guys temporarily disable page file when you run HCI MemTest instances in Windows ?
> Some of the test data is likely being evicted to the page file, or pushing other data out, and you could be getting false positives from some sort of time out ?
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2228264
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1548751/hci-memtest-only-errors-when-testing-more-than-available-ram/0_20


Absolutely. GSAT is mandatory for 32GB and up because it is much faster at finding memory issues. No need to disable page file with HCI memtest. I never have.


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> By the way, is Google stressapp faster at finding memory errors ?
> I ask because I find HCI MemTest slow and I'd like something faster to find RAM OC stability.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Try installing Linux mint on a usb stick and running GSAT off that. I've been lead to believe GSAT usually takes less time to find stability issues then other memory checking test, and that it does not suffer from running off of a usb stick.
> 
> Try it!


Tried to tell you two pages ago!


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Tried to tell you two pages ago!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibraslap*
> 
> Try installing Linux mint on a usb stick and running GSAT off that. I've been lead to believe GSAT usually takes less time to find stability issues then other memory checking test, and that it does not suffer from running off of a usb stick.
> 
> Try it!


Ha! I must have missed this. Cheers, vibraslap.


----------



## kx11

35 minutes stable AIDA64 stress test


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> 35 minutes stable AIDA64 stress test


Is AIDA64 memory stress test useful at all?
I have not tried ADIA64's memory stress test. However, from my "limited" experience with CPU stress test and cache stress test of AIDA64, it doesn't seem to stress components hard enough to reveal instabilities with overclock. (AIDA's FPU stress test was good one to see cooling system capabilities).
Passed AIDA64's CPU stress test as well as cache stress test easily but failed in RealBench and Prime95... I've experienced this. (Perhaps, some of you experienced the opposite?)


----------



## PowerK

Made a USB bootable drive with Mint Linux iso. It gives unknown chipset error and screen goes blank when it boots up on my X99 system.

The same USB drive boots fine and I could start GSAT on my Z170 (6700K) system as well as P67 (2600K) system.

For my X99 (6950X) system, no choice but to stick with HCI MemTest.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Made a USB bootable drive with Mint Linux iso. It gives unknown chipset error and screen goes blank when it boots up on my X99 system.
> 
> The same USB drive boots fine and I could start GSAT on my Z170 (6700K) system as well as P67 (2600K) system.
> 
> For my X99 (6950X) system, no choice but to stick with HCI MemTest.


I had the trouble, made a 64 bit Puppy Linux USB with Rufus https://rufus.akeo.ie/ and http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup64-6.0.5/tahr64-6.0.5.iso using MBR option, enabled CSM , enabled Legacy O/S support in BIOS and made sure USB BIOS settings were good so I could boot from it.

Opened Puppy Package Manager, searched for stressapptest, installed it, problem solved.









Mint ISO would crash with my Titan X, Puppy worked.









Edit: Either that or run HCI MemTest 15 hours for 128GB RAM.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> 35 minutes stable AIDA64 stress test


okay - the settings are not completely "bollocks" (sp?)

Keep tightening the primary timings (reduce the first three by 1 notch) and test again. You only need to check the Memory test. Once it fails AID64 Memory test, post back to bios and go back to where it passed the test. Now you have settings to put to a real test like HCI or GSAT.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Is AIDA64 memory stress test useful at all?
> I have not tried ADIA64's memory stress test. However, from my "limited" experience with CPU stress test and cache stress test of AIDA64, it doesn't seem to stress components hard enough to reveal instabilities with overclock. (AIDA's FPU stress test was good one to see cooling system capabilities).
> Passed AIDA64's CPU stress test as well as cache stress test easily but failed in RealBench and Prime95... I've experienced this. (Perhaps, some of you experienced the opposite?)


It is good as a quick test to separate bootable from bootable-but-bollocks.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Made a USB bootable drive with Mint Linux iso. It gives unknown chipset error and screen goes blank when it boots up on my X99 system.
> 
> The same USB drive boots fine and I could start GSAT on my Z170 (6700K) system as well as P67 (2600K) system.
> 
> For my X99 (6950X) system, no choice but to stick with HCI MemTest.


disable SLI and switch off one GFX card with the PCIE switch.


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I had the trouble, made a 64 bit Puppy Linux USB with Rufus https://rufus.akeo.ie/ and http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup64-6.0.5/tahr64-6.0.5.iso using MBR option, enabled CSM , enabled Legacy O/S support in BIOS and made sure USB BIOS settings were good so I could boot from it.
> 
> Opened Puppy Package Manager, searched for stressapptest, installed it, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mint ISO would crash with my Titan X, Puppy worked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Either that or run HCI MemTest 15 hours for 128GB RAM.


Thanks, Kedar. I'll try that next time


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> disable SLI and switch off one GFX card with the PCIE switch.


Thanks, Jpm.
HCI MemTest is running for 2 hours now. (I raised VCCIO to 1.112V)
I'll disable SLI by switching it off from motherboard, and try GSAT after my system passes HCI MemTest 1000% coverage.
How long should I run GSAT after HCI MemTest? 2-3 hours?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Thanks, Jpm.
> HCI MemTest is running for 2 hours now. (I raised VCCIO to 1.112V)
> I'll disable SLI by switching it off from motherboard, and try GSAT after my system passes HCI MemTest 1000% coverage.
> How long should I run GSAT after HCI MemTest? 2-3 hours?


1-2 hours is plenty... remember, too much stress testing is... stressful.


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 1-2 hours is plenty... remember, too much stress testing is... stressful.


Yes, sir. ;-)


----------



## djgar

Is there a point in running HCI MemTest if you run GSAT?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Is there a point in running HCI MemTest if you run GSAT?


HCI will find cache instability if you get random freezes.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> HCI will find cache instability if you get random freezes.


But if I do stress test with RealBench I'll also find freezing instabilities plus other situations. It seems to me GSAT + RB gives me more than GSAT + HCI, and just as much as GSAT + HCI + RB. I may be wrong ...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> But if I do stress test with RealBench I'll also find freezing instabilities plus other situations. It seems to me GSAT + RB gives me more than GSAT + HCI, and just as much as GSAT + HCI + RB. I may be wrong ...


I've read here RealBench doesn't really test cache, if you get freezes with no reboots In HCI then it's cache instability. AIDA Extreme cache stability test is good too.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> But if I do stress test with RealBench I'll also find freezing instabilities plus other situations. It seems to me GSAT + RB gives me more than GSAT + HCI, and just as much as GSAT + HCI + RB. I may be wrong ...
> 
> 
> 
> I've read here RealBench doesn't really test cache, if you get freezes with no reboots In HCI then it's cache instability. AIDA Extreme cache stability test is good too.
Click to expand...

How much do these software (RealBench, AIDA64, MemTest) write to the HDD/SSD during stress testing? It seems my data written on my SSD has gone up considerably since I started using MemTest.


----------



## Praz

Hello

If noticeable amount of writes are occurring when using either HCI or GSAT the programs are not being configured correctly.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lo - the Notes" column says it all.


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> okay - the settings are not completely "bollocks" (sp?)
> 
> Keep tightening the primary timings (reduce the first three by 1 notch) and test again. You only need to check the Memory test. Once it fails AID64 Memory test, post back to bios and go back to where it passed the test. Now you have settings to put to a real test like HCI or GSAT.
> It is good as a quick test to separate bootable from bootable-but-bollocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> disable SLI and switch off one GFX card with the PCIE switch.


when i put 14 in CL it freezes the OS so it's gotta be 15+ and the other 2 lines are always higher by +1


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> when i put 14 in CL it freezes the OS so it's gotta be 15+ and the other 2 lines are always higher by +1


Are those 4GB sticks our 8GB sticks ?


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Are those 4GB sticks our 8GB sticks ?


8gb , 4sticks


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> 8gb , 4sticks


I think those kits are better at higher frequency's rather than lower and tighter timings.

i would try for 3400Mhz or 3466Mhz at 16-18-18-38-1T or possibly 15-17-17-38-1T

Not sure if you tried that already


----------



## kx11

i was thinking the same way , i think i tried the 2nd timing you posted , good but didn't last long before the OS started lagging in Chrome web browsing


----------



## cekim

Been running my 128G (8x16g) gskill [email protected] kit at 1.35v 100MHz bclk for the past 2 months without issue with plenty of heavy, all core/thread load (BW-E 6950x 4.4/3.7 RVE "classic"). That is the stable config that passes everything including GSAT for 1hr+.

3200 CAS 14 @ 1.37v passes everything but a full hour of GSAT. It gets a few single bit errors that clear on "re-read" in the last 10 minutes (at which point the heat spreaders are ~55-57C according to my IR thermometer... So, it seems "close"...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Been running my 128G (8x16g) gskill [email protected] kit at 1.35v 100MHz bclk for the past 2 months without issue with plenty of heavy, all core/thread load (BW-E 6950x 4.4/3.7 RVE "classic"). That is the stable config that passes everything including GSAT for 1hr+.
> 
> 3200 CAS 14 @ 1.37v passes everything but a full hour of GSAT. It gets a few single bit errors that clear on "re-read" in the last 10 minutes (at which point the heat spreaders are ~55-57C according to my IR thermometer... So, it seems "close"...


With my ASUS X99-A II and my 5960x my Corsair LPX 3000 will only do 2666 on 100 strap but with really tight timings 12-12-12-27 1T and the sub timings optimized with most using the 2133 XMP sub timings I manually set that at that when booted 2133 using XMP and most things on Auto. I get almost 78k in AIDA read, over 72k write but I'm at 4.7GHZ CPU, 4.4 cache.









No amount of tweaking can I get 3200 no HCI errors on 1T or even 2T.









I'm motivated to give it another try but timings are so good at 2666MHZ not sure 17-17-17-37 2T or whatever I can do would beat it in AIDA.









Edit: I RMA'd my Rampage V Extreme so waiting to hear back, here's hoping.


----------



## stargate125645

I managed to get my dual channel RAM to operate in quad channel 3200MHz 16-18-18-38-1T with 4.6 core and 4.4 cache. I'll try higher RAM frequencies for shiggles, but I'm getting a quad channel kit on Friday so hopefully I'll get better cooperation out of those since they are tested to be quad channel. This is also the reason I didn't try to find an in-between after 16-16-16-36-1T did not work.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> If noticeable amount of writes are occurring when using either HCI or GSAT the programs are not being configured correctly.


Seeing as how HCI MemTest has no configurability that I can see in the Windows version (edit: and I didn't change any settings), you'll have to be more specific... Best I can figure is that I was using too much RAM with the testing and the OS had no room to breathe.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Best I can figure is that I was using too much RAM with the testing and the OS had no room to breathe.


Hello

^^ This


----------



## djgar

I finally got my TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ kit and took me a bit to get 3400 14-14-14-32CR1 tweaked @ 1.38v (Aida reads 1.37) to pass 80 min. GSAT,

CPU 4600 @ 1.405v, cache 3800 @ 1.355v, vccsa @ 1.2v, vccin @ 1.980 (Aida reads 2.0), vccio @ 1.15v.

Still need to RealBench it (just did a 15 min. sanity check run).





Scone, no need to register


----------



## PowerK

Passed 1000% coverage of HCI MemTest.

Just started GSAT with a following command

Code:



Code:


stressapptest -W -s 7200 --pause_delay 7300

I intend to run it for 2 hours.

On Terminal window, it says.. "Log: Seconds remaining xxxx" and the xxxx (seconds) keeps decreasing. I figure this means stress test is going good.

Does GSAT prompt errors (if any) during test? Or do I need to check log file when test finishes?


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Passed 1000% coverage of HCI MemTest.
> 
> Just started GSAT with a following command
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> stressapptest -W -s 7200 --pause_delay 7300
> 
> I intend to run it for 2 hours.
> 
> On Terminal window, it says.. "Log: Seconds remaining xxxx" and the xxxx (seconds) keeps decreasing. I figure this means stress test is going good.
> 
> Does GSAT prompt errors (if any) during test? Or do I need to check log file when test finishes?


Never mind. GSAT 2 hour quick session passed.


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I finally got my TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ kit and took me a bit to get 3400 14-14-14-32CR1 tweaked @ 1.38v (Aida reads 1.37) to pass 80 min. GSAT,
> 
> CPU 4600 @ 1.405v, cache 3800 @ 1.355v, vccsa @ 1.2v, vccin @ 1.980 (Aida reads 2.0), vccio @ 1.15v.
> 
> Still need to RealBench it (just did a 15 min. sanity check run).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scone, no need to register


4.6 core is very nice!
Is 1.405V vcore ok for 24/7 usage?
Please let us know how you get on with stability tests such as RealBench, Prime95 and OCCT.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Passed 1000% coverage of HCI MemTest.
> 
> Just started GSAT with a following command
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> stressapptest -W -s 7200 --pause_delay 7300
> 
> I intend to run it for 2 hours.
> 
> On Terminal window, it says.. "Log: Seconds remaining xxxx" and the xxxx (seconds) keeps decreasing. I figure this means stress test is going good.
> 
> Does GSAT prompt errors (if any) during test? Or do I need to check log file when test finishes?


Yes, the errors will appear at the instance they occur, and will be flagged by number of errors at the end of the test.


----------



## stargate125645

Last night I tested 4.625GHz core and 4.375GHz cache (strap of 125) with 3333MHz RAM at 16-18-18-38-1T (same as my stable 3200MHz timings, oddly enough) to be stable with 1.45V on the RAM. I'm excited to see what the quad channel kit will be able to do!


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> With my ASUS X99-A II and my 5960x my Corsair LPX 3000 will only do 2666 on 100 strap but with really tight timings 12-12-12-27 1T and the sub timings optimized with most using the 2133 XMP sub timings I manually set that at that when booted 2133 using XMP and most things on Auto. I get almost 78k in AIDA read, over 72k write but I'm at 4.7GHZ CPU, 4.4 cache.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No amount of tweaking can I get 3200 no HCI errors on 1T or even 2T.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm motivated to give it another try but timings are so good at 2666MHZ not sure 17-17-17-37 2T or whatever I can do would beat it in AIDA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I RMA'd my Rampage V Extreme so waiting to hear back, here's hoping.


I saw similar issues with this same board and ram running with a 5960x. It struggled mightily to even get 3000. Though the cache could run at 4.2 at +.200 offset and 4.4 @ 1.3 (core runs [email protected])


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> 4.6 core is very nice!
> Is 1.405V vcore ok for 24/7 usage?
> Please let us know how you get on with stability tests such as RealBench, Prime95 and OCCT.


I think the 1.405 vcore is fine for my 24x7, since most of the time it will be lower, but the 1.98 vccin worries me - it seems to deliver 2.00 according to Aida which is into the purple zone. I'm going to use 14-15-14 for 24x7 which lets me get vccin down to 1.97 and vcache to below 1.35 with little actual loss - the ever-present symptoms of diminishing returns


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ This!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I think the 1.405 vcore is fine for my 24x7, since most of the time it will be lower, but the 1.98 vccin worries me - it seems to deliver 2.00 according to Aida which is into the purple zone. I'm going to use 14-15-14 for 24x7 which lets me get vccin down to 1.97 and vcache to below 1.35 with little actual loss - the ever-present symptoms of diminishing returns


1.405Vcore ??


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Last night I tested 4.625GHz core and 4.375GHz cache (strap of 125) with 3333MHz RAM at 16-18-18-38-1T (same as my stable 3200MHz timings, oddly enough) to be stable with 1.45V on the RAM. I'm excited to see what the quad channel kit will be able to do!


What's your Vcore and Vccin for Core=4.6GHz ?
Core temperatures and CPU Package temperature under Aida64 pr Realbench ?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> 1.405Vcore ??


Yes







. It's in adaptive mode so it doesn't get there all that often ...


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Last night I tested 4.625GHz core and 4.375GHz cache (strap of 125) with 3333MHz RAM at 16-18-18-38-1T (same as my stable 3200MHz timings, oddly enough) to be stable with 1.45V on the RAM. I'm excited to see what the quad channel kit will be able to do!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your Vcore and Vccin for Core=4.6GHz ?
> Core temperatures and CPU Package temperature under Aida64 pr Realbench ?
Click to expand...

Vcore is 1.26V, VCCIN is only 1.9V. If I use a strap of 100, I can drop Vcore to 1.23V. Package temperatures reach 80, but I also have an air cooler and a high ambient room temperature of 27C.


----------



## mpbrown2020

When switching different memory modules are you supposed to clear cmos or load optimized defaults? Whats generally the best practice? Z170 platform 6700k


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mpbrown2020*
> 
> When switching different memory modules are you supposed to clear cmos or load optimized defaults? Whats generally the best practice? Z170 platform 6700k


I recall Raja from ASUS stating the you should always clear cmos to ensure correct memory training is re-initiated whenever reconfiguring memory on rheir mobos.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> I recall Raja from ASUS stating the you should always clear cmos to ensure correct memory training is re-initiated whenever reconfiguring memory on rheir mobos.


not really necessary, a cold boot or restart will retrain unless you have it disabled in bios.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Vcore is 1.26V, VCCIN is only 1.9V. If I use a strap of 100, I can drop Vcore to 1.23V. Package temperatures reach 80, but I also have an air cooler and a high ambient room temperature of 27C.


This is really a good Package temp if we consider your room temperature, your Vcore and your cooler.

At 27°C room temperature, I reach 83°C-84°C on Package at 1.27VCore/4.5GHz with my NH-D15 in Aida64 "CPU+FPU+Cache+Memory".
My cores are at 82°C max in same conditions.
NH-D15 and NH-D15S are really good air-coolers


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Vcore is 1.26V, VCCIN is only 1.9V. If I use a strap of 100, I can drop Vcore to 1.23V. Package temperatures reach 80, but I also have an air cooler and a high ambient room temperature of 27C.
> 
> 
> 
> This is really a good Package temp if we consider your room temperature, your Vcore and your cooler.
> 
> At 27°C room temperature, I reach 83°C-84°C on Package at 1.27VCore/4.5GHz with my NH-D15 in Aida64 "CPU+FPU+Cache+Memory".
> My cores are at 82°C max in same conditions.
> NH-D15 and NH-D15S are really good air-coolers
Click to expand...

In all honesty, if I let things sit for awhile (hours on end), CoreTemp will eventually start giving me low-mid 80s as the room temperature ambient gets ridiculous and rises above 27C. When I begin the stress test, I get middle 70s C as the temperature in the room is closer to 24C. After an hour or so of RealBench, room temperature is right around 27C and CoreTemp gives 80-82 max. I basically have my computer in the worst room possible in the house for thermals, unfortunately. I was actually pondering reseating my heat sink this weekend to try to lower temperatures a degrees or two, but maybe it wouldn't be worthwhile. I did get a second fan delivered today with my new RAM kit, so I will effectively have the NH-D15 capability (maybe benefit me 1 degree).


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> In all honesty, if I let things sit for awhile (hours on end), CoreTemp will eventually start giving me low-mid 80s as the room temperature ambient gets ridiculous and rises above 27C. When I begin the stress test, I get middle 70s C as the temperature in the room is closer to 24C. After an hour or so of RealBench, room temperature is right around 27C and CoreTemp gives 80-82 max. I basically have my computer in the worst room possible in the house for thermals, unfortunately. I was actually pondering reseating my heat sink this weekend to try to lower temperatures a degrees or two, but maybe it wouldn't be worthwhile. I did get a second fan delivered today with my new RAM kit, so I will effectively have the NH-D15 capability (maybe benefit me 1 degree).


If you try aida64 CPU+FPU+cache+memory, you Will get 4C to 5C more on cores and package.


----------



## stargate125645

I don't remember my temperatures increasing with those settings on AIDA64. I do know I cannot do FPU-only. I may reseat my heat sink for shiggles anyway since I'm opening things up for the new RAM kit.


----------



## cookiesowns

Anyone know what type of instability will usually cause GSAT to hang on the "pausing threads, and resuming to cause power spike"?

No errors prior to getting there. System still otherwise responsive. I can kill GSAT and re run.

Live USB disk


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Anyone know what type of instability will usually cause GSAT to hang on the "pausing threads, and resuming to cause power spike"?
> 
> No errors prior to getting there. System still otherwise responsive. I can kill GSAT and re run.
> 
> Live USB disk


Hello

Previously posted:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Run GSAT with power spiking disabled if it is hanging.


----------



## vibraslap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Anyone know what type of instability will usually cause GSAT to hang on the "pausing threads, and resuming to cause power spike"?
> 
> No errors prior to getting there. System still otherwise responsive. I can kill GSAT and re run.
> 
> Live USB disk


In my experience this is normal behavior for GSAT, it usually resumes normal countdown readout on the next power spike(~10 minutes ish). I would let it sit until for the testing period and not kill the process if the system is still responsive.

Just my experience however, I see Praz has a different opinion above me, and I would certainly not claim to be more knowledgeable on the subject then him.


----------



## Silent Scone

The idea of the spike is to quickly load and unload the memory whilst causing a current ramp. There seems to be a few conditions where the test will hang at the power spikes for extended periods, and the test completion time can be delayed. It's better to just disable these in this case


----------



## Praz

Hello

A look at the log will show there is a coding bug when used with some configurations. When this occurs it is best to disable the power spiking as no testing is being performed during this extended time.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> A look at the log will show there is a coding bug when used with some configurations. When this occurs it is best to disable the power spiking as no testing is being performed during this extended time.


During my spike-induced periods where no time logs are being displayed the System Monitor shows 99% CPU for stressapptest - you mean to say no testing is being done? What is it doing?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> During my spike-induced periods where no time logs are being displayed the System Monitor shows 99% CPU for stressapptest - you mean to say no testing is being done? What is it doing?


Trying to resume the test lol


----------



## superkyle1721

Hey guys I'm back!! Finally moved and setup with my new job. Going to spend the day tweaking my 3600 CL15 ram. Wish me luck hoping for a good set!


----------



## superkyle1721

Welp that was short lived. Tried setting CR1 at XMP timings entered manually and code 41. Tried using Maximus tweak 1 and 2. Set dram voltage to 1.5V VCCIO to 1.225V and SA to 1.25V. Even tried setting tRDWR all to 15 to match CL even though it's not above 3600. Still code 41 and once 55. What am I missing? Guess it won't work on CR1? What about dimm slots on the hero board...any difference between A bank and B bank?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Welp that was short lived. Tried setting CR1 at XMP timings entered manually and code 41. Tried using Maximus tweak 1 and 2. Set dram voltage to 1.5V VCCIO to 1.225V and SA to 1.25V. Even tried setting tRDWR all to 15 to match CL even though it's not above 3600. Still code 41 and once 55. What am I missing? Guess it won't work on CR1? What about dimm slots on the hero board...any difference between A bank and B bank?


I was wondering if I should have gone for the 3600-15 instead of the 3200-14 ...

Those voltages seem kind of high ... plus as has been mentioned, more is not always better ...


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I was wondering if I should have gone for the 3600-15 instead of the 3200-14 ...
> 
> Those voltages seem kind of high ... plus as has been mentioned, more is not always better ...


Yeah voltages are a bit high but nothing I would say is alarming for testing. I started low and worked my way up sequentially with each failed boot so I didn't just jump to the max I felt comfortable running. Odd that the b-die doesn't want to run in CR1 though.


----------



## MR-e

When I was tuning my memory, 55 would sometimes come up and would be resolved by bumping VCCSA a few notches. Not sure what 41 is though, did not encounter that.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Trying to resume the test lol










OK, it's stuck doing something not actually testing







.

So the -w introduces more elaborate stressing. Is the power spiking the only thing it adds, or does it add other elaborations? Since I wasn't sure, I added a pause delay just larger than the test duration so I might get any additional stress it might add without the spiking, or is that the same as just removing the -w?.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, it's stuck doing something not actually testing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So the -w introduces more elaborate stressing. Is the power spiking the only thing it adds, or does it add other elaborations? Since I wasn't sure, I added a pause delay just larger than the test duration so I might get any additional stress it might add without the spiking, or is that the same as just removing the -w?.


Hello

"-W" uses a more CPU stressful memory copy test. The argument has no bearing on the power spiking.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> "-W" uses a more CPU stressful memory copy test. The argument has no bearing on the power spiking.


Thanks, Praz. So if I'm getting considerable periods of time recovering from the spiking it makes sense to remove the spiking, one way being through the period spec:

stressapptest -s 4800 -W --pause_delay 4850

This worked fine for me. Would it add something to have one spike event for extra credit, e.g.:

stressapptest -s 6000 -W --pause_delay 4800

which should recover before the end but at least 80 minutes of testing, plus whatever it gets after the spike recovery?

I never seem to get an error from the spiking, just the useless recovery period, so maybe it's not worth it.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> When I was tuning my memory, 55 would sometimes come up and would be resolved by bumping VCCSA a few notches. Not sure what 41 is though, did not encounter that.


Code 55 can be many things but typically is solved by biking up some voltage. More often than not dram voltage bump will fix it. Code 41 is caused typically by too tight tertiary timings. I've been practicing with other kits so I do have some knowledge but for some reason my sample doesn't like cr1


----------



## cookiesowns

Figured I ask in here vs the Broadwell-E thread.

Anyone know some good 32GB or 64GB kits @ 3200C14+ for X99 on BW-E?

I've been looking at the TridentZ's, and have 2 3200C14 kits for a work build I'm doing, but my own personal system is still on weak 2666C13 Hynix's.

I've read somewhere here that BW-E on the new X99 V2 asus boards like all 8 dimm slots to be populated in order to get maximum performance? Has anyone tried 4x16GB dbl sided vs 8x8GB single sided e-die and compared numbers?

What about the G.Skill 3466C16 or 3600C17 kits? Will they be able to do 3200C14-14-14 tight?

Here are the kits I've been looking at:

First pick, as I have some Amazon GC's

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-4x8GB-PC4-27700-CMU32GX4M4C3466C16/dp/B01HKF42JC/

Or these:

32GB...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232348

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232369

64GB...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232349

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232347

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232368


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Figured I ask in here vs the Broadwell-E thread.
> 
> Anyone know some good 32GB or 64GB kits @ 3200C14+ for X99 on BW-E?
> 
> I've been looking at the TridentZ's, and have 2 3200C14 kits for a work build I'm doing, but my own personal system is still on weak 2666C13 Hynix's.
> 
> I've read somewhere here that BW-E on the new X99 V2 asus boards like all 8 dimm slots to be populated in order to get maximum performance? Has anyone tried 4x16GB dbl sided vs 8x8GB single sided e-die and compared numbers?
> 
> What about the G.Skill 3466C16 or 3600C17 kits? Will they be able to do 3200C14-14-14 tight?
> 
> Here are the kits I've been looking at:
> 
> First pick, as I have some Amazon GC's
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-4x8GB-PC4-27700-CMU32GX4M4C3466C16/dp/B01HKF42JC/
> 
> Or these:
> 
> 32GB...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232348
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232369
> 
> 64GB...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232349
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232347
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232368


the gskill 8x8GB 3200c14 kit runs [email protected] - no problem on the R5E-10 with this 6950X. (tho, I cannot get 1T to post at all, but 2T does not affect bandwidth)
This was run while browsing @1440P/120 on a swift while live streaming the olympics at 4K to another monitor.







4.3/3.7.


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the gskill 8x8GB 3200c14 kit runs [email protected] - no problem on the R5E-10 with this 6950X. (tho, I cannot get 1T to post at all, but 2T does not affect bandwidth)
> This was run while browsing @1440P/120 on a swift while live streaming the olympics at 4K to another monitor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4.3/3.7.


Interesting. You tried running 3466C16 @1.35V or less? I know you're a smoke em if you got em guy, but curious how the 3200C14 bin compares to 3466C16


----------



## superkyle1721

Hey guys could use some advice. Ive been playing around with clocking the Gskill 3600 CL15 kit. I wanted to start off at stock speeds and basically just tighten up the timings. This is what I came up with. Im sure there are many things that can be improved but when running at 1t the memory seems very touchy. Lots of 41/55 codes. Currently I am running the timings below with 1.4V Dram 1.224V VCCIO and 1.25V SA. ANyone else have this ram and care to share what timings they achieved? Any advice on how to get more out of the sticks is welcome!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Interesting. You tried running 3466C16 @1.35V or less? I know you're a smoke em if you got em guy, but curious how the 3200C14 bin compares to 3466C16


3466c15 only. 1.4V was needed. 3466c14 is 1.45 on my 64GB kit (both 2T). But, 3466 was not as "productive" as 3400. May be a memory divider thing - IDK.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Hey guys could use some advice. Ive been playing around with clocking the Gskill 3600 CL15 kit. I wanted to start off at stock speeds and basically just tighten up the timings. This is what I came up with. Im sure there are many things that can be improved but when running at 1t the memory seems very touchy. Lots of 41/55 codes. Currently I am running the timings below with 1.4V Dram 1.224V VCCIO and 1.25V SA. ANyone else have this ram and care to share what timings they achieved? Any advice on how to get more out of the sticks is welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


On ASUS t-top boards, at 3600 and higher, set these secondary timings to the same value as CAS: TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 3466c15 only. 1.4V was needed. 3466c14 is 1.45 on my 64GB kit (both 2T). But, 3466 was not as "productive" as 3400. May be a memory divider thing - IDK.
> On ASUS t-top boards, at 3600 and higher, set these secondary timings to the same value as CAS: TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427


Thanks jpmboy. I know to match the timings with CL above 3600 but directly at 3600 I didn't have any issues with setting the timings below CL. The timings that gave me the most issues were tCWL. Trying a setting below 13 resulted in code 41 every time no matter what I tried it seems. The settings I posted earlier are memtest stable but not nearly as tight as I would like. Once I get 3600 as tight as possible I'll save and move on to the next speed step and so on. With each sequential speed I tighten up I plan to run a series on benchmarks to quantify which is the best (i.e. Speed vs latency at higher clocks) I don't plan on pushing more than say 1.5V dram 24/7 so the clocks closer to 4K will be merely for show and fun. Still a lot to learn as far as timings go and how they interact but I enjoy it!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Thanks jpmboy. I know to match the timings with CL above 3600 but directly at 3600 I didn't have any issues with setting the timings below CL. The timings that gave me the most issues were tCWL. Trying a setting below 13 resulted in code 41 every time no matter what I tried it seems. The settings I posted earlier are memtest stable but not nearly as tight as I would like. Once I get 3600 as tight as possible I'll save and move on to the next speed step and so on. With each sequential speed I tighten up I plan to run a series on benchmarks to quantify which is the best (i.e. Speed vs latency at higher clocks) I don't plan on pushing more than say 1.5V dram 24/7 so the clocks closer to 4K will be merely for show and fun. Still a lot to learn as far as timings go and how they interact but I enjoy it!!


write latency needs to be Cas -3 or less (like -1 or the same as CAS). Thats likely the 41 since they are used to set RTLs, AFAIK. You set the RTL offset to 21?


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> write latency needs to be Cas -3 or less (like -1 or the same as CAS). Thats likely the 41 since they are used to set RTLs, AFAIK. You set the RTL offset to 21?


You are prob right. The only reason I worked on trying to get it lower was bc in the other memory forum when I was first learning I was told to first boot with a tCWL of 9. When I first posted my timing for my old ram they said the value of 13 was too high. I don't think this ram will take 9 bc I tried everything. Everything on auto manually entered xmp timings and tCWL and no matter the voltage I would get no boot. RTL defaults to 21 for me since I'm only using 2 sticks.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> You are prob right. The only reason I worked on trying to get it lower was bc in the other memory forum when I was first learning I was told to first boot with a tCWL of 9. When I first posted my timing for my old ram they said the value of 13 was too high. I don't think this ram will take 9 bc I tried everything. Everything on auto manually entered xmp timings and tCWL and no matter the voltage I would get no boot. RTL defaults to 21 for me since I'm only using 2 sticks.


yeah, some kits have their limits. to get tCWL to boot at 9, what voltage did you run it up to? remember, the advice you may be getting (especially off the BOT) may refer to a very different voltage universe.


----------



## Silent Scone

My kit has no issue with write latency at 9, to my surprise. That's at both 3200 and 3400.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> My kit has no issue with write latency at 9, to my surprise. That's at both 3200 and 3400.


Yeah - this 64GB kit runs tCWL @ 9 and without establishing stability - so the comparison may not be valid - it's not buying anything for me (yeah, I know.. 2T







)

tWCL 12 (Auto):


tCWL 9


----------



## djgar

A little more tweaking that passed 80 minutes of GSAT no spiiking:

djgar--i6900K @4.604/3.836---3410Mhz-C14-15-14-17-1T----1.39v---SA 1.20v---Stressapptest----80 Mins
Strix X99


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, some kits have their limits. to get tCWL to boot at 9, what voltage did you run it up to? remember, the advice you may be getting (especially off the BOT) may refer to a very different voltage universe.


Oh yeah for sure. I tested up to 1.65V I know many of those guys run 1.8+V I've seen others get amazing results with this kit no matter the binning. Bdie is suppose to tighten like no other which makes me think it's me but I just don't see what I'm missing besides more voltage. I may drop to a different bios revision just to test but I doubt that's it.

Edit check out that reference cycle time it's crazy high and as tight as I could get it to boot.


----------



## sabishiihito

Oddly enough, people have gotten better results from the 3600C16 and 3600C17 B-die G.Skill kits than 3600C15. Counter-intuitive, I know.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabishiihito*
> 
> Oddly enough, people have gotten better results from the 3600C16 and 3600C17 B-die G.Skill kits than 3600C15. Counter-intuitive, I know.


Yeah you are right I wouldn't of guessed that. I know some of the more talented referred to the CL15 as one of if not the best kits to clock which is what drew me to them. I got them not bc they are fast but to learn how to properly clock ram. I'm not a master of CPU or gpu overclocking by any means but I feel I do have a very strong handle with that. Ram however is my weak point. Wayyy to many settings and constant restarts or failed boots. I'm trying to learn the in depth relationships between timings but it's not an easy thing to find. I figured with all of the talented people on here if I post up a question someone will know the answer.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabishiihito*
> 
> Oddly enough, people have gotten better results from the 3600C16 and 3600C17 B-die G.Skill kits than 3600C15. Counter-intuitive, I know.


well that's not good news.


----------



## superkyle1721

Testing stability now but switching to CR2 made a world of difference. Below timings are at 1.5V dram 1.25 VCCIO and 1.3V SA. Will post results later once fully stable. Much much better than scores achieved with CR1. I guess sometimes CR1 is outdone by a better CR2...


----------



## djgar

Those voltages are on the high side ... as long as you know


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Those voltages are on the high side ... as long as you know


plan to reduce SA and VCCIO down to minimum stable. Dram is fine at 1.5V been running all my sticks at 1.45-1.5 never had any issues. With that said however I will reduce it if it will boot lower.


----------



## djgar

Does your board have separate eventual/operating vs. boot dram volts? Anyway, I had a set of Geil Potenza dimms fry @ 1.42v so I've been overtly paranoid ever since







.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Does your board have separate eventual/operating vs. boot dram volts? Anyway, I had a set of Geil Potenza dimms fry @ 1.42v so I've been overtly paranoid ever since
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


No it's good advise and I appreciate you looking out for sure. Unless I'm mistaken the ram I'm using is Samsung b-die which handles voltage very well. With that said however yes I do have separate boot and eventual voltages but honestly I've never really messed with them. Typically keep them on auto.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> No it's good advise and I appreciate you looking out for sure. Unless I'm mistaken the ram I'm using is Samsung b-die which handles voltage very well. With that said however yes I do have separate boot and eventual voltages but honestly I've never really messed with them. Typically keep them on auto.


So you're getting 1.5 dram on auto?

I'm going to see what I can do using CR2 instead of the CR1 I normally treat as gospel


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> So you're getting 1.5 dram on auto?
> 
> I'm going to see what I can do using CR2 instead of the CR1 I normally treat as gospel


From what I've learned which I still have a lot to learn cr1 is obviously better than cr2 but if you take a look at what my ram could hold stable from a few post above at similar voltages then the loss of using cr2 is more than offset by the speed increase using cr2. So far my testing in Aida benchmarks shows a fairly substantial increase in memory throughput and about a 3 second reduction in pi32m.

Dram, SA, and VCCIO were all set manually. I was able to reduce SA to 1.224V and VCCIO to 1.2V. Dram needed 1.5V still. Changing to 15,15,15 will boot at 1.45V same SA and VCCIO. Can't decide which I'm more comfortable running 24/7.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Still bored of waiting for TitanX Pascal, I passed a new HCI Memtest...










*[email protected](strap 125-bclk 126)--DDR4(32GB)@3361 [email protected] 1.136v--VCCIO 1.05v--HCI Memtest Pro 200%*

Seems a bit stable, doesnt it???

Would like to see it added to your list, my dear Scone!!!


----------



## stargate125645

That looks like an extremely low VCCIO. Does BW-E require a lower VCCIO than does HW-E, or is your chipset just good at the much lower voltage?


----------



## vmanuelgm

If I leave it auto, it gets lower indeed, to 1.02v... So I am selecting a higher value=1.05v.

Just read Raja in B-E thread and lowered cache voltage to 1.30v exactly (from 1.33v), have to check stability later...


----------



## stargate125645

Welp, the quad channel RAM would not operate at 14-14-14-34-2T either regardless of settings. So, my chip just doesn't like those timings, at least for 3200MHz. It almost forces me to go to 3333MHz since I can run CL16 with 1T timings there without issue, which is more reasonable.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Welp, the quad channel RAM would not operate at 14-14-14-34-2T either regardless of settings. So, my chip just doesn't like those timings, at least for 3200MHz. It almost forces me to go to 3333MHz since I can run CL16 with 1T timings there without issue, which is more reasonable.


Try 14-15-14-34-1T ... worked for me and I also had a hard time with 14-14-14


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Welp, the quad channel RAM would not operate at 14-14-14-34-2T either regardless of settings. So, my chip just doesn't like those timings, at least for 3200MHz. It almost forces me to go to 3333MHz since I can run CL16 with 1T timings there without issue, which is more reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> Try 14-15-14-34-1T ... worked for me and I also had a hard time with 14-14-14
Click to expand...

Going from 14 to 15 with tRCD would allow me to drop to 1T perhaps?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Going from 14 to 15 with tRCD would allow me to drop to 1T perhaps?


Exactly!


----------



## vmanuelgm




----------



## superkyle1721

CPU core: 4.843
Cache: 4.843
Vcore: 1.44V
Dram: 1.49V
VCCIO: 1.224V
SA: 1.25V

Tested stable with 4 passes of memtest. I plan to download and install Gsat to further test and submit. I think this will be my 24/7 settings. What do you guys think?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPU core: 4.843
> Cache: 4.843
> Vcore: 1.44V
> Dram: 1.49V
> VCCIO: 1.224V
> SA: 1.25V
> 
> Tested stable with 4 passes of memtest. I plan to download and install Gsat to further test and submit. I think this will be my 24/7 settings. What do you guys think?


No smoke coming out? You know this is the no-smoking section









Those voltages do seem on the high side, but then I'm not familiar with Skylake. Have you stress tested with RealBench or Aida?


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> No smoke coming out? You know this is the no-smoking section
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those voltages do seem on the high side, but then I'm not familiar with Skylake. Have you stress tested with RealBench or Aida?


HAHA no smoke here!! Skylake can handle Vcore up to 1.52 per Intel. I keep mine 1.44 or below just to give a cushion. Skylake is actually very robust. I believe JPMboy was running 1.48V 24/7 and never had any issues. My CPU is actually a binned CPU from Silicon Lottery. Will run 4.9 at 1.44V with max temp of around 62C (Delidded and under a H100I V2 push/pull). This is with a cache of 4.2 though. I sacrificed some core speed for cache. I ran X264 and realbench a lot back when I was working on CPU overclock...Anything can pass AIDA that program is pretty weak for stability testing. All pass with no errors







.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> HAHA no smoke here!! Skylake can handle Vcore up to 1.52 per Intel. I keep mine 1.44 or below just to give a cushion. Skylake is actually very robust. I believe JPMboy was running 1.48V 24/7 and never had any issues. My CPU is actually a binned CPU from Silicon Lottery. Will run 4.9 at 1.44V with max temp of around 62C (Delidded and under a H100I V2 push/pull). This is with a cache of 4.2 though. I sacrificed some core speed for cache. I ran X264 and realbench a lot back when I was working on CPU overclock...Anything can pass AIDA that program is pretty weak for stability testing. All pass with no errors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Just wondering, is it advantageous to sacrifice core speed for cache for most applications?


----------



## lilchronic

1.5v+ or go home. lol jk

that was with chilled water. stuck a 240 rad in to a bucket of ice water.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Just wondering, is it advantageous to sacrifice core speed for cache for most applications?


Honestly I have no idea. My baseline for that is gaming which I just used 3dmark testing. Dropping the core .5 and increasing the cache to match core drastically increased the throughput for my ram which bumped my firestrike score up. Real world will likely show a wash IMO but others will be better suited to answer this bc I am only guessing.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> 1.5v+ or go home. lol jk


HA Ive seen others run this kit up to 1.9 and acheive some great scores but before I started to play with voltages in that range I wanted to find some 24/7 stable settings first. Give me a couple weeks ill post something up..Im thinking 4200 CL12 1.8V...Heres to hoping


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> HA Ive seen others run this kit up to 1.9 and acheive some great scores but before I started to play with voltages in that range I wanted to find some 24/7 stable settings first. Give me a couple weeks ill post something up..Im thinking 4200 CL12 1.8V...Heres to hoping


Yeah but that is mainly for benching. I have a kit of samsung B-die in my x99 rig right now, when i tested it on skylake i was able to get 3466Mhz cl12 @ 1.7v in super pi stable but anything higher i could not get stable and i think @ 3866Mhz i broke my os and had to re install. lol
That run i did was with crucial micron 2133Mhz kit. I still need to get a better kit for skylake build but kinda waiting it out for some newer revision's.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah but that is mainly for benching. I have a kit of samsung B-die in my x99 rig right now, when i tested it on skylake i was able to get 3466Mhz cl12 @ 1.7v in super pi stable but anything higher i could not get stable and i think @ 3866Mhz i broke my os and had to re install. lol
> That run i did was with crucial micron 2133Mhz kit. I still need to get a better kit for skylake build but kinda waiting it out for some newer revision's.


I have to say I am pretty happy with the 3600 cl15 kit. At first I was a bit PO that it wouldn't run 1t at higher frequencies without crazy CL but sacrificing CR1 for CR2 and I've been quite pleased. Seems to overclock extremely well and remain stable. I'm sure I can tighten them up even more at the same voltage but I reached what I was shooting for and stopped. Maybe one day when I have the time I will get back to it but for now I will likely relax and enjoy it. Time to start saving for Titan X Volta SLI and X99 or whatever the chipset will be. Going all out on my next rig. Custom loop high rng components.


----------



## opt33

My new Gskill 4x8gb 3200C14 1.35v kit needed 1.2v SA, 1.15v I/0 to boot with XMP profile (1.36v dram V auto) but running HCI has multiple errors in less than 1 minute, or bsods. Assumed since rated 1.35V that my board XMP giving it 1.36V was sufficient, but finally tried 1.38v Dram, now was able to back off SA/I/0 to 1.15 and 1.10 and no errors in 30 mins so far (using 85% mem with HCI), which is 30x longer than any other attempt before raising dram v.

Reasonable odds that it is not indicative of failing ram if it passes at 1.38v? In which case, just run at 1.38v.


----------



## vmanuelgm

1.38v is a sweet voltage spot for dram.

Nice oc's you have guys, would like 5 GHz in my 6950x and 3800 for Dram!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> My new Gskill 4x8gb 3200C14 1.35v kit needed 1.2v SA, 1.15v I/0 to boot with XMP profile (1.36v dram V auto) but running HCI has multiple errors in less than 1 minute, or bsods. Assumed since rated 1.35V that my board XMP giving it 1.36V was sufficient, but finally tried 1.38v Dram, now was able to back off SA/I/0 to 1.15 and 1.10 and no errors in 30 mins so far (using 85% mem with HCI), which is 30x longer than any other attempt before raising dram v.
> 
> Reasonable odds that it is not indicative of failing ram if it passes at 1.38v? In which case, just run at 1.38v.


Not all of those kits are certified for X99, so in terms of guardband, compensating with more DRAM voltage is not all that out of the ordinary. G.SKILL is all hand binned, some may need it and others won't.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> 
> 
> CPU core: 4.843
> Cache: 4.843
> Vcore: 1.44V
> Dram: 1.49V
> VCCIO: 1.224V
> SA: 1.25V
> 
> Tested stable with 4 passes of memtest. I plan to download and install Gsat to further test and submit. I think this will be my 24/7 settings. What do you guys think?


for a Z170 board, those voltages are just fine.. especially seeing that you can get away with only 1.25V VSA with that ram frequency.


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Not all of those kits are certified for X99, so in terms of guardband, compensating with more DRAM voltage is not all that out of the ordinary. G.SKILL is all hand binned, some may need it and others won't.


thanks...Ill just run at 1.38v then....currently im at 130% coverage, still no errors, so looking good so far.


----------



## djgar

Doing some more experimenting I got a configuration in adaptive with DDR4-3458 14-15-14-21 with the tight tweaks I had to run 80 minutes of GSAT. The only catch is it's a bclk of 96, right at the low edge (95.8 will not boot nohow noway, 95.9 gets weird and thinks it's 96), and I'm going to need over 1.41 vcore for 4610GHz


----------



## sdrawkcab

If I am on X99 platform with a HWE processor am I realistically limited to the 3200/3400 limit? Looking at the table on the first page I did not see any HWE results near Skylake, I'm not sure if this is just because people do not post or if those are the expected limits of HWE. I am very tempted to buy a new G.Skill kit but if my motherboard/processor isn't capable of running the higher speeds I'd like to avoid throwing away my money.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> If I am on X99 platform with a HWE processor am I realistically limited to the 3200/3400 limit? Looking at the table on the first page I did not see any HWE results near Skylake, I'm not sure if this is just because people do not post or if those are the expected limits of HWE. I am very tempted to buy a new G.Skill kit but if my motherboard/processor isn't capable of running the higher speeds I'd like to avoid throwing away my money.


The highest supported ratio for HWE is 3200, this should tell you all you need to know.


----------



## sdrawkcab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The highest supported ratio for HWE is 3200, this should tell you all you need to know.


In regards to the table, is Moorhen's stability with 3340Mhz and 3426Mhz on the case of a very good HWE chip? I've checked the thread for my motherboard model to see very few people above 3200 so I am curious myself what falls under requirements for this.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> In regards to the table, is Moorhen's stability with 3340Mhz and 3426Mhz on the case of a very good HWE chip? I've checked the thread for my motherboard model to see very few people above 3200 so I am curious myself what falls under requirements for this.


3333 to 3400 on Haswell-E will need a fairly good IMC, but it's also down to everything being in your favour within some of the deeper auto parametres also. Some of these guys will go through several kits for example, before finding stability.

3200 is the strongest ratio on Haswell-E, this is why you are seeing what you are in the other thread. As I've already said, this is the highest supported ratio officially, so if piecing things together you can probably imagine why this might be.


----------



## sdrawkcab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 3333 to 3400 on Haswell-E will need a fairly good IMC, but it's also down to everything being in your favour within some of the deeper auto parametres also. Some of these guys will go through several kits for example, before finding stability.
> 
> 3200 is the strongest ratio on Haswell-E, this is why you are seeing what you are in the other thread. As I've already said, this is the highest supported ratio officially, so if piecing things together you can probably imagine why this might be.


This clears many doubts, thanks. When reading posts from the various users it is hard to know how many dimms they have gone through, I try to avoid assuming.

Now this may be a silly question, but it would be silly to not ask. Ruling out Z170 ram frequencies on X99, do you think there is room to buy a DDR4-4000 C16 kit and underclocking it to 3200 and a low cas latency? I don't want to assume that because it can do C16 at 4000 it will do something ridiculously low such as C10 3200, would these type of numbers be limited by the DDR4 architecture itself?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 3333 to 3400 on Haswell-E will need a fairly good IMC, but it's also down to everything being in your favour within some of the deeper auto parametres also. Some of these guys will go through several kits for example, before finding stability.
> 
> 3200 is the strongest ratio on Haswell-E, this is why you are seeing what you are in the other thread. As I've already said, this is the highest supported ratio officially, so if piecing things together you can probably imagine why this might be.


Technically 2133Mhz is officially the highest supported ratio for HWE, anything else is overclocked. 3200Mhz is the best to run with HWE because you don't need to use a different strap..... but definitely not the strongest

Why would anyone get multiple memory kits and not try to find stability on all of them? Do you mean they bin several kits before finding the best?

Also my motherboard's QVL say's it supports 3400Mhz

Oh and here is 3600Mhz on x99 HWE


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> This clears many doubts, thanks. When reading posts from the various users it is hard to know how many dimms they have gone through, I try to avoid assuming.
> 
> Now this may be a silly question, but it would be silly to not ask. Ruling out Z170 ram frequencies on X99, do you think there is room to buy a DDR4-4000 C16 kit and underclocking it to 3200 and a low cas latency? I don't want to assume that because it can do C16 at 4000 it will do something ridiculously low such as C10 3200, would these type of numbers be limited by the DDR4 architecture itself?


Be the first to try it! I don't think E-Die is able to scale down to C10 3200. Might be able to go tighter at say 3466 than C16 on a good set, but I find I unlikely. Best bet is to just clock a validated 3200 C14 kit. Or wait for the C13 3200.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Technically 2133Mhz is officially the highest supported


Yes, if going by what Intel constitutes as officially supported, but as your own example shows, we weren't. I find it strange that someone like yourself who has been around this long now would feel that needed to be pointed out, but for the sake of others I guess it needs to be addressed.

For example, taken from the X99 Deluxe page.
Quote:


> 8 x DIMM, Max. 128GB, DDR4 3333(O.C.)/3300(O.C.)/3200(O.C.)/3000(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666(O.C.)/2400(O.C.)/2133 MHz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory
> Quad Channel Memory Architecture
> Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)
> * Hyper DIMM support is subject to the physical characteristics of individual CPUs.
> * Refer to www.asus.com for the Memory QVL (Qualified Vendors Lists).


Until BWE, the maximum supported ratio was 3200. That doesn't mean higher cannot be achieved, but stability was / is likely too conditional for the vendors to list it.

If we look here for instance on an alternative original SOC Force by comparison, Gigabyte only list as high as 2800 as being supported for that particular board - you would need to ask them why that is, though.
Quote:


> 8 x DDR4 DIMM sockets supporting up to 128 GB of system memory
> * Due to a Windows 32-bit operating system limitation, when more than 4 GB of physical memory is installed, the actual memory size displayed will be less than the size of the physical memory installed.
> 4 channel memory architecture
> Support for DDR4 2800(O.C.) / 2666(O.C.) / 2400(O.C.) / 2133 MHz memory modules
> Support for non-ECC memory modules
> Support for Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) memory modules
> Support for RDIMM 1Rx8 memory modules (operates in non-ECC mode)
> (Please refer "Memory Support List" for more information.)


It varies across vendors, but 3200 is still the strongest ratio for Haswell-E







I think you're possibly confused as to what constitutes as strong, but I hope that clears things up.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> This clears many doubts, thanks. When reading posts from the various users it is hard to know how many dimms they have gone through, I try to avoid assuming.
> 
> Now this may be a silly question, but it would be silly to not ask. Ruling out Z170 ram frequencies on X99, do you think there is room to buy a DDR4-4000 C16 kit and underclocking it to 3200 and a low cas latency? *I don't want to assume that because it can do C16 at 4000 it will do something ridiculously low such as C10 3200, would these type of numbers be limited by the DDR4 architecture itself*?


more limited by the HWE memory controller and quad channel (vs dual channel architecture). SUre, you can run higher freqs than 3200 on HWE, but not without knowing the tweaks needed and frankly, getting a good group of silicon together. x99 is more about bandwidth then freq and latency. Combining 4000 z170 kits to run a latency like you suggest on x99 is gonna be a quixotic adventure.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, if going by what Intel constitutes as officially supported, but as your own example shows, we weren't. I find it strange that someone like yourself who has been around this long now would feel that needed to be pointed out, but for the sake of others I guess it needs to be addressed.
> 
> For example, taken from the X99 Deluxe page.
> Until BWE, the maximum supported ratio was 3200. That doesn't mean higher cannot be achieved, but stability was / is likely too conditional for the vendors to list it.
> 
> If we look here for instance on an alternative original SOC Force by comparison, Gigabyte only list as high as 2800 as being supported for that particular board - you would need to ask them why that is, though.
> It varies across vendors, *but 3200 is still the strongest ratio for Haswell-E*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're possibly confused as to what constitutes as strong, but I hope that clears things up.


^^ This (Absolutely).


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Welp, the quad channel RAM would not operate at 14-14-14-34-2T either regardless of settings. So, my chip just doesn't like those timings, at least for 3200MHz. It almost forces me to go to 3333MHz since I can run CL16 with 1T timings there without issue, which is more reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> Try 14-15-14-34-1T ... worked for me and I also had a hard time with 14-14-14
Click to expand...

I made it to 127% before I got an error. Haven't had another and I'm at 240%. I imagine this means I'm close, or does time to an error not really indicate anything? I only did 1.38V, so I could go higher.


----------



## djgar

OK, here's my adventure to the edge of non-smoking cache 4608 / 3740 ... right at the edge of bootable low bclk. It's weird multiplier behavior: 96.00 has stability peroblems with 1.415 vcore whereas 95.9 behaves like 96.0 would with 4608 cpu instead of the 4603 the bios proclaims, and is relatively stable @ 1.415 vcore. As I mentioned earlier, forget about anything below 95.9 (for my CPU of course).

I can't believe I got these TridentZs to run at 3456 14-15-14-17-CR1 @ 1.41v eventual (1.4 Aida). Got my 80 minutes GSAT and 140 minutes in RealBench before the watchdog bsod said "Enough!" (I might try some vccsa exploration when the next bios comes out).

Meanwhile I hope the adaptive 1.415 vcore (1.413 Aida), 1.980 (2.000) vccin and friendly .33 offset (1.298) vcache won't fry my trusty 6900K for 24/7









Scone: No hurry, whenever you get a few to update ...
djgar--i6900K @4.608/3.74---3456Mhz-C14-15-14-17-1T----1.41v---SA 1.20v---Stressapptest----80 minutes
vccin----1.98v
Strix Gaming

BTW, in the new Win 10 Anniv my Cinebench (my daily use) drops from 1950s to 1930s from the pre-Anniv (my stress test environment), so it does look like they're doing some core management. The question is have they some way of managing the management ...


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, if going by what Intel constitutes as officially supported, but as your own example shows, we weren't. I find it strange that someone like yourself who has been around this long now would feel that needed to be pointed out, but for the sake of others I guess it needs to be addressed.
> 
> For example, taken from the X99 Deluxe page.
> Until BWE, the maximum supported ratio was 3200. That doesn't mean higher cannot be achieved, but stability was / is likely too conditional for the vendors to list it.
> 
> If we look here for instance on an alternative original SOC Force by comparison, Gigabyte only list as high as 2800 as being supported for that particular board - you would need to ask them why that is, though.
> It varies across vendors, but 3200 is still the strongest ratio for Haswell-E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're possibly confused as to what constitutes as strong, but I hope that clears things up.


Guess i'm just bad at trolling.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Is 1.405V vcore ok for 24/7 usage?


I wouldn't run it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> the 1.98 vccin worries me - it seems to deliver 2.00 according to Aida


If that figure is accurate (verify with a multimeter), then you're using too much LLC.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Anyone know what type of instability will usually cause GSAT to hang on the "pausing threads, and resuming to cause power spike"?


Some people are saying to run with power spiking disabled, but I have never seen an actually stable system hang on GSAT, even with the power spike enabled. Test it at stock, and if you get no hanging, then the hanging on the power spike during your OC testing is almost certainly revealing a legitimate problem somewhere.

As for what could cause the hangs, outside of a bug with the app, it's possible Input voltage is too low, LLC too high, or memory timings that cause a lot of current draw (overly tight tRRD or tFAW) would be my first guess. Incorrect power phase or PWM frequency settings are another possibility.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That looks like an extremely low VCCIO. Does BW-E require a lower VCCIO than does HW-E, or is your chipset just good at the much lower voltage?


VCCIO doesn't have much of anything to do with the chipset and 1.05 is stock for Haswell-E.

I've never needed more than 1.08 VCCIO for any Haswell-E and more than 10mV over stock on my current part craps up memory training.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Skylake can handle Vcore up to 1.52 per Intel.


That's a potentially dangerous misinterpretation of the datasheet info.


----------



## superkyle1721

Potentially yes. I wouldn't run it at 1.52V but I know there is one person on Reddit running a 6600K at 1.5V 24/7 testing degradation and so far hasn't experienced anything last I checked. Of course this is on a custom loop depending on the cooling solution this will widely vary.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Potentially yes. I wouldn't run it at 1.52V but I know there is one person on Reddit running a 6600K at 1.5V 24/7 testing degradation and so far hasn't experienced anything last I checked. Of course this is on a custom loop depending on the cooling solution this will widely vary.


It's also going to vary greatly depending on the load the part is subject to and the individual sample itself. A low leakage part with a high stock VID might last years of light use at a voltage that would kill a high leakage part that folds 24/7 in days or hours.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> If that figure is accurate (verify with a multimeter), then you're using too much LLC.










Of course, I forget I have LLC set to 8. And living at the edge as I currently am, I need it or it's bsod.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, I forget I have LLC set to 8. And living at the edge as I currently am, I need it or it's bsod.


Depending on where you see instability and what you normally use the part for, reducing LLC and increasing vinput could be safer and potentially more stable.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> It's also going to vary greatly depending on the load the part is subject to and the individual sample itself. A low leakage part with a high stock VID might last years of light use at a voltage that would kill a high leakage part that folds 24/7 in days or hours.


I see...never thought of it that way before. Thanks for the knowledge!


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> That looks like an extremely low VCCIO. Does BW-E require a lower VCCIO than does HW-E, or is your chipset just good at the much lower voltage?
> 
> 
> 
> VCCIO doesn't have much of anything to do with the chipset and 1.05 is stock for Haswell-E.
> 
> I've never needed more than 1.08 VCCIO for any Haswell-E and more than 10mV over stock on my current part craps up memory training.
Click to expand...

Then why is the MO on this site to suggest 1.9 to start?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Then why is the MO on this site to suggest 1.9 to start?


No one has ever said start at 1.9 VCCIO. Think you are mistaken for VCCIN.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Depending on where you see instability and what you normally use the part for, reducing LLC and increasing vinput could be safer and potentially more stable.


I'm in the process of giving my cpu a well-deserved break and doing just that. At-and-Over-the-Edge exploration has been fun and very instructive!


----------



## superkyle1721

Hey guys Ive downloaded linuxmint from the 1st page as well as what I think is Gsat..It is labeled stresapptest. Im trying to figure out how to install mint. Is it a boot from usb OS or can it be ran via windows? Sorry Im not familiar with linux. I imagine I can download a VM and run it? Im just curious whats the best way to go about launching this program to test the ram.


----------



## djgar

I use a small SSD with both Windows and Linux for stress testing. I believe Linux can be placed in a USB Flash drive using Rufus, but have no experience there. I'm sure others here do.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I use a small SSD with both Windows and Linux for stress testing. I believe Linux can be placed in a USB Flash drive using Rufus, but have no experience there. I'm sure others here do.


I just tried running Rufus. Booted to USB and got a screen that asked to launch mint as well as launch in comparability or OEM install (for manufactures). Selected launch mint and takes me to a black screen so I am not sure it works. Maybe someone else will chime in and tell me how big an idiot I'm being trying to do something simple haha.

Edit: created a 3GB partition using NTFS and copied over the files. Booted into that partition and still black screen. Not sure what I am doing wrong.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Then why is the MO on this site to suggest 1.9 to start?
> 
> 
> 
> No one has ever said start at 1.9 VCCIO. Think you are mistaken for VCCIN.
Click to expand...

It would be a lot easier if people would be consistent with their terminology, including motherboard makers.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> It would be a lot easier if people would be consistent with their terminology, including motherboard makers.


This may help you out a bit.

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/images/stories/galleries/reviews/2014/5960x-oc-guide/sonstig/voltage_planes.jpeg


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> It would be a lot easier if people would be consistent with their terminology, including motherboard makers.


Hello

I've never seen any inconsistency regarding the use of wording as it relates VCCIN and VCCIO. Different terms for different voltage rails.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> I just tried running Rufus. Booted to USB and got a screen that asked to launch mint as well as launch in comparability or OEM install (for manufactures). Selected launch mint and takes me to a black screen so I am not sure it works. Maybe someone else will chime in and tell me how big an idiot I'm being trying to do something simple haha.
> 
> Edit: created a 3GB partition using NTFS and copied over the files. Booted into that partition and still black screen. Not sure what I am doing wrong.


Linux doesn't use NTFS, it uses another partition format Ext4 as the install from the downloaded mounted image should show.


----------



## stargate125645

Well, I've had my VCCIO on Auto, and my motherboard decided it was important enough to jump it to 1.2V+ in the latest memory stress test, which the voltage monitor listed as red (typically reserved for "OMG DON'T GO THAT HIGH!" voltages. I don't recall it doing that before. I've since set it to 1.1V for both the PCH and CPU (my motherboard shows two IOs). Assuming my system becomes unstable because of this, what is a safe VCCIO voltage, and which of the two IO options should I be changing?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> It would be a lot easier if people would be consistent with their terminology, including motherboard makers.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> I've never seen any inconsistency regarding the use of wording as it relates VCCIN and VCCIO. Different terms for different voltage rails.
Click to expand...


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Linux doesn't use NTFS, it uses another partition format Ext4 as the install from the downloaded mounted image should show.


I do now it uses Ext format but it doesn't format to EXT until it's booted. I'm not sure what I changed but I was able to get it to work. Basically created the bootable USB launched waited a while and a mouse cursor finally appeared. Installed gsat and ran fine. I'm away from the house now but will run and post results in the morning


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Well, I've had my VCCIO on Auto, and my motherboard decided it was important enough to jump it to 1.2V+ in the latest memory stress test, which the voltage monitor listed as red (typically reserved for "OMG DON'T GO THAT HIGH!" voltages. I don't recall it doing that before. I've since set it to 1.1V for both the PCH and CPU (my motherboard shows two IOs). Assuming my system becomes unstable because of this, what is a safe VCCIO voltage, and which of the two IO options should I be changing?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> It would be a lot easier if people would be consistent with their terminology, including motherboard makers.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> I've never seen any inconsistency regarding the use of wording as it relates VCCIN and VCCIO. Different terms for different voltage rails.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It would appear I do need a VCCIO of more than 1.2 to be stable. So for which of the two options do I change the voltage? I see Raja says 1.3V is max to be not concerned with, so do you all agree? Not sure why an ASUS monitoring application would say to be cautious when an ASUS rep says otherwise.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> It would appear I do need a VCCIO of more than 1.2 to be stable. So for which of the two options do I change the voltage? I see Raja says 1.3V is max to be not concerned with, so do you all agree? Not sure why an ASUS monitoring application would say to be cautious when an ASUS rep says otherwise.


I find tuning vccsa much more critical for stability than vccio. What are your current settings for target speed (vcore, vcache etc.)?


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> It would appear I do need a VCCIO of more than 1.2 to be stable. So for which of the two options do I change the voltage? I see Raja says 1.3V is max to be not concerned with, so do you all agree? Not sure why an ASUS monitoring application would say to be cautious when an ASUS rep says otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> I find tuning vccsa much more critical for stability than vccio. What are your current settings for target speed (vcore, vcache etc.)?
Click to expand...

See my signature. Everything is stable except RAM when I take VCCIO off Auto. And using the 14-15-14-34-1T you suggested at 1.38V works fine for 3200MHz, but only with 1.25 VCCIO on the CPU (PCH IO left at 1.1). 1.04V is what VCCSA is set to. 1.2V for cache, 1.23V for core.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> See my signature. Everything is stable except RAM when I take VCCIO off Auto. And using the 14-15-14-34-1T you suggested at 1.38V works fine for 3200MHz, but only with 1.25 VCCIO on the CPU (PCH IO left at 1.1). 1.04V is what VCCSA is set to. 1.2V for cache, 1.23V for core.


What signature? I don't see one, just the system inventory


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> See my signature. Everything is stable except RAM when I take VCCIO off Auto. And using the 14-15-14-34-1T you suggested at 1.38V works fine for 3200MHz, but only with 1.25 VCCIO on the CPU (PCH IO left at 1.1). 1.04V is what VCCSA is set to. 1.2V for cache, 1.23V for core.
> 
> 
> 
> What signature? I don't see one, just the system inventory
Click to expand...

I guess anything below the post is my signature, then, as that's what I meant for you to look at.


----------



## Lays

Do I have to do anything special when I install Linux Mint on Z170?

I know windows 7 requires XHCI drivers inside the ISO, is it the same for Linux or no?


----------



## Arctucas

Arctucas--i7 6700K @ 4.83/4.72---3640 MHz-C15-15-15-35-2T----1.38V---SA 1.25V---IO 1.22V---HCI 1350%


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Arctucas--i7 6700K @ 4.83/4.72---3640 MHz-C15-15-15-35-2T----1.38V---SA 1.25V---IO 1.22V---HCI 1350%


Thanks for the entry. Nice chip too.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Do I have to do anything special when I install Linux Mint on Z170?
> 
> I know windows 7 requires XHCI drivers inside the ISO, is it the same for Linux or no?


Not sure if this helps or not but to get it to run on my board I downloaded from the link on the first page. Used Rufus and mounted the iso as a bootable USB. Booted USB with CMS enabled. Once inside Linux installed mint and then installed stressapptest all seems to be working and am currently running test now.







no extra stuff needed.


----------



## superkyle1721

Superkyle1721---6700K @4.841/4.841 (BCLK 103 Multi 47/47)---3845Mhz -C14-15-15-30-2T----1.5V---SA 1.225V---1.2VCCIO---Gsat 1-hour





Misc. 3rd timings were too tight and caused a few errors. Set 3rds to auto and was able to pass without issues. Will revisit 3rds later.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf New Motherboard, TUF Sabertooth [email protected]/4.5--CPU Adaptive 1.303v Additional Voltage--Cache.395 Offset/1.253v--8x16GB Corsair LPX 3000 2666Mhz C12-12-12-26-1T 1.36v--SA Offset .305v/1.096--CPU Input 1.92 --Stressapptest 1 Hour






Nice looking piece of machinery!! http://www.tech-critter.com/2015/04/unboxing-review-asus-sabertooth-x99.html



To get the timings below I put everything on Auto in the timings, XMP booted at 1866MHZ (Edit: When you put it on XMP make sure your CPU strap and RAM Ratio are correct, it changes it to 125 Strap on me) , manually set the sub-timings to what they were for that RAM ratio, rebooted at 2666.
Put timings back on Manual then I then changed to 12-12-12-26 1T that is what I was stable at before these tweaks, DRAM Ref Cycle Time to 278, DRAM Refresh Interval to 22066, CAS# Write Latency to 9, lowest it would boot at, tRTP to 4, tFAW to 16 and a couple other minor tweaks.

That way I never had to figure out how to set everything by trial and error and still get really low stable sub-timings










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Superkyle1721---6700K @4.841/4.841 (BCLK 103 Multi 47/47)---3845Mhz -C14-15-15-30-2T----1.5V---SA 1.225V---1.2VCCIO---Gsat 1-hour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Misc. 3rd timings were too tight and caused a few errors. Set 3rds to auto and was able to pass without issues. Will revisit 3rds later.


Try what I mentioned post above for sub-timings, might help.










Edit: When you put it on XMP make sure your CPU strap and RAM Ratio are correct, it changes it to 125 Strap on me.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Try what I mentioned post above for sub-timings, might help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: When you put it on XMP make sure your CPU strap and RAM Ratio are correct, it changes it to 125 Strap on me.


Secondary timings are as tight as I could get them and still be stable. I tightened up the thirds and pasted 4 passes of memtest but had a few errors on gsat. Primaries and secondaries are finished for all intensive purposes. Honestly I may not even revisit thirds since the difference in benchmarks was nearly negligible honestly. Maybe when I get bored again I will go back and tighten them up but I'm not sure which setting caused the error so not sure the testing time will weigh in the reward.


----------



## cookiesowns

Has anyone tried GSAT on linuxmint or another distro that boots with Titan X pascals ? Keep getting black screen or kernel panic, even with stock settings.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Has anyone tried GSAT on linuxmint or another distro that boots with Titan X pascals ? Keep getting black screen or kernel panic, even with stock settings.


Hello
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Install Mint 18 using a compatible video card. Once done install the Pascal driver, shut down and replace the card with the 1070 or 1080.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello


Well that's a massive pain, considering i have the GPUs in a loop. Looks like I'll have to find a spare machine to install LM on with pascal drivers and swap the drives. Or find a way to side load the drivers.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello


Since the 980, I've had to edit the installation boot command to blacklist the nouveau driver from the start, or CentOS would not install.

When the first screen comes up on your distro, you usually have an option to edit the command line for the linux kernel, though it varies from distro to distro. What the linux kernel needs to be told is:

vmlinuz all_the_other_args nomodeset rdblacklist=nouveau

Where "all_the_other_args" are those arguments already present.

This will force the installation to use the generic VGA driver which I've had no issue with using the 980, 980ti and now 1080. I'd expect the same with the titan.

Once installed, I then install the Nvidia proprietary driver.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Has anyone tried GSAT on linuxmint or another distro that boots with Titan X pascals ? Keep getting black screen or kernel panic, even with stock settings.


Download this Puppy Linux ISO.

http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/tahr64-6.0.5.iso

Make USB With Rufus 'MBR for CSM/UEFI' option. https://rufus.akeo.ie/

Enable CSM and Fastboot in BIOS, boot from USB not using UEFI, search stressapptest in Puppy Package Manager, install it, profit!!







Had same trouble with my Titan X.









Edit: And change in BIOS Secure Boot to 'Other O/S'.


----------



## sdrawkcab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Has anyone tried GSAT on linuxmint or another distro that boots with Titan X pascals ? Keep getting black screen or kernel panic, even with stock settings.


Will the stressapp not work properly if we assign a VM with the same amount of CPU threads and enough ram for the test?


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> Will the stressapp not work properly if we assign a VM with the same amount of CPU threads and enough ram for the test?


No. Doesn't work like that, plus then now you risk corruption on the Hypervisor, and or ECC on the Hypervisor interfering.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Download this Puppy Linux ISO.
> 
> http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/tahr64-6.0.5.iso
> 
> Make USB With Rufus 'MBR for CSM/UEFI' option. https://rufus.akeo.ie/
> 
> Enable CSM and Fastboot in BIOS, boot from USB not using UEFI, search stressapptest in Puppy Package Manager, install it, profit!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had same trouble with my Titan X.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: And change in BIOS Secure Boot to 'Other O/S'.


Thanks, I'll give these a try once I get the 3200C14 kit in from Newegg. I hope mine clocks close to JPM's.

The 4x8GB Vegenance Z170 QVL kit I got is major potato, in fact, can't even do C14-16-16 @ 1.375V @ 3200. XMP 3466 @ C16 won't post, so I'm not surprised.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Since the 980, I've had to edit the installation boot command to blacklist the nouveau driver from the start, or CentOS would not install.
> 
> When the first screen comes up on your distro, you usually have an option to edit the command line for the linux kernel, though it various from distro to distro. What the linux kernel needs to be told is:
> 
> vmlinuz all_the_other_args nomodeset rdblacklist=nouveau
> 
> Where "all_the_other_args" are those arguments already present.
> 
> This will force the installation to use the generic VGA driver which I've had no issue with using the 980, 980ti and now 1080. I'd expect the same with the titan.
> 
> Once installed, I then install the Nvidia proprietary driver.


thanks!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> Will the stressapp not work properly if we assign a VM with the same amount of CPU threads and enough ram for the test?


it works fine but you can't commit the % ram to cover the entire amount installed.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf--TUF Sabertooth X99 [email protected]/4.5, CPU Adaptive 1.312v Additional Voltage/Cache Offset .390, 1.253v--3200Mhz C16-16-16-35-1T 1.39v Eventual--SA .340v Offset/1.128v--CPU Input 1.9v--Stressapptest 2 Hours




MemTweakIt and AIDA64 Benchmark below.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Lays

Is this RAM or CPU instability? Trying to learn how to use all this stuff, I've never used Linux in my life lol


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Is this RAM or CPU instability? Trying to learn how to use all this stuff, I've never used Linux in my life lol


Run the test at system defaults and see if the errors reoccur. CRC mismatch indicates that there is corruption, I'm sure you can piece together the rest!


----------



## Silent Scone

All recent entries added


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> All recent entries added


Scone didn't see my addition. Did I leave something out? Just checking...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Scone didn't see my addition. Did I leave something out? Just checking...


I added yours. quote the post if there's another missing


----------



## tw33k

Thanks for adding me to the table Scone, however, I'm running 32GB in my X99 system.

Also, ran Gsat for 1 hour http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2250_50#post_25395704


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Thanks for adding me to the table Scone, however, I'm running 32GB in my X99 system.
> 
> Also, ran Gsat for 1 hour http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2250_50#post_25395704


Amended. That's quite a jump in voltage for both tests. Shows how stringent GSAT can be at isolating the memory over HCI


----------



## Arctucas

@Silent Scone,

I see you added my test results to the list.

Thanks

My Motherboard is a eVGA Classified K.

My Uncore is 4.7

Also you have me in twice, the upper one is not me.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Superkyle1721---6700K @4.841/4.841 (BCLK 103 Multi 47/47)---3845Mhz -C14-15-15-30-2T----1.5V---SA 1.225V---1.2VCCIO---Gsat 1-hour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Misc. 3rd timings were too tight and caused a few errors. Set 3rds to auto and was able to pass without issues. Will revisit 3rds later.


This is the post I was referring to. Maybe I'm blind haha but I can't find it. Core 4.841 uncore 4.841


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Amended. That's quite a jump in voltage for both tests. Shows how stringent GSAT can be at isolating the memory over HCI


Cheers. I didn't mess around with the voltage, went straight to 1.4v considering I need to work on the timings and will probably need the extra voltage anyway


----------



## vmanuelgm

Scone, are you gonna add mine or not???


----------



## Raghar

Currently running 16 GB at 15-17-17-35 2T at 2666 MHz.
1.2V RAM
1.104 VCCSA
1.025 IMC


----------



## Desolutional

*Invalid Timings, see Scone's post below.*

*Corsair CMK64GX4M4B3333C16, 64GB (4x16GB)* - *Haswell-E 64GB*

Desolutional [email protected]/4.0---2667Mhz-C12-12-11-28-1T----1.40v---SA 1.03v---Stressapptest----2 Hours
VCCIN: 1.92V
VCCIO: 1.20V
tRTP=1, tFAW=2, tWL=9, tREFI=23000, tRFC=300


Spoiler: Screenshots


----------



## stargate125645

I managed to get 13-15-13-33 3200 MHz stable in GSAT for 2 hours. Working on that second timing, but it's given me trouble this entire process.

Edit: No can do, it would seem. Don't know why, but that second timing won't go any lower.

I managed to get 14-16-14-34 3333 MHz stable as well. Time to bench the two and see which is better. I expect the 3200 to perform better from what others on here have said about 3200 and Haswell-E, but I'll let you know.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> *Corsair CMK64GX4M4B3333C16, 64GB (4x16GB)* - *Haswell-E 64GB*
> 
> Desolutional [email protected]/4.0---2667Mhz-C12-12-11-28-1T----1.40v---SA 1.03v---Stressapptest----2 Hours
> VCCIN: 1.92V
> VCCIO: 1.20V
> tRTP=1, tFAW=2, tWL=9, tREFI=23000, tRFC=300
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Screenshots


what in the name of arbitrary ass-hattery are you doing with those settings?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I managed to get 13-15-13-33 3200 MHz stable in GSAT for 2 hours. Working on that second timing, but it's given me trouble this entire process.
> 
> Edit: No can do, it would seem. Don't know why, but that second timing won't go any lower.
> 
> I managed to get 14-16-14-34 3333 MHz stable as well. Time to bench the two and see which is better. I expect the 3200 to perform better from what others on here have said about 3200 and Haswell-E, but I'll let you know.


Glad you got there in the end, and at good speeds no less.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> what in the name of arbitrary ass-hattery are you doing with those settings?


No idea lol, doesn't really gain anything in the AIDA64 benchmark but it is stable for now. Will probably try to eek out 3200MHz later, but my IMC is quite poor. I'm confused as well. I have a niggling feeling that my tRTP and tFAW are massively broken though...









Would memtest with row hammer diagnose RTP and FAW faults, or should I just stick with GSAT?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> No idea lol, doesn't really gain anything in the AIDA64 benchmark but it is stable for now. Will probably try to eek out 3200MHz later, but my IMC is quite poor. I'm confused as well. I have a niggling feeling that my tRTP and tFAW are massively broken though...


The timings are invalid. These spacing are denoted in the ROG Timing guide in the OP, and have been covered a number of times already in here. Things like this just set out to confuse others


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The timings are invalid. These spacing are denoted in the ROG Timing guide in the OP, and have been covered a number of times already in here. Things like this just set out to confuse others


Ah thanks, I'll go correct the timings and push another retest, will post back in a few hours. They should really update the BIOS descriptions, it'll make things easier if someone forgets to use the guide...









I take it the DDR3 burst length and DDR4 burst length limit is the same? So all those equivalent rules still apply to DDR4?

*As with tRRD, setting tFAW below its lowest possible value will result in the memory controller reverting to the lowest possible value (16 DRAM clocks or tRRD * 4).*

That was why my settings still work I assume?


----------



## Desolutional

*Fixed Timings* Corsair CMK64GX4M4B3333C16, 64GB (4x16GB) - Haswell-E 64GB

Desolutional [email protected]/4.0---2667Mhz-C12-12-11-28-1T----1.40v---SA 1.03v---Stressapptest----2 Hours
VCCIN: 1.92V
VCCIO: 1.20V
tRTP=4, tFAW=16, tREFI=23000, tRFC=300


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Ah thanks, I'll go correct the timings and push another retest, will post back in a few hours. They should really update the BIOS descriptions, it'll make things easier if someone forgets to use the guide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it the DDR3 burst length and DDR4 burst length limit is the same? So all those equivalent rules still apply to DDR4?
> 
> *As with tRRD, setting tFAW below its lowest possible value will result in the memory controller reverting to the lowest possible value (16 DRAM clocks or tRRD * 4).*
> 
> That was why my settings still work I assume?


Yes these timing rules are universal, setting lower and have the system function is purely superficial, as Raja is implying in the guide. The timing dictates the the minimum time to send at least FOUR ACT commands, as is even implied in the number if looking at the name of the timing in the UEFI


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I managed to get 13-15-13-33 3200 MHz stable in GSAT for 2 hours. Working on that second timing, but it's given me trouble this entire process.
> 
> Edit: No can do, it would seem. Don't know why, but that second timing won't go any lower.
> 
> I managed to get 14-16-14-34 3333 MHz stable as well. Time to bench the two and see which is better. I expect the 3200 to perform better from what others on here have said about 3200 and Haswell-E, but I'll let you know.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you got there in the end, and at good speeds no less.
Click to expand...

I know I should be happy that I got to CL13, but that tRCD of 15 still pisses me off. I have a high VCCSA I can try tonight (most I've tried is +1.184V, but I've seen others with much higher), but if that doesn't work I'm going to leave it and focus on lowering all the voltages I can. I think I have some headroom left in VCCIO to come down still - not that my temperatures will improve by doing so.

As for the benchmarks, RealBench showed the 3200MHz 13-15-13-33-1T as better (175000 vs. 174000 system score), whereas AIDA64 showed the 3333MHz 14-16-14-34 to be the better performer despite the fact that the cache frequency is 25MHz lower for the 3333MHz RAM due to using a higher strap. I'm leaning towards going with the 3200MHz as temperatures are slightly lower overall with the lower strap.


----------



## Silent Scone

I would stay where you are after the fiasco you've had. However if not I would try 13-14-14 or 13-13-14. Setting tRP one clock higher instead may help


----------



## KedarWolf

SilentScone, can you update my entry? Last one I couldn't get stable without raising voltages too high for CPU 4.8/4.5 and want an entry that I run on my PC 24/7. This one is RealBench, stressapptest and AIDA64 Extreme cache stress test stable. I ran them last night, forgot to make screenshots of RealBench and AIDA. I will run them again tonight and add screens.









KedarWolf--TUF Sabertooth X99 motherboard--i7 [email protected]/4.4--CPU Adaptive 1.258v Additional Voltage--Cache Offset .353/1.213v-- RAM 3200Mhz C16-16-17-34-1T 1.41v--SA Offset .320/1.12v--CPU Input 1.92v--LLC 5--Stressapptest 1 Hour, RealBench Stress Test 1 Hour, AIDA cache stress test 3 hours.













AIDA64 cache and memory benchmark, RealBench and AIDA64 cache stress test results below.










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











Hey peeps, Scone might have a life outside of overclock.net, these things happen from time to time, so maybe we can be considerate if they miss an entry or can't do it right away when we post one.


----------



## KedarWolf

Added Sig.


----------



## tux1989

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Added Sig.


In realbench i saw that you use only 4gb ram for stress test but you have 32gb


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tux1989*
> 
> In realbench i saw that you use only 4gb ram for stress test but you have 32gb


Yeah, didn't change it from default, you can only run 16gb without having a large page anyways and I tested memory with GSAT anyways. I'm only trying to stress test the CPU.

I don't want to it to continually writing to my SSD while stress testing which I think it would with a large page file and on 32gb setting.


----------



## Arctucas

I noticed that when I was running RealBench, it would fail because I normally do not use a pagefile.

I simply set the pagefile to system managed, ran the test, then reset it to no pagefile.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> I noticed that when I was running RealBench, it would fail because I normally do not use a pagefile.
> 
> I simply set the pagefile to system managed, ran the test, then reset it to no pagefile.


I know if you have 32GB of RAM and want to run RealBench with the 32GB setting etc. you need to make the page file a bit bigger then the amount of RAM so 33000MB or so but not sure if it'll work as well with a system managed page file.









Edit: But like I said I won't do that so RealBench doesn't keep writing to my SSD in the page file to save wear and tear on my SSD.

Second edit: Below is an actual picture of the page file writing to an SSD while running RealBench


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I would stay where you are after the fiasco you've had. However if not I would try 13-14-14 or 13-13-14. Setting tRP one clock higher instead may help


I should have time to test those tonight.

On a side note to people here, I recall people changing a timing that allows the RAM to transfer more data before the voltages and such are refreshed. Doing so allows them to get a higher bandwidth measurement in benchmarks, for example. Is this the row refresh rate that CPU-Z reports with the other primary timings and command rate, tRFC? I've tried to find out other information on this but Google is not giving me good results - or at least not recent ones where the numbers correlate to DDR4's higher frequencies. Seems to me this timing would be the next one to delve into to improve performance (if I get enough free time until the next computer game I want comes out). From what I've read, it isn't clear whether it should be higher or lower (explanations for this are counter-intuitive, anyway), and it seems to be independently determined from the other timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I should have time to test those tonight.
> 
> On a side note to people here, I recall people changing a timing that allows the RAM to transfer more data before the voltages and such are refreshed. Doing so allows them to get a higher bandwidth measurement in benchmarks, for example. Is this the row refresh rate that CPU-Z reports with the other primary timings and command rate, tRFC? I've tried to find out other information on this but Google is not giving me good results - or at least not recent ones where the numbers correlate to DDR4's higher frequencies. Seems to me this timing would be the next one to delve into to improve performance (if I get enough free time until the next computer game I want comes out). From what I've read, it isn't clear whether it should be higher or lower (explanations for this are counter-intuitive, anyway), and it seems to be independently determined from the other timings.


it's dram refresh interval or tREFI. Best to leave this on auto if you use ram disks or sleep. (suspend to ram). Otherwise 2x what the board sets o9n auto is worth trying.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it's dram refresh interval or tREFI. Best to leave this on auto if you use ram disks or sleep. (suspend to ram). Otherwise 2x what the board sets o9n auto is worth trying.


Is there any real use throughput increase with this, or just mainly benchmarking?


----------



## mus1mus

3333 - 13-14-13-30 at 1.5V
VCCSA at +0.200





variance seems a bit high!

Any link for the Asrock Configurator?


----------



## stargate125645

Those are pretty awesome timings for that VCCSA and frequency!


----------



## mus1mus

Yeah. I am pushing her to give in at 13-13-13-30 but she's that hard to get!


----------



## cookiesowns

Hrm..

So my sticks posts at 3466 @ C15 @ 1.4V but definitely not stable. I don't think mine will do 3400+ @ C14 like JPM's


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Hrm..
> 
> So my sticks posts at 3466 @ C15 @ 1.4V but definitely not stable. I don't think mine will do 3400+ @ C14 like JPM's


3200 is the best ratio still for 24/7


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 3200 is the best ratio still for *Haswell-E* 24/7


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Hrm..
> 
> So my sticks posts at 3466 @ C15 @ 1.4V but definitely not stable. I don't think mine will do 3400+ @ C14 like JPM's


Is this with your 5960X?

Which strap?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Is this with your 5960X?
> 
> Which strap?


I'd appreciate if you didn't edit my posts, considering you've since made it now incorrect. It applies to all CPU on the platform.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'd appreciate if you didn't edit my posts, considering you've since made it now incorrect. It applies to all CPU on the platform.


LOL Why is that incorrect? your statement was just a opinion. What make's 3200Mhz the best ratio? because you can run it on 100 strap? or most cpu's should be able to handle 3200Mhz ? Or because you said so?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> LOL Why is that incorrect? your statement was just a opinion. What make's 3200Mhz the best ratio? because you can run it on 100 strap? or most cpu's should be able to handle 3200Mhz ? Or because you said so?


Because if looking simply beyond recognition for screenshots, when considering the voltage and sub timing relationship with the frequency, 3200 is the best ratio. Beyond this the scaling for certain predefined settings scale up quite a bit.

Obviously you might not realise this yourself, as you don't own a BWE CPU.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'd appreciate if you didn't edit my posts, considering you've since made it now incorrect. It applies to all CPU on the platform.


Okay.

I'd agree given more BW-E samples.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> 3333 - 13-14-13-30 at 1.5V
> VCCSA at +0.200
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variance seems a bit high!
> 
> Any link for the Asrock Configurator?


 TimingConfiguratorv4.0.3.zip 2879k .zip file


TimingConfiguratorv3.0.5.zip 2619k .zip file

one of these will work with your 5960X/R5E.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Hrm..
> 
> So my sticks posts at 3466 @ C15 @ 1.4V but definitely not stable. I don't think mine will do 3400+ @ C14 like JPM's


Is that with your 6950X? If yes, 3400 should be doable. (2T, mode 3).


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









For HWE.. 3200 is def the least resistance. Started as and has held up as the strongest memory ratio on this platform IMO. 6950x/R5E(10) ... 3400 seems best with the current crop of sticks. 3466 is doable, but gained nothing in performance that I could tell.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Is there any real use throughput increase with this, or just mainly benchmarking?


if aid64 throughput is real then yes.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ...
> 
> if aid64 throughput is real then yes.


Well, I guess nothing wrong with looking good







.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Well, I guess nothing wrong with looking good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That depends on your usage... Comparing 6950x to dual 2690v4 core-for-core, I'm finding my applications reflect aida64's memory throughput quite directly.

That is to say, even constrained to 8 cores, a generally decently scaling, but real-world (i.e. cores do communicate, share memory, synchronize, etc...) application (that I cannot name) is showing me that this application is primarily constrained by memory throughput, but not just on a given bank, but all banks combined.

The 2xXeonx2400DDR4 setup has an overall memory throughput of 115-125GB/s (over both CPUs) according to Aida64.

Constrained to 8 cores the 3.2GHz Xeonx2400DDR4 is running the same application in the same time or better doing the same work as the 4.4GHzx3000DDR4. At lower clock speeds, the logical explanation for this is that parallel functionality is able to move data through 8 channels of memory better than 4 (not surprisingly) and correspondingly the faster 6950x cores must be spending more time waiting for data.

So, its not all muscle-shirts and hair-gel.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Because if looking simply beyond recognition for screenshots, *when considering the voltage and sub timing relationship with the frequency, 3200 is the best ratio. Beyond this the scaling for certain predefined settings scale up quite a bit.*
> 
> Obviously you might not realise this yourself, as you don't own a BWE CPU.


That is why we have setting's for us to change voltage , timings and frequency in the bios overriding these (predefined) settings.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'd appreciate if you didn't edit my posts, considering you've since made it now incorrect. It applies to all CPU on the platform.


According to you all cpu's on x99 platform so it shouldn't matter if i have a BWE cpu or not


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> That is why we have setting's for us to change voltage , timings and frequency in the bios overriding these (predefined) settings.
> According to you all cpu's on x99 platform so it shouldn't matter if i have a BWE cpu or not


Don't take this personally, but Is that why your screenshots for any frequency above this have laxed sub timings?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Don't take this personally, but Is that why your screenshots for any frequency above this have laxed sub timings?


That's why my higher frequency looser timing's have better numbers in aida64 cache and memory bench than lower and tighter.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> That's why my higher frequency looser timing's have better numbers in aida64 cache and memory bench than lower and tighter?


I guess that is the problem. You are looking at this in black and white which is something you tend to do a lot.

If you show some comparisons with all the relative voltages and timings in tow with stability results, then perhaps it would be easier to get through to you why these things have a balance or sweet spot where the scaling becomes steep.

It's especially more difficulty to do so in your case as HWE isn't capable of running higher densities at those speeds with all the sub timings at or close to their minimal spacing.

For example screenshots of 3466 and 3600 with the timings and voltages you've shown in past is not any kind of sweet spot. Seems to me you are just out to make a point at whatever cost without understanding where the balance is with these things.


----------



## Praz

Hello

All this talk of optimal memory settings and speeds is interesting but I think it is all for naught. There has been at least 3 entries posted in the last week or so in this thread that most likely would not even boot if the motherboard was not overriding the user settings.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> All this talk of optimal memory settings and speeds is interesting but I think it is all for naught. There has been at least 3 entries posted in the last week or so in this thread that most likely would not even boot *if the motherboard was not overriding the user settings*.


Heh...









Would be nice if the UEFI turned invalid values red in the UEFI when doing silly mistakes like that.


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Is that with your 6950X? If yes, 3400 should be doable. (2T, mode 3).
> 
> For HWE.. 3200 is def the least resistance. Started as and has held up as the strongest memory ratio on this platform IMO. 6950x/R5E(10) ... 3400 seems best with the current crop of sticks. 3466 is doable, but gained nothing in performance that I could tell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if aid64 throughput is real then yes.


Yes, 6950X, 3200 C14 8x8GB kit. 3466 posted just fine, was able to run a few runs of A64, but, when I fired up HCI, it was a instant crash. Not sure if BSOD, massive Ram instability, or potentially cache/SA needed some tweaking. However I was very impressed though, literally just raised voltage to 1.4, loosened primaries to C15 flat, divider to 3466, no other tweaks, and BAM into windows.

But judging from the venture, I don't think my sticks are nearly as good as you.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I guess that is the problem. You are looking at this in black and white which is something you tend to do a lot.
> 
> If you show some comparisons with all the relative voltages and timings in tow with stability results, then perhaps it would be easier to get through to you why these things have a balance or sweet spot where the scaling becomes steep.
> 
> It's especially more difficulty to do so in your case as HWE isn't capable of running higher densities at those speeds with all the sub timings at or close to their minimal spacing.
> 
> For example screenshots of 3466 and 3600 with the timings and voltages you've shown in past is not any kind of sweet spot. Seems to me you are just out to nake a point at whatever cost without understanding where the balance is with these things.


lol yeah sure. Im afraid you got it backwards and are looking at it in black and white. You tend to claim you know it all but in fact you don't know jack.









Of course you have to find a sweet spot. every one is going to have there own sweet spot depending on what there ram and cpu is capable of.

My point is you need to find out on your own what your systems (sweet spot) is.

This can easily be done by using aida64 cache and memory benchmark to find out what frequency timing combination gives the best results.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lol yeah sure. Im afraid you got it backwards and are looking at it in black and white. You tend to claim you know it all but in fact you don't know jack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you have to find a sweet spot. every one is going to have there own sweet spot depending on what there ram and cpu is capable of.
> 
> My point is you need to find out on your own what your systems (sweet spot) is.
> 
> This can easily be done by using aida64 cache and memory benchmark to find out what frequency timing combination gives the best results.


Their own sweet spot?

I think that proves you still don't understand. Come back when you can show what I've asked, or not at all. Albeit that would partly involve you having one of the CPU in question.

It's pretty evident you have my face on a dart board in your bedroom.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Their own sweet spot?
> 
> I think that proves you still don't understand. Come back when you can show what I've asked, or not at all. It's pretty evident you have my face on a dart board in your bedroom.


There own sweet spot means the best performance and stability available. At least in my book
3200Mhz 14-14-14-32-1 - Auto

3600Mhz 16-16-16-38-1-Auto



higher frequency is usually better so why not try it and tighten timings as tight as possible on all capable ratio's ( 3200Mhz / 3400Mhz/ 3466Mhz and 3600Mhz) and compare the result's.
Simple way of finding the (sweetspot).


----------



## Silent Scone

Thank you for those, those timings are certainly interesting. I guess those are your own personal sweet spot lol

Maybe you can also show us your OC socket settings for both configs used in the screenshots.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thank you for those, those timings are certainly interesting. I guess those are your own personal sweet spot lol
> 
> Maybe you can also show us your OC socket settings for both configs used in the screenshots.


LOL you are pathetic.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> LOL you are pathetic.


That's great, but read my first post again in reply to your first post directed at me regarding scaling. All these things scale with frequency. Maybe you can show us where you think you've found your sweet spot.

You seem to be hung up on performance, and you asked why i mentioned 3200, so far all you have shown is that your seconds are a far cry from what is possible with Broadwell at that frequency, and not a lot else.

Just remember who questioned who


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> LOL you are pathetic.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's great, but read my first post again in reply to your first post directed at me regarding scaling. All these things scale with frequency. Maybe you can show us where you think you've found your sweet spot.
> 
> You seem to be hung up on performance, and you asked why i mentioned 3200, so far all you have shown is that your seconds are a far cry from what is possible with Broadwell at that frequency, and not a lot else.
> 
> Just remember who questioned who
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My answer is above.
Click to expand...


----------



## [email protected]

There's usually a fairly significant big jump between 3200 and 3400+ on the SA/OC Socket side - depends how things are setup, but they often need a sizable hike. For the masses, it's usually best to opt for the kinder operating point.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> That depends on your usage... Comparing 6950x to dual 2690v4 core-for-core, I'm finding my applications reflect aida64's memory throughput quite directly.
> 
> That is to say, even constrained to 8 cores, a generally decently scaling, but real-world (i.e. cores do communicate, share memory, synchronize, etc...) application (that I cannot name) is showing me that this application is primarily constrained by memory throughput, but not just on a given bank, but all banks combined.
> 
> The 2xXeonx2400DDR4 setup has an overall memory throughput of 115-125GB/s (over both CPUs) according to Aida64.
> 
> Constrained to 8 cores the 3.2GHz Xeonx2400DDR4 is running the same application in the same time or better doing the same work as the 4.4GHzx3000DDR4. At lower clock speeds, the logical explanation for this is that parallel functionality is able to move data through 8 channels of memory better than 4 (not surprisingly) and correspondingly the faster 6950x cores must be spending more time waiting for data.
> 
> *So, its not all muscle-shirts and hair-gel.*











good one!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> All this talk of optimal memory settings and speeds is interesting but I think it is all for naught. There has been at least 3 entries posted in the last week or so in this thread that most likely would not even boot if the motherboard was not overriding the user settings.


shhh.. you'll ruin the illusion.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Yes, 6950X, 3200 C14 8x8GB kit. 3466 posted just fine, was able to run a few runs of A64, but, when I fired up HCI, it was a instant crash. Not sure if BSOD, massive Ram instability, or potentially cache/SA needed some tweaking. However I was very impressed though, literally just raised voltage to 1.4, loosened primaries to C15 flat, divider to 3466, no other tweaks, and BAM into windows.
> 
> But judging from the venture, I don't think my sticks are nearly as good as you.


With the 64GB kit I'm using.. 1T is basically impossible above 2666, so learning to love the bomb (2T) it did allow tightening up some other timings with the net effect being pretty good. With Mode 3 and 2T I can't complain about the performance @ 64gb. okay... I stopped complaining.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> yeah there own sweet spot. If you don't understand that it just proves to me how much of an ____ you are. you do got one thing right thou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> There own sweet spot means the best performance and stability available. At least in my book
> 3200Mhz 14-14-14-32-1 - Auto
> 
> 3600Mhz 16-16-16-38-1-Auto
> 
> 
> 
> 
> higher frequency is usually better so why not try it and tighten timings as tight as possible on all capable ratio's ( 3200Mhz / 3400Mhz/ 3466Mhz and 3600Mhz) and compare the result's.
> Simple way of finding the (sweetspot).


are you running 3600 on that HWE "regularly? And did you set those IOLs to 1 or did the board???


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> There's usually a fairly significant big jump between 3200 and 3400+ on the SA/OC Socket side - depends how things are setup, but they often need a sizable hike. For the masses, it's usually best to opt for the kinder operating point.


Yes i agree.
For a understanding of my oc socket settings.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1540939/gigabyte-x99-soc-champion-discussion-ownerss-club/1150_50#post_25440676

3600Mhz and i need to adjust VL4 to 1.44v

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good one!
> shhh.. you'll ruin the illusion.
> With the 64GB kit I'm using.. 1T is basically impossible above 2666, so learning to love the bomb (2T) it did allow tightening up some other timings with the net effect being pretty good. With Mode 3 and 2T I can't complain about the performance @ 64gb. okay... I stopped complaining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you running 3600 on that HWE "regularly? And did you set those IOLs to 1 or did the board???


No i run 3200Mhz Cl14 with tight secondaries @ 1.38v. CL 13 needs close to 1.5v and DIMM temps in the 50c range at that voltage. It seems my kit is much better at higher frequency apposed to lower and tighter timings. 3600Mhz i have no problems with just haven't put in the time to tweak and lower timings enough for better performance than my 3200Mhz oc.

Edit manually set iol's


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yes i agree.
> For a understanding of my oc socket settings.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1540939/gigabyte-x99-soc-champion-discussion-ownerss-club/1150_50#post_25440676


That's why I stay at 3200 or under on my 24/7 systems, as well. That ratio has a good range, so is less conditional in everyday usage.


----------



## djgar

I use MemTweakIt and do several quick memory speed tests to see if a particular odd setting is actually making a difference. If the MB is overriding it then there would not be a consistently noticeable diff. Don't laugh, but I use Window's *winsat* utility to do a bunch of quick memory tests and see if there's a noticeable change one way or the other







.


----------



## Silent Scone

Appears we have gone full circle here, then. Glad we all agree, vendettas aside lol.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Appears we have gone full circle here, then. Glad we all agree, vendettas aside lol.


For now. lol

I know i can be a douch. I'm sorry, i just cant help myself sometimes.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> For now. lol
> 
> I know i can be a douch. I'm sorry, i just cant help myself sometimes.


Yes, we can all have bad days. That doesn't really explain why you went out of your way to prove something I said was wrong, when you're own daily settings say otherwise. Very confusing!


----------



## mus1mus

So, RTLs or Timings?









What's everyone's preference?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> So, RTLs or Timings?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's everyone's preference?


Both.

Memory timings are most dependent on the ICs and binning, but RTLs are more dependent on the memory controller.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Both.
> 
> Memory timings are most dependent on the ICs and binning, but *RTLs are more dependent on the memory controller*.


Nice info.

Thanks


----------



## superkyle1721

For RTLs to reduce them do you set manual to what's set then slowly reduce by 1 or is there a process to it that will be more likely to boot? Also which voltage effects RTLs? I'm curious as I've never messed with them outside to ensure memory is trained properly.


----------



## Silent Scone

For the purpose of this thread, these can be left to the board. As we've recently witnessed, there are types who feel this is not edgy enougb for them and are looking to push limits for the sake of screenshots, or benchmarking, Adjusting RTL / IOL is one of those instances. If looking to experiment, you won't find much range here if looking for stability in tests such as GSAT.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Heh...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would be nice if the UEFI turned invalid values red in the UEFI when doing silly mistakes like that.


Hello

I'm sure the lack of warnings are somewhat influenced by the mindset of the BIOS engineers. Doubtful that they would give much consideration to the possibility that a user is changing timings that are not understood. Also I imagine theses checks would get quite complicated for settings whose validity were dependent on other values that were not yet applied.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> shhh.. you'll ruin the illusion.


Hello

No illusion busting from me. I don't point out the obvious anymore. The posted screenshots show the basics are not understood and yet the topic has now turned to setting RTLs. Kind of ironic really.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> For the purpose of this thread, these can be left to the board. As we've recently witnessed, there are types who feel this is not edgy enougb for them and are looking to push limits for the sake of screenshots, or benchmarking, Adjusting RTL / IOL is one of those instances. If looking to experiment, you won't find much range here if looking for stability in tests such as GSAT.


The easiest way to tweak RTL etc. is to lower DRAM Write Latency one notch at a time, reboot, then when you lower it and it won't boot, put it back one notch higher. I believe this setting adjusts the RTL automatically. On my 128GB at 2666 lowest it'll go is 9, on my 32GB 3200 lowest it'll go is 14. And my RTLs go lower the lower I adjust the DRAM Write Latency.









Edit: I figured this out when I found out if I manually set the RTLs my PC wouldn't boot and I looked for a work around.


----------



## mus1mus

That's just an ignorant way to say things. If you look at them well enough, RTLs can either help in Performance and/or Stability.

Some Boards have the habit of turning them low enough to avoid stability when left to Auto. Pretty much like the secondaries when left to the board's mercy, matter of fact.

You surely didn't start this thread to push away folks that wants to know how to set things up properly both in the Performance aspect as much as Stability did you?


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> No illusion busting from me. I don't point out the obvious anymore. The posted screenshots show the basics are not understood and yet the topic has now turned to setting RTLs. Kind of ironic really.


I mean this with all due respect as many of you have help my obtain the level of knowledge I currently have when it comes to memory clocking and for that I am thankful. With that said many including myself use the forums as a learning tool. Personally I do not understand bashing people for not being at the same level as you. If someone is doing something wrong by all means point it out and say hey "I know you set your timings to this but the MB is actually overriding those timings to this bc otherwise it would cause instability". There is no need to be pretentious with anything we are a community.


----------



## KedarWolf

I hope when I'm an overclock.net veteran years down the road I never get into the condescending "I'm right, you are wrong, how dare you question my statements here in the forum."

I believe that we should respect everyone here no matter their level of skill. Healthy debate is fine, but the 'I'm a pro at this and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.' kind of attitudes just cause contention and make the person or people in question seem like elitist jerks.

On the other hand new people and those without the level of experience of others here would do well to respect the veterans of this forum and acknowledge the contribution they have and do make here, it's a two headed coin.

I try to avoid the drama when I can but watching some go on and on in posts in ways like I mention can be kind of disheartening.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> I mean this with all due respect as many of you have help my obtain the level of knowledge I currently have when it comes to memory clocking and for that I am thankful. With that said many including myself use the forums as a learning tool. Personally I do not understand bashing people for not being at the same level as you. If someone is doing something wrong by all means point it out and say hey "I know you set your timings to this but the MB is actually overriding those timings to this bc otherwise it would cause instability". There is no need to be pretentious with anything we are a community.


Hello

No disrespect taken. I think all of us take the approach you have just laid out. However, when I state the same thing over an over again I start to sound like my parrots with constant repeating. After literally pages of discussions concerning these things I reach a point of just moving on.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> For RTLs to reduce them do you set manual to what's set then slowly reduce by 1 or is there a process to it that will be more likely to boot? Also which voltage effects RTLs? I'm curious as I've never messed with them outside to ensure memory is trained properly.


word of advice.. if you start messing with IOLs, make sure you have a fresh OS image handy.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes i agree.
> For a understanding of my oc socket settings.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1540939/gigabyte-x99-soc-champion-discussion-ownerss-club/1150_50#post_25440676
> 
> 3600Mhz and i need to adjust VL4 to 1.44v
> No i run 3200Mhz Cl14 with tight secondaries @ 1.38v. CL 13 needs close to 1.5v and DIMM temps in the 50c range at that voltage. It seems my kit is much better at higher frequency apposed to lower and tighter timings. 3600Mhz i have no problems with just haven't put in the time to tweak and lower timings enough for better performance than my 3200Mhz oc.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit manually set iol's


Thx. I would have been surprised (or maybe amazed is a better term) if the GB board set them to 1 considering the tWCL set. Tho it is a 4-dimm board.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> No disrespect taken. I think all of us take the approach you have just laid out. However, when I state the same thing over an over again I start to sound like my parrots with constant repeating. After literally pages of discussions concerning these things I reach a point of just moving on.


Oh trust me I understand where you are coming from. I can't speak for others but I can say that I by no means have a full or even half understanding of memory timings. The issue I have found is that the web is so packed full of primary timing adjustments and speed settings it's become very difficult to find the relationship of secondary and tertiary timings as well as RTLs. Heck I do not think I've read a single post that really explains what it even is haha. With that said if I ask a dumb question I apologize but am only trying to learn why it's dumb haha.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> For RTLs to reduce them do you set manual to what's set then slowly reduce by 1 or is there a process to it that will be more likely to boot? Also which voltage effects RTLs? I'm curious as I've never messed with them outside to ensure memory is trained properly.


See this.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2580#post_25469266


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> word of advice.. if you start messing with IOLs, make sure you have a fresh OS image handy.


Ha thanks I would have been real sad later. Speaking of dumb questions I know that tRAS = tCL + tRCD + tRP and with my timings (14, 15, 15, 30) tRAS is clearly being overridden by the motherboard. My question is when I set it properly to say 44 there is a drop in throughput measured by Aida. How is this possible given all timings are set to manual including RTLs and IOLs. Leaving RTLs and IOLs to auto sets the same timings as static which I though was the cause at first.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> See this.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2580#post_25469266


Thanks I will check it out when I get home I plan on playing around later today so this will be added to the list of things to learn!


----------



## Silent Scone

Considering the person who approached this subject is already using invalid timings, i think that's a perfect reason not to approach the subject.

It's not about who is right and who is wrong, or more experienced and is being condescending. It's about stopping people from straying from the path. Which can be tricky when the board is clever enough to correct these mistakes. If anyone is being condescending, it's Intel.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Considering the person who approached this subject is already using invalid timings, i think that's a perfect reason not to approach the subject.
> 
> It's not about who is right and who is wrong, or more experienced and isnbeing condescending. It's about stopping people from straying from the path which can be tricky when the board is clever enough to correct these mistakes. If anyone is being condescending, it's Intel.


Touché! I understand completely if you don't mind me asking I'm guessing you are referring me to when stating I am using improper timings. Do you mind telling me what is improper?


----------



## Silent Scone

I've not looked at all entries yet, but the subject was covered only days ago on the last page, and the same mistake was then made by another user.

Surely you can see the frustration in this? You've got people just itching to play with settings like round trip latency when they're not even using valid secondary timings, which are worth adjusting correctly.


----------



## mus1mus

Point the mistake and the certain post please.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Point the mistake and the certain post please.


I'm on my phone, so didn't want to pull it up at that moment, if you look at my reply to Desolutional and then at your own settings, it should become apparent though.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> See this.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2580#post_25469266


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've not looked at all entries yet, but the subject was covered only days ago on the last page, and the same mistake was then made by another user.
> 
> Surely you can see the frustration in this? You've got people just itching to play with settings like round trip latency when they're not even using valid secondary timings, which are worth adjusting correctly.


Ahh yes I remember a post talking about setting four active window incorrectly. Apologies as if a post doesn't directly apply to me (as in daily certain I set it correctly) I tend to just skim over and forget it.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The timings are invalid. These spacing are denoted in the ROG Timing guide in the OP, and have been covered a number of times already in here. Things like this just set out to confuse others


This is the post he is referring to.
It refers to setting tFAW incorrectly (below the limit)


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'm on my phone, so didn't want to pull it up at that moment, if you look at my reply to Desolutional and then at your own settings, it should become apparent though.


My settings are bad?

Well then, this is why I said you need to manually set things sometimes.

Coz If I didn't, the board auto set things lower.









TCKE of 4 anyone?
And a 3200 C13 with RTLs of 47/45/47/45


----------



## Desolutional

Basic points I've learnt:


Push 1' timings down a notch until you fail GSAT within 10 minutes. Push back up by 2 for each 1' timing that causes that issue and you should have a roughly stable set for testing. Fine tuning can be done by dropping another notch after successfully completing 2 hours.
tRAS should be set to a recommended minimum of (CAS+tRCD+tRTP).
Set Command Rate to 1T, definitely helps with performance and is an easy toggle to check at stock XMP settings.
*tRRD, tWTR and tRTP has a minimum of 4, don't go lower.*
tREFI is the opposite of traditional timings, higher is better; useful for benchmarks. Too high a value and this can incur instability during sleep and other periods of time where DRAM contents are kept the same. Can be tested with memtest86+ or by placing Windows in sleep (make a disk image before testing with a live OS).
*The lowest you can set tFAW is always 4 times the tRRD, i.e. tRRD*4. Set tRRD lower (but not lower than 4) to reduce this timing. Also, the lowest this can go is 16 numerically as tRRD must not go below 4.*


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> No illusion busting from me. I don't point out the obvious anymore. The posted screenshots show the basics are not understood and yet the topic has now turned to setting RTLs. Kind of ironic really.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean this with all due respect as many of you have help my obtain the level of knowledge I currently have when it comes to memory clocking and for that I am thankful. With that said many including myself use the forums as a learning tool. Personally I do not understand bashing people for not being at the same level as you. If someone is doing something wrong by all means point it out and say hey "I know you set your timings to this but the MB is actually overriding those timings to this bc otherwise it would cause instability". There is no need to be pretentious with anything we are a community.
Click to expand...

The elitist-appearing attitude comes off in responses that are vague in my experience. They may not be vague to the poster responding, but they are to the person seeking help. How many posts could be saved if people were more explicit? That would solve a lot of repeat posts and frustration on threads like these. It would also make searching for answers before asking a question much more fruitful. Vagueness is a larger problem on these forums (edit: much like grammar is).


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Basic points I've learnt:
> 
> 
> Push 1' timings down a notch until you fail GSAT within 10 minutes. Push back up by 2 for each 1' timing that causes that issue and you should have a roughly stable set for testing. Fine tuning can be done by dropping another notch after successfully completing 2 hours.
> tRAS should be set to a recommended minimum of (CAS+tRCD+tRTP).
> Set Command Rate to 1T, definitely helps with performance and is an easy toggle to check at stock XMP settings.
> *tRRD, tWTR and tRTP has a minimum of 4, don't go lower.*
> tREFI is the opposite of traditional timings, higher is better; useful for benchmarks. Too high a value and this can incur instability during sleep and other periods of time where DRAM contents are kept the same. Can be tested with memtest86+ or by placing Windows in sleep (make a disk image before testing with a live OS).
> *The lowest you can set tFAW is always 4 times the tRRD, i.e. tRRD*4. Set tRRD lower (but not lower than 4) to reduce this timing. Also, the lowest this can go is 16 numerically as tRRD must not go below 4.*


Below is the trick I use to get second and third timings low stable without having to adjust each one one notch, test, do again, etc.

"To get the RAM third timings I set my RAM at 16-16-17-34 1T Manual, not XMP at 3200MHZ with everything on Auto except DRAM Ref Cycle Time 278, DRAM Refresh Interval (tREFI) 22066, Read To Pre Time (tRTP) 4, Four ACT Win Time (tFAW) 16, CAS Write Latency 14 (tWCL) but you want it lowest it'll boot at, tRWDR2 5, tRWDD 5, tWRSR2 4 which I tested stable at those settings first with stressapptest. CKE Minimal Pulse Width (tCKE) is best left on Auto. I didn't change RTL IOL settings or IO Control settings.

Then I changed the memory to 2200MHZ, rebooted, manually set all the timings to what it was showing as on Auto for all secondary and third timings except the above what I already verified as stable. Then rebooted at 3200. Then I ran stresapptest again, passed, wouldn't pass if I did the same with 2133MHZ Auto settings.

This is how I quickly got good third timings, trick is get it stable with the first set of tweaks that work for you, then get it working with the rest stable with the lowest RAM speed Auto settings you stay stable at at your set RAM speed."


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Point the mistake and the certain post please.


Please peeps, I beg you, can you tell me why people drive on a parkway and park on a driveway?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> My settings are bad?
> 
> Well then, this is why I said you need to manually set things sometimes.
> 
> Coz If I didn't, the board auto set things lower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCKE of 4 anyone?
> And a 3200 C13 with RTLs of 47/45/47/45


Are you claiming the board set the sub timings in that post?


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Are you claiming the board set the sub timings in that post?


I certainly don't understand those. I admit.

But I can show you a proof.







wait Sunday. Just in case you haven't seen one.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> I certainly don't understand those. I admit.
> 
> But I can show you a proof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wait Sunday.


I don't want proof, the board knows what these values need to be. As i was saying before, best to get to terms with these if adjusting them, before looking at diving deeper. This is what I would do, and have done


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I don't want proof, the board knows what these values need to be. As i was saying before, best to get to terms with these if adjusting them, before looking at diving deeper. This is what I would do, and have done


Don't worry, I will not be posting a proofs to say you are wrong and whatnot. But to say, all I did was to tighten/relax them down lower/higher than what the board sets them to.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Ha thanks I would have been real sad later. Speaking of dumb questions I know that tRAS = tCL + tRCD + tRP and with my timings (14, 15, 15, 30) tRAS is clearly being overridden by the motherboard. *My question is when I set it properly to say 44 there is a drop in throughput measured by Aida.* How is this possible given all timings are set to manual including RTLs and IOLs. Leaving RTLs and IOLs to auto sets the same timings as static which I though was the cause at first.
> Thanks I will check it out when I get home I plan on playing around later today so this will be added to the list of things to learn!


if performance is the sole metric, lower tRAS from the calc min (cl+rcd+r*t*p) until the performce you choose to measure declines... stability may not be at the same value. With this 64GB kit on the R5E10/6950X, no more than -2 vs the sum yielded both stability and performance (it's always a compromise)... final "tuning" is pretty empirical once you get to the edge on the combination of specific ram kit, CPU IMC, cache and motherboard.
Any one here would need to see the timings you set manually to "help" any further (if possible).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Don't worry, I will not be posting a proofs to say you are wrong and whatnot. But to say, all I did was to tighten/relax them down lower/higher than what the board sets them to.


Take it like a trooper and put it down to a learning experience


----------



## mus1mus

Don't worry, I am a noob.


----------



## vmanuelgm

vmanuelgm--RV10(0901)[email protected]@3406CL14-15-15-33-1T--1.375v ab&cd--SA 1.136v--VCCIO 1.056v--HCI 300%

Well, Would like you, Scone, to add it to the list, will see if you finally do!!!










PS: Input was a bit high, I turned it back to 1.952v and all ok!!!


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if performance is the sole metric, lower tRAS from the calc min (cl+rcd+r*t*p) until the performce you choose to measure declines... stability may not be at the same value. With this 64GB kit on the R5E10/6950X, no more than -2 vs the sum yielded both stability and performance (it's always a compromise)... final "tuning" is pretty empirical once you get to the edge on the combination of specific ram kit, CPU IMC, cache and motherboard.
> Any one here would need to see the timings you set manually to "help" any further (if possible).


Thanks for the advice and clarification. I wouldn't say performance is my only metric as I'm mainly looking for performance at 24/7 stable settings not just to pass benchmarks.
Here are my current settings. I followed several guide as well as read up on each setting but I'm sure I missed some things as its a lot to process.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Superkyle1721---6700K @4.841/4.841 (BCLK 103 Multi 47/47)---3845Mhz -C14-15-15-30-2T----1.5V---SA 1.225V---1.2VCCIO---Gsat 1-hour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Misc. 3rd timings were too tight and caused a few errors. Set 3rds to auto and was able to pass without issues. Will revisit 3rds later.


----------



## Pepillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> 
> 
> vmanuelgm--RV10(0901)[email protected]@3406CL14-15-15-33-1T--1.375v ab&cd--SA 1.136v--VCCIO 1.056v--HCI 300%
> 
> Well, Would like you, Scone, to add it to the list, will see if you finally do!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Input was a bit high, I turned it back to 1.952v and all ok!!!


Very nice vmanuelgm








But I am sure you can do better, time to time


----------



## vmanuelgm

Thanks Pepillo!!!

Not a bad 24/7 oc for 6950x...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> 
> 
> vmanuelgm--RV10(0901)[email protected]@3406CL14-15-15-33-1T--1.375v ab&cd--SA 1.136v--VCCIO 1.056v--HCI 300%
> 
> Well, Would like you, Scone, to add it to the list, will see if you finally do!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Input was a bit high, I turned it back to 1.952v and all ok!!!


I will add all results over the weekend. It's good to keep in mind that although i've stated the minimum coverage for higher density can be as low as 200% due to the slow coverage time, it's probably a good idea to cover more, or maybe consider GSAT. Or else you may end up coming unstuck, like when you were getting memory errors before.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Thanks for the advice and clarification. I wouldn't say performance is my only metric as I'm mainly looking for performance at 24/7 stable settings not just to pass benchmarks.
> Here are my current settings. I followed several guide as well as read up on each setting but I'm sure I missed some things as its a lot to process.


sorry - a quoted post had dead pic links... which post number or a link maybe?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, we can all have bad days. That doesn't really explain why you went out of your way to prove something I said was wrong, when you're own daily settings say otherwise. Very confusing!


When you claim your opinion is fact i have problems. BWE can clearly handle 3400Mhz on 100 strap so why not run it. Higher frequency's are usually better even if you cant get the sub timings as tight. The user will have to test this to find the best ratio / performance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> word of advice.. if you start messing with IOLs, make sure you have a fresh OS image handy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thx. I would have been surprised (or maybe amazed is a better term) if the GB board set them to 1 considering the tWCL set. Tho it is a 4-dimm board.


Setting IOL's to 1 is for getting my RTL's as tight as possible. This only works that way with the older HWE bios for this board. Newer bios for this board have improved some and IOL's no longer need to be adjusted that low.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> When you claim your opinion is fact i have problems..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> When you claim your opinion is fact i have problems. BWE can clearly handle 3400Mhz on 100 strap so why not run it. Higher frequency's are usually better even if you cant get the sub timings as tight. The user will have to test this to find the best ratio / performance.


I could stoop and once again point out what happened yesterday. Or in fact that you don't have a Broadwell-E CPU. Or in fact that you can't see how certain settings scale above a certain point on Broadwell. Or that you in fact yourself can go above 3200, albeit with highly relaxed subtimings, but then by self admittance tell us you run 3200 on your own system.

Instead i'm deciding to ignore you from this point on.


----------



## superkyle1721

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



quote name="superkyle1721" url="/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2500#post_25435924"]Superkyle1721---6700K @4.841/4.841 (BCLK 103 Multi 47/47)---3845Mhz -C14-15-15-30-2T----1.5V---SA 1.225V---1.2VCCIO---Gsat 1-hour





Misc. 3rd timings were too tight and caused a few errors. Set 3rds to auto and was able to pass without issues. Will revisit 3rds later.[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> sorry - a quoted post had dead pic links... which post number or a link maybe?





[

Thats odd but I was on my phone at the time. This should work.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I will add all results over the weekend. It's good to keep in mind that although i've stated the minimum coverage for higher density can be as low as 200% due to the slow coverage time, it's probably a good idea to cover more, or maybe consider GSAT. Or else you may end up coming unstuck, like when you were getting memory errors before.


I could have had it more time to reach 500 or 600% coverage. Is this enough for HCI or maybe we need to go to 1000%???










I personally think 400-500 is enough, but I might be wrong...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> I could have had it more time to reach 500 or 600% coverage. Is this enough for HCI or maybe we need to go to 1000%???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally think 400-500 is enough, but I might be wrong...


Yes 400 to 500% should be enough, but i would recommend using GSAT also as even 1 hour can be revealing to settings which appear HCI stable. It's up to you


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> For RTLs to reduce them do you set manual to what's set then slowly reduce by 1 or is there a process to it that will be more likely to boot?


I've never been able to get RTLs below 4 to boot without sacrificing something else that makes the reduction pointless, but going from 8 to 4 or 6 is often possible at lower memory speeds, especially if not pushing the uncore too far.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Also which voltage effects RTLs? I'm curious as I've never messed with them outside to ensure memory is trained properly.


VCCSA, VCCIO, and on Gigabyte boards with the OC socket enabled, pretty much all of the VLs. VDIMM can also help, in some cases.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> For the purpose of this thread, these can be left to the board. As we've recently witnessed, there are types who feel this is not edgy enougb for them and are looking to push limits for the sake of screenshots, or benchmarking, Adjusting RTL / IOL is one of those instances. If looking to experiment, you won't find much range here if looking for stability in tests such as GSAT.


At the frequency I run my memory and uncore at, my board defaults to IOLs of 8 on all channels. I can run them at 4 (with a corresponding reduction of RTLs from 49 to 45) and pass any stress test I care to run, with a small bump to VCCSA. This is a pretty solid reduction in latency, and probably one of the largest changes in memory performance from adjusting a single timing value.

At higher frequencies or with different BCLK straps, significant IOL/RTL adjustments get much harder to stabilize.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> The easiest way to tweak RTL etc. is to lower DRAM Write Latency


tWCL should be adjust first, then try reducing IOLs manually. Often it's not possible, but with some configurations it certainly is.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> [*] *tRRD, tWTR and tRTP has a minimum of 4, don't go lower.*


This is the case for tRRD, but I don't believe tWTR or tRTP have a lower limit of 4.

I still have to re-test the effect of tWTR (which I have set to 2) below 4, but tRTP most definitely increased performance and vDIMM requirements on my setup when I changed it from 4 to 3.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Setting IOL's to 1 is for getting my RTL's as tight as possible. This only works that way with the older HWE bios for this board. Newer bios for this board have improved some and IOL's no longer need to be adjusted that low.


I was never able to run IOLs at 1 on my SOC Champion with any firmware, and if anything the newer F22h and beyond (using F22n at the moment) have made running IOLs below default easier for my 5820Ks.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I would stay where you are after the fiasco you've had. However if not I would try 13-14-14 or 13-13-14. Setting tRP one clock higher instead may help


I haven't gotten the 3rd timing tested yet. I had to stop for the night after making sure a higher VCCSA didn't allow me to do even 14 on the second timing. I'll get there tonight hopefully.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> I could have had it more time to reach 500 or 600% coverage. Is this enough for HCI or maybe we need to go to 1000%???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally think 400-500 is enough, but I might be wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes 400 to 500% should be enough, but i would recommend using GSAT also as even 1 hour can be revealing to settings which appear HCI stable. It's up to you
Click to expand...

I concur with this statement. Furthermore, as GSAT is a set time, you will have stress testing done much quicker.

With directions from KedarWolf, which I can find for you (@vmanuelgm) if you're interested, you can get Puppy Linux running on a USB stick and GSAT going in less than half an hour without much effort. It is really a slick process.

Edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Anyone running memory higher than 3200MHz on either Haswell-E or Broadwell-E need to do so with their eyes open. At these speeds OC Socket settings are being manipulated behind the scenes to levels that I personally am not comfortable with for 24/7. I understand how this may not be evident when the available user settings do not give a direct indication of what and to how high of a level voltages are being applied.


This would be the vagueness I mentioned earlier requiring further posting for clarification.







I'm sure there's excellent guidance intended, but not enough information is supplied for someone who actually wants to learn.


----------



## Praz

Hello

Anyone running memory higher than 3200MHz on either Haswell-E or Broadwell-E need to do so with their eyes open. At these speeds OC Socket settings are being manipulated behind the scenes to levels that I personally am not comfortable with for 24/7. I understand how this may not be evident when the available user settings do not give a direct indication of what and to how high of a level voltages are being applied.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> This is the case for tRRD, but I don't believe tWTR or tRTP have a lower limit of 4..


Hello

Both tWTR and tRTP are limited by the burst length. A setting less than 4 will be valid only if the board is applying the value as an offset instead of an absolute.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> quote name="superkyle1721" url="/t/1569364/official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2500#post_25435924"]Superkyle1721---6700K @4.841/4.841 (BCLK 103 Multi 47/47)---3845Mhz -C14-15-15-30-2T----1.5V---SA 1.225V---1.2VCCIO---Gsat 1-hour
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Misc. 3rd timings were too tight and caused a few errors. Set 3rds to auto and was able to pass without issues. Will revisit 3rds later.


Thats odd but I was on my phone at the time. This should work.

[/quote]

okay - pic works.. so I see a few things that may lead to issues either with stability or performance... and certainly are rusulting in a value being subbed which we have no idea what value is used:

1) tREFI is at the abs limit... this required all signals to persist for the longest time permissable. Generally not good, and may compromise other timings forcing them to be loosened.
2) tRFC is very low for that frequency.. same issue as above. 328 oor higher is probably optimal for bench quick with stability
3) Twcl IS WAAAY below CAS. are the settings shown actually stable?
4) FAW is set below 4x tRRD - this is incorrect and a value will be subbed. No idea what value is subbed and can change withg temp or drift as parts age

Clock period in bios should be Auto or 13

I mean that's just a few things I noticed - others here may see things different.

I guess, the point of using values that are not causing timing errors and correction in training is so you KNW what values are being used.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Anyone running memory higher than 3200MHz on either Haswell-E or Broadwell-E need to do so with their eyes open. At these speeds OC Socket settings are being manipulated behind the scenes to levels that I personally am not comfortable with for 24/7. I understand how this may not be evident when the available user settings do not give a direct indication of what and to how high of a level voltages are being applied.


rut-oh. my cpu is being juiced in a clandestine manner - really?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I've never been able to get RTLs below 4 to boot without sacrificing something else that makes the reduction pointless, but going from 8 to 4 or 6 is often possible at lower memory speeds, especially if not pushing the uncore too far.
> VCCSA, VCCIO, and on Gigabyte boards with the OC socket enabled, pretty much all of the VLs. VDIMM can also help, in some cases.
> At the frequency I run my memory and uncore at, my board defaults to IOLs of 8 on all channels. I can run them at 4 (with a corresponding reduction of RTLs from 49 to 45) and pass any stress test I care to run, with a small bump to VCCSA. This is a pretty solid reduction in latency, and probably one of the largest changes in memory performance from adjusting a single timing value.
> 
> At higher frequencies or with different BCLK straps, significant IOL/RTL adjustments get much harder to stabilize.
> tWCL should be adjust first, then try reducing IOLs manually. Often it's not possible, but with some configurations it certainly is.
> This is the case for tRRD, but I don't believe tWTR or tRTP have a lower limit of 4.
> 
> I still have to re-test the effect of tWTR (which I have set to 2) below 4, but tRTP most definitely increased performance and vDIMM requirements on my setup when I changed it from 4 to 3.
> I was never able to run IOLs at 1 on my SOC Champion with any firmware, and if anything the newer F22h and beyond (using F22n at the moment) have made running IOLs below default easier for my 5820Ks.


I've had no problems with IOL's @ 1 till the F22 bios and on. lowest i can get IOL's to now is 8, But RTL's are much tighter.
F22m


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Anyone running memory higher than 3200MHz on either Haswell-E or Broadwell-E need to do so with their eyes open. At these speeds OC Socket settings are being manipulated behind the scenes to levels that I personally am not comfortable with for 24/7. I understand how this may not be evident when the available user settings do not give a direct indication of what and to how high of a level voltages are being applied.


Is this is directed at asus boards? SOC champion we have full control with my setting above.


----------



## [email protected]

That's why DDR4-3200 is a nice operating point for configs up to 32GB. With good DIMMs, you can bring timings down to chipset limits, without voltages needing excessive elevation.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> This is directed at asus boards? SOC champion we have full control with my setting above.


Hello

Actually you don't. But then it doesn't seem you understand what the limited OC Socket settings available to you really do so I can understand the confusion.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Actually you don't. But then it doesn't seem you understand what the limited OC Socket settings available to you really do so I can understand the confusion.


Well maybe you could elaborate on that. and your right i have no idea what they are really doing i just know that what setting help me overclock cache and what settings help me get higher memory frequency.

So please we are all dying to know, could you explain or point us in the right direction on what's really going on? You seem to be very educated in this feild. what kind of schooling would i need to further understand?


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thats odd but I was on my phone at the time. This should work.


okay - pic works.. so I see a few things that may lead to issues either with stability or performance... and certainly are rusulting in a value being subbed which we have no idea what value is used:

1) tREFI is at the abs limit... this required all signals to persist for the longest time permissable. Generally not good, and may compromise other timings forcing them to be loosened.
2) tRFC is very low for that frequency.. same issue as above. 328 oor higher is probably optimal for bench quick with stability
3) Twcl IS WAAAY below CAS. are the settings shown actually stable?
4) FAW is set below 4x tRRD - this is incorrect and a value will be subbed. No idea what value is subbed and can change withg temp or drift as parts age

Clock period in bios should be Auto or 13

I mean that's just a few things I noticed - others here may see things different.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for taking a look! Yes these settings have been used for a little over a week and stressed in all sorts of manners including gsat. No errors from that or memtest86+.
1) I have heard mixed stories about tREFI. On one stance if you have no issues with stability you should max it out. One the other I have heard the maximus hero viii actually sets these values very well and should always be left on auto. Taking what you said into account I think I will move that value back to auto and see what I can do as far as further adjusting terciary timings.
2) If I am not having an issue using the current timings should this value still be adjusted?
3) When I was asking questions on the ram addict club forum the guys there told me that I should always set to a value of 9 despite CAS. Them knowing much more than me I listened haha. Is this a problem ? I only asked bc it was more than ones opinion in the thread to adjust this to 9 despite CAS
4) I know the value of 16 is well below 4*(tRRD)=24. Im guessing 24 is being applied there.. Triyingto reduce tRRD further resulted in code 3E.


----------



## vmanuelgm

So is it better to run the memory at 3200???

By the way, it is harder to reach 3200 100:100 tan 3400 100:100!!!










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> I haven't gotten the 3rd timing tested yet. I had to stop for the night after making sure a higher VCCSA didn't allow me to do even 14 on the second timing. I'll get there tonight hopefully.
> I concur with this statement. Furthermore, as GSAT is a set time, you will have stress testing done much quicker.
> 
> With directions from KedarWolf, which I can find for you (@vmanuelgm) if you're interested, you can get Puppy Linux running on a USB stick and GSAT going in less than half an hour without much effort. It is really a slick process.
> 
> Edit:
> This would be the vagueness I mentioned earlier requiring further posting for clarification.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there's excellent guidance intended, but not enough information is supplied for someone who actually wants to learn.


Could you please tell me how to???

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Both tWTR and tRTP are limited by the burst length. A setting less than 4 will be valid only if the board is applying the value as an offset instead of an absolute.


I just did a bunch of tests with tWTR and tRTP, together and in isolation. I was figuring that since I had generally been adjusting tRAS (and thus tRC) along with tRTP that this might be the source of the difference I had seen earlier and not tRTP or tWTR themselves.

However, this does not appear to be the case; I am consistently getting slightly better performance in WinRAR with tRTP of 3 vs. 4, all other things being equal, as far as I am able to divine. Additionally, setting tRTP below 3 results in a failure to POST, while 3 vs. 4 needs about 20mV more vDIMM for stability. So, it's clearly doing something. Perhaps it's an offset like you say, but I can't find anything that reads memory timings that's indicating this.

tWTR is much less clear. 2 vs. 4 does seem to result in a performance increase, but it's a smaller impact than tRTP (about 5 KiB/s on a test that scores near ~22300), getting close to margin of error, even after averaging many tests in very clean environments with multiple reboots (cold and warm) to account for any possible training variance. I think I'm going to leave it on 2 because the test results are leaning that way and I've already done significant stability testing with that setting.

Is it possible for timings that don't stick to be influencing training routines in some way?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> That's why DDR4-3200 is a nice operating point for configs up to 32GB. With good DIMMs, you can bring timings down to chipset limits, without voltages needing excessive elevation.


oh well, I'm waaay off the Reservation at this point, no sense in turning back... guess I have an on-going robustness test of sorts
The song Suicide Blonde comes to mind.








*64GB*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> okay - pic works.. so I see a few things that may lead to issues either with stability or performance... and certainly are rusulting in a value being subbed which we have no idea what value is used:
> 
> 1) tREFI is at the abs limit... this required all signals to persist for the longest time permissable. Generally not good, and may compromise other timings forcing them to be loosened.
> 2) tRFC is very low for that frequency.. same issue as above. 328 oor higher is probably optimal for bench quick with stability
> 3) Twcl IS WAAAY below CAS. are the settings shown actually stable?
> 4) FAW is set below 4x tRRD - this is incorrect and a value will be subbed. No idea what value is subbed and can change withg temp or drift as parts age
> 
> Clock period in bios should be Auto or 13
> 
> I mean that's just a few things I noticed - others here may see things different.


Thank you very much for taking a look! Yes these settings have been used for a little over a week and stressed in all sorts of manners including gsat. No errors from that or memtest86+.
1) I have heard mixed stories about tREFI. On one stance if you have no issues with stability you should max it out. One the other I have heard the maximus hero viii actually sets these values very well and should always be left on auto. Taking what you said into account I think I will move that value back to auto and see what I can do as far as further adjusting terciary timings.
2) If I am not having an issue using the current timings should this value still be adjusted?
3) When I was asking questions on the ram addict club forum the guys there told me that I should always set to a value of 9 despite CAS. Them knowing much more than me I listened haha. Is this a problem ? I only asked bc it was more than ones opinion in the thread to adjust this to 9 despite CAS
4) I know the value of 16 is well below 4*(tRRD)=24. Im guessing 24 is being applied there.. Triyingto reduce tRRD further resulted in code 3E.[/quote]

1) Try 2x what the board sets on auto.. so far this has been fine with a continuous ram disk (and days of up time) and overnight sleep (suspend to ram) cycles. But there's always an inherent risk.
2) does setting it that low actually improve the performance? If yes, then stand pat.
3) remember, the guys in the ram addict club are fairly extreme in their uses and voltages (which is fine). I'm running 9 with cas 13 also, but got there differently.








4) No idea what value the bios/board/mc is applying to the timing error. By setting it to 4x tRRD you know what value is being used. If you can lower it from there and gain performance and stability/reliability - the board may be running an offset as Praz and Raja have suggested.
These two guys know this sheet like you (we) know your day job... I tend to listen to them, and then wander off the margins at my own risk.


----------



## Blameless

Lower tRFC will scale up performance, with diminishing returns, as far as you care to take it because less time is spent refreshing. However, stability will get flaky very rapidly as you near the minimum values a particular set of ICs can tolerate at a given clock speed. The difference between completely stable (or as close as one can get) and having to reinstall your OS can be razor thin.

tREFI works similarly to tRFC (former is time between refreshes, later is how long a refresh lasts), though higher is better and gains tend to be more linear. The line between stable and unstable is usually much more subtle though as well as more temperature dependent.

With regard to tWCL, you can test and see if the value is actually sticking pretty easy with memory write benchmarks. If it's offering benefit, then there is no reason not to use it, as long as you can be convinced of stability.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Anyone running memory higher than 3200MHz on either Haswell-E or Broadwell-E need to do so with their eyes open. At these speeds OC Socket settings are being manipulated behind the scenes to levels that I personally am not comfortable with for 24/7. I understand how this may not be evident when the available user settings do not give a direct indication of what and to how high of a level voltages are being applied.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> rut-oh. my cpu is being juiced in a clandestine manner - really?


Praz, I've had some situations where I experienced significantly higher voltages than I specified in the BIOS (much as you warn) when I read the Aida measurements, but I'm assuming the reported voltages are correct, hopefully? I ended up putting lower than the expected in the BIOS and by several tries got a reading around what I was looking for.


----------



## greg1184

So I been having issues with my Ram stability at XMP settings at 3200mhz no matter what I do with SA and VCCIO. I lower it down to 3000mhz and it is stable with HCI memtest with auto on SA and VCCIO. Guess I will settle for 3000 and just try to tighten timings or something. Disappointing though since its binned for 3200.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Both tWTR and tRTP are limited by the burst length. A setting less than 4 will be valid only if the board is applying the value as an offset instead of an absolute.


With this idea, it would really help if you or @[email protected] can give us an insight (given your association with Asus) whether Asus applies these values as Offsets or Absolute.

Has this been mentioned elsewhere?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> So I been having issues with my Ram stability at XMP settings at 3200mhz no matter what I do with SA and VCCIO. I lower it down to 3000mhz and it is stable with HCI memtest with auto on SA and VCCIO. Guess I will settle for 3000 and just try to tighten timings or something. Disappointing though since its binned for 3200.


Can you confirm what kit you are using?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Praz, I've had some situations where I experienced significantly higher voltages than I specified in the BIOS (much as you warn) when I read the Aida measurements, but I'm assuming the reported voltages are correct, hopefully? I ended up putting lower than the expected in the BIOS and by several tries got a reading around what I was looking for.


Aida doesn't read the "voltages" Praz is referring to.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Aida doesn't read the "voltages" Praz is referring to.


I am curious as to what voltages are being referred to?


----------



## sabishiihito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> So I been having issues with my Ram stability at XMP settings at 3200mhz no matter what I do with SA and VCCIO. I lower it down to 3000mhz and it is stable with HCI memtest with auto on SA and VCCIO. Guess I will settle for 3000 and just try to tighten timings or something. Disappointing though since its binned for 3200.


I'm guessing those are double-sided 8GB sticks, which put quite a strain on the IMC. I happen to have the same components as you (CPU, mem, mobo) so I can do a test for comparison, though of course the silicon lottery disclaimer applies as always.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> oh well, I'm waaay off the Reservation at this point, no sense in turning back... guess I have an on-going robustness test of sorts
> The song Suicide Blonde comes to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *64GB*
> 
> Thank you very much for taking a look! Yes these settings have been used for a little over a week and stressed in all sorts of manners including gsat. No errors from that or memtest86+.
> 1) I have heard mixed stories about tREFI. On one stance if you have no issues with stability you should max it out. One the other I have heard the maximus hero viii actually sets these values very well and should always be left on auto. Taking what you said into account I think I will move that value back to auto and see what I can do as far as further adjusting terciary timings.
> 2) If I am not having an issue using the current timings should this value still be adjusted?
> 3) When I was asking questions on the ram addict club forum the guys there told me that I should always set to a value of 9 despite CAS. Them knowing much more than me I listened haha. Is this a problem ? I only asked bc it was more than ones opinion in the thread to adjust this to 9 despite CAS
> 4) I know the value of 16 is well below 4*(tRRD)=24. Im guessing 24 is being applied there.. Triyingto reduce tRRD further resulted in code 3E.


1) Try 2x what the board sets on auto.. so far this has been fine with a continuous ram disk (and days of up time) and overnight sleep (suspend to ram) cycles. But there's always an inherent risk.
2) does setting it that low actually improve the performance? If yes, then stand pat.
3) remember, the guys in the ram addict club are fairly extreme in their uses and voltages (which is fine). I'm running 9 with cas 13 also, but got there differently.








4) No idea what value the bios/board/mc is applying to the timing error. By setting it to 4x tRRD you know what value is being used. If you can lower it from there and gain performance and stability/reliability - the board may be running an offset as Praz and Raja have suggested.
These two guys know this sheet like you (we) know your day job... I tend to listen to them, and then wander off the margins at my own risk.







[/quote]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Lower tRFC will scale up performance, with diminishing returns, as far as you care to take it because less time is spent refreshing. However, stability will get flaky very rapidly as you near the minimum values a particular set of ICs can tolerate at a given clock speed. The difference between completely stable (or as close as one can get) and having to reinstall your OS can be razor thin.
> 
> tREFI works similarly to tRFC (former is time between refreshes, later is how long a refresh lasts), though higher is better and gains tend to be more linear. The line between stable and unstable is usually much more subtle though as well as more temperature dependent.
> 
> With regard to tWCL, you can test and see if the value is actually sticking pretty easy with memory write benchmarks. If it's offering benefit, then there is no reason not to use it, as long as you can be convinced of stability.


Hey guys thank you very much for the detailed explanation! I spent some time testing and this is what I found. Note setting were proven stable so the rest is under the assumption all testing was completed at stable operating conditions.
1) changing tREFI to auto then changing it to 2*Auto and finally adjusting it to MAX value shows zero changes in perceived stability and AIDA throughput. I also tested with superPI and 32M receives same time. With that should I just leave the values set to auto or is there something about the longer refresh that will help other things not being seen by this particular test method?
2,3 & 4) Changing both values higher (tRFC to 320, auto then back to 250), ( tFAW from 16 to 24)and( tWCL from 9 to 13) all show very slight but quantifiable improvements in throughput on AIDA with a four run average. So I guess it seems to actually be applying the values so im assuming I should leave these alone since there are no issues?

Again thank you for the help it goes a long way in understanding the relationship between all the timings. maybe @[email protected] can chime in and fill me/us in on what is really going on here.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Lower tRFC will scale up performance, with diminishing returns, as far as you care to take it because less time is spent refreshing. However, stability will get flaky very rapidly as you near the minimum values a particular set of ICs can tolerate at a given clock speed. *The difference between completely stable (or as close as one can get) and having to reinstall your OS can be razor thin.*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> tREFI works similarly to tRFC (former is time between refreshes, later is how long a refresh lasts), though higher is better and gains tend to be more linear. The line between stable and unstable is usually much more subtle though as well as more temperature dependent.
> 
> With regard to tWCL, you can test and see if the value is actually sticking pretty easy with memory write benchmarks. If it's offering benefit, then there is no reason not to use it, as long as you can be convinced of stability.


This is SOOOO important... and the corruption happens without any overt signs or warnings.


----------



## greg1184

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Can you confirm what kit you are using?


G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16Q-32GVKB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-231-942

I manually placed the default xmp settings except the frequency is set at 3000mhz.


----------



## sabishiihito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greg1184*
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16Q-32GVKB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-231-942
> 
> I manually placed the default xmp settings except the frequency is set at 3000mhz.


I don't know why NewEgg shows X99 for that kit when G.Skill only validated it for Z170.

http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16q-32gvkb


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabishiihito*
> 
> I don't know why NewEgg shows X99 for that kit when G.Skill only validated it for Z170.
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16q-32gvkb


This happens a lot. Always check the memory vendors website.


----------



## greg1184

Well that explains a lot. Maybe I should sell it and carefully choose a kit that would work optimally with x99.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> 1) changing tREFI to auto then changing it to 2*Auto and finally adjusting it to MAX value shows zero changes in perceived stability and AIDA throughput.


Going from auto to 2x+ tREFI should show a modest reduction in memory latency and often a minor increase in read bandwidth. Value might not be sticking if you see no change.

Regardless, for messing with either tREFI or tRFC, I'd recommend testing with GSAT for at least two hours with only enough case/board cooling enabled to keep your CPU from overheating. Retention time is heavily dependent on temperature and if you don't test your memory in a worst case scenario you run the risk of any abnormal spike in ambient, dust accumulation, heavy GPU load, or anything else that pushes case temps above normal inducing instability.


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic--i7 5820K @4.55/4.55---3600Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T----1.43v---SA 1.06v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i7 5820K @4.55/4.55---3600Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T----1.43v---SA 1.06v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


Noice!


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Praz, I've had some situations where I experienced significantly higher voltages than I specified in the BIOS (much as you warn) when I read the Aida measurements, but I'm assuming the reported voltages are correct, hopefully? I ended up putting lower than the expected in the BIOS and by several tries got a reading around what I was looking for.


Hello

As Raja wrote this cannot be monitored with AIDA. These voltage also have no effect on the values seen for the user set CPU, cache or memory voltages. The voltages related to the OC Socket should not be considered an applied voltage as one would with the CPU or cache voltage for example. The difference being the OC Socket voltages are manipulated to alter the behavior of the associated internal CPU circuits.

As to my preference of 3200 for 24/7 use consider the following for Broadwell-E. One of the OC Socket rails that is manipulated in conjunction with memory speed is being increased up to 35% higher by Intel over stock memory speed. An OC Socket board may add another 30% or so voltage on top of this if the set memory speed is high enough. A lot of of what is going on with these circuits is shrouded in mystery for all but a few at Intel. The long term effect of these increases are even less known.


----------



## Blameless

Gigabyte boards with the OC socket reveals some of these reserved voltages to user control in the form of the VL1-6 options that are available, and I've seen some of these values, left on auto settings, push a 60-70% overvolt.

As Praz says, no one seems to know exactly what they do. I've never been able to get a straight answer from anyone with the authority to speak for any motherboard company about their precise function. Best info on hand comes from tweakers like Der8auer--who isolated what he calls the 'uncore supply voltage' (while probably far from accurate nomenclature, this seems to be equivalent to the VL6 option on Gigabyte boards with the OC socket)--and others who have the inclination to risk breaking a lot of stuff via trial and error. Again, as Praz mentions, these aren't major voltage rails, most of them seem to be one or two pins carrying almost no current, so clearly telling the CPU to do something internally, and aren't powering components themselves.

Anyway, I do like having manual control over what I can, and I use VLs well below auto settings when I use the OC socket on my X99 SOC Champion to hedge my bets against early failure/degradation.

I would like to see some detailed investigation of all the reserved lands and what the OC sockets are doing with them, but no one seems inclined to do this for free and release the info publicly.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> As Raja wrote this cannot be monitored with AIDA. These voltage also have no effect on the values seen for the user set CPU, cache or memory voltages. The voltages related to the OC Socket should not be considered an applied voltage as one would with the CPU or cache voltage for example. The difference being the OC Socket voltages are manipulated to alter the behavior of the associated internal CPU circuits.
> 
> As to my preference of 3200 for 24/7 use consider the following for Broadwell-E. One of the OC Socket rails that is manipulated in conjunction with memory speed is being increased up to 35% higher by Intel over stock memory speed. An OC Socket board may add another 30% or so voltage on top of this if the set memory speed is high enough. A lot of of what is going on with these circuits is shrouded in mystery for all but a few at Intel. The long term effect of these increases are even less known.


Thanks for the great info, Praz!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> As Raja wrote this cannot be monitored with AIDA. These voltage also have no effect on the values seen for the user set CPU, cache or memory voltages. The voltages related to the OC Socket should not be considered an applied voltage as one would with the CPU or cache voltage for example. The difference being the OC Socket voltages are manipulated to alter the behavior of the associated internal CPU circuits.
> 
> As to my preference of 3200 for 24/7 use consider the following for Broadwell-E. One of the OC Socket rails that is manipulated in conjunction with memory speed is being increased up to 35% higher by Intel over stock memory speed. An OC Socket board may add another 30% or so voltage on top of this if the set memory speed is high enough. A lot of of what is going on with these circuits is shrouded in mystery for all but a few at Intel. The long term effect of these increases are even less known.


Thanks Praz... so, you know of at least one user that is testing the effect of long term higher mystery voltages on BWE *as i check my ITP*








IS there a really significant jump in going from 3200 to 3400 on BWE? lol - maybe this is why my package temp is always 40C or higher?


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Gigabyte boards with the OC socket reveals some of these reserved voltages to user control in the form of the VL1-6 options that are available, and I've seen some of these values, left on auto settings, push a 60-70% overvolt.
> 
> As Praz says, no one seems to know exactly what they do. I've never been able to get a straight answer from anyone with the authority to speak for any motherboard company about their precise function. Best info on hand comes from tweakers like Der8auer


Asus can we disable OC socket? For example I like VDrop during overclocking and keep LLC at minimum. Frying CPUs behind scenes was never pretty.

Blameless is there a web page with summary of all findings about OC sockets and what they do, or is all info hidden between 3000000 posts made by various people one various forums during 3 years?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thanks Praz... so, you know of at least one user that is testing the effect of long term higher mystery voltages on BWE *as i check my ITP*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IS there a really significant jump in going from 3200 to 3400 on BWE? lol - maybe this is why my package temp is always 40C or higher?


I've been running 3390 as my 24/7 for a couple of weeks now, so far no problems, knock on silicon ...









But, it may be slow degradation ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I've been running 3390 as my 24/7 for a couple of weeks now, so far no problems, knock on silicon ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, it may be slow degradation ...


none yet, and this rig has been at 3400c13 with 1.45V VDIMM, 3.8 cache with 1.33V since the day I first switched it on... but hey, what's the worst that could happen? Cooked CPU?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> none yet, and this rig has been at 3400c13 with 1.45V VDIMM, 3.8 cache with 1.33V since the day I first switched it on... but hey, what's the worst that could happen? Cooked CPU?


In the grand scheme of things it's totally down to the user. Cooked CPU would be more ideal, rather than imperceptive stability issues that might occur a few months, or in a year (or not) from now which is more of an annoyance than it is any kind of disaster.

I wasn't aware until recently, and simply took the mindset that 3200 is more than adequate enough given how it is possible to run the timings on these CPU, and keeping the OC socket volts at a slightly less disconcerting level. These are all valid reasons why 3200 is the go-to ratio, but not necessarily the fastest one possible.

That's not to say it's mutually exclusive, nobody knows the long term effects above or below the speeds in question. That's probably the best take away from this, you're not going to get a definitive answer, so best not to dwell on it and do what you must lol


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> In the grand scheme of things it's totally down to the user. Cooked CPU would be more ideal, rather than imperceptive stability issues that might occur a few months, or in a year (or not) from now which is more of an annoyance than it is any kind of disaster.
> 
> I wasn't aware until recently, and simply took the mindset that 3200 is more than adequate enough given how it is possible to run the timings on these CPU, and keeping the OC socket volts at a slightly less disconcerting level. These are all valid reasons why 3200 is the go-to ratio, but not necessarily the fastest one possible.
> 
> That's not to say it's mutually exclusive, *nobody knows the long term effects above or below the speeds in question*. That's probably the best take away from this, you're not going to get a definitive answer, so best not to dwell on it and do what you must lol


lol ... "This is how deep the river is, General."


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Asus can we disable OC socket? For example I like VDrop during overclocking and keep LLC at minimum. Frying CPUs behind scenes was never pretty.


Hello

As Intel is now altering these same circuits in conjunction with overclocking when using a Broadwell-E if behind the scenes adjustments are a concern don't overclock or do so moderately.


----------



## stargate125645

Since I went to all the trouble, I might as well make it official.

stargate125645---i7-5930K @ 4.6/4.4---4x8GB 3200Mhz-C13-15-13-33-1T---1.40v---SA 1.088v---Stressapptest---2 Hours


Additional information:
Strap of 100
Vcore = 1.23V
Vcache = 1.20V
VCCIN = 1.936V
VCCIO = 1.08125V

I couldn't get any timing combination to work without the second timing at at least 15.

I may mess with tREFI or tRFC next.


----------



## stargate125645

And for the other settings I mentioned previously...

stargate125645---i7-5930K @ 4.625/4.375---4x8GB 3333Mhz C14-16-14-34-1T---1.40v---SA 1.088v---Stressapptest---2 Hours


Additional information:
Strap of 125
Vcore = 1.26V
Vcache = 1.20V
VCCIN = 1.936V
VCCIO = 1.08125V


----------



## djgar

Here's my current 24x7, tamer than before but I guess still in the unknown degradation zone ... no need to register, Scone









4587 CPU Strap 100 BCLK 99.7 46x
3690 Cache 37x NB mult
1.385 VCORE adap turbo
1.28 VCACHE @ .320 - offset
1.20 VCCSA @ .210 offset
1.41 VDIMM
1.96 VINPUT / LLC +8
1.15 VCCIO CPU
.750 VTTDR
Phase Control CPU opt / DRAM - std
CPU current 140% / DRAM Current 130%


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Lays

A bit of fun on dual channel Z170 I had a while back, I really would like to find a 24/7 clock for these 2 sticks.

I need to find the spare time someday to test and figure out what I can run







, impressive results guys!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Here's my current 24x7, tamer than before but I guess still in the unknown degradation zone ... no need to register, Scone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4587 CPU Strap 100 BCLK 99.7 46x
> 3690 Cache 37x NB mult
> 1.385 VCORE adap turbo
> 1.28 VCACHE @ .320 - offset
> 1.20 VCCSA @ .210 offset
> 1.41 VDIMM
> 1.96 VINPUT / LLC +8
> 1.15 VCCIO CPU
> .750 VTTDR
> Phase Control CPU opt / DRAM - std
> CPU current 140% / DRAM Current 130%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Do you really need that much SA for those settings? Genuine question on my part, as I can run memory similarly at the same density and speed with as little as 1v, my 6900K was fine with 1.05v Albeit I know you are pushing other rails quite far too


----------



## vmanuelgm

Had to rma my RV10 and put back the RVE...



*[email protected]@3400CL14-15-14-32-1T--DramVoltage ab&cd 1.38v--SA 1.128v--Vccio 1.07v--HCI 500%*


----------



## BotSkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> A bit of fun on dual channel Z170 I had a while back, I really would like to find a 24/7 clock for these 2 sticks.
> 
> I need to find the spare time someday to test and figure out what I can run
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , impressive results guys!


What memory kit is that?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> A bit of fun on dual channel Z170 I had a while back, I really would like to find a 24/7 clock for these 2 sticks.
> 
> I need to find the spare time someday to test and figure out what I can run
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , impressive results guys!


lol - I'd really like to find 2 sticks like that.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Do you really need that much SA for those settings? Genuine question on my part, as I can run memory similarly at the same density and speed with as little as 1v, my 6900K was fine with 1.05v Albeit I know you are pushing other rails quite far too


1.2v SA gave me noticeably longer stability than lower sweet spots, hence. It's still yellow in the BIOS so I figured still relatively safe, though it is close to the magenta edge. I'll be doing more digging when the next BIOS comes out







.


----------



## Lays

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BotSkill*
> 
> What memory kit is that?


G.skill TridentZ 3600 16-16-16-36 kit
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - I'd really like to find 2 sticks like that.


Honestly the motherboard does most of the heavy lifting, before I got it I was using a Z170 OCF, and the sticks really didn't seem all that special. Once I got the MOCF, it became way easier lol

I got them to do 49/50 RTL the other day at 4000 c12, but I need to do more testing to see if I can get up to those higher frequencies at that RTL, usually it doesn't like it


----------



## Arctucas

G.skill TridentZ 3600 16-16-16-36 kit

I believe I may have that kit; F4-3600C16D-GTZ?

I am not really impressed with this eVGA motherboard, that AsRock may be what I am looking for.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> G.skill TridentZ 3600 16-16-16-36 kit
> Honestly the motherboard does most of the heavy lifting, before I got it I was using a Z170 OCF, and the sticks really didn't seem all that special. Once I got the MOCF, it became way easier lol
> 
> I got them to do 49/50 RTL the other day at 4000 c12, but I need to do more testing to see if I can get up to those higher frequencies at that RTL, usually it doesn't like it


oh I know. I've been running a few of the sticks I have on hand thru my MOCF... not yet able to find a pair that can do 12-12-12 above 3704 (102.9375 bclk/6320)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> G.skill TridentZ 3600 16-16-16-36 kit
> 
> I believe I may have that kit; F4-3600C16D-GTZ?
> 
> I am not really impressed with this eVGA motherboard, that AsRock may be what I am looking for.


I have the 3600c16s... I must be flubbing a setting. Tho not all kits are the same.


----------



## Lays

Sounds like IMC is the issue, I've owned 4 locked skylake cpus so far and all of them had horrific IMC, some needed 1.5 vccio to boot at the same settings my 6700k needed 1.2 at.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Sounds like IMC is the issue, I've owned 4 locked skylake cpus so far and all of them had horrific IMC, some needed 1.5 vccio to boot at the same settings my 6700k needed 1.2 at.


For sure... I think the cache on mine is really weak, so it affects the IO and ram stability.


----------



## superkyle1721

Makes me sad about what I achieved with the 3600 cl15 kit. Was hoping for 4000 plus but without crazy 24/7 voltages I'm sure I can only achieve it for temporary for benches. Curious what kind of voltage you are running to get it down to cl12 tho.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Makes me sad about what I achieved with the 3600 cl15 kit. Was hoping for 4000 plus but without crazy 24/7 voltages I'm sure I can only achieve it for temporary for benches. Curious what kind of voltage you are running to get it down to cl12 tho.


Hello

Maybe as high as 1.85V or 1.90V on the memory for SuperPi stability. Not something even close to considering if your goal is 24/7 settings.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Maybe as high as 1.85V or 1.90V on the memory for SuperPi stability. Not something even close to considering if your goal is 24/7 settings.


Haha oh I know it's not 24/7 but I was just curious. Even at 1.5V I can't get 1t to even boot at 3800+. If I used xmp settings manually entered it takes 1.48V just to use 3600 cl15 1t. In the end losing 1t and running 3800+ proved more benifitial


----------



## Lays

I think I need 1.9ish for 4000 12-11-11 1T with those timings like in the pic, but for 4100+ 12-11-11 1T it's closer to 2.1v. I'm sure if I got em real cold during winter and used 2.15-2.2, I could do 4200 12-11-11 maybe. Not sure though. I'd probably have to loosen rtl to 51/52 or 52/53


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Maybe as high as *1.85V or 1.90V* on the memory for SuperPi stability. Not something even close to considering if your goal is 24/7 settings.


^^ This !!! (and XTU)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> I think I need 1.9ish for 4000 12-11-11 1T with those timings like in the pic, but for 4100+ 12-11-11 1T it's closer to 2.1v. I'm sure if I got em real cold during winter and used 2.15-2.2, I could do 4200 12-11-11 maybe. Not sure though. I'd probably have to loosen rtl to 51/52 or 52/53


Really nice sticks for sure, although this thread is aimed at slightly more pragmatic settings







Would be interested to see what sticks like that can do on a daily basis when coupled with lower voltages. Currently the only entry above 4000 is my own, and that was on a pretty run of the mill 3866 kit that was rushed out the door by TG at launch.

Beyond those speeds really is down to the memory controller, board and what voltage is needed when looking at stability.


----------



## Lays

Yeah man I really want to spend time and figure out what is stable, but I work really odd times and sleep during the day so I tend not to have much time for testing things like stability


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Yeah man I really want to spend time and figure out what is stable, but I work really odd times and sleep during the day so I tend not to have much time for testing things like stability


What else is your machine doing when you're asleep during the day?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Scone, HCI 500% enough???


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What else is your machine doing when you're asleep during the day?


The chores..heh


----------



## Lays

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What else is your machine doing when you're asleep during the day?


BOINC & seeding lol


----------



## Desolutional

You should probably offload seeding to a rPi, an Atom based SoC or a seedbox, it isn't CPU intensive at all - and it won't ever be interrupted by restarting or shutdown.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Another HCI to add to the list, whenever you are ready to finally do it...









*[email protected]@3359 CL 14-14-14-32-1T--DDR Voltage 1.38v ab&cd--SA 1.128v--Vccio 1.07v--HCI 500%*


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thanks Praz... so, you know of at least one user that is testing the effect of long term higher mystery voltages on BWE *as i check my ITP*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IS there a really significant jump in going from 3200 to 3400 on BWE? lol - maybe this is why my package temp is always 40C or higher?


Hello

I found some time to do some testing in regards to increased temps. System was set to 4300MHz/CPU, 3600MHz/cache and 2666MHz/memory speeds. Current was monitored at both default OC Socket settings and the settings manually set to values that would be set by the board with 3400MHz memory speed while running RealBench. The OC Socket settings for 3400MHz memory speed resulted in 14A additional current draw. So even with all other things being held constant the OC Socket settings will have an impact on temperature.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> The OC Socket settings for 3400MHz memory speed resulted in 14A additional current draw. So even with all other things being held constant the OC Socket settings will have an impact on temperature.


But how much of that is from the OC socket settings themselves and how much of that is simply from the better performance/utilization allowed by the faster memory?


----------



## mus1mus

Can you guys point me if something else is still violating some laws on this one?

I'm about to leave this all night after several passes of GSAT. We'll see how this holds up.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Can you guys point me if something else is still violating some laws on this one?


Your tRAS is slightly low, rest of it looks like it's following all hard rules.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Your tRAS is slightly low, rest of it looks like it's following all hard rules.


I can change that then.







33 is it?


----------



## Blameless

33 (CAS + tRCD + tRTP) is a good place to start.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> 33 (CAS + tRCD - tRTP) is a good place to start.












13Hours GSAT initiated.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> But how much of that is from the OC socket settings themselves and how much of that is simply from the better performance/utilization allowed by the faster memory?


This is almost entirely the OC socket.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> 33 (CAS + tRCD - tRTP) is a good place to start.


CAS + tRCD *+* tRTP


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> But how much of that is from the OC socket settings themselves and how much of that is simply from the better performance/utilization allowed by the faster memory?


Hello

What Raja wrote. I tested at 2666MHz memory speed only.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> CAS + tRCD *+* tRTP


Yes, thanks.

Went back and corrected my typo.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> What Raja wrote. I tested at 2666MHz memory speed only.


Sounds like a good argument for more manual control over the OC Socket voltages/parameters.

Tempted to put all the VLs on auto on my Gigabyte board and see what sort of power differential there is.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Yes, thanks.
> 
> Went back and corrected my typo.
> Sounds like a good argument for more manual control over the OC Socket voltages/parameters.
> 
> Tempted to put all the VLs on auto on my Gigabyte board and see what sort of power differential there is.


Leaving them on auto will be more than needed i can almost guarantee. Ive seen some voltages as high as 1.51v on auto while i can get away with 1.42v manually set.
For me VL4-5 at 3200Mhz is 1.44v-1.48v auto and i can get 3600Mhz with 1.42-1.43 on VL4-5


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I found some time to do some testing in regards to increased temps. System was set to 4300MHz/CPU, 3600MHz/cache and 2666MHz/memory speeds. Current was monitored at both default OC Socket settings and the settings manually set to values that would be set by the board with 3400MHz memory speed while running RealBench. The OC Socket settings for 3400MHz memory speed resulted in 14A additional current draw. So even with all other things being held constant the OC Socket settings will have an impact on temperature.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> This is almost entirely the OC socket.


Good info Praz +1. I only did a very brief experiement looking at package temp with memory at 3400c13, 1.45V VDIMM, 1.02v SA, 1.05V VCCIO vs 2666c12 1.4V VDIMM, same Sa and VCCIO. core and cache at 4.3/3.7 1.281V / 1.25V for both. I only noticed a slight drop in package temp... more lilkely due to me turning up the AC sweating it out.








Nevertheless, 14A is pretty significant... was that isolated CPU current or does it include other components? Would you expect the additional current to "manifest" as package or core or "cpu" temperature?

Freakin caselabs Mercury SM8 arrived... after putzing with a few hundred screws late last night, I came to realize that the Aquacomputer Res/pump/fountain thing would not fit unless I cut a 3.5 inch hole in the mid section component. A little time in the garage/shop at the drill press with a bi-metal hole saw and viola. Shoulda bought casters...








I gotta snap some pics..


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Praz

Hello

The amp values are for total processor processor current draw. Package temperature is an average of the highest reporting sensor. That sensor may or may not be one that is visible to monitoring software.


----------



## djgar

Sure that's not a coffee pot in the bubble wrap?
















I love my M8A, no longer available. Got it just in time.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> The amp values are for total processor processor current draw. Package temperature is an average of the highest reporting sensor. That sensor may or may not be one that is visible to monitoring software.


So if trying to figure out the wattage would it be 14Ax12v=168Watt's? That seems like a lot but then again i don't think i converted it right.









NVM


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> So if trying to figure out the wattage would it be 14Ax12v=168Watt's? That seems like a lot but then again i don't think i converted it right.


Hello

My numbers are at the CPU with a VCORE of 1.28V. This will allow you to work out the current difference seen at the +12V EPS connector. The numbers will need to be adjusted accordingly to take into consideration the inefficiency of the VRM circuit.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> My numbers are at the CPU with a VCORE of 1.28V. This will allow you to work out the current difference seen at the +12V EPS connector. The numbers will need to be adjusted accordingly to take into consideration the inefficiency of the VRM circuit.


Yeah i was reading up on it a little more and realized where i was wrong.

So im just guessing you need to understand the VRM's components spec sheets and what they are rated for to figure out the inefficiency's of the VRM?

How do you go about finding the inefficiency of the VRM? If it's not to hard to explain.
Or am i kinda on the right track.


----------



## MR-e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Good info Praz +1. I only did a very brief experiement looking at package temp with memory at 3400c13, 1.45V VDIMM, 1.02v SA, 1.05V VCCIO vs 2666c12 1.4V VDIMM, same Sa and VCCIO. core and cache at 4.3/3.7 1.281V / 1.25V for both. I only noticed a slight drop in package temp... more lilkely due to me turning up the AC sweating it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, 14A is pretty significant... was that isolated CPU current or does it include other components? Would you expect the additional current to "manifest" as package or core or "cpu" temperature?
> 
> Freakin caselabs Mercury SM8 arrived... after putzing with a few hundred screws late last night, I came to realize that the Aquacomputer Res/pump/fountain thing would not fit unless I cut a 3.5 inch hole in the mid section component. A little time in the garage/shop at the drill press with a bi-metal hole saw and viola. Shoulda bought casters...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta snap some pics..
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice JP! I have the S8S version (S8*S*tumpy) of the S8 case and had to do the exact same cut to the mid plate! I too also notice high package temps. It may be due to the psu heating up the lower chamber as there's no where for the hot air to exhaust. I wish they stamped the back panel of the PSU chamber the same way they did above the PCIe slots.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> The amp values are for total processor processor current draw. Package temperature is an average of the highest reporting sensor. *That sensor* may or may not be one that is visible to monitoring software.


Yeah, we got what PKg temp is. If I understand you correctly: the higher current-induced temperature increase, if there is one, may not be specifically visible to monitoring software, but would be included in the sensors rolled into Package temp? Yep - I'm confused. .








werm, for clarity... the increase current experienced with higher ram clocks (like 3400) _may or may not show up as a higher package temp_ assuming we're only monitoring this with software.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Sure that's not a coffee pot in the bubble wrap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love my M8A, no longer available. Got it just in time.


lol - padding during assembly... I have to make a rubber grommet to go around the 3.5" cutout.








but it should look like an old perk coffee pot.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> Nice JP! I have the S8S version (S8*S*tumpy) of the S8 case and had to do the exact same cut to the mid plate! I too also notice high package temps. It may be due to the psu heating up the lower chamber as there's no where for the hot air to exhaust. I wish they stamped the back panel of the PSU chamber the same way they did above the PCIe slots.


hey - did you have to make the cutout for the res or did that model offer a mid panel with the cutout?


----------



## MR-e

^ I took a bi-metal hole saw to the mid-plate


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexpot*
> 
> ^ I took a bi-metal hole saw to the mid-plate


lol - me... I had to measure 20 times before cutting once.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> How do you go about finding the inefficiency of the VRM? If it's not to hard to explain.
> Or am i kinda on the right track.


Typically efficiency of VRM is 9/10.


----------



## kosamchetoo

I see my L1, L2 and L3 cache latencies are higher than what I saw by most people here, how can i lower them, do I need to overclock the North Bridge?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kosamchetoo*
> 
> I see my L1, L2 and L3 cache latencies are higher than what I saw by most people here, how can i lower them, do I need to overclock the North Bridge?


L1 and L2 are part of the CPU cores themselves and run at full core speed. The only way to improve their performance is to increase core clock.

The L3 runs at the uncore/NB clock.


----------



## kosamchetoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> L1 and L2 are part of the CPU cores themselves and run at full core speed. The only way to improve their performance is to increase core clock.
> 
> The L3 runs at the uncore/NB clock.


Thank you for your answer. Do you think 1.1ns for L1 and 3.3ns for L2 is ok?


----------



## stargate125645

@Silent Scone, I used an Asus Sabertooth motherboard for the overclocks if you want to fill it out (I think you called it TUF Sabertooth for others). You also didn't add the 3333MHz settings I posted right after the 3200MHz. Just FYI.


----------



## Lays

Quick question, would it be better to run 1T with higher timings at say... 4000 mhz, vs 2T with lower timings?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Quick question, would it be better to run 1T with higher timings at say... 4000 mhz, vs 2T with lower timings?


Hello

As this thread is for stable memory configurations you will probably get a quicker and better answer in a different thread. Although the best solution is test the various settings yourself.


----------



## Lays

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> As this thread is for stable memory configurations you will probably get a quicker and better answer in a different thread. Although the best solution is test the various settings yourself.


I was asking in regards to performance for 24/7 stability, sorry I should of been more clear on it.


----------



## Praz

Hello

Test both ways.


----------



## Lays

I'm so dumb, I forgot my Linux mint password lol, and I think I need it for the screenshot after 1 hour gsat lol


----------



## Lays

Am I doing this right?

Lays -- i7 6700k @ 5.0/4.1 -- 3733Mhz- c15-16-16-36-1T---1.5v--SA 1.27v --- VCCIO 1.22v -- Stressapptest--1 hour

I'd like to mess around more with cache OC and try and get higher frequency on the memory, I kept getting errors at 4133 and 4000 mhz, even with loose timings. I think I just need more VDIMM, but I don't feel like running some crazy high like 1.65v 24/7 on my nice kit lol.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> @Silent Scone, I used an Asus Sabertooth motherboard for the overclocks if you want to fill it out (I think you called it TUF Sabertooth for others). You also didn't add the 3333MHz settings I posted right after the 3200MHz. Just FYI.


Feel free to post data, but please don't rubberneck the results, it's not what the thread is for. The table serves as a guide and comparative for others to use. I had't missed your other result, am in the process of better organising some of the more obscure ones. Thanks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Am I doing this right?
> 
> Lays -- i7 6700k @ 5.0/4.1 -- 3733Mhz- c15-16-16-36-1T---1.5v--SA 1.27v --- VCCIO 1.22v -- Stressapptest--1 hour
> 
> I'd like to mess around more with cache OC and try and get higher frequency on the memory, I kept getting errors at 4133 and 4000 mhz, even with loose timings. I think I just need more VDIMM, but I don't feel like running some crazy high like 1.65v 24/7 on my nice kit lol.


Nice chip


----------



## Lays

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Feel free to post data, but please don't rubberneck the results, it's not what the thread is for. The table serves as a guide and comparative for others to use. I had't missed your other result, am in the process of better organising some of the more obscure ones. Thanks
> Nice chip


Thanks bud, I've prime95d it for a while to make sure it wouldn't crash, but after like 30 mins I called it good enough lol. I haven't crashed since and that was like 2 months ago, so I'll call it "stable" I suppose lol.

It was a silicon lottery chip that did 4.8 1.424, but after a delid and CLU it seems to have no problem with 5g.

I think if I have time I'll try higher frequency tonight, not sure if keeping twcl 9 is worth it if I need to run more volt or slower freq, will have to mess with stuff.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Thanks bud, I've prime95d it for a while to make sure it wouldn't crash, but after like 30 mins I called it good enough lol. I haven't crashed since and that was like 2 months ago, so I'll call it "stable" I suppose lol.
> 
> It was a silicon lottery chip that did 4.8 1.424, but after a delid and CLU it seems to have no problem with 5g.
> 
> I think if I have time I'll try higher frequency tonight, not sure if keeping twcl 9 is worth it if I need to run more volt or slower freq, will have to mess with stuff.


yeah, that's a nice one for sure.


----------



## stargate125645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Feel free to post data, but please don't rubberneck the results, it's not what the thread is for. The table serves as a guide and comparative for others to use. I had't missed your other result, am in the process of better organising some of the more obscure ones. Thanks


Yeah, my "rubbernecking" has nothing to do with wanting others to be able to see results that aren't on your table yet so they can see what is and isn't achievable, and everything to do with my name appearing. My bad.









Seriously, take my name off there for all I care. The result should be up there so I said something. If you still didn't put it up there, I wasn't going to say anything else. I am doing exactly what this thread is for.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i7 5820K @4.55/4.55---3600Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T----1.43v---SA 1.06v--- 1.94vccin --- Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Lays

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*


How do I get Aida and timing configurator installed on Linux like that?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> How do I get Aida and timing configurator installed on Linux like that?


It's not, Just a screenshot of the test in linux then switched to windows to show timings and voltage.


----------



## Lays

Dam you lilchronic, lol


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stargate125645*
> 
> Yeah, my "rubbernecking" has nothing to do with wanting others to be able to see results that aren't on your table yet so they can see what is and isn't achievable, and everything to do with my name appearing. My bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, take my name off there for all I care. The result should be up there so I said something. If you still didn't put it up there, I wasn't going to say anything else. I am doing exactly what this thread is for.


All results are there if you look hard enough, there is more than one table for varying ones now. When I get time I'm in the process of organising them to better help people looking for results that are more likely within reach.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Hi Scone.

Just seen you put my previous tests in the "odd" tab. Are we some kind of freaks??? xD

Guess my 500% HCI will go in the normal tab...


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Hi Scone.
> 
> Just seen you put my previous tests in the "odd" tab. Are we some kind of freaks??? xD
> 
> Guess my 500% HCI will go in the normal tab...


LMAO. what a joke

First of all i have manually tuned my VL's so there is no excessive voltage going on here. In fact they are even lower than what 3200Mhz would set them too on auto.

So if i ran 2800Mhz on 125 strap would that put me in the odd category? What is so odd about 3200Mhz+. Why arent all the Broadwell e cpu running 3400Mhz in the odd category?


----------



## Jpmboy

Odd = Special.







All my ram settings are odd.. some even numbers tho.

Anyway, this is odd: open aid64 and watch the Virtual Memory during a HCI run. What is this about? Or.. what Virtual Memory is AID64 looking at?
Take a look:
20 instances running:


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> All results are there if you look hard enough, there is more than one table for varying ones now. When I get time I'm in the process of organising them to better help people looking for results that are more likely within reach.


And he's not getting paid for this!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> LMAO. what a joke
> 
> First of all i have manually tuned my VL's so there is no excessive voltage going on here. In fact they are even lower than what 3200Mhz would set them too on auto.
> 
> So if i ran 2800Mhz on 125 strap would that put me in the odd category? What is so odd about 3200Mhz+. Why arent all the Broadwell e cpu running 3400Mhz in the odd category?


What odd category? It's organized by CPU type and memory capacity last I checked ... although you want odd, how's DDR4-3392 13-15-12-15-CR1 for odd?







OK, so I do have one even timing there, still ...


----------



## mus1mus

3333 at 125 strap is pretty easy IMO.









What I found rather odd is failing HCI Memtest within 100% after running 2 consecutive 1 hour GSAT.









It may just be my system. But the damn CPU fails to boot with b6 q-code after taking it off to check other CPUs. We'll see some subs after replacing that CPU.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> 3333 at 125 strap is pretty easy IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I found rather odd is failing HCI Memtest within 100% after running 2 consecutive 1 hour GSAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may just be my system. But the damn CPU fails to boot with b6 q-code after taking it off to check other CPUs. We'll see some subs after replacing that CPU.


If you pass GSAT yet fail HCI, then the culprit is usually the Uncore. GSAT is more memory-centric than HCI Memtest.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> LMAO. what a joke
> 
> First of all i have manually tuned my VL's so there is no excessive voltage going on here. In fact they are even lower than what 3200Mhz would set them too on auto.
> 
> So if i ran 2800Mhz on 125 strap would that put me in the odd category? What is so odd about 3200Mhz+. Why arent all the Broadwell e cpu running 3400Mhz in the odd category?


I can point out a joke to you but I wouldn't want you to get too upset about it. Instead I'll ask you a simple question, do you or do you not run 3200 24/7 like your post the other week implied, in fact more stated outright?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> No i run 3200Mhz Cl14 with tight secondaries @ 1.38v. CL 13 needs close to 1.5v and DIMM temps in the 50c range at that voltage. It seems my kit is much better at higher frequency apposed to lower and tighter timings. 3600Mhz i have no problems with just haven't put in the time to tweak and lower timings enough for better performance than my 3200Mhz oc.


Other folks like JP and Djgar both run the more obscure settings also at times, but these guys accept it for what it is and don't refute it for recognition. I'd suggest you change your stance on these things or else you'll just end up going around in circles. This is all of course unless you want to get into an argument that 3600 is a realistic goal for people to look for when overclocking memory with a Haswell-E CPU.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> And he's not getting paid for this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What odd category? It's organized by CPU type and memory capacity last I checked ... although you want odd, how's DDR4-3392 13-15-12-15-CR1 for odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so I do have one even timing there, still ...


Take a look at the chart. There is a odd section. Not sure what so odd about 3200Mhz +
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I can point out a joke to you but I wouldn't want you to get too upset about it. Instead I'll ask you a simple question, do you or do you not run 3200 24/7 like your post the other week implied?


Ive been running 3600Mhz ever since i posted results. And It does not matter if i do or don't run it 24/7. results are results.

Im fine with jokes, heck i joke around all the time. And i don't think you can upset me any more than i already am.


----------



## Jpmboy

Hey - can someone check AID64 virtual memory usage during an HCI run.. please.


----------



## Silent Scone

Only it's not a joke. These things are to serve as a guide for others. The recommended results that will eventually be added, along with the other more obscure settings to the other table don't reflect what is necessarily faster - more so easily obtainable. If this some how offends you then I don't know what else to tell you.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Only it's not a joke. *These things are to server as a guide for others*. The recommended results that will eventually be added, along with the other more obscure settings to the other table don't reflect what is necessarily faster - more so easily obtainable. If this some how offends you then I don't know what else to tell you.


Exactly.

So they belong where all the other results are.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Take a look at the chart. There is a odd section. Not sure what so odd about 3200Mhz +
> 
> Ive been running 3600Mhz ever since i posted results. And It does not matter if i do or don't run it 24/7. results are results.
> 
> Im fine with jokes, heck i joke around all the time. And i don't think you can upset me any more than i already am.


Tall trees close to home=bad idea specially in windy days!!!

Buy some wheels and get your house far away!!! Hope you fix it asap!!!









Scone, overclocking is not mathematics. If someone comes here with 500 or more HCI coverage, the result should be added to the normal tabs you had previously. Some of Djgar's could be considered "odd" too, but you put them in the normal tabs.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Tall trees close to home=bad idea specially in windy days!!!
> 
> Buy some wheels and get your house far away!!! Hope you fix it asap!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scone, overclocking is not mathematics. If someone comes here with 500 or more HCI coverage, the result should be added to the normal tabs you had previously. Some of Djgar's could be considered "odd" too, but you put them in the normal tabs.


That's because I've not added older results to the tables yet.

Coverage is not the prime reason results will be added to certain tables. The settings themselves are, as they are a guide to others - mainly those new to the platform.

Sadly I can't make you understand these things, so I'd suggest either sucking it up or simply not contributing. The purpose of the thread is obviously eluding you. If it's a 'dicks out' competition you are looking for, go to the memory addicts thread.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Take a look at the chart. There is a odd section. Not sure what so odd about 3200Mhz +
> 
> Ive been running 3600Mhz ever since i posted results. And It does not matter if i do or don't run it 24/7. results are results.
> 
> Im fine with jokes, heck i joke around all the time. And i don't think you can upset me any more than i already am.


is that from the Labor Day Weekend hurricane?? Daaum.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's because I've not added older results to the tables yet.
> 
> Coverage is not the prime reason results will be added to certain tables. The settings themselves are, as they are a guide to others - mainly those new to the platform.
> 
> Sadly I can't make you understand these things, so I'd suggest either sucking it up or simply not contributing. The purpose of the thread is obviously eluding you. If it's a 'dicks out' competition you are looking for, go to the memory addicts thread.


Best reply for you is copying what you wrote in your first post:

Stability Results

Please submit results with the following format.

GSAT Results
For sake of simplicity submitted results will only record primary timing sets, but feel free to show subsequent secondary and terts within screenshot.
Linux Mint's Stressapp test needs to be run for a minimum of 1 hour by typing stressapptest -W -s 3600 in the Terminal.
To take a screenshot in Terminal type: gnome-screenshot

HCI
HCI consider 1000% to be the 'golden standard' however for larger densities this can be time consuming. A minimal coverage of two laps (200%) is required to be added to the table for HCI for density over 16GB. 16GB or less requires a minimum of 4 laps (400%)

NOTE: This is not a leaderboard, as it is not a benchmark. This threads main purpose is to both discuss information and various results and to gauge what is possible between different configurations, DIMM capabilities and CPU samples. Results are welcome all the way up the frequency spectrum. If it's obtainable, it should be posted!

After reading this, which is the logic of "dicks out" competition???

You cant make me understand cos I really dont understand you, very difficult for me (and sure for others), mate!!!

Still want my 500 HCI in your list, my Dear Scone!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Sorry, maybe it's a language barrier, but you're wasting my time. If you don't understand the distinction then it's likely you don't really understand the platform.

If you don't like it, don't post. I will update your entry with the higher coverage. I've renamed the table if that helps also, beyond that - I can't really say what I'd like to.


----------



## Lays

Just a heads up scone, my board is a z170m OC formula not the normal one, you put the normal one in my submission on the list


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Tall trees close to home=bad idea specially in windy days!!!
> 
> Buy some wheels and get your house far away!!! Hope you fix it asap!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scone, overclocking is not mathematics. If someone comes here with 500 or more HCI coverage, the result should be added to the normal tabs you had previously. Some of Djgar's could be considered "odd" too, but you put them in the normal tabs.


Yeah we got about 10 trees that we want down.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> is that from the Labor Day Weekend hurricane?? Daaum.


Yeah Hurricane Hermine. Good thing is no one got hurt.









our new skylight.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sorry, maybe it's a language barrier, but you're wasting my time. If you don't understand the distinction then it's likely you don't really understand the platform.
> 
> If you don't like it, don't post. I will update your entry with the higher coverage. I've renamed the table if that helps also, beyond that - I can't really say what I'd like to.


You have to rewrite the requisites having in mind foreigners!!! xD

Guess the "if it is obtainable, it should be posted" must be erased. You can talk about language barriers whenever you want, but sounds like a excuse if we read what you stated. Google translator is enough for sentences like that. Instead of creating new apartheid tabs and trying to explain paradoxes, wasting time, youd better add valid results to your list just as you wrote you would.

I maybe dont understand the platform, but still running 24/7 both strap 100 and 125 settings which obtained 500 HCI without any issues!!!


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Take a look at the chart. There is a odd section. Not sure what so odd about 3200Mhz +
> 
> Ive been running 3600Mhz ever since i posted results. And It does not matter if i do or don't run it 24/7. results are results.
> 
> Im fine with jokes, heck i joke around all the time. And i don't think you can upset me any more than i already am.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Ahh! I see it's at the end - never went that far before, but it's been renamed "Obscure/uncommon"







.

Well, my next entry is definitely going in there!









And I meant to say "OUCH!" - hurricanes are no fun.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sorry, maybe it's a language barrier, but you're wasting my time. If you don't understand the distinction then it's likely you don't really understand the platform.
> 
> *If you don't like it, don't post*. I will update your entry with the higher coverage. I've renamed the table if that helps also, beyond that - I can't really say what I'd like to.


^^This.








Lol - folks can always start their own thread and maintain it with their time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah we got about 10 trees that we want down.
> Yeah Hurricane Hermine. Good thing is no one got hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> our new skylight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Daum bro that's fd-up - sorry to see that. Blue roof for a while I suppose.


----------



## mus1mus

@lilchronic

sorry for the misfortune.

but really good to hear that no one was hurt.

On the bright side, that'd be a good excuse to remodel the roof!


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Ahh! I see it's at the end - never went that far before, but it's been renamed "Obscure/uncommon"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Well, my next entry is definitely going in there!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I meant to say "OUCH!" - hurricanes are no fun.


I've been through so many hurricanes here in Florida but this is the first time we had major damage and it was only a cat 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^This.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol - folks can always start their own thread and maintain it with their time.
> Daum bro that's fd-up - sorry to see that. Blue roof for a while I suppose.


Yep blue tarp on the roof.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> @lilchronic
> 
> sorry for the misfortune.
> 
> but really good to hear that no one was hurt.
> 
> On the bright side, that'd be a good excuse to remodel the roof!


Thanks guy's.

We just got our roof re-done 3 years ago. I was up there spraying some roof cleaner before the hurricane hit so that the rain would wash it off, So much for that.

Yeah the insurance claim guy totaled our wood flooring. So all new floors , walls and roof


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I've been through so many hurricanes here in Florida but this is the first time we had major damage and it was only a cat 1
> Yep blue tarp on the roof.
> Thanks guy's.
> 
> We just got our roof re-done 3 years ago. I was up there spraying some roof cleaner before the hurricane hit so that the rain would wash it off, So much for that.
> 
> Yeah the insurance claim guy totaled our wood flooring. So all new floors , walls and roof


Ahh! The silver lining - spanking new house (more or less)







.

I got a new roof thanks to Sandy a couple of years ago, but it was because shingles from some sections had been blown away, thankfully no inside damage.

Good luck with the repairs!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Just a heads up scone, my board is a z170m OC formula not the normal one, you put the normal one in my submission on the list


Thanks, will change. Don't get many Asrock entries!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I've been through so many hurricanes here in Florida but this is the first time we had major damage and it was only a cat 1
> *Yep blue tarp on the roof.*
> Thanks guy's.
> 
> We just got our roof re-done 3 years ago. I was up there spraying some roof cleaner before the hurricane hit so that the rain would wash it off, So much for that.
> 
> Yeah the insurance claim guy totaled our wood flooring. So all new floors , walls and roof


When flying into FFL or Miami I see blue roofs all year. It's normal for Florida.


----------



## djgar

My initial 0903 BIOS excursions were around my previous 24/7 settings. Yesterday I decided to see how far I could push with (relatively) reasonable ROI while remaining with vdimm < 1.45v. Hence, although in Praz's described hidden undercurrent territory, I found 0903 amenably more overclockable (is that even a word?) than 0801 allowing some more for less, or ranges previously somewhat not reachable. Also, I find memory training time is substantially reduced.









I ran 80 minutes GSAT (no spiking) and 110 minutes RealBench with 1.405 vcore before the old Watchdog bit, I currently bumped turbo vcore to 1.41 which should increase that time but haven't re-run RealBench yet. Also haven't explored VCCSA in these settings. Here's hoping those undercurrents have been reduced some as an improvement. As they say, don't try this at home. Oh dang! I AM home







.

4,613 MHz @ Strap 100, BCLK 100.3 46x, 1.410 VCORE adaptive turbo
3,810 MHz cache @ 38x, .350 VCACHE offset = 1.31v
.210 VCCSA offset = 1.20v
32MB DDR4-3410 13-15-12-17CR1 @ 1.44 VDIMM
1.97 VCCIN / LLC +8 = 1.984v @ turbo max
1.15 VCCIO CPU
Phase Control CPU - opt / DRAM - std
CPU current 130% / DRAM Current 130%

 
 

So, for the Obscure/Uncommon chart (or maybe a new Don't-Try-This-At-Home one) whenever it's convenient and if applicable, Scone:
djgar--6900K @4.613/3.81---3410Mhz-C13-15-12-17-1T----1.44v---SA 1.20v---Stressapptest----80 min.
Asus Strix X99 Motherboard


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks, will change. Don't get many Asrock entries!


scone - plz try hci memtest with AID64 OSD showing virtual memory use. What V mem is AIDA looking at?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> My initial 0903 BIOS excursions were around my previous 24/7 settings. Yesterday I decided to see how far I could push with (relatively) reasonable ROI while remaining with vdimm < 1.45v. Hence, although in Praz's described hidden undercurrent territory, I found 0903 amenably more overclockable (is that even a word?) than 0801 allowing some more for less, or ranges previously somewhat not reachable. Also, I find memory training time is substantially reduced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ran 80 minutes GSAT (no spiking) and 110 minutes RealBench with 1.405 vcore before the old Watchdog bit, I currently bumped turbo vcore to 1.41 which should increase that time but haven't re-run RealBench yet. Also haven't explored VCCSA in these settings. Here's hoping those undercurrents have been reduced some as an improvement. As they say, don't try this at home. Oh dang! I AM home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 4,130 MHz @ Strap 100, BCLK 100.3 46x, 1.410 VCORE adaptive turbo
> 3,810 MHz cache @ 38x, .350 VCACHE offset = 1.31v
> .210 VCCSA offset = 1.20v
> 32MB DDR4-3410 13-15-12-17CR1 @ 1.44 VDIMM
> 1.97 VCCIN / LLC +8 = 1.984v @ turbo max
> 1.15 VCCIO CPU
> Phase Control CPU - opt / DRAM - std
> CPU current 130% / DRAM Current 130%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, for the Obscure/Uncommon chart (or maybe a new Don't-Try-This-At-Home one) whenever it's convenient and if applicable, Scone:
> djgar--6900K @4.613/3.81---3410Mhz-C13-15-12-17-1T----1.44v---SA 1.20v---Stressapptest----80 min.
> Asus Strix X99 Motherboard


Now that def belongs in the odd tab.









(well done - looks "interesting".)


----------



## tistou77

I think there are secondary timings can I change
If you can help me











Thanks


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> scone - plz try hci memtest with AID64 OSD showing virtual memory use. What V mem is AIDA looking at?
> Now that def belongs in the odd tab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (well done - looks "interesting".)


Thanks - I've had "interesting" dates







. So, are you going to give the new RVE10 1002 beta BIOS a shot? Probably has the same improvements as my beta, plus - came out same day


----------



## lilchronic

@Silent Scone Might as well add all these to the uncommon / obscure tab, in fact every thing that is not set with XMP should be in the uncommon tab. LOL










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Moorhen 5960x SOC 4.3/4.3 3426
16-16-16-36-1T
1.35 1.05v 1.86 HCI 1200%
Moorhen 5960x SOC 4.5/4.1 3340
14-16-16-36-1T
1.42 1.05v 1.86 HCI 1000%
Lilchronic 5820k GBSOC 4.7/4.5 3200
13-13-13-30-1T
1.45 1.06 1.98
GSAT 2 Hour
Username CPU Mainboard
Core/Uncore
Mem Frq
Timings
Voltage
SA IO Test
Silent Scone 6600K Impact VIII 4.5/4.0 4133 20-21-21-62-1T 1.66 1.36 1.24 HCI 1000%
Silent Scone 6600k Impact VIII 4.5/4.2 4000 18-20-20-40-1T 1.45 1.29 1.23 HCI 1000%
Superkyle 1721 6700K Maximus VIII 4.84/4.84 3845 14-15-15-30-2T 1.5 1.22 1.2 GSAT 1 Hour
Lays 6700K
Asrock z170m OC Formula
5.0/4.1 3733 15-16-16-36-1T 1.5 1.27 1.22 SAT 1 hour
Jpmboy 6600K Maximus VIII 4.6/4.6 3600 18-20-20-48-1T 1.49 1.25 1.212 SAT 1 hour
Jpmboy 6700k
Maximus VIII
4.6/4.6 3466
15-17-17-42-1T
1.47 1.27 - HCI 470%
QuantumX
6700k MSI XPower 4.7/4.5 3340
15-15-15-35-1T
1.47 1.15 1.38
SAT 1 Hou
Silent Scone
6900K Deluxe II 4.3/3.6 3400
14-15-15-34-1T
1.42 1 1.93 SAT 1 Hour
Praz 6950X R5E10 4.2/3.5 3400
14-14-14-36-1T
1.35 0.976 1.82 SAT 2 Hour
Jpmboy 6950x R5E
4.4(AVX 4.1)/3.7
3400
14-16-16-34-2T
1.45 1.16 - SAT 1 Hour
Jpmboy 6950X R5E 4.3/3.7 3400
14-14-14-32-2T
1.45 1.07 - SAT 1 Hour
Jpmboy 6950x R5E 4.2/3.6 3400
13-14-14-30-2T
1.45 1.065 - HCI 300%



But i guess only what you think belongs there should be there.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Thanks - I've had "interesting" dates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . So, are you going to give the new RVE10 1002 beta BIOS a shot? Probably has the same improvements as my beta, plus - came out same day


will do.. but I have a bunch of stuff going on right now and I just need to catch up first. Finishing off a case for the R5E/5960X/SLI TitanX's just laying around and need to do a carb job on my chopper.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> scone - plz try hci memtest with AID64 OSD showing virtual memory use. What V mem is AIDA looking at?
> Now that def belongs in the odd tab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (well done - looks "interesting".)


Starting to think I should have made an 'odd users' tab instead lol.

Just over 31,200mb. Why, what are you thinking?


----------



## mus1mus

I'll be glad to be there.


----------



## Lays

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks, will change. Don't get many Asrock entries!


Is there no other MOCF's on the list? Weird considering it's arguably one of the best if not the best for mem OC







Then again, everybody that spends a zillion dollars on their build usually ends up with an ROG board. Their marketing is just to OP lol.

In my experience at least, MOCF and 4000+ 12-11-11 1T has been sooooooo easy, the board seems like it'll train just about anything I try lol. I haven't had any experience on other boards though except the big OCF with 4 slots.

EDIT: just to be clear I think the ROG boards are great, totally understand why people buy em, not just marketing hype


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Starting to think I should have made an 'odd users' tab instead lol.
> 
> Just over 31,200mb. Why, what are you thinking?


Yeah, it's basically the committed ram + the windows reserve. But what is this Virtual memory anyway? physical + ??? Page? I switched off my page file months ago.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lays*
> 
> Is there no other MOCF's on the list? Weird considering it's arguably one of the best if not the best for mem OC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, everybody that spends a zillion dollars on their build usually ends up with an ROG board. Their marketing is just to OP lol.
> 
> In my experience at least, MOCF and 4000+ 12-11-11 1T has been sooooooo easy, the board seems like it'll train just about anything I try lol. I haven't had any experience on other boards though except the big OCF with 4 slots.
> 
> EDIT: just to be clear I think the ROG boards are great, totally understand why people buy em, not just marketing hype


I have the Impact and MOCF... aside from the BCLK-ability of the MOCF (eg, 102.9375, whereas the Impact top out at 102.75 on non-K chips) , the Impact easily does as well with RAM. It's a bios thing, the Gigbyte board just passed the MOCF in the non-K BCLK race.
IMO - for an ITX build, either of these boards is super... maybe the impact has better audio.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> But what is this Virtual memory anyway? physical + ??? Page? I switched off my page file months ago.


Windows memory management maps all available memory to virtual memory addresses so it's effectively the total memory address space available. It doesn't have anything to do with page file unless you have a page file, but a page file would be included in that total.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Windows memory management maps all available memory to virtual memory addresses so it's effectively the total memory address space available. It doesn't have anything to do with page file unless you have a page file, but a page file would be included in that total.


This^


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Starting to think I should have made an 'odd users' tab instead lol.
> ...


I definitely qualify there ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Windows memory management maps all available memory to virtual memory addresses so it's effectively the total memory address space available. It doesn't have anything to do with page file unless you have a page file, but a page file would be included in that total.


Thanks bro. got it now.


----------



## Tim Drake

I'm on an R5E with 8 sticks of 4gb and I'm trying to get 3200 stable so I don't have to use 125bclk anymore but to actually get it stable, I need up to 1.15v or slightly more to get it stable and I was wondering what the max safe daily votes for system agent would be?

Edit: it seems whenever I overclock my cpu, the ram is no longer stable even with that SA voltage.. God I hate ram ocing..

Also, I forgot to mention that my cpu is a 5960X


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tim Drake*
> 
> I'm on an R5E with 8 sticks of 4gb and I'm trying to get 3200 stable so I don't have to use 125bclk anymore but to actually get it stable, I need up to 1.15v or slightly more to get it stable and I was wondering what the max safe daily votes for system agent would be?
> 
> Edit: it seems whenever I overclock my cpu, the ram is no longer stable even with that SA voltage.. God I hate ram ocing..
> 
> Also, I forgot to mention that my cpu is a 5960X


and what is the ram kit rated at?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I think there are secondary timings can I change
> If you can help me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Someone to help me

Thanks


----------



## Tim Drake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> and what is the ram kit rated at?


3000 15-16-16-39 2T 1.35v

Seems it's no longer stable, even stock cpu but it is far more stable with stock cpu than if overclocked. Any reason as to why I could run 4 32m earlier but I can't pass 1 now?


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Well... working on stable memory... Haven't had much luck over 2800 with my manual timings.. 200% coverage passed in Memtest. Just a preliminary benchmark here.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Both tWTR and tRTP are limited by the burst length. A setting less than 4 will be valid only if the board is applying the value as an offset instead of an absolute.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I just did a bunch of tests with tWTR and tRTP, together and in isolation. I was figuring that since I had generally been adjusting tRAS (and thus tRC) along with tRTP that this might be the source of the difference I had seen earlier and not tRTP or tWTR themselves.
> 
> However, this does not appear to be the case; I am consistently getting slightly better performance in WinRAR with tRTP of 3 vs. 4, all other things being equal, as far as I am able to divine. Additionally, setting tRTP below 3 results in a failure to POST, while 3 vs. 4 needs about 20mV more vDIMM for stability. So, it's clearly doing something. Perhaps it's an offset like you say, but I can't find anything that reads memory timings that's indicating this.
> 
> tWTR is much less clear. 2 vs. 4 does seem to result in a performance increase, but it's a smaller impact than tRTP (about 5 KiB/s on a test that scores near ~22300), getting close to margin of error, even after averaging many tests in very clean environments with multiple reboots (cold and warm) to account for any possible training variance. I think I'm going to leave it on 2 because the test results are leaning that way and I've already done significant stability testing with that setting.


Regarding write to read delay again, I've noticed that the SPD values in nearly all of my DDR3 and DDR4 have tWTR below 4. The Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400 I'm using in my primary system defaults to three.

If values below 4 aren't supposed to be viable, why would the SPD values be lower?

Actually, I think I just answered my own question while writing/testing this; it's an offset on all the platforms I'm testing.

The true turn around times aren't adjustable on any of the platforms I have on hand, nor are they listed in the BIOS. However, values shown under ADIA64 closely match the formula I've found in the datasheets of various memory controllers, namely CAS write latency + burst length/2 (almost always 8 on any DDR2+ platform) + tWTR +a possible memory controller specific variable.

So, the tWTR setting we see on most boards should be considered an offset with no hard minimum value. The reason for the comparitively tiny, though repeatable, performance variance I've seen when adjusting this value is likely due to the relative rarity of turnarounds vs. other operations and the fact that the tWTR offset is a small component of the turnaround timing.

tWTR of 4 as listed in my BIOS/UEFI settings, MemTweakit, and ASRock Timing Configurator:










tWTR of 2:










Nearly every board for nearly every system I have on hand, which cover every modern desktop socket, list tWTR this way, as do most utilities that reveal memory timings.

Clearly, the tWTR setting, as presented in most setups, is working as an offset.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Starting to think I should have made an 'odd users' tab instead lol.
> 
> Just over 31,200mb. Why, what are you thinking?


We all know who is the freak number one, and the most "stable" and coherent!!!










Still waiting to see my 500 HCI in your list... When are you registering them???


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding write to read delay again, I've noticed that the SPD values in nearly all of my DDR3 and DDR4 have tWTR below 4. The Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400 I'm using in my primary system defaults to three.
> 
> If values below 4 aren't supposed to be viable, why would the SPD values be lower?
> 
> Actually, I think I just answered my own question while writing/testing this; it's an offset on all the platforms I'm testing.
> 
> The true turn around times aren't adjustable on any of the platforms I have on hand, nor are they listed in the BIOS. However, values shown under ADIA64 closely match the formula I've found in the datasheets of various memory controllers, namely CAS write latency + burst length/2 (almost always 8 on any DDR2+ platform) + tWTR +a possible memory controller specific variable.
> 
> So, the tWTR setting we see on most boards should be considered an offset with no hard minimum value. The reason for the comparitively tiny, though repeatable, performance variance I've seen when adjusting this value is likely due to the relative rarity of turnarounds vs. other operations and the fact that the tWTR offset is a small component of the turnaround timing.
> 
> tWTR of 4 as listed in my BIOS/UEFI settings, MemTweakit, and ASRock Timing Configurator:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tWTR of 2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly every board for nearly every system I have on hand, which cover every modern desktop socket, list tWTR this way, as do most utilities that reveal memory timings.
> 
> Clearly, the tWTR setting, as presented in most setups, is working as an offset.


Amazing information!! It would be incredibly helpful if you could post a list of boards you are referring to and it can be added to the OP first page to generate a list.


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> We all know who is the freak number one, and the most "stable" and coherent!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting to see my 500 HCI in your list... When are you registering them???


You are a very impatient person. Scone is doing a great job keeping this forum updated. All users have a life outside of the forums and it's not always convenient for them to ensure every post is added. When he has time I assure you he will update it.

Also I know I am late to the party but I just caught up with my reading as I have been busy. This thread is dedicated to stability and to show other users what is possible. With that said I believe he made the right call given your settings. Most users do not push ram overclocks as hard as the more advanced members. Most will try and find their xmp profile or one speed above it and try those settings and move on. With that said even my settings should be included in the odd tab as most users don't feel comfortable pushing 1.5V dram. In reality those setting were for my own benifit and I don't think many if any will benifit from seeing them. But they are realistic and stable so I posted them. This thread as well as most threads here are dedicated to helping others more than proving you can punch in numbers in bios and make memory post and pass. And if I am brutily honest 99% of users interested in results will most likely post to the thread before even skimming the first page for results (like most all threads) so let's keep things civil and not worry about who goes where and why. Scone knows what he is doing and this is HIS thread. Others are welcome to start their own if they think they can do it better.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> You are a very impatient person. Scone is doing a great job keeping this forum updated. All users have a life outside of the forums and it's not always convenient for them to ensure every post is added. When he has time I assure you he will update it.
> 
> Also I know I am late to the party but I just caught up with my reading as I have been busy. This thread is dedicated to stability and to show other users what is possible. With that said I believe he made the right call given your settings. Most users do not push ram overclocks as hard as the more advanced members. Most will try and find their xmp profile or one speed above it and try those settings and move on. With that said even my settings should be included in the odd tab as most users don't feel comfortable pushing 1.5V dram. In reality those setting were for my own benifit and I don't think many if any will benifit from seeing them. But they are realistic and stable so I posted them. This thread as well as most threads here are dedicated to helping others more than proving you can punch in numbers in bios and make memory post and pass. And if I am brutily honest 99% of users interested in results will most likely post to the thread before even skimming the first page for results (like most all threads) so let's keep things civil and not worry about who goes where and why. Scone knows what he is doing and this is HIS thread. Others are welcome to start their own if they think they can do it better.


We've met before to state I am an impatient person???









Wrote that cos of Scone post saying there should be a tab for odd users, then added my wish, nothing else.

Before posting nonsenses, you should read my first posts to understand why I am writing this way (joking of course, I dont take it seriously).

By the way, mate, can you explain the difference between Djgar bw-e 32gb results which go in normal tab, and mine ones???


----------



## superkyle1721

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> We've met before to state I am an impatient person???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrote that cos of Scone post saying there should be a tab for odd users, then added my wish, nothing else.
> 
> Before posting nonsenses, you should read my first posts to understand why I am writing this way (joking of course, I dont take it seriously).
> 
> By the way, mate, can you explain the difference between Djgar bw-e 32gb results which go in normal tab, and mine ones???


I apologize as maybe I wasn't clear enough. I DONT CARE.
It's not your thread and arguing about something so petty is just a waste of your time and a waste to everyone that reads these post. Arguing with someone who clearly knows a lot more about the chipset than you is a loosing battle. I will leave you with a piece of advise. Don't piss off the ones that can help you as you never know when you might need their help.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Guy, if you dont care, dont interfere and dont state things that are not true, like Scone knows more about x99 than me... I am completely sure he doesn't...

In Scone words, starting to seem like a "dick out" competition, full of boyfriends!!!










PS: still waiting for a rational explanation about differences between my HCI's and Djgar's...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Guy, if you dont care, dont interfere and dont state things that are not true, like Scone knows more about x99 than me... I am completely sure he doesn't...
> 
> In Scone words, starting to seem like a "dick out" competition, full of boyfriends!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: still waiting for a rational explanation about differences between my HCI's and Djgar's...


If the fact I haven't completed moving older results into these new sorting isn't rational enough for you, then unfortunately I can't help you.

Your problem is you are too hot headed, so any reply you get from me isn't like to help. You can do either one of two things, you can either stop bringing these things up even though I've explained it is incomplete, or simply don't come back. I don't think anyone will be too bothered either way.

Equally, I can't make you understand why your results are going in there, because it's clear you are fixated on the thread being a competition.

Nobody wants to hear your moaning, not least of all me.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superkyle1721*
> 
> Amazing information!! It would be incredibly helpful if you could post a list of boards you are referring to and it can be added to the OP first page to generate a list.


A cursory check implies that the adjustable tRTW setting in the firmware of the following boards are all offsets:

Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion
Gigabyte X79-UP5-Wifi (I no longer have a working sample of this board, but I do have saved screen shots that show it behaving the same as all of my other gigabyte boards).
Gigabyte Z68X-UP4
Gigabyte X58A-UD5 2.0
Gigabyte X58-UD3R 1.0

ASRock X99 OC Formula
ASRock X79 Extreme6
ASRock X58 Extreme

ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0
ASUS P5Q Deluxe

The ASUS boards don't have options for tRTW below 4, but adjustment of this value changes the turnaround values read by AIDA64 in a manner very similar to what is shown in the screen shots of my primary system in my prior post (other than the timings that are DDR4 specific, of course). Pretty sure I have detailed screenshots of the timings with the P9X79 WS I used to have, but I'll have to dig those out.


----------



## [email protected]

In bot
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Regarding write to read delay again, I've noticed that the SPD values in nearly all of my DDR3 and DDR4 have tWTR below 4. The Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400 I'm using in my primary system defaults to three.
> 
> If values below 4 aren't supposed to be viable, why would the SPD values be lower?
> 
> Actually, I think I just answered my own question while writing/testing this; it's an offset on all the platforms I'm testing.
> 
> The true turn around times aren't adjustable on any of the platforms I have on hand, nor are they listed in the BIOS. However, values shown under ADIA64 closely match the formula I've found in the datasheets of various memory controllers, namely CAS write latency + burst length/2 (almost always 8 on any DDR2+ platform) + tWTR +a possible memory controller specific variable.
> 
> So, the tWTR setting we see on most boards should be considered an offset with no hard minimum value. The reason for the comparitively tiny, though repeatable, performance variance I've seen when adjusting this value is likely due to the relative rarity of turnarounds vs. other operations and the fact that the tWTR offset is a small component of the turnaround timing.
> 
> tWTR of 4 as listed in my BIOS/UEFI settings, MemTweakit, and ASRock Timing Configurator:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tWTR of 2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly every board for nearly every system I have on hand, which cover every modern desktop socket, list tWTR this way, as do most utilities that reveal memory timings.
> 
> Clearly, the tWTR setting, as presented in most setups, is working as an offset.


In both screenshots, what you are setting in UEFI is being applied to different bank group tWTR - which is what the setting is primarily for.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If the fact I haven't completed moving older results into these new sorting isn't rational enough for you, then unfortunately I can't help you.
> 
> Your problem is you are too hot headed, so any reply you get from me isn't like to help. You can do either one of two things, you can either stop bringing these things up even though I've explained it is incomplete, or simply don't come back. I don't think anyone will be too bothered either way.
> 
> Equally, I can't make you understand why your results are going in there, because it's clear you are fixated on the thread being a competition.
> 
> Nobody wants to hear your moaning, not least of all me.


Scone, too busy for some things, and free to reply almost immediately... xD

Do whatever, mate, I just enter this thread to have a good time seeing how much coherency and "stability" there is!!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tim Drake*
> 
> 3000 15-16-16-39 2T 1.35v
> 
> Seems it's no longer stable, even stock cpu but it is far more stable with stock cpu than if overclocked. Any reason as to why I could run 4 32m earlier but I can't pass 1 now?


could be the IMC failing, but more likely the timings and voltages are in need of tuning. We're gonna need more info to help "in an informed manner". Fill out RigBuilder and add it to your sig block. Post bios screenshots of the relevant bios pages so we can see the voltages and settings.


----------



## Tim Drake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> could be the IMC failing, but more likely the timings and voltages are in need of tuning. We're gonna need more info to help "in an informed manner". Fill out RigBuilder and add it to your sig block. Post bios screenshots of the relevant bios pages so we can see the voltages and settings.


Tbh 1. I'm on data 2. I don't think ram overclocking is worth that much of my time. Just wanted a rough guideline of what is safe for system agent voltage and vccio voltages


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tim Drake*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> could be the IMC failing, but more likely the timings and voltages are in need of tuning. We're gonna need more info to help "in an informed manner". Fill out RigBuilder and add it to your sig block. Post bios screenshots of the relevant bios pages so we can see the voltages and settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tbh 1. I'm on data 2. I don't think ram overclocking is worth that much of my time. Just wanted a rough guideline of what is safe for system agent voltage and vccio voltages
Click to expand...

I've heard so much lately on VCCIO and System Agent... Can't figure it out... but I need 1.205v on the System Agent for 2800 stable... I think like 1.175v VCCIO... I have yet to determine which of the two I can begin to lower though....


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> I've heard so much lately on VCCIO and System Agent... Can't figure it out... but I need 1.205v on the System Agent for 2800 stable... I think like 1.175v VCCIO... I have yet to determine which of the two I can begin to lower though....


I would stay where you are. If your IMC is good, though, you should be able to lower the System Agent a fraction or two at those speeds. Personally I wouldn't bother.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tim Drake*
> 
> Tbh 1. I'm on data 2. I don't think ram overclocking is worth that much of my time. Just wanted a rough guideline of what is safe for system agent voltage and vccio voltages


then best to leave everything on defaults. lol - this is overclock.net, I don't know of a "safevoltage.net".








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> I've heard so much lately on VCCIO and System Agent... Can't figure it out... but I need 1.205v on the System Agent for 2800 stable... I think like 1.175v VCCIO... I have yet to determine which of the two I can begin to lower though....


Like Scone said, on z170 there's no real reason to lower either from those values from where you have them.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> then best to leave everything on defaults. lol - this is overclock.net, I don't know of a "safevoltage.net".


Surprised someone hasn't started such a site, heh.


----------



## Lays

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Surprised someone hasn't started such a site, heh.


It's called linustechtips


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> then best to leave everything on defaults. lol - this is overclock.net, I don't know of a "safevoltage.net".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Scone said, on z170 there's no real reason to lower either from those values from where you have them.


That's not smartest advice when defaults burn stuff.


----------



## Tim Drake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> then best to leave everything on defaults. lol - this is overclock.net, I don't know of a "safevoltage.net".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Scone said, on z170 there's no real reason to lower either from those values from where you have them.


Yeah but I don't like using BCLK and regardless of your joke, asking for maximum safe voltages to Overclock on is STILL overclocking. This is "overclock.net" not "hwbot.com"


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> In bot
> In both screenshots, what you are setting in UEFI is being applied to different bank group tWTR - which is what the setting is primarily for.


It's still applying the tWTR setting in the UEFI config an offset to the same rank tWTR value and does so on platforms (every DDR3 board I have and at least some of the DDR2 ones) that don't have bank groups at all.

Even if the bank group timings below four aren't taking, the same rank value is because I can consistently benchmark a difference between different values of four and below.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Someone to help me
> 
> Thanks


Check out my timings for reference, though we do have different kits:

official-skylake-haswell-e-broadwell-e-24-7-ddr4-memory-stability-thread/2760

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> ...
> 
> PS: still waiting for a rational explanation about differences between my HCI's and Djgar's...


We do have different CPUs (your 6950X vs. my 6900K) but your vccin is higher, just enough to be at the edge from yellow to magenta. Not huge but at the "normal" edge. My recent settings will be right next to yours







.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> It's still applying the tWTR setting in the UEFI config an offset to the same rank tWTR value and does so on platforms (every DDR3 board I have and at least some of the DDR2 ones) that don't have bank groups at all.
> 
> Even if the bank group timings below four aren't taking, the same rank value is because I can consistently benchmark a difference between different values of four and below.


The issue with this format is not knowing what happens when one breaches the min threshold for different banks, which should be the most common transaction. That's what interleaving is for.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> The issue with this format is not knowing what happens when one breaches the min threshold for different banks, which should be the most common transaction. That's what interleaving is for.


That's why I test settings, thoroughly, before I use them for anything important. If it's not stable and/or not faster, I go back to known good values.

The fact that all auto/SPD values are setting tWTR (as revealed to me in the firmware config) below 4 (3 at the SPD values of this Crucial DDR4 2400 kit that has SPD values for 2400), that I can get a small, though repeatable performance advantage in both WinRAR and GSAT, as well as being able to run arbitrarily long stress tests with such low values (I did a 24 hour GSAT run with tWTR set to 2, in addition to my normal test routine), has me pretty well convinced at this point that the sub-four values I am able to set are kosher.

Either accessing a different bank group isn't truly limited by burst length, the IMC is overriding the 2 and using a 4 for that value, or the bank group timings shown are offsets themselves. Regardless, the setting works and does seem to make a difference.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> *Either accessing a different bank group isn't truly limited by burst length, the IMC is overriding the 2 and using a 4 for that value*, or the bank group timings shown are offsets themselves. Regardless, the setting works and does seem to make a difference.


It has to be, the spacing exists to prevent sending a signal over the bus while the DQ lines are still toggling.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> That's not smartest advice when defaults burn stuff.


lol - speaking of not the smartest advice...
you kid, right? never saw a system fry itself when left to defaults on all settings... well, not without pilot error.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tim Drake*
> 
> Yeah but I don't like using BCLK and regardless of your joke, asking for maximum safe voltages to Overclock on is STILL overclocking. This is "overclock.net" not "hwbot.com"


who said anything about bclk? Read the reply to cakewalk, then recognize that "safe" voltage in the context of overclocking is a personal "ceiling". What I consider safe for a 24/7 overclock, you may not.
Also, if someone here said... 1.5V is fine. Then what? you believe that? All the information you seek in in the intel spec sheet which you can DL directly from Intel.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> That's why I test settings, thoroughly, before I use them for anything important. If it's not stable and/or not faster, I go back to known good values.
> 
> The fact that all auto/SPD values are setting tWTR (as revealed to me in the firmware config) below 4 (3 at the SPD values of this Crucial DDR4 2400 kit that has SPD values for 2400), that I can get a small, though repeatable performance advantage in both WinRAR and GSAT, as well as being able to run arbitrarily long stress tests with such low values (I did a 24 hour GSAT run with tWTR set to 2, in addition to my normal test routine), has me pretty well convinced at this point that the sub-four values I am able to set are kosher.
> 
> Either accessing a different bank group isn't truly limited by burst length, the IMC is overriding the 2 and using a 4 for that value, or the bank group timings shown are offsets themselves. Regardless, the setting works and does seem to make a difference.


I should add, I'm also struggling to see a valid reason for two separate timings for write to read delays to different banks on the same rank; the one you're referring to simply appears to be the total turnaround timing which is a derivative of the value you are setting plus the associated latching delays. In effect, that doesn't show anything significant. Crude analogy would be the relationship between min tRAS and one of the primary timings.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - speaking of not the smartest advice...
> you kid, right? never saw a system fry itself when left to defaults on all settings... well, not without pilot error.


It happens, but as you hint, it is pretty rare. Basically something was marginal from the factory, but showed no symptom of failure.

Any time you have a feedback system that adjusts output based on input, you have created a potential for over-current (when the input sense fails and output is drive to/toward the rail).

Solder joins fail, things delaminate, etc...

More often than not, there is some user error involved (these days likely heat if nothing else), but I had an X99 MB go from working at defaults for a few months to "zzzzzzt" (literally sizzled in front of me). The CPU survived and hums along to this day. In fact, I overclocked it after that, because hey, if its gonna fail, it needs to fail within the PPP window right?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> It has to be, the spacing exists to prevent sending a signal over the bus while the DQ lines are still toggling.


There we go then. Sub-four tRTW values must primarily be functioning as an offset in cases where they make a difference.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> never saw a system fry itself when left to defaults on all settings... well, not without pilot error.


Frying itself on stock would imply defect somewhere (such as the first stepping of the 6-series PCH, where the SATA controller would eventually fry itself), absent user error, or old age.

Does depend on what "defaults" you are talking about though. I had a set of early DDR3 with an ancient XMP profile on it that fed one of my Westmeres 1.65 QPI/VTT ...would have been fine for a well cooled X48 MCH, very iffy for a P45 MCH or a Bloomfield IMC, but it was fatal for my first 32nm Westmere (stock on that particular sample was 1.125v if I recall correctly). Default for the memory was no where near default for the CPU in that instance.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> There we go then. Sub-four tRTW values must primarily be functioning as an offset in cases where they make a difference.


No, I dont think they are. You are dealing with burst chops from what I can tell. A collision can still occur and it comes down to how the chipset handles it.

Think of it this way, if you set tRTP to 1, just because you also reduce tRAS by the same number of clocks, it doesn't mean the timing is an offset.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I should add, I'm also struggling to see a valid reason for two separate timings for write to read delays to different banks on the same rank; the one you're referring to simply appears to be the total turnaround timing which is a derivative of the value you are setting plus the associated latching delays. In effect, that doesn't show anything significant. Crude analogy would be the relationship between min tRAS and one of the primary timings.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> No, I dont think they are. You are dealing with burst chops from what I can tell. A collision can still occur and it comes down to how the chipset handles it.
> 
> Think of it this way, if you set tRTP to 1, just because you also reduce tRAS by the same number of clocks, it doesn't mean the timing is an offset.


It may be worth noting that the same rank tWTR value does precisely equal write CAS + burst length (in actual cycles) + the tWTR value I can set, which correspond precisely to formula I've seen elsewhere for how the write-to-read turnaround is calculated.

Example (an Altera DDR3 PHY, in this case): https://www.altera.com/support/support-resources/knowledge-base/solutions/rd05132013_938.html

The timing itself is also labeled as a "delay" on many boards, which may imply an offset. Could have been abbreviated over time or lost in translation from Mandarin to changlish.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> It may be worth noting that the same rank tWTR value does precisely equal write CAS + burst length (in actual cycles) + the tWTR value I can set, which correspond precisely to formula I've seen elsewhere for how the turnarounds are calculated.


Yes, but that doesn't imply an offset is in effect for tWTR. Like on reads, min tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and BL, where tRTP defines the BL + the desired or required additive delay.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Yes, but that doesn't imply an offset is in effect for tWTR. Like on reads, min tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and BL, where tRTP defines the BL + the desired or required additive delay.


Yeah, I get what you're saying now. Thanks for the clarification.

In the end all I know for certain is when I turn the setting down, some other values seem to go down with it, and things get a tiny bit faster without seeming to break anything.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Yeah, I get what you're saying. Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> In the end all I know for certain is when I turn the setting down, some other values seem to go down with it, and things get a tiny bit faster without seeming to break anything.


Well if the timing you're seeing shifting due to dropping tWTR is akin to a "tRAS" identifier for turnarounds, this comes down to BL limitations, hence the efficaciousness of "burst length" values for tWTR.


----------



## Tim Drake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - speaking of not the smartest advice...
> you kid, right? never saw a system fry itself when left to defaults on all settings... well, not without pilot error.
> who said anything about bclk? Read the reply to cakewalk, then recognize that "safe" voltage in the context of overclocking is a personal "ceiling". What I consider safe for a 24/7 overclock, you may not.
> Also, if someone here said... 1.5V is fine. Then what? you believe that? All the information you seek in in the intel spec sheet which you can DL directly from Intel.


Jesus, I just asked for a basic guideline voltage not the King of pedanticism.

Also, I am the one who said about bclk to myself because that's the only reason I can even see to run a memory overclock. I'd much rather run 100 bclk than 125 bclk.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> There we go then. Sub-four tRTW values must primarily be functioning as an offset in cases where they make a difference.
> Frying itself on stock would imply defect somewhere (such as the first stepping of the 6-series PCH, where the SATA controller would eventually fry itself), absent user error, or old age.
> 
> Does depend on what "defaults" you are talking about though. I had a set of early DDR3 with an ancient XMP profile on it that fed one of my Westmeres 1.65 QPI/VTT ...would have been fine for a well cooled X48 MCH, very iffy for a P45 MCH or a Bloomfield IMC, but it was fatal for my first 32nm Westmere (stock on that particular sample was 1.125v if I recall correctly). Default for the memory was no where near default for the CPU in that instance.


could be construed to be pilot error.








yep - no problem admitting, I've cooked a few parts myself over the years.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tim Drake*
> 
> Jesus, I just asked for a basic guideline voltage not the King of pedanticism.
> 
> Also, I am the one who said about bclk to myself because that's the only reason I can even see to run a memory overclock. I'd much rather run 100 bclk than 125 bclk.


not being pedantic at all. you asked about two voltage rails that I had just posted about in response to another member. cool down bro. There is NO official safe voltage that is above the AOR (acceptable operating range) published by intel. And you appear to already know that OCing comes with a risk (else why ask for a safe voltage). On z170 1.25 vsa and 1.225V VCCIO have been running for months.. nearly a year - on an M8E here, an M8 Impact, and for a few weeks on another z170. X99 is a different beast and the values are much lower.








You have an answer to your question.
Enjoy.

lol - if you want help, fill out rigbuilder so folks here know what gear you are working with. Someone else will help ya. King out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Yes, but that doesn't imply an offset is in effect for tWTR. Like on reads, min tRAS is the sum of tRCD, CAS and BL, where tRTP defines the BL + the desired or required additive delay.


damn dude - you know waaaaay too much about memory.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tim Drake*
> 
> Jesus, I just asked for a basic guideline voltage not the King of pedanticism.
> 
> Also, I am the one who said about bclk to myself because that's the only reason I can even see to run a memory overclock. I'd much rather run 100 bclk than 125 bclk.


Basic guidelines can be found in the overclocking overviews. You can ask questions, but others can't do all the work for you.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Wondering if I can get 15CAS on my memory... XMP is 3600 18-20-20-39 and I'm currently at 2800 16-16-16-36...hmmm 1.35V memory also.. I know I'm stable at these settings for sure.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Wondering if I can get 15CAS on my memory... XMP is 3600 18-20-20-39 and I'm currently at 2800 16-16-16-36...hmmm 1.35V memory also.. I know I'm stable at these settings for sure.


Put the theory into practice, then







. Lower CAS to 15 run GSAT for an hour or two, raising the DRAM voltage if necessary.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Wondering if I can get 15CAS on my memory... XMP is 3600 18-20-20-39 and I'm currently at 2800 16-16-16-36...hmmm 1.35V memory also.. I know I'm stable at these settings for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Put the theory into practice, then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Lower CAS to 15 run GSAT for an hour or two, raising the DRAM voltage if necessary.
Click to expand...

I'll run Memtest instead. I'll try 15-15-15-36 2T at 1.350v and see if that's a go.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> I'll run Memtest instead. I'll try 15-15-15-36 2T at 1.350v and see if that's a go.


HCI Memtest?


----------



## Cakewalk_S

So I'm going to go for 3000MHz DDR4 now... I'm stable at 16-16-16-36 2T 375TrFC.

Does Dram Current Capability have anything to do with overclocking the ram? wondering what bios tweaks besides VCCIO and VCCSA, Dram voltage, and timings I can tweak...

I'm hoping for CAS16 or CAS17 3000MHz... will report back!


----------



## kosamchetoo

I have a question, my ram is 3200MHz so it should be 1600 = 16 x 100, but in HWiNFO it shows 1600 = 24 x 66.7 although my Bus is 100 not 66.7. Does this has something to do with X99 and Quad Channel?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> So I'm going to go for 3000MHz DDR4 now... I'm stable at 16-16-16-36 2T 375TrFC.
> 
> Does Dram Current Capability have anything to do with overclocking the ram? wondering what bios tweaks besides VCCIO and VCCSA, Dram voltage, and timings I can tweak...
> 
> I'm hoping for CAS16 or CAS17 3000MHz... will report back!


No need to adjust current capability unless the system is shutting down when placed under a memory stress test. A lot of this stuff can be left on Auto.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> So I'm going to go for 3000MHz DDR4 now... I'm stable at 16-16-16-36 2T 375TrFC.
> 
> Does Dram Current Capability have anything to do with overclocking the ram? wondering what bios tweaks besides VCCIO and VCCSA, Dram voltage, and timings I can tweak...
> 
> I'm hoping for CAS16 or CAS17 3000MHz... will report back!


as Raja said re: dram current.

as far as Cas17... or even 16; I wouldn;t go there. better running tighter timings at a lower frequency - you'll get better performance.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Barbara Lidya*
> 
> Question on memory I am running somewhere in the range of 2x8gb G.Skill Rip Jaws 4 (3000mhz) 15-15-15-35 @ 1.35v Model F4-3000C15D-16GRK. So memory functions as publicized with order rate at 2 however won't post on the off chance that I set it to 1. Is it justified, despite all the trouble to change timings to attempt and motivate it to post at 1T? On the off chance that so any proposals what timings I ought to attempt? On the other hand would it be a good idea for me to attempt and increment voltage? In the event that so how high is it to increment on skylake?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not so much an ASRock bolster fellow - however you will probably need to set higher DRAM voltage and potentially VCCSA and IO.


Hello

If overclocking memory is so much bother leave the settings as they are. Memory clocking can be involved as it is without this type of mindset.


----------



## Jpmboy

Hey Scone, got the R5E/5960X back up, "new ram" GSkill RJs 3200c14 4x8GB

jpmboy -- [email protected]/4.2 --- 3200C13, 32GB --- SA 1.000 --- VDIMM 1.425 --- HCI 790%



I think there's still some tightening to do...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Hey Scone, got the R5E/5960X back up, "new ram" GSkill RJs 3200c14 4x8GB
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected]/4.2 --- 3200C13, 32GB --- SA 1.000 --- VDIMM 1.425 --- HCI 790%
> 
> 
> 
> I think there's still some tightening to do...


Nice, what made you put that back together? How's the CS build coming?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice, what made you put that back together? How's the CS build coming?


that's what's in the CS Mercury case.









I need to take some pics with a real camera...


----------



## Kimir

You haven't toyed with secondary timings on this yet, right?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You haven't toyed with secondary timings on this yet, right?


no... just the basics like tRTP. getting a few other things done atm.


----------



## litster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Hey Scone, got the R5E/5960X back up, "new ram" GSkill RJs 3200c14 4x8GB
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected]/4.2 --- 3200C13, 32GB --- SA 1.000 --- VDIMM 1.425 --- HCI 790%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think there's still some tightening to do...


jpmboy, what is the name of the tool that displays all that information on the right side of your screen shot?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *litster*
> 
> jpmboy, what is the name of the tool that displays all that information on the right side of your screen shot?


Looks like the AIDA OSD panel ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *litster*
> 
> jpmboy, what is the name of the tool that displays all that information on the right side of your screen shot?


the list of data is AID64, the charts and boxes above that is aquasuite from an aquaero 6 pro.
did a little more "polishing" this morning.
Anyway, I a;ways have this running on my day-driver/work rig (R4BE/4960X cooled by a Aquacomputer 720XT Mark IV). if you have the AQ stuff, the OSD is very slick (power calcs, bar charts, graphs etc, all can be displayed)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Desktop on the R4BE:

check the total uptime on the 720MKIV... 1482 days!!


----------



## litster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Looks like the AIDA OSD panel ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the list of data is AID64, the charts and boxes above that is aquasuite from an aquaero 6 pro.
> did a little more "polishing" this morning.
> Anyway, I a;ways have this running on my day-driver/work rig (R4BE/4960X cooled by a Aquacomputer 720XT Mark IV). if you have the AQ stuff, the OSD is very slick (power calcs, bar charts, graphs etc, all can be displayed)
> 
> Desktop on the R4BE:
> check the total uptime on the 720MKIV... 1482 days!!


Thanks guys. Will checkout the aqua suite and Aida's OSD.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *litster*
> 
> Thanks guys. Will checkout the aqua suite and Aida's OSD.


aquasuite works best with an Aquaero controller, but it can read AID64 sensors via WMI.


----------



## lilchronic

@Silent Scone
Im kinda concerned about the methodology you used to organize this spread sheet.








You have a recommended bracket with speeds of 3200Mhz cl13-13-13 which is pretty hard to achieve even with samsung B-die. at least my kit and a few other's ive seem here in this tread.

I mean is there really a need for a Recommended and Obscure/Uncommon bracket ?
What, are you trying to profile us? I really don't under stand why you want to make it harder for people to see these results.

Heck even making it harder for yourself which i could care less but anyway.... Just curious as to why?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> @Silent Scone
> You have a recommended bracket with speeds of 3200Mhz cl13-13-13 which is pretty hard to achieve even with samsung B-die. at least my kit and a few other's ive seem here in this tread.


Hello

Plug n' play here. Set the 4 primaries and memory voltage and job done.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Plug n' play here. Set the 4 primaries and memory voltage and job done.


Hello

I'm glad it work's for you.









I can plug n' play 3600Mhz 16-16-16-36 set voltage and strap..... job done.
^ Recomended LMAO


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I'm glad it work's for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can plug n' play 3600Mhz 16-16-16-36 and voltage..... job done.
> ^ Recomended LMAO


Hello

So your board sets the 167 strap on its own? Run 3600 on the 100 strap and I'm sure that would be entered as a recommended or normal configuration.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> @Silent Scone
> Im kinda concerned about the methodology you used to organize this spread sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a recommended bracket with speeds of 3200Mhz cl13-13-13 which is pretty hard to achieve even with samsung B-die. at least my kit and a few other's ive seem here in this tread.
> 
> I mean is there really a need for a Recommended and Obscure/Uncommon bracket ?
> What, are you trying to profile us? I really don't under stand why you want to make it harder for people to see these results.
> 
> Heck even making it harder for yourself which i could care less but anyway.... Just curious as to why?


if you are refering to the 3200c13-13-13 sub I made... yeah, I should have never sold that kit. the cheaper ripjaws that are on that board and cpu ATM can;t do 13-13-13.








(well at least on bios 3202.. I gotta flash back to 1701 to really know)


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> So your board sets the 167 strap on its own? Run 3600 on the 100 strap and I'm sure that would be entered as a recommended configuration.


Hello

I set that along with my timings and voltage. 167 strap is what it takes to achieve 3600Mhz on haswell-E so yeah i would say 167 strap is recommended









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if you are refering to the 3200c13-13-13 sub I made... yeah, I should have never sold that kit. the cheaper ripjaws that are on that board and cpu ATM can;t do 13-13-13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (well at least on bios 3202.. I gotta flash back to 1701 to really know)


Not just your submission.


----------



## mus1mus

Nothing special... But considering it's a kit of Micron Chips, you shouldn't expect more.









2666 13-13-13-32-1T
1.35VDIMM BIOS - 1.37 Windows
+100 VCCSA
4200 Core at 1.1V
4000 Cache at 1.1V
VCCIN - 1.9


----------



## Jpmboy

Ain't nothing wrong with 2666c13. It's a very snappy setting IMO.


----------



## mus1mus

And it's still going for C12.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Finicky kit that's all. It won't boot past 1.35VDIMM.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Nothing special... But considering it's a kit of Micron Chips, you shouldn't expect more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2666 13-13-13-32-1T
> 1.35VDIMM BIOS - 1.37 Windows
> +100 VCCSA
> 4200 Core at 1.1V
> 4000 Cache at 1.1V
> VCCIN - 1.9


How about 3200Mhz cl14 Micron chips ran 2200% hci but had 2 errors right after 1000%


----------



## mus1mus

How about using that in your X99?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> How about using that in your X99?


I have used them in my x99 rig. when HWE launched i had them doing 3000Mhz cl15. 2 of the 4 stick's have problems going any higher.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> So your board sets the 167 strap on its own? Run 3600 on the 100 strap and I'm sure that would be entered as a recommended or normal configuration.


Heh, I wouldn't waste your breath. There's an internal brick wall somewhere that was put up before god took over.


----------



## lilchronic

Don't forget XMP for 3000Mhz kit sets 125 strap and 3600Mhz kit with xmp set;s it to 167 strap. LOL what you got to say about that?


----------



## mus1mus

2666 12-12-12-28-1T

250% for now. Time ran out.


----------



## Jpmboy

Why you guys care about odd or recommended is beyond understanding. Just post up your ram results and if the "categorization" might be a concern, c'mon... to use an army phrase: "walk like you got a d*** ". (lol - I wonder if they still use that these days. )
Truth is, here at OCN more folks will open the "Odd" tab than will peruse the "Recommended" tab.









OT: folding on 2 TitanXMs for a few hours... if I roll the CPU in at 12 threads package temp is 70C.







I'll just stick with the GPUs


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Why you guys care about odd or recommended is beyond understanding. Just post up your ram results and if the "categorization" might be a concern, c'mon... to use an army phrase: "walk like you got a d*** ". (lol - I wonder if they still use that these days. )
> Truth is, here at OCN more folks will open the "Odd" tab than will peruse the "Recommended" tab.


I did add a note to explain why the results may be shown there above the table. It's difficult to even comprehend why anyone would find it concerning or an issue. Too little going on in their actual real lives perhaps. Personally now I don't have the capacity or time to keep having to explain myself just to sooth some sore bums.


----------



## Kimir

There could be more in recommended then, my 3200 c14 64GB for example, is pretty much XMP if you don't look on the secondary timings, which the chart does not show, nor there is a link or post number to redirect it to.


----------



## Jpmboy

lol - I'm working on getting included in the Odd tab... no really.


----------



## djgar

And I thought I was a slam dunk


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> There could be more in recommended then, my 3200 c14 64GB for example, is pretty much XMP if you don't look on the secondary timings, which the chart does not show, nor there is a link or post number to redirect it to.


That's because it's not finished yet, it's a work in progress. Which I've exclaimed a number of times already...I don't intend on trailing through the thread for old result screenshots currently.

These things aren't even aimed at most of the regular contributors.

[EDIT] Feel free to requote the post and I will add it with the screenshot.

I will add that result with a note stating the following:
Quote:


> Some CPU may struggle with this much memory at this speed


Why? Because this statement is true, and it helps others see this when looking at the result.

That is it's purpose.


----------



## wholeeo

Anyone else having issues with Mint not loading X? I had to run SAT via the terminal. I was able to get my sticks 3200 sticks to run at 3466 but with 18-19-19-38-2 timings (SAT stable). I'm assuming I'm better off dropping them back down to 3200 or even 3000 with tighter timings?


----------



## Kimir

That's an issue with nvidia driver if I recall.


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> That's an issue with nvidia driver if I recall.


Yeah, even Ubuntu won't load into X but the strange thing is it tries to load on my integrated IGPU instead of the GPU and still no go. I wish I could disable my card via bios to test further.









edit: Well, I was able to get it to run in X. First I had to set my bios so that IGPU is primary. Then I had to add parameter nouveau.modeset=0 to the end of the linux line under Grub.

Source: http://askubuntu.com/questions/703653/ubuntu-14-04-live-usb-wont-boot-seems-incompatible-with-nouveau


----------



## Kimir

You don't have physical switches for pcie slots like extreme board does?







This sure come on handy in a case like this.
I never had my hand on Z170, but on B150 you can set the primary graphic adapter to be the integrated one.


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You don't have physical switches for pcie slots like extreme board does?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This sure come on handy in a case like this.
> I never had my hand on Z170, but on B150 you can set the primary graphic adapter to be the integrated one.


Updated my post.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> That's an issue with nvidia driver if I recall.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, even Ubuntu won't load into X but the strange thing is it tries to load on my integrated IGPU instead of the GPU and still no go. I wish I could disable my card via bios to test further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: Well, I was able to get it to run in X. First I had to set my bios so that IGPU is primary. Then I had to add parameter nouveau.modeset=0 to the end of the linux line under Grub.
> 
> Source: http://askubuntu.com/questions/703653/ubuntu-14-04-live-usb-wont-boot-seems-incompatible-with-nouveau
Click to expand...

Download this Puppy Linux ISO.

http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/tahr64-6.0.5.iso

Make USB With Rufus 'MBR for CSM/UEFI' option. https://rufus.akeo.ie/

Enable CSM and Fastboot in BIOS, and change in BIOS Secure Boot to 'Other O/S', boot from USB NOT using the UEFI option in BIOS, , search stressapptest in Puppy Package Manager, install it, profit!! Also in Puppy Package Manager install Gnome Terminal as the one comes with Puppy you cannot copy and paste commands into it easily. In the Puppy Package Manager be sure to update the repos in the wrench icon as well to find all the apps I mention. I installed a screenshot app as well.









Don't even need to install to hard disk, it runs from the USB. When you reboot choose the Save file option to the USB Puppy is on or if you boot into it again you'll need to reinstall stressapptest and gnome terminal again.

It also works with Titan X's and other NVidia cards that people with Linux Mint have trouble installing the O/S.


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Download this Puppy Linux ISO.
> 
> http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/tahr64-6.0.5.iso
> 
> Make USB With Rufus 'MBR for CSM/UEFI' option. https://rufus.akeo.ie/
> 
> Enable CSM and Fastboot in BIOS, and change in BIOS Secure Boot to 'Other O/S', boot from USB NOT using the UEFI option in BIOS, , search stressapptest in Puppy Package Manager, install it, profit!! Also in Puppy Package Manager install Gnome Terminal as the one comes with Puppy you cannot copy and paste commands into it easily. In the Puppy Package Manager be sure to update the repos in the wrench icon as well to find all the apps I mention. I installed a screenshot app as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't even need to install to hard disk, it runs from the USB. When you reboot choose the Save file option to the USB Puppy is on or if you boot into it again you'll need to reinstall stressapptest and gnome terminal again.
> 
> It also works with Titan X's and other NVidia cards that people with Linux Mint have trouble installing the O/S.


Thanks but I couldn't get my network to run. I tried loading the e1000e module which supposedly is the one which should work with my Intel 219V controller.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Download this Puppy Linux ISO.
> 
> http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/tahr64-6.0.5.iso
> 
> Make USB With Rufus 'MBR for CSM/UEFI' option. https://rufus.akeo.ie/
> 
> Enable CSM and Fastboot in BIOS, and change in BIOS Secure Boot to 'Other O/S', boot from USB NOT using the UEFI option in BIOS, , search stressapptest in Puppy Package Manager, install it, profit!! Also in Puppy Package Manager install Gnome Terminal as the one comes with Puppy you cannot copy and paste commands into it easily. In the Puppy Package Manager be sure to update the repos in the wrench icon as well to find all the apps I mention. I installed a screenshot app as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't even need to install to hard disk, it runs from the USB. When you reboot choose the Save file option to the USB Puppy is on or if you boot into it again you'll need to reinstall stressapptest and gnome terminal again.
> 
> It also works with Titan X's and other NVidia cards that people with Linux Mint have trouble installing the O/S.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but I couldn't get my network to run. I tried loading the e1000e module which supposedly is the one which should work with my Intel 219V controller.
Click to expand...

Sorry, this worked by default with a Rampage V Extreme, X99-A II and Sabertooth X99.


----------



## MattBaneLM




----------



## Desolutional

I think the issue with x-server is related to the open nouveau driver, not the official nVidia "proprietary" one. For the first boot, use "-nomodeset" switch in place of "-quietsplash" (press "e" on the GRUB boot menu, hold Shift when booting Linux to access GRUB), then immediately install the proprietary proper, good, functional nVidia drivers. Why they ever decided to go with open nouveau as the system default I have no idea.


----------



## Jpmboy

if anyone is interested: http://www.overclock.net/t/1611567/september-2016-foldathon-monday-26th-28th-12-noon-est-4pm-utc/0_20


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if anyone is interested: http://www.overclock.net/t/1611567/september-2016-foldathon-monday-26th-28th-12-noon-est-4pm-utc/0_20


Might have some free compute slots and a network in better shape next month. I have pretty capable and dark hardware at the moment, but no way I have them up and running by tomorrow...









In related odd news, so I moved the 5960x that was in my RVE (got kicked for the 6950x) into the X99 currently being kept warm by the 5930 (long story)...

3000CAS15 32G worked out of the box with the same 5960x that wouldn't do that before... random OC is random.

One difference is that this config is running with "only" the ASUS default OC (4.0GHz all-core turbo, stock cache - 3.0GHz?) vs the 4.7GHz (4.2cache) I normally run this particular chip. So, could just be the sum of stresses defeating the IMC's ability to OC beyond 2800.


----------



## mus1mus

Spoiler: When you wanted 1000% but boss, arrives to stop the Party!








2666 12-12-12-28-1T
VCore - 1.08
VRing - 1.08
Core - 4200
Cache - 4000
VCCSA - +0.050
VCCIN - 1.9


----------



## Cakewalk_S

If your super pi times are godly awful is that because of the power saving features enabled on my machine? Seems like when I run super pi my cpu doesn't clock to 4.5ghz and instead is around the 1ghz mark... Any idea what's going on here?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: When you wanted 1000% but boss, arrives to stop the Party!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
> 
> 2666 12-12-12-28-1T
> VCore - 1.08
> VRing - 1.08
> Core - 4200
> Cache - 4000
> VCCSA - +0.050
> VCCIN - 1.9


Nice! what VDIMM?

(looks like the boss was late to the party and missed the 2000 celebration







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> If your super pi times are godly awful is that because of the power saving features enabled on my machine? Seems like when I run super pi my cpu doesn't clock to 4.5ghz and instead is around the 1ghz mark... Any idea what's going on here?


set windows power plan to High performance (min proc state = 100%) or disable speedstep in bios.


----------



## Kimir

Yeah that's normal, PI isn't stressful. You have to force your cpu to run at full speed by setting 100% in power setting and disable c1e (not speedstep).


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Gotchya. Thanks guys. I enjoy seeing my CPU downclock to 800Mhz and sip on 7W of CPU package power and idle at 23C...


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice! what VDIMM?
> 
> (looks like the boss was late to the party and missed the 2000 celebration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


1.35 BIOS, 1.37 Windows. Same Micron Ripjaws 2400C15 kit that did 2666C13.

Yep. The boss missed that 1600% 2666C13 run.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Run hyperpi instead to test all logical cores


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Run hyperpi instead to test all logical cores


Feel free to elaborate


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Feel free to elaborate


What's to explain, hperpi put's a lot more of a load across all core's compared to superpi. Anyway neither of these test's are sufficient enough for testing memory stability for this thread.... if that's what you are trying to get at.


----------



## llantant

Just got this little beauty. 1080 FTW!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> Just got this little beauty. 1080 FTW!


quick - join in and fold with that beast.. worth 1M PPD. !









http://www.overclock.net/t/1611567/september-2016-foldathon-monday-26th-28th-12-noon-est-4pm-utc/0_20


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> 
> 
> Just got this little beauty. 1080 FTW!


Those coolers are really nice on the eye. Only let down is there are no blocks AFAIK (if wanting to go that route)


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> quick - join in and fold with that beast.. worth 1M PPD. !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1611567/september-2016-foldathon-monday-26th-28th-12-noon-est-4pm-utc/0_20


Will do!!








Ill get it done tomorrow!!

**edit I see its started, ill see if I can keep awake long enough to do it now then ha!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Those coolers are really nice on the eye. Only let down is there are no blocks AFAIK (if wanting to go that route)


Wont be going that route, plus the sexyness of this card is kinda wasted as I dont have a see through case anymore haha! Changeble LED lights that I cant see










Runs awesome though.


----------



## lilchronic

........To run superpi you will need to be running windows xp otherwise your results will always be terrible.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> ........To run superpi you will need to be running windows xp otherwise your results will always be terrible.


I know - isn't that just stupid? Gotta use a Jurassic OS. As a benchmark, it's at the bottom of my list just for that reason.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> ........To run superpi you will need to be running windows xp otherwise your results will always be terrible.


huh? what? really? why?


----------



## Kimir

Because you want the OS to use less ressources as possible, and waza.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Ah ok
Gotcha now
My bad


----------



## Dasa

still further tweaking to do but not a bad start
[email protected]\4.6 ~1.375v 4000 17-17-17-34-2T 1.438v set 1.424v detected 1.25v sa hci failed at 500%


less stable but i have also had it a 3866 c16 1t

need to install linux to speed up finding the best 24\7 speed


----------



## Mr.N00bLaR

Should I be afraid to run 1.46v through my DDR4 RAM 24/7?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.N00bLaR*
> 
> Should I be afraid to run 1.46v through my DDR4 RAM 24/7?


There are much greater things to be afraid of in the modern world. Keep the memory voltage under 1.5v for daily use


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Those coolers are really nice on the eye. Only let down is there are no blocks AFAIK (if wanting to go that route)


Actually EK just came out with a block for the 1080 FTW. I believe i saw it on performance-pcs when i was ordering my monoblock, new pump, hard tubing etc.. to upgrade my rig this morning. I know for sure i saw it on EKWB site though.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Actually EK just came out with a block for the 1080 FTW. I believe i saw it on performance-pcs when i was ordering my monoblock, new pump, hard tubing etc.. to upgrade my rig this morning. I know for sure i saw it on EKWB site though.


Looks like they're in as of September. That's a long old wait if you wanted one at launch.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> still further tweaking to do but not a bad start
> [email protected]\4.6 ~1.375v 4000 17-17-17-34-2T 1.438v set 1.424v detected 1.25v sa hci failed at 500%
> 
> 
> Ht on or off? (On phone, can't see pics well enough)
> 
> nice ram..


----------



## Dasa

ht is on hence the 8 instances of hci
i guess disabling ht would make testing a bit easier\quicker

ram is g.skill ripjaws v 3200c14 2x8g samsung b die
it surprised me just how well its doing considering its a relatively cheap kit by comparison to others

cpu is fairly stable at 47\47 with the above v just dropped it back 100mhz to make sure its not interfering with finding a stable ram speed
toped out at 48\48 1.45v which is only stable enough to benchmark while 49 wont post
may have to try individual cores once the ram is dialed in


----------



## Silent Scone

Not sure why anyone would want to run HCI with HT disabled.

4000Mhz and high uncore clocks can become difficult. This is where from a performance perspective, the voltages needed might not really make sense for this purpose. On the 6600K I tested, with 4133 I needed over 1.3v VCCSA for HCI stability. Both this rail and IO can need a considerable bump, which is when it's probably time to dial things back a notch.

Worth mentioning it also depends a lot on the board, too.


----------



## Dasa

thanks for the feedback
im slowly reading through this great thread looking for hidden gems


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> thanks for the feedback
> im slowly reading through this great thread looking for hidden gems


No problem. The Gene is a great board - but if wanting to really push that side of things, then the Impact has that area covered. Maybe try aiming for 1T at C16 3866. That's more than respectable. Especially if you can work on sub timings after establishing 1T is stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> still further tweaking to do but not a bad start
> [email protected]\4.6 ~1.375v 4000 17-17-17-34-2T 1.438v set 1.424v detected 1.25v sa hci failed at 500%
> 
> 
> less stable but i have also had it a 3866 c16 1t
> 
> need to install linux to speed up finding the best 24\7 speed


did you set the values I highlighted in yellow or did bios?

(nice ram kit!)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.N00bLaR*
> 
> Should I be afraid to run 1.46v through my DDR4 RAM 24/7?


not really. stay below 1.5V as Scone said, and if the sticks report the temp, keep an eye on it during normal use... once you get in the 40C-50C range, get some air flow on them.


----------



## MR-e

Hey guys, do Corsair Dom Plats come in Samsung B-Die?


----------



## Dasa

dam stressapp is brutal 4000 only lasted 5-10min at previous settings then with latency all relaxed significantly and v cranked it still only lasted ~30min
it passed 3866 16-16 t2 other timings at auto unfortunately it wont even post with t1 over 3600 anymore for some reason (maybe updating the bios from 1.6 to 1.9 affected this but it also fixed random post problems)
failed with tRFC at 290 so trying again at 300
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> did you set the values I highlighted in yellow or did bios?


havent found what you highlighted in yellow yet
didnt change much for that test at 4000 just tRFC from 700 to ~300 & tRRD L\S from 9 down to 6\4
a fair few settings had been tinkered with in that 3866 t1 test though
tWR tWCL didnt like being touched last i tried anything below auto it failed to post

edit: passed at 3866c16 tRFC 300 1.45v
what to try next so many choices so little difference
running mode 2 now only mode 1 would work at 4000
tREFI is at 30000 now
tightened a bunch of tertiary timings down to 4


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> dam stressapp is brutal 4000 only lasted 5-10min at previous settings then with latency all relaxed significantly and v cranked it still only lasted ~30min
> it passed 3866 16-16 t2 other timings at auto unfortunately it wont even post with t1 over 3600 anymore for some reason (maybe updating the bios from 1.6 to 1.9 affected this but it also fixed random post problems)
> failed with tRFC at 290 so trying again at 300
> havent found what you highlighted in yellow yet
> didnt change much for that test at 4000 just tRFC from 700 to ~300 & tRRD L\S from 9 down to 6\4
> a fair few settings had been tinkered with in that 3866 t1 test though
> tWR tWCL didnt like being touched last i tried anything below auto it failed to post
> 
> edit: passed at 3866c16 tRFC 300 1.45v
> what to try next so many choices so little difference
> running mode 2 now only mode 1 would work at 4000
> tREFI is at 30000 now
> tightened a bunch of tertiary timings down to 4


I'd post up a memtweak shot before you go any further.


----------



## Dasa

cpu is currently back at stock it may be possible to reduce v from sa 1.25 vtt 1.2 vdimm 1.452


edit: well after powering off 3866 t1 is posting again now to see just how stable it really is


----------



## Cakewalk_S

How much does memory voltage effect timings and MHz? I upped my 2800MHz to 3000MHz and kept my timings the same 16-16-16-37 2T but went from 1.35 to 1.36..lol Seems stable. We'll see in 6 hours or so...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> cpu is currently back at stock it may be possible to reduce v from sa 1.25 vtt 1.2 vdimm 1.452
> 
> 
> edit: well after powering off 3866 t1 is posting again now to see just how stable it really is


you did not find them in the pic i posted or in bios? (what MB is that?)

anyway - on some asus 4 slot boards when running >3600, you need to set the 4 highlighted timings to the same value as CAS otherwise you will get code 55 (frequently) during boot. in the pic above they are at 12 (all four) change all four to 16.


----------



## Dasa

didnt find the pic you posted but did find some talk about those settings back around page 50 of this thread
if it has trouble posting again i will up them to 16 thanks

z170 gene
posted some performance tests and details on the system over here
http://www.overclock.net/t/1611359/3770k-vs-6700k-in-fallout-4-arma-3-rainbow-six-siege-with-core-cache-memory-scaling-ddr3-1600c11-2133c9-ddr4-2133c15-3000c12-4000c17


----------



## Wijkert

Hi guys. I could use some pointers. I would like to overclocking my ram, both for the hell of it and maybe to get some real life performance gains as well (mostly for gaming). So I have a Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 kit. It has been running on its XMP profile since I build this system: 16-18-18-36 2T. The command rate in the XMP profile actually has a value of 1, but the auto setting of my mobo set it to 2. Anyway, I have been tinkering with the timings and 15-16-16-36 1T, dram voltage 1.353(auto) and sa voltage 1.216(auto) was almost stable; it crashed at ~190% running HCI Memtest in windows (8 instances; 1800mb each).

My 6700k is running at 4.6ghz, 1.335v. Validated running the x264 stresstest (16T) for 10+ hours.

I suspect that a higher clock rate instead of lower timings would be more beneficial for me, since most games would respond better to that overclock. Any help is much appreciated.


----------



## Dasa

unfortunately 3866 1t was not stable
changing between 1t-2t really screws with the training it wont boot over 3466 without turning the system off for a while after changing it up or down

tightened up secondary timings a bit and dropped the v passed stressapp 1 hour bumped cpu back up to 4.6ghz core\cache about to run hci


----------



## Silent Scone

1T at those speeds can be tricky. The Gene is only really rated for up to 3733 regardless. Beyond this things can become difficult, as you are discovering for yourself.


----------



## Derp

Is it possible to use a bootable Mint USB drive and just run the Google stressapp test without actually installing Mint on the system? I don't want to deal with any dual boot shenanigans with my Windows 10 install.

Oops, this has been asked already.


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- 6950X @ 4.3 / 3.7 --- 3400 C14 15 15 36 2T ---1.375v --- SA 1.03v --- Stressapptest --- 1 Hour

Failed at 3400 C14 14 14 36 2T at up to 1.4 vdimm and passed 3200 C13 14 14 36 2T at the above voltage.

Only touched 4 primary settings as not enough knowledge yet.


----------



## Kimir

that's pretty good, and that's a nice 6950X too, 4.3Ghz with such voltage!
You can try the profile in the R5E, like the 4x8 samsung 1.65v 3200mhz and change back the main timing to what you got stable and see how it does with the secondary timings that are modified with the profile. (that's the profile I used as base before tweaking further myself)


----------



## glnn_23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> that's pretty good, and that's a nice 6950X too, 4.3Ghz with such voltage!
> You can try the profile in the R5E, like the 4x8 samsung 1.65v 3200mhz and change back the main timing to what you got stable and see how it does with the secondary timings that are modified with the profile. (that's the profile I used as base before tweaking further myself)


Thanks Kimir for the info, I'll give that a try.


----------



## Blameless

Anyone know how well the SK Hynix H5AN4G8NMFR dies are supposed to clock?

Plenty of cheap stuff around using these ICs and I'm trying to decide whether I should buy a few dozen DIMMs to hand-bin.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Anyone know how well the SK Hynix H5AN4G8NMFR dies are supposed to clock?
> 
> Plenty of cheap stuff around using these ICs and I'm trying to decide whether I should buy a few dozen DIMMs to hand-bin.


what do you mean by hand-bin?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> what do you mean by hand-bin?


Test them to see what they can do and keep the best 4-8 dimms from a large batch for my primary systems (then put the rest in systems that don't need fast memory).

Generic memory, at least from companies without an enthusiast brand of their own, is usually completely unsorted, beyond what the IC manufacturer has labeled on their parts. This means that some portion of the modules are likely to do far better than what they are spec'd for.

All that super fast DDR4 you see out there...the ICs used on them were probably never rated higher than 2400-3200MT/s from the manufacturer. Even DDR4 4000+ are just the best ICs from a large batch of much slower rated stuff.

I just need to know if these ICs have a wide enough spread of headroom potential for it to be worthwhile. Some have very little variance and don't OC much at all, but some ICs are known to commonly exceed their specification by wide margins.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Test them to see what they can do and keep the best 4-8 dimms from a large batch for my primary systems (then put the rest in systems that don't need fast memory).
> 
> Generic memory, at least from companies without an enthusiast brand of their own, is usually completely unsorted, beyond what the IC manufacturer has labeled on their parts. This means that some portion of the modules are likely to do far better than what they are spec'd for.
> 
> All that super fast DDR4 you see out there...the ICs used on them were probably never rated higher than 2400-3200MT/s from the manufacturer. Even DDR4 4000+ are just the best ICs from a large batch of much slower rated stuff.
> 
> I just need to know if these ICs have a wide enough spread of headroom potential for it to be worthwhile. Some have very little variance and don't OC much at all, but some ICs are known to commonly exceed their specification by wide margins.


ok ty. sounds like fun... hope you get some good ones. wouldnt you need to be lucky to get two so similar that they can do dual channel effectivly?


----------



## Kimir

This SKU is the so called MFR. You can read this about what they can do (or actually the article linked to this news of hwbot), to take with grain of salt as those OC are not said to be stable, if they are, there is no proof of that.
My hyper Predator 2666c13 I bought at first when got my my x99 are MFR, I did 15-16-16 with 1.41v with them.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> wouldnt you need to be lucky to get two so similar that they can do dual channel effectivly?


They don't need to be that similar and even most DIMMs sold as kits have significant variances.

Using memory together simply means you are constrained to the lowest common denominator of the sticks you have...and even that isn't always a hard rule as many boards allow timings to be set per-channel. Once I find the best four of however many sticks I bin, chances are the settings I used for the fourth fastest stick will work fine for the best four together, with some minor adjustments depending on the IMC.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> This SKU is the so called MFR. You can read this about what they can do (or actually the article linked to this news of hwbot), to take with grain of salt as those OC are not said to be stable, if they are, there is no proof of that.
> My hyper Predator 2666c13 I bought at first when got my my x99 are MFR, I did 15-16-16 with 1.41v with them.


Thanks for the info.

Just needed to know if there was enough chance of getting decent (something appreciably better than stock JEDEC, not looking to set any records) ones to bother trying my luck. From what I can tell, the MFRs at least respond to voltage better than the Micron ICs on most of my current DDR4.

Do you happen to know what speed grade (PB, RD, TF, or UH) your MFR ICs were? And what clock speed were those timings and volts at?


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Just needed to know if there was enough chance of getting decent (something appreciably better than stock JEDEC, not looking to set any records) ones to bother trying my luck. From what I can tell, the MFRs at least respond to voltage better than the Micron ICs on most of my current DDR4.
> 
> Do you happen to know what speed grade (PB, RD, TF, or UH) your MFR ICs were? And what clock speed were those timings and volts at?


I don't know about the speed grade thingy, if that's on the IC well I didn't remove the heat spreader. Oh and the 15-16-16 was at 3200Mhz.

This is what I did with my HyperX HX426C13PB2K4/16 before I got the TZ B-die based.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Blameless

Those are fairly promising results. I think I'll grab a few and see how well they clock then buy more if I get any standout samples.


----------



## Dasa

Ok this may do for now could probably reduce some of the v some more but its time to get back to playing games
removed the territory timing tweaks for hci stability at no real cost to memory performance other than maybe .1ms

aida64 tests at this speed have spiked to as high as
read 56900 write 60000 copy 54500 latency 36.5ms
as slow as
read 54900 write59000 copy 50500 latency 37ms

Dasa--i76700K @4.7/4.6---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-34-2T----1.425v---SA 1.25v---IO 1.2v---HCI 1000%


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> They don't need to be that similar and even most DIMMs sold as kits have significant variances.
> 
> Using memory together simply means you are constrained to the lowest common denominator of the sticks you have...and even that isn't always a hard rule as many boards allow timings to be set per-channel. Once I find the best four of however many sticks I bin, chances are the settings I used for the fourth fastest stick will work fine for the best four together, with some minor adjustments depending on the IMC.
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Just needed to know if there was enough chance of getting decent (something appreciably better than stock JEDEC, not looking to set any records) ones to bother trying my luck. From what I can tell, the MFRs at least respond to voltage better than the Micron ICs on most of my current DDR4.
> 
> Do you happen to know what speed grade (PB, RD, TF, or UH) your MFR ICs were? And what clock speed were those timings and volts at?


ok gotcha

how do i find out what my speed grade is too?
ddr4 3200 corsair vengeance led 16-18-18-36 2t


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> Ok this may do for now could probably reduce some of the v some more but its time to get back to playing games
> removed the territory timing tweaks for hci stability at no real cost to memory performance other than maybe .1ms
> 
> aida64 tests at this speed have spiked to as high as
> read 56900 write 60000 copy 54500 latency 36.5ms
> as slow as
> read 54900 write59000 copy 50500 latency 37ms
> 
> Dasa--i76700K @4.7/4.6---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-34-2T----1.425v---SA 1.25v---IO 1.2v---HCI 1000%
> 
> wow! thats some NICE ram
> 
> rxcuse my ignorance... whats HCI?


----------



## Kimir

Please, edit your post instead of creating following posts.
HCI memtest is the software used to test the RAM, it's in his first screenshot as well as explained in OP.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> how do i find out what my speed grade is too?
> ddr4 3200 corsair vengeance led 16-18-18-36 2t


The speed grades I mentioned are how the IC manufacturer (SKHynix in this case) initially sorts it's MFR parts.

For your memory you'd need to see the actual ICs or look up the part number and revision on a list of Corsair memory, to know what parts and speed grade they use. Also, anything from Corsair is likely to be carefully sorted already, so the odds of huge amounts of headroom being available on their mid-range stuff, above and beyond what it's rated for, is usually pretty slim.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> The speed grades I mentioned are how the IC manufacturer (SKHynix in this case) initially sorts it's MFR parts.
> 
> For your memory you'd need to see the actual ICs or look up the part number and revision on a list of Corsair memory, to know what parts and speed grade they use. Also, anything from Corsair is likely to be carefully sorted already, so the odds of huge amounts of headroom being available on their mid-range stuff, above and beyond what it's rated for, is usually pretty slim.


ok thanks

i have had my kit to 3600 at xpm settings for 3200
alternatively i can tighten 3200 to 15-15-15-32 2t

but really dont see the difference i saw in ddr3 by doing it if any.... different benchmarks rate frequency OR latency ....

i've seen a review of a 4 slot kit of my ram doing 13-13-13-3X 1t / or 3722Mhz at xmp timings although i cant get those to even post but given i'm sure that reviewers get sent some LOVELY kits to play with i shouldnt be too surprised....


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Got my memory running 3200 16-17-17-37 2T... 1.360V. Pretty happy with that! Especially considering XMP is 3600 19-20-20-39....


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Got my memory running 3200 16-17-17-37 2T... 1.360V. Pretty happy with that! Especially considering XMP is 3600 19-20-20-39....


nice, can you get 16-18-18-36 2t at 3600?


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Please, edit your post instead of creating following posts.
> HCI memtest is the software used to test the RAM, it's in his first screenshot as well as explained in OP.


i tend to stuff up when i do multiple quotes (or even one as you can see Miss ocd much? lol

i saw the hci memtest thing but thought the HCI might stand for something... pretty sure it must... any ideas?


----------



## Jpmboy

ugh.. I had 4133c17 running on the M8E with VSA at 1.275V, 1.270V failed boot on occasion, and higher did not seem to help any. ~ 200% and it popped 1 error. killed the run and back to square zero....


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ugh.. I had 4133c17 running on the M8E with VSA at 1.275V, 1.270V failed boot on occasion, and higher did not seem to help any. ~ 200% and it popped 1 error. killed the run and back to square zero....


Yeah up there can get messy, really pushing the CPU limits as well as everything else


----------



## sdrawkcab

How much does a guide like this apply to DDR4?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1536669/perfect-ram-timing-rule-posting-resuts-of-using-the-rule-is-appreciated/10
Stumbled upon this guide from another post and since I have two different ram kits coming in I'm curious whether those formulas will apply on DDR4. I'm using presets from the Rampage V Extreme which I can pass minimum of 1hour with GSAT now and the timings are very different than these formulas. I've only read the tertiary timings post on ROG forums and have not kept up much with ram OC for DDR4.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> How much does a guide like this apply to DDR4?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1536669/perfect-ram-timing-rule-posting-resuts-of-using-the-rule-is-appreciated/10
> Stumbled upon this guide from another post and since I have two different ram kits coming in I'm curious whether those formulas will apply on DDR4. I'm using presets from the Rampage V Extreme which I can pass minimum of 1hour with GSAT now and the timings are very different than these formulas. I've only read the tertiary timings post on ROG forums and have not kept up much with ram OC for DDR4.


That guide is ill-informed, to say the least. The author doesn't have a clue what the timings do or their relationships to one another.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Raja
Can you point in the right direction for those timing relationships please?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdrawkcab*
> 
> How much does a guide like this apply to DDR4?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1536669/perfect-ram-timing-rule-posting-resuts-of-using-the-rule-is-appreciated/10
> Stumbled upon this guide from another post and since I have two different ram kits coming in I'm curious whether those formulas will apply on DDR4. I'm using presets from the Rampage V Extreme which I can pass minimum of 1hour with GSAT now and the timings are very different than these formulas. I've only read the tertiary timings post on ROG forums and have not kept up much with ram OC for DDR4.


I saw that post when it first showed up... absolute nonsense. Complete BS.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Raja
> Can you point in the right direction for those timing relationships please?


you want the JEDEC doc?

JESD79-4.pdf 3864k .pdf file


and from the OP: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I saw that post when it first showed up... absolute nonsense. Complete BS.
> you want the JEDEC doc?
> 
> JESD79-4.pdf 3864k .pdf file
> 
> 
> and from the OP: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking


I'm getting an error trying to open the pdf attachment - is it just me?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I'm getting an error trying to open the pdf attachment - is it just me?


lol - I am too.

try again:

JESD79-4.pdf 3864k .pdf file


nope... still gives an error - it opens on my machine just fine.









try this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gpMyj43ZFjem9iazBRb1Q5Mzg


----------



## djgar

That one worked


----------



## marik123

Do any of you guys have a success chance of running DDR4 4000? I bought the Gskill 16gb (2x8gb) DDR4-3200 RAM with CL14, (has the samsung chip in it), got it all the way up to 3733mhz 16-16-16-36 2T @ 1.35v stock voltage and auto on VCCIO (1v in bios) /VCCSA (1.05v in bios). I tried up the VCCIO to 1.25v and VSSA to 1.3v with 3866mhz 17-17-17-38 / 18-18-18-39 @ 1.4v RAM, the system will boot sometimes, memtest86 100% stable, but crash in windows Any suggestion guys?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marik123*
> 
> Do any of you guys have a success chance of running DDR4 4000? I bought the Gskill 16gb (2x8gb) DDR4-3200 RAM with CL14, (has the samsung chip in it), got it all the way up to 3733mhz 16-16-16-36 2T @ 1.35v stock voltage and auto on VCCIO (1v in bios) /VCCSA (1.05v in bios). I tried up the VCCIO to 1.25v and VSSA to 1.3v with 3866mhz 17-17-17-38 / 18-18-18-39 @ 1.4v RAM, the system will boot sometimes, memtest86 100% stable, but crash in windows Any suggestion guys?


For 3866Mhz try 18-19-19-39 or for 4000Mhz try 19-21-21-41.


----------



## marik123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> For 3866Mhz try 18-19-19-39 or for 4000Mhz try 19-21-21-41.


I tried 4000 @ 21-21-21-41, no boot.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marik123*
> 
> I tried 4000 @ 21-21-21-41, no boot.


you try with 19-21-21?


----------



## marik123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> you try with 19-21-21?


Yes and no boot, no matter what the timing is at 4000mhz RAM, even with VCCIO crank up to 1.35v and VSSA 1.35v. I even try to push RAM voltage to 1.45v, same thing.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marik123*
> 
> Yes and no boot, no matter what the timing is at 4000mhz RAM, even with VCCIO crank up to 1.35v and VSSA 1.35v. I even try to push RAM voltage to 1.45v, same thing.


Yeah i picked up a 3733Mhz kit and i can go up 4133Mhz 19-21-21-41-1T @1.45v but 3600Mhz cl 16 i have problems with stability. It's really weird since i have a 3200Mhz cl14 kit in my x99 system which runs on skylake 6600k @ 3600Mhz cl15 1.45VDIMM and this 3733Mhz kit cant do it .


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah i picked up a 3733Mhz kit and i can go up 4133Mhz 19-21-21-41-1T @1.45v but 3600Mhz cl 16 i have problems with stability. It's really weird since i have a 3200Mhz cl14 kit in my x99 system which runs on skylake 6600k @ 3600Mhz cl15 1.45VDIMM and this 3733Mhz kit cant do it .


look for the settings I highlighted in the pic below,, make sure these are set to the same value as CAS.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> look for the settings I highlighted in the pic below,, make sure these are set to the same value as CAS.


Yeah i always set those the same as cas


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah i picked up a 3733Mhz kit and i can go up 4133Mhz 19-21-21-41-1T @1.45v but 3600Mhz cl 16 i have problems with stability. It's really weird since i have a 3200Mhz cl14 kit in my x99 system which runs on skylake 6600k @ 3600Mhz cl15 1.45VDIMM and this 3733Mhz kit cant do it .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> look for the settings I highlighted in the pic below,, make sure these are set to the same value as CAS.
Click to expand...

Does the CAS thing apply to a 5960x?









Edit: Google is your friend. Seems to be a Z170 only thing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah i always set those the same as cas


I just can't find two sticks that can do 12-11-11 at higher than 2750.









you might be interested in this: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=162075


----------



## sdrawkcab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> That guide is ill-informed, to say the least. The author doesn't have a clue what the timings do or their relationships to one another.


I've read many of your postings on ROG forum and thank you for sharing your knowledge with the communities. It is very much appreciated.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I saw that post when it first showed up... absolute nonsense. Complete BS.
> you want the JEDEC doc?
> 
> JESD79-4.pdf 3864k .pdf file
> 
> 
> and from the OP: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking


Good to know!! Many thanks to both of you.


----------



## marik123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah i picked up a 3733Mhz kit and i can go up 4133Mhz 19-21-21-41-1T @1.45v but 3600Mhz cl 16 i have problems with stability. It's really weird since i have a 3200Mhz cl14 kit in my x99 system which runs on skylake 6600k @ 3600Mhz cl15 1.45VDIMM and this 3733Mhz kit cant do it .


I was able to boot with 4000mhz RAM one time and then that's it. It doesn't matter how much voltage I apply to it, change the TRDWR timing, relax it all way to 19-21-21-41 2T @ 1.45v, no go even with VCCIO 1.3v and VSSA 1.35v with CPU clock back to 4ghz stock. My absolutely best is at 3733mhz 16-16-16-36 2T 1.4v.









PS: What's the max safe voltage I can push to my DDR4 RAM for skylake? I was pushing 1.665v in my previous 4790k for my DDR3 and I even got up to 1.7v and there is no issues.


----------



## kx11

super stable performance at these rates


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marik123*
> 
> I was able to boot with 4000mhz RAM one time and then that's it. It doesn't matter how much voltage I apply to it, change the TRDWR timing, relax it all way to 19-21-21-41 2T @ 1.45v, no go even with VCCIO 1.3v and VSSA 1.35v with CPU clock back to 4ghz stock. My absolutely best is at 3733mhz 16-16-16-36 2T 1.4v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: What's the max safe voltage I can push to my DDR4 RAM for skylake? I was pushing 1.665v in my previous 4790k for my DDR3 and I even got up to 1.7v and there is no issues.


Depends on the board too. Not all boards are capable of those speeds.


----------



## Kalistoval

How does one get pasted the black screen on linux mint?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalistoval*
> 
> How does one get pasted the black screen on linux mint?


what black screen?


----------



## marik123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Depends on the board too. Not all boards are capable of those speeds.


I pretty much just stick to 3733mhz for now as stock speed for my RAM is 3200 @ cl14, no complains there.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what black screen?


You know, the one that shows nothing when you're pasted ...


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalistoval*
> 
> How does one get pasted the black screen on linux mint?


If your on a pascal card not much you can do. Other option is to run a CLI only version of Linux and run stress app from apt get.

Other option is to use a non pascal GPU install mint, load the latest version of NV drivers that support pascal and swap GPUs


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> If your on a pascal card not much you can do. Other option is to run a CLI only version of Linux and run stress app from apt get.
> 
> *Other option is to use a non pascal GPU install mint, load the latest version of NV drivers that support pascal and swap GPUs*


^^ This !


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> If your on a pascal card not much you can do. Other option is to run a CLI only version of Linux and run stress app from apt get.
> 
> Other option is to use a non pascal GPU install mint, load the latest version of NV drivers that support pascal and swap GPUs


I've posted this previously:
1. add rdblacklist=nouveau nomodeset to your kernel command line at the installer (at your first install screen, you should get an option to edit the kernel command line even prior to first boot of the installer).
2. install-run in vga mode (yes, it will be some low, horrible resolution, but still give you a GUI)
a. run stress-app with generic vga if that's all you are here for
OR
b. once you've installed as above with the default VGA driver, install the nvidia proprietary drivers

pascall+linux works with the nvidia drivers, but even maxwell required this 2-step process until recent nouveau (the opensource driver for nvidia) edits to support it, but they require bleeding edge kernels.


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I've posted this previously:
> 1. add rdblacklist=nouveau nomodeset to your kernel command line at the installer (at your first install screen, you should get an option to edit the kernel command line even prior to first boot of the installer).
> 2. install-run in vga mode (yes, it will be some low, horrible resolution, but still give you a GUI)
> a. run stress-app with generic vga if that's all you are here for
> OR
> b. once you've installed as above with the default VGA driver, install the nvidia proprietary drivers
> 
> pascall+linux works with the nvidia drivers, but even maxwell required this 2-step process until recent nouveau (the opensource driver for nvidia) edits to support it, but they require bleeding edge kernels.


Does not work for me with a variety of distros. Parted Magic, Linux mint 17 & 18. Not 100% sure why.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Does not work for me with a variety of distros. Parted Magic, Linux mint 17 & 18. Not 100% sure why.


Hmm, looks like some of the distros have adopted a different blacklist format and/or have an additional issue I don't see in Centos/RH/Suse
Try this:
1. nouveau.blacklist=1
but, also read this - you might need to modify the nomodeset as well.
2. https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/842

The basic objective is the same - disable the opensource driver.


----------



## llantant

Hey guys.

Not been on in a while, work busy etc...

Had some free time lately so decided to mess with my memory OC a little.

I have 3600mhz stable for 1200% memtest and 2 hour stressapp at 3600mhz 16/16/16/36 2T.
Ill post screenies for inclusion when I finish the OC with 1T etc...

It could be in my head but it actually feels snappier in Windows and benches a decent amount better than 17/17/18/38 1T.

Oh and I have Ram voltage at 1.35 and VCCIO 1.2 and SA at 1.225, which I do prefer alot over Auto values for SA/VCCIO.

Anyway, my question is my tRFC always sets auto rather high with these sticks at 535 clocks at any speed i choose. Now, is it worth reducing this? and if so, how much do I reduce it? are there set values for certain speeds?

Thanks in advance.

**I think its one of the newer BIOS that is letting me do CL16 because I'm sure I couldn't do it before!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Hey guys.
> 
> Not been on in a while, work busy etc...
> 
> Had some free time lately so decided to mess with my memory OC a little.
> 
> I have 3600mhz stable for 1200% memtest and 2 hour stressapp at 3600mhz 16/16/16/36 2T.
> Ill post screenies for inclusion when I finish the OC with 1T etc...
> 
> It could be in my head but it actually feels snappier in Windows and benches a decent amount better than 17/17/18/38 1T.
> 
> Oh and I have Ram voltage at 1.35 and VCCIO 1.2 and SA at 1.225, which I do prefer alot over Auto values for SA/VCCIO.
> 
> Anyway, my question is my tRFC always sets auto rather high with these sticks at 535 clocks at any speed i choose. Now, is it worth reducing this? and if so, how much do I reduce it? are there set values for certain speeds?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> **I think its one of the newer BIOS that is letting me do CL16 because I'm sure I couldn't do it before!!


tRFC will scale higher with the density on the die, rank and frequency. How far you can adjust this setting like most timings depends on the capability of the kit being used. Messing with cell retention has a lot of implications that aren't really obvious even with the tests in this thread for 24/7 use


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Anyway, my question is my tRFC always sets auto rather high with these sticks at 535 clocks at any speed i choose. Now, is it worth reducing this? and if so, how much do I reduce it? are there set values for certain speeds?


If you are asking about refresh, then smaller value means lower RAM speed. And risking RAM instability by using too high values isn't worthy.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Anyway, my question is my tRFC always sets auto rather high with these sticks at 535 clocks at any speed i choose. Now, is it worth reducing this? and if so, how much do I reduce it? are there set values for certain speeds?
> 
> 
> 
> If you are asking about refresh, then smaller value means lower RAM speed. And risking RAM instability by using too high values isn't worthy.
Click to expand...

I max out my tREFI at 32767 on my 5960x and I pass GSAT just fine.

I have a really good method to get secondary and third timings really tight as well.

What I do is first find the best main timings I'm stable at at the best speed I can. My G.Skill 8x4GB 3000 is stable at 3200 15-16-16-33 1T. Figure that out with GSAT first with everything else on Auto.

I manually change a few things I know works like tRTP to 4, tFAW to 16, DRAM REf Cycle Time to 278, like I said tREFI maxed out to 32767, CAS Write Latency to 14, lowest it boots at, the three TRWD settings at 4, and a few other tweaks I know that's stable, then I set the RAM divider lower, in my case the 1866 is the one I'm using, , everything else on Auto. Then I reboot, manually set the rest of the timings as they show at that RAM speed. Put RAM divider back at 3200, reboot again, works GSAT stable!

1866 was the lowest I could use GSAT stable after rebooting to 3200.

I found that was the quickest way to find the tightest secondaries I could use with my RAM. You might be able to do a few minor tweaks afterwards as well that make improve your benchmark.

Have had zero crashes in Windows so all is well. This is my AIDA64 after doing this which isn't too shabby and my final timing settings.










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> tRFC will scale higher with the density on the die, rank and frequency. How far you can adjust this setting like most timings depends on the capability of the kit being used. Messing with cell retention has a lot of implications that aren't really obvious even with the tests in this thread for 24/7 use


Ok great, I'll leave as is then. Thanks.


----------



## Raghar

Oh yes refresh cycle. It's all fine and dandy until auto settings of MB would set it 3 cycles too low.

After that I set it always by hand with extensive paranoia.


----------



## MattBaneLM

What's gsat?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> What's gsat?


Easiest way to test memory in Linux.

Download this Puppy Linux ISO.

http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/tahr64-6.0.5.iso

Make USB With Rufus 'MBR for CSM/UEFI' option. https://rufus.akeo.ie/

Enable CSM and Fastboot in BIOS, and change in BIOS Secure Boot to 'Other O/S', boot from USB NOT using the UEFI option in BIOS, , search stressapptest in Puppy Package Manager, install it, profit!! Also in Puppy Package Manager install Gnome Terminal as the one comes with Puppy you cannot copy and paste commands into it easily. In the Puppy Package Manager be sure to update the repos in the wrench/screwdriver icon as well to find all the apps I mention. I installed the Gnome Screenshot app as well.









Don't even need to install to hard disk, it runs from the USB. When you reboot choose the Save file option to the USB Puppy is on or if you boot into it again you'll need to reinstall stressapptest and gnome terminal again.

It also works with Titan X's and other NVidia cards that people with Linux Mint have trouble installing the O/S.









Edit: Once installed open "Terminal" and copy/paste the following: stressapptest -W -s 3600
This will run the stressapp for one hour. The test will log any errors as it runs.


----------



## MattBaneLM

oh ok ty. i keep meaning to try a linux boot...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I max out my tREFI at 32767 on my 5960x and I pass GSAT just fine.
> 
> I have a really good method to get secondary and third timings really tight as well.
> 
> What I do is first find the best main timings I'm stable at at the best speed I can. My G.Skill 8x4GB 3000 is stable at 3200 15-16-16-33 1T. Figure that out with GSAT first with everything else on Auto.
> 
> I manually change a few things I know works like tRTP to 4, tFAW to 16, DRAM REf Cycle Time to 278, like I said tREFI maxed out to 32767, CAS Write Latency to 14, lowest it boots at, the three TRWD settings at 4, and a few other tweaks I know that's stable, then I set the RAM divider lower, in my case the 1866 is the one I'm using, , everything else on Auto. Then I reboot, manually set the rest of the timings as they show at that RAM speed. Put RAM divider back at 3200, reboot again, works GSAT stable!
> 
> 1866 was the lowest I could use GSAT stable after rebooting to 3200.
> 
> I found that was the quickest way to find the tightest secondaries I could use with my RAM. You might be able to do a few minor tweaks afterwards as well that make improve your benchmark.
> 
> Have had zero crashes in Windows so all is well. This is my AIDA64 after doing this which isn't too shabby and my final timing settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


nice.. but remember, tFAW is dependent on tRRD: faw = 4xRRD, or the board will correct the timing error. BTW - very long refresh is fine, as long as you do not use "suspend to ram".


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Oh yes refresh cycle. It's all fine and dandy until auto settings of MB would set it 3 cycles too low.
> 
> After that I set it always by hand with extensive paranoia.


Oh so lower the number is slower ???

I always leave it on auto, I just thought 535 seemed high. They are 8gb sticks.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I max out my tREFI at 32767 on my 5960x and I pass GSAT just fine.
> 
> I have a really good method to get secondary and third timings really tight as well.
> 
> What I do is first find the best main timings I'm stable at at the best speed I can. My G.Skill 8x4GB 3000 is stable at 3200 15-16-16-33 1T. Figure that out with GSAT first with everything else on Auto.
> 
> I manually change a few things I know works like tRTP to 4, tFAW to 16, DRAM REf Cycle Time to 278, like I said tREFI maxed out to 32767, CAS Write Latency to 14, lowest it boots at, the three TRWD settings at 4, and a few other tweaks I know that's stable, then I set the RAM divider lower, in my case the 1866 is the one I'm using, , everything else on Auto. Then I reboot, manually set the rest of the timings as they show at that RAM speed. Put RAM divider back at 3200, reboot again, works GSAT stable!
> 
> 1866 was the lowest I could use GSAT stable after rebooting to 3200.
> 
> I found that was the quickest way to find the tightest secondaries I could use with my RAM. You might be able to do a few minor tweaks afterwards as well that make improve your benchmark.
> 
> Have had zero crashes in Windows so all is well. This is my AIDA64 after doing this which isn't too shabby and my final timing settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nice.. but remember, tFAW is dependent on tRRD: faw = 4xRRD, or the board will correct the timing error. BTW - very long refresh is fine, as long as you do not use "suspend to ram".
Click to expand...

So this is correct below, right, Jpmboy?

And if I use a small RAM disk for my browser cache high tREFI won't be an issue? I think I read somewhere it might now that I recall.


----------



## marik123

After 2 days of testing, my max is at 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 2T @ 1.4v. 3733mhz will work fine in windows, but give blue screen sometimes randomly during gaming, so I had to turn a notch down.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> So this is correct below, right, Jpmboy?
> 
> And if I use a small RAM disk for my browser cache high tREFI won't be an issue? I think I read somewhere it might now that I recall.


yeah - that's the correct faw:rrd. IDK re: tREFI at that level.. 22066 works fine and has been trouble free with ram disks and sleep/suspend to ram. One thing in your timings that may improve things a bit is to set tWCL to 9. MOst kits are fine with this and it drives some other timings to you benefit.








3400c13 on a 3200c14 64GB kit. 1.45V for many months now...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> So this is correct below, right, Jpmboy?
> 
> And if I use a small RAM disk for my browser cache high tREFI won't be an issue? I think I read somewhere it might now that I recall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah - that's the correct faw:rrd. IDK re: tREFI at that level.. 22066 works fine and has been trouble free with ram disks and sleep/suspend to ram. One thing in your timings that may improve things a bit is to set tWCL to 9. MOst kits are fine with this and it drives some other timings to you benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3400c13 on a 3200c14 64GB kit. 1.45V for many months now...
Click to expand...

Won't boot at anything below 14.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Won't boot at anything below 14.


Ugh! That's the samsung 8x4GB kit if I remember?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Won't boot at anything below 14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh! That's the samsung 8x4GB kit if I remember?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 8x4GB 3000 G.Skill kit, but unlike the one you had mine is Samsung, not Hynix.


----------



## Jpmboy

Update entry:

jpmboy -- [email protected]/3.7 R5E-10 --- 64GB GS Tz [email protected]; VDIMM 1.45V, VSA 1.05; --- 1h GSAT.



I used the puppy linux KederWolf posted, from a USB stick... worked like a charm (+1) with 2 TitanXPs on board. I usd a 4GB stick.. the Puppy OS takes less than 2GB.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Yeah, the 8x4GB 3000 G.Skill kit, but unlike the one you had mine is Samsung, not Hynix.


NOt sure the Hynix are any better - just different, what voltage are you running those at?


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llantant*
> 
> Oh so lower the number is slower ???
> 
> I always leave it on auto, I just thought 535 seemed high. They are 8gb sticks.


Too small refresh cycle would kill stability in really bad and hard to detect way. Too small refresh interval would slow down RAM, too large would kill data in RAM. Considering you are using 3733 MHz RAM your refresh cycle isn't that high.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Update entry:
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected]/3.7 R5E-10 --- 64GB GS Tz [email protected]; VDIMM 1.45V, VSA 1.05; --- 1h GSAT.
> 
> 
> 
> I used the puppy linux KederWolf posted, from a USB stick... worked like a charm (+1) with 2 TitanXPs on board. I usd a 4GB stick.. the Puppy OS takes less than 2GB.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Yeah, the 8x4GB 3000 G.Skill kit, but unlike the one you had mine is Samsung, not Hynix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NOt sure the Hynix are any better - just different, what voltage are you running those at?
Click to expand...

1.4V Eventual, I tried them at 1.45v but they aren't b-die, never helped, find I have trouble over say 1.42v max. Couldn't even do tighter timings even by adding System Agent and CPU Input as well. And at 1.42 I do no better than 1.4.


----------



## llantant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Too small refresh cycle would kill stability in really bad and hard to detect way. Too small refresh interval would slow down RAM, too large would kill data in RAM. Considering you are using 3733 MHz RAM your refresh cycle isn't that high.


Thanks. It's currently at 3600 cl16.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- ASUS X99-A II motherboard -- i7 [email protected]/4.5 -- CPU Adaptive 1.316v Additional Voltage -- Cache Offset .395/1.258v -- SA Offset .333/1.128v -- CPU Input 1.93v -- LLC 5 8x16GB Corsair LPX 3000 RAM At 2666Mhz C12-12-12-26-1T 1.41v

Not a bad AIDA64 bench for 128GB I think.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> KedarWolf -- ASUS X99-A II motherboard -- i7 [email protected]/4.5 -- CPU Adaptive 1.316v Additional Voltage -- Cache Offset .395/1.258v -- SA Offset .333/1.128v -- CPU Input 1.93v -- LLC 5 8x16GB Corsair LPX 3000 RAM At 2666Mhz C12-12-12-26-1T 1.41v
> 
> Not a bad AIDA64 bench for 128GB I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [


daaum good benchmark for 2666!


----------



## carlhil2

I went cas12 @2666 also.....


----------



## MattBaneLM

yes very nice

guys, any thoughts here?
XMP is [email protected] 16-18-18-36 2t

apart from main timings i have changed
tWR from 24 to 20
tRFC to 425 from 5xx
tFAW to 44 from 48
and the one im really not sure about where to have it most i changed tREFI to 11860 from 11430 (doubled it)

im trying to get 3600 to show a substantial benefit over 3200 but not seeing much...

thoughts on timing relations and which ones im not calculation to work WITH EACH OTHER correctly?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> daaum good benchmark for 2666!


On an entry level board as well, great setup


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> daaum good benchmark for 2666!
> 
> 
> 
> On an entry level board as well, great setup
Click to expand...

I'm really lucky to have a chip that'll do those clocks on those voltages too. And it's an RMA of a chip that died that did 4.6/4.4 on pretty much the same voltages.


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy -- 5960X @ 4.6 -- 32GB 3200c14 @ 3200c13(tight) w/ 1.425V VSA 1.000V --- HCI 1000%


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice!


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy and other kind peeps. I got my 32GB kit running at CAS Write Latency (tWCL) 9 now!! The problem I think was I had the Write Recovery Time (tWR) at 14 and I'm pretty sure it stopped me from lowering tWCL lower then 14. Now i have tWR at 12 and can put tWCL to 9!!

Edit: Weird, I just tested it with tWR at 14, booted. I made a lot of other changes, not sure what exactly I did to fix that. Could too much RAM voltage be the culprit., I'm using less now. :/

I'm so glad I figured this out, helps benches quite a bit.


----------



## Kimir

It depends on the memory chip you have, yours are hynix right?
On samsung I use tWR 10

With such an amazing cpu, you should get amazing ram IMO, like TZ 3200c14


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> It depends on the memory chip you have, yours are hynix right?
> On samsung I use tWR 10
> 
> 
> With such an amazing cpu, you should get amazing ram IMO, like TZ 3200c14


Samsung G.Skill 8x4GB 3000.

Yeah, I'm going to look into 32GB Trident Z 3200 c14.


----------



## Kimir

Get 64GB, filling the 8 slots is wicked fast (8x8 is faster than 4x8 at same timing and voltage







)


----------



## ttg35fort

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Get 64GB, filling the 8 slots is wicked fast (8x8 is faster than 4x8 at same timing and voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


How is this the case if the MB has a quad channel memory controller? It would be interesting to see some benchmarks that compare these options. I suppose if you were running an application that would actually cause memory usage to go beyond 32 MB, but I don't think most users run such applications. Perhaps if they are doing complex video rendering or some really high end modelling. But even 32 GB is overkill for most people, at least with today's games and the software most people use. Years ago, with a two channel memory controller, I had 2 x 4GB, then later added another 2 x 4GB (same memory model). I did not see any difference at all in benchmarks I ran, in gaming, or in day to day use (that was before games started using more than 8 GB or RAM). Maybe something that I am not aware of has changed with newer memory controllers. Nonetheless, absent benchmarks showing the difference, I am a little skeptical.


----------



## Kimir

Aida64 memory bandwidth shows it quite nicely. In any other application, you won't see a difference, like you won't see a difference from running cas 14 to cas 13 in anything else but benchmark(s).
And it has nothing to do with memory controller but more to motherboard topology. Filling the 8 dimms slot on my R5E was showing faster speeds at least.


----------



## ttg35fort

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Aida64 memory bandwidth shows it quite nicely. In any other application, you won't see a difference, like you won't see a difference from running cas 14 to cas 13 in anything else but benchmark(s).
> And it has nothing to do with memory controller but more to motherboard topology. Filling the 8 dimms slot on my R5E was showing faster speeds at least.


What is your memory speed?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Get 64GB, filling the 8 slots is wicked fast (8x8 is faster than 4x8 at same timing and voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


no way I could afford 64GB kit. I long for the old days of 8x4GB kits, but if they had b Trident Z c14 that way.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quick stability run-in with a 5820K I acquired recently. Not the best CPU by any standards but there we go!


----------



## deegzor

Need help getting my G.Skill Trident Z F4-3200C16D-16GTZB kit stable @3200mhz. My system specs are on rig (ressi penkki).

I'm able to post with xmp settings and using cpu strap 100 (this should work with 3200mhz?) but in HCI memtest i get errors withing minutes

Note that i contacted G.Skill support and they told me that they can guarantee this kit to work on xmp profile only with Broadwell-E processors. Since i'm using Haswell-E 5820k they suggested i try 2800mhz 15-16-16-35 1.2v with these settings i couldn't even post (tried with cpu strap 100 and 125)

What i have tried alredy:

using my stable oc for cpu 4.4/42

using cpu core and cache at stock

upping vccsa from 1.02v until 1.3v

upping vccio from 1.05 until 1.3v

upping dram voltage from 1.35 until 1.45

using XMP profile

manually setting timigs and voltages to match xmp and even looser with higher voltage (1.45v)

I have been able to stabilize this kit @2666mhz 1.35v with slighty tighter timings than xmp for 3200mhz.


----------



## ttg35fort

I have a X-99 Deluxe II. My RAM is G.Skill Trident Z (F4-3400C16Q-32GTZ) - stable at 3200 MHz. Here are my settings:

CPU System Agent Voltage - 1.05 V

DRAM Voltage (CHA, CHB) - 1.32 V

DRAM Voltage (CHC, CHD) - 1.32 V

VCCIO CPU - 1.1 V


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deegzor*
> 
> Need help getting my G.Skill Trident Z F4-3200C16D-16GTZB kit stable @3200mhz. My system specs are on rig (ressi penkki).
> 
> I'm able to post with xmp settings and using cpu strap 100 (this should work with 3200mhz?) but in HCI memtest i get errors withing minutes
> 
> Note that i contacted G.Skill support and they told me that they can guarantee this kit to work on xmp profile only with Broadwell-E processors. Since i'm using Haswell-E 5820k they suggested i try 2800mhz 15-16-16-35 1.2v with these settings i couldn't even post (tried with cpu strap 100 and 125)
> 
> What i have tried alredy:
> 
> using my stable oc for cpu 4.4/42
> 
> using cpu core and cache at stock
> 
> upping vccsa from 1.02v until 1.3v
> 
> upping vccio from 1.05 until 1.3v
> 
> upping dram voltage from 1.35 until 1.45
> 
> using XMP profile
> 
> manually setting timigs and voltages to match xmp and even looser with higher voltage (1.45v)
> 
> I have been able to stabilize this kit @2666mhz 1.35v with slighty tighter timings than xmp for 3200mhz.


All I can say is your CPU must have a really poor memory controller. Some CPU's have that trouble, the IMC I think it calls can be really good, middling or really poor. I think yours is really poor.









And I don't think you can RMA a CPU because it won't work with XMP right out of the box.


----------



## deegzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> All I can say is your CPU must have a really poor memory controller. Some CPU's have that trouble, the IMC I think it calls can be really good, middling or really poor. I think yours is really poor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't think you can RMA a CPU because it won't work with XMP right out of the box.


alright, thanks for input. What i CAN do though is try to overclock this sample to 6ghz 2.0v and fry it, then fill up intel tuning plan and get a replacement


----------



## KedarWolf

i7 [email protected]/4.4 -- CPU Adaptive 1.260v Additional Voltage -- Cache Offset .353/1.215v -- SA Offset .333/1.12v -- CPU Input 1.93v -- LLC 5
32GB (8x4GB) G.Skill 3000 RAM At 3200Mhz C16-16-17-34-1T 1.38v HCI MemTest 1400%


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Get 64GB, filling the 8 slots is wicked fast (8x8 is faster than 4x8 at same timing and voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Can't afford 64GB, but this is the 32GB kit I want, right? Only c14 3200 kit I can get in Canada.









F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ Never mind, Z170 kit.









http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232207

No, this kit I mean. X99 c14 4x8GB.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232348&cm_re=F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW-_-20-232-348-_-Product

And didn't I see someone say before the C15 4x8GB kit gets better timings than the c14?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deegzor*
> 
> alright, thanks for input. What i CAN do though is try to overclock this sample to 6ghz 2.0v and fry it, then fill up intel tuning plan and get a replacement


Try setting VCCSA to 1.15 and DRAM to 1.4.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy -- 5960X @ 4.6 -- 32GB 3200c14 @ 3200c13(tight) w/ 1.425V VSA 1.000V --- HCI 1000%


Jpmboy, can you post a screenshot of your CPU, System Agent, and memory voltages etc. and a MemTweakIt?









I have a 4x8GB c14 3200 kit on the way, would be a good guide I think.









Edit: The BIOS main page with voltages is all I need, would like to see all your main volts.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy, can you post a screenshot of your CPU, System Agent, and memory voltages etc. and a MemTweakIt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 4x8GB c14 3200 kit on the way, would be a good guide I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: The BIOS main page with voltages is all I need, would like to see all your main volts.


Same kit used here on this 5820K.


http://cdn.overclock.net/5/54/54c078d2_5830k.jpeg

VCCSA, timings and memory voltages/mileage vary from CPU to CPU so you're best to do some of the groundwork yourself.


----------



## deegzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Try setting VCCSA to 1.15 and DRAM to 1.4.


I have tried all values to vccsa from 0.9v to 1.3v with 0.010v increasements and also dram from 1.35 to 1.45









It just seems that this kit has problems running with my specific mobo cpu combination, i found that other people have also been succesfull running this kit at 2666mhz.
Is there any downside to using 2666mhz with tight timings instead of 3200mhz loose xmp timings? I got pretty much equal results in aida64 cache/ram bench.

This is what im working on now:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9fikp2bhut1dqu/ddr4_2666_hci.JPG?dl=0


----------



## deegzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ttg35fort*
> 
> I have a X-99 Deluxe II. My RAM is G.Skill Trident Z (F4-3400C16Q-32GTZ) - stable at 3200 MHz. Here are my settings:
> 
> CPU System Agent Voltage - 1.05 V
> 
> DRAM Voltage (CHA, CHB) - 1.32 V
> 
> DRAM Voltage (CHC, CHD) - 1.32 V
> 
> VCCIO CPU - 1.1 V


With what cpu are you running this?


----------



## ttg35fort

i7 6800k


----------



## deegzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ttg35fort*
> 
> i7 6800k


No wonder then since the kit is on qvl list for Bw-E processors with this mb but not for Hw-E


----------



## slayer6288

I keep getting intermittently running hci memtest DRIVER_CORRUPTED_EXPOOL Blue Screen Error (0x000000C5). I have my system at full stock and passed aida64 cache 4.5 hours and 12 hours of x264 stress test. I also passed googlestressapp for 2 hours (2 straight 1 hour runs). For some reason in realbench or hci memtest I get this bluescreen. is my ram faulty possibly or?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> I keep getting intermittently running hci memtest DRIVER_CORRUPTED_EXPOOL Blue Screen Error (0x000000C5). I have my system at full stock and passed aida64 cache 4.5 hours and 12 hours of x264 stress test. I also passed googlestressapp for 2 hours (2 straight 1 hour runs). For some reason in realbench or hci memtest I get this bluescreen. is my ram faulty possibly or?


If you are receiving the error with the system at defaults - including memory, close any software that is polling system hardware. For instance AIDA, MSI Afterburner.


----------



## slayer6288

what if no polling software is running just real bench by itself or just hci memtest and task manager open to see how much ram I am using during the test.


----------



## slayer6288

I have had some weird things happen during windows as well such as copying a unrar'd file into my WoW addons folder and then windows froze that I was copying from. Not the computer but the window itself and I was able to just open a new one and copy the files but in event viewer it said that it stopped responding with explorer.exe and whenever I have had weird issues like this is was always bad ram. What do you think?

Specs:

5930k
Rampage v Extreme
32gb 2666mhx hyperx 13-14-14-15 ram
980ti
1200w platt evga power supply


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> I have had some weird things happen during windows as well such as copying a unrar'd file into my WoW addons folder and then windows froze that I was copying from. Not the computer but the window itself and I was able to just open a new one and copy the files but in event viewer it said that it stopped responding with explorer.exe and whenever I have had weird issues like this is was always bad ram. What do you think?
> 
> Specs:
> 
> 5930k
> Rampage v Extreme
> 32gb 2666mhx hyperx 13-14-14-15 ram
> 980ti
> 1200w platt evga power supply


Sounds like instability.


----------



## slayer6288

given that I can pass x264 12 hours, aida cache 4.5 hours x265 overkill x12 at 4k 5 times in a row but I get that blue screen in realbench or hci memtest what would say is the cause bad ram ?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> what if no polling software is running just real bench by itself or just hci memtest and task manager open to see how much ram I am using during the test.


HCI MemTest also tests cache so it may be cache instability.


----------



## slayer6288

cache is at stock and passed 4.5 hours of aida64 cache only


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> given that I can pass x264 12 hours, aida cache 4.5 hours x265 overkill x12 at 4k 5 times in a row but I get that blue screen in realbench or hci memtest what would say is the cause bad ram ?


Can you confirm you are running the memory at 2133.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> cache is at stock and passed 4.5 hours of aida64 cache only


If your overclock is unstable some benchmarks and stress tests will pass but others will fail. If it's a hardware issue then it'll also happen at BIOS defaults.









I never saw, did you say you are testing at BIOS defaults?


----------



## slayer6288

Yeah 2133 for the ram what i dont get is in another thread someone said that nvidia geforce drivers have been known to cause my issue? I couldnt find anything on google about it but now im 700% in on hci memtest and no driver corrupted expool bsod I am so confused


----------



## slayer6288

has anyone ever heard of nvidia drivers causing issues with hci memtest?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> has anyone ever heard of nvidia drivers causing issues with hci memtest?


No, but memory errors can certainly present themselves as/prompt driver errors/BSOD.


----------



## Kimir

Display driver crashing during HCI, yes.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Display driver crashing during HCI, yes.


^^This. Due to unstable ram


----------



## slayer6288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Display driver crashing during HCI, yes.


As a result of faulty ram or is it a common false positive? I uninstalled nvidia drivers and no more driver corrupted expool at 800% hci memtest and never had an issue in google stress app as no nvidia drivers were ever installed in linux. Is it an nvidia drivers issue or is my ram bad and i should rma? this is all at stock 2133


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice!


Thanks.. this is the caseLabs build... runs pretty quick (and dead silent)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Get 64GB, filling the 8 slots is wicked fast (8x8 is faster than 4x8 at same timing and voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


^^ This!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy, can you post a screenshot of your CPU, System Agent, and memory voltages etc. and a MemTweakIt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 4x8GB c14 3200 kit on the way, would be a good guide I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: The BIOS main page with voltages is all I need, would like to see all your main volts.


All voltages are in the SS posted, but I can drop a bios screenie shortly.. just back from Salmon fishing up in Canada!









Is this helpful? (4K image)


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.. this is the caseLabs build... runs pretty quick (and dead silent)
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Get 64GB, filling the 8 slots is wicked fast (8x8 is faster than 4x8 at same timing and voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^^ This!
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy, can you post a screenshot of your CPU, System Agent, and memory voltages etc. and a MemTweakIt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 4x8GB c14 3200 kit on the way, would be a good guide I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: The BIOS main page with voltages is all I need, would like to see all your main volts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All voltages are in the SS posted, but I can drop a bios screenie shortly.. just back from Salmon fishing up in Canada!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this helpful? (4K image)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm from Canada, and I'm sorry for being sorry, eh..


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Sorry, I'm from Canada, and I'm sorry for being sorry, eh..


lol... some of the best fly fishing ITW!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Sorry, I'm from Canada, and I'm sorry for being sorry, eh..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol... some of the best fly fishing ITW!
Click to expand...

Jpmboy, my 32GB C14 3200 Ripjaws 5 kit is coming in the mail tomorrow!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> As a result of faulty ram or is it a common false positive? I uninstalled nvidia drivers and no more driver corrupted expool at 800% hci memtest and never had an issue in google stress app as no nvidia drivers were ever installed in linux. Is it an nvidia drivers issue or is my ram bad and i should rma? this is all at stock 2133


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Display driver crashing during HCI, yes.


If the system is passing GSAT at stock and failing HCI at default settings, I doubt replacing the memory will fix your issue. Display drivers are some of the most complex and difficult to write, so they are also the most likely to fall over when the memory bus is being pushed with something as brutal as HCI. I'm not entirely convinced this is always the case, though. In the sense that it may not indicate there is a problem with any of the components, or an overclock. I've been able to replicate this a few times in the past with nothing overclocked.

I've been trying to get some insight from a couple of the guys at NVIDIA but have been tied up recently so haven't had much time for these things. Will see if I can get anything from them.


----------



## slayer6288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If the system is passing GSAT at stock and failing HCI at default settings, I doubt replacing the memory will fix your issue. Display drivers are some of the most complex and difficult to write, so they are also the most likely to fall over when the memory bus is being pushed with something as brutal as HCI. I'm not entirely convinced this is always the case, though. In the sense that it may not indicate there is a problem with any of the components, or an overclock. I've been able to replicate this a few times in the past with nothing overclocked.
> 
> I've been trying to get some insight from a couple of the guys at NVIDIA but have been tied up recently so haven't had much time for these things. Will see if I can get anything from them.


Silent you are way too helpful ty so much. So an update and makes me even more confused. I passed HCI memtest at 1000% with the nvidia drivers uninstalled in windows 10 at both 2666mhz previously stable settings and stock. At 2666mhz and stock in hci i sometimes get the driver corrupted expool bsod with the nvidia drivers installed. Is this a result of bad memory or just shotty nvidia drivers? I am able to pass x265 overkill non stop no bsod x264 12 hours aida 64 cache 6+ hours stock and at 4.2ghz on cache which was my previously stable cache before this all started and x264 and x265 with my 5930k at the previously stable 4.5ghz and at stock also. IDK what to do anymore and it is driving me crazy. Is there a way to run realbench without the nvidia drivers and use the stock windows display drivers? I need opencl.dll though which is an issue also ARGGGGGGH damn pcs man


----------



## Kimir

Perhaps you should try to tweak VSA voltage a little, since you have the cache stress test done in Aida64 and the memory one done on GSAT all fine on themselves, it could be the interaction between the two, hence system agent.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> Silent you are way too helpful ty so much. So an update and makes me even more confused. I passed HCI memtest at 1000% with the nvidia drivers uninstalled in windows 10 at both 2666mhz previously stable settings and stock. At 2666mhz and stock in hci i sometimes get the driver corrupted expool bsod with the nvidia drivers installed. Is this a result of bad memory or just shotty nvidia drivers? I am able to pass x265 overkill non stop no bsod x264 12 hours aida 64 cache 6+ hours stock and at 4.2ghz on cache which was my previously stable cache before this all started and x264 and x265 with my 5930k at the previously stable 4.5ghz and at stock also. IDK what to do anymore and it is driving me crazy. Is there a way to run realbench without the nvidia drivers and use the stock windows display drivers? I need opencl.dll though which is an issue also ARGGGGGGH damn pcs man


That's not necessarily indicative either way which is why it's difficult to say, and much easier to wave it off as instability. As for Realbench, there shouldn't be an issue here. I'm not sure if the issue with Maxwell cards was ever resolved on halting Luxmark.

If you're really stuck with it, I'd consider taking it to a system integrator to see if they can resolve it for you. Failing that if the system is stable otherwise use it for it's intended purpose.

Also I wouldn't get your hopes up with me coming back with anything from NV, it's got not a hope in hells chance of being investigated - but I might be able to get a form of explanation as to why it seems to invoke the crashes.


----------



## slayer6288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Perhaps you should try to tweak VSA voltage a little, since you have the cache stress test done in Aida64 and the memory one done on GSAT all fine on themselves, it could be the interaction between the two, hence system agent.


Tried that also. auto VCCSA has .864 for me. I tried .01 increments all the way up to .975 and it made no difference


----------



## Desolutional

VCCIO can also help with a weaker IMC, sometimes just modifying VCCSA won't cut it. I'd say the safe limit was 1.20V for HW-E with the overclocking warranty, but probably 1.15V for most CPUs (always get the warranty when OCing beyond just Vcore, never know when the CPU will go bang). Mine has a terrible IMC so...









Not sure about the limits for BW-E, but the ASUS mobo gives me red for VCCIO as soon as I pass 1.2125V, so I just use 1.20V as the limit. Stock is 1.05V.


----------



## slayer6288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> VCCIO can also help with a weaker IMC, sometimes just modifying VCCSA won't cut it. I'd say the safe limit was 1.20V for HW-E with the overclocking warranty, but probably 1.15V for most CPUs (always get the warranty when OCing beyond just Vcore, never know when the CPU will go bang). Mine has a terrible IMC so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure about the limits for BW-E, but the ASUS mobo gives me red for VCCIO as soon as I pass 1.2125V, so I just use 1.20V as the limit. Stock is 1.05V.


which vccio cpu or pch or both?


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> which vccio cpu or pch or both?


Vccio CPU 1.05v


----------



## KedarWolf

New RAM!!

KedarWolf -- Sabertooth X99 motherboard -- Titan X (not Pascal) -- 1.2TB Intel 750 PCI-E SSD
i7 [email protected]/4.4 -- CPU Adaptive 1.260v Additional Voltage -- Cache Offset .353/1.222v -- SA Offset .323/1.112v -- CPU Input 1.91v -- LLC 5
32GB (4x8GB) G.Skill 3200 CL14 RAM At 3200Mhz C13-13-13-28-1T 1.39v -- StressAppTest 2 Hours


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.. this is the caseLabs build... runs pretty quick (and dead silent)
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Get 64GB, filling the 8 slots is wicked fast (8x8 is faster than 4x8 at same timing and voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^^ This!
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy, can you post a screenshot of your CPU, System Agent, and memory voltages etc. and a MemTweakIt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 4x8GB c14 3200 kit on the way, would be a good guide I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: The BIOS main page with voltages is all I need, would like to see all your main volts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All voltages are in the SS posted, but I can drop a bios screenie shortly.. just back from Salmon fishing up in Canada!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this helpful? (4K image)
Click to expand...

Jpmboy, do you have BIOS screenshots of related settings on your G.Skill CL14 3200 at 12-12-12-26 1T?

I think you did at one point and I need it for benching. Mine stable at 13-13-13-28 1T but having trouble getting timings lower.


----------



## Kimir

3200c12? Yeah you can do that easy, set the voltage to 1.65-1.8v and it should do it for benching.








Btw, is that a typo I see in VSA 1.28v?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> 3200c12? Yeah you can do that easy, set the voltage to 1.65-1.8v and it should do it for benching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, is that a typo I see in VSA 1.28v?


Yeah, that was supposed to be 1.128v.









Got the voltages down a lot one hour StressAppTest stable, updated the post.









Edit: I can really try like 1.65v on the Eventual RAM voltage I mean on a 5960x with this RAM safely?

Second edit.: I figured you were joking, but I bumped RAM voltage up to 1.49 for an AIDA64 bench, got this.


----------



## Kimir

I don't know about safety, but that's what I did there.
Damn, you've got a really good cpu, both core and cache and the IMC as well.


----------



## MR-e

^ Yep definitely good on that CPU! Mine is okay on Core, Good on Cache and total Dud on IMC









Can't do C13-13-13 with relaxed secondary/tertiary with generous voltage either


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Yeah, that was supposed to be 1.128v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got the voltages down a lot one hour StressAppTest stable, updated the post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I can really try like 1.65v on the Eventual RAM voltage I mean on a 5960x with this RAM safely?
> 
> Second edit.: I figured you were joking, but I bumped RAM voltage up to 1.49 for an AIDA64 bench, got this.


shouldn;t need 1.6V... 1.45-1.5V as you found out. with timings that tight, watch for memory corruption and or bad_Pool errors.








Sorry - I can;t find bios pics for c12.. that was over a year ago (and a generation ago too.







)


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Yeah, that was supposed to be 1.128v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got the voltages down a lot one hour StressAppTest stable, updated the post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I can really try like 1.65v on the Eventual RAM voltage I mean on a 5960x with this RAM safely?
> 
> Second edit.: I figured you were joking, but I bumped RAM voltage up to 1.49 for an AIDA64 bench, got this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shouldn;t need 1.6V... 1.45-1.5V as you found out. with timings that tight, watch for memory corruption and or bad_Pool errors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry - I can;t find bios pics for c12.. that was over a year ago (and a generation ago too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
Click to expand...

I'm going to run 13-13-13- 28 1T for everyday use. But 12-12-12-26 1T at 1.49V ran AIDA64 benchmark just fine.









I probably could get that stable at the CL12 but I find even with my Predator 360 and a GPU in the loop stress testing the temps get worse more RAM voltage I use.









Edit: CL11 anyone?









I'm really really sure can't do, even my Corsair kit has trouble with 11-12-12-25 1T at 2666MHZ.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I'm going to run 13-13-13- 28 1T for everyday use. But 12-12-12-26 1T at 1.49V ran AIDA64 benchmark just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I probably could get that stable at the CL12 but I find even with my Predator 360 and a GPU in the loop stress testing the temps get worse more RAM voltage I use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: CL11 anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really really sure can't do, even my Corsair kit has trouble with 11-12-12-25 1T at 2666MHZ.


thats sensational! . i so wish i had gone gskill over my corsair

anyone got any idea what the max volts air cooled in a well vented case should be for me?

corsair Vengeance LED ddr4 3200 2x8gb kit


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I'm going to run 13-13-13- 28 1T for everyday use. But 12-12-12-26 1T at 1.49V ran AIDA64 benchmark just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I probably could get that stable at the CL12 but I find even with my Predator 360 and a GPU in the loop stress testing the temps get worse more RAM voltage I use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: CL11 anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really really sure can't do, even my Corsair kit has trouble with 11-12-12-25 1T at 2666MHZ.


this is my ripjaw 32GB kit... 12-12-12 is not stable below 1.525V, 12-13-12 is. weird.


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic - i5 6600k @ 4.8Ghz/4.8Ghz - 16GB 4000Mhz 16-16-16-36-1t - 1.5v DRAM -auto - HCI 750%


----------



## MattBaneLM

forgot about Memtweakit so i downloaded and ran it....

Thoughts?


----------



## TK421

When the 6700K first launched it was gouged to around 400+ USD, it wasn't (economically) available 2-3 months down the road till it was around 360usd-ish.

How long do you think we need to wait until the 7700K is economically viable to buy?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> When the 6700K first launched it was gouged to around 400+ USD, it wasn't (economically) available 2-3 months down the road till it was around 360usd-ish.
> 
> How long do you think we need to wait until the 7700K is economically viable to buy?


?? I never paid more than retail for the 6700K - and most cpus sell at less than MSRP at places like microcenter.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ?? I never paid more than retail for the 6700K - and most cpus sell at less than MSRP at places like microcenter.


6950x prices climbed to almost £1,700 here.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ?? I never paid more than retail for the 6700K - and most cpus sell at less than MSRP at places like microcenter.


Mc has tax though


----------



## TK421

How do you guys bin 6700K for low voltage overclock?

I am planning to buy 5-6 units and keeping the one that is a "golden sample"?


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 6950x prices climbed to almost £1,700 here.


I'd buy a cheap sports car for that money just to destroy it on the track. Seems like an almost better use of that £££


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 6950x prices climbed to almost £1,700 here.


ouch! Would have been cheaper to Fly to NYC buy one for $1499 and fly back.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> How do you guys bin 6700K for low voltage overclock?
> 
> I am planning to buy 5-6 units and keeping the one that is a "golden sample"?


It's a CPU... not the girl you marry.









($299 at MC here... depending on the State, tax is what, 5% (Delaware is 0%







)


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ouch! Would have been cheaper to Fly to NYC buy one for $1499 and fly back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a CPU... not the girl you marry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ($299 at MC here... depending on the State, tax is what, 5% (Delaware is 0%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


mine is 8.875%

but I need one specifically for low voltage high overclocks, how do you test this?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ouch! *Would have been cheaper to Fly to NYC buy one for $1499 and fly back.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a CPU... not the girl you marry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ($299 at MC here... depending on the State, tax is what, 5% (Delaware is 0%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Or get it from eBay ...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> I'd buy a cheap sports car for that money just to destroy it on the track. Seems like an almost better use of that £££


Hence why I sold it for a lesser model to restore this


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ouch! Would have been cheaper to Fly to NYC buy one for $1499 and fly back.


Wouldn't they add import tax in UK?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Or get it from eBay ...


or Silicon Lottery!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Wouldn't they add import tax in UK?


I always ship as a defective part... "Defective IMC" works every time.


----------



## lilchronic

So when i ran HCI memtest each instance was on a totally different coverage point 500% -800%. wondering what usually causes that?
1.37vdram


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> So when i ran HCI memtest each instance was on a totally different coverage point 500% -800%. wondering what usually causes that?


Using too much memory, stuff running in the background, or leaving one of the instances focused (at default settings the focused window gets higher priority). I generally make sure I leave enough free memory and set all instances to lowest priority.

It can also help to run more than one instance per core...HCI is not especially demanding on it's own and even without HT running two instances per core will over result in a higher load.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Using too much memory, stuff running in the background, or leaving one of the instances focused (at default settings the focused window gets higher priority). I generally make sure I leave enough free memory and set all instances to lowest priority.
> 
> It can also help to run more than one instance per core...HCI is not especially demanding on it's own and even without HT running two instances per core will over result in a higher load.


yeah i was thinking that but never really checked how much ram it was actually using and im just siting here typing using 4GB!

Think i may have used to much, I just closed all the instances not even thinking of checking the ram usage this morning.









dam windows 7


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> or Silicon Lottery!
> I always ship as a defective part... "Defective IMC" works every time.


what is imc?


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> what is imc?


Integrated memory controller


----------



## slayer6288

So my Driver Corrupted Expool BSOD error I was getting in windows 10 1607 version does not happen on windows 8.1. Passed 16 hours of realbench stress testing and 1200% hci memtest with same bios settings. With windows 10 I get a driver corrupted expool error right away in real bench and a little bit into hci memtest. If i uninstall nvidia drivers i can pass hci memtest no problem but I cant run real bench without nvidia drivers (opencl.dll missing) with nvidia drivers uninstalled. So I am guessing this is a nvidia driver issue with windows 10 maybe wddm 2.1 i wonder is th2 build has this issue and here this whole time I thought my system wasnt stable and my ram was bad.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> So my Driver Corrupted Expool BSOD error I was getting in windows 10 1607 version does not happen on windows 8.1. Passed 16 hours of realbench stress testing and 1200% hci memtest with same bios settings. With windows 10 I get a driver corrupted expool error right away in real bench and a little bit into hci memtest. If i uninstall nvidia drivers i can pass hci memtest no problem but I cant run real bench without nvidia drivers (opencl.dll missing) with nvidia drivers uninstalled. So I am guessing this is a nvidia driver issue with windows 10 maybe wddm 2.1 i wonder is th2 build has this issue and here this whole time I thought my system wasnt stable and my ram was bad.


In my opinion, whether this is what you are experiencing or not, there is an issue with how an element of the NV driver polls certain Windows 10 builds. If the system is not stable, this is only going to make the issue more prominent, though.

If the only time this driver instability is occurring is when running HCI, and not during general use not affecting your daily workloads, then I would consider just letting it be and using the machine if data integrity is non critical.


----------



## slayer6288

If the system was unstable why would Windows 8.1 pass 16 hours of realbench and 1500% hci memtest and 8 hours of aida cache where I cant do that with nvidia drivers installed in windows 10? At that point it sounds software wise either windows 10 or how the nvidia drivers work in windows 10 instead of hardware no? Wouldnt I get the same issue in windows 8.1 if the machine was unstable?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> If the system was unstable why would Windows 8.1 pass 16 hours of realbench and 1500% hci memtest and 8 hours of aida cache where I cant do that with nvidia drivers installed in windows 10? At that point it sounds software wise either windows 10 or how the nvidia drivers work in windows 10 instead of hardware no? Wouldnt I get the same issue in windows 8.1 if the machine was unstable?


I'd imagine you would, yes. But it's also possible that Windows 10 is exposing the instability where 8.1 does not. Like I say, I think there is an issue somewhere - but it's not something that is likely to get resolved. Nvidia need enough reproducible instances of a fault for it to be worth investigating, which this does not, at all. You've got more chance of winning the lottery. Hence - I'd suggest not reading too much into it. The system appears to be stable otherwise by what you're saying.


----------



## slayer6288

I got a new kit of ram over the weekend and it does the same thing in windows 10. How can it be possible that 2 kits of ram one 2666 and one 2133 both do the same thing if something was wrong with the system at stock yet 8.1 is fine?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> I got a new kit of ram over the weekend and it does the same thing in windows 10. How can it be possible that 2 kits of ram one 2666 and one 2133 both do the same thing if something was wrong with the system at stock yet 8.1 is fine?


Because I'm not saying the memory is faulty. The reasons for you having to ask is why you should probably stop persisting with it as I've suggested.


----------



## slayer6288

If I understand you correctly the instability you referred to wasn't with my PC but the nvidia drivers and how they interact with windows 10 1607?


----------



## thebski

Well I'm beginning the memory OC adventure on some new hardware. It is the 6900K rig in my sig but parts of note are

Intel Core i7-6900K
Asus Rampage V Edition 10
Corsair Dominator Platinum Blackout SE 32 GB 3200 14-16-16-36 2T

So far I have passed the following:

1 hour Realbench stress test with 4.3 CPU OC only
1 hour stressapptest with 4.3 CPU OC and XMP settings, 1.15 VCCSA, 1.10 VCCIO, 1.35 VDimm





Now I'm going to run a Realbench stress test with the XMP settings enabled as well as the CPU OC and see if it passes. After that I'm going to see what these Platinum SE sticks will do with timings. I don't plan on getting too much further than 3200 on BW-E, but I'd like to get some pretty tight timings. The sticks are supposed to be selected with headroom up to 3600 MHz, so hopefully I can turn that in to timings.

What would be the best timings to go after first? I've never messed with timings beyond setting an XMP profile. I figured my first step would be to get 1T command rate.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Well I'm beginning the memory OC adventure on some new hardware. It is the 6900K rig in my sig but parts of note are
> 
> Intel Core i7-6900K
> Asus Rampage V Edition 10
> Corsair Dominator Platinum Blackout SE 32 GB 3200 C14
> 
> So far I have passed the following:
> 
> 1 hour Realbench stress test with 4.3 CPU OC only
> 1 hour stressapptest with 4.3 CPU OC and XMP settings, 1.15 VCCSA, 1.10 VCCIO, 1.35 VDimm
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm going to run a Realbench stress test with the XMP settings enabled as well as the CPU OC and see if it passes. After that I'm going to see what these Platinum SE sticks will do with timings. I don't plan on getting too much further than 3200 on BW-E, but I'd like to get some pretty tight timings. The sticks are supposed to be selected with headroom up to 3600 MHz, so hopefully I can turn that in to timings.
> 
> What would be the best timings to go after first? I've never messed with timings beyond setting an XMP profile. I figured my first step would be to get 1T command rate.


start with changing 2T to 1T. YOu casn use the secondary timings from one of the built in presets... but you need to know the IC manuf of the ram kit. open AID64 and look here:

HYnix, Samsung, MIcron?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> start with changing 2T to 1T. YOu casn use the secondary timings from one of the built in presets... but you need to know the IC manuf of the ram kit. open AID64 and look here:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HYnix, Samsung, MIcron?


They are Samsung memory modules. Is that good or bad?

Edit: You say I can use the secondary timings from one of the presets. The presets appear to be LN2 or something. I believe I have a single sided 4x8 GB Samsung kit, but the only two choices are 1.75V and 1.8V. You mean just copy the secondary timings of those profiles and attempt them for 24/7 stability? So far I have passed 2 hours of Realbench with CPU and XMP OC and am now 40 minutes into stressapptest with XMP plus 1T timings. I'm not sure what to go after next.

Edit 2: I've passed 14-14-14-31 1T timings with one our of GSAP. I don't know what to do from here. Do I just keep lowering main timings until I find instability with GSAP? Also the tRAS timing doesn't make any sense to me. I've seen people say it has to be at least the sum of CAS, tRAS, and tRTP. With XMP settings, those were 14, 16, and 12, equaling 42, yet tRAS was set at 36. Now I'm testing at 31. I am confused. I guess I mainly seek a methodology to overclocking memory. At this point I am just randomly poking in main timings, and so far it seems to be working. However, I'm sure that will end soon, and I'm not sure where to turn.


----------



## Kimir

Try with 14-14-14 and those secondary timings, you might need to add some voltage (1.38v is what I need for what's in the screen, primary timing included)
Ignore the tRFC, put 320 instead and leave tREFI on auto to begin with.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> They are Samsung memory modules. Is that good or bad?
> 
> Edit: You say I can use the secondary timings from one of the presets. The presets appear to be LN2 or something. I believe I have a single sided 4x8 GB Samsung kit, but the only two choices are 1.75V and 1.8V. You mean just copy the secondary timings of those profiles and attempt them for 24/7 stability? So far I have passed 2 hours of Realbench with CPU and XMP OC and am now 40 minutes into stressapptest with XMP plus 1T timings. I'm not sure what to go after next.
> 
> Edit 2: I've passed 14-14-14-31 1T timings with one our of GSAP. I don't know what to do from here. Do I just keep lowering main timings until I find instability with GSAP? Also the tRAS timing doesn't make any sense to me. I've seen people say it has to be at least the sum of CAS, tRAS, and tRTP. With XMP settings, those were 14, 16, and 12, equaling 42, yet tRAS was set at 36. Now I'm testing at 31. I am confused. I guess I mainly seek a methodology to overclocking memory. At this point I am just randomly poking in main timings, and so far it seems to be working. However, I'm sure that will end soon, and I'm not sure where to turn.


you can load the 4x8 preset to use the secondary timings only... change the primaries to where you want them to be, and set the voltage you want. Tight secondaries will require higher than stock voltage.


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.45v---SA 1.25v---HCI 1000%
Tight


lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---4000Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.5v---SA 1.3v---HCI 1000%
loose


lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---3733Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.4v---SA 1.25v---HCI 800%
error @ 800%
lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---3600Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.35v---SA 1.2v---HCI 950%
error around 950%


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayer6288*
> 
> If I understand you correctly the instability you referred to wasn't with my PC but the nvidia drivers and how they interact with windows 10 1607?


I had problems with Realbench crashing in Windows 10 as well when I knew the system was stable. My problem turned out to be background software. I closed Afterburner, CPU-Z and AIDA64 and with only Realbench and Corsair Link running it passes just fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you can load the 4x8 preset to use the secondary timings only... change the primaries to where you want them to be, and set the voltage you want. Tight secondaries will require higher than stock voltage.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Try with 14-14-14 and those secondary timings, you might need to add some voltage (1.38v is what I need for what's in the screen, primary timing included)
> Ignore the tRFC, put 320 instead and leave tREFI on auto to begin with.


Ok thanks guys. I briefly copied all secondary timings from the 1.75V profile last night and was unable to post. Will I mainly need to worry about VDimm when concerning timing changes or do CPU/IMC voltages come into play as well? I will begin playing with these secondaries this morning and see what happens.

Edit:

These are the preset ones in the motherboard for the 1.8V 3400 Samsung preset



I used all of these except 320 for tRFC and Auto for tREFI and I am unable to post up to 1.4 VDimm. I get stuck on a bd code. This all being with 14-14-14-31-1T.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I had problems with Realbench crashing in Windows 10 as well when I knew the system was stable. My problem turned out to be background software. I closed Afterburner, CPU-Z and AIDA64 and with only Realbench and Corsair Link running it passes just fine.
> 
> Ok thanks guys. I briefly copied all secondary timings from the 1.75V profile last night and was unable to post. *Will I mainly need to worry about VDimm when concerning timing changes or do CPU/IMC* voltages come into play as well? I will begin playing with these secondaries this morning and see what happens.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> These are the preset ones in the motherboard for the 1.8V 3400 Samsung preset
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used all of these except 320 for tRFC and Auto for tREFI and I am unable to post up to 1.4 VDimm. I get stuck on a bd code. This all being with 14-14-14-31-1T.


focus on VDIMM and VSA. VDIMM may need to be in the 1.4-1.45V range depending on the kit and frewuwncy you set with the tight timings.

or... follow the example @Kimir posted!


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> focus on VDIMM and VSA. VDIMM may need to be in the 1.4-1.45V range depending on the kit and frewuwncy you set with the tight timings.
> 
> or... follow the example @Kimir posted!


Thanks. I used some of his settings and some from the presets and am able to boot with about half the secondaries set at these settings



I will have to work on the rest to see what's causing such trouble.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Thanks. I used some of his settings and some from the presets and am able to boot with about half the secondaries set at these settings
> 
> 
> 
> I will have to work on the rest to see what's causing such trouble.


DL a copy of the AsRock timing configurator or ASUS memtweakit... makes it easy to post up the advanced timings so guys here can help.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> DL a copy of the AsRock timing configurator or ASUS memtweakit... makes it easy to post up the advanced timings so guys here can help.


I actually have mem tweakit, but I'm usually just loading into Linux for stressapptest. I'll start booting into Windows and posting timings shots.

Edit: Here's a MemTweakIt shot of settings that just passed 20 minutes of GSAP. tRFC, tREFI, tWR, tFAW, and tCKE were all left on Auto, so one or some of them were causing quite a bit of instability when trying to boot before.


----------



## netok

4000C12


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I actually have mem tweakit, but I'm usually just loading into Linux for stressapptest. I'll start booting into Windows and posting timings shots.
> 
> Edit: Here's a MemTweakIt shot of settings that just passed 20 minutes of GSAP. tRFC, tREFI, tWR, tFAW, and tCKE were all left on Auto, so one or some of them were causing quite a bit of instability when trying to boot before.


with tRRD at 4, tFAW can be as low as 16 before the microcode substitutes in a value to correct the timing error (*and no OS software can report the subed value). If faw at 16 improves performance, it a good value to use.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *netok*
> 
> 4000C12


lol- run HCI memtest and/or GSAT and then post that up.
SPi don;t mean sheet.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> with tRRD at 4, tFAW can be as low as 16 before the microcode substitutes in a value to correct the timing error (*and no OS software can report the subed value). If faw at 16 improves performance, it a good value to use.


I am trying tFAW manually entered at 16 now. This is still at 1.35 VDimm, 1.15 VCCSA, and 1.10 VCCIO, so hopefully I can get quite a bit of it dialed in before messing with the last few settings that really affect voltages. I am just going to be doing 15 to 20 minute stressapptest runs to gauge general stability. Too many settings to thoroughly test each one.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *netok*
> 
> 4000C12


What voltage?

1.93vDRAM

.... i need to get xp up and running. that was on W10


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *netok*
> 
> 4000C12


Should be able to do 4200+?


----------



## MR-e

^Kaby Lake?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MR-e*
> 
> ^Kaby Lake?


maybe


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> maybe


must be. why cover up a 6700K ES.


----------



## thebski

After tinkering for a while I think I've found my stable primary and secondary timings.

6900K at 4.3 GHz
32 GB at 3200 MHz 13-13-13-30-1N 1.39V VDimm
VCore 1.315V
VCCSA 1.2V
VCCIO 1.1V
VDimm 1.39V


Spoiler: Timings and GSAT Screenshots









If you guys could let me know if you see anything out of line that would be awesome. tREFI and tCKE are still on auto. If I need to change them, let me know as well.

Next I want to work on tertiary and IOL timings. I have read that these can actually benefit almost as much as primary timings. However, I don't have any great references. The guide quoted in the OP is from an Asus Guide based on a Z77 board, so I don't know how relevant the value suggestions in that guide are to DDR4. Are there any screenshots on X99 platforms for tight third and IOL timings I can try to go off of? I'm really not sure where to begin, but that's been the theme of this process and it's been fun so far.









I tried getting CAS 12, but even up to 1.25V VCCSA and 1.4V VDimm it would not go. I suspect it would take quite a bit more VDimm to get it to go. Not sure it's worth it, especially in a closed case 24/7 operating environment. Opinions on that would be appreciated as well of course.


----------



## MR-e

VCCSA is on the high end in my opinion, I haven't had a need to go any higher than 1.05v.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> What voltage?
> 
> 1.93vDRAM
> 
> .... i need to get xp up and running. that was on W10


Change RCD and RP to 11.. it's worth about 2 sec.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MR-e*
> 
> VCCSA is on the high end in my opinion, I haven't had a need to go any higher than 1.05v.


When I moved from 14-14-14 to 13-13-13 it would not boot at 1.15V. I moved to 1.2V and it was 1 hr GSAT stable. Is it just unusually high, or too high for 24/7 use? My motherboard defaulted to 1.376V at 3200.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> When I moved from 14-14-14 to 13-13-13 it would not boot at 1.15V. I moved to 1.2V and it was 1 hr GSAT stable. Is it just unusually high, or too high for 24/7 use? My motherboard defaulted to 1.376V at 3200.


what VDIMM did you use for C13? 100mV higher than what worked for C14? Set the VSa back to what worked for c14 and use 100mV more VDIMM instead.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what VDIMM did you use for C13? 100mV higher than what worked for C14? Set the VSa back to what worked for c14 and use 100mV more VDIMM instead.


I left it on what at the time was 1.385V. When I tightened some secondaries I had to move to 1.39V. You're saying go to 1.4V and set VCCSA back to 1.15?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I left it on what at the time was 1.385V. When I tightened some secondaries I had to move to 1.39V. You're saying go to 1.4V and set VCCSA back to 1.15?


yes, but from 1.385, you may need as much as 1.45V VDIMM for c13. Do you really need 1.15V VSA?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yes, but from 1.385, you may need as much as 1.45V VDIMM for c13. Do you really need 1.15V VSA?


I don't know. I'm thinking not. I'm GSAPing 1.05V now on 1.4 VDimm. So far I'm 10 minutes in, but we'll see. I think you were right though. Not quite enough VDimm.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Should be able to do 4200+?


lol - how about 4322. Guess I should tighten this up some. Actually easier to run 4200 on the Impact...








my humble 2 core:

oh - 1.425V


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - how about 4322. Guess I should tighten this up some. Actually easier to run 4200 on the Impact...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my humble 2 core:
> 
> oh - 1.425V


lol nice! Was more pointing out what CPU he was using


----------



## lilchronic

hmm looks like you were asking if it can do 4200Mhz+ on the ram......


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> hmm looks like you were asking if it can do 4200Mhz+ on the ram......


I was? CPU's have memory controllers?

Hello?

Rollseyes


----------



## MR-e

Looks like scone and I picked up on the ES and cropping out certain text on the SS to imply kabylake. Why would anyone be posting ES shots of skylake this late into the game? At least, that's what I figured.


----------



## TK421

Question for RAM stability

I clocked my 16-16-16-39 XMP 2400 1.2v (4x4GB) certified memory to

12-12-12-24 1T 2400 1.39v with System agent voltage +0.290v

I am on 5820K 4.3GHz @1.29v ASUS X99 Deluxe U3.1 latest bios

I ran 12 thread of memtest with 1024 mb each and it passed to 1500% (all threads) with 0 errors.

Can I say that the memory OC is stable now?

How good is the RAM setting that I have clocked in?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Question for RAM stability
> 
> I clocked my 16-16-16-39 XMP 2400 1.2v (4x4GB) certified memory to
> 
> 12-12-12-24 1T 2400 1.39v with System agent voltage +0.290v
> 
> I am on 5820K 4.3GHz @1.29v ASUS X99 Deluxe U3.1 latest bios
> 
> I ran 12 thread of memtest with 1024 mb each and it passed to 1500% (all threads) with 0 errors.
> 
> Can I say that the memory OC is stable now?
> 
> How good is the RAM setting that I have clocked in?


You should be good to go with that much coverage.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MR-e*
> 
> Looks like scone and I picked up on the ES and cropping out certain text on the SS to imply kabylake. Why would anyone be posting ES shots of skylake this late into the game? At least, that's what I figured.


Yep, he's using a 7700K


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You should be good to go with that much coverage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, he's using a 7700K


Ok I left it at home to test up to 3000% and above

I will report in later

How good is my ram timing and speed now?


----------



## thebski

I think I am finally done playing with memory for the moment. I still need to work on IOL values, but I'm not sure I have a lot of room left to work with. They are a bit higher than I'd like them to be. @Silent Scone, I will put this one in for submission.

thebski--i7-6900K @ 4.3 ---32GB -- 3200Mhz-C13-13-13-30-1T----1.4v---SA 1.00v---GSAP 2 Hours, Realbench 2 Hours


Spoiler: Screenshots



2 Hour GSAP Screenshot


Timings


2 Hour Realbench Screenshot


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think I am finally done playing with memory for the moment. I still need to work on IOL values, but I'm not sure I have a lot of room left to work with. They are a bit higher than I'd like them to be. @Silent Scone, I will put this one in for submission.
> 
> thebski--i7-6900K @ 4.3 ---32GB -- 3200Mhz-C13-13-13-30-1T----1.4v---SA 1.00v---GSAP 2 Hours, Realbench 2 Hours
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Screenshots
> 
> 
> 
> 2 Hour GSAP Screenshot
> 
> 
> Timings
> 
> 
> 2 Hour Realbench Screenshot


ehh... having tried asrock timing config 3.0.5 and 4.0.3 I just figured none would work on teh R5E10... well 3.0.6 WORKS! Thanks. +1


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think I am finally done playing with memory for the moment. I still need to work on IOL values, but I'm not sure I have a lot of room left to work with. They are a bit higher than I'd like them to be. @Silent Scone, I will put this one in for submission.
> 
> thebski--i7-6900K @ 4.3 ---32GB -- 3200Mhz-C13-13-13-30-1T----1.4v---SA 1.00v---GSAP 2 Hours, Realbench 2 Hours
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Screenshots
> 
> 
> 
> 2 Hour GSAP Screenshot
> 
> 
> Timings
> 
> 
> 2 Hour Realbench Screenshot


which exact ram kit did you buy? the speed and timing is very good!

also I tried memtest 12-12-12-24 1T 2400 1.39v it pass around 4000% with 0 errors (12 threads 1024mb)


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> which exact ram kit did you buy? the speed and timing is very good!


It is the 32 GB Quad Channel Dominator Platinum SE Blackout Kit - XMP is 3200 C14. Found Here


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ehh... having tried asrock timing config 3.0.5 and 4.0.3 I just figured none would work on teh R5E10... well 3.0.6 WORKS! Thanks. +1


Yep. I just grabbed it off of the X99 OC Forumla page or whatever their OC X99 board is. None of the versions for their Z170 boards worked for me either.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ehh... having tried asrock timing config 3.0.5 and 4.0.3 I just figured none would work on teh R5E10... well 3.0.6 WORKS! Thanks. +1


I found it under OC Formula/3.1 (the plain OC Formula had 4.0.3). How is this guy better than MemTweakIt?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think I am finally done playing with memory for the moment. I still need to work on IOL values, but I'm not sure I have a lot of room left to work with. They are a bit higher than I'd like them to be. @Silent Scone, I will put this one in for submission.
> 
> thebski--i7-6900K @ 4.3 ---32GB -- 3200Mhz-C13-13-13-30-1T----1.4v---SA 1.00v---GSAP 2 Hours, Realbench 2 Hours
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Screenshots
> 
> 
> 
> 2 Hour GSAP Screenshot
> 
> 
> Timings
> 
> 
> 2 Hour Realbench Screenshot


Very nice!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I found it under OC Formula/3.1 (the plain OC Formula had 4.0.3). How is this guy better than MemTweakIt?


it puts all the timings on a single "tab". other than that, and no "Efficiency" Score, it's not really better. Just different.


----------



## Jpmboy

oops


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I was? CPU's have memory controllers?
> 
> Hello?
> 
> Rollseyes


Hello,

Yeah looks like it.

To be honest i was more focused on the ram than the cpu.... this is a ram stability thread so i didnt even notice it was a kabylake cpu till it was brought up,

anyway kabylake means you can do 4200Mhz + ?


----------



## KedarWolf

This in my AIDA benchmark at the settings I run my PC at 24/7 for gaming etc. I messed with RTL's a bit and am StressAppTest stable.









I'm really happy with this result.


----------



## Silent Scone

That's a really nice result. Have to love it when the PC lottery pulls up 5 numbers!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's a really nice result. Have to love it when the PC lottery pulls up 5 numbers!


I'm running two hours of StressAppTest now, I'll post the result when I get home from work.


----------



## djgar

One thing I find interesting in the Aida benchmarks comparing this Haswell-E and and my comparable 24/7 Broadwell-E is that Haswell-E can get a higher read rate (90K vs. 87.5K) with the higher CPU rate (4700/4400 vs. 4600/3800) but the Broadwell-E gets significantly higher write (70K vs. 86K) & copy (84K vs. 89K). Of course we need to take into account our DRAM speeds (3200 vs. 3400).


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.45v---SA 1.25v---HCI 1000%
> Tight
> 
> 
> lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---4000Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.5v---SA 1.3v---HCI 1000%
> loose
> 
> 
> lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---3733Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.4v---SA 1.25v---HCI 800%
> error @ 800%
> lilchronic--i56600K @4.8/4.8---3600Mhz-C15-15-15-35-1T----1.35v---SA 1.2v---HCI 950%
> error around 950%


Running single channel?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Running single channel?


No it say's dual channel on the cpu-z memory tab.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> This in my AIDA benchmark at the settings I run my PC at 24/7 for gaming etc. I messed with RTL's a bit and am StressAppTest stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really happy with this result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


NIce! Voltage? Clock period 13? And why did you set tCKE to 8??


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> This in my AIDA benchmark at the settings I run my PC at 24/7 for gaming etc. I messed with RTL's a bit and am StressAppTest stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really happy with this result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NIce! Voltage? Clock period 13? And why did you set tCKE to 8??
Click to expand...

Scone advised me to leave it on Auto and that's it on Auto. Suggestion?

Edit: Not sure what you mean by Clock Period 13? I checked your timings, I'll try tCKE at 6.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Scone advised me to leave it on Auto and that's it on Auto. Suggestion?


tCKE on auto is setting a value of 8? cool.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Scone advised me to leave it on Auto and that's it on Auto. Suggestion?
> 
> 
> 
> tCKE on auto is setting a value of 8? cool.
Click to expand...

Changed it to tCKE 6. Had to up Ram voltage from 1.4v to 1.42v for it to not drop channels though.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Changed it to tCKE 6. Had to up Ram voltage from 1.4v to 1.42v for it to not drop channels though.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Very quick rig! So... when you changed tCKE from 8 to 6 it required more voltage? And did the change lead to any improvement in performance? If not, set it back to 8 and lower the voltyage to where it was. Scone is correct - leaving tCKE on auto is fine with that board. Dram clk period may be at near the end of the Dram settings bios page. x99 set to 13, z170 set to 24.
lol - you got that rig running great! Now enjoy!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Changed it to tCKE 6. Had to up Ram voltage from 1.4v to 1.42v for it to not drop channels though.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very quick rig! So... when you changed tCKE from 8 to 6 it required more voltage? And did the change lead to any improvement in performance? If not, set it back to 8 and lower the voltyage to where it was. Scone is correct - leaving tCKE on auto is fine with that board. Dram clk period may be at near the end of the Dram settings bios page. x99 set to 13, z170 set to 24.
> lol - you got that rig running great! Now enjoy!
Click to expand...

Found it, thanks, Jpmboy +1.


----------



## thebski

I was under the impression that tRAS needed to be set to CAS+tRCD+tRTP as a minimum value? In KedarWolf's timings his CAS+tRCD+tRTP is equal to 30 but his tRAS is set at 28. So tRAS doesn't need to be the sum of the other timings as a minimum?

Also, what does the DRAM CLK Period do? Should it just always be set to 13 to X99? Is it something you should stress test after changing?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I was under the impression that tRAS needed to be set to CAS+tRCD+tRTP as a minimum value? In KedarWolf's timings his CAS+tRCD+tRTP is equal to 30 but his tRAS is set at 28. So tRAS doesn't need to be the sum of the other timings as a minimum?
> 
> Also, what does the DRAM CLK Period do? Should it just always be set to 13 to X99? Is it something you should stress test after changing?


Jpmboy taught me tRAS is +2 to -2 the sum of the others. It works in that range.









And I'm two hours of stressapptesting after changing CLK Period to 13, will see the results when I get home tonight after work. Was two hours stable before the change.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy taught me tRAS is +2 to -2 the sum of the others. It works in that range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm two hours of stressapptesting after changing CLK Period to 13, will see the results when I get home tonight after work. Was two hours stable before the change.


Awesome. I may try tRAS of 28 then and change CLK to 13 and see if I'm still stable. Only reason I was on 30 tRAS was because I had read that was the lowest I could go. Thanks!


----------



## jprovido

I've been having trouble keeping my G-skill ripjaws V 3200mhz stable even at stock settings/xmp! after struggling with it for a year I just said whatever and bought another kit yesterday the 32gb Corsair Vengeance lpx 3200mhz. for the first time I was finally able to make it stable at 3200mhz!. I thought it was the IMC but I guess not


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> I've been having trouble keeping my G-skill ripjaws V 3200mhz stable even at stock settings/xmp! after struggling with it for a year I just said whatever and bought another kit yesterday the 32gb Corsair Vengeance lpx 3200mhz. for the first time I was finally able to make it stable at 3200mhz!. I thought it was the IMC but I guess not


Ripjaw V aren't qualified for X99, so tuning may be required as you discovered


----------



## MattBaneLM

i have this in another thread but thought to share here as well....

kit is rated 3200 16-18-18-36 2t 1.35v xmp

binning the two sticks, the better one got to 1.170v (in bios). all set from bios (timing config doesn't work on my board anyway to do it in Windows)

i'm a bit stunned tbh


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> I've been having trouble keeping my G-skill ripjaws V 3200mhz stable even at stock settings/xmp! after struggling with it for a year I just said whatever and bought another kit yesterday the 32gb Corsair Vengeance lpx 3200mhz. for the first time I was finally able to make it stable at 3200mhz!. I thought it was the IMC but I guess not


When I get home tonight I'll post everything I needed to do to get my Ripjaws V CL14 stable at 13-13-13-28 1T. The only thing different you may need to do is I have a really good IMC on my CPU and you may need to keep secondary timings on Auto to test before changing them or loosen them from what I have. Should be able to do 13-13-13 etc. though.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Ripjaw V aren't qualified for X99, so tuning may be required as you discovered


Yes they are.
http://www.gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=0&prop_3=0&prop_4=0&series=2481&prop_6=Quad+Channel+Kit


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yes they are.
> http://www.gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=0&prop_3=0&prop_4=0&series=2481&prop_6=Quad+Channel+Kit


Only the higher density kits, thanks though. Brownie points


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy taught me tRAS is +2 to -2 the sum of the others. It works in that range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm two hours of stressapptesting after changing CLK Period to 13, will see the results when I get home tonight after work. Was two hours stable before the change.


You were indeed correct. tRAS 28 passed fine along with CLK 13. What I don't understand is that my IOL values lowered. They are now at 8 when before 8 was not stable when I manually entered them. I still don't understand all the timings and how they're related very well, but I didn't expect that.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> You were indeed correct. tRAS 28 passed fine along with CLK 13. What I don't understand is that my IOL values lowered. They are now at 8 when before 8 was not stable when I manually entered them. I still don't understand all the timings and how *they're related* very well, but I didn't expect that.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


that's the thing... none of the timings are "in isolation".









edit: you should be able to run 3400 with a BWE cpu:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy taught me tRAS is +2 to -2 the sum of the others. It works in that range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm two hours of stressapptesting after changing CLK Period to 13, will see the results when I get home tonight after work. Was two hours stable before the change.


clk to 13 is likely what the bios/microcode set with Auto... so the stressapptest should be fine.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> I've been having trouble keeping my G-skill ripjaws V 3200mhz stable even at stock settings/xmp! after struggling with it for a year I just said whatever and bought another kit yesterday the 32gb Corsair Vengeance lpx 3200mhz. for the first time I was finally able to make it stable at 3200mhz!. I thought it was the IMC but I guess not


if i'm not mistaken, they have a LT guarantee... if they can't run XMP when a competitors 3200c14 kit will, I'd send them in under warranty.


----------



## Kimir

That's more like it, RTL 53/51 and IOL 8 is what you should have.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's the thing... none of the timings are "in isolation".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: you should be able to run 3400 with a BWE cpu:


So how would one go lower from here? Is it possible to put tRTP to 3 so I can lower tRAS to 27 also bringing down IOLs?

On the 3400, I will have to give it a try. Any reasonable expectations for a VDimm increase? I'm at 1.4 currently. I'm honestly not sure what a safe voltage is for a closed case 24/7 operating environment.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> So how would one go lower from here? Is it possible to put tRTP to 3 so I can lower tRAS to 27 also bringing down IOLs?
> 
> On the 3400, I will have to give it a try. Any reasonable expectations for a VDimm increase? I'm at 1.4 currently. I'm honestly not sure what a safe voltage is for a closed case 24/7 operating environment.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Image


Got it. Any comment on tRTP to 3? Is that even a valid timing? As I said, I still have quite little understanding of this stuff, so I appreciate everyone's help.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Got it. Any comment on tRTP to 3? Is that even a valid timing? As I said, I still have quite little understanding of this stuff, so I appreciate everyone's help.


sure, it's possible.. only way to see if the kit can do it is to try. I think @Blameless was running [email protected] with 2666? Praz would know a lot more about that (timing clashes) than I do.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> sure, it's possible.. only way to see if the kit can do it is to try. I think @Blameless was running [email protected] with 2666? Praz would know a lot more about that (timing clashes) than I do.


I can do 13-13-13-27 with tRTP 3 at 3200 at 1.4 VDimm. I'm trying 3400 right now and I'm at 1.45V VDimm. At the moment I have tRFC at 320 which I backed off from 240. It's not stable though, and I'm guessing is going to take 1.47 or 1.48 VDimm to do 3400 with this tight of timings. What is a safe max VDimm?


----------



## Silent Scone

Might need more VCCSA also


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Might need more VCCSA also


I have tried up to 1.1 VCCSA. 1.05 seems to help up from 1.0 but past that I don't see any gains. Just needs more VDimm I'm afraid. I'm not sure I should go any higher or not. I am not very educated on how VDimm affects everything and what is safe and not safe.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Just needs more VDimm I'm afraid.


Don't be afraid. Just lax some of the seconds off. I wouldn't bother juicing the memory anymore for this purpose.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Don't be afraid. Just lax some of the seconds off. I wouldn't bother juicing the memory anymore for this purpose.


My hope is to find 24/7 settings. I don't know if 1.45 VDimm is out of line or not. My max Dimm temp according to corsair Realtemp with 1.4V on 3200 tights is 45C. I have not entered Windows with 1.45V to know what it is on that setting yet.

What would be your top priority seconds to start backing down?


----------



## Arctucas

How can I improve my copy speed?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> My hope is to find 24/7 settings. I don't know if 1.45 VDimm is out of line or not. My max Dimm temp according to corsair Realtemp with 1.4V on 3200 tights is 45C. I have not entered Windows with 1.45V to know what it is on that setting yet.
> 
> What would be your top priority seconds to start backing down?


I've been running 1.45V VDIMM for quite a while now... but I do recognize that 1.45V and 3400 places strain on the IMC and also raises some voltages in the background (Praz can explain). If you want to try 3400, put RTP back to 4.. or better yet, put all timings except the primary timings back to Auto - and the promaries back to the base XMP values. Then get 3400 working and then tighten up. The timings from 3200 may not necessarily work at 3400 - that's why I have 13-14-14, 13-13-13 works at 3200. with 64GB my kit needs 2T for complete stability.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> 
> How can I improve my copy speed?


more info would be helpful.. like what kit, board, cpu etc. But best to start by changing 2T (CR) to 1. And those primary timings seem a bit screwy?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy,

Why is Ripjaws V CL14 Z170 and Trident Z CL14 X99?

I thought both were the exact same b-die.

If they're not the same I probably would of bought the Trident Z, not the Ripjaws V.

I'm okay I guess, still working out fine.

Edit: If they are the same b-die I'm guessing it's just the XMP profile then.

Second edit: And might be why some are having trouble with the XMP profile, wrong platform.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> more info would be helpful.. like what kit, board, cpu etc. But best to start by changing 2T (CR) to 1. And those primary timings seem a bit screwy?


Tightest timings I could manage.

Not completely stable, so I went back to 15-15-15-30 2T. VDIMM is set to 1.35V in BIOS, 1.38V actually. 1T will not POST.

Kit is G.Skill Trident Z F4-3600C16D-8GTZ.

Other info is right there.

So, what do I play around with to increase Copy speed?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Tightest timings I could manage.
> 
> Not completely stable, so I went back to 15-15-15-30 2T. VDIMM is set to 1.35V in BIOS, 1.38V actually. 1T will not POST.
> 
> Kit is G.Skill Trident Z F4-3600C16D-8GTZ.
> 
> *Other info is right there.*
> 
> So, what do I play around with to increase Copy speed?


\ lol - no it's not.








Motherboard?? CPU?? Fill out rigbuilder and add it to your sig. anyway - 1T wil not post at what VDIMM and what VCCSA?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy,
> 
> Why is Ripjaws V CL14 Z170 and Trident Z CL14 X99?
> I thought both were the exact same b-die.
> If they're not the same I probably would of bought the Trident Z, not the Ripjaws V.
> I'm okay I guess, still working out fine.
> Edit: If they are the same b-die I'm guessing it's just the XMP profile then.
> Second edit: And might be why some are having trouble with the XMP profile, wetting platform.


you seem to be doing very well with the RJV's.








I'm running *RJV's* on my R5E/5960x @ 3200 13-14-13 1.425V (tight) - not as tight as the TZ 3200c14's I had and sold, but I chalk that up to the lottery.
I think the RJVs are basically the same as TZs with maybe a lower bin and of course different heat spreaders.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Jpmboy,
> 
> Why is Ripjaws V CL14 Z170 and Trident Z CL14 X99?
> 
> I thought both were the exact same b-die.
> 
> If they're not the same I probably would of bought the Trident Z, not the Ripjaws V.
> 
> I'm okay I guess, still working out fine.
> 
> Edit: If they are the same b-die I'm guessing it's just the XMP profile then.
> 
> Second edit: And might be why some are having trouble with the XMP profile, wetting platform.


Because that's how GSKILL chose to segregate them. GSKILL is all hand binned, working off the bat with RJV is more to chance. Most of the b-die kits lend themselves well to X99 boards, though


----------



## mus1mus

Finally!

Some workout for the TZ!







I didn't have time to read the hard rules back so yeah, let me know if these fit.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> \ lol - no it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Motherboard?? CPU?? Fill out rigbuilder and add it to your sig. anyway - 1T wil not post at what VDIMM and what VCCSA?




My apologies, is not the info in the outlined boxes sufficient?

VccSA = 1.25V
I did note the VDIMM of 1.35V (1.38V actual).

Perhaps something is wrong with my posts, that this information is not visible to you?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> 
> My apologies, is not the info in the outlined boxes sufficient?
> VccSA = 1.25V
> I did note the VDIMM of 1.35V (1.38V actual).
> Perhaps something is wrong with my posts, that this information is not visible to you?


got it (I was hoping you'd fill out rigbuilder).
several things:

1) on some/many boards there are 4 3rd timings that need to be set the same as CAS when going above 3600: TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd and increase dram voltage to the 1.4-1.425 range.
2: try setting BCLK back to 100 (or use 125 x38) and then ram to 3600. Check the copy bandwidth.
3: post a screenshot with Asrock Timing configurator so we can see all the timings that board is setting. (version 4.0.3 should work)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## mus1mus

So HCI 700%.
Rampage V Extreme
1.9V VCCIN (BIOS)
1.87V VCCIN (Windows)
LLC 7
RVE BIOS 4302

5930K
4600MHz
1.2 VCore (BIOS)
1.216 VCore (Windows)

TridentZ 3200C14 32GB
3200MHz
13-13-13-32-1T
1.45 Volts
VCCSA - +0.100


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> got it (I was hoping you'd fill out rigbuilder).
> several things:
> 
> 1) on some/many boards there are 4 3rd timings that need to be set the same as CAS when going above 3600: TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd and increase dram voltage to the 1.4-1.425 range.
> 2: try setting BCLK back to 100 (or use 125 x38) and then ram to 3600. Check the copy bandwidth.
> 3: post a screenshot with Asrock Timing configurator so we can see all the timings that board is setting. (version 4.0.3 should work)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I set the four timings your referenced to match CAS (15).

I included Mem Tweakit as well as AsRock Configurator and the XMP2 timings from AIDA64.



Apparently, the four timings set to 15 (they were at 12), had no effect.

Screenshot at 100BClk with XMP2 enabled.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> I set the four timings your referenced to match CAS (15).
> 
> I included Mem Tweakit as well as AsRock Configurator and the XMP2 timings from AIDA64.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, the four timings set to 15 (they were at 12), had no effect.
> 
> Screenshot at 100BClk with XMP2 enabled.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


( the screenshot is a very small pic and does not expand as the original - just use the picture/Image tool in the editor to post a picture, avoid 3rd-party repositories).
erm... you do realize that if all those AID64 sensor displays on the desktop are active, getting a consistent.. never mind "accurate" reading in the bandwidth benchmark is gonna be very difficult, right? That said, you should be able to run 1T (CR=1) by adding 25mV vdimm, this will help with your goal. Then lower tCWL as low as 9 if the kit will support this - setting tCWL low frives several other timings down also. Then tRTP and tFAW (FAW should be >= 4x tRRD) and tRAS should be = CAS+tRCD+tRTP +/- 2.









franklly your copy speed is not that low considering the read and write. Lastly... unless you test the stability with GSAT or HCI memtest, the AID64 readings may be reflective of error "tolerance".


----------



## djgar

Is there a contest for wacky 24x7 timings I can enter?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I've been running 1.45V VDIMM for quite a while now... but I do recognize that 1.45V and 3400 places strain on the IMC and also raises some voltages in the background (Praz can explain). If you want to try 3400, put RTP back to 4.. or better yet, put all timings except the primary timings back to Auto - and the promaries back to the base XMP values. Then get 3400 working and then tighten up. The timings from 3200 may not necessarily work at 3400 - that's why I have 13-14-14, 13-13-13 works at 3200. with 64GB my kit needs 2T for complete stability.


3400 seems to work good for me at 14-14-14-30 at 1.425V. Haven't messed with seconds or anything yet. However, I can't get it to go at 13-14-14-29 even up to 1.45V everything else on auto. For now I will probably just stick with 3200 tight because it's so easy to run. A simple 1.4 VDimm and nothing else requires any tweaking really. I may see what I can do with 3400 C14 at some point as far as tightening goes.

Which would you prefer, 3200 C13 tight or 3400 C14?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> NIce! Voltage? Clock period 13? And why did you set tCKE to 8??


Been messing with CLK Period.

At 13 get this.



At 11 StressAppTest stable get this. Everything else doesn't change in MemTweakIt.





Slight improvement in AIDA cache and memory test at 11.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Is there a contest for wacky 24x7 timings I can enter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


no.. but I think you won anyway! Remember... some timings display in OS tools as the number you set, but the timing error may be corrected by the bios/microcode and not show the subbed value.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> 3400 seems to work good for me at 14-14-14-30 at 1.425V. Haven't messed with seconds or anything yet. However, I can't get it to go at 13-14-14-29 even up to 1.45V everything else on auto. For now I will probably just stick with 3200 tight because it's so easy to run. A simple 1.4 VDimm and nothing else requires any tweaking really. I may see what I can do with 3400 C14 at some point as far as tightening goes.
> 
> Which would you prefer, 3200 C13 tight or 3400 C14?


they're pretty close (and I'd bet the 3400 2nds would be the same as 3200). Latency vs bandwidth... different beasts.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Been messing with CLK Period.
> 
> At 13 get this.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 11 StressAppTest stable get this. Everything else doesn't change in MemTweakIt.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slight improvement in AIDA cache and memory test at 11.


nice work KW!


the memory tests in SiSoft are a bit more "discerning" if you want to know more details on the effect of clk period.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Got it. Any comment on tRTP to 3? Is that even a valid timing? As I said, I still have quite little understanding of this stuff, so I appreciate everyone's help.


It's not valid, 4 is the minimum spacing required here


----------



## mus1mus

2400% HCI at 3333MHz

Rampage V Extreme
1.9V VCCIN (BIOS)
1.87V VCCIN (Windows)
LLC 7
RVE BIOS 4302

5930K
4625MHz
4500MHz Cache
1.2 VCore (BIOS)
1.216 VCore (Windows)

TridentZ 3200C14 32GB
3333MHz
13-14-13-32-1T
1.45 Volts
VCCSA - +0.100


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> 2400% HCI at 3333MHz
> 
> Rampage V Extreme
> 1.9V VCCIN (BIOS)
> 1.87V VCCIN (Windows)
> LLC 7
> RVE BIOS 4302
> 
> 5930K
> 4625MHz
> 4500MHz Cache
> 1.2 VCore (BIOS)
> 1.216 VCore (Windows)
> 
> TridentZ 3200C14 32GB
> 3333MHz
> 13-14-13-32-1T
> 1.45 Volts
> VCCSA - +0.100
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Can you recheck that? Screenshot says 2666


----------



## mus1mus

Says Asrock Timing Configurator. Check CPU-Z and HWInfo that display 1666.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah spotted it. Just use Memtweak, no point using something to report things if it's not working correctly lol


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yeah spotted it. Just use Memtweak, no point using something to report things if it's not working correctly lol


lol.












Spoiler: Speaking of which. !


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Says Asrock Timing Configurator. Check CPU-Z and HWInfo that display 1666.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


yeah that's strange - ATC v3.0.6 is reading te dram freq on my r5e and model 10 correctly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's not valid, 4 is the minimum spacing required here


now that you mention it.. I think blameless demo'd that 3 performed the same as 4... the timings was bottomed at 4 (and right in bios on the R5E it says min value is 4).


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah that's strange - ATC v3.0.6 is reading te dram freq on my r5e and model 10 correctly.


The memory speed is displayed correctly with straps other than 100? My experience has been the memory divider ratio is used assuming a 100 strap setting.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ( the screenshot is a very small pic and does not expand as the original - just use the picture/Image tool in the editor to post a picture, avoid 3rd-party repositories).
> erm... you do realize that if all those AID64 sensor displays on the desktop are active, getting a consistent.. never mind "accurate" reading in the bandwidth benchmark is gonna be very difficult, right? That said, you should be able to run 1T (CR=1) by adding 25mV vdimm, this will help with your goal. Then lower tCWL as low as 9 if the kit will support this - setting tCWL low frives several other timings down also. Then tRTP and tFAW (FAW should be >= 4x tRRD) and tRAS should be = CAS+tRCD+tRTP +/- 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> franklly your copy speed is not that low considering the read and write. Lastly... unless you test the stability with GSAT or HCI memtest, the AID64 readings may be reflective of error "tolerance".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ( the screenshot is a very small pic and does not expand as the original - just use the picture/Image tool in the editor to post a picture, avoid 3rd-party repositories).
> erm... you do realize that if all those AID64 sensor displays on the desktop are active, getting a consistent.. never mind "accurate" reading in the bandwidth benchmark is gonna be very difficult, right? That said, you should be able to run 1T (CR=1) by adding 25mV vdimm, this will help with your goal. Then lower tCWL as low as 9 if the kit will support this - setting tCWL low frives several other timings down also. Then tRTP and tFAW (FAW should be >= 4x tRRD) and tRAS should be = CAS+tRCD+tRTP +/- 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> franklly your copy speed is not that low considering the read and write. Lastly... unless you test the stability with GSAT or HCI memtest, the AID64 readings may be reflective of error "tolerance".


OK, fixed the pic in my previous post, just a habit of using Photobucket, sorry.

Did some tweaking per your suggestions, but it will not post at these settings using CR1, no matter the voltage (tried as high as 1.5V).



I also have a question about tRAS; by what you suggest, my tRAS should be 45?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> OK, fixed the pic in my previous post, just a habit of using Photobucket, sorry.
> 
> Did some tweaking per your suggestions, but it will not post at these settings using CR1, no matter the voltage (tried as high as 1.5V).
> 
> 
> 
> I also have a question about tRAS; by what you suggest, my tRAS should be 45?


Your current settings mean you should ideally set a tRAS of 40 or higher, i.e one or two above


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Your current settings mean you should ideally set a tRAS of 40 or higher, i.e one or two above


OK.

It does make me wonder, then, why the XMP 2 profile is 16-16-16-*36*. should it not be *48* +/-?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> The memory speed is displayed correctly with straps other than 100? My experience has been the memory divider ratio is used assuming a 100 strap setting.


i don't know off hand, I'll have to take a look, but I think you are right.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> OK, fixed the pic in my previous post, just a habit of using Photobucket, sorry.
> 
> Did some tweaking per your suggestions, but it will not post at these settings using CR1, no matter the voltage (tried as high as 1.5V).
> 
> 
> 
> I also have a question about tRAS; by what you suggest, my tRAS should be 45?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> OK.
> 
> It does make me wonder, then, why the *XMP 2 profile* is 16-16-16-*36*. should it not be *48* +/-?


I think your ram looks fine... one question, are the two sticks in the correct slots (channel 2)?

to your last question/point.. it's been explained here before - long story, the ras window needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete cas, rtp and rcd as scone said... unless there is an offset.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I think your ram looks fine... one question, are the two sticks in the correct slots (channel 2)?
> 
> to your last question/point.. it's been explained here before - long story, the ras window needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete cas, rtp and rcd as scone said... unless there is an offset.


Yes, both in channel B. You are probably correct, since I cannot seem to improve the AIDA64 benchmark more than a few percent.

It passed 1300% HCI MemTest at 15-15-15-35 2T, 3640MHz, 1.38 VDIMM.

I suppose I should just leave it there.

Thanks


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's not valid, 4 is the minimum spacing required here


I always wonder why on skylake the minimum is 6. Any reason for that?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's not valid, 4 is the minimum spacing required here


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> now that you mention it.. I think blameless demo'd that 3 performed the same as 4... the timings was bottomed at 4 (and right in bios on the R5E it says min value is 4).


I tried both tRTP 3 and 4 with associated tRAS values and performance is consistently higher in the WinRar benchmark with tRTP to 4, so I believe Scone is correct, at least on the RVE10. I'll keep my tRTP at 4 for everything from here on out.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Yes, both in channel B. You are probably correct, since I cannot seem to improve the AIDA64 benchmark more than a few percent.
> 
> It passed 1300% HCI MemTest at 15-15-15-35 2T, 3640MHz, 1.38 VDIMM.
> 
> I suppose I should just leave it there.
> 
> Thanks


loos good! .. but check your manual anyway for the proper 2 DIMM configuration on that motherboard.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I tried both tRTP 3 and 4 with associated tRAS values and performance is consistently higher in the WinRar benchmark with tRTP to 4, so I believe Scone is correct, at least on the RVE10. I'll keep my tRTP at 4 for everything from here on out.


lol - I know Scone is right (that's usually the case







), besides it says that right at the bottom of the bios page when you select the tRTP field. Good to know you tried and hot first-hand experience with it tho.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> no.. but I think you won anyway! Remember... some timings display in OS tools as the number you set, but the timing error may be corrected by the bios/microcode and not show the subbed value.
> ...


I've been keen on that, but these timings have a definite effect in the benchmarks vs. what one would expect if they were being corrected. If they were being corrected being the scenes there would not be a noticeable effect in the benchmarks, no? Taking into account there are always some variations of course.

Here are respective AIDA benchmarks between sane 13-15-12-32 and insane 13-15-12-15 (everything else equal), allowing for best of 4 and they were fairly consistent in the 1K difference in read & copy and similarity in write. Not huge but definitely noticeable.

BTW BIOS 1301 let me set my bclk up a tick with same voltages, 100.1 from 100.0, and keep an almost 2 hr. (111 min.) RealBench. Previously it died just north of 30 minutes @ 100.1.


----------



## Silent Scone

The tRAS law is entirely static. If the value is invalid and there is a performance increase it's still likely being substituted as well as other settings. For instance if you're still running a tRPT value of 3 this is almost definitely what is happening. When tRAS is below the threshold you are asking the memory page to close before the data has transferred, which is bad. These values will be being corrected for proper operation


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I think your ram looks fine... one question, are the two sticks in the correct slots (channel 2)?
> 
> to your last question/point.. it's been explained here before - long story, the ras window needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete cas, rtp and rcd as scone said... unless there is an offset.


Yes, both in Channel B.

So, it is reasonable to presume there is an offset in the XMP2 profile?

I have also seen it said that tRAS should equal tRCD plus tWR, which, in my case is: (tWR = 23) + (tRAS = 15) or 38.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> loos good! .. but check your manual anyway for the proper 2 DIMM configuration on that motherboard.
> l


All I see in the manual is to make sure Slot 2 is populated and to use Slot 2 and Slot 4 for two DIMMs.

I need to further investigate why the XMP 2 SPD has the tRAS at 36, when by what everyone says, it should be 48 +/- 2.

As to the 'offset' you mentioned, what setting would that be?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Yes, both in Channel B.
> 
> So, it is reasonable to presume there is an offset in the XMP2 profile?
> 
> I have also seen it said that tRAS should equal tRCD plus tWR, which, in my case is: (tWR = 23) + (tRAS = 15) or 38.
> All I see in the manual is to make sure Slot 2 is populated and to use Slot 2 and Slot 4 for two DIMMs.
> 
> *I need to further investigate why the XMP 2 SPD has the tRAS at 36, when by what everyone says, it should be 48 +/- 2.*
> 
> As to the 'offset' you mentioned, what setting would that be?
> 
> Thanks


this will be a quixotic adventure for you. there is no loss for a vendor to set this below the min clock count since the microcode corrects the error. it's a fact, the ras window must be open for the three operations to complete. you can read about it here:

JESD79-4.pdf 3864k .pdf file


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The tRAS law is entirely static. If the value is invalid and there is a performance increase it's still likely being substituted as well as other settings. For instance if you're still running a tRPT value of 3 this is almost definitely what is happening. When tRAS is below the threshold you are asking the memory page to close before the data has transferred, which is bad. These values will be being corrected for proper operation


Well, if the substitutions result in better timings than if properly set, I'll take it









Speaking of substitutions, I've noticed that whatever I enter in tRFC is always bumped by 1 after boot. Anybody else getting this?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Well, if the substitutions result in better timings than if properly set, I'll take it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of substitutions, I've noticed that whatever I enter in tRFC is always bumped by 1 after boot. Anybody else getting this?


You could set most of them yourself if you knew what the condition was


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You could set most of them yourself if you knew what the condition was


And therein lies the rub







. Too bad they don't explicitly show what things get changed to.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> this will be a quixotic adventure for you. there is no loss for a vendor to set this below the min clock count since the microcode corrects the error. it's a fact, the ras window must be open for the three operations to complete. you can read about it here:
> 
> JESD79-4.pdf 3864k .pdf file


Cannot download the file.

I am not disputing what you say, in fact, I remember the tRAS setting math from my DDR2/DDR3 overclocking adventures.

That the microcode makes the corrections sort of explains the discrepancy. I am still wondering about the 'offset' you mentioned?

As it appears to be stable at my current settings, I believe I will keep them as they are.

I was hoping for a little better copy speed, but it is what it is.

Thanks again.

EDIT:

I was looking at the chart Silent Scone put up for the stability test for Skylake DDR4 8-16GB, and I see one user (Silent Scone, the first entry on the chart) that has a tRAS that follows the math.

Just sayin'...


----------



## Silent Scone

How would you know that, considering the table only shows primary timings lol.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> I was looking at the chart Silent Scone put up for the stability test for Skylake DDR4 8-16GB, and I see one user (Silent Scone, the first entry on the chart) that has a tRAS that follows the math.
> 
> Just sayin'...


Hello

All my entries follow the physical constraints for memory timings. But as Scone has wrote above one would not know that looking at the chart.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Cannot download the file.
> 
> I was looking at the chart Silent Scone put up for the stability test for Skylake DDR4 8-16GB, and I see one user (Silent Scone, the first entry on the chart) that has a tRAS that follows the math.
> 
> Just sayin'...


download is working now...

and tRAS with a +/- 2 around the predicted sum has not failed or fouled for me yet... and consistently gives the best performance in a number of tests... AID64 is a good indicator, but not the only one. SiSoft and Geekbench4 have good memory performance tests too.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> How would you know that, considering the table only shows primary timings lol.


Hmm... perhaps I am mis-reading the timings.

Please correct me:

I understood the following to be correct: (I am using the first line in the Skylake DDR4 chart, Silent Scone)

20 (CAS latency or CL)-21 (RAS# to CAS# delay or tRCD)-21(RAS# precharge or tRP)-62 (Cycle Time or *tRAS*)-1T (Command Rate).

Is not the fourth value the tRAS we have been discussing, or am I way off base here?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Hmm... perhaps I am mis-reading the timings.
> 
> Please correct me:
> 
> I understood the following to be correct: (I am using the first line in the Skylake DDR4 chart, Silent Scone)
> 
> 20 (CAS latency or CL)-21 (RAS# to CAS# delay or tRCD)-21(RAS# precharge or tRP)-62 (Cycle Time or *tRAS*)-1T (Command Rate).
> 
> Is not the fourth value the tRAS we have been discussing, or am I way off base here?
> 
> Thanks


tRAS min = Cas+tRCD=tRTP. tRTP is not in the OP tables.

= 31. I run 29


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> tRAS min = Cas+tRCD=tRTP. tRTP is not in the OP tables.
> 
> = 31. I run 29


Ahh... I see. tRTP, not tRP.

My mistake, I apologize.

Well, apparently I have messing with the wrong timing. I will give tRTP a try.

Thanks again, I appreciate the lesson.

EDIT:

OK, I set tRTP to 6, from 12, ran AIDA64 benchmark, and... no difference.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Ahh... I see. tRTP, not tRP.
> My mistake, I apologize.
> Well, apparently I have messing with the wrong timing. I will give tRTP a try.
> Thanks again, I appreciate the lesson.
> EDIT:
> OK, I set tRTP to 6, from 12, ran AIDA64 benchmark, and... no difference.


no mistake, it's easy to get these symbols/acronyms mixed up


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> no mistake, it's easy to get these symbols/acronyms mixed up


True that.

I do appreciate you guys having patience with me.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> The memory speed is displayed correctly with straps other than 100? My experience has been the memory divider ratio is used assuming a 100 strap setting.


Yeah - with 125 strap ATC reads the frequency/sped incorrectly. this is 3333 ram on 125 strap.


----------



## Arctucas

@Jpmboy,

I revisited your earlier post about the four tRDWR settings, adjusting mine to match the tCL.

In BIOS; I lowered my BClk to 103MHz, raised the RAM frequency to 3600MHz and added 125mV to VDIMM (1.475V)

It never would boot with RAM above 3640MHz, regardless of voltage (I went as high as 1.6V), and now I have the RAM at 3708MHz, with the same primary settings.

Of course, I still need at least 1000% HCI MemTest,

Rep given.

Thanks

By the way, does tRFC have any significant effect, and how is that setting determined?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> @Jpmboy,
> 
> I revisited your earlier post about the four tRDWR settings, adjusting mine to match the tCL.
> 
> In BIOS; I lowered my BClk to 103MHz, raised the RAM frequency to 3600MHz and added 125mV to VDIMM (1.475V)
> 
> It never would boot with RAM above 3640MHz, regardless of voltage (I went as high as 1.6V), and now I have the RAM at 3708MHz, with the same primary settings.
> 
> Of course, I still need at least 1000% HCI MemTest,
> 
> Rep given.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> By the way, does tRFC have any significant effect, and how is that setting determined?


I know it's a bit dated (wink-wink, nod-nod), but it's one of the best reads on this subject: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3851/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-sdram-memory-but-were-afraid-to-ask
(Raja is the author).


----------



## Silent Scone

The only thing that you'd want to cover beyond that is bank groups, the bulk of that article and timing laws still apply. You'll get more information from that article than you will scouring various white papers (which aren't written for tits like us)


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The only thing that you'd want to cover beyond that is bank groups, the bulk of that article and timing laws still apply. You'll get more information from that article than you will scouring various white papers (which aren't written for tits like us)


There are so many more timings since the DDR2 days.

I have been playing around with various timings, BClk and VDIMM.

As of now, I have managed BClk of 103.5, CPU multi @ 47, UnCore multi @ 46, with RAM strap at 3600MHz.

CPU @ 4864.5MHz 1.39VCore.

Ram @ 3727 MHz 15-15-15-34-2T 1.475VDIMM in BIOS. 1.517VDIMM in Windows.

While I still need to do my stability testing, it seems OK, so far, but still tweaking it.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> There are so many more timings since the DDR2 days.
> 
> I have been playing around with various timings, BClk and VDIMM.
> 
> As of now, I have managed BClk of 103.5, CPU multi @ 47, UnCore multi @ 46, with RAM strap at 3600MHz.
> 
> CPU @ 4864.5MHz 1.39VCore.
> 
> Ram @ 3727 MHz 15-15-15-34-2T 1.475VDIMM in BIOS. 1.517VDIMM in Windows.
> 
> While I still need to do my stability testing, it seems OK, so far, but still tweaking it.


you really need to add you rig to your sig. don;t expect anyone to scroll back to find a post where you list your kit. AFAWK, you have 4.8 running on a 2 core.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> There are so many more timings since the DDR2 days.


Point being you still don't understand ones that have been around since those days


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Point being you still don't understand ones that have been around since those days


Well, obviously.

But that is the point of asking for guidance from those, such as yourself, who do know.

From my searching the InterWebz, I have yet to find any definitive guide that explains in any comprehensive, yet easily understandable for the layperson, manner, the relationship between all the timings and how adjusting one timings affects the others.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Well, obviously.
> 
> But that is the point of asking for guidance from those, such as yourself, who do know.
> 
> From my searching the InterWebz, I have yet to find any definitive guide that explains in any comprehensive, yet easily understandable for the layperson, manner, the relationship between all the timings and how adjusting one timings affects the others.


Jpm just gave you a link to one, and you shrugged it off with a blanket statement along the lines of 'a lot has changed', when in actual fact it has not. If that article isn't of any help to you, then you're not likely to get any further than you are already.

Like majority here whether they claim to or not, I know little to not a lot at all when it comes to understanding DRAM. That article from Anandtech is as close as you're going to get to understanding.

Why do you think nothing else has been written in an attempt to break these things down in the same fashion more recently? It's because in part that there is limited value there for users, but also even after several attempts at easier comprehension people aren't any the wiser for it.

To start with if wanting to grasp the minimum values (such as understanding the use of tRTP in order to further reduce tRAS) - that article is where you want to begin.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Jpm just gave you a link to one, and you shrugged it off with a blanket statement along the lines of 'a lot has changed', when in actual fact it has not. If that article isn't of any help to you, then you're not likely to get any further than you are already.
> 
> Like majority here whether they claim to or not, I know little to not a lot at all when it comes to understanding DRAM. That article from Anandtech is as close as you're going to get to understanding.
> 
> Why do you think nothing else has been written in an attempt to break these things down in the same fashion more recently? It's because in part that there is limited value there for users, but also even after several attempts at easier comprehension people aren't any the wiser for it.
> 
> To start with if wanting to grasp the minimum values (such as understanding the use of tRTP in order to further reduce tRAS) - that article is where you want to begin.


Not sure where I offended you, but I apologize in any case.

Actually, I said there were more timings, which, according to one article I found, is true for DDR4 vs. DDR2.

I believe I did not 'shrug off', as you say, anything. If you inferred that from any comment I made, again, I apologize for my inability to communicate that to you succinctly.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Not sure where I offended you, but I apologize in any case.
> 
> Actually, I said there were more timings, which, according to one article I found, is true for DDR4 vs. DDR2.
> 
> I believe I did not 'shrug off', as you say, anything. If you inferred that from any comment I made, again, I apologize for my inability to communicate that to you succinctly.


It's just that time of the month for him don't worry about it.







.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> It's just that time of the month for him don't worry about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Just trying to be a good citizen of the forum.


----------



## Praz

Hello

All info regarding memory timings can be found in the appropriate JEDEC and Intel MSR publications.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Not sure where I offended you, but I apologize in any case.
> 
> Actually, I said there were more timings, which, according to one article I found, is true for DDR4 vs. DDR2.
> 
> I believe I did not 'shrug off', as you say, anything. If you inferred that from any comment I made, again, I apologize for my inability to communicate that to you succinctly.


Don't confuse being offended with wasting my own time trying to stop you wasting yours







Like you said earlier in the week, "just sayin..."

Feel free to read the information that's been posted in your direction already. Also yes there are more timings (as I suggested by pointing out bank groups), but I'm sure the article you found doesn't explain the intrinsic ones you'd like to learn as well as the Anandtech piece.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Don't confuse being offended with wasting my own time trying to stop you wasting yours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like you said earlier in the week, "just sayin..."
> 
> Feel free to read the information that's been posted in your direction already. Also yes there are more timings (as I suggested by pointing out bank groups), but I'm sure the article you found doesn't explain the intrinsic ones you'd like to learn as well as the Anandtech piece.


Please, do not waste any more time on my account.

I appreciate yours and Jpmboy's attempts to enlighten me.

I will persue this on my own from now on.

Thanks again.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Please, do not waste any more time on my account.
> 
> I appreciate yours and Jpmboy's attempts to enlighten me.
> 
> *I will persue this on my own from now on.*
> 
> Thanks again.


NP with posting here and getting help going forward... just PLZ fill out rig builder!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Please, do not waste any more time on my account.
> 
> I appreciate yours and Jpmboy's attempts to enlighten me.
> 
> I will persue this on my own from now on.
> 
> Thanks again.


As long as you heed what's being said then there's no issues asking


----------



## KedarWolf

Just to be clear it's VCCIO CPU you raise that can help with memory stability right. So I don't need to raise the other 1.05v options, just if i'm HCI stable with them all at 1.075v I'm good just putting VCCIO CPU at 1.075v?

Thanks for your help, I can never remember which 1.05v option I need to set for memory stability.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Just to be clear it's VCCIO CPU you raise that can help with memory stability right. So I don't need to raise the other 1.05v options, just if i'm HCI stable with them all at 1.075v I'm good just putting VCCIO CPU at 1.075v?
> 
> Thanks for your help, I can never remember which 1.05v option I need to set for memory stability.


vccio cpu _can_ help.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Just to be clear it's VCCIO CPU you raise that can help with memory stability right. So I don't need to raise the other 1.05v options, just if i'm HCI stable with them all at 1.075v I'm good just putting VCCIO CPU at 1.075v?
> 
> Thanks for your help, I can never remember which 1.05v option I need to set for memory stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vccio cpu _can_ help.
Click to expand...

Thank you.


----------



## Silent Scone

I tend to raise this by 20 to 30mv from the get go to avoid having to re-tread, but some systems may be fine at stock value..


----------



## Desolutional

It helps a bit if your IMC is rubbish... but mileage will vary, try tuning Vdimm and VCCSA first, if those don't help, then try VCCIO.









I think anything up to 1.20V is safe. Get the overclocking warranty too, just in case. Not sure how far the others feel is safe for VTT/VCCIO on HW-E is.

Skylake can go higher I think, I have 1.20V on my Skylake system, but that's cause the DIMMs were tuned for X99, not Z170. My auto mobo rules (Asrock) sets VCCSA to 1.30V and VTT to 1.20V on Z170.

Here

core-i7-lga2011-3-datasheet-vol-1.pdf 795k .pdf file
, on page 51 it says VCCIO_IN has a max of 1.35V and VCCPECI has a max of 1.35V, so I assume it's a retrofitted IMC from DDR3 days, safe limit of 1.35V max, but not sure how the diode effect with the lower DDR4 voltages will affect that safe voltage limit.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> It *helps a bit if your IMC is rubbish*... but mileage will vary, try tuning Vdimm and VCCSA first, if those don't help, then try VCCIO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think anything up to 1.20V is safe. Get the overclocking warranty too, just in case. Not sure how far the others feel is safe for VTT/VCCIO on HW-E is.
> 
> Skylake can go higher I think, I have 1.20V on my Skylake system, but that's cause the DIMMs were tuned for X99, not Z170. My auto mobo rules (Asrock) sets VCCSA to 1.30V and VTT to 1.20V on Z170.
> 
> Here
> 
> core-i7-lga2011-3-datasheet-vol-1.pdf 795k .pdf file
> , on page 51 it says VCCIO_IN has a max of 1.35V and VCCPECI has a max of 1.35V, so I assume it's a retrofitted IMC from DDR3 days, safe limit of 1.35V max, but not sure how the diode effect with the lower DDR4 voltages will affect that safe voltage limit.


have you tried overclocking 64 or 128GB of memory? IMC load and dram freq are not the same as IMC being "rubbish".


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> have you tried overclocking 64 or 128GB of memory? IMC load and dram freq are not the same as IMC being "rubbish".


Yeah, mine sucks big time. Used to have a 64GB kit then 32GB, stuff just got progressively harder the more I used and needed for Adobe suite, so I just stick to 2666MHz and 100 strap. I can do 16GB at 3200MHz, anything bigger, no go.









At least I can push the timings down a decent amount when I pump the VCCIO, VCCSA seems to like 1.03V on my setup. I was surprised when VCCIO was scaling all the way up to 1.20V on my setup too, I thought my IMC simply wasn't going to do anything, but it does help. As soon as I drop to stock VCCIO, I had to knock timings up by at least 2 each. Please donate IMC to me please.









I can't complain, Intel themselves only certify the chip to 64GB or 128GB and 2133MHz JEDEC spec. Any more than that and it's silicon lottery.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Yeah, mine sucks big time. Used to have a 64GB kit then 32GB, stuff just got progressively harder the more I used and needed for Adobe suite, so I just stick to 2666MHz and 100 strap. I can do 16GB at 3200MHz, anything bigger, no go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least I can push the timings down a decent amount when I pump the VCCIO, VCCSA seems to like 1.03V on my setup. I was surprised when VCCIO was scaling all the way up to 1.20V on my setup too, I thought my IMC simply wasn't going to do anything, but it does help. As soon as I drop to stock VCCIO, I had to knock timings up by at least 2 each. Please donate IMC to me please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't complain, Intel themselves only certify the chip to 64GB or 128GB and 2133MHz JEDEC spec. *Any more than that and it's silicon lottery*.


too true. my Impact sets 1.275 VCCIO and 1.35V VSA if left to auto rules when running 4133. Frightening numbers for x99.


----------



## Silent Scone

Most CPU should be able to handle 32GB 3200mjz with the right settings / memory


----------



## KedarWolf

i7 [email protected]/4.4 -- CPU Adaptive 1.253v Additional Voltage -- Cache Offset .343/1.212v -- SA Offset .323/1.12v -- CPU Input 1.91v -- LLC 5
32GB (4x8GB) G.Skill 3200 CL14 RAM At 3200Mhz C14-14-14-30-1T 1.36v
HCI MemTest 1000%


----------



## KedarWolf

JPMboy,

Is there other factors that can cause HCI MemTest errors other than memory?

I ask because at 13-13-14-28 1T I'm GSAT stable at 1.42v for memory but im HCI I need 1.45v not to throw up errors. With the exact same settings except for main timings at 14-14-14-30 1T I'm 1000% HCI stable at 1.36v.

It might be because I have tREFI maxed out and tRFC at 278 though. Might need to lower tREFI to 22066 at the higher timings I'm thinking.


----------



## tux1989

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> JPMboy,
> 
> Is there other factors that can cause HCI MemTest errors other than memory?
> 
> I ask because at 13-13-14-28 1T I'm GSAT stable at 1.42v for memory but im HCI I need 1.45v not to throw up errors. With the exact same settings except for main timings at 14-14-14-30 1T I'm 1000% HCI stable at 1.36v.
> 
> It might be because I have tREFI maxed out and tRFC at 278 though. Might need to lower tREFI to 22066 at the higher timings I'm thinking.


Maybe your uncore? IDK


----------



## Silent Scone

If the memory is passing GSAT then it's most likely cache instability. Lower the refresh cycle too regardless of the errors you're getting.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If the memory is passing GSAT then it's most likely cache instability. Lower the refresh cycle too regardless of the errors you're getting.


^^ this.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> JPMboy,
> 
> Is there other factors that can cause HCI MemTest errors other than memory?
> 
> I ask because at 13-13-14-28 1T I'm GSAT stable at 1.42v for memory but im HCI I need 1.45v not to throw up errors. With the exact same settings except for main timings at 14-14-14-30 1T I'm 1000% HCI stable at 1.36v.
> 
> It might be because I have tREFI maxed out and tRFC at 278 though. Might need to lower tREFI to 22066 at the higher timings I'm thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


probably best to bring some of the timings back on the 24/7 reservation (a tREFI that high is really only for benchmarking) set tREFI to auto and tRFC to auto or in the 328 range, note the values and see if the error. most likely it's cache - you are running a very high cache freq...


----------



## Kimir

The tREFI yeah (double of what's set on auto was always fine on my end), but on the tRFC, not so sure... I've had that running as low as 240 HCI stable (with 13-14-13-28 1T 1.38v), also works fine with tRFC at 280/320.
Why 328 exactly and not 320? Is it a multiple of another timing?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> The tREFI yeah (double of what's set on auto was always fine on my end), but on the tRFC, not so sure... I've had that running as low as 240 HCI stable (with 13-14-13-28 1T 1.38v), also works fine with tRFC at 280/320.
> Why 328 exactly and not 320? Is it a multiple of another timing?


lol - I like 328.







(no reason)


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - I like 328.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (no reason)


I like 236 ... I do get a somewhat better Windows "winsat mem" reading


----------



## KedarWolf

After seeing two people say with Cl14 3200 G.Skill kits they went with 13-14-13-29 1T I did too instead of 13-13-14-28 1T which threw of errors right away. Used to be on my 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200 the third timing on higher was the trick to be stable. I thought it was my IMC and would be needed and my new 3200 kit but I was wrong.

Below is what i had to do to get it HCI stable. Voltages a bit too high for my liking though. CPU Input is at 1.95v.













I think I'm going to go with this for my 24/7 settings though, is 1000% HCI stable and the voltages are much lower. My AIDA64 cache and memory tests are only slightly lower than above timings.









Now just to make sure i'm stressapptest stable at the bottom one.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> After seeing two people say with Cl14 3200 G.Skill kits they went with 13-14-13-29 1T I did too instead of 13-13-14-28 1T which threw of errors right away. Used to be on my 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200 the third timing on higher was the trick to be stable. I thought it was my IMC and would be needed and my new 3200 kit but I was wrong.
> 
> Below is what i had to do to get it HCI stable. Voltages a bit too high for my liking though. CPU Input is at 1.95v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to go with this for my 24/7 settings though, is 1000% HCI stable and the voltages are much lower. My AIDA64 cache and memory tests are only slightly lower than above timings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now just to make sure i'm stressapptest stable at the bottom one.


you may want to try a different version of asrock TC... it should report the dram freq correctly with strap 100

also, the free sisoft sandra lite can give more detail about ram performance... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gpMyj43ZFjLUVaV2wxRlN5cEU


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> After seeing two people say with Cl14 3200 G.Skill kits they went with 13-14-13-29 1T I did too instead of 13-13-14-28 1T which threw of errors right away. Used to be on my 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200 the third timing on higher was the trick to be stable. I thought it was my IMC and would be needed and my new 3200 kit but I was wrong.
> 
> Below is what i had to do to get it HCI stable. Voltages a bit too high for my liking though. CPU Input is at 1.95v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to go with this for my 24/7 settings though, is 1000% HCI stable and the voltages are much lower. My AIDA64 cache and memory tests are only slightly lower than above timings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now just to make sure i'm stressapptest stable at the bottom one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you may want to try a different version of asrock TC... it should report the dram freq correctly with strap 100
> 
> also, the free sisoft sandra lite can give more detail about ram performance... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gpMyj43ZFjLUVaV2wxRlN5cEU
Click to expand...

Which version of Asrock and where do I get it. I've tried three different versions, this one is the only one I tried doesn't mess up all the timings, just frequency is wrong.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Which version of Asrock and where do I get it. I've tried three different versions, this one is the only one I tried doesn't mess up all the timings, just frequency is wrong.


i cant find one that will let me change timings on the fly (from any software developer), can you guys all do it on the fly with that TC?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Which version of Asrock and where do I get it. I've tried three different versions, this one is the only one I tried doesn't mess up all the timings, just frequency is wrong.


maybe it's the MB, I'm using the same version you are on the R5E-10.









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






gotta look on my 5960x rig...
yeah - works there too. strange. must be the mb


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> *i cant find one that will let me change timings on the fly* (from any software developer), can you guys all do it on the fly with that TC?


yes. but I don't do that. and it depends on the platform. x99 - yes. z170 - no,


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> maybe it's the MB, I'm using the same version you are on the R5E-10.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gotta look on my 5960x rig...
> yeah - works there too. strange. must be the mb
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes. but I don't do that. and it depends on the platform. x99 - yes. z170 - no,


ah thanks, suspected that but its in the software bundle for a z170 formula OC so i was puzzled...


----------



## KedarWolf

I was checking my RTLs and saw they were higher at the same DRAM CLK Period with 14-14-14-30 1T then 13-14-13-29 1T.

This is them at DRAM CLK Period 11 at the 14-14-14-30 1T

They were 53-51-53-51 14-15-14-15 at 13-14-13-29 1T with lower Timings #2 as well.




They were 53-51-53-51 14-15-14-15 at 13-14-13-29 1T with lower Timings #2 as well.

This is them at DRAM CLK Period 5 HCI MemTest stable at 14-14-14-30 1T.




With these timings below I'm about 1k read slower and 1k write slower than 13-14-13-29 1T in AIDA64 cache and memory test.



But I'm compromising for 24/7 use because I'm running at 1.36v RAM Voltage, .323v Offset System Agent, 1.91v CPU Input and 1.05 VCCIO CPU instead of 1.43v RAM, .343v Offset System Agent,1.95 CPU Input and 1.065v VCCIO CPU.

As well I have my CPU voltage lower at 1.25v instead of 1.26v and and my cache at .340v Adaptive instead of .353v.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> After seeing two people say with Cl14 3200 G.Skill kits they went with 13-14-13-29 1T I did too instead of 13-13-14-28 1T which threw of errors right away. Used to be on my 8x4GB G.Skill 3000 at 3200 the third timing on higher was the trick to be stable. I thought it was my IMC and would be needed and my new 3200 kit but I was wrong.
> 
> Below is what i had to do to get it HCI stable. Voltages a bit too high for my liking though. CPU Input is at 1.95v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to go with this for my 24/7 settings though, is 1000% HCI stable and the voltages are much lower. My AIDA64 cache and memory tests are only slightly lower than above timings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now just to make sure i'm stressapptest stable at the bottom one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you may want to try a different version of asrock TC... it should report the dram freq correctly with strap 100
> 
> also, the free sisoft sandra lite can give more detail about ram performance... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gpMyj43ZFjLUVaV2wxRlN5cEU
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
Click to expand...

Thanks Jpmboy.

By changing my RAM CLK Period to 5 from 11 at 14-14-14-30 1T I gain 5 Ranks in Memory Throughput from Rank 414 to Rank 409.









+1









Edit: Passed an hour of stressapptest tonight.


----------



## Blameless

Grabbed a pair of cheap Team Dark kits with Hynix MFR, for about 32 dollars per 8GiB DIMM. Will see how they do later this week. If I can get 2666 CL 13 or better or 3200 at CL 15, I'll be pretty happy with them.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Grabbed a pair of cheap Team Dark kits with Hynix MFR, for about 32 dollars per 8GiB DIMM. Will see how they do later this week. If I can get 2666 CL 13 or better or 3200 at CL 15, I'll be pretty happy with them.


for that price, I'd be very happy with those results!


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- ASUS X99-A II motherboard -- Titan X (not Pascal) -- 1.2TB Intel 750 PCI-E SSD
i7 [email protected]/4.4 - - CPU Adaptive 1.260v Additional Voltage - -Cache Offset .353/1.225v - - SA Offset .323/1.120v - - CPU Input 1.91v - - LLC5
32GB (4x8GB) G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 CL14 RAM At 3200Mhz C14-14-14-30-1T 1.37v HCI 800%, stressapptest 1 hour.

This is with CLK Period at 5 at 14-14-14-30 1T







AIDA64 Cache And Memory Test.


----------



## Kimir

That seems like alot of SA voltage to me.


----------



## Silent Scone

Considering he had 128GB populating it prior, I'd tend to agree.


----------



## mus1mus

Is 1.45V VDimm too much for you guys' taste?

I find it the sweetspot on my system. 1.4 and I can get into Windows at 3200C13. 1.5 and I can't get better stability. 1.425 works but needs to be tested thoroughly.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> That seems like alot of SA voltage to me.


1.12v is a lot of SA voltage?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Is 1.45V VDimm too much for you guys' taste?
> 
> I find it the sweetspot on my system. 1.4 and I can get into Windows at 3200C13. 1.5 and I can't get better stability. 1.425 works but needs to be tested thoroughly.


I'm not going to tell ya that 1.45V is safe... but I've had this 64gb 3200c14 kit at 1.45V for 3400c13 on the R5E-10/6950X for many months now.
folding 2 TXPs and 10 threads:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Considering he had 128GB populating it prior, I'd tend to agree.


Had to use around the same SA voltage on the 128GB kit as well, seems to be the sweet spot for me on three different kits.


----------



## mus1mus

My 3200C14 and 3333C13-14-13-32-1T can pass HCI and GSAT at +0.001 SA.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> My 3200C14 and 3333C13-14-13-32-1T can pass HCI and GSAT at +0.001 SA.


VCCSA is not just about memory ...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> My 3200C14 and 3333C13-14-13-32-1T can pass HCI and GSAT at +0.001 SA.


Do you need to bump up other voltages to get it to pass RealBench, HCI and AIDA cache stress test?

My other voltages are rather low which I like.









Edit: I mean my RAM and CPU Input voltages.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Do you need to bump up other voltages to get it to pass RealBench, HCI and AIDA cache stress test?
> 
> My other voltages are rather low which I like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I mean my RAM and CPU Input voltages.


Depends on which CPU-related Voltages.









VDIMM is at 1.45 for the reason stated above. VCCIN can go down to 1.8 at 4.6/45/3200C13.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> VCCSA is not just about memory ...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> VCCSA is not just about memory ...


It should be for most of us here, I can leave mine at stock


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It should be for most of us here, I can leave mine at stock


stock varies.. what does it report in bios? .98-something?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It should be for most of us here, I can leave mine at stock
> 
> 
> 
> stock varies.. what does it report in bios? .98-something?
Click to expand...

Mine in BIOS and HWInfo on my X99-A II at Auto using Adaptive/Offset voltages is 1.096v.

On a side note, I was considering getting a 960 Evo and using my 1.2TB Intel 750 as my storage drive but I checked benchmark reviews, not really an improvement over a 750 for a system drive.









Maybe a 512GB 960 Pro if I can afford it.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> stock varies.. what does it report in bios? .98-something?


0.89 on mine.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Mine in BIOS and HWInfo on my X99-A II at Auto using Adaptive/Offset voltages is 1.096v.
> 
> On a side note, I was considering getting a 960 Evo and using my 1.2TB Intel 750 as my storage drive but I checked benchmark reviews, not really an improvement over a 750 for a system drive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a 512GB 960 Pro if I can afford it.


Yeah, Auto VSA should be affected by the CPU, Dram freq and amouint (I hope).
I think you will find very nominal incremental gains switching out a 1.2TB 750 right now. Nothing is that much faster in gaming rig use.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> 0.89 on mine.


lol - unfortunately, I really don;t know what Auto would be on this rig.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It should be for most of us here, I can leave mine at stock


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Yeah, Auto VSA should be affected by the CPU, Dram freq and amouint (I hope).


^^^ This is what I meant


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 0.89 on mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol - unfortunately, I really don;t know what Auto would be on this rig.
Click to expand...

It's actually 0.816V at 0.001 Offset.
At Auto, it's 1.168V








This is at 4700/4500/3200C13.

Scurry!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> It's actually 0.816V at 0.001 Offset.
> At Auto, it's 1.168V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is at 4700/4500/3200C13.
> 
> Scurry!


COnsidering I'm running 3400c13 with 1.45V on 64GB of ram, I think I'll skip the Auto voltage.








I set 0.144V offset in bios, which runs 1.000V in bios and in the OS, and measures at 1.024V via DMM.


----------



## KedarWolf

Got my 128GB kit to 1300% HCI Memtest stable at 1.36v 12-13-12-27 1T 2666MHZ. 4.7GHZ CPU, 4.4GHZ cache. Not posting everything here to be less redundant.

Here's my timings and voltages though.


----------



## Jpmboy

I think it's time Praz put together a little tutorial on OC-socket tweaking and ram.








(Please)


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I think it's time Praz put together a little tutorial on OC-socket tweaking and ram.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Please)


Yeah! During those boring moments he must occasionally experience


----------



## MattBaneLM

How high are you guys happy to push ur Vpp volts?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> How high are you guys happy to push ur Vpp volts?


what's Vpp?


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what's Vpp?


Dram activating power supply or "point to point vram voltage"


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> How high are you guys happy to push ur Vpp volts?


Most DDR4 is very tolerant of VPP, but it doesn't do a lot to most DDR4.

I do run 2.6-2.7 VPP on my Micron ICs, which helps with tighter timings.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Most DDR4 is very tolerant of VPP, but it doesn't do a lot to most DDR4.
> 
> I do run 2.6-2.7 VPP on my Micron ICs, which helps with tighter timings.


ok cool thanks. mine is 2.500 in Bios and 2.560 according to F-Stream. seen others say they have done similar volts to you. has anyone ever done 1.300 or any other voltage that has worried them much??? a concern...?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Dram activating power supply or "point to point vram voltage"


ah.. Activating power... got it.


----------



## Praz

Hello

DDR3 used internal charge pumps for activating row access. DDR4 uses an external voltage (Vpp). This results in lower power requirements and less heat generation.


----------



## Jpmboy

Thanks. I haven't needed or tried any other voltage but Auto (2.5V).


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Thanks. I haven't needed or tried any other voltage but Auto (2.5V).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hello

It is not surprising that auto works without issue. Unlike some other memory voltages that can alter signal integrity VPP is used only to supply gate voltage to the transistors connected to the selected word line. As long as there is sufficient voltage for the length of the word line increasing the voltage brings no benefit.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> It is not surprising that auto works without issue. Unlike some other memory voltages that can alter signal integrity VPP is used only to supply gate voltage to the transistors connected to the selected word line. As long as there is sufficient voltage for the length of the word line increasing the voltage brings no benefit.


Could a stable lower voltage benefit from lower heat & power?


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Could a stable lower voltage benefit from lower heat & power?


Wot he said^
Good question


----------



## Blameless

You should be using the lowest voltage you're sure is stable, but the VPP line doesn't draw enough current to really make much of a power/temp difference.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

This is normal with the same frequency/timings for the ram, as switching from a 6900K to a 6950X to have a gain only in Read with Aida64 Benchmark ?

6900K 4300/3600 => 78k / 80k / 82k

6950X 4400/3800 => 87k / 80k / 83k

Thanks


----------



## mus1mus

Yes. Keeping things the same, the gain may come from a larger Cache on the bigger SKUs.


----------



## tistou77

Okay, thanks
So this is normal

I expect Dominator Platinum 3200 14-14-14 to go to 32GB (if Corsair does it)









And I believe that the capacity of the ram influences the bandwidth


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> And I believe that the capacity of the ram influences the bandwidth


Bandwidth will increase with number of ranks, due to interleaving, but will also be lowered ever so slightly by higher density ICs, due to increased time for tREF.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> It is not surprising that auto works without issue. Unlike some other memory voltages that can alter signal integrity VPP is used only to supply gate voltage to the transistors connected to the selected word line. As long as there is sufficient voltage for the length of the word line increasing the voltage brings no benefit.


^^ *yeah*... what he said.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Hello
> 
> This is normal with the same frequency/timings for the ram, as switching from a 6900K to a 6950X to have a gain only in Read with Aida64 Benchmark ?
> 
> 6900K 4300/3600 => 78k / 80k / 82k
> 
> 6950X 4400/3800 => 87k / 80k / 83k
> 
> Thanks


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Yes. Keeping things the same, the gain may come from a larger Cache on the bigger SKUs.


Not to mention those two extra cores ...


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Could a stable lower voltage benefit from lower heat & power?


Hello

Not worth worrying about. With the exception of IDD5B and IDD7 states the current draw on the Vpp rail is only a few mA. States IDD5B and IDD7 are less than 50mA.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Not worth worrying about. With the exception of IDD5B and IDD7 states the current draw on the Vpp rail is only a few mA. States IDD5B and IDD7 are less than 50mA.


Good to know. Thanks!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> That seems like alot of SA voltage to me.


On my 128GB kit I know have SA at .205 offset with decent voltages for 4.7GHZ CPU/4.4GHZ cache and what voltages I'm using for this double sided Corsair LPX memory.









In HWInfo it SA runs at .995 while running HCI. It's HCI stable but I haven't tested with AIDA64 cache test or RealBench yet.









I have really great timings for 128GB at 2666 and really tight IOLs with 2666MHZ 12-13-12-27 and CLK Period at 8.


----------



## thrgk

Is running 1.274v for my 4.5ghz 5960x not good for 24|7? I know 1.25 would be better but it needs that little extra.
Thanks


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrgk*
> 
> Is running 1.274v for my 4.5ghz 5960x not good for 24|7? I know 1.25 would be better but it needs that little extra.
> Thanks


As long as you keep the temperatures safe, it's fine.


----------



## KedarWolf

Today got home after running HCI 14 hours while i was out, got to 1600% with my 128GB kit at 12-13-12-27 1T.









Got SA voltage down a bit, it runs at 1.088v stress testing and my RAM voltage is at 1.36 running at 1.35v stress testing as well.

With SA lower get memory errors in HCI.

Other voltages are great though!


----------



## Blameless

Used a blow dryer and some creatively ducted flow to get the ambient temperature inside my case to ~55C so I could test tRFC and tREFI more quickly (I wanted my DIMMs at 75C+, under load).

Discovered that I had to loosen tRFC almost to the 260ns spec to always pass my custom _stressapptest_ runs, but that tREFI was solid to at least 2.5x normal. I ended up settling on slightly higher tRFC than absolutely necessary, and 2x normal tREFI.

Used Memtest86 7.1, mostly focusing on the bit-fade and row hammer tests, for about an hour to clear obviously crap settings, then I did _stressapptest -M 15000 -s 7200 -m 12 -C 12 -W_ (this combination seems to load the cache and IMC well, in addition to the memory itself) which I've found to be most prone to failure. After passing that I also did about a dozen more 60 second runs as I was encountering a mode of instability that would pass a standard run, but would cause the system to lock up on occasion when starting the test again after having heated up.

CPU was also reaching within 10C of TJmax during _stressapptest_ with 60C air going into my CLC's radiator, which no doubt helped rule out cache issues. Without augmented intake temperatures the only way I see temps that high are with Prime95 in-place FFTs or LINPACK, neither of which are especially great for testing memory at the same time as core/uncore.

Anyway, I'm as confident as I can get about my 24/7 memory settings and hope to never have to do that again. I also know that if I ever move to Death Valley that I'll die of the heat before my computer does.


----------



## Silent Scone

Grumble


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 
> 
> Grumble


What version are you upgrading from? I thought licences lased at least a whole major release.

Ah nevermind, I keep forgetting it's a subscription period now.


----------



## djgar

I just renewed mine for $25 / 3 Yrs - Black Friday deal!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 
> 
> Grumble


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I just renewed mine for $25 / 3 Yrs - Black Friday deal!


I'm going to avoid checking the mail...


----------



## orlfman

same ram... same processor.... different motherboard...

x99 ultra:


strix x99 gaming:


both boards set to xmp profile. i also noticed on my strix x99 that my ram shows two xmp profiles. ddr4 2400 AND ddr4 2666mhz while the gigabyte board only showed 2400 xmp profile. both have the latest corresponding bios.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orlfman*
> 
> same ram... same processor.... different motherboard...
> 
> both boards set to xmp profile. i also noticed on my strix x99 that my ram shows two xmp profiles. ddr4 2400 AND ddr4 2666mhz while the gigabyte board only showed 2400 xmp profile. both have the latest corresponding bios.


Plenty of timings that aren't usually in XMP profiles that the boards are left to define for themselves.

If you went through and manually set everything, chances are the results would be much closer (though probably still not identical as there are almost always at least a few inaccessible timings).

Still, interesting to see just how different boards can be more or less aggressive with memory settings.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

I am noticing lowered DDR4 write and copy memory speeds when an additional 16gb (2x8gb G.skill 3200mhz) of ram is added to the system. Any input? The attachments show slightly different timings and memory frequencies between the two systems, but up until recently I was running the 16gb at 3200mhz 16-16-16-36 as well.

16gb

cachemem.png 104k .png file


32gb

cachemem2.png 146k .png file


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xGeNeSisx*
> 
> I am noticing lowered DDR4 write and copy memory speeds when an additional 16gb (2x8gb G.skill 3200mhz) of ram is added to the system. Any input? The attachments show slightly different timings and memory frequencies between the two systems, but up until recently I was running the 16gb at 3200mhz 16-16-16-36 as well.
> 
> 16gb
> 
> cachemem.png 104k .png file
> 
> 
> 32gb
> 
> cachemem2.png 146k .png file


You did go from using 2 channels to 4 ... however you should not mix kits as a general rule.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orlfman*
> 
> same ram... same processor.... different motherboard...
> 
> x99 ultra:
> 
> 
> strix x99 gaming:
> 
> 
> both boards set to xmp profile. i also noticed on my strix x99 that my ram shows two xmp profiles. ddr4 2400 AND ddr4 2666mhz while the gigabyte board only showed 2400 xmp profile. both have the latest corresponding bios.


Nice! Lemme guess, you are gonna keep the strix.


----------



## orlfman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Plenty of timings that aren't usually in XMP profiles that the boards are left to define for themselves.
> 
> If you went through and manually set everything, chances are the results would be much closer (though probably still not identical as there are almost always at least a few inaccessible timings).
> 
> Still, interesting to see just how different boards can be more or less aggressive with memory settings.


yeah i figured it was a timing issue with the gigabyte board. before i ran the aida benchmark i loaded up cpu-z and noticed that the trfc was completely different on the asus board in comparison. its amazing how much performance can change with a different board.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice! Lemme guess, you are gonna keep the strix.


yup


----------



## Blameless

Rebuilt my system after a recent move and have been reevaluating my OC with a more demanding test regimen.

Current stable memory settings (at 4.3GHz core, 4.1 uncore):





































Working on tuning down VLs (Gigabyte's manual control over the OC socket functionality) and VPP now.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orlfman*
> 
> same ram... same processor.... different motherboard...
> 
> x99 ultra:
> 
> 
> strix x99 gaming:
> 
> 
> both boards set to xmp profile. i also noticed on my strix x99 that my ram shows two xmp profiles. ddr4 2400 AND ddr4 2666mhz while the gigabyte board only showed 2400 xmp profile. both have the latest corresponding bios.



And this is my non overclocked dual-channel RAM. (with 15-17-17 timings. Hynix MFR.)

I originally thought you made mistake and you are running it in dual channel, because that speed is the same I did with my DDR3 Kingston anniversary edition low voltage on RIV BE. Perhaps 32GB RAM size is a hog, or you need to do some fine tuning.


----------



## EniGma1987

Could anyone try to help me get my RAM stable? I have been trying for months and never could get it stable at anything even remotely close to stock speeds. I have a kit of each of these (they are the same sticks, just different color heatspreaders):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232316
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232445

The ICs are Samsung K4A8G08 on both kits. Motherboard is an ASRock Z170 Extreme 7+. These are single sided 8GB sticks. I realize the board is not rated for 4133 speeds, and even if it were that I wont get that with 4 sticks. I am really only trying to get at least 3600 out of these on this board, but right now I cant even get them stable at all with even 2 sticks and I cant POST at all with 4 sticks installed.

So far, I have tried swapping out the CPU to a different 6700k, and both CPUs have the exact same problem with being unable to get the memory stable. I have tried RMAing one of the RAM kits, and the replacement had the exact same behavior and gets stuck at exactly the same speed, so the problem should not be the RAM sticks themselves.

I read some guides/notes on helping get RAM stable at really high speeds and tried various things from those guides:

I have tried setting TRDWR_sg, TRDWR_dg, TRDWR_rd, and TRDWR_dd to be the same as my tCL and this did not help, in fact it doesn't even POST if I try that.
I have tried setting tRFC to 480, 540, 725, and even 750 and this did not help. (480 was recommended in the guide as being "loose", yet my SPD says they should be 725 for 4133 speeds)
I have tried setting the CH_A and CH_B IO Latency to 21 (my board has both Latency and another line for offset, only the offset can go above 15 so I set the offset to 21), this did not help either.
I tried setting the initial training values for IO Latency and Round Trip Latency according to what the MB tooltip says the calculation should be and this did not help.
I have tried all the way from stock to max volts for VCCIO and VCCSA and these did not help and most of the time at max volts the board will not POST. (Max VCCIO is 1.25, max VCCSA is 1.35v on this board)
I have tried VPP from stock of 2.5 all the way up to 2.8v and it did not help
Tried memory voltage from stock of 1.35 all the way to 1.425v and it didnt help.

So far I am at a complete loss for what to do to get these sticks stable at anything close to stock speeds (4133). Right now the best I can do is 3200MHz stable and only with 2 sticks. With 4 sticks I cant even get 2133MHz stable. 75% of the time or more the system just flat out wont POST. If it does manage to POST then it is stable up to 3600 (with 2 sticks) but again, it wont even POST most of the time, and has never POSTed successfully with all 4 sticks in. Since it seems to hang at POST, but work perfectly stable when it can POST I suspect the problem is with the training and bootup. The motherboard says it supports up to 3866MHz on the memory, so I should be able to get some pretty decent speed even if I cant reach all the way to 4133MHz just yet, but right now the best I can do is 3200







I am hoping to replace the board with something from the Z270 line when they get released in a month or two, but I really want to figure out this stability issue regardless, or at least nail it down to 100% being the motherboard.


----------



## djgar

^^^ Mixing kits is never a good idea unless you spend time individually tuning the sticks ...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Could anyone try to help me get my RAM stable? I have been trying for months and never could get it stable at anything even remotely close to stock speeds. I have a kit of each of these (they are the same just different color heatspreaders):
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232316
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232445
> 
> The ICs are Samsung K4A8G08. Motherboard is an ASRock Z170 Extreme 7+. These are single sided 8GB sticks.
> 
> So far, I have tried swapping out the CPU to a different 6700k, and both CPUs have the exact same problem with being unable to get the memory stable. I have tried RMAing one of the RAM kits, and the replacement had the exact same behavior and gets stuck at exactly the same speed, so the problem should not be the RAM sticks themselves.
> 
> I have tried setting TRDWR_sg, TRDWR_dg, TRDWR_rd, and TRDWR_dd to be the same as my tCL and this did not help, in fact it doesnt even POST if I try that.
> I have tried setting tRFC to 480, 540, 725, and even 750 and this did not help.
> I have tried setting the CH_A and CH_B IO Latency to 21 (my board has both Latency and another line for offset, only the offset can go above 15 so I set the offset to 21), this did not help either.
> I tried setting the initial training values for IO Latency and Round Trip Latency according to what the MB tooltip says the calculation should be and this did not help.
> I have tried all the way from stock to max volts for VCCIO and VCCSA and these did not help and most of the time at max volts the board will not POST. (Max VCCIO is 1.25, max VCCSA is 1.35v on this board)
> I have tried VPP from stock of 2.5 all the way up to 2.8v and it did not help
> Tried memory voltage from stock of 1.35 all the way to 1.425v and it didnt help.
> 
> So far I am at a complete loss for what to do to get these sticks stable at anything close to stock speeds (4133). Right now the best I can do is 3200MHz stable and only with 2 sticks. With 4 sticks I cant even get 2133MHz stable. 75% of the time or more the system just flat out wont POST. If it does manage to POST then it is stable up to 3600 (with 2 sticks) but again, it wont even POST most of the time, and has never POSTed successfully with all 4 sticks in. Since it seems to hang at POST, but work perfectly stable when it can POST I suspect the problem is with the training and bootup. The motherboard says it supports up to 3866MHz on the memory, so I should be able to get some pretty decent speed even if I cant reach all the way to 4133MHz just yet, but right now the best I can do is 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am hoping to replace the board with something from the Z270 line when they get released in a month or two, but I really want to figure out this stability issue regardless, or at least nail it down to 100% being the motherboard.


https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview

Things of note:

The board isn't rated for 4133
Quote:


> *3866+(OC) memory frequency can only be achieved when a single memory module is installed (Single channel memory).
> Please refer to Memory Support List on ASRock's website for more information.


2133 is the stock DRAM frequency on this platform

Mixing two different memory kits is ill advised for majority of users


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Could anyone try to help me get my RAM stable? I have been trying for months and never could get it stable at anything even remotely close to stock speeds. I have a kit of each of these (they are the same just different color heatspreaders):
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232316
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232445
> 
> The ICs are Samsung K4A8G08. Motherboard is an ASRock Z170 Extreme 7+. These are single sided 8GB sticks.
> 
> So far, I have tried swapping out the CPU to a different 6700k, and both CPUs have the exact same problem with being unable to get the memory stable. I have tried RMAing one of the RAM kits, and the replacement had the exact same behavior and gets stuck at exactly the same speed, so the problem should not be the RAM sticks themselves.
> 
> I have tried setting TRDWR_sg, TRDWR_dg, TRDWR_rd, and TRDWR_dd to be the same as my tCL and this did not help, in fact it doesnt even POST if I try that.
> I have tried setting tRFC to 480, 540, 725, and even 750 and this did not help.
> I have tried setting the CH_A and CH_B IO Latency to 21 (my board has both Latency and another line for offset, only the offset can go above 15 so I set the offset to 21), this did not help either.
> I tried setting the initial training values for IO Latency and Round Trip Latency according to what the MB tooltip says the calculation should be and this did not help.
> I have tried all the way from stock to max volts for VCCIO and VCCSA and these did not help and most of the time at max volts the board will not POST. (Max VCCIO is 1.25, max VCCSA is 1.35v on this board)
> I have tried VPP from stock of 2.5 all the way up to 2.8v and it did not help
> Tried memory voltage from stock of 1.35 all the way to 1.425v and it didnt help.
> 
> So far I am at a complete loss for what to do to get these sticks stable at anything close to stock speeds (4133). Right now the best I can do is 3200MHz stable and only with 2 sticks. With 4 sticks I cant even get 2133MHz stable. 75% of the time or more the system just flat out wont POST. If it does manage to POST then it is stable up to 3600 (with 2 sticks) but again, it wont even POST most of the time, and has never POSTed successfully with all 4 sticks in. Since it seems to hang at POST, but work perfectly stable when it can POST I suspect the problem is with the training and bootup. The motherboard says it supports up to 3866MHz on the memory, so I should be able to get some pretty decent speed even if I cant reach all the way to 4133MHz just yet, but right now the best I can do is 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am hoping to replace the board with something from the Z270 line when they get released in a month or two, but I really want to figure out this stability issue regardless, or at least nail it down to 100% being the motherboard.


After reading everything you wrote, it seems you are trying to do so many different things at once, a lot of which are incorrect timings that just will not work.

The first thing to do, is reset your bios back to factory defaults and just put in one of the kits, so you are just running on two dimms from the same batch.

Then download Thaiphoon Burner from the following link, run it and do an SPD Read on both Dimms and post up the screens, so we can verify what IC's you have, whether they are E-Die or B-Die, so as to then be able to overclock the memory, with the correct timings suited to the appropriate IC.

Once you have done that, then we'll go onto getting it to run at somewhere between 3600mhz to 3866mhz, depending on how tight we can set the timings for your board and IMC of your 6700K. Forget trying to run 4000mhz or above on your 4 DIMM board, you will never get it stable with tight timings. You really need a 2 DIMM board to run 4000mhz or higher, for stable tight timings. And even if you could get 4000mhz at looser timings on your current board, it will be slower than running at 3866 with tighter timings, so there is no point.

Also if you can please post up screenshots of all your bios screens that are for DRAM settings and VOLTAGE settings, so I can see all the options you have, as every board is different and some have more options than others.

Thaiphoon - http://www.softnology.biz/files.html


----------



## BotSkill

And another thing to take in consideration: Asrock is not verry good at overclocking 4 sticks of ram. Asrock is very good on ram oc when using 2 memory slots only. When using al 4 of them, 3600+ on memory is verry hard/ imposible. That is Asus teritory with T-Topology. But not even Asus doesn't do verry well over 3600MHZ. Maybe Kaby Lake + Z270 will bring some improvements.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Could anyone try to help me get my RAM stable? I have been trying for months and never could get it stable at anything even remotely close to stock speeds. I have a kit of each of these (they are the same just different color heatspreaders):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232316
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232445
> 
> The ICs are Samsung K4A8G08. Motherboard is an ASRock Z170 Extreme 7+. These are single sided 8GB sticks.
> 
> So far, I have tried swapping out the CPU to a different 6700k, and both CPUs have the exact same problem with being unable to get the memory stable. I have tried RMAing one of the RAM kits, and the replacement had the exact same behavior and gets stuck at exactly the same speed, so the problem should not be the RAM sticks themselves.
> 
> I have tried setting TRDWR_sg, TRDWR_dg, TRDWR_rd, and TRDWR_dd to be the same as my tCL and this did not help, in fact it doesnt even POST if I try that.
> I have tried setting tRFC to 480, 540, 725, and even 750 and this did not help.
> I have tried setting the CH_A and CH_B IO Latency to 21 (my board has both Latency and another line for offset, only the offset can go above 15 so I set the offset to 21), this did not help either.
> I tried setting the initial training values for IO Latency and Round Trip Latency according to what the MB tooltip says the calculation should be and this did not help.
> I have tried all the way from stock to max volts for VCCIO and VCCSA and these did not help and most of the time at max volts the board will not POST. (Max VCCIO is 1.25, max VCCSA is 1.35v on this board)
> I have tried VPP from stock of 2.5 all the way up to 2.8v and it did not help
> Tried memory voltage from stock of 1.35 all the way to 1.425v and it didnt help.
> 
> So far I am at a complete loss for what to do to get these sticks stable at anything close to stock speeds (4133). Right now the best I can do is 3200MHz stable and only with 2 sticks. With 4 sticks I cant even get 2133MHz stable. 75% of the time or more the system just flat out wont POST. If it does manage to POST then it is stable up to 3600 (with 2 sticks) but again, it wont even POST most of the time, and has never POSTed successfully with all 4 sticks in. Since it seems to hang at POST, but work perfectly stable when it can POST I suspect the problem is with the training and bootup. The motherboard says it supports up to 3866MHz on the memory, so I should be able to get some pretty decent speed even if I cant reach all the way to 4133MHz just yet, but right now the best I can do is 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am hoping to replace the board with something from the Z270 line when they get released in a month or two, but I really want to figure out this stability issue regardless, or at least nail it down to 100% being the motherboard.


hey man, as everyone has said, mixing kits is hit or miss, or requires a lot of tuning. The E7 should be able to run 3600 without much problem... as advised earlier, clrcmos, power off and load the sticks such that each kit is on one channel. post to bios. POst back to bios and enter 1.3V for 2133 and check stability - just a quick test with AID64 or something. then POst back to bios, set 3600 c16-18-44-2t with 1.35V. If it can't boot, or boots but fails a simple stability test... you have your work cut out for you.








Best thing to do at that point is either invest a ton of time to tweak settings or sell the kits and get a single 32GB z170 kit in the 3200-3866 range (any with flat primary timings eg, 16-16-16-42-2T, preferably one that is on the E7 QVL list.


----------



## lilchronic

Update

z170M oc formula

lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.45v---SA 1.25v---HCI 1000%
Tight


lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---4000Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.5v---SA 1.3v---HCI 1000%
loose


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> After reading everything you wrote, it seems you are trying to do so many different things at once, a lot of which are incorrect timings that just will not work.
> 
> The first thing to do, is reset your bios back to factory defaults and just put in one of the kits, so you are just running on two dimms from the same batch.
> 
> Then download Thaiphoon Burner from the following link, run it and do an SPD Read on both Dimms and post up the screens, so we can verify what IC's you have, whether they are E-Die or B-Die, so as to then be able to overclock the memory, with the correct timings suited to the appropriate IC.
> 
> Once you have done that, then we'll go onto getting it to run at somewhere between 3600mhz to 3866mhz, depending on how tight we can set the timings for your board and IMC of your 6700K. Forget trying to run 4000mhz or above on your 4 DIMM board, you will never get it stable with tight timings. You really need a 2 DIMM board to run 4000mhz or higher, for stable tight timings. And even if you could get 4000mhz at looser timings on your current board, it will be slower than running at 3866 with tighter timings, so there is no point.
> 
> Also if you can please post up screenshots of all your bios screens that are for DRAM settings and VOLTAGE settings, so I can see all the options you have, as every board is different and some have more options than others.
> 
> Thaiphoon - http://www.softnology.biz/files.html


Here are the exports from each of the kits. Note that I am only running a single kit at a time, not all 4 sticks installed. I swapped the kits to get these dumps


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Prepared by Thaiphoon Burner Super Blaster
> 
> MEMORY MODULE
> 
> Manufacturer : G.Skill
> Part Number : F4-4133C19-8GTZA
> Serial Number : 00000000
> JEDEC DIMM Label : 8GB 1Rx8 PC4-2133-UA1-11
> Architecture : DDR4 SDRAM UDIMM
> Speed Grade : DDR4-2133
> Capacity : 8192 MB (8 components)
> Organization : 1024M x64 (1 rank)
> Register Manufacturer : N/A
> Register Model : N/A
> Manufacturing Date : Undefined
> Manufacturing Location : Taipei, Taiwan
> Revision / Raw Card : 0000h / A1 (8 layers)
> 
> DRAM COMPONENTS
> 
> Manufacturer : Samsung
> Part Number : K4A8G085WB-BCPB
> Package : Standard Monolithic 78-ball FBGA
> Die Density / Die Count : 8 Gb - 20 nm / 1 die
> Composition : 1024M x8 (64M x8 x 16 banks)
> Clock Frequency : 1067 MHz (0.938 ns)
> Minimum Timing Delays : 15-15-15-36-50
> Read Latencies Supported : 16T, 15T, 14T, 13T, 12T, 11T, 10T
> Supply Voltage : 1.20 V
> XMP Certified : 2070 MHz / 19-21-21-41-62 / 1.35 V
> XMP Extreme : Not programmed
> SPD Revision : 1.1 / September 2015
> XMP Revision : 2.0 / December 2013
> 
> THERMAL SENSOR
> 
> Manufacturer : Giantec
> Model : GT34TS04
> Revision : 01h
> Sensor Status : Enabled
> EVENT Output Control : Disabled
> Temperature Accuracy : B-Grade
> Temperature Resolution : 0.2500°C
> Current Temperature : 29.750°C
> Negative Measurements : Supported
> Interrupt Capability : Supported
> 
> SOURCE SPD DUMP
> 
> 000 23 11 0C 02 85 21 00 08 00 60 00 03 01 03 00 00
> 010 00 00 08 0D F8 03 00 00 6E 6E 6E 11 08 76 F0 0A
> 020 20 08 00 05 00 A8 1E 2B 2E 00 78 00 14 3C 00 00
> 030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 16 36 16 36
> 040 16 36 16 36 00 00 16 36 16 36 16 36 16 36 00 00
> 050 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 070 00 00 00 00 00 83 B5 CE 00 00 00 00 E7 C2 2D 24
> 080 11 11 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 090 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1C A0
> 100 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 110 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 120 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 130 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 140 04 CD 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 46 34 2D 34 31 33 33
> 150 43 31 39 2D 38 47 54 5A 41 00 00 00 00 00 80 CE
> 160 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 170 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 8E CF
> 180 0C 4A 05 20 00 00 00 00 00 A3 00 00 04 00 10 00
> 190 00 49 51 51 00 9E EF F0 0A 20 08 00 05 00 C0 1C
> 1A0 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B9 EE EE CC EF
> 1B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


Quote:


> Prepared by Thaiphoon Burner Super Blaster
> 
> MEMORY MODULE
> 
> Manufacturer : G.Skill
> Part Number : F4-4133C19-8GTZKW
> Serial Number : 00000000
> JEDEC DIMM Label : 8GB 1Rx8 PC4-2133-UA1-11
> Architecture : DDR4 SDRAM UDIMM
> Speed Grade : DDR4-2133
> Capacity : 8192 MB (8 components)
> Organization : 1024M x64 (1 rank)
> Register Manufacturer : N/A
> Register Model : N/A
> Manufacturing Date : Undefined
> Manufacturing Location : Taipei, Taiwan
> Revision / Raw Card : 0000h / A1 (8 layers)
> 
> DRAM COMPONENTS
> 
> Manufacturer : Samsung
> Part Number : K4A8G085WB-BCPB
> Package : Standard Monolithic 78-ball FBGA
> Die Density / Die Count : 8 Gb - 20 nm / 1 die
> Composition : 1024M x8 (64M x8 x 16 banks)
> Clock Frequency : 1067 MHz (0.938 ns)
> Minimum Timing Delays : 15-15-15-36-50
> Read Latencies Supported : 16T, 15T, 14T, 13T, 12T, 11T, 10T
> Supply Voltage : 1.20 V
> XMP Certified : 2070 MHz / 19-21-21-41-62 / 1.35 V
> XMP Extreme : Not programmed
> SPD Revision : 1.1 / September 2015
> XMP Revision : 2.0 / December 2013
> 
> THERMAL SENSOR
> 
> Manufacturer : Giantec
> Model : GT34TS04
> Revision : 01h
> Sensor Status : Enabled
> EVENT Output Control : Disabled
> Temperature Accuracy : B-Grade
> Temperature Resolution : 0.2500°C
> Current Temperature : 32.250°C
> Negative Measurements : Supported
> Interrupt Capability : Supported
> 
> SOURCE SPD DUMP
> 
> 000 23 11 0C 02 85 21 00 08 00 60 00 03 01 03 00 00
> 010 00 00 08 0D F8 03 00 00 6E 6E 6E 11 08 76 F0 0A
> 020 20 08 00 05 00 A8 1E 2B 2E 00 78 00 14 3C 00 00
> 030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 16 36 16 36
> 040 16 36 16 36 00 00 16 36 16 36 16 36 16 36 00 00
> 050 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 070 00 00 00 00 00 83 B5 CE 00 00 00 00 E7 C2 2D 24
> 080 11 11 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 090 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 0F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1C A0
> 100 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 110 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 120 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 130 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 140 04 CD 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 46 34 2D 34 31 33 33
> 150 43 31 39 2D 38 47 54 5A 4B 57 00 00 00 00 80 CE
> 160 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 170 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 8E CF
> 180 0C 4A 05 20 00 00 00 00 00 A3 00 00 04 00 10 00
> 190 00 49 51 51 00 9E EF F0 0A 20 08 00 05 00 C0 1C
> 1A0 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B9 EE EE CC EF
> 1B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 1F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00






They are the exact same sticks of RAM, the only difference is that one has red heatspreaders and one has black heatpsreaders. And here are screenshots from the bios. This is what I am currently running them at. Two sticks are 100% stable like this. Any higher than 3200 and they do not post more than half the time. When they do post, stability is 100%, but it is just that most of the time it wont post. So I still feel like it is a training issue and setting of the auto timings. It should be do-able to get them stable which is why I want to try. Again, that is only running 2 sticks though. I am shooting for stable with 4 sticks at somewhere around 3400-3600.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> snip
> then POst back to bios, set 3600 c16-18-44-2t with 1.35V. If it can't boot, or boots but fails a simple stability test... you have your work cut out for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snip


It wont POST most of the time at those settings, only 1 in 7 boots when I tested it today (using 2 sticks same as always, not even trying 4 sticks till I can get the two stable and able to POST 100%). The problem arises above 3300MHz with the whole no POST more than half the time thing going on.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Here are the exports from each of the kits. Note that I am only running a single kit at a time, not all 4 sticks installed. I swapped the kits to get these dumps
> 
> They are the exact same sticks of RAM, the only difference is that one has red heatspreaders and one has black heatpsreaders. And here are screenshots from the bios. This is what I am currently running them at. Two sticks are 100% stable like this. Any higher than 3200 and they do not post more than half the time. When they do post, stability is 100%, but it is just that most of the time it wont post. So I still feel like it is a training issue and setting of the auto timings. It should be do-able to get them stable which is why I want to try. Again, that is only running 2 sticks though. I am shooting for stable with 4 sticks at somewhere around 3400-3600.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


We understand they're the same model sticks, but they were not binned together as they would have been when you buy a four-stick kit, so they can be quite different in their characteristics - that's what we are referring to.


----------



## Voodoo Jungle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> so they can be quite different in their characteristics - that's what we are referring to.


They are all absolutely identical on DRAM components, PCB design (Raw Card A1), SPD and XMP 2.0 profiles. According to the XMP settings, it can be applied when 2 DIMMs are populated. It is not possible to apply it for 4 DIMMs in the system. IMC hangs while DRAM training at POST. Besides, K4A8G085WB-BCPB are related to DDR4-2133 parts. Higher frequencies are achieved by over-clocking with no guarantee.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Here are the exports from each of the kits. Note that I am only running a single kit at a time, not all 4 sticks installed. I swapped the kits to get these dumps
> 
> They are the exact same sticks of RAM, the only difference is that one has red heatspreaders and one has black heatpsreaders. And here are screenshots from the bios. This is what I am currently running them at. Two sticks are 100% stable like this. Any higher than 3200 and they do not post more than half the time. When they do post, stability is 100%, but it is just that most of the time it wont post. So I still feel like it is a training issue and setting of the auto timings. It should be do-able to get them stable which is why I want to try. Again, that is only running 2 sticks though. I am shooting for stable with 4 sticks at somewhere around 3400-3600.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wont POST most of the time at those settings, only 1 in 7 boots when I tested it today (using 2 sticks same as always, not even trying 4 sticks till I can get the two stable and able to POST 100%). The problem arises above 3300MHz with the whole no POST more than half the time thing going on.


Read my post again. If you can't even read the specifications for the motherboard you own, the rest is going to be difficult for you. There is a very good reason Asrock have stated 3866 is only supported with one DIMM installed. I strongly advise you read the link to ROG regarding this topic that I gave you...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Voodoo Jungle*
> 
> *They are all absolutely identical on DRAM components*, PCB design (Raw Card A1), SPD and XMP 2.0 profiles. According to the XMP settings, it can be applied when 2 DIMMs are populated. It is not possible to apply it for 4 DIMMs in the system. IMC hangs while DRAM training at POST. Besides, K4A8G085WB-BCPB are related to DDR4-2133 parts. Higher frequencies are achieved by over-clocking with no guarantee.


yep, this is the case. The components are the same, but all 4sticks have not been selected so that they will work together at the rated speed. G.Skill will not guarantee that mixed kits will work at their rated sped when combined. The analogy is.. all 5820K CPU are the exact same components, pcb etc.. but as we all know, not all 5820Ks are "the same".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Update
> 
> z170M oc formula
> 
> lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.45v---SA 1.25v---HCI 1000%
> Tight
> 
> 
> lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---4000Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.5v---SA 1.3v---HCI 1000%
> loose


Hey bro - post the CPUz SPD tab.. which stick are those?


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Read my post again. If you can't even read the specifications for the motherboard you own, the rest is going to be difficult for you. There is a very good reason Asrock have stated 3866 is only supported with one DIMM installed. I strongly advise you read the link to ROG regarding this topic that I gave you...


Read my posts again? I never said I am trying to run 4 sticks at 4133MHz. I am only trying to reach 4 sticks stable at 3400 or maybe 3600 at best if possible. I already know the specs of my motherboard very well including the memory support page that lists only up to 3600 for 2 sticks and 3866 is with 1 stick. In two days now of asking for help I have seen two posts actually doing so and the rest are a lot of complaining about "its hard " and not a lot of suggestions or help at all.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Read my posts again? I never said I am trying to run 4 sticks at 4133MHz. I am only trying to reach 4 sticks stable at 3400 or maybe 3600 at best if possible. I already know the specs of my motherboard very well including the memory support page that lists only up to 3600 for 2 sticks and 3866 is with 1 stick. In two days now of asking for help I have seen two posts actually doing so and the rest are a lot of complaining about "its hard " and not a lot of suggestions or help at all.


IDK man, maybe that asrock board is behaving like other 4 slots boards but at lower frequencies:

_ISSUE #1: I can't go over DDR4-3600 on Maximus 4-dimm boards
Encountered this while trying to bench Samsung D-die and E-die with tertiary on auto using Maximus VIII Gene and Extreme . The culprit to blame are TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd . When going higher than 3600 these need to be set on same level as CAS value otherwise board will give you a nice 55 POST CODE to look at. This is not true for Impact because Impact cand handle lower values and higher speeds so it will have no problem booting 4133 on AUTO.
Websmile was first to notice so I give him credit for this._

from:
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427

I can tell ya this makes all the difference on ASUS 4-dimms boards when running 3600 or higher.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> IDK man, maybe that asrock board is behaving like other 4 slots boards but at lower frequencies:
> 
> _ISSUE #1: I can't go over DDR4-3600 on Maximus 4-dimm boards
> Encountered this while trying to bench Samsung D-die and E-die with tertiary on auto using Maximus VIII Gene and Extreme . The culprit to blame are TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd . When going higher than 3600 these need to be set on same level as CAS value otherwise board will give you a nice 55 POST CODE to look at. This is not true for Impact because Impact cand handle lower values and higher speeds so it will have no problem booting 4133 on AUTO.
> Websmile was first to notice so I give him credit for this._
> 
> from:
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
> 
> I can tell ya this makes all the difference on ASUS 4-dimms boards when running 3600 or higher.


Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately I already tried that and if I set those to the same as my CAS the board will not post at all, even at 2133 speeds. I read through that thread you linked a couple times as well as any others I could find







Though, that did just give me an idea while I was typing this. Setting TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd to my CAS did not post and setting them to even higher at 21 did not post either. But when I get home I will try changing my CAS to something else, 20 instead of 19. Then try setting TRDWR_sg TRDWR_dg and TRDWR_dr + TRDWR_dd to 20 as well. Ill see if that works.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Read my posts again? I never said I am trying to run 4 sticks at 4133MHz. I am only trying to reach 4 sticks stable at 3400 or maybe 3600 at best if possible. I already know the specs of my motherboard very well including the memory support page that lists only up to 3600 for 2 sticks and 3866 is with 1 stick. In two days now of asking for help I have seen two posts actually doing so and the rest are a lot of complaining about "its hard " and not a lot of suggestions or help at all.


There is no magic bullet with these things, so what is deemed helpful is how you perceive it. So, once again, the article I linked you shows why mixing kits (even if attempting slightly lower ratios) is not recommended by vendors.

Just in case anything gets lost in translation, the only person finding things hard, is you. Because you don't understand what is happening, or how GSKILL bin their kits.

If you want help that will get you any where fast, accept the fact that tunning 4 DIMMs from two kits is outside your capability, and work with one kit.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> There is no magic bullet with these things, so what is deemed helpful is how you perceive it. So, once again, the article I linked you shows why mixing kits (even if attempting slightly lower ratios) is not recommended by vendors.


Yes, I have read it. 3 times actually. Once about 5 months ago, once last week when I got the 2nd kit of memory, and I skimmed it again when you posted it to make sure I didn't miss anything. I guess we both just took very different things away from that thread.

I have read every thread and random post I could find on the subject trying to get these stable before I came here. I am looking for suggestions on things to try and tricks that have been found and to bounce ideas off trying to get these stable. Not getting much of that though.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Here are the exports from each of the kits. Note that I am only running a single kit at a time, not all 4 sticks installed. I swapped the kits to get these dumps
> 
> They are the exact same sticks of RAM, the only difference is that one has red heatspreaders and one has black heatpsreaders. And here are screenshots from the bios. This is what I am currently running them at. Two sticks are 100% stable like this. Any higher than 3200 and they do not post more than half the time. When they do post, stability is 100%, but it is just that most of the time it wont post. So I still feel like it is a training issue and setting of the auto timings. It should be do-able to get them stable which is why I want to try. Again, that is only running 2 sticks though. I am shooting for stable with 4 sticks at somewhere around 3400-3600.
> 
> It wont POST most of the time at those settings, only 1 in 7 boots when I tested it today (using 2 sticks same as always, not even trying 4 sticks till I can get the two stable and able to POST 100%). The problem arises above 3300MHz with the whole no POST more than half the time thing going on.


Thanks for posting up the screenshots. Ok lets start at the beginning.

1) Just install only 2 Dimms, from the same kit.

2) Reset your bios back to factory defaults, so all your changes are gone and everything is back to AUTO, then set only the following in each step..

3) Set your DRAM Frequency to 3600mhz

4) Set your primary timings to :

tCL - 16
tRCD - 16
tRP - 16
tRAS - 36
CR - 1

5) Set only the following secondary timing :

tRFC - 450

6) Leave all other timings at AUTO

7) Set your voltage as follows :

DRAM Voltage - 1.35 volts
VCCIO Voltage - 1.2 volts
VCCSA Voltage - 1.2 volts

8) Save your bios settings and reboot and see if it successfully completes training and boots into Windows. If it does, then load the Asrock Timing Calculator and post a screenshot, so we can see what your board has set everything too.

9) If it fails to pass training and doesn't boot, then see what error code you get on the boards LED display, if its code 55, then increase your DRAM Voltage to 1.40 volts and reboot and see it it passes then.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yep, this is the case. The components are the same, but all 4sticks have not been selected so that they will work together at the rated speed. G.Skill will not guarantee that mixed kits will work at their rated sped when combined. The analogy is.. all 5820K CPU are the exact same components, pcb etc.. but as we all know, not all 5820Ks are "the same".
> Hey bro - post the CPUz SPD tab.. which stick are those?


G.Skill Trident Z 3600Mhz CL16 2x8GB


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z 3600Mhz CL16 2x8GB


yeah - that's a great kit. I sold mine to mlrklrk88 ( or what ever his UN is







)


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z 3600Mhz CL16 2x8GB


Hello

I run 2 sets of those at 3400Mhz/14-14-14, 3200MHz/13/13/13 and 2666/11-11-11 at 1.35V memory voltage. Can't really hope for better than that.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Voodoo Jungle*
> 
> They are all absolutely identical on DRAM components, PCB design (Raw Card A1), SPD and XMP 2.0 profiles. According to the XMP settings, it can be applied when 2 DIMMs are populated. It is not possible to apply it for 4 DIMMs in the system. IMC hangs while DRAM training at POST. Besides, K4A8G085WB-BCPB are related to DDR4-2133 parts. Higher frequencies are achieved by over-clocking with no guarantee.


Yes, identical components (except for the color







) but the internal characteristics of the two kits were not selected to behave similarly as a unit, hence the problems, as has been explained in several posts.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Voodoo Jungle*
> 
> They are all absolutely identical on DRAM components, PCB design (Raw Card A1), SPD and XMP 2.0 profiles. According to the XMP settings, it can be applied when 2 DIMMs are populated. It is not possible to apply it for 4 DIMMs in the system. IMC hangs while DRAM training at POST. Besides, K4A8G085WB-BCPB are related to DDR4-2133 parts. Higher frequencies are achieved by over-clocking with no guarantee.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, identical components (except for the color
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) but the internal characteristics of the two kits were not selected to behave similarly as a unit, hence the problems, as has been explained in several posts.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I may have seen them say they are not running both kits together, but running them separately.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Here are the exports from each of the kits. Note that I am only running a single kit at a time, not all 4 sticks installed. I swapped the kits to get these dumps
> 
> They are the exact same sticks of RAM, the only difference is that one has red heatspreaders and one has black heatpsreaders. And here are screenshots from the bios. This is what I am currently running them at. Two sticks are 100% stable like this. Any higher than 3200 and they do not post more than half the time. When they do post, stability is 100%, but it is just that most of the time it wont post. So I still feel like it is a training issue and setting of the auto timings. It should be do-able to get them stable which is why I want to try. Again, that is only running 2 sticks though. *I am shooting for stable with 4 sticks at somewhere around 3400-3600*.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wont POST most of the time at those settings, only 1 in 7 boots when I tested it today (using 2 sticks same as always, not even trying 4 sticks till I can get the two stable and able to POST 100%). The problem arises above 3300MHz with the whole no POST more than half the time thing going on.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I may have seen them say they are not running both kits together, but running them separately.


He's been trying several configurations but his endgame is 4 sticks


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I run 2 sets of those at 3400Mhz/14-14-14, 3200MHz/13/13/13 and 2666/11-11-11 at 1.35V memory voltage. Can't really hope for better than that.


Yeah these run 3600Mhz 15-15-15-35-1T @ 1.35v no problem. Just set xmp and change primary's to 15-15-15-35-1T.

I was even able to run that with manually tight secondaries and thirds with the same 1.35v for about 900% in hci memtest

......This is the 3600Mhz 16-16-16-36-2t kit thought you picked up the 3600Mhz cl 15 kit


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah these run 3600Mhz 15-15-15-35-1T @ 1.35v no problem. Just set xmp and change primary's to 15-15-15-35-1T.
> 
> I was even able to run that with manually tight secondaries and thirds with the same 1.35v for about 900% in hci memtest
> 
> ......This is the 3600Mhz 16-16-16-36-2t kit thought you picked up the 3600Mhz cl 15 kit


I'm sure he has more than one kit.








anyway - I have the 3600c15 2x8GB kit - runs great too. That's why I sold the 3600c16s.


----------



## MR-e

Hey guys, I have 2x 3600C15 kits. What's the going rate to off load them? My 5960X IMC may be a dud, but most likely, I just can't tune it right to utilize the full performance of the ram. Might be better picking up a different kit than this wasted potential. I picked them up for about $500 CAD back in June if that's relevant.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MR-e*
> 
> Hey guys, I have 2x 3600C15 kits. What's the going rate to off load them? My 5960X IMC may be a dud, but most likely, I just can't tune it right to utilize the full performance of the ram. Might be better picking up a different kit than this wasted potential. I picked them up for about $500 CAD back in June if that's relevant.


those 3600c16 2x8GB Trident kits go for $185 new right now...


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Thanks for posting up the screenshots. Ok lets start at the beginning.
> 
> 1) Just install only 2 Dimms, from the same kit.
> 
> 2) Reset your bios back to factory defaults, so all your changes are gone and everything is back to AUTO, then set only the following in each step..
> 
> 3) Set your DRAM Frequency to 3600mhz
> 
> 4) Set your primary timings to :
> 
> tCL - 16
> tRCD - 16
> tRP - 16
> tRAS - 36
> CR - 1
> 
> 5) Set only the following secondary timing :
> 
> tRFC - 450
> 
> 6) Leave all other timings at AUTO
> 
> 7) Set your voltage as follows :
> 
> DRAM Voltage - 1.35 volts
> VCCIO Voltage - 1.2 volts
> VCCSA Voltage - 1.2 volts
> 
> 8) Save your bios settings and reboot and see if it successfully completes training and boots into Windows. If it does, then load the Asrock Timing Calculator and post a screenshot, so we can see what your board has set everything too.
> 
> 9) If it fails to pass training and doesn't boot, then see what error code you get on the boards LED display, if its code 55, then increase your DRAM Voltage to 1.40 volts and reboot and see it it passes then.


Still having problems at anything over 3200. I am just going to adjust my "hopeful target" to the 3200 speed (with 4 sticks in the end) and live with that. It has been what I have been running with the 2 sticks for months now anyway so it isn't really a loss.

2 stick testing:
16-16-16-36-1T is good to go at DDR3200
Higher speed is not POSTing, and only rarely is the error code 55. Mostly it is 19, sometimes it is 32, sometimes 35, sometimes 3F. I went ahead and tried higher DRAM Voltage anyway but it did not help.
I then tried loosening timings to 16-18-18-40 and this did not help. Neither did 18-18-18-40. DDR3200 just seems like it is the max the board wants to run anymore. Not sure how I got it to POST higher rarely before but it doesnt seem to want to do it anymore.

One very odd thing I found was that when attempting to use the settings you suggested I could not change VCCIO to anything over 1.135v, otherwise I cannot POST no matter what speed. For some reason the board or CPU will not accept higher than 1.135v

4 stick testing:
Since I have 100% stability with the two sticks, albeit at a slightly slower speed than I originally wanted, I decided to move on to trying to get all 4 sticks to POST. Through a bunch of tweaking, 1 timing per boot/test of course, I was able to loosen my timings and raise voltages enough to get the board to POST with all 4 sticks at 2133 speed.
I continued adjusting timings and voltages and managed to get the computer 100% stable with 4 sticks at DDR3066 now. Timings are very loose of course at the moment but I will be trying to increase speed to 3200 and tighten timings throughout this weekend.. Here are some screenshots of how it is currently:



Again, extremely loose timings right now. Do you have any suggestions for what to start with to try for 3200 with the 4 sticks now?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> those 3600c16 2x8GB Trident kits go for $185 new right now...


155$ for 3600Mhz CL16
185$ for 3600Mhz CL15.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> ......This is the 3600Mhz 16-16-16-36-2t kit thought you picked up the 3600Mhz cl 15 kit


Hello

The specs I wrote are for the CAS15 kits. I have quite a few and they all are capable of those settings. I have the CAS16 kits also and they will do the same at 3200MHz and 3400MHz with the same timings but need more voltage. For 2x8GB kits the G.Skill 3200MHz CAS14 and 3600MHz CAS15 are really the best for money spent currently.


----------



## Blameless

New set of Ballistix Sport are junk relative to my original set. Same ICs from what I can tell, but two years has evidently given Micron enough time to refine their binning process and make sure cheapskates like me don't wind up with good ICs.

Still, 17 dollars per 4GiB DIMM isn't bad.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Still having problems at anything over 3200. I am just going to adjust my "hopeful target" to the 3200 speed (with 4 sticks in the end) and live with that. It has been what I have been running with the 2 sticks for months now anyway so it isn't really a loss.
> 
> 2 stick testing:
> 16-16-16-36-1T is good to go at DDR3200
> Higher speed is not POSTing, and only rarely is the error code 55. Mostly it is 19, sometimes it is 32, sometimes 35, sometimes 3F. I went ahead and tried higher DRAM Voltage anyway but it did not help.
> I then tried loosening timings to 16-18-18-40 and this did not help. Neither did 18-18-18-40. DDR3200 just seems like it is the max the board wants to run anymore. Not sure how I got it to POST higher rarely before but it doesnt seem to want to do it anymore.
> 
> One very odd thing I found was that when attempting to use the settings you suggested I could not change VCCIO to anything over 1.135v, otherwise I cannot POST no matter what speed. For some reason the board or CPU will not accept higher than 1.135v
> 
> 4 stick testing:
> Since I have 100% stability with the two sticks, albeit at a slightly slower speed than I originally wanted, I decided to move on to trying to get all 4 sticks to POST. Through a bunch of tweaking, 1 timing per boot/test of course, I was able to loosen my timings and raise voltages enough to get the board to POST with all 4 sticks at 2133 speed.
> I continued adjusting timings and voltages and managed to get the computer 100% stable with 4 sticks at DDR3066 now. Timings are very loose of course at the moment but I will be trying to increase speed to 3200 and tighten timings throughout this weekend.. Here are some screenshots of how it is currently:
> 
> Again, extremely loose timings right now. Do you have any suggestions for what to start with to try for 3200 with the 4 sticks now?


It is very strange that you cannot increase your VCCIO voltage any higher than 1.135 volts. I have never seen that before. Is it the same with VCCSA voltage ?

Without being able to increase your VCCIO past 1.135 volts, this is the main reason why you are unable to overclock your memory to anything higher than 3200mhz.. Every Z170 board I have ever used, has been able to set the VCCIO to between 1.2-1.5 volts without any problems.

What bios version are you running on your board ?

If you are not running on the latest version, then update to the latest version and then see if you are able to set your VCCIO to 1.2 volts.

If you are already on the latest bios, then flash your bios again with the latest firmware, incase for some reason it has become corrupt and that is why it is doing strange things, such as not letting you raise the VCCIO voltage.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Wot he said^^ ????


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> 155$ for 3600Mhz CL16
> 185$ for 3600Mhz CL15.


yeh - you're right, I was looking at the c15s.

anyway - off topic... I figured wth, had an air cooled 1080 on the shelf so I stuck it on the R5E10 with 2 WC'd TXPs and let it fold overnight (it's cold enough here now for this







)


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> New set of Ballistix Sport are junk relative to my original set. Same ICs from what I can tell, but two years has evidently given Micron enough time to refine their binning process and make sure cheapskates like me don't wind up with good ICs.
> 
> Still, 17 dollars per 4GiB DIMM isn't bad.


I have crucial micron chips. One stick can do 3400Mjz another can do 3333Mhz while the other two can only get up to 3000Mhz and 2800Mhz max frequency for each stick.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I have crucial micron chips. One stick can do 3400Mjz another can do 3333Mhz while the other two can only get up to 3000Mhz and 2800Mhz max frequency for each stick.


None of mine will do past 2800 or so, but the earlier sticks will do tighter timings at higher clocks than the newer ones.

There also appears to be a weak DIMM in my latest kit, same address is failing if I increase tREFI at all, and this is in relatively cool temps in Memtest86 7.1...doesn't bode well for more demanding loads.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> None of mine will do past 2800 or so, but the earlier sticks will do tighter timings at higher clocks than the newer ones.
> 
> There also appears to be a weak DIMM in my latest kit, same address is failing if I increase tREFI at all, and this is in relatively cool temps in Memtest86 7.1...doesn't bode well for more demanding loads.


Yeah i had these micron chips since they launched. i even RMA'd one of the kits because it wouldent go past 2666mhz and 2400Mhz was max for one of the sticks.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> It is very strange that you cannot increase your VCCIO voltage any higher than 1.135 volts. I have never seen that before. Is it the same with VCCSA voltage ?
> 
> Without being able to increase your VCCIO past 1.135 volts, this is the main reason why you are unable to overclock your memory to anything higher than 3200mhz.. Every Z170 board I have ever used, has been able to set the VCCIO to between 1.2-1.5 volts without any problems.
> 
> What bios version are you running on your board ?
> 
> If you are not running on the latest version, then update to the latest version and then see if you are able to set your VCCIO to 1.2 volts.
> 
> If you are already on the latest bios, then flash your bios again with the latest firmware, incase for some reason it has become corrupt and that is why it is doing strange things, such as not letting you raise the VCCIO voltage.


Yes I suspected as well that the VCCIO voltage being low could be a strong contributor to the frequency issue. VCCSA can run higher just fine. I actually have it up to 1.25v right now. It might work lower, but it was one of the settings I just gave a bit of extra headroom to in order to get the system to POST with the 4 sticks.
I am running bios 3.10, and it looks like they came out with a new version past this. I will try installing that later today. Since it is a new bios I am going to basically start over on this process and drop back down to 2 sticks and start testing again. Once I get back to the place I am at now I will post an update, or if I find some other strange behavior on the new bios ill let you know.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Yes I suspected as well that the VCCIO voltage being low could be a strong contributor to the frequency issue. VCCSA can run higher just fine. I actually have it up to 1.25v right now. It might work lower, but it was one of the settings I just gave a bit of extra headroom to in order to get the system to POST with the 4 sticks.
> I am running bios 3.10, and it looks like they came out with a new version past this. I will try installing that later today. Since it is a new bios I am going to basically start over on this process and drop back down to 2 sticks and start testing again. Once I get back to the place I am at now I will post an update, or if I find some other strange behavior on the new bios ill let you know.


have you binned the sticks and the slots now too?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah i had these micron chips since they launched. i even RMA'd one of the kits because it wouldent go past 2666mhz and 2400Mhz was max for one of the sticks.


Actually, I think I was mistaken about this new kit, at least with regard to the weak DIMM.

Since I'm still testing my new 6800K I've been trying to leave all the memory installed for more load on the IMC, but I did rearrange all the DIMMs. Getting the exact same error in the same address (11009.2MiB in), so I yanked the DIMM in channel C and the error disappeared.

Either I've got a weak DIMM slot on my ASRock board, or there is a localized hotspot that's making that area of the slot warm enough to throw these errors (it is right next to the VRM phases and I am trying to run things warm for testing. Will take a close look at and clean the slot then see if that resolves any issues.

Edit: There is a small flake of metal in DIMM slot C1 on my board.

Edit 2: Tried to vacuum the metal out as I didn't want to get it lodged somewhere else, but that didn't work; turns out it was a tiny speck of Liquid Ultra. I used a lens cleaning cloth soaked in 91% isopropyl, which I wrapped around an old credit card then pressed into the slot repeatedly...seems to have mopped everything up. Rinsed slot out with more isopropyl just to make sure, then used my data vac blower and a hair dryer to take care of the alcohol. Cleaned all the contacts on the DIMMs as well. Testing now.


----------



## Blameless

Well, looks like the tiny bit of metal I cleaned out of the DIMM slot was never the issue; same error, in the same addresses.

I took a closer look at the back side of the board and it looks like there were a few trace repairs done as is see tiny dots of solder around the problem DIMM slot, beneath the waterproof clear coat that is on the X99 OC Formula.

Going to see if I can get a replacement board from ASRock.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> It is very strange that you cannot increase your VCCIO voltage any higher than 1.135 volts. I have never seen that before. Is it the same with VCCSA voltage ?
> 
> Without being able to increase your VCCIO past 1.135 volts, this is the main reason why you are unable to overclock your memory to anything higher than 3200mhz.. Every Z170 board I have ever used, has been able to set the VCCIO to between 1.2-1.5 volts without any problems.
> 
> What bios version are you running on your board ?
> 
> If you are not running on the latest version, then update to the latest version and then see if you are able to set your VCCIO to 1.2 volts.
> 
> If you are already on the latest bios, then flash your bios again with the latest firmware, incase for some reason it has become corrupt and that is why it is doing strange things, such as not letting you raise the VCCIO voltage.


The 7.20 beta bios lets me run up to 1.25v on VCCIO, which is the max the board will let me. So thats an improvement. Because of this I was able to get the system to POST with 2 sticks at up to DDR3466 reliably, and can POST with 4 sticks at DDR3200 reliably as well. Auto timings work way better too, as before I was unable to POST with 4 sticks from a boot failure, and had to manually set a bunch of timings and get a successful boot before putting the other sticks back in. Now on the 7.20 beta the board will POST at bios defaults with all 4 sticks just fine if there was a POST failure with the manual timing/speed configuration.

So great success so far, 4 sticks at DDR-3200 is about what I was aiming for. Now I just need to work on tightening up the timings some.


----------



## SpeedyIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> It is very strange that you cannot increase your VCCIO voltage any higher than 1.135 volts. I have never seen that before. Is it the same with VCCSA voltage ?
> 
> Without being able to increase your VCCIO past 1.135 volts, this is the main reason why you are unable to overclock your memory to anything higher than 3200mhz.. Every Z170 board I have ever used, has been able to set the VCCIO to between 1.2-1.5 volts without any problems.


This might be a dumb question but is VCCIO supposed to be higher on a Z170 MOBO/BIOS than X99? I have been trying to get my DDR4 32GB kit to 3200 (on X99) for a while. I have read a lot of posts and saved a lot of snippets, and had several guys here send me detailed settings to try. In all of them VCCIO is typically 1.05V - a few of them have it up to 1.08125.

Above it says getting over 3200MHz will require VCCIO over 1.35V for sure, and adjustment range should be 1.2V to 1.5V. My BIOS manual says 1.05V is default with a range of .07V to 1.8V, which is a pretty big range. I never heard of this voltage (or others) typical or required ranges being different based on chipset. I have never gotten 3200 to to Post, and I have also never set VCCIO (CPU or PCH) over 1.08125V, as directed by those much more knowledgeable than me.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks!


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> This might be a dumb question but is VCCIO supposed to be higher on a Z170 MOBO/BIOS than X99? I have been trying to get my DDR4 32GB kit to 3200 (on X99) for a while. I have read a lot of posts and saved a lot of snippets, and had several guys here send me detailed settings to try. In all of them VCCIO is typically 1.05V - a few of them have it up to 1.08125.
> 
> Above it says getting over 3200MHz will require VCCIO over 1.35V for sure, and adjustment range should be 1.2V to 1.5V. My BIOS manual says 1.05V is default with a range of .07V to 1.8V, which is a pretty big range. I never heard of this voltage (or others) typical or required ranges being different based on chipset. I have never gotten 3200 to to Post, and I have also never set VCCIO (CPU or PCH) over 1.08125V, as directed by those much more knowledgeable than me.
> 
> Am I missing something here?
> 
> Thanks!


Your VCCIO and VCCSA voltages, are not based on the chipsets, it is based on the voltage your cpu's IMC requires, to be able to overclock your memory for the speed and timings you have set in your bios.

I don't know what kit you have, but in general DDR4 at 3200mhz, usually requires about 1.2-1.25 volts, depending on your IMC and the DIMM's themselves.

My Trident Z 3600mhz-kit requires the following voltages for each speeds. The DRAM voltage can range from 1.35 volts - 1.95 volts, depending on how tight I set my timings. Samsung E-Die and B Die IC's can both handle upto 2.0 volts of DRAM voltage without any issues. :

3600mhz - VCCIO and VCCSA - 1.2 volts
3733mhz - VCCIO and VCCSA - 1.25 volts
3866mhz - VCCO and VCCSA - 1.30 volts
4000-4133mhz - VCCIO and VCCSA - 1.35 volts.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> I don't know what kit you have, but in general DDR4 at 3200mhz, usually requires about 1.2-1.25 volts, depending on your IMC and the DIMM's themselves.
> 
> My Trident Z 3600mhz-kit requires the following voltages for each speeds. The DRAM voltage can range from 1.35 volts - 1.95 volts, depending on how tight I set my timings. Samsung E-Die and B Die IC's can both handle upto 2.0 volts of DRAM voltage without any issues. :
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure on Haswell-E (5960x etc.) you don't want to go above 1.45v on DRAM voltage on b-die for 24/7 use and 1.4v or so on older dies. I go up to 1.5v for benchmarks though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And he's talking about VCCIO on Haswell-E I think. I'd keep it under 1.15v, preferably 1.075 or under.
Click to expand...


----------



## SpeedyIV

Yeah that's what I thought which is why I got confused when I saw these posts about VCCIO and VCCSA values in the 1.2v - 1.4v range being required for 3200MHz + DRAM frequencies. My kit is a 32GB GSKILL F4-3333C16Q-GTZB which seems to be kind of an oddball but it should definitely do 3200MHz. The only XMP profile is 3333MHz. My CPU is an i7-5820k which I am sure is part of the limitation (2600MHz) I have been stuck at. All components are in my signature. Asus X99-Deluxe II is rated to 3333MHz with Broadwell-e.

If you are hitting speeds over 4000MHz, I am guessing you have a Broadwell-e CPU. Those speeds are beyond Haswell-e. I have been trying with a VDIMM max of 1.42v with VDIMM eventual at 1.38v or so. I have never tried above 1.42v. BIOS gives a warning for anything 1.4v or above for VDIMM. I have heard of people going to 1.5v but never 1.95v or 2.0v. How do I tell if the sticks are B die or E die? I know they are Samsung.

I will try raising VCCIO, VCCSA and VDIMM based on your input. Should I try a higher VDIMM first? I try to only change 1 value at a time but from your numbers it seems like all 3 need to get bumped up quite a bit.

Thanks!!


----------



## SpeedyIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I'm pretty sure on Haswell-E (5960x etc.) you don't want to go above 1.45v on DRAM voltage on b-die for 24/7 use and 1.4v or so on older dies. I go up to 1.5v for benchmarks though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And he's talking about VCCIO on Haswell-E I think. I'd keep it under 1.15v, preferably 1.075 or under.


Posts are overlapping. Yes Haswell-e. Is that the difference? Can Broadwell-e take or need higher VCCIO and VCCSA? VDIMM should be determined by the RAM - not the CPU, or both? And yeah KW when you posted suggested settings for me earlier in this thread, VCCIO and VCCSA (l think) were at 1.05v.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I'm pretty sure on Haswell-E (5960x etc.) you don't want to go above 1.45v on DRAM voltage on b-die for 24/7 use and 1.4v or so on older dies. I go up to 1.5v for benchmarks though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And he's talking about VCCIO on Haswell-E I think. I'd keep it under 1.15v, preferably 1.075 or under.


Sorry I was referring to Skylake memory overclocking, not Haswell/Broadwell, as I only have Skylake.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> Yeah that's what I thought which is why I got confused when I saw these posts about VCCIO and VCCSA values in the 1.2v - 1.4v range being required for 3200MHz + DRAM frequencies. My kit is a 32GB GSKILL F4-3333C16Q-GTZB which seems to be kind of an oddball but it should definitely do 3200MHz. The only XMP profile is 3333MHz. My CPU is an i7-5820k which I am sure is part of the limitation (2600MHz) I have been stuck at. All components are in my signature. Asus X99-Deluxe II is rated to 3333MHz with Broadwell-e.
> 
> If you are hitting speeds over 4000MHz, I am guessing you have a Broadwell-e CPU. Those speeds are beyond Haswell-e. I have been trying with a VDIMM max of 1.42v with VDIMM eventual at 1.38v or so. I have never tried above 1.42v. BIOS gives a warning for anything 1.4v or above for VDIMM. I have heard of people going to 1.5v but never 1.95v or 2.0v. How do I tell if the sticks are B die or E die? I know they are Samsung.
> 
> I will try raising VCCIO, VCCSA and VDIMM based on your input. Should I try a higher VDIMM first? I try to only change 1 value at a time but from your numbers it seems like all 3 need to get bumped up quite a bit.
> 
> Thanks!!


If you download this program and run an SPD Read, it will tell you what IC's you have. - Link - http://www.softnology.biz/files.html

Take a look at the following Haswell/Broadwell Overclocking guide, even though it is for Gigabyte boards, the theory is the same)

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=157669

Also take a look at the following threads about Haswell Overclocking and try follow what others, with similar setups to yours have done. I have never had Haswell/Broadwell, only Skylake.

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=156519

http://forum.hwbot.org/forumdisplay.php?f=145


----------



## MattBaneLM

Listen to him^


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> The 7.20 beta bios lets me run up to 1.25v on VCCIO, which is the max the board will let me. So thats an improvement. Because of this I was able to get the system to POST with 2 sticks at up to DDR3466 reliably, and can POST with 4 sticks at DDR3200 reliably as well. Auto timings work way better too, as before I was unable to POST with 4 sticks from a boot failure, and had to manually set a bunch of timings and get a successful boot before putting the other sticks back in. Now on the 7.20 beta the board will POST at bios defaults with all 4 sticks just fine if there was a POST failure with the manual timing/speed configuration.
> 
> So great success so far, 4 sticks at DDR-3200 is about what I was aiming for. Now I just need to work on tightening up the timings some.


That is still very strange that you cannot go past 1.25 volts on your VCCIO, I have never seen that in all the Z170 boards I have used, they all had a VCCIO and VCCSA voltage range of upto 1.5 volts.

However if that is the case and you cannot get any faster memory speeds than 3200mhz or tighter timings, then to be honest with you, after looking at your current timings, you would be a lot better off running at like 2800-3000mhz, with a lot tighter timings, as you will get more memory performance that way, then what you currently have at the moment.

The timings you have now are just way too loose and outweigh the benefit of being at 3200mhz.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> Posts are overlapping. Yes Haswell-e. Is that the difference? Can Broadwell-e take or need higher VCCIO and VCCSA? VDIMM should be determined by the RAM - not the CPU, or both? And yeah KW when you posted suggested settings for me earlier in this thread, VCCIO and VCCSA (l think) were at 1.05v.


it would be VERY unusual for *x99* to "need" CPU VCCIO above 1.08V and VCCSA in excess of 1.1V to run 32GB (4x8 or 8x4 - I've had/have both) even with very tight timings. Same for 64GB at 3400c13. Be careful boosting VSA above 1.2V as this can damage the CPU over time.

and to those pushing 1.9-2.0V on z170, what you see on HWBOT is not meant for 24/7 day-driver use, more importantly the values the crew there talks about are measured VDIMM. For example, my MOCF run VDIMM high compared to what is set in bios (+25mV or more depending on the freq). my 2 M8 Impacts run about as set in bios (you have to pull the audio module to expose the voltage read points), my M8 Extreme was close (+10mV). All measured with a DMM off the motherboard. And even at 4266c15 with 1.5V, VCCSA is 1.35V.


----------



## SpeedyIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> If you download this program and run an SPD Read, it will tell you what IC's you have. - Link - http://www.softnology.biz/files.html
> 
> Take a look at the following Haswell/Broadwell Overclocking guide, even though it is for Gigabyte boards, the theory is the same)
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=157669
> 
> Also take a look at the following threads about Haswell Overclocking and try follow what others, with similar setups to yours have done. I have never had Haswell/Broadwell, only Skylake.
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=156519
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/forumdisplay.php?f=145


Wow - Thaiphoon Burner looks like a really good tool. Looks like the full version lets you modify and write XMP profiles back to the DRAM. A lot of this is over my head now but what a great resource to learn. The site also has a repository of JDEC and related specs. I will be reading for WEEKS!! Also checking out those other links. I have been sucking in info and have had a few members here really go the extra mile with support and suggestions. My last build was on an EVGA X58 with DDR3 and I never bothered to try overclocking the DRAM, so I am playing catch up with X99, Haswell-e, and DDR4. I have done pretty well with the CPU OC but still fighting to get the RAM kit over 2800MHz.

Also, sorry to all for confusion about Skylake and Haswell-e. I guess I picked up the conversation in the middle.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> Wow - Thaiphoon Burner looks like a really good tool. Looks like the full version lets you modify and write XMP profiles back to the DRAM. A lot of this is over my head now but what a great resource to learn. The site also has a repository of JDEC and related specs. I will be reading for WEEKS!! Also checking out those other links. I have been sucking in info and have had a few members here really go the extra mile with support and suggestions. My last build was on an EVGA X58 with DDR3 and I never bothered to try overclocking the DRAM, so I am playing catch up with X99, Haswell-e, and DDR4. I have done pretty well with the CPU OC but still fighting to get the RAM kit over 2800MHz.
> 
> Also, sorry to all for confusion about Skylake and Haswell-e. I guess I picked up the conversation in the middle.


some Asrock MBs have that capability in Bios. Yep, pretty cool.


----------



## jearly410

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> That is still very strange that you cannot go past 1.25 volts on your VCCIO, I have never seen that in all the Z170 boards I have used, they all had a VCCIO and VCCSA voltage range of upto 1.5 voltS


My extreme 6 is the same way. I guess it's an asrock feature? Wasn't this way on my gigabyte gaming 3.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jearly410*
> 
> My extreme 6 is the same way. I guess it's an asrock feature? Wasn't this way on my gigabyte gaming 3.


Maybe ask on their forums, with any luck you may get a response but I doubt it.


----------



## MattBaneLM

my fatality k6+ is limited but it overvolts by 0.020-0.025 anyway lol

when i run ram at 3733 with these timings its about 8 seconds slower 32m pi than 3600 15-17-17-34-2t (with tighter subs too)

is the clue to why in my timings or just a bad multiplier/ passed the diminishing point of returns?

oh btw they are Sqmsung E-die IC's


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> my fatality k6+ is limited but it overvolts by 0.020-0.025 anyway lol
> 
> when i run ram at 3733 with these timings its about 8 seconds slower 32m pi than 3600 15-17-17-34-2t (with tighter subs too)
> 
> is the clue to why in my timings or just a bad multiplier/ passed the diminishing point of returns?
> 
> oh btw they are Sqmsung E-die IC's


You need to tighten your timings, start by setting your primary timings to 15-18-18-28-1T and your tRFC to 280.
Once you have booted into Windows at those timings, post a timing calc screenshot and we'll see what your board has set the other timings to and go from there.

Also do a 32M run at the new timings and post a screenshot.


----------



## MattBaneLM

my fatality k6+ is limited but it overvolts by 0.020-0.025 anyway lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> You need to tighten your timings, start by setting your primary timings to 15-18-18-28-1T and your tRFC to 280.
> Once you have booted into Windows at those timings, post a timing calc screenshot and we'll see what your board has set the other timings to and go from there.
> 
> Also do a 32M run at the new timings and post a screenshot.


i'll try but i havent seen it like 1t timings yet. can i do the above but 2t first?

oh and btw i got it to run under stress with the same timings (incl subs) i had at 3600 exactly and it was slower,,,


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> my fatality k6+ is limited but it overvolts by 0.020-0.025 anyway lol
> i'll try but i havent seen it like 1t timings yet. can i do the above but 2t first?


What are your DRAM, VCCIO and VCCSA voltages set to, when running 3733mhz ?

Also for now, set your cpu back to stock clocks, so as to just focus on memory overclocking, without the additional strain of your cpu being at high clocks, until you have got your memory timings perfect.

So just save your current bios profile and then reset it back to factory defaults and then set your memory timings as above. In fact make your primaries 16-18-18-28-1T and your tRFC 300 to start with at 3733mhz and see if that passes training.


----------



## MattBaneLM

ok so it booted and ran pi32m. but not very quickly lol

in bios-
vccio 1.90
vccsa- 1.250
vdimm- 1.480



you can see in pic they translate higher in os monitoring... asrock.. normal..

i'll try 1t but dont hold much hope


----------



## MattBaneLM

vdimm - 1.525
vccio- 1.20
vccsa- 1.260
16-18=18-28=1t frfc 300
1t wont boot... go higher with vccio?


----------



## MattBaneLM

switched it back to the prev post's settings and my rtls changed this time...


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> vdimm - 1.525
> vccio- 1.20
> vccsa- 1.260
> 16-18=18-28=1t frfc 300
> 1t wont boot... go higher with vccio?


Set vccio to 1.25 volts and Dram volts to 1.65 and if your board has the setting Boot Dram Voltage, set that to the same as Dram Voltage, so 1.65 volts.

Then set it to 1T and it should boot fine

And set your cpu back to stock clocks for now, so you can focus on just tightening your timings and making sure it passes training, without the additional load of high cpu clocks, which does make it harder to pass training if you are tightening memory too much at high clocks.

Once you have learnt the limits of your IMC and your Dimms, then add your cpu overclock into the equation.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Set vccio to 1.25 volts and Dram volts to 1.65 and if your board has the setting Boot Dram Voltage, set that to the same as Dram Voltage, so 1.65 volts.
> 
> Then set it to 1T and it should boot fine
> 
> And set your cpu back to stock clocks for now, so you can focus on just tightening your timings and making sure it passes training, without the additional load of high cpu clocks, which does make it harder to pass training if you are tightening memory too much at high clocks.
> 
> Once you have learnt the limits of your IMC and your Dimms, then add your cpu overclock into the equation.


ok ty will do. havent hit those volts on the vdimm yet.

yeah i normally would pull the cpu back and im being lazy lol

no boot dram voltage but i do have MRC fast boot. i believe when thats disabled it forces training the ram rather than bypassing it.....

and whats with D11 bandwidths and margins?


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> ok ty will do. havent hit those volts on the vdimm yet.
> 
> yeah i normally would pull the cpu back and im being lazy lol
> 
> no boot dram voltage but i do have MRC fast boot. i believe when thats disabled it forces training the ram rather than bypassing it.....
> 
> and whats with D11 bandwidths and margins?


Yes MRC Fast Boot is for controlling memory training.

The DLL Bandwidth Levels and memory margin is for controlling the delay lock loop, that aligns the data strobe signal to the data signal, to ensure proper transfer and performance with the IMC Controller. You do not need to touch these settings.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yes MRC Fast Boot is for controlling memory training.
> 
> The DLL Bandwidth Levels and memory margin is for controlling the delay lock loop, that aligns the data strobe signal to the data signal, to ensure proper transfer and performance with the IMC Controller. You do not need to touch these settings.


ok gotcha. margin is at 10 fyi....

so mrc fast boot is enabled by default. is it better to disable when first training?


----------



## MattBaneLM

1t was def a no go but i did get 14-18-18-28 2 t trfc 300
im winding back volts to see what its been more dependent on. the vccio or vdimm


----------



## MattBaneLM

double post. sorry


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> so mrc fast boot is enabled by default. is it better to disable when first training?


I'd leave it disabled entirely if you don't have a wide stability margin with your memory settings.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> ok gotcha. margin is at 10 fyi....
> 
> so mrc fast boot is enabled by default. is it better to disable when first training?


Just leave MRC Fast Boot on, because the way it works is that if you make any change to your memory settings/timings, it will then train the memory at the next boot. Once it passes that training and boots up into Windows, then for as long as you do not make any changes to your memory settings/timings, then it will skip training at boot up.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> 1t was def a no go but i did get 14-18-18-28 2 t trfc 300
> im winding back volts to see what its been more dependent on. the vccio or vdimm


Try the following - Set VCCSA and VCCIO to 1.30 volts and DRAM Voltage to 1.65 volts and then set your timings to 16-18-18-28 1T @ 3733mhz.

See if it passes training, if it fails then increase your DRAM Voltage to 1.70 volts and see if it passes and if not then increase DRAM voltage to 1.75 and reboot again

Don't worry about the voltages as they are perfectly fine and your E-Die can handle that DRAM Voltage no problem.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Just leave MRC Fast Boot on, because the way it works is that if you make any change to your memory settings/timings, it will then train the memory at the next boot. Once it passes that training and boots up into Windows, then for as long as you do not make any changes to your memory settings/timings, then it will skip training at boot up.


That's not necessarily true. Ambient temps and such can affect memory training, and AFAIK fast boot affects more than memory training. Just a thought ...


----------



## MattBaneLM

i'v had to settle on 1.535 vdimm, 1.230 vvcio, 1.250 vccsa at 3733 14-18-18-28-2t for now. those are safe for 24/7 then?

ty for the confidence to push further TK with this thread but also the other where you helped me work out my memory

also i can only go to max 1.250 in bios for vccio


----------



## MattBaneLM

who has a similar clocked system in a x99 platform that can compare a realbench with me as im curious the raw difference. how much more you score than z170


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> That's not necessarily true. Ambient temps and such can affect memory training, and AFAIK fast boot affects more than memory training. Just a thought ...


MRC Fast boot only controls whether it trains your memory at every boot or just when you change a memory setting/timing. Ambient temperature changes has no bearing on this setting at all.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> i'v had to settle on 1.535 vdimm, 1.230 vvcio, 1.250 vccsa at 3733 14-18-18-28-2t for now. those are safe for 24/7 then?
> 
> ty for the confidence to push further TK with this thread but also the other where you helped me work out my memory
> 
> also i can only go to max 1.250 in bios for vccio


Yeah no probs, i wasnt aware you were wanting 24/7 settings, i thought you were trying to go for the fastest time in 32m, which is why i was trying to help you achieve 1T at tighter timings.

One thing i have learned is that the non overclocking range of Z170 asrock boards, have low Vccio and Vccsa voltage limits. But the timings you have now are decent for 24/7 use.
What you can try do next, is get your secondary and tertiary timings tighter for more performance in memory dependant apps and benchmarks.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yeah no probs, i wasnt aware you were wanting 24/7 settings, i thought you were trying to go for the fastest time in 32m, which is why i was trying to help you achieve 1T at tighter timings.
> 
> One thing i have learned is that the non overclocking range of Z170 asrock boards, have low Vccio and Vccsa voltage limits. But the timings you have now are decent for 24/7 use.
> What you can try do next, is get your secondary and tertiary timings tighter for more performance in memory dependant apps and benchmarks.


i was looking for both. just dont have the time to go further now bud and happy to roost where i am if thats ok which you confirmed. still amazed how little difference its making but with more tweaks it may come alive... this board is maxing it close to top frequency anyway/ stupid me. should have gone Formula or maximus....


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> MRC Fast boot only controls whether it trains your memory at every boot or just when you change a memory setting/timing. Ambient temperature changes has no bearing on this setting at all.


Not sure about that. I ocassionally get memory training and I haven't changed my timings.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> i was looking for both. just dont have the time to go further now bud and happy to roost where i am if thats ok which you confirmed. still amazed how little difference its making but with more tweaks it may come alive... this board is maxing it close to top frequency anyway/ stupid me. should have gone Formula or maximus....


Yeah all the Z170 boards ive had, have all been the overclocking range from each manufacturer, as the bios on these boards have a lot of extra settings and features specifically for overclocking, that are not found in normal/gaming Z170 boards.

They way i look at it, is you can use a dedicated overclocking board to achieve high overclocks and use it for gaming as well. But you can't use a gaming board to achieve high overclocks as their bioses are limited. So the overclocking range gives you the best of both worlds.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Not sure about that. I ocassionally get memory training and I haven't changed my timings.


There has to be more to it, than what you are telling us, because as long as your ddr4 timings are stable and you havent done anything else to affect system stability, then if MRC fast boot is on and it successfully trains your memory, and there are no further changes made to any memory settings, you can reboot your pc as many times as you like and it will never retrain your memory


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> There has to be more to it, than what you are telling us, because as long as your ddr4 timings are stable and you havent done anything else to affect system stability, then if MRC fast boot is on and it successfully trains your memory, and there are no further changes made to any memory settings, you can reboot your pc as many times as you like and it will never retrain your memory


Sure, you're right, nothing can possibly change unless I do it. Sorry, not that simple.

Fact 1: I occasionally get training while booting with no changes.

Fact 2: I can change my trp from 13 to 14: no training on reboot. From 14 back to 13, no training on reboot.

Obviously the decision on training is not just "I changed the timings".

But whatever - maybe I have a weird board / CPU.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Ambient temperature changes has no bearing on this setting at all.


Hello

@djgar is correct. There are several variables that can affect stability with MRC Fast Boot enabled.


----------



## Blameless

Which is why I never leave it on, unless I'm running the memory at stock or significantly below settings I know to be stable.

Shaving a second off boot times is not worth the potential instability, or even the minor hit to performance possible, when not allowing the memory to fully train.


----------



## MattBaneLM

I think according to my experience so far I have only seen it behave as tk says but all combos of hardware are different and me being me will now test it out


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> @djgar is correct. There are several variables that can affect stability with MRC Fast Boot enabled.


I have noticed that both Djgar and Blameless are using the X99 platform, whereas im referring to the Z170 platform and have always seen MRC Fast Boot behave exactly as i have described on all Z170 boards i have used.

Djgar - I have not used X99, but on Z170 any changes to any timings in the bios, results in the system retraining the memory on the next boot up. If the timings entered are perfectly stable and correct and pass training, then with MRC Fast Boot on, it will only train the memory once and then every subsequent reboot will bypass training, if no further changes are made.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> I have noticed that both Djgar and Blameless are using the X99 platform, whereas im referring to the Z170 platform and have always seen MRC Fast Boot behave exactly as i have described on all Z170 boards i have used.
> 
> Djgar - I have not used X99, but on Z170 any changes to any timings in the bios, results in the system retraining the memory on the next boot up. If the timings entered are perfectly stable and correct and pass training, then with MRC Fast Boot on, it will only train the memory once and then every subsequent reboot will bypass training, if no further changes are made.


No worries, I'm Z170 clueless







. You should put your rig in your signature so we can see your context. You may have mentioned it in your initial posts but that was a while ago


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> I have noticed that both Djgar and Blameless are using the X99 platform, whereas im referring to the Z170 platform and have always seen MRC Fast Boot behave exactly as i have described on all Z170 boards i have used.
> 
> Djgar - I have not used X99, but on Z170 any changes to any timings in the bios, results in the system retraining the memory on the next boot up. If the timings entered are perfectly stable and correct and pass training, then with MRC Fast Boot on, it will only train the memory once and then every subsequent reboot will bypass training, if no further changes are made.


The platform isn't relevant to this as much as DDR4 is. One of the features that goes missing with MRC FAST BOOT enabled is retraining to account temperature related drift (impedance, R(on), signal line skew, DQ ref, to name a few). If a system is nearing the edge of its stable margin, that can be enough for POST to fail on occasion. It's one of those settings that may work for some people, but not for others. No hard and fast rules but for most people, if a system needs MRC FAST BOOT enabled because it occasionally fails training, it's usually best to back off to a point that isn't conditional.


----------



## Silent Scone

For the sake of this thread, always best to leave it enabled. As far as guiding others is concerned I personally only recommend it if someone is having severe difficulty passing training consistently as Raja has said. For folks delving in here for the most stable settings for their system, best to leave it enabled and battle through the pain of finding settings that can pass training consistently


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> For the sake of this thread, always best to leave it enabled. As far as guiding others is concerned I personally only recommend it if someone is having severe difficulty passing training consistently as Raja has said. For folks delving in here for the most stable settings for their system, best to leave it enabled and battle through the pain of finding settings that can pass training consistently


nice ram in your sig mate. 32gb at those timings... nice


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> who has a similar clocked system in a x99 platform that can compare a realbench with me as im curious the raw difference. how much more you score than z170


http://hwbot.org/submission/3378328_


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> I have noticed that both Djgar and Blameless are using the X99 platform, whereas im referring to the Z170 platform and have always seen MRC Fast Boot behave exactly as i have described on all Z170 boards i have used.
> 
> Djgar - I have not used X99, but on Z170 any changes to any timings in the bios, results in the system retraining the memory on the next boot up. If the timings entered are perfectly stable and correct and pass training, then with MRC Fast Boot on, it will only train the memory once and then every subsequent reboot will bypass training, if no further changes are made.


I've not yet had a reason to disable memory training on either platform... especially with stupid high frequencies and ridiculously tight timings (which are for the most part not fully stable to HCiMemtest and the like). When it is enabled, bad or "untrained" sticks are not dropped from the array and all sorts of bad things can happen to the OS - that I know from more than one borked OS install. Main thing.. make sure you have a good image of your OS install when you start working at the edges of stability.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3378328_
> 
> I've not yet had a reason to disable memory training on either platform... especially with stupid high frequencies and ridiculously tight timings (which are for the most part not fully stable to HCiMemtest and the like). When it is enabled, bad or "untrained" sticks are not dropped from the array and all sorts of bad things can happen to the OS - that I know from more than one borked OS install. Main thing.. make sure you have a good image of your OS install when you start working at the edges of stability.


Yeah totally agree with you, when it comes to overclocking your memory to 3866 or higher on Z170, at C12 with very tight secondary and tertiaries, then it can pass training on one boot and then fail on the next boot, depending on your boards limits. Then it is better to have it train at every boot.

But I have found that when running at 3733 or below, between C14-C16 timings, that once it has passed training and is stable, that retraining is not necessary and with MRC Fast Boot on, it will just train the one time and then skip training on subsequent reboots, with no issues whatsoever.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yeah totally agree with you, when it comes to overclocking your memory to 3866 or higher on Z170, at C12 with very tight secondary and tertiaries, then it can pass training on one boot and then fail on the next boot, depending on your boards limits. Then it is better to have it train at every boot.
> 
> *But I have found that when running at 3733 or below, between C14-C16 timings*, that once it has passed training and is stable, that retraining is not necessary and with MRC Fast Boot on, it will just train the one time and then skip training on subsequent reboots, with no issues whatsoever.


I'd believe that... and IME, this effect is amplified on x99 with 8 sticks in.








I think the issue comes down to whether having training enabled produces any deficit - probably not for a daily driver .


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3378328_
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've not yet had a reason to disable memory training on either platform... especially with stupid high frequencies and ridiculously tight timings (which are for the most part not fully stable to HCiMemtest and the like). When it is enabled, bad or "untrained" sticks are not dropped from the array and all sorts of bad things can happen to the OS - that I know from more than one borked OS install. Main thing.. make sure you have a good image of your OS install when you start working at the edges of stability.


I have a RAID 10 6 (correction!) partition dedicated to OS images - new one every couple of weeks or so. They only take 3-4 minutes to make anyway


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> No worries, I'm Z170 clueless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You should put your rig in your signature so we can see your context. You may have mentioned it in your initial posts but that was a while ago


Thanks for the tip, have updated my signature


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I have a RAID 10 6 (correction!) partition dedicated to OS images - new one every couple of weeks or so. They only take 3-4 minutes to make anyway


really? 4 min? Images or restore points?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> really? 4 min? Images or restore points?


Yep, usually more like 3. Complete partition image of boot sector and 3 volumes: Win recovery (360MB), Win 10 (100GB, 60GB used) and a Temp (380GB pretty much empty on imaging), so not that big overall and it's on the M.2 950, backed to the Areca controller's RAID 6 OS image volume. All I have there is basically my software, most data on a separate SSD RAID 10 partition.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Yep, usually more like 3. Complete partition image of boot sector and 3 volumes: Win recovery (360MB), Win 10 (100GB, 60GB used) and a Temp (380GB pretty much empty on imaging), so not that big overall and it's on the M.2 950, backed to the Areca controller's RAID 6 OS image volume. All I have there is basically my software, most data on a separate SSD RAID 10 partition.


wow. amazing. A complete system image in under 5 min.


----------



## Silent Scone

lol, all my crap takes about 50 minutes.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> wow. amazing. A complete system image in under 5 min.


The data image takes about 90 mins. It's nice they're separate. The system has no redundancy so more often backed whereas the data (almost 1TB) is RAID 10 and gets backed basically once a month.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol, all my crap takes about 50 minutes.


yeah - about the same here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> The data image takes about 90 mins. It's nice they're separate. The system has no redundancy so more often backed whereas the data (almost 1TB) is RAID 10 and gets backed basically once a month.


ah... okay. I see. Yeah, Imaging a raid 10 is "belt and suspenders" if it only has data, docs etc. Takes two drives on the same side of the raid 0 mirror to go down. - rare event. I run raid 10 here but keep a 5th drive connected and designated as a Spare in IRST.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

There is different Samsung B-Die ?
It will appear that some Corsair Platinum kits have the Samsung B-Die but the timings are at 14-16-16


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Hello
> 
> There is different Samsung B-Die ?
> It will appear that some Corsair Platinum kits have the Samsung B-Die but the timings are at 14-16-16


My Samsung B-Die chips have the TRCD and TRP 2 higher than my CAS as well at their stock kit ratings


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> My Samsung B-Die chips have the TRCD and TRP 2 higher than my CAS as well at their stock kit ratings


OK thanks
A kit (8GB module) 3200 14-16-16 or 3600 16-18-18 will surely have the B-Die ?

What kit do you have ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> My Samsung B-Die chips have the TRCD and TRP 2 higher than my CAS as well at their stock kit ratings


how did you determine they are B-die? I'd like to try the method on a few kits.


----------



## tistou77

Single sided is B-Die generaly (8GB module)
Double sided is D or E-Die


----------



## Kimir

Remove the heatspreader, you'll know for sure (if they don't go crazy and stamp each chip with their own logo)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Single sided is B-Die generaly (8GB module)
> Double sided is D or E-Die


not 100% correct. there are many SS sticks that are not B-Die, and apparently, there is a performance difference between early and later production run B-Die sticks. The SS sticks with equal 3 primary timings at the rated speed are likely B-die from G.Skill anyway. Check in the Ram addicts club about the corsair sticks to know for sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Remove the heatspreader, you'll know for sure (if they don't go crazy and each chip with their own logo)


method of last resort.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> not 100% correct. there are many SS sticks that are not B-Die, and apparently, there is a performance difference between early and later production run B-Die sticks.


For that I said "generally"









After if Corsair has not changed their "versions", the 4.23 is the Samsung B-Die
The 4.24, from the D-Die

I will see when I receive the kit 3600 C16


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> how did you determine they are B-die? I'd like to try the method on a few kits.


This is what my RAM chips are:
Quote:


> DRAM COMPONENTS
> Manufacturer : Samsung
> Part Number : *K4A8G085WB-BCPB*
> Package : Standard Monolithic 78-ball FBGA
> Die Density / Die Count : 8 Gb - 20 nm / 1 die
> Composition : 1024M x8 (64M x8 x 16 banks)
> Clock Frequency : 1067 MHz (0.938 ns)
> Minimum Timing Delays : 15-15-15-36-50
> Read Latencies Supported : 16T, 15T, 14T, 13T, 12T, 11T, 10T
> Supply Voltage : 1.20 V
> XMP Certified : 2070 MHz / 19-21-21-41-62 / 1.35 V
> XMP Extreme : Not programmed
> SPD Revision : 1.1 / September 2015
> XMP Revision : 2.0 / December 2013


Samsung spec sheet for K4A8G085WB and K4A8G045WB says B-Die in big letters in the title:
http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global/file/product/2016/06/DS_K4A8G085WB-B_Rev1_61-0.pdf
http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/server-dram/ddr4-component/K4A8G085WB?ia=3068

So according to Samsung, all primary timings should be equal. However when the 3rd part dimm manufacturers get their hands on the chips and make a model of 4133 for instance, something the chips weren't really spec'ed for I guess GSkill determined that 19-21-21 were the timings they needed to get good pass rates and supply for that speed.

EDIT: One thing I actually just noticed on the Samsung website was the speed grades of the chips. Obviously mine are the "PB" ones, but I see Samsung sells 3 chips of this die that actually have higher CL than the TRP and TRCD timings. Never seen that before in my life and it goes against a lot of what I had learned way back when about setting memory timings. Crazy stuff.
Quote:


> Speed
> ㆍPB: DDR4-2133 (1066MHz @ CL=15, tRCD=15, tRP=15)
> ㆍRC: DDR4-2400 (1200MHz @ CL=17, tRCD=17, tRP=17)
> ㆍTD: DDR4-2666 (1333MHz @ CL=19, tRCD=19, tRP=19)
> ㆍRB: DDR4-2133 (1066MHz @ CL=17, tRCD=15, tRP=15)
> ㆍTC: DDR4-2400 (1200MHz @ CL=19, tRCD=17, tRP=17)
> ㆍWD: DDR4-2666 (1333MHz @ CL=22, tRCD=19, tRP=19)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> This is what my RAM chips are:
> Samsung spec sheet for K4A8G085WB and K4A8G045WB says B-Die in big letters in the title:
> http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global/file/product/2016/06/DS_K4A8G085WB-B_Rev1_61-0.pdf
> http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/server-dram/ddr4-component/K4A8G085WB?ia=3068
> 
> So according to Samsung, all timings primary should be equal. However when the 3rd part dimm manufacturers get their hands on the chips and make a model of 4133 for instance, something the chips weren't really spec'ed for I guess GSkill determined that 19-21-21 were the timings they needed to get good pass rates and supply for that speed.
> 
> EDIT: One thing I actually just noticed on the Samsung website was the speed grades of the chips. Obviously mine are the "PB" ones, but I see Samsung sells 3 chips of this die that actually have higher CL than the TRP and TRCD timings. Never seen that before in my life and it goes against a lot of what I had learned way back when about setting memory timings. Crazy stuff.


Nice, thanks!
Used Thiaphoon? (I think that's the name?)


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice, thanks!
> Used Thiaphoon? (I think that's the name?)


yep!


----------



## Blameless

All the primary timings "should" be equal only because that's JEDEC spec...it's up to the DRAM manufacturers to build parts that can handle them and in practice different ICs have different trends. Samsung B-die can usually tighten CAS more than tRCD or tRP, which is why all the binned kits using them are setup the way they are. Most brands/ICs have their own rough pattern of timings they like.

The Micron stuff that makes up most of my current pile of DDR4 can tighten tRCD more than any other primary, and CAS next well...past 2666 I usually end up with tRP being the loosest of the three.


----------



## tistou77

I did not think 3850mhz was possible in "bench" (ram at 1.5xV) with a 5960X


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I did not think 3850mhz was possible in "bench" (ram at 1.5xV) with a 5960X


Huh?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Huh?


Memory at 3850mhz at 1.5xV


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Memory at 3850mhz at 1.5xV


Where have you seen this?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Where have you seen this?


HFR French forum


----------



## tistou77

I am a little lost with the bandwidth of Aida64
These are the results I had

6900K 4300/3600 and 4x4GB 3200 14-16-16-30 1T => 79k - 80k - 80k

6950X 4400/3700 and 4x4GB 3200 14-16-16-30 1T => 85K - 80K - 83K

6950X 4400/3700 and 4x8GB 3200 14-14-14-28 1T => 85K - 80K - 84K

Is this normal for you ?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Memory at 3850mhz at 1.5xV


unless those are very exception super-duper binned sticks, 1.5V won't do that. More like 1.7-1.9V IMO


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> unless those are very exception super-duper binned sticks, 1.5V won't do that. More like 1.7-1.9V IMO


Not necessarily, they do have kits that will do 3866Mhz @ 1.35v. Just got to know how to get it there......


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Not necessarily, they do have kits that will do 3866Mhz @ 1.35v. Just got to know how to get it there......


on x99 with a 5960x at ambient and 1.35V? BS. never seen nor heard of that, even on any HWbot sub.
rumors
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I did not think 3850mhz was possible in "bench" (ram at 1.5xV) with a 5960X


you can look thru these: http://hwbot.org/benchmark/memory_clock/rankings?cores=0&hardwareTypeId=memory_160#start=0#interval=20


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Not necessarily, they do have kits that will do 3866Mhz @ 1.35v. Just got to know how to get it there......


Yes but those kits have very loose timings at 1.35 volts You will not get tight timings at 3866mhz with 1.35 - 1.5 volts.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yes but those kits have very loose timings at 1.35 volts You will not get tight timings at 3866mhz with 1.35 - 1.5 volts.


Can't thank you enough with the ram help tk

But for 24/7 not benching what would you go max vdimm and vccio?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> on x99 with a 5960x at ambient and 1.35V? BS. never seen nor heard of that, even on any HWbot sub.
> rumors
> you can look thru these: http://hwbot.org/benchmark/memory_clock/rankings?cores=0&hardwareTypeId=memory_160#start=0#interval=20


I can run 3600Mhz @ 1.35v on x99 easy. I even had a 3733Mhz dual channel kit running 3733Mhz in dual channel on my x99 rig but that was as high as i could get no matter what voltage it seemed.

Here you can sort it out for x99
http://hwbot.org/search/submissions
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yes but those kits have very loose timings at 1.35 volts You will not get tight timings at 3866mhz with 1.35 - 1.5 volts.


15-19-19 timings are not that tight...


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Can't thank you enough with the ram help tk
> 
> But for 24/7 not benching what would you go max vdimm and vccio?


Yeah no probs, you're welcome, glad to help out.

For 24/7 i run my Trident Z kit at 3600 C16, which is the rated specs of the kit.
I have my DRAM voltage at 1.35 and my vccio and vccsa at 1.2 volts.
I chose that kit as its the perfect middle ground between 3000-4000 mhz and 3600mhz for internet browsing,.gaming, and productivity software is more than plenty.
The only thing i alter from its rated specs, is i slightly tighten a few secondary and tertiary timings, to give it that extra bit of snappiness, but that is still at the above voltages.

With Samsung E-Die and B-Die, running at upto 1.5 volts on your Dram voltage for 24/7 use, is no issue at all, as they can handle upto over 2 volts.
As long as you provide adequate airflow over your Dimm modules and they stay around 25-30 degrees, then you can run them all day long at that voltage.

Same goes for Vccio and Vccsa, you can run upto 1.3 volts for 24/7 use as 1.5 volts is the max limit recommended not to go over, before it causes any damage to your cpu. I am referring to Skylake cpu's by the way. I dont know what Haswell/Broadwells limits are on this, as ive never used them.

To be honest, other than benching there is just no need to run any faster/tighter than C16, as you will just not notice any difference in performance by eye, between C14-C16, for daily computing.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I can run 3600Mhz @ 1.35v on x99 easy. I even had a 3733Mhz dual channel kit running 3733Mhz in dual channel on my x99 rig but that was as high as i could get no matter what voltage it seemed.
> 
> Here you can sort it out for x99
> http://hwbot.org/search/submissions
> 15-19-19 timings are not that tight...


I never said that 15-19-19 timings are what i consider tight. Im talking about C12 at 3866mhz or higher. You will never achieve that with 1.5 volts.


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I am a little lost with the bandwidth of Aida64
> These are the results I had
> 
> 6900K 4300/3600 and 4x4GB 3200 14-16-16-30 1T => 79k - 80k - 80k
> 
> 6950X 4400/3700 and 4x4GB 3200 14-16-16-30 1T => 85K - 80K - 83K
> 
> 6950X 4400/3700 and 4x8GB 3200 14-14-14-28 1T => 85K - 80K - 84K
> 
> Is this normal for you ?
> 
> Thanks


if there is a lot of memory bandwidth to spare (see quad channel), this benchmark can actually get cpu-bound. More cores and speed will help get reads and copy closer to theoretical. The same, plus cache, will affect write speed, but with 10 cores BW-E, think the CPU manages to saturate RAM bandwidth easier. in my experience, HW-E cache speed heavily affects RAM write speed at higher RAM freqs.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yeah no probs, you're welcome, glad to help out.
> 
> For 24/7 i run my Trident Z kit at 3600 C16, which is the rated specs of the kit.
> I have my DRAM voltage at 1.35 and my vccio and vccsa at 1.2 volts.
> I chose that kit as its the perfect middle ground between 3000-4000 mhz and 3600mhz for internet browsing,.gaming, and productivity software is more than plenty.
> The only thing i alter from its rated specs, is i slightly tighten a few secondary and tertiary timings, to give it that extra bit of snappiness, but that is still at the above voltages.
> 
> With Samsung E-Die and B-Die, running at upto 1.5 volts on your Dram voltage for 24/7 use, is no issue at all, as they can handle upto over 2 volts.
> As long as you provide adequate airflow over your Dimm modules and they stay around 25-30 degrees, then you can run them all day long at that voltage.
> 
> Same goes for Vccio and Vccsa, you can run upto 1.3 volts for 24/7 use as 1.5 volts is the max limit recommended not to go over, before it causes any damage to your cpu. I am referring to Skylake cpu's by the way. I dont know what Haswell/Broadwells limits are on this, as ive never used them.
> 
> To be honest, other than benching there is just no need to run any faster/tighter than C16, as you will just not notice any difference in performance by eye, between C14-C16, for daily computing.


Cheers man

Good to know
I had settled on 3600 15-17-17-34 because it's snappier day to day without too many volts

Seems like the sweet spot


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> I never said that 15-19-19 timings are what i consider tight. Im talking about C12 at 3866mhz or higher. You will never achieve that with 1.5 volts.


Oh gotcha







.

I run 3866Mhz with 1.45vdimm/ 1.25vccsa and 4000Mhz with 1.5v/1.3vccsa @ 16-16-16-36-1T.

I can also run 3866Mhz CL12 with 1.8v and 4000Mhz cl12 @1.9v.


----------



## Ding23

When trying to get tighter DDR4 timings should I just lower 1 at a time from the XMP timings and test? And try to get the lowest most important timing first stable like 1t, then move on to the tCL then tRCD tRP? Is there some calculation I should know about the tRAS or just get that as low as I can stable too?


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Oh gotcha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I run 3866Mhz with 1.45vdimm/ 1.25vccsa and 4000Mhz with 1.5v/1.3vccsa @ 16-16-16-36-1T.
> 
> I can also run 3866Mhz CL12 with 1.8v and 4000Mhz cl12 @1.9v.


Yes what you have shown is very achievable for 1.45 volts, at those timings.

However, you must even admit yourself, that the timings you have at 3866/4000mhz C16, are extremely loose though and that if you were to tighten them, that you would require more than 1.5 volts.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Oh gotcha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I run 3866Mhz with 1.45vdimm/ 1.25vccsa and 4000Mhz with 1.5v/1.3vccsa @ 16-16-16-36-1T.
> 
> I can also run 3866Mhz CL12 with 1.8v and 4000Mhz cl12 @1.9v.


whats ur vccio at that?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yes what you have shown is very achievable for 1.45 volts, at those timings.
> 
> However, you must even admit yourself, that the timings you have at 3866/4000mhz C16, are extremely loose though and that if you were to tighten them, that you would require more than 1.5 volts.


@ 3866Mhz those timing are almost as tight as they get.
for 4000Mhz those were all default and probably could of used less voltage
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> whats ur vccio at that?


1.2v - 1.25v vccio


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> @ 3866Mhz those timing are almost as tight as they get.
> for 4000Mhz those were all default and probably could of used less voltage
> 1.2v - 1.25v vccio


The secondary/tertiary timings you have for 3866 C16 are not too bad, but they can be tightened more, especially the RTL's and IOL's, as well as some of the tertiaries. This would then require the voltage to be increased.

However, I was just commenting in general about all the timings being loose at 3866 and 4000 and that in order to achieve faster performance at higher frequencies and maintain tight timings, you do need more than 1.5 volts.

Otherwise in all honesty, running at 3600mhz for example, at C13-C14 with tight secondaries and tertiaries, would outperform 3866 at C16 with looser timings and defeats the purpose of increasing your ram frequency.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> The secondary/tertiary timings you have for 3866 C16 are not too bad, but they can be tightened more, especially the RTL's and IOL's, as well as some of the tertiaries. This would then require the voltage to be increased.
> 
> However, I was just commenting in general about all the timings being loose at 3866 and 4000 and that in order to achieve faster performance at higher frequencies and maintain tight timings, you do need more than 1.5 volts.
> 
> Otherwise in all honesty, running at 3600mhz for example, at C13-C14 with tight secondaries and tertiaries, would outperform 3866 at C16 with looser timings and defeats the purpose of increasing your ram frequency.


If you have 3600 results at those timings or better with HCI stability feel free to show them


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> The secondary/tertiary timings you have for 3866 C16 are not too bad, but they can be tightened more, especially the RTL's and IOL's, as well as some of the tertiaries. This would then require the voltage to be increased.
> 
> However, I was just commenting in general about all the timings being loose at 3866 and 4000 and that in order to achieve faster performance at higher frequencies and maintain tight timings, you do need more than 1.5 volts.
> 
> Otherwise in all honesty, running at 3600mhz for example, at C13-C14 with tight secondaries and tertiaries, would outperform 3866 at C16 with looser timings and defeats the purpose of increasing your ram frequency.


Running 3600Mhz with cl13 will probably need around 1.5v just for that one timing alone. lol I have done all the testing and right now this is the best performance with my current settings, until i decide to further tweak them.

Trust me man i know what im doing i have played with just about every ddr4 ic that's been available.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If you have 3600 results at those timings or better with HCI stability feel free to show them


Unfortunately I simply don't have any benching results for 3600mhz, as I normally bench at 3866mhz or higher, at 12-12-12-28-1T, as does everyone else on Hwbot.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Unfortunately I simply don't have any benching results for 3600mhz, as I normally bench at 3866mhz or higher, at 12-12-12-28-1T, as does everyone else on Hwbot.


You can link your HWBot profile on your OCN profile page.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Running 3600Mhz with cl13 will probably need around 1.5v just for that one timing alone. lol I have done all the testing and right now this is the best performance with my current settings, until i decide to further tweak them.
> 
> Trust me man i know what im doing i have played with just about every ddr4 ic that's been available.


Just for comparison, this is at 3600mhz C13 and as you can see, 3600mhz with tighter timings, is giving faster memory read and copy speeds, with less latency, than 3866mhz at C16.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Unfortunately I simply don't have any benching results for 3600mhz, as I normally bench at 3866mhz or higher, at 12-12-12-28-1T, as does everyone else on Hwbot.


That's not what I asked







.

Lilchronic is showing you HCI stability results at a given setting


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Oh gotcha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I run 3866Mhz with 1.45vdimm/ 1.25vccsa and 4000Mhz with 1.5v/1.3vccsa @ 16-16-16-36-1T.
> 
> I can also run 3866Mhz CL12 with 1.8v and 4000Mhz cl12 @1.9v.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


ah, z170?


but this was the question asked:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I did not think 3850mhz was possible in "*bench*" (ram at 1.5xV) with a 5960X


Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## Praz

Hello

Giving memory setup advice for 6 minute runs of SuperPi should be done in a different thread. As the title of this thread states memory stability is the topic and it should be stuck to. Advising people to set benching timings/voltages when 24/7 stability is being sought is useless. I understand one's desire to stroke things such as their ego but do it somewhere else.


----------



## MattBaneLM

I must have missed something

Didn't people just compare to benching?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone!


No smoking please!! Happy Holidays!


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ah, z170?
> 
> 
> but this was the question asked:
> Merry Christmas everyone!


Nice run. It does say 1.5v which I don't find that so hard to believe.









... Merry Christmas


----------



## Arctucas

1.43V in BIOS, 1.47V in Windows



Still looking for improvement. Suggestions, comments?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> 1.43V in BIOS, 1.47V in Windows
> 
> 
> 
> Still looking for improvement. Suggestions, comments?


Try tightening up the iol's and rtl's.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Try tightening up the iol's and rtl's.


Not available in the BIOS.


----------



## MattBaneLM

thanks to TK's help i got apb in 32m pi today

rep +


----------



## MattBaneLM

dble post
keeps happening


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> Not available in the BIOS.


Really your BIOS has no RTL and IOL settings at all ?

That's really strange for an overclocking board.


----------



## MattBaneLM

dont the rtls adjust based on CL and tCWL?


----------



## Arctucas

That is eVGA...

.



Just enough 'features' to allow overclocking.

This board was a warranty replacement for my X58 that failed after six years.

I would have much preferred an AsRock OC like you have


----------



## Arctucas

Deleted, double post.

Now it is happening to me...?!?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> dont the rtls adjust based on CL and tCWL?


RTLs and IOLs also lower based on DRAM CLK Period. I put it as low as it'll go and still boot.

This is my 128GB LPX Ram on Auto and on DRAM Clk Period 4.


----------



## MattBaneLM

sigh
Again..


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> dont the rtls adjust based on CL and tCWL?
> 
> 
> 
> RTLs and IOLs also lower based on DRAM CLK Period. I put it as low as it'll go and still boot.
> 
> This is my 128GB LPX Ram on Auto and on DRAM Clk Period 4.
Click to expand...

Actually, this isn't good advice. I found as low as it goes it drops a channel.

At DRAM CLK Period 5 it finds all the channels but AIDA64 Cache and Memory Test I get just over 74k.

At DRAM CLK Period 9 the RTLs and IOLs are the same as 5, but it changes some third timings and I get almost 78k in same Cache And Memory Test.

So you need to mess with it a bit to find what works for you.


----------



## MattBaneLM

What's with these periods

I don't have that ability unless it's got diff name


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> What's with these periods
> 
> I don't have that ability unless it's got diff name


Have you checked the manual?


----------



## MattBaneLM

What's with these periods

I don't have that ability unless it's got
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Have you checked the manual?


spent a lot of time in my bios and manual doesnt have an area for it...

is it a diff name on asrock bios?

first time i have ever seen reference to the period time


----------



## MattBaneLM

looked it up and google didnt flood me with references to dram clk period but thats what asus calls it i believe

if anyone knows what asrock call it that would be helpful


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> What's with these periods
> 
> I don't have that ability unless it's got
> spent a lot of time in my bios and manual doesnt have an area for it...
> 
> is it a diff name on asrock bios?
> 
> first time i have ever seen reference to the period time


From what i have seen, Dram Clock Period is a setting only found on Asus boards.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> From what i have seen, Dram Clock Period is a setting only found on Asus boards.


ty bud i was just about to PM you about it on ur OCF. haha

is it true that asrock owners are like americans? ie: they think the world is america... and the world uses asus...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> ty bud i was just about to PM you about it on ur OCF. haha
> 
> is it true that asrock owners are like americans? ie: they think the world is america... and the world uses asus...


kedarwolf is talking about tCKE. which is not the same as ASUS Dram Clock Period (13 for z170, 24 for x99... best to just leave it on auto for 99.9% of the time)


----------



## MattBaneLM

tcke i lowered from 8 to 6

been working on ram timings with tk via pm

tightened a lot of em and hes beena great help to me hitting some pb's



tried to achieve this..

1t timings look out of reach.. and the 21 and 19 suggested third timings had to become 22 and 20 nut a good improvement..

and much respect to you jpm. didnt realise i was in the presence of royalty *bow*


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> tcke i lowered from 8 to 6
> 
> been working on ram timings with tk via pm
> 
> tightened a lot of em and hes beena great help to me hitting some pb's
> 
> 
> 
> tried to achieve this..
> 
> 1t timings look out of reach.. and the 21 and 19 suggested third timings had to become 22 and 20 nut a good improvement..
> 
> and much respect to you jpm. didnt realise i was in the presence of royalty *bow*


Royality? lol, you got me mixed up with someone else.








those timings in red are for benching only.. right? if not, they really won't hold up since there are several timing errors... eg, tRAS= tCL+ttRCD+ tRDD, FAW is too low also (should be 4x tRTP). Sometimes setting the board/chipset minimums can yield a short-term "flash bench" benefit, but for the most part, these timing errors are corrected by the MB/Bios/MIcrocode (and the substituted value does not show up in any of the OS tools like Asrock TC).


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Royality? lol, you got me mixed up with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those timings in red are for benching only.. right? if not, they really won't hold up since there are several timing errors... eg, tRAS= tCL+ttRCD+ tRDD, FAW is too low also (should be 4x tRTP). Sometimes setting the board/chipset minimums can yield a short-term "flash bench" benefit, but for the most part, these timing errors are corrected by the MB/Bios/MIcrocode (and the substituted value does not show up in any of the OS tools like Asrock TC).


Are you not the elite overclocker on hwbot?

Only tests I have been running for now are 32m Pi and Realbench which run well but yeah for benching

My volts are maxed
Stupid mobo

Ps just got it to run Pi the same as above but with 14-17-17-28 2t but only a 1 second difference
Wow

I'll see what if it will survive an xtu run


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Are you not the elite overclocker on hwbot?
> 
> Only tests I have been running for now are 32m Pi and Realbench which run well but yeah for benching
> 
> My volts are maxed
> Stupid mobo
> 
> Ps just got it to run Pi the same as above but with 14-17-17-28 2t but only a 1 second difference
> Wow
> 
> I'll see what if it will survive an xtu run


if for benching, the sequence with which you put timing changes into effect can make a significant difference (and disable any training by the board). EG, rtls then lower tRCD. for SPi, the OS matters most... XP. Win7 will be slower. 32bit OS only when the ram gets real tight (even limiting Windows10x64 to 4GB of ram - with msconfig - is a must).


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if for benching, the sequence with which you put timing changes into effect can make a significant difference (and disable any training by the board). EG, rtls then lower tRCD. for SPi, the OS matters most... XP. Win7 will be slower. 32bit OS only when the ram gets real tight (even limiting Windows10x64 to 4GB of ram - with msconfig - is a must).


yeah i know im not using the best os but didnt know 32 bit was better... so much yet to learn
what do you mean rtl's then lower tRCD?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> ty bud i was just about to PM you about it on ur OCF. haha
> 
> is it true that asrock owners are like americans? ie: they think the world is america... and the world uses asus...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kedarwolf is talking about tCKE. which is not the same as ASUS Dram Clock Period (13 for z170, 24 for x99... best to just leave it on auto for 99.9% of the time)
Click to expand...

No, I'm not talking about tCKE I think.

DRAM CLK Period.


----------



## MattBaneLM

hmmmm i have gone down to 12-18-18-28 2t and no improvement over cl 15


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> dont the rtls adjust based on CL and tCWL?


And IOLs yes.

Most OCing boards still feature manual control over these timings, and some degree of tuning is usually possible.

My 5820K/X99 SOC Champion setup runs the IOLs at 4, which is half of the default, and shaves 4 off my RTLs. This is unconditionally stable on this particular setup and makes a fairly appreciable difference in memory performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> if anyone knows what asrock call it that would be helpful


My ASRock X99 OC Formula has direct control of IOL/RTL in the third timings option of the memory settings.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> tcke i lowered from 8 to 6


tCKE is a power down setting and won't do anything on systems without memory power saving features enabled.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> No, I'm not talking about tCKE I think.
> 
> DRAM CLK Period.


I stand corrected - yeah you are!
lol - that's working with 2666? pretty far off the reservation for quad channel.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> yeah i know im not using the best os but didnt know 32 bit was better... so much yet to learn
> what do you mean rtl's then lower tRCD?


IF you start setting RTLs and IOLs manually,it's best to get all other timings at a given frequency tuned in before adjusting these. That's all.
if you haven;t already, check these:
http://hwbot.org/newsflash/3939_xtreme_addicts_ultimate_tweaking_guide_for_b_die_memory_on_asus_maximus_viii_boards
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=156368
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427

oh - and when playing with memory.. *BE SURE* to have a good image of your OS. Ram can foul the OS like nothing else can.


----------



## KedarWolf

Never satisfied with my stable overclock at what it is, this is my new results by messing with BLCK. 5960x, 128GB Corsair LPX RAM.

Ignore that Asrock RAM speed reading, it's always wrong with my Sabertooth X99, it's at 2690MHZ.

Edit: My voltages are only marginally higher then CPU at 4.7GHZ.


















Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> tCKE is a power down setting and won't do anything on systems without memory power saving features enabled.


Lowering tCKE does make a different in performance for certain benchmarks like XTU for example.

Fifth post onwards and post 248 - http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=462959&highlight=tCKE#post462959


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> No, I'm not talking about tCKE I think.
> 
> DRAM CLK Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand corrected - yeah you are!
> lol - that's working with 2666? pretty far off the reservation for quad channel.
Click to expand...

I'm at CLK Period 8 now and totally RealBench and StressAppTest stable.









Is my AIDA Cache And Memory Test, not too shabby for 128GB. Deleted my 100GB in RAM disks, rebooted and ran AIDA again.



Okay, off to pick up my MX Cherry Silent keyboard, according to reviews they are good for quieter switches.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> IF you start setting RTLs and IOLs manually,it's best to get all other timings at a given frequency tuned in before adjusting these. That's all.
> if you haven;t already, check these:
> http://hwbot.org/newsflash/3939_xtreme_addicts_ultimate_tweaking_guide_for_b_die_memory_on_asus_maximus_viii_boards
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=156368
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
> 
> oh - and when playing with memory.. *BE SURE* to have a good image of your OS. Ram can foul the OS like nothing else can.


That first guide for asus and b die any good to me? I'm asrock and e die


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> That first guide for asus and b die any good to me? I'm asrock and e die


That's what my rtls are are in bios


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> That's what my rtls are are in bios


you can try setting rtl A to 50 and rtl B to 51, leave the 21-21-14-14 as is.


----------



## Menthol

Are you adding Kaby Lake to this thread? Not sure how many more columns you can add, you already have a lot of info
The early reviews all mentioned 5.0 @ 1.35 volts, my retail chip completes RealBench at those settings, can validate 5.1 at same voltage, will play with memory soon, most early reviews say the IMC seems to have improved, this is on my M8E with an AIO
Reluctant to post any more, although I purchased my chip retail a couple weeks ago and just got a bios that allowed full functionality today


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Are you adding Kaby Lake to this thread? Not sure how many more columns you can add, you already have a lot of info
> The early reviews all mentioned 5.0 @ 1.35 volts, my retail chip completes RealBench at those settings, can validate 5.1 at same voltage, will play with memory soon, most early reviews say the IMC seems to have improved, this is on my M8E with an AIO
> Reluctant to post any more, although I purchased my chip retail a couple weeks ago and just got a bios that allowed full functionality today


Not sure if the op is still updating. I posted some submissions a while ago and they have yet to be updated.

You have a kabylake cpu? And you bough it retail?


----------



## Menthol

Is Scone slacking off again?

Yes they have been listed for several weeks here
http://www.pcconnection.com/product/intel-processor-core-i7-7700k/bx80677i77700k/33136801?cac=Result

They seem to always have new processors before official release date, not the lowest price but not overly priced, I'll through some high speed mem sticks on the board tomorrow and see what happens, I have Gskill 8GB 4000mhz kit x2 and a Gskill 32GB 3600 16-16-16 kit to play with
The bios that was advertised to support Kaby "2002" did boot but did not allow raising, blck, multi, or voltage, bios 3007 does it all and has an option for speed shift, not that I care about that

I am not good at mem timings. hopefully there are some presets that get me close with minimal tweaking

What are the latest-est greatest kits out at this time?


----------



## lilchronic

I'm looking to get a 7350k and they don't seem to have any.


----------



## rt123

Lilchronic, you might need to be patient with the 7350K. It is supposed to have a bit of a "delayed launch", will come sometime after the i5/i7s.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> What are the latest-est greatest kits out at this time?


https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007611%2050008476%20601190328%20601203957%20601275375

Might have trouble with XMP on non 2DIMM or even 2DIMM boards tho.

You can wait for these to come back then

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232465

There's those 4133 kits, but they pale in comparison to either of the above.









Curious as to what the Batch # of your chip is? Want to see how retail is looking in the US, batch wise.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Are you adding Kaby Lake to this thread? Not sure how many more columns you can add, you already have a lot of info
> The early reviews all mentioned 5.0 @ 1.35 volts, my retail chip completes RealBench at those settings, can validate 5.1 at same voltage, will play with memory soon, most early reviews say the IMC seems to have improved, this is on my M8E with an AIO
> Reluctant to post any more, although I purchased my chip retail a couple weeks ago and just got a bios that allowed full functionality today


Yes Kaby results will be added. May add recent results soon, but we have enough of a data source there for it to be useful already on existing CPU!

Kaby should bring some upper echelon results to the table hopefully.


----------



## D13mass

Guys, which voltage is OK for ram on 6700k for 24/7 ?
I have 2*16gb Kingston fury x kit, with xmp 15-15-15-35 2T 1.2 V


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Guys, which voltage is OK for ram on 6700k for 24/7 ?
> I have 2*16gb Kingston fury x kit, with xmp 15-15-15-35 2T 1.2 V


Under 1.45v


----------



## Silent Scone

If any results posted in the last few weeks would like to go on the chart please re-post them and I'll add them now. I will be going through the pages shortly, but would make things easier. Thanks!


----------



## MattBaneLM

I've been working on 1.50 for my E-Die, what IC's are those he has? same?

thats that fury kit that overclocks from 2666 to over 4000 isn't it? great value locally here that one....


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> I've been working on 1.50 for my E-Die, what IC's are those he has? same?
> 
> thats that fury kit that overclocks from 2666 to over 4000 isn't it? great value locally here that one....


If 1.5v is the limit you've set yourself, then go with it. Should be fine, I just wouldn't stray too far over from this.


----------



## MattBaneLM

ok ty bro. lots of airflow...

i suppose i was also saying it would depend on which IC's you have as to what you would use 24/7 is that right?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> ok ty bro. lots of airflow...
> 
> i suppose i was also saying it would depend on which IC's you have as to what you would use 24/7 is that right?


This is perceptible more by how they scale (freq/timings) in terms of voltage than it is by what is safe


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is perceptible more by how they scale (freq/timings) in terms of voltage than it is by what is safe


Are you saying that you could run high volts say 2.0 through most and not much chance of harm? That the reason you wouldn't is that it would be detrimental to the stability due to noise?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Are you saying that you could run high volts say 2.0 through most and not much chance of harm? That the reason you wouldn't is that it would be detrimental to the stability due to noise?


No, you were connecting a relationship between what is a safe voltage to run on different ICs. The only relationship worth noting is how the different IC respond to voltage, the maximum safe voltage for 24/7 use should be considered the same on all of them. Certainly not 2v.

Knock yourself out, though. If that's what you took from that...lol


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Is Scone slacking off again?
> 
> Yes they have been listed for several weeks here
> http://www.pcconnection.com/product/intel-processor-core-i7-7700k/bx80677i77700k/33136801?cac=Result
> 
> They seem to always have new processors before official release date, not the lowest price but not overly priced, I'll through some high speed mem sticks on the board tomorrow and see what happens, I have Gskill 8GB 4000mhz kit x2 and a Gskill 32GB 3600 16-16-16 kit to play with
> The bios that was advertised to support Kaby "2002" did boot but did not allow raising, blck, multi, or voltage, bios 3007 does it all and has an option for speed shift, not that I care about that
> 
> I am not good at mem timings. hopefully there are some presets that get me close with minimal tweaking
> 
> What are the latest-est greatest kits out at this time?


you just had to post this didn't you.











gonna have to plug that into the M8I.


----------



## Silent Scone

It's been brought to my attention that BASH terminal is now native to Windows 10. What this means is, if you prefer you can run Stressapptest through it.

Follow the instructions here:

http://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/

Once you have done this, enter these commands in descending order minus the quotations in order to install stressapp.

"sudo apt-get install stressapptest"

"sudo apt update stressapptest"

"sudo upgrade stressapptest"

This will ensure you are running the latest version.


----------



## Jpmboy

corrected.


----------



## Silent Scone

Oops, ta


----------



## Kimir

Neat, add that on OP for w10 users.


----------



## Silent Scone

Will do when I can. I've been requesting the OP to be re-opened for editing but it's yet to happen.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's been brought to my attention that BASH terminal is now native to Windows 10. What this means is, if you prefer you can run Stressapptest through it.
> 
> Follow the instructions here:
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/
> 
> Once you have done this, enter these commands in descending order minus the quotations in order to install stressapp.
> 
> "sudo apt-get install stressapptest"
> 
> "sudo apt update stressapptest"
> 
> "sudo upgrade stressapptest"
> 
> This will ensure you are running the latest version.


Now you tell me, after I had done all that Googling to figure it out!
















And you changed your name! (well, your thread name anyway) Well, it's definitely a New Year


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Oops, ta


it's running fine on the R5E10, my R5E/5960X rig is not update to w10ann, since when I rtied some time ago, it was a problem with my install of the aquaero I think. will have ot look into that again. Still, puppyLinux is just too easy.









Nice stuff!


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> No, you were connecting a relationship between what is a safe voltage to run on different ICs. The only relationship worth noting is how the different IC respond to voltage, the maximum safe voltage for 24/7 use should be considered the same on all of them. Certainly not 2v.
> 
> Knock yourself out, though. If that's what you took from that...lol


Nah all good lol

Was just clarifying something in my own head
Wasn't trying to be adrasive or anything


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Will do when I can. I've been requesting the OP to be re-opened for editing but it's yet to happen.


did you PM "Enterprise"?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Nah all good lol
> 
> Was just clarifying something in my own head
> Wasn't trying to be adrasive or anything


what are you reaching for with the ram kit in your sig?


----------



## Jpmboy

Bash works fine:

IN test for. 1 hour run


Done:


used this command: _stressapptest -W -M 57344 -s 3600_


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> used this command: _stressapptest -W -M 57344 -s 3600_


Did the auto mem allocation not work for you? (auto means just leaving out the -M switch)


----------



## djgar

OK, I installed bash and stressapp, but "sudo apt update" gave me a "does not take arguments" error, so I ran it without the stressapp argument, and "sudo upgrade" gave me a "sudo: upgrade: command not found" error.


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's been brought to my attention that BASH terminal is now native to Windows 10. What this means is, if you prefer you can run Stressapptest through it.
> 
> Follow the instructions here:
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/
> 
> Once you have done this, enter these commands in descending order minus the quotations in order to install stressapp.
> 
> "sudo apt-get install stressapptest"
> 
> "sudo apt update stressapptest"
> 
> "sudo upgrade stressapptest"
> 
> This will ensure you are running the latest version.


Haha.. and get memory corruption on an already fragile Windows 10? No thanks.... but yeah Ubuntu on Windows is super nice though.

Typo on the commands tho?.. Here's an easy one liner to install stressapp..

Code:



Code:


sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install stressapptest;

or this if you wish to update other system packages along with installing stressapp

Code:



Code:


sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade; sudo apt-get install stressapptest;


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Haha.. and get memory corruption on an already fragile Windows 10? No thanks.... but yeah Ubuntu on Windows is super nice though.


There is that, yes. As obviously most users here it will be their primary install. There are always backups, but it's optional - Mint may be more convenient for some.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> There is that, yes. As obviously most users here it will be their primary install. There are always backups, but it's optional - Mint may be more convenient for some.


It's working for me, other than those events above.



OTOH, this is not my working Windows partition, but my stress testing partition on a separate SSD.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Did the auto mem allocation not work for you? (auto means just leaving out the -M switch)


I noticed that while just on the desktop with all "normal" apps/services running this rig uses over 4GB. so I figured I'd commit 57GB to the run. lol - I guess i do not need the -M argument.


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah, depending on what's open, auto allocation can get a bit hairy lol.


----------



## djgar

My stress testing Windows uses ~1800MB after loading Bash. Now that I have stressapp running with the Aida OSD panel, I see my high DIMM temp is ~51c.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> My stress testing Windows uses ~1800MB after loading Bash. Now that I have stressapp running with the Aida OSD panel, I see my high DIMM temp is ~51c.


that's warm.. getting up there, but well within normal operating range for ddr4


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's warm.. getting up there, but well within normal operating rage for ddr4


Yeah. Two sticks are 50-51 and two 44-45. It's that airflow thing


----------



## D13mass

Guys, where I can find manual for overclock my ram ?
I have 2*16gb 2400mhz Kingston fury x kit, with xmp 15-15-15-35 2T 1.2 V and 6700k


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Guys, where I can find manual for overclock my ram ?
> I have 2*16gb 2400mhz Kingston fury x kit, with xmp 15-15-15-35 2T 1.2 V and 6700k


Try the OP's first post on page 1.


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Try the OP's first post on page 1.


Sorry, what exactly?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Sorry, what exactly?


What exactly do you want to know?


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What exactly do you want to know?


Manual or how to correctly overclock memory. I don't know what is "OP's"


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Manual or how to correctly overclock memory. I don't know what is "OP's"


OP=Original Post.

Check the ROG timing guide within it to get a basic idea of what the key timings do.


----------



## Jpmboy

ugh.. installed a 4266c19-19-19-38 ram kit and set it at 4000c16 @ 1.425V.... threw 1 error after 200%. daaum. Back to the drawing board.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ugh.. installed a 4266c19-19-19-38 ram kit and set it at 4000c16 @ 1.425V.... threw 1 error after 200%. daaum. Back to the drawing board.


Z170 I presume?


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> OP=Original Post.
> 
> Check the ROG timing guide within it to get a basic idea of what the key timings do.


Thank you, now I know this abbreviation.
I spent a few hours for find stability after bios update, something strange with my memory, how guys can run it with 4000 Mhz?







What is the secret?


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Thank you, now I know this abbreviation.
> I spent a few hours for find stability after bios update, something strange with my memory, how guys can run it with 4000 Mhz?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the secret?


You need a 2 DIMM Z170 board, to run 4000mhz or higher at stable tight timings.

4 DIMM Z170 boards, struggle with anything above 3866mhz.


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> You need a 2 DIMM Z170 board, to run 4000mhz or higher at stable tight timings.
> 
> 4 DIMM Z170 boards, struggle with anything above 3866mhz.


I have 2x16Gb


----------



## Silent Scone

What kit?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Z170 I presume?


oh yeah.. not even worth trying on x99.


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What kit?


To be precise:
Kingston Technology HyperX FURY Black 32 GB Kit CL15 2400Mhz


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> To be precise:
> Kingston Technology HyperX FURY Black 32 GB Kit CL15 2400Mhz


Therein lies the rub. Big DIMMs and a low bin. You're not going to get that kit to 4000Mhz


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Therein lies the rub. Big DIMMs and a low bin. You're not going to get that kit to 4000Mhz


Oh, I see, but yesterday I could run only
2800 (16-16-16-36) 2T 1.35V








Here is my post http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/10460#post_25757886
Something strange with overclock this memory


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Oh, I see, but yesterday I could run only
> 2800 (16-16-16-36) 2T 1.35V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my post http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/10460#post_25757886
> Something strange with overclock this memory


I doubt it was ever stable to begin with. You need to lower your expectations with that kit, and test with GSAT and HCI.


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I doubt it was ever stable to begin with. You need to lower your expectations with that kit, and test with GSAT and HCI.


Sounds bad, for me 1 priority - stability work, but I wanted to make a little overclock.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Sounds bad, for me 1 priority - stability work, but I wanted to make a little overclock.


Test stability with one or both methods in the original post at XMP first


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Test stability with one or both methods in the original post at XMP first


Let`s imagine I have done








Scenario 1 - failed, I will try to ask replacement from amazon (yep?)
Scenario 2 - pass, and ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Let`s imagine I have done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scenario 1 - failed, I will try to ask replacement from amazon (yep?)
> Scenario 2 - pass, and ...


are you saying that the kit does not pass stability at SPD or XMP? The later is not warranted by Amazon (tho they may exchange a kit for no reason). Is that kit on the QVL list for the MSI MB?
The steps are to:

1) run the kit at SPD (no overclock) and verify that the kit performs to spec
2) try XMP, if it is not stable to HCi MEMTEST or GSAT, you may need to adjust voltages on the CPU since any ram speed above SPD is an overclock for the CPU (yes, xmp is an overclock).
3) then.. recognize that high density 16GB sticks are going to be a challenge to run with real stability at speeds higher than the XMP.
4) and last, make sure you have a recent system image handy - playing with ram that far off it's rated speed and timings can bring you a surprise or two.


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> You need a 2 DIMM Z170 board, to run 4000mhz or higher at stable tight timings.
> 
> 4 DIMM Z170 boards, struggle with anything above 3866mhz.


Or a good z270 board.


----------



## Menthol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ugh.. installed a 4266c19-19-19-38 ram kit and set it at 4000c16 @ 1.425V.... threw 1 error after 200%. daaum. Back to the drawing board.


I ordered a kit of these yesterday, want to make sure I'm all decked out for when my Z-270 board arrives, don't even know which model board yet


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> I ordered a kit of these yesterday, want to make sure I'm all decked out for when my Z-270 board arrives, don't even know which model board yet


Memory prices are on the up, so best to get in now. I've been hovering over a few of the 4000+ kits this morning.


----------



## cookiesowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Memory prices are on the up, so best to get in now. I've been hovering over a few of the 4000+ kits this morning.


What are your thoughts on the corsair SE dominators. They sure do look good.

I wonder with Z270 what's the most optimal frequency to timining bin. 3600 @ C14?


----------



## spddmn24

How much does a motherboard impact ram overclocking? I can't get my trident z stable at the xmp setting of 3400 wth 1.25 sa and 1.20 io voltage. Should I just set them to auto and let the motherboard jack up the voltage? Motherboard is an msi z170a krait gaming, and the ram had the same issues with my 6700k and now 7700k. I really don't like my motherboard since it has non existent llc for the CPU oc too, kind of tempted to upgrade if it will help lower CPU voltage and get some more out of my ram.

:edit:

Scratch that, not even stable at 3333.

Trying Auto now. sa 1.296 io 1.288


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> How much does a motherboard impact ram overclocking? I can't get my trident z stable at the xmp setting of 3400 wth 1.25 sa and 1.20 io voltage. Should I just set them to auto and let the motherboard jack up the voltage? Motherboard is an msi z170a krait gaming, and the ram had the same issues with my 6700k and now 7700k. I really don't like my motherboard since it has non existent llc for the CPU oc too, kind of tempted to upgrade if it will help lower CPU voltage and get some more out of my ram.
> 
> :edit:
> 
> Scratch that, not even stable at 3333.
> 
> Trying Auto now. sa 1.296 io 1.288


Normally the motherboard specification will tell you what the maximum operational frequency is.


----------



## spddmn24

It goes up to 4133 in the bios. Does the motherboard have any impact on the stability of the ram?


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> It goes up to 4133 in the bios. Does the motherboard have any impact on the stability of the ram?


Yes, it definitely does.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> What are your thoughts on the corsair SE dominators. They sure do look good.
> 
> I wonder with Z270 what's the most optimal frequency to timining bin. 3600 @ C14?


Not looked at those, got my eye on GSKILL


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telstar*
> 
> Yes, it definitely does.


Any recommendations on a z270 motherboard? I have an asus for my work computer and was able to run vcore .03 lower than my msi board with the same processor and same frequency so I'm leaning towards asus. The ROG STRIX Z270H GAMING has caught my eye.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Any recommendations on a z270 motherboard? I have an asus for my work computer and was able to run vcore .03 lower than my msi board with the same processor and same frequency so I'm leaning towards asus. The ROG STRIX Z270H GAMING has caught my eye.


One of the ROG offerings, but if looking to use 4000Mhz+ memory, the Apex is the board of choice.


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> One of the ROG offerings, but if looking to use 4000Mhz+ memory, the Apex is the board of choice.


Going to stick with my 3400 trident z, no plans for 4000+ unless prices come way down. Would be nice to be able to at least run at advertised speeds or possibly oc it further.


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> are you saying that the kit does not pass stability at SPD or XMP? The later is not warranted by Amazon (tho they may exchange a kit for no reason). Is that kit on the QVL list for the MSI MB?
> The steps are to:
> 
> 1) run the kit at SPD (no overclock) and verify that the kit performs to spec
> 2) try XMP, if it is not stable to HCi MEMTEST or GSAT, you may need to adjust voltages on the CPU since any ram speed above SPD is an overclock for the CPU (yes, xmp is an overclock).
> 3) then.. recognize that high density 16GB sticks are going to be a challenge to run with real stability at speeds higher than the XMP.
> 4) and last, make sure you have a recent system image handy - playing with ram that far off it's rated speed and timings can bring you a surprise or two.


Hi! Thanks for advice, I installed on USB MemTest86 and run it once with all kit, the result was - no errors.

So I setup 3000 Mhz 16-18-18-40 2T ram voltage = 1.39V and CPU I/O = 1.20 V and VCCSA = 1.25 V, system booted fine, I have run RunMemTest Pro v2.5 it`s the same tests like here http://hcidesign.com/memtest/ but all windows will be automatically located.
And all tests were fine, I have been working all day with this settings (3000 Mhz 16-18-18-40 2T), even played in Hitman, but during the last reboot system couldn`t boot, any attempts I saw "press F1 because your OC isn`t stable blah-blah-blah". It`s really strange.

I had to try again to search for "stability"...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Hi! Thanks for advice, I installed on USB MemTest86 and run it once with all kit, the result was - no errors.
> 
> So I setup 3000 Mhz 16-18-18-40 2T ram voltage = 1.39V and CPU I/O = 1.20 V and VCCSA = 1.25 V, system booted fine, I have run RunMemTest Pro v2.5 it`s the same tests like here http://hcidesign.com/memtest/ but all windows will be automatically located.
> And all tests were fine, I have been working all day with this settings (3000 Mhz 16-18-18-40 2T), even played in Hitman, but during the last reboot system couldn`t boot, any attempts I saw "press F1 because your OC isn`t stable blah-blah-blah". It`s really strange.
> 
> I had to try again to search for "stability"...


Did you check to see which Q-Code was displayed? With XMP enabled, this is where you need to run the tests in the original post.


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Most boards
> Did you check to see which Q-Code was displayed? With XMP enabled, this is where you need to run the tests in the original post.


Sorry for my english, but what is the "Q-Code" ? If you mean when system shows me on black screen ? - nothing, only message and list of my profiles from motherboard.

I definitely will not buy MSI motherboard anymore.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D13mass*
> 
> Sorry for my english, but what is the "Q-Code" ? If you mean when system shows me on black screen ? - nothing, only message and list of my profiles from motherboard.
> 
> I definitely will not buy MSI motherboard anymore.


Q-Code (Asus name I think) is the error code in the motherboard's LED display. Maybe the instability is not memory related - could be CPU / IMC / cache.


----------



## D13mass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Q-Code (Asus name I think) is the error code in the motherboard's LED display. Maybe the instability is not memory related - could be CPU / IMC / cache.


Ah, I see, on MSI I see in this moment only 99 - that means Pc wont boot. no details.


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Going to stick with my 3400 trident z, no plans for 4000+ unless prices come way down. Would be nice to be able to at least run at advertised speeds or possibly oc it further.


Basically all z270 boards support 3600 without issues.
The 270h strix looks good but has no aura support (if that matters to u)


----------



## spddmn24

Is the 6 phase vrm on the z270h sufficient for the cpu overclocking? The z270F and E have 8 phase.


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Is the 6 phase vrm on the z270h sufficient for the cpu overclocking? The z270F and E have 8 phase.


Raja said yes for around 5ghz, but personally im going to get the Hero.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> I ordered a kit of these yesterday, want to make sure I'm all decked out for when my Z-270 board arrives, don't even know which model board yet


RealBench Competition prize. Enjoy!









The 4266c19 kit is very strong. Strangely enough, I stumbled upon a really good 3733c17 kit that so far has been able to keep pace with either the 3600c15 or this 4266c19 kit (tho with a little more voltage). I think there are some recent 8GB sticks available that are really quite good.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> RealBench Competition prize. Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 4266c19 kit is very strong. Strangely enough, I stumbled upon a really good 3733c17 kit that so far has been able to keep pace with either the 3600c15 or this 4266c19 kit (tho with a little more voltage). I think there are some recent 8GB sticks available that are really quite good.


Looking at getting the new Trident Z 4266C19 16GB (8GBx2) kit, can you confirm that it is definitely B-Die ?

Have you been able to run them at 12-12-12-28-1T or 12-11-11-28-1T at 4266?

If so, what SA, IO and DRAM voltages did you use to achieve C12 on those sticks ?

Have you overclocked them higher than 4266 and at what timings (C12,C13 or C14) ?

Currently have Trident Z 3600mhz C16 (8GBx 2) B-Die kit and I have run them at 4266 C12 on my OCFM, so I'm just seeing if it's worth getting this new kit or not ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Looking at getting the new Trident Z 4266C19 16GB (8GBx2) kit, can you confirm that it is definitely B-Die ?
> 
> Have you been able to run them at 12-12-12-28-1T or 12-11-11-28-1T at 4266?
> 
> If so, what SA, IO and DRAM voltages did you use to achieve C12 on those sticks ?
> 
> Have you overclocked them higher than 4266 and at what timings (C12,C13 or C14) ?
> 
> Currently have Trident Z 3600mhz C16 (8GBx 2) B-Die kit and I have run them at 4266 C12 on my OCFM, so I'm just seeing if it's worth getting this new kit or not ?


C12 probably isn't a realistic goal for the purpose of this thread, so asking JP if he has run them with that latency is probably fruitless. Do you have any stability results at those speeds and timings?


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> C12 probably isn't a realistic goal for the purpose of this thread, so asking JP if he has run them with that latency is probably fruitless. Do you have any stability results at those speeds and timings?


Yeah fair enough, I keep forgetting its a stability thread and not just a DDR4 memory thread.

No I haven't done the memory test on my board, been preoccupied with testing out my new 7700K cpu.

Will do those tests soon and report my results.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Yeah fair enough, I keep forgetting its a stability thread and not just a DDR4 memory thread.
> 
> No I haven't done the memory test on my board, been preoccupied with testing out my new 7700K cpu.
> 
> Will do those tests soon and report my results.


You'll have better luck asking about that over here http://www.overclock.net/t/1268061/ocn-ram-addict-club-gallery/7950_50#post_25762118


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Looking at getting the new Trident Z 4266C19 16GB (8GBx2) kit, can you confirm that it is definitely B-Die ?
> 
> Have you been able to run them at 12-12-12-28-1T or 12-11-11-28-1T at 4266?
> 
> If so, what SA, IO and DRAM voltages did you use to achieve C12 on those sticks ?
> 
> Have you overclocked them higher than 4266 and at what timings (C12,C13 or C14) ?
> 
> Currently have Trident Z 3600mhz C16 (8GBx 2) B-Die kit and I have run them at 4266 C12 on my OCFM, so I'm just seeing if it's worth getting this new kit or not ?


yes, they are B-die. not gonna try above 4266 until I get my z270 act together.









well... okay:

1.45V, not tested stability.


----------



## Silent Scone

Super speedy, eh.

I've just noticed that NewEgg UK actually has a reasonable selection now. That will be me sorted







...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Super speedy, eh.
> 
> I've just noticed that NewEgg UK actually has a reasonable selection now. That will be me sorted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah, just a quick try. I'm sure they can do 1T and a bit tighter. But these sticks are really for KBL - right?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, just a quick try. I'm sure they can do 1T and a bit tighter. But these sticks are really for KBL - right?


Mainly, I don't have the sticks to try on Skylake currently. Above 4133, might find is pushing the upper most limit too far (with these tests)


----------



## Seus

Hello All,

This is an extremely noob question but I was wondering the best way to get my RAM to it's rated speed. Should I enable XMP, or enter the DRAM timings and voltages manually? I'm using 4x8gb Gskillz 3200mhz. So far I have a stable overclock of my i7-6800k at 4.2ghz and 1.287v. SA offset is at .10 and reads about 1.104 max in Windows.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Mainly, I don't have the sticks to try on Skylake currently. Above 4133, might find is pushing the upper most limit too far (with these tests)


i think i got a pretty decent 7700k (retail). just getting started with it, and need to flash my M8I to the updated bios yet...

that vcore measures at 1.3V by dmm off the MB.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> This is an extremely noob question but I was wondering the best way to get my RAM to it's rated speed. Should I enable XMP, or enter the DRAM timings and voltages manually? I'm using 4x8gb Gskillz 3200mhz. So far I have a stable overclock of my i7-6800k at 4.2ghz and 1.287v. SA offset is at .10 and reads about 1.104 max in Windows.


Manually.


----------



## Menthol

@Jpmboy
Looks good, what board you using? curious because of the version of CPU-Z
Delidded yet? my temps dropped 20 degrees or more on XTU, now my chip does [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] XTU is all I have tested since delid, still waiting on mem and Z-270 board so not investing to much time until everything is together

I got to play with several Gigibyte systems with 770K's all were delidded and would do 5.0 on 1.3, they were all binned backups for the competition so I assume they weren't the best chips but still good
I had one complete XTU at 5.2 with 1.35 volts, surprisingly they wouldn't let me keep it. they had systems with AIO for demo to teach any beginner that may show up wanting to learn, olny a couple young lady's stepped up so they let the old man set down, first non ASUS bios I had seen in years and I was lost, not impressed with the bios


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> @Jpmboy
> Looks good, what board you using? curious because of the version of CPU-Z
> Delidded yet? my temps dropped 20 degrees or more on XTU, now my chip does [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] XTU is all I have tested since delid, still waiting on mem and Z-270 board so not investing to much time until everything is together
> 
> I got to play with several Gigibyte systems with 770K's all were delidded and would do 5.0 on 1.3, they were all binned backups for the competition so I assume they weren't the best chips but still good
> I had one complete XTU at 5.2 with 1.35 volts, surprisingly they wouldn't let me keep it. they had systems with AIO for demo to teach any beginner that may show up wanting to learn, olny a couple young lady's stepped up so they let the old man set down, first non ASUS bios I had seen in years and I was lost, not impressed with the bios


yeah, swapping vendors is like learning a new freakin language for Bios. Must have been fun tho. I haven't delidded yet - just got the cpu today and popped it into the z170 that was available (z170MOCF). Should be swapping in the M8I shortly - want to see what the ram can you there. One thing about the MOCF is DO NOT trust the reported voltages. It runs higher than what you set in bios - across the board. BUt basically it completes realbench 5x encode at 5100 with the same voltage as above.
I'm waiting to see when the Apex gets to retail... tick-tock-tick-tock.


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Manually.


Thanks. After I put in all the settings it wouldn't POST. There was an error code CC which I can't find in the manual or online for this motherboard.


----------



## Menthol

Q code CC means, F5 and start over, I've seen it numerous times, if you have a ASUS board with the red button push it to get into bios "safe boot"


----------



## Jpmboy

^^This and if you don;t have the red button, just hold down the restart button on your case for ~ 5sec until the system restarts (also will be safe mode).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> Thanks. After I put in all the settings it wouldn't POST. There was an error code CC which I can't find in the manual or online for this motherboard.


did you disable XMP?
What exact ram kit are you using?


----------



## Jpmboy

*New Entry*
jpmboy -- [email protected] --- AsRock z170M OCF -- 16GB [email protected] 4133c18-18-18-46-1T 1.425V(bios) 1.458V measured -- VSA 1.35V, VCCIO 1.25V --- 500% HCiMemtest


4266c19 kept throwing an (one) error at ~ 200% into the run. ugh!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> *New Entry*
> jpmboy -- [email protected] --- AsRock z170M OCF -- 16GB [email protected] 4133c18-18-18-46-1T 1.425V(bios) 1.458V measured -- VSA 1.35V, VCCIO 1.25V --- 500% HCiMemtest
> 
> 
> 4266c19 kept throwing an (one) error at ~ 200% into the run. ugh!


Did you delid your CPU, jpm?


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^This and if you don;t have the red button, just hold down the restart button on your case for ~ 5sec until the system restarts (also will be safe mode).
> did you disable XMP?
> What exact ram kit are you using?


Yes XMP is disabled. I tried it again and it wouldn't POST. Got back in BIOS and set it back to auto defaults. The kit is Gskillz F4-3200C16Q-32GTZKW


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> *New Entry*
> jpmboy -- [email protected] --- AsRock z170M OCF -- 16GB [email protected] 4133c18-18-18-46-1T 1.425V(bios) 1.458V measured -- VSA 1.35V, VCCIO 1.25V --- 500% HCiMemtest
> 
> 
> 4266c19 kept throwing an (one) error at ~ 200% into the run. ugh!


Nice









What Vcore on that CPU? [EDIT] Just seen your other post


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Did you delid your CPU, jpm?


no.. it really does not get that hot. max T with realbench is 70C at 5100 with less than 1.3V
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> Yes XMP is disabled. I tried it again and it wouldn't POST. Got back in BIOS and set it back to auto defaults. The kit is Gskillz F4-3200C16Q-32GTZKW


Great - some times you need to Load OPtimized Defaults or CLRCMOS to flush all bad background settings. So, with that, set AI tweaker to :Manual" and enter your OC fully manually. Set 3600 as the ram speed and timings 16-X-X exactly as they are for the XMP, and 1.375V VDIMM. With 32GB you may need ot increase System Agent (VCCSA) to 1.275V or so. Should work.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Vcore on that CPU? [EDIT] Just seen your other post


I think the vcore is in the data on the right of the screen...


----------



## Telstar

I think u need a z270 for that speed.


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Great - some times you need to Load OPtimized Defaults or CLRCMOS to flush all bad background settings. So, with that, set AI tweaker to :Manual" and enter your OC fully manually. Set 3600 as the ram speed and timings 16-X-X exactly as they are for the XMP, and 1.375V VDIMM. With 32GB you may need ot increase System Agent (VCCSA) to 1.275V or so. Should work.


After doing all of that it wouldn't POST still. It kept cycling on/off, I can hear it clicking over and over every 5 second and all the LED's would shut on/off.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> After doing all of that it wouldn't POST still. It kept cycling on/off, I can hear it clicking over and over every 5 second and all the LED's would shut on/off.


You are running x99 according to your sig rig - correct? (for some reason I thought you were on z170) If yes (x99), verify that all dimms are fully/properly inserted in the correct slots. clrcmos or load optimized defaults, F10 and return to bios. is the total amount of installed ram shown correctly in bios?


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> You are running x99 according to your sig rig - correct? (for some reason I thought you were on z170) If yes (x99), verify that all dimms are fully/properly inserted in the correct slots. clrcmos or load optimized defaults, F10 and return to bios. is the total amount of installed ram shown correctly in bios?


Yep its the one in my sig. All the RAM is shown in BIOS when I look at DRAM timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> Yep its the one in my sig. All the RAM is shown in BIOS when I look at DRAM timings.


okay - let's keep it simple:

following a clrcmos or load optimized defaults, assuming the defaults will load windows and complete a stability test (if not known, you need to try a stability test at defaults) in bios set AI tuner to XMP and hit F10. does it successfully load windows?


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> okay - let's keep it simple:
> 
> following a clrcmos or load optimized defaults, assuming the defaults will load windows and complete a stability test (if not known, you need to try a stability test at defaults) in bios set AI tuner to XMP and hit F10. does it successfully load windows?


At defaults I've run a couple baseline test and benchmarks with no problems.

So, after saving defaults and then enabling XMP, it wouldn't POST. It stopped at the CC qcode.


----------



## Silent Scone

Enter the voltages and timings manually if you haven't already tried this.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> At defaults I've run a couple baseline test and benchmarks with no problems.
> 
> So, after saving defaults and then enabling XMP, it wouldn't POST. It stopped at the CC qcode.


as scone said, at that point entering manually is worth a(nother) try. but something else is "afoot". If it does not work, clrcmos (or Load opt defaults and F10 to save the settings - post back to bios) and please insert a USB stick in any port, set it up as you did for this last XMP try (but do not F10). On each page where you changed any setting from the Default setting, hit the F12 key. the hit the escape key and do not save the changes. boot into windows and post those screenshots here.


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> as scone said, at that point entering manually is worth a(nother) try. but something else is "afoot". If it does not work, clrcmos (or Load opt defaults and F10 to save the settings - post back to bios) and please insert a USB stick in any port, set it up as you did for this last XMP try (but do not F10). On each page where you changed any setting from the Default setting, hit the F12 key. the hit the escape key and do not save the changes. boot into windows and post those screenshots here.


Ok I tried the overclock and ram settings manually again after it was back to defaults and successfully loaded windows and I got the same error.

Just so I do this right, I'm to load and save defaults in BIOS. Once back in, enable XMP and don't touch any other settings? Then, screen shot all pages.


----------



## Seus

Double post.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*


yes. I simply want to verify that your settings are correct.


----------



## Duality92

Hey guys! I'm just wondering if 1.5v is still considered the max for DDR4 24/7. I want to see how much I can push this 3200/16 ripjaws V 4*4 kit


----------



## Seus




----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Okay - thanks. Please try the following:
leave XMP enabled in both the main page AND on the DRAM SETTINGS PAGE
cpu cores to auto
Min and MAx cache multipliers to Auto
Dram Voltage A and B to 1.35V (if you did not enter this in earlier tries, you need to)
Dram Phase to "Optimized (not shown in the screenshots)
cpu VR fault to "Disabled"
VR efficiency to "High Performance"


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Duality92*
> 
> Hey guys! I'm just wondering if 1.5v is still considered the max for DDR4 24/7. I want to see how much I can push this 3200/16 ripjaws V 4*4 kit


Yeah that's pretty high up there.For z170 i have no problem but on x99 i think 1.5v might be a little too high









Here are my older ripjaws Hynix MFR kit @ 1.55v in bios but actual was about 1.58v-1.59v


I also ran 3200Mhz Cl15-15-15-35-1 @ 1.4v.


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Okay - thanks. Please try the following:
> leave XMP enabled in both the main page AND on the DRAM SETTINGS PAGE
> cpu cores to auto
> Min and MAx cache multipliers to Auto
> Dram Voltage A and B to 1.35V (if you did not enter this in earlier tries, you need to)
> Dram Phase to "Optimized (not shown in the screenshots)
> cpu VR fault to "Disabled"
> VR efficiency to "High Performance"


Ok, I input these settings, saved them, and got the same result as before.


----------



## Duality92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah that's pretty high up there.For z170 i have no problem but on x99 i think 1.5v might be a little too high
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my older ripjaws Hynix MFR kit @ 1.55v in bios but actual was about 1.58v-1.59v
> 
> 
> I also ran 3200Mhz Cl15-15-15-35-1 @ 1.4v.


forgot to mention it's for Z170, possibly Z270 if that changes anything.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> Ok, I input these settings, saved them, and got the same result as before.


sheet... I'm basically a a loss. work out a solid OC for core and cache without changing anything related to ram, then we can try to bring that kit up to it's rated speed...or you might want to return them as defective and try another kit.


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> sheet... I'm basically a a loss. work out a solid OC for core and cache without changing anything related to ram, then we can try to bring that kit up to it's rated speed...or you might want to return them as defective and try another kit.


Well speaking of overclock, I got it to 4.2ghz on 1.287v. Cache at 35 with 1.25v. I did extensive amounts of stress testing with this overclock and it's been solid.

Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> Well speaking of overclock, I got it to 4.2ghz on 1.287v. Cache at 35 with 1.25v. I did extensive amounts of stress testing with this overclock and it's been solid.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help!


yeah - IDK what's going on with that ram kit. can;t run XMP, can't run at XMP speeds with manual input.... I'd be exchanging it.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Duality92*
> 
> Hey guys! I'm just wondering if 1.5v is still considered the max for DDR4 24/7. I want to see how much I can push this 3200/16 ripjaws V 4*4 kit


I think that depends entirely on what chips the RAM uses. The typical B-Die Samsung chips used right now do list 1.5v as the absolute maximum rating for the chips and also has this note:
Quote:


> NOTE :
> 1. Stresses greater than those listed under "Absolute Maximum Ratings" may cause permanent damage to the device. This is a stress rating only and functional operation of the device at these or any other conditions above those indicated in the operational sections of this specification is not implied. Exposure to absolute maximum rating conditions for extended periods may affect reliability


And the recommended voltages from Samsung are still 1.26v max


----------



## spddmn24

Well I got my new motherboard in now I can't get the ram to post past 3100mhz. Is it an issue of the motherboard being new and needing some bios updates for the ram, or is there something wrong with my ram?
Ram is tridentZ 3400 F4-3400C16D-16GTZ
Motherboard is rog strix gaming Z270E.
CPU 7700k.
Tried setting system agent manually to 1.25 and IO to 1.20 no change. Had to set the ram voltage to 1.4 to get it to post at 3100.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Well I got my new motherboard in now I can't get the ram to post past 3100mhz. Is it an issue of the motherboard being new and needing some bios updates for the ram, or is there something wrong with my ram?
> Ram is tridentZ 3400 F4-3400C16D-16GTZ
> Motherboard is rog strix gaming Z270E.
> CPU 7700k.
> Tried setting system agent manually to 1.25 and IO to 1.20 no change. Had to set the ram voltage to 1.4 to get it to post at 3100.


Shouldn't be an issue. Have you attempted clearing the CMOS and entering the voltage and timings manually without XMP?

If no joy, flash to 0701 UEFI build if on an earlier one.


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Shouldn't be an issue. Have you attempted clearing the CMOS and entering the voltage and timings manually without XMP?
> 
> If no joy, flash to 0701 UEFI build if on an earlier one.


I'm on 0701. I tried setting voltages manually, but not a CMOS clear. I'll give that a shot and see what it does.

Here are all the voltages at 3100.


----------



## spddmn24

Cleared cmos, still won't post past 3100.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Cleared cmos, still won't post past 3100.


Not sure why this is happening for you in all honesty. You're using a single kit, yes?


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Not sure why this is happening for you in all honesty. You're using a single kit, yes?


Yep single kit. Ordered a 3866 kit to try (F4-3866C18D-16GTZKW), if it works I guess I'll RMA the 3400 kit and sell it. Not sure why it would suddenly overclock worse on the asus board though.


----------



## Silent Scone

Well at least that new kit is validated for your board.


----------



## Jpmboy

New entry:

jpmboy --- [email protected] 5000 --- 3600c15-15-15-35-1T 1.375V. SSA 1.3V. HCi 1475%


----------



## Silent Scone

Good price for a fairly high bin.

http://www.newegg.com/global/uk/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232268

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> New entry:
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected] 5000 --- 3600c15-15-15-35-1T 1.375V. SSA 1.3V. HCi 1475%


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> New entry:
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected] 5000 --- 3600c15-15-15-35-1T 1.375V. SSA 1.3V. HCi 1475%


Those OC Formula's are such a beast in memory clocking:thumb:


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Those OC Formula's are such a beast in memory clocking:thumb:


Still waiting for him to get XMP stable


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Good price for a fairly high bin.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/global/uk/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232268


What's an XMP?









hey bud.. I'd steer away from those sticks if you are looking for gskill's top ICs. Look for the flat primaries. honestly, I find that the 3600c15s are "most compliant"... with the 3733c17 and 4266c19 kits I have behaving fairly similarly, just require different VDIMM as far as I can tell.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> Those OC Formula's are such a beast in memory clocking:thumb:


I'm 100% sure the M8 Impact would do as well if not better. Both behind the rare and mysterious Apex.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> What's an XMP?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey bud.. I'd steer away from those sticks if you are looking for gskill's top ICs. Look for the flat primaries. honestly, I find that the 3600c15s are "most compliant"... with the 3733c17 and 4266c19 kits I have behaving fairly similarly, just require different VDIMM as far as I can tell.
> I'm 100% sure the M8 Impact would do as well if not better. Both behind the rare and mysterious Apex.


I've not committed yet, but they're definitely a good option as a cheaper way to reach the magic 4000Mhz. Might be worth it just to see how far they go.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've not committed yet, but they're definitely a good option as a cheaper way to reach the magic 4000Mhz. Might be worth it just to see how far they go.


oh, they do 4000 for sure.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> oh, they do 4000 for sure.


They do 4000hz @ CL16?
Try something like this.
I just set all the primaries and left everything else auto.


Should have the 7350k tomorrow so ill be testing some better timings on this kit.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> They do 4000hz @ CL16?
> Try something like this.
> I just set all the primaries and left everything else auto.
> 
> 
> Should have the 7350k tomorrow so ill be testing some better timings on this kit.


why try something like _that_?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> why try something like _that_?


You can go higher if you want.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> You can go higher if you want.


oh... http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3580_20#post_25765831


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Seus*
> 
> Well speaking of overclock, I got it to 4.2ghz on 1.287v. Cache at 35 with 1.25v. I did extensive amounts of stress testing with this overclock and it's been solid.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help!
> 
> 
> 
> yeah - IDK what's going on with that ram kit. can;t run XMP, can't run at XMP speeds with manual input.... I'd be exchanging it.
Click to expand...

I find if I crash in Windows testing an overclock can make my system unstable even in settings that work. Save settings that work to USB, clear CMOS jumper with power cord unplugged, restore BIOS settings from USB is the fix every time.









I just had my system blue screening running stressapptest, cleared CMOS, now finishing an hour of stressapptest with very same settings.


----------



## KedarWolf




----------



## djgar

You can also save settings to a profile in the BIOS.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> You can also save settings to a profile in the BIOS.


You can, except when you clear CMOS you'll lose all the saved profiles in BIOS. USB is needed.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You can, except when you clear CMOS you'll lose all the saved profiles in BIOS. USB is needed.


Are you sure about that?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You can, except when you clear CMOS you'll lose all the saved profiles in BIOS. USB is needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that?
Click to expand...

Yes, you use the clear CMOS jumper it deletes any profiles you have saved. I don't mean hit F5 to default, I mean move the jumper cap to the other two pins with power cable unplugged for 30 seconds or so. F5 in BIOS load defaults doesn't delete the profiles but clear CMOS jumper does. I did it tonight.

Edit: And clear CMOS jumper CAN fix instabilities that loading BIOS defaults with F5 can't.


----------



## KedarWolf

Ordering a 512GB 960 Pro M.2 drive tonight when pay is in the bank. Sold my old Corsair AX1200i, it helps.


----------



## Silent Scone

Just a heads up, due to Windows being more process heavy and not being able to allocate as much available memory, I've decided to note this in the OP. Still recommending that Mint is used to run Stress App Test as the go-to platform.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just a heads up, due to Windows being more process heavy and not being able to allocate as much available memory, I've decided to note this in the OP. Still recommending that Mint is used to run Stress App Test as the go-to platform.


Tonight in Windows without the -M option it allotted just over 30000MB using my 32GB kit.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just a heads up, due to Windows being more process heavy and not being able to allocate as much available memory, I've decided to note this in the OP. Still recommending that Mint is used to run Stress App Test as the go-to platform.
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight in Windows without the -M option it allotted just over 30000MB using my 32GB kit.
Click to expand...

I just checked, 30865MB.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I just checked, 30865MB.


It's important to unify results, still recommending that it's used under Mint. With auto allocation in Windows 10, it's also very easy to sink into paging. That's not to say people can't use it, but Mint is how the test is meant to be run.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I just checked, 30865MB.
> 
> 
> 
> It's important to unify results, still recommending that it's used under Mint. With auto allocation in Windows 10, it's also very easy to sink into paging. That's not to say people can't use it, but Mint is how the test is meant to be run.
Click to expand...

I have a Puppy Linux USB with stressapptest on it, might run it tonight even though Windows passed.

I made a post how to use Puppy with NVidia cards that won't boot in Mint. I know it even worked for jpmboy when he couldn't boot into Mint with a newer card.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Yes, you use the clear CMOS jumper it deletes any profiles you have saved. I don't mean hit F5 to default, I mean move the jumper cap to the other two pins with power cable unplugged for 30 seconds or so. F5 in BIOS load defaults doesn't delete the profiles but clear CMOS jumper does. I did it tonight.
> 
> Edit: And clear CMOS jumper CAN fix instabilities that loading BIOS defaults with F5 can't.


That is not how my board works. I can clear CMOS with the jumper and all my profiles stay. The only time my profiles get deleted is when I change bios versions.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Yes, you use the clear CMOS jumper it deletes any profiles you have saved. I don't mean hit F5 to default, I mean move the jumper cap to the other two pins with power cable unplugged for 30 seconds or so. F5 in BIOS load defaults doesn't delete the profiles but clear CMOS jumper does. I did it tonight.
> 
> Edit: And clear CMOS jumper CAN fix instabilities that loading BIOS defaults with F5 can't.


I'm aware of what clearing CMOS is - just have hardly used it (it's a pain in my cabinet setup and lost a couple of jumpers somewhere behind my rad







), but never had noticed that aspect. Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's important to unify results, still recommending that it's used under Mint. With auto allocation in Windows 10, it's also very easy to sink into paging. That's not to say people can't use it, but Mint is how the test is meant to be run.


What kind of deficiency do you think we'll run into? I'm getting 30979 MB free. Dang, I may have to restructure my stress SSD again. This is very stressing ...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> What kind of deficiency do you think we'll run into? I'm getting 30979 MB free. Dang, I may have to restructure my stress SSD again. This is very stressing ...


What do you mean by deficiency? It's fine, you can run it but Mint is the stronger option...


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What do you mean by deficiency? It's fine, you can run it but Mint is the stronger option...


I was trying to figure out what I would be missing in terms of gauging my stability and whether it would be worth the trouble to go back to Mint.


----------



## djgar

OK, I restored my Mint-based image and started stressapp in both BASH and MINT, here are the configurations generated:

BASH:
Log: Commandline - stressapptest -s 4800 -W --pause_delay 4850 -l /mnt/n/stress.txt
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: buildd @ allspice on Sun Dec 1 04:04:20 UTC 2013 from open source release
Log: 1 nodes, 16 cpus.
Log: Defaulting to 16 copy threads
Log: Total 32678 MB. Free 30979 MB. Hugepages 0 MB. Targeting 30852 MB (94%)

MINT:
Log: Commandline - stressapptest -s 4800 -W --pause_delay 4850 -l Desktop/stress.txt
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: buildd @ kapok on Wed Jan 21 17:09:35 UTC 2015 from open source release
Log: 1 nodes, 16 cpus.
Log: Defaulting to 16 copy threads
Log: Total 32085 MB. Free 31013 MB. Hugepages 0 MB. Targeting 30288 MB (94%)

In my case they look pretty close - actually for some reason BASH ends up with a slightly higher target range, of course YMWV ...


----------



## Silent Scone

There's no advantage to using Windows other than if you don't have a Mint install

1) Linux requires a marginally higher level of stability over Windows

2) The test can assign more available memory for most users without worrying about running into page filing (what one user manages to get away with using auto allocation isn't necessarily the same for everyone, some may not keep track of what's being used).

3) Keeping results on the same platform means all tests are successfully passed equal

Arguably the difference in what is passable on both platforms is probably too minimal to tell apart, but nonetheless would prefer if people stuck to Linux for this.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I'm aware of what clearing CMOS is - just have hardly used it (it's a pain in my cabinet setup and lost a couple of jumpers somewhere behind my rad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), but never had noticed that aspect. Thanks for the heads-up.


on ROG boards with a clrcmos button using this will not remove any saved profiles.


----------



## Silent Scone

As far as I'm aware, the -A is no different. Clearing the CMOS will not delete profiles. If it did there would be very little use for them.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> As far as I'm aware, the -A is no different. Clearing the CMOS will not delete profiles. If it did there would be very little use for them.


that makes sense... as usual.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You can, except when you clear CMOS you'll lose all the saved profiles in BIOS. USB is needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that?
Click to expand...

My bad, I just tested clearing the CMOS with the jumper. It DOESN'T delete the saved profile. I always thought it did, Live and learn.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> There's no advantage to using Windows other than if you don't have a Mint install
> 
> 1) Linux requires a marginally higher level of stability over Windows
> 
> 2) The test can assign more available memory for most users without worrying about running into page filing (what one user manages to get away with using auto allocation isn't necessarily the same for everyone, some may not keep track of what's being used).
> 
> 3) Keeping results on the same platform means all tests are successfully passed equal
> 
> Arguably the difference in what is passable on both platforms is probably too minimal to tell apart, but nonetheless would prefer if people stuck to Linux for this.


Gotcha! Thanks for the elaboration.


----------



## Seus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - IDK what's going on with that ram kit. can;t run XMP, can't run at XMP speeds with manual input.... I'd be exchanging it.


Gave it one more shot upping the dram voltage to 1.40v and so far so good. Running at the rated frequency (3200mhz) and timings for this kit. Should I still up the SA voltage? It's reading 1.10v in windows. Any other settings I should tweak or just jump into memory stress testing? Thank you.


----------



## ducegt

ducegt--i7-7700K @5/4.5---3733 (1866 mhz)-C14-14-14-31-2T----1.5v vdimm --- 1.35v SA --1.25v IO--Stressapptest----1 Hour



Asrock Z270 Fatality K6. Doing another run now at SA 1.3 and IO 1.2. That failed. Even dropping to 1.34 and 1.24 failed. Leaving it as before. HWinfo reports IO 1.264 and SA 1.368


----------



## Dasa

Suggested someone run GSAT who was getting random bsod and memtest only found one error when left overnight then no errors the next night
But it didnt work

Code:



Code:


[email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -W -s 3600
Log: Commandline - stressapptest -W -s 3600
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: buildd @ kapok on Wed Jan 21 17:09:35 UTC 2015 from open source release
Log: 1 nodes, 4 cpus.
Log: Defaulting to 4 copy threads
Log: Total 7931 MB. Free 4878 MB. Hugepages 0 MB. Targeting 7343 MB (92%)
Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
Process Error: memalign returned 0
Process Error: failed to allocate memory
Process Error: Sat::Initialize() failed

Status: FAIL - test encountered procedural errors

Process Error: Fatal issue encountered. See above logs for details.

Ideas?
Thanks


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> Suggested someone run GSAT who was getting random bsod and memtest only found one error when left overnight then no errors the next night
> But it didnt work
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -W -s 3600
> Log: Commandline - stressapptest -W -s 3600
> Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
> Log: buildd @ kapok on Wed Jan 21 17:09:35 UTC 2015 from open source release
> Log: 1 nodes, 4 cpus.
> Log: Defaulting to 4 copy threads
> Log: Total 7931 MB. Free 4878 MB. Hugepages 0 MB. Targeting 7343 MB (92%)
> Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
> Process Error: memalign returned 0
> Process Error: failed to allocate memory
> Process Error: Sat::Initialize() failed
> 
> Status: FAIL - test encountered procedural errors
> 
> Process Error: Fatal issue encountered. See above logs for details.
> 
> Ideas?
> Thanks


If he received an error on the first run, the memory isn't stable. You can see from the log that the test is trying to allocate more memory than what is available.


----------



## Dasa

thanks i was wondering if it was something like that -m to set the amount of memory worked
both sticks individually tested in linux for 2-4 hours ok but hci failed with both sticks again so im thinking its more a problem with the 4690k\asrock z97 pro4 even though the ram is only 1600c9


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasa*
> 
> thanks i was wondering if it was something like that -m to set the amount of memory worked
> both sticks individually tested in linux for 2-4 hours ok but hci failed with both sticks again so im thinking its more a problem with the 4690k\asrock z97 pro4 even though the ram is only 1600c9


Depends. If you set an argument that resulted in only testing half the memory in Stress App given it failed before, it's probably not stable there either. You want to be testing at least 90%.


----------



## mus1mus

Spoiler: Tuning . . .


----------



## mus1mus

Another Obscure run.









Stressapptest 1HOUR:

5930K
Core - 4.5 @ 1.2V
Cache - 4.5 @ 1.25V
VCCIN - 1.875 LLC 7
VCCSA - +0.001 (0.808V in Windows)

TridentZ 3200C14 32GB
3555 CL 14-15-14-31-1T
VDIMM - 1.45

RVE
Strap 167
BIOS 3301


----------



## Jpmboy

Switch to the timing configurator version 3.0.6, it will read the frequency correctly.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Switch to the timing configurator version 3.0.6, it will read the frequency correctly.


Ohh! Nice tip.

Thanks!


----------



## escalibur

Guys I need your opinions.









Should I go with Corsair 16GB (2 x 8GB) Vengeance LPX, DDR4 3600MHz, CL18 (CMK16GX4M2B3600C18) or with G.Skill 16GB (2 x 8GB) Trident Z, DDR4 3200MHz, 1.35V (F4-3200C14D-16GTZSW)?









The memory will be installed on Maximus IX Hero MB in Define C case using Kraken X52 AIO so higher heatsinks might be an issue. My goal is to overclock my upcoming 7700K to the maximum (including deliding) so timings are not that important.


----------



## Silent Scone

G.Skill.


----------



## HugoStiglitz

Hi guys,

I have 2 sets of Gskill F4-3200C16D-8GTZB and I want to overclock them, I've been trying but I have seen so many conflicting guides around.

It seems like this thread is the place to be so wondering can someone help.

I can set the XMP 3200 16-18-18-38 and it boots no problem, I just need to know do I tighten timings or increase frequency or both.

Help would be appreciated.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> ducegt--i7-7700K @5/4.5---3733 (1866 mhz)-C14-14-14-31-2T----1.5v vdimm --- 1.35v SA --1.25v IO--Stressapptest----1 Hour


This wasn't stable when tested longer. Even dropping to 14-14-14-35 @ 3600 and full IO and SA with 1.56v vdimm it gave 1 error every 1.5 hours. Max dimms temp at 42c. Not sure if it's worth trying higher. Back to stock until next bios update.


----------



## Nick the Slick

Nick the Slick--i76700K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-2T----1.392v---SA 1.28v---HCI 1580%

RAM is G. Skill F4-3600C16D-16GTZSW.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> Nick the Slick--i76700K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-2T----1.392v---SA 1.28v---HCI 1580%
> 
> RAM is G. Skill F4-3600C16D-16GTZSW.


^^ That's a daaum good 3600c16 kit.


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ That's a daaum good 3600c16 kit.


Thanks, I'm happy with it. Really wish I could get 4000 out of it though but just can't even get it to boot no matter what I try.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> Thanks, I'm happy with it. Really wish I could get 4000 out of it though but just can't even get it to boot no matter what I try.


is that a 4 dimm board?

edit: dl a copy of the most recent asrock timing configurator and post a snip of it here...


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> is that a 4 dimm board?
> 
> edit: dl a copy of the most recent asrock timing configurator and post a snip of it here...


Yes it's a 4 dimm. I have the B slots populated as recommended when running 2 sticks.


----------



## steadly2004

I'm so disappointed. I thought my 4.5/4 3200mhz overclock was stable. Passes real bench, ECT. Just repartitioned my drive to add a Linux mint OS and run stressapp. Found out it wasn't stable ?. I'm retrying all my efforts now to get stable again. Currently testing 4.5/3.9 3000mhz. It's a 3000mhz kit, so I hope it's stable at those clocks. I think it might have been the cache making it unstable at 4ghz. After I get this proven stable I'll return to my settings with adaptive voltage and start over. Just manual voltages for now. I also dropped my SA voltage as I see everyone on here running in the 0.95-1.05 range and I was a 1.15-1.2v

Only thing I don't like is that the system will now boot directly to Linux if I don't select windows on the initial boot selection menu.

Do you guys know how I can rearrange the boot options?

At first the windows wasn't even an option, lol. I freaked out. But with some searching I found the command to search and add it back in. I guess when it searched it also found a memtest somewhere, so it's on my boot options.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> I'm so disappointed. I thought my 4.5/4 3200mhz overclock was stable. Passes real bench, ECT.
> 
> ....


When you say "Passes RealBench, ECT" what exactly do you mean?


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> When you say "Passes RealBench, ECT" what exactly do you mean?


I'm sorry for the confusion. It was stable with 1 hour of realbench stress testing, I also played around a bit with Intel extreme tuning app and bench/stress. All stable, but the same OC threw an error within 1 min of stressapp.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> I'm sorry for the confusion. It was stable with 1 hour of realbench stress testing, I also played around a bit with Intel extreme tuning app and bench/stress. All stable, but the same OC threw an error within 1 min of stressapp.


One hour RB is not a good guide - you really want at the very least 2 hours, preferably 3-4. Looks like you have memory instability. Also use AIDA64 cache stress to check your cache OC - 2 hours is good.


----------



## Kimir

Well that's what he said, since Stressapptest failed.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Well that's what he said, since Stressapptest failed.


Indeed!


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> One hour RB is not a good guide - you really want at the very least 2 hours, preferably 3-4. Looks like you have memory instability. Also use AIDA64 cache stress to check your cache OC - 2 hours is good.


Thanks. With a few tweaks. Mainly reducing the cache frequency I'm at 45/60 minutes on gsat now.

1 hour real bench is usually "good enough" for me. At least it's good enough for places like silicon lottery. I might run longer times when I go to bed. This is actually the first time I've ever passes that test and been unstable in another. I actually start with a new setting running the Intel XTU benchmark. I find that is the quickest way to expose initial instability. Then run other tests.

I think gsat is just better for memory instability testing. I think it also exposes uncore instability. Better than Windows based programs at least. I haven't used the cache stress testing in a while, but I think it passed the last time I checked. I don't remember how long I ran it, as it was a long time ago.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> Thanks. With a few tweaks. Mainly reducing the cache frequency I'm at 45/60 minutes on gsat now.
> 
> 1 hour real bench is usually "good enough" for me. At least it's good enough for places like silicon lottery. I might run longer times when I go to bed. This is actually the first time I've ever passes that test and been unstable in another. I actually start with a new setting running the Intel XTU benchmark. I find that is the quickest way to expose initial instability. Then run other tests.
> 
> I think gsat is just better for memory instability testing. I think it also exposes uncore instability. Better than Windows based programs at least. I haven't used the cache stress testing in a while, but I think it passed the last time I checked. I don't remember how long I ran it, as it was a long time ago.


GSAT specifically targets memory stability and will get some / many uncore / cache instabilities. RB is more of an all-around and CPU test, kind of jack of all trades and master of some







.


----------



## Silent Scone

Stress App, shattering dreams everywhere


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Stress App, shattering dreams everywhere


Definitely got mine. LOL.

I can't seem to get any combination of 3200mhz to pass even 5 min of stressapp. I even bumped voltage to 1.41v up from 1.35v on 3000.

I'm currently running my adaptive OC with 3000mhz instead. I thought I remembered the 100 strap and 3000 memory not being stable for most users on haswell-e. It's working so far, I'll find out in 1 hour if it's stress-app stable. So I know the same settings are stable with the 125 strap, but never got it going with the 100 strap. I guess if the memory runs at advertised speeds I can't be unhappy, even though I'd prefer them to OC, at least a little. Maybe I'll try and tighten some primary timings if it works at 3000 and 100 strap/adaptive voltage.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> Definitely got mine. LOL.
> 
> I can't seem to get any combination of 3200mhz to pass even 5 min of stressapp. I even bumped voltage to 1.41v up from 1.35v on 3000.
> 
> I'm currently running my adaptive OC with 3000mhz instead. I thought I remembered the 100 strap and 3000 memory not being stable for most users on haswell-e. It's working so far, I'll find out in 1 hour if it's stress-app stable. So I know the same settings are stable with the 125 strap, but never got it going with the 100 strap. I guess if the memory runs at advertised speeds I can't be unhappy, even though I'd prefer them to OC, at least a little. Maybe I'll try and tighten some primary timings if it works at 3000 and 100 strap/adaptive voltage.


3200 should be doable assuming the memory is good for it. 3000 ratio on 100 strap may work for you, it varies from CPU to CPU. You'll know soon enough if it's not.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> Yes it's a 4 dimm. I have the B slots populated as recommended when running 2 sticks.


thanks, and I see you have already set the 4 tertiary timings to the cas value... this is even more important at higher frequencies. I assume when shooting for higher freqs, you set these the same as cas again?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Stress App, shattering dreams everywhere


A bubble buster. Humbling.


----------



## TomcatV

1) I'm in the process of reading this thread ... but wanted a quicker opinion on a TridentZ kit for my platform (see sig) with this model # F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW (16gb 2x8 3200 C14) ... $155 [email protected] ... is the low latency/timing(C14) premium worth it? About $30 more than Std C16 Kits? Main purpose for this rig is gaming/some benching with a minor in encoding.

2) I want to get back into OC'ing ram but don't want to pay the premium for kits rated above 3200 ... I think I'm looking for a GSkill kit with B-Die Samsung memory right? Can you tell from the model number what is in a kit or do you need to have the modules in hand?

3) For the Z170 platform do I want a kit with 2 sticks or 4 sticks? Not sure if I want another 32GB kit like I have now as this rig is mostly for gaming?

4) I hear the newer modules are the ones to get with 5 letters in the model number like "GTZKW" (along w/QVL compatibility) and stay away from the 1st release plain "GTZ" models, any validity to this?

5) If you were to go purchase a kit now what TridentZ model would you recommend?

5a) Or other kits, but Tridents seem to be the favorites?


----------



## Silent Scone

http://gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=16GB+%288GBx2%29&series=2482&prop_6=Dual+Channel+Kit&prop_3=3200MHz&prop_4=14-14-14-34-2N&prop_1=1.35v

Any of these will do you fine.


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 3200 should be doable assuming the memory is good for it. 3000 ratio on 100 strap may work for you, it varies from CPU to CPU. You'll know soon enough if it's not.


I thought I had it..... Damn. Ran an hour of stressapp without error, but after that I bumped the cache up. Then realized after the changes only 4 GB was being used. Reverted back to prior settings that passed stressapp and it's only working on 1 stick, 4gb. Oh well, looks like I couldn't get it to work at 100 strap. Back to the 125 strap for now. I retried many different combinations again at 3200 with no success. Perhaps my memory just isn't up to it. It's pretty old, first batch of ddr4 stuff.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> I thought I had it..... Damn. Ran an hour of stressapp without error, but after that I bumped the cache up. Then realized after the changes only 4 GB was being used. Reverted back to prior settings that passed stressapp and it's only working on 1 stick, 4gb. Oh well, looks like I couldn't get it to work at 100 strap. Back to the 125 strap for now. I retried many different combinations again at 3200 with no success. Perhaps my memory just isn't up to it. It's pretty old, first batch of ddr4 stuff.


You can maybe drown that out with more voltage depending how much you've tried already. Up to 1.45v is fine. Also look at loosening some of the secondary timings such as tWCL. Assuming you've already tried to relax primaries.


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> thanks, and I see you have already set the 4 tertiary timings to the cas value... this is even more important at higher frequencies. I assume when shooting for higher freqs, you set these the same as cas again?


If I'm honest, no I did not set these timings







. I set the main timings and leave everything else on auto, so that must be part of the boards auto rules. I will try for 4000 again and try setting them manually this time when I get home from work. Thanks for that insight. Will try a little higher DRAM voltage this time as well.


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You can maybe drown that out with more voltage depending how much you've tried already. Up to 1.45v is fine.


Ah, I only tried up to 1.41v


----------



## TomcatV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> http://gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&prop_2=16GB+%288GBx2%29&series=2482&prop_6=Dual+Channel+Kit&prop_3=3200MHz&prop_4=14-14-14-34-2N&prop_1=1.35v
> 
> Any of these will do you fine.


Thanks +R


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> A bubble buster. Humbling.


Character building


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> I thought I had it..... Damn. Ran an hour of stressapp without error, but after that I bumped the cache up. Then realized after the changes only 4 GB was being used. Reverted back to prior settings that passed stressapp and it's only working on 1 stick, 4gb. Oh well, looks like I couldn't get it to work at 100 strap. Back to the 125 strap for now. I retried many different combinations again at 3200 with no success. Perhaps my memory just isn't up to it. It's pretty old, first batch of ddr4 stuff.


when the rig drops any ram channel(s), get back into bios and do a cold restart, or better yet, a clrcmos then reenter the settings (or reload a saved profile that you can work from).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Character building


a cold splash of reality.


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> when the rig drops any ram channel(s), get back into bios and do a cold restart, or better yet, a clrcmos then reenter the settings (or reload a saved profile that you can work from).
> a cold splash of reality.


So it's not just instability? I figured it was just bad settings. You think I can reload the settings and try again without changing voltages and stuff?

I swear (maybe) the first time I ran the 4.5/3000 on 100 strap had the full memory the first time.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> So it's not just instability? I figured it was just bad settings. You think I can reload the settings and try again without changing voltages and stuff?
> 
> I swear (maybe) the first time I ran the 4.5/3000 on 100 strap had the full memory the first time.


if the system is dropping channels, the ram is not able to pass POST training. and the config that boots with dropped channels may need a flush and refill to train all sticks again...
after a clrcmos or safeboot, increase VCCSA a step at a time and consider running a higher training VDIMM, +25 to 50mV above the Eventual Dram Voltage either or both until all instalkled ram shows up in bios.


----------



## spddmn24

Whats the max safe voltage for system agent and io for kaby lake? Trying to get my 3866 kit stable. Auto with XMP enabled is 1.38 system agent and 1.20 io.


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Whats the max safe voltage for system agent and io for kaby lake? Trying to get my 3866 kit stable. Auto with XMP enabled is 1.38 system agent and 1.20 io.


Here is what TweakTown recommends and what I have been going by.


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> Here is what TweakTown recommends and what I have been going by.


Thank you. My bios settings are way off what's being reported in windows. Ram and io is .05v lower in windows, system agent is about .05 higher. Is that normal?


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Thank you. My bios settings are way off what's being reported in windows. Ram and io is .05v lower in windows, system agent is about .05 higher. Is that normal?


Beats me. When I set 1.225v in BIOS for SA and IO it shows up as ~1.256v in HWInfo64


----------



## Nick the Slick

Well, 4000 was a no go. Even with my max comfortable voltages of 1.45v DRAM and 1.3v IO and SA. Only tried timings as high as 17-18-18-38. Felt like any higher would have defeated any benefits of the clock bump. Quite happy with the 3866 16-16-16-36 though so I think I've reached my limits for my RAM and CPU. Now to wait for Vega to launch and see if I'll be grabbing that or whatever nVidia launches next.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> Well, 4000 was a no go. Even with my max comfortable voltages of 1.45v DRAM and 1.3v IO and SA. Only tried timings as high as 17-18-18-38. Felt like any higher would have defeated any benefits of the clock bump. Quite happy with the 3866 16-16-16-36 though so I think I've reached my limits for my RAM and CPU. Now to wait for Vega to launch and see if I'll be grabbing that or whatever nVidia launches next.


It would be more that you have hit the limit of your board, as trying to run 4000mhz or higher on most 4 DIMM Z170 boards, usually ends up failing.


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> It would be more that you have hit the limit of your board, as trying to run 4000mhz or higher on most 4 DIMM Z170 boards, usually ends up failing.


Semantics really







If you want to get technical with it I haven't hit the limit of my CPU either, just the limit of my cooling. So then i'll just leave it at "I've hit limits" lol


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> Semantics really
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to get technical with it I haven't hit the limit of my CPU either, just the limit of my cooling. So then i'll just leave it at "I've hit limits" lol


Lol ok we'll leave it that you've just hit limits









However if you do want to run your memory at 4000mhz + you do need a 2 DIMM Z170 board.

Also some new Z270 4 DIMM boards are rated to run memory upto 4133mhz.


----------



## mus1mus

RETUNED:

5930K
Core - 4.5 @ 1.2V
Cache - 4.5 @ 1.25V
VCCIN - 1.875 LLC 7
VCCSA - +0.001 (0.808V in Windows)

TridentZ 3200C14 32GB
3555 CL 14-14-14-30-1T
VDIMM - 1.45

RVE
Strap 167
BIOS 3401

GSAT 2 HOURS


----------



## steadly2004

steadly2004-- i7 5930kK @4.6/4.1---2666Mhz-C13-13-13-32-1T----1.35v---SA 1.05v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


I have 2 screenshots because I haven't (don't know) how to get all the other programs running in linux. I haven't changed any timings on the memory besides the basic ones. Should I try and tweak them? Should I manually set the timings that are different between sticks? Such at RTL and IO-L?

I gave up on trying to get 3000 or 3200 stable. however after upping my cache voltage, now I can get a stable v-core at lower volts. Maybe it was previously just cache instability, but I think I couldn't even do it with stock cache. Memory is at 1.35v and CPU is at 1.325v cache is at 1.275v but shows up to 1.311 in hw monitor. I know this is higher than the recommended 1.2v cache for daily use, but temps are actually down lower than they were with 1.3v and 4.5ghz cpu for some reason. Real Bench tops out at 70* on hottest core and 72 or 74 on package. But normally stays under 70 even when stress testing. I tried for 4.7 at 1.375 and it passed intel XTU bench (and gave me a score of 1905), but froze in relbench. I didn't try for 1.385v.


----------



## steadly2004

delete


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steadly2004*
> 
> steadly2004-- i7 5930kK @4.6/4.1---2666Mhz-C13-13-13-32-1T----1.35v---SA 1.05v---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> 
> 
> I have 2 screenshots because I haven't (don't know) how to get all the other programs running in linux. I haven't changed any timings on the memory besides the basic ones. Should I try and tweak them? Should I manually set the timings that are different between sticks? Such at RTL and IO-L?
> 
> I gave up on trying to get 3000 or 3200 stable. however after upping my cache voltage, now I can get a stable v-core at lower volts. Maybe it was previously just cache instability, but I think I couldn't even do it with stock cache. Memory is at 1.35v and CPU is at 1.325v cache is at 1.275v but shows up to 1.311 in hw monitor. I know this is higher than the recommended 1.2v cache for daily use, but temps are actually down lower than they were with 1.3v and 4.5ghz cpu for some reason. Real Bench tops out at 70* on hottest core and 72 or 74 on package. But normally stays under 70 even when stress testing. I tried for 4.7 at 1.375 and it passed intel XTU bench (and gave me a score of 1905), but froze in relbench. I didn't try for 1.385v.


Those settings are fine, I'd simply recommend not hammering the CPU with anything too intensive (AVX workloads) with that much cache voltage in tow. Leave RTL/IOL in auto. You can always work on lowering your seconds and thirds if you want to try and improve on things. You can start by lowering tWCL.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> RETUNED:
> 
> 5930K
> Core - 4.5 @ 1.2V
> Cache - 4.5 @ 1.25V
> VCCIN - 1.875 LLC 7
> VCCSA - +0.001 (0.808V in Windows)
> 
> TridentZ 3200C14 32GB
> 3555 CL 14-14-14-30-1T
> VDIMM - 1.45
> 
> RVE
> Strap 167
> BIOS 3401
> 
> GSAT 2 HOURS
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


that's some sick ram you got going there. 3555c14 on x99 is impressive.


----------



## steadly2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Those settings are fine, I'd simply recommend not hammering the CPU with anything too intensive (AVX workloads) with that much cache voltage in tow. Leave RTL/IOL in auto. You can always work on lowering your seconds and thirds if you want to try and improve on things. You can start by lowering tWCL.


Thanks for the tips!


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's some sick ram you got going there. 3555c14 on x99 is impressive.


Naah. Pretty doable. It's just my only TZ 3200C14. So I don't believe it's something special.

You just need to try 167 Strap and be open to the glitches it brings. It's a very finicky strap. You need to clear the CMOS everytime you fail to post. Load your profile and all is good.

3666 boots and passes benches. Still not able to stabilize it but initial tuning involves relaxing the primaries to 15-15-15-35-1T. Not really ideal for performance. Latency climbs bad for just another 111MHz.

One stick btw, is capable of 3666 14-15-14-32-1T. The rest won't even load into Windows.

And yeah, FSB to RAM ratio must be on 100:133 for 3555 and 100:100 for 3666.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Naah. Pretty doable. It's just my only TZ 3200C14. So I don't believe it's something special.
> 
> You just need to try 167 Strap and be open to the glitches it brings. It's a very finicky strap. You need to clear the CMOS everytime you fail to post. Load your profile and all is good.
> 
> 3666 boots and passes benches. Still not able to stabilize it but initial tuning involves relaxing the primaries to 15-15-15-35-1T. Not really ideal for performance. Latency climbs bad for just another 111MHz.
> 
> One stick btw, is capable of 3666 14-15-14-32-1T. The rest won't even load into Windows.
> 
> And yeah, FSB to RAM ratio must be on 100:133 for 3555 and 100:100 for 3666.


yeah - ran 166 early on (seems like launch of the R5E was years ago) , but didn't notice any ram frequency advantage. the 3200c14 kits are as tunable as any out there.


----------



## r0l4n

What would you guys go for?

2x Corsair Vengeance LPX Red DDR4 PC32000/4000MHz CL19 2x4GB (CMK8GX4M2B4000C19R)
1x G.Skill Ripjaws V Black DDR4 PC28800/3600MHz CL16 2x8GB (F4-3600C16D-16GVK)

Would the Ripjaws overclock to match the Corsair on speed/timings?

They will be paired with a 7700K and a Strix z270e.

Thanks.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0l4n*
> 
> What would you guys go for?
> 
> 2x Corsair Vengeance LPX Red DDR4 PC32000/4000MHz CL19 2x4GB (CMK8GX4M2B4000C19R)
> 1x G.Skill Ripjaws V Black DDR4 PC28800/3600MHz CL16 2x8GB (F4-3600C16D-16GVK)
> 
> Would the Ripjaws overclock to match the Corsair on speed/timings?
> 
> They will be paired with a 7700K and a Strix z270e.
> 
> Thanks.


Out of those choices, the GSKILL. The Strix Z270E is not rated for 4000Mhz.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - ran 166 early on (seems like launch of the R5E was years ago) , but didn't notice any ram frequency advantage. the 3200c14 kits are as tunable as any out there.


Testing 3666 14-15-14-1T now. And it seems all sticks can run individually. But throws a ton of wrrors when in full quads. IMC Limitation? If so, will SA and IO Voltages help? How high can VCCIO go for X99?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Testing 3666 14-15-14-1T now. And it seems all sticks can run individually. But throws a ton of wrrors when in full quads. IMC Limitation? If so, will SA and IO Voltages help? How high can VCCIO go for X99?


You'll be pushing the limits of everything up there, IMC included when trying to run all sticks together at those same timings. If you want to entertain that speed further, relax some of the timings whilst using all 4 DIMM. Wouldn't recommend using more VCCSA//IO than you are already (if intending on using these settings 24/7).


----------



## mus1mus

SA is at +0.001 = 0.818V
IO at 1.1










One slot (B1) is holding me back. Or was it? Testing B1.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> SA is at +0.001 = 0.818V
> IO at 1.1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One slot (B1) is holding me back. Or was it? Testing B1.


Sorry, I was looking at the wrong result. Plenty of leg room then, although that's probably not the only obstical at that speed


----------



## tistou77

I saw on the 1st page that with a VDIMM at +1.40v, the results are classified in "Obscure / Uncommon"
Why ? This is not recommended in h24 ?

Thanks


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I saw on the 1st page that with a VDIMM at +1.40v, the results are classified in "Obscure / Uncommon"
> Why ? This is not recommended in h24 ?
> 
> Thanks


That's not the reason any of the results in that table are there


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's not the reason any of the results in that table are there


Ok, that was the common point for each result


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Ok, that was the common point for each result


Not sure where you're looking, probably the wrong place. There's a notes column. Yellow simply means you're on the higher side, bit of common sense is needed really


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Sorry, I was looking at the wrong result. Plenty of leg room then, although that's probably not the only obstical at that speed


Yep. Slot B1 won't give in. I will be back at it some time.









BTW, details are here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3700_50#post_25792855

Notes have been mixed up?


----------



## tistou77

I'm lookinh here











Indeed, there are VDIMMs at less than 1.40v, I did not pay attention


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Yep. Slot B1 won't give in. I will be back at it some time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, details are here:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3700_50#post_25792855
> 
> Notes have been mixed up?


Think you're asking too much of everything already, testament to the board more than anything. They shouldn't be, you were probably looking as I was amending it.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Think you're asking too much of everything already, testament to the board more than anything. They shouldn't be, you were probably looking as I was amending it.


Could be.

I'm also getting some issues with Channels A and B anyway. Q-Code B6 after a CMOS Clear. I can't post unless I have slots CD occupied. Load optimal settings and they get recognized. Thus saving my profiles a lot.


----------



## Silent Scone

Well B6 is a memory training code. I'd reside those speeds for benchmarks


----------



## mus1mus

B6 and B7 after a CMOS reset when using just slots A or B. Weird. Anyway, as long as slots C or D is occupied, I have no issues.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's not the reason any of the results in that table are there


What is the reasoning behind that?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> What is the reasoning behind that?


I believe that's explained at the top of the chart ...


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I believe that's explained at the top of the chart ...


I don't see any explanation.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I don't see any explanation.


Read the second line, above the first black title header ...


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic - 7350k @ 5Ghz /4.8Ghz 1.4v - 4000Mhz 17-17-17-37-1T - 1.425vdimm - 1.2vccio - 1.25vccsa - HCI 400%


----------



## spddmn24

spddmn24 7700k @ 5.1 ghz 4.6 cahce, 3866 18-19-19-39 2t 1.360 vcore 1.360 ram 1.264 s/a 1.224 io.



Is it worth bumping io and sa to ~1.28-1.29 for 3866 17-19-19-39 2t? It's just a gaming rig, not sure how safe those higher voltages would be for 24/7 usage.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> spddmn24 7700k @ 5.1 ghz 4.6 cahce, 3866 18-19-19-39 2t 1.360 vcore 1.360 ram 1.264 s/a 1.224 io.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it worth bumping io and sa to ~1.28-1.29 for 3866 17-19-19-39 2t? It's just a gaming rig, not sure how safe those higher voltages would be for 24/7 usage.


I'd see if you can aim for 1T firstly


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'd see if you can aim for 1T firstly


Tried, wouldn't post.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic - 7350k @ 5Ghz /4.8Ghz 1.4v - 4000Mhz 17-17-17-37-1T - 1.425vdimm - 1.2vccio - 1.25vccsa - HCI 400%


erm.. nice ram, but that CPU looks even better! You might get better alignment (ChA D1) with higher training voltage.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> erm.. nice ram, but that CPU looks even better! You might get better alignment (ChA D1) with higher training voltage.


I went in and set IOL's / RTL's manually as well as twrrd.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I went in and set IOL's / RTL's manually as well as twrrd.


If so, it needs more voltage cause the MC is overriding your settings.. unless you set it to run like that.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> If so, it needs more voltage cause the MC is overriding your settings.. unless you set it to run like that.


No need for more voltage.... well at least not yet currently @130% HCi


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> No need for more voltage.... well at least not yet currently @130% HCi
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


ah.. I didn't understand that after the first result you changed the out of wack RTl and IOL.








It should only be more stable.


----------



## Bojamijams

Hi mem OC gurus,

I've been following this thread with hopes of learning more about how to OC my HyperX Savage DDR4-2400 CAS12. I originally bought it thinking low CAS was the ultimate thing (I mainly game). Now I know that's not the case and I want speed.

But this Hynix memory will not let me move past 2400. I've tried making VCCSA and VCCIO as high as 1.25V each and VCCDQ at 1.4V but it won't move past this and be 100% stable. Does anyone have suggestions on how to figure out what this could do? I've mainly been changing the first 4 settings and leaving the rest on Auto, disabling fast boot (so it trains).

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ah.. I didn't understand that after the first result you changed the out of wack RTl and IOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should only be more stable.


Yeah


----------



## 100pipito

CPU Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor $329.99 @ SuperBiiz
CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler $29.99 @ NCIX US
Motherboard Asus Z170-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard $147.98 @ Newegg
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory $99.99 @ Newegg
Storage Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive $169.49 @ OutletPC
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $49.55 @ OutletPC
Video Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card $399.99 @ Newegg
Case Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case $94.99 @ SuperBiiz
Power Supply Corsair RMx 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $99.99 @ Newegg
Case Fan Akasa AK-FN073 109.5 CFM 140mm Fan -
External Storage Seagate Expansion 1TB External Hard Drive -
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $1421.96

I have bought the g skills ram of 16 gb (2x8 sticks) and putted them into dual channel slot and then I tried to enable xmp profile and had no luck with it as it always kind of puts 2133 MHz in dram configuration.

Any suggestions to try something?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *100pipito*
> 
> CPU Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor $329.99 @ SuperBiiz
> CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler $29.99 @ NCIX US
> Motherboard Asus Z170-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard $147.98 @ Newegg
> Memory G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory $99.99 @ Newegg
> Storage Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive $169.49 @ OutletPC
> Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $49.55 @ OutletPC
> Video Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card $399.99 @ Newegg
> Case Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case $94.99 @ SuperBiiz
> Power Supply Corsair RMx 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $99.99 @ Newegg
> Case Fan Akasa AK-FN073 109.5 CFM 140mm Fan -
> External Storage Seagate Expansion 1TB External Hard Drive -
> Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
> Total $1421.96
> 
> I have bought the g skills ram of 16 gb (2x8 sticks) and putted them into dual channel slot and then I tried to enable xmp profile and had no luck with it as it always kind of puts 2133 MHz in dram configuration.
> 
> Any suggestions to try something?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Take this information and put it in your sig using RigBuilder so we always have it available - check Jpmboy's signature.


----------



## Bojamijams

Does anyone have any tips for SK Hynix ICs? I have a set of HyperX Savage that runs at 2400 12-13-13-35 (as per XMP) @ 1.35V, but I'd like to get it up to DDR4-3000 but am not having any luck.


----------



## JackCY

With most RAM what you buy is what you get, they are binned and sold as fast as they will run most of the time. Gotta find some rare kit and batch that was sold at lower price as lower speed but will run faster in fact.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> With most RAM what you buy is what you get, they are binned and sold as fast as they will run most of the time. Gotta find some rare kit and batch that was sold at lower price as lower speed but will run faster in fact.


If I wanted to upgrade to faster ram, what should I look for in terms of overclockability? I don't really want to pay for DDR4-3600+ but would love to buy a 3000 kit that can overclock to that. I hear Samsung ICs are better, is that true? Is there a low profile kit (for heatsink clearance) that you can recommend? How do I find the IC used on it? (sorry for the noob questions)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> If I wanted to upgrade to faster ram, what should I look for in terms of overclockability? I don't really want to pay for DDR4-3600+ but would love to buy a 3000 kit that can overclock to that. I hear Samsung ICs are better, is that true? Is there a low profile kit (for heatsink clearance) that you can recommend? How do I find the IC used on it? (sorry for the noob questions)


how high in voltage have you gone with your current 2400 kit in trying to reach 3000? (you are asking a lot from that kit).
Have you been able to run 2666 13-14-14 at 1.4V


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> how high in voltage have you gone with your current 2400 kit in trying to reach 3000? (you are asking a lot from that kit).
> Have you been able to run 2666 13-14-14 at 1.4V


I've tried 1.4 Vdimm and 1.2 VCCIO and VCCSA.

What do you recommend for the 4th value with the 13-14-14... 39? Auto?

And holy crap.. You got your ram at C13 3400?? that's ridiculous! I want that but I don't think TridentZ are low profile enough


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> I've tried 1.4 Vdimm and 1.2 VCCIO and VCCSA.
> 
> What do you recommend for the 4th value with the 13-14-14... 39? Auto?
> 
> And holy crap.. You got your ram at C13 3400?? that's ridiculous! I want that but I don't think TridentZ are low profile enough


the 4th value is tRAS, and tRAS = CAS(CL)+tRCD+tRTP. So for your setup the correct timing is most likely 39.

3400c13 is on my x99 with 64GB of ram. The z170 boards run 3600 to 4133 with decent ram kits. Check the table in the OP for some settings.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the 4th value is tRAS, and tRAS = CAS(CL)+tRCD+tRTP. So for your setup the correct timing is most likely 39.
> 
> 3400c13 is on my x99 with 64GB of ram. The z170 boards run 3600 to 4133 with decent ram kits.


Given that formula it should be 41 then right? (your suggestion being 13-14-14 = 13+14+14)

Also why do you think I'm asking for too much from my kit? When I tried 3000 I didn't mean I did it with cas12









I tried 15-15-15-35 @ 3000 but now, knowing the full formula, I see I should've been trying 15-15-15-45


----------



## JackCY

Some RAM will OC to higher clock speed but you have to adjust the latency which hurts performance, so you're trading one thing for another. I don't know of any magic DDR4 kits that would be sold "under binned" such as buy 2133 and OC to 3200 while using not much higher latency at all. Even with DDR3 it was rare, sort of buy many and see or watch online forums, reddit etc. but it's often getting a specific kit from a specific batch that was binned lower so it sells because the fastest binned RAMs sell poorly due to their ridiculous pricing.
2133-2400MHz was normal for DDR3, with DDR4 the average kits to buy are around 3000-3200MHz but the pricing I do not know right now, maybe they are still milking DDR4.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> Given that formula it should be 41 then right? (your suggestion being 13-14-14 = 13+14+14)
> 
> Also why do you think I'm asking for too much from my kit? When I tried 3000 I didn't mean I did it with cas12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried 15-15-15-35 @ 3000 but now, knowing the full formula, I see I should've been trying 15-15-15-45


you are confusing tRP with tRTP. Dl a copy of the latest Asrock Timing Configurator for your MB and post a snip back here.
And getting a 2400 kit o orun 3000 is not impossible, it just depends on the capabilities of the ram ICs.

this was with a GSkill economy kit (I think they were 2133) for my wifes Tax prep PC... been running at that speed for ~ a year now.. and she never shuts the damn thing off.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the 4th value is tRAS, and tRAS = CAS(CL)+tRCD+tRTP. So for your setup the correct timing is most likely 39.
> 
> 3400c13 is on my x99 with 64GB of ram. The z170 boards run 3600 to 4133 with decent ram kits. Check the table in the OP for some settings.


Where did you get that formula for tRAS ?

Because even when I check my XMP Timings for my 3600mhz C16 kit, the tRAS set by G.Skill, does not add up to the sum of those figures.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you are confusing tRP with tRTP. Dl a copy of the latest Asrock Timing Configurator for your MB and post a snip back here.
> And getting a 2400 kit o orun 3000 is not impossible, it just depends on the capabilities of the ram ICs.


Ahh yes you're right. I see now.

Here is what I'm currently running from that ASrock timings configurator


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Where did you get that formula for tRAS ?
> 
> Because even when I check my XMP Timings for my 3600mhz C16 kit, the tRAS set by G.Skill, does not add up to the sum of those figures.


Mine doesn't add up either. Math is 33 but my XMP sets it to 35. I'm thinking the formula is the MINIMUM and since it probably has very little effect on the actual speed, XMP sets it just a bit outside to facilitate compatibility


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> Mine doesn't add up either. Math is 33 but my XMP sets it to 35. I'm thinking the formula is the MINIMUM and since it probably has very little effect on the actual speed, XMP sets it just a bit outside to facilitate compatibility


Personally I don't think that formula is applicable whatsoever, because as you can see below from my XMP timings, using that formula adds up to 44 and my tRAS is set to 36 by default from G.Skill and that is a considerable difference

From all the memory overclocking I have done with DDR4, lowering tRAS always gives greater performance every time and still maintains stability.

My kits XMP default timings.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Personally I don't think that formula is applicable whatsoever, because as you can see below from my XMP timings, using that formula adds up to 44 and my tRAS is set to 36 by default from G.Skill and that is a considerable difference
> 
> From all the memory overclocking I have done with DDR4, lowering tRAS always gives greater performance every time and still maintains stability.
> 
> My kits XMP default timings.


Hmm you are correct. Well back to the drawing board I guess :/


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Where did you get that formula for tRAS ?
> 
> Because even when I check my XMP Timings for my 3600mhz C16 kit, the tRAS set by G.Skill, does not add up to the sum of those figures.


Depends on ther tRTP value assigned by the IMC. Posted 'bout this many times, the ras windows needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete all three operations, and when this is set below the required window (it's all explained in the JDEC spec) the chipset subs in a value to correct the timings error... and you cannot interrogate this value. For vendors, there is no loss (or risk) to setting this value below the required window since the chipset will correct it. It is possible for our manual value to be an offset to a floor hence you see values below the sum. It's just how ram works.
Raja has posted about this many times over the past year(s).

Here are two:

_No need for tRAS at 30. It's below the minimum time so the chipset will have to resort to some arbitrary timing. tRCD is the time it take to latch the row and transfer the data into the sense amps. CAS is the time it takes to find the column address have have the data ready for burst. Adding those two together brings you to 30 clocks. Each burst is 4 clock cycles in length. That brings you to 34. However, tRTP is set to 10. Which means that 40 clocks must elapse before tRAS elapses and the precharge command can be sent to transfer the data in the sense amps back into the dram cells. The minimum proper tRAS value for your setup is therefore 40 clocks.
All of the timings follow the same laws as DDR3 for minimum value, apart from tRRD_L which has a minimum spacing of 6 clocks_

_tRAS is the minimum time the row should be active. The row needs to be active for the entire duration it takes to perform tRCD, CAS and tRTP. Any lower and the chipset has to apply the minimum value arbitrarily - there may be an additional penalty for the collision as well.
So while it may look nice in screenshots to set tRAS to some low value (below the min threshold) in reality it is not helping and may be worse than setting the correct minimum value instead on relying on the IMC to correct the timing issue._

Believe me, many moons ago I examined JDEC timing schedules (charts) and it is indeed so. Looks good to have a low number, but may not actually be what the memory start-up tests end up with.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Where did you get that formula for tRAS ?


This diagram shows the RAS line held low until tRCD, CAS, and at least 2 clocks of data have been output. If the RAS line goes high before that, you're asking the memory controller to unlatch the row before you've got the requested data from it.

http://www.electronics.dit.ie/staff/tscarff/memory/DRAM_READ_CYCLE.jpg

What hangs in the balance at the board level - not the chipset level - is how the number of clocks you've entered for tRAS is interpreted. Most of the time, it should be a 1:1 relationship. Any timing set below the minimum "electrical" value is simply substituted so that the operation can be performed. The penalty of this is unknown, but there's usually a drop in performance at a certain point. Indirect realtionships to other timings can play a part in perceived performance gains (in this case it would likely be from tRC). Make no mistake that the law is real, it's just the interface layer that is sometimes fuzzy.

-Raja


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ yeah, what he said.









not sure if this is still valid:



Thanks for pointing out the interface layer issue.


----------



## [email protected]

Yeah, it's valid if you know what to look for. It shows a two column burst, not a single column read followed by a page close...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Yeah, it's valid if you know what to look for. It shows a two column burst, not a single column read followed by a page close...


lol - no idea what it was.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> This diagram shows the RAS line held low until tRCD, CAS, and at least 2 clocks of data have been output. If the RAS line goes high before that, you're asking the memory controller to unlatch the row before you've got the requested data from it.
> 
> http://www.electronics.dit.ie/staff/tscarff/memory/DRAM_READ_CYCLE.jpg
> 
> What hangs in the balance at the board level - not the chipset level - is how the number of clocks you've entered for tRAS is interpreted. Most of the time, it should be a 1:1 relationship. Any timing set below the minimum "electrical" value is simply substituted so that the operation can be performed. The penalty of this is unknown, but there's usually a drop in performance at a certain point. Indirect realtionships to other timings can play a part in perceived performance gains (in this case it would likely be from tRC). Make no mistake that the law is real, it's just the interface layer that is sometimes fuzzy.
> 
> -Raja


Thank you for that very indepth and technical reply









So would it be fair to assume then that any setting where the tRAS is less than CAS(CL)+tRCD+tRTP, that it is in fact hindering performance since the board has to produce its own delay to fix it?


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> My kits XMP default timings.


BTW, unless there is something specifically different about your board, I think you're running in single channel mode. I believe your two sticks should be in DIMM1 Channel A and DIMM1 Channel B to be dual channel.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> Thank you for that very indepth and technical reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So would it be fair to assume then that any setting where the tRAS is less than CAS(CL)+tRCD+tRTP, that it is in fact hindering performance since the board has to produce its own delay to fix it?


If you're 2 clocks below that window you may be okay in some applications but not in others.


----------



## tknight

Jpmboy and Raja - Thanks for your detailed explanations and after reading them, it has just raised a couple of questions, based on what i have actually experienced from adjusting tRAS, which does not result in the performance loss that is meant to arise, from setting it below the 1:1 formula relationship you describe.

1) I have had factory DDR4 primary timings of 17-18-18-38 for example and when only lowering tRAS from 38 to 36 to then 28, and not changing any other timings at all, i have seen an increase in performance when testing the tRAS at every change, in benches like XTU, Super PI and even AIDA memory bench. Why is this happening if there is meant to be a performance loss or collision as you have described?

2)If setting tRAS below the formula sum, results in performance loss/collision, then why do ram manufacturers do that and if collisions are occurring would they not show up in memory stability stress tests and cause them to fail at some point?


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> BTW, unless there is something specifically different about your board, I think you're running in single channel mode. I believe your two sticks should be in DIMM1 Channel A and DIMM1 Channel B to be dual channel.


My board is a 2 DIMM slot board, one for each channel. You can see it is in dual channel mode, from it saying dual at the top right hand of the timing configurator.


----------



## djgar

I get better benchmarks with 13-15-13-16 (GSAT stable) than 13-15-13-32, and instability at 13-15-13-15, so I'm guessing whatever the BIOS is doing behind the scenes is improving some aspects of my timings, not just a simple adjustment of the tRAS.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Jpmboy and Raja - Thanks for your detailed explanations and after reading them, it has just raised a couple of questions, based on what i have actually experienced from adjusting tRAS, which does not result in the performance loss that is meant to arise, from setting it below the 1:1 formula relationship you describe.
> 
> 1) I have had factory DDR4 primary timings of 17-18-18-38 for example and when only lowering tRAS from 38 to 36 to then 28, and not changing any other timings at all, i have seen an increase in performance when testing the tRAS at every change, in benches like XTU, Super PI and even AIDA memory bench. Why is this happening if there is meant to be a performance loss or collision as you have described?
> 
> 2)If setting tRAS below the formula sum, results in performance loss/collision, then why do ram manufacturers do that and if collisions are occurring would they not show up in memory stability stress tests and cause them to fail at some point?


1) Likely due to tRC shifting which we don't have access to - no other major (unavailable) timing is linked to the tRAS window until the next ACT command. Performance loss is dependant on what ones runs, and it may not always be a loss, simply no gain from tRAS itself, but biting into the "excess" tRC window.
2) No, because the chipset can sub in a value to ensure the page is held open; how much it uses in case of a collision is up in the air. tRAS is simply RAS min active time, which accounts for a single read transaction to a row after which the page would be closed.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> 1) Likely due to tRC shifting which we don't have access to - no other major (unavailable) timing is linked to the tRAS window until the next ACT command. Performance loss is dependant on what ones runs, and it may not always be a loss, simply no gain from tRAS itself, but biting into the "excess" tRC window.
> 2) No, because the chipset can sub in a value to ensure the page is held open; how much it uses in case of a collision is up in the air. tRAS is simply RAS min active time, which accounts for a single read transaction to a row after which the page would be closed.


So the chipset is performing some sort of ECC procedure in a way?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> So the chipset is performing some sort of ECC procedure in a way?


Not really. It will detect the line is still busy then instigate a hold on the RAS line, just like it does when there is more than one transaction to the row.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Not really. It will detect the line is still busy then instigate a hold on the RAS line, just like it does when there is more than one transaction to the row.


Ok then so based on all that you have described, when running primary timings of 12-12-12-28, with a tRTP of 6, then I should get either the same or possibly better performance by setting my tRAS to 30 instead of 28, because then the chipset would never have to sub an unknown arbitrary value, since the 1:1 relationship would be maintained?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Ok then so based on all that you have described, when running primary timings of 12-12-12-28, with a tRTP of 6, then I should get either the same or possibly better performance by setting my tRAS to 30 instead of 28, because then the chipset would never have to sub an unknown arbitrary value, since the 1:1 relationship would be maintained?


You'd have to test it in the benchmark. Depends if it's impacting tRC.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Ok then so based on all that you have described, when running primary timings of 12-12-12-28, with a tRTP of 6, then I should get either the same or possibly better performance by setting my tRAS to 30 instead of 28, because then the chipset would never have to sub an unknown arbitrary value, since the 1:1 relationship would be maintained?


this is where the tRTP value adds up for 12-12-12-28, because if you are using mocf presets, tRTP is 4-6 and the "rule" is held. As Raja suggested, when talking best-tested stability as this thread is for, +/- 2 still works. But just for grins, I just set my ram to 3600 15-15-15-28-1t with tRTP at 12... It's 250% into HCi Memtest and error free. this also gives a higher AID64 memory bandwidth test result. (marginally)
regardless of tRTP, at some point the board will correct the timing error... I'd bet each manufacturere approaches this differently.

Anyway, Any benefit in a bench really depends on the benchmark at these limits... and none oif those benchmarks verify stability to anything but that benchmark.. XTU bench is very sensitive to tRP and tCWL... and of course core and cache frequency.

edit: and Thanks Raja for picking up on this and taking us to school. "The Bus"







\

*EDIT2*: what we don't want to loose sight of is the fact the the OP was asking about getting a 2400 kit to run at 3000, or even post at 3000. What score we get at the limits in a benchmark is probably not relevant to that question (nor to this thread really - figured I'd add that before Scone, scolds us







)


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> edit: and Thanks Raja for picking up on this and taking us to school. "The Bus"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \
> 
> *EDIT2*: what we don't want to loose sight of is the fact the the OP was asking about getting a 2400 kit to run at 3000, or even post at 3000. What score we get at the limits in a benchmark is probably not relevant to that question (nor to this thread really - figured I'd add that before Scone, scolds us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Hehe, don't mind that at all, this was a great learning lesson

As for my kit going past 2400, I will try some more things and report, if anyone cares.

One thing I'm not sure about however and hopefully one of you gurus can help me

If I've ever loaded an XMP profile (and I have), then when i disable that XMP profile and start settings some things to manual, but leave others on Auto, is the Auto based on the new primary typings that I've typed in manually or on the values of the XMP that I've now stopped using?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> Hehe, don't mind that at all, this was a great learning lesson
> 
> As for my kit going past 2400, I will try some more things and report, if anyone cares.
> 
> One thing I'm not sure about however and hopefully one of you gurus can help me
> 
> If I've ever loaded an XMP profile (and I have), then when i disable that XMP profile and start settings some things to manual, but leave others on Auto, is the Auto based on the new primary typings that I've typed in manually or on the values of the XMP that I've now stopped using?


some XMP programming are things we do not have access to in bios. If it works that way, cool. If not, it's best to do a restart after setting everything back to auto assuming ram training is not disabled (fast path thru the IMC Enabled







)


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> some XMP programming are things we do not have access to in bios. If it works that way, cool. If not, it's best to do a restart after setting everything back to auto assuming ram training is not disabled (fast path thru the IMC Enabled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


So should training/fast boot be enabled or not? I would think training would be a good thing always but it seems it should be disabled with high clocks/fast boot enabled from what I've read around


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> So should training/fast boot be enabled or not? I would think training would be a good thing always but it seems it should be disabled with high clocks/fast boot enabled from what I've read around


depending on that bios, fast boot and fast path thru MRC are not the same thing. You want to keep dram training enabled or fast path disabled.
Fast boot is different depending on the brand.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> depending on that bios, fast boot and fast path thru MRC are not the same thing. You want to keep dram training enabled or fast path disabled.
> Fast boot is different depending on the brand.


Gotcha. Thanks for all the help so far


----------



## Jpmboy

You're welcome


----------



## Jpmboy

Okay, as followup to our timing discussion here's what I found. It may not be applicable to all measures of performance, but it certainly is not predictable. And in order for lowering tRAS to be beneficial, many other timings need to be aligned... simply lowering tRAS without making other adjustments is not improving these two measures:

First: 3600 15-15-15-28-1T quick stability


AID64 Memory test, tRAS 28 vs 35:


SuperPi 32M tRAS 35


Super Pi 32M tRAS 28


----------



## the_real_7

I just purchased a set of G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) F4-3200C14-D16GTX , and I believe they are B-Sides cause they easily overclock to 3600Mhz Cl16 1.35V. Does anyone have a set of G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) for G.SKILL F4-3600C16D-16GTZ
that they can send me a screenshot of they're secondary timings please, so I can match up my overclock with the skill binning settings









Aida64


Super Pi


MemTweakIt


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Okay, as followup to our timing discussion here's what I found. It may not be applicable to all measures of performance, but it certainly is not predictable. And in order for lowering tRAS to be beneficial, many other timings need to be aligned... simply lowering tRAS without making other adjustments is not improving these two measures


Thanks for taking the time to run those tests. I was seeing the same increase in performance by lowering tRAS, as you have in your tests.

I have noticed that lowering tRAS has more of a noticeable effect, when you have lowered your tRFC, to a value that benefits tRAS even further.

So for example, having tRFC at lets say 450 and then lowering tRAS from 35 to 28, will show an increase in performance.

However setting tRFC to 280 for example and then lowering tRAS by the same amount, will result in even a larger increase than before.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the_real_7*
> 
> I just purchased a set of G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) F4-3200C14-D16GTX , and I believe they are B-Sides cause they easily overclock to 3600Mhz Cl16 1.35V. Does anyone have a set of G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) for G.SKILL F4-3600C16D-16GTZ
> that they can send me a screenshot of they're secondary timings please, so I can match up my overclock with the skill binning settings


I don't know if you are asking for the default timings for that kit or are wanting tight secondary timings for Super PI, so I have provided the default ones below.

Here is the default XMP timings for the Trident Z 3600mhz C16 kit you requested :


----------



## CL3P20

twcl 18 .. barf


----------



## djgar

Here's my situation on the timings. I'm using as my 24/7 a tRAS of 16, vs. the recommended standard 31. My timings are tweaked down as much as I could and be GSAT 80 min. safe, and the only change was the tRAS. Here are my 16 vs. 31 Aida benches, the worst of several runs for each. All 16 runs were better than all 31s, though the margin between worst 16 vs. best 31 were not as radical:


 

BTW, the cache is 3700, not 3600. For some reason Aida often mislabels it.


----------



## spddmn24

[email protected]/4.6-Maximus IX hero--3866Mhz-C17-18-18-39-2T----1.408v---SA 1.280v IO 1.256---HCI 400%



This board is a bit better than my strix z270e was with memory. Got to windows login but it hung at 1t with dram voltage at 1.45 with stock timings. I'll give it a try again if there's a bios update.


----------



## the_real_7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> I don't know if you are asking for the default timings for that kit or are wanting tight secondary timings for Super PI, so I have provided the default ones below.
> 
> Here is the default XMP timings for the Trident Z 3600mhz C16 kit you requested :


Thanks tknight those timings are exactly what I needed to get back into My happy medium lol , All my scores shot back up past where My 3400 Tridents Z where doing









Before


After


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Here's my situation on the timings. I'm using as my 24/7 a tRAS of 16, vs. the recommended standard 31. My timings are tweaked down as much as I could and be GSAT 80 min. safe, and the only change was the tRAS. Here are my 16 vs. 31 Aida benches, the worst of several runs for each. All 16 runs were better than all 31s, though the margin between worst 16 vs. best 31 were not as radical:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the cache is 3700, not 3600. For some reason Aida often mislabels it.


tho is really affected by background services, comparing Spi32M at the different timings looks at a separate aspect of the ram speed than AID64. Not a better one, just a different measure.
Figured you needed another test to play with.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> tho is really affected by background services, comparing Spi32M at the different timings looks at a separate aspect of the ram speed than AID64. Not a better one, just a different measure.
> Figured you needed another test to play with.


Another perspective is always good! Where do I get this test? Googling only got me a bunch of Aida Bench & CPU-Z samples ...


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Another perspective is always good! Where do I get this test? Googling only got me a bunch of Aida Bench & CPU-Z samples ...


He's talking about Super Pi and running it's 32M calculation


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> He's talking about Super Pi and running it's 32M calculation


Thanks!


----------



## coolhandluke41

http://abload.de/image.php?img=2001spivhujf.jpg


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Another perspective is always good! Where do I get this test? Googling only got me a bunch of Aida Bench & CPU-Z samples ...


use this one:

super_pi_mod-1.5.zip 60k .zip file


----------



## kongasdf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://abload.de/image.php?img=2001spivhujf.jpg


if you add voltage how tight can it be? 4200 16-18-18 320?


----------



## kongasdf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the_real_7*
> 
> Thanks tknight those timings are exactly what I needed to get back into My happy medium lol , All my scores shot back up past where My 3400 Tridents Z where doing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before
> 
> 
> After


Share mine timings for HCI Memtest 200% 1.45v


Your can try it. The Third Timings can be exactly alike.


----------



## ducegt

200 isn't much. I've passed 200 and then failed after 18℅ immediately after.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> 200 isn't much. I've passed 200 and then failed after 18℅ immediately after.


yeah, errors before 200% really mean the settings are very unstable.


----------



## Silent Scone

HCI stability for table entry on 16GB or less needs to be at least 400%. And that's cutting it fine, ideally 800-1000% is preferable.


----------



## KedarWolf

Get tech call, "My cup holder on my computer won't open any more.'" me, "Your cup holder?" Them, 'Yeah, you know, that cup holding tray that pops out when I push the button near the top of my PC." Me, "Yes, you may need to replace your 'cup holder tray'."


----------



## [email protected]

One of those types. The best.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Get tech call, "My cup holder on my computer won't open any more.'" me, "Your cup holder?" Them, 'Yeah, you know, that cup holding tray that pops out when I push the button near the top of my PC." Me, "Yes, you may need to replace your 'cup holder tray'."


"Is big cups in small holder"

Sorry for my bad English. Is truly the bad ones, eh


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> One of those types. The best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Get tech call, "My cup holder on my computer won't open any more.'" me, "Your cup holder?" Them, 'Yeah, you know, that cup holding tray that pops out when I push the button near the top of my PC." Me, "Yes, you may need to replace your 'cup holder tray'."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Is big cups in small holder"
> 
> Sorry for my bad English. Is truly the bad ones, eh
Click to expand...


----------



## kongasdf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> No need for more voltage.... well at least not yet currently @130% HCi


What about tCL-tRAS-tRCD 15-16-32, tRDWR_sg/dg/dr/dd 12, tWRRD_dr/dd 4
You will increase the voltage up to 1.52v


This pic from my friend 4000 15-15-15 1.50v HCI 200%


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> HCI stability for table entry on 16GB or less needs to be at least 400%. And that's cutting it fine, ideally 800-1000% is preferable.


Hello

HCI should be properly configured as well.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> HCI should be properly configured as well.


Sounds like a job for Kedarwolf's tech support.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> use this one:
> 
> super_pi_mod-1.5.zip 60k .zip file


Thanks! Will be using that one!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Get tech call, "My cup holder on my computer won't open any more.'" me, "Your cup holder?" Them, 'Yeah, you know, that cup holding tray that pops out when I push the button near the top of my PC." Me, "Yes, you may need to replace your 'cup holder tray'."


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Get tech call, "My cup holder on my computer won't open any more.'" me, "Your cup holder?" Them, 'Yeah, you know, that cup holding tray that pops out when I push the button near the top of my PC." Me, "Yes, you may need to replace your 'cup holder tray'."


oh my. you guys have to have a lot of patience.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> use this one:
> 
> super_pi_mod-1.5.zip 60k .zip file


That icon leaves much to be desired







. I made a somewhat nicer one ...

SuperPiIcon.zip 2k .zip file


----------



## djgar

OK, here are my results from a series of SuperPi runs on 13-15-13-16 and 13-15-13-31. Only tRAS was changed. The gig was 5 runs each with the following:

1. Restart Windows
2. Wait for Intel RST to initialize the delayed service
3. Open MS Office Picture Manager where the images are being assembled
4. Start and run SuperPi
5. Copy screen to Pic Mgr and crop / export
6. Quit SuperPi
7. Repeat steps 4->6 four more times



Looks like a small overall nod to the 16, but maybe I'm biased









Now if it would only save me as much time as I've spent playing with it ...









But therein lies the fun!









BTW - forgot to mention I disabled networking and AV / firewall.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> OK, here are my results from a series of SuperPi runs on 13-15-13-16 and 13-15-13-31. Only tRAS was changed. The gig was 5 runs each with the following:
> 
> 1. Restart Windows
> 2. Wait for Intel RST to initialize the delayed service
> 3. Open MS Office Picture Manager where the images are being assembled
> 4. Start and run SuperPi
> 5. Copy screen to Pic Mgr and crop / export
> 6. Quit SuperPi
> 7. Repeat steps 4->6 four more times
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> Looks like a small overall nod to the 16, but maybe I'm biased
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if it would only save me as much time as I've spent playing with it ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But therein lies the fun!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW - forgot to mention I disabled networking and AV / firewall.


I had a feeling you'd enjoy that. One thing tho, the final 32M time is not shown in the window (24 iterations and the final checksum)?
Anyway, it certainly seems that whether or not specific settings gain benefit really depends on what the ram is being asked to do.


----------



## TK421

Can anyone comment on this ram result?

I'm currently at 12-12-12-24 1T 2400 and trying to reach higher speed, been fooling around with timing but can't really clock it above 2400.





I tried windows memtest it pass 600%


----------



## the_real_7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kongasdf*
> 
> Share mine timings for HCI Memtest 200% 1.45v
> 
> 
> Your can try it. The Third Timings can be exactly alike.


thanks for the timmings I will try later this week


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I had a feeling you'd enjoy that. One thing tho, the final 32M time is not shown in the window (24 iterations and the final checksum)?
> Anyway, it certainly seems that whether or not specific settings gain benefit really depends on what the ram is being asked to do.


Aahh! 24 is the magic number - I saw a lot of examples with 4 on Google. I'll add that to the schedule









But yeah, many dependencies come into play and it's basically low impact.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Aahh! 24 is the magic number - I saw a lot of examples with 4 on Google. I'll add that to the schedule
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, many dependencies come into play and it's basically low impact.


huh? I'm confused. But so that you are not, this is what a completed run looks like:


----------



## CL3P20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I had a feeling you'd enjoy that. One thing tho, the final 32M time is not shown in the window (24 iterations and the final checksum)?
> Anyway, it certainly seems that whether or not specific settings gain benefit really depends on what the ram is being asked to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Aahh! 24 is the magic number - I saw a lot of examples with 4 on Google. I'll add that to the schedule
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, many dependencies come into play and it's basically low impact.
Click to expand...

32m does fall victim to OS discrepancies.. but is very consistent within a given OS. It does load 100% of RAM in quick succession, almost like a cascade. If your memory is not fully it can surely pass 32m, but for tuning purposes.. it will quickly fail if you are having fatal amount of errors.

*set to realtime priority

*set to 2 cores in affinity

^^ this will help you get more consistent time for comparing successful runs/settings..otherwise variance can be frustrating.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> huh? I'm confused. But so that you are not, this is what a completed run looks like:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


No, I get you. It's just that a bunch of the examples I saw when I googled had only the start and a few loops in the image, not the the full score of 24 loops with the checksum at the end or even just the last few.


----------



## djgar

OK, here are 3 full loops each @ 16 and 31 tRAS, same MO with clean start for each group. In my setup it looks to favor the 16 somewhat. So it looks like whatever the BIOS is doing to compensate is streamlining the timings somewhat. Nice algorithms!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> OK, here are 3 full loops each @ 16 and 31 tRAS, same MO with clean start for each group. In my setup it looks to favor the 16 somewhat. So it looks like whatever the BIOS is doing to compensate is streamlining the timings somewhat. Nice algorithms!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Those differences are tiny. Try one or two clocks under the min tRAS window to see what happens. Although at this point, it's not really relevant to the thread as PI isn't the goal here


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Those differences are tiny. Try one or two clocks under the min tRAS window to see what happens. Although at this point, it's not really relevant to the thread as PI isn't the goal here


Right on both counts! It does seem a bit more in full multi-thread.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Right on both counts! It does seem a bit more in full multi-thread.


it's only around 0.5 sec.. which is really small considering we're talking about a user box, and not a bench box. That's the point of the trailing discussion, setting this value very low may or may not yield any benefit, let alone stability. It all depends on what the ram is being asked to do.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it's only around 0.5 sec.. which is really small considering we're talking about a user box, and not a bench box. That's the point of the trailing discussion, setting this value very low may or may not yield any benefit, let alone stability. It all depends on what the ram is being asked to do.


Indeed! 13-15-13-15 becomes unstable. It's actually pretty amazing the underlying algorithms are doing such a nice job saving my butt.


----------



## CL3P20

*take the averages from loop1 ..this is really all you need if your comparing for latency sake. Opening loop time value moves a lot from active services and OS RAM usage.. so you can ignore it.

It is faster. If its stable.. its fine. Throw a huge workload at it now for 2-4hrs and see if your bulletproof if you care to.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> *take the averages from loop1 ..this is really all you need if your comparing for latency sake. Opening loop time value moves a lot from active services and OS RAM usage.. so you can ignore it.
> 
> It is faster. If its stable.. its fine. Throw a huge workload at it now for 2-4hrs and see if your bulletproof if you care to.


19.590 vs 19.608? within 1 SD for either or both data sets. Inconclusive.


----------



## Nick the Slick

Hey Silent Scone, I don't mean to nitpick but you got my CPU/Cache frequency wrong in the chart. It's actually 4.8/4.8 (don't think it really matters as it's the RAM that's important here).

I also forgot to include the Motherboard and IO voltage in my submission though. The motherboard is ASUS Z170-PRO and my IO voltage is same as SA, 1.28V. Here's my submission post for reference. Just check the HWiNFO64 values in the second screenshot to validate my claims (IO voltage is listed as IMC). Again, don't mean to nitpick but I'm sure you would like to have accurate information


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> Hey Silent Scone, I don't mean to nitpick but you got my CPU/Cache frequency wrong in the chart. It's actually 4.8/4.8 (don't think it really matters as it's the RAM that's important here).
> 
> I also forgot to include the Motherboard and IO voltage in my submission though. The motherboard is ASUS Z170-PRO and my IO voltage is same as SA, 1.28V. Here's my submission post for reference. Just check the HWiNFO64 values in the second screenshot to validate my claims (IO voltage is listed as IMC). Again, don't mean to nitpick but I'm sure you would like to have accurate information


No problem, amended. Thanks for the other info.


----------



## CL3P20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> *take the averages from loop1 ..this is really all you need if your comparing for latency sake. Opening loop time value moves a lot from active services and OS RAM usage.. so you can ignore it.
> 
> It is faster. If its stable.. its fine. Throw a huge workload at it now for 2-4hrs and see if your bulletproof if you care to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 19.590 vs 19.608? within 1 SD for either or both data sets. Inconclusive.
Click to expand...

 No, its actually not.

*if you run using only 1-2 core with realtime priority the result can be reproduced and the level of change in loop time is consistent with the decrease in latency. You dont have to use a dedicated bench OS to see this much.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> No, its actually not.
> 
> *if you run using only 1-2 core with realtime priority the result can be reproduced and the level of change in loop time is consistent with the decrease in latency. You dont have to use a dedicated bench OS to see this much.


Can I suggest this discussion is taken elsewhere? It's not relevant to the thread, thanks.


----------



## mus1mus

Is it just me or the latest HCI Memtest app have turned out to be a slooow stability tester nowadays? ~24 hours to test a 32GB kit on 12 threads to about 1200%


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Is it just me or the latest HCI Memtest app have turned out to be a slooow stability tester nowadays? ~24 hours to test a 32GB kit on 12 threads to about 1200%


I have the Deluxe version on a bootable CD. 16GB takes around 5 hours (reasonable to me), 32GB takes it around 24 hrs (hello GSAT)


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I have the Deluxe version on a bootable CD. 16GB takes around 5 hours (reasonable to me), 32GB takes it around 24 hrs (hello GSAT)


Yeah. I just want to verify things with HCI after passing a couple of 1-hour runs with GSAT.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Does anyone else's asrock z170 boards show the chipset as x99 in uefi and f-stream system layout pictures?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Is it just me or the latest HCI Memtest app have turned out to be a slooow stability tester nowadays? ~24 hours to test a 32GB kit on 12 threads to about 1200%


Only real way around that is to cover less memory, which is less than ideal. Or simply resort to a lower number of laps when testing that much memory.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Is it just me or the latest HCI Memtest app have turned out to be a slooow stability tester nowadays? ~24 hours to test a 32GB kit on 12 threads to about 1200%


that's normal...it takes geologic time with 64GB.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Is it just me or the latest HCI Memtest app have turned out to be a slooow stability tester nowadays? ~24 hours to test a 32GB kit on 12 threads to about 1200%
> 
> 
> 
> that's normal...it takes geologic time with 64GB.
Click to expand...

With my 128GB kit I don't recall exactly how long it takes but if I remember right it's between 12-16 hours for 400%. I think i let it run 7 hours overnight than another 10 hours when I was at work to get 400%.


----------



## mus1mus

I just remembered not having to wait more than 8 hours to get to ~2000% on my 2666 runs with 32GB. If I can find the same app cersion I will test it with the latest one.


----------



## GRABibus

Hi,

for an upgrade from 16GB (4x4GB) to 32GB, would you prefer 4x8GB or 8x4GB ? (My rig in signature).

Better performances with 4x8GB or 8x4GB ?

Also, my installed RAM is 4x4GB G.SKILL DDR4-3000 at 3200MHz.
If i buy the same kit and then get 8x4GB G.SKILL DDR4-3000, is it a good idea to make 32GB=8x4GB like this ?

Thanks in advance for inputs.


----------



## Mikeg1

with memtest how many windows should I have running for 16gb ? How long should I run for % ? Thanks


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> for an upgrade from 16GB (4x4GB) to 32GB, would you prefer 4x8GB or 8x4GB ? (My rig in signature).
> 
> Better performances with 4x8GB or 8x4GB ?
> 
> Also, my installed RAM is 4x4GB G.SKILL DDR4-3000 at 3200MHz.
> If i buy the same kit and then get 8x4GB G.SKILL DDR4-3000, is it a good idea to make 32GB=8x4GB like this ?
> 
> Thanks in advance for inputs.


By far this is the best 32GB kit you can get.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232348&cm_re=trident_z_3200_4x8GB-_-20-232-348-_-Product

You run it on 100 strap though, but 100 strap OCs better for most people anyways.

I have the #1 DDR4 non-L2N benchmark on HWBot with it.

http://hwbot.org/submission/3365884_

Check the http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3820_20#post_25827032 thread about it, is the consensus.









And no, mixing even the same RAM kits is not a good idea. I learned that a few years back when I mixed two 4x8GB 2800 G.Skill kits.


----------



## madmeatballs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> And no, mixing even the same RAM kits is not a good idea. I learned that a few years back when I mixed two 4x8GB 2800 G.Skill kits.


I'm curious. What went wrong? I mixed 2 kits of Ripjaws Z 2400MHz on my 4790k build, everything ran perfectly. I bought the 2nd kit a year after the first one too.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> I'm curious. What went wrong? I mixed 2 kits of Ripjaws Z 2400MHz on my 4790k build, everything ran perfectly. I bought the 2nd kit a year after the first one too.


https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview

Eat your veg, eh.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> By far this is the best 32GB kit you can get.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232348&cm_re=trident_z_3200_4x8GB-_-20-232-348-_-Product
> 
> You run it on 100 strap though, but 100 strap OCs better for most people anyways.
> 
> I have the #1 DDR4 non-L2N benchmark on HWBot with it.
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365884_
> 
> Check the http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3820_20#post_25827032 thread about it, is the consensus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no, mixing even the same RAM kits is not a good idea. I learned that a few years back when I mixed two 4x8GB 2800 G.Skill kits.


Thanks for inputs









Just to come back to a part of my questions : is 4x8G better or8x4G (Considering same modules, same timings, same frequency speed..Etc...) ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Thanks for inputs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to come back to a part of my questions : is 4x8G better or8x4G (Considering same modules, same timings, same frequency speed..Etc...) ?


not sure how you can have the same modules and same timings at two different densities. However, IME filling all 8 slots improves performance over filling 4 slots.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> By far this is the best 32GB kit you can get.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232348&cm_re=trident_z_3200_4x8GB-_-20-232-348-_-Product
> 
> You run it on 100 strap though, but 100 strap OCs better for most people anyways.
> 
> I have the #1 DDR4 non-L2N benchmark on HWBot with it.
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365884_
> 
> Check the http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3820_20#post_25827032 thread about it, is the consensus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no, mixing even the same RAM kits is not a good idea. I learned that a few years back when I mixed two 4x8GB 2800 G.Skill kits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for inputs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to come back to a part of my questions : is 4x8G better or8x4G (Considering same modules, same timings, same frequency speed..Etc...) ?
Click to expand...

Technically 8x4GB should do better than 4x8GB as 8 sticks of RAM saturate the bus better but 4GB DIMMs are made with older Dies on the RAM modules and 4x8GB B-Dies will do much better the 4GB DIMMs. If it is older double sided 8GB DIMMs, not the new single sided B-Die, than the 4GB sticks will do better. If they make 4GB B-Die DIMMs then yes, they would do better than 4x8GB B-Die sticks, but i don't think they do make B-Die 4GB sticks.

That's why 8x8GB B-Dies will do a bit better than 4x8GB B-Dies. 8x16GB DIMMs won't do as well as they are double sided and double sided RAM struggles with timings and even meeting rated speeds often.

You can check if it's singled sided on a kit and I think the Die in AIDA64. 4GB will definitely be singled sided.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Mikeg1




----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mikeg1*


Got this with my 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200.


----------



## Mikeg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Got this with my 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200.


Best I can do


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mikeg1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Got this with my 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best I can do
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm Haswell-E, X99 is why. And my run was a benching run to get #1 on HWbot, nowhere near stable, I get around 83k read on that kit on my everyday OC that is stable.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Yeah, I'm Haswell-E, X99 *is why*. And my run was a benching run to get #1 on HWbot, nowhere near stable, I get around 83k read on that kit on my everyday OC that is stable.


Is why you won't beat his latency


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> By far this is the best 32GB kit you can get.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232348&cm_re=trident_z_3200_4x8GB-_-20-232-348-_-Product
> 
> You run it on 100 strap though, but 100 strap OCs better for most people anyways.
> 
> I have the #1 DDR4 non-L2N benchmark on HWBot with it.
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365884_
> 
> Check the http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3820_20#post_25827032 thread about it, is the consensus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no, mixing even the same RAM kits is not a good idea. I learned that a few years back when I mixed two 4x8GB 2800 G.Skill kits.


I have ordered my kit at Amazon.
Hope to receive it beginning of next week.


----------



## Silent Scone

Was hoping to see more Kaby results here


----------



## TomcatV

Just recieved my TridentZ F4-3600C16D-16GTZ (Newegg sale $139) but before that I was experimenting with my Corsair Platinum's CMD32GX4M4A2666C15 and was able to get them stable at 3000 15-15-39 2T w/1.408v ...



But I was never able to get them stable with 1T ... being old school I have a real hangup with always running 1T. Which leads to my frustration with my new Tridents. 1st boot code 55 (Asus manual says slots A2/B2) ... *Wrong* but they booted fine in A1/B1 ... No CPU overclock(stock) then set XMP 3600 manual primaries 16-16-36 DRAM 1.35v (bios 1.344v) everything else on AUTO. SPI/Aida64/MaxMem all fine but unimpressive. Ran HCI Memtest and they failed around the 150% range. Reset DRAM next bin up @1.360v / IO Auto 1.216v / SA Auto 1.280v ... passed HCImem 450% ... Yay!



What next? You guessed it 1T, raised DRam another bin to 1.376v and it eventually booted, but only one stick ... tried DRAM up to 1.44v no change.



Here is where my questions start, apparently the "reset" button on the mobo (Z170 Hero) doesn't take you back to the bios with "F5 Optimized Defaults"! My ASRock board had a neet little button on the back that actually "reset" everything. While this mobo just cycles? I thought maybe it's trying to train the memory, so I let it cycle (restart) a few times on it's own (sometimes by hitting "reset") sometimes it would pause at code 41 but most always hang at code 55. Alright I need to start over and get back to the bios, and the only way I achieved this was with a hard shutdown wait 30s Restart and the overclocking failed screen appears hit F1. If this is the normal sequence, how many times would you hit the reset button in the hopes the memory will "train" if in fact that is what it's trying to do? I feel naked without a bios chip on hand, but I heard it is really hard to break this newer tech. Do you guys have bios chips on standby?

Dang here I go again ... so lets get to the questions/info ...

1) Iv'e been leaving XMP enabled for now while only setting primaries(command rate)/voltage is that OK?
Do I have to disable XMP when I move on to secondaries etc?
2) MRC Fastboot, I'm leaving it on AUTO, tried it disabled didn't make any difference. But what about "Fast Boot" on the My Favorites page? It's enabled, will it effect memory training???
3) Which HWInfo name for monitoring DRAM temps? OR I see some guys reading "Dimm" temps?
4) What else should I try to get 1T stable? I really want this without dropping to 3200









Next I went for the 15-15-15-36 2T @1.360v ... all good HCImem 500% ... But i need to work on all other timings, does someone have a screenshot of the stock XMP timings for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ kit? I know JP has this kit











Is there a data base of screenshots (timings) I can look at for improvement on this setup?

Any and all comments welcome ... and apologies for the wall-o-text but I find it useful for others that are at the same (newbie) state of progression I'm at right now









PS @Scone I could properly post the above for charting, but didn't think they would be of use because of stock CPU settings for now?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Just recieved my TridentZ F4-3600C16D-16GTZ (Newegg sale $139) but before that I was experimenting with my Corsair Platinum's CMD32GX4M4A2666C15 and was able to get them stable at 3000 15-15-39 2T w/1.408v ...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I was never able to get them stable with 1T ... being old school I have a real hangup with always running 1T. Which leads to my frustration with my new Tridents. 1st boot code 55 (Asus manual says slots A2/B2) ... *Wrong* but they booted fine in A1/B1 ... No CPU overclock(stock) then set XMP 3600 manual primaries 16-16-36 DRAM 1.35v (bios 1.344v) everything else on AUTO. SPI/Aida64/MaxMem all fine but unimpressive. Ran HCI Memtest and they failed around the 150% range. Reset DRAM next bin up @1.360v / IO Auto 1.216v / SA Auto 1.280v ... passed HCImem 450% ... Yay!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What next? You guessed it 1T, raised DRam another bin to 1.376v and it eventually booted, but only one stick ... tried DRAM up to 1.44v no change.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is where my questions start, apparently the "reset" button on the mobo (Z170 Hero) doesn't take you back to the bios with "F5 Optimized Defaults"! My ASRock board had a neet little button on the back that actually "reset" everything. While this mobo just cycles? I thought maybe it's trying to train the memory, so I let it cycle (restart) a few times on it's own (sometimes by hitting "reset") sometimes it would pause at code 41 but most always hang at code 55. Alright I need to start over and get back to the bios, and the only way I achieved this was with a hard shutdown wait 30s Restart and the overclocking failed screen appears hit F1. If this is the normal sequence, how many times would you hit the reset button in the hopes the memory will "train" if in fact that is what it's trying to do? I feel naked without a bios chip on hand, but I heard it is really hard to break this newer tech. Do you guys have bios chips on standby?
> 
> Dang here I go again ... so lets get to the questions/info ...
> 
> 1) Iv'e been leaving XMP enabled for now while only setting primaries(command rate)/voltage is that OK?
> Do I have to disable XMP when I move on to secondaries etc?
> 2) MRC Fastboot, I'm leaving it on AUTO, tried it disabled didn't make any difference. But what about "Fast Boot" on the My Favorites page? It's enabled, will it effect memory training???
> 3) Which HWInfo name for monitoring DRAM temps? OR I see some guys reading "Dimm" temps?
> 4) What else should I try to get 1T stable? I really want this without dropping to 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I went for the 15-15-15-36 2T @1.360v ... all good HCImem 500% ... But i need to work on all other timings, does someone have a screenshot of the stock timings for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ kit?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a data base of screenshots (timings) I can look at for improvement on this setup?
> 
> Any and all comments welcome ... and apologies for the wall-o-text but I find it useful for others that are at the same (newbie) state of progression I'm at right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS @Scone I could properly post the above for charting, but didn't think they would be of use because of stock CPU settings for now?


Here is a screen shot of the xmp profile for the 3600Mhz cl16 kit.


Then some OC's


----------



## TomcatV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Just recieved my TridentZ F4-3600C16D-16GTZ (Newegg sale $139) but before that I was experimenting with my Corsair Platinum's CMD32GX4M4A2666C15 and was able to get them stable at 3000 15-15-39 2T w/1.408v ...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I was never able to get them stable with 1T ... being old school I have a real hangup with always running 1T. Which leads to my frustration with my new Tridents. 1st boot code 55 (Asus manual says slots A2/B2) ... *Wrong* but they booted fine in A1/B1 ... No CPU overclock(stock) then set XMP 3600 manual primaries 16-16-36 DRAM 1.35v (bios 1.344v) everything else on AUTO. SPI/Aida64/MaxMem all fine but unimpressive. Ran HCI Memtest and they failed around the 150% range. Reset DRAM next bin up @1.360v / IO Auto 1.216v / SA Auto 1.280v ... passed HCImem 450% ... Yay!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What next? You guessed it 1T, raised DRam another bin to 1.376v and it eventually booted, but only one stick ... tried DRAM up to 1.44v no change.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is where my questions start, apparently the "reset" button on the mobo (Z170 Hero) doesn't take you back to the bios with "F5 Optimized Defaults"! My ASRock board had a neet little button on the back that actually "reset" everything. While this mobo just cycles? I thought maybe it's trying to train the memory, so I let it cycle (restart) a few times on it's own (sometimes by hitting "reset") sometimes it would pause at code 41 but most always hang at code 55. Alright I need to start over and get back to the bios, and the only way I achieved this was with a hard shutdown wait 30s Restart and the overclocking failed screen appears hit F1. If this is the normal sequence, how many times would you hit the reset button in the hopes the memory will "train" if in fact that is what it's trying to do? I feel naked without a bios chip on hand, but I heard it is really hard to break this newer tech. Do you guys have bios chips on standby?
> 
> Dang here I go again ... so lets get to the questions/info ...
> 
> 1) Iv'e been leaving XMP enabled for now while only setting primaries(command rate)/voltage is that OK?
> Do I have to disable XMP when I move on to secondaries etc?
> 2) MRC Fastboot, I'm leaving it on AUTO, tried it disabled didn't make any difference. But what about "Fast Boot" on the My Favorites page? It's enabled, will it effect memory training???
> 3) Which HWInfo name for monitoring DRAM temps? OR I see some guys reading "Dimm" temps?
> 4) What else should I try to get 1T stable? I really want this without dropping to 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I went for the 15-15-15-36 2T @1.360v ... all good HCImem 500% ... But i need to work on all other timings, does someone have a screenshot of the stock timings for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ kit?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a data base of screenshots (timings) I can look at for improvement on this setup?
> 
> Any and all comments welcome ... and apologies for the wall-o-text but I find it useful for others that are at the same (newbie) state of progression I'm at right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS @Scone I could properly post the above for charting, but didn't think they would be of use because of stock CPU settings for now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a screen shot of the xmp profile for the 3600Mhz cl16 kit.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Then some OC's
Click to expand...

Thanks! +R for the help ... BUT I was looking for the C15 stock XMP [F4-3600C15D-16GTZ ] kit timings, as I already have the C16 kit








But those are definitely different than my stock 3600 C16 XMP timings below ...



Thanks again for the OC timings, I'll file them away, but I'm not ready to tackle 3800+ settings as I hear it is a Bear with Z170 4 dimm boards


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Just recieved my TridentZ F4-3600C16D-16GTZ (Newegg sale $139) but before that I was experimenting with my Corsair Platinum's CMD32GX4M4A2666C15 and was able to get them stable at 3000 15-15-39 2T w/1.408v ...
> 
> But I was never able to get them stable with 1T ... being old school I have a real hangup with always running 1T. Which leads to my frustration with my new Tridents. 1st boot code 55 (Asus manual says slots A2/B2) ... *Wrong* but they booted fine in A1/B1 ... No CPU overclock(stock) then set XMP 3600 manual primaries 16-16-36 DRAM 1.35v (bios 1.344v) everything else on AUTO. SPI/Aida64/MaxMem all fine but unimpressive. Ran HCI Memtest and they failed around the 150% range. Reset DRAM next bin up @1.360v / IO Auto 1.216v / SA Auto 1.280v ... passed HCImem 450% ... Yay!
> 
> What next? You guessed it 1T, raised DRam another bin to 1.376v and it eventually booted, but only one stick ... tried DRAM up to 1.44v no change.
> 
> Here is where my questions start, apparently the "reset" button on the mobo (Z170 Hero) doesn't take you back to the bios with "F5 Optimized Defaults"! My ASRock board had a neet little button on the back that actually "reset" everything. While this mobo just cycles? I thought maybe it's trying to train the memory, so I let it cycle (restart) a few times on it's own (sometimes by hitting "reset") sometimes it would pause at code 41 but most always hang at code 55. Alright I need to start over and get back to the bios, and the only way I achieved this was with a hard shutdown wait 30s Restart and the overclocking failed screen appears hit F1. If this is the normal sequence, how many times would you hit the reset button in the hopes the memory will "train" if in fact that is what it's trying to do? I feel naked without a bios chip on hand, but I heard it is really hard to break this newer tech. Do you guys have bios chips on standby?
> 
> Dang here I go again ... so lets get to the questions/info ...
> 
> 1) Iv'e been leaving XMP enabled for now while only setting primaries(command rate)/voltage is that OK?
> Do I have to disable XMP when I move on to secondaries etc?
> 2) MRC Fastboot, I'm leaving it on AUTO, tried it disabled didn't make any difference. But what about "Fast Boot" on the My Favorites page? It's enabled, will it effect memory training???
> 3) Which HWInfo name for monitoring DRAM temps? OR I see some guys reading "Dimm" temps?
> 4) What else should I try to get 1T stable? I really want this without dropping to 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I went for the 15-15-15-36 2T @1.360v ... all good HCImem 500% ... But i need to work on all other timings, does someone have a screenshot of the stock XMP timings for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ kit? I know JP has this kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a data base of screenshots (timings) I can look at for improvement on this setup?
> 
> Any and all comments welcome ... and apologies for the wall-o-text but I find it useful for others that are at the same (newbie) state of progression I'm at right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS @Scone I could properly post the above for charting, but didn't think they would be of use because of stock CPU settings for now?


I have the same kit as you and you should be able to run 1T without having to increase your DRAM voltage or your IO/SA voltages either.

Too much voltage with B-Die, can have the same effect as not enough voltage and cause it to fail training and or not be stable. It is very voltage sensitive and does not just scale up with more voltage. E- Die is more forgiving and does scale up better the more voltage you give it.

First thing to check, is to make sure you are running the latest bios revision for your board.
Then reset your bios back to factory defaults.
Manually set your primary timings to 16-16-16-36-1T.
Set your DRAM voltage in your bios to 1.35 volts.
Set both your VCCIO and VCCSA voltages to 1.2 volts.
Save and reboot and it should pass training.

Your default XMP timings are different to mine, but that comes down to the board as my tRFC is 535 on my MOCF board, but on some of the other Z170 boards I have run, it defaults to 630 like yours. Not that it matters much at default timings anyway.

Here is my default XMP timings as per my MOCF board :


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> 
> Thanks! +R for the help ... BUT I was looking for the C15 stock XMP [F4-3600C15D-16GTZ ] kit timings, as I already have the C16 kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But those are definitely different than my stock 3600 C16 XMP timings below ...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the OC timings, I'll file them away, but I'm not ready to tackle 3800+ settings as I hear it is a Bear with Z170 4 dimm boards


If you are using XMP, set Maximus Tweak Mode to 2 and try that. Use the default timings first, with CR1, and Maximus Tweak Mode 2. If that works, you can tune from there.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> If you are using XMP, set Maximus Tweak Mode to 2 and try that. Use the default timings first, with CR1, and Maximus Tweak Mode 2. If that works, you can tune from there.


Hey Raja i have noticed that in quite a few of your reply posts, that you suggest Maximus Tweak 2 for most of the Asus boards including the Apex, which ill be getting shortly.

It seems that Mode 2 is the one that trains ddr4 memory better compared to Mode 1. Is that correct or is Mode 1 better? What exactly are the differences between the two Tweak modes?


----------



## Silent Scone

Removed


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic - 7350k @ 5.2Ghz 1.45vcore - 4133Mhz 18-18-18-42-1 -VDIMM 1.425v - VCCIO 1.2v - VCCSA 1.3v - HCI 420%
Just set primaries as they are and trtp to 6 everything else auto.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic - 7350k @ 5.2Ghz 1.45vcore - 4133Mhz 18-18-18-42-1 -VDIMM 1.425v - VCCIO 1.2v - VCCSA 1.3v - HCI 420%
> Just set primaries as they are and trtp to 6 everything else auto.


Nice. What's the i3 like day to day?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Hey Raja i have noticed that in quite a few of your reply posts, that you suggest Maximus Tweak 2 for most of the Asus boards including the Apex, which ill be getting shortly.
> 
> It seems that Mode 2 is the one that trains ddr4 memory better compared to Mode 1. Is that correct or is Mode 1 better? What exactly are the differences between the two Tweak modes?


Mode 2 works better for some memory modules, so give it a try if you're using XMP.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice. What's the i3 like day to day?


A little slow in some multi threaded area's but get's the job done.

ran it over night for 1150%

lilchronic - 7350k @ 5.2Ghz 1.45vcore - 4133Mhz 18-18-18-42-1 -VDIMM 1.425v - VCCIO 1.2v - VCCSA 1.3v - HCI 1150%


----------



## TomcatV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Just recieved my TridentZ F4-3600C16D-16GTZ (Newegg sale $139) but before that I was experimenting with my Corsair Platinum's CMD32GX4M4A2666C15 and was able to get them stable at 3000 15-15-39 2T w/1.408v ...
> 
> But I was never able to get them stable with 1T ... being old school I have a real hangup with always running 1T. Which leads to my frustration with my new Tridents. 1st boot code 55 (Asus manual says slots A2/B2) ... *Wrong* but they booted fine in A1/B1 ... No CPU overclock(stock) then set XMP 3600 manual primaries 16-16-36 DRAM 1.35v (bios 1.344v) everything else on AUTO. SPI/Aida64/MaxMem all fine but unimpressive. Ran HCI Memtest and they failed around the 150% range. Reset DRAM next bin up @1.360v / IO Auto 1.216v / SA Auto 1.280v ... passed HCImem 450% ... Yay!
> 
> What next? You guessed it 1T, raised DRam another bin to 1.376v and it eventually booted, but only one stick ... tried DRAM up to 1.44v no change.
> 
> Here is where my questions start, apparently the "reset" button on the mobo (Z170 Hero) doesn't take you back to the bios with "F5 Optimized Defaults"! My ASRock board had a neet little button on the back that actually "reset" everything. While this mobo just cycles? I thought maybe it's trying to train the memory, so I let it cycle (restart) a few times on it's own (sometimes by hitting "reset") sometimes it would pause at code 41 but most always hang at code 55. Alright I need to start over and get back to the bios, and the only way I achieved this was with a hard shutdown wait 30s Restart and the overclocking failed screen appears hit F1. If this is the normal sequence, how many times would you hit the reset button in the hopes the memory will "train" if in fact that is what it's trying to do? I feel naked without a bios chip on hand, but I heard it is really hard to break this newer tech. Do you guys have bios chips on standby?
> 
> Dang here I go again ... so lets get to the questions/info ...
> 
> 1) Iv'e been leaving XMP enabled for now while only setting primaries(command rate)/voltage is that OK?
> Do I have to disable XMP when I move on to secondaries etc?
> 2) MRC Fastboot, I'm leaving it on AUTO, tried it disabled didn't make any difference. But what about "Fast Boot" on the My Favorites page? It's enabled, will it effect memory training???
> 3) Which HWInfo name for monitoring DRAM temps? OR I see some guys reading "Dimm" temps?
> 4) What else should I try to get 1T stable? I really want this without dropping to 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I went for the 15-15-15-36 2T @1.360v ... all good HCImem 500% ... But i need to work on all other timings, does someone have a screenshot of the stock XMP timings for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ kit? I know JP has this kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a data base of screenshots (timings) I can look at for improvement on this setup?
> 
> Any and all comments welcome ... and apologies for the wall-o-text but I find it useful for others that are at the same (newbie) state of progression I'm at right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS @Scone I could properly post the above for charting, but didn't think they would be of use because of stock CPU settings for now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same kit as you and you should be able to run 1T without having to increase your DRAM voltage or your IO/SA voltages either.
> 
> *Too much voltage with B-Die*, can have the same effect as not enough voltage and cause it to fail training and or not be stable. It is very voltage sensitive and does not just scale up with more voltage. E- Die is more forgiving and does scale up better the more voltage you give it.
> 
> First thing to check, is to make sure you are running the latest bios revision for your board.
> Then reset your bios back to factory defaults.
> Manually set your primary timings to 16-16-16-36-1T.
> Set your DRAM voltage in your bios to 1.35 volts.
> Set both your VCCIO and VCCSA voltages to 1.2 volts.
> Save and reboot and it should pass training.
> 
> Your default XMP timings are different to mine, but that comes down to the board as my tRFC is 535 on my MOCF board, but on some of the other Z170 boards I have run, it defaults to 630 like yours. Not that it matters much at default timings anyway.
> 
> Here is my default XMP timings as per my MOCF board :
Click to expand...

Thanks! +R








Great info, especially IO/SA B-Die overvolting, I'd read that but thought it only came into play @appx1.3v. Additionally the boards 2dimm vs 4 dimm setting different XMP timings is new to me and throws another wrench into the equation, but critical to be aware of









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> 
> Thanks! +R for the help ... BUT I was looking for the C15 stock XMP [F4-3600C15D-16GTZ ] kit timings, as I already have the C16 kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But those are definitely different than my stock 3600 C16 XMP timings below ...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the OC timings, I'll file them away, but I'm not ready to tackle 3800+ settings as I hear it is a Bear with Z170 4 dimm boards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are using XMP, set Maximus Tweak Mode to 2 and try that. Use the default timings first, with CR1, and Maximus Tweak Mode 2. If that works, you can tune from there.
Click to expand...

Thanks! +R ... I had forgotten about the mode 1&2 settings with XMP! As I understand it mode 1 is a little looser than mode 2? And I'm good with MRC Fast Boot enabled for training? How many times would you push the "reset" button for training until you call it a Fail?

Thanks again everyone! I did get C15 stable with my day to day 4.7GHz OC. But it took a couple tries, very temperamental machine









TomcatV - [email protected] 1.312Vcore - 3600 15-15-15-36-2 VDimm 1.360v - VCCIO 1.216v - VCCSA 1.280v - HCI 550%


----------



## [email protected]

There's more to the tweak modes than absolute "timings", so I wouldn't call it one way or the other. Its just worth checking mode 2 if encountering problems when using XMP. For retries, I'd stop at three, although, that's a rule for benching rather than 24/7 setups.


----------



## lilchronic

Asrock used to have similar options called stability / Performance. Self explanatory right? Asus should take notes.







Or at least have something that explains it when highlighted over the different tweak modes.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Asrock used to have similar options called stability / Performance. Self explanatory right? Asus should take notes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or at least have something that explains it when highlighted over the different tweak modes.


Hello

If those terms are correct I'm not sure how the setting is similar to the ASUS Tweak Mode. Such things as termination voltages and impedance matching is more about module compatibility then performance/stability.


----------



## Praz

Duplicate post.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> If those terms are correct I'm not sure how the setting is similar to the ASUS Tweak Mode. Such things as termination voltages and impedance matching is more about module compatibility then performance/stability.


Oh ok.

I was to referring to z77 oc formula dram timing mode: Performance and stability options, thought it was similar to asus tweak modes.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Asrock used to have similar options called stability / Performance. Self explanatory right? Asus should take notes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or at least have something that explains it when highlighted over the different tweak modes.


Given what my post alluded to and what Praz explained, the relationship wouldn't apply in a performance/stability manner. One man's cure is another man's poison.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice. What's the i3 like day to day?


it's actually a very snappy cpu for routine work etc. THe current crop seems to top out in the 5.1-5.2 range at sane voltages. Hopefully the process "matures" and these little unlocked 2 cores can stretch their legs.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Given what my post alluded to and what Praz explained, the relationship wouldn't apply in a performance/stability manner. One man's cure is another man's poison.


indeed


----------



## TomcatV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Just recieved my TridentZ F4-3600C16D-16GTZ (Newegg sale $139) but before that I was experimenting with my Corsair Platinum's CMD32GX4M4A2666C15 and was able to get them stable at 3000 15-15-39 2T w/1.408v ...
> 
> But I was never able to get them stable with 1T ... being old school I have a real hangup with always running 1T. Which leads to my frustration with my new Tridents. 1st boot code 55 (Asus manual says slots A2/B2) ... *Wrong* but they booted fine in A1/B1 ... No CPU overclock(stock) then set XMP 3600 manual primaries 16-16-36 DRAM 1.35v (bios 1.344v) everything else on AUTO. SPI/Aida64/MaxMem all fine but unimpressive. Ran HCI Memtest and they failed around the 150% range. Reset DRAM next bin up @1.360v / IO Auto 1.216v / SA Auto 1.280v ... passed HCImem 450% ... Yay!
> 
> What next? You guessed it 1T, raised DRam another bin to 1.376v and it eventually booted, but only one stick ... tried DRAM up to 1.44v no change.
> 
> Here is where my questions start, apparently the "reset" button on the mobo (Z170 Hero) doesn't take you back to the bios with "F5 Optimized Defaults"! My ASRock board had a neet little button on the back that actually "reset" everything. While this mobo just cycles? I thought maybe it's trying to train the memory, so I let it cycle (restart) a few times on it's own (sometimes by hitting "reset") sometimes it would pause at code 41 but most always hang at code 55. Alright I need to start over and get back to the bios, and the only way I achieved this was with a hard shutdown wait 30s Restart and the overclocking failed screen appears hit F1. If this is the normal sequence, how many times would you hit the reset button in the hopes the memory will "train" if in fact that is what it's trying to do? I feel naked without a bios chip on hand, but I heard it is really hard to break this newer tech. Do you guys have bios chips on standby?
> 
> Dang here I go again ... so lets get to the questions/info ...
> 
> 1) Iv'e been leaving XMP enabled for now while only setting primaries(command rate)/voltage is that OK?
> Do I have to disable XMP when I move on to secondaries etc?
> 2) MRC Fastboot, I'm leaving it on AUTO, tried it disabled didn't make any difference. But what about "Fast Boot" on the My Favorites page? It's enabled, will it effect memory training???
> 3) Which HWInfo name for monitoring DRAM temps? OR I see some guys reading "Dimm" temps?
> 4) What else should I try to get 1T stable? I really want this without dropping to 3200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I went for the 15-15-15-36 2T @1.360v ... all good HCImem 500% ... But i need to work on all other timings, does someone have a screenshot of the stock XMP timings for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ kit? I know JP has this kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a data base of screenshots (timings) I can look at for improvement on this setup?
> 
> Any and all comments welcome ... and apologies for the wall-o-text but I find it useful for others that are at the same (newbie) state of progression I'm at right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS @Scone I could properly post the above for charting, but didn't think they would be of use because of stock CPU settings for now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same kit as you and you should be able to run 1T without having to increase your DRAM voltage or your IO/SA voltages either.
> 
> *Too much voltage with B-Die*, can have the same effect as not enough voltage and cause it to fail training and or not be stable. It is very voltage sensitive and does not just scale up with more voltage. E- Die is more forgiving and does scale up better the more voltage you give it.
> 
> First thing to check, is to make sure you are running the latest bios revision for your board.
> Then reset your bios back to factory defaults.
> Manually set your primary timings to 16-16-16-36-1T.
> Set your DRAM voltage in your bios to 1.35 volts.
> Set both your VCCIO and VCCSA voltages to 1.2 volts.
> Save and reboot and it should pass training.
> 
> Your default XMP timings are different to mine, but that comes down to the board as my tRFC is 535 on my MOCF board, but on some of the other Z170 boards I have run, it defaults to 630 like yours. Not that it matters much at default timings anyway.
> 
> Here is my default XMP timings as per my MOCF board :
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> 
> Thanks! +R for the help ... BUT I was looking for the C15 stock XMP [F4-3600C15D-16GTZ ] kit timings, as I already have the C16 kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But those are definitely different than my stock 3600 C16 XMP timings below ...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the OC timings, I'll file them away, but I'm not ready to tackle 3800+ settings as I hear it is a Bear with Z170 4 dimm boards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are using XMP, set Maximus Tweak Mode to 2 and try that. Use the default timings first, with CR1, and Maximus Tweak Mode 2. If that works, you can tune from there.
Click to expand...

Tried so many combo's I'm dizzy ... almost all of them ended with the Q-Code 41 endless restart loop!








What the heck does that code mean? ... googled everywhere








I am using bios 2202 (2nd newest) didn't want to try latest 3101 as I understand it's just the Kabylake update and some were having problems unnecessarily









There were 2 exceptions to the 41 endless loop result ...
1) Following Raja's XMP Mode 2 advice, it hung at code 55 once. All others code 41 loop.
2) Getting desperate, F5 reset and manual 16-16-36-CR1 *3200* 1.4Vdimm / 1.2v IO / 1.2v SA it did it's thing at 41, but on the second cycle it moved on BUT then hung @ 55







... Also tried 3600 18-18-18-44-CR1 = code 41 ... What is with Command rate 1 and my setup??? Bad ram? Bad board? Bad IMC? wish I had another rig to test with









What are the very upper limits for IO/SA? AND include that when I set IO/SA at 1.2v the board boosts it to IO 1.232v / SA 1.224v so is 1.3 the upper limits for testing? AND for 24/7 useage? (see screenie below)

What I learned so far, this is one tough board, I hate hard shutdowns but this board takes like a champ.
Running out of options but I will still try reversing Dimms A&B channels etc. I hate Win10!, hasn't ever seemed totally stable like Win7, might try a fresh install. Any more idea's welcomed!!!

With regards to Cache ... will my ram be more stable at say 48/45 or stock Cache 41 (48/41) learn me ... does it really matter except for benching?

Still looking for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ XMP timings in a 4 Dimmm board









IO and SA are manually set in the bios @1.2v


Weird how IO is getting more volts than SA, thought if anything it would be the other way around


----------



## Mikeg1




----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mikeg1*


Hello

Please see post #1 in this thread for the required screenshots.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Tried so many combo's I'm dizzy ... almost all of them ended with the Q-Code 41 endless restart loop!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the heck does that code mean? ... googled everywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am using bios 2202 (2nd newest) didn't want to try latest 3101 as I understand it's just the Kabylake update and some were having problems unnecessarily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were 2 exceptions to the 41 endless loop result ...
> 1) Following Raja's XMP Mode 2 advice, it hung at code 55 once. All others code 41 loop.
> 2) Getting desperate, F5 reset and manual 16-16-36-CR1 *3200* 1.4Vdimm / 1.2v IO / 1.2v SA it did it's thing at 41, but on the second cycle it moved on BUT then hung @ 55
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... Also tried 3600 18-18-18-44-CR1 = code 41 ... What is with Command rate 1 and my setup??? Bad ram? Bad board? Bad IMC? wish I had another rig to test with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are the very upper limits for IO/SA? AND include that when I set IO/SA at 1.2v the board boosts it to IO 1.232v / SA 1.224v so is 1.3 the upper limits for testing? AND for 24/7 useage? (see screenie below)
> 
> What I learned so far, this is one tough board, I hate hard shutdowns but this board takes like a champ.
> Running out of options but I will still try reversing Dimms A&B channels etc. I hate Win10!, hasn't ever seemed totally stable like Win7, might try a fresh install. Any more idea's welcomed!!!
> 
> With regards to Cache ... will my ram be more stable at say 48/45 or stock Cache 41 (48/41) learn me ... does it really matter except for benching?
> 
> Still looking for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ XMP timings in a 4 Dimmm board
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IO and SA are manually set in the bios @1.2v
> 
> 
> Weird how IO is getting more volts than SA, thought if anything it would be the other way around


If you haven't already, put the memory in slots A2 and B2; those are better for one DIMM per channel. Then relax the primary timings, and work on things gradually. You can then work out when you need to increase voltage and which sub-timings you need to relax. SA and IO requirements can go up to 1.35V (SA) and 1.30V (IO) on some CPUs at these speeds. Don't have long-term data, and I havent probed for current, so cannot tell you what is safe.

Anecdotal note: I would go for the latest UEFI build for Kaby Lake CPUS btw, as the pre 3*** series builds don't have the fully functional microcode updates for KBL.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Still looking for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ XMP timings in a 4 Dimmm board ::


Here ya go. FWIW, I can't get 1T stable. I can get into windows and bench, but Google Stress test shows many errors.


----------



## TomcatV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Tried so many combo's I'm dizzy ... almost all of them ended with the Q-Code 41 endless restart loop!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the heck does that code mean? ... googled everywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am using bios 2202 (2nd newest) didn't want to try latest 3101 as I understand it's just the Kabylake update and some were having problems unnecessarily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were 2 exceptions to the 41 endless loop result ...
> 1) Following Raja's XMP Mode 2 advice, it hung at code 55 once. All others code 41 loop.
> 2) Getting desperate, F5 reset and manual 16-16-36-CR1 *3200* 1.4Vdimm / 1.2v IO / 1.2v SA it did it's thing at 41, but on the second cycle it moved on BUT then hung @ 55
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... Also tried 3600 18-18-18-44-CR1 = code 41 ... What is with Command rate 1 and my setup??? Bad ram? Bad board? Bad IMC? wish I had another rig to test with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are the very upper limits for IO/SA? AND include that when I set IO/SA at 1.2v the board boosts it to IO 1.232v / SA 1.224v so is 1.3 the upper limits for testing? AND for 24/7 useage? (see screenie below)
> 
> What I learned so far, this is one tough board, I hate hard shutdowns but this board takes like a champ.
> Running out of options but I will still try reversing Dimms A&B channels etc. I hate Win10!, hasn't ever seemed totally stable like Win7, might try a fresh install. Any more idea's welcomed!!!
> 
> With regards to Cache ... will my ram be more stable at say 48/45 or stock Cache 41 (48/41) learn me ... does it really matter except for benching?
> 
> Still looking for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ XMP timings in a 4 Dimmm board
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IO and SA are manually set in the bios @1.2v
> 
> 
> Weird how IO is getting more volts than SA, thought if anything it would be the other way around
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you haven't already, put the memory in slots A2 and B2; those are better for one DIMM per channel. Then relax the primary timings, and work on things gradually. You can then work out when you need to increase voltage and which sub-timings you need to relax. SA and IO requirements can go up to 1.35V (SA) and 1.30V (IO) on some CPUs at these speeds. Don't have long-term data, and I havent probed for current, so cannot tell you what is safe.
> 
> Anecdotal note: I would go for the latest UEFI build for Kaby Lake CPUS btw, as the pre 3*** series builds don't have the fully functional microcode updates for KBL.
Click to expand...

A2/B2 was my very 1st try as per the manual (actually stated in my 1st post) code 55 result, switched to A1/B1 and booted right up, but A2/B2 "re-try" is on my list today









Always been a DFI/ASRock guy, but the way this board is handling things (+ innovation) and your reliable availability has made me a *convert!* Remember "Oscar" back in the day with DFI, & AngryGames DFI Street ... kinda reminds me of that, great communication leading to innovation









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Still looking for the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ XMP timings in a 4 Dimmm board ::
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go. FWIW, I can't get 1T stable. I can get into windows and bench, but Google Stress test shows many errors.
Click to expand...

Thanks! ... +R








Very interesting, and just to confirm those are untouched stock GSkill XMP timings and what motherboard was it on? Bummer we might be the only ones not to achieve 1T, at least I don't feel alone anymore








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> There's more to the tweak modes than absolute "timings", so I wouldn't call it one way or the other. Its just worth checking mode 2 if encountering problems when using XMP. For retries, *I'd stop at three*, although, that's a rule for benching rather than 24/7 setups.


Thanks! +R ... Your the only one to "catch" (decipher) what I was trying to get at


----------



## [email protected]

Yeah, give those slots a try again. Would try the updated UEFI build, too.

DFI...that brings back some good memories. And some weird ones, too...heh


----------



## TomcatV

*AYFKM!!!*
Guess it can happen to the best of us, back to basics RIGHT!









Tried A2/B2 again, and this time it worked, booted right up, must have mis-seated initial time?
Set CR1 and it trained instantly ... I'm so HAPPY!









Don't have to think about that new Ryzen 1700X rig for awhile ... Still have to stability test, but sometimes you know when a rig feels right, and this one finally does ... OOOPs probably just Jinxed myself











*OH and THANKS! to everyone for your help*









@Raja ... Yep Angry and the "Street" was a bizarre? ride at X's ... luved every minute of it


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Very interesting, and just to confirm those are untouched stock GSkill XMP timings and what motherboard was it on? Bummer we might be the only ones not to achieve 1T, at least I don't feel alone anymore


Yup. Asrock Z270 K6 Fatality. The DFI talk takes me back to the Nforce 2 era







:

*edit* Had some luck finding stable settings last night.


----------



## TomcatV

Slight tweaks to primary's (C15/CR1) for kit F4-3600C16D-16GTZ ...
Note: Blue screen DRIVER_CORRUPTED_EXPOOL with Cache OC @45
So yea, there is my answer, an overclocked cache can negatively effect your ram stability?
Or should I say, a now unstable cache, effects ram stability ... semantics









TomcatV / [email protected]/4.1 / 3600MHz 15-15-15-36-1T-1.360v / IO-1.2v SA-1.225v / HCI-400%


I'm taking a brake for awhile, will work on higher speeds/tighter secondaries later








Shows how tired I am, but a very happy tired after solving my CR1 circus


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Slight tweaks to primary's (C15/CR1) for kit F4-3600C16D-16GTZ ...
> Note: Blue screen DRIVER_CORRUPTED_EXPOOL with Cache OC @45
> So yea, there is my answer, an overclocked cache can negatively effect your ram stability?
> Or should I say, a now unstable cache, effects ram stability ... semantics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TomcatV / [email protected] / 3600MHz 15-15-15-36-1T-1.360v / IO-1.2v SA-1.225v / HCI-400%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm taking a brake for awhile, will work on higher speeds/tighter secondaries later


Is that a disc brake?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> Slight tweaks to primary's (C15/CR1) for kit F4-3600C16D-16GTZ ...
> Note: Blue screen DRIVER_CORRUPTED_EXPOOL with Cache OC @45
> So yea, there is my answer, an overclocked cache can negatively effect your ram stability?
> Or should I say, a now unstable cache, effects ram stability ... semantics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TomcatV / [email protected]/4.1 / 3600MHz 15-15-15-36-1T-1.360v / IO-1.2v SA-1.225v / HCI-400%
> 
> 
> I'm taking a brake for awhile, will work on higher speeds/tighter secondaries later
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shows how tired I am, but a very happy tired after solving my CR1 circus


Nice









Will add additional results over the weekend


----------



## inedenimadam

Any disadvantage to running stressapptest through bash in W10?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> Any disadvantage to running stressapptest through bash in W10?


Yes. Running through Windows 10 means less memory is able to assign to the test, and Linux requires a marginally higher level of stability. Couple those things with the fact it's best to keep all results on the same platform. Anything submitted to the thread ideally should be run through Mint.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://abload.de/image.php?img=2001spivhujf.jpg


Bare minimum coverage is 400%. 100% constitutes as a whole lap. More obviously, can't even see all the instances running in the screenshot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> [email protected]/4.6-Maximus IX hero--3866Mhz-C17-18-18-39-2T----1.408v---SA 1.280v IO 1.256---HCI 400%
> 
> 
> 
> This board is a bit better than my strix z270e was with memory. Got to windows login but it hung at 1t with dram voltage at 1.45 with stock timings. I'll give it a try again if there's a bios update.


Don't forget to try tweak modes.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> Any disadvantage to running stressapptest through bash in W10?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Running through Windows 10 means less memory is able to assign to the test, and Linux requires a marginally higher level of stability. Couple those things with the fact it's best to keep all results on the same platform. Anything submitted to the thread ideally should be run through Mint.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Before I make any subs I will get around to installing mint. For some basic tuning I am doing now on a gaming rig, I will just use Bash10.


----------



## czin125

http://www.overclockers.com/asus-rog-maximus-ix-apex-motherboard-review/
Feb 17, 2017

"The second screenshot shows me leaning on the memory a bit. I was able to reach a bench stable 4300 MHz CL18 using 1.575V on the DRAM itself and 1.35V/1.30V for SA and IO respectively. One thing to note is that the 4266 memory multiplier did not work. I had to walk it up to 4300MHz with BCLK. Not a big deal, but worth mentioning."
1.575v for 4300 18-19-19-39? It should be lower, right?

https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/press-release-rog-unveils-latest-maximus-ix-and-strix-gaming-motherboards/
"The improvements usher in support for memory frequencies well beyond DDR4-4266. In-house, we've already achieved perfectly stable speeds of DDR4-4415 with select memory modules."


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/asus-rog-maximus-ix-apex-motherboard-review/
> Feb 17, 2017
> 
> "The second screenshot shows me leaning on the memory a bit. I was able to reach a bench stable 4300 MHz CL18 using 1.575V on the DRAM itself and 1.35V/1.30V for SA and IO respectively. One thing to note is that the 4266 memory multiplier did not work. I had to walk it up to 4300MHz with BCLK. Not a big deal, but worth mentioning."
> 1.575v for 4300 18-19-19-39? It should be lower, right?
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/press-release-rog-unveils-latest-maximus-ix-and-strix-gaming-motherboards/
> "The improvements usher in support for memory frequencies well beyond DDR4-4266. In-house, we've already achieved perfectly stable speeds of DDR4-4415 with select memory modules."


Not sure what it is you are asking? Depends on the kit that was used...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> Thanks for that. Before I make any subs I will get around to installing mint. For some basic tuning I am doing now on a gaming rig, I will just use Bash10.


You can run puppy linux off a USB - it works like a charm and is portable between rigs. I have used this on x87, 3 z170, x79, and 2 x99 rigs.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> Any disadvantage to running stressapptest through bash in W10?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Running through Windows 10 means less memory is able to assign to the test, and Linux requires a marginally higher level of stability. Couple those things with the fact it's best to keep all results on the same platform. Anything submitted to the thread ideally should be run through Mint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for that. Before I make any subs I will get around to installing mint. For some basic tuning I am doing now on a gaming rig, I will just use Bash10.
Click to expand...

Search my username and Puppy Linux and you'll find a how to with a download link and how to set Puppy up..









I found on some video cards I had to use the version of Puppy from that link.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/asus-rog-maximus-ix-apex-motherboard-review/
> Feb 17, 2017
> 
> "The second screenshot shows me leaning on the memory a bit. I was able to reach a bench stable 4300 MHz CL18 using 1.575V on the DRAM itself and 1.35V/1.30V for SA and IO respectively. One thing to note is that the 4266 memory multiplier did not work. I had to walk it up to 4300MHz with BCLK. Not a big deal, but worth mentioning."
> 1.575v for 4300 18-19-19-39? It should be lower, right?
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/press-release-rog-unveils-latest-maximus-ix-and-strix-gaming-motherboards/
> "The improvements usher in support for memory frequencies well beyond DDR4-4266. In-house, we've already achieved perfectly stable speeds of DDR4-4415 with select memory modules."


The DDR4-4266 ratio does not work - that's a platform limitation. You have to use the DDR4-4133 ratio with BCLK.

Being able to hit DDR4-4415, you need a very good set of memory modules and a good CPU. Note the edge up article didn't state the DDR4-4266 ratio worked - it stated frequencies, not ratios. I wrote it and I stand by it.

I'll also paste what the Edge Up OC guide states:
_
"Also noteworthy is that the highest working memory ratio is DDR4-4133. Higher speeds require adjustment of BCLK with the DDR4-4133 (or lower) ratio selected. If you do purchase a memory kit rated faster than DDR4-4133, don't be alarmed if you see BCLK being changed to a higher value when you select XMP. The change is mandatory."_


----------



## MR-e

Have you guys noticed a price hike with the high binned kits? I was looking to sell my TZ 3600 C15 kits and replace with dom plat's purely for aesthetics reasoning, but boy have the special editions gone up! $90 extra now


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 7700k @ 5.1/4.5. -- 3600Mhz-15-15-15-38-2T. -- 1.353v -- SA 1.15v. -- Stressapptest -- 4 Hours



Ran at the same settings as below RB run. Primary timings set the rest auto.


----------



## inedenimadam

The more I play with DDR4, the more I realize just how closely cache and RAM overclocking are tied.


----------



## Nick the Slick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> The more I play with DDR4, the more I realize just how closely cache and RAM overclocking are tied.


I noticed a relationship a while back as well. Maybe I'm extremely slow and the last person to realize this or to some it may be like "No $%*$ Sherlock", but going from 4.6GHz cache to 4.8GHz cache (all other things equal) consistently nets me a 1-2 ns decrease in memory latency (Yes memory, not cache) in the AIDA64 benchmark. A nice boost to bandwidth as well.

4.6GHz cache


4.8GHz cache


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nick the Slick*
> 
> I noticed a relationship a while back as well. Maybe I'm extremely slow and the last person to realize this or to some it may be like "No $%*$ Sherlock", but going from 4.6GHz cache to 4.8GHz cache (all other things equal) consistently nets me a 1-2 ns decrease in memory latency (Yes memory, not cache) in the AIDA64 benchmark. A nice boost to bandwidth as well.
> 
> 4.6GHz cache
> 
> 
> 4.8GHz cache


Overclocking the Uncore improves L3 access times. In turn, you're able to access memory more frequently over a given time period. More data being transferred over the bus in a given timeframe always has implications for stability and voltage requirements.


----------



## djgar

It appears to me one place that cache would help is copying large files - I notice the cache frequency gets maxed while doing this.


----------



## Enterprise24

I will test 400% HCI when I have some more time.


----------



## madmeatballs

Okay, I have been trying get my G.Skill Trident Z 3866MHz 16GB kit to work with my 7700k 5GHz oc. I have a Maximus IX Hero. I've already tested the kit on stock cpu settings with xmp on, it is stable. I'm currently trying different VCCIO/VCCSA combinations, I just can't seem to find the right voltage for the OC. Is there anything else I can adjust? (I'm new to ram ocing, also using HCI to determine stability)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> Okay, I have been trying get my G.Skill Trident Z 3866MHz 16GB kit to work with my 7700k 5GHz oc. I have a Maximus IX Hero. I've already tested the kit on stock cpu settings with xmp on, it is stable. I'm currently trying different VCCIO/VCCSA combinations, I just can't seem to find the right voltage for the OC. Is there anything else I can adjust? (I'm new to ram ocing, also using HCI to determine stability)


so it runs XMP with the cpu at stock but not when the chip is overclocked? Try lowering the cache ratio 1 or 2 steps at the same vcore. VCCSa and VCCIO voltage will be the next "culprit".


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> More data being transferred over the bus in a given timeframe always has implications for stability and voltage requirements.


That is what I am fighting right now. My core/cache are very well stability checked with XMP enabled (8hour realbench, 8 hour aida cache, GSAT 7200s). If I try to take Command Rate 2-->1 I start getting BSOD 124 when running GSAT. VCore doesn't seem to alleviate the problem...not really sure what knobs to start turning...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> That is what I am fighting right now. My core/cache are very well stability checked with XMP enabled (8hour realbench, 8 hour aida cache, GSAT 7200s). If I try to take Command Rate 2-->1 I start getting BSOD 124 when running GSAT. VCore doesn't seem to alleviate the problem...not really sure what knobs to start turning...


which rig? how much ram... need more info!


----------



## dbLIVEdb

Does anyone here have Patriot Viper Quad channel PC4-27200 3400mhz memory and has been able to successfully OC them past the XMP rating? I have the ASUS X99-AII mobo, and 6800k intel cpu. Although the ram works flawlessly in XMP mode, any slight OC at even 1 mhz increment is failed because of the memory. Any suggestions where to start tweaking besides memory voltages, because going from 1.35v to anything higher doesnt stabilize the OC. Any suggestions would be helpful and I will post results as to anyone else having this issue may have a resource or guideline to refer to, as obviously, my searching didnt give me anything that could stabilize this memory. I can change FSB if I change the memory multiplier, but at that point, I am underclocking the XMP.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> That is what I am fighting right now. My core/cache are very well stability checked with XMP enabled (8hour realbench, 8 hour aida cache, GSAT 7200s). If I try to take Command Rate 2-->1 I start getting BSOD 124 when running GSAT. VCore doesn't seem to alleviate the problem...not really sure what knobs to start turning...


I had a hard time with 13-14-14 / CR1 but no problem with 13-15-13 / CR1 ... desperate times call for desperate measures


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> That is what I am fighting right now. My core/cache are very well stability checked with XMP enabled (8hour realbench, 8 hour aida cache, GSAT 7200s). If I try to take Command Rate 2-->1 I start getting BSOD 124 when running GSAT. VCore doesn't seem to alleviate the problem...not really sure what knobs to start turning...
> 
> 
> 
> which rig? how much ram... need more info!
Click to expand...

x99 Rig, need to update rig builder to reflect 6800k. updated

Core 43x @ 1.375
Cache 36x @ 1.210
32GB 3200 16/18/18/2 XMP

SA default works fine with this kit, even overclocked.
I have not touched VTT or hardly any other settings.


----------



## madmeatballs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> so it runs XMP with the cpu at stock but not when the chip is overclocked? Try lowering the cache ratio 1 or 2 steps at the same vcore. VCCSa and VCCIO voltage will be the next "culprit".


I made it stable with 45core/45cache overclock just had to adjust some voltage. I already tried lowering the cache multiplier, still trying different VCCSA and VCCIO mixes though but it looks like going above 1.28v VCCIO and 1.3 VCCSA makes it more unstable, my vcore is 1.39 btw.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I had a hard time with 13-14-14 / CR1 but no problem with 13-15-13 / CR1 ... desperate times call for desperate measures


This is simply because you are increasing the time to access a different row, you might even find 13-14-13 works just as well if you haven't tried already.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> x99 Rig, need to update rig builder to reflect 6800k. updated
> 
> Core 43x @ 1.375
> Cache 36x @ 1.210
> 32GB 3200 16/18/18/2 XMP
> 
> SA default works fine with this kit, even overclocked.
> I have not touched VTT or hardly any other settings.


VTT scales like with other rails and for this purpose you shouldn't need to move from auto. If you're simply switching to 1T with out adjusting anything else from XMP, you might want to try increasing the memory voltage first and foremost.


----------



## madmeatballs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> so it runs XMP with the cpu at stock but not when the chip is overclocked? Try lowering the cache ratio 1 or 2 steps at the same vcore. VCCSa and VCCIO voltage will be the next "culprit".


Looks like VCCSA/VCCIO v was the culprit (could be some cache too since I brought it down as well).



I had to set VCCIO to 1.33v and VCCSA to 1.3v in bios but take a look at what HWiNFO is reporting for VCCIO and SA. I have LLC set on Level 5 btw.
At least now I know my kit and cpu's sweet spot. I will probably start trying what cache this can handle. I'll probably keep these voltages if nothing else works and see what happens after awhile.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I had a hard time with 13-14-14 / CR1 but no problem with 13-15-13 / CR1 ... desperate times call for desperate measures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is simply because you are increasing the time to access a different row, you might even find 13-14-13 works just as well if you haven't tried already.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> x99 Rig, need to update rig builder to reflect 6800k. updated
> 
> Core 43x @ 1.375
> Cache 36x @ 1.210
> 32GB 3200 16/18/18/2 XMP
> 
> SA default works fine with this kit, even overclocked.
> I have not touched VTT or hardly any other settings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> VTT scales like with other rails and for this purpose you shouldn't need to move from auto. If you're simply switching to 1T with out adjusting anything else from XMP, you might want to try increasing the memory voltage first and foremost.
Click to expand...

Tried all the way up to 1.45.







VTT scales at 50% Vdimm afaik, which is why I have not touched it.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This is simply because you are increasing the time to access a different row, you might even find 13-14-13 works just as well if you haven't tried already.


Hmmm, I think I did but can't recall for sure - I may have to check that out.


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> Tried all the way up to 1.45.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VTT scales at 50% Vdimm afaik, which is why I have not touched it.


I thought that only applied to older platforms? I gain stability when increasing VTT on my platform beyond stock voltage (my IMC is weak). Been running 1.20V VTT for nearly a year on a 5820K along with the Tuning Plan in case anything goes bang. Haven't gone beyond 1.20V, not sure how well it will scale on my chip beyond that and after reading the Haswell-E datasheet (page 51, 53, 60) am comfortable at 1.20V. VCCSA has a minute effect until I exceed 1.18V, testing in 0.01V increments from 0.85V to 1.20V. Behaviour for VCCSA is chip dependent though (as is VTT). Also I get patches of VCCSA where it refuses to POST, such behaviour is to be expected (should be on the first page or somewhere in this thread).

I think 1.45V of V_DIMM is safe with stock VTT anyway.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> x99 Rig, need to update rig builder to reflect 6800k. updated
> 
> Core 43x @ 1.375
> Cache 36x @ 1.210
> 32GB 3200 16/18/18/2 XMP
> 
> SA default works fine with this kit, even overclocked.
> I have not touched VTT or hardly any other settings.


eh... 1T may be too much trouble. It may actually be easier to run the kit at 3400 T2 than 3200T1 on this platform. 1.4-1.425V VDIMM though.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> I made it stable with 45core/45cache overclock just had to adjust some voltage. I already tried lowering the cache multiplier, still trying different VCCSA and VCCIO mixes though but it looks like going above 1.28v VCCIO and 1.3 VCCSA makes it more unstable, my vcore is 1.39 btw.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> Looks like VCCSA/VCCIO v was the culprit (could be some cache too since I brought it down as well).
> 
> 
> 
> I had to set VCCIO to 1.33v and VCCSA to 1.3v in bios but take a look at what HWiNFO is reporting for VCCIO and SA. I have LLC set on Level 5 btw.
> *At least now I know my kit and cpu's sweet spot. I will probably start trying what cache this can handle*. I'll probably keep these voltages if nothing else works and see what happens after awhile.


Some times when pushing ram, the cache will choke no matter what you do (within 24/7 reason).. and vis versa.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> x99 Rig, need to update rig builder to reflect 6800k. updated
> 
> Core 43x @ 1.375
> Cache 36x @ 1.210
> 32GB 3200 16/18/18/2 XMP
> 
> SA default works fine with this kit, even overclocked.
> I have not touched VTT or hardly any other settings.
> 
> 
> 
> eh... 1T may be too much trouble. It may actually be easier to run the kit at 3400 T2 than 3200T1 on this platform. 1.4-1.425V VDIMM though.
Click to expand...

What is funny is that it will run 3400 and 3467 just fine at the same timings and voltage as XMP. I guess I could start pulling the rest of the timings down...its just usually CR is the first stop in pulling down timings, since it makes the most noticeable impact outside of speed, and usally requires next to no tuning...but for some reason this kit+CPU doesn't seem to want to do 1T. Its just an LPX kit, not the best, but I figured I could at least to 1T and drop primaries a notch.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> What is funny is that it will run 3400 and 3467 just fine at the same timings and voltage as XMP. I guess I could start pulling the rest of the timings down...its just usually CR is the first stop in pulling down timings, since it makes the most noticeable impact outside of speed, and usally requires next to no tuning...but for some reason this kit+CPU doesn't seem to want to do 1T. Its just an LPX kit, not the best, but I figured I could at least to 1T and drop primaries a notch.


tell me about it... I gave up on 1T a week after launch, and have been happily running 3400c13 T2 with 64GB since.


----------



## GRABibus

GRABibus -- i75930K @4.6/4.5---3200Mhz-C13-14-13-34-1T----1.4v---SA 0.8v---HCI 8 hours

Motherboard => ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin = 1.8V

http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=17022309411717369814870890.png


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice result


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice result


Yes ?


----------



## Jpmboy

no reason to be modest.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> no reason to be modest.


Clearly, I am happy about this result. ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> Clearly, I am happy about this result. ?


rightly so! Very nice.


----------



## KedarWolf

When you delid a CPU do you apply the thermal paste right on the delidded CPU and put in back that way in the motherboard with no lid?

I ask because I saw a delidding tool where you replace the thermal paste on a Kaby Lake, then glue the lid back on.









http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/dr-delid-aims-to-make-delidding-your-processor-a-much-easier-task/


----------



## madweazl

Some people do run on the bare die but they're fairly delicate so most reapply the IHS. I didnt apply any adhesive when I put it back on but they can move around on you when locking them down.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> What is funny is that it will run 3400 and 3467 just fine at the same timings and voltage as XMP. I guess I could start pulling the rest of the timings down...its just usually CR is the first stop in pulling down timings, since it makes the most noticeable impact outside of speed, and usally requires next to no tuning...but for some reason this kit+CPU doesn't seem to want to do 1T. Its just an LPX kit, not the best, but I figured I could at least to 1T and drop primaries a notch.
> 
> 
> 
> tell me about it... I gave up on 1T a week after launch, and have been happily running 3400c13 T2 with 64GB since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I decided to take it back to basics and spreadsheet everything and run each multi. The RAM will have to wait until later. When I got the new chip I just went straight to 43x and kept cramming voltage until it stabilized...it works, but I didn't learn much about the chip along the way. Hoping to sniff out some patterns...already discovered that I have one bum-ish core that consistently has a higher VID by about .040, while the rest are all within .005 or so...

I dont miss my 5820k, but this 6800k is the epitome of lateral upgrading.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> When you delid a CPU do you apply the thermal paste right on the delidded CPU and put in back that way in the motherboard with no lid?
> 
> I ask because I saw a delidding tool where you replace the thermal paste on a Kaby Lake, then glue the lid back on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/dr-delid-aims-to-make-delidding-your-processor-a-much-easier-task/


you will likely need to use a shim with the block mount to avoid cracking the die, but yes, you can go direct-to-die cooling. Make sure the block is compatible with a LM TIM, otherwise you'll F-it-up.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> Thanks for that. I decided to take it back to basics and spreadsheet everything and run each multi. The RAM will have to wait until later. When I got the new chip I just went straight to 43x and kept cramming voltage until it stabilized...it works, but I didn't learn much about the chip along the way. Hoping to sniff out some patterns...already discovered that I have one bum-ish core that consistently has a higher VID by about .040, while the rest are all within .005 or so...
> 
> I dont miss my 5820k, but this 6800k is the epitome of lateral upgrading.


I agree, only reason to go with BWE over HWE is to get a 10 core, IMO.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you will likely need to use a shim with the block mount to avoid cracking the die, but yes, you can go direct-to-die cooling. Make sure the block is compatible with a LM TIM, otherwise you'll F-it-up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, only reason to go with BWE over HWE is to get a 10 core, IMO.


Given the thread, don't forget the IMC too, I've had 4 CPU here and all were capable of running exceptionally low sub timings! As an investment, I'm in agreement with you - the refresh doesn't warrant an upgrade from Haswell-E unless you require the cores.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I agree, only reason to go with BWE over HWE is to get a 10 core, IMO.


Or if you knock a couple SMDs off in the process of delidding.


----------



## Desolutional

Delidding HEDT.


----------



## madmeatballs

Jpmboy,

I tried putting the CAS on third timings didn't work either but I haven't tried different voltages yet. But here is what I got instead. 3733cl17.





Yea I aimed for 2k% because the last time it had an error at 1k%. I also tried Realbench again but luxmark keeps crashing(nvlddmkm, blackout). It only happens on rb though. Never happened to me while gaming or whatever just in rb lol.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> Jpmboy,
> 
> I tried putting the CAS on third timings didn't work either but I haven't tried different voltages yet. But here is what I got instead. 3733cl17.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea I aimed for 2k% because the last time it had an error at 1k%. I also tried Realbench again but luxmark keeps crashing(nvlddmkm, blackout). It only happens on rb though. Never happened to me while gaming or whatever just in rb lol.


the memtweak pic shows 12 in those fields. you need to put 17 for 3866c17, I'll assume you did that (DL a copy of the Asrock timing configurator for their z270 rigs, and use that for memory timing "snips".







)
... lookin' good for 3733 tho!









The luxmark thing can be a real PIA. YOu can use x264 alone and work your GPU as you like. DL it *HERE*


----------



## madmeatballs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the memtweak pic shows 12 in those fields. you need to put 17 for 3866c17, I'll assume you did that (DL a copy of the Asrock timing configurator for their z270 rigs, and use that for memory timing "snips".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> ... lookin' good for 3733 tho!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The luxmark thing can be a real PIA. YOu can use x264 alone and work your GPU as you like. DL it *HERE*


Yea I already tried "12" on 3866 but I get qcode 55 now although I haven't tried different voltages yet for it tho. Is there anything else that would help stabilize 3866? Anyway thanks!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> Yea I already tried "12" on 3866 but I get qcode 55 now although I haven't tried different voltages yet for it tho. Is there anything else that would help stabilize 3866? Anyway thanks!


Try the Maximus Tweak Modes 1 and 2 if you haven't done so already.


----------



## mus1mus

Am I allowed to submit a 3333 C13 done with a 6600 on Z170 Non-K OC?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Am I allowed to submit a 3333 C13 done with a 6600 on Z170 Non-K OC?


Why wouldn't you be?


----------



## mus1mus

Coz no one did?


----------



## madmeatballs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Try the Maximus Tweak Modes 1 and 2 if you haven't done so already.


I have tried already.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> Yea I already tried "12" on 3866 but I get qcode 55 now although I haven't tried different voltages yet for it tho. Is there anything else that would help stabilize 3866? Anyway thanks!


okay.. we're cross-talking. Did you use 12 or 17 in the four 3rd timings with primary timings of CAS 17??? if you put 12 it will code 55. DO not copy the timings I posted, just enter 17.


----------



## Silent Scone

CAS 12. Yes that would be swell wouldn't it







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Coz no one did?


I think you may still be misinterpreting the concept of the other results table. 3333 speeds on the platform you are talking about aren't an issue, it's simply not a popular bin


----------



## madmeatballs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> okay.. we're cross-talking. Did you use 12 or 17 in the four 3rd timings with primary timings of CAS 17??? if you put 12 it will code 55. DO not copy the timings I posted, just enter 17.


Right now the frequency is at 3733CL17, I did not touch the 3rd timings it just set itself to 12, I got 2000%HCI with this setting.

What I tried with 3866 CL18 was 18 on the four 3rd timings. It still gave me qcode 55 but I did not touch with vccio/vccsa though.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I think you may still be misinterpreting the concept of the other results table. 3333 speeds on the platform you are talking about aren't an issue, it's simply not a popular bin


I know, but a non-K OC with 3333 may be more unpopular I guess.

And non-K OC well, an outdated way. Just made me more curious.

Plus, it's on an entry-level board.


----------



## ducegt

The suspense is killing me. Must be a mind blowing OC!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> I know, but a non-K OC with 3333 may be more unpopular I guess.
> 
> And non-K OC well, an outdated way. Just made me more curious.
> 
> Plus, it's on an entry-level board.


I ran 4000Mhz on a non K 6700, I don't think it makes much of a difference on the memory side.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I ran 4000Mhz on a non K 6700, I don't think it makes much of a difference on the memory side.


That is sweet.

I think it will on a board that supports just 3466 tops?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> That is sweet.
> 
> I think it will on a board that supports just 3466 tops?


Board is still obviously important. The 6700 was still on the Impact.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> Right now the frequency is at 3733CL17, I did not touch the 3rd timings it just set itself to 12, I got 2000%HCI with this setting.
> 
> What I tried with 3866 CL18 was 18 on the four 3rd timings. It still gave me qcode 55 but I did not touch with vccio/vccsa though.


what vdimm for 3866? please post up a snip of the SPD tab from cpuZ.

see this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1620203/kaby-lake-5ghz-milestone/1200_20#post_25829964


----------



## TomcatV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> The suspense is killing me. Must be a mind blowing OC!


This cracked me up ... +R


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 7700k @ 5/ 4.69 -- Asus IX Apex -- 16Gb 4266c19 @ 4220c17-18-18-38 - 1T --1.4v -- VSA 1.24 --VCCIO 1.23 -- HCI 1000%

Voltages from dmm


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 7700k @ 5/ 4.69 -- Asus IX Apex -- 16Gb 4266c19 @ 4220c17-18-18-38 - 1T --1.4v -- VSA 1.24 --VCCIO 1.23 -- HCI 1000%
> 
> Voltages from dmm


That's a great result, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 7700k @ 5/ 4.69 -- Asus IX Apex -- 16Gb 4266c19 @ 4220c17-18-18-38 - 1T --1.4v -- VSA 1.24 --VCCIO 1.23 -- HCI 1000%
> 
> Voltages from dmm


yep, voltages from DMM....? AID64 does not seem to be reading voltages on mine correctly.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> GRABibus -- i75930K @4.6/4.5---3200Mhz-C13-14-13-34-1T----1.4v---SA 0.8v---HCI 8 hours
> 
> Motherboard => ASUS X99-Deluxe II
> Vccin = 1.8V
> 
> http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=17022309411717369814870890.png


Is it planned to put this result in the table ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Added


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected] M9 Apex ---- 4133 16-18-18-38-1T VDIMM 1.45V, VSA 1.275V, IO 1.225V HCi memtest 1536%
G.Skill 4266c19 2x8GB 1.4V ram kit



Oh, btw fellers, you need the latest AID64Beta for the sensors to work correctly with the Apex.


----------



## mus1mus

Dayum! That chip is


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Oh, btw fellers, you need the latest AID64Beta for the sensors to work correctly with the Apex.


Hello

v4089 works fine here also. There are a couple of changes/additions needed for the APEX though. I'll be asking Fiery about this in the next couple of days.


----------



## ducegt

ducegt--i77700K @5.2/5.0---3600Mhz-C14-14-14-32-2T----1.45v---SA 1.20v---HCI 2000+%


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice result







. Now aim for 1T


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Now aim for 1T


1T is only bench stable. It'll error in HCI and GSAT in a few minutes or less. I couldn't get 1T at XMP while over volting.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> 1T is only bench stable. It'll error in HCI and GSAT in a few minutes or less. I couldn't get 1T at XMP while over volting.


Is that a 4-slot board?

anyway, see the highlighted timings below? they seem out of whack 56/57/8/8 or 56/57/6/6 would be more corect. I find that until I get voltages to train these correctly at any ram speed, other timings can be finicky. try lowering tCWL one notch at a time until it fails to post, then increase by one and show a snip of the timings like you did. This can tighten up the RTLs and IOLs.


----------



## spddmn24

Man GSAT is a buzzkill. I wish I knew how easy it was to use with windows 10 built in Linux before I wasted all this time on hci memtest.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Is that a 4-slot board?
> 
> anyway, see the highlighted timings below? they seem out of whack 56/57/8/8 or 56/57/6/6 would be more corect. I find that until I get voltages to train these correctly at any ram speed, other timings can be finicky. try lowering tCWL one notch at a time until it fails to post, then increase by one and show a snip of the timings like you did. This can tighten up the RTLs and IOLs.


Yes it's 4 slots. I'll give that a try this evening. I recall you shared this advice before, but I was too lost juggling all the variables with OCing the CPU. I wonder if this out of whackness might be why I can't post above 3733. Anyway, the timings I used above are not stable with 10mV less so Ill lower tcwl and see if the next few voltage steps effect those RTL and IOLs. Thanks for the tips.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Man GSAT is a buzzkill. I wish I knew how easy it was to use with windows 10 built in Linux before I wasted all this time on hci memtest.


I'm getting the same results on HCI and GSAT with win 10 bash. DDR4 seems to throw errors quickly and if otherwise there is only 1 error a hour, the smallest voltage bump does the trick.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Man GSAT is a buzzkill. I wish I knew how easy it was to use with windows 10 built in Linux before I wasted all this time on hci memtest.


they do things a bit differnt.. HCi in windows works the cache pretty hard too. GSAT basically isolates the ram for the test.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Yes it's 4 slots. I'll give that a try this evening. I recall you shared this advice before, but I was too lost juggling all the variables with OCing the CPU. I wonder if this out of whackness might be why I can't post above 3733. Anyway, the timings I used above are not stable with 10mV less so Ill lower tcwl and see if the next few voltage steps effect those RTL and IOLs. Thanks for the tips.


and check that the two sticks are in the correct channel according to your manual. I would think it should be channel A (or 1) but the brands can do this differently.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Scone, if u want to upload it to the table, take this:



*vmanuelgm--6950x--4.5 cores 3.7 uncore--3400 CL 14-14-14-34-1T--dram voltage 1.385--system agent 1.064v--vccio 1.05v--HCI 400%*


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Added


You made a mistake in the table : my SA is 0.8V (Not 1.08V)


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> and check that the two sticks are in the correct channel according to your manual. I would think it should be channel A (or 1) but the brands can do this differently.


It's A1 with B1 or A2 with B2 for Dual channel. I tried the other slots in the past and it didn't change those values or other concerns.

TCWL 8 was the magic #. The values change a bit every reboot. Increasing the voltage up to 30mV didn't make any difference.


----------



## Jpmboy

got another Kabylake for the table:

jpmboy ---- [email protected] 5.2/4.8 -- Apex -- 3866 16-16-16-40-1T (on a 3600c15 kit) -- 1.425V, SA 1.225V, IO 1.2V. HCI 1000%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> It's A1 with B1 or A2 with B2 for Dual channel. I tried the other slots in the past and it didn't change those values or other concerns.
> 
> TCWL 8 was the magic #. The values change a bit every reboot. Increasing the voltage up to 30mV didn't make any difference.


Well done. tCWL drives the rtls. Youy need ot work ion volttage at this point so that the chBD1 is one unit higher than chAD1 (eg, 54/55). Things might tighten up better if you were using the D0 for CHA and CHB.
Enjoy!









on the M8 Extreme it made a significant difference.. preferring D0


----------



## spddmn24

So I passed an hour of GSAT but I'm getting the 55 qcode error on bootup occasionally. Does that mean it really isn't stable? Pic below of my voltages.


----------



## madmeatballs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> So I passed an hour of GSAT but I'm getting the 55 qcode error on bootup occasionally. Does that mean it really isn't stable? Pic below of my voltages.


Yes, I had a hard time finding stable with the same parts with cpu oc. I have the 7700k and the Hero aswell. I also experienced that, I passed HCI 1200% then when I tried cold booting I got 55 as well. I just settled for 3733 instead. I'm also having problems with Realbench dunno if it has something to do with my gpu or ram. But Luxmark seems to crash. Other benchmarks pass flawlessly even gaming. I'm currently trying to get my hands on the Apex, sadly it isn't available here locally.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> So I passed an hour of GSAT but I'm getting the 55 qcode error on bootup occasionally. Does that mean it really isn't stable? Pic below of my voltages.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hello

That is correct. Full memory stability requires no errors at both the electrical and bit level. If is was possible to boot the system while still failing memory training, Q-Code 55 for example, software memory testing would also fail.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> So I passed an hour of GSAT but I'm getting the 55 qcode error on bootup occasionally. Does that mean it really isn't stable? Pic below of my voltages.


can you post up a snip of the asrock timing configurator and the voltage tab from turboVcore?


----------



## tistou77

I'm looking here
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Scone, if u want to upload it to the table, take this:
> 
> *vmanuelgm--6950x--4.5 cores 3.7 uncore--3400 CL 14-14-14-34-1T--dram voltage 1.385--system agent 1.064v--vccio 1.05v--HCI 400%*


Which G.Skill 3600 kit do you have ?

Thanks


----------



## ducegt

So I realized my board will only do 3866+ in single channel. ASRock documented this with the Z170, but I believe they dropped the ball on the 270. I mostly only care about gaming, but I've got some tendonitis so I'm taking a break...not that being glued to my smart phone is too different. I'll see if I can clock em high enough to make up from the loss of dual channels and maybe I can get 1T stable.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I'm looking here
> Which G.Skill 3600 kit do you have ?
> 
> Thanks


The 3600 CL15, two independent kits of 16GB each.

http://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c15d-16gtz










New stress test:







*[email protected] cores 3.8 uncore--DDR4 [email protected] CL 14-14-14-34-1T--Dram Voltage 1.385v ab/cd--System Agent 1.064v--VCCIO 1.05v--HCI 400%+*


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> The 3600 CL15, two independent kits of 16GB each.
> 
> http://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c15d-16gtz


Thanks


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> can you post up a snip of the asrock timing configurator and the voltage tab from turboVcore?


Only thing I changed from xmp is the voltages and the 2 middle timings to run 18-18-18-39 vs 18-19-19-39. Not sure what safe 24/7 voltages are so I didn't push too hard for 17 or 1t. I bumped sa/io 1 notch in the screenshot vs previous. Ram kit https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3866c18d-16gtzkw


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Only thing I changed from xmp is the voltages and the 2 middle timings to run 18-18-18-39 vs 18-19-19-39. Not sure what safe 24/7 voltages are so I didn't push too hard for 17 or 1t. I bumped sa/io 1 notch in the screenshot vs previous. Ram kit https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3866c18d-16gtzkw


55 means the kit is not training corectlyThese ddr4 kits (samsung ICs) can run 1.45+ voltage without breaking a sweat. I mean, I have several at 1,45V, including a 64GB kit that's been at 1.45V for over a year now.
you can go at this a few ways, one is to work up to 1,45V and see if you get 55s. The other is to set 1.45V on the main vdimm setting, then either in the tweaker or dram menu, find Eventual Dram Voltage and set this to the voltage to run at once trained at the higher voltage .. so, 1.45V with 1.425V eventual.
The rtls and iols look fine, so it's seems to me a little more vdimm should solve it for you.


----------



## unkletom

I had problems too on a Asus Strix board with 3866 RAM. Only fix is raising RAM voltage to 1.5v or use 4 dimms.

Sad part is they advertise with 4133 mhz RAM for the Hero board and one can't even get it to run stable at normal voltages on 3866 mhz.

I will go the competition on next upgrade. Hope it's worth it for Asus saving $1 on this T-topology ram nonsense.

Unfortunately setting CR1 causes instability. There are my settings @ 1.5v:


----------



## ducegt

I couldn't get 3866 to post even in single channel and 1.5v dimms max io and sa. Tried very high timings so hard to believe it's not the Mobo living up to advertised specs. Oh well.


----------



## unkletom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> I couldn't get 3866 to post even in single channel and 1.5v dimms max io and sa. Tried very high timings so hard to believe it's not the Mobo living up to advertised specs. Oh well.


Try 1 stick it will even do 4000 mhz then. Asrock uses same ram specs as Asus need to fill 4 dimms to get high speed.

But who is going to put 4 dimms for dual channel if it had quad ram channel... fair enough.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Try 1 stick it will even do 4000 mhz then. Asrock uses same ram specs as Asus need to fill 4 dimms to get high speed.
> 
> But who is going to put 4 dimms for dual channel if it had quad ram channel... fair enough.


There are always conditions at the top end of the supported frequency range. It is wise to subtract at least 200MHz (DDR4) from the rated frequency for a somewhat easier journey. For a greater chance, 400MHz (DDR4) is better still.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Try 1 stick it will even do 4000 mhz then. Asrock uses same ram specs as Asus need to fill 4 dimms to get high speed.
> 
> *But who is going to put 4 dimms for dual channel* if it had quad ram channel... fair enough.


Equally, much less people will use one DIMM which is the maximum frequency noted by asterisk in Asrock documentation.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Try 1 stick it will even do 4000 mhz then. Asrock uses same ram specs as Asus need to fill 4 dimms to get high speed.
> 
> But who is going to put 4 dimms for dual channel if it had quad ram channel... fair enough.


I have 4 sticks 16GB Kingston 1.2V 2667 RAM in my current PC. But I kinda like how they are cold when they are at 1.2V thus I didn't bothered with OC. (Actually I think they are Hynix MFR, which means they would react poorly to voltage.)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Only thing I changed from xmp is the voltages and the 2 middle timings to run 18-18-18-39 vs 18-19-19-39. Not sure what safe 24/7 voltages are so I didn't push too hard for 17 or 1t. I bumped sa/io 1 notch in the screenshot vs previous. Ram kit https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3866c18d-16gtzkw
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


lastly... see the four timings highlighted in yellow? if you are running C18, try setting these to 18.


----------



## Doug2507

1st post in this thread!

Excuse the black screen, ended up with that and 2 errors whilst opening turbo v/cpu-z/timing.c. Not bothered about being added to the list!

Also on a crap res monitor for a day so trying to fit everything onto the screen is a PITA!

Not been able to get these booting past 3733, i'll need to have a play about later. Super sensitive to volts so might just need a soft touch for higher freq. Either that or this chip's IMC is garbage.

Any suggestions on this profile feel free to fire away or shoot me down!









4266 kit on the way also for a play about with.


----------



## Silent Scone

Ignore


----------



## unkletom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> 1st post in this thread!
> 
> Excuse the black screen, ended up with that and 2 errors whilst opening turbo v/cpu-z/timing.c. Not bothered about being added to the list!
> 
> Also on a crap res monitor for a day so trying to fit everything onto the screen is a PITA!
> 
> Not been able to get these booting past 3733, i'll need to have a play about later. Super sensitive to volts so might just need a soft touch for higher freq. Either that or this chip's IMC is garbage.
> 
> Any suggestions on this profile feel free to fire away or shoot me down!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4266 kit on the way also for a play about with.


Maybe when your new kit arrives you can test 4 dimms and set it to 4000 mhz or something to see if it works good. Your 4266 kit won't get passed 3866 if they are 2x 8GB ram and filling just 2 slots.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1st post in this thread!
> 
> Excuse the black screen, ended up with that and 2 errors whilst opening turbo v/cpu-z/timing.c. Not bothered about being added to the list!
> 
> Also on a crap res monitor for a day so trying to fit everything onto the screen is a PITA!
> 
> Not been able to get these booting past 3733, i'll need to have a play about later. Super sensitive to volts so might just need a soft touch for higher freq. Either that or this chip's IMC is garbage.
> 
> Any suggestions on this profile feel free to fire away or shoot me down!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4266 kit on the way also for a play about with.


Let us know how you get on with the new kit. If you have multiple tools open polling devices, this can tip the balance if the system is not entirely stable


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Maybe when your new kit arrives you can test 4 dimms and set it to 4000 mhz or something to see if it works good. Your 4266 kit won't get passed 3866 if they are 2x 8GB ram and filling just 2 slots.


Hello

This post shows as much knowledge as your other ramblings. The APEX has only 2 memory slots.


----------



## unkletom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> This post shows as much knowledge as your other ramblings. The APEX has only 2 memory slots.


Hello Praz how is the struggle with your autism going?


----------



## Doug2507

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Maybe when your new kit arrives you can test 4 dimms and set it to 4000 mhz or something to see if it works good. Your 4266 kit won't get passed 3866 if they are 2x 8GB ram and filling just 2 slots.


APEX. Shouldn't be an issue and think 4 dim's might be a struggle.


----------



## vmanuelgm

This thread needs a song:


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Hello Praz how is the struggle with your autism going?


LOL. This shows the downside of the worldwide movement of banning animal acts at the circus. All that's left are the clowns.


----------



## Silent Scone

Learning to count to 4 has never been so hostile lol


----------



## ducegt

Lol. Maybe not the best mathematician, but a born RAM sales man.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> LOL. This shows the downside of the worldwide movement of banning animal acts at the circus. All that's left are the clowns.


Aren't they the serial killers?


----------



## TomcatV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Hello Praz how is the struggle with your autism going?
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. This shows the downside of the worldwide movement of banning animal acts at the circus. All that's left are the clowns.
Click to expand...

This cracked me up ... again ... +R









New theme song in 1 ... 2 ... 3 ...


----------



## unkletom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> APEX. Shouldn't be an issue and think 4 dim's might be a struggle.


Oh ok it said in the Apex QVL that it used 4 dimms but leave it to Asus to post the wrong updated pdf.

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-IX-APEX/HelpDesk_QVL/


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> Oh ok it said in the Apex QVL that it used 4 dimms but leave it to Asus to post the wrong updated pdf.
> 
> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-IX-APEX/HelpDesk_QVL/


Hello

The "Z270 ROG Memory QVL" is generic and list nothing APEX specific. The QVL on the same page that is titled for the APEX (Apex DIMM QVL) list 2 DIMMs only. Batting 1000 so far.


----------



## Jpmboy

daaum, I missed the fun!


----------



## SpeedyIV

Ya know I have been seeing more of these little "skirmishes" on this forum lately and I just don't get it. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate and differing opinions. You can read all you want on any Ryzen thread.







I have checked out several overclocking forums and IMHO this one is by far the best place to come and learn, exchange information, advice, and results. Some of the members here are really quite experienced, and are kind enough to share their knowledge and experience with those of us who are learning and trying to get the best performance we can out of our rigs. I have received detailed help and advice from several forum members here. They were kind enough to take the time to read my sometimes rambling posts and offer very helpful advice, BIOS settings, and guidance. They don't have to do that and I really appreciate it when they do.

No one knows it all (though some seem to think they do). There will always be people who know more about whatever you are researching, and people who know less than you. I am by no means an expert on any of this but occasionally I can help someone and when I can, I do. If I don't know, I don't pretend to and if I am confused, I ask for help. Every time I do, someone takes the time to help me. That is what this place is all about. Not cheap swipes and name calling. My 2 cents and now I will shut up.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> Ya know I have been seeing more of these little "skirmishes" on this forum lately and I just don't get it. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate and differing opinions. You can read all you want on any Ryzen thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have checked out several overclocking forums and IMHO this one is by far the best place to come and learn, exchange information, advice, and results. Some of the members here are really quite experienced, and are kind enough to share their knowledge and experience with those of us who are learning and trying to get the best performance we can out of our rigs. I have received detailed help and advice from several forum members here. They were kind enough to take the time to read my sometimes rambling posts and offer very helpful advice, BIOS settings, and guidance. They don't have to do that and I really appreciate it when they do.
> 
> No one knows it all (though some seem to think they do). There will always be people who know more about whatever you are researching, and people who know less than you. I am by no means an expert on any of this but occasionally I can help someone and when I can, I do. If I don't know, I don't pretend to and if I am confused, I ask for help. Every time I do, someone takes the time to help me. That is what this place is all about. Not cheap swipes and name calling. My 2 cents and now I will shut up.


well said... an easy rambling read.









that said.. @Silent Scone you still updating the OP table?


----------



## Doug2507

Any tips for pushing freq? I did try with all on auto and even manually relaxing then to push when I first got themy but was fed up with 55 for an hour. I'll start nudging vdimm upwards and play about with sa/io on the way.

With regards to the 4266 kit, not expecting much. Think Alex had 3 sets and all were potato.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> Any tips for pushing freq? I did try with all on auto and even manually relaxing then to push when I first got themy but was fed up with 55 for an hour. I'll start nudging vdimm upwards and play about with sa/io on the way.
> 
> With regards to the 4266 kit, not expecting much. Think Alex had 3 sets and all were potato.


You're likely limited by your current kit, so you will only get so far. Not sure who Alex is but doubt there was anything much wrong with the kits. 4266 even on the Apex will require a bit of work
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> well said... an easy rambling read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that said.. @Silent Scone you still updating the OP table?


Yes


----------



## Doug2507

AlexRo. That was specifically comparing these rgb kits vs the normal sticks. My 4266 are 2nd round of kits in Europe so maybe fair a bit better. See what happens.

As for the 3600 sticks, doing [email protected], running higher freq should be no issue at all. All fingers point to being picky with volts for higher freq.

Not entirely sure how these work with the rgb but probably safe to assume it has an impact on perf/stability when pushed hard.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> Ya know I have been seeing more of these little "skirmishes" on this forum lately and I just don't get it. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate and differing opinions. You can read all you want on any Ryzen thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have checked out several overclocking forums and IMHO this one is by far the best place to come and learn, exchange information, advice, and results. Some of the members here are really quite experienced, and are kind enough to share their knowledge and experience with those of us who are learning and trying to get the best performance we can out of our rigs. I have received detailed help and advice from several forum members here. They were kind enough to take the time to read my sometimes rambling posts and offer very helpful advice, BIOS settings, and guidance. They don't have to do that and I really appreciate it when they do.
> 
> No one knows it all (though some seem to think they do). There will always be people who know more about whatever you are researching, and people who know less than you. I am by no means an expert on any of this but occasionally I can help someone and when I can, I do. If I don't know, I don't pretend to and if I am confused, I ask for help. Every time I do, someone takes the time to help me. That is what this place is all about. Not cheap swipes and name calling. My 2 cents and now I will shut up.


Agree totally!!!










Scone, just seen u uploaded my 4.5-3.7-3400 (the best is 4.5-3.8) in obscure tab showing 4.4-3.7 and no vccin (it was reflected in aida64 sensor image, 1.92v)...



*[email protected] cores 3.8 uncore--DDR4 [email protected] CL 14-14-14-34-1T--VCCIN 1.92V--Dram Voltage 1.385v ab/cd--System Agent 1.064v--VCCIO 1.05v--HCI 400%+*

Could u please explain why u do think its obscure with those voltages???

Cant see the difference between my shot and B-E 32GB Djgar's ones, for example.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Silent Scone

I've moved all 3400 results for BWE to that table, if it makes you feel like less of a minority. Also you are pushing cache voltage, and the coverage is minimal. Hope that explains it.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've moved all 3400 results for BWE to that table, if it makes you feel like less of a minority. Also you are pushing cache voltage, and the coverage is minimal. Hope that explains it.


Thanks for the explanation.

Can do a 1000 coverage or more, just didnt have patience.

In regards to cache voltage, i thought being under 1.3v was safe, at least one of Asus guys told that... 38x under 1.3v, safe and quite fast!!! For 37x 1.25v. Some 6950x on Asus boards reach 1.25v in cache voltage at stock, so... LOL







These Asus boards are nuts!!!

One last thing, i did 45x cores, 38 uncore, not 44-37... Obscure, but please show the real frequencies...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> AlexRo. That was specifically comparing these rgb kits vs the normal sticks. My 4266 are 2nd round of kits in Europe so maybe fair a bit better. See what happens.
> 
> As for the 3600 sticks, doing [email protected], running higher freq should be no issue at all. All fingers point to being picky with volts for higher freq.
> 
> Not entirely sure how these work with the rgb but probably safe to assume it has an impact on perf/stability when pushed hard.


So far for me, the 4266c19 it is certainly very capable at 4133, and 4266 if the needed bclk is acceptable. If you can find 3600C15 kit - these may be the best sticks (on average) gskill put out this gen. Alex is most likely referring to 4000 and higher c12 capability (1.9V and higher). In that area, the 3600c15 kit I have does better than the 4266c19 kit. that's just the silicon lottery.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> Can do a 1000 coverage or more, just didnt have patience.
> 
> In regards to cache voltage, i thought being under 1.3v was safe, at least one of Asus guys told that... 38x under 1.3v, safe and quite fast!!! For 37x 1.25v. Some 6950x on Asus boards reach 1.25v in cache voltage at stock, so... LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These Asus boards are nuts!!!
> 
> One last thing, i did 45x cores, 38 uncore, not 44-37... Obscure, but please show the real frequencies...


----------



## Silent Scone

I've added the first result you posted. I really can't be bothered to keep up with your minimal coverage iterations and poor English, sorry.


----------



## vmanuelgm

With my poor english, I can only say that you just had to watch my latest shot and description. Nothing else...

When u got time and feel kind, please change 3.7 to 3.8!!!

Love from Spain!!!










Scone's reasoning:










*[email protected] cores 3.8 uncore--DDR4 [email protected] CL 14-14-14-34-1T--VCCIN 1.92V--Dram Voltage 1.385v ab/cd--System Agent 1.064v--VCCIO 1.05v--HCI 400%+*


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> So far for me, the 4266c19 it is certainly very capable at 4133, and 4266 if the needed bclk is acceptable. If you can find 3600C15 kit - these may be the best sticks (on average) gskill put out this gen. Alex is most likely referring to 4000 and higher c12 capability (1.9V and higher). In that area, the 3600c15 kit I have does better than the 4266c19 kit. that's just the silicon lottery.


Yeah my 3600Mhz will do 4266Mhz only with 4133Mhz and 103bclk 19-19-19-44-2T @1.45 1hr gsat. No matter what thou i cant get 1T stable and i have taken it up to 1.5v+.


----------



## Silent Scone

I have some decent sticks coming on Monday, so will try for 4266 during the week. Obviously 4133 makes a lot more sense what with not knocking BCLK out of wack (for the sake of this thread). Some CPU may not even be capable of 1T at those speeds


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah my 3600Mhz will do 4266Mhz only with 4133Mhz and 103bclk 19-19-19-44-2T @1.45 1hr gsat. No matter what thou i cant get 1T stable and i have taken it up to 1.5v+.


I was the first purchasing the 3600 CL15, xD


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> I was the first purchasing the 3600 CL15, xD


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*


I doubt it.


----------



## vmanuelgm

24 may 2016 my purchase from Amazon Spain...



Maybe I am not the first...

Excuse me, Scone, May 24th... xDDD


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> 24 may 2016 my purchase from Amazon Spain...
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I am not the first...
> 
> Excuse me, Scone, May 24th... xDDD


Is all about the first, eh


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Is all about the first, eh


Nope, its funny for me cos I have been using the independent kits on x99 with excellent results, thats it!!!

Did u like the cat joke???


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah my 3600Mhz will do 4266Mhz only with 4133Mhz and 103bclk 19-19-19-44-2T @1.45 1hr gsat. No matter what thou i cant get 1T stable and i have taken it up to 1.5v+.


Same here, on 2 MBs. 4266 1T is bootable (not 100%) but not solid in my hands yet. I do find that 4133 18-18-18-42-1T (or 17-17-17) performs better than 4266 19-19-19-44-2T (at least in aid64 mem bench).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Nope, its funny for me cos I have been using the independent kits on x99 with excellent results, thats it!!!
> 
> Did u like the cat joke???


Very good. Yes it was a real rib tickler


----------



## Jpmboy

some folks just have inflated opinions of themselves. it's that "compensation" syndrone.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> some folks just have inflated opinions of themselves. it's that "compensation" syndrone.


I hate when peeps say I'm conceited, Jpmboy, I mean how can a guy that's perfect be conceited, it's not right.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I hate when peeps say I'm conceited, Jpmboy, I mean how can a guy that's perfect be conceited, it's not right.


lol - that's the compensation loop.


----------



## Jpmboy

So I got a PM asking to post up this info:

4266 XMP (APEX, the mocf is in a box atm)

Changing this to 1T boots fine... but, difficult to get HCI stable, and really lowers AID64 memory bandwidth for write ( and copy)- it's not been an easy "get" with my kit.

These 4266 (not xmp) settings are working much better:



But compared to 4133c17, may not be the improvement you'd think (especially if latency is a goal)


----------



## Praz

Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3600 14-14-14-36-1T -- 1.420V, SA 1.150V, IO 1.150V. HCI 700%

CPU - 1.284V (DMM). Still working out the IO Load Lines and LLC interaction.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3600 14-14-14-36-1T -- 1.420V, SA 1.150V, IO 1.150V. HCI 700%
> CPU - 1.284V (DMM). Still working out the IO Load Lines and LLC interaction.


Nice Praz! That looks to ba a decent cpu too.








At least on this APEX, the load line issue is not apparent with bios 0801.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice Praz! That looks to ba a decent cpu too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least on this APEX, the load line issue is not apparent with bios 0801.


Hello
Thanks. The cache is a bit weak on this CPU. There isn't any issues with the IO Load Line settings. I'm attempting to find settings for those two along with LLC that will allow for an acceptable droop, loaded voltage close to what is set for adaptive with sub-millisecond load/unload response time. My playing with this is the reason for the disparity between the set and actual loaded voltages shown.


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 7700k @ 5/4.48 -- Asus IX Apex -- 4306Mhz - C17-18-18-38 - 1T --1.45v -- VSA 1.25v -- VCCIO 1.225v -- HCI 1100%


----------



## Silent Scone

Some good results for Kaby being posted now, didn't expect to see many or any results at 4300+


----------



## vmanuelgm

*[email protected] cores 3.8 uncore--DDR4 [email protected] CL 14-14-14-34-1T--VCCIN 1.92V--Dram Voltage 1.385v ab/cd--System Agent 1.064v--VCCIO 1.05v--HCI 1200%+*


----------



## Doug2507

Got my 4266's today. Run at spec no issues. Used 32m for initial runs and didn't bsod till down at 1.3v.

Found them a total PITA for booting though. Took half an hour of retry/power off with 49/4F/01 then finally 55 for 1t. Might have been due to high volts (1.5/1.3/1.3) as I'm in win running hci without error at 1.4/1.25/1.25. See what happens on restart....

Interesting kit.

Look forward to seeing where the sweet spot is for daily in regard to freq/timings


----------



## GRABibus

Is Vdimm=1.45V 24/7 on tridentZ 32GB 3200MHz. CL14 a dangerous voltage ?
This is The only way to get 13-13-13-34. 1T HCI stable With SA around 1V.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> Got my 4266's today. Run at spec no issues. Used 32m for initial runs and didn't bsod till down at 1.3v.
> 
> Found them a total PITA for booting though. Took half an hour of retry/power off with 49/4F/01 then finally 55 for 1t. Might have been due to high volts (1.5/1.3/1.3) as I'm in win running hci without error at 1.4/1.25/1.25. See what happens on restart....
> 
> Interesting kit.
> 
> Look forward to seeing where the sweet spot is for daily in regard to freq/timings


1T at those speeds are a real PITA. I tried for a few day's but eventually gave up.









Though im just running the 3600Mhz CL16 kit.


----------



## Doug2507

Seems to have levelled out a bit but still not booting 100%. Totally fine once in though.

Seems to have a hard time sorting rtl's..


----------



## KedarWolf

FINALLY got my Corsair LPX 128GB 3000 kit working at 3200 16-17-17-35 2T. Best I could do before was 2666 12-13-12-27 1T.

Passed one hour of stressapptest in Windows and running 64 instances of HCI MemTest 11 hours while I'm at work for verification purposes for this thread.









Getting 85k read speeds on AIDA64 at these timings.


----------



## Doug2507

Struggling to get D0 to train correctly. Suggestions?

Nvm. Sorted.

Still pot luck for boot though...


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> Struggling to get D0 to train correctly. Suggestions?
> 
> Nvm. Sorted.
> 
> Still pot luck for boot though...


Just set it manually.


----------



## Doug2507

Yeah, sorted them (dropped to cl18, fixed then back to cl17) but the random boot/no boot is amusing. Flip a coin for 2b/55/boot. I'll have a play about with voltages tonight.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> Thanks. The cache is a bit weak on this CPU. There isn't any issues with the IO Load Line settings. I'm attempting to find settings for those two along with LLC that will allow for an acceptable droop, loaded voltage close to what is set for adaptive with sub-millisecond load/unload response time. My playing with this is the reason for the disparity between the set and actual loaded voltages shown.


Ah, okay. Would love to see your response time plots regarding LLC and IA AC/DC findings.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> Yeah, sorted them (dropped to cl18, fixed then back to cl17) but the random boot/no boot is amusing. Flip a coin for 2b/55/boot. I'll have a play about with voltages tonight.


Yeah that can be frustrating. 2b/55 are training... one of the following has resolved this for me on several kits and frequencies: increase VSA, VCCIO, PCH core; set a boot vdimm 25mV higher than eventual VDIMM; return MRC fast boot to Auto (vs Enabled).


----------



## Doug2507

Spot on, I'll test. What range you working with on PCH?

Maybe hidden away but not finding both boot and eventual in 0701.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> Spot on, I'll test. What range you working with on PCH?
> 
> Maybe hidden away but not finding both boot and eventual in 0701.


pch, I've only needed up to 1.08V. under the tweaker menu (I think) you'll see Eventual Dram Voltage. It's in there somewhere.

(you on the Apex?)


----------



## Doug2507

Pch.just the ticket. 4360c17 32m. Tried 4400 for giggles but 1m only. Definitely getting better vfm than the 3600 rgb's purely on time spent play9ng with them!

I'll get down to serious setting/testing tomorrow. You reckon 4133c16 sweet spot for daily?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> Pch.just the ticket. 4360c17 32m. Tried 4400 for giggles but 1m only. Definitely getting better vfm than the 3600 rgb's purely on time spent play9ng with them!
> 
> I'll get down to serious setting/testing tomorrow. You reckon 4133c16 sweet spot for daily?


16-18-18 seems good, but 16-16-16-38-1T 3866 let's you keep VSa <1.25V easy, and it's quick. Check performance with aid64 memory bandwidth test, or Sandra suite ram tests. Pi is single threaded and doesn't move much load around - good for timings, but not general performance imo.


----------



## ducegt

@Doug2507. What PCH voltage did you end up with?

I failed 4, 8+ hour long tests because of TRAW 20 and/or TWCL 8... found a better spot for them.



Shot my AIDA64 scores up more than 1,000 at 36.5 ns.


----------



## Doug2507

1.04v.

Noticed an interesting thing, L2 cache perf increased by 10% through bclk oc clock v clock


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Ah, okay. Would love to see your response time plots regarding LLC and IA AC/DC findings.


Hello

It will be a bit before I get back to this. I received some G.Skill F4-3600C17D-32GTZKW 16GB density memory that I'm going to spend some time with.


----------



## Doug2507

Well, just about to give up on these or go order another board.

Ran 2hrs hci 4300c17 this morning and now can't even get xmp to boothe after changing from 701 to 801. Shoot me now.

EDIT: finally back into win but write/copy are horrendous....timings on xmp with 1t. Restart and back to 55.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> Well, just about to give up on these or go order another board.
> 
> Ran 2hrs hci 4300c17 this morning and now can't even get xmp to boothe after changing from 701 to 801. Shoot me now.
> 
> EDIT: finally back into win but write/copy are horrendous....timings on xmp with 1t. Restart and back to 55.


frankly, your not going to get a bettrer ram board than the APEX. 4300c17 is gonna need 2T to be really close to styable on any MB. And not every CPU is capable of that ram frequency. really better off at 4133 and tighten things up (considerably). 4133c16 is _very_ fast.


----------



## FrostyAMD

Ended up with 2 kaby lake cpu's that do 5.2 after delid so I've done the obvious thing! Purchased 2 motherboards both Asrock (1 Zi70 OCF and 1 z170FATAL1TY Z170 PROFESSIONAL GAMING I7) that are due to be delivered tomorrow. Now need a set of ram and am thinking about these G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-16GTZ. Little pricey for me but I want to overclock them hopefully to 3600mhz and dreamily hopeful to get to 3866mhz. Think it possible??? Any other sugestions as to a better set ???? Will be back for tips once the overclocking starts.

Thank You


----------



## Doug2507

@jpmboy, would if I could mate but even getting 4133c19 to boot os a pita. Even 3866c16 is hit and miss.

Considering also they don't consistently boot at xmp it's making me wonder about the board. I have heard of bad apex specifically with ram.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doug2507*
> 
> @jpmboy, would if I could mate but even getting 4133c19 to boot os a pita. Even 3866c16 is hit and miss.
> 
> Considering also they don't consistently boot at xmp it's making me wonder about the board. I have heard of bad apex specifically with ram.


eh... true, if you can try another sample that would be great. Other than that.... I think you'd need to go back to z170 to find another board that's as capable with ram.


----------



## Praz

Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3600 17-19-19-39-1T -- 1.350V, SA 1.150V, IO 1.00V. GSAT 2 Hours

G.Skill F4-3600C17D-32GTZKW - Timings set by XMP, CR manually set to 1T.


----------



## EyeChoose

double quoted by accident


----------



## EyeChoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3600 17-19-19-39-1T -- 1.350V, SA 1.150V, IO 1.00V. GSAT 2 Hours
> 
> G.Skill F4-3600C17D-32GTZKW - Timings set by XMP, CR manually set to 1T.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3600 17-19-19-39-1T -- 1.350V, SA 1.150V, IO 1.00V. GSAT 2 Hours
> 
> G.Skill F4-3600C17D-32GTZKW - Timings set by XMP, CR manually set to 1T.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


Hi i plan to buy ddr4 trident z 3200mhz a total of 32gb.
is it better to buy 8GB x 4slot or 16 GB x 2slot
both total up 32gb, which is better and faster? i mean i know 16gb x 2 slot is more futureproof for 64gb ram, but i think 32gb ddr4 is going to last for a very long time.
just wondering if using all 4 slots 8GB x 4 will be faster and better? or 16GB x 2?
my specs i7 6700k. z170 hero
sorry im newbie at this







and thanks for your help


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EyeChoose*
> 
> Hi i plan to buy ddr4 trident z 3200mhz a total of 32gb.
> is it better to buy 8GB x 4slot or 16 GB x 2slot
> both total up 32gb, which is better and faster? i mean i know 16gb x 2 slot is more futureproof for 64gb ram, but i think 32gb ddr4 is going to last for a very long time.
> just wondering if using all 4 slots 8GB x 4 will be faster and better? or 16GB x 2?
> my specs i7 6700k. z170 hero
> sorry im newbie at this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and thanks for your help


For the Hero opt for 4x8GB


----------



## pillowsack

Hey Guys,

I was at Pax East last weekend and got myself two kits of 2x8GB of Corsairs Vengeance LED ram. It was $20 off a pack so I figured why not and got two for my x99 set up.

I'm just wondering what you guys think of these latencies. I haven't tried to push down any lower and am hoping for some recommendations. I cannot get it to boot at 3600 or 3800, that is the limitation of my 6800K though im guessing.

Anyways currently I am on a
6800K 4.5ghz and 3.6ghz uncore
ASUS sabertooth x99
and now 4x8GB Corsair 3200 16-18-18-39-2T(i have them running 14-16-16-36-1T).



Are my timings good? Are there any I should push behind the scenes? I haven't tried to go any lower. I'm really hoping I got a good batch since reviewers buy stuff at these conventions too. My friends got to meet Luke from linustechtips this year


----------



## Silent Scone

Are you testing stability with the tests in the OP? If so and passing no issue, you can work on lowering secondary timings. If unsure on what these timings do - the ROG timing guide is also there.


----------



## pillowsack

Well it decided to freeze after playing two rounds of CS:GO. It survived overnight of just sitting idle. I leave my PC on 24/7 so if it's gonna crash it normally does, or windows updates forces the thing to reboot....

I'm on 3200 15-16-16-36-1T now

http://valid.x86.fr/39ngw0


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> Well it decided to freeze after playing two rounds of CS:GO. It survived overnight of just sitting idle. I leave my PC on 24/7 so if it's gonna crash it normally does, or windows updates forces the thing to reboot....
> 
> I'm on 3200 15-16-16-36-1T now
> 
> http://valid.x86.fr/39ngw0


Hello

Strange way of testing memory stability. As @Silent Scone wrote proven methods can be found in the first post of this thread.


----------



## chibi

Hi guys,

For BW-E, what would be your guys' opinion for an optimistic yet aggressive memory OC that's possible with some tweaking? I have parts on hand (see sig rig), but it's not yet assembled for testing purposes. Looking to test for stability in the coming month as my build progresses from parts under the table, to assembled and leak tested.

Assume 3200MHz 14-14-14-32 1T as baseline (1.36V) - should be fairly common and obtainable with 4x 8GB Samsung B-Die

3200MHz - C12-12-12-28 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ is this do-able?
3200MHz - C13-13-13-30 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ this would be the next tier to try if above fails
3400MHz - C13-13-13-30 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ will try this speed and compare
3400MHz - C14-13-13-30 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ will try this speed and compare
Really excited to dial in some clocks, but not enough time in the day to _work, work, work, work, work_, as a certain lady would put it.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> For BW-E, what would be your guys' opinion for an optimistic yet aggressive memory OC that's possible with some tweaking? I have parts on hand (see sig rig), but it's not yet assembled for testing purposes. Looking to test for stability in the coming month as my build progresses from parts under the table, to assembled and leak tested.
> 
> Assume 3200MHz 14-14-14-32 1T as baseline (1.36V) - should be fairly common and obtainable with 4x 8GB Samsung B-Die
> 
> 3200MHz - C12-12-12-28 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ is this do-able?
> 3200MHz - C13-13-13-30 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ this would be the next tier to try if above fails
> 3400MHz - C13-13-13-30 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ will try this speed and compare
> 3400MHz - C14-13-13-30 1T - Up to 1.45V ~ will try this speed and compare
> Really excited to dial in some clocks, but not enough time in the day to _work, work, work, work, work_, as a certain lady would put it.


Hello

Check the charts in the first post of this thread. With a good IMC and memory 3200 13s and 3400 14s should be doable with 1.35 memory voltage and 1.00V or less SA voltage.


----------



## Praz

Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3600 16-16-16-36-1T -- 1.350V, SA 1.20V, IO 1.15V. GSAT 2 Hours/HCI 700%

2 hours GSAT and 14 hours HCI. Tightening up timings only required a bump in SA and IO voltages. Possibly another good kit with similar overclocking headroom as the 3200 C14 and 3600 C15 8GB density kits.


----------



## Formula383

can someone explain what the apex dimm.2 is? just a 3rd memory slot? why not just have 4 slots??


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> can someone explain what the apex dimm.2 is? just a 3rd memory slot? why not just have 4 slots??


It's a DIMM slot designed for the packaged M.2 riser card - so of no relevance to this thread. Read more here https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/whats-the-best-m2-cooling-solution-rog-has-4-new-solutions/
Quote:


> On the Maximus IX Apex, the second solution consists of a daughterboard dubbed DIMM.2 to hold up to two M.2 SSDs which slots into a modified DDR4 slot (please don't insert memory into this decoy slot) wired directly to the PCh, and is situated next to the actually DDR4 memory slots. The DIMM.2 slot is intentionally designed to be reversed to avoid accidental insertion of DDR4 memory.


----------



## EyeChoose

Hi i plan to buy ddr4 trident z 3200mhz a total of 32gb.
is it better to buy 8GB x 4slot or 16 GB x 2slot
both total up 32gb, which is better and faster? i mean i know 16gb x 2 slot is more futureproof for 64gb ram, but i think 32gb ddr4 is going to last for a very long time.
just wondering if using all 4 slots 8GB x 4 will be faster and better? or 16GB x 2?
my specs i7 6700k. z170 hero
sorry im newbie at this frown.gif and thanks for your help


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EyeChoose*
> 
> Hi i plan to buy ddr4 trident z 3200mhz a total of 32gb.
> is it better to buy 8GB x 4slot or 16 GB x 2slot
> both total up 32gb, which is better and faster? i mean i know 16gb x 2 slot is more futureproof for 64gb ram, but i think 32gb ddr4 is going to last for a very long time.
> just wondering if using all 4 slots 8GB x 4 will be faster and better? or 16GB x 2?
> my specs i7 6700k. z170 hero
> sorry im newbie at this frown.gif and thanks for your help


You have asked this in here already, see my previous post. If opting for the Hero 4 DIMM is preferable due to the T-Topology design


----------



## EyeChoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You have asked this in here already, see my previous post. If opting for the Hero 4 DIMM is preferable due to the T-Topology design


thank you sorry i didnt see your previous post my apologies.
may i ask why 8 x 4GB? as in is it going to be faster or better or some sort? yeah i7 7700k with asus z270 hero better with 8gb x 4 rather than 16gb x 2 right?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EyeChoose*
> 
> thank you sorry i didnt see your previous post my apologies.
> may i ask why 8 x 4GB? as in is it going to be faster or better or some sort? yeah i7 7700k with asus z270 hero better with 8gb x 4 rather than 16gb x 2 right?


4 DIMMs on the ASUS board give you a better chance of hitting the validated speeds / stability due to the DRAM topology as already mentioned. 2 DIMM kits can be more tricky to dial in on these boards due to the fact.


----------



## GRABibus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EyeChoose*
> 
> thank you sorry i didnt see your previous post my apologies.
> may i ask why 8 x 4GB? as in is it going to be faster or better or some sort? yeah i7 7700k with asus z270 hero better with 8gb x 4 rather than 16gb x 2 right?


And with 8x4GB, you will get more performances than 8GBx4 due also to "T" topology.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRABibus*
> 
> And with 8x4GB, you will get more performances than 8GBx4 due also to "T" topology.


you guys are crossing platforms.. the basic message is that ROG boards with T-topology work well (better IME) with all slots filled, whether it's a quad channel or dual channel 8 slot or 4 slot board, respectively.


----------



## Silent Scone

I see a reoccurring trend of people not able to count the number of slots on the boards they're speaking about lol


----------



## Formula383

So i have a question about kabylake memory support.

Right now i have 6600k 1.375vcore 4.5ghz 4.5uncore and 4266 gskill kit c19 8GB dimms x2 per kit i have 2 kits.

Single dimm installed i can get 3650mhz 2 dimm installed i can get 3100mhz 4 dimm in stalled 2500mhz. now i believe the memory is pretty good as i can get really aggressive with the timings and all 4 modules work at the same speed and timing on there own.

So the question is should i buy a kabylake now and how would that react to total number of dimms or 32GB of memory. Or should i wait for kabylake-x or skylake-x.

Also how much if any will deliding affect memory speeds?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> So i have a question about kabylake memory support.
> 
> Right now i have 6600k 1.375vcore 4.5ghz 4.5uncore and 4266 gskill kit c19 8GB dimms x2 per kit i have 2 kits.
> 
> Single dimm installed i can get 3650mhz 2 dimm installed i can get 3100mhz 4 dimm in stalled 2500mhz. now i believe the memory is pretty good as i can get really aggressive with the timings and all 4 modules work at the same speed and timing on there own.
> 
> So the question is should i buy a kabylake now and how would that react to total number of dimms or 32GB of memory. Or should i wait for kabylake-x or skylake-x.
> 
> Also how much if any will deliding affect memory speeds?


delidding your cpu is not gonna affect memory speeds unless you damage the IMC.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> So i have a question about kabylake memory support.
> 
> Right now i have 6600k 1.375vcore 4.5ghz 4.5uncore and 4266 gskill kit c19 8GB dimms x2 per kit i have 2 kits.
> 
> Single dimm installed i can get 3650mhz 2 dimm installed i can get 3100mhz 4 dimm in stalled 2500mhz. now i believe the memory is pretty good as i can get really aggressive with the timings and all 4 modules work at the same speed and timing on there own.
> 
> So the question is should i buy a kabylake now and how would that react to total number of dimms or 32GB of memory. Or should i wait for kabylake-x or skylake-x.
> 
> Also how much if any will deliding affect memory speeds?


Hello

To add to what @Jpmboy has already wrote much more than 4000MHz memory speed will be doubtful if combining kits. There's a reason why those modules are not offered as a 4 stick kit. Even at speeds close to 4000MHz 24/7 use is not something that one would likely consider with the amount of associated voltages that would possibly be required.


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> To add to what @Jpmboy has already wrote much more than 4000MHz memory speed will be doubtful if combining kits. There's a reason why those modules are not offered as a 4 stick kit. Even at speeds close to 4000MHz 24/7 use is not something that one would likely consider with the amount of associated voltages that would possibly be required.


Clearly, i do not expect to run them that fast i was just more over curious as to how much better kabylake would be, I have a few skylake chips and they all do about the same for top mhz 3200 is about it. I would like to know how others are able to set records into the 4000mhz range on skylake tho







.


----------



## Formula383

This is what i'm working with right now... so far stable. Still running prime been about 30min i think its good enough for playing games on for now if i have issues with games i'll have to losen things up a bit but sofar its working great. I did try T1 as well but i had to run 15-15-15 and was a bit slower.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Clearly, i do not expect to run them that fast i was just more over curious as to how much better kabylake would be, I have a few skylake chips and they all do about the same for top mhz 3200 is about it. I would like to know how others are able to *set records into the 4000mhz range on skylake tho*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


high voltage (like 1.9V VDIMM) and other voltages that are not close to acceptable for 24/7 use. I have not come across ANY "record setting" ram subs that are anything more than stable to the benchmark run... hence, off topic here.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> This is what i'm working with right now... so far stable. Still running prime been about 30min i think its good enough for playing games on for now if i have issues with games i'll have to losen things up a bit but sofar its working great. I did try T1 as well but i had to run 15-15-15 and was a bit slower.


Did you read the opening post? Using Pi to test memory stability is woefully pointless, regardless


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Did you read the opening post? Using Pi to test memory stability is woefully pointless, regardless


Stop being a dick? k thx. Did you read i said prime aka prime95 its what i use sorry thats not enough to fit in here with you cool kids lol.

edit :here maybe you forget.
first page Overview.
"This thread is dedicated to showing the various memory configurations of users with DDR4 on Z170/Z270 and X99 chipsets.
There is no strict criteria here, all things Z170/X99 memory overclocking welcome. However to enter the stability chart certain criteria is to be met as this is generally speaking dedicated to showing what is obtainable on both platforms at an operational level."


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Stop being a dick? k thx. Did you read i said prime aka prime95 its what i use sorry thats not enough to fit in here with you cool kids lol.


Enjoy having your data corrupted and chips die because you confused constructive advice with malicous criticism... Hammer them screws your way.


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Enjoy having your data corrupted and chips die because you confused constructive advice with malicous criticism... Hammer them screws your way.


how is that advice? he clearly did not read my post and calls me dumb (basically lol) for using pi... how is that constructive criticism? In what way was he being helpful to me? it was rude and had no thought. unless he had meant to say using prime not pi as a stability test. Even at that prime is a good stability test as pointed out in this thread. I can respect him for what he requires to be posted as part of the stability table. How ever i was simply stating what i had achieved at this time because i was excited about it. More over the fact he chose not to help me out with my question but to rather call me out on not reading the start of the thread (witch i had done) at the same time not even reading my post and just looking at the picture and taking the time to reply and say how i'm doing it wrong lol. I dont know about you but ya i felt as tho he was being a bit of a dick. Maybe he was maybe he was not i do not really know. But that is how i took it. So ya. dunno what your on about either.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> This is what i'm working with right now... so far stable. Still running prime been about 30min i think its good enough for playing games on for now if i have issues with games i'll have to losen things up a bit but sofar its working great. I did try T1 as well but i had to run 15-15-15 and was a bit slower.


Daaum.. and I though I had the worst 6600K Intel made. (lol, it may still be)


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Daaum.. and I though I had the worst 6600K Intel made. (lol, it may still be)


I know right lol. I spent some good time trying to loosen timings in the bios to see if anything would help open up some clocks but nothing has helped. So it might just be a bad bios for memory. It is only a 80$ mobo after all lol. And that is fine as its performance per dollar is pretty good.

Just not sure i want a dual channel rig as my main rig so thats why i went cheapo on the mobo because i was board of playing with my SB-E Ivy-e setup for the last 5 years.... Also i have used this same mobo for 3 other systems (4 total) and all hit a wall at around 3000mhz on the memory. So it very well might just be the board.

Any idea's on a good cheaper board that overclocks memory nicely







I almost picked up a asrock formula on newegg for a really good deal until I pressed check out button and the price went up by a hundred dollars LOL I was like ya.... cant do that.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813157649 think this was around 300$ at the time and then i seen it for 170 with 30mir. just bad timing i guess just before i hit buy the price jumped up to 270... with 30mir ofc lol.... i mean common it was IN my cart. jeez.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> how is that advice? he clearly did not read my post and calls me dumb (basically lol) for using pi... how is that constructive criticism? In what way was he being helpful to me? it was rude and had no thought. unless he had meant to say using prime not pi as a stability test. Even at that prime is a good stability test as pointed out in this thread. I can respect him for what he requires to be posted as part of the stability table. How ever i was simply stating what i had achieved at this time because i was excited about it. More over the fact he chose not to help me out with my question but to rather call me out on not reading the start of the thread (witch i had done) at the same time not even reading my post and just looking at the picture and taking the time to reply and say how i'm doing it wrong lol. I dont know about you but ya i felt as tho he was being a bit of a dick. Maybe he was maybe he was not i do not really know. But that is how i took it. So ya. dunno what your on about either.


Anything that points out what you're doing quite altogether wrong is constructive criticism, I then asked if you had read the OP. You only need answer yes or no and explain your intent.

1) You said so far stable, so clearly you're looking for stability. So to ask questions, following the thread OP is entirely aimed at achieving this.

2) You then mention Prime - not sure why you're testing memory stability with this. After all, this is a memory thread - so you'll have to excuse my confusion.

Bottom line and all penises securely kept behind fabric doors, if you were using Pi to test the stability of the memory, you're doing it wrong. So not a great deal to get excited about.


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Anything that points out what you're doing quite altogether wrong is constructive criticism, I then asked if you had read the OP. You only need answer yes or no and explain your intent.
> 
> 1) You said so far stable, so clearly you're looking for stability. So to ask questions, following the thread OP is entirely aimed at achieving this.
> 
> 2) You then mention Prime - not sure why you're testing memory stability with this. After all, this is a memory thread - so you'll have to excuse my confusion.
> 
> Bottom line and all penises securely kept behind fabric doors, if you were using Pi to test the stability of the memory, you're doing it wrong. So not a great deal to get excited about.


Agreed! and you are fully excused! and you are very much correct if i was using Pi to do a stability test it would have been very much wrong indeed lol.

I use prime95 because its what i have always used so its simple to me and already on my hardrive








And for me prime has done a fairly good job of showing memory weakness. I guess i just feel familiar with it and so that makes it "safe" to use for me. Reguardless if it is or is not its how i feel....

I also took the time to pick up the memtest you like to use i did a short test of 250% with out errors. So probably stable enough for what i use it for. time will tell! (i have never liked to stress my cpu full load for hours and hours to see if it will fail as its not really how i use my pc so its just not something i think needs to be done. I would much rather play a game to warm up the system for a few hours and then start a stress test either while i play a game or just after it has been heat soaked as the gpu will provide a much warmer case than just doing a cpu stress test would do.)

But you must understand i really do not think what i have here is note worthy of being a good example of what a system can do with memory speeds i just thought the memory it self was pretty good quality to be able to run such what i would consider good timings. And do you think motherboards play a large roll in how well the memory will overclock or is it just up to the IMC on the CPU it self mostly?

And perhaps posting a Pi screen shot in this thread not the best of ideas as its a performance benchmark and that is not the point of this thread (and by me doing so i think i was looking to compare with others super Pi scores) so my apologies for that as well.


----------



## Formula383

Formula383--i56600K @4.725/4.5---3038Mhz-C12-13-13-33-2T----dram1.408v---SA 1.08v---IO 1.032v--HCI 250%


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Check the charts in the first post of this thread. With a good IMC and memory 3200 13s and 3400 14s should be doable with 1.35 memory voltage and 1.00V or less SA voltage.


With 1.00V or less SA voltage? Is too much SA voltage bad?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> Formula383--i56600K @4.725/4.5---3038Mhz-C12-13-13-33-2T----dram1.408v---SA 1.08v---IO 1.032v--HCI 250%


Nice, however minimal coverage is 400% for capacities of 16GB and under.


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice, however minimal coverage is 400% for capacities of 16GB and under.


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i missred that i was thinking 200% for 16 and above -.- oh well its fine i dont need to be in the results just wanted to show that its pretty stable. Maybe i go back and do it again idk...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i missred that i was thinking 200% for 16 and above -.- oh well its fine i dont need to be in the results just wanted to show that its pretty stable. Maybe i go back and do it again idk...


No worries, that much coverage doesn't take too long anyway.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> With 1.00V or less SA voltage? Is too much SA voltage bad?


Hello

An excessive amount can be harmful to the CPU. Before that point is reached though too much SA voltage can be as detrimental to stability as too little voltage.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> An excessive amount can be harmful to the CPU. Before that point is reached though too much SA voltage can be as detrimental to stability as too little voltage.


Hmm, didn't know that. May be why I'm having issue achieving stability. Thanks!


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> Hmm, didn't know that. May be why I'm having issue achieving stability. Thanks!


Hello

You're welcome.


----------



## FrostyAMD

Can someone give me correct step by step procedure to get XMP working on Asrock z170 OC Formula MB ???


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrostyAMD*
> 
> Can someone give me correct step by step procedure to get XMP working on Asrock z170 OC Formula MB ???


What's the XMP settings? What kit? Are you able to boot with manuals efforts?


----------



## FrostyAMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> What's the XMP settings? What kit? Are you able to boot with manuals efforts?


G.skill f4-3400c16D-16GTZ
I had them running in dual channel earlier but had to go pay some RE taxes and lost my train of thought (about Computer) and inadvertly changed something and poof dual channel xmp was gone.
I know whrn I first got them right I started with one stick with mrc fastboot disabled.
Just a for a manual boot I can do that with setting of 2400


----------



## Kutalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formula383*
> 
> I use prime95 because its what i have always used so its simple to me and already on my hardrive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for me prime has done a fairly good job of showing memory weakness. I guess i just feel familiar with it and so that makes it "safe" to use for me. Reguardless if it is or is not its how i feel....


I also feel like earth is flat, no matter if true or not thats how i feel.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrostyAMD*
> 
> G.skill f4-3400c16D-16GTZ
> I had them running in dual channel earlier but had to go pay some RE taxes and lost my train of thought (about Computer) and inadvertly changed something and poof dual channel xmp was gone.
> I know whrn I first got them right I started with one stick with mrc fastboot disabled.
> Just a for a manual boot I can do that with setting of 2400


keep mrc fast boot disabled when using XMP on that MB until the kit is trained properly. And check that for that specific kit on the MB's QVL list.


----------



## FrostyAMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> keep mrc fast boot disabled when using XMP on that MB until the kit is trained properly. And check that for that specific kit on the MB's QVL list.


Kit is on the list. checked that !
Anything else needs to be disabed ? i.e. speedstep or c-states
Have fired up stick s3-5 times no xmp yet approx. how many times should it take from cold boot to training is complete


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrostyAMD*
> 
> G.skill f4-3400c16D-16GTZ
> I had them running in dual channel earlier but had to go pay some RE taxes and lost my train of thought (about Computer) and inadvertly changed something and poof dual channel xmp was gone.
> I know whrn I first got them right I started with one stick with mrc fastboot disabled.
> Just a for a manual boot I can do that with setting of 2400


hello frostyAMD. I would like to add with my asrock z170 board after a non successful boot i must enter the bios set known good settings save and exit, then the board will fail to post i must then enter bios again do not change anything save and exit again and vola! it posts perfectly...

You might probably already know about this but figured worth a shot maybe i know something for once


----------



## Formula383

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> keep mrc fast boot disabled when using XMP on that MB until the kit is trained properly. And check that for that specific kit on the MB's QVL list.


what do you mean trained properly???


----------



## EyeChoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> All CPU benefit, yes. The DRAM topology layout refers to the trace length and design on all ASUS Z170/2Z70 4 DIMM boards.
> 
> 8x4GB, again, this would be a huge accomplishment on the Hero lol


thank you so much for your time and effort explaining Rep+
have a nice day


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrostyAMD*
> 
> Asrock Z170 OC Formula. Also my last question is should the new voltages for the for VCCIO 1.215 And VCCSA 1.36.8 concern me ???


just set them manually. 1.2 and 1.25 should be plenty. (and more VCCSA is not always better)


----------



## Praz

Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3866 17-17-17-36-1T -- 1.350V, SA 1.2125V, IO 1.15V. GSAT 2 Hours/HCI 700%

Hello

Same primaries and voltages as 3733MHz. tRAS and a couple of the secondaries needed loosened up to maintain the same voltages.


----------



## Nameless101

Hello everyone,
Been trying my hand at overclocking my memory for the first time. After some trials I was able to push my 2400MHz Avexir 16GB (4x4) kit to 2666MHz with some (as far as I can tell) decent timings. The following screenshots have some more details. Do you reckon I'm good to go in terms of stability? I tried running 13-13-13-33 timings also, but that got me 1 error after about 200% coverage, so I loosened the timings to what you can see in the screenshots. Cheers!

Nameless101 ---- 5820k @ 4.4/4.0 -- Asus X99M-WS -- 2666 14-14-14-34-1T -- 1.35V, SA 1.00V -- HCI 600%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Praz ---- [email protected] 5.0/4.6 -- Asus APEX -- 3733 17-17-17-36-1T -- 1.350V, SA 1.2125V, IO 1.15V. GSAT 2 Hours/HCI 700%
> 
> Hello
> 
> Same primaries and voltages as 3733MHz. tRAS and a couple of the secondaries needed loosened up to maintain the same voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


oh.. that is a good hi-density kit!


----------



## bfedorov11

What would be a max safe voltage for watercooled b die for daily usage? I am having trouble getting a set of F4-3600C15D-16GTZ to run cl14 3600 on a gene viii with ~1.45v.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nameless101*
> 
> Hello everyone,
> Been trying my hand at overclocking my memory for the first time. After some trials I was able to push my 2400MHz Avexir 16GB (4x4) kit to 2666MHz with some (as far as I can tell) decent timings. The following screenshots have some more details. Do you reckon I'm good to go in terms of stability? I tried running 13-13-13-33 timings also, but that got me 1 error after about 200% coverage, so I loosened the timings to what you can see in the screenshots. Cheers!
> 
> Nameless101 ---- 5820k @ 4.4/4.0 -- Asus X99M-WS -- 2666 14-14-14-34-1T -- 1.35V, SA 1.00V -- HCI 600%


Straight 13s likely needs more voltage on that kit, I'd be happy with that, though. Maybe work on seconds.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bfedorov11*
> 
> What would be a max safe voltage for watercooled b die for daily usage? I am having trouble getting a set of F4-3600C15D-16GTZ to run cl14 3600 on a gene viii with ~1.45v.


Max ambient voltage stick to under 1.5v for daily use


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bfedorov11*
> 
> What would be a max safe voltage for watercooled b die for daily usage? I am having trouble getting a set of F4-3600C15D-16GTZ to run cl14 3600 on a gene viii with ~1.45v.


cl14 requires other timings be adjusted and may not be possible. Best to run them at 3866 c16 or c17. should need only 1.45 boot and 1.425 eventual VDIMM.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bfedorov11*
> 
> What would be a max safe voltage for watercooled b die for daily usage? I am having trouble getting a set of F4-3600C15D-16GTZ to run cl14 3600 on a gene viii with ~1.45v.


I got them working @ 1.45V. Try these timings out.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/4040#post_25924363


----------



## Praz

Hello
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> I got them working @ 1.45V. Try these timings out.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/4040#post_25924363


Hello

1.45V should be more than enough voltage for G.Skill 3600C15D at 14-14-14 with 2T. Mine needed less voltage than that with 1T.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> oh.. that is a good hi-density kit!


Hello

It's hard to know how much of this is due to the memory or the APEX.


----------



## Nameless101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Straight 13s likely needs more voltage on that kit, I'd be happy with that, though. Maybe work on seconds.


Thanks for the feedback! I think I'll roll with these for now then.


----------



## tknight

This is a Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 - 32GB (2 x16GB ) - 2666mhz Kit, that I bought when Skylake first came out in late 2015. It is B-Die and I thought I would try it out on my MOCF, as the last time I had used it was on 4 DIMM Z170 Boards and the most I could overclock it to was 3200mhz at 2T and that was a mission back then.

The MOCF however overclocks it to 3600mhz C16-1T with no problems whatsoever, with only 1.2 volts of IO and SA, and 1.35 volts of DRAM.
Considering it is a 2666mhz kit, that is both a testament to the MOCF and B-DIe itself. Will run some HCI Mem stability tests, once I tune in the timings a bit more, but the following timings are what the board generated when I only set the primaries to 16-16-16-35-1T.



Just as a test I tried 3600mhz C12 and it booted up no problem and passed Cinebench - 1.2 volts IO and SA - 1.75 volts DRAM.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> This is a Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 - 32GB (2 x16GB ) - 2666mhz Kit, that I bought when Skylake first came out in late 2015. It is B-Die and I thought I would try it out on my MOCF, as the last time I had used it was on 4 DIMM Z170 Boards and the most I could overclock it to was 3200mhz at 2T and that was a mission back then.
> 
> The MOCF however overclocks it to 3600mhz C16-1T with no problems whatsoever, with only 1.2 volts of IO and SA, and 1.35 volts of DRAM.
> Considering it is a 2666mhz kit, that is both a testament to the MOCF and B-DIe itself. Will run some HCI Mem stability tests, once I tune in the timings a bit more, but the following timings are what the board generated when I only set the primaries to 16-16-16-35-1T.
> 
> 
> 
> Just as a test I tried 3600mhz C12 and it booted up no problem and passed Cinebench - 1.2 volts IO and SA - 1.75 volts DRAM.


Could be due to a number of improvements since then, but it's not surprising swapping to a 2 DIMM board with two modules. Did you ever get 4133/4266 going?


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 7700k @ 5/4.5 -- Asus IX Apex -- 4137Mhz - C17-17-17-38 -1T --1.35v -- VSA 1.15v -- VCCIO 1.125v -- HCI 1000%
G.Skill TridentZ 4266C19 kit. 1.4v.

Have tried going for a higher speeds but this time decided to go with 100.1 base clock and try to drop the volts down a bit.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 7700k @ 5/4.5 -- Asus IX Apex -- 4137Mhz - C17-17-17-38 -1T --1.35v -- VSA 1.15v -- VCCIO 1.125v -- HCI 1000%
> G.Skill TridentZ 4266C19 kit. 1.4v.
> 
> Have tried going for a higher speeds but this time decided to go with 100.1 base clock and try to drop the volts down a bit.


really nice settings... i have to work on lowering voltages. But every time I do run vdimm, vccio and vsa down that low I eventually end up with training failures or funky RTLs after days and many restarts... with mrc fast boot disabled. IDK, could be that this 4266c19 kit is just a weak sample.


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy -- 7700K 5.2/4.8 ---- 3866 16-16-16-38-1T, Vdimm 1.425V (bios,) VSA 1.15V, VCCIO 1.125V, Kit: 4266c19 2x8GB 550%


----------



## eminded1

after new bios update for my ix hero z270, im now able to boot into windows with XMP enabled. it is stable but the VCCIO is at 1.3 same with VCCSA 1.3. that seems pretty high for me thats what XMP set it to, so i lowered to 1.2 for the VCCIO and iv been testing with prime 95 large fft and blend and it seems stable. Is VCCSA and VCCIO of 1.3 too high for 24/7 usage? those are the default XMP voltage settings and the temps are fine. voltage is 1.35. BTW im running 32GB 4x8GB 4000mhz GSKILL F4-4000C19D-16GTZ at 19 21 21 42, before bios update i was running 4000 at 17 20 20 40 at 1.43 VDIMM and i was stable, VCCIO was at 1.28 and VCCSA at 1.27. but the XMP upes the CPU PLL from default 1.0 to 1.25 and the CPU Standby Voltage to 1.25 and the DMI to 1.31. so many voltages getts confuseing sometimes. i think ill just work on one voltage at a time to see what the lowest voltage i can get and keep it stable. just dont want my IMC on the cpu to burn out using 1.3 VCCIO. but i lowered it to 1.2 and it seems stable. ill post back.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eminded1*
> 
> after new bios update for my ix hero z270, im now able to boot into windows with XMP enabled. it is stable but the VCCIO is at 1.3 same with VCCSA 1.3. that seems pretty high for me thats what XMP set it to, so i lowered to 1.2 for the VCCIO and iv been testing with prime 95 large fft and blend and it seems stable. Is VCCSA and VCCIO of 1.3 too high for 24/7 usage? those are the default XMP voltage settings and the temps are fine. voltage is 1.35. BTW im running 32GB 4x8GB 4000mhz GSKILL F4-4000C19D-16GTZ at 19 21 21 42, before bios update i was running 4000 at 17 20 20 40 at 1.43 VDIMM and i was stable, VCCIO was at 1.28 and VCCSA at 1.27. but the XMP upes the CPU PLL from default 1.0 to 1.25 and the CPU Standby Voltage to 1.25 and the DMI to 1.31. so many voltages getts confuseing sometimes. i think ill just work on one voltage at a time to see what the lowest voltage i can get and keep it stable. just dont want my IMC on the cpu to burn out using 1.3 VCCIO. but i lowered it to 1.2 and it seems stable. ill post back.


Those auto values scale with frequency. If they're higher than what you are comfortable with, you can lower them and retest memory stability with the tests outlaid in the OP. Some CPU may be fine with VCCSA/IO at 1.20v with those frequencies, some will need more. Hence the values seen in auto.


----------



## bfedorov11

I was just doing some quick benches to figure out what speed and timings to shoot for... this stuck on the first go..

4000 17-17-17-37-2T -- 1.452V, SA 1.25V, IO 1.1875V


It will bench at 4133, but write performance takes a dive. Hopefully 1T is possible.


----------



## bfedorov11

bfedorov11 -- 7700K 5.0/4.5 -- 3866 15-16-16-35-1t, 1.4586v, VSA 1.25v, VCCIO 1.2v, HCI 400%


Seems like 3866 is the best performer. Need to work on voltages now.


----------



## Windeh

Windeh -- i7 7700K @5.0/4.7---4265Mhz-C18-19-19-39-2T----1.41v (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.30 --- SA 1.35v---HCI 1300%

G.Skill Trident-Z RGB F4-4266C19D-16GTZR
Asus Maximus Apex




Could only reach 4200+ by upping the BCLK...


----------



## Silent Scone

Some great configs being posted









Will add over the weekend


----------



## bfedorov11

What does it mean when write speeds tank? Can voltage solve that problem or is it a limit of the ram and/or IMC?


----------



## Desolutional

What's the minimum time recommended in GSAT for a 64GB set of (16GB x 4) modules to go on the spreadsheet?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> What's the minimum time recommended in GSAT for a 64GB set of (16GB x 4) modules to go on the spreadsheet?


Hello

The first post states 1 hour minimum. As GSAT uses all available memory when testing the amount of installed RAM should be irrelevant to the length of time. I do 2 hours minimum myself.


----------



## Silent Scone

Yep, as above no less than 1 hour. No reason not to do at least that long with this test.


----------



## Desolutional

Desolutional
i7-5820K @ 4.3/3.9

2666 MHz
C12-12-11-28-1T
1.40V

SA 1.03V
VCCIO 1.15V <--- this does make a difference for my IMC, stock is 1.05V, doesn't seem to scale above 1.15V.
VCCIN 1.78V

Stressapptest 1 Hour




Yes, I have a bad IMC.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bfedorov11*
> 
> What does it mean when write speeds tank? Can voltage solve that problem or is it a limit of the ram and/or IMC?


best to ask Raja, but IME, it's a timing clash of some sort. t


----------



## Vinnce

Hello,

My computer is stable at 4.8GHz on air but when I run prime95 some of the tests will fail with some errors such as "rounding was 0.5 less than 0.4 and hardware failure detected"

Does this means I should change something or will I be fine for regular programming/gaming using these settings ?

Will this cause games to crash or that's fine ? The computer doesn't BSOD or anything, it just does that error in prime95, AIDA64 stress test works just fine :


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vinnce*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> My computer is stable at 4.8GHz on air but when I run prime95 some of the tests will fail with some errors such as "rounding was 0.5 less than 0.4 and hardware failure detected"
> 
> Does this means I should change something or will I be fine for regular programming/gaming using these settings ?
> 
> Will this cause games to crash or that's fine ? The computer doesn't BSOD or anything, it just does that error in prime95, AIDA64 stress test works just fine :


2 to 4 hours of Realbench is telling enough for most workloads. I don't run Prime on any of my BWE CPU.


----------



## navjack27

sometimes i'm getting one stick not showing up on boot. its always the same one i think

i'll edit this post and set ram to auto everything and see if that clears it up
also more info

EDIT: yeah stock sees all my sticks correctly. i'll just leave auto and then up the speed itself until i need to up something else.

DDR4 2666 8GB Corsair CMK32GX4M4A2666C15 DS 4pcs v

it still happens intermittently. :-\

EDIT AGAIN. thats neat. i set my RAM to 3200 and it BOOTS... with 8gb of active ram. dunno if i'd rather have it boot loop then do that tho

EDIT LAST: and i'm done. no overclock possible with my ram. 2800 is where i stay.


----------



## Desolutional

What DRAM voltage are you testing with at 3200MHz? Also have you tried to change VCCSA and see if boot behaviour improves, VCCSA can be weird on X99, you've just got to play around with it until you hit POST failure or you get more sticks passing. More is not always better with VCCSA.


----------



## PowerK

Hi guys.

I downloaded Snoopy Linux and made a bootable USB stick with it. Installed stressapp test. Runs good.
However, I noticed that when GSAT starts, it seems to only recognize 8 cores even though the CPU used is 6950X deca-core CPU.
See the picture below.


Is there anything I need to adjust in Snoopy Linux so that GSAT recognizes all 10-core (20-thread) ?

EDIT: I meant Puppy Linux. (Not Snoopy)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> I downloaded Snoopy Linux and made a bootable USB stick with it. Installed stressapp test. Runs good.
> However, I noticed that when GSAT starts, it seems to only recognize 8 cores even though the CPU used is 6950X deca-core CPU.
> See the picture below.
> 
> 
> Is there anything I need to adjust in Snoopy Linux so that GSAT recognizes all 10-core (20-thread) ?
> 
> EDIT: I meant Puppy Linux. (Not Snoopy)


Not sure, I would try asking on github.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> I downloaded Snoopy Linux and made a bootable USB stick with it. Installed stressapp test. Runs good.
> However, I noticed that when GSAT starts, it seems to only recognize 8 cores even though the CPU used is 6950X deca-core CPU.
> See the picture below.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything I need to adjust in Snoopy Linux so that GSAT recognizes all 10-core (20-thread) ?
> 
> EDIT: I meant Puppy Linux. (Not Snoopy)


Didn't think Charlie Brown was an overclocker. OTOH, Snoopy IS a puppy


----------



## Kimir

You can manually set the number of thread using -m argument, why does it not detect properly, that I don't know. Maybe the microcode on the puppy linux is not up to date.
https://github.com/stressapptest/stressapptest


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> You can manually set the number of thread using -m argument, why does it not detect properly, that I don't know. Maybe the microcode on the puppy linux is not up to date.
> https://github.com/stressapptest/stressapptest


Manually setting the number of threads by -m argument does not work, unfortunately. GSAT still utilizes 8 cores/threads only.
I think this is due to Puppy Linux.
Shame I cant boot with Mint Linux. I managed to boot with Mint Linux + 2x Titan XP SLI successfully last summer but I just can't remember how I did that.


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Didn't think Charlie Brown was an overclocker. OTOH, Snoopy IS a puppy


Indeed. :-D


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Manually setting the number of threads by -m argument does not work, unfortunately. GSAT still utilizes 8 cores/threads only.
> I think this is due to Puppy Linux.
> Shame I cant boot with Mint Linux. I managed to boot with Mint Linux + 2x Titan XP SLI successfully last summer but I just can't remember how I did that.


For Linux Mint.

On the GRUB environment "Black DOS style screen where you select to Boot Linux or OEM Install"
Press "e"
Remove "quiet splash", replace with "nomodeset"
Then press "Ctrl + X" combo to boot.

Used to have to do that before the nVidia nouveau drivers got updated to work with mixed GPU setups. Some SLI setups don't play nicely with nouveau too, hence the need to use "nomodeset".

Likewise, Install Linux Mint following the above procedure, then on the first boot of HDD installed Linux Mint, do the same procedure, install the proprietary nVidia drivers, then you should be fine to boot without setting "nomodeset".


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> For Linux Mint.
> 
> On the GRUB environment "Black DOS style screen where you select to Boot Linux or OEM Install"
> Press "e"
> Remove "quiet splash", replace with "nomodeset"
> Then press "Ctrl + X" combo to boot.
> 
> Used to have to do that before the nVidia nouveau drivers got updated to work with mixed GPU setups. Some SLI setups don't play nicely with nouveau too, hence the need to use "nomodeset".
> 
> Likewise, Install Linux Mint following the above procedure, then on the first boot of HDD installed Linux Mint, do the same procedure, install the proprietary nVidia drivers, then you should be fine to boot without setting "nomodeset".


Hi Desolutional,
Thank you! That works with my TitanXP SLI.
GSAT now sees 10-core (20-thread). Puppy Linux sucks.


----------



## arrow0309

I'm also planning to install Linux Mint to a new partition on the secondary ssd drive (free space of an MX300 750Gb).
Do I have to burn a DVD only (Live DVD) or I can create a usb flash drive as well?
What to use then, Cinnamon 64 bit?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> For Linux Mint.
> 
> On the GRUB environment "Black DOS style screen where you select to Boot Linux or OEM Install"
> Press "e"
> Remove "quiet splash", replace with "nomodeset"
> Then press "Ctrl + X" combo to boot.
> 
> Used to have to do that before the nVidia nouveau drivers got updated to work with mixed GPU setups. Some SLI setups don't play nicely with nouveau too, hence the need to use "nomodeset".
> 
> Likewise, Install Linux Mint following the above procedure, then on the first boot of HDD installed Linux Mint, do the same procedure, install the proprietary nVidia drivers, then you should be fine to boot without setting "nomodeset".


you linux/unix guys give me a tingle up my leg (quoting Chris Matthews).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you linux/unix guys give me a tingle up my leg (quoting Chris Matthews).


And also a common reminder of why it's a far cry from a go-to platform for gamers


----------



## arrow0309

I continue not to understand a lot (pretty much new to Linux / Unix) and / or don't have plenty of time to dedicate








Is this guide still ok for our purpose?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.tecmint.com/install-linux-mint-18-alongside-windows-10-or-8-in-dual-boot-uefi-mode/amp/


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I continue not to understand a lot (pretty much new to Linux / Unix) and / or don't have plenty of time to dedicate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this guide still ok for our purpose?
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.tecmint.com/install-linux-mint-18-alongside-windows-10-or-8-in-dual-boot-uefi-mode/amp/


you can dual boot the system, but a spare drive of any kind is cleaner. Then.. there's puppy linux which runs beautifully off a USB stick and is portable between rigs.


----------



## FedericoUY

Hi all.
I have some questions regarding b-dies kits.
For 3600 cl15 flat timings, what vram, vccio and sa are you setting?
Past 4000, what vccio and vram?
Can you set 1T?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you can dual boot the system, but a spare drive of any kind is cleaner. Then.. there's puppy linux which runs beautifully off a USB stick and is portable between rigs.


Hi, thanks for replying
OK, I will try with the puppy Linux then, will an USB 3.0 (16gb) pendrive improve any overall (os) speed or a 4gb 2.0 older one will do the same?
I also have a ready pendrive with one of the latest Parted Magic (that I use fore some secure erase once in a while) would this one work with the Gsat app as well?


----------



## wholeeo

My system now completely refuses to boot into Linuxmint off of a usb drive. No idea why.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you can dual boot the system, but a spare drive of any kind is cleaner. Then.. there's puppy linux which runs beautifully off a USB stick and is portable between rigs.


I've set up an SSD drive (not my working one) for all my stress testing. What I did is I installed Win 10 in it but left ~12GB unused space. I then installed Mint on it and it triple boots from the Linux boot. The only weird thing is because my normal boot SSD is an NVMe drive (the Win/Linux is SATA) I have to tell it to boot the Win/Linux SATA from what it labels the NVMe drive, go figure.


----------



## Jpmboy

Yeah, I use the puppy linux boot USB since it allows one install to be used for stressapptest across several platforms/rigs. Just too easy this way. I had a linux Mint SSD, and I really like MInt







so much so I've installed it on a few old laptops that now have a second life that W10 would not allow. For my needs, PL works the best, but if you are using only one rig, a full install of Mint can;t be beat - AND it is a damn good OS.


----------



## arrow0309

I've just created a 4gb pendrive with the iso of Puppy Linux Tahr x64 on it (thru UNebootin) but I just can't boot from this drive.
I've never have (recently) an Asus board in Uefi so maybe I miss something?
The F10-F12 keys don't seem to function either


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I've just created a 4gb pendrive with the iso of Puppy Linux Tahr x64 on it (thru UNebootin) but I just can't boot from this drive.
> I've never have (recently) an Asus board in Uefi so maybe I miss something?
> The F10-F12 keys don't seem to function either


The puppy linux here the only one that worked for myself and follow the instructions as well to get it working right.

Easiest way to test memory in Linux.

Download this Puppy Linux ISO.

http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/tahr64-6.0.5.iso

Make USB With Rufus 'MBR for CSM/UEFI' option. https://rufus.akeo.ie/

Enable CSM and Fastboot in BIOS boot from USB NOT using the UEFI option in BIOS, search stressapptest in Puppy Package Manager, install it, profit!! Also in Puppy Package Manager install Gnome Terminal as the one comes with Puppy you cannot copy and paste commands into it easily. In the Puppy Package Manager be sure to update the repos in the wrench/screwdriver icon as well to find all the apps I mention. I installed the Gnome Screenshot app as well.









Don't even need to install to hard disk, it runs from the USB. When you reboot choose the Save file option to the USB Puppy is on or if you boot into it again you'll need to reinstall stressapptest and gnome terminal again.

It also works with Titan X's and other NVidia cards that people with Linux Mint have trouble installing the O/S.









Once installed open "Terminal" and copy/paste the following: stressapptest -W -s 3600
This will run the stressapp for one hour. The test will log any errors as it runs.


----------



## Desolutional

Worth noting that mashing F8 at POST will let you manually select boot devices instead of having to rearrange boot order.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Worth noting that mashing F8 at POST will let you manually select boot devices instead of having to rearrange boot order.


unless you want to activate F8 _boot to safemode/options menu_: bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu yes

if you mess with msconfig in Win10, this may save you a reinstall.


----------



## arrow0309

Yeah, thanks guys, I've found the F8 (Asus) boot key but the bloody Puppy 6.06 uefi didn't ever manage to finish booting
This one (6.05) works fine, one question, it'll work from the ram? Every time? I won't have to install it (to this usb pendrive or another one)?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Yeah, thanks guys, I've found the F8 (Asus) boot key but the bloody Puppy 6.06 uefi didn't ever manage to finish booting
> This one (6.05) works fine, one question, it'll work from the ram? Every time? I won't have to install it (to this usb pendrive or another one)?


the stick is portable, the OS load is volitile, so it will not persist once you restart.


----------



## arrow0309

Thanks guys, everything's working just fine!
One last question, just in case I wanna install it (the Linux) could I use this very same pendrive?

Edit:
No, it doesn't work, I need another USB drive.
Non sure if is necessary (better) than this live USB (maybe to have everything ready and saved, video drivers included).


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Yeah, thanks guys, I've found the F8 (Asus) boot key but the bloody Puppy 6.06 uefi didn't ever manage to finish booting
> This one (6.05) works fine, one question, it'll work from the ram? Every time? I won't have to install it (to this usb pendrive or another one)?
> 
> 
> 
> the stick is portable, the OS load is volitile, so it will not persist once you restart.
Click to expand...

If you use the Save option that pops up when it restarts and put the Save file on the same pen drive it WILL be persistant and save any changes you made.









Edit: Why did I not let you know, jpmboy, please don't spank me, k?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> If you use the Save option that pops up when it restarts and put the Save file on the same pen drive it WILL be persistant and save any changes you made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Why did I not let you know, jpmboy, please don't spank me, k?


Yeah, I was unsure about it, wanted to create it and in the end I've chosen not to (too many things it keep asking me and I've even chosen a 512mb size on a 3 tb hdd but in the end I wasn't sure if that would be ok, an ext2 on a NTFS drive)








Next time I'll do it, maybe better to clear some free space and create a ext2 partition there or it won't make any difference?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> If you use the Save option that pops up when it restarts and put the Save file on the same pen drive it WILL be persistant and save any changes you made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Why did I not let you know, jpmboy, please don't spank me, k?


no.. I knew that for the puppy settings and session saves. I assumed he was asking about the OS image loaded into ram (like a ram disk or something.).


----------



## PowerK

If using Puppy Linux, you should check whether Puppy/GSAT recognizes all cores & thread.
For me, Puppy/GSAT only sees up to 8 cores (and does not seem to see logical cores either).
On the other hand, Mint/GSAT correctly sees & utilizes 10 cores (and 20 threads).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> If using Puppy Linux, you should check whether Puppy/GSAT recognizes all cores & thread.
> For me, Puppy/GSAT only sees up to 8 cores (and does not seem to see logical cores either).
> On the other hand, Mint/GSAT correctly sees & utilizes 10 cores (and 20 threads).


In short, don't use Puppy and use Mint as the OP states


----------



## arrow0309

Ok ok, let's just say I'll try with poppy at least a couple of times, up and running well, saving.
I still have to check this core nr. thingie (btw, where do ya see it?)

So, I finally have this new kit of 32 gigs of TridentZ quad, 3200 cl 14.
I'm gonna try with its Xmp first, assuming that'll gonna bump at least some voltages I just wanted to ask you what would be a decent range for these (vdram, vtt, sa) without pushing them any harder (keeping the voltages lower)?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Ok ok, let's just say I'll try with poppy at least a couple of times, up and running well, saving.
> I still have to check this core nr. thingie (btw, where do ya see it?)
> 
> So, I finally have this new kit of 32 gigs of TridentZ quad, 3200 cl 14.
> I'm gonna try with its Xmp first, assuming that'll gonna bump at least some voltages I just wanted to ask you what would be a decent range for these (vdram, vtt, sa) without pushing them any harder (keeping the voltages lower)?


You do not need to touch VTT. XMP, 1.35v should be fine. System Agent depends on the CPU, you may find it's stable with Auto as with IO, but most CPU should need no more than 1.15v. Keep a simple systematic approach before adjusting everything under the sun


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You do not need to touch VTT. XMP, 1.35v should be fine. System Agent depends on the CPU, you may find it's stable with Auto as with IO, but most CPU should need no more than 1.15v. Keep a simple systematic approach before adjusting everything under the sun


Thanks, you mean keeping my 1.05v vtt, right?
And setting all manually not just leaving them on the (higher) auto values yea?

I keep thinking of a nice and clean Mint install on a dedicated HD, could I use an external (USB 3.0 dock) hd as well or it has to be on sata?


----------



## Silent Scone

EDIT: as per previous post VCCIO no more than 1.15v should be needed, this is another rail i've not had to adjust manually.


----------



## FedericoUY

@Windeh
Is the run memtest v2.5 available for download?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> @Windeh
> Is the run memtest v2.5 available for download?


my understanding is that software is pirating from the HCi author. you can make a simple bat file that works with memtest pro.

here one for 8 threads and 16 GB. edit as needed. )of course change txt to bat and put it in the memtest folder.

memtest8.txt 0k .txt file


----------



## Desolutional

Or you could just use GSAT and support the Open Source initiative. No need for piracy, just a USB stick and and knowing how to use nomodeset if you run into boot issues.









Windows is only really needed for some obscure stuff like bit fade testing with a RAMdisk to check tREFI stability.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Or you could just use GSAT and support the Open Source initiative. No need for piracy, just a USB stick and and knowing how to use nomodeset if you run into boot issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windows is only really needed for some obscure stuff like bit fade testing with a RAMdisk to check tREFI stability.


tho.. and I know scone willlll scold me.... running GSAT from BASH is better than nothing at all.


----------



## toncij

resolved.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You do not need to touch VTT. XMP, 1.35v should be fine. System Agent depends on the CPU, you may find it's stable with Auto as with IO, but most CPU should need no more than 1.15v. Keep a simple systematic approach before adjusting everything under the sun


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> EDIT: as per previous post VCCIO no more than 1.15v should be needed, this is another rail i've not had to adjust manually.


OK, so as I previously mentioned the XMP on my mainboard literally bump some voltages and one more thing (all with the Auto value).
The vtt was raised to ~ 1.25v and the sa to (unbelievable) 1.38-1.39v (Auto setting on the offset value).
Also the cache freq is now at 3100 instead of 2800 (this one can rest for now, I'll deal with it later).

So I've just adjust the voltages manually, vtt now to 1.0875v and sa offset + 0.010 (1.00v).
Also the ram set to 1.35v instead of auto (but is showing the same increased values).

Here's a first aida cachemem and a Real benchmark ~ 45'



The read score seems not really great, innit?
A 1T CR could be done instantly on X99 or it involves some other volt. increase?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> OK, so as I previously mentioned the XMP on my mainboard literally bump some voltages and one more thing (all with the Auto value).
> The vtt was raised to ~ 1.25v and the sa to (unbelievable) 1.38-1.39v (Auto setting on the offset value).
> Also the cache freq is now at 3100 instead of 2800 (this one can rest for now, I'll deal with it later).
> 
> So I've just adjust the voltages manually, vtt now to 1.0875v and sa offset + 0.010 (1.00v).
> Also the ram set to 1.35v instead of auto (but is showing the same increased values).
> 
> Here's a first aida cachemem and a Real benchmark ~ 45'
> 
> 
> 
> The read score seems not really great, innit?
> A 1T CR could be done instantly on X99 or it involves some other volt. increase?


best thisng to do is clrcmos or load opt defaults to flush out all XMP settings (some you do not have access to). restore your core OC and cache OC if you had one, set the frequency (3200) dimm voltage and the primary timings manually. (1.35V 14-14-14-35-2T) be sure to DISABLE Fast Path thru the MRC and post to bios - change CR to 1 and set voltage 25mV higher than before .. eg, 1.375V.

Also down load a copy of Asrock Timing configurator v3.0.6 (for x99) and once in the OS, post a snip of the configurator window:


Need to see the RTLs and IOLs.


----------



## KamraK

Hi guys. I'm new here just created account









I'm using GSAT in windows 10 x64 without problems on "Bash on Ubuntu for Windows" it was very easy to set up. Just followed those instructions https://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/ and after 5 minuts i was ready to go and test my memory's i have G.Skill TridentZ 3600 CL16 if i'm right they are samsung b-die's.

I have a small problem aswell. I can pass GSAT test o 3600 MHz Timings auto, 3733 MHz Timings auto vRam-1.35 SA-1.25 IO-1.22 and it's fine. But with 3866 MHz Timings auto vRam- 1.35 SA-1.28 IO-1.24(the best voltages after hours of tuning) can't pass GSAT 1300 seconds left it was my record of stability. Tried aswell vRam-1.36 but seems not helping. What can I do more. My motherboard is MSI Z270 Gaming M7 + i7 7700K 5Ghz stable after deelid.

Is there any option in UEFI that can help stabilize my OC on 3866 ?

BTW. on Aid64 stability test everything is fine, memTestPro(just 1 hour of testing cuz don't like to wait 8 hours) is fine as well but i dont belive those programs thats why im using GSAT


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> best thisng to do is clrcmos or load opt defaults to flush out all XMP settings (some you do not have access to). restore your core OC and cache OC if you had one, set the frequency (3200) dimm voltage and the primary timings manually. (1.35V 14-14-14-35-2T) be sure to DISABLE Fast Path thru the MRC and post to bios - change CR to 1 and set voltage 25mV higher than before .. eg, 1.375V.
> 
> Also down load a copy of Asrock Timing configurator v3.0.6 (for x99) and once in the OS, post a snip of the configurator window:
> 
> 
> Need to see the RTLs and IOLs.


Great, I'll do all the stuff in late afternoon as soon as I get home.








Btw, I've just bought from ebay a new Intel ssd (2500 pro 180gb) I'm gonna dedicate to a nice and clean Linux Mint install.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> best thisng to do is clrcmos or load opt defaults to flush out all XMP settings (some you do not have access to). restore your core OC and cache OC if you had one, set the frequency (3200) dimm voltage and the primary timings manually. (1.35V 14-14-14-35-2T) be sure to DISABLE Fast Path thru the MRC and post to bios - change CR to 1 and set voltage 25mV higher than before .. eg, 1.375V.
> 
> Also down load a copy of Asrock Timing configurator v3.0.6 (for x99) and once in the OS, post a snip of the configurator window:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Need to see the RTLs and IOLs.


Done, however:
I had to manually set the vtt and sa voltages (1.085 and 1.000), not sure if I had to or just leave them at their defaults.
Set the (low) 3100 cache freq.
Didn't find that Fast Path nowhere, what is the MRC?
tRas shouldn't be 34?



PS:
Is that you were talking to disable?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Done, however:
> I had to manually set the vtt and sa voltages (1.085 and 1.000), not sure if I had to or just leave them at their defaults.
> Set the (low) 3100 cache freq.
> Didn't find that Fast Path nowhere, what is the MRC?
> tRas shouldn't be 34?
> 
> 
> 
> PS:
> Is that you were talking to disable?


lol- sorry, was busy playing with a new graphics card.









If those settings are stable to gsat or HCi then great! the latencies (rtl iol) look fine. so, tRAS should be equal to the sum of Cas, tRCD and tRTP... which would be 14+14+12 for that config (=40). You can ruin -2 from there with confidence (38). To get tRAS low, you need ot lower tRTP significantly (4 is the min).
Forget the fast path (dram training) setting - leave it on auto.
Check the stability and see how she does.


----------



## wholeeo

Can someone help me out. I'm sure this has been answered or gone through a 100 times through this 4000+ post thread. What would I need to play with if my system at times fails to boot speeds that pass 3 hours of GSAT?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Can someone help me out. I'm sure this has been answered or gone through a 100 times through this 4000+ post thread. What would I need to play with if my system at times fails to boot speeds that pass 3 hours of GSAT?


What debug code is displayed, and what platform?

The System Agent voltage firstly if it's a memory issue.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol- sorry, was busy playing with a new graphics card.


Ugh, I'm thinking about it


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol- sorry, was busy playing with a new graphics card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If those settings are stable to gsat or HCi then great! the latencies (rtl iol) look fine. so, tRAS should be equal to the sum of Cas, tRCD and tRTP... which would be 14+14+12 for that config (=40). You can ruin -2 from there with confidence (38). To get tRAS low, you need ot lower tRTP significantly (4 is the min).
> Forget the fast path (dram training) setting - leave it on auto.
> Check the stability and see how she does.


The new TXP 2 right?








Is that worth it over the previous one?
I need to see some benches later









So, let me see if I got you straight (yesterday evening I played some MEA with the "standard" factory 14-14-14-34-1T), you want me to try a 14-14-12 with tRas 34? Or 38 (or the previous 35)?
I know the older formula was like 5-5-5-15 (sum of the three) like, they were lower timings at that time (and low frequency) but now I can see they don't use this formula any longer.
I mean, increasing the tRas instead of lowering it will be giving me even more performance?

Edit:
Never mind, the factory 14-14-14-34-1T at 3200 will be enough for now so I'm gonna test it with Gsat and if there's still some room I'm gonna lower the vdram back to 1.35v.
Next step will be the cache to 3600
















https://www.nexthardware.com/mobile/recensioni/gskill-trident-z-3200mhz-c14-32gb-1162/8/

https://www.nexthardware.com/repository/recensioni/1162/immagini/GSkill_Trident_Z_3200MHz_32GB_Larghezza_banda_OC_Cache_3600.jpg


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What debug code is displayed, and what platform?
> 
> The System Agent voltage firstly if it's a memory issue.
> Ugh, I'm thinking about it


Z270, and unfortunately my board doesn't have a debug led. (Asus Z270G)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Z270, and unfortunately my board doesn't have a debug led. (Asus Z270G)


If it is indeed a DRAM issue (DRAM LED will be lit), try and adjust the SA voltage. Keep in mind too much can be as detrimental as too little, so if currently in auto you may wish to experiment. Only way to really know for sure is to soak test the system over time till training no longer fails


----------



## arrow0309

Is this 1h Gsat stressapp good enough?
Cause I've lowered the ram voltage to 1.35v (both) and I've run an hour easily at the above specs (3200 cl 14, 1T).
However I was playing this new Mass Effect and the pc crashed and got restarted in seconds (after about an hour or so).
I also had my txp overclocked (not too much), hell I need to run another 4h realbench this night (and before the cache oc).
And I've set the ram voltage back to 1.37v.


----------



## Desolutional

1 hour should be good enough to make sure it is stable enough for booting and doing a few light tasks. I personally run multiple passes of GSAT for 6 hours for a production ready system, one corrupt bit can wreck everything.

You could go even longer if you wish, but a compromise has to be made over actually being overly cautious with regards to stability, and what level of stability you require from your system.


----------



## ssateneth

Could someone recommend a course of action to get my RAM to clock higher? I'd happily loosen timings just to be able to post at all a higher frequency (will fix timings from there). I know I likely won't get much closer to my kit's rated speeds, but being binned better is how I got it this far.

The kit is G.SKILL 4x16GiB DDR4-3600 17-19-19-39 2T (Model F4-3600C17-16GTZKW)
Currently running DDR4-3200 12-13-12-24 2T, 250 tRFC, 32767 tREFI

Supporting hardware is i7-5960x 4.7GHz, 4.5GHz Cache, Motherboard ASUS RAMPAGE V EXTREME

The only memory controller related symptom I could alter seemingly was it was not stable at 3200 until I raised not my VCCIO or VCCSA, but actually the cache voltage. I bumped it up by 0.1v from stock and the problems melted away. But I am unable to post at anything above 3200. I tried exploring different BCLK straps to see if it was an issue with the RAM divider used, and tried an initial BCLK with a higher eventual BCLK to 'trick' it into training at a lower speed. VCCSA and VCCIO seem to have little effect, but will take a set of guidelines in the meantime as far as those 2 voltages and what one could consider appropriate for quad channel RAM higher than 3200MHz. Could also just be that HW-E doesn't want to run much faster and BW-E is the next step up as far as RAM speed capability goes.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Could someone recommend a course of action to get my RAM to clock higher? I'd happily loosen timings just to be able to post at all a higher frequency (will fix timings from there). I know I likely won't get much closer to my kit's rated speeds, but being binned better is how I got it this far.
> 
> The kit is G.SKILL 4x16GiB DDR4-3600 17-19-19-39 2T (Model F4-3600C17-16GTZKW)
> Currently running DDR4-3200 12-13-12-24 2T, 250 tRFC, 32767 tREFI
> 
> Supporting hardware is i7-5960x 4.7GHz, 4.5GHz Cache, Motherboard ASUS RAMPAGE V EXTREME
> 
> The only memory controller related symptom I could alter seemingly was it was not stable at 3200 until I raised not my VCCIO or VCCSA, but actually the cache voltage. I bumped it up by 0.1v from stock and the problems melted away. But I am unable to post at anything above 3200. I tried exploring different BCLK straps to see if it was an issue with the RAM divider used, and tried an initial BCLK with a higher eventual BCLK to 'trick' it into training at a lower speed. VCCSA and VCCIO seem to have little effect, but will take a set of guidelines in the meantime as far as those 2 voltages and what one could consider appropriate for quad channel RAM higher than 3200MHz. Could also just be that HW-E doesn't want to run much faster and BW-E is the next step up as far as RAM speed capability goes.


Hello

Post up a screenshot of HCI as outlined in the first post of this thread with the timings/speed stated above as a baseline to start from.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> 1 hour should be good enough to make sure it is stable enough for booting and doing a few light tasks. I personally run multiple passes of GSAT for 6 hours for a production ready system, one corrupt bit can wreck everything.
> 
> You could go even longer if you wish, but a compromise has to be made over actually being overly cautious with regards to stability, and what level of stability you require from your system.


It crashed during gaming because it wasn't stable even with an hour Gsat (next one will be running on a dedicated ssd with Linux Mint), it crashed after a couple of min during the 4h run of Real bench, increased the vtt to 1.100v and it lasted ~30'.
Now I've raised it to 1.125v and the SA from 1.00 to 1.10v (+0.020v).
Let's see if is gonna work now


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Post up a screenshot of HCI as outlined in the first post of this thread with the timings/speed stated above as a baseline to start from.


Working on the HCI right now. I saw HCI released 5.0 of their memtest, and it is MUCH faster than 4.0 (about twice as fast for me), but the DRAM power usage is about the same (40 watts on 4.0, 41.5 watts on 5.0)

Using Dang Wang version to batch it nicely (had to put the 5.0 copy inside the %temp% directly and make it read only so Dang Wang Version doesn't overwrite it with 4.0), hopefully gskill has an updated GUI since the monitor tab seems to be a little glitchy.

(and yes, i do own the pro version, no worries of piracy here)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Working on the HCI right now. I saw HCI released 5.0 of their memtest, and it is MUCH faster than 4.0 (about twice as fast for me), but the DRAM power usage is about the same (40 watts on 4.0, 41.5 watts on 5.0)
> 
> Using Dang Wang version to batch it nicely (had to put the 5.0 copy inside the %temp% directly and make it read only so Dang Wang Version doesn't overwrite it with 4.0), hopefully gskill has an updated GUI since the monitor tab seems to be a little glitchy.
> 
> (and yes, i do own the pro version, no worries of piracy here)


I noticed this last week. Will add this information to the op regarding the coverage speed


----------



## Jpmboy

Thanks for the heads up on 5.0. JUst bought the Pro version...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Post up a screenshot of HCI as outlined in the first post of this thread with the timings/speed stated above as a baseline to start from.
> 
> 
> 
> Working on the HCI right now. I saw HCI released 5.0 of their memtest, and it is MUCH faster than 4.0 (about twice as fast for me), but the DRAM power usage is about the same (40 watts on 4.0, 41.5 watts on 5.0)
> 
> Using Dang Wang version to batch it nicely (had to put the 5.0 copy inside the %temp% directly and make it read only so Dang Wang Version doesn't overwrite it with 4.0), hopefully gskill has an updated GUI since the monitor tab seems to be a little glitchy.
> 
> (and yes, i do own the pro version, no worries of piracy here)
Click to expand...

You do know the Dang Wang version has a virus, right? Upload it to www.virustotal.com


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You do know the Dang Wang version has a virus, right? Upload it to www.virustotal.com


False positive due to how it manipulates the memtest windows. It's fine.


----------



## ssateneth

So this thing with.. it's really stubborn. I loosened timings to 16-16-16-36 2T , default tRFC tREFI @ 3200MHz 1.35v, and it'll still throw the odd error every now and then. 8 hours in, 800% coverage, had 4 errors. I probably should test them individually but i HIGHLY doubt it's the kit. I dialed back speeds to something that really can't be at fault (4ghz on core and cache at 1.25v/1.2v respectively), VCCIO still 1.15v (+100mv), VCCSA now +0.35 (approx 1.175v). For some reason, though, I hold little hope. Does anything else have an idea what I could change or tweak to get rid of this issue? I really just want to get a baseline 3200MHz flat out stable. Then I can go from there. After all, the kit is certified for 3600MHz.

Primary reason is the computer was just turning off while gaming. Just flat off. No BSOD, no crash, no hang, just off. Thought it might have been VGA card since I had to put the block back on with new thermal pads on the VRMs, they might not make good contact. Had issues with radeon 7970's in the past causing system power off when they pulled too much power (core was fine, but vrm hit in the area of 110c before cutting power entirely on its own), but GTX 980 doesn't have thermal sensors on VRM.


----------



## Ding23

Is there any downside to running my DDR4 memory at 1t instead of 2t? It seems to pass tests at the mhz and timing I'm at, also is there any performance improvements over running it at 1t?
Might be able to run my RAM at 13 instead of 14 if I go with 2t instead of 1t?

Using CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 on a z170 board, but running at 3000mhz 14-16-16-30 1t, maybe at 2t I can get tigher timings? Are these timings unnecessarily stressing this RAM too much at 1t with no benefits?


----------



## Desolutional

1T might need more voltage to stabilise than 2T. 2T might let you set tighter timings. I prefer to set 1T first, before playing with timings, usually it should be a "free" performance boost.

http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/6899/ddr4-memory-overclocking-report-beginners-guide/index3.html


----------



## Ding23

Yeah, I needed to go 1.36v instead of 1.35v to get 1t to pass the stress tests. I guess if it passed and no BSOD or anything I shouldn't fear data corruption or anything or the sticks dying in the near future from stressing it?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ding23*
> 
> Is there any downside to running my DDR4 memory at 1t instead of 2t? It seems to pass tests at the mhz and timing I'm at, also is there any performance improvements over running it at 1t?
> Might be able to run my RAM at 13 instead of 14 if I go with 2t instead of 1t?
> 
> Using CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 on a z170 board, but running at 3000mhz 14-16-16-30 1t, maybe at 2t I can get tigher timings? Are these timings unnecessarily stressing this RAM too much at 1t with no benefits?


if it's running well with command rate 1, stick with it. Only time I do not set CR1 is when the kit just can't do it ast the frequency I want to run.
my 64GB kit cannot do 3400c13 1T, lower speeds can manage it but do not give a competitive bandwidth with this configuration.








btw - a 1.36V you're fine. I've been at 1.45V vdimm for many months now.


----------



## Ding23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if it's running well with command rate 1, stick with it. Only time I do not set CR1 is when the kit just can't do it ast the frequency I want to run.
> my 64GB kit cannot do 3400c13 1T, lower speeds can manage it but do not give a competitive bandwidth with this configuration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw - a 1.36V you're fine. I've been at 1.45V vdimm for many months now.


Alright thanks, I'll just leave it, maybe mess around again when I get 2x8 more sticks for 32GB, maybe go higher mhz with 2t


----------



## ssateneth

Touching up on my last post. The issue where the PC just flat out turns off without any warning may be Cache speeds. I've been dancing between 2 BIOS versions today, trying progressively slower RAM speeds without any improvement. I started from scratch on completely default settings except for DRAM voltage (1.35), speed (3200), and an average timing of 16-16-16-36 2T, everything else auto. No power off. I hotclocked (is that a word?) the core from the default 3500 to 4800 while in OS, no issues thus far. So I'll need to dial in cache on a later date.

So I learned that if your PC experiences hard power offs, or black screen crash without BSOD or reboot, it's probably your cache clock/volts. Now i'll be able to properly run HCI to dial in RAM stuff.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Touching up on my last post. The issue where the PC just flat out turns off without any warning may be Cache speeds. I've been dancing between 2 BIOS versions today, trying progressively slower RAM speeds without any improvement. I started from scratch on completely default settings except for DRAM voltage (1.35), speed (3200), and an average timing of 16-16-16-36 2T, everything else auto. No power off. I hotclocked (is that a word?) the core from the default 3500 to 4800 while in OS, no issues thus far. So I'll need to dial in cache on a later date.
> 
> So I learned that if your PC experiences hard power offs, or black screen crash without BSOD or reboot, it's probably your cache clock/volts. Now i'll be able to properly run HCI to dial in RAM stuff.


The slow rate of errors over that much coverage can be indicative of cache instability, also.

You can also try disabling C-States beyond C3 as higher cache overclocks can struggle with these lower power states when pushing things, as the cache really needs the voltage


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ding23*
> 
> Alright thanks, I'll just leave it, maybe mess around again when I get 2x8 more sticks for 32GB, maybe go higher mhz with 2t


by mixing kits you are more likely to go lower frequency.. and 2T.


----------



## misoonigiri

Have a query about GSAT:
When it completes it lists a summary that includes Memory Copy rate eg 36,421MB/s
If I tighten the timings and it passes GSAT, but I see that Memory Copy rate has fallen eg 36,000MB/s - is it a strong indicator that something is wrong?


----------



## PowerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Have a query about GSAT:
> When it completes it lists a summary that includes Memory Copy rate eg 36,421MB/s
> If I tighten the timings and it passes GSAT, but I see that Memory Copy rate has fallen eg 36,000MB/s - is it a strong indicator that something is wrong?


Hmm.. that's roughly 1.1% difference. Perhaps, you can regard it as a margin of error.


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerK*
> 
> Hmm.. that's roughly 1.1% difference. Perhaps, you can regard it as a margin of error.


I see, you could be right - I'll keep that in mind, thanks!


----------



## ducegt

Asrock Z270 K6 got a BIOS update yesterday. v1.2. I can now boot 3866 in dual channel, but it's not stable. 3733 with same tweaked settings as 3600, but with +1 primary timings wasn't stable either. AIDI64 scores went up, but with higher latency. Progress none the less.


----------



## Cyb3r

ok i'm trying to get a 32gb kit as a replacement for my 16gb kit of ripjaws 4 (F4-3200C16-4GRK) they're running at 3200mhz atm on my Msi Gaming ack 9 (i'm rebuilding the box and swapping to the rampage V edi 10 when i get my new case unwrapped (rma from nanoxia they've really been awesome btw)

Would you guys replace it with a trident Z 3200mhz 32gb kit or a https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3000c15q-16grk for a 5960x?

I know the cpu can handle 3200mhz ram but the qvl list for haswell-e hasn't been updated for 3200mhz


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyb3r*
> 
> ok i'm trying to get a 32gb kit as a replacement for my 16gb kit of ripjaws 4 (F4-3200C16-4GRK) they're running at 3200mhz atm on my Msi Gaming ack 9 (i'm rebuilding the box and swapping to the rampage V edi 10 when i get my new case unwrapped (rma from nanoxia they've really been awesome btw)
> 
> Would you guys replace it with a trident Z 3200mhz 32gb kit or a https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3000c15q-16grk for a 5960x?
> 
> I know the cpu can handle 3200mhz ram but the qvl list for haswell-e hasn't been updated for 3200mhz


http://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzsw


----------



## FedericoUY

Some testing @ low volts with the TridentZ 3600c15 kit , I got apart from 3600c15 @ 1.36 vram on bios (like xmp), 3866c16 @ 1.37vram on bios and 4000c17 @ same (1.37vram bios)... 300%+ on memtest 5



FedericoUY -- 4000 17-17-17-42-2T -- 1.37V (bios), SA 1.15v, IO 1.15v


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> Some testing @ low volts with the TridentZ 3600c15 kit , I got apart from 3600c15 @ 1.36 vram on bios (like xmp), 3866c16 @ 1.37vram on bios and 4000c17 @ same (1.37vram bios)... 300%+ on memtest 5
> 
> 
> 
> FedericoUY -- 4000 17-17-17-42-2T -- 1.37V (bios), SA 1.15v, IO 1.15v


Nice CPU


----------



## wholeeo

Does system agent still affect cache on Z270?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Does system agent still affect cache on Z270?


It can manifest as cache instability if not dialed in well enough


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It can manifest as cache instability if not dialed in well enough


Thanks, looks like I stabilized cache with some additional vcore.


----------



## FedericoUY

Some more playing with b-dies TridentZ, always in the lower vram side...

FedericoUY -- 4133 17-17-17-38-1T -- 1.375V (bios), SA 1.15v, IO 1.15v


----------



## becks

M8I
7700k @5.1 / 5.1 1.35v
3733 DDR at 1.385 16-16-16-28 CR1 32Gb (2x16 3200C15 Trident Kit)
RB pass 80 mins
Prime pass 60 mins

I get 1 error (only 1) in hci memtest at around 200-250% mark and if I leave the PC untouched and the screen turns off when I get back 2-3h later and try to wake it up it gets stuck there with the screen off. Mobo led shows a0 (which is normal) the only way to get it out of there is to unplug the psu and start it again...
Giving more juice to SA, VCCIO or Vcore does not help...any ideas ?

Edit: If I open 30 + instances of MemTest (1012 MBytes x 30) it gives an error earlier (40-60% mark) ...i use to run 198x x 16 or similar before ...also goes faster this way....


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> M8I
> 7700k @5.1 / 5.1 1.35v
> 3733 DDR at 1.385 16-16-16-28 CR1 32Gb (2x16 3200C15 Trident Kit)
> RB pass 80 mins
> Prime pass 60 mins
> 
> I get 1 error (only 1) in hci memtest at around 200-250% mark and if I leave the PC untouched and the screen turns off when I get back 2-3h later and try to wake it up it gets stuck there with the screen off. Mobo led shows a0 (which is normal) the only way to get it out of there is to unplug the psu and start it again...
> Giving more juice to SA, VCCIO or Vcore does not help...any ideas ?
> 
> Edit: If I open 30 + instances of MemTest (1012 MBytes x 30) it gives an error earlier (40-60% mark) ...i use to run 198x x 16 or similar before ...also goes faster this way....


Is uncore at default value?


----------



## FedericoUY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> M8I
> 7700k @5.1 / 5.1 1.35v
> 3733 DDR at 1.385 16-16-16-28 CR1 32Gb (2x16 3200C15 Trident Kit)
> RB pass 80 mins
> Prime pass 60 mins
> 
> I get 1 error (only 1) in hci memtest at around 200-250% mark and if I leave the PC untouched and the screen turns off when I get back 2-3h later and try to wake it up it gets stuck there with the screen off. Mobo led shows a0 (which is normal) the only way to get it out of there is to unplug the psu and start it again...
> Giving more juice to SA, VCCIO or Vcore does not help...any ideas ?
> 
> Edit: If I open 30 + instances of MemTest (1012 MBytes x 30) it gives an error earlier (40-60% mark) ...i use to run 198x x 16 or similar before ...also goes faster this way....


One notch more of vram, lets say 1.39 or 1.395?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Is uncore at default value?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> One notch more of vram, lets say 1.39 or 1.395?


Core is 5.1...Uncore is 5.1 as well.
Think I found the culprit...

I went with the assumption that SA and VCCIO should start way higher with these mem overclock so I started at 1.18 both and slowly bumped them up while testing...now I scrapped that Idea and started way lower....at 0.9 both and ram at 1.385....now at..1/0625 VCCIO and 1.875 SA, Ram 1.385 I passed 4h 300% hci with only 1 error and the screen came back on when I moved the mouse.

Seems to much is as bad as to lite with these voltages, have to find the sweet spot.
Will bump VCCIO to 1.075 and SA to 1.10 now and let it run again for 2-3 h and see what happens..

This will be my daily 24/7 profile so I want to keep everything under 1.4...
After I sort this out I can switch back to the bench profile and try my luck with some higher frequencies...It can boot fine up to 4133 and over at 19 - 19 - 19 - 47 but aida scores were lower than what I have now...

Edit: Corrected some volts


----------



## becks

Tough for a second that I finally found the answer to my questions..

And than....7 min later


----------



## Silent Scone

lower uncore...


----------



## ducegt

Only 7 minutes?

My last post was a 2,700% run without errors that failed (well, 1 error) 3 runs afterwards between 1000 and 2000. I had a single freeze only using a web browser that prompted such insanity. What fixed it was taking tWR from 12 to 24. XTU scores the same and I was error free after 5,000%. Now, I wait


----------



## ssateneth

Still ongoing with my 'new' motherbaord/CPU/RAM. 5960x, cache seems to top off at ~4500 (voltage still ongoing), core at 4700 1.31v. IMC isn't terribly strong, but better than my last chip. 4x16GiB, 3200MHz, best run so far without too much tinkering is 12-13-12-24-1T 250 tRFC, 32767 tREFI, and a setting called DRAM REF CLK I set to 8 which sets subtimings to that of AUTO's of a lower frequency divider (hence tighter subtimings on auto without knowing what they all are). RTLs on auto hit 49-47-49-47 and IOL 8-8-8-8.

Testing is still ongoing of course. I've stopping using HCI as its too slow, now using GSAT on a portable hard drive. Also confirmed that cache instability = sudden power off, and SA instability = rare memory errors and black screens (but otherwise responsive system)

Funny thing, been running GSAT all day with cache 4500 1.26v, then get back into windows at same speeds but relaxed RAM timings since i'm not done with them yet, and 2 power offs already. Something to do with idle states maybe? Don't want to back down to 4.4 if I have to.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Only 7 minutes?
> 
> My last post was a 2,700% run without errors that failed (well, 1 error) 3 runs afterwards between 1000 and 2000. I had a single freeze only using a web browser that prompted such insanity. What fixed it was taking tWR from 12 to 24. XTU scores the same and I was error free after 5,000%. Now, I wait


Its not a contest







.. when I leave for holiday I will leave it running for 500% ..but at the current state that will take me roughly 84 hours









Finally happy to submit some results

becks -- 3733 16-16-16-28-CR1 -- 1.390V (bios), SA 1.1250 v, VCCIO 1.0750, PCH 1.0375, Core 5.1/ Uncore 5.1 1.365 v


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Still ongoing with my 'new' motherbaord/CPU/RAM. 5960x, cache seems to top off at ~4500 (voltage still ongoing), core at 4700 1.31v. IMC isn't terribly strong, but better than my last chip. 4x16GiB, 3200MHz, best run so far without too much tinkering is 12-13-12-24-1T 250 tRFC, 32767 tREFI, and a setting called DRAM REF CLK I set to 8 which sets subtimings to that of AUTO's of a lower frequency divider (hence tighter subtimings on auto without knowing what they all are). RTLs on auto hit 49-47-49-47 and IOL 8-8-8-8.
> 
> Testing is still ongoing of course. I've stopping using HCI as its too slow, now using GSAT on a portable hard drive. Also confirmed that cache instability = sudden power off, and SA instability = rare memory errors and black screens (but otherwise responsive system)
> 
> Funny thing, been running GSAT all day with cache 4500 1.26v, then get back into windows at same speeds but relaxed RAM timings since i'm not done with them yet, and 2 power offs already. Something to do with idle states maybe? Don't want to back down to 4.4 if I have to.


24 is low for tRAS. post up a asrock timing config snip. version 3.0.6 for x99


----------



## becks

My Aida scores are in the range of 50...

52/53 - 58/57 - 50-49....41/44 ns (will post when I get back home)
Any thing I could try to improve that ? ( my pic of timings is 2 posts back )


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Its not a contest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. when I leave for holiday I will leave it running for 500% ..but at the current state that will take me roughly 84 hours


No contest of course. My point it I was getting error after 7 hours so if you see them in 7 minutes you aren't on the edge of stability yet.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> No contest of course. My point it I was getting error after 7 hours so if you see them in 7 minutes you aren't on the edge of stability yet.


I strongly believe that everyone should have they'r own kind of "stable" if you understand....
I agree with what you say, but at the same time for what I do I run RB only for 50-70mins and Prime for 30 mins...and it is stable for me...others may run 8h+ and its stable for them and what they do...

What really defines stable ? a standard ? or just being able to operate 24/7 on the specific task you do....

If in 6 months time I start getting corrupt files I might increase stuff and what not... but even if that happens I have no important data to lose on the pc, everything important is stored on a different storage device on network..

I only submitted my results as to contribute to the database and help others if their looking for similar setups...although their mileage may vary..

Edit:
Here i s Aida & Timings screen


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I strongly believe that everyone should have they'r own kind of "stable" if you understand....
> I agree with what you say, but at the same time for what I do I run RB only for 50-70mins and Prime for 30 mins...and it is stable for me...others may run 8h+ and its stable for them and what they do...
> 
> What really defines stable ? a standard ? or just being able to operate 24/7 on the specific task you do....
> 
> If in 6 months time I start getting corrupt files I might increase stuff and what not... but even if that happens I have no important data to lose on the pc, everything important is stored on a different storage device on network..
> 
> I only submitted my results as to contribute to the database and help others if their looking for similar setups...although their mileage may vary..
> 
> Edit:
> Here i s Aida & Timings screen


Solid.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> What really defines stable ? a standard ? or just being able to operate 24/7 on the specific task you do....
> 
> If in 6 months time I start getting corrupt files I might increase stuff and what not... but even if that happens I have no important data to lose on the pc, everything important is stored on a different storage device on network..
> 
> I only submitted my results as to contribute to the database and help others if their looking for similar setups...although their mileage may vary.


I'm not looking to bust anyone's chops. Maybe what you've got now is stable, but in my experience those errors will manifest as a total freeze up when surfing the web. Unlikely that it would happen during something important, but possible of course. Again maybe you won't have any issues going forward. Stable for me at least means no hard freezes when surfing.


----------



## KamraK

Hi.

From my testing program y-cruncher is the best for testing instability if u not pass Pi count that will means u have instability in CPU or RAM. If u pass 2-3 times then u don't need to test HCI memtest for 4 hours. This test make my life easier and it took only 200 secounds to count Pi with heavy AVX instructions. I saved a lot of time thanks to this program. Let me know if your scores HCI memtest vs y-cruncher match. From my testing they are match but i need more data from you guys









Today i will get MAXIMUS IX APEX motherboard and i have TridentZ 3600 CL16 samsung b-die so will post here my OC today.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I strongly believe that everyone should have they'r own kind of "stable" if you understand....
> I agree with what you say, but at the same time for what I do I run RB only for 50-70mins and Prime for 30 mins...and it is stable for me...others may run 8h+ and its stable for them and what they do...
> 
> What really defines stable ? a standard ? or just being able to operate 24/7 on the specific task you do....
> 
> If in 6 months time I start getting corrupt files I might increase stuff and what not... but even if that happens I have no important data to lose on the pc, everything important is stored on a different storage device on network..
> 
> I only submitted my results as to contribute to the database and help others if their looking for similar setups...although their mileage may vary..
> 
> Edit:
> Here i s Aida & Timings screen


The coverage in the OP dictates a self-imposed minimum, if you can't cover 200% without errors then the memory is far from stable. If time is an issue you can use Stress App and set the test to run for at least one hour.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KamraK*
> 
> Hi.
> 
> From my testing program y-cruncher is the best for testing instability if u not pass Pi count that will means u have instability in CPU or RAM. If u pass 2-3 times then u don't need to test HCI memtest for 4 hours.


Y Cruncher is not an all-out memory stress test, as Pi isn't


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Tough for a second that I finally found the answer to my questions..
> 
> And than....7 min later


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Finally happy to submit some results
> 
> becks -- 3733 16-16-16-28-CR1 -- 1.390V (bios), SA 1.1250 v, VCCIO 1.0750, PCH 1.0375, Core 5.1/ Uncore 5.1 1.365 v


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Here i s Aida & Timings screen


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The coverage in the OP dictates a self-imposed minimum, if you can't cover 200% without errors then the memory is far from stable. If time is an issue you can use Stress App and set the test to run for at least one hour.


The 200+% from post 2 is not with the same settings as post 1... was not stable there and as soon as I started opening programs with hci running to print screen it gave 1 error...that's why there is the 7 min difference in prints (Took 7 min to open asrock timings / hwinfo / cpu z... the memory was that loaded )

In the second post the one I submitted I changed the Dram V ...Sa and VCCIO v.
Will re-test today with HCI for 200+ if you think its necessary.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> The 200+% from post 2 is not with the same settings as post 1... was not stable there and as soon as I started opening programs with hci running to print screen it gave 1 error...that's why there is the 7 min difference in prints (Took 7 min to open asrock timings / hwinfo / cpu z... the memory was that loaded )
> 
> In the second post the one I submitted I changed the Dram V ...Sa and VCCIO v.
> Will re-test today with HCI for 200+ if you think its necessary.


It was the royal 'you', but if testing with HCI I'd say two laps is pretty minimal. Version 5.0 is 30% faster as discussed not too long ago, so keep that in mind also


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It was the royal 'you', but if testing with HCI I'd say two laps is pretty minimal. Version 5.0 is 30% faster as discussed not too long ago, so keep that in mind also


Criticism is always good...when it is constructive..
Will post back later with the results...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Criticism is always good...when it is constructive..
> Will post back later with the results...


Ok, don't put yourself out lol.


----------



## misoonigiri

misoonigiri---6700K @4.830/4.305---3780Mhz-C16-16-16-38-2T---1.395v---SA 1.2125v---IO 1.15v---Stressapptest---2 Hours---HCI 3300%

I'm sorry if my oc is too amateurish by OCN standards, but this my first steps in tweaking the un-decipherable mem timings - much thanks to the pointers posted in this thread


----------



## cookiesowns

Not sure if this is the right forum, but I've recently picked up a Z270 Maximus Hero, as well as a 5.1ghz binned 7700K. The Ram is g.skill DDR4 3200 2x16GB C14. Having issues booting XMP even with tweaking VCCIO and SA with a full range of values. Stuck on post code 55. If I run each stick individually it can boot fine.

Not sure if it's motherboard, IMC, or potentially bad RAM?


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Not sure if this is the right forum, but I've recently picked up a Z270 Maximus Hero, as well as a 5.1ghz binned 7700K. The Ram is g.skill DDR4 3200 2x16GB C14. Having issues booting XMP even with tweaking VCCIO and SA with a full range of values. Stuck on post code 55. If I run each stick individually it can boot fine.
> 
> Not sure if it's motherboard, IMC, or potentially bad RAM?


How about slightly more dram voltage eg. 1.360v
Or 1.375v just to see if it boots


----------



## mus1mus

6900K @ 4400
VCore - 1.3V
VCCIN - 1.95 BIOS 1.93 LOAD
VCCSA - 1.09

TridentZ 3200C14 @ 3466 C14-14-14-34-1T
VDimm - 1.45V

GSAT 1Hr


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> misoonigiri---6700K @4.830/4.305---3780Mhz-C16-16-16-38-2T---1.395v---SA 1.2125v---IO 1.15v---Stressapptest---2 Hours---HCI 3300%
> 
> I'm sorry if my oc is too amateurish by OCN standards, but this my first steps in tweaking the un-decipherable mem timings - much thanks to the pointers posted in this thread


Not at all, 4.8+ is very respectable on Skylake, too








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookiesowns*
> 
> Not sure if this is the right forum, but I've recently picked up a Z270 Maximus Hero, as well as a 5.1ghz binned 7700K. The Ram is g.skill DDR4 3200 2x16GB C14. Having issues booting XMP even with tweaking VCCIO and SA with a full range of values. Stuck on post code 55. If I run each stick individually it can boot fine.
> 
> Not sure if it's motherboard, IMC, or potentially bad RAM?


Try Maximus Tweak Mode 1 if not done so already


----------



## becks

Still doing tests here ...and I keep saying I will post today and than the day passes...and I have to postpone it....
Either HCI gives error round 270-300% mark or Stressapptest gives 1 error between 1:45 - 2:00 hour mark....
1...only 1....its so frustrating...
I think I either need to go past 1.390 which I don't want to .... Or go from 16-16-16-28-1 to 16-16-16-30-1 which I don't want either cause It will drop my Aida bench score....such a trade off ...
Will see if I can get 3866 15-15-15-...-1 running at around 1.425.... this CPU i'm having is a dud... bad IMC....5.1 wall ( 5.2 not happening not even at 1.5v) and I am greatly limited by temps as I go under water only at the end of next week....such a PITA


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Not at all, 4.8+ is very respectable on Skylake, too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try Maximus Tweak Mode 1 if not done so already


Thanks, but I see almost everyone doing 1T - think I'll have another go at it, but not so soon


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Thanks, but I see almost everyone doing 1T - think I'll have another go at it, but not so soon


I can't do 1T even at XMP. I can bench with it but it will quickly throw errors. It's not that big if a deal IMO. Not gunna replace Mobo because of this.


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> I can't do 1T even at XMP. I can bench with it but it will quickly throw errors. It's not that big if a deal IMO. Not gunna replace Mobo because of this.


I'm pretty sure they have good knowledge about tweaking sub-timings & voltages to get 1T stable









Right now I'm glad things are working out for me after following the pointers posted in this thread! Before that nice benchmark score but errors either with HCI or GSAT even with 2T!


----------



## Duality92

Have any of you guys used the new TPU tool? Is it enough for claming a certain stability?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1628474/tpu-techpowerup-announces-memtest64-test-memory-from-within-windows/0_20


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Thanks, but I see almost everyone doing 1T - think I'll have another go at it, but not so soon


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Duality92*
> 
> Have any of you guys used the new TPU tool? Is it enough for claming a certain stability?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1628474/tpu-techpowerup-announces-memtest64-test-memory-from-within-windows/0_20


Considering it was only released yesterday, it's doubtful anyone has done any testing with it of merit. Those familiar with Stress App and HCI probably need not pay much attention. It's not really a hole that needed filling.


----------



## Zaen

Like me, some ppl are willing to try it and see this new memtest64 ability and perf detecting erros. Myself, if i can do it this weekend, i'm going to put my timings in values i know are going to give errors after an hour or less, i know this from previous testing trying to OC my RAM sticks.

I'm sure they would appreciate some feedback on the app's performance


----------



## KamraK

KamraK--i7 7700K @5/4.6---4272Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.445v---SA 1.25v IO-1.225v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaen*
> 
> Like me, some ppl are willing to try it and see this new memtest64 ability and perf detecting erros. Myself, if i can do it this weekend, i'm going to put my timings in values i know are going to give errors after an hour or less, i know this from previous testing trying to OC my RAM sticks.
> 
> I'm sure they would appreciate some feedback on the app's performance


I have some BIOS profiles set that are marginal enough to only throw one or two errors in Stress App that will be telling enough. If it's not as stringent as that test, then it's probably not worth using in it's place.


----------



## Zaen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I have some BIOS profiles set that are marginal enough to only throw one or two errors in Stress App that will be telling enough. If it's not as stringent as that test, then it's probably not worth using in it's place.


Agreed, Although i never used Google's stressapptest because i needed to boot a linux mint before running it, seems it can be run from Win10 now. Usually i leave HCI running over night and the next morning, or more, if i want a 500% - 1k% coverage. HCI is very slow but imo very trust worthy because it takes soooo long that Windows processes eventually free memory blocks to ocupy other or move them to page file for a moment allowing for a true full coverage of all the modules.

If this new 64bit version of memtest is good at detecting errors and faster then HCI i will add it to my app suite for testing OC's


----------



## Silent Scone

Getting sporadic issues with memory allocation...

No such problem on Stress App.


----------



## moorhen2

Can you add this please.

Moorhen2-- i7 [email protected] 5.1/4.7---3600Mhz-Cl15-15-15-34-2T---1.430v---SA 1.150v---IO---1.150v---HCI 600%


----------



## TomcatV

A few pages back, saw some guys looking for Tridents 3600 C15/C16 16GB ... If your on a budget and don't like the US going rate $220 for C15's / $190 for C16's, you might want to take a look at *This Kit* ... they rarely come up for auction, and sometimes the bidding get's crazy ... but you may also get quite a deal for a quality kit









@moorhen2 ... very nice job!







... curious did you try 1T?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Getting sporadic issues with memory allocation...
> 
> No such problem on Stress App.


Hello

Seems you are not the only one.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BoMbY*
> 
> Thanks, finally a Windows mem test tool that doesn't totally suck. This seems to try to allocate a continuous memory block though, so it may have problems with other programs running (memory fragmentation). Can only allocate 6 GB when Firefox is running on my system. Also my system crapped out when allocating the maximum (28 GB it was), and trying to open another application - could have something to do with Fury X system memory allocation.


----------



## Silent Scone

When finally able to allocate the correct amount - it did find an error where Stress App did too, within 15 minutes. Which is a good sign, however I doubt we will be replacing Stress App with it any time soon.

Will test known good settings over the weekend


----------



## ssateneth

These rare random errors are getting the best of me. They're super rare; I ran a GSAT for 6 hours without an errors, then again and had an error 30 minutes in. I finally ruled out CPU core and cache, having it run 4.7 1.3v core, 4.5 1.25v cache (5960x) at 2133MHz RAM on default RAM and SA settings/volts, passed GSAT 12 hours. Now I put the RAM to 3200MHz with a reasonable 16-18-18-38-2T-everything else auto timings and 1.35v VDIMM as a new 'baseline' to work with; now I think I just need to find the correct SA and IO voltages. The 4x16GiB kit is advertised to be good up to 3600Mhz 17-19-19-39-2T, so I'm just working against the memory controller at this point. It is Samsung B-die

Aside from playing with the 2 mentioned voltages, anyone else have an idea on how to squash these last rare errors before I can move forward to higher VDIMM and lower timings?

I do want to add so far that under +0.1v SA offset (approx 0.925v), the PC will freeze uncommonly (usually in an hour or two). I've been steadily increasing SA by 0.025v increments, up to +0.3v (~1.125v) so far each time GSAT throws an error. I'll try as high as +0.5 before i start over and bump up VCCIO by the same increment. Is this how long memory testing is supposed to take? Or do I just have an incapable memory contoller?


----------



## Silent Scone

To rule out uncore you would be better running the memory at the 3200 settings with default uncore, not vice-versa.

You have purchased a kit for another platform, so tuning is often expected.


----------



## KamraK

Please add this to list.
KamraK--i77700K @5016/4.7---4272Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.445v---SA 1.25v IO-1.225v---HCI 1000%


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> These rare random errors are getting the best of me. They're super rare; I ran a GSAT for 6 hours without an errors, then again and had an error 30 minutes in. I finally ruled out CPU core and cache, having it run 4.7 1.3v core, 4.5 1.25v cache (5960x) at 2133MHz RAM on default RAM and SA settings/volts, passed GSAT 12 hours. Now I put the RAM to 3200MHz with a reasonable 16-18-18-38-2T-everything else auto timings and 1.35v VDIMM as a new 'baseline' to work with; now I think I just need to find the correct SA and IO voltages. The 4x16GiB kit is advertised to be good up to 3600Mhz 17-19-19-39-2T, so I'm just working against the memory controller at this point. It is Samsung B-die
> 
> Aside from playing with the 2 mentioned voltages, anyone else have an idea on how to squash these last rare errors before I can move forward to higher VDIMM and lower timings?
> 
> I do want to add so far that under +0.1v SA offset (approx 0.925v), the PC will freeze uncommonly (usually in an hour or two). I've been steadily increasing SA by 0.025v increments, up to +0.3v (~1.125v) so far each time GSAT throws an error. I'll try as high as +0.5 before i start over and bump up VCCIO by the same increment. Is this how long memory testing is supposed to take? Or do I just have an incapable memory contoller?


I think I am in the same boat....passed 2h Stressapptest...at 1.370 Vcore than lowered it to 1.350 and passed 8h+ Rb.....than I tried Stressapptest again and It gives errors...
At this point I am retrying Stressapptest at 1.370 Vcore but if I still get errors I will narrow it to the fact that my memory has everything else in Bios set to AUTO (secondary, tertiary etc etc timings...) and those slightly adjust themselves from restart to restart....so its a matter of passing Stressapptest than print screen the Timings and go back in Bios and nail them down manually...

It is just my theory ...still testing..


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomcatV*
> 
> A few pages back, saw some guys looking for Tridents 3600 C15/C16 16GB ... If your on a budget and don't like the US going rate $220 for C15's / $190 for C16's, you might want to take a look at *This Kit* ... they rarely come up for auction, and sometimes the bidding get's crazy ... but you may also get quite a deal for a quality kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @moorhen2 ... very nice job!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... curious did you try 1T?


This kit wont do 1T at 3600, it's a 3200mhz 32 gig kit, not without insane v's.


----------



## ducegt

New tool doesn't give any false positives if other trials are assumed to be true. Same settings had no errors after 5,000%+ memtest.


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> To rule out uncore you would be better running the memory at the 3200 settings with default uncore, not vice-versa.
> 
> You have purchased a kit for another platform, so tuning is often expected.


Noted. I'll do some more runs tonight at 3GHz uncore. and go from there.


----------



## becks

becks -- 3733 16-16-16-28-CR1 -- 1.395V (bios), SA 1.13750 v, VCCIO 1.08750, PCH 1.0250, Core 5.1/ Uncore 5.1 1.360 v

Stressapptest 2h


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> 
> 
> New tool doesn't give any false positives if other trials are assumed to be true. Same settings had no errors after 5,000%+ memtest.


You ran Maximum?

For me, Maximum (15360MB) takes 70 seconds to run the Bitpattern test.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> You ran Maximum?
> 
> For me, Maximum (15360MB) takes 70 seconds to run the Bitpattern test.


For the sake of comparison, it's probably best to run the test for the same time of coverage you would the other tests


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> You ran Maximum?
> 
> For me, Maximum (15360MB) takes 70 seconds to run the Bitpattern test.


Yes. I don't know what tests are what. I just clicked start and ran it for 10 hours. I assume it looped.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> For the sake of comparison, it's probably best to run the test for the same time of coverage you would the other tests


Not sure the length of the test has anything to do with it.


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Yes. I don't know what tests are what. I just clicked start and ran it for 10 hours. I assume it looped.


I believe you might find it is not actually testing all the memory.

When it first starts, it will say how much memory it is testing.


----------



## Praz

Hello

This memory testing program is definitely not ready for prime time. I'm not sure why it is even being discussed in this thread as the first post lays out precisely what is required. Anything else is irrelevant to this thread.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> I believe you might find it is not actually testing all the memory.
> 
> When it first starts, it will say how much memory it is testing.


And what has led you to believe that? Is it the time between loops? The first loops take more than 70 seconds and the period must get shorter as the tests go on for reasons beyond me.

Paint opened slower than normal after 10 hours of the test so it seemed to have saturated everything and was forced to use the page-file.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Module 0:
Empty
Module 1:
DDR4, 8192 MB, 64-bit, 3600 MHz
ChannelA-DIMM1 BANK 1 04CD F4-3600C15-8GTZ
Module 2:
Empty
Module 3:
DDR4, 8192 MB, 64-bit, 3600 MHz
ChannelB-DIMM1 BANK 3 04CD F4-3600C15-8GTZ

0.000: Detecting usable memory (16343 MB theoretical max)...
20.766: 15744 MB Test starting on 8 CPUs...
20.781: Allocating memory...
24.375: Memory locking failed (might be reserved by other apps/kernel)
24.828: Test finished with no errors detected
0.000: Detecting usable memory (16343 MB theoretical max)...
7.937: 15744 MB Test starting on 8 CPUs...
7.953: Allocating memory...
13.719: Starting loop 1


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> And what has led you to believe that? Is it the time between loops? The first loops take more than 70 seconds and the period must get shorter as the tests go on for reasons beyond me.
> 
> Paint opened slower than normal after 10 hours of the test so it seemed to have saturated everything and was forced to use the page-file.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Module 0:
> Empty
> Module 1:
> DDR4, 8192 MB, 64-bit, 3600 MHz
> ChannelA-DIMM1 BANK 1 04CD F4-3600C15-8GTZ
> Module 2:
> Empty
> Module 3:
> DDR4, 8192 MB, 64-bit, 3600 MHz
> ChannelB-DIMM1 BANK 3 04CD F4-3600C15-8GTZ
> 
> 0.000: Detecting usable memory (16343 MB theoretical max)...
> 20.766: 15744 MB Test starting on 8 CPUs...
> 20.781: Allocating memory...
> 24.375: Memory locking failed (might be reserved by other apps/kernel)
> 24.828: Test finished with no errors detected
> 0.000: Detecting usable memory (16343 MB theoretical max)...
> 7.937: 15744 MB Test starting on 8 CPUs...
> 7.953: Allocating memory...
> 13.719: Starting loop 1


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> And what has led you to believe that? Is it the time between loops? The first loops take more than 70 seconds and the period must get shorter as the tests go on for reasons beyond me.
> 
> Paint opened slower than normal after 10 hours of the test so it seemed to have saturated everything and was forced to use the page-file.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Module 0:
> Empty
> Module 1:
> DDR4, 8192 MB, 64-bit, 3600 MHz
> ChannelA-DIMM1 BANK 1 04CD F4-3600C15-8GTZ
> Module 2:
> Empty
> Module 3:
> DDR4, 8192 MB, 64-bit, 3600 MHz
> ChannelB-DIMM1 BANK 3 04CD F4-3600C15-8GTZ
> 
> 0.000: Detecting usable memory (16343 MB theoretical max)...
> 20.766: 15744 MB Test starting on 8 CPUs...
> 20.781: Allocating memory...
> 24.375: Memory locking failed (might be reserved by other apps/kernel)
> 24.828: Test finished with no errors detected
> 0.000: Detecting usable memory (16343 MB theoretical max)...
> 7.937: 15744 MB Test starting on 8 CPUs...
> 7.953: Allocating memory...
> 13.719: Starting loop 1


OK, but I do see where the interval got shorter...in my experience, the interval stays approximately the same, although I have only run it for 4-1/2 hours. Maybe I need to do a 10 hour run like you and see if it changes?

And, the application is supposed to use the pagefile for running apps so that it can test all available memory (try it with no pagefile).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> I believe you might find it is not actually testing all the memory.
> 
> When it first starts, it will say how much memory it is testing.


It's not difficult to see how much is being allocated.

Nobody with an ounce of sense will simply run one loop, so how long it takes to complete is irrelevant. What test is more stringent with memory within a given time period is really all that matters here.

As already said, the test isn't ready so no point discussing it till it's reliable. You can discuss it here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1628474/tpu-techpowerup-announces-memtest64-test-memory-from-within-windows/0_40


----------



## Arctucas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's not difficult to see how much is being allocated.


As I stated.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nobody with an ounce of sense will simply run one loop, so how long it takes to complete is irrelevant. What test is more stringent with memory within a given time period is really all that matters here.


More memory tested = more time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> As already said, the test isn't ready so no point discussing it till it's reliable. You can discuss it here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1628474/tpu-techpowerup-announces-memtest64-test-memory-from-within-windows/0_40


Agreed.

Thank you for pointing out the other thread, posting there.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arctucas*
> 
> As I stated.
> More memory tested = more time.
> Agreed.


Even less sense would be required to test with one application and then remove memory from the system to test with another.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> Some testing @ low volts with the TridentZ 3600c15 kit , I got apart from 3600c15 @ 1.36 vram on bios (like xmp), 3866c16 @ 1.37vram on bios and 4000c17 @ same (1.37vram bios)... 300%+ on memtest 5
> 
> 
> 
> FedericoUY -- 4000 17-17-17-42-2T -- 1.37V (bios), SA 1.15v, IO 1.15v


Minimum coverage for 16GB densities is 400% in HCI


----------



## FedericoUY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Minimum coverage for 16GB densities is 400% in HCI


Ok I'll go with this one, that I have with more than 500%

FedericoUY -- 4133 17-17-17-38-1T -- 1.375V (bios), SA 1.15v, IO 1.15v


----------



## Silent Scone

Thanks









Again, nice chip


----------



## moorhen2

@ Silent Scone, thanks for adding my submision to the charts, but you have added me to the 8-16 gig chart, should be 32 gig.


----------



## Silent Scone

No worries


----------



## moorhen2

This kit seems to scale quite well, 1.420v, lets see what happens.


----------



## FedericoUY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, nice chip


Thanks again man! I'll try that same config but with 1.125v sa and io, as I use it with 3600 15-15-15-35 1t. I think is capable... This chip asks so low volts of IMC to work at high freqs. I did 4266 at 1.15 io.
Only missing some high volts testing to check if the ram kit goes to 4133 @ low latencies...
Cheers!


----------



## mus1mus

OT:

Someone in Asus may have failed his PCB assembly course or have put his annoyance to this poor board.


----------



## becks

@Silent Scone In regards to my submission here:


Spoiler: Submission



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> becks -- 3733 16-16-16-28-CR1 -- 1.395V (bios), SA 1.13750 v, VCCIO 1.08750, PCH 1.0250, Core 5.1/ Uncore 5.1 1.360 v
> 
> Stressapptest 2h






SA is *1.13* not 1.37 can you please rectify the Table on first page..
Was going trough all 431 pages of this tread to figure out where I can shoot next or whats in margin of error expected out of my little m-itx board and ram and made me jump when I saw it.
Is it still relevant to Z170 platform that generally SA over 1.3 is lethal ? or it only applies to AMD ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> @Silent Scone In regards to my submission here:
> 
> SA is *1.13* not 1.37 can you please rectify the Table on first page..
> Was going trough all 431 pages of this tread to figure out where I can shoot next or whats in margin of error expected out of my little m-itx board and ram and made me jump when I saw it.
> Is it still relevant to Z170 platform that generally SA over 1.3 is lethal ? or it only applies to AMD ?


over 1.3 is certainly not recommended


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> over 1.3 is certainly not recommended


Thank you for the confirmation... will keep on investigating what's considered safe and what not
Will post some more results when I get under water as I can't really cool the DRAM at the moment due to the beefy Noctua D14 cooler..
But for 24/7 I think I will stay where I am now...
If I either go higher freq / cas ( 3800/C17 or 4133/C17-18) or lower freq / cas (3600/C15-14 or 3200/C12) my aida score goes down the drain.
I get more Read/Write but way less Copy and higher latency....
But where is the balance ? is it better to aim for high Read/Write or aim like I did for something more equal between each other...?

For daily use....gaming, foto/video editing once in a while, browsing the internet...the usual.


----------



## Silent Scone

3600 with tight subs is a nice balance on that platform. I wouldn't worry too much about cooling, the modules do not get hot enough (unless in a hot climate). If active cooling has a notable impact on the stability it's normally a red herring or the memory is being pushed too far to be unconditionally stable


----------



## FedericoUY

One more try

FedericoUY -- 4133 17-17-17-37-1T -- 1.375V, SA 1.125v, IO 1.125v (bios)


Please add me with this one...


----------



## mus1mus

Retuned.
6900K
RVE
TridentZ 3200 C14

3466 14-14-14-34-1T @ 1.45V
VCCSA - 1.1V




2000%?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Retuned.
> 6900K
> RVE
> TridentZ 3200 C14
> 
> 3466 14-14-14-34-1T @ 1.45V
> VCCSA - 1.1V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2000%?


That's using BCLK ? very impressive... could you post aida64 bench score please ?


----------



## mus1mus

100 BCLK. No need to tweak further. Just VDIMM to 1.45V


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Retuned.
> 6900K
> RVE
> TridentZ 3200 C14
> 
> 3466 14-14-14-34-1T @ 1.45V
> VCCSA - 1.1V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2000%?


Nice result


----------



## mus1mus

Thanks man. I won't mind it placed on the OBSCURE list.









Edit: still running btw. @1500ish%


----------



## Silent Scone

You've got a driver update.


----------



## mus1mus

And an unlicensed copy of W10.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Retuned.
> 6900K
> RVE
> TridentZ 3200 C14
> 
> 3466 14-14-14-34-1T @ 1.45V
> VCCSA - 1.1V
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2000%?


sweet.


----------



## FedericoUY

Nice, but more than 2000%? I think there are stable...


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> Nice, but more than 2000%? I think there are stable...


I have an issue a while ago where it craps out past 400%. Did some retuning and for confidence, I just let it burn.







In case timings drift.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> And an unlicensed copy of W10.


Aaahh, the thrill of the forbidden!


----------



## FedericoUY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> I have an issue a while ago where it craps out past 400%. Did some retuning and for confidence, I just let it burn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In case timings drift.


That sounds real then. I never had an (hci memtest) error past 400%. The maximum % error I had was in the lower 300, so for my platform I now consider up to 500% is totally stable... Left a couple of cases to 900 or 1000 and nothing happened, just wasted time


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Aaahh, the thrill of the forbidden!


Don't worry. I have legit serial keys. But I don't insert one a testing scheme with several reinstallations foreseen.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> That sounds real then. I never had an error past 400%. The maximum % error I had was in the lower 300, so for my platform I now consider up to 500% is totally stable... Left a couple of cases to 900 or 1000 and nothing happened, just wasted time


When you're after 24/7 stability, no such thing as "wasted time". Down time = loss.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> That sounds real then. I never had an error past 400%. The maximum % error I had was in the lower 300, so for my platform I now consider up to 500% is totally stable... Left a couple of cases to 900 or 1000 and nothing happened, just wasted time


Push them chips harder! I've seen errors pop up only after 1000. And they weren't meaningless because I would crash browsing the web or gaming about once a week or 2.


----------



## FedericoUY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Push them chips harder! I've seen errors pop up only after 1000. And they weren't meaningless because I would crash browsing the web or gaming about once a week or 2.


For my 24/7 setup I've set 1000% memtest at 3600 15-15-15-35 1t @ 1.36v. That's the only setup I've pushed that hard. For testing, for me... 500% it's more than enough. I've NEVER had a issue (memory related, windows games or anything) with a 300% stable memtest...
Anyway people who loves the stability should be 1000% stable. I've got that way only for my 24/7 setup...
Cheers.


----------



## mus1mus

You guys are very lucky with those 7700Ks. I have tried to bin 10 and came up with nothing spectacular except for one that is doing 100C on the cores with just 1.25V on an AIO.


----------



## KamraK

Hi

Can u guy's explain to me why some of you using PCH Core Voltage more then 1.0v to 1.05v. It's help's in something that i don't know ?

Right now i have 4133 MHz Cl16-17-17-36-360-1T profile for 24/7 full stable.

If i increase PCH core voltage to 1.05v like some of you, it's a chance i will be able to reduce SA -1.2375 or IO-1.20 voltage ?

I have my APEX motherboard just 1 week and i'm still learning please help me understand what PCH core voltage is and in what it helps.

Thanks.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Push them chips harder! I've seen errors pop up only after 1000. And they weren't meaningless because I would crash browsing the web or gaming about once a week or 2.


HCI consider 1000% to be the golden standard for the test. However, it's possible to get errors after this. Beyond that, it's down to the user how long they think they need to run the test for. This is where Stress App picks up the slack, as it's far quicker at finding errors than the former


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> HCI consider 1000% to be the golden standard for the test. However, it's possible to get errors after this. Beyond that, it's down to the user how long they think they need to run the test for. This is where Stress App picks up the slack, as it's far quicker at finding errors than the former


Worth mentioning that GSAT can also find errors well after the 1 hour mark too, I've had errors pop up after 6 hours in a temperature controlled environment. GSAT is definitely faster at finding errors, and isolates RAM more than HCI.

Does anyone know what the "equivalent" duration of GSAT is to percentage of HCI?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Worth mentioning that GSAT can also find errors well after the 1 hour mark too, I've had errors pop up after 6 hours in a temperature controlled environment. GSAT is definitely faster at finding errors, and isolates RAM more than HCI.
> 
> Does anyone know what the "equivalent" duration of GSAT is to percentage of HCI?


2h is roughly 800%-1000% Hci from what I see


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Worth mentioning that GSAT can also find errors well after the 1 hour mark too, I've had errors pop up after 6 hours in a temperature controlled environment. GSAT is definitely faster at finding errors, and isolates RAM more than HCI.
> 
> Does anyone know what the "equivalent" duration of GSAT is to percentage of HCI?
> 
> 
> 
> 2h is roughly 800%-1000% Hci from what I see
Click to expand...

Depends on the platform. My 2000% went for like 6 or 7 hours on X99.

I also have a setting that went for 6 hours before the errors popped up in GSAT. Probably just a couple of timings that forced the drifts. Changed tRTP and TWR from 4 and 8 to 6 and 12 respectively to pass 2000% HCI.


----------



## Kimir

With the old HCI or newest and fastest one?


----------



## mus1mus

NEWEST and FASTEST one I suppose


----------



## arrow0309

How come with my newest OC setup (4.4, cache 37, default ram 3200 cl14) it tooks 7-8h for a 1000% coverage in Hci 5.0 (14x2048 Mb)?


----------



## mus1mus

Larger RAM per instance = longer test with same coverage.


----------



## Enterprise24

Can anyone tell me that this is memory instability or cache relate ? 1 error at 330% Thanks in advance.

VCORE 1.365V set 1.344V actual
VCCIO 1.225V set 1.248V actual
VCCSA 1.275V set 1.296V actual
VDIMM 1.45V set 1.48V actual


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Can anyone tell me that this is memory instability or cache relate ? 1 error at 330% Thanks in advance.
> 
> VCORE 1.365V set 1.344V actual
> VCCIO 1.225V set 1.248V actual
> VCCSA 1.275V set 1.296V actual
> VDIMM 1.45V set 1.48V actual


Was getting the same with my settup..for me it was more VDIMM needed. and / or a combination of to much / not enough V on VCCCSA / VCCIO
Go back a couple of pages and see my initial post where I got 1 error than the last post where I submitted my entry and see the differences.

At work at the moment and can't really go back and check them myself


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Can anyone tell me that this is memory instability or cache relate ? 1 error at 330% Thanks in advance.
> 
> VCORE 1.365V set 1.344V actual
> VCCIO 1.225V set 1.248V actual
> VCCSA 1.275V set 1.296V actual
> VDIMM 1.45V set 1.48V actual


Set Twr and Tfaw to 24 and see if you can get that stable first. You can then work on lowering them after if your anal about it.


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Was getting the same with my settup..for me it was more VDIMM needed. and / or a combination of to much / not enough V on VCCCSA / VCCIO
> Go back a couple of pages and see my initial post where I got 1 error than the last post where I submitted my entry and see the differences.
> 
> At work at the moment and can't really go back and check them myself


Thanks I just try more vdimm. If it still fail will try adjust io/sa later.


----------



## FedericoUY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Can anyone tell me that this is memory instability or cache relate ? 1 error at 330% Thanks in advance.
> 
> VCORE 1.365V set 1.344V actual
> VCCIO 1.225V set 1.248V actual
> VCCSA 1.275V set 1.296V actual
> VDIMM 1.45V set 1.48V actual


I, before giving a notch more of vdimm, would try to relax tRAS and tRFC to about 38 and 420... Then give memtest another shot...


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Set Twr and Tfaw to 24 and see if you can get that stable first. You can then work on lowering them after if your anal about it.


Thanks for suggestion. I will try it


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Can anyone tell me that this is memory instability or cache relate ? 1 error at 330% Thanks in advance.
> 
> VCORE 1.365V set 1.344V actual
> VCCIO 1.225V set 1.248V actual
> VCCSA 1.275V set 1.296V actual
> VDIMM 1.45V set 1.48V actual
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


tRAS is too low. tRAS=CAS+tRCD+tRRP (+/-2) so 28 is too low and this causes the value to be set aribtrarly during POST to correct the timing error - and the corrected value is not shown by any OS software. The RAS window needs to be open long enough for all three operations to take place. You also have trp and faw (faw = 4x tRDD) set too low for cas being that high. ANd because of this the RTLs and IOLs are not aligned properly.

did you set those secondaries manually?


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> tRAS is too low. tRAS=CAS+tRCD+tRRP (+/-2) so 28 is too low and this causes the value to be set aribtrarly during POST to correct the timing error - and the corrected value is not shown by any OS software. The RAS window needs to be open long enough for all three operations to take place. You also have trp and faw (faw = 4x tRDD) set too low for cas being that high. ANd because of this the RTLs and IOLs are not aligned properly.
> 
> did you set those secondaries manually?


Yes I set everything manually primary secondary tertiary / advanced timing. I think advanced timing (bank rank structure) has major impact on stability. If I set them auto sometime after "new" training like changing from default UEFI to 4200Mhz profile will cause memtest to throw error very early. So I lock them after seeing that it survive 300% hci.

But for small error like this I will try relax timing like many people said. Just try upping VDIMM to 1.46V (1.488V in hwinfo64) but get error at 310%. So this is incorrect timing rather than voltage or cache instability right ?


----------



## Enterprise24

So overall that I must change.

TRAS = 38
TRFC = 420
TWR = 24
TFAW = 24
TRTP = 12 ??? or else...


----------



## Enterprise24

Is this ok ? I will give it another shot now !!



Something must be incorrect.....


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Is this ok ? I will give it another shot now !!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something must be incorrect.....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


tFAW should = 4x tRRD(s). so at least 16. one error that far out could be cache. You should run HCI with one instance per thread. for your I5 that means 4 instances since it does not have hyperthreading.


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> tFAW should = 4x tRRD(s). so at least 16. one error that far out could be cache. You should run HCI with one instance per thread. for your I5 that means 4 instances since it does not have hyperthreading.


I cannot set memtest to run 2000+ mb per thread. If I set 4 instances then it will only cover 50% of 16gb...


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> I cannot set memtest to run 2000+ mb per thread. If I set 4 instances then it will only cover 50% of 16gb...


Use GSAT, it's free, set and go, and is faster.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> I cannot set memtest to run 2000+ mb per thread. If I set 4 instances then it will only cover 50% of 16gb...


yeah - gsat is best.

are you using the Pro version of HCi memtest?


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - gsat is best.
> 
> are you using the Pro version of HCi memtest?


I have both free and pro but pro will not allow more than ~2000mb per instance like free version. Look like it is windows limitation (win 10 x64).


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Can anyone tell me that this is memory instability or cache relate ? 1 error at 330% Thanks in advance.
> 
> VCORE 1.365V set 1.344V actual
> VCCIO 1.225V set 1.248V actual
> VCCSA 1.275V set 1.296V actual
> VDIMM 1.45V set 1.48V actual
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tRAS is too low. tRAS=CAS+tRCD+tRRP (+/-2) so 28 is too low and this causes the value to be set aribtrarly during POST to correct the timing error - and the corrected value is not shown by any OS software. The RAS window needs to be open long enough for all three operations to take place. You also have trp and faw (faw = 4x tRDD) set too low for cas being that high. ANd because of this the RTLs and IOLs are not aligned properly.
> 
> did you set those secondaries manually?
Click to expand...

Hi Enterprise24, I believe Jpmboy meant tRAS=CAS+tRCD+tR*T*P (+/-2)
At your old settings with tRTP originally at 6
I think he meant minimum was 17-18-18-39-2T instead of 28 which was too low

Edited


----------



## Frosted racquet

I need a little help with the timings. Are there any mistakes with these settings when it comes to the recommendations/formulas?


I've previously had 15-15-15-*35* 1T with tRTP 10 which passed 2000+% MemTest and 8h GSAT, but as I've seen here the minimum for tRAS is 38.
tFAW should be 20 instead of 33 in my case? Anything else I need to change?
My RAM is Kingston HX424C12SBK2/16 with Hynix chips.
Is it weird that I've passed MemTest and GSAT with the previous incorrect settings?


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> I need a little help with the timings. Are there any mistakes with these settings when it comes to the recommendations/formulas?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've previously had 15-15-15-*35* 1T with tRTP 10 which passed 2000+% MemTest and 8h GSAT, but as I've seen here the minimum for tRAS is 38.
> tFAW should be 20 instead of 33 in my case? Anything else I need to change?
> My RAM is Kingston HX424C12SBK2/16 with Hynix chips.
> Is it weird that I've passed MemTest and GSAT with the previous incorrect settings?


Regarding tRAS you may want to read the discussion before & after this post,
http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3750#post_25801780

Of course most of it is beyond me, but hopefully it is helpful to you


----------



## Frosted racquet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Regarding tRAS you may want to read the discussion before & after this post,
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-ddr4-z170-z270-and-x99-24-7-memory-stability-thread/3750#post_25801780
> 
> *Of course most of it is beyond me*, but hopefully it is helpful to you


You're not alone








Thanks for the link. That takes care of tRAS.
What about the rest of the settings?


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> I need a little help with the timings. Are there any mistakes with these settings when it comes to the recommendations/formulas?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've previously had 15-15-15-*35* 1T with tRTP 10 which passed 2000+% MemTest and 8h GSAT, but as I've seen here the minimum for tRAS is 38.
> tFAW should be 20 instead of 33 in my case? Anything else I need to change?
> My RAM is Kingston HX424C12SBK2/16 with Hynix chips.
> Is it weird that I've passed MemTest and GSAT with the previous incorrect settings?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> You're not alone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link. That takes care of tRAS.
> What about the rest of the settings?


Hi, it's best to refer to the experts' posts for guidance








Eg, tFAW min is 4X tRRD_S

So if you want to lower tFAW, I guess you shouldn't go below 20 at current setting tRRD_S = 5?
I probably can't comment further on other settings as I'm likely in the same boat as you


----------



## misoonigiri

-Deleted, not applicable-


----------



## ssateneth

I think I've crushed the sudden power shut off issue that has been plagueing my system since i got the new CPU back from Intel (which, by the way, is a VERY good chip). Unfortunately, ~3250MHz on the RAM is about as high as the IMC will go.

Some preliminary stats.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> I think I've crushed the sudden power shut off issue that has been plagueing my system since i got the new CPU back from Intel (which, by the way, is a VERY good chip). Unfortunately, ~3250MHz on the RAM is about as high as the IMC will go.
> 
> Some preliminary stats.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


It's not the IMC. Try 125 strap and you can do 3333.









Very nice chip there. TFAW and TCWL can be set lower too.


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> It's not the IMC. Try 125 strap and you can do 3333.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice chip there. TFAW and TCWL can be set lower too.


Believe me, I've tried. I fought with this chip a lot to get -anything- higher than 3200. Strap 125 doesnt play well. Always gets stuck on code BD. If I try to 'trick' it by decreasing BCLK to 120 so its 3200MHz then increase it to 125 after the fact, it gets to BF. It's not a broadwell chip, so I've accepted 3200 for now. If I give in to intel for an X299 setup, I'm sure I'll get closer to or meet the rated 3600MHz this kit claims to meet.

SA is already 1.15v (needs a minimum of 0.925, or +0.1v, to not cause freezes at everything default, RAM 3200 1.35v 16-18-18-38-2T everything else auto)
VCCIO already up to 1.2v
Cache already up to 1.3v (needs a minimum of 1.025v to not cause freezes as the same setting as SA minimum)

3200MHz RAM @ 1.35v 16-18-18-38-2T and 4.7GHz 1.3v core / 3.0GHz Cache needs a minimum of 1.025v on cache and 0.925v on SA to be 12 hour GSAT stable. I'm working on getting higher VDIMM voltage stable right now. I havent gotten 1.5VDIMM stable yet; threw 3 errors over 12 hour GSAT with grossly inflated cache, SA, and VCCIO voltages. Once I get a higher VDIMM set though, I believe I can work on getting timings down


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Believe me, I've tried. I fought with this chip a lot to get -anything- higher than 3200. Strap 125 doesnt play well. Always gets stuck on code BD. If I try to 'trick' it by decreasing BCLK to 120 so its 3200MHz then increase it to 125 after the fact, it gets to BF. It's not a broadwell chip, so I've accepted 3200 for now. If I give in to intel for an X299 setup, I'm sure I'll get closer to or meet the rated 3600MHz this kit claims to meet.
> 
> SA is already 1.15v (needs a minimum of 0.925, or +0.1v, to not cause freezes at everything default, RAM 3200 1.35v 16-18-18-38-2T everything else auto)
> VCCIO already up to 1.2v
> Cache already up to 1.3v (needs a minimum of 1.025v to not cause freezes as the same setting as SA minimum)
> 
> 3200MHz RAM @ 1.35v 16-18-18-38-2T and 4.7GHz 1.3v core / 3.0GHz Cache needs a minimum of 1.025v on cache and 0.925v on SA to be 12 hour GSAT stable. I'm working on getting higher VDIMM voltage stable right now. I havent gotten 1.5VDIMM stable yet; threw 3 errors over 12 hour GSAT with grossly inflated cache, SA, and VCCIO voltages. Once I get a higher VDIMM set though, I believe I can work on getting timings down


I have tried 7 5930Ks and none of them had an issue with 3333.









Try this:

Set Strap to 125
Set DRAM to BCLK ratio to 100:133
Set 3333
Set Timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Hi Enterprise24, I believe Jpmboy meant tRAS=CAS+tRCD+tR*T*P (+/-2)
> At your old settings with tRTP originally at 6
> I think he meant minimum was 17-18-18-39-2T instead of 28 which was too low
> 
> Edited


yes.. sorry. a bad typo. tRTP, not tRRD
Thanks! +1


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> I have tried 7 5930Ks and none of them had an issue with 3333.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this:
> 
> Set Strap to 125
> Set DRAM to BCLK ratio to 100:133
> Set 3333
> Set Timings.


Huh. I thought this was magic; It posted. I wanted to see how far I could go. 3666 was no post. Adjusted BCLK to make it a nice 3400. I was running some high cache clocks so there was some weirdness (blue screens, etc). But after a 3rd restart, I can no longer use those settings you posted; it just gets stuck on BD POST code. Any suggestions for voltages? I cant remember what settings I used. On hindsight, i shouldve saved the settings as an OC profile.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Huh. I thought this was magic; It posted. I wanted to see how far I could go. 3666 was no post. Adjusted BCLK to make it a nice 3400. I was running some high cache clocks so there was some weirdness (blue screens, etc). But after a 3rd restart, I can no longer use those settings you posted; it just gets stuck on BD POST code. Any suggestions for voltages? I cant remember what settings I used. On hindsight, i shouldve saved the settings as an OC profile.


Don't stray off 125 BCLK. If you want it higher, try Strap 167.

167 Strap
BCLK to RAM Ratio: 100:133
RAM Frequency: 3555

emulate the one in my sig if you can. But remember, that is already boardering on the platform limitation. Always aim to be within defined BCLK strap.

Again, keep it realistic.


----------



## czin125

http://forum.hwbot.org/showpost.php?p=483729&postcount=196

It seems like the non RGB are slightly better than the RGB versions.


----------



## mus1mus

Ohhh. The RGB ones.









https://youtu.be/ARfK-YLaPZo


----------



## Enterprise24

After spending time reading some pages in this thread I think I just find my problem. I will try to explain as clear as possible. Sorry for my bad English. It's not my native language.

My setup is...
i5-6500 @ 4.8Ghz
ASRock Z170 OC Formula BIOS 7.40
2x8GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600Mhz CL17-18-18-38

Look like my memory is on the edge of stability. 4200Mhz 17-18-18-28 1.45V IO 1.25V SA 1.3V HCI one error at 330%. After I change some timing like TRAS 28-> 38 , TRFC 350 -> 420 , TWR 10 -> 24 , TRTP 6->12 , TFAW 16->24. HCI quickly throw error at 3% and after I back to my previous timing (that survive HCI 330%) it is no longer rock solid. It just throw error very early.

MRC fastboot is disable since I read on HWBot that disable is mostly better. But I find someone mention in this thread that MRC fastboot disable will force memory to retrain every reboot and sometime training will drift and can cause instability when memory is on the edge. So I need to go back to my previous setting. Change some timing that look stupid like TRAS 28->38 and probably a little more relax on TRFC and leave MRC fastboot enable and try HCI until it can pass my own record at 330%. If it throw error early then change some timing then reboot then back to previous timing and running HCI again.

Can someone tell me that MRC fastboot enable will not retrain memory if I DON'T change any timing ? I find someone mention that temperature and some other factor can still cause retrain (thus kill my stable setting). Thanks in advance.

Do you think that what is on the edge of stability ? IMC or motherboard or RAM ? Actually I can boot up to 4060Mhz after that I need to adjust all slope setting and slope offset to 15-1 until 4133Mhz. At 4167Mhz is hit or miss mostly can boot but sometime don't. At 4200Mhz I need to set boot failure guard to 10 to ensure that one out of ten will lucky enough to boot. 4200+ never boot. MB just produce 4C-00-19 loop everytime. But I can push more in Windows. eg. 4266 for short benching and 4300 for AIDA 64 and screen capture.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showpost.php?p=483729&postcount=196
> 
> It seems like the non RGB are slightly better than the RGB versions.


same experience here with the new 4266c19 2x8GB kits compared to 3600c15 and c16. thing to realize is that were talking running 4000c12-11-11-28-1T and higher/tighter at 1.9V. This ability to scale at that voltage reflects little about performance closer to the spec range.


----------



## RemiKo

RemiKo--i77700K @5.2/4.5---4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----1.40v---SA 1.25v IO-1.225v---HCI 1000%

Using Asus Z270 APEX 0906 BIOS and G.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GVK


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RemiKo*
> 
> RemiKo--i77700K @5.2/4.5---4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----1.40v---SA 1.25v IO-1.225v---HCI 1000%
> 
> Using Asus Z270 APEX 0906 BIOS and G.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GVK
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice result, thanks for sharing


----------



## EDK-TheONE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RemiKo*
> 
> RemiKo--i77700K @5.2/4.5---4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----1.40v---SA 1.25v IO-1.225v---HCI 1000%
> 
> Using Asus Z270 APEX 0906 BIOS and G.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GVK
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Epic CPU! what's batch#?


----------



## RemiKo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EDK-TheONE*
> 
> Epic CPU! what's batch#?


L643G558









It is possible even 5.3GHz with AVX multiplier x51 on ~1.42v:



Air cooling


----------



## EDK-TheONE

What's your cooling, delided or not!??


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RemiKo*
> 
> L643G558
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is possible even 5.3GHz with AVX multiplier x51 on ~1.42v:
> 
> 
> 
> Air cooling


linX will only use AVX, so 5.1 is certainly possible.









*Note*: On the Apex - once you go above 5.2GHz, be sure to check the Standby voltage in bios, and PLL Bandwidth. These will Auto up to 1.6V on bios 0906. The chip probably only needs 1.2-1.3V stanbby (called "sustain" in AID64) and PLL bandwidth (in Tweaker's Paradise) of 4 or 5.. or even 2 should be enough. For 5.3/4.8 on this Apex/7700K Standby is at 1.12V, PLL bandwidth at 0.

5.3a5.1c4.8 @ 1.328V 5 loops linpac V Standby = 1.12, PLL Bandwidth = 0


----------



## RemiKo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EDK-TheONE*
> 
> What's your cooling, delided or not!??


Delided with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut, and cooled by Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> On the Apex - once you go above 5.2GHz, be sure to check the Standby voltage in bios, and PLL Bandwidth. These will Auto up to 1.6V on bios 0906. The chip probably only needs 1.2-1.3V stanbby (called "sustain" in AID64) and PLL bandwidth (in Tweaker's Paradise) of 4 or 5.. or even 2 should be enough.


You're right. At the beginning of my adventure with 7700K, I had set Auto on Standby voltage and give me ~1.336V. Currently I have manualy set it to 1.0V, and everything is working perfectly.

What's the difference between PLL bandwidth set to Auto, 0, 2 or 5 with no BCLK overclocking? I have set to 0 right now.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RemiKo*
> 
> Delided with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut, and cooled by Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme.
> You're right. At the beginning of my adventure with 7700K, I had set Auto on Standby voltage and give me ~1.336V. Currently I have manualy set it to 1.0V, and everything is working perfectly.
> 
> What's the difference between PLL bandwidth set to Auto, 0, 2 or 5 with no BCLK overclocking? I have set to 0 right now.


It increases the "PLL OC" voltage as reported by HWi. Intended to help stabilize the phase lock. You'll know when the SB voltage is too low... system will either fail to boot or freeze. no big deal, just increase it slightly.


----------



## RemiKo

RemiKo--i77700K @5.2/4.8---4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----1.40v---SA 1.2375v IO-1.225v---HCI 500%



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Enterprise24

Please add me.







all voltage is actual (read from HWinfo64).

Enterprise24--i5-6500 @5.0/5.0---4167Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.48v---SA 1.32v---IO 1.272V---HCI 1400%


----------



## becks

Just a quick preview of what I am working on now...


----------



## needh3lp

Got a noob question for you guys...









I've got my 7700k core overclock prime/realbench stable at [email protected] Now I'm trying to get my ram (3600mhz cl16) running at xmp settings, but I've noticed xmp ramps up my IO and SA voltages to stupid high levels (1.4+ on SA!). I know enough to know this is too high and I'll need to tweak things. My plan is to start at IO ~1.15 and SA ~1.20 and test.

But here's my noob question; what stability test should I be using to test my IO and SA settings? GSAT? HCI Memtest? Realbench? How do I know if I've set my voltages correctly?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *needh3lp*
> 
> Got a noob question for you guys...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got my 7700k core overclock prime/realbench stable at [email protected] Now I'm trying to get my ram (3600mhz cl16) running at xmp settings, but I've noticed xmp ramps up my IO and SA voltages to stupid high levels (1.4+ on SA!). I know enough to know this is too high and I'll need to tweak things. My plan is to start at IO ~1.15 and SA ~1.20 and test.
> 
> But here's my noob question; what stability test should I be using to test my IO and SA settings? GSAT? HCI Memtest? Realbench? How do I know if I've set my voltages correctly?


Test with GSAT primarily


----------



## becks

Who can shed some light on memory scalability on higher V and / or timings / freq ?..

Can boot / test 3733 @ 1.395 16 16 16 28 1t
Can boot / test 3733 @ 1.415 15 15 15 28 1t

If I go beyond this and try 3866 or anything in between 3733 and 4133 memory starts playing funny..

3866 @ 1.425 15 15 15 30 1t can boot ca not test (Fail GSAT)...i think to myself oky...more volts...
3866 @ 1.435 15 15 15 30 1t ...code 3F (Oky....maybe more volts)
[email protected] 1.445 15 15 15 30 1t ... code 26 (Almost there)
....................
[email protected] 1.465 15 15 15 30 1t ... code 55
[email protected] 1.475 15 15 15 30 1t ... code 55

same for PCH / SA / VCCIO / PL.... tried over 200 combinations....

Is it a problem with scalability or there are other limiting factors ? can someone please elaborate....

EDIT: My logic is that more V could stabilise OC settings...but for this particular case it seems I can only obtain a mere Bench run at certain volts and giving any more is just does worse..


----------



## needh3lp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Test with GSAT primarily


Thank you.

I was able to successfully pass an hour of GSAT and 1900% coverage of HCI with my first attempt at IO (1.168) and SA (1.208) tweaking so I think I'm good to go. I'm not trying to break any records, just have a stable mild 24/7 overclock.

However, this thread has got me curious at trying to push my ram beyond xmp settings so I might take a stab at that now that I have stable settings I can fall back on.


----------



## baradiel

Hi everyone, I am brand new to this site and I am looking for some info regarding my RAM.

PC Specs:

CPU: Intel Core i5 6600K 4.6 GHZ
GPU: Nvidia GTX 760 SC 4GB
MoBo: Asus Z170-AR
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 4x4GB 2666 MHZ
PSU: Corsair TX 750 Watt

Timings right now are sitting at 13-13-13-32 1T and tRFC is at 270. Volts are at 1.4.

My RAM are sitting at 2666 MHZ for now because I've seen videos where lowering the timings and leaving it at low MHZ is better than having it at 3000 MHZ. I tested the RAM with MemTest86 for 2 hours and it found 2 errors on test 6 after 3 passes, but while heavy gaming for like 5 hrs the PC worked fine. I wanted to know if I could lower timings even more or I should stay like this?


----------



## moorhen2

Please add this one, not bad for a 32 gig 3200mhz kit.

moorhen2--i7 7700k @5.1/4.7---3866mhz--C16-16-16-36-2T---1.440v---SA 1.18000---IO 1.18000---HCI 300%


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *needh3lp*
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I was able to successfully pass an hour of GSAT and 1900% coverage of HCI with my first attempt at IO (1.168) and SA (1.208) tweaking so I think I'm good to go. I'm not trying to break any records, just have a stable mild 24/7 overclock.
> 
> However, this thread has got me curious at trying to push my ram beyond xmp settings so I might take a stab at that now that I have stable settings I can fall back on.


Have a read of the timing guide in the OP to get a grasp of the sub timings

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Please add this one, not bad for a 32 gig 3200mhz kit.
> 
> moorhen2--i7 7700k @5.1/4.7---3866mhz--C16-16-16-36-2T---1.440v---SA 1.18000---HCI 300%


----------



## CptSpig

Thanks to this thread and a little help from @Jpmboy I was able to fine tune my memory.









http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/CptSpig/media/AsRock_zpscuistlfm.png.html


----------



## djgar

Aha! New thread name - short and all-encompassing


----------



## baradiel

Does the AIDA64 Cache and Memory benchmark work as a stress test for memory overclock aswell?

Or should I keep using MemTest86?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baradiel*
> 
> Does the AIDA64 Cache and Memory benchmark work as a stress test for memory overclock aswell?
> 
> Or should I keep using MemTest86?


Use the tests in the op. AIDA is good at picking up cache instability, but for isolating memory instability use the stress tests in the opening post. Not sure why you'd come in and ask regarding memtest86 given what's laid out for you









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Aha! New thread name - short and all-encompassing


Wondering when someone would notice lol


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Wondering when someone would notice lol


notice what?


----------



## Silent Scone




----------



## tux1989

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> notice what?


*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
Yup


----------



## CptSpig

Here is my bench mark overclock with 3200MHz memory, 4.4GHz CPU and 3.6GHz Cashe. Real happy with this OC.

http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/CptSpig/media/AsRock4.4_zpsopkhynlg.png.html
http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/CptSpig/media/HCI MEMTEST_zpsrdqszouw.png.html


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Here is my bench mark overclock with 3200MHz memory, 4.4GHz CPU and 3.6GHz Cashe. Real happy with this OC.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/CptSpig/media/AsRock4.4_zpsopkhynlg.png.html
> http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/CptSpig/media/HCI MEMTEST_zpsrdqszouw.png.html


lol - damn bro - that's a very good AID64 result!








I really think those sticks could do 3400 with the same timings.. .just need a bit more voltage. What voltage is that currently running 3200 at with those timings?
And those are corsair 3200c16s? whodathought.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - damn bro - that's a very good AID64 result!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really think those sticks could do 3400 with the same timings.. .just need a bit more voltage. What voltage is that currently running 3200 at with those timings?
> And those are corsair 3200c16s? whodathought.


I have always used G.Skill in the past but this kit has been better than any of the G.Skill kits I have owned. Yes it is 16-18-18-36 CR-2. I am using 1.360v I think I will give 3400MHz a try!


----------



## Enterprise24

Another try with 4133Mhz. First got error at 60%. Then try setting On Die Termination manually solve problem for me (of course MRC fastboot enabled !!).

Enterprise24--i5-6500 @4.96/4.96---4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.48v---SA 1.32v---IO 1.272V---HCI 400%.


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice work









Looks like Corsair are trying to take advantage of the current memory price hike.
Pass.

http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/dominator-platinum-se-torque-32gb-4x8gb-ddr4-dram-3200mhz-c14-memory-kit-cmd32gx4m4c3200c14t


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Corsair are trying to take advantage of the current memory price hike.
> Pass.
> 
> http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/dominator-platinum-se-torque-32gb-4x8gb-ddr4-dram-3200mhz-c14-memory-kit-cmd32gx4m4c3200c14t


Scone and Corsair... the love affair is anew?









No AMD results - Intel only Correct?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



jpmboy [email protected] C6H, 3000c16 16GB (gskill 3600c15 kit)
Ram is really a "challange" on this platform. Initial results. rig has been up for a day. fells alot faster than default 2133.









AMD needs to work on ram, but it honestly feels alot faster than these numbers portend.


----------



## mus1mus

I still can't get mint to work with Ryzen.

With that regards, we do have access to the subtimings with AGESA 1.0.0.5a now.







on the K7 at least.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> I still can't get mint to work with Ryzen.
> 
> With that regards, we do have access to the subtimings with AGESA 1.0.0.5a now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on the K7 at least.


I did install mint 18.1 and it was running fine, but then ported this W10 install to this board. It's only been running for a day - dude, I was giddy to pass HCI at all.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Scone and Corsair... the love affair is anew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No AMD results - Intel only Correct?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> jpmboy [email protected] C6H, 3000c16 16GB (gskill 3600c15 kit)
> Ram is really a "challange" on this platform. Initial results. rig has been up for a day. fells alot faster than default 2133.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD needs to work on ram, but it honestly feels alot faster than these numbers portend.


See link in my sig


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I did install mint 18.1 and it was running fine, but then ported this W10 install to this board. It's only been running for a day - dude, I was giddy to pass HCI at all.


hmm. Must be doing something wrong.







I will need to check things out again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> See link in my sig


Didn't see this before.









Nice.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> See link in my sig


what sig?

(thanks! be right there....)


----------



## ssateneth

bah, delete


----------



## TahoeDust

So, if I want to actually manage to go 4133 with my new setup, what are the sticks to get? I was looking at these...

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232496

This will either be a Kaby Lake 7700k on a Asus Maximus IX (model to be determined) or I may wait for the Sky Lake X stuff.


----------



## wholeeo

Think I'll be sticking to 3200 for now on even though I am able to run 3600 with my sticks. I can drop IO and SA all the way down to 0.98 and 1.0 respectively, meanwhile for 3600 I have to have them in the 1.20+ ballpark. Is IO and SA a ram module related thing or is it more tied to the specific CPU utilized?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Think I'll be sticking to 3200 for now on even though I am able to run 3600 with my sticks. I can drop IO and SA all the way down to 0.98 and 1.0 respectively, meanwhile for 3600 I have to have them in the 1.20+ ballpark. Is IO and SA a ram module related thing or is it more tied to the specific CPU utilized?


A mixture of all things noted, but more on the CPU side


----------



## Enterprise24

In regards to my submission can you please rectify the Table on first page...










1.My mobo is Z170 OC Formula not MOCF.
2.4133Mhz result cache is running same as core (4.96) not 4.46.
3.I don't mind you putting my i5-6500 to Kaby Lake list.









Thanks in advance.


----------



## Silent Scone

Oops, corrected.

You're welcome, I thought it might have been a bit of consolation for having the slowest chip submitted


----------



## NIK1

I have a Asus Z270 Apex mb with a Intel i7-7700K and want to get the best memory I can for this board..I was thinking of getting G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100) Desktop Memory Model F4-4266C19D-16GTZR...Is this a good choice for the Apex board..


----------



## czin125

The R version might be slightly harder to OC as you push more and more I think. But that might just be the 4000 12-11-11 stuff...
http://forum.hwbot.org/showpost.php?p=483729&postcount=196

CMK16GX4M2E4333C19R
There's that at 19-26-26 but there's also the not yet released 4333 19-19-19 from gskill...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> I have a Asus Z270 Apex mb with a Intel i7-7700K and want to get the best memory I can for this board..I was thinking of getting G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100) Desktop Memory Model F4-4266C19D-16GTZR...Is this a good choice for the Apex board..


that kit works fine on my Apex. But 4266 requires a bclk adjustment. They run 4133 and very tight lower frequencies very well. So.. you may not want to run 4266 but it's good to know they can.









edit: oh yeah.. they will likely run the preset in the bios (from Raja)


----------



## hsypsufan

Need some help. My rig is getting some random BSOD after 2000+% coverage in HCI Memtest. It'll run for hours and hours and hours without any errors in HCI Memtest before bam, bsod. The bug check is usually DRIVER_OVERRAN_STACK_BUFFER or DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL.

Here's my rig:
6700k @ 4.7ghz, vcore 1.28v, no cache overclock
Gigabyte z170 Ultra Gaming
Corsair Vengeance® LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 Memory Kit - Black (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16)

RAM - 3200 mhz c15, 17, 17, 34, cr 2 at 1.38v, SA 1.15v, VCCIO 1.18v.

Getting really frustrated with this box. my other gaming rig is rock solid stable with RAM overclocks. I just can't seem to dial this one in. Thanks all in advance for your help.


----------



## Silent Scone

I would bump Vcore 20mv or so


----------



## Enterprise24

4266 work in progress


----------



## Enterprise24

CPU 0 is already died. BSOD everytime when loading windows form SSD HDD even usb drive with win 10 installation. All BSOD pointing toward memory but I try running memtest86+ with bootable usb drive and it say error 65535+ sometimes halting CPU-0 so I think this must be CPU issue and try booting with 1 2 and 3 active processor. All boot fine.

I will keep this triple cores CPU for a little while before sending RMA. It is an epic non K CPU.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> CPU 0 is already died. BSOD everytime when loading windows form SSD HDD even usb drive with win 10 installation. All BSOD pointing toward memory but I try running memtest86+ with bootable usb drive and it say error 65535+ sometimes halting CPU-0 so I think this must be CPU issue and try booting with 1 2 and 3 active processor. All boot fine.
> 
> I will keep this triple cores CPU for a little while before sending RMA. It is an epic non K CPU.


Oopsy. I don't think being non K would have any impact on the IMC strength. Mine was certainly ok. You've been pushing VCCSA quite high, though


----------



## kongasdf

7700k 45/42 1.12v,
Z170 OC Formula,
SA 1.17v, IO 1.19,
VDRAM 1.55v,

There's a wall blocking me when I try 4266+


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kongasdf*
> 
> 7700k 45/42 1.12v,
> Z170 OC Formula,
> SA 1.17v, IO 1.19,
> VDRAM 1.55v,
> 
> There's a wall blocking me when I try 4266+


You have to many instances open in MemTest...try with only 8 (you have 39 there..)


----------



## EDK-TheONE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kongasdf*
> 
> 7700k 45/42 1.12v,
> Z170 OC Formula,
> SA 1.17v, IO 1.19,
> VDRAM 1.55v,
> 
> There's a wall blocking me when I try 4266+


Nice. what is version of your bios?!!


----------



## Jpmboy

to my UK brothers... stay strong.


----------



## mus1mus

Damn cowards!


----------



## CptSpig

Out thoughts and prayers go out to all in Britain and to my family over there stay strong.


----------



## djgar

Truly, this absolutely sucks.What do those people expect to gain? I'm baffled and at a loss for words.


----------



## Kalpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Truly, this absolutely sucks.What do those people expect to gain? I'm baffled and at a loss for words.


Obviously there's no megahertzes to gain, indeed this defies all reason.

Now, back to the subject at hand. After much toil I've figured a stable OC config for my 4x8GB kit of DDR4 2666-15-17-17-36-2T 1.2V memory. I now run them at 2800MHz with a voltage of 1.320V. I've also adjusted the timings, managing to push the modules to 14-15-15-31-1T basic timings but I've also adjusted some secondary and tertiary timings as well.

Overall performance gains vary between 0.5% and 2% depending on benchmark application.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalpa*
> 
> Obviously there's no megahertzes to gain, indeed this defies all reason.
> ...


Apparently your CPU has no heartbeat ...


----------



## Aliover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> You have to many instances open in MemTest...try with only 8 (you have 39 there..)


so good
what is version of your bios?!!
my processor is 7600k and m.b is ASRock Z170 OC Formula
Kaby bios is goh (very bad)








Skylake Bios =4133 cl19-20-20-34-2T-1.35v stable
kabylake Bios = 4000 Cl19-20-20-36-2T-1.45v not stable


----------



## Tecchie

Sooo.. my memory bench marked bandwidth is pretty close to the advertised specs of my CPU which is 68GB/sec memory bandwidth.

But AIDA64 says I'm at 77GB/sec

But, tell me, overall are these numbers good?

I'm running a low latency G.Skill memory kit (14.14.14.34) purposely purchased. They now have faster kits at this low latency and I was thinking about upgrading it. I've always tried to run the lowest latency memory I could get my hands on at higher frequencies.

Are these numbers pretty good or average? Be honest please.


----------



## czin125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kongasdf*
> 
> 7700k 45/42 1.12v,
> Z170 OC Formula,
> SA 1.17v, IO 1.19,
> VDRAM 1.55v,
> 
> There's a wall blocking me when I try 4266+


Since you're at 1.55v, could you try 4400 CL16 ( gskill showed 4500 16-16-16-36 535 2T at 1.50v and trc at 52 at computex 2016 )


----------



## Tecchie

Wow.. I need to pay attention.. lol oops again


----------



## seven7thirty30

Few questions for you RAM pros:

i7-7700K @ 5.0/4.8 cache @ 1.38V (LLC 6)

ASUS Maximus IX Extreme (Z270)

16GB (2x8) DDR4-4266 GSkill RGB @ 3733 17-18-18-38-2T @ 1.415V (HCI 3000% stable)

VCCIO @ 1.3

SA @ 1.325

I tried to get 1T at the timings above without success. Do you think that I should keep what I have or try ramping up voltages to get tighter timings? I don't know what timings at 3733 are considered "outstanding". I just want to see what this system can do.

Temps aren't an issue for my custom water cooled loop.


----------



## Silent Scone

That kit should be good for 1T. You can try up to 1.45v VDIMM safely.

Even try lowering SA and IO rails slightly as well as trying both Tweak Modes 1 and 2 under Tweakers Paradise. Tweak Mode 2 uses tighter sub timings but can help with stability on some modules.


----------



## seven7thirty30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That kit should be good for 1T. You can try up to 1.45v VDIMM safely.
> 
> Even try lowering SA and IO rails slightly as well as trying both Tweak Modes 1 and 2 under Tweakers Paradise. Tweak Mode 2 uses tighter sub timings but can help with stability on some modules.


Thanks, I'll try this afternoon.


----------



## czin125

Wouldn't running them at 4133 CL19 be slightly better than 3733 CL17?
3000 CL12 1T had the same latency as 4000 CL17 2T in aida64
http://www.overclock.net/t/1611359/3770k-vs-6700k-in-fallout-4-arma-3-rainbow-six-siege-with-core-cache-memory-scaling-ddr3-1600c11-2133c9-ddr4-2133c15-3000c12-4000c17


----------



## EDK-TheONE

So far So good!

3200CL14 @1.6 volt


----------



## czin125

Can you actually play games on that? Just wondering.


----------



## seven7thirty30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> Wouldn't running them at 4133 CL19 be slightly better than 3733 CL17?
> 3000 CL12 1T had the same latency as 4000 CL17 2T in aida64
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1611359/3770k-vs-6700k-in-fallout-4-arma-3-rainbow-six-siege-with-core-cache-memory-scaling-ddr3-1600c11-2133c9-ddr4-2133c15-3000c12-4000c17


I'm headed that way. Working my way up. So far 3733 @ 1.42V 17-18-18-38 1T is HCI 1000% stable. I'm going to move up to 3866 then 4000, but I may hit a wall after reading that this MOBO will probably need 4 DIMMS to reach it.


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> Wouldn't running them at 4133 CL19 be slightly better than 3733 CL17?
> 3000 CL12 1T had the same latency as 4000 CL17 2T in aida64
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1611359/3770k-vs-6700k-in-fallout-4-arma-3-rainbow-six-siege-with-core-cache-memory-scaling-ddr3-1600c11-2133c9-ddr4-2133c15-3000c12-4000c17


It's not just latency that is part of the equation. Once the RAM module does all its stuff with selecting row, column, precharge, etc, then it can consecutively read a bunch of data in that area. Higher clock = higher read/write within that window.

Clock is king


----------



## seven7thirty30

Ran RealBench 8HR while away at work this morning out of curiosity with RAM at 3733 17-18-18-38-1T @ 1.42V and it passed. It also passed HCI 1000%. I increased the RAM to 3866 17-18-18-38-1T @ 1.45V and it booted into Win10. Running HCI 1000%. So far so good.

I read that the GSkill RGB RAM has problems reaching 4000. Something about the LEDs causing interference. I suspect it's the temperatures. Anyone have any input about that?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seven7thirty30*
> 
> Ran RealBench 8HR while away at work this morning out of curiosity with RAM at 3733 17-18-18-38-1T @ 1.42V and it passed. It also passed HCI 1000%. I increased the RAM to 3866 17-18-18-38-1T @ 1.45V and it booted into Win10. Running HCI 1000%. So far so good.
> 
> I read that the GSkill RGB RAM has problems reaching 4000. Something about the LEDs causing interference. I suspect it's the temperatures. Anyone have any input about that?


Not heard that one. Kits rated for those speeds should be no problem on the right platform. Sounds like a case of workmen blaming their tools.


----------



## seven7thirty30

3866 17-18-18-38-1T @ 1.47V passed HCI 1000% and 2000%, but I received 1 error at 2200%. Is that acceptable or should I tweak some timings?


----------



## Silent Scone

That's down to you. Memory errors are memory errors. If you're asking if the system is honestly stable enough, then most likely yes.


----------



## seven7thirty30

The best that I could do with this GSkill RGB set was 3866 17-18-18-38-1T @ 1.47V. I swapped them out with a GSkill non-RGB set and I was able to reach 4000 18-19-19-39 2T @ 1.53V

I couldn't get the RGB set to post at 4000 at ANY timing or voltage. Maybe I had a stubborn set or the RGB set using the SPD i2c bus to control the LEDs is causing problems. I read about this on several forums and it seems to have merit.


----------



## becks

I'm a bit bluffed of my situation here so I need some help if possible...

I was using my CPU at 5.1 with ram at 3733 : 16 16 16 28 1t
Long story short, CPU got replaced...
Now with different CPU I been trying to get 3733 ..3866 for the past week and failed even on the old profiles that I knew were stable...I know that every CPU is different so I switched it back to default.
With CPU at default settings and only OC-ing RAM I still fail every test on known working profiles...*** is going on ?!

CPU and memory on default give no error in any test...


----------



## Kalpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I'm a bit bluffed of my situation here so I need some help if possible...
> 
> I was using my CPU at 5.1 with ram at 3733 : 16 16 16 28 1t
> Long story short, CPU got replaced...
> Now with different CPU I been trying to get 3733 ..3866 for the past week and failed even on the old profiles that I knew were stable...I know that every CPU is different so I switched it back to default.
> With CPU at default settings and only OC-ing RAM I still fail every test on known working profiles...*** is going on ?!
> 
> CPU and memory on default give no error in any test...


Well I'd just assume the memory controller on your new CPU is just so much worse than previous and is unable to achieve the speeds your memory sticks may be capable of?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalpa*
> 
> Well I'd just assume the memory controller on your new CPU is just so much worse than previous and is unable to achieve the speeds your memory sticks may be capable of?


I was just thinking about that late last night ... unfortunately replacing the CPU once again would be to much to ask...even if I return it by the time it gets back I will be in my 3 week holiday...
Just being able to get to a certain level...and than not being to do that wines me to a whole new level of emotions I can't easily describe...

At least I found out that 3866 with 2t and tight timings give pretty much same values in aida test as 3733 1t so I might go that route...that's if I can stabilise it...
Will try and get the CPU replaced but I have to prepare a strong "case" will see....


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I'm a bit bluffed of my situation here so I need some help if possible...
> 
> I was using my CPU at 5.1 with ram at 3733 : 16 16 16 28 1t
> Long story short, CPU got replaced...
> Now with different CPU I been trying to get 3733 ..3866 for the past week and failed even on the old profiles that I knew were stable...I know that every CPU is different so I switched it back to default.
> With CPU at default settings and only OC-ing RAM I still fail every test on known working profiles...*** is going on ?!
> 
> CPU and memory on default give no error in any test...


You'd need to list what you've tried so far. VCCSA and IO voltages will vary from CPU to CPU at those speeds.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You'd need to list what you've tried so far. VCCSA and IO voltages will vary from CPU to CPU at those speeds.


Went up and down with all of them..V-dim, VCCSA, IO...tried pretty much any combination, some error faster, some error only around 180-200% mark..
Usually it's miscompare on CPU 2 or 3 (the error)

Sometimes if It errors and I change some settings in OS with Turbo V and pass.. when I restart and apply those in Bios to be permanent it does not pass anymore, which makes it even more frustrating...

Just passed 2h Gsat at 3733 16-16-16-28 1t with 1.395 Dram, 1.10 VCCIO, 1.15 SA but browser kept on asking me to recover tabs when closing and reopening so I restarted upped V-dim to 1.415 and running test again now..(Checked timings with Asrock timings configurator, nothing changed between resets)

Passed Gsat at 1.415... now every other test (CPU still at default) give errors ...Prime, OCCT, RB...

Reinstalling OS as we speak...


----------



## becks

nvm double post


----------



## seven7thirty30

I settled with the following;

3733: 15-15-15-35 1T @ 1.4V
CPU: i7-7700K 5.0/4.5 @ 1.35V
VCCIO: 1.3V
SA: 1.32V


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seven7thirty30*
> 
> I settled with the following;
> 
> 3733: 15-15-15-35 1T @ 1.4V
> CPU: i7-7700K 5.0/4.5 @ 1.35V
> VCCIO: 1.3V
> SA: 1.32V


Could someone shortly elaborate on the role of VCCIO in memory / OC stability? Or rather - can someone shed some light on what VCCIO controls and what part it plays?


----------



## Zaen

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong

"VCCIO: more commonly known at QPI/VTT voltage, this is the VTT voltage. Formally known as Processor Power for I/O it is the voltage for the integrated memory controller as well as the PCI-E controller." - Now days i think this is outdated and Vccsa does the voltage control I/O for PCI-E and RAM, Vccio i believe is just for the CPU.

taken from this old thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1519310/what-does-vccsa-and-vccio-actually-do

You can also check another old thread: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/266192-29-vccio-vccsa

For me, as a electronics tech, Vcc is the pin in a Integrated Circuit (IC) were i inject voltage, the IO relates to input/output.

So basically if you don't feed enough pwr (Vcc) your CPU can be unstable with some work loads which can give BSOD/H. That can also lead to bad data passing from RAM to or from cache/ CPU and also give a error or BSOD/H.

Vcc is used to identify in every IC the pwr input conection (pin) whether a CPU, Chipset, RAM, GPU, etc...


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaen*
> 
> Anyone correct me if i'm wrong
> 
> "VCCIO: more commonly known at QPI/VTT voltage, this is the VTT voltage. Formally known as Processor Power for I/O it is the voltage for the integrated memory controller as well as the PCI-E controller." - Now days i think this is outdated and Vccsa does the voltage control I/O for PCI-E and RAM, Vccio i believe is just for the CPU.
> 
> taken from this old thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1519310/what-does-vccsa-and-vccio-actually-do
> 
> You can also check another old thread: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/266192-29-vccio-vccsa
> 
> For me, as a electronics tech, Vcc is the pin in a Integrated Circuit (IC) were i inject voltage, the IO relates to input/output.
> 
> So basically if you don't feed enough pwr (Vcc) your CPU can be unstable with some work loads which can give BSOD/H. That can also lead to bad data passing from RAM to or from cache/ CPU and also give a error or BSOD/H.
> 
> Vcc is used to identify in every IC the pwr input conection (pin) whether a CPU, Chipset, RAM, GPU, etc...


Hello

There is no need to overthink this. VCCIO is the supply voltage for the I/O rails.


----------



## Zaen

Coccosoids asked for what it controls and effects on stability... so i tried to avoid details ^_^ and added some follow up reading, although old reading material









Also no one answered in almost 2 days, so... i did







I might have complicated things, i do that often, but there was a lot more that could have been said about the role of VccIO in system/memory stability.


----------



## chibi

Hi guys, working on my mem oc with GSAT (BASH







), if I see an error, is there a command to stop the test? Or do I just click the X button and restart to bios and continue to tinker? This is a lot harder than the CPU/Cache OC.


----------



## mus1mus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Hi guys, working on my mem oc with GAST (BASH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), if I see an error, is there a command to stop the test? Or do I just click the X button and restart to bios and continue to tinker? This is a lot harder than the CPU/Cache OC.


To stop GSAT, press CTRL + C.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> To stop GSAT, press CTRL + C.


Or close / cancel the terminal window with the mouse.


----------



## chibi

Thanks guys for the CTRL + C, I was just closing the terminal but wasn't sure if that was best practice method. Anyways, I'm having troubles dialing in a memory OC and was wondering if someone can spot something wrong with my settings? I initially tried 3200 C13-13-13-30-1T with all secondary and tert timmings at auto from 1.35 - 1.45 volts and it kept failing. At that point, I moved to the settings below.

GSAT was throwing a cpu miscompare at the 2000 mark during a 3600 session with the following settings:

CPU: 4400MHz - 1.325v 8hr RealBench Stable
Cache: 3600MHz - 1.20v 3hr Aida Stable
VCCSA: .055 Bios - 1.05V in Windows
Memory: 3200MHz C14-14-14-32-1T Failed
*note - I restarted right after the hardware error in gsat and upped the dram voltage to 1.42v before I took this snapshot. It failed previously at 1.41v.


Is the CPU miscompare error from GSAT and indication that my cpu overclock is unstable? If so, I may have to re-evaluate the rb session.


----------



## mus1mus

If I may,

TWR and TRTP are quite low.
Try TWR - 12 and TRTP - 6

TWTR_L at 7 is also quite a hindrance to stability. Try raising that to 8.


----------



## CL3P20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Thanks guys for the CTRL + C, I was just closing the terminal but wasn't sure if that was best practice method. Anyways, I'm having troubles dialing in a memory OC and was wondering if someone can spot something wrong with my settings? I initially tried 3200 C13-13-13-30-1T with all secondary and tert timmings at auto from 1.35 - 1.45 volts and it kept failing. At that point, I moved to the settings below.
> 
> GSAT was throwing a cpu miscompare at the 2000 mark during a 3600 session with the following settings:
> 
> CPU: 4400MHz - 1.325v 8hr RealBench Stable
> Cache: 3600MHz - 1.20v 3hr Aida Stable
> VCCSA: .055 Bios - 1.05V in Windows
> Memory: 3200MHz C14-14-14-32-1T Failed
> *note - I restarted right after the hardware error in gsat and upped the dram voltage to 1.42v before I took this snapshot. It failed previously at 1.41v.
> 
> 
> Is the CPU miscompare error from GSAT and indication that my cpu overclock is unstable? If so, I may have to re-evaluate the rb session.


1.05v for VCCSA is very low. Pushing those memory speeds i would expect closer to 1.25v real. Your timings looks ok, as suggested I would look into loosening the mentioned subtimings.


----------



## Kimir

Ermm, no. Not with HW-E/BW-E, you don't necessarily need to push VCCSA in the 1.2v territory.


----------



## CL3P20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Ermm, no. Not with HW-E/BW-E, you don't necessarily need to push VCCSA in the 1.2v territory.


You dont necessarily need +3600mhz RAM speeds either ...

You dont necessarily need such tight latency ...

You dont necessarily need 32GB of RAM ...

Yet all of these are related to stressing IMC and require changes to VCCSA.

running 16GB, 3200mhz c14 on HWE; my CPU's need 1.21v VCCSA minimum with 1.26v cache @ 4ghz / vdimm @ 1.48v


----------



## mus1mus

You can't run 3600 on X99 either. At least not on Asus.


----------



## chibi

Thanks for the tips everyone, round 2 vs memory in 8 hours! Already blew my first Windows install tinkering... I should look into an img backup lol.

Ideally, I'm looking to stay at or below 1.4V dram and definitely under 1.15 vccsa. Looks like I need to re-evaluate my wants of tighter timmings seeing as how the Corsair Special Editions are not so special. I should have went with the GSkill kit.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> You dont necessarily need +3600mhz RAM speeds either ...
> You dont necessarily need such tight latency ...
> You dont necessarily need 32GB of RAM ...
> 
> Yet all of these are related to stressing IMC and require changes to VCCSA.
> 
> running 16GB, 3200mhz c14 on HWE; my CPU's need 1.21v VCCSA minimum with 1.26v cache @ 4ghz / vdimm @ 1.48v


Never used a sample that needs that much for that speed (on ASUS boards). Probably more to do with other voltages in tow


----------



## Killer344

Hi, I'm having a bit of headache over here, I can sometimes pass GSAT with no problems, others it fais in less than 15 minutes (I can pass HCI with no problems always). My only guess is sometimes they get trained a bit differently during boot up and all goes to hell.

I had MRC Fast Boot set to disabled, I just set it to enabled after reading it could be worse, left MRC Full Check enabled for now.

These are my timings:



Running 4133mhz at 1.405v.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killer344*
> 
> Hi, I'm having a bit of headache over here, I can sometimes pass GSAT with no problems, others it fais in less than 15 minutes (I can pass HCI with no problems always). My only guess is sometimes they get trained a bit differently during boot up and all goes to hell.
> 
> I had MRC Fast Boot set to disabled, I just set it to enabled after reading it could be worse, left MRC Full Check enabled for now.
> 
> These are my timings:
> 
> 
> 
> Running 4133mhz at 1.405v.


tRAS is low. is should be CAS+RCD+RTP (+/-2). so with your settings should be closer to 44 (42 should be fine).


----------



## Killer344

Just passed GSAT with 18-18-18-39, but I'll set it to 40 to be on the safe side, thanks!


----------



## chibi

Hmm... this is not good right? Pretty much stock settings and failing GSAT


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Edit - scratch that, this kit is just very sensitive to the primary timings. I went full default at C14-16-16-36 and it passed GSAT. Back to the drawing board


----------



## Kimir

And here I thought you had GSKILL C14-14-14 TZ, but you don't, now that explains it.


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> And here I thought you had GSKILL C14-14-14 TZ, but you don't, now that explains it.


The OC enthusiast in me says to ditch the Corsairs and grab a set of the tried and true TZ X99 kit, 3200 C14-14-14-34-2N, and let them fly on BW-E. But the vain little girl in me says to keep the Dom Plat SE's for their aesthetic value and live with the poorer performance... wut do?!


----------



## djgar

You need to do what the heart commands


----------



## Kimir

Dom Plat SE are nice pieces, Corsair advertising says they can be overclocked to 3600 so there must be some room for improvement even if 14-14-14 isn't achievable.
Perhaps 14-15-15 and the tight secondary with healthy amount of voltage and see how it goes.


----------



## mus1mus

Or give it 1.45 for 3200 14-14-14-34-1T.


----------



## Tecchie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> The OC enthusiast in me says to ditch the Corsairs and grab a set of the tried and true TZ X99 kit, 3200 C14-14-14-34-2N, and let them fly on BW-E. But the vain little girl in me says to keep the Dom Plat SE's for their aesthetic value and live with the poorer performance... wut do?!


I went with G.Skill low latency kit and got a large amount of memory bandwidth when I clocked everything at it's rated speed and have a mild over clock on my 5960X.

At the time (there are faster kits now from them) I picked up DDR4-2400mhz, at 14.14.14.34.

Locked down the timings, forced it to run at its 2400mhz speed (manually set the voltages for the modules to .02 over because my CPU would randomly drop one module) and it's stable. Synthetic tests show I'm about 61-62GB/sec read/writes.. which is close to he advertised speed of 68 that Intel states.

In fact, it's 'rated' by AIDA64 at around 80-something.. lol

It's a 64GB kit (quad channel)


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Dom Plat SE are nice pieces, Corsair advertising says they can be overclocked to 3600 so there must be some room for improvement even if 14-14-14 isn't achievable.
> Perhaps 14-15-15 and the tight secondary with healthy amount of voltage and see how it goes.


Yea, I honestly expected more from this kit. Perhaps not TZ level of OC, but give me something yanno? My HW-E 5960X IMC coupled with two 3600C15 kits put these Corsairs to shame.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mus1mus*
> 
> Or give it 1.45 for 3200 14-14-14-34-1T.


Tried that and they fell flat on their face. GSAT errored out in the 3100 block count down.








First world problems I tell ya. Coming from a min/max HW-E config to this awesome BW-E chip and potato memory kit is cheesy.


----------



## NIK1

Anyone ever use TechPowerUp MemTest64 to test the stability of a memory oc.If yes,how long do you let it run for.Also,is there something better for memory stressing to use.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> Anyone ever use TechPowerUp MemTest64 to test the stability of a memory oc.If yes,how long do you let it run for.Also,is there something better for memory stressing to use.


I like to use memtest-HCI. Here is a link. http://hcidesign.com/memtest/ Use one instance for each CPU thread or two per core same difference.


----------



## NIK1

Thanks for the memtest-HCI link..How long do you let it run for.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> Thanks for the memtest-HCI link..How long do you let it run for.


At least 500% no errors.


----------



## NIK1

Thanks for the info....


----------



## chibi

Ok, best I can do with these sticks within my self imposed limiters of 1.4V ram and 1vccsa.








The RTL's seem high though, I was expecting 53/51's.









chibi--i7 6950X @4.40/3.60---3200Mhz-C14-16-16-35-1T----1.395v---SA 1.056v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> Anyone ever use TechPowerUp MemTest64 to test the stability of a memory oc.If yes,how long do you let it run for.Also,is there something better for memory stressing to use.


This has been covered briefly in here. Have seen very inconsistent results with 1 to 2 hours of coverage time passing where GSAT and HCI will find errors with minimal coverage. Won't be using it for this thread anytime soon.


----------



## poinguan

Anyone with a Z170 mobo fill up all the 4 ram slots? How's the stability?
I have ASRock Z170 Gaming K6 with 2x4GB Corsair LPX 2666 ram. Planning to add on 2 more sticks (LPX but maybe different revision) to make it 4x4GB. Or shall I avoid, sell the 2x4GB and buy 2x8GB?


----------



## Kalpa

I have a Gigabyte Z170 Gaming K3-EU. I'm running a core i7 7700K and 4x8GB HyperX kit rated for 2666-15-17-17-36 if memory serves. I'm running the memory at 2800-14-15-15-31-1T (plus a crapton of tightened secondary and tertiary timings I can't recall from heart) - the systen ran [email protected] stable for almost 3 weeks before a bluescreen. I assume memory OC instability.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

I was wondering if there was an equivalent of the G.Skill 3600 C15 for the G.Skill RGB ? The 4000 C18 maybe ?
Or with this memory, it's rather 3600 C16 ?

Thanks


----------



## moorhen2

Can you add this one please, new Maximus IX Apex board.

moorhen2---i7 7700k @ 5.2/4.8---3866Mhz--C16-16-16-36-1T---1.440v---SA 1.1875v---HCI 600%


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice result









What board?


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What board?


Thanks Silent Scone, using an Asus Maximus IX Apex board at the moment.


----------



## moorhen2

Playing with SA and IO voltages at the moment, this ram is pretty decent for an 3200mhz kit, going to keep tweaking.


----------



## Twau

I spent more hours I dare to admit tweaking/dancing around with VCCIO/System Agent to get my Corsair memory stable with XMP profile on my Asus z270h motherboard.
Couldn't find any vccio/sa values that survived one hour of stressapptest in Linux, then I started tweaking the DRAM voltage down, from stock 1.35 down to 1.285, that did the trick.

Is this common? Is there anything else I should adjust to get them stable and keep the stock XMP voltage at 1.35? I understand every memory is different and require different voltages, I just want to know if there is anything else I should try before lowering the voltage.

CPU: Stock 7700k
Motherboard: Asus z270h (latest bios 0906)
Memory: CMK16GX4M2B3000C15
Timings (XMP profile 3000mhz): 15-17-17-35 2T
Volt: 1.285
VCCIO: 1.15
SA: 1.20


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Playing with SA and IO voltages at the moment, *this ram is pretty decent for an 3200mhz kit, going to keep tweaking.*


Yeah, that is.


----------



## moorhen2

Managed to get up to 4000mhz and get into the os, had to loosen the timings some what, but 800mhz overclock is pretty good in my opinion, stable, well thats another thing, lol. The IMC on this chip seems decent enough.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I was wondering if there was an equivalent of the G.Skill 3600 C15 for the G.Skill RGB ? The 4000 C18 maybe ?
> Or with this memory, it's rather 3600 C16 ?
> 
> Thanks


Up


----------



## moorhen2

Just upped ram to 4000mhz, loose timings i know, but this is a 3200mhz kit, lets see how it goes.


----------



## djgar

I'm assuming that's not the X99 rig you're trying to run @ 4000? You should list it.


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I'm assuming that's not the X99 rig you're trying to run @ 4000? You should list it.


I wish, lol. 7700K, Apex board.


----------



## moorhen2

C17, one loop of HCI and no errors as yet, cant do 1T, not without excesive v's, like to keep around the 1.45v mark for ram, i'm rather conservative, lol.


Update, 800% coverage and still going,lol.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> C17, one loop of HCI and no errors as yet, cant do 1T, not without excesive v's, like to keep around the 1.45v mark for ram, i'm rather conservative, lol.
> 
> 
> Update, 800% coverage and still going,lol.


Timings aside, still pretty good for a 3200 kit.

On an unrelated note, intend on covering the upcoming X299 from within the thread upon launch


----------



## Twiffle

I just got myself Gigabyte Z170 gaming K3 Rev 1.1 motherboard and I got some 16GB HyperX FURY black Dual Rank DDR4-2133 DIMM CL14 Dual Kit ram. I never done overclocking, so I'd like to know if there's any possibility of me getting my 2133 to 2666 or even as high as 3200? Do I just need to turn the multiplier from the XMP and that's it.. or would I have to also mess with the volt? Yesterday was trying to overclock my i5 6500 to 4Ghz with 2666 RAM speed and well yeh my system crashed .

I'm not sure is it cause I only messed with ram multiplier and that my CPU voltage was 1.325, while I left ram volt untouched.

Sorry if I'm posting to a wrong thread/section.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I just got myself Gigabyte Z170 gaming K3 Rev 1.1 motherboard and I got some 16GB HyperX FURY black Dual Rank DDR4-2133 DIMM CL14 Dual Kit ram. I never done overclocking, so I'd like to know if there's any possibility of me getting my 2133 to 2666 or even as high as 3200? Do I just need to turn the multiplier from the XMP and that's it.. or would I have to also mess with the volt? Yesterday was trying to overclock my i5 6500 to 4Ghz with 2666 RAM speed and well yeh my system crashed .
> 
> I'm not sure is it cause I only messed with ram multiplier and that my CPU voltage was 1.325, while I left ram volt untouched.
> 
> Sorry if I'm posting to a wrong thread/section.


Hi, HyperX isn't known to be the best generally speaking so range may not be spectacular on a rock bottom bin such as that, unfortunately. For 2666 try DRAM voltage from 1.2v to 1.3v and set CL, tRCD and tRP to 16 as a starting point. After which if stability has improved, use the methods instructed in the OP.


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Timings aside, still pretty good for a 3200 kit.
> 
> On an unrelated note, intend on covering the upcoming X299 from within the thread upon launch


Thanks, 4000mhz kits start at c18 i think, so as you say not bad for a 3200 kit. lol


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Hi, HyperX isn't known to be the best generally speaking so range may not be spectacular on a rock bottom bin such as that, unfortunately. For 2666 try DRAM voltage from 1.2v to 1.3v and set CL, tRCD and tRP to 16 as a starting point. After which if stability has improved, use the methods instructed in the OP.


Ahh, alright. Thanks a lot.


----------



## tw33k

tw33k--i7 6700K @stock---3600Mhz-C16-16-16-36-2N----1.35v---SA 1v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ Nice!


----------



## moorhen2

Well this 3200 kit does seem to be highly binned, 4133 gets into Windows, stability, well that's a different story, we will see, lol


----------



## moorhen2

Had to up the SA to 1.2125v, at 400% coverage HCI at the moment, but still going, also dropped the Uncore to 47x. No bad at all me thinks.


----------



## needh3lp

I'm having an issue with what appears to be minor data corruption, although I'm not sure. I routinely take an image of my PC for backup purposes and recently my backup process has been failing due to files being unreadable. After I run a chkdsk, I can get the backup to complete.

I'm not sure how to interpret this, but my gut feeling tells me it has something to do with my RAM which is why I'm posting here. I have passed 2 hrs GSAT and overnight of prime95/realbench without problems and the system is stable in normal use.

Does this sound like a RAM issue? Maybe the ssd is going bad? (Nothing bad is reported by chkdsk)
If someone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it!


----------



## moorhen2

Can you add this one please.

moorhen2---i7 7700k @5.1/4.7---4133mhz--C18-18-18-40-2T---1.4650v---SA 1.2125v---IO---1.2000v---HCI 1000%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *needh3lp*
> 
> I'm having an issue with what appears to be minor data corruption, although I'm not sure. I routinely take an image of my PC for backup purposes and recently my backup process has been failing due to files being unreadable. After I run a chkdsk, I can get the backup to complete.
> 
> I'm not sure how to interpret this, but my gut feeling tells me it has something to do with my RAM which is why I'm posting here. I have passed 2 hrs GSAT and overnight of prime95/realbench without problems and the system is stable in normal use.
> 
> Does this sound like a RAM issue? Maybe the ssd is going bad? (Nothing bad is reported by chkdsk)
> If someone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it!


seems like it's more of a disk issue than ram... considering it passed gast (recently? Ram can drift if you are OC'd to the edge). Depending on the type of disk(s) being used, any of a number of deep diagnostics might tell ya if it is one or more of the drives. I'll assume you are not referring to the rig in your sig.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Can you add this one please.
> 
> moorhen2---i7 7700k @5.1/4.7---4133mhz--C18-18-18-40-2T---1.4650v---SA 1.2125v---IO---1.2000v---HCI 1000%


daaaum nice!!


----------



## needh3lp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> seems like it's more of a disk issue than ram... considering it passed gast (recently? Ram can drift if you are OC'd to the edge). Depending on the type of disk(s) being used, any of a number of deep diagnostics might tell ya if it is one or more of the drives. I'll assume you are not referring to the rig in your sig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daaaum nice!!


Thanks for the feedback!

Yes I confirmed that my ram and processor OC's were still stable. I passed 2hrs GSAT and 500% on HCI again today after giving my voltages a small bump up just in case. Seems fine in the stress tests.
I will have to investigate the disk more. It is a samsung 960 evo nvme 250gb that is giving me the small issue. The unreadable file problem seems to occur over a long period of time since I take an image backup once a month and it only recently started happening. Luckily I have a healthy backup I can restore to so data loss isn't a major concern, but I'd like to solve this.

I don't want to derail the topic in this thread so I will take my questions to the appropriate place now that the disk is the suspect. Thank you!


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *needh3lp*
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> Yes I confirmed that my ram and processor OC's were still stable. I passed 2hrs GSAT and 500% on HCI again today after giving my voltages a small bump up just in case. Seems fine in the stress tests.
> I will have to investigate the disk more. It is a samsung 960 evo nvme 250gb that is giving me the small issue. The unreadable file problem seems to occur over a long period of time since I take an image backup once a month and it only recently started happening. Luckily I have a healthy backup I can restore to so data loss isn't a major concern, but I'd like to solve this.
> 
> I don't want to derail the topic in this thread so I will take my questions to the appropriate place now that the disk is the suspect. Thank you!


Ive had GSAT find 1 error after 8 hours a few times. Maybe consider running a test overnight. Are you using rapid mode...ram caching? Not sure if that's a thing for 960 but it's an option at least on my 850.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *needh3lp*
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> Yes I confirmed that my ram and processor OC's were still stable. I passed 2hrs GSAT and 500% on HCI again today after giving my voltages a small bump up just in case. Seems fine in the stress tests.
> I will have to investigate the disk more. It is a samsung 960 evo nvme 250gb that is giving me the small issue. The unreadable file problem seems to occur over a long period of time since I take an image backup once a month and it only recently started happening. Luckily I have a healthy backup I can restore to so data loss isn't a major concern, but I'd like to solve this.
> 
> I don't want to derail the topic in this thread so I will take my questions to the appropriate place now that the disk is the suspect. Thank you!


Reduce overclock and if that happens again, you can start panic. Are you running it as main system drive? It uses TLC, which are (I didn't found any better word.)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



... crap ...



How many reads and writes on that 960 EVO? In case my suspicion is right it might be nice for a statistic data. But of course, IO voltages for SATA, and voltages that govern PCI-E lanes, can pass the test and still wreak havoc when they are little bit off.

Intel should release reliable and cheap Optane, before SSD manufacturers arrive with QLC disks.

(Completely unrelated topic. Dear Seagate, can you tell us if that Baracuda with Optane is using Shindled recording or not? Also is there still RAM, or is it Optane only?)


----------



## tw33k

tw33k--i7 6700K @4.6Ghz---3600Mhz-C16-16-16-36-2N----1.35v---SA 1.2v---MemTest 900%


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> seems like it's more of a disk issue than ram... considering it passed gast (recently? Ram can drift if you are OC'd to the edge). Depending on the type of disk(s) being used, any of a number of deep diagnostics might tell ya if it is one or more of the drives. I'll assume you are not referring to the rig in your sig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daaaum nice!!


Thank you kind sir, not too bad for a 3200mhz kit, well 2 sticks of them anyway, lol.


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> tw33k--i7 6700K @4.6Ghz---3600Mhz-C16-16-16-36-2N----1.35v---SA 1.2v---MemTest 200%


Have you tried ramping them up a bit, seems your running stock at the moment, that kit should be able to do more, just a thought.


----------



## needh3lp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Ive had GSAT find 1 error after 8 hours a few times. Maybe consider running a test overnight. Are you using rapid mode...ram caching? Not sure if that's a thing for 960 but it's an option at least on my 850.


I took your advice and ran a longer test. Passed GSAT with no errors after 9 hours. I'm not using any atypical modes for anything as far as I know. Is it safe to assume the ram is stable?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Reduce overclock and if that happens again, you can start panic. Are you running it as main system drive? It uses TLC, which are (I didn't found any better word.)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ... crap ...
> 
> 
> 
> How many reads and writes on that 960 EVO? In case my suspicion is right it might be nice for a statistic data. But of course, IO voltages for SATA, and voltages that govern PCI-E lanes, can pass the test and still wreak havoc when they are little bit off.
> 
> Intel should release reliable and cheap Optane, before SSD manufacturers arrive with QLC disks.
> 
> (Completely unrelated topic. Dear Seagate, can you tell us if that Baracuda with Optane is using Shindled recording or not? Also is there still RAM, or is it Optane only?)


Here's the thing, I'm not actually overclocking my ram beyond xmp, however auto settings from my mobo was causing ram issues so I had to manually adjust vccio and sa voltages just to get xmp to pass any memory test. After quite a bit of tinkering I found what appears to be stable in the tests. Perhaps it really is a disk issue?

I'm not sure how many reads writes are on the disk, but I have done a few image backups and restores on it which could be large in size and it is also the main system drive so it has seen some use, but it's only 4-5 months old.

I switched to the Samsung nvme driver instead of the default MS one and gave my IO and SA voltages a bump up. I guess time will tell if those changes have any effect. Anything else I could try or should I just wait a few weeks and see if I can make an image backup like I normally do without errors?

Thanks for the feedback guys.


----------



## Silent Scone

Passing 9 hours of GSAT would indicate the issue is not with memory. As Jpmboy suggested initially, sounds like data corruption is more likely due to disk trouble. If still not sure you can revert the system to optimised defaults and see if you're able to replicate the issue. I'd strongly advise you backup by other means in case of the event the drive fails.


----------



## moorhen2

Well this kit has exceeded all my expectations, got it running at 4133mhz 16-18-18-38-1T with just a slight increase in SA and IO voltage, ram voltage still at 1.465v, just reached 200% coverage with HCI, lets see how it goes.


----------



## moorhen2

Silent Scone, can you add this one please. Asus Maximus IX Apex.

moorhen2---i7 7700k @ 5.1/4.7---4133mhz--C16-18-18-38-1T---1.465v---SA 1.2375v---IO 1.2250v---HCI 1100%


----------



## Silent Scone

No problem. Will add at some point this week. Really good kit you've got there


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> No problem. Will add at some point this week. Really good kit you've got there


Many thanks.


----------



## BoredErica

Hi, read several hundred posts here.

Right now my 6700k is at bclk 101.9, x50/47, ram is at 3804 15-15-15-30. Been poking at secondary and tertiary timings. I am running Gsat on flash drive with Linux mint but having some troubles installing it (can't seem to find my flash drive as the target for the installation), so I end up reinstalling Gsat every boot. Not a HUGE deal though.

Where I am right now...



They are 3600 c15 Trident kits 2x8gb. Might go for 4333 c19 Trident kits in the future but I do not know how it will perform or overclock. I am recording repeatable and stable increases in FPS with fraps and Oblivion, Skyrim, and FO4.

Memtweak It is reading lower freq for my ram than it should be. Hwinfo is much closer.

I guess a problem is how long one should run Gsat testing each individual timing. Sure, I can run 1 hr Gsat per timing, but then I'll also be taking days and days to overclock. Right now I'm just doing 5-10 minutes per setting. *shrugs*

In general are tertiary any more or less important to overclock than secondary? Not sure where to put most of my effort. The primary timings are pretty much stuck, except for tRas which I will test with benches later. 14 cas and it can't boot, 14 anything else but cas or tras and it cannot pass Gsat (and in my experience really isn't functionally stable enough over the long haul anyways).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> thanks, and I see you have already set the 4 tertiary timings to the cas value... this is even more important at higher frequencies. I assume when shooting for higher freqs, you set these the same as cas again?


I guess the four RDWR timings for tertiary can go to 15 instead of the lowest I can set it to? lol.

I never heard anything about tertiary timings needing to line up with cas. I read tWR needs to be cas, that's it. I guess that goes for the tertiary too.


tWRRD (_SG, _DG, _DD, _DR)
tWRWR (_SG, _DG, _DD, _DR)
Write Recovery Time (tWR)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> Silent Scone, can you add this one please. Asus Maximus IX Apex.
> 
> moorhen2---i7 7700k @ 5.1/4.7---4133mhz--C16-18-18-38-1T---1.465v---SA 1.2375v---IO 1.2250v---HCI 1100%


lo - that's crazy good for that voltage. great kit!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Hi, read several hundred posts here.
> 
> Right now my 6700k is at bclk 101.9, x50/47, ram is at 3804 15-15-15-30. Been poking at secondary and tertiary timings. I am running Gsat on flash drive with Linux mint but having some troubles installing it (can't seem to find my flash drive as the target for the installation), so I end up reinstalling Gsat every boot. Not a HUGE deal though.
> 
> Where I am right now...
> 
> 
> 
> They are 3600 c15 Trident kits 2x8gb. Might go for 4333 c19 Trident kits in the future but I do not know how it will perform or overclock. I am recording repeatable and stable increases in FPS with fraps and Oblivion, Skyrim, and FO4.
> 
> Memtweak It is reading lower freq for my ram than it should be. Hwinfo is much closer.
> 
> I guess a problem is how long one should run Gsat testing each individual timing. Sure, I can run 1 hr Gsat per timing, but then I'll also be taking days and days to overclock. Right now I'm just doing 5-10 minutes per setting. *shrugs*
> 
> In general are tertiary any more or less important to overclock than secondary? Not sure where to put most of my effort. The primary timings are pretty much stuck, except for tRas which I will test with benches later. 14 cas and it can't boot, 14 anything else but cas or tras and it cannot pass Gsat (and in my experience really isn't functionally stable enough over the long haul anyways).
> 
> I guess the four RDWR timings for tertiary can go to 15 instead of the lowest I can set it to? lol.
> 
> I never heard anything about tertiary timings needing to line up with cas. I read tWR needs to be cas, that's it. I guess that goes for the tertiary too.
> 
> [*] tWRRD (_SG, _DG, _DD, _DR)
> [*] tWRWR (_SG, _DG, _DD, _DR)
> [*] Write Recovery Time (tWR)


http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
See Issue#1 - it may apply to your configuration. Is that 2 3600c15 kits mixed on a 4-dimm board (the hero)? if yes, the issue definitely applies. (can;t tell from your sig rigs.. none are a 6700K)
DL a copy of the Asrock timing config app - need to see the RTLs and IOLs.
these timings might work for 3866 (1.45V), 37331.4V) or 3600 (1.375V).. but with 2 kits it is always a hit or miss scenario:


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lo - that's crazy good for that voltage. great kit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
> See Issue#1 - it may apply to your configuration. Is that 2 3600c15 kits mixed on a 4-dimm board (the hero)? if yes, the issue definitely applies. (can;t tell from your sig rigs.. none are a 6700K)
> DL a copy of the Asrock timing config app - need to see the RTLs and IOLs.
> these timings might work for 3866 (1.45V), 37331.4V) or 3600 (1.375V).. but with 2 kits it is always a hit or miss scenario:


I'm a little confused here. I actually ran into the thread you linked a few hours ago but thought nothing of the first point. The issue mentioned post code 55, failure to post, right? I'm posting just fine, and the frequency I'm reading off of hwinfo and GPUZ look normal. It's just MemTweak It, which gives a static figure that is slightly off.

I have not tweaked RTL/iOLs yet, I'm working on other timings. Here are the timings as I type this post, it has been modified since I last posted.



My sig rigs are kind of confusing right now, because I'm getting pretty close to updating the rig... Will update after it is done. 7600k on z170 Hero. It's 2x8GB 3600 c15. z170 I would call a 2 dimm board? 4 ram slots, but really for dual channel.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306

I guess the real question here is, setting those 4 tertiary timings to cas is for stability reasons only? Because I'm nice and stable under Gsat right now. The language in the the hwbot thread implies that lower is better, but set to cas is a compromise some people have to make.

tRAS is a bit low right now.

okie dokes, back to lowering timings on everything. Chuck in some ram benches to check.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*


What you say about Weeks? not days...that's how long it took me to OC memory.

Testing just for 10-15 min is not really good, as on my last 100 m of OC-ing I constantly got Errors at 1:45 - 2:00 h mark.
You can run Gsat under OS (win 10) as well and its much more easy. (Let me know if you need info on that and I will pull the link - have it saved somewhere)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> I'm a little confused here. I actually ran into the thread you linked a few hours ago but thought nothing of the first point. The issue mentioned post code 55, failure to post, right? I'm posting just fine, and the frequency I'm reading off of hwinfo and GPUZ look normal. It's just MemTweak It, which gives a static figure that is slightly off.
> 
> I have not tweaked RTL/iOLs yet, I'm working on other timings. Here are the timings as I type this post, it has been modified since I last posted.
> 
> 
> My sig rigs are kind of confusing right now, because I'm getting pretty close to updating the rig... Will update after it is done. 7600k on z170 Hero. It's 2x8GB 3600 c15. z170 I would call a 2 dimm board? 4 ram slots, but really for dual channel.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306
> 
> I guess the real question here is, setting those 4 tertiary timings to cas is for stability reasons only? Because I'm nice and stable under Gsat right now. The language in the the hwbot thread implies that lower is better, but set to cas is a compromise some people have to make.
> 
> tRAS is a bit low right now.
> 
> okie dokes, back to lowering timings on everything. Chuck in some ram benches to check.


Hey bud. That dram frequency float is normal and related to BCLK - just ignore it. so, ras=cas+tRCD+tRTP within a +/-2 range. yes, It's a little low in your screenshot. The sticks are not quite trained properly.. theRTL/IOL timings should be 65/66/7/7 (or lower .. like in the 50's with a +1 stagger for ChA and B D0. The hero (or extreme) is exactly the board Alex was referencing 4 slots board with only 1 dimm per channel (eg, your 2 sticks). So try to align the 4 timings he discussed as they drive other timings in the stack. With KBL and SKL, AID64 membench is very helpful in optimizing. the "Efficiency" score in memtweakit is pretty meaningless (and waay too dependent on tREFI for example).


----------



## moorhen2

Well managed to get to 4233mhz, gets into OS ok, not even going to attempt stability though, think I have pushed this kit to its limits now, lol.


----------



## BoredErica

> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Hey bud. That dram frequency float is normal and related to BCLK - just ignore it. so, ras=cas+tRCD+tRTP within a +/-2 range. yes, It's a little low in your screenshot. The sticks are not quite trained properly.. theRTL/IOL timings should be 65/66/7/7 (or lower .. like in the 50's with a +1 stagger for ChA and B D0. The hero (or extreme) is exactly the board Alex was referencing 4 slots board with only 1 dimm per channel (eg, your 2 sticks). So try to align the 4 timings he discussed as they drive other timings in the stack. With KBL and SKL, AID64 membench is very helpful in optimizing. the "Efficiency" score in memtweakit is pretty meaningless (and waay too dependent on tREFI for example).






Like this?
That causes my computer to restart with Q code 01 and 03. In case the 0 values look crazy, those slots are empty, so they boot just fine set to any value. I tried setting the 4 timings to 15 in case it helps, but I don't think it was the difference here.

EDIT:



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







:thinking:


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like this?
> 
> That causes my computer to restart with Q code 01 and 03. In case the 0 values look crazy, those slots are empty, so they boot just fine set to any value. I tried setting the 4 timings to 15 in case it helps, but I don't think it was the difference here.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


lol - yeah that would error out. Change ChA D0 to 65, ChB D0 to 66 (65 can also work), RTL A D0 to 7, RTL B D0 to 7 only for Rank 0. Leave everything else on Auto.
If that fails, it is always best to load optimized defaults and re-post back to bios before re-loading any saved OC profile. There are settings for RAM that we do not have access to in bios that will train to manual settings, so if the settings are foul, you want to flush and refill.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like this?
> 
> That causes my computer to restart with Q code 01 and 03. In case the 0 values look crazy, those slots are empty, so they boot just fine set to any value. I tried setting the 4 timings to 15 in case it helps, but I don't think it was the difference here.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Some of your timing's are probably way to low.
tWR, tRRD_L, tRRD_S and tFAW just to name a few.

Remember ras=cas+tRCD+tRTP and tFAW should be 4x tRTP.

venture too far from these rules and you will have a hard time getting any stability.


----------



## kevindd992002

Which DDR4 speed is the most practical to get for a 7700K/GTX 1080Ti gaming rig without the sacrificing price/performance ratio? The 4000+ MHz modules are too expensive so I figured there's a good balance between speed and price for these DDR4 modules. I'm all for overclocking so no need to be plug-and-play


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Which DDR4 speed is the most practical to get for a 7700K/GTX 1080Ti gaming rig without the sacrificing price/performance ratio? The 4000+ MHz modules are too expensive so I figured there's a good balance between speed and price for these DDR4 modules. I'm all for overclocking so no need to be plug-and-play


3200-3666

Apologies I've been fairly inactive, busy time of year for me.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 3200-3666
> 
> Apologies I've been fairly inactive, busy time of year for me.


So anything beyond 3666 is considered already with absurd pricing point?


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> So anything beyond 3666 is considered already with absurd pricing point?


It's only absurd if you don't want to buy it, it might be absurd to you but not the next guy. Buy some RAM that fits your price point.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GnarlyCharlie*
> 
> It's only absurd if you don't want to buy it, it might be absurd to you but not the next guy. Buy some RAM that fits your price point.


But there's gotta be like a commonality between people's price thought of these things.


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

How fast do you want your RAM to run? Buy RAM rated for that speed. If the RAM that's rated for the speed you want is too expensive, then you'll need to lower your expectations on the speed you run it. It's not a cosmic quandary, just a fact that others may be willing to spend what you consider absurd to get the performance they desire - just by following the guideline I laid out in the first two sentences.


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Hey bud. That dram frequency float is normal and related to BCLK - just ignore it. so, ras=cas+tRCD+tRTP within a +/-2 range. yes, It's a little low in your screenshot. The sticks are not quite trained properly.. theRTL/IOL timings should be 65/66/7/7 (or lower .. like in the 50's with a +1 stagger for ChA and B D0. The hero (or extreme) is exactly the board Alex was referencing 4 slots board with only 1 dimm per channel (eg, your 2 sticks). So try to align the 4 timings he discussed as they drive other timings in the stack. With KBL and SKL, AID64 membench is very helpful in optimizing. the "Efficiency" score in memtweakit is pretty meaningless (and waay too dependent on tREFI for example).


Hi Jpmboy, how to tell just from looking that sticks weren't properly trained? I'm guessing RTL A/B stagger 1 is OK, but IOL A/B should be exactly the same and not stagger?

Also, Darkwizzie & mine RTL D0 > D1 and IOL D0 < D1 while yours is flipped - I gather that is normal too?

Thanks


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> But there's gotta be like a commonality between people's price thought of these things.


It is what it is. What I gave you was really more of an ideal point for the platform in terms of plug & play compatibility rather than the cost of the kits in question. Memory prices are constantly in a state of flux, and as such you pay for what you can afford at the time you need to buy. The top binned kits are naturally more expensive.


----------



## kevindd992002

But can 7700K's run G.Skill 2x8GB 3600MHz CL15 easily with an ASUS Maximus IX Hero board?


----------



## Praz

Hello

Something to get things started if you decide to add X299 to the table.

Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING --- 3600 15-15-15-36-1T --- 1.350V --- SA 0.768V --- IO 0.896V --- HCI 730% --- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)


----------



## moorhen2

Off we go with HCI with my 3200mhz kit running at 4234mhz, 1.465v, lets see how they go, lol.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Something to get things started if you decide to add X299 to the table.
> 
> Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING --- 3600 15-15-15-36-1T --- 1.350V --- SA 0.768V --- IO 0.896V --- HCI 730% --- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)


Hi Praz,

Yep, fully intend to do X299, will update this week. Looking forward to seeing where the platform limits are.


----------



## moorhen2

moorhen2---7700k @ 5.1/4.3---Asus Maximus ix Apex---4234--C19-19-19-42-1T---1.465V---SA 1.2500v---IO 1.2250v---HCI 600%



Update, make that Command rate 1T Please.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> Something to get things started if you decide to add X299 to the table.
> Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING --- 3600 15-15-15-36-1T --- 1.350V --- SA 0.768V --- IO 0.896V --- HCI 730% --- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)




nice. that 7820K may be the jewel of this series.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nice. that 7820K may be the jewel of this series.


Hello

After clocking memory with Ryzen the last few months this is just too easy.

Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING --- 3733 16-16-16-36-1T --- 1.350V --- SA 0.768V --- IO 0.896V --- HCI 650% --- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice. Certainly a bit of a contrast between Zen and Skylake that's for sure.


----------



## chibi

Does SKY-X have the capabilities to push into 4000MHz with an Apex board? That's certainly a big jump compared with HW/BW-E


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> After clocking memory with Ryzen the last few months this is just too easy.
> 
> Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING --- 3733 16-16-16-36-1T --- 1.350V --- SA 0.768V --- IO 0.896V --- HCI 650% --- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Very nice
You did not try 38xx C17 or 4000 C18 ?
I've seen some screen where it's stable on X299


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Does SKY-X have the capabilities to push into 4000MHz with an Apex board? That's certainly a big jump compared with HW/BW-E


I've heard 4000Mhz is possible, but not on what board - most likely the Apex all things considered.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Does SKY-X have the capabilities to push into 4000MHz with an Apex board? That's certainly a big jump compared with HW/BW-E


If you want's to have high speeds, grab sex-channel CPU and MB (Yea, I know prices are crazy and the price/performance ratio is totally not worthy). Frankly, I'm not entirely sure about durability of running 3800+MHz with tight timings 24/7.

Quad channel has plenty of bandwidth and worse timings. Typically in contrast to 2 channel platforms, it's better to work on latencies than on high frequencies.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> If you want's to have high speeds, grab sex-channel CPU and MB


I'm not sure they make these yet, but I'm sure there's a market


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've heard 4000Mhz is possible, but not on what board - most likely the Apex all things considered.


Hello

There will be 4000Mhz speed sets of memory qualified for several boards. Naturally the Apex will have sets exceeding this speed.


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> There will be 4000Mhz speed sets of memory qualified for several boards. Naturally the Apex will have sets exceeding this speed.


Will G.Skill be the leader here again? Do we have a ballpark time frame when we will see sets like these?


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> There will be 4000Mhz speed sets of memory qualified for several boards. Naturally the Apex will have sets exceeding this speed.


That's very impressive! Competing very well with Kabylake in terms of speed, considering it's dual vs quad channel. I'll have to sit this round out as I'm very content with my bw-e setup, so I'll live vicariously through jpm, praz, scone and all the regulars in here


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> Will G.Skill be the leader here again? Do we have a ballpark time frame when we will see sets like these?


Hello

I don't know what all the different manufacturers have planned but I would think G.Skill is the safe bet.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> There will be 4000Mhz speed sets of memory qualified for several boards. Naturally the Apex will have sets exceeding this speed.


You did not try 38xx C17 or 4000 C18 ?
If possible with your kit, of course


----------



## NIK1

3866-15-15-15-36-2tcachemem.png 95k .png file
I have my GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR running at 3869 15-15-15-36 2n Mode 2..To get this oc to run at 1N what voltages should I up to see if 1N will work.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'm not sure they make these yet, but I'm sure there's a market


I only seen a rack server motherboard. Not sure if there would be an unlocked CPU, or at least MB usable for a normal PC.


----------



## ssateneth

RAM kit is F4-3600C17Q-64GTZKW (G.SKILL 4x16GiB DDR4-3600 17-19-19-39, B-die)

Welp, going to revisit this thread. After getting numerous random application errors, it seems my 5960x IMC isn't terribly good. Using 3333Mhz RAM divider with a 125MHz BCLK and 100:133 ratio, the computer refuses to POST unless the DRAM Clock Period is manually set anywhere from 8-11 (AUTO is no-post), and even then, many many HCI errors. Using the loosest of loose timings has no effect, SA and VCCIO seem to have no effect either.

3250 (125BCLK, 100:100) is no-post.

3200 (100BCLK, 100:133) is the one I've been running most of the time, but sporadic application crashes (once a week or so) seems to be a thing. HCI throws 1 error every 400% or so. Same deal with 3333; RAM voltage/loose timings, SA, and VCCIO seem to have no effect.

2933 (100BCLK, 100:133) seems rock stable though with stock SA (0.825) and VCCIO (1.05). 2000% HCI, no problems @ 14-14-14-34 1T 1.35v, 11-14-14-34 1T 1.5v.

3000 (125BCLK, 100:133) is what I moved up to next. 1500% @ 12-14-14-34 1T 1.5V. I'm working on 11-14-14-34 1T 1.55v right now (CAS11 @ 1.5v wasn't a good match. The extra 0.05v seems to have helped)

For the longest time, I would always get RARE errors and I had no idea what caused it, because I was under the impression that 3200 was a 'golden' ratio for HW-E. But not all HW-E made equal. So 3000 it is for now. Since I got the rare errors out of the way, now I can confidently work on RAM capabilities. But in case anyone has some recommendations, does anyone have a clue as to what setting can be changed to make higher speeds possible?

edit: I need to disable my video driver prior to running HCI Memtest, otherwise my screens black out and go into standby mode. Seems to be a glitch with nvidia driver if it can't access RAM fast enough. I thought it was a sign of instability, but blacking out with stock setting, surely an nvidia bug. The log generated by HCI indicates no errors found still. *shrug*


----------



## Kana Chan

https://www.notebookcheck.net/G-Skill-readies-Quad-Channel-DDR4-4200-RAM-Kit-for-Intel-s-latest-Skylake-X-CPUs.230748.0.html
There will be a 64GB kit at 4200mhz but no one knows when it'll launch and a 16GB kit at even higher speeds.


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lo - that's crazy good for that voltage. great kit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
> See Issue#1 - it may apply to your configuration. Is that 2 3600c15 kits mixed on a 4-dimm board (the hero)? if yes, the issue definitely applies. (can;t tell from your sig rigs.. none are a 6700K)
> DL a copy of the Asrock timing config app - need to see the RTLs and IOLs.
> these timings might work for 3866 (1.45V), 37331.4V) or 3600 (1.375V).. but with 2 kits it is always a hit or miss scenario:


Is there any timing configurator for x299? I have som problems with low write with Asrock taichi x299 -7900x and 4x 8GB 4266 c19 g.skill memory









Using 4000mhz cl 15 to 19, depends on mem voltage.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Is there any timing configurator for x299? I have som problems with low write with Asrock taichi x299 -7900x and 4x 8GB 4266 c19 g.skill memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using 4000mhz cl 15 to 19, depends on mem voltage.


Memtweak will likely become available when the ROG boards are ready to drop. I've not checked Asrock's site, I don't like the layout of their version personally.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> moorhen2---7700k @ 5.1/4.3---Asus Maximus ix Apex---4234--C19-19-19-42-1T---1.465V---SA 1.2500v---IO 1.2250v---HCI 600%
> 
> 
> 
> Update, make that Command rate 1T Please.


Nice work! Sacrificed a bit of cache there to get that stable


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Is there any timing configurator for x299? I have som problems with low write with Asrock taichi x299 -7900x and 4x 8GB 4266 c19 g.skill memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using 4000mhz cl 15 to 19, depends on mem voltage.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


the timing configurator usually shows up with release of the OCF series... I saw run running this weekend. (x299 OCF) - looks to be a good board.


----------



## rt123

Wait, did I miss you at the event???


----------



## tistou77

Hello

I test the kit G.Skill 4000 18-19-19 (4x8gb) @ 3200 13-13-13 and 1.35v on X99
I get errors with HCI Memtest less than 50%, is good @ 3200 14-14-14

Is there a voltage (except VDRAM) to increase for 3200 C13 ?
Where is it just the kit that is not stable with this frequency/timings ?

I thought this kit would have the same "chips" as the kit 3600 C15

Thanks


----------



## Kimir

Why only 1.35v? try 1.4v and see what's up.
Or if you are afraid of using 1.4v, try 13-14-14.


----------



## Nizzen

1.5 on air is no problem. 1.5 is intel spec "max"

I use 1.5v for benchmarks, and 1.45 for 24/7









4000 cl15 is easy with 1.5v 4266 c19 4x8GB


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Why only 1.35v? try 1.4v and see what's up.
> Or if you are afraid of using 1.4v, try 13-14-14.


I'm looking for the equivalent of the kit 3600 C15, which is stable at 3200 13-13-13 and 1.35v, egg
The kit 4000 C18 (4x8gb) is more expensive than the 3600 C15 (2 kits 2x8gb), so if it is not possible to do 3200 C13 with the kit 4000 C18 at 1.35v
I would take the kit 3600 C15 (why I will put 1.40v, while for less expensive I can have the same to 1.35v)


----------



## Kimir

There is no guarantee that 2 kit of 3600c15 will do 3200c13-13-13 @1.35v on your rig. If you already have that, why bother with the high freq. kit not designed for x99.
If anything, the 4000 kit should be tested on a platform that is know to be capable.


----------



## tistou77

The kit 4000 C18 was for the future configuration X299, but currently it is on my X99
For the 2 kits 3600 C15, all those who tested it worked (Praz the 1st, 3200 C13 I believe, 3400 C14, and 3733 C16 on X299) etc ...
I will not have a chance if the 2 kits do not work on my platform, but it is a risk (after I always had to buy the kits by 2 and never worry)

Anyway, my question was not about my choices








3200 C13 works with the kit 3600 C15 on my platform that a friend had lent me
Where is it possible with the kit 4000 C18 at 1.35v (other voltage to modify ?) or I take the kit 3600 C15

And whether it is to do 3200 C13 or 3400 C14 to +1.40v
I keep my Platinum Special Edition, which do it very well


----------



## tistou77

Can other timings affect the stability at 3200 13-13-13 ?
I kept the same timings I had for 3200 14-14-14 (tras, trfc, etc ...)

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Wait, did I miss you at the event???


yeah - I could only be there for a few hours, I had to leave Saturday afternoon and been running around the north-east since. Just got back last night.


----------



## toncij

Well neither Apex or Rampage are out for X299, so it'll take serious time to see 4GHz running, especially for larger than 16GB which is a joke capacity nowdays.


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toncij*
> 
> Well neither Apex or Rampage are out for X299, so it'll take serious time to see 4GHz running, especially for larger than 16GB which is a joke capacity nowdays.


I running 32GB 4000mhz cl 15 on x299 taichi and msi tomahawk. 4x 4266 c19 mem.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> I running 32GB 4000mhz cl 15 on x299 taichi and msi tomahawk. 4x 4266 c19 mem.


Hello

Considering the subject of this thread can you post stability screenshots as well as the voltages used for this configuration? These type of blanket statements lead too many users down the wrong path in regard to what should be reasonably expected.


----------



## Twau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twau*
> 
> I spent more hours I dare to admit tweaking/dancing around with VCCIO/System Agent to get my Corsair memory stable with XMP profile on my Asus z270h motherboard.
> Couldn't find any vccio/sa values that survived one hour of stressapptest in Linux, then I started tweaking the DRAM voltage down, from stock 1.35 down to 1.285, that did the trick.
> 
> Is this common? Is there anything else I should adjust to get them stable and keep the stock XMP voltage at 1.35? I understand every memory is different and require different voltages, I just want to know if there is anything else I should try before lowering the voltage.
> 
> CPU: Stock 7700k
> Motherboard: Asus z270h (latest bios 0906)
> Memory: CMK16GX4M2B3000C15
> Timings (XMP profile 3000mhz): 15-17-17-35 2T
> Volt: 1.285
> VCCIO: 1.15
> SA: 1.20


Still struggling to find stable voltage for my system mentioned above.

With settings blow I can pass 1500% HCI memtest and hour of stressapptest, but I had BSOD in gaming with these settings.
Timings (XMP profile 3000mhz): 15-17-17-35 2T
Volt: 1.215
VCCIO: 1.05
SA: 1.15

Seems like I need very very low memory voltage to not get errors fast in HCI memtest/stressapptest, but its not stable in gaming, is this a sign of weak IMC on my 7700K, or is it the memory? I tried a new motherboard (MSI Z270 Gaming Pro Carbon) and I had the same problem, is it time to try my luck with new memory since changing the ddr4 voltage impact so much on my resualt? Or could it be my 7700 suffering from bad IMC? Feels like an guessing game, anyone have any input?

EDIT: All my memory issues was caused by a faulted stick, got a new pair of CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 that works without any issues.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twau*


For me, OC-ing the memory changes my i7 OC... so if its stable and I OC memory....I have to re-tune the CPU


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> For me, OC-ing the memory changes my i7 OC... so if its stable and I OC memory....I have to re-tune the CPU


This is par for the course with overclocking memory, more so when the uncore is overclocked


----------



## dcdead

With the much useful information from this thread I finally got my 3866 MHz on the M8H stable, I got 4000 stable too, but had to relax the subtimings so much, that the performance increase was marginal, but needed higher voltages, so I'll keep it at 3866 now.

On the Z170M OC Formula, which the person, who i got these from had, the sticks ran stable at 4000 CL14 1T and 1.45V

Sticks are Trident Z 3600 CL17

dcdead---i7 6700k @4.8/4.4---3866mhz--C16-16-16-36-2T---1.44v---SA 1.2v---IO---1.15v---GSAT 8 Hours


----------



## FrostyAMD

Anyone here overclocking Trident Z 3200 CL14 2x8 Gig set on Asus Maximus VIII Formula or Hero care to share their experiences i. e. what worked and what did not work ? Also best /stable clocks you were able to obtain ? I have gotten mine stale at defaults but had to raise voltages on dram to 1.3650 viccio to 1.2 ans sa to 1.2. Now I'd like to move forward hopefully to 3600 speed. Any and all help greatly appreciated


----------



## tistou77

I tested the G.Skill 3600 C15 that a friend lent me
And I must be really bad with the G.Skill, I can not stabilize









Currently I have Platinum SE 4x8gb 3200 14-14-14-28 1T at 1.355v
Tweak mode 2
Core 4400
Cache 3700
VCCIO : 1.05v
VCCSA : 1.008v

I tested the G.Skill 4x8gb (2 kits, the 4 serial numbers follow one another) at 3200 13-13-13-32 1T (all other timings in AUTO) at 1.355v
Tweak mode 2
Core 4000
Cache 3500
VCCIO : 1.05v
VCCSA : 1.008v (tested between 0.975v and 1.008v)

And this is not stable (error after 10% with HCI Memtest, 2mn with Aida64....)

Something I missed ?
My CPU that does not "support" this frequency/timings... ?


----------



## lilchronic

3200Mhz CL13-13-13-32-1T should be in the uncommon / obscure list. My kit needed close to 1.5v to stabilize that.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> 3200Mhz CL13-13-13-32-1T should be in the uncommon / obscure list. My kit needed close to 1.5v to stabilize that.


But it's kit 3600 15-15-15 1.35v, and it's possible to have 3200 13-13-13 (already seen)


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> But it's kit 3600 15-15-15 1.35v, and it's possible to have 3200 13-13-13 (already seen)


It's not everything about Ram..
Had ram stable...changed CPU ...had to change Ram OC...changed MB had to tweak Ram OC again


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's not about memory voltage. Seems you can only really lead a horse to water


voltage aside 3200Mhz cl13 is not common plain and simple.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> But it's kit 3600 15-15-15 1.35v, and it's possible to have 3200 13-13-13 (already seen)


So you have that kit running 3200Mhz cl13 on another system or you saw someone else running the same kit at 3200Mhz cl13 in the op?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> So you have that kit running 3200Mhz cl13 on another system or you saw someone else running the same kit at 3200Mhz cl13 in the op?


Yes, by Praz









Praz---R5E10-i7 6950X @ 4.2/3.5---3200MHz-32GB-C13-13-13-32-1T----CPU 1.256V---SA 0.976V---VCCIN 1.824V---HCI 550%---GSAT 2 Hours


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Yes, by Praz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Praz---R5E10-i7 6950X @ 4.2/3.5---3200MHz-32GB-C13-13-13-32-1T----CPU 1.256V---SA 0.976V---VCCIN 1.824V---HCI 550%---GSAT 2 Hours


He sold you that kit? just because he could do that dosent mean your sticks will do it.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> He sold you that kit? just because he could do that dosent mean your sticks will do it.


No it's not his kit, but the same








And the people who have tested this kit, get there without a problem (3200 C13 or 3400 C14)

With kit 3600 C16, I do 3200 C14 without problem
So if with kit 3600 C15, I can not do 3200 C13 ....


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> No it's not his kit, but the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the people who have tested this kit, get there without a problem (3200 C13 or 3400 C14)
> 
> With kit 3600 C16, I do 3200 C14 without problem
> So if with kit 3600 C15, I can not do 3200 C13 ....


Just because they are the same does not mean they will run the same timing's that other people are running.
If you got that kit from someone that was running those same sticks at 3200Mhz cl13 you should ask them what they did to get it stable.
If not just try more voltage.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Just because they are the same does not mean they will run the same timing's that other people are running.
> If you got that kit from someone that was running those same sticks at 3200Mhz cl13 you should ask them what they did to get it stable.
> If not just try more voltage.


This kit goes to 3200 C13 on my friend's PC at 1.35v but not the same platform


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> This kit goes to 3200 C13 on my friend's PC at 1.35v but not the same platform


Does that person have proof of stability with any of the test's in the op?
Maybe he could share that with you.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> It's not everything about Ram..
> Had ram stable...changed CPU ...had to change Ram OC...changed MB had to tweak Ram OC again


Why you completely ignore my post









I knew its all about this...and as said before! Even if he sells you he's ram and you apply same exact settings on same brand of MB and CPU it's not guaranteed to work!


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Does that person have proof of stability with any of the test's in the op?
> Maybe he could share that with you.


Tested with HCI Memtest
I will give back the kits to my friend, no one can help on any voltage, settings or other
I will test with the X299

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Why you completely ignore my post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew its all about this...and as said before! Even if he sells you he's ram and you apply same exact settings on same brand of MB and CPU it's not guaranteed to work!


Yes, it would be my CPU that does not "support" these timings / frequency
The ram is not in question unless it has a problem but that would surprise me
Works very well on the other platform


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Tested with HCI Memtest
> I will give back the kits to my friend, no one can help on any voltage, settings or other
> I will test with the X299
> Yes, it would be my CPU that does not "support" these timings / frequency
> The ram is not in question unless it has a problem but that would surprise me
> Works very well on the other platform


Yes and no, ram is much more permissive than cpu samples.. so a lot more could do those timings / freq...but not all!
If you take 2 ram modules, both B-dye, both from G.Skill...one 3600...one 4000...both have same components.. why are they sold at diff timings / freq ? cause they are binned...


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> No it's not his kit, but the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the people who have tested this kit, get there without a problem (3200 C13 or 3400 C14)
> 
> With kit 3600 C16, I do 3200 C14 without problem
> So if with kit 3600 C15, I can not do 3200 C13 ....


I do 3600 CL14 1.45v with all the extra timings very tight. Working perfectly for several months now. With 7700k at 5.1...and cheapo ASRock z270. Try my settings out.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dcdead*
> 
> With the much useful information from this thread I finally got my 3866 MHz on the M8H stable, I got 4000 stable too, but had to relax the subtimings so much, that the performance increase was marginal, but needed higher voltages, so I'll keep it at 3866 now.
> 
> *On the Z170M OC Formula, which the person, who i got these from had, the sticks ran stable at 4000 CL14 1T and 1.45V*
> 
> Sticks are Trident Z 3600 CL17
> 
> dcdead---i7 6700k @4.8/4.4---3866mhz--C16-16-16-36-2T---1.44v---SA 1.2v---IO---1.15v---GSAT 8 Hours


that's likely due to the MOCF reporting much lower voltage than measured by a DMM. On VDIMM it's close to 100mV higher actual ( so 1.45 was closer to 1.55V, and this is true for every voltage rail I measured vs bios set and OS reported). That said, the MOCF is/was an excellent z170 board.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's likely due to the MOCF reporting much lower voltage than measured by a DMM. On VDIMM it's close to 100mV higher actual ( so 1.45 was closer to 1.55V, and this is true for every voltage rail I measured vs bios set and OS reported). That said, the MOCF is/was an excellent z170 board.


That's strange testing mine now with 1.45v and i get 1.466-1.467v on the DMM

Vcore 1.42v - DMM 1.415v
VCCIO 1.150 - DMM 1.162
VCCSA 1.25v DMM 1.273

I see 10 - 20mV difference


----------



## dcdead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> He sold you that kit? just because he could do that dosent mean your sticks will do it.


It's a good friend of mine and I've seen it in action, but of course I did not expect them to do as well on a 4 slot board, quite happy with the result anyway.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's likely due to the MOCF reporting much lower voltage than measured by a DMM. On VDIMM it's close to 100mV higher actual ( so 1.45 was closer to 1.55V, and this is true for every voltage rail I measured vs bios set and OS reported). That said, the MOCF is/was an excellent z170 board.


That may be the case, but I guess most of it comes down to the optimized pcb and only 2 RAM slots. But I'm really happy with the M8H, even if it doesn't like 4000+ on the RAM and it only cost me 80€ on amazon WHD. Still looking for a MOCF though, but the prices are very unreasonable at the moment (300€+)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> That's strange testing mine now with 1.45v and i get 1.466-1.467v on the DMM
> 
> Vcore 1.42v - DMM 1.415v
> VCCIO 1.150 - DMM 1.162
> VCCSA 1.25v DMM 1.273
> 
> I see 10 - 20mV difference


check the bot.. websmile etc. the read point on the board are like 70mV low, from vdrop. can't do mine from the back anymore.. sold it to rt.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> check the bot.. websmile etc. the read point on the board are like 70mV low, from vdrop. can't do mine from the back anymore.. sold it to rt.


What these few post's here? http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=156368&page=25

Here's my testing for VDIMM on MOCF

bios - 1.35v - DMM - 1.351v
bios - 1.45v - DMM - 1.466v
bios - 1.55v - DMM - 1.576v
bios - 1.65v - DMM - 1.676v
bios - 1.75v - DMM - 1.781v
bios - 1.85v - DMM - 1.896v
bios - 1.9v - DMM - 1.951v

The higher you take the voltage the higher it will over shoot what you set in bios.


----------



## philologos

Hi everyone,

I have a question that I thought I'd post here since there seems to be a lot of collected knowledge.

I built a new system based on Kaby Lake the week it came out, and picked up 2x8GB of G.Skill Trident 3733. Everything was rock solid up to about a month ago, during an extended gaming session, when I blue screened. My computer would not POST after that - ending up on QCODE 55. I confirmed the memory was dead, after buying a cheap 4GB Crucial stick and booting successfully.

I noticed recently, that the auto voltages after enabling XMP were putting the SA and IO north of 1.3v and 1.25v, respectively. I would expect these voltages to stress the CPU rather than the memory, but does anyone know if they are dangers to the DIMMS themselves?

I got replacement DIMMs from G.Skill, manually adjusted SA to 1.2v and IO to 1.15v, and confirmed stability at 3733MHz CL17 (vDIMM = 1.35v).

I'm just trying to find the most likely cause for the sudden failure. I have had my system back for about a week, and I'm trying to relax about it blowing up again. I even considering running my memory @ JEDEC!


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philologos*
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a question that I thought I'd post here since there seems to be a lot of collected knowledge.
> 
> I built a new system based on Kaby Lake the week it came out, and picked up 2x8GB of G.Skill Trident 3733. Everything was rock solid up to about a month ago, during an extended gaming session, when I blue screened. My computer would not POST after that - ending up on QCODE 55. I confirmed the memory was dead, after buying a cheap 4GB Crucial stick and booting successfully.
> 
> I noticed recently, that the auto voltages after enabling XMP were putting the SA and IO north of 1.3v and 1.25v, respectively. I would expect these voltages to stress the CPU rather than the memory, but does anyone know if they are dangers to the DIMMS themselves?
> 
> I got replacement DIMMs from G.Skill, manually adjusted SA to 1.2v and IO to 1.15v, and confirmed stability at 3733MHz CL17 (vDIMM = 1.35v).
> 
> I'm just trying to find the most likely cause for the sudden failure. I have had my system back for about a week, and I'm trying to relax about it blowing up again. I even considering running my memory @ JEDEC!


Those SA and IO voltage isn't seen by the DIMMs directly so that wouldn't be the cause.


----------



## Frosted racquet

I think I might've damaged my RAM with an overclock and I'd appreciate if anyone more experienced can shed some light on this IMO curious case.

I'm running Kingston HyperX 2400MHz CL12 2x8GB HX424C12SBK2/16 on Maximus VIII Hero (from signature), which I've overclocked to 3000MHz 15-15-15-35 1T 1.35v which was apparently stable, passing GSAT 8h and 3000% HCI MemTest (several times, mind you). At some point, I'm guessing after upgrading the BIOS from 2202 to the KabyLake branch 3201, I would randomly get Memory_Management 0x1a BSODs on bootup, a few seconds after the desktop appears on Windows 10. From my estimate, one every 15 reboots I would get the BSOD and it would sometimes happen when freshly installing Windows. Sometimes, when a BSOD happens, one or two more BSODs would happen on consecutive boots.

I've retested with XMP and 2133MHz settings with CMOS cleared, however the same thing happens. Unfortunately, I can't revert to 2202 BIOS even with BIOS flashback as the MoBo states the BIOS file isn't a correct BIOS file. Currently, I'm on the unreleased 3504 BIOS which fixes the HT bug on SL/KL CPUs.
I've reproduced the issue on a clean Windows 10 install with no 3rd party drivers, on a different drive on a different SATA port, so it's not the drives or software. Checked whether the CPU has burnt LGA, but all is clear. Changed the DIMM from A2/B2 to A1/B1 but no change.

What's curious, once I boot correctly without a BSOD, I'd never get a BSOD when gaming, surfing and generally using the PC.
It also passes an overnight test with Memtest 86 and Memtest86+.

I've ordered a new set of RAM so I have a working PC when I send this kit for RMA, so I'll definately see if that's what the problem was.

Is it possible that it's caused by the OC, having in mind that I've never exceeded 1.37v during testing with most of the time it being set on 1.35v (which was default XMP value)?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> I think I might've damaged my RAM with an overclock and I'd appreciate if anyone more experienced can shed some light on this IMO curious case.
> 
> I'm running Kingston HyperX 2400MHz CL12 2x8GB HX424C12SBK2/16 on Maximus VIII Hero (from signature), which I've overclocked to 3000MHz 15-15-15-35 1T 1.35v which was apparently stable, passing GSAT 8h and 3000% HCI MemTest (several times, mind you). At some point, I'm guessing after upgrading the BIOS from 2202 to the KabyLake branch 3201, I would randomly get Memory_Management 0x1a BSODs on bootup, a few seconds after the desktop appears on Windows 10. From my estimate, one every 15 reboots I would get the BSOD and it would sometimes happen when freshly installing Windows. Sometimes, when a BSOD happens, one or two more BSODs would happen on consecutive boots.
> 
> I've retested with XMP and 2133MHz settings with CMOS cleared, however the same thing happens. Unfortunately, I can't revert to 2202 BIOS even with BIOS flashback as the MoBo states the BIOS file isn't a correct BIOS file. Currently, I'm on the unreleased 3504 BIOS which fixes the HT bug on SL/KL CPUs.
> I've reproduced the issue on a clean Windows 10 install with no 3rd party drivers, on a different drive on a different SATA port, so it's not the drives or software. Checked whether the CPU has burnt LGA, but all is clear. Changed the DIMM from A2/B2 to A1/B1 but no change.
> 
> What's curious, once I boot correctly without a BSOD, I'd never get a BSOD when gaming, surfing and generally using the PC.
> It also passes an overnight test with Memtest 86 and Memtest86+.
> 
> I've ordered a new set of RAM so I have a working PC when I send this kit for RMA, so I'll definately see if that's what the problem was.
> 
> Is it possible that it's caused by the OC, having in mind that I've never exceeded 1.37v during testing with most of the time it being set on 1.35v (which was default XMP value)?


It's rare for a DIMM to become faulty, and those voltages are perfectly fine. These things do happen, though. Seeing as you've purchased another kit, report back when you've tried it.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's rare for a DIMM to become faulty, and those voltages are perfectly fine. These things do happen, though. Seeing as you've purchased another kit, report back when you've tried it.


It'll be a couple of weeks most likely before I get the new kit as they don't have the ones I've wanted stocked.

One more thing I've noticed that might be related: sometimes the system would fail to boot with the MoBo displaying b1 code, which is "Runtime Set Virtual Address MAP End" according to the manual.
Would that code be an indicator of faulty RAM too?


----------



## awkwardstevie

hey guys

im using KHX2400C1D4/8GX single 8gb which is xmp 2400mhz 12-14-14-364-2T 1.35v or 2133mhz 13-13-13-360-1T 1.2
motherboard : asus z170 pro gaming

for now my config is :

2600mhz
14-14-14-32-338-1T
1.42v in bios
1.18 io
1.2 sa

what is most important in ram performance? What can i tweak to get better result?
I was trying to up ram voltage with 2t and trfc auto and using higher ram speed but everytest was failed


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> It'll be a couple of weeks most likely before I get the new kit as they don't have the ones I've wanted stocked.
> 
> One more thing I've noticed that might be related: sometimes the system would fail to boot with the MoBo displaying b1 code, which is "Runtime Set Virtual Address MAP End" according to the manual.
> Would that code be an indicator of faulty RAM too?


Altogether possible, but that code is normally due to a USB device. I would consider running HCI Memtest Pro at system defaults, too. Seeing as you only ran Memtest86


----------



## ogider

Ogider--i77700K @4.5/4.2---3600Mhz-C14-14-14-32-1T----1.424v---SA 1.152v---IO 1.168v--HCI 550%

Asus Z270F Gaming
x2 G Skill F4-3200C14-8GTZ



Ps.
I have secound setting ..3200MHz CL 13 13 13 28 1T 240 1.3920V

For 3600MHz I had to increase tRFC to 497. I m wonder which setting gonna be better for gaming.


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice work


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice work


hey scone.. check out the MT Pro launcher in this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1624603/rog-crosshair-vi-overclocking-thread/25360_20#post_26271844

Worked well on several rigs here. Might be a good add to the OP in both of your ram threads.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> hey scone.. check out the MT Pro launcher in this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1624603/rog-crosshair-vi-overclocking-thread/25360_20#post_26271844
> 
> Worked well on several rigs here. Might be a good add to the OP in both of your ram threads.


Nice, will have a look


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @4.3/3.5---3231Mhz-C16-16-16-36-2T----1.2625v---SA 0.8v---HCI 600% XMP Settings for G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW on ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.



I have been trying to tighten up the timing and bump the freq to 3300 ish but have not yet been able to get anything stable. About ready to rip my eyeballs out hehe. I can get 100s of configurations to boot and 90% of them pass AIDA65 benchmark, but none have been able to get past around 20% HCI. I have varied the VCCSA, VCCIO from 0.8 to 1.25, and DRAM Voltage from 1.3 to 1.5 taking small steps along the way.

My current settings are;


Anyone have any pointers?

System should be in my sig, as this is my first post hehe I'll check after I hit submit!


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected],2/4.5 --- 3866 c16-18-18-40-1T (2x8GB 3600c15 GS kit) @ 1.4V, SA=1.235V. HCI 1000%



secondary timings frm Raja's 4133 preset, (gonna see if 4133c16 can hold with up to 1,45V (seems very VSA dependent)


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected],2/4.5 --- 3866 c16-18-18-40-1T (2x8GB 3600c15 GS kit) @ 1.4V, SA=1.235V. HCI 1000%
> 
> 
> 
> secondary timings frm Raja's 4133 preset, (gonna see if 4133c16 can hold with up to 1,45V (seems very VSA dependent)


Still think 3600 is the sweet spot?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Still think 3600 is the sweet spot?


3866 is not needing jacked VSA or VCCIO... I should be able to get it down to 16-16-16 (same as on the z270 apex/7700K). May need to swap ram sticks around to see









edit: I just noticed that TVC didn;t read the bios settings correctly. (sometimes cpuZ can do that).


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 3866 is not needing jacked VSA or VCCIO... I should be able to get it down to 16-16-16 (same as on the z270 apex/7700K). May need to swap ram sticks around to see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: I just noticed that TVC didn;t read the bios settings correctly. (sometimes cpuZ can do that).


Keep us posted.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected],2/4.5 --- 3866 c16-18-18-40-1T (2x8GB 3600c15 GS kit) @ 1.4V, SA=1.235V. HCI 1000%
> 
> 
> 
> secondary timings frm Raja's 4133 preset, (gonna see if 4133c16 can hold with up to 1,45V (seems very VSA dependent)


I'm really looking forward to this board. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> I'm really looking forward to this board. Thanks for sharing.


yeah, i think you are gonna like this one for sure.


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @4.3/3.5---3312Mhz-C14-15-14-32-1T----1.26562v---SA 0.9625v---VCCIO CPU 1.250v---HCI 675% G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW on ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.



Was able to get this one to pass finally, had to loosen up a few timings and bang my head into the wall a few times. Every attempt to go over 3300 was met with me having to do a cmos reset heh. Think I will leave well enough alone and just use these as my 24/7. I may bump up the CPU a little more though. I am only at like 50-61 deg C at full load, most of the cores are great, just have 2 problem ones hehe, Core 0-5, 51, 50, 58, 55, 61, 53 deg C. Might consider deliding but have not made up my mind yet.

Had the VCCIO on Auto and it was set pretty high 1.25, working on bringing it down now, boots ok at 1.05, HCI testing it now.


----------



## Jpmboy

hey SCone, plz skip the above post....

jpmboy ---- [email protected] ---- 3866 c16-16-16-38-1T @ 1.4V. SA 1.22V, VCCIO 1.195V (2x8GB 3600c15 kit) 1h GSAT


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> hey SCone, plz skip the above post....
> 
> jpmboy ---- [email protected] ---- 3866 c16-16-16-38-1T @ 1.4V. SA 1.22V, VCCIO 1.195V (2x8GB 3600c15 kit) 1h GSAT


Nice chip


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice chip


lol - not as nice as yours.








I think a delid would uncork the thing, and then it may actually be a better overclocker than my 7700K.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - not as nice as yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a delid would uncork the thing, and then it may actually be a better overclocker than my 7700K.


heh, more testing is needed with mine, but on the memory side it seems really good - time will tell. Will post up some results over the week


----------



## AyeYo

Without reading all 463 pages... how high is the probability of getting a full 4 sticks stable at at least 3200mhz with a 7700k? 16gb just isn't enough for me, but I'd prefer to not sacrifice a ton of speed to up the RAM amount.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeYo*
> 
> Without reading all 463 pages... how high is the probability of getting a full 4 sticks stable at at least 3200mhz with a 7700k? 16gb just isn't enough for me, but I'd prefer to not sacrifice a ton of speed to up the RAM amount.


With rated modules, those speeds are plug and play on that platform.


----------



## AyeYo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> With rated modules, those speeds are plug and play on that platform.


That hasn't been my experience. Even with two sticks 3200mhz was not plug and play with XMP (unless I closed my eyes and went along with the motherboard's insanely high auto voltages).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeYo*
> 
> That hasn't been my experience. Even with two sticks 3200mhz was not plug and play with XMP (unless I closed my eyes and went along with the motherboard's insanely high auto voltages).


That's a bit of a contradiction. Not sure what board you're referring to, but auto rules for those speeds shouldn't be high at all.


----------



## AyeYo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's a bit of a contradiction. Not sure what board you're referring to, but auto rules for those speeds shouldn't be high at all.


The platform only officially supports 2400mhz. Anything beyond that is an overclock, even though it's technically an easy OC with XMP. There's no guarantee that XMP will work, especially with 4 sticks. That's my concern.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeYo*
> 
> The platform only officially supports 2400mhz. Anything beyond that is an overclock, even though it's technically an easy OC with XMP. There's no guarantee that XMP will work, especially with 4 sticks. That's my concern.


You said it worked for you until you adjusted voltage manually, which means you also found it to be plug and play. There are no guarantees no, but I'm not sure what your point is - sounds like you're asking for assurances. It does depend on the board, but most should have no problems with those speeds.

Even if XMP does not work, dialing it in should not be an issue. Perhaps come back if you do experience problems.


----------



## AyeYo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You said it worked for you until you adjusted voltage manually, which means you also found it to be plug and play. There are no guarantees no, but I'm not sure what your point is - sounds like you're asking for assurances. It does depend on the board, but most should have no problems with those speeds.
> 
> Even if XMP does not work, dialing it in should not be an issue. Perhaps come back if you do experience problems.


My question is simple... so let me restate it:

How often are people achieving 3200mhz with 4x8gb on a 7700k? Is it very common, 50/50, rare, unheard of, etc? It certainly isn't "plug and play" - only 2400mhz is plug and play.

The fact that 3200mhz with 2x8gb worked with XMP isn't sufficient. It worked with CPU frying IO and SA voltages that were auto set. I was able to bring them back to reality and still have stability, but it's made me well aware of the fact that XMP is hardly "set and forget".


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeYo*
> 
> My question is simple... so let me restate it:
> 
> How often are people achieving 3200mhz with 4x8gb on a 7700k? Is it very common, 50/50, rare, unheard of, etc? It certainly isn't "plug and play" - only 2400mhz is plug and play.
> 
> The fact that 3200mhz with 2x8gb worked with XMP isn't sufficient. It worked with CPU frying IO and SA voltages that were auto set. I was able to bring them back to reality and still have stability, but it's made me well aware of the fact that XMP is hardly "set and forget".


Hello

3200MHz plug n' play? Very common. If absurd voltages are being set with XMP at that frequency either don't use that option or purchase a board that sets more realistic voltages.


----------



## hhuey5

on x299 128gb mb

can i upgrade in 2 attempts at 64gb (4x16gb) at time
i heard in quad channel you could upgrade 4 sticks at time
a1 b1 c1 d1
a2 b2 c2 d2

of course I think mfr would like one to get all 8 sticks at once
but some users just can't do it


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeYo*
> 
> Without reading all 463 pages... how high is the probability of getting a full 4 sticks stable at at least 3200mhz with a 7700k? 16gb just isn't enough for me, but I'd prefer to not sacrifice a ton of speed to up the RAM amount.


3200 with 3200 sticks (all the same kit - not mixed kits) should be straight forward, without enabling XMP at all. just enter the primary timings manually and set the voltage. VCCSA ~ 1.2 and VCCIO ! 1.18V should be plenty and can probably go lower. With a 7700K and a decent MB, 3600-3866 should be routine (even off of a 3200c14 kit)


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @4.3/3.5---3312Mhz-C14-15-14-32-1T----VCore 1.26562v---VDRAM 1.400v---SA 0.9625v---VCCIO CPU 1.050v---HCI 947.5% G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW on ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.



So I took VCCIO off of Auto and tested it at 1.050, passed so I think thats it for now. I might take a rest for a week or so then maybe mess with the timing again, but maybe not lol. Took a long time to find anything that would stabilize heheh.


----------



## Silent Scone

Just settling in with the Apex. Was having a few chronic DPC latency issues which are now resolved.

4x8GB Bdie 4000Mhz 1.4v preset with lowered primaries.

Silent [email protected]/3.0---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-41-1T---1.400v---SA 0.960v---IO 1v---W10GSAT 1 Hour---F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ


----------



## kevindd992002

Will DDR4 RAM modules be different for the upcoming Coffee Lake systems compared to Kaby Lake?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Will DDR4 RAM modules be different for the upcoming Coffee Lake systems compared to Kaby Lake?


The modules themselves aren't specific to any one particular platform, it's down to the memory vendors what IC is used. Most Z270 and Z170 kits should work just fine.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The modules themselves aren't specific to any one particular platform, it's down to the memory vendors what IC is used. Most Z270 and Z170 kits should work just fine.


Right. I guess what I was asking is if the Z370 platform support higher DDR4 RAM clocks compared to the Z270?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Right. I guess what I was asking is if the Z370 platform support higher DDR4 RAM clocks compared to the Z270?


I'd expect there to be some IMC improvements, sure. Wouldn't expect too much in terms of raw frequency, though


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just settling in with the Apex. Was having a few chronic DPC latency issues which are now resolved.
> 
> 4x8GB Bdie 4000Mhz 1.4v preset with lowered primaries.
> 
> Silent [email protected]/3.0---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-41-1T---1.400v---SA 0.960v---IO 1v---W10GSAT 1 Hour---F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ


bro - that's crazy good! 4000c16 with a 10 core? That's a super good chip!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> bro - that's crazy good! 4000c16 with a 10 core? That's a super good chip!


Although yes, it's impressive - it's not an exception! Most should be able to do those speeds so I am told by OCUK


----------



## EDK-TheONE

Yesterday i overclocked my ram ripjaws 4 2666 CL15 16gb to 3600 CL18. after 1300% men test, only one error occurred in one of instance of launch i noticed it occurred on 550%. so is it unstable for daily use or not?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EDK-TheONE*
> 
> Yesterday i overclocked my ram ripjaws 4 2666 CL15 16gb to 3600 CL18. after 1300% men test, only one error occurred in one of instance of launch i noticed it occurred on 550%. so is it unstable for daily use or not?


Memory errors are memory errors, but will naturally depend on how memory intensive your daily workflow is


----------



## Silent Scone

All recent entries updated


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'd expect there to be some IMC improvements, sure. Wouldn't expect too much in terms of raw frequency, though


What I bought for the 7700K platform is the G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3200MHz. Do you think I'm good with retaining that and just OC the hell out of it?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Although yes, it's impressive - it's not an exception! Most should be able to do those speeds so I am told by OCUK


yeah, 4000 and 3866 are fine on this 4 core... 4266 has been by bclk only for me. 4266 ratio seems bad (q 26, not q 2b every time) Maybe Praz or Raja can chime in.
4000c16 same timings as you ended up with. (tWCL 16?)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, 4000 and 3866 are fine on this 4 core... 4266 has been by bclk only for me. 4266 ratio seems bad (q 26, not q 2b every time) Maybe Praz or Raja can chime in.
> 4000c16 same timings as you ended up with. (tWCL 16?)


I've lowered write latency to 12 since then, passes GSAT no trouble (1.4v)


----------



## EDK-TheONE

ripjaws 4 16GB(4x4GB) 2666 CL15 SA/IO:1.220v Dram: 1.376v


Any suggestion for improvement?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, 4000 and 3866 are fine on this 4 core... 4266 has been by bclk only for me. 4266 ratio seems bad (q 26, not q 2b every time) Maybe Praz or Raja can chime in.
> 4000c16 same timings as you ended up with. (tWCL 16?)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hello

Nothing I can add. The CPU I have is not capable of anything over 3733MHz on the memory.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Nothing I can add. The CPU I have is not capable of anything over 3733MHz on the memory.


Damn, perhaps 8-Pack was exaggerating somewhat in that case.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What I bought for the 7700K platform is the G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3200MHz. Do you think I'm good with retaining that and just OC the hell out of it?


@Silent Scone, you might've missed this post?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> 
> Hello
> 
> Nothing I can add. The CPU I have is not capable of anything over 3733MHz on the memory.


Are you using the Apex?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Damn, perhaps 8-Pack was exaggerating somewhat in that case.


.. you have a good cpu sample there buddy.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Are you using the Apex?


he could be by now...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1635170/asus-x299-motherboard-series-official-support-thread/360_20#post_26293950


----------



## lilchronic

I've been noticing all the x299 8+ core chips were not running 4000Mhz cl12 on HWbot maxing out out 3866Mhz

.... till i saw coolice's runs.
he got dat apex








http://hwbot.org/user/coolice/


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I've been noticing all the x299 8+ core chips were not running 4000Mhz cl12 on HWbot maxing out out 3866Mhz
> 
> .... till i saw coolice's runs.
> he got dat apex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/user/coolice/


lol - I hope to see if an 18 core can do 4000c12


----------



## EDK-TheONE

EDK-TheONE--i7-7700K @4.9/4.5---3600Mhz-C17-19-19-38-2T----1.376v---SA 1.24v---IO 1.22v---HCI 1080%
Memory: F4-2666C15Q-16GRR - G.Skill


----------



## vmanuelgm

[email protected] Aorus Gaming [email protected] [email protected] (32GB GSkill 3600CL15) VCCSA-0.875v VCCIO-1.025v 500% HCI Memtest Pro

Not bad this Gaming 9...

Just in case...



*[email protected]@Gigabyte Aorus Gaming [email protected] [email protected] (32GB GSkill 3600CL15) VCCSA-0.875v VCCIO-1.025v 1000% HCI Memtest Pro*


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] Aorus Gaming [email protected] [email protected] (32GB GSkill 3600CL15) VCCSA-0.875v VCCIO-1.025v 500% HCI Memtest Pro
> 
> Not bad this Gaming 9...
> 
> Just in case...
> 
> 
> 
> *[email protected]@Gigabyte Aorus Gaming [email protected] [email protected] (32GB GSkill 3600CL15) VCCSA-0.875v VCCIO-1.025v 1000% HCI Memtest Pro*


Nice result


----------



## chibi

^ I wonder if we'll have a 2017 battle of the memes between you and manuel for x299


----------



## Silent Scone

LOL


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice result


Yours @4000 is very very nice too!!!









I got 4000, 500%!!!



*[email protected]@Giga Gaming [email protected] 4000 [email protected] Vccio-1025v VCCSA-0.900v--HCI Memtest Pro 500%*

Have to admit I had a good time in our past memes battle,


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice.

On a tangent, I did try to work on 4200Mhz over the weekend. After a few tweaks I managed to get GSAT to start running through, but only ever managed around 5 minutes before the system would hang. I doubt we'll see any results at that speed from what I've been told. Very few will have the IMC to do it for anything other than benchmarks.


----------



## vmanuelgm

My pc wont post at 4200... Maybe one golden piece could reach that speed...









Any news about the 7920x??? I thought it had to be released yesterday...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> My pc wont post at 4200... Maybe one golden piece could reach that speed...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any news about the 7920x??? I thought it had to be released yesterday...


The Apex / Extreme / OCF is probably needed for play time with those speeds.

Not sure on the 7920x, they were listed last week on a couple of sites in the UK but quickly removed. I'm sure it won't be long.


----------



## vmanuelgm

The apex will help for sure since its very capable speaking of memory speeds and latency. Only UK has it in stock.

Would have liked an apex with integrated shield and some more extras, on the other hand!!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice.
> 
> On a tangent, I did try to work on 4200Mhz over the weekend. After a few tweaks I managed to get GSAT to start running through, but only ever managed around 5 minutes before the system would hang. I doubt we'll see any results at that speed from what I've been told. Very few will have the IMC to do it for anything other than benchmarks.


I can't get 4266 to post at all q 26, not 2b (7740X). One thing I did notice, is the instability reduced (lol) by raising PLL Bandwidth a bit when reaching >= 4200 via bclk.


----------



## kevindd992002

@Silent Scone

Ok, you obviously did not want to anwer my question. Thanks anyway.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> @Silent Scone
> 
> Ok, you obviously did not want to anwer my question. Thanks anyway.


your 3200c14 gskill kit is fine.. yep, OC the helloutof it.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> @Silent Scone, you might've missed this post?


Hi Kevin, sorry I genuinely did miss your posts, wasn't intentional. It's GSKILL so should scale well, just let us know how you get on


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Hi Kevin, sorry I genuinely did miss your posts, wasn't intentional. It's GSKILL so should scale well, just let us know how you get on


Oh ok, no worries







So with a 8700K, theoretically I should be able to overclock it further.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok, no worries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So with a 8700K, theoretically I should be able to overclock it further.


Who knows, can only speculate on Cofeelake. That kit will be fine either way, GSKILL is by far the best vendor on the market for getting your money's worth at 'lower' bins


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Who knows, can only speculate on Cofeelake. That kit will be fine either way, GSKILL is by far the best vendor on the market for getting your money's worth at 'lower' bins


Ok. Is 3200C14 considered a "lower" bin though? I thought that's one of the higher bins already.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok. Is 3200C14 considered a "lower" bin though? I thought that's one of the higher bins already.


Meant in terms of frequency, don't read too much into it. My 4x8bdie 3200 kit does 4000C16 in quad channel.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Meant in terms of frequency, don't read too much into it. My 4x8bdie 3200 kit does 4000C16 in quad channel.


Oh ok, so the only thing in significant play is still silicon lottery


----------



## becks

Silicon of the CPU has a remarkable impact as well..
2 Different CPU's on same PC might or might not give same result.
One runs 3733 one does not like it even at 1.5+ v.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Here goes the promised 1000%...



*[email protected]@Giga Aorus Gaming [email protected] 4000 [email protected]@1.38v (32GB G.SKill 3600CL15) VCCIO--1.014v VCCSA--0.850v HCI Memtest Pro 1000%*


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Here goes the promised 1000%...
> 
> 
> 
> *[email protected]@Giga Aorus Gaming [email protected] 4000 q[email protected]@1.38v (32GB G.SKill 3600CL15) VCCIO--1.014v VCCSA--0.850v HCI Memtest Pro 1000%*


Nice, can I ask what version of AIDA that is?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Latest beta... But still says it is not fully compatible when test is finished...

Reached 1200%, gonna stop it since I guess its fully stable, isn't it???


----------



## pillowsack

Hey guys,

I have two kits of Vegeance RED LED 3200 2x8GB. I have no idea what to do with broadwell-e versus haswell-e to get this overclocked or running into a wall?

Does anyone know what die my ram might be?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I have two kits of Vegeance RED LED 3200 2x8GB. I have no idea what to do with broadwell-e versus haswell-e to get this overclocked or running into a wall?
> 
> Does anyone know what die my ram might be?


Have a look at this review:

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7832/corsair-vengeance-led-ddr4-3200-32gb-ram-kit-review/index.html
https://www.tweaktown.com/image.php?image=imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/7/8/7832_07_corsair-vengeance-led-ddr4-3200-32gb-ram-kit-review_full.jpg

Seems like the chips are Samsung B-Die...

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427

B-die a.k.a K4A8G085WB


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Latest beta... But still says it is not fully compatible when test is finished...
> 
> Reached 1200%, gonna stop it since I guess its fully stable, isn't it???


You mean totally?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Yep, I mean completely stable, xDDD

1200 enough???










PS: Its a Giga Gaming 9, not an Apex... More credits for me!!! xDDD


----------



## pillowsack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Have a look at this review:
> 
> https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7832/corsair-vengeance-led-ddr4-3200-32gb-ram-kit-review/index.html
> https://www.tweaktown.com/image.php?image=imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/7/8/7832_07_corsair-vengeance-led-ddr4-3200-32gb-ram-kit-review_full.jpg
> 
> Seems like the chips are Samsung B-Die...
> 
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427
> 
> B-die a.k.a K4A8G085WB


Judging by that and how I'm on a sabertooth x99, do you think it should be capable of hitting 3400 or 3600, even tighter timings? Is the voltage safe at 1.5+?


----------



## becks

Nothing has ever driven me crazy like RAM OC!!!
Now after finally changing all parts (CPU...PSU...GPU....done new WC loop, etc.) I finally got back to OC RAM...

With the last CPU I was stable at 3733 @1.395 with a 32 GB Kit on a M8I mobo (2x16gb 3200 G.Skill) 16-16-28-1t..
I mainly pushed it so high cause I want low latency (40.5-41ms) and high copy bandwidth 50 mb/s.

Now I can't get my head around this ....again...
I am using memtest Pro... and as I push VCIO and SA up I get less and less errors...up to a point...
Than if I raise D-Ram V as well ... I get more stable in memtest but find it more harder to boot... constantly failing with q-code 55 (after 1.425 and up)
If I get V lower 1.390-1.395 I get correct boot every time...but fail memtest in the first 10 mins...
If I get V higher than 1.415 I fail boot 6/7 times...but the one time it boots in OS ....it fails memtest only after 40-80 mins...

I know VCIO and SA are on a wave pattern like and you have to find the sweet spot ...but at this point I feel I tried every single combination possible....
Any suggestions ?

(Note: I lowered CPU from 5.2 Core / 5 Uncore -1 Avx to 5.1 Core / 4.9 Uncore - No avx -- still no change )


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Yep, I mean completely stable, xDDD
> 
> 1200 enough???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Its a Giga Gaming 9, not an Apex... More credits for me!!! xDDD


Well you've not shown any errors this time, so yes


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Nothing has ever driven me crazy like RAM OC!!!
> Now after finally changing all parts (CPU...PSU...GPU....done new WC loop, etc.) I finally got back to OC RAM...
> 
> With the last CPU I was stable at 3733 @1.395 with a 32 GB Kit on a M8I mobo (2x16gb 3200 G.Skill) 16-16-28-1t..
> I mainly pushed it so high cause I want low latency (40.5-41ms) and high copy bandwidth 50 mb/s.
> 
> Now I can't get my head around this ....again...
> I am using memtest Pro... and as I push VCIO and SA up I get less and less errors...up to a point...
> Than if I raise D-Ram V as well ... I get more stable in memtest but find it more harder to boot... constantly failing with q-code 55 (after 1.425 and up)
> If I get V lower 1.390-1.395 I get correct boot every time...but fail memtest in the first 10 mins...
> If I get V higher than 1.415 I fail boot 6/7 times...but the one time it boots in OS ....it fails memtest only after 40-80 mins...
> 
> I know VCIO and SA are on a wave pattern like and you have to find the sweet spot ...but at this point I feel I tried every single combination possible....
> Any suggestions ?
> 
> (Note: I lowered CPU from 5.2 Core / 5 Uncore -1 Avx to 5.1 Core / 4.9 Uncore - No avx -- still no change )


Although these settings are normally not needed, you can try setting boot voltages under Extreme Tweaker for both of those rails.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Although these settings are normally not needed, you can try setting boot voltages under Extreme Tweaker for both of those rails.


Thanks for the suggestion.
Is there a rule for how high / low / maximum you can go with this boot V ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.
> Is there a rule for how high / low / maximum you can go with this boot V ?


Same limits as eventual voltages, all you need do first is set a DRAM boot voltage that already gives you the most consistent results at POST, which you already know given the above post. DRAM Boot voltage is found under the Tweakers Paradise menu.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> Judging by that and how I'm on a sabertooth x99, do you think it should be capable of hitting 3400 or 3600, even tighter timings? Is the voltage safe at 1.5+?


With a nice Broadwell-e cpu (a good IMC) it would be possible, in fact I had a 6950x and these G.Skill 3600CL15 at 3400CL14 completely stable (see obscure/uncommon tab in first post).

In regards to voltage, I usually set less than 1.4v, so for 3400 it should be enough. Also, for memory overclocking, Rampage mobos are preferred!!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Well you've not shown any errors this time, so yes


Great!!!

Are you gonna add it to skylake x tab or uncommon???


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> With a nice Broadwell-e cpu (a good IMC) it would be possible, in fact I had a 6950x and these G.Skill 3600CL15 at 3400CL14 completely stable (see obscure/uncommon tab in first post).
> 
> In regards to voltage, I usually set less than 1.4v, so for 3400 it should be enough. Also, for memory overclocking, Rampage mobos are preferred!!!
> Great!!!
> 
> Are you gonna add it to skylake x tab or uncommon???


I'll let you know


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Nothing has ever driven me crazy like RAM OC!!!
> Now after finally changing all parts (CPU...PSU...GPU....done new WC loop, etc.) I finally got back to OC RAM...
> 
> With the last CPU I was stable at 3733 @1.395 with a 32 GB Kit on a M8I mobo (2x16gb 3200 G.Skill) 16-16-28-1t..
> I mainly pushed it so high cause I want low latency (40.5-41ms) and high copy bandwidth 50 mb/s.
> 
> Now I can't get my head around this ....again...
> I am using memtest Pro... and as I push VCIO and SA up I get less and less errors...up to a point...
> Than if I raise D-Ram V as well ... I get more stable in memtest but find it more harder to boot... constantly failing with q-code 55 (after 1.425 and up)
> If I get V lower 1.390-1.395 I get correct boot every time...but fail memtest in the first 10 mins...
> If I get V higher than 1.415 I fail boot 6/7 times...but the one time it boots in OS ....it fails memtest only after 40-80 mins...
> 
> I know VCIO and SA are on a wave pattern like and you have to find the sweet spot ...but at this point I feel I tried every single combination possible....
> Any suggestions ?
> 
> (Note: I lowered CPU from 5.2 Core / 5 Uncore -1 Avx to 5.1 Core / 4.9 Uncore - No avx -- still no change )


4.9 is still rather high on cache. Maybe drop to 4.6 to eliminate that factor. IMO Id try 2T next. Could be other settings, but most likely those 2. Writing from RO xD


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Well you've not shown any errors this time, so yes


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I'll let you know


Would be great see me in normal tabs for the first time!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

There's nothing unusual about the result







. Soon we can perhaps talk about moving you to a low-security wing.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Depends on the average of the speeds reached by these skylakes. Praz said his unit (dont know exactly which one) couldn`t reach more than 3733, so we'll see if all the cpus are fully stable at 4000 (or above).


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> 4.9 is still rather high on cache. Maybe drop to 4.6 to eliminate that factor. IMO Id try 2T next. Could be other settings, but most likely those 2. Writing from RO xD


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Same limits as eventual voltages, all you need do first is set a DRAM boot voltage that already gives you the most consistent results at POST, which you already know given the above post. DRAM Boot voltage is found under the Tweakers Paradise menu.


Getting closer and closer ...managed to get an error only at about 280%-290% last night with x16 instances of memtest pro open (1768 x 16)
Seems like it's doable (3733 on a 16x2 Gb Kit ) but requires hell of a lot of tweaks and what not...and I am more than sure I will flip it off again when I try and push the CPU back at 5.2/5.2 no avx


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Depends on the average of the speeds reached by these skylakes. Praz said his 7900x couldn`t reach 3800, so we'll see if all the cpus are fully stable at 4000 (or above).


Not sure, I think 4000 should be fairly universal with some exceptions, going by what OCUK have found.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Getting closer and closer ...managed to get an error only at about 280%-290% last night with x16 instances of memtest pro open (1768 x 16)
> Seems like it's doable (3733 on a 16x2 Gb Kit ) but requires hell of a lot of tweaks and what not...and I am more than sure I will flip it off again when I try and push the CPU back at 5.2/5.2 no avx


You're pushing the cache too hard as has already been suggested, dial it back. Also there should be one instance per thread.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You're pushing the cache too hard as has already been suggested, dial it back. Also there should be one instance per thread.


I used 16 x 1768 = 28288 used from 32.000 available so I can have 90%+ of memory tested
If I try and use 8 x 3536 (1768 x 2 ) memtest pro trows me an error saying it can't test more than 2700 something ram / instance ( at work... don't have the exact figures in front of me)
If I try 8 x 2700 something = 21.000 - 22.000 which is less than 90%....


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Not sure, I think 4000 should be fairly universal with some exceptions, going by what OCUK have found.


Post an aida bandwidth test to see the APEX shine...


----------



## Silent Scone

Depends on your definition of shine. I don't get caught up on those types of things, especially when they're not apples to apples. I'm not pushing uncore as far as you. I could post some Billy Bull numbers with various settings, but it doesn't really tell you anything worth knowing.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Just curiosity and research of reasons to purchase the APEX, xDDD

Dont be so serious and post an Aida, please!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Just curiosity and research of reasons to purchase the APEX, xDDD
> 
> Dont be so serious and post an Aida, please!!!


Unless I try and do it telepathically, won't be able to till later. I'm currently at work, I know that's not something that people find themselves doing in Spain


----------



## vmanuelgm

It was too perfect to be true...









In Spain people work as much or more than in UK... We like "fiesta" but we work too. But if u are happy thinking that way, enjoy!!!

People also build computers to work, not only for gaming or benching!!!

When u get home, release that beast!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> It was too perfect to be true...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Spain people work as much or more than in UK... We like "fiesta" but we work too. But if u are happy thinking that way, enjoy!!!
> 
> People also build computers to work, not only for gaming or benching!!!


Don't be so serious









Will post up some AIDA benchmarks later


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


So I went back in this tread and did some digging.... and all who submitted i7 7700k results with 32GB Ram only used 60-70% of their ram... and had only 8 instances loaded...
Me being the only one pushing 90% ++ on 16 instances of memtest... so yea...

Will submit some results over the weekend hopefully....

NOTE: Do you think it will be possible in the future to add links in the Google doc to each submission so that for someone "like me" to be much more easy to find the information I was looking for ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> So I went back in this tread and did some digging.... and all who submitted i7 7700k results with 32GB Ram only used 60-70% of their ram... and had only 8 instances loaded...
> Me being the only one pushing 90% ++ on 16 instances of memtest... so yea...
> Will submit some results over the weekend hopefully....
> NOTE: Do you think it will be possible in the future to add links in the Google doc to each submission so that for someone "like me" to be much more easy to find the information I was looking for ?


with 32GB of ram and the 7700K you really should be using gsat. HCi just takes too long and when you exceed the actual thread count, scheduling has got to drag things down further. Have you tried the HCi pro launcher?

MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> with 32GB of ram and the 7700K you really should be using gsat. HCi just takes too long and when you exceed the actual thread count, scheduling has got to drag things down further. Have you tried the HCi pro launcher?
> 
> MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


Hey buddy! glad to have you here








No I have not...tough they removed it in version 5.0 and up...
Will try later, and if not gsat under OS







although, just a personal opinion I like memtest pro more, especially now that I paid for it


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> So I went back in this tread and did some digging.... and all who submitted i7 7700k results with 32GB Ram only used 60-70% of their ram... and had only 8 instances loaded...
> Me being the only one pushing 90% ++ on 16 instances of memtest... so yea...
> 
> Will submit some results over the weekend hopefully....
> 
> NOTE: Do you think it will be possible in the future to add links in the Google doc to each submission so that for someone "like me" to be much more easy to find the information I was looking for ?


Spanish origins maybe???


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*


Spanish speaking - Yes..
Spanish Origin - No...

Latin! -- YES!









Actually Romanian, living the British dream in South England. Long live the Queen! (Every 2 or so years when I go back home I get reminded why the F*** I left in the first place







)


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Spanish speaking - Yes..
> Spanish Origin - No...
> 
> Latin! -- YES!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Romanian, living the British dream in South England. Long live the Queen! (Every 2 or so years when I go back home I get reminded why the F*** I left in the first place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


In Scone's mind spanish guys don't work and are "living la vida loca" every day. Thats why he makes things harder for me, I have to make an effort to satisfy his stability demands!!! xDDD

Scone, what do u opine about romanians working in UK???


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> In Scone's mind spanish guys don't work and are "living la vida loca" every day. Thats why he makes things harder for me, I have to make an effort to satisfy his stability demands!!! xDDD
> 
> Scone, what do u opine about romanians working in UK???


Lawd almighty, I haven't even had my morning coffee yet and this guy is already giving me cramps


----------



## becks

The Pro Launcher gives me same error..so I will go ahead with Gsat..
I am sure there is a way around it but i'm in a rush now..

Here is the original error message:

Windows limits the amount of contiguous RAM MemTest can allocate. To test all your RAM you need to run more than one copy of MemTest simultaneously.
This copy of MemTest has allocated all of the RAM Windows will allow it: 2477MB.
Click OK to start another copy of MemTest and have it test the rest of your RAM.
Click Cancel if you want to do this manually.

If I click Yes or Cancel same result - does not test the correct amount of ram, and I end up with 9+ gb of RAM unused


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> So I went back in this tread and did some digging.... and all who submitted i7 7700k results with 32GB Ram only used 60-70% of their ram... and had only 8 instances loaded...
> Me being the only one pushing 90% ++ on 16 instances of memtest... so yea...
> 
> Will submit some results over the weekend hopefully....
> 
> NOTE: Do you think it will be possible in the future to add links in the Google doc to each submission so that for someone "like me" to be much more easy to find the information I was looking for ?


Have you lowered the uncore as suggested?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> In Scone's mind spanish guys don't work and are "living la vida loca" every day. Thats why he makes things harder for me, I have to make an effort to satisfy his stability demands!!! xDDD
> 
> Scone, what do u opine about romanians working in UK???


It's very easy to hit a nerve with you, that's why you're so much fun








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> with 32GB of ram and the 7700K you really should be using gsat. HCi just takes too long and when you exceed the actual thread count, scheduling has got to drag things down further. Have you tried the HCi pro launcher?
> 
> MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


I did try to add this to the OP, but once again I'm no longer able to amend it.


----------



## vmanuelgm

https://orig12.deviantart.net/6f85/f/2008/201/b/b/why_so_serious__by_tyrite.jpg
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's very easy to hit a nerve with you, that's why you're so much fun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


"El toro español entra al trapo" being, more or less, the spanish bull chases the red cloth for sure!!!

Gotta thank me for these spanish lessons, I know u love it!!!


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


You know there are those people who tell the difference between 120 and 144 mhz on a screen ?
I can tell the difference between RAM at 3733 or 3600 just by going into the OS








Same with cache...its just something upsetting about not having cache at 5.0 ++

Anyhow...tried to please everyone so for the sake of testing...
I just passed 2h Gsat with cache at 4.8 RAM @3733 1.395..1.137 VCIO...1.15 SA

Trying same setting just by changing cache up to 5.0 now


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> https://orig12.deviantart.net/6f85/f/2008/201/b/b/why_so_serious__by_tyrite.jpg
> "El toro español entra al trapo" being, more or less, the spanish bull chases the red cloth for sure!!!
> 
> Gotta thank me for these spanish lessons, I know u love it!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> You know there are those people who tell the difference between 120 and 144 mhz on a screen ?
> I can tell the difference between RAM at 3733 or 3600 just by going into the OS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same with cache...its just something upsetting about not having cache at 5.0 ++
> 
> Anyhow...tried to please everyone so for the sake of testing...
> I just passed 2h Gsat with cache at 4.8 RAM @3733 1.395..1.137 VCIO...1.15 SA
> 
> Trying same setting just by changing cache up to 5.0 now


It's probably worthwhile to point out at this stage that GSAT is less likely to find any cache instability, however, HCI is. Your OCD might have to take a backseat so you can be more realistic


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


I know...I will be old and get Dementia....

2 things to note...
1st Just realised I had CPU at 1.35v the whole past days while I was playing with RAM for some reason








2nd No matter what I do in this damn Bios on the M8I the uncore never jumps over 48 in OS ( hwinfo64... and others read..)

and 3rd... I failed gsat at 5.0 bios uncore...so I better leave it at 48 for now...maybe try and push it a bit with bclk... will see


----------



## Silent Scone

@vmanuelgm

Couple for you here, one with 3Ghz cache @ 0.990v, the other at 3.2Ghz cache @ 1.065v. Not sure what you need it for, given timings aren't going to be identical.

Hope it helps.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> @vmanuelgm
> 
> Couple for you here, one with 3Ghz cache @ 0.990v, the other at 3.2Ghz cache @ 1.065v. Not sure what you need it for, given timings aren't going to be identical.
> 
> Hope it helps.


Thanks mate.

I told u, curiosity about the APEX bandwidth. I am 1GB more convinced to jump to Asus, xDDD


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Thanks mate.
> 
> I told u, curiosity about the APEX bandwidth. I am 1GB more convinced to jump to Asus, xDDD


Not wanting the Extreme then?


----------



## Neo_Morpheus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> Judging by that and how I'm on a sabertooth x99, do you think it should be capable of hitting 3400 or 3600, even tighter timings? Is the voltage safe at 1.5+?


Give it go, and you should be fine with a lower voltage than 1.5v, my board Asus X99-A II only has support up to 3333Mhz and my cheap sticks of 3000Mhz Corsair still got 3400Mhz with less than 1.4v

I think I broke the userbenchmark comparison test


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- i7 7800X @ 4.5 / 2.9 --- 4000Mhz -C16-16-16 38- 1T --- 1.39v --- SA 1.03v ---- VCCIO -- 1.03v --- Stressapptest -- 1 Hr

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA (2 sets )


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Not wanting the Extreme then?


The Extreme is a beauty, but APEX is supposed to behave better in the memory field, isn't it???


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> The Extreme is a beauty, but APEX is supposed to behave better in the memory field, isn't it???


The difference will be negligible. Although, if you're worried about AIDA scores then yes, the Apex is for you


----------



## becks

Okay, finally nailed it after much tweak...could get either a successful boot or a test pass but was complicated to make both work together








Won't post any pics at the moment as there is no improvement to my already submitted result...
And both the new CPU and the existing RAM only needs slightly more V overall..

Settled at 5.0 CPU / 4.8 Cache (Uncore) @3733 16-16-28-1t RAM 1.395v 1.137 IO 1.163 SA 1.385 CPU + LLC 5

Now I have to tame a new beast....the GPU








Cheers everyone for all the good advises..


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Okay, finally nailed it after much tweak...could get either a successful boot or a test pass but was complicated to make both work together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Won't post any pics at the moment as there is no improvement to my already submitted result...
> And both the new CPU and the existing RAM only needs slightly more V overall..
> 
> Settled at 5.0 CPU / 4.8 Cache (Uncore) @3733 16-16-28-1t RAM 1.395v 1.137 IO 1.163 SA 1.385 CPU + LLC 5
> 
> Now I have to tame a new beast....the GPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers everyone for all the good advises..


Glad you got there in the end. 5Ghz cache was very optimistic


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Glad you got there in the end. 5Ghz cache was very optimistic


I can set it up in Bios and than have the ram tweaked to pass tests in OS...
But whatever I do the cache will still show only as maximum 48 in OS...so made me wonder...is it worth it ? as far as I know it might not even be more than 48 even when i set it to 49, 50 or 51 in Bios...some strange limitations on this board for sure...

Also as far as I could dig in the past days there is no Ram boot voltage in the Bios either... and up until post PC is trying to boot at 1.2 V ram @ 2333 and after post it applies the BIOS OC so that's why I have boot failures...
Had to play with PLL Boot V to get around it...


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> The difference will be negligible. Although, if you're worried about AIDA scores then yes, the Apex is for you


[email protected] is more important for me... APEX could help (or not). I like the extras in the Extreme too, so I can try both or none and stay with Gigabyte, xDDD


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> [email protected] is more important for me... APEX could help (or not). I like the extras in the Extreme too, so I can try both or none and stay with Gigabyte, xDDD


I think you just need good sticks for straight sixteens. Assuming the IMC is capable


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Have you lowered the uncore as suggested?
> It's very easy to hit a nerve with you, that's why you're so much fun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I did try to add this to the OP, but once again I'm no longer able to amend it.*


yeah - gotta email Enterprise.
Also - I'm sure you have noticed that Gsat/Bash runs at the AVX offset? (lol - I just noticed







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Hey buddy! glad to have you here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I have not...tough they removed it in version 5.0 and up...
> Will try later, and if not gsat under OS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> although, just a personal opinion I like memtest pro more, especially now that I paid for it


so you start the HCi launcher.. enter like, 13312 in the ram field (for 16GB say) and then the number of threads... and you get that error? You sure you put the launcher in the same folder with Memtest *Pro*


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Also - I'm sure you have noticed that Gsat/Bash runs at the AVX offset? (lol - I just noticed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> so you start the HCi launcher.. enter like, 13312 in the ram field (for 16GB say) and then the number of threads... and you get that error? You sure you put the launcher in the same folder with Memtest *Pro*


This is what I mean:



If I lower it to the suggested 2833 (maximum) / instance * 8 = way less than 90-95% of 32 Gb utilised required for a real feel of stability....

Playing with lower clocks at the moment... more or less 5.1 or 5.0 on the CPU ....3600 with tight timings...
Just not worth the hassle of going on the edge...

Gsat/Bash with "-W" at the end of the command ?


----------



## Praz

Hello

Windows rotates data to different memory locations while in use. To test the majority of the memory extend the testing coverage of HCI. If this is not desirable use the bootable version of HCI, use a CPU with the necessary amount of cores for the memory amount being tested or test with GSAT.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> 
> Hello
> 
> Nothing I can add. The CPU I have is not capable of anything over 3733MHz on the memory.


Hello

Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG APEX X299 --- 3800 15-16-16-38-1T --- 1.40V --- SA 0.895V --- IO 1.010V --- HCI 900% --- GSAT 2 Hours -- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)





There is no magic that will fix a crap IMC but the APEX BIOS does provide the tools to get the most out of it. Regardless of timings or voltages 3733MHz is the limit without making use of some of the more obscure settings in the BIOS.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Also - I'm sure you have noticed that Gsat/Bash runs at the AVX offset? (lol - I just noticed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Yes, I think it's not been noticeable up until recently due to a bug that was preventing BASH from detecting AVX


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG APEX X299 --- 3800 15-16-16-38-1T --- 1.40V --- SA 0.895V --- IO 1.010V --- HCI 900% --- GSAT 2 Hours -- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no magic that will fix a crap IMC but the APEX BIOS does provide the tools to get the most out of it. Regardless of timings or voltages 3733MHz is the limit without making use of some of the more obscure settings in the BIOS.


Nice, hopefully, your 16-18 core (whichever) will have a better IMC


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> This is what I mean:
> 
> 
> 
> If I lower it to the suggested 2833 (maximum) / instance * 8 = way less than 90-95% of 32 Gb utilised required for a real feel of stability....
> 
> Playing with lower clocks at the moment... more or less 5.1 or 5.0 on the CPU ....3600 with tight timings...
> Just not worth the hassle of going on the edge...
> 
> Gsat/Bash with "-W" at the end of the command ?


yeah, 32gb with 8 threads is not the way to go. use GSAT as Praz advises.


----------



## Jpmboy

4C/8T SKL-X 24/7 settings:

jpmboy --- 7740X @ 5.4/0/4.8 (core/avx offset/cache)@ 1.33V --- 16GB 4000 c16-17-17-40-1T --- 1.4 VDIMM, 1.225V vsa, 1.210V vccio, PLL bandwidth = 0 (auto will run 2.8V, yes two point eight volts). 3600c15 2x8GB Gskill kit.

2 hours GSAT (Bash) using this command: _stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400_


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 4C/8T SKL-X 24/7 settings:
> 
> jpmboy --- 7740X @ 5.4/0/4.8 (core/avx offset/cache)@ 1.33V --- 16GB 4000 c16-17-17-40-1T --- 1.4 VDIMM, 1.225V vsa, 1.210V vccio, PLL bandwidth = 0 (auto will run 2.8V, yes two point eight volts). 3600c15 2x8GB Gskill kit.
> 
> 2 hours GSAT (Bash) using this command: _stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400_


Nice CPU, and nice result there...

-W is more stressful to the CPU than RAM... try and use -C (threads..) if you still want it to use some CPU stressing and / or --cc_test (for some cache coherency testing).

I thinks that's why you are seeing it using avx freq on CPU
Or I don't always see it cause I need to update my bash...one of the 2.

These are the 2 commands I use:

stressapptest -s 7200 -M 27512 -m 8 -W (Uses AVX)
stressapptest -s 7200 -M 27512 -m 8 -C 8 --cc_test (does not use AVX)


----------



## Silent Scone

I have added the cache coherency argument on X99 before, but the system needed to be quite unstable to produce any red flags. Haven't tried with X299 yet.


----------



## Jpmboy

Is the default set to use all threads? And the purpose of he -C argument would be to restrict use to less than all available?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Is the default set to use all threads? And the purpose of he -C argument would be to restrict use to less than all available?


Yes, from what I can tell from my testing


----------



## chibi

I just ordered an mitx z270 system as a portable lan rig. The main components will be a z270i strix, 7700k cpu and 3600C16 gskill tridentz. Would it be reasonable to expect a memory oc of 4000 C16-16-16-36 1t?

The builder's itch is too strongk, it may be a week or so before the components arrive and I can do some preliminary testing before the water loop is configured.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Yes, from what I can tell from my testing


thanks!


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> I just ordered an mitx z270 system as a portable lan rig. The main components will be a z270i strix, 7700k cpu and 3600C16 gskill tridentz. Would it be reasonable to expect a memory oc of 4000 C16-16-16-36 1t?
> 
> The builder's itch is too strongk, it may be a week or so before the components arrive and I can do some preliminary testing before the water loop is configured.


8 Gb ? 2x4 possible...
16 Gb ? 2x8 maybe...
32 Gb ? 2x16 ?? you must be darn lucky....


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> 8 Gb ? 2x4 possible...
> *16 Gb ? 2x8 maybe...*
> 32 Gb ? 2x16 ?? you must be darn lucky....


Hope I get a strong IMC and some good b-die modules


----------



## pillowsack

I come to you guys for some serious help with this x99 and 6800k.

I had hyperX fury 3000 that took me a good month to get set up. I did a bad job at it, but anyways:

I now have 4x8GB 3200 16-18-18-38-2T 1.35v b-die corsair vengeance red LED. I know that x99/6800K I should aim for lower latency. Right now my AIDA64 memory/cache is really lacking compared to my old FuryX kit and im kinda sad. I see guys with 42ns and im at a crazy 67









It boots at 4.4ghz and 3.6 uncore with the ram(1.42-1.43v) at:
3000 13-14-14-38-2T
3000 14-15-15-34-2T
3000 15-15-15-38-2T
3200 16-18-18-2T(stock)

The stability is exactly the same at 3000 14 and 3000 15. I can boot into windows, use windows for x ammount of hours. I find that CSGO will crash towards the end of a comp. match though(regardless of setting).

I've tried setting CPU IO to 1.2v and SA at 1.25v, should I try this higher?

I feel like I'm not adjusting proper voltages, maybe I should try higher voltage, or I'm terrible at settings latencies. I'm aiming for a 24/7 overclock, but I feel incredibly stupid when it comes to this ram stuff. I've seen posts about how some latencies aren't recommended for 24/7 usage. I miss the days of DDR2









Most of the guides I find are for either Haswell-E or they are Asus Maximus boards (although this sabertooth is basically a maximum with a different theme?).

If you guys have some recommendations I would be really happy. I am looking to set my CPU and uncore to stock and just try to get the best ram latencies I can get(stable) and then go from there for my uncore overclock(ram will effect this right?).

I'm probably asking for a lot and wrote a pretty bad post but I am desperate. No matter what I do it seems to not be happy.... I feel like I'm missing some stupid voltage that will allow me some sweet CL14 latencies.... I see buttholes with x99 doing 3200 @ CL12 but I dont expect that from my bin(what should I expect?).


----------



## Jpmboy

best to first find a stable base with the new ram kit using the stability tests described in the OP. Then post back once you get 1h GSAT or 500% HCi under your belt. from there, tuning is possible, otherwise it's a crapshoot.


----------



## pillowsack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> best to first find a stable base with the new ram kit using the stability tests described in the OP. Then post back once you get 1h GSAT or 500% HCi under your belt. from there, tuning is possible, otherwise it's a crapshoot.


I just got memtest pro after a minor mistake buying it, at around 20% as I type this. It's 3000 15-15-15-38-2T. I lowered the DDR4 voltage and brought SA to the same level that IO is at. I also raised my VINPUT to 1.94 and that might have helped?

Maybe it's fine at this now, who knows. 4.4ghz core speed and 3.2ghz uncore atm.











(used my phone and the tuf power app for this, think the CPU and cache is reported wrong here.







)



EDIT:
So it was unstable. But since it took 70% to get an error, I gave the DDR4 1.42v. I don't know what's ok for daily 24/7 DDR4 overclock. Is it 1.45v? I see things all over.
I'm gonna run this test for a while now and see what it gets me.

Also brought my core and uncore to 4.2 3.1


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> I come to you guys for some serious help with this x99 and 6800k.
> 
> I had hyperX fury 3000 that took me a good month to get set up. I did a bad job at it, but anyways:
> 
> I now have 4x8GB 3200 16-18-18-38-2T 1.35v b-die corsair vengeance red LED. I know that x99/6800K I should aim for lower latency. Right now my AIDA64 memory/cache is really lacking compared to my old FuryX kit and im kinda sad. I see guys with 42ns and im at a crazy 67
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It boots at 4.4ghz and 3.6 uncore with the ram(1.42-1.43v) at:
> 3000 13-14-14-38-2T
> 3000 14-15-15-34-2T
> 3000 15-15-15-38-2T
> 3200 16-18-18-2T(stock)
> 
> The stability is exactly the same at 3000 14 and 3000 15. I can boot into windows, use windows for x ammount of hours. I find that CSGO will crash towards the end of a comp. match though(regardless of setting).
> 
> I've tried setting CPU IO to 1.2v and SA at 1.25v, should I try this higher?
> 
> I feel like I'm not adjusting proper voltages, maybe I should try higher voltage, or I'm terrible at settings latencies. I'm aiming for a 24/7 overclock, but I feel incredibly stupid when it comes to this ram stuff. I've seen posts about how some latencies aren't recommended for 24/7 usage. I miss the days of DDR2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the guides I find are for either Haswell-E or they are Asus Maximus boards (although this sabertooth is basically a maximum with a different theme?).
> 
> If you guys have some recommendations I would be really happy. I am looking to set my CPU and uncore to stock and just try to get the best ram latencies I can get(stable) and then go from there for my uncore overclock(ram will effect this right?)
> 
> I'm probably asking for a lot and wrote a pretty bad post but I am desperate. No matter what I do it seems to not be happy.... I feel like I'm missing some stupid voltage that will allow me some sweet CL14 latencies.... I see buttholes with x99 doing 3200 @ CL12 but I dont expect that from my bin(what should I expect?).


i had this kit if its the e-die kit (thaiphoon burner to check)
on one board got 3600 and another 3466 at 1.50v timings as low as 14-17-17-28-1T with tight subs
io-1.20 sa 1.225


----------



## pillowsack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> i had this kit if its the e-die kit (thaiphoon burner to check)
> on one board got 3600 and another 3466 at 1.50v timings as low as 14-17-17-28-1T with tight subs
> io-1.20 sa 1.225


Does IO and SA apply for me too(x99 and 6800K)? Was this 24/7?


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> Does IO and SA apply for me too(x99 and 6800K)? Was this 24/7?


not sure with your hardware. and yes it was


----------



## pillowsack

Hoping this works for memtesting for you Jpmboy







My buddy wants to play csgo really bad so hopefully you'll understand, it's 4:30am.



Apparently the ram is happier with 1.42v.


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- i7 7800X @ 4.7 / 2.7 --- 4200Mhz -C17-18-18 -36 1T --- 1.42v --- SA -- 0.945v ---- VCCIO -- 0.97v --- HCI memtest 500%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA (2 sets )


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> Hoping this works for memtesting for you Jpmboy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My buddy wants to play csgo really bad so hopefully you'll understand, it's 4:30am.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently the ram is happier with 1.42v.


certainly better than no HCI memtest at all!
And if that is an E-die kit,.. you done good.


----------



## pillowsack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> certainly better than no HCI memtest at all!
> And if that is an E-die kit,.. you done good.


now for the nightly stress testing to see if I can get it any lower, this seems to hold up nicely


----------



## SpeedyIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> certainly better than no HCI memtest at all!
> And if that is an E-die kit,.. you done good.


Not to interrupt but according to

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/

The G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GT are B-Die, unless the ZA on the end changes that. I am wondering if this is correct as I am wondering if I can trust that list.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyIV*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to interrupt but according to
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/
> 
> The G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GT are B-Die, unless the ZA on the end changes that. I am wondering if this is correct as I am wondering if I can trust that list.


THEY are but the reference is to corsair LED vengence 3200


----------



## SpeedyIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> THEY are but the reference is to corsair LED vengence 3200


Oh. Oops. Misread it (on phone). Well at least the list was correct. Thanks and sorry.


----------



## pillowsack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> certainly better than no HCI memtest at all!
> And if that is an E-die kit,.. you done good.


Can I ask if you've seen this ram scale well and whats the max 24/7 voltage would you recommend?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pillowsack*
> 
> Can I ask if you've seen this ram scale well and whats the max 24/7 voltage would you recommend?


scaling depends on on the cpu too.. so only way to know is to try. Stay under 1.45V for 24/7. That's from the cpu side. the sticks them selves can handle much higher.


----------



## JMTH

Hey Scone, I think you got a couple of things mixed up on my entry in BWE DDR4 64GB.

I think you mixed up some of my info with Jpmboy. I think if you just swap the names it will be correct.

My first post was here
JMTH---6850K @4.3/3.5---3231Mhz-C16-16-16-36-2T----1.2625v---SA 0.8v---HCI 600% XMP Settings for G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW on ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.

Second was here
JMTH---6850K @4.3/3.5---3312Mhz-C14-15-14-32-1T----1.26562v---SA 0.9625v---VCCIO CPU 1.250v---HCI 675% G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW on ASUS X99-Deluxe ii

And final one was here
JMTH---6850K @4.3/3.5---3312Mhz-C14-15-14-32-1T----VCore 1.26562v---VDRAM 1.400v---SA 0.9625v---VCCIO CPU 1.050v---HCI 947.5% G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW on ASUS X99-Deluxe ii

Can you just delete the one in there and add my last post when you have a chance please? Or maybe keep the first one since its the XMP settings for comparison?
Thank you in advance!


----------



## JMTH

Oh and I forgot to ask, for Tertiary timings. Is there a good guide anywhere? What are we trying to adjust it to? High or Low numbers hehe. Sorry I have not been able to find any good information on it. Google has failed me









I just finished this test, but no idea if I should lower the Tertiary's more or raise them... hehe











Here was my starting point for Tertiary timings.


----------



## pillowsack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Oh and I forgot to ask, for Tertiary timings. Is there a good guide anywhere? What are we trying to adjust it to? High or Low numbers hehe. Sorry I have not been able to find any good information on it. Google has failed me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just finished this test, but no idea if I should lower the Tertiary's more or raise them... hehe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here was my starting point for Tertiary timings.


I'm interested in this too Jpmboy


----------



## r9miner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> scaling depends on on the cpu too.. so only way to know is to try. Stay under 1.45V for 24/7. That's from the cpu side. the sticks them selves can handle much higher.


So G.Skill is releasing 4600mhz B-Die rated 19-23-23-43 at 1.5V now i'm wondering if that means its ok to run my lower binned B-Die at 1.5V 24/7. I'm on a 6700k delidded with EK Supremacy Evo big rads etc, what do you think?

Source: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g-skill-launches-new-ddr4-4600mhz-extreme-performancetrident-z-memory-kit.html


----------



## anonjoe

Where do they get that Dang Wang memtest 3.0 ? From guru3d picture


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r9miner*
> 
> So G.Skill is releasing 4600mhz B-Die rated 19-23-23-43 at 1.5V now i'm wondering if that means its ok to run my lower binned B-Die at 1.5V 24/7. I'm on a 6700k delidded with EK Supremacy Evo big rads etc, what do you think?
> 
> Source: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g-skill-launches-new-ddr4-4600mhz-extreme-performancetrident-z-memory-kit.html


yeah th enew ram kits are for dual channel kaby-X on x299. the vdimm AOR (acceptable operating range) is really set on the cpu side of the thing. the 6700K may or may not appreciate 1.5V vdimm 24/7.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Oh and I forgot to ask, for Tertiary timings. Is there a good guide anywhere? What are we trying to adjust it to? High or Low numbers hehe. Sorry I have not been able to find any good information on it. Google has failed me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just finished this test, but no idea if I should lower the Tertiary's more or raise them... hehe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here was my starting point for Tertiary timings.


depending on what board you are using, use the timings from a built-in preset. Here's the ones I have running on this x99/6950X ... well over a year at this point.
8x8GB gskill 3200c14 kit.


CR=1 will boot but not stable to GSAT or HCi memtest for any acceptable length of time. And besides, with 8 sticks, 1T or 2T makes very little difference.

use the asrock tool on x99:

TimingConfiguratorv3.0.6.zip 2625k .zip file


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r9miner*
> 
> So G.Skill is releasing 4600mhz B-Die rated 19-23-23-43 at 1.5V now i'm wondering if that means its ok to run my lower binned B-Die at 1.5V 24/7. I'm on a 6700k delidded with EK Supremacy Evo big rads etc, what do you think?
> 
> Source: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g-skill-launches-new-ddr4-4600mhz-extreme-performancetrident-z-memory-kit.html


I remember I think it was kingston who also had some 1.5V DDR4 near Haswell-E launch. I'll be on the lookout for one of these kits if they come to market.


----------



## JMTH

I am using an ASUS X99-Deluxe ii. I believe that the max freq for this board is 3333. I got it to around that but the BCLK was causing issues with my M.2 slot. It took it from Gen 3 speed to Gen 2 speed, so now I am working on optimizing at 3200 MHz and keeping the BCLK at 100. I will try the tool you suggested and see if I can bring it down closer to what you are showing.

Thanks a bunch! I will let you know how it goes!


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected] 5.4/5.4/5.0 --- 4000 c15-16-16-40-1T @ 1.45V 1.210VCCIO, 1.225 VSA (3600c15 2x8GB kit) 2 hours GSAT


----------



## ogider

Very nice results.








I hope for similar with the f4-3200c14D and upcoming Apex z370 - 8700k..


----------



## anphetamina

I have an ASUS MAXIMUS VIII RANGER motherboard, when I set the XMP profile for my G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200Mhz CL16 (16-16-16-36) [F4-3200C16D-16GVK] it will set the VCCIO voltage to 1.35, is that ok? Could this be related to my freezing issues when playing games?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anphetamina*
> 
> I have an ASUS MAXIMUS VIII RANGER motherboard, when I set the XMP profile for my G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200Mhz CL16 (16-16-16-36) [F4-3200C16D-16GVK] it will set the VCCIO voltage to 1.35, is that ok? Could this be related to my freezing issues when playing games?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


You can lower it quite a bit. try 1.25 and lower. Also, check System Agent voltage.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Very nice results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope for similar with the f4-3200c14D and upcoming Apex z370 - 8700k..


not really... that's what one does when higher frequencies don't cooperate.


----------



## anphetamina

If RAM voltages were wrong, shouldn't my system freeze even when I'm not gaming?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anphetamina*
> 
> If RAM voltages were wrong, shouldn't my system freeze even when I'm not gaming?


ram voltage?? you asked about VCCIO from XMP. What ram voltage are you using??


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- i7 7800X @ 4.8 / 3.0 --- 4000Mhz -C15-16-16 -36 1T --- 1.44v --- SA -- 0.975v ---- VCCIO -- 1.0v--- Win10 GSAT -- 2 Hrs

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA (2 sets )

Using Win10 bash gsat for the first time.
Not sure if correct or not but used same command as gsat in Linux Mint 'stressapptest -W -s 7200'

Tried 4000C15 15 15 36 1T @1.45v but errors came up pretty quick.


----------



## anphetamina

I applied the XMP profile and my motherboard set the ram voltage to 1.3538v, have you seen my videos? it's not stuttering, it's random freezing


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 --- i7 7800X @ 4.8 / 3.0 --- 4000Mhz -C15-16-16 -36 1T --- 1.44v --- SA -- 0.975v ---- VCCIO -- 1.0v--- Win10 GSAT -- 2 Hrs
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA (2 sets )
> 
> Using Win10 bash gsat for the first time.
> Not sure if correct or not but used same command as gsat in Linux Mint 'stressapptest -W -s 7200'
> 
> Tried 4000C15 15 15 36 1T @1.45v but errors came up pretty quick.


Very very nice result.

Could you please post an Aida bandwidth test?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 --- i7 7800X @ 4.8 / 3.0 --- 4000Mhz -C15-16-16 -36 1T --- 1.44v --- SA -- 0.975v ---- VCCIO -- 1.0v--- Win10 GSAT -- 2 Hrs
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA (2 sets )
> 
> Using Win10 bash gsat for the first time.
> Not sure if correct or not but used same command as gsat in Linux Mint 'stressapptest -W -s 7200'
> 
> Tried 4000C15 15 15 36 1T @1.45v but errors came up pretty quick.


Nice sticks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anphetamina*
> 
> I applied the XMP profile and my motherboard set the ram voltage to 1.3538v, have you seen my videos? it's not stuttering, it's random freezing


depending on what board and cpu you are using (fill out rigbuilder and add it to your sig), you may need ot adjust cache and or cpu voltage - XMP is an overclock for the memory controller.


----------



## anphetamina

Addded to my sig


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anphetamina*
> 
> Addded to my sig


yeah - if you must use XMP, which will change the cache multiplier . you need to increase vcore. You really should OC manually. XMP will change settings we do not have access to, and may require a CLRCMOS to completely flush out. The freeze is typical of cache undervolting.

There is a lot of info and guides in the SKL and KBL overclocking thread. http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/0_20


----------



## anphetamina

Settig the RAM to default / auto isn't enough? Is there any "safe" already made profile I can apply? I'm a newbie at oc


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anphetamina*
> 
> Settig the RAM to default / auto isn't enough? Is there any "safe" already made profile I can apply? I'm a newbie at oc


Are you saying that when using default settings (either select "Load Optimized Defaults" in bios or press the clrcmos button on the back of the board) the rig still freezes? Best way to go forward is to start with core, then cache and ram.
There may be a preset profile in the bios that you can use - you can expect some voltages to be higher than what may be needed since these profiles have to cover all sorts of CPUs. You are on Overclock.net and there are many resources to get you started. Check "Darkwizzie" s thread I linked to for some basics. Go slow and you won't kill your cpu. Or... simply restore Deafults and enjoy the stock performance.

we're going off topic with general overclocking - check the thread I linked to.









this one: http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/0_20


----------



## anphetamina

I got freezing only when gaming


----------



## lilchronic

Just a suggestion but maybe it should be required to have a timing configuration tab open. I would really like to see some of the sub timings you all are using. Especially for 4000Mhz CL15 stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Just a suggestion but maybe it should be required to have a timing configuration tab open. I would really like to see some of the sub timings you all are using. Especially for 4000Mhz CL15 stable.


well, I just found out that ATC works with kbl-x. can post later. same subs as 3866, only rtls are different for me. (dual channel)


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> well, I just found out that ATC works with kbl-x. can post later. same subs as 3866, only rtls are different for me. (dual channel)


I haven't spent enough time on optimizing sub timings for 4000Mhz. Just been running 3866Mhz with tight sub timings.


Man just realized those runs were almost a year ago.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> I haven't spent enough time on optimizing sub timings for 4000Mhz. Just been running 3866Mhz with tight sub timings.
> 
> 
> Man just realized those runs were almost a year ago.


i did post with memtweak open for 4000c15. rtls are on auto = 58/59 (some times 61) 7/7 (or 8)
4000 is not a very "flexible" divider on x299/kbl-x IMO.


----------



## MattBaneLM

how many are manually adjusting VTTDDR voltage to make sure they are'nt hitting THAT limit on auto?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> how many are manually adjusting VTTDDR voltage to make sure they are'nt hitting THAT limit on auto?


shoudl be 50% of VDIMM.. why, are you seeing something significantly different?


----------



## JMTH

So I have been fighting with getting this RAM to CL13-14-13-29-1 for a few days now. I am having a few issues though. I tried to use the BASH Stressapptest method and pretty quickly I get it to pass an hour. So I thought I was set. Then as I was still going through reading the thread I thought I found that we shouldn't be using it for stability testing. So I went back and started using HCI Pro and I cannot get it to pass more then 160% no matter what I try. Even though about 90% of the things I tried will pass Bash/Stressapptest. I have included 2 tests where it passed an hour of stressapptest and then failed HCI within a few percent...

Pass Stressapp 1 hour


Fail HCI 1.5%


Pass Stressapp 1 hour


Fail HCI 2%


I have also tried to use Puppy Linux. It will load and I can download /install everything recommended in the guide that is in this thread or in the X99 thread, I cant remember hehe.
After about 5 mins of running it just locks up and reboots. So I cant tell why its doing that, maybe my cache was unstable? No idea whats going on with it. I was going to test it with my known good HCI >1000% pass settings. I just havnt had time yet.

Is the reasons for why Bash/Stress will not work because it does not test the L1-L3 Cache?
Is it the Cache memory that is causing the instability? Or something else? If it is the Cache, any recommendations on what settings to play with to get it stable? I have tried adjusting the VCCSA, VCCIO, etc... one run I got to 160% before it had an error, another one was tested overnight and went to around 500% but it had an error around 150%, but it was just the 1 error...


----------



## Desolutional

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Is it the Cache memory that is causing the instability?


Could definitely be cache related if it doesn't crash with GSAT, GSAT focuses mainly on the RAM. Cache instability usually shows up as sudden locks with looping audio (e.g. buzzing, hissing). No BSOD, just a complete lockup. The Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Linux port is a very easy way to test cache stability IMHO. Or you could use AIDA, but I prefer real world testing.


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> Could definitely be cache related if it doesn't crash with GSAT, GSAT focuses mainly on the RAM. Cache instability usually shows up as sudden locks with looping audio (e.g. buzzing, hissing). No BSOD, just a complete lockup. The Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Linux port is a very easy way to test cache stability IMHO. Or you could use AIDA, but I prefer real world testing.


His cache OC looks very reasonable to me. 3600MHz @ 1.275v is very doable - a bit on the high voltage side if I may add. The rest of his ram voltages are also in line with expectations. I chalk this up to the C13 timming being the bigger offender.


----------



## Desolutional

Oh I didn't notice that, yeah it probably might not be their cache as that does seem to be a sensible setting, espcially with the ASUS O.C. socket mobo. Being able to run GSAT for an hour without errors happened to me before too, but that was cache related.


----------



## chibi

His total ram is 64GB's, 16GB modules. This may be pushing the limits with 3200MHz C13 as that's more probable with the 8GB sticks.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> shoudl be 50% of VDIMM.. why, are you seeing something significantly different?


was reaching diminishing returns on auto at 1.60 vdimm.
now at manually .0800 + im getting better results.

posted to help those "hittin the wall"

whats the max you would use? .9250?


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> was reaching diminishing returns on auto at 1.60 vdimm.
> now at manually .0800 + im getting better results.
> 
> posted to help those "hittin the wall"
> 
> whats the max you would use? .9250?


That makes no sense, if you had DRAM VTT on auto with 1.60 dram volts, then your DRAM VTT would be 0.8, so it would be no different to setting it manually at 0.8 volts. Therefore your results would be exactly the same either way.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> That makes no sense, if you had DRAM VTT on auto with 1.60 dram volts, then your DRAM VTT would be 0.8, so it would be no different to setting it manually at 0.8 volts. Therefore your results would be exactly the same either way.


nothing i say ever makes any sense to you...
see the + at the end of .800?

anyway i'm getting further than i did at auto and i'm not the first.
no need for you to answer my posts


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*


Do you restart between Stressapptest and HCI run ? If I do I get error cause I have tertiary and secondaries on auto and they change a little from reset to reset.

Would not assume its cache... Stressapptest can be set to use stress CPU as much if not more than HCI as well..


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> was reaching diminishing returns on auto at 1.60 vdimm.
> now at manually .0800 + im getting better results.
> 
> posted to help those "hittin the wall"
> 
> whats the max you would use? .9250?


for short duration - I've run 1.0+ volts. for 24/7 I've never needed to use anything but Auto with up to 1.5V VDIMM - again 24/7 HCi/GSAT stable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> So I have been fighting with getting this RAM to CL13-14-13-29-1 for a few days now. I am having a few issues though. I tried to use the BASH Stressapptest method and pretty quickly I get it to pass an hour. So I thought I was set. Then as I was still going through reading the thread I thought I found that we shouldn't be using it for stability testing. So I went back and started using HCI Pro and I cannot get it to pass more then 160% no matter what I try. Even though about 90% of the things I tried will pass Bash/Stressapptest. I have included 2 tests where it passed an hour of stressapptest and then failed HCI within a few percent...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Pass Stressapp 1 hour
> 
> 
> Fail HCI 1.5%
> 
> 
> Pass Stressapp 1 hour
> 
> 
> Fail HCI 2%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have also tried to use Puppy Linux. It will load and I can download /install everything recommended in the guide that is in this thread or in the X99 thread, I cant remember hehe.
> After about 5 mins of running it just locks up and reboots. So I cant tell why its doing that, maybe my cache was unstable? No idea whats going on with it. I was going to test it with my known good HCI >1000% pass settings. I just havnt had time yet.
> 
> Is the reasons for why Bash/Stress will not work because it does not test the L1-L3 Cache?
> Is it the Cache memory that is causing the instability? Or something else? If it is the Cache, any recommendations on what settings to play with to get it stable? I have tried adjusting the VCCSA, VCCIO, etc... one run I got to 160% before it had an error, another one was tested overnight and went to around 500% but it had an error around 150%, but it was just the 1 error...


as Becks hinted at, what gsat command are you using in bash?


----------



## JMTH

Stressapptest -W -s 3600.

I think I found the issue and am testing through it now. Might not be able to get to CL13 afterall boo. Will post findings in a little bit. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Menthol

Asrock has released Timing Configurator Ver. 4.0.4 for X299, you can find on there driver download page for X299 OC Formula

http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/X299%20OC%20Formula/index.asp#osW1064


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Stressapptest -W -s 3600.
> 
> I think I found the issue and am testing through it now. Might not be able to get to CL13 afterall boo. Will post findings in a little bit. Thanks everyone.


that command is not ideal.
for 64GB use:
stressapptest -W -M 59392 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200

for 1 hour, 2 hours is 7200 and 14440 (or any delay higher than the total test length)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Asrock has released Timing Configurator Ver. 4.0.4 for X299, you can find on there driver download page for X299 OC Formula
> 
> http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/X299%20OC%20Formula/index.asp#osW1064


thanks menthol!


----------



## chibi

Hi guys, going to be tinkering with a z270 setup this coming weekend. Can someone please advise the correct ATC version for z270? Thank you


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that command is not ideal.
> for 64GB use:
> stressapptest -W -M 59392 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
> 
> for 1 hour, 2 hours is 7200 and 14440 (or any delay higher than the total test length)
> thanks menthol!


Is that only when using Bash or also when using puppy Linux? Thanks again


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Do you restart between Stressapptest and HCI run ? If I do I get error cause I have tertiary and secondaries on auto and they change a little from reset to reset.
> 
> Would not assume its cache... Stressapptest can be set to use stress CPU as much if not more than HCI as well..


No, I did not restart. I just ran the tests back to back. I have the 2nd and 3rd set on auto, but I check each reboot to make sure they are the same. At least what pops up in the tool, which I can't remember what the name is lol. I'll edit it in later, running puppy linux stress test atm heh.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Is that only when using Bash or also when using puppy Linux? Thanks again


Hello

There is need to specify the amount of memory used when running in a true Linux environment.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Is that only when using Bash or also when using puppy Linux? Thanks again


bash.. as Praz said, puppy liniux or mint will allocate unused ram without the "-M ###" command.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> for short duration - I've run 1.0+ volts. for 24/7 I've never needed to use anything but Auto with up to 1.5V VDIMM - again 24/7 HCi/GSAT stable.
> as Becks hinted at, what gsat command are you using in bash?


thanks jmp, yeah same. up to 1.50-1.55v auto was fine. at 1.60v manually setting half or above (a tad) made a fairly big difference.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> thanks jmp, yeah same. up to 1.50-1.55v auto was fine. at 1.60v manually setting half or above (a tad) made a fairly big difference.


you might want to try VPPDDR voltage instead... ease it up from 2.5V (which is stock)


----------



## glnn_23

I suppose it's probably been mentioned before but I learnt something yesterday when testing gsat in Linux mint. That is the importance of which stick goes in which dimm slot.

MB used is X299 Asus Apex VI with a 7800x.

Using 2 sets of G.Skill TridentZ 4266 running 1 set in C1 D1 and the other in B1 A1 can pass 4000C15 16 16 1.44v no errors.

Changing the order to one stick of each set to C1 D1 and the other sticks to B1 A1 produced a couple of errors at the same settings.

I had earlier tested a stick at a time in C1 and they were pretty close for voltage required to run 3400C13, I think it was, and seeing how low primary timings could run spi 1M. Also the 1 stick that required a touch more volts I ended up putting in A1


----------



## JMTH

So I am getting close to stability at CL13. Here is a recap of what happened.

A few days ago I posted asking about Tertiary settings and what to look for. Jmpboy then posted what they were using. I started looking at the settngs and noticed it was at CL13, I was currently running CL14. So I thought to my self, why not try and get my timing tighter! I was able to get the new settings to pass POST with minimal tweaking and started testing. At some point I noticed my uncore was set at the default multiple. I upped it to 3.8 GHz (which was higher then my prior stable C14 at 3.6) and was able to get it to post and into windows at around 1.275 volts. I had some BSODs during Bash/Stress, Realbench, and XTU testing so I slowly increased the uncore voltage up to 1.31875 and it seemed to stabilize. Ran the Realbench stress tests for 4 hours and it looked ok (should of done 8 in hindsight).

I then went back to testing the memory settings. I could get it to pass stressapptest in Bash almost every time, but nothing I tried would get it to pass HCI or even work in Puppy Linux. I decided to start over and opened a saved profile then changed the timing back to the levels I was testing at. I forgot to change the uncore back to 3.8, for this saved profile it was set at 3.6. I also didnt notice that I had the uncore voltage set on auto. I made my next post about not being able to pass HCI with settings that would pass Bash/Stressapptest.

It wasnt until someone saw and stated that my uncore voltage seemed high, so I looked and yeah for sure it was showing 1.275. I checked the BIOS and it was on auto. I then decided to see what the auto setting was for 3.8 GHz (still using the CL14 settings at this point). So I changed the multiplier and booted into Puppy Linux. Since I had never had a successful Stressapptest run with these memory settings I typed the command in and waited for it to crash. Well to my surprise it didn't crash and it passed the hour test. Ok well humm, screenshot and boot to windows. I get into windows and look up the voltage and its set to 1.4 volts... Arg...

So it seems that the cache will stabilize somewhere between 1.31875 and 1.4 volts for 3.8GHz, but thats pretty high. I decided to turn it back a notch and see what the lowest voltage it takes at 3.6 and 3.7 GHz. They come in at 1.100 and 1.18125. Now I start messing with the secondary settings, while keeping the primary at my stable setting, to see if it will boot up with anything close using the ones that Jmpboy posted. I put them in with the small tweak I had made in my prior testing and it boots just fine. Make a few test runs and have to increase the uncore voltage to 1.184375 then bam it passes 500% HCI



Since it seems to be going better this time I decide to load up the CL13 timing and start testing. The first few boots seem to be having issues so I bump up the DRAM voltage and eventually it gets past POST at 1.38 V. I go into Puppy Linux and it passes the hour test no problem. Now its time for HCI, I boot into windows start it up and it throws an error at 86%, I bump up the cache voltage to 1.1875 and it makes it to 430%. I have bumped it up another step to 1.19063 V and it is testing now. Hopefully later tonight it will have made it past 500% and tomorrow 1000%! Knock on wood.

Other then the DRAM and Cache coltage I have not had to adjust anything else. The SA is at 0.9625 and VCCIO at 1.06875. My core voltage might seem high at 1.375 but that is because I have the cores set individually. I use a 3D cad program that is single threaded so I bumped the * core as high as I could get it without having thermal issues under normal use. I also use the ASUS thermal control that throttles the multipliers. So CPU z will most likely show 4100 MHz in most of the pictures. Unless I time the screenshot just right when the temp dips below the lower limit and it bumps it to full speed again. I guess I could run it at a lower single speed, but I want to make sure that my individualized core setup will be stable. Anyway the cores are set at 44/44/46/43/43/43.

Sorry for the rambling post, hopefully it is somewhat coherent. Most likely its not but what can I do, i am so tired hehe. I will update tomorrow.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> I suppose it's probably been mentioned before but I learnt something yesterday when testing gsat in Linux mint. That is the importance of which stick goes in which dimm slot.
> 
> MB used is X299 Asus Apex VI with a 7800x.
> 
> Using 2 sets of G.Skill TridentZ 4266 running 1 set in C1 D1 and the other in B1 A1 can pass 4000C15 16 16 1.44v no errors.
> 
> Changing the order to one stick of each set to C1 D1 and the other sticks to B1 A1 produced a couple of errors at the same settings.
> 
> I had earlier tested a stick at a time in C1 and they were pretty close for voltage required to run 3400C13, I think it was, and seeing how low primary timings could run spi 1M. Also the 1 stick that required a touch more volts I ended up putting in A1


Nothing unusual there, especially considering the frequency. Changing slot priority can end up that way


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- i7 7800X @ 4.8 / 3.2 --- 4000Mhz -C15-16-16 -34 1T --- 1.44v --- SA -- 0.955v ---- VCCIO -- 0.975 -- Stressapptest 1 hr

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA (2 sets )

Ran gsat in mint again today. Upped the cache a bit and played with timings although am a novice at it. Ran the same settings in Aida 64.


----------



## chibi

A few thoughts and questions after setting up the mitx z270 right last night.

I miss buttons! The Safe Boot, Start, Reset buttons on the RVE10 help so much during tinkering that I took it for granted. I feel like a caveman going back to a screw driver and tapping pins to clear cmos and start/shutdown on this z270 strix.









RTL CHA / CHB - my RTL's seem out of whack when I was able to boot into Windows. What voltage rail do I need to tweak further to get them aligned? Due to the cumbersome post fail recovery procedure, I just upped all three DRAM, VCCIO and SA voltages at once to a slightly higher than average number to get my RTL's to 55/55. Looking to fine tune rather than brute force once I know where to look.

So far, 4000MHz C16 doesn't look too promising on this 7700K + 3600C16 kit


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> A few thoughts and questions after setting up the mitx z270 right last night.
> 
> I miss buttons! The Safe Boot, Start, Reset buttons on the RVE10 help so much during tinkering that I took it for granted. I feel like a caveman going back to a screw driver and tapping pins to clear cmos and start/shutdown on this z270 strix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hence the cheaper price


----------



## Jpmboy

guess I never did sub this:
Been running like this for a long time now. Well before this gsat was run in January.

jpmboy -- [email protected] -- 3400 c13-14-13-29-2t (3200c14 8x8GB kit) @ 1,45V. SA 1.00V, VCCIO 1.03V. 1 hour Gsat (BASH)


----------



## Jpmboy

tune up a bit - lower voltages and just runs "cleaner" than higher frequencies on this IMC:

jpmboy --- [email protected]/5.3/4.8 w/ 1.36V. ---- 3866 c16-16-16-38-1T 1.4V vdimm, 1.21V Sa, 1.195V VCCIO (3600c15 2x8GB kit... no better with a 4400c19 kit







)


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> tune up a bit - lower voltages and just runs "cleaner" than higher frequencies on this IMC:
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected]/5.3/4.8 w/ 1.36V. ---- 3866 c16-16-16-38-1T 1.4V vdimm, 1.21V Sa, 1.195V VCCIO (3600c15 2x8GB kit... *no better with a 4400c19 kit*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Dam thought those would be pretty good.

They also announced some 4600Mhz CL19 kit
https://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-new-ddr4-4600mhz-extreme-performance-trident-z-memory-kit


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Dam thought those would be pretty good.
> 
> They also announced some 4600Mhz CL19 kit
> https://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-new-ddr4-4600mhz-extreme-performance-trident-z-memory-kit


they may be better... but, i think the IMC is putting a cap on fully stable frequencies with this specific CPU. (boots and runs 4133, 4200(bclk 200) and 4400 - even 4400xmp, but vsa needed to approach stability is very high. I mean, bench-4000c12 work easy with either kit.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> they may be better... but, i think the IMC is putting a cap on fully stable frequencies with this specific CPU. (boots and runs 4133, 4200(bclk 200) and 4400 - even 4400xmp, but vsa needed to approach stability is very high. I mean, bench-4000c12 work easy with either kit.


Do they run 4000c12 with lower voltage than the 3600 kit?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Do they run 4000c12 with lower voltage than the 3600 kit?


not really. 1.85-1.9 for both, tho I have not tried to go lower.


----------



## MattBaneLM

just re-tested,
when at 1.60 vdimm 4233Mhz on auto vttddr i am 1.500 seconds slower 32m pi than when i set it at 0.8750


----------



## MattBaneLM

what timings should i aim for next guys? this is 24/7 stable so im still trying for that and then will also need to find a benching set.
1.60 vdimm
io - 1.20
sa - 1.225
for benching should i get cl 12 stable at say 3600 with tight subs and then just increase freq with voltage adjustments for work timings back from max freq?


----------



## ogider

In general rule..
Which configuration has a chance for a higher clock
4x8GB or 2x16GB


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> In general rule..
> Which configuration has a chance for a higher clock
> 4x8GB or 2x16GB


I'd say 4x8GB single side B-dye
I have 2x16... can't go over 3733 24/7....3866 bench (3200c15 Kit)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> what timings should i aim for next guys? this is 24/7 stable so im still trying for that and then will also need to find a benching set.
> 1.60 vdimm
> io - 1.20
> sa - 1.225
> for benching should i get cl 12 stable at say 3600 with tight subs and then just increase freq with voltage adjustments for work timings back from max freq?


That depends, are you testing every change purely with AIDA?


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That depends, are you testing every change purely with AIDA?


Cinebench r15
Xtu
32m Pi
Then Aida


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Cinebench r15
> Xtu
> 32m Pi
> Then Aida


Those aren't memory oriented. The guidelines in the thread are there to test these timing changes


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Those aren't memory oriented. The guidelines in the thread are there to test these timing changes


I can confirm those are not for testing memory thoroughly as they are used in bench runs where we are no where near memory stability.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Was quick binning type runs I'll admit
Trying find that level were I can run the other tests


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> Was quick binning type runs I'll admit
> Trying find that level were I can run the other tests


Fastest way to see where you are memory wise: Open chrome with 20 tabs...shut down or restart... when you back in OS reopen chrome...if you don't have a "Restore" message pop and everything loads fine.. you can start Memtest or Gsat


----------



## ogider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I'd say 4x8GB single side B-dye
> I have 2x16... can't go over 3733 24/7....3866 bench (3200c15 Kit)


Thanks.
I have 2x8 f4-3200C14D-16GTZ
But I cant go over 3866 on my z270F Asus.
Low clocks working quite well,like 3600 CL14 1T or 3200 CL 13 1t with tight settings.

After buying and testing my 2x8GB on z370(apex or hero)
(I hope for 4000-4133MHz CL 16)

I will try to buy another set 2x8 f4-3200C14D-16GTZ then.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Thanks.
> I have 2x8 f4-3200C14D-16GTZ
> But I cant go over 3866 on my z270F Asus.
> Low clocks working quite well,like 3600 CL14 1T or 3200 CL 13 1t with tight settings.
> 
> After buying and testing my 2x8GB on z370(apex or hero)
> (I hope for 4000-4133MHz CL 16)
> 
> I will try to buy another set 2x8 f4-3200C14D-16GTZ then.


Combining 2 identical sets is not advised if you want the max out of them..
You have better chances with a 4x8Gb 3200C14 kit than with 2x 2x8Gb 3200C14 kits..


----------



## ogider

Good point


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> what timings should i aim for next guys? this is 24/7 stable so im still trying for that and then will also need to find a benching set.
> 1.60 vdimm
> io - 1.20
> sa - 1.225
> *for benching* should i get cl 12 stable at say 3600 with tight subs and then just increase freq with voltage adjustments for work timings back from max freq?


considering this is _a memory stability thread_ - off topic, but just load the fedayama's 3866c12 preset from bios and work your way up to 4000c12 from there. remember, you MUST limit windows to 4096KB (ms config) otherwise windows can't handle it (unless you have 32 bit windows installed). vsa will be north of 1.35V, vccio 1.25-1.3V.
EOM.


----------



## MattBaneLM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> considering this is _a memory stability thread_ - off topic, but just load the fedayama's 3866c12 preset from bios and work your way up to 4000c12 from there. remember, you MUST limit windows to 4096KB (ms config) otherwise windows can't handle it (unless you have 32 bit windows installed). vsa will be north of 1.35V, vccio 1.25-1.3V.
> EOM.


thanks heaps mate. you mean 4096KB max boot mem in ms config? didnt know about this.... pls explain?

I've been working with Raja's 24/7 4133 set and tightening so far....

and i apologise if I'm skewing the thread. i am newer to high freq b-die and want to find a best stable and a bench set. which is the best thread on ocn for benching mem?


----------



## chibi

Hi guys, testing 3600Mhz C15 and established a baseline so far - 2 HR bash gsat passed. (stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400)
May I please get some help on where to next tighten timings? Thank you
*Test done in Unit 02 sig rig

VRam - 1.3728 (bios)
VCCIO - 1.125 (bios)
VCCSA - 1.150 (bios)


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Hi guys, testing 3600Mhz C15 and established a baseline so far - 2 HR bash gsat passed. (stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400)
> May I please get some help on where to next tighten timings? Thank you
> *Test done in Unit 02 sig rig
> 
> VRam - 1.3728 (bios)
> VCCIO - 1.125 (bios)
> VCCSA - 1.150 (bios)




You may







This has been 100% stable for many months now. My motherboard won't do above 3600 or CR1 no matter what.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattBaneLM*
> 
> *thanks heaps mate. you mean 4096KB max boot mem in ms config? didnt know about this.... pls explain?*
> 
> I've been working with Raja's 24/7 4133 set and tightening so far....
> 
> and i apologise if I'm skewing the thread. i am newer to high freq b-die and want to find a best stable and a bench set. which is the best thread on ocn for benching mem?


windows x64 will choke on 4000 12-12-12-28-1T, you need to "emulate" a 32bit OS (so 4096 max ram for Windows).


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @ 4.383 (by core 44/44/46/43/43/43) / 3.7 Cache --- 3200 Mhz C13-14-13-29-1T --- VCore 1.375v --- Cache 1.19063v --- DRAM 1.380v --- SA 0.9625v --- VCCIO CPU 1.06875v --- HCI 1350% --- 3 hour Gsat (BASH) Stressapptest -W -M 59392 -s 10800 --pause_delay 14440 --- G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW --- ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.



Finally able to get this one stable. Took an inordinate amount of time. It looks like one of these settings was causing some strange dips in the CPU usage (CPU Speed Spectrum [was disabled changed to Auto], CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe to Extreme], CPU Integrated VR Efficiency Management [Auto to High]). Only when using HCI through. It wasn't until I actually sat through an entire test that I heard something going on. Usually I set it then go do something else and check on it from time to time. The fans would be humming along then every once and a while they would get very quite like they were not getting any power. I pulled up AIDA64 and turned on the graphing, restarted the HCI test and saw this.



I tried with Gsat/BASH and saw this.



No dips in the CPU, but one spike and some dips in the current. EDIT: It would pass Gsat with 90% of the settings I tried.

Once I changed the 3 settings above HCI looked like this.



So an occasional CPU usage dip but no big current dips. I did see some new smaller spikes on the 3.3 and 5 volt line. It was finally able to pass > 1000% HCI through.
Has anyone seen or have this issue before? Or know if there is another setting in the BIOS I should look at?

Thanks!


----------



## becks

On my Maximum VIII Impact you think its better to start with a Bios XMP profile for 3733 / 3866 and than just adjust Dram V / SA / IO volts or go from scratch if I want tight timings ?
Assuming I don't really know what I'm doing with secondary, tertiary and so on....

Best I can go so far with "safe" 24/7 V is 3733 @ 16-16-28 1T


----------



## EDK-TheONE

This kit is samsung B-die?
G.SKILL TridentZ DDR4 16(2x8)GB 4000MHz CL19-21-21-41

and it is as well as 3200CL14?


----------



## JMTH

I have a different board but what I did was tried the Xmp, for me it booted and tested stable. I then just wrote all the values down and turned the xmp off set everything to manual and put the setting back in by hand (only up to the primary timings, 2nd, 3rd, etc set to auto). Once I got that to work I started turning the voltages as low as they could go while still stable (DRAM, VCCSA, VCCIO Cpu). That's when the fun began, moving the primary timings tighter and seeing if it would boot. Of course that's where I ran into my testing issues, but I think I worked that out.
Once you have the primary timings where you want them and it boots and tests stable you get to start messing with the secondary ones. Rinse repeatedly and eventually you find some that work. That's the point I am at now. I think this is where you can start messing with the tertiary timings, I might do that this week lol, glutton for punishment.


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> I have a different board but what I did was tried the Xmp, for me it booted and tested stable. I then just wrote all the values down and turned the xmp off set everything to manual and put the setting back in by hand (only up to the primary timings, 2nd, 3rd, etc set to auto). Once I got that to work I started turning the voltages as low as they could go while still stable (DRAM, VCCSA, VCCIO Cpu). That's when the fun began, moving the primary timings tighter and seeing if it would boot. Of course that's where I ran into my testing issues, but I think I worked that out.
> Once you have the primary timings where you want them and it boots and tests stable you get to start messing with the secondary ones. Rinse repeatedly and eventually you find some that work. That's the point I am at now. I think this is where you can start messing with the tertiary timings, I might do that this week lol, glutton for punishment.


Memory OC is a long and patient game, have fun!


----------



## becks

Now I need this tool....


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I think I have collection syndrome when it comes to little software like this..









Old Version 2.5 is here if anyone needs it


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Now I need this tool....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I have collection syndrome when it comes to little software like this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Version 2.5 is here if anyone needs it


just use this and quit pirating the guys software...

MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


you need to buy the pro version for $5.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> just use this and quit pirating the guys software...
> 
> MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file
> 
> 
> you need to buy the pro version for $5.


I have the pro version, paid for it a while back...
Have the Launcher as well (Thanks to you...)
I need Dang Wang version as well


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I have the pro version, paid for it a while back...
> Have the Launcher as well (Thanks to you...)
> I need Dang Wang version as well


ah.. cool. the DW version was distributed with a copy of Pro at some point.


----------



## Desolutional

About including the pro version, which seems rather pointless as the pro version does all the logging for you anyhow.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desolutional*
> 
> About including the pro version, which seems rather pointless as the pro version does all the logging for you anyhow.


it was pirated rolling it into DW's distribution.


----------



## CptSpig

@JpmBoy What memory kit are you going to run with the Apex / 7980XE?


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> @Jpmboy What memory kit are you going to run with the Apex / 7980XE?


I bet 3600c15


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @ 4.383 (by core 44/44/46/43/43/43) / 3.7 Cache --- 3200 Mhz C13-14-13-29-1T --- VCore 1.378v --- Cache 1.20v --- DRAM 1.400v --- SA 0.9625v --- VCCIO CPU 1.06875v --- 2 hour Gsat (BASH) Stressapptest -W -M 59392 -s 7200 --pause_delay 10800 --- G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW --- ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.



Finally messed around with the tertiary timings. Had to turn up DRAM, CPU Core, and Cache voltage up a smidgen to get it to pass, but finally managed it hehe.

I can possibly get the Uncore to 3800MHz, but that will push the Cache voltage over 1.3v. So I just left it at 3700MHz.

Finally snagged a Der8auer delid tool v2.0, so will be pulling the lid soon and adding the liquid metal!


----------



## Silent Scone

Some nice entries







Sorry for the lack of updates been a bit hectic of late. Will update the tables tonight


----------



## becks

Very nice results !









Being able to control Cache V separately is definitely a game changer...


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> I bet 3600c15


He is running 3866 now you think he will drop down to 3600?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> He is running 3866 now you think he will drop down to 3600?


I've been running 3600c15 sticks on z270 and x299.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I've been running 3600c15 sticks on z270 and x299.


So you overclocked that kit to 3866? Are you going to stick with this or change kits when you go quad channel?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> So you overclocked that kit to 3866? Are you going to stick with this or change kits when you go quad channel?


yes 3866, 4000, 4133.. but higher has not been stable. I'm gonna try them on quad x299 eventually


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yes 3866, 4000, 4133.. but higher has not been stable. I'm gonna try them on quad x299 eventually


I am going to order the Apex and memory next week. I want to get the right kit. Got any suggestions?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> I am going to order the Apex and memory next week. I want to get the right kit. Got any suggestions?


oh man.. there's so many choices. What CPU? Basically pick a good kit off the QVL, or just about any 3200c14, 3600c16 or higher quad channel gskill kit will do just fine.


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> I am going to order the Apex and memory next week. I want to get the right kit. Got any suggestions?


I'm using 3600 c15 x2 kits and 4266 x2 kits Works well on my x299 Apex and x299 taichi









4000mhz on taichi and 4200mhz on Apex.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> I'm using 3600 c15 x2 kits and 4266 x2 kits Works well on my x299 Apex and x299 taichi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4000mhz on taichi and 4200mhz on Apex.


Nice! Thanks for the information it's very helpful.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> oh man.. there's so many choices. What CPU? Basically pick a good kit off the QVL, or just about any 3200c14, 3600c16 or higher quad channel gskill kit will do just fine.


The CPU will be i9-7940x, 7960x or 7980xe. Leaning toward the 7980xe.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> The CPU will be i9-7940x, 7960x or 7980xe. Leaning toward the 7980xe.


just be aware... mixing kits can, well... give mixed results. If you can, get a quad channel kit.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> just be aware... mixing kits can, well... give mixed results. If you can, get a quad channel kit.


Yes, I do not mix kits. I am going to buy 4x8gb for 32 gb's 3600 c16 or 3866 c18. Thanks


----------



## pphx459

They should release 4x8's for 4000+ already lol


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pphx459*
> 
> They should release 4x8's for 4000+ already lol


Yes they have these kits availible now.









https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232460

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232618


----------



## pphx459

Dang, they weren't available when i picked up 3866's


----------



## JMTH

Anyone know if / where you can monitor the Cache V and VCCSA on a X99-Deluxe ii? Or know what the actual default value is?

Checked AIDA64, only has CPU Core and VCCIO...
Checked XTU, just says "default"...
Checked HWiNFO64, nada, and nothing that is named like VINX (x = 3, 4, 5, etc) even close to that I have mine set at.
Checked SIV64x, just shows the offset (if any), has something called CPU SA but its mimicking CPU Core which goes from .5 ish to 4.75 ish not sure if its volts or watts lol.

I have read it might be on the ASUS AI 3, but looking at the manual it looks like its just a place where you can set it.

I asked ASUS via the chat window, said they would have the engineering department send me an email.
Asked AIDA64 via email, nothing yet.
Tried to post a question on HWiNFO's site but couldnt get the registration validation email sent to me hehe, so I couldnt post a question.

The reason I ask is now that I think I have maxed out on my 24/7 configuration, which is a tad different then I posted a few days ago lol. I wanted to switch CPU to adaptive and Cache and VCCSA to offset and get some power savings. I cant see them so I am just taking shots in the dark.

Any help is much appreciated!


----------



## NYU87

Just picked up another set of 4x8GB G.Skill Triden Z 3600MHz CL16 memory kit for a total of 64GB.



Anyone have experience overclocking memory on X299 with all 8 DIMMs filled?


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @ 4.5 / 3.7 Cache --- 3200 Mhz C13-14-13-29-1T --- VCore 1.356v Adaptive --- Cache +0.250v Offset --- DRAM 1.380v --- SA +0.084v Offset --- VCCIO CPU 1.06875v --- 3 hour Gsat (BASH) Stressapptest -W -M 59392 -s 10800 --pause_delay 14440 --- G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW --- ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.



Pic With HWiNFO because AIDA wasnt showing the right Cache clock.


Took 10 test runs and all day but I was able to get Adaptive/Offset working heh.

Think this will be my final 24/7 until I delid hehe. Unless someone can suggest something that I can improve.


----------



## Silent Scone

You'll be two gens behind by the time you actually use your machine


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Anyone know if / where you can monitor the Cache V and VCCSA on a X99-Deluxe ii? Or know what the actual default value is?
> 
> Checked AIDA64, only has CPU Core and VCCIO...
> Checked XTU, just says "default"...
> Checked HWiNFO64, nada, and nothing that is named like VINX (x = 3, 4, 5, etc) even close to that I have mine set at.
> Checked SIV64x, just shows the offset (if any), has something called CPU SA but its mimicking CPU Core which goes from .5 ish to 4.75 ish not sure if its volts or watts lol.
> 
> I have read it might be on the ASUS AI 3, but looking at the manual it looks like its just a place where you can set it.
> 
> I asked ASUS via the chat window, said they would have the engineering department send me an email.
> Asked AIDA64 via email, nothing yet.
> Tried to post a question on HWiNFO's site but couldnt get the registration validation email sent to me hehe, so I couldnt post a question.
> 
> The reason I ask is now that I think I have maxed out on my 24/7 configuration, which is a tad different then I posted a few days ago lol. I wanted to switch CPU to adaptive and Cache and VCCSA to offset and get some power savings. I cant see them so I am just taking shots in the dark.
> 
> Any help is much appreciated!


both cache and vsa are at load levels when in bios *IF* you set the boot to Max Turbo Performance in bios. VSA will display correctly in bios and cache also. These values are reported... not quite as accurate as measured with a DMM, but very close.


----------



## sabishiihito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYU87*
> 
> Just picked up another set of 4x8GB G.Skill Triden Z 3600MHz CL16 memory kit for a total of 64GB.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have experience overclocking memory on X299 with all 8 DIMMs filled?


Looks like you get to be the pioneer in that field


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You'll be two gens behind by the time you actually use your machine


Hehe last time I bought a computer it was about a year old tech wise. It lasted me 7 years hehe. This one should give me around 5-6 so plenty of life left. For my application at least.


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> both cache and vsa are at load levels when in bios *IF* you set the boot to Max Turbo Performance in bios. VSA will display correctly in bios and cache also. These values are reported... not quite as accurate as measured with a DMM, but very close.


Which settings? Here are screenshots of my BIOS and the settings text file. Would you mind looking through them and see if you can spot anything I should change please? Also point out which to change to max turbo so I can see the Cache and VCCSA?

Oh yeah, and do you set your RTL/IOL to Auto or do you type the settings in? Whenever I try and type the settings in it will not POST.

Thanks!

45CPU_37C_32Mem_09222017.zip 4542k .zip file


45CPU_37Cache_32Mem_setting_09222017.txt 35k .txt file


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Which settings? Here are screenshots of my BIOS and the settings text file. Would you mind looking through them and see if you can spot anything I should change please? Also point out which to change to max turbo so I can see the Cache and VCCSA?
> 
> Oh yeah, and do you set your RTL/IOL to Auto or do you type the settings in? Whenever I try and type the settings in it will not POST.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 45CPU_37C_32Mem_09222017.zip 4542k .zip file
> 
> 
> 45CPU_37Cache_32Mem_setting_09222017.txt 35k .txt file


Hey man, thanks for the info... here's a few suggestions. You do not need. nor should you set RTLs and IOLs manually - these change/drift with freq, voltage and... the weather! Just leave dram training at the default for now and all rtls/iols on auto. They are just not worth the effort to set manually - especially when there are so many other settings that need tuning first:
1. Strap to 100
2. *CPUSVID to Enabled or Auto (critical if you are using Adaptive) - the CPU and power section need to communicate. Only disable CPUSVID if you run full manual mode.*
3. Cpu spread spectrum - disabled4> VRM spread spec - disabled
4. CPU power phase - optimized or extreme
5. CPU current 140+ (tho Auto should be fine for most OCs)
6. Dram Phase to opt or extreme
7. cpu power limit: 300 to 500 (this is in watts)
8. Package Power time limit to 127 (type in 130... 127 is the limit)
9. PCIE gen settings.. set these to Auto unless you know a particular card must run at less that GEN3 (the Auto rules work fine for new cards.. legacy may need manual setting)
10. Fast boot to Enabled (unless you have driver loading issues. THIS IS NOT the same as enabling memory fast boot)
11. Boot performance mode to Max turbo Performance. (your bios voltage will/should reflect actual under high-idle)


----------



## chibi

^JP for President, there'd be a lot of lost souls if not for your continuous help


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Hey man, thanks for the info... here's a few suggestions. You do not need. nor should you set RTLs and IOLs manually - these change/drift with freq, voltage and... the weather! Just leave dram training at the default for now and all rtls/iols on auto. They are just not worth the effort to set manually - especially when there are so many other settings that need tuning first:
> 1. Strap to 100
> 2. *CPUSVID to Enabled or Auto (critical if you are using Adaptive) - the CPU and power section need to communicate. Only disable CPUSVID if you run full manual mode.*
> 3. Cpu spread spectrum - disabled4> VRM spread spec - disabled
> 4. CPU power phase - optimized or extreme
> 5. CPU current 140+ (tho Auto should be fine for most OCs)
> 6. Dram Phase to opt or extreme
> 7. cpu power limit: 300 to 500 (this is in watts)
> 8. Package Power time limit to 127 (type in 130... 127 is the limit)
> 9. PCIE gen settings.. set these to Auto unless you know a particular card must run at less that GEN3 (the Auto rules work fine for new cards.. legacy may need manual setting)
> 10. Fast boot to Enabled (unless you have driver loading issues. THIS IS NOT the same as enabling memory fast boot)
> 11. Boot performance mode to Max turbo Performance. (your bios voltage will/should reflect actual under high-idle)


Sweet, sounds good. I was having processor usage/current issues that went away when I switched #3 on the list. I'll post the thread number when I get home. It's like 5 to 10 pages back by now I think. I'll update it all or most hehe and let ya know how it goes. Thanks!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Sweet, sounds good. I was having processor usage/current issues that went away when I switched #3 on the list. I'll post the thread number when I get home. It's like 5 to 10 pages back by now I think. I'll update it all or most hehe and let ya know how it goes. Thanks!


you're welcome. remember to verify the adaptive vcore and all other voltages after Enabling CPUSVID. Frankly... I'm surprised you got this far with it disabled (unless the bios has a fail-safe auto rule to enable it).


----------



## JMTH

Yeah it seemed to be working fine. All I did in windows was set the cpu usage min or something (can't remember the name) from 100% to 5%.


----------



## JMTH

So for Boot Performance Mode I only have 2 options, Max performance (which is what it was set at) and Max Efficient. Nothing about turbo. Am I in the right setting? Advanced, Advanced/Cpu Configuration, Boot performance mode.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> So for Boot Performance Mode I only have 2 options, Max performance (which is what it was set at) and Max Efficient. Nothing about turbo. Am I in the right setting? Advanced, Advanced/Cpu Configuration, Boot performance mode.


yeah - seems only ROG boards have the additional choice. Sorry. Max Perf on you deluxe should be he same...


----------



## JMTH

Here is that post I was talking about LINK.

Looks like it was "CPU Power Duty Control" or "CPU Integrated VR Efficiency Management" that was giving me fits with HCI. CPU Speed Spectrum doesnt look like its doing anything to the current, except now I am only getting spikes on the 3.3v line instead of both 3.3v and 5v. So it must be making it a little better hehe or its one of the other settings that were changed







.



And it looks like you already answered the one about Max Turbo Performance, but I did take a screenshot anyway!



Running HCI currently, will post tomorrow if it goes well, in another week if it doesnt lol.

EDIT: Oh and the windows thing I changed was "Advanced Power Option, Process Power Management, Minimum processor state, Setting:" was 100% set to 5%.

RE-EDIT: For the PCI-E clock setting, in the middle of all the tuning I was working on the M.2 speed issue I was having. Changed it hoping the shared lane would drive the M.2 to Gen3, but ultimately fixed that by using 100.0 BCLK. Then left it there because I was also trying to get the Thunderbolt 3 card to work correctly. Its still not working, but I put it on the back-burner it until I finalized the OC.

Thanks again!


----------



## JMTH

So it looks like I have some cpu/cache instability.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you're welcome. remember to verify the adaptive vcore and all other voltages after Enabling CPUSVID. Frankly... I'm surprised you got this far with it disabled (unless the bios has a fail-safe auto rule to enable it).


You cursed me on purpose!!! HCI lasted till around 200% then BSOD. I have been slowly cranking up the Cache offset and getting RealBench stable, once I hit 8 hours ill run through Gsat and HCI again.









0.250 crashed on HCI ~200%
0.260 instability found in RB after 30 mins
0.270 crashed in RB after an hour and a half
0.280 > 2 hours so far hehe

I did however notice that the BIOS is not showing the Cache or VCCSA voltage still. Did I need to do something more to get it to work? I saw in another post you made to update the chipset drivers, I had already done that, but I did it again. Still nothing.


----------



## ssateneth

I don't suppose anyone has a step by step guide to install/update the latest version of stressapptest on windows 10 using the bash program? I got bash running but it only has stressapptest 1.0.6 and the latest is 1.0.8. It freezes when resuming threads for power spike (the program does) but the computer remains responsive. The CPUs remain loaded but in a lower power-like loaded state. It's a known issue and some threads describe the same issue and the workaround is to set --pause_delay to something so high that it never pauses.

So yah, I want to update to 1.0.8, but im linux dumb. I just need a list of commands to run to get the latest 1.0.8 installed instead of the 1.0.6


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> I don't suppose anyone has a step by step guide to install/update the latest version of stressapptest on windows 10 using the bash program? I got bash running but it only has stressapptest 1.0.6 and the latest is 1.0.8. It freezes when resuming threads for power spike (the program does) but the computer remains responsive. The CPUs remain loaded but in a lower power-like loaded state. It's a known issue and some threads describe the same issue and the workaround is to set --pause_delay to something so high that it never pauses.
> 
> So yah, I want to update to 1.0.8, but im linux dumb. I just need a list of commands to run to get the latest 1.0.8 installed instead of the 1.0.6


https://www.windowscentral.com/how-install-bash-shell-command-line-windows-10


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> So it looks like I have some cpu/cache instability.
> You cursed me on purpose!!! HCI lasted till around 200% then BSOD. I have been slowly cranking up the Cache offset and getting RealBench stable, once I hit 8 hours ill run through Gsat and HCI again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 0.250 crashed on HCI ~200%
> 0.260 instability found in RB after 30 mins
> 0.270 crashed in RB after an hour and a half
> 0.280 > 2 hours so far hehe
> 
> I did however notice that the BIOS is not showing the Cache or VCCSA voltage still. Did I need to do something more to get it to work? I saw in another post you made to update the chipset drivers, I had already done that, but I did it again. Still nothing.


or just lower the cache multiplier one notch rather than raising the voltage. And yeah - IDK*** is going on there with VSA voltage in bios. Have you determined optimal voltage in full manual mode before using offsets or adaptive?


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> https://www.windowscentral.com/how-install-bash-shell-command-line-windows-10


Nono, I already have the bash shell installed, and I installed stressapptest with the sudo apt-get install stressapptest command, but that installs verison 1.0.6. I want the latest, 1.0.8.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Nono, I already have the bash shell installed, and I installed stressapptest with the sudo apt-get install stressapptest command, but that installs verison 1.0.6. I want the latest, 1.0.8.


Hello

Nick's version is available at the link below.

https://github.com/stressapptest/stressapptest


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> or just lower the cache multiplier one notch rather than raising the voltage. And yeah - IDK*** is going on there with VSA voltage in bios. Have you determined optimal voltage in full manual mode before using offsets or adaptive?


I have not switched it back to manual again, I figured it was close enough to just fiddle with hehe. Got it stable finally for an 8 hour RB. Had to increase the core voltage to 1.370v and cache offset at 0.280v. Running BASH(Gsat) 3 hour now. If that's good then I might try and dial back the cache offset or I might just move on to fixing the thunderbolt 3 card hehe.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> Nono, I already have the bash shell installed, and I installed stressapptest with the sudo apt-get install stressapptest command, but that installs verison 1.0.6. I want the latest, 1.0.8.


Have you updated Bash, "sudo apt-get update", without the quotes. To update stressapptest it's "sudo apt-get upgrade stressapptest" I think. I'm running stress atm so I can't check. Also Scone and Jpmboy recommend manually setting the ram level and disabling the power test. "Stressapptest -W -M XXXXX -s SSSS --pause_delay DDDD"
Where XXXXX= Your Ram total * .90625,
SSSS= Test time in seconds per hour (1 hour 3600,2 hours 7200,3 hours 10800,4 hours 14400)
DDDD= anything higher then SSSS.

I have 64GB (65536MB) and usually do 3 hour tests, so it's "stressapptest -W -M 59392 -s 10800 --pause_delay 14400"


----------



## JMTH

And back to stable. I still might mess with lowering the Cache a bit, but ill save that until next week.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> And back to stable. I still might mess with lowering the Cache a bit, but ill save that until next week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice.


----------



## thebski

What are people seeing for attainable clocks and timings on Skylake-X? I am going to pick up the Apex for the motherboard. Still undecided on the CPU. Most likely a 7820X or 7900X. I have had my eyes on the 32 GB 4000 MHz kit of Corsair Dominator Platinum, but I'm not sure if SKX can do that high or not. I will be tuning the timings as tight as possible as well.

Thanks!


----------



## Nizzen

4000 mhz is easy on skylake x. 4200 is doable on apex


----------



## Artah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> What are people seeing for attainable clocks and timings on Skylake-X? I am going to pick up the Apex for the motherboard. Still undecided on the CPU. Most likely a 7820X or 7900X. I have had my eyes on the 32 GB 4000 MHz kit of Corsair Dominator Platinum, but I'm not sure if SKX can do that high or not. I will be tuning the timings as tight as possible as well.
> 
> Thanks!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> 4000 mhz is easy on skylake x. 4200 is doable on apex


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> 4000 mhz is easy on skylake x. 4200 is doable on apex


I don't know if this counts but I'm running 4200 on R6E, had issues in the beginning but I got it straightened out. I used XMP with no CPU OC on a 7900x for now but I did a few memory tests and it was fine. Gskill 8x8GB kit.

I can run 4000MHz all day long on any kit that I had including some 3200MHz corsair dominator platinum C15 kits on either R6A or R6E.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artah*
> 
> I don't know if this counts but I'm running 4200 on R6E, had issues in the beginning but I got it straightened out. I used XMP with no CPU OC on a 7900x for now but I did a few memory tests and it was fine. Gskill 8x8GB kit.
> 
> I can run 4000MHz all day long on any kit that I had including some 3200MHz corsair dominator platinum C15 kits on either R6A or R6E.


4200Mhz is tough for most CPU, if you have one that can do this stable with reasonable timings - then I'd show proof as there won't be many others showing those speeds.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> 4000 mhz is easy on skylake x. 4200 is doable on apex


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artah*
> 
> I don't know if this counts but I'm running 4200 on R6E, had issues in the beginning but I got it straightened out. I used XMP with no CPU OC on a 7900x for now but I did a few memory tests and it was fine. Gskill 8x8GB kit.
> 
> I can run 4000MHz all day long on any kit that I had including some 3200MHz corsair dominator platinum C15 kits on either R6A or R6E.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 4200Mhz is tough for most CPU, if you have one that can do this stable with reasonable timings - then I'd show proof as there won't be many others showing those speeds.


Thanks for the input guys. I guess I will just buy the 4000 MHz kit and try to run 4000 with as tight as possible timings. I will try my 3200 MHz Dom Platinum SE's and see how far they will go on it also.

Pretty impressive if your 3200 MHz kits will do 4000 on SL-X, Artah.


----------



## Artah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 4200Mhz is tough for most CPU, if you have one that can do this stable with reasonable timings - then I'd show proof as there won't be many others showing those speeds.


What should I post to show it? The fix that did it for me was that I arranged the sticks so the first four serials was placed on the first quad slots. I'm thinking they bin it by 4 and not by 8 so 8x8 is the same as two kits of 4x8 this is tridentz gskill. It wasn't voltage on SA,IO,memory or cpu.

Here is some tests, I'll do the OP test in a sec.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artah*
> 
> What should I post to show it? The fix that did it for me was that I arranged the sticks so the first four serials was placed on the first quad slots. I'm thinking they bin it by 4 and not by 8 so 8x8 is the same as two kits of 4x8 this is tridentz gskill. It wasn't voltage on SA,IO,memory or cpu.


Try the tests in the OP? lol


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artah*
> 
> What should I post to show it? The fix that did it for me was that I arranged the sticks so the first four serials was placed on the first quad slots. I'm thinking they bin it by 4 and not by 8 so 8x8 is the same as two kits of 4x8 this is tridentz gskill. It wasn't voltage on SA,IO,memory or cpu.


Hello

They are binned as 8 modules not 2 sets of 4. The way the serial numbers fell is coincidence nothing more.


----------



## Artah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Try the tests in the OP? lol


it crashed close to 100% so I guess it does not qualify, it may be the 4.6GHz OC on the CPU but I'll try it again another time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> They are binned as 8 modules not 2 sets of 4. The way the serial numbers fell is coincidence nothing more.


That's strange because I could not get it to work without having issues right away until I re-arranged the modules.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artah*
> 
> That's strange because I could not get it to work without having issues right away until I re-arranged the modules.


Hello

Slot binning is a common procedure when attempting to push memory speed/timings to the edge.


----------



## Artah

Here you go, I think I have all the relevant info, the motherboard is R6E.


----------



## Silent Scone

lol those instances. That's not a bad cpu, OCUK binning has shown less than 10% can do those speeds. If the system crashed just after one pass it's probably about as stable as I managed, in that benchmarking is fine - but not a lot else. Like I said, it's tough


----------



## Artah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol those instances. That's not a bad cpu, OCUK binning has shown less than 10% can do those speeds. If the system crashed just after one pass it's probably about as stable as I managed, in that benchmarking is fine - but not a lot else. Like I said, it's tough


On that second run I reduced the usage of memory by 1GB and turned off the screensaver. I was initially testing 97 or 98% of the ram. I guess 2GB of memory for the OS may not have been enough or the screen saver kicked in.


----------



## pantsaregood

Is there a rough idea of what kind of VDIMM or VCCSA is safe with Skylake-X?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pantsaregood*
> 
> Is there a rough idea of what kind of VDIMM or VCCSA is safe with Skylake-X?


try to stick below 1.5 VDIMM and 1.15v VCCSA


----------



## becks

Is there a reason why my G.Skill 2x16Gb set does not want to do C14 at all....at any speeds ? am I missing anything ?

Can do C13...C15...C16...C17....not C14 (14-14-24/28 1T)


----------



## Kimir

if you can do c13, why does it matters?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> if you can do c13, why does it matters?


Cause of reasons... and sweet spot..

I can either run 3733 @ 15 or 3400 @ 13 but can't 3600 @ 14.....3600 @ 15 is to low on V.....& 3600 @ 13 is to high on V for 24/7


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Cause of reasons... and sweet spot..
> 
> I can either run 3733 @ 15 or 3400 @ 13 but can't 3600 @ 14.....3600 @ 15 is to low on V.....& 3600 @ 13 is to high on V for 24/7


I don't think the problem is C14, but C14 @ 3600 - can you do C14 @ 3400?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I don't think the problem is C14, but C14 @ 3600 - can you do C14 @ 3400?


I think 3200 and lower are the only ones doing C14 with this kit...and I don't know why...


----------



## Jpmboy

struggle, struggle - and all it was is to set the iol chB to 8 instead of 7. (auto gave various numbers on each post.. up to 13). Doing that, I was able to lower voltages,



edit: I'm really liking this AGON 1440P 144Hz monitor for the price..


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> struggle, struggle - and all it was is to set the iol chB to 8 instead of 7. (auto gave various numbers on each post.. up to 13). Doing that, I was able to lower voltages,
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: *I'm really liking this AGON 1440P 144Hz monitor* for the price..


I know that feeling - I just moved from 2x 1920x1200 EIZOs to an Asus 3840x2160 PA329Q and loving it. I did spend a whole day messing with display scale factor and text sizes (thank you TenForums!), but now it's just right









EDIT: BTW, I got True Launch Bar to let me move the pinned task bar icons to the center - 3840 makes a long way to move around!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I know that feeling - I just moved from 2x 1920x1200 EIZOs to an Asus 3840x2160 PA329Q and loving it. I did spend a whole day messing with display scale factor and text sizes (thank you TenForums!), but now it's just right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: BTW, I got True Launch Bar to let me move the pinned task bar icons to the center - 3840 makes a long way to move around!


4K is a stretch. I've had a 55" 4k monitor for several years now (an early 4K30 Seiki) Great for everything except games. That said, I do have an ASUS 1400P/144Hz and this AGON.
How do you like th4e ASUS 4K monitor? Nice, right?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 4K is a stretch. I've had a 55" 4k monitor for several years now (an early 4K30 Seiki) Great for everything except games. That said, I do have an ASUS 1400P/144Hz and this AGON.
> How do you like th4e ASUS 4K monitor? Nice, right?


It's beautiful. I'm using a custom scaling of 120% (it defaults to 150, too much for my liking). However I had to switch from HDMI input to Mini Displayport. HDMI took too long to respond to the input and would miss the Intel BIOS screen altogether. Mini Displayport responds quicker and shows it enough so I can hit the activation key. I'm using the Adobe RGB mode which is factory calibrated, and while probably not perfect it looks gorgeous. Haven't done my own calibration yet using CalMAN.


----------



## Achura

Maybe some in this thread can throw me some pointers.









I can't seem to get my GSkill F4-3000C14Q-64GTZ (B-Die) stable on my X299 TUF Mark I, BIOS 0802 . Passmark Memtest shows no errors.
Prime95 custom in place runs fine, even the 800k which should test RAM/VDIMM, Realbench passes too while HCI throws errors, sometimes under 10%. Tried ranges from 0.76 to 1.2 for IO & SA.

With a speed of 2800 14-14-14-34-1T and auto VCCSA (~0.816 - 0.832) and auto VCCIO (~1.008 - 1.024) it runs and passes HCI Memtest at 110%, currently running over night for >400%.

I read out the XMP profile with SIV, but in BIOS I can't set the trrdl to 8, it only allows <= 7 which is what Auto sets. Could that be it or should I send the RAM back for a new set?

After nearly a week of tinkering (the 7820X OC w/ mesh was done in 1.5 days of that) I'm completely stumped.


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @ 4.5 / 3.7 Cache --- 3200 Mhz C13-14-13-29-1T --- VCore 1.370v Adaptive --- Cache +0.280v Offset --- DRAM 1.380v --- SA +0.084v Offset --- VCCIO CPU 1.06875v --- 3 hour Gsat (BASH) Stressapptest -W -M 59392 -s 10800 --pause_delay 14440 --- G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW --- ASUS X99-Deluxe ii.



Ok got ThunderboltEX 3 Card installed and stabilized the adaptive\offset settings. Humm, ok if I cant find something else to mess with I am going to have to start working with this machine hehe.

I am still debating on delidding the cpu. I can hit 4.6 GHz at 1.44v (maybe less, I didnt really check), just did some entries for the Rookie Rumble 48, 7th place atm hehe. I didnt do any stability testing just XTU, Geekbench4, and X265. I could of pushed it more I think. I was just too tired to mess with the BLCK, maybe tomorrow hehe. Man I suck at XTU, I can never seem to bump it up enough. Seems like its pretty Memory and Cache dependent.


----------



## Silent Scone

I promise to update the thread tomorrow


----------



## chibi

_Promises are meant to be broken._


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> _Promises are meant to be broken._


They are indeed


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Thanks for the input guys. I guess I will just buy the 4000 MHz kit and try to run 4000 with as tight as possible timings. I will try my 3200 MHz Dom Platinum SE's and see how far they will go on it also.
> 
> Pretty impressive if your 3200 MHz kits will do 4000 on SL-X, Artah.


Most GSKILL b-die kits should have a fair amount of leg room. This is with this kit: https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtz


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Most GSKILL b-die kits should have a fair amount of leg room. This is with this kit: https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtz


Can you please tell me how to run this memory benchmark? Link and "how to do it" ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Can you please tell me how to run this memory benchmark? Link and "how to do it" ?


No problem. It's GSAT run within Windows using BASH client. Read the OP on the AMD side.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1628751/official-amd-ryzen-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread/0_40


----------



## CptSpig

If anyone is interested.

I have my X99 MSI Godlike Gaming carbon for sale on the market place. See link below. I also have a i7-6950x and 32gb of 3200 Corsair Dominator Platinum memory for sale.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1639091/msi-godlike-gaming-carbon-mb-intel-i7-6950x-and-corsair-32gb-3200-mhz-dominator-platinum#post_26366632


----------



## Praz

Hello

Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG APEX X299 --- 4000 16-17-17-36-1T --- 1.38V --- SA 0.895V --- IO 0.995V --- HCI 800% --- GSAT 2 Hours -- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)


----------



## Artah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG APEX X299 --- 4000 16-17-17-36-1T --- 1.38V --- SA 0.895V --- IO 0.995V --- HCI 800% --- GSAT 2 Hours -- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice, did you have the 2nd and 3rd timings on auto?


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- i7 7800X @ 4.7 / 3.0 --- 4200Mhz -C17-17-17 -36 1T --- 1.42v --- SA -- 0.945v ---- VCCIO -- 0.97v --- HCI memtest 700%

32 Gb of G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA (2 sets )

Did this run a while ago but have moved the 7800X on now and waiting for a higher core count cpu.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> Praz -- [email protected] 4.7/3.1 --- Asus ROG APEX X299 --- 4000 16-17-17-36-1T --- 1.38V --- SA 0.895V --- IO 0.995V --- HCI 800% --- GSAT 2 Hours -- F4-3600C15D-16GTZ (2 Sets)


new 7820?


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artah*
> 
> Nice, did you have the 2nd and 3rd timings on auto?


Hello

Most of the timings are left on auto. The majority of the timings, at least on ASUS boards, need no user intervention for either stability or performance when dialing in stability for 24/7 use. I know there has been quite a bit of noise in some of the threads here over the last couple of months to the contrary but most of that is just nonsense.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> new 7820?


Hello

Same CPU. It just takes a lot of work as the characteristics of this processor are so much different than most other processors.


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice. Honestly, I've not felt any great urge to dial in anything other than 4000Mhz CAS 16 on this 7900X. Any additional performance is likely to be gained by raising mesh higher than 3Ghz


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> Most of the timings are left on auto. The majority of the timings, at least on ASUS boards, need no user intervention for either stability or performance when dialing in stability for 24/7 use. I know there has been quite a bit of noise in some of the threads here over the last couple of months to the contrary but most of that is just nonsense.
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> Same CPU. It just takes a lot of work as the characteristics of this processor are so much different than most other processors.


cool - just took you a while to figure it out. now I know it's hopeless for me.


----------



## ogider

Noone with memory OC results on "new z370" and Coffee Lake platform?
Probably because there are no Apex in stores yet.


----------



## T800

DDR4 2400 C10 vs DDR4 4000 C18. I don’t know exactly which one is better.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> DDR4 2400 C10 vs DDR4 4000 C18. I don't know exactly which one is better.


Their both pretty "bad" ...I personally would go with the 4000 C18 and maybe drop to 3866 C15/C16


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> DDR4 2400 C10 vs DDR4 4000 C18. I don't know exactly which one is better.


Higher bandwidt is ALLWAYS better with 2xgpu and/or with fast gpu's







So ddr4 is better in most new games


----------



## T800

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Higher bandwidt is ALLWAYS better with 2xgpu and/or with fast gpu's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So ddr4 is better in most new games


Thank you, but I think you misunderstood something, both of them are DDR4 memory kits or I misunderstood your answer.


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> Thank you, but I think you misunderstood something, both of them are DDR4 memory kits or I misunderstood your answer.


forgot to write ddr4 *4000* is better in most new games


----------



## aznguyen316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Noone with memory OC results on "new z370" and Coffee Lake platform?
> Probably because there are no Apex in stores yet.


Not exactly sure what type of details you want, but I have this kit: https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3000c14d-16gvk

Capacity 16GB (8GBx2)
Tested Speed 3000MHz
Tested Latency 14-14-14-34

Samsung B-Die

On my Z370 Asus Prime A with 8600K,

I have it at 3733MHz 16-16-16-36 @ 1.353V (bios shows 1.36V rounded up)

I used this guys overclocking timings: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/769657-G-Skill-Trident-Z-2x8GB-DDR4-3000-CL14-F4-3000C14D-16GTZ
I believe it is similar ram, just not the Trident Z.

Did not boot to BIOS with this: 4000 17-17-17-36 1.35V.

Tested my timings with AIDA64 memory/cache and gaming.

8600K is at 5Ghz 1.28V at the moment. Delidded under custom loop.


----------



## ogider

is there any progress in the imc cpu.
Based on the performance that people achieve

4000MHz and more.Often it was only available on top-of-the-range mainboards. z270 chipset.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> Thank you, but I think you misunderstood something, both of them are DDR4 memory kits or I misunderstood your answer.


quad or dual channel configuration is an important factor if measuring performance with bandwidth or latency. Ideally, you want to tune the ram for both, the best you can. In many settings, low latency can be beneficial, especially in poorly threaded apps.


----------



## T800

I am going to use them on a quad chan. config.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> I am going to use them on a quad chan. config.


there's no mystery or secret sauce... shoot for the highest frequency and lowest latency the kit can handle. (what an epiphany, right?) Bandwidth will track right along. And, there are lots of gains to be made with secondary/3rd timings.


----------



## T800

"...shoot for the highest frequency and lowest latency..."

I do not know what to say. :lol:

Whatever, have a nice day man, you make me laugh.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> "...shoot for the highest frequency and lowest latency..."
> 
> I do not know what to say. :lol:
> 
> Whatever, have a nice day man, you make me laugh.


Yeah, that comment is a real rib tickler...


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> "...shoot for the highest frequency and lowest latency..."
> 
> I do not know what to say. :lol:
> 
> Whatever, have a nice day man, you make me laugh.


4000mhz is easy with all x299 MB. 4200mhz is hard, but i managed to run 4200 on apex. Not msi tomahawk or asrock taichi.

Aim for 4000mhz and cl 16. That is a pretty good allrounder


----------



## T800

Allright, thank you.


----------



## T800

My options are : Gskill 4000 C18 RGB Kit and Gskill 3600 C15 kit.

I'll buy a pair of these of course for quad chan. usage(total of 4x8GB)

Gskill 4000 C18 RGB kit is in the QVL of Rampage VI Apex but 3600 C15 kit is not. Latency wise 3600 C15 kit faster than 4000 C18 kit(according to this formula I found (CAS LATENCY/Bandwith)x2000)). Buying two of 2x8GB 3600 C15 kits is also the cheaper option.

Anybody have any experience with this Gskill 3600 C15 kit with Rampage VI Apex ?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> My options are : Gskill 4000 C18 RGB Kit and Gskill 3600 C15 kit.
> 
> I'll buy a pair of these of course for quad chan. usage(total of 4x8GB)
> 
> Gskill 4000 C18 RGB kit is in the QVL of Rampage VI Apex but 3600 C15 kit is not. Latency wise 3600 C15 kit faster than 4000 C18 kit(according to this formula I found (CAS LATENCY/Bandwith)x2000)). Buying two of 2x8GB 3600 C15 kits is also the cheaper option.
> 
> Anybody have any experience with this Gskill 3600 C15 kit with Rampage VI Apex ?


I have Gskill 3600 C15...2x16Gb Samsung Double sided...goes up to 4000 for benchmark and 3733/3866 for 24/7 on a m-itx board (Asus Maximus Viii Impact)
If you know your Ram OC-ing...i'd go for it and push it ...you should have more headroom than me as 8gb modules are usually Samsung single sided..


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> My options are : Gskill 4000 C18 RGB Kit and Gskill 3600 C15 kit.
> 
> I'll buy a pair of these of course for quad chan. usage(total of 4x8GB)
> 
> Gskill 4000 C18 RGB kit is in the QVL of Rampage VI Apex but 3600 C15 kit is not. Latency wise 3600 C15 kit faster than 4000 C18 kit(according to this formula I found (CAS LATENCY/Bandwith)x2000)). Buying two of 2x8GB 3600 C15 kits is also the cheaper option.
> 
> Anybody have any experience with this Gskill 3600 C15 kit with Rampage VI Apex ?


I running g.skill 3600 c15 with 7980xe and Apex now








@ 4000 c17 24/7 and c15 for bench.


----------



## T800

For my chance it went out of stock immediately. :lol:

Thank you for the answers, I'll buy this kit whenever I find, this is the best option I think, better than more expensive 4000 C18 ones. Also I saw a bunch of 4000 C19 kits, and the rest of the timings are much worse and they are again cost more than this kit, so there is no point to buy one of them.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> 4000mhz is easy with all x299 MB. 4200mhz is hard, but i managed to run 4200 on apex. Not msi tomahawk or asrock taichi.
> 
> Aim for 4000mhz and cl 16. That is a pretty good allrounder


Update your signature you pauper


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T800*
> 
> "...*shoot for the highest frequency and lowest latency.*.."
> I do not know what to say. :lol:
> Whatever, have a nice day man, you make me laugh.


that's the "epiphany".

anywho, your original question was which is better 'low freq low latency, or high freq high latency". Neither is.








1) It's best to get a single quad channel kit, rather than mixing two dual channel kits. (the sticks are binned to work together that way - despite what some folks say thay can accomplish with 2 kits).
2) on x266 4000c16 is achievable on most any samsung b-die kit (got that running on 3600c15 (any of 3 2x8GB kits here), 3600c16 4400c19, 3200c14, and 3733c17 kits.

Main thing - get B-die and it's always best to work with a single kit in any configuration.


----------



## chibi

You can always look into the GSKILL 3600C16 4x8GB kit. Matched for x299 and z270. Last I checked on newegg, they're still available.


----------



## GXTCHA

Does anyone know if the following kit is b-die?

F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR

I believe it is but I haven't tested my own kit with Thaiphoon Burner but will tonight/this weekend. I currently have it running manually at 3600CL16 and its rock solid. If someone has pushed it to 4000 id love to hear it!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GXTCHA*
> 
> Does anyone know if the following kit is b-die?
> 
> F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR
> 
> I believe it is but I haven't tested my own kit with Thaiphoon Burner but will tonight/this weekend. I currently have it running manually at 3600CL16 and its rock solid. If someone has pushed it to 4000 id love to hear it!
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Look here









https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f13/die-ultimate-hardwareluxx-samsung-8gb-b-die-liste-alle-hersteller-13-10-17-a-1161530.html


----------



## GXTCHA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Look here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f13/die-ultimate-hardwareluxx-samsung-8gb-b-die-liste-alle-hersteller-13-10-17-a-1161530.html


Wow... incredible link. Thank you very much and that confirms it.

Repped!


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's the "epiphany".
> 
> anywho, your original question was which is better 'low freq low latency, or high freq high latency". Neither is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) It's best to get a single quad channel kit, rather than mixing two dual channel kits. (the sticks are binned to work together that way - despite what some folks say thay can accomplish with 2 kits).
> 2) on x266 4000c16 is achievable on most any samsung b-die kit (got that running on 3600c15 (any of 3 2x8GB kits here), 3600c16 4400c19, 3200c14, and 3733c17 kits.
> 
> Main thing - get B-die and it's always best to work with a single kit in any configuration.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> You can always look into the GSKILL 3600C16 4x8GB kit. Matched for x299 and z270. Last I checked on newegg, they're still available.


I just purchased this kit I figure it is best to go with a lower CL and OC the frequency: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232584


----------



## ducegt

To the two of you with 3600 kits... 3600 CL14 working perfect for me at 1.45v. TridentZ 3600 CL15 kit 8x2. My board doesn't like any higher frequency no matter how loose the timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

you can also use AID64 to check the dram manufacturer:

x266:

x99


----------



## ogider

Z370 Taichi + 8700K @ 5GHz delid

F4-3200C14D-16GTZ @ 1.5V ,1.26V SA / 1.26V VCCIO

For now only "fast" testing..but looking a way better than my old Asus z270F+7700k



But I didnt find single soft that could read temps or voltage for cpu.Only Asrock one.

Also Taichi need bios update ..I set cpu fixed for now and still got voltage drop.


----------



## GreedyMuffin

This is completely decent? This is at 1.4V.



I did this and stopped it myself as I thought I didn't need to stress it any longer. Should I try to tighten the timings? And if so, how?







I just copied someone else timings and tried.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> To the two of you with 3600 kits... 3600 CL14 working perfect for me at 1.45v. TridentZ 3600 CL15 kit 8x2. My board doesn't like any higher frequency no matter how loose the timings.


I was having all sorts of problems with one of the kits ijn dual channel... until I found out that chB needed "special" attention. Left on auto this was training all over the place and resulting in instability and/or poor performance:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread/4900_20#post_26362372


----------



## ogider

Ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4000 15-16-16-36-1T --- 1.51V --- SA 1.200V --- IO 1.200V --- HCI 500% -- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ


----------



## NIK1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4000 15-16-16-36-1T --- 1.51V --- SA 1.200V --- IO 1.200V --- HCI 500% -- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ


Is 1.51V safe for 24/7....Or is this just a temp bench to see what it will do.


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> Is 1.51V safe for 24/7....Or is this just a temp bench to see what it will do.


Up to 1.5v is within intel spec. So 1.51v is not very far away, it's within margin of error


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Up to 1.5v is within intel spec. So 1.51v is not very far away, it's within margin of error


Keep in mind error in measurement. That 1.51v reading may understate the actual voltage.


----------



## ogider

Yea. In bios I set 1.47V for this. But according to soft like OCCT/HWinfo/ASrock is 1.51V.

Also a bit better sec timings for 3600C14 testing now, than on my old 7700k z270F


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Keep in mind error in measurement. That 1.51v reading may understate the actual voltage.


While assembling Compaq servers with DEC ethernet boards, we were getting some really odd errors where things seen as having been transmitted from the source server were not actually in the receiving server. Turns out we had some motherboards and ethernet boards whose timings were within spec, but the allowable error was at the extreme of the complementary sides between the motherboard and ethernet board doubling the margin of error.

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far away ...


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> While assembling Compaq servers with DEC ethernet boards, we were getting some really odd errors where things seen as having been transmitted from the source server were not actually in the receiving server. Turns out we had some motherboards and ethernet boards whose timings were within spec, but the allowable error was at the extreme of the complementary sides between the motherboard and ethernet board doubling the margin of error.
> 
> A long, long time ago in a galaxy far away ...


I remember this story! Sometime last year in a discussion on one of these threads - I think it was the BW-E thread


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> I remember this story! Sometime last year in a discussion on one of these threads - I think it was the BW-E thread


OMG! Am I repeating myself? Senility ...


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> While assembling Compaq servers with DEC ethernet boards, we were getting some really odd errors where things seen as having been transmitted from the source server were not actually in the receiving server. Turns out we had some motherboards and ethernet boards whose timings were within spec, but the allowable error was at the extreme of the complementary sides between the motherboard and ethernet board doubling the margin of error.
> 
> A long, long time ago in a galaxy far away ...


The joys of error stacking...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> OMG! Am I repeating myself? Senility ...


some things need repeating.


----------



## zilin

Hi may anyone help me with this. Not sure whats the problem but memory seems to be showing low write speed


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zilin*
> 
> 
> 
> Hi may anyone help me with this. Not sure whats the problem but memory seems to be showing low write speed


Increase mesh to 3ghz using around 1v-1.05v and retest


----------



## zilin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Increase mesh to 3ghz using around 1v-1.05v and retest


Hi

Ive tested and still the same thing. with 3k mesh the write raise up to 74k
btw im using r6e board


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zilin*
> 
> Hi
> 
> Ive tested and still the same thing. with 3k mesh the write raise up to 74k
> btw im using r6e board


Can you post up a memtweakit screenshot? Haven't really seen many results with the 12 core to compare with


----------



## zilin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Can you post up a memtweakit screenshot? Haven't really seen many results with the 12 core to compare with




there u go

no matter i put in on all auto or or running at default jedec the write speed is very low

i can pass 500% memtest no errors


----------



## JMTH

The tertiary timings look off, unless it's not showing the correct values. What are your bios memory settings??


----------



## zilin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> The tertiary timings look off, unless it's not showing the correct values. What are your bios memory settings?


tertiary timings are all on auto

r6e 0802

btw im runing 8x8gb


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zilin*
> 
> tertiary timings are all on auto
> 
> r6e 0802
> 
> btw im runing 8x8gb










right, they look fine hehe lol.

Maybe set tRTP to 5 or tFAW to 24?

Also it looks like you have single channel ram? What is the kit part number? Is it on the QVL for your motherboard?

Are you overclocking your cache? If so to what MHz?


----------



## Nizzen

Allways use latest Aida 64 beta









https://www.aida64.com/downloads/N2IzMDI5Y2M=


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Allways use latest Aida 64 beta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aida64.com/downloads/N2IzMDI5Y2M=


----------



## venomousdesigns

Hoping someone may be able to assist, looking to purchase RAM for my new 8700k system, I've been SCOURING the internet for help but nothing concrete is coming up with regards to OC potential on 16GB vs 8GB sticks and 4xDIMM and 2xDIMM population. The RAM I'm tossing up between is:

F4-3200C14D-32GTZR (2x16GB)
F4-3200C14D-16GTZR (2x8GB) | F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR (4x8GB)

All RAM is CL14 and 3200MHz so its basically comes down to a question of Overclocking and strain on the Integrated Memory Controller (IMC) with regards to filling all 4 DIMMs and if Overclocking on higher capacity sticks (16GB vs 8GB) is worse - would it be wiser to get 2x16GB vs 2x8GB (I know that's double the quantity, but considering future proofing later if/when I need 4x8GB).

Intel 8700k
Asrock Z370 Fatal1ty K6

Thxs!


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomousdesigns*
> 
> Hoping someone may be able to assist, looking to purchase RAM for my new 8700k system, I've been SCOURING the internet for help but nothing concrete is coming up with regards to OC potential on 16GB vs 8GB sticks and 4xDIMM and 2xDIMM population. The RAM I'm tossing up between is:
> 
> F4-3200C14D-32GTZR (2x16GB)
> F4-3200C14D-16GTZR (2x8GB) | F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR (4x8GB)
> 
> All RAM is CL14 and 3200MHz so its basically comes down to a question of Overclocking and strain on the Integrated Memory Controller (IMC) with regards to filling all 4 DIMMs and if Overclocking on higher capacity sticks (16GB vs 8GB) is worse - would it be wiser to get 2x16GB vs 2x8GB (I know that's double the quantity, but considering future proofing later if/when I need 4x8GB).
> 
> Intel 8700k
> Asrock Z370 Fatal1ty K6
> 
> Thxs!


What kind of memory overclocking are you planning to do ?

Will it be for 24/7 everyday use or for benching purposes? If you are wanting to overclock your memory for benchmark purposes then do not get the RGB version of the Trident Z, as it does not overclock to tight timings at high frequencies, due to the different PCB used for the RGB lighting. You need to get the NON-RGB version of the modules for that.

8GB modules that are single sided, will overclock to higher frequencies and tighter timings than double sided 16 GB modules.


----------



## venomousdesigns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> What kind of memory overclocking are you planning to do ?
> 
> Will it be for 24/7 everyday use or for benching purposes? If you are wanting to overclock your memory for benchmark purposes then do not get the RGB version of the Trident Z, as it does not overclock to tight timings at high frequencies, due to the different PCB used for the RGB lighting. You need to get the NON-RGB version of the modules for that.
> 
> 8GB modules that are single sided, will overclock to higher frequencies and tighter timings than double sided 16 GB modules.


Thank you for the prompt response tknight! Some important points I missed out sorry haha...

Literally a complete novice to this 'new era' of Overclocking (coming from a 2600k) - I'd like to be able to get to 5GHz on the 8700k and I use it as an everyday PC; Gaming, Work (just normal Word/Excel not rendering etc) and general browsing (and I may take up Streaming now with my new PC!). Nothing extreme, I do normally put my PC to 'sleep' once I finish for the evening - unless there's a new PC game release







.

Oh crap I didn't release that about the RGB PCBs, is it that a big a difference for my non-extreme OC'ing - I'll probably like to just have them running at 3200MHz @ CL14, from benchmarks the next 'big' jump is 4266 which I'm not too keen on trying haha. I cannot for the life of me find out if these are 'single-sided' or 'double-sided' or where you saying all 16GB Modules are double-sided?

http://www.gskill.com/en/product/F4-3200C14D-16GTZR
https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-32gtzr

Basically for my light OC needs, are the 8GB Modules going to be easier to Overclock vs the 16GB Modules - I honestly don't even think I need 32GB ATM but I'm concerned with future proofing and then figured I'd ask about if I'm not doing Quad Channel (which Coffee Lake doesn't, and not sure about Ice Lake?) if its better to spend the extra now or later...

Thxs!


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomousdesigns*
> 
> Thank you for the prompt response tknight! Some important points I missed out sorry haha...
> 
> Literally a complete novice to this 'new era' of Overclocking (coming from a 2600k) - I'd like to be able to get to 5GHz on the 8700k and I use it as an everyday PC; Gaming, Work (just normal Word/Excel not rendering etc) and general browsing (and I may take up Streaming now with my new PC!). Nothing extreme, I do normally put my PC to 'sleep' once I finish for the evening - unless there's a new PC game release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh crap I didn't release that about the RGB PCBs, is it that a big a difference for my non-extreme OC'ing - I'll probably like to just have them running at 3200MHz @ CL14, from benchmarks the next 'big' jump is 4266 which I'm not too keen on trying haha. I cannot for the life of me find out if these are 'single-sided' or 'double-sided' or where you saying all 16GB Modules are double-sided?
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/F4-3200C14D-16GTZR
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-32gtzr
> 
> Basically for my light OC needs, are the 8GB Modules going to be easier to Overclock vs the 16GB Modules - I honestly don't even think I need 32GB ATM but I'm concerned with future proofing and then figured I'd ask about if I'm not doing Quad Channel (which Coffee Lake doesn't, and not sure about Ice Lake?) if its better to spend the extra now or later...
> 
> Thxs!


If you go to your motherboards website and look at the memory tab it will tell you if its Single Sided (SS) or Double Sided (DS). Just filter on G.Skill (because it looks like that is the type you want to purchase).

Right click and open in another tab to get the link to work right hehe.
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty%20Z370%20Gaming%20K6/#Memory


----------



## venomousdesigns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> If you go to your motherboards website and look at the memory tab it will tell you if its Single Sided (SS) or Double Sided (DS). Just filter on G.Skill (because it looks like that is the type you want to purchase).
> 
> Right click and open in another tab to get the link to work right hehe.
> https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty%20Z370%20Gaming%20K6/#Memory


Thanks for that JMTH! Confirmed that the 8GB Module is Single and the 16GB is Dual. Now I've spent the last 2hrs reading about the Trident RGB SDP corruption issues and am terrified!

I'm thinking now is it better I go for the plain non-RGB Trident or Ripjaw options...

F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW
F4-3200C14D-32GVK

If I can get a verdict on if I should go 2x8GB (to begin) or 2x16GB (Single vs Dual argument) with regards to being able to do the advertised CL14 @ 3200MHz (14-14-14-34) on my new Intel 8700/z370 system, I can begin to place my order







. I've gotten myself SO confused because most threads/Google results are talking about RAM issues with AMD Ryzen - does it affect us Intel'ers?

Am I correct in thinking if I went the 2x16GB route (as opposed to their 2x8GB solution - single vs dual) I would *not* be able to run them at 3200MHz 14-14-14-34 on my Asrock Z370 with Intel 8700k? Or it will run as normal, just Overclocker will be *harder* on the dual-ranked sticks?

Thxs!


----------



## zilin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Allways use latest Aida 64 beta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aida64.com/downloads/N2IzMDI5Y2M=




even using the new aida doesnt change anything

Anyone here using 7920x as well having this problem?

aida doesnt seems to recognize this cpu


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomousdesigns*
> 
> Thank you for the prompt response tknight! Some important points I missed out sorry haha...
> 
> Literally a complete novice to this 'new era' of Overclocking (coming from a 2600k) - I'd like to be able to get to 5GHz on the 8700k and I use it as an everyday PC; Gaming, Work (just normal Word/Excel not rendering etc) and general browsing (and I may take up Streaming now with my new PC!). Nothing extreme, I do normally put my PC to 'sleep' once I finish for the evening - unless there's a new PC game release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh crap I didn't release that about the RGB PCBs, is it that a big a difference for my non-extreme OC'ing - I'll probably like to just have them running at 3200MHz @ CL14, from benchmarks the next 'big' jump is 4266 which I'm not too keen on trying haha. I cannot for the life of me find out if these are 'single-sided' or 'double-sided' or where you saying all 16GB Modules are double-sided?
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/F4-3200C14D-16GTZR
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-32gtzr
> 
> Basically for my light OC needs, are the 8GB Modules going to be easier to Overclock vs the 16GB Modules - I honestly don't even think I need 32GB ATM but I'm concerned with future proofing and then figured I'd ask about if I'm not doing Quad Channel (which Coffee Lake doesn't, and not sure about Ice Lake?) if its better to spend the extra now or later...
> 
> Thxs!


For everday 24/7 use, then the RGB modules are fine, as you can overclock them to higher frequencies and moderately tighter timings. It is only when benching at C12 with tight timings, that 99% of the RGB modules just fail to train up.

For what you will be doing, I would suggest getting either the RGB or NON-RGB version of the Trident Z - 3600mhz C16-16-16-36 16GB (2x8GB) kit or 32GB (4x8GB) kit, which are the following part numbers :

3600mhz C16 16GB RGB Kit - F4-3600C16D-16GTZR
3600mhz C16 32GB RGB Kit - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR

3600mhz C16 16GB Kit - F4-3600C16D-16GTZ
3600mhz C16 32GB Kit - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZSW

They are all Single Sided B-Die modules, which will overclock a lot easier than the double sided ones.

The 3600mhz kits are the best ones for overclocking to higher frequencies, as they just bin a lot better than all the other different frequency modules.

The RGB issue of the corruption of the SPD, occurs when you change the colours using the software, because it writes the changes to the SPD section of the module. This then causes a CRC Error, which you can verify using Thaiphoon Burner, which is also the best software for when you are wanting to identify all aspects of your modules.

However this does not affect the operation of the module and can only be seen when doing a CRC check of the module in Thaiphoon. There are ways to fix the CRC Error. So if you are wanting RGB modules for the look, then don't panic and by all means get them and if you leave them running the default rainbow colour mode and never install or run the RGB software, then you will never get the CRC error.

Here is a link to a list of all the different memory IC's and which kit has what IC and whether it is single or double sided. So you can just search for your kits part number and find out exactly what it contains.

Link - Samsung and Hynix IC List


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zilin*
> 
> 
> 
> even using the new aida doesnt change anything
> 
> Anyone here using 7920x as well having this problem?
> 
> aida doesnt seems to recognize this cpu


Contact Fiery (Aida64) and explain the problem

I asked for the Vcache, and in the latest version, it's available
I am currently seeing to have the Input Voltage


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomousdesigns*
> 
> Thanks for that JMTH! Confirmed that the 8GB Module is Single and the 16GB is Dual. Now I've spent the last 2hrs reading about the Trident RGB SDP corruption issues and am terrified!
> 
> I'm thinking now is it better I go for the plain non-RGB Trident or Ripjaw options...
> 
> F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW
> F4-3200C14D-32GVK
> 
> If I can get a verdict on if I should go 2x8GB (to begin) or 2x16GB (Single vs Dual argument) with regards to being able to do the advertised CL14 @ 3200MHz (14-14-14-34) on my new Intel 8700/z370 system, I can begin to place my order
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I've gotten myself SO confused because most threads/Google results are talking about RAM issues with AMD Ryzen - does it affect us Intel'ers?
> 
> Am I correct in thinking if I went the 2x16GB route (as opposed to their 2x8GB solution - single vs dual) I would *not* be able to run them at 3200MHz 14-14-14-34 on my Asrock Z370 with Intel 8700k? Or it will run as normal, just Overclocker will be *harder* on the dual-ranked sticks?
> 
> Thxs!


Wish I could tell ya but my motherboard maxes out at 3333. I was able to get a 4x16 kit to tighten down to 13-14-13-28-1 after a lot of tweaking and looking through the thread at other people's settings.
I have seen that if you want to get onto the 4000mhz range then I believe 2x8 or 4x8 single sided samsung b die is recommended. At least that's what I remember hehe.


----------



## erocker

In regards to z370 and RAM (so far) is that most kits haven't been tested. Gigabyte has a handful, but there's many kits on the QVL. Personally, I'm finding anything over 3200MHz needs a bit more VCCIO and VCCSA over z270/Kaby Lake. It could be a bios thing... Kinda too early to tell. At least with the latest bios I can actually boot into bios at 4000Mhz... Doesn't seem very stable tho.


----------



## ogider

For me new mainboard z370 Taichi work better than z270F Asus. When it comes to getting higher memory clocks.
I have f4-3200C14D-GTZ

Atm working with 4133 CL 16-16-16 36 360 CR2 1.48V 1.2 VCCIO/SA
Without mutch problem I have 3600CL14-14-14-36-360 CR1 1.45V as well.

But at maximum, what I achieved was 4300MHz. But timings....They were not interesting.

I guess better ddr4 modules like f4-4400c19d could give more..maybe not in clocks but timings.



ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Z370 Taichi --- 4133 16-16-16-36-2T --- 1.48V --- SA 1.208V --- IO 1.192V --- Stressapptest --- 1 Hour--F4-3200C14D-16GTZ


----------



## Silent Scone

Nice work







. Now what about 1T







?


----------



## ogider

1T was on 4000 CL15-16-16 but 1.51V
http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread/4960#post_26395066


----------



## darkkraker

Hi, I have been lurking in this forum for a while but now I have been having issues with my ram, my system is:

CPU: i5 6400 @ 4.62 GHz BCLK OC
MB: ASRock Z170 Extreme6
RAM: Patriot Viper Elite 2 x 4GB DDR4-3200, CL16-16-16-36 (PVE48G320C6KRD)

Previously my CPU was at 4.7 GHz but I had problems running my ram at 3248 MHz, with auto timings my PC wouldn't post so I had to manually set the primary timings to 16-16-16-36-2T but sometimes it wouldn't post on cold boot, I lowered my BCLK OC to 4.62 GHz so I could choose 3200 MHz ram speed, now my PC post with auto timings but the timings are like 20-20-20-40 so I manually set again to 16-16-16-36-2T, if I try to lower the timings, change command rate or increase the frequency my PC won't post, it'll show error code 55 every time.

I tried messing with DRAM voltage and VCCIO/SA but it doesn't seem to help only if I go from 1.35 V to 1.49 V I'll get like CAS 15 or 14 but nothing else.

It seems like the RAM it is failing training.

So the question is: there is something I could try to lower the timings or my ram is trash and I should be grateful I could run it at stock speeds?

Thanks.

PD: English isn't my first language so if anything doesn't make sense tell me and I'll try to explain it better.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zilin*
> 
> 
> 
> even using the new aida doesnt change anything
> 
> Anyone here using 7920x as well having this problem?
> 
> aida doesnt seems to recognize this cpu


I had the same issue along with a few other people. We covered it a bit in the Skylake-X/Kaby Lake-X thread.

7920X chips and higher tend to have lower memory write performance and slightly higher memory latency. The issues seems to start with the 7920X and lessons a bit with the 7980XE. I personally believe that it's a result of the bigger die and the longer mesh routing within the CPU to support the higher core count.

I started with a 7900X, which obviously has a smaller die than the 7920X through 7980XE chips. Read and Write bandwidth on the 7900X are almost identical (~110 GB/s Read, 110GB/s Write) with Copy being slightly lower (99 GB/s Copy). Latency ~ 48ns - 49ns.

When I switched to the 7920X using the same memory configuration, Write bandwidth dropped dramatically. The absolute best I could ever get out of the same 4x8 single rank kit was ~76 GB/s Write, which wasn't even stable. Latency also increased to ~52ns - 53ns.

Anyways, here are some links to a couple of other guys seeing the same results.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3700_100#post_26369117

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26381300

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26381502

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26382232

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26382545

Here, you can see by the time it gets to the highest core count on that larger die size, the 7980XE seems to have gained some of that Write bandwidth back, but not all of it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26381326


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zilin*
> 
> 
> 
> even using the new aida doesnt change anything
> 
> Anyone here using 7920x as well having this problem?
> 
> aida doesnt seems to recognize this cpu


All x299 users have the same "problem"

It works


----------



## Mr.N00bLaR

It's been a while since I used HCI memtest. What's the proper way to test 32gb (hw-e)? I've been testing 18 instances with 1750mb per. Seems like I always seem to crash after the slowest instance hits ~300%. Looking for 2000% stability.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomousdesigns*
> 
> Thank you for the prompt response tknight! Some important points I missed out sorry haha...
> 
> Literally a complete novice to this 'new era' of Overclocking (coming from a 2600k) - I'd like to be able to get to 5GHz on the 8700k and I use it as an everyday PC; Gaming, Work (just normal Word/Excel not rendering etc) and general browsing (and I may take up Streaming now with my new PC!). Nothing extreme, I do normally put my PC to 'sleep' once I finish for the evening - unless there's a new PC game release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh crap I didn't release that about the RGB PCBs, is it that a big a difference for my non-extreme OC'ing - I'll probably like to just have them running at 3200MHz @ CL14, from benchmarks the next 'big' jump is 4266 which I'm not too keen on trying haha. I cannot for the life of me find out if these are 'single-sided' or 'double-sided' or where you saying all 16GB Modules are double-sided?
> 
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/F4-3200C14D-16GTZR
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-32gtzr
> 
> Basically for my light OC needs, are the 8GB Modules going to be easier to Overclock vs the 16GB Modules - I honestly don't even think I need 32GB ATM but I'm concerned with future proofing and then figured I'd ask about if I'm not doing Quad Channel (which Coffee Lake doesn't, and not sure about Ice Lake?) if its better to spend the extra now or later...
> 
> Thxs!


Your first and primary goal is to make sure you get an 8700k that clocks. Assuming you can find one for sale before Christmas. Silicon Lottery is your best choice if you want guaranteed 5 ghz, and you can order one with a de-lid. Get that situated and the video card situation resolved. Then assuming you have the case and PSU that you desire, then you can focus on memory. Don't worry so much about how far the memory will overclock; the most important thing, since you admitted you are just a casual overclocker and gamer, is to get fast RAM with tight timings. That's your priority. Not to get RAM which will let you set absurd tertiary timings and 65535 tREFI and 200 tRFC. That should not be your main focus. Just focus on getting quality parts, a good mainboard and a CPU that clocks well.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.N00bLaR*
> 
> It's been a while since I used HCI memtest. What's the proper way to test 32gb (hw-e)? I've been testing 18 instances with 1750mb per. Seems like I always seem to crash after the slowest instance hits ~300%. Looking for 2000% stability.


Not a fan of HCI memtest. Better to just use Memtest 86. The new version is extremely solid. UEFI version seems to be more thorough than the legacy version; the installer installs both versions which boot depending on your Bios mode. If you're in a hurry, a full pass of memtest86 should insure that your OS doesn't get scrambled. Then just boot into your OS afterwards, and run Prime 95 (you can choose AVX/FMA or non AVX if AVX frightens you; undoc.txt explains how to disable AVX, so the old 26.x isn't required. just use 29.x latest version), set min FFT to 512K, size to test at least 75% of your RAM; e.g. 24576 or higher for 32 GB), choose 3 min per FFT if you want to do it fast, or 15 min per FFT for a complete stress test, and just let her rip.

You'll be just fine with this and won't even need to deal with that crappy HCI Memtest program.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1630388/comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide


----------



## zilin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> I had the same issue along with a few other people. We covered it a bit in the Skylake-X/Kaby Lake-X thread.
> 
> 7920X chips and higher tend to have lower memory write performance and slightly higher memory latency. The issues seems to start with the 7920X and lessons a bit with the 7980XE. I personally believe that it's a result of the bigger die and the longer mesh routing within the CPU to support the higher core count.
> 
> I started with a 7900X, which obviously has a smaller die than the 7920X through 7980XE chips. Read and Write bandwidth on the 7900X are almost identical (~110 GB/s Read, 110GB/s Write) with Copy being slightly lower (99 GB/s Copy). Latency ~ 48ns - 49ns.
> 
> When I switched to the 7920X using the same memory configuration, Write bandwidth dropped dramatically. The absolute best I could ever get out of the same 4x8 single rank kit was ~76 GB/s Write, which wasn't even stable. Latency also increased to ~52ns - 53ns.
> 
> Anyways, here are some links to a couple of other guys seeing the same results.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3700_100#post_26369117
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26381300
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26381502
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26382232
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26382545
> 
> Here, you can see by the time it gets to the highest core count on that larger die size, the 7980XE seems to have gained some of that Write bandwidth back, but not all of it.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1632870/skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-combined-discussion/3900_100#post_26381326


ok thanks bro


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy -- [email protected] --- 4x8GB G.Skill (2 kits







of 3600c15) --- 4000c16 --- vsa 0.795V, vccio 1.045V, VDIMM 1.45V --- HCI memtest 2627% (36 instances)


----------



## Kimir

How many days did that take?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> How many days did that take?


Whithin couple of Hours...its the paid version + only 796 mb / instance


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> How many days did that take?


this is one case where threads actually matter!
(or do you mean, how long it took to figure out a stable configuration)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Whithin couple of Hours...its the paid version + only 796 mb / instance


36 instances... overnight. just let it run until I got up this morning.


----------



## tknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected] --- 4x8GB G.Skill (2 kits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of 3600c15) --- 4000c16 --- vsa 0.795V, vccio 1.045V, VDIMM 1.45V --- HCI memtest 2627% (36 instances)


Thats awesome and congrats on the monster of a cpu you have there.

Just out of curiousity can you do an XTU bench run at the above clocks and memory timings. Id be keen to see what score it pulls.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected] --- 4x8GB G.Skill (2 kits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of 3600c15) --- 4000c16 --- vsa 0.795V, vccio 1.045V, VDIMM 1.45V --- HCI memtest 2627% (36 instances)










The anticipation is crushing me inside.


----------



## Sobo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected] --- 4x8GB G.Skill (2 kits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of 3600c15) --- 4000c16 --- vsa 0.795V, vccio 1.045V, VDIMM 1.45V --- HCI memtest 2627% (36 instances)


Phe, but can you beat my G.Skill Trident Z 3600 CL16 kits?



That's right, there's an error even when using DEFAULT XMP profile... Truly awesome quality coming from G.Skill with Samsung and their B-die garbage.

Is there any way to solve this by adjusting something in the bios, or are the modules just broken and should be returned? Alternatively I could just run them knowing they are not fully stable in memtest, because I have not had a single issue during my day to day use. Still, logic says to return it, because this REALLY shouldn't happen.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sobo*
> 
> Phe, but can you beat my G.Skill Trident Z 3600 CL16 kits?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's right, there's an error even when using DEFAULT XMP profile... Truly awesome quality coming from G.Skill with Samsung and their B-die garbage.
> 
> Is there any way to solve this by adjusting something in the bios, or are the modules just broken and should be returned? Alternatively I could just run them knowing they are not fully stable in memtest, because I have not had a single issue during my day to day use. Still, logic says to return it, because this REALLY shouldn't happen.


when you OC ram, you put an OC on the CPU, so you may need to adjust your cpu, whether stock or OC'ed.


----------



## Sobo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> when you OC ram, you put an OC on the CPU, so you may need to adjust your cpu, whether stock or OC'ed.


Well, I'm running my 7820X fairly conservatively at 4500 core (1.14V), 3000 mesh (0.95V). I guess I could add some voltage, not sure about anything else.

Also how about memory stability test in AIDA64? Is it comparable to memtest? I hate manually running 14-15 copies every time after memory tweak and certainly not going to buy it if I use it once in three years or so.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sobo*
> 
> Well, I'm running my 7820X fairly conservatively at 4500 core (1.14V), 3000 mesh (0.95V). I guess I could add some voltage, not sure about anything else.
> 
> Also how about memory stability test in AIDA64? Is it comparable to memtest? I hate manually running 14-15 copies every time after memory tweak and certainly not going to buy it if I use it once in three years or so.


Hello

AIDA memory testing is not on the same level as HCI. As far as purchasing a copy it is only $5.00.


----------



## Mr.N00bLaR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mr.N00bLaR*
> 
> It's been a while since I used HCI memtest. What's the proper way to test 32gb (hw-e)? I've been testing 18 instances with 1750mb per. Seems like I always seem to crash after the slowest instance hits ~300%. Looking for 2000% stability.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a fan of HCI memtest. Better to just use Memtest 86. The new version is extremely solid. UEFI version seems to be more thorough than the legacy version; the installer installs both versions which boot depending on your Bios mode. If you're in a hurry, a full pass of memtest86 should insure that your OS doesn't get scrambled. Then just boot into your OS afterwards, and run Prime 95 (you can choose AVX/FMA or non AVX if AVX frightens you; undoc.txt explains how to disable AVX, so the old 26.x isn't required. just use 29.x latest version), set min FFT to 512K, size to test at least 75% of your RAM; e.g. 24576 or higher for 32 GB), choose 3 min per FFT if you want to do it fast, or 15 min per FFT for a complete stress test, and just let her rip.
> 
> You'll be just fine with this and won't even need to deal with that crappy HCI Memtest program.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1630388/comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide
Click to expand...

Despite temps being under 80c (cores+package) in blend prime95 for 48 hours and encoding for a week straight, using the guideline in this thread sent my 5820k close to tjmax with my nh-d15 with what I believe to be excellent case airflow. Can't even test 2133 with it CPU temperature issues, lol. I have been thinking about doing a custom loop but I'm not sure.


----------



## Asus11

hey guys just purchased a set of

F4-3200C14D-32GVK

has anyone got experience in overclocking 2 x 16gb sticks?

I am planning to oc would 3600CL16 be better than 3200CL14?

also whats the max safe volts for 24/7?

don't feel like killin these sticks I got a good deal of em


----------



## ducegt

I finally figured out what was preventing my RTLs from being within 1 of each other. tWTR_L alone is changing RTL directly or indirectly. XMP doens't work on my board and the kit isn't on the QVL. I use to think because auto worked that XMP was, but I was mistaken. I've never actually used an XMP profile yet.

Also, I wasted a few hours this past weekend because I didn't apply the knowledge that resetting UEFI defaults resets timings we don't have access to. I was getting errors at settings that I tested stable before countless times and at looser values until I did the reset to defaults.

Still can't do 3733 CL15 stable so 3600 CL14 it is for now and forever. Really wish I would have picked up a formula OCF board. I've never owned an asus and just don't want to spend extra because they hold a strong brand image. I'm sure Ford makes some damn good cars, but I'll never buy one. I'm a Chevy/GM guy at heart... and that's why there is a new Honda in my garage


----------



## Sobo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sobo*
> 
> Well, I'm running my 7820X fairly conservatively at 4500 core (1.14V), 3000 mesh (0.95V). I guess I could add some voltage, not sure about anything else.


It was in the CPU - upped core voltage to 1.16V and mesh voltage to 1V -> memtest passed to 500+% without a single error on 3600 16-16-16-36 1T, 320trfc, 30k trefi. Thx Jpmboy


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.N00bLaR*
> 
> Despite temps being under 80c (cores+package) in blend prime95 for 48 hours and encoding for a week straight, using the guideline in this thread sent my 5820k close to tjmax with my nh-d15 with what I believe to be excellent case airflow. Can't even test 2133 with it CPU temperature issues, lol. I have been thinking about doing a custom loop but I'm not sure.


You can disable AVX And FMA3 in prime 95 for MUCH lower temps. Read undoc.txt to see how.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


Hey .. I have a kit of g.skill 3200 C15...24/7 runs at eyther 3600 C15 1t or 3733 C16 1t. 2x16gb.. and benching up to 3866 C12

After telling people half of year that I'm rocking the 3600 C16 2x16 Kit I was just looking at my invoices and noticed I have the 3200 C15











V wise for 24/7... try and stay under 1.47 Dram and 1.235 SA & IO

I don't have terrible experience in Dram OC but I can tell you this kits are funny... mine doesn't want to do C14 at all...at any freq.
And a lot of times even when you are one V bin under they just fail to boot and trow code 55 on mb... takes lots of patience to train them that's for sure.

What I suggest is set XMP for one of your MB saved Dram profiles (3600 2x8gb kit profile ....or 3866 2.4gb kit profile)....apply and reset...let it boot in OS to train everything properly.
Than restart...go in Bios....change Primaries... freq and V to the ones desired by you and start from there.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sobo*
> 
> It was in the CPU - upped core voltage to 1.16V and mesh voltage to 1V -> memtest passed to 500+% without a single error on 3600 16-16-16-36 1T, 320trfc, 30k trefi. Thx Jpmboy


yeah - ram OC puts a differnt load on the cpu components.


----------



## Cloudforever

sub! for future build soon


----------



## NIK1

I have my GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR tightened to 14-14-14-34 T1 and would like to try some tight settings on the secondaries..So far I have TRFC down to 300 from 535,and TREFI was on Auto at 11400 x3 and now at 34200..Are there any other secondary ones I should focus on to tighten up..


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> I have my GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR tightened to 14-14-14-34 T1 and would like to try some tight settings on the secondaries..So far I have TRFC down to 300 from 535,and TREFI was on Auto at 11400 x3 and now at 34200..Are there any other secondary ones I should focus on to tighten up..


tRTP, RRD, FAW, tCWL for starters.


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.4 --- 2x8GB GSkill 4400c19 @ 3866c16 vdimm 1.375V, SA 1.2, VCCIO 1.17 --- HCi 500%


a base to work from . Delidded the cpu last night, sealer dried over the day.. installed, temps now in the low 60s running RB2.54RC2 at 5.3 with 1.344V LLC 5 (load is 1.328V). Cache is still stock.


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.4 --- 2x8GB GSkill 4400c19 @ 3866c16 vdimm 1.375V, SA 1.2, VCCIO 1.17 --- HCi 500%
> 
> 
> a base to work from . Delidded the cpu last night, sealer dried over the day.. installed, temps now in the low 60s running RB2.54RC2 at 5.3 with 1.344V LLC 5 (load is 1.328V). Cache is still stock.


There is 3 people that have 8700k Retal on our norwegian forum diskusjon.no. Looks like you have to by ES to get 8700k


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> There is 3 people that have 8700k Retal on our norwegian forum diskusjon.no. Looks like you have to by ES to get 8700k


A number of folks have them here. Buy? This sample was a gift.








http://www.overclock.net/t/1640168/asus-z370-motherboard-series-official-support-thread/0_20

it must be those taxes you-all pay.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Hey .. I have a kit of g.skill 3200 C15...24/7 runs at eyther 3600 C15 1t or 3733 C16 1t. 2x16gb.. and benching up to 3866 C12
> 
> After telling people half of year that I'm rocking the 3600 C16 2x16 Kit I was just looking at my invoices and noticed I have the 3200 C15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V wise for 24/7... try and stay under 1.47 Dram and 1.235 SA & IO
> 
> I don't have terrible experience in Dram OC but I can tell you this kits are funny... mine doesn't want to do C14 at all...at any freq.
> And a lot of times even when you are one V bin under they just fail to boot and trow code 55 on mb... takes lots of patience to train them that's for sure.
> 
> What I suggest is set XMP for one of your MB saved Dram profiles (3600 2x8gb kit profile ....or 3866 2.4gb kit profile)....apply and reset...let it boot in OS to train everything properly.
> Than restart...go in Bios....change Primaries... freq and V to the ones desired by you and start from there.


pretty similar build you have , my rig is now setup again full watercooled, I think id want to do 1.4v or see what I can do at 1.4v for 24/7 as I need stability the most

your set might of been an older revision? as I noticed in the new revisions they managed to get better timings with DDR4

Im not too clued up on SA & IO guess I need to do some reading


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> I have my GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR tightened to 14-14-14-34 T1 and would like to try some tight settings on the secondaries..So far I have TRFC down to 300 from 535,and TREFI was on Auto at 11400 x3 and now at 34200..Are there any other secondary ones I should focus on to tighten up..


I would take a look through the thread at Jmpboy, Praz, and Silent Scone posts, they have a lot of 2X8GB and 4X8GB sticks I believe.

You will also want to download a few software packages for testing. I can give you the rundown of what I do, but its a ton of testing lol. You may or may not want to do it all, but its what has been working for me.

As I am writing this it is growing and growing. Maybe I can turn it into its own thread after all the holes have been poked and filled into it. I think its a good process, might take a long time but I think if you follow it and pass everything you should be stable for 24/7. So please everyone point out where its wrong and let me know what I can do to make it right!

A. AIDA64. It has a free trial for like 30 days I think. I just bought it, it was only like 35 bucks.
B. HWBOT x265.
C. HWBOT RealBench.
D. Intel XTU
E. HCI Memtest. I would just buy the pro version, its 5 bucks. The guy that wrote it is pretty cool and will respond to questions!
F. ASRock's Timing Configurator software for your chipset.
G. I have an Asus board but depending on what you have try and find a program where you can adjust your voltages. For Asus X99 its TurboV Core.
H. A screenshot program, I use AndySnap.
I. A spreadsheet program, I use Excel. You do not have to this part if you dont want, I suggest that you do though so you dont keep running the same values over by accident. It will also show you trends and issues you might not have seen without having all the test data.
J. HWiNFO. Install it and have the sensors running when windows starts.
K. BASH for Windows, Ill try and find the post again and link it here.
L. Stressapptest in BASH, again its somewhere in this thread I just have to find it again and link it here.
M. Memtest86. I do this test first using stock settings to make sure the RAM sticks are good.
N. CPU-Z

So if you have overclocked your CPU and you have done your due diligence then skip 2 to 5 below, if you havent and you skip them, just dont say I didnt warn ya hehe.

1. Create a spreadsheet, I would suggest something like this for the rows (I set it up the same order as my BIOS); CPU Clock, BCLK, Cache Clock, DRAM Clock, Core V, Cache V, VCCSA, VCCIN, VCCIN CPU, LLC, XTU Score, XTU Temp, XTU Mem Temp, x265 x4 4K, x265 Temp, x265 Mem Temp, RealBench, RealBench Temp, RealBench Mem Temp, Gsat, Gsat Temp, Gsat Mem Temp, HCI Fail/Pass %, HCI Temp, HCI Mem Temp. Then each column as a run with those settings. If you fail a test, move over 1 column and put your new values you are testing in that column. Do this each time you change something. I have about 86 columns of data in my spreadsheet hehe. For the temp I picked max cpu case, but you can use whatever you want really, as long as its the same one for each test. I would only use average if you were able to look at it right after the test ended, which is hard to do for those overnight tests hehe. For memory I just track the hottest sticks max temp, its always the same stick for me. Its usually 3 deg C hotter then the coldest one.

Note: I also usually take a screenshot of the finished test with the memory timing, aida mem/cache test, HWiNFO window after each test, I can then do a bunch of tests then write the data in the spreadsheet later if I want. I take one big screenshot, then I scroll through all the HWiNFO pages and screenshot them. Lots of pics I know, but who cares, you can delete them later!

2. Run XTU benchmark, if your core or cache is off you will either fail or get a BSOD. Adjust Core and/or Cache voltage until it gives you a score and mark the data down in your spreadsheet and take screenshots.

3. Run HWBOT x265 using (saw this explanation in a Jmpboy post, which i seem to have lost, its in this thread somewhere, works great! Thanks Jmpboy); Preset: 4k, Overkill mode: 4x, priority: mine is most happy with Very High, but try a few until you find one your system likes. Your goal is to finish the test with an overkill score after the * of >=.998. If you run it and it crashes your system increase vcore / cache voltage. If one of the parts stops working during the test or gets to the end and says your times were too far apart increase your VCCIN. Once you start getting a score you will see your value after the * in the score. The increase I needed to get from .994 to .999 was 0.005 v (5 mV) so for me at least its pretty touchy. Just increase slowly. Once you pass mark down the values in the spreadsheet, take screenshots.

4. Run AIDA64 System Stability Test, Stress Cache for at least 2 hours. If it crashes increase your Cache Voltage a little bit. Maybe Core as well, but I think mostly Cache.

5. Run RealBench, I do the 8 hour test using the amount of RAM I have installed. If it fails this test you might need to increase your core, cache,and possible RAM voltage (if your using XMP). Take screenshots, mark the temps in the spreadsheet.

6. Now that you have made sure your CPU overclock is rock solid and shouldnt mess up your memory tests, its time for Memory testing! For the first round I would do all of these tests with the memory settings at bios stock or maybe XMP, Its better to do it at least once at stock so you can see how much you have improved the memory. Also you can discover if you have a bad memory stick at the very beginning, and not after you have put 100 hours of testing in! I just ran Memtest86 with stock settings and made sure my sticks were good to begin with. You were working on an anti-static mat and wearing a ground strap when you installed them right??? I know I was!
Caution: If you use XMP make sure to check your VCCSA and VCCIO, even Cache voltage if you are using Auto. For my board the X99-Deluxe ii, it was driving these values into the 1.3 to 1.4 range. Way too high! Lucky for me though my cpu survived and I finally noticed the values and turned them way down. Currently my VCCSA on manual is set at .9625v, VCCIO at 1.068725v and Cache @ 3600 MHz at 1.150v. Needless to say I do not use Auto on many voltage settings hehe.

7. Each time I run a memory test I always open up these items prior to starting the test, that way I always have the same load on the system prior to any testing, at least thats how I think it should be. I also do all my testing in my normal windows environment with everything on that will be on when I am working, anti virus, backup software, dropbox, etc... (I do however make sure to turn the scheduled scans/upload/etc off during the time I am testing). Some might not agree with this, but I need the memory to work correctly with all this crap on, so I leave it on. I have never had one of these programs cause an issue, so it mush be working! The only thing I have read was to make sure Afterburner is closed when running RealBench. I never tried with it on, so I dont know if its really a thing or not, but if you have it on, close it before RealBench.
I open up TurboV Core, Timing Configurator, 3 CPU-Z windows (Tabs: CPU, Memory, and Mainboard) and Run AIDA64 -> Tools -> Cache and Memory Benchmark, this is mostly a hold out to submitting benchmarks to HWBOT but I found that it shows all the information I care about in case I forget to write something down, at least I have it in a screenshot, unless I forgot that too lol. I always put them in the same places, I have just gotten used to doing it, so its pretty quick. Screen shot, no need for temp for this setup. Example below.



8. Run Stressapptest in BASH (Thanks Jmpboy, Silent Scone) using the following without the quotes and numbers to follow "stressapptest -W -M XXXXX -s SSSS --pause_delay PPPP"
XXXXX = Your total Physical Memory * 0.91, i.e. for me its around 65441 (from AIDA64) *.91= 59551
SSSS = number of hours in seconds, 1 hour = 3600 seconds, 2h = 7200, 3h = 10800 s, 4h = 14400 s, etc...
PPPP = the next higher hour value then SSSS, or anything higher then SSSS. If you use 3600 for SSSS then use 7200 for PPPP, etc...
So my example would be "stressapptest -W -M 59551 -s 10800 --pause_delay 14400"

I usually run this test for 3 hours, but you can do anything over and including an hour and "should" be ok. This stock or XMP run should pass so I will move on like it did.

9. The best yet slowest memory test is next, HCI Memtest or Pro for $5. Now I have seen many different ways to set this up, and I believe I settled on the best for >32GB. A lot of people say to run 90% of your total memory in as many HCI instances as you have cores (including hyper-threads). The problem is that the program takes the memory size you select and makes its only usable by that HCI instance. Windows doesnt really like this, so it places a limit on the amount of memory a program can make private. It can be from 2400 MB to 3300 MB depending on what else you have running (at least on my system). This is usually ok for most people, but me being a dumba$$. I decided to get 64GB of RAM and a 6 core chip (12 with ht). So the most I can test at one time using 12 HCI instances is 39.6 GB. Now I can open up another 6 HCI instances and lets those run, the problem is that since I am over the core count, these 6 will need to share with the other 12 running, which makes a slow job even that much slower. So I thought about this for a while. I even emailed the programmer and asked him a few questions about how to run 90% of my memory, and he said the same thing. You have to open more instances and it will take longer. Now this is where I had the epiphany. I already know my ram sticks are ok, I ran Memtest86 on the entire set. This test isnt really to test the memory, its to test the system at the timing levels and voltages. I dont need to test 90% of my RAM, I just need to load it with enough to stress the system. So now I always run 2500 MB in each instance, with a total of 12 instances. It works like a charm, if something is off, HCI lets me know. Usually its in 10 mins or less, but when your getting close to stable it could be in the 10 hour range, but it always lets me know if something is wrong hehe. I use the "golden standard" that I have seen listed many times of 1000%, this means that each instance has run through its 2500MB of memory 10 times. Thats 300000 GB of writes and reads. If you compare it to a 32GB system. 32768 * 0.9 = 29491, 29491*10 = 294910, so its just about even. Making it, at least in my book, good enough. Take screenshots, mark it down in your spreadsheet as your baseline.
Note: You may ask, "You ran three hours of Gsat, why the f would you run HCI?". My answer to that is, I have had configurations that have passed 3 hours of Gsat and then failed in 10 mins on HCI on several occasions. HCI, to me, is the ultimate PITA and yet the best test for memory configuration testing. Its slow, yes no doubt, but it catches everything! Cache, VCCSA, VCCIO, and to a lesser extent Core and DRAM voltage problems have been found and fixed.

10. Ok great you have a baseline, now what. Well now is where the "fun" begins. In the BIOS make the following changes.
A. Boot Menu, turn FastBoot on.
B. Main Tweaking Menu: Turn DRAM SVID Support Off, Set your Memory Frequency, Cache, VCCSA, VCCIO, and DRAM voltages manually (type them in). If you have TPU set it to Keep Current Settings
C. Memory Menu: Type all Primary, Secondary setting in. Turn Enhanced Memory Training On. Turn Attempt FastBoot off (its a different thing so dont worry, think that is a Jmpboy quote hehe, TY!). Attempt Fast Cold Boot Off. I kept MemTest and DRAM Training on Auto, but I guess you could enable them both. I believe that if you have several boots in a row through it may not need to do these, so maybe Auto is better.
D. Wherever your DRAM Current Capability is you should bump it up to what you feel comfortable with, I use 120%. DRAM Power Phase Control to Optimized or Extreme. CPU Power Duty Control to Extreme, and CPU Integrated VR Efficiency Management to High Performance.

11. Now you can do one of two things here, the first is to look through the thread and find someone who has memory similar to you and write all the timings down (or use your smartphone to take a picture) then go into your BIOS and plug the frequency and primary timings in. Then increase your RAM voltage to the highest level you are comfortable with and save / restart and see if it boots. If it boots and you make it to windows great! you can skip down to #13 below. If not then you can try to increase your RAM voltage a little more, or you can try to increase your Core and Cache voltages to see if that will stabilize it enough to get past POST. If even that fails then you can try changing the command rate back to 2, because most everyone tries to make the 1 work at first hehe.

12. The second way is to open up everything from step 7. Go to the program where you can increase the RAM voltage and bump it up to something you feel ok with. 1.35 to 1.40v and hit apply. If you didnt crash sweet! Next go into Timing Configurator and turn the first timing or first 3 down by 1, or 2 and hit apply. If you didnt crash sweet again! If you did crash with either of these then you can try the BIOS way of doing the same thing. Change 1, 2, or 3 of the primary timing down by 1 and change the DRAM voltage to something your ok with or bump it up to 1.25 or 1.3. Save the BIOS, reset and see if you can get into windows. Or do this first, whichever just get to your first set of changes. Or start with your CR, change it from 2 to 1 and try to boot to windows.
Ok you changed something and it didnt crash the computer! Sweet, oh that reminds me!

Caution: Changing memory settings and testing them in windows can cause windows to crash in such a way that you will have to rebuild the drive. Now, knock on wood, this didnt happen to me but I have seen it posted here and there, of course it was after I had been changing things and testing for a month lol. So bottom line is make an image of your drive, and keep it on another drive. If you have one of these crashes at least you can rebuild everything "quickly"ish.

Ok back to, you changed something and it didnt crash! Sweet, now you can go crazy and do all the tests again (which i dont recommend) or you can just run the AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark again, take a screenshot, then try to change something again. If you crash, increase the RAM voltage till you get to a point you will not cross, if it doesnt crash. Run the Benchmark again and move on to another change.
Note: For me using 4X16GB Samsung B die, it was 1.40 v. Some people go higher, but for my motherboard the max memory frequency I could go was 3333, and thats only with changing the BCLK to something other then 100. Which I wont do because anything over 101 BCLK cause my M.2 drive to run at Gen2 speed. Another long story that took hours and hours of testing, searching on the internet, etc... to figure out. I hit 3200 MHz memory right out of the gate at 1.35v. So I set my personal limit at 1.40 for 24/7 use.

Now at some point, you are going to hit a wall that you cannot cross no matter what voltages you set your memory too. For my memory it was 3200 MHz CL13-14-13-29-1 (thanks Jmpboy again, at least I think thats who I copied!). Also yes, I think everyone is aware that the 29 should be 13+14+13=40, but 29 works and it gives the best values in the AIDA64 benchmark. One theory, and forgive me I cant remember whos it was, maybe Praz or Silent Scone or someone somewhere on this forum noted that while physically impossible the BIOS code must change the 29 to a 40 in such a way that it functions better then just setting it to 40. I dont know, I am no memory expert, but maybe 29 turns into 39.899 and thats just a little bonus you get for using a value that makes the BIOS correct it. Maybe 30 and 28 makes the BIOS correct it to 40.010 again I have no idea. It just works better, even though its not supposed to work at all. Whatever values you are using, put them in the BIOS and load windows.

13. Ok your primary settings will POST and you can get into Windows! Now what? Go through all the crazy tests again? Nah, start working on your secondary timings. You can do the same here are you did above, change one or 2 or 8 of them and hit apply and if it didnt crash run AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark and take a screenshot. You might ask yourself, why am I taking all these screenshots? Well the answer is simple, if you want to compare a tWR change of 1 or 3 with a tRFC change of 2 how and what would you look at? Well all the items in the benchmark will tell you if its better or worse. This change make my write faster but copy slower, this one kills the latency! This one is missing a value (so it most likely will not POST). Once you have enough of these you can scroll through them all and for each test find the max value. Then you take that ideal value for each test and work on getting something that is as close to all the maxes as you can get and still POST. Or you can again copy them from someone else and work on them in the BIOS until you can get past POST and into windows.
Now there are some minimums you should be aware of: If you have RAS to RAS delay tRRD and tRRD_L, the one with the _L needs to be at least 1 higher then the main one. The closest I could get was 2 above tRRD. You want to get your tRFC as close as you can but not below 270 or so. I am not sure if the 270 is the limit or just the best value, I cant seem to find where I saw that either, I just wrote it in my notes. The best I could get was 300, but it worked for me a little better at 303. Again thats just something you have to plug in and run the AIDA64 benchmark and compare. The minimum tRTP is 4, and tFAW should be 4X your tRTP, so its min is 16. tREFI can be as high as you can get it (up to ~65000), I thought I saw a formula somewhere, but I have to look to see if I can find it. I just selected 18480, no reason, and it seemed to work so I kept it.

14. Now you have your Primary and Secondary timings set in the BIOS and you can POST and go into Windows every time! The hard part is done!!! Sorry nope hehe it just started. Now you have to work with all the voltages and timing values over again to pass through all the tests again. Even those in 2 through 4. WHAT!!! My CPU OC is SOLID!!! Sorry changing your memory Freq and Timing can make your CPU and Cache OC unstable again... FacePalm, ouch... So start with #2, 3, 4, and 5 and hopefully you can get them all to pass without much trouble, for me, no such luck. And, psst, *whispers* "This isnt the only time this will happen, you want to use adaptive and offsets right, to save your CPU from getting hammered all the time with the full voltage, or wait till you OC your Video Card". Yes I learned that lesson too. Both of these changes will cause your entire OC to become unstable... Sorry, it "might" cause this to happen. For me both of them happened lol... Make sure to log everything in screenshots and your spreadsheet.

15. Ok, sweet, you only needed to increase your CPU voltage by 0.005v, Cache by 0.003v, and RAM by 0.20 (true story, right after I went through all the tests again when I switched from manual to adaptive/offset voltages. I finally OC'ed my video card. That part was pretty easy, but figuring out my CPU/Cache/and RAM all needed to be increased wasnt). Your ready to do the memory specific testing. Again start with Gsat, if it crashes and it gives you a WHEA then increase your Core or Cache yet again, a IRQ then bump up your RAM by 0.1 or 0.2. If you see an error while its running then ctrl-c to stop the test and boot to the bios and start playing with the VCCSA and VCCIO. Again check in the thread to see what other people are using with similar RAM, go up or down a few presses of the + or - key. test again. After each test screenshots and update the spreadsheet! Once you get past Gsat, you know what time it is...

16. HCI, the final and most painful test. Hey you could stop with Gsat. You just play video games, it should work. You do any compiling or work with large (200MB) solid model files, like me, then you want to make sure its not going to fail and corrupt your model enough that you have to redo it. F-that, Ill suffer now so I dont later lol...

Long Side story:
Ok for me personally it took a while before I started using BASH and Gsat, so I did all memory testing using HCI. My personal hell was finding the correct VCCSA, I read the guides, 1.15 VCCSA, 1.16 VCCIO. Didnt work. So I tested every step that my MB will do up to the suggest Max of them both for 24/7 of 1.20v. I even went above that to 1.25v. Each step of VCCSA is 0.001v, for VCCIO its a little better at 0.010. So it takes 100 VCCSA and 9 VCCIO changes to cover the range. Ok I lied, I didnt do every single step, but I would step it up 2 to 3 and ended up doing at least 40 to 50 tests. Not a single one got to 1000. A few ran to 600, 800, but never 1000%.
Ok well, what now. So I downloaded the Intel Spec for my CPU and looked for the lowest level the VCCSA would work at. Ok, open the PDF, search VCCSA, nothing... Humm ok lets try System Agent Ok well 1, thats better then 0 lets look at it...



Huhh? ***? What am I changing? What is this setting doing? I am still not sure but am guessing that the BIOS is telling the CPU vreg what to set the VCCSA and VCCIO outputs too. I was going to post this part in the Broadwell-e thread, and will someday.

I think at that point I just googled "what is the lowest VCCSA can be set at" and found it was something like .85 or so volts. So I tried VCCSA and VCCIO and upped it until it would get past POST and into windows and then started my slow walk up the ladder. My CPU is a fickle one, the timing I was using at that time (which i think was 14-15-14-32-1) only would work with a VCCSA of .9625 or .9875, and a VCCIO range of 1.05ish to 1.068725, yeah I know the manual settings go in strange .010 steps lol. So I was finally able to pass 1000% I think I got to 1600 before I got sick of watching it. Ok story over.

So hopefully you have found your VCCSA and VCCIO using Gsat and you sail through 1000% on HCI. If you fail, and you cant seem to get anything to pass, I would suggest you start first with running the tests in #2, 3, 4 and 5. Core and/or Cache and/or DRAM and/or all of them might need a bump along with or without a small change in VCCSA/VCCIO.

You might also want to open the AIDA64 System Stability Test, dont start any tests just open it and set the top tab to current and increase the scale to around 80 or so. Then start your HCI test. If you see something like the picture below.



Then start looking at your BIOS settings and look for something called CPU Power Duty Control and if its on T_Probe, change it to Extreme, and CPU Integrated VR Efficiency Management and if its on Auto change it to High Performance. One of these causes the current and/or useage variation. The CPU should stay at 100% all the time. If its moving around then a BIOS setting is set incorrect. I should add this to the step above! Ok added it, or it could be some other setting that isnt labeled with anything the remotely sounds like it would effect the CPU. Just hunt around until the useage and current dips go away hehe.

17. You made it past 1000%!!! Your memory is tight, its latency and read/write/copy values are sweet! I am going to pretend that this is the first run through. Ok now go from fully manual to adaptive/offset for your CPU OC, and do the above over again!!! Ok thats done and you passed 1000% again!!! Lets OC the Video Card!!! And then do everything over again, again! I dont think you can really get around this, other then start by using adaptive/offset from the start, then you will only have to do it again after your video card OC. Or perhaps its best to OC your CPU and GPU prior to Memory. I dont know, it can lead you down paths where you question too many settings in the BIOS and Vid Card. I did it Manual CPU, Memory, Adaptive CPU (which should of been easier because I already knew the values I needed, what made it hard for me was my MB refuses to show in the BIOS or by using monitoring software what the Cache and VCCSA voltage are before or after the offset. I have a chain with the Asus tech support with about 10 your question has been sent to our engineering department and you will have an answer in 24/48 hours from 2 weeks ago. I dont think I am getting an answer, but I did a lot of testing and found my offsets 0.085 VCCSA and 0.187v Cache...), then Video OC, and I finally passed 1000% again, for hopefully the last time.

Ok throw spears, tell me im FoS, but try to point out whats wrong and give an example of what would be better! I will then credit you and put it in!!! Maybe this isnt the right place, maybe I should just start a new thread and point to it with this post. Let me know, I can do that too! Seems like we can edit posts for pretty much ever, or at least a few weeks hehe.


----------



## Jpmboy

lol, some of ^^^ could be useful in the OP.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


Hey... so when will you be available for getting spammed with @mention as I am trying to improve my ram OC


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Hey... so when will you be available for getting spammed with @mention as I am trying to improve my ram OC


^^

anytime bro.


----------



## LunaP

Woah, just got linked to this thread, is there anyone here running a 7980 w/ 128gb ram (g skill)? preferably 3200/3600 speeds on default and or tweaked timing settings? Curious to hear if there were issues or not, so far 2 people w/ 3200 on the rampage thread seem to be running fine.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Woah, just got linked to this thread, is there anyone here running a 7980 w/ 128gb ram (g skill)? preferably 3200/3600 speeds on default and or tweaked timing settings? Curious to hear if there were issues or not, so far 2 people w/ 3200 on the rampage thread seem to be running fine.


not me.


----------



## ogider

Jpmboy
And how are the first results memory OC on Coffee/Apex. A noticeable improvement over the previous gen? Kaby/Apex


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Jpmboy
> And how are the first results memory OC on Coffee/Apex. A noticeable improvement over the previous gen? Kaby/Apex


Still working on it... gotta free up some time.








but seems as good by first impressions.

ahh.. Sunday mornings:
4400c19 XMP with the 2x8GB G.skill kit but VSA









4000c16

neither passes HCi as is.

I'm good with 3866c16


I'm sure the gear can do much better. booting 4400 xmp is a good sign.


----------



## Jpmboy

okay.. settled down voltages and best timings i could do so far. Channel A is a bit different from the other 3...

jpmboy -- ASUS R6A --- [email protected] 45([email protected])-- cache [email protected] --- 4x8GB GS 3600c15 @ 4000c16-17-16-38-1T. BASH GSAT 1h. vdimm 1.40V, vsa 0.800, vccio 1.00


*while running for voltages:*


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> okay.. settled down voltages and best timings i could do so far. Channel A is a bit different from the other 3...
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected] 45([email protected])-- cache [email protected] --- 4x8GB GS 3600c15 @ 4000c16-17-16-38-1T. BASH GSAT 1h. vdimm 1.40V, vsa 0.800, vccio 1.00
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *while running for voltages:*


Looks great I am going to start with memory OC tonight. 24/7 so for 44 (avx3 @ 41) 1.1250v. Will work on lowering once I OC cashe. Temps below 80c in real bench.


----------



## ogider

Jpmboy
It seems asrock in the z370 came close to the results of OC memory to the top of asus mainboards.


Did 500% memtest with this.

But max I could do 4300MHz. Hard to tell why.
Maybe for my memory is too mutch.
Or because I'm still using iGPU. that can be factor as well.

I thought maybe apex would do something in style 4400 cl17 18 18 cr2 with voltage up to 1.5v.
I guess that is still possible


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Looks great I am going to start with memory OC tonight. 24/7 so for 44 (avx3 @ 41) 1.1250v. Will work on lowering once I OC cashe. Temps below 80c in real bench.


These overclocks really make me more keen on my 4.8 7900X


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> These overclocks really make me more keen on my 4.8 7900X


Don't get to excited this is using a 360 AIO ambient 25c. Once on the chiller it will be different.


----------



## Rezal

Getting there.
1.248 V SA
1.200 V IO
1.416 V DRAM


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Jpmboy
> It seems asrock in the z370 came close to the results of OC memory to the top of asus mainboards.
> 
> 
> Did 500% memtest with this.
> 
> But max I could do 4300MHz. Hard to tell why.
> Maybe for my memory is too mutch.
> Or because I'm still using iGPU. that can be factor as well.
> 
> I thought maybe apex would do something in style 4400 cl17 18 18 cr2 with voltage up to 1.5v.
> I guess that is still possible




no stability testing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> These overclocks really make me more keen on my 4.8 7900X


lol - he can always switch off 8 cores.


----------



## ogider

Jpmboy








This one for 24/7 and I can wait for ddr5


----------



## CptSpig

I got to play with the memory OC tonight. CPU 44 1.125v Cashe 30000 1.1650v 4000MHz VDIMM 1.40v 16-16-16-36 1T SA 0.8000v and VCCIO 1.0000v Any thoughts?


----------



## Silent Scone

Looks ok. Perhaps try lowering TFAW and write latency some more. If straight 16s is stable those are fairly good sticks.


----------



## LunaP

Ordered my kit
128gb G.Skill Trident RGB
DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800)
Timing 17-19-19-39
CAS Latency 17

Definitely gonna look for assistance here w/ pushing the most I can out of them!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Looks ok. Perhaps try lowering TFAW and write latency some more. If straight 16s is stable those are fairly good sticks.


I agree... I had to run 16-17-16 to get both HCi and GSAT stable at 4000 with the 7980XE. (mixed 3600c15 kits).


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Looks ok. Perhaps try lowering TFAW and write latency some more. If straight 16s is stable those are fairly good sticks.


Thanks, yes very stable. I will try tonight.







This is my 24/7 OC I will be lowering the core and cashe voltages tonight and running the final stress test. Then it will be time to put on the chiller and see what this machine can do......


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I agree... I had to run 16-17-16 to get both HCi and GSAT stable at 4000 with the 7980XE. (mixed 3600c15 kits).


I will run HCI 1000% tonight. So far happy with this kit. This board is awesome so easy to overclock. When trying cas 15 it would not post so I hit safe bios boot and boom went right in and did not loose any settings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> I will run HCI 1000% tonight. So far happy with this kit. This board is awesome so easy to overclock. When trying cas 15 it would not post so I hit safe bios boot and boom went right in and did not loose any settings.


can't see in your picture... but what RTL are you getting for chA D0?


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> can't see in your picture... but what RTL are you getting for chA D0?


All RLT's are 59/11 IO's 8/0.


----------



## Asus11

hey guys I need some advice

im going to contribute to the Hwbot competition.. I need my ram to be really fast .. ultimately as close to 4000mhz cl12 or better

what is the max volts I can use? my ram is watercooled but don't think that means much

so far ive tried 1.5v for 3733 cl15 1t

bare in mind these sticks are one week old I don't feel like killing them









the benchmark is INTEL XTU

http://oc-esports.io/#!/round/rogocs17_teamedition2/3960/xtu_5ghz

thanks


----------



## done12many2

Edited

done12many2 --- Asus R6A --- 7900X @ 4.9 GHz (4 cores or less boosting to 5 GHz) --- Cache @ 3100 @ 0.175 offset (1.1v DMM) --- G.Skill 3200c14 (4x8 GB) @ 4000 (c16-18-16-36-1T) / 1.40V --- VSA 0.8v --- VCCIO 0.925v --- HCI 1500%

done12many2 --- Asus R6A --- 7900X @ 4.9 GHz (4 cores or less boosting to 5 GHz) --- Cache @ 3100 @ 0.175 offset (1.1v DMM) --- G.Skill 3200c14 (4x8 GB) @ 4000 (c16-18-17-36-1T) / 1.40V --- VSA 0.8v --- VCCIO 0.925v --- HCI 1300%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> hey guys I need some advice
> 
> im going to contribute to the Hwbot competition.. I need my ram to be really fast .. ultimately as close to 4000mhz cl12 or better
> 
> what is the max volts I can use? my ram is watercooled but don't think that means much
> 
> so far ive tried 1.5v for 3733 cl15 1t
> 
> bare in mind these sticks are one week old I don't feel like killing them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the benchmark is INTEL XTU
> 
> http://oc-esports.io/#!/round/rogocs17_teamedition2/3960/xtu_5ghz
> thanks


are you talking about "red mist" in your sig?
on the impact and sammy b-die, you can run 1.9-2V for ambient benching. try loading one of the presets (3866c12 for example) set vccio to 1.275 and VSa to 1.35V or higher - stay below 1.4V VSA. Build from the 3866c12 preset. AND YOU MUST limit windows to 4096MB of ram (10 or 7) unless you are running 32bit windows. None of thes high and tight settings will boot windows 64bit unless you do... absent some magic.








run> msconfig> boot>advanced options> set Max Mem to 4096, okay and restart with the 3866c12 preset.









ideally for XTU.. win8 32bit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> done12many2 --- Asus R6A --- 7900X @ 4.9 GHz (4 cores or less boosting to 5 GHz) --- Cache @ 3100 @ 0.175 offset (1.1v DMM) --- G.Skill 3200c14 (4x8 GB) @ 4000 (c16-18-17-36-1T) / 1.40V --- VSA 0.8v --- VCCIO 0.925v --- HCI 1300%


Nice!


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> are you talking about "red mist" in your sig?
> on the impact and sammy b-die, you can run 1.9-2V for ambient benching. try loading one of the presets (3866c12 for example) set vccio to 1.275 and VSa to 1.35V or higher - stay below 1.4V VSA. Build from the 3866c12 preset. AND YOU MUST limit windows to 4096MB of ram (10 or 7) unless you are running 32bit windows. None of thes high and tight settings will boot windows 64bit unless you do... absent some magic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> run> msconfig> boot>advanced options> set Max Mem to 4096, okay and restart with the 3866c12 preset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ideally for XTU.. win8 32bit
> Nice!


well thank you very much!









is there a preferred version on Intel XTU for win8 32bit? or should I expect same results with all versions

I will probably load win8 32bit on a ssd and bench from it.. im hoping for over 1700

1.9v on ram okay i'll take your word for it.. GULP









they should be fine temp wise etc they have upgraded pads / paste plus wcooled

yes they are samsung b die but they are 16gb sticks so maybe a little more difficult for better clocks ? or do you think they should perform the same?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> well thank you very much!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is there a preferred version on Intel XTU for win8 32bit? or should I expect same results with all versions
> 
> I will probably load win8 32bit on a ssd and bench from it.. im hoping for over 1700
> 
> 1.9v on ram okay i'll take your word for it.. GULP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they should be fine temp wise etc they have upgraded pads / paste plus wcooled
> 
> yes they are samsung b die but they are 16gb sticks so maybe a little more difficult for better clocks ? or do you think they should perform the same?


it's really not an issue for the ram sticks... dram voltage limitations are more on the CPU side of things. MOre critical to watch (and measure with a DMM) VSA, VCCIO etc when you really push things. Your sub for XTU is really needed by Team OCN.


----------



## ogider

Jpmboy

Is there a reason to pull the high clock at the expense of delay.
Over 4000 every next higher setting .. costs much more.

For example, 3200 cl13 then 3600cl14, 400Mhz jump.
Unfortunately ... another jump to 4000 is very hard to set at cl 15..with voltage below 1.5v.
And above..every 200MHz (in an optimistic version) requires a higher CL.
Not to mention CR2
It's just about using in games.

For example, 4000 cl 15-16 CR1 will not be more efficient than eg 4400 cl 18-18 CR2 ... in games. ?

Of course, I m aware that we are talking about minimal differences. But what does it look like from your experience?


----------



## sledgefinn

Hey guys, I am looking for some advice on DDR4 Ram Overclocking. I am a beginner in RAM overclocking, but would say I am intermediate in the CPU side of things. I just recently got my hands on a 8700k and decided to go with a Asus Maximus X Hero (WIFI) motherboard. My RAM is the F4-4000C19D-16GTZ by GSKILL its (8GB*2) 19-21-21-41. I have a X62 Kraken as my cooler, noctua fans for my X460 corsair case. Right now I am running at a 4.7 GHZ overclock with the XMP profile enabled. My CPU Voltage is at 1.264. My VCCIO is 1.00. My System agent is at 1.1. Maybe it would be easier if I can just post a picture with this post.

To cut to the chase, I am just wondering if "tightening" these timings would see any real world performance increase. I play CSGO, League, and Overwatch, and also use the computer for my studies and to just surf the web. Would appreciate any help and advice anyone can offer me! Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Jpmboy
> 
> Is there a reason to pull the high clock at the expense of delay.
> Over 4000 every next higher setting .. costs much more.
> 
> For example, 3200 cl13 then 3600cl14, 400Mhz jump.
> Unfortunately ... another jump to 4000 is very hard to set at cl 15..with voltage below 1.5v.
> And above..every 200MHz (in an optimistic version) requires a higher CL.
> Not to mention CR2
> It's just about using in games.
> 
> For example, 4000 cl 15-16 CR1 will not be more efficient than eg 4400 cl 18-18 CR2 ... in games. ?
> 
> Of course, I m aware that we are talking about minimal differences. But what does it look like from your experience?


it's hard to "notice" a difference in games once you get past 3200 IMO... and very game dependent - some benefit more from low latency, vs high bandwidth. and dual vs quad channel.. At that level, only synthetic tests and benchmarks show a difference, even between 3866 and 4000. with the same timings. Better off tuning secondary and later timings, than pushing freq and increasing CAS, IMO.
But you are asking two different questions. Efficiency vs speed. There are "calculators" out there to paper these differences.
anyway - GSAT testing 4266c17 right now on the Max X Apex. Bandwidth and latency are better than 3866c16.. so far.
Besides... who has a stable 4000c15 under 1.5V?


----------



## Jpmboy

New Entry:

jpmboy --- [email protected](avx -2) --- 2x8GB G. Skill 4400c19 kit @ 4266c17. 1.425V dimm, 1.225V vccio, 1.25V VSA (bios settings, bios 0703) 1h WGSAT

running:

Finished:



i think i can tighten a few things without adding any voltage... not sure I could get this on the previous bios.


----------



## ogider

Besides... who has a stable 4000c15 under 1.5V? wink.gif

Few pages ago I had 4000 c15-16-16 at 1.51V 500%HCI.Thats not under but....
For that , in bios I set 1.48 voltage.







No idea why..at last my mainboard increase voltage.
Above 1.45V extra +0.030V or even +0.040V ...closer to 1.39V extra +0.020V according to monitoring software.It's not a small amount.
Wonder if others users z370 Taichi noticed same behavior.

"beta is strong with this mainboard"


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Besides... who has a stable 4000c15 under 1.5V? wink.gif
> 
> Few pages ago I had 4000 c15-16-16 at 1.51V 500%HCI.Thats not under but....
> For that , in bios I set 1.48 voltage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No idea why..at last my mainboard increase voltage.
> Above 1.45V extra +0.030V or even +0.040V ...closer to 1.39V extra +0.020V according to monitoring software.It's not a small amount.
> Wonder if others users z370 Taichi noticed same behavior.
> 
> "beta is strong with this mainboard"


great, but you didn't post proof of the 500% HCi run.








Check the vsa/system agent voltage on that board. may be running a lot higher than you set - good way to kill a chip


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice!


Thank you sir!

I've managed to tighten up primaries to c16-18-16-36-1T, but I can't get tRCD anything below 18 without problems in long-term stability testing. My very limited experience so far has taught me to not sweat the primaries so much and keep on tweaking everything else.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> New Entry:
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected](avx -2) --- 2x8GB G. Skill 4400c19 kit @ 4266c17. 1.425V dimm, 1.225V vccio, 1.25V VSA (bios settings, bios 0703) 1h WGSAT
> 
> 
> 
> i think i can tighten a few things without adding any voltage... not sure I could get this on the previous bios.


Beast.

Imagine x299 with those kinds of latency.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> Thank you sir!
> 
> I've managed to tighten up primaries to c16-18-16-36-1T, but I can't get tRCD anything below 18 without problems in long-term stability testing. My very limited experience so far has taught me t*o not sweat the primaries so much and keep on tweaking everything else*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beast.
> Imagine x299 with those kinds of latency.


\
^^ true.
I was able to squeeze a bit more out of the 4266c17 config. Had to manually enter RTLs and IOLs
1.425 VDIMM in bios



I think you could do this on x299 (actually I know you could) but need to use a 7740X 4 core.


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> \
> ^^ true.
> I was able to squeeze a bit more out of the 4266c17 config. Had to manually enter RTLs and IOLs
> 1.425 VDIMM in bios
> 
> 
> 
> I think you could do this on x299 (actually I know you could) but need to use a 7740X 4 core.


With as much flack as Intel caught over Baby Lake, I'd love to see a 8740k option. Intel simply gave us more options. Never though so many would be offended by it.


----------



## ogider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> great, but you didn't post proof of the 500% HCi run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check the vsa/system agent voltage on that board. may be running a lot higher than you set - good way to kill a chip


I did









http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread/4960#post_26395066

Ps
Jpmboy
"I was able to squeeze a bit more out of the 4266c17 config. Had to manually enter RTLs and IOLs
1.425 VDIMM in bios"









Thats I need ..but prolly not with my sticks and mainboard.


----------



## LunaP

Is there a guide somewhere that breaks down 2ndary/tertiary and how to do the math on whats needed for what as well as how to go about tweaking vs just setting random numbers? That way I don't end up in a half an extra cycle situation?


----------



## NeoandGeo

I used the HWBot Skylake Memory Overclock guide located here as a starting point:

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148427

Be careful and don't try and use their voltages. Some stuff is for overly extreme overclocking. But most of the timings and descriptions are some of the easiest to understand and apply.


----------



## Koniakki

Hey guys. Always love reading these threads.

So, I sold my F4-3000C14Q-32GTZ B-die sticks along with my 6700k and backup mobo MSI Z170 M7.

Didn't bother taking them above 3733C16-16-16-34 2T btw. I know I know..









I'm now temporary using a 32GB kit(F4-3400C16Q-32GTZ) E-Die sticks..

So far managed XMP [email protected] 16-16-16-38-461 2T 500% [email protected] "stock"(4590MHz with BCLK)



I have my 5GHz OC dialed in now and will test for stability tonight or tomorrow.

Waiting for my F4-4266C19D-16GTZA to arrive and will play a bit more with these just for fun before then.


----------



## SHLEE

Hey guys
Is there any chance of making RAS to CAS delay to 16 with RTL and IOL adjusting?
I'm currently running i9 7900x with R6A (SA 1.1v VCCIO 0.8v DRAM 1.42v)


----------



## Koniakki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys
> Is there any chance of making RAS to CAS delay to 16 with RTL and IOL adjusting?
> I'm currently running i9 7900x with R6A (SA 1.1v VCCIO 0.8v DRAM 1.42v)


HOLY bandwidth!


----------



## Jpmboy

lol - tables in the OP have not kept up.


----------



## vmanuelgm

[email protected] mesh--DDR4 Quad 4000 CL17 17 17 38 1T--DDR Voltage 1.38v--SA 0.950v--VCCIO 1v 500% HCI Memtest Pro

Stability on going!!!


----------



## czin125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> [email protected] mesh--DDR4 Quad 4000 CL17 17 17 38 1T--DDR Voltage 1.38v--SA 0.950v--VCCIO 1v 500% HCI Memtest Pro
> 
> Stability on going!!!


What cooling is that? 92C max on one of the cores. Delidded already?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Custom LC in a silverstone tj11.

Yep, delidded!!!


----------



## SHLEE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] mesh--DDR4 Quad 4000 CL17 17 17 38 1T--DDR Voltage 1.38v--SA 0.950v--VCCIO 1v 500% HCI Memtest Pro
> 
> Stability on going!!!


Awesome!
I wish to upgrade to 7980xe


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> Awesome!
> I wish to upgrade to 7980xe


Thanks!!!

7980xe's are beasts, and hungry chips too!!!


----------



## Kimir

They will eat up your wallet, that's for sure.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lol - tables in the OP have not kept up.


I tend to do it periodically now. Some of us still work for a living


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I tend to do it periodically now. Some of us still work for a living


Take a rest, u deserve it!!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I tend to do it periodically now. Some of us still work for a living


ahh... that work thing.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> They will eat up your wallet, that's for sure.


and we thought $1600 for a 6950X was outrageous.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


Just went from:

3733 16-16-16-28-1t :



to
4286 2143 13-18-18-28-2t:


Primaries and tertiary entered manually..what do you think of them ? I think I will try and keep everything and just lower Freq till I can keep 1t.


----------



## LunaP

id*** is going on w/ RAM eveyr other day its jumping up another 100$ in price, I regret waiting to pull the trigger as it was out of stock and now its up another 300$, the kit I wanted to buy beginning of last week was 1900$ now its 2500$ This is getting ridiculous.


----------



## vmanuelgm

New stability test...



Increased the mesh to 3.1, with a bit more voltage (1.11v)

[email protected] 4000 CL17 17 17 38 1T--DDR4 Voltage 1.38v--SA 0.972v--VCCIO 1.025v--HCI Memtest Pro 1000%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Just went from:
> 
> 3733 16-16-16-28-1t :
> 
> 
> 
> to
> 4286 2143 13-18-18-28-2t:
> 
> 
> Primaries and tertiary entered manually..what do you think of them ? I think I will try and keep everything and just lower Freq till I can keep 1t.


wait.. wut? I'm confused. you had a good 3733c16 and have moved to 2143c13?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> wait.. wut? I'm confused. you had a good 3733c16 and have moved to 2143c13?


the 3733 profile was on the CPU i fried...
the new 3733 profile I had on the new CPU was finicky.. was giving me trouble with boots every now and than... problems with recovery of Chrome tabs...etc..so I run it at 3600 16-16-16-30-1t...
now...re-investing some time to get a better profile..

the 2143 freq is just so I can test and play with secondary...tertiary and than I will push the freq up...

This is up to where I got so far:



Some values are lower as the CPU is at stock, trying to push it up now and see if I can still get some clean boots.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> the 3733 profile was on the CPU i fried...
> the new 3733 profile I had on the new CPU was finicky.. was giving me trouble with boots every now and than... problems with recovery of Chrome tabs...etc..so I run it at 3600 16-16-16-30-1t...
> now...re-investing some time to get a better profile..
> 
> the 2143 freq is just so I can test and play with secondary...tertiary and than I will push the freq up...
> 
> This is up to where I got so far:
> 
> 
> 
> Some values are lower as the CPU is at stock, trying to push it up now and see if I can still get some clean boots.


With the new cpu were you getting code 55 or 49 on the Impact?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> With the new cpu were you getting code 55 or 49 on the Impact?


55 most of the times

EDIT: Also this CPU requires such a big bump in V-Core..as I go up with ram


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> 55 most of the times
> 
> EDIT: Also this CPU requires such a big bump in V-Core..as I go up with ram


55 - add VSA and VCCIO. at least 1.25 and 1.225 resp.


----------



## LunaP

Alright since I'm waiting for kits to be back in stock for another 1k more than yesterday....

Might as well reassess my options. I'm definitely going 128gb for RAM that much has been decided. I have 3 kits to choose from. Given the information here and opinions/data from everyone I'd like to ask what everyone thinks the best choice would be in this matter.

Below are the 3 kits I'm looking at and timings.

DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600)
Timing 14-14-14-34
https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232562

DDR4 3333 (PC4 26600)
Timing 16-18-18-38
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232568

DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800)
Timing 17-19-19-39
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232587&ignorebbr=1

My usage will be this.

OBS for streaming games ( I run in 4k but will probably output 1080->1440p) in the meantime till I get better w/ settings, I game at 4k but not heavy games like most here, I only play FFXIV ( MMO ) and if a better one comes along sure, time to time I'll play other steam games so its nice to have the power for it.
I will be doing heavy canvas' and animation (both 2d and 3d) mostly Maya for now and clip studio paint
Sony Vegas/Adobe premiere/AE for rendering
and VMware for testing and running sandboxes.

My rig is a 7980XE running between 4.5-4.7 for my 24/7 build I bought a binned from SL at 4.4 for 1.1v I'm in a dedicated loop w/ 4x 480 rads
GPUs are 2x 1080ti SLI + 1x 980ti for accessory monitors
Board is the R6E

Based on this my thoughts were split 2 ways since I"m going from IBE where I had a 2400 kit which I had to clock down to 2133 but at very tight timings luckily.

1) Is it better to get a higher binned and tweak timings / go backwards for higher
2) is it better to get higher speed/lower timings and push for the best?

In either of these scenarios which would be the best recommended as for what I"m doing?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 55 - add VSA and VCCIO. at least 1.25 and 1.225 resp.


Went up and down (up to 1.325) and still no luck...just a "strong" IMC on this one I guess..
Would pass HCI and/or Gsat than on a different run just fail...so was just a strange profile and I am trying to improve it...

Here is where I got so far:


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Alright since I'm waiting for kits to be back in stock for another 1k more than yesterday....
> 
> Might as well reassess my options. I'm definitely going 128gb for RAM that much has been decided. I have 3 kits to choose from. Given the information here and opinions/data from everyone I'd like to ask what everyone thinks the best choice would be in this matter.
> 
> Below are the 3 kits I'm looking at and timings.
> 
> DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600)
> Timing 14-14-14-34
> https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232562
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> DDR4 3333 (PC4 26600)
> Timing 16-18-18-38
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232568
> 
> DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800)
> Timing 17-19-19-39
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232587&ignorebbr=1
> 
> My usage will be this.
> 
> OBS for streaming games ( I run in 4k but will probably output 1080->1440p) in the meantime till I get better w/ settings, I game at 4k but not heavy games like most here, I only play FFXIV ( MMO ) and if a better one comes along sure, time to time I'll play other steam games so its nice to have the power for it.
> I will be doing heavy canvas' and animation (both 2d and 3d) mostly Maya for now and clip studio paint
> Sony Vegas/Adobe premiere/AE for rendering
> and VMware for testing and running sandboxes.
> 
> My rig is a 7980XE running between 4.5-4.7 for my 24/7 build I bought a binned from SL at 4.4 for 1.1v I'm in a dedicated loop w/ 4x 480 rads
> GPUs are 2x 1080ti SLI + 1x 980ti for accessory monitors
> Board is the R6E
> 
> Based on this my thoughts were split 2 ways since I"m going from IBE where I had a 2400 kit which I had to clock down to 2133 but at very tight timings luckily.
> 
> 1) Is it better to get a higher binned and tweak timings / go backwards for higher
> 2) is it better to get higher speed/lower timings and push for the best?
> 
> 
> 
> In either of these scenarios which would be the best recommended as for what I"m doing?


the 3200c14 kits have been very cooperative and overclock very well. save some cash and invest a little time to tune them up.
if 64GB is enough, these have been very good : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232289

(folding on 20 threads + 2TXps while browsing... starting to like the extra cores







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Went up and down (up to 1.325) and still no luck...just a "strong" IMC on this one I guess..
> Would pass HCI and/or Gsat than on a different run just fail...so was just a strange profile and I am trying to improve it...
> 
> Here is where I got so far:


Yeah, so see those RTLs? they're a bit off. try 53/54/6/6 and 54/55/7/7. Might work.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the 3200c14 kits have been very cooperative and overclock very well. save some cash and invest a little time to tune them up.
> if 64GB is enough, these have been very good : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232289
> 
> (folding on 20 threads + 2TXps while browsing... starting to like the extra cores
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


a. dittto on 3200C14 kits - they are great ICs to start with
b. ALL the cores is sweet isn't it? Had planned on moving over to the 7980xe from the 2696's but while I'm waiting for that machine to be complete, I'm noticing that I'm totally spoiled with a desktop littered with VMs and other resource vampires, but they are useful, they are there at my finger tips... I can just leave stuff open for days and weeks and not worry about it. My time critical stuff doesn't even flinch at the extra load those things present.


----------



## kongasdf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Went up and down (up to 1.325) and still no luck...just a "strong" IMC on this one I guess..
> Would pass HCI and/or Gsat than on a different run just fail...so was just a strange profile and I am trying to improve it...
> 
> Here is where I got so far:


Awesome, I never thought of DS memory can be 3733 C14!
U can refer to my settings

Ambient 22℃
DRAM 3200C14 RGB @3733 C14
SA 1.168v,
IO 1.168v,
Vdimm 1.488v,
DIMM Temp up to 40℃

Unfortunately, There is 1 error at 210%


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> the 3200c14 kits have been very cooperative and overclock very well. *save some cash* and invest a little time to tune them up.
> if 64GB is enough, these have been very good : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232289
> 
> (folding on 20 threads + 2TXps while browsing... starting to like the extra cores
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Yeah, so see those RTLs? they're a bit off. try 53/54/6/6 and 54/55/7/7. Might work.


Main problem is the 3200's are 500$ more than the 3600's lol they've been going up an average of 100$ a day. RAM market is getting ******ed as hell.

I'll take your guys word for it though and see what I can get out of them. given that noone believes in tightening the 3600 timings that obviously means they're more than likely bad or max binned, so I guess 3200 it is, just sucks they went from 1450$ -> 2500$ in 1 month.


----------



## SHLEE

Guys, is 1.48v with quad channel safe for Skylake-X's memory controller??
I set 1.48v at bios and monitored voltage was 1.486.
It's for daily use


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> Guys, is 1.48v with quad channel safe for Skylake-X's memory controller??
> I set 1.48v at bios and monitored voltage was 1.486.
> It's for daily use


4800mhz g.skill is 1.5v stock. 1.5v is within intel spec for ddr4


----------



## SHLEE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> 4800mhz g.skill is 1.5v stock. 1.5v is within intel spec for ddr4


Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Main problem is the 3200's are 500$ more than the 3600's lol they've been going up an average of 100$ a day. RAM market is getting ******ed as hell.
> 
> I'll take your guys word for it though and see what I can get out of them. given that noone believes in tightening the 3600 timings that obviously means they're more than likely bad or max binned, so I guess 3200 it is, just sucks they went from 1450$ -> 2500$ in 1 month.


I believe the 3600c16-18-18 SS kits are different ICs than the 3200c14-14-14 kits. Look for kits with "flat" primaries.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> a. dittto on 3200C14 kits - they are great ICs to start with
> b. ALL the cores is sweet isn't it? Had planned on moving over to the 7980xe from the 2696's but while I'm waiting for that machine to be complete, I'm noticing that I'm totally spoiled with a desktop littered with VMs and other resource vampires, but they are useful, they are there at my finger tips... I can just leave stuff open for days and weeks and not worry about it. My time critical stuff doesn't even flinch at the extra load those things present.


I know, right? "I be spoiled"









(lol - love your bullet-pointed posts, I'm waiting for an "if-then" conditional clause







)


----------



## NIK1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kongasdf*
> 
> Awesome, I never thought of DS memory can be 3733 C14!
> U can refer to my settings
> 
> Ambient 22℃
> DRAM 3200C14 RGB @3733 C14
> SA 1.168v,
> IO 1.168v,
> Vdimm 1.488v,
> DIMM Temp up to 40℃
> 
> Unfortunately, There is 1 error at 210%


Just wondering your running 3200C14 RGB @3733 C14 with Vdimm 1.488v.Is that you memory voltage.I have the same kit oc to 3600 14-14-14-34 1n with 1.425v.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kongasdf*
> 
> Awesome, I never thought of DS memory can be 3733 C14!
> U can refer to my settings
> 
> Ambient 22℃
> DRAM 3200C14 RGB @3733 C14
> SA 1.168v,
> IO 1.168v,
> Vdimm 1.488v,
> DIMM Temp up to 40℃
> 
> Unfortunately, There is 1 error at 210%


I have the 3600CL15 kit and I can bench 3733 CL14 as well, but I too get errors. I only tried straight 14s though.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> I have the 3600CL15 kit and I can bench 3733 CL14 as well, but I too get errors. I only tried straight 14s though.


Mine is this: F4-3200C15D-32GTZ CL 15-15-15-35 2 x 16GB
For bench I can do 4000+C13...that's what I'm aiming for 24/7... (3866 or 3733 with over 54 Read/Write/Copy and under 40 latency)

@Jpmboy will try later when I get home what you suggested... thank you









@kongasdf will have a look and see what the results are.


----------



## czin125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Mine is this: F4-3200C15D-32GTZ CL 15-15-15-35 2 x 16GB
> For bench I can do 4000+C13...that's what I'm aiming for 24/7... (3866 or 3733 with over 54 Read/Write/Copy and under 40 latency)
> 
> @Jpmboy will try later when I get home what you suggested... thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @kongasdf will have a look and see what the results are.


By any chance, could you replicate the 4500 16-16-16-535 CR2 and see how it performs in benches? gskill only used 1.50v with the 6700K.

Kind of curious how far away 4000C12 CR1 is


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> By any chance, could you replicate the 4500 16-16-16-535 CR2 and see how it performs in benches? gskill only used 1.50v with the 6700K.
> 
> Kind of curious how far away 4000C12 CR1 is


I don't think my MB and or RAM/CPU will aloe me to go over 4133...
From my MB manufacturer manual (Maximum VIII Impact):
Quote:


> 2 x DIMM, Max. 32GB, DDR4 4133(O.C.)/4000(O.C.)/3866(O.C.)/3800(O.C.)/3733(O.C.)/3600(O.C.)/3500(O.C.)/3466(O.C.)/3400(O.C.)/3333(O.C.)/3300(O.C.)/3200(O.C.)/3000(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666(O.C.)/2400(O.C.)/2133 MHz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory
> Dual Channel Memory Architecture
> Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)
> * Hyper DIMM support is subject to the physical characteristics of individual CPUs.
> * Refer to www.asus.com for the Memory QVL (Qualified Vendors Lists).


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> By any chance, could you replicate the 4500 16-16-16-535 CR2 and see how it performs in benches? gskill only used 1.50v with the 6700K.
> 
> Kind of curious how far away 4000C12 CR1 is


"Far, far... away!" -Shrek

That would be quite an amazing setup at anything short of extreme cooling and voltage I'd think....

4500/16 is amazing, but 4000/12 is another 18.5% beyond that in terms of what the memory has to do... then 1T on top?

To put that in perspective. That's equivalent to a 5333/16 setup.

and lol @ 535...


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I believe the 3600c16-18-18 SS kits are different ICs than the 3200c14-14-14 kits. Look for kits with "flat" primaries.


Those are the only 3 kits I can find in the 128gb range sadly.

I wasn't aware there was a 3600 16-18-18 kit though, the 3333 has those timings though.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it's really not an issue for the ram sticks... dram voltage limitations are more on the CPU side of things. MOre critical to watch (and measure with a DMM) VSA, VCCIO etc when you really push things. Your sub for XTU is really needed by Team OCN.


thanks for the advice.. my memory on the otherhand has different ideas, I still think its due to them being 16gb sticks

could not go above 3600 even with 2v







my best score was with CL12 even though I could reach CL11 or 10 sometimes
(thinking about it now.. it could be that im on a really old bios.. yes always the case ..thinking about the obvious when its too late haha )

its a decent end score.... we just need one more score to be second in stage 1.. hint hint 7740x


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Yeah, so see those RTLs? they're a bit off. try 53/54/6/6 and 54/55/7/7. Might work.


Managed to do 53/54/6/6 and Copy is certainly more stable and doesn't dip under 50.000 MB/s anymore in Aida bench.
Constantly getting 51.000 + and 39.2 or less latency.

Anything else I could push before I start to try and make it 24/7 (Pass Gsat...HCI etc..) ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> thanks for the advice.. my memory on the otherhand has different ideas, I still think its due to them being 16gb sticks
> 
> could not go above 3600 even with 2v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my best score was with CL12 even though I could reach CL11 or 10 sometimes
> (thinking about it now.. it could be that im on a really old bios.. yes always the case ..thinking about the obvious when its too late haha )
> 
> its a decent end score.... we just need one more score to be second in stage 1.. hint hint 7740x


erm... DS kits are not likely to do 4000c12 or even 3866c12. Oh well. If you are talking about the ROG comp - I can't sub to that stage, only stage 5.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Managed to do 53/54/6/6 and Copy is certainly more stable and doesn't dip under 50.000 MB/s anymore in Aida bench.
> Constantly getting 51.000 + and 39.2 or less latency.
> 
> Anything else I could push before I start to try and make it 24/7 (Pass Gsat...HCI etc..) ?


Since this is a 24/7 stability thread, try testing stability with what you have. You can use BASH GSAT to get a quick assessment.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


I really doubt I would get away with these timings / freq without doing some compromises.. but will try








You know me...either it works or sparks fly


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> erm... DS kits are not likely to do 4000c12 or even 3866c12. Oh well. If you are talking about the ROG comp - I can't sub to that stage, only stage 5.
> Since this is a 24/7 stability thread, try testing stability with what you have. You can use BASH GSAT to get a quick assessment.


DS? double sided? its a shame I sold my 16GB kit only last week.. would of been a treat









shame you can't enter we really need someone with a 7740x to submit a score of 1650 +


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> DS? double sided? its a shame I sold my 16GB kit only last week.. would of been a treat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shame you can't enter we really need someone with a 7740x to submit a score of 1650 +


wish i could, but rules is rules.









http://hwbot.org/submission/3672409_jpmboy_xtu_core_i7_7740x_1939_marks


----------



## SHLEE

I think this is enough with 16-17-16-34 1t tRFC 285








Seems pretty stable.

But what I really want is straight 16









AVG voltage : SA 1.18v / VCCIO 1.13v / DRAM 1.42v


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is enough with 16-17-16-34 1t tRFC 285
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems pretty stable.
> 
> But what I really want is straight 16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG voltage : SA 1.18v / VCCIO 1.13v / DRAM 1.42v


Nice result!!!


----------



## SHLEE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Nice result!!!


Thanks!
I'll try straight 16


----------



## czin125

Is that a board with only 4 ram slots in quad channel?


----------



## SHLEE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> Is that a board with only 4 ram slots in quad channel?



Yes


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> Thanks!
> I'll try straight 16


APEX will help for sure!!!


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.8 -- 2x8Gb GS 4400C19 @ 4266C17. 1.425VDimm, 1.25V Vccio, 1.275V VSA (in bios, actual appears higher) --- HCi Memtest 600%



IDK guys, like the 7740X. a 8700K is just incredibly fast and instantaneous. It's like you've barely lifted your finger from a mouse click and it's already done.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


Very nice !









On my ram Tweaking: I had to go back to 3733 15-16-28-1t (from 14-16-28-1t) as the later required over 1.575 to get over 1h of Gsat,
Strange thing is that I had RTL's 53-54-6-6 with 14-16...now with 15-16 I had to go up to 56-57-7-7 to be able to boot..

ATM 3733 15 16 28 1t SA 1.21 IO 1.18 DIMM 1.45 PCH 1.12 - Passed 2h Gsat - going towards 3h now than I will stop it.

Here is the full timing from Timing Configuration:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


Frequency    3733
CAS# Latency (tCL)      15
RAS# to CAS# Delay (tRCD)       16
Row Precharge Time (tRP)        16
RAS# Active Time (tRAS) 28
Command Rate (CR)       1
Maximum Tweak   2

Write Recovery Time (tWR)       17
Refresh Cycle Time (tRFC)       320
RAS to RAS Delay (tRRD_L)       7
RAS to Ras Delay (tRRD_S)       5
Write to Read Delay (tWTR_L)    7
Write to Read Delay (tWTR_S)    6
Read to Precharge (tRTP)        8
Four Activate Window (tFAW)     33
CAS Write Latency (tCWL)        8

RTL (CHA) D0    56
D1      65
RTL (CHB) D0    57
D1      65
IO-L (CHA) D0   7
D1      4
IO-L (CHB) D0   7
D1      4

tREFI   13600
tCKE    5
tRDRD_sg        7
tRDRD_dg        4
tRDRD_dr        6
tRDRD_dd        7
tRDWR_sg        15
tRDWR_dg        15
tRDWR_dr        34
tRDWR_dd        35
tWRRD_sg        21
tWRRD_dg        20
tWRRD_dr        4
tWRRD_dd        4
tWRWR_sg        7
tWRWR_dg        4
tWRWR_dr        9
tWRWR_dd        9


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.8 -- 2x8Gb GS 4400C19 @ 4266C17. 1.425VDimm, 1.25V Vccio, 1.275V VSA (in bios, actual appears higher) --- HCi Memtest 600%
> 
> 
> 
> IDK guys, like the 7740X. a 8700K is just incredibly fast and instantaneous. It's like you've barely lifted your finger from a mouse click and it's already done.


Nice result. Yeah, some of that is possibly placebo, though. But as you say, very snappy. A 5Ghz hex core is a force to be reckoned with


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Nice Jpmboy!









Seeing as you are using 4400MHz cl19 sticks, just ordered some from newegg.ca Only 3 more left in stock, so jumped on a set. Now just for the apex to come in stock.


----------



## becks

Passed Gsat 3h just to fail in Memtest Pro in 30 mins









You don't pay your 5$ for nothing...


----------



## ogider

Same here.
Gsat done, 0 errors.Memtest 115% error


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Very nice !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On my ram Tweaking: I had to go back to 3733 15-16-28-1t (from 14-16-28-1t) as the later required over 1.575 to get over 1h of Gsat,
> Strange thing is that I had RTL's 53-54-6-6 with 14-16...now with 15-16 I had to go up to 56-57-7-7 to be able to boot..
> 
> ATM 3733 15 16 28 1t SA 1.21 IO 1.18 DIMM 1.45 PCH 1.12 - Passed 2h Gsat - going towards 3h now than I will stop it.
> 
> Here is the full timing from Timing Configuration:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Frequency    3733
> CAS# Latency (tCL)      15
> RAS# to CAS# Delay (tRCD)       16
> Row Precharge Time (tRP)        16
> RAS# Active Time (tRAS) 28
> Command Rate (CR)       1
> Maximum Tweak   2
> 
> Write Recovery Time (tWR)       17
> Refresh Cycle Time (tRFC)       320
> RAS to RAS Delay (tRRD_L)       7
> RAS to Ras Delay (tRRD_S)       5
> Write to Read Delay (tWTR_L)    7
> Write to Read Delay (tWTR_S)    6
> Read to Precharge (tRTP)        8
> Four Activate Window (tFAW)     33
> CAS Write Latency (tCWL)        8
> 
> RTL (CHA) D0    56
> D1      65
> RTL (CHB) D0    57
> D1      65
> IO-L (CHA) D0   7
> D1      4
> IO-L (CHB) D0   7
> D1      4
> 
> tREFI   13600
> tCKE    5
> tRDRD_sg        7
> tRDRD_dg        4
> tRDRD_dr        6
> tRDRD_dd        7
> tRDWR_sg        15
> tRDWR_dg        15
> tRDWR_dr        34
> tRDWR_dd        35
> tWRRD_sg        21
> tWRRD_dg        20
> tWRRD_dr        4
> tWRRD_dd        4
> tWRWR_sg        7
> tWRWR_dg        4
> tWRWR_dr        9
> tWRWR_dd        9


Others may chime in here , but that tCWL seems awfully low for cas 15. tRAS should be 37-40 (cas+rcd_rtp)
edit: pass gsat and fail memtest.. try more vcore/cache voltage or lower your cache multi.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice result. Yeah, some of that is possibly placebo, though. But as you say, very snappy. A 5Ghz hex core is a force to be reckoned with


lol - did a blind speed test with my wife as the test subject.. and she chose the 8700K.








but yeah, "I want to believe".
edit: just fyi - if I lower VSa or vccio just one notch, it fails gsat and HCi in less than 10 sec.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Nice Jpmboy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing as you are using 4400MHz cl19 sticks, just ordered some from newegg.ca Only 3 more left in stock, so jumped on a set. Now just for the apex to come in stock.


Nice... I think they are good sticks, and the XMP did actually boot at 4400 believe it ot not (Z370, not x299). But what's going on with RAM these days?


----------



## ogider

Jpmboy
Higher tREFI this time?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

If you mean price of ram, ya it sucks.







Paid $441 cad for 2x8gb. Jumped up $30 since last week.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Others may chime in here , but that tCWL seems awfully low for cas 15. tRAS should be 37-40 (cas+rcd_rtp)
> edit: pass gsat and fail memtest.. try more vcore/cache voltage or lower your cache multi.


Cache is on default at the moment: 4.2 and CPU is a bit over-volt'ed at 1.42 all manual, all power saving turned off...just to take it out of the equation.
If it keeps failing this time I will go in bios and adjust tRAS...
My biggest throwback now is failed boots between runs or after I get an error and have to restart.
Constantly getting a mix of 49/51/22 and every now and than 56.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy --- [email protected]/4.8 -- 2x8Gb GS 4400C19 @ 4266C17. 1.425VDimm, 1.25V Vccio, 1.275V VSA (in bios, actual appears higher) --- HCi Memtest 600%
> 
> 
> 
> IDK guys, like the 7740X. a 8700K is just incredibly fast and instantaneous. It's like you've barely lifted your finger from a mouse click and it's already done.


this thread has got my attention again into tweaking.. that could be combined with the ROG comp I've been trying to do also but I feel like I get into tweaking then I lose interest for 6 months then im back again









what I really wanted to ask is, whats your experience with the 7740x/8700k? compared to 6700k/7700k? for it to feel incredibly fast?


----------



## CptSpig

24/7 overclock on a Predator 360 AIO with a DDC3.2 PWM pump upgrade.

CptSpig -- ASUS R6A --- [email protected] 44([email protected]) 1.120v-- cache [email protected] --- 4x8GB GS TridentZ 3600c16 @ 4000c16-17-16-36-1T. HCI Memtest 1000%. VDIMM 1.410V, VSA 0.800, VCCIO1.0100


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Nice Jpmboy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing as you are using 4400MHz cl19 sticks, just ordered some from newegg.ca Only 3 more left in stock, so jumped on a set. Now just for the apex to come in stock.


are they F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK?

they seem to be available here in Europe, decent price too


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> If you mean price of ram, ya it sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paid $441 cad for 2x8gb. Jumped up $30 since last week.


yeah = some kits even more. I guess the ram guys are joining the INtel price party.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Cache is on default at the moment: 4.2 and CPU is a bit over-volt'ed at 1.42 all manual, all power saving turned off...just to take it out of the equation.
> If it keeps failing this time I will go in bios and adjust tRAS...
> My biggest throwback now is failed boots between runs or after I get an error and have to restart.
> Constantly getting a mix of 49/51/22 and every now and than 56.


Ram OC is an OC on the cache, IMC and core... so OCing the ram may require jacking up voltage on each.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> this thread has got my attention again into tweaking.. that could be combined with the ROG comp I've been trying to do also but I feel like I get into tweaking then I lose interest for 6 months then im back again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what I really wanted to ask is, whats your experience with the 7740x/8700k? compared to 6700k/7700k? for it to feel incredibly fast?


just using it. 2D stuff just flashes up. 3D... I'm seeing best resulkts in DX12 stuff with the 8700K. No hard data.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> 24/7 overclock on a Predator 360 AIO with a DDC3.2 PWM pump upgrade.
> 
> CptSpig -- ASUS R6A --- [email protected] 44([email protected]) 1.120v-- cache [email protected] --- 4x8GB GS TridentZ 3600c16 @ 4000c16-17-16-36-1T. HCI Memtest 1000%. VDIMM 1.410V, VSA 0.800, VCCIO1.0100
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


you too eh.. seems that once you really test out 4000, it wants 16-17-16. I couldn;t get solid stability with flat primaries.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you too eh.. seems that once you really test out 4000, it wants 16-17-16. I couldn;t get solid stability with flat primaries.


I tried for the last two days but I would get errors at about 300% so I gave up and settled.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> I tried for the last two days but I would get errors at about 300% so I gave up and settled.


you have some good sticks and a good board there... nice rtls (via Auto?)


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> are they F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK?
> 
> they seem to be available here in Europe, decent price too


Yes, F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you have some good sticks and a good board there... nice rtls (via Auto?)


Yes auto. Are you manually setting io's and rlt's? You said a while back you were having trouble with graphics in Time Spy. What was the fix? I can't get the graphics core and memory to run as high as with Broadwell-E.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


heh...this chips breezes trough 8h RB at 1.390...tought 1.4+ manual will be plenty with cache default for ram testing...

Switch tCWL from manual (8) to auto and it shoot up to 13...
Also switched rtl's to auto and they went up to 56/57/7/7...

Still testing...at least I'm getting over 50% Memtest Pro constantly now...so I'm getting closer.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Went up and down (up to 1.325) and still no luck...just a "strong" IMC on this one I guess..
> Would pass HCI and/or Gsat than on a different run just fail...so was just a strange profile and I am trying to improve it...
> 
> Here is where I got so far:


any luck stabilizing your overclock? im curious as we share the same board and have the same memory capacity

Bios : 1701

yes old but it works well for me









im currently trying to overclock my ram too

so far have 3600 CL15 15 35 1t 1.4v seems okay so far need more time to see if its stable enough though

also wanted to ask if anyone knew.. how much does NB frequency affect ram speed? what correlation is there


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> 24/7 overclock on a Predator 360 AIO with a DDC3.2 PWM pump upgrade.
> 
> CptSpig -- ASUS R6A --- [email protected] 44([email protected]) 1.120v-- cache [email protected] --- 4x8GB GS TridentZ 3600c16 @ 4000c16-17-16-36-1T. HCI Memtest 1000%. VDIMM 1.410V, VSA 0.800, VCCIO1.0100
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Very nice!!!


----------



## SHLEE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> 24/7 overclock on a Predator 360 AIO with a DDC3.2 PWM pump upgrade.
> 
> CptSpig -- ASUS R6A --- [email protected] 44([email protected]) 1.120v-- cache [email protected] --- 4x8GB GS TridentZ 3600c16 @ 4000c16-17-16-36-1T. HCI Memtest 1000%. VDIMM 1.410V, VSA 0.800, VCCIO1.0100
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Great result
Did you set SA voltage as auto?


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> Great result
> Did you set SA voltage as auto?


Thanks, set manually.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Very nice!!!


Thanks, going to order three more fans for push pull. Should bring the temps down a bit.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> any luck stabilizing your overclock? im curious as we share the same board and have the same memory capacity
> 
> Bios : 1701
> 
> yes old but it works well for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im currently trying to overclock my ram too
> 
> so far have 3600 CL15 15 35 1t 1.4v seems okay so far need more time to see if its stable enough though
> 
> also wanted to ask if anyone knew.. how much does NB frequency affect ram speed? what correlation is there


Been having my best overall ram OC experience on the Bios before 3405.. but had some other problems so the trade off wasn't worth it for me.
I am on the latest bios now (3405)
So far I spent over straight 48h in Ram OC and nowhere near the end result...it really isn't something for everyone. Will report here if I have findings and what not....

Boot --> Fire Memtest Pro ---> Let it run till it errors --> Put findings in spreadsheet --> Restart --- Bios --> adjust settings -- > Restart --> Boot....for 48+ hours ...


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Been having my best overall ram OC experience on the Bios before 3405.. but had some other problems so the trade off wasn't worth it for me.
> I am on the latest bios now (3405)
> So far I spent over straight 48h in Ram OC and nowhere near the end result...it really isn't something for everyone. Will report here if I have findings and what not....
> 
> Boot --> Fire Memtest Pro ---> Let it run till it errors --> Put findings in spreadsheet --> Restart --- Bios --> adjust settings -- > Restart --> Boot....for 48+ hours ...


yeah it seems that way.. I don't think I have it in me atm to do secondary timings.

at 3600 CL15 im just using the computer as usual I might run HCI later but in BF1 for a few hours it never crashed which when my OC is off it usually picks it up

I'm assuming you mean Bios 3504?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Thanks, going to order three more fans for push pull. Should bring the temps down a bit.


If they don't help, u can use your chiller!!!


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> If they don't help, u can use your chiller!!!


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> yeah it seems that way.. I don't think I have it in me atm to do secondary timings.
> 
> at 3600 CL15 im just using the computer as usual I might run HCI later but in BF1 for a few hours it never crashed which when my OC is off it usually picks it up
> 
> I'm assuming you mean Bios 3504?


Yes sorry, that's the one.

And than I just realised this:


So I might be possible have to re-test all the settings I tried today..
I mean I could'v disabled it from the get go but the point was to test it in my 24/7 environment with all the crap loading at startup and all the background programs...


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Yes sorry, that's the one.
> 
> And than I just realised this:
> 
> 
> So I might be possible have to re-test all the settings I tried today..
> I mean I could'v disabled it from the get go but the point was to test it in my 24/7 environment with all the crap loading at startup and all the background programs...


ahh, I always have updates turned off









also still on win7


----------



## SHLEE

Passed HCI 500%

4000MHz Quad channel(32GB)
16-17-16-34 1t tRFC 285
DRAM 1.42v IO 1.01v SA 0.8v

Successfully reduced IO and SA voltage with the same timings.
But still cannot make straight 16


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> ahh, I always have updates turned off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also still on win7


Also what makes it particularly difficult (compared to CPU or GPU OC) is SA and IO ...and VTT ...and Boot voltage, and PCH, PLL and some other 20 settings that apply to RAM OC ..AT Once!

It's not like you set you SA and IO (this 2 are the most important) to 1.35 both and than work your way down and see how low can you get.
Its a guess game... And SA and IO have a wave pattern .. that means that you might have the following:

Fail: 1.10 SA
Perfect 1000% Memtest at 1.15 SA
Fail: 1.20 SA

Same for IO and any combination of IO and SA, as for example:

Fail: 1.10 IO 1.13 SA
Perfect 1000% Memtest at 1.10 IO & 1.15 SA
Fail: 1.10 IO & 1.16 SA

Also keep in mind all motherboards (or at least mine) overshoot or under-volts from bios to bios...so if you where stable on a bios version you might not be on the next one..
Also because on this board you can't offset North-bridge (cache ) frequency ...so you end up overshooting the CPU with extra V to compensate and if you have a "leaky" CPU like mine ....you only make more bad than good.
Also 89% of people need more SA than IO but that's not a rule...

At this point thinking of reverting the CPU back at stock default till I get some feeling of the RAM. Most I could do so far is 70%+ Memtest and already have an over 200 columns / 80 rows spreadsheet with all settings tried...

If you @Jpmboy or anyone else have a better methodology of testing this and "hit" the sweet spot... please share with me...I'm a noob at RAM OC and I admit it any day of the week. But I have patience and want to learn.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Also what makes it particularly difficult (compared to CPU or GPU OC) is SA and IO ...and VTT ...and Boot voltage, and PCH, PLL and some other 20 settings that apply to RAM OC ..AT Once!
> 
> It's not like you set you SA and IO (this 2 are the most important) to 1.35 both and than work your way down and see how low can you get.
> Its a guess game... And SA and IO have a wave pattern .. that means that you might have the following:
> 
> Fail: 1.10 SA
> Perfect 1000% Memtest at 1.15 SA
> Fail: 1.20 SA
> 
> Same for IO and any combination of IO and SA, as for example:
> 
> Fail: 1.10 IO 1.13 SA
> Perfect 1000% Memtest at 1.10 IO & 1.15 SA
> Fail: 1.10 IO & 1.16 SA
> 
> Also keep in mind all motherboards (or at least mine) overshoot or under-volts from bios to bios...so if you where stable on a bios version you might not be on the next one..
> Also because on this board you can't offset North-bridge (cache ) frequency ...so you end up overshooting the CPU with extra V to compensate and if you have a "leaky" CPU like mine ....you only make more bad than good.
> Also 89% of people need more SA than IO but that's not a rule...
> 
> At this point thinking of reverting the CPU back at stock default till I get some feeling of the RAM. Most I could do so far is 70%+ Memtest and already have an over 200 columns / 80 rows spreadsheet with all settings tried...
> 
> If you @Jpmboy or anyone else have a better methodology of testing this and "hit" the sweet spot... please share with me...I'm a noob at RAM OC and I admit it any day of the week. But I have patience and want to learn.


what exactly are you trying to get to with those 16GB sticks?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what exactly are you trying to get to with those 16GB sticks?


I want the extra 5 fps I might get at 1440p for my g-sync gaming while not being afraid to let it run a 4k video render overnight or programming debugging in VM's..or when I feel the rush to submit some scores to HWBOT
Want 3733 or 3866 with as low latency and highest copy bandwidth I can







(Want 4100 really...but my Mobo/CPU are nowhere near that so I am being a bit realistic







)

3866 is out of the woods as it requires to much V to be stable 24/7
so 3733... and or around C15/C16 with tight primaries and secondaries..

Am I too optimistic ?









EDIT: Had 3733 C16 but a combination of either updating Bios or frying that CPU or both resulted in that profile not working anymore.
Can't roll to previews version of bios as I will lose on some boot bugs I had on that earlier version.

I'm not expecting you to magically trow me some random no. and I just put them in and boom! it works..
More concerned if how I do things is right or not and if I should persevere in that direction or give up and try some different approach.

How do you find your ram oc's ? do you sit there for hours like me and just punch in no. and restart --> test --> restart ? there must be a better way!


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> Passed HCI 500%
> 
> 4000MHz Quad channel(32GB)
> 16-17-16-34 1t tRFC 285
> DRAM 1.42v IO 1.01v SA 0.8v
> 
> Successfully reduced IO and SA voltage with the same timings.
> But still cannot make straight 16


Looks great but 34 tras? What is your trtp?







is it stable in Gsat or 1000% of HCI memtest?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I want the extra 5 fps I might get at 1440p for my g-sync gaming while not being afraid to let it run a 4k video render overnight or programming debugging in VM's..or when I feel the rush to submit some scores to HWBOT
> Want 3733 or 3866 with as low latency and highest copy bandwidth I can
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Want 4100 really...but my Mobo/CPU are nowhere near that so I am being a bit realistic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 3866 is out of the woods as it requires to much V to be stable 24/7
> so 3733... and or around C15/C16 with tight primaries and secondaries..
> 
> Am I too optimistic ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Had 3733 C16 but a combination of either updating Bios or frying that CPU or both resulted in that profile not working anymore.
> Can't roll to previews version of bios as I will lose on some boot bugs I had on that earlier version.
> 
> I'm not expecting you to magically trow me some random no. and I just put them in and boom! it works..
> More concerned if how I do things is right or not and if I should persevere in that direction or give up and try some different approach.
> 
> How do you find your ram oc's ? do you sit there for hours like me and just punch in no. and restart --> test --> restart ? there must be a better way!


that 5fps via ram is pretty unlikely for all but a very few games (or benchmarks) especially going from like 3600 to 3866, or even 4000. I'd shoot for 3600 c15 or 16, and tighten up the secondaries, low latency helps a lot. The Impact (I still have one) is one of the best ram OC MBs. Use one of the built-in presets for the secondary timings, and adjust the primaries for the kit's needs. If you are looking at 5 fps while gaming, it would be easier to do with just a cache OC on a stable Ram OC, than trying to squeeze the ram (especially 16 GB DS sticks). But yeah.. once you start wandering around in the wilderness of non-mainstream ram 24/7 OC, it is very Edisonian, unless you are a RAM EE (and there are a few around here)


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


I think I already knew most of what you said but just needed someone to re-confirm it for me. Thank you for that







( I'm one of those that thinks in the middle of the night: "well...when it rains it thunders...when it snows...it still rains it's just that it takes place up at 10.000+ m...so why aren't there any thunders ?)

On a different note..do you restart and change settings in Bios after a Memtest error or do you trust just closing Memtest and changing settings in turbo-v ? and when you are stable...go and put them in Bios "for good" ?.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I think I already knew most of what you said but just needed someone to re-confirm it for me. Thank you for that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( I'm one of those that thinks in the middle of the night: "well...when it rains it thunders...when it snows...it still rains it's just that it takes place up at 10.000+ m...so why aren't there any thunders ?)
> 
> On a different note..do you restart and change settings in Bios after a Memtest error or do you trust just closing Memtest and changing settings in turbo-v ? and when you are stable...go and put them in Bios "for good" ?.


its not your CPU/MOBO.. these 16gb sticks do not want to see 4000 or 3866.. when I benched them last week even with up to 2v they didn't want to do go above 3600 with tight timings

even G.SKILL max they sell is 3866 CL18 which are very recently new & will set you back £450/$590

we will be lucky to hit 3733 CL15.. I think I got 3600 CL15 sorted, 3733 failed but I think with more time I might be able to do it

currently just gone back to stock 3200CL14 but changed it to 1T until I have it in me to stress these the new overclocks









jpm is right these boards imho are '' the last of the mohicans'' as you know ASUS stopped making top tier ITX boards since dropping the impact... the Z270/Z370I STRIX are rebranded Pro Gaming boards

the impact puts them to shame, I hope someone does some trickery to let coffee lake work on z170 because i'd bet the impact would still be the best board of choice


----------



## SHLEE




----------



## jdc122

I just bought some binned ram (4000 12-12-12), I really can't wait to be posting in here! Waiting on a good 2 dimm z370 board to come out and it'd playtime for the winter


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdc122*
> 
> I just bought some binned ram (4000 12-12-12), I really can't wait to be posting in here! Waiting on a good 2 dimm z370 board to come out and it'd playtime for the winter


4000 cl12 @ 1,35v?


















Most b die can do 4000c12 with 1.8v on air


----------



## jdc122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> 4000 cl12 @ 1,35v?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most b die can do 4000c12 with 1.8v on air


Will check when hwbot.org is back online for the actual specs but it's pretty low voltage I'm sure...


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdc122*
> 
> Will check when hwbot.org is back online for the actual specs but it's pretty low voltage I'm sure...


Hello

Low voltage is a relative term. Compared to what 2.0V?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I think I already knew most of what you said but just needed someone to re-confirm it for me. Thank you for that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( I'm one of those that thinks in the middle of the night: "well...when it rains it thunders...when it snows...it still rains it's just that it takes place up at 10.000+ m...so why aren't there any thunders ?)
> 
> On a different note..*do you restart and change settings in Bios* after a Memtest error or do you trust just closing Memtest and changing settings in turbo-v ? and when you are stable...go and put them in Bios "for good" ?.


absolutely! ram training is critical. I also will go complete cold boot a few times before calling it "good".








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdc122*
> 
> I just bought some binned ram (4000 12-12-12), I really can't wait to be posting in here! Waiting on a good 2 dimm z370 board to come out and it'd playtime for the winter




Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdc122*
> 
> Will check when hwbot.org is back online for the actual specs but it's pretty low voltage I'm sure...


1.9V Vdimm min, 1.275V VCCIO and 1.35V VSA... if your board and CPU are good enough. Damn dude... ask around first.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> absolutely! ram training is critical. I also will go complete cold boot a few times before calling it "good".


You know what..I'm not an EE RAM guy... but I have helping friends (you included haha) and tons of patience... and tons of things to do on PC I don't really feel fancy doing them now...
So I still have like 200 more possible V/SA/IO combination to try than I call It a day and move forward...
Maybe if C15 is not attainable....maybe I will get away with a C16...or go to 3600 and start the fun with C14...will see, only time can tell..
What's for sure is that this will be my final 24/7 OC...and once I have the confidence it passed everything with "Gold standards" I can sleep at night more relaxed.


----------



## Silent Scone

I've not had any difficulty with training on the Apex even when tightening down. The boards, CPU and memory IC have all come a long way since HWE.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*


I have a feeling is something to do with my secondary - tertiary being punched in manually and me not really having a clue what I'm doing ...as for the last day I tinkered with CPU on default and just ram OC and I got a lot of boot failures with q_code 51 and 49/55.. already over-volt'ing like mad the RAM so doubt its that..north of 1.485 should be enough for 3733 C15 when they did C16 at 1.395 (in the chart on first page)


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've not had any difficulty with training on the Apex even when tightening down. The boards, CPU and memory IC have all come a long way since HWE.


there shouldn't be any.








(he's on the impact getting 55s)


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> there shouldn't be any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (he's on the impact getting 55s)


You'r hinting at something.....

Will it be I hit my ram limit ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> You'r hinting at something.....
> 
> Will it be I hit my ram limit ?


If getting 55 I would relax some of the secondary timings as you've already alluded to


----------



## becks

You see...there's the problem @Silent Scone You guys Know... I Guess..

But I do put down on paper every little tip and try to learn


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> You see...there's the problem @Silent Scone You guys Know... I Guess..
> 
> But I do put down on paper every little tip and try to learn


It's just where I'd start personally. It can be difficult to diagnose these things vicariously. Most become unstuck when they try and shoot for the moon after seeing someone posting settings that are dialled right down. As long as there's a gradual method of lowering timings, it's easy to come back from the edge of stability.

Of course good sticks help, too


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I've not had any difficulty with training on the Apex even when tightening down. The boards, CPU and memory IC have all come a long way since HWE.


^^^^^^^


----------



## roybotnik

Just got an 8700k and Gigabyte Aorus Z370 Gaming 7. I'm using a set of GSkill TridentZ 3200C14 2x8GB. Nothing too fancy so far, currently running 3600 15-15-15-35 1.4V. Subtimings pulled from XMP profile but tRFC set to 380 and tREFI set to 14040. VCCIO 1.15V, VCCSA 1.15V. Passed 400% w/ 12 instances, 15GB total selected.

Tried 3733 @ 1.45V with the same timings and 1.2V for IO/SA but it wouldn't pass. Anyone have any suggestions for what I should try next?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's just where I'd start personally. It can be difficult to diagnose these things vicariously. Most become unstuck when they try and shoot for the moon after seeing someone posting settings that are dialled right down. As long as there's a gradual method of lowering timings, it's easy to come back from the edge of stability.
> 
> Of course good sticks help, too


Those 16GB DS sticks are a different beast aren't they. I feel the need to get a kit and try some out on the z370 platform.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Those 16GB DS sticks are a different beast aren't they. I feel the need to get a kit and try some out on the z370 platform.


Now you pushing it!! we can't be friends anymore!... you will start posting 4000+ freq's and that will just flip me!


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Those 16GB DS sticks are a different beast aren't they. I feel the need to get a kit and try some out on the z370 platform.


Hello

The correct modules should work well. They did fine on the IX APEX.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> The correct modules should work well. They did fine on the IX APEX.


I don't disagree. Would just relay my experience on the 370 platform. (tho in general, 16GB stick just have not overclocked as well as 8GB AFAIK). Prices are ridiculous. You have a kit or two.. right?


----------



## Asus11

I went out and thought id test the ram at 3600.. I usually forget

glad to have a good base to start more tweaking on.. hope everything is okay?

I/O 1.15v SA 1.1875v in bios tested 28gb out of 32gb


----------



## Jawnathin

Looking for some advice to get my memory speeds a little higher if possible. Just shipped my CPU off to get delidded so I won't have access to it for a few days but I am looking for things to try.

*CPU* - i7-7820X (Mesh is OC'd to 3.3ghz)
*Motherboard* - Asus Rampage VI Apex
*Memory* - GSkill 2x F4-4266C19D-16GTZR (4x8GB, 4266mhz 19-19-19-39)

Best so far I've gotten that is HCI stable is 3600mhz @ 17-17-17-37, CR1, tRFC is 300. I used the on-board 4ghz profile for secondary timings. I think the VCCIO is at 1.25 and DRAM voltage was set to 1.45v. Read bandwidth is about 100GB/s and Latency is high-53 and low-54ms. Overall pretty solid performance but I would like to think I can get a little more out of the memory.

I can bench at 3600mhz with more aggressive primary timings but it isn't stable. I can go up to 4000mhz by relaxing some of the primary timings but bandwidth and latency gets worse than my 3600CL17 setup.

Any recommendations on where to start once my CPU is back? Should I go back to the standard/'auto' secondary timings? Back off on the mesh OC?

Thanks.


----------



## Silent Scone

I would have thought the 4ghz profile would have worked fairly well with that kit. VCCIO shouldn't need to be near that voltage. Leave VCCIO at 1v and try VCCSA at 0.950

Leave Mesh at 3Ghz for the time being.


----------



## Jawnathin

Thank you! The 4ghz profile was extremely useful in getting bandwidth up and latency down when compared to the otherwise same settings without them. I was able to bench with higher speeds or more aggressive primary timings without it but the 'slower' 4ghz profile seemed to offer better performance. I still think there is more left in it so I appreciate the help.

I'll back off on the VCCIO and VCCSA voltages, I thought I read the IMC likes volts around there but after reading this thread more that seems like way too much now. Maybe less volts will help get some lower CPU temps too. I will dial back the Mesh to 3ghz and see if that helps.

Is it known that an aggressive mesh can cause problems when pushing the memory? I was thinking the faster the mesh the better overall but maybe it is causing me to give up too much on the memory side to be worth it.

Slightly off topic but what is your Cache voltage set at and is that the same as the Ring/Mesh voltage on other boards? I think mine is at 1.150v for the 3.3ghz mesh.


----------



## becks

Gave up on 3733 15-15-28-1t and 15-16-28-1t... after couple of days tryeing every possible combination of SA and IO draw the conclusion my DS sticks are not up to it.
Late last night on my first try at 16-16-28-1t 1.5 IO 1.17 SA It went up to 180% before the first error so I'm on the right track.

Will post back if something happens..( at the moment CPU at stock and all Secondary and Tertiary timings on RAM on AUTO)


----------



## Kimir

So now the cache as yet another name on the new platform, mesh that is, eh?
Northbridge, Uncore, cache, now mesh, am I missing any? lol


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> So now the cache as yet another name on the new platform, mesh that is, eh?
> Northbridge, Uncore, cache, now mesh, am I missing any? lol


ringbus too.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> ringbus too.


Good point!!!

Hey mate, have u already or are u jumping to Sky's x???


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Good point!!!
> 
> Hey mate, have u already or are u jumping to Sky's x???


Ya eventually. Have the board and ram, just need the cpu.

Going for the 8700k for the time being, have the cpu and ram, just need the board.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Ya eventually. Have the board and ram, just need the cpu.
> 
> Going for the 8700k for the time being, have the cpu and ram, just need the board.


Nice purchase too. The 8700K is a great cpu.

Waiting for your tests!!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> So now the cache as yet another name on the new platform, mesh that is, eh?
> Northbridge, Uncore, cache, now mesh, am I missing any? lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> ringbus too.


Unfortunately, it's a completely different, but necessary bus/com ring architecture. The Anadtech guys did a good write up


----------



## Kimir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Unfortunately, it's a completely different, but necessary bus/com ring architecture. The Anadtech guys did a good write up


Oh, will be reading that then.
It's kind of misleading when CPU-z, Aida & co cup the same name for something that is entirely different, but I guess that's the trade off for keeping a software compatible with many architecture.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> Oh, will be reading that then.
> It's kind of misleading when CPU-z, Aida & co cup the same name for something that is entirely different, but I guess that's the trade off for keeping a software compatible with many architecture.


vide infra








https://www.anandtech.com/show/11550/the-intel-skylakex-review-core-i9-7900x-i7-7820x-and-i7-7800x-tested/5


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I don't disagree. Would just relay my experience on the 370 platform. (tho in general, 16GB stick just have not overclocked as well as 8GB AFAIK). Prices are ridiculous. You have a kit or two.. right?


Hello

I do have a couple of kits that I'll be trying on the APEX once I get it set up. Still on the Z370-A. Every time I get testing and screenshots done a new BIOS version is released and I have to start over.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praz*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I do have a couple of kits that I'll be trying on the APEX once I get it set up. Still on the Z370-A. Every time I get testing and screenshots done a new BIOS version is released and I have to start over.


bios updates... shh, you'll p-off those folks always complaining that there are not enough of them.


----------



## Asus11

pretty happy about this.. going to try tweak it more.. as 3866 is not happening, then only then I might have a look at secondary timings









then will probably go back to 4.9 if I feel the need but defo will up the NB clock on the end close to the core

in bios

1.45v RAM
1.1875 I/O
1.200 SA

don't really want to go above 1.5v for 24/7 so I shall see what I can do with a limit of 1.5v..

but I have seen some people say 1.6v is okay too.. im also thinking life of the CPU too(IMC) as its a golden 6700k I don't want to kill it


----------



## SHLEE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pretty happy about this.. going to try tweak it more.. as 3866 is not happening, then only then I might have a look at secondary timings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then will probably go back to 4.9 if I feel the need but defo will up the NB clock on the end close to the core
> 
> in bios
> 
> 1.45v RAM
> 1.1875 I/O
> 1.200 SA
> 
> don't really want to go above 1.5v for 24/7 so I shall see what I can do with a limit of 1.5v..
> 
> but I have seen some people say 1.6v is okay too.. im also thinking life of the CPU too(IMC) as its a golden 6700k I don't want to kill it


What a great result!
Straight 15


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> What a great result!
> Straight 15


thanks! im still deciding what to do.. I might be able to do 3600 CL14 .. not quite sure which is better 3733 CL15 or 3600 CL14

then when CAS does not want to go any lower which is the next thing to try lower?

I read jpm said CAS +RCD+RTP for tRAS(+/-) 2 so I changed my RTP from 10 to 6 and tRAS to 34 it passed HCI but my scores are lower in Aida

I could probably go lower on tRAS currently @ 15 15 34 1t RTP 6


----------



## Koniakki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> thanks! im still deciding what to do.. I might be able to do 3600 CL14 .. not quite sure which is better 3733 CL15 or 3600 CL14
> 
> then when CAS does not want to go any lower which is the next thing to try lower?
> 
> I read jpm said CAS +RCD+RTP for tRAS(+/-) 2 so I changed my RTP from 10 to 6 and tRAS to 34 it passed HCI but my scores are lower in Aida
> 
> I could probably go lower on tRAS currently @ 15 15 34 1t RTP 6


You can do it!











Not final. Just quickly tested(HCI 200%) and barely tighten up. My 7700k IMC is really finicky unfortunately.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koniakki*
> 
> You can do it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not final. Just quickly tested(HCI 200%) and barely tighten up. My 7700k IMC is really finicky unfortunately.


nice job!

what volts are you at?

I think I got 3600 CL14 14 34 1T @ 1.470v

will leave it to test before I go to bed.. (takes about 10 hours for 1000% lol )

whats everyones thoughts? 3600 CL14 or 3733 CL15? 3600 seems on the low end frequency wise


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I think I got 3600 CL14 14 34 1T @ 1.470v


You on 16GB sticks?
Mind sharing your timings?


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> You on 16GB sticks?
> Mind sharing your timings?


yes 16gb sticks F4-3200C14D-32GVK

I would not say im 100% stable ive only done 100% HCI and everything seems okay, I need to use the computer so have no time in the day to test 1000% but I will leave it running overnight I have a good feeling it will pass though.

I have no secondary timings done only what you see CL14 14 34 1T 1.470v ram 1.1875v I/0 1.2v SA 40 cache 48 core 1.36v


----------



## pion

How does HCI compare to the stressapptest in Linux?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> nice job!
> 
> what volts are you at?
> 
> I think I got 3600 CL14 14 34 1T @ 1.470v
> 
> will leave it to test before I go to bed.. (takes about 10 hours for 1000% lol )
> 
> whats everyones thoughts? 3600 CL14 or 3733 CL15? 3600 seems on the low end frequency wise


i think he is on 8GB sticks?

anywho... nice job with your 16GB sticks. DL a copy of the Asrock Timing config (for their z170 mobos) so you can show the full timings on on tab.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> How does HCI compare to the stressapptest in Linux?


GSAT is much quicker with more installed memory, HCi seems to load the cache more than GSAT.


----------



## becks

@Jpmboy Getting there....huh ?!










If it ain't 1000% it ain't stable for me...
At the end of the day if you cheat ... you only cheat yourself.


----------



## Koniakki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> nice job!
> 
> what volts are you at?
> 
> I think I got 3600 CL14 14 34 1T @ 1.470v
> 
> will leave it to test before I go to bed.. (takes about 10 hours for 1000% lol )
> 
> whats everyones thoughts? 3600 CL14 or 3733 CL15? 3600 seems on the low end frequency wise


Dirty OC and havent messed much with the subs and tertiary yet.

Btw these are TridentZ 4266 CL19-19-19 kit.(F4-4266C19D-16GTZA).


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> @Jpmboy Getting there....huh ?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it ain't 1000% it ain't stable for me...
> At the end of the day if you cheat ... you only cheat yourself.


have you considered using GSAT?


----------



## becks

@Jpmboy Getting there huh ?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> have you considered using GSAT?


it passes 3+h ...on profiles that error in memtest in the first 25-45% so don't know what to say bout the last iteration of it (running in OS under bash)


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> How does HCI compare to the stressapptest in Linux?


I have not tried stressapptest but I like HCI because it also stresses the cache, other day I got BSOD 101 from HCI cache needed more Vcore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> i think he is on 8GB sticks?
> 
> anywho... nice job with your 16GB sticks. DL a copy of the Asrock Timing config (for their z170 mobos) so you can show the full timings on on tab.
> GSAT is much quicker with more installed memory, HCi seems to load the cache more than GSAT.


Thank you, I will download it and have a look, I have memTweakit downloaded but the asrock program looks better layed out

what do you think Jpm 3600 CL14 or 3733 CL15? I think 3600 but the frequency geek in me likes 3733

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> @Jpmboy Getting there....huh ?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it ain't 1000% it ain't stable for me...
> At the end of the day if you cheat ... you only cheat yourself.


how comes your only testing 20GB?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koniakki*
> 
> Dirty OC and havent messed much with the subs and tertiary yet.
> 
> Btw these are TridentZ 4266 CL19-19-19 kit.(F4-4266C19D-16GTZA).


nice set to begin with

you might be limited by the 4 sticks / MB .. but still be be able to get a rocking end result


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


That's the maximum amount memtest pro allows you to run / instance under win 10.

Been covered in depth couple of pages back... will try and search the link to that post for you.

EDIT: here is some info - http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread/5020#post_26415544
Quote:


> The best yet slowest memory test is next, HCI Memtest or Pro for $5. Now I have seen many different ways to set this up, and I believe I settled on the best for >32GB. A lot of people say to run 90% of your total memory in as many HCI instances as you have cores (including hyper-threads). The problem is that the program takes the memory size you select and makes its only usable by that HCI instance. Windows doesnt really like this, so it places a limit on the amount of memory a program can make private. It can be from 2400 MB to 3300 MB depending on what else you have running (at least on my system). This is usually ok for most people, but me being a dumba$$. I decided to get 64GB of RAM and a 6 core chip (12 with ht). So the most I can test at one time using 12 HCI instances is 39.6 GB. Now I can open up another 6 HCI instances and lets those run, the problem is that since I am over the core count, these 6 will need to share with the other 12 running, which makes a slow job even that much slower. So I thought about this for a while. I even emailed the programmer and asked him a few questions about how to run 90% of my memory, and he said the same thing. You have to open more instances and it will take longer. Now this is where I had the epiphany. I already know my ram sticks are ok, I ran Memtest86 on the entire set. This test isnt really to test the memory, its to test the system at the timing levels and voltages. I dont need to test 90% of my RAM, I just need to load it with enough to stress the system. So now I always run 2500 MB in each instance, with a total of 12 instances. It works like a charm, if something is off, HCI lets me know. Usually its in 10 mins or less, but when your getting close to stable it could be in the 10 hour range, but it always lets me know if something is wrong hehe. I use the "golden standard" that I have seen listed many times of 1000%, this means that each instance has run through its 2500MB of memory 10 times. Thats 300000 GB of writes and reads. If you compare it to a 32GB system. 32768 * 0.9 = 29491, 29491*10 = 294910, so its just about even. Making it, at least in my book, good enough. Take screenshots, mark it down in your spreadsheet as your baseline.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> That's the maximum amount memtest pro allows you to run / instance under win 10.
> 
> Been covered in depth couple of pages back... will try and search the link to that post for you.
> 
> EDIT: here is some info - http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread/5020#post_26415544


Thanks, I might try using less memory then, as I usually test 29GB to 1000% & it takes close to 10 hours









how is your progress so far on your clock?

I feel like im close but still so far away


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> Thanks, I might try using less memory then, as I usually test 29GB to 1000% & it takes close to 10 hours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is your progress so far on your clock?
> 
> I feel like im close but still so far away


Nowhere close...
First we need to find a base...where you can pass 1000% with confidence..
Than as soon as we touch CPU clock's or even GPU OC we have to start re-tuning...
Than secondaries...
Tertiary..

Found out that my RAM is as leaky as my CPU

Goes well at one bin (Voltage bin) but fails at 0.25 under or over that...will be interesting.
The one at 500+ was at 1.380 Ram V.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Nowhere close...
> First we need to find a base...where you can pass 1000% with confidence..
> Than as soon as we touch CPU clock's or even GPU OC we have to start re-tuning...
> Than secondaries...
> Tertiary..
> 
> Found out that my RAM is as leaky as my CPU
> 
> Goes well at one bin (Voltage bin) but fails at 0.25 under or over that...will be interesting.
> The one at 500+ was at 1.380 Ram V.


ive got 1000% on 3733 cl15 1.45v

but I think I can get 3600 cl14 on 1.47v

I want to see max I can do on 1.5v.. I can do 3600 cl13 but needs 1.6v which I don't think is a good idea for 24/7

im just waiting for the easy part.. tuning cache as high as possible at the end









when JPM said his 8700k felt really snappy.. i've felt this too with 6700k. I believe its a combination of fast memory with also high cache


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I have not tried stressapptest but I like HCI because it also stresses the cache, other day I got BSOD 101 from HCI cache needed more Vcore
> Thank you, I will download it and have a look, I have memTweakit downloaded but the asrock program looks better layed out
> 
> *what do you think Jpm 3600 CL14 or 3733 CL15?* I think 3600 but the frequency geek in me likes 3733
> how comes your only testing 20GB?
> nice set to begin with
> 
> you might be limited by the 4 sticks / MB .. but still be be able to get a rocking end result


if 3733cl15 is not requireing lots of vsa or vccio, the why not? it should perform better with the proper secondaries.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> Thanks, I might try using less memory then, as I usually test 29GB to 1000% & it takes close to 10 hours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is your progress so far on your clock?
> 
> I feel like im close but still so far away


If you have the Pro version of Hci you can use this if you are not already:

MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


and with bash gsat, be sure to use a command like:

_stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400_

for 2h with 32GB


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if 3733cl15 is not requireing lots of vsa or vccio, the why not? it should perform better with the proper secondaries.
> If you have the Pro version of Hci you can use this if you are not already:
> 
> MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file
> 
> 
> and with bash gsat, be sure to use a command like:
> 
> _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400_
> 
> for 2h with 32GB


--pause_delay 14400??? Talk about overkill!







7250 works for me!

Just joking of course! Nothing really useful to say.







Still in BW-E and wandering / wondering ...


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if 3733cl15 is not requireing lots of vsa or vccio, the why not? it should perform better with the proper secondaries.
> If you have the Pro version of Hci you can use this if you are not already:
> 
> MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file
> 
> 
> and with bash gsat, be sure to use a command like:
> 
> _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400_
> 
> for 2h with 32GB


yes I do have Pro version but I did not have the launcher ty again

3733cl15 takes less volts than 3600cl14 1.45v vs 1.47v

both I/O SA the same 1.1875 / 1.2v

I have not confirmed my 3600CL14 overclock yet

but here is a look at my stable 3733CL15 timings

I have not touched any timings as of now

CAS will not go lower than 15 with 3733 so im not too clued up on what to lower next for extra gains


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> yes I do have Pro version but I did not have the launcher ty again
> 
> 3733cl15 takes less volts than 3600cl14 1.45v vs 1.47v
> 
> both I/O SA the same 1.1875 / 1.2v
> 
> I have not confirmed my 3600CL14 overclock yet
> 
> but here is a look at my stable 3733CL15 timings
> 
> I have not touched any timings as of now
> 
> CAS will not go lower than 15 with 3733 so im not too clued up on what to lower next for extra gains
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


lookin real good!
everything in here is on Auto?

load the built in preset for 4133 (I think Raja's preset is on that board). then set your primaries back as you have them. You can lower RFC to like 328 or so, and increase tREFI to 2x the Auto value. Should buy some bandwidth.


----------



## Silent Scone

Just running through HCI on the 7940X. Or in analogous terms, I'm watching paint dry so I can't come out tonight.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> lookin real good!
> everything in here is on Auto?
> 
> load the built in preset for 4133 (I think Raja's preset is on that board). then set your primaries back as you have them. You can lower RFC to like 328 or so, and increase tREFI to 2x the Auto value. Should buy some bandwidth.


I was on Bios 1701there was no presets you speak of, updated to latest 3504 still no presets of 4133, only 4000 on 2x8gb samsung b die new sticks @ 1.8v









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just running through HCI on the 7940X. Or in analogous terms, I'm watching paint dry so I can't come out tonight.


HCI makes me want to buy a laptop or something







I just now reserve it to run before I go sleep ..ill try get 100% first so I know its not wasted time.. I hope


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just running through HCI on the 7940X. Or in analogous terms, I'm watching paint dry so I can't come out tonight.


yawn, right? What settings? the usual 4000?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I was on Bios 1701there was no presets you speak of, updated to latest 3504 still no presets of 4133, only 4000 on 2x8gb samsung b die new sticks @ 1.8v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HCI makes me want to buy a laptop or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just now reserve it to run before I go sleep ..ill try get 100% first so I know its not wasted time.. I hope


i'll see if I can dig up some screenshots. btw, for a quick test, use Bash gsat - it will find errors.
( I'm sure I posted impact ram in this thread...)


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yawn, right? What settings? the usual 4000?
> i'll see if I can dig up some screenshots. btw, for a quick test, use Bash gsat - it will find errors.


Yep. Have done very little change since plugging it in thus far. 4.8 on all cores was a little optimistic, but seems to be ticking along at 4.7Ghz so far. Will be delidding at the weekend


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yep. Have done very little change since plugging it in thus far. 4.8 on all cores was a little optimistic, but seems to be ticking along at 4.7Ghz so far. Will be delidding at the weekend


I'm still "vacillating" about whether to delid this 7980XE at this point. Once it's chilled with 8C water, it behaves pretty well, even at 5.0/1.3V.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I'm still "vacillating" about whether to delid this 7980XE at this point. Once it's chilled with 8C water, it behaves pretty well, even at 5.0/1.3V.


oh I was just watching this & look who it is

go in 19:45


----------



## Kimir

he knows, everyone been telling him and linking the video on other thread.


----------



## Silent Scone

I like how JayZ starts topping the GPU pot as the CPU test starts. lol


----------



## Silent Scone

Quick initial run for tonight

Silent Scone--- Apex VI --- 7940X @ 4.7 GHz (Sync all Cores) --- Mesh @ 3Ghz @ 1.05v --- G.Skill 3200c14 (4x8 GB) @ 4000 (c16-17-16-41-1T) / 1.40V --- VSA 0.880v --- VCCIO 1v--- HCI 400%


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quick initial run for tonight
> 
> Silent Scone--- Apex VI --- 7940X @ 4.7 GHz (Sync all Cores) --- Mesh @ 3Ghz @ 1.05v --- G.Skill 3200c14 (4x8 GB) @ 4000 (c16-17-16-41-1T) / 1.40V --- VSA 0.880v --- VCCIO 1v--- HCI 400%


so fast you broke memtweakit.









(now enter those results in the table.







Pretty sure the sweetspot on this gen IMC has been nailed down )
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> he knows, everyone been telling him and linking the video on other thread.


and PMs.. and bot chat. ugh!

What's funny, is that Sooooo many people actually watch JZs videos.








(the setup part is probably instructive, but.. as scone hinted at Vince: "Give me the Torch. please".


----------



## Jawnathin

Awesome results. Hope I can get something similar when I get my 7820X back. What does AIDA64 benchmark show?


----------



## mouacyk

Has anyone had experience where you swap the modules in the same slots and it completely hoses the stability you've had before? My Trident X 2666 on my Maximus VII Gene board does this. It's a 2933MHz 2x8GB set, I had everything locked down, secondaries, tertiaries, and RTL/IO's at 2666MHz.

Never thought it would make a difference, these being 2 modules in the same kit. Something to keep in mind for future tuning.


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> Has anyone had experience where you swap the modules in the same slots and it completely hoses the stability you've had before? My Trident X 2666 on my Maximus VII Gene board does this. It's a 2933MHz 2x8GB set, I had everything locked down, secondaries, tertiaries, and RTL/IO's at 2666MHz.
> 
> Never thought it would make a difference, these being 2 modules in the same kit. Something to keep in mind for future tuning.


Hello

Yes this is a normal course of action when RAM tuning.


----------



## Jawnathin

I guess the reverse also applies. If you have a tough time OCing, swapping DIMM within the slots could help?


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quick initial run for tonight
> 
> Silent Scone--- Apex VI --- 7940X @ 4.7 GHz (Sync all Cores) --- Mesh @ 3Ghz @ 1.05v --- G.Skill 3200c14 (4x8 GB) @ 4000 (c16-17-16-41-1T) / 1.40V --- VSA 0.880v --- VCCIO 1v--- HCI 400%


Very nice, but that WCL seems a bit low, doesn't it???


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jawnathin*
> 
> I guess the reverse also applies. If you have a tough time OCing, swapping DIMM within the slots could help?


"Slot binning"


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


Hey..

Do you apply same principle to timing tweaking as when trying to pass Memtest ?
As in..you only change them in Bios with restart in between tries ?
Or with secondaries and tertiary you can adjust and test in OS up to a certain level (with memtweak ? )


----------



## Kimir

If it pass in windows, then you can try tightening in OS, but if it fail, you'd better reboot and do the change in bios, re-train and test again.
But you'll still have to test again what successful changes you made in OS when you think they are fine and you then changed the same parameters in bios, again memory training.


----------



## mouacyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> "Slot binning"


Can you explain such a phenomena or point me to further reading? Thanks -- I'm curious now.


----------



## becks

For some reason Memtweak never worked on my system...same empty screen with just the Apply Ok Validate buttons...

Is there any tricks of the trade to make it work ? any special blood sacrifice ?


----------



## Asus11

ok so.. when I updated bios from 1701 to 3504 it was no better so I went back to 1701.. but the Intel ME in the Bios had not gone back.. my 3733 CL15 in 1701 is no longer stable oh & another thing to top it off ASUS released an update hours after I updated to 3504 that the Intel ME that came with it is vulnerable and needs patching.. so yeah.. going to try update bios while in windows, want the old Intel ME back if that's even possible


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> ok so.. when I updated bios from 1701 to 3504 it was no better so I went back to 1701.. but the Intel ME in the Bios had not gone back.. my 3733 CL15 in 1701 is no longer stable oh & another thing to top it off ASUS released an update hours after I updated to 3504 that the Intel ME that came with it is vulnerable and needs patching.. so yeah.. going to try update bios while in windows, want the old Intel ME back if that's even possible


So after all...I wasn't crazy when I said that I was unable to do same profile after updating...woohoo!..

Sorry not cheering for your loss at all! just happy I got confirmation that I ain't crazy...

Not yet atleast...


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> So after all...I wasn't crazy when I said that I was unable to do same profile after updating...woohoo!..
> 
> Sorry not cheering for your loss at all! just happy I got confirmation that I ain't crazy...
> 
> Not yet atleast...


yeah I would update the Intel ME of yours released yesterday on asus website


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> yeah I would update the Intel ME of yours released yesterday on asus website


Already on last one...but thanks for reminding.


----------



## becks

Progressing but still not quite there...
Can anyone have a look at the above picture and notes and tell me if all timings seem all right ? any of them off ?
Looking at increasing bandwidth a bit if possible, especially Copy and lower latency if possible.

Passed 1000% + Memtest over night so now I am onto fine tuning than re-try 1000%+ Memtest


----------



## ThrashZone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yep. Have done very little change since plugging it in thus far. 4.8 on all cores was a little optimistic, but seems to be ticking along at 4.7Ghz so far. Will be delidding at the weekend


Hi,
I'm having issues getting all core x48 to not crash and cause watchdog violations on realbench and cinebench too
Already delidded
x47 seems pretty darn good though
I'm using Intel 200 series IDE.... chipset now but the crashes were happening on MS standard IDE or what ever it's called probably more often.
Just a tad confused


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I believe 16-18-18-38 would be normal for c16 memory.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> 
> 
> Progressing but still not quite there...
> Can anyone have a look at the above picture and notes and tell me if all timings seem all right ? any of them off ?
> Looking at increasing bandwidth a bit if possible, especially Copy and lower latency if possible.
> 
> Passed 1000% + Memtest over night so now I am onto fine tuning than re-try 1000%+ Memtest


that's lookin real good for 16GB sticks! you might getaway with tCWL as low as tWR, try 12 and 14.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's lookin real good for 16GB sticks! you might getaway with tCWL as low as tWR, try 12 and 14.


Anything between 12 and 14 gave me some strange q_codes...AC; 6B-6F...

And now my OS is corrupted...so I will see you all after a fresh install







)...

EDIT: I think I "tripped" it with too high tREFI.. went down to 22880 (2x Auto)..(fixed OS with some CMD wizardry







)
Re-trying tCWL 12-14 now..


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Here goes the promised 1000%...
> 
> 
> 
> *[email protected]@Giga Aorus Gaming [email protected] 4000 [email protected]@1.38v (32GB G.SKill 3600CL15) VCCIO--1.014v VCCSA--0.850v HCI Memtest Pro 1000%*


wow
what a decent write speed and lantency!
how did you manage that?

i am using g.skill 3200 cl14 at 4000 16-17-16-38 400 1T with 7980xe and Rampage Apex
but my write speed is not so good
i came here to ask if someone maked this memory to work with 15-15-15 or 16-16-16 at 4000mhz
but it seems like its impossible for 24/7 even at high voltages(
if so
my question is how to lover timings to get this good lantency?
my results are here
i lovered cpu speed during mem overclock hoping it does not influence om menory speeds






Give me any advices please


----------



## SHLEE

Tighten secondaries bit more, passed HCI 1000% again.

I'm pretty satisfied with the result


----------



## district9prawn

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> i am using g.skill 3200 cl14 at 4000 16-17-16-38 400 1T with 7980xe and Rampage Apex
> but my write speed is not so good
> i came here to ask if someone maked this memory to work with 15-15-15 or 16-16-16 at 4000mhz
> but it seems like its impossible for 24/7 even at high voltages(
> if so
> my question is how to lover timings to get this good lantency?


We've noticed in the Skylake X thread that the hcc chips seem to have slightly higher memory latency and slightly lower bandwidth (The write speed especially). No idea whether this is just aida or something else. Don't sweat it as it will be completely imperceptible outside of benchmarks.


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SHLEE*
> 
> 
> 
> Tighten secondaries bit more, passed HCI 1000% again.
> 
> I'm pretty satisfied with the result


can you post your timings via asus mem tweak it screenshots ?


----------



## Asus11

hopefully I will be back soon

need to sort out my CPU overclock / bios etc before I even begin start doing ram again










so annoying


----------



## CptSpig

but it seems like its impossible for 24/7 even at high voltages(
if so
my question is how to lover timings to get this good lantency?
my results are here
i lovered cpu speed during mem overclock hoping it does not influence om menory speeds


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



IMG ALT=""]http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/3149438/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]





15 or 16-16-16 at 4000mhz

Give me any advices please[/quote]

Try [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] What are your vsa, vccio and Vdimm voltages? Your iol's and rlt's are not aligned.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> wow
> what a decent write speed and lantency!
> how did you manage that?
> 
> i am using g.skill 3200 cl14 at 4000 16-17-16-38 400 1T with 7980xe and Rampage Apex
> but my write speed is not so good
> i came here to ask if someone maked this memory to work with 15-15-15 or 16-16-16 at 4000mhz
> but it seems like its impossible for 24/7 even at high voltages(
> if so
> my question is how to lover timings to get this good lantency?
> my results are here
> i lovered cpu speed during mem overclock hoping it does not influence om menory speeds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give me any advices please


Hi mate.

Try these secondary timings (beginning from tRRD):

4-6-300-32767-12-6-16-4-10-6-16

1.40v ab and cd.


----------



## lilchronic

Posted these a year ago. Never got updated.

z170M oc formula

lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---4000Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.5v---SA 1.3v---HCI 1000%
loose


lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.45v---SA 1.25v---HCI 1000%
Tight


lilchronic - 7350k @ 5Ghz /4.8Ghz 1.4v - 4000Mhz 17-17-17-37-1T - 1.425vdimm - 1.2vccio - 1.25vccsa - HCI 400%


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> but it seems like its impossible for 24/7 even at high voltages(
> if so
> my question is how to lover timings to get this good lantency?
> my results are here
> i lovered cpu speed during mem overclock hoping it does not influence om menory speeds
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> IMG ALT=""]http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/3149438/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 15 or 16-16-16 at 4000mhz
> 
> Give me any advices please


Try [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] What are your vsa, vccio and Vdimm voltages? Your iol's and rlt's are not aligned.[/quote]
my voltages are not optimized, i can set any
for now
vsa 1.15
vccio 1.15
vdimm 1.5
iol's and rlt's what is it? i dont set them manualy

i tried vmanuelgm timings and they works, but i have to set [email protected] as you adviced for 100% stability
thank you


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> Try [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] What are your vsa, vccio and Vdimm voltages? Your iol's and rlt's are not aligned.


my voltages are not optimized, i can set any
for now
vsa 1.15
vccio 1.15
vdimm 1.5
iol's and rlt's what is it? i dont set them manualy

i tried vmanuelgm timings and they works, but i have to set [email protected] as you adviced for 100% stability
thank you[/quote]


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> Hi mate.
> 
> Try these secondary timings (beginning from tRRD):
> 
> 4-6-300-32767-12-6-16-4-10-6-16
> 
> 1.40v ab and cd.


i set secondary timings like you say with [email protected] for stability
but i dont have such memory perfomance as you(
are there any other settings to optimize?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> i set secondary timings like you say with [email protected] for stability
> but i dont have such memory perfomance as you(
> are there any other settings to optimize?


with tWR at 12, try tWCl at 12 also. tRTP 4 should work too. Any small differences in AIDA membench can be cache or just w10 background services


----------



## Jpmboy

daily settings since I got the XE: (2h GSAT, HCI to 2000%)


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


I don't know what's with this ds sticks...but they drive me close to madness..
Whatever I enter in for secondaries manually it gets auto-corrected (tWR - tRFC - tRRD_L.....tCWL)
Then..tWR and tCWL work backwords... on auto they have values like 21-25 for tWR and 6-13 for tCWL..
When I put in manual 12-18 tWR it gets auto corrected +1 and tCWL higher or close to tWR gives rounding errors almost instant in Memtest...RTLS are also all over the place...

passed Memtest 1000% + at 1.38v Dim 1.16 io 1.22 sa ...now just by changing RTL's I have to up it to 1.475v Dim 1.21 io 1.27 sa...

tFAW is also a hog...defaults at 33-43 anything lower instant rounding error = 20000 in memtest..

And the impact does not have raja's profiles anymore... and even if I use a 2x16gb ds profile (3600) everything gets auto-corrected and does not work


----------



## vmanuelgm

[email protected] (strap 125)



HCI Memtest Pro 1500%


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmanuelgm*
> 
> [email protected] (strap 125)
> 
> 
> 
> HCI Memtest Pro 1500%


does new strap give any advantages? lower voltages?
do you choose strap with svid disabled or enabled?


----------



## Asus11

so managed to get my CPU overclock back

then it was time to get my Ram OC back

shouldn't of changed bios












3733CL14 boots etc but fails memtest very quick I think it can be done but may require too much volts that it renders it useless in terms of 24/7

I think its time to try and make 3733CL15 better in terms of secondary etc

3733CL15 1.45V

1.175V I/O
1.16250 S/A


----------



## ogider

Does anyone have experience with manual adjustment of these parameters?
ODT WR
ODT PARK
ODT NOM

I mean the experience in general. Not for specific mainboard.

Helped to set a higher clock?, "loosening" gave more space to the OC without raising the voltage.E.t.c.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> does new strap give any advantages? lower voltages?


No.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Posted these a year ago. Never got updated.
> 
> z170M oc formula
> 
> lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---4000Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.5v---SA 1.3v---HCI 1000%
> loose
> 
> 
> lilchronic--i5-6600K @4.8/4.8---3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T----1.45v---SA 1.25v---HCI 1000%
> Tight
> 
> 
> lilchronic - 7350k @ 5Ghz /4.8Ghz 1.4v - 4000Mhz 17-17-17-37-1T - 1.425vdimm - 1.2vccio - 1.25vccsa - HCI 400%


That's a lot of sleepless nights


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> does new strap give any advantages? lower voltages?
> do you choose strap with svid disabled or enabled?


My experience with a increase in bclk is for 24/7 overclock it's not good for gaming and some programs. For bench marks it does help increase some scores depending on overall stability.


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> with tWR at 12, try tWCl at 12 also. tRTP 4 should work too. Any small differences in AIDA membench can be cache or just w10 background services


it works! thank you!
differences were mainly due to mesh


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> does new strap give any advantages? lower voltages?
> do you choose strap with svid disabled or enabled?


Using the Gigabyte Gaming 9 I find the strap 125 totally stable. Voltages are similar, the extra 25MHz are rock solid at the same vcore.

The Gigabyte doesn't have a specific svid bios control, it is self regulated.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> it works! thank you!
> differences were mainly due to mesh


Nice bandwidth!!!

Your 7980xe seems to work happily with 32x or more...

How much cache voltage are u using???


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

thanks!
5000mhz 1.39 vcore 2.1 vrm
3300 mesh 1.160 vmesh
4000 16-17-16-38 1T ram 1.42 vram 1.15 vccio 1.175 vcsa +0.2 offset uncore voltage

i just set 1.15 and it pass all benchmarks with x33 including 500% memtest, linX, prime95, 3dmarks
so i add it to 1.16 to be sure
x34 is totaly unstable at any voltage, i give it up to 1.35 vmesh 2.2 vvrm +0.5 uncore - no way


----------



## done12many2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> thanks!
> 5000mhz 1.39 vcore 2.1 vrm
> 3300 mesh 1.160 vmesh
> 4000 16-17-16-38 1T ram 1.42 vram 1.15 vccio 1.175 vcsa +0.2 offset uncore voltage
> 
> i just set 1.15 and it pass all benchmarks with x33 including 500% memtest, linX, prime95, 3dmarks
> so i add it to 1.16 to be sure
> x34 is totaly unstable at any voltage, i give it up to 1.35 vmesh 2.2 vvrm +0.5 uncore - no way


What are you cooling a 5 GHz 7980XE (1.39v VCore and 2.1 VCCIN) with?


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *done12many2*
> 
> What are you cooling a 5 GHz 7980XE (1.39v VCore and 2.1 VCCIN) with?


its described here


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> it works! thank you!
> differences were mainly due to mesh


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> its described here


33x with 1.16v is great.

And your cooling system is awesome!!! xDDD

Enjoy your rig!!!










Would like to see some IBT's and Linx's at 5GHz with that monster!!!


----------



## roybotnik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Does anyone have experience with manual adjustment of these parameters?
> ODT WR
> ODT PARK
> ODT NOM
> 
> I mean the experience in general. Not for specific mainboard.
> 
> Helped to set a higher clock?, "loosening" gave more space to the OC without raising the voltage.E.t.c.


Yea, they control termination resistance on the memory and the usage of each depends on whether you're reading, writing, etc. I had to tweak them on my AMD build to get my dual rank kit full stable at 3200 without needing any extra DRAM or IMC voltage. By loosening them I assume that means you increased the values, which means that the resistance is increased which could explain increased OC range since it could reduce signal reflection.


----------



## roybotnik

Going for some decent 24/7 settings with my 8700K and Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7. TridentZ 3200 C14 2x8GB @ 3600 1.4V, VCCIO 1.15V, VCCSA 1.25V.

I've passed a bunch of 400%+ tests while tweaking subtimings. Seems like I could probably go higher than 3600, but I think I'll stick with this for now.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> No.
> That's a lot of sleepless nights


Ehhh was not my main rig.

3866Mhz cl16 tight took some time to work out at first. 4000Mhz cl16 loose was super easy first run passed and i probably used more vdimm than needed and 4000Mhz CL17 tight was pretty easy as well just had to dial in the vdimm voltage.


----------



## lightsout

Are you guys using memtest to tighten timings or do I need to go back to stressing the CPU as well.

I have my 5820k at 4.3/1.2 volts. Nothing special but I am happy for now. I am hoping to tighten up the timings of my ram although I am not expecting much since I bought standard LPX 3200/16.


Do you guys have any recommendations on what will help the most to tighten on these? My OCD wants it to be 3200 16-16-16, but I have not played with timings yet.


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Are you guys using memtest to tighten timings or do I need to go back to stressing the CPU as well.
> 
> I have my 5820k at 4.3/1.2 volts. Nothing special but I am happy for now. I am hoping to tighten up the timings of my ram although I am not expecting much since I bought standard LPX 3200/16.
> 
> 
> Do you guys have any recommendations on what will help the most to tighten on these? My OCD wants it to be 3200 16-16-16, but I have not played with timings yet.


3200 C16-16-16-34 1T should be pretty standard for hw-e. Set vram to 1.85, vsa 1.05v and vcache to 1.20v. This should get you hci memtest stable to 1000%.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Are you guys using memtest to tighten timings or do I need to go back to stressing the CPU as well.
> 
> I have my 5820k at 4.3/1.2 volts. Nothing special but I am happy for now. I am hoping to tighten up the timings of my ram although I am not expecting much since I bought standard LPX 3200/16.
> 
> 
> Do you guys have any recommendations on what will help the most to tighten on these? My OCD wants it to be 3200 16-16-16, but I have not played with timings yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 3200 C16-16-16-34 1T should be pretty standard for hw-e. Set vram to 1.85, vsa 1.05v and vcache to 1.20v. This should get you hci memtest stable to 1000%.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I haven't heard of VRAM voltage but I assume you didn't mean DRAM since it's so high. I will give it a try in the morning. Thanks again.


----------



## chibi

Sorry, yes 1.85v dram was definitely a typo. 1.385 - 1.40v should stabilize it.


----------



## ogider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roybotnik*
> 
> Yea, they control termination resistance on the memory.....


Yea.
Question is.
Can we noticed "perfomance hit"?.Or playing with this can lead to damage modules?
I have set arround 120-80 ODT and I could drop VCCIO and SA arround 0.04V. DDR4 Voltage -0.03V...For 4133 CL 16-16-16 36-360 CR1.


----------



## becks

DRAM Guru's ...

In this picture of mine:



Shouldn't tFAW be = 4x tRRD (_L & _S) ? or = tWR + tRRD ?


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> DRAM Guru's ...
> 
> In this picture of mine:
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't tFAW be = 4x tRRD (_L & _S) ? or = tWR + tRRD ?


The smaller one _S

Refer to post by [email protected], http://www.overclock.net/t/1569364/official-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread/610#post_24851753


----------



## becks

What about tWR and tFAW ...

I am right in saying for stability tFAW shouldn't be under 30 ? (TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR)
Where do we get the tWR number... my RAM defaults at anywhere from 17 to 25....(TWR=TRTP+TCL Or TRTP+TRCD)

And than tCWL = between 12-16 ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> What about tWR and tFAW ...
> 
> I am right in saying for stability tFAW shouldn't be under 30 ? (TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR)
> Where do we get the tWR number... my RAM defaults at anywhere from 17 to 25....(TWR=TRTP+TCL Or TRTP+TRCD)
> 
> And than tCWL = between 12-16 ?


tFAW can be set to 4x RRD (or RRD_s) So if RRD is 4, FAW can be as low as 16.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


So determined to get this ram working







...
The more I learn the easier the road ....been 2 weeks now into this RAM oc madness...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> So determined to get this ram working
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> The more I learn the easier the road ....been 2 weeks now into this RAM oc madness...


it can be a chase down the rabbit hole.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it can be a chase down the rabbit hole.


Hopefully he won't run into the Queen like I did ...


----------



## Jpmboy

"Don't come around here no more" - in memory, TP


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it can be a chase down the rabbit hole.


At least the OS is easy to reinstall....


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> At least the OS is easy to reinstall....


Hopefully you have a backup image ...


----------



## Testier

Hello guys, I am running this kit (F4-3000C14Q-64GTZR) at 3600mhz 16-18-18-38-1t right now. I want to ideally tighten it to 16-16-16-36, what are some tertiary timing I need to adjust with that?

Thanks


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Hopefully you have a backup image ...


Na I'd rather format and install fresh. I don't have anything but stress testing and bench mark apps right now. This platform has been good to me so far no reinstalls (rabbit holes) necessary knock on wood.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Hello guys, I am running this kit (F4-3000C14Q-64GTZR) at 3600mhz 16-18-18-38-1t right now. I want to ideally tighten it to 16-16-16-36, what are some tertiary timing I need to adjust with that?
> 
> Thanks


Start at page 500 and read forward tons of information about your question. Need more information on your machine like all your hardware. Rig builder would be a good place to start.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Start at page 500 and read forward tons of information about your question. Need more information on your machine like all your hardware. Rig builder would be a good place to start.


I see. .

My problem is mostly because I am using dual ranked memory on a 4x16gb configuration. I have filled out the rig builder a bit, let me know what further info you require.

Thanks


----------



## becks

Hmm... Just did a bit of "slot" binning... and all my secondaries dropped quite a bit on Auto now..

Will try to push further and see what I can obtain at 5.1 CPU / 4.8 Cache...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Are you guys using memtest to tighten timings or do I need to go back to stressing the CPU as well.
> 
> I have my 5820k at 4.3/1.2 volts. Nothing special but I am happy for now. I am hoping to tighten up the timings of my ram although I am not expecting much since I bought standard LPX 3200/16.
> 
> 
> Do you guys have any recommendations on what will help the most to tighten on these? My OCD wants it to be 3200 16-16-16, but I have not played with timings yet.


If only adjusting memory timings and no other settings, then retesting with the tests in the OP should be more than enough. First port of call should be aiming for Command rate 1, and lowering tRCD and tRP


----------



## KedarWolf

128GB (8x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX at 3200MHZ , Strix X99 motherboard, 5960X CPU at 4.7GHZ, 4.4 cache.

Will boot into Windows and show my CPU-Z and ASRock RAM Configurator screens with AIDA64 cache and memory test.


----------



## Unknownm

does anyone have information on tRDRD, tWRWR, tWRRD timings?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 128GB (8x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX at 3200MHZ , Strix X99 motherboard, 5960X CPU at 4.7GHZ, 4.4 cache.
> 
> Will boot into Windows and show my CPU-Z and ASRock RAM Configurator screens with AIDA64 cache and memory test.


Added.















Below passes GSAT one hour. Timings one notch lower to 13-14-13-25 2T get a Linux boot error.


----------



## Asus11

so ive decided to stay at 3733cl15

now I need help with secondary timings, I would like to know which ones to start lowering first then test then lower etc etc

figures of how low is great too











much appreciated!


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


Looking at your auto values your set is way better binned than mine








Leaving the jealousy apart ...

Try and lower tRFC to 300ish... try 328 than go up to 376 if it fails
And Triple or if fail double tREFI ... that should net you very good gains in bandwidth and lower latency.

While doing so imput RTL' and IO-L's down..or they might shift up if left on AUTO.

So...: RTL (CHA) DO and RTL (CHB) DO and IO-L (CHA) D0 & IO-L (CHB) D0... leave D1's on AUTO

If you manage the above let me know and I have some more things that you can push.

Best of luck

EDIT:

For common knowledge can we have your CPU and Dram V & details please....

Also I might suggest.... Make it C16 (16-16-16-34/36-1t) and test bandwidth.. for me is nearly the same (within margin of error)...so the extra V and headache not worth it..


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Looking at your auto values your set is way better binned than mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leaving the jealousy apart ...
> 
> Try and lower tRFC to 300ish... try 328 than go up to 376 if it fails
> And Triple or if fail double tREFI ... that should net you very good gains in bandwidth and lower latency.
> 
> While doing so imput RTL' and IO-L's down..or they might shift up if left on AUTO.
> 
> So...: RTL (CHA) DO and RTL (CHB) DO and IO-L (CHA) D0 & IO-L (CHB) D0... leave D1's on AUTO
> 
> If you manage the above let me know and I have some more things that you can push.
> 
> Best of luck
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> For common knowledge can we have your CPU and Dram V & details please....
> 
> Also I might suggest.... Make it C16 (16-16-16-34/36-1t) and test bandwidth.. for me is nearly the same (within margin of error)...so the extra V and headache not worth it..


Thanks









my CPU is 1.36v 48 core 40 cache ( going to up cache once ram oc is 100% done )

Dram 1.45v I/O is 1.1875v SA 1.2v


----------



## roybotnik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> Yea.
> Question is.
> Can we noticed "perfomance hit"?.Or playing with this can lead to damage modules?
> I have set arround 120-80 ODT and I could drop VCCIO and SA arround 0.04V. DDR4 Voltage -0.03V...For 4133 CL 16-16-16 36-360 CR1.


No, it won't adversely affect performance unless it's set to something wrong. I have RttPark set to 240ohms (max) on my Ryzen system and it gives me almost exactly 50GB/s for read, write, and copy bandwidth every single AIDA64 run. The modules are designed to work this way, they just need to match the driver and signal line impedance and I presume that the training is not as accurate at very high speeds.

I played around with this for the first time on this board and it allowed me to drop my voltage to 1.35V at 3600 15-15-15-35-320 CR1. Passed 500% HCI, woo.


Spoiler: 3600 C15 1.35V


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Looking at your auto values your set is way better binned than mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leaving the jealousy apart ...
> 
> Try and lower tRFC to 300ish... try 328 than go up to 376 if it fails
> And Triple or if fail double tREFI ... that should net you very good gains in bandwidth and lower latency.
> 
> While doing so imput RTL' and IO-L's down..or they might shift up if left on AUTO.
> 
> So...: RTL (CHA) DO and RTL (CHB) DO and IO-L (CHA) D0 & IO-L (CHB) D0... leave D1's on AUTO
> 
> If you manage the above let me know and I have some more things that you can push.
> 
> Best of luck
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> For common knowledge can we have your CPU and Dram V & details please....
> 
> Also I might suggest.... Make it C16 (16-16-16-34/36-1t) and test bandwidth.. for me is nearly the same (within margin of error)...so the extra V and headache not worth it..


I just did what you said to & it booted which is always a good sign lol.. don't think its a placebo effect but dam everything feels so buttery fast

in the bios, I forgot what I got myself into so I just inputted everything that was on auto to the number it stated to the left just in case I left any out lol


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


53198 MB/S copy and 38.1 Latency definitely feel snappy!

Get this stable than I have some more suggestions


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> 53198 MB/S copy and 38.1 Latency definitely feel snappy!
> 
> Get this stable than I have some more suggestions


ok great stuff I will use the computer with these settings today then overnight test HCI ? unless you have a better idea of finding unstable memory faster?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


Usually I put my laptop on the desk and do my things while the PC grinds Memtest
If you'r way off it will trow you an error in the first 5%-45% (which is like 1 hour max...)

If you'r very close it will either error after 180% or in the first 5%-25% with "less or not equal to <8"

at least that's how it goes for me.

Take into consideration maybe an hour of Prime non avx with small ftt (1344 - 1344) to check if the new OC did not trowed your cache/cpu off...

EDIT: Prime version 26.6

I never once had a RAM OC which did not error in the first 250% error after that....


----------



## Jpmboy

big table update! thx Scone.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


By the way... do you have your tRDWR's set manually in BIOS ? or what kind of sorcery is that...mine auto's at 30+ ..around 34-35 with most primaries dialled in...


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> By the way... do you have your tRDWR's set manually in BIOS ? or what kind of sorcery is that...mine auto's at 30+ ..around 34-35 with most primaries dialled in...


I don't think I have anything on auto what I couldn't change so everything is manually inputted what I could change, same values as before I didn't change the actual number just transferred auto into what was displayed

ok just done 200% with the advice earlier


----------



## mouacyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> does anyone have information on tRDRD, tWRWR, tWRRD timings?


My stable settings for DDR3 2666Mhz
http://www.overclock.net/t/1490324/the-intel-devils-canyon-owners-club/22150#post_26296704

tRDRD -> Lower towards 4
tWRRD -> Lower towards 4
tWRWR -> Seems like this is best somewhere round TFAW, so start there and raise if unstable

Asus Z87 Overclocking Guide -- See Third Timing section:
https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/maximus-vi-series-uefi-guide-for-overclocking/#


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I just did what you said to & it booted which is always a good sign lol.. don't think its a placebo effect but dam everything feels so buttery fast
> 
> in the bios, I forgot what I got myself into so I just inputted everything that was on auto to the number it stated to the left just in case I left any out lol
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Remember cas+trcd=trtp=tras. So set your trtp to 6, trrd_L to 6, trrd to 6, twtr_L to 10 tfaw to 20 and tcwl 12. Post another screen shot of your ASRock Timming Conf. You need to get your IOL's and RLT's aligned.


----------



## lexer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> My stable settings for DDR3 2666Mhz
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1490324/the-intel-devils-canyon-owners-club/22150#post_26296704
> 
> tRDRD -> Lower towards 4
> tWRRD -> Lower towards 4
> tWRWR -> Seems like this is best somewhere round TFAW, so start there and raise if unstable
> 
> Asus Z87 Overclocking Guide -- See Third Timing section:
> https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/maximus-vi-series-uefi-guide-for-overclocking/#


Thanks for sharing that. I can't make my Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3 2400 @ 2666 Mhz stable, probably i can test some of those settings

Sorry for offtopic


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Remember cas+trcd=trtp=tras. So set your trtp to 6, trrd_L to 6, trrd to 6, twtr_L to 10 tfaw to 20 and tcwl 12. Post another screen shot of your ASRock Timming Conf. You need to get your IOL's and RLT's aligned.


I have only changed tREFI & tRFC



EDIT:

I just tried trtp to 6, trrd_L to 6, trrd to 6, twtr_L to 10 tfaw to 20 and tcwl 12

the PC does not want to boot, throws code 41 , I gave it more juice dram/io/sa still would not boot with them settings


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I just did what you said to & it booted which is always a good sign lol.. don't think its a placebo effect but dam everything feels so buttery fast
> 
> in the bios, I forgot what I got myself into so I just inputted everything that was on auto to the number it stated to the left just in case I left any out lol
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember cas+trcd=trtp=tras. So set your trtp to 6, trrd_L to 6, trrd to 6, twtr_L to 10 tfaw to 20 and tcwl 12. Post another screen shot of your ASRock Timming Conf. You need to get your IOL's and RLT's aligned.
Click to expand...

Any suggestions for my 5960x timings?

Won't do 1T, it's an old dual sided 128GB kit.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I have only changed tREFI & tRFC
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> I just tried trtp to 6, trrd_L to 6, trrd to 6, twtr_L to 10 tfaw to 20 and tcwl 12
> 
> the PC does not want to boot, throws code 41 , I gave it more juice dram/io/sa still would not boot with them settings


Try [email protected] only and see if it boots.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Any suggestions for my 5960x timings?
> 
> Won't do 1T, it's an old dual sided 128GB kit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


128 gb is tough. You have done a great job. I would try [email protected] and [email protected] 1T. Just for grins.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Try [email protected] only and see if it boots.


I just done it but in asrock timing config or memtweakit it still shows 10 instead of 6, I double checked bios twice it has been changed to 6 but shows 10 in programs


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I just done it but in asrock timing config or memtweakit it still shows 10 instead of 6, I double checked bios twice it has been changed to 6 but shows 10 in programs


How do your rlt's and iol's look? What are your voltages ie: vsa, vccio and vdimm?


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> How do your rlt's and iol's look?


you know on old alienware pcs of the side of the case with all the alienware language that is what you are talking to me in right now... JK









well everything is the same as in the timing config I posted the only thing I have changed is the tREFI, tRFC & the tRTP just

I did however change all the autos on the bios to the number they already had to the left? I don't know if that would make a difference


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I just done it but in asrock timing config or memtweakit it still shows 10 instead of 6, I double checked bios twice it has been changed to 6 but shows 10 in programs


Had this problem a page or 2 back...where the MB auto corrects values entered in BIOS still can't figure out why...

Try what @CptSpig said earlier but raise RTL's to 57-65-57(or 58 if fails)-65-6-4-6-4

Also try and put tCWL 12 or 14....or if all fails 15....

But I honestly think we jumped to far ahead with all this info and you should only do things in turn...1 or 2 at a time
Finish with tRFC and tREFI than try and do the rest









EDIT: For my...and on the bios I am.... numbers on left do not reflect at all at what Auto values I am in OS...
They are more there like...XMP..
It's hard to explain what I want to say..sorry my first language is not English..

So if I leave everything on auto..i see maybe 6-7-573-12-10 (etc) and If I check BIOS on left..I see totally different numbers


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Had this problem a page or 2 back...where the MB auto corrects values entered in BIOS still can't figure out why...
> 
> Try what @CptSpig said earlier but raise RTL's to 57-65-57(or 58 if fails)-65-6-4-6-4
> 
> Also try and put tCWL 12 or 14....or if all fails 15....
> 
> But I honestly think we jumped to far ahead with all this info and you should only do things in turn...1 or 2 at a time
> Finish with tRFC and tREFI than try and do the rest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: For my...and on the bios I am.... numbers on left do not reflect at all at what Auto values I am in OS...
> They are more there like...XMP..
> It's hard to explain what I want to say..sorry my first language is not English..
> 
> So if I leave everything on auto..i see maybe 6-7-573-12-10 (etc) and If I check BIOS on left..I see totally different numbers


I will check my bios again right now

what I would like to know is.. which figures gives the best benefits ?

for example if low tRAS low tRFC high tREFI give best benefits shouldn't we try to get these the best numbers first then work on the rest? like working cpu core then cache next or does that not work with ram?

what im trying to say is which timings etc give the best benefits then the rest are like polish up numbers?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


From my own Findings...so I might be wrong or it might not be Rule..for everyone

Low tRAS - tRFC and high tREFI in combination with Low and Aligned (55-55-6-6)RTL's and IO-L's will net you bandwidth..

The rest give you gains... but only seen in benchmarks and even there marginal.

But yet again..if you look on HWBOT at any class (CPU/RAM/GPU) isn't the difference between 1st and 50th spot marginal ?


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I will check my bios again right now
> 
> what I would like to know is.. which figures gives the best benefits ?
> 
> for example if low tRAS low tRFC high tREFI give best benefits shouldn't we try to get these the best numbers first then work on the rest? like working cpu core then cache next or does that not work with ram?
> 
> what im trying to say is which timings etc give the best benefits then the rest are like polish up numbers?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> From my own Findings...so I might be wrong or it might not be Rule..for everyone
> 
> Low tRAS - tRFC and high tREFI in combination with Low and Aligned (55-55-6-6)RTL's and IO-L's will net you bandwidth..
> 
> The rest give you gains... but only seen in benchmarks and even there marginal.
> 
> But yet again..if you look on HWBOT at any class (CPU/RAM/GPU) isn't the difference between 1st and 50th spot marginal ?


You need to leave everything on auto and only change one or two things at a time. When you change one or two things it effects the things that are on auto. Remember cas+trcd+trtp=tras +/- 2 once you get everything the way you like it and your iol's and rlt's are not aligning you can adjust your voltages and see if this works.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*


You giving a hint there and I don't understand it quite well...

You saying I shouldn't be trying to align RTL's and IO-L's ?

Would it be better with some spacing ? 55-57-6-6 or 55-57-7-7 ?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I will check my bios again right now
> 
> what I would like to know is.. which figures gives the best benefits ?
> 
> for example if low tRAS low tRFC high tREFI give best benefits shouldn't we try to get these the best numbers first then work on the rest? like working cpu core then cache next or does that not work with ram?
> 
> what im trying to say is which timings etc give the best benefits then the rest are like polish up numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> From my own Findings...so I might be wrong or it might not be Rule..for everyone
> 
> Low tRAS - tRFC and high tREFI in combination with Low and Aligned (55-55-6-6)RTL's and IO-L's will net you bandwidth..
> 
> The rest give you gains... but only seen in benchmarks and even there marginal.
> 
> But yet again..if you look on HWBOT at any class (CPU/RAM/GPU) isn't the difference between 1st and 50th spot marginal ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to leave everything on auto and only change one or two things at a time. When you change one or two things it effects the things that are on auto. Remember cas+trcd+trtp=tras +/- 2 once you get everything the way you like it and your iol's and rlt's are not aligning you can adjust your voltages and see if this works.
Click to expand...

I need to put my secondaries etc. on Auto as I changed from 16-18-18-36 2T to 14-15-14-27 2T and see how they adjust, then manually set them.

I had set them with the earlier timings.









Unless i'm unstable after, then I revert back.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> You giving a hint there and I don't understand it quite well...
> 
> You saying I shouldn't be trying to align RTL's and IO-L's ?
> 
> Would it be better with some spacing ? 55-57-6-6 or 55-57-7-7 ?


No, you need to get a stable overclock first and usually your rlt's and iol's will align. If not you can add voltage to vdimm or vsa and that will get them aligned most of the time. This is what you want see below when done. This is primary's, secondary's and third timings done manually.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> No, you need to get a stable overclock first and usually your rlt's and iol's will align. If not you can add voltage to vdimm or vsa and that will get them aligned most of the time. This is what you want see below when done. This is primary's, secondary's and third timings done manually.


I see...

Maybe it works for people with good binned ram's like you and @Asus11 ... but if I leave them on Auto they go all over the place...and even if I pass 1000% HCI I have low bandwidth results till I force them manually..


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> You need to leave everything on auto and only change one or two things at a time. When you change one or two things it effects the things that are on auto. Remember cas+trcd+trtp=tras +/- 2 once you get everything the way you like it and your iol's and rlt's are not aligning you can adjust your voltages and see if this works.


the system seems really snappy and stable as it is but im going to put everything back to auto and start again, what are the main things to give the most gains? so I can start on those first


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> the system seems really snappy and stable as it is but im going to put everything back to auto and start again, what are the main things to give the most gains? so I can start on those first


Best thing to do is clear c'mos and overclock your CPU first. CPU has some impact on your memory. Manually set primary timings to stock for your kit and test. Leave on CR2 now start to lower you primary timings cas and trcd and test. Now plat with trp and test. Then I set CR to 1 and test. Now your ready for tras...cas+trcd+trtp = tras +/-2 test. Check your IOL's and RTL's if they are good than start manually tuning secondary timings and so on...the key is patience.







After memory is done than you can overclock cashe/ring/mesh.


----------



## Jawnathin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Best thing to do is clear c'mos and overclock your CPU first. CPU has some impact on your memory. Manually set primary timings to stock for your kit and test. Leave on CR2 now start to lower you primary timings cas and trcd and test. Now plat with trp and test. Then I set CR to 1 and test. Now your ready for tras...cas+trcd+trtp = tras +/-2 test. Check your IOL's and RTL's if they are good than start manually tuning secondary timings and so on...the key is patience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After memory is done than you can overclock cashe/ring/mesh.


Great advice, thanks. Can't wait to get my 7820x back from the delid so I can start tuning again.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Best thing to do is clear c'mos and overclock your CPU first. CPU has some impact on your memory. Manually set primary timings to stock for your kit and test. Leave on CR2 now start to lower you primary timings cas and trcd and test. Now plat with trp and test. Then I set CR to 1 and test. Now your ready for tras...cas+trcd+trtp = tras +/-2 test. Check your IOL's and RTL's if they are good than start manually tuning secondary timings and so on...the key is patience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After memory is done than you can overclock cashe/ring/mesh.


I've had my CPU for nearly 2 years and tried nearly every bios and overclock, my max is 4.9 but I keep it at 4.8 because the extra voltage for 4.9 isn't worth the extra heat atm 1.36v for 4.8 around 1.44v for 4.9
I might though in the end try 4.9 as it may have its benefits because it needs extra voltage it should allow me to run higher cache, currently at 40.

my max ram limit for 24/7 is 1.5v my kit I think can do 3733 CL14 but probably needs close to 1.6v, at 1.45v though I can do 3733CL15, this is not final when I get it 100% done I will try lower volts and test until I get the lowest stable volts

so heres where Im at 3733CL15 1.45v 15-15-15-35 1T .. I see some people running low tRAS for example 30 with my other timings ?

seriously I have not much of an idea about all these secondaries but when I lowered tRFC & tripled tREFI I noticed good gains, tRTP 6 then? I need a guide or something


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> does anyone have information on tRDRD, tWRWR, tWRRD timings?
> 
> 
> 
> My stable settings for DDR3 2666Mhz
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1490324/the-intel-devils-canyon-owners-club/22150#post_26296704
> 
> tRDRD -> Lower towards 4
> tWRRD -> Lower towards 4
> tWRWR -> Seems like this is best somewhere round TFAW, so start there and raise if unstable
> 
> Asus Z87 Overclocking Guide -- See Third Timing section:
> https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/maximus-vi-series-uefi-guide-for-overclocking/#
Click to expand...

Thanks it turns out my memory bandwidth drop (you remember this from devil canyon thread) was from those 3 settings. tRDRD @ 5 causes 10GB drop in bandwidth while tWRRD/WRWR cause 1GB lower write/copy bandwidth. If i keep 4/4/18 or 20 the bandwidth stays on any DRAM speed









Thank god it isn't a faulty IMC or weird z97 motherboard


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I've had my CPU for nearly 2 years and tried nearly every bios and overclock, my max is 4.9 but I keep it at 4.8 because the extra voltage for 4.9 isn't worth the extra heat atm 1.36v for 4.8 around 1.44v for 4.9
> I might though in the end try 4.9 as it may have its benefits because it needs extra voltage it should allow me to run higher cache, currently at 40.
> 
> my max ram limit for 24/7 is 1.5v my kit I think can do 3733 CL14 but probably needs close to 1.6v, at 1.45v though I can do 3733CL15, this is not final when I get it 100% done I will try lower volts and test until I get the lowest stable volts
> 
> so heres where Im at 3733CL15 1.45v 15-15-15-35 1T .. I see some people running low tRAS for example 30 with my other timings ?
> 
> seriously I have not much of an idea about all these secondaries but when I lowered tRFC & tripled tREFI I noticed good gains, tRTP 6 then? I need a guide or something


Are you overclocking for bench marks or for 24/7 stability? What I showed you was my 24/7 OC for memory.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Are you overclocking for bench marks or for 24/7 stability? What I showed you was my 24/7 OC for memory.


so I did some fault finding, everything back to auto.. then started again with the ram

I noticed I can do everything you said expect for tCWL 12, when I enter 12 it does not want to boot at all and throws an error here is what I got now

im overclocking for max 24/7 getting every bit of performance out the computer









heres where im at.. tCWL @ 13 is stock I noticed becks said to try 12 or 14 if not 15, is this number better higher or lower anyway I appreciate your help im one step closer









is tCWL ideal at 12, what is stopping me? volts? I don't mind going up to 1.5v


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> so I did some fault finding, everything back to auto.. then started again with the ram
> 
> I noticed I can do everything you said expect for tCWL 12, when I enter 12 it does not want to boot at all and throws an error here is what I got now
> 
> im overclocking for max 24/7 getting every bit of performance out the computer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heres where im at.. tCWL @ 13 is stock I noticed becks said to try 12 or 14 if not 15, is this number better higher or lower anyway I appreciate your help im one step closer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is tCWL ideal at 12, what is stopping me? volts? I don't mind going up to 1.5v
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


12 is a starting point so 13 is good for tcwl.







Play with vsa to see if you can get that last RLT DO to 55. Straight 15 CR1 is the bomb!


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> 12 is a starting point so 13 is good for tcwl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Play with vsa to see if you can get that last RLT DO to 55. Straight 15 CR1 is the bomb!


thanks









do you see anything I could lower before I tackle RTL / IO-L


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do you see anything I could lower before I tackle RTL / IO-L


Looks pretty good. I would see if @Jpmboyor @Silent Scone would take a peek.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> You giving a hint there and I don't understand it quite well...
> 
> You saying I shouldn't be trying to align RTL's and IO-L's ?
> 
> Would it be better with some spacing ? 55-57-6-6 or 55-57-7-7 ?


ideally the rtls will scale with frequency when set to auto and training is enabled. My x299 seems to have a chA that is much better than the other 3 and can run much lower rtls and iols. forcing this to the same value as slots 2-4 fails to boot. but 57-59-59-59 is fine and stable - and what auto results in.
tWCL can drive the RTLs so, tune primaries first before attempting to adjust RTLs. Some boards just have a mind of their own when you are hitting the limits.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ideally the rtls will scale with frequency when set to auto and training is enabled. My x299 seems to have a chA that is much better than the other 3 and can run much lower rtls and iols. forcing this to the same value as slots 2-4 fails to boot. but 57-59-59-59 is fine and stable - and what auto results in.
> tWCL can drive the RTLs so, tune primaries first before attempting to adjust RTLs. Some boards just have a mind of their own when you are hitting the limits.


could you take a look at this jpm



ive been messing around, I hope it looks okay! want the best numbers I can get

tRAS can go lower btw maybe tRTC aswell? not tried yet







oh btw tCWL wont do 12


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


Ohh... this rabbit hole








Getting closer and closer... just had 3 consecutive runs 140%...150%...235%... hopefully the 4th is gold ..will check it tomorrow after leaving it overnight..

Off topic: was running full manual on the CPU v wise...
Now I switched to some "economic" preset...and while my CPU indeed drops at 800 hz / 0.799v on Idle...I have noticed 2 things...
First in AIDA OSD cache never really goes up to 4.8 (what is set in BIOS) as before when it was full Auto and stays more between 4.6-4.7 (while stress testing with Memtest)
And Second...before (all manual V - 1.430 all the time) when I use to hit start on the memtest launcher it would launch instantly all 8 instances....now with the new preset where CPU and V go up and down...it takes a good 8-10 second for the 8 windows to launch...

Haven't had the chance to test this "latency" with any other program...have you encountered something similar before ? any suggestion ? (C-step or whatever is called is disabled, only speedstep and turbo enable...IA AC & DC are 0.01 and Long Package Power Limit and Short Package Power Limit are on Max - wanted to be able to supply max possible "juice" to the CPU and VRM)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*


Hey,

From @Jpmboy post above...
Quote:


> tWCL can drive the RTLs so, tune primaries first before attempting to adjust RTLs. Some boards just have a mind of their own when you are hitting the limits.


So maybe put RTL's and IO-L's on AUTO ? and if they are already on AUTO ...maybe force them lower/higher to force the change in tWCL and "fix" the board auto correct of that value...

EDIT: Or wait till I get to that part myself...than I will try some combinations I have in my head and maybe figure it out haha


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Hey,
> 
> From @Jpmboy post above...
> So maybe put RTL's and IO-L's on AUTO ? and if they are already on AUTO ...maybe force them lower/higher to force the change in tWCL and "fix" the board auto correct of that value...
> 
> EDIT: Or wait till I get to that part myself...than I will try some combinations I have in my head and maybe figure it out haha


all the RTL IO-L is on auto now because when I put them on auto tRTP actually changed before it didnt when they wasnt on auto

anyway.. ive dialed back as I don't want to jump to far in, ill be testing this tonight, hopefully everything passes



yes im spamming with pictures again


----------



## pion

Umm...
Why does it suddenly say that I'm on 3466 Mhz both in BIOS and Windows,
when i set it at 3866 or 3600?

And is it normal to mess up your timings when you plug in an m.2 ssd?


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> all the RTL IO-L is on auto now because when I put them on auto tRTP actually changed before it didnt when they wasnt on auto
> 
> anyway.. ive dialed back as I don't want to jump to far in, ill be testing this tonight, hopefully everything passes
> 
> 
> 
> yes im spamming with pictures again


Try this


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> could you take a look at this jpm
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ive been messing around, I hope it looks okay! want the best numbers I can get
> 
> tRAS can go lower btw maybe tRTC aswell? not tried yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh btw tCWL wont do 12


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> all the RTL IO-L is on auto now because when I put them on auto tRTP actually changed before it didnt when they wasnt on auto
> 
> anyway.. ive dialed back as I don't want to jump to far in, ill be testing this tonight, hopefully everything passes
> 
> [i
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> mg]http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/3151689/[/img]
> 
> 
> yes im spamming with pictures again


I really don't think you can squeeze more out of those double sided 16GB sticks. I'd take it as a win and tune up the rest of the system.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Try this
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


with 16GB DS sticks? worth an attempted boot at least. May need to loosen to 2T


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Try this


I will give it a go tomorrow







right now I want to make sure them numbers are stable
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I really don't think you can squeeze more out of those double sided 16GB sticks. I'd take it as a win and tune up the rest of the system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with 16GB DS sticks? worth an attempted boot at least. May need to loosen to 2T


Jpm I literally just inputted numbers out of thin air that I think should be okay from reading this thread & taking some advice, personally I feel like im maybe 25% done









I know this is beating me up but I don't think im quite done yet


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I will give it a go tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> right now I want to make sure them numbers are stable
> 
> Jpm I literally just inputted numbers out of thin air that I think should be okay from reading this thread & taking some advice, personally I feel like im maybe 25% done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is beating me up but I don't think im quite done yet


just be sure to have a good image of your system available, as you go deeper into the rabbit hole.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> just be sure to have a good image of your system available, as you go deeper into the rabbit hole.


I don't think Becks and Asus11 have expearanced the rabbit hole. If they keep just putting arbitrary numbers in it will come sooner than later.


----------



## KedarWolf

Booting into Windows for RAM Configurator and AIDA64 cache and memory test.

I'm really happy with the timings and test results.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*


I think I been there...
Spent almost 3 weeks now on this RAM OC...
Been trough ups and downs...
Had to reinstall OS couple of times... so getting there..

At the same time I don't think I will or I don't think I want to go down and set everything on manual...
If I nail it down as it is ...I'm more than happy..

I managed as it is now (16-16-16-34-1t) to obtain More than double bandwidth (54/55-57/58-51/52 MB/s) from XMP/Default RAM values while on the same level of latency (under 39 ms) and Increased my L1-L3 cache bandwidth by more than 70 GB/S...

For 24/7 that's more than enough for me..I wanted those 5 extra FPS from RAM and I think i got more close to +10...
And if history is to repeat and I will keep this config for the next 8-10 years like I did with my Core 2 Quad these "conservative" and not pushed to the max settings will definitely help

For this OC i need more or less 1.435 v with 1.18 / 1.21 IO and 1.18 / 1.20 SA .. (getting 1 error further and further as I slowly tweak V ....200% +)
More or less 1 setting away from stable...


----------



## pion

I just cleared CMOS and set it up at 3733.
But again it shows up as lower in BIOS and Windows.
3333 this time. What is going on here?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> I just cleared CMOS and set it up at 3733.
> But again it shows up as lower in BIOS and Windows.
> 3333 this time. What is going on here?


Hey...

Can you give more info on your system please...
MB
CPU
RAM
GPU or GPU's ?

Also you have an option BCLK in bios can you tell us what's that at ? 100 ? 200? auto ? 100:133? (BCLK Freq and BCLK Freq: Dram Freq Ratio)


----------



## pion

Gigabyt z370 Gaming 7
8700k
(47x, unc 40x 1.27V, VcoreLLC turbo, IA AC/DC loadline set both to 1,
VCCIO 1.2 VCCSA 1.2, Disable Power Management & VT-d settings)
2x16 Ripjaws V 3200C14
BCLK = 100?
Dram Freq Ratio=auto?

no GPU
...
seasonic prime ultra 850
fractal design celsius s24
samsung 960 pro 512


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*


And you tried XMP ? All fine with XMP on ?
You are on last bios F4a ?

Also check here if your m.2 is in the list : here

Also I see no 32Gb Kits included in their memory compatibility list...
And make sure you use the right combination of RAM slots (DDR4_1 - DDR4_2)


----------



## pion

XMP was fine.
And it was ok until yesterday.
Had 3866C17...

Have them in correct slots
SSD compatible

well... these are supported
G.SKILL 16GB 2Rx8 F4-3600C17Q-64GTZ DS 17-19-19-39 1.35v v v v v 2133


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> XMP was fine.


Do this...Enter Bios --> Load Default --> Save and exit --> Go to OS --> Shut down --> Clear CMOS --> Boot to BIOS -- Re-Flash BIOS to the latest --> After Re-Flash let it boot into OS --> Restart --> Leave all CPU-side of things default --> Load XMP --> Boot OS check everything fine --> Restart ---> Put in ONLY RAM OC! (the 3866C17 you had before) --> Boot OS and check if all fine -->Restart --> Now set CPU...

Let me know how it goes...

Please don't take my words as insulting, but rather as a opinion... Why have you went with Gigabit ?! for less money you could'v bought ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING which in my opinion is way better (has even 8x16Gb 14-14-14-34 at 1.2v in their compatibility list...here), and cheaper...here in the UK at least...


----------



## pion

Highest G.Skill with 16gb modules is the same:
G.SKILL
F4-3600C17Q-64GTZ
64GB(16GB*4)
DS
17-19-19-39
1.35V
●
●

Did have the -E ordered at first.
But went with the recommendations.
Ordered both the gaming 7 and the Hero.
Turned out the Hero didn't have Wifi as described so I took the Gaming 7.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> I just cleared CMOS and set it up at 3733.
> But again it shows up as lower in BIOS and Windows.
> 3333 this time. What is going on here?


please fill out rig builder and add your rig to your signature block so we know what gear you are working with.


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Do this...


Set it to 3866C17
And again... 3466


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Set it to 3866C17
> And again... 3466


And you followed all the steps I said ? and did not skipped any ?...

In that case I would send the MB to warranty honestly...


----------



## pion

Followed all the steps.

EDIT:
Managed to get 3733C16 to run as defined..
But even 3866C20 gave me lower. But now 3733 :/


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 
> 
> Booting into Windows for RAM Configurator and AIDA64 cache and memory test.
> 
> I'm really happy with the timings and test results.


Looks really good nice job.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I think I been there...
> Spent almost 3 weeks now on this RAM OC...
> Been trough ups and downs...
> Had to reinstall OS couple of times... so getting there..
> 
> At the same time I don't think I will or I don't think I want to go down and set everything on manual...
> If I nail it down as it is ...I'm more than happy..
> 
> I managed as it is now (16-16-16-34-1t) to obtain More than double bandwidth (54/55-57/58-51/52 MB/s) from XMP/Default RAM values while on the same level of latency (under 39 ms) and Increased my L1-L3 cache bandwidth by more than 70 GB/S...
> 
> For 24/7 that's more than enough for me..I wanted those 5 extra FPS from RAM and I think i got more close to +10...
> And if history is to repeat and I will keep this config for the next 8-10 years like I did with my Core 2 Quad these "conservative" and not pushed to the max settings will definitely help
> 
> For this OC i need more or less 1.435 v with 1.18 / 1.21 IO and 1.18 / 1.20 SA .. (getting 1 error further and further as I slowly tweak V ....200% +)
> More or less 1 setting away from stable...


----------



## vmanuelgm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 
> 
> Booting into Windows for RAM Configurator and AIDA64 cache and memory test.
> 
> I'm really happy with the timings and test results.


Great!!!


----------



## Asus11

just a daily update









getting closer I feel, will hit RTL IO-L once I have more knowledge


----------



## pion

Been trying to get 3866 back.
No luck. Always goes to a lower freq.

Also had probs with 3733C16. Had to tinker quite a bit before the board registered the correct freq.
Always wanted to go to 3333 or 3466.

Nobody have any ideas to what is causing this?


----------



## sabishiihito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Been trying to get 3866 back.
> No luck. Always goes to a lower freq.
> 
> Also had probs with 3733C16. Had to tinker quite a bit before the board registered the correct freq.
> Always wanted to go to 3333 or 3466.
> 
> Nobody have any ideas to what is causing this?


Try setting memory multiplier tweaker to 1.


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabishiihito*
> 
> Try setting memory multiplier tweaker to 1.


Thank you... it worked


----------



## xarot

Got my Corsair 4000 MHz 32 GB C19 kit yesterday. I was quite happy so far and trying 4000 17-17-17-39-1T 1.42V, but then one stick completely died. Why I wonder? Because this is how Amazon (.de) sent them to me. Like...seriously? Never go full ******, but someone just did. I wonder how the kit even booted at first attempt. The box has not been opened yet in this pic (I could remove the mem box from the envelope without opening it), all loose and nothing to support them. Sticks were not in their slots in the box...have to get a refund, or they send me another just like this.







Maybe I'll go with G.Skill kit now, because I couldn't even boot this kit at 4200 MHz.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Get the G. Skill and be like everyone else, me also.


----------



## xarot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Get the G. Skill and be like everyone else, me also.


Which one are you going for?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

I have this exact kit:

*https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/GSkill/F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW/*


----------



## xarot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> I have this exact kit:
> 
> *https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/GSkill/F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW/*


Yeah, heard good things about that kit. I was thinking of 3600 C16 32 GB or 64 GB. https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtzr


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> Yeah, heard good things about that kit. I was thinking of 3600 C16 32 GB or 64 GB. https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtzr


IMO, if you are not gonna set XMP and (expect to...) forget it, the 3200c14 and 3600c16 kits are just about the same if you manually do the timings.


----------



## FedericoUY

Are the 3200c14 32gb kits (2x16gb) reaching 3600 15-15-15-35 @ 1.35v ?


----------



## xarot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> IMO, if you are not gonna set XMP and (expect to...) forget it, the 3200c14 and 3600c16 kits are just about the same if you manually do the timings.


Yeah..well, it depends. I don't have much freetime nowadays, so sometimes I feel like just going for the 1-click set&forget method and sometimes I prefer doing it all myself. Haven't got the time to dial in the 7980XE much either.

Just installed bash into Windows 10, makes stressing RAM very easy.


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedericoUY*
> 
> Are the 3200c14 32gb kits (2x16gb) reaching 3600 15-15-15-35 @ 1.35v ?


Not mine.. not even at 1.5V


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Not mine.. not even at 1.5V


Its not all about RAM V!.. especially with some CPU samples..

There's also..RAM binning involved....and Slot binning....and MB binning....and CPU binning...so everything adds up to the RNG...

I have a very "leaky" CPU...to define leaky = I can pass 8 h prime at 1.425 @ 5.1 and fail prime in 5 min at 1.430 @ 5.1..

Almost any given RAM V rail (DIM V, VTTD, SA, IO etc..) reach the CPU in a way or other (that's why you see an increase in CPU temp as you go up with RAM or between default -2133 and XMP)... so you do the mat.

On my 3200C15D-32GTZ I can do 3600 15-15-15-35-1t at roughly 1.375 .. but I don't guarantee its also 1000% HCI memtest stable, or that might depend on how much SA and IO and other settings I trow at it..


----------



## Asus11

tWR is actually 12 in bios

tWTR_L is 8

its time for me to hit RTL IO-L can't lie I have no clue on them

I tried a method where you change the init value to the lowest it will boot which is 63 for me then up the IO offset by 1 so that the memory trains them RTL / IO tighter but on the first try of increasing offset it just didnt even boot so that was a door slammed in my face










EDIT : I think I may leave RTL as they dont really go much lower also 63 init value performances worse than 65 which performs better than 64, I might just set it to 65 and leave it

also when training the memory with IO offsets the numbers got tighter but the scores got worse, I guess thats the case with these RTL IO values they just like one certain set of numbers which lucky for me are stock aka aligned along with rest of the numbers

if anyone can see anything of misplace in my numbers please let me know.


----------



## xarot

I played a little bit around with my Corsair 64 GB 3200 CL 16-18-18-36 kit. I was surprised I could boot at 3600 so I copied the timings from some another kit. How does this look and what should I go for next?

I set VCCIO to 1.05 and VCCSA to 1.02 V on 7980XE althought might not be needed to be that high. Also set DRAM voltage to 1.43 V. Still safe?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> I played a little bit around with my Corsair 64 GB 3200 CL 16-18-18-36 kit. I was surprised I could boot at 3600 so I copied the timings from some another kit. How does this look and what should I go for next?
> 
> I set VCCIO to 1.05 and VCCSA to 1.02 V on 7980XE althought might not be needed to be that high. Also set DRAM voltage to 1.43 V. Still safe?


There's less of a penalty with using high density kits than there were on some of the older platforms. 1.43v is fine, yes


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> I played a little bit around with my Corsair 64 GB 3200 CL 16-18-18-36 kit. I was surprised I could boot at 3600 so I copied the timings from some another kit. How does this look and what should I go for next?
> 
> I set VCCIO to 1.05 and VCCSA to 1.02 V on 7980XE althought might not be needed to be that high. Also set DRAM voltage to 1.43 V. Still safe?


post a screenie with Asrock Timing Configurator version 4.0.4. Lets have a look.


----------



## xarot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> post a screenie with Asrock Timing Configurator version 4.0.4. Lets have a look.


Here:


----------



## Streetdragon

Hi i have a question: Just bought this quad kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR .
3600 an 3400 wont even boot, but this is fine. I aimed for 3200 cl14 t1.
So far i got it to boot and run hci memtest pro up to 300%. somewhere there my pc did a reboot. Error log only Shows unexpected reboot.
all on 100 strap. pushed sa voltage to 1,15V now. and dram voltage to 1,38-1,39V.

Where could be the Problem of the reboot? my cpu overclock? Cache? or the ram?

ATM im at word and my pc is running a new test with same voltages but lower cpu and cache clock. Wich voltage could i adjust to get it stable? wanna stay under 1,4V on dram.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> Here:


Have you seen if straight 17s are stable yet? 1T may be tricky, but also worth a try.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Hi i have a question: Just bought this quad kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR .
> 3600 an 3400 wont even boot, but this is fine. I aimed for 3200 cl14 t1.
> So far i got it to boot and run hci memtest pro up to 300%. somewhere there my pc did a reboot. Error log only Shows unexpected reboot.
> all on 100 strap. pushed sa voltage to 1,15V now. and dram voltage to 1,38-1,39V.
> 
> Where could be the Problem of the reboot? my cpu overclock? Cache? or the ram?
> 
> ATM im at word and my pc is running a new test with same voltages but lower cpu and cache clock. Wich voltage could i adjust to get it stable? wanna stay under 1,4V on dram.


What platform?


----------



## Streetdragon

x99 asus rampage v 5930k

atm i create a usb stick with Linux..







for gsat


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> x99 asus rampage v 5930k
> 
> atm i create a usb stick with Linux..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for gsat


3200 is the sweet spot on this platform. 3400 is also tough for most HWE CPU, so I'd get off that train of thought and tighten down at 3200.


----------



## Streetdragon

like i wrote. i go with 3200 cl14 14 14 34 1t. so far it crashes the whole pc and id does a reboot. if it freezes or so.. dont know. went to sleep or let the test run while im at work


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> like i wrote. i go with 3200 cl14 14 14 34 1t. so far it crashes the whole pc and id does a reboot. if it freezes or so.. dont know. went to sleep or let the test run while im at work


VCCSA (System Agent) is the most sensitive rail on that platform. Retry with anything from around 1.1 to 1.2v. Just keep in mind that more can be just as detrimental as less. 3200 is one of the stronger ratios, though. You should be able to get it stable. May need to increase the DRAM voltage slightly, too.


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> VCCSA (System Agent) is the most sensitive rail on that platform. Retry with anything from around 1.1 to 1.2v. Just keep in mind that more can be just as detrimental as less. 3200 is one of the stronger ratios, though. You should be able to get it stable. May need to increase the DRAM voltage slightly, too.


already tuned the sa to 1,15 +- 0,05V dram is running atm at 1,38V


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> already tuned the sa to 1,15 +- 0,05V dram is running atm at 1,38V


Leave uncore at stock if not currently, with a small offset applied. If you're running GSAT and the system passes 1 to 2 hours then it's likely the cache. AIDA cache test is also good on that platform. If still no joy, you'll have to relax some of the timings.


----------



## Streetdragon

faster/bigger ram can "kill" the stable oc of Cache? i already went one Multi down... will try next with stock Cache.

the cpu oc can stay or? Is occt stable. but i could just redo the whole oc, after ram is stable....


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> faster/bigger ram can "kill" the stable oc of Cache? i already went one Multi down... will try next with stock Cache.
> 
> the cpu oc can stay or? Is occt stable. but i could just redo the whole oc, after ram is stable....


Yes, more memory to address and faster memory increases the cache interaction. Thus more voltage can be needed on that side. Every CPU is different, but from my own experience IIRC my 5960X needed no more than a 20mv bump on the cache when switching to 32GB. You may need more, depends on how conditional the stability was with the other memory kit.

Test with GSAT first.


----------



## xarot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Have you seen if straight 17s are stable yet? 1T may be tricky, but also worth a try.


Tried straight 17s this morning before leaving for work, no problems in GSAT in 30 minutes. Also changed lowered VCCSA to 0.9 V and set VCCIO to auto.

Is there a trick to get 1T working if I run into issues? Voltage?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> Tried straight 17s this morning before leaving for work, no problems in GSAT in 30 minutes. Also changed lowered VCCSA to 0.9 V and set VCCIO to auto.
> 
> Is there a trick to get 1T working if I run into issues? Voltage?


More DRAM voltage might be needed, yes


----------



## Asus11

final stable 24/7 overclock

48 core / 47 cache 1.385v

1.1875v IO
1.2v SA

DDR4 1.45v

im done now


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> final stable 24/7 overclock
> 
> 48 core / 47 cache 1.385v
> 
> 1.1875v IO
> 1.2v SA
> 
> DDR4 1.45v
> 
> im done now


Nice!


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nice!


thanks









time for a watercooling upgrade today... just in time


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> Here:


hard way: RTP to 4, lower tCWL until it fails to post, then back off a notch or two and test stabililty... rinse and repeat (the hard way)
Easy(er) way: load the built-in preset 1 freq higher than your target, set the primaries back to your known-good settings, and test. Add VDIMM 25-50mV if required.
also, if you have AID64, which dram ICs manufacturer:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time for a watercooling upgrade today... just in time


NIce! and good move to WC.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> hard way: RTP to 4, lower tCWL until it fails to post, then back off a notch or two and test stabililty... rinse and repeat (the hard way)
> Easy(er) way: load the built-in preset 1 freq higher than your target, set the primaries back to your known-good settings, and test. Add VDIMM 25-50mV if required.
> also, if you have AID64, which dram ICs manufacturer:
> 
> NIce! and good move to WC.


I've been watercooled for years now, just installing a monoblock today ( & different tubing ) hehe, this will probably be the last mod to this build now the gpu/cpu/ram/mb will all be watercooled


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I've been watercooled for years now, just installing a monoblock today ( & different tubing ) hehe, this will probably be the last mod to this build now the gpu/cpu/ram/mb will all be watercooled


Ahh.. my bad. Water cooled ram too? Yeah, you got the "affliction".


----------



## pion

Anyone know where I might get the default timings for some G.Skill 3733-17-19-19-39?


----------



## ThrashZone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Ahh.. my bad. Water cooled ram too? Yeah, you got the "affliction".


Hi,
Love to see what water cooled looks like on ram...


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThrashZone*
> 
> ...exact model ?


https://gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&series=0&prop_3=3733MHz&prop_4=0&prop_1=0&prop_2=32GB+(16GBx2)

I have 3200C14


----------



## ThrashZone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> https://gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&series=0&prop_3=3733MHz&prop_4=0&prop_1=0&prop_2=32GB+(16GBx2)
> 
> I have 3200C14


Hi,
Here are all the C14's which one is yours
https://gskill.com/en/search?keyword=3200C14
But it shows 14-14-14-34 @1.35v for all that i noticed.


----------



## Streetdragon

Soo 32 gig 3200Mhz cl14 14 14 32 1t is gsat stable. now i test if the clock is still good and than cache...





i think the voltages are ok


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThrashZone*
> 
> Hi,
> Here are all the C14's which one is yours
> https://gskill.com/en/search?keyword=3200C14
> But it shows 14-14-14-34 @1.35v for all that i noticed.


I have the Ripjaws...
But I'm trying to OC to 3733C17.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Soo 32 gig 3200Mhz cl14 14 14 32 1t is gsat stable. now i test if the clock is still good and than cache...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think the voltages are ok


Looks fine. Remember try AIDA as well as HCI if looking for cache instability. Run HCI with no cache overclock firstly, though, with a small offset applied as suggested earlier.


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Looks fine. Remember try AIDA as well as HCI if looking for cache instability. Run HCI with no cache overclock firstly, though, with a small offset applied as suggested earlier.


cool than i will do hci memtest one more time, after one houre of occt for the clock. thx for the tipps! will report back after the two runs.



do you have a tipp, what timing i could easy tune without extra voltage? maybe only extra dimm voltage. but nor much


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> final stable 24/7 overclock
> 
> 48 core / 47 cache 1.385v
> 
> 1.1875v IO
> 1.2v SA
> 
> DDR4 1.45v
> 
> im done now
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Looks Great!


----------



## ThrashZone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> I have the Ripjaws...
> But I'm trying to OC to 3733C17.


Hi,
Not sure why I've read the c14 is about the best you can have but I'll let the experts recommend other timings to try


----------



## pion

Also...has anyone had Asrock Timing Configurator just freeze the readings?
They won't change.. not after uninstall, reboot or going back to 4.0.3









...

Started working again after I reset BIOS


----------



## becks

Anyone here managed to make Memtweakit work on z170 ? (M8I)


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Anyone here managed to make Memtweakit work on z170 ? (M8I)


On my X99 I need to use the 3.0.6 version.

Probably work on Z170 as well.









Hard to find a download, I'll see if I can attach it here in an hour when I'm home.









Wait, I'm talking about RAM Configurator, that'll work, right?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> On my X99 I need to use the 3.0.6 version.
> 
> Probably work on Z170 as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to find a download, I'll see if I can attach it here in an hour when I'm home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, I'm talking about RAM Configurator, that'll work, right?


There's something seriously wrong with me...

I've been trying to get Memtweakit work for months now with no success...
I come here and complain.... and 5 min later I get it working..
Every single time its the same... whenever I complain about something it gets fixed 5 min later









BTW... for anyone interested..version used is this one: MemTweakIt_20170830


----------



## JMTH

Hey all, well after all the work I did on stabilizing everything I had to RMA my motherboard. Arg!!! So I ended up buying a RVE10 hehe, I'll just sell the X99-Deluxe ii when/if it ever comes back lol. I thought about dumping everything and getting a 8700k, but then I would have to try and sell the ram as it was not on any Z370 mb's qvl's. Well at least that I could find lol.
Then as I was getting ready to install the RVE10 my dang psu took a dump as well... Not my week hehe. Sending that in for an RMA as well... So since I was screwed anyway I bought a AX1200i... Which is working perfect. I also added another radiator, changed all the fans, so I should be able to get my Temps even lower, and I'll be ready for when I get some new video cards and put them on water lol... Don't you hate when you want to change just 1 thing and it turns into 20 lol. Hope to have it leak checked this weekend and back into testing next week. I'll start posting again soon hehe have to do all that testing again arg!!!


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> !


I have "that week" as well... so welcome to the ship


----------



## Streetdragon

Ok thats strange... Memory is 4+Hourse gsat stable and cpu 1h occt.
HCI memtest still crashes the pc what?


----------



## pion

I can't seem to get HCI stable either..
GSAT, stress(and -ng) and OCCT stable :/


----------



## Streetdragon

i saw the bluescreen now "kmode-exception-not-handled" oookkk^^ something new


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Ok thats strange... Memory is 4+Hourse gsat stable and cpu 1h occt.
> HCI memtest still crashes the pc what?


HCI gave me bsod 101 few times it was cache being too high / volts too low


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> I can't seem to get HCI stable either..
> GSAT, stress(and -ng) and OCCT stable :/


Have you tried Aida cache stress test for 2 hours, realbench stress test for 8 hours?
Those might show you what's causing the problem. It's probably your cpu or cache overclock. If those pass then it's probably your VCCSA, VCCIO cpu, and/or dram voltage.

HCI is the best yet slowest / biggest PITA memory test.


----------



## KCDC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Have you tried Aida cache stress test for 2 hours, realbench stress test for 8 hours?
> Those might show you what's causing the problem. It's probably your cpu or cache overclock. If those pass then it's probably your VCCSA, VCCIO cpu, and/or dram voltage.
> 
> HCI is the best yet slowest / biggest PITA memory test.


Ended up getting the paid HCI bootable memtest so it can just run overnight without all those instances.. Made a huge difference in PITA department. Plus you're at command line, not in win, better testing platform.


----------



## pion

Got an error with Aida cache test.
I have cache on auto = 37x
..and only a 47x OC


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Got an error with Aida cache test.
> I have cache on auto = 37x
> ..and only a 47x OC


Careful with auto on cache, it could bump your voltage pretty high.
Try cache 36x at 1.2v. What cpu are you running?


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> HCI gave me bsod 101 few times it was cache being too high / volts too low


problem is: i have no oc on the cache but extra volt on it
all the bluescreens/crashes. hope this can help to find the problem


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> ... What cpu are you running?


8700k

...

Hrmph
HCI gave an error with all settings in BIOS on default.. only XMP on ram.
8700k isada broken?









...

I did test the RAM at XMP default when I first got them...GSAT for 1h.
And I've been running GSAT with OC overnight without problems.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



[email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -s 36000 -W -M 29500 --stop_on_errors -l stressapptest.log
Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 1303210496.00M in 36000.30s 36199.98MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
Stats: Memory Copy: 1303210496.00M at 36200.12MB/s
Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s

Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors


Oh.. and before that i tested a bunch with memtest86+

But also ran OCCT for 8h without errors








And stress-ng for 5 hours.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



[email protected] ~ $ stress-ng -c 12 -l 100 --log-file stress-ng.log
stress-ng: info: [2882] defaulting to a 86400 second run per stressor
stress-ng: info: [2882] dispatching hogs: 12 cpu
stress-ng: info: [2882] cache allocate: default cache size: 12288K
^Cstress-ng: info: [2882] successful run completed in 18533.00s (5 hours, 8 mins, 53.00 secs)



...

AIDA cache test 8h stable


----------



## Silent Scone

Has anyone managed any form of stability @ 4200 on SKL-X? Just interested to see if we have anyone here. Most I've managed is around 80% coverage on HCI, and that took a fair amount of work.

For the record there's no real point being up that high due to the timing concessions, but it's good to get a scope for the CPU range.


----------



## becks

For my CPU sample I think the biggest "overcome" is cache.. going from 4.2 to 4.5 requires more V to be stable AVX than going from 5.0 to 5.1 Core...

Really bad the M8I doesn't have any way to input/offset cache V separately


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> problem is: i have no oc on the cache but extra volt on it
> all the bluescreens/crashes. hope this can help to find the problem


Ok 2800 ram is stable so far. Hci Close to 400 percent.
Try Now 1.4v on ram 1.16 Sa Cache stock


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> 8700k
> 
> ...
> 
> Hrmph
> HCI gave an error with all settings in BIOS on default.. only XMP on ram.
> 8700k isada broken?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I did test the RAM at XMP default when I first got them...GSAT for 1h.
> And I've been running GSAT with OC overnight without problems.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -s 36000 -W -M 29500 --stop_on_errors -l stressapptest.log
> Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
> Stats: Completed: 1303210496.00M in 36000.30s 36199.98MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
> Stats: Memory Copy: 1303210496.00M at 36200.12MB/s
> Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> 
> Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors
> 
> 
> Oh.. and before that i tested a bunch with memtest86+
> 
> But also ran OCCT for 8h without errors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And stress-ng for 5 hours.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] ~ $ stress-ng -c 12 -l 100 --log-file stress-ng.log
> stress-ng: info: [2882] defaulting to a 86400 second run per stressor
> stress-ng: info: [2882] dispatching hogs: 12 cpu
> stress-ng: info: [2882] cache allocate: default cache size: 12288K
> ^Cstress-ng: info: [2882] successful run completed in 18533.00s (5 hours, 8 mins, 53.00 secs)
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> AIDA cache test 3h+ stable


Something in xour xmp is giving you the error then. So it's most likely VCCSA, VCCIO cpu, or dram voltage. Check your bclk, is it anything other then 100?

Try increasing your dram voltage by .01 to .03 and see if that passes. If that doesn't work then try VCCIO cpu,same .01 to .03. If neither of those work then it's probably your VCCSA. If that's the case then it can take a while to get a value that will work hehe. Start at 0.9 or so and bump it up using the + key 1 to 3 times then rinse and repeat until you stumble over the right value. I would suggest a case or two of beer while you wait hehe.


----------



## Streetdragon

could it be that my score is a bit low? btw cache is stock 3000mhz


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Something in xour xmp is giving you the error then. So it's most likely VCCSA, VCCIO cpu, or dram voltage. Check your bclk, is it anything other then 100?...


Thank you. I'll check the bclk later tonight.
Running GSAT again for more than 1h.

Maybe this screenshot can give some clues to what's wrong?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






VCCSA seems a bit high with 1.3V right?

...

7h+ of GSAT no errors


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Looks fine. Remember try AIDA as well as HCI if looking for cache instability. Run HCI with no cache overclock firstly, though, with a small offset applied as suggested earlier.


thx for all yozr help! rep











i think i run aida a bit longer. 4hours or so^^

and 1,3V on sa. think its a bit high. try 1,18. for me its working. maybe its your magic number too


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> thx for all yozr help! rep
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think i run aida a bit longer. 4hours or so^^
> 
> and 1,3V on sa. think its a bit high. try 1,18. for me its working. maybe its your magic number too


No problem. Yeah, 1.3v on VCCSA is high, don't really want to be exceeding 1.25v on that platform.


----------



## becks

Managed to set all my timings manually









Primary.. Secondary ..Tertiary ...RTL-S and IO-L's .. on 3733 16-16-16-36-324-1t on G.Skill F4-3200C15D 32 gb Kit (2x16)

Going past 30% as we speak...looks promising

Btw...maybe someone can sort this out..
Why...even if the rule is tFAW=tRTPx4 my board/ram does not like it at all..
its 6/16 at the moment but if I try and lower tRTP to 4 so (4x4=16 tFAW) I get no post...and If I get higher like tFAW 6 - tRTP 24 I get memtest errors very fast...

Is it tied to something else ?









EDIT: I mean even the default is 8/24...

And another question... Working fine on cold boot, but q_code 51 sometimes when I restart from OS .... what should I tinker with ? (VTT ? 0.5125 ?)


----------



## chibi

Just got my 8700K rig up and running. It's currently sitting on a box waiting for a case and watercooling parts - no delid or core/cache oc _yet_. I was able to pass BASH GSAT 1hr with the following settings. I still need to work on tertiary timings and see if I can push 3866MHz higher. I was having troubles booting 4000MHz with auto timings, may I please ask the memory guru's to have a look over my bios config and see where I can tweak to push further?

G.SKILL TridentZ F4-3600C16D-16GTZKW

chibi --- i7-8700K @ Stock --- 3866Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T --- 1.40V --- VSA 1.21V --- VCCIO 1.1875V --- Stressapptest ---1 Hour

stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200



Spoiler: Bios Screenshots






















3866Config.zip 2666k .zip file


----------



## pion

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Thank you. I'll check the bclk later tonight.
> Running GSAT again for more than 1h.
> 
> Maybe this screenshot can give some clues to what's wrong?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCCSA seems a bit high with 1.3V right?
> 
> ...
> 
> 7h+ of GSAT no errors






Got an error a hardware incident with GSAT








Should I just send back the RAM? Or is it the CPU?



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



[email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -s 36000 -W -M 29500 --stop_on_errors -l stressapptest.log
Log: Commandline - stressapptest -s 36000 -W -M 29500 --stop_on_errors -l stressapptest.log
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: buildd @ kapok on Wed Jan 21 17:09:35 UTC 2015 from open source release
Log: 1 nodes, 12 cpus.
Log: Defaulting to 12 copy threads
Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
Log: Using memaligned allocation at 0x7f4ba89da000.
Stats: Starting SAT, 29500M, 36000 seconds

...

Log: Seconds remaining: 22200
Log: Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (22200 seconds remaining)
Log: Seconds remaining: 22190
Log: Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (22185 seconds remaining)
Report Error: miscompare : DIMM Unknown : 1 : 13819s
Hardware Error: miscompare on CPU 5(0x100) at 0x7f4c933fce70(0x2IMM Unknown): read:0xff7fffffffffffff, reread:0xff7fffffff7fffff expected:0xff7fffffff7fffff
Log: Seconds remaining: 22180

...

^CLog: User exiting early (9024 seconds remaining)
Log: Thread 5 found 1 hardware incidents
Stats: Found 1 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 850958656.00M in 26976.11s 31544.90MB/s, with 1 hardware incidents, 0 errors
Stats: Memory Copy: 850958656.00M at 31545.67MB/s
Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s

Status: FAIL - test discovered HW problems



(No OC..just RAM @3200C14)


----------



## KedarWolf

I popped my 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 CL14 kit in, set the timings and voltages, booted into Linux, running GSAT the PC rebooted, I was snoozing.

When I got up booted into BIOS, one channels the eventual voltage was set at 1.9v.









Running GSAT two hours while I'm at work to see if I ruined any DIMMs.


----------



## becks

Ram is sturdy.. don't worry @KedarWolf ill keep my fingers crossed for you


----------



## Imprezzion

I got a 6700K with a MSI Z270 Gaming M5 and a set of 2x8GB Kingston HyperX Fury 2666 CL15..
This is pretty cheap Micron RAM that's not very well known for clocking..

And no, frequency wise it's terrible. It will barely do 3000Mhz and needs like, 17-20-20-40 timings @ 1.30v to even be remotely stable.

However... I'm on 2666Mhz now with stock 1.20v and i keep lowering the timings and testing a bit with prime 28.7 8K FFT @ 12GB RAM and so far even on 1.20v it still runs "stable" on 13-16-16-35-1T. I'm going to try 13-15-15-33 now lol.. How much lower is the CL going to go on this kit before i have to smash volts into it.. Best thing is, VCCSA is also still on stock 1.05v lol..

As soon as i find the lowest Prime 8K 12GB stable timings i'm going for the HCI 200% run as well.
Shouldn't take all that long with 16GB.

EDIT: I'm on 75% with 12GB in HCI now (8 instances @ 1500) on 12-16-16-35-1T stock volts 1.20v. No errors yet.. Seems promising.. CL12 on DDR4-2666.. lol..

EDIT2: It hardlocked at 80%







I'm trying 13-15-15-33-333-1T @ 1.20v now. (6 instances HCI @ 2000MB so i can actually watch youtube on the background). If this is stable i'll shoot for 12-14-14-30-300-1T with a bunch more voltage.

EDIT3: 2666 @ 13-15-15-33-333-1T 1.20v easily passed 230% @ 12GB.


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> 
> Got an error a hardware incident with GSAT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should I just send back the RAM? Or is it the CPU?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] ~ $ stressapptest -s 36000 -W -M 29500 --stop_on_errors -l stressapptest.log
> Log: Commandline - stressapptest -s 36000 -W -M 29500 --stop_on_errors -l stressapptest.log
> Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
> Log: buildd @ kapok on Wed Jan 21 17:09:35 UTC 2015 from open source release
> Log: 1 nodes, 12 cpus.
> Log: Defaulting to 12 copy threads
> Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
> Log: Using memaligned allocation at 0x7f4ba89da000.
> Stats: Starting SAT, 29500M, 36000 seconds
> 
> ...
> 
> Log: Seconds remaining: 22200
> Log: Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (22200 seconds remaining)
> Log: Seconds remaining: 22190
> Log: Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (22185 seconds remaining)
> Report Error: miscompare : DIMM Unknown : 1 : 13819s
> Hardware Error: miscompare on CPU 5(0x100) at 0x7f4c933fce70(0x2IMM Unknown): read:0xff7fffffffffffff, reread:0xff7fffffff7fffff expected:0xff7fffffff7fffff
> Log: Seconds remaining: 22180
> 
> ...
> 
> ^CLog: User exiting early (9024 seconds remaining)
> Log: Thread 5 found 1 hardware incidents
> Stats: Found 1 hardware incidents
> Stats: Completed: 850958656.00M in 26976.11s 31544.90MB/s, with 1 hardware incidents, 0 errors
> Stats: Memory Copy: 850958656.00M at 31545.67MB/s
> Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> 
> Status: FAIL - test discovered HW problems
> 
> 
> 
> (No OC..just RAM @3200C14)


Anything over like 2600 is considered OC'ed. Do you have Xmp on? Do a bios reset and test with everything auto. If your ram fails, try re-seating all of the sticks, and retest. If that fails then it's probably the ram sticks themselves.
You should always test your system at stock settings first to make sure none of the hardware is faulty.


----------



## pion

I just kinda considered XMP to be stock








(running HCI at stock...)

...

1000% no errors


----------



## Imprezzion

2666 @ 12-14-14-30-300-1T 1.35v also stable. Still on stock 1.05v VCCSA.



8 instances @ 1500 each = 12GB tested to a little over 210%.

I can't really go any further since changing any of the primary timings besides CAS will cause almost instant errors and dropping the tRFC to anything below like, 280 will result in failure to even POST / boot. Voltage doesn't seem to help at all either in getting any lower.

I don't assume increasing VCCSA will help in this situation since frequency is still so low? (wierd how 2666 12-14-14 is stable but 3000 15-17-17 is pretty much instantly nuked in HCI..)

I'm going to try one more thing that i haven't tried yet... CL11...

EDIT: Even CL11 is stable?! Oh well.. CL10 wont even POST so that is out of the question but 2666 @ 11-14-14-30-300-1T 1.35v on a cheap it like this? lol..


----------



## becks

Just left my pc overnight running memtest..
It was at 245% when I went to bed...
Woke up...it was 897% and had ONE ERROR!!!
No!!!!!!!!!!

back to drawing board...


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf--i7 5960x @4.7/4.4--3200Mhz-C13-14-13-25-1T----1.45v---SA .343 Offset (1.136v stress testing) ---Stressapptest 2 Hour

G-Skill Ripjaws 5 DDR4-3200 CL14 4x8GB (32GB total)


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf--i7 5960x @4.7/4.4---3200Mhz-C14-15-14-27-2T----1.4v---SA .333 Offset(1.128v stress testing)---Stressapptest 1 Hour

Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000 8x16GB (128GB total)


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I've been watercooled for years now, just installing a monoblock today ( & different tubing ) hehe, this will probably be the last mod to this build now the gpu/cpu/ram/mb will all be watercooled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. my bad. Water cooled ram too? Yeah, you got the "affliction".
Click to expand...

@Jpmboy

What's that utility that shows the motherboard voltages you have set, while in Windows?

I don't recall and seem to have deleted it.


----------



## chibi

Hey @KedarWolf

Thanks for helping me with a custom maxwell titan bios a few years back! I believe thats Asus turbo vcore you're looking for to display the voltages in windows


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*


If you want the one that displays V on the right side of the screen..its AIDA OSD...

Btw...can you look for that memtweakit link you said ? It seems the version I have lets me see them but not change them...

On a different note...
Can you guys please explain to me how Eventual DRAM v...Boot DRAM v...and VTT v work on z170 ?
It seems I have them completely wrong...whenever I touch them and set on Manual I do more harm than good...


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> I just kinda considered XMP to be stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (running HCI at stock...)
> 
> ...
> 
> 1000% no errors


Well... if I can't OC the RAM at all, what is the problem?
Gigabyte and this Gaming 7?


----------



## Streetdragon

Redid my whole overclock. So far i can say gsat and Aida Cache Test os crap. Everything pass but hci memtest was crashing it.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 
> 
> If you want the one that displays V on the right side of the screen..its AIDA OSD...
> 
> Btw...can you look for that memtweakit link you said ? It seems the version I have lets me see them but not change them...
> 
> On a different note...
> Can you guys please explain to me how Eventual DRAM v...Boot DRAM v...and VTT v work on z170 ?
> It seems I have them completely wrong...whenever I touch them and set on Manual I do more harm than good...
Click to expand...

Actually, I was talking about RAM Configurator, not MemTweakIt.

Here it is though.

TimingConfiguratorv3.0.6.zip 2625k .zip file


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Hey @KedarWolf
> 
> Thanks for helping me with a custom maxwell titan bios a few years back! I believe thats Asus turbo vcore you're looking for to display the voltages in windows


Yes, Turbo Vcore.

Thank you!!


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*


Thanks + Rep

Still looking for knowledge in regards to:

Q_code 51 when you restart from OS... no problem when cold booting.
Vtt v..Eventual V...Boot V...how to use them...

Also, Off-topic...my CPU gets hotter running Memtest than doing Prime95 28.10 AVX Small Ftt 1344-1344


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Redid my whole overclock. So far i can say gsat and Aida Cache Test os crap. Everything pass but hci memtest was crashing it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hello

Unlike HCI GSAT fully isolates and tests the memory only. There are multiple posts in this thread regarding this.


----------



## roybotnik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Well... if I can't OC the RAM at all, what is the problem?
> Gigabyte and this Gaming 7?


I have the same board and haven't had any problems pushing my 3200 C14 sticks to 3600 C15 and higher. They set the VCCSA and VCCIO voltages very high even at 3200 with the XMP profile, sometimes too high causes errors. Also you might want to try the newest beta BIOS (F5c). I noticed that this lowered the VCCPLL_OC voltage that the board sets by default.

I found that VCCIO is the main voltage I need to pay attention to. If I lower it to 1.050V, training will fail every once in a while. At 1.1V or 1.15V I never have issues. Beyond that doesn't seem to make much difference. With it at 1.150 my RTLs are 54/56 and IO-L are 6/6. Lowering it to 1.1V, it seems to change to 56/57 and 6/7. Not sure which is better. I'm going to try the other DIMM slots to see what it gives.

Here's what I'm running, but I had an error in a 1000% HCI memtest run so I need to tweak something a tiny bit.

RAM is 1.35V, VCCIO 1.15V, VCCSA 1.2V:


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roybotnik*


On z170 (M8I motherboard) only IO v affects IMC v.. as read trough software...maybe that's why you encounter that behaviour..

Not really sure what SA influences and how...or when you know your are ok with SA and can move to IO or the other way round..

They are all very well kept secrets


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roybotnik*
> 
> ...Also you might want to try the newest beta BIOS (F5c)...


Thanks for the tips









Well without XMP i managed 1000% without erros.

There is a new F5e out...
Gonna try it and see if i can run HCI on XMP (3200C14 2x16) with it


----------



## roybotnik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Thanks for the tips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well without XMP i managed 1000% without erros.
> 
> There is a new F5e out...
> Gonna try it and see if i can run HCI on XMP (3200C14 2x16) with it


Oh nice, going to download and try that out. You should definitely be able to get your sticks working at 3200 and beyond, I have the same set I think (is it TridentZ?). Are you using the DIMM slots nearest to the CPU or away from it? I tried putting them into the DIMM0 slots for each channel and couldn't even get the memory to train, so back to DIMM1.


----------



## pion

Ripjaws... away from the CPU


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @4.7GHz-4.7GHz -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4133MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.175v -- VCCIO 1.15v -- HCI 1000%:*


----------



## ogider

MrTOOSHORT
Your IO-L (CHB) is quite high .
I guess You have this on auto?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> *MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @4.7GHz-4.7GHz -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4133MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.175v -- VCCIO 1.15v -- HCI 1000%:*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice! that's a low VSA and VCCIO too. 4266 requires 1.2875 VSA and 1.25+ vccio on my rig. You might bet some better alignment with a bit more than you have on each.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> MrTOOSHORT
> Your IO-L (CHB) is quite high .
> I guess You have this on auto?


Thanks, I just went into the bios and set it up manually:



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Nice! that's a low VSA and VCCIO too. 4266 requires 1.2875 VSA and 1.25+ vccio on my rig. You might bet some better alignment with a bit more than you have on each.


Thanks. I just did a quick set up of my ram at this speed and figured to try the HCI test. Surprised it past first try. I just set this 8700k system up two nights ago, and first time on ddr4.

Now to put in the work and see what I can come up with.


----------



## chibi

Worked on some tertiary timings and passed 1 hour gsat, however my RTL and IO seem a bit off. Which voltage rail can I adjust to get them aligned better?

chibi --- i7-8700K @ Stock --- 3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T --- 1.415V --- VSA 1.21V --- VCCIO 1.1875V --- Stressapptest --- 1 Hour


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Thanks for the tips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well without XMP i managed 1000% without erros.
> 
> There is a new F5e out...
> Gonna try it and see if i can run HCI on XMP (3200C14 2x16) with it


Failed with on XMP again









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







...

Trying again with SA set manually to 1.2V

...

FAIL again









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Any ideas about what I should do?

...

Right, change slots








Not enough sleep

...

Moved the sticks from slots 1&2 to 3&4.
HCI 100%+

...

If slots 3&4 work, does that mean a 4 slot 64gb config won't work either?
even though it is in the QVL:
G.SKILL 16GB 2Rx8 F4-3200C14Q-64GVK DS Samsung 14-14-14-34 1.35v

Gskill.com has the Gaming 7 on their QVL with my RAM

...

Error!
Trying SA 1.2V again


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Thanks, I just went into the bios and set it up manually:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I just did a quick set up of my ram at this speed and figured to try the HCI test. Surprised it past first try. I just set this 8700k system up two nights ago, and first time on ddr4.
> 
> Now to put in the work and see what I can come up with.


And what's the verdict? You like the 8700K?








and that ram kit is a pretty good one - right?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> And what's the verdict? You like the 8700K?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that ram kit is a pretty good one - right?


Even though it's not a great clocker(compared to other chips), I like this set up a lot. I think my expectations were too high when it comes to OC.

Still have to delid, so that might change things with my chip. Love the ram!


----------



## roybotnik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Moved the sticks from slots 1&2 to 3&4.
> HCI 100%+
> 
> ...
> 
> If slots 3&4 work, does that mean a 4 slot 64gb config won't work either?
> even though it is in the QVL:
> G.SKILL 16GB 2Rx8 F4-3200C14Q-64GVK DS Samsung 14-14-14-34 1.35v
> 
> ...
> 
> Error!
> Trying SA 1.2V again


Geez, I hope you don't have bad sticks. The ripjaws kit you have is the same as the TridentZ kit I have, as far as I know. Try setting VCCIO to 1.2V manually. It seems to be training fine since the RTL and IOL look good.

As for kits with all four slots populated, not necessarily since the system will set up the signaling differently when there's more sticks. Hopefully it's fine since I'd like to pick up another set of the 2x8GB for this system if ram ever comes back to normal pricing..


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roybotnik*
> 
> Geez, I hope you don't have bad sticks....


Aren't they OK if they work without OC (XMP)?

...

Suprise suprise... error


----------



## Caradine

what's with hynix MFR and tertiary timings? I spent so much time tightening everything only to get worse performance, including going from ~42ns latency in aida64 to ~44 consistently. I even tried middle grounds like trying to stick to multiples of 4 or setting most stuff to 8. Everything on auto is consistently better.








Can I even be sure the same thing isn't happening with secondary timings? Not sure how to tighten the timings anymore.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Ram is sturdy.. don't worry @KedarWolf ill keep my fingers crossed for you


My memory is fine, passed two hours of GSAT. 'phew'


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roybotnik*
> 
> Geez, I hope you don't have bad sticks. The ripjaws kit you have is the same as the TridentZ kit I have, as far as I know. Try setting VCCIO to 1.2V manually. It seems to be training fine since the RTL and IOL look good.
> 
> As for kits with all four slots populated, not necessarily since the system will set up the signaling differently when there's more sticks. Hopefully it's fine since I'd like to pick up another set of the 2x8GB for this system if ram ever comes back to normal pricing..


RipjawVs and TridentZs are similar but not the same. I have both and the TridentZs OC'd better (3400 vs. 3200). As always, YMMV.


----------



## pion

I don't know what to do now.
Should I just send the RAM back?

...

On the bright side.. my CPU runs a lot cooler with the RAM at 2133 MHz


----------



## Jpmboy

I thought I saw you running [email protected] like 1.35V (nvm, just checked FSE







) ? But yes, delid basically transforms the behavior. All chips vary, I saw a good +100MHz with very little change in voltage.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I thought I saw you running [email protected] like 1.35V (nvm, just checked FSE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) ? But yes, delid basically transforms the behavior. All chips vary, I saw a good +100MHz with very little change in voltage.


Not too worried about it, still a good chip.

*MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @48/48 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4133MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.2v -- VCCIO 1.175v -- HCI 400%:*


----------



## ogider

Ogider -- [email protected] 5.0/4.7 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4133 16-17-17-34-1T --- 1.488V --- SA 1.224V --- IO 1.200V --- HCI 700% -- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ



In bios I set a bit lower values
Dram 1.46V,SA 1.200V,IO 1.18V

But my mainboard like add something more.


----------



## becks

Anyone mind enlightening me...what's the difference between Memtest Pro and Deluxe ?

I have the Pro (5$ one..)...

Found my answer...

Deluxe include a 32 and a 64 version + a bootable CD.


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> ...
> 1000% no errors


GSAT 10h

But only 2133..
Why can't I use XMP?
Is is just that the timings are wrong?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> GSAT 10h
> 
> But only 2133..
> Why can't I use XMP?
> Is is just that the timings are wrong?


What version of HCI memtest you using ? 5.x or 6 ?


----------



## pion

No idea... purchased the pro version 5 days ago
(and I've requested a sound alert from the dev.
Would love it if I didn't have to check it all the time for errors)


----------



## NeoandGeo

I need to send in a couple of requests as well, if these things aren't possible. A way to have the program auto arrangee all the windows it eventually opens and maybe a way to email errors as they happen while you're away.

Though it is a little exhilarating to come back a few hours later and move all the windows one by one


----------



## pion

He said the alert would be a 1 line fix..
Told him if that was too easy he could make a phone app to alert instead


----------



## Streetdragon

Could it be, that a single programm can make a stable system unstable?
I can game/stress like i want, when i close msi afterburner. After i startet it, my rig crashes after 10-15 mins while stressing


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Could it be, that a single programm can make a stable system unstable?
> I can game/stress like i want, when i close msi afterburner. After i startet it, my rig crashes after 10-15 mins while stressing


Could be .. or I don't fully understand your question...

If you have like 2-4 programs all trying to take data from same sensors..at the same time, and some are more optimized than others it might result in instability..
It might also bee that by having certain programs open (like After burner ...when its open it applies the OC to the GPU) you increase the load in your cooling (assuming its water cooling) and therefore increase temp which results in a system crash...I mean we've been deliding for years now to obtain lower temp which in turn give us higher freq / lower volts...

Its a tad more complicated than it seems so we really need to know the specifics..
What are you opening...when...what's your system like etc..

Also there are known bugs.... like RB will fail if you have AB open...and so on

Guys I have a question..

When do you draw the line and assume in a logical manner that "Ok...it won't do it.. I have to move on"

I mean..for the past weeks I went trough All imaginable combinations of RAM V/SA/IO trying to get this OC to work...but it just won't do it..
From 1.380 v / 1.08 SA/IO to 1.475 1.28 SA/IO I tried every single combination... My HCI log file starts to get close to a 3 figure in MB!
I feel like I'm really close ....but still not stable....
What angers me even more is that I constantly got higher in HCI with everything manual than on Auto which indicates the latest Bios does a craptastic job at training the RAM...
But does my BIOS fail only at training or are there other settings deep under...

I loosened the RTL's & IOL's on my last part of testing so I switched them on Auto...no improvement...
Tried to play with tRFC / tREFI
Pushed tCKE higher...lower...in between...AUTO...
What can I adjust next ?

I mean...I'm not aiming for some unbelievable 4200+ speeds with C10 or whatever its a mere 3733 at C16....
Looking at the Spreadsheet on the OP doesn't help either... here I am pushing 1.475 with over 1.25 SA&IO and others are having higher performance on 1.35 v.... IS THIS EVEN REAL!?


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Guys I have a question..
> 
> When do you draw the line and assume in a logical manner that "Ok...it won't do it.. I have to move on"
> 
> I mean..for the past weeks I went trough All imaginable combinations of RAM V/SA/IO trying to get this OC to work...but it just won't do it..
> From 1.380 v / 1.08 SA/IO to 1.475 1.28 SA/IO I tried every single combination... My HCI log file starts to get close to a 3 figure in MB!
> I feel like I'm really close ....but still not stable....
> What angers me even more is that I constantly got higher in HCI with everything manual than on Auto which indicates the latest Bios does a craptastic job at training the RAM...
> But does my BIOS fail only at training or are there other settings deep under...
> 
> I loosened the RTL's & IOL's on my last part of testing so I switched them on Auto...no improvement...
> Tried to play with tRFC / tREFI
> Pushed tCKE higher...lower...in between...AUTO...
> What can I adjust next ?
> 
> I mean...I'm not aiming for some unbelievable 4200+ speeds with C10 or whatever its a mere 3733 at C16....
> Looking at the Spreadsheet on the OP doesn't help either... here I am pushing 1.475 with over 1.25 SA&IO and others are having higher performance on 1.35 v.... IS THIS EVEN REAL!?


Have you tried lower SA and IO voltages, sometimes less is more, if you know what I mean. My ram likes quite low SA and IO v's. Worth a try.









What bios revision are you on, can you flash back to a more ram friendly one. ? Are you taking core and uncore out of the equation, and overclocking the ram only.


----------



## sdch

I made a simple AutoHotkey script for launching 12 instances of the free version of HCI MemTest and automatically entering 1024 MB and starting the test. It arranges all the windows in a nice 3 x 4 grid. Copy the code into an .ahk file and run it from the HCI MemTest folder. Edit the values as needed for other processors/memory combinations. Default is for 8700K/16GB, which I'm playing with right now.

Code:



Code:


xpos = 3
ypos = 5
Loop, 12
{
  if (A_Index == 5) || (A_Index == 9)
  {
    xpos = 3
    ypos += 256
  }

  Run, memtest.exe
  WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
  Send {Enter}
  sleep 100
  WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
  Send 1024{Tab}{Enter}
  WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
  Send {Enter}

  xpos += 222
}


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*


I went from 1.08 up (SA & IO) with lower values I get failed boots (Q-Code 51)
Can't switch to older version of Bios as I had problems with earlier version. From RAID to UEFI...
Took CPU out of equation...dropped to Default (both Core and Cache) than re-done my OC on CPU and passed 4h Prime95 (version 26.6 non AVX for 4h and 28.10 AVS for 4h)
Before I had 5.1 Core / 4.9 Cache ..new OC at 5.0 Core / -1 AVX offset / 4.5 Cache...


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I made a simple AutoHotkey script for launching 12 instances of the free version of HCI MemTest and automatically entering 1024 MB and starting the test. It arranges all the windows in a nice 3 x 4 grid. Copy the code into an .ahk file and run it from the HCI MemTest folder. Edit the values as needed for other processors/memory combinations. Default is for 8700K/16GB, which I'm playing with right now.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> sleep 1000
> xpos = -219
> Loop, 12
> {
> xpos += 222
> 
> if A_Index < 5
> ypos = 5
> else if (A_Index < 9)
> ypos = 261
> else
> ypos = 517
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1024{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
> xpos = -219
> }


Thanks for doing so + rep!
The Launcher we had does not work with newer 6.x version.

What's your coding experience ? any chance we can request from you to make further modifications to this ? (Sound ? Change window Color when Error ? etc. etc..)

N.B. Sending mobile notifications and what not has been previously asked I feel like its a PITA ...is more complicated as the app would need to communicate via some platform


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Thanks for doing so + rep!
> The Launcher we had does not work with newer 6.x version.
> 
> What's your coding experience ? any chance we can request from you to make further modifications to this ? (Sound ? Change window Color when Error ? etc. etc..)
> 
> N.B. Sending mobile notifications and what not has been previously asked I feel like its a PITA ...is more complicated as the app would need to communicate via some platform


this launcher works fine with v6

MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


edit: got a win security error - not seen that before.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> this launcher works fine with v6
> 
> MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


Doesn't work for me...but at this point so far deep down to my neck into RAM OC it might got corrupted...Trows me an error..
Will double check when I get home.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Doesn't work for me...but at this point so far deep down to my neck into RAM OC it might got corrupted...Trows me an error..
> Will double check when I get home.


did you put the .exe in the memtestPro folder?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> did you put the .exe in the memtestPro folder?


Yes..
Extracted memtest to a folder...moved the launcher to that folder...memtest on its own works as normal, launcher trows error.
If I move launcher to memtest 5.x version..it works..

EDIT: by any chance you have an answer for any of my other questions posted a page back ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Yes..
> Extracted memtest to a folder...moved the launcher to that folder...memtest on its own works as normal, launcher trows error.
> If I move launcher to memtest 5.x version..it works..
> 
> EDIT: by any chance you have an answer for any of my other questions posted a page back ?


belay thaty on MTv6. It just gave me a windows security warning when trying to launch.. never seen that before. May have been a win sec update since I last used it on this x299 rig.









post number... page#s are different depending on how you set up OCN.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*


This one:
Quote:


> Guys I have a question..
> 
> When do you draw the line and assume in a logical manner that "Ok...it won't do it.. I have to move on"
> 
> I mean..for the past weeks I went trough All imaginable combinations of RAM V/SA/IO trying to get this OC to work...but it just won't do it..
> From 1.380 v / 1.08 SA/IO to 1.475 1.28 SA/IO I tried every single combination... My HCI log file starts to get close to a 3 figure in MB!
> I feel like I'm really close ....but still not stable....
> What angers me even more is that I constantly got higher in HCI with everything manual than on Auto which indicates the latest Bios does a craptastic job at training the RAM...
> But does my BIOS fail only at training or are there other settings deep under...
> 
> I loosened the RTL's & IOL's on my last part of testing so I switched them on Auto...no improvement...
> Tried to play with tRFC / tREFI
> Pushed tCKE higher...lower...in between...AUTO...
> What can I adjust next ?
> 
> I mean...I'm not aiming for some unbelievable 4200+ speeds with C10 or whatever its a mere 3733 at C16....
> Looking at the Spreadsheet on the OP doesn't help either... here I am pushing 1.475 with over 1.25 SA&IO and others are having higher performance on 1.35 v.... IS THIS EVEN REAL!?


At this point seriously thinking about benchmark my daily use and see if I really need 32GB and if not sell the kit and buy a 2x8GB kit and call it a day.. but what if its not the RAM to blame ?! And I'm not a quitter as well... so there is my Ego in play as well

Lose lose any way I go..

As of today, checked couple of websites, my kit sells for little over 500 pounds here in the UK, having the G.Skill life warranty I can sell it easily close to retail price...


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @49/48 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4200MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.2v -- VCCIO 1.175v -- HCI 400%:*


----------



## pion

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> GSAT 10h
> 
> But only 2133..
> Why can't I use XMP?
> Is is just that the timings are wrong?






XMP memtest86 5h+ no errors.
Trying a second run.


----------



## dante`afk

Hey folks

I never went too deep into ram overclocking, but do you have any suggestions on how to get the max out of my kit?

I have a 32gb gskill tridentZ rgb CL17 3600 kit (F4-3600C17D-16GTZR) here with samsung B-dies. I bumped the vdimm to 1.45 and can run the kit with no mem errors at 4133 (more does my board not allow) with the same timings 17-17-38. However if i try to tighten the timings, be it 16-17-38 or 17-17-36 it would not boot up properly.

Is there anything else I can try out or is that the max my kit is capable to do?

thanks!


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dante`afk*
> 
> Hey folks
> 
> I never went too deep into ram overclocking, but do you have any suggestions on how to get the max out of my kit?
> 
> I have a 32gb gskill tridentZ rgb CL17 3600 kit (F4-3600C17D-16GTZR) here with samsung B-dies. I bumped the vdimm to 1.45 and can run the kit with no mem errors at 4133 (more does my board not allow) with the same timings 17-17-38. However if i try to tighten the timings, be it 16-17-38 or 17-17-36 it would not boot up properly.
> 
> Is there anything else I can try out or is that the max my kit is capable to do?
> 
> thanks!


More voltage may well be the first port of call. What are you testing with ?


----------



## ogider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> I made a simple AutoHotkey script for launching 12 instances of the free version of HCI MemTest and automatically entering 1024 MB and starting the test. It arranges all the windows in a nice 3 x 4 grid. Copy the code into an .ahk file and run it from the HCI MemTest folder. Edit the values as needed for other processors/memory combinations. Default is for 8700K/16GB, which I'm playing with right now.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> sleep 1000
> xpos = -219
> Loop, 12
> {
> xpos += 222
> 
> if A_Index < 5
> ypos = 5
> else if (A_Index < 9)
> ypos = 261
> else
> ypos = 517
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1024{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
> xpos = -219
> }


Thanks.
Working great.


----------



## sdch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Thanks for doing so + rep!
> The Launcher we had does not work with newer 6.x version.
> 
> What's your coding experience ? any chance we can request from you to make further modifications to this ? (Sound ? Change window Color when Error ? etc. etc..)
> 
> N.B. Sending mobile notifications and what not has been previously asked I feel like its a PITA ...is more complicated as the app would need to communicate via some platform


You can send push notifications to your phone using Pushbullet. Add this to the very end of the script and change the Access Token to the one for your account (e.g. G8aldIDL93ldFADFwp9032ADF2klj3ld).

Code:



Code:


WinWaitActive, MemTest Error

PB_Token   := "G8aldIDL93ldFADFwp9032ADF2klj3ld"
PB_Title   := "HCI Memtest Error"
PB_Message := "Your memory OC isn't stable!"

WinHTTP := ComObjCreate("WinHTTP.WinHttpRequest.5.1")
WinHTTP.SetProxy(0)
WinHTTP.Open("POST", "https://api.pushbullet.com/v2/pushes", 0)
WinHTTP.SetCredentials(PB_Token, "", 0)
WinHTTP.SetRequestHeader("Content-Type", "application/json")
PB_Body := "{""type"": ""note"", ""title"": """ PB_Title """, ""body"": """ PB_Message """}"
WinHTTP.Send(PB_Body)

You can see the phone notification pop up in this video:






Alternatively, if you just want to play a sound, only add this to the very end of the script:

Code:



Code:


WinWaitActive, MemTest Error
SoundPlay, %A_WinDir%\Media\Windows Background.wav, wait


----------



## Jawnathin

How do you all feel about 1.45v or 1.5v for Samsung b die and 24/7 use? I think G.Skill has some memory spec'd at those voltages but seems pretty high compared to the standard DDR4 spec.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jawnathin*
> 
> How do you all feel about 1.45v or 1.5v for Samsung b die and 24/7 use? I think G.Skill has some memory spec'd at those voltages but seems pretty high compared to the standard DDR4 spec.


I keep it at/under 1.45v for 24/7 use but I've used as high as 1.52v for benching.

On a side note, on my 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 CL14 I B-Dies set the memory voltage, booted into a Puppy Linux USB, was running GSAT, had been snoozing, my PC rebooted. I thought I'll worry about it later.

Got up, booted into BIOS, had set two channels to 1.9v by mistake, put it back to 1.45v.









Ran GSAT for two hours, zero errors.


----------



## Carillo

7820X @ 5100-3,4-4000CL16

Passed Memtest 1000% @ 1.42v Dim 1.20 io and 1.20 SA


----------



## Jawnathin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I keep it at/under 1.45v for 24/7 use but I've used as high as 1.52v for benching.


Thanks. I'll keep it at or under 1.45v as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carillo*
> 
> 7820X @ 5100-3,4-4000CL16


Wow, are those OC and Mesh settings stable for 24/7 use? 5.1ghz and 3.4ghz mesh is among the highest I've seen. I can probably get mine to boot that high, maybe do a bench, but don't think I could get that stable unless I went exotic with cooling. Impressive result!


----------



## Carillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jawnathin*
> 
> Thanks. I'll keep it at or under 1.45v as well.
> Wow, are those OC and Mesh settings stable for 24/7 use? 5.1ghz and 3.4ghz mesh is among the highest I've seen. I can probably get mine to boot that high, maybe do a bench, but don't think I could get that stable unless I went exotic with cooling. Impressive result!


Thanks mate







Well, i just got my mobo last week so this overclock is pretty fresh.(Had Strix before) I did pass Prime95 26.6 NON AVX for 1 hour, and i have to mention that HT is disabled for gaming performance.I have been gaming for hours without any issues. So i guess its stable for my use. I can even run Cinebench R15 @ 5.2ghz with HT enabled @ 1.355V but its def not stable


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jawnathin*
> 
> How do you all feel about 1.45v or 1.5v for Samsung b die and 24/7 use? I think G.Skill has some memory spec'd at those voltages but seems pretty high compared to the standard DDR4 spec.


The healthy ceiling on 24/7 vdimm is more related to the cpu than to the sticks. A strong IMC and 1.45V is no problem. The 6950X I have here has been running 3400c13 on the ram with 1.45V basically since the 6950X launched. NOt an issue.
Just as an FYI - Intel sets the VDIMM limitation for DRAM manufactures specific to the CPU/Platform generation.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> I made a simple AutoHotkey script for launching 12 instances of the free version of HCI MemTest and automatically entering 1024 MB and starting the test. It arranges all the windows in a nice 3 x 4 grid. Copy the code into an .ahk file and run it from the HCI MemTest folder. Edit the values as needed for other processors/memory combinations. Default is for 8700K/16GB, which I'm playing with right now.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> sleep 1000
> xpos = -219
> Loop, 12
> {
> xpos += 222
> 
> if A_Index < 5
> ypos = 5
> else if (A_Index < 9)
> ypos = 261
> else
> ypos = 517
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1024{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
> xpos = -219
> }


Can you make a zip file and attach the script here?

When I copy and paste into the script file with MemTestPro 5 only one instance opens with no memory setting.









And yes, I changed the .exe name to memtest.exe.










And if I right click and run the script two instances open with no memory setting.


----------



## Carillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Can you make a zip file and attach the script here?
> 
> When I copy and paste into the script file with MemTestPro 5 only one instance opens with no memory setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, I changed the .exe name to memtest.exe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if I right click and run the script two instances open with no memory setting.


This code works with my memtestpro:

sleep 1000
xpos = -219
Loop, 10
{
xpos += 222

if A_Index < 5
ypos = 5
else if (A_Index < 9)
ypos = 261
else
ypos = 517

Run, memtestpro.exe
sleep 100
WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
Send 2048{Tab}{Enter}

if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
xpos = -219
}


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carillo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Can you make a zip file and attach the script here?
> 
> When I copy and paste into the script file with MemTestPro 5 only one instance opens with no memory setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, I changed the .exe name to memtest.exe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if I right click and run the script two instances open with no memory setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This code works with my memtestpro:
> 
> sleep 1000
> xpos = -219
> Loop, 10
> {
> xpos += 222
> 
> if A_Index < 5
> ypos = 5
> else if (A_Index < 9)
> ypos = 261
> else
> ypos = 517
> 
> Run, memtestpro.exe
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 2048{Tab}{Enter}
> 
> if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
> xpos = -219
> }
Click to expand...

Works,

Thank you.


----------



## Carillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Works,
> 
> Thank you.


NP


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carillo*
> 
> NP


so... how would you have this open 36 instances (800 per) ?

"or (A_Index = 36)" ?

eh, "Loop 36"


----------



## Jawnathin

Needs help with a script to run 36 simultaneous threads. That is very much a first world problem


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carillo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Can you make a zip file and attach the script here?
> 
> When I copy and paste into the script file with MemTestPro 5 only one instance opens with no memory setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, I changed the .exe name to memtest.exe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if I right click and run the script two instances open with no memory setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This code works with my memtestpro:
> 
> sleep 1000
> xpos = -219
> Loop, 10
> {
> xpos += 222
> 
> if A_Index < 5
> ypos = 5
> else if (A_Index < 9)
> ypos = 261
> else
> ypos = 517
> 
> Run, memtestpro.exe
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 2048{Tab}{Enter}
> 
> if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
> xpos = -219
> }
Click to expand...

MemTest just sent me the upgrade to MemTestPro 6.0.

By the way, if you bought 5.0 contact them and they'll send the free upgrade.









The code isn't working on 6.0 though, works just fine on 5.0.









Anyone have working code for 6.0?


----------



## Carillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> so... how would you have this open 36 instances (800 per) ?
> 
> "or (A_Index = 36)" ?
> 
> eh, "Loop 36"


Like this :

sleep 1000
xpos = -219
Loop, 36
{
xpos += 222

if A_Index < 5
ypos = 5
else if (A_Index < 9)
ypos = 261
else
ypos = 517

Run, memtestpro.exe
sleep 100
WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
Send 800{Tab}{Enter}

if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
xpos = -219
}


----------



## Jawnathin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> MemTest just sent me the upgrade to MemTestPro 6.0.
> 
> By the way, if you bought 5.0 contact them and they'll send the free upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The code isn't working on 6.0 though, works just fine on 5.0.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have working code for 6.0?


How recent is 6.0? Did it just come out? I bought my copy on October 30th.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jawnathin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> MemTest just sent me the upgrade to MemTestPro 6.0.
> 
> By the way, if you bought 5.0 contact them and they'll send the free upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The code isn't working on 6.0 though, works just fine on 5.0.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have working code for 6.0?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How recent is 6.0? Did it just come out? I bought my copy on October 30th.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, just contacted them, got the .bmp to convert to .zip etc. today.


----------



## sdch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> so... how would you have this open 36 instances (800 per) ?
> 
> "or (A_Index = 36)" ?
> 
> eh, "Loop 36"


I don't have a 7980XE to verify this. Play with "/nice" and "sleep 100" as needed.

Code:



Code:


xpos = 3
ypos = 5
Loop, 36
{
  if (A_Index == 10) || (A_Index == 19) || (A_Index == 28)
  {
    xpos = 3
    ypos += 186
  }

  Run, memTestPro.exe /nice
  sleep 100
  WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
  Send 800{Enter}

  xpos += 100
}

Push notifications don't work on the Pro version.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jawnathin*
> 
> Needs help with a script to run 36 simultaneous threads. That is very much a first world problem




Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carillo*
> 
> Like this :
> 
> sleep 1000
> xpos = -219
> Loop, 36
> {
> xpos += 222
> 
> if A_Index < 5
> ypos = 5
> else if (A_Index < 9)
> ypos = 261
> else
> ypos = 517
> 
> Run, memtestpro.exe
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 800{Tab}{Enter}
> 
> if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
> xpos = -219
> }


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> I don't have a 7980XE to verify this. Play with "/nice" and "sleep 100" as needed.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 36
> {
> if (A_Index == 10) || (A_Index == 19) || (A_Index == 28)
> {
> xpos = 3
> ypos += 186
> }
> 
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 800{Enter}
> 
> xpos += 100
> }
> 
> Push notifications don't work on the Pro version.


thanks guys, I just use this simple bat file... spreading out 36 instances is a bit much when you can just mouse over the taskbar and see all instances lined up nicely.









memtest36t32gb.bat.txt 1k .txt file


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carillo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Can you make a zip file and attach the script here?
> 
> When I copy and paste into the script file with MemTestPro 5 only one instance opens with no memory setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, I changed the .exe name to memtest.exe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if I right click and run the script two instances open with no memory setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This code works with my memtestpro:
> 
> sleep 1000
> xpos = -219
> Loop, 10
> {
> xpos += 222
> 
> if A_Index < 5
> ypos = 5
> else if (A_Index < 9)
> ypos = 261
> else
> ypos = 517
> 
> Run, memtestpro.exe
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 2048{Tab}{Enter}
> 
> if (A_Index = 4) or (A_Index = 8) or (A_Index = 12)
> xpos = -219
> }
Click to expand...

How can I space out 16 instances so for each one I can see the % of coverage and if it threw an error or not?

With yours, the bottom four cover the third row four.


----------



## sdch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> How can I space out 16 instances so for each one I can see the % of coverage and if it threw an error or not?
> 
> With yours, the bottom four cover the third row four.


How many rows and columns and how much memory per instance?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> How can I space out 16 instances so for each one I can see the % of coverage and if it threw an error or not?
> 
> With yours, the bottom four cover the third row four.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many rows and columns and how much memory per instance?
Click to expand...

Four rows, four columns, 1751 per instance. 16 instances total.

Or if it's easier two rows, eight columns.


----------



## sdch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Four rows, four columns, 1751 per instance. 16 instances total.
> 
> Or if it's easier two rows, eight columns.


2x8:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


xpos = 3
ypos = 5
Loop, 16
{
  if (A_Index == 9)
  {
    xpos = 3
    ypos += 322
  }

  Run, memTestPro.exe /nice
  sleep 100
  WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
  Send 1751{Enter}

  xpos += 261
}





4x4:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


xpos = 3
ypos = 5
Loop, 16
{
  if (A_Index == 5) || (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 13)
  {
    xpos = 3
    ypos += 322
  }

  Run, memTestPro.exe /nice
  sleep 100
  WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
  Send 1751{Enter}

  xpos += 261
}


----------



## Caradine




----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Four rows, four columns, 1751 per instance. 16 instances total.
> 
> Or if it's easier two rows, eight columns.
> 
> 
> 
> 2x8:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 16
> {
> if (A_Index == 9)
> {
> xpos = 3
> ypos += 322
> }
> 
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1751{Enter}
> 
> xpos += 261
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x4:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 16
> {
> if (A_Index == 5) || (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 13)
> {
> xpos = 3
> ypos += 322
> }
> 
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1751{Enter}
> 
> xpos += 261
> }
Click to expand...

Hey, I'd like to use HCI to test my 128GB kit overnight.

Can you make on 8 rows, 8 columns, 1511 memory, 64 instances of HCI?

KedarWolf--i7-5960x @4.7 CPU/4.4 cache---3200Mhz-C13-14-13-27-1T----1.45v---SA 1.128v (.343v Offset)---HCI 400%

Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200MHZ 4x8GB kit.


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> I went from 1.08 up (SA & IO) with lower values I get failed boots (Q-Code 51)
> Can't switch to older version of Bios as I had problems with earlier version. From RAID to UEFI...
> Took CPU out of equation...dropped to Default (both Core and Cache) than re-done my OC on CPU and passed 4h Prime95 (version 26.6 non AVX for 4h and 28.10 AVS for 4h)
> Before I had 5.1 Core / 4.9 Cache ..new OC at 5.0 Core / -1 AVX offset / 4.5 Cache...


My ram was only happy with 0.9625 VCCSA. Try starting at 0.95 and work up.


----------



## LunaP

Memtestpro auto loads multiple instances though which is why I bought it in the first place, just set under 1gb or 500mb from your max and hit go, it'll auto max out each and produce another every 5 seconds.

Running tests on my 128gb set easily.


----------



## sdch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Hey, I'd like to use HCI to test my 128GB kit overnight.
> 
> Can you make on 8 rows, 8 columns, 1511 memory, 64 instances of HCI?


This will let you run any combination you can think of. Just edit the first few lines to your preference (hspacing and vspacing control how much the windows overlap):

Code:



Code:


memory = 1511
rows = 4
columns = 16
hspacing = 0.4
vspacing = 0.6

y = 5
Loop, %rows%
{
  x = 3
  Loop, %columns%
  {
    Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
    WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
    WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
    WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
    x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
  }
  y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
}


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> I made a simple AutoHotkey script for launching 12 instances of the free version of HCI MemTest and automatically entering 1024 MB and starting the test. It arranges all the windows in a nice 3 x 4 grid. Copy the code into an .ahk file and run it from the HCI MemTest folder. Edit the values as needed for other processors/memory combinations. Default is for 8700K/16GB, which I'm playing with right now.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 12
> {
> if (A_Index == 5) || (A_Index == 9)
> {
> xpos = 3
> ypos += 256
> }
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1024{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> xpos += 222
> }


Thanks for sharing








In which .ahk file do I have to copy this code ?


----------



## becks

Hey guys...if SA & IO only work at a certain specific value! why the hell are XMP's over volt-ting like mad and we almost never fail any test ?!

Left HCI working on my PC with xmp on ..and surprise surprise RAM v 1.350 *SA 1.385 IO 1.385*!
IMC is chocking on 1.344 v (as read trough AIDA) while when I do my testing and go up and down with IO and SA I never see the IMC go over 1.288 v.

Anyhow .. was 500%+ this morning with no errors so will check it back in the afternoon and report if there's any error.

Maybe its a better strategy to just crank SA and IO to some wacky figure and get ram stable than work your way down and test ? Idk...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Memtestpro auto loads multiple instances though which is why I bought it in the first place, just set under 1gb or 500mb from your max and hit go, it'll auto max out each and produce another every 5 seconds.
> 
> Running tests on my 128gb set easily.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


And just $5 to the author of the program. that's is how we keep folks making great programs like MemTest.


----------



## NeoandGeo

Having an issue with RAM Training on the Maximus X Hero. The RAM trains well up until the point where it seems it's about as good as it can get:

Ignore the manual entry 22 for IO COMP A/B, this happens with all Auto RTL/IOL settings, this is just an example as I did a PrntScreen remotely forgetting that it didn't make an image file without the Win Key as well.









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







After it gets to the above point, it jumps to this:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Majority of the time it seems to be CH (A) as well if that matters, only once or twice has it happened on CH (B). After it jumps to that it won't retrain at all unless I change a DRAM setting, then it repeats the process, trains over a few restarts, gets well trained, then jumps to those values.

Current Timings I am using:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I have MRC Fastboot Disabled and MCH Full Check Enabled. I have tried entering the timings manually, but I fail to post when I force even one known working RTL figure. All of the settings in the RTL/IOL tab are default, and by default the BIOS has 21 set for I/O Comp.

Any idea what's going on? My current progress on getting this speed HCI 500% coverage stable was thwarted many minutes into the stressing:


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> Having an issue with RAM Training on the Maximus X Hero. The RAM trains well up until the point where it seems it's about as good as it can get:
> 
> Ignore the manual entry 22 for IO COMP A/B, this happens with all Auto RTL/IOL settings, this is just an example as I did a PrntScreen remotely forgetting that it didn't make an image file without the Win Key as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After it gets to the above point, it jumps to this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Majority of the time it seems to be CH (A) as well if that matters, only once or twice has it happened on CH (B). After it jumps to that it won't retrain at all unless I change a DRAM setting, then it repeats the process, trains over a few restarts, gets well trained, then jumps to those values.
> 
> Current Timings I am using:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have MRC Fastboot Disabled and MCH Full Check Enabled. I have tried entering the timings manually, but I fail to post when I force even one known working RTL figure. All of the settings in the RTL/IOL tab are default, and by default the BIOS has 21 set for I/O Comp.
> 
> Any idea what's going on? My current progress on getting this speed HCI 500% coverage stable was thwarted many minutes into the stressing:


try training the kit at 25 to 50mV higher voltage and set the "Eventual Dram Voltage" to the voltage you wantg it to run at once trained.
also - please post a snip of the cpuZ SPD tab.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*


Had a similar problem, fixed by doing a bit of "slot binning"


----------



## NeoandGeo

Info would be helpful. Full set of 32GB (4x8) G.Skill Ripjaws 3200Mhzc14 RAM. Running at 1.45v currently, on the high end. Would adding a tad more voltage hurt anything if its done for boot purposes and then settles into a 24/7 voltage?



I will try swapping them around to see if that helps. Can you ascertain from the info I have provided which slots I should swap?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> Info would be helpful. Full set of 32GB (4x8) G.Skill Ripjaws 3200Mhzc14 RAM. Running at 1.45v currently, on the high end. Would adding a tad more voltage hurt anything if its done for boot purposes and then settles into a 24/7 voltage?
> 
> 
> 
> I will try swapping them around to see if that helps. Can you ascertain from the info I have provided which slots I should swap?


no problem with training at 1.475V . See if it works.. the result helps to understand the issue


----------



## NeoandGeo

Alright. Will have to be this evening before I get back to my PC. Doing this investigation while doing work-related activities at work.

I mean you can't work from home on the weekends helping people troubleshoot their own stuff from home with your RTL/IOL out of whack









I did get a different result after 10 restarts. Mostly in line with what it should with only one IOL at 10, the 14 one was back to 6.

On another note, any good starting point of what settings to loosen to getting that single error sorted?


----------



## NIK1

I have been tweaking my GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR memory today,I have it overclocked to 3734
and have it tightened down to run 14 14 14 34 CR1 with 1.44v .On my Asus mb I noticed in the secondary settings Dram Write to Read Delay that's on auto with no value.Anyone know of a number to try in here since it does not show a value to what auto makes it.Also does tweaking this help with anything.


----------



## ogider

Nice timings with that low voltage.

Ps.Anyone have experience with DRAM VPP Voltage?

I have at 2.5V...
Has anyone raised this voltage and noticed positive results with getting higher memory clock?

And what is the safe maximum value?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Hey, I'd like to use HCI to test my 128GB kit overnight.
> 
> Can you make on 8 rows, 8 columns, 1511 memory, 64 instances of HCI?
> 
> 
> 
> This will let you run any combination you can think of. Just edit the first few lines to your preference (hspacing and vspacing control how much the windows overlap):
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> memory = 1511
> rows = 4
> columns = 16
> hspacing = 0.4
> vspacing = 0.6
> 
> y = 5
> Loop, %rows%
> {
> x = 3
> Loop, %columns%
> {
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
> WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
> WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
> WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
> x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
> }
> y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
> }
Click to expand...

I used your code but added below.

I find when loading 64 instances of MemTest I need to add the delays or my system will lock up a minute or so when they load too quick, then it interferes with them loading properly.

Takes a long time for all of them to load but when you're running 64 of them on a 128GB kit overnight it matters little anyways.

Edit: And your code is definitely one of the most usefull posts I've ever had on overclock.net.

If I could rep you five times each post I would!!









Code:



Code:


memory = 1853
rows = 4
columns = 16
hspacing = 0.8
vspacing = 0.8

y = 5
Loop, %rows%
{
  x = 3
  Loop, %columns%
  {
    Sleep 3000
    Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
    Sleep 3000
    WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 3000
    WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 3000
    WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
    x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
  }
  y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
}


----------



## LunaP

@CptSpig @Jpmboy or anyone

Ok back to it, I got 4.5 on 1.125v core
RAM now at 1.39v ( starting there and working up/down)

This is the 3200 CL14 kit 128gb kit 14-14-14-34-2t default

Now starting at 16-18-18-38-2t

Errors around 5-7% on memtest, all other settings in bios on auto atm including VCCIN/SA/Mesh

Where should I go from here or tweak up?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> Info would be helpful. Full set of 32GB (4x8) G.Skill Ripjaws 3200Mhzc14 RAM. Running at 1.45v currently, on the high end. Would adding a tad more voltage hurt anything if its done for boot purposes and then settles into a 24/7 voltage?
> 
> 
> 
> I will try swapping them around to see if that helps. Can you ascertain from the info I have provided which slots I should swap?


You can run say 1.47v boot voltage and 1,45v Eventual but i find my Ripjaws 5 4x8GB CL14 boots and trains just fine at 1.45/1,45.

I do have all the trainings enabled in BIOS though in the Timings section. I prefer it trains every boot and really doesn't add any boot time I feel.

It's likely unnecessary but I mean why not.


----------



## NeoandGeo

The only training trouble I seem to have is when going over 3866Mhz on this kit. 3733 and below training sticks. I have tried with all the options enabled over the default of a handful either disabled or on auto.

What about manual RTL/IOL entries, is it normal for me to not be able to lock those in with known to work fine values? I was able to do this for the most part on the IX Hero board.


----------



## sdch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Edit: And your code is definitely one of the most usefull posts I've ever had on overclock.net.
> 
> If I could rep you five times each post I would!!


Thank you! This thread has been a great resource for me so I wanted to share something in return.


----------



## LunaP

Update still fiddling with settings.



Bumped dram voltage to 1.42
Vcore to 1.130
and SA to .9
VCCIN to 1.1

Should I bump SA more due to the lower read times, also noticed that the latency increased a smidge by tightening the timings, am I off by a cycle here?



running another test.



Going to adjust tRFC and tFAW and retry.

UPDATE

Updated tRFC to 38 and tFAW to 360

Latency dropped insanely and speeds went up a bit.. . a 12.1ns latency drop holy crap lol this is fun!





Gonna start in 20 increment drops for tFAW and try to drop tRFC once more to 36.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf--i7-5960x @4.7 CPU/4.4 cache---3200Mhz-C14-15-14-27-2T----1.40v---SA 1.128v (.343v Offset)---HCI 370%

Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHZ 8x16GB kit.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf--i7-5960x @4.7 CPU/4.4 cache---3200Mhz-C13-14-13-25-1T----1.45v---SA 1.128v (.343v Offset)---HCI 400%

Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200MHZ 4x8GB kit.


----------



## Caradine

LunaP I would say that tRRD, tWTR_L are rather high, and raising tREFI is likely to offer more stable latency decreases than lowering tRFC further. Well, not sure about the tREFI with 8 16gb DIMMS


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caradine*
> 
> LunaP I would say that tRRD, tWTR_L are rather high, and raising tREFI is likely to offer more stable latency decreases than lowering tRFC further. Well, not sure about the tREFI with 8 16gb DIMMS


Ahh whoops I haven't updated in a bit cuz I was finally getting somewhere, it needed slightly higher timings, I'm working up this time from 3600-3733->3800 for timing profiles that way in case I have to lower due to higher CPU clocks I'll be good.

Right now running steady at 3800 at 16-17-16-36 2t and 350 tRFC just hit 80% on HCI and still going, I run TM5 prior for 22 minutes for 3 full cycles first before I feel I'm ready for an overnight test.

I'll be bumping to 16-17-17-36 for 4000 next though I'm pretty sure I'll have to jump to 17-17-17-37 for stability. I gave up on 1t since the benefits were barely diff than with 2t tweaked low.

I wanna run benchmarks and programs on each to get a feel for which benefits me best. IMC on these chips is insane <3 I love it! Haven't had to adjust my vcore once even.


----------



## dante`afk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moorhen2*
> 
> More voltage may well be the first port of call. What are you testing with ?


memtest

IO/SA=1,25V | RAM=1,45V


----------



## dante`afk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> Having an issue with RAM Training on the Maximus X Hero. The RAM trains well up until the point where it seems it's about as good as it can get:
> 
> Ignore the manual entry 22 for IO COMP A/B, this happens with all Auto RTL/IOL settings, this is just an example as I did a PrntScreen remotely forgetting that it didn't make an image file without the Win Key as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After it gets to the above point, it jumps to this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Majority of the time it seems to be CH (A) as well if that matters, only once or twice has it happened on CH (B). After it jumps to that it won't retrain at all unless I change a DRAM setting, then it repeats the process, trains over a few restarts, gets well trained, then jumps to those values.
> 
> Current Timings I am using:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have MRC Fastboot Disabled and MCH Full Check Enabled. I have tried entering the timings manually, but I fail to post when I force even one known working RTL figure. All of the settings in the RTL/IOL tab are default, and by default the BIOS has 21 set for I/O Comp.
> 
> Any idea what's going on? My current progress on getting this speed HCI 500% coverage stable was thwarted many minutes into the stressing:


how are you able to use memtweakit? the tool does nothing here for me, same board


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> @CptSpig @Jpmboy or anyone
> 
> Ok back to it, I got 4.5 on 1.125v core
> RAM now at 1.39v ( starting there and working up/down)
> 
> This is the 3200 CL14 kit 128gb kit 14-14-14-34-2t default
> 
> Now starting at 16-18-18-38-2t
> 
> Errors around 5-7% on memtest, all other settings in bios on auto atm including VCCIN/SA/Mesh
> 
> Where should I go from here or tweak up?


Try setting [email protected], [email protected] [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] vdimm @ 1.420v is good, vsa @ 0.900v and [email protected] 1.165v. When done post another screen shot of your timing configurator. need to try and get your cpu core voltage down. What is your cashe OC and voltage?


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Try setting [email protected], [email protected] [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] vdimm @ 1.420v is good, vsa @ 0.900v and [email protected] 1.165v. When done post another screen shot of your timing configurator. need to try and get your cpu core voltage down. What is your cashe OC and voltage?


At the time everything but vcore and dram as auto,
I started over from 3600 at getting stability and moving to the next, got 16-16-16-36 flawless at 3600 at 330 tRFC didn't try lower since I ran an hour test, then for 3733 needed 16-17-16-36, which went fine and same settings applied miraculously for 3800 as well. SA is now sitting around 0.880 VCCIO is at .905 I believe, and its running fine, I was working on 4.5 for the cpu, but disabling avx in prime since it was triggering my offsets somehow , I thought it didn't utilize it lol.

After I finish this run I'll retry 4000 again with those settings and post back, I'm using TM5 to test for 22 minutes ( 3 cycles ) for ram to get me a good idea, since if it passes that usually means 95% I'm gonna hit 100% in HCI, which takes just around an hour. Highest temp is 73C on 1 core when maxing on prime,

here's from 3600 ( I ran this after priming everything and passing tests



3800



3800 after bumping mesh to 3000



been at it since yesterday but having fun.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> At the time everything but vcore and dram as auto,
> I started over from 3600 at getting stability and moving to the next, got 16-16-16-36 flawless at 3600 at 330 tRFC didn't try lower since I ran an hour test, then for 3733 needed 16-17-16-36, which went fine and same settings applied miraculously for 3800 as well. SA is now sitting around 0.880 VCCIO is at .905 I believe, and its running fine, I was working on 4.5 for the cpu, but disabling avx in prime since it was triggering my offsets somehow , I thought it didn't utilize it lol.
> 
> After I finish this run I'll retry 4000 again with those settings and post back, I'm using TM5 to test for 22 minutes ( 3 cycles ) for ram to get me a good idea, since if it passes that usually means 95% I'm gonna hit 100% in HCI, which takes just around an hour. Highest temp is 73C on 1 core when maxing on prime,
> 
> here's from 3600 ( I ran this after priming everything and passing tests
> 
> 
> 
> 3800
> 
> 
> 
> 3800 after bumping mesh to 3000
> 
> 
> 
> been at it since yesterday but having fun.


Curious - what's your VCCIN? I noticed 1004 removed that unless SVID is disabled... On "auto" it was going to 2.0v


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Curious - what's your VCCIN? I noticed 1004 removed that unless SVID is disabled... On "auto" it was going to 2.0v


I'd need to reboot and check. just tried disabling avx in prime but its still using it, and giving hardware failure alerts in the torture test.. hmm k needed .005 more voltage lol

ok so VCCIN on auto is currently set at....doesn't even say, still on auto, what program would show it? Doesn't show in HWInfo64 either.

Hmm prime just fails instantly now on a few cores or workers apparently..


----------



## cekim

1004 bios seems to have broken 1T on my memory. This happened on R5E as well. Early bios could do 1T, later bios could not. Hmmm....


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> 1004 bios seems to have broken 1T on my memory. This happened on R5E as well. Early bios could do 1T, later bios could not. Hmmm....


Running 1004 as well and can only boot with 1t but not run stability cuz it just BSOD's lol, though the trade off vs that or lower tRFC seems to yield the same so idk, also odd wth prime its been failing constantly and decided to just rerun it fresh after it failed vs rebooting and adjusting and now suddenly its not failing at all, dunno *** is going on, or if its even reliable anymore.

Gonna try OCCT after this


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Running 1004 as well and can only boot with 1t but not run stability cuz it just BSOD's lol, though the trade off vs that or lower tRFC seems to yield the same so idk, also odd wth prime its been failing constantly and decided to just rerun it fresh after it failed vs rebooting and adjusting and now suddenly its not failing at all, dunno *** is going on, or if its even reliable anymore.
> 
> Gonna try OCCT after this


confirmed - as with R5E - 1T goes away but overall performance makes up for it... oops - this is the wrong thread for this...


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> confirmed - as with R5E - 1T goes away but overall performance makes up for it... oops - this is the wrong thread for this...


Not really its about DDR4 stability , and CR counts lol

Soo near 100% in on a few instances got an error of a 20000 difference, based on below any suggestions on what I should tweak? First guess is tRFC but curious if anyone else has gotten a "difference of" error.

@CptSpig


Benchmarks, gaming 4k and recording/streaming same time @ slow settings on obs yield no issue, handbrake no issues either or the xh264 but this stability part just makes me wanna ensure I'm not gonna have an issue later on.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*


That's the only kind of error you get with HCI









I got errors ranging from dif - 20000 to 2.
But thorough testing didn't revealed a lower difference meaning that you are closer to stability ...or at least not in my case.

You might be in same boat as me...I can boot fine, I have great latency and bandwidths and everything but I can't make it stable whatever I try or do...


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Try setting [email protected], [email protected] [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] vdimm @ 1.420v is good, vsa @ 0.900v and [email protected] 1.165v. When done post another screen shot of your timing configurator. need to try and get your cpu core voltage down. What is your cashe OC and voltage?


Went ahead and ditched my tests and tried your settings



Cache is at 2800

Cache voltage is at Auto for now, not sure where I can find that # at that its grabbing. Running TM5 atm for errors. Errored within the first 10 seconds lol, definitely need to loosen something, I'll pull back on tRFC for now. tRFC 450 errored fast too, dialing back to 500 which would put me below where 3800 was/on the dot technically lol, so far no errors. yeah definitely a no go, I'll wait for further direction/suggestions, I think I'll have better luck w/t he 3800 unless u think 3733 would be best given I"m using a 100 block.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> That's the only kind of error you get with HCI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got errors ranging from dif - 20000 to 2.
> But thorough testing didn't revealed a lower difference meaning that you are closer to stability ...or at least not in my case.
> 
> You might be in same boat as me...I can boot fine, I have great latency and bandwidths and everything but I can't make it stable whatever I try or do...


Yeah its lik e97-99% perfect, I can do normal stuff, render, stream, game all at the same time no issue lol...but these damn tests make me on edge about "what if"


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Went ahead and ditched my tests and tried your settings
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cache is at 2800
> 
> Cache voltage is at Auto for now, not sure where I can find that # at that its grabbing. Running TM5 atm for errors. Errored within the first 10 seconds lol, definitely need to loosen something, I'll pull back on tRFC for now. tRFC 450 errored fast too, dialing back to 500 which would put me below where 3800 was/on the dot technically lol, so far no errors. yeah definitely a no go, I'll wait for further direction/suggestions, I think I'll have better luck w/t he 3800 unless u think 3733 would be best given I"m using a 100 block.
> Yeah its lik e97-99% perfect, I can do normal stuff, render, stream, game all at the same time no issue lol...but these damn tests make me on edge about "what if"


Set vsa to 0.950v and trtp to 6 remember cas+trcd+trtp=tras +\-2. Set trfc back to auto.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Went ahead and ditched my tests and tried your settings
> 
> Cache is at 2800
> 
> Cache voltage is at Auto for now, not sure where I can find that # at that its grabbing. Running TM5 atm for errors. Errored within the first 10 seconds lol, definitely need to loosen something, I'll pull back on tRFC for now. tRFC 450 errored fast too, dialing back to 500 which would put me below where 3800 was/on the dot technically lol, so far no errors. yeah definitely a no go, I'll wait for further direction/suggestions, I think I'll have better luck w/t he 3800 unless u think 3733 would be best given I"m using a 100 block.
> Yeah its lik e97-99% perfect, I can do normal stuff, render, stream, game all at the same time no issue lol...but these damn tests make me on edge about "what if"


Interesting - I can't even boot with these settings. (Memory detect error).


----------



## LunaP

Ok Update so far, HCI has been running since almost 4am this morning, and its about 3pm now. 3600 is at least stable (16-16-16-36-2t), time to figure out what went wrong w/ 3800 and 4000. SA .9 Mesh 2800 for now, bumping back to 3000 after, but needs vcore +.010 for 3200.

Forgot to lower vCORE as this worked before at 1.112 and I had bumped to 1.115 just in case. I can drop tRFC down to 290 before I start seeing issues, but for now looking for stability. RAM is 1.4v atm but works at 1.38 as well, will drop and test again, just updating my bios profiles so I can run proper benchmarks once this is all good.



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Interesting - I can't even boot with these settings. (Memory detect error).


That's more so probably ur timings, I found if it didn't like even 1 timing it wouldn't detect, so I'd have to power down, its finnicky but helps save time of booting to windows as well.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> That's more so probably ur timings, I found if it didn't like even 1 timing it wouldn't detect, so I'd have to power down, its finnicky but helps save time of booting to windows as well.


That was with your timings...

I'm very close on 3600C15 @1.4, but still getting single errors deep into the test...

This config gives a very nice bump to both real and synthetic benchmarks over 3400C14.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> That was with your timings...
> 
> I'm very close on 3600C15 @1.4, but still getting single errors deep into the test...
> 
> This config gives a very nice bump to both real and synthetic benchmarks over 3400C14.


Hmm I got 15-16-15-35 working for a bit, what are urs? 15-15-15-35? I kinda skipped over 3600 once I had stable at 16 cuz I wanted to push lol


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Hmm I got 15-16-15-35 working for a bit, what are urs? 15-15-15-35? I kinda skipped over 3600 once I had stable at 16 cuz I wanted to push lol


Yes, 57nS latency in aida64 as well...

Still trying to find DIMM/SA/IO voltages that allow tightening RFC/FAW enough to be worth it.


----------



## JMTH

Got the RVE10 installed and plugged my old oc values in the bios expecting it not to boot or like the settings. To my surprise it booted right up and passed a 200% Hci test right off the bat! I did adjust the VCCSA offset though. I always knew that the VCCSA on my deluxe-ii wasn't right, and this showed it. For the RVE10 I only had to add an offset of .016 to get to 0.963. Where on my deluxe-ii since I couldn't see what it was I was putting in whatever is in my sig lol can't see it on my phone. Anyway whatever value I was using made the VCCSA 1.040, way too high for my chip.
Going to go through all the stress testing then I'll post my final settings. So far this RVE10 is rock solid.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Yes, 57nS latency in aida64 as well...
> 
> Still trying to find DIMM/SA/IO voltages that allow tightening RFC/FAW enough to be worth it.


Hmm I was getting 54.0 on mine for 3800 but tRFC was 350 since 330 would cause an error or 2 on the tests... I'm at 1163% on HCI so I'm calling this batch good. gonna go back to getting 3800 and 4000 stable, I think I like 3800 best cuz of hte throughput and timings are nearly identical to 3600.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Hmm I was getting 54.0 on mine for 3800 but tRFC was 350 since 330 would cause an error or 2 on the tests... I'm at 1163% on HCI so I'm calling this batch good. gonna go back to getting 3800 and 4000 stable, I think I like 3800 best cuz of hte throughput and timings are nearly identical to 3600.


I've yet to get anything past 30 minutes on SAT @ 3800... Eventually, I get an error.

Need to do more on 3600.

You should gain a little with cache @3000 vs 2800. Takes 1.10v for me as 1.05 or less eventually produce a memory error (cache corruption reported as a memory error? I'd assume I'd get an MCE on parity/ecc internally, but....). It's hard to tell what causes what, but seems consistent that in any given setup, 1.05v @ 3000 cache gets errors and 1.10v does not. Those errors go away with loser timings or higher vcache... interesting behavior...


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I've yet to get anything past 30 minutes on SAT @ 3800... Eventually, I get an error.
> 
> Need to do more on 3600.
> 
> You should gain a little with cache @3000 vs 2800. Takes 1.10v for me as 1.05 or less eventually produce a memory error (cache corruption reported as a memory error? I'd assume I'd get an MCE on parity/ecc internally, but....). It's hard to tell what causes what, but seems consistent that in any given setup, 1.05v @ 3000 cache gets errors and 1.10v does not. Those errors go away with loser timings or higher vcache... interesting behavior...


Yeah but higher vca....wait n/m I'm thinking mesh which needs vcore and or cache, whats a good setting to start w/ for vcache? offset or set value?

Also 1.05v on what SA or vcache? Atm running 15-15-15-35 and its passed 3 cycles on TM5 so gonna HCI in a bit after some h264 runs and mesh kicks.


Gonna pump mesh and SA a smidge and try 1.05 on on vcore cache.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Yeah but higher vca....wait n/m I'm thinking mesh which needs vcore and or cache, whats a good setting to start w/ for vcache? offset or set value?
> 
> Also 1.05v on what SA or vcache? Atm running 15-15-15-35 and its passed 3 cycles on TM5 so gonna HCI in a bit after some h264 runs and mesh kicks.
> 
> 
> Gonna pump mesh and SA a smidge and try 1.05 on on vcore cache.


I see a lot of people running .9x to 1.0v on mesh voltage for 3GHz, which is surprising to me since I see instability quickly with anything less than 1.05v and suspect I'm seeing issues up until 1.10v.

So, I don't have an answer for you yet - just 0.95->1.10v for mesh for 3Ghz is the range I've seen/experienced.

I would start with fixed and see about offset/adaptive later.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I see a lot of people running .9x to 1.0v on mesh voltage for 3GHz, which is surprising to me since I see instability quickly with anything less than 1.05v and suspect I'm seeing issues up until 1.10v.
> 
> So, I don't have an answer for you yet - just 0.95->1.10v for mesh for 3Ghz is the range I've seen/experienced.
> 
> I would start with fixed and see about offset/adaptive later.


Whats the main difference between adaptive and offset, offset allows up to a certain range? while adaptive detects if said range is required?


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Whats the main difference between adaptive and offset, offset allows up to a certain range? while adaptive detects if said range is required?


Offset is as described - just adds or subtracts the provided offset from whatever voltage the chip was going to use otherwise

Adaptive includes an offset component, but also the ability to override the highest value in the table/curve that is used to match frequency to voltage. You can't set an adaptive peak lower than that already burned into the chip's internal tables. You can however specify MORE voltage (as well as a negative offset).


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Offset is as described - just adds or subtracts the provided offset from whatever voltage the chip was going to use otherwise
> 
> Adaptive includes an offset component, but also the ability to override the highest value in the table/curve that is used to match frequency to voltage. You can't set an adaptive peak lower than that already burned into the chip's internal tables. You can however specify MORE voltage (as well as a negative offset).


Ah ok, I know I need to dwelve into that soon with setting offsets to diff cores individually so I can lower voltage/temps a bit more.

Ok passed 3 cycles again



Gonna try at least 1 more tweak before hci might be able to hit 54 ns


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Ah ok, I know I need to dwelve into that soon with setting offsets to diff cores individually so I can lower voltage/temps a bit more.
> 
> Ok passed 3 cycles again
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna try at least 1 more tweak before hci might be able to hit 54 ns


BTW - getting almost, if not all the same real-world performance out of FAW/RFC tuning @ 3400C14 as I was 3600C15, but with fewer errors and less voltage so far...

Aida shows lower throughput, though similar latency (which is what I would expect from a synthetic).


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> BTW - getting almost, if not all the same real-world performance out of FAW/RFC tuning @ 3400C14 as I was 3600C15, but with fewer errors and less voltage so far...
> 
> Aida shows lower throughput, though similar latency (which is what I would expect from a synthetic).


Yeah it seems between 3200-3600 not much is required since I'm @ 1.38 now still pushing, I lowered tRFC down to 300 and tFAW another bit to 34 and its still chompin no errors yet, and 55.2 ns lol highest throughput is 102gb

I'd imagine at 3200 though you can probably drop tRFC down to at least 240-260 and tfaw to 30, also have you tried 14-14-14-27 (@ 3200 )? It ran on mine, curious if it'd peak on yours.
I'm almost tempted to try 1t


----------



## Testier

@cekim OT: Regarding your analysis of Mesh vs Ring on heavily multithreaded apps, can I ask if the app in question uses MPI? (Message Passing Interface)

On topic: Regarding tRFC, how heavily does it impact memory performance?


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> @cekim OT: Regarding your analysis of Mesh vs Ring on heavily multithreaded apps, can I ask if the app in question uses MPI? (Message Passing Interface)
> 
> On topic: Regarding tRFC, how heavily does it impact memory performance?


I'm still trying to isolate it down, but the one with the most pronounced regression that I've observed does indeed use MPI.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I'm still trying to isolate it down, but the one with the most pronounced regression that I've observed does indeed use MPI.


Can I ask what app are you using? Is it applications that uses finite method solvers?(FEM,FVM,FDM,etc)


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Can I ask what app are you using? Is it applications that uses finite method solvers?(FEM,FVM,FDM,etc)


No, the app in question is an RTL verilog simulator (proprietary, not open-source) that has a mode that allows it to run in parallel mode.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> No, the app in question is an RTL verilog simulator (proprietary, not open-source) that has a mode that allows it to run in parallel mode.


I see. Thanks for the information. Is it extremely memory intensive?

I am not familiar with RTL Verilog at all. Is it an iterative solver?


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> I see. Thanks for the information. Is it extremely memory intensive?


If a design is large enough to make use of parallel simulation, then it likely has a decent sized memory foot-print (1's to 10's of GB of resident is normal) though I see this regression in performance in < 1G simulation image runs as well.

Luna - tRFC won't boot much below 240 @ 3200MHz Now that this is sorted - trying to tighten some other things.

Testier - so far, I've picked up 11% application performance tuning tRFC/tFAW down at the same 3200CL14.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> If a design is large enough to make use of parallel simulation, then it likely has a decent sized memory foot-print (1's to 10's of GB of resident is normal) though I see this regression in performance in < 1G simulation image runs as well.
> 
> Luna - tRFC won't boot much below 240 @ 3200MHz Now that this is sorted - trying to tighten some other things.
> 
> Testier - so far, I've picked up 11% application performance tuning tRFC/tFAW down at the same 3200CL14.


Interesting,,,, FPGA/ASIC Design? I never seen those. The only electric design program I have touched is EAGLE before.

I will take a look at the memory stuff later. I am currently running 16-18-18-38-1t-650 with 4 x16gb sticks at 1.35v.

OT: with regards to mesh vs ring, I think at the 28 core level and with many of the Xeon Features enabled(Omni Path, 3x UPI, 14 SATA), it likely is better than Ring bus but at 18 core I am not sure. Are the BW-E 18 cores on 1.5 Ring or 2 Ring?


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Interesting,,,, FPGA/ASIC Design? I never seen those. The only electric design program I have touched is EAGLE before.
> 
> I will take a look at the memory stuff later. I am currently running 16-18-18-38-1t-650 with 4 x16gb sticks at 1.35v.
> 
> OT: with regards to mesh vs ring, I think at the 28 core level and with many of the Xeon Features enabled(Omni Path, 3x UPI, 14 SATA), it likely is better than Ring bus but at 18 core I am not sure.


I've said the same - I don't think the mesh choice was the wrong one for the future, but it caused some isolated pain this generation.

Yes, ASIC/FPGA design.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> If a design is large enough to make use of parallel simulation, then it likely has a decent sized memory foot-print (1's to 10's of GB of resident is normal) though I see this regression in performance in < 1G simulation image runs as well.
> 
> Luna - tRFC won't boot much below 240 @ 3200MHz Now that this is sorted - trying to tighten some other things.
> 
> Testier - so far, I've picked up 11% application performance tuning tRFC/tFAW down at the same 3200CL14.


Looking forward to your test results between 3200 and 3600 at max tweaked timings/settings.

Ok I'm done w/3600 at this point



240 tRFC wouldn't boot 260 did and ran fine but got a mem managemenet BSOD 280 is fine, but just to be safe I'm probably gonna back to 300 which was already stable. tFAW is now 32 though.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Looking forward to your test results between 3200 and 3600 at max tweaked timings/settings.


Identical real-world app. To the second...

Difference is finding a truly stable setup for 3600C15 is still eluding me. It runs well enough to test applications, but long enough in SAT and I'll get an error. I run those sims for days (or more), so not good enough...

Here's what I have so far with 3200 that passes an hour of SAT (that's all I had time to do) and application performance matches 3600C15:
VCCIO = 1.05v
VCCSA = 0.95v
VDIMM = 1.38v (boot and eventual)
VMESH = 1.10v


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Identical real-world app. To the second...
> 
> Difference is finding a truly stable setup for 3600C15 is still eluding me. It runs well enough to test applications, but long enough in SAT and I'll get an error. I run those sims for days (or more), so not good enough...
> 
> Here's what I have so far with 3200 that passes an hour of SAT (that's all I had time to do) and application performance matches 3600C15:
> VCCIO = 1.05v
> VCCSA = 0.95v
> VDIMM = 1.38v (boot and eventual)
> VMESH = 1.10v


Hmm slightly faster response on my timings then but barely by much, 14-14-14-27 worked fine for me on 3200 @ 1.35v no errors, 13-14-14-27 booted but gave errors, was worth a shot, I can share my 3600 settings if you wanna try them.

right now attempting 3600 @ c14, waiting for results.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Hmm slightly faster response on my timings then but barely by much, 14-14-14-27 worked fine for me on 3200 @ 1.35v no errors, 13-14-14-27 booted but gave errors, was worth a shot, I can share my 3600 settings if you wanna try them.
> 
> right now attempting 3600 @ c14, waiting for results.


sure - shoot... gaming right now though, I'll try them later or tomorrow...


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Whats the main difference between adaptive and offset, offset allows up to a certain range? while adaptive detects if said range is required?


*
Offset Mode:* In Offset Mode, we can add or subtract voltage from the CPU's default voltage for a given CPU core ratio. The default voltage scales according to the active multiplier ratio. This provides power saving when application loading is light. The side effect to using offset mode is that any offset value we select will be applied to all core ratios. This can result in too much or too little voltage for a given ratio, which leads to instability.
If you wish to use Offset Mode, then bear in mind that the Vcore displayed in the UEFI is simply a snapshot of the offset voltage stack; the firmware interface only places a partial load on the CPU. The full-load voltage in the operating system will be different, so you will need to check the voltage by running a suitable application within the OS. Use Ai Suite to check the full-load voltage. Also, bear in mind that the default voltage receiving the offset changes with the applied CPU ratio.
*Adaptive Mode:* Adaptive Mode was developed to account for the inadequacies of Offset Mode for overclocking. We use it to specify the voltage used when the CPU is faced with a heavy application load. The voltage we set is the maximum voltage the PCU is allowed to apply, which takes all the load-related guesswork hampering Offset mode out of the equation. The other boon of Adaptive Mode is that it does not alter voltages for non-Turbo CPU ratios, allowing us to enjoy the benefits of power saving without the voltage adjustment range issues presented by the Offset Mode function. We recommend Adaptive Mode for all normal overclocking.



To use Adaptive Mode, simply enter the full load voltage you wish to use in the Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage box. So, if you wish to set 1.20V for full load, just type 1.20 into the box. The target full-load voltage is shown in the Total Adaptive Mode CPU Core Voltage area.
Note that the Adaptive voltage target works on the Turbo ratios only. So, if you change the CPU strap and use a non-Turbo CPU ratio, the value in the Adaptive voltage setting box will not be applied. That's why there is the option to apply an offset when in Adaptive mode. The offset value is added or subtracted from the Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage box, and the total is displayed in the Total Adaptive Mode CPU Core Voltage pane. The side effect of applying an offset is that it affects the entire voltage stack - from idle to Turbo ratios, which can limit the usable offset voltage range.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> *
> Offset Mode:* In Offset Mode, we can add or subtract voltage from the CPU's default voltage for a given CPU core ratio. The default voltage scales according to the active multiplier ratio. This provides power saving when application loading is light. The side effect to using offset mode is that any offset value we select will be applied to all core ratios. This can result in too much or too little voltage for a given ratio, which leads to instability.
> If you wish to use Offset Mode, then bear in mind that the Vcore displayed in the UEFI is simply a snapshot of the offset voltage stack; the firmware interface only places a partial load on the CPU. The full-load voltage in the operating system will be different, so you will need to check the voltage by running a suitable application within the OS. Use Ai Suite to check the full-load voltage. Also, bear in mind that the default voltage receiving the offset changes with the applied CPU ratio.
> *Adaptive Mode:* Adaptive Mode was developed to account for the inadequacies of Offset Mode for overclocking. We use it to specify the voltage used when the CPU is faced with a heavy application load. The voltage we set is the maximum voltage the PCU is allowed to apply, which takes all the load-related guesswork hampering Offset mode out of the equation. The other boon of Adaptive Mode is that it does not alter voltages for non-Turbo CPU ratios, allowing us to enjoy the benefits of power saving without the voltage adjustment range issues presented by the Offset Mode function. We recommend Adaptive Mode for all normal overclocking.
> 
> 
> 
> To use Adaptive Mode, simply enter the full load voltage you wish to use in the Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage box. So, if you wish to set 1.20V for full load, just type 1.20 into the box. The target full-load voltage is shown in the Total Adaptive Mode CPU Core Voltage area.
> Note that the Adaptive voltage target works on the Turbo ratios only. So, if you change the CPU strap and use a non-Turbo CPU ratio, the value in the Adaptive voltage setting box will not be applied. That's why there is the option to apply an offset when in Adaptive mode. The offset value is added or subtracted from the Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage box, and the total is displayed in the Total Adaptive Mode CPU Core Voltage pane. The side effect of applying an offset is that it affects the entire voltage stack - from idle to Turbo ratios, which can limit the usable offset voltage range.


Jeez, alright much thanks +1 on that at least so I should be using adaptive, as you mentioned ai suite mentions the current max voltage correct? Is that how I would go about tweaking voltage Per core? Someone earlier mentioned intel extreme tuning utility by asus for this as well, I'm curious if theres a guide anywhere to follow for this?


----------



## becks

Finally some progress....

Bios 3201
Was charted here on this forum with 16-16-16-28-1t @ 3733 - 1.395v 1.08 IO 1.13 SA (in OP)...

CPU died...Changed CPU updated to latest bios 3504
Was a big No NO....Could boot at pretty much anything once I got the hang of it and what tot turn up and down on diff Q_codes ..51..49...55...but passing memtest was a different story...

Downgraded to Bios 3201 and Voila...

Passed 1600% @3733 17-17-17-40-1t - 1.435v 1.22 IO 1.28 SA....


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








Now I am running more runs so I can tighten it up... with all timing very tight I found no difference in benches between 16-16-16-36-1t & 17-17-17-40-1t...only a bit more latency with the later.

But it PUZZLES me to my bones! why such an increase in V just by changing the CPU!!!
When that happened I remember sending my MB and RAM as well to be checked ....now I'm paranoid ...did they smuggled my parts ? but I have same S/N's on them.....









Anyhow ....once its done...its done.
And lesson learned on my side.... when you get a good part/system just freaking use it and stop pushing to the moon or you might loose everything...


----------



## NeoandGeo

Testing in progress. Hoping I make it to 500%, have been getting a single error in the 100-150% coverage area before doing some more adjusting. Finally seem to have my RTL/IOL training sorted, seems messing with the tRDRD_sg/dg and TWRRD_sg/dg was the key to keep those in check when rebooting.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Jeez, alright much thanks +1 on that at least so I should be using adaptive, as you mentioned ai suite mentions the current max voltage correct? Is that how I would go about tweaking voltage Per core? Someone earlier mentioned intel extreme tuning utility by asus for this as well, I'm curious if theres a guide anywhere to follow for this?


Just wanted you to have the good information. I just sync all cores I have good cooling so no need to OC individual cores. Remember Jpmboy gave you this information.

46bycore_setting.txt 68k .txt file


the adaptive per core settings are based upon the individual core's VID. Remember, adaptive cannot run below the VID for a given core and I was able t get the *cores to 4.6 with only a slight bump in the 4.5VID. Yeah - it's an odd setup, but had to try. Synching all cores is very straight forward. When pushing things a bit more than 24/7 work, I go with manual override running below the VIDs, c-states and the turbo residence settings in that screen pack. RUns fine as a per core.. and free benefit is 2 cores at one notch higher with little more voltage. I wnat to try a per core manual override and drop the vcore for each as far as stability will allow. And.. I do not use p95 on this processor. It's a left over from the Jurassic cpu epoc. x264, x265, HCi memtest, GSAT (which uses AVX). For me, getting really solid ram stability is the most important. I can adjust core voltage on the fly if ever needed. Edit: VCCIN... stay (well) below 2V. I have not needed more than 1.8 for normal use, 1.95 for some benches (like the final two modules in geekbench 3 (x64).


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Jeez, alright much thanks +1 on that at least so I should be using adaptive, as you mentioned ai suite mentions the current max voltage correct? Is that how I would go about tweaking voltage Per core? Someone earlier mentioned intel extreme tuning utility by asus for this as well, I'm curious if theres a guide anywhere to follow for this?


Given that we are all undervolting the 7980 relative to VID I'm not so sure adaptive will be the best option.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Just wanted you to have the good information. I just sync all cores I have good cooling so no need to OC individual cores. Remember Jpmboy gave you this information.
> 
> 46bycore_setting.txt 68k .txt file
> 
> 
> the adaptive per core settings are based upon the individual core's VID. Remember, adaptive cannot run below the VID for a given core and I was able t get the *cores to 4.6 with only a slight bump in the 4.5VID. Yeah - it's an odd setup, but had to try. Synching all cores is very straight forward. When pushing things a bit more than 24/7 work, I go with manual override running below the VIDs, c-states and the turbo residence settings in that screen pack. RUns fine as a per core.. and free benefit is 2 cores at one notch higher with little more voltage. I wnat to try a per core manual override and drop the vcore for each as far as stability will allow. And.. I do not use p95 on this processor. It's a left over from the Jurassic cpu epoc. x264, x265, HCi memtest, GSAT (which uses AVX). For me, getting really solid ram stability is the most important. I can adjust core voltage on the fly if ever needed. Edit: VCCIN... stay (well) below 2V. I have not needed more than 1.8 for normal use, 1.95 for some benches (like the final two modules in geekbench 3 (x64).


Yeah I was asking on some of that but haven't heard anything back from people in either the Sky/kaby thread or here on such things as 240% power (other than cekim which hinted at fire extinguishers), full up time for full phase power etc on Power line in and steady, I have mine set to 800 atm vs the max.... I don't want to break my system, espeiclaly when theres so much new crap in this one to learn and understand lol...


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Yeah I was asking on some of that but haven't heard anything back from people in either the Sky/kaby thread or here on such things as 240% power (other than cekim which hinted at fire extinguishers), full up time for full phase power etc on Power line in and steady, I have mine set to 800 atm vs the max.... I don't want to break my system, espeiclaly when theres so much new crap in this one to learn and understand lol...


I'm running 240% with all CPU current/power/turbo limits effectively disabled (those values maxed out). So, my warning to you was to make sure you understood the risk you were taking by doing the same, but also that by seeking 4.5+ all-core, you must also be willing to take that risk as getting to that level requires that much current/power for benchmarking.

Less so for _most_ actual work, which in my case is showing a typical 330W peak with averages well below that. ... but folding and some specific simulations that I will run may very well end up with a 400W peak and 330-350W average which is asking a lot of the socket, and chip power delivery. I've not yet seen any discoloration of CPU pads, but such symptoms are by no means required to have done damage to the chip.

As per my prior post - given the undervolting going on - adaptive just doesn't work very well here. per-core fixed appears to be the most stable and highest performing solution.

Sorry for the OT in the memory thread....


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> Finally some progress....
> 
> Bios 3201
> Was charted here on this forum with 16-16-16-28-1t @ 3733 - 1.395v 1.08 IO 1.13 SA (in OP)...
> 
> CPU died...Changed CPU updated to latest bios 3504
> Was a big No NO....Could boot at pretty much anything once I got the hang of it and what tot turn up and down on diff Q_codes ..51..49...55...but passing memtest was a different story...
> 
> Downgraded to Bios 3201 and Voila...
> 
> Passed 1600% @3733 17-17-17-40-1t - 1.435v 1.22 IO 1.28 SA....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I am running more runs so I can tighten it up... with all timing very tight I found no difference in benches between 16-16-16-36-1t & 17-17-17-40-1t...only a bit more latency with the later.
> 
> But it PUZZLES me to my bones! why such an increase in V just by changing the CPU!!!
> When that happened I remember sending my MB and RAM as well to be checked ....now I'm paranoid ...did they smuggled my parts ? but I have same S/N's on them.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow ....once its done...its done.
> And lesson learned on my side.... when you get a good part/system just freaking use it and stop pushing to the moon or you might loose everything...


you killed your CPU?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> you killed your CPU?


Not sure if I killed it or it just happened..

The point is I had to replace it







.. It was darn 1000% percent better than the current one


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Yeah I was asking on some of that but haven't heard anything back from people in either the Sky/kaby thread or here on such things as 240% power (other than cekim which hinted at fire extinguishers), full up time for full phase power etc on Power line in and steady, I have mine set to 800 atm vs the max.... I don't want to break my system, espeiclaly when theres so much new crap in this one to learn and understand lol...


I run mine at 200% with the settings I gave you for my bios. I overclock to 50 MHz with no issues. Make sure you have a good PSU.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> I run mine at 200% with the settings I gave you for my bios. I overclock to 50 MHz with no issues. Make sure you have a good PSU.


Dual AX1200i's 1 for the cpu/board/pump/fans the other for the gpu's / periph's

Though unless they auto revert to multi rail from single after being set to single then I'm hoping I should be good..

I've been lowering voltage for the past few hours , just got back from black friday shopping, couldn't decide on a tv for a monitor, so back to fine tuning.

Down to 1.115 on vcore so far


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> I run mine at 200% with the settings I gave you for my bios. I overclock to 50 MHz with no issues. Make sure you have a good PSU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dual AX1200i's 1 for the cpu/board/pump/fans the other for the gpu's / periph's
> 
> Though unless they auto revert to multi rail from single after being set to single then I'm hoping I should be good..
> 
> I've been lowering voltage for the past few hours , just got back from black friday shopping, couldn't decide on a tv for a monitor, so back to fine tuning.
> 
> Down to 1.115 on vcore so far
Click to expand...

I should have kept my AX1200i, have an AX1500i, sold an AX1200i, but when I build a four Volta card benching machine I could have used it.









I'm pretty sure my huge Thermaltake Core X9 supports two PSUs.









Yeah, it does support dual PSUs.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Dual AX1200i's 1 for the cpu/board/pump/fans the other for the gpu's / periph's
> 
> Though unless they auto revert to multi rail from single after being set to single then I'm hoping I should be good..
> 
> I've been lowering voltage for the past few hours , just got back from black friday shopping, couldn't decide on a tv for a monitor, so back to fine tuning.
> 
> Down to 1.115 on vcore so far


I have a AX1500i I turn off all ocp rails run on single rail. Uninstall Corsair link unplug cables and never look back. You have plenty of power with two AX1200i's


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Dual AX1200i's 1 for the cpu/board/pump/fans the other for the gpu's / periph's
> 
> Though unless they auto revert to multi rail from single after being set to single then I'm hoping I should be good..
> 
> I've been lowering voltage for the past few hours , just got back from black friday shopping, couldn't decide on a tv for a monitor, so back to fine tuning.
> 
> Down to 1.115 on vcore so far
> 
> 
> 
> I have a AX1500i I turn off all ocp rails run on single rail. Uninstall Corsair link unplug cables and never look back. You have plenty of power with two AX1200i's
Click to expand...

I heard running a ton of power through a single rail can be trouble.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I heard running a ton of power through a single rail can be trouble.


So can running them on the PSU concurrently in a different manner, due to how much power certain configs pull. Certainly beats having the system trip when in use.


----------



## djgar

Ahh! My lame XFX Radeon R7 250 GPU runs fine on my AX850i









But single rail vs. multi-rail, is it better single rail for OC power, less likely to inadvertently shut down?


----------



## moorhen2

This 3200mhz kit just keeps giving.

moorhen2---7700K @50/42---4133mhz-C16-17-17-38-1T----1.465v---SA 1,35v---IO 1.275v---HCI 850+ %


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I heard running a ton of power through a single rail can be trouble.


No not a problem. You want at least 30A on the non 12v rail for HCC-class cpus. Helps maintain other on-die voltages and alignment with the EPS line. (at least that's what Raja and Jpmboy say). my AX1500i has 30A on the non-12V rail.


----------



## Testier

Whats the detriment of running a mix of 4x16gb and 4x8gb on quad channel setup?

Thanks

@cekim


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Whats the detriment of running a mix of 4x16gb and 4x8gb on quad channel setup?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> @cekim


1. never tried this - don't know
2. If you arrange them with 24G on each channel, then you are mixing kits on a given channel as well as densities - seems like the least likely config to work well if at all. The alternative would be to alternate 2x16 in 2 channels and 2x8 in the other 2. That might work better if the IMC/BIOS adjust sufficiently.

If you are bound and determined to do this, you should try to keep a given channel populated with 2dimms from a matched set, but also try moving things around to see how the IMC/BIOS adjust. You may find it works better to put the higher density dimms on the outer or inner by a wide margin (depends on routing and firmware setup).


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @49/49 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4200MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.225v -- VCCIO 1.2v -- HCI 1300%:*


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Ahh! My lame XFX Radeon R7 250 GPU runs fine on my AX850i
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But single rail vs. multi-rail, is it better single rail for OC power, less likely to inadvertently shut down?


Not necessarily, on a daily system though, with multiple GPU it means you have to be wary of what rails you're running the cards on independently


----------



## becks

*becks -- 7700K @51/46 - 2 AVX-- 2x16Gb G.Skill 3200Mhz CL15 ( F4-3200C15D-32GTZ) @3733MHz CL17 1.445v -- SA 1.2875v -- VCCIO 1.2250v -- HCI 1000%:*


Spoiler: HCI Aida bench



*AIDA*


*HCI*




Anyone else noticed that all new Benches like to keep the CPU at AVX ratio ? HCI 6.x...TimeSpy... RB...Prime....Valey...Superposition...XTU..



Spoiler: Bios settings


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- 5960x @4.7GHZ/4.4Cache - 4x8Gb G.Skill 3200Mhz Ripjaws 5 CL14 @3200MHz 1.45v -- 13-14-13-25 1T-- SA .343v Offset 1.128v -- CPU Input 1.93v -- HCI MemTest 2000%:

My RAM might be stable.











Got to love those X99 Cache And Memory Benches.


----------



## djgar

Well, I just ordered this 3600-16 kit for my Strix, which may be dubious for BW-E but what the heck ... and hopefully will be good for my next CPU/MB upgrade. I'll see if it can match my blasted 3200-14:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232492

Hope I can turn off the lights ...


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> KedarWolf -- 5960x @4.7GHZ/4.4Cache - 4x8Gb G.Skill 3200Mhz Ripjaws 5 CL14 @3200MHz 1.45v -- 13-14-13-25 1T-- SA .343v Offset 1.128v -- CPU Input 1.93v -- HCI MemTest 2000%:
> 
> My RAM might be stable.


wow how did you reach such a read speed? i have 3200 14-14-14-35-1T and i scratch 70000^^ didnt touched the secondary timings


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> *becks -- 7700K @51/46 - 2 AVX-- 2x16Gb G.Skill 3200Mhz CL15 ( F4-3200C15D-32GTZ) @3733MHz CL17 1.445v -- SA 1.2875v -- VCCIO 1.2250v -- HCI 1000%:*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HCI Aida bench
> 
> 
> 
> *AIDA*
> 
> 
> *HCI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else noticed that all new Benches like to keep the CPU at AVX ratio ? HCI 6.x...TimeSpy... RB...Prime....Valey...Superposition...XTU..
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Bios settings


@Jpmboy looking alright to your eagle eye ? anything I missed there tweaking ?

Also with this -2 AVX Ratio I see my CPU at 4.9 more than I like...even in games...normal ? or have I missed anything CPU wise ?


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Well, I just ordered this 3600-16 kit for my Strix, which may be dubious for BW-E but what the heck ... and hopefully will be good for my next CPU/MB upgrade. I'll see if it can match my blasted 3200-14:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232492
> 
> Hope I can turn off the lights ...


If you don't like the RGB lights you can always grab the Trident Z versions instead they're just the Non RGB version is all and usually 5-10% less than the RGB versions.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> wow how did you reach such a read speed? i have 3200 14-14-14-35-1T and i scratch 70000^^ didnt touched the secondary timings


If you look at their mesh ( FSB) its set pretty high ( though I've no clue whats high for x99/BWE) also tRFC/tFAW help increase the read/write/copy ( tRFC mostly) not to mention they're running at 1t vs 2t


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> If you don't like the RGB lights you can always grab the Trident Z versions instead they're just the Non RGB version is all and usually 5-10% less than the RGB versions.
> If you look at their mesh ( FSB) its set pretty high ( though I've no clue whats high for x99/BWE) also tRFC/tFAW help increase the read/write/copy ( tRFC mostly) not to mention they're running at 1t vs 2t


isnt he driving FSB at 100Mhz?


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> isnt he driving FSB at 100Mhz?


North bridge clock = mesh

for example here's mine at 3000, though Kedar's and cekim's are making me wanna dive back into 3200 to see how far I can tweak it since this is a c14 kit to begin w/


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> KedarWolf -- 5960x @4.7GHZ/4.4Cache - 4x8Gb G.Skill 3200Mhz Ripjaws 5 CL14 @3200MHz 1.45v -- 13-14-13-25 1T-- SA .343v Offset 1.128v -- CPU Input 1.93v -- HCI MemTest 2000%:
> 
> My RAM might be stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow how did you reach such a read speed? i have 3200 14-14-14-35-1T and i scratch 70000^^ didnt touched the secondary timings
Click to expand...

If you click on the first picture and open the original you'll see how I manually set every timing.

And do you have X99?

I find my 5960x at 4.7GHZ/4.4 cache with those timings gets those speeds.

My RAM had the world record AIDA64 Memory And Cache Benchmark for a single CPU machine for a water cooled machine some months until X299 came out.

X99 machines get really great read and copy benches.


----------



## Streetdragon

Yep x99 asus rampage extreme 5930k @ 4700/4500.
On the fly i cant change timings with memtweakit. so its bios for me^^

But 80000 should be possible for me as long as i stay under 1,4V. Dont like red numbers in bios


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> If you don't like the RGB lights you can always grab the Trident Z versions instead they're just the Non RGB version is all and usually 5-10% less than the RGB versions.


I was looking for them but couldn't find them at the same speed, so I went with the RGB ones.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> wow how did you reach such a read speed? i have 3200 14-14-14-35-1T and i scratch 70000^^ didnt touched the secondary timings


He has more cores than you. 6 core vs 8 core makes the difference.


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ this
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> wow how did you reach such a read speed? i have 3200 14-14-14-35-1T and i scratch 70000^^ didnt touched the secondary timings


more cores and higher cache. Basically AID64 membench scales with core count and cache frequency. So you really can;t compare between a 5930k and 5960x using that test.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ this
> more cores and higher cache. Basically AID64 membench scales with core count and cache frequency. So you really can;t compare between a 5930k and 5960x using that test.


Another reason why people shouldn't get too hung up on the throughput test.


----------



## KedarWolf

My Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHZ 8x16GB kit (128GB) at 3200MHZ.

Edit: I got it to 700% stable in HCI MemTestPro , before I could screenshot it was messing around in Chrome (not a good idea to multi-task with 64 instances of MemTestPro open at 96% memory and no page file) and immediately got 3 errors on one instance.









You don't want to know how long it took to get a 128GB kit to 700%, I ran it all night while I was sleeping then all day at work.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Yep x99 asus rampage extreme 5930k @ 4700/4500.
> On the fly i cant change timings with memtweakit. so its bios for me^^
> 
> But 80000 should be possible for me as long as i stay under 1,4V. Dont like red numbers in bios


Even with a 5930k if you change the sub timings you should perform much better.

Here's what I use on my 32GB 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 3200 CL14 kit.

Same B-Die as Trident Z just Trident Z are binned higher.

I brb, need to boot into BIOS, forget the name of a setting not shown in the pic.

Okay, DRAM CLK Period is set to 11.

All the RTLs and IOLs are on Auto.


----------



## lilchronic




----------



## JCOC

I'm having hard time finding the right sub timings with my kits. I have 2 Corsair CMU16GX4M2A2666C16R kits. I have been able to push them both in quad channel to 3866MHz @ 16-18-18-35 2T. The primary timings probably aren't going any tighter. So I have been trying to adjust the sub timings (forth timings on the Z270 Supercarrier mobo). Nothing I have tried will even post so tightening the sub timings may not be doable on my board. So I'm just looking for some feed back. Any help will be greatly appreciated!!


----------



## xarot

Hello,

Having some issues again. My CMD64GX4M8B3200C16 kit (8x8 3200 16-18-18-36-2T) is now running at 3600 [email protected] V and tRFC 301.

I ran GSAT for nearly 6 hours overnight without any issues and not a single crash. But, full system shutdown and no POST in the morning... should I try setting some bootup voltages or something? I always seem to run into POST issues every now and then when overclocking the RAM. Any clues?


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*


Try and set DMI eventual v same as RAM v..and RAM boot v 0.05 - 0.10 higher than the other 2.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Having some issues again. My CMD64GX4M8B3200C16 kit (8x8 3200 16-18-18-36-2T) is now running at 3600 [email protected] V and tRFC 301.
> 
> I ran GSAT for nearly 6 hours overnight without any issues and not a single crash. But, full system shutdown and no POST in the morning... should I try setting some bootup voltages or something? I always seem to run into POST issues every now and then when overclocking the RAM. Any clues?


yeah - use 50mV higher dram voltage and set Eventual Dram Voltage to the voltage that GSAT passed with. Sometimes you may need to range VSA (up and down) to get things aligned properly. What post code does it hang at when the boot failed?


----------



## xarot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - use 50mV higher dram voltage and set Eventual Dram Voltage to the voltage that GSAT passed with. Sometimes you may need to range VSA (up and down) to get things aligned properly. What post code does it hang at when the boot failed?


Not easy to see the POST code when it occurs. How does it work - eventual vs actual DRAM voltage on main page in BIOS? I would understand that DRAM voltage is the boot voltage (but it isn't?), eventual is the 24x7 voltage? Confusing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xarot*
> 
> Not easy to see the POST code when it occurs. How does it work - eventual vs actual DRAM voltage on main page in BIOS? I would understand that DRAM voltage is the boot voltage (but it isn't?), eventual is the 24x7 voltage? Confusing.


eventual dram voltage is on the tweaker menu (I think). it's not on the main page. set the main page to boot voltage and it wil ldrop to the value set in the eventual dram voltage fields after completing the POST.


----------



## moorhen2

Update

Scone please add this to the list.

moorhen2---i7 [email protected]/47---4133mhz--C16-17-17-38-1T---1,465v---SA 1.3250v---IO 1.3125v---HCI 1000%


----------



## NeoandGeo

NeoandGeo -- i7 8700k @ 5.3/4.6 -- G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (4x8GB) 3200Mhz C14-14-14-34 @ 4000Mhz C16-18-18-38-2T -- 1.45v -- SA 1.272v / VCCIO 1.232v -- HCI 500%


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> NeoandGeo -- i7 8700k @ 5.3/4.6 -- G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (4x8GB) 3200Mhz C14-14-14-34 @ 4000Mhz C16-18-18-38-2T -- 1.45v -- SA 1.272v / VCCIO 1.232v -- HCI 500%


Nice result! Vcore @ cpu?


----------



## JCOC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCOC*
> 
> I'm having hard time finding the right sub timings with my kits. I have 2 Corsair CMU16GX4M2A2666C16R kits. I have been able to push them both in quad channel to 3866MHz @ 16-18-18-35 2T. The primary timings probably aren't going any tighter. So I have been trying to adjust the sub timings (forth timings on the Z270 Supercarrier mobo). Nothing I have tried will even post so tightening the sub timings may not be doable on my board. So I'm just looking for some feed back. Any help will be greatly appreciated!!


the trcf is 430 and im running at 1.45V on the dram and 0.730V on the VTT. SA and IO are at 1.300V. If it is not possible to tighten the sub timings on these cheap kits, please just let me know. Lol I have been up for hours trying to get them tighter. Lol


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCOC*
> 
> the trcf is 430 and im running at 1.45V on the dram and 0.730V on the VTT. SA and IO are at 1.300V. If it is not possible to tighten the sub timings on these cheap kits, please just let me know. Lol I have been up for hours trying to get them tighter. Lol


Can you post a memtweak it or timing configuration shot so we can see what the current sub timings are?


----------



## NeoandGeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Nice result! Vcore @ cpu?


1.42v in BIOS, showing 1.408v in Windows with LLC 6.

After 3 straight weeks of late nights and early mornings, I think I pretty much have this at its limits. Pretty much any change of values a single tick tighter and I end up with either 1 error around the 200% mark, tWCL-13, or between 5-10 errors by the time I hit 150ish %, tRCD/TRP-17. May try playing with tREFI later on.


----------



## JCOC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Can you post a memtweak it or timing configuration shot so we can see what the current sub timings are?


Yes I'm sorry. I'm all over the place. Will post a screen shot soon.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> NeoandGeo -- i7 8700k @ 5.3/4.6 -- G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (4x8GB) 3200Mhz C14-14-14-34 @ 4000Mhz C16-18-18-38-2T -- 1.45v -- SA 1.272v / VCCIO 1.232v -- HCI 500%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


what MB?


----------



## Koniakki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what MB?


Maximus X Hero if I remember correctly.


----------



## NeoandGeo

Yep, Maximus X Hero WiFi AC version 0802 BIOS.

Also my RTL/IOL issues with not training correctly seem to have cleared up. Now after changing settings there will be one boot at 64/6761/67 14/4/10/4, second boot will be 60/67/61/67 5/4/6/4, then third boot on it settles to 59/67/60/67 5/4/5/4.


----------



## Koniakki

WIP.. Looks ok? Any help to tweak anything I missed or didn't set properly would be great!









1.4-1.425v(havent fully tested both yet), IO 1.216v, SA 1.248v(could lower them probably)


----------



## becks

*becks -- 7700K @51/46 - 2 AVX-- 2x16Gb G.Skill 3200Mhz CL15 ( F4-3200C15D-32GTZ) @3733MHz CL17 1.445v -- SA 1.2875v -- VCCIO 1.2250v -- HCI 1000%:*


Spoiler: HCI Aida bench



*AIDA*


*HCI*




Anyone else noticed that all new Benches like to keep the CPU at AVX ratio ? HCI 6.x...TimeSpy... RB...Prime....Valey...Superposition...XTU..



Spoiler: Bios settings






















Anything I can tighten some more before I have a 2nd try at lowering V ?
All timings look ok ? anything out of wack ?


----------



## tux1989

Is there any chance/option to test cache stability with GSAT ?


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *becks*
> 
> 1000[/IMG]
> 
> Anything I can tighten some more before I have a 2nd try at lowering V ?
> All timings look ok ? anything out of wack ?


Your VCCSA is really high. Looks like it's on Auto? Try at 1.0 to 1.2 max.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tux1989*
> 
> Is there any chance/option to test cache stability with GSAT ?


No, not even remotely. On some platforms it's possible to pass GSAT with very marginal cache stability. You can use AIDA cache test or HCI for this. There are some arguments that can be used in Stress App that put more load on the cache, but it's far from bullet proof.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Your VCCSA is really high. Looks like it's on Auto? Try at 1.0 to 1.2 max.


Look at the BIOS pics...everything is manual.
Any lower and it errors...


----------



## Streetdragon

will lower trfc more tomorrow. Anything else worth to tune?


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf--i7-5960x @4.7 CPU/4.4 cache---3200Mhz-C14-15-14-27-2T----1.40v---SA 1.128v (.343v Offset)---HCI MemTestPro 6.0 1150% ---- Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHZ 8x16GB kit.





BIOS Screenshots.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Streetdragon

Kedarwolf i copied Your settings a bit.

DDR runs with 1.4v. What do you Think?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> Kedarwolf i copied Your settings a bit.
> 
> DDR runs with 1.4v. What do you Think?


What memory kit do you have?


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> What memory kit do you have?


F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR testing the settings Now with 1.385v . 500%hci now

I watches Now and i Bad within 700% One error. Hey Now 1.39v over night


----------



## Worldwin

Has anyone figured out how to do memory overclocking on the z370 gaming 7? Whenever i plug in my timings it either bugs the bios out where it resets or the timings don't actually apply despite it being configured in the bios. For the latter i know this because when i boot into windows, task manager, aida and HWINFO all read *different frequency and timings.*

Eg task manager :3466mhz , aida 1633 16 18 18 40, hwinfo 1533 14 14 14 28

Like ***? This is the F5E bios.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR testing the settings Now with 1.385v . 500%hci now
> 
> I watches Now and i Bad within 700% One error. Hey Now 1.39v over night


I now have the same kit for a week, and love it on my X99 Strix. I'm at 3400 14-14-14-34--1T 1.41vdimm, good for HCI Memtest Deluxe overnight and Aida64 Cache stress for 2 hrs.


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I now have the same kit for a week, and love it on my X99 Strix. I'm at 3400 14-14-14-34--1T 1.41vdimm, good for HCI Memtest Deluxe overnight and Aida64 Cache stress for 2 hrs.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


nice speeds there!



my "final" settings. wish i could break 80000 on read and copy^^ but i dont wanna go over 1,4V/wanna stay under it. ATM in the Bios is 1,39V. Under load it jumps to 1,4V. Maybe i could tRFC a bit lower..... But for now i just wanna game a bit xD


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> nice speeds there!
> 
> 
> 
> my "final" settings. wish i could break 80000 on read and copy^^ but i dont wanna go over 1,4V/wanna stay under it. ATM in the Bios is 1,39V. Under load it jumps to 1,4V. Maybe i could tRFC a bit lower..... But for now i just wanna game a bit xD


Well, I do have the benefit of 2 more cores








Hey, what works for you is always the best answer


----------



## cekim

[email protected]/3.0---3200MHz-C14-14-14-28-1T---1.37v---SA 0.92v---Stressapptest---1 Hour

TridentZ-3200C14 8x16G (128G) kit (BWE/x99 kit)
ddr tuning primarily:
CR: 1T
tRAS: 28
tRFC: 252
tFAW: 20
tREFI: 32767
voltage: 1.37
Auto elsewhere...

~14.5% large memory/parallel application improvement over stock 3200C14 timings all else being equal
53.6nS latency

7980xe:
Asus Rampage VI Extreme (R6E)
CORE: 1.175v
MESH: 1.05v
VCCIO: 1.05v
SA: 0.92v
VDIMM:1.37 (initial and eventual)


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> [email protected]/3.0---3200MHz-C14-14-14-28-1T---1.37v---SA 0.92v---Stressapptest---1 Hour
> 
> TridentZ-3200C14 8x16G kit (BWE/x99 kit)
> ddr tuning primarily:
> CR: 1T
> tRAS: 28
> tRFC: 252
> tFAW: 20
> tREFI: 32767
> voltage: 1.37
> Auto elsewhere...
> 
> ~14.5% large memory/parallel application improvement over stock 3200C14 timings all else being equal
> 53.6nS latency
> 
> 7980xe:
> Asus Rampage VI Extreme (R6E)
> CORE: 1.175v
> MESH: 1.05v
> VCCIN: 1.05v
> SA: 0.92v
> VDIMM:1.37 (initial and eventual)


You can probably go a lot higher than 3200MHZ on the kit. B-Die I think, even with 8x16GB, they scale well with a 7980xe.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You can probably go a lot higher than 3200MHZ on the kit. B-Die I think, even with 8x16GB, they scale well with a 7980xe.


I've run as high as 3600/16 so far... It will definitely do it. The problem(s) is/are:
1. higher voltage required
2. less stable so far
3. 0, zip, zilch, nada, goose-egg actual application level performance gain for my trouble
4. more heat.

So, I'll play with it more, but other than a higher number in Aida64 and no where else, its been a second priority. (102GB/s is easily achievable with even 3400/14, but see above).


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I've run as high as 3600/16 so far... It will definitely do it. The problem(s) is/are:
> 1. higher voltage required
> 2. less stable so far
> 3. 0, zip, zilch, nada, goose-egg actual application level performance gain for my trouble
> 4. more heat.
> 
> So, I'll play with it more, but other than a higher number in Aida64 and no where else, its been a second priority. (102GB/s is easily achievable with even 3400/14, but see above).


Ditto, 0 point in higher clock speeds ( other than for records/other ) *for me* over performance gains from better pushed sets. I might try 3400 and see if I can get 1t going on there, I nearly have 1t working perfectly @ 3600 15-15-15-35 just trying to figure out what needs to be tweaked as far as voltage goes for it to stick, VCCIN at 1.9-1.95 and mesh at 28, might step back a bit. Ram voltage at 1.39
Went from Kernel trap errors ( after backing off on trFC to memory management errors at 600+ trfc ) to just errors in HCI.

Oddly I found 3800-4000 at stable settings seem to lower benchmark scores since timings are higher, though could be due to other things as well, still learning.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> [email protected]/3.0---3200MHz-C14-14-14-28-1T---1.37v---SA 0.92v---Stressapptest---1 Hour
> 
> TridentZ-3200C14 8x16G (128G) kit (BWE/x99 kit)
> ddr tuning primarily:
> CR: 1T
> tRAS: 28
> tRFC: 252
> tFAW: 20
> tREFI: 32767
> voltage: 1.37
> Auto elsewhere...
> 
> ~14.5% large memory/parallel application improvement over stock 3200C14 timings all else being equal
> 53.6nS latency
> 
> 7980xe:
> Asus Rampage VI Extreme (R6E)
> CORE: 1.175v
> MESH: 1.05v
> VCCIO: 1.05v
> SA: 0.92v
> VDIMM:1.37 (initial and eventual)


well done bud. And to the point... aid64 MT is helpful but not the "tell-all".


----------



## thebski

I'll throw an 8600K in the mix.

*thebski -- 8600K @51/48 1.35 vcore -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4133 MHz C17 1.4v -- SA 1.2v -- VCCIO 1.175v -- HCI 400%:*



It'll work for now. I still have some tweaking to do. It is a 5.2 chip from Silicon Lottery, so I know 5.2 is attainable on the core. I also think I can get to C16 with around 1.45 vdimm. I tried at 1.435 and got about 11 min into HCI before errors while 1.425 would not boot into Windows. I'm looking for 24/7 settings though, and I'm not sure if I want to go to 1.45 on the vdimm for every day use or not.

Fun platform to play around with, for sure. The Apex is a very impressive performer. My 8600K doesn't like 4266. I couldn't even get it to post at C18 2T. I plan to get an 8700K once availability is a little stronger and prices more stable, so maybe it will have a little stronger IMC.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> well done bud. And to the point... aid64 MT is helpful but not the "tell-all".


Thanks. Still playing around with tighter and faster. 8xDS is just not very forgiving. Everything I've tried pretty much boils down to the same math of this setup so no gain outside Aida. Going to try some 1.4v+ tuning that I won't likely use for 24/7 now that I have this setup working.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> well done bud. And to the point... aid64 MT is helpful but not the "tell-all".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Still playing around with tighter and faster. 8xDS is just not very forgiving. Everything I've tried pretty much boils down to the same math of this setup so no gain outside Aida. Going to try some 1.4v+ tuning that I won't likely use for 24/7 now that I have this setup working.
Click to expand...

Try running it 2T.

My double sided Corsair LPX 3000 8x16GB, does 14-15-14-27 2T at 3200MHZ on my 5960x and is only a tad slower than my 4x8GB G.SKILL CL14 3200 at 13-14-13-25 1T.

I got my Corsair over 1000% HCI stable.









You don't want to know how long that took to get it to 1000%.


----------



## djgar

How long does it take to get to 1000% HCI Pro for 32GB? It takes my HCI Deluxe (booting from CD, no Windows) 3.5 hrs to do 100%, overnight I get 250%. Are the Pro and Deluxe equivalent this way? Deluxe says 100% is good but better if left overnight.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> How long does it take to get to 1000% HCI Pro for 32GB? It takes my HCI Deluxe (booting from CD, no Windows) 3.5 hrs to do 100%, overnight I get 250%. Are the Pro and Deluxe equivalent this way? Deluxe says 100% is good but better if left overnight.


I've always RUN HCI in Windows.

If you have the 6.0 version I can make you a script that'll open enough instances with memory already set for your CPU.

Just need to tell me your CPU, I know how much memory you're testing.









If you don't have 6.0, contact HCI, they'll give you a free upgrade. I replied to the email I got when I bought it 4.0.

Should take a few hours to get to 400% in Windows.


----------



## djgar

Thanks KW, I do have 6.0 but the Deluxe version which I prefer because it doesn't use Windows, it quickly boots off a CD with no hampering OS. There are no windows, just text, with a progress line after it does the initial system analysis. How long does 100% take for the Pro version?


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic - 8700k @ 5.2Ghz - Vcore 1.325v - VCCIO 1.075v - VCCSA 1.125v - DRAM 1.45v - 2x8GB 4133Mhz CL17 - 1000% HCI


..... Not sure whats up with my aida write and copy numbers?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic - 8700k @ 5.2Ghz - Vcore 1.325v - VCCIO 1.075v - VCCSA 1.125v - DRAM 1.45v - 2x8GB 4133Mhz CL17 - 1000% HCI
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..... Not sure whats up with my aida write and copy numbers?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Wow. Nice CPU you have there.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Wow. Nice CPU you have there.


Thanks man. I still need to delid this puppy and see if i can get a couple hundred more Mhz.

....Was wondering if anyone is using a ek supremacy evo and still has the 2011 insert installed ? I got lazy and didn't feel like switching it back to the 1151 insert.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> lilchronic - 8700k @ 5.2Ghz - Vcore 1.325v - VCCIO 1.075v - VCCSA 1.125v - DRAM 1.45v - 2x8GB 4133Mhz CL17 - 1000% HCI
> 
> 
> ..... Not sure whats up with my aida write and copy numbers?


version? I'm using v5.95.4500 and the W/C speeds are not off kilter even if I bork the timing. Nice cpu! Is that x264 or RB stable at that voltage?
Also - have you seen a batch number list for the 8700K?

Try these timings on that kit. i had a 3600c15 kit work with these, but switched to a 4400c19 kit and moved 3600c15 to x299 (when I could use all 4 dimm slots







)

even with this 4400c19 kit 4266 neds close to 1.3V Vsa... risky for sure.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Try running it 2T.
> 
> My double sided Corsair LPX 3000 8x16GB, does 14-15-14-27 2T at 3200MHZ on my 5960x and is only a tad slower than my 4x8GB G.SKILL CL14 3200 at 13-14-13-25 1T.
> 
> I got my Corsair over 1000% HCI stable.


Need to run this longer before I post it up for the spreadsheet, but to give you an idea of the observed futility of 3400/3600 on my system....

1. Note the CBR15 score is identical to the digit to the 3200 setup posted previously
2. I gain, at most, 1-2% performance in a few cases in real applications.
3. 1.4v VDIMM required for this


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Try running it 2T.
> 
> My double sided Corsair LPX 3000 8x16GB, does 14-15-14-27 2T at 3200MHZ on my 5960x and is only a tad slower than my 4x8GB G.SKILL CL14 3200 at 13-14-13-25 1T.
> 
> I got my Corsair over 1000% HCI stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't want to know how long that took to get it to 1000%.


He already posted that 2t worked earlier.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> version? I'm using v5.95.4500 and the W/C speeds are not off kilter even if I bork the timing. Nice cpu! Is that x264 or RB stable at that voltage?
> Also - have you seen a batch number list for the 8700K?
> 
> Try these timings on that kit. i had a 3600c15 kit work with these, but switched to a 4400c19 kit and moved 3600c15 to x299 (when I could use all 4 dimm slots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> even with this 4400c19 kit 4266 neds close to 1.3V Vsa... risky for sure.


Latest version of aida64. If i run raja's profile it's fine. Once i set it up manually and just add the primary's to 17-17-17-37-1N for 4133Mhz i get poor w/c performance. kinda strange.

lolz not even sure what my batch # is.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Latest version of aida64. If i run raja's profile it's fine. Once i set it up manually and just add the primary's to 17-17-17-37-1N for 4133Mhz i get poor w/c performance. kinda strange.
> 
> lolz not even sure what my batch # is.


yeah - double check the version number vs the screenshot i just posted. It's not the same as in your screenshot.


not that I'm sure the version matters, but is is one thing different. also - dram clock period. tried both the preset and Auto? The R/W/C speeds should not be that different.


----------



## lilchronic

Yeah that was a previous version I was using but same thing with 5.95 was happening. I'll have play around a bit more, Asus has so many options it's crazy. Still trying to learn it all.

... Dram clk period Auto or 1-95 are the options I get, not sure what to set that too


----------



## cekim

[email protected]/3.0---3600MHz-C15-15-15-32-2T---1.40v---SA 0.92v---Stressapptest---1 Hour

KIT (same as prior): TridentZ-3200C14 8x16G (128G) kit (BWE/x99 kit)

~16.5% large memory/parallel application improvement over stock 3200C14 timings all else being equal
52.0nS latency

7980xe:
Asus Rampage VI Extreme (R6E)
CORE: 1.175v
MESH: 1.05v
VCCIO: 1.05v
SA: 0.92v
VDIMM:1.40 (initial and eventual)


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> [email protected]/3.0---3600MHz-C15-15-15-32-2T---1.40v---SA 0.92v---Stressapptest---1 Hour
> 
> KIT (same as prior): TridentZ-3200C14 8x16G (128G) kit (BWE/x99 kit)
> 
> ~16.5% large memory/parallel application improvement over stock 3200C14 timings all else being equal
> 52.0nS latency
> 
> 7980xe:
> Asus Rampage VI Extreme (R6E)
> CORE: 1.175v
> MESH: 1.05v
> VCCIO: 1.05v
> SA: 0.92v
> VDIMM:1.40 (initial and eventual)


Hows the comparison over ur 3200 @ 1t + tightened timings?


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Hows the comparison over ur 3200 @ 1t + tightened timings?


CBR15 score for the 3200 setup is right below the 3600 - almost the same (4459 vs 4452). Surprisingly, a more noticeable 1.5-2% bump in some real-multi-thread apps.

It's very, very close though - frankly, debatably worth the 1.4v VDIMM required and corresponding heat.


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> CBR15 score for the 3200 setup is right below the 3600 - almost the same (4459 vs 4452). Surprisingly, a more noticeable 1.5-2% bump in some real-multi-thread apps.
> 
> It's very, very close though - frankly, debatably worth the 1.4v VDIMM required and corresponding heat.


You tried 1.38v? ( for the 3600 )


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> You tried 1.38v? ( for the 3600 )


Yes and 1.39.

1.38 leads to hard freezes during GSAT. 1.39 produces read/write errors and MCEs.


----------



## Carillo

Hello guys.

Did a little memory performance test in Farcry Primal benchmark if anybody is interested.
All memory speeds was done with the same secondary and third timings, except auto and XMP


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Yeah that was a previous version I was using but same thing with 5.95 was happening. I'll have play around a bit more, Asus has so many options it's crazy. Still trying to learn it all.
> 
> ... Dram clk period Auto or 1-95 are the options I get, not sure what to set that too


Auto is good... was just wondering if manually setting this was causing the behavior.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> Hows the comparison over ur 3200 @ 1t + tightened timings?


over in AMD thread, "the stilt" mentioned then showed that the Combined module in SkyDiver was pretty responsive to memory timings and frequencies... just a suggestion.


----------



## Koniakki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> .......
> Also - have you seen a batch number list for the 8700K?
> 
> ........


There's quite a nice list of batches tested over Hardwareluxx. Thread's front page here.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koniakki*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> .......
> Also - have you seen a batch number list for the 8700K?
> 
> ........
> 
> 
> 
> There's quite a nice list of batches tested over Hardwareluxx. Thread's front page here.
Click to expand...

is there a batch test list for 7980XE's?

I checked that thread but not sure.


----------



## Koniakki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> is there a batch test list for 7980XE's?
> 
> I checked that thread but not sure.


Yes, but not much about it in the front page(1 submision).

But probably a lot more info on the 7980XE batches will surely be posted in the thread instead of Prime submission needed for the front page qualification.

Here's the thread:
Welcome to the Intel Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X (Socket 2066) OC result thread


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koniakki*
> 
> There's quite a nice list of batches tested over Hardwareluxx. Thread's front page here.


thanks - plz post aerotrack's thread here


----------



## arrow0309

Hi guys
Stable at 4000 with 17-18-17 (which are performance wise in aida cachemem better than 16-18-18):



I was previously having errors at 16-18-16.
Ram at 1.40v, vccio and sa at the same low voltages as for the 3200 (0.925v and 0.850v).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Hi guys
> Stable at 4000 with 17-18-17 (which are performance wise in aida cachemem better than 16-18-18):
> 
> 
> 
> I was previously having errors at 16-18-16.
> Ram at 1.40v, vccio and sa at the same low voltages as for the 3200 (0.925v and 0.850v).


Nice work, you should see how far you can push some of the secondary timings, as the board is being fairly liberal.


----------



## arrow0309

Yes sir, that should be my next target already
Anyway thanks for the advice









Btw:
Any tRfc and tREFI (or other timings) I should start with?


----------



## arrow0309

Guys, I've just bought the Pro version of Hci.
How do I create a batch with multiple runs (20) of let's say 1475mb each?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Guys, I've just bought the Pro version of Hci.
> How do I create a batch with multiple runs (20) of let's say 1475mb each?


Download this program install it.

https://autohotkey.com/

Unzip attached zip file, have MemTestPro 6.0 in same folder, right click, 'Run This Autohotkey Script' .

If you need to change the memory size right click script and Edit This Autohotkey Script.

6850x.zip 0k .zip file


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Download this program install it.
> 
> https://autohotkey.com/
> 
> Unzip attached zip file, have MemTestPro 6.0 in same folder, right click, 'Run This Autohotkey Script' .
> 
> If you need to change the memory size right click script and Edit This Autohotkey Script.
> 
> 6850x.zip 0k .zip file


Edit:
Never mind, done it!








Thank you very much mate

+Rep


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Download this program install it.
> 
> https://autohotkey.com/
> 
> Unzip attached zip file, have MemTestPro 6.0 in same folder, right click, 'Run This Autohotkey Script' .
> 
> If you need to change the memory size right click script and Edit This Autohotkey Script.
> 
> 6850x.zip 0k .zip file
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> Never mind, done it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much mate
> 
> +Rep
Click to expand...

Yeah, installing the program just adds the Autohotkey right click options.


----------



## Jpmboy

there's also a simple direct way IF you have the Pro version. No script necessary.

MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


----------



## JMTH

Anyone ever have issues with XTU benchmarking just plane not working. Like I hit the button and the little circle arrows start spinning, but the cpu load is like 0 to 2% and the progress bar doesn't move.
I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling and nothing seems to work. I have not added anything since I used it a few days ago, except reinstalling the video drivers and thunderbolt3 card. But I have run XTU with both of those before no problem.

Edit: oops wrong thread, but if you know pleas let me know what the fix is lol


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMTH*
> 
> Anyone ever have issues with XTU benchmarking just plane not working. Like I hit the button and the little circle arrows start spinning, but the cpu load is like 0 to 2% and the progress bar doesn't move.
> I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling and nothing seems to work. I have not added anything since I used it a few days ago, except reinstalling the video drivers and thunderbolt3 card. But I have run XTU with both of those before no problem.
> 
> Edit: oops wrong thread, but if you know pleas let me know what the fix is lol


I've not had this problem and have used XTU a fair bit on this platform, so not sure where your problem is. First suggestion would be closing anything that might be running in the background that's not needed.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> there's also a simple direct way IF you have the Pro version. No script necessary.
> 
> MemTestProLauncher.zip 20k .zip file


That's a different and fancy way, I'll jeep them both








The autohotkey is nice for creating already the tiles grid, the Pro Launcher has it's own interface and some good extras.

However I'm dealing with another issue now, basically happening from the time I've set my ram to 4000 (with the above 1500% stable settings).
Every time I shut the pc down it won't start anymore, no video signal and power off button and I can only shut it down manually by long pressing the pwr switch.
After that my Apex enters the Safe Boot mode and I have to save the current (OC) bios settings once again and than it starts normally.
Did 4 - 5 times already so I disabled the Windows Fast Boot and Hibernation and nothing, the issue is still present.
What could it be?
Or else to be done?


----------



## Jpmboy

and it only does this with the ram at 4000? NOt with everything at Defaults?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> and it only does this with the ram at 4000? NOt with everything at Defaults?


Yeah, only since I've start with 4000 ram, freezing at boot with code 00.
They told me to increase dram training voltage but I just can't find this setting inside the bios


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Yeah, only since I've start with 4000 ram, freezing at boot with code 00.
> They told me to increase dram training voltage but I just can't find this setting inside the bios


dram training V is what you see on the main voltage page in bios (Dram Voltage). Eventual Cram voltage is what the system will supply once it passes the POST training routine. So main dram V = training. Eventual = runtime dram V.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> dram training V is what you see on the main voltage page in bios (Dram Voltage). Eventual Cram voltage is what the system will supply once it passes the POST training routine. So main dram V = training. Eventual = runtime dram V.


Thanks mate, I was indeed suspecting this but I just wanted a confirmation.
Will apply right away 1.44-1.45v for the main voltage and 1.40v for the eventual vdram


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.2 --- 16Gb 4266C19 @ 4000Mhz -C17-17-17 38- 1T --- 1.42v --- SA 1.15v ---- VCCIO -- 1.1v --- hci memtest 600%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

New cpu....

*MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @51/50 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4200MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.175v -- VCCIO 1.15v -- HCI 500%:*


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> dram training V is what you see on the main voltage page in bios (Dram Voltage). Eventual Cram voltage is what the system will supply once it passes the POST training routine. So main dram V = training. Eventual = runtime dram V.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks mate, I was indeed suspecting this but I just wanted a confirmation.
> Will apply right away 1.44-1.45v for the main voltage and 1.40v for the eventual vdram
Click to expand...

It worked this way (apparently) booting well for 4 - 5 times.
Now this morning the 00 code freeze came back again.








Looking at my default (safe mode) voltages I'm noticing a vccio little higher than mine in oc:



I've just set it at 1.00v, will try and see if I can get rid of the boot error.


----------



## arrow0309

While long term testing how to get rid of the cold boot bug I've set the tRfc also from its Auto (701) to 320 (321):



Nice increment in copy and latency (before & now):


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> New cpu....
> 
> *MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @51/50 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4200MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.175v -- VCCIO 1.15v -- HCI 500%:*


very nice CPU !!!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> It worked this way (apparently) booting well for 4 - 5 times.
> Now this morning the 00 code freeze came back again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at my default (safe mode) voltages I'm noticing a vccio little higher than mine in oc:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've just set it at 1.00v, will try and see if I can get rid of the boot error.


1.00 to 1.05 is fine for VCCIO. Good to see you sorted it out.


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Jpmboy, do you think 1.392V is fine for 24/7? Seems like 5.3 ghz is doable at that voltage. Been gaming several hours of PUBG. Max temp was 57'C on the hottest core. The 8700K is so. power efficent and cool compared to X299/7800X/7820X.

Just need to do some memory OCing. Got 2x8GB G.skill 4266 Cl19.

Doing 4000 at 17-18-18-36-1t-400-1.45V but I'm far from happy with it.

Thinking about switching this HERO X for a Taichi instead.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> Jpmboy, do you think 1.392V is fine for 24/7? Seems like 5.3 ghz is doable at that voltage. Been gaming several hours of PUBG. Max temp was 57'C on the hottest core. The 8700K is so. power efficent and cool compared to X299/7800X/7820X.
> 
> Just need to do some memory OCing. Got 2x8GB G.skill 4266 Cl19.
> 
> Doing 4000 at 17-18-18-36-1t-400-1.45V but I'm far from happy with it.
> 
> Thinking about switching this HERO X for a Taichi instead.


depends on the vdroop imo. If it's running 1.392v under load, and the resting voltage is 25+mV higher, then it up there but probably ok (I have mine at 1.36V and higher). See, if there is no droop, the vcore will swing (load change-induced transient voltage spike/swing) quite a bit when load changes (on and off). Best to allow for a healthy amount of droop for your 24/7 settings. I try to keep 25-50mV droop for day-driver clocks (which is 5.2 on this 8700K).
... and why would you think the taichi would be better than the Hero?


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> depends on the vdroop imo. If it's running 1.392v under load, and the resting voltage is 25+mV higher, then it up there but probably ok (I have mine at 1.36V and higher). See, if there is no droop, the vcore will swing (load change-induced transient voltage spike/swing) quite a bit when load changes (on and off). Best to allow for a healthy amount of droop for your 24/7 settings. I try to keep 25-50mV droop for day-driver clocks (which is 5.2 on this 8700K).
> ... and why would you think the taichi would be better than the Hero?


I get code 55 on this motherboard, kinda hoped that the Taichi would be better in terms of memory overclocking.

The memory OC is just tried was unstable, so...









Yeah. I might just back it down to 5.1 at 1.265V-ish or 5.2 at 1.328V-ish. Not worth pushing the CPU and potensially degrading it.

I would end up with a lower overclock if that ever happens anyways.







So best not to risk it.

5.1 or 5.2 ghz at sub 1.3 and 1.35V is still super quick, and good!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> I get code 55 on this motherboard, kinda hoped that the Taichi would be better in terms of memory overclocking.
> 
> The memory OC is just tried was unstable, so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. I might just back it down to 5.1 at 1.265V-ish or 5.2 at 1.328V-ish. Not worth pushing the CPU and potensially degrading it.
> 
> I would end up with a lower overclock if that ever happens anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So best not to risk it.
> 
> 5.1 or 5.2 ghz at sub 1.3 and 1.35V is still super quick, and good!


what VSA (when you are getting 55)?


----------



## GreedyMuffin

1.15V in bios (Aida reads 1.175V).


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> 1.15V in bios (Aida reads 1.175V).


yeah - that's up there for x299.. update your sig.









For z370, 4000 on the ram is gonna require 1.2+ volts VSa and only somewhat lower VCCIO. So for 4266 I have mine at 1.275 in bios (vccio at 1.25) otherwise its a 55. for 3866c16 these can come down to below 1.2.
I find 4266 and 3866 to be pretty strong memory ratios on z370.


----------



## pion

I just put in a 2nd 8700k in my Gigabyte z370 Gaming 7 and it will not boot with more than one DIMM.
I keep getting a bunch of error messages and it ends with C1 and beeps.
Then it reboots and does it all over again. RAM is on the QVL (F4-3200C14-8GVK)
Tried to clear CMOS and install BIOS again but nothing seems to work.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> I just put in a 2nd 8700k in my Gigabyte z370 Gaming 7 and it will not boot with more than one DIMM.
> I keep getting a bunch of error messages and it ends with C1 and beeps.
> Then it reboots and does it all over again. RAM is on the QVL (F4-3200C14-8GVK)
> Tried to clear CMOS and install BIOS again but nothing seems to work.


reseat the cpu and ram sticks.


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> reseat the cpu and ram sticks.


Reseated the CPU and everything works fine again. Thank you


----------



## pion

Now it keeps happening again. On two different new CPU's.
No matter how I try and reseat the RAM and CPU.








Single channel is the only thing that boots.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Now it keeps happening again. On two different new CPU's.
> No matter how I try and reseat the RAM and CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Single channel is the only thing that boots.


check the CPU socket for bent pins...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Reseated the CPU and everything works fine again. Thank you


so.. what was done in bios between "every thing works fine again" and "it keeps happening again" ??


----------



## pion

Tried a different MOBO same C1 boot loop :-/
So a bunch of 8700k's or my 4x8 RAM? Doubt it.
Must be the Gaming 7 right?


----------



## pion

Now it suddenly boots with 2 sticks in dual channel.
I don't know what is going on


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Reseated the CPU and everything works fine again. Thank you


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Now it keeps happening again. On two different new CPU's.
> No matter how I try and reseat the RAM and CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Single channel is the only thing that boots.


what exactly was done between these two posts?


----------



## pion

Put on XMP.
OC'd to 49x and
swapped the CPU.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Put on XMP.
> OC'd to 49x and
> swapped the CPU.


don;t use XMP. CLRCMOS and enter the ram frequency, timings and dram voltage manually.


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> don;t use XMP. CLRCMOS and enter the ram frequency, timings and dram voltage manually.


OK. I try not using XMP.
But it failed at 2133 after a CMOS clear and a BIOS reinstall.


----------



## Jpmboy

fill out rig builder and add your rig to your sig so we know what gear you are working with...


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> don;t use XMP....


Did not enable XMP on my last CPU swap.
Booted without problems. Thanks again


----------



## frgntz

Hi,

I am running MXH + 8700K 5,[email protected],248V AVX + F4-3600C16D-16GTZR and been trying to get some results with 4000 or 4133.

Manual RAM setting leads me to yellow LED (indication for RAM failure on MXH) and no booting, setting up XMP and then changing timings/clock/voltage manually works fine for 4133 17-18-18-36, which is kinda funny, cause every one tells to disable XMP and set everything manually.

So I managed to get 4133 17-18-18-36 somewhat stable with whooping *1,472V Vdimm - 1,312V IO/SA* which is insane compared to some results here and people even pushing 3200 to 4133.

BUT I still see struggles with booting: very long times to POST or not even booting even with these values for Vdimm/IO/SA. What might help?

I am really frustrated to see why my kit has such trouble with OC, since these are b-dies and moderate base XMP clock.


----------



## Lefty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> For z370, 4000 on the ram is gonna require 1.2+ volts VSa and only somewhat lower VCCIO.


I'm new to memory OC (the idea is with this platform upgrade I'll learn how to) so, if this is common knowledge let me know and I will edit/delete this post.
I'm using X Apex (bios-0802) and this memory kit: G.Skill TridentZ (F4-4000C18D-16GTZR -- 18-19-19-39-2 @ 1.35v)

I was getting a lot of code 55 (85%) or 49 (15%) when trying to run tighter timings / higher memory clocks (XMP with lower VCC SA/IO ~1.13v set in bios work fine). Following the advice I found in this forum I begun increasing one bin at a time the SA & IO voltages until I eventually booted in to windows.

I will use as an example my attempt to run stable [email protected]
In order to do so I had to increase voltages until I was using the following:
In bios DRAM-1.4250v -- eventual DRAM-1.4v -- VCCSA-1.26250v and VCCIO-1.2500v (in windows HWinfo64: DRAM-1.408v VCCSA-1.296v and VCCIO-1.312v)


Spoiler: HWiNFO / MemTest 500% screenshot







Then yesterday as I was browsing through the bios I saw these two entries under "External Digi+ Power Control" section:
"CPU System Agent Boot Voltage" & "CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage"
Using these two entries for my previous SA/IO voltages I was able to reduce the actual values as follows:
In bios DRAM-1.4250v -- eventual DRAM-1.375v -- VCCSA-1.13750v and VCCIO-1.12500v -- Boot VCCSA-1.26250v and Boot VCCIO-1.2500v (in windows HWinfo64: DRAM-1.376v VCCSA-1.168v and VCCIO-1.184v)


Spoiler: HWiNFO / MemTest 500% screenshot






This is all I had time for yesterday but, it already looks better. I will continue reducing voltages & testing until I start getting errors.

Up until yesterday I thought that my CPUs IMC and/or my memory kit needing this high VCC SA/IO voltages was kinda weak . Now I'm a bit confused since "operational" voltages seem a bit better. Is that much higher voltages required for boot normal/expected (for training purposes maybe)?
Or is this still an indication that the IMC and/or memory are weak (any way to know which of the two - I guess not but doesn't hurt to ask)?

Also, is it ok to continue using "CPU System Agent Boot Voltage" & "CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage" or is there some downside in this approach?

Tweak mode 2 is used. The secondaries/tertiaries are mostly ripped off your BIOS screenshots -- thanks man they help so much with copy/write.
I do eventually want to learn/understand how/why you ended up using these (tertiary) values. I have been reading the last month or so and trying to apply the last few days that my system is up and running. It is overwhelming at this point when you think I was an "enable XMP change command rate to 1" and call it a day type of user.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lefty23*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm new to memory OC (the idea is with this platform upgrade I'll learn how to) so, if this is common knowledge let me know and I will edit/delete this post.
> I'm using X Apex (bios-0802) and this memory kit: G.Skill TridentZ (F4-4000C18D-16GTZR -- 18-19-19-39-2 @ 1.35v)
> 
> I was getting a lot of code 55 (85%) or 49 (15%) when trying to run tighter timings / higher memory clocks (XMP with lower VCC SA/IO ~1.13v set in bios work fine). Following the advice I found in this forum I begun increasing one bin at a time the SA & IO voltages until I eventually booted in to windows.
> 
> I will use as an example my attempt to run stable [email protected]
> In order to do so I had to increase voltages until I was using the following:
> In bios DRAM-1.4250v -- eventual DRAM-1.4v -- VCCSA-1.26250v and VCCIO-1.2500v (in windows HWinfo64: DRAM-1.408v VCCSA-1.296v and VCCIO-1.312v)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HWiNFO / MemTest 500% screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then yesterday as I was browsing through the bios I saw these two entries under "External Digi+ Power Control" section:
> "CPU System Agent Boot Voltage" & "CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage"
> Using these two entries for my previous SA/IO voltages I was able to reduce the actual values as follows:
> In bios DRAM-1.4250v -- eventual DRAM-1.375v -- VCCSA-1.13750v and VCCIO-1.12500v -- Boot VCCSA-1.26250v and Boot VCCIO-1.2500v (in windows HWinfo64: DRAM-1.376v VCCSA-1.168v and VCCIO-1.184v)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HWiNFO / MemTest 500% screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is all I had time for yesterday but, it already looks better. I will continue reducing voltages & testing until I start getting errors.
> 
> Up until yesterday I thought that my CPUs IMC and/or my memory kit needing this high VCC SA/IO voltages was kinda weak . Now I'm a bit confused since "operational" voltages seem a bit better. Is that much higher voltages required for boot normal/expected (for training purposes maybe)?
> Or is this still an indication that the IMC and/or memory are weak (any way to know which of the two - I guess not but doesn't hurt to ask)?
> 
> Also, is it ok to continue using "CPU System Agent Boot Voltage" & "CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage" or is there some downside in this approach?
> 
> Tweak mode 2 is used. The secondaries/tertiaries are mostly ripped off your BIOS screenshots -- thanks man they help so much with copy/write.
> I do eventually want to learn/understand how/why you ended up using these (tertiary) values. I have been reading the last month or so and trying to apply the last few days that my system is up and running. It is overwhelming at this point when you think I was an "enable XMP change command rate to 1" and call it a day type of user.


Wow. That voltage drop is impressive. I'm 500% HCI stable at 4133 C17 tight but takes longer than it should to post. I might try playing with those boot voltages to see if I can get a normal post time. Nice 8700K. I'm running 5.2 at same voltages also using the Apex.


----------



## Asus11

so I went back to stock 4.8 core 3200 cl14

I kept getting random hangs when opening tabs in chrome / firefox , has anyone else experienced this?

it would not freeze or anything but just stop and take a while to open the tab every so often? like it was thinking ''what do I need to do'' oh yes of course open a tab.. here you go sir.









I went back to stock to test and see if it still happens but im thinking it could be with memory


----------



## Lefty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Wow. That voltage drop is impressive. I'm 500% HCI stable at 4133 C17 tight but takes longer than it should to post. I might try playing with those boot voltages to see if I can get a normal post time. Nice 8700K. I'm running 5.2 at same voltages also using the Apex.


As I said already I'm really new to this (like 5-6 days in). I would wait until one of the more experienced guys comments on this. I just thought it was interesting and wanted the opinion of more experienced members.
I'm on the phone right now but will check back in ~3 hours.


----------



## djgar

BIOS 1801 gave my X99 Strix a nice stable [email protected] / 3700nb @1.3v / 3438 14-14-13-34-1T @1.43v - 9hrs HCI Memtest Deluxe. Same fairly tight timings I ised at 3400. I always consider OC to be broken and needs fixing


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lefty23*
> 
> I'm new to memory OC (the idea is with this platform upgrade I'll learn how to) so, if this is common knowledge let me know and I will edit/delete this post.
> I'm using X Apex (bios-0802) and this memory kit: G.Skill TridentZ (F4-4000C18D-16GTZR -- 18-19-19-39-2 @ 1.35v)
> 
> I was getting a lot of code 55 (85%) or 49 (15%) when trying to run tighter timings / higher memory clocks (XMP with lower VCC SA/IO ~1.13v set in bios work fine). Following the advice I found in this forum I begun increasing one bin at a time the SA & IO voltages until I eventually booted in to windows.
> 
> I will use as an example my attempt to run stable [email protected]
> In order to do so I had to increase voltages until I was using the following:
> In bios DRAM-1.4250v -- eventual DRAM-1.4v -- VCCSA-1.26250v and VCCIO-1.2500v (in windows HWinfo64: DRAM-1.408v VCCSA-1.296v and VCCIO-1.312v)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HWiNFO / MemTest 500% screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then yesterday as I was browsing through the bios I saw these two entries under "External Digi+ Power Control" section:
> "CPU System Agent Boot Voltage" & "CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage"
> Using these two entries for my previous SA/IO voltages I was able to reduce the actual values as follows:
> In bios DRAM-1.4250v -- eventual DRAM-1.375v -- VCCSA-1.13750v and VCCIO-1.12500v -- Boot VCCSA-1.26250v and Boot VCCIO-1.2500v (in windows HWinfo64: DRAM-1.376v VCCSA-1.168v and VCCIO-1.184v)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HWiNFO / MemTest 500% screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is all I had time for yesterday but, it already looks better. I will continue reducing voltages & testing until I start getting errors.
> 
> Up until yesterday I thought that my CPUs IMC and/or my memory kit needing this high VCC SA/IO voltages was kinda weak . Now I'm a bit confused since "operational" voltages seem a bit better. Is that much higher voltages required for boot normal/expected (for training purposes maybe)?
> Or is this still an indication that the IMC and/or memory are weak (any way to know which of the two - I guess not but doesn't hurt to ask)?
> 
> *Also, is it ok to continue using "CPU System Agent Boot Voltage" & "CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage" or is there some downside in this approach?*
> 
> Tweak mode 2 is used. The secondaries/tertiaries are mostly ripped off your BIOS screenshots -- thanks man they help so much with copy/write.
> I do eventually want to learn/understand how/why you ended up using these (tertiary) values. I have been reading the last month or so and trying to apply the last few days that my system is up and running. It is overwhelming at this point when you think I was an "enable XMP change command rate to 1" and call it a day type of user.


Absolutely fine to use higher training voltages to get past post.. just be sure to thoroughly test the run-time voltage stability. 1000% HCi would be a good target.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> so I went back to stock 4.8 core 3200 cl14
> I kept getting random hangs when opening tabs in chrome / firefox , has anyone else experienced this?
> it would not freeze or anything but just stop and take a while to open the tab every so often? like it was thinking ''what do I need to do'' oh yes of course open a tab.. here you go sir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went back to stock to test and see if it still happens but im thinking it could be with memory


sounds like a cache issue (freeze etc). May need to either lower the cache multiplier or raise vcore (vcache).


----------



## TK421

My i7 7700K cpu pin pads have discolored, should I be worried? The CPU is still working normally which is pretty weird.

https://imgur.com/a/jHdXL


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Either the IMC on this CPU is a dud, MOBO (Z370 HERO X) is a POS or/and the bricks are shiat. (G.Skill Trident Z 4266 CL19)..

I can't even do 3600 at 16-16-36-1T 1.400V... Simply won't boot..





































Trying to boot on the XMP settings is not going to happend. So tempted to throw this out the window.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> Either the IMC on this CPU is a dud, MOBO (Z370 HERO X) is a POS or/and the bricks are shiat. (G.Skill Trident Z 4266 CL19)..
> 
> I can't even do 3600 at 16-16-36-1T 1.400V... Simply won't boot..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to boot on the XMP settings is not going to happend. So tempted to throw this out the window.


3600/16 is "tighter" (faster turnaround) than 4266/19.

So, 1T isn't where I'd start. It is a hazard going with super-high clock rate dimms if they aren't going to provide multiple XMP profiles up and down the board.

Even for 3600, its reasonable to expect you need more VCCIO and SA (particularly since, as above, you are asking the cells to do more than the XMP profile promised - only a little more, but more none-the-less).

Can you boot with something more conservative 3200-15-15-15-35-1T (try 2T first) 1.35v?


----------



## Streetdragon

i just cant stop playing around with my rig.......

5930 4800Core 4500Cache Ram 3200Mhz 13-14-13-22-1T 1,395V in Bios for Ram


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yep 5930k is a good processor








My Corsair H110i GT died last weekend
Trashed it might salvage the rad and about to buy another EK loop kit for it instead of rma'ing the 110
I believe the 5930k was jealous of the loop in my x299


----------



## frgntz

So after I soft tested my 4133 OC to 100% memtest, went well but then I tried to reboot the system and keep getting "b1" postcode, system won'z boot anymore? How can this be, when it went through memtest minutes ago? What can I do?


----------



## chibi

Might need a higher boot voltage for the ram modules. The running (eventual) voltages are good and you now need a bit extra to get consistent training.

EDIT - Actually, scratch that, I now see you're pretty up there with your dram and sa/io voltages







I would back down to a lower strap and test for stability at lower voltages and work your way up again.

My personal limits when overclocking memory over 4000MHz are as follows:

Vram - 1.45v
SA - 1.27v
IO - 1.23v


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> i just cant stop playing around with my rig.......
> 
> 5930 4800Core 4500Cache Ram 3200Mhz 13-14-13-22-1T 1,395V in Bios for Ram


you can go blind from that.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*
> 
> So after I soft tested my 4133 OC to 100% memtest, went well but then I tried to reboot the system and keep getting "b1" postcode, system won'z boot anymore? How can this be, when it went through memtest minutes ago? What can I do?


Raise RAM voltage .02 or .03 above RAM Eventual. Say if you have Eventual a 1.4v put RAM voltage at 1.43V or so.


----------



## lilchronic

checked stop test after 500% and all the instances disappeared.


----------



## Lefty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Absolutely fine to use higher training voltages to get past post..


Thanks for confirming that
Quote:


> just be sure to thoroughly test the run-time voltage stability. 1000% HCi would be a good target.


Got it. I'll go for overnight runs (should get me to 1500++) once I settle on an OC.


----------



## frgntz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Raise RAM voltage .02 or .03 above RAM Eventual. Say if you have Eventual a 1.4v put RAM voltage at 1.43V or so.


After a few reboots I managed to boot and seems to work again (hell knows why), but I set up Eventual Voltage like you said and it helped a lot, I could drop Vdimm/IO/SA to 1.440/ 1.250 /1.280 and still did 100% HCI.

The only problem I have now, I can't boot with tweak mode 2, no matter what I do to Vdimm/IO/SA, mode 1 works fine. Should I try to raise IO/SA boot voltage? I heard a lot of people are struggling with mode 2.


----------



## chibi

New submission









chibi --- i7-8700K @ 4.7/4.4 1.30V --- 4200Mhz-C17-17-17-38-1T --- 1.425V --- VSA 1.225V --- VCCIO 1.200V --- Stressapptest --- 1 Hour

G.SKILL F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK
stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200

Going to pop the lid and overclock the core/cache once Canada Post finally releases my Heatkiller blocks from customs


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> You can send push notifications to your phone using Pushbullet....


Any way to also get this notification on the PC?

(+1 billion rep by the way ;-)


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Did not enable XMP on my last CPU swap.
> Booted without problems. Thanks again


Swapped 2x16 to 4x8 and it happened again. C1 code boot loop.
Did not have XMP enabled.

2x8 works :-/ (before I could only get one DIMM in single channel to boot)

(8700k + Gaming 7)


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you can go blind from that.


All the windows or the hentia on his desktop?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you can go blind from that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the windows or the hentia on his desktop?
Click to expand...

You know what they say, 'Anime in the streets, hentai in the sheets.'


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You know what they say, 'Anime in the streets, hentai in the sheets.'


Dang, I'm going blind - I couldn't see any ...


----------



## pion

Is it possible to have a stick of RAM that just works occasionally?
That's what it feels like :-/


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pion*
> 
> Is it possible to have a stick of RAM that just works occasionally?
> That's what it feels like :-/


Yes till point of failure. I've one or two Hynix modules do this in the past. Not something that'll you come across often by any stretch.


----------



## frgntz

I noticed DRAM current capability is at 100% by default, is it advised to set up 130% when overclocking?

Also some tips how to boot CR1? Nothing seem to help, I am only able to boot with CR2 on my F4-3600C16D-16GTZR on any frequency or Vdimm/IO/SA.


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You know what they say, 'Anime in the streets, hentai in the sheets.'


if you mean bedsheet. yes they have a nice print too^^ and dakimakura.. lots of them... Waifu is Love, Waifu is life. always forget to "hide" the pics







im happy that i hide my windows that switches through my collection









btw testing now 4600Core(1.215) 4200Uncore(1.08) with same ramspeed. im a bit worried now. Dont wanna loose my x99
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*
> 
> I noticed DRAM current capability is at 100% by default, is it advised to set up 130% when overclocking?
> 
> Also some tips how to boot CR1? Nothing seem to help, I am only able to boot with CR2 on my F4-3600C16D-16GTZR on any frequency or Vdimm/IO/SA.


try 3200 with cr1 and go slow up with the speed 1,4V


----------



## Streetdragon

4600Core 4200Uncore
3200 with even tighter timings



Slower cahce is really eating write speed...


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes till point of failure. I've one or two Hynix modules do this in the past. Not something that'll you come across often by any stretch.


Thank you. Was worried I messed up somehow. Returned the sticks to the shop.

Now I'm having problems with a 2x8 kit I purchased as a warehouse deal from amazon. (3/3 of those orders have had problems now :-/
G.Skill F4-3600C16D-16GTZ. It is on the G.Skill QVL for my motherboard (Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7)
I keep getting the error message C1 and a boot loop with both sticks one at a time no matter what slot i put them in.
Had 4 of the 3600C16 sticks working without problems. But they were Ripjaws F4-3600C16D-16GVK

Both sticks faulty or should I blame the Gaming 7?


----------



## GreedyMuffin

I'm tired if the HERO.. returning it fot a Taichi. A better mobo across the board, and 55-60 usd cheaper.


----------



## chibi

New further optimized secondary/third timings submission









chibi --- i7-8700K @ 4.7/4.4 1.30V --- 4200Mhz-C17-17-17-38-1T --- 1.425V --- VSA 1.225V --- VCCIO 1.200V --- Stressapptest --- 1 Hour

G.SKILL F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK
stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200

Next steps are to set my boot io/sa voltages to 1.2/1.225 and start working the eventual voltages down


----------



## frgntz

I tried to go on my 3600 lightly cause I can't get anything stable above 4000, so tried standard timings 16-16-16-36 and only 3866Mhz. I keep getting the same memtest error close to 90% or sometimes after 30%, no matter what voltages I use (difference =80000000).

IO/SA close to 1,2V should be fine for this and I even tried to go up to 1,45Vdimm. I mean it's only 3866 with XMP timings, shouldnt be that hard. Is there any indication on what the same error might mean?


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*
> 
> I tried to go on my 3600 lightly cause I can't get anything stable above 4000, so tried standard timings 16-16-16-36 and only 3866Mhz. I keep getting the same memtest error close to 90% or sometimes after 30%, no matter what voltages I use (difference =80000000).
> 
> IO/SA close to 1,2V should be fine for this and I even tried to go up to 1,45Vdimm. I mean it's only 3866 with XMP timings, shouldnt be that hard. Is there any indication on what the same error might mean?


My previous ram kit was the 3600C16 and it didn't like going over 3866MHz, I was able to max out the timings with the following settings:
3866Mhz-C16-16-16-36-1T --- 1.415V --- VSA 1.21V --- VCCIO 1.1875V

Are you currently OC'd on either CPU Core or Cache? Try again with those at default and see if it helps. HCI Memtest works the cache as well and might be throwing errors with instability. I do recall when I was getting HCI errors due to cache, but that was more in the 200% range instead of early 30/90 %'s.

Anyways, I had to switch out my ram kit to 4400C19 as the 3600C16 I had just didn't clock very high/tight.


----------



## KedarWolf

What do you peeps think I can squeeze out of my CL14 3200 G.Skill b-dies on my new 8700k?

Could I reach 4000 if I'm lucky?

Or will I need to settle for say 3600 or something?


----------



## Silent Scone

Depends on the board, too. I managed CAS16 4000 on mine with good subs.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Depends on the board, too. I managed CAS16 4000 on mine with good subs.


Decent board, Asus ROG Strix Z370-F.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Decent board, Asus ROG Strix Z370-F.


That it is, but it's not 4 DIMM. You'll have to try and see


----------



## pion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> What do you peeps think I can squeeze out of my CL14 3200 G.Skill b-dies on my new 8700k?
> 
> Could I reach 4000 if I'm lucky?...


I got 4000-18-18-18 with my 3200c14 *4x8* kit.
A 3600c16 kit clocked just a little bit better 4000-17-18-18.
4133 also seems to be stable. Not had time to test that much.
(Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7)


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Decent board, Asus ROG Strix Z370-F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That it is, but it's not 4 DIMM. You'll have to try and see
Click to expand...

The Strix is four DIMM.


----------



## l Nuke l

Any difference in running google stress app test in windows bash vs linux. Is it the same as far as determining stability?


----------



## idahosurge

What am I doing wrong? If it matters I purchased the Pro version.

I am trying to run HCI MT. The OP says to run at 90 - 95%.

I have HT off and a 7820X with 32GB of ram. I started 8 instances of HCI MT then entered 3XXX MB's for each instance. A box popped up that said I could only run 2715 MB's so I changed to that and was able to start the test. Problem is Task Manager says I am only using 73% of my memory. Please see the screen shot.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *idahosurge*
> 
> What am I doing wrong? If it matters I purchased the Pro version.
> 
> I am trying to run HCI MT. The OP says to run at 90 - 95%.
> 
> I have HT off and a 7820X with 32GB or ram. I started 8 instances of HCI MT then entered 3XXX MB's for each instance. A box popped up that said I could only run 2715 MB's so I changed to that and was able to start the test. Problem is Task Manager says I am only using 73% of my memory. Please see the screen shot.


What you need to do is run 16 instances, one for each thread, with less memory allocated.









And I have a script you can run that run MemTest Pro 6.0 with they memory already set and evenly spaced 16 instances if you want to use it, let me know.


----------



## idahosurge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> What you need to do is run 16 instances, one for each thread, with less memory allocated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have a script you can run that run MemTest Pro 6.0 with they memory already set and evenly spaced 16 instances if you want to use it, let me know.


I have hyper threading set to off so I am only using 8 cores/threads, that is why I only opened 8 instances instead of 16. The way I read the instructions was to open an instance for each thread.

I would like to use your script, thanks for the offer. I can PM you my email address is it is something that needs to be emailed and not posted in this thread.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *idahosurge*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> What you need to do is run 16 instances, one for each thread, with less memory allocated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have a script you can run that run MemTest Pro 6.0 with they memory already set and evenly spaced 16 instances if you want to use it, let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have hyper threading set to off so I am only using 8 cores/threads, that is why I only opened 8 instances instead of 16. The way I read the instructions was to open an instance for each thread.
> 
> I would like to use your script, thanks for the offer. I can PM you my email address is it is something that needs to be emailed and not posted in this thread.
Click to expand...

You can still use 16 instances, two for each core.

Ffor example when I tested my 8x16GB RAM I opened 64 instances at 1853MB each one on my 8 core, 16 thread 5960x.

As long as it's a multiple of the cores you are fine.

So 2x8 cores, 16 instances works to get it to around 95%.

Download this program install it.

https://autohotkey.com/

Unzip attached zip file, have MemTestPro 6.0 in same folder, right click, 'Run Script', it'll have that option if you installed Autohotkey.

If you need to change the memory size right click script and 'Edit Script'.

7920X.zip 0k .zip file


----------



## idahosurge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You can still use 16 instances, two for each core.
> 
> Ffor example when I tested my 8x16GB RAM I opened 64 instances at 1853MB each one on my 8 core, 16 thread 5960x.
> 
> As long as it's a multiple of the cores you are fine.
> 
> So 2x8 cores, 16 instances works to get it to around 95%.
> 
> Download this program install it.
> 
> https://autohotkey.com/
> 
> Unzip attached zip file, have MemTestPro 6.0 in same folder, right click, 'Run Script', it'll have that option if you installed Autohotkey.
> 
> If you need to change the memory size right click script and 'Edit Script'.
> 
> 7920X.zip 0k .zip file


Thanks KedarWolf?

I will give this a try with 16 threads.


----------



## l Nuke l

Starting to overclock my ram.kit is gskillz trident 3600 cl15 2x8. Manual set timings to 15 15 15 35 1t and speed to 3600.dram voltage @ 1.35 eventual dram voltage 1.32 sa and vccio @ 1.25.I got gsat running right now in windows bash so far everything is good. What should be my next step? Also tfrc is at auto of 535


----------



## Praz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Starting to overclock my ram.kit is gskillz trident 3600 cl15 2x8. Manual set timings to 15 15 15 35 1t and speed to 3600.dram voltage @ 1.35 eventual dram voltage 1.32 sa and vccio @ 1.25.I got gsat running right now in windows bash so far everything is good. What should be my next step? Also tfrc is at auto of 535


Hello

A CPU with a decent IMC will run that configuration with SA and IO set to 1.0V or lower. Also no need to be offsetting boot/eventual memory voltages.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Depends on the board, too. I managed CAS16 4000 on mine with good subs.


Scone, can you post BIOS screenshots with your System Agent, VCCIO, RAM voltages and your timings and sub timings?

I have 4000 17-18-18-38 2T stable at 4000MHZ with everything else on Auto.

Can't get it to boot at 1T on this G-Skills CL14 3200 b-die.


----------



## encrypted11

Clocked my cache conservatively since I'll encode videos a couple of times that'll add abit to the temps.


NEW ENTRY
encrypted11--i78700K VCore---1.36V (BIOS)@5.3/[email protected] (BIOS)---SA 1.15v (BIOS)---IO 1.02V (BIOS)---Stressapptest (Mint 18.1)----5 Hour
Samsung B-die G.SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW
Start


End


----------



## encrypted11

Forth timings are on auto


----------



## l Nuke l

What should my trfc be?
[email protected] 16t 16t 36t 535t(auto)1t
Dram 1.45v, sa 1.25, vccio 1.26


----------



## l Nuke l

New Entry:

l Nuke l --- [email protected]/4.7--asus maximus x apex --- 2x8GB G. Skill 3600c15 kit @ 4200-C16-16-16-36-1T. 1.45V dimm, 1.26V vccio, 1.25V VSA (bios 0802) 1h WGSAT

start- 

end-


----------



## frgntz

I have this weird problems again after changing few things, running 4133Mhz with these values (in OS):

Vdimm 1.456
IO 1.256
SA 1.264

150% HCI passed for a fast test, but there is something wrong on boot training, I have like 30-60s until POST. Already tried to set higher Boot IO/SA, same result. Any idea what could help?


----------



## frgntz

After trying out every voltage I remembered someone said about USB slowing down POST times. My mouse is connected to front USB, after unplugging it, POST time is about 3 seconds. Why the heck does it slowing POST time?


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*
> 
> After trying out every voltage I remembered someone said about USB slowing down POST times. My mouse is connected to front USB, after unplugging it, POST time is about 3 seconds. Why the heck does it slowing POST time?


Since USB mouse/keyboard are now standard (in place of PS/2), they enumerate USB devices to make them available to the "console" provided by the BIOS (so you can hit F2/DEL 50 times and hope you get into the bios







).

If the firmware or hardware involved is broken or has a large timeout or unexpected response to inquiries from the BIOS during discovery, then... it takes a while.

x299 Asus boards seem better than x99, but they've been very picky about hardware for a while. I've just become accustomed to adding new USB devices one-by-one to a new system make sure none of them cause fatal problems.


----------



## lilchronic

lilchronic - 8700K @ 5.2Ghz / 4.9Ghz cache @ 1.375v LLC 5 - 2x8GB @ 4200Mhz CL17 @ 1.425V DRAM - VCCIO 1.15v - VCCSA 1.2v - 640% HCI


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @50/50 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4200MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.15v -- VCCIO 1.125v -- HCI 2000%:*


----------



## l Nuke l

whats better
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> *MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @50/50 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400Mhz CL19 @4200MHz CL17 1.4v -- SA 1.15v -- VCCIO 1.125v -- HCI 2000%:*


Do you have a download link for the timing config, memtest pro launcher and turbov core? can't seem to find them online.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> whats better
> Do you have a download link for the timing config, memtest pro launcher and turbov core? can't seem to find them online.


TurboV:

*http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=171986TurboV_Core_1.02.02
*

TimingConfiguratorv4.0.4.zip 2901k .zip file


MemTest.zip 16k .zip file


I use plain memtest.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> TurboV:
> 
> *http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=171986TurboV_Core_1.02.02
> *
> 
> TimingConfiguratorv4.0.4.zip 2901k .zip file
> 
> 
> MemTest.zip 16k .zip file
> 
> 
> I use plain memtest.


 MemTestProLauncher.zip 24k .zip file


----------



## idahosurge

I need some advise on entering RAM timings manually.

I have two kits of these ram kits, I know that it is recommended that you do not mix kits, but there are at least two people that post in this thread that are running two of these kits and they have them OC'ed to 4000 MHz or more, I am just trying to run at the stock 3600 MHz.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306

I have a 7820X / R6E system. I have passed HCI Memtest with 94% ram usage at 400%+ coverage with UEFI set to default OC / Ram settings.

I changed AI Overclock tuner from auto to XMP. Verified that the ram was set to 15-15-15-35-1T @ 3600 MHz @ 1.35 volts and HCI Memtest failed on four of the 16 instances with six errors before I got to much more than 200% coverage.

I changed 1T to 2T (since that is what the ram is specified at I thought I would give it a try since it failed at 1T) and HCI Memtest failed on one of the 16 instances before I got to 200% coverage.

I have read in either this thread, the Asus x299 MB thread, the R6E thread or the Skylake/Kabylake thread that using XMP can cause problems and you can use the manual setting in AI Overclock Tuner, but the only settings I know for sure about my ram is 15-15-15-35-2T @ 3600 MHz @ 1.35 volts. What about all the other second and third timing settings? What do I put for all of those? Certainly they would be a different setting than what auto had them.

*Updated 12/21/17*
Changed my primary timings to 16-16-16-36 and all my problems were solved. While the two kits did not want to run at the spec'ed timing and speed they run great at the above timings.


----------



## KedarWolf

Haven't adjusted the secondary timings yet.

I don't have a good IMC, no amount of tweaking can I do 4000MHZ.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Haven't adjusted the secondary timings yet.
> 
> I don't have a good IMC, no amount of tweaking can I do 4000MHZ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I would say it is more likely your motherboard that is limiting you. It has a max rated speed of 4000 MHz and most boards are pretty tough to get stable at their max speed. I was using a 8600K with one of the Strix boards and couldn't do 4000. Picked up the Apex when it came out and 4133 was no problem, probably 4200 with a little more patience.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

hey guys I'm kind new to this.I have a gskill tridentz rgb 3200 cl14 2x8g kit. I manage to run it at 3600 15-15-15-32-1t 1.4v io/sa both at 1.2v.I would like to push it further. It will boot in to windows at 4000-4200 around 1.43 v but aida64 memory bechmark shows w/r speed olny at 12000ish. should I buy a set of 4266kit to run above 4000 stable? or is something eles ? thanks

8700k 5.1ghz 1.35v
arous z370 gaming 7


----------



## frgntz

Sorry for my language, I have a question regarding HCImemtest itself.

First test I got an error after 392% on my OC, I tried to tune down IO/SA to see if it helps, setting higher values doesnt seem to help.

Then I got an error after 190%. Does it mean the system is more stable when the error occurs at 292% or is it just an indication, that the error can also occur at 10%?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Think an error at 392 and one at 190 is the same thing. Unstable ram.

Try more ram voltage.


----------



## frgntz

Thanks, I am at 4133 17-18-18-32 right now.

(OS values)
Vdimm 1.456
IO/SA 1.256/1.264

Tried to drop IO/SA to 1.15, doesnt seem to do anything. Same error in the range of 90-200%. It's really hard for me to tell, when IO/SA is just too much, how are you dealing with this?

I guess I could try to raise RAM voltage to ~1.47, didnt really want it to run at ~1,5V for 24/7.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

go cl18


----------



## frgntz

Is it worth to run 4133 CL18 then compared to standard 3600 CL16, losing timings against clock. I need to try CL18 and see if it passes 400% at least with same settings.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

4133 cl18 should be faster. See if it works like you said.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> The Strix is four DIMM.


Sorry, I meant 2 DIMM.


----------



## frgntz

I try that later. Is there any way to tune IO/SA correctly? All I know for sure that Auto setting is too high (MXH sets it on 1.3V+) and causes errors really fast.

Other than that, everything between 1.05-1.25V boots fine and has the same results (random error on high %), so I can't really point out what voltages need tuning.


----------



## KedarWolf

Okay, I need to do it again, I never knew that window covered the screenshot in Linux.








NEW ENTRY
KedarWolf--i7 8700K VCore---1.31V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---SA 1.2125v (BIOS)---IO 1.2125V (BIOS)---Stressapptest (Mint 18.3)----4 Hour
Samsung B-die G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


----------



## ChaosAD

This is the best i can run my Gskill Trident Z RGB 3600C16 ram. Its doesnt boot even at 4133C18 no matter what vdimm/vccio/sa i put. Going with 1T is also out of the question even at 4000. I get constant AC debug code.



Do you think i can go any tighter than this? If so what shall i tune?


----------



## Streetdragon

Play a bit with tRFC form 340 to 320-300 or so


----------



## l Nuke l

When testing ram with hci memtest and 16gb of ram how many mb do I set per instance on a 8700k? I think my ram might be faulty. Task manager said i was using 9% of ram so i set 12 instances @ 1200mb each which is 90% of 16gb and it blue screened within 20 minutes. I made sure to clear cmos before testing and ran system with default settings.


----------



## NIK1

Working on tightening my GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR today.I have them running 3733 at 15 15 15 34 1N with 1.4250v IOv 1.21250 and SAv 1.22500.Is there any that looks like I could tighten even more or does she look good for now,any suggestions appreciated.Gona try to run them at 4000 later on today.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> When testing ram with hci memtest and 16gb of ram how many mb do I set per instance on a 8700k? I think my ram might be faulty. Task manager said i was using 9% of ram so i set 12 instances @ 1200mb each which is 90% of 16gb and it blue screened within 20 minutes. I made sure to clear cmos before testing and ran system with default settings.


scrol back to lilchronic's post with the memtest prto launcher.. makes it easy. with 16GB just enter 13312 and the total # of threads the processor has.


----------



## l Nuke l

Anyone using this ram? How well does it overclock and is it samsung b die? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232621&ignorebbr=1


----------



## frgntz

I give up. I can also do absolutely nothing with my F4-3600C16D-16GTZR G.Skill. Even the slightest changes to XMP settings (manually set up) lead to errors, like only changing tRFC to 345, which should be okay. Also tried CR1, which ends up with +6ns on latency with aida? CR1 only boots with 3600, anything above won't boot.

Then I tried someones settings here for 4133 17-18-18-32 which has WAY more aggressive subtimings and it runs more stable to my surprise, but always end up with error on random percentages (30%-392% error appearing so far). Tried every combination of Vdimm/IO/SA.

Did I happen to get one of the worst kit or am I just too dumb for RAM OC? I mean it's b-dies, should't they be able to handle at least one tightened timing? Really frustrated after so much time spent on testing.


----------



## ChaosAD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*
> 
> I give up.


I have the same kit, but i can boot up to 3800 with 1T, anything above that doesnt boot no matter what. But i can run fine with 4000 17-16-16-36-2T. I m also NOT a mem OC expert but i thought this kit would have more headroom for oc.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*


Try resetting everything in BIOS to default than install a diff version of bios.

Try and start RAM OC with everything else (GPU/CPU) at default and move from there..

Make sure you Up Dram V and not Dram Eventual V.... the later you will play with later..


----------



## frgntz

Did CMOS reset few times, maybe i try to reflash newest BIOS.


----------



## encrypted11

I'm surprised I could lower the IMC voltages by 50mV from *1.15V VCCSA earlier* (Z370 ASRock BIOS only allows 50mV increments)

SEPARATE NEW ENTRY
encrypted11--i78700K VCore---1.36V (BIOS)@5.3/[email protected] (BIOS)---SA 1.10v (BIOS)---IO 1.02V (BIOS)---Stressapptest (Mint 18.1)----2 Hour
Samsung B-die G.SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW
Start


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Mid Point


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







End


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







HWInfo64


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## encrypted11

Can't tell if its a by product of the ITX board with shorter memory traces, or both the CPU and board.


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> jpmboy -- [email protected] --- 4x8GB G.Skill (2 kits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of 3600c15) --- 4000c16 --- vsa 0.795V, vccio 1.045V, VDIMM 1.45V --- HCI memtest 2627% (36 instances)


Sorry necro quote









Cache speed?

What cachevoltage do you use and what cpu inputvoltage do you use?


----------



## NIK1

When working on a memory OC and you get it stable with 2N.What voltages should one play with to get the OC to work with 1N.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Anyone using this ram? How well does it overclock and is it samsung b die? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232621&ignorebbr=1


I have that kit on my z370 mobo... runs 4266c17 1T at 1.425V. Have not tried it on x299
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Sorry necro quote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cache speed?
> 
> What cachevoltage do you use and what cpu inputvoltage do you use?


cache is at 30 ( was 1.165V, now using 1.15V with no problems). VCCIN is 1.84V. Also and cpu Aux 1 and 2 at 0.000V


core at 4.5 in the above snips


----------



## Nizzen

Tnx!
This is why i love OCN


----------



## frgntz

So I reflashed BIOS yesterday, CPU at stock to manage my RAM settings. Set up the standard XMP values manually, so I know where to start from there: 3600 16-16-16-36-2N

Vdimm obviously 1.35V which is XMP value, so I know it HAS to be enough.

For IO/SA I did a quick prime95 custom run (672-768K FFTs for IO/SA) with 90% memory, you get fast rounding errors if IO/SA is to low.

So I ended up with IO/SA ~1,15V IO beeing few mV lower, which is kinda already high for standard settings without any OC above XMP, but lower than that I got rounding errors and memtest would bring up errors.

So now I know my final settings for "stock" 3600 16-16-16-36-2N. What should I aim for now? Try tightening important subtimings or go higher like 4000 CL17-18?


----------



## encrypted11

That's "stock" for the G.SKILL kit, but they're (XMP-3200) above the stock ratings of the memory controller.

The VCCIO/SA on coffeelake is rated at JEDEC-2666 X4 at 0.95/1.05V respectively with a 5% upside at stock.
Section 7.2.
https://www.intel.sg/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/8th-gen-processor-family-s-platform-datasheet-vol-1.pdf

If you're overclocking it'll be unsurprising that you'd need to go above bone stock settings on the IMC.
As a start, you probably can raise VDIMM to 1.4V, IO/SA + 10% from Intel datasheet defaults before you'd decide on lowering or increasing the voltages when you're close to what you'd settle with.

Instead of prime95, you may want to consider short GSAT runs from @[email protected]Raja's quote in the main post.

At higher voltages (closer to 1.5V) it'll be unsurprising to see DIMM temperatures going to 70+C and you'll likely exacerbate the bad copy/write rates etc with GSAT hammering your DIMMs at high heat.
Make sure your DIMMs are having some form of active airflow on the DIMMs while running GSAT. Also, avoid memory stress testing within your daily OS disk environment. That's a good way to introduce data corruption into your machine. Working on a throwaway copy of windows or USB bootable linux distro might be a better start.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *encrypted11*
> 
> That's "stock" for the G.SKILL kit, but they're (XMP-3200) above the stock ratings of the memory controller.
> 
> The VCCIO/SA on coffeelake is rated at JEDEC-2666 X4 at 0.95/1.05V respectively with a 5% upside at stock.
> Section 7.2.
> https://www.intel.sg/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/8th-gen-processor-family-s-platform-datasheet-vol-1.pdf
> 
> If you're overclocking it'll be unsurprising that you'd need to go above bone stock settings on the IMC.
> As a start, you probably can raise VDIMM to 1.4V, IO/SA + 10% from Intel datasheet defaults before you'd decide on lowering or increasing the voltages when you're close to what you'd settle with.
> 
> Instead of prime95, you may want to consider short GSAT runs from @[email protected]'s quote in the main post.
> 
> At higher voltages (closer to 1.5V) it'll be unsurprising to see DIMM temperatures going to 70+C and you'll likely exacerbate the bad copy/write rates etc with GSAT hammering your DIMMs at high heat.
> Make sure your DIMMs are having some form of active airflow on the DIMMs while running GSAT. Also, avoid memory stress testing within your daily OS disk environment. That's a good way to introduce data corruption into your machine. Working on a throwaway copy of windows or USB bootable linux distro might be a better start.


If we're being technical, best that we clear up a few things from this post.

1) It is not "stock" for the GSKILL kit, either. It's simply the designated timing and frequency bin that GSKILL has adopted for it.

2) I'm not sure what data you're basing those temperatures on, but 70C and beyond at that voltage is likely an extreme case. The modules simply do not produce enough heat at these voltages for this to happen unless airflow is highly restricted.

3) The OP is trying to reach speeds of 4000 and beyond. Assuming the kit has sufficient guardband and is able to reach these speeds - the other obstacle is that these speeds on 4 DIMM boards can be tricky in some instances.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*
> 
> So I reflashed BIOS yesterday, CPU at stock to manage my RAM settings. Set up the standard XMP values manually, so I know where to start from there: 3600 16-16-16-36-2N
> 
> Vdimm obviously 1.35V which is XMP value, so I know it HAS to be enough.
> 
> For IO/SA I did a quick prime95 custom run (672-768K FFTs for IO/SA) with 90% memory, you get fast rounding errors if IO/SA is to low.
> 
> So I ended up with IO/SA ~1,15V IO beeing few mV lower, which is kinda already high for standard settings without any OC above XMP, but lower than that I got rounding errors and memtest would bring up errors.
> 
> So now I know my final settings for "stock" 3600 16-16-16-36-2N. What should I aim for now? Try tightening important subtimings or go higher like 4000 CL17-18?


I would suggest testing stability at 1T command rate before progressing any further and testing with HCI and GSAT as instructed in the opening post. Prime can be tailored to stress DRAM but is not a memory stress test.


----------



## encrypted11

I mentioned "stock". I hope I'm not talking semantics. But I'm not disagreeing with you.









But I could replicate the DIMM (sandwiched) temperatures after hours with GSAT on mint I mentioned while I was matching the sticks to slots albeit just being 2 sticks, side by side without any direct airflow at my 28-34c ambients. I'm talking 3-5 hours GSAT with warmed air from a small ITX custom loop intake rads with fans at low RPM.

With the cabling next to RAMs and res going in there I don't think its that impossible.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!















I'd imagine this will be less of an issue with less airflow restraints.


----------



## frgntz

That's why I called it "stock" settings, because I know the XMP is already the OC of the stock settings, but that's how I buy the kit. So I call the standard XMP settings "stock".

I only used prime to get a really rough estimate of what IO/SA/Vdimm I need. How am I supposed to tell what the OC needs if I get an error in memtest? For rough voltages I can directly enable 800K (Vdimm) or 620-768K (IO/SA), so I have some start values. If I get rounding errors there already, so it's save to say, the OC won't be able to pass HCI.

I am new to RAM OC, but I got the basics I think. Maybe you can tell me, how are you dealing with finding perfect IO/SA voltages.


----------



## encrypted11

I'm not good at overclocking memory at all, just that my CPU sample's making me look better than I actually am honestly.
Always settled with XMP and a manual IO/SA before the current CPU and board.

But from what I gathered here before I settled, this might be a decent start (dummy guide I'd say?)
1. I'd go with a higher IO/SA (0.95/1.05 maybe +10% above stock?)
2. Perhaps raise VDIMM to 1.4-1.45
3. Look for the G.SKILL product pages, look at those 4000+ 16GB kits and make their primary timings your manual "target"
4. Check for cold booting problems, post codes (react by tweaking +/- SA/IO & primaries)
5. You may want to run blocks of 20 minute GSAT runs if you think you're at a comfortable RAM setting you'd like to test.
6. When you're close without errors, work on the secondary, third and forth timings.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Stressapp is more stressful than HCI for testing memory alone. HCI's load is a bit more spread to the cache, while Stressapp is more memory bus isolating. They both have their use, but if testing memory alone, then Stressapp is a quicker way of finding errors.


You should get closer eventually. When you found something you'd like to keep, start working backwards and lower your voltages till you meet the sweetspot (VDIMM/SA/IO).
Scroll through the pages & gallery pics of this thread, you may find something you'd like to replicate or work on.


----------



## frgntz

Thanks, it's just really time consuming and frustrating when you can't even tell what's wrong with the OC. Few days ago I tested someones settings here for 4133 and it looked promising, then I get an error at 392% and now what? Vdimm too low? IO/SA too low or too high? After days of tweaking and experimenting with voltages I couldn't get it stable, you can't pinpoint what the problem is or I am just too inexperienced. So I started with "stock" to make small steps.

Since I got a very good 8700K (5,0 @ 1,248V AVX), so I wanted to try OCing RAM.


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frgntz*
> 
> Thanks, it's just really time consuming and frustrating when you can't even tell what's wrong with the OC. Few days ago I tested someones settings here for 4133 and it looked promising, then I get an error at 392% and now what? Vdimm too low? IO/SA too low or too high? After days of tweaking and experimenting with voltages I couldn't get it stable, you can't pinpoint what the problem is or I am just too inexperienced. So I started with "stock" to make small steps.
> 
> Since I got a very good 8700K (5,0 @ 1,248V AVX), so I wanted to try OCing RAM.


What cache frequency are your running on?


----------



## frgntz

Cache is 4,5GHz. But as I said, to get any problems out of the way, I CMOSd and ocd RAM on CPU stock settings.


----------



## KedarWolf

Entry Deleted

Reason: Wrong memory configuration, was only running single channel, I disabled channel B and had them both in Channel A.


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Any tips to how I can get my G.skill 4266 mhz CL19 stable...? Even at 1.4V 3600-16-16-36-2T is getting errors at 175% in memtest.. CPU has been tested and works with 4266mhz ram. Tried to different motherboards. Both Z370 HERO X and now I'm using a Taichi.

Bought the ram kit used and I've talked to the seller. They worked great for him.. But I don't know.. Bought from him before, nice guy.

Tried using IO and SA at 1.200V, still errors.. Tried newert BIOS(es). Same issue. Tried CPU on stock, same issue.

I have been having a hard time stabilizing my 8700K when the mem is giving meg page file BSOD errors.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> Any tips to how I can get my G.skill 4266 mhz CL19 stable...? Even at 1.4V 3600-16-16-36-2T is getting errors at 175% in memtest.. CPU has been tested and works with 4266mhz ram. Tried to different motherboards. Both Z370 HERO X and now I'm using a Taichi.
> 
> Bought the ram kit used and I've talked to the seller. They worked great for him.. But I don't know.. Bought from him before, nice guy.
> 
> Tried using IO and SA at 1.200V, still errors.. Tried newert BIOS(es). Same issue. Tried CPU on stock, same issue.
> 
> I have been having a hard time stabilizing my 8700K when the mem is giving meg page file BSOD errors.


if anyone is having trouble getting 4133 or 4200 stable try a few things, raise all your times up a notch from what worked at 4000.

Also try 2T instead of 1T.

Also, go to the bottom of your RAM timings page until you see 'DRAM CLK Period' and put that from Auto to say 21 or 22.

Auto seems to make me unstable.

As well, I find I'm more stable with LESS SA and VCCIO, if I keep them at 1.215 I have more stability than putting them higher but your results will vary.


----------



## BTrRJ

Any tip to overclock a 16gb HyperX Predator 3000 cl15 single Channel? Pc does not boot on any frequency after 3100 (stock times). Tried 3200 cl19 and 1.4v to get some room, but even this way it returns to BIOS with faulty.

i7 8700k
ASRock z370 Fatal1ty Gaming k6 lastest bios
GTX 1080 ftw evga
Corsair cx600 psu


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> if anyone is having trouble getting 4133 or 4200 stable try a few things, raise all your times up a notch from what worked at 4000.
> 
> Also try 2T instead of 1T.
> 
> Also, go to the bottom of your RAM timings page until you see 'DRAM CLK Period' and put that from Auto to say 21 or 22.
> 
> Auto seems to make me unstable.
> 
> As well, I find I'm more stable with LESS SA and VCCIO, if I keep them at 1.215 I have more stability than putting them higher but your results will vary.


Problem is that I can't even do 3600 16-16-36-2T 1.400V.. :O


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> if anyone is having trouble getting 4133 or 4200 stable try a few things, raise all your times up a notch from what worked at 4000.
> 
> Also try 2T instead of 1T.
> 
> Also, go to the bottom of your RAM timings page until you see 'DRAM CLK Period' and put that from Auto to say 21 or 22.
> 
> Auto seems to make me unstable.
> 
> As well, I find I'm more stable with LESS SA and VCCIO, if I keep them at 1.215 I have more stability than putting them higher but your results will vary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is that I can't even do 3600 16-16-36-2T 1.400V.. :O
Click to expand...

See my post above with timings, voltages, HCI MemTest run.

Edit: Our if you're using four DIMMs do a custom search with my user name and find my 3900MHZ stressapptest run.


----------



## frgntz

Another question: Why is there only 1 preset profile on z370 Maximus x Hero for 2x8GB Samsung SS b-dies (0802 bios)? I wanted to play around the presets using the subtimings and changing primary a bit, but there is only 1 and it's for 4000Mhz. Browsing random guides I see z170 or z270 had so many presets.


----------



## NIK1

I see in post 5835 DRAM CLK Period is mentioned..Can anyone let me know what this setting does.I have always left this setting on auto since I did not know what it tweaks.Is this a setting where lower is better.I tried 21 down to 14 and it boots into windows ok.


----------



## KedarWolf

Anyone in Canada check out this website.

https://www.softwarecity.ca/

I bought a Maximus X Formula motherboard from them and here is my email to them to their Customer Service.

"I ordered a motherboard from you yesterday. I had the shipping address postal code wrong, your sales department called me within 30 minutes minutes to correct this.

Also, you sent it Purolater with less than $10.00 shipping costs, I ordered it yesterday and it came today before Xmas Day.

Also, you were the only retailer that had the item in stock. Not even Canada Computers locally or newegg.ca had it.

And your price was below anyone else that had the motherboard advertised.

Thank you!"

Highly recommend them.


----------



## cekim

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12179/samsung-starts-mass-production-of-8-gb-ddr43600-ics
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anandtech*
> Samsung late on Wednesday said that it had initiated mass production of DDR4 memory chips using its second generation '10 nm-class' fabrication process. .... The new DRAM ICs (integrated circuits) can operate at 3600 Mbit/s per pin data rate (DDR4-3600) at standard DDR4 voltages and have been validated with major CPU manufacturers already.


----------



## KedarWolf

On my way home with this.

What an absolutely beautiful motherboard, worth a look.

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-X-FORMULA/


----------



## EDK-TheONE

Currently i bought TridentZ 4000CL19-19-19-41. i have MSI Z270 M7 with latest official bios.the memory is in QVL list.. the issue is system is not stable even @ xmp profile in gaming or memtest.







i also set SA/IO voltage as default (1.4v volt !!!) but still not stable. so i set @ 3866 and tweak timing with below settings and system is fully stable in memtest (200% tested) and bf1.



please suggest for better tweaking.


----------



## becks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*


I could'v swear you will go with the Hero!

Ohh well... I have to buy it now myself...

I do prefer the look of a Monoblock over Vram block + Cpu block..but that's personal preference..


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> I see in post 5835 DRAM CLK Period is mentioned..Can anyone let me know what this setting does.I have always left this setting on auto since I did not know what it tweaks.Is this a setting where lower is better.I tried 21 down to 14 and it boots into windows ok.


If stable best to leave this in auto. It allows for the use of timing sets for different DRAM dividers, which can help with overclocking. A lower value is better depending on the DRAM frequency applied.


----------



## NIK1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If stable best to leave this in auto. It allows for the use of timing sets for different DRAM dividers, which can help with overclocking. A lower value is better depending on the DRAM frequency applied.


Thanks for the info.Yesterday I tried it from 21 down to 5,it booted at 5 but it took a while to boot then crashed during a memory stress test.I then tried it at 7 and stress tested and it passed with flying colors.Windows seems a little more snappier with this on 7 compared to auto.Plus a little better score with aida64 cache and mem benchmark.


----------



## Asmola

There is new RAM tester, *15x* faster than HCI memtest and very easy to use.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1644432/great-new-memory-stability-tester-ram-test/0_20


----------



## KedarWolf

Update (4x8GB) 32GB

KedarWolf--i7 8700K VCore---1.30V (@4.9/[email protected] 32GB (4x8GB) ---4000MHz-C18-18-18-39-2T----VDIMM1.46v (BIOS)---SA 1.2375v (BIOS)---IO 1.2125V (BIOS)---HCI MemTest 880%
Samsung B-die G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


----------



## GreedyMuffin

I've been having all sorts of memory problems..

But my G.skill 4266 mhz Cl19 1.400V kit sets the auto voltage on all stock (2133 mhz) settings to 1.425V...

Tried another bios, tried updating the bios, tried reflashing the bios..

Is it just that the bricks are faulty?


----------



## DR4G00N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> I've been having all sorts of memory problems..
> 
> But my G.skill 4266 mhz Cl19 1.400V kit sets the auto voltage on all stock (2133 mhz) settings to 1.425V...
> 
> Tried another bios, tried updating the bios, tried reflashing the bios..
> 
> Is it just that the bricks are faulty?


Do they run fine @ XMP spec? If they do I wouldn't be worried about it. I believe the voltage they spec is the default for all settings and not just XMP.

Besides, most boards overvolt or undervolt the VDIMM anyway by at least 25mV. My Z170M OCF overvolts by 60mV over what is set in the bios.


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Nope. They don't work fine at all..

Can't even boot on XMP.. tried HERO X and now this Taichi.

Can't even get 3600 cl16-16-16-36 2t stable at 1.400V..

Bios says 1.400V on default.. So overvolting them by 25mv.


----------



## DR4G00N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> Nope. They don't work fine at all..
> 
> Can't even boot on XMP.. tried HERO X and now this Taichi.
> 
> Can't even get 3600 cl16-16-16-36 2t stable at 1.


I'm assuming you have also bumped up the VCCSA & VCCIO accordingly? 1.25V should do for both.

If you have, then yeah it's probably faulty memory, I'd get them replaced asap.


----------



## GreedyMuffin

I've tried as high as 1.300V for a short period of time. No difference.

I really hope my IMC/cache is fine on this CPU.

Thanks alot!


----------



## ThrashZone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> I've been having all sorts of memory problems..
> 
> But my G.skill 4266 mhz Cl19 1.400V kit sets the auto voltage on all stock (2133 mhz) settings to 1.425V...
> 
> Tried another bios, tried updating the bios, tried reflashing the bios..
> 
> Is it just that the bricks are faulty?


Hi,
I had close to the same thing on my x99 memory couldn't do anything with it
Removed and reinstalled not any different
Finally removed the cpu power plugs and reinstalled seemed to fix it using xmp profile 2 now at x45


----------



## Rezal

Does one of you have a recommendation how to check IMC stability? It appears my IO and SA need some tweaking, but doing that based on sporadic crashes rather than with a targeted test is very frustrating.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Does one of you have a recommendation how to check IMC stability? It appears my IO and SA need some tweaking, but doing that based on sporadic crashes rather than with a targeted test is very frustrating.


GSAT for an hour in Linux, HCI MemTest to at least 400% but the quickest new way is this.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1644432/great-new-memory-stability-tester-ram-test/0_20


----------



## Rezal

HCI Memtest does not seem to provoke IMC crashes, did 400% easily there. Will check out the new thing. Can you tell apart failing memory or failing IMC somehow?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> HCI Memtest does not seem to provoke IMC crashes, did 400% easily there. Will check out the new thing. Can you tell apart failing memory or failing IMC somehow?


You need to run HCI multiple instances, one for each thread your CPU has, and when they are all running using about 93-94% of your RAM.

I have a script you can use which loads them all with memory already set.

Which CPU and how much RAM are you running?

And which HCI, free version or Pro 6.0


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You need to run HCI multiple instances, one for each thread your CPU has, and when they are all running using about 93-94% of your RAM.
> 
> I have a script you can use which loads them all with memory already set.
> 
> Which CPU and how much RAM are you running?
> 
> And which HCI, free version or Pro 6.0


what script do you use? I am interested. I am using pro 6.0 and a 8700k


----------



## Rezal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You need to run HCI multiple instances, one for each thread your CPU has, and when they are all running using about 93-94% of your RAM.
> 
> I have a script you can use which loads them all with memory already set.
> 
> Which CPU and how much RAM are you running?
> 
> And which HCI, free version or Pro 6.0


6 Pro. I tend to run 9 instances with my 8700K. 1667 per instance, 16 GB RAM installed. This is the max where Windows won't start using the page file or something and run it super slow. 9 instances ran faster than 12 for me.

Just did a 1000% run with RAM Test and hopefully stable IMC voltages. This thing is fast.
Edit: Suspected bad settings also made it to 1000%


----------



## djgar

That's why I like the Deluxe version, a few bucks more but I just boot from a CD and no Windows or scripts to worry about.


----------



## KedarWolf

Update 4x8GB 4133MHZ
KedarWolf--i7 8700K VCore---1.32V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---SA 1.2125v (BIOS)---IO 1.2125V (BIOS)---Stressapptest (Mint 18.3)----1 Hour

Samsung B-die G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreedyMuffin*
> 
> Nope. They don't work fine at all..
> 
> Can't even boot on XMP.. tried HERO X and now this Taichi.
> 
> Can't even get 3600 cl16-16-16-36 2t stable at 1.400V..
> 
> Bios says 1.400V on default.. So overvolting them by 25mv.


Looking at your post history, you need to take baby steps.

If you're worried about your CPU IMC, check out VCCIO/SA (0.95/1.05 at Intel defaults +5%). 6 Core version is rated to run JEDEC 4x DDR4 2666 with a +5% max per intel datasheet DC specifications.

Run a single DIMM at its DDR4-2133 profile, probably 1.35V for VDIMM and see if it fails. Cache probably at 4000MHz before adding DIMMs. Run it through GSAT probably 20 minutes. Test all slots 1 at a time and look out for hardware errors. If you had repeated fails on a particular slot (e.g. Slot A2), try a stress testing with a different stick and see if the issue reoccurs.

If it still fails to run the rated specifications that's probably the CPU..


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *encrypted11*
> 
> Looking at your post history, you need to take baby steps.
> 
> If you're worried about your CPU IMC, check out VCCIO/SA (0.95/1.05 at Intel defaults +5%). 6 Core version is rated to run JEDEC 4x DDR4 2666 with a +5% max per intel datasheet DC specifications.
> 
> Run a single DIMM at its DDR4-2133 profile, probably 1.35V for VDIMM and see if it fails. Cache probably at 4000MHz before adding DIMMs. Run it through GSAT probably 20 minutes. Test all slots 1 at a time and look out for hardware errors. If you had repeated fails on a particular slot (e.g. Slot A2), try a stress testing with a different stick and see if the issue reoccurs.
> 
> If it still fails to run the rated specifications that's probably the CPU..


There's zero point testing a single stick at that voltage at defaults, so not sure why you've thrown that in there. JEDEC is 1.2v for all modules. Also it's recommended to run GSAT for 1 hour as a minimum


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> There's zero point testing a single stick at that voltage at defaults, so not sure why you've thrown that in there. JEDEC is 1.2v for all modules. Also it's recommended to run GSAT for 1 hour as a minimum


Just wanted to be extra sure.

If you looked at his post history, he was having issues with the M10H at fairly low memory speeds or the top spectrum of "plug-and-play" (XMP-3600) per [email protected] and his issues with memory overclocking (and even HCI memtest) persist with his current board, the Taichi.

As a preface, he seemed to be running a prebinned 5.3GHz chip but had a pretty bad experience with memory overclocking since his first board came.

Nobody knows how the chip was delidded (and what tool or a blade/DE razor blade) and there is potential for the substrate to suffer from damage in the process. I suppose a sanity check on the memory channels would be a start for ruling out a chip issue than validating an overclock?


----------



## Silent Scone

Hi all, please also try this new tool that was posted earlier in the week by @CptKuolio. http://www.overclock.net/t/1644432/great-new-memory-stability-tester-ram-test/0_40#post_26515785

https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/

The software comes in at $10 but has had very positive results thus far for me in picking up errors on known conditional settings. Let us know how well it compares to both HCI and Stress App for you.


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Was delidded and relidded at a Norwegian computer/tech shop, so it was done profesional with a tool and relidded once done.

I can easily boot .ex 3866 mhz CL16-16-36-1T-374 1.425V. VA and IO is at around 1.185V at the moment.

Seems like reinstalling the CPU and cleaning the underside along with lowering cache has helped. But XMP will still not boot.

I'm not home right now, but before I left I started 6 instances of HCI memtest with 2500mb each. Will see if that is stable once I am home.

I doubt it, but we'll see.

Cache is 400-500mhz lower than the cire clock to gain full stability. I thought you almost could run the at a 1:1 ratio.

EDIT: I will invest the finnish tool. We scandinavians gotta' stick togheter, hehe.


----------



## CptKuolio

Hi, thanks for the compliments @Silent Scone. While I'm here on this thread might as well share some memory OC-experiences.

My setup is: Z370 Taichi, 8700K delidded, 5Ghz AVX FMA3 stable @1.408Vcore (1.932V continuous, spikes to higher). My RAM is G.Skill 3600CL15.

In the following pictures RAM Test was still in alpha/beta, and it was called Mem Test. For obvious reason (there is n^2 amount of memory utilities called "Mem Something" on market) Mustanaamio changed the name to RAM Test (not many of those going around). So I've been doing memory overclocking for a relatively short time now, got into it with Ryzen and sticked with it on Coffeelake too. Seems to give great benefits at some tasks or games, like PUBG for example.

My best stable settings have been 4266Mhz CL17-18-18-39-2t.



The highest memory frequency I am able to boot up at all is 4300. 4400 wont boot no matter how loose timings and how much current I dial in RAM, VCCIO or VCCSA.



But I know Taichi can do 4400Mhz, there is a user over at bbs.io-tech.fi who is able to boot 4400 and run it borderline stable;


All credits fromt his to io-tech.fi user "Divvy" , he was not able to get that fully stable so he backed down to 4266CL16-17.

Lately our memory-testing thread has been a little sidetracked. We have been mostly concentrating on how amazing Z370 Taichi memory support is. There is a ton of people at iotech.fi who bought the Taichi because some us had noticed already on Z170 (Luumi if you are reading this, thanks!) how good Asrocks memory support is. And now we have noticed that it is currently almost on par with Asus Apex, a much more expensive board with only two dimmslots.

Only thing with Taichi is that it handles automatic training of memory pretty badly after 4100Mhz or 4200Mhz. It trains secondary and third values way off, resulting in write speeds of 40k or something. Here is an example:



So with Taichi you might not be even able to boot over 4200Mhz frequencies with "auto" settings secondary&third, but when you dial in reasonable numbers you propably will boot







What I have found to be meaningfull are tCKE (insert value between 8 to 11 to fix 'write hole'), and then those values shown circulated on previous picture.

Hope you guys enjoy RAM Test as much as I. It has pretty much 'revolutionized' my attitude towards Memory Overclocking. Previously it took so long between changes to bench stability, that I mostly stuck with XMP settings. RAM Test is so fast, while being accurate, that it makes memory OCing a lot faster then before.

Merry Christmas to all memory-a-holics!


----------



## Rezal

General question: Is 1.45 V considered safe for 24/7 with B-die and Coffee Lake IMC? Might be able to run 4266 CL17 at 1.456 V measured.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> General question: Is 1.45 V considered safe for 24/7 with B-die and Coffee Lake IMC? Might me able to run 4266 CL17 at 1.456 V measured.


Yes, that is safe. VCCSA and VCCIO ~1.25v max.


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptKuolio*
> 
> Lately our memory-testing thread has been a little sidetracked. We have been mostly concentrating on how amazing Z370 Taichi memory support is. There is a ton of people at iotech.fi who bought the Taichi because some us had noticed already on Z170 (Luumi if you are reading this, thanks!) how good Asrocks memory support is.


It might not just be the Taichi. The "worst" ASRock board which is a 4DIMM did 4200MHz from Der8auer's battle of the cheap.









Maybe its some Nick Shih magic.?

Anyway what are the lowest voltage adjustments allowed on your Taichi with the vccSA? It's 50mV on the fatal1ty itx


----------



## gecko991

Great board, got one sitting here just waiting for the Card.


----------



## GreedyMuffin

10mv per adjustment on Taichi.


----------



## Pyounpy-2

pyounpy-2 -- i7 8700K @5.2/4.8 1.44V(bios:1.4 LLC 7)---4000Mhz-C15-15-15-32-1T----1.504v(bios:1.500v)---VCCSA 1.256v(bios:1.2375v)---VCCIO 1.256v(bios:1.225v)--HCi Memtest 600%


----------



## Rezal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Yes, that is safe. VCCSA and VCCIO ~1.25v max.


Perfect, will do in depth testing when I am back at my main PC.


----------



## l Nuke l

hwinfo64 reporting IO up to 1.28 and SA up to 1.264 while running gsat. Are those voltages okay? I set IO/SA in bios to 1.225v


----------



## GreedyMuffin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> hwinfo64 reporting IO up to 1.28 and SA up to 1.264 while running gsat. Are those voltages okay? I set IO/SA in bios to 1.225v


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> VCCSA and VCCIO ~1.25v max.


----------



## ottoore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> hwinfo64 reporting IO up to 1.28 and SA up to 1.264 while running gsat. Are those voltages okay? I set IO/SA in bios to 1.225v


You can check actual voltages.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ottoore*
> 
> You can check actual voltages.


yeah the multimeter i have at home sucks and i really dont trust it.


----------



## l Nuke l

Just started overclocking my ram. Have it clocked at 4266 17t 17t 17t 38t 374t 1t. Dram at 1.425v, SA at 1.2v, IO at 1.1875v. Hci memtest finds an error at about 100%. My question is how do i know what voltages to raise? Btw cpu is at 5.2 core, -1avx offset, 4.8 cache, 1.385vcore


----------



## djgar

So, how much faster is RAM Test than Stressapptest & HCI? And does it take cache into good consideration?

Inquiring minds who recently spent $14 on HCI Deluxe (again after 3 years) would like to know


----------



## Rezal

Can't say anything about cahce errors, but speed wise we are talking about 15 to 20 times as fast as HCI.


----------



## l Nuke l

What does q code 55 mean when overclocking ram?


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> What does q code 55 mean when overclocking ram?


QCode 55 - I would look towards SA voltage. This one can take a "less is more" approach to tune correctly.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> QCode 55 - I would look towards SA voltage. This one can take a "less is more" approach to tune correctly.


had a feeling it was sa related or io. Thanks.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> What does q code 55 mean when overclocking ram?


I get Code 55 when I have incompatible RAM timings.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I get Code 55 when I have incompatible RAM timings.


after adjusting voltages it seems to be running hci memtest well. Approaching 500% will post results soon. Hopefully no errors!


----------



## l Nuke l

HCI Memtest found an error at 953%!!! Noooooo! Was about to end test too and call it "Stable".







What do you guys think I need to tweak? It's almost there. Rtl's and IO-l's are on auto.


----------



## mouacyk

I think you can blame that one safely on neutrinos speeding through space.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> I think you can blame that one safely on neutrinos speeding through space.


lmao so you think I should just leave it and call it good?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> lmao so you think I should just leave it and call it good?


Errors that late on can be due to cache instability, too


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Errors that late on can be due to cache instability, too


Man this is tough work. Okay so do you think I should just up vcore from 1.39 to 1.4 and test again? Leave SA/IO and Dram voltages alone?


----------



## l Nuke l

Also still getting 55 error code when restarting or cold booting. Is SA voltage the only thing that needs adjusting to fix this or does IO voltages effect this too?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Also still getting 55 error code when restarting or cold booting. Is SA voltage the only thing that needs adjusting to fix this or does IO voltages effect this too?


Like I said i get that error with unstable timings. Tweaking my timings it goes away.


----------



## l Nuke l

What do u guys set maximus tweak to mode 1 or 2? Ive left it on auto. Also how do u set dram write latency?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> What do u guys set maximus tweak to mode 1 or 2? Ive left it on auto. Also how do u set dram write latency?


I have a weak IMC, need to put it Mode 1, write latency I keep at 13.

This is what I have stable. Can get you easier BIOS screenshots if it helps.


----------



## KedarWolf

Actually, got an instability until I raised tRAS


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Actually, got an instability until I raised tRAS


how do you know what to set what to? Is there a guide for what to set the timings to?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Actually, got an instability until I raised tRAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do you know what to set what to? Is there a guide for what to set the timings to?
Click to expand...

No guide, a ton of trial and error and stress testing with RAM Test and GSAT.


----------



## ESRCJ

I can't seem to get my kit stable at 4000MHz. Does anyone have any advice on what I should tweak? Voltages don't seem to be the issue currently, as raising them do nothing. Here are my settings and info:



I have all secondary and tertiary timings set to auto except tRFC, which I want at 300 since this seems to have the biggest impact on latency for me. Raising this doesn't seem to help with stability anyways. I've been stumped on this for most of the week. Voltages are 1.42 vdimm, 0.9 SA, 1.05 IO. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I've been getting errors in memtest usually between 60 and 150 percent, with the count being 2 or 3 each run.


----------



## Martin778

How's this?



By the way my rig won't even post with such low voltages like 0.9V SA /1.05V IO, forget it - hangs on POST every time.
This is at ~0.95 SA and ~1.10 IO and 1.45V on RAM.


----------



## LancerB1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I have a weak IMC, need to put it Mode 1, write latency I keep at 13.
> 
> This is what I have stable. Can get you easier BIOS screenshots if it helps.


Could you show your UEFI settings? Enter UEFI and then Tool -> Asus Overclocking Profile ->Load/Save Profile to USB -> ctrl + F2 - save the current BIOS setting. This will be a .txt file with the current UEFI settings.
THX


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerB1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I have a weak IMC, need to put it Mode 1, write latency I keep at 13.
> 
> This is what I have stable. Can get you easier BIOS screenshots if it helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you show your UEFI settings? Enter UEFI and then Tool -> Asus Overclocking Profile ->Load/Save Profile to USB -> ctrl + F2 - save the current BIOS setting. This will be a .txt file with the current UEFI settings.
> THX
Click to expand...

 4133MHZ_setting.txt 76k .txt file


BIOS Screens below.

I'm only at 4.9GHZ, waiting for my delid tool and EK-Supremacy EVO Elite Edition - Intel 115x CPU block to arrive.










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## LancerB1

Thank you, good man


----------



## l Nuke l

Randomly getting 04 and 55 post codes when cold booting or just regular rebooting. Ram overclocked to 4266 17t 17t 17t 38t 374t 1t all other timings left on auto. 1.425v dram and eventual dram, sa/io set to 1.215v. It can pass hci memtest for couple hours but not stable at boot


----------



## Martin778

Oh, I have the same issue - just reboot the PC and it wil eventually start. My R6A will hang on "bd" on cold boot every now and then.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martin778*
> 
> Oh, I have the same issue - just reboot the PC and it wil eventually start. My R6A will hang on "bd" on cold boot every now and then.


Thats not a real fix. My issue is overclock related. Need someone with experience to guide me on which voltages i have to mess with so it posts consistently.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Thats not a real fix. My issue is overclock related. Need someone with experience to guide me on which voltages i have to mess with so it posts consistently.


55 just refers to problems with ram in general. Its not specifically related to any single setting.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> 55 just refers to problems with ram in general. Its not specifically related to any single setting.


when you are overclocking your ram you dont run into this issue?


----------



## Martin778

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Thats not a real fix. My issue is overclock related. Need someone with experience to guide me on which voltages i have to mess with so it posts consistently.


This is what overclocking is, it might run 8h of stress testing but have trouble booting.
Your only bets are:
A) Increase the bootup voltage on RAM to 1.45-1.5V and VCCIO/VCCSA a bit more
B) Let it retry memory training a few more times at boot.


----------



## yoyo711

New to Memory OC
I have a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 / 8700K 5.1 @ 1.34 voltage
Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz 16-18-18-36 1.35 voltage Ver 4.31 Samsung B dics
I can push 3800MHZ 1.42 voltage 16-18-18-36
Can I push more????????????????

Thanks.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> New to Memory OC
> I have a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 / 8700K 5.1 @ 1.34 voltage
> Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz 16-18-18-36 1.35 voltage Ver 4.31 Samsung B dics
> I can push 3800MHZ 1.42 voltage 16-18-18-36
> Can I push more????????????????
> 
> Thanks.


I have the same board and the best I can do is 3600 15-15-15-28-1t 1.4v stable. I tried to push it to 1.45 and 3600+ no luck.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> New to Memory OC
> I have a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 / 8700K 5.1 @ 1.34 voltage
> Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz 16-18-18-36 1.35 voltage Ver 4.31 Samsung B dics
> I can push 3800MHZ 1.42 voltage 16-18-18-36
> Can I push more????????????????
> 
> Thanks.


Some CPUs won't do 1T.

Here's what I did to get 2T stable on my 3200 b-die.

Write Recovery Time is 14 in BIOS though,

BIOS screenshots in Spoiler.

Forgot memory timings, brb.









Memory timings added to the spoiler. I hate trying to figure them out from AsrockTiming Configurator.




Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## yoyo711

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Some CPUs won't do 1T.
> 
> Here's what I did to get 2T stable on my 3200 b-die.
> 
> Write Recovery Time is 14 in BIOS though,
> 
> BIOS screenshots in Spoiler.
> 
> Forgot memory timings, brb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory timings added to the spoiler. I hate trying to figure them out from AsrockTiming Configurator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I tried did this setting but no luck tho.... No boot to the window
3600 15-15-15-28-1t vs 4125 17-18-18-39-2t
Which one is faster????

Thank you?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> I have the same board and the best I can do is 3600 15-15-15-28-1t 1.4v stable. I tried to push it to 1.45 and 3600+ no luck.


I try it's work 3600 15-15-15-28-1t vs 3800 16-18-18-36-2t
Which one is faster???

Thank you


----------



## EDK-TheONE

TridentZ 3200CL14, VDram=1.35


----------



## yoyo711

3600 15-15-15-28-1t



How come my memory read and write and copy so slow??????????????????????

Thanks


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> 3600 15-15-15-28-1t
> 
> 
> 
> How come my memory read and write and copy so slow??????????????????????
> 
> Thanks


Did you run any stability test with 3600 cl15? I can boot up to windows with 4133 but when I run aida64 I also get low performance score. If you run ram test or something you will see the memory oc is not stable.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> 3600 15-15-15-28-1t
> 
> 
> 
> How come my memory read and write and copy so slow??????????????????????
> 
> Thanks


Do you have 4x8GB sticks or 2x16GB?

If 2x16GB they need to be in the light grey slots on Asus boards and/or the correct ones on other boards or they'll only run single channel and have slow benchmarks.

If it's 4x8GB then yes, there are issues with the memory or timings and settings.


----------



## yoyo711

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Do you have 4x8GB sticks or 2x16GB?
> 
> If 2x16GB they need to be in the light grey slots on Asus boards and/or the correct ones on other boards or they'll only run single channel and have slow benchmarks.
> 
> If it's 4x8GB then yes, there are issues with the memory or timings and settings.


I have 2 x 16GB.........


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> I have 2 x 16GB.........


I put mine in ddr4_2 and ddr4_1. I have cold boot issue when put in the other two slot.


----------



## yoyo711

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> I put mine in ddr4_2 and ddr4_1. I have cold boot issue when put in the other two slot.


I Put ddr4_2 and ddr4_1 same as you tho......


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> I Put ddr4_2 and ddr4_1 same as you tho......


You need to run some test with memtest or something first.or use 2T and run aida64 again.


----------



## yoyo711

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> You need to run some test with memtest or something first.or use 2T and run aida64 again.


I try ddr4_2 and ddr4_1, ddr4_4 and ddr4_3, ddr4_4 and ddr4_2 And stock XMP 3200 No Luck Score very low...









I'll try memtest now get back to you

Thanks guys tho......... +REP for dbq5anlxj , KedarWolf


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Do you have 4x8GB sticks or 2x16GB?
> 
> If 2x16GB they need to be in the light grey slots on Asus boards and/or the correct ones on other boards or they'll only run single channel and have slow benchmarks.
> 
> If it's 4x8GB then yes, there are issues with the memory or timings and settings.
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 x 16GB.........
Click to expand...

You probably have it in the wrong slots then.

Which motherboard?


----------



## yoyo711

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You probably have it in the wrong slots then.
> 
> Which motherboard?


Gigabyte z370 Aorus Gaming 7 I try every slots tho...
Now I'm testing memtest now


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> You probably have it in the wrong slots then.
> 
> Which motherboard?
> 
> 
> 
> Gigabyte z370 Aorus Gaming 7 I try every slots tho...
> Now I'm testing memtest now
Click to expand...

Slots 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.


----------



## yoyo711

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Slots 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.


Just reset the bios and reinput OC and it just fixed it was the same setting tho.....

Here Thanks Guy~~~~~~


----------



## l Nuke l

About how long does 2000% of hci memtest take for 2×8gb sticks?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> About how long does 2000% of hci memtest take for 2×8gb sticks?


Over 9000!!









I j/k, I dunno, maybe 10-12 hours.


----------



## l Nuke l

Lmao ah okay cool that was my guess lol


----------



## Rezal

9.5 hours if your memory is really fast. I could do 100% in 28 minutes at 4266 CL18.


----------



## l Nuke l

So I wanted to try GSAT in linux mint but i cant get it installed on my pc. When I try to boot my linux mint usb its starts to boot then "nouveau error" just spams my screen and i am forced to restart pc. Any one have this issue? Is it even worth installing linux mint? Does GSAT work just as well in windows bash?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> So I wanted to try GSAT in linux mint but i cant get it installed on my pc. When I try to boot my linux mint usb its starts to boot then "nouveau error" just spams my screen and i am forced to restart pc. Any one have this issue? Is it even worth installing linux mint? Does GSAT work just as well in windows bash?


When you're at the boot menu, highlight the top item, hit E on your keyboard, edit before Quit Splash and add nomodeset with a space before and after.

Do the same thing when you get it installed and boot from the install boot menu, then under Administration in the installed Linux Mint choose 'Drivers' and install all the drivers it finds and the Nvidia ones, not Nouveau.

Then you won't need to do nomodeset anymore.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> When you're at the boot menu, highlight the top item, hit E on your keyboard, edit before Quit Splash and add nomodeset with a space before and after.
> 
> Do the same thing when you get it installed and boot from the install boot menu, then under Administration in the installed Linux Mint choose 'Drivers' and install all the drivers it finds and the Nvidia ones, not Nouveau.
> 
> Then you won't need to do nomodeset anymore.


lol my heads spinning right. When i first read what you said looked like gibberish lol. Okay, so, before the word splash hit spacebar type "nomodeset" spacebar than f10 to boot?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> When you're at the boot menu, highlight the top item, hit E on your keyboard, edit before Quit Splash and add nomodeset with a space before and after.
> 
> Do the same thing when you get it installed and boot from the install boot menu, then under Administration in the installed Linux Mint choose 'Drivers' and install all the drivers it finds and the Nvidia ones, not Nouveau.
> 
> Then you won't need to do nomodeset anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> lol my heads spinning right. When i first read what you said looked like gibberish lol. Okay, so, before the word splash hit spacebar type "nomodeset" spacebar than f10 to boot?
Click to expand...

Before 'Quiet Splash' type nomodeset then F10, yes.


----------



## Hydroplane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> So I wanted to try GSAT in linux mint but i cant get it installed on my pc. When I try to boot my linux mint usb its starts to boot then "nouveau error" just spams my screen and i am forced to restart pc. Any one have this issue? Is it even worth installing linux mint? Does GSAT work just as well in windows bash?


Yes, the issue is your 1080 Ti, I had the same problem running Mint on my rig, the solution Kedar Wolf posted works.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Before 'Quiet Splash' type nomodeset then F10, yes.


your the man gonna try it now


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> Yes, the issue is your 1080 Ti, I had the same problem running Mint on my rig, the solution Kedar Wolf posted works.


ah okay good to know. Hooefully this works.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Before 'Quiet Splash' type nomodeset then F10, yes.


it worked! It asked me if i wanted to unmount drives and i chose no as i did not know what that means. Also it asked if i wanted to install 3rd party drivers i chose yes. Sound about right?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Before 'Quiet Splash' type nomodeset then F10, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> it worked! It asked me if i wanted to unmount drives and i chose no as i did not know what that means. Also it asked if i wanted to install 3rd party drivers i chose yes. Sound about right?
Click to expand...

After you install Mint go to Administration then Drivers and install all drivers there, choose Nvidia for your GPU, then you won't have to do nomodeset to boot.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> After you install Mint go to Administration then Drivers and install all drivers there, choose Nvidia for your GPU, then you won't have to do nomodeset to boot.


i did this and it told me to restart and not it wont boot screen just goes black after choosing linux mint


----------



## l Nuke l

Fixed it


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoyo711*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Slots 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just reset the bios and reinput OC and it just fixed it was the same setting tho.....
> 
> Here Thanks Guy~~~~~~
Click to expand...

Figured this out from your issue.

Rep +1.

If you have bad read, write and copy speeds, go into Profiles in BIOS, CTRL F2, save your settings to a .txt file.

Then F5 in BIOS, load BIOS defaults, boot into Windows, shut down. (I actually flashed the BIOS after shutting down but I think BIOS defaults only needed).

Now boot into BIOS, DON'T load your profile from the profile manager in BIOS but MANUALLY put in all your settings and timings.

I went from 60k read, 43k write and 43k copy to 61k read, 64k write, 58k copy.


----------



## ESRCJ

I'm absolutely puzzled. I ran 1000% HCI without any errors with the following profile:



With the exact same profile, I can't even get past 30% today without any errors... This is incredibly frustrating.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> I'm absolutely puzzled. I ran 1000% HCI without any errors with the following profile:
> 
> 
> 
> With the exact same profile, I can't even get past 30% today without any errors... This is incredibly frustrating.


Likely due to training drift from when the system was tested initially.


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Likely due to training drift from when the system was tested initially.


Do you think there's anything I can do about this or am I out of luck with this OC? I'm fairly new at memory overclocking, so I'm unfamiliar with what training drift is.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> Do you think there's anything I can do about this or am I out of luck with this OC? I'm fairly new at memory overclocking, so I'm unfamiliar with what training drift is.


At this point I would just reevaluate what's stable and what isn't. Raising CAS one clock would be the simplest solution.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> I'm absolutely puzzled. I ran 1000% HCI without any errors with the following profile:
> 
> 
> 
> With the exact same profile, I can't even get past 30% today without any errors... This is incredibly frustrating.


If you have bad read, write and copy speeds, or if you get Mem Test errors on same profile, go into Profiles in BIOS, CTRL F2, save your settings to a .txt file.

Then F5 in BIOS, load BIOS defaults, boot into Windows, shut down. (I actually flashed the BIOS after shutting down but I think BIOS defaults only needed).

Now boot into BIOS, DON'T load your profile from the profile manager in BIOS but MANUALLY put in all your settings and timings.

I went from 60k read, 43k write and 43k copy to 61k read, 64k write, 58k copy.

And no more errors in Mem Test.









Edit: Also trying blowing out your DIMM slots and resetting your DIMMs in carefully.

I've had errors until i did that as well.


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 16Gb 4266C19 @ 4304 Mhz -C17-18-18 39- 1T --- 1.46vdimm --- 1.21v vsa ---- 1.21v vccio --- hci memtest 600%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA

Struggled a while back with 4300Mhz then used settings that KederWolf put up earlier and it worked.


----------



## l Nuke l

Does this look right to you guys? Seems kinda funky to me that hci memtest pro launcher is showing shared memory being used number so low. normally they are above a thousand. Think its an issue or it in normal for this value to vary?


----------



## freaky35

Hello all!,

What max 24/7 voltage is save for hynix SK chips.
I have seen that it can take(absolute max!) 1.5v?

is above 1.4 to 1.45save or?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freaky35*
> 
> Hello all!,
> 
> What max 24/7 voltage is save for hynix SK chips.
> I have seen that it can take(absolute max!) 1.5v?
> 
> is above 1.4 to 1.45save or?


Same as all other DDR4 IC, keep things under 1.5v


----------



## toncij

What are the fastest 16GB and 32GB kits one can buy today? In terms of overall performance. What to sacrifice?


----------



## Asmola

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toncij*
> 
> What are the fastest 16GB and 32GB kits one can buy today? In terms of overall performance. What to sacrifice?


Buy G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 or 3600C15 kit, most of those overclock equally or better compared to 4266C19 kit. I have 4133C19 and 4266C19 kit's, "slower" one overclocks better.


----------



## l Nuke l

So i loaded up rajas 4133 memory profile, set dram to 1.4, SA to 1.275 and IO to 1.25 and hci memtest coverage is at 450% right but still running. I am inexperienced with ram over clocking so I have a fee questions.
1. If memtest finds an error at like 800% does that mean that dram voltage needs to be increased? Or could it be some other voltages that need tweaking? If so which ones?
2. If ram is stable in hci memtest for like 8 hours but fails to post sometimes with 55 q code does that mean that the dram voltage used to pass memtest is okay but SA and IO need to be adjusted?


----------



## DR4G00N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asmola*
> 
> Buy G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 or 3600C15 kit, most of those overclock equally or better compared to 4266C19 kit. I have 4133C19 and 4266C19 kit's, "slower" one overclocks better.


That's really all about luck. Any 8GB Trident Z B-Die can oc great. The only thing to stay away from is the RGB stuff because it has a different pcb that doesn't oc as well.
Galax HOF B-Die is good too.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> So i loaded up rajas 4133 memory profile, set dram to 1.4, SA to 1.275 and IO to 1.25 and hci memtest coverage is at 450% right but still running. I am inexperienced with ram over clocking so I have a fee questions.
> 1. If memtest finds an error at like 800% does that mean that dram voltage needs to be increased? Or could it be some other voltages that need tweaking? If so which ones?
> 2. If ram is stable in hci memtest for like 8 hours but fails to post sometimes with 55 q code does that mean that the dram voltage used to pass memtest is okay but SA and IO need to be adjusted?


EDIT hci memtest found an error at 650% coverage. Going to increase dram from 1.4 to 1.42. What do u guys think?


----------



## freaky35

i have had a This kind of error with my ram, just. A bit more voltage was nessesary to have The memory stable like 0.010 v more


----------



## freaky35

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Same as all other DDR4 IC, keep things under 1.5v


Ok, Thank you??


----------



## l Nuke l

Ram Overclocking has got to be the most fustrating thing ever! So when I first got this kit (gskill 4400c19 2x8gb) I used the speed and timings posted by jpmboy in the chart on the front page of this thread which were 4266c17 and I was able to run hci memtest til 950% before getting an error. Since then I have tried 4266 with looser timings higher voltages and most recently 4133 with rajas preset loaded with dram at 1.45 and IO/SA at 1.25/1.275 and still getting errors. Sometimes the error dont show up till 650% or they show up as early as 100% its so random. Even tried dram as high as 1.475 and no luck. I even clear cmos before trying different ram configs and underclocked my core and cache with no luck. I've also done an 11 hour run (1300% coverage) with stock settings to rule out faulty ram. Any advice?


----------



## freaky35

Aren't you pushing the ram too much? And so The mem controller. 4200mhz is very high. Would be a waste if you push It too much.

Stock mem controller speed is 2666mhz, yours is running about 50 %higher then normal, Thats a big diference ?


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freaky35*
> 
> Aren't you pushing the ram too much? And so The mem controller. 4200mhz is very high. Would be a waste if you push It too much.
> 
> Stock mem controller speed is 2666mhz, yours is running about 50 %higher then normal, Thats a big diference ?


Too much? This is OCN


----------



## freaky35

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Ram Overclocking has got to be the most fustrating thing ever! So when I first got this kit (gskill 4400c19 2x8gb) I used the speed and timings posted by jpmboy in the chart on the front page of this thread which were 4266c17 and I was able to run hci memtest til 950% before getting an error. Since then I have tried 4266 with looser timings higher voltages and most recently 4133 with rajas preset loaded with dram at 1.45 and IO/SA at 1.25/1.275 and still getting errors. Sometimes the error dont show up till 650% or they show up as early as 100% its so random. Even tried dram as high as 1.475 and no luck. I even clear cmos before trying different ram configs and underclocked my core and cache with no luck. I've also done an 11 hour run (1300% coverage) with stock settings to rule out faulty ram. Any advice?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Too much? This is OCN


If you like to destroy your hardware, go ahead.


----------



## moorhen2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Ram Overclocking has got to be the most fustrating thing ever! So when I first got this kit (gskill 4400c19 2x8gb) I used the speed and timings posted by jpmboy in the chart on the front page of this thread which were 4266c17 and I was able to run hci memtest til 950% before getting an error. Since then I have tried 4266 with looser timings higher voltages and most recently 4133 with rajas preset loaded with dram at 1.45 and IO/SA at 1.25/1.275 and still getting errors. Sometimes the error dont show up till 650% or they show up as early as 100% its so random. Even tried dram as high as 1.475 and no luck. I even clear cmos before trying different ram configs and underclocked my core and cache with no luck. I've also done an 11 hour run (1300% coverage) with stock settings to rule out faulty ram. Any advice?


Upping the ram voltage is not always the answer, try playing with the SA and IO voltages, more so the SA, sometimes less is more. And of course your chips IMC will be a big factor as well.


----------



## Menthol

Capabilities of each CPU vary wildly and probably account for most of these issues, you realize this when you happen to get a very good sample and all of a sudden you seem to have skills of a professional OCer.


----------



## l Nuke l

I cleared cmos and used the settings that i used to clear 950% hci memtest. It didnt find an error till 950 so hopefully for normal usage is fine and doesnt corrupt files. Ive been at the ram for over a werk now. I quit lol


----------



## tistou77

The G.Skill 4000 C18 RGB 2x8GB ( F4-4000C18D-16GTZR) have the same "performance", OC capability, etc... as the G.Skill 4000 C18 4x8GB (F4-4000C18Q-32GTZSW) ?
I read that the RGB were a little less "performant" in OC

It's for X299

Thanks


----------



## TurricanM3

http://abload.de/image.php?img=cachemem_trefi1sesqm.png

http://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt2mtp7j.png

Manually optimized and 2000%+ coverage stable.


----------



## L36

Though I'd post my BWE results.

[email protected]/3.7---3200Mhz-C14-14-14-34-1T----1.36v---SA 0.992v---Stressapptest---9000 Seconds



Interesting thing is that I was HCI stable for 400% but I would fail GSAT within 600 seconds on same identical settings. I would not recommend using HCI anymore due to this, I needed another 0.040V to my cache to get GSAT stable.


----------



## Exalanoto

Hello.

Can someone advice me how to get my XMP profile stable?

I am currently running 8700k, Maximus X hero, G.skill 2x8gb 3600mhz ( F4-3600C16D-16GTZR )

I have tried running the stock XMP profile, with manually setting my timings, voltage from 1.35-1.37, oc'd the cpu to 4.7. But it BSOD's and crashes randomly.

it will run stable on 3200mhz, 14-14-14-34 timings.

I am not rly good at memory settings, im tired of googling, and i am wondering iff i should RMA something before i go mentally insane


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Hello.
> 
> Can someone advice me how to get my XMP profile stable?
> 
> I am currently running 8700k, Maximus X hero, G.skill 2x8gb 3600mhz ( F4-3600C16D-16GTZR )
> 
> I have tried running the stock XMP profile, with manually setting my timings, voltage from 1.35-1.37, oc'd the cpu to 4.7. But it BSOD's and crashes randomly.
> 
> it will run stable on 3200mhz, 14-14-14-34 timings.
> 
> I am not rly good at memory settings, im tired of googling, and i am wondering iff i should RMA something before i go mentally insane


XMP does not always work. Try setting your stock CL timings manually and see if that works. Read through the op (first page) of this thread lots of good information.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nizzen*
> 
> Too much? This is OCN











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freaky35*
> 
> If you like to destroy your hardware, go ahead.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L36*
> 
> Though I'd post my BWE results.
> 
> [email protected]/3.7---3200Mhz-C14-14-14-34-1T----1.36v---SA 0.992v---Stressapptest---9000 Seconds
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting thing is that I was HCI stable for 400% but I would fail GSAT within 600 seconds on same identical settings. I would not recommend using HCI anymore due to this, I needed another 0.040V to my cache to get GSAT stable.


weird i normally pass gsat easily and fail hci memtest


----------



## l Nuke l

So here is a screenshot stable at 600% hci memtest 

and an error 19 minutes later lol 

I Quit !! lol! Should I lower DRAM? up the the SA? lower the IO? hate ram overclocking.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> XMP does not always work. Try setting your stock CL timings manually and see if that works. Read through the op (first page) of this thread lots of good information.


Stock cl timings with xmp enabled? I have done that. Still BSOD.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Stock cl timings with xmp enabled? I have done that. Still BSOD.


what cpu and mobo are you using?


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> what cpu and mobo are you using?


8700k and Maximus X hero Z370


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> 8700k and Maximus X hero Z370


if u have msi afterburner running in the background close it. On my system it causes bsods.


----------



## L36

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> weird i normally pass gsat easily and fail hci memtest


I think GSAT and HCI has different testing methods. One tests cache and memory while other only focuses on memory testing. HCI fixates on memory alone it seems but GSAT goes after anything that can hold data including cache. Also I speculate GSAT is always hard on memory bandwidth this is where the ring bus gets hit a lot.

My memory was stable with HCI, ringbus and cache certainly was not.


----------



## Exalanoto

No msi Afterburner running or installed


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Stock cl timings with xmp enabled? I have done that. Still BSOD.


No turn off XMP and set manual timmings. This is just a start to see if it boots and runs stable.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> if u have msi afterburner running in the background close it. On my system it causes bsods.


You have something else making your machine unstable.


----------



## l Nuke l

So i think i have a theory to why my ram oc is inconsistently stable and not stable. I think its has nothing to do with voltages. I noticed that when i reboot the rtls and iols change and depending on what they change to sometimes its more stable then other times. Anyone have experience with this?


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> You have something else making your machine unstable.


no legit msi afterburner was making me bsod with everything at factory defaults when running realbench and hci memtest. I even exchanged my ram cpu and mobo and it still happened. It wasnt until i closed msi afterburner that i stopped getting bsod when running those two programs.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> no legit msi afterburner was making me bsod with everything at factory defaults when running realbench and hci memtest. I even exchanged my ram cpu and mobo and it still happened. It wasnt until i closed msi afterburner that i stopped getting bsod when running those two programs.


Are you running the latest version of MSI Afterburner? If not update it and see if this helps. Update your nvidia drivers and due a clean install with. DDU. Only install the physics and display drivers.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> No turn off XMP and set manual timmings. This is just a start to see if it boots and runs stable.


I set the xmp to manual, put everything manually, my mb is looping to «safe» mode due to instability. I went in bios again and put 3200mhz and it booted normally again


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> I have tried running the stock XMP profile, with manually setting my timings, voltage from 1.35-1.37, oc'd the cpu to 4.7. But it BSOD's and crashes randomly.
> 
> it will run stable on 3200mhz, 14-14-14-34 timings.


Have you tried with CPU at stock?


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Have you tried with CPU at stock?


Yes, and still bsod. It does not bsod on stock everything, with no xmp and no ram tuning what so ever. So iam a bit clueless of what to do. Eighter tune some cpu volts etc. or rma the cpu or ram


----------



## mouacyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TurricanM3*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://abload.de/image.php?img=cachemem_trefi1sesqm.png
> 
> http://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt2mtp7j.png
> 
> 
> 
> Manually optimized and 2000%+ coverage stable.


How do you set AIDA64 to only bench the memory and not the caches?


----------



## TurricanM3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> How do you set AIDA64 to only bench the memory and not the caches?


Double click on memory.


----------



## ChaosAD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TurricanM3*
> 
> http://abload.de/image.php?img=cachemem_trefi1sesqm.png
> 
> http://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt2mtp7j.png
> 
> Manually optimized and 2000%+ coverage stable.


More details please, what ram you use and show us all the subtimings








These are some very good speeds


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> I set the xmp to manual, put everything manually, my mb is looping to «safe» mode due to instability. I went in bios again and put 3200mhz and it booted normally again


What memory kit do you have?


----------



## l Nuke l

How do you guys feel about running a ram overclock that can pass 2hours of gsat and 600% coverage hci memtest but run it for any longer than that and an error will show up. The most demanding thing that will be done on this rig is gaming and benchmarking. Think ill run into any issues?


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> How do you guys feel about running a ram overclock that can pass 2hours of gsat and 600% coverage hci memtest but run it for any longer than that and an error will show up. The most demanding thing that will be done on this rig is gaming and benchmarking. Think ill run into any issues?


You need to be able to run at least a 1000% HCI memtest with no errors to be stable. Any error means it's not stable. If not you could run into stability issues while gaming. Are you running about 90% of the memory with one instance per thread? Best way is to look at the Windows task manager and see how much memory is being used when your machine is at idle. Take the remaining memory at divide by the number of threads on your CPU. Run for at least 1000% with no errors. See below all trimmings set manually primary, secondary and third timings.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> You need to be able to run at least a 1000% HCI memtest with no errors to be stable. Any error means it's not stable. If not you could run into stability issues while gaming. Are you running about 90% of the memory with one instance per thread? Best way is to look at the Windows task manager and see how much memory is being used when your machine is at idle. Take the remaining memory at divide by the number of threads on your CPU. Run for at least 1000% with no errors. See below all trimmings set manually primary, secondary and third timings.


I run it between 90-95% take a look at this screenshot. Hci didnt pick up an error till 950% if that woulda been 1050% does that mean it woulda been "stable" since it completed 1000% no errors? Lol know what i mean? U can pass 1000% and fail at 1001%.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> What memory kit do you have?


G.skill trident 2x8gb 3600, it is the samsung chips. Cl 16 kit. The exact model number is posted a little furter up.


----------



## Rezal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> So here is a screenshot stable at 600% hci memtest
> 
> and an error 19 minutes later lol
> 
> I Quit !! lol! Should I lower DRAM? up the the SA? lower the IO? hate ram overclocking.


Lower tREFI to 16637 (JEDEC spec) and see whether that helps. Too much time between refrehes could cause occasional errors.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Lower tREFI to 16637 (JEDEC spec) and see whether that helps. Too much time between refrehes could cause occasional errors.


will try that now thanks


----------



## KedarWolf

Update - Better Timings 4x8GB 4133MHZ

KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.34V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.20v (BIOS)---SA 1.2375V (BIOS)---HCI MemTest 1000%

Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> G.skill trident 2x8gb 3600, it is the samsung chips. Cl 16 kit. The exact model number is posted a little furter up.


Try setting manual stock primary timings everything else on auto. Post your vsa and vccio voltages.


----------



## Rezal

Anybody here who got 4400 running on the Z370 Taichi?


----------



## CptSpig

I run it between 90-95% take a look at this screenshot. Hci didnt pick up an error till 950% if that woulda been 1050% does that mean it woulda been "stable" since it completed 1000% no errors? Lol know what i mean? U can pass 1000% and fail at 1001%.[/quote]


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



IMG]ALT=""]http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/3179637/width/350/height/700[/IMG]


990#post_26525577"]

I toke a the screen shot at 1000%+ but ran to 2000%. Yes any error any time is a error and means the memory has a issue. Are you using the latest version?


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Lower tREFI to 16637 (JEDEC spec) and see whether that helps. Too much time between refrehes could cause occasional errors.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> will try that now thanks


Best to leave tREFI on auto until memory is stable. After the memory is stable than you can play with secondary and third timings.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Best to leave tREFI on auto until memory is stable. After the memory is stable than you can play with secondary and third timings.


yeah maybe i have been going about it the wrong way. So you suggest i set speed and primaries first? Im gonna start with 4266 17t 17t 17t 38t 374t 1t and leave everything else on auto. Also gonna set dram to 1.425 and sa and io to 1.21 and 1.2. Hows that sound ?


----------



## eminded1

I have my kit of 2133 16gb kit 2x8gb crucial ballistix ram overclocked to
3000mhz 16-18-18-36-2t, @
1.2v VDIMM,
DMI 1.0v
CPU SA - 1.2v
VPPDDR 2.5v
CPU VCCIO 1.0v
PCH 1.0v

not a bad oc. prime 95 stable to 1 hr, aida64 stable 1 hr aswell as realbench stable 1 hr, Not bad for a 2133 kit first time I overclocked ram past the rated specs since the days of ddr2, but yea its working. get a 15mbps boost in aida for mem read/write/copy, I want to try to get it up to 3200, I tried 3333, but it wasn't posting, What do you recommend to get more MHZ out of my kit, Maybe increasing VDIMM or the VCCIO, I got my i7 8700k at 5GHZ .03 + Offset Stable at 1.28v temps are not an issue let me know. I just bought an nother kit also, its gskill 16GB 3000MHZ () it has Samsung Die b Chips I read there supposed to go 4GHz + on the oc. I'm looking forward to trying those. but this 3000mhz oc on this stock 2133 ram is not bad at all. Let mek now thanks


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> yeah maybe i have been going about it the wrong way. So you suggest i set speed and primaries first? Im gonna start with 4266 17t 17t 17t 38t 374t 1t and leave everything else on auto. Also gonna set dram to 1.425 and sa and io to 1.21 and 1.2. Hows that sound ?


Yes, that sounds like a good start. What kit are you using?


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Yes, that sounds like a good start. What kit are you using?


g.skill 4400c19 2x8gb kit


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Yes, that sounds like a good start. What kit are you using?


hci found an error at 200%. Tried to reebot into bios and got 04 q code. So i booted into safe mode and increased dram from 1.425 to 1.45 and rebooted and got qcode 49 then 2b so again i booted in safe mode and increased SA/IO from 1.21/1.20 to 1.23/1.21 and got same error so increased them up another notch to 1.25/1.22 and did a couple cold boots and reboots and seems fine now. Gonna test again with hci.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Try setting manual stock primary timings everything else on auto. Post your vsa and vccio voltages.


i will give this a go Tommorow, is there a possibility that too much VCCIO, etc can make the ram unstable aswell? i just noticed after i earlier put the xmp to manual that it put my DRAM voltage to auto, and it was running 1.5v I went back and put it to 1.36 again.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> i will give this a go Tommorow, is there a possibility that too much VCCIO, etc can make the ram unstable aswell? i just noticed after i earlier put the xmp to manual that it put my DRAM voltage to auto, and it was running 1.5v I went back and put it to 1.36 again.


Yes your vdimm and vsa voltage are to high. Try your vdimm at 1.40v and vsa, vccio at 1.20v.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Yes your vdimm and vsa voltage are to high. Try your vdimm at 1.40v and vsa, vccio at 1.20v.


Done, lets see if it manages to stresstest in Aida..


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Yes your vdimm and vsa voltage are to high. Try your vdimm at 1.40v and vsa, vccio at 1.20v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Done, lets see if it manages to stresstest in Aida..
Click to expand...

AIDA isn't a good stress test for RAM.

Do you have HCI MemTest Pro 6.0, or download the free version.

If you do I'll give you a script that neatly arranges the MemTest in even rows with the memory amount already set.









I just need your CPU and amount of RAM you're testing.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> AIDA isn't a good stress test for RAM.
> 
> Do you have HCI MemTest Pro 6.0, or download the free version.
> 
> If you do I'll give you a script that neatly arranges the MemTest in even rows with the memory amount already set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just need your CPU and amount of RAM you're testing.


8700k, 16gb ram, the system is using 2.5gb of that. No, i dont have the HCI memtest, but i can download the free version now. how long would a test like that last?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DR4G00N*
> 
> That's really all about luck. Any 8GB Trident Z B-Die can oc great. The only thing to stay away from is the RGB stuff because it has a different pcb that doesn't oc as well.


The difference with a not RGB kit is "huge" ?
I hesitate to test a G.Skill kit 4000 C18 RGB or not RGB (B-Die)
My Platinum Special Edition does not boot at 4000 (B-Die too)

But I think I'll wait for the next RGB 4000 17-17-17 1.35v
should be better


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> AIDA isn't a good stress test for RAM.
> 
> Do you have HCI MemTest Pro 6.0, or download the free version.
> 
> If you do I'll give you a script that neatly arranges the MemTest in even rows with the memory amount already set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just need your CPU and amount of RAM you're testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 8700k, 16gb ram, the system is using 2.5gb of that. No, i dont have the HCI memtest, but i can download the free version now. how long would a test like that last?
Click to expand...

 MemTest.zip 16k .zip file


AutoHotkey_1.1.26.01_setup.zip 2998k .zip file


6700k1133Memory.zip 0k .zip file


Install the AutoHotKey program, it'll add right-click options to the .ahk file.

Unzip the 6700k1133Memory.zip and MemTest.zip, put both files in the same folder.

If you installed AutoHotKey you'll have new right-click options.

Choose 'Run this script' on the .ahk file.

You should be using about 94% of your RAM.

Or you can right click, 'Edit this script' and adjust 1133 to the RAM size you want.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> MemTest.zip 16k .zip file
> 
> 
> AutoHotkey_1.1.26.01_setup.zip 2998k .zip file
> 
> 
> 6700k1133Memory.zip 0k .zip file
> 
> 
> Install the AutoHotKey program, it'll add right-click options to the .ahk file.
> 
> Unzip the 6700k1133Memory.zip and MemTest.zip, put both files in the same folder.
> 
> If you installed AutoHotKey you'll have new right-click options.
> 
> Choose 'Run this script' on the .ahk file.
> 
> You should be using about 94% of your RAM.
> 
> Or you can right click, 'Edit this script' and adjust 1133 to the RAM size you want.


Thanks, already 1 step ahead







should i be running 6 windows or 12?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> MemTest.zip 16k .zip file
> 
> 
> AutoHotkey_1.1.26.01_setup.zip 2998k .zip file
> 
> 
> 6700k1133Memory.zip 0k .zip file
> 
> 
> Install the AutoHotKey program, it'll add right-click options to the .ahk file.
> 
> Unzip the 6700k1133Memory.zip and MemTest.zip, put both files in the same folder.
> 
> If you installed AutoHotKey you'll have new right-click options.
> 
> Choose 'Run this script' on the .ahk file.
> 
> You should be using about 94% of your RAM.
> 
> Or you can right click, 'Edit this script' and adjust 1133 to the RAM size you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, already 1 step ahead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> should i be running 6 windows or 12?
Click to expand...

12, one for each thread.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 12, one for each thread.


I ran 6 at first to 100% and no errors, running 12 now to check, how many % is recomended to run?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> 12, one for each thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ran 6 at first to 100% and no errors, running 12 now to check, how many % is recommended to run?
Click to expand...

At least 400%, 1000% is recommended.

And CTRL ALT DEL, make sure you are using 92-94% of your memory in task manager.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> At least 400%, 1000% is recommended.
> 
> And CTRL ALT DEL, make sure you are using 92-94% of your memory in task manager.


I will just leave it til i wake up, and hopefully it didnt hard crash or bluescreen til then. Happy new years to everyone


----------



## Menthol

Exalanoto, I have my fingers crossed buddy, hope you find that sweet spot


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Exalanoto, I have my fingers crossed buddy, hope you find that sweet spot


Hopefully it works now







0 errors on arround 1200%


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Exalanoto, I have my fingers crossed buddy, hope you find that sweet spot
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully it works now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 0 errors on arround 1200%
Click to expand...

When you open the Task Manager are you using 90-94% of your total memory?


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> When you open the Task Manager are you using 90-94% of your total memory?


Yes, it was steady 94% when i went off, and 94% when i came back to it.


----------



## DR4G00N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> The difference with a not RGB kit is "huge" ?
> I hesitate to test a G.Skill kit 4000 C18 RGB or not RGB (B-Die)
> My Platinum Special Edition does not boot at 4000 (B-Die too)
> 
> But I think I'll wait for the next RGB 4000 17-17-17 1.35v
> should be better


It's not really a problem unless your trying to run 4000+ @ 12-12-12 in which they don't do so well because the PCB being different from the non-rgb dimm's.

If your just trying to run them in a daily driver then they are just fine.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DR4G00N*
> 
> It's not really a problem unless your trying to run 4000+ @ 12-12-12 in which they don't do so well because the PCB being different from the non-rgb dimm's.
> 
> If your just trying to run them in a daily driver then they are just fine.


ok, I will have the same thing with these 2 kits and 4000 17-17-17 for example
Just different with very tight timings

Thanks


----------



## japau

VCC DRAM: 1.45V
VCCSA: 1.25V
VCCIO: 1.24V

G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-4133C19-GTZR 8GB x 2

RGB Kits are totally fine with any 24/7 OC.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *japau*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCC DRAM: 1.45V
> VCCSA: 1.25V
> VCCIO: 1.24V
> 
> G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-4133C19-GTZR 8GB x 2
> 
> RGB Kits are totally fine with any 24/7 OC.


only 30 mins?


----------



## KedarWolf

Update - Lowered RTLs 4x8GB 4133MHZ

KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.30V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---HCI MemTest 400%

Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:Originally Posted by *Exalanoto* 

Hopefully it works now







0 errors on arround 1200%











Now you can tweak it for more performance.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can tweet it for more performance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/quote
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can tweet it for more performance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suggest upping the mhz, or tweaking some timings? is there allot to gain from tweaking the timings?
Click to expand...


----------



## TurricanM3

Further optimized:


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

hello guys








i was running 4x8gb b-dies 4000 16-17-16-38 1t on rampage apex
but now i change it for better vrm board taichi xe
and i buy one more 32gb kit same G.Skill rgb 3200 14-14-14-34

i tried same subtimings for 4000 but at 4000 system feel only 48gb out of 64
so i come back to 3733 and i hope for lower timings
mb someone has experience with 8 sticks of b-die ram?
what timings are possible?
my voltages for now are
vdimm 1.5 - 1.55v
vccio 1.25-1.3v
vcsa 1.25-1.3v
uncore offset + 0.350

asrock mem oc tweaker and asus mem tweakit dont show me proper information so here are bios captures


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

i need to show you this
cant hold it inside myself


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DR4G00N*
> 
> That's really all about luck. Any 8GB Trident Z B-Die can oc great. The only thing to stay away from is the RGB stuff because it has a different pcb that doesn't oc as well.
> Galax HOF B-Die is good too.


well, yes and no - mostly no...

The 3200C14 and 3600C15 are really well binned chips as a function of their ability to turn around
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> i need to show you this
> cant hold it inside myself


Very nice, if EXTREME!!!! on the lettering









3D print or CNC?


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> 3D print or CNC?


its CNC pawa!


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exalanoto*
> 
> You suggest upping the mhz, or tweaking some timings? is there allot to gain from tweaking the timings?


Yes you can have gains running a higher frequency or tighter timings. I have a 3600 MHz 16-16-16-36 CR2 kit running at 4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 CR1. See the read write scores below.


----------



## LancerB1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Update - Lowered RTLs 4x8GB 4133MHZ
> 
> KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.30V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---HCI MemTest 400%
> 
> Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


Hi! Could you show setings at "RTL IOL Control" page?


----------



## JMTH

JMTH---6850K @ 4.5 Core / 3.5 Cache --- Memory 3200 Mhz C13-14-13-29-1T --- VCore 1.385v Adaptive --- Cache +0.186v Offset --- DRAM 1.400v --- SA +0.160v Offset --- VCCIO CPU 1.13125v --- LLC 5 --- 2 hour Gsat (Ubuntu) Stressapptest -W -M 55000 -s 7200 --pause_delay 10800 --- 1687.9% HCI --- 2989% RamTest --- G.Skill Kit: F4-3300C16Q-64GTZKW --- ASUS Rampage V Edition 10.



Had to average HCI, with version 6.0 it seems like 2-4 are running very slow still.




Finally had time to nail the new MB down.

Quick question, anyone else that owns a RVE10 feel that you have to reset the BIOS a little too often? It seemed like I had to do it at least once every 1 to 2 days while working on the OC.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerB1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Update - Lowered RTLs 4x8GB 4133MHZ
> 
> KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.30V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---HCI MemTest 400%
> 
> Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! Could you show setings at "RTL IOL Control" page?
Click to expand...

To lower RTLs etc. DON'T manually lower them in the BIOS.

Lower CHA IO_Latency_offset like I did.









I can go as low as 14 and still boot but get RAM Test errors unless I'm set at 16.


----------



## NeoandGeo

I always thought that CH Latency Offset moreso affected IOL values, and that higher was better, something changed? Mine defaults to 21 with 4x8GB, used to have to set this manually to 21 with 4-Dimms filled else it would set itself to 14 and give worse RTL values.


----------



## doni007

Hey guys,

I've been trying to get 4266 CL17-18-18-39 stable and my results are super weird. First, I ran the new RAM Test and it passed 2000% (subtimings in the last spoiler)


Spoiler: RAM Test 2000 %







Yesterday it failed at 843% (same settings). I've tried running the test a few times and sometimes it can go over 1000% with no errors and sometimes it can't break 200%.

I also tried WinGSAT and it failed after 40mins. I upped the DRAM voltage from 1.4322 (BIOS) to 1.45 (BIOS) and it passed 1hr. However, the same settings can't go past 50% on RAM Test!


Spoiler: GSAT 1hr pass







I tried changing VCCIO,SA,DRAM, upping VCore with no help. 4266MHz with XMP timings and voltage 19-19-39 (DRAM 1.405v) seems to consistently pass 1000%. So my guess it's *the tighter timings or the memory training.* However, I'm a total noob when it gets to these settings and would love your advice!

Settings:
8700k 4.9/4.0 @ 1.312v
RAM: G.Skill 16GB 4266CL19 F4-4266C19D-16GTZR
ASUS Z370-I Strix

BIOS settings:

Core/Cache: 49/40
VCORE: 1.312 LLC5
DRAM: 1.4322
VCCIO: 1.21
VCCSA: 1.23



Spoiler: Today's RAM Test failed at 1324 %






`

*EDIT:* It seems HCI is more consistent and fails from 45-90%


Spoiler: HCI Fail


----------



## freaky35

have you tried HCI memtest also ?


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freaky35*
> 
> have you tried HCI memtest also ?


Hey, I just finished doing so. It seems HCI is more consistent and fails from 45-90%


Spoiler: HCI Fail







Starting to have doubts about this new tool.


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Hey, I just finished doing so. It seems HCI is more consistent and fails from 45-90%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HCI Fail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to have doubts about this new tool.


Try changing Four Activate Window (tFAW) to 24 or slightly above 24
As min tFAW is 4X tRRD_S


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Hey, I just finished doing so. It seems HCI is more consistent and fails from 45-90%
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HCI Fail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to have doubts about this new tool.
> 
> 
> 
> Try changing Four Activate Window (tFAW) to 24 or slightly above 24
> As min tFAW is 4X tRRD_S
Click to expand...

Is anyone really sure all those old rules still apply with Z370?


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Is anyone really sure all those old rules still apply with Z370?


Ohh, so you mean it no longer applies? If so, then apologies in advance!


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Is anyone really sure all those old rules still apply with Z370?
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh, so you mean it no longer applies? If so, then apologies in advance!
Click to expand...

No, I'm asking if they do or not.

Different platform, and it seems everyone just assumes the rules apply from older platforms.

Saw these rules with X99.

But do they really still hold true does anyone know?


----------



## Kimir

why wouldn't it?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Is anyone really sure all those old rules still apply with Z370?
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh, so you mean it no longer applies? If so, then apologies in advance!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I'm asking if they do or not.
> 
> Different platform, and it seems everyone just assumes the rules apply from older platforms.
> 
> Saw these rules with X99.
> 
> But do they really still hold true does anyone know with Z370 etc.?
> 
> Once again the formatting is all messed up and I don't know how to fix it, I shouldn't be quoting myself in new part.
Click to expand...


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> why wouldn't it?


New platform with Z370? New rules maybe?

I'm saying I don't know, it was a question.


----------



## NeoandGeo

I would like to know too. The configuration I was talking about was something from Skylake so I assumed it was still the same. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> I would like to know too. The configuration I was talking about was something from Skylake so I assumed it was still the same. Can anyone confirm?


Skylake is a carryover from X99, so, yeah, likely is the same, but I'm not 100% sure.


----------



## Kimir

To me it's defined by DDR4 spec, not platform specific.

And tFAW mean "Four-bank ACTIVATE window".


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Try changing Four Activate Window (tFAW) to 24 or slightly above 24
> As min tFAW is 4X tRRD_S


No dice











I also tried leaving all secondary timings on auto but it looks like it made things worse.


----------



## Silent Scone

DDR4 timing rules and more specifically the minimal spacing requirements are static and apply to all platforms


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> DDR4 timing rules and more specifically the minimal spacing requirements are static and apply to all platforms


^^^^^^







the rules worked for me on X299 DDR4 quad channel.


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> No dice


I'm not sure how low tWTR_L & tWTR_S can go, but yours definitely look wayyy tight


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> I'm not sure how low tWTR_L & tWTR_S can go, but yours definitely look wayyy tight


For some reason the Asrock app isn't properly showing the right timings. In the bios, I set them to 10 and 6.
I can't see these timings in Mem Tweakit though.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> I'm not sure how low tWTR_L & tWTR_S can go, but yours definitely look wayyy tight


I always found meddling with the _Ls dangerous, but maybe it's just me.


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> I always found meddling with the _Ls dangerous, but maybe it's just me.


Mine's on auto for both, so i did not know this - thanks


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *misoonigiri*
> 
> Mine's on auto for both, so i did not know this - thanks


Don't take it as gospel, just my specific experience - I could be wrong and maybe others with more experience can provide more info.


----------



## misoonigiri

I understand, thanks again for sharing


----------



## japau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> For some reason the Asrock app isn't properly showing the right timings. In the bios, I set them to 10 and 6.
> I can't see these timings in Mem Tweakit though.


You can't change only tWTR_L / S you have to allso adjust tWRRD_sg / dg

try tWRRD_sg 32 and tWRRD_dg 28 , see if you get those secondaries stick.


----------



## NeoandGeo

I definitely wouldn't recommend going too crazy with RTL/IOL beyond finding out what your lowest RTL Initial Value is and seeing if you can raise CH Latency values a bit above default.


----------



## Exalanoto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Yes you can have gains running a higher frequency or tighter timings. I have a 3600 MHz 16-16-16-36 CR2 kit running at 4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 CR1. See the read write scores below.


yeah, those are definitly some better performances. I will let my system be like it is for a week or two, and see if i can rly trust the way it is running right now.


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

guys
does someone has example of 8 b-die sticks overclocking on x299 ?
i am failing even with 3800 15-15-15-38 2T


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> guys
> does someone has example of 8 b-die sticks overclocking on x299 ?
> i am failing even with 3800 15-15-15-38 2T


Most Z platforms don't even run that fast. If you stick with CL 15, all you can do is lessen the speed. Search the thread for examples...


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> Most Z platforms don't even run that fast. If you stick with CL 15, all you can do is lessen the speed. Search the thread for examples...


Also 8 dimms...

3600CL15 is fast.... must less 3800CL15... You're likely looking at a >> 1.4v OC with a lot of tweaking to reach that.

Take whatever marked XMP ratio you find on your dimms (CLOCK / CL) and than apply that to 3800 if that's where you want to start to get your baseline CL... Depending on which kit you use to start, you will likely come up with a divisor of 210-230 so with 3800 you are looking CL17->CL18 as a baseline. This is just a rough ball-park, but its far closer than 15...

Contrary to frequent assertions that "all that matters is b-die" - this is NOT sufficient to determine the suitable range of CLOCK and CL on a given DIMM. Their markings are a decent hint on the quality of "b-die" you have in front of you. No guarantee that a really good set wasn't marked down, but even less promise that a high CL kit is capable of more than it promised.

A kit marked 3200C14 stands a MUCH better chance of reaching 3600CL15 than a kit marked 3400C16.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *freaky35*
> 
> Hello all!,
> 
> What max 24/7 voltage is save for hynix SK chips.
> I have seen that it can take(absolute max!) 1.5v?
> 
> is above 1.4 to 1.45save or?
> 
> 
> 
> Same as all other DDR4 IC, keep things under 1.5v
Click to expand...

I'm confused, Scone.

Is having higher RTLs or lower RTLs better for performance?


----------



## misoonigiri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kimir*
> 
> To me it's defined by DDR4 spec, not platform specific.
> 
> And tFAW mean "Four-bank ACTIVATE window".


Four-bank, ahh got it thanks for pointing out


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

_ducegt cekim_ my kits are 3200 cl14
i aam at 1.54 vdimm now and 15-15-14
it is possible to stabilize 3800 14-14-14 but seems like about 1.585 - 1.6 vdimm needed


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> _ducegt cekim_ my kits are 3200 cl14
> i aam at 1.54 vdimm now and 15-15-14
> it is possible to stabilize 3800 14-14-14 but seems like about 1.585 - 1.6 vdimm needed


Alrighty then... be careful...


----------



## glnn_23

Thought I'd try out Ram test today. Ended up using same voltages as required to pass HCI memtest.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> Thought I'd try out Ram test today. Ended up using same voltages as required to pass HCI memtest.


Yeah, in terms of stringency it's on par. It can be quicker at finding some errors if you know what to look for, though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> I'm confused, Scone.
> 
> Is having higher RTLs or lower RTLs better for performance?


Are you replying to the right post? If you know the relationship with CAS values, then that should answer your question. But bringing them down is better for performance, yes. Assuming the memory is stable.


----------



## Menthol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> Thought I'd try out Ram test today. Ended up using same voltages as required to pass HCI memtest.


Nice command rate reported is that better than 1T


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Nice command rate reported is that better than 1T


Maybe it's asking him if he wants tea for a job well done.


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> _ducegt cekim_ my kits are 3200 cl14
> i aam at 1.54 vdimm now and 15-15-14
> it is possible to stabilize 3800 14-14-14 but seems like about 1.585 - 1.6 vdimm needed


You said you couldn't stabilize 3800 Cl15 in your last post. Seems as in you tested it? And if so, show a screenshot. Or, are you only guessing?


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> Thought I'd try out Ram test today. Ended up using same voltages as required to pass HCI memtest.


what HCI memtest launcher do you use ?


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducegt*
> 
> You said you couldn't stabilize 3800 Cl15 in your last post. Seems as in you tested it? And if so, show a screenshot. Or, are you only guessing?


i have to raise voltages for testing and start from the beginning. after tests i will try to lower them
vdimm 1.54
vccio 1.34
vcsa 1.34
it is stable at 3800 14-14-14-28 2T vith 1.6 vdimm but its a bit hot and as i am interesting in 24/7 result only so i like something near 1.5 vdimm. and i am lazy to make this screenshot
i find stable 3800 15-15-14-28-2t at 1.51 vdimm and testing secondary timings now


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> what HCI memtest launcher do you use ?


If you're referring to the launcher in his screen shot, it's not actually HCI Memtest. It's a new program called "Ram Test." You can find more info in the following thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1644432/great-new-memory-stability-tester-ram-test/0_30#post_26511421


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> If you're referring to the launcher in his screen shot, it's not actually HCI Memtest. It's a new program called "Ram Test." You can find more info in the following thread:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1644432/great-new-memory-stability-tester-ram-test/0_30#post_26511421


its very fast
and it detects errors after 400% HCI stable in 2 minutes.. wat a hell


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> its very fast
> and it detects errors after 400% HCI stable in 2 minutes.. wat a hell


Wait, what? So your saying it takes hci memtest 400% coverage to find an error that ram test can find in 2 minutes?!


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Wait, what? So your saying it takes hci memtest 400% coverage to find an error that ram test can find in 2 minutes?!


i stop hci memtest after 400% as i think it was stable
but yes this ram test find error in 2 minutes.. mb hci can find this error too but seems like it need way more time


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> i stop hci memtest after 400% as i think it was stable
> but yes this ram test find error in 2 minutes.. mb hci can find this error too but seems like it need way more time


and GSAT?

@Silent Scone - hey bro, you accepting Ram Test as valid?


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> and GSAT?


you suggesting to install linux, then install gsat. for memory testing?!
but i am not maniac








ram test works great
and it moved me far back by timings for stability. hmm


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Guys can you help me to tight subtimings please
i tested primary and secondary timings they are 100% stable
i want to push more if it is possible
voltages are not optimized except vcore. they are high for testing stability
7980xe 5000mhz 1.39vcore 3400mhz mesh 1.25vmesh +0.350uncore offset
8x8gb b-die 3800mhz 1.535vdimm 1.45vccio 1.39vcsa
any advices?


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoandGeo*
> 
> I always thought that CH Latency Offset moreso affected IOL values, and that higher was better, something changed? Mine defaults to 21 with 4x8GB, used to have to set this manually to 21 with 4-Dimms filled else it would set itself to 14 and give worse RTL values.


Lowering CHA IO_Latency_offset lowers RTLs etc. and according to Scone, lower is better for performance

At 16 I gain performance over 21, and my RTLs are lower.









I be back, going to take BIOS screens etc.

Here's my CHA IO_Latency_offset at 15 top two pictures, at 21 lower two pictures.







And notice the lower latency in AIDA with 15. Over a full point lower. And these results are consistent with multiple runs.


----------



## NeoandGeo

Interesting.







I'll give lower values a try and see what results I get when I get back to my computer.


----------



## djgar

In RAM Test, what's a good % coverage and memory for 24/7 stability with 32GB?


----------



## CptKuolio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> In RAM Test, what's a good % coverage and memory for 24/7 stability with 32GB?


I am happy with 2000%, some go for 5000% or more

There is cache testing mode coming to next update of RAM-test and possibly more optimisation. Its currently about 15x faster then HCI-memtest, my first version of it was maybe 5x Hci speed so it has been getting better with leaps.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptKuolio*
> 
> I am happy with 2000%, some go for 5000% or more
> 
> There is cache testing mode coming to next update of RAM-test and possibly more optimisation. Its currently about 15x faster then HCI-memtest, my first version of it was maybe 5x Hci speed so it has been getting better with leaps.


By 15x faster do you mean in finding errors or just the coverage?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> and GSAT?
> 
> @Silent Scone - hey bro, you accepting Ram Test as valid?


Not yet, but plan on adding it to the OP at some point this week.


----------



## CptKuolio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> By 15x faster do you mean in finding errors or just the coverage?


Both, think of it as HCI memtest w/o much emphasis on cache (though coming on next update, "soon") running 15x faster. It makes your workflow 15x faster If HCI is your main stability tester for memory OC. 2000% run of RAM Test is about 30mins or under. It is about the same as running HCI for overnight.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> you suggesting to install linux, then install gsat. for memory testing?!
> but i am not maniac
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ram test works great
> and it moved me far back by timings for stability. hmm


no, just use Windows Bash.

And for example: http://www.overclock.net/t/1640168/asus-z370-motherboard-series-official-support-thread/800_20#post_26530494

Depending on the error type, GSAT can be faster at revealing the instability.


----------



## Rezal

I found 2000% to not be enough. But if it made 5000%, but also did 10000%. I think the highest error was around 3800% for me. So I usually do 5000%.


----------



## CptKuolio

Regarding RAM Test; https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/techpowerups-memtest-64-is-it-better-than-hci-memtest-for-determining-stability.2532209/#post-39244531


----------



## Rezal

Last time I ran Memtest86 it passed with no errors and I got a BSOD loading Windows afterwards...


----------



## CptKuolio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Last time I ran Memtest86 it passed with no errors and I got a BSOD loading Windows afterwards...


Dunno how this relates to discussion about RAM Test, and a link to the Stilt's recommendatation of it.


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptKuolio*
> 
> Dunno how this relates to discussion about RAM Test, and a link to the Stilt's recommendatation of it.


Think it relates to memtest86 not working to find stability.


----------



## djgar

It does have comments about RAM Test.


----------



## KedarWolf

Update - Lowered RTLs 4x8GB 4133MHZ Final Memory Settings.

KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.34V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---HCI MemTest 1600%

Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


----------



## Rezal

How do you manage to get lower RTLs going? For me it seems there is one setting that works and everything else just won't post.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> How do you manage to get lower RTLs going? For me it seems there is one setting that works and everything else just won't post.


That's because the boards are pretty good at doing this for you. The DIMM voltage needed can often be too excessive and the system still likely won't be entirely stable.


----------



## Rezal

Makes sense I guess. I could change IO-L using a different IO-L offset, but that does not seem to affect performance at all.


----------



## Rezal

That feeling when you pass 7000% RAM test, 45 minutes of Prime95 and then crash with a memory related error after 5 minutes of gaming :/


----------



## NeoandGeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> That feeling when you pass 7000% RAM test, 45 minutes of Prime95 and then crash with a memory related error after 5 minutes of gaming :/


Remember, girls from 7/11 stay up all night, 24 hours a day. Firmware updates providing nothing but stability all week.


----------



## Mustanaamio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> That feeling when you pass 7000% RAM test, 45 minutes of Prime95 and then crash with a memory related error after 5 minutes of gaming :/


What about GSAT or HCI MemTest


----------



## Rezal

I don't use GSAT, HCI has the same issue. I suspect the instability is from the IMC and not the memory itself. Both RAM Test and HCI are not reliable picking it up. Prime95 does better, but is still unreliable or might just be a very different load from gaming.

Edit: Or, it might be some 3rd party plugin for the game just screwing up with memory and IMC being solid....


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> I don't use GSAT, HCI has the same issue. I suspect the instability is from the IMC and not the memory itself. Both RAM Test and HCI are not reliable picking it up. Prime95 does better, but is still unreliable or might just be a very different load from gaming.
> 
> Edit: Or, it might be some 3rd party plugin for the game just screwing up with memory and IMC being solid....


7000% ram test is not a lot. I passed 2.5 hours of ram test which is over 10000% and failed gsat within 45mins. Can you complete two hours of gsat and 2000% hci memtest?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> I don't use GSAT, HCI has the same issue. I suspect the instability is from the IMC and not the memory itself. Both RAM Test and HCI are not reliable picking it up. Prime95 does better, but is still unreliable or might just be a very different load from gaming.
> 
> Edit: Or, it might be some 3rd party plugin for the game just screwing up with memory and IMC being solid....


it is a pretty reasonable assumption that game code is not the most "hygenic" when it comes to ram use. If the system is passing HCI and p95 (which is not a good game-stability test btw) a true ram-related bsod while gaming may actually be pagefile related.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> I don't use GSAT, HCI has the same issue. I suspect the instability is from the IMC and not the memory itself. Both RAM Test and HCI are not reliable picking it up. Prime95 does better, but is still unreliable or might just be a very different load from gaming.
> 
> Edit: Or, it might be some 3rd party plugin for the game just screwing up with memory and IMC being solid....


It could be thermally induced as well.
You check the peak CPU temperature (i.e stable state) with Prime95 first and then reducing the cooling until the same temperatures can be achieved using Ram Test or HCI as well.
If Ram Test or HCI still won't pick up any errors, most likely the issue is the CPU itself (i.e unstable).


----------



## Rezal

Is it fine to run GSAT from the Linux Subsystem for Windows? It seems to work...
It is not a BSOD by the way, the game crashes with an error report referring to unreadable memory.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Is it fine to run GSAT from the Linux Subsystem for Windows? It seems to work...
> It is not a BSOD by the way, the game crashes with an error report referring to unreadable memory.


Yes it is fine and many prefer to do it this way.


----------



## l Nuke l

Dunno if anyone elses cpu is the same way but my cpu wont allow me to run cache any higher than 4600mhz when running my ram at 4266mhz cl17. I can pass hci memtest 2000% with ram @4266mhzcl17 with stock core/cache clocks and i can pass realbench for 8 hours with core/cache @ 5.2/4.8 but if i run hci memtest with the ram, core and cache OC it picks up an error. I know its the cache cuz as soon as i pull the cache down or set it to auto(4.4) hci is error free. Is there any voltages that can help me get my cache higher besides vcore? Have tried vcore as high as 1.44v and still cant get cache over 4600mhz. As of right now the best i can do is 5.2core 4.6cache and ram at 4266cl17. Can raising SA/IO help with cache?


----------



## Rezal

IO and SA are worth a try.


----------



## Jpmboy

what setting is PLL bandwidth at?

PLL bandwidth = 3 give 1.0V.. Auto will vary with frequency, but run a set value once booted.
- ninja'd


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what setting is PLL bandwidth at?


3, which brings cpu pll oc voltage up to 1.0v i believe from 0.6v. Also increased cpu standby voltage a bit dunno if that helps tho.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> 3, which brings cpu pll oc voltage up to 1.0v i believe from 0.6v. Also increased cpu standby voltage a bit dunno if that helps tho.


try standby at 1.2V if not up there already - I've had mine at 1.2 since launch, it's not a problem.









IDK - that cache issue seems to hit a few owners .. and then disappear. Strange. I have not had that problem occur (yet







)


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> try standby at 1.2V - I've had mine at 1.2 since launch, it's not a problem.


thats what its on







. Just came across this post from raja gill from asus. "From a frequency perspective, good CPU samples are capable of keeping Uncore frequency within 300MHz of the CPU core frequency when the processor is overclocked to the limits using air and water cooling. However, there may be a trade-off for the Uncore versus memory frequency on some CPU samples. If pushing memory frequency beyond DDR4-3800, it may be difficult to obtain stability with a Uncore frequency over 4.7GHz when the CPU cores are overclocked past 5GHz." Maybe my sample just cant do anymore.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> thats what its on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Just came across this post from raja gill from asus. "From a frequency perspective, good CPU samples are capable of keeping Uncore frequency within 300MHz of the CPU core frequency when the processor is overclocked to the limits using air and water cooling. However, there may be a trade-off for the Uncore versus memory frequency on some CPU samples. If pushing memory frequency beyond DDR4-3800, it may be difficult to obtain stability with a Uncore frequency over 4.7GHz when the CPU cores are overclocked past 5GHz." Maybe my sample just cant do anymore.


yeah,we all play the silicon lottery with these things. Truth is, that difference in cache is not going to be noticeable (measurable - yes, real world - no)


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah,we all play the silicon lottery with these things. Truth is, that difference in cache is not going to be noticeable (measurable - yes, real world - no)


Yeah i know.. but you know how it is.. i want moar! lol! Heres some screenshots of settings in bios. Anything you would change? Disabling ringdownbin is not necessary when running high performance mode in windows with manual vcore right? Also cache is on auto right now for testing purposes.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Rezal

My game doesn't even scale at all with memory or cache, only cores. Still I want that 4266 going as fast as possible


----------



## ESRCJ

Has anyone been able to achieve 4000MHz with the Rampage VI Extreme with 1000% or greater in HCI? I have had zero luck and whenever I do find something that hits 1000% in HCI, the next day it can't even get past 50% without errors. I'm just curious because all of the results I've seen on here with 4000MHz were with other motherboards, including the Apex.

Additionally, when is it a good idea to do a fresh install of Windows due to excessive BSODs and potential corruption? I've gone through at least 30 BSODs during my overclocking stability tests since I've had this board (there has been so much trial and error with per core overclocking and memory overclocking).


----------



## Rezal

I don't reinstall Windows unless I know it is broken. Last time I broke Windows with OC was overclocking a 3770 non-K via base clock, S-ATA didn't like going above 107...

GSAT's been running a couple minutes now, let's hope it keeps going for two more hours.


----------



## japau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Dunno if anyone elses cpu is the same way but my cpu wont allow me to run cache any higher than 4600mhz when running my ram at 4266mhz cl17. I can pass hci memtest 2000% with ram @4266mhzcl17 with stock core/cache clocks and i can pass realbench for 8 hours with core/cache @ 5.2/4.8 but if i run hci memtest with the ram, core and cache OC it picks up an error. I know its the cache cuz as soon as i pull the cache down or set it to auto(4.4) hci is error free. Is there any voltages that can help me get my cache higher besides vcore? Have tried vcore as high as 1.44v and still cant get cache over 4600mhz. As of right now the best i can do is 5.2core 4.6cache and ram at 4266cl17. Can raising SA/IO help with cache?


My CPU is the same. It doesn't like Cache over 4600 without higher VCore than needed for Cores. So 4600 it is for me. Did some Cinebench R15 with higher voltages 53 core / 48 cache but over that it became unstable.


----------



## Rezal

GSAT found this:

Code:



Code:


Log: CrcWarmCopyPage CRC mismatch ffffffff01fffffdff011017fffff00801017fff290080 != ffffffff01ffffffff011017fffff00801017fffff0080, but no miscompares found. Retrying with fresh data.
Report Error: miscompare : DIMM Unknown : 1 : 4044s
Hardware Error: miscompare on CPU 9(0x200) at 0x7f28cbe3aca8(0x0:DIMM Unknown): read:0xfffdffffffffffff, reread:0xfffdffffffffffff expected:0xffffffffffffffff

Is that Cache, Memory or IMC or no way to tell?


----------



## ESRCJ

I just realized memory write speed is very low for me:



This has actually been the case for every AIDA64 benchmark I've run. It didn't hit me until I noticed everyone else's is significantly higher. Any idea what could be driving it so low? It's significantly lower than my read and copy speeds. The OC from the above AIDA64 benchmark is stable and I don't have any timings set abnormally high.


----------



## Rezal

You probably have a bad tWRWR subtiming that is too high.

Is there a way to get a later version of stressapptest going? Only using 1.0.6-2 that can be downloaded with Ubuntu currently.


----------



## ESRCJ

Here are my timings along with a fresh run of AIDA:



Does anything look off with any of those timings? I will note that for the tertiary timings, I just manually set them to what XMP gave me. That extremely low write speed has me worried.

I'm also not sure if this is normal, but my motherboard applies different vdimm to different channels. I manually set both to 1.4V, but I get different voltages for channels AB and CD.



I'm starting to wonder if my motherboard is defective. Looking at others' memory write results, everyone seems to be getting 95K or more and even with worse timings. Either that, or maybe my memory kit is defective? I understand I'm overclocking and technically it isn't defective if it's running fine at its rated speeds, but this is unusual behavior. I can get my kit replaced since I'm still within 30 days of purchase.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> GSAT found this:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Log: CrcWarmCopyPage CRC mismatch ffffffff01fffffdff011017fffff00801017fff290080 != ffffffff01ffffffff011017fffff00801017fffff0080, but no miscompares found. Retrying with fresh data.
> Report Error: miscompare : DIMM Unknown : 1 : 4044s
> Hardware Error: miscompare on CPU 9(0x200) at 0x7f28cbe3aca8(0x0:DIMM Unknown): read:0xfffdffffffffffff, reread:0xfffdffffffffffff expected:0xffffffffffffffff
> 
> Is that Cache, Memory or IMC or no way to tell?


set cache and core clocks to defaults and test.


----------



## Rezal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> Here are my timings along with a fresh run of AIDA:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anything look off with any of those timings? I will note that for the tertiary timings, I just manually set them to what XMP gave me. That extremely low write speed has me worried.


Can you get a screenshot with Asrock Timing Configurator? The names in memtweakit are weird.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> set cache and core clocks to defaults and test.


Thanks. I already started a new run with higher VDIMM.If it fails again I will take a look at core and cache OC. Is the GSAT that you can download for Ubuntu reliable or is there a better, more recert version?


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Can you get a screenshot with Asrock Timing Configurator? The names in memtweakit are weird.


I've included memtweakit next to timing configurator for comparison if needed. I lowered TCWL to 12 from 14 to see if that made much of a different and it did not.



They look to be reporting different tertiary timings. For example, memtweakit has a tCCDL of 4, whereas timing config has 8. Perhaps timing config is not very accurate with my mobo. The tertiaries in memtweakit are exactly the same as what I see in the BIOS.


----------



## Rezal

Might be different nomeclature on this platform. Can't tell what is wrong... Have you compared your tertieries to other users?


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Might be different nomeclature on this platform. Can't tell what is wrong... Have you compared your tertieries to other users?


I've seen others with similar tertiaries with much better write speeds. I've also seen much higher tertiary timings, yet much higher write speeds. If it's a hardware issue, then I have no idea how to diagnose it since my system runs just fine everywhere else.


----------



## l Nuke l

New Entry
l Nuke l--8700K @ 5.2ghz-core, 4.8ghz-cache, ram-4266mhz cl17-18-18-38-1t, 1.46VDimm, 1.2250v VCCIO, 1.2625v VSA, 2hours of GSAT


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> Here are my timings along with a fresh run of AIDA:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anything look off with any of those timings? I will note that for the tertiary timings, I just manually set them to what XMP gave me. That extremely low write speed has me worried.
> 
> I'm also not sure if this is normal, *but my motherboard applies different vdimm to different channels. I manually set both to 1.4V, but I get different voltages for channels AB and CD.
> *
> 
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if my motherboard is defective. Looking at others' memory write results, everyone seems to be getting 95K or more and even with worse timings. Either that, or maybe my memory kit is defective? I understand I'm overclocking and technically it isn't defective if it's running fine at its rated speeds, but this is unusual behavior. I can get my kit replaced since I'm still within 30 days of purchase.


You r board is not defective. those are the same values. a 16mV difference is the "resolution" of the SIO report. the actual is between 1.392 and 1.408V, like you set in bios. And Yes, it is normal for there to be some difference between channels. Trace lengths and impedance will be different.
Not all CPU IMCs can run 4000 on an 8 slot board. Using timings from 4 slot board settings is not gonna get it there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> New Entry
> l Nuke l--8700K @ 5.2ghz-core, 4.8ghz-cache, ram-4266mhz cl17-18-18-38-1t, 1.46VDimm, 1.2250v VCCIO, 1.2625v VSA, 2hours of GSAT


very nice!


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> You r board is not defective. those are the same values. a 16mV difference is the "resolution" of the SIO report. the actual is between 1.392 and 1.408V, like you set. And Yes, it is normal for there to be some difference between channels. Trace lengths and impedance will be different.
> Not all CPU IMCs can run 4000 on an 8 slot board.
> very nice!


Thanks bro! I had some good help!


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> You r board is not defective. those are the same values. a 16mV difference is the "resolution" of the SIO report. the actual is between 1.392 and 1.408V, like you set. And Yes, it is normal for there to be some difference between channels. Trace lengths and impedance will be different.
> Not all CPU IMCs can run 4000 on an 8 slot board.


Thanks for the reassurance. Do you have any thoughts as to what might explain my low memory write? Everything else seems to be fine on AIDA.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> Thanks for the reassurance. Do you have any thoughts as to what might explain my low memory write? Everything else seems to be fine on AIDA.


it may just be the memory divider you chose to use. Will the system post at 3866 instead of 3800? Loosen timings one notch if necessary, add voltage too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Thanks bro! I had some good help!


Lol - ram can be the proverbial rabbit-hole... certainly can test one's patience!


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Lol - ram can be the proverbial rabbit-hole... certainly can test one's patience!


Dude I know. Been at it for weeks. It's all worth it tho when everything starts coming together, and this platform is stupid fast, i love it. So much fun.


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> it may just be the memory divider you chose to use. Will the system post at 3866 instead of 3800? Loosen timings one notch if necessary, add voltage too.


I haven't tried 3866. It posts and is almost stable at 4000MHz. The 3800 profile I have is stable.

I decided to put my old Corsair Vengeance LED 3200 CL16 32GB kit in my system to see if perhaps my Trident Z kit is underperforming. It turns out it definitely is. Here is what I found.

This is the Trident Z RGB 3600 kit running with factory default BIOS:



Here is the Corsair kit with factory default BIOS:



The Corsair kit scores higher using the same settings.

Here are the XMP comparisons.

Trident Z RGB 3600:



Corsair 3200:



Corsair wins in write speed.

I also decided to manually tune the Corsair kit to 16-16-16-36 1T along with the same secondaries as my Trident Z 3800 profile. Despite being 600MHz slower, it wins in write speed.



Here is the Trident Z at 3800 with the same timings:



So something is up with my Trident Z RGB kit. It should be able to crush that Corsair kit, but it doesn't.


----------



## Rezal

Are the tertiary timings all the same for Corsair and GSkill?


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rezal*
> 
> Are the tertiary timings all the same for Corsair and GSkill?


For the last 2 comparisons, yes. They are just the XMP tertiaries and they are the same for both memory kits (manually put in for the manual OCs). The first comparison is just the stock BIOS settings, so I would imagine they are the same there too.


----------



## KedarWolf

Update - Lowered RTLs 4x8GB 4133MHZ Previous HCI MemTest Entry Was Not GSAT Stable, Tweaked Timings.

KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.34V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---stressapptest one hour.

Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> I haven't tried 3866. It posts and is almost stable at 4000MHz. The 3800 profile I have is stable.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to put my old Corsair Vengeance LED 3200 CL16 32GB kit in my system to see if perhaps my Trident Z kit is underperforming. It turns out it definitely is. Here is what I found.
> 
> This is the Trident Z RGB 3600 kit running with factory default BIOS:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the Corsair kit with factory default BIOS:
> 
> 
> 
> The Corsair kit scores higher using the same settings.
> 
> Here are the XMP comparisons.
> 
> Trident Z RGB 3600:
> 
> 
> 
> Corsair 3200:
> 
> 
> 
> Corsair wins in write speed.
> 
> I also decided to manually tune the Corsair kit to 16-16-16-36 1T along with the same secondaries as my Trident Z 3800 profile. Despite being 600MHz slower, it wins in write speed.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the Trident Z at 3800 with the same timings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So something is up with my Trident Z RGB kit.* It should be able to crush that Corsair kit, but it doesn't.


even at SPD, each kit's programming will be different. G.Skill, has a lifetime warranty, I'd RMA the tridents. Could be a bad stick (trace or weak IC) in there.
But... do try the 3866 memory setting with your 3800 timings, it is a different memory divider than 3800 or 4000.


----------



## ThrashZone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> Has anyone been able to achieve 4000MHz with the Rampage VI Extreme with 1000% or greater in HCI? I have had zero luck and whenever I do find something that hits 1000% in HCI, the next day it can't even get past 50% without errors. I'm just curious because all of the results I've seen on here with 4000MHz were with other motherboards, including the Apex.
> 
> *Additionally, when is it a good idea to do a fresh install of Windows due to excessive BSODs and potential corruption*? I've gone through at least 30 BSODs during my overclocking stability tests since I've had this board (there has been so much trial and error with per core overclocking and memory overclocking).


Hi,
Better to restore a system image than clean installing.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> Has anyone been able to achieve 4000MHz with the Rampage VI Extreme with 1000% or greater in HCI? I have had zero luck and whenever I do find something that hits 1000% in HCI, the next day it can't even get past 50% without errors. I'm just curious because all of the results I've seen on here with 4000MHz were with other motherboards, including the Apex.
> 
> Additionally, when is it a good idea to do a fresh install of Windows due to excessive BSODs and potential corruption? I've gone through at least 30 BSODs during my overclocking stability tests since I've had this board (there has been so much trial and error with per core overclocking and memory overclocking).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThrashZone*
> 
> Hi,
> Better to restore a system image than clean installing.


Sounds like a good time to refresh your machine. I perfer a clean install with iOS using USB flash drive. I always format the drives as well. I also update the bios, drivers and utilities. Remember to save your oc profiles to a USB drive or they will be gone when updating bios.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Sounds like a good time to refresh your machine. I perfer a clean install with iOS using USB flash drive. I always format the drives as well. I also update the bios, drivers and utilities. Remember to save your oc profiles to a USB drive or they will be gone when updating bios.


At least with Asus BIOS profiles saved with the BIOS tool only work with the same BIOS version, unless you mean save screenshots.


----------



## Silent Scone

Ramtest is now valid for table entry. As per the OP, please make sure to run the test for at least 1 hour if wanting to submit valid results.

Will update the tables over the next day or two


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> even at SPD, each kit's programming will be different. G.Skill, has a lifetime warranty, I'd RMA the tridents. Could be a bad stick (trace or weak IC) in there.
> But... do try the 3866 memory setting with your 3800 timings, it is a different memory divider than 3800 or 4000.


there is no 3866 multipler for x299
3600 3733 3800 4000 4133


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> At least with Asus BIOS profiles saved with the BIOS tool only work with the same BIOS version, unless you mean save screenshots.


Yes I save a text file of my 24/7 oc. The bench oc's I can configure from the 24/7.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Yes I save a text file of my 24/7 oc. The bench oc's I can configure from the 24/7.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> there is no 3866 multipler for x299
> 3600 3733 3800 4000 4133


still running 5.0/3.4 24/7 365 on that 7980xe?
and yes, my bad, too many platforms here. there is no 3866 without a bclk bump on x299.


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> still running 5.0/3.4 24/7 365 on that 7980xe?


yep
still with fixed 1.39 vcore. need some time for vcore offset testing. just finished with memory oc
and i have to change asus apex cause of its high vrm temp to asrock taichi xe and make vrm waterblock for it too
thanks for fujipoly advice

















now trying to sell apex with vrm waterblock


----------



## Menthol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Update - Lowered RTLs 4x8GB 4133MHZ Previous HCI MemTest Entry Was Not GSAT Stable, Tweaked Timings.
> 
> KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.34V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---stressapptest one hour.
> 
> Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK


KedarWolf, That is quite amazing to me, I have tried for a couple days and cannot get 4 sticks to run anywhere near what you can on my Hero Wifi.
Kudo's to you bro


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> even at SPD, each kit's programming will be different. G.Skill, has a lifetime warranty, I'd RMA the tridents. Could be a bad stick (trace or weak IC) in there.
> But... do try the 3866 memory setting with your 3800 timings, it is a different memory divider than 3800 or 4000.


I just refunded the Trident Z. I'll probably get the same kit, but maybe non RGB since I've heard the RGBs don't OC as well.

One thing I have noticed is that after OCing my Corsair kit a little more, I seem to be stuck at 76k-78k MB/s write. My Trident Z kit would never pass 76k no matter the OC. I wonder if something is creating a ceiling on my write speeds since I've never seen them past 80k.

I Google searched the issue and I couldn't find anything concrete. Does anyone know what could potentially slow down memory write speeds, but not hurt anything else? Maybe a poor IMC? I have a 7920x for reference, which has had no issues.

I've tried multiple BIOS and the issue is the same.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Update - Lowered RTLs 4x8GB 4133MHZ Previous HCI MemTest Entry Was Not GSAT Stable, Tweaked Timings.
> 
> KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.34V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---stressapptest one hour.
> 
> Samsung b-die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KedarWolf, That is quite amazing to me, I have tried for a couple days and cannot get 4 sticks to run anywhere near what you can on my Hero Wifi.
> Kudo's to you bro
Click to expand...

Thanks bro,

I tweaked it a bit getting it Ram Test stable but I just finished 5000%.

Had to loosen fourth timings some.

You want BIOS screenshots and a BIOS .txt file with all the settings I use?


----------



## Menthol

KedarWolf,
Thanks, If it's what you have previously posted, I tried them, I am not even embarrassed about plagiarizing you're work







it was a no go, I tweaked tell my fingers bleed, I was hoping to run a 32GB kit at higher speed/tighter timings but I'm satisfied with my 2X8 4133 RGB kit and minor timing tweaks. this is my daily driver, how fast does a system need to be to watch Netflix









I thought I was getting a little bit better with memory, turns out Raja and his Apex boards and memory presets, all 3 gen's had me fooled into thinking I was getting better, it's his boards and presets that are that good, I'm still just a mere mortal with no special memory powers after all


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> KedarWolf,
> Thanks, If it's what you have previously posted, I tried them, I am not even embarrassed about plagiarizing you're work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it was a no go, I tweaked tell my fingers bleed, I was hoping to run a 32GB kit at higher speed/tighter timings but I'm satisfied with my 2X8 4133 RGB kit and minor timing tweaks. this is my daily driver, how fast does a system need to be to watch Netflix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I was getting a little bit better with memory, turns out Raja and his Apex boards and memory presets, all 3 gen's had me fooled into thinking I was getting better, it's his boards and presets that are that good, I'm still just a mere mortal with no special memory powers after all


Okay, Menthol.

Peace.


----------



## KedarWolf

Update

KedarWolf--i7 8700K Not Delidded VCore---1.34V (@4.9/[email protected] (BIOS)---VCCIO 1.2125v (BIOS)---SA 1.25 (BIOS)---Mem Test 5000%.

Samsung B-Die CL14 3200MHZ G.SKILL Ripjaws 5 F4-3200C14Q-32GVK



Forgot to switch tabs in CPU-Z



4133MHZ_setting.txt 74k .txt file


BIOS screenshots below.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 --- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 16Gb 4266C19 @ 4400 Mhz -C19-21-21-48- 1T --- 1.47vdimm --- 1.25v vsa ---- 1.22v vccio --- hci memtest 600%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA

Timings probably not the best I guess.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 --- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 16Gb 4266C19 @ 4400 Mhz -C19-21-21-48- 1T --- 1.47vdimm --- 1.25v vsa ---- 1.22v vccio --- hci memtest 600%
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA
> 
> Timings probably not the best I guess.


impressively low vsa and vccio. when I set them that low on this configuration 4266 to 4400, i get intermittent hang ups during post - all related to training.


----------



## eminded1

I got my gskill kit (F4-3000C15D-16GTZ) 3000mhz stock OC to 3800 on stock voltage, not a bad oc , prime, occt, ibt, hci Real Bench stable for couple hrs

Here are the settings
DIMM Voltage - 1.35
CPU SA - 1.2
CPU VCCIO - 1.17
Timings @ 3800 - 17 18 18 38 @ 2t

I'm lookings maybe to get these to 4000, I got a great deal on the ram just under 150 on amazon. I am thinking bout that kit the 2x16GB Corsair 4000MHZ but ill save that for later.

I want to get higher, temps of the dims never get above 45C I have the fan on them but that is a very high OC for stock 3000 MHZ, I tried booting at 4000, no post, I just loosen timings still no go and uping the volts it wont boot at 4000, but I think a 800MHZ OC is pretty impressive for the kit. its fully stable I ran a lot of tests on it . Let me know what youthink


----------



## djgar

Scone, at this rate you're going to have to hire a secretaryan administrative assistant to keep up!


----------



## lilchronic

Just ordered a 4500Mhz 19-19-19-39 kit.







Currently running a 3600Mhz cl16 kit @ 4200Mhz 17-17-17-38-1T with 1.425v 1.15vio 1.175vsa. 4266Mhz 17-17-17-38-2T @ 1.425v but 1T needs 1.485v and it's not stable. I can also get 4400Mhz 19-19-19-39-2T @ 1.5v but not stable and wont always boot no matter what vsa and vio are at.
hopefully it's not my cpu that can't handle 1T, should have the kit on thur/friday.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Just ordered a 4500Mhz 19-19-19-39 kit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently running a 3600Mhz cl16 kit @ 4200Mhz 17-17-17-38-1T with 1.425v 1.15vio 1.175vsa. 4266Mhz 17-17-17-38-2T @ 1.425v but 1T needs 1.485v and it's not stable. I can also get 4400Mhz 19-19-19-39-2T @ 1.5v but not stable and wont always boot no matter what vsa and vio are at.
> hopefully it's not my cpu that can't handle 1T, should have the kit on thur/friday.


cool. was looking at the new kits... post back with how it does!


----------



## eminded1

I'm tring to get 1t on my kit do I up the dim voltage? or vccio or the sa to achive 1t? iv never tried to get 1 t before, whats the difference anyway? lower latency?
anyway I got my kit down to 16 18 18 38 @ 1.386v @ 3800mhz I'm testing with hci ram is a 45C not bad temps but it seems stable Ill postback as soon as I can confirm stability,


----------



## aliquiswe

I get a ton of:
Error: IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

the last one:
"Bug check description: This indicates that Microsoft Windows or a kernel-mode driver accessed paged memory at DISPATCH_LEVEL or above. This is a software bug.
This bug check belongs to the crash dump test that you have performed with WhoCrashed or other software. It means that a crash dump file was properly written out.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time."

But I've also gotten other BSODs. I run the Vengeance RGB 3466 MHz CL 16 kit at those settings using XMP on ASUS Z370-F Strix with the i7 8700K.

I had the impression this could be because of the latest AMD graphics drivers available for my graphics card (HD 6950) when used with Intel (no crashes before) (Why the **** do Edge use large G on Graphics and B on Before? Why!?) or because I used an old Windows installation but reinstalling Windows and use the latest beta or WQHL drivers from AMD.com both caused it and running DDU and stepping back to what Microsoft inställs (same version as the WQHL drivers) still did it.

You Think (this to, ******* piece of **** idiot browser, always, why?) this is because of the RAM speed or why do I get this? The AMD drivers? ASUS software?


----------



## KedarWolf

http://www.overclock.net/t/1510328/asus-x99-motherboard-series-official-support-thread-north-american-users-only/16020_20#post_26537055

http://www.overclock.net/t/1510328/asus-x99-motherboard-series-official-support-thread-north-american-users-only/16020_20#post_26537072

See these two posts if you want to check if the exploits are patched and the second to manually download the Windows updates to patch them.

Be sure to Rep +1 them.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
The bios update is needed first and asus needs to update their website for each board
Here's the actual mother boards listed so far a lot of x99 boards are missing
https://www.asus.com/News/V5urzYAT6myCC1o2?_ga=2.240287680.2137326284.1515260137-1218765459.1511023585


----------



## LunaP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> I just refunded the Trident Z. I'll probably get the same kit, but maybe non RGB since I've heard the RGBs don't OC as well.


That was just an issue w/ people running RGB software from G skill along w/ the Ai Suite and or other Motherboard/Hardware lighting software, that was fixed back in July iirc.

My 128gb RGB kit hits 4000 just fine.


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaP*
> 
> That was just an issue w/ people running RGB software from G skill along w/ the Ai Suite and or other Motherboard/Hardware lighting software, that was fixed back in July iirc.
> 
> My 128gb RGB kit hits 4000 just fine.


what memory kit? bios settings? mobo?
i lost 25% of memory at 4000, 3800 is fine


----------



## tistou77

Could you tell me what sub timings I could optimize ?



Thanks


----------



## shremi

Long time since i posted in this thread.

Just got my 8700k up and running ..... With samsung B dies 3200Cl14 what you guys recommend me to try ?


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Long time since i posted in this thread.
> 
> Just got my 8700k up and running ..... With samsung B dies 3200Cl14 what you guys recommend me to try ?


You should update your sig rig and provide more info. How many sticks will you be running, what system board, what are your goals in terms of OC? Questions like yours are too vague to even begin giving suggestions.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REAN1MAT0R*
> 
> what memory kit? bios settings? mobo?
> i lost 25% of memory at 4000, 3800 is fine


if it is dropping a channel, increase VPPDDR a notch or two, and tuning vsa/vccio can fix a dropped channel as well. By tuning, I mean, more VSA is not necessarily the fix.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Long time since i posted in this thread.
> 
> Just got my 8700k up and running ..... With samsung B dies 3200Cl14 what you guys recommend me to try ?


what board? 2 or 4 ram slots, how many sticks? On a 2 slot board, they should be able to do 4000 or higher with 1.45V (c16 or higher). ASUS ROG board?


----------



## REAN1MAT0R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> if it is dropping a channel, increase VPPDDR a notch or two, and tuning vsa/vccio can fix a dropped channel as well. By tuning, I mean, more VSA is not necessarily the fix.


thank you!
i will give it a try!


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what board? 2 or 4 ram slots, how many sticks? On a 2 slot board, they should be able to do 4000 or higher with 1.45V (c16 or higher). ASUS ROG board?


Sorry i just updated my rig ....

The board is the Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 ... 4 sticks ..... 32GB total in memmory ... I will be extemely happy with anything above 4000 mhz

I remember i couldnt get much out of these sticks on my haswell E maybe the cahnge of platform might help.


----------



## NeoandGeo

Same 3200c14 4x8GB set and I hit what is just about the limits of my specific set as follows:

5820k|2666c13 ASRock x99m Fatal1ty Gaming
5820k|3200c16 ASRock x99m Fatal1ty Gaming/3.1 *OC Socket
7700k|3733c15/17/17 | 3866c16/18/18 Asus Maximus IX Hero
8700k|4000c16/18/18 Asus Maximus X Hero

I did a moderate amount of tweaking the secondary and tertiary timings with the 7700k and quite a bit more with the 8700k. I'll post my current settings I use in a bit to see if they can give you something to work from. Haswell-E really held back DDR4 in my case.

Could possibly go higher on the RAM with my current setup, but [email protected] have put up a brick wall at 4Ghz RAM, cache is also at 45x with no wiggle room upwards, any bump results in a nice Error 55 post code.

EDIT: I really should update my signature as well.


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4400Mhz C19-19-19-44-1T - 1.41v Vdimm --- 1.25v SA --- 1.23v IO ---- Ram Test. 1Hr. 5000%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA

Spent more time playing with timings and managed to drop vdimm a fair bit


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Scone, at this rate you're going to have to hire a secretaryan administrative assistant to keep up!


There were more last time. The table is secondary to the thread, regardless.


----------



## Menthol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Okay, Menthol.
> 
> Peace.


KedarWolf,
A CPU swap and fresh OS and I can run 4 sticks at 4000mhz after all, it takes more IO and SA and package temps are up because of it, I don't like my Package being to hot








Going to leaving the 2x8 RGB kit on this board it's my daily use rig


----------



## japau

Has anyone experienced overclocking 2x16GB Dual Rank 32GB kits. How do they compare vs 2x8GB single rank kits?

Wondering is 4000c16-17 possible with 32GB.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *japau*
> 
> Has anyone experienced overclocking 2x16GB Dual Rank 32GB kits. How do they compare vs 2x8GB single rank kits?
> 
> Wondering is 4000c16-17 possible with 32GB.


2x8 sticks will normally overclock better.


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4400Mhz C18-18-18-42-1T - 1.43v Vdimm --- 1.25v SA --- 1.225v IO -- HCI memtest 1000%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA


----------



## Nizzen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4400Mhz C18-18-18-42-1T - 1.43v Vdimm --- 1.25v SA --- 1.225v IO -- HCI memtest 1000%
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA


Nice job!

If it's stabe 2 hours with Battlefield 1 Multiplayer 64, then it's stable enough


----------



## dbq5anlxj

what mode should I use with the asus apex board for memory oc? there are mode one and mode two. Thanks


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> what mode should I use with the asus apex board for memory oc? there are mode one and mode two. Thanks


Mode 1 may get a higher stable overclock but Mode 2 is better for performance.

My IMC is weak and can only do Mode 1 at 4000+MHZ.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Mode 1 may get a higher stable overclock but Mode 2 is better for performance.
> 
> My IMC is weak and can only do Mode 1 at 4000+MHZ.


thanks. It's 4000 already. I only can do 3600 on my gaming 7 board haha.


----------



## pphx459

Dudes can you share your memtweakit and asrock timing control settings for 4k? I'm having a helluva time getting there on the RVIE even with the built in presets


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pphx459*
> 
> Dudes can you share your memtweakit and asrock timing control settings for 4k? I'm having a helluva time getting there on the RVIE even with the built in presets


Here is one on a X299 Apex with a 7980Xe.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## dbq5anlxj

After I oced my ram to 4000 cl17 2t. I got really low write and copy speed in aida64 the read speed is fine . what may be the cause of this?


----------



## doni007

Hey guys again. I'm having a weird issue. My RAM is stable on cold boots. However, if I try to restart it loses stability. Does anyone know if there's a setting causing that?

Mobo: ASUS Strix Z370-I


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> After I oced my ram to 4000 cl17 2t. I got really low write and copy speed in aida64 the read speed is fine . what may be the cause of this?


Need to put your rig in your signature. How did you OC your memory ie: set your freq., primary's everything else on auto or use XMP and adjusted freq. and primary's? need more information.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Hey guys again. I'm having a weird issue. My RAM is stable on cold boots. However, if I try to restart it loses stability. Does anyone know if there's a setting causing that?
> 
> Mobo: ASUS Strix Z370-I


How are you determining it's the memory causing stability issue's?


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> How are you determining it's the memory causing stability issue's?


Everything is on stock now. RAM set to XMP speeds (manually). Fails RAM Test at the 300-500% mark. On cold boots, it passes 4000% every time.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Everything is on stock now. RAM set to XMP speeds (manually). Fails RAM Test at the 300-500% mark. On cold boots, it passes 4000% every time.


So your oc is 3600 CL16? What's your CPU/Cashe overclock and voltages? What is your VSA and VCCIO volatages?


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> So your oc is 3600 CL16? What's your CPU/Cashe overclock and voltages? What is your VSA and VCCIO volatages?


Sorry I didn't list my settings.

My RAM is 4266CL19.

I've already found them stable at the following settings:

VDIMM: 1.4
VCCSA: 1.225
VCCIO: 1.21

Here's the stable screenshots:




EDIT: These settings were stable with Core/Cache at 50/40 and Vcore 1.34(BIOS LLC5). They also seems stable with stock Core/Cache on cold boots.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Sorry I didn't list my settings.
> 
> My RAM is 4266CL19.
> 
> I've already found them stable at the following settings:
> 
> VDIMM: 1.4
> VCCSA: 1.225
> VCCIO: 1.21
> 
> Here's the stable screenshots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: These settings were stable with Core/Cache at 50/40 and Vcore 1.34(BIOS LLC5). They also seems stable with stock Core/Cache on cold boots.


are you using gskill tridentz memory ?Is this the rgb one or non rgb one? thanks


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> are you using gskill tridentz memory ?Is this the rgb one or non rgb one? thanks


Ah missed this, sorry again







G.Skilll Trident Z RGB (Samsung B-die)


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Mode 1 may get a higher stable overclock but Mode 2 is better for performance.
> 
> My IMC is weak and can only do Mode 1 at 4000+MHZ.


My rig only can post on mode 2 when running at 4200mhz.If I set it on mode 1 it won't post


----------



## pphx459

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> Here is one on a X299 Apex with a 7980Xe.


Thanks, what was teh VCCIO and VCCSA on that?


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pphx459*
> 
> Thanks, what was teh VCCIO and VCCSA on that?


[email protected] and [email protected]


----------



## ruruloko

Very good.

Ruruloko--- 8700k @ 5.3/5.0 3600cl 15--- 4400 17-18-18-38 1t

Vram:1.50
Eventual:1.45
VSA:1.22
VCCIO:1.21

1000% HCI


----------



## encrypted11

What RAM kits are those?


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ruruloko*
> 
> Very good.
> 
> Ruruloko--- 8700k @ 5.3/5.0 3600cl 15--- 4400 17-18-18-38 1t
> 
> Vram:1.50
> Eventual:1.45
> VSA:1.22
> VCCIO:1.21
> 
> 1000% HCI


Solid numbers!


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Hey guys again. I'm having a weird issue. My RAM is stable on cold boots. However, if I try to restart it loses stability. Does anyone know if there's a setting causing that?
> 
> Mobo: ASUS Strix Z370-I


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Everything is on stock now. RAM set to XMP speeds (manually). Fails RAM Test at the 300-500% mark. On cold boots, it passes 4000% every time.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Sorry I didn't list my settings.
> 
> My RAM is 4266CL19.
> 
> I've already found them stable at the following settings:
> 
> VDIMM: 1.4
> VCCSA: 1.225
> VCCIO: 1.21
> 
> Here's the stable screenshots:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: These settings were stable with Core/Cache at 50/40 and Vcore 1.34(BIOS LLC5). They also seems stable with stock Core/Cache on cold boots.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Ah missed this, sorry again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skilll Trident Z RGB (Samsung B-die)


@Jpmboy @Silent Scone Any thoughts on this members issue?


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4400Mhz C17-18-18-41-1T - 1.43v Vdimm --- 1.25v SA --- 1.2375v IO -- Ram Test 1 Hr 5000%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA

Have been trying for a while with 17 17 17 40 1T but still getting errors so far.


----------



## ESRCJ

For X299, should I bother messing with the uncore voltage offset when overclocking memory? Someone elsewhere mentioned this is something to consider for high memory overclocks.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> For X299, should I bother messing with the uncore voltage offset when overclocking memory? Someone elsewhere mentioned this is something to consider for high memory overclocks.


This is the way I have mine set.
Uncore Voltage Offset [Auto]
Uncore Voltage Offset Prefix [+]


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Ah missed this, sorry again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skilll Trident Z RGB (Samsung B-die)


from the Cpt's post of your ram thing. first, when you say cold boot (is okay), is that after a complete AC cut to the MB? (eg switching off the PSU) or just when you shut down windows and then power back on?
On first look - that 's a tough problem. First thing I would try is a complete clr cmos, then enter the XMP primary timings and voltage manually - don't load XMP at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> This is the way I have mine set.
> Uncore Voltage Offset [Auto]
> Uncore Voltage Offset Prefix [+]
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


on the Apex, auto is an offset of +0.450V. I've dropped mine to 0.4V without any performace or stability loss. Increasing to .5 is fine.


----------



## ESRCJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> from the Cpt's post of your ram thing. first, when you say cold boot (is okay), is that after a complete AC cut to the MB? (eg switching off the PSU) or just when you shut down windows and then power back on?
> On first look - that 's a tough problem. First thing I would try is a complete clr cmos, then enter the XMP primary timings and voltage manually - don't load XMP at all.
> on the Apex, auto is an offset of +0.450V. I've dropped mine to 0.4V without any performace or stability loss. Increasing to .5 is fine.


What monitoring software are you using to see the uncore voltage? I couldn't find it in hwinfo64. I'm using the RVIE and Auto for uncore v offset with + for the sign of the offset seems to yield an offset of 0 according to AI Suite 3:


----------



## dbq5anlxj

is there any way to tell I hit the memory kit oc limit or the cpu's imc is not good for handle high speed ram? Anything above 4000mhz I see write and copy speed drop in aida64 no matter how I change the timming.

3200 cl14 rgb
asus apex z370


----------



## JMTH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> What monitoring software are you using to see the uncore voltage? I couldn't find it in hwinfo64. I'm using the RVIE and Auto for uncore v offset with + for the sign of the offset seems to yield an offset of 0 according to AI Suite 3:


I use HWiNFO and AIDA64, they can both show the cache voltage on the RVE10 with a 6850K cpu.


----------



## encrypted11

What's a good G.Skill kit SS B die kit for attempting ~4400MHz C17 tuning?

I'm at 4000MHz C17-1T VDIMM 1.42V (mostly @JPmboy presets, they gave me a good headstart, thanks for the screenshots on the thread's gallery







) SS B Die TridentZ 3200MHz C14.

IO 1.02V/SA 1.1V, 5 hours of GSAT.
The IMC will probably scale, but my kit is holding back the memory speeds.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> @Jpmboy @Silent Scone Any thoughts on this members issue?


Enabling MRC Fast Boot after first turning on the system would be the easiest
remedy.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *encrypted11*
> 
> What's a good G.Skill kit SS B die kit for attempting ~4400MHz C17 tuning?
> 
> I'm at 4000MHz C17-1T VDIMM 1.42V (mostly @JPmboy presets, they gave me a good headstart, thanks for the screenshots on the thread's gallery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) SS B Die TridentZ 3200MHz C14.
> 
> IO 1.02V/SA 1.1V, 5 hours of GSAT.
> The IMC will probably scale, but my kit is holding back the memory speeds.


Even if the CPU is capable, CAS17 will need 1.7~. It's not a realistic target. For those speeds, the best bet is the highest TridentZ bin you can find.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Even if the CPU is capable, CAS17 will need 1.7~. It's not a realistic target. For those speeds, the best bet is the highest TridentZ bin you can find.


I was thinking something along the lines of "step 1: fly to South Korea"


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I was thinking something along the lines of "step 1: fly to South Korea"


Well gimme 16 of those!


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> from the Cpt's post of your ram thing. first, when you say cold boot (is okay), is that after a complete AC cut to the MB? (eg switching off the PSU) or just when you shut down windows and then power back on?
> On first look - that 's a tough problem. First thing I would try is a complete clr cmos, then enter the XMP primary timings and voltage manually - don't load XMP at all.
> on the Apex, auto is an offset of +0.450V. I've dropped mine to 0.4V without any performace or stability loss. Increasing to .5 is fine.


Just turning off through the power button or through windows and leaving it for 1-2 mins. I'm actually using manual no XMP profile loaded. I'll try a CMOS reset.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Enabling MRC Fast Boot after first turning on the system would be the easiest
> remedy.


Thanks, I'll try that setting first before a CMOS reset


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gridironcpj*
> 
> What monitoring software are you using to see the uncore voltage? I couldn't find it in hwinfo64. I'm using the RVIE and Auto for uncore v offset with + for the sign of the offset seems to yield an offset of 0 according to AI Suite 3:


can't see uncore voltage, only uncore offset.
siv64 "status" page. uncore and cache are separate voltages.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Just turning off through the power button or through windows and leaving it for 1-2 mins. I'm actually using manual no XMP profile loaded. I'll try a CMOS reset.
> Thanks, I'll try that setting first before a CMOS reset


what would help us is to see the full timing set after cold and warm boot. use asrock timing configurator for your platform and post up snips of both the good and the bad.


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *encrypted11*
> 
> Well gimme 16 of those!


only 1/2 joking - looks like the next gen of DDR4 will bring such nonsense.

Between process feature size reduction and optimization - looks like this year is going to be interesting for DDR4. Let's hope the supply issue is resolved...

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12279/adata-unveils-xpg-rgb-ddr4-spectrix-d60-4600-ds40-led-sodimm

(not for the package or the LEDs, but that turn-around time - though this particular examples hit the fudge bowl pretty hard - 26?!?)

Just aren't available to us mere mortals yet.


----------



## lilchronic

Meh im sending back this 4500Mhz CL19 kit. It is slightly better than my current 3600Mhz CL16 kit but just not worth it because my IMC cant handle it anyway. Nothing but post code 23 when pushing 1T @ 4266Mhz+, unless i just brute force the voltages but even then i have stability issues.


----------



## CptKuolio

Just a quick heads up and "go and test" message for RAM Test users;

Version 1.1. of RAM Test has just been released, bringing new features for people to test with. RAM Test now has options for better cache stability testing, and even some options for some form of an CPU-stresstesting (j/k)









Quote from updated readme.txt
Quote:


> CPU cache:
> 
> The CPU cache mode to use during the test.
> 
> - Disabled:
> 
> The memory pages are marked non-cachable and the CPU cache is not
> used during the test. The test will progress very slowly, but it
> will not pick up any CPU cache instability related errors.
> 
> - Write-combine:
> 
> The memory pages are marked write-combined and the CPU cache is
> used only for buffering writes. This is a little faster mode, but
> might pick up CPU cache instability related write errors.
> 
> - Default:
> 
> The CPU cache is used, but flushed frequently. The test will
> progress very quickly, but it might pick up CPU cache instability
> related read and write errors.
> 
> - Enabled:
> 
> The CPU cache is used without restriction. This is the fastest
> mode, but the probability of picking up CPU cache instability
> related read and write errors is also the highest.
> 
> RNG:
> 
> The random number generator to use during the test.
> 
> - Default:
> 
> The RtlGenRandom function is used to generate random numbers.
> 
> - XORWOW:
> 
> The XORWOW function is used to generate random numbers. This might
> improve performance, especially on Windows 7.
> 
> Stress FPU:
> 
> Stress the floating point unit of the CPU to generate more heat.


----------



## CptSpig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptKuolio*
> 
> Just a quick heads up and "go and test" message for RAM Test users;
> 
> Version 1.1. of RAM Test has just been released, bringing new features for people to test with. RAM Test now has options for better cache stability testing, and even some options for some form of an CPU-stresstesting (j/k)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote from updated readme.txt


Thanks for the update I will give the new version a shot.


----------



## l Nuke l

4266 cl17, 5.1 core and 4.8 cache no avx offset 8 hours of gsat and hci memtest stable.


----------



## KedarWolf

I tell my friend, "Check out my new Z370 Maximus X Formula, the VRMs are water cooled!!"

Him, "Were they overheating before?"

Me,


----------



## djgar

Is Ram Test's default memory setting enough for a good test?


----------



## CptKuolio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Is Ram Test's default memory setting enough for a good test?


Yes.

Cache options were implemented for users who want to test cpu cache stability and new random number string for windows 7 users, giving about 10x speedboost on windows 7 bringing it on par with windows 10.

Default values are then same as previous version.


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptKuolio*
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Cache options were implemented for users who want to test cpu cache stability and new random number string for windows 7 users, giving about 10x speedboost on windows 7 bringing it on par with windows 10.
> 
> Default values are then same as previous version.


Thanks! So I can leave the amount of memory at default.


----------



## CptKuolio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Thanks! So I can leave the amount of memory at default.


Sure, or adjust it to match the amount of free memory displayed by the program.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> Meh im sending back this 4500Mhz CL19 kit. It is slightly better than my current 3600Mhz CL16 kit but just not worth it because my IMC cant handle it anyway. Nothing but post code 23 when pushing 1T @ 4266Mhz+, unless i just brute force the voltages but even then i have stability issues.


thanks for the post. good to know.
+1


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptKuolio*
> 
> Just a quick heads up and "go and test" message for RAM Test users;
> 
> Version 1.1. of RAM Test has just been released, bringing new features for people to test with. RAM Test now has options for better cache stability testing, and even some options for some form of an CPU-stresstesting (j/k)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote from updated readme.txt


The CPU cache mode is faster to find errors or progress in % ?
For me, it's a little slower than Default mode

Enable : 11mn, 500%
Default : 11mn, 560%

Otherwise 500% with Ram Test really corresponds to 500% with HCI Memtest ?
Because it's much faster and I wonder if it's really reliable

Thanks


----------



## CptKuolio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> The CPU cache mode is faster to find errors or progress in % ?
> For me, it's a little slower than Default mode
> 
> Enable : 11mn, 500%
> Default : 11mn, 560%
> 
> Otherwise 500% with Ram Test really corresponds to 500% with HCI Memtest ?
> Because it's much faster and I wonder if it's really reliable
> 
> Thanks


For me RAM Test seems as good as HCI % to %, but I don't keep myself technically versed enough. In my eyes 500% of RAM Test is just as good as 500% of HCI memtest, the first one is just insane amounts of faster. But as said, I am not enough well versed in technology behind the software, but rely on people who are, like the stilt (who made fast memory profiles on samsung b-die for AMD Ryzen last summer, that were adapted by Asus etc.) said that Ram Test is probably the best memory bench at the moment.

Stilt had this to say about Ram Test few weeks back on anandtech forums;
Quote:


> Having the ability to test all of the available DRAM is obviously ideal, but nowdays when people have >= 16GB of memory available this is seldom an actual issue.
> Back in the DDR/DDR2 ERA when the systems had 512-2048MB DRAM available, Memtest86 was basically the only option as the OS alone would consume a significant portion of the total available DRAM.
> 
> As the DRAM capacities increased and made "in OS" testing possible with HCI Memtest, the results between the two testing methods were rather drastically different.
> Most of the DRAM overclocks previously deemed "stable" with Memtest86 were producing plenty of errors in HCI, even after a short run. There was also a phenomenon which proved that HCI was pushing the DRAM much harder than Memtest86 ever did: the temperature of the DRAM modules, which at the time was an actual issue.
> 
> HCI Memtest revolutionized the DRAM testing back in early 2000s it was introduced.
> Even today there is nothing really wrong with it, when it comes to finding the memory related errors.
> The only actual fault it has is the fact that it has fallen completely behind the development: it is still a 32-bit application (supporting up to ~3.5GB of DRAM per instance), it is single threaded and totally unoptimized (X87 code).
> 
> The "Ram Test" application I mentioned before fixes all of those faults, while matching or excelling in capability of finding the memory errors.
> 
> I'd also like to mention that I "know" the author of "Ram Test" and that I had a role in it's conception.
> In 2017 I had to run memory tests basically daily basis (Ryzen). While the HCI being the only tool available, that almost a daily task was extremely time consuming and tedious due to the fact that HCI Memtest was so slow even when multiple instances were run simultaneously.
> When the first versions of "Ram Test" became available, it was really a god sent despite the fact that the performance wasn't even at the same levels as it is today.
> 
> So biased or not, I still definitely highly recommend "Ram Test" to everyone. That's what I personally use now and so far it has never failed me.
> Besides, it costs only 12$ (of which I receive none) to check it out yourself, so it's not like we're talking about a major investment here.


https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/techpowerups-memtest-64-is-it-better-than-hci-memtest-for-determining-stability.2532209/#post-39244531

Also noted here, on this thread, was that HCI tests CPU cache, besides memory. RAM Test was all about testing memory. So I think Mustanaamio added CPU-Cache testing option to this update by the feedback given here. So kudos to everyone here who pointed that out


----------



## tistou77

Thanks for your feedback
Indeed, it is really very appreciable this speed
Instead of testing several hours with HCI Memtest, just 1h, see 30mn is enough with Ram Test


----------



## Silent Scone

Do note, however, that GSAT gives very similar results when running through BASH terminal


----------



## cekim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Do note, however, that GSAT gives very similar results when running through BASH terminal


I wondered this aloud some time ago to Jpmboy... Given that its userspace code and you are going through the kernel, that kernel is Ntoskrnl (windows) not the linux kernel, so its conceivable that one or the other could produce significantly more or less stress on the memory by virtue of kernel.

I haven't had time or inclination to test it with known good and bad settings, so I remain curious about the experiences of others who've tried to objectively compare them...


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptKuolio*
> 
> For me RAM Test seems as good as HCI % to %, but I don't keep myself technically versed enough. In my eyes 500% of RAM Test is just as good as 500% of HCI memtest, the first one is just insane amounts of faster. But as said, I am not enough well versed in technology behind the software, but rely on people who are, like the stilt (who made fast memory profiles on samsung b-die for AMD Ryzen last summer, that were adapted by Asus etc.) said that Ram Test is probably the best memory bench at the moment.
> 
> Stilt had this to say about Ram Test few weeks back on anandtech forums;
> https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/techpowerups-memtest-64-is-it-better-than-hci-memtest-for-determining-stability.2532209/#post-39244531
> 
> Also noted here, on this thread, was that HCI tests CPU cache, besides memory. RAM Test was all about testing memory. So I think Mustanaamio added CPU-Cache testing option to this update by the feedback given here. So kudos to everyone here who pointed that out


yeah, we understand your enthusiasm for ramtest. BUt, it's simply another tool - a fairly good one. I posted a week ago that ramtest failed to find a rather simple error in more than 1 hour that bash/gsat picked up in 20 min.
It's a good program, but as with any, may not be the only test one should use.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Do note, however, that GSAT gives very similar results when running through BASH terminal


^^ this. I have yet to find a situation where BASH-GSAT failed to find a ram issue - faster than any other test I've tried.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cekim*
> 
> I wondered this aloud some time ago to Jpmboy... Given that its userspace code and you are going through the kernel, that kernel is Ntoskrnl (windows) not the linux kernel, so its conceivable that one or the other could produce significantly more or less stress on the memory by virtue of kernel.
> 
> I haven't had time or inclination to test it with known good and bad settings, so I remain curious about the experiences of others who've tried to objectively compare them...


I have not really compared linux GSAT vs BASH GSAT. But, so far I'm not finding fault with GSAT run either in linux or thru bash. I mean, I have a puppy linux USB stick that has tested many different machines, some before any OS is loaded other than pLinux.


----------



## Enterprise24

Anyone try Z370 Fatality Gaming K6 yet ? I read reviews that it can overclock ram to 4200-4340 easily. Seem like a good price/performance. But one of the reviewer said that it limit IO and SA settings at 1.35V. I am not sure will it limit DRAM voltage also ? Wanna play 4000 C12 and also 4266+ 24/7.

Also interest in Z370 Fatality ITX. 1 dpc should be easier right ? but the lack of dual BIOS and debug code made me concerned.


----------



## lilchronic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> thanks for the post. good to know.
> +1


4500Mhz CL19-19-19-39-2T tweak mode 1 needed 1.45v DRAM / 1.34v SA / 1.33v IO, any lower SA / IO i would get errors in HCI and ram test within 30 min.


----------



## encrypted11

Quote: Originally Posted by *Enterprise24* 

Anyone try Z370 Fatality Gaming K6 yet ? I read reviews that it can overclock ram to 4200-4340 easily. Seem like a good price/performance. But one of the reviewer said that it limit IO and SA settings at 1.35V. I am not sure will it limit DRAM voltage also ? Wanna play 4000 C12 and also 4266+ 24/7.

Also interest in Z370 Fatality ITX. 1 dpc should be easier right ? but the lack of dual BIOS and debug code made me concerned.



The fatal1ty itx is a good board, but I'd like to point out 3 limitations that are present currently (BIOS P1.40):

1. Limits
Long duration/Short Duration power limit capped at 200W
(well.. it supports just a 6/12 CPU at best, runs 2 less phases on the cores than the X299E-ITX/ac that supports 18/36 CPUs, but the latter gets a 4095W power limit lolwut?)
SA: 1.35V Max
IO: 1.2V Max
VDIMM: 1.5V Max

2. VCCSA adjustments go in 50mV increments (IO at 10mV), Taichi users do not have this issue. I haven't tested the maximum value however

3. The only PWM+DC header is CPU_OPT, CPU_FAN and CHA_FAN are DC control only.

I handed these feedback to asrock awhile ago, I'm hoping at least 1 & 2 will be address. I'm having a 4000 16-17-17-38-1T memory overclock, IO/SA at 1.02V/1.1V.
Memory training was never an issue (tested it till 4300 1.5V unstable, with the RAM kit hitting a wall).
POST times are phenomenal with a dGPU. (5 seconds reboot, 8 seconds cold boot with hybrid shutdown/start),


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4500Mhz C18-19-19-43-2T - 1.46v Vdimm --- 1.2875v SA --- 1.2375v IO -- Ram Test 1 Hr 5000%

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA

I had to run at CR2 here as CR1 won't work. Also I used mode 2.

I picked the best ram sticks from 2 different sets as well and they ran fine enough together.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4500Mhz C18-19-19-43-2T - 1.46v Vdimm --- 1.2875v SA --- 1.2375v IO -- Ram Test 1 Hr 5000%
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA
> 
> I had to run at CR2 here as CR1 won't work. Also I used mode 2.
> 
> I picked the best ram sticks from 2 different sets as well and they ran fine enough together.


Impressive. Out of interest, do those same settings pass GSAT/HCI?


----------



## glnn_23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Impressive. Out of interest, do those same settings pass GSAT/HCI?


Can't say as I've only run Ram Test so far.


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *encrypted11*
> 
> Lack of a dual BIOS?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fatal1ty itx is a good board, but I'd like to point out 3 limitations that are present currently (BIOS P1.40):
> 
> 1. Limits
> Long duration/Short Duration power limit capped at 200W
> (well.. it supports just a 6/12 CPU at best, runs 2 less phases on the cores than the X299E-ITX/ac that supports 18/36 CPUs, but the latter gets a 4095W power limit lolwut?)
> SA: 1.35V Max
> IO: 1.2V Max
> VDIMM: 1.5V Max
> 
> 2. VCCSA adjustments go in 50mV increments (IO at 10mV), Taichi users do not have this issue. I haven't tested the maximum value however
> 
> 3. The only PWM+DC header is CPU_OPT, CPU_FAN and CHA_FAN are DC control only.
> 
> I handed these feedback to asrock awhile ago, I'm hoping at least 1 & 2 will be address. I'm having a 4000 16-17-17-38-1T memory overclock, IO/SA at 1.02V/1.1V.
> Memory training was never an issue (tested it till 4300 1.5V unstable, with the RAM kit hitting a wall).
> POST times are phenomenal with a dGPU. (5 seconds reboot, 8 seconds cold boot with hybrid shutdown/start),


Thank you. That is extremely useful information.

So VDIMM limit 1.5V ? I can safely say good bye to it without feeling bad.









So I will focus on K6 now. Hope that it will not have the same limitations.


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Thank you. That is extremely useful information.
> 
> So VDIMM limit 1.5V ? I can safely say good bye to it without feeling bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I will focus on K6 now. Hope that it will not have the same limitations.


Well the BIOS limits remain unchanged on P1.50, just the microcode update. Except a couple of RAM tweaking additions (MRC Fastboot, ODTs related settings and a few others).

Its unlikely the limits are going away at this point.


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *encrypted11*
> 
> Well the BIOS limits remain unchanged on P1.50, just the microcode update. Except a couple of RAM tweaking additions (MRC Fastboot, ODTs related settings and a few others).
> 
> Its unlikely the limits are going away at this point.


Does it have rising / falling slope settings ? It really help my previous i5-6500 + Z170 OCF + Booting over 4000.


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> Does it have rising / falling slope settings ? It really help my previous i5-6500 + Z170 OCF + Booting over 4000.


Its pretty much primary, second, third, fourth and these with P1.50


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4500Mhz C18-19-19-43-2T - 1.46v Vdimm --- 1.2875v SA --- 1.2375v IO ---- GSAT 1 Hour.

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA

Ran GSAT in Linux Mint and used same settings as when running Ram Test at 4500Mhz.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilchronic*
> 
> 4500Mhz CL19-19-19-39-2T tweak mode 1 needed 1.45v DRAM / 1.34v SA / 1.33v IO, any lower SA / IO i would get errors in HCI and ram test within 30 min.


yeah, I start getting into high vsa when running over 4266... just to post with this 4400c19 kit. XMP does work, justy the measured vsa is higher than I like, or know is "good" for this architecture.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> Can't say as I've only run Ram Test so far.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4500Mhz C18-19-19-43-2T - 1.46v Vdimm --- 1.2875v SA --- 1.2375v IO ---- GSAT 1 Hour.
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA
> 
> Ran GSAT in Linux Mint and used same settings as when running Ram Test at 4500Mhz.


thx. Helpful comparo. +1

it's the best we can do with this type-B (type II) test... "the absence of an error is not evidence of absence" u know, aliens and the like.


----------



## Enterprise24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *encrypted11*
> 
> Its pretty much primary, second, third, fourth and these with P1.50


OK thanks again


----------



## ogider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4500Mhz C18-19-19-43-2T - 1.46v Vdimm --- 1.2875v SA --- 1.2375v IO ---- GSAT 1 Hour.
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA


Great result


----------



## l Nuke l

So my pc bluescreened this morning during a cold boot after being stable in hci memtest for 8 hours, gsat 8 hours, aida64 cache test 8 hours and realbench 8 hours. Having no clue y it blue screened I decided to run hci again only to get 2 errors within a 3 hour period which is about 800% where before it completed 2000% with no errors plus the other mentioned stress tests. Anyone been through something like this?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> So my pc bluescreened this morning during a cold boot after being stable in hci memtest for 8 hours, gsat 8 hours, aida64 cache test 8 hours and realbench 8 hours. Having no clue y it blue screened I decided to run hci again only to get 2 errors within a 3 hour period which is about 800% where before it completed 2000% with no errors plus the other mentioned stress tests. Anyone been through something like this?


Usually down to drift in training parameters between boots. You'll need to relax things slightly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glnn_23*
> 
> glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4500Mhz C18-19-19-43-2T - 1.46v Vdimm --- 1.2875v SA --- 1.2375v IO ---- GSAT 1 Hour.
> 
> G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA
> 
> Ran GSAT in Linux Mint and used same settings as when running Ram Test at 4500Mhz.


Great result and CPU, too


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> So my pc bluescreened this morning during a cold boot after being stable in hci memtest for 8 hours, gsat 8 hours, aida64 cache test 8 hours and realbench 8 hours. Having no clue y it blue screened I decided to run hci again only to get 2 errors within a 3 hour period which is about 800% where before it completed 2000% with no errors plus the other mentioned stress tests. Anyone been through something like this?


was the blue screen accompanied by a bsod dump report? Or simply the gpu never found the monitor?


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> was the blue screen accompanied by a bsod dump report? Or simply the gpu never found the monitor?


1. No dump file was recorded, I think do to the fact that I have page file disabled. 2. Dont know what you mean by 2nd question.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Usually down to drift in training parameters between boots. You'll need to relax things slightly.


Since it is a training issue do you think that increasing certain boot voltages would help?


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptSpig*
> 
> @Jpmboy @Silent Scone Any thoughts on this members issue?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> from the Cpt's post of your ram thing. first, when you say cold boot (is okay), is that after a complete AC cut to the MB? (eg switching off the PSU) or just when you shut down windows and then power back on?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Enabling MRC Fast Boot after first turning on the system would be the easiest
> remedy.


Enabling MRC Fast boot fixed the problem! I noticed that when it was disabled the RTLs would change from 69/71 to 73/74 which made it unstable.

Finally got a stable 2 Hour GSAT run. Will post the screenshot in a moment!


----------



## doni007

doni007 -- 8700k @ 4.7 / 4.4 --- 4266Mhz C17-18-18-39-2T - 1.456v VDIMM--- 1.264v VCCSA --- 1.27v IO ---- GSAT 2 Hours.

EDIT: Just want to thank everyone that helped me get this working. Thanks a lot guys!
 








Start:


Finish:


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> 1. No dump file was recorded, I think do to the fact that I have page file disabled. 2. Dont know what you mean by 2nd question.


yeah - no dmp when paging is off. for the second Q, is the board booting and loading windows on a restart, but the monitor says "No Signal"? I've sen this a few times on z370 apex with bios 1003, tho I'm not 100% sure it is anything but the HDMI to DVI to HDMI cable kludge I have running right now. ... been too lazy to snake an regular HDMI cable to the back of the 55 inch 4K panel it's connected to.








In my case, a white-button cold restart or pulling the HDMI from the 1080 and reinserting it works.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Since it is a training issue do you think that increasing certain boot voltages would help?


not necessarily. try backing off on the primaries one notch and test. I mean, after passing what it did, then failing, the system may just have been in a conditional stability "valley". Drift of the signals will break that. This can be the IMC or the sticks or both.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> *Enabling MRC Fast boot* fixed the problem! I noticed that when it was disabled the RTLs would change from 69/71 to 73/74 which made it unstable.
> 
> Finally got a stable 2 Hour GSAT run. Will post the screenshot in a moment!


just be aware that enabling the MRC fast boot bypasses some training of the ram. It's fine, as long as the settings/timings are really good.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - no dmp when paging is off. for the second Q, is the board booting and loading windows on a restart, but the monitor says "No Signal"? I've sen this a few times on z370 apex with bios 1003, tho I'm not 100% sure it is anything but the HDMI to DVI to HDMI cable kludge I have running right now. ... been too lazy to snake an regular HDMI cable to the back of the 55 inch 4K panel it's connected to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my case, a white-button cold restart or pulling the HDMI from the 1080 and reinserting it works.
> not necessarily. try backing off on the primaries one notch and test. I mean, after passing what it did, then failing, the system may just have been in a conditional stability "valley". Drift of the signals will break that. This can be the IMC or the sticks or both.


Yes, board is booting and loading windows on a restart, no issues with gpu. Here are some screenshots. I tweaked sa/io boot voltages and never get intermittent 55's anymore or any post codes seems to be the sweet spot. What should I adjust for primaries?


----------



## ogider

doni007
This IO-L seems high.

But best if someone like Jpmboy or Silent Scone (with experience)could confirm is that wrong or not.


----------



## Menthol

I noticed on my X Hero with bios 1003, resuming from sleep to no screen, or refusing to go to sleep with settings that pass Ramtest, needed bump in VCCIO, and VCCSA and know requires higher VCCIO than VCCSA to sleep/resume correctly.
For my daily use PC, it is not stable if it doesn't sleep/resume from sleep correctly


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> doni007
> This IO-L seems high.
> 
> But best if someone like Jpmboy or Silent Scone (with experience)could confirm is that wrong or not.


Yeah I've noticed. But I can't get it sub 10 unless my RAM is below 3600Mhz no matter how much I adjust VDIMM, IO, SA


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> Yes, board is booting and loading windows on a restart, no issues with gpu. Here are some screenshots. I tweaked sa/io boot voltages and never get intermittent 55's anymore or any post codes seems to be the sweet spot. What should I adjust for primaries?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


one thing about using several boot and eventual voltages is exactly the kind of symptoms you are seeing. for 24/7 stuff best to run vsa and vccio normally (eg boot=run V). DramV can be suspect the same way, but at least ime, this one has not been an issue (like, I have my 6950X with 3400c13 ram booting at 1.45 and running at 1.425V since the platform launched, and it is on every day). IDk if VSa and VCCIO would be the same in the long run.
Some CPU IMCs just top out before others, and it may actually be more efficient to tune a lower dram frequency. It's all about finding the sweetspot for the specific combo of cpu/ram/board, and this will be different even for identical SKUs.
Just my









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ogider*
> 
> doni007
> This IO-L seems high.
> 
> But best if someone like Jpmboy or Silent Scone (with experience)could confirm is that wrong or not.


if it holds stable and is running as he/she wants... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". But, if tuning for grins... then yeah, the RTL/IOL may work at 60/61/7/7 for 4266 1T on a 2 channel board. 4 channel boards are gonna be different (and IME, run better with all slots filled - t-topology etc.)


----------



## ogider

Jpmboy
Good to know


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> just be aware that enabling the MRC fast boot bypasses some training of the ram. It's fine, as long as the settings/timings are really good.


I did not find this option, available with the R6E ?
This is to not have the double boot (when the PSU was off before) ?

Thanks


----------



## ogider

Extreme tweaker ->dram timing control?


----------



## aerotracks

Corsair Vengeance 4333 Philly 2017 Edition, took me a while to get them memtested at various settings









http://abload.de/image.php?img=20180114-211446t5uv8.png


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerotracks*
> 
> Corsair Vengeance 4333 Philly 2017 Edition, took me a while to get them memtested at various settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://abload.de/image.php?img=20180114-211446t5uv8.png


nice.







voltages?


----------



## aerotracks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> voltages?


My 7740X needs 1.35V IO / 1.32V SA for stablity at DDR4-4500, set it and forget it is what I do about IMC volts as I'm progressively getting more lazy








As for VDIMM, 1.47V, probably can get away with less.

4333 sticks' big brother, 4400C19 LPX do a decent job as well, same volts but weaker TRCD


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://abload.de/image.php?img=20180114-184710t2ubq.png


----------



## Jpmboy

yeah - I kinda miss playin' with my 7740X. screamin 4-cores.


----------



## aerotracks

I'll surely hold onto mine as nobody wants to buy one


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerotracks*
> 
> I'll surely hold onto mine as nobody wants to buy one


yeah - mine is in the drawer right now... bumped by it's big brother.


----------



## encrypted11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthol*
> 
> I noticed on my X Hero with bios 1003, resuming from sleep to no screen, or refusing to go to sleep with settings that pass Ramtest, needed bump in VCCIO, and VCCSA and know requires higher VCCIO than VCCSA to sleep/resume correctly.
> For my daily use PC, it is not stable if it doesn't sleep/resume from sleep correctly


Microcode bug is a possibility. Chanced upon this info when I was picking up ThinkPad patches.

Kabylake U/Y/H/S etc runs Microcode 80 like coffeelake-S though the checksums are different. Microcode 80 broke s3 sleep state.


----------



## tistou77

I did not find this option, maybe not available on the R6E, too bad


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> I did not find this option, maybe not available on the R6E, too bad


what option?


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what option?


MRC Fast boot
I forgot the "quote" in my 2nd post


----------



## Phpanos

Hi guys!

I've recently bought a new computer and managed to overclock my Intel i7 8700k to 4.7ghz by following the second post in this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/78g4qh/msi_z370_8700k_overclocking_tips/

Using my computer normally works totally fine. I've played games like PUBG for several hours etc so there's no issue there.

However! When I run HCI memtest my screen turns black for a few seconds and then turns on again after like 30% coverage. But after around 50-100% coverage it reboots. No errors are shown in the memtest.

The warning message I get from windows 10 event log is:
"display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered"

Specs:

Motherboard: MSI Tomahawk z370
CPU: Intel i7 8700k
GPU: ASUS GeForce GTX 1070 ROG Strix Gaming
RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR4 3200MHz 2x 8GB

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> I've recently bought a new computer and managed to overclock my Intel i7 8700k to 4.7ghz by following the second post in this thread:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/78g4qh/msi_z370_8700k_overclocking_tips/
> 
> Using my computer normally works totally fine. I've played games like PUBG for several hours etc so there's no issue there.
> 
> However! When I run HCI memtest my screen turns black for a few seconds and then turns on again after like 30% coverage. But after around 50-100% coverage it reboots. No errors are shown in the memtest.
> 
> The warning message I get from windows 10 event log is:
> "display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered"
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Motherboard: MSI Tomahawk z370
> CPU: Intel i7 8700k
> GPU: ASUS GeForce GTX 1070 ROG Strix Gaming
> RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR4 3200MHz 2x 8GB
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


yeah - that's seriously not stable. probably shoiuld work on getting the cpu stable (with no OC on the gpu) first, then test the ram.


----------



## doni007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> I've recently bought a new computer and managed to overclock my Intel i7 8700k to 4.7ghz by following the second post in this thread:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/78g4qh/msi_z370_8700k_overclocking_tips/
> 
> Using my computer normally works totally fine. I've played games like PUBG for several hours etc so there's no issue there.
> 
> However! When I run HCI memtest my screen turns black for a few seconds and then turns on again after like 30% coverage. But after around 50-100% coverage it reboots. No errors are shown in the memtest.
> 
> The warning message I get from windows 10 event log is:
> "display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered"
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Motherboard: MSI Tomahawk z370
> CPU: Intel i7 8700k
> GPU: ASUS GeForce GTX 1070 ROG Strix Gaming
> RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR4 3200MHz 2x 8GB
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


Close Precision XOC or MSI aftertburner if you have them. I have a similar issue with HCI if these programs are running.


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah - that's seriously not stable. probably shoiuld work on getting the cpu stable (with no OC on the gpu) first, then test the ram.


Why is it not stable? I ran aida64 for 30 minutes and the temp got stabilized at 76 degrees. Could you please elaborate a little more? I'm new to this (I've got a friend helping me out).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doni007*
> 
> Close Precision XOC or MSI aftertburner if you have them. I have a similar issue with HCI if these programs are running.


I don't have any of these programs installed


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> Why is it not stable? I ran aida64 for 30 minutes and the temp got stabilized at 76 degrees. Could you please elaborate a little more? I'm new to this (I've got a friend helping me out).
> I don't have any of these programs installed


30 minutes is not a sufficient test - try 2 hours or more.


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> 30 minutes is not a sufficient test - try 2 hours or more.


Ok I'll try it tonight.
But why isn't my cpu stable? He could tell by just looking at the voltages I guess? Do you have any idea?


----------



## djgar

My system is totally different - no idea. You should use the rig builder and put it in your sig so people can see your system.


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> My system is totally different - no idea. You should use the rig builder and put it in your sig so people can see your system.


Thanks I will!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> Why is it not stable? I ran aida64 for 30 minutes and the temp got stabilized at 76 degrees. Could you please elaborate a little more? I'm new to this (I've got a friend helping me out).
> I don't have any of these programs installed


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> Ok I'll try it tonight.
> *But why isn't my cpu stable*? He could tell by just looking at the voltages I guess? Do you have any idea?


It's pretty common for XMP to not set all necessary voltages properly.
Basically, I'd clear cmos and overclock this way, each CPU is different, so each needs to be tuned on it's own:


Set the desired multiplier (say 48, 49 or 50). Set a mid level LLC, POwer phases to optimized or extreme, disable cpu, bclk spreadspectrum, disable CPu SVID
Using manual override vcore, determine the vcore neeed to hold stable (use AID64 cpu, fpu, cache, no need to check the memory box. aid64 - 2hours. If you use ASUS Realbench, 1 hour min. *x264v2* - 20 loops with 1.5x the number of threads, so for a 8700K, 18 threads).
Once you have the core "tuned"... increase cache 1 notch at a time until it fails 30min of AID64 cache stress test. then back down one notch
NOw, while still leaving ram at SPD (no XMP!) you can switch to adaptive using the voltage you just determined to be stable (using the MSi bios settings you had before - enable CPU SVID), save the manual override settings to a save slot in bios. Manual is absolutely fine to use, and is the only way to OC a CPU that has a higher-than-needed VID stack. (adaptive cannot run below the vid, and many 8700Ks are stable below the preprogrammed vid). Test again with x264v2 or realbench... or which ever stress test you believe covers your use scenario. For gaming rigs, Realbench is good.
Once this is all done.. post back and we can get the ram tuned up.
I would not just plug in voltages some guy posted on the web.


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> It's pretty common for XMP to not set all necessary voltages properly.
> Basically, I'd clear cmos and overclock this way, each CPU is different, so each needs to be tuned on it's own:
> 
> 
> Set the desired multiplier (say 48, 49 or 50). Set a mid level LLC, POwer phases to optimized or extreme, disable cpu, bclk spreadspectrum, disable CPu SVID
> Using manual override vcore, determine the vcore neeed to hold stable (use AID64 cpu, fpu, cache, no need to check the memory box. aid64 - 2hours. If you use ASUS Realbench, 1 hour min. *x264v2* - 20 loops with 1.5x the number of threads, so for a 8700K, 18 threads).
> Once you have the core "tuned"... increase cache 1 notch at a time until it fails 30min of AID64 cache stress test. then back down one notch
> NOw, while still leaving ram at SPD (no XMP!) you can switch to adaptive using the voltage you just determined to be stable (using the MSi bios settings you had before - enable CPU SVID), save the manual override settings to a save slot in bios. Manual is absolutely fine to use, and is the only way to OC a CPU that has a higher-than-needed VID stack. (adaptive cannot run below the vid, and many 8700Ks are stable below the preprogrammed vid). Test again with x264v2 or realbench... or which ever stress test you believe covers your use scenario. For gaming rigs, Realbench is good.
> Once this is all done.. post back and we can get the ram tuned up.
> I would not just plug in voltages some guy posted on the web.


Thank you very much for these steps! As I'm new to overclocking I'm not familiar with all of the terms. It seems some of these settings apply to ASUS motherboard where as I have the MSI z370 Tomahawk.
I know these settings could be under different names, but I couldn't find them.

This is what I've done so far:

Set multiplier to 4.7 (to start with).
Set LLC to mid lvl (mode 4 in my case).
Set CPU CORE / GT Voltage Mode to Adaptive.
Manually override vcore voltage to 1.25 (to start with).
Settings I could NOT find / didn't understand:

Power phase option
Disable bclk - My BCLK is set to 100, do I edit this value to disable it?
Where is the cache setting I want to increase once cpu is stable?
Here are two images of my overclock settings on my motherboard:




Thank you very much for taking your time helping me out!


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> what option?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> MRC Fast boot
> I forgot the "quote" in my 2nd post


This option is not available with the R6E ?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> Thank you very much for these steps! As I'm new to overclocking I'm not familiar with all of the terms. It seems some of these settings apply to ASUS motherboard where as I have the MSI z370 Tomahawk.
> I know these settings could be under different names, but I couldn't find them.
> 
> This is what I've done so far:
> 
> Set multiplier to 4.7 (to start with).
> Set LLC to mid lvl (mode 4 in my case).
> Set CPU CORE / GT Voltage Mode to Adaptive.
> Manually override vcore voltage to 1.25 (to start with).
> Settings I could NOT find / didn't understand:
> 
> Power phase option
> Disable bclk - My BCLK is set to 100, do I edit this value to disable it?
> Where is the cache setting I want to increase once cpu is stable?
> Here are two images of my overclock settings on my motherboard:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for taking your time helping me out!


disable bclk spread spectrum.
check under DigiPOwer for phase settings. Yeah - I'm not familiar with MSI's bios.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> This option is not available with the R6E ?
> 
> Thanks


Look for MRC Fast Path, something like that. I'd check my bios, but the machine is busy right now.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Look for MRC Fast Path, something like that. I'd check my bios, but the machine is busy right now.


I searched in Extreme Tweaker - DRAM Timings, but I did not see any option MRC
but I will check

Thanks


----------



## Pepillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you can switch to adaptive using the voltage you just determined to be stable (using the MSi bios settings you had before - enable CPU SVID)


One question about this. I have my 7900X rock stable at 4.800 MHz with 0 offset AVX, adaptive +0.055 - VID 1.273v, and mesh 3.200 MHz at 1.115v. I read that is not recomended with overclock enable SVID, can give dangerous voltajes on charge. I want to enable it because Asus do not give some information like CPU W without SVID, but I do not want risks for this. What doy you think about this? Thanks


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Look for MRC Fast Path, something like that. I'd check my bios, but the machine is busy right now.


these are the options I have in DRAM Timings




Thanks


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> One question about this. I have my 7900X rock stable at 4.800 MHz with 0 offset AVX, adaptive +0.055 - VID 1.273v, and mesh 3.200 MHz at 1.115v. I read that is not recomended with overclock enable SVID, can give dangerous voltajes on charge. I want to enable it because Asus do not give some information like CPU W without SVID, but I do not want risks for this. What doy you think about this? Thanks


The answer interests me too
SIV indicates the W even if SVID is disabled, but I do not know if it's the right values


----------



## doni007

Update:

doni007 -- 8700k @ 4.7 / 4.4 --- 4200Mhz C17-18-18-28-2T - 1.456v VDIMM--- 1.224v VCCSA --- 1.12v IO ---- RAM Test 10000%

Previous settings were not stable with in RAM test, so I tried lowering the frequency a bit down from 4266 to 4200 and it seems my system likes that a lot more! Used japau's subtimings as a starting point and I could get the VCCIO and VCCSA way lower with tighter timings as well.


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> disable bclk spread spectrum.
> check under DigiPOwer for phase settings. Yeah - I'm not familiar with MSI's bios.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I've run aida64 for 2 hours and it is stable now (I think). Couldn't find the cache setting you wanted me to increase. Can I go ahead and do the memtest now?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> One question about this. I have my 7900X rock stable at 4.800 MHz with 0 offset AVX, adaptive +0.055 - VID 1.273v, and mesh 3.200 MHz at 1.115v. I read that is not recomended with overclock enable SVID, can give dangerous voltajes on charge. I want to enable it because Asus do not give some information like CPU W without SVID, but I do not want risks for this. What doy you think about this? Thanks


CPU SVID enabled allows communication between the cpu (requests voltages based on freq and load) and the source (supplies the vcore based on the request). You want to disable this when using manual override... since you want to override the VID request. Any dynamic voltage setting (adaptive or offset) works off the VID, so a setting of Auto is Enabled is what you want. I just use Auto. Works fine.
that said, your description of your vcore settings is not consistent with ASUS bios. +0.055V is prbably in the offset field and not the "Total Additional Turbo Voltage" field in bios.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> these are the options I have in DRAM Timings
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


dram training - Ignore. Why?
I'll check my bios later.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> I've run aida64 for 2 hours and it is stable now (I think). Couldn't find the cache setting you wanted me to increase. Can I go ahead and do the memtest now?


sure. Do you see something called "Uncore" voltage?


----------



## ducegt

There is/are open box Z270 Apex boards on NewEgg for $170 right now. One would be mine if I didn't have a wife!


----------



## Pepillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> CPU SVID enabled allows communication between the cpu (requests voltages based on freq and load) and the source (supplies the vcore based on the request). You want to disable this when using manual override... since you want to override the VID request. Any dynamic voltage setting (adaptive or offset) works off the VID, so a setting of Auto is Enabled is what you want. I just use Auto. Works fine.
> that said, your description of your vcore settings is not consistent with ASUS bios. +0.055V is prbably in the offset field and not the "Total Additional Turbo Voltage" field in bios.


Excuse me, my english is not the best of my cualities









Perhaps better with images. My bios settings:















Some benchmarks and stability test:







The VIDs reported:



But for me, the principal test is that I am working, gaming, etc. with this settings for about two months without any kind of problem and I am very happy with my "little beast"









So the question is just if You recommend me enable SVID or better do not touch something that it is working well? I want it only because I have a secondary monitor that display all information about voltajes, temperatures, fans, etc. and the CPU Power only is displayed if I set SVID to Auto or Enabled and I read that is better disabled when overclock. But you say that better ennabled if this overclock is set to adaptive, no? I do not have risk that this apply more voltaje?

Many thanks for your Help


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> CPU SVID enabled allows communication between the cpu (requests voltages based on freq and load) and the source (supplies the vcore based on the request). You want to disable this when using manual override... since you want to override the VID request. Any dynamic voltage setting (adaptive or offset) works off the VID, so a setting of Auto is Enabled is what you want. I just use Auto. Works fine.
> that said, your description of your vcore settings is not consistent with ASUS bios. +0.055V is prbably in the offset field and not the "Total Additional Turbo Voltage" field in bios.


So no problem to activate the SVID (or AUTO) with a Vcore in Adaptive Mode
No difference in use, stability or other ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> dram training - Ignore. Why?
> I'll check my bios later.


For an old configuration, I had seen that it was better to "Ignore" or "Disable" for the boot time
But I do not know what this settings really is, it's a check of the ram at boot
I have set like that, out of habit









Ok thanks for your bios settings

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> Excuse me, my english is not the best of my cualities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps better with images. My bios settings:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some benchmarks and stability test:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The VIDs reported:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for me, the principal test is that I am working, gaming, etc. with this settings for about two months without any kind of problem and I am very happy with my "little beast"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the question is just if You recommend me enable SVID or better do not touch something that it is working well? I want it only because I have a secondary monitor that display all information about voltajes, temperatures, fans, etc. and the CPU Power only is displayed if I set SVID to Auoto or Enabled and I read that is better disabled when overclock. But you say that better ennabled if this overclock is set to adaptive, no? I do not have risk that this apply more voltaje?
> 
> Many thanks for your Help


yeah, it's true that if it's not broken, don't fix it. Save your settings to as bios save slot, and try something which should work just fine an lower you idle voltage (no offset neded)
enable CPU SVID
Select a LLC level of 5
set vcore offset to Auto
set Additional Turbo mode voltage to 1.265V (this is the load voltage you already have)

You can get higher gaming clocks by using the bios AVX offsetrs. I mean, for a gaming rig, you really should use the AVX offset (2) and set the core frequency to 49 (or 50 with with a 3 avx offset). The vcore needed to run 4.9 non-AVX will not be much higher than you already have. No games use 512 (yet).


----------



## Pepillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, it's true that if it's not broken, don't fix it. Save your settings to as bios save slot, and try something which should work just fine an lower you idle voltage (no offset neded)
> enable CPU SVID
> Select a LLC level of 5
> set vcore offset to Auto
> set Additional Turbo mode voltage to 1.265V (this is the load voltage you already have)
> 
> You can get higher gaming clocks by using the bios AVX offsetrs. I mean, for a gaming rig, you really should use the AVX offset (2) and set the core frequency to 49 (or 50 with with a 3 avx offset). The vcore needed to run 4.9 non-AVX will not be much higher than you already have. No games use 512 (yet).


Ok, I will try your advice to see how it works, I'm too lazy to test stability again, but I will try it, thanks another one time









And about AVX, is not only a gaming rig and I prefer to use all the features, I know that to play perhaps would be better what you say, but I prefer 4,800 without offsets to 4,900 with offsets, a hobby of mine


----------



## tistou77

Tested with the SVID on AUTO, same indicated power (W) as Disabled in Aida64
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, it's true that if it's not broken, don't fix it. Save your settings to as bios save slot, and try something which should work just fine an lower you idle voltage (no offset neded)
> enable CPU SVID
> Select a LLC level of 5
> set vcore offset to Auto
> set Additional Turbo mode voltage to 1.265V (this is the load voltage you already have)


I have to apply a negative Offset and put a tension for "Vcore Offset" because the Vcore to apply is weaker than the VID, if I leave Vcore Offset on AUTO, the Vcore is not good (Vcore = VID)


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> CPU SVID enabled allows communication between the cpu (requests voltages based on freq and load) and the source (supplies the vcore based on the request). You want to disable this when using manual override... since you want to override the VID request. Any dynamic voltage setting (adaptive or offset) works off the VID, so a setting of Auto is Enabled is what you want. I just use Auto. Works fine.
> that said, your description of your vcore settings is not consistent with ASUS bios. +0.055V is prbably in the offset field and not the "Total Additional Turbo Voltage" field in bios.
> dram training - Ignore. Why?
> I'll check my bios later.
> sure. Do you see something called "Uncore" voltage?


No, no uncore setting. Memtest passed via USB. Took 3 hours, no errors. Should I try memtest on windows too? That's where it reboots after a while.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Tested with the SVID on AUTO, same indicated power (W) as Disabled in Aida64
> I have to apply a negative Offset and put a tension for "Vcore Offset" because the Vcore to apply is weaker than the VID, if I leave Vcore Offset on AUTO, the Vcore is not good (Vcore = VID)











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> No, no uncore setting. Memtest passed via USB. Took 3 hours, no errors. Should I try memtest on windows too? That's where it reboots after a while.


if you are referring to memtest86+, then yes, establishing ram stability in the operating environment is, IMO, no less critical that cpu stability. USe HCi Memtest, RamTest ort GSAT (in a windows BASH shell). A bad cpu OC results in BSOD, freeze etc. A bad ram OC can hopelessly corrupt an OS install.. and not give any premonitory signs along the way.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you are referring to memtest86+, then yes, establishing ram stability in the operating environment is, IMO, no less critical that cpu stability. USe HCi Memtest, RamTest ort GSAT (in a windows BASH shell). A bad cpu OC results in BSOD, freeze etc. A bad ram OC can hopelessly corrupt an OS install.. and not give any premonitory signs along the way.


do u think an unstable cache can lead to corruption just like ram?


----------



## Pepillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> yeah, it's true that if it's not broken, don't fix it. Save your settings to as bios save slot, and try something which should work just fine an lower you idle voltage (no offset neded)
> enable CPU SVID
> Select a LLC level of 5
> set vcore offset to Auto
> set Additional Turbo mode voltage to 1.265V (this is the load voltage you already have)


Yeaaa!!!

Works great, you are the best:



Less temperatures and voltages, maximum and minimum, and the same stability, great. Is curious, now the VID is set to 1.265v for all cores, before I have individually VIDs for each core on Hwinfo. But works like a charm. I will try 4.900 or 5.000


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> do u think an unstable cache can lead to corruption just like ram?


not likely. off-kilter ram can write-back bad data. cache will lilely just freeze or crash
lol- I'm talking from experience, crazy ram settings here caused Windows to forget it's name, really, it was all there, but couldn't remember it's home address. startup repair, boot repair, etc even a DISM could not rescue it. I could retrieve all the user files from the drive, but windows was borked, required a reinstalled. this happened after 6 months of crash free use.








(heck - crazy ram can bork a bios for that matter)


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> Yeaaa!!!
> 
> Less temperatures and voltages, maximum and minimum, and the same stability, great. Is curious, now the VID is set to 1.265v for all cores, before I have individually VIDs for each core on Hwinfo. But works like a charm. I will try 4.900 or 5.000


It's easier when the Vcore is higher than the VID (to make these settings)
Me, I am obliged to play on the Offset negative (Adaptive Mode), because Vcore lower than the VID
If I make an adjustment like yours in the bios, the VID being higher, then the Vcore = VID (I look with Aida64)
Besides in the bios, I must have 1.12xv (0.063 and 1.185v, if I remember correctly) to have in load 1.185v...


----------



## Pepillo

Adaptive, with CPU Override 1.210v and offset 0.055, total 1.265v, give this:



The same total 1.265v on bios, but without offset (auto) and Override 1.265v, give this:



The maximums and minimus are diferent ......


----------



## tistou77

I will re test with an Offset in AUTO (and sign +)
At this frequency the VID is how much (if you leave Vcore in AUTO for example) ?


----------



## Pepillo

Never try with the Vcore in AUTO ......

Perhaps the reason for this is that 1.210v is less than the VID, in this case I have the VID + Offset of 0.055v, more tan 1.265v. I read that if Override is less than VID not apply. With Override 1.265 and offset Auto, then is set to this 1.265v.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> Never try with the Vcore in AUTO ......
> 
> Perhaps the reason for this is that 1.210v is less than the VID, in this case I have the VID + Offset of 0.055v, more tan 1.265v. *I read that if Override is less than VID not apply*. With Override 1.265 and offset Auto, then is set to this 1.265v.


That's right, your Vcore (Override) is higher than the VID, then
Thanks, it was to be sure


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> not likely. off-kilter ram can write-back bad data. cache will lilely just freeze or crash
> lol- I'm talking from experience, crazy ram settings here caused Windows to forget it's name, really, it was all there, but couldn't remember it's home address. startup repair, boot repair, etc even a DISM could not rescue it. I could retrieve all the user files from the drive, but windows was borked, required a reinstalled. this happened after 6 months of crash free use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (heck - crazy ram can bork a bios for that matter)


borking a bios sounds scary. good thing some mobos have bios flashback ports.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> It's easier when the Vcore is higher than the VID (to make these settings)
> Me, I am obliged to play on the Offset negative (Adaptive Mode), because Vcore lower than the VID
> If I make an adjustment like yours in the bios, the VID being higher, then the Vcore = VID (I look with Aida64)
> Besides in the bios, I must have 1.12xv (0.063 and 1.185v, if I remember correctly) to have in load 1.185v...


_Additional_ CPu Turbo Mode voltage.. is _additional_. eg, Adaptive (alone) cannot be set to a voltage below the VID for a given frequency. Aside from running a negative offset as you are (with its potential issues), manual override works great and idle voltage is pretty meaningless since at iudle there is very little current flow. current kills, not voltage (within reason).








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l Nuke l*
> 
> borking a bios sounds scary. good thing some mobos have bios flashback ports.


ASUS bios recovery (crash free bios) can un-brick a board in that scenario. plz don't ask how I know.









____________________________________________________________________
we're getting a bit off topic on this memory stability thread.


----------



## l Nuke l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> _Additional_ CPu Turbo Mode voltage.. is _additional_. eg, Adaptive (alone) cannot be set to a voltage below the VID for a given frequency. Aside from running a negative offset as you are (with its potential issues), manual override works great and idle voltage is pretty meaningless since at iudle there is very little current flow. current kills, not voltage (within reason).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS bios recovery (crash free bios) can un-brick a board in that scenario. plz don't ask how I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> we're getting a bit off topic on this memory stability thread.


lmao i can imagine how u know.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> Yeaaa!!!
> 
> Works great, you are the best:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Less temperatures and voltages, maximum and minimum, and the same stability, great. Is curious, now the VID is set to 1.265v for all cores, before I have individually VIDs for each core on Hwinfo. But works like a charm. I will try 4.900 or 5.000


good job. Now let's see you spin that cpu up a bit.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> these are the options I have in DRAM Timings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


i just run this:



works fine. and ram stays solid.


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> i just run this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> works fine. and ram stays solid.


Ok thanks for your help









This option is for what ?
I asked for the MRC..., I thought I read that it disabled the "double boot" (when PSU off before)


----------



## djgar

I disable the 2 fast boot entries. Also works nice (fpr me at least). Occasionally I get some training time, usually none.


----------



## tistou77

Why disable them ?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> Why disable them ?


Don't trust fast boot stuff - means they're bypassing something


----------



## tistou77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djgar*
> 
> Don't trust fast boot stuff - means they're bypassing something


It bypass the "check" ram at boot
it's better to activate these options when the ram is really stable


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you are referring to memtest86+, then yes, establishing ram stability in the operating environment is, IMO, no less critical that cpu stability. USe HCi Memtest, RamTest ort GSAT (in a windows BASH shell). A bad cpu OC results in BSOD, freeze etc. A bad ram OC can hopelessly corrupt an OS install.. and not give any premonitory signs along the way.


HCI Memtest fails again. This is my initial problem and was the reason why I posted in this thread.

Memtest86 via USB completed without errors, it's just HCI memtest that timesout or something and then reboots after 45 mins~. Windows event log says error 4101 - Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has recovered.

Any idea?


----------



## djgar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tistou77*
> 
> It bypass the "check" ram at boot
> it's better to activate these options when the ram is really stable


It's even better to never activate them - just in case









Did I mention I'm somewhat paranoid?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> HCI Memtest fails again. This is my initial problem and was the reason why I posted in this thread.
> 
> Memtest86 via USB completed without errors, it's just HCI memtest that timesout or something and then reboots after 45 mins~. Windows event log says error 4101 - Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has recovered.
> 
> Any idea?


memtest 86 is only good to see if a stick is bad. It really does not test the ram for stability. The NV driver failure during HCi is happening with zero OC on the gpu or ram (NO XMP)? If yes, download a copy of Display Driver Uninstaller, run it (safe mode is not really needed) just clean the Nvidia dirver (should be the default after detection), select clean and restart. Reload the driver,> custom> install only the driver, audio, and physX, deselect everything else (no 3D stuff).

if this is a driver issue, and not ram... this is not the right thread.


----------



## chibi

New further optimized ram secondary/third timings submission









CPU OC - 4 hours Realbench v2.56 0 AVX Offset stable (No WHEA Errors)
Cache OC - 3 hours Aida64 Cache test stable (No WHEA Errors)

chibi --- i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8 1.365V --- 4200Mhz-C17-17-17-38-1T --- 1.425V --- VSA 1.225V --- VCCIO 1.200V --- HCI Memtest 1600%

Ram Kit - G.SKILL F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK

Edit - looks like my cpu has a high default VID for 5.0 GHz, perhaps I should change over my adaptive 1.365 voltage to manual








Edit 2 - @Silent Scone, when you have a moment, can you please remove my 8700K/3866 entry and revise with this one only? This will be my 24/7 config going forward


----------



## Phpanos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> memtest 86 is only good to see if a stick is bad. It really does not test the ram for stability. The NV driver failure during HCi is happening with zero OC on the gpu or ram (NO XMP)? If yes, download a copy of Display Driver Uninstaller, run it (safe mode is not really needed) just clean the Nvidia dirver (should be the default after detection), select clean and restart. Reload the driver,> custom> install only the driver, audio, and physX, deselect everything else (no 3D stuff).
> 
> if this is a driver issue, and not ram... this is not the right thread.


I already tried removing my drivers with DDU with safe mode.

I added tdrdelay in windows registry with the value of 20 and now I got to 1000% coverage in HCI memtest with no errors. Seems like my issue has been solved. Thank you for all the help!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phpanos*
> 
> I already tried removing my drivers with DDU with safe mode.
> 
> I added tdrdelay in windows registry with the value of 20 and now I got to 1000% coverage in HCI memtest with no errors. Seems like my issue has been solved. Thank you for all the help!


Good to see you got it resolved.


----------



## aliquiswe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> memtest 86 is only good to see if a stick is bad. It really does not test the ram for stability. The NV driver failure during HCi is happening with zero OC on the gpu or ram (NO XMP)? If yes, download a copy of Display Driver Uninstaller, run it (safe mode is not really needed) just clean the Nvidia dirver (should be the default after detection), select clean and restart. Reload the driver,> custom> install only the driver, audio, and physX, deselect everything else (no 3D stuff).
> 
> if this is a driver issue, and not ram... this is not the right thread.


Why wouldn't it be good for testing memory stability?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aliquiswe*
> 
> Why wouldn't it be good for testing memory stability?


it is fine to a degree, but there are MUCH better methods available (and free). I really think Google's 'GSAT" (google stress app test) is the best. HCi and RamTest are very good too, and cheap.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

I just wonder is my Aida64 score normal? I saw people with much faster score with the same settings.
8700k 5.2/4.2 1.39v Ram 4200 17-18-18-36-1T 1.44v
Using memory tweak mode 1 when using mode 2 the memory Write and copy speed gets really low( around 3000) What may cause this?


----------



## ogider

Other timings matters,at last for Aida.
Example


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> I just wonder is my Aida64 score normal? I saw people with much faster score with the same settings.
> 8700k 5.2/4.2 1.39v Ram 4200 17-18-18-36-1T 1.44v
> Using memory tweak mode 1 when using mode 2 the memory Write and copy speed gets really low( around 3000) What may cause this?


you should just load the 4133 preset (Raja's profile) and then adjust nothing but the primary timings and voltage needed for your kit to run 4200 (or 4266). What VSA, and VCCIO voltage?


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> you should just load the 4133 preset (Raja's profile) and then adjust nothing but the primary timings and voltage needed for your kit to run 4200 (or 4266). What VSA, and VCCIO voltage?


I think I set both at 1.25 for now.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> I just wonder is my Aida64 score normal? I saw people with much faster score with the same settings.
> 8700k 5.2/4.2 1.39v Ram 4200 17-18-18-36-1T 1.44v
> Using memory tweak mode 1 when using mode 2 the memory Write and copy speed gets really low( around 3000) What may cause this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you should just load the 4133 preset (Raja's profile) and then adjust nothing but the primary timings and voltage needed for your kit to run 4200 (or 4266). What VSA, and VCCIO voltage?
Click to expand...

Where do I find Raja's presets?


----------



## Dragonsyph

Is 3200mhz c14 good enough for gaming and web stuff, or should I spend the time to learn how to OC ram and aim for higher MHZ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KedarWolf*
> 
> Where do I find Raja's presets?


If the Formula has them... dram timing page, right at the top. load the 1.4V 4133 profile.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> If the Formula has them... dram timing page, right at the top. load the 1.4V 4133 profile.



^^ Memory presets


----------



## encrypted11

Got a little more out my kit, loosened some tRDWR a little.

encrypted11--i78700K VCore 1.376V @5.3/4.9---4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----VDIMM 1.4v (BIOS) ---SA 1.10v (BIOS)---IO 1.05V (BIOS) Stressapptest (Mint 18.1)----2 Hour
Same kit: Samsung B-die G.SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW


----------



## encrypted11

Missed the timings, RTL and IO-Ls are on auto as usual


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 8700k @ 5.0 / 4.4 --- 4400Mhz C18-19-19-42-2T - 1.40v Vdimm --- 1.25v SA --- 1.15v IO ---- Ram Test 1 Hour.

G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZA

(Voltages as set in Bios.)

Moved my 8700k and Ram back to the Caselabs S3 and Asrock Z370 Gaming itx board.

Even with the latest 1.5 bios Vdimm SA and IO voltages are still a bit restricted for fine tuning. Had to use CR2.


----------



## encrypted11

1.35V SA, 1.2V IO, 1.5V VDIMM are fairly restrictive indeed.

But by far, this I haven't had any cold booting issues or training drift problems with this particular board.
It's still the Z370 ITX that holds the highest attainable power limits on the core at 200W.
As long as you're within the BIOS limits (unfortunately), this board just consistently ticks like a clock in daily use at least.


----------



## Pepillo

Hello. I have 32 Gb 8x4 Gskill 3200C14 working very well at 3800 C16, 1.395 V, Ramtest stable for hours. But you know, you always want more and I'd like to put them to 4000.
The problem is that 4000 not get to pass the BIOS, gets caught in the post. I have tried everything that occurred to me, voltages up to 1.45 V, upload the VCCSA and VCCIO, many different Timmings combinations, all without result, does not start. Any suggestions?


----------



## MattBaneLM

probably would need more vdimm than 1.45 is my thought first...
all are different when tweaking the io/sa which is enough to drive ya to drinking... oh yeah.. too late.

one of my kits, a gskill b-die 3600 kit was doing a nice 3600- 15-15-15-28-1t with semi tight subs 24/7 at 1.45 vdimm as was the plan to get the best from that voltage.
re-testing my 4133 cl19 kit now in the new bios for the apex
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> Hello. I have 32 Gb 8x4 Gskill 3200C14 working very well at 3800 C16, 1.395 V, Ramtest stable for hours. But you know, you always want more and I'd like to put them to 4000.
> The problem is that 4000 not get to pass the BIOS, gets caught in the post. I have tried everything that occurred to me, voltages up to 1.45 V, upload the VCCSA and VCCIO, many different Timmings combinations, all without result, does not start. Any suggestions?


'
probably would need more vdimm than 1.45 is my thought first...
all are different when tweaking the io/sa which is enough to drive ya to drinking... oh yeah.. too late.

one of my kits, a gskill b-die 3600 kit was doing a nice 3600- 15-15-15-28-1t with semi tight subs 24/7 at 1.45 vdimm as was the plan to get the best from that voltage.
re-testing my 4133 cl19 kit now in the new bios for the apex


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> Hello. I have 32 Gb 8x4 Gskill 3200C14 working very well at 3800 C16, 1.395 V, Ramtest stable for hours. But you know, you always want more and I'd like to put them to 4000.
> The problem is that 4000 not get to pass the BIOS, gets caught in the post. I have tried everything that occurred to me, voltages up to 1.45 V, upload the VCCSA and VCCIO, many different Timmings combinations, all without result, does not start. Any suggestions?


which motherboard?


----------



## Pepillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> which motherboard?


On my signature:

Asus Prime X299 Deluxe - 7900X - GSkill Ripjaws V 3200C14 (Samsung B-Die)


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> On my signature:
> 
> Asus Prime X299 Deluxe - 7900X - GSkill Ripjaws V 3200C14 (Samsung B-Die)


Have you tied with just two stick of memory? Just to share my experience.I had a set of tridentz 3200 cl14 rgb and the highest clock I can get out of it on an asus z370 apex is 3800. I know some people say it's samsung bdie and they did get higher clock out of them but not for me. I then picked up a set of 4266 cl19. It boots up with xmp and runs stable at 4266 17-18-18-38-1t for now.


----------



## Pepillo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> Just to share my experience.I had a set of tridentz 3200 cl14 rgb and the highest clock I can get out of it on an asus z370 apex is 3800. I know some people say it's samsung bdie and they did get higher clock out of them but not for me. I then picked up a set of 4266 cl19. It boots up with xmp and runs stable at 4266 17-18-18-38-1t for now.


Yes, that's what I think, just that they do not give for more and the 4000 are impossible in my kit despite many succeed.


----------



## TurricanM3

Apex with LPX4400:

http://abload.de/image.php?img=cachemem4400cl17-18-1y9pfq.png

http://abload.de/image.php?img=hci4400cl17_200yhptf.png

I didn't test if i can lower the VCCSA/VCCIO yet.


----------



## KedarWolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepillo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dbq5anlxj*
> 
> Just to share my experience.I had a set of tridentz 3200 cl14 rgb and the highest clock I can get out of it on an asus z370 apex is 3800. I know some people say it's samsung bdie and they did get higher clock out of them but not for me. I then picked up a set of 4266 cl19. It boots up with xmp and runs stable at 4266 17-18-18-38-1t for now.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's what I think, just that they do not give for more and the 4000 are impossible in my kit despite many succeed.
Click to expand...

I had 4133MHZ stable on my cl14 3200 b-dies. 2T though.









Waiting on my 8700k RMA to see what my new chip can do.









:


----------



## Silent Scone

Apologies for the lack of updates to the table. After making a start, I went on a brief holiday. Will endeavor to update the rest of the entries this week


----------



## dbq5anlxj

“the easiest way to tighten the RTL/IO numbers is to set the RTL Initial Value to the lowest number that allows the memory to POST, then, after the system has booted successfully, to set the IO Latency Offset value higher one cycle number at a time (iteratively) until the lowest RTL/IO values are found after a reboot”

when I use the above method. I set RTL Initial Value to 69 or 68 the first time it boots up perfectly fine but when I restart the system it won't post some time stuck on code 49 or 06 even 55. What's a good starting number for RTL Initial Value ? thanks


----------



## Silent Scone

dbq5anlxj said:


> “the easiest way to tighten the RTL/IO numbers is to set the RTL Initial Value to the lowest number that allows the memory to POST, then, after the system has booted successfully, to set the IO Latency Offset value higher one cycle number at a time (iteratively) until the lowest RTL/IO values are found after a reboot”
> 
> when I use the above method. I set RTL Initial Value to 69 or 68 the first time it boots up perfectly fine but when I restart the system it won't post some time stuck on code 49 or 06 even 55. What's a good starting number for RTL Initial Value ? thanks


More context needed on your part, however, the above quote is really only an adequate method for benchmarking purposes. Usually, there is little manoeuvrability in these values. Especially if you're not willing to pump the DIMMs with voltage.


----------



## ogider

Ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4133 16-17-17-28-290 1T --- 1.48V --- SA 1.224V --- IO 1.200V --- Stressapptest --1 Hour-- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ


----------



## encrypted11

The memory copy rate seemed concerning to me. It's at least a tenth of where it probably should be on GSAT at those memory speeds at high 30000MB/s or hitting the 40000MB/s mark.

To put this into perspective, Raja'a Z170 + 6700K 2x8GB memory copy rates are ~35000MB/s at 3600MHz C17-18-18-2T on page 1.


----------



## ogider

No idea tbh.
Other tests seems fine.Aida,rendering ones etc.
Maybe something with my Windows 10’s Bash Shell.


----------



## JMTH

Have you updated your BASH? I think the command is sudo get-apt update, then to update the installed programs is sudo apt-get upgrade


----------



## ogider

I just did
Also doing this commmand
stressapptest -W -M 12228 -s 3600 --pause_delay 14400

Will post results after 1 hour 

Edit.
Did short test and still 3-4000MB/s
Something with windows.Gonna stick with HCI then.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

With Aida64, when there is an error with the Cache stress, it's just related to the Cache's voltage ? Or maybe other ?
Same with RamTest set on RNG : XORWOW (ok with Default)

Thanks

EDIT: Vcore too, it will seem


----------



## Jpmboy

if it's failing the AID64 cache test the most likely culprit is... cache voltage. If that can't solve it, vccin, vccio.. etc. Finally, some samples just require you to lower the cache multi as the only way to really get it stable.


----------



## truehighroller1

Subscribed, can't find subscribe to thread on new site or I'm. Blind sorry. I ordered the following memory today.

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR 

from Newegg and it just shipped!! I'll be posting on here soon. Love this thread!


----------



## djgar

truehighroller1 said:


> Subscribed, can't find subscribe to thread on new site or I'm. Blind sorry. I ordered the following memory today.
> 
> G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
> 
> from Newegg and it just shipped!! I'll be posting on here soon. Love this thread!


Subscribe at the top in Thread Tools


----------



## l Nuke l

Is there any benefit in setting the max memory setting in windows to 400? Or is this only beneficial when benchmarking? Will a 24/7 overclock benefit from this tweak?


----------



## ogider

Win10 restore point helped.
Ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4133 16-17-17-28 1T --- 1.48V --- SA 1.224V --- IO 1.208V --- Stressapptest --1 Hour-- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ

Mainboard add some more voltage. I gave values from HWiNFO
stressapptest -W -M 12228 -s 3600

start and end


----------



## Menthol

l Nuke l said:


> Is there any benefit in setting the max memory setting in windows to 400? Or is this only beneficial when benchmarking? Will a 24/7 overclock benefit from this tweak?


I believe only for specific benchmarks with very tight timings, I would leave alone for daily use


----------



## Menthol

ogider said:


> Win10 restore point helped.
> Ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4133 16-17-17-28 1T --- 1.48V --- SA 1.224V --- IO 1.208V --- Stressapptest --1 Hour-- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ
> 
> Mainboard add some more voltage. I gave values from HWiNFO
> stressapptest -W -M 12228 -s 3600
> 
> start and end


Your SA and IO voltages, is that the entered value in bios or read from an app? Seems very low to me


----------



## ogider

I set the voltage in biost:
VCCIO: 1.190
VCCSA:1.210
DRAM Voltage: 1.465

But inside Windows, every software gives me a bit higher values than that in bios.
I guess this mainboard add somethink extra.
HWiNFO values.
VCCIO: 1.208
VCCSA:1.224
DRAM Voltage: 1.480V


----------



## l Nuke l

Menthol said:


> I believe only for specific benchmarks with very tight timings, I would leave alone for daily use


 That's what I figured. Gonna leave it be.


----------



## Jpmboy

l Nuke l said:


> Is there any benefit in setting the max memory setting in windows to 400? Or is this only beneficial when benchmarking? Will a 24/7 overclock benefit from this tweak?


yeah, as menthol said, limiting the OS to that little memory (400? you mean 4096 - right?) will cause heavy use of the page file, and more importantly, unless you are fluent with the BCD commands in recovery mode, may result in Windows 10 being unbootable. 

if ya get a problem with processor number and truncated memory... save these commnds for use from the C: prompt in recovery mode:

_bcdedit/deletevalue {default} numproc
bcdedit/deletevalue {default} truncatememory_


----------



## l Nuke l

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, as menthol said, limiting the OS to that little memory (400? you mean 4096 - right?) will cause heavy use of the page file, and more importantly, unless you are fluent with the BCD commands in recovery mode, may result in Windows 10 being unbootable.
> 
> if ya get a problem with processor number and truncated memory... save these commnds for use from the C: prompt in recovery mode:
> 
> _bcdedit/deletevalue {default} numproc
> bcdedit/deletevalue {default} truncatememory_


Good to know, thanks!


----------



## encrypted11

ogider said:


> Win10 restore point helped.
> Ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4133 16-17-17-28 1T --- 1.48V --- SA 1.224V --- IO 1.208V --- Stressapptest --1 Hour-- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ
> 
> Mainboard add some more voltage. I gave values from HWiNFO
> stressapptest -W -M 12228 -s 3600
> 
> start and end


Good one, copy rates look about right now


----------



## ELIAS-EH

*X99 Bios 1701 vs 1801*

Hello everyone

i noticed a decrease in memory benchmark between bios 1701 and 1801
did anyone noticed the same thing ?
refer to bellow images for comparaison

I7 6900K 4.2
X99 STRIX
DDR4 3200 C16


----------



## jamz

I'm kinda stuck here, I'm on a 4.8Ghz 8700k with 16gig G.skill 3600mhz CL16, and i want to reach 1T on the command rate, but i get stuck on the post screen every time. 1.325v Vcore and 1.2 IO and SA. Am i doing something wrong or is my kit just bad?


----------



## djgar

jamz said:


> I'm kinda stuck here, I'm on a 4.8Ghz 8700k with 16gig G.skill 3600mhz CL16, and i want to reach 1T on the command rate, but i get stuck on the post screen every time. 1.325v Vcore and 1.2 IO and SA. Am i doing something wrong or is my kit just bad?


What's your vdimm? Have you tried increasing it?


----------



## Silent Scone

ELIAS-EH said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> i noticed a decrease in memory benchmark between bios 1701 and 1801
> did anyone noticed the same thing ?
> refer to bellow images for comparaison
> 
> I7 6900K 4.2
> X99 STRIX
> DDR4 3200 C16


Possible some of the rules changed. You can either tune or use flashback, if there's no other reason for you updating the BIOS.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

is there anything eles I can do to improve the latency?

8700k 5.1/5.0 1.376v 4266 17-18-18-38-1t 1.45v IO/SA 1.25


----------



## encrypted11

4266 kit incoming, hoping it does better than my 3200.
F4-4266C19D-16GTZKW


----------



## Jpmboy

dbq5anlxj said:


> is there anything eles I can do to improve the latency?
> 
> 8700k 5.1/5.0 1.376v 4266 17-18-18-38-1t 1.45v IO/SA 1.25


not much if anything meaningful at all at 4266.
5.2/4.8, vdimm @ 1.425V


----------



## KedarWolf

I've got some good news and some bad news.

Intel has approved my RMA replacement of my 8700k. The first PCI-E lane would only work at 2X in two different motherboards and my placeholder i3 works fine at 16x. 

The bad news, they say they are out of stock and the estimated date they can ship it out is Feb. 28th. 

Hopefully it'll be a good chip and I have a Dr. Delid to delid it already. I also have Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut.

BTW, if you see the estimated dates on shipping the Dr. Delid is one or two months down the road according to their website, when I ordered mine they shipped the same day parcel post and only took 3-4 days to get here from Europe to Canada.


----------



## KedarWolf

I've got some good news and some bad news.

Intel has approved my RMA replacement of my 8700k. The first PCI-E lane would only work at 2X in two different motherboards and my placeholder i3 works fine at 16x. 

The bad news, they say they are out of stock and the estimated date they can ship it out is Feb. 28th. 

Hopefully it'll be a good chip and I have a Dr. Delid to delid it already. I also have Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut.

BTW, if you see the estimated dates on shipping the Dr. Delid is one or two months down the road according to their website, when I ordered mine they shipped the same day parcel post and only took 3-4 days to get here from Europe to Canada.


----------



## encrypted11

Might consider requesting that you receive full refund from the L2 support or specialist you've been assigned to. So you could get a new retail chip, since the RMA depot inventories are completely plundered.


----------



## KedarWolf

encrypted11 said:


> Might consider requesting that you receive full refund from the L2 support or specialist you've been assigned to. So you could get a new retail chip, since the RMA depot inventories are completely plundered.


Not sure that would work as I bought it from a third party retail store.

But I don't mind waiting, I'm using an i3 8100 for now and it meets/exceeds what I expected from it.


----------



## KedarWolf

encrypted11 said:


> Might consider requesting that you receive full refund from the L2 support or specialist you've been assigned to. So you could get a new retail chip, since the RMA depot inventories are completely plundered.


Actually,

Got a shipping notice tonight from Intel, it's on its way.


----------



## KedarWolf

Interesting my i3 8100 will do 4000HMZ on the memory stable.

Let RAM test run overnight.

Also passed an hour of GSAT. 

But I get my RMA 8700k today!


----------



## toncij

Has anyone been able to get those new Gskill kits? It seems impossible.


----------



## l Nuke l

toncij said:


> Has anyone been able to get those new Gskill kits? It seems impossible.


 The 4266 cl17 kit? I hope it becomes available as a 2x8gb kit.


----------



## truehighroller1

l Nuke l said:


> The 4266 cl17 kit? I hope it becomes available as a 2x8gb kit.




I just purchased these the other week. 

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR

I plugged them in last night and they booted right up to the xmp profile. I need to play with them more though as I only played with them for about half an hour last night. I think I purchased the last set on Newegg because now they show out of stock.


----------



## encrypted11

KedarWolf said:


> Actually,
> 
> Got a shipping notice tonight from Intel, it's on its way.


Ha awesome!


----------



## encrypted11

Another data point
encrypted11--i78700K VCore 1.312V @5.2/4.5---4400Mhz-C18-19-19-39-1T----VDIMM 1.45V (BIOS) ---SA 1.20V (BIOS)---IO 1.17V (BIOS) Stressapptest (Mint 18.1)----1 Hour
G.SKILL TridentZ F4-4266C19D-16GTZKW

Early runs, but C17 4266 seems impossible on this kit (tried up to 1.5V), I've not seen 4133 C17-1T GSAT stable either that would occur on my 3200 C14 kit. But it clocks better C18+ 4133 and above just fine it seems.


----------



## truehighroller1

So I was finally able to play with my new memory last night a little. I downloaded the asrock timing app you guys use and it is not reading my timings right for some reason. I was able to get my memory to run at 4000mhz 17-17-17-37-1 at 1.35v I had the cpu running at 5ghz 1.325v with the cache voltage set to 1.2v plus a offset of 125mv. My lateny was coming out to be 61ns in Aida. I need to learn what to tweak memory timing wise still.


----------



## HvacGuru

Need a little help. Any idea why my write speeds are so low? Thanks in advance!


----------



## djgar

HvacGuru said:


> Need a little help. Any idea why my write speeds are so low? Thanks in advance!


Wrong forum - this is for memory stability. Try your drive's core forum.


----------



## Jpmboy

HvacGuru said:


> Need a little help. Any idea why my write speeds are so low? Thanks in advance!


tRTP, tFAW and tWCL are very loose for one. And then 2T. Try 1T and go from there. post the kit's SPD tab in cpuZ


----------



## djgar

djgar said:


> Wrong forum - this is for memory stability. Try your drive's core forum.





Jpmboy said:


> tRTP, tFAW and tWCL are very loose for one. And then 2T. Try 1T and go from there. post the kit's SPD tab in cpuZ


I need a neurologist ...


----------



## HvacGuru

Jpmboy said:


> tRTP, tFAW and tWCL are very loose for one. And then 2T. Try 1T and go from there. post the kit's SPD tab in cpuZ


I tried 1T with no success yet. Thanks.


----------



## HvacGuru

djgar said:


> I need a neurologist ...


I wasn't going to comment lol


----------



## djgar

HvacGuru said:


> I wasn't going to comment lol


Your avatar totally derailed me!


----------



## Jpmboy

HvacGuru said:


> I tried 1T with no success yet. Thanks.


these timings work with eachother (*some are dependent on others). What MB? what exact ram kit (the SPD tab I asked for)? 1T was unsuccessful at what?


----------



## HvacGuru

Jpmboy said:


> these timings work with each other (*some are dependent on others). What MB? what exact ram kit (the SPD tab I asked for)? 1T was unsuccessful at what?


1t would not boot into windows.


----------



## Jpmboy

voltage? 1T will cost ~ 25mV vs 2T as a rule of thumb. Show more info if you want help. :wth:


----------



## HvacGuru

Jpmboy said:


> voltage? 1T will cost ~ 25mV vs 2T as a rule of thumb. Show more info if you want help. :wth:


This is where i am at now(still running). What else do you need? Thanks again!


----------



## truehighroller1

This is where I am right now. I will hit back with my memory timings shortly. Any advice is welcome and thank you ahead of time.


----------



## encrypted11

Link to ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.4
http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4).zip


----------



## truehighroller1

encrypted11 said:


> Link to ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.4
> http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4).zip


Thank you so much. I finally got it to work with that newer version. Timings attached. If you guys think I should lower some timings by all means chime in please.

Thank you again!


----------



## Jpmboy

HvacGuru said:


> This is where i am at now(still running). What else do you need? Thanks again!


try these settings with your current freqency and voltage, leave it at 17-17-17. Amd if you have applied XMP, clrcmos to remove the non-bios XMP-based changes (and there are a bunch)

I'm pretty sure the 17-19-19 4000 sticks are E-die (not B-die) ICs, they may not cooperate as well. 17-17-17 may be an issue, if it is, try 17-19-19 and tighten the rest. Unfortunately 32GB of ram may ned 2T, but other timings can help the read speed issue.










truehighroller1 said:


> This is where I am right now. I will hit back with my memory timings shortly. Any advice is welcome and thank you ahead of time.


same - the above timings may help - your's are B-die, so they should do the same as the 44ooC19 kit I have... which really are the same as the 3600c15 kits I've used on this board. 


encrypted11 said:


> Link to ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.4
> http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4).zip


ninja'd ! :specool:


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> try these settings with your current freqency and voltage, leave it at 17-17-17.


So much better right off the bat. I noticed that my memory was using some different timings by default for the 2133 profile after failing to boot and used those and voila..

Thank you!. I will look at tweaking more settings shortly. I'm just slowly working towards my settling point on this setup at this point. Thank you again seriously!


----------



## dbq5anlxj

today I were curious about what will happen if I set the io and sa voltage too low. I set both at 1.10 in bios I got a code 06 then I bump up my Io to 1.14 and my sa to 1.22 ( hwinfo64 voltage)system boots up fine with 4266 17-18-18-38-1t 1.45v 8700k 5.1/5.0. I then passed two hour memtest and two hours realbench hwinfo no error. what's the benefit of lower or higher io and sa voltage? will higher io sa voltage lead to better memory overclocking ? or there is a sweet spot? and are those two voltage have some effect on cache overclocking? thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

The IMC is run via SA, IO too. Cache OC can limit the ram overclock frequency. Yes, with VSA, more is not always better, and can cause necessary wear on the part.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Jpmboy said:


> The IMC is run via SA, IO too. Cache OC can limit the ram overclock frequency. Yes, with VSA, more is not always better, and can cause necessary wear on the part.


okay thanks. I think I have the same kit as yours before that I have the 4266 cl19 none rgb one now I'm using the 4400 cl19. They both can boots up by using xmp but the best I can do with both kit so far is 4266 17-18-18-38. Do you think the 4600 cl 19 will do better? (I'm using the apex board as well).


----------



## Jpmboy

dbq5anlxj said:


> okay thanks. I think I have the same kit as yours before that I have the 4266 cl19 none rgb one now I'm using the 4400 cl19. They both can boots up by using xmp but the best I can do with both kit so far is 4266 17-18-18-38. Do you think the 4600 cl 19 will do better? (I'm using the apex board as well).


running above 4266c17 - stable - requires all the parts to be capable. NOt all CPUs (or mother board samples) can.


----------



## ChaosAD

Finally managed to achieve 60+k read/write. My crapy setup can run 1T at 3800 16-16-16 max stable and bench at 16-15-15 and 2T at 4000 17-17-17 stable and bench at 17-16-16. Anything else just give an error and doesn't even boot.


----------



## darkinners

I was using Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD64GX4M4C3000C15 64GB kit (4X16GB) in my X299 system
It passed XMP clock and 3200 16-16-16-36 in Karhu RamTest 6400% none error was found.
But my computer won't POST in cold boot if I enable XMP in BIOS (Manual setting however rock solid)
I am a bit skeptical and have very serious OCD, since this RAM kit doesn't list in my MB QVL compatibility list.
I thought that might be a compatibility issue.

So I bought a new memory kit it's a GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3200C14Q2-128GTZR （8x16GB 3200Mhz 14-14-14-34)
I bought this kit because it's on the MB's QVL list.
Installed them and tested it did solve the "XMP = no post in cold boot" problem.
However these kit won't even pass 1000% in Karhu RamTest. (found error in 16-660% randomly)

My CPU and MB are
-Intel Core i9 7940X
-ASUS Prime X200 Deluxe


I tried to revert back CPU and Cache overclock to STOCK (was OC to 4.4Ghz cores(1.162v) and 3Ghz Cache(1.1v))
Tried many different combination of following settings in BIOS

Core Clock 3.7-4.4Ghz
CPU Cache 2.7-3.0Ghz
VCCIN 1.85-2.00V
Vcore 1.12-1.20V
Cache voltage: 1.05-1.18V
VCCIO 1-1.25V
VCCSA 0.88-1.20V
LLC - Level 3 - Level 7
RAM current: 100-130%
RAM voltage : 1.35V - 1.38V

Only thing I've yet to try is install only one stick of RAM each time and run the Karhu RamTest(This takes a lot of time and I won't have the time to test it until next week)


Do you guys think I got a dud kit or probably my CPU have faulty IMC couldn't handle 8 sticks of RAM or even Motherboard problem?


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf----i7-8700k @5.1/4.9---4266Mhz-C119-20-20-40-2T----1.47v----SA 1.2375v/VCCIO 1.2375----Stressapptest----1 Hour----Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies


































BIOS Settings In Spoiler



Spoiler




















































































IMG]https://i.imgur.com/0bOs6Le.png[/IMG]


----------



## ichee

Hi.

I managed to get an overclock of 3733Mhz 100% stable within Windows, but have been having intermittent issues with post failing with code 29. The only thing that seems to help, short of reducing memory speed to below 3000Mhz, is raising Receiver DQ Pre-Emphasis and De-Emphasis to above 1.25. Is this a common solution, and is it alright to raise it that high or higher?
Below are a few screenshots to help.

Thanks.


----------



## swddeluxx

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf----i7-8700k @5.1/4.9---4266Mhz-C119-20-20-40-2T----1.47v----SA 1.2375v/VCCIO 1.2375----Stressapptest----1 Hour----Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BIOS Settings In Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG]https://i.imgur.com/0bOs6Le.png[/IMG]



Realy nice Kedar!

and your DiGiPower Settings?, btw. LLC Level?


----------



## Enterprise24

ogider said:


> Win10 restore point helped.
> Ogider -- [email protected] 4.8/4.5 --- Asrock Taichi Z370 --- 4133 16-17-17-28 1T --- 1.48V --- SA 1.224V --- IO 1.208V --- Stressapptest --1 Hour-- F4-3200C14D-16GTZ
> 
> Mainboard add some more voltage. I gave values from HWiNFO
> stressapptest -W -M 12228 -s 3600
> 
> start and end


What is your BIOS version ? Mine seem to can't boot with 4000-4133 1T with Taichi. The memory is Panram Ninja-V 3000Mhz 15-17-17-35. It is not a high end kit but it got verified on MOCF and M10A that 4133 17-17-17-37-1T is stable.
PS. I am on BIOS 1.40 (already removed from official site...unknown reason). Best I can do is 4133 17-17-17-37-2T.


----------



## ogider

1.4 atm.
But with 1.3 I had same results.
I was able load windows and do short aida tests etc. with 4400MHz with my 3200C14.
But timings was very very high.

Unfortunately, I will not tell you how you can get a higher clock. Only that it is a tiring job to get the proper settings.

virtually no settings given by colleagues on this subject did not work for me. Always something had to be changed so that the mainboard went through a bios start at last.
ps.
Bios was removed bc Intel did "bad" job with this Meltdown and Spectre bios fix. And there be another approach with bios fix.


----------



## KedarWolf

swddeluxx said:


> Realy nice Kedar!
> 
> and your DiGiPower Settings?, btw. LLC Level?


I'll add a screenshot when I get home, on evening shift tonight. 

Current Load line Calibration '6'
CPU Current Capability '140%'
Memory Current Capability '130%'
CPU Power Duty Control 'T.Probe'
CPU Power Phase Control 'Extreme'


----------



## encrypted11

Also check if your RTLs and IOLs are proper via ASRock timing configurator. 

At some point of tuning I've had the bios mess up so badly it wouldn't POST loop even with a regular CMOS reset or reset to defaults, battery removal etc had to be done before a BIOS reflash and things would work normally again.



Enterprise24 said:


> What is your BIOS version ? Mine seem to can't boot with 4000-4133 1T with Taichi. The memory is Panram Ninja-V 3000Mhz 15-17-17-35. It is not a high end kit but it got verified on MOCF and M10A that 4133 17-17-17-37-1T is stable.
> PS. I am on BIOS 1.40 (already removed from official site...unknown reason). Best I can do is 4133 17-17-17-37-2T.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf said:


> I'll add a screenshot when I get home, on evening shift tonight.
> 
> Current Load line Calibration '6'
> CPU Current Capability '140%'
> Memory Current Capability '130%'
> CPU Power Duty Control 'T.Probe'
> CPU Power Phase Control 'Extreme'


----------



## KedarWolf

I'm really happy with these results.

Had to raise tRFC from 351 to 371 to get 17-17-17-32 2T, would only do 19-17-17-33 2T until I did but I got the best AIDA bench I've ever gotten on this RAM. 

I ran stressapptest, no errors iniitally, but going to do a full hour when I go to bed so I can update my entry here. :h34r-smi

I do think my Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 is limited to 2T though. This on two different 8700k's now and I read someone else could only do 2T on there Ripjaws 5 but their Trident Z CL14 3200 would do 1T. 

Maybe tax time I buy the new 4700 G.Skill and try that at the end of the month. But I'll likely settle for what I have to buy a second 1080 Ti for some high-end games coming out later this year. I doubt I'll do significantly better with better RAM. 

Edit: I know how to get a second 1080 Ti FE for $699 USD even with the crypto problems.

Anyone want to know the trick in NA or even the UK in EU for MSRP let me know. I've discussed it on the 1080 TI Owner's Club a half a dozen times. :drunken:


----------



## swddeluxx

Thanks for answer *Kedar*


----------



## KedarWolf

Update
KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/4.9---4266Mhz-C19-17-17-33-2T---1.47v---SA 1.2375v---VCCIO 1.2375---Stressapptest---1 Hour
G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.


























*BIOS Settings In Spoiler*



Spoiler


----------



## encrypted11

Excellent gsat copy rates at ~48000MB/s! :specool:


----------



## KedarWolf

encrypted11 said:


> Excellent gsat copy rates at ~48000MB/s! :specool:


Are you being serious, I mean is that good, or are you being sarcastic and it was having issues?


----------



## encrypted11

Aren't the typicals when overclocked typically between 30000-40000MB/s on this platform?


----------



## KedarWolf

*More VCCIO and SA is NOT always better. *

I never got 4266MHZ GSAT stable at 17-17-17-34 2T until I *dropped* from 1.2375v on both to 1.225v. :h34r-smi

Mess around with yours if you're getting GSAT errors.

If it's wrong buying a cheap M.2 to have Linux on only for GSAT I don't want to be right.


----------



## djgar

KedarWolf said:


> *More VCCIO and SA is NOT always better. *
> 
> I never got 4266MHZ GSAT stable at 17-17-17-34 2T until I *dropped* from 1.2375v on both to 1.225v. :h34r-smi
> 
> Mess around with yours if you're getting GSAT errors.
> 
> If it's wrong buying a cheap M.2 to have Linux on only for GSAT I don't want to be right.


I run GSAT off a cheap SATA :thumb:


----------



## KedarWolf

Update - Tightened Timings, Cache Up to 5.1GHZ, Cache AIDA64 Stable. :drum:

KedarWolf----i7-8700k @5.1/5.1---4266Mhz-17-17-17-32-2T----1.47v----SA 1.225v/VCCIO 1.225v----Stressapptest----1 Hour---- 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies


----------



## Jpmboy

Alas, I fear our OP is on sabbatical. So don;t expect table updates.


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> Alas, I fear our OP is on sabbatical. So don;t expect table updates.


Well deserved :thumb:


----------



## toncij

KedarWolf said:


> Update - Tightened Timings, Cache Up to 5.1GHZ, Cache AIDA64 Stable. :drum:
> 
> KedarWolf----i7-8700k @5.1/5.1---4266Mhz-17-17-17-32-2T----1.47v----SA 1.225v/VCCIO 1.225v----Stressapptest----1 Hour---- 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies


Temps, cooling and AIDA64 mem test?


----------



## Jpmboy

spoilers.. guys, use spoilers plz!
:cheers:


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> spoilers.. guys, use spoilers plz!
> :cheers:


Use spoilers on three pictures?

I used spoilers on my BIOS settings and oc.net has wrecked the add pictures option. 

Edit: Two pictures actually.


----------



## KedarWolf

toncij said:


> Temps, cooling and AIDA64 mem test?


I get around 74C but need to redo my delid.

360 RAD on CPU, EKWB Evo Supremacy block.


----------



## djgar

KedarWolf said:


> Use spoilers on three pictures?
> 
> I used spoilers on my BIOS settings and oc.net has wrecked the add pictures option.
> 
> Edit: Two pictures actually.


Two GIANT pictures


----------



## Kimir

It's probably all tiny for him on 4k monitor(s).


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Use spoilers on three pictures?
> 
> I used spoilers on my BIOS settings and oc.net has wrecked the add pictures option.
> 
> Edit: Two pictures actually.


Yeah, this new format is very crude and I'm not sure any amount of bug polishing can clean it up. that said...
27 inch 1400P. Forget about using a phone in desktop mode. 

I mean I'm an old guy, but don't need the big button phones yet. :bigeyedsm


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, this new format is very crude and I'm not sure any amount of bug polishing can clean it up. that said...
> 27 inch 1400P. Forget about using a phone in desktop mode.
> 
> I mean I'm an old guy, but don't need the big button phones yet. :bigeyedsm


Another old guy - 32" @ 3840x2160 

That "fill the browser" thing does it ...


----------



## Kimir

And here I am at work with that crappy panel PC with 1600x900 resolution.
Lemme scroll through that one picture. lol


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, this new format is very crude and I'm not sure any amount of bug polishing can clean it up. that said...
> 27 inch 1400P. Forget about using a phone in desktop mode.
> 
> I mean I'm an old guy, but don't need the big button phones yet. :bigeyedsm


Agreed 27" 1440p is best for me as well. I have a 165Hz refresh at home and a 60 Hz refresh at work both are IPS panels. This new format stinks where are my rigs? Having to search and use old Emojis. Not having the old spoiler alert is a pain in the #^$! This is the same format used on the AVS forum things got better over time but will never be as good as the old site.


----------



## KedarWolf

Kimir said:


> And here I am at work with that crappy panel PC with 1600x900 resolution.
> Lemme scroll through that one picture. lol


I'm going to resize all my pictures so they are not massively big.

So,

New add picture procedure. 

1) Take screenshot, crop because I use dual screens.
2) Batch resize pictures using online picture resizer. Download said pictures.
3) Batch upload to Imgur, right click on each individual picture, copy image address, add to oc.net using the Add Picture option. Repeat for each individual picture until they are all uploaded.

EZ Peezee, right?


----------



## swddeluxx

My Result with Corsair Vengeance LPX (CMK16GX4M2F4400C19) Ram

4266 - 17-17-17-32-2T

5.2 GHz - 5 GHz Uncore with 1.36Vcore (Adaptive Mode) VCCIO&VSA 1.225V
Mainboard: Asus Maximus X Hero (Bios 1003)


----------



## mouacyk

swddeluxx said:


> My Result with Corsair Vengeance LPX (CMK16GX4M2F4400C19) Ram
> 
> 4266 - 17-17-17-32-2T
> 
> 5.2 GHz - 5 GHz Uncore with 1.36Vcore (Adaptive Mode) VCCIO&VSA 1.225V
> Mainboard: Asus Maximus X Hero (Bios 1003)


What voltage for DRAM?


----------



## Jpmboy

swddeluxx said:


> My Result with Corsair Vengeance LPX (CMK16GX4M2F4400C19) Ram
> 
> 4266 - 17-17-17-32-2T
> 
> 5.2 GHz - 5 GHz Uncore with 1.36Vcore (Adaptive Mode) VCCIO&VSA 1.225V
> Mainboard: Asus Maximus X Hero (Bios 1003)


stability? HCi Memtest 1000%?


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> I'm going to resize all my pictures so they are not massively big.
> 
> So,
> 
> New add picture procedure.
> 
> 1) Take screenshot, crop because I use dual screens.
> 2) Batch resize pictures using online picture resizer. Download said pictures.
> 3) Batch upload to Imgur, right click on each individual picture, copy image address, add to oc.net using the Add Picture option. Repeat for each individual picture until they are all uploaded.
> 
> EZ Peezee, right?


I think they have resized the thumbnails a bibt so that they are actually a good preview. I do agree tho, there is no reason you shold have to jump thru such hoops just to post a screenshot! :wth:


----------



## Kimir

Huh oh, so the forum doesn't host pics anymore, shame.


----------



## toncij

The new forum is also a bit slower (it was significantly slower until today or so).


----------



## swddeluxx

mouacyk said:


> What voltage for DRAM?


with 1.45vDim


----------



## djgar

Kimir said:


> Huh oh, so the forum doesn't host pics anymore, shame.


Not sure what you mean - it hosted my attached image ... I didn't use a link, I uploaded.


----------



## Ironclad17

[email protected]/4.5 GHz Offset 175 mV LLC 2 (Vcore 1.4 V under load in HWInfo64)
Asrock Z170m Pro4S
Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB(CMK16GX4M2B3000C15)@2800 MHz 16-17-17-40-1T (Vdimm 1.4 V, VCCSA 1.05 V in HWInfo64)
8 instances HCI 1000% with no errors & 10 runs of IBT 2.54 standard mode passed

Regret getting this midtier microatx board and not scrutinizing the memory QVL. It's clearly limited ram frequency considering I can't reach xmp while the CPU is also at a high clock. Frustrating because the Asrock OC Formula boards were also available at the time for only a little more with much better vrms. 
It might also be that the memory controller is overheating since the stock TIM isn't doing me any favors and my CLC coolant temp is barely above ambient. Will be delidding in a few months when I get back stateside, so we'll see.

One peculiarity while stress testing, the system would be stable up to 3066 MHz until I pushed the timings a little too low and then it wouldn't post above 2700 or 2800 MHz no matter the timings,command rate, or voltages. This happened with an overclocked 6700K as well. Does ram perform better when it's heated up?


----------



## Kimir

djgar said:


> Not sure what you mean - it hosted my attached image ... I didn't use a link, I uploaded.


Oh, you have to use the add attachement and not insert image then, right?


----------



## truehighroller1

Ironclad17 said:


> [email protected]/4.5 GHz Offset 175 mV LLC 2 (Vcore 1.4 V under load in HWInfo64)
> Asrock Z170m Pro4S
> Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB(CMK16GX4M2B3000C15)@2800 MHz 16-17-17-40-1T (Vdimm 1.4 V, VCCSA 1.05 V in HWInfo64)
> 8 instances HCI 1000% with no errors & 10 runs of IBT 2.54 standard mode passed
> 
> Regret getting this midtier microatx board and not scrutinizing the memory QVL. It's clearly limited ram frequency considering I can't reach xmp while the CPU is also at a high clock. Frustrating because the Asrock OC Formula boards were also available at the time for only a little more with much better vrms.
> It might also be that the memory controller is overheating since the stock TIM isn't doing me any favors and my CLC coolant temp is barely above ambient. Will be delidding in a few months when I get back stateside, so we'll see.
> 
> One peculiarity while stress testing, the system would be stable up to 3066 MHz until I pushed the timings a little too low and then it wouldn't post above 2700 or 2800 MHz no matter the timings,command rate, or voltages. This happened with an overclocked 6700K as well. Does ram perform better when it's heated up?


I had this happening with my x299 strix-e where I couldn't get my gskill 8gb x 4 4000mhz to it's rated speed. I could only get to 3600 and if I pushed the timings to much it would stop working again. I took that mother board back and purchased the r6e and now I can run my memory at it's rated speeds.. It's running way better now. I have a 7900x at 5ghz under three radiators at 1.325v with the cache at 3.3ghz. my latency on the memory is at 50ns. I attached a screen shot of my memory and cache benchmark.


----------



## djgar

Kimir said:


> Oh, you have to use the add attachement and not insert image then, right?


You got it :thumb:


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> I think they have resized the thumbnails a bibt so that they are actually a good preview. I do agree tho, there is no reason you shold have to jump thru such hoops just to post a screenshot! :wth:


I tried Add Attachment and the preview was so small at first you couldn't even make out the picture.

But if they improved it I'll try it again.


----------



## Ironclad17

The Strix X299-E is a much higher end board with a beefy vrm and its memory QVL shows it can deliver those kinds of speeds with most kits. I've had this board for awhile now, so it's too late to return. I double checked the QVL and I noticed it actually recommends using the other DIMM slots for OCing contrary to the manual. Will give it another shot.


----------



## GRABibus

New CPU : i7-6900K

GRABibus --i7-6900K @4.3/3.8---3200Mhz-C13-14-13-34-1T----1.4v---SA 0.8v---HCI 8 hours (> 1032%)

Motherboard : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin = 1,8V


----------



## truehighroller1

Ironclad17 said:


> The Strix X299-E is a much higher end board with a beefy vrm and its memory QVL shows it can deliver those kinds of speeds with most kits. I've had this board for awhile now, so it's too late to return. I double checked the QVL and I noticed it actually recommends using the other DIMM slots for OCing contrary to the manual. Will give it another shot.



Yeah thank god I was quick about fussing with it because I was one week past returning it but the manager did it any way. This r6e is one bad mf. I've never had a board this solid. I set the memory speed selected a memory profile which the strix e didn't have that option built in and booted right into Windows.


----------



## KedarWolf

Ironclad17 said:


> The Strix X299-E is a much higher end board with a beefy vrm and its memory QVL shows it can deliver those kinds of speeds with most kits. I've had this board for awhile now, so it's too late to return. I double checked the QVL and I noticed it actually recommends using the other DIMM slots for OCing contrary to the manual. Will give it another shot.


I tried using A1/A2 like suggested on my Maximus X Formula QVL list and only got 21k MB/sec in GSAT instead of the usual 46k MB/sec in A2/B2 like the motherboard manual says.


----------



## Ironclad17

KedarWolf said:


> I tried using A1/A2 like suggested on my Maximus X Formula QVL list and only got 21k MB/sec in GSAT instead of the usual 46k MB/sec in A2/B2 like the motherboard manual says.


Yeah, I think you're right. I'm actually getting worse clocks now. Will try with 2T next.


----------



## KedarWolf

Ironclad17 said:


> Yeah, I think you're right. I'm actually getting worse clocks now. Will try with 2T next.


Run AIDA64 cache and memory test.

On my board, I'm sure it's running single channel instead of dual channel. I actually had the memory speed higher on A1/A2 so that's what it has to be.


----------



## chrcoluk

To the coffee lake guys running the insane vccsa and vccio voltages on coffee lake you sure its safe? max is apparently 1.2v but I see a few posts going over it.

my chip has 0.98v for VCCSA so 1.22 seems huge.


----------



## Jpmboy

chrcoluk said:


> To the coffee lake guys running the insane vccsa and vccio voltages on coffee lake you sure its safe? max is apparently 1.2v but I see a few posts going over it.
> 
> my chip has 0.98v for VCCSA so 1.22 seems huge.


Not sure where you got the 1.2V Vccsa max value from since Intel did not specify one in teh data sheet (see the OP *HERE*). Needless to say, some higher ram frequencies may require well above 1.2V VSA to boot and run stable.

0.98 at what Ram speed and timings? what cpu and MB?


----------



## KedarWolf

chrcoluk said:


> To the coffee lake guys running the insane vccsa and vccio voltages on coffee lake you sure its safe? max is apparently 1.2v but I see a few posts going over it.
> 
> my chip has 0.98v for VCCSA so 1.22 seems huge.


It's generally accepted up to 1.25v on VCCIO and SA is totally safe on Coffee Lake. But more isn't always better. I wasn't 4266MHZ stable until I dropped to 1.225v.


----------



## chrcoluk

ok thanks guys, thats why I said apparently as I got that information from some other guy elsewhere.

My board is an asrock z370 extreme 6
ram is ddr4 3000 corsair veangance

The board did auto voltage to 1.15v for SA and similar for IO, I read a post recommending to manually set these both to 0.95v as AUTO supposedly massively overvolts on XMP, I set SA to 0.98v and IO to 0.95v, and right now kuhran memtest is on 300+ % coverage and no errors.

If I get errors/instability tho I will up the voltages again or just reenable AUTO.

p.s. I will be running hci later, I just found out about this new tester earlier so I thought I would try it out, it is supposedly as good as hci but much faster.


----------



## Jpmboy

chrcoluk said:


> ok thanks guys, thats why I said apparently as I got that information from some other guy elsewhere.
> 
> My board is an asrock z370 extreme 6
> ram is ddr4 3000 corsair veangance
> 
> The board did auto voltage to 1.15v for SA and similar for IO, I read a post recommending to manually set these both to 0.95v as AUTO supposedly massively overvolts on XMP, I set SA to 0.98v and IO to 0.95v, and right now kuhran memtest is on 300+ % coverage and no errors.
> 
> If I get errors/instability tho I will up the voltages again or just reenable AUTO.
> 
> p.s. I will be running hci later, I just found out about this new tester earlier so I thought I would try it out, it is supposedly as good as hci but much faster.


for the most part, VSA tends to scale with frequency. So if you are running 3000, 0.98 (1V) is probably fine. For 3866 this 8350K (with a 4400C19 b-die kit) on my Apex needs 1.2V VSA, 4266 1.25V, and strictly for grins: 4000c12-12-12-28-1T can't boot until 1.35V VSA (and 1.9V Vdimm). :cryingsmi

as Kedar said, VSA really needs to be ranged when pushing ram to higher frequencies as more is not always (or not usually) better.


----------



## chrcoluk

Jpmboy, reading your z370 OC guid now, just to say thanks, as now I know about the intel tuning plan, and the safe max vcore to use for daily use, which I didnt find anywhere else.


----------



## Jpmboy

chrcoluk said:


> Jpmboy, reading your z370 OC guid now, just to say thanks, as now I know about the intel tuning plan, and the safe max vcore to use for daily use, which I didnt find anywhere else.


you're welcome.


----------



## chrcoluk

HCI and the new memtest no problems but I am getting a high failure rate on post, diagnostic code 15 which is memory related.

maxing out SA and IO (highest values before they turn red in bios) doesnt stop it, but they turn red at 1.15v which is lower than what you guys use so I can guess I Could try higher.

There is also a value called dram activating power supply which sounds like its specifically used at post, its set to 2.5v.


----------



## djgar

chrcoluk said:


> HCI and the new memtest no problems but I am getting a high failure rate on post, diagnostic code 15 which is memory related.
> 
> maxing out SA and IO (highest values before they turn red in bios) doesnt stop it, but they turn red at 1.15v which is lower than what you guys use so I can guess I Could try higher.
> 
> There is also a value called dram activating power supply which sounds like its specifically used at post, its set to 2.5v.


Is that 1.15 in the vccsa offset field? That would make it red - they're talking here about actual vccsa, which would be an offset of probably 0.3 at most.


----------



## truehighroller1

djgar said:


> Is that 1.15 in the vccsa offset field? That would make it red - they're talking here about actual vccsa, which would be an offset of probably 0.3 at most.



I feel like it will end up being his uncore voltage being off.


----------



## Jpmboy

chrcoluk said:


> HCI and the new memtest no problems but I am getting a high failure rate on post, diagnostic code 15 which is memory related.
> 
> maxing out SA and IO (highest values before they turn red in bios) doesnt stop it, but they turn red at 1.15v which is lower than what you guys use so I can guess I Could try higher.
> 
> There is also a value called dram activating power supply which sounds like its specifically used at post, its set to 2.5v.


what board? 1.15V VSA is not "the red zone" unless that board is using an offset to the SVID.


----------



## chrcoluk

VSA doesnt go red just VCCIO sorry

also its still failing with memory not even at XMP, its random.

So even at 2133 ram speed I get random post failures which require a power cycle, sometimes multiple cycles.

I also dropped cache back to default 4ghz now and still happens.

Board is asrock z370 fatality gaming k6


----------



## Jpmboy

chrcoluk said:


> VSA doesnt go red just VCCIO sorry
> 
> also its still failing with memory not even at XMP, its random.
> 
> So even at 2133 ram speed I get random post failures which require a power cycle, sometimes multiple cycles.
> 
> I also dropped cache back to default 4ghz now and still happens.
> 
> Board is asrock z370 fatality gaming k6


sometimes the cpu needs to be re-seated. I'd try that before anything drastic. If the system is failing to post after a clrcmos, try re-seating the cpu, ram and gfx card(s). Use an air can to blow out the socket and dram slots.  After that... could be a bad/weak ram stick (or slot).


----------



## encrypted11

Consider adding a BIOS reflash to the list, I've had some degree of BIOS corruption (boot looping, GUI and language corruption) following a substantial of memory tweaks on unstable settings during warm boots.

Turn off the power outlet to the PSU for a longer period. Hold the PC's power button for a couple of seconds to accelerate the residual energy discharge. Hold the clrcmos key for at least 10 seconds to ensure a reset. I don't have the same board, but it runs on a similar BIOS.


----------



## Ironclad17

Ironclad17 said:


> [email protected]/4.5 GHz Offset 175 mV LLC 2 (Vcore 1.4 V under load in HWInfo64)
> Asrock Z170m Pro4S
> Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB(CMK16GX4M2B3000C15)@2800 MHz 16-17-17-40-1T (Vdimm 1.4 V, VCCSA 1.05 V in HWInfo64)
> 8 instances HCI 1000% with no errors & 10 runs of IBT 2.54 standard mode passed
> 
> Regret getting this midtier microatx board and not scrutinizing the memory QVL. It's clearly limited ram frequency considering I can't reach xmp while the CPU is also at a high clock. Frustrating because the Asrock OC Formula boards were also available at the time for only a little more with much better vrms.
> It might also be that the memory controller is overheating since the stock TIM isn't doing me any favors and my CLC coolant temp is barely above ambient. Will be delidding in a few months when I get back stateside, so we'll see.
> 
> One peculiarity while stress testing, the system would be stable up to 3066 MHz until I pushed the timings a little too low and then it wouldn't post above 2700 or 2800 MHz no matter the timings,command rate, or voltages. This happened with an overclocked 6700K as well. Does ram perform better when it's heated up?


Ok, after checking the various XMP settings Corsair provides for the bins of this kit, I tried a few other timings with better stability. 

[email protected]/4.5 GHz Offset 180 mV LLC 1 (Vcore 1.424 V under load in HWInfo64)
Asrock Z170m Pro4S
Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB(CMK16GX4M2B3000C15)@3100 MHz 19-19-19-39-2T (Vdimm 1.496 V, VCCSA 1.216 V in HWInfo64)
8 instances HCI 500% with no errors & 10 runs of IBT 2.54 standard mode passed

[email protected]/4.5 GHz Offset 180 mV LLC 1 (Vcore 1.4 V under load in HWInfo64)
Asrock Z170m Pro4S
Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB(CMK16GX4M2B3000C15)@2700 MHz 14-16-16-39-2T (Vdimm 1.496 V, VCCSA 1.216 V in HWInfo64)
8 instances HCI 400% with no errors & 10 runs of IBT 2.54 standard mode passed

I don't think I have much wiggle room at either of these frequencies as I wasn't even able to lower RAS without immediately errors in HCI. I don't know which would be preferable or where to go from here ideally. Even at 3000 MHz, I didn't have any luck with timings just above XMP 15-17-17-35-2T, but that seems like a good sweet spot to aim for. 

Well the benchmark makes it clear, clock is king. For some reason I'm having issues uploading the .pngs so here's imgur links. I have an AVX offset by the way. All other settings the same as above.
2700 MHz-Write 38874-Copy 34131








3100 MHz-Write 44010-Copy 36889









Ok, still having stability issues in OS even with loosest timings and low frequency (2700 MHz). Passes HCI and other stress tests no problem. Could my high Vdimm be causing issues? Nevermind, vcore was too low. All good now.


----------



## mouacyk

Stock: G.Skill Trident Z 3600-16-16-16-2T 1.35v
Current stable overclock: 3600-15-15-15-35-1T 1.4v VSA 1.1v VCCIO 1.05v tRCF336
New overclock: 4266-18-18-18-38-2T 1.45v VSA 1.25v VCCIO 1.25v tRFC336

4266MHz-17-17-17-38-2T was no go, fails in GSAT 5minute and Ram Test 200%+. Seems CAS18 is stable, several rounds of BF1 and super smooth too.
Any suggestions to make 17-17-17-38 a reality?


Spoiler


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> Stock: G.Skill Trident Z 3600-16-16-16-2T 1.35v
> Current stable overclock: 3600-15-15-15-35-1T 1.4v VSA 1.1v VCCIO 1.05v tRCF336
> New overclock: 4266-18-18-18-38-2T 1.45v VSA 1.25v VCCIO 1.25v tRFC336
> 
> *4266MHz-17-17-17-38-2T was no go*, fails in GSAT 5minute and Ram Test 200%+. Seems CAS18 is stable, several rounds of BF1 and super smooth too.
> Any suggestions to make 17-17-17-38 a reality?
> 
> 
> Spoiler


same here with my 3600c15 kit.. and a 4400c19 kit. But 17-18-18 works fine. :thinking:


----------



## mouacyk

Jpmboy said:


> same here with my 3600c15 kit.. and a 4400c19 kit. But 17-18-18 works fine. :thinking:


What voltages for 17-18-18?


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> What voltages for 17-18-18?


1.425V vdimm. 1.23 VCCIO, 1.26 VSA 

back a page or two
link:
http://www.overclock.net/forum/26680225-post6408.html


----------



## encrypted11

Jpmboy said:


> 1.425V vdimm. 1.23 VCCIO, 1.26 VSA
> 
> back a page or two
> link:
> http://www.overclock.net/forum/26680225-post6408.html


Wished I had a better kit that would match these


----------



## mouacyk

Jpmboy said:


> 1.425V vdimm. 1.23 VCCIO, 1.26 VSA
> 
> back a page or two
> link:
> http://www.overclock.net/forum/26680225-post6408.html


Thanks. 17-18-18 seems to be sticking and BF1 is liking it. Will run it through stability testing and try lowering the voltage from 1.45v down to 1.425v.


----------



## tistou77

In the bios (Rampage VI Extreme), that I put the Vcache to 1.05v or 1.10v, under Windows, it is still 1.04v in load (Aida64, SIV, etc ...)
But oddly it's more stable at 1.10v for ram

The information of the voltage that is "wrong"?


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> In the bios (Rampage VI Extreme), that I put the Vcache to 1.05v or 1.10v, under Windows, it is still 1.04v in load (Aida64, SIV, etc ...)
> But oddly it's more stable at 1.10v for ram
> 
> The information of the voltage that is "wrong"?


 none of the programs read Vcache. Have to measure off the MB read points.


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> none of the programs read Vcache. Have to measure off the MB read points.


ok, I will test, thanks

Aida64, SIV, etc ... do not read the Vcache correctly


----------



## mouacyk

mouacyk said:


> Thanks. 17-18-18 seems to be sticking and BF1 is liking it. Will run it through stability testing and try lowering the voltage from 1.45v down to 1.425v.


Anything below 1.45v crashes bf1 within 1 round. Tried 1.425v upward in 5mv increments. 

I guess it's my sample.


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> Anything below 1.45v crashes bf1 within 1 round. Tried 1.425v upward in 5mv increments.
> 
> I guess it's my sample.


could be. as you are changing voltage on each restart, enter bios and check the RTL and IOL values. if the kit will not train consistently, tryt setting these to 60/61 and 7/7 on a 2 dimm slot board (I'm hoping you are using the ASUS max X Apex). 4 dim slots and you are gonna have issues getting this gsat stable.

lastly... it's really not a good idea to "test" ram stability with a game. Just use gsat or ramtest or HCi. Less prone to totally corrupt your OS install. :thumb:


----------



## mouacyk

Jpmboy said:


> could be. as you are changing voltage on each restart, enter bios and check the RTL and IOL values. if the kit will not train consistently, tryt setting these to 60/61 and 7/7 on a 2 dimm slot board (I'm hoping you are using the ASUS max X Apex). 4 dim slots and you are gonna have issues getting this gsat stable.
> 
> lastly... it's really not a good idea to "test" ram stability with a game. Just use gsat or ramtest or HCi. Less prone to totally corrupt your OS install. :thumb:


Nope, Asus wasn't available so I tried something different - EVGA Z370 Micro. There's no way to set the RTL and IOL values directly, but I've tried dialing the tCWL up and down and below 16 won't boot. Maybe upping the VSA a bit might help.

The advice is noted. Never have truly hosed an OS, but came close a few times and saved only by the OS Repairs. Now I always run two 2 rounds of test 5 in MemTest86+ before booting an OS, as that usually is enough to indicate potential OS problems. For long term stability, I still run at least 300% in HCI Memtest, 4 hours in GSAT under Gentoo, and will start doing about 1000% coverage in this new Ram Test tool.


----------



## Enterprise24

First time with GSAT.

Enterprise24--i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8---PUD43000C158G2NJK---4133Mhz-C17-18-18-28-2T----1.48v---IO / SA 1.24v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Enterprise24

Enterprise24--i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8---PUD43000C158G2NJK---4133Mhz-C17-17-17-28-2T----1.48v---IO / SA 1.24v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## truehighroller1

truehighroller1: i9 7900x @ 5.0Ghz 1.35v 
Cache @ 3.3 1.2v 
G.SKILL F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR-4000Mhz C17-17-17-37-1T 1.43v
IO 1.10v / SA 1.05v
HCI 1000%+


----------



## Enterprise24

Enterprise24--i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8---PUD43000C158G2NJK---4133Mhz-C16-16-16-28-2T----1.55v---IO / SA 1.24v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## Jpmboy

Enterprise24 said:


> Enterprise24--i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8---PUD43000C158G2NJK---4133Mhz-C16-16-16-28-2T----1.55v---IO / SA 1.24v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


that cpu really needs close to 1.4V for 5GHz??

oh - and guys... our OP is on sabbatical for a while.


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> that cpu really needs close to 1.4V for 5GHz??
> 
> oh - and guys... our OP is on sabbatical for a while.


I want paid leave lol. 

Hey, question here for you. So I tried to run at 4200 last night since I have 4000 stable finally, and my second dim wasn't posting so I switched it with the fourth dim and behold they all booted at 4200. Is that normal behavior?


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> I want paid leave lol.
> 
> Hey, question here for you. So I tried to run at 4200 last night since I have 4000 stable finally, and my second dim wasn't posting so I switched it with the fourth dim and behold they all booted at 4200. Is that normal behavior?


need more info. switched sticks or just changed slots? And is it still in the dual or quad mode?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> that cpu really needs close to 1.4V for 5GHz??
> 
> oh - and guys... our OP is on sabbatical for a while.



Mine wants 1.44 for 50x avx stable with 4000 ram under a monoblock.. Im still thinking most ppl here are using low speed ram and reading the vid instead of the actual vcore and reporting that forward XD, dont match sillicon lottery binning settings to begin with.

@ enterprise make sure you turn off page file while checking memory stability on windows your speed dont match your settings. it is testing your hard drive not your ram

You will need to use a memory size option under gsat so you would need to play with the -M cmd till the max amount allowable let you run the test same concept as hci

this is what should read more or less look at the speed in this photo


Spoiler















man i really hate this new forum layout the old one was leagues ahead better


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> need more info. switched sticks or just changed slots? And is it still in the dual or quad mode?



Changed slots with the fourth stick. I took the number two stick and placed it in stick fours slot then I took the fourth stick and stuck in slot two. Just swapped slot places.

Quad mode.


----------



## Enterprise24

Jpmboy said:


> that cpu really needs close to 1.4V for 5GHz??
> 
> oh - and guys... our OP is on sabbatical for a while.


I am not really sure what happen. First when I receive this CPU 5Ghz need 1.32V for gaming / pass all benching and 5.1 need 1.38V for the same prupose. But I never try to find real voltage to pass P95 29.4 1344K. IIRC 1.35V got quick errors.

Then I play stupid with Geekbench. Trying to bench 5.46 at 1.57V (with just 2 cores) on custom loop plus 3866 12-11-11-28-220-1T 1.95V set (maybe 2.05V real due to board overvolt) and 1.35V IO / SA set.

I monitor temp and those 2 cores don't exceed 70C so I think it was fine. Until I reboot and restore gaming profile (5Ghz 1.32V and 4133 17-17) then BSOD happen.

So I reset everything and gone back to basic OC. Core first then RAM then uncore. I just found that 5Ghz 1.32V is no longer stable for gaming. Realbench instantly give BSOD.

Then bump vcore a little until 1.34-1.35V then totalwar give L0 error in HWinfo64. I think this is not all right. I try everything clear CMOS / flash BIOS etc. But nothing works. I think CPU was degrade from 5.46 and 1.57V or maybe 2.05V RAM or 1.37V IO / SA is the cause of degradation ? I don't know.

So I just accept it and try to find stable volt with P95 29.4 1344K and it is 1.395V.

5.1 is no longer stable no matter how much VCore. 

I think the rule 2x power consumption must be applied to number of cores. For example 6C12T stock = 120W then 6C12T OC should not exceed 240W. 

2C2T stock maybe 40W then 2C2T OC shouldn't exceed 80W not 240W !!


----------



## Enterprise24

zGunBLADEz said:


> Mine wants 1.44 for 50x avx stable with 4000 ram under a monoblock.. Im still thinking most ppl here are using low speed ram and reading the vid instead of the actual vcore and reporting that forward XD, dont match sillicon lottery binning settings to begin with.
> 
> @ enterprise make sure you turn off page file while checking memory stability on windows your speed dont match your settings. it is testing your hard drive not your ram
> 
> You will need to use a memory size option under gsat so you would need to play with the -M cmd till the max amount allowable let you run the test same concept as hci
> 
> this is what should read more or less look at the speed in this photo
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> man i really hate this new forum layout the old one was leagues ahead better


Thank you for your suggestion.


----------



## chrcoluk

For reference the issue I posted was a faulty motherboard.

Interesting on the posts regarding cpu stability and voltage.

I discovered booting up parted linux iso, is a bigger stability tester than prime95, intel stress test etc. The iso wouldnt even boot until I dropped clock speed to 4.8ghz, at 4.9 and 5ghz it needed 1.38V to boot without a kernel panic.

Since noone really knows what the safe official max voltages are for these chips and knowing that chips like haswell had way lower operating voltages I am probably going to stick to a 4.8 non AVX clock and 4.3 for AVX loads. Disappointing but the more I read the more I see people achieving 5ghz using insane voltages like 1.4v.

@Enterprise24 yes thats because high voltage will degrade cpu's, I know many people say as long as you cool the chip its fine, high voltage will still degrade cpus regardless of operating temperature.


----------



## Enterprise24

chrcoluk said:


> For reference the issue I posted was a faulty motherboard.
> 
> Interesting on the posts regarding cpu stability and voltage.
> 
> I discovered booting up parted linux iso, is a bigger stability tester than prime95, intel stress test etc. The iso wouldnt even boot until I dropped clock speed to 4.8ghz, at 4.9 and 5ghz it needed 1.38V to boot without a kernel panic.
> 
> Since noone really knows what the safe official max voltages are for these chips and knowing that chips like haswell had way lower operating voltages I am probably going to stick to a 4.8 non AVX clock and 4.3 for AVX loads. Disappointing but the more I read the more I see people achieving 5ghz using insane voltages like 1.4v.
> 
> @Enterprise24 yes thats because high voltage will degrade cpu's, I know many people say as long as you cool the chip its fine, high voltage will still degrade cpus regardless of operating temperature.


I used to ran i5-6500 @ 5Ghz 1.52V (later drop to 1.47V after bought Z170 OCF) and one core died in 1 year. 

Didn't expect 1.57V just 0.05V more than 1.52V to degrade the new 14nm++ so quickly.

@zGunBLADEz The -M argument and turn off page file shattered my dream. 16-16 got heavily errors and was no longer possible. Even 17-17 have problems. Have some works to do now


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Sorry to hear that, but thats the right way to test ram stability on windows without resorting to go to linux just for that. 

Just make sure it is really running on the ram instead of the pagefile/hdd. Leave the system with like 500-750mb dont do nothing else so its properly tested and allocate wathever is left to gsat/hci


----------



## Enterprise24

zGunBLADEz said:


> Sorry to hear that, but thats the right way to test ram stability on windows without resorting to go to linux just for that.
> 
> Just make sure it is really running on the ram instead of the pagefile/hdd. Leave the system with like 500-750mb dont do nothing else so its properly tested and allocate wathever is left to gsat/hci


Actually I also wonder why 16-16 pass GSAT so easily since it never pass HCI more than 10%. XD


----------



## zGunBLADEz

I trust more HCI than gsat. Gsat to me its like a quick test before a 1000% run on hci

Gsat just test the ram hci test ram and voltages pick instability better in my experience with both apps.


----------



## GRABibus

Update with my i7-5930K.

Since *I updated Bios of My Deluxe II from 1401 to 1802 version some months ago, I didn't check if it could help in overclocking my "Golden" i7-5930K.

It was a mistake 

This crazy CPU is Cache stable at Cache freq=4.6GHz at Vcache=1.23V !! !
On 1401 Bios, it was stable "only" at Cache freq=4.5Ghz at Vcache=1.25V
I passed 8 hours Realbench 2.56, 4 hours Aida64 "Cache" stress test, and Memtest as followed :


GRABibus --i7-5930K @4.7/4.6---3200Mhz-C13-14-13-34-1T----1.4v---SA 0.8v---HCI 8 hours (> 1061%)

Motherboard : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin = 1,8V

Other voltages in sig


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> need more info. switched sticks or just changed slots? And is it still in the dual or quad mode?


Just swapped slot places for dim 2 to the place where dim 4 was.

Quad mode.


----------



## chrcoluk

yes I will still use HCI and this new windows tool for ram testing, My linux comment was more in reference to cpu clock testing.


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> Just swapped slot places for dim 2 to the place where dim 4 was.
> 
> Quad mode.



yep... "slot binning" some stick combos benefit from shuffling slots. always worth a try. RTL training can be an indicator.


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> yep... "slot binning" some stick combos benefit from shuffling slots. always worth a try. RTL training can be an indicator.


Noted, thank you very much. Now if I could just get the 4200 stable like 4000 ?


----------



## truehighroller1

DP sorry.


----------



## Enterprise24

Turn off pagefile and -M 13800. The baseline work great now. Only set main timings and lock both IOL to 7. Time to tighten sub timings !!


----------



## Enterprise24

Enterprise24--i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8---PUD43000C158G2NJK---4133Mhz-C17-17-17-37-2T----1.48v---IO / SA 1.24v---Stressapptest----1 Hour

The culprits are tWTR_L and S 8 and 2 were too tight. So I just try my old and reliable 9 , 6 from TDZ 3600C17.

Is this normal ? 41XXX MB/S seem low compared to @zGunBLADEz 3466 14-15.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Enterprise24 said:


> Enterprise24--i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8---PUD43000C158G2NJK---4133Mhz-C17-17-17-37-2T----1.48v---IO / SA 1.24v---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> 
> The culprits are tWTR_L and S 8 and 2 were too tight. So I just try my old and reliable 9 , 6 from TDZ 3600C17.
> 
> Is this normal ? 41XXX MB/S seem low compared to @zGunBLADEz 3466 14-15.


Btw, thats my ryzen cpu that i used to guide you on track for proper testing the ram. So you can see you are not testing the hdd. But im glad you are getting the hang of it now XD

Same applies to any stress test that using ram rog bench too. Turn page file off just in case.

My timmings are very LL in that test including 1T


----------



## Enterprise24

zGunBLADEz said:


> Btw, thats my ryzen cpu that i used to guide you on track for proper testing the ram. So you can see you are not testing the hdd. But im glad you are getting the hang of it now XD
> 
> Same applies to any stress test that using ram rog bench too. Turn page file off just in case.
> 
> My timmings are very LL in that test including 1T


Thanks again. +Rep to you. 

I don't like Realbench for one thing. During test PC will freezing / stuttering. Most of others CPU stress test at least I can web browsing but that is not possible with Realbench.


----------



## vmanuelgm

Passed HCI with my new Gaming 7 Pro...














vmanuelgm--7980xe Gaming 7 Pro--4.6_4.6avx_3.1Mesh--DDR4 4000 CL17-17-17-38-1T--DRAM Voltage 1.38v--VCCSA 1.10v--VCCIO 1.08v


----------



## Jpmboy

Enterprise24 said:


> Thanks again. +Rep to you.
> 
> I don't like Realbench for one thing. During test PC will freezing / stuttering. Most of others CPU stress test at least I can web browsing but that is not possible with Realbench.


if a stress test does not cause other programs to behave like as you say... it's obviously not loading the system very thoroughly.


----------



## JMTH

Enterprise24 said:


> I don't like Realbench for one thing. During test PC will freezing / stuttering. Most of others CPU stress test at least I can web browsing but that is not possible with Realbench.


Do you have Sonic studio running by chance? If you run that and Realbench the system will be super slow and choppy to mouse movement.


----------



## Enterprise24

Jpmboy said:


> if a stress test does not cause other programs to behave like as you say... it's obviously not loading the system very thoroughly.


I am sure Prime 95 29.4 1344K is more stress than Realbanch.


----------



## encrypted11

Enterprise24 said:


> Enterprise24--i7-8700K @ 5.0/4.8---PUD43000C158G2NJK---4133Mhz-C17-17-17-37-2T----1.48v---IO / SA 1.24v---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> 
> The culprits are tWTR_L and S 8 and 2 were too tight. So I just try my old and reliable 9 , 6 from TDZ 3600C17.
> 
> Is this normal ? 41XXX MB/S seem low compared to @zGunBLADEz 3466 14-15.


Optimal GSAT copy rates appear to be +/-40000MB/s on an aggressive ~4000MHz overclock from Z170-370 for 2 DIMMs if you aren't testing the page file. Based on what the past gallery pics are indicating.


----------



## vmanuelgm

DELETED


----------



## KedarWolf

G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4500 (PC4 36000) Intel Z370 Desktop Memory Model F4-4500C19D-16GTZKKE

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232671

or 

G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Intel Z370 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232621

I'm thinking the 4400 as it's 1.4v and the 4500 is 1.45v. Doubt the 4500 will really be any better than the 4400.


----------



## KedarWolf

Them feels when you hit 180MB/sec on an 8700k in RamTest. 

It peaks at 180 but hard to time the screenshot.


----------



## encrypted11

Trivia: https://community.hwbot.org/topic/151319-b-die-binning/?do=findComment&comment=470731

Similar experiences with my 4266 kit that did far looser subs at 4000 than my 3200 C14, was fairly disappointed with the timing yields on the 4266.

No idea if the same applies to the 4400 and 4500 kit


----------



## truehighroller1

I was having issues getting my ddr4 4000 rgb 8gb x 4 staying stable at 4000. Even though I did have one whole night of hci stable running at 4000.. I'm now sitting at 3800 15-16-16-32 stable as a rock. I was able to run it two nights in a row hci stable and last night being about 2600%. The timings are super tight and the memory seems to perform awesome at the timings. I just can't get 4000 to stay stable no matter the voltages used etc.. I've tried for about two or three weeks now.


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> Trivia: https://community.hwbot.org/topic/151319-b-die-binning/?do=findComment&comment=470731
> 
> Similar experiences with my 4266 kit that did far looser subs at 4000 than my 3200 C14, was fairly disappointed with the timing yields on the 4266.
> 
> No idea if the same applies to the 4400 and 4500 kit


yeah, the "characteristics" that get a kit to 4000c12 or higher freq are not necessarily the same as running stable timings at those frequencies. Timing margins and channel alignment are very different. the 4400c19 kits have been good... and the best has been the 3600c15 kits if you can find them at a sane price. 3600c16 and 3200c12 are the same ICs (and the same bin).


----------



## zGunBLADEz

not too shabby for a strix board and GSKILL 3600/CL16 kit


----------



## CRJ84

zGunBLADEz said:


> not too shabby for a strix board and GSKILL 3600/CL16 kit


Which bios settings did you use for this?

Dram voltage, CPU VCCIO and CPU System Agent voltages ? 

Thank you


----------



## truehighroller1

CRJ84 said:


> Which bios settings did you use for this?
> 
> Dram voltage, CPU VCCIO and CPU System Agent voltages ?
> 
> Thank you


From my experience you can seem stable and even get to say 1500% in hci but when you get to about 1800% you'll see a failure and he is only at 600%~ there. I can get 4200mhz but it's not stable. The best I've managed that is 100% for sure stable as in 2500% hci + multiple nights in a row is 3800. 15-16-16-32-300 at 1.45v.


----------



## CRJ84

truehighroller1 said:


> From my experience you can seem stable and even get to say 1500% in hci but when you get to about 1800% you'll see a failure and he is only at 600%~ there. I can get 4200mhz but it's not stable. The best I've managed that is 100% for sure stable as in 2500% hci + multiple nights in a row is 3800. 15-16-16-32-300 at 1.45v.


Yes okay, I have not been able to get it stable either tried 3800 cl15, 3900 cl16 and 4133 cl17 with all mixes of voltages and nothing seems to be stable, but 3600 cl15 is stable with really tight timings so it seems just as fast as the others in games.
I have a gskill 16gb 3200 cl14 kit.


----------



## truehighroller1

CRJ84 said:


> Yes okay, I have not been able to get it stable either tried 3800 cl15, 3900 cl16 and 4133 cl17 with all mixes of voltages and nothing seems to be stable, but 3600 cl15 is stable with really tight timings so it seems just as fast as the others in games.
> I have a gskill 16gb 3200 cl14 kit.



Yeah I thought I had 4000 stable, next day error at 1600%. I wasn't having temp issues either.. I have a 4000 17-17-17-37-700 gskill b die rgb kit. It might just be my imc, it might just be the bios needs more tweaking and memory compatibility tweaks.. I'll try again next big bios update.


----------



## Jpmboy

I mean sometimes or in some applications, a lower frequency with very tight timings will simply perform better (and faster) depending on whether latency or bandwidth is the choke point.


----------



## domi1711

Hey Guys,
i have some serious trouble with my memory:
4x8GB B-Die Kit (3600 cl17) on a Maximus 10 Formula with binned 8700K.
I am working on a stable 4000/4133MHz Setting for weeks now, but i get one throwback after another.
Its easy for me to get a memory setting GSAT or HCI stable (2-3hours), but i always get corrupted downloads (if i compare md5 checksums, no matter the OS, happens on Win and Linux) if a "stable" OC is on. If i reset the memory to DDR4 standards, there is no corruption. 
I somehow have a feeling, that IO/SA voltages are the culprit, but i tested hundreds of combinations from 1.05V to 1.3V and i dont want to go any higher.
Do you have any input on how i should proceed? How do you start a Mem OC?
Clear CMOS, set up CPU OC, set Primary Timings, Maximus Tweak, and add the Frequency. Then slowly add the subtimings and test, finally set RTLs. Thats how i did it until now...

I can rule out the CPU OC, because it is 100% linx stable and i even added 50mv of Vcore just to be sure.

Thank you in advance for your help!


----------



## truehighroller1

domi1711 said:


> Hey Guys,
> i have some serious trouble with my memory:
> 4x8GB B-Die Kit (3600 cl17) on a Maximus 10 Formula with binned 8700K.
> I am working on a stable 4000/4133MHz Setting for weeks now, but i get one throwback after another.
> Its easy for me to get a memory setting GSAT or HCI stable (2-3hours), but i always get corrupted downloads (if i compare md5 checksums, no matter the OS, happens on Win and Linux) if a "stable" OC is on. If i reset the memory to DDR4 standards, there is no corruption.
> I somehow have a feeling, that IO/SA voltages are the culprit, but i tested hundreds of combinations from 1.05V to 1.3V and i dont want to go any higher.
> Do you have any input on how i should proceed? How do you start a Mem OC?
> Clear CMOS, set up CPU OC, set Primary Timings, Maximus Tweak, and add the Frequency. Then slowly add the subtimings and test, finally set RTLs. Thats how i did it until now...
> 
> I can rule out the CPU OC, because it is 100% linx stable and i even added 50mv of Vcore just to be sure.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help!



A couple of hours hci is not nearly enough. If you can't get to 2000%+ hci stable or more, say 2500% for say two nights in a row without errors, your issue is the memory is not stable enough. I have a gskill single side 4000 kit and I don't see issues until the numbers mentioned above. Highest stable memory speed I can get is 3800mhz with timings that my kit likes. Highest that I could get on the strix x299 was 3600mhz.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

CRJ84 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> not too shabby for a strix board and GSKILL 3600/CL16 kit
> 
> 
> 
> Which bios settings did you use for this?
> 
> Dram voltage, CPU VCCIO and CPU System Agent voltages ? /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> Thank you
Click to expand...

Im redoing all my overclocks from scratch but in that test i had dram at 1.45v it drops to 1.44 an SA/IO at 1.25v

But i have now my vccio lower than that so i have to test again as my initial overclocks and approach was different than now.

Dont kill yourself with long runs as this is kind of fruitless in the long run. % 1000 pass and even a % 400 pass is more than enough for a regular usage. Do some gsat runs and prime blend on the mix .


----------



## truehighroller1

zGunBLADEz said:


> Im redoing all my overclocks from scratch but in that test i had dram at 1.45v it drops to 1.44 an SA/IO at 1.25v
> 
> But i have now my vccio lower than that so i have to test again as my initial overclocks and approach was different than now.
> 
> Dont kill yourself with long runs as this is kind of fruitless in the long run. % 1000 pass and even a % 400 pass is more than enough for a regular usage. Do some gsat runs and prime blend on the mix .


Yeah right. You're fooling your self. It matters unless you like corrupt files like the guy above us here.. OMG, bad advice.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Yeah lets spent the whole nine yards running stress tests non stop just to make sure it will not crash the next round.

I have occts small and large over 12 hrs i have prime runs over 10-12 hrs i have HCIs runs over 2000% coverage

theres not a general consensus on what is stable.

They said GSAT is the best crap ever i have pass GSAT and fail at HCI before the 200% mark..

I didnt said dont stress test, just dont kill yourself with it.


----------



## encrypted11

With GSAT linux shell on windows (bash) rather than actual ubuntu or mint, you'd have to be absolutely sure you're not stress testing your SSD instead of memory when it leaks into your page file.

GSAT copy rates on a mem overclocked skylake-coffeelake are in upwards of 30000MB/s from page one of the thread rather than <10000MB/s some are observing.



> Caveats
> 
> This test works by stressing system interfaces. It is good at catching memory signal integrity or setup and hold problems, memory controller and bus interface issues, and disk controller issues. It is moderately good at catching bad memory cells and cache coherency issues. It is not good at catching bad processors, bad physical media on disks, or problems that require periods of inactivity to manifest themselves. It is not a thorough test of OS internals. The test may cause marginal systems to become bricks if disk or memory errors cause hard drive corruption, or if the physical components overheat.


https://github.com/stressapptest/stressapptest



[email protected] said:


> Stressapp is more stressful than HCI for testing memory alone. HCI's load is a bit more spread to the cache, while Stressapp is more memory bus isolating. They both have their use, but if testing memory alone, then Stressapp is a quicker way of finding errors.


----------



## truehighroller1

zGunBLADEz said:


> Yeah lets spent the whole nine yards running stress tests non stop just to make sure it will not crash the next round.
> 
> I have occts small and large over 12 hrs i have prime runs over 10-12 hrs i have HCIs runs over 2000% coverage
> 
> theres not a general consensus on what is stable.
> 
> They said GSAT is the best crap ever i have pass GSAT and fail at HCI before the 200% mark..
> 
> I didnt said dont stress test, just dont kill yourself with it.







encrypted11 said:


> This test works by stressing system interfaces. It is good at catching memory signal integrity or setup and hold problems, memory controller and bus interface issues, and disk controller issues. It is moderately good at catching bad memory cells and cache coherency issues. It is not good at catching bad processors, bad physical media on disks, or problems that require periods of inactivity to manifest themselves. It is not a thorough test of OS internals. The test may cause marginal systems to become bricks if disk or memory errors cause hard drive corruption, or if the physical components overheat.
> 
> https://github.com/stressapptest/stressapptest
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
> Stressapp is more stressful than HCI for testing memory alone. HCI's load is a bit more spread to the cache, while Stressapp is more memory bus isolating. They both have their use, but if testing memory alone, then Stressapp is a quicker way of finding errors


http://shrink4men.com/2018/02/04/na...-defend-yourself-the-more-vulnerable-you-are/

You two are right and I'm wrong and have no clue what I'm talking about, continue on.


----------



## JMTH

If you pass Gsat 2h or RamTest (default) 1-2k% and fail in HCI or RamTest (w uncore) then you probably have an uncore (90%) or possibly core (10%) voltage issue. I went through this loop a ton of times and what I thought was VCCSA or VCCIO CPU ended up being uncore voltage... Wasted a lot of time on this... I stopped using AIDA64 cache test because passing 2 hours was not enough to provide a stable enough uncore overclock for HCI. 

If you pass HCI 1-2k% but fail in Gsat or possibly RamTest (default) then you have a dram, VCCSA, or VCCIO voltage issue. Not sure if I remember passing HCI and then failing RamTest or not but I think I did once. I know I have passed HCI and failed Gsat at least 3 times but it's rare and ended up being the Dram voltage too low. 

If you fail both your up the creak without a paddle. Start over at the core and work back up.


----------



## KedarWolf

I'm really disappointed with my G.Skill DDR4 4400 on my 8700k. Won't do 1T, won't do 4266MHZ, gets worse timings 2T that my 4x8GB G.Skill CL14 3200 b-die kit at 4200 so it's not just my IMC.

I get 3k less write and copy in AIDA64 as well even with better timings (and that's still not GSAT stable). 

I'm going to send it back to NewEgg saying it won't do 4400 it's rated at with XMP at BIOS defaults. I never expected it to but it's a valid reason for a return.


----------



## Imprezzion

Why would you even buy new RAM with current pricing if you have a 4200 capable kit already. 

But still, it's weird that it has so much problems running basically anything. Could it be more BIOS / board related? Like, the IC's on the 4400's not running well on that board / BIOS?

On a side note: I'm still confused why my super cheap-o hyperx fury will run 2700 CL11 just fine at 1.35v but won't run 3000 at any timings. Just... Any.. Not even something ridiculous like 16-18-18..

I got it to run 1000% HCI at 2700-11-14-14-28-180-1T 1.35v and also a 12hr prime 28.7 avx blend pass at 14GB usage since I used that to stresstest my cpu and had the RAM clocks still applied. Never crashed or errored since and it's been like, 8 months. But yeah I just wanted to shoot for more frequency but it seems like I'm stuck here. Or my already terrible 6700K which barely runs 4.5Ghz stable also is blessed with a bad IMC.. Hehe.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> I'm really disappointed with my G.Skill DDR4 4400 on my 8700k. Won't do 1T, won't do 4266MHZ, gets worse timings 2T that my 4x8GB G.Skill CL14 3200 b-die kit at 4200 so it's not just my IMC.
> 
> I get 3k less write and copy in AIDA64 as well even with better timings (and that's still not GSAT stable).
> 
> I'm going to send it back to NewEgg saying it won't do 4400 it's rated at with XMP at BIOS defaults. I never expected it to but it's a valid reason for a return.


KW - you talking about this 4400c19 2x8GB kit?


----------



## Enterprise24

Anyone experience CPU temp increase by tighten these 4 timings together ? Tighen each alone don't have problem but together they are big problem !!

tRRD_L

tRRD_S

tFAW

tREFI

I notice some strange behavior on some programs like

Prime 95 temp increase by 15C power package increase as well.

LinX 0.9.1 a lot higher GFlops (from 200 ish to 400 ish GFlops) temp massively increase and PC shutdown.

HCI memtest a lot faster for 100% coverage (from 40 minute to around 25 minute) temp increase a little.

I don't have these problem with my old [email protected] 5Ghz. At first I think because Skylake non K OC AVX2 is not utilize so temp doesn't increase but then I check with 8700K in Prime 95 26.6 which don't use AVX and saw temp increase as well. Also HCI shoulnd't use AVX right ?


----------



## Enterprise24

JMTH said:


> If you pass Gsat 2h or RamTest (default) 1-2k% and fail in HCI or RamTest (w uncore) then you probably have an uncore (90%) or possibly core (10%) voltage issue. I went through this loop a ton of times and what I thought was VCCSA or VCCIO CPU ended up being uncore voltage... Wasted a lot of time on this... I stopped using AIDA64 cache test because passing 2 hours was not enough to provide a stable enough uncore overclock for HCI.
> 
> If you pass HCI 1-2k% but fail in Gsat or possibly RamTest (default) then you have a dram, VCCSA, or VCCIO voltage issue. Not sure if I remember passing HCI and then failing RamTest or not but I think I did once. I know I have passed HCI and failed Gsat at least 3 times but it's rare and ended up being the Dram voltage too low.
> 
> If you fail both your up the creak without a paddle. Start over at the core and work back up.


This is very useful information. Where are +rep or like button ?


----------



## encrypted11

No idea what's with the temps. Are the PLL voltages set at manual defaults or auto values?

I couldn't tell if current ASRock BIOSes are overvolting these. But I'm pretty sure VCCPLL is overvolted from 1.1V (bios min) to 1.2V in auto with any form of overclocking, they're probably irrelevant but it wouldn't hurt looking at these. 

I dialed all PLL voltages to the Intel defaults and they work just fine for my usage.


----------



## Enterprise24

1.21V VCCPLL is necessary to maintain 8700K 5.1Ghz. 

I notice reducing this on Z370 Taichi doesn't reduce temp like my previous 6500 @ 5Ghz + Z170 OCF where temp reduce by 1C every 0.01V. On OCF default was 1.3V and I drop it to 1.1V temp reduce by 20C which is insane and doesn't hurt stability.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> KW - you talking about this 4400c19 2x8GB kit?


Yes, can you show me your AsRock Timing Configurator?


----------



## tistou77

I'm testing Ram and Cache with RamTest
if I increase the CPU frequency, I increase the Vcore, but I also have to increase the Vcache ?
By just increasing the Vcore, I have an error with RamTest

Thanks

EDIT: seems to be good, some settings on AUTO, I think


----------



## WiSH2oo0

Good morning people,

I just picked up some new gear and I'm running HCI now with bios set on optimized defaults settings. I want to make sure my new system is stable stock before I proceed to the main event. I have the Corsair Vengeance CMK16GX4M2B3600C18 along with an ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC).

1 - How long should I test for before upping my timings to 1800MHz 18,18,19, 39, 58?
2 - Do I manually set my memory timings or do I use XMP in bios?
3 - If I manually set the timings, which settings do I change in the bios along with voltages? 
4 - At the rated memory settings 1800MHz 18,18,19, 39, 58 is that 1N or 2N in the bios?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

WiSH2oo0 said:


> Good morning people,
> 
> I just picked up some new gear and I'm running HCI now with bios set on optimized defaults settings. I want to make sure my new system is stable stock before I proceed to the main event. I have the Corsair Vengeance CMK16GX4M2B3600C18 along with an ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC).
> 
> 1 - *How long should I test for before upping my timings to 1800MHz 18,18,19, 39, 58*?
> 2 - Do I manually set my memory timings or do I use XMP in bios?
> 3 - If I manually set the timings, which settings do I change in the bios along with voltages?
> 4 - At the rated memory settings 1800MHz 18,18,19, 39, 58 is that 1N or 2N in the bios?
> 
> Thanks


if you want to determine if the settings are "stable" at least 1000% with at least 90% of ram committed. A good alternative which is pretty quick is GSAT run under windows BASH. 1 Hour there good at finding ram instability (but not cache)


----------



## tistou77

Can someone tell me what it's these options 
And if it's better of disabled or enabled some options


----------



## KedarWolf

HTML:







tistou77 said:


> Can someone tell me what it's these options
> And if it's better of disabled or enabled some options


I don't mess with those, I just use the User Profile here, find my RAM more stable with it.

Image attachments not showing a preview anymore.


----------



## KedarWolf

I'm assuming if there's a delay in your PC booting when overclocking your RAM it's not training right.

I say this because unless I raise the RAM Voltage .03 higher than the Eventual RAM Voltage my PC is slow in booting. If I raise RAM voltage it boots right away.

Is this correct @*Jpmboy* ?


----------



## tistou77

KedarWolf said:


> I'm assuming if there's a delay in your PC booting when overclocking your RAM it's not training right.
> 
> I say this because unless *I raise the RAM Voltage *.03 higher than the Eventual RAM Voltage my PC is slow in booting. *If I raise RAM voltage *it boots right away.
> 
> Is this correct @*Jpmboy* ?


I did not understand, you increase the RAM voltage in 2 cases ?
Or the RAM voltage is the same as the Eventual for faster boot ?


----------



## KedarWolf

tistou77 said:


> I did not understand, you increase the RAM voltage in 2 cases ?
> Or the RAM voltage is the same as the Eventual for faster boot ?


Unless I have the RAM Voltage at 1.5V and the RAM Eventual at 1.47 at 4266MHZ it boots much slower. So if I lower the RAM voltage to 1.49 slower boots, 1.48v extremely slow boots, at 1.5v boots instantaneously.

I'm thinking it's RAM Training is the issue.

Before I see the BIOS loading screen that is. Just a black screen.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.1---4266Mhz-C19-17-17-33-2T---1.47v---SA 1.2375v---VCCIO 1.2375---Stressapptest---1 Hour
G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.

Going to resize those pics, repost them. :/

If I put my tCL at 19 I can have my tCWL at 13 in BIOS and my IO Latency Offset at 14 with lowers my IOLs and RTLs by quite a bit. 

Wait, Attached Thumbnails working now. 

If it's a .bmp file you need to convert it to .jpg or .png or will not show as an Attached Thumbnail.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> I'm assuming if there's a delay in your PC booting when overclocking your RAM it's not training right.
> 
> I say this because unless I raise the RAM Voltage .03 higher than the Eventual RAM Voltage my PC is slow in booting. If I raise RAM voltage it boots right away.
> 
> Is this correct @*Jpmboy* ?


A higher boot voltage can help... but you just have to test stability at the run voltage thoroughly (Boot>>Eventual can lead to some alignment at the margins). It's pretty hard to address @tistou77's question without knowing if the slow boot is holding at a specific q-code. Very long pauses (eg, up to a minute) at 78, 91 happen when really pushing very tight benchmark timings. Especially when setting a v low tRCD. Other slow posts codes are 4F, 2B... these are training.

Bottom line is, slow post (not boot) can be "normal" when you have a whole bunch of manually set voltages, clocks and timings.




KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.1---4266Mhz-C19-17-17-33-2T---1.47v---SA 1.2375v---VCCIO 1.2375---Stressapptest---1 Hour
> G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.
> 
> Going to resize those pics, repost them. :/
> 
> If I put my tCL at 19 I can have my tCWL at 13 in BIOS and my IO Latency Offset at 14 with lowers my IOLs and RTLs by quite a bit.
> 
> Wait, Attached Thumbnails working now.
> 
> If it's a .bmp file you need to convert it to .jpg or .png or will not show as an Attached Thumbnail.


NIce - squeezing that 3200c14 kit for all it's got! :thumb:


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> A higher boot voltage can help... but you just have to test stability at the run voltage thoroughly (Boot>>Eventual can lead to some alignment at the margins). It's pretty hard to address @tistou77's question without knowing if the slow boot is holding at a specific q-code. Very long pauses (eg, up to a minute) at 78, 91 happen when really pushing very tight benchmark timings. Especially when setting a v low tRCD. Other slow posts codes are 4F, 2B... these are training.
> 
> Bottom line is, slow post (not boot) can be "normal" when you have a whole bunch of manually set voltages, clocks and timings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NIce - squeezing that 3200c14 kit for all it's got! :thumb:


I get a 61 code up to three times in rotation and can take up to 30-45 seconds to get it to post to BIOS load screen.

b1 actually I think.

Higher voltages zero issues.


----------



## tistou77

KedarWolf said:


> Unless I have the RAM Voltage at 1.5V and the RAM Eventual at 1.47 at 4266MHZ it boots much slower. So if I lower the RAM voltage to 1.49 slower boots, 1.48v extremely slow boots, at 1.5v boots instantaneously.
> 
> I'm thinking it's RAM Training is the issue.
> 
> Before I see the BIOS loading screen that is. Just a black screen.


Ok, I have the RAM voltage at 1.37v and Eventual on AUTO (same voltage)
I will be able to test, Eventual at 1.37v and RAM voltage at 1.38 or 1.39v

I will look next time for Qcode
If I remember, it's Qcode for the CPU and for boot leds, it's the white (PCIe I believe) that lasts the longest

Thanks for your help


----------



## tistou77

I tested by increasing the RAM Voltage (and set the Eventual), it's the same

So for the Q-codes displayed the longest

CPU: 22, 05, 99
HDD: A0

I had the option Fast Boot (Boot menu) on Enabled, I disabled the option and the boot is faster (tested on 2 reboot), 
To see if that was it
What does this option exactly ?

Thanks for your help

PS: if I have to post in another topic, tell me


----------



## KedarWolf

truehighroller1 said:


> http://shrink4men.com/2018/02/04/na...-defend-yourself-the-more-vulnerable-you-are/
> 
> You two are right and I'm wrong and have no clue what I'm talking about, continue on.


I can pass GSAT at 5.1GHZ CPU, 5.1GHZ cache, 4266MHZ RAM but until I reduce CPU and uncore to 5.0/5.0 I can't pass HCI and MemTest so there is truth in what has been said. :h34r-smi


----------



## djgar

From what I understand, GSAT is pretty much strictly memory while those others stress the cache as well.


----------



## truehighroller1

djgar said:


> From what I understand, GSAT is pretty much strictly memory while those others stress the cache as well.


HCI stresses cache better and the memtest stresses memory faster or more efficiently then gsat.


----------



## Jpmboy

doesn't matter which is faster, to a degree - HCi can take geologic epochs when doing 64 or 128GB even on a 10 ro 18 core cpu - what matters is which finds errors best. In my experience with these, GSAT is best at that... and can run thru 64 or 128GB in a reasonable timeframe.


----------



## vmanuelgm

GSAT 2 hours is easier to pass compared to HCI 1000%, so I prefer HCI...


----------



## tistou77

tistou77 said:


> I'm testing Ram and Cache with RamTest
> if I increase the CPU frequency, I increase the Vcore, but I also have to increase the Vcache ?
> By just increasing the Vcore, I have an error with RamTest
> 
> Thanks


For the Cache to 3000 or 3100, you have how much voltage in bios (to get an idea) ?
At day, it goes to 1000 or 2000% and the next day I have an error (or freeze) not even 100%
I think it's an option in AUTO


----------



## tistou77

RamTest, HCI are dependent on the AVX frequency or not at all ? 
And if Ramtest / HCI require more Vcore than Realbench and Aida64, for example

EDIT : I found for AVX frequency


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.0---4266Mhz-C19-17-17-33-2T---1.47v---SA 1.2375v---VCCIO 1.2375---RamTest---1 Hour
G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.


----------



## mouacyk

dbq5anlxj said:


> is there anything eles I can do to improve the latency?
> 
> 8700k 5.1/5.0 1.376v 4266 17-18-18-38-1t 1.45v IO/SA 1.25


Interesting that 1T worked for you. What is the base RAM model?


----------



## swddeluxx

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.0---4266Mhz-C19-17-17-33-2T---1.47v---SA 1.2375v---VCCIO 1.2375---RamTest---1 Hour
> G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.


what is your Version of * TurboV_Core* Program *Kedar* ?, i mean - what is the Version Number of *TurboV_Core* is it in the Picture?


----------



## Jpmboy

swddeluxx said:


> what is your Version of * TurboV_Core* Program *Kedar* ?, i mean - what is the Version Number of *TurboV_Core* is it in the Picture?


it's right in the TVcore window. 

oops - I was thinking asrock TC.


----------



## KedarWolf

swddeluxx said:


> what is your Version of * TurboV_Core* Program *Kedar* ?, i mean - what is the Version Number of *TurboV_Core* is it in the Picture?



https://overclocking.guide/download/turbov-core-for-z170/


----------



## swddeluxx

Ok, im used newest TurboV Core 1.02.02 (Create Date October 7, 2017)

https://overclocking.guide/download/asus-turbov-core-x299/?wpdmdl=3169

your TurboV Core is TurboV_Core_1.00.37 (Create Date September 20, 2015)

and there is other TurboV_Core_1.01.15 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/bhooz432v8rir88/TurboV_Core_1.01.15.zip


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.0---4300Mhz-C19-18-18-33-2T---1.49v---SA 1.225v---VCCIO 1.225---StressAppTest---1 Hour
G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.

@Jpmboy


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.0---4300Mhz-C19-18-18-33-2T---1.49v---SA 1.225v---VCCIO 1.225---StressAppTest---1 Hour
> G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.
> 
> @*Jpmboy*


that's fantastic for 32GB! :sonic:


----------



## entity2793

Hi all, 
I'm struggling to reach XMP specs with my 16GB x 4 kit ( F4-3600C17Q-64GTZ ). I have the x299 TUF Mk1 & 7980XE as "partners" of the kit

Saw briefly how many of you here usually surpass specs with G.Sill kits, hope I can get infected as well  

Leaving everything on auto, my board only boots with RAM @ 3200 Mhz (auto selecting 17-18-18-36 @ 1.2V) . Doesn't POST @ 3400 Mhz. Also if I try (3200 MHz and) CL16, I get 1.5V being chosen by the board. Quite huge, in my opinion

What else do you think I can try? (i also do welcome being pointed at stuff to read, last memory overcklock I've done was tightening some timings on a DDR1-400 OCZ kit)

I should also mention I got a bit scared by the fact that my kit wouldn't boot with XMP, so I did RMA it. The kit was in the QVL list of the motherboard, thought that it is pretty much a guarantee ...
What I got back seems to similarly underperform though. Is there a way to find out which component is hindering the others? Since my board is by far the cheapest of these components, I'm relatievely fine with replacing it if it means (there's a reasonable chance) I can get more out of the kit


----------



## Streetdragon

Try 1,39V on the Dimms.
xmp disabled, set 3600Mhz on the Dimms and 17-18-18-36 Timmings.
if this boots run a little ramtest. HCI 500% should be enough.
If you wanan stay with it, test longer. Or lower the voltage or tight up the timings


----------



## encrypted11

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.0---4300Mhz-C19-18-18-33-2T---1.49v---SA 1.225v---VCCIO 1.225---StressAppTest---1 Hour
> G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.


Good 4 DIMM numbers! At least 2 submissions a week I guess?


----------



## cekim

Enterprise24 said:


> Anyone experience CPU temp increase by tighten these 4 timings together ? Tighen each alone don't have problem but together they are big problem !!
> 
> tRRD_L
> 
> tRRD_S
> 
> tFAW
> 
> tREFI
> 
> I notice some strange behavior on some programs like
> 
> Prime 95 temp increase by 15C power package increase as well.
> 
> LinX 0.9.1 a lot higher GFlops (from 200 ish to 400 ish GFlops) temp massively increase and PC shutdown.
> 
> HCI memtest a lot faster for 100% coverage (from 40 minute to around 25 minute) temp increase a little.
> 
> I don't have these problem with my old [email protected] 5Ghz. At first I think because Skylake non K OC AVX2 is not utilize so temp doesn't increase but then I check with 8700K in Prime 95 26.6 which don't use AVX and saw temp increase as well. Also HCI shoulnd't use AVX right ?


The flop increase is a bit suspicious in its magnitude (as in wondering if a corruption caused a bad measurement). In general though, I was going to suggest looking at the effect on latency of your change. If you drastically reduce it, then operation that previously had a little breathing room, may now be happening closer together. 

The lower your latency, the better your random access throughput will be. This improves real-world performance more than absolute throughout. Particularly with 7980xe, I’m seeing higher temps and vcore required after tuning memory... however, I’m rewarded with significant real performance gains that track the synthetic latency measurement 1:1.


----------



## truehighroller1

I was able to run 4000 all day today on stock everything minus adjusting my cache voltage up a little to 1.1v. This is on the new 1301 BIOS. I turned everything back up again now and am trying another run.


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> I was able to run 4000 all day today on stock everything minus adjusting my cache voltage up a little to 1.1v. This is on the new 1301 BIOS. I turned everything back up again now and am trying another run.


nice. and if you note, siv64 is reporting cache voltage with bios 1301!


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello everyone I was wondering if anyone could help me optimize my RAM.

Quick rundown of my build, 

8700k 5ghz 1.325v no offset 4.8ghz cache
asrock taichi z370
Teamgroup 4000mhz 16gb stable at 18-19-19-39 1.35v 1.15 vccio and vccsa 

So basically I wanted to see if I would be able to hit 4000mhz at 16-17-17-xx or even 16-16-16-xx however even after pumping the voltage to 1.45 I cant seem to get it stable. I have a feeling that its the secondary timings and tertiary timings. If anyone could help me out I can dish out some btc or eth your way .


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> nice. and if you note, siv64 is reporting cache voltage with bios 1301!


I noticed that! This BIOS is way better. I'm at 5ghz cpu 3ghz cache 4ghz memory same timings as before and 0 errors @ 450% right now and looking good IMO. I got my new ek dual pumps setup and all my hoses shortened and my new ek adapters setup as well so this is exciting. My temps are cooler.


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hello everyone I was wondering if anyone could help me optimize my RAM.
> 
> Quick rundown of my build,
> 
> 8700k 5ghz 1.325v no offset 4.8ghz cache
> asrock taichi z370
> Teamgroup 4000mhz 16gb stable at 18-19-19-39 1.35v 1.15 vccio and vccsa
> 
> So basically I wanted to see if I would be able to hit 4000mhz at 16-17-17-xx or even 16-16-16-xx however even after pumping the voltage to 1.45 I cant seem to get it stable. I have a feeling that its the secondary timings and tertiary timings. If anyone could help me out I can dish out some btc or eth your way .


try lowering the cache freq (multi on Auto) when tuning up ram. Then try to bring the cache back up. Cache freq can limit ram frequency and/or tight timings. Go one CAS at a time. EG, drop to 17-18-18 first (and increase vsa a bit. 1.2V is fine on z370, assuming the board delivers what you enter in bios).


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello, I'll try that out. What do you think about optimizing the secondary and tert timings?


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hello, I'll try that out. What do you think about optimizing the secondary and tert timings?


not until the primaries are tuned.


----------



## truehighroller1

@Jpmboy

So I figured out why I've been having issues with running ddr4 4000 finally! I bumped up my dmi voltage to 1.15v last night and was able to run memtest all night, no errors!! I set my memory to 17-17-17-37-1 this morning and started another test and it's stable still. It'll be running all day while I'm working but the wife said it's running happy still!!!

Here's a screen shot I took from the test last night. Check out the voltage on the CPU and my temps! 

Also what's the stock dmi voltage for these chips or at least the 7900x chips do you know?


http://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126177&d=1522051296


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> So I figured out why I've been having issues with running ddr4 4000 finally! I bumped up my dmi voltage to 1.15v last night and was able to run memtest all night, no errors!! I set my memory to 17-17-17-37-1 this morning and started another test and it's stable still. It'll be running all day while I'm working but the wife said it's running happy still!!!
> 
> Here's a screen shot I took from the test last night. Check out the voltage on the CPU and my temps!
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126177&d=1522051296


usually DMI is an extreme thing, but hey once the parts are hooked together it can be very Edisonian when figuring things out. Gotta post to the guy who is running 128GB!


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> usually DMI is an extreme thing, but hey once the parts are hooked together it can be very Edisonian when figuring things out. Gotta post to the guy who is running 128GB!



Yeah I had tried everything else this weekend voltage wise vccio, vsa, cache, vcore, up and down. I said heck with it and threw 1.15v at the DMI and watched it act more stable instantly... I would've never guessed because no one ever mentions it as an option to try but knew it had to do with memory so I figured why not try it and bam finally!!!


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> Yeah I had tried everything else this weekend voltage wise vccio, vsa, cache, vcore, up and down. I said heck with it and threw 1.15v at the DMI and watched it act more stable instantly... I would've never guessed because no one ever mentions it as an option to try but knew it had to do with memory so I figured why not try it and bam finally!!!


Hi,
Got a screen shot or exact description of DMI for us cavemen


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Got a screen shot or exact description of DMI for us cavemen



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Media_Interface


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Media_Interface


Hi,
How would it show in bios ?
My x99 and 3200C14 is fairly volatile
Froze doing this test :/
https://www.techpowerup.com/232536/techpowerup-announces-memtest64-test-memory-from-within-windows

Tried to install the 3200C16 and wouldn't even post


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> How would it show in bios ?
> My x99 and 3200C14 is fairly volatile
> Froze doing this test :/
> https://www.techpowerup.com/232536/techpowerup-announces-memtest64-test-memory-from-within-windows
> 
> Tried to install the 3200C16 and wouldn't even post


It's listed in my tweakers Paradise sub menu in my bios. I have the r6e mb.

Also see pch definton as it shows how it is connected to the IMC.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_Controller_Hub


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Thanks for the links I believe do remember tweakers paradise in x99 bios,

I bought the 3200C14 for my x299 ultimately but tried it first in my x99 seeing it was spasificly stated for x99 and no other thought it might have a chance to work and it did 
Bad thing is the 3200C16 won't work in it states x99 and z170 so it's different in some way that borks completely :/


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for the links I believe do remember tweakers paradise in x99 bios,
> 
> I bought the 3200C14 for my x299 ultimately but tried it first in my x99 seeing it was spasificly stated for x99 and no other thought it might have a chance to work and it did
> Bad thing is the 3200C16 won't work in it states x99 and z170 so it's different in some way that borks completely :/



Have you tried setting up just one stick first? I've done that in the past and had success. My memory is not listed in the qvl either.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
No I don't believe x99 will run on one stick 
Two it should but at default all four sticks would be using 2133 I believe so I did remember to optimize defaults before switching the ram out 

I'm 15hrs and passed 4 through using memtest86+ with the 3200C16 on my x299 system now all good but dang this is slow :/
Everyone "bsod" recommends 8 passes to test ram and dimm slots for errors but at this rate it's going to take 30-36 hrs to finish 4x8gb sticks


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> No I don't believe x99 will run on one stick
> Two it should but at default all four sticks would be using 2133 I believe so I did remember to optimize defaults before switching the ram out
> 
> I'm 15hrs and passed 4 through using memtest86+ with the 3200C16 on my x299 system now all good but dang this is slow :/
> Everyone "bsod" recommends 8 passes to test ram and dimm slots for errors but at this rate it's going to take 30-36 hrs to finish 4x8gb sticks



Use the memtest program linked in the op it's faster. HCI is even faster but imo doesn't catch the cache issues as easy as memtest. I can pass hci and then run memtest and memtest sees an issue where hci didn't.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Do you mean RamTest 
https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/
Only MemTest is the hcimemtest


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Do you mean RamTest
> https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/
> Only MemTest is the hcimemtest


Yes my bad. It's way faster. I have it backwards my bad, hci will catch cache issues that ramtest doesn't..


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Okay great is hci memtest a freebie


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Okay great is hci memtest a freebie


Yeah and you can pay as well and unlock better functionality. If you get the free one you have to plug in the amount of memory to test and open a window for each core manually. With the paid version it does it for you.

Wife just informed me that hci is at 1000% + and 0 errors still at our house with the tighter timings I plugged in this morning!!! I'm so happy I finally figured this crap out. Hell I can probably get 4266 now too!!


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Okay great is hci memtest a freebie


It's only $5.00 for the Pro version.


----------



## truehighroller1

CptSpig said:


> It's only $5.00 for the Pro version.


Yeah it's worth it to IMO.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Indeed just tiered of system lock ups with other methods like realbench......
Using memtest86+ in fail safe mode lol not sure if it's using the 3200 mem speed or not


----------



## Jpmboy

Don;t forget about using GSAT when you have lots of ram. Works fast and is probably the best at finding timing errors.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> Don;t forget about using GSAT when you have lots of ram. Works fast and is probably the best at finding timing errors.


Hi,
Yeah not really looking to get into linux too many ssd's with 10 on them and 7 
But you have mentioned 10 and using bash which sounds interesting but I've not seen many if any details on using bash


----------



## djgar

CptSpig said:


> It's only $5.00 for the Pro version.


I've paid $10 for the Deluxe twice (I go back some years) - so convenient, just boot it from a CD .

I mean, we spend $2000+ for a rig, and balk at $5 or $10 to insure stability ...


----------



## ThrashZone

djgar said:


> I've paid $10 for the Deluxe twice (I go back some years) - so convenient, just boot it from a CD .
> 
> I mean, we spend $2000+ for a rig, and balk at $5 or $10 to insure stability ...


Hi,
It's usually not the price it's really about waste 
For example I paid for 3Dmark and it was a total waste the free version works better


----------



## djgar

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> It's usually not the price it's really about waste
> For example I paid for 3Dmark and it was a total waste the free version works better


True enough, don't pay for lousy software, but do for worthwhile ones :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yeah 5 bucks here 10 bucks there and the they never stop one is better then the other 2 seconds later or the next day it's just another got to have and is how money pits are maintained


----------



## djgar

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah 5 bucks here 10 bucks there and the they never stop one is better then the other 2 seconds later or the next day it's just another got to have and is how money pits are maintained


Good software is well supported - all entries identified in the OP fall in that category. HCI is good for one year upgrades. Some things are worthwhile!


----------



## truehighroller1

Well it made another run past 2000℅+ and this time with my proper memory timings at 4000 which are 17-17-17-37-1. I'll post a screen shot later as I'm still working. I'd like to see a break down of the die setup for skylake-x to better understand why raising the DMI voltage finally fixed my memory issues. Hell I'll probably game some tonight.


----------



## songi

Hi. I have 32gb 4x8 3200mhz team dark pro ram with 14-14-14-31 timings on a maximus x hero mobo and curious what kind of memory OC could I aim for at around 1.4v? dont think i want to go much over that for 24/7 use but would like to see how well this kit can do


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> So I figured out why I've been having issues with running ddr4 4000 finally! I bumped up my dmi voltage to 1.15v last night and was able to run memtest all night, no errors!! I set my memory to 17-17-17-37-1 this morning and started another test and it's stable still. It'll be running all day while I'm working but the wife said it's running happy still!!!
> 
> Here's a screen shot I took from the test last night. Check out the voltage on the CPU and my temps!
> 
> Also what's the stock dmi voltage for these chips or at least the 7900x chips do you know?
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126177&d=1522051296


Hi @truehighroller1
I know it's a lot to ask but I'm just noticing you're on 4.8 at 2.50v :h34r-smi
Could you please share your setting


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi @truehighroller1
> I know it's a lot to ask but I'm just noticing you're on 4.8 at 2.50v :h34r-smi
> Could you please share your setting


I'd have to wait until I get home which might be late. Plus I will still be setting some stuff lower because I just had stuff up higher then normal in some places because I was trying to get stable until I finally figured out that it was the DMI voltage. I worked 19 hours yesterday and I'm back at it already after four hours sleep last night, but yes I will and its 1.25v cpu not 2.5 .

Also I managed to tighten my timings on my memory yesterday to 17-17-17-37-1 and I'm still 100% stable. I ran prime 95 last night for some one to satisfy their need to know I was truly stable.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yeah my bad darn typo 
I do appreciate it 4.8 I used to be able to do and it just hit a wall on the new bios :/
That's why I was testing my memory which finally got through 8 passes with no error at 3200C16 default timings arty:


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah my bad darn typo
> I do appreciate it 4.8 I used to be able to do and it just hit a wall on the new bios :/
> That's why I was testing my memory which finally got through 8 passes with no error at 3200C16 default timings arty:



No problem, for the most part, sync all cores 48, llc 5, adaptive CPU voltage with additional turbo voltage set to 1.25, cache max ratio set to 30 for right now, lowest set to auto, cache voltage manual mode 1.065 I believe, CPU input 1.95, under the CPU power limits I have them all turned up to the max as far as max turbo time etc., I set the vrm check thingy to off so power draw doesn't trip it then set the memory power draw limit to 140% and CPU to 240% and set the other power phase things in there to extreme but can probably turn those back to normal or Asus optimized. I set fast boot options every where to off and turned on memory training every where to on. 

That's about it I believe. I set my memory using the memory profile for Samsung b die that sets it to 4000 and set the memory speed myself to 4000 and didn't use xmp at all and set the memory voltage to 1.5v.

DMI voltage 1.15. Forgot also vccsa 1.0 vccio 1.005


----------



## Haans249

truehighroller1 said:


> No problem, for the most part, sync all cores 48, llc 5, adaptive CPU voltage with additional turbo voltage set to 1.25, cache max ratio set to 30 for right now, lowest set to auto, cache voltage manual mode 1.065 I believe, CPU input 1.95, under the CPU power limits I have them all turned up to the max as far as max turbo time etc., I set the vrm check thingy to off so power draw doesn't trip it then set the memory power draw limit to 140% and CPU to 240% and set the other power phase things in there to extreme but can probably turn those back to normal or Asus optimized. I set fast boot options every where to off and turned on memory training every where to on.
> 
> That's about it I believe. I set my memory using the memory profile for Samsung b die that sets it to 4000 and set the memory speed myself to 4000 and didn't use xmp at all and set the memory voltage to 1.5v.
> 
> DMI voltage 1.15. Forgot also vccsa 1.0 vccio 1.005


Hello Again! So, you're running the memory profile in the R6E bios for Samsung B? Not XMP? I have the GSkill 4266 CL17 kit (couldn't help myself and had to order a confirmed stable kit at 4266) so I will also give that a try, while bringing the voltage/MHz down and rebuild.

Thanks for all the time you're spending and willingness to share your findings. We all know how much time gets vested with memory tweaks


----------



## truehighroller1

Haans249 said:


> Hello Again! So, you're running the memory profile in the R6E bios for Samsung B? Not XMP? I have the GSkill 4266 CL17 kit (couldn't help myself and had to order a confirmed stable kit at 4266) so I will also give that a try, while bringing the voltage/MHz down and rebuild.
> 
> Thanks for all the time you're spending and willingness to share your findings. We all know how much time gets vested with memory tweaks


Correct and no problem


----------



## truehighroller1

Dp sorry.


----------



## Pepillo

truehighroller1 said:


> No problem, for the most part, sync all cores 48, llc 5, adaptive CPU voltage with additional turbo voltage set to 1.25, cache max ratio set to 30 for right now, lowest set to auto, cache voltage manual mode 1.065 I believe, CPU input 1.95, under the CPU power limits I have them all turned up to the max as far as max turbo time etc., I set the vrm check thingy to off so power draw doesn't trip it then set the memory power draw limit to 140% and CPU to 240% and set the other power phase things in there to extreme but can probably turn those back to normal or Asus optimized. I set fast boot options every where to off and turned on memory training every where to on.
> 
> That's about it I believe. I set my memory using the memory profile for Samsung b die that sets it to 4000 and set the memory speed myself to 4000 and didn't use xmp at all and set the memory voltage to 1.5v.
> 
> DMI voltage 1.15. Forgot also vccsa 1.0 vccio 1.005


Where is the DMI voltage in the Asus BIOS? I can't find it.

Thanks


----------



## truehighroller1

Pepillo said:


> Where is the DMI voltage in the Asus BIOS? I can't find it.
> 
> Thanks


 under tweakers Paradise.


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> No problem, for the most part, sync all cores 48, llc 5, adaptive CPU voltage with additional turbo voltage set to 1.25, cache max ratio set to 30 for right now, lowest set to auto, *cache voltage manual mode 1.065 I believe,* CPU input 1.95, under the CPU power limits I have them all turned up to the max as far as max turbo time etc., *I set the vrm check thingy to off* so power draw doesn't trip it then set the memory power draw limit to 140% and CPU to 240% and set the other power phase things in there to extreme but can probably turn those back to normal or Asus optimized. I set fast boot options every where to off and *turned on memory training every where to on. *
> 
> That's about it I believe. I set my memory using the memory profile for Samsung b die that sets it to 4000 and set the memory speed myself to 4000 and didn't use xmp at all and set the memory voltage to 1.5v.
> 
> DMI voltage 1.15.* Forgot also vccsa 1.0 vccio 1.005*


Hi,
Thanks verify later if you'd be so kind 
Memory stuff I'm not trying to push that past it's rated speed 3200C16 for now 
These might be why I'm having no luck got them backwards but never had any problems before 1301 bios :/
VCCIO I've been using 1.1
VCCSA 1.05 
CPU input I've been using 1.9 

I'll have to look around for these other 2 bold items :thumb:


----------



## truehighroller1

New memory settings, 16-17-17-37-1 at 4000. I'm still testing right now but I believe it's stable. I'm going to let the test run the rest of the day. I bumped my cache speed to 3.2Ghz now as well.



I will post back shortly about my settings for you also as I confirmed some stuff. 

Cache voltage I had set to 1.058 manual. The memory training is listed under memory timings main sub menu at the bottom. I was right about the vccsa and vccio voltages. The power vrm thing is under the CPU power management menu right by the tweakers Paradise menu and the option I'm referring to is at the bottom of that menu. You'll see it.


----------



## pion

*Error after 24000%*

Could use some assistance...
Got an error just before I was supposed to move my GPU to the new PC and start using it.
At 24000% !!!


----------



## vmanuelgm

truehighroller1 said:


> New memory settings, 16-17-17-37-1 at 4000. I'm still testing right now but I believe it's stable. I'm going to let the test run the rest of the day. I bumped my cache speed to 3.2Ghz now as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I will post back shortly about my settings for you also as I confirmed some stuff.
> 
> Cache voltage I had set to 1.058 manual. The memory training is listed under memory timings main sub menu at the bottom. I was right about the vccsa and vccio voltages. The power vrm thing is under the CPU power management menu right by the tweakers Paradise menu and the option I'm referring to is at the bottom of that menu. You'll see it.



U have to open 20 instances for 20 threads...


----------



## truehighroller1

vmanuelgm said:


> U have to open 20 instances for 20 threads...


I have pro it opens it for me. I figured one for each physical core was what it does.


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> New memory settings, 16-17-17-37-1 at 4000. I'm still testing right now but I believe it's stable. I'm going to let the test run the rest of the day. I bumped my cache speed to 3.2Ghz now as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I will post back shortly about my settings for you also as I confirmed some stuff.
> 
> Cache voltage I had set to 1.058 manual. The memory training is listed under memory timings main sub menu at the bottom. I was right about the vccsa and vccio voltages. The power vrm thing is under the CPU power management menu right by the tweakers Paradise menu and the option I'm referring to is at the bottom of that menu. You'll see it.


Hi,
Thanks man very much appreciated :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> New memory settings, 16-17-17-37-1 at 4000. I'm still testing right now but I believe it's stable. I'm going to let the test run the rest of the day. I bumped my cache speed to 3.2Ghz now as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I will post back shortly about my settings for you also as I confirmed some stuff.
> 
> Cache voltage I had set to 1.058 manual. The memory training is listed under memory timings main sub menu at the bottom. I was right about the vccsa and vccio voltages. The power vrm thing is under the CPU power management menu right by the tweakers Paradise menu and the option I'm referring to is at the bottom of that menu. You'll see it.


Hi,
You must have an offset somewhere my vcore was near 1.300v on those settings not 1.250 :/
Finished cenibench with 2445 but also hit 95c good thing I added a cpu limit of 95c :devil:


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You must have an offset somewhere my vcore was near 1.300v on those settings not 1.250 :/
> Finished cenibench with 2445 but also hit 95c good thing I added a cpu limit of 95c :devil:



Nope no offset, just silicon lottery bub. I got lucky and purchased from microcenter a top 14℅ CPU is all. I usually do get lucky with my hardware. Hell even my cache requires low voltage. I'm delidded which I did my self as well and I'm using three external radiators and two pumps. I have two 360 s and one 480.


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> New memory settings, 16-17-17-37-1 at 4000. I'm still testing right now but I believe it's stable. I'm going to let the test run the rest of the day. I bumped my cache speed to 3.2Ghz now as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I will post back shortly about my settings for you also as I confirmed some stuff.
> 
> Cache voltage I had set to 1.058 manual. The memory training is listed under memory timings main sub menu at the bottom. I was right about the vccsa and vccio voltages. The power vrm thing is under the CPU power management menu right by the tweakers Paradise menu and the option I'm referring to is at the bottom of that menu. You'll see it.


if the IMC is a good one, 16-17-16 should be stable (1.4V)


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> if the IMC is a good one, 16-17-16 should be stable (1.4V)


Thank you. I'll stop my test and adjust and then start it again and let it run tonight. You the Man! I was able to get that stable all day by the way so I assume it will run it. Thanks again.

Edit: Started. I just dropped it to 1.45v to be safe. I might try 1.4 later.


----------



## Enterprise24

Looks fine 










But 2hr later...










WGSAT (turn off page file) 1hr always pass so I think HCI is more brute.
Certainly not cache also as I test with 4.5 core and 4.0 uncore with 1.35V still got errors.

1000% should be minimum for this thread. lol


----------



## domi1711

Hey guys, its me again. I spent about two weeks trying to get my RAM OC stable. 
HCI memtest runs 2000% without errors. GSAT is not a problem. 
But i still get bad downloads most of the time. I cant even download an nvidia driver, the zip is always corrupted and has 1000+ errors according to 7zip. I have to load a profile without ram oc in order to downooad bigger files. Sometimes i also get game crashes, but not very often.
System:
8700k @5.1 Ghz (tried stock clocks, higher voltage, doesnt help. CPU OC is linx stable)
Maximus x Formula
4x8Gb B Die Trident Z (@4000Mhz, 17-17-17-30-300, 1.42V increased and deecresed it, no change)
I tried every Io/Sa combination from 1.1 to 1.35 V, doenst help.
I dont know what else i could try? 4000MHz should not be a problem for a decent 8700K. 
Please give me a few hints how i could tackle this problem.
regards, Dominik


----------



## domi1711

@ Enterprise: this is typical for a temperature Problem. Put a fan in front of your memory sticks and test again!


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> if the IMC is a good one, 16-17-16 should be stable (1.4V)


It did not like that. It failed at about 1350% with about 8 errors total. It did get to 2000%+ though.. I just turned the timings back to 16-17-17-36-1 with your 376 still in there and left it at 1.45 and I'll let it run all day today again until I get home and see if it passes like that and go from there. Thanks again.


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> It did not like that. It failed at about 1350% with about 8 errors total. It did get to 2000%+ though.. I just turned the timings back to 16-17-17-36-1 with your 376 still in there and left it at 1.45 and I'll let it run all day today again until I get home and see if it passes like that and go from there. Thanks again.


no biggie. 4000 @ 16-17-17 on x299 is ridiculous fast to start with.


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> no biggie. 4000 @ 16-17-17 on x299 is ridiculous fast to start with.



Yeah it didn't like the 376 setting either. I'll have to look into to this a little more. Maybe I'm at the limit here.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello, before I begin I'm going to get my system info out.

CPU: 8700k 5ghz/4.8ghz cache - 0 offset @ 1.325v IBT MAX 20 Runs stable

RAM: Teamgroup Xtreem 4000mhz @ 16-18-18-36-1 1.45 2 passes memtest86 stable

MOBO: Asrock Taichi z370

So basically if I set my ram to 16-17-17-36-1 no matter what voltage (1.45-1.48) I'm unable to get my system to finish an HCI memtest or memtest86. If anyone knows about any subtiming/tert timing I can tweak to get this I would be livid.

As well as that if I stick with 16-18-18-36-1 does anyone see any glaring issue with my timings/voltages? (e.g I can reduce timing a or b).


----------



## Enterprise24

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hello, before I begin I'm going to get my system info out.
> 
> CPU: 8700k 5ghz/4.8ghz cache - 0 offset @ 1.325v IBT MAX 20 Runs stable
> 
> RAM: Teamgroup Xtreem 4000mhz @ 16-18-18-36-1 1.45 2 passes memtest86 stable
> 
> MOBO: Asrock Taichi z370
> 
> So basically if I set my ram to 16-17-17-36-1 no matter what voltage (1.45-1.48) I'm unable to get my system to finish an HCI memtest or memtest86. If anyone knows about any subtiming/tert timing I can tweak to get this I would be livid.
> 
> As well as that if I stick with 16-18-18-36-1 does anyone see any glaring issue with my timings/voltages? (e.g I can reduce timing a or b).


Try locking RTL/IOL manually.

RTL Init 67
IOL Init 4
RTL CHA 59
RTL CHB 60


----------



## truehighroller1

Ok This is official for me and I am done tweaking for awhile lol. Twenty instances.


----------



## Jpmboy

@Haans249


----------



## arrow0309

truehighroller1 said:


> Ok This is official for me and I am done tweaking for awhile lol. Twenty instances.


Hi, can I ask you what ram exactly are you using?


----------



## truehighroller1

arrow0309 said:


> Hi, can I ask you what ram exactly are you using?


Edit: sleepy sorry. Yeah no problem. 

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c17q-32gtzr


----------



## arrow0309

truehighroller1 said:


> Edit: sleepy sorry. Yeah no problem.
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c17q-32gtzr


Ok thanks, too expensive 
I'm sure the cheaper 3600c16 rgb's can do your timings @4000 with a little ov.
For the moment I'll continue to keep my old & trusty 3200Qc14 32gb kit @4000 cl17-18-18, 1.40v (1.45v training).


----------



## CptSpig

arrow0309 said:


> Ok thanks, too expensive
> I'm sure the cheaper 3600c16 rgb's can do your timings @4000 with a little ov.
> For the moment I'll continue to keep my old & trusty 3200Qc14 32gb kit @4000 cl17-18-18, 1.40v (1.45v training).


Yes the 3600c16 does a great job at [email protected] [email protected] and [email protected]



Spoiler


----------



## zGunBLADEz

pion said:


> Could use some assistance...
> Got an error just before I was supposed to move my GPU to the new PC and start using it.
> At 24000% !!!


you are complaining for 1 error at %24000 coverage??
it took me over 16hrs for %1300 on 2x16gb sticks (32gb) how long you be running that again?

Thats even a serious question?


----------



## truehighroller1

CptSpig said:


> Yes the 3600c16 does a great job at [email protected] [email protected] and [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


No way it's stable past 2000%.


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> No way it's stable past 2000%.


This was the run on it's way to 2000%.




Spoiler


----------



## truehighroller1

CptSpig said:


> This was the run on it's way to 2000%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


That's only half way there. Plus your CPU was at 5Ghz at 1.365v There's no way that thing will be stable past 2000%. Nice run though.


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> That's only half way there. Plus your CPU was at 5Ghz at 1.365v There's no way that thing will be stable past 2000%. Nice run though.


You are right the CPU was at 4.4 with the same voltages. This memory kit is very good.



Spoiler


----------



## zGunBLADEz

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf---i7-8700k @5.1/5.0---4266Mhz-C19-17-17-33-2T---1.47v---SA 1.2375v---VCCIO 1.2375---RamTest---1 Hour
> G.Skill Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 B-Dies 4x8GB kit.


i want to see HCI tests on those tweaks i seriously do.


----------



## ssateneth

Can anyone recommend what sliders to change to help get an 8700k on asrock z370 taichi to post more reliably with ram @ 4266 (tridentz 4266 2x8gb 19-19-19-39)? I can get it to POST once after 5-30 attempts but after a successful POST, it POSTs every time successfully afterwards. 4200, 4133, 4100 is the same. 4000 POSTs every single time without fail @ reduced VCCA and VCCIO (listed below). RAM is in 2nd and 4th slot away from CPU.

Adjusting VCCSA and VCCIO only seems to help with avoiding freezing on heavy memory access like HCI or memtest86 and i've already set to 1.24 and 1.13 respectively. 0.01 lower on either causes freezes during testing. The POST issue wouldnt be that bad to deal with if I could just have the motherboard attempt to repeatedly retry instead of just giving up after 2 attempts and needing manual keypresses to retry again. My x399 taichi has an OC Retry setting that does just that but for some reason the z370 taichi doesnt

These settings are already 40 hour stable once it's actually post'ed once. It's jsut really hard to post after a memory timing has been changed.


Code:


Core x50
Cache x50
Voltage 1.425 (not fine tuned yet, but multipliers are as high as they can reliably go. reducing to 48x on either/both doesnt affect POST chance)

RAM 4266 (133 strap)
Voltage 1.5

VCCIO 1.13
VCCSA 1.24
All other voltage auto
 
tCL		16
tRCD		17
tRP		17
tRAS		36 (not yet tuned)
CR		2

tWR		24 (not yet tuned)
tRFC		320
tRRD_L		11 (not yet tuned)
tRRD_S		8 (not yet tuned)
tWTR_L		7 (not yet tuned)
tWTR_S		2 (not yet tuned)
tRTP		15 (not yet tuned)
tFAW		52 (not yet tuned)
tCWL		13

tREFI		65535
tCKE		8 (not yet tuned)
tRDRD_sg	6
tRDRD_dg	4
tRDRD_dr	1
tRDRD_dd	1
tRDWR_sg	12
tRDWR_dg	12
tRDWR_dr	1
tRDWR_dd	1
tWRRD_sg	26
tWRRD_dg	21
tWRRD_dr	1
tWRRD_dd	1
tWRWR_sg	6
tWRWR_dg	4
tWRWR_dr	1
tWRWR_dd	1

IO-L Offset	26 (setting to auto doesnt change POST chance)

All other settings auto


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> That's only half way there. Plus your CPU was at 5Ghz at 1.365v There's no way that thing will be stable past 2000%. Nice run though.


It did go more than 2000.



Spoiler


----------



## truehighroller1

CptSpig said:


> It did go more than 2000.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



I mean in HCI memtest 2000%, and at that 5Ghz you had it at, not 4.4Ghz.


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> I mean in HCI memtest 2000%, and at that 5Ghz you had it at, not 4.4Ghz.


I corrected that in the above post and said it was 4.4 / 3.0 16-17-16-36 1T. This is 24/7 OC which ran more than 2000%. Sorry for the confusion I have bench mark settings mixed with 24/7 settings. See below....




Spoiler


----------



## Haans249

CptSpig said:


> Yes the 3600c16 does a great job at [email protected] [email protected] and [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Having a CPU that will even do anything past 3600 DDR4 speeds is #1 - regardless of memory kit.


----------



## zerophase

I'm trying to get a kit of 128gb 3200 14 14 14 14 34 memory stable on Haswell E 5960X, but can't seem to find the right voltages for when the cpu is overclocked. At 4.6 ghz I'm running 1.29 vcore, 1.048 vccsa, 1.25 vcache, 1.04 vccio, 1.93 vinput, and 1.04 vtt.

The instability shows itself around 5 to 30 minutes of stressing in AIDA64 when I overclock the cpu. Currently been stressing for 40 minutes in AIDA64 with just the xmp values tuned with 1.35 vdimm and all voltages remaining the same, but no core overclock without any issues. Looks like I might need to tune VCCIO up a tad, as I've already tried playing around with system agent voltages without any luck; but, there's vccio for the cpu and pch. Which one do I need to focus on tuning and how high would you go before just loosening timings?


----------



## Haans249

zerophase said:


> I'm trying to get a kit of 128gb 3200 14 14 14 14 34 memory stable on Haswell E 5960X, but can't seem to find the right voltages for when the cpu is overclocked. At 4.6 ghz I'm running 1.29 vcore, 1.048 vccsa, 1.25 vcache, 1.04 vccio, 1.93 vinput, and 1.04 vtt.
> 
> The instability shows itself around 5 to 30 minutes of stressing in AIDA64 when I overclock the cpu. Currently been stressing for 40 minutes in AIDA64 with just the xmp values tuned with 1.35 vdimm and all voltages remaining the same, but no core overclock without any issues. Looks like I might need to tune VCCIO up a tad, as I've already tried playing around with system agent voltages without any luck; but, there's vccio for the cpu and pch. Which one do I need to focus on tuning and high would you go before just loosening timings?


If you've already tested running the memory on XMP without any other overclock and it is stable, then the instability you're seeing is likely the CPU overclock. 

Turn all tertiary voltages, except vcore, back to auto. Start dropping your overclock 100mhz at a time until you find a stable stress test. It is not a memory issue but a unstable CPU overclock issue. Once you find a stable overclock with all the tertiary voltages on auto, then you can try tweaking the tertiary voltages for an extra 100 or 200mhz on the CPU, testing on each bump. My guess is your particular processor is not a great overclocker and won't go much past your stable overclock with stock tertiary voltages. You should be able to clearly identify a voltage/MHz on the CPU as you're stepping up the voltage/speed that is really the best balance based on having to add much more voltage to move one step adding unnecessary heat and instability. Anything beyond that would not be worth the extra effort.

You can also try going to 4 DIMMS and seeing if that helps.


----------



## zerophase

Haans249 said:


> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to get a kit of 128gb 3200 14 14 14 14 34 memory stable on Haswell E 5960X, but can't seem to find the right voltages for when the cpu is overclocked. At 4.6 ghz I'm running 1.29 vcore, 1.048 vccsa, 1.25 vcache, 1.04 vccio, 1.93 vinput, and 1.04 vtt.
> 
> The instability shows itself around 5 to 30 minutes of stressing in AIDA64 when I overclock the cpu. Currently been stressing for 40 minutes in AIDA64 with just the xmp values tuned with 1.35 vdimm and all voltages remaining the same, but no core overclock without any issues. Looks like I might need to tune VCCIO up a tad, as I've already tried playing around with system agent voltages without any luck; but, there's vccio for the cpu and pch. Which one do I need to focus on tuning and high would you go before just loosening timings?
> 
> 
> 
> If you've already tested running the memory on XMP without any other overclock and it is stable, then the instability you're seeing is likely the CPU overclock.
> 
> Turn all tertiary voltages, except vcore, back to auto. Start dropping your overclock 100mhz at a time until you find a stable stress test. It is not a memory issue but a unstable CPU overclock issue. Once you find a stable overclock with all the tertiary voltages on auto, then you can try tweaking the tertiary voltages for an extra 100 or 200mhz on the CPU, testing on each bump. My guess is your particular processor is not a great overclocker and won't go much past your stable overclock with stock tertiary voltages. You should be able to clearly identify a voltage/MHz on the CPU as you're stepping up the voltage/speed that is really the best balance based on having to add much more voltage to move one step adding unnecessary heat and instability. Anything beyond that would not be worth the extra effort.
> 
> You can also try going to 4 DIMMS and seeing if that helps.
Click to expand...

Just started running Google's stressapptest with just the xmp settings. I start getting errors right away. Even if I push the ram voltage up to 1.4 the errors still happen within 10 seconds.

From my understanding, memory errors at stock clock rates often need more vdimm. Considering Haswell E has a weak imc could adjusting vccio or system agent at stock knock these errors out?


----------



## Haans249

zerophase said:


> Just started running Google's stressapptest with just the xmp settings. I start getting errors right away. Even if I push the ram voltage up to 1.4 the errors still happen within 10 seconds.
> 
> From my understanding, memory errors at stock clock rates often need more vdimm. Considering Haswell E has a weak imc could adjusting vccio or system agent at stock knock these errors out?


Ok, that is a bit more clear. Try running 4 DIMMS.

Also, are you running 2 quad channel kits or 4 dual channel kits for that 128GB?


----------



## zerophase

Haans249 said:


> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just started running Google's stressapptest with just the xmp settings. I start getting errors right away. Even if I push the ram voltage up to 1.4 the errors still happen within 10 seconds.
> 
> From my understanding, memory errors at stock clock rates often need more vdimm. Considering Haswell E has a weak imc could adjusting vccio or system agent at stock knock these errors out?
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, that is a bit more clear. Try running 4 DIMMS.
> 
> Also, are you running 2 quad channel kits or 4 dual channel kits for that 128GB?
Click to expand...

It's just one kit of quad channel ram. I need all 8 sticks, as on occasion 64gb has to use the swap partition.


----------



## Jpmboy

zerophase said:


> It's just one kit of quad channel ram. I need all 8 sticks, as on occasion 64gb has to use the swap partition.


what vsa, vccio and dmi voltage is XMP applying?


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's just one kit of quad channel ram. I need all 8 sticks, as on occasion 64gb has to use the swap partition.
> 
> 
> 
> what vsa, vccio and dmi voltage is XMP applying?
Click to expand...

vsa: 1.15
vccio cpu: 1.04
vccio pch: 1.04 (is this the dmi voltage?)
vdimm: 1.35


----------



## Jpmboy

zerophase said:


> vsa: 1.15
> vccio cpu: 1.04
> vccio pch: 1.04 (is this the dmi voltage?)


just as an fyi - not all 5960Xes can push 128gb. The IMC is not the best. That said, we need to understand if it is a training issue since you seem to have 2 64GB kits (not a good thing to mix kits at this density). Download an x99 copy of Asrock timing configurator and post up a pic of what will poost (and need to see the RTLs and IOLs).
Frankly, I do not have very high expectations for 128GB (16GB sticks) at 3200 on x99 using anything other than a kit binned ot work at 128GB/3200, :sad-smile


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> just as an fyi - not all 5960Xes can push 128gb. The IMC is not the best. That said, we need to understand if it is a training issue since you seem to have 2 64GB kits (not a good thing to mix kits at this density). Download an x99 copy of Asrock timing configurator and post up a pic of what will poost (and need to see the RTLs and IOLs).
> Frankly, I do not have very high expectations for 128GB (16GB sticks) at 3200 on x99 using anything other than a kit binned ot work at 128GB/3200, /forum/images/smilies/sad-smiley-002.gif


I hope the kits binned to work together that's what it was listed as when I bought it.

The Asrock timing configurator only sees half the currently active ram, but task manager detects all of it.

I'm definitely expecting to have to loosen the timings a bit this kit was binned for Broadwell E. (don't think I'll be upgrading to broadwell E at this time) hoping there's a voltage that might help still.


----------



## Haans249

zerophase said:


> I hope the kits binned to work together that's what it was listed as when I bought it.
> 
> The Asrock timing configurator only sees half the currently active ram, but task manager detects all of it.
> 
> I'm definitely expecting to have to loosen the timings a bit this kit was binned for Broadwell E. (don't think I'll be upgrading to broadwell E at this time) hoping there's a voltage that might help still.


Try running Asus MemTweakIt. It looks like the AsRock Timing Configurator is not correctly detecting your memory timings ontop of not detecting all of your memory.

Are you running an Octal (8 DIMM) Kit? If so, than it likely should not be an issue with mixing two quad kits.


----------



## zerophase

Haans249 said:


> Try running Asus MemTweakIt. It looks like the AsRock Timing Configurator is not correctly detecting your memory timings ontop of not detecting all of your memory.
> 
> Are you running an Octal (8 DIMM) Kit? If so, than it likely should not be an issue with mixing two quad kits.


It's a 16 gig per stick 8 dimm kit. 

Timings:


----------



## Jpmboy

zerophase said:


> I hope the kits binned to work together that's what it was listed as when I bought it.
> 
> The Asrock timing configurator only sees half the currently active ram, but task manager detects all of it.
> 
> I'm definitely expecting to have to loosen the timings a bit this kit was binned for Broadwell E. (don't think I'll be upgrading to broadwell E at this time) hoping there's a voltage that might help still.


I think you'd need to use a different version.. like 3.0.6


zerophase said:


> It's a 16 gig 8 stick kit.
> 
> Timings:


RTLs and IOLs look good. :thumb:

If the configuration in failing GSAT, I'd increase the write latency (tWCL) closer to recovery time (like 14). Also, XMP can be a bit ambitious with tRAS. (this should be cas+tRTP+tRCD +/- 2) The ras window needs to be open long enough for all three operations to complete. It's a big load for any IMC to handle... increasing vdimm and vsa (system agent) can help the IMC hold up under a stress like GSAT.


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the kits binned to work together that's what it was listed as when I bought it.
> 
> The Asrock timing configurator only sees half the currently active ram, but task manager detects all of it.
> 
> I'm definitely expecting to have to loosen the timings a bit this kit was binned for Broadwell E. (don't think I'll be upgrading to broadwell E at this time) hoping there's a voltage that might help still.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you'd need to use a different version.. like 3.0.6
> 
> 
> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a 16 gig 8 stick kit.
> 
> Timings:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> RTLs and IOLs look good. /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
> 
> If the configuration in failing GSAT, I'd increase the write latency (tWCL) closer to recovery time (like 14). Also, XMP can be a bit ambitious with tRAS. (this should be cas+tRTP+tRCD +/- 2) The ras window needs to be open long enough for all three operations to complete. It's a big load for any IMC to handle... increasing vdimm and vsa (system agent) can help the IMC hold up under a stress like GSAT.
Click to expand...

What about vccio? I heard it can help a bit, but I have two of them (cpu and pch) and don't know which corresponds vccio-a or vccio-d.


----------



## Jpmboy

zerophase said:


> What about vccio? I heard it can help a bit, but I have two of them (cpu and pch) and don't know which corresponds vccio-a or vccio-d.


cpu vccio is the one you want.


----------



## Jpmboy

Haans249 said:


> Try running Asus MemTweakIt. It looks like the AsRock Timing Configurator is not correctly detecting your memory timings ontop of not detecting all of your memory.
> 
> Are you running an Octal (8 DIMM) Kit? If so, than it likely should not be an issue with mixing two quad kits.


it's the wrong ATC version for x99.

regarding mixing kits: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview
the mix can work, but will likely require some tuning knowledge... eg - don't bet on XMP working at the rated speed. Neither GSkill nor ASUS will support mixed kits.


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> it's the wrong ATC version for x99.
> 
> regarding mixing kits: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview
> the mix can work, but will likely require some tuning knowledge... eg - don't bet on XMP working at the rated speed. Neither GSkill nor ASUS will support mixed kits.


Yeah, I wouldn't expect mixed kits to work. This is just one kit I bought, about a year ago, to try and keep Unreal compilations from having to go to disk. (Was worried with Chrome open a 64 gig kit would undershoot a bit) Just didn't get around to overclocking it earlier since my vrms used to run a bit hot.



Jpmboy said:


> cpu vccio is the one you want.


Does the pch vccio even do anything for ram? I keep finding articles referring to vccio-A and D, but don't see those in my bios.

And here's 3.06 of ATC.


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the kits binned to work together that's what it was listed as when I bought it.
> 
> The Asrock timing configurator only sees half the currently active ram, but task manager detects all of it.
> 
> I'm definitely expecting to have to loosen the timings a bit this kit was binned for Broadwell E. (don't think I'll be upgrading to broadwell E at this time) hoping there's a voltage that might help still.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you'd need to use a different version.. like 3.0.6
> 
> 
> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a 16 gig 8 stick kit.
> 
> Timings:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> RTLs and IOLs look good. /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
> 
> If the configuration in failing GSAT, I'd increase the write latency (tWCL) closer to recovery time (like 14). Also, XMP can be a bit ambitious with tRAS. (this should be cas+tRTP+tRCD +/- 2) The ras window needs to be open long enough for all three operations to complete. It's a big load for any IMC to handle... increasing vdimm and vsa (system agent) can help the IMC hold up under a stress like GSAT.
Click to expand...

Alright, I had to go all the way up to cas+tRTP+tRCD 22, and tWCL 16 to start passing GSAT on occasion. For voltages 1.2 vsa, 1.15 vccio, and 1.4 vdimm. Trying to push cas+tRTP+tRCD to 24, and tWCL to 18 left me unable to get past post. 3000 mhz won't post either, maybe if I bumped up to the 125 strap.

2800 mhz seems stable so far.


----------



## Jpmboy

zerophase said:


> Alright, I had to go all the way up to cas+tRTP+tRCD 22, and tWCL 16 to start passing GSAT on occasion. For voltages 1.2 vsa, 1.15 vccio, and 1.4 vdimm. Trying to push cas+tRTP+tRCD to 24, and tWCL to 18 left me unable to get past post. 3000 mhz won't post either, maybe if I bumped up to the 125 strap.
> 
> 2800 mhz seems stable so far.


huh? Sorry if this was not clear... but RAS should be the sum of those numbers. So using the ATC you posted above, tRAS = 38 would be the sum. 
(14+14+10)
For x99, that's a pretty high VSA. If you have ever loaded XMP and not performed a clrcmos between then and now, you need to do so. XMP will set parameters that you need to return to defaults, and they are not all available in bios. Then enter the primary timings manually - 14-14-14-38-2T. VSa 1.00, vccio 1.0625 VDIMM 1.4V, and set 3200 manually. Change nothing else in the ram settings (do not re-enable XMP).
Be careful, pushing the IMC on a 5960X can be risky.


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> it's the wrong ATC version for x99.
> 
> regarding mixing kits: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview
> the mix can work, but will likely require some tuning knowledge... eg - don't bet on XMP working at the rated speed. Neither GSkill nor ASUS will support mixed kits.





Jpmboy said:


> cpu vccio is the one you want.





Jpmboy said:


> huh? Sorry if this was not clear... but RAS should be the sum of those numbers. So using the ATC you posted above, tRAS = 38 would be the sum.
> (14+14+10)
> For x99, that's a pretty high VSA. If you have ever loaded XMP and not performed a clrcmos between then and now, you need to do so. XMP will set parameters that you need to return to defaults, and they are not all available in bios. Then enter the primary timings manually - 14-14-14-38-2T. VSa 1.00, vccio 1.0625 VDIMM 1.4V, and set 3200 manually. Change nothing else in the ram settings (do not re-enable XMP).
> Be careful, pushing the IMC on a 5960X can be risky.


Yeah, I don't really want to run VSA at 1.2 for too long. I'm pretty sure if I stabilize that high it could kill the cpu in a month.

Definitely misread, cas+tRTP+tRCD +/- 2 = tRAS as the three primary timings.

Just to be clear when you say "keep tWCL closer to recovery time" you mean keep it near tWR?

Max volts I should put on both VSA, and VCCIO is 1.15?


----------



## Haans249

zerophase said:


> Yeah, I don't really want to run VSA at 1.2 for too long. I'm pretty sure if I stabilize that high it could kill the cpu in a month.
> 
> Definitely misread, cas+tRTP+tRCD +/- 2 = tRAS as the three primary timings.
> 
> Just to be clear when you say "keep tWCL closer to recovery time" you mean keep it near tWR?
> 
> Max volts I should put on both VSA, and VCCIO is 1.15?



1	CLEAR CMOS	
2	Remove Power from Motherboard	
3	Boot to BIOS	
4	DO NOT OVERCLOCK CPU	
5	Set AI Overclock Tuner to Manual (DO NOT ENABLE XMP)	
6	Set DRAM Speed to 3000 to start	
7	Set DRAM vDIMM to 1.4V	
7(a)	Set your VCCSA to 1.10 and VCCIO to 1.15	
8	Set the Following DRAM Settings for the First Pass	

Primary:	
CL: 15
tRCD:	15
tRP: 15
tRAS:	38
CR: 2T
Secondary:	
tRRD:	Auto
REF Cycle:	Auto
DRAM Refresh:	Auto
tWR: Auto
tRTP: Auto
tFAW:	Auto
tWTR:	Auto
tCKE:	Auto
tWCL:	Auto
Tertiary:	All Auto

9	Save and reboot into BIOS	
10	Redo your DRAM Timings	

Primary:	
CL: 15
tRCD:	15
tRP: 15
tRAS:	38
CR: 2T
Secondary:	
tRRD:	Auto
REF Cycle:	What was detected
DRAM Refresh:	What was detected
tWR: Auto
tRTP: Auto
tFAW:	Auto
tWTR:	Add +2 what was detected
tCKE:	Auto
tWCL:	What was detected for tWR
Tertiary:	All Auto

11	Reboot and run stability test	
12(a)	If it was unstable, lower the DRAM speed one notch and redo stability test, do so until you find your first stable Mhz setting or	
12(b)	If it was stable, raise the DRAM speed one notch and redo stability test until you find your first unstable Mhz speed, and lower back down to the most recent stable MHz setting.	
13	Once you find the max stable MHz, you can work on the Primary Timings and Secondary Ref Cycle/Dram Refresh. Other Secondary timings won't have much effect on memory throughput, leave them be.	
14	Return VCCIO and VCCSA voltages back to AUTO and test for stability, if not stable, then leave them be.	
15	Once max STABLE memory overclock is determined, then you can find max stable CPU overclock.

Have fun!


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> it's the wrong ATC version for x99.
> 
> regarding mixing kits: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview
> the mix can work, but will likely require some tuning knowledge... eg - don't bet on XMP working at the rated speed. Neither GSkill nor ASUS will support mixed kits.





Jpmboy said:


> cpu vccio is the one you want.





Haans249 said:


> 1	CLEAR CMOS
> 2	Remove Power from Motherboard
> 3	Boot to BIOS
> 4	DO NOT OVERCLOCK CPU
> 5	Set AI Overclock Tuner to Manual (DO NOT ENABLE XMP)
> 6	Set DRAM Speed to 3000 to start
> 7	Set DRAM vDIMM to 1.4V
> 7(a)	Set your VCCSA to 1.10 and VCCIO to 1.15
> 8	Set the Following DRAM Settings for the First Pass
> 
> Primary:
> CL: 15
> tRCD:	15
> tRP: 15
> tRAS:	38
> CR: 2T
> Secondary:
> tRRD:	Auto
> REF Cycle:	Auto
> DRAM Refresh:	Auto
> tWR: Auto
> tRTP: Auto
> tFAW:	Auto
> tWTR:	Auto
> tCKE:	Auto
> tWCL:	Auto
> Tertiary:	All Auto
> 
> 9	Save and reboot into BIOS
> 10	Redo your DRAM Timings
> 
> Primary:
> CL: 15
> tRCD:	15
> tRP: 15
> tRAS:	38
> CR: 2T
> Secondary:
> tRRD:	Auto
> REF Cycle:	What was detected
> DRAM Refresh:	What was detected
> tWR: Auto
> tRTP: Auto
> tFAW:	Auto
> tWTR:	Add +2 what was detected
> tCKE:	Auto
> tWCL:	What was detected for tWR
> Tertiary:	All Auto
> 
> 11	Reboot and run stability test
> 12(a)	If it was unstable, lower the DRAM speed one notch and redo stability test, do so until you find your first stable Mhz setting or
> 12(b)	If it was stable, raise the DRAM speed one notch and redo stability test until you find your first unstable Mhz speed, and lower back down to the most recent stable MHz setting.
> 13	Once you find the max stable MHz, you can work on the Primary Timings and Secondary Ref Cycle/Dram Refresh. Other Secondary timings won't have much effect on memory throughput, leave them be.
> 14	Return VCCIO and VCCSA voltages back to AUTO and test for stability, if not stable, then leave them be.
> 15	Once max STABLE memory overclock is determined, then you can find max stable CPU overclock.
> 
> Have fun!


Thanks to your suggestions I was able to get 2800 passing training and stable at looser timings than 2666. Still need to see if I can crank those primary timings down a bit.

Voltages for each were:
2800: 1.4 vdimm, 1.1 vccsa, 1.15 vccio
2666: 1.38 vdimm, 1.07 vccsa, 1.07 vccio

2933 and 3000 will probably take 1.45 vdimm for training. Is 1.45 vdimm for training safe? Might spike up to 1.47.

Wish I could get 3200 stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

I'd say you've done pretty well considering 128GB from mixing ram kits.


----------



## zerophase

Jpmboy said:


> I'd say you've done pretty well considering 128GB from mixing ram kits. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


You think G.Skill just took two separate ram kits and stuck them in the same box?

I'm trying to get in touch with their reps to see if they have more precise insight into this kit. Can't comment on their forums, though since requesting permission to post from admins is broken.


----------



## Haans249

zerophase said:


> You think G.Skill just took two separate ram kits and stuck them in the same box?
> 
> I'm trying to get in touch with their reps to see if they have more precise insight into this kit. Can't comment on their forums, though since requesting permission to post from admins is broken.


That's not the case. I doubt they stuck two quad channel kits together.

I would say your 2666mhz stable run on C11 is very good and will be faster than trying to get 2800 C15 stable. Stick with your 2666mhz and call it a day. You're really going to struggle to get much more out of 128GB on your setup and you may end up with slower memory even though the Mhz is higher, ie looser Primary/Secondary timings.

On your 2666mhz settings, plug in 280 for your tRFC and see how it does. If it is stable, lock that in as your final 2666mhz memory overclock and start working on CPU overclock.


----------



## Jpmboy

zerophase said:


> You think G.Skill just took two separate ram kits and stuck them in the same box?
> 
> I'm trying to get in touch with their reps to see if they have more precise insight into this kit. Can't comment on their forums, though since requesting permission to post from admins is broken.


 ah - my bad. I kept thinking (wrongly) that you had 2x64GB kits. I agree tho, I be quite happy with 128GB stable at 2666c11 on x99 with that memory density. very quick for 128GB. :thumb:


----------



## zerophase

Haans249 said:


> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think G.Skill just took two separate ram kits and stuck them in the same box?
> 
> I'm trying to get in touch with their reps to see if they have more precise insight into this kit. Can't comment on their forums, though since requesting permission to post from admins is broken.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the case. I doubt they stuck two quad channel kits together.
> 
> I would say your 2666mhz stable run on C11 is very good and will be faster than trying to get 2800 C15 stable. Stick with your 2666mhz and call it a day. You're really going to struggle to get much more out of 128GB on your setup and you may end up with slower memory even though the Mhz is higher, ie looser Primary/Secondary timings.
> 
> On your 2666mhz settings, plug in 280 for your tRFC and see how it does. If it is stable, lock that in as your final 2666mhz memory overclock and start working on CPU overclock.
Click to expand...

2800 12 12 12 32 2T is stable. Can't get any lower yet. 

2666 11 11 11 30 1T is stable, and it looks like 280 tRFC is going to come back as stable too. I'm sure it's going to need some loosening with a cpu overclock. Though, I think there might still be some headroom. 



Jpmboy said:


> zerophase said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think G.Skill just took two separate ram kits and stuck them in the same box?
> 
> I'm trying to get in touch with their reps to see if they have more precise insight into this kit. Can't comment on their forums, though since requesting permission to post from admins is broken.
> 
> 
> 
> ah - my bad. I kept thinking (wrongly) that you had 2x64GB kits. I agree tho, I be quite happy with 128GB stable at 2666c11 on x99 with that memory density. very quick for 128GB. /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

I just have to wonder how fast this kit's potential is on Skylake E, or whatever comes next.


----------



## Jpmboy

zerophase said:


> 2800 12 12 12 32 2T is stable. Can't get any lower yet.
> 
> 2666 11 11 11 30 1T is stable, and it looks like 280 tRFC is going to come back as stable too. I'm sure it's going to need some loosening with a cpu overclock. Though, I think there might still be some headroom.
> 
> 
> 
> I just have to wonder how fast this kit's potential is on Skylake E, or whatever comes next.


I've been running a 3200c14 64GB (8x8GB) kit on my R5E-10 at 3400c13, well for a very long time now at 1.45V VDIMM (since launch). Still solid. 128GB is always a challenge. 
(it is running boinc during that snip on the 2 GPUs  )

you should not have to loosen timings due to a core OC... cache can limit max stable freq tho. Min cache will be 50% of ram speed (or equal to ram frequency). My 6950X cache idles at 1700


----------



## KedarWolf

zerophase said:


> Thanks to your suggestions I was able to get 2800 passing training and stable at looser timings than 2666. Still need to see if I can crank those primary timings down a bit.
> 
> Voltages for each were:
> 2800: 1.4 vdimm, 1.1 vccsa, 1.15 vccio
> 2666: 1.38 vdimm, 1.07 vccsa, 1.07 vccio
> 
> 2933 and 3000 will probably take 1.45 vdimm for training. Is 1.45 vdimm for training safe? Might spike up to 1.47.
> 
> Wish I could get 3200 stable.


Search my Username. I have a post of a Corsair 128GB LPX 3000 kit stable at 3200 on X99 with BIOS screenshots.

It might help you.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Search my Username. I have a post of a Corsair 128GB LPX 3000 kit stable at 3200 on X99 with BIOS screenshots.
> 
> It might help you.


^^ may be the only successful example out there! :thumb:


----------



## zerophase

KedarWolf said:


> Search my Username. I have a post of a Corsair 128GB LPX 3000 kit stable at 3200 on X99 with BIOS screenshots.
> 
> It might help you.


Thanks I'll have to check that out.

The final speeds for now. Sure, I'll tweak ram a bit more later.

Not sure if I should just let the bios decide tRFC. 280 passed one hour of GSAT, but doesn't stability with that vary based on clock speed?


----------



## Superbegita

Hi guys ! Tell me..if someone will have some excellents timings for ram on Coffeelake ? I have notice that i can boot to 4500Mhz without problems problems but..i also notice that on CPU-Z my ram is still showed as 4000Mhz (2000Mhz of course in fact) so i was wondering how to? Thanks you by advance !

By the way have an exact idea what is the exact limite of the ram on a Z370 motherboard? I have a Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 (their best one)


----------



## zerophase

Might actually be able to get this ram a bit higher. I just noticed I've left the slow mode toggle on for the past year from when I was melting Indigo Xtreme to my ihs. Didn't really notice any slowdown with the computer. Does slow mode even do anything if the ln2 jumper isn't on?


----------



## Superbegita

Personnaly i have delidded my 8700K and also replace the original IHS by a one in total 100% cuivre so.. ^^

Ah it seem my true limit is 4200Mhz. I can boot to 4266Mhz until 4500Mhz but it seem that the BIOS and other considere i am at 4000Mhz. But 4200Mhz i am really at . Timing in 18-18-18-36-304 in 2T of course. I just use the Extreme preset for Ryzen actuazlly but i know i can do better yet.

Is anyone had a clue or other software for that?


----------



## WiSH2oo0

truehighroller1 said:


> Ok This is official for me and I am done tweaking for awhile lol. Twenty instances.


Am I reading this right? You're running a vCore of avg 1.923 and max 1.952? If so that doesn't look safe to me at all.


----------



## Haans249

WiSH2oo0 said:


> Am I reading this right? You're running a vCore of avg 1.923 and max 1.952? If so that doesn't look safe to me at all.


He is running 1.25, the 1.95 is his VCCIN or CPU Input Voltage which is the voltage being fed to the CPU voltage controller, not the voltage being fed to the CPU.


----------



## Haans249

zerophase said:


> Might actually be able to get this ram a bit higher. I just noticed I've left the slow mode toggle on for the past year from when I was melting Indigo Xtreme to my ihs. Didn't really notice any slowdown with the computer. Does slow mode even do anything if the ln2 jumper isn't on?


Good question, not sure of the answer on that. 

As far as your memory, dont let it set tRFC to auto, that is the #1 secondary timing that affects both bandwidth and latency. If 280 is not completely stable, bump it up +20 increments until fully stable.

Also, since you got 2800 stable at C12, i’d go with that. Drop your tRFC down to 320 and retest until you find lowest max stable. You’d be all set at that point.


----------



## WiSH2oo0

Haans249 said:


> He is running 1.25, the 1.95 is his VCCIN or CPU Input Voltage which is the voltage being fed to the CPU voltage controller, not the voltage being fed to the CPU.


Yeah I wasn't sure because I seen the vCore in the upper left hand corner as well reading a different number at v1.250.


----------



## zerophase

Haans249 said:


> Good question, not sure of the answer on that.
> 
> As far as your memory, dont let it set tRFC to auto, that is the #1 secondary timing that affects both bandwidth and latency. If 280 is not completely stable, bump it up +20 increments until fully stable.
> 
> Also, since you got 2800 stable at C12, i’d go with that. Drop your tRFC down to 320 and retest until you find lowest max stable. You’d be all set at that point.


Yeah, I ended up going back up to C12 on 2666. While running GSAT for 3 hours I managed one error. At that point I might as well go up to C12 and drop some voltage off of the ram. I've killed two Haswell-E IMCs with what I thought was safe voltage. Isn't 2666 at C11 faster than 2800 at C12? Is CAS / (1/2) frequency not the correct calculation? I could probably get C13 stable for 3 hours on 2800 might have to give that a try later on.

By the way, does cache speed impact memory training? I tried switching to adaptive voltage and as soon as I set different min and max values for the cache the system froze just about every boot up. As long as I give the cache a manual voltage and keep it pegged at a multiplier of 41 no instability issues show up during boot.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ops wrong section XD


----------



## Asus11

been overclocking the 8700k last day or two

managed 5ghz 0 avx 46 cache 1.335v .. my OCD wants 47 cache tbh.. might need more volts though

also did not want to touch ram as need to use PC & don't have 1-2weeks spare to tweak 100% 

used a settings in MSI bios '' Memory Tryit!'' previously the max overclock I had with my golden 6700k was 3733mhz PC would not boot past this

I booted up perfectly at 4000mhz c18 anything over 4000mhz would no go with the memorytryit settings.

I thought what the hell this memorytryit can't be that good.. well it passed HCI 1500% couldn't ask for much more! I will be back in future to tackle the ram right down to the last number another time but for now im happy.

original sticks are (16gb x 2) G Skill Ripjaw V 3200CL14 overclocked to 4000c18 1.4v, happy to be in the 4k club lol can't wait for 5k.












my previous Aida Memory benchmark with the same sticks but 6700k












my new quick & dirty one click memory overclock with 8700k


----------



## Jpmboy

that memorytryit did good! Will 1T work also?


----------



## Asus11

Jpmboy said:


> that memorytryit did good! Will 1T work also?


I know right.. 16gb sticks hitting 4000 casually! yup I hit the wall after 4k with memorytryit so I tried my luck with 1t but no luck hehe

to be honest im happy either way


----------



## Jpmboy

Asus11 said:


> I know right.. 16gb sticks hitting 4000 casually! yup I hit the wall after 4k with memorytryit so I tried my luck with 1t but no luck hehe
> 
> to be honest im happy either way


gonna have to change your username.


----------



## Superbegita

Asus11 said:


> been overclocking the 8700k last day or two
> 
> managed 5ghz 0 avx 46 cache 1.335v .. my OCD wants 47 cache tbh.. might need more volts though
> 
> also did not want to touch ram as need to use PC & don't have 1-2weeks spare to tweak 100%
> 
> used a settings in MSI bios '' Memory Tryit!'' previously the max overclock I had with my golden 6700k was 3733mhz PC would not boot past this
> 
> I booted up perfectly at 4000mhz c18 anything over 4000mhz would no go with the memorytryit settings.
> 
> I thought what the hell this memorytryit can't be that good.. well it passed HCI 1500% couldn't ask for much more! I will be back in future to tackle the ram right down to the last number another time but for now im happy.
> 
> original sticks are (16gb x 2) G Skill Ripjaw V 3200CL14 overclocked to 4000c18 1.4v, happy to be in the 4k club lol can't wait for 5k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my previous Aida Memory benchmark with the same sticks but 6700k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my new quick & dirty one click memory overclock with 8700k



Humm hi mate ! I see you are like me for the ram on the 8700K ^^

Humm tell me have you timings for 3900/4000Mhz? I don't know if you have notice this but it look like that passes a certain point of frequency the results goes very down on Aida64 (for me by example if i reach 4000Mhz it will show me some 175000 MB in writing... - -) I am recognized on the task manager, SIV from Gigabyte and other like CPU-Z until 420Mhz..Pass this point i can boot untile 4500Mhz..UT ! in this case...the bios and other will show me like if i was only at 4000Mhz so there is no point to reach that

Have you the same by hasard? 

I have to say that i have the same resultats as you but at 3900Mhz for the ram in 19-19-19 etc 2T for 46/47ns of latency.


----------



## Asus11

Superbegita said:


> Humm hi mate ! I see you are like me for the ram on the 8700K ^^
> 
> Humm tell me have you timings for 3900/4000Mhz? I don't know if you have notice this but it look like that passes a certain point of frequency the results goes very down on Aida64 (for me by example if i reach 4000Mhz it will show me some 175000 MB in writing... - -) I am recognized on the task manager, SIV from Gigabyte and other like CPU-Z until 420Mhz..Pass this point i can boot untile 4500Mhz..UT ! in this case...the bios and other will show me like if i was only at 4000Mhz so there is no point to reach that
> 
> Have you the same by hasard?
> 
> I have to say that i have the same resultats as you but at 3900Mhz for the ram in 19-19-19 etc 2T for 46/47ns of latency.


I did not overclock these I just clicked one option in the bios, so I cannot really comment on this yet also I have an MSI mobo not Gigabyte, it might be something to do with your mobo maybe?




Jpmboy said:


> gonna have to change your username.



Asus don't deserve my money this time round with the ITX range hehe, I tried Asrock for the first time & remembered why I have been dodging them all along, then thought what the hell lets go MSI, its been great so far.

also the icing on the cake was g.skill hitting 5ghz with my exact mobo makes me even happier I chose this


----------



## Jpmboy

Asus11 said:


> I did not overclock these I just clicked one option in the bios, so I cannot really comment on this yet also I have an MSI mobo not Gigabyte, it might be something to do with your mobo maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asus don't deserve my money this time round with the ITX range hehe, I tried Asrock for the first time & remembered why I have been dodging them all along, then thought what the hell lets go MSI, its been great so far.
> 
> also the icing on the cake was g.skill hitting 5ghz with my exact mobo makes me even happier I chose this


I think these manufacturers take turns in ITX. WE have the Impact, the MOCF, and now it's looking like the MSI ITX is this gen's winner!


----------



## Haans249

Asus11 said:


> I know right.. 16gb sticks hitting 4000 casually! yup I hit the wall after 4k with memorytryit so I tried my luck with 1t but no luck hehe
> 
> to be honest im happy either way


Re-run your AIDA benchmarks using your 3733 C15 1T setting and compare. Looks like it's faster than your 4000 setting at C18/19! Also with lower latency (but that might be a difference between architectures). While higher Mhz theoretically means higher bandwidth, that is not likely the case in practice. Slower speed with really tight timings will always be faster than faster speed and very loose timings.


----------



## jugs

Hey guys,

I've got a 8700k @ 5.0GHz no AVX offset on the Asus Z370-I working on some RAM OC. Problem is I have no idea how to come up with these timings, so I'm just trying random numbers from this thread.

The weird thing about my motherboard is that the system (VCCIO/VCCSA/DRAM) voltages in HWINFO64 are much higher than what I've entered in the BIOS. As you can see in the screenshot.

For some reason, no matter what, I can't boot in 1T over 3400MHz. I'm using the G.SKILL 3600C15 kit that jpmboy recommended, and I can easily do 4133 @ 17-17-17-32-2T from some timings I stole from KW a few pages back. (verified GSAT 1h & Memtest 1000%+)

I've been through a good amount of this thread but I still have no clue on how to come up with these timings. Please help!


----------



## kignt

jugs said:


> ...I'm using the G.SKILL 3600C15 kit that jpmboy recommended, and I can easily do 4133 @ 17-17-17-32-2T from some timings I stole from KW a few pages back. (verified GSAT 1h & Memtest 1000%+)
> 
> I've been through a good amount of this thread but I still have no clue on how to come up with these timings. Please help!


4133 is about 14.8% faster than 3600, therefore the timings should be 14.8% longer. 
For 3400: 3400 is roughly 5% slower than 3600, therefore 5% shorter timing than 15 is roughly 14.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hello,
So I currently have a 3600 (16 16 36 - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK) 4x8Gb kit from Gskil on a Formula X.

I'm having hard even posting at 3600c16. I aware that having 4 sticks is kind of asking for troubles but I needed 32Gb. Anyway, 3200c14 is enough for my usage.
I tried 14 14 34 1T at 1.35V, Vccio 1,2125V and VSA 1.225V. I got one error at 550% HCI.


So as of now, it is at 14 14 34 2T and with Vccio 1.15V and VSA 1.175V since I read these voltages at that speed may have been a bit high. I'm running HCI (at the moment of writing this, no error at 150%).


Anything I did wrong ? What can I improve ?


Much thanks


----------



## jugs

Some more random stolen numbers that work...

jugs---i7-8700k @5.0/4.4---4133Mhz-C17-17-17-37-2T---1.392v---SA 1.208v---VCCIO 1.168---GSAT---1 Hour

G.SKILL F4-3600C15D-16GTZ
stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 14400
I didn't get rid of the power spikes, not sure why people are doing that...


----------



## pantsaregood

I've managed 4000% HCI Memtest on 32 GB (4x8GB) on a 7820X with 0.975V VCCSA and 1.4V VDIMM at DDR4-4000 17-17-17-34-1T with tRFC at 325. I get read speeds of about 111 GB/s, write at 100 GB/s, and copy at 91 GB/s. DDR4-3600 at 16-16-16-32-1T drops read speeds to around 102 GB/s, but write and copy speeds increase to above 105 GB/s.

Are there any specific timings I should be playing with to get write and copy speeds to improve? Even pushing VDIMM up to 1.45V doesn't allow me to run 16-16-16-32-1T or even 16-17-17-34-1T.


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> I've managed 4000% HCI Memtest on 32 GB (4x8GB) on a 7820X with 0.975V VCCSA and 1.4V VDIMM at DDR4-4000 17-17-17-34-1T with tRFC at 325. I get read speeds of about 111 GB/s, write at 100 GB/s, and copy at 91 GB/s. DDR4-3600 at 16-16-16-32-1T drops read speeds to around 102 GB/s, but write and copy speeds increase to above 105 GB/s.
> 
> Are there any specific timings I should be playing with to get write and copy speeds to improve? Even pushing VDIMM up to 1.45V doesn't allow me to run 16-16-16-32-1T or even 16-17-17-34-1T.


these x299 quad channel timings have been stable since putting this rig together. HCi and GSAT stable. 0.795 vsa, 1.4V vdimm. 2x GSkill 3600c15 2x8GB kits.


----------



## mouacyk

My 4266MHz 17-18-18-38 2T @1.45v OC felt stable, through weeks of BF1 and chromium compilations. Figured, I might run it through a long RAMTest session and see what happens. Well, the following happened and it was still going, until I stopped it shortly after 39,000%. The speed is about 165MB/s, forgot to hover my mouse over it. Cache testing was also enabled. Will now have to try HCI also.



Spoiler


----------



## EDK-TheONE

EDK-TheOne -- [email protected] 5.1/4.6 --- MSI Z270 M7 --- 3866 16-16-16-32-2T --- 1.400V --- SA(bios=1.180V) 1.20V --- IO(bios=1.150V) 1.168V --- HCI 400% --- F4-4000C19-8GTZ


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> My 4266MHz 17-18-18-38 2T @1.45v OC felt stable, through weeks of BF1 and chromium compilations. Figured, I might run it through a long RAMTest session and see what happens. Well, the following happened and it was still going, until I stopped it shortly after 39,000%. The speed is about 165MB/s, forgot to hover my mouse over it. Cache testing was also enabled. Will now have to try HCI also.


i doubt it needs more testing.


----------



## Asus11

Haans249 said:


> Re-run your AIDA benchmarks using your 3733 C15 1T setting and compare. Looks like it's faster than your 4000 setting at C18/19! Also with lower latency (but that might be a difference between architectures). While higher Mhz theoretically means higher bandwidth, that is not likely the case in practice. Slower speed with really tight timings will always be faster than faster speed and very loose timings.












but on a serious note when I overclock them properly im hoping for better MHz than 3733 and hopefully better CAS


----------



## Haans249

Asus11 said:


> but on a serious note when I overclock them properly im hoping for better MHz than 3733 and hopefully better CAS


Not you mean. The AIDA memory benchmark takes 5 mins tops. I'm not talking about stability testing (assuming you already did that for your 3733Mhz speed you listed).


----------



## pantsaregood

The settings I posed earlier - over 4000% in HCI MemTest - are behaving unusually. I tried tightening further and received errors before hitting 100%. Backing off and testing my previous 4000% HCI settings errored at under 100% as well.

The only factor I can think of is that my CPU is running quite hot while stress testing due to the fan profile being more subdued. Could the IMC be causing these errors because it's running in the 90s?


----------



## mouacyk

pantsaregood said:


> The settings I posed earlier - over 4000% in HCI MemTest - are behaving unusually. I tried tightening further and received errors before hitting 100%. Backing off and testing my previous 4000% HCI settings errored at under 100% as well.
> 
> The only factor I can think of is that my CPU is running quite hot while stress testing due to the fan profile being more subdued. Could the IMC be causing these errors because it's running in the 90s?


It might be your cache instability revealing itself, so if you have that overclocked, try backing off a bin.


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> The settings I posed earlier - over 4000% in HCI MemTest - are behaving unusually.* I tried tightening further and received errors before hitting 100%. Backing off and testing my previous 4000% HCI settings errored at under 100% as well.*
> 
> The only factor I can think of is that my CPU is running quite hot while stress testing due to the fan profile being more subdued. Could the IMC be causing these errors because it's running in the 90s?


some settings affect other "dependent" timings. You may need to flush the system (clrcmos) before returning to the previously good settings.


----------



## pantsaregood

mouacyk said:


> It might be your cache instability revealing itself, so if you have that overclocked, try backing off a bin.


Any preferred means of verifying cache stability? I'm running 3.2 GHz mesh at 1.05V. It's been like that through Prime95 blend abuse without any errors.


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> Any preferred means of verifying cache stability? I'm running 3.2 GHz mesh at 1.05V. It's been like that through Prime95 blend abuse without any errors.


Unless you have changed your cache settings after passing 4000% HCi, cache would not be the first place to look. Again, when you change primary timings, other dependent timings will change and may not change back simply by returning the primary back to where it was. Things like RTLs and other 3rd timings... and some that we do not have access to in the UEFI.
May also be that the previously stability was right at the margin of alignment, and the parts can/will drift over time (this is why enabling the fast path thru the MRC is not a good long term solution).


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hello, 

bl4ckdot--i7 8700K @5.0/4.6---4000Mhz-C17-17-17-34-2T----1.45v---SA 1.1875v---VCCIO 1.1625---RAM Test 13000%
4x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 Kit

Since I'm more or less a complete noob when it comes to secondary and other timings, where can I improve ?


----------



## mouacyk

bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> 
> bl4ckdot--i7 8700K @5.0/4.6---4000Mhz-C17-17-17-34-2T----1.45v---SA 1.1875v---VCCIO 1.1625---RAM Test 13000%
> 4x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 Kit
> 
> Since I'm more or less a complete noob when it comes to secondary and other timings, where can I improve ?


Try 1T. May need to up SA and VCCIO a bit first, since VDDR seems high enough already. After that, trying bringing TFAW down to around 16, tWR towards 12, then may be bring tRFC down a bit closer to 300. Perhaps, post an AIDA64 bench to give us an idea of the achieved efficiency?


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> 
> bl4ckdot--i7 8700K @5.0/4.6---4000Mhz-C17-17-17-34-2T----1.45v---SA 1.1875v---VCCIO 1.1625---RAM Test 13000%
> 4x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 Kit
> 
> Since I'm more or less a complete noob when it comes to secondary and other timings, where can I improve ?


tFAW can be set as low as 4x tRRD_s, tRAS should be the sum of CAS+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2). Otherwise the board will correct the timing error during post. tFAW and T would be the first to try.


----------



## bl4ckdot

mouacyk said:


> Try 1T. May need to up SA and VCCIO a bit first, since VDDR seems high enough already. After that, trying bringing TFAW down to around 16, tWR towards 12, then may be bring tRFC down a bit closer to 300. Perhaps, post an AIDA64 bench to give us an idea of the achieved efficiency?


Thank you for your feedback. 1T seems to be an "impossible" task since I already couldn't achieve anything close to stable at 3200c14 with SA and VCCIO at 1.225V. It is most probably because of the 4 sticks. I'll post an AIDA64 screen when I get back home.



Jpmboy said:


> tFAW can be set as low as 4x tRRD_s, tRAS should be the sum of CAS_tRCD+tRTP (+/-2). Otherwise the board will correct the timing error during post. tFAW and T would be the first to try.


Thank you aswell. So I can try tFAW at 16, but tRAS is already at 34 (17+17), maybe I understood you wrongly ?


----------



## djgar

bl4ckdot said:


> Thank you for your feedback. 1T seems to be an "impossible" task since I already couldn't achieve anything close to stable at 3200c14 with SA and VCCIO at 1.225V. It is most probably because of the 4 sticks. I'll post an AIDA64 screen when I get back home.
> 
> *Thank you aswell. So I can try tFAW at 16, but tRAS is already at 34 (17+17), maybe I understood you wrongly ?*


I believe he meant CAS+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2) - the old slippery finger thing


----------



## bl4ckdot

djgar said:


> I believe he meant CAS+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2) - the old slippery finger thing


I also misread tRTP as tRP which didn't help my understanding 

So 17+17+6 is 40. Should I set it at 38 to be optimal ?


----------



## CptSpig

bl4ckdot said:


> I also misread tRTP as tRP which didn't help my understanding
> 
> So 17+17+6 is 40. Should I set it at 38 to be optimal ?


Yes, set to 38 and try tFAW at 16. :thumb:


----------



## bl4ckdot

CptSpig said:


> Yes, set to 38 and try tFAW at 16. :thumb:



Ok so, I came back from work and saw that my computer has most probably BSOD while I was away. I had setup an HCI test this morning to be sure, after the 13000% of RAM Test. What could it be ? I have set the *tRAS* to 38 in the meantime.


Edit : bumped SA to 1.2v, VCCIO to 1.1725v and vcore to 1.375v. Ran AIDA64 cache stress test for 1 hour and then RealBenchmark for 2 hours. No errors.
I'm starting an other RAM Test stress test. Will run HCI tonight.


----------



## Jpmboy

djgar said:


> I believe he meant CAS+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2) - the old slippery finger thing


yeah, sorry for the typo. cas*+*tRCD+tRTP


----------



## bl4ckdot

Passed HCI 1000% once again !
bl4ckdot--i7 8700K @5.0/4.6---4000Mhz-C17-17-17-38-2T----1.45v---SA 1.2v---VCCIO 1.1725---HCI 1000%
4x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 Kit

Should I stress test these settings one more time with RAM Test ? Or can I now tweak the tRFC for example ? I've included a screenshot of AIDA, not sure if the full version is needed. I can buy it if necessary.

EDIT : launched a RAM Test with cache enabled before going to work. I need be "100%" sure.


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Passed HCI 1000% once again !
> bl4ckdot--i7 8700K @5.0/4.6---4000Mhz-C17-17-17-38-2T----1.45v---SA 1.2v---VCCIO 1.1725---HCI 1000%
> 4x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 Kit
> 
> Should I stress test these settings one more time with RAM Test ? Or can I know tweak the tRFC for example ? I've included a screenshot of AIDA, not sure if the full version if needed. I can buy it if necessary.
> 
> EDIT : launched a RAM Test with cache enabled before going to work. I need be "100%" sure.


will 1T post? (command rate = 1)


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> will 1T post? (command rate = 1)


Sadly not. I also had lot of errors with 3200c14 1T (with secondary and third timings not tuned, on auto) and could not get anything stable. I more or less gave up on 1T.


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Sadly not. I also had lot of errors with 3200c14 1T (with secondary and third timings not tuned, on auto) and could not get anything stable. I more or less gave up on 1T.


I see you have AID64 (good program!) Can you navigate to the info page as shown below and post up a snip of it?


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> I see you have AID64 (good program!) Can you navigate to the info page as shown below and post up a snip of it?


I got an error at 19000% on RAM Test, I'm bummed  :sad-smile


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> I got an error at 19000% on RAM Test, I'm bummed  :sad-smile


I would not be. that error that far in can simply be thermal effects. I really think that GSAT is the best way to test ram. 2-3 hours even run under windows bash/Ubuntu has not failed me in the long run. Your ram kit should hold 4000c17 (and 1T) without too much trouble. Try 17-18-17

here's the command for 1 hour:

stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200


Make sure to do "sudo apt update", then "sudo apt upgrade" before running stressapptest. The newer commits provide a fix to the memory alloc problem () previously present on the initial BASH install. Also you'll need to manually specify how much RAM to test with the "-M" argument. Auto allocation will fail.

"sudo apt-get install stressapptest"

"sudo apt update stressapptest"

"sudo upgrade stressapptest"

This will ensure you are running the latest version


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> I would not be. that error that far in can simply be thermal effects. I really think that GSAT is the best way to test ram. 2-3 hours even run under windows bash/Ubuntu has not failed me in the long run. Your ram kit should hold 4000c17 (and 1T) without too much trouble. Try 17-18-17
> 
> here's the command for 1 hour:
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
> 
> 
> Make sure to do "sudo apt update", then "sudo apt upgrade" before running stressapptest. The newer commits provide a fix to the memory alloc problem () previously present on the initial BASH install. Also you'll need to manually specify how much RAM to test with the "-M" argument. Auto allocation will fail.
> 
> "sudo apt-get install stressapptest"
> 
> "sudo apt update stressapptest"
> 
> "sudo upgrade stressapptest"
> 
> This will ensure you are running the latest version



Thank you for being so helpful. :thumb:

The last two commands don't seem to work. I have the version 1.0.6 which seems to be the last version on Ubuntu.
I'll launch a test right now.


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Thank you for being so helpful. :thumb:
> 
> The last two commands don't seem to work. I have the version 1.0.6 which seems to be the last version on Ubuntu.
> I'll launch a test right now.


no worries re the last two commands. A fresh install of bash.linux already has the updates. :thumb:


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> no worries re the last two commands. A fresh install of bash.linux already has the updates. :thumb:



Good news, after 3 hours of GSAT : no error. This was with the tFAW optimised at 16.


----------



## CptSpig

bl4ckdot said:


> Good news, after 3 hours of GSAT : no error. This was with the tFAW optimised at 16.


:thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Good news, after 3 hours of GSAT : no error. This was with the tFAW optimised at 16.


QED
cool. now, any issues with other ram stress tests is cache and/or IO voltage.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> QED
> cool. now, any issues with other ram stress tests is cache and/or IO voltage.



Cache is at 46 (so a light oc). It has passed 1 hour of AIDA 64 Cache stress test. Should I focus on VCCIO and re-run RAM Test with cache enabled ?


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Cache is at 46 (so a light oc). It has passed 1 hour of AIDA 64 Cache stress test. Should I focus on VCCIO and re-run RAM Test with cache enabled ?


save your current stable settings to a save slot in bios. If you want to OC the cache, just increase it until is fails aid64 cache test, at that point you'll need to add vcore (which feeds the cache on z370), or back off one multiplier and test again. Cache can cost a bit of vcore and a fair amount of extra heat. 
skim thru the coffee lake OC guide in my sig, or the 2 in the OP of the asus z370 thread (also in my sig).

enter bios with a USB stick in any port. nav to the ASUS overclocking profile menu, select the USB at the bottom and hit ctrl-F2. this will save a TXT file of all bios settings. POst that back here - lets have a look at what may need tweaking.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> save your current stable settings to a save slot in bios. If you want to OC the cache, just increase it until is fails aid64 cache test, at that point you'll need to add vcore (which feeds the cache on z370), or back off one multiplier and test again. Cache can cost a bit of vcore and a fair amount of extra heat.
> skim thru the coffee lake OC guide in my sig, or the 2 in the OP of the asus z370 thread (also in my sig).
> 
> enter bios with a USB stick in any port. nav to the ASUS overclocking profile menu, select the USB at the bottom and hit ctrl-F2. this will save a TXT file of all bios settings. POst that back here - lets have a look at what may need tweaking.



Will do it by monday, not at home at the moment !


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello, 

Well i'm having just a real great time. For some reason my system will work with XMP when my 2 ram sticks are in a certain order and only on the 2nd and 4th slot. Any other configuration will boot at 2133 but wont overclock at all... As well as that if I overclock my ram to 4000 (not xmp) If I bump up the voltage the ram becomes more unstable. 

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm beginning to think it's because I went with the cheaper teamgroup 16gb kit 4000mhz. Or is my board's ram slots screwed?

Any ideas?


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hello,
> 
> Well i'm having just a real great time. For some reason my system will work with XMP when my 2 ram sticks are in a certain order and only on the 2nd and 4th slot. Any other configuration will boot at 2133 but wont overclock at all... As well as that if I overclock my ram to 4000 (not xmp) If I bump up the voltage the ram becomes more unstable.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas? I'm beginning to think it's because I went with the cheaper teamgroup 16gb kit 4000mhz. Or is my board's ram slots screwed?
> 
> Any ideas?


*what board :tiredsmil
*And are slots 2 and 4 the ones your manual says you need to populate when using only 2 sticks.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello I have the Asrock z370 taichi. I didn't know that was a thing.

EDIT: Yep I see that on topic 2.3, page 19 on the manual. Thanks for that info  saved me alot of headache


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> save your current stable settings to a save slot in bios. If you want to OC the cache, just increase it until is fails aid64 cache test, at that point you'll need to add vcore (which feeds the cache on z370), or back off one multiplier and test again. Cache can cost a bit of vcore and a fair amount of extra heat.
> skim thru the coffee lake OC guide in my sig, or the 2 in the OP of the asus z370 thread (also in my sig).
> 
> enter bios with a USB stick in any port. nav to the ASUS overclocking profile menu, select the USB at the bottom and hit ctrl-F2. this will save a TXT file of all bios settings. POst that back here - lets have a look at what may need tweaking.


Here are the settings


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> *what board :tiredsmil
> *And are slots 2 and 4 the ones your manual says you need to populate when using only 2 sticks.


Can you share a .txt file of your current 8700k BIOS settings, @Jpmboy?


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Can you share a .txt file of your current 8700k BIOS settings, @*Jpmboy* ?


unfortunately there is an 8350K and a modified 260 on that board atm... 
And I still need to look thru the txt file just posted.


here's one for the 8700K


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Cripes think I saw that on I Frankenstein


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Cripes think I saw that on I Frankenstein


yeah it ugly... here's 2 more: http://www.overclock.net/forum/27288137-post1177.html

I'm not really interested in the "Prizes" but in case you are interested:
http://www.overclock.net/forum/410-...77-freezer-burn-overclocking-competition.html


----------



## pantsaregood

I had to back off my DDR4 4000 overclock to 18-18-18-38-1T instead of 17-17-17-37-1T. I'm running quad channel with 1.45V VDIMM now. VCCSA at 0.975V and VCCIO at 1.08V. Either my memory controller degraded (odd with VCCSA/VCCIO so low), I got lucky with HCI Memtest when I built this system, or the microcode update for Spectre/Meltdown affected the stability of my overclock.

Latency is still relatively low. I may attempt further tuning later on. As of now, I'm seeing <50ns latency in AIDA64's memory test. Read at 110 GB/s, write at 118 GB/s, and copy at 100 GB/s. tRFC is at 300.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hello,
So I continued my RAM tweaking after looking at Jpmboy settings especially. 

bl4ckdot--i7 8700K @5.0/x---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-37-2T----1.45v---SA 1.2125v---VCCIO 1.1875v---GSAT 2h
4x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 Kit

16-16-16-36 was not stable. I've not managed to boot with 1T or higher than 4000.

16-17-17-37 was stable (RAM Test & GSAT) so I started looking at secondaries timing and did a bit of tuning. 

I have a couple of questions :

1) I see most of the time that the tRAS number is even. My tRAS is odd, is there a problem with that or should I set 38 ?
2) My DRAM WRITE Recovery Time is set at 10 in the bios but show as 14 in Asrock timing configurator, what's the matter ?
3) I've attached my latest bios settings and AIDA Ram benchmarks. What should be my next thing to tweak ?

Thanks again everyone, RAM overclocking is really fun !


----------



## kignt

How does one export bios settings to a text file?


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> So I continued my RAM tweaking after looking at Jpmboy settings especially.
> 
> bl4ckdot--i7 8700K @5.0/x---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-37-2T----1.45v---SA 1.2125v---VCCIO 1.1875v---GSAT 2h
> 4x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 Kit
> 
> 16-16-16-36 was not stable. I've not managed to boot with 1T or higher than 4000.
> 
> 16-17-17-37 was stable (RAM Test & GSAT) so I started looking at secondaries timing and did a bit of tuning.
> 
> I have a couple of questions :
> 
> 1) I see most of the time that the tRAS number is even. My tRAS is odd, is there a problem with that or should I set 38 ?
> 2) My DRAM WRITE Recovery Time is set at 10 in the bios but show as 14 in Asrock timing configurator, what's the matter ?
> 3) I've attached my latest bios settings and AIDA Ram benchmarks. What should be my next thing to tweak ?
> 
> Thanks again everyone, RAM overclocking is really fun !


ram tuning.... you have gone down the rabbit hole and emerged smiling! Good work. regarding the ATC reported tWR, you can check it using the ASUS memtweakit tool. ATC (depending on the version and platform) can get "confused". 
tRAS odd is no problem. but setting one higher or lower is not likely to effect performance or stability. 38 should be fine.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Well, back to 17-17-38 for now. "Real life" stress test AKA games didn't like the c16. Crashes after few minutes. No problem with c17.


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Well, back to 17-17-38 for now. "Real life" stress test AKA games didn't like the c16. Crashes after few minutes. No problem with c17.


sometimes when tightening timings, you may need to bump the vcore and vcache slightly. When you had a stable 16, did you do a few cold reboots between testing? When you do this, the training may drift, so... when you have it solid, enter bios and note the RTL and IOLs for each populated channel, verify that several boots later they have not changed. You can enter these manually once you have them stable. :thumb:


----------



## pantsaregood

Is there any truth to the idea that tFAW should be four times tRRD? I currently have tRRD at 4 and tFAW at 10 and it appears stable. Is there an issue with this?


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> Is there any truth to the idea that tFAW should be four times tRRD? I currently have tRRD at 4 and tFAW at 10 and it appears stable. Is there an issue with this?


Yes... but many boards will correct a timing error during training (and not report it to the OS - very common for the tRAS window when it is set too low, but not too low to fail correction). With FAW it may not be a stability issue, but an efficiency issue (see the Micron work in this area). You can lower many timings to the chipset minimum(which I think 10 is) and retain stability sometimes, but not necessarily improve performance. The relationship between these timings and operation windows is detailed in the JEDEC spec. they look like this:


----------



## Jpmboy

this is probably the best explanation of FAW I have. OCN guys like Raja, The Stilt, and Praz can/might explain further.

_"
__The magic number is just 4 since (within one rank) you have just 8 banks where you can spread your consecutive accesses. The problem lies with the bank activation current drained from the entire array (or bank) of single cells (transistor + capacitor) needed to prepare the memory location to be read. If the consecutive read operations are falling each time in a different ROW within each bank than you have the activation problem kicking in each time. In order to avert a high current drain from the arrays you need to limit the number of consecutive bank activation over a rolling window of time. The reason why you need to prevent the bank from high energy / current drain is because this may cause a Voltage Reference (VR) deterioration. The VR is the standard Voltage level against which earch data read from the bank is compared to verify if what you are reading is 1 or a 0. Risking to alter the VR level may mean that the reliability of what your read or write is compromised._
_However these tFAW and tRRD parameters are usually overestimated and a memory tuner may increase system performances by slightly changing these parameters."_


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> this is probably the best explanation of FAW I have. OCN guys like Raja, The Stilt, and Praz can/might explain further.
> 
> _"
> __The magic number is just 4 since (within one rank) you have just 8 banks where you can spread your consecutive accesses. The problem lies with the bank activation current drained from the entire array (or bank) of single cells (transistor + capacitor) needed to prepare the memory location to be read. If the consecutive read operations are falling each time in a different ROW within each bank than you have the activation problem kicking in each time. In order to avert a high current drain from the arrays you need to limit the number of consecutive bank activation over a rolling window of time. The reason why you need to prevent the bank from high energy / current drain is because this may cause a Voltage Reference (VR) deterioration. The VR is the standard Voltage level against which earch data read from the bank is compared to verify if what you are reading is 1 or a 0. Risking to alter the VR level may mean that the reliability of what your read or write is compromised._
> _However these tFAW and tRRD parameters are usually overestimated and a memory tuner may increase system performances by slightly changing these parameters."_


Nice - thanks! :thumb:


----------



## Blameless

pantsaregood said:


> Is there any truth to the idea that tFAW should be four times tRRD? I currently have tRRD at 4 and tFAW at 10 and it appears stable. Is there an issue with this?


There is no way to fit four row activates in less than four times the row to row delay. You can set tFAW lower, but even if it takes, it's meaningless below 4*tRRD, by the very definition of the timing.

tFAW exists to limit the number of activates in a certain time window to prevent the scenario Jpmboy quotes, in which case it's adding a delay. However, it cannot reduce the delay imposed by other timings.


----------



## encrypted11

Any comments on 3600 C16 TridentZ RGB kits? 
They're fine or do they suck (relative to the non RGB 3600 C16s)


----------



## pantsaregood

What about tRAS "rules?"

I typically see people advise that tRAS=tCL+tRCD+tRP, but it doesn't seem that the default SPD timings on any RAM follows that convention.

Are there any other timings (other than tREFI) that I shouldn't be trying to set as low as possible?

EDIT: To be clear, I did look at the image provided. It seems to clearly imply that tRAS should be tRCD+2*tCCD+tRTP. Should this image be followed exactly to optimize performance and stability?


----------



## CptSpig

encrypted11 said:


> Any comments on 3600 C16 TridentZ RGB kits?
> They're fine or do they suck (relative to the non RGB 3600 C16s)


I have the non RGB kit and it performs very well. I would assume they would perform equally. See the spoiler.



Spoiler


----------



## Lownage

Any tips how I can get 1T stable?

Plus are there any Subtimings I could tighten?

SA/IO and DRAM Voltage are the same for my 17 18 18 38 run. 

TWR lower than 14 leads to errors in RAM Test.


----------



## Jpmboy

Blameless said:


> There is no way to fit four row activates in less than four times the row to row delay. You can set tFAW lower, but even if it takes, it's meaningless below 4*tRRD, by the very definition of the timing.
> 
> tFAW exists to limit the number of activates in a certain time window to prevent the scenario Jpmboy quotes, in which case it's adding a delay. However, it cannot reduce the delay imposed by other timings.



... add Blameless to that list. :thumb:


----------



## pantsaregood

Continuing with my adventures with tuning, it looks like I'm stable at 16-18-13-30-1T. I usually see the three primary timings as being identical or close to identical. Is there any issue with setting timings like this? It definitely improved my read speeds.


----------



## japau

Lownage said:


> Any tips how I can get 1T stable?
> 
> Plus are there any Subtimings I could tighten?
> 
> SA/IO and DRAM Voltage are the same for my 17 18 18 38 run.
> 
> TWR lower than 14 leads to errors in RAM Test.


You could try more VDRAM to see if your RTL's align better. They seem a bit off to me. Rest looks pretty tight as it is. You can max tREFI for benching and try lower tCWL. 

1T anything over 4000 my system hangs even on BIOS. Haven't cracked whats going on. The RBG-kit i had doesn't have problem with 1T like this kit. I guess it would need lot more VDRAM (1.5V+) to run with 1T.


Heres my 4300c17 and 4500c17 1.5V VDRAM testing. 

Kit is F4-3600C16D-16GTZKW.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> sometimes when tightening timings, you may need to bump the vcore and vcache slightly. When you had a stable 16, did you do a few cold reboots between testing? When you do this, the training may drift, so... when you have it solid, enter bios and note the RTL and IOLs for each populated channel, verify that several boots later they have not changed. You can enter these manually once you have them stable. :thumb:


All I did when I tested was clear cmos :/
After a cold boot I saw that I was in fact, not stable. So I went back to third timing on auto to avoid problems, and I now only focus on secondaries timing.
The difficulty for me is that I don't know how to tune them in accordance (eg. 4*tRRD = tFAW, I lack the knowledge of best practice / must do) apart from lowering the timings. 

I'll post later today my settings.


----------



## mouacyk

japau said:


> Heres my 4300c17 and 4500c17 1.5V VDRAM testing.


I would run RAMTest longer. Standard is 10,000%.

My 4266-17-18-18-38-*2T* 1.45v / 1.25vSA / 1.25vIO passed 38,000%, but *1T* has not passed 6000% consistently yet. I've played with combinations of +0.025v Core, up to 1.5v on the RAM, 1.35v on SA and IO. Got errors any where from 1000% to 6000%. Like yours, this kit might not like 1T at these high frequencies.


----------



## encrypted11

CptSpig said:


> I have the non RGB kit and it performs very well. I would assume they would perform equally. See the spoiler.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Thanks, I'll find out the answer in probably 2-3 weeks.


----------



## bl4ckdot

bl4ckdot said:


> All I did when I tested was clear cmos :/
> After a cold boot I saw that I was in fact, not stable. So I went back to third timing on auto to avoid problems, and I now only focus on secondaries timing.
> The difficulty for me is that I don't know how to tune them in accordance (eg. 4*tRRD = tFAW, I lack the knowledge of best practice / must do) apart from lowering the timings.
> 
> I'll post later today my settings.


Settings : due to incorrect reading, tWR is actually set to 15, tWTR_L to 9 and tWTR_S to 8. Everything but primaries and secondaries timing is on AUTO.


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Settings : due to incorrect reading, tWR is actually set to 15, tWTR_L to 9 and tWTR_S to 8. Everything but primaries and secondaries timing is on AUTO.


the stick in channel B D1 is a little off (or ChA D1 is  ). This can be due to variances in the board's traces or the stick's ICs. Sometimes this can be address with vdimm or vccsa or vccio... or simply setting the RTLs manually.

for example, this x299 board has a tight chanel A D0. Regarding the ATC readout... leme check my X Apex for which ATC is working there...


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> the stick in channel B D1 is a little off (or ChA D1 is  ). This can be due to variances in the board's traces or the stick's ICs. Sometimes this can be address with vdimm or vccsa or vccio... or simply setting the RTLs manually.
> 
> for example, this x299 board has a tight chanel A D0. Regarding the ATC readout... leme check my X Apex for which ATC is working there...



I have set ChA D1 to 71 (same as B D1). 69 didn't booted. Should I leave the D0 (69) ? All of them are manual now.

EDIT : from a cold boot (when PSU turned off), it take a long time to get to the BIOS (20sec or so) since I entered RTL manually. Not sure if normal or not


----------



## Jpmboy

no.. it should not take that long. Is it stalling on q-code 49 or 91?


----------



## bl4ckdot

D5. It seems to do to boot sequence multiple time (like 3).


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> D5. It seems to do to boot sequence multiple time (like 3).


add a notch or two of VSA should help with getting thru the d5


----------



## bl4ckdot

Didn't helped. With RTL on auto, it's still a bit long compared to RAM @ stock but still way quicker. Is it a huge deal to leave this setting on auto ?


Apart from this, are my settings relatively ok ? Nothing seems horribly wrong ? I feel like leaving them as they are and call it a day. 4000c17 is very good for me ^^


----------



## Jpmboy

Lownage said:


> Any tips how I can get 1T stable?
> 
> Plus are there any Subtimings I could tighten?
> 
> SA/IO and DRAM Voltage are the same for my 17 18 18 38 run.
> 
> TWR lower than 14 leads to errors in RAM Test.


how did you get those ram dividers with bclk 100? 4300?


----------



## japau

Jpmboy said:


> how did you get those ram dividers with bclk 100? 4300?


DRAM odd ratio mode = enabled. It is next to ram speed in Asus bios.


----------



## Jpmboy

japau said:


> DRAM odd ratio mode = enabled. It is next to ram speed in Asus bios.


lol - maybe it's the 8350K on my z370 rig ATM, but frequencies beyond 4266 are not available with bclk = 100, so that why I asked. Plz put a USB stick in any port, post to bios and hit F12 on the bios screens shown below.


----------



## Jpmboy

pic preview test

ah - BMPs don't preview...


----------



## japau

Jpmboy said:


> pic preview test
> 
> ah - BMPs don't preview...


Here's couple pictures. They go all the way to 8500+.  Z370 Apex 1301 BIOS.


----------



## Jpmboy

AH, 1301... GOTTA FLASH. 

crazy - I just flashed to 1301. I'd be surprised if it this 8350K. I have an 8600K and 8700K. Gotta see if the 8700K will show those ram freqs. :thumb:

edit: swapped in the 8700K... yep, the dropdown list goes to stupid high frequencies.  So the 8350K IMC has encoded limitations. I gotta check the 8600K later.


----------



## pantsaregood

Well, that's unfortunate. RAM test failed after 17500%.


----------



## pantsaregood

Double post, sorry.


----------



## GeneO

pantsaregood said:


> Well, that's unfortunate. RAM test failed after 17500%.


You must not have much RAM or are very patient 😞


----------



## pantsaregood

GeneO said:


> You must not have much RAM or are very patient 😞


32GB. It just failed again at 23302%. I'm not sure if I should back off or not.


----------



## Worldwin

So i got this stable @ HCL 1000% 1.2v IO 1.25V SA 1.4V DRAM 3200C14 G skill 8700K and Z370 Gaming 7

Anyone know what i should tighten next?

Side note: Anyone know if running the stress test on safe mode affect results? The only thing i noticed with safe mode was that max core clock was 3.7ghz vs my standard 5ghz. Also safe mode lets me test at 1250mb *12instances (15000mb total) which is more than what i can test in normal windows.


----------



## pantsaregood

Worldwin said:


> So i got this stable @ HCL 1000% 1.2v IO 1.25V SA 1.4V DRAM 3200C14 G skill
> 
> Anyone know what i should tighten next?
> 
> Side note: Anyone know if running the stress test on safe mode affect results? The only thing i noticed with safe mode was that max core clock was 3.7ghz vs my standard 5ghz. Also safe mode lets me test at 1250mb *12instances (15000mb total) which is more than what i can test in normal windows.



Try CR at 1T. Also, RAM test can fail beyond 10000%.

Your tertiary timings are also write loose. Consider tightening them up.


----------



## Worldwin

pantsaregood said:


> Try CR at 1T. Also, RAM test can fail beyond 10000%.
> 
> Your tertiary timings are also write loose. Consider tightening them up.


Cant get CR1 to post irrespective of settings. Also i am using HCL not ramtest so 1000% is fine.
Which tertiary timings do you recommend to tighten?


----------



## KedarWolf

Worldwin said:


> So i got this stable @ HCL 1000% 1.2v IO 1.25V SA 1.4V DRAM 3200C14 G skill 8700K and Z370 Gaming 7
> 
> Anyone know what i should tighten next?
> 
> Side note: Anyone know if running the stress test on safe mode affect results? The only thing i noticed with safe mode was that max core clock was 3.7ghz vs my standard 5ghz. Also safe mode lets me test at 1250mb *12instances (15000mb total) which is more than what i can test in normal windows.


 3200 CL14 B-Dies at 4200MHZ on my 8700k.

Sorry, wouldn't let me insert into a Spoiler.


----------



## Worldwin

KedarWolf said:


> The Spoiler is me with 3200 CL14 B-Dies at 4200MHZ on my 8700k.


Quite the pointless gloat.


----------



## KedarWolf

Worldwin said:


> Quite the pointless gloat.


So, helping someone possibly getting a better RAM overclock is a pointless gloat.

You're the one that's full of themselves.


----------



## Worldwin

KedarWolf said:


> So, helping someone possibly getting a better RAM overclock is a pointless gloat.
> 
> You're the one that's full of themselves.


What part of "The Spoiler is me with 3200 CL14 B-Dies at 4200MHZ on my 8700k." this is helping? All you have done is gloat about your own results. If you want to give tips like what i can tighten that would be appreciated. But if you are not going to do so please do not respond.


----------



## KedarWolf

Worldwin said:


> What part of "The Spoiler is me with 3200 CL14 B-Dies at 4200MHZ on my 8700k." this is helping? All you have done is gloat about your own results. If you want to give tips like what i can tighten that would be appreciated. But if you are not going to do so please do not respond.


I had trouble inserting the pictures. You said you had an 8700k and 3200 CL14 RAM.

The pictures are all the settings I need to run at 4200 stress tested stable. By trying a higher frequency with similar settings you may be able to get higher than 3600.

The entire point of me sharing the settings.


----------



## Worldwin

KedarWolf said:


> I had trouble inserting the pictures. You said you had an 8700k and 3200 CL14 RAM.
> 
> The pictures are all the settings I need to run at 4200 stress tested stable. By trying a higher frequency with similar settings you may be able to get higher than 3600.
> 
> The entire point of me sharing the settings.


I see. I'll try out your settings when i get the chance. For now i want to focus on 3600 as either my IMC is finicky or the mobo. An example of how stupid the issue is, is when i set it to xmp and 3466, the timings will change from 14 14 14 34 to 16 20 20 54(?). This issue is why I'm focusing on 3600.


----------



## pantsaregood

I don't think it's going to get much better than this. I'll probably go back and tune some of the tertiary timings, but playing with them so far didn't show any improvements in bandwidth or latency. If anyone sees anything here that can help boost my read or copy bandwidth, let me know.

1.45V VDIMM
0.98V VCCSA
1.08V VCCIO


----------



## chibi

pantsaregood said:


> I don't think it's going to get much better than this. I'll probably go back and tune some of the tertiary timings, but playing with them so far didn't show any improvements in bandwidth or latency. If anyone sees anything here that can help boost my read or copy bandwidth, let me know.
> 
> 1.45V VDIMM
> 0.98V VCCSA
> 1.08V VCCIO


Geez, that's some tight timings! Good work :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

4400c18 tight secondaries, auto RTL/IOL

[email protected] 5.2 cache 4.8


----------



## encrypted11

Nice kit there, I've only got mediocre b dies so far.
Hoping the next will be better :/


----------



## mouacyk

Jpmboy said:


> 4400c18 tight secondaries, auto RTL/IOL
> 
> [email protected] 5.2 cache 4.8


Curious how AIDA64 bandwidth looks. And, is your CPU truly an engineering sample?


----------



## pantsaregood

Is there something wrong with the timings I used? They seem excessively tight compared to other timings in the thread. I hope I'm not looking at some hidden instability beyond 32000%.


----------



## Lownage

I just installed the newest released Bios 1301 on my APEX X. Now I can´t seem to get my old settings stable.

My PC doesnt boot with less clockspeed on the memory and shows QCode errors 55, 2b, 49 (same timings, voltages etc. that were stable in RAMTEST ~ 12000% and BIOS 1003). I have to go as low as 4000 MHz to have it boot successfully. 

Did anyone else update their bios and is now having similar problems with their setup?


Besides I was finally able to boot higher speeds (up to 4500, didn´t try 4600) but these weren´t close to being stable and crashed after 50% of RAMTEST.

Maximus X Apex
8700K @ 5GHz Core and Cache @ 1,35V LLC5
IO: 1,2375
SA: 1,25
DRAM: 1,4 for 4300; 1,45 for 4500


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> Nice kit there, I've only got mediocre b dies so far.
> Hoping the next will be better :/


eh, I think my 3600c15 kit is actually more capable than this one.


mouacyk said:


> Curious how AIDA64 bandwidth looks. And, is your CPU truly an engineering sample?


yes - it's an ES. only 8700K I've had.


----------



## encrypted11

CptSpig said:


> I have the non RGB kit and it performs very well. I would assume they would perform equally. See the spoiler.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Relative to my 4266 C19 kit (that were already kinda mediocre), the 3600 16GB RGB kit's pretty trashy that I wouldn't attempt getting GSAT out of it. 
From the May 2018 production run.

It wouldn't do my 4000MHz C16-1T profile of my 4266/3200 b die kits even with 5 retries, or 1.45V..
IOL/RTL's would drift horribly still, with lower frequencies. Such a disappointment. 

I think I'm up for the 4000 1.35V 17-17-17-37 RGB kit next, it's probably the logical choice since GSKILL's progressing with saturating the market with the tight bins progressively and the 3600 C16 kits are probably not as good as they were used to. I hope the PITA isn't a by product of RGB kits.


----------



## pantsaregood

Could someone try to explain how dual rank memory could outperform my current setup of single rank memory?

DDR4-4000 with tight timings on a 7820X at 4.8 GHz with 3.2 GHz mesh lands me at 114 GB/s read, 120 GB/s write, 102 GB/s copy, and latency of 49.5ns. I'm running fairly close to the theoretical limit of 125 GB/s for read/write/copy operations - I can see how dual rank memory at the same clock speed and similar timings could possibly offer more performance, but I can't understand how recent claims of "DDR4-3000 dual rank outperforms DDR4-4000 single rank" could possibly be true in this case.

Is it because motherboards train secondary and tertiary timings to absolutely awful values when running at high frequencies?


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> Could someone try to explain how dual rank memory could outperform my current setup of single rank memory?
> 
> DDR4-4000 with tight timings on a 7820X at 4.8 GHz with 3.2 GHz mesh lands me at 114 GB/s read, 120 GB/s write, 102 GB/s copy, and latency of 49.5ns. I'm running fairly close to the theoretical limit of 125 GB/s for read/write/copy operations - I can see how dual rank memory at the same clock speed and similar timings could possibly offer more performance, but I can't understand how recent *claims of "DDR4-3000 dual rank outperforms DDR4-4000 single rank" could possibly be true in this case.*
> 
> Is it because motherboards train secondary and tertiary timings to absolutely awful values when running at high frequencies?


seriously doubt that statement. where did you see this? Thing is with dual rank, you probably will not get near 4000 with those timings and 3000 is gonna need cas 12 to get near 4000c16 with latency


I've been running 32GB at 4000c16 since the platform launched. (gsat, hci stable)


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy -- [email protected] 5.2 cache @ 4.6, [email protected], Vsa 1,2625, vccio 1.2375. 4400c19 gskill 2x8GB kit. GSAT 1 hour. (stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200)



cache at 4.8 (with no increase in voltage) errors-out immediately (hardware error - mismatch)... So, if you hit a freq wall, try lowering cache a notch or two.


----------



## Nizzen

Jpmboy said:


> jpmboy -- [email protected] 5.2 cache @ 4.6, [email protected], Vsa 1,2625, vccio 1.2375. 4400c19 gskill 2x8GB kit. GSAT 1 hour. (stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200)
> 
> 
> 
> cache at 4.8 (with no increase in voltage) errors-out immediately (hardware error - mismatch)... So, if you hit a freq wall, try lowering cache a notch or two. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


Crazy!

Nice job youngboy 😄


----------



## Jpmboy

Nizzen, there you are... :thumb


----------



## Lownage

I currently am running 4400 18 19 19 28 2T with 1,4V on DRAM (SA 1,275, IO 1,2375).

I want at least 18 18 18 28 or a higher clock (4500 boots, however it gives me errors).

Increasing the DRAM Voltage to 1,45 results in errors in RAMtest. 

Tried lowering tREFI to 16667 and increasing tRFC to 400, as I read that these were depending on voltage/temperature but RAMtest crashed after 300%.

Does one of you guys know why 1,45Volt on DRAM makes my system become unstable?


CPU Core and Cache are both at 5GHz @ 1,35V LLC5.


----------



## Worldwin

Has anyone had problems after passing HCL 1000%+ but drivers crash due to the mem OC?


----------



## Jpmboy

Lownage said:


> I currently am running 4400 18 19 19 28 2T with 1,4V on DRAM (SA 1,275, IO 1,2375).
> 
> I want at least 18 18 18 28 or a higher clock (4500 boots, however it gives me errors).
> 
> Increasing the DRAM Voltage to 1,45 results in errors in RAMtest.
> 
> Tried lowering tREFI to 16667 and increasing tRFC to 400, as I read that these were depending on voltage/temperature but RAMtest crashed after 300%.
> 
> Does one of you guys know why 1,45Volt on DRAM makes my system become unstable?
> 
> 
> CPU Core and Cache are both at 5GHz @ 1,35V LLC5.



what peak temperature are the sticks hitting when running ramtest? (HWI, SIV64 and AID64 will report the dimm temps)


----------



## Jpmboy

Lownage said:


> I currently am running 4400 18 19 19 28 2T with 1,4V on DRAM (SA 1,275, IO 1,2375).
> 
> I want at least 18 18 18 28 or a higher clock (4500 boots, however it gives me errors).
> 
> Increasing the DRAM Voltage to 1,45 results in errors in RAMtest.
> 
> Tried lowering tREFI to 16667 and increasing tRFC to 400, as I read that these were depending on voltage/temperature but RAMtest crashed after 300%.
> 
> Does one of you guys know why 1,45Volt on DRAM makes my system become unstable?
> 
> 
> CPU Core and Cache are both at 5GHz @ 1,35V LLC5.



so just so you know, tRAS window has to be open for the entire time it takes to complete CAS, RCD and RTP. Any shorter and the window closes before completion of operations... leading to inefficiency or errors, but the cpu/chipset will correct this timing error during training and not report the substituted value for that post. It may not be exactly yhr same on each post due to alignments, margins, etc. Raja has explained this several times, and the JEDEC standard is pretty clear on RAS. So, you are running (or programming in) what is the chipset minimum of 28. back this off to cas+rcd+rtp +/-2 and it may help with stability (especially between cold boots if you have training on Auto)


----------



## pantsaregood

Jpmboy said:


> so just so you know, tRAS window has to be open for the entire time it takes to complete CAS, RCD and RTP. Any shorter and the window closes before completion of operations... leading to inefficiency or errors, but the cpu/chipset will correct this timing error during training and not report the substituted value for that post. It may not be exactly yhr same on each post due to alignments, margins, etc. Raja has explained this several times, and the JEDEC standard is pretty clear on RAS. So, you are running (or programming in) what is the chipset minimum of 28. back this off to cas+rcd+rtp +/-2 and it may help with stability (especially between cold boots if you have training on Auto)


Does this mean that a lot of RAM kits have nonsense tRAS SPD/XMP values? It isn't unusual to see something like 19-19-19-39. Even if tRTP is at the chipset minimum of 4, tRTP+tRCD+tCAS is 42, which places a tRAS of 39 out of the tolerance of 2 advised.


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> so just so you know, tRAS window has to be open for the entire time it takes to complete CAS, RCD and RTP. Any shorter and the window closes before completion of operations... leading to inefficiency or errors, but the cpu/chipset will correct this timing error during training and not report the substituted value for that post. It may not be exactly yhr same on each post due to alignments, margins, etc. Raja has explained this several times, and the JEDEC standard is pretty clear on RAS. So, you are running (or programming in) what is the chipset minimum of 28. back this off to cas+rcd+rtp +/-2 and it may help with stability (especially between cold boots if you have training on Auto)


I have no coldboot issues at all. 

Should I still change it to a value between 54 and 58 (18+19+19 +/-2)? 



Jpmboy said:


> what peak temperature are the sticks hitting when running ramtest? (HWI, SIV64 and AID64 will report the dimm temps)


They are between 40°C and 45°C.


----------



## Lownage

Worldwin said:


> Has anyone had problems after passing HCL 1000%+ but drivers crash due to the mem OC?


No Problems at all for me. 

Maybe your DRAM refresh intervall is too high for normal use? HCI doesn´t detect instabilities from tREFI. You could try 16667 or even lower.


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> *Does this mean that a lot of RAM kits have nonsense tRAS SPD/XMP values*? It isn't unusual to see something like 19-19-19-39. Even if tRTP is at the chipset minimum of 4, tRTP+tRCD+tCAS is 42, which places a tRAS of 39 out of the tolerance of 2 advised.


 yes it does. the requirements are simple arithmetic, no mystery. 

_"tRAS is the minimum time the row should be active. The row needs to be active for the entire duration it takes to perform tRCD, CAS and tRTP. Any lower and the chipset has to apply the minimum value arbitrarily - there may be an additional penalty for the collision as well.
So while it may look nice in screenshots to set tRAS to some low value (below the min threshold) in reality it is not helping and may be worse than setting the correct minimum value instead on relying on the IMC to correct the timing issue."_




AND in response to another post with RAS below the required value:



_"No need for tRAS at 30. It's below the minimum time so the chipset will have to resort to some arbitrary timing. tRCD is the time it take to latch the row and transfer the data into the sense amps. CAS is the time it takes to find the column address have have the data ready for burst. Adding those two together brings you to 30 clocks. Each burst is 4 clock cycles in length. That brings you to 34. However, tRTP is set to 10. Which means that 40 clocks must elapse before tRAS elapses and the precharge command can be sent to transfer the data in the sense amps back into the dram cells. The minimum proper tRAS value for your setup is therefore 40 clocks.
All of the timings follow the same laws as DDR3 for minimum value, apart from tRRD_L which has a minimum spacing of 6 clocks"_





Lownage said:


> I have no coldboot issues at all.
> 
> Should I still change it to a value between 54 and 58 (18+19+19 +/-2)?
> They are between 40°C and 45°C.


tRTP, not tRP. at 45C you may be getting thermally-induced errors. RAMtest does not distinguish between a true ram error and an error on the CPU (cache). This is why I prefer GSAT. 
cold boot as in the value can be different depending on conditions and drift.


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> yes it does. the requirements are simple arithmetic, no mystery.
> 
> tRTP, not tRP. at 45C you may be getting thermally-induced errors. RAMtest does not distinguish between a true ram error and an error on the CPU (cache). This is why I prefer GSAT.
> cold boot as in the value can be different depending on conditions and drift.


Set tRAS to 42 and tried 44. Works with 1,4V on DRAM but crashes with 1,45V. 
Both times my RAM maxed out at 43°C, so temperature shouldn´t be an issue (since 1,4V runs fine).

Tried lowering the Cache to 4,6 GHz, still crashes with 1,45V.

Right now im running RAMtest with lower SA (1,25) and IO (1,2125) voltage. If this runs stable, I´ll try to run it with 1,45V DRAM again.


----------



## Jpmboy

Lownage said:


> Set tRAS to 42 and tried 44. Works with 1,4V on DRAM but crashes with 1,45V.
> Both times my RAM maxed out at 43°C, so temperature shouldn´t be an issue (since 1,4V runs fine).
> 
> Tried lowering the Cache to 4,6 GHz, still crashes with 1,45V.
> 
> Right now im running RAMtest with lower SA (1,25) and IO (1,2125) voltage. If this runs stable, I´ll try to run it with 1,45V DRAM again.


voltage and temperature really do not behave independently, what I'm sayin is just because 1.4V and 43C are good together, does not mean that 1.45 and 43C should be. In fact, 1.45V may require a lower temp than 1.4V to behave correctly.


----------



## Lownage

Ok, I wasn´t able to reduce IO or SA Voltage at all. Still at 1,2375V IO and 1,275V SA.

Any other idea why I can´t get 1,45V stable? Are there any timings which train tighter due to more voltage?


----------



## wingman99

Jpmboy said:


> so just so you know, tRAS window has to be open for the entire time it takes to complete CAS, RCD and RTP. Any shorter and the window closes before completion of operations... leading to inefficiency or errors, but the cpu/chipset will correct this timing error during training and not report the substituted value for that post. It may not be exactly yhr same on each post due to alignments, margins, etc. Raja has explained this several times, and the JEDEC standard is pretty clear on RAS. So, you are running (or programming in) what is the chipset minimum of 28. back this off to cas+rcd+rtp +/-2 and it may help with stability (especially between cold boots if you have training on Auto)


I'm having a reboot error issue with my Gigabyte AUTO memory training is there something I can do? The Primary memory timings that I can see are the same when I have the error 3600 15-15-15-35.


----------



## Worldwin

Lownage said:


> No Problems at all for me.
> 
> Maybe your DRAM refresh intervall is too high for normal use? HCI doesn´t detect instabilities from tREFI. You could try 16667 or even lower.


At my current settings my tREFi is at 14054. These settings passed HCl 1300% so i dunno. I might have some issues with some timings being too tight or something.


----------



## pantsaregood

Lownage said:


> No Problems at all for me.
> 
> Maybe your DRAM refresh intervall is too high for normal use? HCI doesn´t detect instabilities from tREFI. You could try 16667 or even lower.


What's a good test to verify tREFI isn't too high? Mine is maxed out and passes RAM Test for 32000%. If it is possibly unstable, I need to verify.


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> What's a good test to verify tREFI isn't too high? Mine is maxed out and passes RAM Test for 32000%. If it is possibly unstable, I need to verify.



it's an issue of signal decay over time - not easy to test. REFI is the time between the next refresh of a row charge, so long tRefi can lead to signal loss (decay) for data held for "long" periods. Suspend-to-ram may give a test at the margins, but I do not know of any definitive/designed test for refi. 


Lownage said:


> Ok, I wasn´t able to reduce IO or SA Voltage at all. Still at 1,2375V IO and 1,275V SA.
> 
> Any other idea why I can´t get 1,45V stable? Are there any timings which train tighter due to more voltage?


I'm trying to understand what you are attempting to do by running at 1.45V when the timings are stable at 1.4V... is that right?


----------



## pantsaregood

Other than tFAW, tRAS, and tREFI, are there any other timings that shouldn't be set as low as stable? My secondary and tertiary timings are all set as low as I could pass RAM Test for 32000% with. Is there any reason tCL can't be higher than tRP? Or why tRCD can't be higher than both? I'm at 16-18-15 for those now.


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> I'm trying to understand what you are attempting to do by running at 1.45V when the timings are stable at 1.4V... is that right?


My RAM is stable at 1,4V and 18 19 19 42 @ 4400MHz, but I want to lower the primary timings or increase the speed a little bit more.

I hope to do so with a higher DRAM Voltage.


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> Other than tFAW, tRAS, and tREFI, are there any other timings that shouldn't be set as low as stable? My secondary and tertiary timings are all set as low as I could pass RAM Test for 32000% with. Is there any reason tCL can't be higher than tRP? Or why tRCD can't be higher than both? I'm at 16-18-15 for those now.


when lowering some 2nd and 3rd timings, just be sure to check that the change is actually faster (some may be slower but still stable) SPi 32M is a decent test for speed , AID64 is great for bandwidth.


----------



## pantsaregood

Jpmboy said:


> when lowering some 2nd and 3rd timings, just be sure to check that the change is actually faster (some may be slower but still stable) SPi 32M is a decent test for speed , AID64 is great for bandwidth.



The differences I'm getting out of changing secondary and tertiary timings are so small that conclusively measuring a difference in performance would take a load of benchmarks.

As of now, my limitation on RAM bandwidth is closely linked to the mesh speed of my CPU. It is at 3.2 GHz currently. What voltages affect mesh/cache stability? What is the highest voltage I can safely run them at?


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> The differences I'm getting out of changing secondary and tertiary timings are so small that conclusively measuring a difference in performance would take a load of benchmarks.
> 
> As of now, my limitation on RAM bandwidth is *closely linked to the mesh speed of my CPU*. It is at 3.2 GHz currently. What voltages affect mesh/cache stability? What is the highest voltage I can safely run them at?



not just closely linked... scales linearly. voltage depends on the chip sample. "Safe"? This is overclock.net, not 'SafeVoltage.net".


----------



## Jpmboy

A stable 4500c18. 1T is gona require some more tweaking if it is possible with this cpu and ram kit.


----------



## pantsaregood

Jpmboy said:


> not just closely linked... scales linearly. voltage depends on the chip sample. "Safe"? This is overclock.net, not 'SafeVoltage.net".



I know, but it would be stupid to just throw 1.5V at the cache and hope for the best. Usually I'm not terribly worried about degradation because it, at worst, requires dropping the frequency a little. I've heard some horror stories about Haswell-E/Broadwell-E cache overvoltage killing the L3 cache and, as a result, the CPU. I've generally taken Intel's 14nm+ process to be safe for practical purposes up to 1.45V, but I don't know that cache behaves the same.


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> I know, but it would be stupid to just throw 1.5V at the cache and hope for the best. Usually I'm not terribly worried about degradation because it, at worst, requires dropping the frequency a little. I've heard some horror stories about Haswell-E/Broadwell-E cache overvoltage killing the L3 cache and, as a result, the CPU. I've generally taken Intel's 14nm+ process to be safe for practical purposes up to 1.45V, but I don't know that cache behaves the same.


what cpu and MB??


----------



## pantsaregood

Jpmboy said:


> what cpu and MB??



What CPU and motherboard did Haswell-E/Broadwell-E die on? I can't cite a specific case, I just recall seeing cache die. I seem to recall ASUS' OC socket being involved pretty often.

As for my setup, ASRock X299 OC Formula and i7-7820X.


----------



## djgar

@Jpmboy Your 299 rig always shows selected - is that your favorite?


----------



## Jpmboy

djgar said:


> @*Jpmboy* Your 299 rig always shows selected - is that your favorite?


 It does - I have not idea what that means. 

actually all three are "selected". no idea - selected to show?


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> What CPU and motherboard did Haswell-E/Broadwell-E die on? I can't cite a specific case, I just recall seeing cache die. I seem to recall ASUS' OC socket being involved pretty often.
> 
> As for my setup, ASRock X299 OC Formula and i7-7820X.


 lol - I was asking about what cpu/mb you wanted to know a safe Vcahe for. for the 7820x I'd stay _well _below 1.3V vcache for a 24/7 config. You will find that the heat generated by vcache creates diminishing returns for real-world applications


----------



## ESRCJ

To Skylake-X users: Have any of you been able to stabilize a Trident Z RGB kit at 4000MHz CL16/17? I've heard the RGB kits are worse overclockers. I have now tried with two CPUs: 7920X and 7960X, but no luck. I have spent over a dozen hours configuring different timings and voltages, but the best I can do is stable for 100-200% in HCI before I get an error.


----------



## slidero

Say I wanted to buy a 16GB kit for z370 in order to oc it as high as possible with decent cas and mem speed - what should I purchase in order to attain this? Is it based on the manufacturer(samsung hynix micron)?


----------



## Jpmboy

slidero said:


> Say I wanted to buy a 16GB kit for z370 in order to oc it as high as possible with decent cas and mem speed - what should I purchase in order to attain this? Is it based on the manufacturer(samsung hynix micron)?


 samsung B-die. Most any of the Tridents (no LEDs) are. On the ASUS z370 Apex, the 4400c19-19-19 kit works very well ( I have mine running 4500c18 as a 24/7). But in the end, your MB and CPU can be the limiting factors.
Scroll up and see.


----------



## pantsaregood

gridironcpj said:


> To Skylake-X users: Have any of you been able to stabilize a Trident Z RGB kit at 4000MHz CL16/17? I've heard the RGB kits are worse overclockers. I have now tried with two CPUs: 7920X and 7960X, but no luck. I have spent over a dozen hours configuring different timings and voltages, but the best I can do is stable for 100-200% in HCI before I get an error.


What's your tRCD? I can run tCL 16, but tRCD below 18 always results in errors. My kit isn't an RGB kit, though.


----------



## slidero

Jpmboy said:


> samsung B-die. Most any of the Tridents (no LEDs) are. On the ASUS z370 Apex, the 4400c19-19-19 kit works very well ( I have mine running 4500c18 as a 24/7). But in the end, your MB and CPU can be the limiting factors.
> Scroll up and see.


I have an asrock z370 gaming k6 which is a pretty decent board and 8700k @ 5ghz. I'm running some older ram that I bought in 2015, corsair ddr4 4x4GB 2666mhz cl14 which I'm having a hard time getting stable when ocd. Frankly I know buying faster ram will not really increase performance much but I've never fiddled with OCing ram before and I just love throwing money anyway.


----------



## ESRCJ

pantsaregood said:


> What's your tRCD? I can run tCL 16, but tRCD below 18 always results in errors. My kit isn't an RGB kit, though.


17. I have 17-17-17-38 for my primary timings. Bumping up to flat 18s is "more" unstable, as I get errors even sooner. Also, loosening some secondaries make things more unstable. You'd think the opposite would be true...


----------



## Jpmboy

slidero said:


> I have an asrock z370 gaming k6 which is a pretty decent board and 8700k @ 5ghz. I'm running some older ram that I bought in 2015, corsair ddr4 4x4GB 2666mhz cl14 which I'm having a hard time getting stable when ocd. Frankly I know buying faster ram will not really increase performance much but I've never fiddled with OCing ram before and I just love throwing money anyway.


oh yeah...


----------



## encrypted11

slidero said:


> I have an asrock z370 gaming k6 which is a pretty decent board and 8700k @ 5ghz. I'm running some older ram that I bought in 2015, corsair ddr4 4x4GB 2666mhz cl14 which I'm having a hard time getting stable when ocd. Frankly I know buying faster ram will not really increase performance much but I've never fiddled with OCing ram before and I just love throwing money anyway.


Do it!


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yeah 3200 is a better minimum now days but speed really gives minimal gains old ddr4 memory is a lot better than newer rgb crap but seeing you're using it on a dual channel board :/
Best gains are cool higher core clocks and newer cooled gpu's.


----------



## mrsus

any idea why the write speed is so slow compare to the read??


----------



## Jpmboy

mrsus said:


> any idea why the write speed is so slow compare to the read??


post up a snip of asrock timing config or asus memtweak so we can see more timings.


----------



## KedarWolf

mrsus said:


> any idea why the write speed is so slow compare to the read??


Your RAM timings are unstable. I had it happen to me, tweaking them fixed it, second and third timings.


----------



## mrsus

Here the timing, everything is auto for the secondary and third.

Anything out of place ?


----------



## pantsaregood

mrsus said:


> Here the timing, everything is auto for the secondary and third.
> 
> Anything out of place ?


That's the issue. By manually tuning secondary/tertiary timings, my DDR4-4000 scores in AIDA64 went from 104/90/84 to 113/120/103. My understanding is that your RAM is spending a fair amount of time "doing nothing"


----------



## Lownage

mrsus said:


> Here the timing, everything is auto for the secondary and third.
> 
> Anything out of place ?


tWR: 10 - 12
tFAW: there are many formulas on how to set it (TWR+TRRD=TFAW is what I use)
tWRWR_dr and tWRWR_dd: I use 4, some use 8


----------



## kignt

mrsus said:


> Here the timing, everything is auto for the secondary and third.
> 
> Anything out of place ?


RTL D1's, both look too far apart. I thought ideal case is to have them be a difference of 1, and memory training usually auto sets these.

edit: +/- 2 seem normal too.


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> A stable 4500c18. 1T is gona require some more tweaking if it is possible with this cpu and ram kit.


I´d love to see your Aida Benchmark results


----------



## Jpmboy

Lownage said:


> tWR: 10 - 12
> tFAW: *there are many formulas on how to set it* (TWR+TRRD=TFAW is what I use)
> tWRWR_dr and tWRWR_dd: I use 4, some use 8





Lownage said:


> I´d love to see your Aida Benchmark results



how about sharing the "many formula" for FAW.


----------



## kx11

do you guys this is bad ?! hopefully not too bad


my ram is rated 4266mh but currently running it 3800mhz


----------



## Jpmboy

kx11 said:


> do you guys this is bad ?! hopefully not too bad
> 
> 
> my ram is rated 4266mh but currently running it 3800mhz


in all honesty... yeah, that's pretty bad.


----------



## kx11

Jpmboy said:


> in all honesty... yeah, that's pretty bad.



well , that it asus bios auto OC profile but i changed it from 2666mhz to 3800mhz 





how can i enhance it ?!


----------



## Lownage

kx11 said:


> well , that it asus bios auto OC profile but i changed it from 2666mhz to 3800mhz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how can i enhance it ?!


Option 1) load the XMP Profile
Option 2) load any other RAM Profile like 4133 1T Stilt 
Option 3) set clock and timings manually (DRAM Timing Control), dont forget to set correct IO/SA and DRAM Voltage.


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> how about sharing the "many formula" for FAW.


tFAW = tRRD x 4 
tFAW = tRRD+tWTR+tCWL+tRTP 
tFAW = tRRD_s x 6 
tFAW = tWR+tRRD


----------



## kx11

Lownage said:


> Option 1) load the XMP Profile
> Option 2) load any other RAM Profile like 4133 1T Stilt
> Option 3) set clock and timings manually (DRAM Timing Control), dont forget to set correct IO/SA and DRAM Voltage.





yeah the 3rd is not a thing i know how to do exactly , i'll play around with it + goolg whatever i can in this matter


----------



## Jpmboy

kx11 said:


> well , that it asus bios auto OC profile but i changed it from 2666mhz to 3800mhz
> 
> how can i enhance it ?!


 what board, what ram kit? POst a snip of the appropriate CPUZ tabs as a start. 


Lownage said:


> tFAW = tRRD x 4
> tFAW = tRRD+tWTR+tCWL+tRTP
> tFAW = tRRD_s x 6
> tFAW = tWR+tRRD


 AFAIK, only one of those is close to the JEDEC. The four-activation (rolling) window has to "deal" with signal integrity (VR - voltage reference) over clock cycles to access ranks and banks. , it can (but should not) happen faster than 4x tRRD_s (you want to limit the number of consecutive bank activation over a rolling window of time to avoid signal loss). Micron's paper on this specific timing set the pace.

We discussed this a week or so ago in this thread.


----------



## kx11

Jpmboy said:


> what board, what ram kit? POst a snip of the appropriate CPUZ tabs as a start.



oops sory


ram kit Trident Z RGB Series 16 GB (8 GB x 4) DDR4 4266 MHz


and CPUz screenshots


----------



## Nick the Slick

How does this look guys? This seems to be the absolute best I can do on this kit (still need to run GSAT for an hour, only did a quick 10 min run of RAM test so far). 4000 MHz won't boot no matter what (think it's a limitation of the mobo, not the IMC or RAM kit), 1T command rate won't boot no matter what, 15-15-15 isn't stable with up to 1.476v (didn't want to go higher than that). I messed with the secondary and tert timings a little bit, but I'm way out of my league in that regard, any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated. 

Also, what would you do. Run this which requires 1.456v, or increase CAS to 16 (everything else exactly the same) which only requires ~1.36v (verified stable with 1 hour GSAT, 1000+% HCI Memtest, and like 20+ minutes of RAM test)? I'm thinking the .1v extra isn't worth the drop in CAS...


----------



## Jpmboy

kx11 said:


> oops sory
> 
> 
> ram kit Trident Z RGB Series 16 GB (8 GB x 4) DDR4 4266 MHz
> 
> 
> and CPUz screenshots


Good board, good ram kit! I'm guessing the cpu is a 7900X? Is that two 16GB kits mixed?

VCCCIO (IMC by HWinfo) might be a little low, increasing it a notch or two might help.
Try the timings in the shot below. Voltages too. (I have mixed two 16GB kits also... this is not advisable or will require a fair amount of "tuning".)




Nick the Slick said:


> How does this look guys? This seems to be the absolute best I can do on this kit (still need to run GSAT for an hour, only did a quick 10 min run of RAM test so far). 4000 MHz won't boot no matter what (think it's a limitation of the mobo, not the IMC or RAM kit), 1T command rate won't boot no matter what, 15-15-15 isn't stable with up to 1.476v (didn't want to go higher than that). I messed with the secondary and tert timings a little bit, but I'm way out of my league in that regard, any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Also, what would you do. Run this which requires 1.456v, or increase CAS to 16 (everything else exactly the same) which only requires ~1.36v (verified stable with 1 hour GSAT, 1000+% HCI Memtest, and like 20+ minutes of RAM test)? I'm thinking the .1v extra isn't worth the drop in CAS...


yeah, the RTLs are a bit high, but that can be the board's layout (training reads the read-back time, this is related to traces etc). You can do things like lowering tRTP (6) and tRRD (4) and see if it holds. Which GS trident kit is that??


----------



## Nick the Slick

Jpmboy said:


> Good board, good ram kit! I'm guessing the cpu is a 7900X? Is that two 16GB kits mixed?
> 
> VCCCIO (IMC by HWinfo) might be a little low, increasing it a notch or two might help.
> Try the timings in the shot below. Voltages too. (I have mixed two 26GB kits also... this is not advisable or will require a fair amount of "tuning".)
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, the RTLs are a bit high, but that can be the board's layout (training reads the read-back time, this is related to traces etc). You can do things like lowering tRTP (6) and tRRD (4) and see if it holds. Which GS trident kit is that??



Thanks for the suggestions, I will definitely try fooling with those values. I had already lowered tRTP a couple of notches to get my tRAS down, but I'll see if it'll tune a little lower. When you say tRRD, do you mean L or S or both? If S I should be able to drop tFAW as well if it goes lower right? But yea, 58 and 60 are the best I've seen my RTLs train to. With CAS at 16 it usually trains to 60 and 62. I don't think there's anything I can do about that because if I try to set them manually (even if I set them to values that it has successfully self-trained to) it refuses to POST for whatever reason, so i just kind of let them do whatever they want. But anyways, this is the exact kit that I have. Hadn't looked at them in a while, almost $90 more than I paid for them a year ago lol.


----------



## Lownage

Nick the Slick said:


> TI don't think there's anything I can do about that because if I try to set them manually (even if I set them to values that it has successfully self-trained to) it refuses to POST for whatever reason, so i just kind of let them do whatever they want.


Same for me. Even if I set higher values it won´t post. Auto is the only thing that works.


----------



## ssateneth

How does one exactly get 1T CR POSTable, let alone stable at effective speeds of 4000MT/s and higher? 8700k, asrock z370 Taichi, gskill tridentz 2x8gb 4266 19-19-19-39 kit. Just below average IMC? Can't POST reliably above 4000 either, extremely difficult to train (10-50 restarts to train) but once trained, it POSTs every time unless I change a RAM timing. VCCIO 1.136, VCCSA 1.264v according to sensors (was set under 4266 speeds, can probably considerably lower both). Screenshot is mostly tuned primary, tertiary, and IO-L offset. Have not touched secondary yet except for tRFC (tRFC not fully tuned) as other secondary timings dont seem to have a huge impact compared to aforementioned timings.


----------



## encrypted11

C15 4000MHz (even probably 2T) isn't something you'd get out of an average kit but overall you'd have better luck trying those on 1.4V+ VDIMM.

Besides, I've personally had a somewhat underwhelming C19 4266 kit as well (worse than my 3200 C14). This is what I've used on the 4266 (GSAT 5H profile), it isn't a bench stable kit at C15 4000MHz under 1.5V 1T or 2T (my 3200 C14 would do that). tFAW, tCWL and tWR are some of the values it falls behind the latter.


----------



## ssateneth

I'm not afraid of running 1.5v through the DIMMs, upwards of 1.65v on day to day I'm OK with if I know I can get an improvement in timing or frequency. I can get CAS14 on 1.6v set in BIOS (about 1.63v actual) but throws intermittent errors in HCI, and other timings that have big differences (Tertiary timings, IO-L, CAS Write) are just hard walls or already at the most optimum timing possible. I mean these things are nothing like first generation DDR4, where I could easily pull 8-9 watts per DIMM with 1.4v @ 3000MT/s CAS15 (Dual rank). Now modern DDR4 is so power efficient. 1.5v @ 4000MT/s CAS15, only 2.5 watts/DIMM (single rank though, but even then, if dual rank, 5 watts/DIMM) Barely warm to the touch under HCI and Memtest86.

The whole inability to reliably train RAM at 4100 or higher (Even at XMP or extremely relaxed timings all around) just puts a huge wrench in the situation though. If there was some magic setting to fix this, I'd love to know.


----------



## RichKnecht

Is there any advantage of switching from XMP to manual? I tried a few things, but really don't where to start when it comes to OCing RAM. I'm running a delidded 7900X @ 4.7 on all cores with 32GB of Corsair Vengeance 3466 DDR4. Using the XMP settings of 16-18-18-36 in manual mode at the moment. I've read some articles online and some have gotten the RAM to 4133, but I'd love 4000. Is that out of the question?


----------



## pantsaregood

RichKnecht said:


> Is there any advantage of switching from XMP to manual? I tried a few things, but really don't where to start when it comes to OCing RAM. I'm running a delidded 7900X @ 4.7 on all cores with 32GB of Corsair Vengeance 3466 DDR4. Using the XMP settings of 16-18-18-36 in manual mode at the moment. I've read some articles online and some have gotten the RAM to 4133, but I'd love 4000. Is that out of the question?


I doubt you're going to get that kit to go very far as far as clock speeds go. It doesn't look like it's a B-Die kit, so high clocks will be hard to pull off.


----------



## Ironclad17

Trying to get a higher frequency on an ASRock board with bclock. Anyone know what the dll bandwidh and margin limit settings do? I can't find any information.


----------



## Jpmboy

Ironclad17 said:


> Trying to get a higher frequency on an ASRock board with bclock. Anyone know what the dll bandwidh and margin limit settings do? I can't find any information.


it's PLL bandwidth and increasing it can stabilize higher frequencies (phasing). Margin limits in dram or what?


----------



## Ironclad17

Jpmboy said:


> it's PLL bandwidth and increasing it can stabilize higher frequencies (phasing). Margin limits in dram or what?


There are 4 dll bandwidth settings (1067, 1333, 1600, and 1867 and higher) as well as a margin limitwhich states adjust to get better memory margin with default values 0, 1, 2, 2, and 10 in that order. To stabilize a higher memory overclock would I increase dll bandwidth 3 (1867 and higher, default 2) and margin limit (10)?


----------



## Nick the Slick

Played around with my timings some more. Had to put CAS back to 16 as 15 ended up failing GSAT. Was able to lower tRAS and tRTP. Lowered tRRD_L and S. Lowered tWTR_L and S (L is set to 6 in BIOS but shows up as 16 for some reason, shows up as 16 no matter what value I set). Lowered tFAW and tWR. Increased tREFI. Seems to be the best I can do with 1.4v.


----------



## Jpmboy

looks good to me. I'd stand pat.


----------



## kx11

Jpmboy said:


> Good board, good ram kit! I'm guessing the cpu is a 7900X? Is that two 16GB kits mixed?
> 
> VCCCIO (IMC by HWinfo) might be a little low, increasing it a notch or two might help.
> Try the timings in the shot below. Voltages too. (I have mixed two 16GB kits also... this is not advisable or will require a fair amount of "tuning".)
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, the RTLs are a bit high, but that can be the board's layout (training reads the read-back time, this is related to traces etc). You can do things like lowering tRTP (6) and tRRD (4) and see if it holds. Which GS trident kit is that??



it's not 16gb x 2 it's 8gb x 4 and it's not a mixed kit , bought all together 





the attachment isn't working for me


----------



## mouacyk

Nick the Slick said:


> Played around with my timings some more. Had to put CAS back to 16 as 15 ended up failing GSAT. Was able to lower tRAS and tRTP. Lowered tRRD_L and S. Lowered tWTR_L and S (L is set to 6 in BIOS but shows up as 16 for some reason, shows up as 16 no matter what value I set). Lowered tFAW and tWR. Increased tREFI. Seems to be the best I can do with 1.4v.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


That bandwidth reading in GSAT doesn't look right. I think it's hitting virtual memory or something. Should be reading around 40GB/s, not 14GB/s unless you're running some command other than "-W".


----------



## Jpmboy

kx11 said:


> it's not 16gb x 2 it's 8gb x 4 and it's not a mixed kit , bought all together
> 
> 
> the attachment isn't working for me


yeah, I knew it is 32GB... I was asking if it is a single 4 stick kit (4x8GB binned by the manufacturer), or is it two 16GB kits making 32GB. :blinksmil


----------



## Nick the Slick

mouacyk said:


> That bandwidth reading in GSAT doesn't look right. I think it's hitting virtual memory or something. Should be reading around 40GB/s, not 14GB/s unless you're running some command other than "-W".


Wow, you're right. I didn't even pay attention to that. I definitely ran "stressapptest -W -s 3600". I'll try to run it again tonight and see if I get anything different. Perhaps it doesn't run properly due to the Bash on Ubuntu on Windows? I should have included it in the SS but the max mem usage was like 97%, I forgot to look at the page file usage though (if that even tells me anything). What else would cause that and do you think it invalidates the stability results?


----------



## KedarWolf

Nick the Slick said:


> Played around with my timings some more. Had to put CAS back to 16 as 15 ended up failing GSAT. Was able to lower tRAS and tRTP. Lowered tRRD_L and S. Lowered tWTR_L and S (L is set to 6 in BIOS but shows up as 16 for some reason, shows up as 16 no matter what value I set). Lowered tFAW and tWR. Increased tREFI. Seems to be the best I can do with 1.4v.





Spoiler



[email protected]:~$ stressapptest -M 27511 -W -s 30 --pause_delay 3600
Log: Commandline - stressapptest -M 27511 -W -s 30 --pause_delay 3600
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: buildd @ kapok on Wed Jan 21 17:09:35 UTC 2015 from open source release
Log: 1 nodes, 12 cpus.
Log: Defaulting to 12 copy threads
Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
Log: Using memaligned allocation at 0x7f38fac11000.
Stats: Starting SAT, 27511M, 30 seconds
Log: Region mask: 0x1
Log: Seconds remaining: 20
Log: Seconds remaining: 10
Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 1391764.00M in 30.01s 46377.08MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
Stats: Memory Copy: 1391764.00M at 46388.87MB/s
Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s

Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors



I manually set my memory this way to about 90% of my RAM, I don't use a page file on my SSD and if I did stops it from swapping out. Ran it 30 seconds just to get bandwidth speed.

It could be your RAM timings are unstable too. Run AIDA64 memory and cache test. If your write and copy are really slow you know it's unstable timings. 

Edit: Just saw your write and copy seem good. :h34r-smi

Second edit; I'm on an 8700k, but still, something is up with your stressapptest. And that was bash in Windows as well. :blushsmil


----------



## kx11

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, I knew it is 32GB... I was asking if it is a single 4 stick kit (4x8GB binned by the manufacturer), or is it two 16GB kits making 32GB. :blinksmil



so i should increase VCCIO up a bit ? like 1.100 ?!




















currently it looks like this


----------



## Nick the Slick

KedarWolf said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected]:~$ stressapptest -M 27511 -W -s 30 --pause_delay 3600
> Log: Commandline - stressapptest -M 27511 -W -s 30 --pause_delay 3600
> Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
> Log: buildd @ kapok on Wed Jan 21 17:09:35 UTC 2015 from open source release
> Log: 1 nodes, 12 cpus.
> Log: Defaulting to 12 copy threads
> Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
> Log: Using memaligned allocation at 0x7f38fac11000.
> Stats: Starting SAT, 27511M, 30 seconds
> Log: Region mask: 0x1
> Log: Seconds remaining: 20
> Log: Seconds remaining: 10
> Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
> Stats: Completed: 1391764.00M in 30.01s 46377.08MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
> Stats: Memory Copy: 1391764.00M at 46388.87MB/s
> Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> 
> Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors
> 
> 
> 
> I manually set my memory this way to about 90% of my RAM, I don't use a page file on my SSD and if I did stops it from swapping out. Ran it 30 seconds just to get bandwidth speed.
> 
> It could be your RAM timings are unstable too. Run AIDA64 memory and cache test. If your write and copy are really slow you know it's unstable timings.
> 
> Edit: Just saw your write and copy seem good. :h34r-smi
> 
> Second edit; I'm on an 8700k, but still, something is up with your stressapptest. And that was bash in Windows as well. :blushsmil


Ah, yes it was definitely hitting the page file. I ran it again for 30s with the default settings and the page file went from 0% to 3% and the copy speed was ~14000MB/s again. Ran it limiting it to 90% (didn't know how to do that before, thanks for the command) and it looks normal to me now:










I'll have to do another hour run tonight with these settings just to be sure but this config also passed 40+ minutes of RAMtest so I'm pretty confident in their stability.


----------



## Jpmboy

Nick the Slick said:


> Wow, you're right. I didn't even pay attention to that. I definitely ran "stressapptest -W -s 3600". I'll try to run it again tonight and see if I get anything different. Perhaps it doesn't run properly due to the Bash on Ubuntu on Windows? I should have included it in the SS but the max mem usage was like 97%, I forgot to look at the page file usage though (if that even tells me anything). What else would cause that and do you think it invalidates the stability results?


 for 16GB use this command:
"_stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400_"
leave some room for the VM to run in


----------



## Blameless

Thought my IMC was degraded on my current 5820K sample, but it turned out to be a faulty power supply causing my memory training issues. Replaced the PSU and I'm back to the following 24/7 settings on the first DDR4 I ever purchased (2400 Ballistix Sport CL16, ~110 dollars for the 4*4 kit back in 2015):










Very near the absolute limit these will do with unconditional stability. Even going to 2800MT/s requires me to loosen timings to CL14 or 15. Might try tightening tRTP (and thus tRAS and tRC) again, but tighter tRTP is like 0.05% more performance and needs another 25mV on vDIMM.



Nick the Slick said:


> do you think it invalidates the stability results?


Yes. Anything that dramatically reduces the bandwidth will also be reducing the stress being put on the memory and IMC.


----------



## Jpmboy

Blameless said:


> Thought my IMC was degraded on my current 5820K sample, *but it turned out to be a faulty power supply causing my memory training issues.* Replaced the PSU and I'm back to the following 24/7 settings on the first DDR4 I ever purchased (2400 Ballistix Sport CL16, ~110 dollars for the 4*4 kit back in 2015):
> 
> Very near the absolute limit these will do with unconditional stability. Even going to 2800MT/s requires me to loosen timings to CL14 or 15. Might try tightening tRTP (and thus tRAS and tRC) again, but tighter tRTP is like 0.05% more performance and needs another 25mV on vDIMM.
> 
> Yes. Anything that dramatically reduces the bandwidth will also be reducing the stress being put on the memory and IMC.


Now that's an interesting/unusual cause for (only) the ram to misbehave. :blinksmil


----------



## Blameless

Jpmboy said:


> Now that's an interesting/unusual cause for (only) the ram to misbehave. :blinksmil


There were other symptoms as the PSU got worse, but memory training with tighter tRFC and higher tREFI were the first ones I noticed. Probably a funky DC-to-DC converter making the minor rails unstable/dirty.


----------



## ThrashZone

Blameless said:


> There were other symptoms as the PSU got worse, but memory training with tighter tRFC and higher tREFI were the first ones I noticed. Probably a funky DC-to-DC converter making the minor rails unstable/dirty.


Hi,
Sorry missed it what was the bad psu ?
You show 2 corsair and 1 seasonic ?


----------



## Blameless

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Sorry missed it what was the bad psu ?
> You show 2 corsair and 1 seasonic ?


In this system it was a faulty Corsair RM1000x that was causing the issues. Started with subtle problems, but progressed to the point I couldn't get anything to POST with the unit..lights and fans would come on, but nothing else. I'm using a Seasonic Focus Platinum 850 in it now.

Have actually had a whole string of PSU failures recently (that RM1000x, three Seasonic SS-860XP2s, and an old Antec) and I'm thinking it's got something to do with using ultrasonic humidifiers with high metal/mineral content water. Problem is that ultrasonic humitifiers aerosolize stuff that evaporative humidifiers would leave behind. I had to dismantle all of my systems and wash the residue off everything, but the damage seems to have already been done to several of my PSUs. Probably should have read that water test report more closely and realized safe to drink doesn't necessarily mean safe to allow to build up on electronics. Hard to know exactly what happened, as most of the failures were with a line I've always had issues with (and one of the replacement X860 XP2s failed well after I stopped using the humidifiers), but in hindsight it seems more than coincidental.

Regardless, whatever was going on isn't going on now and the new unit in this system lets me do things that I haven't been able to do on it in years.


----------



## Ironclad17

So I delidded my 7700K after months of frustration with being unable to reach XMP with core overclock as well. Turns out the IMC was also seriously affected by poor thermal conduction because now XMP is no trouble. The memory VRM on this motherboard doesn't seem to like voltages above 1.4 so I don't think I can push it much further. If these timings are stable for 24 hours, I'll try some bclock OC.


----------



## KedarWolf

Nick the Slick said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, I will definitely try fooling with those values. I had already lowered tRTP a couple of notches to get my tRAS down, but I'll see if it'll tune a little lower. When you say tRRD, do you mean L or S or both? If S I should be able to drop tFAW as well if it goes lower right? But yea, 58 and 60 are the best I've seen my RTLs train to. With CAS at 16 it usually trains to 60 and 62. I don't think there's anything I can do about that because if I try to set them manually (even if I set them to values that it has successfully self-trained to) it refuses to POST for whatever reason, so i just kind of let them do whatever they want. But anyways, this is the exact kit that I have. Hadn't looked at them in a while, almost $90 more than I paid for them a year ago lol.


Setting DRAM Write Latency and CHA IO_Latency_offset will lower RTLs etc successfully. You want to go as low as you can with CHA IO_Latency_offset and still be GSAT and MemTest stable. I find on my 8700k depending on my RAM speed between 14-16 usually is best. at 4200 I run it at 15 stable. I run 4200MHZ rather than 4400 as I get really great timings at that speed and can have the cache at 5.1GHZ instead of 4.6GHZ with really improves my AIDA64 memory and cache test speeds.




























*Edit: This is with CHA IO_Latency_offset on Auto.*


----------



## DMac84

Need some basic help gentlemen, just got a brand new X299 EVGA Dark, 7980xe (delid from SL) and a successful OC to 4.2 all cores, 3.0 mesh. My issue is my memory (F4-3866C18D-32GTZR) two kits of 16x2, total 64GB G.Skill 3866 18-18-18-2T works fine with XMP and no other changes, auto voltages for dram(1.35), vccsa (0.88), vccio (1.06) but the moment I try to tighten the timings to 17-17-17, or loosen the timings and raise the clocks to 4000, it’s unstable. My question is, what voltage should I adjust first? I’m pretty sure this kit is Samsung b die, so Dram voltage first? Or vccsa or vccio? I’d be happy keeping it at 3800 if I could get some respectable timings, say 16-16-16-1T. Thought? Thanks


----------



## pantsaregood

DMac84 said:


> Need some basic help gentlemen, just got a brand new X299 EVGA Dark, 7980xe (delid from SL) and a successful OC to 4.2 all cores, 3.0 mesh. My issue is my memory (F4-3866C18D-32GTZR) two kits of 16x2, total 64GB G.Skill 3866 18-18-18-2T works fine with XMP and no other changes, auto voltages for dram(1.35), vccsa (0.88), vccio (1.06) but the moment I try to tighten the timings to 17-17-17, or loosen the timings and raise the clocks to 4000, it’s unstable. My question is, what voltage should I adjust first? I’m pretty sure this kit is Samsung b die, so Dram voltage first? Or vccsa or vccio? I’d be happy keeping it at 3800 if I could get some respectable timings, say 16-16-16-1T. Thought? Thanks


Set VDIMM to 1.45V and go from there.


----------



## DMac84

Will do. Thanks for the reply. Max safe vdimm for daily use? 



pantsaregood said:


> DMac84 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Need some basic help gentlemen, just got a brand new X299 EVGA Dark, 7980xe (delid from SL) and a successful OC to 4.2 all cores, 3.0 mesh. My issue is my memory (F4-3866C18D-32GTZR) two kits of 16x2, total 64GB G.Skill 3866 18-18-18-2T works fine with XMP and no other changes, auto voltages for dram(1.35), vccsa (0.88), vccio (1.06) but the moment I try to tighten the timings to 17-17-17, or loosen the timings and raise the clocks to 4000, it’s unstable. My question is, what voltage should I adjust first? I’m pretty sure this kit is Samsung b die, so Dram voltage first? Or vccsa or vccio? I’d be happy keeping it at 3800 if I could get some respectable timings, say 16-16-16-1T. Thought? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Set VDIMM to 1.45V and go from there.
Click to expand...


----------



## Nizzen

DMac84 said:


> Will do. Thanks for the reply. Max safe vdimm for daily use?
> 
> 
> 
> pantsaregood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DMac84 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Need some basic help gentlemen, just got a brand new X299 EVGA Dark, 7980xe (delid from SL) and a successful OC to 4.2 all cores, 3.0 mesh. My issue is my memory (F4-3866C18D-32GTZR) two kits of 16x2, total 64GB G.Skill 3866 18-18-18-2T works fine with XMP and no other changes, auto voltages for dram(1.35), vccsa (0.88), vccio (1.06) but the moment I try to tighten the timings to 17-17-17, or loosen the timings and raise the clocks to 4000, it’s unstable. My question is, what voltage should I adjust first? I’m pretty sure this kit is Samsung b die, so Dram voltage first? Or vccsa or vccio? I’d be happy keeping it at 3800 if I could get some respectable timings, say 16-16-16-1T. Thought? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Set VDIMM to 1.45V and go from there.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

~ 1.5v is fine for ddr4. 

1.5v is within Intel spec for ddr4.


----------



## DMac84

Thanks for the info. I’ll post some screenshots but any thing faster or tighter than XMP settings crashes, even with 1.5 vdimm. I suspect my vccio and vccsa are too low on auto to deal with 64GB of 3800 but unsure what the best way is to test. Vccio is auto at 1.06 and vccsa is auto at 0.86. When I change vccsa to say 1.25, Aida and OCCT error out within seconds. At least on auto these are stable for about 5-7 minutes before throwing errors. If I turn off xmp and manual 2133, all programs are stable in testing so I believe my core and cache are good to go. I’m kinda at a loss. The default XMP timings are no where near good enough for me, and I’d entertain getting another kit. 

One question about Command rate. Changing to 1T absolutely throws errors in all programs or freezes the computer within seconds of stressing the memory. My X99 platform never acted this way. Is this strictly memory controller? Or does vdimm voltage come into play here too?


----------



## glnn_23

Using an EVGA Dark and 7740x at the moment and figuring how to get the memory going ok.

Ram ratios in bios up to 4000mhz can do CR1 but using the highest available 4133 seems to need CR2 to work.

I had to raise the base clock a little to get 4100Mhz c16 16 16 38 1T.


https://imgur.com/a/W3gwYS2


----------



## ESRCJ

It took long enough to finally get this stable.

gridironcpj --- Rampage VI Extreme --- 7920X @ 4.8GHz (4 cores), 4.7GHz (8 cores) @ 1.26V --- Mesh @ 3.0GHz @ 1.10V --- G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR) @ *4000 (C16-18-16-38-1T)* @ 1.46V --- VSA 0.925V --- VCCIO 1.025V --- RAM Test 10,000%

https://imgur.com/Kjmm1de

I'll note that it all came down to vdimm for me. Before I would always try 1.41V maximum and I'd keep loosening timings, yet I would never get stability. Once I started upping vdimm, all went well. 1.45V got me over 1000% coverage, then 1.46V did the trick for the rest. Now the question is, should I be running 1.46V for my 24-7 profile?


----------



## pantsaregood

Do some motherboards have fractional RAM multipliers? I've seen some people running DDR4-4133 seemingly without a BCLK overclock. That would mean the actual clock frequency of the RAM is running at 2066 MHz, which is 15.5*133 if no BCLK overclock is being used. I was under the impression that fractional multipliers essentially fell out of use post-Core 2/Phenom II era.


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> It took long enough to finally get this stable.
> 
> gridironcpj --- Rampage VI Extreme --- 7920X @ 4.8GHz (4 cores), 4.7GHz (8 cores) @ 1.26V --- Mesh @ 3.0GHz @ 1.10V --- G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR) @ *4000 (C16-18-16-38-1T)* @ 1.46V --- VSA 0.925V --- VCCIO 1.025V --- RAM Test 10,000%
> 
> https://imgur.com/Kjmm1de
> 
> I'll note that it all came down to vdimm for me. Before I would always try 1.41V maximum and I'd keep loosening timings, yet I would never get stability. Once I started upping vdimm, all went well. 1.45V got me over 1000% coverage, then 1.46V did the trick for the rest. Now the question is, should I be running 1.46V for my 24-7 profile?



the VDIMM "ceiling" is a CPU issue, not the ram sticks. I have my x99/6950X running 64GB of ram (8x8GB) at 1.45V since the platform launched (what - 3 years?). No problems for the sticks, but the BWE does have a strong IMC.
SKL-E? We're finding out as we go. 
(my x299 is at 1.4V vdimm and good so far...)


----------



## Kana Chan

Gskill made RGB with 4800 17-17-17-37s ( even lower than the 4500C16s from 2 years ago ). Still 20nm or will these be based on the new 10nm stuff?

And 5066 21-26-26-54 ( should be close enough to 4133C17 )


----------



## tistou77

Hello

I test the stability of the ram, yesterday it was ok with 1 hour from Aida64 to 4000 17-18-18 and 1.40v
Today without changing anything, I have an error within 2 minutes ....

I looked out of curiosity RTLs, I've 61/63/61/63 (with 4000 18-18-18 is 63/65/63/65)

But at 3800 17-17-17, I have the same RTLs
The RTLs are related to the CAS, or the RTLs are not good at 4000 17-18-18 ?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Hello
> 
> I test the stability of the ram, yesterday it was ok with 1 hour from Aida64 to 4000 17-18-18 and 1.40v
> Today without changing anything, I have an error within 2 minutes ....
> 
> I looked out of curiosity RTLs, I've 61/63/61/63 (with 4000 18-18-18 is 63/65/63/65)
> 
> But at 3800 17-17-17, I have the same RTLs
> The RTLs are related to the CAS, or the RTLs are not good at 4000 17-18-18 ?
> 
> Thanks


marginal (at the margins) / conditional stability at 4000c17. you may be able to improve stability at 4000c17 by increasing vdimm... 1.425 to 1.45V. Also, VSa and VCCIO are on "Auto" or what voltage?


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> marginal (at the margins) / conditional stability at 4000c17. you may be able to improve stability at 4000c17 by increasing vdimm... 1.425 to 1.45V. Also, VSa and VCCIO are on "Auto" or what voltage?


Ok, no need to touch the RTLs, so

VSA at 0.80v (~0.84v in load)
VCCIO at 1.025v (~ 1.04, 1.05v in load)

I tested at 1.41v and the same, to see increasing the VDIMM

What I find weird is that from one reboot to another, without touching anything, there is an error within 2 minutes while the day before, it was good after 1 hour

Thanks


----------



## wingman99

tistou77 said:


> Ok, no need to touch the RTLs, so
> 
> VSA at 0.80v (~0.84v in load)
> VCCIO at 1.025v (~ 1.04, 1.05v in load)
> 
> I tested at 1.41v and the same, to see increasing the VDIMM
> 
> What I find weird is that from one reboot to another, without touching anything, there is an error within 2 minutes while the day before, it was good after 1 hour
> 
> Thanks


I had the same thing happen after overclocking Gigabyte Z370 G.SKILL Ripjaws v 16GB F4-3200C14D-16GVK to 3600 15-15-15-35 two days of testing with 6 instances of HCI MemTest and not changing my memory overclock settings it has come down to a weird problem with rebooting my Gigabyte z370. Some boots HCI MemTest runs fine without error for 100-400%. Then sometimes after testing for ~1-20 boots I have all kinds of errors with HCI MemTest preliminary test or at 1%-30% after the last good test.


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Ok, no need to touch the RTLs, so
> 
> VSA at 0.80v (~0.84v in load)
> VCCIO at 1.025v (~ 1.04, 1.05v in load)
> 
> I tested at 1.41v and the same, to see increasing the VDIMM
> 
> What I find weird is that from one reboot to another, without touching anything, there is an error within 2 minutes while the day before, it was good after 1 hour
> 
> Thanks



yeah, that's typical of training issues. you can try training at 1.45V and run at 1.425V. I would not worry that those are too high. At some point the vdimm cannot overcome the margin limits, so one either backs off on timings or frequency. RTL is set by the read-back time (and is related to CAS, trace length etc) and is really only impactful for specific operations (or benchmarks - like SPi32M). Other than that, like I posted earlier, best to just tune for consistent and stable RTLs with cas and vdimm. 
(those vsa and vccio voltages are spot on)


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, that's typical of training issues. you can try training at 1.45V and run at 1.425V. I would not worry that those are too high. At some point the vdimm cannot overcome the margin limits, so one either backs off on timings or frequency. RTL is set by the read-back time (and is related to CAS, trace length etc) and is really only impactful for specific operations (or benchmarks - like SPi32M). Other than that, like I posted earlier, best to just tune for consistent and stable RTLs with cas and vdimm.
> (those vsa and vccio voltages are spot on)


Ok for RTLs, thanks for your help :thumb:

Ok I will test 1.45 and 1.425v to see if it's good.
But I wonder if the Corsair Platinum SE are not a bit limited for OC (B-Die chips quality, yet they are supposedly "sorted")

Otherwise, I hesitate to test G.Skill RGB 4000 17-17-17
I read some time ago that the RGB were not good for the OC, but I hope that the rams are ok for the specs of origin
It's B-Die, is it ?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Ok for RTLs, thanks for your help :thumb:
> 
> Ok I will test 1.45 and 1.425v to see if it's good.
> But I wonder if the Corsair Platinum SE are not a bit limited for OC (B-Die chips quality, yet they are supposedly "sorted")
> 
> Otherwise, I hesitate to test G.Skill RGB 4000 17-17-17
> I read some time ago that the RGB were not good for the OC, but I hope that the rams are ok for the specs of origin
> It's B-Die, is it ?
> 
> Thanks


 the GS are B-die. I believe the Corsair are too. you can know for sure by looking in AID64 or siv64


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> the GS are B-die. I believe the Corsair are too. you can know for sure by looking in AID64 or siv64


Yes, Corsair are B-Die, but some are better than others.
I think the Corsairs are a little less "performing" (OC) than G.Skill


----------



## encrypted11

So I've received my 2nd RGB kit (after the 3600).
https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c17d-16gtzr

It hates 1T command rate, limited VDIMM frequency scaling. These issues weren't present in my non-RGBs. A couple of secondaries including tCWL had to be raised to 16 for stressapptest. My board doesn't have a QVL for the 4000 C17, 

tRDWR that were typically known good for CAS -1 or -2 had to be left at CAS +1 for daily usage. As it stands,
3200 C14 non-RGB (Jan 17)>4266 C19 non-RGB (Nov 17)>4000 C17 RGB (May 18)> 3600 C16 RGB (May 18) in my personal encounters.


----------



## tistou77

encrypted11 said:


> So I've received my 2nd RGB kit (after the 3600).
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c17d-16gtzr
> 
> It hates 1T command rate, limited VDIMM frequency scaling. These issues weren't present in my non-RGBs. A couple of secondaries including tCWL had to be raised to 16 for stressapptest. My board doesn't have a QVL for the 4000 C17,
> 
> tRDWR that were typically known good for CAS -1 or -2 had to be left at CAS +1 for daily usage. As it stands,
> 3200 C14 non-RGB (Jan 17)>4266 C19 non-RGB (Nov 17)>4000 C17 RGB (May 18)> 3600 C16 RGB (May 18) in my personal encounters.


With your tests the 3200C14 non RGB are better than the 4000 C17 RGB?
The 4000 C17 RGB are ok at 4000 17-17-17-37 1T and 1.35, 1.37v (according to sub timing) ?

Thanks


----------



## wingman99

Why are the G.SKILL RGB bad for overclocking?


----------



## encrypted11

tistou77 said:


> With your tests the 3200C14 non RGB are better than the 4000 C17 RGB?
> The 4000 C17 RGB are ok at 4000 17-17-17-37 1T and 1.35, 1.37v (according to sub timing)
> 
> Thanks


That's with a January 2017 B-die kit vs. May 2018 B-die kit, they aren't exactly comparable since G.SKILL only began testing various high frequency grades later in 2017 (and low CAS probably in 2018). The headroom you'd get from a 2018 vs. early 2017 kit are probably almost completely tapped out of factory unless you're buying a top bin.

The 3200 C14 kit is also completely bench stable and select memory tester stable (obviously not GSAT) just under 1.5V. It could also be simply the case where the RGB LEDs are taking a toll on the 1T signalling margin or that's just the RGB PCB's saturation point. The non-RGB kits have a different PCB.


----------



## tistou77

encrypted11 said:


> That's with a January 2017 B-die kit vs. May 2018 B-die kit, they aren't exactly comparable since G.SKILL only began testing various high frequency grades later in 2017 (and low CAS probably in 2018). The headroom you'd get from a 2018 vs. early 2017 kit are probably almost completely tapped out of factory unless you're buying a top bin.
> 
> The 3200 C14 kit is also completely bench stable and select memory tester stable (obviously not GSAT) just under 1.5V. It could also be simply the case where the RGB LEDs are taking a toll on the 1T signalling margin or that's just the RGB PCB's saturation point. The non-RGB kits have a different PCB.


Ok thanks
And with your kit 4000 C17 RGB, the 1T is not possible ?
You'll have a screen of your timings with Memtweak of Asus or Asrock (and tensions) ?

I was hesitant to change ram, but if the kit 4000 17-17-17-37 is not good with 1T and 1.35-1.37v (if it takes more VDIMM), as far as I stay with my current kit
Especially since I'm not a fan of the RGB on the ram 

Or if another G.Skill non RGB kit is capable of 4000 17-17-17 1T at 1.35-1.37v (4400 C19 kit maybe) ?


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Ok thanks
> And with your kit 4000 C17 RGB, the 1T is not possible ?
> You'll have a screen of your timings with Memtweak of Asus or Asrock (and tensions) ?
> 
> I was hesitant to change ram, but if the kit 4000 17-17-17-37 is not good with 1T and 1.35-1.37v (if it takes more VDIMM), as far as I stay with my current kit
> Especially since I'm not a fan of the RGB on the ram
> 
> Or if another G.Skill non RGB kit is capable of 4000 17-17-17 1T at 1.35-1.37v (4400 C19 kit maybe) ?



You may want to find two of the 2x8GB GS 3600c15 kits (non-rgb). I have three and the sticks are interchangeable across x299 and z370. On x299, 4000c16 at 1.4V has been my 24/7. 

these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...007611 50008476 600006072 601203950 600521526


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> You may want to find two of the 2x8GB GS 3600c15 kits (non-rgb). I have three and the sticks are interchangeable across x299 and z370. On x299, 4000c16 at 1.4V has been my 24/7.
> 
> these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...007611 50008476 600006072 601203950 600521526


I had tested them on X99 (6950X) and it was not good at 3200 C13 and 1.35-1.37v, I had not tried higher, I believe

I will test perhaps 2 of 2x8GB GS 4400 19-19-19-39 1.35v (non-rgb) and see if it's ok to 4000 C17

Thanks


----------



## encrypted11

tistou77 said:


> Ok thanks
> And with your kit 4000 C17 RGB, the 1T is not possible ?
> You'll have a screen of your timings with Memtweak of Asus or Asrock (and tensions) ?
> 
> I was hesitant to change ram, but if the kit 4000 17-17-17-37 is not good with 1T and 1.35-1.37v (if it takes more VDIMM), as far as I stay with my current kit
> Especially since I'm not a fan of the RGB on the ram
> 
> Or if another G.Skill non RGB kit is capable of 4000 17-17-17 1T at 1.35-1.37v (4400 C19 kit maybe) ?


The screenshots are 2T's for 4000 C17 RGB, 1T for the 4266 C19 non-RGB. Both are GSAT 2H+ tested at least.

The RGB kit trains terribly on just about 3866+ 1T under say 8.5ns first word. The 3600 C15 XMP with a 8.3ns first word Jpmboy linked should be a good pick assuming the 2018 units are just as great as the older ones.


----------



## tistou77

encrypted11 said:


> The 2T's for 4000 C17 RGB, 1T for the 4266 C19 non-RGB.
> 
> The RGB kit trains terribly on just about 3866+ 1T under say 8.5ns first word. The 3600 C15 XMP with a 8.3ns first word Jpmboy linked should be a good pick assuming the 2018 units are just as great as the older ones.


Thanks for your screens
You have what VDIMM for 4000 C16 (4000 C17 and 4266 C19 kits) ?

The RGB kits are worse, a pity that GS have not do the same kit in non-rgb


----------



## encrypted11

tistou77 said:


> Thanks for your screens
> You have what VDIMM for 4000 C16 ?
> 
> The RGB kits are worse, a pity that GS have not do the same kit in non-rgb


1.4V for both, software reads +30mV on a couple of ASRock Z370s. The voltage / frequency scaling seemed minimal on the RGB kit(s).
The non-RGB ones would scale considerably with voltage at least with frequencies.
I've ran 4400MHz on the 4266 C19 kit through gsat.









My 3200 C14 I had would bench under 8ns first word (one of them was much stronger than the twin).


----------



## kx11

well


with these stats














i passed 3dmark Timespy extreme stress test


https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/26956598?




Hardware monitoring is disabled because the 1st time i ran the test it was and it crashed the test , why am i labeled " Linux Lobbyist " ?!


----------



## tistou77

encrypted11 said:


> 1.4V for both, software reads +30mV on a couple of ASRock Z370s. The voltage / frequency scaling seemed minimal on the RGB kit(s).
> The non-RGB ones would scale considerably with voltage at least with frequencies.
> I've ran 4400MHz on the 4266 C19 kit through gsat.
> 
> My 3200 C14 I had would bench under 8ns first word (one of them was much stronger than the twin).


Ok thanks for your information :thumb:
It's better to take a non-rgb kit, then

I am tempted to try the 2 of 2x8GB 4400 C19 1.35v at 4000 C17
Hoping that 2 kits do not cause any problem


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Ok thanks for your information :thumb:
> It's better to take a non-rgb kit, then
> 
> I am tempted to try the 2 of 2x8GB 4400 C19 1.35v at 4000 C17
> Hoping that 2 kits do not cause any problem


I have the 4400c19 kit(s). At least my Apex/7080xe likes the 3600c15 kits better.


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> I have the 4400c19 kit(s). At least my Apex/7080xe likes the 3600c15 kits better.


Thanks for your feedback

With your 7980XE / Apex, the 3600 C15 kits are better then, better OC ?
In fact, I'm just looking for a kit non-rgb to have 4000 C17 at 1.35-1.38v (like the kit 4000 C17 RGB)
the 4400 C19 would be good for that ?

Otherwise I keep my Platinum SE at 4000 C17 at +1.40v 

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

keep the corsairs.


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> keep the corsairs.


For now the Corsairs are 3800 17-17-17 and 1.36v

I think I will test another kit and see for the 4000 C17 and 1.35-1.37v
Even if 1.45v are safe, I can not exceed 1.40v, it's psychological :kookoo:


----------



## Immortalq

Jpmboy said:


> You may want to find two of the 2x8GB GS 3600c15 kits (non-rgb). I have three and the sticks are interchangeable across x299 and z370. On x299, 4000c16 at 1.4V has been my 24/7.
> 
> these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...007611 50008476 600006072 601203950 600521526


Can you share your specific timmings and voltages which you have for this kit to run it at 4000 MHz CL16. I've the same kit and trying to make it work at 4000CL16 (16-16-16-38-CR2) and it's not stable even at 1.45V.

I know, it's a lottery but still if you dont mind sharing.


----------



## Jpmboy

in the spoiler. 16-17-17-38-1T. straight 16s would not pass GSAT. http://www.overclock.net/forum/27482508-post7784.html


----------



## Immortalq

Jpmboy said:


> in the spoiler. 16-17-17-38-1T. straight 16s would not pass GSAT. http://www.overclock.net/forum/27482508-post7784.html


Thanks. Well it seems i was not so lucky with my kit. I can't get it to run stable at 16-17-17-38 @4000, even with 2T. With 1T it wont even boot with 1.45V. The best i can do atm is 17-17-17-36-T2 @ 4000 or 15-15-15-30-T1 @3600. Probably gonna stick with the later and try to tighten my secondary timings. Kinda dissapointed thou.


----------



## Jpmboy

Immortalq said:


> Thanks. Well it seems i was not so lucky with my kit. I can't get it to run stable at 16-17-17-38 @4000, even with 2T. With 1T it wont even boot with 1.45V. The best i can do atm is 17-17-17-36-T2 @ 4000 or 15-15-15-30-T1 @3600. Probably gonna stick with the later and try to tighten my secondary timings. Kinda dissapointed thou.


what MB?


----------



## Immortalq

Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 (latest BIOS - F6) + 8700K @ 5 GHz (-2 AVX).


----------



## Jpmboy

lol -0 I thought you had x299 struggling with the 4000. I won't tell you what I run 24/7 on the Max X Apex... well okay, I will. 4500c18-19-19-42-2T (1T is not stable, 4400c17-18-18 1T is stable tho).
what vccio and vsa on the G7? leme fire up the z370 and post some snips...


----------



## Immortalq

Jpmboy said:


> lol -0 I thought you had x299 struggling with the 4000. I won't tell you what I run 24/7 on the Max X Apex... well okay, I will. 4500c18-18-18-40-2T (1T is not stable, 4400c17-18-18 1T is stable tho).
> what vccio and vsa on the G7? leme fire up the z370 and post some snips...


Tried anything up to 1.2V on VCCIO and VCA, no luck. Running out of ideas really. It seems i really have no luck when it comes to (silicon) lottery. That or G.Skill started to select chips more carefully.


----------



## Jpmboy

yeah, vccio and vsa are low at 1.2V


----------



## Immortalq

This is depressing, lol. Nice one mate.

Will try with higher vccio and vsa in the morning. Althou i would be suprissed if 0.5V and 0.75 more would make such a difference. Is that even safe? Running vccio and vsa voltage so high.


----------



## Jpmboy

Immortalq said:


> This is depressing, lol. Nice one mate.
> 
> Will try with higher vccio and vsa in the morning. Althou i would be suprissed if 0.5V and 0.75 more would make such a difference. *Is that even safe? *Running vccio and vsa voltage so high.



This, we're not 100% sure of, but no problems here, and for benching days, 1.3V+ is routine. But, yeah always stay within your comfort limits with voltages. On my G9 I have both above 1.25V with a 7740X and well, we'll see over time. That rig has been folding cpu anbd gpu for weeks now.


edit: with stability
stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, vccio and vsa are low at 1.2V


Any reason you are running uncore at 3,7GHz?


----------



## Immortalq

Jpmboy said:


> This, we're not 100% sure of, but no problems here, and for benching days, 1.3V+ is routine. But, yeah always stay within your comfort limits with voltages. On my G9 I have both above 1.25V with a 7740X and well, we'll see over time. That rig has been folding cpu anbd gpu for weeks now.
> 
> 
> edit: with stability
> stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200


That's the interesting part. We already know that even 1.5V or maybe more on memory is safe. I'm pretty sure G.Skill just announced high speed kits with 1.5V on XMP. So it has to be safe or the degradation over time is so insignificant that it dont matter anyway.

But there is no real confirmation on running vccio and vsa at 1.25+ V for long period of time. So this is interesting. Anyway i gonna work more on my kit today. I refuse to give up and not achive at least 4000 CL16-17-17 with T1 

Also side question - how much can you achieve with CL 15-15-15-T1 on my kit (G.Skill)? Can you go 3733 or 3800 MHz? Kinda torn between higher bandwidth and lower latency.


----------



## encrypted11

Immortalq said:


> That's the interesting part. We already know that even 1.5V or maybe more on memory is safe. I'm pretty sure G.Skill just announced high speed kits with 1.5V on XMP. So it has to be safe or the degradation over time is so insignificant that it dont matter anyway.
> 
> But there is no real confirmation on running vccio and vsa at 1.25+ V for long period of time. So this is interesting. Anyway i gonna work more on my kit today. I refuse to give up and not achive at least 4000 CL16-17-17 with T1
> 
> Also side question - how much can you achieve with CL 15-15-15-T1 on my kit (G.Skill)? Can you go 3733 or 3800 MHz? Kinda torn between higher bandwidth and lower latency.


Maybe 3866 C16 2T will be a closer target?
Most probably the 1T signalling margin wouldn't be close to something like a dual channel 1DPC board like Apex or an ITX from MSi, ASRock or ASUS.

The 2DPC dual channel (4DIMMs) with top memory performance are pretty much just the Hero+ or Taichi (Professional Gaming i7 PCB). The extreme4 (fatal1ty k6 PCB) would probably do it, but they contain some artificial limitations relating to voltage and power limits over the taichi.


----------



## Jpmboy

Immortalq said:


> That's the interesting part. We already know that even 1.5V or maybe more on memory is safe. I'm pretty sure G.Skill just announced high speed kits with 1.5V on XMP. So it has to be safe or the degradation over time is so insignificant that it dont matter anyway.
> 
> But there is no real confirmation on running vccio and vsa at 1.25+ V for long period of time. So this is interesting. Anyway i gonna work more on my kit today. I refuse to give up and not achive at least 4000 CL16-17-17 with T1
> 
> Also side question - how much can you achieve with CL 15-15-15-T1 on my kit (G.Skill)? Can you go 3733 or 3800 MHz? Kinda torn between higher bandwidth and lower latency.



The vdimm spec is set by INtel for XMP certification in their AOR sheet. As encrypted said, 3866 is a good memory divider on this platform, it may do ya better to shoot for a tight 3866.
oh - cache is at 4.8.


----------



## Immortalq

encrypted11 said:


> Maybe 3866 C16 2T will be a closer target?
> Most probably the 1T signalling margin wouldn't be close to something like a dual channel 1DPC board like Apex or an ITX from MSi, ASRock or ASUS.
> 
> The 2DPC dual channel (4DIMMs) with top memory performance are pretty much just the Hero+ or Taichi (Professional Gaming i7 PCB). The extreme4 (fatal1ty k6 PCB) would probably do it, but they contain some artificial limitations relating to voltage and power limits over the taichi.



After playing another day with my kit and going only with primary timings + clock / voltage.

*The best i can manage (stable) is: 3900-CL16-17-17-38-T2*

With T1 there is no going past 3700 MHz and even at that i need to adjust CL to 16 already, so my best combination is the default one +T1:

*3600-15-15-15-35-T1*

I still wonder *from performance standpoint which of these two (overall) is better?*

Now im gonna work on my secondary and tertiary timings.


----------



## Silent Scone

Hi all, I’ll do my best to update the thread this weekend. As you probably gathered I had an extended holiday! 

It’s good to be back 🙂


----------



## Immortalq

Still messing with my kit.

Got another question, im pretty sure it was already answered here but going throu like 100 pages is really a pain.

How temperature is affecting memory? My is hitting like 44C at 1.5V and im wondering if i'm not getting temperature induced errors?


----------



## wingman99

Immortalq said:


> Still messing with my kit.
> 
> Got another question, im pretty sure it was already answered here but going throu like 100 pages is really a pain.
> 
> How temperature is affecting memory? My is hitting like 44C at 1.5V and im wondering if i'm not getting temperature induced errors?


No temperature induced errors at 44c. From my testing that happens at 90c.


----------



## Silent Scone

That really depends on how marginal the stablity is so it’s not that black and white. Changes in ambient has an affect on impedances


----------



## Jpmboy

double post..


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Hi all, I’ll do my best to update the thread this weekend. As you probably gathered I had an extended holiday!
> 
> It’s good to be back 🙂


Finally, no more sabbaticals for you Professor. 
:wheee:


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello!

I wanted to ask a couple of questions about purchasing a new kit. 

I'm looking between these kits, 

1. F4-3200C14D-16GTZ, 
2. F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW
3. F4-3200C14D-16GTZR
4. F4-3600C15D-16GTZ

Does anyone know if there is any big difference between them concerning overclocking/timing optimization? I saw on Tweak Town that its difficult to tighten the timings for the 3600 cl15 kit. 

I'm looking to overclock to 4000 16-16-16-xx-x

Thanks!


----------



## mouacyk

Just a little PSA for HWINFO64 users... it is causing BSOD 0xD1 now and is being investigated by the devs. While testing new CPU/RAM OCs, I had it open to monitor my temperatures, but it would always crash once the CPU was loaded enough, usually by the second or third CB15 run. I proceeded to test my stable OC and even stock, with it running and not. When it's not running, there is no BSOD.

https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-Could-HWiNFO-be-causing-a-0xD1-BSOD


----------



## encrypted11

Silent Scone said:


> That really depends on how marginal the stablity is so it’s not that black and white. Changes in ambient has an affect on impedances


Great, the linux lobbyists would like to see the updated numbers on page 1 :specool:


----------



## ssateneth

So I haven't really been using short benches (Like AIDA64 mem/cache benchmark) lately to determine if a particular timing had good effect on speed. Instead, I've been use HCI Memtest and 1: Seeing how fast the fastest thread's % coverage rose on average per hour and 2: tracking the RAM power usage and noting the maximum power draw. It seems a higher power draw correlates with a faster coverage % (which would imply faster writes, faster reads, lower latency between switching from read and write modes, or any combination of the 3). On single side b die @ 4000MT/sec 1.5V I've increased power usage from just below 5 watts to just shy of 7.2 watts (and still increasing as I work on the last 3-4 timings), which is pretty close to power usage I had for a single stick of dual rank dual sided DIMMs on my first gen DDR4 on an X99 asus board and i7-5960x.

Some timings of note that GREATLY increased testing speed and power usage were definitely tFAW or tWR (I worked those 2 simultaneously) and likely tRRDS (also adjusted during messing with tFAW). I never saw any impact of tFAW with AIDA64 benches! Other timings such as tRFC+tREFI and tertiary rdrd/wrwr/rwwr/wrrd had fair gains too. Will report back in a week or so as testing for tightest possible timings for 24/7 stability takes a looooooong time.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Hello guys. 

I have a very annoying "issue"
My memory becomes unstable over time. Ranging from a few days to a few weeks.
So my workaround is to reload oc profile when I plan to play games, but it's so tedious


When the memory gets unstable, it is really unstable. failing memtests within minutes


I suspect that my motherboard is the culpit, but who knows? 

Asus Tuf x299M1 and I've tested with several bios versions




As you can see my memory is quite stable and at some point I ran 10 000% coverage on Ram test.


----------



## wingman99

SuperMumrik said:


> Hello guys.
> 
> I have a very annoying "issue"
> My memory becomes unstable over time. Ranging from a few days to a few weeks.
> So my workaround is to reload oc profile when I plan to play games, but it's so tedious
> 
> 
> When the memory gets unstable, it is really unstable. failing memtests within minutes
> 
> 
> I suspect that my motherboard is the culpit, but who knows?
> 
> Asus Tuf x299M1 and I've tested with several bios versions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see my memory is quite stable and at some point I ran 10 000% coverage on Ram test.


Sounds like a common secondary memory training issue when rebooting. When you have memory errors after rebooting check to see what changed in the secondary timings.


----------



## SuperMumrik

wingman99 said:


> Sounds like a common secondary memory training issue when rebooting. When you have memory errors after rebooting check to see what changed in the secondary timings.



Tnx. I will check next time it happens.
How can I avoid this?


----------



## wingman99

SuperMumrik said:


> Tnx. I will check next time it happens.
> How can I avoid this?


When you find out what secondary timings change causing the memory errors when rebooting then set the timings manually that worked well in previous settings. Post back how it works out for you.


----------



## SuperMumrik

wingman99 said:


> When you find out what secondary timings change causing the memory errors when rebooting then set the timings manually that worked well in previous settings. Post back how it works out for you.



Will do! 

I was under the impression that manually set timings wouldn't change :thinking:
There should be some way to avoid this right?


----------



## wingman99

SuperMumrik said:


> Will do!
> 
> I was under the impression that manually set timings wouldn't change :thinking:
> There should be some way to avoid this right?


Are you manually setting primary and secondary timings?


----------



## SuperMumrik

wingman99 said:


> Are you manually setting primary and secondary timings?



Yes, primary, secondary and tertiary are all set manually.
Secondary and tertiary are for the most part shamelessly copyed from others


----------



## wingman99

SuperMumrik said:


> Yes, primary, secondary and tertiary are all set manually.
> Secondary and tertiary are for the most part shamelessly copyed from others


Well then since all the motherboard processor timings are set manually that should not be your problem, unless they are changing with training somehow. I would check it when you have errors and post back.


----------



## Immortalq

After several days of tinkering i decided to switch boards. Picked up Asus ROG Maximus Apex Z370 and it's world a part from my Gigabyte when it comes to memory overclocking.

After like 18h of stability tests, 3866-Cl15-15-15-38-T1 with tight secondary and tetriary timings is stable 

Now im testing 3900. Really want to push CL15 with T1 to the max. Looking great thou. Maybe 4000 is possible? We will see.


----------



## encrypted11

I have mixed opinions but ...1T on Gigabyte... 
Unlike the upper tier asus/asrocks...


----------



## Immortalq

No idea about Asrock Z370 Taichi but my friend had 2 x ASRock Z370 GAMING K6 both died. I know its probably lotery and other brands fail as well but for now i try to stay away from ASRock Z370 line-up. Maybe i will pick up Taichi Ultimate X470 for my Ryzen build.

On topic thou - 3900 CL15-15-15-38-T1 is going strong thru stability tests. Maybe 4000 Cl15-15-15-38-T1 is really within reach.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> in the spoiler. 16-17-17-38-1T. straight 16s would not pass GSAT. http://www.overclock.net/forum/27482508-post7784.html


 @Jpmboy

On my 8700K I can do 17-17-17-32 2T with my X99 4x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws 5 3200 CL14.

If I want to stay with 4x8GB you think I would do better with the below and get 1T?

https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtzkk

Or these Dual Channel, I hear people are getting 1T with them where they are not with Ripjaws 5.

https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzsw


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hello!
> 
> I wanted to ask a couple of questions about purchasing a new kit.
> 
> I'm looking between these kits,
> 
> 1. F4-3200C14D-16GTZ,
> 2. F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW
> 3. F4-3200C14D-16GTZR
> 4. F4-3600C15D-16GTZ
> 
> Does anyone know if there is any big difference between them concerning overclocking/timing optimization? I saw on Tweak Town that its difficult to tighten the timings for the 3600 cl15 kit.
> 
> I'm looking to overclock to 4000 16-16-16-xx-x
> 
> Thanks!


what platform/MB??


So much for tweaktown... 


KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> On my 8700K I can do 17-17-17-32 2T with my X99 4x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws 5 3200 CL14.
> If I want to stay with 4x8GB you think I would do better with the below and get 1T?
> https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtzkk
> Or these Dual Channel, I hear people are getting 1T with them where they are not with Ripjaws 5.
> https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzsw


1T at what frequency??
And, you always ask difficult questions. 


(IMO, the 3200c14 and 3600c16 kits are the same)


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> what platform/MB??
> 
> 
> So much for tweaktown...
> 
> 1T at what frequency??
> And, you always ask difficult questions.
> 
> 
> (IMO, the 3200c14 and 3600c16 kits are the same)



4266 to 4400. :thumb:

Edit: My 4x8GB Ripjaws 5 3200 CL14 is an X99 kit but they are b-dies. 

My bad, just checked on the G.Skill QVL, they'll do Z370 too.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

@Jpmboy

I have an 8700k 5.1ghz/4.8 @1.39V, asrock z370 taichi


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> I have an 8700k 5.1ghz/4.8 @1.39V, asrock z370 taichi



I've had very good luck with the 3600c15 kits. And for z370, the 4400c19 kit has been very good. It runs 4500c18 (2T) on my Apex/8700K... but struggles on the same board with an 8600K in the socket. Unfortunately, a lot is based on the strength of the IMC too.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Jpmboy said:


> I've had very good luck with the 3600c15 kits. And for z370, the 4400c19 kit has been very good. It ruins 4500c18 (2T) on my Apex/8700K... but struggles on the same board with an 8600K in the socket. Unfortunately, a lot is based on the strength of the IMC too.


Would it be safe to say that the 3600 cl15 has better capabilities* than the 3200 cl14? Because on the first page of this thread, alot of the 'records' have the 3200 cl14 kit


----------



## Jpmboy

the 3600c15 is a higher bin than 3200c14. I'm sure you'll do fine with either. Both will require significant hands-on tuning to run higher than their XMPs.


----------



## wingman99

Immortalq said:


> After several days of tinkering i decided to switch boards. Picked up Asus ROG Maximus Apex Z370 and it's world a part from my Gigabyte when it comes to memory overclocking.
> 
> After like 18h of stability tests, 3866-Cl15-15-15-38-T1 with tight secondary and tetriary timings is stable
> 
> Now im testing 3900. Really want to push CL15 with T1 to the max. Looking great thou. Maybe 4000 is possible? We will see.


What Gigabyte motherboard did you have?


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> I've had very good luck with the 3600c15 kits. And for z370, *the 4400c19 kit has been very good. It ruins 4500c18 (2T)* on my Apex/8700K... but struggles on the same board with an 8600K in the socket. Unfortunately, a lot is based on the strength of the IMC too.


1T is not possible ? Too much voltage ?


----------



## wingman99

Jpmboy said:


> I've had very good luck with the 3600c15 kits. And for z370, the 4400c19 kit has been very good. It ruins 4500c18 (2T) on my Apex/8700K... but struggles on the same board with an 8600K in the socket. Unfortunately, a lot is based on the strength of the IMC too.


Did increasing the Vccio and Vccsa help with the 8600k?


----------



## Immortalq

wingman99 said:


> What Gigabyte motherboard did you have?


Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 5. No real difference in CPU OC (can hit 5,2 GHz on both) but worlds apart in memory overclocking ability. By that i mean Asus Apex is waaaaaay better.


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> 1T is not possible ? Too much voltage ?


it's not only a voltage thing... at some point increasing voltage just can't overcome the timing margins we have to play with on any combination of components.


----------



## Ironclad17

Is anyone familiar with SK Hynix AFR die on Z170? I know the frequency is fairly limited, but there really isn't much information besides that. I've been trying everything with this kit (2x8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 MHz 15-17-17-35-2T 1.35 V XMP) on my ASRock Z170m Pro4. I'm running it at 1.5 V Vdimm, but I need that just to stabilize XMP with my CPU OC (delidded [email protected], Average Package Temp 50 C). It seems to absolutely hate Command Rate 1T. The highest frequency I can reach is 3200 MHz but I need loose timings of 19-21-21-43-2T. I can get tighter timings with an extremely high tRAS between 50-60 and in the AIDA64 benchmark that performs better but does that make sense for daily use? I can't get the XMP secondary timings stable at 3200 MHz either. I'm not confident about tuning those manually, but I would assume XMP would perform better than the Auto settings of my motherboard. Am I better off dropping the frequency down until I can at least stabilize those secondary timings?

I'm aiming for 3100 MHz [email protected] V with XMP secondary timings. Would you expect that to perform better than a lower frequency at Command Rate 1T or slightly tighter timings, or does anyone know for a fact that AFR die does not handle 1T well?

HCI Memtest has been unreliable for me as often I will pass 1000% runs but mild workloads will cause freezing.


----------



## Lownage

Setup: 
APEX X, 8700K @ 5GHZ/4,8 Uncore 1,35V LLC5
GSKILL Trident Z 3600CL15 @ 4400 18, 19, 19, 42 1,4V
SA: 1,2625V (BIOS)
IO: 1,235V (BIOS)

Right now testing via RAMTEST (at this moment 10000% with 0 errors).

Over the weekend I tried to reach tighter primary timings by increasing the ram voltage to 1,45V. 
Because of RAMTEST crashing at 1000% I reverted my settings, only leaving the voltage at 1,45V.
Testing again the result was the same. Ramtest crashed at ~1000%

All timings were the same, nothing trained different due to higher voltages.

Out of curiosity I tried 4000 MHz on the RAM @ 1,45V and had 0 errors (let it run for 5000%).

Any ideas why higher Voltage makes my OC unstable (but only at higher clocks)?


----------



## Immortalq

Lownage said:


> Setup:
> APEX X, 8700K @ 5GHZ/4,8 Uncore 1,35V LLC5
> GSKILL Trident Z 3600CL15 @ 4400 18, 19, 19, 42 1,4V
> SA: 1,2625V (BIOS)
> IO: 1,235V (BIOS)
> 
> Right now testing via RAMTEST (at this moment 10000% with 0 errors).
> 
> Over the weekend I tried to reach tighter primary timings by increasing the ram voltage to 1,45V.
> Because of RAMTEST crashing at 1000% I reverted my settings, only leaving the voltage at 1,45V.
> Testing again the result was the same. Ramtest crashed at ~1000%
> 
> All timings were the same, nothing trained different due to higher voltages.
> 
> Out of curiosity I tried 4000 MHz on the RAM @ 1,45V and had 0 errors (let it run for 5000%).
> 
> Any ideas why higher Voltage makes my OC unstable (but only at higher clocks)?


IMC may not like higher voltage with higher clock. Also memory temperature can impact stability. Even if you're in like low to mid 40. If your stability margin is very thin, few degress can make a difference between stable and unstable.


----------



## Lownage

Immortalq said:


> IMC may not like higher voltage with higher clock. Also memory temperature can impact stability. Even if you're in like low to mid 40. If your stability margin is very thin, few degress can make a difference between stable and unstable.


Could chaning the slots/sticks make a change (maybe one stick is worse and should be closer to the cpu)?

I´ll try 4300 @ 1,45V later if that is stable, I´ll start from there with tighter timings.


----------



## tistou77

tistou77 said:


> Ok thanks for your information :thumb:
> It's better to take a non-rgb kit, then
> 
> I am tempted to try the 2 of 2x8GB 4400 C19 1.35v at 4000 C17
> Hoping that 2 kits do not cause any problem


Looking at the G.Skill memories, I realized that the 4400 C19 kit is at 1.40v
In stores in France, it indicates 1.35v and it misled me
I'll see for another kit, maybe... re try 3600 C15.... ?


----------



## Immortalq

Lownage said:


> Could chaning the slots/sticks make a change (maybe one stick is worse and should be closer to the cpu)?
> 
> I´ll try 4300 @ 1,45V later if that is stable, I´ll start from there with tighter timings.


Slots should not matter much at this speed (added coz @encrypted11 is right - it may matter at lower speeds) .

You should go back to 1.4V and test it again - to see if it's still stable and go from there.

With my kit, which is exactly the same as yours (and imo is the best kit anybody can buy for a decent amount of money) i can go as high as 4400 18-18-18-38 with 1,42V stable.

But at this point there is such a big CL penalty that it's not worth it imo, in most cases my tight 4000 @ Cl15-15-15-35-T1 on which im still working - gives me better performance in almost anything.

People get way too excited with higher bandwidth while in reality latency after certain point of bandwidth is way more precious for overall performance.


----------



## encrypted11

In my opinion, if you're at the very end of your kit's scaling capability for daily use you'd find matching slots and dimms to be beneficial to some degree.

I've seen this on my c14 3200 non-rgb kit, and I had to leave the stronger kit on channel B and the weaker kit on channel A alleviate possible cold booting drifts.

However if you're running a kit with a high XMP speed grade (maybe 4000+), chances are that the clocking potential of both kits are likely to be very similar.


----------



## Lownage

Immortalq said:


> Slots should not matter much.
> 
> You should go back to 1.4V and test it again - to see if it's still stable and go from there.
> 
> With my kit, which is exactly the same as yours (and imo is the best kit anybody can buy for a decent amount of money) i can go as high as 4400 18-18-18-38 with 1,42V stable.
> 
> But at this point there is such a big CL penalty that it's not worth it imo, in most cases my tight 4000 @ Cl15-15-15-35-T1 on which im still working - gives me better performance in almost anything.
> 
> People get way too excited with higher bandwidth while in reality latency after certain point of bandwidth is way more precious for overall performance.


Just passed Ramtest with 30000% coverage at 1,4V and 4400 18 19 19 42

Tested again with 1,45V and crash at 500%. I compared all timings and noticed that WR Add Delay (B) D0 R0 went from 2 to 1. I didnt find a way to manually set this timing. Does anyone know a way?

Will try 4000 Cl15 later too  Thanks


----------



## Immortalq

Depends on the board i believe - i don't see a way to set this timing either on my Apex (thou it may just be under a different name).

Simple solution for this is just to set memory training voltage to 1.4V while retaining other settings and DDR voltage at 1.45.


----------



## mouacyk

Immortalq said:


> But at this point there is such a big CL penalty that it's not worth it imo, in most cases my tight 4000 @ Cl15-15-15-35-T1 on which im still working - gives me better performance in almost anything.


What kind of ungodly voltage are you feeding that [email protected]? Interested to see all your timings and voltages for this.


----------



## Immortalq

Will post screenshoot when i get back home.

As for voltage it's not so ungodly, at least for me. [email protected], SA: 1.28, IO: 1.29V.


----------



## mouacyk

Immortalq said:


> Will post screenshoot when i get back home.
> 
> As for voltage it's not so ungodly, at least for me. [email protected], SA: 1.28, IO: 1.29V.


Wow that's not bad at all. Any idea what temps the DIMMs reach under stress?


----------



## Immortalq

Sure i do, after like 18h of stress testing at very worst its 42.5 degree and i will be adding more Noctua fans to the case coz ideally i would like it stay below 40.


----------



## Lownage

I´ve now tried to boot up with 1,4V and eventual dram voltage at 1,45 -> instant crash in ramtest.

Set it to 1.42V which resultet in WR Add Delay to be 1 instead of 2 and ramtest is still testing (2800%). 
It must be either my IMC or another unknown timing/setting which is affected by DRAM voltage.


I also tried 15-15-15-35 1T (1,5V DRAM, 1,275 IO and 1,3 SA) which gave me "bad" results at least in Aida.

Are some of my secondary/tertiary timings off? I used the same as for 4400 MHz. Could also be instability, didn´t test it.


----------



## Immortalq

You wont have the same scores when it comes to read/write/copy as at 4400. AIDA is good for bandwidth testing and as such will (almost) always prefer higher MHz.

Real world aplications act usually differently (games, adobe programs and several other which are limited to few cores [and performance per core is a limiting factor] benifit way more from lower latency then from higher bandwidth).

That being said:

Your latency is quite high (you can hit 36ns, my best is 35.8ns) and youre around 2-3K off on read/write/copy vs what i get. You set tREFI quite low and tRFC quite high. Mine is 65000 and 280. On top of that CAS Write Latency yours 14 mine is 12. RDWR and WRRD also could use some work.

*But before any of that - check if its stable*, no point in tweaking secondary or tetriary timings if its not stable atm.


----------



## Lownage

Immortalq said:


> You wont have the same scores when it comes to read/write/copy as at 4400. AIDA is good for bandwidth testing and as such will (almost) always prefer higher MHz.
> 
> Real world aplications act usually differently (games, adobe programs and several other which are limited to few cores [and performance per core is a limiting factor] benifit way more from lower latency then from higher bandwidth).
> 
> That being said:
> 
> Your latency is quite high (you can hit 36ns, my best is 35.8ns) and youre around 2-3K off on read/write/copy vs what i get. You set tREFI quite low and tRFC quite high. Mine is 65000 and 280. On top of that CAS Write Latency yours 14 mine is 12. RDWR and WRRD also could use some work.
> 
> *But before any of that - check if its stable*, no point in tweaking secondary or tetriary timings if its not stable atm.



It is stable.
Will test your points, thanks.

edit: would you be so kind an post a screenshot of your timings?

what are your settings in dram current capability (130%), dram switching frequency(400) and which maximum tweak mode (2) are you using?


----------



## Jpmboy

for those OCD among us, regarding the latency vs bandwidth on z370, here's a pretty good example. 4400c17 and 4500c18 compared with AID64 bandwidth and SuperPi32M which is a decent test of (among other things) latency (responds well to RTL tuning). 



By AID64 (rough mean of several runs) 4400c17_1T is slightly lower latency, and lower bandwidth that 4500C18_2T, and a bit slower at SPi32M. Overall, I like 4400c17 simply because I can lower vccio and vsa vs 4500. But from a "feel" perspective, 4500 just feels faster in everyday use.


----------



## Jpmboy




----------



## Lownage

Which Kit is better overclocking wise:

4600 19-19-19-39 @ 1,5V
https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...z-C19-Memory-Kit---Black/p/CMK16GX4M2F4600C19 

4500 19-19-19-39 @ 1,45V
https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...z-C19-Memory-Kit---Black/p/CMK16GX4M2F4500C19


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> for those OCD among us, regarding the latency vs bandwidth on z370, here's a pretty good example. 4400c17 and 4500c18 compared with AID64 bandwidth and SuperPi32M which is a decent test of (among other things) latency (responds well to RTL tuning).
> 
> 
> 
> By AID64 (rough mean of several runs) 4400c17_1T is slightly lower latency, and lower bandwidth that 4500C18_2T, and a bit slower at SPi32M. Overall, I like 4400c17 simply because I can lower vccio and vsa vs 4500. But from a "feel" perspective, 4500 just feels faster in everyday use.


Something has to be off for me.
With the exact same settings my score is 2ns worse than yours and copy speed is 2000mb/s less.

Swapping the sticks made things worse btw. My pc wouldn´t boot at all with my settings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Lownage said:


> Something has to be off for me.
> With the exact same settings my score is 2ns worse than yours and copy speed is 2000mb/s less.
> 
> Swapping the sticks made things worse btw. My pc wouldn´t boot at all with my settings.


1.45V? Max X Apex?
TRy setting tWCL to 14.


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> 1.45V? Max X Apex?
> TRy setting tWCL to 14.


Yes, 1,45V and Max X Apex.
Tried tWCL 13, results were nearly the same.



Would someone be so kind an post their bios settings in a .txt file? Maybe its some other setting I messed up.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hello, 

I was wondering now that I have a stable system and am happy with it how to proceed with more RAM oc ? Can I do all my ram stability testing with a live USB OS for example so I don't have the fear of maybe corrupting my OS ?


----------



## encrypted11

bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering now that I have a stable system and am happy with it how to proceed with more RAM oc ? Can I do all my ram stability testing with a live USB OS for example so I don't have the fear of maybe corrupting my OS ?


A mint bootable usb will be great.

Personally, I'll verify that timings lock and RTLs at the BIOS after POST. If it's looking good I'll try to gsat that. If 8 profile slots aren't enough on an ROG board, put your experimental presets on a flash drive!


----------



## Jpmboy

google puppy linux


----------



## ThrashZone

bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering now that I have a stable system and am happy with it how to proceed with more RAM oc ? Can I do all my ram stability testing with a live USB OS for example so I don't have the fear of maybe corrupting my OS ?


Hi,
Just get another ssd and make a clone or restore a system image to it and carry on


----------



## djgar

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Just get another ssd and make a clone or restore a system image to it and carry on


I went cheap and used a harddrive .


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
lol get cheap again and get another 
A lot of cheap ssd's around.


----------



## GeneO

bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering now that I have a stable system and am happy with it how to proceed with more RAM oc ? Can I do all my ram stability testing with a live USB OS for example so I don't have the fear of maybe corrupting my OS ?



You can make image backups. That is what I do. After OC I simply restore the backup. I use Macrium Reflect.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

I was wondering, is it possible to know if it is a lack of VDIMM, IO or SA when it is not stable ?

And when testing with HCI Memtest or RamTest, when it is not stable, like to know if it comes from the ram or the Cache ?
I had seen that too much tension in the Cache could be unstable

Thanks


----------



## JMTH

tistou77 said:


> Hello
> 
> I was wondering, is it possible to know if it is a lack of VDIMM, IO or SA when it is not stable ?
> 
> And when testing with HCI Memtest or RamTest, when it is not stable, like to know if it comes from the ram or the Cache ?
> I had seen that too much tension in the Cache could be unstable
> 
> Thanks


If you run default RamTest or BASH Stressapptest and it passes 1-2k% or 1-2 hours, then fails on HCI Memtest then it's a cache issue.


----------



## tistou77

JMTH said:


> If you run default RamTest or BASH Stressapptest and it passes 1-2k% or 1-2 hours, then fails on HCI Memtest then it's a cache issue.


I have an error with RamTest (Memory + Cache) after 15 minutes, but it passes 1 hour with Aida64 just by testing the memory
Can it be the Cache ?
Tested RamTest with just memory ?


----------



## JMTH

tistou77 said:


> I have an error with RamTest (Memory + Cache) after 15 minutes, but it passes 1 hour with Aida64 just by testing the memory
> Can it be the Cache ?
> Tested RamTest with just memory ?


Do A RamTest with both options in default. If it fails then it's a DRAM/VCCSA/VCCIO CPU/(1st/2nd/3rd timing issue). If it passes 1-2k%, then fails HCI then it's (90%) Cache or (10%) CPU voltage issue.

I stopped using ADIA64 for stress testing, I would always pass a 2-4 hour cache test then fail in HCI but pass Stressapptest and/or RamTest. It took me 100s of hours to realize it was the cache voltage that was causing the test failure. I thought it was the VCCSA or VCCIO CPU, so I stepped through each one step at a time from 0.900 to 1.290. It was only matter that nightmare that I realized the cache voltage was too low, and not by a small amount. It was like 0.050 volts too low. AIDA64 just doesn't hit it hard enough.


----------



## tistou77

JMTH said:


> Do A RamTest with both options in default. If it fails then it's a DRAM/VCCSA/VCCIO CPU/(1st/2nd/3rd timing issue). If it passes 1-2k%, then fails HCI then it's (90%) Cache or (10%) CPU voltage issue.
> 
> I stopped using ADIA64 for stress testing, I would always pass a 2-4 hour cache test then fail in HCI but pass Stressapptest and/or RamTest. It took me 100s of hours to realize it was the cache voltage that was causing the test failure. I thought it was the VCCSA or VCCIO CPU, so I stepped through each one step at a time from 0.900 to 1.290. It was only matter that nightmare that I realized the cache voltage was too low, and not by a small amount. It was like 0.050 volts too low. AIDA64 just doesn't hit it hard enough.


Ok, thanks for your help :thumb: 

I will test that
I was going around in circles with these tests, and I was lost 

I was ready to replace my Platinum SE by G.Skill and I saw a review of the SE Torque stable (HCI Memtest) at 4133 17-17-17 and 1.39v (but in Dual Channel and a 7700k)
Maybe my SEs are also "good" in Quad Channel 

For RamTest and with both options in default, is it with the cache disabled, that's right ?

Thanks


----------



## tistou77

I think I have a value in AUTO that is problematic
Yesterday it spent 1 hour of Aida64 and ~ 30 minutes of RamTest (default options)
And today, error with Aida64 after 2mn and the same with Ramtest

EDIT: I may have found, I hope  It will still be this problem of VDIMM applied by the R6E on a channel(unstable, fluctuates)
I have increased 1 notch the VDIMM and for now, I'm 30 minutes from Ramtest (default options)

I also test with IO and SA in AUTO

Before

IO: bios 1.025v => +/- 1.05v in load
SA: bios 0.80v => +/- 0.84xv in load

After
IO: bios Auto => +/- 1.024v in load
SA: bios Auto => +/- 0.832v in load

I have to put a little less tension in the bios for these settings?


----------



## tistou77

Error after 45 minutes of Ramtest....
VDIMM ? IO ? SA ? Orther ?

Small question, can a kit in Dual Channel be better than Quad Channel (OC) ?

Thanks to those who are interested in my "problem"


----------



## JMTH

tistou77 said:


> Error after 45 minutes of Ramtest....
> VDIMM ? IO ? SA ? Orther ?
> 
> Small question, can a kit in Dual Channel be better than Quad Channel (OC) ?
> 
> Thanks to those who are interested in my "problem" /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


Humm, you have your OC set to manual correct? Not XMP.

Have you made sure the kit is on your motherboards list? 

Have you tested the memory with everything memory related set to auto? If not, do that to make sure your kit is good.

If it passes then set your primary timings and Ram voltage to your memorys rated settings. Set VCCSA to .9 and VCCIO to 1.05 to start.

Then run RamTest and see if you get an error. After these two tests you will have a good baseline. If it fails the first your memory might be bad. If you fail the 2nd then bump up VCCSA until it passes, maybe bump VCCIO to 1.06-1.10 as well.


----------



## tistou77

JMTH said:


> Humm, you have your OC set to manual correct? Not XMP.
> 
> Have you made sure the kit is on your motherboards list?
> 
> Have you tested the memory with everything memory related set to auto? If not, do that to make sure your kit is good.
> 
> If it passes then set your primary timings and Ram voltage to your memorys rated settings. Set VCCSA to .9 and VCCIO to 1.05 to start.
> 
> Then run RamTest and see if you get an error. After these two tests you will have a good baseline. If it fails the first your memory might be bad. If you fail the 2nd then bump up VCCSA until it passes, maybe bump VCCIO to 1.06-1.10 as well.


Thanks so much for your help

So I updated the bios, and put all the sub-timings in AUTO except tREFI and tRFC
And it's past 1h30 with RamTest
Here are the timings



Some sub-timings can be improved I guess
Without asking for more VDIMM, just optimize them

Thanks


----------



## EDK-TheONE

Did anyone try this program? TestMem5 v0.12


----------



## roybotnik

wingman99 said:


> I had the same thing happen after overclocking Gigabyte Z370 G.SKILL Ripjaws v 16GB F4-3200C14D-16GVK to 3600 15-15-15-35 two days of testing with 6 instances of HCI MemTest and not changing my memory overclock settings it has come down to a weird problem with rebooting my Gigabyte z370. Some boots HCI MemTest runs fine without error for 100-400%. Then sometimes after testing for ~1-20 boots I have all kinds of errors with HCI MemTest preliminary test or at 1%-30% after the last good test.


Same problem here. Gigabyte boards suck for memory OC. I have a Z370 Gaming 7 and I will pass 20000% with RAM Test one day... Then a few days later I reboot and training fails. It's really annoying.


----------



## wingman99

roybotnik said:


> Same problem here. Gigabyte boards suck for memory OC. I have a Z370 Gaming 7 and I will pass 20000% with RAM Test one day... Then a few days later I reboot and training fails. It's really annoying.


Thanks for finding my post to confirm that Gigabyte sucks for memory overclocking. When the Z390 is released I'm switching to ASRock. Did you try increasing the Vdim?


----------



## Daydreaming

I am new to tweaking memory and OC in general. I'm running a Maxmius X Hero with 8700k delided @ 5GHz, 4.4GHz uncore. Team group 4000Mhz 17-17-17-39. (XMP is 19-18-18-18-39).
Bios settings: 1.330v Vcore Adaptive mode. 1.20v VCCIO, 1.225v VCCSA. 1.45v DRAM. 

I can pass Prime 95 v26.6 Blend . Aida64 Bench and stress run for 2 hours or more. 10 loops of Intel Burn Test at Standard, Very High and Maximum. Also an hour or more of Karhu Ram Test using the default settings. However as soon as I  tick the advanced option "CPU cache" it throws an error within 30 minutes. 

The system is otherwise daily use & gaming stable (I run HWINFO all the time and don't get any WHEA errors or crashes) What should I be looking to change to pass Ram Test? Do I need more Vcore?

Also how else can I improve my ram timings - I tried lowering tRAS but that threw errors immediately. I tried changing the command rate and it didn't even want to boot.

edit:
Oh it will also do superpi 32m without error - 6m 45s?


----------



## JMTH

Daydreaming said:


> I am new to tweaking memory and OC in general. I'm running a Maxmius X Hero with 8700k delided @ 5GHz, 4.4GHz uncore. Team group 4000Mhz 17-17-17-39. (XMP is 19-18-18-18-39).
> Bios settings: 1.330v Vcore Adaptive mode. 1.20v VCCIO, 1.225v VCCSA. 1.45v DRAM.
> 
> I can pass Prime 95 v26.6 Blend . Aida64 Bench and stress run for 2 hours or more. 10 loops of Intel Burn Test at Standard, Very High and Maximum. Also an hour or more of Karhu Ram Test using the default settings. However as soon as I  tick the advanced option "CPU cache" it throws an error within 30 minutes.
> 
> The system is otherwise daily use & gaming stable (I run HWINFO all the time and don't get any WHEA errors or crashes) What should I be looking to change to pass Ram Test? Do I need more Vcore?
> 
> Also how else can I improve my ram timings - I tried lowering tRAS but that threw errors immediately. I tried changing the command rate and it didn't even want to boot.
> 
> edit:
> Oh it will also do superpi 32m without error - 6m 45s?


First thing is bump your cache voltage up and test with RamTest with Cache on until the error goes away. Your CPU Cache OC is unstable. 

Do you want higher freq or better timings? 

Use manual instead of xmp.

Make sure you know where your memok or cmos reset buttons are. In case you get stuck in a reboot loop. 

Reset your cmos every once and a while, sometimes subset timings you can't even see will get set at values that cause issues. 

Also there are tons of other memory settings that you have to look through and set. Find someone that has your same board and see if they posted their bios text file. 

For memory drop all those other tests and use Stressapptest in BASH, RamTest, or HCI Memtest. Stressapptest = RamTest in default mode. HCI Memtest = RamTest with cache on. 

For your Dram voltage decide on where you feel comfortable. Figure out what type of die your chips are, i.e. Samsung B. You should be able to find that in AIDA64. Then Google around for the safe 24/7 voltage and decide where you want to max out at.

First thing with every other timing set on auto set your to tRFC 170-250ish and tRFE as high as it will go and pass a stress test. Then keep these values set. You shouldn't have to change them again, but you might, just depends lol. 

If you want a higher freq: set your primary timings looser then what they are rated for, so like 19-19-19-40-1. Set secondary and tirtiarry on auto. Keep your voltages for Dram/VCCSA/VCCIO the same, and set them manually. Your BCLK should be 100. Bump the freq up 2 if your mobo can. See if it will boot. If not then either increase your Dram, or move the freq down 1, or change the command rate back to 2, or bump the primary timings up 1 more, 20-20-20-42.

After finding your highest freq or if you just want tighter timings:
If it boots run a memtest, if it passes then start trying to lower your primary timings 1 at a time. Start with tCL and tRP first lower them until it won't boot then back up 1. Do the same with the tRCD, you may end up with something like 17-19-18 etc... But that's OK, just get them as low as you can and pass one of the tests. You can then try and lower your voltages, dram then VCCSA then VCCIO. Just lower one and test, etc... 

Then start hacking away at the secondaries and tirtiarrys. Its all about time at that point, change a setting using memtweek or asrocks memtiming if they will work for you, test your memspeed with AIDA64, change another test speed again. When you think you have something you like, put those settings the bios see if it will boot and stress test it. If it fails then try bumping one of the voltages up again and test. Then start again, rinse and repeat.


----------



## Worldwin

Can anyone figure out what settings affect CR1? No matter what I do CR1 doesn't post. This includes just using XMP and setting CR to 1. I feel like my IMC is weak or mobo is crap at memory oc. Am using 8700k and gaming 7 with 3200C14 memory.


----------



## JMTH

Worldwin said:


> Can anyone figure out what settings affect CR1? No matter what I do CR1 doesn't post. This includes just using XMP and setting CR to 1. I feel like my IMC is weak or mobo is crap at memory oc. Am using 8700k and gaming 7 with 3200C14 memory.


Could be your mobo or the ram. Clear the cmos first. Sometimes settings you cannot see will get set at values that cause issues. Then set oc to manual, everything memory related on auto. See what it boots up into. Do a memory test here to make sure the ram is good. Then only change the CR to 1, unless it's already 1. See if it boots. If not then set the freq lower then what it booted up at and see if that works. Still not working then increase the Dram voltage a little bit at a time until it boots. 

Check to make sure the ram kit is on your mobos memory list.

Re-seat the ram, also make sure it's in the correct slots for how many sticks your using, or swap locations.


----------



## Worldwin

JMTH said:


> Could be your mobo or the ram. Clear the cmos first. Sometimes settings you cannot see will get set at values that cause issues. Then set oc to manual, everything memory related on auto. See what it boots up into. Do a memory test here to make sure the ram is good. Then only change the CR to 1, unless it's already 1. See if it boots. If not then set the freq lower then what it booted up at and see if that works. Still not working then increase the Dram voltage a little bit at a time until it boots.
> 
> Check to make sure the ram kit is on your mobos memory list.
> 
> Re-seat the ram, also make sure it's in the correct slots for how many sticks your using, or swap locations.


I was able to get CR1 working when it was installed on my ryzen system so I know the memory is capable.


----------



## Daydreaming

@JMTH
That is a lot of information to be getting on with, thank you 

They are B-die sticks rated at 4000mhz CL18-19-19-39. I believe the warranty is valid up to 1.5v as well. Hence I was hoping to get tighter timings or more frequency. I guess I need to decide which 

I just bumped up my core/cache voltage from 1.33 to 1.35 and been running RamTest for like an hour so far no issues...


----------



## JMTH

Daydreaming said:


> @JMTH
> That is a lot of information to be getting on with, thank you /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> They are B-die sticks rated at 4000mhz CL18-19-19-39. I believe the warranty is valid up to 1.5v as well. Hence I was hoping to get tighter timings or more frequency. I guess I need to decide which /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> I just bumped up my core/cache voltage from 1.33 to 1.35 and been running RamTest for like an hour so far no issues...


No problem, everything I have learned has been from this site hehe so I can't take credit!

Some people run RamTest till like 20k%, I only go to like 2500% or so with cache on, then hit the system with a 1k% on HCI. I have not seen a failure in HCI after RamTest myself. 

I take that back, before the new version of RamTest with cache testing I was getting an error. That's when I finally figured out my cache voltage was too low. That's also when I dropped any AIDA64 stress tests. I was passing 2h of cache testing in it, passing 2500% in RamTest, but failing in HCI. Now I use RamTest on default and HCI (or RamTest with cache on) to catch cache issues.


----------



## Sedril

What's the highest RAM voltage people are using for DDR4 4000? I have a set of G.Skill DDR4 4000 and I've tried numerous times to get to run 4k and it does off and on, but usually 3733 is the best I can get totally stable. I've tried up to 1.45 but still get the Code 55 at boot often... At 3733 there's no issues...

Just wondering if I should keep bumping my voltage up or just settle on 3733....


----------



## wingman99

Sedril said:


> What's the highest RAM voltage people are using for DDR4 4000? I have a set of G.Skill DDR4 4000 and I've tried numerous times to get to run 4k and it does off and on, but usually 3733 is the best I can get totally stable. I've tried up to 1.45 but still get the Code 55 at boot often... At 3733 there's no issues...
> 
> Just wondering if I should keep bumping my voltage up or just settle on 3733....


You could try memory 1.5v Vccio 1.15v and Vccsa 1.25v


----------



## Sedril

wingman99 said:


> You could try memory 1.5v Vccio 1.15v and Vccsa 1.25v


I'll try that, not sure if I feel comfortable with that as 24/7 settings tho... My VCCIO is 1.2250 and my VCCSA is 1.2750...

I'll test 1.5 DRAM and see if it works then try to lower if I can, the highest I've tested so far is 1.45...

Thanks for the response!


----------



## wingman99

Sedril said:


> I'll try that, not sure if I feel comfortable with that as 24/7 settings tho... My VCCIO is 1.2250 and my VCCSA is 1.2750...
> 
> I'll test 1.5 DRAM and see if it works then try to lower if I can, the highest I've tested so far is 1.45...
> 
> Thanks for the response!


Post back how it works out.


----------



## mouacyk

Immortalq said:


> Will post screenshoot when i get back home.
> 
> As for voltage it's not so ungodly, at least for me. [email protected], SA: 1.28, IO: 1.29V.


Still waiting to see those screenshots.


----------



## Sedril

wingman99 said:


> Post back how it works out.


Ok, got it at 1.49 and it's booted and running HCI memtest.... Looks good so far, not sure if I should try to lower it assuming it passes... I'm also not really sure what the highest voltage I should be running for 24/7... I know it's still a debated topic....

Will try to upload a screenshot of aida64 results, not sure if it's good or not.... Timings are 19 19 19 39 with a 5.1ghz oc on the 7700k...


----------



## Sedril

Stuck at boot again, even at 1.49... Think I'll just settle for 3733... Will be upgrading when / if the new 8 core CPU comes out and giving this one to my son anyway.... The difference between 3733 and 4000 probably wouldn't be noticed anyway, still wanted it tho, since it's rated at 4k... Must be the CPU or board holding it back...


----------



## wingman99

Sedril said:


> Ok, got it at 1.49 and it's booted and running HCI memtest.... Looks good so far, not sure if I should try to lower it assuming it passes... I'm also not really sure what the highest voltage I should be running for 24/7... I know it's still a debated topic....
> 
> Will try to upload a screenshot of aida64 results, not sure if it's good or not.... Timings are 19 19 19 39 with a 5.1ghz oc on the 7700k...


 If the memory needs more voltage than stock to run the specified speed and timings I would RMA the RAM or contact G.SKILL and ask them what to do since the memory won't run at tested speed with stock voltage.


----------



## CptSpig

Sedril said:


> Stuck at boot again, even at 1.49... Think I'll just settle for 3733... Will be upgrading when / if the new 8 core CPU comes out and giving this one to my son anyway.... The difference between 3733 and 4000 probably wouldn't be noticed anyway, still wanted it tho, since it's rated at 4k... Must be the CPU or board holding it back...


Did you oc your machine in sequence or are you overclocking all your hardware in one shot? Make sure you oc your CPU with memory and cashe at stock speeds and voltages on auto. Get the CPU stable in RealBench for a least 30 minutes with temps around 80c. Now manually set your memory to stock settings leave your second and third timings on auto. No cashe overclock until your memory is stable at the speed and with all timings set to maximize performance. You can use Gsat in bash for stability. Now you are ready to oc you cashe. At this point I use HCI memtest it checks memory as well as cashe 1000 to 2000 % is sufficient. See below.


----------



## Daydreaming

I got rid of the cache errors in RamTest by increasing the vcore/cache bios setting from 1.33v to 1.35v (adaptive). I was also able to bump the Uncore from 44 to 47 and still be stable. > 5GHz is won't happen though. 

I loosened my memory timings and have started tightening them again. Now I have 16-18-18-39- CR2 with lowered tRFC and increased tREFI. Stable over 5000% RamTest. Copy speed seems bad compared to read & write, also cache?

Do I just keep going - it does not let me adjust tRCD without adjusting tRP at the same time. Any suggestions?

thanks


----------



## Worldwin

Daydreaming said:


> I got rid of the cache errors in RamTest by increasing the vcore/cache bios setting from 1.33v to 1.35v (adaptive). I was also able to bump the Uncore from 44 to 47 and still be stable. > 5GHz is won't happen though.
> 
> I loosened my memory timings and have started tightening them again. Now I have 16-18-18-39- CR2 with lowered tRFC and increased tREFI. Stable over 5000% RamTest. Copy speed seems bad compared to read & write, also cache?
> 
> Do I just keep going - it does not let me adjust tRCD without adjusting tRP at the same time. Any suggestions?
> 
> thanks


If you were getting cache errors under Ramtest you should retest your CPU OC. My bet is you will find those errors again especially since you increased cache from 44 to 47.


----------



## wingman99

Daydreaming said:


> I got rid of the cache errors in RamTest by increasing the vcore/cache bios setting from 1.33v to 1.35v (adaptive). I was also able to bump the Uncore from 44 to 47 and still be stable. > 5GHz is won't happen though.
> 
> I loosened my memory timings and have started tightening them again. Now I have 16-18-18-39- CR2 with lowered tRFC and increased tREFI. Stable over 5000% RamTest. Copy speed seems bad compared to read & write, also cache?
> 
> Do I just keep going - it does not let me adjust tRCD without adjusting tRP at the same time. Any suggestions?
> 
> thanks


The Vcore/cache is for the cores cache. The shared cache voltage is Vccsa (system agent), Vccio (memory controller, shared cache)

Link: https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...cessor-family-s-platform-datasheet-vol-1.html page #113.
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncore


----------



## Daydreaming

wingman99 said:


> The Vcore/cache is for the cores cache. The shared cache voltage is Vccsa (system agent), Vccio (memory controller, shared cache)
> 
> Link: https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...cessor-family-s-platform-datasheet-vol-1.html page #113.
> Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncore


My understanding was that Vcore if too low would cause the 'level 0 cache' WHEA 19 errors.

And that other than bad timings, memory errors would be caused by too low DRAM volts or by too low VCCSA & VCCIO (because they = IMC?). 

When I was getting these errors my _peak_ HwInfo64 readings were Vcore: 1.376v, VCCSA 1.248v and VCCIO 1.240v
Now : Vcore 1.392v, VCCSA 1.280v, VCCIO 1.264v.

I don't know what fixed the issue but so far I cannot replicate the cache errors in Ramtest. Or get any other kind of error in P95, Intel burn test or Memtest hci.

So I guess my OC was not fully stable?


----------



## wingman99

Daydreaming said:


> *My understanding was that Vcore if too low would cause the 'level 0 cache' WHEA 19 errors.
> *
> And that other than bad timings, memory errors would be caused by too low DRAM volts or by too low VCCSA & VCCIO (because they = IMC?).
> 
> When I was getting these errors my _peak_ HwInfo64 readings were Vcore: 1.376v, VCCSA 1.248v and VCCIO 1.240v
> Now : Vcore 1.392v, VCCSA 1.280v, VCCIO 1.264v.
> 
> I don't know what fixed the issue but so far I cannot replicate the cache errors in Ramtest. Or get any other kind of error in P95, Intel burn test or Memtest hci.
> 
> So I guess my OC was not fully stable?


The are 3 caches 1-2 Vcore, 3 shared uncor cache Vccio Vccsa with the cache multiplier in BIOS. Any one of the caches will give you WHEA from different parts of the processor.


----------



## Jpmboy

Daydreaming said:


> My understanding was that Vcore if too low would cause the 'level 0 cache' WHEA 19 errors.
> 
> And that other than bad timings, memory errors would be caused by too low DRAM volts or by too low VCCSA & VCCIO (because they = IMC?).
> 
> When I was getting these errors my _peak_ HwInfo64 readings were Vcore: 1.376v, VCCSA 1.248v and VCCIO 1.240v
> Now : Vcore 1.392v, VCCSA 1.280v, VCCIO 1.264v.
> 
> I don't know what fixed the issue but so far I cannot replicate the cache errors in Ramtest. Or get any other kind of error in P95, Intel burn test or Memtest hci.
> 
> So I guess my OC was not fully stable?



As it has been for several generations of CPUs... If you are getting uncorrectable WHEA (these are MCEs - mismatched checksums) - increase vcore. VccSA is really related to ram training and the IMC, VCCIO mainly affects ram also. This is why these will increase on AUTO, or need to be increased manually as ram frequency increases, but barely need to be changed from stock as CPU freq increases. Cache frequency is also related to ram frequency... eg, on x99 it had to be at least 1/2 the ram frequency.


----------



## SuperMumrik

wingman99 said:


> When you find out what secondary timings change causing the memory errors when rebooting then set the timings manually that worked well in previous settings. Post back how it works out for you.



It took a while, but now memory crashed again.
I was wrong before when I sayed all my timings was manually set, the RTL and IOL timings are not.
Seems like the IOL is the culput since i spotted minor changes there.


The problem; if i set timings manually to the same values as shown in bios, pc wont post


----------



## JMTH

SuperMumrik said:


> wingman99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you find out what secondary timings change causing the memory errors when rebooting then set the timings manually that worked well in previous settings. Post back how it works out for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took a while, but now memory crashed again.
> I was wrong before when I sayed all my timings was manually set, the RTL and IOL timings are not.
> Seems like the IOL is the culput since i spotted minor changes there.
> 
> 
> The problem; if i set timings manually to the same values as shown in bios, pc wont post /forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Click to expand...

That's pretty common. I have all of the Primary and Secondary timing values set manually, as well as 3 of the Tertiary timings. Everything else, timing wise, is on auto.


----------



## wingman99

SuperMumrik said:


> It took a while, but now memory crashed again.
> I was wrong before when I sayed all my timings was manually set, the RTL and IOL timings are not.
> Seems like the IOL is the culput since i spotted minor changes there.
> 
> 
> The problem; if i set timings manually to the same values as shown in bios, pc wont post


I believe you need to use timing checker software. Post back if the results are the same as BIOS?


----------



## Daydreaming

So I feel like this is pretty stable now, getting 400% clearance in HCI memtest and 1.5 hours of Ram Test.

I don't know where to go next. I tried further adjusting tRRD_L & tRRD_s RAS to RAS and tFAW and crashed. Almost insta fail on Ram Test when I reduced the tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg too.


----------



## Lownage

Daydreaming said:


> So I feel like this is pretty stable now, getting 400% clearance in HCI memtest and 1.5 hours of Ram Test.
> 
> I don't know where to go next. I tried further adjusting tRRD_L & tRRD_s RAS to RAS and tFAW and crashed. Almost insta fail on Ram Test when I reduced the tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg too.


You could lower tWR to between 10 and 14. For tRFC try 280.

Edit: what about running 1T?


----------



## KeY0Ke

Dear all

I am encountering some issues with ram oc on my board. Bios version is 1401

Below is the timing i am running partial timings taken from raja:









GSAT is stable for 2 hours, however, upon cold boot or restart, sometimes it fail to boot with post code 55, 49, or memory related post code such as 2a, 29, 26

I am currently running this ram from my other rig:
https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzrx


SA voltage at 1.15v, IO at 1.05v and dram voltage at 1.38V

Cpu is avx2 handbrake transcoding stable

Thanks in advance


----------



## Jpmboy

KeY0Ke said:


> Dear all
> 
> I am encountering some issues with ram oc on my board. Bios version is 1401
> 
> Below is the timing i am running partial timings taken from raja:
> 
> 
> GSAT is stable for 2 hours, however, upon cold boot or restart, sometimes it fail to boot with post code 55, 49, or memory related post code such as 2a, 29, 26
> 
> I am currently running this ram from my other rig:
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzrx
> 
> 
> SA voltage at 1.15v, IO at 1.05v and dram voltage at 1.38V
> 
> Cpu is avx2 handbrake transcoding stable
> 
> Thanks in advance



55 and 49 are training. you can safely increase VSA and VCCIO quite a bit from where it's set currently. try vsa at 1.2-1.25, and vccio at 1.2. Should eliminate the POST training issues.


----------



## KeY0Ke

Jpmboy said:


> 55 and 49 are training. you can safely increase VSA and VCCIO quite a bit from where it's set currently. try vsa at 1.2-1.25, and vccio at 1.2. Should eliminate the POST training issues.


Duplicate post


----------



## KeY0Ke

Jpmboy said:


> 55 and 49 are training. you can safely increase VSA and VCCIO quite a bit from where it's set currently. try vsa at 1.2-1.25, and vccio at 1.2. Should eliminate the POST training issues.


Hey thanks for the reply. Have tried but still the same. Can i check if maximus tweak mode 2 is correct?

The ram is brought over to my intel.rig from my ryzen 2 rig. There should not be any issue with overclocking the ram right as this ram is supposed to be for ryzen


----------



## kdgamer

Hi guys, new to memory overclocking. What is the deal with tRFC? I've noticed with my Team Group Xtreem 8 Pack edition 32GB (4x8) 3200 14-14-14-34 that my tRFC is double what I see in this thread - I don't recall the exact figures as I'm not at home, however around 500-600 if I remember correctly. That is at XMP and it goes up even more if i set 3600 16-16-16-36.


----------



## NeoandGeo

KeY0Ke said:


> Dear all
> 
> I am encountering some issues with ram oc on my board. Bios version is 1401
> 
> SA voltage at 1.15v, IO at 1.05v and dram voltage at 1.38V
> 
> Cpu is avx2 handbrake transcoding stable
> 
> Thanks in advance


I can barely even get bios 1401 to boot even at stock voltages on my Maximus X Hero. Was thinking the extreme overclocks I've subjected my Ram to finally did it in or something. Roll back to the previous bios and all is well again.


----------



## Daydreaming

Lownage said:


> You could lower tWR to between 10 and 14. For tRFC try 280.
> 
> Edit: what about running 1T?


Nope. Fails ramtest when lowering tRFC. Won't boot 1T at all and gives me no useful error code either. There is a Samsung presetting loaded into the bios that will boot at 1t but that is 3200mhz and gives way worse performance than what I have already. 

Should I just be happy with what I have and maybe try and lower the VDIMM, VCCIO & System Agent volts and see if I can maintain stability??


----------



## Daydreaming

kdgamer said:


> Hi guys, new to memory overclocking. What is the deal with tRFC? I've noticed with my Team Group Xtreem 8 Pack edition 32GB (4x8) 3200 14-14-14-34 that my tRFC is double what I see in this thread - I don't recall the exact figures as I'm not at home, however around 500-600 if I remember correctly. That is at XMP and it goes up even more if i set 3600 16-16-16-36.


Have you tried lowering it and testing for stability?


----------



## KeY0Ke

NeoandGeo said:


> I can barely even get bios 1401 to boot even at stock voltages on my Maximus X Hero. Was thinking the extreme overclocks I've subjected my Ram to finally did it in or something. Roll back to the previous bios and all is well again.


Hey which bios version you are using? I tried 1101 but still the same maybe because i am using rgb ram.

I read somewhere saying this which is what i am encountering now:
Sorry to be the deal-breaker for the RGB but the different PCB makes handling a bunny, for instance lots of 55 codes at reboot or cold-startup at the same time when they were memtest-stable,this is PCB to blaim,might be additional noise caused by the leds or motherboards that are not perfect tuned for this.


----------



## Desolutional

Is AIDA64 still the best test for cache stability for cache overclocking, or does the new Karhu RAM Test work better? Memory is fully stable under GSAT for 24 hours, just need to check cache now.


----------



## encrypted11

KeY0Ke said:


> Hey which bios version you are using? I tried 1101 but still the same maybe because i am using rgb ram.
> 
> I read somewhere saying this which is what i am encountering now:
> Sorry to be the deal-breaker for the RGB but the different PCB makes handling a bunny, for instance lots of 55 codes at reboot or cold-startup at the same time when they were memtest-stable,this is PCB to blaim,might be additional noise caused by the leds or motherboards that are not perfect tuned for this.


To add on the context: [email protected]'s b die binning
https://community.hwbot.org/topic/151319-b-die-binning/?page=8


----------



## kdgamer

Daydreaming said:


> Have you tried lowering it and testing for stability?


No I haven't done anything with it. How worthwhile is lowering it and what are some realistic targets?


----------



## NeoandGeo

KeY0Ke said:


> Hey which bios version you are using? I tried 1101 but still the same maybe because i am using rgb ram.
> 
> I read somewhere saying this which is what i am encountering now:
> Sorry to be the deal-breaker for the RGB but the different PCB makes handling a bunny, for instance lots of 55 codes at reboot or cold-startup at the same time when they were memtest-stable,this is PCB to blaim,might be additional noise caused by the leds or motherboards that are not perfect tuned for this.


I am using 1301. One weird thing I encountered moving from BIOS to BIOS. I previously upgraded from 1101 to 1301, which reduced my CPU/RAM potential a bit, so I scaled back my overclocks and tightness of my timings. I also noticed that AIDA64 was giving me wonky results, Read/Copy results were about where they should be, but Write was about half what it should be. After the disaster that 1401 was for me, moving back to BIOS 1301 cleared up my AIDA64 issue and I am near where I was with the 1101 BIOS.

Hope they figure out what is wrong on 1401, it's not a widespread problem, but obviously there is an issue that affects some users.


----------



## KeY0Ke

NeoandGeo said:


> I am using 1301. One weird thing I encountered moving from BIOS to BIOS. I previously upgraded from 1101 to 1301, which reduced my CPU/RAM potential a bit, so I scaled back my overclocks and tightness of my timings. I also noticed that AIDA64 was giving me wonky results, Read/Copy results were about where they should be, but Write was about half what it should be. After the disaster that 1401 was for me, moving back to BIOS 1301 cleared up my AIDA64 issue and I am near where I was with the 1101 BIOS.
> 
> Hope they figure out what is wrong on 1401, it's not a widespread problem, but obviously there is an issue that affects some users.


I had wierd issue with 1301. After setting everything correctly at bios, i did a reboot and the bios refuse to boot lol with error code 0d. Tried another reflash same issue occurs


----------



## Jpmboy

KeY0Ke said:


> I had wierd issue with 1301. After setting everything correctly at bios, i did a reboot and the bios refuse to boot lol with error code 0d. Tried another reflash same issue occurs


then what? borked board??


----------



## KeY0Ke

Jpmboy said:


> then what? borked board??


Nope i flash 1101 and 1401 no issues. Wierd i dont understand why either. I did ezflash and flashback for 1301 also same issue

Do you think is rgb rams are more difficult to clock? I have no issues running the ram under manual primary timings and auto sub timings


----------



## Jpmboy

KeY0Ke said:


> Nope i flash 1101 and 1401 no issues. Wierd i dont understand why either. I did ezflash and flashback for 1301 also same issue
> 
> Do you think is rgb rams are more difficult to clock? I have no issues running the ram under manual primary timings and auto sub timings



word is.. yes, the rgb sticks have been "challenging" , tho I have no experience with them. There's enough LEDs on these rigs already today! If the manual settings are working well... what's to complain about?


----------



## KeY0Ke

Jpmboy said:


> word is.. yes, the rgb sticks have been "challenging" , tho I have no experience with them. There's enough LEDs on these rigs already today! If the manual settings are working well... what's to complain about?


my stock is 3200mhz cl 14-14-14-34. trying to fine tune it as its a b die rgb. didnt know rgb is such a hassle even to clock to 3600mhz at 16-16-16-36 2T. its really that bad


----------



## djgar

I've had no problems with my 3600/ 16 RGBs @ 3400 / 14-14-13-32-1T ...


----------



## KeY0Ke

djgar said:


> I've had no problems with my 3600/ 16 RGBs @ 3400 / 14-14-13-32-1T ...


your ram is G Skill F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR right? you are reducing speed and tightening the timings, i believe should have lesser impact then overclocking the speed with tight timings


----------



## djgar

KeY0Ke said:


> your ram is G Skill F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR right? you are reducing speed and tightening the timings, i believe should have lesser impact then overclocking the speed with tight timings


Sounds about right. X99 is not happy over 3450 or so.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

I would like to buy 2 kits of 2x8GB G.Skill 4400 mhz, is it better to take the 2 kits in the same store or I can buy in 2 different stores 
I thought that in the same store, I could have serial numbers that follow and have a better compatibility or no importance ?

Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

tistou77 said:


> Hello
> 
> I would like to buy 2 kits of 2x8GB G.Skill 4400 mhz, is it better to take the 2 kits in the same store or I can buy in 2 different stores
> I thought that in the same store, I could have serial numbers that follow and have a better compatibility or no importance ?
> 
> Thanks


There is no rule, but from the same store is better if you need rma 😛

Why not try g.skill 4x 4000c17?


----------



## Jpmboy

djgar said:


> I've had no problems with my 3600/ 16 RGBs @ 3400 / 14-14-13-32-1T ...


 i believe he has the 3200c16 kits... pretty low bin.


what, not enough LEDs already?


----------



## tistou77

Nizzen said:


> There is no rule, but from the same store is better if you need rma 😛
> 
> Why not try g.skill 4x 4000c17?


Ok thanks 

I wanted to take the 4000 C17, but in RGB, the OC is not famous
Some who have this kit, manage to do that 4000 17-17-17-37 2T, the 1T does not pass (for example)


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> i believe he has the 3200c16 kits... pretty low bin.
> 
> 
> what, not enough LEDs already?


Naaa, they were the only 3600/16 at the time I could find :rolleyess.


----------



## encrypted11

The 4000 C17 RGB seems bad, minimal tightening margins.

If you mananged to find MSI's inhouse overclocker/engineer Toppc's remark he does suggest RGB tridentz's in a certain array do have cold training difficulties.
[email protected] suggests debug code 55s (cold booting) are common even on memtest stable kits


----------



## KeY0Ke

Jpmboy said:


> i believe he has the 3200c16 kits... pretty low bin.
> 
> 
> what, not enough LEDs already?


I gave up on my rgb kit. Mine is cl14. You are right, rgb is a pain to clock


----------



## sabishiihito

Trident RGB kits have shorter traces between the “finger” contacts and the ICs which makes the a lot harder to clock depending on the board manufacturer or even chipset. For instance, Asus M8I can clock the B-die RGB sticks over 4000C12 just fine in my personal experience (tested with 4266C17 kit) but on M9A with same CPU, they can barely do 3866C12. X299 Asrock OCF handles them okay but Asus R6A struggles, again with the same CPU.


----------



## wingman99

sabishiihito said:


> Trident RGB kits have shorter traces between the “finger” contacts and the ICs which makes the a lot harder to clock depending on the board manufacturer or even chipset. For instance, Asus M8I can clock the B-die RGB sticks over 4000C12 just fine in my personal experience (tested with 4266C17 kit) but on M9A with same CPU, they can barely do 3866C12. X299 Asrock OCF handles them okay but Asus R6A struggles, again with the same CPU.


What is m9a, m8i, r6a?


----------



## KeY0Ke

wingman99 said:


> What is m9a, m8i, r6a?


Maximus IX Apex, Maximus VIII impact and Rampave VI Apex


----------



## KeY0Ke

sabishiihito said:


> Trident RGB kits have shorter traces between the “finger” contacts and the ICs which makes the a lot harder to clock depending on the board manufacturer or even chipset. For instance, Asus M8I can clock the B-die RGB sticks over 4000C12 just fine in my personal experience (tested with 4266C17 kit) but on M9A with same CPU, they can barely do 3866C12. X299 Asrock OCF handles them okay but Asus R6A struggles, again with the same CPU.


Really sad, i am going to swap out my kit with 2 kits of F4-4266C19D-16GTZKW. Hope that it will be better. My trident z cannot get pass 3600mhz at cl16. Gsat is stable for 2 hours but cold boot error 49 or 55 even with SA and IO 1.25 and 1.2 suggested by jpmboy. Even 3200mhz i have issues tightening down the timings with 1.38v.


----------



## JMTH

Desolutional said:


> Is AIDA64 still the best test for cache stability for cache overclocking, or does the new Karhu RAM Test work better? Memory is fully stable under GSAT for 24 hours, just need to check cache now.


The best is still probably HCI Memtest to detect cache issues, but RamTest did make the update, it was not available when I was overclocking my ram though. So, I did not get to test it really.

If you can pass Stressapptest in BASH for an hour or two then any failure in HCI, or RamTest with cache on, will most likely be the uncore/cache voltage.


----------



## KeY0Ke

Wrong post


----------



## encrypted11

4500 CL19-19-19-39 SR TridentZ B-die or 4600 CL19-23-23-43 for attempting 4266 C17 1T gsat and why?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

encrypted11 said:


> 4500 CL19-19-19-39 SR TridentZ B-die or 4600 CL19-23-23-43 for attempting 4266 C17 1T gsat and why?



Save $100 and go with the 4400MHz cl19 kit( I own this kit). I might buy the 4500Mhz kit in the future just to check them out. Wouldn't touch the 4600Mhz kit. Timings and voltage tell me not as binned as the 4500 and 4400 kits.


----------



## Lownage

What about these: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...z-C19-Memory-Kit---Black/p/CMK16GX4M2F4600C19

4600 19-19-19-39 @ 1,5V


----------



## glnn_23

glnn_23 -- 7940x @ 4.5 /3.0 --- (4 x 8Gb) G.Skill 4000C15-16-15-36 1T 1.45v --- SA .96v --- IO 1.08v --- Win10 Bash
Used command ' stressapptest -W -M 28800 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200 '

https://imgur.com/vqL3GkB

Running a 7940x in the EVGA Dark now with 2 sets of F4-4266C19D-16GTZA for 32Gb

Tried 4000C15 15 15 36 1T but it doesn't seem to like it much

Asrock Timing Configurator not working properly and also having trouble uploading images.


----------



## KedarWolf

glnn_23 said:


> glnn_23 -- 7940x @ 4.5 /3.0 --- (4 x 8Gb) G.Skill 4000C15-16-15-36 1T 1.45v --- SA .96v --- IO 1.08v --- Win10 Bash
> Used command ' stressapptest -W -M 28800 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200 '
> 
> https://imgur.com/vqL3GkB
> 
> Running a 7940x in the EVGA Dark now with 2 sets of F4-4266C19D-16GTZA for 32Gb
> 
> Tried 4000C15 15 15 36 1T but it doesn't seem to like it much
> 
> Asrock Timing Configurator not working properly and also having trouble uploading images.


For pictures I upload them to Imgur, right click on the uploaded picture, 'Copy image address', and add the URL with 'Insert image' option here.

Also, try this Timing Configurator.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JZ8QelfCRVMQRLG80lh31b1ciUaT1D0m/view?usp=sharing


----------



## glnn_23

KedarWolf said:


> For pictures I upload them to Imgur, right click on the uploaded picture, 'Copy image address', and add the URL with 'Insert image' option here.
> 
> Also, try this Timing Configurator.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JZ8QelfCRVMQRLG80lh31b1ciUaT1D0m/view?usp=sharing




Thanks for your help KedarWolf.


----------



## ansha

Wanted to share an interesting experience with RAM OC on a RVIA with 7640X cpu.
I'm using Flare X 3200 c14 2x8 dimms, tried Raja's 4133 c17 preset - no luck, q code 2b. Lowered it to 4000 and it works flawlessly.
As the auto voltages for IO and SA are crazy high (1.3+), I lowered it to 1.2V for both. 

Now comes the interesting part, later on, I decided to try 4133 divider again but I left the IO and SA at 1.2V, and suddenly it works, and 100% stable (HCI 1000%+ stable)!

So what do I learn from this? Is my cpu's IMC a bit strange since it doesn't like higher IO/SA voltages?

I also tried 4266 with 100bclk and this doesn't work no matter what I do, but using 4133 divider and higher bclk, I can go to 4300mhz max. Do you think this is cpu IMC holding me back or could it be the motherboard sample is not the greatest?


----------



## Jpmboy

ansha said:


> Wanted to share an interesting experience with RAM OC on a RVIA with 7640X cpu.
> I'm using Flare X 3200 c14 2x8 dimms, tried Raja's 4133 c17 preset - no luck, q code 2b. Lowered it to 4000 and it works flawlessly.
> As the auto voltages for IO and SA are crazy high (1.3+), I lowered it to 1.2V for both.
> 
> Now comes the interesting part, later on, I decided to try 4133 divider again but I left the IO and SA at 1.2V, and suddenly it works, and 100% stable (HCI 1000%+ stable)!
> 
> *So what do I learn from this? Is my cpu's IMC a bit strange since it doesn't like higher IO/SA voltages?*
> 
> I also tried 4266 with 100bclk and this doesn't work no matter what I do, but using 4133 divider and higher bclk, I can go to 4300mhz max. Do you think this is cpu IMC holding me back or could it be the motherboard sample is not the greatest?



that's not strange at all. Many (most) CPUs (IMCs) have an inverted "U" or a "fall off" point regarding voltage. with VccSA, more is not always better.


----------



## ansha

Jpmboy said:


> that's not strange at all. Many (most) CPUs (IMCs) have an inverted "U" or a "fall off" point regarding voltage. with VccSA, more is not always better. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


It seems that this particular sample has this point at quite a low voltage. 
It is a bit unusual cpu sample as it also reaches 5.2ghz stable with 1.32-1.33V yet 5.3ghz stability is not achievable even with 1.5V, it just hits a wall...


----------



## venomousdesigns

Fantastic thread thus far, JAM packed full of information! I've got two quick questions which I hope some of the guru's will be able to assist with.

About to be running a 8700K (Delid) on a ASUS Maximus X Code under Water - I'm still up in the air about my RAM selection and thus:

*1.* I've read conflicting information around the 'net concerning 2 DIMM vs 4 DIMM - I'm looking to get 32GB in either 2x16GB or 4x8GB configuration on the Maximus X Code. I've read things about 2 being less strain on the IMC, then things about ASUS T-Topolgy saying outside of the Apex it's better to run 4 and so on. Just wondering if anyone had some 'real-life' experience/recommendations under my above setup?

I believe it has to do with Quad/Dual-Rank?

*2.* With the above answered, I then need to decide on the below. From reviews/feedback on Hardwareluxx/HWBot the Trident's are obviously Samsung B-Die, and also from the latest round of reviews on the Corsair's, they seem to be B-Die as well.

- F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *4*x8GB - 3200Mhz CL14] - *$529*
- F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *4*x8GB - 3600Mhz CL16] - *$543*
- F4-3200C14D-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *2*x16GB - 3200Mhz CL14] - *$450*
- F4-3600C17D-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *2*x16GB - 3600Mhz CL17] - *$483*
- F4-3733C17D-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *2*x16GB - 3733Mhz CL17] - *$499*
- CMW32GX4M4C3200C16 [Vengeance RGB PRO - *4*x8GB - 3200Mhz CL16] - *$419*
- CMW32GX4M4C3600C18 [Vengeance RGB PRO - *4*x8GB - 3600Mhz CL18] - *$459*

Thanks so much! If anyone has any suggestions I've missed, please don't hesitate to throw it into the mix - looking for the best chance of good Overclocks/Timings. iCue use would be a bonus as I'm using Corsair Fans (and the new Pro's have more LEDs) but again those timings look 'lackluster' compared to G.Skill.

VD


----------



## KedarWolf

venomousdesigns said:


> Fantastic thread thus far, JAM packed full of information! I've got two quick questions which I hope some of the guru's will be able to assist with.
> 
> About to be running a 8700K (Delid) on a ASUS Maximus X Code under Water - I'm still up in the air about my RAM selection and thus:
> 
> *1.* I've read conflicting information around the 'net concerning 2 DIMM vs 4 DIMM - I'm looking to get 32GB in either 2x16GB or 4x8GB configuration on the Maximus X Code. I've read things about 2 being less strain on the IMC, then things about ASUS T-Topolgy saying outside of the Apex it's better to run 4 and so on. Just wondering if anyone had some 'real-life' experience/recommendations under my above setup?
> 
> I believe it has to do with Quad/Dual-Rank?
> 
> *2.* With the above answered, I then need to decide on the below. From reviews/feedback on Hardwareluxx/HWBot the Trident's are obviously Samsung B-Die, and also from the latest round of reviews on the Corsair's, they seem to be B-Die as well.
> 
> - F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *4*x8GB - 3200Mhz CL14] - *$529*
> - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *4*x8GB - 3600Mhz CL16] - *$543*
> - F4-3200C14D-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *2*x16GB - 3200Mhz CL14] - *$450*
> - F4-3600C17D-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *2*x16GB - 3600Mhz CL17] - *$483*
> - F4-3733C17D-32GTZR [Trident Z RGB - *2*x16GB - 3733Mhz CL17] - *$499*
> - CMW32GX4M4C3200C16 [Vengeance RGB PRO - *4*x8GB - 3200Mhz CL16] - *$419*
> - CMW32GX4M4C3600C18 [Vengeance RGB PRO - *4*x8GB - 3600Mhz CL18] - *$459*
> 
> Thanks so much! If anyone has any suggestions I've missed, please don't hesitate to throw it into the mix - looking for the best chance of good Overclocks/Timings. iCue use would be a bonus as I'm using Corsair Fans (and the new Pro's have more LEDs) but again those timings look 'lackluster' compared to G.Skill.
> 
> VD


G.Skill RGB RAM has problems overclocking whereas the non-RGB doesn't. 

On my Maximus X Hero with 4x8GB G.Skill CL14 3200 I overclock my RAM much better with all four sticks in then 2x8GB in. And this was true even when I tried 2x8GB G.Skill DDR4 4400.


----------



## encrypted11

I don't suppose I've taken this out of context, but Raja suggests that running 2DPC on T-Topo boards minimises skew between slots on the same channel, and that helps with clocking memory.

On QVL document of the top T-topology boards including the Formula and Code, the 4DIMM SR QVLs go up to 4400MHz while on 2 DIMM it peaks around 4133MHz IIRC.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...memory-treat&p=5082301&viewfull=1#post5082301


----------



## venomousdesigns

KedarWolf said:


> G.Skill RGB RAM has problems overclocking whereas the non-RGB doesn't.
> 
> On my Maximus X Hero with 4x8GB G.Skill CL14 3200 I overclock my RAM much better with all four sticks in then 2x8GB in. And this was true even when I tried 2x8GB G.Skill DDR4 4400.


Thanks so much *KedarWolf* - that's a little sad but can't say unexpected, the more 'features' you throw at something, something has to give. Are we saying MASSIVE differences between say the RGB and non-RGB (I'm no professional OC'er haha)?




encrypted11 said:


> I don't suppose I've taken this out of context, but Raja suggests that running 2DPC on T-Topo boards minimises skew between slots on the same channel, and that helps with clocking memory.
> 
> On QVL document of the top T-topology boards including the Formula and Code, the 4DIMM SR QVLs go up to 4400MHz while on 2 DIMM it peaks around 4133MHz IIRC.
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...memory-treat&p=5082301&viewfull=1#post5082301


Thanks so much for that find *encrypted11* - I'm probably being stupid here but when he says '2DPC', am I getting confused when I think 2DPC = 2 DIMM or has Raja said one thing and you're simply pointing out the QVLs say something else?

The Vengeance RGB Pro's haven't shown up any of the QVLs yet, probably still too new...


----------



## encrypted11

2 dimms per channel. I was also suggesting that asus are probably having a reasonably good success rate on getting the 4 dimm kits to work at their rated speeds than it probably would on 2 (T topo boards like the Hero) if not they wouldn't place the high speed kits on the QVL either.

Non-RGB RAMs may be a better pick overall unless you're running a board (that trains RGB RAMs reasonably well from cold) like the MSI Z370I PRO Carbon.


----------



## Silent Scone

encrypted11 said:


> 2 dimms per channel. I was also suggesting that asus are probably having a reasonably good success rate on getting the 4 dimm kits to work at their rated speeds than it probably would on 2 (T topo boards like the Hero) if not they wouldn't place the high speed kits on the QVL either.
> 
> Non-RGB RAMs may be a better pick overall unless you're running a board (that trains RGB RAMs reasonably well from cold) like the MSI Z370I PRO Carbon.


They're becoming pretty good at supporting both, really. 4 DIMM kits will always be better on T-Top boards, so suggesting them is always good advice.


----------



## KedarWolf

Silent Scone said:


> They're becoming pretty good at supporting both, really. 4 DIMM kits will always be better on T-Top boards, so suggesting them is always good advice.


On my Hero my G.Skill CL14 3200 4x8GB is GSAT stable at 4300MHZ at 18-18-18-34 2T and I can't even get 4133MHZ GSAT stable with two sticks of it in or not even 4133 with the G.Skill 4400 2x8GB kit. :h34r-smi


----------



## venomousdesigns

encrypted11 said:


> 2 dimms per channel. I was also suggesting that asus are probably having a reasonably good success rate on getting the 4 dimm kits to work at their rated speeds than it probably would on 2 (T topo boards like the Hero) if not they wouldn't place the high speed kits on the QVL either.
> 
> Non-RGB RAMs may be a better pick overall unless you're running a board (that trains RGB RAMs reasonably well from cold) like the MSI Z370I PRO Carbon.





Silent Scone said:


> They're becoming pretty good at supporting both, really. 4 DIMM kits will always be better on T-Top boards, so suggesting them is always good advice.





KedarWolf said:


> On my Hero my G.Skill CL14 3200 4x8GB is GSAT stable at 4300MHZ at 18-18-18-34 2T and I can't even get 4133MHZ GSAT stable with two sticks of it in or not even 4133 with the G.Skill 4400 2x8GB kit. :h34r-smi


Thanks again for all the replies - wealth of knowledge and can hopefully help others in the future!

Looks like I'll be going down the *4x*8GB road, now that's been answered - what brand/kit ...

What's interesting is that *F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR* doesn't show up, but the *F4-3600C17Q-32GTZR* does (note CL17) - is that simply to be taken as a grain of salt (outdated QVL etc) or is the CL17 variant of the kit *better*?

Guess I'll wait for a few more Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro reviews to see if they have overclocking potential despite their worse timings (3600CL18 vs 3600CL16 etc).

Basically down to $543 *F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR* vs $529 *F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR* vs $459 *CMW32GX4M4C3600C18* - no brainer from price perspective but just concerned with Corsair's track record. I assume the extra ~$15 for 3600CL16 with the Tridents is worth it? (I know I'm still on the RGB band wagon, and realize their performance may be different haha).


----------



## KedarWolf

venomousdesigns said:


> Thanks again for all the replies - wealth of knowledge and can hopefully help others in the future!
> 
> Looks like I'll be going down the *4x*8GB road, now that's been answered - what brand/kit ...
> 
> What's interesting is that *F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR* doesn't show up, but the *F4-3600C17Q-32GTZR* does (note CL17) - is that simply to be taken as a grain of salt (outdated QVL etc) or is the CL17 variant of the kit *better*?
> 
> Guess I'll wait for a few more Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro reviews to see if they have overclocking potential despite their worse timings (3600CL18 vs 3600CL16 etc).
> 
> Basically down to $543 *F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR* vs $529 *F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR* vs $459 *CMW32GX4M4C3600C18* - no brainer from price perspective but just concerned with Corsair's track record. I assume the extra ~$15 for 3600CL16 with the Tridents is worth it? (I know I'm still on the RGB band wagon, and realize their performance may be different haha).


If you're going 4x8GB the Trident Z non-RGB CL14 is a good bet. The CL14 kit I get 4300MHZ GSAT stable at 18-18-18-34 2T and they are the lower binned Ripjaws 5 kit, the Trident Z are better.

Or if you want the max memory overclock get the two DIMM Apex board and 2x8GB G.Skill CL15 3600 memory. :h34r-smi


----------



## Streetdragon

Last weeks i run slowly into problems with my ram overclock. a month ago it was stable 2000%+ hci and gsat 2h.
Yesterday it crashes gsat instantly. Linux freeze -> hard reset.
Now i run my gskill b-die 3600 c16 @ 3200 14 14 14 24 1T. subtimings on auto. 1.4V
Befor it was stable at 13 14 14 13 21 1T 1.4V with tuned sub timings. Feels bad^^ I thought ram wont degrade or get worse. Maybe it my old haswell-e, or both.
Need winter to do more stability tests!


----------



## KeY0Ke

@Silent Scone [email protected]/4.5---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-38-2T----1.4v---SA 1.075v---Stressapptest----2 Hour

After all the rgb dillemma i am having (difficulty to overclock), have decided to get the 4266mhz cl19 1.4v kit: F4-4266C19D-16GTZSW (bought 2 kits as i require 32gb ram)

Also gotten a 8086k as previous 8700k is having difficult clocking 5ghz, i can only reach 1.38v 4.9ghz. 

IMC on the 8086k is much better then on my 8700k. @encrypted11 lend me the exact same kit (1 kit) and the IMC on 8700k is having difficulty cold booting until we reached SA 1.2125V and IO 1.175V.

IMC on the 8086k requires SA 1.15V and IO 1.075V to cold boot all 4 dimms at 1.4V 4000mhz CL16-17-17-38 gsat stable 2 hours


----------



## ansha

Trying to boot with 4266 divider but there is absolutely nothing I can do to move past q code 26. 4133 is stable with 1.2/1.2V IO/SA voltages. Pushing more IO/SA voltage, relaxing timings, upping dram voltage, nothing works, always gets stuck at 26. 
This is a R6A and 7640X combination with 2x8GB Flare X b-dies, does anyone have an idea what the limiting factor could be here, IMC or motherboard?


----------



## Nizzen

ansha said:


> Trying to boot with 4266 divider but there is absolutely nothing I can do to move past q code 26. 4133 is stable with 1.2/1.2V IO/SA voltages. Pushing more IO/SA voltage, relaxing timings, upping dram voltage, nothing works, always gets stuck at 26.
> This is a R6A and 7640X combination with 2x8GB Flare X b-dies, does anyone have an idea what the limiting factor could be here, IMC or motherboard?


Looks like a platform wall for x299. I've seen 4200 on x299, but no 4266.


Like 3400mhz is "max" on x99 broadwell.


----------



## ansha

Nizzen said:


> Looks like a platform wall for x299. I've seen 4200 on x299, but no 4266.
> 
> 
> Like 3400mhz is "max" on x99 broadwell.


Definitely not an x299 platform wall, at least not with KabyX with DC ram...

I was wondering if someone knows what the usual cause for q code 26 is...


----------



## Ggdax

Anyone has idea how much I can push Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200MHz 16-18-18 2x16 kit RAM?

I wonder if I can get 3400 or 3600 out of it, what should I do there voltage-wise first?

Motherboard - Maximus X Apex


----------



## Nizzen

Ggdax said:


> Anyone has idea how much I can push Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200MHz 16-18-18 2x16 kit RAM?
> 
> I wonder if I can get 3400 or 3600 out of it, what should I do there voltage-wise first?
> 
> Motherboard - Maximus X Apex



Start with 1.5v and 4000 cl19, then go down, if it does not boot


----------



## Silent Scone

Streetdragon said:


> Last weeks i run slowly into problems with my ram overclock. a month ago it was stable 2000%+ hci and gsat 2h.
> Yesterday it crashes gsat instantly. Linux freeze -> hard reset.
> Now i run my gskill b-die 3600 c16 @ 3200 14 14 14 24 1T. subtimings on auto. 1.4V
> Befor it was stable at 13 14 14 13 21 1T 1.4V with tuned sub timings. Feels bad^^ I thought ram wont degrade or get worse. Maybe it my old haswell-e, or both.
> Need winter to do more stability tests!


That's just how it is sometimes. Changes in temperature can affect things like impedances. The system probably wasn't totally stable, to begin with. Once you come to terms with these things, it's not as frustrating when stability changes.


----------



## Nizzen

ansha said:


> Definitely not an x299 platform wall, at least not with KabyX with DC ram...
> 
> I was wondering if someone knows what the usual cause for q code 26 is...



I think it's releated to core pll voltage.


https://overclocking.guide/rog-maximus-ix-x-apex-overclocking-guide/


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone could tell me if this behavior is normal. 

My asrock taichi z370 is giving 0.03 more voltage than what I set in the bios. Does this mean I should keep my voltage under 1.42 (1.45) to keep my ram from degrading?


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone could tell me if this behavior is normal.
> 
> My asrock taichi z370* is giving 0.03 more voltage than what I set in the bios*. Does this mean I should keep my voltage under 1.42 (1.45) to keep my ram from degrading?


is this measured, or via bios or OS software? Either way, 30mV in that range is not gonna make or break the ram kit. Besides, the VDIMM "ceiling" is more of a cpu thing - and why intel sets the max supported XMP voltage.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Both the bios and hwinfo shows ~0.03v higher than manually set. I've been trying to stay under 1.45 (1.42 manual) voltage. As well as 1.2 vccio, 1.25 vccsa. 

Would going to 1.5 (1.47 manual) be safe?


----------



## encrypted11

KeY0Ke said:


> @Silent Scone [email protected]/4.5---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-38-2T----1.4v---SA 1.075v---Stressapptest----2 Hour
> 
> After all the rgb dillemma i am having (difficulty to overclock), have decided to get the 4266mhz cl19 1.4v kit: F4-4266C19D-16GTZSW (bought 2 kits as i require 32gb ram)
> 
> Also gotten a 8086k as previous 8700k is having difficult clocking 5ghz, i can only reach 1.38v 4.9ghz.
> 
> IMC on the 8086k is much better then on my 8700k. @encrypted11 lend me the exact same kit (1 kit) and the IMC on 8700k is having difficulty cold booting until we reached SA 1.2125V and IO 1.175V.
> 
> IMC on the 8086k requires SA 1.15V and IO 1.075V to cold boot all 4 dimms at 1.4V 4000mhz CL16-17-17-38 gsat stable 2 hours


Good work


----------



## ansha

@Jpmboy

My Apex is overvolting the SA, bios and various software show VccSA at 1.248V when it is set at 1.22, so around 0.03V, does yours do the same when combined with 7740X?


----------



## KedarWolf

ansha said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> My Apex is overvolting the SA, bios and various software show VccSA at 1.248V when it is set at 1.22, so around 0.03V, does yours do the same when combined with 7740X?


My Maximus X Hero WiFi AC overvolts SA and VCCSA about that much when stress testing memory.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Alright, so after the last bios (1503) for my Formula, I said to myself, why not go back to RAM oc ? I more or less gave up after not being able to the run my 32Gb at 4000 and went back to 3600c16.
Good news, 3866c17 is stable (20000% ramtest w/ cache, 3 hours GSAT, some games). Not much, but still an OC. I also got better results in aida ram benchmark, so I'm happy.


----------



## ChaosAD

Today i had some free time and gave GSAT a run. Passed 1h at 5Ghz with 2x8Gb Gskill RGB 3600c16 at 4000 [email protected] - 1.1v vccio - 1.1v vccsa. Do you think i can tight some more? 17-16-16 maybe?


----------



## Jpmboy

i'd first try 1TR before tightening the primary timings.


----------



## KeY0Ke

Jpmboy said:


> i'd first try 1TR before tightening the primary timings.


Hmm, is 1T more difficult to run for T topology boards? I tried on mine cant boot. I guess need to down to 3866mhz for 1T


----------



## ChaosAD

Jpmboy said:


> i'd first try 1TR before tightening the primary timings.



No way to run 1T at 4000 no matter what. Max is 3800 for 1T, 3866 some times boot and sometimes stuck with q code. Thats the only issue i hate the hero, other than that excellent board.
So whats next?


----------



## bl4ckdot

Same with the Formula X. Have a very hard doing anything with 1T.


----------



## Jpmboy

ChaosAD said:


> No way to run 1T at 4000 no matter what. Max is 3800 for 1T, 3866 some times boot and sometimes stuck with q code. Thats the only issue i hate the hero, other than that excellent board.
> So whats next?


 what q-code at 3866 with 1T?
and as mentioned... with T-top the command rate is not all that critical. DL a copy of asrock timing configurator (for z370) and post up a snip of your 4000(2T)... a snip of Turbo V core would be helpful too.


----------



## sabishiihito

This is nowhere near 24/7 stable, but assuming the topology is similar between the Z270 and Z370 Formula boards, 1T should be possible at 4GHz.


----------



## ChaosAD

Jpmboy said:


> what q-code at 3866 with 1T?
> and as mentioned... with T-top the command rate is not all that critical. DL a copy of asrock timing configurator (for z370) and post up a snip of your 4000(2T)... a snip of Turbo V core would be helpful too.



I ll check the code later at night and i ll post. I also had uploaded a pic of asrock timing configurator but its gone now, ***? Drag and drop file upload didnt work for me so i uploaded externally and shared the link. Uploaded pic disappeared somehow!


EDIT: Checked the q codes, for 3866 1T is b1, for 4000+ is 49


----------



## Duskie

Right, got something interesting here!

Recently purchased an 8086k and ASRock Z370 Professional i7 board to replace my i7 7800X and X299 Aorus Gaming 7 Pro. (Don't worry, it was a free swap.)

After delidding the other day i've managed to get the following: 

i7 8086k:
5.2Ghz @ 1.34v (-1 AVX offset) with cache ratio at 50.
VCCIO @ 1.256v
VCCSA @ 1.264v

G.Skill Trident Z RGB 4266 16GB kit:
4400Mhz @ 1.42v 19-19-19-39 timings.

CPU has passed over 2 hours of realbench so far, and the memory has passed 1000% on HCI memtest!

https://valid.x86.fr/ebme71

The interesting part is that the RAM previously would struggle to get 4000Mhz stable, and after updating to BIOS 3.10 (Released today) it has been able to run 4400Mhz DDR4 without issue, so if you're on this board or another ASRock board, update that BIOS and go for it!


----------



## Jpmboy

ChaosAD said:


> I ll check the code later at night and i ll post. I also had uploaded a pic of asrock timing configurator but its gone now, ***? Drag and drop file upload didnt work for me so i uploaded externally and shared the link. Uploaded pic disappeared somehow!
> 
> 
> EDIT: Checked the q codes, for 3866 1T is b1, for 4000+ is 49


 Both are training q codes. for 4000, q 49 is ram training (usually bad RTLs). Try using a training vdimm higher than the Eventual Dram Voltage. 25 to 50mV higher. once POST completes, enter bios and check the4 RTL values in the Dram timing menu. What are they?


----------



## tistou77

I need a confirmation, I have a doubt quit reading some
With DDR4, it is the memory controller (Cache) which supports up to 1.50v of VDIMM, not really the memory itself (h24) ?

Thanks


----------



## ChaosAD

Jpmboy said:


> Both are training q codes. for 4000, q 49 is ram training (usually bad RTLs). Try using a training vdimm higher than the Eventual Dram Voltage. 25 to 50mV higher. once POST completes, enter bios and check the4 RTL values in the Dram timing menu. What are they?



Dropped cache from 49 to 44, tried 4133c19 2T (everything else on auto), up to 1.5vdimm and still got q 49 :thumbsdow


----------



## Jpmboy

ChaosAD said:


> Dropped cache from 49 to 44, tried 4133c19 2T (everything else on auto), up to 1.5vdimm and still got q 49 :thumbsdow


what VSa and VCCIO? (ugh - RGB ram  )


----------



## Jpmboy

ansha said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> My Apex is overvolting the SA, bios and various software show VccSA at 1.248V when it is set at 1.22, so around 0.03V, does yours do the same when combined with 7740X?



sorry I missed your question. yes, there is a slight overage:


My Apex: Bios 1301
Set = 1.25V (I'm running my ram at 4500c18  )

Bios reading = 1.272V
Measured with DMM = 1.265V
SIV64 in OS = 1.272V.


So the actual is 15mV higher than set.


----------



## bl4ckdot

4000c17 stable since yesterday, was 3866c17 before (3 hours GSAT, 17000% Ramtest, 1000% HCI, no crash in games) but I just noticed a driver crash (nvidia) this morning after starting my PC. It never happened before, it was rock stable.
Is it because that 4000 are in fact not that stable ?


----------



## ChaosAD

Jpmboy said:


> what VSa and VCCIO? (ugh - RGB ram  )



Tried up to 1.275v for both. 4000c17 with tight timings need only 1.1v for both. (yea - RGB )


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> 4000c17 stable since yesterday, was 3866c17 before (3 hours GSAT, 17000% Ramtest, 1000% HCI, no crash in games) but I just noticed a driver crash (nvidia) this morning after starting my PC. It never happened before, it was rock stable.
> Is it because that 4000 are in fact not that stable ?


or the cache needs tuning. 




ChaosAD said:


> Tried up to 1.275v for both. 4000c17 with tight timings need only 1.1v for both. (yea - RGB )


yeah - probably the sticks. oh well, at least they look good.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> sorry I missed your question. yes, there is a slight overage:
> 
> 
> My Apex: Bios 1301
> Set = 1.25V (I'm running my ram at 4500c18  )
> 
> Bios reading = 1.272V
> Measured with DMM = 1.265V
> SIV64 in OS = 1.272V.
> 
> 
> So the actual is 15mV higher than set.


Which BIOS you think is best, @Jpmboy, and have you tried up to and including 1602?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> what VSa and VCCIO? (ugh - RGB ram  )


 @Jpmboy When I adjust my RTLs I need to set RTL offsets to 15 to get the below settings GSAT stable. If I leave the RTL offsets on Auto with the same manually set RTL settings my PC won't boot.










How can I overcome this?


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> or the cache needs tuning.


Cache wasn't oc. I went back to 3866, had too much issue at 4000, it wasn't stable.


----------



## encrypted11

If you're hitting the "safety wall" on SA/IO, you may want to consider adjusting FCLK Frequency (System Agent Frequency) for early power on.

Intel defaults with 800MHz for H/S platforms but ASUS defaults with 1000MHz. You may gain some DRAM frequency headroom as your IMC requires less voltage per frequency point at 800MHz vs. 1000MHz. There are tradeoffs to be made.


----------



## tistou77

encrypted11 said:


> The screenshots are 2T's for 4000 C17 RGB, 1T for the 4266 C19 non-RGB. Both are GSAT 2H+ tested at least.
> 
> The RGB kit trains terribly on just about 3866+ 1T under say 8.5ns first word. The 3600 C15 XMP with a 8.3ns first word Jpmboy linked should be a good pick assuming the 2018 units are just as great as the older ones.


2 kits of G.Skill 2x8GB 4400 C19 is fine at 4000 17-17-17 1T and 1.37v, I will test at 1.36v 

Thanks for your advice :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Cache wasn't oc. I went back to 3866, had too much issue at 4000, it wasn't stable.


So cache can limit the ram frequency ceiling at any given combination of freq and voltage for both. What I'm saying is that with ram at 4000 the cache may need more than stock voltage to align with the ram overclock (and on many platforms, the idle cache frequency may be too low for a high ram freq. Eg, x99 required ache to be at least 50% of ram freq - so my 3400c13 on x99 must have 1700 (or 17x100) as the lowest cache frequency


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Which BIOS you think is best, @*Jpmboy* , and have you tried up to and including 1602?



I reverted back to 1301 - at least with my combination of stuff, it seems to behave the best. Ram at 4500c18 2T (or 4400c18 1T) with this bios has been glitch-free (and gast, hci, ramtest) stable. I mean, my x79 R4BE, has a thing foir bios 701, all later versions had one thing or another with the (too) many attached devices on that rig. Still running my [email protected] - on 24/7/365!





KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy* When I adjust my RTLs I need to set RTL offsets to 15 to get the below settings GSAT stable. If I leave the RTL offsets on Auto with the same manually set RTL settings my PC won't boot.
> 
> How can I overcome this?


yeah , this is something we discussed earlier - I don't understand exactly what's going on there, the offset is just that and the applied (true) value - which is measured at training - is a combination of the offset and set value (manual or auto) - curious then (and now). I'm not sure there's anything to overcome. 3200c14 kit pushed to 4200 is certainly on the margin limits and not uncommon for querky things like that to show up. Impressive that you ferreted it out tho.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> So cache can limit the ram frequency ceiling at any given combination of freq and voltage for both. What I'm saying is that with ram at 4000 the cache may need more than stock voltage to align with the ram overclock (and on many platforms, the idle cache frequency may be too low for a high cache freq. Eg, x99 required ache to be at least 50% of ram freq - so my 3400c13 on x99 must have 1700 (or 17x100) as the lowest cache frequency


Ho ok, understood. Cache voltage on z370 is tied to the CPU voltage if I'm not mistaken ?


----------



## Lownage

bl4ckdot said:


> Ho ok, understood. Cache voltage on z370 is tied to the CPU voltage if I'm not mistaken ?


Thats right. Difference from 4800 to 5000 MHz was 25mV for me.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Lownage said:


> Thats right. Difference from 4800 to 5000 MHz was 25mV for me.


Ok, I remember going from 1.38v to 1.385V when testing 4000c17. Maybe that wasn't enough


----------



## wingman99

bl4ckdot said:


> Ho ok, understood. Cache voltage on z370 is tied to the CPU voltage if I'm not mistaken ?


First level and second level Cache is cores voltage. Shared Cache is is Vccio (memory controller, shared cache), Vccsa (system agent)


----------



## plisskin

Hi guys, Is there anyone can explain me what is happenig with my oc in ram? as you can see the writte and copy are lower than read ( I'm a noobie with ram oc, but I think this is not normal) Maybe the timmings are wrong... 



Vcore-1.25 / Vccio-SA 1.25. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Ok, I remember going from 1.38v to 1.385V when testing 4000c17. Maybe that wasn't enough



yeah, range it up a bit. in reality, 0.005V is not a change at this level. try 15-25mV vcore (to aid the core cache) when going from 3866 to 4000 on the ram. (in addition to any vccio and vsa you identified before). If you use GSAT, you can see at least 2 error types... a "miscompare on the CPU) error is fixed this way.


----------



## GeneO

Jpmboy said:


> So cache can limit the ram frequency ceiling at any given combination of freq and voltage for both. What I'm saying is that with ram at 4000 the cache may need more than stock voltage to align with the ram overclock (and on many platforms, the idle cache frequency may be too low for a high ram freq. Eg, x99 required ache to be at least 50% of ram freq - so my 3400c13 on x99 must have 1700 (or 17x100) as the lowest cache frequency



Now that (minimum cache frequency) is interesting. I will add that to my parameter space when I next attack my memory overclock.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, range it up a bit. in reality, 0.005V is not a change at this level. try 15-25mV vcore (to aid the core cache) when going from 3866 to 4000 on the ram. (in addition to any vccio and vsa you identified before). If you use GSAT, you can see at least 2 error types... a "miscompare on the CPU) error is fixed this way.


I don't think I've ever disagreed with someone you said and it might be my 80F+ ambient temps. but at 5.1GHZ CPU, 5.0 cache, 4133MHZ memory (ambients temps really hurting my performance) if I run at 1.38v CPU. I get miscompares in GSAT, then when up to 1.41v CPU, pretty much instant miscompares, went down to 1.37v, miscompares gone. :h34r-smi

I opened up HWInfo, VRMs are 60C+, my RAM 50C+, might be the RAM temps.


----------



## Streetdragon

KedarWolf said:


> I don't think I've ever disagreed with someone you said and it might be my 80F+ ambient temps. but at 5.1GHZ CPU, 5.0 cache, 4133MHZ memory (ambients temps really hurting my performance) if I run at 1.38v CPU. I get miscompares in GSAT, then when up to 1.41v CPU, pretty much instant miscompares, went down to 1.37v, miscompares gone. :h34r-smi
> 
> I opened up HWInfo, VRMs are 60C+, my RAM 50C+, might be the RAM temps.


DDR4 over 50°? My ram gets a bit "tricky" over 40°^^ Ambient temp around 28-29°


----------



## KedarWolf

Streetdragon said:


> DDR4 over 50°? My ram gets a bit "tricky" over 40°^^ Ambient temp around 28-29°


Yeah, ambient temps around there.

My RAM while running RAM Test over 2300%. 

My RAM at 1.43v in BIOS, VCCIO at 1.23v SA at 1.25v It really goes much higher than what it's set. .










I moved the back rear fan from blowing air into the case over the CPU water block onto the RAM to blowing air out from the case and put a top 200mm fan blowing air from the front of the case towards the RAM and now the RAM is just under 50C 1900% into RamTest. Still not optimal but happy I'm under 50c.


----------



## Lownage

So I tried this:

DRAM: 1,415V
SA: 1,3125V
IO: 1,3V

DRAM Temp: 39°C

Ramtest found an error after 4000%. Im not quite sure if I should increase SA/IO even more or not.


----------



## KedarWolf

Lownage said:


> So I tried this:
> 
> DRAM: 1,415V
> SA: 1,3125V
> IO: 1,3V
> 
> DRAM Temp: 39°C
> 
> Ramtest found an error after 4000%. Im not quite sure if I should increase SA/IO even more or not.


I'd increase DRAM voltage to 1.43-1.45v and decrease SA and VCCIO to 1.225-1.25v.

b-dies, right?


----------



## Lownage

KedarWolf said:


> I'd increase DRAM voltage to 1.43-1.45v and decrease SA and VCCIO to 1.225-1.25v.
> 
> b-dies, right?


IO and SA that low doesn´t boot at all. I think I´ll just stick with 4400 18-19-19-32 @ 1,4v DRAM, 1,2675v SA and 1,2375v IO. 

Yes, b-dies (Gskill F4-3600C15D-16GTZ)


----------



## encrypted11

Your IMC might be incredibly stretched at 4500MHz.
Fclk on early power on at normal (800Mhz) should lower SA/IO requirements by a noticeable margin for gaining stability.
That's the default SA frequency for the S suffix mainstream platform since skylake.

Seems like good mileage overall, but you may consider increasing the trfc as well.


----------



## Enterprise24

Sorry wrong post...


----------



## Lownage

encrypted11 said:


> Your IMC might be incredibly stretched at 4500MHz.
> Fclk on early power on at normal (800Mhz) should lower SA/IO requirements by a noticeable margin for gaining stability.
> That's the default SA frequency for the S suffix mainstream platform since skylake.
> 
> Seems like good mileage overall, but you may consider increasing the trfc as well.


Never heard of Fclk and googled it. 
Performance isn´t affected much by lowering it from 1000 to 800: 
https://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/con...ultimate-intel-skylake-overclocking-guide.png

I will give it a try. By what margin should I be able to lower SA/IO?

tRFC at 380-400 or even higher?


----------



## encrypted11

Lownage said:


> Never heard of Fclk and googled it.
> Performance isn´t affected much by lowering it from 1000 to 800:
> https://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/con...ultimate-intel-skylake-overclocking-guide.png
> 
> I will give it a try. By what margin should I be able to lower SA/IO?
> 
> tRFC at 380-400 or even higher?


Fclk is the system agent frequency. You're looking around the 30mV range or higher from your stable sa/io voltages at 1000MHz.
If you don't have the best b-die like me, high 300s for trfc is a good start.


----------



## encrypted11

tistou77 said:


> 2 kits of G.Skill 2x8GB 4400 C19 is fine at 4000 17-17-17 1T and 1.37v, I will test at 1.36v
> 
> Thanks for your advice :thumb:


Good oc!


MrTOOSHORT said:


> Save $100 and go with the 4400MHz cl19 kit( I own this kit). I might buy the 4500Mhz kit in the future just to check them out. Wouldn't touch the 4600Mhz kit. Timings and voltage tell me not as binned as the 4500 and 4400 kits.


Thanks for the tip, I'll probably wait for better DRAM prices at the moment.


----------



## KedarWolf

Lownage said:


> IO and SA that low doesn´t boot at all. I think I´ll just stick with 4400 18-19-19-32 @ 1,4v DRAM, 1,2675v SA and 1,2375v IO.
> 
> Yes, b-dies (Gskill F4-3600C15D-16GTZ)


Try RAM voltage from 1.43 and I would test as high as say 1.48v or 1.49v, I've read you can go as high as 1.5 on DDR4 RAM (b-dies) but I'd probably only run that for benching runs and for 24/7 use I'd stay say at 1.47 or under if it helped my RAM stress test stable.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello everyone, I had a quick question on safe voltages for ddr4 bdie. I'm getting close to 4000mhz cl15-15-15-35*-1 however I'm at 1.48v (1.51v in bios and hwinfo). Is it safe to go above that? I know xmp max is 1.5 so should I scale back the timings and lower to 1.47 (1.5 in bios and hwinfo)?

I'm looking to reduce my ram bottleneck as in Overwatch both my 8700k and 1070 usages are always under 50% so i'm assuming its a ram bottleneck


----------



## Rydo

Duskie said:


> Right, got something interesting here!
> 
> Recently purchased an 8086k and ASRock Z370 Professional i7 board to replace my i7 7800X and X299 Aorus Gaming 7 Pro. (Don't worry, it was a free swap.)
> 
> After delidding the other day i've managed to get the following:
> 
> i7 8086k:
> 5.2Ghz @ 1.34v (-1 AVX offset) with cache ratio at 50.
> VCCIO @ 1.256v
> VCCSA @ 1.264v
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z RGB 4266 16GB kit:
> 4400Mhz @ 1.42v 19-19-19-39 timings.
> 
> CPU has passed over 2 hours of realbench so far, and the memory has passed 1000% on HCI memtest!
> 
> https://valid.x86.fr/ebme71
> 
> The interesting part is that the RAM previously would struggle to get 4000Mhz stable, and after updating to BIOS 3.10 (Released today) it has been able to run 4400Mhz DDR4 without issue, so if you're on this board or another ASRock board, update that BIOS and go for it!


I noticed this too, previously I couldn't post above 4000Mhz and now I can boot at 4400Mhz on Z370 Taichi with an 8700k


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> I don't think I've ever disagreed with someone you said and it might be my 80F+ ambient temps. but at 5.1GHZ CPU, 5.0 cache, 4133MHZ memory (ambients temps really hurting my performance) if I run at 1.38v CPU. I get miscompares in GSAT, then when up to 1.41v CPU, pretty much instant miscompares, *went down to 1.37v, miscompares gone*. :h34r-smi
> 
> I opened up HWInfo, VRMs are 60C+, my RAM 50C+, might be the RAM temps.


besides the probably of thermally induced errors, if you are talking about those 3200c14 sticks at 4133, yeah, you will find all sorts of 'edge-effects" with voltages. Voltages do unexpected things when operating at the ram's margin limits. rather than increasing the vcore in that specific case, try lowering the cache one notch. what happens to the miscompares? 




Lownage said:


> So I tried this:
> 
> 
> 
> DRAM: 1,415V
> SA: 1,3125V
> IO: 1,3V
> 
> DRAM Temp: 39°C
> 
> *Ramtest found an error after 4000%*. Im not quite sure if I should increase SA/IO even more or not.


if that single error occurred after like... 3500%, that's still pretty daaum stable. (not holding the nuke codes on that rig I presume  )
That said, I really don't know much about error causes in RT.




MrTOOSHORT said:


> Save $100 and go with the 4400MHz cl19 kit( I own this kit). I might buy the 4500Mhz kit in the future just to check them out. Wouldn't touch the 4600Mhz kit. Timings and voltage tell me not as binned as the 4500 and 4400 kits.


hey T. how's that kit been traeting ya? I have the same 4400c19 kit. It runs 4500 18-18-18 2T at 1.45 quite well. The new 4500+ kits coming out are pricey, but we can expect some really good high freq kits this year (or so I hear). :wheee:


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Hey JP

Sticks running good @ 4200Mhz cl17. Did try to go for more a few weeks ago but gave up for a bit. I'll try again soon, been busy. 4500MHz cl18 is very impressive. Good cpu, mobo and sticks, good overclocker too!


----------



## ogider

And what exactly did you hear about these memories?
It's time to slowly get ready for 9900k(if happens of coz). So new memories too would also be useful: D


----------



## Jpmboy

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Hey JP
> 
> Sticks running good @ 4200Mhz cl17. Did try to go for more a few weeks ago but gave up for a bit. I'll try again soon, been busy. 4500MHz cl18 is very impressive. Good cpu, mobo and sticks, good overclocker too!



in case you try again (also drop the cache to 4.8 or lower until the settings take)
https://www.overclock.net/forum/27485604-post6941.html


----------



## tistou77

To better cool the rams, it is better to have the fans in the top of the case in aspiration or extraction (or no difference) ?
Fans located more than 5cm from the rams

Thanks


----------



## ogider

Imo that depends on whole system inside PC case.
Best is to test both variants during some software memory test. HCI or somethink.

I have everything based on air cooling so I add stress GPU and CPU to the memory test to see a full picture of the temperatures.

But You have water cooling from what I see.


----------



## tistou77

Thanks for your feedback 

I had started doing these tests, but the ambient temperature is changing every day at this time (I have time to test the same day)
According to the first test, it's about the "same" but it will be better than the fans are in aspiration (box overdrive so) to have less dust

I will do tests again when I have more time


----------



## chrcoluk

guys with the results you getting I shouldnt be having a problem but I am.

Is there specific tips or a guide for adjustments to be made for 4 dimm stability.

8600k
ddr4 3200cl14 samsung b die 8 gig x 4
2 sticks is stable at xmp
4 sticks i get memory erros that usually show between 100 and 200 % on hci at cl15 (under speccing ram) or at about 50-100% hci at xmp spec

things i tried other than cl15
dram voltage to 1.38v at cl14 seems to help y needing a higher % and makes itpass ramtest to 2000% run but fails hci still
setting vccio and vccsa back to auto so they volted much higher has no effect auto is 1.2v for vccio and 1.25 for vccsa
vcore as i understand it is also cache voltage and its already fairly high at 1.32v under load

things i not tried but i know i should do

the 2 new sticks in primary dimm slots on their own is a pain tho to access dimm slota i would rather try voltage timing adjustments first if anyone has known solutions for 4 dim loads


----------



## Jpmboy

chrcoluk said:


> guys with the results you getting I shouldnt be having a problem but I am.
> 
> Is there specific tips or a guide for adjustments to be made for 4 dimm stability.
> 
> 8600k
> ddr4 3200cl14 samsung b die 8 gig x 4
> 2 sticks is stable at xmp
> 4 sticks i get memory erros that usually show between 100 and 200 % on hci at cl15 (under speccing ram) or at about 50-100% hci at xmp spec
> 
> things i tried other than cl15
> dram voltage to 1.38v at cl14 seems to help y needing a higher % and makes itpass ramtest to 2000% run but fails hci still
> setting vccio and vccsa back to auto so they volted much higher has no effect auto is 1.2v for vccio and 1.25 for vccsa
> vcore as i understand it is also cache voltage and its already fairly high at 1.32v under load
> 
> things i not tried but i know i should do
> 
> the 2 new sticks in primary dimm slots on their own is a pain tho to access dimm slota i would rather try voltage timing adjustments first if anyone has known solutions for 4 dim loads



is that 2x 16GB kits or a single 4 stick kit (binned by the manufacturer).
What MB? which exact ram kit(s)? CPU OC?... and there is no guide specific to 2 , 4 or 8 slot boards. Sorry.


----------



## plisskin

Hi @*Jpmboy* can you help me with my ram sticks?


I have an strange situation, look at the image.. you can see the memory write and copy are lower than read.. i think this is because it's a no stable oc.. but I don't know what timings need to be changed..


please if you see a worng timing tell me, I'm a noob in ram oc. thanks!


----------



## chrcoluk

its 2 16 gig kits
asrock fatality k6 premium z370
currently cpu OC disabled

boardis 4 slot but I observed the vast majority of people only use 2 dimms,and is a lot of people on internet posting problems with 4 dimms but no resolution, so I am asking is there "generic" tips that have been found to make 4 dimm configurations stable, like good timings to change or voltages etc. I dont understand how specific motherbaords is relevant to that.


----------



## Jpmboy

plisskin said:


> Hi @*Jpmboy* can you help me with my ram sticks?
> 
> 
> I have an extrange situation, look at the image.. you can see the memory write and copy are lower than read.. i think this is because it's a no stable oc.. but I don't know what timings need to be changed..
> please if you see a worng timing tell me, I'm a noob in ram oc. thanks!


yeah, that is strange. I see you used Raja's preset for the 2nd and 3rd timings? If not and you copied by hand, just load the 2x8GB samsung 4133 preset ("Raja's) and then set 18-18-40-2T (or 1T would be better).
What VSa and VCCIO?




chrcoluk said:


> its 2 16 gig kits
> asrock fatality k6 premium z370
> currently cpu OC disabled
> 
> boardis 4 slot but I observed the vast majority of people only use 2 dimms,and is a lot of people on internet posting problems with 4 dimms but no resolution, so I am asking is there "generic" tips that have been found to make 4 dimm configurations stable, like good timings to change or voltages etc. I dont understand how specific motherbaords is relevant to that.


 Specific MB is very relevant to that - they all behave differently based on trace layout, and set parameters differently based on the bios coder (some you have no access to). Using mixed kits is not helping with the problem - i have a link to Raja's article on this, it is also available in the ROG forums. XMP is not likely a solution with two kits (vs a single binned 4 stick kit).

you will likely have to slot-bin (find the best slot for each stick to optimize margins). Unfortunately, there is no set "fix" for this. Don;t be wary of setting the vdimm in the 1.45V range if those are samsung b-die. :thumb:


----------



## plisskin

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, that is strange. I see you used Raja's preset for the 2nd and 3rd timings? If not and you copied by hand, just load the 2x8GB samsung 4133 preset ("Raja's) and then set 18-18-40-2T (or 1T would be better).
> What VSa and VCCIO?





Yes I've set manually looking different settings in this thread, i'll try to do what you said.


My ram sticks is the 4400cl19 kit.


Vccio 1.2 and SA 1.21, but increasing them dont affect in the results in AIDA, maybe bad cpu?



UPDATE: I've tried the preset and the freq. stays at 3700mhz not at 4133, is this normal? 18-18-40-1t



the aida results are better, but latency is insane.. xD 58ns



Thanks!


----------



## chrcoluk

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, that is strange. I see you used Raja's preset for the 2nd and 3rd timings? If not and you copied by hand, just load the 2x8GB samsung 4133 preset ("Raja's) and then set 18-18-40-2T (or 1T would be better).
> What VSa and VCCIO?
> 
> 
> 
> Specific MB is very relevant to that - they all behave differently based on trace layout, and set parameters differently based on the bios coder (some you have no access to). Using mixed kits is not helping with the problem - i have a link to Raja's article on this, it is also available in the ROG forums. XMP is not likely a solution with two kits (vs a single binned 4 stick kit).
> 
> you will likely have to slot-bin (find the best slot for each stick to optimize margins). Unfortunately, there is no set "fix" for this. Don;t be wary of setting the vdimm in the 1.45V range if those are samsung b-die. :thumb:


Yeah thanks man, here is the update.

basically I have done some more testing, and concluded the 2nd set of dimm slots on my asrock board can only go up to 3000mhz stable, this is based on 4 combinations been tested.

Old ram in primary dimm slots
New ram in primary dimm slots
^^ no errors in XMP.
Old ram in secondary dimm slots
New ram in secondary dimm slots
^^ no errors in SPD, errors in XMP at rated speed, no errors at XMP timings but speed reduced to 3000mhz

The board is asrock z370 k6 fatality. Seems the secondary dimm slots are not as good as the primary, there is some posts on the internet from asrock users about having to slow dimms down to make them stable in secondary slots. As rock do tell users to only use those slots in a 4 dimm configuration, but I did this testing to see where the problem might be and I think I have found it. All 4 dimms in my opinion are not faulty.

I have not yet tested all 4 together at 3000mhz tho. These tests take a while and I need sleep and to work also  1 hour per ramtest run and about 3 hours to do a hci run for 200% coverage.

In terms of the dimms matching I would say they different SKUs internally but not at the retail level (sold as the exact same product), however I can confirm they both samsung B die, and when setting XMP in the bios every single timing gets set to the exact same value including secondary, third and fourth timings.

Assuming it stays stable at 3000CL14 I can probably live with that at 32gig, and maybe try to recover some performance with timing adjustments. AIDA tests are almost no loss on memory read, sub 10% on write about 17% on memory copy, latency actually improved slightly at 3000mhz.

In case it needs clarifying, to simplify things I am testing on my balanced windows profile, which sets max cpu speed to 99% which in turns disables turbo clocks, so basically no OC for the ram testing.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

At boot, a code EE (Memory Detect) could come from what ?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

chrcoluk said:


> Yeah thanks man, here is the update.
> 
> basically I have done some more testing, and concluded the 2nd set of dimm slots on my asrock board can only go up to 3000mhz stable, this is based on 4 combinations been tested.
> 
> Old ram in primary dimm slots
> New ram in primary dimm slots
> ^^ no errors in XMP.
> Old ram in secondary dimm slots
> New ram in secondary dimm slots
> ^^ no errors in SPD, errors in XMP at rated speed, no errors at XMP timings but speed reduced to 3000mhz
> 
> The board is asrock z370 k6 fatality. Seems the secondary dimm slots are not as good as the primary, there is some posts on the internet from asrock users about having to slow dimms down to make them stable in secondary slots. As rock do tell users to only use those slots in a 4 dimm configuration, but I did this testing to see where the problem might be and I think I have found it. All 4 dimms in my opinion are not faulty.
> 
> I have not yet tested all 4 together at 3000mhz tho. These tests take a while and I need sleep and to work also  1 hour per ramtest run and about 3 hours to do a hci run for 200% coverage.
> 
> In terms of the dimms matching I would say they different SKUs internally but not at the retail level (sold as the exact same product), however I can confirm they both samsung B die, and when setting XMP in the bios every single timing gets set to the exact same value including secondary, third and fourth timings.
> 
> Assuming it stays stable at 3000CL14 I can probably live with that at 32gig, and maybe try to recover some performance with timing adjustments. AIDA tests are almost no loss on memory read, sub 10% on write about 17% on memory copy, latency actually improved slightly at 3000mhz.
> 
> In case it needs clarifying, to simplify things I am testing on my balanced windows profile, which sets max cpu speed to 99% which in turns disables turbo clocks, so basically no OC for the ram testing.



outside of benchmarks, you are not going to notice a big difference with ram frequencies once above 2800. So 3000c14 is fine. That said, regardless of the kits "being identical" the sticks were not binned to work as a 4 stick set, so XMP working would be lucky. That's just a fact. * Praz has posted about XMP and mixing kits.*


----------



## chrcoluk

As it turns out XMP timings work fine at 3000mhz with all 4 dimms, the issue simply seems to be that the secondary dimm slots are not very good on this board not able to exceed 3000mhz, and I am pretty sure now that was the only thing stopping XMP mode working from the go.


----------



## Creator

I can't seem to figure out secondary timings like tWCL, tRTL and tIOL. I'm pushing my new RAM to the max, and I because the tRTL and tIOL are different each time I boot, it's hard to tell if that's causing instability. What's even more odd is when I try to set them manually, I get no post (even timings that booted fine when set to Auto).

I'm using a kit 4x16GB DDR4 3733. It won't post at 3733, but will do 3600. Working on getting CL16 stable but it's been tough. May have to settle for CL17, but 16 is so close I feel it's just a matter of figuring out those secondary timings. (Want to limit it to 1.35v)


----------



## Jpmboy

Creator said:


> I can't seem to figure out secondary timings like tWCL, tRTL and tIOL. I'm pushing my new RAM to the max, and I because the tRTL and tIOL are different each time I boot, it's hard to tell if that's causing instability. What's even more odd is when I try to set them manually, I get no post (even timings that booted fine when set to Auto).
> 
> I'm using a kit 4x16GB DDR4 3733. It won't post at 3733, but will do 3600. Working on getting CL16 stable but it's been tough. May have to settle for CL17, but 16 is so close I feel it's just a matter of figuring out those secondary timings. (Want to limit it to 1.35v)


What MB? Cas and frequency will drive RTL (which is a measurement taken during post/training related to the physical layout of the DIMM slots and.. cas/freq of course. Round trip latency, signal loop time). Start with RTL on Auto and if the values float at reboots, it is a sign of instability/poor alignment. Tune VSa abd VCCIO until they hold constant for D0 channels (and IOLs are consistent). Once you get that settled, even at a lower freq, work from that base.


----------



## encrypted11

chrcoluk said:


> As it turns out XMP timings work fine at 3000mhz with all 4 dimms, the issue simply seems to be that the secondary dimm slots are not very good on this board not able to exceed 3000mhz, and I am pretty sure now that was the only thing stopping XMP mode working from the go.








MSI engineer Toppc Lin explains XMP in the above video, however that's spoken in Chinese.

He mentioned in simple terms, XMP is simply a flag containing 6-7 values (implies primaries, CR, VDIMM and perhaps it tells the board to raise SA/IO).

The memory subtimings still exist, and these values are always determined by the BIOS tuning of the board vendor and if you're running a QVL'd kit you'd have the benefit of running optimised "safe subtimings" but you shouldn't have issues running a single XMP kit either in most cases.

What you're essentially facing is most likely a subtiming margin mismatch between kit 1 and 2 and that the XMP qualification has been invalidated. Another potential workaround would be placing individual kits in primary slots A2B2, take a photo of the ASRock TC readouts. Of the 2 kits you'd be picking the weakest link, copy its asrock tc subtimings for manual input in the DRAM section of the BIOS. However there's a possibility you'd require higher VDIMMs for accomodating the kit mismatch. That's a crude workaround.


----------



## wingman99

encrypted11 said:


> https://youtu.be/r_5IwHRMwsE
> 
> 
> MSI engineer Toppc Lin explains XMP in the above video, however that's spoken in Chinese.
> 
> He mentioned in simple terms, XMP is simply a flag containing 6-7 values (implies primaries, CR, VDIMM and perhaps it tells the board to raise SA/IO).
> 
> The memory subtimings still exist, and these values are always determined by the BIOS tuning of the board vendor and if you're running a QVL'd kit you'd have the benefit of running optimised "safe subtimings" from the BIOS engineers' tuning but you shouldn't have issues running a single XMP kit either in most cases.
> 
> What you're essentially facing is a subtiming margin mismatch between kit 1 and 2 and that the XMP qualification has been invalidated. Another potential workaround would be placing individual kits in primary slots A2B2, take a photo of the ASRock TC readouts. Of the 2 kits you'd be picking the weakest link, copy its asrock tc subtimings for manual input in the DRAM section of the BIOS. However there's a possibility you'd require higher VDIMMs for accomodating the kit mismatch.


I find on most Z370 motherboards that the motherboard manufactures increase the Vccio and Vccsa with memory multiplier not XMP.


----------



## idahosurge

I am stumped and everything that I have found on the net to try and all suggestions that I have received so far in this forum and in the R6E ROG forum have not worked.

I built my signature rig in December and everything was fine for a week and then in UEFI I selected XMP profile. After that I started getting a lot of AF Detect Memory errors on boot. Like I said I tried everything I could find on the net, like disable fast boot and stuff like that and nothing worked.

This is the ram kit I am using:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232585

Then someone suggested that it was probably my VCCSA voltage so:

Starting with the below voltages my signature rig passed X264 and HCMI. I also ran all benchmarks with out any issues (Cinebench, Realbench, Firestrike, Firestrike Ext, TimeSpy, all the Aida64 BM's with zero issues. The only game I play is Elite Dangerous and I played that for 50+ hours with zero issues. The only issue I had was that every 6 to 14 times I would boot I would get this dam AFDM error and have to do a hard shutdown and reboot.

core: 1.135 @ 4.6 GHz
cache: 1.050 @ 3200 MHz
VCCSA: 1.050
VCCIO: 1.050
VCCIN: 1.880

I tried VCCSA between 0.750 and 1.050 in 0.050 steps, no dice. Lowered VCCIO to 1.000 and tried the same thing with VCCSA no dice. Lowering VCCIO to 0.950 resulted in crashes in games. Lowering cache to 1.000 resulted in crashes in games.

Cleared CMOS and left all OC settings at default, ran for 2.5 weeks (at least 30 boot cycles) with out any AFDM errors.

Remounted the HSF and applied a new coat of CLP then ran for three weeks (at least 36 boot cycles) without any AFDM errors.

Then went into UEFI and set my ram to its rated settings of 16-16-16-36-2T @ 3600 MHz and set the voltage on both dram channels to 1.35.

This made it 6.5 days (11 boot cycles) and then got two AFDM errors on boot in a row yesterday afternoon. I got another AFDM error on boot this morning so now after six days it seems to be getting this error on boot at least every other time I boot.

I am being to think that it is something with the CPU or R6E.

Does anyone have any ideas? If it helps here are my ram timings. IOC B1-B2 / C1-C2 / D1-D2 mirror A1-A2.

https://i.imgur.com/oGLR05r.jpg

At this point the only thing that I can think to try is clear CMOS again then enter my 16-16-16-36-2T timings, but lower the frequency to 3200 and see what happens.


----------



## BotSkill

Try higher VCCSA and VCCIO like 1.15 maybe ... and vdimm up to 1.75v.


----------



## Jpmboy

idahosurge said:


> I am stumped and everything that I have found on the net to try and all suggestions that I have received so far in this forum and in the R6E ROG forum have not worked.
> 
> I built my signature rig in December and everything was fine for a week and then in UEFI I selected XMP profile. After that I started getting a lot of AF Detect Memory errors on boot. Like I said I tried everything I could find on the net, like disable fast boot and stuff like that and nothing worked.
> 
> This is the ram kit I am using:
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232585
> 
> Then someone suggested that it was probably my VCCSA voltage so:
> 
> Starting with the below voltages my signature rig passed X264 and HCMI. I also ran all benchmarks with out any issues (Cinebench, Realbench, Firestrike, Firestrike Ext, TimeSpy, all the Aida64 BM's with zero issues. The only game I play is Elite Dangerous and I played that for 50+ hours with zero issues. The only issue I had was that every 6 to 14 times I would boot I would get this dam AFDM error and have to do a hard shutdown and reboot.
> 
> core: 1.135 @ 4.6 GHz
> cache: 1.050 @ 3200 MHz
> VCCSA: 1.050
> VCCIO: 1.050
> VCCIN: 1.880
> 
> I tried VCCSA between 0.750 and 1.050 in 0.050 steps, no dice. Lowered VCCIO to 1.000 and tried the same thing with VCCSA no dice. Lowering VCCIO to 0.950 resulted in crashes in games. Lowering cache to 1.000 resulted in crashes in games.
> 
> Cleared CMOS and left all OC settings at default, ran for 2.5 weeks (at least 30 boot cycles) with out any AFDM errors.
> 
> Remounted the HSF and applied a new coat of CLP then ran for three weeks (at least 36 boot cycles) without any AFDM errors.
> 
> Then went into UEFI and set my ram to its rated settings of 16-16-16-36-2T @ 3600 MHz and set the voltage on both dram channels to 1.35.
> 
> This made it 6.5 days (11 boot cycles) and then got two AFDM errors on boot in a row yesterday afternoon. I got another AFDM error on boot this morning so now after six days it seems to be getting this error on boot at least every other time I boot.
> 
> I am being to think that it is something with the CPU or R6E.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas? If it helps here are my ram timings. IOC B1-B2 / C1-C2 / D1-D2 mirror A1-A2.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/oGLR05r.jpg
> 
> At this point the only thing that I can think to try is clear CMOS again then enter my 16-16-16-36-2T timings, but lower the frequency to 3200 and see what happens.


So you know that is a dual chanel 4x8GB kit running in quad channel - right? That said, it should still work. First, is there a preset in the R6E bios for 4x8Gb samsung? (check in AID64 or SIV64 for the dram IC manufacturer. If there is, load the Bios ram preset cl,osest to the kits rated frequency. Leave vccio and VSA on Auto (for now, tho the auto rules work well even at 4000c16). BTW - what is an AFDM error?
DL a copy of RamTest, or HCi Memtest ($5) ... or load GSAT into Windows BASH to test the stability. P95 is not really good for ram - nothing like the 3 mentioned. Check that the stick can pass any of these three tests in SPD mode (all Auto everything). If they can, then try loading a preset (or if you must - XMP, which will set things in bios that only a clrcmos or Load opt defaults will undo). Find a stable base to work from - one that will pass 1H GSAT with 90% ram committed, or 1000% Ramtest, 500% HCi Memtest. 

Be sure to have a good system image somewhere... unlike a bad cpu oc, a bad ram OC can completely corrupt an OS install, and not give any warning.


----------



## sabishiihito

Jpmboy said:


> So you know that is a dual chanel 4x8GB kit running in quad channel - right? That said, it should still work. First, is there a preset in the R6E bios for 4x8Gb samsung? (check in AID64 or SIV64 for the dram IC manufacturer. If there is, load the Bios ram preset cl,osest to the kits rated frequency. Leave vccio and VSA on Auto (for now, tho the auto rules work well even at 4000c16). BTW - what is an AFDM error?
> DL a copy of RamTest, or HCi Memtest ($5) ... or load GSAT into Windows BASH to test the stability. P95 is not really good for ram - nothing like the 3 mentioned. Check that the stick can pass any of these three tests in SPD mode (all Auto everything). If they can, then try loading a preset (or if you must - XMP, which will set things in bios that only a clrcmos or Load opt defaults will undo). Find a stable base to work from - one that will pass 1H GSAT with 90% ram committed, or 1000% Ramtest, 500% HCi Memtest.
> 
> Be sure to have a good system image somewhere... unlike a bad cpu oc, a bad ram OC can completely corrupt an OS install, and not give any warning.


That kit is on both Asus's and G.Skill's QVL for the R6E so XMP should work (theoretically).

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## idahosurge

Jpmboy said:


> So you know that is a dual chanel 4x8GB kit running in quad channel - right? That said, it should still work. First, is there a preset in the R6E bios for 4x8Gb samsung? (check in AID64 or SIV64 for the dram IC manufacturer. If there is, load the Bios ram preset cl,osest to the kits rated frequency. Leave vccio and VSA on Auto (for now, tho the auto rules work well even at 4000c16). BTW - what is an AFDM error?
> DL a copy of RamTest, or HCi Memtest ($5) ... or load GSAT into Windows BASH to test the stability. P95 is not really good for ram - nothing like the 3 mentioned. Check that the stick can pass any of these three tests in SPD mode (all Auto everything). If they can, then try loading a preset (or if you must - XMP, which will set things in bios that only a clrcmos or Load opt defaults will undo). Find a stable base to work from - one that will pass 1H GSAT with 90% ram committed, or 1000% Ramtest, 500% HCi Memtest.
> 
> Be sure to have a good system image somewhere... unlike a bad cpu oc, a bad ram OC can completely corrupt an OS install, and not give any warning.


Thanks and the kit is DDR4 4 sticks 8GB each. It is the 32GB C16 kit version of the two C15 16GB kits that you are running in one of your rigs.

AFDM is displayed only on boot on the R6E OLED (Q-Code) and is AF Detect Memory. This only happens on boot and generally only every six to 14 times I boot do I get this and have to do a hard shutdown and then boot again. All the other times it boots right into Windows. In Windows the kit that I have was set to 16-16-16-36-1T-tRFC 360 / 3600MHz passed HCIMT 500% @ 93% memory used.

The problem is not being stable in Windows!

The problem is only during boot and the memory test ran at boot. On boot sometimes I get the AF Detect Memory error on the OLED (Q-Code) and the rig will not boot all the way into Windows. Once I get this Q-Code error on the OLED I have to do a hard shut down and boot again. Like I said this only seem to happen when my ram is set to 16-16-16-36 @ 3600MHz even when everything else in UEFI is set to auto. It is something to do with the test that UEFI runs or the R6E runs on the memory during boot.


----------



## JMTH

idahosurge said:


> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you know that is a dual chanel 4x8GB kit running in quad channel - right? That said, it should still work. First, is there a preset in the R6E bios for 4x8Gb samsung? (check in AID64 or SIV64 for the dram IC manufacturer. If there is, load the Bios ram preset cl,osest to the kits rated frequency. Leave vccio and VSA on Auto (for now, tho the auto rules work well even at 4000c16). BTW - what is an AFDM error?
> DL a copy of RamTest, or HCi Memtest ($5) ... or load GSAT into Windows BASH to test the stability. P95 is not really good for ram - nothing like the 3 mentioned. Check that the stick can pass any of these three tests in SPD mode (all Auto everything). If they can, then try loading a preset (or if you must - XMP, which will set things in bios that only a clrcmos or Load opt defaults will undo). Find a stable base to work from - one that will pass 1H GSAT with 90% ram committed, or 1000% Ramtest, 500% HCi Memtest.
> 
> Be sure to have a good system image somewhere... unlike a bad cpu oc, a bad ram OC can completely corrupt an OS install, and not give any warning. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and the kit is DDR4 4 sticks 8GB each. It is the 32GB C16 kit version of the two C15 16GB kits that you are running in one of your rigs.
> 
> AFDM is displayed only on boot on the R6E OLED and is AF Detect Memory. This only happens on boot and generally only every six to 14 times I boot do I get this and have to do a hard shutdown and then boot again. All the other times it boots right into Windows. In Windows the kit that I have was set to 16-16-16-36-1T-tRFC 360 / 3600MHz passed HCIMT 500% @ 93% memory used.
> 
> The problem is not being stable in Windows!
> 
> The problem is only during boot and the memory test ran at boot. On boot sometimes I get the AF Detect Memory error on the OLED and the rig will not boot all the way into Windows. Once I get this error on the OLED I have to do a hard shut down and boot again. Like I said this only seem to happen when my ram is set to 16-16-16-36 @ 3600MHz even when everything else in UEFI is set to auto. It is something to do with the test that UEFI runs or the R6E runs on the memory during boot.
Click to expand...

Is your memory Samsung B-die? If so then bump your ram voltage up. 1.4 to 1.45. I am running mine at 1.405 @ 3200 on a X99 system.

Get one or more of the memory stress tests that Jpmboy recommend. BASH + stressapptest are free and very fast, won't show you cache errors though. HCI is like $5, shows memory and cache errors but it's slow and you have to open as many instances as you have threads. RamTest is like $12, has modes that shows or doesn't show cache errors. Speed is in-between stressapptest and HCI.

My guess is your ram voltage is too low.


----------



## idahosurge

JMTH said:


> Is your memory Samsung B-die? If so then bump your ram voltage up. 1.4 to 1.45. I am running mine at 1.405 @ 3200 on a X99 system.
> 
> Get one or more of the memory stress tests that Jpmboy recommend. BASH + stressapptest are free and very fast, won't show you cache errors though. HCI is like $5, shows memory and cache errors but it's slow and you have to open as many instances as you have threads. RamTest is like $12, has modes that shows or doesn't show cache errors. Speed is in-between stressapptest and HCI.
> 
> My guess is your ram voltage is too low.


How do you tell is it is Samsung B-die? According to Aida64 and SIV64X the ram is Samsung.

This is the G.Skill kit:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-VigLink2


----------



## sabishiihito

idahosurge said:


> How do you tell is it is Samsung B-die? According to Aida64 and SIV64X the ram is Samsung.
> 
> This is the G.Skill kit:
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-VigLink2


100% B-Die, it's the only IC out there that can hit the 3600C16 spec.


----------



## JMTH

idahosurge said:


> JMTH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is your memory Samsung B-die? If so then bump your ram voltage up. 1.4 to 1.45. I am running mine at 1.405 @ 3200 on a X99 system.
> 
> Get one or more of the memory stress tests that Jpmboy recommend. BASH + stressapptest are free and very fast, won't show you cache errors though. HCI is like $5, shows memory and cache errors but it's slow and you have to open as many instances as you have threads. RamTest is like $12, has modes that shows or doesn't show cache errors. Speed is in-between stressapptest and HCI.
> 
> My guess is your ram voltage is too low.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you tell is it is Samsung B-die? According to Aida64 and SIV64X the ram is Samsung.
> 
> This is the G.Skill kit:
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-VigLink2
Click to expand...

I am on my phone so I can't search through the thread but click the link and it shows you what to download and where to look.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/

The 1.35v is the recomend voltage but it can sometimes take more, just depends on your Mobo, CPU, etc... I would follow Jpmboys advice though.


----------



## encrypted11

Anyone had luck running tight C16 4000MHz 2T on these?
https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c19d-32gtzsw


----------



## Aontaigh

-Snip-


----------



## DemiSlayer

Im running a 6900k on rampage v extreme with a EKWb X360 extreme kit. My memory is G-Skill 3200mhz 32gb 15cas kit. I can overclock the CPU to 4.5ghz at 1.34 volts and cache to 3.7ghz at 1.32 volts.

I can run realbench for hours at 3200mhz though will still fail aida 64 after a few minutes.
If i set ram to 3000mhz it will pass aida 64 no problem. 

Also at stock speeds i get the same results when attempting 3200mhz.

I am using XMP

Anyone have ideas ? Im fairly new to overclocking. i have adjusted system agent voltage but had little to no effect. 

As a side note. I have replaced the motherboard, CPU, Ram, etc.


----------



## sabishiihito

DemiSlayer said:


> Im running a 6900k on rampage v extreme with a EKWb X360 extreme kit. My memory is G-Skill 3200mhz 32gb 15cas kit. I can overclock the CPU to 4.5ghz at 1.34 volts and cache to 3.7ghz at 1.32 volts.
> 
> I can run realbench for hours at 3200mhz though will still fail aida 64 after a few minutes.
> If i set ram to 3000mhz it will pass aida 64 no problem.
> 
> Also at stock speeds i get the same results when attempting 3200mhz.
> 
> I am using XMP
> 
> Anyone have ideas ? Im fairly new to overclocking. i have adjusted system agent voltage but had little to no effect.
> 
> As a side note. I have replaced the motherboard, CPU, Ram, etc.


You may want to try the Maximus Tweak settings under DRAM configuration.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## DemiSlayer

sabishiihito said:


> You may want to try the Maximus Tweak settings under DRAM configuration.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk




Thanks, Ill try that when i get home.


----------



## Iceman1985

Hi! I'm having issues with my computer setup:

8700K (delidded) doing 5.0 @ 1.36V.
Asus Z370-G matx board
G.Skill 4133c17 2x8 (did not post above 3733Mhz so i sent them back)

G.Skill 3600c17 2x16, currently trying to get these to run at their rated speed but without any luck at all. Highest i can boot is 3466Mhz and that's not stable.
I've tried up to 1.45V vdimm, 1.35V VCCSA + VCCIO without luck.

Right now i'm running 3200c15-15-35 2T and that's perfectly stable but i bought the expensive kit becuase i want the extra performance. Should i send this kit back too?
I can't enter all the secondary timings manually because i simply don't know what i should put there, i haven't found a ram calculator for Intel.

All testing was done with CPU @ stock and even tried cache very low, higher cpu-voltages and so on.. no luck at all 

I feel kinda dumb for selling my 3200c14 4x8gb kit. I thought that this 2x16 3600c17 kit would be easy peasy XMP plug 'n play but no no..

Suggestions for making my computer run advertised speed is very much welcome, or just telling me to get another kit is also fine.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## wingman99

Iceman1985 said:


> Hi! I'm having issues with my computer setup:
> 
> 8700K (delidded) doing 5.0 @ 1.36V.
> Asus Z370-G matx board
> G.Skill 4133c17 2x8 (did not post above 3733Mhz so i sent them back)
> 
> G.Skill 3600c17 2x16, currently trying to get these to run at their rated speed but without any luck at all. Highest i can boot is 3466Mhz and that's not stable.
> I've tried up to 1.45V vdimm, 1.35V VCCSA + VCCIO without luck.
> 
> Right now i'm running 3200c15-15-35 2T and that's perfectly stable but i bought the expensive kit becuase i want the extra performance. Should i send this kit back too?
> I can't enter all the secondary timings manually because i simply don't know what i should put there, i haven't found a ram calculator for Intel.
> 
> All testing was done with CPU @ stock and even tried cache very low, higher cpu-voltages and so on.. no luck at all
> 
> I feel kinda dumb for selling my 3200c14 4x8gb kit. I thought that this 2x16 3600c17 kit would be easy peasy XMP plug 'n play but no no..
> 
> Suggestions for making my computer run advertised speed is very much welcome, or just telling me to get another kit is also fine.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


Have you tried one stick at a time with XMP 3600 speed to see if one stick will run the rated speed and one won't?


----------



## Iceman1985

wingman99 said:


> Have you tried one stick at a time with XMP 3600 speed to see if one stick will run the rated speed and one won't?


That i have not done. I'll try that tomorrow and come back. I'm really sick of memory overclocking after having 4x Amd builds


----------



## Jpmboy

sabishiihito said:


> That kit is on both Asus's and G.Skill's QVL for the R6E so XMP should work (theoretically).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk



Anyway, as said, the kit should work at it's rated frequency, but I would not hold out for XMP stability (on any board).


----------



## DemiSlayer

sabishiihito said:


> You may want to try the Maximus Tweak settings under DRAM configuration.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



I have tried all 3 modes with no luck. I emailed Gskill and they state that the trident-z 3200mhz should work with my combination.


----------



## ViRuS2k

Can anyone help me tweak my set of memory please.
8pack 4x8 4000mhz 18.18.18.38 stuff Samsung B-Die

Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 Motherboard
8700k @5.2/50 Cache
The performance does not look right for some reason i might have tuned something to tight thats cutting bandwith or not relaxing something thats doing the same... also the Latency is high
Can anyone help.... cheers. also has anyone looked or tweaked with this boards IOL`s ect as i dont know how to tweak those from the Apex as there settings are named different....
----------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## lexer

Hello. recently I upgraded my rig to a 8700K - ASUS Z370-A and a pair of ADATA 2X8 GB 3200MHZ SPRECTRIX D40. I got this rams really cheap i wasn't expecting that come with b-die chips. But as you can see in the image the chips are K4A8G085WB-BCRC not BCPB that i normally see in high-quality rams
I updated the bios to 1002 and decided try some overclocking. But i can't even boot at 3600CL 19, i don't know if i'm doing something wrong or the rams are just crappy. 
This is my config 
>VCCIO: 1.2V
>VCCSA: 1.15V
>Memory frequency: 3600 
>Timmings: 19-19-19-40 and i tried others combination too

I really appreciate any help you can provide.


----------



## ajn131

*G.Skill F4-3200C15Q-32GVK Avexir DDR-2666 Impact Rog and F43200C16Q-16TZB*

I've been playing a bit with the these kits and I haven't been able to break mid 70's in Aida64 for read/copy/write. However, I've seen quite a few posts for low to mid-80's with similar kits and hardware. Both Gskill kits seem to run at XMP voltage and 3400 without any other adjustments. I can't seem to get CR1 stable on either kit G.Skill kit. The Avexir DDR4-2666 seems to be a more solid stock performer than both of the higher end and faster G.Skill kits... 

G.Skill F4-3200C15Q-32GVK 
Avexir DDR-2666 Impact Rog 
F43200C16Q-16TZB


Was hoping someone might have some tips.


----------



## Hawk777th

Double post.


----------



## Jpmboy

ajn131 said:


> I've been playing a bit with the these kits and I haven't been able to break mid 70's in Aida64 for read/copy/write. However, I've seen quite a few posts for low to mid-80's with similar kits and hardware. Both Gskill kits seem to run at XMP voltage and 3400 without any other adjustments. I can't seem to get CR1 stable on either kit G.Skill kit. The Avexir DDR4-2666 seems to be a more solid stock performer than both of the higher end and faster G.Skill kits...
> 
> G.Skill F4-3200C15Q-32GVK
> Avexir DDR-2666 Impact Rog
> F43200C16Q-16TZB
> 
> 
> *Was hoping someone might have some tips*.


Has there been any stability testing for any of the posted freqs/timings? No sense in any fine tuning an unstable config. Try Hci Memtest, Ramtest or GSAT run under windows linux (windows BASH). :thumb:


here's a 3400c13 I've been running since the platform launched. Hci, RT and GSAT stable (1000%, 2000%, 2 hours)


----------



## Hawk777th

Hey all, I needed to upgrade my X99 5960X rig to 32gb from 16gb for some apps I use. I went and got some Corsair RGB Pro 32GB CL 15 my old ram was Hyper X Predator 16gb 2400 CL12.

I pulled out my Hyper X and stuck in the Corsair and the PC wouldn't even post with the ram in. I loaded defaults cleared CMOS and still would not boot. I updated to new bios reloaded defaults and finally made it to Win 10 Boot but would crash on booting. I tried to run the XMP profile which was a waste of time I couldn't post again. I went in and set 2133 and rated timings and bumped Vcore .100V (Stock Clocks) 1.37V on Ram made it to Windows 10 finally. Needless to say I then got a BSOD in an hr of just general usage.

What is going on here? Is this stuff not X99 rated? I am about to just put my old ram back in I have spent two days trying to figure out why this stuff isn't stable. It passes HCI Memtest. I have run real bench etc and just keep getting BSOD.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ.../Vengeance-PRO-RGB-Black/p/CMW32GX4M4C3000C15


----------



## ViRuS2k

ViRuS2k said:


> Can anyone help me tweak my set of memory please.
> 8pack 4x8 4000mhz 18.18.18.38 stuff Samsung B-Die
> 
> Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 Motherboard
> 8700k @5.2/50 Cache
> The performance does not look right for some reason i might have tuned something to tight thats cutting bandwith or not relaxing something thats doing the same... also the Latency is high
> Can anyone help.... cheers. also has anyone looked or tweaked with this boards IOL`s ect as i dont know how to tweak those from the Apex as there settings are named different....
> ----------------------------------------------------------------


--

Can anyone help, me please or tips on what to relax or tighten
FYI i cant go T1 at all for some reason....
but any other settings i could try thanks.


----------



## ajn131

*G.Skill F4-3200C15Q-32GVK Avexir DDR-2666 Impact Rog and F43200C16Q-16TZB*



Jpmboy said:


> Has there been any stability testing for any of the posted freqs/timings? No sense in any fine tuning an unstable config. Try Hci Memtest, Ramtest or GSAT run under windows linux (windows BASH). :thumb:
> 
> 
> here's a 3400c13 I've been running since the platform launched. Hci, RT and GSAT stable (1000%, 2000%, 2 hours)


Thanks Jpmboy, I ran HCI - I think I did it right. I didn't see any errors after about 4 hours with the G.skill FC-3200C15-32GVK kit running at XMP settings with the frequency adjusted in the bios to 3400Mhz. Not sure what to try and adjust from here. I think this kit has the "B-die" that everyone is talking about, but the Aida64 numbers just seem low compared to some of the other results I've seen with similar hardware.


----------



## mouacyk

ajn131 said:


> Thanks Jpmboy, I ran HCI - I think I did it right. I didn't see any errors after about 4 hours with the G.skill FC-3200C15-32GVK kit running at XMP settings with the frequency adjusted in the bios to 3400Mhz. Not sure what to try and adjust from here. I think this kit has the "B-die" that everyone is talking about, but the Aida64 numbers just seem low compared to some of the other results I've seen with similar hardware.


Doubt it. Not all of your RAM will be available for testing, so you ended up testing the virtual file (SSD or HDD) alongside some RAM. To do it correctly, check your free RAM under task manager first then allocate just the free amount to HCI. Try to get to around 90% of max RAM for best testing. In your case, each HCI instance should be testing about 3.6GB, not 4GB.


----------



## misoonigiri

ajn131 said:


> Thanks Jpmboy, I ran HCI - I think I did it right. I didn't see any errors after about 4 hours with the G.skill FC-3200C15-32GVK kit running at XMP settings with the frequency adjusted in the bios to 3400Mhz. Not sure what to try and adjust from here. I think this kit has the "B-die" that everyone is talking about, but the Aida64 numbers just seem low compared to some of the other results I've seen with similar hardware.


18,000-118,000% coverage in 4hrs quite unlikely for HCI methinks
You entered "4GB" when you're supposed to "Enter megabytes of RAM to test", perhaps HCI took it as 4 megabytes only


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

So I had some EK Monarch ram sinks for a while now, so decided to install them on my G. Skill 4400Mhz CL19 kit. Some pics of the ICs incase anyone was interested. Been busy with work, trying to stabilize 4400Mhz CL17 when I have the time.


----------



## encrypted11

MrTOOSHORT said:


> So I had some EK Monarch ram sinks for a while now, so decided to install them on my G. Skill 4400Mhz CL19 kit. Some pics of the ICs incase anyone was interested. Been busy with work, trying to stabilize 4400Mhz CL17 when I have the time.


Did you get 4266 C17 1T or 4000 C16 1T off the Apex on these?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

encrypted11 said:


> Did you get 4266 C17 1T or 4000 C16 1T off the Apex on these?


I got 4200MHz CL17 with reasonably low voltage.

Just looked, was almost about to buy the 4600MHz or 4500Mhz kits( couldn't decide ), but then noticed the famed 3600MHz CL15 kit in stock @Newegg for about $200 less. HMM...just don't like the red and grey, but that's what the EK sinks are for haha.


----------



## encrypted11

MrTOOSHORT said:


> I got 4200MHz CL17 with reasonably low voltage.
> 
> Just looked, was almost about to buy the 4600MHz or 4500Mhz kits( couldn't decide ), but then noticed the famed 3600MHz CL15 kit in stock @Newegg for about $200 less. HMM...just don't like the red and grey, but that's what the EK sinks are for haha.


Ah that's an excellent kit!
Between the 4400 C19 & 4500 C19 XMP kits, it seemed like the 4500 kit's price point is abit too steep to justify compared to the top dual rank XMP-4000 b-die.

So I'm considering either the 4400-C19 SR 16GB or XMP-4000 C17 dual rank for my 1DPC ITX board, no idea if this would do C16 4000 2T with tuned subs at reasonable voltages.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Ya the 4600 or 4500 kits would come to around $600 shipped CAD, the 3600MHz CL15 kit, $375 shipped. The 4400 kit is around $450. Think I'm crazy to consider the top kits for that price. I'm a little excited for the 3600 CL15 kit now. JP praises those sticks. I might order two sets on Thursday or Friday.

EDIT...


I went ahead and ordered two kits of 3600MHz CL15. I think it's the best stuff around for Samsung B-Die by looking around the webs. Got two kits because hopefully later on when Skylake X refresh comes out, I'll have some dynamite sticks in quad channel. Still have an unused Rampage VI Apex. either or, still excited for the 9900k release.

Paid $733 CAD for two kits of the 3600, the single 4500 cl19 kit would have been $610.


----------



## Jpmboy

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Ya the 4600 or 4500 kits would come to around $600 shipped CAD, the 3600MHz CL15 kit, $375 shipped. The 4400 kit is around $450. Think I'm crazy to consider the top kits for that price. I'm a little excited for the 3600 CL15 kit now. JP praises those sticks. I might order two sets on Thursday or Friday.
> 
> EDIT...
> 
> 
> I went ahead and ordered two kits of 3600MHz CL15. I think it's the best stuff around for Samsung B-Die by looking around the webs. Got two kits because hopefully later on when Skylake X refresh comes out, I'll have some dynamite sticks in quad channel. Still have an unused Rampage VI Apex. either or, still excited for the 9900k release.
> 
> Paid $733 CAD for two kits of the 3600, the single 4500 cl19 kit would have been $610.



good find. they have been my favorite kits!


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> good find. they have been my favorite kits!


Not been able to dial in straight 16s yet? 

Apologies that I've not been posting still of late, I've taken a break from OCN. Truth is I really dislike what Vertical Scope have done with it and it's just not the same for me.


----------



## encrypted11

Will we have a hiscore spreadsheet update? 
I think forum searches were better with the huddler platform


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Not been able to dial in straight 16s yet?
> 
> Apologies that I've not been posting still of late, I've taken a break from OCN. Truth is I really dislike what Vertical Scope have done with it and it's just not the same for me.


lol - what, you missed those posts? 
(even 16-17-16 is tough to keep stable below 1.42V. 16-17-17 has been very reliable even across bios versions)


Yeah, this new UI is slow to warm up to...


----------



## Silent Scone

encrypted11 said:


> Will we have a hiscore spreadsheet update?
> I think forum searches were better with the huddler platform


I will do my best to do a mass update over the next week or so but no promises. Thinking of moving things elsewhere as I really disprove of what's happening on the forum.


----------



## Jpmboy

eh, it ain't that bad.


----------



## Aontaigh

Does my latency seem to be a little bit on the high side for 3866 16-16-16-36-2T?


----------



## Jpmboy

Aontaigh said:


> Does my latency seem to be a little bit on the high side for 3866 16-16-16-36-2T?


slightly

probably related to the RTLs in that configuration. with the 1T below I have the RTLs/IOLs set manually, in the 2T run, I let the board set them (Auto).


----------



## Aontaigh

Jpmboy said:


> slightly
> probably related to the RTLs in that configuration. with the 1T below I have the RTLs/IOLs set manually, in the 2T run, I let the board set them (Auto).



Would you have any advice on how to go about tightening them?



















[I'm not a masochist so have never touched them....]


----------



## ajn131

*G.Skill F4-3200C15Q-32GVK Avexir DDR-2666 Impact Rog and F43200C16Q-16TZB*



misoonigiri said:


> 18,000-118,000% coverage in 4hrs quite unlikely for HCI methinks
> You entered "4GB" when you're supposed to "Enter megabytes of RAM to test", perhaps HCI took it as 4 megabytes only


Thanks mouacyk and misoonigiri - I did screw up the first HCI test. I re-ran it at 3400 and I did get errors as you suspected. I set it back to XMP settings and I had no errors for 24 hours so I guess it's stable at XMP/3200 C15-15-15-35-1T settings. I downloaded Taiphoon Burner and I was surprised to find that the F4-3200C15Q-32GVK kit that I have seems to be Samsung B-die - it's not on any of the lists that I've seen. I think the F4-3200C15Q-32GVK the most potential of the three kits, but the Avexir put up some pretty good numbers for 2666 with XMP.

I haven't been able to get much more performance out of the kit. Maybe I need to adjust System Agent Offset or another Bios parameter to get the kit to run at 1T?

I also ran Taiphoon Burner on the Avexir 2666 kit, but it didn't return as much info.


----------



## Aontaigh

Jpmboy said:


> slightly
> 
> probably related to the RTLs in that configuration. with the 1T below I have the RTLs/IOLs set manually, in the 2T run, I let the board set them (Auto).



I also noticed that my Right Recovery Time (tWR) is getting changed to 11 during training although it is set to 10 via the BIOS.

What could be the reason for that?


----------



## ziddey

Aontaigh said:


> I also noticed that my Right Recovery Time (tWR) is getting changed to 11 during training although it is set to 10 via the BIOS.
> 
> What could be the reason for that?


I can't find where it's said but that's normal and not part of training from what I understand. There may be another timing that's responsible, or it simply is just one higher. I think tWTR is the same way?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @51/48 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400CL19 Kit @4400MHz CL18 1.4v -- SA 1.25v -- IO 1.2v -- HCI 1000%:*


----------



## Jpmboy

MrTOOSHORT said:


> *MrTOOSHORT -- 8700K @51/48 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4400CL19 Kit @4400MHz CL18 1.4v -- SA 1.25v -- IO 1.2v -- HCI 1000%:*


That has got to be one "snappy" rig.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Thanks JP, yes it feels fast. Took a couple days to reach what I got in that screenshot memory wise. Read a lot of posts/forums. 4.8GHz cache was key. I received my 3600 CL15 kits, pretty much the same as the 4400 kit. But the 4400 is a tad better on this rig atleast.


----------



## Jpmboy

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Thanks JP, yes it feels fast. Took a couple days to reach what I got in that screenshot memory wise. Read a lot of posts/forums. 4.8GHz cache was key. I received my 3600 CL15 kits, pretty much the same as the 4400 kit. But the 4400 is a tad better on this rig atleast.


Nice! yeah - the 3600c15 kits are (seem) more sensitive when pushed to 4266+ (mine needs more vccio and vsa). for benching, the 3600c15s handle 4000c12 a bit better - it must a frequency margin vs timings margin thing. My 4400c19 kits (2) did not do as well on x299 in dual or quad channel mode. So I sold one and kept one for z370 etc, 3600c15s work really well on x299


----------



## askan7

Hi, just built myself a new system and I would to get cr1 on my ram but I can only do that with 1 stick in. With 2 sticks in dual channel it won't post even at 2133 cr1.

8700k 4.9ghz 1.25v
2x8gb tridentz 3000c14
MSI z370m gaming pro

Here are my current settings, stable 1h ramtest. Can also run 4200c17 but my rtl/iol get all over the place and can't set them manually.


----------



## Aontaigh

I'm assuming my RTL / IOL of 68/68 and 14/14 is severely hindering my latency but basically any changes to these values will stop the system from posting [All timings have been manually set including IOL Offset Latency]:



















I've tried values such as 63/63 and 7/7, 63/63 and 14/14, etc. but basically nothing will post apart from the values set during training.

Any suggestions for correcting this?


----------



## KedarWolf

Aontaigh said:


> I'm assuming my RTL / IOL of 68/68 and 14/14 is severely hindering my latency but basically any changes to these values will stop the system from posting [All timings have been manually set including IOL Offset Latency]:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried values such as 63/63 and 7/7, 63/63 and 14/14, etc. but basically nothing will post apart from the values set during training.
> 
> Any suggestions for correcting this?


*First I change the Latency Offset like this, reboot. The lower you adjust the Latency Offset the lower your RTLs will be. This is me at 4133MHZ 17-17-17-32 2T.*










*Then I see the settings the RTLs etc are at on the left column and change the adjustable column like this.
*


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> eh, it ain't that bad.


It's terrible.


----------



## askan7

Can anyone help me with this? I would like to get the latency lower too but my board doesn't have Raja's profile and those thertiary timmings don't seem to work for me.

(Sorry about the double post)


----------



## Jpmboy

askan7 said:


> Can anyone help me with this? I would like to get the latency lower too but my board doesn't have Raja's profile and those thertiary timmings don't seem to work for me.
> 
> (Sorry about the double post)


 try RTP to 6, ... and 1T. To get latency down, you'd really have to lower the RTLs. You can also try tWCL at 2 below or more CAS




Silent Scone said:


> It's terrible.



pithy post... ?


----------



## askan7

Jpmboy said:


> try RTP to 6, ... and 1T. To get latency down, you'd really have to lower the RTLs. You can also try tWCL at 2 below or more CAS


1T doesn't post, can only run it in single channel with 1 stick. Funny thing is that this kit was working at 3466 1t on another board. tWCL lower than CAS gives me errors on ramtest.

tRTP to 6, ramtest error at 1800%.


----------



## Jpmboy

askan7 said:


> 1T doesn't post, can only run it in single channel with 1 stick. Funny thing is that this kit was working at 3466 1t on another board. tWCL lower than CAS gives me errors on ramtest.
> 
> *tRTP to 6, ramtest error at 1800%*.


 is this with cache at stock? anyway, cache freq can play into max stable ram frequency (and very tight timings). Lowering tRTP can require +25mV VDIMM and/or a bump in voltage available to cache (or a lower cache multi), or a slight increase in VCCIO... tuning ram depends on the ram kit, and CPU IMC combination. Sometimes, things just won;t align. 


edit: any improvement in latency??


----------



## askan7

Jpmboy said:


> is this with cache at stock? anyway, cache freq can play into max stable ram frequency (and very tight timings). Lowering tRTP can require +25mV VDIMM and/or a bump in voltage available to cache (or a lower cache multi), or a slight increase in VCCIO... tuning ram depends on the ram kit, and CPU IMC combination. Sometimes, things just won;t align.
> 
> 
> edit: any improvement in latency??


Cache is at 4.6ghz, vccio 1.2v. I don't feel comfortable increasing vdimm more since i'm already at 1.45v. Latency is the same on aida64 with tRTP 6, although bandwidth is a bit better. 

I might try to improve 4200c17 since i can lower RTLs but IOLs stay at 12/14.


----------



## Jpmboy

askan7 said:


> Cache is at 4.6ghz, vccio 1.2v. I don't feel comfortable increasing vdimm more since i'm already at 1.45v. Latency is the same on aida64 with tRTP 6, although bandwidth is a bit better.
> 
> *I might try to improve 4200c17 *since i can lower RTLs but IOLs stay at 12/14.


that may be the better route!


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Do you guys* think 1 error at 1024% is an issue? This is with hci memtest 6.1 pro (latest). Thanks!


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Do you guys* think 1 error at 1024% is an issue? This is with hci memtest 6.1 pro (latest). Thanks!



how much ram? 16GB?


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Jpmboy said:


> how much ram? 16GB?


Yep 16 gb


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Yep 16 gb


 yeah - very borderline instability. If that was 32 or 64 GB, I'd call it stable for all but the most regulated (nuke code) uses.


best to isolate the ram subsystem using something like GSAT in Windows Bash (linux). HCi may be a cache issue showing up.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Jpmboy said:


> yeah - very borderline instability. If that was 32 or 64 GB, I'd call it stable for all but the most regulated (nuke code) uses.
> 
> 
> best to isolate the ram subsystem using something like GSAT in Windows Bash (linux). HCi may be a cache issue showing up.


Oh. That might explain alot, over the past week I was testing with GSAT 3hrs each test and I got 3866 @ cl15-16-16-35 stable with all sub timings optimized, and I reset everything because I thought GSAT was psuedo-stable thats why I bought HCI. 

So its possible my ram overclock I got with GSAT was stable and I wasted all my time and could be because of my cache?


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Oh. That might explain alot, over the past week I was testing with GSAT 3hrs each test and I got 3866 @ cl15-16-16-35 stable with all sub timings optimized, and I reset everything because I thought GSAT was psuedo-stable thats why I bought HCI.
> 
> So its possible my ram overclock I got with GSAT was stable and I wasted all my time and could be because of my cache?


GSAT (with the proper memory committed... at least 12288) really isolates the ram better than any other tool. Try HCI with the cache multi on Auto if you must have HCi stability. I prefer GSAT to lock down the ram, then any instability is most likely cache and vcore on z370. On x299 there are some other voltage rails that could need tweaking. Cache freq can limit the max stable ram freq - they are very coupled.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Jpmboy said:


> GSAT (with the proper memory committed... at least 12288) really isolates the ram better than any other tool. Try HCI with the cache multi on Auto if you must have HCi stability. I prefer GSAT to lock down the ram, then any instability is most likely cache and vcore on z370. On x299 there are some other voltage rails that could need tweaking. Cache freq can limit the max stable ram freq - they are very coupled.


Thanks for all the help . 

I'm going to install ubuntu and run GSAT for 2hours each time. Do you think that 1 hour is enough? I remember getting errors around the end of 2 hours when I tested with GSAT before (that could have been the cache issue now that I think about it).


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Thanks for all the help .
> 
> I'm going to install ubuntu and run GSAT for 2hours each time. Do you think that 1 hour is enough? I remember getting errors around the end of 2 hours when I tested with GSAT before (that could have been the cache issue now that I think about it).



1 to 2 hours is sufficient. command: stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
you can sub 12288 above if your system is using alot of ram normally.
On the cache thing... with my 8700K I run 4500c18-19-19-44-2T with tight secondaries and rtls and cache at 4.8 is fine. On my 8086K, the same 2x8GB kit and timings will not run stable with cache over 4.6 (on a chip that runs 5.2 core at 1.285V!) Raising vcore to help the cahe will not fix it, neither with VCCIO or VSA. each cpu-ram combo is very different!


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Jpmboy said:


> 1 to 2 hours is sufficient. command: stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
> you can sub 12288 above if your system is using alot of ram normally.
> On the cache thing... with my 8700K I run 4500c18-19-19-44-2T with tight secondaries and rtls and cache at 4.8 is fine. On my 8086K, the same 2x8GB kit and timings will not run stable with cache over 4.6 (on a chip that runs 5.2 core at 1.285V!) Raising vcore to help the cahe will not fix it, neither with VCCIO or VSA. each cpu-ram combo is very different!


Ok this is really good info, I'll see what my system likes. Hopefully I'll be able to find the sweetspot soon. Again thanks for all the help  have a great night!


----------



## Jpmboy

enjoy.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hello again! 

So I spent all night and all day and I ended up with the screenshot attached. I tested every step (every subtimings *everything) with an hour of gsat for every single one. I used auto for the cache and tried 4.8 after I got those timings. It was unstable in gsat at 4.8 cache but going to 4.7 was stable 1 hour gsat. 

I now have to figure out why my write speed is so low and then do final hci testing.


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> enjoy.


Hmmm ... High Four?


----------



## Eyqbi5646

I found some documentation online and I changed the following timings to 4-4-4 and my write speeds are up there now. Does anyone have any other timings that could be a benefit for my performance?


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hello again!
> 
> So I spent all night and all day and I ended up with the screenshot attached. I tested every step (every subtimings *everything) with an hour of gsat for every single one. I used auto for the cache and tried 4.8 after I got those timings. It was unstable in gsat at 4.8 cache but going to 4.7 was stable 1 hour gsat.
> 
> I now have to figure out why my write speed is so low and then do final hci testing.



I think you have some timing conflicts in there. Some are dependent on others and when too short can cause a clash, and loss of efficiency. I mean this is what I get with 3866:


----------



## Eyqbi5646

I finalized my timings, both read and writes are acceptable to me and it is 1 hour gsat stable. Would you happen to have a list of the timings and the optimized calculations for them? I'm unsure where the conflicts are.


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> I finalized my timings, both read and writes are acceptable to me and it is 1 hour gsat stable. Would you happen to have a list of the timings and the optimized calculations for them? I'm unsure where the conflicts are.


if is running the way you want, then stand pat.


----------



## Robostyle

Hello everyone! I would like to ask for help stabilizing my ram's OC. 
The problem is - it's 16gb stick, highly probable dualrank.

The kit is GSkill Trident Z RGB 2x16 3000Mhz CL14 kit. The matter is, whatever I do, I can't sustaint it stable. Or even boot up, if target frequency is above 3600MHz, whatever voltages I set. 

ATM, I'm just trying to make it running 3200CL14. Any advices?


----------



## toncij

Jpmboy said:


> *


Do you have experience with Intel IMC degaradation in CL CPUs? I suspect IMC in one of my CPUs is degrading by just running CPU at 1.36-1.37V. At start it could run (for test) 5.2 clock and 5.0 cache with 4.26GHz memory. Every month there is a new Chrome "oh, snap!" crash, after which a Memtest86+ throws errors on hammer. It seems that CL is much more sensitive than initially thought.


----------



## Jpmboy

toncij said:


> Do you have experience with Intel IMC degaradation in CL CPUs? I suspect IMC in one of my CPUs is degrading by just running CPU at 1.36-1.37V. At start it could run (for test) 5.2 clock and 5.0 cache with 4.26GHz memory. Every month there is a new Chrome "oh, snap!" crash, after which a Memtest86+ throws errors on hammer. It seems that CL is much more sensitive than initially thought.


eh... I've actually cooked a couple of IMCs across a couple of generations, but in each case it was VSA/VCCIO, or the IMC voltage itself (i believe). With what you describe, I would first suspect cache at 5.0. Not seen a dead IMC or cache on CL... yet.


----------



## toncij

Jpmboy said:


> eh... I've actually cooked a couple of IMCs across a couple of generations, but in each case it was VSA/VCCIO, or the IMC voltage itself (i believe). With what you describe, I would first suspect cache at 5.0. Not seen a dead IMC or cache on CL... yet.


Thanks. Guess I'll send you the CPU so you can see one. I'm sure this one is dying. 

It was not even at 5.0 all the time, mostly 4.8 and then 4.2. CPU from 5.0 to 4.8. Ran 1.36V last night at 4.8 CPU and 4.2 cache, 1 cumulative error after 7 runs. That means even this config is now dead. Will have to check what vsa/vccio defaults XMP did set for mine. But it's degrading at a rapid rate.  Will have to replace before 9900 gets available.


----------



## Jpmboy

toncij said:


> Thanks. Guess I'll send you the CPU so you can see one. I'm sure this one is dying.
> 
> It was not even at 5.0 all the time, mostly 4.8 and then 4.2. CPU from 5.0 to 4.8. Ran 1.36V last night at 4.8 CPU and 4.2 cache, 1 cumulative error after 7 runs. That means even this config is now dead.* Will have to check what vsa/vccio defaults XMP did set for mine.* But it's degrading at a rapid rate.  Will have to replace before 9900 gets available.


Depending on the XMP, these can get pretty high under Auto.


----------



## toncij

Jpmboy said:


> Depending on the XMP, these can get pretty high under Auto.


My auto was: 1.336V for VCCIO and 1.312V for VSA. Asus BIOS is marking these purple, which sounds 'hot'.  But then again, it's marking RAM 1.45V as purple too... ))


----------



## Jpmboy

toncij said:


> My auto was: 1.336V for VCCIO and 1.312V for VSA. Asus BIOS is marking these purple, which sounds 'hot'.  But then again, it's marking RAM 1.45V as purple too... ))



at 4500c18-19-19 "Auto" pushes vsa and vccio near 1.4V Manual, I can lower each over 100mV and run fine below 1.3V each. If I drop the freq (and timings) to 3866c16, vccio and VSA are good at 1.1V and lower. Very steep freq/voltage.


----------



## askan7

@JpmboyHi,

I've been doing some testing. couldn't make 4133mhz completly stable, soo i settled for 4000 17-17-17-37 1.39v. It requires less VCCIO/SA at 1.15v compared to the 4000 16-16-16-36 1.45v at 1.18v.

I'm not sure if it's really worth it to run 1.45v ram with higher imc voltages just for 1 CAS lower.


----------



## Jpmboy

askan7 said:


> @*Jpmboy* Hi,
> 
> I've been doing some testing. couldn't make 4133mhz completly stable, soo i settled for 4000 17-17-17-37 1.39v. It requires less VCCIO/SA at 1.15v compared to the 4000 16-16-16-36 1.45v at 1.18v.
> 
> *I'm not sure if it's really worth it to run 1.45v ram with higher imc voltages just for 1 CAS lower*.



Exactly.


----------



## farmdve

I have 2xCrucial CT8G4DFS824A.C8FDD1 8GB for a total of 16GB. They have no XMP profiles, so any OC I did was manual. I increased the clocks to 2800 and bumped voltage to [email protected], rock solid for a few days, especially playing BF1.


----------



## Jpmboy

farmdve said:


> I have 2xCrucial CT8G4DFS824A.C8FDD1 8GB for a total of 16GB. They have no XMP profiles, so any OC I did was manual. I increased the clocks to 2800 and bumped voltage to [email protected], rock solid for a few days, especially playing BF1.


any real stability testing?


----------



## farmdve

Jpmboy said:


> any real stability testing?


I would say gaming is pretty solid testing. It's heaps better than synthetic stress testers. If any of the modules were bad due to the OC, I would've seen it by now.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf said:


> Yeah, ambient temps around there.
> 
> My RAM while running RAM Test over 2300%.
> 
> My RAM at 1.43v in BIOS, VCCIO at 1.23v SA at 1.25v It really goes much higher than what it's set. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I moved the back rear fan from blowing air into the case over the CPU water block onto the RAM to blowing air out from the case and put a top 200mm fan blowing air from the front of the case towards the RAM and now the RAM is just under 50C 1900% into RamTest. Still not optimal but happy I'm under 50c.


I bought a 3500 RPM RAM fan and with Ambients temps in the 70's my RAM now stays under 33C while stress testing it.


----------



## Jpmboy

farmdve said:


> I would say gaming is pretty solid testing. It's heaps better than synthetic stress testers. If any of the modules were bad due to the OC, I would've seen it by now.


You did see the title of this thread, right? Game stable ? Lol. But enjoy. :thumb:


----------



## farmdve

Jpmboy said:


> You did see the title of this thread, right? Game stable ? Lol. But enjoy. :thumb:


It's rock solid stable, I am telling you. Without the OC, guaranteed to run for a long long while.

So, in summation, Crucial CT8G4DFS824A.C8FDD1 will run just fine on Intel's Z370 platform, at least on ASRock Z370 Extreme4 motherboard. OCs fine to 2800(my particular batch).


----------



## Nizzen

farmdve said:


> It's rock solid stable, I am telling you. Without the OC, guaranteed to run for a long long while.
> 
> So, in summation, Crucial CT8G4DFS824A.C8FDD1 will run just fine on Intel's Z370 platform, at least on ASRock Z370 Extreme4 motherboard. OCs fine to 2800(my particular batch).[/QUOTE
> Oictur
> 
> 
> Picture with HCI, gsat etc, or it did not happend


----------



## Jpmboy

^^


----------



## Kana Chan

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-1848757-1-1.html
How is that possible? 

4700C15 CR2 30.3ns ? 5536mhz / 5334mhz


----------



## Streetdragon

little question about tRAS in DDR4. Should i get it as low as i can or go for the calculation(tCL+tRCD+tRP or what it was)
atm i run my tridenz 3600 cl16 @ 3200 13 14 13 20 T1 with tuned subtimings. 13 14 13 18 was good too, but dont know if it is worth it^^

little edit:
like the ram test. runs fast and found error way faster than HCI memtest over night
ram voltage in bios is 1,395V

i think i can tight up the tRAS more. but dont know if it is worth any more changes.
dram ref cycle time is as low as it gets and dram refresh interval is at its limit too.CAS# write Latency(tWCL) wont go lower


----------



## Kana Chan

They released the 4600 18-22-22-42 awhile ago.


----------



## encrypted11

Got a 4400 kit, will probably tweak when I get the time. By far the old profiles work pretty well.


----------



## a1greg

*XMP wont apply on my ram*

Hello , i recently built a new pc and im new to overclocking , my RAM's XMP profile is making my system fail to boot several times before going into windows , when i set the RAM to default setting it loads just fine , i checked my motherboards QVL prior to purchasing the RAM and its tested working at its XMP profile , can you help me set my XMP and what i need to change to get the advertised XMP speeds , i also tested speeds as low as 3500mhz and that still failed . My RAM is https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-4266c19d-16gtzsw

SPEC:
8700k
z370tachi
970 evo 1TB
gtx 1080 hybrid
nh d15 cooler


----------



## bl4ckdot

a1greg said:


> Hello , i recently built a new pc and im new to overclocking , my RAM's XMP profile is making my system fail to boot several times before going into windows , when i set the RAM to default setting it loads just fine , i checked my motherboards QVL prior to purchasing the RAM and its tested working at its XMP profile , can you help me set my XMP and what i need to change to get the advertised XMP speeds , i also tested speeds as low as 3500mhz and that still failed . My RAM is https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-4266c19d-16gtzsw
> 
> SPEC:
> 8700k
> z370tachi
> 970 evo 1TB
> gtx 1080 hybrid
> nh d15 cooler



I would not expect any RAM <4000, let alone 4266, to work with XMP. You will have to manually set timings and speed.


----------



## encrypted11

The G.SKILL 4266 C19 XMP profile uses Bclk 105. You'll need to raise a couple of voltages before it'll cold boot (standby, maybe PCH, vCore adjustments, Bclk aware adaptive voltages etc.)


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> eh... I've actually cooked a couple of IMCs across a couple of generations, but in each case it was VSA/VCCIO, or the IMC voltage itself (i believe). With what you describe, I would first suspect cache at 5.0. Not seen a dead IMC or cache on CL... yet.


How high did you run IO and SA to kill the IMC? I´m at 1.31250V SA and 1.2875 IO + 1,375 VCore.


----------



## Jpmboy

Lownage said:


> How high did you run IO and SA to kill the IMC? I´m at 1.31250V SA and 1.2875 IO + 1,375 VCore.


 if you read my post... haven't seen a dead IMC on CL (coffee lake)
If those are the bios settings, you shold probably get a reading off the MB. or at least from HWi


----------



## kongasdf

Kongasdf -- 7700K @45/42 -- 2x8Gb G.Skill 4266CL19 RGB Kit @3866MHz CL14 1.54v -- SA 1.200v -- IO 1.232v -- HCI 300%:
A1 BIOS P7.40

https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=218406&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=218408&thumb=1

I tried to break through the wall of DRAM Frequency of 4000MHz, but it have suffered repeated defeats. Debug is changing while it is posting.
Can someone help me to reach 4000MHz?


----------



## encrypted11

encrypted11--i78700K @5.2/4.5---F4-4400C19-8GTZSW----4266Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.42v---IO 1.12---SA 1.15v---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

So you like the new 4400 kit encrypted11?

I always wondered if the older B-Die kits performed better than the newer ones, same models.


----------



## Robostyle

Guys? Could someone help me? Anyone? About that 3000MHz CL14 2x16 b-die kit, can't make it run anything higher/faster at all - even additional 200MHz, and I don't really know what am I missing, b'cause I've tried literally every single setting that directly hits the RAM OC. Is there something hidden/not that obvious, that I should tweak?


----------



## Lownage

Jpmboy said:


> if you read my post... haven't seen a dead IMC on CL (coffee lake)
> If those are the bios settings, you shold probably get a reading off the MB. or at least from HWi


So I played some rounds of BF1 these were the readings:

IO: max 1.328V min 1.304V
SA: max 1.328V min 1.320V

Is it considered safe for 24/7 usage? There are so many different opinions


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> Guys? Could someone help me? Anyone? About that 3000MHz CL14 2x16 b-die kit, can't make it run anything higher/faster at all - even additional 200MHz, and I don't really know what am I missing, b'cause I've tried literally every single setting that directly hits the RAM OC. Is there something hidden/not that obvious, that I should tweak?


Are you Ocing your CPU and Cache? Try taking the Cache multiplier down by 1 or 2.

Post your setup, mb, cpu, etc... Take screens shots of your ram settings etc...


----------



## Robostyle

JMTH said:


> Are you Ocing your CPU and Cache? Try taking the Cache multiplier down by 1 or 2.
> 
> Post your setup, mb, cpu, etc... Take screens shots of your ram settings etc...


https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1707052-g-skill-tridenz-rgb-2x16-oc-issues.html

That's almost everything I've tried. 

I tried OC and non-OC CPU. Though, I can't explain why system works well with XMP rated 3000MHz CL14 + whatever OC for CPU I do, but no go with 3200.
I've tried increasing vRAM.
Tried increasing vSA/vIO - however, I don't know how to test, or trigger instability of SA and IO. At least, I get no errors or crashes with stock vSA and vIO with 3000MHz. 

Maybe I've not done it in right order - or am I missing something?


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> JMTH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Ocing your CPU and Cache? Try taking the Cache multiplier down by 1 or 2.
> 
> Post your setup, mb, cpu, etc... Take screens shots of your ram settings etc...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1707052-g-skill-tridenz-rgb-2x16-oc-issues.html
> 
> That's almost everything I've tried.
> 
> I tried OC and non-OC CPU. Though, I can't explain why system works well with XMP rated 3000MHz CL14 + whatever OC for CPU I do, but no go with 3200.
> I've tried increasing vRAM.
> Tried increasing vSA/vIO - however, I don't know how to test, or trigger instability of SA and IO. At least, I get no errors or crashes with stock vSA and vIO with 3000MHz.
> 
> Maybe I've not done it in right order - or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Well, the fist issue is your not using the correct tests. Go to the first page of this post and download and install at least one of the tests (stressapptest requires bash, HCI memtest, or RamTest).

These stress tests are the best for Ocing Ram. Learn how to use them by searching the site, there are a few posts on them all.

Once you know how to use one or all of them:

1. Reset your mb BIOS to default
2. Test the installed ram with one of the tests to; stressapptest 1 hour, and HCI stress or RamTest 1000%.

This test will show if you have faulty Ram or an issue with some other component (mb, cpu, etc...)

3. Apply your cpu/cache oc and test again with mem test. Also how are you stress testing your CPU oc? 

4. Apply the XMP in your bios, write down all the settings then change it back to manual and type in the settings. It should only be the primary timings and the voltages to the Ram, VCCIO, VCCSA, and possibly the BCLK. Unless your trying to just see how high you can get the ram then change the BCLK to 100. This will keep issues with pci speeds from popping up. Keep your Ram below like 1.45v ish or whatever you feel comfortable with, VCCIO and VCCSA below like 1.2 or 1.25, or look for some with your same setup in this thread and use their settings as a guide.

5. See if the computer will boot and pass one of the mem tests. If it fails the bump up the Ram voltage by .02 or so and try again.

6. If you get it to pass then you can try increasing your mem freq by increasing the primaries by like 3-4 then increasing the freq and try to boot. If it doesn't boot then bump the ram voltage by .01-. 02 until you reach your ram voltage limit or increase your primaries by 1-2 or it boots. If it boots then try increasing it again or test it with one of the mem tests.

7. Once you find the max freq or the level you want then you have to start bringing down the primaries down to as low as you can get them but still boot and pass one of the tests. 

8. Once you have a stable oc on the primaries then you can begin the secondaries etc if wish.

Good luck and have patience it can take a while!


----------



## kongasdf

Jpmboy said:


> I think you have some timing conflicts in there. Some are dependent on others and when too short can cause a clash, and loss of efficiency. I mean this is what I get with 3866:


Hi Jmpboy, I have a question, why not try setting tREFI to the maximum value as 65535? There is a huge performance improvement as same as primary timing.

I still have a question about how to break through the 4000 MHz frequency of DRAM? I can pass the stability test at 3866c14, but can't boot at 4000MHz with full auto timing.


----------



## kongasdf

ViRuS2k said:


> Can anyone help me tweak my set of memory please.
> 8pack 4x8 4000mhz 18.18.18.38 stuff Samsung B-Die
> 
> Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 Motherboard
> 8700k @5.2/50 Cache
> The performance does not look right for some reason i might have tuned something to tight thats cutting bandwith or not relaxing something thats doing the same... also the Latency is high
> Can anyone help.... cheers. also has anyone looked or tweaked with this boards IOL`s ect as i dont know how to tweak those from the Apex as there settings are named different....
> ----------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know why it looks strange. You can try to set tREFI 65534, miracles may happen.


----------



## KedarWolf

a1greg said:


> Hello , i recently built a new pc and im new to overclocking , my RAM's XMP profile is making my system fail to boot several times before going into windows , when i set the RAM to default setting it loads just fine , i checked my motherboards QVL prior to purchasing the RAM and its tested working at its XMP profile , can you help me set my XMP and what i need to change to get the advertised XMP speeds , i also tested speeds as low as 3500mhz and that still failed . My RAM is https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-4266c19d-16gtzsw
> 
> SPEC:
> 8700k
> z370tachi
> 970 evo 1TB
> gtx 1080 hybrid
> nh d15 cooler


When GSAT is done stress testing my RAM at 4200 MHZ I'll post screens of all the BIOS settings I change to keep 4200 stable. 

Check the spoiler.  If you don't see a setting like third timings it's on Auto.



Spoiler


----------



## Abaidor

It's been 7 months since I set-up my system and everything is working fine. However, I was wondering if I can squeeze out some extra performance from my RAM.

I have 4X Trident Z RGB F4-3600C17-16GTZR sticks (64GB Total) on an Asus Rampage VIE and besides tuning the voltage a bit in order to make them boot successfully every time I have not attempted to overclock the RAM or tweak it any further. 

I realized that I there is a CL16 kit as well but this happened months after I purchased mine so can't go back now. 

So is this Quad kit capable of achieving something better on my X299 board with i9-7940X CPU or should I leave it at that. Better timings maybe or higher speed? Is it worth it?

Thanks.


----------



## encrypted11

MrTOOSHORT said:


> So you like the new 4400 kit encrypted11?
> 
> I always wondered if the older B-Die kits performed better than the newer ones, same models.


Hey, it's looking good so far. I haven't tested 4000 C15 benching so far (board caps out at 1.5V VDIMM).

This is the 3rd samsung-b non-RGB kit I've owned (early 2017 3200 C14, early 2018 4266 C19 and the sept 2018 4400 C19).
The 4266 required more voltage and wouldn't bench any lower than flat C16 4000 1T within the VDIMM ceiling of the BIOS. The 3200 would do 4000 15-15-15-35-1T <=1.5V. So the 4266 kit (1 sample) performed the worst among the 3.

No idea about the 4400 kit's limit, I'm looking at adjustments to my daily profile. Probably more 4000< GSAT testing it in a couple of weeks. Hope it caps out at better OC's relative to the 3200.


----------



## Robostyle

JMTH said:


> Well, the fist issue is your not using the correct tests. Go to the first page of this post and download and install at least one of the tests (stressapptest requires bash, HCI memtest, or RamTest).
> 
> These stress tests are the best for Ocing Ram. Learn how to use them by searching the site, there are a few posts on them all.
> 
> Once you know how to use one or all of them:
> 
> 1. Reset your mb BIOS to default
> 2. Test the installed ram with one of the tests to; stressapptest 1 hour, and HCI stress or RamTest 1000%.
> 
> This test will show if you have faulty Ram or an issue with some other component (mb, cpu, etc...)
> 
> 3. Apply your cpu/cache oc and test again with mem test. Also how are you stress testing your CPU oc?
> 
> 4. Apply the XMP in your bios, write down all the settings then change it back to manual and type in the settings. It should only be the primary timings and the voltages to the Ram, VCCIO, VCCSA, and possibly the BCLK. Unless your trying to just see how high you can get the ram then change the BCLK to 100. This will keep issues with pci speeds from popping up. Keep your Ram below like 1.45v ish or whatever you feel comfortable with, VCCIO and VCCSA below like 1.2 or 1.25, or look for some with your same setup in this thread and use their settings as a guide.
> 
> 5. See if the computer will boot and pass one of the mem tests. If it fails the bump up the Ram voltage by .02 or so and try again.
> 
> 6. If you get it to pass then you can try increasing your mem freq by increasing the primaries by like 3-4 then increasing the freq and try to boot. If it doesn't boot then bump the ram voltage by .01-. 02 until you reach your ram voltage limit or increase your primaries by 1-2 or it boots. If it boots then try increasing it again or test it with one of the mem tests.
> 
> 7. Once you find the max freq or the level you want then you have to start bringing down the primaries down to as low as you can get them but still boot and pass one of the tests.
> 
> 8. Once you have a stable oc on the primaries then you can begin the secondaries etc if wish.
> 
> Good luck and have patience it can take a while!


So, 
1. Already 've done it hundred of times, trying once more, but I think its really unnecessary 
2. I don't have Linux, I've never worked with it and not planning to; HCI doesn't work on my system (It just ignores everything, writes "could not allocate 4gb") ; And I don't really sure what ramtest is the correct one, form what google gives me out. 
I use Prime and AIDA for all OC testing needs.

3. Any RAM overclock is unstable whatever CPU OC I apply - it could be 5GHz overclock, it could be cold 4.8, it could be stock settings - everything the same, all over. 

4. XMP keeps bus at default 100MHz clock - don't want to touch it whatsoever. Increasing vSA/vIO/vRAM doesn't help much to me in stabilizing RAM overclock. 

5. In any RAM OC case, the PC boots just fine, even if it is cold boot, no delays. But it is unstable while working,gaming, etc.

All in all, I don't have any wish to tweak secondary timing, or even primary - my only goal is to make this kit run 200MHz higher than it was binned. 3000MHz B-die can't get extra 200mhz with the same timings, no matter what voltages I apply? Ridiculous....

Plus, I've tested both RAM and system all over, hundreds of times with memtest, aida and prime - at stock and with XMP applied. It is always rock solid, until I start pushing this damn ram kit 1mhz furher


----------



## UltraMega

Hello, I recently bought some tridentZ 4133mhz dual channel ram. I have an 8700K and an ASrock z370 Extreme4. 

I noticed that when I got this new ram my Intel Burn Test score actually went down a bit from about 130gflops to 120gflops. I tried AIDA64 and found that my memory write speed is quite a bit lower than what I think would be normal for this ram. AIDA64 shows my memory read/write speeds as ~ 53000mb/s and 39700mb/s. According to guru3ds 8700K review, I am getting a lower than average speed with my write speed here vs my older 3200mhz ram. I feel like there is an issue here somewhere. Please help. 


I made this thread to go over my struggles with ram so far: https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...e-ddr4-ram-experts-needed-4.html#post27628734


----------



## Lownage

UltraMega said:


> Hello, I recently bought some tridentZ 4133mhz dual channel ram. I have an 8700K and an ASrock z370 Extreme4.
> 
> I noticed that when I got this new ram my Intel Burn Test score actually went down a bit from about 130gflops to 120gflops. I tried AIDA64 and found that my memory write speed is quite a bit lower than what I think would be normal for this ram. AIDA64 shows my memory read/write speeds as ~ 53000mb/s and 39700mb/s. According to guru3ds 8700K review, I am getting a lower than average speed with my write speed here vs my older 3200mhz ram. I feel like there is an issue here somewhere. Please help.
> 
> 
> I made this thread to go over my struggles with ram so far: https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...e-ddr4-ram-experts-needed-4.html#post27628734


Post a screen of Asrock Timing Configurator. We need to see your timings.


----------



## UltraMega

I cannot find asrock timing configurator online anywhere. Anyone know a legit download link?


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> So,
> 1. Already 've done it hundred of times, trying once more, but I think its really unnecessary
> 2. I don't have Linux, I've never worked with it and not planning to; HCI doesn't work on my system (It just ignores everything, writes "could not allocate 4gb") ; And I don't really sure what ramtest is the correct one, form what google gives me out.
> I use Prime and AIDA for all OC testing needs.
> 
> 3. Any RAM overclock is unstable whatever CPU OC I apply - it could be 5GHz overclock, it could be cold 4.8, it could be stock settings - everything the same, all over.
> 
> 4. XMP keeps bus at default 100MHz clock - don't want to touch it whatsoever. Increasing vSA/vIO/vRAM doesn't help much to me in stabilizing RAM overclock.
> 
> 5. In any RAM OC case, the PC boots just fine, even if it is cold boot, no delays. But it is unstable while working,gaming, etc.
> 
> All in all, I don't have any wish to tweak secondary timing, or even primary - my only goal is to make this kit run 200MHz higher than it was binned. 3000MHz B-die can't get extra 200mhz with the same timings, no matter what voltages I apply? Ridiculous....
> 
> Plus, I've tested both RAM and system all over, hundreds of times with memtest, aida and prime - at stock and with XMP applied. It is always rock solid, until I start pushing this damn ram kit 1mhz furher


All of this information is in the first post of this thread or a search.

You must not of read the instruction for HCI. Take ~90% of your installed RAM (32*0.9=28.8) then divide by the number of threads in your CPU (28.8/12=2.4). Then open up 12 instances of HCI and put 2400 in each and press start on each instance. Make sure you check your page file, if you see it increasing then reduce each instance of HCI to 2300, 2200, etc until its no longer including your page file. Test until you have an error or you reach 1000%. It will take like 10 hours or so.

RamTest: https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/

BASH setup. https://www.windowscentral.com/how-install-bash-shell-command-line-windows-10 or from the Microsoft Store https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
Once installed open the shell and type the following commands:
1. sudo apt-get update
2. sudo apt-get upgrade
3. sudo apt-get install stressapptest

Once all that is installed type in: stressapptest -W -M 28800 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
This will test your system for 1 hour. It will let you know if you have any memory specific settings / voltages issues.

If you pass Stressapptest but fail in HCI or RamTest with cache testing then you have a CPU OC issue, most likely with your cache.

Prime is ok for brute force testing your CPU OC, but thats about it. AIDA stress tests has never found a single error for me, so I stopped using it. I use a combination of XTU, RealBench, and x265, but this is a memory thread.


----------



## UltraMega

Lownage said:


> Post a screen of Asrock Timing Configurator. We need to see your timings.


I have been unable to find a current version of that program anywhere. This is from my bios.


----------



## Lownage

You can download it here.
http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/X299 OC Formula/index.asp#Download

Your timings are all pretty off. Just look at some other posts and copy their timings/ try them. Not all at the same time. One by one.

Your memory should be able to run at 17-17-17-32 @ 4000MHz. 

Also try lowering the following:

tWR
tRFC

tRRD_L 
tRRD_S 

tWTR_L (tWRRD_SG)
tWTR_S (tWRRD_DG)

What are your voltages for DRAM, SA and IO? 
Don´t forget to test stability via RAMtest, GSAT or HCI.


----------



## Robostyle

JMTH said:


> All of this information is in the first post of this thread or a search.
> 
> You must not of read the instruction for HCI. Take ~90% of your installed RAM (32*0.9=28.8) then divide by the number of threads in your CPU (28.8/12=2.4). Then open up 12 instances of HCI and put 2400 in each and press start on each instance. Make sure you check your page file, if you see it increasing then reduce each instance of HCI to 2300, 2200, etc until its no longer including your page file. Test until you have an error or you reach 1000%. It will take like 10 hours or so.
> 
> RamTest: https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/
> 
> BASH setup. https://www.windowscentral.com/how-install-bash-shell-command-line-windows-10 or from the Microsoft Store https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
> Once installed open the shell and type the following commands:
> 1. sudo apt-get update
> 2. sudo apt-get upgrade
> 3. sudo apt-get install stressapptest
> 
> Once all that is installed type in: stressapptest -W -M 28800 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
> This will test your system for 1 hour. It will let you know if you have any memory specific settings / voltages issues.
> 
> If you pass Stressapptest but fail in HCI or RamTest with cache testing then you have a CPU OC issue, most likely with your cache.
> 
> Prime is ok for brute force testing your CPU OC, but thats about it. AIDA stress tests has never found a single error for me, so I stopped using it. I use a combination of XTU, RealBench, and x265, but this is a memory thread.


Here's an attachement - 3200Mhz applied, though, the settings are one I have with 3000MHz raam kit - the only difference is targetmem frequency,vRAM is at 1.375V and vSA and vIO at auto. 

I've ran some of the test locals use, HCI, stressapptest (though I didn't bought karhutest) - every single test reported multiple RAM errors. And it's only when I rise memfreq to 3200MHz from 3000.


----------



## CJMitsuki

Robostyle said:


> Here's an attachement - 3200Mhz applied, though, the settings are one I have with 3000MHz raam kit - the only difference is targetmem frequency,vRAM is at 1.375V and vSA and vIO at auto.
> 
> I've ran some of the test locals use, HCI, stressapptest (though I didn't bought karhutest) - every single test reported multiple RAM errors. And it's only when I rise memfreq to 3200MHz from 3000.


Im not too versed on how timings differ on Intel from Ryzen in regards to how they generally behave in certain configurations. I wouldnt think the timing behaviors would be terribly different. If that is the case then those timings look very rough and if there are any similarities in DRAM behavior relating to timings Im surprised it boots with those timings without erratic behavior from the system. If you have no intentions of setting any timings whatsoever and letting XMP be your guide then you could be out of luck. XMP isnt guaranteed to work for every IMC and even if it does the secondaries and tertiaries the bios assigns are complete trash. A well tuned 2933 setup would smoke a garbage 3200 setup. I dont understand why you care about 200mhz more if you are just going to throw the timings in the dumpster. Its likely you wont even see any performance gain at all. To each his own I guess. 

As far as HCI goes, I feel I get the better results from the deluxe bootable version on a USB. It tests 99% of the ram without the OS interfering, which is good to determine if errors are being caused by corruption within the system files or if they are legitimate memory errors. Anytime you boot into the OS with memory errors you can get corruption in the boot files and any system file being accessed for that matter. If the corruptions arent enough to send a BSOD and cause you to have to boot into recovery then they can surely throw false positives during a memory test. I have even seen where reflashing the bios cleared up a stray "memory error". Anyway, hope you get it sorted. Until I get enough knowledge on DRAM behavior with Intel I can only speak from a Ryzen perspective so take that as you will.


----------



## Robostyle

CJMitsuki said:


> Robostyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an attachement - 3200Mhz applied, though, the settings are one I have with 3000MHz raam kit - the only difference is targetmem frequency,vRAM is at 1.375V and vSA and vIO at auto.
> 
> I've ran some of the test locals use, HCI, stressapptest (though I didn't bought karhutest) - every single test reported multiple RAM errors. And it's only when I rise memfreq to 3200MHz from 3000.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not too versed on how timings differ on Intel from Ryzen in regards to how they generally behave in certain configurations. I wouldnt think the timing behaviors would be terribly different. If that is the case then those timings look very rough and if there are any similarities in DRAM behavior relating to timings Im surprised it boots with those timings without erratic behavior from the system. If you have no intentions of setting any timings whatsoever and letting XMP be your guide then you could be out of luck. XMP isnt guaranteed to work for every IMC and even if it does the secondaries and tertiaries the bios assigns are complete trash. A well tuned 2933 setup would smoke a garbage 3200 setup. I dont understand why you care about 200mhz more if you are just going to throw the timings in the dumpster. Its likely you wont even see any performance gain at all. To each his own I guess.
> 
> As far as HCI goes, I feel I get the better results from the deluxe bootable version on a USB. It tests 99% of the ram without the OS interfering, which is good to determine if errors are being caused by corruption within the system files or if they are legitimate memory errors. Anytime you boot into the OS with memory errors you can get corruption in the boot files and any system file being accessed for that matter. If the corruptions arent enough to send a BSOD and cause you to have to boot into recovery then they can surely throw false positives during a memory test. I have even seen where reflashing the bios cleared up a stray "memory error". Anyway, hope you get it sorted. Until I get enough knowledge on DRAM behavior with Intel I can only speak from a Ryzen perspective so take that as you will.
Click to expand...

Well, I dont really get why you said that - because my goal is to squeeze maximum perfomance and responsiveness from my system, without spending half a year tweaking each timing. Moreover, I neither have an experience in oc ddr4, nor I have any figure of how my secondary timings, good or bad, are. Thats why Ive sticked the first tab from memtweak.

So, I tried to use settings, that already have been checked and discussed here. I’ve faced an issue with OC, Ive asked for help. Simple as that. Goal is 3200CL14 for both sticks - 32Gb in total. 


XMP only guides me if my memory stable in overclocked state. Stock and XMP applied tests were only intended to check if RAM itself is broken.

anyway - what do you mean “erratic behaviour”? What do you mean about timings - good, bad, awfull and incompatible with life? 🙂


----------



## CJMitsuki

Robostyle said:


> CJMitsuki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robostyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an attachement - 3200Mhz applied, though, the settings are one I have with 3000MHz raam kit - the only difference is targetmem frequency,vRAM is at 1.375V and vSA and vIO at auto.
> 
> I've ran some of the test locals use, HCI, stressapptest (though I didn't bought karhutest) - every single test reported multiple RAM errors. And it's only when I rise memfreq to 3200MHz from 3000.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not too versed on how timings differ on Intel from Ryzen in regards to how they generally behave in certain configurations. I wouldnt think the timing behaviors would be terribly different. If that is the case then those timings look very rough and if there are any similarities in DRAM behavior relating to timings Im surprised it boots with those timings without erratic behavior from the system. If you have no intentions of setting any timings whatsoever and letting XMP be your guide then you could be out of luck. XMP isnt guaranteed to work for every IMC and even if it does the secondaries and tertiaries the bios assigns are complete trash. A well tuned 2933 setup would smoke a garbage 3200 setup. I dont understand why you care about 200mhz more if you are just going to throw the timings in the dumpster. Its likely you wont even see any performance gain at all. To each his own I guess.
> 
> As far as HCI goes, I feel I get the better results from the deluxe bootable version on a USB. It tests 99% of the ram without the OS interfering, which is good to determine if errors are being caused by corruption within the system files or if they are legitimate memory errors. Anytime you boot into the OS with memory errors you can get corruption in the boot files and any system file being accessed for that matter. If the corruptions arent enough to send a BSOD and cause you to have to boot into recovery then they can surely throw false positives during a memory test. I have even seen where reflashing the bios cleared up a stray "memory error". Anyway, hope you get it sorted. Until I get enough knowledge on DRAM behavior with Intel I can only speak from a Ryzen perspective so take that as you will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I dont really get why you said that - because my goal is to squeeze maximum perfomance and responsiveness from my system, without spending half a year tweaking each timing. Moreover, I neither have an experience in oc ddr4, nor I have any figure of how my secondary timings, good or bad, are. Thats why Ive sticked the first tab from memtweak.
> 
> So, I tried to use settings, that already have been checked and discussed here. I’ve faced an issue with OC, Ive asked for help. Simple as that. Goal is 3200CL14 for both sticks - 32Gb in total.
> 
> 
> XMP only guides me if my memory stable in overclocked state. Stock and XMP applied tests were only intended to check if RAM itself is broken.
Click to expand...

Well, if you want max performance from a low frequency then there’s no choice but to change timings for optimal DRAM use. Give me a bit and I will throw together some timings that could help. Could I have a screenshot of your bios, specifically the part that shows which timings and settings your mobo allows you to change? After that I will put something modest for 3200c14 together which should get you close to stable. As far as voltages go, I will have no clue about those.

If I have extra time I will also give you a much tighter set of timings that may or may not work without more voltage but potentially would give more performance. Also, I may have missed it if you quoted your model of Ram. Is that a Tridentz set or FlareX or another model altogether?


----------



## Robostyle

CJMitsuki said:


> .


MB is maximus x hero, so literally, almost all timings are tweakable. Cant make screenshot for next couple of hours though, not at home plus Ive dissasembled my rig - pump strted making whining noise 😕


----------



## CJMitsuki

Robostyle said:


> CJMitsuki said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> MB is maximus x hero, so literally, almost all timings are tweakable. Cant make screenshot for next couple of hours though, not at home plus Ive dissasembled my rig - pump strted making whining noise 😕
Click to expand...

Ok, I’ve got a C7H so I’ll just do those same timings. There are timings that are so obscure you never see them in any bios so I’ll just do the bulk of the obvious ones. Any others should be ok on auto


----------



## CJMitsuki

Robostyle said:


> MB is maximus x hero, so literally, almost all timings are tweakable. Cant make screenshot for next couple of hours though, not at home plus Ive dissasembled my rig - pump strted making whining noise 😕



Theres what I got for ya. Thats what I would start out with if it were me running a new set of 3200c14 B-die for the first time.


View attachment TIMINGS.txt



Ive also included a small amount of information\rules on some of the timing groups for general knowledge, if you happen to do some tweaking to it yourself.


----------



## Robostyle

CJMitsuki said:


> Theres what I got for ya. Thats what I would start out with if it were me running a new set of 3200c14 B-die for the first time.
> 
> 
> View attachment 219354
> 
> 
> 
> Ive also included a small amount of information\rules on some of the timing groups for general knowledge, if you happen to do some tweaking to it yourself.


Wow, thanks, should come in handy. Definitely took time of yours! Really appreciate that! :cheers:


----------



## CJMitsuki

Robostyle said:


> CJMitsuki said:
> 
> 
> 
> Theres what I got for ya. Thats what I would start out with if it were me running a new set of 3200c14 B-die for the first time.
> 
> 
> View attachment 219354
> 
> 
> 
> Ive also included a small amount of information\rules on some of the timing groups for general knowledge, if you happen to do some tweaking to it yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, thanks, should come in handy. Definitely took time of yours! Really appreciate that! /forum/images/smilies/cheers.gif
Click to expand...

Np, let me know if it works.


----------



## Jpmboy

jpmboy --- [email protected] --- 3466 c14-15-15-35-1T --- 1.4V vdimm, 1.137V SOC , Asrock x470 Taichi Ultimate

My "younger" brother bought the gear before asking... then couldn't get it working for my niece 

2700X
ASrock TU x470
My g.skill 3600c15 kit
R9 290X
all water cooled - now I just need to get the dimwit a case.


----------



## Robostyle

So, here are my timings I've set manually, with all other settings set to default - basically, no other OC than RAM OC. 

1 error was at 9.3%. Tested by HCI memtest

P.S. I've noticed locals use ASRock app mostly - so I've decided to attach the screenshot from it aswell


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> So, here are my timings I've set manually, with all other settings set to default - basically, no other OC than RAM OC.
> 
> 1 error was at 9.3%. Tested by HCI memtest
> 
> P.S. I've noticed locals use ASRock app mostly - so I've decided to attach the screenshot from it aswell


What voltages do you have the RAM, VCCSA, and VCCIO set at?


----------



## Robostyle

JMTH said:


> What voltages do you have the RAM, VCCSA, and VCCIO set at?


vRAM - 1.4V
vSA 1.176V
vIO 1.128V


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> JMTH said:
> 
> 
> 
> What voltages do you have the RAM, VCCSA, and VCCIO set at?
> 
> 
> 
> vRAM - 1.4V
> vSA 1.176V
> vIO 1.128V
Click to expand...

Sorry I'm on my phone so it's a pain to post. 
Try

13
14
13
29
2t

tWR - 9
tRFC - 280 to 320ish, have to test a few
tRDD - 4
tRDD_L - 6
tWTR - 3
tWTR_L - 8
tRTP - 4
tFAW - 16
tCKE - 6
tCWL - 9
tREFI - 28480

With the same voltages you have.


----------



## Robostyle

JMTH said:


> Sorry I'm on my phone so it's a pain to post.
> Try
> 
> 13
> 14
> 13
> 29
> 2t
> 
> tWR - 9
> tRFC - 280 to 320ish, have to test a few
> tRDD - 4
> tRDD_L - 6
> tWTR - 3
> tWTR_L - 8
> tRTP - 4
> tFAW - 16
> tCKE - 6
> tCWL - 9
> tREFI - 28480
> 
> With the same voltages you have.


THats even tighter timings, why would you think its gonna work?

dude, those timings you wrote - pc wont even boot at RAM’s factory 3000, not even talking about 3200..


----------



## Robostyle

Guys, I wanna ask those who really dig this stuff - regarding HCI memtest.

I have free version for now, so of course I'm stricked to test ~2.8Gb per 1 instance, so I have to launch 9-12 windows in order to test the whole kit, but I think you already know that 

The question is - is it enough for pure OC stability testing, to test only with only 1 memtest window opened? 
I'm making this assumption simply because I was testing RAM kit on stock 2133mhz night before - PC BSoDed. Now though, I'm testing kit overclocked to 3600 but only 2.7Gb of the whole kit - 200% stable, no erros. Thus, I though, might it be not the OC issue, but RAM itself? Like, something regular memtest86+ won't catch out? Some faulty bank or even chip?


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> JMTH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I'm on my phone so it's a pain to post.
> Try
> 
> 13
> 14
> 13
> 29
> 2t
> 
> tWR - 9
> tRFC - 280 to 320ish, have to test a few
> tRDD - 4
> tRDD_L - 6
> tWTR - 3
> tWTR_L - 8
> tRTP - 4
> tFAW - 16
> tCKE - 6
> tCWL - 9
> tREFI - 28480
> 
> With the same voltages you have.
> 
> 
> 
> THats even tighter timings, why would you think its gonna work?
> 
> dude, those timings you wrote - pc wont even boot at RAM’s factory 3000, not even talking about 3200..
Click to expand...

Increase RAM voltage to 1.45.


----------



## Robostyle

JMTH said:


> Increase RAM voltage to 1.45.


Nope, it doesn't work. Even with 3000Mhz set (factory bin), it doesn't boot at all. 
I've checked it all over before. The max clock I was able to boot was 3733Mhz, 4000Mhz is just unbearable for this kit, within reasonable timings. 

Here, I've checkd it once again, 4000MHz CL19-19-39, vSA and vIO always around 1.10-1.30V, tried to boot with vRAM at 1.4, 1.45 and 1.5V, I also tried increasing currents - 130% power delivery and still no luck. It doesn't boot at all.

As for thise timings you proposed - checked, vSA vIO both 1.15V, target freq. 3000 MHz - doesnt even post properly with up to 1.6V. 

AC qcode all the time

Upd. Tried single channel with vRAM 1.4v, SA and IO at 1.2, 3200MHz CL14. All the same, ~30% of HCI gives me the first error.


----------



## THEBOSS619

Hello everyone.. I know this thread is purely made for DDR4 RAM Desktops only..  but I have got a Laptop with ability to only adjust ram timing so.. I needed to tight it them as this is my only option  no voltage adjustment for DRAM but I have voltage control for SA & IO voltages  

First of all I have DDR4 2133Mhz (currently is 2195Mhz due to BCLK OC) 16GB ram (2x8GB) on Dual channel mode.. It was on those timing 15-15-15-36 so.. I started to lowering those timing and I managed to get it stable at 12-13-13-29  anything lower than that and it will become unstable so.. Primary timing is finished to me unless you have something to let me try .. then let me know! 

I then switched looking for secondary timing and tertiary timing or by other means (Sub timings) .. I only lowered tRFC from 376 to 300 and increased tREF from 8300 to 10300 and all looks stable  but I'm afraid to tweak it more which will lead to memory corruption so.. do you have any kind of limit I must not surpass it? I mean those 2 timing [tRFC & TREF) have no kind of range.. I researched alot & but couldn't find anything to convince me to go lower tRFC or go Higher tREF.

and last thing.. what about the other timers from the image below? is there anything I could do about it? to make more tight? Just needed to guide  is there anything more I could?

I benefited alot with my current tweaking on ram timing related to read , write, memory latency  but I'm looking if there is more to squeeze more performance out of this


----------



## JoeRambo

Robostyle said:


> I've checked it all over before. The max clock I was able to boot was 3733Mhz, 4000Mhz is just unbearable for this kit, within reasonable timings.



I feel that You are wasting time. 2x16GB is never going to clock as well as 2x8GB, simply because memory controller has to work much harder due to it being a dual rank memory. There are some rare cases with motherboards that have 2 DIMM slots, that can clock them higher.


So in the end You need to choose a sweet spot for your memory, be it 3000CL12 or 3200CL14 whatever your memory is capable off and then proceed to finetune secondaries and tertiaries. Decent 3200CL13 can beat 3733CL18 CR2 in real world stuff and will probably require 0.2V less SA/IO voltage.








THEBOSS619 said:


> I then switched looking for secondary timing and tertiary timing or by other means (Sub timings) .. I only lowered tRFC from 376 to 300 and increased tREF from 8300 to 10300 and all looks stable  but I'm afraid to tweak it more which will lead to memory corruption so.. do you have any kind of limit I must not surpass it? I mean those 2 timing [tRFC & TREF) have no kind of range.. I researched alot & but couldn't find anything to convince me to go lower tRFC or go Higher tREF.



Maximum for tREF is 65535 and tRFC can go as low as 220. And their impact is easy to imagine - very simplified - every tREF period RAM will for tRFC amount of cycles refresh DRAM cells and won't be accessible. Details are in DDR4 specification.


----------



## Robostyle

JoeRambo said:


> I feel that You are wasting time. 2x16GB is never going to clock as well as 2x8GB, simply because memory controller has to work much harder due to it being a dual rank memory. There are some rare cases with motherboards that have 2 DIMM slots, that can clock them higher.
> 
> 
> So in the end You need to choose a sweet spot for your memory, be it 3000CL12 or 3200CL14 whatever your memory is capable off and then proceed to finetune secondaries and tertiaries. Decent 3200CL13 can beat 3733CL18 CR2 in real world stuff and will probably require 0.2V less SA/IO voltage.



That's why I think I should tweak and loose some kind of secondary or even third timing(s), without perfomance drop - but I don't really know which ones. Plus, I've seen people successfully pushing even dualrank 32gb kit up to ~500MHz above of the stock speed effortlessly, both with sweet timings and astonishing perfomance. 

Anyway, I still have a hope to push my ram a little more, despite that I'm being convinced more and more, that 3000CL14 b-die is a dud b-die - that's why it isn't 3200CL14.


----------



## THEBOSS619

JoeRambo said:


> Maximum for tREF is 65535 and tRFC can go as low as 220. And their impact is easy to imagine - very simplified - every tREF period RAM will for tRFC amount of cycles refresh DRAM cells and won't be accessible. Details are in DDR4 specification.


Thank you.. I already know all about this.. even BIOS tells me maximum is 65535 but don't expect me that I would directly go to tREF maximum 65535 after reading this.... well... anyway.. regarding to tRFC I think I found that less than 300 my BIOS would simply reset to default values which is 376  so.. I have kept it on 300 since it doesn't reset  I think BIOS know more about what is happening to the RAM so.. I won't argue on that 

But.. tREF... can anybody recommend what is safe value that I shouldn't go over it? other than 65535? I mean like for example.. if I got over 20000 tREF value I may face some kind instabilities (which means memory or data corruption) ..etc.. 

Anyway.. thanks for taking your time to reply to me


----------



## JoeRambo

Robostyle said:


> Plus, I've seen people successfully pushing even dualrank 32gb kit up to ~500MHz above of the stock speed effortlessly, both with sweet timings and astonishing perfomance.
> 
> Anyway, I still have a hope to push my ram a little more, despite that I'm being convinced more and more, that 3000CL14 b-die is a dud b-die - that's why it isn't 3200CL14.



Most likely it was done on motherboards with 2 dimms, not 4. My dual rank kit won't even post above 3600, and 3600 requires ridiculous voltages and CR2. I prefer to run 1.0V SA/IO and more sensible primaries.













Those are my timings, and kinda fun that it is within 99.3% of theoretical read maximum for DDR4 3200. But of course those 2x8GB kits destroy this setup both in bandwith and latency.


----------



## Robostyle

Well, another problem that I still dont know how to figure if it is vRAM or vSA causing an issue- neither I found anything, nor someone here adviced something. So, it makes 3 times harder to define which voltage is insufficient.


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ you need to range the voltage for each. VSA can have an "inverted-U" type response curve, eg, more is not always better.


----------



## Imprezzion

I've been running a cheap-o 2400 C15 HyperX Beast kit at 2700 11-14-14 @1.35v for 2 years now, stable as a rock. Point is, frequency wise, that kit cannot go any faster without becoming wildly unstable even at 14 - 15 timings and a load of voltage.

I would like to "upgrade" to a RGB kit and a higher frequency. 

Any tips on what to get? Like, G Skill Trident Z RGB 3200 CL16 or Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 CL18?

Which of the 2 above kits would generally run tighter timings?

I'm using a 6700K @ 4.6 1.408v vcore, 4.2Ghz ring @ 1.050 SA in a MSI Z170 Gaming M7.


----------



## UltraMega

Lownage said:


> You can download it here.
> http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/X299 OC Formula/index.asp#Download
> 
> Your timings are all pretty off. Just look at some other posts and copy their timings/ try them. Not all at the same time. One by one.
> 
> Your memory should be able to run at 17-17-17-32 @ 4000MHz.
> 
> Also try lowering the following:
> 
> tWR
> tRFC
> 
> tRRD_L
> tRRD_S
> 
> tWTR_L (tWRRD_SG)
> tWTR_S (tWRRD_DG)
> 
> What are your voltages for DRAM, SA and IO?
> Don´t forget to test stability via RAMtest, GSAT or HCI.


Using these settings right now. This timing configurator program just shows the current timings right? 

Still seems off, most things run normally but in Ghost Recon Wildlands I get a lot of stutter no matter what settings I use. Reading about it online leads me to believe it may be related to my ram.

What should I set the things you mentioned to?


----------



## Robostyle

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ you need to range the voltage for each. VSA can have an "inverted-U" type response curve, eg, more is not always better.


Yeah, I know, but how do I range the voltage for SA and IO separately from vRAM? I mean, is there some way I could monitor or get a clue that “its definitely vSA or vIO issue, and not vRAM”?


----------



## askan7

Robostyle said:


> Yeah, I know, but how do I range the voltage for SA and IO separately from vRAM? I mean, is there some way I could monitor or get a clue that “its definitely vSA or vIO issue, and not vRAM”?


Aida64 cache test throws errors in less than 5min if your vccio/sa is lower than it should be. At least this has been my experience, for example i can run 4000mhz cl16 1.15vccio/sa on ramtest hci for a LONG time without any errors but on aida64 cache test i errors in less than 5min. 1.18v no errors for 2hours.


----------



## kaptanedi

plisskin said:


> Hi @*Jpmboy* can you help me with my ram sticks?
> 
> 
> I have an strange situation, look at the image.. you can see the memory write and copy are lower than read.. i think this is because it's a no stable oc.. but I don't know what timings need to be changed..
> 
> 
> please if you see a worng timing tell me, I'm a noob in ram oc. thanks!


http://www.gskill.us/forum/forum/ge...-and-1156/159767-f4-4000c18d-16gtzr-need-help


----------



## kaptanedi

I have a problem. If I want to go up to 4400mhz, I0-L CHA d0 and chb do automatically to 13-14. down Returns a qcode error of 55 or 49. but it takes 6-7 at 4000mhz. this lowers performance. cannot be taken down when the values are above 4000mhz.


----------



## Robostyle

Well, I dunno, is it decent result for pure workstation/gaming PC? I'm not really a bench guy, but if something would give me at least 3-5% more IRL perfomance, I'll definitely tweak it. 
I didn't overwhelmed 50GB/s mark, though maybe AIDA can't utilize all the advantages of dual rank memory? So, IRL, 3000CL14 DR will be faster than 3200CL14 SR? 
Latency is below 50-60ms mark though, which is nice.


----------



## Jpmboy

kaptanedi said:


> I have a problem. If I want to go up to 4400mhz, I0-L CHA d0 and chb do automatically to 13-14. down Returns a qcode error of 55 or 49. but it takes 6-7 at 4000mhz. this lowers performance. cannot be taken down when the values are above 4000mhz.


4400c16 has gotta be something like 1.55-1.6V to be anywhere near training by the CPU properly.. assuming the sticks are eeven capable of the timing/frequency combination. my 4400c19 B-die kit runs 4400c18 at 1.45V as I posted earlier. c17 and c16 wil post but not pass GSAT at acceptable 24/7 voltages. That said, this far beyond the board's and CPU's spec, you really can;t rely upon automatic rtls and iols for more than a starting point - and round trip latency is measured during post.


----------



## UltraMega

UltraMega said:


> Using these settings right now. This timing configurator program just shows the current timings right?
> 
> Still seems off, most things run normally but in Ghost Recon Wildlands I get a lot of stutter no matter what settings I use. Reading about it online leads me to believe it may be related to my ram.
> 
> What should I set the things you mentioned to?


I was my power supply. Swapping that out fixed all my problems.


----------



## Robostyle

Ok, so I figured something out. 

Thing is - my kit is unstable even with factory XMP settings. And the fact that I thought it is unstable at 3200CL14 - not the overclock issue, but kit's overall issue. 
As were adviced above, for vSA and vIO testing I used AIDA cache testing - thus I figured my CPU requires 1.15 for both. in order to sustain stable >3000MHz low latency memory.

I've attached the HCI results, with memory tested on factory XMP 3000MHz CL14. Though, I might've been tinkering some timings - but the situation is, I have almost the same picture with pure XMP, without any changes from my side. 
60% - 1 error, then it's flawlessly does ~1000% HCI without a hitch at all. 

Before, I was testing my kit within completely stock system, default clocks + 2133 memory, overnight. It passed 1000% HCI without errors, though only at 2nd attempt - 1st has failed because of BSoD.

So, what is it? Corrupt memory? Corrupt XMP product? I'm really confused, because it passed memtest86+ when I've bought the kit, it passed 1000% HCI now. But still has an issue with XMP, moreover PC BSoDed when I was trying to test it overnight couple of times - even at stock 2133....


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> Ok, so I figured something out.
> 
> Thing is - my kit is unstable even with factory XMP settings. And the fact that I thought it is unstable at 3200CL14 - not the overclock issue, but kit's overall issue.
> As were adviced above, for vSA and vIO testing I used AIDA cache testing - thus I figured my CPU requires 1.15 for both. in order to sustain stable >3000MHz low latency memory.
> 
> I've attached the HCI results, with memory tested on factory XMP 3000MHz CL14. Though, I might've been tinkering some timings - but the situation is, I have almost the same picture with pure XMP, without any changes from my side.
> 60% - 1 error, then it's flawlessly does ~1000% HCI without a hitch at all.
> 
> Before, I was testing my kit within completely stock system, default clocks + 2133 memory, overnight. It passed 1000% HCI without errors, though only at 2nd attempt - 1st has failed because of BSoD.
> 
> So, what is it? Corrupt memory? Corrupt XMP product? I'm really confused, because it passed memtest86+ when I've bought the kit, it passed 1000% HCI now. But still has an issue with XMP, moreover PC BSoDed when I was trying to test it overnight couple of times - even at stock 2133....


Do you have an OC on your CPU/Cache when you are getting these overnight BSOD's?

Have you been checking your OS to make sure it has not been corrupted during the Mem OC process?

If the answers are Yes/Yes then you probably have a CPU/Cache OC issue.

If the answers are Yes/No then see Yes/Yes above (90%) and No/No below (10%).

If the answers are No/Yes then you probably have a mobo or Mem hardware issue. Have you been checking your memory temperature? If it's >~50C (Jmpboy it's 50C right?) it causes timing issues that may cause errors in stress testing. 

If the answers are No/No then you might have a OS issue. Read this, it has both commands sfc and DISM https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/scan-repair-corrupted-system-files-windows-10

Or perhaps your BIOS is horked someway. Have you reflashed it lately or reset it to defaults? You can try that as well. For my mobo RVE10 I have to set it to defaults or reset it every 5-10 memory changes to flush out all the hidden settings.

Oh and XMP is classified as an OC, so it's not guaranteed to work. The memory is binned and it should work, but that's not always the case.


----------



## Robostyle

JMTH said:


> Do you have an OC on your CPU/Cache when you are getting these overnight BSOD's?
> 
> Have you been checking your OS to make sure it has not been corrupted during the Mem OC process?
> 
> If the answers are Yes/Yes then you probably have a CPU/Cache OC issue.
> 
> If the answers are Yes/No then see Yes/Yes above (90%) and No/No below (10%).
> 
> If the answers are No/Yes then you probably have a mobo or Mem hardware issue. Have you been checking your memory temperature? If it's >~50C (Jmpboy it's 50C right?) it causes timing issues that may cause errors in stress testing.
> 
> If the answers are No/No then you might have a OS issue. Read this, it has both commands sfc and DISM https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/scan-repair-corrupted-system-files-windows-10
> 
> Or perhaps your BIOS is horked someway. Have you reflashed it lately or reset it to defaults? You can try that as well. For my mobo RVE10 I have to set it to defaults or reset it every 5-10 memory changes to flush out all the hidden settings.
> 
> Oh and XMP is classified as an OC, so it's not guaranteed to work. The memory is binned and it should work, but that's not always the case.


No, I've already mentioned that before - PC is completely at stock, I've cleared CMOS before starting all this stuff. 
OS might have been corrupted, when I was trying my CPU OC - had alot of BSoDs......but after I figured all I needed regarding CPU, I've restored factory Win10 with complete erase. So I've got clean Win10, but I didn't reinstalled it completely. 

The highest temp I've ever seen - 51-54C at each stick - but isn't it normal for DRAM? I thought 70-80C might be critical for this stuff.

I've also had some issue with 1602 BIOS - it flashed wrong somehow so I've got 1.52V streaming into my stock CPU on auto - but I quickly resolved the issue, I faced no issues since then, and it was 2 months ago..

As for BSoD - it's just my assumption - I've left PC overnight and found it rebooted without any memtest running the morning after, with 41(63) Kernel event logged at night. 

And, regarding this "repair"......does it reaaally works? I mean, I thought it's completely dud function, like its easier to reinstall it. 
I've ran it now - no issues found.


----------



## JMTH

Robostyle said:


> No, I've already mentioned that before - PC is completely at stock, I've cleared CMOS before starting all this stuff.
> OS might have been corrupted, when I was trying my CPU OC - had alot of BSoDs......but after I figured all I needed regarding CPU, I've restored factory Win10 with complete erase. So I've got clean Win10, but I didn't reinstalled it completely.
> 
> The highest temp I've ever seen - 51-54C at each stick - but isn't it normal for DRAM? I thought 70-80C might be critical for this stuff.
> 
> I've also had some issue with 1602 BIOS - it flashed wrong somehow so I've got 1.52V streaming into my stock CPU on auto - but I quickly resolved the issue, I faced no issues since then, and it was 2 months ago..
> 
> As for BSoD - it's just my assumption - I've left PC overnight and found it rebooted without any memtest running the morning after, with 41(63) Kernel event logged at night.
> 
> And, regarding this "repair"......does it reaaally works? I mean, I thought it's completely dud function, like its easier to reinstall it.
> I've ran it now - no issues found.


I will defer to Jpmboy for the temp question but I seem to remember that >50C is where issues can pop up. You can add a small fan and blow some air on the RAM, any air movement will reduce your temps.

For the repair scan, I have used it and its worked for me. I do also remember somewhere seeing that you need to run the sfc scan like 4-5 times, and even if it doesnt find anything I usually run the DISM 2-3 times. I dont remember what forum recommended that though.

After looking through your other thread, this is your memory kit number correct? f4-3000c14d-32gtzr. If so and your motherboard is the MAXIMUS X HERO than that could be your issue. That kit is not on the ASUS MXH QVL. The only 3000C14 on the list is F4-3000C14Q2-128GVK, what even stranger is that the 128 kit is a 8X16 and you only have 4 DIMM slots, so the ASUS QVL is FUBAR. Looking at the GSKILL site it says that this RAM is on the QVL for the MXH. So who knows lol.

At this point I dont think I have anything software/BIOS wise that can help you. Perhaps someone else that has the same MB as you has some pointers?

Hardware wise:
How tight are you screwing in the mobo mounting screws? Maybe you have them to tight? 
What cooler do you have on the CPU and how tight are you clamping that down?
Maybe try and loosen them all up a bit and go finger tight + 1/4 turn. That should be enough to hold everything in place. 

Are all the standoffs the same height? if even one is a different height then you could have a warp in the board.

Have you tried the other pair of DIMM slots? Or with a single module installed?

Have you tested your PSU? Maybe you are getting bad power?

Have you checked to see if any of the power pins are pushed out? I have had that happen before, the pins were not seated and so I was getting intermittent contact.

Are all of your other Mobo drivers up to date? Chipset, etc...

Thats about all I can think of, wish I could help more but thats all I got.


----------



## Mysterion90

Any tips on how to get the latency down?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

7820x so far on 3800

second one is just a lil bit more tweaked before the hci run ..


----------



## Robostyle

And aagain, second loop, stock&XMP overnight test - this time, I double checked vSA and vIO for sufficient but reasonable voltage, that is 1.15 for my system (suggesting from what AIDA test gives me out), because I had my doubts aabout previous test - that mobo automatically hits 1.38V on both SA and IO when XMP applied, so that would have been an issue.

And again, RAM is completely stable at stock 2133 MHz, but gives 1 error with XMP settings - this time 800% HCI


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Robostyle said:


> And aagain, second loop, stock&XMP overnight test - this time, I double checked vSA and vIO for sufficient but reasonable voltage, that is 1.15 for my system (suggesting from what AIDA test gives me out), because I had my doubts aabout previous test - that mobo automatically hits 1.38V on both SA and IO when XMP applied, so that would have been an issue.
> 
> And again, RAM is completely stable at stock 2133 MHz, but gives 1 error with XMP settings - this time 800% HCI


Try loosing trcd 1 or 2


----------



## Robostyle

So, how can I figure it out, if it is badly binned memory kit or dud CPU? Getting another 100% overclockable kit somewhere? Or can I check that somehow else?


----------



## Robostyle

zGunBLADEz said:


> Try loosing trcd 1 or 2


I'll be better off sending it by RMA than loosing timings - that's what I've payed for - 3000CL14 ram kit, not C15.

P.S. I've completely reinstalled win10, tried testing mem with completely clean and fresh install, without my usual background tasks - so far, 3200CL14 gave me errors within 100% of HCI, no matter what I set as vRAM, vIO and vSA. I will comence overnight test with XMP settings... 
I'm not really sure this HCI memtest gives me legit results - why not memtest86+? It works from DOS - thus, from my point, without OS booted and other stuff being launched, it makes results more "clear", while I'm testing with this OS tools that make me chasing my tail...


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Robostyle said:


> I'll be better off sending it by RMA than loosing timings - that's what I've payed for - 3000CL14 ram kit, not C15.
> 
> P.S. I've completely reinstalled win10, tried testing mem with completely clean and fresh install, without my usual background tasks - so far, 3200CL14 gave me errors within 100% of HCI, no matter what I set as vRAM, vIO and vSA. I will comence overnight test with XMP settings...
> I'm not really sure this HCI memtest gives me legit results - why not memtest86+? It works from DOS - thus, from my point, without OS booted and other stuff being launched, it makes results more "clear", while I'm testing with this OS tools that make me chasing my tail...


hci test cpu and the cache so if hci fails means its not stable... I dont care how many ppl want to refute that.

system its overclocked?


----------



## encrypted11

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ci-memtest-for-determining-stability.2532209/


----------



## Robostyle

zGunBLADEz said:


> hci test cpu and the cache so if hci fails means its not stable... I dont care how many ppl want to refute that.
> 
> system its overclocked?


I've already mentioned that before, please take some time to study 1-2 previous pages.



encrypted11 said:


> https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ci-memtest-for-determining-stability.2532209/


Well, many men, many minds. Only thing we could say, that, doesn't matter what to use for stability testin, until it gives you a decent result.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Robostyle said:


> I've already mentioned that before, please take some time to study 1-2 previous pages.


Im not reading the whole thread looking for answers you should give me if you need help..


----------



## zGunBLADEz

so far @ 3800...cant boot 4000 i can do that on 2/3 channel it will drop a stick trying to push 4000 on all 4s


Im trying to drop my latency to 50s those last 3-5ns are hard XD
mesh is already @ 32x


----------



## Ironclad17

Would really appreciate some troubleshooting advice. So stupid me, I ran my SK Hynix AFR kit at 1.55 V daily and it died in less than a year. I just bought a Samsung B-die kit from TeamGroup 2x8 GB 3733 18-20-20-44 but my craptacular AsRock z170m Pro4S motherboard does not support it obviously. I found it can pass 8 Instances of HCI Memtest 1786 MB 200% but the system is still freezing when I put it under a real load. I double checked the CPU OC and dropping it a step didn't solve the issue. I can guess there's three possibilities with one most likely. 

First HCI Memtest won't tell me anything about the motherboard being able to handle these frequencies and I shot myself in the foot by not buying something from the QVL. I figured since the QVL supported other 2x8 GB kits at around this frequency it would be no problem. 

Second, overvolting the old memory kit damaged the traces from the DIMM slots which seems unlikely at just 1.55 V and I tried switching DIMM slots already to no avail.

Third, I was running HCI Memtest when I lost power yesterday and that damaged the motherboard even though HCI Memtest still isn't giving any errors nor is windows memory diagnostic.

I also considered that the CPUs IMC is degraded but I've been running VCCSA (no option for VCCIO in BIOS) at 1.2 V and the only other option is 1.05 V which I'm told is perfectly fine.

BIOS were updated for memory compatibility already.

UPDATE: I'm dumb, no issues at stock so probably just need more Vcore.


----------



## Robostyle

Suggesting from how you've started this conversation - I doubt I need your help at all.


----------



## encrypted11

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?86946-Is-this-a-good-alternative-for-memory-testing


----------



## Gregix

Hi

So I think finally managed to get my Corsair V LPX 4500C19 to run stable(seems so for now) at what you see below. On this settings it run newer prime95 for like 10mins w/o error, while almost same settings, but VCCIO and VCCSA higher voltage get crashed instantly or in sec run on at least 1 worker. So, no high SA/IO for this modules. Will try to tighten some more, as best results with aida64 latency had below 40ns.
OFC XMP never worked , but was prepared for this.
And, my mobo adds some 0,02 or 0,03V to UEFI settings(SA/IO, Vdram), so this in UEFI looks different...

Time for gaming. One symptom that something was wrong was I was hearing my Char ingame voice only from left ear/side...and once CTD after mission


----------



## Streetdragon

i7 5930k 45/43
32Gig 3600 CL16 @ 3200 13 14 13 14 CL1 1.395V with tighter secondary timings

Could it be, that the Latency is a bit high?


----------



## Robostyle

Please advice, what is the desirable temperature for ddr4 dram modules, in order to sustain stability under stress tests/full ram load?


----------



## KedarWolf

Robostyle said:


> Please advice, what is the desirable temperature for ddr4 dram modules, in order to sustain stability under stress tests/full ram load?


You can have issues going over 40C and definitely will have troubles over 50C.

I bought this to keep my RAM temps down. Now I get around 36C with lower winter ambient temps. 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835236002

Edit: 36C while stress testing my RAM with HCI or RamTest.


----------



## Robostyle

KedarWolf said:


> You can have issues going over 40C and definitely will have troubles over 50C.
> 
> I bought this to keep my RAM temps down. Now I get around 36C with lower winter ambient temps.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835236002
> 
> Edit: 36C while stress testing my RAM with HCI or RamTest.


Does it counts for daily ram usage?


----------



## KedarWolf

Robostyle said:


> Does it counts for daily ram usage?


You want your temps as low as possible while stress testing, but yes, under 40C in daily usage for sure. :h34r-smi

If your temps get too high while stress testing you'll get errors that may or may not reflect what you'll get in lower temperature daily usage.


----------



## Robostyle

KedarWolf said:


> You want your temps as low as possible while stress testing, but yes, under 40C in daily usage for sure. :h34r-smi
> 
> If your temps get too high while stress testing you'll get errors that may or may not reflect what you'll get in lower temperature daily usage.


Well, yeah, thats for sure - unfortunately it's hard for me to make something to cool those sticks down...
And I thought it was dud kit...but now it staable 100% HCI, 3600CL15, with noctua fan blowing just directly on both sticks. Too bad I can't leave it there...


----------



## KedarWolf

Robostyle said:


> Well, yeah, thats for sure - unfortunately it's hard for me to make something to cool those sticks down...
> And I thought it was dud kit...but now it staable 100% HCI, 3600CL15, with noctua fan blowing just directly on both sticks. Too bad I can't leave it there...


Below works really well for me. 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835236002

Edit: With high summer ambient temps I was getting 50-55C on memory. With that memory fan in the link, I was under 40C while stress testing.


----------



## Robostyle

KedarWolf said:


> Below works really well for me.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835236002
> 
> Edit: With high summer ambient temps I was getting 50-55C on memory. With that memory fan in the link, I was under 40C while stress testing.


Nah, it won't fit my kit, trident rgb. And all other space is occupied by rads and fans - only one is rear, and it doesn't do much profit, not to mention the issues of putting rear fan on intake..


----------



## KedarWolf

Robostyle said:


> Nah, it won't fit my kit, trident rgb. And all other space is occupied by rads and fans - only one is rear, and it doesn't do much profit, not to mention the issues of putting rear fan on intake..


It will most certainly fit on Trident RGB. I have Ripjaws 5 which are much bigger than Trident RGB and it fits just fine.


----------



## Robostyle

Yeah, seems You were right. First loop (~850%HCI) with both XMP settings applied and fan blowing towards the sticks was succesfull. It might have been the temperature issue. 

Unfortunately I have my asus monitor RMA again, 5th time already, so I've decided to turn my attention on my laptop. Is there any way I can improve RAM clocks or timings on Skylake-H based laptop?


----------



## Jpmboy

sure... tune from bios like any other laptop. Mr.Fox has posted some impressive laptop results here at OCN.


----------



## Robostyle

Jpmboy said:


> sure... tune from bios like any other laptop. Mr.Fox has posted some impressive laptop results here at OCN.


EVerything I can tune from bios is choosing between 2133 and 2400. So that’s not it. I thought there could be some in-OS tool, with settings implemented after restart, or some sort of it


----------



## mrkambo

Its been a while since i played with my memory, but a new BIOS update and windows reinstall i decided to mess about with my OC, my core and uncore at solid stable, but for memory is RAM Test by Karhu still relevant?


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- i7 8700K @ 5.1/4.9 -- 4266Mhz-C17-17-17-32 2T -- 1.45v -- VCCIO 1.225v - SA 1.25 -- RamTest 1.1.0.0 - 1 Hour










Changed my timings for the AIDA64, need to stress test it still. The preliminary short run was okay. 


Not stable 17-16-16-31 2T but 17-17-17-32 2T is.


----------



## Zemach

8086K 5.0/4.8 vcore bios 1.28 (1.312) LLC6 MB Maximus X apex Ram 4700 CL 18 22 22 42 2t 1.5v vccio 1.3375 sa 1.38375


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ have any performance metrics on 4700?? What VSA and VCCIO?


----------



## Zemach

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ have any performance metrics on 4700?? What VSA and VCCIO?




4900 no stably


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ Nice! A tad high on the vsa for my liking as a 24/7, but Very good bandwidth.


----------



## mouacyk

Nice clocks. As fast as some 8700K's.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ Nice! A tad high on the vsa for my liking as a 24/7, but Very good bandwidth.


That SA voltage is well into the red. Anything 1.35 and over is.


----------



## deegzor

Hello fellow mellow overclockers!

Does anybody still hassle around with good old Haswell-e.. I DO!

First of all main pc specs

i7 5820k
g.skill F4-3000C15Q-16GRK
Asus rampage V extreme usb 3.1
samsung 960 evo nvme ssd
nvidia gtx 1070 
Custom loop watercooling for cpu and gpu (not the best but decent) 2 rad solution.


So to the issue. This mem kit was on qvl list for both motherboard and g.skill site, but it was never able to run the x.m.p profile (15-15-15-35 3000mhz). i even tried this with 2 different 5820k's and other mb which is asus x99-Deluxe usb 3.1

So i settled the next best option atleast for bclk 100 (my cpu doesn't sem to like 125strap) and 2666mhz. Started with basic timings all auto except primaries set to 15-15-15-35 2t. would not boot. so i upped the vccsa 0.02 incresements until it booted then fast stress tests with prime and super pi to get a glimpse of what kind of timings are achievable. Under is a pic of what i have achieved so far as stable (hci memtest 2000%) + aida 64 bench. 

Any suggestions what to improve? i would love to get the ram working at 3200mhz but seems to be it's very rare on 5820k imc. also are my voltages in semi safe range? Like for example cache, some say 1.2v will kill it but in asus oc manual they say 1.35v may be needed for over 4ghz (there is so much opinions about this, but i seem to trust this forum the most) sorry for not searching my answers from the forum but for some reason search function isn't working for me atm.

oh i also forgot these Asus rampage specified tweaks, for example there is one in Dram section to select rampage tweak mode (1,2,3) anybody know if these have any noticeable difference? 

Cheers!

-DeeG


----------



## Zemach

KedarWolf said:


> That SA voltage is well into the red. Anything 1.35 and over is.


I think if VCCSA exceeds 1.35 as a rate, he will not produce ram 4600 4700 for sale Because the Ram 4600 XMP VCCSA VCCIO Voltage Auto 1.440.


----------



## KedarWolf

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4266c17q-32gtzr

4x8GB 4266MHZ, CL17 Z390/Z370 compatibility.

With this new revision of RGB RAM, you think they fixed the shortfalls on earlier RGB kits.

It looks like it's much better than the 4x8GB 4133MHZ CL19 kit.

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4133c19q-32gtzkkf

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12079/gskill-launches-ddr4-4000-32gb-dimm-kits


----------



## mouacyk

That price is insane -- buy 2x for the price of 3x F4-3600C16D-16GTZR, which are perfectly capable of 4266-17-18-18 at 1.45v.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, as is typical for my CPU it seems to have a wall at 3000Mhz. It will run 3000Mhz RAM any day with super low timings and barely any VCCSA / VCCIO but 3200 and above are impossible to even get into the BIOS. Even with XMP 3200 with like, 1.20v vccsa and 1.15v vccio and 1.40vdimm it won't even pass POST. 

Using Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200CL16 2x8GB.

At least i got it stable as a rock at 3000Mhz CL12-15-15-35-400 1.408v vdimm 1.10v vccio 1.05v vccsa. Yes, this cheap stuff runs CL12 stable on 3000 so it seems. 

340% HCI on 12GB allocated (8x1500mb) and easily passed with no errors.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Well, as is typical for my CPU it seems to have a wall at 3000Mhz. It will run 3000Mhz RAM any day with super low timings and barely any VCCSA / VCCIO but 3200 and above are impossible to even get into the BIOS. Even with XMP 3200 with like, 1.20v vccsa and 1.15v vccio and 1.40vdimm it won't even pass POST.
> 
> Using Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200CL16 2x8GB.
> 
> At least i got it stable as a rock at 3000Mhz CL12-15-15-35-400 1.408v vdimm 1.10v vccio 1.05v vccsa. Yes, this cheap stuff runs CL12 stable on 3000 so it seems.
> 
> 340% HCI on 12GB allocated (8x1500mb) and easily passed with no errors.


What MB is that?


----------



## Imprezzion

Jpmboy said:


> Imprezzion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, as is typical for my CPU it seems to have a wall at 3000Mhz. It will run 3000Mhz RAM any day with super low timings and barely any VCCSA / VCCIO but 3200 and above are impossible to even get into the BIOS. Even with XMP 3200 with like, 1.20v vccsa and 1.15v vccio and 1.40vdimm it won't even pass POST.
> 
> Using Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200CL16 2x8GB.
> 
> At least i got it stable as a rock at 3000Mhz CL12-15-15-35-400 1.408v vdimm 1.10v vccio 1.05v vccsa. Yes, this cheap stuff runs CL12 stable on 3000 so it seems.
> 
> 340% HCI on 12GB allocated (8x1500mb) and easily passed with no errors.
> 
> 
> 
> What MB is that?
Click to expand...

MSI Z170 Gaming M7 with a slightly older non spectre fix BIOS.
I have a Maxi VIII Hero as well but this board is way better so far.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> MSI Z170 Gaming M7 with a slightly older non spectre fix BIOS.
> I have a Maxi VIII Hero as well but this board is way better so far.


 I had the MSI 370 carbon - with the identical cpu and ram, it could not hit the same frequencies as this Apex...
That said, have you checked each stick separately to see if one is limiting the pair?


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
See any issues with these timings 
No issues I'm aware of had a bit of an issue with 4.8 but that is mostly thermal issues same issues with default frequency and no cache added


----------



## Robostyle

So, it there any option I can do memory tweak on skylake-h platform, without BIOS "hard reset"?


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> See any issues with these timings
> No issues I'm aware of had a bit of an issue with 4.8 but that is mostly thermal issues same issues with default frequency and no cache added


 you can probably lower the tRFC quite a bit and double the tREFI without doing anything else.
What's the SPD tab on cpuz ?


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Thanks


yeah - i believe those are E-die? can be overclocked, but margin limited. If you are good with the freq you posted, tRFC and tREFI are freebies for performance.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> yeah - i believe those are E-die? can be overclocked, but margin limited. If you are good with the freq you posted, tRFC and tREFI are freebies for performance.


Hi,
Hynix :/

Any guestament numbers for each ?
Double is closer than quite a bit


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Hynix :/
> 
> Any guestament numbers for each ?
> Double is closer than quite a bit


374 and 25000 -ish. Literally double the default tREFI. Most any DDR4 can hold it's charge for 2x default... even hyjinx.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> 374 and 25000 -ish. Literally double the default tREFI. Most any DDR4 can hold it's charge for 2x default... even hyjinx.


:thumb:
Hi,
I'm about to save a bios profile and I'll do the adjustments there after thanks a lot for the help


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> 374 and 25000 -ish. Literally double the default tREFI. Most any DDR4 can hold it's charge for 2x default... even hyjinx.


Hi,
374 & 24960 did not work no post


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 374 & 24960 did not work no post


it's not likely tREFI, increase tRFC until it can pass post-training, then try GSAT or something.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Tried 389 & 390 didn't get code 11 memory detected like I did on 374 but still didn't post.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> it's not likely tREFI, increase tRFC until it can pass post-training, then try GSAT or something.


Hi,
450 & 24960 will post and about as low as it can be set.


----------



## Jpmboy

measure any performance difference? 'cause no one can "feel" differences in ram settings unless they are fouled.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Looking okay new post got a scripting stopped working error after though lol 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/21-...-spy-benchmark-top-30-a-157.html#post27667406


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> measure any performance difference? 'cause no one can "feel" differences in ram settings unless they are fouled.


Hi,
Stop code memory management lol :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

oh daaum. best stand pat.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> oh daaum. best stand pat.


Hi,
Win-10 horse crap I imagine although a first MS installed something and borked any positive results or adjustments raising it a little to 454/...

I might have too many settings changed in digi and tweakers paradise plus 100.1 blck.
I use a different profile and do setting over from default see how it goes


----------



## Imprezzion

Well this is weird..

I bought a 7700K to replace my terrible 6700K. 
Same board (MSI Z170 Gaming M7) same BIOS. I had the H bios loaded, now using J.

My 6700K ran 3000 CL12-15-15-35-400-1T stable with 340% HCI full pass and a few hours of prime95 27.9 AVX Blend 12000MB RAM. 
It couldn't post at anything over 3000 however. Not even XMP3200 CL16.

The 7700K will boot fine on XMP3200 CL16 but nothing, and I mean nothing, will make this corsair vengeance anywhere near stable. The exact same settings as on my 6700K throws a rounding error in seconds in prime and memory copy errors in HCI.

XMP3200 unstable in seconds.
3000 CL12 runs sort of OK but still lots of rounding errors.
3000 14-16-16 no improvement.
2666 15-15-15 runs fine. 

I threw 1.42v on the vdimm, 1.20v io 1.15v sa no effect at all. No improvement whatsoever.

My HyperX Fury 2666C15 however runs fine at 2700 11-14-14-30-300-1T with 1.35v vdimm, 1.10v io 1.05v sa and CPU at 5.0Ghz 1.352v.

Also tested a few minutes on 3000 14-16-16-36-400-1T 1.42v works fine. No rounding errors in Prime. RAM however isn't 100% stable on 3000 and doesn't like the voltage.

Is this CPU / Board combo somehow not liking the Corsairs or?


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> oh daaum. best stand pat.


Hi,
Been using 454 and 12960 for a few hours seems fine no errors or bsod yet

You once or probably a lot more lol said to use bash in win-10 
Got any details on how to use it instead of linux and gsat...


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Been using 454 and 12960 for a few hours seems fine no errors or bsod yet
> 
> You once or probably a lot more lol said to use bash in win-10
> Got any details on how to use it instead of linux and gsat...


Yeah, it's very easy. you just enable the linux subsystem in windows 10 and DL unbuntu from the store (now, in the past didn't need the "Store" ). Just google windows bash and use the instructions from 10 forums. Once you get the subsystem working post back...


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, it's very easy. you just enable the linux subsystem in windows 10 and DL unbuntu from the store (now, in the past didn't need the "Store" ). Just google windows bash and use the instructions from 10 forums. Once you get the subsystem working post back...


HI,
Can't use the store I'm on a local account but also using build 1709 would that make it easier ?


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> HI,
> Can't use the store I'm on a local account but also using build 1709 would that make it easier ?


sure. works on 1709 no problem. enable the Linux subsystem to get started. afaik, you do not need ot log in to the store to dl the unbuntu runtime. Good to keepo 1709... i have on one machine... I think it is a cleaner distro compared to 1803, 1806 and 1809.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> 374 and 25000 -ish. Literally double the default tREFI. Most any DDR4 can hold it's charge for 2x default... even hyjinx.


Hi,
Used 374 and 24960 on x99 and it's 3200C14 yes b dies and it booted lol yes the entries beside different timings for c14 were the same as the c16 kits were 
I haven't done much at all on it's settings just happy it ran at all on 3200 default timings


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Used 374 and 24960 on x99 and it's 3200C14 yes b dies and it booted lol yes the entries beside different timings for c14 were the same as the c16 kits were
> I haven't done much at all on it's settings just happy it ran at all on 3200 default timings


honestly... i'd pull the 3200c14 kit from the x99 and use them on the x299. They will probably run 4000c16 with 1.4 to 1.45V which is fine for x299 and b-die sticks. run the 3200c16s on x99 where the platform is more limited to that frequency range. just my :2cents:


----------



## zGunBLADEz

WiP


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> honestly... i'd pull the 3200c14 kit from the x99 and use them on the x299. They will probably run 4000c16 with 1.4 to 1.45V which is fine for x299 and b-die sticks. run the 3200c16s on x99 where the platform is more limited to that frequency range. just my :2cents:


Hi,
Believe me I tried x99 I can't even get into bios with 3200C16 in 
I'd have put some crappy corsair dominator 2666C15 that always one stick drops off the planet yep bsod
And yeah I rma'ed the 2666C15 and the same issue with the new happens 
My board hates hynix and corsair Micro memory chips too.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> honestly... i'd pull the 3200c14 kit from the x99 and use them on the x299. They will probably run 4000c16 with 1.4 to 1.45V which is fine for x299 and b-die sticks. run the 3200c16s on x99 where the platform is more limited to that frequency range. just my /forum/images/smilies/2cents.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> Believe me I tried x99 I can't even get into bios with 3200C16 in /forum/images/smilies/puke.gif
> I'd have put some crappy corsair dominator 2666C15 that always one stick drops off the planet yep bsod
> And yeah I rma'ed the 2666C15 and the same issue with the new happens
> My board hates hynix and corsair Micro memory chips too.
Click to expand...

In the same mobo with the same 2 kits my 7820x drop 1 stick at 4000 and the 7940x doesnt so its not the ram or the mobo in this case for example


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> In the same mobo with the same 2 kits my 7820x drop 1 stick at 4000 and the 7940x doesnt so its not the ram or the mobo in this case for example


for sure.. the CPu IMC calls most shots in this regard.


----------



## ThrashZone

zGunBLADEz said:


> In the same mobo with the same 2 kits my 7820x drop 1 stick at 4000 and the 7940x doesnt so its not the ram or the mobo in this case for example


Hi,
I was nowhere near 4000 lol 
Stick dropped off at 2666 manual or xmp 
Had some CD 2666C16 worked perfectly for almost 1.5 years and yeah it had samsung chips according to the ver.# dummy me sold it and bought the C15 thinking it had better timings and might be better 
Only thing better was the price nearly half so I see why now = it's total crap.

Same as this 3200C16 it's 100.us cheaper now go figure why.
3200C14 still brings in premium.

So I'll have to sell both C15 and C16 kits and get more or higher frequency trident-z.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> for sure.. the CPu IMC calls most shots in this regard.



whats the lowest latency you manage/seen on x299 im topping out around 52ns theres nothing else i can do to lower it...
so i guess around 50ns its the limit i supposed..


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I was nowhere near 4000 lol
> Stick dropped off at 2666 manual or xmp
> Had some CD 2666C16 worked perfectly for almost 1.5 years and yeah it had samsung chips according to the ver.# dummy me sold it and bought the C15 thinking it had better timings and might be better
> Only thing better was the price nearly half so I see why now = it's total crap.
> 
> Same as this 3200C16 it's 100.us cheaper now go figure why.
> 3200C14 still brings in premium.
> 
> So I'll have to sell both C15 and C16 kits and get more or higher frequency trident-z.



stick around 3600kits thats what i do and play with sillicon lottery in that range


----------



## Streetdragon

zGunBLADEz said:


> stick around 3600kits thats what i do and play with sillicon lottery in that range


Yep. Have on my X99 System Trident-Z RGB 3600 CL16 and they are some happy clockers/timers for me :thumb:


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Streetdragon said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> stick around 3600kits thats what i do and play with sillicon lottery in that range
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Have on my X99 System Trident-Z RGB 3600 CL16 and they are some happy clockers/timers for me /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

Have a few kits even a 32gb one 2x16gb they go up or down very nicely you can compensate myself with tight timings if you cant achieve speed or go high if ur cpu have a nice imc.

Just beware of hynix kits. Now they are in the 3600 range. For what they are and cost they are not that bad. Had one can do [email protected] with stock 1.35v volts "she didnt like nothing else other than 1.35v" on ryzen she posted on 3900+ even, but no way stable , didnt try it on intel before i sold them but she benched at 3866 fine but not stable tho at the timings i wanted. but that was pushing my mobo/cpu too much i seen another guy stable around those in his system so like everything luck of the draw. They were tridentsz rgbs too. Dirt cheap too. Had also a 3200 hynix one that did 3600 this one required 1.4v for that.


----------



## ThrashZone

zGunBLADEz said:


> stick around 3600kits thats what i do and play with sillicon lottery in that range


Hi,
This makes the lottery a little easier to find b dies 
C15-16-17 in 3600 trident-z I didn't notice any 4x8 kits though
https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

Boy I pulled up the 3200C16 crap I got and it's now at 300.us verses the 3200C14 still at 450.us :buttkick:


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> This makes the lottery a little easier to find b dies
> C15-16-17 in 3600 trident-z I didn't notice any 4x8 kits though
> https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/
> 
> Boy I pulled up the 3200C16 crap I got and it's now at 300.us verses the 3200C14 still at 450.us :buttkick:


if you can find them, the 3600c15 kits are the best bin in that freq range and run 4000c16 on x299 as 2 mixed kits no problem. On Z370 the 3600c15 kits do 4266... after that the next best bet are the 4400c19 kits. Heck, I even have a 2x8GB kit running 3466c14s on an asrock x470 taichi with a 2700X of all things - wasn't simple, but works solid. 

these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yes i did see both although at 550.us for the 3600C15 4x8gb kit
All of them said nothing of quad channel x99 or x299 for that matter only stated dual channel z..... I did not look at the qvl's though.


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> This makes the lottery a little easier to find b dies
> C15-16-17 in 3600 trident-z I didn't notice any 4x8 kits though
> https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/
> 
> Boy I pulled up the 3200C16 crap I got and it's now at 300.us verses the 3200C14 still at 450.us :buttkick:


Lottery shows these kits as B-Die?
F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK
F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR
F4-3600C16Q-32GTZSW


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> if you can find them, the 3600c15 kits are the best bin in that freq range and run 4000c16 on x299 as 2 mixed kits no problem. On Z370 the 3600c15 kits do 4266... after that the next best bet are the 4400c19 kits. Heck, I even have a 2x8GB kit running 3466c14s on an asrock x470 taichi with a 2700X of all things - wasn't simple, but works solid.
> 
> these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306





ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yes i did see both although at 550.us for the 3600C15 4x8gb kit
> All of them said nothing of quad channel x99 or x299 for that matter only stated dual channel z..... I did not look at the qvl's though.



I am running this kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK and it's very good.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yep @CptSpig 
I was leaning on the SW kit but must go to the dark side with KK beside way to confusing with 2 kits white already 
I'm not scared of C16 lol it's just hynix and Micro I'm scared of :lachen:

I usually don't go by qvl but dagit I'm doing so this time and that one wins I just can't buy a kit where the qvl does not show any x99 or x299 boards at all !!!


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> for sure.. the CPu IMC calls most shots in this regard. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats the lowest latency you manage/seen on x299 im topping out around 52ns theres nothing else i can do to lower it...
> so i guess around 50ns its the limit i supposed..
Click to expand...

Try this 😉

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=132407&d=1503073527


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> for sure.. the CPu IMC calls most shots in this regard. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats the lowest latency you manage/seen on x299 im topping out around 52ns theres nothing else i can do to lower it...
> so i guess around 50ns its the limit i supposed..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try this 😉
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=132407&d=1503073527
Click to expand...

Hci, ramtest stable? Im seeing 34x cache just from the get go what voltage? xD


----------



## tistou77

With HCI Memtest, how can I just test the ram ?
Finally if there is an error, how do you know if it comes from the ram or cache ?

I saw that too much or too little voltage on the Vcache can make the Cache unstable

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

can't real y compare ram latency with different cache settings... here's with cache at 3000


----------



## zGunBLADEz

tistou77 said:


> With HCI Memtest, how can I just test the ram ?
> Finally if there is an error, how do you know if it comes from the ram or cache ?
> 
> I saw that too much or too little voltage on the Vcache can make the Cache unstable
> 
> Thanks


before, i just used hci only but ramtest makes my life so much easier in that regard...
that way instead of dying waiting for hci to fail lol i do a 5000% pass on ramtest before hci i also notice the cache voltage works with ramtest. before running hci bcuz it will fail any cpu stress test if is not stable on hci thats for sure.. Im sticking to ramtest for ram and aida for cache trying to vary the tests. Its quicker.

for cache you can use aida for quick test the cache only. in hci it test both ram&cache which is why i like it, even if takes forever but at least you are not failing a cpu test bcuz of ram/cache after a hci no error run ..



Jpmboy said:


> can't real y compare ram latency with different cache settings... here's with cache at 3000


so around 50ns stable thats not that bad i mean compared in that range gains are very bad...

7820x @ 48x/32x cache @ 52ns
8700k @ 52x/50x/100.5 FSB 3200 CL12 @ 40ns latency

i dont think thats something to die for


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ it's quad vs dual channel (eg bandwidth vs latency). my 8700K and 8086K run in the mid to high 30ns range.



tistou77 said:


> With HCI Memtest, how can I just test the ram ?
> Finally if there is an error, how do you know if it comes from the ram or cache ?
> 
> I saw that too much or too little voltage on the Vcache can make the Cache unstable
> 
> Thanks


if you really want to isolate the ram use GSAT (and it reports errors as cpu-based or ram-based), then something like AID64 cache or p95 FFT 1344 (with 90% of ram committed) gets at the cache pretty well.
RamTest is fine too, but kinda binary . pass or fail, not clear why.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> it's quad vs dual channel. my 8700K and 8086K run in the mid to high 30ns range.



i know but the latency it what matters in a cpu bottleneck, im not seeing what 2-3% tops? which is margin of error at best.. Dropping from 50-40s its showing that much of a gain with 400+mhz in top of it. The cpu isnt pegged at 100% anyway

I mean is sad i have to bench on 1080P just to see some tangible results i play at higher res.


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> i know but the latency it what matters in a cpu bottleneck, im not seeing what 2-3% tops? which is margin of error at best.. Dropping from 50-40s its showing that much of a gain. The cpu isnt pegged at 100% anyway
> 
> I mean is sad i have to bench on 1080P just to see some tangible results i play at higher res.


depends on the work load, for large block calls, bandwidth matters more than latency.
For gaming - latency. That's why 1151 is a better (mainstream) gaming platform than x299 IMO.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> depends on the work load, for large block calls, bandwidth matters more than latency.
> For gaming - latency. That's why 1151 is a better (mainstream) gaming platform than x299 IMO.


well yeah thats for sure. Even if you get 1151 and put some good kit of 3200 sticks you already are in the 50ns territory just from the get go i dont debate that with you.

you cant do that on x299 lol


----------



## tistou77

zGunBLADEz said:


> before, i just used hci only but ramtest makes my life so much easier in that regard...
> that way instead of dying waiting for hci to fail lol i do a 5000% pass on ramtest before hci i also notice the cache voltage works with ramtest. before running hci bcuz it will fail any cpu stress test if is not stable on hci thats for sure.. Im sticking to ramtest for ram and aida for cache trying to vary the tests. Its quicker.
> 
> for cache you can use aida for quick test the cache only. in hci it test both ram&cache which is why i like it, even if takes forever but at least you are not failing a cpu test bcuz of ram/cache after a hci no error run ..





Jpmboy said:


> if you really want to isolate the ram use GSAT (and it reports errors as cpu-based or ram-based), then something like AID64 cache or p95 FFT 1344 (with 90% of ram committed) gets at the cache pretty well.
> RamTest is fine too, but kinda binary . pass or fail, not clear why.


Thanks for your answer

Aida64 is good just to test the cache ?
If it passes Aida64, I can test HCI Memtest (or Ramtest) and if I have an error, it's 90% a ram problem, I guess

Thanks


----------



## deegzor

zGunBLADEz said:


> before, i just used hci only but ramtest makes my life so much easier in that regard...
> that way instead of dying waiting for hci to fail lol i do a 5000% pass on ramtest before hci i also notice the cache voltage works with ramtest. before running hci bcuz it will fail any cpu stress test if is not stable on hci thats for sure.. Im sticking to ramtest for ram and aida for cache trying to vary the tests. Its quicker.
> 
> for cache you can use aida for quick test the cache only. in hci it test both ram&cache which is why i like it, even if takes forever but at least you are not failing a cpu test bcuz of ram/cache after a hci no error run ..
> 
> 
> 
> so around 50ns stable thats not that bad i mean compared in that range gains are very bad...
> 
> 7820x @ 48x/32x cache @ 52ns
> 8700k @ 52x/50x/100.5 FSB 3200 CL12 @ 40ns latency
> 
> i dont think thats something to die for




Hi,

are you referring to this as "ramtest"?


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Thanks for your answer
> 
> Aida64 is good just to test the cache ?
> If it passes Aida64, I can test HCI Memtest (or Ramtest) and if I have an error, it's 90% a ram problem, I guess
> 
> Thanks


 no "test" is absolute. However, AID64 cache test run after passing GSAT is gonna be pretty solid... eg, if it passes GSAT but fails HCi or RT or AID64 cache, it is very likely NOT a ram issue. 


zGunBLADEz said:


> well yeah thats for sure. Even if you get 1151 and put some good kit of 3200 sticks you already are in the 50ns territory just from the get go i dont debate that with you.
> 
> you cant do that on x299 lol


Huh? 11551 spd is not an impressive latency... it has to do with dual vs quad channel ram. Both of my x299 rigs with 7740X cpus (dual channel) have sub 40ns latencies, my x299/7980XE rig can only manage high 40s at best with non 24/7 settings. It is not a x299 thing Bro.


Not quite sure what you are trying to point out with those aid64 snips... of course latency (and bandwidth) are impacted by cache frequency... if fact, nearly every platform has a min cache (north bridge) freq that must be 1/2 the ram speed (or = ram freq). X299 is not one of them (mesh vs classical cache). FYI, even AMD TR (2700x/z470) runs NB at ram freq. x99 runs min cache at ram frequency to eg, 3400 ram must have a min 1700 cache. :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> no "test" is absolute. However, AID64 cache test run after passing GSAT is gonna be pretty solid... eg, if it passes GSAT but fails HCi or RT or AID64 cache, it is very likely NOT a ram issue.
> 
> Huh? 11551 spd is not an impressive latency... it has to do with dual vs quad channel ram. Both of my x299 rigs with 7740X cpus (dual channel) have sub 40ns latencies, my x299/7980XE rig can only manage high 40s at best with non 24/7 settings. It is not a x299 thing Bro.
> 
> 
> Not quite sure what you are trying to point out with those aid64 snips... of course latency (and bandwidth) are impacted by cache frequency... *if fact, nearly every platform has a min cache (north bridge) freq that must be 1/2 the ram speed (or = ram freq). X299 is not one of them (mesh vs classical cache). FYI, even AMD TR (2700x/z470) runs NB at ram freq. x99 runs min cache at ram frequency to eg, 3400 ram must have a min 1700 cache.* :thumb:


Hi,
That's darn interesting all these years I've been using either 2666 or now 3200 I've always used min cache at 24 with either on x99
X299 I do also but often use 27 min :/

I suppose auto min cache would be best


----------



## deegzor

Hi,

Has anyone been able to get latency under 50ms on x99 boards? Here i attached my latest stable oc (hci memtest 2000% enough for me) since no server work. I was just wondering is there anything to do to get those latencies drop? Or has anyone been able to run their 3600mhs rated kits at that speed or anything over 3200?

Rtl values 63 63 63 63 and iol 10 10 10 10, wont boot at 8 8 8 8 or anything else but all 10. Any tips to try for these?

thanks in advance.


----------



## djgar

deegzor said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone been able to get latency under 50ms on x99 boards? Here i attached my latest stable oc (hci memtest 2000% enough for me) since no server work. I was just wondering is there anything to do to get those latencies drop? Or has anyone been able to run their 3600mhs rated kits at that speed or anything over 3200?
> 
> Rtl values 63 63 63 63 and iol 10 10 10 10, wont boot at 8 8 8 8 or anything else but all 10. Any tips to try for these?
> 
> thanks in advance.


My current stable OC


----------



## Jpmboy

deegzor said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone been able to get latency under 50ms on x99 boards? Here i attached my latest stable oc (hci memtest 2000% enough for me) since no server work. I was just wondering is there anything to do to get those latencies drop? Or has anyone been able to run their 3600mhs rated kits at that speed or anything over 3200?
> 
> Rtl values 63 63 63 63 and iol 10 10 10 10, wont boot at 8 8 8 8 or anything else but all 10. Any tips to try for these?
> 
> thanks in advance.


yes. this is with an *8x8GB* 3200c14 kit tho.


----------



## deegzor

djgar said:


> My current stable OC


Thanks! very impressive indeed. Maybe i should upgrade to secondhand 6900k since it seems the imc on 5820k sucks..


----------



## djgar

deegzor said:


> Thanks! very impressive indeed. Maybe i should upgrade to secondhand 6900k since it seems the imc on 5820k sucks..


Actually that was a bit old from January. here's under current Windows 1809:


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> well yeah thats for sure. Even if you get 1151 and put some good kit of 3200 sticks you already are in the 50ns territory just from the get go i dont debate that with you.
> 
> you cant do that on x299 lol
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? 11551 spd is not an impressive latency... it has to do with dual vs quad channel ram. Both of my x299 rigs with 7740X cpus (dual channel) have sub 40ns latencies, my x299/7980XE rig can only manage high 40s at best with non 24/7 settings. It is not a x299 thing Bro.
> 
> 
> Not quite sure what you are trying to point out with those aid64 snips... of course latency (and bandwidth) are impacted by cache frequency... if fact, nearly every platform has a min cache (north bridge) freq that must be 1/2 the ram speed (or = ram freq). X299 is not one of them (mesh vs classical cache). FYI, even AMD TR (2700x/z470) runs NB at ram freq. x99 runs min cache at ram frequency to eg, 3400 ram must have a min 1700 cache. /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

Well, what im trying to point out is that you are not getting into this platform and not use quad chan for example. Of course the extra add latency same as core count adds l3 latency as well nothing comes extra or free, theres pros and cons. Plus i dont think adding any cpu under the 7820x adds to this XD. Intel got flame very bad for this alone in the media.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

deegzor said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> before, i just used hci only but ramtest makes my life so much easier in that regard...
> that way instead of dying waiting for hci to fail lol i do a 5000% pass on ramtest before hci i also notice the cache voltage works with ramtest. before running hci bcuz it will fail any cpu stress test if is not stable on hci thats for sure.. Im sticking to ramtest for ram and aida for cache trying to vary the tests. Its quicker.
> 
> for cache you can use aida for quick test the cache only. in hci it test both ram&cache which is why i like it, even if takes forever but at least you are not failing a cpu test bcuz of ram/cache after a hci no error run ..
> 
> 
> 
> so around 50ns stable thats not that bad i mean compared in that range gains are very bad...
> 
> 7820x @ 48x/32x cache @ 52ns
> 8700k @ 52x/50x/100.5 FSB 3200 CL12 @ 40ns latency
> 
> i dont think thats something to die for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> are you referring to this as "ramtest"?
Click to expand...

 theres an app thats called ramtest which works very nice.

Its a paid app but i think its well worth it

https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...bility-tester-ram-test-2.html#/topics/1644432


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> That's darn interesting all these years I've been using either 2666 or now 3200 I've always used min cache at 24 with either on x99
> X299 I do also but often use 27 min :/
> 
> I suppose auto min cache would be best



yeah, with 3200 ram on x99 min cache can be as low as 1600 (it will idle at this if you use min cache = Auto).


----------



## Streetdragon

djgar said:


> Actually that was a bit old from January. here's under current Windows 1809:


i bet you can go lower to 13 with CAS


----------



## Silent Scone

zGunBLADEz said:


> theres an app thats called ramtest which works very nice.
> 
> Its a paid app but i think its well worth it
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...bility-tester-ram-test-2.html#/topics/1644432


Ramtest is in the OP


----------



## deegzor

djgar said:


> Actually that was a bit old from January. here's under current Windows 1809:


can i ask what are your voltages? vccio cpu, vccsa and rams? even if i bump vccsa 1.25 vccio 1.2 and dram 1.5 i cant get cr1 with these settings let alone any tighter primaries. I guess i could try to lower my rtl manually to from 63 to 59 or something?


----------



## djgar

Streetdragon said:


> i bet you can go lower to 13 with CAS


I tried, not stable enough.



deegzor said:


> can i ask what are your voltages? vccio cpu, vccsa and rams? even if i bump vccsa 1.25 vccio 1.2 and dram 1.5 i cant get cr1 with these settings let alone any tighter primaries. I guess i could try to lower my rtl manually to from 63 to 59 or something?


In my sig.


----------



## bigfootnz

Quick question, memory running 3533-3866 and voltage up to 1.45v does it require fan to be stable or not? As for me to have it stable with Ryzen on [email protected] I need fan blowing onto memory to be stable. If I remove fan even that temps goes only up to 42-43C it is not stable. Is this only Ryzen thing or it is normal for memory with high frequencies. Thanks


----------



## deegzor

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, with 3200 ram on x99 min cache can be as low as 1600 (it will idle at this if you use min cache = Auto).


is there performance gain from lowerin cache? :OO


----------



## Jpmboy

was that a drive-by from Scone?


----------



## askan7

bigfootnz said:


> Quick question, memory running 3533-3866 and voltage up to 1.45v does it require fan to be stable or not? As for me to have it stable with Ryzen on [email protected] I need fan blowing onto memory to be stable. If I remove fan even that temps goes only up to 42-43C it is not stable. Is this only Ryzen thing or it is normal for memory with high frequencies. Thanks


I don't know... I can run 4000c16 1.45v without a fan, stable. Have you tried to loosen trfc and trefi? I'm not an expert, but from my experience, those don't like high temperatures.


----------



## bigfootnz

askan7 said:


> I don't know... I can run 4000c16 1.45v without a fan, stable. Have you tried to loosen trfc and trefi? I'm not an expert, but from my experience, those don't like high temperatures.




At the moment trfc is 332, and in my opinion that is lose. What is trefi?


----------



## Robostyle

Guys, anyone here with 16GB sticks OC experience? I've bumped into a wall with mine... And barely understandable qcodes makes me even more frustrated...


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Robostyle said:


> Guys, anyone here with 16GB sticks OC experience? I've bumped into a wall with mine... And barely understandable qcodes makes me even more frustrated...


 i have a gskill 32gb kit my z370-g from asus Don't even boot it at xmp have to manually enter 3466LL it dont do no more but it will do 4133 on a 16gb kit.


----------



## Robostyle

*zGunBLADEz*
Which kit is it?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Robostyle said:


> *zGunBLADEz*
> Which kit is it?


 cl17 one


----------



## Robostyle

Well, I was able to boot with 3600*CL14* on all sticks + it allows to boot even with trfc around 300. 
The problem is - anything above factory's 3000CL14 isn't kinda stable - and now on I'm testing stuff with fan blowing directly on sticks so it doesn't jumps over 40C under HCI. And I can't make it boot at 4000Mhz, no matter what settings I'm trying. Even 4000CL22 won't boot.

ATM, I've tried stabilizing 3600CL14/15 - unfortunately, even 1.5V wouldn't help so much. Must say, if AIDA cache test really helps to figure out vSA/vIO needed, I'm okay even with 0.95/1.05 being fed for CPU I/O. However, I've doublechecked that thing aswell, applying 1.1V-1.2V too. 

And BTW, I've saw ppl mentioning, that loosing trfc/trefi can help stabilizing clocks under high T Well, I don't mind to loose couple of nanoseconds in order to achieve stability - but does it helps - loosing trfc? Or tightenend timings won't work withing 40-50C at all? 
Besides I have trident rgb sticks, custom loop, glass panel, etc. - so additional fan bracket option is not always applicable.


----------



## dante`afk

anyone have any good settings for the F4-4266C19D-16GTZR kit?


----------



## blodflekk

Posted this is 3 places now trying to find the right thread to get a response lol 

I just finished tweaking my memory, which took a LONG time. No frenquency increase but tightened all the timings, primary, secondary and tertiary. My question is, now that I have it all dialed in, is it recommended to disable DRAM training and some of the memory features like memtest and such? Or best to leave them all on auto?


----------



## Jpmboy

blodflekk said:


> Posted this is 3 places now trying to find the right thread to get a response lol
> 
> I just finished tweaking my memory, which took a LONG time. No frenquency increase but tightened all the timings, primary, secondary and tertiary. My question is, now that I have it all dialed in, is it recommended to disable DRAM training and some of the memory features like memtest and such? Or best to leave them all on auto?


unless you have manually set the rtls and iols, I'd leave training enabled. the tune will drift and training will catch it.


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> I am running this kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK and it's very good.


Hi,
Thanks for the image 
Can't tell what voltage you're using 1.4V ?

When using 1.4v I've noticed even with say 1.38v it shows using way more than what's entered max shows tad over 1.4 already does it do the same for you using 1.4v ?


----------



## Robostyle

Okay, so here it is, my 3000cl14 kit is completely stable within next settings:
CPU is on stock
vRAM 1.35v,
vSA 1.05v (yes, it's on stock) 
vIO 0.95v (this one is on stock too)
Everything else in ASRock configurator.

As I see it, it's the toptier B-die, the most overclockable, binned chips, yes? So, how can I push it to the 4000? 
It's pure overclocker's interest though...


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for the image
> Can't tell what voltage you're using 1.4V ?
> 
> When using 1.4v I've noticed even with say 1.38v it shows using way more than what's entered max shows tad over 1.4 already does it do the same for you using 1.4v ?



Vdimm is 1.41v and it shows 1.41v in bios and SIV64. You can safley go 1.45v with no issues for this OC.


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> Vdimm is 1.41v and it shows 1.41v in bios and SIV64. You can safley go 1.45v with no issues for this OC.


Hi,
Yeah hwinfo usually shows 0.25+- higher than entered for me 1.38=1.4v+
Thanks again 

Think you could see what hwinfo shows your max at using 1.41v ?


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah hwinfo usually shows 0.25+- higher than entered for me 1.38=1.4v+
> Thanks again
> 
> Think you could see what hwinfo shows your max at using 1.41v ?



When I get home tonight I can post a screen shot.


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah hwinfo usually shows 0.25+- higher than entered for me 1.38=1.4v+
> Thanks again
> 
> Think you could see what hwinfo shows your max at using 1.41v ?



Actually I found a screen shot while I was stress testing this machine. I was mastaken my VDIMM is 1.42v with this OC. 



Spoiler


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> Actually I found a screen shot while I was stress testing this machine. I was mastaken my VDIMM is 1.42v with this OC.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Hi,
You got something against hwinfo


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You got something against hwinfo



It does not report the correct information on X299 platform.


----------



## blodflekk

Jpmboy said:


> unless you have manually set the rtls and iols, I'd leave training enabled. the tune will drift and training will catch it.


Thanks for the help. I haven't manually entered rtls and iols. Thats beyond my level of knowledge right now. Is it worth studying and tuning these as well? Took me several weeks to get through all the timings when running 1000% pass of HCI memtest for every change.


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> It does not report the correct information on X299 platform.


Hi,
I tried the SIV64 utility man that thing is weird lol can't seem to figure out how to get it to display anything/ enlarge... 

Yeah I'm not sure sure how accurate hwinfi is on x99 either frankly it's the one that dimm voltage max is more than dialed in.


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I tried the SIV64 utility man that thing is weird lol can't seem to figure out how to get it to display anything/ enlarge...
> 
> Yeah I'm not sure sure how accurate hwinfi is on x99 either frankly it's the one that dimm voltage max is more than dialed in.



It should read the same as what's in the bios.


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> It should read the same as what's in the bios.


Hi,
Okay siv64 is reading goodies now not sure what happened last I looked 
I haven't change memory stuff yet just dialed in timings and voltage manually i believe 1.38v on dimms.


----------



## JoeRambo

Robostyle said:


> As I see it, it's the toptier B-die, the most overclockable, binned chips, yes? So, how can I push it to the 4000?
> It's pure overclocker's interest though...



Simple, by buying one of those Z370 or Z390 boards with *two* DIMM slots. Alternatively sell Your kit and buy one of those 4x8GB kits.

You were told like 10 pages ago, that dual rank memory sticks can't overclock as well on 4-slot motherboards.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

My 32gb kit is rated for 3600 cl17 and i have issues on z370 trying to boot at stock values. He wants to push a 3000 one all way up to 4000. I told him and i got attitude lol


----------



## JoeRambo

zGunBLADEz said:


> My 32gb kit is rated for 3600 cl17 and i have issues on z370 trying to boot at stock values. He wants to push a 3000 one all way up to 4000. I told him and i got attitude lol



Haha yeah, mine is 4000 kit, and i run it 3200. The kit is in QVL of X299 mobos for Kabylake-X dual channel only, so no wonder it is unreasonable to expect it to work in proletarian Z370 mobos.


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Okay siv64 is reading goodies now not sure what happened last I looked
> I haven't change memory stuff yet just dialed in timings and voltage manually i believe 1.38v on dimms.



set the options to enable "LCD" and "minimize on close". then "Tools" > configure> lcd...


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Wow thanks still trying to add stuff to the lcd panel very wild utility


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Wow thanks still trying to add stuff to the lcd panel very wild utility


yeah man, Ray did a fine job. The user interface is a bit complex, but EVERYTHING is in there!


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> yeah man, Ray did a fine job. *The user interface is a bit complex*, but EVERYTHING is in there!


Hi,
lol yeah a hell of a bit complex might have to take a night class


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> lol yeah a hell of a bit complex might have to take a night class


okay.. so, maybe "a bit" is an understatement. But it is all in there.


----------



## Robostyle

JoeRambo said:


> Simple, by buying one of those Z370 or Z390 boards with *two* DIMM slots. Alternatively sell Your kit and buy one of those 4x8GB kits.
> 
> You were told like 10 pages ago, that dual rank memory sticks can't overclock as well on 4-slot motherboards.


Why so - mobo arch, or CF-S poor capabilities?

And about "you've been told" - well, folks do get the results I'm telling about - just check the first page. Yeah, it's Apex - but I thought M10H could use some of it aswell. 
And does this "nuisance" come with tightening timings? Cause I can't make it run something like 3466CL14/3600CL14(15) aswell.


----------



## deegzor

Is this acceptable that one rtl value is 2 points lower than others?


----------



## Jpmboy

deegzor said:


> Is this acceptable that one rtl value is 2 points lower than others?


yeah, as long as it's stable. the round trip measurement happens at each post (training enabled) and is related to the trace layer circuits. My Apex has he same thing...


----------



## deegzor

ty mate!


----------



## sdch

Installing a weird kit for my buddy that he got on ebay. Have no idea what this is. You guys seen this before? 2x8GB kit, no branding.


----------



## Jpmboy

sdch said:


> Installing a weird kit for my buddy that he got on ebay. Have no idea what this is. You guys seen this before? 2x8GB kit, no branding.


 try the ram addicts thread. :thumb:


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

My G. Skill 4400 CL19 2x8gb kit to compare:


----------



## Kimir

sdch said:


> Installing a weird kit for my buddy that he got on ebay. Have no idea what this is. You guys seen this before? 2x8GB kit, no branding.


Look like the new D-die from Samsung to me.
5WC BCT*D*
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12179/samsung-starts-mass-production-of-8-gb-ddr43600-ics


----------



## Jpmboy

Kimir said:


> Look like the new D-die from Samsung to me.
> 5WC BCT*D*
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/12179/samsung-starts-mass-production-of-8-gb-ddr43600-ics


^^ bingo! D-die. thanks Kimir!


----------



## sdch

Kimir said:


> Look like the new D-die from Samsung to me.
> 5WC BCT*D*
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/12179/samsung-starts-mass-production-of-8-gb-ddr43600-ics


Thanks, looks like it's maybe C-die though. Never heard of it or D-die. I didn't run Thaiphoon Burner because I'm an idiot.

https://www.samsung.com/semiconduct...esource/2018/06/DDR4_Product_guide_May.18.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?q=k4a8g085wc+c-die

Sorry for being off-topic. Love this thread.


----------



## Net1Raven

So what is the best quad channel 16gb sticks for 128gb in a x299 board? I don't plan to overclock but i need it to be the fastest possible. Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

ElBerryKM13 said:


> So what is the best quad channel 16gb sticks for 128gb in a x299 board? I don't plan to overclock but i need it to be the fastest possible. Thanks


lol - the most expensive 8x16 kit you can afford. Actually you should first check your board's QVL... and if these are there, go big! Stick with kits that have flat primary timings.


----------



## Net1Raven

I had the same kit on my cart lol. I was wondering if there is something better.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> set the options to enable "LCD" and "minimize on close". then "Tools" > configure> lcd...


He certainly has left no stone unturned


----------



## ThrashZone

sdch said:


> Thanks, looks like it's maybe C-die though. Never heard of it or D-die. I didn't run Thaiphoon Burner because I'm an idiot.
> 
> https://www.samsung.com/semiconduct...esource/2018/06/DDR4_Product_guide_May.18.pdf
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=k4a8g085wc+c-die
> 
> Sorry for being off-topic. Love this thread.


Hi,
Yeah thaiphoon burner doesn't work on x299 platform so it was useless had to use aida64 or what ever it is and it does not show what die it is only samsung...


----------



## Jpmboy

ElBerryKM13 said:


> I had the same kit on my cart lol. I was wondering if there is something better.


did you pull the trigger? it is a very good hi density kit. 


Silent Scone said:


> He certainly has left no stone unturned


exposing some things no one should ever see.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> did you pull the trigger? it is a very good hi density kit.
> *
> exposing some things no one should ever see.*


Hi,


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> did you pull the trigger? it is a very good hi density kit.
> 
> exposing some things no one should ever see.



JP is the man the myth and the seeker of knowledge for all things dealing with automobiles or computers!


----------



## djgar

CptSpig said:


> JP is the man the myth and the seeker of knowledge for all things dealing with automobiles or computers!


Don't forget motorcycles


----------



## mouacyk

CptSpig said:


> JP is the man the myth and the seeker of knowledge for all things dealing with automobiles or computers!


Nah, JP is only good for memories... in here, or else it's OT.


----------



## Jpmboy

Sing ..." thanks for the memories"...


----------



## CptSpig

djgar said:


> Don't forget motorcycles



I don't have a bike any longer so I forgot about his motorcylcle collection.


----------



## larrydavid

sdch said:


> Installing a weird kit for my buddy that he got on ebay. Have no idea what this is. You guys seen this before? 2x8GB kit, no branding.


Can you get the ebay listing URL/seller id? I'd really like to buy a set of this!

Thanks!


----------



## dante`afk

does anyone have the following kit running and has some good settings or any advise for me? It's not running on my Z390 Hero XI (wifi), it train-boots only with 2133mhz, and even then it fails very often.

F4-4266C19D-16GTZR


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

dante`afk said:


> does anyone have the following kit running and has some good settings or any advise for me? It's not running on my Z390 Hero XI (wifi), it train-boots only with 2133mhz, and even then it fails very often.
> 
> F4-4266C19D-16GTZR



Is there a RAJA 4133MHz preset in your memory settings in your bios? Good starting point. Keep your SA and IO @1.25v to start out, should more than enough. When done tweaking, lower them if you could.


----------



## dante`afk

There is not, I tried SA/IO up until 1.35v, no success


----------



## Nizzen

MrTOOSHORT said:


> dante`afk said:
> 
> 
> 
> does anyone have the following kit running and has some good settings or any advise for me? It's not running on my Z390 Hero XI (wifi), it train-boots only with 2133mhz, and even then it fails very often.
> 
> F4-4266C19D-16GTZR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a RAJA 4133MHz preset in your memory settings in your bios? Good starting point. Keep your SA and IO @1.25v to start out, should more than enough. When done tweaking, lower them if you could.
Click to expand...

Raja 4133 does not work at all for me with z390 gene, 9900k and g.skill 4266 c19 mem.

It says 3733 mhz in bios, does not boot at all.

Manual settings, I can benchmark 4400mhz cl 17-17-17 tweaked.

Strange...

Testet stock bios 4××? And the newest.


----------



## Silent Scone

I'll see if I can get this kit for the Formula to test. If there is enough people experiencing issues with this kit, it may need some work on the firmware side. 4266 is still going to be tough on 4 DIMM boards


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

So far memory clocks don't go as high or easy as on a 8700k, L1 L2 cache look awesome compared though:


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- 9900K @5.0/4.6 -- 4100Mhz C17-17-17-32-2T 1.45v -- SA 1.25v -- VCCIO 1.25v -- RamTest 1.1.0.0 1HR - 2098%


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ so guys, does the 9900K feel as "snappy" as the 8700K?


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ so guys, does the 9900K feel as "snappy" as the 8700K?


Hi,
At 5.0 cinebench looks okay wonder how much higher 9900k can go to catch up with some of the 5.2.. 8700k's


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> At 5.0 cinebench looks okay wonder how much higher 9900k can go to catch up with some of the 5.2.. 8700k's


well, cores are cores. but "snappy" in my opinion is a very different thing... maybe more IPC/IPT (instructions per clock/tick) thing. Subjective for sure.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> well, cores are cores. but "snappy" in my opinion is a very different thing... maybe more IPC/IPT (instructions per clock/tick) thing. Subjective for sure.


Hi,
I also wonder if KW's 9900k is from silicon lottery or retail offerings and soldered


----------



## KedarWolf

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I also wonder if KW's 9900k is from silicon lottery or retail offerings and soldered


Retail, bought locally in Toronto from Canada Computers. Not delidding it. I can do 5.1 GHZ at 1.4v but temps while running RealBench are 77-83C which is a bit high for my taste.


----------



## ThrashZone

KedarWolf said:


> Retail, bought locally in Toronto from Canada Computers. Not delidding it. I can do 5.1 GHZ at 1.4v but temps while running RealBench are 77-83C which is a bit high for my taste.


Hi,
Ouch 
Cinebench usually has a the highest temp to run for me anyway :/
What was it at 5.0 ?


----------



## KedarWolf

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Ouch
> Cinebench usually has a the highest temp to run for me anyway :/
> What was it at 5.0 ?


I'm only at 1.315v for 5.0GHZ. I'll run CineBench with HWInfo open when I get home this afternoon.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ so guys, does the 9900K feel as "snappy" as the 8700K?


Memory latency is a tad lower, might help with 'snappiness'.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Package temps wise lol that can get ugly


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ so guys, does the 9900K feel as "snappy" as the 8700K?


 @Jpmboy

Any plans on getting a 9900k?

And where are the threads you're 'volunteered' to start, dammit!!


----------



## ThrashZone

KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> Any plans on getting a 9900k?
> 
> And where are the threads you're 'volunteered' to start, dammit!!


Hi,
That was probably a buying feeler he sent out to you 9900k guys


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> Any plans on getting a 9900k?
> 
> And where are the threads you're 'volunteered' to start, dammit!!


 yes I do... but no stock atm that I can find.


debating whether to go with a new thread or just roll in into this... I have too many threads to track.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> yes I do... but no stock atm that I can find.
> 
> 
> debating whether to go with a new thread or just roll in into this... I have too many threads to track.


Hi,
720 on amazon listing
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005404P9I/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 720 on amazon listing
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005404P9I/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new


lol - yeah, there's always some moron trying to scalp cpus. talk about click bait!


----------



## djgar

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 720 on amazon listing
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005404P9I/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new


$503 Provantage special order ...


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> lol - yeah, there's always some moron trying to scalp cpus. talk about click bait!


Hi,
Compared to a 6950 I saw open box never used for 600.00 it doesn't seem too bad 

Oops 6850


----------



## KedarWolf

Delete


----------



## KedarWolf

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Ouch
> Cinebench usually has a the highest temp to run for me anyway :/
> What was it at 5.0 ?


68C on cores, 70C on package.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Wrong package listing the second is supposed to be more accurate so hwinfo developer says :/
But not bad.


----------



## KedarWolf

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Wrong package listing the second is supposed to be more accurate so hwinfo developer says :/
> But not bad.


There is no other 'Package' temp in HWInfo.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Even my x99 shows two
Second is the annoying one lol


----------



## KedarWolf

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Even my x99 shows two
> Second is the annoying one lol


----------



## Jpmboy

package max is not necessarily = core max. IDK about Hwi sometimes. But they are not the same thing.


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> package max is not necessarily = core max. IDK about Hwi sometimes. But they are not the same thing.


My package max is normally 5-10 higher than core max.


----------



## Jpmboy

yeah - I'm saying the pkgT listed under cores/TJmax is just a dup of core max. The second one is package. I'm finding that SIV64 is more... reliable. At times/platforms I see sensors in HWi that do not exist. Don't get me wrong, HWi is very useful, ya just need to have a healthy skepticism with any of these tools until they prove otherwise.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> yeah - I'm saying the pkgT listed under cores/TJmax is just a dup of core max. The second one is package. I'm finding that SIV64 is more... reliable. At times/platforms I see sensors in HWi that do not exist. Don't get me wrong, HWi is very useful, ya just need to have a healthy skepticism with any of these tools until they prove otherwise.


Hi,
Yeah he said asus is the problem lol 
Might as well go by cpu (peci) it's the same as tjmax's package too :/
I'd love to ignore it I hate the high one dangit 

By the way since I don't seem to have a named mesh or cache on my x299 it seems hwinfo's VTT listing is the same as siv64 shows for vcache max and min match :thumb:


----------



## mouacyk

New B-Die 3600-C15 kit, seems to be performing the same as my 3600-C16.

mouacyk--i8-8700K @5.0/4.7---4266Mhz-C17-18-18-38-2T----1.45v---SA 1.25v---HCI 1000%


----------



## dante`afk

I got some help and managed to get my kit running on the hero XI with the following settings, but can't tweak it further with tighter timings, does anyone have some suggestions where I could work on? 

F4-4266C19D-16GTZR


----------



## lionc

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf -- 9900K @5.0/4.6 -- 4100Mhz C17-17-17-32-2T 1.45v -- SA 1.25v -- VCCIO 1.25v -- RamTest 1.1.0.0 1HR - 2098%


Thanks so much for sharing these screenshots, is there any chance that you could share your BIOS settings as an exported .txt file?
I have the same board (almost — mine is the Hero version) and also 4x8GB G.Skill B-die, your screenshots saved me a lot of set up time but it seems like I'm missing a few of the more detailed tertiary settings that aren't shown because my throughput and latency is worse than yours (~1.5GB/s and 2ns).

Also do you reckon I could just use these settings at 4000 Mhz and drop VccSA/VccIO/Vdimm to something a bit safer or would they have to be readjusted all over again?


----------



## KedarWolf

lionc said:


> Thanks so much for sharing these screenshots, is there any chance that you could share your BIOS settings as an exported .txt file?
> I have the same board (almost — mine is the Hero version) and also 4x8GB G.Skill B-die, your screenshots saved me a lot of set up time but it seems like I'm missing a few of the more detailed tertiary settings that aren't shown because my throughput and latency is worse than yours (~1.5GB/s and 2ns).
> 
> Also do you reckon I could just use these settings at 4000 Mhz and drop VccSA/VccIO/Vdimm to something a bit safer or would they have to be readjusted all over again?


I can run 4000 16-16-16-30 2T at 1.43v RAM Eventual 1.2125 VCCIO and same System Agent if I don't manually set the RTL's. Or at least set them using a 17 IOL Offset.

Below is manually set RTL's though. I had to drop to 4000MHZ on RAM as at 4100MHZ sometimes on boot I was stable, but sometimes after booting I got BSOD's. 



Spoiler


----------



## lionc

KedarWolf said:


> I can run 4000 16-16-16-30 2T at 1.43v RAM Eventual 1.2125 VCCIO and same System Agent if I don't manually set the RTL's. Or at least set them using a 17 IOL Offset.
> 
> Below is manually set RTL's though. I had to drop to 4000MHZ on RAM as at 4100MHZ sometimes on boot I was stable, but sometimes after booting I got BSOD's.


Wow thanks a lot, I'll give that a try. My reasoning behind dropping to 4000 17-17-17-37 2T at 1.4V was so that I could run stable at lower voltages all around at the cost of a bit performance, I'd like to keep this system for a while and would prefer not to degrade the IMC over the years. Those settings you posted there (4000 CL16 at 1.43/1.2125) sound too good to be true, but I'll try them right now! Thanks again!


----------



## KedarWolf

lionc said:


> Wow thanks a lot, I'll give that a try. My reasoning behind dropping to 4000 17-17-17-37 2T at 1.4V was so that I could run stable at lower voltages all around at the cost of a bit performance, I'd like to keep this system for a while and would prefer not to degrade the IMC over the years. Those settings you posted there (4000 CL16 at 1.43/1.2125) sound too good to be true, but I'll try them right now! Thanks again!


----------



## lionc

Very nice, looks like you have a much better IMC, board or RAM than I do! Trying 17-17-17 now.


----------



## KedarWolf

lionc said:


> Very nice, looks like you have a much better IMC, board or RAM than I do! Trying 17-17-17 now.


Leave the RTLs and IOLs on Auto, just change the IOL Offset to 17. Manually setting RTLs can stop your PC from booting.


----------



## xSneak

Hello, I am testing a new kit of ram and wondering what is considered equivalent to 400% coverage in hci memtest when using gsat. 
What does it look like when gsat detects an error?
I tried the ramtest app that was discussed on here, but I found that it needed about as long as hci to detect the same errors, so I don't see the point in it.


----------



## mouacyk

My 4266 profile above can be unstable across different boots, unfortunately. However, this new tuned 4000 profile is much better:

mouacyk--i8-8700K @5.0/4.7---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-36-2T----1.4v---SA 1.15v---HCI 2000%


----------



## KedarWolf

mouacyk said:


> My 4266 profile above can be unstable across different boots, unfortunately. However, this new tuned 4000 profile is much better:
> 
> mouacyk--i8-8700K @5.0/4.7---4000Mhz-C16-17-17-36-2T----1.4v---SA 1.15v---HCI 2000%


I couldn't get 4266 MHZ on my 8700k but could 4200 MHZ fully stable with some BIOS tweaks, brb, going to boot into BIOS to get a screenshot of the most important one to include for high RAM clocks stability. 

CPU Standby and Switching Frequencies. You had Eventual RAM voltage set too, right? Not just one on first BIOS page.

Oh, Power Phases Extreme help too.


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> Hello, I am testing a new kit of ram and wondering what is considered equivalent to 400% coverage in hci memtest when using gsat.
> What does it look like when gsat detects an error?
> I tried the ramtest app that was discussed on here, but I found that it needed about as long as hci to detect the same errors, so I don't see the point in it.


1-2 hours of gsat is sufficient to test the ram.


----------



## mouacyk

KedarWolf said:


> I couldn't get 4266 MHZ on my 8700k but could 4200 MHZ fully stable with some BIOS tweaks, brb, going to boot into BIOS to get a screenshot of the most important one to include for high RAM clocks stability.
> 
> CPU Standby and Switching Frequencies. You had Eventual RAM voltage set too, right? Not just one on first BIOS page.
> 
> Oh, Power Phases Extreme help too.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I do not have an ASUS board this time around, so no Eventual RAM voltage in EVGA BIOS.


----------



## dante`afk

with which dimm entries should I play around on a 4 dimm motherboard? is that the right way to do it?


----------



## Robostyle

So, atm, I get something like this, while fine tuning my system
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=229590&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=229586&thumb=1

vRAM is 1.36v,
IO and SA are on stock - 0.95 and 1.05 respectively. 

Interesting that I found 1.36v for vRAM the most profitable - 1.344 works just fine, but 1.36 gives higher results ant tighter latency. Going up to 1.375 makes PC completely unstable and slow-responsive, 1.4 restores rapid response, but worsens the results.
IO and SA are best at stock. I've tired raising them to 1 and 1.1, which gave me a little better response. Going higher just makes things bad, results even worse.

Any ideas what else can I improve, without breaking things apart? Copy seems like a bit low for me....


----------



## Nizzen

Robostyle said:


> So, atm, I get something like this, while fine tuning my system
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=229590&thumb=1
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=229586&thumb=1
> 
> vRAM is 1.36v,
> IO and SA are on stock - 0.95 and 1.05 respectively.
> 
> Interesting that I found 1.36v for vRAM the most profitable - 1.344 works just fine, but 1.36 gives higher results ant tighter latency. Going up to 1.375 makes PC completely unstable and slow-responsive, 1.4 restores rapid response, but worsens the results.
> IO and SA are best at stock. I've tired raising them to 1 and 1.1, which gave me a little better response. Going higher just makes things bad, results even worse.
> 
> Any ideas what else can I improve, without breaking things apart? Copy seems like a bit low for me....


If yoy have B-die 3200 c14, it's very easy to overclock it to 4000 c16/17. Then the low bandwidth is solved 

vdram @ 1,45, vccsa and vccio @ 1,15-1,2v.


----------



## askan7

I decided to try a new beta bios from MSI, it seems to improve memory overclooking. Even 4133mhz that had random errors is completly stable now.

It also allowed me to lower trfc on my 4000mhz overclock and remain stable.

Edit: Raised trfc to 305 to improve write results.


----------



## mouacyk

askan7 said:


> I decided to try a new beta bios from MSI, it seems to improve memory overclooking. Even 4133mhz that had random errors is completly stable now.
> 
> It also allowed me to lower trfc on my 4000mhz overclock and remain stable.
> 
> Edit: Raised trfc to 305 to improve write results.


Your memory copy speed should be somewhere around 40GB/s not 10GB/s as your test is showing. You did not have enough free memory when you ran the test, so it actually used your virtual memory (HD/SSD), slowing down performance and completely invalidating your RAM test.


----------



## encrypted11

askan7 said:


> I decided to try a new beta bios from MSI, it seems to improve memory overclooking. Even 4133mhz that had random errors is completly stable now.
> 
> It also allowed me to lower trfc on my 4000mhz overclock and remain stable.
> 
> Edit: Raised trfc to 305 to improve write results.


Incidentally, you may have stress tested your SSDs instead of the memory.

Your copy rates should be 30000MB/s+ to 40000MB/s+ depending on frequency, timings and number of sticks used.


----------



## BigBeard86

Hi, I have a trident rgb kit rated at 4000mhz cas18 that I am using with my xi hero and 9900k. the problem is the ram wont allow the pc to post with anything less than 1.35v vccio and 1.4v SA. do you think this is too much? my cpu temperatures are fine, but I am worried the excess voltage may damage my cpu.
will lowering the speed but tightening the timings abd raising dram voltage be a safer option?

this is the kit I have: F4-4000C18Q-32GTZR

how much you guys think i can tighten timings, if 4000mhz at these voltages is safe?


----------



## askan7

mouacyk said:


> Your memory copy speed should be somewhere around 40GB/s not 10GB/s as your test is showing. You did not have enough free memory when you ran the test, so it actually used your virtual memory (HD/SSD), slowing down performance and completely invalidating your RAM test.


I guess i'll have to test again... The settings I used were "stressapptest -W -s 3600" I also checked task manager and didn't saw any disk usage.


----------



## encrypted11

add an -M <amounts of ram usage in mb> to the conditionals you've set.


----------



## askan7

encrypted11 said:


> add an -M <amounts of ram usage in mb> to the conditionals you've set.


Thanks. That fixed it.

4000 16-16-16-36 
I'm getting lower write score sometimes, due to memory training, it should be around 61GB/s not 60.

Any ideas on how to get CR1 to work? can't even post above 2666mhz, tried 3 different bios.


----------



## xSneak

Is it just me, or is hci memtest more reliable at finding errors than GSAT? I was running gsat for 1 hr to 1hr 30min and it wasn't throwing errors, but when I go into hci memtest at the same settings i get multiple errors. It seems I need to get beyond 200% coverage on hci to have a good chance of throwing no errors on longer runs.


----------



## KedarWolf

xSneak said:


> Is it just me, or is hci memtest more reliable at finding errors than GSAT? I was running gsat for 1 hr to 1hr 30min and it wasn't throwing errors, but when I go into hci memtest at the same settings i get multiple errors. It seems I need to get beyond 200% coverage on hci to have a good chance of throwing no errors on longer runs.


Usually if you get errors in HCI and not GSAT it's cache instability, not memory.


----------



## xSneak

KedarWolf said:


> Usually if you get errors in HCI and not GSAT it's cache instability, not memory.


My cache is at stock speeds. I just thought gsat was supposed to find errors faster than all of the other tests.


----------



## BLUuuE

xSneak said:


> Is it just me, or is hci memtest more reliable at finding errors than GSAT? I was running gsat for 1 hr to 1hr 30min and it wasn't throwing errors, but when I go into hci memtest at the same settings i get multiple errors. It seems I need to get beyond 200% coverage on hci to have a good chance of throwing no errors on longer runs.


Yeah this was the case for me as well but with Karhu RamTest instead of HCI. GSAT just doesn't seem to be that good at finding errors in my experience.



Spoiler


----------



## askan7

BLUuuE said:


> Yeah this was the case for me as well but with Karhu RamTest instead of HCI. GSAT just doesn't seem to be that good at finding errors in my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Same for me. At 4000 I'm stable on gsat with really tight sub timmings. But if I use ramtest while watching a movie in the background with mpc-hc+madvr it errors in less than 10min. I need twr at 11 instead of 10.

At 4000 17-17-17-37 1.376v I also need RRD 6, rrdl 8, trtp 8, instead of 5 7 6 to be stable on ramtest, while it's stable for 2 hours on gsat


----------



## Streetdragon

KedarWolf said:


> Usually if you get errors in HCI and not GSAT it's cache instability, not memory.


KedarWolf the DDRWhisperer!


----------



## Jpmboy

I think this thread needs to be handed off to KW...


----------



## mouacyk

I finally bought HCI MemTestPro in order to help with the automation of the tests, and my recent experience is lining up with that of @xSneak. I used to think that RamTest and GSAT discovered RAM errors quicker than HCI too, but that might no longer be the case. A test that takes nearly 600% (10 minute) coverage to error in RamTest errors in about 20% coverage (first couple minutes) in HCI.

My new order of testing is RamTest to around 300% (5 minutes) then HCI for 1000%. Sometimes, run native GSAT test of 1-2 hours afterward.


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> I finally bought HCI MemTestPro in order to help with the automation of the tests, and my recent experience is lining up with that of @*xSneak* . I used to think that RamTest and GSAT *discovered RAM errors quicker than HCI too, but that might no longer be the case*. A test that takes nearly 600% (10 minute) coverage to error in RamTest errors in about 20% coverage (first couple minutes) in HCI.
> 
> My new order of testing is RamTest to around 300% (5 minutes) then HCI for 1000%. Sometimes, run native GSAT test of 1-2 hours afterward.


with 32 or 64GB of ram, HCi takes geologic time to test the ram thoroughly. 

use the "-W" qualifier with gsat, eg with 32GB: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400


----------



## xSneak

Jpmboy said:


> with 32 or 64GB of ram, HCi takes geologic time to test the ram thoroughly.
> 
> use the "-W" qualifier with gsat, eg with 32GB: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400


What does the --pause_delay command do? I see it specifies the time between power spikes, but does that make it test more thoroughly?
Hci goes so slow i run it while im at work or sleeping.

Separately, what is the verdict on rgb ram? I thought i read on some overclocking forum that they werent as good for overclocking because the rgb hardware was introducing instability.


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> What does the --pause_delay command do? I see it specifies the time between power spikes, but does that make it test more thoroughly?
> Hci goes so slow i run it while im at work or sleeping.
> 
> Separately, what is the verdict on rgb ram? I thought i read on some overclocking forum that they werent as good for overclocking because the rgb hardware was introducing instability.


 so those power spikes, are not really spikes, they are actually a return to the power state. GSAT comes from the server environment, and a return to a load is a "spike". They are unnecessary for our purpose so just set a pause delay that is longer than the test duration (i just put double - it can be any value larger than the run time).
AFAIK, nothing has changed - stay away from rgb ram if you OC. I think the XMPs are fine.


----------



## mouacyk

Has anyone had good luck or experience with the 2x16GB kits yet?


----------



## xSneak

mouacyk said:


> Has anyone had good luck or experience with the 2x16GB kits yet?


I'm working with one right now. Its a 4000mhz cl19 kit from corsair. I've got it to boot at 3856mhz but its not stable. I'm testing it at 3800mhz right now. I tried 17-19-19 at 3900mhz but it wont post. I think its hard for the imc to run these kits.


----------



## mouacyk

xSneak said:


> I'm working with one right now. Its a 4000mhz cl19 kit from corsair. I've got it to boot at 3856mhz but its not stable. I'm testing it at 3800mhz right now. I tried 17-19-19 at 3900mhz but it wont post. I think its hard for the imc to run these kits.


How many dimm slots do you have? Depending on the answer to that, do you also know the topology type used for the traces?


----------



## JMTH

Jpmboy said:


> with 32 or 64GB of ram, HCi takes geologic time to test the ram thoroughly.
> 
> use the "-W" qualifier with gsat, eg with 32GB: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400


Yeah even with the "fast" version of HCI my 64GB takes 12-13 hours to get to 1000%

So I posted this a few months ago. Gsat by itself test all the ram timings and ram related voltage (ram and I think io and sa). RamTest does the same in the default mode.

HCI (or RamTest in cpu cache enabled mode) tests everything including uncore and can sometimes find core instability (its uncore 98.5% of the time, ok I don't have any actual statistics, but for my machine it was uncore all but once). 

Oh I just remembered another time where I had to increase the chipset voltage, but I can't remember if it was an error in HCI or if it was a graphical card oc issue. 

So if you fail in Gsat/RamTest default - timings, ram related voltages. 

Pass gsat/Rt and fail in HCI/enabled RT its uncore/core

Pass HCI and fail Gsat or Rt, oh yeah never happens hehe. At least that I remember hehe


----------



## xSneak

mouacyk said:


> How many dimm slots do you have? Depending on the answer to that, do you also know the topology type used for the traces?


I'm on an asrock z370 gaming-itx/ac. The highest frequency kit in the qvl is at 3800mhz. 
Saw this on the specifications page for the motherboard:
- 8 Layer PCB
- 4 x 2oz copper
I need to update my sig on here.


----------



## askan7

My efficient daily settings, 4000 17-17-17-37 1.376v.

Can lower trfc to 320 but requires higher vccio to be stable. If I lower twr to 10, rrd_s 5, rrd_l 7, tfaw 28 and trtp 6 it ramain stable on gsat but fail ramtest (not cache issue, i've tried stock)


----------



## Jpmboy

askan7 said:


> My efficient daily settings, 4000 17-17-17-37 1.376v.
> 
> Can lower trfc to 320 but requires higher vccio to be stable. If I lower twr to 10, rrd_s 5, rrd_l 7, tfaw 28 and trtp 6 it ramain stable on gsat but fail ramtest *(not cache issue, i've tried stock)*


this is where we tend to forget that an OC on the ram IS an OC on the cpu also. Sometimes, actually most times, a ram OC will require tuning one or more cpu voltages.


----------



## BigBeard86

would unstable ram result in lower bandwidth? 

I got no errors in memtest. aida64 doesn't let me see write and copy speeds...any other program that is free?


----------



## KedarWolf

I have AutoHotKey scripts i copied from another user, I forget who, and edited them for a 9900k. It'll open 16 instances of HCI MemTest Free or Pro spaced neatly and evenly using 90% of your RAM for 32GB of RAM. For 16GB of RAM try changing 1731 to 751. 

You want to run once instance for each thread of your CPU.

Download and install AutoHotKey from here. https://www.autohotkey.com/

Right click on your Memtest folder and 'New' "AutoHotKey Script'. Right click on the script and choose 'Run Script'.

*Edit the script and add the below code for the free version of Memtest.
*



Code:


xpos = 3
ypos = 5
Loop, 16
{
  if (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 18)
  {
    xpos = 4
    ypos += 370
  }

  Run, memtest.exe
  WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
  Send {Enter}
  sleep 100
  WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
  Send 1731{Tab}{Enter}
  WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
  Send {Enter}

   xpos += 222
}

*For the pro version.*



Code:


memory = 1731
rows = 4
columns = 4
hspacing = 0.8
vspacing = 0.8

y = 5
Loop, %rows%
{
  x = 3
  Loop, %columns%
  {
    Sleep 500
    Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
    Sleep 500
    WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 500
    WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 500
    WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
    x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
  }
  y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
}


----------



## BLUuuE

Spoiler






KedarWolf said:


> Anyone want a really great script for running MCI Memtest.
> 
> Download this and install. https://www.autohotkey.com/
> 
> Right click on the folder HCI MemTest is in, New, Autohotkey Script. it'll only work with the paid version of HCI MemTest. brb, I get a script for the free version.
> 
> Right click on the script, Edit, below is for a 9900k with 32GB of RAM but will work with any 8 core 16 thread CPU and 32GB of RAM. It'll open HCI evenly spaced, 16 instances of it, 1651 MB of memory in each instance.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> memory = 1651
> rows = 4
> columns = 4
> hspacing = 0.8
> vspacing = 0.8
> 
> y = 5
> Loop, %rows%
> {
> x = 3
> Loop, %columns%
> {
> Sleep 500
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
> Sleep 500
> WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
> x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
> }
> y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
> }
> 
> If you have an 8700k or something else adjust the memory amount and the rows and columns for the number of threads your CPU has. so like for an 8700k, 3 rows, 4 columns = HCI running 12 instances and make sure in task manager you are using 90% of your memory. You may have to double the number of instances over the threads you have like 24 HCI instances running for an 8700k or lower thread CPU's because I think the maximum amount of memory you can allocate in each instance won't allow you to get to 90% RAM usage.
> 
> For free version of HCI MemTest, 8700k, 16GB of RAM. Credit to @sdch
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 12
> {
> if (A_Index == 5) || (A_Index == 9)
> {
> xpos = 3
> ypos += 370
> }
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1024{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> xpos += 222
> }






I've made an AutoIT script to automate HCI MemTest. It uses a modified version of MemTest which just removes the nagging message boxes (when you start and when you get an error). I originally made it in AutoHotKey, but as the language was really awkward to use (coming from C++) it was hard to get it to do what I want.
Download


----------



## askan7

Is it placebo or lower RRD makes things, even the mouse feel snappier?


----------



## xSneak

I saw in my asrock bios there are settings for "system agent PLL voltage" and "Memory Controller PLL voltage", is there anything to be gained by adjusting these? I don't see them mentioned in any guides or forums.


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> I saw in my asrock bios there are settings for "system agent PLL voltage" and "Memory Controller PLL voltage", is there anything to be gained by adjusting these? I don't see them mentioned in any guides or forums.


unless you are running very high frequencies and tight timings (eg like 4000c12 stuff @ 1.9V) just leave these on auto. AsRock's auto rules are usually very "generous".


----------



## xSneak

Jpmboy said:


> unless you are running very high frequencies and tight timings (eg like 4000c12 stuff @ 1.9V) just leave these on auto. AsRock's auto rules are usually very "generous".


Ok thanks. 
Should I proceed with tightening the secondary timings on my ram, or wait for my 9900k to come in? i have the 4000mhz c19 corsair kit, but I can't get it to boot at 3900mhz or higher, so i've been running it at 3800mhz where it can boot reliably. Takes forever to do the stability testing.


----------



## sdch

KedarWolf said:


> Anyone want a really great script for running MCI Memtest.
> 
> Download this and install. https://www.autohotkey.com/
> 
> Right click on the folder HCI MemTest is in, New, Autohotkey Script. it'll only work with the paid version of HCI MemTest. brb, I get a script for the free version.
> 
> Right click on the script, Edit, below is for a 9900k with 32GB of RAM but will work with any 8 core 16 thread CPU and 32GB of RAM. It'll open HCI evenly spaced, 16 instances of it, 1651 MB of memory in each instance.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> memory = 1735
> rows = 4
> columns = 4
> hspacing = 0.8
> vspacing = 0.8
> 
> y = 5
> Loop, %rows%
> {
> x = 3
> Loop, %columns%
> {
> Sleep 500
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
> Sleep 500
> WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
> x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
> }
> y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have an 8700k or something else adjust the memory amount and the rows and columns for the number of threads your CPU has. so like for an 8700k, 3 rows, 4 columns = HCI running 12 instances and make sure in task manager you are using 90% of your memory. You may have to double the number of instances over the threads you have like 24 HCI instances running for an 8700k or lower thread CPU's because I think the maximum amount of memory you can allocate in each instance won't allow you to get to 90% RAM usage.
> 
> For free version of HCI MemTest, 8700k, 16GB of RAM. Credit to @sdch
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 12
> {
> if (A_Index == 5) || (A_Index == 9)
> {
> xpos = 3
> ypos += 370
> }
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1024{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> xpos += 222
> }


:thumb:

What do you guys think about RAM Test these days vs. HCI MemTest vs. W10 bash stressapptest? I've been out of the loop for a bit, but I still prefer a combo of stressapptest for an hour + HCI MemTest for 500% coverage. Is that pretty reasonable still, or any new developments/discoveries?


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ that works fine. the combo is best. :thumb:


----------



## sdch

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ that works fine. the combo is best. :thumb:


cheers


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- 9900K @5.0/4.8 1.355v -- 4000Mhz C17-17-17-33 2T -- 1.45v -SA 1.2250v - VCCIO 1.2250 -- HCI Memtest 850%

I ran HCI so it also tests my cache at 4.8GHZ. 

These are my final 24/7 timings and settings.


----------



## xSneak

I was messing around with my RTL/IO-L timings and training settings. I figured out how to lock them in and attempted to tighten them. I can't get my RTL timings to go lower at all, and i can only get my IO-L to go lower in exchange for higher RTL INIT values. I raised IO-L offset value to achieve this.
What is better: RTL INIT 65 / IO-L 6 or RTL INIT 71 / IO-L 2 ?

Edit: Was able to lower IO-L Init value from 4 -> 1 and now I can do 66 RTL INIT. I don't see faster latency in Aida64 and the R/W/C speeds seem within margin of error.


----------



## askan7

Any tips on how to improve even further? Tried to optimize terciary timmings but any change results in random occasional errors. 
I'm testing high refresh interval atm, see if i have any errors waking up from sleep state.

RRD_s 4 RRD_L 6 is stable on gsat but fails hci memtest.


----------



## axm

Can someone help me, I'm on an asus maximus viii impact Patriot 3733 ram which I think has samsung B die IC's.
I'm running 3600 16-19-19-35 right now, when I try tightening my timings to 15-19-19-35 I'm able to boot into windows, but not able to pass superpi 32m. 
I'm at 1.385v dram, 1.1 vccio and 1.1 vccsa. 
I've tried raising them to 1.25 1.25 and 1.3 1.3 and even pumping the dram voltage all the way to 1.51 but I can't seem to stabilize. Am I missing something I should tweak?

Note: Also, I've had a lot of trouble lowering my tRCD for some reason. I see other kits at 14-14-14 or 16-16-16 but for some reason I'm getting 17-20-20 or 16-19-19


----------



## Jpmboy

axm said:


> Can someone help me, I'm on an asus maximus viii impact Patriot 3733 ram which I think has samsung B die IC's.
> I'm running 3600 16-19-19-35 right now, when I try tightening my timings to 15-19-19-35 I'm able to boot into windows, but not able to pass superpi 32m.
> I'm at 1.385v dram, 1.1 vccio and 1.1 vccsa.
> I've tried raising them to 1.25 1.25 and 1.3 1.3 and even pumping the dram voltage all the way to 1.51 but I can't seem to stabilize. Am I missing something I should tweak?
> 
> Note: Also, I've had a lot of trouble lowering my tRCD for some reason. I see other kits at 14-14-14 or 16-16-16 but for some reason I'm getting 17-20-20 or 16-19-19


post up a snip of the SPD tab in CPUZ plz.


----------



## axm

Jpmboy said:


> post up a snip of the SPD tab in CPUZ plz.


----------



## BLUuuE

axm said:


>


Those are unlikely to be B-die. You can check with Thaiphoon Burner


----------



## axm

BLUuuE said:


> Those are unlikely to be B-die. You can check with Thaiphoon Burner


I looked with thaiphoon but it just says "?" 








I've looked at https://www.funkykit.com/reviews/memory/patriot-viper-4-32gb-ddr4-3733-memory-kit-review/5/ this review they only say samsung IC, 
and according to https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/ the bdie finder, they are bdie but idk


----------



## Lefty23

axm said:


> I looked with thaiphoon but it just says "?"
> I've looked at https://www.funkykit.com/reviews/memory/patriot-viper-4-32gb-ddr4-3733-memory-kit-review/5/ this review they only say samsung IC,
> and according to https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/ the bdie finder, they are bdie but idk


Is your RAM this one: PV416G373C7K (<-the only Patriot 3733c17 I found in the link below)?
If yes then it is not a B die according to this:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communi...liste-alle-hersteller-14-11-18-a-1161530.html

There is also a note (using Google translate) that: "There are also Hynix 8Gb CJR based copies with abw. Timings from 17-21-21"
These are the same timings as in the SPD tab in CPUZ posted above.


----------



## Jpmboy

axm said:


>



the only way to know for sure is to pull the heat spreaders. That said, the XMP is not consistent with B-die. Sorry.
You have pretty good settings already. what are you looking to achieve by further tuning?


----------



## RichKnecht

Been reading through this thread and notice that tfrc settings are much lower than mine are. I am running 32GB (XMP) Corsair vengence 3466 @ 16 18 18 36 2T and my clocks are 608. Does that seem high to anyone?


----------



## Jpmboy

RichKnecht said:


> Been reading through this thread and notice that tfrc settings are much lower than mine are. I am running 32GB (XMP) Corsair vengence 3466 @ 16 18 18 36 2T and my clocks are 608. Does that seem high to anyone?


yeah, that's higher than probably needed... try (and test) 390. XMP or Auto will do that.


----------



## janreiviardo

Hi guys, newbie here. I have g.skill 2x8gb 4000mhz cl17 ram (F4-4000C17D-16GTZR). My proc is 9900k and mobo is maximus xi code. My bios settings xmp, core to ai, avx offset 2. I can't get xmp to pass whether I use xmp I or xmp II and I even tried bumping the dram volts to 1.45v. Vccio and agent is 1.20 and 1.25v.

Now if I change xmp 17 17 17 37 to manual 17 18 18 38 and dram volt to 1.39v. It passes hci to 1000%. Should I be worried that my ram is no good? Should I rma it? Cause xmp is cl17 1.35v and it won't even get stable or pass memtest even if everything is stock and just load xmp and set volt to 1.45.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

janreiviardo said:


> Hi guys, newbie here. I have g.skill 2x8gb 4000mhz cl17 ram (F4-4000C17D-16GTZR). My proc is 9900k and mobo is maximus xi code. My bios settings xmp, core to ai, avx offset 2. I can't get xmp to pass whether I use xmp I or xmp II and I even tried bumping the dram volts to 1.45v. Vccio and agent is 1.20 and 1.25v.
> 
> Now if I change xmp 17 17 17 37 to manual 17 18 18 38 and dram volt to 1.39v. It passes hci to 1000%. Should I be worried that my ram is no good? Should I rma it? Cause xmp is cl17 1.35v and it won't even get stable or pass memtest even if everything is stock and just load xmp and set volt to 1.45.


It's not the ram, just a setting or two or possibly just the 9900k IMC can't do it. My guess is a setting or two.


----------



## Jpmboy

1.45v

It seems to me that ram is a bit more tricky on the 390 platform than 370 (or x299 for that matter). The 4x8GB GS ram kit I'm using is a decent b-die, and runs 4000 on my x299 apex at lower voltage and tighter 2nd and 3rd timings.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Yes ram oc is a lot tougher to get up there with the new cpus. Taps out at 4000MHz unless massive SA and IO. I can boot 4400 and bench and stuff, but to get stable is a task.


----------



## Vlada011

I test RAM with HCI... 16GB of RAM, 6 Core CPU = 6 HCI Windows, every 2048, few hours usually over night.


----------



## encrypted11

How about Fclk On Early Power On at 800MHz?
System Agent frequency will be lower, but I'm wondering if it makes an appreciable difference for the frequency capability of the DRAMs.


----------



## encrypted11

I'm on the 8700K I had since Z370, shes sitting in a Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac and I'm finding trouble getting the same GSAT stable TRFCs and secondaries I had on Z370.

POSTing on 3866MT/s+ 1T is significantly tougher and I'm having RTL IOL drifts on autos. However I've it does POST on C19-2T up to 4400MHz with ease. There are a couple of non-critical BIOS issues that are present. However it does affect memory overclocking and core overclocking with specific LLC levels on offset mode. There are also some performance issues with balanced + speedshift.


----------



## vmanuelgm

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Yes ram oc is a lot tougher to get up there with the new cpus. Taps out at 4000MHz unless massive SA and IO. I can boot 4400 and bench and stuff, but to get stable is a task.



Hi mate.

What's your best stable memory and uncore oc???


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> I'm on the 8700K I had since Z370, shes sitting in a Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac and I'm finding trouble getting the same GSAT stable TRFCs and secondaries I had on Z370.
> 
> POSTing on 3866MT/s+ 1T is significantly tougher and I'm having RTL IOL drifts on autos. However I've it does POST on C19-2T up to 4400MHz with ease. There are a couple of non-critical BIOS issues that are present. However it does affect memory overclocking and core overclocking with specific LLC levels on offset mode. *There are also some performance issues with balanced + speedshift*.


what are you seeing.. and is that with w10 1809?


----------



## encrypted11

Jpmboy said:


> what are you seeing.. and is that with w10 1809?


I'm on 1809. The issue can be completely worked around by using the Ultimate Performance power plan, I wasn't seeing this particular issue on the Z370 board.

On lightly threaded stuff / legacy titles the core frequencies stick way too close to 800MHz LFM.. it's looking to be a BIOS issue on my board and I doubt its a 1809 problem. I've enabled all C states including C1E up to C10 & Speedshift, falling back to C7/C8 as with the Z370 doesn't yield any noticeable improvement.


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> I'm on 1809. The issue can be completely worked around by using the Ultimate Performance power plan, I wasn't seeing this particular issue on the Z370 board.
> 
> On lightly threaded stuff / legacy titles the core frequencies stick way too close to 800MHz LFM.. it's looking to be a BIOS issue on my board and I doubt its a 1809 problem. I've enabled all C states including C1E up to C10 & Speedshift, falling back to C7/C8 as with the Z370 doesn't yield any noticeable improvement.


 I ask because after "upgrading" to 1809 it seems that the load-distribution (by thread) in speedshift is broken... it seems the C6 com link is the problem (OS native).


----------



## encrypted11

Jpmboy said:


> I ask because after "upgrading" to 1809 it seems that the load-distribution (by thread) in speedshift is broken... it seems the C6 com link is the problem (OS native).


Have you seen this issue on the X Apex?


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> Have you seen this issue on the X Apex?


x299, z370 and z390


----------



## rt123

Not too bad considering these are RGB sticks. GSAT next once I figure out how to run it. If it survives GSAT, then I'd like to tighten the 2nds & 3rds some more. I know primaries will not go lower.


----------



## Jpmboy

rt123 said:


> Not too bad considering these are RGB sticks. GSAT next once I figure out how to run it. If it survives GSAT, then I'd like to tighten the 2nds & 3rds some more. I know primaries will not go lower.


 _Who's this_? ... good to see ya RT. 

Probably the best I've heard of with the RGB sticks.


----------



## rt123

Hello Jpm. Been a while. 


So I gather, your experience hasn't been that good with RGBs as well. ?


Edit:- While these do look good right now, I am not sure if the 2nds/3rds will hold upto the scrutiny of GSAT. We shall see.


----------



## KedarWolf

Linpack Xtreme 1.0.0 is a good quick way to test CPU stability.

Run it by pressing 2 'Stress Test' then 5 '9.6GB (Maximum Allowed)' and 1, '5 Times' next Yes for 'All Available Threads', then 'No' for 'Disable Sleep Mode; and No for "Run CPUID In The Background'.

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/linpack-xtreme/


It uses AVX and i run it with an AVX offset of 5 to keep temps under 80C while running it.

*Note: Have HWInfo open first time you run it, make sure with your AVX offset your CPU is below 80C. And if your CPU or RAM is unstable a good chance you'll BSOD so you were warned beforehand. *

If your residuals are not normalized like below your CPU or memory is unstable in its overclock. *Also, you need to have monitoring programs like HWInfo and MSI Afterburner closed or your residuals will be messed up.*


----------



## Sneakyshadow

Hey I posted this question in another thread but not getting any replies so going to try my luck here.

I am considering buying either the Asus MAXIMUS XI HERO or the Gigabyte AORUS MASTER which both use T-Topology. My question is since they are both t-top, would I get better performance/overclocking using 4 sticks or 2 sticks? (assuming both sets are the same base speed/timings). For clarity im not looking to go above 4000MHz. I know usually people recommend 2 sticks but with t-top im not sure.



Also completely unrelated question, when buying RAM that you plan to overclock (b-die oblivously) would it be easier to achieve a stable overclock with a set that has a low timings say CL14/32000MHz and raise the MHz up, or buy a set with higher base MHz like CL18/3800MHz and adjust the timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

rt123 said:


> Hello Jpm. Been a while.
> So I gather, your experience hasn't been that good with RGBs as well. ?
> Edit:- While these do look good right now, I am not sure if the 2nds/3rds will hold upto the scrutiny of GSAT. We shall see.


they are not dogpoop, but my experience has been they are more resistant to finding stable high and tight settings. I bought 2 sets... sent one back for non-RGB. Used the other in a build for a family member who likes the pinball machine look more than ram timings (understandable :blinksmil).


----------



## askan7

rt123 said:


> Not too bad considering these are RGB sticks. GSAT next once I figure out how to run it. If it survives GSAT, then I'd like to tighten the 2nds & 3rds some more. I know primaries will not go lower.



Can you share how you managed to test over 15gb of ram on a 16gb system without pagging? I can't do more than 14gb, maybe 14500 if i start and stop the last instance to free up some memory.


----------



## rt123

Jpmboy said:


> they are not dogpoop, but my experience has been they are more resistant to finding stable high and tight settings. I bought 2 sets... sent one back for non-RGB. Used the other in a build for a family member who likes the pinball machine look more than ram timings (understandable :blinksmil).


 Makes sense.

I feel dirty saying it, but some of the bling is growing on me these days. I might have to buy these (silver), http://gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-launches-trident-z-royal-series-ddr4-rgb-memory-kits

They looked awesome in person at Computex. But they had the regular clear Strip on top there, not this weird diamond design. So will have to see that goes.



askan7 said:


> Can you share how you managed to test over 15gb of ram on a 16gb system without pagging? I can't do more than 14gb, maybe 14500 if i start and stop the last instance to free up some memory.


I tested with paging file on. I guess I wasn't supposed to? Imo, OS can run with ~900mb easily & I would hope that windows pushes any of the rest of the junk to page file instead of the memtest instances.


----------



## Jpmboy

rt123 said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> I feel dirty saying it, but some of the bling is growing on me these days. I might have to buy these (silver), http://gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-launches-trident-z-royal-series-ddr4-rgb-memory-kits
> 
> They looked awesome in person at Computex. But they had the regular clear Strip on top there, not this weird diamond design. So will have to see that goes.
> 
> I tested with paging file on. I guess I wasn't supposed to? Imo, OS can run with ~900mb easily & I would hope that windows pushes any of the rest of the junk to page file instead of the memtest instances.


oh... you just had to post that link, didn't you.


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> oh... you just had to post that link, didn't you.


OUCH!!!


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> oh... you just had to post that link, didn't you.




@Jpmboy I may have gotten my 9900k stable at 4133MHZ but I had to use different timings than my old 8700k. So far no errors in HCI MemTest.

The trick was to raise tRTP to 8, tFAW to 32, and tRFC to 374.

Also, I put the TRRD's to 8 and 6 but I probably could have left them on 7 and 5.

Here's my ASRock Timing Configurator.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- i9 9900K @ 5.0/4.6 -- 4133Mhz C17-17-17-32-2T 1.45v --SA 1.2625v -- VCCIO 1.250v -- HCI 460%


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Did some benching tonight, and just for giggles ran aida64 cache and memory benchmark:


----------



## axm

Lefty23 said:


> axm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked with thaiphoon but it just says "?"
> I've looked at https://www.funkykit.com/reviews/memory/patriot-viper-4-32gb-ddr4-3733-memory-kit-review/5/ this review they only say samsung IC,
> and according to https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/ the bdie finder, they are bdie but idk
> 
> 
> 
> Is your RAM this one: PV416G373C7K (<-the only Patriot 3733c17 I found in the link below)?
> If yes then it is not a B die according to this:
> https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communi...liste-alle-hersteller-14-11-18-a-1161530.html
> 
> There is also a note (using Google translate) that: "There are also Hynix 8Gb CJR based copies with abw. Timings from 17-21-21"
> These are the same timings as in the SPD tab in CPUZ posted above.
Click to expand...




Jpmboy said:


> axm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the only way to know for sure is to pull the heat spreaders. That said, the XMP is not consistent with B-die. Sorry.
> You have pretty good settings already. what are you looking to achieve by further tuning?
Click to expand...

Okay well I've done some research, they're not hynix because thaiphoon says Samsung, and they're not e die because e die only comes in 4gb die, and mine is 8 gb. I found this screenshot of some teamgroup ram that looks very similar to mine so I think mine is b die https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1631077/8/85/85093c69_teamic.jpeg

Also this article https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...dies-patriot-viper-rgb-ddr4-3200-im-test.html claims they're b die

That begs the question why can't I go clock to b die speeds like 3600 c15? In fact after testing I can only run them with the xmp profile, if I try to do 3733 17-21-21-38 1t 1.6v I can't pass occt, only with 3733 17-21-21-41 2t 1.35v can I pass consistently


----------



## Hiikeri

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Did some benching tonight, and just for giggles ran aida64 cache and memory benchmark:


VDimm?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

1.55v


----------



## janreiviardo

Hi, I'm back. I doubted that may be one of the sticks is faulty so I went and test 1 stick at a time. Both of them passed 6400% ram test 1000% hci memtest at stock xmp 2 settings. I even tested both slots just to be sure. But when I put back both and test at the same settings even raising the dram voltage to 1.475v, I am still failing memtest and ramtest. I already tried bringing down uncore to 4.0ghz. I also did try playing with vccio and agent, put it on auto same, put in 1.20-1.30v same. What could be possibly the problem? I only want to be able to use xmp. Not planning to overclock the dram.

Edit: in HWinfo I would sometimes see an WHEA error "CPU Cache L0 Errors". Why is this happening. My uncore is already set to 4ghz. It should even be stable at 4.3ghz.



janreiviardo said:


> Hi guys, newbie here. I have g.skill 2x8gb 4000mhz cl17 ram (F4-4000C17D-16GTZR). My proc is 9900k and mobo is maximus xi code. My bios settings xmp, core to ai, avx offset 2. I can't get xmp to pass whether I use xmp I or xmp II and I even tried bumping the dram volts to 1.45v. Vccio and agent is 1.20 and 1.25v.
> 
> Now if I change xmp 17 17 17 37 to manual 17 18 18 38 and dram volt to 1.39v. It passes hci to 1000%. Should I be worried that my ram is no good? Should I rma it? Cause xmp is cl17 1.35v and it won't even get stable or pass memtest even if everything is stock and just load xmp and set volt to 1.45.


----------



## Jpmboy

janreiviardo said:


> Hi, I'm back. I doubted that may be one of the sticks is faulty so I went and test 1 stick at a time. Both of them passed 6400% ram test 1000% hci memtest at stock xmp 2 settings. I even tested both slots just to be sure. But when I put back both and test at the same settings even raising the dram voltage to 1.475v, I am still failing memtest and ramtest. I already tried bringing down uncore to 4.0ghz. I also did try playing with vccio and agent, put it on auto same, put in 1.20-1.30v same. What could be possibly the problem? I only want to be able to use xmp. Not planning to overclock the dram.
> 
> Edit: in HWinfo I would sometimes see an WHEA error "CPU Cache L0 Errors". Why is this happening. My uncore is already set to 4ghz. It should even be stable at 4.3ghz.


a ram OC is an overclock on the CPU IMC also. If the XMP settings do not raise the cacheV over stock, you will need to.


----------



## janreiviardo

Jpmboy said:


> a ram OC is an overclock on the CPU IMC also. If the XMP settings do not raise the cacheV over stock, you will need to.


How do I increase the cachev? I've been trying to look for that settings in bios no luck finding it.


----------



## CptSpig

janreiviardo said:


> How do I increase the cachev? I've been trying to look for that settings in bios no luck finding it.



Cache / Ring Voltage.


----------



## GeneO

janreiviardo said:


> Hi, I'm back. I doubted that may be one of the sticks is faulty so I went and test 1 stick at a time. Both of them passed 6400% ram test 1000% hci memtest at stock xmp 2 settings. I even tested both slots just to be sure. But when I put back both and test at the same settings even raising the dram voltage to 1.475v, I am still failing memtest and ramtest. I already tried bringing down uncore to 4.0ghz. I also did try playing with vccio and agent, put it on auto same, put in 1.20-1.30v same. What could be possibly the problem? I only want to be able to use xmp. Not planning to overclock the dram.
> 
> Edit: in HWinfo I would sometimes see an WHEA error "CPU Cache L0 Errors". Why is this happening. My uncore is already set to 4ghz. It should even be stable at 4.3ghz.



uncore is for L3 cache. L0 cache is in the core - you need more core voltage for the WHEA, it is unstable. Also, ring voltage can only be changed by changing the core voltage on these processors.


----------



## t0yz

Hello everyone,

I have a bit of a more peculiar situation. Full details here. Asking for some opinions in this topic as the Memory subforum seems rather dead. In short, I bought some err.... strange A-Data RAM, ICs by SpekTek, ended up in endless stability testing and frustration over 11 months. At times I thought it was stable, but usually some new game would crash, I'd run Blend, and I would be proven wrong. One last incident with SotTR made me stability test again, this time it was a game bug that caused freezes, yet it allowed me to discover something weird about my RAM:

- even though it rated at 1.35V for XMP, Auto (1.36V read) are already unstable, and so is each bump above. 1.37-1.39V VDIMM cause BSODs.
- yet I can run the RAM stably (passed 12 hrs Blend and 5 hrs of WinGsat) at 1.2V at it's 3000MHz XMP speeds. 

I used to think it was the high SA/IO voltages set by Auto motherboard settings (1.32/1.25) that were causing the instability, as the 1.35V were in the XMP. I was wrong. It's the VDIMM itself. Now the SA/IO are at 1.15/1.10. I would not even be able to boot with these values with VDIMM at 1.35V.

Is this normal? I've never met RAM/CPU that wants less voltage for higher speeds, seem against all common OC knowledge.


----------



## Hiikeri

Your motherboard bios updated to latest?


----------



## t0yz

Hiikeri said:


> Your motherboard bios updated to latest?


Yup, last 1.5 BIOS from MSI.

I can even go as high as 3400MHz (CL19 instead of 16 though) with the same 1.2V VDIMM and 1.15/1.10 SA/IO. At least this is what I had time to stress test for. CL16 is BSODing at 3400MHz and these voltages.

I am happy with what I assume that is a finally stable 3000MHz stable XMP, especially at low voltages (no impact on CPU thermals however, sadly), but I am just curious about how is this possible, a kit that is adverse to 1.36V when rated at 1.35V. 

By the way, the kit is not on the motherboard QVL. I assume the timings are not perfect. Already the motherboard sets good primary timings as per the XMP spec, but it fails 1 secondary timing, RRD_L (increased from 7T to 9T if left on Auto). Considering the dozens of timings and RAM settings available in BIOS, I assume they might be all over the place, but I just don't have the knowledge to "fix" them, nor do I think it's worth my money to buy better DDR4 RAM now when DDR5 is supposed to not be far away.

I'm also curious is other people maybe don't need 1.35V for their XMP if it's on the lower end, like 3000MHz for me.


----------



## Enterprise24

Why my memory bandwidth is so low at 9900 MB/s even with disable swap ?
This is Hynix AFR OEM RAM 2133 @ 3500 16-18-18-36-2T tighten all sub-timings. 50GB/s+ in all test of AIDA.


----------



## mouacyk

How much did you specify to be allocated with the -M parameter?


----------



## t0yz

Small update to my posts above.

- tried OCing the RAM, looks like at its rated frequency (3000MHz) I cannot get better CL, it's just CL16 just like in XMP
- I can get better frequency at the same (primary) timings though, for example 3400MHz @CL16 with just 1.3V VDIMM and a bump in SA/IO to 1.32/1.20V
- raising the VDIMM above 1.34V or so is causing instability. 1.37V-1.4V is causing BSODs so I didn't bother going above.
- I am very disappointed with WinGSAT/stresstestapp; it would pass 1hr while Blend would fail in under a minute. It seems to be unable to detect instability as fast as prime95's Blend, and if it cannot do that, it's pretty damn useless IMO. There's a serious chance that RAM that was considered stable because it passes GSAT to be failing in a matter of seconds in Blend.

So my RAM definitely seems to dislike higher VDIMM voltages that are typical for XMP on DDR4, i.e. 1.35V. have no idea why but it's really weird. I had the expectation that 1.35V would be the start point for OC, not the end, but in my case, it definitely seems that it is.


----------



## Enterprise24

mouacyk said:


> How much did you specify to be allocated with the -M parameter?


13500


----------



## Enterprise24

mouacyk said:


> How much did you specify to be allocated with the -M parameter?


Just try 13000 and got 38466 MB/s. Thanks


----------



## kongasdf

axm said:


> Okay well I've done some research, they're not hynix because thaiphoon says Samsung, and they're not e die because e die only comes in 4gb die, and mine is 8 gb. I found this screenshot of some teamgroup ram that looks very similar to mine so I think mine is b die https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1631077/8/85/85093c69_teamic.jpeg
> 
> Also this article https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...dies-patriot-viper-rgb-ddr4-3200-im-test.html claims they're b die
> 
> That begs the question why can't I go clock to b die speeds like 3600 c15? In fact after testing I can only run them with the xmp profile, if I try to do 3733 17-21-21-38 1t 1.6v I can't pass occt, only with 3733 17-21-21-41 2t 1.35v can I pass consistently


Hi Axm,

You can try the following timing.


----------



## janreiviardo

Hi guys I'm back. I gave up on xmp II, for whatsoever reason I cannot get 17 17 17 37 stable. I have to use 17 18 18 3x. I managed to go up to 4100mhz with 18. Need your inputs with my current OC. Still very new to this. Is my score good enough for my current OC? It is 10000% stable in ram test and 800% in hci memtest.


----------



## KedarWolf

janreiviardo said:


> Hi guys I'm back. I gave up on xmp II, for whatsoever reason I cannot get 17 17 17 37 stable. I have to use 17 18 18 3x. I managed to go up to 4100mhz with 18. Need your inputs with my current OC. Still very new to this. Is my score good enough for my current OC? It is 10000% stable in ram test and 800% in hci memtest.


You can lower your RTL's.

BRB, getting screenshots from BIOS how to do it properly.

Have RTL's on Auto like below. Just change Latency Offset like that, reboot.










*Then change RTL's like below to match the lowest numbers in the left not changeable column. Leave IOL's on Auto.
*









*If you're not stable try Latency Offset of 15/15 and yours RTL's 63/63/63/63/65/65/65/65*


----------



## KedarWolf

My 9900k at 4000MHZ.


----------



## KedarWolf

janreiviardo said:


> Hi guys I'm back. I gave up on xmp II, for whatsoever reason I cannot get 17 17 17 37 stable. I have to use 17 18 18 3x. I managed to go up to 4100mhz with 18. Need your inputs with my current OC. Still very new to this. Is my score good enough for my current OC? It is 10000% stable in ram test and 800% in hci memtest.


This is me at 4100MHZ GSAT stable. BRB, more BIOS settings.










*BIOS settings below for 4100MHZ 17-17-17-32 2T try 1T as well.*



Spoiler


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> a ram OC is an overclock on the CPU IMC also. If the XMP settings do not raise the cacheV over stock, you will need to.


never mind, sometimes stable at 4100MHZ, sometimes not. I know if Chrome crashes it's because my memory is unstable. 

@Jpmboy

Which would you use for your 24/7 OC on a 9900k.

4100MHZ memory at 65-65-65-65-67-67-67-67 14-4-14-4-14-4-14-4 RTL's and IOL's

or 

4000MHZ 63-63-63-63-65-65-65-65 14-4-14-4-14-4-14-4.

Both are GSAT and Linpack Xtreme stable.

I get a good bit better AIDA64 benches in the 4100MHZ and almost the exact same latency.


----------



## t0yz

For my PC at least GSAT and Linx/IBT are nearly useless. Blend would detect instability in below a minute when GSAT would run without errors for 5 hours. I have no idea why people use these apps. You'd have to be extremely unstable to get errors in them.


----------



## KedarWolf

t0yz said:


> For my PC at least GSAT and Linx/IBT are nearly useless. Blend would detect instability in below a minute when GSAT would run without errors for 5 hours. I have no idea why people use these apps. You'd have to be extremely unstable to get errors in them.


Where do I get Blend?


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> never mind, sometimes stable at 4100MHZ, sometimes not. I know if Chrome crashes it's because my memory is unstable.
> 
> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> Which would you use for your 24/7 OC on a 9900k.
> 
> 4100MHZ memory at 65-65-65-65-67-67-67-67 14-4-14-4-14-4-14-4 RTL's and IOL's
> 
> or
> 
> 4000MHZ 63-63-63-63-65-65-65-65 14-4-14-4-14-4-14-4.
> 
> Both are GSAT and Linpack Xtreme stable.
> 
> I get a good bit better AIDA64 benches in the 4100MHZ and almost the exact same latency.


depends on the voltage difference, if any. Try super Pi 32M - better at latency effect(s).


----------



## t0yz

KedarWolf said:


> Where do I get Blend?


prime95. Blend is pretty great at detecting (RAM or IMC related) instability for me. The longest I've seen errors in it was 11hrs, typically try at least 12.


----------



## KedarWolf

t0yz said:


> prime95. Blend is pretty great at detecting (RAM or IMC related) instability for me. The longest I've seen errors in it was 11hrs, typically try at least 12.


Which version do you use?


----------



## Jpmboy

t0yz said:


> For my PC at least GSAT and Linx/IBT are nearly useless. Blend would detect instability in below a minute when GSAT would run without errors for 5 hours. I have no idea why people use these apps. You'd have to be extremely unstable to get errors in them.


are you talking about p95 blend?


----------



## t0yz

KedarWolf said:


> Which version do you use?


The last one, with AVX. Seeing as you're running [email protected] which I assume it will get madly hot and throttle with AVX, you could use 26.6 I guess which shouldn't have AVX.


----------



## KedarWolf

t0yz said:


> The last one, with AVX. Seeing as you're running [email protected] which I assume it will get madly hot and throttle with AVX, you could use 26.6 I guess which shouldn't have AVX.


For Linpack Xtreme I use an AVX offset of 5.


----------



## Jpmboy

Straight blend does not use much of any ram. For custom, you still nees to commit >90% of installed ram in p95 for it to actually test most of the ram. Otherwise, you are more likely seeing IMC or core instability in p95 (or thermal effects). And you can manually set the recent versions to run with or without AVX. read the undoc.txt file in thre p95 folder..


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> Straight blend does not use much of any ram. For custom, you still nees to commit >90% of installed ram in p95 for it to actually test most of the ram. Otherwise, you are more likely seeing IMC or core instability in p95 (or thermal effects). And you can manually set the recent versions to run with or without AVX. read the undoc.txt file in thre p95 folder..


I enabled the 3 AVX options, running Blend with 27511MB of RAM, getting 63C highest CPU core temp. No AVX Offset. Oh wait, took a bit to start, getting 80C temps no Offset.

Edit. Linpack Xtreme I find is a quick 15 minute way to test instability. If my residuals are not normalized and the same in all five runs then something is unstable, usually memory.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> I enabled the 3 AVX options, running Blend with 27511MB of RAM, getting *63C highest CPU core temp*.


 what FFT was that temp at?


btw - if your ram settings pass GSAT and ramtest or Hci, the ram is stable (period). Remember, there is at least one p95 stress test FFT that has trouble with the recent microcode patches AFAIK.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> what FFT was that temp at?
> 
> 
> btw - if your ram settings pass GSAT and ramtest or Hci, the ram is stable (period). Remember, there is at least one p95 stress test FFT that has trouble with the recent microcode patches AFAIK.


Was getting 80C when it really kicked in. That was with Blend at default settings except for memory.


----------



## Jpmboy

hopefully you're not planning to run p95 for many hours...


----------



## t0yz

Jpmboy said:


> what FFT was that temp at?
> 
> 
> btw - if your ram settings pass GSAT and ramtest or Hci, the ram is stable (period). Remember, there is at least one p95 stress test FFT that has trouble with the recent microcode patches AFAIK.


Unsure what to say, but at least for GSAT, it's in no way a guarantee of being stable. To OC RAM you need to mess with IMC settings, there's no way to just increase VDIMM and OC, at a certain point you'll have to work with SA and IO. So you can get the IMC to an unstable state.

I have no idea what Blend does better, but GSAT ran for 5 hrs, IBT for 2-3 hrs with Max settings, the memtest64 from techpowerup overnight for maybe 8-9 hrs, all would pass. But my games would crash, for example AC:Origins would CTD after each benchmark.

Then I ran Blend and workers stopped in under a minute. Once I fixed Blend to no longer give errors, stability returned as well, AC:O and others.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that for each case this is the ultimate bench, all I'm saying is try Blend too. In my case the default options were enough, I think it's 2GB RAM. I ran it with 10GB too so one could try that for sure, just unsure how much it matters since it still detects instability at default settings.

Also, I have the 0x96 (96h in AIDA64) microcode for my 8700K, I think it's the last one. prime95 is stable with it in all the 3 default modes. Which microcode revision makes it fail, is it for the 8700K or for other CPUs? Thanks.


----------



## Jpmboy

t0yz said:


> Unsure what to say, but at least for GSAT, it's in no way a guarantee of being stable. To OC RAM you need to mess with IMC settings, there's no way to just increase VDIMM and OC, at a certain point you'll have to work with SA and IO. So you can get the IMC to an unstable state.
> 
> I have no idea what Blend does better, but GSAT ran for 5 hrs, IBT for 2-3 hrs with Max settings, the memtest64 from techpowerup overnight for maybe 8-9 hrs, all would pass. But my games would crash, for example AC:Origins would CTD after each benchmark.
> 
> Then I ran Blend and workers stopped in under a minute. Once I fixed Blend to no longer give errors, stability returned as well, AC:O and others.
> 
> Just to be clear, I'm not saying that for each case this is the ultimate bench, all I'm saying is try Blend too. In my case the default options were enough, I think it's 2GB RAM. I ran it with 10GB too so one could try that for sure, just unsure how much it matters since it still detects instability at default settings.
> 
> Also, I have the 0x96 (96h in AIDA64) microcode for my 8700K, I think it's the last one. prime95 is stable with it in all the 3 default modes. Which microcode revision makes it fail, is it for the 8700K or for other CPUs? Thanks.


 that's because you are testing different things. Yes, GSAT really does isolate the RAM subsystem to ensure it's stability (and why google uses it to test server ram configurations). p95 custom blend with 90% of ram (manually) committed is fine to use, but may likely result in a core frequency 1-200MHz lower simply because of it's thermal load. Eg... in the intel spec sheet for that processor, when you see "Virus Mode TDP" they mean p95. 
The uCode patches address an issue present in all recent Intel processors (due to design). the problem was (is?) with a single FFT and was reported by Mersenne.org.

That said, if your system is running the way you want it to... Enjoy!


----------



## KedarWolf

4100MHZ wasn't HCI MemTest and Linpack XTreme stable until I lowered my RAM voltage some and my SA a notch. Need more voltage with 4000MHZ to be Linpack XTreme stable, not sure why. 
:h34r-smi


----------



## sdch

Edit: bad data, please ignore


Spoiler



First attempt, voltages not dialed in yet. Just took my 8700K timings but changed the primaries from 16-18-18-38-2 to 16-16-16-36-2. 9900K is an OEM from a local computer store. Kinda disappointed with the core/cache OC.

Kit: F4-4266C19D-16GTZKW (2017 Jan)

Screenshot (stressapptest -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700):









Bios settings:


Spoiler





































































Someone smarter than me can probably improve on these.


----------



## mouacyk

sdch said:


> First attempt, voltages not dialed in yet. Just took my 8700K timings but changed the primaries from 16-18-18-38-2 to 16-16-16-36-2. 9900K is an OEM from a local computer store. Kinda disappointed with the core/cache OC.
> 
> Kit: F4-4266C19D-16GTZKW (2017 Jan)
> 
> Screenshot (stressapptest -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bios settings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone smarter than me can probably improve on these.


Memory copy speed of 10GB/s is testing your virtual memory instead of RAM. Should be around 40GB/s for that speed. Try "-M 12280" to allocate 12.3GB of your 16GB for the test.


----------



## Jpmboy

nvm


----------



## Krim0407

KedarWolf said:


> 4100MHZ wasn't HCI MemTest and Linpack XTreme stable until I lowered my RAM voltage some and my SA a notch. Need more voltage with 4000MHZ to be Linpack XTreme stable, not sure why.
> :h34r-smi
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



So I've been following this thread on and off for a bit, but this is my first time posting here. I run 2 kits of Trident Z RGB 3200MHZ CL14 together with a 8700k (5.0/[email protected]), but I've never been able to stabilize anything higher than 3600C16, performing similar or worse to 3200C14 with some tightened subtimings. I saw your post on how you set up RTL/IO-Ls quite easy, and I realized I've probably been way too stubborn on trying to get stable with an offset of 21/21. Long story short: I tried your timings as well, and to my surprise it posted at [email protected] right away. Unfortunately I had to back down to 3866 MHz due to error in RAMTest after 500-600%, but I'm still really impressed with the stability (RAMTest 10,000%+ and RealBench 2h) and performance compared to what I had earlier (3200C14 tuned gave 48458-49572-46681-43.0 in AIDA64).

3866C17 might not be too impressive, but considering they are RGB modules and two separate kits I'm happy with the result. Tried to get 4000+ stable, but the voltages are already close to what I'm comfortable with running daily. Screenshots below. 

Three questions:

- What do you have your Write To Read Delay at? Unfortunately this timing is not visible in the ASRock Timing Configurator. 

- Do you try to tighten down the RTL/IO-Ls after finding stability, or is it a waste of time?

- You run tREFI at 65535. Are you doing this just for benching or 24/7? I read about data corruption somewhere, but then again I'm very new to tuning RAM. 

Krim0407--i7 8700K @5.0/4.7---G.Skill F4-3200C14-16GTZR (x2-->4x8GB)---3866Mhz-C17-17-17-32-2T----VDimm 1.45v(eventual)---IO 1.27v---SA 1.24 v---RAMTest 10,000%
Board: Asus Maximus X Hero


----------



## sdch

mouacyk said:


> Memory copy speed of 10GB/s is testing your virtual memory instead of RAM. Should be around 40GB/s for that speed. Try "-M 12280" to allocate 12.3GB of your 16GB for the test.


I knew something was up. Thank you.


----------



## sdch

mouacyk said:


> Memory copy speed of 10GB/s is testing your virtual memory instead of RAM. Should be around 40GB/s for that speed. Try "-M 12280" to allocate 12.3GB of your 16GB for the test.


Here we go, something a little more realistic. Now I have a base to work from.


----------



## mouacyk

sdch said:


> Here we go, something a little more realistic. Now I have a base to work from.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Nice work. That latency is insanely good. What are your VDIMM and SA/IO voltages?


----------



## dante`afk

question folks:

I have the following kit 2x F4-4266C19D-16GTZR - B-Dies

I can run it with 32gb at 4266 cl17/18/39 which results in aida with 63k/65/61k - 38ns
However if I run the kit with 16gb only (on my 4dimm board) i can get max 4000 cl19/19/39 which results in aida at 59k/59k/53k 38ns

both settings were tested with karhu to determine this max result

my thinking is the following: I am considering selling one kit (which I got an offer for 300 currently) and to switch to a gene or apex x/xi (which is nowhere to buy at the moment here in the US) - with the hopes to get better ram OC results on a 2 dimm board.

is it worth in your opinion? where do I feel/see the difference in having lower bandwidth results when I go down to 16gb (as they show in aida) ?


----------



## encrypted11

It does seem as if the cannonlake-PCH based APTIO V BIOSes aren't getting better memory tuning results over their kabylake-PCH counterpart currently?

I've received the late November production BIOS (P1.30) for the Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac from ASRock TSD, memory overclocking still isn't great relative to its Z370 predecessor. I'm still having some speedshift performance issues with CPU clocks staying far closer to LFM but there are some LLC and SIO readout improvements. 
@sdch great result.


----------



## sdch

mouacyk said:


> Nice work. That latency is insanely good. What are your VDIMM and SA/IO voltages?


I've set them in the BIOS like so:
VDIMM: 1.44V
VCCIO: 1.225V
VCCSA: 1.25V

All the BIOS settings are in this post in the spoiler. Only changes I made since are the primary timings (now 16-17-17-37-2):



sdch said:


> Edit: bad data, please ignore
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> First attempt, voltages not dialed in yet. Just took my 8700K timings but changed the primaries from 16-18-18-38-2 to 16-16-16-36-2. 9900K is an OEM from a local computer store. Kinda disappointed with the core/cache OC.
> 
> Kit: F4-4266C19D-16GTZKW (2017 Jan)
> 
> Screenshot (stressapptest -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bios settings:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone smarter than me can probably improve on these.


----------



## larrydavid

For IO-L offsets, is a higher or lower value the more performant one? I'm running 4x8GB DIMMs and they default to 21, yet I see many here running 14.


----------



## dante`afk

lower


----------



## encrypted11

Jpmboy said:


> x299, z370 and z390


The issue in my case was likely Speed Shift EPP set at an aggressive value by the BIOS causing clocks to stay noticeably closer to LFM.
I've changed the default Speedshift EPP value of 128 to 0 with Throttlestop by unclewebb and the performance issues are completely fixed.

I'm still getting the benefit of uncore underclocks (as I did on Z370) on low usage and idle with Speedshift EPP 0 + Balanced unlike Ultimate Performance that pegs the uncore at max clocks.


----------



## janreiviardo

Hi just a question, what is trefi? I see most of you are setting it to maximum value. Is higher better in performance or lower?


----------



## Vlada011

Is it possible to decrease voltage fluctation for Memory.
My memory work on 1.200V, but in HWInfo64 I see difference from 1.194-1216V.


----------



## CptSpig

janreiviardo said:


> Hi just a question, what is trefi? I see most of you are setting it to maximum value. Is higher better in performance or lower?


From the first page of this thread:

DRAM Refresh Interval: The charge stored in DRAM cells diminishes over time and must be refreshed to avoid losing data. tREFI specifies the maximum time that can elapse before all DRAM cells are refreshed. The value for tREFI is calculated according to module density. A higher number than default is more aggressive as the cells will be refreshed less frequently.

During a refresh, the memory is not available for read or write transactions. Setting the memory to refresh more often than required can impact scores negatively in memory sensitive benchmarks. It can be worth tweaking the refresh interval to a larger value for improved performance. For 24/7 use, this setting is best left at default, as real world applications do not benefit to a noticeable degree by increasing this value.


----------



## BLUuuE

janreiviardo said:


> Hi just a question, what is trefi? I see most of you are setting it to maximum value. Is higher better in performance or lower?


Higher is better performance, but if your sticks run warm and/or your mobo isn't that great, you need to set a lower value.


----------



## Jspinks020

Excellent kit still...Microcenter's Hynix kit....have had 0 issues with that one. And can drop timings on it.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

larrydavid said:


> For IO-L offsets, is a higher or lower value the more performant one? I'm running 4x8GB DIMMs and they default to 21, yet I see many here running 14.


Higher...

Give this a little read:



*http://hwbot.org/newsflash/3058_adv...ory_rtlio_on_maximus_viii_with_alexaros_guide*


----------



## mouacyk

janreiviardo said:


> Hi just a question, what is trefi? I see most of you are setting it to maximum value. Is higher better in performance or lower?


tREFI works in conjunction with tRFC (used to matter a lot more for DDR3). Even when powered on, RAM contents get corrupted over time if they do not get refreshed. tRFC is how long the refresh period is and prevents data access during this period. tREFI is the duration between each refresh cycle. It used to be a rule of thumb to keep tRFC as 3.33% of tREFI, meaning the RAM is available 96.67% of the time for access and only down 3.33% of the time for refreshes. As RAM technology got better near the end of DDR3 and most of DDR4, the modules and motherboards are able to retain contents better without incurring refresh penalties. That is why some tREFI values can be maxed on certain motherboards and some memory modules can have lower than average tRFC values. In short, tRFC/tREFI = percentage of down time for data access.

For example, my two stable configurations:

DDR3-2333MHz 10-12-12-31-2T tRFC 220 / tREF 7800 = 2.8% down time for refresh, 97.2% up time for data access. Lowering tRFC from 347 to 220 decreased latency from 55.7ns to 54.4ns and boosted slightly both read/write speeds in AIDA64.

DDR4-4000MHz-16-17-16-36-1T tRFC 288 / tREF 65000 = 0.4% down time for refresh, 99.65 up time for data access. Can't remember exact latency reduction, but it's from somewhere around 40ns to 38ns.


----------



## larrydavid

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Higher...
> 
> Give this a little read:
> 
> 
> 
> *http://hwbot.org/newsflash/3058_adv...ory_rtlio_on_maximus_viii_with_alexaros_guide*


Thanks!


----------



## NeoandGeo

larrydavid said:


> For IO-L offsets, is a higher or lower value the more performant one? I'm running 4x8GB DIMMs and they default to 21, yet I see many here running 14.


On my setup 21 latency offset gives better RTL/IOL values than 14. 

21 - 6/4/7/4 6/4/7/4 

14 - 14/4/13/4 13/4/14/4

22 *Not fully stable, difficult to boot - 5/4/6/4 6/4/5/4


----------



## Falkentyne

janreiviardo said:


> Hi just a question, what is trefi? I see most of you are setting it to maximum value. Is higher better in performance or lower?


tREFI is the maximum amount of time the RAM can do something. The RAM doing nothing incurs a latency penalty. But data corruption can occur especially if the RAM heats up alot and the motherboard is bad, if the RAM doesn't "recharge" cells often enough (by doing 'something' for too long).

tRFC is the maximum amount of time the RAM can do *nothing*.
They are best used together for best results.

Most of the time with DDR4 tRFC can be set to 270, which is the easiest value to get stable. I've done this successfully on my MSI laptop with Kingston ValueRAM and my 16 GB * 2 B-die sticks on my 9900K desktop.
tREFIs default value is based on the DDR4 speed with some formula I forgot, but it can often bet set to 32767 without problems (32768 if the maximum value is 65536).
Going to 65535 may or may not be worth it over 32767, but that runs more risk of instability in bad boards or if the RAM gets too warm. 

Changing both of these values can give a nice boost decrease to latency and a few hundred points of read and copy speed in AIDA64, sometimes as much as the next higher DDR4 speed bin.
Don't forget about Command Rate. If you can change CR from 2 to 1, this can help even more. But some systems hate a command rate of 1T.


----------



## janreiviardo

Wow! Thanks guys. It's very clear now


----------



## janreiviardo

Thanks for all the help. This will probably be my final overclock for my ram. It's really time consuming but I enjoyed doing it. I'm very much satisfied and will not go any further. There are no rams in slots CHA D0 and CHB D0 so ignore those timings.


----------



## Jspinks020

just go for cl15 timmings...and probaly run into instability trying to run a lower tRFC.


----------



## janreiviardo

Anyway I'm already happy with the results. Pretty far from the best but that's what my system is capable. It can't pass 4000mhz cl 17 xmp so ended up having to raise primary timings. But was able to raise freq to 4100


----------



## Kana Chan

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=98eee8c5ff232775b0a7508dfd7134eb&oe=5C63CCB2
Someone did a 4400 CL12 at 2.09v ( usually 4000-4200 CL12 )


----------



## Addsome

Hey guys just need some advice. Recently overclocked my ram to 3800 cl 16 with custom secondaries and some custom tertiary timings. I was stress testing with HCI memtest and got some contradicting behavior. After restarting my PC I ran 12 instances of HCI at 1150mb each since I have a 8086k with 16gb ram. I had to stop the test at around 650-750% coverage depending on the instance with 0 errors. After using my PC i closed all programs and ran 12 instances of HCI memtest again on the same restart intending to run 1000% coverage overnight. Only thing different I did this time was put 1150mb for 11 instances and put "all unused ram" default setting for the last instance as suggested to by a member from here. Just woke up and see one instance got an error at 77% coverage and 5 other instances got errors ranging from 185% coverage to even 911% coverage. The "all unused ram" setting instance does not have an error and is at 658% coverage while other error free instances are at 925% coverage. Why am I getting different results during different tests?


----------



## Jpmboy

Addsome said:


> Hey guys just need some advice. Recently overclocked my ram to 3800 cl 16 with custom secondaries and some custom tertiary timings. I was stress testing with HCI memtest and got some contradicting behavior. After restarting my PC I ran 12 instances of HCI at 1150mb each since I have a 8086k with 16gb ram. I had to stop the test at around 650-750% coverage depending on the instance with 0 errors. After using my PC i closed all programs and ran 12 instances of HCI memtest again on the same restart intending to run 1000% coverage overnight. Only thing different I did this time was put 1150mb for 11 instances and put "all unused ram" default setting for the last instance as suggested to by a member from here. Just woke up and see one instance got an error at 77% coverage and 5 other instances got errors ranging from 185% coverage to even 911% coverage. The "all unused ram" setting instance does not have an error and is at 658% coverage while other error free instances are at 925% coverage. Why am I getting different results during different tests?


either the OS requested more reserve/working ram and the system began using the pagefile (as ram to test) or the cache fouled... could be anything. Use GSAT to isolate the ram for testing and confirm that the timings are solid (2-3 hours), then try HCi or ramtest again.


----------



## Jpmboy

9700K @ 5.2 [email protected] ASUS Maximus Xi Extreme. 2080Ti 4x8GB GSkill 3600c16 kit @ 4000c16 1.45V
Been running this for a while now and it has no glitches. GSAT tested first, then RamTest.
1T is just not worth the cost on other timings and voltages.


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> 9700K @ 5.2 [email protected] ASUS Maximus Xi Extreme. 2080Ti 4x8GB GSkill 3600c16 kit @ 4000c16 1.45V
> Been running this for a while now and it has no glitches. GSAT tested first, then RamTest.
> 1T is just not worth the cost on other timings and voltages.


How does 1T affect the other timings?


----------



## BLUuuE

Jpmboy said:


> 9700K @ 5.2 [email protected] ASUS Maximus Xi Extreme. 2080Ti 4x8GB GSkill 3600c16 kit @ 4000c16 1.45V
> Been running this for a while now and it has no glitches. GSAT tested first, then RamTest.
> 1T is just not worth the cost on other timings and voltages.


I thought the RTL for each channel is meant to be at most 1 apart?

How is the performance?


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> How does 1T affect the other timings?


have to raise the primaries, and some secondaries.... end result is it actually runs slower (by gsat anyway). 1T is not a great help with doubled up dual channel (4 sticks)


BLUuuE said:


> I thought the RTL for each channel is meant to be at most 1 apart?
> 
> How is the performance?


I don't have AID64 on that rig yet. The RTLs are based on the trace return signal. These are on Auto for these timings. I'll see if it can tighten further. Just got to set the time aside for it.


----------



## Jpmboy

BLUuuE said:


> I thought the RTL for each channel is meant to be at most 1 apart?
> 
> How is the performance?


I'm not sure if this is helpful, but seeing as it is basically half what I get with 32GB 4000c14 in quad channel, it makes sense. Lol - I have too many ADI64 licenses right now (5), and 2 have expired. But it is not the only measure of Ram performance (and is very core/thread count dependent).


----------



## gammagoat

Hoping I can get some input on my Ram OC, I used a profile in my Max X and have tweaked it some. I really no very little about overclocking ram so y'all may have to dumb things down for me.

Anyway looking for anything I can improve. 4000 fails ramtest at 1.456, so I've settled on 3900 for now. I think all the relevant info is in screen shot. Ram is F4-3200C14-8GVR.

What should I do next?


----------



## CJMitsuki

@Jpmboy
What do you consider an exceptional geekbench memory score to be? I figured Id come to this thread and ask you rather than the Ryzen thread as youd probably know more about that specific question. Im trying to determine a few behaviors with Ryzen and memory timings and their impact on stability and performance since the new AGESA changed how it once behaved, for the better it seems. Im just wanting to use multiple memory tests to help me confirm what Im thinking before I attempt a write up on it. Ty


----------



## Jpmboy

gammagoat said:


> Hoping I can get some input on my Ram OC, I used a profile in my Max X and have tweaked it some. I really no very little about overclocking ram so y'all may have to dumb things down for me.
> 
> Anyway looking for anything I can improve. 4000 fails ramtest at 1.456, so I've settled on 3900 for now. I think all the relevant info is in screen shot. Ram is F4-3200C14-8GVR.
> 
> What should I do next?


post a ship of the SPD tab from CPUZ. What ram kit is that?


CJMitsuki said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> What do you consider an exceptional geekbench memory score to be? I figured Id come to this thread and ask you rather than the Ryzen thread as youd probably know more about that specific question. Im trying to determine a few behaviors with Ryzen and memory timings and their impact on stability and performance since the new AGESA changed how it once behaved, for the better it seems. Im just wanting to use multiple memory tests to help me confirm what Im thinking before I attempt a write up on it. Ty


Good question. On the 2700X, at 3466, I'd expect 5-7000? I can test on my 2700X rig... will post later.

edit: quick run with the cpu at 4GHz. A flareX 3200c14 kit I stuck in this rig last week with settings from a 3600c15 kit - work fine and gsat stable. So "exceptional" would be >8000? (PS - the 2700X makes for a very snappy rig!)

was better than I expected. 
I don't think this is the new AGESA...


----------



## CJMitsuki

Jpmboy said:


> gammagoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hoping I can get some input on my Ram OC, I used a profile in my Max X and have tweaked it some. I really no very little about overclocking ram so y'all may have to dumb things down for me.
> 
> Anyway looking for anything I can improve. 4000 fails ramtest at 1.456, so I've settled on 3900 for now. I think all the relevant info is in screen shot. Ram is F4-3200C14-8GVR.
> 
> What should I do next?
> 
> 
> 
> post a ship of the SPD tab from CPUZ. What ram kit is that?
> 
> 
> CJMitsuki said:
> 
> 
> 
> @*Jpmboy*
> What do you consider an exceptional geekbench memory score to be? I figured Id come to this thread and ask you rather than the Ryzen thread as youd probably know more about that specific question. Im trying to determine a few behaviors with Ryzen and memory timings and their impact on stability and performance since the new AGESA changed how it once behaved, for the better it seems. Im just wanting to use multiple memory tests to help me confirm what Im thinking before I attempt a write up on it. Ty
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. On the 2700X, at 3466, I'd expect 5-7000? I can test on my 2700X rig... will post later.
Click to expand...

Ty @Jpmboy I had gotten a 7995 on my first stable 4.6ghz single core setup since 1.0.0.6 and was in the dark on whether that was decent or not as there aren’t that many good memory benchmarks that are reliable.


----------



## Rydo

Hello guys I cant seem to get my latency under 40ns in AIDA64 memory benchmark any ideas on where I can improve my timings?
My ram kit is the 4000mhz 17-17-17-37 g skill kit, its an rgb kit so iv'e heard it doesn't overclock as well, wish I knew that before i bought it!
Vdimm is 1.5v
VCCSA is 1.23v
VCCIO is 1.23v


----------



## KedarWolf

Rydo said:


> Hello guys I cant seem to get my latency under 40ns in AIDA64 memory benchmark any ideas on where I can improve my timings?
> My ram kit is the 4000mhz 17-17-17-37 g skill kit, its an rgb kit so iv'e heard it doesn't overclock as well, wish I knew that before i bought it!
> Vdimm is 1.5v
> VCCSA is 1.23v
> VCCIO is 1.23v


You want to keep your VDIMM at 1.45 or under.


----------



## gammagoat

Jpmboy said:


> post a ship of the SPD tab from CPUZ. What ram kit is that?
> 
> .


Ram is G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB)

Also is there another program besides Aida64 that I can use to measure improvements?


----------



## anticommon

Hey guys, I've got a Z370 Gaming 7, 9900k @5.0, Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3600 @3733 and was wondering if anyone knows enough about this config to help me get my memory settings down. 

With my 8700k/5.1 I had a stable memory OC of 3866 while keeping the original timings on the ram (CL18-19-19-39) and a slight bump in soc voltage. Now if I increase any voltage except dram and CPU it will start being unstable very quickly. Any thoughts? Would love to see this kit back at 3866 or maybe even higher if possible. I can get all my bios settings in an hour or two when I am home if that helps. I'm such a noob when it comes to RAM OC but I wish to learn more!


----------



## mouacyk

gammagoat said:


> Hoping I can get some input on my Ram OC, I used a profile in my Max X and have tweaked it some. I really no very little about overclocking ram so y'all may have to dumb things down for me.
> 
> Anyway looking for anything I can improve. 4000 fails ramtest at 1.456, so I've settled on 3900 for now. I think all the relevant info is in screen shot. Ram is F4-3200C14-8GVR.
> 
> What should I do next?


Try tREFI at max (65K) and lower tRFC by 16 decrements. Once you get these two as far apart as possible, try lowering each secondary timing (it's gonna be a while, unless you look at mine or someone's stable timings as a guide).



Rydo said:


> Hello guys I cant seem to get my latency under 40ns in AIDA64 memory benchmark any ideas on where I can improve my timings?
> My ram kit is the 4000mhz 17-17-17-37 g skill kit, its an rgb kit so iv'e heard it doesn't overclock as well, wish I knew that before i bought it!
> Vdimm is 1.5v
> VCCSA is 1.23v
> VCCIO is 1.23v


Why not try for 17-18-18. It's the tCL of 18 that's holding your RTL/IOL timings back. At 4266 with 17-18-18-38-2T, I was getting right about 38-39ns latency, but needed 1.45v vDIMM and 1.25v for SA/IO.

I'm using 4000 16-17-17-36-1T for lower voltages (1.425v and 1.15v SA/IO) and slightly better latency of 37ns and consistent cold boots! AIDA64 is 61GB/s, 61GB/s, and 55GB/s.


----------



## Rydo

I'll try get tcl stable at 17, I couldn't get it stable last time, I shall try with 1.25v SA/IO.


----------



## Jpmboy

gammagoat said:


> Ram is G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB)
> 
> Also is there another program besides Aida64 that I can use to measure improvements?


that's a very good kit and getting 4000 should be doable. It seems to me that you have tCWL a bit tight and this may be causing other dependent timings to be on the margin too. Try keeping tWCL at 2 below CAS to start. tune from there. Best to begin by loading Raja's 4133 profile (if not done already). Then set the primaries to 16-16 as you have. 1.45V. note the RTL and IOL values the board sets, test stability. The RTL and IOLs in your screen shot seem a bit high. 4000 should be lower for both (and 7s for the IOLs). Lower FAW to 4x RRD_S. Try RTP=6
I'm working on fixing the read and copy throughput in my settings, but check the tCWL and CAS values.

strange, ATC is not reading the tWR value correctly:


----------



## encrypted11

I don't think the Raja 4133 ss b-die profile is available on boards other than the apex or gene. 

The 4133 17-18-18-38-1T profile with relaxed primaries and dram frequency for a quick boot (replace 3866 16-17-17-38-1T with 4133 17-18-18-38-1T).


----------



## encrypted11

Jpmboy said:


> that's a very good kit and getting 4000 should be doable. It seems to me that you have tCWL a bit tight and this may be causing other dependent timings to be on the margin too. Try keeping tWCL at 2 below CAS to start. tune from there. Best to begin by loading Raja's 4133 profile (if not done already). Then set the primaries to 16-16 as you have. 1.45V. note the RTL and IOL values the board sets, test stability. The RTL and IOLs in your screen shot seem a bit high. 4000 should be lower for both (and 7s for the IOLs). Lower FAW to 4x RRD_S. Try RTP=6
> I'm working on fixing the read and copy throughput in my settings, but check the tCWL and CAS values.
> 
> strange, ATC is not reading the tWR value correctly:


ATC 4.0.4 might help?
http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4).zip


----------



## Nizzen

encrypted11 said:


> I don't think the Raja 4133 ss b-die profile is available on boards other than the apex or gene.
> 
> The 4133 17-18-18-38-1T profile with relaxed primaries and dram frequency for a quick boot (replace 3866 16-17-17-38-1T with 4133 17-18-18-38-1T).


 Raja 4133 ss b-die profile does not work for me. Tested 3 different memorykits. Using z390 gene.

3600 c15
4000 c17
4266 c19

There is no boot what so ever. Running 4400 c17 is ok LOL (not prime)


----------



## gammagoat

encrypted11 said:


> I don't think the Raja 4133 ss b-die profile is available on boards other than the apex or gene.
> 
> The 4133 17-18-18-38-1T profile with relaxed primaries and dram frequency for a quick boot (replace 3866 16-17-17-38-1T with 4133 17-18-18-38-1T).


Your right, at least on my Max X it isn't present.

I don't suppose that you would mind pulling the slider down on RTL AND IO-L section so I can see what the rest of the values are?


----------



## gammagoat

Jpmboy said:


> that's a very good kit and getting 4000 should be doable. It seems to me that you have tCWL a bit tight and this may be causing other dependent timings to be on the margin too. Try keeping tWCL at 2 below CAS to start. tune from there. Best to begin by loading Raja's 4133 profile (if not done already). Then set the primaries to 16-16 as you have. 1.45V. note the RTL and IOL values the board sets, test stability. The RTL and IOLs in your screen shot seem a bit high. 4000 should be lower for both (and 7s for the IOLs). Lower FAW to 4x RRD_S. Try RTP=6
> I'm working on fixing the read and copy throughput in my settings, but check the tCWL and CAS values.
> 
> strange, ATC is not reading the tWR value correctly:


Thanks for your input, I'm working on it!

Grr this whole ram OC thing is frustrating.

Do you know of any other app besides Aida64 that I can use to test what I'm doing? I tried Intel MCL, but the window closes before I can read the output.


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> ATC 4.0.4 might help?
> http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4).zip


ugh. same thing. The Max11E is a bit different I guess.
tightened things up a bit. Stability looks good. (2h gsat also)


----------



## mouacyk

@Jpmboy Com'on, you can do <40ns, even on 32GB, especially you. Why you hanging up there?


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> @*Jpmboy* Com'on, you can do <40ns, even on 32GB, especially you. Why you hanging up there?


 sure... but at what voltage and stability cost? 


(I'm lowering voltages on the above settings - let's see what headroom there is. Gotta start from a solid base first)


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> sure... but at what voltage and stability cost?
> 
> 
> (I'm lowering voltages on the above settings - let's see what headroom there is. Gotta start from a solid base first)


Which version of Memtweakit you use?

None are working on my MXF.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hello, 

I'm not sure if it's the right thread but it's worth a try :
I plan on upgrading to a 9900K in 2019 and was wondering what would be considered the "best" motherboard for overclocking 4 sticks of RAM (I currently have a G.Skill 8Gbx4 3600 16 16 16 36 kit).
Maximus XI Extreme ?
No budget limit.

Thank you


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Which version of Memtweakit you use?
> 
> None are working on my MXF.


 v2.02.41_1025
pia that it is not shown anywhere in the GUI.



bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm not sure if it's the right thread but it's worth a try :
> I plan on upgrading to a 9900K in 2019 and was wondering what would be considered the "best" motherboard for overclocking 4 sticks of RAM (I currently have a G.Skill 8Gbx4 3600 16 16 16 36 kit).
> Maximus XI Extreme ?
> No budget limit.
> 
> Thank you


Can't go wrong with the M11E for a Z390 board. Z370 boards will also work with the 9900K


----------



## bl4ckdot

Jpmboy said:


> Can't go wrong with the M11E for a Z390 board. Z370 boards will also work with the 9900K



Thanks, do you know if the M11E is a big step up for the memory compared the M10F ?


----------



## 7ranslucen7

So far so good on my gskill pair. Anything else you guys suggest I tweak?


----------



## mouacyk

Stability looks great. Those secondaries can use some work and will bring you above 60GB/s. tCWL normally never needs to be higher than tCL, in fact it's recommended to be lower by 2 or 3.


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> Thanks, do you know if the M11E is a big step up for the memory compared the M10F ?


both are good... but remember, a lot depends on the sticks and cpu imc with a full house (4 sticks)


----------



## Jidonsu

Has anyone tried running >4000mhz on any of the new Gigabyte Z390 boards? My 9700 is running well so far at 5.2ghz 1.35V with 32gb of Gskill 3200C16 (two 2x8gb kits...don't ask) using the Z390 Aorus Master. I'm tempted to move up to either the GSkill 4000C17 or 4133C17 32gb kits, but I'm a little wary of whether it'll even run the advertised XMP speeds.


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Jidonsu said:


> Has anyone tried running >4000mhz on any of the new Gigabyte Z390 boards? My 9700 is running well so far at 5.2ghz 1.35V with 32gb of Gskill 3200C16 (two 2x8gb kits...don't ask) using the Z390 Aorus Master. I'm tempted to move up to either the GSkill 4000C17 or 4133C17 32gb kits, but I'm a little wary of whether it'll even run the advertised XMP speeds.


I just got my gskill tz 4266 19-19-19-39 sticks(2x8gb) in today. I have a 9900k @ 5.2ghz 1.35v with the aorus master. Cannot boot above 4000mhz with these. I'm currently working on tightening up the primaries, stuck at c17 right now, not sure its going to go lower than that.


----------



## Jidonsu

Edge0fsanity said:


> I just got my gskill tz 4266 19-19-19-39 sticks(2x8gb) in today. I have a 9900k @ 5.2ghz 1.35v with the aorus master. Cannot boot above 4000mhz with these. I'm currently working on tightening up the primaries, stuck at c17 right now, not sure its going to go lower than that.


Which BIOS version? That kit isn't listed as being compatible (or has been tested) with any of the Gigabyte boards on the Gskill product page. Wonder if they literally didn't test it, or it just isn't compatible with our boards. I'd be happy at 4000 C17, but the 32gb scares me. I wonder if the Gskill QVL means it just booted at 2133mhz min, or if they actually got full speed running with XMP enabled on the boards.


----------



## Edge0fsanity

Jidonsu said:


> Which BIOS version? That kit isn't listed as being compatible (or has been tested) with any of the Gigabyte boards on the Gskill product page. Wonder if they literally didn't test it, or it just isn't compatible with our boards. I'd be happy at 4000 C17, but the 32gb scares me. I wonder if the Gskill QVL means it just booted at 2133mhz min, or if they actually got full speed running with XMP enabled on the boards.


I'm on the F6 bios. I knew they weren't on the qvl when i bought them. I'm not sure it matters all that much, maybe someone else can comment on that. I think 32gb at these speeds is possible with my cpu, i was thinking about grabbing a second set of this memory depending on how 2x8gb worked out. I'm finding that i don't need a lot of sa/io for stability. Currently at 1.23/1.23, getting ready to drop them another 20mv and retest.


----------



## Chrisch

16GB Kit GSkill TridentZ 3600 C17 on a ASUS Maximus XI Gene with a 9900K


----------



## xSneak

This was the best I could do on my motherboard. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to boot 100% of the time with these settings, so i backed off the frequency to 3733 ;_; . If I had a board with a led debug maybe I could have figured out what was causing my problems. I think it was the rtl training not consistently working. My cache is at 4.8 Ghz now also since I found it wasnt stable at 4.9.


----------



## gammagoat

My latest attempt.

Every time I try to adjust RTL/IOL, im greeted with a dark screen and no boot. Is there a complimentary setting that will help with RTL/IOL?


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> ugh. same thing. The Max11E is a bit different I guess.
> tightened things up a bit. Stability looks good. (2h gsat also)


 @Jpmboy
Why doesn't Asrock timing tweaker show tRC?
Isn't tRC supposed to be equal to tRAS+tRP?


----------



## dogroll

How does this look? Just messing with the new 3200C14 G.Skill B-die kit that I bought.

This is with DRAM, VCCSA and VCCIO at 1.5V, 1.35V and 1.25V respectively. [email protected]/1.41V. I can't get the machine to boot at 4266, even with 21-21-21-42 timings. So I settled on 4133 for the optimal frequency. 

After I find the lowest stable primary timings, what secondaries and tertiaries should I target? By the way, is P95 blend worthwhile for RAM testing, or should I only stick to memtest86? And should I use the new version or 4.3.7?


----------



## jfriend00

*Suggestions for secondary timing tweaks to improve performance?*

I have an ASRock z390 Taichi, i7-9700k, overclocked to 5.1GHz and am working on overclocking the memory which is G.Skill Trident Z, 4x8GB, F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK, 3733 at 17-17-17-37. I struggled to get it to actually be stable at 3733MHz, but finally got there with 1.456 DRAM voltage. It doesn't appear I have any headroom to go to a faster frequency at the DRAM voltage I'm already at so I'm now trying to tweak secondary timings to see if I can get any faster performance out of it.

Any suggestions about what to try next to improve DRAM performance?

My earlier work on memory stability is here. These sticks are easier to get stable two at a time than they are four at a time.

Timings, Voltages, current AIDA64 benchmark attached below.


----------



## ssateneth

gammagoat said:


> My latest attempt.
> 
> Every time I try to adjust RTL/IOL, im greeted with a dark screen and no boot. Is there a complimentary setting that will help with RTL/IOL?


You tighten IOL by increasing IOL offset (which decreases IOL itself) You can hardcode IOL itself but you have to code IOL offset to the appropriate value too. If IOL + IOL offset aren't the same as before and after, it will mess with RTL and there is often no wiggle room for RTL. There is an initial IOL value too. I think IOL training starts from the initial value then goes up, but I could be wrong. Ultimately, my IOL initial value is 1, IOL on both channels is 1, and IOL offset is 27.

RTL is a different animal. You can only decrease RTL by decreasing CAS latency (2 points RTL for every 1 point CAS) and decreasing frequency. You CAN hardcode in an RTL to make sure botched trainings don't set a high auto RTL, but often, the tightest settings is your lowest setting you see on AUTO. Sometimes you can reduce a channel by 1 but often it won't work in my experience.

My RTL on Z370 Taichi on DIMM 2 and 4, 8GB sticks:

4000MHz CAS15 = RTL 58 and 60
4000MHz CAS16 = RTL 60 and 62
4266MHz CAS15 = RTL 59 and 61
4266MHz CAS16 = RTL 61 and 63


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> This was the best I could do on my motherboard. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to boot 100% of the time with these settings, so i backed off the frequency to 3733 ;_; . If I had a board with a led debug maybe I could have figured out what was causing my problems. I think it was the rtl training not consistently working. My cache is at 4.8 Ghz now also since I found it wasnt stable at 4.9.


what VSA (system agent) voltage where you running when it could not boot 100%?


Falkentyne said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> Why doesn't Asrock timing tweaker show tRC?
> Isn't tRC supposed to be equal to tRAS+tRP?


yes, that's the timings for tRC. No idea why it does not show it.


jfriend00 said:


> I have an ASRock z390 Taichi, i7-9700k, overclocked to 5.1GHz and am working on overclocking the memory which is G.Skill Trident Z, 4x8GB, F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK, 3733 at 17-17-17-37. I struggled to get it to actually be stable at 3733MHz, but finally got there with 1.456 DRAM voltage. It doesn't appear I have any headroom to go to a faster frequency at the DRAM voltage I'm already at so I'm now trying to tweak secondary timings to see if I can get any faster performance out of it.
> 
> Any suggestions about what to try next to improve DRAM performance?
> 
> My earlier work on memory stability is here. *These sticks are easier to get stable two at a time than they are four at a time*.
> 
> Timings, Voltages, current AIDA64 benchmark attached below.


that's usually the case. 4 sticks in dual channel are always more picky (even than 4 sticks in quad channel - makes sense).


----------



## 6950X

What is the fastest DDR4 people are obtaining on X99, with a i7 6950X. I’m only buying a 32GB kit, 4x8GB.

I have found it is pretty common to get DDR4 3600Mhz stable?

What about DDR4 3866Mhz? 

Motherboard is a MSI X99 Godlike Carbon. It says it supports DDR4 3400+OC

I’ve got a i7 6950X on the way, and I’m buying a ddr4 kit next. I want the fastest DDR4 possible. I play a few titles that benefit from fast ddr4. 

Thanks.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> what VSA (system agent) voltage where you running when it could not boot 100%?


It was originally set to Auto so it was managed by the BIOS automatically and it was:

VCCSA 1.368
VCCIO 1.264

The process I followed was (not touching those two voltages above) to raise the DRAM voltage until I got memory stability and then lower VCCSA and VCCIO as far as I could to maintain stability. I was able to lower them a bunch so the motherboard was just being overly aggressive with them I guess. And, lowering them helped reduce my CPU temps a bunch under load. There does appear to be a bit of a coupling between VCCSA and DRAM voltage because as I kept lowering VCCSA, I would lose stability and then I could get stability back by either raising one of VCCSA or DRAM voltage a bit. I'm not sure where the best balance between DRAM voltage and VCCSA is? As of my current settings in the screen shot in my previous post, I could lower DRAM voltage a bit and raise VCCSA a bit and still have stability. That would probably raise my CPU temps a bit, but get the DRAM voltage not so high. Not sure which is the best tradeoff? Since I have stability, I was more focusing on seeing if I could get any better memory performance by tweaking the second memory timings, but I'm not sure what else to do from where I am.


----------



## Jpmboy

6950X said:


> What is the fastest DDR4 people are obtaining on X99, with a i7 6950X. I’m only buying a 32GB kit, 4x8GB.
> 
> *I have found it is pretty common to get DDR4 3600Mhz stable?*
> 
> What about DDR4 3866Mhz?
> Motherboard is a MSI X99 Godlike Carbon. It says it supports DDR4 3400+OC
> I’ve got a i7 6950X on the way, and I’m buying a ddr4 kit next. I want the fastest DDR4 possible. I play a few titles that benefit from fast ddr4.
> Thanks.


is that a statement or a question. 3400 stable is the max common I've seen on x99. I have my 6950X/R5E-10 at 3400 c13 with 1.45V 8x8GB. Been like that since the platform launched, what, 2-3 years ago?

get a 3200c14 B-die kit. higher freqs are not useful on x99


----------



## NeoandGeo

I was barely able to squeak by running a 32GB (8x4GB) 3200c14 B Die kit on x99, this was after about a dozen BIOS revisions, and I wasn't able to tweak the kit beyond that, mostly stable setting. ASRock x99m Fatal1ty/3.1 board. Before this I had the kit in the original revision of the same board which lacked the "/3.1" moniker. It would refuse to cooperate at anything above 2666c13, even with the final BIOS version.

The same kit I am running at 4040c16 with much tighter secondaries/Tertiary/RTL|IOL on [email protected]|Asus Maximus Hero X. Depending on the support of your x99 board I would think the 3200c14 kit would be about your best bet


----------



## tistou77

The G.Skill RGB are as good in OC as non RGBs now, it will seem

G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 Go (2x 8 Go) DDR4 4400 MHz CL18-19-19-39 1.40v
G.Skill Trident Z Royal 16 Go (2x 8 Go) DDR4 4600 MHz CL18-22-22-42 1.45v (Argent)
Etc...

Currently I have a 2 kits G.Skill 4400 19-19-19-39 (1.40v) at 4000 17-19-19-39 at 1.37v,
I could probably do better with a kit 4400 18-19-19-39 1.40v or 4600 18-22-22-42 1.45v


----------



## encrypted11

encrypted11--i9900K @5.2/4.8---F4-4400C19-8GTZSW----4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----1.45v---IO 1.012---SA 1.05v---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour 

VDIMM isn't tuned.

I'm surprised this IMC would run 4133MHz C17-1T at stock SA voltages and IO at approximately a ~6% boost over stock with a 200MHz Fclk increase over Intel defaults. (SA 1000MHz)  
Great board, color me impressed. But some of the auto overvolts on memory training retrys are questionable behaviors I don't agree with. 
(boosting SA/IO to 1.35 ish on failed training.. the AI stuff?).


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> encrypted11--i9900K @5.2/4.8---F4-4400C19-8GTZSW----4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----1.45v---IO 1.012---SA 1.05v---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour
> 
> VDIMM isn't tuned.
> 
> I'm surprised this IMC would run 4133MHz C17-1T at stock SA voltages and IO at approximately a ~6% boost over stock with a 200MHz Fclk increase over Intel defaults. (SA 1000MHz)
> Great board, color me impressed. But some of the auto overvolts on memory training retrys are questionable behaviors I don't agree with.
> (boosting SA/IO to 1.35 ish on failed training.. the AI stuff?).


don;t be surprised. the gene is very good at ram OC. :thumb:


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- i9 9900K @5.1/4.7 -- 4x8GB F4-3200C14-8GVK -- 4133Mhz -- 18-18-18-34-2T -- 1.44v -- IO 1.23 -- SA 1.23v -- HCI MemTest 1000%

New motherboard, Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme


----------



## SirWaWa

Jpmboy said:


> both are good... but remember, a lot depends on the sticks and cpu imc with a full house (4 sticks)


is there any advantage going with 4 sticks? is it more difficult to keep stable? is it still like the older days all the way back to nehalem, the less sticks the better?


----------



## kignt

What iol latency do 3600mhz cl-15/16/17 sticks default value?


----------



## Jspinks020

3600 would be plenty and that little bit of headroom you are wanting. but as well just buy the rated speed kit anymore. There's kits that don't oc very well at all, this is one of them.


----------



## Nizzen

Gene IS very good 😄

G.skill 4000 c17 sticks:
https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_10_2018/post-42975-0-06583000-1540856320.png


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> The G.Skill RGB are as good in OC as non RGBs now, it will seem
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 Go (2x 8 Go) DDR4 4400 MHz CL18-19-19-39 1.40v
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal 16 Go (2x 8 Go) DDR4 4600 MHz CL18-22-22-42 1.45v (Argent)
> Etc...
> 
> Currently I have a 2 kits G.Skill 4400 19-19-19-39 (1.40v) at 4000 17-19-19-39 at 1.37v,
> I could probably do better with a kit 4400 18-19-19-39 1.40v or 4600 18-22-22-42 1.45v


if this is for the posts above it - he is on x99, not x299


SirWaWa said:


> is there any advantage going with 4 sticks? is it more difficult to keep stable? is it still like the older days all the way back to nehalem, the less sticks the better?


4x8GB has been easier to OC than 2x26GB sticks... but the difference is narrowing some on newer platforms (like z390)


kignt said:


> What iol latency do 3600mhz cl-15/16/17 sticks default value?


that depends on the board and platform. What does the board's AUTO rules set it to?


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> if this is for the posts above it - he is on x99, not x299


Not it was for me


----------



## HBizzle

Posting this here as I think this is a memory issue, also in the 9900K and MEG ACE thread due to support from those potentially as well: 

I am getting Kernel and a WHEA error while playing COD BLOPS 4 and wondering if the game is exposing an unstable overclock or memory issue. I suspect this is a memory issue as the game is not that CPU intensive, though the WHEA error referred to processor core. Looking for other thoughts on it as well. Running a 32GB kit seems to stress this mobo at the clocks etc I am at, wondering if I should up the voltage some more as I am at 1.36 on the RAM at 3733 17-17-17-37 on a TridentZ RGB kit. In the past when I was getting my OC to 5.0 this kit caused issues if I didn't have its XMP and SA and IO set high automatically.

First the Kernel Error which caused a momentary freeze in game, but I could still hear audio:

_*The maximum file size for session "Circular Kernel Context Logger" has been reached. As a result, events might be lost (not logged) to file "C:\Windows\system32\WDI\LogFiles\ShutdownCKCL.etl". The maximum files size is currently set to 20971520 bytes.

Session "Circular Kernel Context Logger" stopped due to the following error: 0xC0000188 *_

The other error was a WHEA error that caused my whole system to freeze for a second, and then resumed right after:

_*A corrected hardware error has occurred.

Reported by component: Processor Core
Error Source: Corrected Machine Check
Error Type: Internal parity error
Processor APIC ID: 0

The details view of this entry contains further information.*_

Picture of each error from the system log. This was the system error reporter showed each time.

Win10 1803, haven't received 1809 update yet.

CPU:9900K @ 5.0 @ 1.250 volts

Mobo: MSI Z390 MEG ACE

RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR - Running it downclocked at 3733 17-17-17-37 @ 1.36 and SA and IO are at 1.35

Video Card: ASUS Turbo RTX 2080ti at stock settings.

Bios screenshots below but can screen some other settings. 


































Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated.


----------



## KedarWolf

HBizzle said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Posting this here as I think this is a memory issue, also in the 9900K and MEG ACE thread due to support from those potentially as well:
> 
> I am getting Kernel and a WHEA error while playing COD BLOPS 4 and wondering if the game is exposing an unstable overclock or memory issue. I suspect this is a memory issue as the game is not that CPU intensive, though the WHEA error referred to processor core. Looking for other thoughts on it as well. Running a 32GB kit seems to stress this mobo at the clocks etc I am at, wondering if I should up the voltage some more as I am at 1.36 on the RAM at 3733 17-17-17-37 on a TridentZ RGB kit. In the past when I was getting my OC to 5.0 this kit caused issues if I didn't have its XMP and SA and IO set high automatically.
> 
> First the Kernel Error which caused a momentary freeze in game, but I could still hear audio:
> 
> _*The maximum file size for session "Circular Kernel Context Logger" has been reached. As a result, events might be lost (not logged) to file "C:\Windows\system32\WDI\LogFiles\ShutdownCKCL.etl". The maximum files size is currently set to 20971520 bytes.
> 
> Session "Circular Kernel Context Logger" stopped due to the following error: 0xC0000188 *_
> 
> The other error was a WHEA error that caused my whole system to freeze for a second, and then resumed right after:
> 
> _*A corrected hardware error has occurred.
> 
> Reported by component: Processor Core
> Error Source: Corrected Machine Check
> Error Type: Internal parity error
> Processor APIC ID: 0
> 
> The details view of this entry contains further information.*_
> 
> Picture of each error from the system log. This was the system error reporter showed each time.
> 
> Win10 1803, haven't received 1809 update yet.
> 
> CPU:9900K @ 5.0 @ 1.250 volts
> 
> Mobo: MSI Z390 MEG ACE
> 
> RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR - Running it downclocked at 3733 17-17-17-37 @ 1.36 and SA and IO are at 1.35
> 
> Video Card: ASUS Turbo RTX 2080ti at stock settings.
> 
> Bios screenshots below but can screen some other settings.
> 
> Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated.


Your CPU voltage is really low and your VCCIO and SA are way too high. You might want to raise your CPU voltage and lower your SA and VCCIO below 1.25v.


----------



## jfriend00

HBizzle said:


> Posting this here as I think this is a memory issue, also in the 9900K and MEG ACE thread due to support from those potentially as well:
> 
> I am getting Kernel and a WHEA error while playing COD BLOPS 4 and wondering if the game is exposing an unstable overclock or memory issue. I suspect this is a memory issue as the game is not that CPU intensive, though the WHEA error referred to processor core. Looking for other thoughts on it as well. Running a 32GB kit seems to stress this mobo at the clocks etc I am at, wondering if I should up the voltage some more as I am at 1.36 on the RAM at 3733 17-17-17-37 on a TridentZ RGB kit. In the past when I was getting my OC to 5.0 this kit caused issues if I didn't have its XMP and SA and IO set high automatically.
> 
> 
> 
> Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated.


I have a similar memory kit on a Z390 ASRock Taichi motherboard (mine's Trident Z 4x8GB 17-17-17-35 @ 3733). I had to give my DRAM more voltage (1.44V) than the XMP specified and I could then lower the SA and IO voltages (to around 1.25V) from your levels to get memory stability at 3733. Lowering the SA and IO voltages also reduced the CPU temperature under load quite a bit.

I would recommend testing the memory separately to isolate whether it is indeed a memory issue or not. I've used both RAMTest and PassMark's MemTest86 (booted from USB). I like running the memory test by booting directly from a USB stick when things aren't very stable because it removes the possibility of corrupting your Windows installation due to an unstable overclock. PassMark's MemTest86 makes it easy to do the boot from USB. With MemTest86, I could see which test was the one to fail and could then optimize to start with that particular test to assess stability much quicker than running all tests. Once I found a point I thought was stable, I could then run all tests on all CPUs overnight to verify. RAMTest is spoken of highly as a good test of your RAM and it runs in Windows (small purchase fee). I use it for further verification.


----------



## KedarWolf

jfriend00 said:


> I have a similar memory kit on a Z390 ASRock Taichi motherboard (mine's Trident Z 4x8GB 17-17-17-35 @ 3733). I had to give my DRAM more voltage (1.44V) than the XMP specified and I could then lower the SA and IO voltages (to around 1.25V) from your levels to get memory stability at 3733. Lowering the SA and IO voltages also reduced the CPU temperature under load quite a bit.
> 
> I would recommend testing the memory separately to isolate whether it is indeed a memory issue or not. I've used both RAMTest and PassMark's MemTest86 (booted from USB). I like running the memory test by booting directly from a USB stick when things aren't very stable because it removes the possibility of corrupting your Windows installation due to an unstable overclock. PassMark's MemTest86 makes it easy to do the boot from USB. With MemTest86, I could see which test was the one to fail and could then optimize to start with that particular test to assess stability much quicker than running all tests. Once I found a point I thought was stable, I could then run all tests on all CPUs overnight to verify. RAMTest is spoken of highly as a good test of your RAM and it runs in Windows (small purchase fee). I use it for further verification.


memtest86 will only tell you if a RAM stick is bad, really doesn't test stability.

RAM Test DOES test stability but you want to let it run overnight to at least 15000%. it can find errors even 10000% in.

But their issue is too low CPU voltage and/or too high VCCIO and SA. VCCIO and SA should be kept under 1.25v and often more is not better. I had to keep mine 1.23v or under for RAM stability.

People need as high as 1.32v or higher for 5 GHZ on the CPU though many can go lower. But that CPU voltage is really low for 5 GHZ. 

Also try LLC no lower than 5. :h34r-smi

Edit: Search this thread under my username in the search options. I have AutoHotKey code for scripts for the free and paid versions of HCI MemTest. It opens the program 16 times for each thread of a 9900k using 90% of the available RAM, the HCI instances spaced out in rows evenly, starts all 16 automatically.


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> memtest86 will only tell you if a RAM stick is bad, really doesn't test stability.


I'm not sure where you got that notion from. It worked very well for me to determine stability and would often find issues only after several passes and those issues were fixed with proper voltage (so not a bad RAM stick at all). 

Please note there are a lot of different products called MemTest86 that may have all originated from the same original source, but are now different. I was using the one from PassMark which is regularly maintained and updated by them (some of the others have not been updated in many years). It absolutely determined stability for me.


----------



## Hydroplane

What are some good settings to start off with? I've got the 3200 CL14 1.35v Trident Z. Right now I set them at 3600, 14 timings (stock), 1.47V. I've been testing by running a custom prime95 test with 28gb of ram used, leaving 4gb for the system. It seems to tell me pretty quickly if my settings are unstable. 

What's the max safe voltage on these sticks? Hoping to get at least 5 years of life out of them.


----------



## CptSpig

KedarWolf said:


> memtest86 will only tell you if a RAM stick is bad, really doesn't test stability.
> 
> RAM Test DOES test stability but you want to let it run overnight to at least 15000%. it can find errors even 10000% in.
> 
> But their issue is too low CPU voltage and/or too high VCCIO and SA. VCCIO and SA should be kept under 1.25v and often more is not better. I had to keep mine 1.23v or under for RAM stability.
> 
> People need as high as 1.32v or higher for 5 GHZ on the CPU though many can go lower. But that CPU voltage is really low for 5 GHZ.
> 
> Also try LLC no lower than 5. :h34r-smi
> 
> Edit: Search this thread under my username in the search options. I have AutoHotKey code for scripts for the free and paid versions of HCI MemTest. It opens the program 16 times for each thread of a 9900k using 90% of the available RAM, the HCI instances spaced out in rows evenly, starts all 16 automatically.





jfriend00 said:


> I'm not sure where you got that notion from. It worked very well for me to determine stability and would often find issues only after several passes and those issues were fixed with proper voltage (so not a bad RAM stick at all).
> 
> Please note there are a lot of different products called MemTest86 that may have all originated from the same original source, but are now different. I was using the one from PassMark which is regularly maintained and updated by them (some of the others have not been updated in many years). It absolutely determined stability for me.


Keaderwolf is absolutely right memtest86 is not good to test stability. You need to use HCI memtest, Ram test or Gsat for stability. If you are using memtest86 your memory is not stable.


----------



## GeneO

KedarWolf said:


> Also try LLC no lower than 5.



Why do you say that? I'm curious.


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> Keaderwolf is absolutely right memtest86 is not good to test stability. You need to use HCI memtest, Ram test or Gsat for stability. If you are using memtest86 your memory is not stable.


Where do you get this info from that MemTest86 (from Passmark) does not test memory stability?

I had significant memory stability issues and using only MemTest86 was able to find them and eventually find a set of voltages that would make them stable. Then, I confirmed later with RamTEST and Prime95 that it also said things were stable. But, MemTest86 (from Passmark, as there are a lot of different variations of MemTest86) did indeed catch my memory instability and allow me to find the right settings to make things stable as confirmed by two other stability tests. 

The reason I used MemTest86 for my initial work is that I can boot it directly from a USB stick and avoid taking any chance at corrupting Windows while working on a system that is not yet fully stable. I find this is a huge advantage.


----------



## KedarWolf

GeneO said:


> Why do you say that? I'm curious.



LLC affects how much the CPU voltage drops under load. On Asus boards, LLC 5 give a small amount of vdroop, the drop in the CPU voltage. So when you're stress testing your CPU you'll drop from say 1.35v to about 1.32v. vdroop affects the stability of your PC when stress testing it. LLC 5 or 6 is recommended but I always used 5.


----------



## HBizzle

KedarWolf said:


> memtest86 will only tell you if a RAM stick is bad, really doesn't test stability.
> 
> RAM Test DOES test stability but you want to let it run overnight to at least 15000%. it can find errors even 10000% in.
> 
> But their issue is too low CPU voltage and/or too high VCCIO and SA. VCCIO and SA should be kept under 1.25v and often more is not better. I had to keep mine 1.23v or under for RAM stability.
> 
> People need as high as 1.32v or higher for 5 GHZ on the CPU though many can go lower. But that CPU voltage is really low for 5 GHZ.
> 
> Also try LLC no lower than 5. :h34r-smi
> 
> Edit: Search this thread under my username in the search options. I have AutoHotKey code for scripts for the free and paid versions of HCI MemTest. It opens the program 16 times for each thread of a 9900k using 90% of the available RAM, the HCI instances spaced out in rows evenly, starts all 16 automatically.


Comp is stable running BFV for like 8 hour straight. Good CPU stress test with a real world load. Done a few Prime 95 26.6 passes and did fine. I am going to check on adjusting the ram voltage up and the sa/io down. Edit: Also on the MSI LLC Mode 4 is a flat level for it. It is setup differently from the other boards.


----------



## GeneO

KedarWolf said:


> LLC affects how much the CPU voltage drops under load. On Asus boards, LLC 5 give a small amount of vdroop, the drop in the CPU voltage. So when you're stress testing your CPU you'll drop from say 1.35v to about 1.32v. vdroop affects the stability of your PC when stress testing it. LLC 5 or 6 is recommended but I always used 5.



Well, duh, I know that. 


Recommended by who and why? I know of no reason not to set LLC lower than 5. If there is I would like to know. 


Because Intel limits the VID to about 1.3v on my chip in adaptive, this limits how low I can set the additional adaptive voltage with any effect. Setting additional voltage lower than 1.3v has no effect on the voltage delivered to my cores. Because of this, LLC5 and above delivers more voltage under load than my chip needs for stability. I can therefore lower the load vcore only by lowering LLC to get more droop, or use negative offsets. Negative offsets do not work for me, so I use LLC4 which gives me just the amount of droop I need to get a vcore that is minimum needed for stability.


----------



## HBizzle

jfriend00 said:


> I have a similar memory kit on a Z390 ASRock Taichi motherboard (mine's Trident Z 4x8GB 17-17-17-35 @ 3733). I had to give my DRAM more voltage (1.44V) than the XMP specified and I could then lower the SA and IO voltages (to around 1.25V) from your levels to get memory stability at 3733. Lowering the SA and IO voltages also reduced the CPU temperature under load quite a bit.
> 
> I would recommend testing the memory separately to isolate whether it is indeed a memory issue or not. I've used both RAMTest and PassMark's MemTest86 (booted from USB). I like running the memory test by booting directly from a USB stick when things aren't very stable because it removes the possibility of corrupting your Windows installation due to an unstable overclock. PassMark's MemTest86 makes it easy to do the boot from USB. With MemTest86, I could see which test was the one to fail and could then optimize to start with that particular test to assess stability much quicker than running all tests. Once I found a point I thought was stable, I could then run all tests on all CPUs overnight to verify. RAMTest is spoken of highly as a good test of your RAM and it runs in Windows (small purchase fee). I use it for further verification.


Thanks for this suggestion. Did this with a slight uptick in vcore to 1.260 and so far has passed CB and P95 26.6 1344k for a bit. Going to try some other stressors and then memtest over night.


----------



## CJMitsuki

jfriend00 said:


> CptSpig said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keaderwolf is absolutely right memtest86 is not good to test stability. You need to use HCI memtest, Ram test or Gsat for stability. If you are using memtest86 your memory is not stable.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this info from that MemTest86 (from Passmark) does not test memory stability?
> 
> I had significant memory stability issues and using only MemTest86 was able to find them and eventually find a set of voltages that would make them stable. Then, I confirmed later with RamTEST and Prime95 that it also said things were stable. But, MemTest86 (from Passmark, as there are a lot of different variations of MemTest86) did indeed catch my memory instability and allow me to find the right settings to make things stable as confirmed by two other stability tests.
> 
> The reason I used MemTest86 for my initial work is that I can boot it directly from a USB stick and avoid taking any chance at corrupting Windows while working on a system that is not yet fully stable. I find this is a huge advantage.
Click to expand...

Memtest86 can be used to find errors due to instability but is outdated and inconsistent. I agree that booting from usb is a huge advantage for the very reasons you stated. However, HCIMemtest Deluxe gives you the same ability as well as other useful tools and is much more consistent with much better support. I would check into that as a better option than Memtest86.


----------



## jfriend00

CJMitsuki said:


> Memtest86 can be used to find errors due to instability but is outdated and inconsistent. I agree that booting from usb is a huge advantage for the very reasons you stated. However, HCIMemtest Deluxe gives you the same ability as well as other useful tools and is much more consistent with much better support. I would check into that as a better option than Memtest86.


There are several versions of Memtest86 from different folks. The one from Passmark is not outdated and is revised regularly with an update only a couple weeks ago. I don't honestly know how it compares to others (everyone seems to have their favorite with little real evidence), but a carte blanche statement that memtest86 does not test stability is simply not the case especially when applied to the Passmark version. It worked quite well for me. You are obviously free to have your own preference.

For those interested, the actively developed Passmark version of MemTest86 is here and you can see recent update history here.


----------



## pm1109

Anyone here use G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16gb 3200 MHz with 14-14-14-34 timings..
What can I reasonably achieve with Overclocking this RAM?
Looking for at least 4000 MHz
Using 9900k with Gigabyte z390 Master

Thanks


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> Where do you get this info from that MemTest86 (from Passmark) does not test memory stability?
> 
> I had significant memory stability issues and using only MemTest86 was able to find them and eventually find a set of voltages that would make them stable. Then, I confirmed later with RamTEST and Prime95 that it also said things were stable. But, MemTest86 (from Passmark, as there are a lot of different variations of MemTest86) did indeed catch my memory instability and allow me to find the right settings to make things stable as confirmed by two other stability tests.
> 
> The reason I used MemTest86 for my initial work is that I can boot it directly from a USB stick and avoid taking any chance at corrupting Windows while working on a system that is not yet fully stable. I find this is a huge advantage.





jfriend00 said:


> There are several versions of Memtest86 from different folks. The one from Passmark is not outdated and is revised regularly with an update only a couple weeks ago. I don't honestly know how it compares to others (everyone seems to have their favorite with little real evidence), but a carte blanche statement that memtest86 does not test stability is simply not the case especially when applied to the Passmark version. It worked quite well for me. You are obviously free to have your own preference.
> 
> For those interested, the actively developed Passmark version of MemTest86 is here and you can see recent update history here.


Bro, use what ever you like! We are just letting you know that there are better testing methods available. :thumb:


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> Bro, use what ever you like! We are just letting you know that there are better testing methods available.


Can you point to any reference other than people's opinion that shows what are the best memory testing stability tools and why? I've seen a dozen different recommendations, lots of passed-down lore, lots of opinions and nothing quantitative or analytical. 

Just looking for some facts, not just passed-on lore. And, though some people seem to rave about RamTEST, it never found anything that MemTest86 (by Passmark) or Prime95 hadn't already found. Just reporting how things went for me. As a former CEO of mine used to say, "If all we have is opinions, we're going with mine otherwise bring me some facts".

There are older versions of MemTest86 that have not been updated in many, many years. I was not recommending that, but the Passmark version which is maintained.

I wanted to also run stressapptest as a complement to Prime95, but couldn't find an easy way to boot it off a USB stick (it's Linux so that complicates things as you have to boot Linux off the USB first an then have stressapptest on the USB in the Linux file system). Nobody seems to offer a turn key way to set that up.


----------



## KedarWolf

jfriend00 said:


> There are several versions of Memtest86 from different folks. The one from Passmark is not outdated and is revised regularly with an update only a couple weeks ago. I don't honestly know how it compares to others (everyone seems to have their favorite with little real evidence), but a carte blanche statement that memtest86 does not test stability is simply not the case especially when applied to the Passmark version. It worked quite well for me. You are obviously free to have your own preference.
> 
> For those interested, the actively developed Passmark version of MemTest86 is here and you can see recent update history here.


looks like the Passmark version is pretty good. Did some research. 

Is the free version as good as the paid one and what are the differences?

$44 USD, that's a definite nope.


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> looks like the Passmark version is pretty good. Did some research.
> 
> Is the free version as good as the paid one and what are the differences?
> 
> $44 USD, that's a definite nope.


You can see the differences between versions here. Other than some ECC error injection stuff (which wasn't relevant to me), it doesn't look like there's any difference in the core testing capabilities between the free and paid version. The differences appear to be more in generating reports and automating tests or running tests remotely (like something an IT staff might use). 

One pro for me was that it turnkey to make a bootable USB with everything on it. Just run a program and point it at the target USB stick. Then boot off it.


----------



## warbucks

pm1109 said:


> Anyone here use G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16gb 3200 MHz with 14-14-14-34 timings..
> What can I reasonably achieve with Overclocking this RAM?
> Looking for at least 4000 MHz
> Using 9900k with Gigabyte z390 Master
> 
> Thanks


I'm using the 32GB kit and currently am running 4000Mhz @ 17-17-17-37-2T on my 9900k @ 5.1Ghz and 4.7Ghz cache.


----------



## jfriend00

warbucks said:


> I'm using the 32GB kit and currently am running 4000Mhz @ 17-17-17-37-2T on my 9900k @ 5.1Ghz and 4.7Ghz cache.


What are your voltages for DRAM, VCCIO, VCCSA? What memory tests have you run to prove memory stability under stress. Can you post a screenshot of all your memory timings (secondary and tertiary)?


----------



## warbucks

jfriend00 said:


> What are your voltages for DRAM, VCCIO, VCCSA? What memory tests have you run to prove memory stability under stress. Can you post a screenshot of all your memory timings (secondary and tertiary)?


Screenshot attached for ram timings. DRAM voltage is 1.44V, VCCIO/VCCSA are both at 1.25V (I believe I can get this a tad bit lower).

For stability tests, I've done Prime 95 "1344" short test for two hours and HCI Memtest 400%. Gaming wise, BFV and PUBG sessions well over 5-6 hours at a time. 

I've yet to tweak any other memory timings yet. Will likely attempt these on the weekend.


----------



## Hydroplane

warbucks said:


> I'm using the 32GB kit and currently am running 4000Mhz @ 17-17-17-37-2T on my 9900k @ 5.1Ghz and 4.7Ghz cache.


Those are pretty good settings especially for 1.44v, I will have to try those on mine. Different platform, so I will be curious as to the results.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Does anyone know if 16 tFAW is hard to stabilize? Upping the voltage dram/vccio/ssa doesn't do anything.


----------



## pm1109

warbucks said:


> I'm using the 32GB kit and currently am running 4000Mhz @ 17-17-17-37-2T on my 9900k @ 5.1Ghz and 4.7Ghz cache.


What actual voltages are you using ?
Did you change any other settings apart from the standard timings?
Thanks


----------



## warbucks

pm1109 said:


> What actual voltages are you using ?
> Did you change any other settings apart from the standard timings?
> Thanks


In my previous post I listed the voltages:

DRAM voltage is 1.44V, VCCIO/VCCSA are both at 1.25V

No other timings have been changed outside of the primaries.


----------



## pm1109

warbucks said:


> In my previous post I listed the voltages:
> 
> DRAM voltage is 1.44V, VCCIO/VCCSA are both at 1.25V
> 
> No other timings have been changed outside of the primaries.


Thanks mate....Will give these settings a go..Hopefully they are stable for me


----------



## pm1109

warbucks said:


> Screenshot attached for ram timings. DRAM voltage is 1.44V, VCCIO/VCCSA are both at 1.25V (I believe I can get this a tad bit lower).
> 
> For stability tests, I've done Prime 95 "1344" short test for two hours and HCI Memtest 400%. Gaming wise, BFV and PUBG sessions well over 5-6 hours at a time.
> 
> I've yet to tweak any other memory timings yet. Will likely attempt these on the weekend.


Tried your settings and tested with Ram Test and they were not stable
Suggest you try Ram Test to see if they are actually really stable


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Can you point to any reference other than people's opinion that shows what are the best memory testing stability tools and why? I've seen a dozen different recommendations, lots of passed-down lore, lots of opinions and nothing quantitative or analytical.
> 
> Just looking for some facts, not just passed-on lore. And, though some people seem to rave about RamTEST, it never found anything that MemTest86 (by Passmark) or Prime95 hadn't already found. Just reporting how things went for me. As a former CEO of mine used to say, "If all we have is opinions, we're going with mine otherwise bring me some facts".
> 
> There are older versions of MemTest86 that have not been updated in many, many years. I was not recommending that, but the Passmark version which is maintained.
> 
> *I wanted to also run stressapptest as a complement to Prime95, but couldn't find an easy way to boot it off a USB stick (it's Linux so that complicates things as you have to boot Linux off the USB first an then have stressapptest on the USB in the Linux file system). Nobody seems to offer a turn key way to set that up*.


google puppy linux. I have a USB stick set to boot this and then you can run GSAT in linux... or just enable Windows Bash (linux subsystem within win10). google windows bash.


----------



## warbucks

pm1109 said:


> Tried your settings and tested with Ram Test and they were not stable
> Suggest you try Ram Test to see if they are actually really stable


I've done HCI Memtest 400% as well as GSAT and they are stable. You may need to adjust your voltages further. The IMC on your chip may not be up for it either.


----------



## HBizzle

jfriend00 said:


> I have a similar memory kit on a Z390 ASRock Taichi motherboard (mine's Trident Z 4x8GB 17-17-17-35 @ 3733). I had to give my DRAM more voltage (1.44V) than the XMP specified and I could then lower the SA and IO voltages (to around 1.25V) from your levels to get memory stability at 3733. Lowering the SA and IO voltages also reduced the CPU temperature under load quite a bit.
> 
> I would recommend testing the memory separately to isolate whether it is indeed a memory issue or not. I've used both RAMTest and PassMark's MemTest86 (booted from USB). I like running the memory test by booting directly from a USB stick when things aren't very stable because it removes the possibility of corrupting your Windows installation due to an unstable overclock. PassMark's MemTest86 makes it easy to do the boot from USB. With MemTest86, I could see which test was the one to fail and could then optimize to start with that particular test to assess stability much quicker than running all tests. Once I found a point I thought was stable, I could then run all tests on all CPUs overnight to verify. RAMTest is spoken of highly as a good test of your RAM and it runs in Windows (small purchase fee). I use it for further verification.


So folks I tried Jfriend's settings and ran HCI MemTest off a bootable USB overnight and into today and got to 700% pass rate on it. Do folks think it would be worth it to try to get to 1500%? This would likely take a 24 hr run and not sure I care enough to do it lol.


----------



## Jidonsu

warbucks said:


> I've done HCI Memtest 400% as well as GSAT and they are stable. You may need to adjust your voltages further. The IMC on your chip may not be up for it either.


Interestingly, those look identical to the XMP settings on my Gskill 4000mhz C17 32GB kit. The only difference is that tFAW on mine is at 48, and the kit was rated for 1.35V. It passed HCI Memtest 1000% without a hitch at 1.35V. I'm thinking I can bump the voltage and push the ram faster?


----------



## kignt

warbucks said:


> I've done HCI Memtest 400% as well as GSAT and they are stable. You may need to adjust your voltages further. The IMC on your chip may not be up for it either.


Gsat speeds (results of read?/copy) are low. Earlier posts noted this is because the test is using some pagefile. Solution is to set slightly lesser amount of ram.


----------



## jfriend00

HBizzle said:


> So folks I tried Jfriend's settings and ran HCI MemTest off a bootable USB overnight and into today and got to 700% pass rate on it. Do folks think it would be worth it to try to get to 1500%? This would likely take a 24 hr run and not sure I care enough to do it lol.


Ideally, you would find the lowest DRAM voltage that gives you stability. Once you have what you think is a stable situation, completely document all the voltages and timings (including all the secondary and tertiary timings (using ASRock Memory Configurator). Now, you should be able to get back to this configuration again if need be after some more fiddling.

Then experiment with lowering the DRAM voltage and doing shorter memory tests to see if you have stability. When you lose stability, go back up a bit in DRAM voltage. Then, do a longer stability test (overnight) to make sure. If you want to tweak for more speed, then you can do some memory speed measurements with AIDA64 and then you can tweak some secondary timings to further optimize for speed (tREFI and tRFC are probably the most impactful). Once you're good with the secondary timing tweaks and the AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers, then I'd run one more overnight memory test to just be sure.

During my tweaking process, I found it really useful to have a little log book (just a yellow notepad) that I documented every single change I made in the BIOS. If things went south after a change, I always knew how to get back where I was previously. I also resisted changing lots of things at once (because if things go south, you have no idea which change caused it).


----------



## HBizzle

jfriend00 said:


> Ideally, you would find the lowest DRAM voltage that gives you stability. Once you have what you think is a stable situation, completely document all the voltages and timings (including all the secondary and tertiary timings (using ASRock Memory Configurator). Now, you should be able to get back to this configuration again if need be after some more fiddling.
> 
> Then experiment with lowering the DRAM voltage and doing shorter memory tests to see if you have stability. When you lose stability, go back up a bit in DRAM voltage. Then, do a longer stability test (overnight) to make sure. If you want to tweak for more speed, then you can do some memory speed measurements with AIDA64 and then you can tweak some secondary timings to further optimize for speed (tREFI and tRFC are probably the most impactful). Once you're good with the secondary timing tweaks and the AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers, then I'd run one more overnight memory test to just be sure.
> 
> During my tweaking process, I found it really useful to have a little log book (just a yellow notepad) that I documented every single change I made in the BIOS. If things went south after a change, I always knew how to get back where I was previously. I also resisted changing lots of things at once (because if things go south, you have no idea which change caused it).


I want to get to this kits true speed, 4000 17-17-17-37, which I may try this weekend or maybe even tonight before I go to bed. The lower SA and IO voltage is a plus. Thanks for your advice and suggestion.


----------



## jfriend00

HBizzle said:


> I want to get to this kits true speed, 4000 17-17-17-37, which I may try this weekend or maybe even tonight before I go to bed. The lower SA and IO voltage is a plus. Thanks for your advice and suggestion.


I didn't realize you weren't at 4000 yet. Yes, work on the main speed and primary timings first before any of the other optimizations.


----------



## NIK1

I have 16 gigs GSkill 3600 memRGB Oc'd to 3866 running stable at 15 15 15 32 2n and wonder if its worth the while to tweak some of the Third timing settings.Does lowering twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg do anything to any effect.Not sure if these two are good to lower,I thought I read about it here somewhere.Is there any other third timings that are worth lowering I should be looking at..Any recommendations appreciated.


----------



## NIK1

Can someone let me know how to save a screenshot of the ASRock Timing Configurator memory settings..I don't see a save thing on it anywhere..


----------



## djgar

NIK1 said:


> Can someone let me know how to save a screenshot of the ASRock Timing Configurator memory settings..I don't see a save thing on it anywhere..


You're kidding? There's a SAVE button under DRAM Frequency ....


----------



## CptSpig

NIK1 said:


> Can someone let me know how to save a screenshot of the ASRock Timing Configurator memory settings..I don't see a save thing on it anywhere..





djgar said:


> You're kidding? There's a SAVE button under DRAM Frequency ....


There is no screen shot button. Just hit print screen and use Windows Paint to edit the screen shot. Simple. :thumb:


----------



## jfriend00

NIK1 said:


> I have 16 gigs GSkill 3600 memRGB Oc'd to 3866 running stable at 15 15 15 32 2n and wonder if its worth the while to tweak some of the Third timing settings.Does lowering twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg do anything to any effect.Not sure if these two are good to lower,I thought I read about it here somewhere.Is there any other third timings that are worth lowering I should be looking at..Any recommendations appreciated.


Folks could probably help you better if you posted a screen shot of all your memory timings (typically using the ASRock Timing Configurator) so we can see what things are at. Usually, after you established stability at the desired speed and primaries, you would start by tweaking tREFI and tRFC.


----------



## djgar

djgar said:


> You're kidding? There's a SAVE button under DRAM Frequency ....





CptSpig said:


> There is no screen shot button. Just hit print screen and use Windows Paint to edit the screen shot. Simple. :thumb:


DOH! Save settings, not image ...


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> Can you point to any reference other than people's opinion that shows what are the best memory testing stability tools and why? I've seen a dozen different recommendations, lots of passed-down lore, lots of opinions and nothing quantitative or analytical.
> 
> Just looking for some facts, not just passed-on lore. And, though some people seem to rave about RamTEST, it never found anything that MemTest86 (by Passmark) or Prime95 hadn't already found. Just reporting how things went for me. As a former CEO of mine used to say, "If all we have is opinions, we're going with mine otherwise bring me some facts".
> 
> There are older versions of MemTest86 that have not been updated in many, many years. I was not recommending that, but the Passmark version which is maintained.
> 
> I wanted to also run stressapptest as a complement to Prime95, but couldn't find an easy way to boot it off a USB stick (it's Linux so that complicates things as you have to boot Linux off the USB first an then have stressapptest on the USB in the Linux file system). Nobody seems to offer a turn key way to set that up.


Just real world testing. I have used all of the programs I mentioned as well as memtest86 and Gsat is the best for memory. I like HCI memtest for memory and cache testing. I use Aida64 to see my final speed. :thumb:
vdimm @ 1.4100, vccio @ 1.0100 SA @ 0.800


----------



## mouacyk

CptSpig said:


> There is no screen shot button. Just hit print screen and use Windows Paint to edit the screen shot. Simple. :thumb:


If the Configurator app is in focus, *ALT* + Print Screen will capture just that window into clipboard. Afterward, can paste into Paint and save without editing.


----------



## jfriend00

*Windows Snipping Tool for screenshots in Win10*



mouacyk said:


> If the Configurator app is in focus, *ALT* + Print Screen will capture just that window into clipboard. Afterward, can paste into Paint and save without editing.


Or, if you're running Windows 10 with recent updates, the Snipping Tool is a built-in app that lets you capture any screenshot, either the whole windows or any arbitrary rectangle of the screen and you can then copy it to the clipboard to paste into something else or for posting here, you can save it to a file which you can attach to a message.

To get to it easily, just pull up the Windows menu and type snip and then it will appear and you can select it to launch it.


----------



## CptSpig

mouacyk said:


> If the Configurator app is in focus, *ALT* + Print Screen will capture just that window into clipboard. Afterward, can paste into Paint and save without editing.





jfriend00 said:


> Or, if you're running Windows 10 with recent updates, the Snipping Tool is a built-in app that lets you capture any screenshot, either the whole windows or any arbitrary rectangle of the screen and you can then copy it to the clipboard to paste into something else or for posting here, you can save it to a file which you can attach to a message.
> 
> To get to it easily, just pull up the Windows menu and type snip and then it will appear and you can select it to launch it.


:thumb:


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> Just real world testing. I have used all of the programs I mentioned as well as memtest86 and Gsat is the best for memory. I like HCI memtest for memory and cache testing. I use Aida64 to see my final speed. :thumb:
> vdimm @ 1.4100, vccio @ 1.0100 SA @ 0.800


Wow. I'm trying to figure out how you got those AIDA64 memory speeds. That is really fast. I'm running 4x8GB 3733 17-17-17-37 on an ASRock Taichi Z390 with an i7-9700k overclocked to 5.1GHz and my transfer speeds are about 1/2 of yours. Obviously, you're running 4000 and slightly lower latency, but that doesn't account for the huge speed difference. Here is my data:


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> Wow. I'm trying to figure out how you got those AIDA64 memory speeds. That is really fast. I'm running 4x8GB 3733 17-17-17-37 on an ASRock Taichi Z390 with an i7-9700k overclocked to 5.1GHz and my transfer speeds are about 1/2 of yours. Obviously, you're running 4000 and slightly lower latency, but that doesn't account for the huge speed difference. Here is my data:


Your memory is running in dual channel vs my memory running in quad channel. My CPU has a faster IMC than the 9700 you have installed allowing better overclocks. Your memory is running well for the setup.


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> Your memory is running in dual channel vs my memory running in quad channel. My CPU has a faster IMC than the 9700 you have installed allowing better overclocks. Your memory is running well for the setup.


I was under the impression that quad channel only made a 10-15% difference (keeping everything else constant), but I can see your $2000 processor must be what's making the main difference. Nice setup.


----------



## djgar

jfriend00 said:


> I was under the impression that quad channel only made a 10-15% difference (keeping everything else constant), but I can see your $2000 processor must be what's making the main difference. Nice setup.


With my cheap old 4-channel 6900K I get a bit more than 10-15% with slower memory ...


----------



## NIK1

CptSpig said:


> There is no screen shot button. Just hit print screen and use Windows Paint to edit the screen shot. Simple. :thumb:


 Thanks a bunch.....


----------



## Jidonsu

This site is such a great resource. I was able to get my G.Skill Trident Z RGB 4 x 8GB 4000mhzC17 kit (F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR) to work at 4133mhz 17-17-17-37 at 1.45V. Ran Ramtest for an hour. 9700K at 5.2ghz core and 4.8 uncore at 1.35V with SA and IO both at 1.25V. Haven't really touched any of the secondary and tertiary timings with exception of tRFC. Any suggestions?


----------



## NIK1

NIK1 said:


> I have 16 gigs GSkill 3600 memRGB Oc'd to 3866 running stable at 15 15 15 32 2n and wonder if its worth the while to tweak some of the Third timing settings.Does lowering twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg do anything to any effect.Not sure if these two are good to lower,I thought I read about it here somewhere.Is there any other third timings that are worth lowering I should be looking at..Any recommendations appreciated.


Does anything here look like it can go tighter in the third timings or anywhere else..The main timings are the lowest I can get them to..1n is a no go I tried though with higher dram volts and even went to 1.350 with Sa and Io volts to no avail.This setup runs at 1.47v DRam with Io at 1.200v and Sa at 1.225v .


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Does anything here look like it can go tighter in the third timings or anywhere else..The main timings are the lowest I can get them to..1n is a no go I tried though with higher dram volts and even went to 1.350 with Sa and Io volts to no avail.This setup runs at 1.47v DRam with Io at 1.200v and Sa at 1.225v .


what about something simple like 1T? Helps dual channel quite a bit...


----------



## HBizzle

jfriend00 said:


> I didn't realize you weren't at 4000 yet. Yes, work on the main speed and primary timings first before any of the other optimizations.


Well upped DRAM to 1.46 and kept SA and IO to 1.26. Booted but didn't past a Realbench stress test at 4000 17-17-17-37.


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> what about something simple like 1T? Helps dual channel quite a bit...


What Voltages should I up to try to get 1T to boot..I fiddled with it before and it was a No Go,but that was a long while ago..


----------



## jfriend00

HBizzle said:


> Well upped DRAM to 1.46 and kept SA and IO to 1.26. Booted but didn't past a Realbench stress test at 4000 17-17-17-37.


It's always hard to say what is causing the problem. In the end, you just have to experiment with a bunch of things. It could be it can't quite do those primary timings at 4000. Or, it could need more voltage? Or, it could be that some secondary or tertiary timings that were "trained" at your slower speed are now causing problems. I've found that when raising the speed, I sometimes need to first boot at a much slower speed (the BIOS will then retrain the secondary/tertiary timings). Then, reboot and set to your 4000. The big difference in speed will cause the BIOS to completely retrain the auto secondary/tertiary timings and will sometimes get things to work. But, if it can't quite handle the 17-17-17-37 at 4000, no amount of training will fix that. You'd have to raise those primary timings. It could also just need more voltage, though you're getting pretty high already. It just takes lots of experimentation.


----------



## KedarWolf

jfriend00 said:


> It's always hard to say what is causing the problem. In the end, you just have to experiment with a bunch of things. It could be it can't quite do those primary timings at 4000. Or, it could need more voltage? Or, it could be that some secondary or tertiary timings that were "trained" at your slower speed are now causing problems. I've found that when raising the speed, I sometimes need to first boot at a much slower speed (the BIOS will then retrain the secondary/tertiary timings). Then, reboot and set to your 4000. The big difference in speed will cause the BIOS to completely retrain the auto secondary/tertiary timings and will sometimes get things to work. But, if it can't quite handle the 17-17-17-37 at 4000, no amount of training will fix that. You'd have to raise those primary timings. It could also just need more voltage, though you're getting pretty high already. It just takes lots of experimentation.


I'm really liking my Z390 Aorus Xtreme, CPU at 5.1GHZ, cache at 4.7GHZ, memory at 4133MHZ 17-17-17-32 2T Prime95 and Ram Test stable. My Maximus X Formula which was the top tier four DIMM Asus Z370 board would only do 5GHZ/4.5GHZ, 3900 RAM 17-17-17-32 2T.

So a huge improvement!


----------



## Jidonsu

HBizzle said:


> Well upped DRAM to 1.46 and kept SA and IO to 1.26. Booted but didn't past a Realbench stress test at 4000 17-17-17-37.


Do you mind seeing if it's stable at 19-19-19-39? I'm asking since that's the only 4000mhz G.Skill kit that's approved for the Meg Ace. I'm wondering if G.Skill couldn't get 4 dimms stable at 17-17-17-37 either, since that mobo is not on G.Skill's QVL list for the 4000C17 4x8gb kit, but the 2x8gb kit is.


----------



## jfriend00

Jidonsu said:


> Do you mind seeing if it's stable at 19-19-19-39? I'm asking since that's the only 4000mhz G.Skill kit that's approved for the Meg Ace. I'm wondering if G.Skill couldn't get 4 dimms stable at 17-17-17-37 either, since that mobo is not on G.Skill's QVL list for the 4000C17 4x8gb kit, but the 2x8gb kit is.


I know from my own experience with an ASRock Z390 Taichi that getting 4x8 stable is a lot harder than 2x8. I required quite a bit more voltage than the XMP indicated to get 4x8 stable, whereas 2x8 worked automatically with the XMP settings. I would guess it's more likely voltage than timing. If the chips are XMP rated at 17-17-17-37, then they probably will do that at some voltage with the right other timings.


----------



## Jidonsu

jfriend00 said:


> I know from my own experience with an ASRock Z390 Taichi that getting 4x8 stable is a lot harder than 2x8. I required quite a bit more voltage than the XMP indicated to get 4x8 stable, whereas 2x8 worked automatically with the XMP settings. I would guess it's more likely voltage than timing. If the chips are XMP rated at 17-17-17-37, then they probably will do that at some voltage with the right other timings.


It’s tricky for sure. That same kit flew through 1000% HCI Memtest for me at XMP, which is at 1.35v. I’m on the Aorus Master, which is on the G.Skill QVL. Sometimes I think it’s black magic even though it’s basically all physics. So many variables to control. The same kit just passed through 5000% of Ram Test at 4133mhz with 1.45V at 16-17-17-37, and I’m testing overnight to see if there are errors later.


----------



## intulor

KedarWolf said:


> I'm really liking my Z390 Aorus Xtreme, CPU at 5.1GHZ, cache at 4.7GHZ, memory at 4133MHZ 17-17-17-32 2T Prime95 and Ram Test stable. My Maximus X Formula which was the top tier four DIMM Asus Z370 board would only do 5GHZ/4.5GHZ, 3900 RAM 17-17-17-32 2T.
> 
> So a huge improvement!


Just wanted to say thanks. Been following your progress in this thread and I've been able to use your numbers to push my 4000mhz 18-19-19-39 kit to 4133mhz 17-17-17-32 stable. Tried various things on my own to get various configurations stable and wasn't having much luck, so I used ones you posted and everything fell in place.


----------



## KedarWolf

intulor said:


> Just wanted to say thanks. Been following your progress in this thread and I've been able to use your numbers to push my 4000mhz 18-19-19-39 kit to 4133mhz 17-17-17-32 stable. Tried various things on my own to get various configurations stable and wasn't having much luck, so I used ones you posted and everything fell in place.


Nice!! Glad to help.


----------



## KedarWolf

intulor said:


> Just wanted to say thanks. Been following your progress in this thread and I've been able to use your numbers to push my 4000mhz 18-19-19-39 kit to 4133mhz 17-17-17-32 stable. Tried various things on my own to get various configurations stable and wasn't having much luck, so I used ones you posted and everything fell in place.


Here's my final 5.1GHZ CPU, 4.7GHZ cache, 4133MHZ memory 17-17-17-32 2T.

Try on the Xtreme or Master.

BIOS screens below in Spoiler.



Spoiler


----------



## Jidonsu

This might be the best I can do for now. It's at 4133 16-17-17-37 with 1.45V DRAM and 1.25 IO/SA using the 4000 17-17-17-37 kit. IIRC, the current secondary and tertiary timings are from the training at 4200. Retraining at 4133 causes errors in Ram Test before 100%, but these settings can run to 18000%. I'm hesitant to touch anything else.

9700K at 5.2 core and 4.8 cache at 1.35V on the Aorus Master.


----------



## intulor

KedarWolf said:


> Here's my final 5.1GHZ CPU, 4.7GHZ cache, 4133MHZ memory 17-17-17-32 2T.
> 
> Try on the Xtreme or Master.
> 
> BIOS screens below in Spoiler.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Tried on the Aorus Master. Would not boot with tCWL at 13, had to up to 16. Everything else seemed to take. Will see if still stable.


----------



## Falkentyne

jfriend00 said:


> Where do you get this info from that MemTest86 (from Passmark) does not test memory stability?
> 
> I had significant memory stability issues and using only MemTest86 was able to find them and eventually find a set of voltages that would make them stable. Then, I confirmed later with RamTEST and Prime95 that it also said things were stable. But, MemTest86 (from Passmark, as there are a lot of different variations of MemTest86) did indeed catch my memory instability and allow me to find the right settings to make things stable as confirmed by two other stability tests.
> 
> The reason I used MemTest86 for my initial work is that I can boot it directly from a USB stick and avoid taking any chance at corrupting Windows while working on a system that is not yet fully stable. I find this is a huge advantage.





CptSpig said:


> Keaderwolf is absolutely right memtest86 is not good to test stability. You need to use HCI memtest, Ram test or Gsat for stability. If you are using memtest86 your memory is not stable.





KedarWolf said:


> memtest86 will only tell you if a RAM stick is bad, really doesn't test stability.
> 
> RAM Test DOES test stability but you want to let it run overnight to at least 15000%. it can find errors even 10000% in.
> 
> But their issue is too low CPU voltage and/or too high VCCIO and SA. VCCIO and SA should be kept under 1.25v and often more is not better. I had to keep mine 1.23v or under for RAM stability.
> 
> People need as high as 1.32v or higher for 5 GHZ on the CPU though many can go lower. But that CPU voltage is really low for 5 GHZ.
> 
> Also try LLC no lower than 5. :h34r-smi
> 
> Edit: Search this thread under my username in the search options. I have AutoHotKey code for scripts for the free and paid versions of HCI MemTest. It opens the program 16 times for each thread of a 9900k using 90% of the available RAM, the HCI instances spaced out in rows evenly, starts all 16 automatically.


Ok come on, ladies. Stop fighting over which memory test program is more bad than the next one 
RAM testing is a fickle thing. It's just like being prime95 stable in small FFT and then watching Battlefield 5 crash faster than your Spitfire plane did. Different systems and configurations will respond differently, and RAM testing is what puts hair on your chests (or makes your breasts turn into Valkyrie size from Gauntlet 1). IMC doesn't help things. Use whatever works for you. 

I like memtest86 so I can see if I will trash my OS trying to load windows or not. Then some prime95 custom blend FFT's. I'm not a fan of opening up multiple processes to test RAM, but if I ever find I need to use Gsat (yuck, I hate linux, period....I still have nightmares trying to firmware upgrade my Benq monitor with an OS I never used in my life..makes me feel like I'm learning C++ again--which I ..didn't do good in), or HCI, then I'll do what works. If memtest86 works for you, use it. If Gsat works better, use that. But no need to tell people 'program X is bad', just say that it doesn't work well for you.


----------



## KedarWolf

Falkentyne said:


> Ok come on, ladies. Stop fighting over which memory test program is more bad than the next one
> RAM testing is a fickle thing. It's just like being prime95 stable in small FFT and then watching Battlefield 5 crash faster than your Spitfire plane did. Different systems and configurations will respond differently, and RAM testing is what puts hair on your chests (or makes your breasts turn into Valkyrie size from Gauntlet 1). IMC doesn't help things. Use whatever works for you.
> 
> I like memtest86 so I can see if I will trash my OS trying to load windows or not. Then some prime95 custom blend FFT's. I'm not a fan of opening up multiple processes to test RAM, but if I ever find I need to use Gsat (yuck, I hate linux, period....I still have nightmares trying to firmware upgrade my Benq monitor with an OS I never used in my life..makes me feel like I'm learning C++ again--which I ..didn't do good in), or HCI, then I'll do what works. If memtest86 works for you, use it. If Gsat works better, use that. But no need to tell people 'program X is bad', just say that it doesn't work well for you.


I said later Passmark Memtest86 looks like a decent program. and I've tried it, it takes a long time to run, but does detect RAM instabilities. It used to be the old version of memtest86 was only good to find a bad stick which is true.

So you berating us for talking about which ram testing program to use is pretty pointless.


----------



## Nephalem89

Hello one question I'm search my stability for my ddr4 4000 cl 16 t1... It's impossible for my low vccio and vccsa actually is in 1,15v an 1,40 v ram where is the safe voltage for vccio and vccsa for 24/7 thanks!!


----------



## Falkentyne

KedarWolf said:


> I said later Passmark Memtest86 looks like a decent program. and I've tried it, it takes a long time to run, but does detect RAM instabilities. It used to be the old version of memtest86 was only good to find a bad stick which is true.
> 
> So you berating us for talking about which ram testing program to use is pretty pointless.


I was half trolling if you look at exactly what I said.


----------



## Timur Born

The original post says that HCI Memtest 1000% is the "Gold Standard", but I often see errors popping up later than that. So what to make of that?


----------



## jfriend00

Timur Born said:


> The original post says that HCI Memtest 1000% is the "Gold Standard", but I often see errors popping up later than that. So what to make of that?


Stability testing is not a perfect science. Some stability issues are "heat driven". For example, SDRAM chips which are essentially a giant grid of tiny capacitors for storing 0's or 1's can perform slightly differently as they get warmer. Leakage currents get a little bit larger as the chip heats up which can influence the required refresh timings. Similarly, the memory controller built into the processor can also have temperature induced issues. So, if you have less than ideal case airflow and the RAM chips are allowed to heat up over time, then that could be one reason that something would fail long after a normal stability test would conclude stable or not. It's a bummer there are no standard thermocouples on the RAM chips themselves, but you could at least look at your motherboard temperature over time and see if there's any evidence that maybe you need more case airflow. Also, it would be worth knowing what temperatures your processor cores are running at since they are in the same package as the IMC (memory controller).

Keep in mind there are also different levels of stability proof to aspire to. Some think that they should aspire to any possible torture test for however long they feel like running it. Certainly if you can meet that bar, you're probably good. But, that also may cause you to dial back performance lower than need be because your actual load in real life use of the computer will never challenge the computer the way the extreme stability test does.

If the only failures you see are with high torture tests run for a long time and you can't solve that, you have to decide what is real world for you.


----------



## intulor

For those of you using the stress test app, are you monitoring system sensors during the test? I'd really like to find something for linux that gives as much information as hwinfo64 but I'm not having much luck. LMsensors isn't giving me much of anything, unless I just failed at answering yes/no questions during setup


----------



## Nizzen

Nephalem89 said:


> Hello one question I'm search my stability for my ddr4 4000 cl 16 t1... It's impossible for my low vccio and vccsa actually is in 1,15v an 1,40 v ram where is the safe voltage for vccio and vccsa for 24/7 thanks!!


For me with x299 and z390, I running vccio and vccsa @ 1.25v.


----------



## Timur Born

So 1000% is just an arbitrary value and nothing gold about it?! Especially since the time to do 1000% is different on different hardware.

Anyway, I just bought Karhu Ramtest, because it is said to find errors/instabilities quicker. What's the opinion on that?


----------



## Jidonsu

Timur Born said:


> So 1000% is just an arbitrary value and nothing gold about it?! Especially since the time to do 1000% is different on different hardware.
> 
> Anyway, I just bought Karhu Ramtest, because it is said to find errors/instabilities quicker. What's the opinion on that?


In my personal experience, Ram Test found error within a few minutes. The same error took far long on HCI Memtest. I still let Ram Test (18000%) run over night though to confirm that it was good.


----------



## Nephalem89

encrypted11 said:


> encrypted11--i9900K @5.2/4.8---F4-4400C19-8GTZSW----4133Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T----1.45v---IO 1.012---SA 1.05v---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour
> 
> VDIMM isn't tuned.
> 
> I'm surprised this IMC would run 4133MHz C17-1T at stock SA voltages and IO at approximately a ~6% boost over stock with a 200MHz Fclk increase over Intel defaults. (SA 1000MHz) /forum/images/smilies/cool.gif
> Great board, color me impressed. But some of the auto overvolts on memory training retrys are questionable behaviors I don't agree with.
> (boosting SA/IO to 1.35 ish on failed training.. the AI stuff?).


HI! @encrypted11 I have a problem... I have the same memories and the same plate that you... But I put the profile of Raja and it is impossible to use it always gives me blue screenshots all the time and I can not do OC to ram I'm using the latest version of the gene BIOS but not if it goes well thanks a lot!


----------



## jfriend00

Timur Born said:


> So 1000% is just an arbitrary value and nothing gold about it?! Especially since the time to do 1000% is different on different hardware.
> 
> Anyway, I just bought Karhu Ramtest, because it is said to find errors/instabilities quicker. What's the opinion on that?


The website for Karhu Ramtest lists these probabilities that you've found any errors that exist according to test coverage:

Coverage ≤ 100 %: 64,57 %
Coverage ≤ 200 %: 75,79 %
Coverage ≤ 400 %: 82,68 %
Coverage ≤ 800 %: 91,34 %
Coverage ≤ 1600 %: 96,06 %
Coverage ≤ 3200 %: 98,03 %
Coverage ≤ 6400 %: 99,41 %

I don't know how he calculates this, but if it's to be believed, you will definitely want to test beyond 1000%. When I'm at what I think is a stable point, I let it run overnight to be sure. I ran one last night to 14,500%. I will probably also run memtest86 overnight also because I think it does some unique tests and one of it's tests (#6) tends to find issues in my RAM setup. 

One of the problems with memory testing is that timing related errors can be hard to find. Memory has timings that control things like how many often you can select a row in the same rank or how quickly you can select another row in the same rank or how quickly you can do A after B after C. Because the memory test software likely doesn't know the layout of these ranks (that's something the memory controller manages), its kind of hoping to "hit" these worst case tests by accident over time to prove that everything works. And, another reason to run for a long time is to get to the max RAM temperature under load since some performance things degrade with temperature.

If you're in the middle of tweaking and want to know whether your new adjustment is more stable than what you had before, RAMTest will often show you a problem in a few minutes (that's been my experience), but proving stability takes a lot longer than that.


----------



## encrypted11

Nephalem89 said:


> HI! @encrypted11 I have a problem... I have the same memories and the same plate that you... But I put the profile of Raja and it is impossible to use it always gives me blue screenshots all the time and I can not do OC to ram I'm using the latest version of the gene BIOS but not if it goes well thanks a lot!


MCH Full check disabled, MRC Fastboot disabled, Realtime Memory training disabled, try a manual toggle between maximus tweak mode 1 and 2.

Set a manual SA/IO voltage. Defaults are approximately 1.35V SA/IO at 4133MHz. Try VDIMM 1.45 before you begin optimising voltages and timing.


----------



## Nephalem89

encrypted11 said:


> Nephalem89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HI! @encrypted11 I have a problem... I have the same memories and the same plate that you... But I put the profile of Raja and it is impossible to use it always gives me blue screenshots all the time and I can not do OC to ram I'm using the latest version of the gene BIOS but not if it goes well thanks a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> MCH Full check disabled, MRC Fastboot disabled, Realtime Memory training disabled, try a manual toggle between maximus tweak mode 1 and 2.
> 
> Set a manual SA/IO voltage. Defaults are approximately 1.35V SA/IO at 4133MHz. Try VDIMM 1.45 before you begin optimising voltages and timing.
Click to expand...

 Thanks for you fast response one more question what is your bios version? Thanks and happy new year!


----------



## sdch

Maybe this will be useful for someone, I rarely see 2x16GB here. Dual rank Samsung B-Die, two sticks from a retired X99 system (4x16GB F4-3200C14Q-64GTZSW (2016 Aug)). Decent results, voltages are conservative, but I'm out of time to experiment further.

Also, anyone else find AIDA64 to be inconsistent? Varies a lot from one boot to the next, especially latency (+/- 1 ns).


----------



## jfriend00

sdch said:


> Maybe this will be useful for someone, I rarely see 2x16GB here. Dual rank Samsung B-Die, two sticks from a retired X99 system (4x16GB F4-3200C14Q-64GTZSW (2016 Aug)). Decent results, voltages are conservative, but I'm out of time to experiment further.
> 
> Also, anyone else find AIDA64 to be inconsistent? Varies a lot from one boot to the next, especially latency (+/- 1 ns).


Pretty nice memory benchmark numbers. I'm curious which of the secondary timings you tweaked yourself vs. the BIOS set automatically? I'm working on optimizing a 16-16-16-35 4x8 G.Skill set at 4700 right now and trying to figure out which secondary timings will make a meaningful difference if I tweak them?


----------



## encrypted11

Nephalem89 said:


> Thanks for you fast response one more question what is your bios version? Thanks and happy new year!


0057 mirrored by [email protected] on hwbot. It's better in memory compared to the stable release that hasn't been updated for awhile.


----------



## sdch

*Intel Memory Overclocking Quick Reference*

*Quick Gains:*

Raise frequency, but not to the detriment of CL. Target a frequency/CL combination that makes sense for both transfer rate and latency.
Lower CL (drives RTLs lower), and set tRCD/tRP accordingly.
Lower CR if possible (drives RTLs lower), but not to the detriment of other timings.
Lower tRFC.
Lower tFAW (and tRRD_S with it, see below).
Raise tREFI.
Then work on the other timings. Tight 2nd/3rd timings can have meaningful results.

*Voltages:*

DRAM Voltage (VDIMM): 1.20 - 1.45V. Some XMP kits (G.Skill B-Die) go up to 1.50V. Above this is at your own risk.
VCCIO/VCCSA: Use this table as a starting point. (Source)

*Timings and "Rules":*

*Primary Timings:*

CL: Start with a safe frequency/CL combination and adjust from there.
tRCD/tRP: Try 0-2 above CL (Samsung B-die) or 1-5 above CL (other ICs).
tRAS: CL + tRCD + tRTP (Source) or CL + tRCD + 2 (Source and Diagram). Min: 28. (Source: ASRock UEFI description)
CR: Try 1, otherwise leave at 2.

*Secondary Timings:*

tWR: Leave on Auto and control by tWRPRE until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 16, Try: 9-16)
tRFC: Lower as much as possible. JEDEC default for 8Gb ICs: 0.350*XXXX/2 for DDR4-XXXX. (Raja: 350-360, Try: <=default)
tRRD_L: Min spacing is 6. (Raja: 6, Try: 6-8)
tRRD_S: Min spacing is 4. (Raja: 4, Try: 4-6)
tWTR: Min spacing is possibly 4. (Raja: 4, Try: 1-4)
tWTR_L: Leave on Auto and control by tWRRD_sg until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 8, Try: 6-8)
tWTR_S: Leave on Auto and control by tWRRD_dg until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 6, Try: 1-6)
tRTP: Min spacing is supposed to be 4, but this seems to actually be 6 with modern systems due to memory densities. (Raja: 8, Try: 6-8)
tFAW: Min is 4*tRRD_S. (Raja: 16-24, Try: 16-28)
tCWL/tWL: Set to 0-3 lower than CL. (Raja: tCWL = CL, Try: 9-16)

*Third Timings:*

tREFI: Raise as much as possible. JEDEC default: 7.8*XXXX/2 for DDR4-XXXX. (Raja: 11400-16667, Try: default, 2*default, or max it out)
tCKE: JEDEC sets this to 5-7. (Raja: 6-7, Try: Auto or 6-7)
For all the remaining third timings, I just start with Raja's values and adjust from there. Remember that tWTR_L/tWTR_S are controlled by tWRRD_sg/tWRRD_dg. Raja's values (and ranges to try in parenthesis):

tRDRD_sg: 6 (6-7)
tRDRD_dg: 4 (4)
tRDRD_dr: 6 (5-6)
tRDRD_dd: 6 (5-6)
tRDWR_sg: 15 (12-16)
tRDWR_dg: 15 (12-16)
tRDWR_dr: 16 (12-16)
tRDWR_dd: 16 (12-16)
tWRRD_sg: 35 (<35) (drives tWTR_L)
tWRRD_dg: 29-35 (<35) (drives tWTR_S)
tWRRD_dr: 8 (5-8)
tWRRD_dd: 8 (5-8)
tWRWR_sg: 6 (6-7)
tWRWR_dg: 4 (4)
tWRWR_dr: 8 (5-8)
tWRWR_dd: 8 (5-8)

*Misc. Timings:*

tWRPRE: 4 + tWR + tCWL. Min: 23, Max: 96. (Source) (Raja: 31)
tRC: tRAS + tRP. (only on some UEFIs, e.g. Gigabyte)

*General:*
Another trick is to see what the default/JEDEC timings are for DDR4-2133/DDR4-2400/DDR4-2666/etc. by setting everything to Auto (except frequency) and taking some notes. Many of the values end up being the same as the above and it gives insight to what can be adjusted further.

*RTLs/IOLs:*
RTLs/IOLs should align on their own, if not it's a training issue. If VDIMM/VCCIO/VCCSA adjustments don't help, you can also try the following, in order, one at a time:

Manually set IOL Offsets, then save and reboot and inspect RTLs/IOLs
Manually set IOLs, then save and reboot and inspect RTLs
Manually set RTLs, and hope the system still boots
Remember, if you change memory frequency, CL, or CR, the RTLs change so you'd have to start these steps over from Auto.

*Links:*

*Recommended Software:*

ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.4 (bottom of page, works on non-ASRock boards too)
ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.3 (try this one if 4.0.4 doesn't work)
TestMem5 with extreme config by anta777 (run TM5.exe as admin, load config & exit, restart)
Karhu RAM Test (enable cache testing, test 3200%+) (recommended by The Stilt)
*Other Software:*

Mem TweakIt (follow the "OC Pack" link, ASUS/ROG only but more timings are displayed)
MemTestHelper (for HCI MemTest, test 500%+)
GSAT (stressapptest) (stressapptest -M XXXXX -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700, set XXXXX to about 90% of memory)
*Specifications:*

JEDEC Standard - DDR4 SDRAM - JESD79-4B (June 2017)
Samsung 4Gb E-die DDR4 SDRAM
Samsung 8Gb B-die DDR4 SDRAM
Samsung DDR4 SDRAM Specification
*Guides:*

integral's DDR4 OC Guide (great guide, recommended)
[email protected]: Maximus VI Series UEFI Guide for Overclocking (nice starting point, especially posts #3 and #4)
Kaby Lake OC Guide (scroll down to the VCCIO/VCCSA section for typical voltages)
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About SDRAM (Memory): But Were Afraid to Ask (technical deep dive by Raja)
[email protected]'s [GUIDE] Skylake Memory Timings on Asus Motherboards (useful information for third timings)
Skylake overclocking (same as above but cleaned up)
XA's B-Die Guide (similar to [email protected]'s info)
ROG Maximus XI Thread (some newer info from [email protected] in the thread comments)
OC Guide PDF (linked from here)

edit: forum upgrade fix


----------



## mouacyk

sdch said:


> Maybe this will be useful for someone, I rarely see 2x16GB here. Dual rank Samsung B-Die, two sticks from a retired X99 system (4x16GB F4-3200C14Q-64GTZSW (2016 Aug)). Decent results, voltages are conservative, but I'm out of time to experiment further.
> 
> Also, anyone else find AIDA64 to be inconsistent? Varies a lot from one boot to the next, especially latency (+/- 1 ns).


That is some nice work on the manual timings. Definitely referencing this for future upgrade to 2x16GB.


----------



## jfriend00

sdch said:


> Intel Memory Overclocking Quick Reference


Thank you greatly for the summary. I've read this whole thread through, but not enough sunk in. Probably need to read it again now that will understand more. I've got four sticks of memory (4x8) rated at 17-17-17-37 and apparently, it simply won't go faster than 3733 at any voltage or timings, even with loose timings and 1.5V (I think partly because it's four sticks) so I'm working on optimizing it at 3733. It could also be that the IMC just can't go faster with four sticks. So far, I've gotten it to 16-16-16-34 at 3733, reduced tWR and reduced tRFC and am seeing meaningful improvements in AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers. Lots more timings to tweak. Thanks for the help and I can use your timings and a few others as an idea of things to try.


----------



## SgtRotty

what is the formula for tREFI? how do we set that up? im assuming it has to do with the size of your ram 16gb, 32gb, 64gb?ive seen people with 32gb have it set to 60000+ and 16gb setup with 32000+ is it like a LoadLineCalibration?


----------



## Jidonsu

Do you guys typically retest your system stability after ensuring your ram alone is stable? 

I'm asking because I was able to get my TridentZ RGB 4000mhz 17-17-17-37 1.35V to 4133mhz 16-17-17-37 at 1.45V. It did Ram Test through 18000%. It also did 8 hours of Realbench last night (but I only set it to use half the ram). I retested Prime95 1344K tonight to check a few unrelated things, with and without AVX, and both are failing a worker core due to rounding errors typically before 15 minutes is up, even though it was fine at the same settings just a few days ago. Resetting the ram to the XMP settings seems to have fixed it the issue. I'm not entirely sure the slight increase in speed/bandwidth really warrants the boost to 1.45V dram voltage though. 

System Specs:

9700K 5.2ghz core 4.8ghz cache at 1.35V. Turbo LLC on the Aorus Master. IO/SA both at 1.25V


----------



## ESRCJ

Jidonsu said:


> Do you guys typically retest your system stability after ensuring your ram alone is stable?
> 
> I'm asking because I was able to get my TridentZ RGB 4000mhz 17-17-17-37 1.35V to 4133mhz 16-17-17-37 at 1.45V. It did Ram Test through 18000%. It also did 8 hours of Realbench last night (but I only set it to use half the ram). I retested Prime95 1344K tonight to check a few unrelated things, with and without AVX, and both are failing worker cores typically before 15 minutes is up, even though it was fine at the same settings just a few days ago. Resetting the ram to the XMP settings seems to have fixed it the issue. I'm not entirely sure the slight increase in speed/bandwidth really warrants the boost to 1.45V dram voltage though.
> 
> System Specs:
> 
> 9700K 5.2ghz core 4.8ghz cache at 1.35V. Turbo LLC on the Aorus Master. IO/SA both at 1.25V


I've had similar issues with my Rampage VI Extreme and various CPUs. Using a Trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 kit, I was running 4000 16-18-16-38 and would pass 10,000% coverage in Ramtest, only to have it fail at 7% the next day, same settings. It's incredibly frustrating. I've reverted back to the kit's rated speed with tighter secondary and tertiary timings, although it's not very satisfying after all of the hard work on the 4000 OC.


----------



## jfriend00

SgtRotty said:


> what is the formula for tREFI? how do we set that up? im assuming it has to do with the size of your ram 16gb, 32gb, 64gb?ive seen people with 32gb have it set to 60000+ and 16gb setup with 32000+ is it like a LoadLineCalibration?


I've never seen any formula for it. What tREFI controls is how often the tiny capacitors in each memory cell need to have their voltage refreshed (a higher number means longer between periods of refresh) and tRFC is somewhat a companion setting that controls how long each refresh takes when it happens. Because a given row is blocked from being used while it's being refreshed and the CPU will have to wait for the refresh to finish if it's trying to access the row in the middle of a refresh, you want the fewest refresh intervals possible and you want them as short as possible when they happen.

To get that, you want tRFC as low as possible and tREFI as high as possible with stability. I've seen numbers for tRFC between 250 and 400 and numbers for tREFI from 20000 to 65000. It is likely influenced by the specific maker of your memory chip (details of their process and design), the voltage you're running your DRAM at, the speed you're running at and the temperature of the DIMMs (all of which determine leakage current from the capacitors and charging speed upon refresh). I don't know of any formula to find the min tRFC and max tREFI other than a binary search with testing after every tweak (which is, unfortunately mostly the way of memory timing optimizations).

My particular 4x8 set of G.SKill B Die at 3733MHz and 1.38V has a min tRFC of 350 and a max tREFI of 17500 (it fails at tRFC 300 and tREFI 20000). My tRFC number is in the range of most I've seen. My max tREFI number is lower than most (not sure why), but it's all verified with stability testing.

FYI, in my performance testing, the tRFC number influences performance a bunch more than tREFI and the way they work together, the lower you get tRFC, the less the tREFI matters (it still matters, just not as much).


----------



## Jidonsu

gridironcpj said:


> I've had similar issues with my Rampage VI Extreme and various CPUs. Using a Trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 kit, I was running 4000 16-18-16-38 and would pass 10,000% coverage in Ramtest, only to have it fail at 7% the next day, same settings. It's incredibly frustrating. I've reverted back to the kit's rated speed with tighter secondary and tertiary timings, although it's not very satisfying after all of the hard work on the 4000 OC.


Hey, but we're not alone! We can cry together.


----------



## SgtRotty

jfriend00 said:


> I've never seen any formula for it. What tREFI controls is how often the tiny capacitors in each memory cell need to have their voltage refreshed (a higher number means longer between periods of refresh) and tRFC is somewhat a companion setting that controls how long each refresh takes when it happens. Because a given row is blocked from being used while it's being refreshed and the CPU will have to wait for the refresh to finish if it's trying to access the row in the middle of a refresh, you want the fewest refresh intervals possible and you want them as short as possible when they happen.
> 
> To get that, you want tRFC as low as possible and tREFI as high as possible with stability. I've seen numbers for tRFC between 250 and 400 and numbers for tREFI from 20000 to 65000. It is likely influenced by the specific maker of your memory chip (details of their process and design), the voltage you're running your DRAM at, the speed you're running at and the temperature of the DIMMs (all of which determine leakage current from the capacitors and charging speed upon refresh). I don't know of any formula to find the min tRFC and max tREFI other than a binary search with testing after every tweak (which is, unfortunately mostly the way of memory timing optimizations).
> 
> My particular 4x8 set of G.SKill B Die at 3733MHz and 1.38V has a min tRFC of 350 and a max tREFI of 17500 (it fails at tRFC 300 and tREFI 20000). My tRFC number is in the range of most I've seen. My max tREFI number is lower than most (not sure why), but it's all verified with stability testing.


thanks for your reply!


----------



## Nephalem89

encrypted11 said:


> Nephalem89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HI! @encrypted11 I have a problem... I have the same memories and the same plate that you... But I put the profile of Raja and it is impossible to use it always gives me blue screenshots all the time and I can not do OC to ram I'm using the latest version of the gene BIOS but not if it goes well thanks a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> MCH Full check disabled, MRC Fastboot disabled, Realtime Memory training disabled, try a manual toggle between maximus tweak mode 1 and 2.
> 
> Set a manual SA/IO voltage. Defaults are approximately 1.35V SA/IO at 4133MHz. Try VDIMM 1.45 before you begin optimising voltages and timing.
Click to expand...

But 1, 35V of VCCIO and VCSA is a very dangerous value the safe value is 1.25 no


----------



## Jspinks020

Well that's been a stable kit left alone about it....it's worth the cash for like Trident Z...you can OC. What id recommend for that...they say it does anyways...Probably highly approved.


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> I've had similar issues with my Rampage VI Extreme and various CPUs. Using a Trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 kit, I was running 4000 16-18-16-38 and would pass 10,000% coverage in Ramtest, only to have it fail at 7% the next day, same settings. It's incredibly frustrating. I've reverted back to the kit's rated speed with tighter secondary and tertiary timings, although it's not very satisfying after all of the hard work on the 4000 OC.


 once you had that stable config, did you manually set the RTLs and IOLs... and disable ram training?




Anyway - thought I'd drop this Samsung document here:


----------



## ESRCJ

Jpmboy said:


> once you had that stable config, did you manually set the RTLs and IOLs... and disable ram training?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway - thought I'd drop this Samsung document here:


No I didn't. Should I have done that? Whenever I've tried to set the RTLs and IOLs manually to what I've seen them set to in MemTweakit, I always have issues booting. 

As for the document, is there anything in particular I should be looking at here?


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> No I didn't. Should I have done that? Whenever I've tried to set the RTLs and IOLs manually to what I've seen them set to in MemTweakit, I always have issues booting.
> 
> *As for the document*, is there anything in particular I should be looking at here?


depending on your level of ram affliction, it may be only bathroom reading. 


regarding the rtls. if auto sets reasonable, proven stable rtls and iols, and you experience stability issues on reboot, yes, try disabling training after manually setting these to known-good values (all ram training) then test again. It can help, not a "will fix" thing... It may be that the combination of IMC and sticks for your particular samples just will not align well on reboot or drift significantly at the higher frequency - can be a cold/hot thing too).


----------



## ESRCJ

Jpmboy said:


> gridironcpj said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I didn't. Should I have done that? Whenever I've tried to set the RTLs and IOLs manually to what I've seen them set to in MemTweakit, I always have issues booting.
> 
> *As for the document*, is there anything in particular I should be looking at here?
> 
> 
> 
> depending on your level of ram affliction, it may be only bathroom reading. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> regarding the rtls. if auto sets reasonable, proven stable rtls and iols, and you experience stability issues on reboot, yes, try disabling training after manually setting these to known-good values (all ram training) then test again. It can help, not a "will fix" thing... It may be that the combination of IMC and sticks for your particular samples just will not align well on reboot or drift significantly at the higher frequency - can be a cold/hot thing too).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the read. I'll try to make it more than a bathroom read since I'd like to become more knowledgeable on this stuff for my own sake. 

As for this drifting, what particular variables are drifting? I've taken note of every timing and setting in Memtweakit both before the stability testing and after the reboot, with everything remaining identical there.


----------



## BLUuuE

gridironcpj said:


> No I didn't. Should I have done that? Whenever I've tried to set the RTLs and IOLs manually to what I've seen them set to in MemTweakit, I always have issues booting.
> 
> As for the document, is there anything in particular I should be looking at here?


I have the same issue on my Maximus VI Hero. 

Manually setting RTLs and IOLs to whatever auto sets them to never boots.

I'd watch the RTLs and IOLs every time you do a cold boot. I've noticed that on some cold boots my RTLs would be a bit off, impacting stability. Setting RTL inital value to a fixed number seemed to fix the cold boot training issues.


----------



## jfriend00

*RAMTest error only after 3000% - why?*

I am working on overclocking memory (G.SKill 4x8 3733 17-17-17-37 sticks) on an ASRock z390 Taichi with an i7-9700k at 5.0GHz. I thought I had a very nice overclock at 3733, 16-16-16-34 with nice tight timings that had really improved my AIDA64 memory benchmarks quite a bit. I've been testing with PassMark MemTest86 Pro and RAMTest. After working on optimizing the timings for the overclock for several days and documenting every step along the way, running 20 minute tests with RAMTest every once in a while to verify things, I felt like I was pretty much done.

So, I did a long run with RAMTest and after 1.5 hrs at 3500%, I got an error. Backed out all my optimizations, ran the test again, again got an error at 4000%. Raised voltage up to 1.42V. Still get an error somewhere between 3000% and 4000%. The challenge with this kind of error is that progress is glacial because it takes so long to try something and see if it's going to eventually make an error.

So, my question is, what is RAMTest doing that would only trigger an error after 3000%-4000% coverage? Is anything known about how it works internally? Are there any particular types of memory errors that would only happen in a very long test and NEVER happen in a shorter test? Is there any way this could be an IMC error, not an actual DRAM error?


----------



## KedarWolf

jfriend00 said:


> I am working on overclocking memory (G.SKill 4x8 3733 17-17-17-37 sticks) on an ASRock z390 Taichi with an i7-9700k at 5.0GHz. I thought I had a very nice overclock at 3733, 16-16-16-34 with nice tight timings that had really improved my AIDA64 memory benchmarks quite a bit. I've been testing with PassMark MemTest86 Pro and RAMTest. After working on optimizing the timings for the overclock for several days and documenting every step along the way, running 20 minute tests with RAMTest every once in a while to verify things, I felt like I was pretty much done.
> 
> So, I did a long run with RAMTest and after 1.5 hrs at 3500%, I got an error. Backed out all my optimizations, ran the test again, again got an error at 4000%. Raised voltage up to 1.42V. Still get an error somewhere between 3000% and 4000%. The challenge with this kind of error is that progress is glacial because it takes so long to try something and see if it's going to eventually make an error.
> 
> So, my question is, what is RAMTest doing that would only trigger an error after 3000%-4000% coverage? Is anything known about how it works internally? Are there any particular types of memory errors that would only happen in a very long test and NEVER happen in a shorter test? Is there any way this could be an IMC error, not an actual DRAM error?


It usually happens when your RAM crawls too high above 40C. I use a 3500 RPM G.Skill RAM fan to keep temps down. With it I've gotten to 16000% overnight, without it I fail. 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835236002


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> It usually happens when your RAM crawls too high above 40C. I use a 3500 RPM G.Skill RAM fan to keep temps down. With it I've gotten to 16000% overnight, without it I fail.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835236002


Hmmm - that would be one possible explanation. I can attempt to chart RAM temps next time I do a long RAMTest run and see if they are getting up to those temps.

Because I have a large CPU air cooler (Noctua NH-D15), it's not so easy for me to mount that G.Skill RAM fan. I'll cross that bridge when I get there if it does look like perhaps a temperature issue. That would fit with errors only occurring 1.5 hrs into the test, though. I suppose leakage current on memory capacitors also goes up at higher temperatures which could require different timings.


----------



## pm1109

jfriend00 said:


> Hmmm - that would be one possible explanation. I can attempt to chart RAM temps next time I do a long RAMTest run and see if they are getting up to those temps.
> 
> Because I have a large CPU air cooler (Noctua NH-D15), it's not so easy for me to mount that G.Skill RAM fan. I'll cross that bridge when I get there if it does look like perhaps a temperature issue. That would fit with errors only occurring 1.5 hrs into the test, though. I suppose leakage current on memory capacitors also goes up at higher temperatures which could require different timings.


How high do the ram temps get?


----------



## jfriend00

pm1109 said:


> How high do the ram temps get?


I'm watching them now during a RAMTest run. They started at 32C (have been running multiple tests over the last several hours so they start pre-heated some already) and after 15 minutes of RAMTest are up to 40C, but not rising much any more. I don't know what temp they'll stabilize at yet. 

Motherboard temp is 30C which is what the case fans are controlled by which isn't very hot so case fans aren't running much. I can run another test at some point to see if increasing case airflow holds the DIMM temps down or not.

I'm sure it doesn't help the temps that these sticks need 1.42V to run at 3733MHz and even then aren't totally stable. I'm thinking about RMAing them because XMP says they should do 3733 at 1.35V (at least that's what I thought I was paying for).


----------



## jfriend00

pm1109 said:


> How high do the ram temps get?


Highest temp of the 4 sticks was 40.5C and it stabilized there after about 20 minutes, did not go higher.

Bumped up the case air flow and am running another test which I will let run overnight. After 45 mins, the highest DIMM temp is 38.5C. I have HWiNFO64 running so it will record the highest temp for each DIMM.


----------



## kignt

ddr4 8gbx2 of xmp 3200/14, trying to push towards 4000 or higher, but unsure about direction for secondary and tertiary timings. When time allows, going to keep referencing sdch's super post from Jan 1st.


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> ddr4 8gbx2 of xmp 3200/14, trying to push towards 4000 or higher, but unsure about direction for secondary and tertiary timings. When time allows, going to keep referencing sdch's super post from Jan 1st.


Very nice that you could push 3200 all the way to 3800. I couldn't push my G.Skill TridentZ 4x8 3733 past its rated speed at all.

Based on your timings, I would suspect your RAM is different chips than mine, but here are some observations/ideas:

Have you tried to push tREFI up as high as possible (longer is better) and still have long term stability? I've seen folks with values anywhere from 25000 to 65000.

Your value for tFAW is unusually low since it's typically derived from some other timings (but if you're stable, I guess it's OK).

I've seen folks with tWRT_L set to 8 and my chips run OK that way and that value of 15 kind of stands out among the other values.

Is tCWL as low as it can go? That value seemed important to my AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers.


----------



## kignt

jfriend00 said:


> Very nice that you could push 3200 all the way to 3800. I couldn't push my G.Skill TridentZ 4x8 3733 past its rated speed at all.
> 
> Based on your timings, I would suspect your RAM is different chips than mine, but here are some observations/ideas:
> 
> Have you tried to push tREFI up as high as possible (longer is better) and still have long term stability? I've seen folks with values anywhere from 25000 to 65000.
> 
> Your value for tFAW is unusually low since it's typically derived from some other timings (but if you're stable, I guess it's OK).
> 
> I've seen folks with tWRT_L set to 8 and my chips run OK that way and that value of 15 kind of stands out among the other values.
> 
> Is tCWL as low as it can go? That value seemed important to my AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers.


Haven't tried tCWL lower than tCL. I've been under the impression those two generally run equal. These chips are definitely b-die according to Thaiphoon, and unsure about binning quality but coming from hynix mfr, these b-die have been more flexible with timings it can boot with. 

I don't have in-depth understanding of any, but tFAW has literally been trial and error...


----------



## Jpmboy

gsat, hci and ramtest stable. 32GB 3600c16 kit. [email protected]
IME, 3200c14 and 3600c16 behave the same. the 3600c15 kit(s) seem to be a better bin in this freq range. the new 4400+ kits are a different die.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> gsat, hci and ramtest stable. 32GB 3600c16 kit. [email protected]
> IME, 3200c14 and 3600c16 behave the same. the 3600c15 kit(s) seem to be a better bin in this freq range. the new 4400+ kits are a different die.


What DRAM, VCCIO, VCCSA voltages did it take to get your 4x8 kit running at 4000MHz? 

I've got 4x8 3733 17-17-17-37 which should be similar to 3600/16, but haven't been able to get mine stable above 3733. Will boot at 3800, but not survive RAMTest. Won't boot at 4000.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> What DRAM, VCCIO, VCCSA voltages did it take to get your 4x8 kit running at 4000MHz?
> 
> I've got 4x8 3733 17-17-17-37 which should be similar to 3600/16, but haven't been able to get mine stable above 3733. Will boot at 3800, but not survive RAMTest. Won't boot at 4000.


 1.45 vdimm, 1.2375 vccio, 1.25 VSA. Took awhile to tune things (especially with this new automatic "memok" on this board  ). But other than sorting that out, once I got the RTLs and IOLs aligned at 4000 (this 4 dimm board really needs a 2-gap) the rest was straight tuning. Yeah, sometimes it can be a thesis project, or a rabbit hole. 


kignt said:


> Haven't tried tCWL lower than tCL. I've been under the impression those two generally run equal. These chips are definitely b-die according to Thaiphoon, and unsure about binning quality but coming from hynix mfr, these b-die have been more flexible with timings it can boot with.
> 
> I don't have in-depth understanding of any, but* tFAW has literally been trial and error.*..


there are some basic relationships that are kinda... rules which can simplify initial tuning.
tFAW >= 4x tRRD(_S)
tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish (the ras window needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete all three operations - any lower and the timing error is corrected on the fly)
tWR and tCWL can go 2-4 below cas - but not always.


And as always, the CPU IMC rules the show. 


very long tREFI is fine, but be aware that testing this should probably also include "suspend-to-ram" and ramdisk if you use one.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> 1.45 vdimm, 1.2375 vccio, 1.25 VSA. Took awhile to tune things (especially with this new automatic "memok" on this board  ). But other than sorting that out, once I got the RTLs and IOLs aligned at 4000 (this 4 dimm board really needs a 2-gap) the rest was straight tuning. Yeah, sometimes it can be a thesis project, or a rabbit hole.


Do you have any resources to point to or tuning advice on manually "getting TRLs and IOLs aligned"? How do you do that?


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Do you have any resources to point to or tuning advice on manually "getting TRLs and IOLs aligned"? How do you do that?


oh geeze - that's not a quick-here's-how-you-do-it. just let the board set them automatically and monitor any change/drift with cold (psu power off) and warm restarts... if vdimm does not stabilize them, add a bit of VSA (on some platforms lowering vsa actually helps - more is not always better). lol - rinse and repeat and watch out for the rabbit hole (blue vs red pill).


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> oh geeze - that's not a quick-here's-how-you-do-it. just let the board set them automatically and monitor any change/drift with cold (psu power off) and warm restarts... if vdimm does not stabilize them, add a bit of VSA (on some platforms lowering vsa actually helps - more is not always better). lol - rinse and repeat and watch out for the rabbit hole (blue vs red pill).


Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill ...


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> gsat, hci and ramtest stable. 32GB 3600c16 kit. [email protected]
> IME, 3200c14 and 3600c16 behave the same. the 3600c15 kit(s) seem to be a better bin in this freq range. the new 4400+ kits are a different die.


Hi,
Looks like you need to add or edit your signature and 9700k goodies


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> 1.45 vdimm, 1.2375 vccio, 1.25 VSA. Took awhile to tune things (especially with this new automatic "memok" on this board  ). But other than sorting that out, once I got the RTLs and IOLs aligned at 4000 (this 4 dimm board really needs a 2-gap) the rest was straight tuning. Yeah, sometimes it can be a thesis project, or a rabbit hole.
> 
> 
> 
> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh geeze - that's not a quick-here's-how-you-do-it. just let the board set them automatically and monitor any change/drift with cold (psu power off) and warm restarts... if vdimm does not stabilize them, add a bit of VSA (on some platforms lowering vsa actually helps - more is not always better). lol - rinse and repeat and watch out for the rabbit hole (blue vs red pill).
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always bring up the rabbit hole? It gives me nightmares.....LOL.....reload, reload and reload again. :worriedsm
Click to expand...


----------



## sdch

Edited into earlier post.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> oh geeze - that's not a quick-here's-how-you-do-it. just let the board set them automatically and monitor any change/drift with cold (psu power off) and warm restarts... if vdimm does not stabilize them, add a bit of VSA (on some platforms lowering vsa actually helps - more is not always better). lol - rinse and repeat and watch out for the rabbit hole (blue vs red pill).


I'm in the rabbit hole (never spent so much time futzing with something in my life). 

Just cannot find any way to make my G.Skill Trident-Z 3733 4x8 17-17-17-35 stable @3733 with RAMTest (running on ASrock z390 Taichi, i7-9700k @5.0GHz). Every once in a while, I'll get a RAMTest run stable at 3500% and save those timings and voltages so I can get back to them, but then cannot repeat it even with exact same times/voltages/etc... again. The one stable run was at DRAM 1.45V, VCCIO 1.2V, VCCSA 1.2V. Can't get another stable run. Have tried DRAM voltage up to 1.5V. Have tried combinations of raising and lowering VCCIO.

I guess its time for RMA. I'm wondering if I should try 2x16 instead of 4x8? There seem to be varying opinions on which will OC better. At this point, I'd just settle for stable at the XMP speed (3733), but can't even get that. Any consenus here if I was going to try a new set and want 32GB that I can run at least at 17-17-17-37 @ 3733MHz whether I should go for 2x16 or 4x8?

In case anyone has any ideas, here are the timings that gave me one stable run, but won't repeat it:

DRAM: 1.45V
VCCIO: 1.20V
VCCSA: 1.20V
max DIMM temperature 39C


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> I'm in the rabbit hole (never spent so much time futzing with something in my life).
> 
> Just cannot find any way to make my G.Skill Trident-Z 3733 4x8 17-17-17-35 stable @3733 with RAMTest (running on ASrock z390 Taichi, i7-9700k @5.0GHz). Every once in a while, I'll get a RAMTest run stable at 3500% and save those timings and voltages so I can get back to them, but then cannot repeat it even with exact same times/voltages/etc... again. The one stable run was at DRAM 1.45V, VCCIO 1.2V, VCCSA 1.2V. Can't get another stable run. Have tried DRAM voltage up to 1.5V. Have tried combinations of raising and lowering VCCIO.
> 
> I guess its time for RMA. I'm wondering if I should try 2x16 instead of 4x8? There seem to be varying opinions on which will OC better. At this point, I'd just settle for stable at the XMP speed (3733), but can't even get that. Any consenus here if I was going to try a new set and want 32GB that I can run at least at 17-17-17-37 @ 3733MHz whether I should go for 2x16 or 4x8?
> 
> In case anyone has any ideas, here are the timings that gave me one stable run, but won't repeat it:
> 
> DRAM: 1.45V
> VCCIO: 1.20V
> VCCSA: 1.20V
> max DIMM temperature 39C


From JP's Post above you need to start with these rules.

there are some basic relationships that are kinda... rules which can simplify initial tuning.
tFAW >= 4x tRRD(_S)
tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish (the ras window needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete all three operations - any lower and the timing error is corrected on the fly)
tWR and tCWL can go 2-4 below cas - but not always.


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> From JP's Post above you need to start with these rules.
> 
> there are some basic relationships that are kinda... rules which can simplify initial tuning.
> tFAW >= 4x tRRD(_S)
> tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish (the ras window needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete all three operations - any lower and the timing error is corrected on the fly)
> tWR and tCWL can go 2-4 below cas - but not always.


I appreciate the help but, if tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish, then I'd be looking at 17-17-17-51. The XMP for this RAM is 17-17-17-37. That isn't making sense to me and doesn't jibe with any of the other stable B-die timings posted here. 

Are you actually saying, you want me to see if 17-17-17-51 is stable?

I can lower my tFAW value per that recommendation, but it doesn't seem likely that that will improve stability. tFAW limits four successive access to the same bank to no more frequent than its value. If there was a tFAW related stability issue, one would increase its value, not decrease its value, right? One might lower tFAW to increase performance (if you can get away with it).

One can lower tWR and tCWL when looking to improve performance (I get that), but that's not going to increase stability is it? I'm trying to get repeatedly stable before I look to tweak performance. I've learned the hard way that you have to prove repeatable stability, then make one or a small number of tweaks and then prove stability again. I don't have repeatable stability yet.


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> I appreciate the help but, if tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish, then I'd be looking at 17-17-17-51. The XMP for this RAM is 17-17-17-37. That isn't making sense to me and doesn't jibe with any of the other stable B-die timings posted here.
> 
> Are you actually saying, you want me to see if 17-17-17-51 is stable?
> 
> I can lower my tFAW value per that recommendation, but it doesn't seem likely that that will improve stability. tFAW limits four successive access to the same bank to no more frequent than its value. If there was a tFAW related stability issue, one would increase its value, not decrease its value, right? One might lower tFAW to increase performance (if you can get away with it).
> 
> One can lower tWR and tCWL when looking to improve performance (I get that), but that's not going to increase stability is it? I'm trying to get repeatedly stable before I look to tweak performance. I've learned the hard way that you have to prove repeatable stability, then make one or a small number of tweaks and then prove stability again. I don't have repeatable stability yet.


Take a look at JP's and my timings in the spoiler. Two different platforms.



Spoiler


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> I appreciate the help but, if tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish, then I'd be looking at 17-17-17-51. The XMP for this RAM is 17-17-17-37. That isn't making sense to me and doesn't jibe with any of the other stable B-die timings posted here.
> 
> Are you actually saying, you want me to see if 17-17-17-51 is stable?
> 
> I can lower my tFAW value per that recommendation, but it doesn't seem likely that that will improve stability. tFAW limits four successive access to the same bank to no more frequent than its value. If there was a tFAW related stability issue, one would increase its value, not decrease its value, right? One might lower tFAW to increase performance (if you can get away with it).
> 
> One can lower tWR and tCWL when looking to improve performance (I get that), but that's not going to increase stability is it? I'm trying to get repeatedly stable before I look to tweak performance. I've learned the hard way that you have to prove repeatable stability, then make one or a small number of tweaks and then prove stability again. I don't have repeatable stability yet.


the RAS issue re: XMP values has been discussed in this thread too many times. Sure you can run lower, but now you know how it works. Since you are trying to get stable settings, loosen up what needs to be, demonstrate stability and then tighten things (even below the timing windows). Most timings are interlinked with other timings, any one change is never in isolation.
If that 32GB kit will not run XMP (all bios voltages on auto except the vcore and vdimm), and it is on your board's QVL. I'd send them back and get a decent 3600c16 4x8GB kit. 2x16GB is not going to be any easier.


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> Take a look at JP's and my timings in the spoiler. Two different platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I guess I missed your point. Neither one of you are anywhere near tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish. I'm not surprised that different DIMMs on different motherboards, being optimized by different people get optimized with different timings - that's expected.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> the RAS issue re: XMP values has been discussed in this thread too many times. Sure you can run lower, but now you know how it works. Since you are trying to get stable settings, loosen up what needs to be, demonstrate stability and then tighten things (even below the timing windows). Most timings are interlinked with other timings, any one change is never in isolation.
> If that 32GB kit will not run XMP (all bios voltages on auto except the vcore and vdimm), and it is on your board's QVL. I'd send them back and get a decent 3600c16 4x8GB kit. 2x16GB is not going to be any easier.


I follow you conceptually, but what specifically should I loosen? 18-18-18-39 @3733 was not stable either. What timings would you suggest I loosen? tRAS? tWR? tCWL?


----------



## misoonigiri

jfriend00 said:


> I appreciate the help but, if tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish, then I'd be looking at 17-17-17-51.


tRTP, i believe you are wrongly looking at your tRP instead


----------



## jfriend00

misoonigiri said:


> tRTP, i believe you are wrongly looking at your tRP instead


You are correct. My tRTP is 15 so if I followed that formula, I'd be looking at 17-17-17-49 (vs the XMP of 17-17-17-37).


----------



## misoonigiri

Well, you can try tRTP 8 and with +/- 2, that could mean abt 17-17-17-40 or 42


----------



## sdch

Here's the tRAS information summarized (credit to Raja and Jpmboy). It's such a nightmare navigating this forum that it's worth a repost I think:



Spoiler






[email protected] said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:Originally Posted by *Mydog*
> 
> Testing out some settings on my new memory(16 GB G.Skill 3200 MHz Cl16-16-16-36 2T stock) but I'm a noob
> Any suggestions to what I need to tighten or change on the timings, trying to read all I can about how this DDR4 works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need for tRAS at 30. It's below the minimum time so the chipset will have to resort to some arbitrary timing. tRCD is the time it take to latch the row and transfer the data into the sense amps. CAS is the time it takes to find the column address have have the data ready for burst. Adding those two together brings you to 30 clocks. Each burst is 4 clock cycles in length. That brings you to 34. However, tRTP is set to 10. Which means that 40 clocks must elapse before tRAS elapses and the precharge command can be sent to transfer the data in the sense amps back into the dram cells. The minimum proper tRAS value for your setup is therefore 40 clocks.
> 
> All of the timings follow the same laws as DDR3 for minimum value, apart from tRRD_L which has a minimum spacing of 6 clocks.





[email protected] said:


> No, as stated above 40 is the minimum spacing based on your initial settings. Burst chop may allow lower value by 2 clocks on occasion- but that has never been made clear, so in cases where the system is run daily it is best to stick with the 4 clock assumption. In your case it brings you to 40 clocks.
> 
> 
> The second screenshot minimum is 38 clocks.
> 
> The only way to reduce tRAS is by altering the contributing timings. CAS and tRCD are already "tight" for daily use, so your remaining option is tRTP. As you reduce that, you can reduce tRAS by equivalent value.





Jpmboy said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Where did you get that formula for tRAS ?
> 
> Because even when I check my XMP Timings for my 3600mhz C16 kit, the tRAS set by G.Skill, does not add up to the sum of those figures.
> 
> Depends on ther tRTP value assigned by the IMC. Posted 'bout this many times, the ras windows needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete all three operations, and when this is set below the required window (it's all explained in the JDEC spec) the chipset subs in a value to correct the timings error... and you cannot interrogate this value. For vendors, there is no loss (or risk) to setting this value below the required window since the chipset will correct it. It is possible for our manual value to be an offset to a floor hence you see values below the sum. It's just how ram works.
> Raja has posted about this many times over the past year(s).
> 
> Here are two:
> 
> _No need for tRAS at 30. It's below the minimum time so the chipset will have to resort to some arbitrary timing. tRCD is the time it take to latch the row and transfer the data into the sense amps. CAS is the time it takes to find the column address have have the data ready for burst. Adding those two together brings you to 30 clocks. Each burst is 4 clock cycles in length. That brings you to 34. However, tRTP is set to 10. Which means that 40 clocks must elapse before tRAS elapses and the precharge command can be sent to transfer the data in the sense amps back into the dram cells. The minimum proper tRAS value for your setup is therefore 40 clocks.
> All of the timings follow the same laws as DDR3 for minimum value, apart from tRRD_L which has a minimum spacing of 6 clocks_
> 
> _tRAS is the minimum time the row should be active. The row needs to be active for the entire duration it takes to perform tRCD, CAS and tRTP. Any lower and the chipset has to apply the minimum value arbitrarily - there may be an additional penalty for the collision as well.
> So while it may look nice in screenshots to set tRAS to some low value (below the min threshold) in reality it is not helping and may be worse than setting the correct minimum value instead on relying on the IMC to correct the timing issue._
> 
> Believe me, many moons ago I examined JDEC timing schedules (charts) and it is indeed so. Looks good to have a low number, but may not actually be what the memory start-up tests end up with.





[email protected] said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *tknight*
> 
> Where did you get that formula for tRAS ?
> 
> 
> This diagram shows the RAS line held low until tRCD, CAS, and at least 2 clocks of data have been output. If the RAS line goes high before that, you're asking the memory controller to unlatch the row before you've got the requested data from it.
> 
> http://www.electronics.dit.ie/staff/tscarff/memory/DRAM_READ_CYCLE.jpg
> 
> What hangs in the balance at the board level - not the chipset level - is how the number of clocks you've entered for tRAS is interpreted. Most of the time, it should be a 1:1 relationship. Any timing set below the minimum "electrical" value is simply substituted so that the operation can be performed. The penalty of this is unknown, but there's usually a drop in performance at a certain point. Indirect realtionships to other timings can play a part in perceived performance gains (in this case it would likely be from tRC). Make no mistake that the law is real, it's just the interface layer that is sometimes fuzzy.
> 
> -Raja





Jpmboy said:


> ^^ yeah, what he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not sure if this is still valid:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for pointing out the interface layer issue.





[email protected] said:


> Yeah, it's valid if you know what to look for. It shows a two column burst, not a single column read followed by a page close...





So that's where "tRAS = CL + tRCD + tRTP +/- 2" comes from. You may see a performance penalty if you go too low. There's also a strong possibility that a hidden auto-correction is performed by the BIOS (with a performance penalty of its own) if you go too low. I don't know why memory kits are sold with, for example, "XMP DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34" when tRTP defaults to 12 or higher with those kits. The advertised tRAS ends up being nonsense if we believe the above information.


----------



## sdch

Here's the funny part, Raja doesn't even follow his own rules. From his presets:

Raja Samsung 2x16GB 3733:
CL: 16
tRCD: 16
tRAS: *37*
tRTP: 8
"correct" tRAS: 16+16+8 = *40*
"correct" minimum tRAS: 16+16+8-2 = *38*

Raja Samsung 2x8GB 4133:
CL: 17
tRCD: 18
tRAS: *38*
tRTP: 8
"correct" tRAS: 17+18+8 = *43*
"correct" minimum tRAS: 17+18+8-2 = *41*

So who knows what to believe these days.


----------



## CptSpig

sdch said:


> Here's the funny part, Raja doesn't even follow his own rules. From his presets:
> 
> Raja Samsung 2x16GB 3733:
> CL: 16
> tRCD: 16
> tRAS: *37*
> tRTP: 8
> "correct" tRAS: 16+16+8 = *40*
> "correct" minimum tRAS: 16+16+8-2 = *38*
> 
> Raja Samsung 2x8GB 4133:
> CL: 17
> tRCD: 18
> tRAS: *38*
> tRTP: 8
> "correct" tRAS: 17+18+8 = *43*
> "correct" minimum tRAS: 17+18+8-2 = *41*
> 
> So who knows what to believe these days.


tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish so tRAS can be 41 or 43 to start before you began to tighten timings for max OC. :thumb:


----------



## jfriend00

As a side diversion from the rabbit hole of trying to find stability with my G.SKill 4x8 17-17-17-37 @ 3733, I decided I'd remove two sticks and see how it does as a 2x8. Wow, what a difference! Instant stability as plain 3733 XMP settings and 1.45V (RAMTest 3000%). 

Then increased the speed to 4000 (still at 17-17-17-37). Stable and nice AIDA64 numbers (with no timing tweaking at all).

Then, I raised it to 4100MHz. Still crunching on the RAMTest to see if it's stable (good so far at 1300%), but the AIDA64 numbers for write and copy dropped a whole bunch (write speed dropped from 52748 MB/s to 41420 MB/s). Must be a timing issue that messes with performance, but not stability. Odd. I won't deep end on that issue unless I decide I really want to just go with the two sticks and only 16GB.

Anyway, what does this say about my system that it's easy to get stability and speed at 2x8 with stock timings, but not at 4x8? 

One of the two RAM DIMMs I removed are bad? I guess I could eliminate the possibility of one RAM DIMM being bad by swapping in the other two DIMMS and repeating my recent tests. Yeah, just need that additional several hours in the rabbit hole. I've never seen an activity that can eat up as much time as memory overclocking.

Or is it just a lot more challenging for a motherboard (ASRock Z390 Taichi) and IMC (i7-9700k @ 5.0) to run 4 sticks?


----------



## sdch

jfriend00 said:


> As a side diversion from the rabbit hole of trying to find stability with my G.SKill 4x8 17-17-17-37 @ 3733, I decided I'd remove two sticks and see how it does as a 2x8. Wow, what a difference! Instant stability as plain 3733 XMP settings and 1.45V (RAMTest 3000%).
> 
> Then increased the speed to 4000 (still at 17-17-17-37). Stable and nice AIDA64 numbers (with no timing tweaking at all).
> 
> Then, I raised it to 4100MHz. Still crunching on the RAMTest to see if it's stable (good so far at 1300%), but the AIDA64 numbers for write and copy dropped a whole bunch (write speed dropped from 52748 MB/s to 41420 MB/s). Must be a timing issue that messes with performance, but not stability. Odd. I won't deep end on that issue unless I decide I really want to just go with the two sticks and only 16GB.
> 
> Anyway, what does this say about my system that it's easy to get stability and speed at 2x8 with stock timings, but not at 4x8?
> 
> One of the two RAM DIMMs I removed are bad? I guess I could eliminate the possibility of one RAM DIMM being bad by swapping in the other two DIMMS and repeating my recent tests. Yeah, just need that additional several hours in the rabbit hole. I've never seen an activity that can eat up as much time as memory overclocking.
> 
> Or is it just a lot more challenging for a motherboard (ASRock Z390 Taichi) and IMC (i7-9700k @ 5.0) to run 4 sticks?


It's more challenging, but should be doable. I'd say it's one of the following: bad kit, weak IMC, or a shortcoming of the memory trace layout (topology) on your motherboard. The guys in the VRM thread can describe the last part better. Here's a starting point:


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> As a side diversion from the rabbit hole of trying to find stability with my G.SKill 4x8 17-17-17-37 @ 3733, I decided I'd remove two sticks and see how it does as a 2x8. Wow, what a difference! Instant stability as plain 3733 XMP settings and 1.45V (RAMTest 3000%).
> 
> Then increased the speed to 4000 (still at 17-17-17-37). Stable and nice AIDA64 numbers (with no timing tweaking at all).
> 
> Then, I raised it to 4100MHz. Still crunching on the RAMTest to see if it's stable (good so far at 1300%), but the AIDA64 numbers for write and copy dropped a whole bunch (write speed dropped from 52748 MB/s to 41420 MB/s). Must be a timing issue that messes with performance, but not stability. Odd. I won't deep end on that issue unless I decide I really want to just go with the two sticks and only 16GB.
> 
> Anyway, what does this say about my system that it's easy to get stability and speed at 2x8 with stock timings, but not at 4x8?
> 
> One of the two RAM DIMMs I removed are bad? I guess I could eliminate the possibility of one RAM DIMM being bad by swapping in the other two DIMMS and repeating my recent tests. Yeah, just need that additional several hours in the rabbit hole. I've never seen an activity that can eat up as much time as memory overclocking.
> 
> Or is it just a lot more challenging for a motherboard (ASRock Z390 Taichi) and IMC (i7-9700k @ 5.0) to run 4 sticks?


it's always more challenging for an IMC to run more ram (sticks or density). That said... from this post, I think you need to check the sticks independently... may have one bad/weak one. the Z390 Taichi should run 4x8GB @4000 with capable sticks and your 9700K


----------



## Jidonsu

CptSpig said:


> From JP's Post above you need to start with these rules.
> 
> there are some basic relationships that are kinda... rules which can simplify initial tuning.
> tFAW >= 4x tRRD(_S)
> tRAS >= CAS+ tRCD+tRTP +/- 2-ish (the ras window needs to be open for the entire time it takes to complete all three operations - any lower and the timing error is corrected on the fly)
> tWR and tCWL can go 2-4 below cas - but not always.





sdch said:


> Here's the tRAS information summarized (credit to Raja and Jpmboy). It's such a nightmare navigating this forum that it's worth a repost I think:
> 
> So that's where "tRAS = CL + tRCD + tRTP +/- 2" comes from. You may see a performance penalty if you go too low. There's also a strong possibility that a hidden auto-correction is performed by the BIOS (with a performance penalty of its own) if you go too low. I don't know why memory kits are sold with, for example, "XMP DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34" when tRTP defaults to 12 or higher with those kits. The advertised tRAS ends up being nonsense if we believe the above information.


Well this was super helpful. I just changed my 4000mhz 4x8gb G.Skill kit from 16-16-16-32 with a tRTP of 12 to 16-16-16-36 with a tRTP of 6. Read went from 55.5k to 57.5k and latency dropped about 0.5ns consistently. Still at 42.4ns at the lowest though. Still way better than the stock settings for sure. 

Aorus Master with a 9700K.


----------



## Jpmboy

Jidonsu said:


> Well this was super helpful. I just changed my 4000mhz 4x8gb G.Skill kit from 16-16-16-32 with a tRTP of 12 to 16-16-16-36 with a tRTP of 6. Read went from 55.5k to 57.5k and latency dropped about 0.5ns consistently. Still at 42.4ns at the lowest though. Still way better than the stock settings for sure.
> 
> Aorus Master with a 9700K.


Cool. try lowering FAW by the formula shown. MIcron did a whole study on the effect of FAW on block transport and it can help a bit more. every little bit of timing tuning adds up. :thumb:


----------



## jfriend00

sdch said:


> It's more challenging, but should be doable. I'd say it's one of the following: bad kit, weak IMC, or a shortcoming of the memory trace layout (topology) on your motherboard. The guys in the VRM thread can describe the last part better. Here's a starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vQwGGbW1AE


Interesting video. Apparently my ASRock Taichi is daisy chain layout (that is the author of the video's supposition based on the fact that it has preferred slots), but the board is still rated as capable of 4400MHz. It appears that the daisy chain layout may do better with two sticks than the T-Topology layout, but T-Topology layout would be better at 4 sticks - the whole idea being that the T-topology layout makes all four sticks equal, but all slightly longer traces than the best two slots in daisy chain. Also, apparently design differences from one board to another matter more than which trace layout is being used. It does make me think I might be better off with 2x16 instead of 4x8 in my daisy chain layout motherboard.

I just finished a 6 hour successful RAMTest (24,738%) at 17-17-17-37 @ 4000MHz and completely auto timings. So, that appears stable! Yeah.

I'll take these two sticks out and put the other two sticks in and try that. That will tell me one stick is clearly sub-par or not.

OK, I guess I got my answer. Put the other two sticks in and tested just them at the same timings. They failed quickly at 248%. It looks like I have at least one sub-par DIMM. Time to return/replace. Only remaining question is what to replace with (4x8 or 2x16). 

Hmmm, it looks like when G.Skill does 2x16 kits at speeds at 3600 or above (per their RAM configurator), they don't represent timings like 17-17-17-37. You only get timings like 17-19-19-39. Does that mean they're not B-die? Is the higher density per DIMM forcing them to use a different type of chip that isn't as fast?

So, my choices are:

1. Get my 3733 4x8 17-17-17-37 set replaced with another one and see if I get a better set that will at least do its XMP.
2. Get a 3600 2x16 17-19-19-39 set instead.
3. Start studying what other makers offer that competes with these (Corsair, HyperX, etc..). It seems G.Skill has far more choices at these faster speeds.

As it turns out, G.Skill doesn't offer a 2x16 set above 3600 (in the configurator for my ASRock Z390 Taichi or a few other boards I looked at). So apparently, they think it's easier to get 4x8 to go above 3600 than it is to get 2x16 to do it.

Any opinions on choice #1 or #2? Or specific recommendations for #3?


----------



## Jidonsu

Jpmboy said:


> Cool. try lowering FAW by the formula shown. MIcron did a whole study on the effect of FAW on block transport and it can help a bit more. every little bit of timing tuning adds up. :thumb:


So I can drop this as low as 16? I tried 24 earlier, and it didn't affect the benchmarks much.


----------



## Nizzen

sdch said:


> Here's the funny part, Raja doesn't even follow his own rules. From his presets:
> 
> Raja Samsung 2x16GB 3733:
> CL: 16
> tRCD: 16
> tRAS: *37*
> tRTP: 8
> "correct" tRAS: 16+16+8 = *40*
> "correct" minimum tRAS: 16+16+8-2 = *38*
> 
> Raja Samsung 2x8GB 4133:
> CL: 17
> tRCD: 18
> tRAS: *38*
> tRTP: 8
> "correct" tRAS: 17+18+8 = *43*
> "correct" minimum tRAS: 17+18+8-2 = *41*
> 
> So who knows what to believe these days.


Raja presets does not boot/work for me on z390 Gene. Tried 3x b-die kits, no matter voltage. Looks like Raja's preset is broken on atleast Gene.


----------



## Jpmboy

Nizzen said:


> Raja presets does not boot/work for me on z390 Gene. Tried 3x b-die kits, no matter voltage. Looks like Raja's preset is broken on atleast Gene.


+/- 2*-ish*. on some boards ras has an offset. The rules are starting points - tune from there. Raja timings are fine (if not perfect ).
The x390 Gene is the hot ram OC motherboard for the z390 platform. what sticks and how many?


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Any opinions on choice #1 or #2? Or specific recommendations for #3?


 g skill trident 4x8GB 3600c16, or *heresy* mix 2kits of 2x8GB 3600c15.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232585
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306



Jidonsu said:


> So I can drop this as low as 16? I tried 24 earlier, and it didn't affect the benchmarks much.


yes. as low as 4xtRDD_S


----------



## sdch

Nizzen said:


> Raja presets does not boot/work for me on z390 Gene. Tried 3x b-die kits, no matter voltage. Looks like Raja's preset is broken on atleast Gene.


There's been at least one person in this thread who loaded the 4133 preset with no problems on the XI Gene. And the presets work fine for me (X Apex) once I loosen the primaries a notch (CL/tRCD/tRP) or drop the frequency down a bit. My kits are nothing special and they aren't hand binned "high quality" sticks which is what the presets are intended for. One time I sent back an obviously poor kit that could only pass XMP and nothing more. That's the extent of the "binning" I've done, ha.

To be fair, there are definitely some broken memory/OC presets since Asus seems to shuffle things around in the bios without always updating the presets to point to the new location. So you end up with values being off by a row. der8auer's presets are a good example of this. Now those are completely broken.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> g skill trident 4x8GB 3600c16, or *heresy* mix 2kits of 2x8GB 3600c15.
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232585
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232306


Any particular reason you like 4x8 16-16-16-36 @ 3600 better than 4x8 17-17-17-37 @3733 (which is what I could get as a straight replacement with and can return without restock fee if it doesn't work at 3733)? Aren't they pretty equivalent timings from the underlying B-die? Or, is there something better about the one you recommended?


----------



## SgtRotty

thanks for all the info! i managed to stabilize 4000 16-16-16-37 with all the info here. around 800% hci no errors


----------



## sdch

SgtRotty said:


> thanks for all the info! i managed to stabilize 4000 16-16-16-37 with all the info here. around 800% hci no errors


If you could, please share your timings using Timing Configurator 4.0.4. It's always nice to see.


----------



## KedarWolf

sdch said:


> If you could, please share your timings using Timing Configurator 4.0.4. It's always nice to see.


Here's my 9900k at 4133MHZ including the BIOS settings I needed to get it HCI MemTest stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Any particular reason you like 4x8 16-16-16-36 @ 3600 better than 4x8 17-17-17-37 @3733 (which is what I could get as a straight replacement with and can return without restock fee if it doesn't work at 3733)? Aren't they pretty equivalent timings from the underlying B-die? Or, is there something better about the one you recommended?


yes they are the same. I was under the (incorrect) impression that you could return/refund the 3733c17 and buy your preference since you floated a 2x16GB kit. The trident 3733c17 are the same as 3600c16.


----------



## Madness11

hEY guys  have G skill tridentZ rgb (32gb 3200cl16) What is max OC i can do it ? (SK hynix )


----------



## Nizzen

Jpmboy said:


> +/- 2*-ish*. on some boards ras has an offset. The rules are starting points - tune from there. Raja timings are fine (if not perfect ).
> The x390 Gene is the hot ram OC motherboard for the z390 platform. what sticks and how many?


2x 3600 c15
2x 4000 c17
2x 4266 c19

Tnx, I'm checking tras?

Love the board, and can benchmark 4400 c16 easy 

On my x299 Apex, the 4000 raja preset works like an dream .


----------



## jfriend00

*Why did performance get worse when I reduced tWTR_L from 15 to 9*

Which timing parameters slow things down (without causing instability) if you get them too low besides tREFI? I'm working on tuning secondary timings on a G.Skill 2x8 @4000MHz, i7-9700k, ASRock z390 Taichi. Based on some timings I've seen here from some others with B-die at similar speeds, I thought I'd change tWTR_L from 15 to 9. But, when I did that, my AIDA64 timings got a little worse without any instability. Are there other timings that can be too low, not cause an instability, but slow things down?

The three attached images are:
1) Timings before I changed tWTR_L from 15 to 9
2) Benchmark before I changed tWTR_L from 15 to 9
3) Benchmark after I changed tWTR_L from 9 back to 15

For reference, when I changed it back to 15, the benchmark came back so it's reversible (not just a benchmark fluke)


----------



## kignt

Can't seem to get under 40ns... tried loosening tRFC and tREFI, together and separately. Maybe I just have too much stuff on my system...


----------



## SgtRotty

Sorry took so long to post it. I played bfV for a few hours daily, had to bump up vccio and SA.
i referred to this for guidance as well as reading the whole thread back and forth for weeks!
https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html
i have not touched the third timings yet. rtl and iol on auto


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> Can't seem to get under 40ns... tried loosening tRFC and tREFI, together and separately. Maybe I just have too much stuff on my system...


Several comments.

1. Your DRAM voltage might be able to come down from 1.45. I'm running a 2x8 (B-die) set on a Z390 ASRock Taichi at 4000MHZ at 1.40V and I haven't even gotten around to trying to lower the voltage even more yet.

2. I'm running both VCCSA and VCCIO at 1.20V (vs your 1.24V and 1.21V). The best thing about lowering these is that they lower the heat load on the CPU so they help with CPU overclocking under stress tests.

3. Have you considered raising the cache clock to 47 (it looks like you're at 44 now)?

4. To really see about stability, you should run RAMTest for at least several hours and some additional tool (GSAT seems a favorite here). I've seen stability errors that only showed up after RAMTest 3000% which is probably because the RAM chips warmed a few degrees and they were on the edge. During the day, I run to 4000% if I really want to know if something is stable before moving on to the next set of things to adjust and then I routinely run RAMTest overnight just to make sure.

5. Your AIDA64 numbers are pretty good. I got maybe only 2% better on the top memory line with lots of fine tweaking (still experimenting, but I seem to have hit a spot where further changes don't change the benchmark numbers much at all and some even make things worse). My current numbers are here.


----------



## Timur Born

Seems that I have to decide between tighter memory OC or higher Uncore (cache) OC here, one limits the other on my system.


----------



## Jpmboy

Timur Born said:


> Seems that I have to decide between tighter memory OC or higher Uncore (cache) OC here, *one limits the other on my system*.


this is true on every system.


----------



## encrypted11

Nizzen said:


> Raja presets does not boot/work for me on z390 Gene. Tried 3x b-die kits, no matter voltage. Looks like Raja's preset is broken on atleast Gene.


It does work, you may want to begin with the Raja profile on 3866MHz. That's what I started with for the quick and dirty boot test. BIOS 0057 mirrored by [email protected]


Spoiler


----------



## Timur Born

Jpmboy said:


> this is true on every system.


Yes, but unfortunately I am already going down below x45 with 3600-C15-2T and tighter sub-timings.


----------



## swddeluxx

encrypted11 said:


> It does work, you may want to begin with the Raja profile on 3866MHz. That's what I started with for the quick and dirty boot test. BIOS 0057 mirrored by [email protected]
> 
> 
> Spoiler






Very nice *encrypted11* :thumb:


can you please save and post all your Settings from Bios as Pictures or as Txt. File (CTRL+F2 in Bios for saving Settings as Txt. File).


----------



## Jidonsu

This might be a dumb question, but do benchmarks do better with 2x8 kits vs 4x8 kits assuming the same CPU and timings?


----------



## encrypted11

swddeluxx said:


> Very nice *encrypted11* :thumb:
> 
> 
> can you please save and post all your Settings from Bios as Pictures or as Txt. File (CTRL+F2 in Bios for saving Settings as Txt. File).


Saved these in my flash drive awhile ago. 
https://pastebin.com/0FrHMJ3d

@elmor's speedshift enablement tips are included as I always do with my regular profiles. 
https://community.hwbot.org/topic/1...-manual-offset/?do=findComment&comment=461876


----------



## Jidonsu

jfriend00 said:


> Which timing parameters slow things down (without causing instability) if you get them too low besides tREFI? I'm working on tuning secondary timings on a G.Skill 2x8 @4000MHz, i7-9700k, ASRock z390 Taichi. Based on some timings I've seen here from some others with B-die at similar speeds, I thought I'd change tWTR_L from 15 to 9. But, when I did that, my AIDA64 timings got a little worse without any instability. Are there other timings that can be too low, not cause an instability, but slow things down?
> 
> The three attached images are:
> 1) Timings before I changed tWTR_L from 15 to 9
> 2) Benchmark before I changed tWTR_L from 15 to 9
> 3) Benchmark after I changed tWTR_L from 9 back to 15
> 
> For reference, when I changed it back to 15, the benchmark came back so it's reversible (not just a benchmark fluke)


I wonder why yours are faster than mine despite my 16-16-16-36 primaries. 4 sticks vs 2? I don't know if it's worth chasing that last 2% though...


----------



## shellashock

Jidonsu said:


> I wonder why yours are faster than mine despite my 16-16-16-36 primaries. 4 sticks vs 2? I don't know if it's worth chasing that last 2% though...


Biggest difference I see is your tFAW is way higher than his and your tRDWR's are higher. Try tightening tFAW and see if you maintain stability.


----------



## swddeluxx

encrypted11 said:


> Saved these in my flash drive awhile ago.
> https://pastebin.com/0FrHMJ3d
> 
> @*elmor*'s speedshift enablement tips are included as I always do with my regular profiles.
> https://community.hwbot.org/topic/1...-manual-offset/?do=findComment&comment=461876



Nice One *encrypted11 :cheers:*


----------



## Jeroen Mantel

2x8gb G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200C14 (B-die) @ 4166C17 on Asrock Z390 Taichi + 9900k 

VCCSA=1.2v in bios (1.216 in hwinfo64)
VCCIO=1.2v in bios (1.224 in hwinfo64)
VDIMM=1.39v in bios (1.408 in hwinfo64)

Let RTL and IOL auto train.


----------



## kignt

Teamgroup 2x8gb 3200c14 @4000c16-17










Ram test up to 12000%, then an error... Might have to retest cpu oc. 
HCI 500%.
Was aiming for under 40ns, but idk what to further tweak. Tried cache at 48x but didn't seem to affect latency as much as I hoped.


----------



## Jpmboy

kignt said:


> Teamgroup 2x8gb 3200c14 @4000c16-17
> https://i.imgur.com/J6pGz1f.png
> Ram test up to 12000%, then an error... Might have to retest cpu oc.
> HCI 500%.
> Was aiming for under 40ns, but idk what to further tweak. Tried cache at 48x but didn't seem to affect latency as much as I hoped.


 re: that ramtest error... ignore it. If you had any software monitoring the ASUS EC and SIO, something with the MUTEX or other poling compliance issue can cause a sporadic error. IDK what exactly is causing it, but I can run clean and then run with HWI open and get an error after several hours.
your timings look tight. maybe tCWL can run 2 below cas?


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> re: that ramtest error... ignore it.


Or, it means that you could have some timing so close to the edge that as the RAM chips heat up and the leakage current increases or as there's a little jitter in the voltage or frequency, some timing needs to be tweaked to handle that variation. I wouldn't be so quick to just ignore a RAMTest error, even after a long test.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Or, it means that you could have some timing so close to the edge that as the RAM chips heat up and the leakage current increases or as there's a little jitter in the voltage or frequency, some timing needs to be tweaked to handle that variation. I wouldn't be so quick to just ignore a RAMTest error, even after a long test.


yes... or the settings are fine and the OS is not.


----------



## KedarWolf

kignt said:


> Teamgroup 2x8gb 3200c14 @4000c16-17
> https://i.imgur.com/J6pGz1f.png
> Ram test up to 12000%, then an error... Might have to retest cpu oc.
> HCI 500%.
> Was aiming for under 40ns, but idk what to further tweak. Tried cache at 48x but didn't seem to affect latency as much as I hoped.


Check your RAM temps while stress testing with HWInfo. 

They gradually increase the longer I test and if they go above 40C I get errors. I use a G.Skill RAM fan to keep them down.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> yes... or the settings are fine and the OS is not.


What does that mean? RAMTest got an error accessing RAM. How is that the fault of the OS?


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> What does that mean? RAMTest got an error accessing RAM. How is that the fault of the OS?


Rabbit Hole!


----------



## Jidonsu

shellashock said:


> Biggest difference I see is your tFAW is way higher than his and your tRDWR's are higher. Try tightening tFAW and see if you maintain stability.


Thanks. Tightened a few things and current sitting at 2500% Ram Test. Read speed shot up a lot to right below 60k and Copy went up a bit too. Latency hasn’t changed though. Will post pics if it’s stable for longer.


----------



## sdch

jfriend00 said:


> What does that mean? RAMTest got an error accessing RAM. How is that the fault of the OS?


It's exactly what Jpmboy said. In all the years that I've used HWiNFO while stress testing, it's never caused me any issues. However, it does happen to others, especially if you run multiple monitoring tools at once. There's a reason for the ASUS EC warning that pops up when you first run HWiNFO. This can also happen on ASRock/Gigabyte/MSI hardware, the brand doesn't matter. It's something to do with the hardware polling method, which can be buggy sometimes. It's not limited to HWiNFO either, that's just a scapegoat.

Separately, in the past I've noticed errors well beyond the recommended HCI MemTest 500% / RAM Test 3200% / GSAT 1 Hour that's often repeated around here, so it wouldn't hurt to run your stress test of choice overnight -- that's what I do. And sure enough, backing off on a setting or bumping up a voltage always solves the issue. If I cared less, I'd post my DDR4-3900 and DDR4-4000 results as "stable" even though they failed RAM Test after 12554% and 5339%, respectively.

"24/7 stable" is extremely subjective. "Rabbit hole" is no joke.


----------



## kignt

sdch said:


> It's exactly what Jpmboy said. In all the years that I've used HWiNFO while stress testing, it's never caused me any issues. However, it does happen to others, especially if you run multiple monitoring tools at once. There's a reason for the ASUS EC warning that pops up when you first run HWiNFO. This can also happen on ASRock/Gigabyte/MSI hardware, the brand doesn't matter. It's something to do with the hardware polling method, which can be buggy sometimes. It's not limited to HWiNFO either, that's just a scapegoat.
> 
> Separately, in the past I've noticed errors well beyond the recommended HCI MemTest 500% / RAM Test 3200% / GSAT 1 Hour that's often repeated around here, so it wouldn't hurt to run your stress test of choice overnight -- that's what I do. And sure enough, backing off on a setting or bumping up a voltage always solves the issue. If I cared less, I'd post my DDR4-3900 and DDR4-4000 results as "stable" even though they failed RAM Test after 12554% and 5339%, respectively.
> 
> "24/7 stable" is extremely subjective. "Rabbit hole" is no joke.


I've always worried hwinfo's polling might affect performance, so I always have it set at 2000ms or 2sec. But I guess that didn't matter in my situation. I'm hoping my error was random or fluke, so I'm testing again. 

This thread is really awesome. I originally thought my kit was stuck at 3800c16 or 4000c19.


----------



## sdch

kignt said:


> I've always worried hwinfo's polling might affect performance, so I always have it set at 2000ms or 2sec. But I guess that didn't matter in my situation. I'm hoping my error was random or fluke, so I'm testing again.
> 
> This thread is really awesome. I originally thought my kit was stuck at 3800c16 or 4000c19.


BTW, about your question from earlier regarding latency. I wouldn't stress over it too much. AIDA64 varies a lot from system to system so it's a bad benchmark in the sense that it's hard to compare personal results to others. However, it's still useful for gauging performance gains from your own testing. Here's an example of the "gains" by simply closing a few offending background apps and services:


----------



## SgtRotty

Jeroen Mantel said:


> 2x8gb G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200C14 (B-die) @ 4166C17 on Asrock Z390 Taichi + 9900k
> 
> VCCSA=1.2v in bios (1.216 in hwinfo64)
> VCCIO=1.2v in bios (1.224 in hwinfo64)
> VDIMM=1.39v in bios (1.408 in hwinfo64)
> 
> Let RTL and IOL auto train.


What LLC are u using for cpu?


----------



## Jeroen Mantel

SgtRotty said:


> What LLC are u using for cpu?


LLC is at level 4
Voltage on offset mode, with -15mv.
C-states disabled
Speedstep (EIST) enabled
Speedshift enabled


This gives 0.65v idle, 1.27v under non-avx load and 1.31v with avx.


----------



## Jidonsu

I'll take it.


----------



## warbucks

I was bored so I just ordered two kits(2x8GB) of G.Skill Trident Z Royal 4266Mhz. Will test with my 9900k and Aorus Master z390 and post results here once I receive them.


----------



## jfriend00

*Which 32GB sticks, best to OC to 4000/17 or 4100/18*

I'm looking for 3600/16 or 3733/17 Samsung b-die 2x16GB sticks (32GB total). My theory was that 2x16 might be easier to overclock than 4x8. They are hard to find. My goal is to OC to something like 4000/17.

NewEgg has a G.Skill F4-3733C17D-32GTZSW - 2x16GB 3733 with timings of 17-19-19-39. Is that b-die or do the non-equal timings indicate it's not b-die?

Which of these would I be better off with when trying to OC to 4000/17 or 4100/18 on a ASRock Z390 Taichi:

G.Skill TridentZ - F4-3733C17D-32GTZSW - 2x16, 3733, 17-19-19-39
G.Skill TridentZ - F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK - 4x8, 3733, 17-17-17-37
G.SKill TridentZ - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZSW - 4x8, 3600, 16-16-16-36

For background, I bought a 4x8 3733 17-17-17-37 and could not even get it stable at 3733 even at 1.45V until I eventually found that one stick was bad. I currently have two of those sticks running at 4000, 17-17-17-37 with nice tight timings and it was easy to get stable. But alas, I'd rather have 32GB so I'm going to return OR RMA these and get something else and am trying to decide which route to go. My ASRock Z390 Taichi seems to be quite good at overclocking two sticks, unsure about 4 sticks, but I can't find [email protected] or [email protected] in 2x16, only in 4x8. Not sure which way to go. Any thoughts?


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> I'm looking for 3600/16 or 3733/17 Samsung b-die 2x16GB sticks (32GB total). My theory was that 2x16 might be easier to overclock than 4x8. They are hard to find. My goal is to OC to something like 4000/17.
> 
> NewEgg has a G.Skill F4-3733C17D-32GTZSW - 2x16GB 3733 with timings of 17-19-19-39. Is that b-die or do the non-equal timings indicate it's not b-die?
> 
> Which of these would I be better off with when trying to OC to 4000/17 or 4100/18 on a ASRock Z390 Taichi:
> 
> G.Skill TridentZ - F4-3733C17D-32GTZSW - 2x16, 3733, 17-19-19-39
> G.Skill TridentZ - F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK - 4x8, 3733, 17-17-17-37
> G.SKill TridentZ - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZSW - 4x8, 3600, 16-16-16-36
> 
> For background, I bought a 4x8 3733 17-17-17-37 and could not even get it stable at 3733 even at 1.45V until I eventually found that one stick was bad. I currently have two of those sticks running at 4000, 17-17-17-37 with nice tight timings and it was easy to get stable. But alas, I'd rather have 32GB so I'm going to return OR RMA these and get something else and am trying to decide which route to go. My ASRock Z390 Taichi seems to be quite good at overclocking two sticks, unsure about 4 sticks, but I can't find [email protected] or [email protected] in 2x16, only in 4x8. Not sure which way to go. Any thoughts?


I have this kit: F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK same spec's as the sw. You have seen my overclock but here is a screen shot in the spoiler below.


Spoiler


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> I have this kit: F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK same spec's as the sw. You have seen my overclock but here is a screen shot in the spoiler below.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Yes, thx. I have a print-out of your timings from earlier attempts on my 4x8. The 3600/16 4x8 set is also $50 less than the 3733/17 set. I'm still wondering if it's easier or harder to overclock 4x8 vs. 2x16?

FYI, is there something wrong with the read, copy, write speed in your AIDA64 benchmark screen shot?


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> Yes, thx. I have a print-out of your timings from earlier attempts on my 4x8. The 3600/16 4x8 set is also $50 less than the 3733/17 set. I'm still wondering if it's easier or harder to overclock 4x8 vs. 2x16?
> 
> FYI, is there something wrong with the read, copy, write speed in your AIDA64 benchmark screen shot?


It's easier to OC 8's than 16's. No, they are all above 102 GB/s not MB/s.


----------



## jfriend00

CptSpig said:


> It's easier to OC 8's than 16's. No, they are all above 102 GB/s not MB/s.


Woah, that's crazy fast. Now I remember, you're on Core X.


----------



## Jpmboy

Nizzen said:


> 2x 3600 c15
> 2x 4000 c17
> 2x 4266 c19
> 
> Tnx, I'm checking tras?
> 
> Love the board, and can benchmark 4400 c16 easy
> 
> On my x299 Apex, the 4000 raja preset works like an dream .


yeah - the gene is the ram king this 'round. 


kignt said:


> I've always worried hwinfo's polling might affect performance, so I always have it set at 2000ms or 2sec. But I guess that didn't matter in my situation. I'm hoping my error was random or fluke, so I'm testing again.
> 
> *This thread is really awesome. I originally thought my kit was stuck at 3800c16 or 4000c19*.


 that's what it's all about.



jfriend00 said:


> I'm looking for 3600/16 or 3733/17 Samsung b-die 2x16GB sticks (32GB total). My theory was that 2x16 might be easier to overclock than 4x8. They are hard to find. My goal is to OC to something like 4000/17.
> 
> NewEgg has a G.Skill F4-3733C17D-32GTZSW - 2x16GB 3733 with timings of 17-19-19-39. Is that b-die or do the non-equal timings indicate it's not b-die?
> 
> Which of these would I be better off with when trying to OC to 4000/17 or 4100/18 on a ASRock Z390 Taichi:
> 
> G.Skill TridentZ - F4-3733C17D-32GTZSW - 2x16, 3733, 17-19-19-39
> G.Skill TridentZ - F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK - 4x8, 3733, 17-17-17-37
> G.SKill TridentZ - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZSW - 4x8, 3600, 16-16-16-36
> 
> For background, I bought a 4x8 3733 17-17-17-37 and could not even get it stable at 3733 even at 1.45V until I eventually found that one stick was bad. I currently have two of those sticks running at 4000, 17-17-17-37 with nice tight timings and it was easy to get stable. But alas, I'd rather have 32GB so I'm going to return OR RMA these and get something else and am trying to decide which route to go. My ASRock Z390 Taichi seems to be quite good at overclocking two sticks, unsure about 4 sticks, but I can't find [email protected] or [email protected] in 2x16, only in 4x8. Not sure which way to go. Any thoughts?


4x8GB 3600c16-16-16. you will not OC 2 hi density sticks as easily - that's buying 2 keys to the rabbit hole for sure. Not impossible, but will require _really _advanced knowledge that is not common in any thread (e.g., someone like Praz for example).


----------



## ESRCJ

I seem to have resolved my training drift issue. I had training enabled in the BIOS along with Advanced Training for each channel. I put Training on auto and left Advanced Training enabled and the drift is no longer a factor. RTLs are the same after every boot now. Having both enabled must have thrown things off, with one offsetting to other I guess. 

So now I find myself unable to get 4000 stable again. I RMAed my original kit which was able to do it, but the replacement can't with the same exact settings. I pumped more voltage into everything relevant for memory overclocking with many different combos along with different timings, but no luck. I'm considering getting the Trident Z RGB 32GB 4000 CL17 1.35V kit and selling my current kit. I feel like I've invested too much time in memory overclocking to be held back by my kit. Then again, it all comes back down to whether or not this mobo is lackluster for memory overclocking or if my IMC is the issue.


----------



## baird gow

*Overclocking Corsair Vengence RGB 4x8 3600mhz kit*

Hello there,
I currently have a 9900k @ stock on a asus maximus formula xi. I have a 4x8 kit of corsair vengence rgb in it. Both default xmp profiles are unstable. I moved the DRAM voltage from 1.35V to 1.38V and am currently running memtest. Does anyone have input on what I should try after this? I have never been into memory overclocking so I'm trying to learn.
Thanks,
B


----------



## wingman99

baird gow said:


> Hello there,
> I currently have a 9900k @ stock on a asus maximus formula xi. I have a 4x8 kit of corsair vengence rgb in it. Both default xmp profiles are unstable. I moved the DRAM voltage from 1.35V to 1.38V and am currently running memtest. Does anyone have input on what I should try after this? I have never been into memory overclocking so I'm trying to learn.
> Thanks,
> B


Try 1.4v DRAM voltag. Then Vccio Stock Intel 0.950v Auto to 1.165v, Vccsa (System Agent) stock Intel 1.050v Auto to 1.248v


----------



## StrongForce

Hey guys, I need backup .. 

I got a 6700k @ 4.8ghz and a MSI z270 Titanium, memory supports up to 4133, and I'm trying to get my G-Skill 4266mhz kit to run at a decent speed, however I've been having troubles, spent lots of hours testing different VCCSA VCCIO voltages, even tryed some stupid high just to see if I could get it run. 

It seems as soon as I up the ram voltage I can't get anything stable ..but the kit is rated 1.35 I believe, on auto it stays at 1.408

I would have thought it would be easer to be honest, so far I have been able to run a somewhat stable 3600 CL16 but I want to push it more, after all I come from a 3200kit ehe

I tryed to mess arround with the timings a bit but since I don't know much about it, it's a bit too random.. I believe by default my secondary timings etc are screwed up, I managed to make it run somewhat stable at 3850 and fairly high VCCSA / VCCIO (I think I had to go up to 1.47 but I read it could not be so safe..) but couldn't get something stable, at 4000 I managed to boot and get something not so stable but the benchmarks I ran were pretty good though so it would be nice to hit something arround this range.

I haven't messed with other settings much, I tryed to learn some from the Raja guides and whatnot but .. RAM OC is not an easy topic.. quite the headache and time consuming, next mobo upgrade I'll make sure my RAM is on the QVL !

Is there any guide for RAM OC/timings out there people recommend ?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jidonsu said:


> I'll take it.




@Jpmboy any suggestions on changes I could make?


----------



## Jidonsu

KedarWolf said:


>


Rub it in, why don't you. 

Do you think increasing my tRefi will help? I'm currently getting a 50 degree max temp when I'm stability testing the ram, but in games, it's low 40s. It drops to low 30s if I just point a fan at it.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jidonsu said:


> Rub it in, why don't you.
> 
> Do you think increasing my tRefi will help? I'm currently getting a 50 degree max temp when I'm stability testing the ram, but in games, it's low 40s. It drops to low 30s if I just point a fan at it.


My RAM gets errors above 40C but I have a 3500 RPM G.Skill RAM ran over mine.

tREFI only really helps in benches and above say 22066 you're risking the chance of having RAM errors.


----------



## Jidonsu

KedarWolf said:


> My RAM gets errors above 40C but I have a 3500 RPM G.Skill RAM ran over mine.
> 
> tREFI only really helps in benches and above say 22066 you're risking the chance of having RAM errors.


Good to know. Mine runs at 50 degrees and doesn't seem to error out even after 18000%


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> My RAM gets errors above 40C but I have a 3500 RPM G.Skill RAM ran over mine.
> 
> tREFI only really helps in benches and above say 22066 you're risking the chance of having RAM errors.


I decided that a DRAM OC that was only stable below 40C just wouldn't be stable for me because ambient varies enough that I don't think it could be kept below 40C in all circumstances unless it was hooked up to a waterblock (I'm air cooling). I am going to work on the case airflow (probably relocate some hard drives) to get much better airflow over the motherboard and that may help some, but I'm not counting on keeping my DIMMs below 40C with summer ambient and air cooling only. Fortunately, the two good DIMMs I'm running now from my 4 stick set do not seem picky about temperature at all. I'm hoping to find two more that are similar.


----------



## jfriend00

*Why is faster speed slower?*

I'm working on overclocking a G.Skill 2x8 set that is XMP rated for [email protected] I got it quickly stable at [email protected] and then decided to see how much higher I could go. It was stable at [email protected] or [email protected], but the memory write and copy speeds were significantly lower. I'm looking for some help as to why? And, what can I do to fix that to take advantage of the higher speed?

As an example, the Memory Write speed went from 57,248 MB/s to 41,088 MB/s.

The system is ASRock Z390 Taichi with [email protected] DRAM voltage is 1.40V.

Here are the 4000MHz speeds/timings:

















And, the slower 4133MHz speeds/timings:

















Except for the primary timings, these timings are all auto-selected by the BIOS. My general process for memory overclocking is to start with loose timings (usually from "auto" selection), establish stability and then tighten up timings to improve performance, establishing stability after each change.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> I'm working on overclocking a G.Skill 2x8 set that is XMP rated for [email protected] I got it quickly stable at [email protected] and then decided to see how much higher I could go. It was stable at [email protected] or [email protected], but the memory write and copy speeds were significantly lower. I'm looking for some help as to why? And, what can I do to fix that to take advantage of the higher speed?
> 
> As an example, the Memory Write speed went from 57,248 MB/s to 41,088 MB/s.
> 
> The system is ASRock Z390 Taichi with [email protected] DRAM voltage is 1.40V.
> 
> Here are the 4000MHz speeds/timings:
> 
> 
> 
> And, the slower 4133MHz speeds/timings:
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the primary timings, these timings are all auto-selected by the BIOS. My general process for memory overclocking is to start with loose timings (usually from "auto" selection), establish stability and then tighten up timings to improve performance, establishing stability after each change.


it not uncommon when the timings are clashing at the higher frequency. The auto rules are not going to provide efficient timings at all (high) frequencies... those RTLs and IOLs are from auto with both frequencies?


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> it not uncommon when the timings are clashing at the higher frequency. The auto rules are not going to provide efficient timings at all (high) frequencies... those RTLs and IOLs are from auto with both frequencies?


Yes, they are auto. I can't really figure out how to set RTL and IO-L in my Taichi board as it has one edit field for two values (subject of a different question) so all I can use now is auto. 

Logically the 4133 RTL/IO-L values are a little bit higher than they were for 4000 (where things are stable and fast) so it doesn't look like they are way off.


----------



## kongasdf

kignt said:


> Teamgroup 2x8gb 3200c14 @4000c16-17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ram test up to 12000%, then an error... Might have to retest cpu oc.
> HCI 500%.
> Was aiming for under 40ns, but idk what to further tweak. Tried cache at 48x but didn't seem to affect latency as much as I hoped.


Hi,

Where can I download the MemTest program to run multiple HCI memtest?


----------



## KedarWolf

kongasdf said:


> Hi,
> 
> Where can I download the MemTest program to run multiple HCI memtest?


 I have AutoHotKey scripts i copied from another user, I forget who, and edited them for a 9900k. It'll open 16 instances of HCI MemTest Free or Pro spaced neatly and evenly using 90% of your RAM for 32GB of RAM. For 16GB of RAM try changing 1731 to 751. 

You want to run once instance for each thread of your CPU.

Download and install AutoHotKey from here. https://www.autohotkey.com/

Right click on your Memtest folder and 'New' "AutoHotKey Script'. Right click on the script and choose 'Run Script' after editing the script like below.

*Edit the script and add the below code for the free version of Memtest.
*



Code:


xpos = 3
ypos = 5
Loop, 16
{
  if (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 18)
  {
    xpos = 4
    ypos += 370
  }

  Run, memtest.exe
  WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
  Send {Enter}
  sleep 100
  WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
  Send 1731{Tab}{Enter}
  WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
  Send {Enter}

   xpos += 222
}

*For the pro version.*



Code:


memory = 1731
rows = 4
columns = 4
hspacing = 0.8
vspacing = 0.8

y = 5
Loop, %rows%
{
  x = 3
  Loop, %columns%
  {
    Sleep 500
    Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
    Sleep 500
    WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 500
    WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 500
    WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
    x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
  }
  y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
}


----------



## SoldierRBT

Hi, 

I got 2 memory kits and don't know which to keep.
- The first kit is a 16GB (2x8GB) G.Skill RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR. It can run stable at 4000MHz 17-17-17-37 1.4V. It can probably do 4133MHz CL17 but needs a little more of tweaking.
- The second kit is a 32GB (2x16GB) G.Skill RGB F4-3200C14-32GTZR. It can do 3733MHZ 17-17-17-37 stable at 1.4V and can problably do 3866MHz with the same timings. 

I use my computer just for gaming. (Both kits cost me basically the same). Which one should I keep? and are these okay overclocks? This is my first time overclocking memory ram. I kept CPU SA 1.20v and CPU IO 1.15v for both kits. 

Thanks


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> Teamgroup 2x8gb 3200c14 @4000c16-17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ram test up to 12000%, then an error... Might have to retest cpu oc.
> HCI 500%.
> Was aiming for under 40ns, but idk what to further tweak. Tried cache at 48x but didn't seem to affect latency as much as I hoped.


I'm running similar RAM chips on a Z390 Taichi at 4000 also. I'd suggest several things. To improve long term stability, set tRFC=350 and tREFI=25000. These are both related to refreshing the tiny memory capacitors and if you set tRFC too low, then (particularly as the RAM chips heat up) you may have a cell whose leakage current is too high and you lose a bit.  I'm running the same Samsung B-die as you and can pass RAMTest at 30,000% with these two values and if you look at lots of other recent posts about people running those chips in the same speed range, you will usually see numbers around 350/25000. For reference, tRFC is how long it takes to refresh a row of memory and tREFI is how often you need to do the refresh. If you don't refresh it long enough or wait too long to refresh it, you can run the risk of the tiny leakage current losing the charge and the charge value falling below the voltage threshold.

It also appears that your tFAW number is too low for long term safety. Mine is set to 24. I don't recall right now, but there's a formula based on other numbers that says what's the smallest that tFAW could be (which I can't find right now). It sets a limit on how quickly four separate rows in the same rank can be activated in order to maintain stability. It doesn't do any good to set it lower than the four activates could happen anyway and some chips need it slightly longer than that just to prevent running out of current for the activations. 

As for improving performance further, some things you can try are raising tWTR_L to 15. For some (unexplained) reason, my performance numbers got worse when I lowered tWTR_L like you have. But, definitely test your performance numbers after changing to see.

Then try lowering your tCWL to 14 or 15 and test that for performance and stability. Here are my numbers:


----------



## kignt

kongasdf said:


> Hi,
> 
> Where can I download the MemTest program to run multiple HCI memtest?


The one I used is from the reddit sub r/overclocking 's discord > channel #ram-oc > pinned messages. It's Integral's memtest helper


----------



## kignt

jfriend00 said:


> I'm running similar RAM chips on a Z390 Taichi at 4000 also. I'd suggest several things. To improve long term stability, set tRFC=350 and tREFI=25000. These are both related to refreshing the tiny memory capacitors and if you set tRFC too low, then (particularly as the RAM chips heat up) you may have a cell whose leakage current is too high and you lose a bit. I'm running the same Samsung B-die as you and can pass RAMTest at 30,000% with these two values and if you look at lots of other recent posts about people running those chips in the same speed range, you will usually see numbers around 350/25000. For reference, tRFC is how long it takes to refresh a row of memory and tREFI is how often you need to do the refresh. If you don't refresh it long enough or wait too long to refresh it, you can run the risk of the tiny leakage current losing the charge and the charge value falling below the voltage threshold.
> 
> It also appears that your tFAW number is too low for long term safety. Mine is set to 24. I don't recall right now, but there's a formula based on other numbers that says what's the smallest that tFAW could be (which I can't find right now). It sets a limit on how quickly four separate rows in the same rank can be activated in order to maintain stability. It doesn't do any good to set it lower than the four activates could happen anyway and some chips need it slightly longer than that just to prevent running out of current for the activations.
> 
> As for improving performance further, some things you can try are raising tWTR_L to 15. For some (unexplained) reason, my performance numbers got worse when I lowered tWTR_L like you have. But, definitely test your performance numbers after changing to see.
> 
> Then try lowering your tCWL to 14 or 15 and test that for performance and stability. Here are my numbers:


Thanks! I tried to keep most timings near minimum or jedec spec. The values will make sense if you look over sdch's post from 1/1/19 and other posts that reveal formulas. Like, tWR and tCWL adding up to tWRPRE - 4. Since I couldn't adjust tWRPRE directly, I just tried to indirectly keep it around Raja's preset: 31. Or, both WTR's controlled by WRRD_sg and WRRD_dg. Jpmboy also suggested trying with lowered tCWL 14. I did, and it passed overnight ramtest








Some time later, after some minor changes, os 'optimizing' or disabling features/services, I finally saw sub-40ns, but only by a little bit, 39.4ns some times. Tried retesting with HCI, but it wasn't passing 200-300% anymore. Tried different reference base clock, but no difference. Until raised tCWL again to 16, the test could overnight. Seems tWRPRE: 30 might be minimum for my kit. Tried raising tWR with CWL:14 for a tWRPRE:30 or more, but I think it didn't work, and I forgot to log the attempt. 








Unfortunately, my setup lacks temp sensor for ram. Couldn't check that as KedarWolf suggested.


----------



## rv8000

So after about 50 hours of testing I've gotten my G.Skill F4-3600C17D-16GTZR (17-18-18-38 @ 1.35v default), 1200% memtest stable @ 4000 17-18-18-38 2T 1.46vdimm and vccio/sa @ 1.23v; Aorus Master and 8700k @ stock. Some odd things I've noticed is that the dimms will instantly error above 1.48v regardless of timings/clocks, and the kit refuses to boot @ 1T above 3866.

I'm just looking for some help or pointers on where I can tighten secondary and tertiary timings to really lock the oc down. Currently everything aside from primary timings, CR, and tRFC (xmp tRFC for the kit is 671). are set to auto. So what would be the best timings to tackle first, or easiest to adjust without requiring a lot more voltage?


----------



## Jidonsu

rv8000 said:


> So after about 50 hours of testing I've gotten my G.Skill F4-3600C17D-16GTZR (17-18-18-38 @ 1.35v default), 1200% memtest stable @ 4000 17-18-18-38 2T 1.46vdimm and vccio/sa @ 1.23v; Aorus Master and 8700k @ stock. Some odd things I've noticed is that the dimms will instantly error above 1.48v regardless of timings/clocks, and the kit refuses to boot @ 1T above 3866.
> 
> I'm just looking for some help or pointers on where I can tighten secondary and tertiary timings to really lock the oc down. Currently everything aside from primary timings, CR, and tRFC (xmp tRFC for the kit is 671). are set to auto. So what would be the best timings to tackle first, or easiest to adjust without requiring a lot more voltage?


Is that a single kit with 2 sticks, or did you do two kits for a total of 4?

For reference, I'm able to run 4000 16-16-16-36 on my Aorus Master at 1.45V, but I did get the 4x8 kit of 4000C17 to start with.


----------



## Jpmboy

kignt said:


> Thanks! I tried to keep most timings near minimum or jedec spec. The values will make sense if you look over sdch's post from 1/1/19 and other posts that reveal formulas. Like, tWR and tCWL adding up to tWRPRE - 4. Since I couldn't adjust tWRPRE directly, I just tried to indirectly keep it around Raja's preset: 31. Or, both WTR's controlled by WRRD_sg and WRRD_dg. Jpmboy also suggested trying with lowered tCWL 14. I did, and it passed overnight ramtest
> 
> Some time later, after some minor changes, os 'optimizing' or disabling features/services, I finally saw sub-40ns, but only by a little bit, 39.4ns some times. Tried retesting with HCI, but it wasn't passing 200-300% anymore. Tried different reference base clock, but no difference. Until raised tCWL again to 16, the test could overnight. Seems tWRPRE: 30 might be minimum for my kit. Tried raising tWR with CWL:14 for a tWRPRE:30 or more, but I think it didn't work, and I forgot to log the attempt.
> 
> Unfortunately, my setup lacks temp sensor for ram. Couldn't check that as KedarWolf suggested.


Bro - you went down and climbed right out of the rabbit hole. Nice job! :thumb:
+rep if I could.


----------



## rv8000

Jidonsu said:


> Is that a single kit with 2 sticks, or did you do two kits for a total of 4?
> 
> For reference, I'm able to run 4000 16-16-16-36 on my Aorus Master at 1.45V, but I did get the 4x8 kit of 4000C17 to start with.


Single 2x8GB kit.


----------



## Jidonsu

rv8000 said:


> Single 2x8GB kit.


Maybe these are a start.


----------



## kongasdf

KedarWolf said:


> I have AutoHotKey scripts i copied from another user, I forget who, and edited them for a 9900k. It'll open 16 instances of HCI MemTest Free or Pro spaced neatly and evenly using 90% of your RAM for 32GB of RAM. For 16GB of RAM try changing 1731 to 751.
> 
> You want to run once instance for each thread of your CPU.
> 
> Download and install AutoHotKey from here. https://www.autohotkey.com/
> 
> Right click on your Memtest folder and 'New' "AutoHotKey Script'. Right click on the script and choose 'Run Script'.
> 
> *Edit the script and add the below code for the free version of Memtest.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 16
> {
> if (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 18)
> {
> xpos = 4
> ypos += 370
> }
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1731{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> xpos += 222
> }
> 
> *For the pro version.*
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> memory = 1731
> rows = 4
> columns = 4
> hspacing = 0.8
> vspacing = 0.8
> 
> y = 5
> Loop, %rows%
> {
> x = 3
> Loop, %columns%
> {
> Sleep 500
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
> Sleep 500
> WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
> x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
> }
> y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
> }


Thx


----------



## kongasdf

kignt said:


> The one I used is from the reddit sub r/overclocking 's discord > channel #ram-oc > pinned messages. It's Integral's memtest helper


Thx, It's quite a slim app.


----------



## Timur Born

What is tCCD_S and tCCD_L?

And why does the Asrock Timing Configurator display tWTR_L = 16 and tWTR_S = 8 on my GB Aorus Master regardless of what I set in BIOS?


----------



## Jidonsu

Timur Born said:


> What is tCCD_S and tCCD_L?
> 
> And why does the Asrock Timing Configurator display tWTR_L = 16 and tWTR_S = 8 on my GB Aorus Master regardless of what I set in BIOS?


Did you disable fast memory boot to force retraining?


----------



## sdch

Timur Born said:


> What is tCCD_S and tCCD_L?
> 
> And why does the Asrock Timing Configurator display tWTR_L = 16 and tWTR_S = 8 on my GB Aorus Master regardless of what I set in BIOS?


Lower tWRRD_sg to lower tWTR_L.
Lower tWRRD_dg to lower tWTR_S.

Not sure about the others. Timings that refer to tCCD_L are always 6-7. Timings that refer to tCCD_S are always 4.


----------



## kruger-druger

Hi guys. Need for advice. I'm overclocking my Kingston HyperX Fury 2400MHz, 4x8GB sticks, dual rank Hynix-A chips. i7 6700k 4.7GHz 1.4V Vcore, 1.2V VSSA, 1.2V VCCIO, Asus VIII Hero, Mode 2. Last few months I was able to get only 3000MHz 14-15-15-32 on 1.35V. Few days ago I managed to achieve 3200MHz 16-17-17-38 but only on 1.5-1.51V. So this voltage is enough for perfect tests passing: HCI 400%, MemTest86. But there are troubles while booting. 60% of times I had 55 error code. I tuned DRAM VRM frequency from 300kHz to 450kHz and turned off the setting called something like "Full Memory Stability Testing on Boot". Things became better but the issue still exists. Sometimes 55 code appears. So could you advice how to increase booting stability? I feel that DRAM voltage is enough, even could be lower for tests/everyday use. Maybe things like VTT voltage or some other voltages could help?

PS. I'm tuning only primary timings for now. After stabilizing will go further


----------



## KedarWolf

kruger-druger said:


> Hi guys. Need for advice. I'm overclocking my Kingston HyperX Fury 2400MHz, 4x8GB sticks, dual rank Hynix-A chips. i7 6700k 4.7GHz 1.4V Vcore, 1.2V VSSA, 1.2V VCCIO, Asus VIII Hero, Mode 2. Last few months I was able to get only 3000MHz 14-15-15-32 on 1.35V. Few days ago I managed to achieve 3200MHz 16-17-17-38 but only on 1.5-1.51V. So this voltage is enough for perfect tests passing: HCI 400%, MemTest86. But there are troubles while booting. 60% of times I had 55 error code. I tuned DRAM VRM frequency from 300kHz to 450kHz and turned off the setting called something like "Full Memory Stability Testing on Boot". Things became better but the issue still exists. Sometimes 55 code appears. So could you advice how to increase booting stability? I feel that DRAM voltage is enough, even could be lower for tests/everyday use. Maybe things like VTT voltage or some other voltages could help?
> 
> PS. I'm tuning only primary timings for now. After stabilizing will go further


These are the voltages i change to get 4133MHZ stable on my G.Skill 3200 CL14.


----------



## kruger-druger

Thanks, I'll try something like this. Also decided to try only 2 sticks. I do mainly gaming so no need for 4x8GB now.


----------



## KedarWolf

kruger-druger said:


> Thanks, I'll try something like this. Also decided to try only 2 sticks. I do mainly gaming so no need for 4x8GB now.


Two or four sticks really depend in the topology of the board. Gigabyte and Asus usually use T-Topology on their four DIMM boards so you'll overclock better with four sticks rather then two.

On my T_Topology Z390 Aorus Xtreme the same settings I use for 4133 MHZ and boots and stress tests fine with four DIMMs but won't even boot with just two DIMMs.

That's just leaving settings exactly the same and removing the second and fourth DIMM. 

Edit: And on my old T-Topology Asus Z370 board four CL14 3200 MHZ DIMMs would do 4200 MHZ stable but two 4400 MHZ DIMMs wouldn't even do 4000 stable.


----------



## warbucks

These were just delivered. Time to test them out!


----------



## KedarWolf

warbucks said:


> These were just delivered. Time to test them out!


What speed and stock timings are they?


----------



## anticommon

So I'm trying to tighten the timings on my 3600CL17 HyperX Predator ram, its currently at 4000 17-17-17-36 @ 1.44v. Whenever I try to increase the frequency it does not go up past 4066mhz, and when I try and lower the timings it will reduce the frequency (16-16-16-36 results in 3800mhz when it is set to 4000 in the bios) would anyone know the reason behind this? The motherboard I am using is a Z370 Aorus G7 with a 9900k @ 5.0


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

anticommon said:


> So I'm trying to tighten the timings on my 3600CL17 HyperX Predator ram, its currently at 4000 17-17-17-36 @ 1.44v. Whenever I try to increase the frequency it does not go up past 4066mhz, and when I try and lower the timings it will reduce the frequency (16-16-16-36 results in 3800mhz when it is set to 4000 in the bios) would anyone know the reason behind this? The motherboard I am using is a Z370 Aorus G7 with a 9900k @ 5.0



IDK, but 4000MHz CL17 is pretty good on a 9900k.


----------



## anticommon

MrTOOSHORT said:


> IDK, but 4000MHz CL17 is pretty good on a 9900k.


I tend to agree, doesn't mean I don't want to try for better >


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

I mean you are at your max most likely. I'm at 4000MHz CL16 on my system. Difficult to get more, but haven't dug too deep on the matter. Two 8700ks I had before would do 4400MHz CL17 like nothing on the same Apex X I have today.


----------



## rv8000

So apparently my 12hr memtest run @ ddr4000 17-18-18-38 2T 1.46vdimm 1.23sa/vccio is randomly unstable. I though I had gotten the system stable but it will randomly black screen (anywhere from 2 minutes to 12 hours), crash dump, then reboot. As far as I can tell I'm not getting any memory errors during memtest, so is it more likely vccio/sa is my problem?

*8700k and vcore still completely stock


----------



## jfriend00

anticommon said:


> I tend to agree, doesn't mean I don't want to try for better >


I got my B-die to run at [email protected], but I think that's about the limit for those types of chips without slowing down the primary timings in order to go faster. I also got mine to run at [email protected], but the write and copy speeds (from AIDA64 memory benchmark) were slower at 4100. I could not find any timings that mine would run at faster than 4100. So, I decided to just work on speeding things up at [email protected] So, I think you're probably best to concentrate on tightening up the secondaries and tertiaries at your 4000 speed and see if you can improve on the benchmarks.

I don't know why your motherboard appears to be changing things on you. I know that my ASRock Taichi will revert to a safe profile if it can't boot the configuration I'm trying. It tries several times and then reverts to a safe profile So, maybe that type of logic could be involved? Or it's detecting that you're setting invalid timings so it's auto-correcting some?


----------



## jfriend00

rv8000 said:


> So apparently my 12hr memtest run @ ddr4000 17-18-18-38 2T 1.46vdimm 1.23sa/vccio is randomly unstable. I though I had gotten the system stable but it will randomly black screen (anywhere from 2 minutes to 12 hours), crash dump, then reboot. As far as I can tell I'm not getting any memory errors during memtest, so is it more likely vccio/sa is my problem?
> 
> *8700k and vcore still completely stock


Any idea what the DIMM temperatures get to when running that long a test? 

IMO, the one thing that's a bit unrealistic about the really long memory tests are the heating of the DIMMs as it's unlikely many real world activities would stress the DIMMs that way. 

With winter time ambient, mine get to around 42C during a long RAMTest run which means they'll be several degrees above that in summer which isn't "hot" by semiconductor standards for damage, but could be effecting a few timings like tRFC/tREFI and perhaps some other timings because as DRAM gets hotter, properties change ever so slightly.

I have a plan to move some hard drives around to increase case airflow over the DIMMs. Some others install a DIMM fan. I don't personally think the fan is required for my setup. You may also want to see if your case fans are running at a high enough speed during the long RAM test. I don't know which temp probe yours are keying off (motherboard temp or CPU temp), but it's possible that neither of those get very hot (so the case fans don't ever increase their speed), but the DRAM is getting a bit hot.


----------



## warbucks

KedarWolf said:


> What speed and stock timings are they?


4266Mhz 19-19-19-39


----------



## rv8000

jfriend00 said:


> Any idea what the DIMM temperatures get to when running that long a test?
> 
> IMO, the one thing that's a bit unrealistic about the really long memory tests are the heating of the DIMMs as it's unlikely many real world activities would stress the DIMMs that way.
> 
> With winter time ambient, mine get to around 42C during a long RAMTest run which means they'll be several degrees above that in summer which isn't "hot" by semiconductor standards for damage, but could be effecting a few timings like tRFC/tREFI and perhaps some other timings because as DRAM gets hotter, properties change ever so slightly.
> 
> I have a plan to move some hard drives around to increase case airflow over the DIMMs. Some others install a DIMM fan. I don't personally think the fan is required for my setup. You may also want to see if your case fans are running at a high enough speed during the long RAM test. I don't know which temp probe yours are keying off (motherboard temp or CPU temp), but it's possible that neither of those get very hot (so the case fans don't ever increase their speed), but the DRAM is getting a bit hot.


Well thats the thing, it was happening randomly, I ran a test for 12 hours it crashed, then I restarted pc and ran the the bathroom to another black screen. Was happening off cold boots for the pc being off all day during work as well. No specific time or rotation.

I went to check temps during last nights test but whatever sensors are reporting the dimm temps cant be very accurate; dimms were basically ambient temp or a little higher, 26-31c. Case fans have been at max since I swapped to my evolv X last week.

I upped vccio/sa to 1.24v from 1.23 and I'll give it another go. Might find another means to check the temps, not sure if there were probs included with the motherboard.

*I have also since increased my tREFI from 15600 (auto for ddr4000), to 25000


----------



## Jpmboy

anticommon said:


> I tend to agree, doesn't mean I don't want to try for better >


I have a couple of auros x299 here. If their bios "basics" have not changed/evolved, it will default to an Auto freq with tghe manually set timings if the settings/frequency fails POST. you need to raise the timings so the new freq will pass POST then try tightening down... or disable all ram "safetys" in the Bios.


----------



## jfriend00

rv8000 said:


> Well thats the thing, it was happening randomly, I ran a test for 12 hours it crashed, then I restarted pc and ran the the bathroom to another black screen. Was happening off cold boots for the pc being off all day during work as well. No specific time or rotation.
> 
> I went to check temps during last nights test but whatever sensors are reporting the dimm temps cant be very accurate; dimms were basically ambient temp or a little higher, 26-31c. Case fans have been at max since I swapped to my evolv X last week.
> 
> I upped vccio/sa to 1.24v from 1.23 and I'll give it another go. Might find another means to check the temps, not sure if there were probs included with the motherboard.
> 
> *I have also since increased my tREFI from 15600 (auto for ddr4000), to 25000


tREFI is safer at a lower value (though I'm running with mine at 25000 so that's probably OK). It represents the amount of time between memory cell refreshes. Maybe you could post a screenshot from the ASrock Timing Configuration of all the timings.


----------



## rv8000

jfriend00 said:


> tREFI is safer at a lower value (though I'm running with mine at 25000 so that's probably OK). It represents the amount of time between memory cell refreshes. Maybe you could post a screenshot from the ASrock Timing Configuration of all the timings.


Here's what I'm going to run overnight.


----------



## Dwofzz

I'm thinking about changing my G.skill Trident Z 3600MHz CL16-16-16-36 to either 4000MHz CL17-17-17-37 or 4266MHz CL19-19-19-39, since the kit I got needs quait a lot of voltage at the same settings as other people are getting with far less voltage (people with similar systems and the same kit of ram). 
So if any of you have any experience with either of these kits let me know! 🙂


----------



## Jpmboy

Dwofzz said:


> I'm thinking about changing my G.skill Trident Z 3600MHz CL16-16-16-36 to either 4000MHz CL17-17-17-37 or 4266MHz CL19-19-19-39, since the kit I got needs quait a lot of voltage at the same settings as other people are getting with far less voltage (people with similar systems and the same kit of ram).
> So if any of you have any experience with either of these kits let me know! 🙂


 both are fine. I have the 4400c19 kit and it runs 4400+ on my Z370 board.
What voltage do you think is "quite high"?


----------



## Dwofzz

Jpmboy said:


> Dwofzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about changing my G.skill Trident Z 3600MHz CL16-16-16-36 to either 4000MHz CL17-17-17-37 or 4266MHz CL19-19-19-39, since the kit I got needs quait a lot of voltage at the same settings as other people are getting with far less voltage (people with similar systems and the same kit of ram).
> So if any of you have any experience with either of these kits let me know! 🙂
> 
> 
> 
> both are fine. I have the 4400c19 kit and it runs 4400+ on my Z370 board.
> What voltage do you think is "quite high"?
Click to expand...

Well it doesn't like anything above 3733MHz CL16 with under 1.5v and I do need 2.05v for 4000MHz CL12-12-12-28.. 12-11-11-11 is a no-go, it likes 3733MHz CL16 with 1.4v but anything higher/ tighter needs a lot of voltage -_-


----------



## StrongForce

So, after carrying out some research, turns out my motherboard (MSI z270 titanium) doesn't support more than 3600 RAM with 6th gen processor .. ([email protected])

After doing some tests, I seem to be pretty stable at 3600 CL15-15-15-40-313 BUT.. the only problem is I had to set the VCCSA stupid high.. it's currently at 1.48 on Hwinfo and the IO at 1.4.. I know it's probably quite above the recommended voltage, I heard that anything above 1.3 could be dangerous for the chip lifespan , I don't know what's the general consensus about this here.. or perhaps you guys got the Tuning insurance ? or simply don't care, but I noticed most of you run pretty safe voltages like 1.22 ish, even at 4000++ 

Is this too high ? am I gonna fry stuff ? 

I plan to upgrade with Ryzen 3000, with hope that the memory support will be good.. 

But I'm also tempted to upgrade to a 9700k, the problem is, the only boards that are on the QVL of this RAM (G SKill 4266mhz 19-19-19-39) are 300+ and I'm not sure I want to spend so much on a board, so my question is, do you need to have a board with QVL comptability ? or could I try on another cheaper board with high memory OC capability ?

I know it's also dependent of the CPU memory controller too.. 

I'd go for the MSI ACE z390 if I'd upgrade.. thoughts on this board ? ( a friend just ordered this with the same kit as mine for a 9900k hope it's gonna be good ..)

also I heard that the XMP profiles set stupid high VCCSA and IO speeds by default that could burn your chip over time.. 

Not sure what to do, might aswell keep this stuff for now and wait to see Ryzen 3000 ..rise and shine


----------



## Jpmboy

StrongForce said:


> So, after carrying out some research, turns out my motherboard (MSI z270 titanium) doesn't support more than 3600 RAM with 6th gen processor .. ([email protected])
> 
> After doing some tests, I seem to be pretty stable at 3600 CL15-15-15-40-313 BUT.. the only problem is I had to set the VCCSA stupid high.. it's currently at 1.48 on Hwinfo and the IO at 1.4.. I know it's probably quite above the recommended voltage, I heard that anything above 1.3 could be dangerous for the chip lifespan , I don't know what's the general consensus about this here.. or perhaps you guys got the Tuning insurance ? or simply don't care, but I noticed most of you run pretty safe voltages like 1.22 ish, even at 4000++
> 
> Is this too high ? am I gonna fry stuff ?
> 
> I plan to upgrade with Ryzen 3000, with hope that the memory support will be good..
> 
> But I'm also tempted to upgrade to a 9700k, the problem is, the only boards that are on the QVL of this RAM (G SKill 4266mhz 19-19-19-39) are 300+ and I'm not sure I want to spend so much on a board, so my question is, do you need to have a board with QVL comptability ? or could I try on another cheaper board with high memory OC capability ?
> 
> I know it's also dependent of the CPU memory controller too..
> 
> I'd go for the MSI ACE z390 if I'd upgrade.. thoughts on this board ? ( a friend just ordered this with the same kit as mine for a 9900k hope it's gonna be good ..)
> 
> also I heard that the XMP profiles set stupid high VCCSA and IO speeds by default that could burn your chip over time..
> 
> Not sure what to do, might aswell keep this stuff for now and wait to see Ryzen 3000 ..rise and shine


I do not think there will be any debate... 1.48V VSA is VERY high for that (or any) 24/7 ram frequency. The Intel tuning plan gets you a new chip... once. I'd lower that VSA soon.


----------



## StrongForce

Ok mate yeah you're right, I was going to, I just wanted to try something stable at 3600 with low timings, I had it somewhat stable at 1.42 but I had to bump it to get 100% stable, it seems I will have to sacrifice some timings to lower that, how much you'd say to be the minimum safest ? 

Also I don't have the insurance for this 1 I had bought it for the 6600k 

EDIT: 30mn stable on memtest 1.27 VCCSA/IO CL-16, that doesn't seem too bad ! crossing fingers.. I think if I remember correctly Raja mentioned somewhere not venturing too far from 1.3v, I suppose 1.3 is somewhat safe then.


----------



## Jpmboy

StrongForce said:


> Ok mate yeah you're right, I was going to, I just wanted to try something stable at 3600 with low timings, I had it somewhat stable at 1.42 but I had to bump it to get 100% stable, it seems I will have to sacrifice some timings to lower that, how much you'd say to be the minimum safest ?
> 
> Also I don't have the insurance for this 1 I had bought it for the 6600k
> 
> EDIT: 30mn stable on memtest 1.27 VCCSA/IO CL-16, that doesn't seem too bad ! crossing fingers.. I think if I remember correctly Raja mentioned somewhere not venturing too far from 1.3v, I suppose 1.3 is somewhat safe then.


1.3V VSA is my 24/7 ceiling. What vdimm? this can go to 1.4V+ for 24/7. May help with the stability more than VSA


----------



## arrow0309

I thought I was 100% stable (lately increased a little bit the vccio):

https://postimg.cc/p9P1xLXQ

Also several h in Realbench passed.
But I still get some game crashes (or freezes) once in a while recently, it looks a little different now with the 2080 ti.

I have 1.45v training and 1.40v eventual voltage, should I increase them (or the second only) or something else?
I'd also like to bump the cache from 3.1 to 3.2 but maybe later.


----------



## StrongForce

Jpmboy said:


> 1.3V VSA is my 24/7 ceiling. What vdimm? this can go to 1.4V+ for 24/7. May help with the stability more than VSA


It's on auto, and shows as 1.408v but from what I've seen so far as soo as I move even by .1 it becomes unstable, sometimes the OS wouldn't even boot ! I don't know what's going on.

I should do more testing but right now I'm stable at least 500% x5 memtest and been playing a few hours without issues, will investigate more the ram voltage thing, perhaps it's a thing of putting too much too, I noticed that when I put like say 1.38 VCCSA it gives more like a 1.4 1.41 so I maybe should try 1.39 mmh. 

I think these kits are rated at 1.35v too but I guess this doesn't mean much

Also I noticed after my gaming session DIMM's going nearly up to 50°c ! wow. and I'm JUST running 3600 lol, of course this could be fixed with a fan, I was just surprised as I seen someone mention they had instability issues about 40+° (but that seems really really low to have issue..)


----------



## Jpmboy

StrongForce said:


> It's on auto, and shows as 1.408v but from what I've seen so far as soo as I move even by .1 it becomes unstable, sometimes the OS wouldn't even boot ! I don't know what's going on.
> 
> I should do more testing but right now I'm stable at least 500% x5 memtest and been playing a few hours without issues, will investigate more the ram voltage thing, perhaps it's a thing of putting too much too, I noticed that when I put like say 1.38 VCCSA it gives more like a 1.4 1.41 so I maybe should try 1.39 mmh.
> 
> I think these kits are rated at 1.35v too but I guess this doesn't mean much
> 
> Also I noticed after my gaming session DIMM's going nearly up to 50°c ! wow. and I'm JUST running 3600 lol, of course this could be fixed with a fan, I was just surprised as I seen someone mention they had instability issues about 40+° (but that seems really really low to have issue..)


if that 1.408V is vsa, it's still too high. Auto and Volt are two four-letter words - not allowed here. 

For any ram freq below 4000 it should require no more than 1.3V VSA (more like 1.25V) and no more than 1.25V VCCIO. Regarding dram voltage (vdimm), I've been running DDR4 for years at vdimm 1.45V with no issues.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

I saw on this topic that it is better to use these rules for some timings



> tFAW> = 4x tRRD (_S)
> tRAS> = CAS + tRCD + tRTP +/- 2
> tWR and tCWL can go 2-4 below case (but not always)


I used the 4000mhz bios ram profile and just change some primary and secondary timings









tRDC and tRP : 18 to 17
tRAS : 41 to 39
TFAW: 20 to 24 (4x tRRD_L ?)

For the TFAW, I do not see the TRRD_S, it is TRRD_L or TRRD ?
But it looks like TRRD (when I look at the timings posted on this topic), should I put the TFAW at 16 or TFAW at 20 (profile value) and TRRD at 5 ?

And is it better to put the tWR and tCWL at 13, 14 or 15 ?

Thanks for your help


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Hello
> 
> I saw on this topic that it is better to use these rules for some timings
> 
> 
> 
> I used the 4000mhz bios ram profile and just change some primary and secondary timings
> 
> View attachment 246894
> 
> 
> tRDC and tRP : 18 to 17
> tRAS : 41 to 39
> TFAW: 20 to 24 (4x tRRD_L ?)
> 
> For the TFAW, I do not see the TRRD_S, it is TRRD_L or TRRD ?
> But it looks like TRRD (when I look at the timings posted on this topic), should I put the TFAW at 16 or TFAW at 20 (profile value) and TRRD at 5 ?
> 
> And is it better to put the tWR and tCWL at 13, 14 or 15 ?
> 
> Thanks for your help


the timings look fine (assuming stability tested). you may be able to run tFAW @ 16 with tRRD at 4. YEs, tRRD ans tRRD_S are the same in this example.


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> the timings look fine (assuming stability tested). you may be able to run tFAW @ 16 with tRRD at 4. YEs, tRRD ans tRRD_S are the same in this example.


Ok thanks :thumb:
If it is not stable, I increase some secondary timings (which ones ?) or is it the VDIMM ?

And for tWR and tCWL is good, then ?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> Ok thanks :thumb:
> If it is not stable, I increase some secondary timings (which ones ?) or is it the VDIMM ?
> 
> And for tWR and tCWL is good, then ?
> 
> Thanks


only testing (stability, performance, etc.) can answer this.


----------



## mAnBrEaTh

Are these RTL and IOL's impacting copy speed? Read = 58000+MB/s, Write = 61000+MB/s, but Copy = 45000 MB/s. Latency 39-40ns BTW. I cannot set RTL / IOL values in bios(z390 Master). No matter the RTL/IOL bios value input nothing changes. I've never seen my Copy speeds above 46000 MB/s and I was wondering if RTL / IOL was the culprit.


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Jpmboy said:


> only testing (stability, performance, etc.) can answer this.


You better watch out, I just snagged a pre-owned 7980XE, gonna stuff the ram slots thusly:

https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q2-64gtzsw

It's in a Gig X299 Gaming 7 Pro board, I see you had a 9. As usual, I'm late to the party and all the 8 ram slot Asus boards are history (they got a RVIE Omega? coming - haven't seen one and it'll no doubt be the better part of a grand) so I'll see if I can get by with the Gigabyte. I've only ever had one other Gig board, a Z79 in my HTPC and nothing in it is overclocked.

Fun and games ahead!


----------



## jfriend00

mAnBrEaTh said:


> Are these RTL and IOL's impacting copy speed? Read = 58000+MB/s, Write = 61000+MB/s, but Copy = 45000 MB/s. Latency 39-40ns BTW. I cannot set RTL / IOL values in bios(z390 Master). No matter the RTL/IOL bios value input nothing changes. I've never seen my Copy speeds above 46000 MB/s and I was wondering if RTL / IOL was the culprit.


Those 85 numbers for D1 look off. I'd expect them to be in the 60s. I'd suggest retraining. You can either turn off the option that saves your training (not sure what it's called on your mobo) or what I do on my (different brand) motherboard is to set RAM back to default settings (not even any XMP), boot into Windows. That will establish a different training. Then, put your memory settings back and boot and it will retrain. Nearly every set of timings I've seen here in the last month for this general type of motherboard has D1 values in the 60s. FYI, your Read, Write and Latency seem good. One would hope to see copy around 54000 or so.


----------



## Jpmboy

GnarlyCharlie said:


> You better watch out, I just snagged a pre-owned 7980XE, gonna stuff the ram slots thusly:
> 
> https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q2-64gtzsw
> 
> It's in a Gig X299 Gaming 7 Pro board, I see you had a 9. As usual, I'm late to the party and all the 8 ram slot Asus boards are history (they got a RVIE Omega? coming - haven't seen one and it'll no doubt be the better part of a grand) so I'll see if I can get by with the Gigabyte. I've only ever had one other Gig board, a Z79 in my HTPC and nothing in it is overclocked.
> 
> Fun and games ahead!


I have the G7 in a HTPC w/ 7740X. Oh... you are gonna have lotsofun with ram on that board. Set expectations so you are not too pissed.


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Jpmboy said:


> I have the G7 in a HTPC w/ 7740X. Oh... you are gonna have lotsofun with ram on that board. Set expectations so you are not too pissed.


My failures at RAM OCing are the stuff of legend. I never did get my 5960X/RVE to run higher than 2666 w/32G, it took all the patience I could muster to just get the 3600 rated RAM to run at 3600 (16G) on my 7700K rig. So yeah, my expectations are already pretty low. Getting it to POST will be a huge accomplishment, anything after that is gravy!


----------



## Jpmboy

GnarlyCharlie said:


> My failures at RAM OCing are the stuff of legend. I never did get my 5960X/RVE to run higher than 2666 w/32G, it took all the patience I could muster to just get the 3600 rated RAM to run at 3600 (16G) on my 7700K rig. So yeah, my expectations are already pretty low.* Getting it to POST will be a huge accomplishment, anything after that is gravy*!


I'm with ya on that!


----------



## CptSpig

GnarlyCharlie said:


> You better watch out, I just snagged a pre-owned 7980XE, gonna stuff the ram slots thusly:
> 
> https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q2-64gtzsw
> 
> It's in a Gig X299 Gaming 7 Pro board, I see you had a 9. As usual, I'm late to the party and all the 8 ram slot Asus boards are history (they got a RVIE Omega? coming - haven't seen one and it'll no doubt be the better part of a grand) so I'll see if I can get by with the Gigabyte. I've only ever had one other Gig board, a Z79 in my HTPC and nothing in it is overclocked.
> 
> Fun and games ahead!


Charlie where have you been? Nice to see you on the forum again! You sure know how to get GPU's to move at super sonic speeds.


----------



## Jpmboy

CptSpig said:


> Charlie where have you been? Nice to see you on the forum again! You sure know how to get GPU's to move at super sonic speeds.


dude has super soldering skills!


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> dude has super soldering skills!


Ya, his power modes do look pretty.


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

This is a bargain basement build, picked up a Titan X Pascal (not Xp) that already has an EK full cover on it, I'll do the shunt mod on it and call it good. Not going 2080 anything just yet.

I generally don't build rigs from used components, but dang those XE CPUs and 2080 cards are spendy.


----------



## Jpmboy

GnarlyCharlie said:


> *This is a bargain basement build*, picked up a Titan X Pascal (not Xp) that already has an EK full cover on it, I'll do the shunt mod on it and call it good. Not going 2080 anything just yet.
> 
> I generally don't build rigs from used components, but dang those XE CPUs and 2080 cards are spendy.



yeah, i did the same. The wife wanted to watch these brit shows on Acorn network. The Sony A8F did not have it built-in...(wth?) Had a 7740X laying around, picked up the giga board and a bargin economy 2x8GB 2400 kit, gtx 1030. Have it running at 3000 with good timings. Plenty quick for an HTPC just to show freakin acorn shows in 4K. But ya know, they can make your life miserable for silly things and she just don't like hockey.


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, i did the same. The wife wanted to watch these brit shows on Acorn network. The Sony A8F did not have it built-in...(wth?) Had a 7740X laying around, picked up the giga board and a bargin economy 2x8GB 2400 kit, gtx 1030. Have it running at 3000 with good timings. Plenty quick for an HTPC just to show freakin acorn shows in 4K. But ya know, they can make your life miserable for silly things and she just don't like hockey.


Happy Wife, happy Life. :worriedsm


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, i did the same. The wife wanted to watch these brit shows on Acorn network. The Sony A8F did not have it built-in...(wth?) Had a 7740X laying around, picked up the giga board and a bargin economy 2x8GB 2400 kit, gtx 1030. Have it running at 3000 with good timings. Plenty quick for an HTPC just to show freakin acorn shows in 4K. But ya know, they can make your life miserable for silly things and she just don't like hockey.


Funny thing is..

You are probably the one guy I figure would have a 7740X in a HTPC!

And hey CptSpig. I kinda lost interest with the site swap a while back, but it seems OK enough now.


----------



## Timur Born

sdch said:


> Lower tWRRD_sg to lower tWTR_L.
> Lower tWRRD_dg to lower tWTR_S.
> 
> Not sure about the others. Timings that refer to tCCD_L are always 6-7. Timings that refer to tCCD_S are always 4.


Thanks, for some reason those timings were set really high by the BIOS memory training back then, but now are back to normal. Anyway, I now set them manually.


----------



## CptSpig

GnarlyCharlie said:


> Funny thing is..
> 
> You are probably the one guy I figure would have a 7740X in a HTPC!
> 
> And hey CptSpig. I kinda lost interest with the site swap a while back, but it seems OK enough now.


At the beginning it really sucked  but you get used to the site. Glad your back! Happy New Year it will be great. :thumb:


----------



## dante`afk

4500 CL17


----------



## kruger-druger

dante`afk said:


> 4500 CL17


And after RAM bench it crashed?


----------



## Goxilih

I need some help with ram oc by myself i achive this https://image.ibb.co...YA/stabilne.jpg its stable and i would like to try oc it higher but it dont post anything above 3866, once i get this https://image.ibb.co/gLt4fq/test4.jpg but it were unstable, i can do sth ?


----------



## jfriend00

Goxilih said:


> I need some help with ram oc by myself i achive this https://image.ibb.co...YA/stabilne.jpg its stable and i would like to try oc it higher but it dont post anything above 3866, once i get this https://image.ibb.co/gLt4fq/test4.jpg but it were unstable, i can do sth ?


Your first link is not readable, please fix.


----------



## Goxilih

Ach sorry https://image.ibb.co/eefuYA/stabilne.jpg should work


----------



## Jpmboy

Goxilih said:


> Ach sorry https://image.ibb.co/eefuYA/stabilne.jpg should work


 just FYI - you can use the picture tool in the OCN editor to drag and drop pictures directly in your post. No need for 3rd party links.
So looking at your settings - what's wrong? seems pretty good. What are you looking to improve?
the first thing before tuning is to find a stable base to build from. Have the settings been run thru ramtest or HCi or GSAT? (see post #1 for these tests).


----------



## Jpmboy

dante`afk said:


> 4500 CL17


 nice, but only meaningful when you include the SPD tab in CPUZ. Lol- if that's one of the new 4600 kits... it's an underclock.


----------



## Goxilih

Jpmboy said:


> just FYI - you can use the picture tool in the OCN editor to drag and drop pictures directly in your post. No need for 3rd party links.
> So looking at your settings - what's wrong? seems pretty good. What are you looking to improve?
> the first thing before tuning is to find a stable base to build from. Have the settings been run thru ramtest or HCi or GSAT? (see post #1 for these tests).




Thats i have atm, my ram can post on 3866 cl 16 but it is not stable, i tryied 5h to post 4000 mhz cl17-18-18 and 19-19-19 and i failed, maybe i am mising something, i tryed diffrent rtl init like 69/70/71 diffrent voltage/vccio/vccsa and anything above 3866 is not achievable, so i would like to stable this 3866 cl 16 if its possible


3866 cl17 are stable 600% hci + games, no problems, today i update bios from 3,1 to 3,4 and i wanna try to do sth with it


----------



## jfriend00

Goxilih said:


> Thats i have atm, my ram can post on 3866 cl 16 but it is not stable, i tryied 5h to post 4000 mhz cl17-18-18 and 19-19-19 and i failed, maybe i am mising something, i tryed diffrent rtl init like 69/70/71 diffrent voltage/vccio/vccsa and anything above 3866 is not achievable, so i would like to stable this 3866 cl 16 if its possible
> 
> 
> 3866 cl17 are stable 600% hci + games, no problems, today i update bios from 3,1 to 3,4 and i wanna try to do sth with it


Keep in mind that overclocking 2x16 is hard so that may be what's keeping you from getting to 4000 (or just the limitations of your sticks). Your AIDA64 transfer times are pretty good already. It's not likely they're going to go up a lot more if you have to relax timings to get to 4000.


----------



## rv8000

Goxilih said:


> Thats i have atm, my ram can post on 3866 cl 16 but it is not stable, i tryied 5h to post 4000 mhz cl17-18-18 and 19-19-19 and i failed, maybe i am mising something, i tryed diffrent rtl init like 69/70/71 diffrent voltage/vccio/vccsa and anything above 3866 is not achievable, so i would like to stable this 3866 cl 16 if its possible
> 
> 
> 3866 cl17 are stable 600% hci + games, no problems, today i update bios from 3,1 to 3,4 and i wanna try to do sth with it


What vccsa and vccio did you go up to?


----------



## dante`afk

kruger-druger said:


> And after RAM bench it crashed?


hm? that's my 24/7 setting. you can see ram bench going through easily no errors. stable.


----------



## dante`afk

Jpmboy said:


> nice, but only meaningful when you include the SPD tab in CPUZ. Lol- if that's one of the new 4600 kits... it's an underclock.


F4-3200C14D-16GTZSK


I have also the 4266 C19 kit here, it would not do the same clocks.


----------



## Goxilih

rv8000 said:


> What vccsa and vccio did you go up to?




For 3866cl 17 like in screen and for 3866 cl 16 atm I am testing at 1,224 and 1,274 1,47v (my Mb set everything 0,24v higher than I set in bios)


I post yesterday 3900 19 19 19 38 nothing lower so maybe that's Wall for my ram. 

I am trying to get stable 3866 cl 16


----------



## dante`afk

4500 CL17 with SPD information and 6 hour stress test


----------



## Jpmboy

dante`afk said:


> 4500 CL17 with SPD information and 6 hour stress test


nice!


----------



## mattliston

If I post some BIOS screen shots, would anyone like to step in and help me getting it running more smoothly?


Asus R5E, BIOS 3801


5930K


two kits Corsair LPX 3000 15-17-17-35 2x8gb (32gb total) CMK16GX4M2B3000C15




Overclocking behavior to 3000 is a challenge, for both individual kits, and all combined. 



SA voltage must be over 1.1, VCCIO CPU/PCH both need at least 1.1, sometimes 1.2, and DRAM always needs ABOVE 1.35v to be stable. 1.38 usually



CPU is overvolted at 1.3v and 4.0ghz to allow some stability, but cores alone are stable beyond 4.5ghz when cache is left at 3ghz.


Currently trying for best performance at "stock" 3000. Stability with less voltage would be awesome lol. It just seems strange that many people can run even 4ghz ram on some intel chips without even touching SA, and here I am, having to slap it for only 3ghz ram with loose timings.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Hi, I got a 16GB kit (2x8GB) 3600MHz CL16 (F4-3600C16-16GTZR) overclocked to 4266MHz 17-17-17-37 1.45v. What settings can I change to improve stability?

Thanks


----------



## jfriend00

SoldierRBT said:


> Hi, I got a 16GB kit (2x8GB) 3600MHz CL16 (F4-3600C16-16GTZR) overclocked to 4266MHz 17-17-17-37 1.45v. What settings can I change to improve stability?
> 
> Thanks


The general process is that you find a set of primary timings at 1.40V or perhaps 1.45V (if you are OK with that) with the rest of the timings on loose "auto" settings that will give you stability with memory stress tests such as RAMTest, PassMark's MemTest86, Google's StressAppTest, etc.... If you aren't stable and you're already at the highest voltage you're comfortable with, then you have to raise primary timings until you get stability. Then, after you have stability with loose (auto) secondary and tertiary timings, you can start trying to tighten down your secondary and tertiary timings to improve performance further while still maintaining stability.

If you make a bunch of changes at once and go from stable to unstable, then there is typically no way to know which part of your change caused the instability. For that reason, I recommend making one change, testing performance, then testing stability. If the performance got worse, put it back (no need to test something for stability that you're not going to keep). Since a solid stability test can take awhile to run, this is a very slow process.

So, if your current set of timings boots, but isn't stable under stress, then you will need revert to looser timings until you get stability back. It looks like you've already tweaked a lot of timings so I have no idea where you should start. I'd probably set everything but the primaries back to "auto", reboot and then test your primaries for stability. If you have stability, then you can start adjusting the secondaries and retesting for stability as you go. If you don't have stability, then you will have to back off your primaries until you have stability. Do primaries first with stability. Then, go to secondaries and tertiaries. Don't try messing with primaries while you have tight secondaries and tertiaries. You won't be able to properly optimize the primaries.


----------



## jfriend00

*Is 1.45V for DDR4 DRAM OK for long term?*

I've been working on optimizing timings for a G.Skill 2x8 kit rated at [email protected] and I've found that I can run [email protected], but only at 1.45V. It will run at [email protected] at 1.40V but the first one is a bit faster.

So, is 1.45V for Samsung B-die safe for the long term (say 5 years)?

I see that G.Skill has kits rated at higher voltages:

[email protected] are XMP rated at 1.45V
[email protected] are XMP rated at 1.50V

And, those come with a lifetime warranty. While these are binned for speed/stability at high speeds, I presume they are made from the same chips as other b-die.

Just to be clear, my kit is rated slower than these and the XMP lists 1.35V for my kit, but I mentioned these as examples of 1.45V and 1.50V in XMP.


----------



## wingman99

jfriend00 said:


> I've been working on optimizing timings for G.Skill 2x8 and I've found that I can run [email protected], but only at 1.45V. It will run at [email protected] at 1.40V but the first one is a bit faster.
> 
> So, is 1.45V for Samsung B-die safe for the long term (say 5 years)?


For 5 years to be on the safe side I would not go over 1.4v.


----------



## jfriend00

wingman99 said:


> For 5 years to be on the safe side I would not go over 1.4v.


What led you to that conclusion?


----------



## CptSpig

jfriend00 said:


> What led you to that conclusion?


You are perfectly safe with 1.45 with that kit long term. :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

Remember guys - the VDIMM "ceiling" is more related to the CPU IMC than to the sticks themselves (which I routinely run at 2.1V, then back to 24/7 settings at 1.45ish volts.) The new CFL CPUs (9700K, 9900K etc) are capable of 1.5V vdimm 24/7 (and higher in a non-XMP OC). Intel works with the DRAM manufacturers to set a limit for VDIMM in the XMPs. On these chips. 1.45V is basically "stock" voltage for DDR4 (not SPD, but XMP).


----------



## NIK1

I am trying to get my memory's Copy speed up a bit more..Can anyone tell me what setting reflects more on copy speed.My read and write speeds are fine just copy seems a tad bit low in cachemem tests..


----------



## jfriend00

NIK1 said:


> I am trying to get my memory's Copy speed up a bit more..Can anyone tell me what setting reflects more on copy speed.My read and write speeds are fine just copy seems a tad bit low in cachemem tests..


Post a screen shot of the AIDA64 speeds and of all your timings so we can compare to other timings. Also, it is expected that copy speed is lower than read and write for a variety of reasons. We need to see your specific situation.


----------



## NIK1

How does this OC look..Does anything look like I can tweak it more,or is it all she wrote..I have tried 4000 but can not get it to boot..Any recommendations on what timings to try for 4000.


----------



## StrongForce

Jpmboy said:


> if that 1.408V is vsa, it's still too high. Auto and Volt are two four-letter words - not allowed here.
> 
> For any ram freq below 4000 it should require no more than 1.3V VSA (more like 1.25V) and no more than 1.25V VCCIO. Regarding dram voltage (vdimm), I've been running DDR4 for years at vdimm 1.45V with no issues.


No I mean the RAM at 1.408 on auto.

I thought I was stable but apparently no! so running more tests.. currently trying at 1.3/1.3 but if it's stable I'll try to roll back the IO


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> How does this OC look..Does anything look like I can tweak it more,or is it all she wrote..I have tried 4000 but can not get it to boot..Any recommendations on what timings to try for 4000.


3866c15 as you have it is very quick... just look at the latency. That copy speed is not something you are gonna feel. And it's only one benchmark. SiSoft Sandra gives a more thorough ram assessment than AID64 if you are interested.


----------



## FroofyBatwyvern

I have a pair of Hynix-based Patriot Viper RGB (2x8GB, XMP is 1.35V 3200MT/s 16-18-18-36) that I've been pushing RAM OCs since last night after topping out on processor and cache ratios.

With the DRAM voltage set to 1.40V and VCCIO and VCCSA left to auto (on this particular combination with a Z390 Aorus Pro Wifi, they're set to 1.24V and 1.25V respectively), I've been tightening the primary timings and been poking at slightly higher speeds, too.


The tightest I could get with the RAM at 3200 MT/s was 14-17-17-34 so far - seems like setting tRCD to 16 simply sets 17 instead (no effect). This passes HCI Memtest for over 1400% coverage overnight without errors.
I'm currently testing a slightly higher MT/s of 3333 while leaving primary timings the same at 16-18-18-36 while I'm not home (at work). When I left, the RAM appeared to be fine at 10% coverage (in my experience, faulty RAM settings will error out immediately, though there's always the odd chance of intermittent errors...).


The reason I'm asking is that it does seem like 3466 is a tough nut to crack even if I scale the primary timings up to match and with a relatively high DRAM voltage of 1.45V - I ended up trying a lesser 3333 MT/s to check for the time being. Any tips to get the RAM to stop erroring out at 3466 MT/s or higher?


----------



## Jpmboy

FroofyBatwyvern said:


> I have a pair of Hynix-based Patriot Viper RGB (2x8GB, XMP is 1.35V 3200MT/s 16-18-18-36) that I've been pushing RAM OCs since last night after topping out on processor and cache ratios.
> 
> With the DRAM voltage set to 1.40V and VCCIO and VCCSA left to auto (on this particular combination with a Z390 Aorus Pro Wifi, they're set to 1.24V and 1.25V respectively), I've been tightening the primary timings and been poking at slightly higher speeds, too.
> 
> 
> The tightest I could get with the RAM at 3200 MT/s was 14-17-17-34 so far - seems like setting tRCD to 16 simply sets 17 instead (no effect). This passes HCI Memtest for over 1400% coverage overnight without errors.
> I'm currently testing a slightly higher MT/s of 3333 while leaving primary timings the same at 16-18-18-36 while I'm not home (at work). When I left, the RAM appeared to be fine at 10% coverage (in my experience, faulty RAM settings will error out immediately, though there's always the odd chance of intermittent errors...).
> 
> 
> The reason I'm asking is that it does seem like 3466 is a tough nut to crack even if I scale the primary timings up to match and with a relatively high DRAM voltage of 1.45V - I ended up trying a lesser 3333 MT/s to check for the time being. *Any tips to get the RAM to stop erroring out at 3466 MT/s or higher*?


did you loosen the timings for 3466?


----------



## FroofyBatwyvern

Jpmboy said:


> did you loosen the timings for 3466?


Did. Used (3466/3200) * 3200 timings rounded up. HCI Memtest errors immediately on a good day; lower than expected clocks (~3300) on a bad day. Maybe I should try even looser timings, or start fiddling with secondary timings?


----------



## Jpmboy

FroofyBatwyvern said:


> Did. Used (3466/3200) * 3200 timings rounded up. HCI Memtest errors immediately on a good day; lower than expected clocks (~3300) on a bad day. Maybe I should try even looser timings, or start fiddling with secondary timings?


set the primary timings +2 on each of CAS, RCD and RP compared to 3200 stable settings. leave everything else on auto (it is best to do a clrcmos for this). start at 1.4V and in crease until 1.45 (or higher if your limit is) until it will boot. Hynix are not going to be a cooperative as sammy B-die, but not impossible. I have a 2400c16 "econo" hynix kit on my x299 G7 HTPC and managed 3000c16, and 3333c18 but the c16 timings had a better latency, so I stuck with that. Squeezing the max out of "marginal" gear is what it's all about!


----------



## FroofyBatwyvern

Jpmboy said:


> set the primary timings +2 on each of CAS, RCD and RP compared to 3200 stable settings. leave everything else on auto (it is best to do a clrcmos for this). start at 1.4V and in crease until 1.45 (or higher if your limit is) until it will boot. Hynix are not going to be a cooperative as sammy B-die, but not impossible. I have a 2400c16 "econo" hynix kit on my x299 G7 HTPC and managed 3000c16, and 3333c18 but the c16 timings had a better latency, so I stuck with that. Squeezing the max out of "marginal" gear is what it's all about!


So the next thing I should try is 3466 MT/s at 16-19-19-Auto (tRAS left at auto instead of a manually set value), if I'm reading it right?


----------



## mattliston

tRAS is almost always perfectly okay in the 20-40 range. Set to 40 and tweak it later.
`

`

`

`

FINALLY got my very weak 5930k's IMC to co-operate with 3ghz CL15. Found a few secondary timings that were FAR tighter than they needed to be (thanks ASUS <sarcasm>)
Pretty massive speed boost in benchmarks when comparing 4ghz core, 3ghz cache, 2133mhz ram to 4ghz core AND cache, and 3ghz ram. More than 25% in AIDA64's benchs.

Now working on 3200 CL16, since I got the "xmp but manual" 3000 15-17-17-35 to run without needing a large bump in SA and IO voltages.


----------



## FroofyBatwyvern

mattliston said:


> tRAS is almost always perfectly okay in the 20-40 range. Set to 40 and tweak it later.


Alright, fingers crossed I'll manage to have a functional 3466 MT/s. And then 3600... hopefully that isn't too high for this kit.

…

Seems like it didn't work out. Even with a super-loose primary timing of 20-22-22-44 and 1.45V on the RAM, HCI Memtest found errors for 3466 MT/s.


----------



## Jpmboy

FroofyBatwyvern said:


> Alright, fingers crossed I'll manage to have a functional 3466 MT/s. And then 3600... hopefully that isn't too high for this kit.
> 
> …
> 
> Seems like it didn't work out. Even with a super-loose primary timing of 20-22-22-44 and 1.45V on the RAM, HCI Memtest found errors for 3466 MT/s.


 20 is right at the chipset max for cas. so 3466 cas 17 does not POST?
and there are only so many timing errors the chipset can correct... you have one right off the bat. 44. tRAS >= cas + rcd + rtp. explained some days ago in this thread.


----------



## mattliston

what does tRFC and tREFI look like?




When I was struggling to get my kits going, I finally realized that an tREFI of 25000 was far too aggressive for my kit, and tRFC was for some reason being set to 384, even with 4 sticks, and not just 2, of ram.


I currently am using something like 416 tRFC and 16000 tREFI for now, until I play with things later for more speed


----------



## jfriend00

mattliston said:


> what does tRFC and tREFI look like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was struggling to get my kits going, I finally realized that an tREFI of 25000 was far too aggressive for my kit, and tRFC was for some reason being set to 384, even with 4 sticks, and not just 2, of ram.
> 
> 
> I currently am using something like 416 tRFC and 16000 tREFI for now, until I play with things later for more speed


Generally, you would pick a conservative value for tRFC and tREFI during initial memory tuning. Those two parameters control the way the DRAM is refreshed and are not related at all to any other parameters. tRFC has a meaningful impact on speed, but the lower you get tRFC, the less tREFI matters (it has only a very small impact). So, I would recommend setting tRFC to something like 600 and tREFI to 12000 as "conservative, safe" values or perhaps even leave them on "auto" initially. Tweak everything else to your liking, then experiment with how low you can get tRFC without error and how high you can get tREFI without error on an extended memory test. Make sure and do a very long memory test to verify your settings for these.

Also, how these values should be set may be affected by the DRAM voltage so make sure you settled on that before you adjust/test these values. Also, they may be impacted slightly by temperature so I wouldn't push them all the way to the edge of what you find stable if you're testing when ambient is a cooler time of the year.


----------



## FroofyBatwyvern

Jpmboy said:


> 20 is right at the chipset max for cas. so 3466 cas 17 does not POST?
> and there are only so many timing errors the chipset can correct... you have one right off the bat. 44. tRAS >= cas + rcd + rtp. explained some days ago in this thread.


Lemme try doing it again later I suppose. 17-19-19-55 and see if it lives?


----------



## jfriend00

FroofyBatwyvern said:


> Lemme try doing it again later I suppose. 17-19-19-55 and see if it lives?


As has happened to many others, the recommended starting point for tRAS is 

cas + tRCD + tRTP

That is NOT 

cas + tRCD + tRP 

which is appears you are using. Look for your tRTP value (read to precharge), not the tRP value (row precharge) which is appears you are using. 55 is way higher than will ever be needed with those timings. Also, many, many systems run fine with a much lower value for tRAS than this formula specifies. The formula is considered a "safe" starting point.


----------



## FroofyBatwyvern

jfriend00 said:


> As has happened to many others, the recommended starting point for tRAS is
> 
> cas + tRCD + tRTP
> 
> That is NOT
> 
> cas + tRCD + tRP
> 
> which is appears you are using. Look for your tRTP value (read to precharge), not the tRP value (row precharge) which is appears you are using. 55 is way higher than will ever be needed with those timings. Also, many, many systems run fine with a much lower value for tRAS than this formula specifies. The formula is considered a "safe" starting point.


So 17-19-19-(17+19+the tRTP value that is used by the 3200MT/s XMP profile/at 14-17-17-34, if they're different).

Hopefully it'll boot.


----------



## jfriend00

FroofyBatwyvern said:


> So 17-19-19-(17+19+the tRTP value that is used by the 3200MT/s XMP profile/at 14-17-17-34, if they're different).
> 
> Hopefully it'll boot.


When taking a number from a set of lower timings and trying to run it at a faster speed, you would scale it up a bit. So, yes you would take the tRTP value from the previous speed and scale it up a bit. It's hard to follow this thread and know what speed and timings you had it working at and what speed you are now trying to run it at.

If you were [email protected] and stable and now want to try at 3600MHz, then I'd first try [email protected] with all other settings on "auto" and see if you can boot that. FYI, I've found that the three values tCL-tRCD-tRTP are very important for establishing stability at a higher frequency, but the tRAS value is not that sensitive. If you're' having a stability issue and your tRAS value isn't way out of line and your voltage is up near the max you're comfortable with, then it's probably one of the first three numbers that is too low or your chips just won't do that frequency at that voltage.

The real limit for many timings are actually nano-seconds so if you increase the frequency by 10% which shortens the period by 10%, you would typically have to increase the timings by 10% to keep the same number of nano-seconds for a particular operation. This is particularly true for tCL, tRCD and tRP. And, because you only get to enter these as integers, I would round up when first trying to boot and if stable, then try to lower them later to find the minimum value with stability.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> When taking a number from a set of lower timings and trying to run it at a faster speed, you would scale it up a bit. So, yes you would take the tRTP value from the previous speed and scale it up a bit. It's hard to follow this thread and know what speed and timings you had it working at and what speed you are now trying to run it at.
> 
> If you were [email protected] and stable and now want to try at 3600MHz, then I'd first try [email protected] with all other settings on "auto" and see if you can boot that. FYI, I've found that the three values tCL-tRCD-tRTP are very important for establishing stability at a higher frequency, but the tRAS value is not that sensitive. If you're' having a stability issue and your tRAS value isn't way out of line and your voltage is up near the max you're comfortable with, then it's probably one of the first three numbers that is too low or your chips just won't do that frequency at that voltage.
> 
> The real limit for many timings are actually nano-seconds so if you increase the frequency by 10% which shortens the period by 10%, you would typically have to increase the timings by 10% to keep the same number of nano-seconds for a particular operation.* This is particularly true for tCL, tRCD and tRP. And, because you only get to enter these as integers, I would round up when first trying to boot and if stable, then try to lower them later to find the minimum value with stability*.


^^ this! :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

cheapo 2400 kit. :|


----------



## Fraizer

Hello

i follow the advice of Jpmboy to post here my problem 


We have a problem with the Asus Maximus XI Extreme (last bios 0702) and 4x8gb =32gb (even 2x 8gb =16gb !) at 4600Mh from G.Skill the exact ref : G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4600C18D-16GTRS : Latency 18-22-22-42 at 1.45v. -> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4...gtrs#tabs-spec Same problem with the 4600Mhz "NON" Royal. (Royal is just the plastic they put on the led nothing else)

i make them run actualy in manual mode (not xmp) at 3200Mhz Only.

I tried to put only 2 ram on dual channel = problem to boot

i tried XMP 1 and 2 i put the G.Skill constructor voltage : 1.45volts but bios dont boot.

Maybe it need to put an higer value on the VCCIO and System Agent Voltage ???

i dont found them on the QVL of the ROG MAXIMUS XI EXTREME_Memory_QVL. those 4600 are on the market before novembre 2018 (with the 4600 non royal who are exactly the same)
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/m...y_QVL_0108.pdf

G.skill answer me is because Asus they dont add them then they will not work and no any other answer from g.skill usa who was realy rude and no more help...

to help this is the manufaturer spec for those 8Gb at 4600Mhz is: (i have 4 of them to make 32GB, from 2 sperate boxes, each 16Gb)

Test speed : 4600mhz
Tested Latency: 18-22-22-42
Tested voltage : 1.45volts.

I understand i have to set them manualy but i am totaly lost when it regard the memory... if i was good on that i will never make this big order mistake..


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> Hello
> 
> i follow the advice of Jpmboy to post here my problem
> 
> 
> We have a problem with the Asus Maximus XI Extreme (last bios 0702) and 4x8gb =32gb (even 2x 8gb =16gb !) at 4600Mh from G.Skill the exact ref : G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4600C18D-16GTRS : Latency 18-22-22-42 at 1.45v. -> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4...gtrs#tabs-spec Same problem with the 4600Mhz "NON" Royal. (Royal is just the plastic they put on the led nothing else)
> 
> i make them run actualy in manual mode (not xmp) at 3200Mhz Only.
> 
> I tried to put only 2 ram on dual channel = problem to boot
> 
> i tried XMP 1 and 2 i put the G.Skill constructor voltage : 1.45volts but bios dont boot.
> 
> Maybe it need to put an higer value on the VCCIO and System Agent Voltage ???
> 
> i dont found them on the QVL of the ROG MAXIMUS XI EXTREME_Memory_QVL. those 4600 are on the market before novembre 2018 (with the 4600 non royal who are exactly the same)
> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/m...y_QVL_0108.pdf
> 
> G.skill answer me is because Asus they dont add them then they will not work and no any other answer from g.skill usa who was realy rude and no more help...
> 
> to help this is the manufaturer spec for those 8Gb at 4600Mhz is: (i have 4 of them to make 32GB, from 2 sperate boxes, each 16Gb)
> 
> Test speed : 4600mhz
> Tested Latency: 18-22-22-42
> Tested voltage : 1.45volts.
> 
> I understand i have to set them manualy but i am totaly lost when it regard the memory... if i was good on that i will never make this big order mistake..


 and from your OP thread:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/27824848-post8.html


no, with the above settings lets first see if we can get 4000 16-16-16 to boot with 1.45V and the vsa/vccio settings I mentioned. I know what ram kit you have. XMP will not work. Another problem is mixing kits at that (or any) speed. kits of 4 are binned to work together. Combining sticks from 2 identical kits will rarely work at XMP (like really rarely at speeds like that) and hopefully wil lwork together at a lower speed.
I'd put 4600 aside for now... and try what I recommended in your help thread.


----------



## Jidonsu

Jpmboy said:


> and from your OP thread:
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/27824848-post8.html
> 
> 
> no, with the above settings lets first see if we can get 4000 16-16-16 to boot with 1.45V and the vsa/vccio settings I mentioned. I know what ram kit you have. XMP will not work. Another problem is mixing kits at that (or any) speed. kits of 4 are binned to work together. Combining sticks from 2 identical kits will rarely work at XMP (like really rarely at speeds like that) and hopefully wil lwork together at a lower speed.
> I'd put 4600 aside for now... and try what I recommended in your help thread.


I was under the impression that Asus was still having trouble with the A2 layouts that these RGB PCBs have with that kind of speed (>4000). But your recommendation with 4000 16-16-16-38 is a great one.


----------



## Fraizer

i copy past what wrote on my post:

i did that:

- Disabled the switch Mem Ok of the motherboard
- reset the bios with the buton near the bios flash back
- select 4000Mhz
- i put 1.25v for vccio and sa

- i get problem to put the timing you ask me to put (i never did that before) then i select "mode 2" and after i succed to found an area just to put 2 times the 16... please check the attached picture.

and it tryed alone many time to boot but dosent work... then after puting every timing in auto i tried 3900mhz 3800 3700... dosent work... only the 3600Mhz is working at the moment with timing at Auto

i am ready to test any things to fix my 4600 problem :/

*--- EDIT / Update :* i forget to say i tried at 4000Mhz to put my dram voltage from 1.45 to 1.50volts and the VCCIO and the SA at 1.30volts both and same result cant boot (BUT i let all timing and mode by default =Auto).


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> i copy past what wrote on my post:
> 
> i did that:
> 
> - Disabled the switch Mem Ok of the motherboard
> - reset the bios with the buton near the bios flash back
> - select 4000Mhz
> - i put 1.25v for vccio and sa
> 
> - i get problem to put the timing you ask me to put (i never did that before) then i select "mode 2" and after i succed to found an area just to put 2 times the 16... please check the attached picture.
> 
> and it tryed alone many time to boot but dosent work... then after puting every timing in auto i tried 3900mhz 3800 3700... dosent work... only the 3600Mhz is working at the moment with timing at Auto
> 
> i am ready to test any things to fix my 4600 problem :/
> 
> *--- EDIT / Update :* i forget to say i tried at 4000Mhz to put my dram voltage from 1.45 to 1.50volts and the VCCIO and the SA at 1.30volts both and same result cant boot (BUT i let all timing and mode by default =Auto).



i'll post up my settings for 4000 shortly. That rig is crunching numberfields right now.
edit = here ya go. attached ZIP folder. try these ram, vsa and vccio settings.


----------



## Fraizer

just to remind i have 4 of this memory 4600Mhz on my 4 slot mother board 

@Jpmboy

thank you for your screenshots  i put all your values but unfortunatly it dosent boot at 4000.

- about the samsung profile you make me load it was writen an much more voltage than my DDR 1.45V, and if i am not wrong my memory is an dual chips ? just to ask in case it come from here.

after that i tried to do what told me to test @Dillmiester to check all possibility :

i follow this :

- put at 4000Mhz
- set the "mode" in auto (not mode 1 or 2)
- load the raw mhz profile

it make me boot under winbdows 10  i tried too with 4400Mhz it boot (always at ddr at 1.45v vccio & sa both at 1.25v)

i tried at 4500Mhz it took a very long time but it to boot... but each restart is veryyy long. i tried at 1.5volts and vccio & sa both at 1.30v it look more or less the same i tried those last voltages at 4600Mhz but dont boot at all.


here is my screen timing at 4400Mhz... i tried cinebench but i dont saw any difference compare when i was at 3200Mhz


----------



## Fraizer

Update ^^

- i tried for the moment with the XMP 1 and i answer to the question after that "No" . i did right ? i put my memory voltage at 1.45v (constructor voltage) and i decide like this because i read on other post for high freq memory to put at vccio and Sa both 1.300v and i suceed to boot until 4500Mhz !!! ^^ after that i put on the VCCIO and SA both 1.250V it boot again but it took much much long time than 1.300volts...

- Can you please tell me wich XMP to load ? the XMP 1 or 2 ? (to understand: what is the difference between them ?)

- to boot at 4600Mhz i have to increase more than 1.300v the VCCIO and SA ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> Update ^^
> 
> - i tried for the moment with the XMP 1 and i answer to the question after that "No" . i did right ? i put my memory voltage at 1.45v (constructor voltage) and i decide like this because i read on other post for high freq memory to put at vccio and Sa both 1.300v and i suceed to boot until 4500Mhz !!! ^^ after that i put on the VCCIO and SA both 1.250V it boot again but it took much much long time than 1.300volts...
> 
> - Can you please tell me wich XMP to load ? the XMP 1 or 2 ? (to understand: what is the difference between them ?)
> 
> - to boot at 4600Mhz i have to increase more than 1.300v the VCCIO and SA ?


Yes I know you have 4x8GB sticks (actually you have two 2x8GB kits - right? (I'm sure 'cause there are no 4600 4x8GB binned kits. 

Like I mentioned earlier, 4600 XMP is very, very unlikely to work and, more importantly you are using 2 kits, not one 4x8GB kit - which makes it really unreasonable to expect. G.Skill WILL NOT warranty combined kits to work at their rated speed...
If rawHz is working for you try tuning that (but those timings you posted are frankly - krap. The ram would have higher performance at a lower freq with tighter timings).
Find a stable setting for something like 3600.
1.Download a copy of the AsRock timing configurator for x370 or z390 (from their website) so we can see all timings. NVM - I attached the version that works on my ASUS Maximus XI Extreme.

2.Put a Fat32 formatted USB stick in any usb port so you can use F12 to capture a bios screeshot (rather than a phone pic). Works much better.
3. Shut down, switch off the memok switch, clrcmos, enter bios and load the 4x8GB New Samsung B-die for [email protected] THEN lower the frequency to 3600, lower the vdimm to 1.45 and and set vsa to 1.25V, VCCIO to 1.25V, leave all other settings on Auto. attempt to boot. If it does not boot, lower the ram to 3466, then 3200 if 3466 does not boot.
You need to find some boiotable and stable settings to work from . Again - 4600 XMP WILL NOT WORK.


----------



## Pedropc

Hi, this is my memory configuration, greetings;

7940x
eVGA x299 Dark
GSkill Trident Z F4-4400C19D-16GTZSW 4x8GB

VRAM--1.43V
VSA--0.815V
VCCIO--1.008V


----------



## Fraizer

Jpmboy said:


> Yes I know you have 4x8GB sticks (actually you have two 2x8GB kits - right? (I'm sure 'cause there are no 4600 4x8GB binned kits.
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier, 4600 XMP is very, very unlikely to work and, more importantly you are using 2 kits, not one 4x8GB kit - which makes it really unreasonable to expect. G.Skill WILL NOT warranty combined kits to work at their rated speed...
> If rawHz is working for you try tuning that (but those timings you posted are frankly - krap. The ram would have higher performance at a lower freq with tighter timings).
> Find a stable setting for something like 3600.
> 1.Download a copy of the AsRock timing configurator for x370 or z390 (from their website) so we can see all timings. NVM - I attached the version that works on my ASUS Maximus XI Extreme.
> 
> 2.Put a Fat32 formatted USB stick in any usb port so you can use F12 to capture a bios screeshot (rather than a phone pic). Works much better.
> 3. Shut down, switch off the memok switch, clrcmos, enter bios and load the 4x8GB New Samsung B-die for [email protected] THEN lower the frequency to 3600, lower the vdimm to 1.45 and and set vsa to 1.25V, VCCIO to 1.25V, leave all other settings on Auto. attempt to boot. If it does not boot, lower the ram to 3466, then 3200 if 3466 does not boot.
> You need to find some boiotable and stable settings to work from . Again - 4600 XMP WILL NOT WORK.


hi @Jpmboy and thank you for your link again ^^

please escuse my bad english and knowledge in memory OC in case i dont understand well to an question, request, is because i understand wrong

before i answer do you see the post of @Falkentyne in my original topic ?look he have something very interesting ^^ https://www.overclock.net/forum/27825790-post21.html

Yes is right i have two 2x8GB kits. and i was lucky the serial number are following on 4 memorys mean for exemple : xxxxx5 xxxxx6 xxxxx7 xxxxx8. i dont know if it will help to be stable...?

to make you the rights screens:
when you said <Find a stable setting for something like 3600> is to work on a base and after rise to 4xxxMhz ? i hope yes because if not i was totaly stupid to bought those kit who cost me crazy money... :/

If not is better to work on the timing i have when i load the XMP 1 and select manualy 4400Mhz no ? because i dont know about what timing you said they are bad the profile i load with RAW Mhz and make the screen of cpu-z. or the last picture i upload of the profile XMP 1 where we can read 18-22-22-42-1. because like i said when i load this profile and select just that manualy 4400Mhz (i think at VCCIO & SA at 1.250v both, i dont tried under) it boot and i am using the computer at this speed since yesterday.
But when i make an cinebench test ""i think"" i almost not gain or little tigny compare to when i was at 3200 or 3600Mhz (i dont know if we see gain at cinbench for that...)

when you said at number 3 :
<<3. Shut down, switch off the memok switch, clrcmos, enter bios and load the 4x8GB New Samsung B-die for [email protected] THEN lower the frequency to 3600, lower the vdimm to 1.45 and and set vsa to 1.25V, VCCIO to 1.25V, leave all other settings on Auto. attempt to boot. If it does not boot, lower the ram to 3466, then 3200 if 3466 does not boot.>>

i already since you ask me to do switch off the memok switch, clrcmos. do i need to do that again ? because i must everytimes put back all the settings of cpu etc.

i hope with your great help and other will be close of 4600Mhz to justify this crazy price who for the moment i throw in trash.... :/


----------



## Fraizer

@Jpmboy

- Do you think Asus will add in there QVL the G.Skill4600Mhz ? if yes this will solve my problem i mean in 2x8gb and give the best timing freq performences ?

- on there actualy QVL list they have few 4400Mhz not yet listed... how is possible ? :

Asus QVL : (at the end of the pdf) https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...OG_MAXIMUS_XI_HERO_SERIES_Memory_QVL_0108.pdf


DDR4 4400 Qualified Vendors List (QVL) G.SKILL: --> those 3 Kits are by 4 mean 1 kit of 4x8gb = 32Gb

F4-4400C18Q-32GTZR --> Trident Z RGB
F4-4400C18Q-32GTRG --> Trident Z Royal Gold
F4-4400C18Q-32GTRS --> Trident Z Royal Silver

- Just to know Do you think the Performences will be better for an quad 4400Mhz compare of what i can hope to have with my actual 4600Mhz not official quad kit ?

- same question about this quad kit 32gb 4266mhz CAS 17-18-18-38 (single side) https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4266c17q-32gtzr#tabs-spec


----------



## tistou77

The QVL list is just the kits tested it does not mean that it is not compatible
My kit (2kits 2x8Gb 4400 C19), is not in the list and works very well


----------



## Dwofzz

Non RGB Trident Z sticks at 3600Mhz and beyond is PCB type A1 right?


----------



## Jpmboy

Dwofzz said:


> Non RGB Trident Z sticks at 3600Mhz and beyond is PCB type A1 right?


Non-rgb... yes.


----------



## jfriend00

Dwofzz said:


> Non RGB Trident Z sticks at 3600Mhz and beyond is PCB type A1 right?





Jpmboy said:


> Non-rgb... yes.


What does PCB type A1 mean? What are the other types? Any references I could read?


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> - *Do you think Asus will add in there QVL the G.Skill4600Mhz ? if yes this will solve my problem i mean in 2x8gb and give the best timing freq performences *?
> 
> - on there actualy QVL list they have few 4400Mhz not yet listed... how is possible ? :
> 
> Asus QVL : (at the end of the pdf) https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...OG_MAXIMUS_XI_HERO_SERIES_Memory_QVL_0108.pdf
> 
> 
> DDR4 4400 Qualified Vendors List (QVL) G.SKILL: --> those 3 Kits are by 4 mean 1 kit of 4x8gb = 32Gb
> 
> F4-4400C18Q-32GTZR --> Trident Z RGB
> F4-4400C18Q-32GTRG --> Trident Z Royal Gold
> F4-4400C18Q-32GTRS --> Trident Z Royal Silver
> 
> - Just to know Do you think the Performences will be better for an quad 4400Mhz compare of what i can hope to have with my actual 4600Mhz not official quad kit ?
> 
> - same question about this quad kit 32gb 4266mhz CAS 17-18-18-38 (single side) https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4266c17q-32gtzr#tabs-spec


 unlikely. 

Yeah - unless you have some experience, mixing 2 kits at that frequency is tricky, and a crap shoot. Certainly do not expect XMP to work outside the ram ceiling the MB states as its max.
I recommend clrcmos since you loaded XMP. For you CPU settings, do not enter any ram changes, set upi your cpu OC and save that to a save slot in bios (Asus overclocking profiles) or to a USB stick.
Quad channel vs dual channel" this is the MB and CPU channels. You are OK running a quad channel in a dual channel board (which you have), dual channel in a qaud borad is tricky.
As tistou said, one can get mixed kits to work, but it takes knowlwdge... and XMP is a no no.
Again (last time). Find ANY working frequency and reasonable timings. We can try to work up from there... Or, return those two kits and gety one 4x8GB kit that is more mainstream... like a 3600c16 kit.
You should not be disappointed about the board or ram kits you bought, I think your expectations outpaced overclocking skills at this point. You'll gain them with time. 4 sticks at 4600 on that board is a bit too ambitious.


----------



## Jpmboy

tistou77 said:


> The QVL list is just the kits tested it does not mean that it is not compatible
> My kit (2kits 2x8Gb 4400 C19), is not in the list and works very well


are you saying XMP worked? :wth:


----------



## Fraizer

@Jpmboy

i think you miss some questions haha but is my fault i ask you so much questions... 

what you think about look great helpful info ?

https://www.overclock.net/forum/27825790-post21.html

if you have choice between quad kit 32gb F4-4400C18Q-32GTZR 18-22-22-42 1.5V or mine 32gb 4600Mhz but need to work on them youl choose what ? the 4600 mhz will be probably better performences after oc and timing ? those 4400 are not listed from g.skill but on the QVL of asus... dont know how they know that ?... or gskill cancel them ?...


----------



## tistou77

jfriend00 said:


> What does PCB type A1 mean? What are the other types? Any references I could read?


The others are A2 (chips are closer on the pcb)
A1 at the top, A2 at the bottom









Best OC it will look


----------



## Dwofzz

A1 is the best one for overclocking, A2 tend to give me at least a hard time..


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> i think you miss some questions haha but is my fault i ask you so much questions...
> 
> what you think about look great helpful info ?
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/27825790-post21.html
> 
> if you have choice between quad kit 32gb F4-4400C18Q-32GTZR 18-22-22-42 1.5V or mine 32gb 4600Mhz but need to work on them youl choose what ? the 4600 mhz will be probably better performences after oc and timing ? those 4400 are not listed from g.skill but on the QVL of asus... dont know how they know that ?... or gskill cancel them ?...


 one kit is not going to have better performance than another at the same OC and timings. For 32GB on that MB I (personally) would not buy more than 3600c16. Like I said, I have a 32gb 3600c16 kit running 4000c16. Outside of benchmarks, you will not experience a benefit at 4400 vs 4000.
We're going OT. This is a 24/7 ram stability tuning thread. Lol - not a ram buying guide. 
post a snip of the asrock TC with settings you have successfully booted AND pass initial stability testing (like 100% ramtest, or GSAT for 30min)


----------



## tistou77

Bizarre when I see that

G.Skill 4600 mhz 19-23-23-43 at 1.50v (A1)
G.Skill 4600 mhz 18-22-22-42 at 1.45v (A2)


----------



## Dwofzz

A1 4000Mhz CL 12-11-11-27-1T 1.85v
A2 4000Mhz CL 12-12-12-28-1T 2.05v (sometimes it won't work..)
For me at least, and with the sticks I got.


----------



## Jpmboy

Dwofzz said:


> A1 4000Mhz CL 12-11-11-27-1T 1.85v
> A2 4000Mhz CL 12-12-12-28-1T 2.05v (sometimes it won't work..)
> For me at least, and with the sticks I got.


 Yeah - with the couple of 4400c19 kits I have, 4000c12-11 is labor and higher than 2V. BUt several 3600c16 or 3600c15 kits do 12-11-11 at 1.925V or lower.
The flip side is the 4400c19 kits are "easier" (at least for me) to get stable at 4500c19 (or 18 at 24/7 voltages) than the 3600 kits. Lol - I have a 3200c14 kit that is as good as any at high and tight... so, even when you know the specs/build, ram is "like a box of chocolates".


----------



## tistou77

Ok thanks, so A1 is better for OC
Me, I wanted to test the G.Skill A2 kit, no need 

But in OC h24 (VDIMM max at 1.50v) A2 are not better than A1 ?


----------



## Dwofzz

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah - with the couple of 4400c19 kits I have, 4000c12-11 is labor and higher than 2V. BUt several 3600c16 or 3600c15 kits do 12-11-11 at 1.925V or lower.
> The flip side is the 4400c19 kits are "easier" (at least for me) to get stable at 4500c19 (or 18 at 24/7 voltages) than the 3600 kits. Lol - I have a 3200c14 kit that is as good as any at high and tight... so, even when you know the specs/build, ram is "like a box of chocolates".


That is very true! I had to move them around alot to find the best possible scenario and then it did 12-11-11 with ease, I use the A1 set (G.skill Trident Z 3600MHz CL16 (GTZKK I think it is)) at 3800MHz CL16 24/7, Plenty of speed for what I'm doing with my daily system


----------



## Fraizer

tistou77 said:


> Ok thanks, so A1 is better for OC
> Me, I wanted to test the G.Skill A2 kit, no need
> 
> But in OC h24 (VDIMM max at 1.50v) A2 are not better than A1 ?


hi how you know a gskill kit is A1 or A2 ? you need to open the box ?

thank you


----------



## tistou77

Fraizer said:


> hi how you know a gskill kit is A1 or A2 ? you need to open the box ?
> 
> thank you


The latest G.Skill kits are normally A2 (4600 C18 to 1.45v for example)
Otherwise, to be sure, you have to look at the position of the chips


----------



## Fraizer

Jpmboy said:


> one kit is not going to have better performance than another at the same OC and timings. For 32GB on that MB I (personally) would not buy more than 3600c16. Like I said, I have a 32gb 3600c16 kit running 4000c16. Outside of benchmarks, you will not experience a benefit at 4400 vs 4000.
> We're going OT. This is a 24/7 ram stability tuning thread. Lol - not a ram buying guide.
> post a snip of the asrock TC with settings you have successfully booted AND pass initial stability testing (like 100% ramtest, or GSAT for 30min)


Hi @Jpmboy

sorry for the delay i just dont saw before your answer and now just appear.. (strange).

After your answer i will put all my system on the right bios settings to start the work with a good base, i start by your answers (sorry when i make you repeat is because i dont underand the meaning or too much tech for me at the moment) to understand slowly. i fault i will hate that part to understand how to OC memory but i think at this very begginer level i start to like it ^^

1- i join a screen like the screen you post for me. is probably usless screen because before clear cmos and load the samsung single side cheap profile. but here is the XMP one i sucess to boot at 1.45v and VCCIO and SA at 1.250vols (on HWiNFO64 screen it show more voltages....)

2- Then no more any XMP crap !! ^^
a) just to be clear for the test do i need to set my cpu non OC ? or i can use it OC ? (tests was totaly stable at 5.3Ghz @1.315volts with strong custom WC)

b) i will then clear the cmos, loadthe memory profile "4x8GB New Samsung B-die for [email protected]" vdimm at 1.45v VCCIO & VSA both at 1.2500volts.

c) regarding the frequency if i suceed to boot with this samsung profile at 4400Mhz i should start the work at 4400Mhz or go little lower ?

d) if i succed to boot at 4400Mhz (with the XMP 1 Profile) do you recommand me to screen all the data in the memory cas etc.. and use the as a base of work ? it will be better than the the samsung profile ?

3- regarding the stability test soft you said : >>stability testing (like 100% ramtest, or GSAT for 30min)<< i dont found them with those names ^^ in past i know memtest86 but i rember we need (at this time lol to make an bootable 2" 1/2 bootable ms-dos disk to launch the memetest86 ^^). and please if it need some value to enter to have the test let me know like prime95 i must put some values ^^

4- do you need me to put you the screenshot of my bios (if yes which area because in the dram timing they are some sub menu do you need them too ? or an screen of ASRock Timing Configurator + HWiNFO64 is enough ?

5- can you please tell me what mean that and if it is exploitable for my case regarding the test i will make ? personaly i dont understand..

here:
>>>>>
DDR4 main timings is CAS, tRCD/TRP (usually set to the same value) and tRAS.
According to Raja @ Asus, to improve stability,
set tRAS equal to CAS + tRCD + tRTP (minimum value for tRAS). So in other words, tRTP should be equal to tRAS - TRCD - Cas.

Then set tWR = 2x (double) tRTP.
tRTP should never be less than 5.
>>>>>


----------



## Fraizer

tistou77 said:


> The latest G.Skill kits are normally A2 (4600 C18 to 1.45v for example)
> Otherwise, to be sure, you have to look at the position of the chips


thank you tistou77

then i gess all gskill rgb kit and royal too ? because i think they put lower the chipps because the leds on the top ?


----------



## Jpmboy

dupped


----------



## tistou77

Fraizer said:


> thank you tistou77
> 
> then i gess all gskill rgb kit and royal too ? because i think they put lower the chipps because the leds on the top ?


In fact, A1 at the top, A2 at the bottom










The RGB and Royal 4600 C18 1.45v kit are A2
Not sure for others


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> Hi @*Jpmboy*
> 
> sorry for the delay i just dont saw before your answer and now just appear.. (strange).
> 
> After your answer i will put all my system on the right bios settings to start the work with a good base, i start by your answers (sorry when i make you repeat is because i dont underand the meaning or too much tech for me at the moment) to understand slowly. i fault i will hate that part to understand how to OC memory but i think at this very begginer level i start to like it ^^
> 
> 1- i join a screen like the screen you post for me. is probably usless screen because before clear cmos and load the samsung single side cheap profile. but here is the XMP one i sucess to boot at 1.45v and VCCIO and SA at 1.250vols (on HWiNFO64 screen it show more voltages....)
> 
> 2- Then no more any XMP crap !! ^^
> a) just to be clear for the test do i need to set my cpu non OC ? or i can use it OC ? (tests was totaly stable at 5.3Ghz @1.315volts with strong custom WC)
> 
> b) i will then clear the cmos, loadthe memory profile "4x8GB New Samsung B-die for [email protected]" vdimm at 1.45v VCCIO & VSA both at 1.2500volts.
> 
> c) regarding the frequency if i suceed to boot with this samsung profile at 4400Mhz i should start the work at 4400Mhz or go little lower ?
> 
> d) if i succed to boot at 4400Mhz (with the XMP 1 Profile) do you recommand me to screen all the data in the memory cas etc.. and use the as a base of work ? it will be better than the the samsung profile ?
> 
> 3- regarding the stability test soft you said : >>stability testing (like 100% ramtest, or GSAT for 30min)<< i dont found them with those names ^^ in past i know memtest86 but i rember we need (at this time lol to make an bootable 2" 1/2 bootable ms-dos disk to launch the memetest86 ^^). and please if it need some value to enter to have the test let me know like prime95 i must put some values ^^
> 
> 4- do you need me to put you the screenshot of my bios (if yes which area because in the dram timing they are some sub menu do you need them too ? or an screen of ASRock Timing Configurator + HWiNFO64 is enough ?
> 
> 5- can you please tell me what mean that and if it is exploitable for my case regarding the test i will make ? personaly i dont understand..
> 
> here:
> >>>>>
> DDR4 main timings is CAS, tRCD/TRP (usually set to the same value) and tRAS.
> According to Raja @ Asus, to improve stability,
> set tRAS equal to CAS + tRCD + tRTP (minimum value for tRAS). So in other words, tRTP should be equal to tRAS - TRCD - Cas.
> 
> Then set tWR = 2x (double) tRTP.
> tRTP should never be less than 5.
> >>>>>


 try one or two questions at a time...

1> remember, a ram OC is an OC on the CPU. You can use a known-good CPU OC, but be prepared to adjust voltages running hte CPU (vcore, vsa, vccio). The CPU memory controller (IMC) pulls from VSA, it communicates with the rest of the architecture with VCCIO, so as you increase ram freq or tighten timings, these may need adjusting.

2> tRTP can be less than 5 depending on the platform and other settings (I have my x299 at 4000 with tRTP = 4).

3> CAS, RCD and RP do not always have hte same timing for optimal performance... in fact some ram/platforms need a tick or 2 over CAS to be truly stable.

Okay - so you have a bootable system... you need to see if that has any stability at all (beyond being able to boot windows). POst 1 of this thread has a number of tools you can use. Pick one, they are all good. Theere is zero reason to attempt to adjust any timings or frequency until you have some sense of working stability. There are many post in this thread to help. Go back and read a few.
Next thing or question I (or anyone here) can provide informed advice regarding the OC on that ram has to have this base to work from. Otherwise we're guessing.

Personally, I would not use any OC on the CPU or cache at this point - leave all voltages except VSA, vccio and vdimm on auto. First thing is to find a (pseudo-)stable base to work from. :thumb:


----------



## Fraizer

i dont understood all when is technik but probably i will understand better after test and values to enter ^^

for your 1) right it make hot the cpu rising the vccio vsa. i understand i hope no it better to make the memory oc first (founding the smaller CAS etc..) and at the end oc my 9900K with the right voltage for everything will be stable.

for the memtest soft you recomanded me 2 softs ram test and GSAT do you know where i can download GSAT ? i am searching since a moment but i dont suceed to found it ? maybe not free ? by searching i found HCI Memtest free version... but understand is better to test with GSAT.. after i get the right soft how many windows of this soft i must open ? and what values i must put in each window of this soft ? (i see for testing people open many windows of this soft)


yeah i boot at 4400Mhz but i see no any difference of speed / performences gain (i test just on cinebench) between 3200Mhz and now 4400Mhz XMP1, both all in auto (except vccio, vsa at 1.250v and vdimm at 1.45v). probably because like you saifd i have crap timing at 4400mhz ?

when i bought those 32gb crazy expensive 4600Mhz i expect a good gain compare to memory at 3200Mhz, hope i can fix this problem with your help on this tread. i am realy not interested to pay so much to have an 3200Mhz gain  Hope you can help me for that if not i understand my friend is probably to much work and take too much of your time  (about this memory unfortunatly i cant return them, if they accept an replacement it will be only a choice of cheaper g.skill memory and they will keep like few hundred euros for them... :/ )


----------



## jfriend00

Fraizer said:


> for the memtest soft you recomanded me 2 softs ram test and GSAT do you know where i can download GSAT ? i am searching since a moment but i dont suceed to found it ? maybe not free ?


GSAT is Google stressapptest. It runs on *nix and is free, but you need to find a way to run some version of Unix and a matching version of stressapptest. There was a post here a few weeks ago where someone had posted an ISO (that you can burn to a DVD or USB stick) to boot right into linux and run stressapptest. I can't find it at the moment, but the right searching from within the last 2-4 weeks should find it. 

I personally use RAMTest on Windows (which is a small purchase) and is very convenient and generally finds problems quickly. I also use PassMark's MemTest86 which you can put on a bootable USB stick or DVD (it's some small OS and runs by itself). The advantage of PassMark's MemTest86 (make sure you get that specific version of MemTest86 as there are many older ones out there) is that it can test pretty much all your memory at once and, if you have stability problems, you can find them before booting into Windows. But, it's kind of a slow tester, though I'd say it's thorough.


----------



## Fraizer

hi

you talking about this ? https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...application-test-tiny-bootable-linux-iso.html

regarding the stability test @Jpmboy want me to run for 30min i must indicate any value on the command line ?

i will probably buy ram test to thank the members for this tread to help me but for this starting new month i am crazy limited in money of all what i invest and after chistmass gifts :/


i found on the NAS of the work an friend who have this in his folder "PassMark MemTest86 Pro version 8.0" you was talking about that version pro or the free version ? this test software is slow compare to other right ? maybe is not useful when i found the link GSAT you talking about ?


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> GSAT is Google stressapptest. It runs on *nix and is free, but you need to find a way to run some version of Unix and a matching version of stressapptest. There was a post here a few weeks ago where someone had posted an ISO (that you can burn to a DVD or USB stick) to boot right into linux and run stressapptest. I can't find it at the moment, but the right searching from within the last 2-4 weeks should find it.
> 
> I personally use RAMTest on Windows (which is a small purchase) and is very convenient and generally finds problems quickly. I also use PassMark's MemTest86 which you can put on a bootable USB stick or DVD (it's some small OS and runs by itself). The advantage of PassMark's MemTest86 (make sure you get that specific version of MemTest86 as there are many older ones out there) is that it can test pretty much all your memory at once and, if you have stability problems, you can find them before booting into Windows. But, it's kind of a slow tester, though I'd say it's thorough.


 you can use the windows 10 linux subsystem (bash) and run GSAT using that. You simply need to specify the ram to be use in the command line.
This works fine for a 1 hour test with 32GB installed ram:
stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200


Just google windows bash, DL Ubuntu from the store and follow the instructions. Then "sudo apt-get install stressapptest"


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> i dont understood all when is technik but probably i will understand better after test and values to enter ^^
> 
> for your 1) right it make hot the cpu rising the vccio vsa. i understand i hope no it better to make the memory oc first (founding the smaller CAS etc..) and at the end oc my 9900K with the right voltage for everything will be stable.
> 
> for the memtest soft you recomanded me 2 softs ram test and GSAT do you know where i can download GSAT ? i am searching since a moment but i dont suceed to found it ? maybe not free ? by searching i found HCI Memtest free version... but understand is better to test with GSAT.. after i get the right soft how many windows of this soft i must open ? and what values i must put in each window of this soft ? (i see for testing people open many windows of this soft)
> 
> 
> yeah i boot at 4400Mhz but i see no any difference of speed / performences gain *(i test just on cinebench*) between 3200Mhz and now 4400Mhz XMP1, both all in auto (except vccio, vsa at 1.250v and vdimm at 1.45v). probably because like you saifd i have crap timing at 4400mhz ?
> 
> when i bought those 32gb crazy expensive 4600Mhz i expect a good gain compare to memory at 3200Mhz, hope i can fix this problem with your help on this tread. i am realy not interested to pay so much to have an 3200Mhz gain  Hope you can help me for that if not i understand my friend is probably to much work and take too much of your time  (about this memory unfortunatly i cant return them, if they accept an replacement it will be only a choice of cheaper g.skill memory and they will keep like few hundred euros for them... :/ )


cinebench R15 is not gonna show a difference. Use AID64 or even superPi 32M. No problem with helping... many folks here can! :thumb:


----------



## Fraizer

Jpmboy said:


> you can use the windows 10 linux subsystem (bash) and run GSAT using that. You simply need to specify the ram to be use in the command line.
> This works fine for a 1 hour test with 32GB installed ram:
> stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
> 
> 
> Just google windows bash, DL Ubuntu from the store and follow the instructions. Then "sudo apt-get install stressapptest"


i succed under windows and launch your command line stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200 and like 2min my windows freez then Power Off/On. i launche the test with my actual XMP 1 4400 Profile.

to do the things right what is your advise do you think i will have better memory speed if i work on the speed of 4400Mhz using as base only the data of this XMP profile (just using the data of screen i provide before) ? i will of course disable the cpu oc etc like i said before.

or erease all and load the samsung profile and put speed at 4400Mhz ?

i think i am ready to work on that but i need to know what data and where to put them to run test and back with an feedback etc..


i add an screen of the bench with this actual bad stability test


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> i succed under windows and launch your command line stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200 and like 2min my windows freez then Power Off/On. i launche the test with my actual XMP 1 4400 Profile.
> 
> t*o do the things right what is your advise do you think i will have better memory speed if i work on the speed of 4400Mhz using as base only the data of this XMP profile (just using the data of screen i provide before) ? i will of course disable the cpu oc etc like i said before.
> *
> or erease all and load the samsung profile and put speed at 4400Mhz ?
> 
> i think i am ready to work on that but i need to know what data and where to put them to run test and back with an feedback etc..
> 
> i add an screen of the bench with this actual bad stability test


 To do this right, enter bios, select "Load OPtimized Defaults", then... enter the timings and voltage I posted earlier in the bios zip file. set the frequency to 3600 or 3866 and see if it will boot at 1.35 to 1.45V. From your previous screenshot, you have one stick which is giving a non-aligned RTL and IOL value, let's first find a frequency where they can align. Also, with two mixed kits like you have, you may want to try putting each one stick from each kit in a channel, eg, one stick from kits 1 and 2 in channel A and one from each kit in channel B... they are dual channel kits, best to use them as they were intended.
Lastly - you need to stop with 4400 and 4600 at this beginning stage. Try a lower frequency first.
Please do this with no OC on the CPU... and be sure you have a good backup oif your system A bad ram OC can completely corrupt an OS install. (whereas a bad cpu OC just BSODs)

oh - what voltage (VCORE) are you running to have that 9900K at 5.3 GHz???


----------



## Fraizer

my vcore at 5.3Ghz is : 1.315volts i am delied direct die with strong watercooling.

for the mixing kits channel i did that (just to know: the serials numbers of the 2 boxes follow each other like a quad, like in my hands just after the factory). box 1 i put 1 stick on A2 the other of this same kit box on B2. the 2nd box kit i put 1 stick on A1 and the second of the same box on B1. Is what you ask right ? if yes they was already like that since the begining.

Then to resume:

clear cmos bios

load the samsung single side profile memory

i set all the timing and voltages on your screenshots in this zip file

i set the speed lets say at 3866 and start from 1.35volts and increase in case it not boot

After that i post you an screenshot of ASRock Timing Configurator and HWiNFO64 ? need an aida benchmark screenshot ? etc ?

i am going to do that and back for more instructions


----------



## Fraizer

Here it is 

i put like on the screen in manual and put the cpu in auo for all and set only his vcor at 1.315v.

everythings is by default i screen only what i modifed i touch nothing else.

i forget in the message before after clear cmos i load the optimizet bios.

then at 3866mhz dosent boot at 1.45v then i put at 3600. it boot at 1.35volts under windows and *even 1.30Volts* (i dont tried less, but i can if you need)

then i am actualy on windows at 3600Mhz @1.35v witht he timing of the single side samsung new. i edit those setting to put exactly what you put on your screens "for Timings only" as you can check on my screens. i dont touch the cpu or any power setting on the motherboard excet vcore and ddr and vccio VSA.

i am waiting what to do. if need to make an stress test of 30min or 1h like that or no etc...

i use my phone to make picture because no free usb key actualy...


----------



## Jpmboy

lol - woah. You can us F12 while in bios to drop a .bmp file of any bios page to a USB stick. Much better than a photograph.
Anyway - nice work! Will it survive GSAT?


----------



## Fraizer

lol like i wrote i dont have actualy usb key, i dont forget your advise 1day ago ^^

do you see again the problem timing allignement i get at 4400mhz ?

Always GSAT with this line ? stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200

i need to run the test for 30min ? or much less time ??

in case the test failed what you want me to do ? and if it failed again ? like this i will make few steps before i back and post


----------



## Fraizer

lol about GSAT how i make the test stop running like after 30min of test ?? CTRL+C ? and how i know is good or failed ? before when is failed or my windows 10 freez then On/Off ^^

i read a very slow timing if 3600 = secondes it mean is a test of 1hour ? then i must wait 1 hour for this test at 3600mhz ? at this speed we will rich the right speed and timing in 1 week lol ? ^^ just question nothing to take bad ^^


----------



## Fraizer

waiting your answer i did the gsat test like that with this line : stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200


result 1h Test at 3600mhz 1.35volts with your timing in bios


waiting next setings and steps to follow


----------



## spooklexity

Hi, 
I have been struggling for quite some time to get my RAM to an acceptable configuration. Not only that my CPU is a bit of a crapshoot (see yourself with the attached voltage settings) and requires a significant voltage to go for anything, the IMC is also on the weaker side. The fact that the motherboard does not support more than DDR4-2800 probably doesn't help.

To make things worse, I have a quad-channel layout with 2x2x8 GiB kits of G.Skill Aegis DDR4-3000 CL16. One of these kits has Hynix A-die, the other one has Micron B-Die (D9TBH ICs), all single-rank.

This results in me being unable to detect all sticks at DDR4-3000 without setting a 1.25er strap without being to afraid of the VCCSA given, and even with that strap I ended up needing +0.22V System Agent Offset.
Therefore, I tried to experiment with tighter timings at 2800 MHz, which I could run at +0.165V System Agent Offset without issues. I have set the VDimm to 1.37V for all channels and tried tightening the timings from the baseline of XMP (16-18-18-38 2T, tRFC=576) extensively. You can see the results in the attached screenshots.
I do like the results, but am always open for advice on what I could improve. The current settings are 3h gSAT stable.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Fraizer

maybe i did wrong something on my test ? or settings ? or is fine :-/


----------



## djgar

Fraizer said:


> lol like i wrote i dont have actualy usb key, i dont forget your advise 1day ago ^^
> 
> do you see again the problem timing allignement i get at 4400mhz ?
> 
> Always GSAT with this line ? stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 7200
> 
> i need to run the test for 30min ? or much less time ??
> 
> in case the test failed what you want me to do ? and if it failed again ? like this i will make few steps before i back and post


IIRC changing the -s 3600 to -s 1800 will give you a half-hour test, -s being the number of seconds.


----------



## Fraizer

thank you djgar i realise that yesterday in front of the test lol

i post the result but i dont know if it good (the first time i run gsat) then i am just waiting next steps from Jpmboy ^^ i fault i did something wrong or to much question and he give up lol

thank you guys to answer and help us everytimes you can


----------



## djgar

Fraizer said:


> thank you djgar i realise that yesterday in front of the test lol
> 
> i post the result but i dont know if it good (the first time i run gsat) then i am just waiting next steps from Jpmboy ^^ i fault i did something wrong or to much question and he give up lol
> 
> thank you guys to answer and help us everytimes you can


It does say 0 errors and 0 hardware incidents :thumb:


----------



## Fraizer

yes ^^ but i was asking that because at the end the message say verify if not corrected error ^^

and waiting next steps ^^


----------



## djgar

Fraizer said:


> yes ^^ but i was asking that because at the end the message say verify if not corrected error ^^
> 
> and waiting next steps ^^


There would have been a correction message somewhere in the test list, which would have been quite visible.


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ This. (thanks Digar!)





Fraizer said:


> yes ^^ but i was asking that because at the end the message say verify if not corrected error ^^
> 
> and waiting next steps ^^


 GSAT is the server memory test Google uses... Only EEC memory would produce "corrected errors". :thumb:


I'd next increase the ram speed to 3866 and try up to 1.5V vdimm to see if it can post with those same timings (eg, try 1.4, 1.45 and last.. 1.5 lower fails). When you increase to 3866, add 20mV (0.020V) to VSA.


----------



## Fraizer

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ This. (thanks Digar!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GSAT is the server memory test Google uses... Only EEC memory would produce "corrected errors". :thumb:
> 
> 
> I'd next increase the ram speed to 3866 and try up to 1.5V vdimm to see if it can post with those same timings (eg, try 1.4, 1.45 and last.. 1.5 lower fails). When you increase to 3866, add 20mV (0.020V) to VSA.


hi 

bad news  3866 @1.45 & after 1.50v with VSA 1.27500 (refuse to add just 1.2700 it put me without choice 1.27500)

the system try to boot alone many times but not succes then Power On/Off (i fault it try to boot many times when the Switch Mem Ok is enable but here is switch off)

i back time to boot to 36000 @1.35v vccio & vsa both at 1.2500v


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> hi
> 
> bad news  3866 @1.45 & after 1.50v with VSA 1.27500 (refuse to add just 1.2700 it put me without choice 1.27500)
> 
> the system try to boot alone many times but not succes then Power On/Off (i fault it try to boot many times when the Switch Mem Ok is enable but here is switch off)
> 
> i back time to boot to 36000 @1.35v vccio & vsa both at 1.2500v



okay - so i understand... you kept the memok switch off (and it has been off for 3600 - right?) yet it still failed to post and boot at 3866. Increase rcd/rp to 18 (from 16) , put all other ram timings on Auto, (all that you set manually from the timings I posted), use mode 1 not mode 2 or Auto, and try 3866 again at 1.45V. You can return VSA and VCCIO to the voltages that work for 3600.


----------



## Fraizer

i put off since the first time you told me. after that clearcmos with the buton in back of the motherboard near the button usb flashback. i dont touch this switch again. then yes for 3600 off too. i must to put back on ?

i have the motherboard trying to boot only when it is a problem sart and shutdown start and shutdown. but when is no problem it boot directly

going to apply your settings


----------



## Fraizer

Sucess at 3866 (i tried just like that : all freq boot to windows from 3866 to 4400Mhz. at 4500Mhz it boot the bios but freez before windows login, 4600 dosent boot at all)

like you can see on screen i put Mode 1 the 2x 16 to 18 put all the rest to Auto (if it need : please check the screens because they are many timing down but i dont touch regarding your screens dont show them). i just stay on this settings page (i let your setting in another setting page PLL Bandwidth to level 2).

dont touch vccio and sa at 1.2500 vdimm 1.45v


----------



## Jpmboy

that says 4266. you need to test stability (a quick gsat is all at this point). I'd drop back to 3866 or 4000 and test. set 16-18, not 18-18 for 3866 and 4000.
high frequency means nothing if it is not stable. 


edit - oh, and you own a very expensive ram kit and system... go buy a USB stick please. :blinksmil


----------



## Fraizer

hi 

sucess after 1h GSAT

then i tested at directly 4000 with Dram cas latency at 16 and dram Ras to Cas delay at 18 alaways mode 1 all rest in auto and same voltages like before

ready for next


----------



## Fraizer

(i edit this post with 1 more test)

Hi again

To maybe help for next steps :

i tested too at 4100Mhz with exactly same settings and test = Sucess

i tested too at 4133Mhz with exactly same settings and test = Sucess Too

-

i tested too at 4200Mhz but this failed (screenshot)


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> (i edit this post with 1 more test)
> 
> Hi again
> 
> To maybe help for next steps :
> 
> i tested too at 4100Mhz with exactly same settings and test = Sucess
> 
> i tested too at 4133Mhz with exactly same settings and test = Sucess Too
> 
> -
> 
> i tested too at 4200Mhz but this failed (screenshot)


 need to show the timings, voltages etc that failed. just use the asrock tool or ASUS memtweak.
that said... good work. you're getting there. once you have a stab;e boot freq you are satisfied with, we can look at tightening timings.


----------



## Fraizer

hi ^^

at 4000 or 4133 ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> hi ^^
> 
> at 4000 or 4133 ?


4266 fail or 4133 success (tho any more information is very helpful  )


----------



## Fraizer

here is 4133 sucess


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> here is 4133 sucess


 okay in bios - to start let's change 

tWR to 18
tRFC to 425 (you can try 374)
tRTP to 8
tFAW to 36 (we'll lower this once we see it RDD_s can be lower... later)

try these in sequence, save a asrock TC snip if each will boot and post back (i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol). Feel free to test stability "at your perference" 
run an AID64memory test to see if there is benefit. Honestly, for 24/7 4133c16 is pretty damn good!


----------



## Fraizer

ok finaly i think i understood then i edit my question where i dont understood ^^


----------



## kongasdf

tistou77 said:


> In fact, A1 at the top, A2 at the bottom
> 
> View attachment 249954
> 
> 
> 
> The RGB and Royal 4600 C18 1.45v kit are A2
> Not sure for others


I think the top one is A0, and A1 is more loose and more similar than A2.

Left is A0, Right is A1.


----------



## tistou77

kongasdf said:


> I think the top one is A0, and A1 is more loose and more similar than A2.
> 
> Left is A1, Right is A0.


You're sure ?


----------



## Fraizer

Jpmboy said:


> okay in bios - to start let's change
> 
> tWR to 18
> tRFC to 425 (you can try 374)
> tRTP to 8
> tFAW to 36 (we'll lower this once we see it RDD_s can be lower... later)
> 
> try these in sequence, save a asrock TC snip if each will boot and post back (i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol). Feel free to test stability "at your perference"
> run an AID64memory test to see if there is benefit. Honestly, for 24/7 4133c16 is pretty damn good!


Hi then finaly i understand how to do what you asked me the name are totaly different in asus bios but i found with the asrok soft 

then everythings boot even at tRFC 374

- i had problem with tWR 18 when in bios i enter 18 (i back after an restart to the bios to check and yes = 18) it display as you can see on my screens 19.... then i keep like this and make an bench after reboot enter tRFC 374 i bench after the tRTP 8 i bench after tFAW 36 i bench.... AND finaly i went back to the tWR and i put 17 and under widnows the asrok soft show me 18 when suposed 17... look is 1 unit difference i dont know if the bios bug or the software asrock...

for the bench can you tell wich area to look in priority to compare easly the speed between the bench ?

i will make the same stability test of 1hour when i will have an short time  but i dont know finaly what to keep for the tWR... 18 in bios and display 19 in soft ot 17 and in soft display 18...?


i post the screenshots in the sequence i describe: (the first is the basic bench at 4133Mhz). every picture have an name file describe the test timing etc..


----------



## Fraizer

waiting next steps i make 2 stability test of the same line 1 hour for each

the one where i put tWR 17 on bios to display on asrok soft tWR 18 it pass with Sucess ! (i dont know if usefull to test this timing but i will test again for 1h to be sur)

but the one in bios tWR 18 it display in soft asrok tWR 19 it Failed and show those error: (i fault more is small more is fast and make problem..)

<<<<<<<<<<<<
Log: Seconds remaining: 10
Log: Thread 1 found 7 hardware incidents
Stats: Found 7 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 131307168.00M in 3600.52s 36468.93MB/s, with 7 hardware incidents, 0 errors
Stats: Memory Copy: 131307168.00M at 36471.33MB/s
Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s

Status: FAIL - test discovered HW problems
<<<<<<<<<<<<<



*EDIT / UPDATE:*

then no error on the one who succed before... but dont think this information is usefull..


Log: Seconds remaining: 20
Log: Seconds remaining: 10
Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 131380504.00M in 3600.52s 36489.29MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
Stats: Memory Copy: 131380504.00M at 36491.51MB/s
Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s

Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors


----------



## Fraizer

look i dont make the right test lol ^^

waiting that i found a new test reveiw of my memory (but in dual only) at 4000mhz and the bench are better this make me sad when i see the different of money lol but the tuning of memory is not finish then i cross finger to have much better speed 

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/G.SKILL/F4-4000C17D-16GTRS/7.html


----------



## Fraizer

@Jpmboy

problem on my the tests ?


----------



## jfriend00

Using two sticks from a 4x8GB G.Skill [email protected] set, running on a ASRock Z390 Taichi with an i7-9700k, I was able to get them to run at either 4000MHz or 4133MHz with stability. No amount of voltage up to 1.50V or timings would boot at 4200MHz, so 4133Mhz seemed to be the max for these sticks, mobo and processor.

I could get tighter timings at 4000MHz than at 4133MHz that resulted in better performance numbers in AIDA64 memory benchmark and easier stability so that's what I decided to go with for 24/7 use. Here's the data:

ASRock Z390 Taichi
i7-9700k @ 5.0GHz
G.Skill F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK (two sticks from a 4x8 set, rated for [email protected])
15-17-17-37 @ 4000MHz
DRAM voltage 1.45V
VCCIO 1.18V
VCCSA 1.18V

Tested for stability with overnight runs in both RAMTest and PassMark's MemTest86 and 30 minute run in GSAT.


----------



## Fraizer

new bios for my asus maximus XI extreme

change:

Version 0805 2019/02/017.94 MBytes

ROG MAXIMUS XI EXTREME BIOS 0805
01. Improved DRAM stability
02. Supported JEDEC standard DDR4 32GB memory
03. Updated RST driver
04. Update ME FW
05. Improve system performance
06. Improved DRAM stabilit

------------------------------

do you think it will help ?


*EDIT:* i just Update my bios but wait Help instructions for next steps of oc my memory. hope this bios will not make my test data i post before usless.. :/


----------



## Fraizer

Any body can help to finish the overcloking of my memory pelase ?

i am blocked since many days on my computer project because this situation


all the instructions i follow begin from https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-807.html#post27827150 but i can resume all in 1 post


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi!
ASRock Taichi z370
i7 8086k
There is such a memory and it is cool:thumb:
Corsair Vengeance Lpx Red 16Gb 2x8(CMK16GX4M2B4266C19)
At the moment I use 4500Mhz as stable, but aim for 4533Mhz frequency. This is still an outline of timings for a higher frequency.


----------



## jfriend00

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Hi!
> ASRock Taichi z370
> i7 8086k
> There is such a memory and it is cool:thumb:
> Corsair Vengeance Lpx Red 16Gb 2x8(CMK16GX4M2B4266C19)
> At the moment I use 4500Mhz as stable, but aim for 4533Mhz frequency. This is still an outline of timings for a higher frequency.
> View attachment 251330


That's some nice speed. Congrats on getting that to fly.

What is the DRAM voltage? Do you know who is the maker and type of the RAM chips on those sticks? Samsung B-die? Or something else?

Your screen shot for Testmem5 (which I'm not familiar with) implies an 8 minute test of your DRAM. I'm not aware of any testing tool that really verifies memory stability in only 8 minutes. Was it just an 8 minute test or is there more to your testing than what shows in the screen shot? When overclocking my Samsung B-die 2x8 on Z390 Taichi, I've certainly found situations where a stability issue didn't show up until an hour into testing using RAMTest which is considered one of the quicker tools to identify RAM stability issues. 

FYI, if you understand what all of the different memory timings actually control, you realize that there's a big maze of sequences of read/writes/refreshes to different rows, groups, ranks and DIMMs and testing all the different possible sequences across all the memory likely isn't something that can be done quickly.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

jfriend00 said:


> That's some nice speed. Congrats on getting that to fly.
> 
> What is the DRAM voltage? Do you know who is the maker and type of the RAM chips on those sticks? Samsung B-die? Or something else?
> 
> Your screen shot for Testmem5 (which I'm not familiar with) implies an 8 minute test of your DRAM. I'm not aware of any testing tool that really verifies memory stability in only 8 minutes. Was it just an 8 minute test or is there more to your testing than what shows in the screen shot? When overclocking my Samsung B-die 2x8 on Z390 Taichi, I've certainly found situations where a stability issue didn't show up until an hour into testing using RAMTest which is considered one of the quicker tools to identify RAM stability issues.
> 
> FYI, if you understand what all of the different memory timings actually control, you realize that there's a big maze of sequences of read/writes/refreshes to different rows, groups, ranks and DIMMs and testing all the different possible sequences across all the memory likely isn't something that can be done quickly.


His secondary and tert timings seem to be tuned, the last bit of your post is a bit unnecessary (you just sound condescending).

However I would also be interested to see what voltages he is using as I cant get my 3600cl15 or 3200cl14 kits to post above 4266 no matter the voltages I pump.


----------



## mattliston

@fly1ngh1gh I am surprised that is working with the cache being under the effective ram speed.


any stability issues that randomly pop up?


----------



## Fraizer

oups


----------



## jfriend00

Fraizer said:


> @jfriend00 hi
> 
> my dram voltage : 1.45v VCCIO & VSA both = 1.2500v


 @Fraizer, My previous post was in no way addressed to you at all. 

I quoted @fly1ngh1gh and that's who I was replying to. This thread is being used by lots of different people for lots of related topics.


----------



## Fraizer

oups.. in this case the other answers too ^^


----------



## jfriend00

newfaxwhodis said:


> His secondary and tert timings seem to be tuned, the last bit of your post is a bit unnecessary (you just sound condescending).
> 
> However I would also be interested to see what voltages he is using as I cant get my 3600cl15 or 3200cl14 kits to post above 4266 no matter the voltages I pump.


Yeah, I can't get my 3733cl17 kit to post above 4133, even at 1.50V and loose timings, though it runs great at 4000cl15 and OK at 4133cl17.

Condescension was not meant. Do you not find it a bit curious that a screenshot of what looks like an 8 min memory test is included as evidence of stability? Since it appeared to me that the OP does not understand that 8 minutes is simply not enough time for a thorough test of your memory stability with any tool, the rest of my post was meant as education as to why. 

As a little background, I just finished more than a month of casually working on overclocking my memory and what I included in my post is not stuff I knew myself a month ago. I could get some really nice timings at 4133 that would give me some nice AIDA64 numbers and would sometimes pass RAMTest to 1000%, but they would never pass RAMTest to 4000% (which takes more than an hour to run). That's the kind of thing I would have not known a month ago. I consider any failure at the 4000% mark to be an unstable memory overclock. Now, it's hard to compare these percentage numbers directly to a different testing tool, but its my understanding that RAMTest is considered to be one of the better tools at finding issues and it takes more than an hour to give me a solid test on 16GB (twice as long on 32GB).


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

jfriend00 said:


> That's some nice speed. Congrats on getting that to fly.
> 
> What is the DRAM voltage? Do you know who is the maker and type of the RAM chips on those sticks? Samsung B-die? Or something else?
> 
> Your screen shot for Testmem5 (which I'm not familiar with) implies an 8 minute test of your DRAM. I'm not aware of any testing tool that really verifies memory stability in only 8 minutes. Was it just an 8 minute test or is there more to your testing than what shows in the screen shot? When overclocking my Samsung B-die 2x8 on Z390 Taichi, I've certainly found situations where a stability issue didn't show up until an hour into testing using RAMTest which is considered one of the quicker tools to identify RAM stability issues.
> 
> FYI, if you understand what all of the different memory timings actually control, you realize that there's a big maze of sequences of read/writes/refreshes to different rows, groups, ranks and DIMMs and testing all the different possible sequences across all the memory likely isn't something that can be done quickly.


Thanks







About the voltage, which I used for this frequency
vDram 1.44v, VCCIO - 1.220v, VCCAO 1.300v. These values are set in the BIOS, monitoring AIDA they are slightly higher.
About the most test Testmem5 quite a heavy test for example is several times heavier than the same memtest. Well, as before I said that this is only an outline of the timings for that frequency)


newfaxwhodis said:


> His secondary and tert timings seem to be tuned, the last bit of your post is a bit unnecessary (you just sound condescending).
> 
> However I would also be interested to see what voltages he is using as I cant get my 3600cl15 or 3200cl14 kits to post above 4266 no matter the voltages I pump.


Maybe the emphasis goes to the motherboard or memory controller, it is difficult to say. Recently I had the corsair vengeance rgb cmr16gx4m2c3600c18w and it worked at a frequency of 4266Mhz timings 19-19-19-39/17-18-18-34.



jfriend00 said:


> As a little background, I just finished more than a month of casually working on overclocking my memory and what I included in my post is not stuff I knew myself a month ago.


Everyone has their own method of testing memory and I also have) LinX-v0.9.X, TestMeM5, RamTest and games) I understand perfectly, it takes some time to test the memory)


----------



## jfriend00

fly1ngh1gh said:


> About the most test Testmem5 quite a heavy test for example is several times heavier than the same memtest. Well, as before I said that this is only an outline of the timings for that frequency)
> 
> Maybe the emphasis goes to the motherboard or memory controller, it is difficult to say.


What do you mean "only an outline of the timings"? I don't understand.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

jfriend00 said:


> What do you mean "only an outline of the timings"? I don't understand.


That frequency I only learn and pick up timings. At the moment I use 4500mhz frequency as stable.


----------



## dNhax

Hey folks,

long time reader, first time poster. Thank you all for this wonderful thread! 

I currently have a problem for which I can't find a solution.

I optimized the secondary and tertiary sub-timings of my RAM (G.Skill F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR) and tested the changes successfully with GSAT (stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 28480 --pause_delay 7200). To validate the changes I wanted to run Karhu RAMTest for at least an hour but it quickly gave me an error within 10 minutes.
I use the same timings as in my old 8700k build, which was also GSAT stable for an hour, but cache was not overclocked.

So where is the error?

My settings, readings done with HWiNFO:

CPU: i9-9900k @ 5.1GHz Core, 4.7GHz Cache/Uncore @ 1.36V (BIOS) ~ 1.28V (load), max. 80°C on custom loop
VCCIO: 1.2V (BIOS) ~ 1.232V (Windows)
VCCSA: 1.2375 (BIOS) ~ 1.264V (Windows)
VDIMM: 1.44V (BIOS) ~ 1.45V (Windows)

VCCIO and VCCSA were tested with Prime95 720K and 768K respectively, both for ~10 minutes each. Cache was tested with 512K-572K with Prime95.

I suspect the Cache/Uncore frequency or VCCIO/VCCSA. You got any tips on how I can check it out quick?
Is Prime95 reliable regarding VCCIO/VCCSA and Cache/Uncore? If yes, which FFT sizes do I check with? If no, how do I test these?


Thanks in advance and best regards,

dNhax


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

mattliston said:


> @fly1ngh1gh I am surprised that is working with the cache being under the effective ram speed.
> any stability issues that randomly pop up?


This 4533Mhz frequency, as I said earlier, was not properly tested) While I sit on a frequency where there is good stability, proven by various tests)
Memory at such a frequency has long been tested, and I quickly ran through the test to show you)


----------



## decompiled

Hey guys maybe you can help me out! I have used all three tools in this thread to test a 4x8 32gb kit I have from corsair at stock 2400 & 2666 XMP profiles and they all pass. During a gaming session however hard lock up on the PC. I've switched every component out (Yup every) and finally when I put in a new 2x8 kit no more lock ups. Is there something I'm missing as all the testing utilities are reporting no issues with the 4x8 kit?

Thx


----------



## jfriend00

fly1ngh1gh said:


> This 4533Mhz frequency, as I said earlier, was not properly tested) While I sit on a frequency where there is good stability, proven by various tests)
> Memory at such a frequency has long been tested, and I quickly ran through the test to show you)
> View attachment 251458


FYI, 1000% in RAMTest does not prove stability on my system. I've seen many errors occur in the 3000-4000% range. I've never seen any errors occur over 4000% so it seems like once you get to 4000%, you're pretty solid. When I think I've got something solid, I like to let RAMTest run overnight to verify.


----------



## jfriend00

decompiled said:


> Hey guys maybe you can help me out! I have used all three tools in this thread to test a 4x8 32gb kit I have from corsair at stock 2400 & 2666 XMP profiles and they all pass. During a gaming session however hard lock up on the PC. I've switched every component out (Yup every) and finally when I put in a new 2x8 kit no more lock ups. Is there something I'm missing as all the testing utilities are reporting no issues with the 4x8 kit?
> 
> Thx


What ram testing programs did you run, what configuration and how long did you run them? It's also possible that your gaming produces a temperature condition that the ram testing programs do not and your ram or ram settings are marginal at normal temperatures and fail when the temperature is elevated a bit.


----------



## mouacyk

jfriend00 said:


> FYI, 1000% in RAMTest does not prove stability on my system. I've seen many errors occur in the 3000-4000% range. I've never seen any errors occur over 4000% so it seems like once you get to 4000%, you're pretty solid. When I think I've got something solid, I like to let RAMTest run overnight to verify.


The author actually recommends 10,000% and I concur with that. I've seen errors thrown between 6,000% and 8,000%. You might not run into this if you're not tightening secondary or tertiary timings - meaning with relaxed auto timings by motherboard, it might be good past 4000% as you said.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

jfriend00 said:


> FYI, 1000% in RAMTest does not prove stability on my system. I've seen many errors occur in the 3000-4000% range. I've never seen any errors occur over 4000% so it seems like once you get to 4000%, you're pretty solid. When I think I've got something solid, I like to let RAMTest run overnight to verify.


This frequency has long been tested by many hourly tests, including RamTest 7000% +. It is necessary to test in complex with various tests, and not with one RamTest. Even 10,000% is not an indicator of stability.


----------



## jfriend00

mouacyk said:


> The author actually recommends 10,000% and I concur with that. I've seen errors thrown between 6,000% and 8,000%. You might not run into this if you're not tightening secondary or tertiary timings - meaning with relaxed auto timings by motherboard, it might be good past 4000% as you said.


Like I said, when I think I have a stable configuration, I run a test overnight which goes beyond 20,000%. But, in my practical experience of doing lots of tightening of secondary and tertiary timings and running RAMTest probably 500 times, I've never seen a failure beyond 4000%. 

What this meant to me practically, is that I can make a timing tweak, test to 4000%, then if it passes at that, go onto the next tweak. Then, at the next pause in using my computer to go do something else, I can run a longer test to confirm. Testing to 10,000% between individual tweaks is impractical because of the time it takes. Making multiple tweaks and then running a longer test is problematic because if it fails, you haven't really learned anything yet, you have to then go backtrack and test each change individually anyway. So, I settled on 4000% as the shortest meaningful test before advancing that will then be confirmed by a longer test sometime later in the day.

One thing I'm a bit surprised is that there appears to be no memory test tool that actually runs a test that stresses each individual timing. It may even be possible for it to tell you which timing it was stressing when it failed. For example tFAW is specifically about a certain type of repetitive access on the same group. And, all the tertiaries are about very specific types of accesses like tRDRD_sg is delay between successive reads to the same group or tRDRD_dd is delay between successive reads between different DIMMs on the same channel. tRDRD_dr is delay between successive reads between different ranks on the same DIMM. It seems each of these could be specifically tested individually if the software was smart enough to figure out the layout of memory across the DIMMs and channels.

FYI, the RAMTest site states coverage in terms of percentages which is never explained where this comes from. Perhaps some statistical prediction.


----------



## jfriend00

fly1ngh1gh said:


> This frequency has long been tested by many hourly tests, including RamTest 7000% +. It is necessary to test in complex with various tests, and not with one RamTest. Even 10,000% is not an indicator of stability.


OK, then it would be more useful to tell us how you proved stability rather than show us a 1000% RAMTest screenshot or the other 8 minute test. That's all I'm trying to indicate here. Multiple times you've posted a screenshot of a short memory test implying that it proves stability when it doesn't. If you want to convey that you've proven stability, then please actually share enough for us to know what you did or don't include the short test screenshot at all. I'm done on this topic.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

jfriend00 said:


> OK, then it would be more useful to tell us how you proved stability rather than show us a 1000% RAMTest screenshot or the other 8 minute test. That's all I'm trying to indicate here. Multiple times you've posted a screenshot of a short memory test implying that it proves stability when it doesn't. If you want to convey that you've proven stability, then please actually share enough for us to know what you did or don't include the short test screenshot at all. I'm done on this topic.


You are aggressive and the conversation is over. The fact that you are not able to do a normal acceleration - it's your problem.
Memory at this frequency 4500Mhz tested for 2 months by various tests and games. Everything is stable and I'm happy. You need to accept the fact that you have a banal frequency and not envy others.


----------



## mouacyk

Go GSAT 2 hours 90% allocation for verification.


----------



## decompiled

jfriend00 said:


> What ram testing programs did you run, what configuration and how long did you run them? It's also possible that your gaming produces a temperature condition that the ram testing programs do not and your ram or ram settings are marginal at normal temperatures and fail when the temperature is elevated a bit.


I did GSAT with (stressapptest -W -s 7200), HCI Memtest (900%) and RamTest (800%) all at the recommended intervals. Temps were all good. Ram around 31-34c. 

Thank for you reply.


----------



## mouacyk

decompiled said:


> I did GSAT with (stressapptest -W -s 7200), HCI Memtest (900%) and RamTest (800%) all at the recommended intervals. Temps were all good. Ram around 31-34c.
> 
> Thank for you reply.


How much capacity was actually tested? Under linux, GSAT defaults to 256MB only. Need to specify 90% of total capacity with -M parameter. HCI at 900% is good but how much RAM was tested? RAMTest at 800% is nothing, unless you missed a 0 and its supposed to be 8,000%.


----------



## decompiled

mouacyk said:


> How much capacity was actually tested? Under linux, GSAT defaults to 256MB only. Need to specify 90% of total capacity with -M parameter. HCI at 900% is good but how much RAM was tested? RAMTest at 800% is nothing, unless you missed a 0 and its supposed to be 8,000%.


Thanks I must have missed the -M param for GSAT :facepalm: 

All Free ram was tested which is about 28/32gb. RamTest was just 800% but I did see in the thread today people are advising 10,000% for real stability. I am kind of shocked that stock speeds for this RAM are failing during gaming. I was wondering if it was just a 2 dimm vs 4 dimm thing with my ASUS Z270 & 7600K. Since I switched to these Corsair 3000 2 dimm setup it's been no crashing. I've got the RAM going into another build and I'll retest longer. Could just be a bad stick in the kit I guess.


----------



## kongasdf

tistou77 said:


> You're sure ?


Quite Sure.

Correction:
Left is A0, Right is A1.

Who told you A1, GALAXY?
Who made the standard, not JEDEC?

Here is the reference
https://www.hkepc.com/17568/完全性能先決__PATRIOT_VIPER_STEEL_DDR4-4400_記憶體


----------



## jfriend00

decompiled said:


> I did GSAT with (stressapptest -W -s 7200), HCI Memtest (900%) and RamTest (800%) all at the recommended intervals. Temps were all good. Ram around 31-34c.
> 
> Thank for you reply.


RAMTest must be run to over 10,000% to have confidence. When I think I have a stable configuration, I run it overnight to be sure. I've regularly seen errors in RAMTest not show up until 3000-4000%. There are a lot of different memory access sequences across all the memory chips required to know that all the memory timings are really functioning correctly. I don't know how much is needed for the others.

I have no idea if this will find your issue, but you really want to rule out a memory issue that the test apps can find.


----------



## GeneO

decompiled said:


> Thanks I must have missed the -M param for GSAT :facepalm:
> 
> All Free ram was tested which is about 28/32gb. RamTest was just 800% but I did see in the thread today people are advising 10,000% for real stability. I am kind of shocked that stock speeds for this RAM are failing during gaming. I was wondering if it was just a 2 dimm vs 4 dimm thing with my ASUS Z270 & 7600K. Since I switched to these Corsair 3000 2 dimm setup it's been no crashing. I've got the RAM going into another build and I'll retest longer. Could just be a bad stick in the kit I guess.



Isn't RAMtest at 10,000% for 16GB of RAM equivalent to RAMtest for 32 GB at 5,000% coverage as far as stability is concerned?


----------



## Silent Scone

With RAMTest, 5k% for both densities should be more than ample for most users. In truth, I rarely run 32GB beyond 500% coverage, and my system is on 24/7 and used for several hours each day. Mixing a variety of stress tests is the best remedy, and it's still possible to induce bit errors beyond 10,000%. 

Where data integrity is imperative or when running RAM intensive workloads it's wise to be more cautious, but for your average gamer or enthusiast, it's not necessary. In short, if one wishes to run to 10k and beyond that's their prerogative, but pushing that everyone should do the same as proof is illogical. No overclock is 100% unconditional.

EDIT: It's worth stipulating that RAMTest is an absolutely brutal test of stability, even when compared with Stressapp, which is fundamentally better at isolating the memory subsystem.


----------



## jfriend00

Silent Scone said:


> With RAMTest, 5k% for both densities should be more than ample for most users. In truth, I rarely run 32GB beyond 500% coverage, and my system is on 24/7 and used for several hours each day. Mixing a variety of stress tests is the best remedy, and it's still possible to induce bit errors beyond 10,000%.
> 
> Where data integrity is imperative or when running RAM intensive workloads it's wise to be more cautious, but for your average gamer or enthusiast, it's not necessary. In short, if one wishes to run to 10k and beyond that's their prerogative, but pushing that everyone should do the same as proof is illogical. No overclock is 100% unconditional.
> 
> EDIT: It's worth stipulating that RAMTest is an absolutely brutal test of stability, even when compared with Stressapp, which is fundamentally better at isolating the memory subsystem.


Per the RAMTest FAQ, running to 400% on 16GB gives you 83% confidence that you've found errors that are there, 800% gives you 91%. I don't know where those numbers come from, but if they're anywhere close to correct, neither of those are very thorough testing. It's at 6400% that you get to 99.4%. I don't know how these numbers scale to 32GB. I know from experience that when testing 32GB, the percentage numbers advance significantly slower than when testing 16GB which would make me think that the percentage numbers apply equally no matter what the total amount of RAM.

It stuns me that you would be thinking that ANY level of memory instability is acceptable. Maybe a loss of a bit in some piece of gaming data is not big deal, but a loss of a bit in some variable used to hold an address of that data probably causes a crash and many enthusiasts (like myself) do other things besides gaming (like photography or video that can use a lot of memory) where I have zero interest in losing bits in my data or exposing myself to a crash. The way to minimize that possibility is to do rigorous stability testing to verify you have memory timings that are stable in all conditions. Overclocking memory can be done in a way that is just as stable as not-overclocking, but it takes rigor to do so and you probably can't push it as far if you're holding stability to a higher standard.

IMO, this is different than deciding how hard you're going to stress your CPU overclock. With memory, you have no way of predicting what a given app is going to do with your memory and how to test just to the standards of that particular app. IMO, you need to prove your memory overclock is absolutely stable so any app will work just fine. If you don't, you open yourself up to random crashes. A loss of a bit not only can corrupt data, but it can easily lead to random crashes if that bit is in the wrong variable.

Here's what RAMTest says about percent coverage:


----------



## Silent Scone

jfriend00 said:


> Per the RAMTest FAQ, running to 400% on 16GB gives you 83% confidence that you've found errors that are there, 800% gives you 91%. I don't know where those numbers come from, but if they're anywhere close to correct, neither of those are very thorough testing. It's at 6400% that you get to 99.4%. I don't know how these numbers scale to 32GB. I know from experience that when testing 32GB, the percentage numbers advance significantly slower than when testing 16GB which would make me think that the percentage numbers apply equally no matter what the total amount of RAM.
> 
> It stuns me that you would be thinking that ANY level of memory instability is acceptable. Maybe a loss of a bit in some piece of gaming data is not big deal, but a loss of a bit in some variable used to hold an address of that data probably causes a crash and many enthusiasts (like myself) do other things besides gaming (like photography or video that can use a lot of memory) where I have zero interest in losing bits in my data or exposing myself to a crash. The way to minimize that possibility is to do rigorous stability testing to verify you have memory timings that are stable in all conditions. Overclocking memory can be done in a way that is just as stable as not-overclocking, but it takes rigor to do so and you probably can't push it as far if you're holding stability to a higher standard.
> 
> IMO, this is different than deciding how hard you're going to stress your CPU overclock. With memory, you have no way of predicting what a given app is going to do with your memory and how to test just to the standards of that particular app. IMO, you need to prove your memory overclock is absolutely stable so any app will work just fine. If you don't, you open yourself up to random crashes. A loss of a bit not only can corrupt data, but it can easily lead to random crashes if that bit is in the wrong variable.
> 
> Here's what RAMTest says about percent coverage:


It stuns you because you don't comprehend how and at what level these bit errors occur. To clarify this, I would need to ask you if you believed that if you let the test run indefinitely, or say to 30,000% - 100,000% that you wouldn't receive errors? Moreover, I've already clarified the need for caution when integrity is important, so you're arguing with yourself.

TLDR; It's not practical to keep pushing advice whereby it means the user needs to run RAMTest for tens of hundreds of passes every time they need to check memory stability. The numbers you are quoting come from the author, so perhaps you should check with them for clarification (put the onus on the fact there is no coverage for 100%)


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> Any body can help to finish the overcloking of my memory pelase ?
> i am blocked since many days on my computer project because this situation
> all the instructions i follow begin from https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-807.html#post27827150 but i can resume all in 1 post


It seems that you have a decent 3600 and higher. Pick one and tune it further - test stabilty and post back. There's no sense in fooling around with pseudo-stable settings. REad thru the thread, you will learn a lot - enough to proceed on your own. :thumb:



fly1ngh1gh said:


> That frequency I only learn and pick up timings. At the moment I use 4500mhz frequency as stable.


I run my 8086K at 4400c17 with 1T (posted that here months ago), I find that it is quicker and lower latency than 4500c18 2T (1T at 4500 has been a problem for my kit).


jfriend00 said:


> *RAMTest must be run to over 10,000% to have confidence*. When I think I have a stable configuration, I run it overnight to be sure. I've regularly seen errors in RAMTest not show up until 3000-4000%. There are a lot of different memory access sequences across all the memory chips required to know that all the memory timings are really functioning correctly. I don't know how much is needed for the others.
> 
> I have no idea if this will find your issue, but you really want to rule out a memory issue that the test apps can find.


 Scone chimed in... good to see you here bro. 



I'll corroborate Scone's post - your 10,000% statement is misleading. Frankly, if a use scenario requires real confidence in ram fidelity, use EEC ram. Our desktop/gaming stuff is fine after a few 1000% at most (I'm good with 1 hour GSAT - never had a ram issue on any rig after 1 hour GSAT).


----------



## jfriend00

Silent Scone said:


> It stuns you because you don't comprehend how and at what level these bit errors occur. To clarify this, I would need to ask you if you believed that if you let the test run indefinitely, or say to 30,000% - 100,000% that you wouldn't receive errors? Moreover, I've already clarified the need for caution when integrity is important, so you're arguing with yourself.
> 
> TLDR; It's not practical to keep pushing advice whereby it means the user needs to run RAMTest for tens of hundreds of passes every time they need to check memory stability. The numbers you are quoting come from the author, so perhaps you should check with them for clarification (put the onus on the fact there is no coverage for 100%)


FYI, I do let it run to 60,000-100,000% when I think I've finally got a stable configuration and I want to verify. It's a trivial test. Just let it run when you're asleep/away for awhile. And, if it found an error, I would consider my system not yet stable. Personally, I've rarely seen an error occur beyond 4000%, but I have regularly seen errors between 2000-4000% so I tend to use 4000% for intermediate testing while tweaking as an indicator that perhaps the latest tweak is solid (before investing time in the next tweak). But when I take a break from the computer and I want to know if I'm really stable, I run the longer test to verify. Since it costs none of your time to let a longer test run when you're going to be away from your computer for awhile, I don't know why everyone wouldn't do that to verify your stability. I've had a pretty nice memory overclock that would consistently pass 800% and not pass 4000% that I had to abandon as just no way to get it stable. I had to back down the frequency to get it to always be stable.

One thing I think people need to get used to is that memory stability is different than CPU overclock stability. With the CPU, many people are perfectly fine with picking a CPU torture test that is analogous to what the software they actually use actually does to their CPU. So while Prime95 set to it's worst settings might put their CPU into thermal throttling, if none of the apps they actually run use the CPU that hard, then they may be OK with a much less strenuous CPU overclock test. I don't quite feel like memory overclocking is the same because you simply can't predict or measure memory stress of the apps you use the same way you can with CPU load. A relatively non-stressful, but unusual memory access pattern from an innocuous app could trigger an issue with one wrong memory timing on one memory chip that leads to data corruption or crash. I think most people care about that, no matter what apps they run and would want to test their ram configuration enough to be confident that won't happen.

So, I'm arguing that everyone actually thinks memory "integrity is important", not just a few people because pretty much everyone doesn't want their system to crash or corrupt data running some random app that happens to trigger an error in some memory chip in their DRAM. That's perhaps our main disagreement.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Jpmboy said:


> I run my 8086K at 4400c17 with 1T (posted that here months ago), I find that it is quicker and lower latency than 4500c18 2T (1T at 4500 has been a problem for my kit).


This is a great result!:thumb: What was the latency?


----------



## kignt

Silent Scone said:


> ... the fact there is no coverage for 100%)


I asked a buddy who does math theory to calculate coverage for 12800%. He said he "tried all the basic statistical **** on this, and im starting to think that these values werent determined mathematically, but rather through sampling; so idk if you can actually calculate the % for 12800"


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> I asked a buddy who does math theory to calculate coverage for 12800%. He said he "tried all the basic statistical **** on this, and im starting to think that these values werent determined mathematically, but rather through sampling; so idk if you can actually calculate the % for 12800"


Does anyone know a way to reach or involve the author of RAMTest to ask them? I found no indications anywhere on the RAMTest website when I looked for other reasons (feature suggestion).


----------



## Jpmboy

fly1ngh1gh said:


> This is a great result!:thumb: What was the latency?


 36-something ns (cpu at 52core 50 cache). it is somewhere in this thread.... 
the IMC on the 8086K is (usually) very good. Just needs good sticks to tango.


----------



## Silent Scone

jfriend00 said:


> FYI, I do let it run to 60,000-100,000% when I think I've finally got a stable configuration and I want to verify. It's a trivial test. Just let it run when you're asleep/away for awhile. And, if it found an error, I would consider my system not yet stable. Personally, I've rarely seen an error occur beyond 4000%, but I have regularly seen errors between 2000-4000% so I tend to use 4000% for intermediate testing while tweaking as an indicator that perhaps the latest tweak is solid (before investing time in the next tweak). But when I take a break from the computer and I want to know if I'm really stable, I run the longer test to verify. Since it costs none of your time to let a longer test run when you're going to be away from your computer for awhile, I don't know why everyone wouldn't do that to verify your stability. I've had a pretty nice memory overclock that would consistently pass 800% and not pass 4000% that I had to abandon as just no way to get it stable. I had to back down the frequency to get it to always be stable.
> 
> One thing I think people need to get used to is that memory stability is different than CPU overclock stability. With the CPU, many people are perfectly fine with picking a CPU torture test that is analogous to what the software they actually use actually does to their CPU. So while Prime95 set to it's worst settings might put their CPU into thermal throttling, if none of the apps they actually run use the CPU that hard, then they may be OK with a much less strenuous CPU overclock test. I don't quite feel like memory overclocking is the same because you simply can't predict or measure memory stress of the apps you use the same way you can with CPU load. A relatively non-stressful, but unusual memory access pattern from an innocuous app could trigger an issue with one wrong memory timing on one memory chip that leads to data corruption or crash. I think most people care about that, no matter what apps they run and would want to test their ram configuration enough to be confident that won't happen.
> 
> So, I'm arguing that everyone actually thinks memory "integrity is important", not just a few people because pretty much everyone doesn't want their system to crash or corrupt data running some random app that happens to trigger an error in some memory chip in their DRAM. That's perhaps our main disagreement.



As I've already said, the way you test your own system is your prerogative, and it's good to have a stringent methodology with these things. However, there are a few things you need to realise when pushing your own ideals onto others

No DRAM overclock is going to be unconditionally (100%) stable. When driven out of spec, all CPU and memory IC is susceptible to instability. Changes in temperature during working operation effecting things such as impedance being one of many reasons that require an understanding of electrical engineering that very few will attest to knowing fully. If one was to run the test indefinitely whilst the system is overclocked, there's a possibility it would find an error. Nobody is arguing memory integrity isn't important, but that doesn't change things that, ultimately, come down to physics. If we push the system out of spec then there is always a chance that there will be errors.


----------



## Jpmboy

most users just plug in a kit (or two  ), select XMP and assume it is stable.... "but for" threads like this, there be rose-colored ram spectacles for everyone.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> most users just plug in a kit (or two  ), select XMP and assume it is stable.... "but for" threads like this, there be rose-colored ram spectacles for everyone.


Yeah, there are different grades to this stuff. Obviously, if data integrity is truly imperative then overclocking at all is ill-advised.


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Hey jpmboy, I'm looking into grabbing either an Asus maximus x Apex or the z390 Dark for my 8700k with either my 3200cl14 or 3600cl15 kit.

I don't think my z370 taichi can really unlock the potential for my kits (cant post 4266 at all, 4400 cl19-19-19-39-2 only with fclk at 400/800 + 3.3 bios). (Just feels ****ty overall)

Do you happen to have an opinion on which of those boards are better? I haven't found any comparisons on their capabilities.


----------



## Jpmboy

newfaxwhodis said:


> Hey jpmboy, I'm looking into grabbing either an Asus maximus x Apex or the z390 Dark for my 8700k with either my 3200cl14 or 3600cl15 kit.
> 
> I don't think my z370 taichi can really unlock the potential for my kits (cant post 4266 at all, 4400 cl19-19-19-39-2 only with fclk at 400/800 + 3.3 bios). (Just feels ****ty overall)
> 
> Do you happen to have an opinion on which of those boards are better? I haven't found any comparisons on their capabilities.


Well... I don't know the z390 Dark. The Max X Apex however is a fine ram OC board. I can literally swap a 3600c15 and 4400c19 kit into my X Apex and just boot the 3866 and 4000 settings. My 3600c15 kit is not happy running higher than 4000 (at 1.45V or lower) while the 4400c19 kit is currently at 4400c17 24/7 at 1.45V. The thing is, the 3600c15 kit is MUCH better at bench timings (4000c12, 4133c12) than the 4400c19 kit I have. Like I've said before, ram is "like a box of chocolates".


----------



## dNhax

dNhax said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> long time reader, first time poster. Thank you all for this wonderful thread!
> 
> I currently have a problem for which I can't find a solution.
> 
> I optimized the secondary and tertiary sub-timings of my RAM (G.Skill F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR, should be *Samsung B-Die*) and tested the changes successfully with GSAT (stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 28480 --pause_delay 7200). To validate the changes I wanted to run Karhu RAMTest for at least an hour but it quickly gave me an error within 10 minutes.
> I use the same timings as in my old 8700k build, which was also GSAT stable for an hour, but cache was not overclocked.
> 
> So where is the error?
> 
> My settings, readings done with HWiNFO:
> 
> MB: ASUS Maximus XI Hero
> CPU: i9-9900k @ 5.1GHz Core, 4.7GHz Cache/Uncore @ 1.36V (BIOS) ~ 1.28V (load), max. 80°C on custom loop
> VCCIO: *1.2V (BIOS) ~ 1.232V (Windows)*
> VCCSA: *1.2375 (BIOS) ~ 1.264V (Windows)*
> VDIMM: *1.44V (BIOS) ~ 1.45V (Windows)*
> 
> VCCIO and VCCSA were tested with Prime95 720K and 768K respectively, both for ~10 minutes each. Cache was tested with 512K-572K with Prime95.
> 
> I suspect the Cache/Uncore frequency or VCCIO/VCCSA. You got any tips on how I can check it out quick?
> Is Prime95 reliable regarding VCCIO/VCCSA and Cache/Uncore? If yes, which FFT sizes do I check with? If no, how do I test these?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance and best regards,
> 
> dNhax


My post probably got overlooked.. anyone has an idea?


----------



## jfriend00

dNhax said:


> My post probably got overlooked.. anyone has an idea?


It's really not possible to tell where the error is without trial and error. You will have to loosen the timings until RAMTest shows no error and then you can tighten them one at a time trying to identify which one caused the issue. It's a lengthy trial and error process. Sometimes you can learn something by looking at other people's timings and voltage for the same frequency and same type of memory chips to see what you might be doing differently or to get ideas about what to try, but in the end it's a trial and error process to find what is causing the instability. 

From my experience, your VCCSA and VCCIO are probably fine, though you could try going higher with VCCIO. So, it's probably some of the timings.

If you post an ASRock Timing Configurator that shows all your timings and your DRAM voltage and you post something that identifies what type of memory chips you have, then folks here might be able to offer ideas. 

FYI, 32GB is a lot harder to get stable at an overclocked speed than 16GB (particularly at or above 4000) - probably because a lot more timings come into play as you now have multiple ranks on each channel and with two ranks per DIMM with your 16GB DIMMs, you have more potential for noise/interference. I've read (no personal experience myself) that the RGB DIMMs might be harder to overclock too.

Some folks achieve success with their desired overclock at 32GB, some do not. Obviously since the DIMMs are rated at 4133, G.Skill thinks they're capable of that, but getting there needs timings and voltages coordinated with the environment (IMC, motherboard, etc...).


----------



## kignt

I didn't consider CL 19 until seeing fly1ngh1gh's post. Copied most of his (thanks!), and surprised that my kit would POST up to ddr4-4300. Continued tweaking from there while referencing sdch's post from Jan 1st '19 (thanks for updates!). 

Upping IO/SA voltages seemed to help with POST success rate, especially from full shutdowns, not just resets. I wanted to pass karhu's RAM test with cache enabled, since sdch pointed out from the readme that it tests faster. I was stuck for about two weeks until loosening WTR_L and WTR_S. 

other: weird visual speck in RAM test window some times show; started ever since enabled freesync with my nvidia card to work with windowed and fullscreen apps. 

In Aida64, right click the 'start benchmark' button to see options. Able to skip cache test. 

The hci "speed" appears slower compared to when I tested 4000c16-17, but I'll tweak further. I mostly use my system for gaming, but I'm still paranoid about ram OC corrupting the OS. So I wanted to pass hci 800 and karhu 12800. 

Recently did short tests, but higher uncore also raised the ram bandwidth (work in progress)...


----------



## ptuga

I'm having some issues with memory training at 4000mhz with latest bios for my z370m gaming pro ac. RDWR_sg and RDWR_dg keep changing every time i train my memory and if it trains to 14 it's unstable at 4000mhz unless i set really lose RRDs. 

The board doesn't respect the values i set manually soo i can't do a thing. I now run 3866 16-16-16 instead of 4000 17-17-17, since i need to loose a lot of stuff to make stable when it decides to train to 14.

Any ideas?

(screenshoot of stable tight 3866mhz with RDWR_sg 14).


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> In Aida64, right click the 'start benchmark' button to see options. Able to skip cache test.


What a cool trick! For anyone tweak sub-timings and running AIDA64 a lot to see the effect, this is a major time saver.


----------



## JoeRambo

jfriend00 said:


> What a cool trick! For anyone tweak sub-timings and running AIDA64 a lot to see the effect, this is a major time saver.





Isn't just clicking on "Memory" label in Aida even faster? Also works for other tests as well.


----------



## tistou77

kongasdf said:


> Quite Sure.
> 
> Correction:
> Left is A0, Right is A1.
> 
> Who told you A1, GALAXY?
> Who made the standard, not JEDEC?
> 
> Here is the reference
> https://www.hkepc.com/17568/完全性能先決__PATRIOT_VIPER_STEEL_DDR4-4400_記憶體


Ok thanks, but A2 is the bottom one ?
and A0 or A1 for the top one


----------



## kignt

JoeRambo said:


> Isn't just clicking on "Memory" label in Aida even faster? Also works for other tests as well.


Yes! very neat, individually test L1 cache, etc..


----------



## EEH89

The meaning of diamond memory stability.
i7 6900K 4.3Ghz 1.34V
ASUS X99 STRIX
2400Mhz 32GB DDR4 OC to 2933Mhz 14-16-16-31 1.35V

CPU Cache @ 36 1.2V
VCCIO 1.032V
VCCSA 1.016V Idle 1.008V Load
VCCIN 1.9V LLC6
Karhu RAM TEST 1.1.0.0


----------



## EEH89

Result:


----------



## SoldierRBT

Hi,

I have my 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 memory kit F4-3600C16D-16GTZR overclocked to 4266MHZ CL18 stable on HCI Memtest 1000% (around 7 hours). The settings I changed on BIOS were the following:
tCL 18
tRCD 18
tRP 18
tRAS 38
CR 2
tRFC 520

DRAM: 1.46v (1.456v steady on Windows)
CPU IO: 1.30v
CPU SA: 1.35v

Everything else was on auto. Is this okay? should I change some values? I'm going to try to lower IO, SA and DRAM voltage as much as possible this weekend.


----------



## jfriend00

SoldierRBT said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have my 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 memory kit F4-3600C16D-16GTZR overclocked to 4266MHZ CL18 stable on HCI Memtest 1000% (around 7 hours). The settings I changed on BIOS were the following:
> tCL 18
> tRCD 18
> tRP 18
> tRAS 38
> CR 2
> tRFC 520
> 
> DRAM: 1.46v (1.456v steady on Windows)
> CPU IO: 1.30v
> CPU SA: 1.35v
> 
> Everything else was on auto. Is this okay? should I change some values? I'm going to try to lower IO, SA and DRAM voltage as much as possible this weekend.


Looks pretty good. VCCIO and VCCSA do look a bit high and lowering them can reduce temps on your CPU overclock, but what is needed can vary from one board to the next. What would be useful to see is your AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers. Then, we can see how your performance numbers look vs. others. Once you have stability at a frequency, you either decide whether you're going to try for a higher frequency or tighten secondary and tertiary timings to maximize performance at this frequency.


----------



## Fraizer

Jpmboy said:


> It seems that you have a decent 3600 and higher. Pick one and tune it further - test stabilty and post back. There's no sense in fooling around with pseudo-stable settings. REad thru the thread, you will learn a lot - enough to proceed on your own. :thumb:


hi man

i fault i make you crazy or said something bad to not see any answer. i am glad to hear you again 

then after i fault you disapear for my problem i tried many things but like you know not realy with good knowleges then realy many days of test for almost nothing i think...

i am sorry to answer so late but i dont know why i dont get any email notification... even on my topic.

do you see all the stability test i make after each timing ? those you request from me on your post here and answerd under with many screenshot test : https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...el-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread-813.html


it was an answer to you message here :



Jpmboy said:


> okay in bios - to start let's change
> 
> tWR to 18
> tRFC to 425 (you can try 374)
> tRTP to 8
> tFAW to 36 (we'll lower this once we see it RDD_s can be lower... later)
> 
> try these in sequence, save a asrock TC snip if each will boot and post back (i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol). Feel free to test stability "at your perference"
> run an AID64memory test to see if there is benefit. Honestly, for 24/7 4133c16 is pretty damn good!



i gess now i am waiting like the RDD_s. do you saw on my test that : "(i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol)"

last thing i just update my topic here https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...t-because-4600-impossible-7.html#post27843498 where i said i put an xmp rpofile to test with your great value and give me i thing a good gain in writing speed... i post there screeshot of bench and speed and screenshots of my memory type i had with Thaiphoon Burner 15.0.0.1 free version it show if i am not wrong like i have A1 chips..

About your question of stability i amke this last setting with GAST stability test get No error. this line: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 7200

it will be realy great if you have time to help me to end this oc


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

*Fraizer*
Hi
To start, put the values tWRWR_dg 4, which is shown in the picture - it will raise you write/copy and continue to test)







UP:
Excuse me! Saw your other link with the correction of this value.


----------



## Jpmboy

dNhax said:


> My post probably got overlooked.. anyone has an idea?


not overloked at all... you point pout that the cache is not overclocked in the one test... basically a RAM OC is also an OC on the CPU IMC and cache (on many platforms cache needs to have a min freq = 1/2 ram speed, or = to freq... eg 4000 ram needs a min ache of 2000). So... you may need to increase the vcore/cache voltage. GSAT is very good at isolating the ram subsystem, but can miss cache related instability.


SoldierRBT said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have my 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 memory kit F4-3600C16D-16GTZR overclocked to 4266MHZ CL18 stable on HCI Memtest 1000% (around 7 hours). The settings I changed on BIOS were the following:
> tCL 18
> tRCD 18
> tRP 18
> tRAS 38
> CR 2
> tRFC 520
> 
> DRAM: 1.46v (1.456v steady on Windows)
> CPU IO: 1.30v
> CPU SA: 1.35v
> 
> E*verything else was on auto. Is this okay?* should I change some values? I'm going to try to lower IO, SA and DRAM voltage as much as possible this weekend.


it's stable... so yeah, it's better than okay! I would try lowering the SA and IO voltages tho. Always look for the min voltage needed for any OC. :thumb:


Fraizer said:


> hi man
> 
> i fault i make you crazy or said something bad to not see any answer. i am glad to hear you again
> then after i fault you disapear for my problem i tried many things but like you know not realy with good knowleges then realy many days of test for almost nothing i think...
> i am sorry to answer so late but i dont know why i dont get any email notification... even on my topic.
> do you see all the stability test i make after each timing ? those you request from me on your post here and answerd under with many screenshot test : https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...el-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread-813.html
> it was an answer to you message here :
> i gess now i am waiting like the RDD_s. do you saw on my test that : "(i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol)"
> last thing i just update my topic here https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...t-because-4600-impossible-7.html#post27843498 where i said i put an xmp rpofile to test with your great value and give me i thing a good gain in writing speed... i post there screeshot of bench and speed and screenshots of my memory type i had with Thaiphoon Burner 15.0.0.1 free version it show if i am not wrong like i have A1 chips..
> About your question of stability i amke this last setting with GAST stability test get No error. this line: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 7200 --pause_delay 7200
> it will be realy great *if you have time to help me to end this oc*


?? NOt sure what the specific question is. The settings are stable in GSAT... is that not the "end". 
USe the rig and if there are any ram issues, post back.


----------



## Jpmboy

fly1ngh1gh said:


> *Fraizer*
> Hi
> To start, put the values tWRWR_dg 4, which is shown in the picture - it will raise you write/copy and continue to test)
> View attachment 252164
> 
> UP:
> Excuse me! Saw your other link with the correction of this value.


 ^^ :thumb::thumb:


----------



## kongasdf

tistou77 said:


> Ok thanks, but A2 is the bottom one ?
> and A0 or A1 for the top one
> 
> View attachment 251990


A1 and A2 are very similar and both of them are arranged at the bottom.
The only difference between A1 and A2 is the chips of A2 is tighter.

As far as I know, only GALAXY calls A0 as A1.


----------



## Martin778

I'm looking for a nice, tight 4200-4400 setup. What do you guys think? The attached one threw 2 errors at 60% memtest.


----------



## dNhax

Jpmboy said:


> not overloked at all... you point pout that the cache is not overclocked in the one test... basically a RAM OC is also an OC on the CPU IMC and cache (on many platforms cache needs to have a min freq = 1/2 ram speed, or = to freq... eg 4000 ram needs a min ache of 2000). So... you may need to increase the vcore/cache voltage. GSAT is very good at isolating the ram subsystem, but can miss cache related instability.


Thank you! 

So basically IO/SA and RAM are good to go and it's most likely the cache frequency?
Will test this tomorrow morning and report back.


----------



## chibi

Martin778 said:


> I'm looking for a nice, tight 4200-4400 setup. What do you guys think? The attached one threw 2 errors at 60% memtest.



Your attached OC is no good if it's already throwing errors at 60%. Your timing doesn't look correct either with some calculations, ie tRAS = CAS+tRCD+tRTP. You have it entered at 34 when it should be 46 according to the rest of your timings. Also, your tFAW is super high, it should be tRRD x 4.

Have a look at Scone's opening post, he included a good timing guide.

Have a look at my timings below and see a comparison of tight secondary + tertiary timings. 2000% HCI Memtest and 1 hour GSAT stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

Martin778 said:


> I'm looking for a nice, tight 4200-4400 setup. What do you guys think? The attached one threw 2 errors at 60% memtest.


try 17-18-18, and lower tWR to 17.https://www.overclock.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=27845012 


dNhax said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So basically IO/SA and RAM are good to go and it's most likely the cache frequency?
> Will test this tomorrow morning and report back.


I'd first increase the vcore/vcache by 5-10mV as run the test that failed again. Try thaty before increasing cache freq.


----------



## jfriend00

chibi said:


> Your attached OC is no good if it's already throwing errors at 60%. Your timing doesn't look correct either with some calculations, ie tRAS = CAS+tRCD+tRTP. You have it entered at 34 when it should be 46 according to the rest of your timings. Also, your tFAW is super high, it should be tRRD x 4.
> 
> Have a look at Scone's opening post, he included a good timing guide.
> 
> Have a look at my timings below and see a comparison of tight secondary + tertiary timings. 2000% HCI Memtest and 1 hour GSAT stable.


It's been pretty much shown that tRAS = CAS+tRCD+tRTP is no longer true. tRAS values are often below that. Heck, my current sticks are XMP rated at [email protected] which would imply a tRTP of 3 which is simply not the case (I've optimized it down to a value of 6, but it defaulted to a value even higher).


----------



## Jpmboy

fly1ngh1gh said:


> *Fraizer*
> Hi
> To start, put the values tWRWR_dg 4, which is shown in the picture - it will raise you write/copy and continue to test)
> View attachment 252164
> 
> UP:
> Excuse me! Saw your other link with the correction of this value.


I'm not sure what's going on there, but the w/c speeds are a bit off for 4133. There's a timing clash somewhere in there... here's a pretty routine 4000 on the same board with a 32GB 3600c16 kit. Granted I am using a 9700K (no HT) so if anything, the throughput should be slightly lower. I'm not sure which setting it is, but somethin' ain't right. (I ran the same clocks you show for core and cache - the W/C speeds in your post have been bugging me  )


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Would it be ok to assume the Asus maximus xi Apex be as good as the x apex? I'm planning to pair this with my 8700k, I don't think I would be losing functionality.


----------



## Timur Born

chibi said:


> Your timing doesn't look correct either with some calculations, ie tRAS = CAS+tRCD+tRTP.
> ...
> Have a look at my timings below and see a comparison of tight secondary + tertiary timings. 2000% HCI Memtest and 1 hour GSAT stable.


But then your own tRAS should be at 40 instead of 38 according to the formula given by you?


----------



## Fissa

Anybody on a Asus z390 maximus code\hero that populated 4 dimms that can share their settings? I'm having trouble on 4133mhz xmp


----------



## dNhax

Jpmboy said:


> I'd first increase the vcore/vcache by 5-10mV as run the test that failed again. Try thaty before increasing cache freq.


So, I ran a few tests in the last few hours. Results:

4133-17-17-17-37 and optimized sub-timings and reduced Cache @ 4.3GHz: error within 10-15 minutes (may be temperature related?).
3200-14-14-14-34 and auto sub-timings and overclocked Cache @ 4.7GHz: stable for 2000% (and probably further).

So can I assume the cache is stable @ 4.7GHz?

This would mean that the optimized sub-timings are not stable, even though GSAT ran for 1 hour without errors (and same temperatures as Karhu RAMTest).

So I guess I have to start over? Boy, overclocking RAM is truly a rabbit hole, but interesting none the less.


----------



## Jpmboy

dNhax said:


> So, I ran a few tests in the last few hours. Results:
> 
> 4133-17-17-17-37 and optimized sub-timings and reduced Cache @ 4.3GHz: error within 10-15 minutes (may be temperature related?).
> 3200-14-14-14-34 and auto sub-timings and overclocked Cache @ 4.7GHz: stable for 2000% (and probably further).
> 
> So can I assume the cache is stable @ 4.7GHz?
> 
> This would mean that the optimized sub-timings are not stable, even though GSAT ran for 1 hour without errors (and same temperatures as Karhu RAMTest).
> 
> So I guess I have to start over? Boy, overclocking RAM is truly a rabbit hole, but interesting none the less.


 you can assume the cache is stable at 4.7 with the ram at 3200... 

post up a snip showing voltages, dimm temps etc for 4133 right after it fails ramtest. not all cpus can handle ram the same.


----------



## SoldierRBT

jfriend00 said:


> Looks pretty good. VCCIO and VCCSA do look a bit high and lowering them can reduce temps on your CPU overclock, but what is needed can vary from one board to the next. What would be useful to see is your AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers. Then, we can see how your performance numbers look vs. others. Once you have stability at a frequency, you either decide whether you're going to try for a higher frequency or tighten secondary and tertiary timings to maximize performance at this frequency.


Hi, 

Couldn't lower VCCIO and VCCSA. 1.30v and 1.35v were the lowest values it needed to run 4266MHz CL18 for 1000% HCI Memtest. I went for 4133MHz CL17 instead and got good results with lower VCCIO and VCCSA. Here is the list of the settings I changed:
tCL 17
tRCD 17
tRP 17
tRAS 37
CR 2
tRFC 374
DRAM: 1.44v
CPU IO: 1.21v
CPU SA: 1.26v

I have attached a photo of AIDA64 benchmark. What values should I change to improve performance at this frequency?

Thank you


----------



## dNhax

Jpmboy said:


> you can assume the cache is stable at 4.7 with the ram at 3200...
> 
> post up a snip showing voltages, dimm temps etc for 4133 right after it fails ramtest. not all cpus can handle ram the same.


Thank you for your time and effort. You truly are a golden soul!

The test never ran this long before, it usually failed between 10 and 15 minutes. See attached image for HWiNFO readings.


----------



## spooklexity

jfriend00 said:


> It's been pretty much shown that tRAS = CAS+tRCD+tRTP is no longer true. tRAS values are often below that. Heck, my current sticks are XMP rated at [email protected] which would imply a tRTP of 3 which is simply not the case (I've optimized it down to a value of 6, but it defaulted to a value even higher).


That's not even remotely an extreme example, with only a Micron B-Die kit I am running 14-17-16-28, so tRTP = -3 :^)


----------



## jfriend00

Fissa said:


> Anybody on a Asus z390 maximus code\hero that populated 4 dimms that can share their settings? I'm having trouble on 4133mhz xmp


There are some settings screenshots for 4 DIMMS on z390 Asus in this thread. You'll just have to back through the last 3 months of posts to find it.


----------



## misoonigiri

jfriend00 said:


> It's been pretty much shown that tRAS = CAS+tRCD+tRTP is no longer true. tRAS values are often below that. Heck, my current sticks are XMP rated at [email protected] which would imply a tRTP of 3 which is simply not the case (I've optimized it down to a value of 6, but it defaulted to a value even higher).


https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-788.html#post27788846
or, https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...ability-thread-post27788846.html#post27788846

edit: alternate link


----------



## jfriend00

misoonigiri said:


> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-788.html#post27788846


I have no idea what you thought you were posting a link to. It doesn't take me to anything relevant to what you quoted. A little explanatory text and probably a more accurate link might help.


----------



## jfriend00

SoldierRBT said:


> Hi,
> 
> Couldn't lower VCCIO and VCCSA. 1.30v and 1.35v were the lowest values it needed to run 4266MHz CL18 for 1000% HCI Memtest. I went for 4133MHz CL17 instead and got good results with lower VCCIO and VCCSA. Here is the list of the settings I changed:
> tCL 17
> tRCD 17
> tRP 17
> tRAS 37
> CR 2
> tRFC 374
> DRAM: 1.44v
> CPU IO: 1.21v
> CPU SA: 1.26v
> 
> I have attached a photo of AIDA64 benchmark. What values should I change to improve performance at this frequency?
> 
> Thank you


Here's what I was able to do at 4133 with Samsung b-die at 1.50V (originally rated for [email protected]). VCCIO and VCCSA are at 1.22V.

FYI, this was only a teeny bit faster than what I could get at 4000 and soooo much harder to keep stable and required higher voltages for DRAM and VCCIO that I decided 4000 was better for me for 24/7 use.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Jpmboy said:


> I'm not sure what's going on there, but the w/c speeds are a bit off for 4133. There's a timing clash somewhere in there... here's a pretty routine 4000 on the same board with a 32GB 3600c16 kit. Granted I am using a 9700K (no HT) so if anything, the throughput should be slightly lower. I'm not sure which setting it is, but somethin' ain't right. (I ran the same clocks you show for core and cache - the W/C speeds in your post have been bugging me  )


Hi!
You probably wanted to address this message to Fraizer?) But that picture belongs to Fraizer, on which I indicated the values for correction) Sorry, but my English is very weak and I use a translator) Please clarify your comment)


----------



## Timur Born

Unfortunately I do not seem to be very proficient when it comes to achieving high memory overclocks with my TridentZ 3200-C14 2x8gb sticks. So I settled for 3500-C15-2T with reasonable tight timings and without having to go crazy with voltages.

Currently I am testing at: VCCIO 1.0v, VCCSA 1.05v, DDR 1.4v (should test lower) on an overclocked 9900K (GB Aorus Master). This tested stable using Karhu Ram Test. Read speed is around 54 gb/s, latency around 41 ns.


----------



## kignt

*4300 c19-20 2T*

4300 c19-20-20-39-2T, looks like xmp kit. Voltages at/near upper limits of daily recommended. Lowering vdimm or vccsa or vccio, even by just a notch, will cause eventual bsod or crash after loading into windows desktop or launching an app. Same with tFAW (but this won't pass testing). At edge of stability for my setup..

Hwinfo reads slightly higher voltages than what's entered in bios, seems to be an Asrock thing.


----------



## Jpmboy

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Hi!
> You probably wanted to address this message to Fraizer?) But that picture belongs to Fraizer, on which I indicated the values for correction) Sorry, but my English is very weak and I use a translator) Please clarify your comment)


sorry - if that is fraizer's aid64 snip, then ignore my post.


----------



## Fraizer

fly1ngh1gh said:


> *Fraizer*
> Hi
> To start, put the values tWRWR_dg 4, which is shown in the picture - it will raise you write/copy and continue to test)
> View attachment 252164
> 
> UP:
> Excuse me! Saw your other link with the correction of this value.


 @fly1ngh1gh

yes ^^ i set it to 4 now. before it was on auto in bios then now i fixed to 4.

Do you know what other value i can optimise ?




Jpmboy said:


> okay in bios - to start let's change
> 
> tWR to 18
> tRFC to 425 (you can try 374)
> tRTP to 8
> tFAW to 36 (we'll lower this once we see it RDD_s can be lower... later)
> 
> try these in sequence, save a asrock TC snip if each will boot and post back (i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol). Feel free to test stability "at your perference"
> run an AID64memory test to see if there is benefit. Honestly, for 24/7 4133c16 is pretty damn good!


 @Jpmboy

i said i make all the lines i marked on green and i make the stabilty test = sucess then i was asking what to do with the non green ? where you wrote :


_tFAW to 36....(we'll lower this once we see it RDD_s can be lower... later)

try these in sequence, save a asrock TC snip if each will boot and post back (i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol). Feel free to test stability "at your perference" 
run an AID64memory test to see if there is benefit. Honestly, for 24/7 4133c16 is pretty damn good![/quote]_

to finish what we start to say we get an perfect 4133Mhz timing optimisation 

here is the test you ask me to do for each timing (hope i understand what you asked me) : https://www.overclock.net/forum/27832998-post8125.html


----------



## Fissa

Finally stable did 700% hci memtest


----------



## jfriend00

Fissa said:


> Finally stable did 700% hci memtest


Congrats on getting 4133 with 4x8. Can you show the AIDA64 memory benchmark screen shot for those timings and can you tell us what memory sticks they were?


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Fraizer said:


> Do you know what other value i can optimise ?


I would optimize Trefi by the formula
Trefi - 4133Mhz/2*7.8*2 or 3=
1.32237
2.48356


----------



## chibi

jfriend00 said:


> It's been pretty much shown that tRAS = CAS+tRCD+tRTP is no longer true. tRAS values are often below that. Heck, my current sticks are XMP rated at [email protected] which would imply a tRTP of 3 which is simply not the case (I've optimized it down to a value of 6, but it defaulted to a value even higher).



I've read that tRAS value can be +/- 2 and if way out of wack, your mobo should know to override to a reasonable number. In my opinion, I would rather follow the book and play by the rules to avoid system instability. Once at a certain overclock, all this becomes placebo and I wouldn't know the difference between 4000 vs 4400 without the help of benchmarks. 



jfriend00 said:


> I have no idea what you thought you were posting a link to. It doesn't take me to anything relevant to what you quoted. A little explanatory text and probably a more accurate link might help.




sdch was referring to his post summarizing Raja's explanation for tRAS: https://www.overclock.net/forum/27788846-post7880.html



Timur Born said:


> But then your own tRAS should be at 40 instead of 38 according to the formula given by you?



My bad, I was looking at the wrong value. I'll have to double check my bios settings tonight.


----------



## Intrud3r

Anybody got some tips or stuff that needs changing ? Pretty please with a cherry on top.

Overclocking my TridentZ 4x8GB memory got me running with these settings:

Original:
3200Mhz C16-18-18-38-560-2T 1.35V

Overclocked:
3600Mhz C16-19-19-52-630-2T 1.4V

C16-18-18 @3600 BSOD's @1.45V
C17-18-18 @3600 BSOD's @1.45V
C17-19-19 @3700 @1.45V not stable, boots into windows no prob.

3600Mhz C16-19-19-52-630-2T 1.4V seems stable.


----------



## Fraizer

fly1ngh1gh said:


> I would optimize Trefi by the formula
> Trefi - 4133Mhz/2*7.8*2 or 3=
> 1.32237
> 2.48356


thank you man.

can you pelase tell me what value i have to put ? the number 1 ? or the 2 ? or is to test them both and choose the one with best bench ? 

what you think about what Raja said for the tREFI ? : https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?32105-How-to-Calculate-tREFI


----------



## jfriend00

fly1ngh1gh said:


> I would optimize Trefi by the formula
> Trefi - 4133Mhz/2*7.8*2 or 3=
> 1.32237
> 2.48356


tREFI is the interval between refreshes of each row of memory capacitors. What value it needs depends upon a bunch of factors, which include the specific silicon design of the memory chip, the density of the cells on the chip, the DRAM voltage, the temperature of the chip (affects leakage current), etc... There might be a formula that works for one specific chip design, one specific voltage and one specific temperature, but there is no such thing as a formula that is correct for all DDR4 DIMMs out there.

What I did for that setting was find out exactly what kind of memory chips I have (which happen to be Samsung B-die) and then find recent timings posted on this site for other people running Samsung B-die at the speeds I'm testing at and then see the range of their numbers when they seem to credibly represent that their settings are stable. That should give you a range of values you can shoot for. As Raja's comments in the reference below mention (and my own testing verifies this), there's a noticeable difference in performance when lowering tRFC (a related setting), but once you're tREFI value is above 20000 or so (at speeds around 4000MHz), it's hard to measure an increase in performance from raising it even higher. I don't know if this is because the BIOS or IMC is overriding a higher value and ignoring what you set or it simply just doesn't help beyond a certain value. For that reason, I did not push my value higher than that, even though it seems to still be stable. I figure there's no reasons to push settings closer to the cliff if they don't benefit performance - better to stay in a known safe area.

You can see RAJA's comments in this thread about tREFI (though they are from 2013).

If anyone wants to read a more technical discussion of tREFI, you can jump to page 5 of this document DRAM Refresh Mechanisms, Penalties, and Trade-Offs and find all sorts of technical detail.


----------



## Fraizer

jfriend00 said:


> tREFI is the interval between refreshes of each row of memory capacitors. What value it needs depends upon a bunch of factors, which include the specific silicon design of the memory chip, the density of the cells on the chip, the DRAM voltage, the temperature of the chip (affects leakage current), etc... There might be a formula that works for one specific chip design, one specific voltage and one specific temperature, but there is no such thing as a formula that is correct for all DDR4 DIMMs out there.
> 
> What I did for that setting was find out exactly what kind of memory chips I have (which happen to be Samsung B-die) and then find recent timings posted on this site for other people running Samsung B-die at the speeds I'm testing at and then see the range of their numbers when they seem to credibly represent that their settings are stable. That should give you a range of values you can shoot for. As Raja's comments in the reference below mention (and my own testing verifies this), there's a noticeable difference in performance when lowering tRFC (a related setting), but once you're tREFI value is above 20000 or so (at speeds around 4000MHz), it's hard to measure an increase in performance from raising it even higher. I don't know if this is because the BIOS or IMC is overriding a higher value and ignoring what you set or it simply just doesn't help beyond a certain value. For that reason, I did not push my value higher than that, even though it seems to still be stable. I figure there's no reasons to push settings closer to the cliff if they don't benefit performance - better to stay in a known safe area.
> 
> You can see RAJA's comments in this thread about tREFI (though they are from 2013).
> 
> If anyone wants to read a more technical discussion of tREFI, you can jump to page 5 of this document DRAM Refresh Mechanisms, Penalties, and Trade-Offs and find all sorts of technical detail.


Yes is the link i post in my answer


----------



## Fraizer

fly1ngh1gh said:


> I would optimize Trefi by the formula
> Trefi - 4133Mhz/2*7.8*2 or 3=
> 1.32237
> 2.48356



hi again

i make 3 test on both but i dont relay know which on is better... the bench change the value fo each different test... but look the 48356 is i think little better... but dont realy sure because after each restart the difference is more or less similar.

i need to do an stability test too for those settings ?

if every things is fine regarding my bench and data (picture) at tREFI = 48356. is other optimisations i can make ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Intrud3r said:


> Anybody got some tips or stuff that needs changing ? Pretty please with a cherry on top.
> 
> Overclocking my TridentZ 4x8GB memory got me running with these settings:
> 
> Original:
> 3200Mhz C16-18-18-38-560-2T 1.35V
> 
> Overclocked:
> 3600Mhz C16-19-19-52-630-2T 1.4V
> 
> C16-18-18 @3600 BSOD's @1.45V
> C17-18-18 @3600 BSOD's @1.45V
> C17-19-19 @3700 @1.45V not stable, boots into windows no prob.
> 
> 3600Mhz C16-19-19-52-630-2T 1.4V seems stable.


you've done well with that hynix A-die. If you are simply looking for higher frequency... it may be an up-hill roll. That die usually does not scale well with voltage, but for 3700 you may need to push higher that 1.45V.


Fraizer said:


> Yes is the link i post in my answer


if you use "suspend to ram" or sleep, very long tREFI can be a problem. You can pretty much set it a 2x the value Auto sets and do well.


----------



## Fraizer

Jpmboy said:


> you've done well with that hynix A-die. If you are simply looking for higher frequency... it may be an up-hill roll. That die usually does not scale well with voltage, but for 3700 you may need to push higher that 1.45V.
> 
> if you use "suspend to ram" or sleep, very long tREFI can be a problem. You can pretty much set it a 2x the value Auto sets and do well.



what is the "suspend to ram" or sleep ? i dont know if i use that. (c-states on cpu option is disable, in windows 10 energy performence, no any energy saving under windows 10)

then my auto value is 16150 x2 then = tREFI 32300 right ? if i am not wrong is not far of the formula of fly1ngh1gh tRefi x2 = 32237 (or in x3= 48356)


----------



## Jpmboy

Fraizer said:


> what is the "suspend to ram" or sleep ? i dont know if i use that. (c-states on cpu option is disable, in windows 10 energy performence, no any energy saving under windows 10)
> 
> then my auto value is 16150 x2 then = tREFI 32300 right ? if i am not wrong is not far of the formula of fly1ngh1gh tRefi x2 = 32237 (or in x3= 48356)


Sleep? It's in you windows menu. yeah, 32XXX is fine. :thumb:


----------



## Fraizer

good 

is other optimisation i can do ?

you told me few days ago : "tFAW to 36 (we'll lower this once we see it RDD_s can be lower... later)" you told me too : "(i need to see th eeffect on rtl/iol)"

if i can optimise more my morry please let me know


----------



## Falkentyne

jfriend00 said:


> OK, then it would be more useful to tell us how you proved stability rather than show us a 1000% RAMTest screenshot or the other 8 minute test. That's all I'm trying to indicate here. Multiple times you've posted a screenshot of a short memory test implying that it proves stability when it doesn't. If you want to convey that you've proven stability, then please actually share enough for us to know what you did or don't include the short test screenshot at all. I'm done on this topic.


What is the 'universal' standard for what is stable or not anyway?
Obsessive drive for stability can get absurd.
What if he is stable in EVERY program and application he uses, never gets "bit corruption" or errors or BSOD in games, never any random errors, but only gets an error at 4000% coverage? Does that mean he's not stable, just because some program winds up heating up the RAM/IMC/chipset to a point where the signal degrades?
That's like saying "well, my CPU never crashes at 65C but starts crashing at 75C, therefore it must be unstable (OCD), so therefore I'll make sure I heat it to 99C and make sure there are no errors at those temps, ever.
What if you improve the cooling so it never reaches 75C? Are you then unstable just because you have a temperature limit?

The only time 'stability' has to be proven is some sort of semi-official club to show off the result of stress tests.


----------



## jfriend00

Falkentyne said:


> What is the 'universal' standard for what is stable or not anyway?
> Obsessive drive for stability can get absurd.
> What if he is stable in EVERY program and application he uses, never gets "bit corruption" or errors or BSOD in games, never any random errors, but only gets an error at 4000% coverage? Does that mean he's not stable, just because some program winds up heating up the RAM/IMC/chipset to a point where the signal degrades?
> That's like saying "well, my CPU never crashes at 65C but starts crashing at 75C, therefore it must be unstable (OCD), so therefore I'll make sure I heat it to 99C and make sure there are no errors at those temps, ever.
> What if you improve the cooling so it never reaches 75C? Are you then unstable just because you have a temperature limit?
> 
> The only time 'stability' has to be proven is some sort of semi-official club to show off the result of stress tests.


Well, my understanding of the point of sharing results here (both timing values and AIDA64 performance numbers) is so that people can learn from them and perhaps use some of that info to their own benefit. That information is not very useful without some shared level of understanding of stability. I originally made a query about stability testing when the poster provided a screenshot of an 8 minute memory stability test apparently as evidence that it was stable. I know from my memory tuning and testing that I've never seen any memory test that proves stability (by pretty much anyone's definition) in 8 minutes. So, I questioned whether adequate stability testing had been done in order to find the results useful or not.

How much testing is enough? There is no absolute answer to this question. It's the same issue as CPU overclock stability. Decide what process you want to follow. Some follow a process whereby they figure that if a very strict torture test says their system is stable, then it should be more than good for any app they run. Others figure that if they just run all their apps and don't have any problems they're good.

I actually think that CPU stability is a little easier to understand than memory stability because you really have no idea what program you're going to run that has some tiny little feature that uses memory in some way that no other program you have might. And, data corruption may not even be immediately obvious. If you're gaming, then fine. If your gaming experience is fine, then you don't really care about anything else even if some bits might have gotten corrupted somewhere. But, if you're doing scientific work or you're an avid photographer or any of the hundreds of other applications where you don't want your data getting corrupted, then this matters to you. 

And, since I absolutely HATE ever having my computer crash or my data corrupted, I choose to follow one of the more stringent techniques to get a higher probability guarantee that my system will be stable no matter what I throw at it. Your mileage may vary. Keep in mind that data corruption caused by lost bits of memory can be a hidden failure. You may not even know it happened until sometime later, perhaps even after your original backups have been replaced by more recent backups and it could lead to a significant failure.

So, when I'm reading what other people have done with their memory overclock or what settings they've selected that I might want to compare to, I'm only really interested if they've done a pretty rigorous stability test on it that would meet my personal standard (again, you make your own) because I've gotten much, much faster performance numbers with my memory tuning on settings that simply aren't stable when tested beyond 1000% in RAMTest. So, since that level of stability isn't interesting to me, that means settings that have only been tested that much aren't proven enough for me to be interested in. Everyone is free to make their own choices here.

As for RAMTest in particular, the author publishes a specific probability table based on how much you've tested it. By their table, 1000% would only be a confidence of 92%. Now, they don't say where those numbers come from, but if that's anywhere near accurate, that's not enough for me. You decide if that's good enough for you.










I've found in my own testing with RAMTest that if it gets past 4000%, it has always (for me) made it to 30,000% when I run the test overnight (though some others report failures beyond 4000%). So, for my memory tuning, I'm good with making a change, testing it to 4000% and then moving onto the next change I want to make and I then follow it up with an overnight test to 20000-30000% at my next opportunity. That's my personal process and what I find useful. I learned the hard way that moving through too many steps with memory tuning before you've really proven you're stable just leads to a situation in the future where you discover you're suddenly not stable and you don't really know which change caused it and you essentially have to backtrack hours or days worth of settings and start over, testing more rigorously as you go.

FYI, if you really study and learn what the dozens of memory timings actually mean, it gives you an appreciation for the kinds of issues that there can be with all sorts of different memory access sequences and has built my appreciation for how long testing with a good tool that attempts to cover all these possible types of access sequences is probably a good thing.

Here's a few of the timing descriptions to give you a flavor:

*CAS Latency (tCL/tCAS):* The number of cycles between sending a column address to the memory and the beginning of the data in response. This is the number of cycles it takes to read the first bit of memory from a DRAM with the correct row already open. Unlike the other numbers, this is not a maximum, but an exact number that must be agreed on between the memory controller and the memory.

*RAS to CAS Delay (tRCD):* The minimum number of clock cycles required between opening a row of memory and accessing columns within it. The time to read the first bit of memory from a DRAM without an active row is tRCD + CL.

RAS to CAS is one potential delay to read/writes. tRCD is the number of clock cycles it takes to open a row and access a column. If a request for data is made when there are no rows open, referred to as “page miss,” it will take at least tRCD + CL clock cycles for the CPU to receive the first bit of data in response.

*Row Precharge Time (tRP):* The minimum number of clock cycles required between issuing the precharge command and opening the next row. The time to read the first bit of memory from a DRAM with the wrong row open is tRP + tRCD + CL.

If the wrong row is open (“page miss”), it needs to be closed (precharged), then the next needs to be opened, then the column within the row needs to be accessed. This therefore takes tRP + tRCD + CL time.

*Row Active Time (tRAS):* The minimum number of clock cycles required between a row active command and issuing the precharge command. This is the time needed to internally refresh the row, and overlaps with tRCD. 

*DRAM Write Recovery Time (tWR):* Defines the number of clock cycles that must elapse between a memory write operation and a precharge command. This allows the write to settle in the row preamps before charging it back to the actual memory cells with a precharge. It's a delay between writing to the row and closing it.

*DRAM RAS to RAS Delay (tRRD)*: (activate to activate delay). Specifies the number of DRAM clock cycles between consecutive Activate (ACT) commands to different banks of memory on the same physical rank. This is about limiting total current draw in a short period of time in a specific chip to an acceptable amount. It essentially slows down how quickly you can active successive rows in the same chip.

*DRAM Read to Precharge Time (tRTP):* Specifies the spacing between the issuing of a read command and tRP (Precharge) when a read is followed by a page close request. The minimum possible spacing is limited by DDR3 burst length which is 4 DRAM clocks.

*DRAM Four Activate Window (tFAW):* This timing specifies the number of DRAM clocks that must elapse before more than four Activate commands can be sent to the same rank. The minimum spacing is tRRD*4.

As the effects of tFAW spacing are only realised after four Activates to the same DIMM, the overall performance impact of tFAW is not large, however, benchmarks like Super Pi 32m can benefit by setting tFAW to the minimum possible value. As with tRRD, setting tFAW below its lowest possible value will result in the memory controller reverting to the lowest possible value.

*DRAM Write to Read Delay (tWTR):* Sets the number of DRAM clocks to wait before issuing a read command after a write command. As with tRTP this value may need to be increased according to memory density and memory frequency.

*tRRD_S:* When issuing consecutive ACTIVATE commands to banks of different bank groups, the ACTIVATE commands have to be separated by tRRD_S (row-to-row delay--short)

*tRRD_L:* When issuing consecutive ACTIVATE commands to same bank, the ACTIVATE commands have to be separated by tRRD_L (row-to-row delay--long)

*CAS Write Latency (tCWL):* CWL is column access time for write commands to the DIMMs. Typically, CWL is needs to be set at or +1 over the read CAS value. High performance DIMMs can run CWL equal to or up to 3 clocks below read CAS for benchmarking (within functional limits of the DIMMs and chipset).


----------



## Blotto80

I'm attempting to overclock my memory for the first time, I've always been content to set it at XMP and leave it. I started playing with RAM speeds and now I've got my Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200-16-18-18 (Samsung B-Die) at 4000-19-20-20. I know the timings are a bit loose but its the best I could get and get through 100% coverage on MemTest. I'm running a 9900k @ 5.0ghz @ 1.295v. VCCSA and VCCIO are set to Auto but they are reading higher than I'd think to manually set (VCCSA = 1.302, VCCIO = 1.269). VDIMM is set at 1.41. Can someone have a look at my timings and make any suggestions that might help with either lowering the primary timings or eeking some extra performance out of where they are now?


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ that may be a record for the longest post in this thread :blinksmil
Stability is only relevant in context of the intended use. Unless you thermally clamp the ram sticks, temperatures reached in a stability test are not reflective of all but the most specialized use scenario, and that alone can lead you right down the proverbial rabbit hole... which I think you have already found. 





Blotto80 said:


> I'm attempting to overclock my memory for the first time, I've always been content to set it at XMP and leave it. I started playing with RAM speeds and now I've got my Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200-16-18-18 (Samsung B-Die) at 4000-19-20-20. I know the timings are a bit loose but its the best I could get and get through 100% coverage on MemTest. I'm running a 9900k @ 5.0ghz @ 1.295v. VCCSA and VCCIO are set to Auto but they are reading higher than I'd think to manually set (VCCSA = 1.302, VCCIO = 1.269). VDIMM is set at 1.41. Can someone have a look at my timings and make any suggestions that might help with either lowering the primary timings or eeking some extra performance out of where they are now?


 I'd start by setting tWR to 18, tFAW to 28, then lower tRTP one step at a time until it fails to post or fails stability, then back off by 1. tRAS is a bit low as you have it, by the timings windows, it should be near 50... that is why I suggest lowering tRTP.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> Stability is only relevant in context of the intended use. Unless you thermally clamp the ram sticks, temperatures reached in a stability test are not reflective of all but the most specialized use scenario, and that alone can lead you right down the proverbial rabbit hole... which I think you have already found.


Well, it wasn't a simple topic and I included some reference material that I thought those in the thread might find interesting. Sorry for trying to share useful information. If one doesn't have any understanding of all these memory timings, then it's hard to appreciate why one pass over your memory isn't enough to prove each cell can read and write.

So, to diss my thoughts about rigorous testing, you basically say that no testing is really all that useful because none of it directly simulates your real world use. How helpful is that to anyone here. To move forward in the world of memory tuning, one has to decide what tests are a meaningful measure. If you don't think mine are useful, then tell me what yours are. Just dissing what others are doing and not offering a constructive alternative with explanation contributes nothing useful here.

FYI, I'm not in the rabbit hole at all. I found a good performing memory configuration that tests as stable using any memory test tool I could find and has given me no troubles in two weeks of running with it. It did take me awhile to get there because I was trying to do lots of optimizations (such is the world of pushing memory timings).


----------



## Jpmboy

wasn't "dissing" anything. Just adding some perspective. I "posit" that stability is simply relative, and that asserting standards or criteria for labeling stability is then also relative... not absolute. Of course your post(s) are appreciated.

lol- if you have not been in the rabbit hole and climbed back out, you can't really _know _ram.


----------



## Blotto80

Jpmboy said:


> I'd start by setting tWR to 18, tFAW to 28, then lower tRTP one step at a time until it fails to post or fails stability, then back off by 1. tRAS is a bit low as you have it, by the timings windows, it should be near 50... that is why I suggest lowering tRTP.


I've made some changes and have it running MemTestPro right now. Benches were a touch better in AIDA64 as well. Thanks.


----------



## Jpmboy

Blotto80 said:


> I've made some changes and have it running MemTestPro right now. Benches were a touch better in AIDA64 as well. Thanks.


 with that tRTP you could take tRAS down to 46 or 48. 
For 16GB sticks, that's looking real promising.


----------



## aerotracks

i7-7820X + 4x8GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 4133C19 @ DDR4-4200 17-19-17-37-370 1T
VDIMM 1.400V / SA 0.800V / IO 1.250V
No cooling on memory


----------



## SoldierRBT

Tried to run 4500MHz CL18 with 1.456v for fun and it actually booted. Took a screenshot of AIDA Benchmark. 4600MHz failed to post and 4533MHz was insta BSOD entering Windows.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Fraizer said:


> thank you man.
> 
> can you pelase tell me what value i have to put ? the number 1 ? or the 2 ? or is to test them both and choose the one with best bench ?


The option that will be the best) I read an article where a group of scientists did testing on this formula, but unfortunately I can not find it yet(
I myself do not like to use any formulas, the more they do not always work, as practice shows)


Fraizer said:


> what you think about what Raja said for the tREFI ? : https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?32105-How-to-Calculate-tREFI


I think this is the same article, but I read on another site. And if you follow the temperature the number can be multiplied by 2-3).
As for me, this is the most excellent formula, with a good range for setting values)


----------



## Martin778

I ran 4800MHz CL18-22-22 @ 1.50V and 1.3 on IO/SA but the secundary timings were weak so in the end it was no better than 4133 C17.
The 4600MHz CL18 XMP Profile is simply put, rubbish.


----------



## owikh84

DDR4-4700 CL19-22-22-42-2T @ 1.50v
VCCSA: 1.55v VCCIO: 1.375v

9900K @ stock
Maximus XI Gene
TridentZ RGB 4266C19 2x8GB
Custom WC


----------



## Martin778

owikh84 said:


> DDR4-4700 CL19-22-22-42-2T @ 1.50v
> *VCCSA: 1.55v VCCIO: 1.375v*
> 
> 9900K @ stock
> Maximus XI Gene
> TridentZ RGB 4266C19 2x8GB
> Custom WC


No way it needs that much. That IMC will be in heaven soon 
I can run 4600 @ 1.31-1.32V on the IO and SA but I prefer not to since the results are garbage even with tweaked secondary timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

dNhax said:


> Thank you for your time and effort. You truly are a golden soul!
> 
> The test never ran this long before, it usually failed between 10 and 15 minutes. See attached image for HWiNFO readings.


try 17-18-18... with the same voltages. :thumb:


----------



## aerotracks

Martin778 said:


> I can run 4600 @ 1.31-1.32V on the IO and SA but I prefer not to since the results are garbage even with tweaked secondary timings.


Here is an old DDR4-4600 result of mine that is not garbage 
Maybe this helps


----------



## Fraizer

fly1ngh1gh said:


> The option that will be the best) I read an article where a group of scientists did testing on this formula, but unfortunately I can not find it yet(
> I myself do not like to use any formulas, the more they do not always work, as practice shows)
> 
> I think this is the same article, but I read on another site. And if you follow the temperature the number can be multiplied by 2-3).
> As for me, this is the most excellent formula, with a good range for setting values)


thank you man 
@fly1ngh1gh do you see other optimisations i can do please ?


----------



## dNhax

Jpmboy said:


> try 17-18-18... with the same voltages. :thumb:


 @Jpmboy used godlike knowledge, it's very effective!

I changed tRCD (and thus tRP) to 18, RAMTest went straight to 2799%. Any ideas what I can improve now?


----------



## Martin778

aerotracks said:


> Martin778 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can run 4600 @ 1.31-1.32V on the IO and SA but I prefer not to since the results are garbage even with tweaked secondary timings.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an old DDR4-4600 result of mine that is not garbage /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif
> Maybe this helps /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

BSOD 😛 Probably needs the secondary timings to work.


----------



## Jpmboy

dNhax said:


> @*Jpmboy* used godlike knowledge, it's very effective!
> 
> I changed tRCD (and thus tRP) to 18, RAMTest went straight to 2799%. Any ideas what I can improve now?


lol - any ideas on what you want to improve now?


----------



## dNhax

Jpmboy said:


> lol - any ideas on what you want to improve now?


I assume all sub-timings are okay now performance wise. I probably want to get rid of this error.. or is it "safe" to ignore at this point? If yes, then I'm probably done for this CPU generation.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Fraizer said:


> thank you man
> do you see other optimisations i can do please ?


Everything is quite individual on each system, so it is difficult to tell(. I think time and practice will show the best option timings


----------



## Jpmboy

dNhax said:


> I assume all sub-timings are okay now performance wise. I probably want to get rid of this error.. or is it "safe" to ignore at this point? If yes, then I'm probably done for this CPU generation.


Try using GSAT for memory errors. that error in ramtest may be a mis-compare on the cpu- type and not a ram fault.


----------



## dNhax

Jpmboy said:


> Try using GSAT for memory errors. that error in ramtest may be a mis-compare on the cpu- type and not a ram fault.


I'm confused.. :-/
GSAT already ran for 1 hour with 17-17-17-37, but Karhu RAMTest failed quickly. Now 17-18-18-37 runs quite long with Karhu but still with errors.. I suppose GSAT will pass an 1 hour test. I will test GSAT again with 17-18-18-37 after work and report back.

Maybe I should start from scratch.. load defaults and then overclock the RAM first, then the CPU.


----------



## mouacyk

dNhax said:


> I'm confused.. :-/
> GSAT already ran for 1 hour with 17-17-17-37, but Karhu RAMTest failed quickly. Now 17-18-18-37 runs quite long with Karhu but still with errors.. I suppose GSAT will pass an 1 hour test. I will test GSAT again with 17-18-18-37 after work and report back.
> 
> Maybe I should start from scratch.. load defaults and then overclock the RAM first, then the CPU.


If GSAT passes properly for 1-2 hours, then it's likely your CPU/cache clocks not being stable. I think it's general expectation to stabilize CPU/cache first (whether stock or oc), before overclocking RAM, so issues can be kept isolated.


----------



## Fissa

mouacyk said:


> If GSAT passes properly for 1-2 hours, then it's likely your CPU/cache clocks not being stable. I think it's general expectation to stabilize CPU/cache first (whether stock or oc), before overclocking RAM, so issues can be kept isolated.


Yeh I passed GSAT but was still getting random BSODS and was still trying to find the problem in RAM timings. But the problem was with CPU overclock.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

I do not know if it's possible to answer this kind of question, 

But between these kits
G.Skill 4000 C17 1.35v and G.Skill 4600 C18 1.45v

What would be the best to have 4000 C17 while having a margin to increase in frequency on a next configuration

Clearly, if I can do 4600 C18 at 1.45v with the kit 4000 C17 and have 4000 C17 at 1.35v with the kit 4600 C18 ?
If the OC will be "about the same" or if one kit is better than the other

Thanks for your help


----------



## Telstar

They will probably reach the same speeds/timings. Get the cheaper one.


----------



## dNhax

mouacyk said:


> If GSAT passes properly for 1-2 hours, then it's likely your CPU/cache clocks not being stable. I think it's general expectation to stabilize CPU/cache first (whether stock or oc), before overclocking RAM, so issues can be kept isolated.





Fissa said:


> Yeh I passed GSAT but was still getting random BSODS and was still trying to find the problem in RAM timings. But the problem was with CPU overclock.


Welp.. GSAT passed with 17-18-18-37 (as well as 17-17-17-37 before) for 1 hour. So let's assume for now that the RAM is stable.. 

I tested the overclock of my CPU with Prime95 with AVX disabled and RAM clocked at 3200-14-14-14-34. Is it possible that RAMTest is failing due to the use of AVX? And the tighter the timings (17-17-17-37 vs 17-18-18-37) the earlier it failed?


----------



## jfriend00

dNhax said:


> Welp.. GSAT passed with 17-18-18-37 (as well as 17-17-17-37 before) for 1 hour. So let's assume for now that the RAM is stable..
> 
> I tested the overclock of my CPU with Prime95 with AVX disabled and RAM clocked at 3200-14-14-14-34. Is it possible that RAMTest is failing due to the use of AVX? And the tighter the timings (17-17-17-37 vs 17-18-18-37) the earlier it failed?


RAMTest does use AVX instructions, but it's hard to know if that's the cause. Why don't you test using Prime95 with AVX to rule that out?


----------



## Jpmboy

dNhax said:


> Welp.. GSAT passed with 17-18-18-37 (as well as 17-17-17-37 before) for 1 hour. So let's assume for now that the RAM is stable..
> 
> I tested the overclock of my CPU with Prime95 with AVX disabled and RAM clocked at 3200-14-14-14-34. Is it possible that RAMTest is failing due to the use of AVX? And the tighter the timings (17-17-17-37 vs 17-18-18-37) the earlier it failed?


if the cpu passed p95 without avx and a lower ram freq, either lower the cache freq when using a higher ram freq, or increase vcache (vcore on 1151 systems).


----------



## pantsaregood

Are there any obvious signs that tREFI is causing issues? I'm getting random BSODs every week or two and they're always different. Karhu RAM Test passed at something absurd like 45000% and HCI MemTest passed 8000%.

I recall reading somewhere (though I don't know why it would be the case) that memory testing generally can't identify tREFI being too high. Are BSODs a common result of this?


----------



## Jpmboy

pantsaregood said:


> Are there any obvious signs that tREFI is causing issues? I'm getting random BSODs every week or two and they're always different. Karhu RAM Test passed at something absurd like 45000% and HCI MemTest passed 8000%.
> 
> I recall reading somewhere (though I don't know why it would be the case) that memory testing generally can't identify tREFI being too high. Are BSODs a common result of this?


uhh... how high of a tREFI are we talking about?


----------



## mouacyk

pantsaregood said:


> Are there any obvious signs that tREFI is causing issues? I'm getting random BSODs every week or two and they're always different. Karhu RAM Test passed at something absurd like 45000% and HCI MemTest passed 8000%.
> 
> I recall reading somewhere (though I don't know why it would be the case) that memory testing generally can't identify tREFI being too high. Are BSODs a common result of this?


And what is tRFC at?


----------



## jfriend00

pantsaregood said:


> Are there any obvious signs that tREFI is causing issues? I'm getting random BSODs every week or two and they're always different. Karhu RAM Test passed at something absurd like 45000% and HCI MemTest passed 8000%.
> 
> I recall reading somewhere (though I don't know why it would be the case) that memory testing generally can't identify tREFI being too high. Are BSODs a common result of this?


If you can't suspect any other cause than tREFI, then lower tREFI to 15000 and run with that for awhile and see if it makes a difference. I wouldn't think a BSOD would be the most common outcome for tREFI being too high, but it could happen.

I don't know if RAMTest specifically tests for tREFI issues or not. tREFI controls the time interval between refreshes of a row. If the refreshes are too far apart, then too much charge can leak off a memory capacitor and what was supposed to be a 1 can fall below the voltage threshold for a 1 and then be interpreted as a 0, essentially losing a bit. That is more likely to just cause data corruption, but if it happens in the wrong place (like in a piece of RAM holding a memory pointer variable), it can cause a BSOD too.

tREFI is related to tRFC. tRFC is the length of time to do the refresh (the amount of time to recharge the memory capacitors in a row). So, tRFC is how long a refresh takes and tREFI is how often to do them.

The values for both tREFI and tRFC can be affected by operating temperature (because leakage current increases at higher temperatures) and is certainly a function of memory chip architecture (so only directly comparable between same types of memory chips) and may also be affected by the DRAM voltage.

For reference, tRFC has a very noticeable impact on AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers, but for Samsung B-die, once you've lowered tRFC down below 350 and proven stability there, it doesn't appear that raising tREFI above 25000 makes much of a difference in the benchmark numbers at all. Not knowing exactly how to test tREFI values, I just decided there was no need to push my tREFI numbers beyond 25000 and I've been running my Samsung b-die there for a month with no issues (at DRAM voltage 1.45V).


----------



## FeDoK

Hello.
I'm fairly new to memory overclocking and I'm struggling to understand what is holding me from achieving lower clocks\higher frequency. I'm running an 8700k at 5.0\4.7 cache at 1.29v on MXH with Corsair CMR16GX4M2F4000C19 kit. Currently I have my ram at 4000 17-18-18-38-2N-420 at 1.38v DRAM and 1.2v IO\SA. Sometimes my system won't post with an AF code but it doesn't happen that often. However if I try to push for 4133 with any combination of clocks\voltages (I've tried 1.5v DRAM and 1.3v IO\SA) I would get an AF on post like 4\5 times and 4266 won't post at all with either AF or D5 codes. Also I can't get my timings any tighter at 4000, HCI won't pass with 17-17-17-37 no matter how high my voltages are, I even tried bumping my Vcore to 1.35v which didn't help either. Is there something I can still try to lower my timings or my IMC is just not that great?


----------



## dNhax

jfriend00 said:


> RAMTest does use AVX instructions, but it's hard to know if that's the cause. Why don't you test using Prime95 with AVX to rule that out?





Jpmboy said:


> if the cpu passed p95 without avx and a lower ram freq, either lower the cache freq when using a higher ram freq, or increase vcache (vcore on 1151 systems).


 @jfriend00 I don't want to burn a hole into my CPU.  But I guess I have to try..
@Jpmboy Tested already with Cache @ 4.3GHz.. still errors in Karhu RAMTest. :-/


----------



## jfriend00

dNhax said:


> @jfriend00 I don't want to burn a hole into my CPU.  But I guess I have to try..


Just monitor the temps while running the test. If the temps are too high, then increase the AVX offset so it won't run AVX instructions as fast. Or, even better, find lower voltages for your CPU and for VCCIO and VCCSA that are stable and that will reduce temperatures too.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> If you can't suspect any other cause than tREFI, then lower tREFI to 15000 and run with that for awhile and see if it makes a difference. I wouldn't think a BSOD would be the most common outcome for tREFI being too high, but it could happen.
> 
> I don't know if RAMTest specifically tests for tREFI issues or not. tREFI controls the time interval between refreshes of a row. If the refreshes are too far apart, then too much charge can leak off a memory capacitor and what was supposed to be a 1 can fall below the voltage threshold for a 1 and then be interpreted as a 0, essentially losing a bit. That is more likely to just cause data corruption, but if it happens in the wrong place (like in a piece of RAM holding a memory pointer variable), it can cause a BSOD too.
> 
> tREFI is related to tRFC. tRFC is the length of time to do the refresh (the amount of time to recharge the memory capacitors in a row). So, tRFC is how long a refresh takes and tREFI is how often to do them.
> 
> The values for both tREFI and tRFC can be affected by operating temperature (because leakage current increases at higher temperatures) and is certainly a function of memory chip architecture (so only directly comparable between same types of memory chips) and may also be affected by the DRAM voltage.
> 
> For reference, tRFC has a very noticeable impact on AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers, but for Samsung B-die, once you've lowered tRFC down below 350 and proven stability there, it doesn't appear that raising tREFI above 25000 makes much of a difference in the benchmark numbers at all. * Not knowing exactly how to test tREFI values,* I just decided there was no need to push my tREFI numbers beyond 25000 and I've been running my Samsung b-die there for a month with no issues (at DRAM voltage 1.45V).


This is the issue. There's been some chatter in the past that using increasingly longer episodes of "suspend to ram" with a ram disk enabled may find a problem with long tREFI, but that may take quite a while to ferret out.


----------



## Fraizer

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Everything is quite individual on each system, so it is difficult to tell(. I think time and practice will show the best option timings


i understand but i mean on what timing i have to play/reduce ? or is more or less the limit of gain i can have ?


----------



## Fraizer

how i can reduce my VCCIO and VSA after finishing to optimise memory ? for test it is on both at 1.2500v. the cpu 9900k is oc at 5.3Ghz @1.315v

is here an logique to reduce those 2 voltages ?

to increase the cpu those 2 voltages play on the stability of the cpu cache ?


----------



## jfriend00

Fraizer said:


> how i can reduce my VCCIO and VSA after finishing to optimise memory ? for test it is on both at 1.2500v. the cpu 9900k is oc at 5.3Ghz @1.315v
> 
> is here an logique to reduce those 2 voltages ?
> 
> to increase the cpu those 2 voltages play on the stability of the cpu cache ?


There's no magic method to reducing VCCIO and VCCSA. You just reduce them and then test both CPU overclock and memory stability again. There seems to be a general sense that VCCSA sometimes wants to be slightly higher than VCCIO (like 0.02V), but the two should not be far apart in voltage. 

If stable, reduce some more. VCCIO powers the IMC (integrated memory controller in the CPU). VCCSA powers the CPU cache (among other things). For reference, I'm running a i7-9700k (pretty similar chip to your 9900k) at 5.1GHz and my DRAM at 4000MHz with VCCIO and VCCSA at 1.20V. The benefit to reducing these is that it reduces the heat load in the CPU which results in lower CPU temperatures.

Your current voltages are acceptable so the motivation for lowering them would be to reduce CPU temperatures. So, it's up to you if that is worth tweaking and testing to see if lower voltages will work.


----------



## kignt

I had this weird issue that resolved itself, sort of...

I dialed back settings to what worked before. Everything looked correct. I also chose to use more conservative value for REFI, like 15000. Then attempted testing with just Karhu. Couldn't get past 10-30min, consistently gets an error. Adjusted and loosened about every secondary, but kept tertiary. Until finally, tried maxed REFI again. The system tried to post, but self-restarted, it seemed different than usual. Now it's passing Karhu's beyond 30min. Seems to have fixed itself. 

I tried switching around bios profiles too, but no luck. So maybe try POST-ing with high and low REFI values, before giving up on an oc.


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> I had this weird issue that resolved itself, sort of...
> 
> I dialed back settings to what worked before. Everything looked correct. I also chose to use more conservative value for REFI, like 15000. Then attempted testing with just Karhu. Couldn't get past 10-30min, consistently gets an error. Adjusted and loosened about every secondary, but kept tertiary. Until finally, tried maxed REFI again. The system tried to post, but self-restarted, it seemed different than usual. Now it's passing Karhu's beyond 30min. Seems to have fixed itself.
> 
> I tried switching around bios profiles too, but no luck. So maybe try POST-ing with high and low REFI values, before giving up on an oc.


This may be because the memory training your BIOS did after making the tREFI change (what values it selected that you haven't explicitly specified) was different than before. I can generate a more consistent training whenever this happens by switching back to all defaults at 2133MHz (JEDEC std), booting at that, then respecifying the settings I had before and restarting. This will cause a complete retraining from scratch with no values remembered from previous runs. Sometimes if you make several small successive changes in timings, it keeps the previous trainings when they are no longer really ideal, but work enough to boot. Booting at 2133MHz and all defaults and then going back to your overclocked frequency and settings causes all training to start over, nothing remembered from before.

The more memory timing values you lock down with good values and the fewer you leave for automatic management by the motherboard, the less likely this is to happen because it won't have as many values to try to guess for you.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> This may be because the memory training your BIOS did after making the tREFI change (what values it selected that you haven't explicitly specified) was different than before. I can generate a more consistent training whenever this happens by switching back to all defaults at 2133MHz (JEDEC std), booting at that, then respecifying the settings I had before and restarting. This will cause a complete retraining from scratch with no values remembered from previous runs. Sometimes if you make several small successive changes in timings, it keeps the previous trainings when they are no longer really ideal, but work enough to boot. Booting at 2133MHz and all defaults and then going back to your overclocked frequency and settings causes all training to start over, nothing remembered from before.
> 
> The more memory timing values you lock down with good values and the fewer you leave for automatic management by the motherboard, the less likely this is to happen because it won't have as many values to try to guess for you.


If I'm not mistaken, using memokay (asus) or safeboot (nearly all) will accomplish the same. But yes, it is very true that training "memory" can bork things up. On many boards you can force a full (blanked) retrain on every post - Max XI extreme for example.


----------



## Fissa

There is no way anyone is getting 4000mhz+ 100% stable on the Asus 4 stick t-topology Z390 mobos.

Riddle me this, it barely does 3866 mhz on 2 sticks yet this t-topology is going to sprinkle magic in the motherboard allowing 4266mhz+ speeds, sure it boots but thats it paired with instabilities.

Timing shmiming and IMC excuses are a load of crock. After extensive analysis all you're getting with 4 sticks 32gb ram on the Asus Maximus z390 hero/code is 3900mhz CL16 everything up boots but is not stable.

I guess everyone already knows this hence buying the 2 stick Asus mobos.


----------



## Fissa

FeDoK said:


> Hello.
> I'm fairly new to memory overclocking and I'm struggling to understand what is holding me from achieving lower clocks\higher frequency. I'm running an 8700k at 5.0\4.7 cache at 1.29v on MXH with Corsair CMR16GX4M2F4000C19 kit. Currently I have my ram at 4000 17-18-18-38-2N-420 at 1.38v DRAM and 1.2v IO\SA. Sometimes my system won't post with an AF code but it doesn't happen that often. However if I try to push for 4133 with any combination of clocks\voltages (I've tried 1.5v DRAM and 1.3v IO\SA) I would get an AF on post like 4\5 times and 4266 won't post at all with either AF or D5 codes. Also I can't get my timings any tighter at 4000, HCI won't pass with 17-17-17-37 no matter how high my voltages are, I even tried bumping my Vcore to 1.35v which didn't help either. Is there something I can still try to lower my timings or my IMC is just not that great?


No it's the board. Try 3900 CL16 worked for me stable but I'm on 4 sticks. If it don't work for you, you need to look at 3866 with 2 sticks everything else will get you bsod.


----------



## FeDoK

Fissa said:


> No it's the board. Try 3900 CL16 worked for me stable but I'm on 4 sticks. If it don't work for you, you need to look at 3866 with 2 sticks everything else will get you bsod.


I mean 4000 17-18-18-38 is stable for me with 2 sticks but i want to lower my timings to 17-17-17-37 which kinda works but i can't pass more than 100% HCI whithout errors no matter what my voltages are set to. I should also add that i'm not getting any BSODs even at 4000 16-16-16-36 but it isn't stable ofc and applications can randomly crash.


----------



## Fissa

FeDoK said:


> I mean 4000 17-18-18-38 is stable for me with 2 sticks but i want to lower my timings to 17-17-17-37 which kinda works but i can't pass more than 100% HCI whithout errors no matter what my voltages are set to. I should also add that i'm not getting any BSODs even at 4000 16-16-16-36 but it isn't stable ofc and applications can randomly crash.


Run this for 15 minutes on your 4000mhz stable settings. 100% it fails.

I passed 4200 cl18 memtest 700% and GSAT for 1 hour and still unstable. It wasn't CPU oc but RAM. Starting to look good now on 3900mhz CL16. I'll report back later :f


----------



## kignt

jfriend00 said:


> This may be because the memory training your BIOS did after making the tREFI change (what values it selected that you haven't explicitly specified) was different than before. I can generate a more consistent training whenever this happens by switching back to all defaults at 2133MHz (JEDEC std), booting at that, then respecifying the settings I had before and restarting. This will cause a complete retraining from scratch with no values remembered from previous runs. Sometimes if you make several small successive changes in timings, it keeps the previous trainings when they are no longer really ideal, but work enough to boot. Booting at 2133MHz and all defaults and then going back to your overclocked frequency and settings causes all training to start over, nothing remembered from before.
> 
> The more memory timing values you lock down with good values and the fewer you leave for automatic management by the motherboard, the less likely this is to happen because it won't have as many values to try to guess for you.


Interesting. Welp, the REFI toggling isn't consistent. I tried the full auto, which mine defaults to 2400. Tried it, manually keyed in settings I wanted, mixed results, tried again. I'm not sure if it's completely training anew or just partially. 



Jpmboy said:


> If I'm not mistaken, using memokay (asus) or safeboot (nearly all) will accomplish the same. But yes, it is very true that training "memory" can bork things up. On many boards you can force a full (blanked) retrain on every post - Max XI extreme for example.


On asrock, closest thing it has seems to be MRC fastboot. Tried with it enabled. From searching mentions of 'MRC', I understand it should retrain if there's any setting change, but skips it if none changed to boot sooner. I'm also unsure about the results from MRC fastboot enabled... 

If I wanted training from a "blank slate", would clearing CMOS be ideal method? I'm also trying to power cycle, just cut off power (psu switch off) for a minute or two after shutting down.


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> On asrock, closest thing it has seems to be MRC fastboot. Tried with it enabled. From searching mentions of 'MRC', I understand it should retrain if there's any setting change, but skips it if none changed to boot sooner. I'm also unsure about the results from MRC fastboot enabled...
> 
> If I wanted training from a "blank slate", would clearing CMOS be ideal method? I'm also trying to power cycle, just cut off power (psu switch off) for a minute or two after shutting down.


Setting MRC Fast Boot to disabled will cause it to retrain from scratch every time you boot. That will increase boot times, but give you a from scratch retrain every time. Once I get a good training, I don't want to start the process all over again so I leave it enabled. Sometimes, when changing settings, I have to either go back to a very slow memory speed first and then reset my new settings to get a new training when I want it.

FYI, I no longer have difficulty training because once I get a good training, I start to lock down the secondary and tertiary timings at good values (for that frequency) which makes it a ton easier for the motherboard to train the rest. Rather than having 30 simultaneous "auto" settings it has to figure out, it has far fewer and from the ones I've already set, it can probably figure out what the others should be.

Presumably clearing CMOS would clear saved memory training, but that's likely overkill. I don't think powering down will clear the saved training since the purpose of MRC Fast Boot is to start with the settings you had last time (unless major settings have been changed) so it's easier and quicker to boot.


----------



## Jpmboy

Fissa said:


> Run this for 15 minutes on your 4000mhz stable settings. 100% it fails.
> 
> I passed 4200 cl18 memtest 700% and GSAT for 1 hour and still unstable. *It wasn't CPU oc but RAM*. Starting to look good now on 3900mhz CL16. I'll report back later :f


 how did you determine this?


kignt said:


> Interesting. Welp, the REFI toggling isn't consistent. I tried the full auto, which mine defaults to 2400. Tried it, manually keyed in settings I wanted, mixed results, tried again. I'm not sure if it's completely training anew or just partially.
> 
> On asrock, closest thing it has seems to be MRC fastboot. Tried with it enabled. From searching mentions of 'MRC', I understand it should retrain if there's any setting change, but skips it if none changed to boot sooner. I'm also unsure about the results from MRC fastboot enabled...
> *If I wanted training from a "blank slate", would clearing CMOS be ideal method?* I'm also trying to power cycle, just cut off power (psu switch off) for a minute or two after shutting down.


clrcmos would be the ultimate method of flushing all parameters and giving a clean slate.


----------



## Fissa

Jpmboy said:


> how did you determine this?


I lowered cpu multiplier from 51 to 47. Anyhow it seems the problem is related to bios 0702 onwards to 0805 with 4 sticks of ram it got me strange BSODS during idle on settings that should be stable.

Using bios 0602 it's now looking to be stable (passed 500% hci memtest and now stress testing cpu which also going good) on 5.2 ghz cpu and 4000mhz cl17 RAM.

Main thing is I don't get bsods during idle on bios 0602 which I'm convinced was related to 4 sticks on newer bios.


----------



## Jpmboy

Fissa said:


> I *lowered cpu multiplier from 51 to 47.* Anyhow it seems the problem is related to bios 0702 onwards to 0805 with 4 sticks of ram it got me strange BSODS during idle on settings that should be stable.
> 
> Using bios 0602 it's now looking to be stable (passed 500% hci memtest and now stress testing cpu which also going good) on 5.2 ghz cpu and 4000mhz cl17 RAM.
> 
> Main thing is I don't get bsods during idle on bios 0602 which I'm convinced was related to 4 sticks on newer bios.


what about cache multiplier?


----------



## Silent Scone

jfriend00 said:


> Setting MRC Fast Boot to disabled will cause it to retrain from scratch every time you boot. That will increase boot times, but give you a from scratch retrain every time. Once I get a good training, I don't want to start the process all over again so I leave it enabled. Sometimes, when changing settings, I have to either go back to a very slow memory speed first and then reset my new settings to get a new training when I want it.
> 
> FYI, I no longer have difficulty training because once I get a good training, I start to lock down the secondary and tertiary timings at good values (for that frequency) which makes it a ton easier for the motherboard to train the rest. Rather than having 30 simultaneous "auto" settings it has to figure out, it has far fewer and from the ones I've already set, it can probably figure out what the others should be.
> 
> Presumably clearing CMOS would clear saved memory training, but that's likely overkill. I don't think powering down will clear the saved training since the purpose of MRC Fast Boot is to start with the settings you had last time (unless major settings have been changed) so it's easier and quicker to boot.


Sometimes it's necessary to clear the UEFI in order to remove parameters that might be stuck in NVRAM.


----------



## Fraizer

Silent Scone said:


> Sometimes it's necessary to clear the UEFI in order to remove parameters that might be stuck in NVRAM.


is good to do that at which moment ?


----------



## tistou77

Hello

A code 32 on the OLED (R6E) for the ram, this corresponds to what ?

Thanks


----------



## Silent Scone

Fraizer said:


> is good to do that at which moment ?


Depends, but if experiencing training issues on previously known good settings it can sometimes help.


----------



## jfriend00

*What is the RC setting in the XMP profile*

When I look at the XMP profile in my memory sticks (screen shot below), there's a value in the 1869MHz profile named *RC*, but I don't see that anywhere in the BIOS. What is it? What is it used for? All the other settings in the XMP are accounted for in the BIOS.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> When I look at the XMP profile in my memory sticks (screen shot below), there's a value in the 1869MHz profile named *RC*, but I don't see that anywhere in the BIOS. What is it? What is it used for? All the other settings in the XMP are accounted for in the BIOS.


 row cycle time ( should= RAS + RP)
not really useful for end-user ( you and me) to play with.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> row cycle time ( should= RAS + RP)
> not really useful for end-user ( you and me) to play with.


Since RAS and RP are already in there, why is it in the XMP? Does the motherboard use it for something?


----------



## GeneO

jfriend00 said:


> Since RAS and RP are already in there, why is it in the XMP? Does the motherboard use it for something?


You (or XMP) set RAS and RP in BIOS which determines the RC by the formula.


----------



## robertr1

Hi All, 

Been trying to learn some RAM "rules" for overclocking. DDR4 B-Die. Can you please let me know what I have right/wrong:

- tRAS = tCL+tRCD+tRTP
- tRRD_S/L = should be within 1 value of eachother or same with the "S" being the lower value
- tWTR_S/L = should be within 1 value of eachother or same with the "S" being the lower value
- tRFC = lower the better 
- VCCIO/SA = keep them in close proximity of eachother
- tFAW = tRRD_S x 4 is your fFAW value
- tREFI = tied to tRFC. bigger the better but can cause BSOD due to current leakage
- tCWL = can be same or slightly lower than tCL but not greater. If you can get a lot lower, then drop your tCL
- tRCD and tRP need to be the same

Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## Jpmboy

robertr1 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Been trying to learn some RAM "rules" for overclocking. DDR4 B-Die. Can you please let me know what I have right/wrong:
> 
> - tRAS = tCL+tRCD+tRTP (+/- 2-ish  )
> - tRRD_S/L = should be within 1 value of eachother or same with the "S" being the lower value (2 is more likely)
> - tWTR_S/L = should be within 1 value of eachother or same with the "S" being the lower value (2 is more lilely and more common)
> - tRFC = lower the better (too low will not be stable - of course)
> - VCCIO/SA = keep them in close proximity of eachother (not true)
> - tFAW = tRRD_S x 4 is your fFAW value (true as a lower limit)
> - tREFI = tied to tRFC. bigger the better but can cause BSOD due to current leakage
> - tCWL = can be same or slightly lower than tCL but not greater. If you can get a lot lower, then drop your tCL
> - tRCD and tRP need to be the same (not true)
> 
> Any feedback would be appreciated.


annotated in-line


----------



## robertr1

Jpmboy said:


> annotated in-line


Thank you! 

One setting that I can't any guidance on is "tWR" Is there a general rule for that? 

A weird thing on my Z390 Auros Pro. I can't get the tWTR_S/L to train. Just always defaults to 8/17.


----------



## mattliston

if tWR stands for write recovery time, I generally make sure it is same as CAS or up to +7, making sure it is an even number. So if example, CAS was 12, max would be 18, not 19.


----------



## CerN

I have a 9900k on an XI Formula board.

32GB G.Skill 4266 kit with stock timings of 17-18-18-38. TRFC is auto set to 748 and TREFI to 16150.

Could not get stable at 4266mhz but testing these settings at 4133 and seems stable:
16-18-18-34
tRFC 560
tREFI 32300

Does this sound reasonable? Anything I should test further/focus on? Do you think my tRFC could realistically go much lower? Would prefer to avoid corrupting the OS.

Currently testing this:


----------



## Jpmboy

CerN said:


> I have a 9900k on an XI Formula board.
> 
> 32GB G.Skill 4266 kit with stock timings of 17-18-18-38. TRFC is auto set to 748 and TREFI to 16150.
> 
> Could not get stable at 4266mhz but testing these settings at 4133 and seems stable:
> 16-18-18-34
> tRFC 560
> tREFI 32300
> 
> Does this sound reasonable? Anything I should test further/focus on? Do you think my tRFC could realistically go much lower? Would prefer to avoid corrupting the OS.
> 
> Currently testing this:


What do you mean "seem stable"?


----------



## CerN

Jpmboy said:


> What do you mean "seem stable"?


Been stress testing for a few hours, and saved this as a profile. Gonna do overnight testing, but I just want to know if you see anything wrong, or anything I should change, and if not - what to focus on next?
I have OCed frequency and primary timings for years, but never dived into secondary and tertiary stuff before.


----------



## chibi

CerN said:


> Been stress testing for a few hours, and saved this as a profile. Gonna do overnight testing, but I just want to know if you see anything wrong, or anything I should change, and if not - what to focus on next?
> I have OCed frequency and primary timings for years, but never dived into secondary and tertiary stuff before.



Hate to be that guy, but can you let us know what method of testing you're using?


----------



## CerN

chibi said:


> Hate to be that guy, but can you let us know what method of testing you're using?


HCI Memtest.

I'm happy to go into details, but I just really want some assurance that my timings seem OK, or if the stuff set by XMP/Training is bad/wrong etc.
If anything stands out as weird, or some obvious easy gains.


----------



## jfriend00

CerN said:


> HCI Memtest.
> 
> I'm happy to go into details, but I just really want some assurance that my timings seem OK, or if the stuff set by XMP/Training is bad/wrong etc.
> If anything stands out as weird, or some obvious easy gains.


Well, once you have proven stability, the best way to see if anything is seriously off with your timings is to run the AIDA64 memory benchmark, compare to others here and post it here. 

That will tell you whether you're memory is operating in the expected performance range for the timing/frequency you're running which is not always a given even though it's stable at 4133. I had a 4133 (2x8) that was really, really hard to get it to even close to as fast as 4000 and it took a couple tertiary timing adjustments to even get it close. Before that, it was quite slow.

So, check your memory benchmark numbers.


----------



## kignt

I'm trying to find daily io/sa values. I recently got my ram kit to 4400 19-20-20 bios vdimm 1.46v (hwinfo vdimm 1.48v) and still trying to stabilize (karhu, hci, my usage) them. Some times I'll settle for just one short-term testing and then it must not cause issues during my daily usage (nothing mission-critical, if anything, far from it). 

In z370 taichi's bios, io/sa = 1.23v/1.27v, but hwinfo reads io/sa = 1.248v/1.288v. Since buildzoid's recent ram oc on z390 aorus master, I am sort of not afraid to try up to 1.3v for vccsa. 
In the organized tables of the first post, there's maybe only a handful of samples that used >1.3v for vccsa (also the highlights helped to spot them, thanks OP). Noted 1.35v vccsa sample was under the description of uncommon/excessive voltage. 

(image: Karhu's ram test, using slightly less thread and ram bc I'm actively using the system while testing too. Visual speck is really just the "gsync compatible indicator" at tiny res.)


----------



## Telstar

yes, 1.30V is safe.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- i9 9900K @5.1/4.7 -- 4133Mhz C17-18-18-41-2T -- 1.44v -- SA 1.23v- - VCCIO 1.23v -- HCI 1700%

Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master motherboard -- G.Skill CL14 3200 b-die memory.


----------



## GRABibus

GRABibus -- i7 5930K @4.8/4.6 -- 3200Mhz C13-14-13-34-1T -- 1.4v -- SA 0.8v- - VCCIO 1.05v -- HCI 1000% minimum

Motherboard : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin = 1.8V


Any idea why I have so much differences % between threads ? Lowest is 1000.4% and highest 1409.2%.

I use 6.1 version of HCI


----------



## EEH89

I found that VCCSA does nothing for RAM and IMC stability.
VCCIO what makes the difference.
X99 strix i7 6900K 32 GB Ram
I was able to run my RAM to 2933 MHz with VCCSA and VCCIO 0.95V stable , but not stable at 3200mhz.
Changing VCCSA did nothing.
Increasing VCCIO to 1.05V, I am stable at 3200Mhz
Tested with HCI memtest deluxe, Pro and karhu RAM test, rock stable.
Stop waiting your time with VCCSA. VCCIO is for IMC 


Image with HCI memtest Deluxe 15.6 Hours at 3200Mhz RAM speed. VCCSA 0.95V (+0.058 Offset) VCCIO 1.05V.
Note that cache also OC to 3.6 Ghz @ 1.13V , CPU 4.3Ghz at 1.335V


----------



## Blameless

EEH89 said:


> Stop waiting your time with VCCSA. VCCIO is for IMC


Evidently, the memory controller's I/O voltage (controlled by VCCIO) and not it's internal voltage (controlled by VCCSA), was the limiting factor in your particular case, but this is not always so.


----------



## kignt

*4400 c19-20-20 2T, uncommon voltages*

kignt -- i7 8700K @5.0/4.4, 2x8GB TG 4400MHz-C19-20-20-39-2T, 1.475v vdimm, 1.240v vccio, 1.280v vccsa (all in bios) ---HCI 1600%---Karhu(cache enabled) 9800% --
Asrock z370 Taichi -- TeamGroup 3200 CL14 TDPGD416G3200HC14ADC01 --

other: 1.380vcore(bios, asrock llc 2). The A-tuning window shows bios settings. 
I used Integral's MemTestHelper but replaced the exe with hci pro. 
I was obsessed with 300 RFC, and couldn't pass long tests until loosened to 374. Afterwards, I tried 20mV less dram, io, and sa, it loads OS but failed tests. 
Legitreviews had a response from Intel regarding ddr4 Dram voltage of 1.5v. 
Lots of bsod's lead to the raising of voltages. I'd recommend this old thread that still seems relevant. Like, getting the bsod 0x7E "SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED", should prompt for a sfc /scannow. I was surprised it did actually find errors. For other bsod messages, a google search will help to find the matching codes.

update: tuned timings my next post


----------



## tistou77

kignt said:


> kignt -- i7 8700K @5.0/4.4, 2x8GB TG 4400MHz-C19-20-20-39-2T, 1.475v vdimm, 1.240v vccio, 1.280v vccsa (all in bios) ---HCI 1600%---Karhu(cache enabled) 9800% --
> Asrock z370 Taichi -- TeamGroup 3200 CL14 TDPGD416G3200HC14ADC01 --
> 
> other: 1.380vcore(bios, asrock llc 2). The A-tuning window shows bios settings.
> I used Integral's MemTestHelper but replaced the exe with hci pro.
> I was obsessed with 300 RFC, and couldn't pass long tests until loosened to 374. Afterwards, I tried 20mV less dram, io, and sa, it loads OS but failed tests.
> Legitreviews had a response from Intel regarding ddr4 Dram voltage of 1.5v.
> Lots of bsod's lead to the raising of voltages. I'd recommend this old thread that still seems relevant. Like, getting the bsod 0x7E "SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED", should prompt for a sfc /scannow. I was surprised it did actually find errors. For other bsod messages, a google search will help to find the matching codes.


What is your apps for Memtest (right on your screen) ?


----------



## kignt

tistou77 said:


> What is your apps for Memtest (right on your screen) ?


Integral's MemTestHelper, on github  channel #ram-oc > pinned messages.

On oc.net, @BLUuuE. It is his launcher for HCI Memtest.


----------



## tistou77

kignt said:


> Integral's MemTestHelper, on github  <link. Found from the reddit sub r/overclocking 's discord > channel #ram-oc > pinned messages.
> 
> On oc.net, @BLUuuE. It is his launcher for HCI Memtest.


Thanks :thumb:


----------



## Robostyle

I'm curious about high density ram sticks OC limitations - remember you guys telling something about mb topology. 
So, at the end I was able to push both 16GB sticks to [email protected], at default factory voltage of 1.35V. 

But I'm still curious, what's the exact thing, in details - that holds such ram oc-ing - that you need to grab 2slot motherboard for 16 and 32 gb sticks overclock?


----------



## kignt

*4400 c19-20-20 2T, uncommon voltages, tuned*

kignt -- i7 8700K @5.0/4.4, 2x8GB TG 4400MHz-C19-20-20-39-2T, 1.475v vdimm, 1.240v vccio, 1.280v vccsa (all in bios) ---HCI 1500%---Karhu(cache enabled) 10000% --
Asrock z370 Taichi -- TeamGroup 3200 CL14 TDPGD416G3200HC14ADC01 --

Since loosening RFC, I forgot to tighten all secondary and tertiary's. So then, I tried just about mirroring some past working configs or basically sdch's post (from Jan 1st '19). Went to test Karhu and HCI. 
It passed. 

I'm under the impression that tight secondary and tertiary values are universal across most ddr4-xxxx. The only adjustments needed are primary's and RFC, which will vary or scale at whatever the ram's speed. I feel RFC should be considered a primary timing. jfriend00 posted (post #8261, 02-13-2019) a really good explaination on tRFC. 

other: In Karhu's ram test, when hovering the mouse cursor over the coverage %, the tooltip reveals the coverage speed in MB/s, which seems to make sense that Karhu's is faster compared to HCI (memtesthelper shows coverage speed too). In my previous tests, ddr4-4400 config's coverage speed was about 160 to 162, which didnt match up with a ddr4-4300 config that I've seen do 170. Trying to find the right voltages and I forgot about tighter timings.


----------



## kignt

*BSOD codes and possible action*

Sourced from this old thread by overclocker23578 that still seems relevant, IMO. I just matched the codes to their modern Window's BSOD message.
For other BSOD messages, a google search will help to find the matching codes. The codes are in truncated (shortened) form.




BSOD code | Message | Action
---|---|----
0x124 | WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR | add/remove Vcore or IMC voltage (usually Vcore, once it was IMC)
0x101 | CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT | add Vcore
0x50 | PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA | RAM timings/Frequency, add ram or IMC voltage
0x1E | KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED | add Vcore
0x3B | SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION | add Vcore
0xD1 | DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL | add IMC voltage, or ram voltage
0x9C | MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION | IMC most likely, but increasing Vcore has helped in some instances
0x109 | CRITICAL_STRUCTURE_CORRUPTION | add ram voltage
0x0A | IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL | add IMC voltage 
0x1A | MEMORY_MANAGEMENT | It usually means a bad stick of ram. Test with Memtest or whatever you prefer. Try raising ram voltage. Can also mean more juice for the IMC
0x7E | SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED | should do sfc /scannow


----------



## jfriend00

Robostyle said:


> I'm curious about high density ram sticks OC limitations - remember you guys telling something about mb topology.
> So, at the end I was able to push both 16GB sticks to [email protected], at default factory voltage of 1.35V.
> 
> But I'm still curious, what's the exact thing, in details - that holds such ram oc-ing - that you need to grab 2slot motherboard for 16 and 32 gb sticks overclock?


Extra challenges with high density (16GB) RAM sticks:

1. Multiple ranks on the same stick means more traces on the DIMM and more of a chance for noise issues between traces
2. When you have multiple ranks per DIMM, all the xxxx_dr tertiary timings become important and must be correct for proper operation and these timings are difficult to train and are not in the XMP. Without multiple ranks per DIMM, those timings are not used at all. Note the timing suffix "_dr" appears to stand for "different rank" on the same channel.
3. Multiple rank sticks may get hotter. There are more memory chips per DIMM and per heatsink.
4. Integrated memory controller has more work to do with more ranks

As for boards that only have two DIMM slots, they are generally considered better for overclocking two DIMMs no matter what the density of those DIMMs. This is mostly because there are not empty extra DIMMs and all the traces that lead to those DIMMs that can cause signal issues at the higher clock frequencies (I've read articles about reflected signals and termination resisters, etc... from unused DIMM traces). If you have a two DIMM board occupied by two DIMMs, then there can be less noise in communicating with the DIMMs.

Board's that use the T-topology trace layout to their DIMMs (which I think is most ASUS boards with 4 DIMMs) are supposedly a bit more optimized for four DIMMs than two DIMMs. Boards that use Daisy chain trace layout (which I know is ASRock, not sure about others) are supposedly a bit more optimized for two DIMMs. 

"T-topology layout" attempts to have identical trace distances to each DIMMs on the same channel (even though they are physically different distances from the CPU) to even out timing delays when communicating with each DIMM. This requires making the traces to the closest DIMMs longer than the minimum distance they could be (which makes 4 DIMMs better, with a slight sacrifice for 2 DIMMs). 

"Daisy chain layout" links the two DIMMs per channel in serial fashion so the closest DIMM on each channel has the shortest leads possible, but the other DIMM on each channel has long traces than the first DIMM on each channel. This can be better for 2 DIMMs at the expense of 4 DIMMs.

It is hard to tell from literature or even experiences how much of a difference this "t-topology" vs. "daisy chain" actually makes. The theory is that any two DIMM set would clock best in a two DIMM board, then next best in a four DIMM daisy chain board. And, a four DIMM set would clock best in a t-topology layout board.

There is no clear evidence I've found about whether a 2x16 or 4x8 set will clock better (e.g. which is better to buy if you want 32GB). I attempted to cover all the possible issues and things I've read in this thread:

Claims on 2x16 vs 4x8 memory overclocking - true or false? 

which really just succeeded in showing that nobody here seems to know which claims are true. The best I could tell from reading lots and lots of posts is that those with the most experience in overclocking memory seem to think that overclocking 2x16 is harder than 4x8, but that appears to be more lore than established fact (still might be true, just don't know for sure).

FYI, this all started for me because I have a 4x8 set rated for [email protected] which simply won't get stable at that frequency (on a daisy chain ASRock Z390 Taichi board). I eventually discovered that one of my DIMMs is weaker than the others and that's probably what is holding back the set so my issue may not have anything to do with any of the above issues. I'm currently running the best 2x8 sticks at [email protected] and I'm going to contact G.Skill about swapping my other two sticks so I can try the 4x8 config again.

If I were to buy a new set of 32GB DRAM with the aim of overclocking it, I'm still not sure whether it's better to buy 2x16 or 4x8. There are certainly cases of people in the last few months getting 32GB sets stable (both 2x16 and 4x8) above 4000MHz so it certainly can be done.


----------



## howling391

Chiming in with a 2x16gb gskill set(3200 CL 14 non rgb) and from my limited research it seems that all 4000+mhz with tight timings seems to be achieved with either 2x8 or 4x8 albeit better with 2x8. I don't recall seeing any 2x16's that reach 4000+ with somewhat tight timings.

My set refuses to boot at 3800mhz no matter how much dram voltage or vccio/sa I give it even with very loose timings. Tested with M X Hero with my 9900k(also with my 8700k but the IMC on my 9900k is better)

0 Errors with HCImemtest @ ~4100% coverage(took ~42 hours to test) with 1800 x 16 instances. 3733-17-17-17-36-2T along with tight secondary/tertiary was the best I can get with mine. tREFI also refused to be anything higher than JEDEC default or it would throw errors.

I'm also curious if running my exact same set on Apex boards would result in slightly higher frequency or tighter timings, or if running 4x16 sticks would have better results than 2x16.


----------



## Telstar

jfriend00 said:


> FYI, this all started for me because I have a 4x8 set rated for [email protected] which simply won't get stable at that frequency (on a daisy chain ASRock Z390 Taichi board).
> (…)
> If I were to buy a new set of 32GB DRAM with the aim of overclocking it, I'm still not sure whether it's better to buy 2x16 or 4x8. There are certainly cases of people in the last few months getting 32GB sets stable (both 2x16 and 4x8) above 4000MHz so it certainly can be done.


It really depends on your mainboard.

On a t-topology mainboard such as the z390 Aorus master with 4x8 sticks you can reach very high frequencies. Buildzoid made to 4500, geekbench stable on that board, probably 4133 is doable for daily.
To do better (perhaps), you need a 2-dimm board, therefore 2x16 b-die would be the only choice in that case. The 3200 c14 tridentz rgb kit is the cheapest at the moment with a bit less than 350$ price, maybe 4x8 kits are cheaper.
Hope this helps.


----------



## Telstar

howling391 said:


> Chiming in with a 2x16gb gskill set(3200 CL 14 non rgb) and from my limited research it seems that all 4000+mhz with tight timings seems to be achieved with either 2x8 or 4x8 albeit better with 2x8. I don't recall seeing any 2x16's that reach 4000+ with somewhat tight timings.


The 9900k has a better IMC than 8th gen cpus, so you could reach higher on a 2 dimm board for sure.
I have seen something on ROG forums, around 4200 on a Apex X IIRC. Then that thread degenerated and it seems almost nobody have 2x16 b-die kits still, probably because they are too expensive.

On a sidenote, with 4-dimm boards the silicon lottery applies to the mainboard itself, which is a serious issue. A friend of mine cant do better than 3733 (2x8) on his Aorus master, while _someone_ (see my previous post) reached 4500 with 4x8 on his cherry picked board.


----------



## Robostyle

jfriend00 said:


> Extra challenges with high density (16GB) RAM sticks:


Many thanks for the material! As always, alot of things I can't find lurking the whole internet, come up here.
So generally, without some HUGE, global research, with millions of sticks involved, even better if supported/funded by one of the biggest ram manufacturers (samsung for example) - any kind of solid theory break on system-to-system difference and silicon lottery. 

I still trying to squeeze something from my kit - 3800MHz is the maximum I've seen so far, dunno if 4000 is even possible at all.
As well as another thing - simply said, one will never go literally faster (in terms of computing speed, latency), even if its able to hit higher frequency, and therefore bandwith. Does it depends only on RAM sticks or motherboard/imc aswell? 

For an instanse, I have 2x16 b-die kit, 3000CL14. Without any hardcore tweaking, it goes easily 3200CL14, 3600CL16, 3733/3800 CL17-19-39. But it doesn't even boot if I try something like 3466CL14, 3600CL15 - and nothing would change it, neither ram voltage or current, IMC/agent settings, or secondary timing tweak - this is the most interesting part for me - while sticks work perfectly at high frequency with super-tight secondary timings, they won't let me drop primary ones even for 1, evne if I absurdly loose secondaries.
Thus, 3200CL14 at the moment is the most "reactive" set - my kit just won't go past it.


----------



## jfriend00

Robostyle said:


> Many thanks for the material! As always, alot of things I can't find lurking the whole internet, come up here.
> So generally, without some HUGE, global research, with millions of sticks involved, even better if supported/funded by one of the biggest ram manufacturers (samsung for example) - any kind of solid theory break on system-to-system difference and silicon lottery.
> 
> I still trying to squeeze something from my kit - 3800MHz is the maximum I've seen so far, dunno if 4000 is even possible at all.
> As well as another thing - simply said, one will never go literally faster (in terms of computing speed, latency), even if its able to hit higher frequency, and therefore bandwith. Does it depends only on RAM sticks or motherboard/imc aswell?
> 
> For an instanse, I have 2x16 b-die kit, 3000CL14. Without any hardcore tweaking, it goes easily 3200CL14, 3600CL16, 3733/3800 CL17-19-39. But it doesn't even boot if I try something like 3466CL14, 3600CL15 - and nothing would change it, neither ram voltage or current, IMC/agent settings, or secondary timing tweak - this is the most interesting part for me - while sticks work perfectly at high frequency with super-tight secondary timings, they won't let me drop primary ones even for 1, evne if I absurdly loose secondaries.
> Thus, 3200CL14 at the moment is the most "reactive" set - my kit just won't go past it.


At a given DRAM voltage, there's a limit to how low the primaries can go which simply has to do with the memory chips themselves. At 1.45V, I can get [email protected] to work. The calculated latency time of CL15 at 4000MHz is 7.5ns. That's likely the limit for these chips. In other words, it takes 7.5ns to activate a column in these particular B-die chips at 1.45V. This is a property of the memory chips themselves.

The frequency the system will run at, on the other hand, is a "whole system" property that includes the IMC, the motherboard design, the DIMM design and the memory chips themselves. They ALL have to work together to allow one to run at a high frequency. Any one weak link can kill the ability to run at a high frequency. For example, I can run stable at [email protected] or [email protected], but I cannot get my system to even boot at any higher frequency with these sticks, no matter how loose the timings are. Since I know there are others who have reached higher frequencies with my processor (i7-9700k) and with my motherboard (ASRock Z390 Taichi) and my DIMM design (G.Skill TridentZ), I suspect it's an issue with my actual DRAM chips, but it could also be a less than perfect IMC in the processor or a less than perfect motherboard. I would have to try some DRAM sticks that have been proven to run above 4133 in some other system or try my DRAM sticks in a system that has been proven to run above 4133 to draw any more conclusions about where my limitation is.

Primary timings are called primary for a reason, they're pretty core to the memory chips themselves. While the rest of the system may have to cooperate to allow you to successfully run low primaries, at a given voltage and temperature, there's just going to be a limit inside the memory chips themselves.


----------



## Awesome

I know this is a DDR4 thread, but I was pointed here because you guys know your stuff.

I am thinking of upgrading my old first-gen H55 system with a Xeon x3440 and faster ram. I can't afford/don't need a new system right now according to the boss/wife, so I've got to spend as little money as I can.

I've run into memory compatibility issues before. I think I was trying to install single-sided 4gb sticks. The motherboard is a P7H55-M Pro. Does anyone know for a fact which 16gb kit in the 2133+ range of DDR3 memory is going to work with this board? For example: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231656 <--- looks like dual-sided RAM, but don't know for sure how to check, or even if it will actually work.


----------



## jfriend00

Awesome said:


> I know this is a DDR4 thread, but I was pointed here because you guys know your stuff.
> 
> I am thinking of upgrading my old first-gen H55 system with a Xeon x3440 and faster ram. I can't afford/don't need a new system right now according to the boss/wife, so I've got to spend as little money as I can.
> 
> I've run into memory compatibility issues before. I think I was trying to install single-sided 4gb sticks. The motherboard is a P7H55-M Pro. Does anyone know for a fact which 16gb kit in the 2133+ range of DDR3 memory is going to work with this board? For example: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231656 <--- looks like dual-sided RAM, but don't know for sure how to check, or even if it will actually work.


The ASUS memory support list for that board is here. I do not see that memory set on the qualified vendors list for your motherboard. In fact, I don't see any 4x4GB sets on the QVL. Maybe they didn't exist back when the motherboard was still a fresh product.

You can also look on G.Skill's RAM Configurator for your motherboard and see what G.Skill thinks will work with your motherboard. I do not see that memory kit on this list either. There are some 4x4GB kits on there that you could look into, but none are at 2133MHz.

Frankly, you're talking about a 9 year old motherboard. It's rarely a wise investment to be trying to upgrade memory around that old a motherboard. I'd be guessing that a low-end, but modern i3/i5 DDR4 system would run circles around that, not cost that much and give you many more years of life. Perhaps you can keep the existing case, drives, monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc... and just upgrade motherboard, CPU and DRAM. 

By comparison, you can get faster DDR4 memory in 2x8GB for about the same price so that's a wash. You just need to spring for a new motherboard (which could be less than $100) and however much you want to spend on a CPU which could be as low as $150. I don't know the AMD/Ryzen line myself, but they are currently offering better prices than Intel for the price conscious.


----------



## Robostyle

Trying to tight up the timings, yet, unsuccessfully - and I doubt if it makes any sense though. 
RAM is g.skill trident z 3000CL14. No issues with running 3200CL14. 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=255894&thumb=1
Aaand, it's still unstable. VRAM is 1.4V, though pushing it to 1.45V did nothing at all. Timings are pretty loose already, but maybe I'm loosing smth?


----------



## kignt

*tRFC in time (ns) = cycles * 2000 / ddr-xxxx*

Made a chart based on that formula for tRFC in time (ns). 
Attached file or (imgur) https://i.imgur.com/ydwnPPl.png

Found out about it from @BLUuuE. Samsung b-die can do <200ns.


----------



## jfriend00

kignt said:


> Made a chart based on that formula for tRFC in time (ns).
> Attached file or (imgur) https://i.imgur.com/ydwnPPl.png
> 
> Found out about it from @BLUuuE. Samsung b-die can do <200ns.


Based on what tRFC actually is, I would think it would likely vary some with DRAM voltage as a higher voltage can probably refresh faster. It may also vary some with temperature of the chips (since several electrical properties vary with temperature such as leakage current).


----------



## kignt

jfriend00 said:


> Based on what tRFC actually is, I would think it would likely vary some with DRAM voltage as a higher voltage can probably refresh faster. It may also vary some with temperature of the chips (since several electrical properties vary with temperature such as leakage current).


Definitely, and makes sense some extreme oc benches claim 240 or less RFC when pushing beyond ddr4-4000


----------



## Awesome

jfriend00 said:


> The ASUS memory support list for that board is here. I do not see that memory set on the qualified vendors list for your motherboard. In fact, I don't see any 4x4GB sets on the QVL. Maybe they didn't exist back when the motherboard was still a fresh product.
> 
> You can also look on G.Skill's RAM Configurator for your motherboard and see what G.Skill thinks will work with your motherboard. I do not see that memory kit on this list either. There are some 4x4GB kits on there that you could look into, but none are at 2133MHz.
> 
> Frankly, you're talking about a 9 year old motherboard. It's rarely a wise investment to be trying to upgrade memory around that old a motherboard. I'd be guessing that a low-end, but modern i3/i5 DDR4 system would run circles around that, not cost that much and give you many more years of life. Perhaps you can keep the existing case, drives, monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc... and just upgrade motherboard, CPU and DRAM.
> 
> By comparison, you can get faster DDR4 memory in 2x8GB for about the same price so that's a wash. You just need to spring for a new motherboard (which could be less than $100) and however much you want to spend on a CPU which could be as low as $150. I don't know the AMD/Ryzen line myself, but they are currently offering better prices than Intel for the price conscious.


Right, an upgrade makes more sense to you and I, but spending money on a computer doesn't make sense to the wife.  Since nobody else answered, I'm going to guess nobody really knows the answer to my question.

My real upgrade path would be a Ryzen 5 or i5-9400F (the Ryzen seems to be a better deal right now), but I've been unable to convince the wife about the upgrade thus far.


----------



## jfriend00

Awesome said:


> Right, an upgrade makes more sense to you and I, but spending money on a computer doesn't make sense to the wife.  Since nobody else answered, I'm going to guess nobody really knows the answer to my question.
> 
> My real upgrade path would be a Ryzen 5 or i5-9400F (the Ryzen seems to be a better deal right now), but I've been unable to convince the wife about the upgrade thus far.


Then, maybe just save the money for now until you have enough for a decent upgrade. 

What seems less-than-wise to me is spending money on hardware that will only work with an old system and won't really make much of a difference for that system. That's essentially throw-away money. It doesn't get you any closer to a good, modern system and, in fact, it seems like that only takes you even further away from when you can do a meaningful upgrade that will last awhile because that money will be gone, unrecoverable and doesn't apply towards a new system.

It is obviously your choice what to do, just offering an opinion.


----------



## TahoeDust

TahoeDust -- i9 9900K @5.1/4.7 -- 4200Mhz 17-17-17-37-2T -- 1.45v -- SA 1.28v- - VCCIO 1.23v -- Ram Test 1hr

EVGA z390 Dark motherboard -- G.Skill CL18 4400 b-die memory


----------



## SimplyQQ

Guys, please help me figure this one out.

i9-9900K @5.0/4.7 + Maximus XI Hero. CPU OC is irrelevant because same happens under stock speeds.

G.skill TridentZ 3600 CL15. I'm trying to run it @ 4000 16-16-16-40, everything else relaxed. Trying 1.45v-1.5v.

Windows boot, I run stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 25000 and it runs fine, no errors. Parallely I run OCCT 4.4.2 large set test which also runs fine, up until stressapptest comes up with this:

Log: Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (3420 seconds remaining)
Log: Seconds remaining: 3410
Log: Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (3405 seconds remaining)

At this point, sometimes, not always, but very likely 10 minutes into testing, OCCT fails. It's as something fails due to power spike.

I attach my timings. If need more info please ask.

Is there something in bios that can be set? It's as if some ripple or noise or something kills OCCT even though if I run just stressapptest or just OCCT they dont fail


----------



## jfriend00

SimplyQQ said:


> Guys, please help me figure this one out.
> 
> i9-9900K @5.0/4.7 + Maximus XI Hero. CPU OC is irrelevant because same happens under stock speeds.
> 
> G.skill TridentZ 3600 CL15. I'm trying to run it @ 4000 16-16-16-40, everything else relaxed. Trying 1.45v-1.5v.
> 
> Windows boot, I run stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 25000 and it runs fine, no errors. Parallely I run OCCT 4.4.2 large set test which also runs fine, up until stressapptest comes up with this:
> 
> Log: Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (3420 seconds remaining)
> Log: Seconds remaining: 3410
> Log: Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (3405 seconds remaining)
> 
> At this point, sometimes, not always, but very likely 10 minutes into testing, OCCT fails. It's as something fails due to power spike.
> 
> I attach my timings. If need more info please ask.
> 
> Is there something in bios that can be set? It's as if some ripple or noise or something kills OCCT even though if I run just stressapptest or just OCCT they dont fail


Are you running OCCT and stressapptest at the same time? If so, stop doing that. That an unnecessary amount of stress. Run each stress test separately. I'd also be wondering what happens to temperatures while trying to run multiple stress tests at the same time.


----------



## mouacyk

I have never got flat 16 primaries to be stable on my 2x8GB 3600C15 kit either at 4000MHz with up to 1.5v on DIMMs, even with 2T. Had to settle for staggered 16-17-17 1T for stability. I imagine 4x8GB will be impossible -- B-Die just prefers staggered primaries at higher frequency for reasons.


----------



## Lukeyboy89

Hey lads, super helpful thread.

Looking for some advice on this kit "F4-4400C18Q-32GTZR"

Is this A1 or A2? If its A2 is there a similar A1 kit available? I don't care much for RGB. My goal is 3866 @ CL15-T1, anything higher is a bonus. Running a 8086K @ 5.3Ghz on a Maximus XI Extreme board. 

Made the mistake of purchasing 2x 4400 Trident Z Royal kits, and one of the kits performs significantly worse than the other, limiting my overclock to 3200Mhz @ 14-14-14-28-T1

any advice welcome!


----------



## Jpmboy

SimplyQQ said:


> Guys, please help me figure this one out.
> 
> i9-9900K @5.0/4.7 + Maximus XI Hero. CPU OC is irrelevant because same happens under stock speeds.
> 
> G.skill TridentZ 3600 CL15. I'm trying to run it @ 4000 16-16-16-40, everything else relaxed. Trying 1.45v-1.5v.
> 
> Windows boot, I run stressapptest -W -s 3600 -M 25000 and it runs fine, no errors. Parallely I run OCCT 4.4.2 large set test which also runs fine, up until stressapptest comes up with this:
> 
> Log: Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (3420 seconds remaining)
> Log: Seconds remaining: 3410
> Log: Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (3405 seconds remaining)
> 
> At this point, sometimes, not always, but very likely 10 minutes into testing, OCCT fails. It's as something fails due to power spike.
> 
> I attach my timings. If need more info please ask.
> 
> Is there something in bios that can be set? It's as if some ripple or noise or something kills OCCT even though if I run just stressapptest or just OCCT they dont fail


 disable the power spike pause (which is meaningless on a desktop implementation - it's a large server array thing).
for 32GB use this command for a 1 hour test:
stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700

OCCT is likely failing since GSAT is reserving blocks while testing, then rotating to a different block. (eg, all the installed ram is tested even tho you have specified less than the available or installed ram. Always leave 1-2GB free for windows even when doing something wacky like running GSAT and OCCT at the same time )


----------



## wingman99

Lukeyboy89 said:


> Hey lads, super helpful thread.
> 
> Looking for some advice on this kit "F4-4400C18Q-32GTZR"
> 
> Is this A1 or A2? If its A2 is there a similar A1 kit available? I don't care much for RGB. My goal is 3866 @ CL15-T1, anything higher is a bonus. Running a 8086K @ 5.3Ghz on a Maximus XI Extreme board.
> 
> Made the mistake of purchasing 2x 4400 Trident Z Royal kits, and one of the kits performs significantly worse than the other, limiting my overclock to 3200Mhz @ 14-14-14-28-T1
> 
> any advice welcome!


Did one kit run the 4400 speed and one kit run 3200 speed?


----------



## Lukeyboy89

wingman99 said:


> Did one kit run the 4400 speed and one kit run 3200 speed?


Neither will do 4400 no matter how much voltage I put into them at XMP settings. I can get 1 kit stable at 4000 16-16-16-36-T1, the other kit won't do anything above 3466.

Unfortunately I traded my old memory which ran 4133 at 17-17-17-37-T1 1.5...kicking myself


----------



## TahoeDust

Lukeyboy89 said:


> Neither will do 4400 no matter how much voltage I put into them at XMP settings. I can get 1 kit stable at 4000 16-16-16-36-T1, the other kit won't do anything above 3466.
> 
> Unfortunately I traded my old memory which ran 4133 at 17-17-17-37-T1 1.5...kicking myself


I have the 4400c18 RGB kit and it also won't do 4400. It does run 4200 17-17-17-37-T2 1.45 completely stable. It will not post with T1, but I have not tried any higher voltage. Do you think the extra voltage would make any difference?


----------



## Nizzen

TahoeDust said:


> I have the 4400c18 RGB kit and it also won't do 4400. It does run 4200 17-17-17-37-T2 1.45 completely stable. It will not post with T1, but I have not tried any higher voltage. Do you think the extra voltage would make any difference?


What MB do you use?


----------



## TahoeDust

Nizzen said:


> What MB do you use?


EVGA z390 Dark


----------



## xSneak

Robostyle said:


> Trying to tight up the timings, yet, unsuccessfully - and I doubt if it makes any sense though.
> RAM is g.skill trident z 3000CL14. No issues with running 3200CL14.
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=255894&thumb=1
> Aaand, it's still unstable. VRAM is 1.4V, though pushing it to 1.45V did nothing at all. Timings are pretty loose already, but maybe I'm loosing smth?


your primaries seem to be really tight, especially the trcd - trp timings. 

Here's what i was able to achieve at 3700mhz

Gotta love the attachment system rotating my picture for no reason.


----------



## wingman99

Lukeyboy89 said:


> Neither will do 4400 no matter how much voltage I put into them at XMP settings. I can get 1 kit stable at 4000 16-16-16-36-T1, the other kit won't do anything above 3466.
> 
> Unfortunately I traded my old memory which ran 4133 at 17-17-17-37-T1 1.5...kicking myself


The 4133 at 17-17-17-37-T1 what kit and speed was it?


----------



## Lukeyboy89

wingman99 said:


> The 4133 at 17-17-17-37-T1 what kit and speed was it?


G.Skill F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR, ran it at 1.5v memtest 4 pass without error. 

What's a safe 24/7 voltage for Samsung Bdie? Not sure how high I can go and still be reasonably safe.


----------



## encrypted11

xSneak said:


> your primaries seem to be really tight, especially the trcd - trp timings.
> 
> Here's what i was able to achieve at 3700mhz
> 
> Gotta love the attachment system rotating my picture for no reason.



What I was able to get with the Z370 Gaming-ITX/ac awhile ago


encrypted11 said:


> Another data point
> encrypted11--i78700K VCore 1.312V @5.2/4.5---4400Mhz-C18-19-19-39-1T----VDIMM 1.45V (BIOS) ---SA 1.20V (BIOS)---IO 1.17V (BIOS) Stressapptest (Mint 18.1)----1 Hour
> G.SKILL TridentZ F4-4266C19D-16GTZKW
> 
> Early runs, but C17 4266 seems impossible on this kit (tried up to 1.5V), I've not seen 4133 C17-1T GSAT stable either that would occur on my 3200 C14 kit. But it clocks better C18+ 4133 and above just fine it seems.


----------



## Telstar

Lukeyboy89 said:


> G.Skill F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR, ran it at 1.5v memtest 4 pass without error.
> 
> What's a safe 24/7 voltage for Samsung Bdie? Not sure how high I can go and still be reasonably safe.


1.46V.


----------



## Silent Scone

4200MHz on Formula XI


----------



## Lukeyboy89

Is there a graph lying around anywhere for Intel chips, that shows comparisons between timings and speed? As I understand it T1 is significantly better than T2 and the biggest jump you'll get out of all the timings? But at what point does speed and T2 come out ahead?

For instance 3600mhz 15-15-15-36-1T vs 4266mhz 17-17-17-37-T2?

Thanks for teaching a noob


----------



## Telstar

AFAIK T1 vsT2 doesn't make as big a difference it did on DDR3 days.
Someone more techy than myself could explain why.


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> 4200MHz on Formula XI


 Nice!


----------



## wingman99

Lukeyboy89 said:


> G.Skill F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR, ran it at 1.5v memtest 4 pass without error.
> 
> What's a safe 24/7 voltage for Samsung Bdie? Not sure how high I can go and still be reasonably safe.


1.5v is safe for 24/7.


----------



## xSneak

Lukeyboy89 said:


> Is there a graph lying around anywhere for Intel chips, that shows comparisons between timings and speed? As I understand it T1 is significantly better than T2 and the biggest jump you'll get out of all the timings? But at what point does speed and T2 come out ahead?
> 
> For instance 3600mhz 15-15-15-36-1T vs 4266mhz 17-17-17-37-T2?
> 
> Thanks for teaching a noob


Once you get to certain speeds, i believe around 3600mhz, you need N2 for stability. Their performance difference could be measured on geekbench or aida bench to see what was faster. I don't think it is that big of a difference.


----------



## xSneak

encrypted11 said:


> What I was able to get with the Z370 Gaming-ITX/ac awhile ago


That board is weird to me because it can run single rank kits at high frequency, but I couldnt get it to be stable with more than 3700mhz on my dual rank. My asus gene unquestionably booted straight into the 4000mhz xmp settings for ram when I tried it. Yet i struggled for hours trying to get that to boot on the asrock itx. I did get it to boot once at 3900mhz on that board.


----------



## xSneak

What exactly "Maximus Tweak" does in the asus motherboards? My ram is stable when I run it in mode 1 (compatibility mode) yet I dont see it changing any of the primary/secondary/tertiary timings..... Is it changing the skew settings or some of the really obscure settings? 

Also, is there any benefit to changing the skew settings around and at what point should I use it? Like will it allow me to boot to a higher frequency if i cant get it to post on auto settings?


----------



## xSneak

Anyone want to buy this and report back to us what it can do:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232824

:drooling face:


----------



## Silent Scone

xSneak said:


> What exactly "Maximus Tweak" does in the asus motherboards? My ram is stable when I run it in mode 1 (compatibility mode) yet I dont see it changing any of the primary/secondary/tertiary timings..... Is it changing the skew settings or some of the really obscure settings?
> 
> Also, is there any benefit to changing the skew settings around and at what point should I use it? Like will it allow me to boot to a higher frequency if i cant get it to post on auto settings?


The Tweak Modes are predefined presets for memory sub-settings and timings (inc Skew depending on platform). 

Tweak Mode 1 is better for some module compatibility, Mode 2 is better for overclocking/performance. Either can give better results depending on the memory configuration. Beyond the Tweak Modes if having to adjust skew manually then stability is likely too conditional


----------



## xSneak

Silent Scone said:


> The Tweak Modes are predefined presets for memory sub-settings and timings (inc Skew depending on platform).
> 
> Tweak Mode 1 is better for some module compatibility, Mode 2 is better for overclocking/performance. Either can give better results depending on the memory configuration.


I guess I'll have to investigate it. The auto tertiary timings on the xi gene aren't scaling properly with frequency by the way. Had to set trdrd_dg/twrwr_dg to 5 instead of auto 4 when I was running my dual rank kit beyond 4000 mhz. It also seems the twrwr_dr/twrdrd_dr timings need to be increased from 9 (auto) to 10 for 4200mhz on my kit.


----------



## Silent Scone

xSneak said:


> I guess I'll have to investigate it. The auto tertiary timings on the xi gene aren't scaling properly with frequency by the way. Had to set trdrd_dg/twrwr_dg to 5 instead of auto 4 when I was running my dual rank kit beyond 4000 mhz. It also seems the twrwr_dr/twrdrd_dr timings need to be increased from 9 (auto) to 10 for 4200mhz on my kit.


What makes you think that means the auto rules aren't working?


----------



## xSneak

Silent Scone said:


> What makes you think that means the auto rules aren't working?


Well i had to change them to get stability.

MemOk! was putting my SA voltage to 1.40v and my vccio to 1.35v automatically in between boots. Seems to high and it doesn't tell you that it changed them on the splash screen.


----------



## Silent Scone

xSneak said:


> Well i had to change them to get stability.


Ok, well there are a lot of dependencies up that high. Some CPU/configurations need more margin there than others


----------



## Luck100

Can a memory overclock cause WHEA errors like this? Or is it more likely CPU Vcore?


> A corrected hardware error has occurred.
> 
> Reported by component: Processor Core
> Error Source: Corrected Machine Check
> Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error
> Processor APIC ID: 10


----------



## Silent Scone

Vcore / uncore usually.


----------



## ThrashZone

Silent Scone said:


> Vcore / uncore usually.


Hi,
Irony seeing you here seeing you might of removed a referral to this website on asus's forum


----------



## Luck100

Silent Scone said:


> Vcore / uncore usually.


Thanks, it was rather mysterious. Running those settings for weeks with no issues in any stress tests or applications and then stupid Apex Legends starts popping out WHEAs.


----------



## Jpmboy

Luck100 said:


> Can a memory overclock cause WHEA errors like this? Or is it more likely CPU Vcore?


as scone said, most times WHEA (same thing as MCE) is vcore/uncore... but it can be IMC voltage (vccio). cache error can be IO voltage.


----------



## Luck100

Jpmboy said:


> as scone said, most times WHEA (same thing as MCE) is vcore/uncore... but it can be IMC voltage (vccio). cache error can be IO voltage.


Thanks. Not a BSOD WHEA like in your screencap, it's a correctable error (details in my original post). Don't know if that makes a difference in diagnosing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Luck100 said:


> Thanks. Not a BSOD WHEA like in your screencap, it's a correctable error (details in my original post). Don't know if that makes a difference in diagnosing.


a whea occurs when a procedure call checksum(s) do not match, and the processor does a redo to attempt to correct it (leading to reduced efficiency... If it is correctable, you see the report you have (and windows keeps a log of correctable and uncorrectable WHEA/MCE). After several attempts, if the checksums still do/will not match, it is uncorrectable and will bsod. So the most likely fix to correctable errors (assuming the hardware is not physically failing) is voltage tuning like it is uncorectable.


----------



## Silent Scone

4266 on Formula XI 

VCCIO 1.23v
VCCSA 1.26v


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Anyone here have any idea if the 9700k/9900ks IMC is any better than the 8700k? Looking to buy one as I think I'm limited by my 8700k's IMC

Not too sure if the 9900k's IMC would be better than the 9700ks


----------



## wingman99

newfaxwhodis said:


> Anyone here have any idea if the 9700k/9900ks IMC is any better than the 8700k? Looking to buy one as I think I'm limited by my 8700k's IMC
> 
> Not too sure if the 9900k's IMC would be better than the 9700ks


They are the same production specification. Stock maximum of DDR4-2666


----------



## Silent Scone

Any gains to be had will be largely from purchasing the newer gen boards.


----------



## chibi

Silent Scone said:


> Any gains to be had will be largely from purchasing the newer gen boards.


Any update on when the Apex 11 will come to NA?


----------



## Silent Scone

chibi said:


> Any update on when the Apex 11 will come to NA?


You'd have to contact support for the region.


----------



## Silent Scone

Formula XI
4000MHz CAS-16-16-36-2T 1.4V
VCCSA 1.16V
VCCIO 1.14V


----------



## mouacyk

Silent Scone said:


> Formula XI
> 4000MHz CAS-16-16-36-2T 1.4V
> VCCSA 1.16V
> VCCIO 1.14V


damn 32GB even!


----------



## Jidonsu

Someone mentioned that the stress tests don’t pick up on errors if tRFC and tREFI are pushed too far, and that it can lead to OS corruption. Any truth to this? Has it happened to anyone yet?


----------



## mouacyk

Jidonsu said:


> Someone mentioned that the stress tests don’t pick up on errors if tRFC and tREFI are pushed too far, and that it can lead to OS corruption. Any truth to this? Has it happened to anyone yet?


All of my tests (RAMTest, HCI, and GSAT) picked up errors with tRFC and tREFI being too aggressive. Make sure your allocation is high, around or above 90% of installed RAM. Make sure you run for multiple full coverage loops, for a few hours of testing.


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Formula XI
> 4000MHz CAS-16-16-36-2T 1.4V
> VCCSA 1.16V
> VCCIO 1.14V


lookin' good. what sticks are those?


----------



## xSneak

I put a temp sensor on my memory by taping it on the side between the two modules above the chips. It measured low 40s idle and peaked at 61c during karhu ram test. It doesnt throw errors at peak temp, but that seems high. Should i get a small fan to cool the ram or leave it as is?


----------



## jfriend00

xSneak said:


> I put a temp sensor on my memory by taping it on the side between the two modules above the chips. It measured low 40s idle and peaked at 61c during karhu ram test. It doesn't throw errors at peak temp, but that seems high. Should i get a small fan to cool the ram or leave it as is?


I don't think that's a high enough temperature to damage the DRAM chips so if you aren't having stability issues, then you're probably OK as is. 

61C does sound unusually high which I would think indicates a case airflow issue. Mine only get to about 42C when running Karhu RAMTest (as reported by the temperature sensor built into the DIMMs). I'm wondering if you don't have enough general case airflow that runs over the DRAM heat spreaders. Perhaps rather than add a special fan just for the DIMMs, perhaps it's better to just improve your case airflow which would benefit everything.


----------



## xSneak

jfriend00 said:


> I don't think that's a high enough temperature to damage the DRAM chips so if you aren't having stability issues, then you're probably OK as is.
> 
> 61C does sound unusually high which I would think indicates a case airflow issue. Mine only get to about 42C when running Karhu RAMTest (as reported by the temperature sensor built into the DIMMs). I'm wondering if you don't have enough general case airflow that runs over the DRAM heat spreaders. Perhaps rather than add a special fan just for the DIMMs, perhaps it's better to just improve your case airflow which would benefit everything.


The ram test doesnt heat my cpu up that much so the fans are low rpm when it runs. If i had lower temps would i be able to tighten the timings more? I'm not sure how accurate that sensor is. I used a infrared heat sensor gun to measure the temps and on the outside it was like 45c but above the middle of the two dimms it did get to 51c. I've had the sensor for a couple years now.


----------



## jfriend00

xSneak said:


> The ram test doesnt heat my cpu up that much so the fans are low rpm when it runs. If i had lower temps would i be able to tighten the timings more?


Yeah, then that's probably an artificial issue then. Any real load that was hitting the RAM chips that much would probably be using the CPU enough to trigger the fans to run more. When running a long duration ram test, I manually turn my case fans up to avoid that artificial situation. If it were me, I wouldn't be installing new fans for the DIMMs just for that reason as I don't think you'd likely hit that situation in real life. It would be idea if the case fans could trigger off the higher of CPU temp, motherboard temp or DIMM temp, but I've only ever seen them hooked to just one sensor.


----------



## Jpmboy

updated this M11E to bios 0805 and reestablished the OC I had on bios 0602. Ram seems to require much less vsa and vccio set in bios to carry this 32GB kit at 4000c16. That's a good thing. However, the bios update seems to have borked Aura and live dash on my MB. Tried a whole bunch of things ot get Aura and livedash working again... still at it.


----------



## BotSkill

My daily OC on Apex X. Is there something I could improve on timings?


----------



## jfriend00

BotSkill said:


> My daily OC on Apex X. Is there something I could improve on timings?


You can compare to my 4133MHz timings here.

You should compare your AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers to what I had in that post to see if we're in the same ballpark or not.

Some specific differences between our configurations I notice. 

You got CR 1. I couldn't run at 4133 with CR 1.

Your Timing Configurator Screenshot appears to show both DIMMs on the same channel. If that's correct, then that's probably not optimal because you don't get the speed bump from dual channel.

I'm running tWTR_L and tWTR_S and the related tRDWR_* values lower than you are. 

I hand tweaked tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg to be quite a bit lower than yours.

Your tFAW number is so low that it's probably being ignored and corrected by the IMC. I noticed that I saw no performance advantage to lowering it below 45 when tested in AIDA64 memory benchmark.

I got tCWL down to 15.

When I tried to lower my tRTP to 6 like you have it, RAMTest threw errors for me at 776%.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> You can compare to my 4133MHz timings here.
> 
> You should compare your AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers to what I had in that post to see if we're in the same ballpark or not.
> 
> Some specific differences between our configurations I notice.
> 
> You got CR 1. I couldn't run at 4133 with CR 1.
> 
> *Your Timing Configurator Screenshot appears to show both DIMMs on the same channel.* If that's correct, then that's probably not optimal because you don't get the speed bump from dual channel.
> 
> I'm running tWTR_L and tWTR_S and the related tRDWR_* values lower than you are.
> I hand tweaked tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg to be quite a bit lower than yours.
> Your tFAW number is so low that it's probably being ignored and corrected by the IMC. I noticed that I saw no performance advantage to lowering it below 45 when tested in AIDA64 memory benchmark.
> I got tCWL down to 15.
> When I tried to lower my tRTP to 6 like you have it, RAMTest threw errors for me at 776%.


it's a 2 slot board and ATC just reads it that way. it's running dual channel. And I think that is one of the very early bios releases.


----------



## The Pook

Anything glaringly wrong with any of my timings? I only ask because my write speeds are garbage while the rest seem to place about where you'd expect.

I set the primaries and tRFC (because they're the only timings I understand tbh) and copied most of the secondaries off of @jfriend00, but he's getting nearly 20GB/s higher than me in read. 

My RAM will not do 1T () and I tried running 16-17-17-34 and I failed to boot. I might be able to drop to 17-17-17 or 16-18-18 but I haven't given it a go yet. 

I can't boot at 4200 even with super relaxed timings @ >1.5v but I'm assuming my board is the issue there. Currently at 1.45v vDIMM and VSA/VCCIO @ 1.2v.


----------



## jfriend00

The Pook said:


> Anything glaringly wrong with any of my timings? I only ask because my write speeds are garbage while the rest seem to place about where you'd expect.
> 
> I set the primaries and tRFC (because they're the only timings I understand tbh) and copied most of the secondaries off of @jfriend00, but he's getting nearly 20GB/s higher than me in read.
> 
> My RAM will not do 1T () and I tried running 16-17-17-34 and I failed to boot. I might be able to drop to 17-17-17 or 16-18-18 but I haven't given it a go yet.
> 
> I can't boot at 4200 even with super relaxed timings @ >1.5v but I'm assuming my board is the issue there. Currently at 1.45v vDIMM and VSA/VCCIO @ 1.2v.


I also can't boot 4200 at any timings. I think it's a Taichi training issue above 4133 with the RTL and IO-L values. But, I can't figure out how to set those manually on the board to try things as the board offers only one edit field for both the D0 and D1 values and won't accept anything I try there that has two values in it. I've even asked ASRock support about that (who had to ask back to the home office) and got no helpful response back. My theory is that without discovering some hidden way to get some normally trained values to be manually set, one can't go faster than 4133 on Z390 Taichi.

For me, at 4133 my write and copy speeds were in the range of 42000 to 45000 (bad) until I set tWRWR_dg from 6 to 4. That's what finally tipped the scales and got my write and copy speeds to be faster than what I had at 4000MHz. Now, that could have just been the last domino to fall, but you can see all my 4133 timings and AIDA64 performance numbers here if you weren't already going by those.

FYI, I had so much difficulty getting stability and speed at 4133 that, even when I did finally get it faster than 4000) it just seemed like it was so on the ragged edge that I decided that I'd run 24x7 at 4000 instead where stability and speed were easy. The AIDA64 performance number difference between 4133 and 4000 was insignificant. I also need higher DRAM voltage at 4133 so I was happy to use the lower voltage at 4000 too.


----------



## The Pook

jfriend00 said:


> I also can't boot 4200 at any timings. I think it's a Taichi training issue above 4133 with the RTL and IO-L values. But, I can't figure out how to set those manually on the board to try things as the board offers only one edit field for both the D0 and D1 values and won't accept anything I try there that has two values in it. I've even asked ASRock support about that (who had to ask back to the home office) and got no helpful response back. My theory is that without discovering some hidden way to get some normally trained values to be manually set, one can't go faster than 4133 on Z390 Taichi.
> 
> For me, at 4133 my write and copy speeds were in the range of 42000 to 45000 (bad) until I set tWRWR_dg from 6 to 4. That's what finally tipped the scales and got my write and copy speeds to be faster than what I had at 4000MHz. Now, that could have just been the last domino to fall, but you can see all my 4133 timings and AIDA64 performance numbers here if you weren't already going by those.
> 
> FYI, I had so much difficulty getting stability and speed at 4133 that, even when I did finally get it faster than 4000) it just seemed like it was so on the ragged edge that I decided that I'd run 24x7 at 4000 instead where stability and speed were easy. The AIDA64 performance number difference between 4133 and 4000 was insignificant. I also need higher DRAM voltage at 4133 so I was happy to use the lower voltage at 4000 too.



You're a genius! dropping tWRWR_dg to 4 did the trick. :heart:

Auto shows a lower number in the BIOS than what I was seeing in the OS, but setting it manually fixed it up. 

Thanks man! 

4133 works fine for me out of the box without any major issues at reasonable voltage so I'm happy running it. Just wish I could hit CR1.


----------



## jfriend00

The Pook said:


> You're a genius! dropping tWRWR_dg to 4 did the trick. :heart:
> 
> Auto shows a lower number in the BIOS than what I was seeing in the OS, but setting it manually fixed it up.
> 
> Thanks man!
> 
> 4133 works fine for me out of the box without any major issues at reasonable voltage so I'm happy running it. Just wish I could hit CR1.


Wow, can't believe that one key value worked for you too. I guess it's just an auto training that the Taichi messes up at 4133. Cool.


----------



## dNhax

Finally got it stable at 4133 MHz!

It turned out, that my previous timings were not stable as I thought, so I relaxed them a little bit. My CPU was and is stable at 5.1GHz Cores and 4.7GHz Cache. Next up: tighten RTLs and IO-Ls for that sweet latency reduction.

I hope the screenshot may help somebody that tries 32GB RAM overclocks on Z390.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> lookin' good. what sticks are those?


CAS17 4266



CAS 16-16-36 1T 3600

VCCIO 1.085 / VCCSA 1.12


----------



## howling391

How much coverage do you guys test for intermittent errors before you continue your OC with HCImemtest? How about overall stability once you're done OC? I forgot I had my ram testing on and I had 1 error pop up at around 5000% coverage. Is non-ecc memory bound to get errors eventually no matter how stable it is?

Also, which program do you prefer for memory testing at 32gb+? I've only experienced using HCI and was wondering if there are better or more efficient ones out there.


----------



## Silent Scone

howling391 said:


> How much coverage do you guys test for intermittent errors before you continue your OC with HCImemtest? How about overall stability once you're done OC? I forgot I had my ram testing on and I had 1 error pop up at around 5000% coverage. Is non-ecc memory bound to get errors eventually no matter how stable it is?
> 
> Also, which program do you prefer for memory testing at 32gb+? I've only experienced using HCI and was wondering if there are better or more efficient ones out there.


5000% is considerable. If making adjustments between testing I'd recommend using Stress App Test for 1 to 2 hours.

The easy answer would be to say errors are errors. Down to the fabric of all things, if a logic 1 is seen as a 0 then that's corruption. However, there is a point where one needs to evaluate what's sufficient enough for their own use case and what the workload is. For example, if memory stability and data integrity are of the utmost importance, it's arguable that one shouldn't be overclocking.

In this instance, temperature variance under load should be considered after x amount of coverage. Very little (if nothing at all) will be loading the IMC, memory / uncore domains in the way that HCI, Ramtest or Stress App does. If we are speaking of indefinite coverage (especially when overclocking) then there is no certified way of saying with absolute certainty that the memory is unconditionally stable. Certain IC are more susceptible to changes in temperature than others, too. All one can do is a test so that it is sufficiently stable with x coverage that the individual is comfortable with (some users like to leave 24 hours, sometimes more). 

Both Stress App Test and Ramtest have faster coverage and find errors quicker than HCI, assuming the errors are not occurring at cache interaction. If time is an issue, with the coverage time you have the other option is to relax CAS by one clock.


----------



## jfriend00

howling391 said:


> How much coverage do you guys test for intermittent errors before you continue your OC with HCImemtest? How about overall stability once you're done OC? I forgot I had my ram testing on and I had 1 error pop up at around 5000% coverage. Is non-ecc memory bound to get errors eventually no matter how stable it is?
> 
> Also, which program do you prefer for memory testing at 32gb+? I've only experienced using HCI and was wondering if there are better or more efficient ones out there.


Non-ecc memory should not get errors in 5000% if properly stable. Losing a bit of memory is a real problem to nearly all apps (except maybe a game or some types of data manipulation like video or photo where a bit might not be noticed) and computers would have all sorts of problems if that was a regular occurrence. So, that is not to be expected and is not to be accepted as normal.

That said, running very long memory tests may actually create their own somewhat artificial issues. For example, I've seen situations where a long memory test never raises the CPU core temp very high and thus the case fans aren't every running very much, but meanwhile the memory test is hammering on the DRAM chips over and over and they start to get hot enough that they may be more likely to see errors. But, any real app is either not that likely to hammer memory that hard or, if it does, it's also using enough CPU to warm up the CPU and trigger your fans to run more and thus the RAM sticks get better cooling. For this reason, when I run a really long memory test, I manually set my case fans to full speed to avoid any artificial heating situation that probably wouldn't occur in the real world.

FYI, if you actually delve into what the dozens of memory timings that control DDR4 memory actually do and mean, you start to understand that there are hundreds of thousands of permutations or memory access sequences that would be needed to thoroughly test every possible memory timing value for every memory chip in your DIMMs. For that reason, I've decided that at least an 8 hour overnight test is needed to start to feel comfortable with any given configuration (for a 16GB set). And, for 32GB, I'd double that. I know there are people out there that think I'm crazy (there are multiple opinions on this topic), but that's how I think of it. Because memory errors are not often seen immediately, they can wreak havoc with apps, leading to important data corruption, even file system corruption. So, for me, I want to do pretty rigorous testing to reduce the chance that I have a configuration that could cause memory corruption.

I don't know how the HCI MemTest percentages scale because I use Karhu's RAMTest where I'm looking for an overnight test that results in about 30,000% coverage.


----------



## howling391

~5000% coverage took about 3 days straight with HCI @ 1825 x 16 instances with 2x16gb sticks. 

Roughly how much of a temperature variance can cause problems? I had hwinfo running the whole time and the min and max temps for both sticks was between 45-47.5C during testing. The only thing in regards to temperatures for ram was the max safe temps for DDR4, but now I'm curious if there is such thing as an ideal sweet spot for temps with ram.


----------



## The Pook

just like any electrical component I'd imagine - as low as possible (without going below the dew point). my old GeIL 3600 @ 1.45v without a heatspreader never saw over 45c and mostly stayed under 35c though.


----------



## jfriend00

howling391 said:


> ~5000% coverage took about 3 days straight with HCI @ 1825 x 16 instances with 2x16gb sticks.
> 
> Roughly how much of a temperature variance can cause problems? I had hwinfo running the whole time and the min and max temps for both sticks was between 45-47.5C during testing. The only thing in regards to temperatures for ram was the max safe temps for DDR4, but now I'm curious if there is such thing as an ideal sweet spot for temps with ram.


That's a very long test. 

There's no absolute sweet spot. The lower the temps the better (which is true for CPUs too).

I've seen it written that DRAM with tight timings definitely does better when cooler and that things like leakage current are affected by even mild temperatures (like 40-45C). Thus you either have to make sure your DIMMs don't heat up much beyond where you've done most your testing or you have to make sure your timings are OK when the DIMMs do heat up. With proper case airflow, my DIMMs don't get above 42C on an overnight test with a 21C ambient. Keep in mind, we're not talking about temperatures where the semiconductors don't work properly here (like we would be with the extreme core temperatures of a hot CPU overclock). We're talking about perfectly safe (for the semiconductor transistors) temperatures, but where minor properties of the transistors/capacitors vary slightly with temperatures and can influence a major overclock with very tight timings.

I'm under the impression that a "typical" XMP DRAM configuration has so much safety margin built in that DIMM temps aren't generally an issue at all. But, when people are pushing to an extreme memory overclock, they can be relevant. I've seen at least one user here who said that his overclock wasn't stable above 40C so he put a DRAM fan pointed at them inside the case to keep them cooler than that. Keep in mind that isn't a property of the memory chips, but is apparently a characteristic of the overclock he was running.

For reasons like this, I try to put a bit of safety margin in my memory overclock. For example, I am able to run my DRAM at 16-18-18-37 @ 4133MHz and 1.50V, but it's so difficult to maintain stability that it just seemed like it was always on the ragged edge and I feared it might be susceptible to things like errors if the temperature got a little higher. So, I backed off to 15-17-17-37 @ 4000MHz, 1.45V which is so much easier to keep stable when tweaking and seems to have headroom. The AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers for these two profiles are with a few percent of each other too so I wasn't losing much by backing off to a safer profile.

So, it's possible that your overclock is perfectly fine with normal DRAM temps of 40C, but one memory chip gets real close to the edge (for your overclock timings) at 47C. This is, of course, just a theory. It's hard to know for sure unless you can set up a repeatable test and then compare the test under different DIMM temperatures. As I said earlier, I bet you wouldn't have gotten to 47C with better case airflow during your test because DIMMs don't use that many watts and thus are pretty easy to cool with some constant airflow through the case and across the DIMMs.


----------



## Silent Scone

Short version without the half baked science would be most b-die likes to be kept below 45C.


----------



## jfriend00

Silent Scone said:


> Short version without the half baked science would be most b-die likes to be kept below 45C.


But, you just made up that number. There's no more magic about 45C, than there is about 42C or 48C. There's more to it than a single number that somehow magically applies to all Samsung B-die overclocks. There are people who say they are stable at 40C and not stable at 42C. But, my overclock is perfectly stable at higher temps than that. It's not as simple as one number.

If you're pushing timings as far as you can go and thus to the edge of stability, then you may have some temperature sensitivity and you need to test your overclock in the same temperature range as you plan to use it to know whether your overclock will be stable in your real world uses. If you test it at hotter temperatures than you will actually use it, you may find issues that won't affect you in the real world. If you only test it at lower temperatures than it might get used in, then you may not find issues that do affect you in the real world.

I don't believe one can say that below 45C you are immune to any temperature sensitivity if you have pushed your overclock to the edge. Samsung B-die has been shown to perform better the cooler it is all the way down to 20C. So, you either test in the same temperature range as you will use it or you don't overclock right up to the edge of stability and thus gain some safety margin for temperature sensitivity.


----------



## KedarWolf

@Jpmboy

Do you think the CL16 Trident Z non-RGB CL16 3600 4x8GB kit is the way to go for a 9900k?

I can get it really cheap from newegg.ca for $524 CAD plus tax. 

If not, what would you suggest for 4x8GB G.Skill?


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> Do you think the CL16 Trident Z non-RGB CL16 3600 4x8GB kit is the way to go for a 9900k?
> 
> I can get it really cheap from newegg.ca for $524 CAD plus tax.
> 
> If not, what would you suggest for 4x8GB G.Skill?



I'm not jpmboy, but my Trident Z is great. I was between the 3600 CL15 and a 4133 CL19 kit and ended up getting the 4133 and have been super happy with it. Does better timings than my old 3600 kit while being ~400mhz faster 

Though I went with 8x2, so maybe things are different on the 8x4 front... but I'd imagine it's the same story in different pants.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> Do you think the CL16 Trident Z non-RGB CL16 3600 4x8GB kit is the way to go for a 9900k?
> 
> I can get it really cheap from newegg.ca for $524 CAD plus tax.
> 
> If not, what would you suggest for 4x8GB G.Skill?


what the price up there for 2 3600c15 trident kits? I run a pair on x299 at 4000c16 and another pair on z390/9700K at 4000c16 also... they do 4266c17 at 1.45V gsat stable. I also have a 4x8GB 3600c16 kit that runs the same on z390 (M11E). A 4400c19 2x8GB kit I have can run higher dual channel freqs than the 3600c15 kits, but it can;t handle silly things like 4133c12 as well. I'll get another 4x8 mix to try on this Omega that came today. but ya ever know when mixing kits. "ram is like a box of chocolates" :laughings


----------



## howling391

What's your preferred method of tuning your VCCIO/VCCSA? I always start at 1.20v for both and run p95 512k-4096k with 90% ram set overnight and increase/decrease voltage for IO/SA if its stable/unstable.


----------



## Jpmboy

howling391 said:


> What's your preferred method of tuning your VCCIO/VCCSA? *I always start at 1.20v* for both and run p95 512k-4096k with 90% ram set overnight and increase/decrease voltage for IO/SA if its stable/unstable.


hopefully that is not for HEDT platforms also...


----------



## ThrashZone

KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> Do you think the CL16 Trident Z non-RGB CL16 3600 4x8GB kit is the way to go for a 9900k?
> 
> I can get it really cheap from newegg.ca for $524 CAD plus tax.
> 
> If not, what would you suggest for 4x8GB G.Skill?





CptSpig said:


> I have this kit: F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK same spec's as the sw. You have seen my overclock but here is a screen shot in the spoiler below.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Hi,
I asked about the same thing and CptSpig had those too if 16-16-16-36 timings 3600C16
Verified with b-die app 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...el-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread-830.html


----------



## Silent Scone

jfriend00 said:


> But, you just made up that number. There's no more magic about 45C, than there is about 42C or 48C. There's more to it than a single number that somehow magically applies to all Samsung B-die overclocks. There are people who say they are stable at 40C and not stable at 42C. But, my overclock is perfectly stable at higher temps than that. It's not as simple as one number.
> 
> If you're pushing timings as far as you can go and thus to the edge of stability, then you may have some temperature sensitivity and you need to test your overclock in the same temperature range as you plan to use it to know whether your overclock will be stable in your real world uses. If you test it at hotter temperatures than you will actually use it, you may find issues that won't affect you in the real world. If you only test it at lower temperatures than it might get used in, then you may not find issues that do affect you in the real world.
> 
> I don't believe one can say that below 45C you are immune to any temperature sensitivity if you have pushed your overclock to the edge. Samsung B-die has been shown to perform better the cooler it is all the way down to 20C. So, you either test in the same temperature range as you will use it or you don't overclock right up to the edge of stability and thus gain some safety margin for temperature sensitivity.


Anyone of a sound mind would realize there are dependencies, but below 45C is preferable. The above are the same ideals that cause you to test memory for days . Around 45C is often the tipping point with b-die, but, if you haven't tested memory a great deal in the last few years you can't be expected to know that.


----------



## howling391

Jpmboy said:


> hopefully that is not for HEDT platforms also...



P95 always gave me rounding errors if I ran blend below 1.2v with my 8700k/9900k with my 2x16 sticks so it's been my baseline.


----------



## jfriend00

Silent Scone said:


> Anyone of a sound mind would realize there are dependencies, but below 45C is preferable. The above are the same ideals that cause you to test memory for days . Around 45C is often the tipping point with b-die, but, if you haven't tested memory a great deal in the last few years you can't be expected to know that.


If you want to insist there's some magic temperature threshold below which everything is OK, go right ahead. 

I choose to believe that semi-conductor properties that are relevant to how memory works perform along a temperature curve that has no big cliff around 45C so where exactly the curve affects you depends upon how close to the edge your settings are. For some really, really tight settings where you really pushed things or one chip on the DIMM that isn't as good as the others you can easily run into problems well below 45C or for some very loose settings, you can probably go way higher than that.

I do think it's relevant to make sure that any long running memory test you do doesn't push your RAM temps to places that it won't normally get in the real world because if you're really pushing your timings, you may find an issue that's mostly artificial (due to the situation of the test) that wouldn't occur in normal use. 

Keeping your DIMMs at a predictable and moderate temperature is fairly easy as long as you have semi-decent case airflow. There are cases where people have case fans set to trigger off CPU core temps (not uncommon) and then they run a multi-hour DRAM test and the CPU cores don't get hot enough to bump up the case fans and then their DIMMs get hotter than they probably would in a real world situation. That can create an artificial problem.


----------



## wingman99

Silent Scone said:


> Anyone of a sound mind would realize there are dependencies, but below 45C is preferable. The above are the same ideals that cause you to test memory for days . Around 45C is often the tipping point with b-die, but, if you haven't tested memory a great deal in the last few years you can't be expected to know that.


I don't have any trouble with my B-die at 50c.


----------



## Silent Scone

wingman99 said:


> I don't have any trouble with my B-die at 50c.


I wouldn't have expected a lack of understanding from that statement. Perhaps we can start assuming everything stops working 



jfriend00 said:


> I do think it's relevant to make sure that any long running memory test you do doesn't push your RAM temps to places that it won't normally get in the real world because if you're really pushing your timings, you may find an issue that's mostly artificial (due to the situation of the test) that wouldn't occur in normal use.
> 
> Keeping your DIMMs at a predictable and moderate temperature is fairly easy as long as you have semi-decent case airflow. There are cases where people have case fans set to trigger off CPU core temps (not uncommon) and then they run a multi-hour DRAM test and the CPU cores don't get hot enough to bump up the case fans and then their DIMMs get hotter than they probably would in a real world situation. That can create an artificial problem.


This was covered on the previous page before you engaged in the conversation.



jfriend00 said:


> If you want to insist there's some magic temperature threshold below which everything is OK, go right ahead.
> 
> I choose to believe that semi-conductor properties that are relevant to how memory works perform along a temperature curve that has no big cliff around 45C so where exactly the curve affects you depends upon how close to the edge your settings are. For some really, really tight settings where you really pushed things or one chip on the DIMM that isn't as good as the others you can easily run into problems well below 45C or for some very loose settings, you can probably go way higher than that.


This is the same as your previous statement but worded differently.

It's not that black and white, which is how you've perceived quite a lot of things so far in this thread. There's no real cliff when it comes to module temperature, however, there is a preference to keep DIMM temperatures low, or else yes, it can eat into the applied overclocks margin. You're talking as if I'm implying there are no other dependencies other than this. 

There's a great piece by Raja on impedance over at ROG. https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57715-Overclocking-Tips-Part-Two


----------



## Silent Scone

Formula XI 
2x8GB

4000 C16-17 2T

VCCSA 1.18v VCCIO 1.15v


----------



## jfriend00

Silent Scone said:


> It's not that black and white, which is how you've perceived quite a lot of things so far in this thread. There's no real cliff when it comes to module temperature, however, there is a preference to keep DIMM temperatures low, or else yes, it can eat into the applied overclocks margin.


Now, it appears you're backtracking from what you said (which is OK). 

I responded to EXACTLY what you said when you said *"Around 45C is often the tipping point with b-die"*. And, i called foul on that. You yourself labeled it as a "tipping point" and wrote it as if it applies to all or most b-die. 

I think we both know there is no general tipping point. Some overclocks fail at 41C, some are still fine at 50C. If you're ready to stop on this point, I will too.

We both agree that cooler is better.


----------



## Silent Scone

jfriend00 said:


> Now, it appears you're backtracking from what you said (which is OK).
> 
> I responded to EXACTLY what you said when you said *"Around 45C is often the tipping point with b-die"*. And, i called foul on that. You yourself labeled it as a "tipping point" and wrote it as if it applies to all or most b-die.
> 
> I think we both know there is no general tipping point. Some overclocks fail at 41C, some are still fine at 50C. If you're ready to stop on this point, I will too.
> 
> We both agree that cooler is better.


So you did assume that to mean that every overclock would become unstable when modules exceeded 45C? That's not a reasonable assumption lol, especially since I'd already clarified this in a previous post. 



Silent Scone said:


> Anyone of a sound mind would realize there are dependencies, but below 45C is preferable.


Perhaps I should have chosen my words more wisely, but it's not backtracking. I'd still recommend keeping b-die below this temperature where possible. Keeping module temps down isn't a challenge, either. Even without active airflow. I'd also still recommend you read the link provided.


----------



## mouacyk

@jfriend00 Can you share sa/vccio voltages and an asrock timing screencap of your 15-17-17 setting please? Thanks.


----------



## jfriend00

mouacyk said:


> @jfriend00 Can you share sa/vccio voltages and an asrock timing screencap of your 15-17-17 setting please? Thanks.


Info for 4000MHz is here. 

Same sticks at 4133MHz are here.


----------



## xSneak

Lol. I just found out that the trrdrd_dg and twrwr_dg timings are more consequential for performance than all of the secondary timings that I was tuning.... I should have listened to raja's advice. 

tRDRD: Sets the delay between consecutive read requests to the same page. From a performance perspective, this setting is best kept at 4 clocks. Relax only if the memory is not stable or the system will not POST. *Very few memory modules can handle a setting of 4 clocks at speeds above DDR3-2400 so you may need to relax accordingly, although the performance hit may negate any gains in frequency.*


----------



## kignt

GAST 2 hours
2x8gb 4400 c19-20 2T, tRFC: 352
(bios) Vdimm 1.470v, IO/SA: 1.24v/1.29v, cold boot: ok
z370 taichi, bios: p3.20


other: my previous post with tighter secondaries that passed 2hrs karhu-cache and hci did not pass GSAT. It took loosening some secondaries. Some GSAT fails occurred 50min in. Cold boot included PSU switched off (O) and waiting maybe a minute. Trying to avoid post code 55.


----------



## xSneak

kignt said:


> GAST 2 hours
> 2x8gb 4400 c19-20 2T, tRFC: 352
> (bios) Vdimm 1.470v, IO/SA: 1.24v/1.29v, cold boot: ok
> z370 taichi, bios: p3.20
> 
> 
> other: my previous post with tighter secondaries that passed 2hrs karhu-cache and hci did not pass GSAT. It took loosening some secondaries. Some GSAT fails occurred 50min in. Cold boot included PSU switched off (O) and waiting maybe a minute. Trying to avoid post code 55.


Those timings look really good. Is that really 3200Mhz binned ram???


----------



## kignt

xSneak said:


> Those timings look really good. Is that really 3200Mhz binned ram???


IDK about binned. Just got it second hand off ebay...


----------



## Abaidor

After having overclocked my 7940X @ 4.8 all cores I think it's time to jump on the memory overclocking wagon..

I have a 64GB Kit (4X 16GB) of G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C17-16GTZR (17-19-19-39) currently running at XMP on my Rampage VI Extreme. I have not tried overclocking it since I focused on the CPU first but I was wondering if I can get some extra performance out of it. With that said, high memory speeds on the Rampage VI do not seem to be easy especially with 64GB or more ram. 

I am really noob when it comes to memory timings and settings so I don't even know where to begin and what to expect. Most importantly before I begin trials I would like to know whether it is worth it. Has anyone successfully overclocked this kit and on what platform?


----------



## Aurosonic

*Stability from boot to boot*

I have some issues with system stability which fluctuates from boot to boot. I can pass all possible stress tests one day, and completely fails all the tests on the next day with absolutely same settings.
I'm on Apex XI bios 0231. What could be the issue ?


----------



## Silent Scone

Formula XI

3700 CAS 16-16-36 1T 1.4V

VCCIO 1.13 / VCCSA 1.15


----------



## Nizzen

Silent Scone said:


> Formula XI
> 
> 3700 CAS 16-16-36 1T 1.4V
> 
> VCCIO 1.13 / VCCSA 1.15


Can you please post aida memtest, too see bandwidth and latency. You have some good results with you're 4266 c17 sticks


----------



## The Pook

Aurosonic said:


> I have some issues with system stability which fluctuates from boot to boot. I can pass all possible stress tests one day, and completely fails all the tests on the next day with absolutely same settings.
> I'm on Apex XI bios 0231. What could be the issue ?



Memory training probably. Take all timings and subtimings off auto and set them manually.

DDR4 4133 17-18-18-34 2T, 9900K @ stock, 1.43v vDIMM 1.20v VCCIO/SA. 

Won't do 1T at 4133, tempted to try 1T at ~3866 with tighter timings and see if it helps any but for now I'm happy.


----------



## Jpmboy

So I picked upi a cheapo 4x8GB 3200c16 hyperX kit (sk hynix) to use for a gift build for one of the family. What a struggle just to get these to run at 3466 and 3600 (when a g.skill 3600c16 kit was basically plug and play for 4000c16 on the same Max11Extreme board). No voltyage scaling, poor RTL/IOL alignment. well... ya get what ya pay for.


----------



## Telstar

Aurosonic said:


> I have some issues with system stability which fluctuates from boot to boot. I can pass all possible stress tests one day, and completely fails all the tests on the next day with absolutely same settings.
> I'm on Apex XI bios 0231. What could be the issue ?


Isn't that an old bios?


----------



## Aurosonic

Telstar said:


> Isn't that an old bios?



It is , but same happens on the latest 0805


----------



## wingman99

Aurosonic said:


> I have some issues with system stability which fluctuates from boot to boot. I can pass all possible stress tests one day, and completely fails all the tests on the next day with absolutely same settings.
> I'm on Apex XI bios 0231. What could be the issue ?


Check to see if any secondary timings change after booting and it fails all tests. Post back what you find.


----------



## Fraizer

Hi

to oc the cpu cache of my 9900k do i need like oc memory playing with VCCIO and VSA ?

to stability test the cache (my memory 32gb 4x8gb sticks is already oc at 4133mhz cas 16) do i need to run an memory stability test ? or an cpu stability test ?


----------



## xSneak

Fraizer said:


> Hi
> 
> to oc the cpu cache of my 9900k do i need like oc memory playing with VCCIO and VSA ?
> 
> to stability test the cache (my memory 32gb 4x8gb sticks is already oc at 4133mhz cas 16) do i need to run an memory stability test ? or an cpu stability test ?



Cpu cache uses the same power as cpu cores, so you only have to change cpu vcore. In my experience, you can't detect unstable cpu cache through memory stress test programs. I found i would crash in games when the cache was unstable. Maybe theres a different program that can test for stability better than ram testing software.


----------



## ESRCJ

Any advice for cases where you get instability very late like this? A few of you were discussing dimm temperatures. Mine get to about 50C. For reference, these are from a Trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 kit.

Relevant voltages: 1.42vdimm, VCCIO and VCCSA set to auto (roughly 1.02V and 0.85V), uncore offset set to auto (roughly 0.49V). I've played around with all of these manually and increasing each does nothing for stability. Same goes for vcore. Sitting at a stable 4.7GHz at 1.22V.


----------



## Silent Scone

gridironcpj said:


> Any advice for cases where you get instability very late like this? A few of you were discussing dimm temperatures. Mine get to about 50C. For reference, these are from a Trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 kit.
> 
> Relevant voltages: 1.42vdimm, VCCIO and VCCSA set to auto (roughly 1.02V and 0.85V), uncore offset set to auto (roughly 0.49V). I've played around with all of these manually and increasing each does nothing for stability. Same goes for vcore. Sitting at a stable 4.7GHz at 1.22V.


Raise tWCL by one or two clocks. 

Regarding temps, only one way to find out. Use active airflow and see if you can pass consistently. As a test, it will be fairly indicative of the above conversation as margins will be tight at those speeds.


----------



## Jpmboy

still working on this:


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> still working on this:


Nice


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Nice


that write sped is bugging me... any ideas?


----------



## mouacyk

gridironcpj said:


> Any advice for cases where you get instability very late like this? A few of you were discussing dimm temperatures. Mine get to about 50C. For reference, these are from a Trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 kit.
> 
> Relevant voltages: 1.42vdimm, VCCIO and VCCSA set to auto (roughly 1.02V and 0.85V), uncore offset set to auto (roughly 0.49V). I've played around with all of these manually and increasing each does nothing for stability. Same goes for vcore. Sitting at a stable 4.7GHz at 1.22V.


Have you tried taking tRP back up to 17? Another thing to look at is upping tRFC and/or lowering tREFI. From my experience, late errors like this are likely corruption due to insufficient refreshing. Probably the first and easiest thing to do is as Silent Scone mentioned, and eliminate the simplest variable. I've had temp-induced corruption on 4x8GB of DDR3 at 2666MHz, but they cleared up after pointing a fan at the modules.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> that write sped is bugging me... any ideas?


Can either tWR or tCWL go any lower? Your tertiaries are differently labeled than most so I can quite see how to compare them.


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Can either tWR or tCWL go any lower? Your tertiaries are differently labeled than most so I can quite see how to compare them.


yeah, i tried wr and cwl already... unstable from 12 up to the numbers shown. The R6EO is an 8 slot board, so things like rtl may be a bit "long". 3rds are different? Same as x299 apex...


----------



## jfriend00

gridironcpj said:


> Any advice for cases where you get instability very late like this? A few of you were discussing dimm temperatures. Mine get to about 50C. For reference, these are from a Trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 kit.
> 
> Relevant voltages: 1.42vdimm, VCCIO and VCCSA set to auto (roughly 1.02V and 0.85V), uncore offset set to auto (roughly 0.49V). I've played around with all of these manually and increasing each does nothing for stability. Same goes for vcore. Sitting at a stable 4.7GHz at 1.22V.


First, I would seriously examine your case airflow because 50C for your DIMMs implies that there just isn't much outside air flowing any where near your DIMMs. If you have any sort of temperature probe or can get one, it would be worth seeing if your air temperature near your DIMMs keeps going up and up as you run things too. It doesn't seem like you should get above low 40s with semi-decent case airflow. As I've mentioned in other portions of this thread, sometimes you get an issue running memory tests where the case airflow is triggered by CPU temps, but with just a memory test, the CPU temps don't get high enough to trigger your case fans to get up the fan curve and this creates an artificially high (not very likely to occur in a real application) temperature situation.

Second, 3860% isn't really that high a percentage for RAMTest. According to their web site site, you're just getting past 98% statistical point at that point. I've regularly seen failures in the 3000-4000% range. 

Third, if you do indeed have a temperature sensitivity issue and your DRAM chips keep getting hotter during the test, then you can investigate improving your case airflow to keep your DRAM chips from heating up during your test. With semi-decent case air flow, you should easily be able to keep your DRAM chips in the low 40s. One simple thing you can do is to start another memory test and then look at what speed the case fans are running at. If they're on a really low speed, then you can manually turn them up and then run the same memory test and see what temperature your DIMMs get to. If they stay in the low 40s that way, then it could be as simple a fix as changing the fan curve for your case fans to adjust when they hit higher speeds. If that doesn't help with the DIMM temps, then you probably need to work on your case airflow.

Fourth, my supposition in the previous part of this thread talking about temperatures was that some temperature sensitivity with DIMMs is caused by being close enough to the edge with your memory timings that the small delta in semi-conductor properties due to the memory chips heating up can push you over the edge of stability. The theory is that that can be addressed by either avoiding the temperature increase or by not pushing your overclock as close to the edge.

As for your timings compared to my tight timings at 4000MHz, your tCWL is lower than I could push mine while retaining stability. You can try bumping it up to 13 and your tRP is lower than I could push mine. You can try bumping it up to 17.

But, you're running at a command rate of 1 and I'm at 2 so perhaps they aren't directly comparable (I don't know).

Your tertiaries have different labels in MemTweakIt than mine in ASRock Timing Configurator so I can quite figure out how to compare those.

I have some other differences in voltages for tight timings at 4000MHz:

VDIMM: 1.45V
VCCIO: 1.18V
VCCSA: 1.18V

But, these may be related to the rest of the overall system and it sounds like you already investigated them.


----------



## howling391

@*jfriend00
*


What do your VCCIO/VCCSA report in hwinfo? Mine reports roughly 0.06v higher than what I've set in bios during testing/gaming and I assume the hwinfo reading is the correct one.


Edit: My mobo is M X Hero(Z370) and it's quite surprising how much higher it is in hwinfo.


----------



## jfriend00

howling391 said:


> What do your VCCIO/VCCSA report in hwinfo? Mine reports roughly 0.06v higher than what I've set in bios during testing/gaming and I assume the hwinfo reading is the correct one.


With both VCCIO and VCCSA set to 1.180V in the BIOS, HWiNFO64 shows me this:

VCCIO 1.192V
VCCSA 1.200V

My board is an ASRock Z390 Taichi.


----------



## wingman99

xSneak said:


> Cpu cache uses the same power as cpu cores, so you only have to change cpu vcore. In my experience, you can't detect unstable cpu cache through memory stress test programs. I found i would crash in games when the cache was unstable. Maybe theres a different program that can test for stability better than ram testing software.


Core voltage is for all the core components including L1-L2 cache. Vccio is for (memory controller, shared cache =L3 cache)=Uncore ratio. 

Vccio (memory controller, shared cache)/Vccsa (system agent) at page 129.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...cessor-family-s-platform-datasheet-vol-1.html


----------



## CptSpig

Playing with my cashe read write up a couple GB/s this CL16 kit is pretty good.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> that write sped is bugging me... any ideas?


How far can you push uncore?


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> How far can you push uncore?


 uncore or cache?
cache is at 30 with 1.0V. Uncore voltage offset is stock (+.450 i believe). I'm convinced it's a ram timing issue. I gotta spend some time tonight tuning down the voltage (looks like 4.7 is good at 1.225V). 4.8 may be within reach without exceeding 80C on any core.


----------



## ESRCJ

Thanks for the suggestions folks. All repped! I actually had basically zero airflow on the memory modules. Currently just testing things out with my case basically naked and only one rad for the CPU. I pointed the rear exhaust fan towards the memory modules and they are between 36-40C now, with the furthest one from the fan being at 40C. I will test the same timings as before and see if the temps make a difference. 

@Jpmboy Were you able to get 4000MHz very far in RamTest? What kit are you using?

Update: I tried the same settings as previously and I got an error beyond 3000% again, so the temps are not the issue in my case. I'm now trying again, but with tWCL at 14. I will increase tREFI if this does not work.


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> Thanks for the suggestions folks. All repped! I actually had basically zero airflow on the memory modules. Currently just testing things out with my case basically naked and only one rad for the CPU. I pointed the rear exhaust fan towards the memory modules and they are between 36-40C now, with the furthest one from the fan being at 40C. I will test the same timings as before and see if the temps make a difference.
> 
> @*Jpmboy* Were you able to get 4000MHz very far in RamTest? What kit are you using?


using a 4x8GB 3600c16 kit. I ran 2 hours of GSAT and the ramtest above... stable enough to begin dialing back voltages on core etc... not done yet. I'll get back to ram and see if I can fix that low write speed. I do like seeing 120K read speeds on a 10 core cpu tho.


----------



## ESRCJ

Jpmboy said:


> using a 4x8GB 3600c16 kit. I ran 2 hours of GSAT and the ramtest above... stable enough to begin dialing back voltages on core etc... not done yet. I'll get back to ram and see if I can fix that low write speed. I do like seeing 120K read speeds on a 10 core cpu tho.


Is the 9000 series 10-core on the HCC die? Or is it LCC die like the 7000 series? The reason I ask is because the cut-down HCC parts (12,14,16) all had lacking write speed, but improved as the core count increased. 

I managed to find a stable memory OC with a 4000MHz frequency. I had tCL at 16, but I hit an error in-between 5000 and 6000 percent coverage. Increasing it to 17 pushed me to what I would consider to be stable. I'm going to see if I can tighten any of these secondary timings. All tertiary timings are set to auto. By the way, I'm not sure why CPU-Z is reporting a core voltage of 1.272V, considering I have it set to 1.22V.


----------



## Pedropc

The best thing I've achieved with Aida64 has been this, greetings.


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> Is the 9000 series 10-core on the HCC die? Or is it LCC die like the 7000 series? The reason I ask is because the cut-down HCC parts (12,14,16) all had lacking write speed, but improved as the core count increased.
> 
> I managed to find a stable memory OC with a 4000MHz frequency. I had tCL at 16, but I hit an error in-between 5000 and 6000 percent coverage. Increasing it to 17 pushed me to what I would consider to be stable. I'm going to see if I can tighten any of these secondary timings. All tertiary timings are set to auto. By the way, I'm not sure why CPU-Z is reporting a core voltage of 1.272V, considering I have it set to 1.22V.


thanks. I have a total of 30 min keyboard time on this rig for ram at this point. The system was up for less that 2 hours at that point... hence the "quick OC". I'll be back at it soon tho.


----------



## ESRCJ

Jpmboy said:


> gridironcpj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the 9000 series 10-core on the HCC die? Or is it LCC die like the 7000 series? The reason I ask is because the cut-down HCC parts (12,14,16) all had lacking write speed, but improved as the core count increased.
> 
> I managed to find a stable memory OC with a 4000MHz frequency. I had tCL at 16, but I hit an error in-between 5000 and 6000 percent coverage. Increasing it to 17 pushed me to what I would consider to be stable. I'm going to see if I can tighten any of these secondary timings. All tertiary timings are set to auto. By the way, I'm not sure why CPU-Z is reporting a core voltage of 1.272V, considering I have it set to 1.22V.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks. I have a total of 30 min keyboard time on this rig for ram at this point. The system was up for less that 2 hours at that point... hence the "quick OC". I'll be back at it soon tho. /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
Click to expand...

Looking forward to what you're able to push on the memory OC with the Omega!


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> Looking forward to what you're able to push on the memory OC with the Omega!


if you have not already, you may want to enable "turnaround time optimization" - it will do a better job with the RTLs if you do not set these manually


----------



## Jpmboy

Pedropc said:


> The best thing I've achieved with Aida64 has been this, greetings.


yeah, I can get 4200 to boot on this 3600 and run ramtest for 20-40% then it errors out (no matter what voltages I feed it).


----------



## nick name

Hey Intel guys -- does anyone have a 3600CL15 kit? I'm curious to know what Intel CPUs can do with the timings. With Ryzen -- 3600MHz seems to be the limit for 14-15-14-14 for most and some select few can run 3600MHz 14-14-14-14. I can run 3666MHz at 14-15-14-14, but slower subs so that don't really seem worth it. I can almost get 3740MHz stable, but with DRAM voltage above 1.5V so I don't bother.

I am asking because I saw in previous posts many go for higher speeds and looser timings so with my limitations I was curious to know what timings you beautiful people can do at 3600MHz. 

Also, I'm sorry to intrude on you fine folks simply to satisfy my own curiosity.


----------



## Pedropc

To me the RAM Test holds this to 4200 CL17. A greeting.


----------



## Jpmboy

Pedropc said:


> To me the RAM Test holds this to 4200 CL17. A greeting.


 Very nice! yeah, I only have one of those 4400c19 kits, which I run at 4500 on a z370 apex. 

Shame to under clock them to 4200 like that.


----------



## Pedropc

Jpmboy said:


> Very nice! yeah, I only have one of those 4400c19 kits, which I run at 4500 on a z370 apex.
> 
> Shame to under clock them to 4200 like that.


Thanks, the truth is that these kit 4400 are going very well, greetings.


----------



## Aurosonic

My 24/7 daily 4600CL17


----------



## mouacyk

Aurosonic said:


> My 24/7 daily 4600CL17


Nice. That latency is awesome... eDRAM territory and you got 16GB off it. 

What is the stock kit?


----------



## Aurosonic

mouacyk said:


> Nice. That latency is awesome... eDRAM territory and you got 16GB off it.
> 
> What is the stock kit?


G.Skill F4-4600C18D-16GTZR


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> Nice. That latency is awesome... eDRAM territory and you got 16GB off it.
> 
> What is the stock kit?


 yeah, post lacking the cpuz spd tab
at least they are not the $500 2x8GB "GTR_" sticks.


----------



## xSneak

Aurosonic said:


> My 24/7 daily 4600CL17


1.34v cpu system agent. is that safe for daily usage?


----------



## Aurosonic

xSneak said:


> 1.34v cpu system agent. is that safe for daily usage?


Raja and Websmile considered <1.35 safe for daily


----------



## Aurosonic

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, post lacking the cpuz spd tab
> at least they are not the $500 2x8GB "GTR_" sticks.


spd tab shows empty to me somehow. Maybe cpu-z issue


----------



## mouacyk

Aurosonic said:


> Raja and Websmile considered <1.35 safe for daily


I read those guides as well and used 1.25v SA/VCCIO on an 8700K for many months with 4266MHz TridentZ's at 17-18-18. One day, I had to up my 8700K vCore from 1.315v to 1.376v to maintain stability at 5GHz. So, I'm sticking to 1.15v SA/VCCIO on this 9900K.


----------



## Jpmboy

Aurosonic said:


> spd tab shows empty to me somehow. Maybe cpu-z issue


IN the dropdown on the SPD tab, just select a populated channel (or Slot as they call it). :thumb:


----------



## Aurosonic

Jpmboy said:


> IN the dropdown on the SPD tab, just select a populated channel (or Slot as they call it). :thumb:


All 4 slots are empty


----------



## Aurosonic

mouacyk said:


> I read those guides as well and used 1.25v SA/VCCIO on an 8700K for many months with 4266MHz TridentZ's at 17-18-18. One day, I had to up my 8700K vCore from 1.315v to 1.376v to maintain stability at 5GHz. So, I'm sticking to 1.15v SA/VCCIO on this 9900K.


How come vcore somehow related to memory controller ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Aurosonic said:


> All 4 slots are empty


strange... borked or overwrtten ram firmware? Do you have AID64 or SIV64? The 4400c19 kit I have reads fine on x390 and z370 (neither of which are assembled right now).


----------



## xSneak

So i was testing my ram more and found that it is temp sensitive. At 61c it will error out in 5mins with trefi maxed out, however with the fans running it will last 4 hrs before an error (57c max i think). I noticed that i have negative scaling with voltage, when i lowered cl by 1 it errors within 5 min at 1.47v, at 1.45v it lasts 40min, 1.43v it lasts 3+ hours before an error in ram test. Each voltage lower is worth 2-3c temp wise.
I'm going to put a fan to blow over the ram directly to see if that does anything beneficial.
If it lasted that long at 1.43v, could it be my vccio or vccsa are too high?


----------



## mouacyk

Aurosonic said:


> How come vcore somehow related to memory controller ?


Just a hypothesis on observation -- no data and really no way to verify.


----------



## jfriend00

xSneak said:


> So i was testing my ram more and found that it is temp sensitive. At 61c it will error out in 5mins with trefi maxed out, however with the fans running it will last 4 hrs before an error (57c max i think). I noticed that i have negative scaling with voltage, when i lowered cl by 1 it errors within 5 min at 1.47v, at 1.45v it lasts 40min, 1.43v it lasts 3+ hours before an error in ram test. Each voltage lower is worth 2-3c temp wise.
> I'm going to put a fan to blow over the ram directly to see if that does anything beneficial.
> If it lasted that long at 1.43v, could it be my vccio or vccsa are too high?


Fix your case airflow. If your DIMMs are getting to 61c, you should be looking at your case airflow. With semi-decent case airflow, you should be able to keep your DIMMs in the low 40s without adding a fan over the DIMMs. And, just blowing a fan on them without also adding case airflow will work initially and then the air inside the case will slowly heat up and the DIMM temp will slowly rise.

If you have your case fans set to be triggered by CPU temps, you may have a case where the RAM test never triggers that CPU temp and thus the case fans never actually crank up. This may be an artificial condition that only happens during a memory test and wouldn't be very likely to happen with real apps. If that's the case, then you can just override your case fans (to crank them up) when testing your memory (that's what I do). My DIMMs stay below 42C with semi-decent case airflow and an overnight RAMTest run.


----------



## howling391

Can you guys post your mobo model, what VCCIO/VCCSA you set in bios AND what it reports in hwinfo during load(gaming, stress testing)?

Edit: My M X Hero board gives ~0.06v more voltage than what I set in BIOS and was curious if other models had such variances.


----------



## wingman99

howling391 said:


> Can you guys post your mobo model, what VCCIO/VCCSA you set in bios AND what it reports in hwinfo? I'm curious if the IO/SA voltage variance exists in other models.


When AUTO overclocking memory it does.
ASUS Z370


----------



## xSneak

jfriend00 said:


> Fix your case airflow. If your DIMMs are getting to 61c, you should be looking at your case airflow. With semi-decent case airflow, you should be able to keep your DIMMs in the low 40s without adding a fan over the DIMMs. And, just blowing a fan on them without also adding case airflow will work initially and then the air inside the case will slowly heat up and the DIMM temp will slowly rise.
> 
> If you have your case fans set to be triggered by CPU temps, you may have a case where the RAM test never triggers that CPU temp and thus the case fans never actually crank up. This may be an artificial condition that only happens during a memory test and wouldn't be very likely to happen with real apps. If that's the case, then you can just override your case fans (to crank them up) when testing your memory (that's what I do). My DIMMs stay below 42C with semi-decent case airflow and an overnight RAMTest run.


I was running my front fans at 1550 rpm fixed. Its the combination of my memory being dual ranked with a small low profile heatsink and the distance from the front fan that causes it to get that hot. The sensor i have taped to it peaked at 54c over a 9 hour ramtest run while I was at work.


----------



## Aurosonic

Jpmboy said:


> strange... borked or overwrtten ram firmware? Do you have AID64 or SIV64? The 4400c19 kit I have reads fine on x390 and z370 (neither of which are assembled right now).


No firmware changes at all. All stock. I believe it's CPU-Z/Windows 10 issue. Aida64 and Bios shows SPD without any problem:


----------



## Benjiw

If you can't increase memory speed is it a limitation of your cpu? I have a sabertooth z170 board and a 6700k but I can't seem to get any form of stability past it's rated speed. is it possible i'm overvolting something or undervolting something?


----------



## Jpmboy

Aurosonic said:


> No firmware changes at all. All stock. I believe it's CPU-Z/Windows 10 issue. Aida64 and Bios shows SPD without any problem:


even stranger. :thinking:


----------



## xSneak

Benjiw said:


> If you can't increase memory speed is it a limitation of your cpu? I have a sabertooth z170 board and a 6700k but I can't seem to get any form of stability past it's rated speed. is it possible i'm overvolting something or undervolting something?


Depends on cpu/motherboard/ram combo along with the voltages/timings you are running. Would need more info to be able to help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4 Has rough guidelines for what different ICs can do.


----------



## Benjiw

xSneak said:


> Depends on cpu/motherboard/ram combo along with the voltages/timings you are running. Would need more info to be able to help.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4 Has rough guidelines for what different ICs can do.


Ok I see what i'm doing wrong now, I need to find the balance of where my cpu is limiting the speed the ram can go, then adjust the voltages to suit, I'm not sure why my motherboard puts SA and VCCIO to 1.3v+ when on auto? Just seems far too high imo. 

Currently a bit tired of searching for the right spot so i'm sat at 3272mhz 16-18-18-36-1 trfc 574 I've not touched any other timing, my xmp rating for this ram is 3200 16-18-18-38-2.

EDIT:
I appear to be getting the hang of it now.


----------



## xSneak

Benjiw said:


> Ok I see what i'm doing wrong now, I need to find the balance of where my cpu is limiting the speed the ram can go, then adjust the voltages to suit, I'm not sure why my motherboard puts SA and VCCIO to 1.3v+ when on auto? Just seems far too high imo.
> 
> Currently a bit tired of searching for the right spot so i'm sat at 3272mhz 16-18-18-36-1 trfc 574 I've not touched any other timing, my xmp rating for this ram is 3200 16-18-18-38-2.
> 
> EDIT:
> I appear to be getting the hang of it now.


http://www.softnology.biz/

this program will tell you what memory ic you have in your sticks and then you can use that info to figure out what they can probably do. I dont think you have samsung b-die which overclocks differently.


----------



## KedarWolf

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtzkk

4x8GB Trident Z 3600 CL16

Considered the best 4x8GB kit for overclocking your RAM, highly binned. I'm sure I'll get 4133MHZ on my 9900k or higher. I already get that on lower binned Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200. 

On the way, @Jpmboy


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtzkk
> 
> 4x8GB Trident Z 3600 CL16
> 
> Considered the best 4x8GB kit for overclocking your RAM, highly binned. I'm sure I'll get 4133MHZ on my 9900k or higher. I already get that on lower binned Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200.
> 
> On the way, @*Jpmboy*


It's a good kit and not stupidly priced. lol - second kit on it's way.. gonna see how 64 GB does on the R6EO.


----------



## xSneak

What do you guys think is the best bench for ram? I'm going to test out some different programs when I get back from work. I want something that can give me a performance score that is sensitive to timing changes. I've been using geekbench 3 trial which is decent but I'm wondering if there is anything better out there. Superpi doesn't seem to scale with the timing changes I was doing, aida64 doesn't give you a score to reference, passmark memory bench gives you points for available ram which can skew the scores.... What about geekbench 4, sisandra, wprime, userbench, maxxmem, novabench, ???
I'm up to 8300 multicore memory score in geekbench 3 32bit trial


----------



## Jpmboy

SiSoft sandra, GB4... and simply: SuperPi32M (none are for stability, just ram benchmarks)


----------



## That_1_Hz_Extra

Just wanted to share my stability test here for 24/7 usage untill I'm ready to see if 4300Mhz can be obtained.


Vcore is set in BIOS @ 1.350V with LLC 6. It's small FFT Prime95 29.4 build 8 stable for 1hr, ending the test manually. 

Vcore under this load is at 1.296V. 

I recon this is better than let's say 1.33V with LLC 7 as the voltage spike be on a higher location on the voltage curve?



I've gathered very usefull information on this Forum as well some info on Reddit and ROG Forum. Anyway Thanks to everyone who share in depth information that's easy to find for everyone who needs it. The result is seen below. Oh and RamTest is at 49mins/3300% now.


----------



## Silent Scone

That_1_Hz_Extra said:


> Just wanted to share my stability test here for 24/7 usage untill I'm ready to see if 4300Mhz can be obtained.
> 
> 
> Vcore is set in BIOS @ 1.350V with LLC 6. It's small FFT Prime95 29.4 build 8 stable for 1hr, ending the test manually.
> 
> Vcore under this load is at 1.296V.
> 
> I recon this is better than let's say 1.33V with LLC 7 as the voltage spike be on a higher location on the voltage curve?
> 
> 
> 
> I've gathered very usefull information on this Forum as well some info on Reddit and ROG Forum. Anyway Thanks to everyone who share in depth information that's easy to find for everyone who needs it. The result is seen below. Oh and RamTest is at 49mins/3300% now.


Nice result for the kit, although you should really be dialing in for tight 1T on the Gene at the highest possible frequency (that the modules allow)


----------



## Eyqbi5646

Does anyone else see errors creeping up right around the 37.5-40 degrees c mark? I'm considering a custom loop to keep the ram temps lower.


----------



## jfriend00

newfaxwhodis said:


> Does anyone else see errors creeping up right around the 37.5-40 degrees c mark? I'm considering a custom loop to keep the ram temps lower.


I had one picky stick that would start getting errors around 42C at some settings. If you're getting errors at 40C that are not there at 37C, I'd say you just have timings too tight or have pushed the speed a little far for one particular stick. 

There are semiconductor properties that vary with temperature, so if tiny variations in temperatures at relatively low temperatures like the difference between 36C and 40C are making your RAM unstable, then you apparently have a configuration that is so close to the edge of stability that this small temperature rise pushes you off the edge and you get errors. You can, of course, cool them but you'll have to make sure you have enough safety margin that if ambient rises a few more degrees in the room with the computer, you aren't again over your magic stability temperature. Since lots of people have aggressive, stable overclocks well above 40C (my DIMMs get up to 44C on an overnight RAM test and are stable at 4133MHz, for example), I'd first think you should probably adjust your overclock so it's not so close to the edge of stability so it's not that sensitive to temperature.


----------



## ESRCJ

For those on X299, did you tune your tertiary timings manually or did you set those to auto? If you manually tuned them, any suggestions and would you mind sharing yours via MemTweakIt? I'm aware of a few secondary timing "rules" and some of the minimum permissible values. Are there any I should know for tertiary timings?


----------



## ESRCJ

gridironcpj--i9 7980XE @4.7/3.2---4x8GB G.Skill (F4-3600C16-8GTZR)---4000Mhz-C16-18-16-36-1T----VSA 0.85V, VCCIO 1.10V, VDIMM 1.42V, Vmesh 1.15V, Vcore 1.23V---Ramtest 14,541%


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> gridironcpj--i9 7980XE @4.7/3.2---4x8GB G.Skill (F4-3600C16-8GTZR)---4000Mhz-C16-18-16-36-1T----VSA 0.85V, VCCIO 1.10V, VDIMM 1.42V, Vmesh 1.15V, Vcore 1.23V---Ramtest 14,541%


 what's the "Unknown" motherboard? (according to AID64's memtest)


Use this to show your 3rd timings:


----------



## ESRCJ

Jpmboy said:


> what's the "Unknown" motherboard? (according to AID64's memtest)
> 
> 
> Use this to show your 3rd timings:


Rampage VI Extreme Omega. Apparently it's unknown to AIDA64 lol. 

As for the ASRock utility, the tertiary timings reported are different from what I have in the BIOS. MemTweakIt always shows what I have in the BIOS. Am I missing something here?

Also, that result I posted ran another 10,000% earlier this morning, then I shut the PC off for a bit. The next boot, it didn't pass 1000%. I checked the RTLs and IOLs, they are still the same. This has been an issue for me with the original RVIE as well.


----------



## swddeluxx

Mainboard *ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene* :guitar:

5.0 GHz / 4.7 GHz Cache / 4400 CL 17 *1T* 











*Super Pi 32M* Result :drum:


----------



## xSneak

I'm sort of salty about karhu ram test now. I've had two separate runs on my memory that passed 11hr and 7hr no errors, but when I was playing pubg my system kept crashing. Even after i relaxed some of the timings. I had the front fan on the same speed as when i was running the test, the only difference was the exhaust fans were on auto settings, but the first time it crashed within 15min of starting the game. I'm running hci memtest again and I notice the temperatures on the ram are a couple degrees hotter from this test.
The same settings that passed karhu 11hr and 7hr, errored out at 158% coverage on hci memtest. In my eyes, karhu ramtest is junk now along with gsat.


----------



## shellashock

xSneak said:


> I'm sort of salty about karhu ram test now. I've had two separate runs on my memory that passed 11hr and 7hr no errors, but when I was playing pubg my system kept crashing. Even after i relaxed some of the timings. I had the front fan on the same speed as when i was running the test, the only difference was the exhaust fans were on auto settings, but the first time it crashed within 15min of starting the game. I'm running hci memtest again and I notice the temperatures on the ram are a couple degrees hotter from this test.
> The same settings that passed karhu 11hr and 7hr, errored out at 158% coverage on hci memtest. In my eyes, karhu ramtest is junk now along with gsat.


IIRC, HCI memtest is still way better at detecting CPU Cache instability than karhu ramtest. I would double check that P95 blend test isn't failing to determine if you have core/cache instability and then try dropping cache ratio by 1 and see if you still fail HCI memtest.


----------



## Jpmboy

gridironcpj said:


> *Rampage VI Extreme Omega. Apparently it's unknown to AIDA64* lol.
> 
> As for the ASRock utility, the tertiary timings reported are different from what I have in the BIOS. MemTweakIt always shows what I have in the BIOS. Am I missing something here?
> 
> Also, that result I posted ran another 10,000% earlier this morning, then I shut the PC off for a bit. The next boot, it didn't pass 1000%. I checked the RTLs and IOLs, they are still the same. This has been an issue for me with the original RVIE as well.


lol- yeah, I know. Even AID64 Engineer does not recognize it (yet). 
ATC?


----------



## xSneak

shellashock said:


> IIRC, HCI memtest is still way better at detecting CPU Cache instability than karhu ramtest. I would double check that P95 blend test isn't failing to determine if you have core/cache instability and then try dropping cache ratio by 1 and see if you still fail HCI memtest.


Thanks for mentioning blend. I kept failing it within 2 minutes across a couple workers no matter how much I increased my vcore or lowered the clock speeds. Looking back at those screenshots i saved, i saw that the system agent frequency(fclk in bios) was at 1ghz instead of 800mhz on my previous asrock board. When I sat it to 800mhz it ran for probably 20mins or without any workers failing. I'm guessing that was related to the instability. I'm going to have to play some more pubg and run stress test to find out.
I even ran hci memtest to 350% coverage on my current settings with no errors yet blend was crashing on the workers like that. :thinking:


----------



## Benjiw

xSneak said:


> http://www.softnology.biz/
> 
> this program will tell you what memory ic you have in your sticks and then you can use that info to figure out what they can probably do. I dont think you have samsung b-die which overclocks differently.


Hynix H5AN8G8NMFR-TFC So i'm guessing they're rubbish?


----------



## ESRCJ

Jpmboy said:


> lol- yeah, I know. Even AID64 Engineer does not recognize it (yet).
> ATC?


What is ATC? I tried your tertiary timings with my primary and secondary timings and BSOD'ed when logging into Windows, ha. I would need to loosen my secondaries a bit for those tertiaries or ramp up some voltages. On that note, how did you decide which tertiaries to go with? Are there any "rules" I should be aware of? 

It seems each boot produces volatile results: 10,000%+ coverage versus 300% coverage with the same exact settings. Is there anything involved with training that I can't see in MemTweakIt or Timing Configurator that could be the culprit here?


----------



## shellashock

xSneak said:


> Thanks for mentioning blend. I kept failing it within 2 minutes across a couple workers no matter how much I increased my vcore or lowered the clock speeds. Looking back at those screenshots i saved, i saw that the system agent frequency(fclk in bios) was at 1ghz instead of 800mhz on my previous asrock board. When I sat it to 800mhz it ran for probably 20mins or without any workers failing. I'm guess that was related to the instability. I'm going to have to play some more pubg and run stress test to find out.
> I even ran hci memtest to 350% coverage on my current settings with no errors yet blend was crashing on the workers like that. :thinking:


Now that is weird. I know I had a similar issue with my ASRock Z170 Pro4S where it just plain hated changing the FCLK too far above/below 800MHZ and would cause No Post/slow boot times; but I never tried to figure if any voltages or other ratios changed that behaviour. Have you tried tweaking the SA/IO voltages and see if this affects stability with FCLK? Given the high loads being placed on the IMC with RAM OCs, I wouldn't be surprised if the "System Agent Clock" is getting cranky and wants more voltage for a 25% higher clock speed than base 800 MHz. That's just idle speculation though; I haven't personally heard of instability from FCLK during ram/cache testing before.


----------



## xSneak

Benjiw said:


> Hynix H5AN8G8NMFR-TFC So i'm guessing they're rubbish?


Well you can still clock them better than stock settings if you want. I would look for people who have that style of memory and see what they are running and go off of that... I'm not familiar with hynix mfr.


----------



## kignt

xSneak said:


> I'm sort of salty about karhu ram test now. I've had two separate runs on my memory that passed 11hr and 7hr no errors, but when I was playing pubg my system kept crashing. Even after i relaxed some of the timings. I had the front fan on the same speed as when i was running the test, the only difference was the exhaust fans were on auto settings, but the first time it crashed within 15min of starting the game. I'm running hci memtest again and I notice the temperatures on the ram are a couple degrees hotter from this test.
> The same settings that passed karhu 11hr and 7hr, errored out at 158% coverage on hci memtest. In my eyes, karhu ramtest is junk now along with gsat.


Did you ever have POST issues with same settings? Double check if those settings will come out of a couple cold boots?


----------



## The Pook

Just curious ... why does the OP say to only run Karhu's RAM test for only an hour? I've mostly been setting my RAM OCs, using it for a couple days, and then if that seems fine I'll run RAM Test overnight. Twice now I've failed after the 6-8 hour mark.


----------



## mouacyk

The Pook said:


> Just curious ... why does the OP say to only run Karhu's RAM test for only an hour? I've mostly been setting my RAM OCs, using it for a couple days, and then if that seems fine I'll run RAM Test overnight. Twice now I've failed after the 6-8 hour mark.


That's usually good enough for web browsing and general gaming.


----------



## xSneak

shellashock said:


> Now that is weird. I know I had a similar issue with my ASRock Z170 Pro4S where it just plain hated changing the FCLK too far above/below 800MHZ and would cause No Post/slow boot times; but I never tried to figure if any voltages or other ratios changed that behaviour. Have you tried tweaking the SA/IO voltages and see if this affects stability with FCLK? Given the high loads being placed on the IMC with RAM OCs, I wouldn't be surprised if the "System Agent Clock" is getting cranky and wants more voltage for a 25% higher clock speed than base 800 MHz. That's just idle speculation though; I haven't personally heard of instability from FCLK during ram/cache testing before.


I ran geekbench 4 and unigine superposition bench to see what difference there was between 800 and 1000mhz fclk and I didn't notice the scores changing so i'm just going to leave it at 800. My vccssa was at 1.248v which is enough for me.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> Just curious ... why does the OP say to only run Karhu's RAM test for only an hour? I've mostly been setting my RAM OCs, using it for a couple days, and then if that seems fine I'll run RAM Test overnight. Twice now I've failed after the 6-8 hour mark.


 you have to understand... the idea was to have folks run ANYTHING that actually did test a ram OC. 
Stability is very context dependent. IMO, to isolate the RAM component, use GSAT. For a more RAM/Cache-IO load, use HCi. Ramtest does a fine job of trying to tie both aspects, but IMO, not as good gsat+ HCi


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> I ran geekbench 4 and unigine superposition bench to see what difference there was between 800 and 1000mhz fclk and I didn't notice the scores changing so i'm just going to leave it at 800. My vccssa was at 1.248v which is enough for me.


 likely because neither is saturating the fclk bus. - right?
this is the system agent multiplier. bclk x fclk = *system agent bus frequency*. 

With100 BCLK you can set the FCLK to 1000MHz (10x) which = 1000MHz System Agent clock
125 and higher you can leave this on auto
if the system is failing at fclk 1000 ... disable bclk spreadsprectrum and tune VCCSA (both lower and higher)


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> you have to understand... the idea was to have folks run ANYTHING that actually did test a ram OC.
> Stability is very context dependent. IMO, to isolate the RAM component, use GSAT. For a more RAM/Cache-IO load, use HCi. Ramtest does a fine job of trying to tie both aspects, but IMO, not as good gsat+ HCi



What do you mean by "not as good" ? Not as quick or not as thorough?


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> What do you mean by "not as good" ? Not as quick or not as thorough?


 it's certainly quicker than running 2 tests. And not as thorough as running 2 test. But certainly better than running none. 
IMO, GSAT is best for testing the RAM only.


----------



## ESRCJ

I can't seem to ever boot with the RTL/IOLs manually set. I just set them to what my motherboard always assigns to them with my current timings. Is there anything else I need to mess with here to boot?


----------



## Silent Scone

The Pook said:


> Just curious ... why does the OP say to only run Karhu's RAM test for only an hour? I've mostly been setting my RAM OCs, using it for a couple days, and then if that seems fine I'll run RAM Test overnight. Twice now I've failed after the 6-8 hour mark.


As others have mentioned, the context of stability depends on ones use case. The idea of the thread was for users to engage and to gauge with each other where both the platform limits are as well as those of their own hardware. Having users endlessly chasing a flipped bit after large amounts of coverage isn't normally difficult to dial out, either. 

Some users can accept these things for what they are, others have a hard time comprehending the physical elements that are synonymous with running these things out of spec. Running these tests for a certain amount of coverage is fine, otherwise, it's easy to end up chasing your tail. No overclock is 100% unconditional. Of course, OC A can be more stable than OC B, that doesn't mean it's without condition.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf said:


> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtzkk
> 
> 4x8GB Trident Z 3600 CL16
> 
> Considered the best 4x8GB kit for overclocking your RAM, highly binned. I'm sure I'll get 4133MHZ on my 9900k or higher. I already get that on lower binned Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200.
> 
> On the way, @Jpmboy


Newegg, why you take ten days to deliver my memory.

Waits impatiently.


----------



## bl4ckdot

KedarWolf said:


> Newegg, why you take ten days to deliver my memory.
> 
> Waits impatiently.


I have this exact kit, it's good


----------



## KedarWolf

bl4ckdot said:


> I have this exact kit, it's good


I hope it performs better than my Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 4x8 GB kit I've had for several years. 

On my Gigabyte Z390 board and my 9900k, I have HCI MemTest running all day while I'm at work on that kit at 4200MHZ 17-17-17-40 2T.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Newegg, why you take ten days to deliver my memory.
> 
> Waits impatiently.


same here! I got a second kit coming to mix on the R6EO for 64GB... should have been here yesterday.


----------



## djgar

KedarWolf said:


> Newegg, why you take ten days to deliver my memory.
> 
> Waits impatiently.





Jpmboy said:


> same here! I got a second kit coming to mix on the R6EO for 64GB... should have been here yesterday.


Tornadoes, typhoons, weather or not ... at least you're not getting the "Forwarded to a different address" I'm getting from the USPS for a package .


----------



## bxcounter

G.Skill Trident Z F4-4266C19D-16GTZR / VCCIO > 1.15000 / VCCSA > 1.23125

GSAT 1h stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

djgar said:


> Tornadoes, typhoons, weather or not ... at least you're not getting the "*Forwarded to a different address*" I'm getting from the USPS for a package .


... i have not yet got that message. jinxed! :no-smil


----------



## Jpmboy

okay - initial OC on 64GB. 1.42V, vccio 1.05V, VSA 1.000V. A stable base to tighten things up from. 1h gsat Two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits

edit: for got to say, these exact settings will throw an error unless I keep the sticks below ~45C. 8x8GB packs them in a heat sandwich. Have the same issue with 8x8GB on my R5E-10. The sticks never get that hot in normal use, only during stability testing.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> okay - initial OC on 64GB. 1.42V, vccio 1.05V, VSA 1.000V. A stable base to tighten things up from. 1h gsat Two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits
> 
> edit: for got to say, these exact settings will throw an error unless I keep the sticks below ~45C. 8x8GB packs them in a heat sandwich. Have the same issue with 8x8GB on my R5E-10. The sticks never get that hot in normal use, only during stability testing.


Nice result with that VCCCSA/IO !


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Nice result with that VCCCSA/IO !


thanks - still getting some improvement yet. 1T seems like a bridge too far for 64GB...


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> thanks - still getting some improvement yet. 1T seems like a bridge too far for 64GB...


Yes, it will be with that density, but ace result. What's the maximum ratio you've managed at 1T with all slots populated?


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Yes, it will be with that density, but ace result. *What's the maximum ratio you've managed at 1T* with all slots populated?


haven't tried... but will.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> haven't tried... but will.


Thanks, curious to know - as I haven't asked where the boards tap out this gen (and don't have one to test here).


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Thanks, curious to know - as I haven't asked where the boards tap out this gen (and don't have one to test here).


correction, I have tried - 4000c16 1T posts and boots, but fails gsat (and quickly)... I'll look at lower frequencies


----------



## xSneak

Does post code 23 mean too low vccsa voltage? I get that occasionally on boot. I got my ram to pass hci with lower cl but it would boot to 23 post code.

https://overclocking.guide/rog-maximus-ix-x-apex-overclocking-guide/


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> Does post code 23 mean too low vccsa voltage? I get that occasionally on boot. I got my ram to pass hci with lower cl but it would boot to 23 post code.
> 
> https://overclocking.guide/rog-maximus-ix-x-apex-overclocking-guide/



https://www.overclock.net/forum/27899142-post3272.html


----------



## DVH2015

9900x 4.8 Ghz
Mesh 3.2 Ghz


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Thanks, curious to know - as I haven't asked where the boards tap out this gen (and don't have one to test here).


hey Scone:
64GB two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits (yeah, mixed  )
4000c16 1T posts and boot without issues... but fails any memory test.
4200c18 2T post and boots... fails memory testing

64GB @ 4000c16-16-16-38-2T w/ 1.43V with somewhat tightened secondaries is good to go. I may putz with 4200 just for grins since it will post easily (1.45V)


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> hey Scone:
> 64GB two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits (yeah, mixed  )
> 4000c16 1T posts and boot without issues... but fails any memory test.
> 4200c18 2T post and boots... fails memory testing
> 
> 64GB @ 4000c16-16-16-38-2T w/ 1.43V with somewhat tightened secondaries is good to go. I may putz with 4200 just for grins since it will post easily (1.45V)


I'll have my 4x8GB Cl16 3600 Monday or Tuesday, @Jpmboy it's at the sorting facility here in Toronto but still says Tuesday delivery tracking. 

newegg.ca why you send $600 CAD RAM by Canada Post.


----------



## PatRaceTin

My 8700K, I got it 3 weeks ago retail box.

need high VCCSA for DDR4 oc.

The VCore is okay for me.

(@Core 5.0 Cache 4.7 need VCore = 1.24 , Loadline = 7 (Max=8))

But, 

DDR4 4500 C17 need VCCIO = 1.35 , VCCSA = 1.4125

I am feeling not safe for 24/7.

Should I fall back to 4400 or below for lower VCCSA ?


----------



## Hydroplane

Just ordered 2x8gb Trident Z 4133 19-19-19-39 1.35v, will be interesting to see how it compares to 3200c14


----------



## The Pook

Hydroplane said:


> Just ordered 2x8gb Trident Z 4133 19-19-19-39 1.35v, will be interesting to see how it compares to 3200c14



Hey, my RAM!


----------



## hawaks




----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> hey Scone:
> 64GB two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits (yeah, mixed  )
> 4000c16 1T posts and boot without issues... but fails any memory test.
> 4200c18 2T post and boots... fails memory testing
> 
> 64GB @ 4000c16-16-16-38-2T w/ 1.43V with somewhat tightened secondaries is good to go. I may putz with 4200 just for grins since it will post easily (1.45V)


 @Jpmboy my Trident Z 4x8GB CL16 3600 kit is at my downtown work location, just arrived!! That location best for deliveries, open 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., and I'm NEVER home for deliveries.

If it doesn't perform better than my lower binned Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 kit going right back as an RMA. I lose 10% of the price or something like that if I list it as not satisfactory, or I could be sneaky and just say it won't post with XMP on stock CPU settings, then I get the full price back. 

But then Newegg doesn't make any money off me and we all know how badly Newegg needs the money.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy* my Trident Z 4x8GB CL16 3600 kit is at my downtown work location, just arrived!! That location best for deliveries, open 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., and I'm NEVER home for deliveries.
> 
> If it doesn't perform better than my lower binned Ripjaws 5 CL14 3200 kit going right back as an RMA. I lose 10% of the price or something like that if I list it as not satisfactory, or I could be sneaky and just say it won't post with XMP on stock CPU settings, then I get the full price back.
> 
> But then Newegg doesn't make any money off me and we all know how badly Newegg needs the money.



I'd be surprised if they did not handle higher freqs better than the ripjaws... or you could have a super set of 3200c14s there. :thumb:


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> I'd be surprised if they did not handle higher freqs better than the ripjaws... or you could have a super set of 3200c14s there. :thumb:


The Ripjaws 5 CL14 kit is a super old b-die X99 kit, but who knows how good those were binned back then.

On my Z390 Aorus Master, I get 4133MHZ at 17-18-18-40 2T already with that kit HCI stable, so I think they are binned pretty well. This at 5.1GHZ CPU, 4.7GHZ cache. :drum:

1T maybe!!


----------



## The Pook

Starting over with my RAM - I can run 4133 @ 16-17-17-34 2T with tightened sub timings all day without any issues but I'm constantly failing at the 4-5 hour mark in RAM Test. 



Set VCCIO/SA at 1.3v and vDIMM to 1.5v. 

Default 19-19-19-39 timings with tweaked sub-timings:










18-18-18-37 with same sub-timings:










Dropped tRFC to 500 and gonna let it run again overnight. Gonna be sad if the best this RAM can do is CL18.


----------



## jfriend00

The Pook said:


> Starting over with my RAM - I can run 4133 @ 16-17-17-34 2T with tightened sub timings all day without any issues but I'm constantly failing at the 4-5 hour mark in RAM Test.


Did you see what your DIMM temps got up to during the failed RAMTest? Do you have sufficient case fan airflow during your RAMTest? 

I have no idea if this is your issue or not, but there are common configurations where case fans are triggered by CPU core temps and RAMTest doesn't drive up the CPU core temps, so case fans stay on idle and that allows DIMM temps to get high enough in a very long test that you get a failure multi-hours into the RAMTest that may never actually occur in a real-world use of the PC (essentially a false-positive when compare to real-world use). 

A work-around is to either change what the case fans get triggered by so they do come on more or recognize that a really long RAMTest is an artificial thermal situation so you manually turn up your case fans before starting a long RAMTest (that's what I do).


----------



## KedarWolf

jfriend00 said:


> Did you see what your DIMM temps got up to during the failed RAMTest? Do you have sufficient case fan airflow during your RAMTest?
> 
> I have no idea if this is your issue or not, but there are common configurations where case fans are triggered by CPU core temps and RAMTest doesn't drive up the CPU core temps, so case fans stay on idle and that allows DIMM temps to get high enough in a very long test that you get a failure multi-hours into the RAMTest that may never actually occur in a real-world use of the PC (essentially a false-positive when compare to real-world use).
> 
> A work-around is to either change what the case fans get triggered by so they do come on more or recognize that a really long RAMTest is an artificial thermal situation so you manually turn up your case fans before starting a long RAMTest (that's what I do).


I use this, right now my ambients temps are rather high, probably 24C or so (75F) and 300% into RAM test I'm at 37.5C on the hottest stick.


https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-Turbulence-Memory-Cooling-3500rpm/dp/B0041G211U


----------



## The Pook

jfriend00 said:


> Did you see what your DIMM temps got up to during the failed RAMTest? Do you have sufficient case fan airflow during your RAMTest?
> 
> I have no idea if this is your issue or not, but there are common configurations where case fans are triggered by CPU core temps and RAMTest doesn't drive up the CPU core temps, so case fans stay on idle and that allows DIMM temps to get high enough in a very long test that you get a failure multi-hours into the RAMTest that may never actually occur in a real-world use of the PC (essentially a false-positive when compare to real-world use).
> 
> A work-around is to either change what the case fans get triggered by so they do come on more or recognize that a really long RAMTest is an artificial thermal situation so you manually turn up your case fans before starting a long RAMTest (that's what I do).



I don't run my fans on a curve, I just set them manually at a fixed RPM. They peaked at 53c and averaged 45c @ 1.5v during last night's 8 hour test. 

That's well within reason, no?

Regardless, at stock timings I didn't change the voltage (still 1.5v) and it passes just fine. I didn't check the temps on the DIMMs after that test but I can't imagine they'd be any different.


----------



## Jpmboy

errors become more common when the sticks get above 40-45C in my experience. It all depends on what margins remain in the overclock.


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> I don't run my fans on a curve, I just set them manually at a fixed RPM. They peaked at 53c and averaged 45c @ 1.5v during last night's 8 hour test.
> 
> That's well within reason, no?
> 
> Regardless, at stock timings I didn't change the voltage (still 1.5v) and it passes just fine. I didn't check the temps on the DIMMs after that test but I can't imagine they'd be any different.


Yes, under 40C is ideal, like what was said, above 40-45C you'll likely get errors. 

And RAM scales with temps, higher frequencies/lower timings are more prone to errors as the temperature rises that at lower frequencies or stock settings.


----------



## The Pook

:sad-smile

guess I gotta get temps down and see what happens. 

if it doesn't fix anything I can blame all of you, right? :laughings

thanks guys!


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf said:


> I use this, right now my ambients temps are rather high, probably 24C or so (75F) and 300% into RAM test I'm at 37.5C on the hottest stick.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-Turbulence-Memory-Cooling-3500rpm/dp/B0041G211U


RamTest now at 1000%, RAM going no higher than 37.8C. 

Edit: This at 1.45v RAM, VCCIO at 1.23, System Agent at 1.25v, CPU voltage VR Vout at 1.363v.


----------



## KedarWolf

Early testing has this stable in RamTest. Going to run HCI overnight though.


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> I use this, right now my ambients temps are rather high, probably 24C or so (75F) and 300% into RAM test I'm at 37.5C on the hottest stick.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-Turbulence-Memory-Cooling-3500rpm/dp/B0041G211U


Keep in mind that a RAM fan works best in the context of enough case circulation to get rid of that heated air. If there's isn't enough case circulation, then the in-case air will just get warmer and warmer and the RAM fan becomes less and less effective over time. 

In my case, when I have enough case airflow, I don't find any need for a RAM fan at all and my DIMM temps stay below 40C. Other situations may differ (it depends upon whether the natural flow of the air through your case goes enough by the DIMMs or not).


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf -- i9 9900k @5.1/4.7 -- 4133Mhz C17-17-17-38-2T 1.46v -- SA 1.26v -- VCCIO 1.23v -- RamTest Over 1 Hour

New RAM kit, Trident Z 4x8GB CL16 3600.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf -- i9 9900k @5.1/4.7 -- 4133Mhz C17-17-17-38-2T 1.46v -- SA 1.25v -- VCCIO 1.23v -- RamTest Over 1 Hour
> 
> New RAM kit, Trident Z 4x8GB CL16 3600.


 NIce! Compare to the 3200c14 kit?


Aren't these purty. 4800c18 kit.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> NIce! Compare to the 3200c14 kit?
> 
> 
> Aren't these purty. 4800c18 kit.


Nice!!!

Timings quite a bit better than the CL14 3200 kit, I'd only get just over 59k read, 61k write on those.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> NIce! Compare to the 3200c14 kit?
> 
> 
> Aren't these purty. 4800c18 kit.


I'd just love to get these. 

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c17q-32gtrs

And @Jpmboy did they fix the RGB RAM issues with this new kit?

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4266c17q-32gtzr


----------



## The Pook

Used to be stable enough to game at CL17 4133 but now I can't even POST at CL17 4133 even with super relaxed secondaries/tertiaries 

Giving 4000 a go and 17-17-17-37 is 8+ hour stable.










Dropped down to CL16, dropped VCCIO/SA to 1.25v, and changed tREFI to 21420 (blaze it) and it seems stable but I'll run another test overnight tonight. 

Threw a Corsair Vengence RAM cooler on my RAM too, but still didn't get those magical 30c load temps like you guys. Think I peaked at ~40c but I forgot to include it in the screenshot  



Jpmboy said:


> NIce! Compare to the 3200c14 kit?
> 
> 
> Aren't these purty. 4800c18 kit.



Pretty but they look like finger print magnets to me


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Old-school memory Corsair Vengeance LPX Red 16Gb 2x8 (CMK16GX4M2B4266C19R)
Frequency maybe higher(I was already laid out here), but use this frequency as new to me


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> NIce! Compare to the 3200c14 kit?
> 
> 
> Aren't these purty. 4800c18 kit.


Very Nice!


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> Used to be stable enough to game at CL17 4133 but now I can't even POST at CL17 4133 even with super relaxed secondaries/tertiaries
> Giving 4000 a go and 17-17-17-37 is 8+ hour stable.
> Dropped down to CL16, dropped VCCIO/SA to 1.25v, and changed tREFI to 21420 (blaze it) and it seems stable but I'll run another test overnight tonight.
> Threw a Corsair Vengence RAM cooler on my RAM too, but still didn't get those magical 30c load temps like you guys. Think I peaked at ~40c but I forgot to include it in the screenshot
> Pretty but they look like finger print magnets to me


 I'm sure they are.. white gloves only, no pizza fingers. 
what's the cpuz spd tab on your kit look like? Sounds like someting is/has degraded over time. ?


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> I'm sure they are.. white gloves only, no pizza fingers.
> what's the cpuz spd tab on your kit look like? Sounds like someting is/has degraded over time. ?



Never ran it over 1.5v and the kit is only about a month old, really doubt it's degraded. Default timings are 4133 19-19-19-39 2T @ 1.35v. 

I'm pretty sure it's either my board being wonky and/or one of the timings I left on auto. Set most of them manually but all these are still on auto (but they always were on auto and in the past it worked fine).


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> Never ran it over 1.5v and the kit is only about a month old, really doubt it's degraded. Default timings are 4133 19-19-19-39 2T @ 1.35v.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's either my board being wonky and/or one of the timings I left on auto. Set most of them manually but all these are still on auto (but they always were on auto and in the past it worked fine).


Sure. sticks can take a beating... but an IMC is not as tough many times. I doubt the board is the cause, my first suspect would be the CPU IMC.


----------



## The Pook

Can't see how I'd degrade the IMC with such mild voltages and temps.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> Can't see how I'd degrade the IMC with such mild voltages and temps.


 But same would then apply to the board too... have you changed anything related to the cpu cooling block (tension etc) from when it was stable to now?
There are voltages applied to the IMC/IO substructure that are not always available in bios, or not obvious to change from auto (dsqs etc). Who knows, but with the "before and after" you describe, the IMC/IO would be the first place I'd look (try increasing the vcore rail... which also handles cache on that platform)


----------



## Hydroplane

Did some testing on my the 32GB 4x8 3200c14, I could boot into Windows at the following settings:

3600 1.45V 14-14-14-34
3800 1.50V 14-14-14-34

I couldn't get 4000 14-14-14-34 to boot even at 1.60V, but wasn't really expecting to either. Maybe I will repeat test at 15-15-15-35 and see if I can go a little higher.

Memory OC seems pretty easy, it either works perfect or will not even load the bios lol.


----------



## The Pook

Hydroplane said:


> Did some testing on my the 32GB 4x8 3200c14, I could boot into Windows at the following settings:
> 
> 3600 1.45V 14-14-14-34
> 3800 1.50V 14-14-14-34
> 
> I couldn't get 4000 14-14-34 to boot even at 1.60V, but wasn't really expecting to either. Maybe I will repeat test at 15-15-15-35 and see if I can go a little higher.
> 
> Memory OC seems pretty easy, it either works perfect or will not even load the bios lol.



Hopefully you're not just adjusting primaries, I was down ~20GB/s writes and about half that on reads in AID64's Memory Benchmark when I was leaving secondaries and tertiaries on auto versus properly setting them


----------



## Hydroplane

The Pook said:


> Hopefully you're not just adjusting primaries, I was down ~20GB/s writes and about half that on reads in AID64's Memory Benchmark when I was leaving secondaries and tertiaries on auto versus properly setting them


I literally only adjusted frequency and voltage lol


----------



## mouacyk

Hydroplane said:


> Did some testing on my the 32GB 4x8 3200c14, I could boot into Windows at the following settings:
> 
> 3600 1.45V 14-14-14-34
> 3800 1.50V 14-14-14-34
> 
> I couldn't get 4000 14-14-14-34 to boot even at 1.60V, but wasn't really expecting to either. Maybe I will repeat test at 15-15-15-35 and see if I can go a little higher.
> 
> Memory OC seems pretty easy, it either works perfect or will not even load the bios lol.


Memory OC is ez. Shut down OCN.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Any recommendations for this RAM overclock? What timings could be improved?


----------



## mouacyk

A benchmark would be appreciated.


----------



## SoldierRBT

mouacyk said:


> A benchmark would be appreciated.


Here is the benchmark.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> I'm sure they are.. white gloves only, no pizza fingers.
> what's the cpuz spd tab on your kit look like? Sounds like someting is/has degraded over time. ?


 @Jpmboy If I max out tREFI I'll get an error in HCI or RamTest eventually. I now have it at 22066 and HCI zero errors.

What's the max you think peeps should run 24/7 and for stress testing?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> NIce! Compare to the 3200c14 kit?
> 
> 
> Aren't these purty. 4800c18 kit.




@Jpmboy do you tweak these fourth timings? I have no idea where to start.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Slightly fixed some timings and RTL


----------



## Hydroplane

Repeated the test at 15-15-15-35, was able to boot Windows at the following:

3467 1.35V
3733 1.40V
3800 1.45V

4000 would not boot at 1.45V-1.6V. Will try 16-16-16-36 next.


----------



## mouacyk

SoldierRBT said:


> Here is the benchmark.


4400/1024 * 8 * 2 = 68.75GB/s is your theoretical max bandwidth.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy* do you tweak these fourth timings? I have no idea where to start.


 Nah - that's outside my know-how. Need @*Praz* to swing by.

I got this 4800c18 kit set to 4700c17 to boot windows (the platform is only rated for what, 4200?) at 1.5V but it will fail any ram testing very quickly. They do run 4000c12-12-12-28 at 1.8V very easily and did so most of late last night. The new trident Royals look promising. gotta get some play time with them.


______________________________________________

lol - booting windows means little... tho that "I made it into windows" feeling can be somewhat satisfying. * This is a ram stability thread, not a OMG I can boot windows thread* as some of these recent posts look to be.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy* If I max out tREFI I'll get an error in HCI or RamTest eventually. I now have it at 22066 and HCI zero errors.
> 
> What's the max you think peeps should run 24/7 and for stress testing?


sorry - missed your Q. You can usually run tREFi at 2x what auto sets the value to (at the OC running). So just toggle refi to auto post and then manually set 2x. It's really odd that refi would cause a failure in testing, since under load charge degradation should be the least of worries. 32767 has been good for 32GB on x299. 22066 was/is good for x99. Z370/390 etc, dual channel in the 30000 range has been good. BUt again, 2x the auto value has not fail me yet. It's hard to test since the effect of tREFi (for stability) is when things are held in ram for long periods. Some say Sleep/Suspend-to-ram problems can come from refi being too high.


----------



## The Pook

DDR4 4000 16-17-17-37 2T 1.45v, VCSSA 1.3v, VCCIO 1.25v


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> If I max out tREFI I'll get an error in HCI or RamTest eventually. I now have it at 22066 and HCI zero errors.
> 
> What's the max you think peeps should run 24/7 and for stress testing?


What I found in developing my Z390 OC is that there was little meaningful difference in AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers for a tREFI value above 20000 and with a bit of an understanding for how that setting works and what it controls in the memory refresh cycle, I realized that it's not necessarily trivial to test and you can't just assume that the normal memory testers will test edge cases of tREFI well. 

So, since I found no meaningful performance increase for going higher than 20000, I decided to set mine there. That was often my strategy with memory timings. If I couldn't see a benefit to pushing the timing value more, then I figured there was no good reason to push it closer to the edge of the cliff. That's sometimes a little complicated to discern when multiple timing values may interact with each other, but not so with tREFI as it pretty much operates independently of the others.

It's also a timing that, when pushed to the edge, could cause instability at higher temperatures where issues aren't seen at lower temperatures (due to an increase in leakage current at higher temperatures). So, if you were to push it as far as possible, you'd have to both be sure you had a very good test for it and should probably test at the max DIMM temperatures you think you will ever have (which would probably occur in highest ambient you will experience). With that level of complication to test and no meaningful benefit to pushing further, I figured a safety margin was a good idea.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> DDR4 4000 16-17-17-37 2T 1.45v, VCSSA 1.3v, VCCIO 1.25v


nice! that board really needs to push that much VCCSA? Not bad or anything, and really repends on the actual applied VSA.


jfriend00 said:


> What I found in developing my Z390 OC is that there was little meaningful difference in AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers for a tREFI value above 20000 and with a bit of an understanding for how that setting works and what it controls in the memory refresh cycle, I realized that it's not necessarily trivial to test and you can't just assume that the normal memory testers will test edge cases of tREFI well.
> 
> So, since I found no meaningful performance increase for going higher than 20000, I decided to set mine there. That was often my strategy with memory timings. If I couldn't see a benefit to pushing the timing value more, then I figured there was no good reason to push it closer to the edge of the cliff. That's sometimes a little complicated to discern when multiple timing values may interact with each other, but not so with tREFI as it pretty much operates independently of the others.
> 
> *It's also a timing that, when pushed to the edge, could cause instability at higher temperatures* where issues aren't seen at lower temperatures (due to an increase in leakage current at higher temperatures). So, if you were to push it as far as possible, you'd have to both be sure you had a very good test for it and should probably test at the max DIMM temperatures you think you will ever have (which would probably occur in highest ambient you will experience). With that level of complication to test and no meaningful benefit to pushing further, I figured a safety margin was a good idea.


^^ this is a very good point! +1


----------



## KedarWolf

jfriend00 said:


> What I found in developing my Z390 OC is that there was little meaningful difference in AIDA64 memory benchmark numbers for a tREFI value above 20000 and with a bit of an understanding for how that setting works and what it controls in the memory refresh cycle, I realized that it's not necessarily trivial to test and you can't just assume that the normal memory testers will test edge cases of tREFI well.
> 
> So, since I found no meaningful performance increase for going higher than 20000, I decided to set mine there. That was often my strategy with memory timings. If I couldn't see a benefit to pushing the timing value more, then I figured there was no good reason to push it closer to the edge of the cliff. That's sometimes a little complicated to discern when multiple timing values may interact with each other, but not so with tREFI as it pretty much operates independently of the others.
> 
> It's also a timing that, when pushed to the edge, could cause instability at higher temperatures where issues aren't seen at lower temperatures (due to an increase in leakage current at higher temperatures). So, if you were to push it as far as possible, you'd have to both be sure you had a very good test for it and should probably test at the max DIMM temperatures you think you will ever have (which would probably occur in highest ambient you will experience). With that level of complication to test and no meaningful benefit to pushing further, I figured a safety margin was a good idea.


At 22066 TREFI I get 59.5k read in AIDA64, at max I get over 62k if I recall right. But maxed out I'll get an error in HCI between 200-300% where now at 22066 I was at 1000% before I left to go to the hospital for my CAT scan.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> sorry - missed your Q. You can usually run tREFi at 2x what auto sets the value to (at the OC running). So just toggle refi to auto post and then manually set 2x. It's really odd that refi would cause a failure in testing, since under load charge degradation should be the least of worries. 32767 has been good for 32GB on x299. 22066 was/is good for x99. Z370/390 etc, dual channel in the 30000 range has been good. BUt again, 2x the auto value has not fail me yet. It's hard to test since the effect of tREFi (for stability) is when things are held in ram for long periods. Some say Sleep/Suspend-to-ram problems can come from refi being too high.


I also asked and posted screeshots about the fourth timings, Jpmboy.


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> nice! that board really needs to push that much VCCSA? Not bad or anything, and really repends on the actual applied VSA.



Thanks! I set it high and left it and forgot to dial it back, I backed down to 1.25v on both VCCIO/SA and dropped a bit to 16-16-16-37. Seems fine but I only ran CB a few times so far. 

If I don't get any issues throughout the day I'll run MemTest overnight again


----------



## mouacyk

The Pook said:


> Thanks! I set it high and left it and forgot to dial it back, I backed down to 1.25v on both VCCIO/SA and dropped a bit to 16-16-16-37. Seems fine but I only ran CB a few times so far.
> 
> If I don't get any issues throughout the day I'll run MemTest overnight again


Even 1.25v on VCCIO/SA might still be too high. I need only 1.15v on both for the following:

4000MHz 16-17-17-37-1T at 1.425v on EVGA Z370 Micro. My kit is 3600C15 though.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf i9 9900k -- 5.1GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ cache -- G.Skill 4x8GB Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4133Mhz 17-17-17-36 2T 1.46v -- 1.27 SA, 1.23 VCCIO -- HCI MemTest 1500%

Sorry about the 32:9 screenshot, only way I could get it all to fit on my 49" Samsung.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf i9 9900k -- 5.1GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ cache -- G.Skill 4x8GB Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4133Mhz 17-17-17-36 2T 1.46v -- 1.26 SA, 1.23 VCCIO -- HCI MemTest 1500%
> 
> Sorry about the 32:9 screenshot, only way I could get it all to fit on my 49" Samsung.


^^ Impressive!


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> At 22066 TREFI I get 59.5k read in AIDA64, at max I get over 62k if I recall right. But maxed out I'll get an error in HCI between 200-300% where now at 22066 I was at 1000% before I left to go to the hospital for my CAT scan.


The benchmark data at a setting where you get errors is not meaningful. If you want to try to push it to 30000 or something like that to try to get another 0.75% on the benchmark, you can and test the heck out of it, but see my previous post about pushing it to the edge and testing at temperature. I personally don't see any reason to push it right to the edge and take stability risks for this little improvement. But, each can make their own decision on that.


----------



## SoldierRBT

SoldierRBT i9 9900k -- 5.2GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ Cache -- G.Skill 2x8GB Trident Z 3200Mhz CL14 @ 4400Mhz 17-18-18-32 2T 1.45v -- 1.23 SA, 1.20 VCCIO -- HCI MemTest 1400%

Any recommendations to improve this overclock?


----------



## ThrashZone

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf i9 9900k -- 5.1GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ cache -- G.Skill 4x8GB Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4133Mhz 17-17-17-36 2T 1.46v -- 1.26 SA, 1.23 VCCIO -- HCI MemTest 1500%
> 
> Sorry about the 32:9 screenshot, only way I could get it all to fit on my 49" Samsung.


Hi,
That screen shot say tREFI is 33066 not 22066.


----------



## KedarWolf

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> That screen shot say tREFI is 33066 not 22066.


Yes, I was wrong. I'm stress tested stable, HCI MemTest 1500% at 33066 tREFI and 8000% RamTest.


----------



## ThrashZone

KedarWolf said:


> Yes, I was wrong. I'm stress tested stable, HCI MemTest 1500% at 33066 tREFI and 8000% RamTest.


Hi,
Yep I'll have to look back some tomorrow and see what @CptSpig came up with he has our kit too or we have his how ever one looks at it


----------



## xSneak

Could someone do me a favor and bench the performance difference they get with their mem oc. The cpu physics test on timespy or firestrike would be good enough, although ffxiv stormblood bench or shogun 2 cpu bench wpuld be nice also. I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to get better ram. I get like 10% better performance with my ram oc compared to stock. I'll provide pictures soon.


----------



## wingman99

xSneak said:


> Could someone do me a favor and bench the performance difference they get with their mem oc. The cpu physics test on timespy or firestrike would be good enough, although ffxiv stormblood bench or shogun 2 cpu bench wpuld be nice also. I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to get better ram. I get like 10% better performance with my ram oc compared to stock. I'll provide pictures soon.


I9 9900k RTX 2080ti memory scaling benchmark. LINK: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ram-speed,5951-3.html


----------



## The Pook

Dropped VCCIO and SA to 1.23v and 16-16-16-36 fails about 10 minutes into RAM Test, doesn't look like she's stable. Tried going back to 1.3v and she still failed. 

I used the machine all day and played GTA V for about an hour without any issues and that game (along with BFV) seems to sniff out unstable CPU and RAM OCs ezpz. Sad days! 

Backed off to this and I'm 45 minutes in at 1.23v on VCCIO/SA without any issues, though. Gonna let it run overnight. 












wingman99 said:


> I9 9900k RTX 2080ti memory scaling benchmark. LINK: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ram-speed,5951-3.html



The issue with most of the benchmarks comparing RAM speed improvements is they set XMP and run secondaries/tertiaries on auto. My 3600 kit @ 3733 with XMP on my Z170 matched my 4133 kit at XMP on my Taichi. 

I'm running RAM Test ATM and about to head to bed in a bit but I'll compare 4000 XMP with subs/tertiaries on auto versus 4000 tweaked in Firestrike/Timespy Physx tomorrow if no one else does.


----------



## xSneak

wingman99 said:


> I9 9900k RTX 2080ti memory scaling benchmark. LINK: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ram-speed,5951-3.html


Thanks for the link, but I dont necessarily trust their results because they probably arent touching the secondary and tertiary timings. They only list the primary timings. To see someone's results who provides the full timings for the ram is more helpful to me.


----------



## wingman99

The Pook said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Dropped VCCIO and SA to 1.23v and 16-16-16-36 fails about 10 minutes into RAM Test, doesn't look like she's stable. Tried going back to 1.3v and she still failed.
> 
> I used the machine all day and played GTA V for about an hour without any issues and that game (along with BFV) seems to sniff out unstable CPU and RAM OCs ezpz. Sad days!
> 
> Backed off to this and I'm 45 minutes in at 1.23v on VCCIO/SA without any issues, though. Gonna let it run overnight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue with most of the benchmarks comparing RAM speed improvements is they set XMP and run secondaries/tertiaries on auto. My 3600 kit @ 3733 with XMP on my Z170 matched my 4133 kit at XMP on my Taichi.
> 
> I'm running RAM Test ATM and about to head to bed in a bit but I'll compare 4000 XMP with subs/tertiaries on auto versus 4000 tweaked in Firestrike/Timespy Physx tomorrow if no one else does.


You don't have a 2080ti so your tests won't be accurate for the OP setup.


----------



## xSneak

wingman99 said:


> You don't have a 2080ti so your tests won't be accurate for the OP setup.


The 3dmark cpu test & shogun 2 cpu bench are completely cpu bound it seems.


----------



## xSneak

Initial Results: 

Shogun 2 CPU
Run1 48.9913 Avg FPS
Run2 48.887 Avg FPS
Stock 2133mhz
45.513 Avg FPS
45.9217 Avg FPS

Timespy Extreme CPU Score
Run1 5758 Avg Sim Time per Frame 60.8 ms
Run2 5751 Avg Sim Time per Frame 60.8 ms
Stock
Run1 5435 Avg sim time per frame 64.4 ms
Run2 5414 64.6ms


Edit: why can't i upload my .png of the ffxiv bench? 

Note: I had increased the vccsa by 1 increment since it failed a restart and it threw errors quickly in hci memtest on the higher vccsa. I dont know if that would give lower scores or not.

FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood Benchmark
Tested on: 3/28/2019 12:38:20 AM
Score: 23782
Average Frame Rate: 158.617
Performance: Extremely High
-Easily capable of running the game on the highest settings.
Loading Times by Scene
Scene #1	1.416 sec
Scene #2	1.646 sec
Scene #3	1.340 sec
Scene #4	1.742 sec
Scene #5	3.414 sec
Scene #6	0.733 sec
Total Loading Time	10.292 sec

FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood Benchmark
Tested on: 3/28/2019 12:47:15 AM
Score: 23934
Average Frame Rate: 159.264
Performance: Extremely High
-Easily capable of running the game on the highest settings.
Loading Times by Scene
Scene #1	1.179 sec
Scene #2	1.702 sec
Scene #3	1.343 sec
Scene #4	1.763 sec
Scene #5	3.434 sec
Scene #6	0.785 sec
Total Loading Time	10.208 sec

Stock Speed
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood Benchmark
Tested on: 3/28/2019 1:27:00 AM
Score: 20860
Average Frame Rate: 143.960
Performance: Extremely High
-Easily capable of running the game on the highest settings.
Loading Times by Scene
Scene #1	1.210 sec
Scene #2	1.671 sec
Scene #3	1.358 sec
Scene #4	1.840 sec
Scene #5	3.604 sec
Scene #6	0.806 sec
Total Loading Time	10.489 sec


----------



## BradleyW

What is the safe voltage limit for the VCCIO/VCCIA for 24/7 use? Z390, 9900K, 4000MHz RAM.

Thank you.


----------



## jfriend00

The Pook said:


> Dropped VCCIO and SA to 1.23v and 16-16-16-36 fails about 10 minutes into RAM Test, doesn't look like she's stable. Tried going back to 1.3v and she still failed.
> 
> I used the machine all day and played GTA V for about an hour without any issues and that game (along with BFV) seems to sniff out unstable CPU and RAM OCs ezpz. Sad days!
> 
> Backed off to this and I'm 45 minutes in at 1.23v on VCCIO/SA without any issues, though. Gonna let it run overnight.


I think you've seen my numbers before, but I'm running a 2x8 B-die set on Z390 Taichi at 4000MHz and spent a lot of time optimizing primaries, secondaries and tertiaries and it passes multiple overnight RAMTest and MemTest86 runs. You can see from this where some opportunities for tighter timings might be.

DRAM Voltage 1.45V
VCCIO 1.200V
VCCSA 1.200V


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

*CPU* - i7 8086k(Not Scalped)
*Memory* - 4500Mhz 19-19-19-39


----------



## swddeluxx

*fly1ngh1gh* :winksmil1

sweet !, is it Corsair Vengeance LPX Red 16Gb 2x8 (*CMK16GX4M2B4266C19R*) RAM?


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

swddeluxx said:


> *fly1ngh1gh* :winksmil1
> sweet !, is it Corsair Vengeance LPX Red 16Gb 2x8 (*CMK16GX4M2B4266C19R*) RAM?


Yes:yessir:


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf i9 9900k -- 5.1GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ cache -- G.Skill 4x8GB Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4133Mhz 17-17-17-36 2T 1.45v -- 1.25 SA, 1.23 VCCIO -- HCI MemTest 400%

Since lowering tREFI to 33066 I need less voltage for the same timings and speed. But the CPU voltage is only lower as I put the Vcore Loadline Protection from Low to Medium.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ Impressive!


 @Jpmboy

Do you do anything with these fourth timings?

I have no idea where to start.


----------



## mouacyk

KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> Do you do anything with these fourth timings?
> 
> I have no idea where to start.


Clear 1 week from your calendar and stock up on Mountain Dew or coffee.


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> Clear 1 week from your calendar and stock up on Mountain Dew or coffee.


nah. Jack Daniels. 



KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> Do you do anything with these fourth timings?
> I have no idea where to start.


Yes I do... Auto!


----------



## NIK1

Just wondering whats the best memory to overclock to put in a Asus Z270 Apex.I have GSkill Rgb 3600 now with two 8 gig sticks and the best I can OC this to is 3868..I did get it to boot to 4000 with very high timings and could not make it stable no matter what voltage I put in.Is the GSkill Rgb memory a unstable overclocker compared to 3600 non Rgb mem,or is it just my 7700k has a weak memory controller.Any thoughts...


----------



## The Pook

is tCWL tied to tWTR_L/tWTR_S or is my BIOS bugged? If I set tCWL to anything <15 then tWTR_L/tWTR_S change from what I set (7 & 2) to 9 & 4. 

It doesn't fail memory training or give any errors, it just changes the numbers and boots normally. If I set tCWL to 15 or higher then I can set whatever tWTR_L/tWTR_S value I want though 




jfriend00 said:


> I think you've seen my numbers before, but I'm running a 2x8 B-die set on Z390 Taichi at 4000MHz and spent a lot of time optimizing primaries, secondaries and tertiaries and it passes multiple overnight RAMTest and MemTest86 runs. You can see from this where some opportunities for tighter timings might be.
> 
> DRAM Voltage 1.45V
> VCCIO 1.200V
> VCCSA 1.200V



Yeah, I stole your timings and couldn't get things stable so I started over and just doing it myself. Worked as a good baseline though


----------



## kignt

The Pook said:


> is tCWL tied to tWTR_L/tWTR_S or is my BIOS bugged? If I set tCWL to anything <15 then tWTR_L/tWTR_S change from what I set (7 & 2) to 9 & 4.
> 
> It doesn't fail memory training or give any errors, it just changes the numbers and boots normally. If I set tCWL to 15 or higher then I can set whatever tWTR_L/tWTR_S value I want though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I stole your timings and couldn't get things stable so I started over and just doing it myself. Worked as a good baseline though


tCWL + 6 + tWTR_L = tWRRD_sg
tCWL + 6 + tWTR_S = tWRRD_dg

Seems, if manually set the WRRD's then wont matter what WTR's are set to. My exp is limited to asrock z370 taichi's bios


----------



## The Pook

kignt said:


> tCWL + 6 + tWTR_L = tWRRD_sg
> tCWL + 6 + tWTR_S = tWRRD_dg
> 
> Seems, if manually set the WRRD's then wont matter what WTR's are set to. My exp is limited to asrock z370 taichi's bios



Makes sense, thanks!


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

NIK1 said:


> Is the GSkill Rgb memory a unstable overclocker compared to 3600 non Rgb mem,or is it just my 7700k has a weak memory controller.Any thoughts...


I think there is more luck dependent. Although rgb can produce additional noise. It is likely that you may have a weak memory controller, because the motherboard you have is not a narrow neck). The maximum that I get on the z170 chipset is 3866Mhz on two selected sets b-die. At 4000Mhz I was able to run, but there was no stability.


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Just wondering whats the best memory to overclock to put in a Asus Z270 Apex.I have GSkill Rgb 3600 now with two 8 gig sticks and the best I can OC this to is 3868..I did get it to boot to 4000 with very high timings and could not make it stable no matter what voltage I put in.Is the GSkill Rgb memory a unstable overclocker compared to 3600 non Rgb mem,or is it just my 7700k has a weak memory controller.Any thoughts...


3866 is a sweetspot for the Apex and a 7700K. C16 and c15 shuld work pretty easily. But yeah, the GS RGB sticks are thought to be more "complicated" to OC than the non-RGB.


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep I'll have to look back some tomorrow and see what @CptSpig came up with he has our kit too or we have his how ever one looks at it


The platform and processor have a lot to do with how far you can push your memory.


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> 3866 is a sweetspot for the Apex and a 7700K. C16 and c15 shuld work pretty easily. But yeah, the GS RGB sticks are thought to be more "complicated" to OC than the non-RGB.


Thanks for the info..My memory is G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR..I have it running stable with 1.47v at 15 15 15 36 1T.I guess I will just keep it here then.


----------



## zhrooms

bxcounter said:


> G.Skill Trident Z F4-4266C19D-16GTZR / VCCIO > 1.15000 / VCCSA > 1.23125


 
Copied your timings, and improved them just a little. I found it very interesting you could set six of the third timings to zero, and four of the RTL/IOL as well.

G.Skill 2x8GB TridentZ RGB 3600MHz 16-16-16-36 kit.

https://hwbot.org/submission/4112918

I could definitely have gotten a higher score but didn't feel like spending more time tweaking since it's pointless in the end, far from a usable daily overclock.












SoldierRBT said:


>


 
Also tagging you since the speed & timings are similar.


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> Aren't these purty. 4800c18 kit.


I have these kits and it's too beautiful :wubsmiley


----------



## The Pook

xSneak said:


> Could someone do me a favor and bench the performance difference they get with their mem oc. The cpu physics test on timespy or firestrike would be good enough, although ffxiv stormblood bench or shogun 2 cpu bench wpuld be nice also. I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to get better ram. I get like 10% better performance with my ram oc compared to stock. I'll provide pictures soon.



TimeSpy Physics: 

4000 with tweaked timings: *11721*
4000 with XMP + auto subs: *10953*

Not quite the 10% you're after, but my "tweaked timings" aren't the best I can do. Still testing. If all you do is game I wouldn't upgrade, I upgraded for HWBOT and it still was a hard sell.


----------



## xSneak

The Pook said:


> TimeSpy Physics:
> 
> 4000 with tweaked timings: *11721*
> 4000 with XMP + auto subs: *10953*
> 
> Not quite the 10% you're after, but my "tweaked timings" aren't the best I can do. Still testing. If all you do is game I wouldn't upgrade, I upgraded for HWBOT and it still was a hard sell.



Thanks. I think i need another 9-11% cpu single thread performance to get a solid 240 fps in pubg... I have a 32gb kit that i could sell and buy a high end 16gb kit ao ive been debating it. My 9900k bottlenecks the 2080 ti on that game around 210- 220fps. I havent benched the game yet using a replay file aince ive been busy, but i suspect it is really sensitive to memory speeds especially the min framerate when streaming.

I was looking for the stock 2133mhz score vs the tuned score.
I was playing around with the timings last night and set tight rtls at 100mhz lower and got almost 1 fps on shogun 2 cpu bench (+2 percent). Thats was going from 42.3 ns latency in aida to 40.2ns, so i think i could get a decent boost if i were to get a kit that ran at 36ns.


----------



## jfriend00

zhrooms said:


> I found it very interesting you could set six of the third timings to zero, and four of the RTL/IOL as well.


The _dr suffix is for "different rank" on same channel. If you have two single rank DIMMs, then you don't have a different rank on the same channel so those timings are not used at all. These would be used if you had dual rank DIMMs (like 2x16GB - a 16GB DIMM is a dual rank DIMM).

The _dd suffix is for "different dimm" on same channel. If you have two DIMMs, one per channel, then you don't have a different DIMM on the same channel so those timings are not used at all. These would be used if you had multiple DIMMs per channel (like 4x8GB in a dual channel board).

Timings that are not used can obviously be set to 0.


----------



## zhrooms

jfriend00 said:


> The *_dr* suffix is for "*different rank*" on same channel. If you have two single rank DIMMs, then you don't have a different rank on the same channel so those timings are not used at all. These would be used if you had dual rank DIMMs (like 2x16GB - a 16GB DIMM is a dual rank DIMM).
> 
> The *_dd* suffix is for "*different dimm*" on same channel. If you have two DIMMs, one per channel, then you don't have a different DIMM on the same channel so those timings are not used at all. These would be used if you had multiple DIMMs per channel (like 4x8GB in a dual channel board).
> 
> Timings that are not used can obviously be set to 0.


 
Yeah I figured that out, that they're simply not used on dual dimm boards / dual rank sticks.

Thanks for the clarification on the names, DR & DD.


----------



## xSneak

The Pook said:


> is tCWL tied to tWTR_L/tWTR_S or is my BIOS bugged? If I set tCWL to anything <15 then tWTR_L/tWTR_S change from what I set (7 & 2) to 9 & 4.
> 
> It doesn't fail memory training or give any errors, it just changes the numbers and boots normally. If I set tCWL to 15 or higher then I can set whatever tWTR_L/tWTR_S value I want though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I stole your timings and couldn't get things stable so I started over and just doing it myself. Worked as a good baseline though


On my board they both will lower the tertiary timing that they are linked to (tWRRD_sg, tWRRD_dg). If you lower tcwl, maybe your bios is compensating by increasing the twtr timing to maintain stability?


----------



## bigfootnz

Can somebody explain why when I set tRDC to 15 and tRP to 14 in bios, in Win both timing will have value 15. Or if I set tRDC to 16 and tRP to 15, both timings in Win will have value 16. For some reason tRP is always same as a tRDC


----------



## xSneak

I ordered a 16gb kit..... Will provide a report on it when i'm done. How much of a difference is there between the new 10 layer pcb kits like g.skill royal / Corsair plat RGB, and the 8 layer pcb (vegeance lpx)? 
I originally got 32GB for future proofing and thinking I would be doing videos editing for youtube, but turns out all I need is raw speed for gaming ^_^ .

This is what I was able to get with my dual rank kit. I'll do another post where I provide the benchmark numbers and the overclocking experience with it. There's not much info out there on dual rank kits.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

tistou77 said:


> I have these kits and it's too beautiful :wubsmiley


It's cool, but it's a pity that you do not show the results of overclocking


xSneak said:


> I ordered a 16gb kit..... Will provide a report on it when i'm done. How much of a difference is there between the new 10 layer pcb kits like g.skill royal / Corsair plat RGB, and the 8 layer pcb (vegeance lpx)?
> I originally got 32GB for future proofing and thinking I would be doing videos editing for youtube, but turns out all I need is raw speed for gaming ^_^ .
> This is what I was able to get with my dual rank kit. I'll do another post where I provide the benchmark numbers and the overclocking experience with it. There's not much info out there on dual rank kits.


It will be interesting to see the result of royal.


----------



## Jpmboy

8086K/Apex X with shinny Royals. 1.5V vdimm They will boot and run 4700c17... with no problems, but require in the high 1.35V VSA to hold (the auto rules push 1.45V VSA and 1.4V vccio at that frequency). PLL bandwidth ("CPU PLL OC") at 0.9V! (very low). tWR is 16, not 11 as shown in ATC.

4600c17 with pretty tight secondaries only needs 1.3V Vsa AND 1.2875v VCCIO with this cpu.
Tried them on my Max 11E/9700K also (this is a 4 slot dual channel config, with the new MemOk system) on that the 2 4800c18 sticks will boot XMP (of all things) but fail GSAT quickly (much faster than ramtest).
Also... these royals run 4000c12 at only 1.8V, and 4133c12 at 1.85V. Pretty good!
A 3600c15 kit goes back in the Apex X, I have a cheapo HyperX 4x8GB 3000c16 kit for the Max11E/9700K. The Royals are for an up coming 2 slot board. 
Oh - ASUS Aura controls the LEDs perfectly (can't say the same for the HyperX 4x8GB kit  )
These are not on any QVL (of course, no current platform is rated near this frequency)


----------



## Jpmboy

here's 4700c18. not stable, yet.


----------



## The Pook

nice, almost makes me almost wish I spent more on a board so I can hit clocks like that (or at least try)


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> nice, almost makes me almost wish I spent more on a board so I can hit clocks like that (or at least try)


 eh, the reality is that the current 1151 and 2066 socket CPUs and chipsets really are not up to speed to manage these frequencies at sane IO and VSa voltages (stable I mean, this has nothing to do with so-called 'WR" ram frequencies you and I see on the BOT). Kinda like having a 650hp ZR-1 and 65mph speed limits (not that I know anyone with that problem  )

That said... your Taichi is a very strong mB.


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> Kinda like having a 650hp ZR-1 and 65mph speed limits (not that I know anyone with that problem  )



ZR1 is nice, but I'd still rather have your GNX


----------



## Jpmboy

oh yeah, it is the Darth Vader of cars... even sounded like vader when it spools up.

But alas, I sold it to an Indy guy. Never should'a


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> But alas, I sold it to an Indy guy. Never should'a



don't tell me that! :sad-smile

you lost at least 5% of your cool points.

I've wanted a GNX or a GMC Typhoon/Syclone for a long time, but an unmolested one is outta my price range for a toy. But those boosted 3.6/4.3L sound nice


----------



## Jpmboy

oh memories... the typhoon and syclone are nearly uncontrollable, like the GN was (had one of those too as a daily). At least the GNX had a panhard rod, ladder bar and extra crossbar stabilizers among other things to help keep the front end forward. Amazing tho, the GNX was $24K new... selling for 5X or more.


we're waaay OT.


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> oh memories... the typhoon and syclone are nearly uncontrollable, like the GN was (had one of those too as a daily). At least the GNX had a panhard rod, ladder bar and extra crossbar stabilizers among other things to help keep the front end forward. Amazing tho, the GNX was $24K new... selling for 5X or more.
> 
> 
> we're waaay OT.


Aaah! McLaren ... they need to get back on the F1 fast track again like before


----------



## xSneak

fly1ngh1gh said:


> It's cool, but it's a pity that you do not show the results of overclocking
> 
> It will be interesting to see the result of royal.


Jpmboy has the royal kit that he posted below. 
I got a high end vengeance lpx kit since I need the low profile.
Edit: phone only quoted half the op.


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> 8086K/Apex X with shinny Royals. 1.5V vdimm They will boot and run 4700c17... with no problems, but require in the high 1.35V VSA to hold (the auto rules push 1.45V VSA and 1.4V vccio at that frequency). PLL bandwidth ("CPU PLL OC") at 0.9V! (very low). tWR is 16, not 11 as shown in ATC.
> 
> 4600c17 with pretty tight secondaries only needs 1.3V Vsa AND 1.2875v VCCIO with this cpu.
> Tried them on my Max 11E/9700K also (this is a 4 slot dual channel config, with the new MemOk system) on that the 2 4800c18 sticks will boot XMP (of all things) but fail GSAT quickly (much faster than ramtest).
> Also... these royals run 4000c12 at only 1.8V, and 4133c12 at 1.85V. Pretty good!
> A 3600c15 kit goes back in the Apex X, I have a cheapo HyperX 4x8GB 3000c16 kit for the Max11E/9700K. The Royals are for an up coming 2 slot board.
> Oh - ASUS Aura controls the LEDs perfectly (can't say the same for the HyperX 4x8GB kit  )
> These are not on any QVL (of course, no current platform is rated near this frequency)


I thought PLL Bandwidth (CPU PLL OC) is only for subzero / cold bugs?
how is this affecting your RAM or normal overclock? Benefit of setting it at 0.9v instead of 1.21v (default?)


----------



## tistou77

fly1ngh1gh said:


> It's cool, but it's a pity that you do not show the results of overclocking
> 
> It will be interesting to see the result of royal.


Currently they are on my build X299, and therefore at 4000 C16 (1.37v)


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> I thought PLL Bandwidth (CPU PLL OC) is only for subzero / cold bugs?
> how is this affecting your RAM or normal overclock? Benefit of setting it at 0.9v instead of 1.21v (default?)


 phase lock loop can/may help with high frequency component ... phasing: core, bclk, dram, pcie... etc. 
Thing is, Auto can run quite high at high frequencies... like 1.7-ish volts.


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> phase lock loop can/may help with high frequency component ... phasing: core, bclk, dram, pcie... etc.
> Thing is, Auto can run quite high at high frequencies... like 1.7-ish volts.


Thank you Jpmboy,
that makes sense.
But then what's the difference between "CPU PLL" and "CPU PLL OC?"
Intel spec sheets say default for CPU PLL is 1.0-1.02v, and CPU PLL OC is 1.25v (or VDDQ).


----------



## Hydroplane

This morning I was able to boot 4200 16-16-16-36 1.5v into Windows and use it, this afternoon I can't boot 4000 at any setting at all, weird lol


----------



## The Pook

Hydroplane said:


> This morning I was able to boot 4200 16-16-16-36 1.5v into Windows and use it, this afternoon I can't boot 4000 at any setting at all, weird lol



Same issue with my Taichi. 4133 @ 16-17-17-35 was stable for about a week and one day it just decided it didn't want to boot at it anymore. Thankfully 4000 still works and been playing at that but I want 4133 back


----------



## Hydroplane

The Pook said:


> Same issue with my Taichi. 4133 @ 16-17-17-35 was stable for about a week and one day it just decided it didn't want to boot at it anymore. Thankfully 4000 still works and been playing at that but I want 4133 back


Maybe my IMC just doesn't like 4000+ ram, not sure if that is typical for X299. Will have to swap these sticks with my Z390 (if my motherboard ever gets here) to try 

I'm using 3800 15-15-15-35 1.50V right now, but it flunked P95 blend ASAP, gonna try bumping it up to 16 timings. These are two separate kits so that might not help lol, but it was $150 cheaper than a single 32gb kit since they were on sale


----------



## Benjiw

Does anyone here overclock their cache or ring clocks? is there any point? mine is 3.8ghz stock with the 6700k in a z170 sabertooth, it requires a massive bump in voltage to get 4.57ghz cache stable. I'm not too bothered but just wondering if its worth it, i've already spiked the vcore up to run 3200mhz speed RAM.

Another question, sorry guys bare with me I'm new to the whole RAM OC deal, I bought ramtest thats on the front page, I've ran it a few times and it's found no errors granted i've not left it over night and the longest has been for 1.5hrs. How long in general is best to determine if your RAM is indeed stable?

I've currently gone back to 3200mhz like said where as before i was at 3500mhz but i couldn't get it to stay stable there. Is it normal to pump more vcore into the CPU to make higher speed ram run?


----------



## djgar

Benjiw said:


> *Does anyone here overclock their cache or ring clocks? is there any point?* mine is 3.8ghz stock with the 6700k in a z170 sabertooth, it requires a massive bump in voltage to get 4.57ghz cache stable. I'm not too bothered but just wondering if its worth it, i've already spiked the vcore up to run 3200mhz speed RAM.
> 
> Another question, sorry guys bare with me I'm new to the whole RAM OC deal, I bought ramtest thats on the front page, I've ran it a few times and it's found no errors granted i've not left it over night and the longest has been for 1.5hrs. How long in general is best to determine if your RAM is indeed stable?
> 
> I've currently gone back to 3200mhz like said where as before i was at 3500mhz but i couldn't get it to stay stable there. Is it normal to pump more vcore into the CPU to make higher speed ram run?


I thought everybody OC'ed their cache/ring ... it's fun?


----------



## Benjiw

djgar said:


> I thought everybody OC'ed their cache/ring ... it's fun?


So it's worth it? Good for game performance too? windows does feel a bit snappier to me but might be placebo effect.


----------



## The Pook

Benjiw said:


> Does anyone here overclock their cache or ring clocks? is there any point? mine is 3.8ghz stock with the 6700k in a z170 sabertooth, it requires a massive bump in voltage to get 4.57ghz cache stable. I'm not too bothered but just wondering if its worth it, i've already spiked the vcore up to run 3200mhz speed RAM.
> 
> Another question, sorry guys bare with me I'm new to the whole RAM OC deal, I bought ramtest thats on the front page, I've ran it a few times and it's found no errors granted i've not left it over night and the longest has been for 1.5hrs. How long in general is best to determine if your RAM is indeed stable?
> 
> I've currently gone back to 3200mhz like said where as before i was at 3500mhz but i couldn't get it to stay stable there. Is it normal to pump more vcore into the CPU to make higher speed ram run?



Cache does affect performance, but don't sacrifice CPU OC for it. 

I've failed after the 4-5 hour mark on RamTest plenty of times. I aim for at least 8 hours before I call my RAM OC stable, others are happy with less. Up to you. 

If it can pass an hour it's plenty enough for some benchmark runs which it seems what most people are content with


----------



## Benjiw

The Pook said:


> Cache does affect performance, but don't sacrifice CPU OC for it.
> 
> I've failed after the 4-5 hour mark on RamTest plenty of times. I aim for at least 8 hours before I call my RAM OC stable, others are happy with less. Up to you.
> 
> If it can pass an hour it's plenty enough for some benchmark runs which it seems what most people are content with


I mainly use my pc for graphic design work and gaming, so if it needs longer i'm fine with that, 8 hours is a long time but i guess its the nature of the part. I've tried to get 4.8ghz stable loads of times but sadly never seems to work, maybe i'm doing something wrong, I don't know, just got to keep experimenting I guess.


----------



## The Pook

Just leave RAM Test running overnight while you sleep, it's what I do. ezpz


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> Thank you Jpmboy,
> that makes sense.
> But then what's the difference between "CPU PLL" and "CPU PLL OC?"
> Intel spec sheets say default for CPU PLL is 1.0-1.02v, and CPU PLL OC is 1.25v (or VDDQ).


view it like how system agent works with bus clock (bclk) vs bclk signal amplitude. maybe not the best analogy for signal alignment, we need an EE like Praz to teach us! 


Hydroplane said:


> This morning I was able to boot 4200 16-16-16-36 1.5v into Windows and use it, this afternoon I can't boot 4000 at any setting at all, weird lol





Hydroplane said:


> Maybe my IMC just doesn't like 4000+ ram, not sure if that is typical for X299. Will have to swap these sticks with my Z390 (if my motherboard ever gets here) to try
> 
> I'm using 3800 15-15-15-35 1.50V right now, but it flunked P95 blend ASAP, gonna try bumping it up to 16 timings. These are two separate kits so that might not help lol, but it was $150 cheaper than a single 32gb kit since they were on sale


I suspect 4200 was just not fully stable. Part of stability "assurance" is to include ac power cycles (cold and warm starts/training). And yes, 4200 as a 24/7 on x299 is pushing the envelope. lol - when I give a rig to a family member, I basically do every silly thing I can to it before... we'll I still can't get one nephew to STOP HITTING the clrcmos button on his Apex IX which has an NVMe raid 0 boot drive on a DIMM.2 cared (csm settings are lost). Will never do that again...


Benjiw said:


> Does anyone here overclock their cache or ring clocks? is there any point? mine is 3.8ghz stock with the 6700k in a z170 sabertooth, it requires a massive bump in voltage to get 4.57ghz cache stable. I'm not too bothered but just wondering if its worth it, i've already spiked the vcore up to run 3200mhz speed RAM.
> 
> Another question, sorry guys bare with me I'm new to the whole RAM OC deal, I bought ramtest thats on the front page, I've ran it a few times and it's found no errors granted i've not left it over night and the longest has been for 1.5hrs. How long in general is best to determine if your RAM is indeed stable?
> 
> I've currently gone back to 3200mhz like said where as before i was at 3500mhz but i couldn't get it to stay stable there. Is it normal to pump more vcore into the CPU to make higher speed ram run?


the easiest way to squeeze what you can from cache without introducing more voltage requirements, is to just OC the core (make sure it is stable) and then increase the cache multiplier until it's not stable anymore... in effect, know the cache multi the necessary core voltage can carry "for free". Everything above that is gravy.


----------



## Jpmboy

from the other side of the spectrum:
9700K @ 5.0 cache at 4.6, vdimm 1.4V, sa 1.2V, vccio 1.195V. cpu pll oc on auto (1.7V!)

9700K/Max11Extreme 4x8GB 3000c15 HyperX kit (SK Hynix) at 3466c16 and 3200c15 (for some reason the 3200c15 just feels quicker). I am impressed with the 9700K performance. Things just happen very quickly on this rig. OS drive is a Samsung SM961.


----------



## jfriend00

Hydroplane said:


> This morning I was able to boot 4200 16-16-16-36 1.5v into Windows and use it, this afternoon I can't boot 4000 at any setting at all, weird lol


This is probably because for some reason it "trained" differently on some future boot. If you lock down all the secondary and tertiary timings on a stable, well tested configuration, then it isn't free to train those differently on some future boot. When you are pushing a memory OC near limits and at a speed above which the board trains easily or well, then it is important to lock down as many things as possible (as few timings on auto as possible) once you have a stable configuration you like. 

For this reason, I keep a running log of ASRock Timing Configurator screenshots in Evernote (every time I change someting) so I always know exactly what I was previously running and can more easily get back there or see if something has changed. And, an advantage of Evernote is that I can easily insert screenshots from the operating computer and I can access Evernote from another computer if I'm having trouble booting.


----------



## Hydroplane

jfriend00 said:


> This is probably because for some reason it "trained" differently on some future boot. If you lock down all the secondary and tertiary timings on a stable, well tested configuration, then it isn't free to train those differently on some future boot. When you are pushing a memory OC near limits and at a speed above which the board trains easily or well, then it is important to lock down as many things as possible (as few timings on auto as possible) once you have a stable configuration you like.
> 
> For this reason, I keep a running log of ASRock Timing Configurator screenshots in Evernote (every time I change someting) so I always know exactly what I was previously running and can more easily get back there or see if something has changed. And, an advantage of Evernote is that I can easily insert screenshots from the operating computer and I can access Evernote from another computer if I'm having trouble booting.


It's entirely possible, when I try a new setting it takes a little longer to boot to bios, so I think it's training the memory. Just trying not to have too many variables for now. There are like a hundred settings in there lol



Jpmboy said:


> I suspect 4200 was just not fully stable. Part of stability "assurance" is to include ac power cycles (cold and warm starts/training). And yes, 4200 as a 24/7 on x299 is pushing the envelope. lol - when I give a rig to a family member, I basically do every silly thing I can to it before... we'll I still can't get one nephew to STOP HITTING the clrcmos button on his Apex IX which has an NVMe raid 0 boot drive on a DIMM.2 cared (csm settings are lost). Will never do that again...


I'm sure 4200 wasn't fully stable lol, just booting into windows is not an adequate stability test. Well, it will tell you at the very least that your OC is unstable  Just interesting that it booted windows at 4200 c16, I browsed the web for half an hour. Then it never booted anything 4000 or more ever again lol

I stress tested 3800c16 1.5V and got it stable. That should be a nice improvement over 3200c14. Although I've used 3600c14 for benching and it worked, never stability tested it. That might be even faster overall.

I also have these 4133c19 sticks I bought for Z390. I could test them against my 3200c14, but 2 dimms vs. 4 mismatched ones wouldn't be fair


----------



## Jpmboy

Hydroplane said:


> It's entirely possible, when I try a new setting it takes a little longer to boot to bios, so I think it's training the memory. Just trying not to have too many variables for now. There are like a hundred settings in there lol
> I'm sure 4200 wasn't fully stable lol, just booting into windows is not an adequate stability test. Well, it will tell you at the very least that your OC is unstable  Just interesting that it booted windows at 4200 c16, I browsed the web for half an hour. Then it never booted anything 4000 or more ever again lol
> 
> I stress tested 3800c16 1.5V and got it stable. That should be a nice improvement over 3200c14. Although I've used 3600c14 for benching and it worked, never stability tested it. That might be even faster overall.
> 
> I also have these 4133c19 sticks I bought for Z390. I could test them against my 3200c14, but 2 dimms vs. 4 mismatched ones wouldn't be fair


2 vs 4... depends on what you are shooting for. frequency and latency vs bandwidth. what about 4000 c16-17-17 with the 3200c14s. 1.40 to 1.45V should carry it. the 3200c14s are basically the same bin as 3600c16.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> view it like how system agent works with bus clock (bclk) vs bclk signal amplitude. maybe not the best analogy for signal alignment, we need an EE like Praz to teach us!
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect 4200 was just not fully stable. Part of stability "assurance" is to include ac power cycles (cold and warm starts/training). And yes, 4200 as a 24/7 on x299 is pushing the envelope. lol - when I give a rig to a family member, I basically do every silly thing I can to it before... we'll I still can't get one nephew to STOP HITTING the clrcmos button on his Apex IX which has an NVMe raid 0 boot drive on a DIMM.2 cared (csm settings are lost). Will never do that again...
> 
> the easiest way to squeeze what you can from cache without introducing more voltage requirements, is to just OC the core (make sure it is stable) and then increase the cache multiplier until it's not stable anymore... in effect, know the cache multi the necessary core voltage can carry "for free". Everything above that is gravy.


 @Jpmboy would you run this RAM voltage and SA 24/7? SA 1.27v, RAM 1.46v Training and Eventual? Or am I risking degrading my IMC in the long term?

I ask because I'm fully stable with them and get these really good timings, better than 1.23 VCCIO, 1.25v SA and 1.45v RAM Eventual in previous posts.

I've recently read on a 9900k up to 1.3v SA and VCCIO is okay, and my VCCIO is 1.23.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy* would you *run this RAM voltage and SA 24/7? SA 1.27v, RAM 1.46v *Training and Eventual? Or am I risking degrading my IMC in the long term?
> 
> I ask because I'm fully stable with them and get these really good timings, better than 1.23 VCCIO, 1.25v SA and 1.45v RAM Eventual in previous posts.
> 
> I've recently read on a 9900k up to 1.3v SA and VCCIO is okay, and my VCCIO is 1.23.


should be fine. But it really _needs _1.27V SA? 1.2V fails?


----------



## The Pook

DDR4-4000 15-17-17-34 2T @ 1.5v, VCCIO + SA @ 1.24v


----------



## Hydroplane

The Pook said:


> DDR4-4000 15-17-17-34 2T @ 1.5v, VCCIO + SA @ 1.24v


Nice, you are on 4133c19 if I remember correctly? Hopefully mine will do the same if my Z390 Dark ever gets here lol


----------



## The Pook

Hydroplane said:


> Nice, you are on 4133c19 if I remember correctly? Hopefully mine will do the same if my Z390 Dark ever gets here lol



Yep, same kit you bought.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> DDR4-4000 15-17-17-34 2T @ 1.5v, VCCIO + SA @ 1.24v


nice latency! :thumb:


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> nice latency! :thumb:



Thanks! I'm aiming for >60GB/s on read/copy but it doesn't look like that's going to happen @ 4000.

sad days


----------



## Benjiw

Any tips? Am I going in the right direction? I've tried more raw speed but it just won't stay stable.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=262388&thumb=1


----------



## Zemach

Gskill 3600 CL 16 RGB OC 4800 CL 19 22 22 48 1.55 IO 1.3 SA 1.4


----------



## The Pook

Benjiw said:


> Any tips? Am I going in the right direction? I've tried more raw speed but it just won't stay stable.
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=262388&thumb=1



Drop tRFC to ~300 and your tWTR_L and tFAW probably could be halved. twRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg are high too. 

set tREFI to 50-60K.


----------



## Benjiw

The Pook said:


> Drop tRFC to ~300 and your tWTR_L and tFAW probably could be halved. twRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg are high too.
> 
> set tREFI to 50-60K.


My sticks will not boot with tRFC under 480? Any tips there? tREFI set to 50k atm but isn't that a little too high? My system is a 6700k Z170 board etc


----------



## The Pook

Benjiw said:


> My sticks will not boot with tRFC under 480? Any tips there? tREFI set to 50k atm but isn't that a little too high? My system is a 6700k Z170 board etc



for tREFI higher is better.


----------



## ChaosAD

The Pook said:


> Thanks! I'm aiming for >60GB/s on read/copy but it doesn't look like that's going to happen @ 4000.
> 
> sad days


You can try my settings, these are stable at GSAT for 1h at 1.45v but fail at HCI memtest. I have to run 4000 16-17-17 to be stable at HCI also.


----------



## The Pook

ChaosAD said:


> You can try my settings, these are stable at GSAT for 1h at 1.45v but fail at HCI memtest. I have to run 4000 16-17-17 to be stable at HCI also.



Probably should have said I want >60GB/s _stable_ at 4000  

I can't post at anything lower than 15-17-17 @ 4000 anyway, but after about a week of my board refusing to post above 4100 (and being unstable above 4000) it decided it wanted to boot and be stable(?) at 4133 again. Only ran MemTest for 2 hours so far but I'll run it overnight and see.


----------



## kignt

Benjiw said:


> My sticks will not boot with tRFC under 480? Any tips there? tREFI set to 50k atm but isn't that a little too high? My system is a 6700k Z170 board etc


Likely hynix chip type. Their tRFC clock cycle is usually around ~300ns or higher (refer to chart), and frequency to around 3400 or 3600 MHz


----------



## Benjiw

kignt said:


> Likely hynix chip type. Their tRFC clock cycle is usually around ~300ns or higher (refer to chart), and frequency to around 3400 or 3600 MHz


I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance, but I don't quite understand the graph


----------



## kignt

Benjiw said:


> I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance, but I don't quite understand the graph


The top highlighted row is memory frequency in MHz. The first column is tRFC in ns (time). The numbers inside the chart is tRFC values (clock cycles). Example, at 3000 MHz, tRFC of 450 is running at 300 ns.


----------



## Benjiw

kignt said:


> The top highlighted row is memory frequency in MHz. The first column is tRFC in ns (time). The numbers inside the chart is tRFC values (clock cycles). Example, at 3000 MHz, tRFC of 450 is running at 300 ns.


So just keep trying those values until fails to boot?

EDIT:
I can't boot below 476 tRFC


----------



## kignt

Benjiw said:


> So just keep trying those values until fails to boot?
> 
> EDIT:
> I can't boot below 476 tRFC


Yep, try until fails tests. If it's for 3400 MHz (hynix afr/mfr), tighter than 510 tRFC should need more voltage. I would stop up to 1.45v, preferably sooner


----------



## Benjiw

kignt said:


> Yep, try until fails tests. If it's for 3400 MHz (hynix afr/mfr), tighter than 510 tRFC should need more voltage. I would stop up to 1.45v, preferably sooner


Its sat at 1.6v for now, will reduce it now while i play around with other settings. tRFC is sat at 474 right now, need to test to confirm stability.


----------



## Benjiw

Ok so here's where I'm at right now, going to call it. I'll test stability and poke around more in a week or so. I haven't touched tertiary timings yet as you can see, but for a complete noob, i can't be doing too bad?


----------



## Jpmboy

Zemach said:


> Gskill 3600 CL 16 RGB OC 4800 CL 19 22 22 48 1.55 IO 1.3 SA 1.4


Nice. if you can live with 1.4V VSA (which when measured is probably higher) that's fast stuff (how about AID64 memory bench?). :thumb:


----------



## The Pook

Benjiw said:


> Ok so here's where I'm at right now, going to call it. I'll test stability and poke around more in a week or so. I haven't touched tertiary timings yet as you can see, but for a complete noob, i can't be doing too bad?



tWR can probably be dropped by ~half and twRRD_sg/dg seem a bit high for 3400.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> should be fine. But it really _needs _1.27V SA? 1.2V fails?


Updated MB to new beta BIOS, with all my timings locked in and manually set I'm stable in RamTest at 1.25v VCCIO, 1.25v SA, 1.45V RAM.


----------



## Hydroplane

Zemach said:


> Gskill 3600 CL 16 RGB OC 4800 CL 19 22 22 48 1.55 IO 1.3 SA 1.4


Nice oc there :O


----------



## xSneak

This is what i was able to get on the dual rank corsair kit. I had the 4000mhz g.skill kit that another user on here had at 3900mhz with 16-16 timings, but I never really pushed an overclock on it. 
I think the best timings I got were at 3800mhz tight rtl on the asrock board but it had problems booting. On the asus board i got to 3800mhz tight tertiary timings with loose rtls at 70/70. 
Maximus Tweak on asus boards is for the rtls. Maximus tweak 1 will set loose rtl io-L values which allow you to run the memory at higher frequency but increased latency, tweak 2 will apply tight rtl timings like on the asrock board. I didnt figure this out till at the end of the tweaking when I was trying to figure out why my rtl values were so high compared to before. If I put the memory at 3700mhz with the timings i got on tweak 1(3800mhz), it will boot into windows but throw errors constantly in hci memtest. 
Even with tweak 1, I could boot at 4000, 4100,4133, sometimes at 4200, but never at 3866 or 3900.
I settled at 3800 because the bandwidth from the tighter tertiary timings beat the 4000mhz timings. I initially was going to run it at 4100, but it would occasionally fail post. At 4100mhz, the memory was on the edge of stability, lowering tfaw from 44 or trp from 15 would bsod on boot. 
After i got the timings I wanted, I tuned the voltages to get it booting 100% of the time. 
Voltages: 3800mhz timings 1.45v Dram 1.248v vccsa 1.280v vccio passed 850% coverage hci memtest (Keep below 60c)
3700mhz timings 1.488v Dram ? vccsa ? vccio fully stable

I orderd the 4700mhz c19 16GB vengeance lpx kit to replace this. Hopefully my 9900k will be up to the task :grin:


----------



## The Pook

19-25-25-45? :laughings


----------



## xSneak

The Pook said:


> 19-25-25-45? :laughings


16GB sticks don't like to be told what to do. :unamused:

Those are the xmp timings for the 4133mhz kit corsair sells. They have good binning because I don't think I could get it stable at those settings. :thinking:


----------



## Benjiw

Ram test said 14 errors over 5 hours and 20 mins of testing, looks like I need to adjust some stuff, dang it.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf i9 9900k -- 5.1GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ cache -- G.Skill 4x8GB Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4133Mhz 17-17-17-38 2T 1.45v -- 1.25v SA, 1.23v VCCIO -- RamTest 2 Hours

Raised my tREFI to 44066, tightened timings quite a bit. Like that latency for Z390.


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf i9 9900k -- 5.1GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ cache -- G.Skill 4x8GB Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4133Mhz 17-17-17-38 2T 1.45v -- 1.25v SA, 1.23v VCCIO -- RamTest 2 Hours
> 
> Raised my tREFI to 44066, tightened timings quite a bit. Like that latency for Z390.



Jealous  

I can't stabilize 17-17-17 @ 4133, best I can get is 17-18-18.


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> Jealous
> 
> I can't stabilize 17-17-17 @ 4133, best I can get is 17-18-18.


The voltages I'm using are in the first picture. But I could only do 17-18-18-41 2T on my CL14 3200 Ripjaws 5 with much worse secondary timings.

Really liking the non-RGB CL16 Trident Z 3600.


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> The voltages I'm using are in the first picture. But I could only do 17-18-18-41 2T on my CL14 3200 Ripjaws 5 with much worse secondary timings.
> 
> Really liking the non-RGB CL16 Trident Z 3600.



I saw, you just have better sticks than me, I've already accepted it  

I've went up to 1.6v vDIMM and 1.3v VCCIO/SA @ 4133 17-17-17 but it fails about an hour into RAM Test. 

Testing this tonight myself.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf i9 9900k -- 5.1GHZ CPU/4.7GHZ cache -- G.Skill 4x8GB Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4133Mhz 17-17-17-38 2T 1.45v -- 1.25v SA, 1.23v VCCIO -- RamTest 2 Hours
> 
> Raised my tREFI to 44066, tightened timings quite a bit. Like that latency for Z390.


looks good KW! what I don't get with x390 or z370 is why at 32GB they just can't do 1T at 4000 and above? (whereas x299 has no problem with 1T at the same freq and density). the wall for x299 seems to be 64GB for 2T at 4000


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> looks good KW! what I don't get with x390 or z370 is why at 32GB they just can't do 1T at 4000 and above? (whereas x299 has no problem with 1T at the same freq and density). the wall for x299 seems to be 64GB for 2T at 4000



My RAM won't boot at 1T even at 3200. I was under the impression kits either can or can't run at 1T and speed was irrelevant.

not much of an improvement from my last "submission" but it's something.

DDR4 4133 17-18-18-34 @ 1.45v, VCCIO+SA @ 1.23v.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> My RAM won't boot at 1T even at 3200. I was under the impression kits either can or* can't run at 1T and speed was irrelevant*.
> 
> not much of an improvement from my last "submission" but it's something.
> 
> DDR4 4133 17-18-18-34 @ 1.45v, VCCIO+SA @ 1.23v.


that's strange. must be something to do with the board. on z370, 3866 c16 1T is certainly a sweetspot. BUt if you are using a 4-slot board with 2 sticks in things are different.


----------



## KedarWolf

Tightened timings just a bit, tREFI maxed out. RamTest 13000+%.


----------



## Jpmboy

got a couple of whea while running [email protected] and thought the number crunch needed more vcore on this 9900X... not the fix. It was VCCIO!! Increased from 1.000V to 1.15V and all is good now. Not that unknown for VTT/VCCIO to help with this, just unexpected in these SLK-X cpus (for me).
Final ram OC for 24/7:


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> got a couple of whea while running [email protected] and thought the number crunch needed more vcore on this 9900X... not the fix. It was VCCIO!! Increased from 1.000V to 1.15V and all is good now. Not that unknown for VTT/VCCIO to help with this, just unexpected in these SLK-X cpus (for me).
> Final ram OC for 24/7:



single channel? get the blasphemer! :laughings


----------



## That_1_Hz_Extra

Jpmboy said:


> that's strange. must be something to do with the board. on z370, 3866 c16 1T is certainly a sweetspot. BUt if you are using a 4-slot board with 2 sticks in things are different.


 My G.Skill Trident Z 3600C15 / 8086k / XI Gene won't do 1t either. When it does boot it'll give errors within the first few percentages of any memory test.
It's either memory or memory controller not being up the task, leaning towards memory controller though.


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> got a couple of whea while running [email protected] and thought the number crunch needed more vcore on this 9900X... not the fix. It was VCCIO!! Increased from 1.000V to 1.15V and all is good now. Not that unknown for VTT/VCCIO to help with this, just unexpected in these SLK-X cpus (for me).
> Final ram OC for 24/7:


What Kit? What happens with T1?


----------



## Jpmboy

CptSpig said:


> What Kit? What happens with T1?


two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits... 64GB. 1T is just not gonna happen with 64GB at 4000. 1T is fine with only one kit (posted weeks back  )


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> single channel? get the blasphemer! :laughings


not the only thing ATC reads incorrectly on x299. 


That_1_Hz_Extra said:


> My G.Skill Trident Z 3600C15 / 8086k / XI Gene won't do 1t either. When it does boot it'll give errors within the first few percentages of any memory test.
> It's either memory or memory controller not being up the task, leaning towards memory controller though.


The XI gene is the best 390 board for ram oc and the 3600c15 kits is one of G Skill's highest bins... yeah, must be the IMC.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf said:


> Tightened timings just a bit, tREFI maxed out. RamTest 13000+%.



Let RamTest run overnight, then while I was at work.

Yes, I don't sleep that much.


----------



## BradleyW

RAM is no longer stable at 4000MHz VCCIA 1.28v, VCCIO 1.28v.

It fails MemTest within minutes. Upping IMC/VCCIO voltage hasn't helped.

Before hand I ran FMA3 blend with full RAM usage for a few hours. I'm worried the high draw has damaged the IMC. (5GHz, Vcore 1.33v, peak 1.37v)

9900K, Z390 Ultra, Trident 2x8GB DDR4 XMP rated 4000MHz.


----------



## The Pook

BradleyW said:


> RAM is no longer stable at 4000MHz VCCIA 1.28v, VCCIO 1.28v.
> 
> It fails MemTest within minutes. Upping IMC/VCCIO voltage hasn't helped.
> 
> Before hand I ran FMA3 blend with full RAM usage for a few hours. I'm worried the high draw has damaged the IMC. (5GHz, Vcore 1.33v, peak 1.37v)
> 
> 9900K, Z390 Ultra, Trident 2x8GB DDR4 XMP rated 4000MHz.



I was in the same boat a few weeks ago. Gave up trying to get it to work @ 4133 and got timings dialed in for DDR4-4000. Then I loaded up the wrong profile and it's stable at 4133 again. None of my timings are on auto so the only thing I can think to blame is the motherboard/BIOS. 

I expected this to fail so vDIMM is high (1.52v) but it passed 10.5 hours. I'll try again tonight at 1.45v. 

*DDR4 4133 16-18-18-34 @ 1.52v, VCCIO+SA @ 1.23v.*


----------



## jfriend00

The Pook said:


> I was in the same boat a few weeks ago. Gave up trying to get it to work @ 4133 and got timings dialed in for DDR4-4000. Then I loaded up the wrong profile and it's stable at 4133 again. None of my timings are on auto so the only thing I can think to blame is the motherboard/BIOS.
> 
> I expected this to fail so vDIMM is high (1.52v) but it passed 10.5 hours. I'll try again tonight at 1.45v.
> 
> *DDR4 4133 16-18-18-34 @ 1.52v, VCCIO+SA @ 1.23v.*


Are you really sure NONE of your memory-related timings are on auto? On my Z390 Taichi, I can't find a way to set the (rather important) timings like RTL and IO-L since the ASRock board only has one edit field, but there are D0 and D1 versions of those timings. So, even though I've set all the usual primaries, secondaries and tertiaries, there are still a number of other memory-related timings that are on auto and thus the motherboard could decide to "train" slightly differently on some future boot.

FYI, when I contact ASRock support about how to set RTL and IO-L appropriately, they forward the message to China and I got back a broken english response that basically tried to blame the problem on BIOS software they were using from Intel that didn't have the capability I was asking for. I'm not sure if the question was fully understood, but the answer didn't shed any light on how to set those important timings.


----------



## Falkentyne

BradleyW said:


> RAM is no longer stable at 4000MHz VCCIA 1.28v, VCCIO 1.28v.
> 
> It fails MemTest within minutes. Upping IMC/VCCIO voltage hasn't helped.
> 
> Before hand I ran FMA3 blend with full RAM usage for a few hours. I'm worried the high draw has damaged the IMC. (5GHz, Vcore 1.33v, peak 1.37v)
> 
> 9900K, Z390 Ultra, Trident 2x8GB DDR4 XMP rated 4000MHz.


What's your RAM voltage?


----------



## KedarWolf

jfriend00 said:


> Are you really sure NONE of your memory-related timings are on auto? On my Z390 Taichi, I can't find a way to set the (rather important) timings like RTL and IO-L since the ASRock board only has one edit field, but there are D0 and D1 versions of those timings. So, even though I've set all the usual primaries, secondaries and tertiaries, there are still a number of other memory-related timings that are on auto and thus the motherboard could decide to "train" slightly differently on some future boot.
> 
> FYI, when I contact ASRock support about how to set RTL and IO-L appropriately, they forward the message to China and I got back a broken english response that basically tried to blame the problem on BIOS software they were using from Intel that didn't have the capability I was asking for. I'm not sure if the question was fully understood, but the answer didn't shed any light on how to set those important timings.


On my Z390 Aorus Master you can't set RTL's and IOL's etc either or even the IOL Offset which lowers them on Asus boards. But if I manually set all my timings in the BIOS other then the IOL's etc. rather than leave anything on Auto it boots and trains every time just fine.


----------



## The Pook

jfriend00 said:


> Are you really sure NONE of your memory-related timings are on auto? On my Z390 Taichi, I can't find a way to set the (rather important) timings like RTL and IO-L since the ASRock board only has one edit field, but there are D0 and D1 versions of those timings. So, even though I've set all the usual primaries, secondaries and tertiaries, there are still a number of other memory-related timings that are on auto and thus the motherboard could decide to "train" slightly differently on some future boot.
> 
> FYI, when I contact ASRock support about how to set RTL and IO-L appropriately, they forward the message to China and I got back a broken english response that basically tried to blame the problem on BIOS software they were using from Intel that didn't have the capability I was asking for. I'm not sure if the question was fully understood, but the answer didn't shed any light on how to set those important timings.



I set TRL/IO-L on auto because they're grouped together and I couldn't figure out how to set both individually either. Tried colons, commas, periods, spaces, ...  

The board sets them consistently though.


----------



## kignt

The Pook said:


> I was in the same boat a few weeks ago. Gave up trying to get it to work @ 4133 and got timings dialed in for DDR4-4000. Then I loaded up the wrong profile and it's stable at 4133 again. None of my timings are on auto so the only thing I can think to blame is the motherboard/BIOS.
> 
> I expected this to fail so vDIMM is high (1.52v) but it passed 10.5 hours. I'll try again tonight at 1.45v.
> 
> *DDR4 4133 16-18-18-34 @ 1.52v, VCCIO+SA @ 1.23v.*


Most successfully trained timings for RTL's seem to be within +-2. It might fix itself with couple reboots. 

I found buildzoid's suggestion that if settings can cold-boot, then they are _maybe_ good. So I've started double checking settings can boot without issue from cold state (psu switched off for at least 10 seconds (my gpu's led takes about that much time to lose power)). Essentially a power cycle.


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits... 64GB. 1T is just not gonna happen with 64GB at 4000. 1T is fine with only one kit (posted weeks back  )


Got it 64GB is harder to tame. Good job with that amount of memory. :thumb:


----------



## BradleyW

The Pook said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> RAM is no longer stable at 4000MHz VCCIA 1.28v, VCCIO 1.28v.
> 
> It fails MemTest within minutes. Upping IMC/VCCIO voltage hasn't helped.
> 
> Before hand I ran FMA3 blend with full RAM usage for a few hours. I'm worried the high draw has damaged the IMC. (5GHz, Vcore 1.33v, peak 1.37v)
> 
> 9900K, Z390 Ultra, Trident 2x8GB DDR4 XMP rated 4000MHz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was in the same boat a few weeks ago. Gave up trying to get it to work @ 4133 and got timings dialed in for DDR4-4000. Then I loaded up the wrong profile and it's stable at 4133 again. None of my timings are on auto so the only thing I can think to blame is the motherboard/BIOS.
> 
> I expected this to fail so vDIMM is high (1.52v) but it passed 10.5 hours. I'll try again tonight at 1.45v.
> 
> *DDR4 4133 16-18-18-34 @ 1.52v, VCCIO+SA @ 1.23v.*
Click to expand...




Falkentyne said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> RAM is no longer stable at 4000MHz VCCIA 1.28v, VCCIO 1.28v.
> 
> It fails MemTest within minutes. Upping IMC/VCCIO voltage hasn't helped.
> 
> Before hand I ran FMA3 blend with full RAM usage for a few hours. I'm worried the high draw has damaged the IMC. (5GHz, Vcore 1.33v, peak 1.37v)
> 
> 9900K, Z390 Ultra, Trident 2x8GB DDR4 XMP rated 4000MHz.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your RAM voltage?
Click to expand...

You'll have to forgive me because I don't know much about RAM other than how it stores data (programming days).

What would you suggest I do because I've tried a ton of different VCCIO VCCIA voltages and upped the DRAM voltage to 1.45. My RAM is rated at 4000MHz 1.35v. Could the RAM be faulty seen as it can't run at its rated speed?

Thank you.

Edit: Looks like a stick is faulty. Tested both on their own and only 1 of the two sticks fails in RAM Test.

Edit2: Running tests again. Suspected faulty stick is now passing RAM Test. I will check for a faulty DIMM slot.

Edit3: Tested each stick in each slot. Slot 3 when populated with a RAM stick failed. To confirm a bad slot, I removed the current stick and replaced it with the other one. It's now passing again.

It would appear that a particular RAM stick doesn't like slot 3. How's that even possible?


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> You'll have to forgive me because I don't know much about RAM other than how it stores data (programming days).
> 
> What would you suggest I do because I've tried a ton of different VCCIO VCCIA voltages and upped the DRAM voltage to 1.45. My RAM is rated at 4000MHz 1.35v. Could the RAM be faulty seen as it can't run at its rated speed?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Edit: Looks like a stick is faulty. Tested both on their own and only 1 of the two sticks fails in RAM Test.


If one stick will run full rated speed than the other stick will not run rated speed it is a memory stick problem.


----------



## shellashock

The Pook said:


> I set TRL/IO-L on auto because they're grouped together and I couldn't figure out how to set both individually either. Tried colons, commas, periods, spaces, ...
> 
> The board sets them consistently though.





jfriend00 said:


> Are you really sure NONE of your memory-related timings are on auto? On my Z390 Taichi, I can't find a way to set the (rather important) timings like RTL and IO-L since the ASRock board only has one edit field, but there are D0 and D1 versions of those timings. So, even though I've set all the usual primaries, secondaries and tertiaries, there are still a number of other memory-related timings that are on auto and thus the motherboard could decide to "train" slightly differently on some future boot.
> 
> FYI, when I contact ASRock support about how to set RTL and IO-L appropriately, they forward the message to China and I got back a broken english response that basically tried to blame the problem on BIOS software they were using from Intel that didn't have the capability I was asking for. I'm not sure if the question was fully understood, but the answer didn't shed any light on how to set those important timings.


Because ASRock Z390 Taichi uses a daisychain memory topology, it highly prefers the A2/B2 slots for signal integrity. ASRock bioses display the RTL/IO-L settings for A2/B2 slots as "D1" and can be modified as shown here:






. 

If you want to play around with the A1/B1 slots (D0) RTL/IO-L settings, you can change the RTL/IO-L Init values as shown here:






. 
I don't think changing "D0" RTL/IO-L settings through RTL/IO-L Init does anything stability or speed wise when you have no sticks in the A1/B1 slots, but I haven't extensively tested this and just noticed that when I was playing around with my RTL settings with the method [email protected] showed on the HWBot forums: https://hwbot.org/newsflash/3058_ad...ory_rtlio_on_maximus_viii_with_alexaros_guide


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> You'll have to forgive me because I don't know much about RAM other than how it stores data (programming days).
> 
> What would you suggest I do because I've tried a ton of different VCCIO VCCIA voltages and upped the DRAM voltage to 1.45. My RAM is rated at 4000MHz 1.35v. Could the RAM be faulty seen as it can't run at its rated speed?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Edit: Looks like a stick is faulty. Tested both on their own and only 1 of the two sticks fails in RAM Test.
> 
> Edit2: Running tests again. Suspected faulty stick is now passing RAM Test. I will check for a faulty DIMM slot.
> 
> Edit3: Tested each stick in each slot. Slot 3 when populated with a RAM stick failed. To confirm a bad slot, I removed the current stick and replaced it with the other one. It's now passing again.
> 
> It would appear that a particular RAM stick doesn't like slot 3. How's that even possible?


There is also the possibility that rebooting is causing the memory sticks to pass and fail at 4000MHz.


----------



## Falkentyne

BradleyW said:


> You'll have to forgive me because I don't know much about RAM other than how it stores data (programming days).
> 
> What would you suggest I do because I've tried a ton of different VCCIO VCCIA voltages and upped the DRAM voltage to 1.45. My RAM is rated at 4000MHz 1.35v. Could the RAM be faulty seen as it can't run at its rated speed?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Edit: Looks like a stick is faulty. Tested both on their own and only 1 of the two sticks fails in RAM Test.
> 
> Edit2: Running tests again. Suspected faulty stick is now passing RAM Test. I will check for a faulty DIMM slot.
> 
> Edit3: Tested each stick in each slot. Slot 3 when populated with a RAM stick failed. To confirm a bad slot, I removed the current stick and replaced it with the other one. It's now passing again.
> 
> It would appear that a particular RAM stick doesn't like slot 3. How's that even possible?


You have two sticks, right?
What if you just use slots 2 and 4?


----------



## BradleyW

wingman99 said:


> If one stick will run full rated speed than the other stick will not run rated speed it is a memory stick problem.


True. This is why I decided to test each stick on it's own. Stick 1 passed, stick 2 failed. Stick 1 tested in slot 1. Stick 2 tested in slot 3. 

I repeated the test but using only slot 1. Both sticks passed. I theorized that slot 3 is faulty. 

Test repeated once more using only slot 3. Both sticks passed. 

This doesn't make sense to me.



wingman99 said:


> There is also the possibility that rebooting is causing the memory sticks to pass and fail at 4000MHz.


What can be done about this?



Falkentyne said:


> You have two sticks, right?
> What if you just use slots 2 and 4?


I was going to test this as I suspected slot 3 might've been bad, but based on my tests, the slots are fine as are the sticks. However this wasn't the case at first. My results just don't make sense. Very intermittent, inconsistent.

The only 2 theories I have are:
1) IMC can't handle both sticks at rated speed since I ran FMA3 blend for 2 hours with VCCCIO+IA @ 1.3v, causing instant degrading to the IMC.
2) One of the sticks has a random intermitted fault.


----------



## Falkentyne

BradleyW said:


> True. This is why I decided to test each stick on it's own. Stick 1 passed, stick 2 failed. Stick 1 tested in slot 1. Stick 2 tested in slot 3.
> 
> I repeated the test but using only slot 1. Both sticks passed. I theorized that slot 3 is faulty.
> 
> Test repeated once more using only slot 3. Both sticks passed.
> 
> This doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> What can be done about this?
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to test this as I suspected slot 3 might've been bad, but based on my tests, the slots are fine as are the sticks. However this wasn't the case at first. My results just don't make sense. Very intermittent, inconsistent.


Sorry I can't help with this. I don't know anything about RAM tweaking.
I saw what @Jpmboy said about keeping TRDWR = CAS at 3600 mhz or higher for most stability, but that's the limit of what I know.
My sticks are at 3200 cas 14 and staying there until I learn how to change stuff without trashing my OS.
And tweaking RAM is too time consuming. It takes days as it is (or longer) just to tune your CPU voltages to where you need them for a certain speed....


----------



## GnarlyCharlie

Overclocking RAM is my kryptonite - just have zero luck. Running at just the rated speed is a victory.

A recent build was having issues with cold boots - must be RAM training failing. But the error code was AE for Boot to Legacy OS, never saw that one - still figuring it must be something to do with RAM training as it'll usually re-boot fine, or boot after a shut down as long as the PSU isn't powered down and I don't have a legacy OS. But after the most recent W10 upgrade, it was stuck at AE and I hadn't changed anything in the RAM for a day or so.

Decided to look into that Legacy OS Boot thing, saw CSM was on, that must be it! Nope, now it won't even get to AE with CSM off. 

Somehow I installed W10 on a M.2 NVME as a MBR drive. Been running like that a couple of weeks. W10 has a command line utility now MBR2GPT, got the drive sorted out and of course it boots fine now, cold boots too.

So my years of failure at RAM OCing had me instinctively looking for ram issues as the cause of the cold boot problem, where being an idiot was the actual cause. I still don't know how I got the OS installed as a MBR, part of that idiot thing I mentioned I guess.


----------



## The Pook

GnarlyCharlie said:


> Overclocking RAM is my kryptonite - just have zero luck. Running at just the rated speed is a victory.
> 
> A recent build was having issues with cold boots - must be RAM training failing. But the error code was AE for Boot to Legacy OS, never saw that one - still figuring it must be something to do with RAM training as it'll usually re-boot fine, or boot after a shut down as long as the PSU isn't powered down and I don't have a legacy OS. But after the most recent W10 upgrade, it was stuck at AE and I hadn't changed anything in the RAM for a day or so.
> 
> Decided to look into that Legacy OS Boot thing, saw CSM was on, that must be it! Nope, now it won't even get to AE with CSM off.
> 
> Somehow I installed W10 on a M.2 NVME as a MBR drive. Been running like that a couple of weeks. W10 has a command line utility now MBR2GPT, got the drive sorted out and of course it boots fine now, cold boots too.
> 
> So my years of failure at RAM OCing had me instinctively looking for ram issues as the cause of the cold boot problem, where being an idiot was the actual cause. I still don't know how I got the OS installed as a MBR, part of that idiot thing I mentioned I guess.


:lachen:

at least you got it sorted.


----------



## wingman99

wingman99 said:


> There is also the possibility that rebooting is causing the memory sticks to pass and fail at 4000MHz.





BradleyW said:


> True. This is why I decided to test each stick on it's own. Stick 1 passed, stick 2 failed. Stick 1 tested in slot 1. Stick 2 tested in slot 3.
> 
> I repeated the test but using only slot 1. Both sticks passed. I theorized that slot 3 is faulty.
> 
> Test repeated once more using only slot 3. Both sticks passed.
> 
> This doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> What can be done about this?


If your getting a pass or fail with rebooting then the AUTO secondary timings are changing with memory training on boot up. You need to set them manually.


----------



## BradleyW

wingman99 said:


> If your getting a pass or fail with rebooting then the AUTO secondary timings are changing with memory training on boot up. You need to set them manually.


I see. Where can I find the correct secondary timing values for my particular memory kit? I can only find information about the primary timings.

Here's my RAM. My AUROS ULTRA is also on the supported MB list.

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c18d-16gtzsw


----------



## The Pook

BradleyW said:


> I see. Where can I find the correct secondary timing values for my particular memory kit? I can only find information about the primary timings.
> 
> Here's my RAM. My AUROS ULTRA is also on the supported MB list.
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c18d-16gtzsw



Similar kits should get similar timings but even identical kits won't necessarily boot/be stable at the same. 

This is my CL15 4000 result but about 2/3 of my tertiaries are hidden and I've since deleted the profile and started working on 4133 again.


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> I see. Where can I find the correct secondary timing values for my particular memory kit? I can only find information about the primary timings.
> 
> Here's my RAM. My AUROS ULTRA is also on the supported MB list.
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c18d-16gtzsw


Download the ASRock Timing Configurator ver:4.0.4 LINK: https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/X299 OC Formula/index.asp#osW1064 and see what secondary timings work and don't work with booting, then enter the timings that work.


----------



## BradleyW

There must be over a million different combinations. I wouldn't know where to start, seems an almost impossible task without knowing what the values should actually be for my kit.


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> There must be over a million different combinations. I wouldn't know where to start, seems an almost impossible task without knowing what the values should actually be for my kit.


Pick the combination that works without errors when the motherboard boots up and use that setup. The motherboard picks the secondary timings not the memory.


----------



## BradleyW

wingman99 said:


> Pick the combination that works without errors when the motherboard boots up and use that setup. The motherboard picks the secondary timings not the memory.


Thanks for clarification.

As it stands, I can run 4000MHz XMP on each stick, but when placed together, I'm not stable at 4000MHz.


----------



## Jpmboy

GnarlyCharlie said:


> Overclocking RAM is my kryptonite - just have zero luck. Running at just the rated speed is a victory.
> 
> A recent build was having issues with cold boots - must be RAM training failing. But the error code was AE for Boot to Legacy OS, never saw that one - still figuring it must be something to do with RAM training as it'll usually re-boot fine, or boot after a shut down as long as the PSU isn't powered down and I don't have a legacy OS. But after the most recent W10 upgrade, it was stuck at AE and I hadn't changed anything in the RAM for a day or so.
> 
> Decided to look into that Legacy OS Boot thing, saw CSM was on, that must be it! Nope, now it won't even get to AE with CSM off.
> 
> Somehow I installed W10 on a M.2 NVME as a MBR drive. Been running like that a couple of weeks. W10 has a command line utility now MBR2GPT, got the drive sorted out and of course it boots fine now, cold boots too.
> 
> So my years of failure at RAM OCing had me instinctively looking for ram issues as the cause of the cold boot problem, where being an idiot was the actual cause. I still don't know how I got the OS installed as a MBR, part of that idiot thing I mentioned I guess.


you know the saying... "if you are a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". :thumb:


BradleyW said:


> I see. Where can I find the correct secondary timing values for my particular memory kit? I can only find information about the primary timings.
> 
> Here's my RAM. My AUROS ULTRA is also on the supported MB list.
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-4000c18d-16gtzsw


I'd figure I'd throw in my 2 cents regarding locking down RTL and IOLs for a 24/7 machine (which would then only be meaningful with training disabled - right?)> The system then becomes subject to component drift (temperature, other non-clamped direct and supporting voltages, etc.) leading to a new instability. Before trying to find (or calculate) the Round-Trip-Latency (RTL), which is a board and trace + ram measurement made during post) and setting it manually, I'd loosen tWR and RCD and RP first (+1 to each and test) leaving all other settings the same, training enabled and RTLs and IOLs on Auto. Also, there are timings and settings that we do not have bios access to or do not set (like DSQs etc) where the auto-set value may not clear without doing a clrcmos. So... do a clrcmos, load the saved profile you want to mod (do not hit F10 yet). Make the recommended changes (tWR, RCD, RP) F10 to save and reboot... test, tune, ... eg, "rinse and repeat". Lastly, simply changing the command rate to 2 can stabilize an RTL-based issue :thumb:


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> Thanks for clarification.
> 
> As it stands, I can run 4000MHz XMP on each stick, but when placed together, I'm not stable at 4000MHz.


Even with memory training reboots there is no stability run?


----------



## kignt

When "drift" and "bit flip" is mentioned, I think of this...



Praz said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> This has crossed my mind quite a lot. The training routines on these new boards seem far more stringent than previous platforms on DDR3. Months back when I was tuning in 3000 I was at a junction for a time because HCI was passing without any problems but every so often the system would fail training, once every 30-40 power ups maybe even less frequent than that, but failing nonetheless. If testing within Mint resolves these issues faster I'd recommend anyone to use it especially when using frequencies of 3000+. Huge time saver likely
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> Training is more difficult to pass than a HCI type test because of the requirements of the pass/fail. During training the electrical signals are adjusted so as not to encroach upon a predefined programmable window. So the results are either a pass or fail. Memory timing adjustments using an operating system based test also allows adjustment of some of these signals. However, these tests rely on bits of data to be written and read correctly to determine the successful passing of the tests. Minor misalignment of the waveforms may still result in the data remaining valid for the period of time of the testing. This result may not hold true with different types of testing, use or subsequent drift.
> 
> The screenshots below are eye diagrams of several timing waveforms with multiple traces of each waveform. They also have a valid region mask superimposed. The shape and size of the mask will vary depending on the signals being observed and the speed of those signals. The two sinusoidal waveforms are the ones of interest. There is a lot of info that can be obtained from these screenshots but the two important ones are the crossing of the two waveforms and the distance of them from the mask. The top trace shows a valid signal group. The two waveforms cross each other at their center point and there is good margin all around the mask. Ideally the multiple traces of each waveform would appear as a single trace and the entire set of waveforms would be shifted to the right in reference to the mask. However, in the real world there is seldom such a thing as a perfect circuit. This configuration would pass training.
> 
> The bottom screenshot would result in failed training. One of the traces passes through the mask indicating that the current settings or design violates specs and memory corruption may occur. The minor incursion into the mask may still allow passing operating system based memory tests that are only looking for faulty bits. With this configuration memory errors will occur under the correct conditions form within the operating system. This failure will depend on how often the incursion takes place and how the system is used. Also in this screenshot the crossing points of the multiple traces are much wider which can also result in memory corruption.
> 
> That minor signal faults at the electrical level may still appear stable in actual use has been confirmed multiple times. Using a higher memory voltage during POST than what is used once in the operating system validates this. Increasing the voltage increases the margins for valid timing windows. A lower voltage once booted into the operating system decreases the margins to where the signal integrity is again compromised. The violation may occur infrequently enough that it does not take place during the testing or the testing may not be susceptible to the particular violation.
> 
> The second screenshot also shows why random BD type error codes appear. If the single trace that is outside of spec was sightly higher the system would pass training. There would be no margin for error though. A temperature change or circuit drift may move the trace either up or down. If down training would fail. Likewise the trace directly above this one just touches the corner of the mask. Any further degradation would result in this failing training also.
> 
> There is quite a bit of disparity between what is electrically valid and passing memory type tests from within the operating system. While marginally faulty timing signals may not manifest errors in normal use the possibility always exists. The Google memory test app seems to close this difference significantly.


which I can't even begin to understand.. :eyes:


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> you know the saying... "if you are a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". :thumb:
> 
> I'd figure I'd throw in my 2 cents regarding locking down RTL and IOLs for a 24/7 machine (which would then only be meaningful with training disabled - right?)> The system then becomes subject to component drift (temperature, other non-clamped direct and supporting voltages, etc.) leading to a new instability. Before trying to find (or calculate) the Round-Trip-Latency (RTL), which is a board and trace + ram measurement made during post) and setting it manually, I'd loosen tWR and RCD and RP first (+1 to each and test) leaving all other settings the same, training enabled and RTLs and IOLs on Auto. Also, there are timings and settings that we do not have bios access to or do not set (like DSQs etc) where the auto-set value may not clear without doing a clrcmos. So... do a clrcmos, load the saved profile you want to mod (do not hit F10 yet). Make the recommended changes (tWR, RCD, RP) F10 to save and reboot... test, tune, ... eg, "rinse and repeat". Lastly, simply changing the command rate to 2 can stabilize an RTL-based issue :thumb:


A long time ago, you said that CAS + TRCD + tRTP should = TRAS, and also that tWR should be tRTP * 2, and that TRDWR should be equal to CAS at 3600 mhz and higher.
But I see no one at all following that. Is there a reason for that? It was yours and Raja's posts that suggested this.


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> A long time ago, you said that CAS + TRCD + tRTP should = TRAS, and also that tWR should be tRTP * 2, and that TRDWR should be equal to CAS at 3600 mhz and higher.
> But I see no one at all following that. Is there a reason for that? It was yours and Raja's posts that suggested this.


 the tRAS one is easy. The RAS window needs to be open for the entire "time" it takes to complete CAS, RCD and RTP (+/- 2). It just how the operation(s) work together. When RAS is set below this window (of 4 around the sum right?), the board corrects the timing error and unfortunately, this value is not exposed to the OS. The ras window can be squeezed pretty low while benching (tho even the 4000 12-12-12-28-1T @ 1.9V benchmarking standard everyone uses conforms to this rule) but that's not the point. When the window is too short, it closes before the ops complete which can cause an error or loss of efficiency. I wish I could run tWR that low on x299 (I have RTP at 4 which is the chipset min, tWR=8 would likely not boot). What's TRDWR?
There is a long tech document on this if interested. I posted it several times in this thread...


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> the tRAS one is easy. The RAS window needs to be open for the entire "time" it takes to complete CAS, RCD and RTP (+/- 2). It just how the operation(s) work together. When RAS is set below this window (of 4 around the sum right?), the board corrects the timing error and unfortunately, this value is not exposed to the OS. The ras window can be squeezed pretty low while benching (tho even the 4000 12-12-12-28-1T @ 1.9V benchmarking standard everyone uses conforms to this rule) but that's not the point. When the window is too short, it closes before the ops complete which can cause an error or loss of efficiency. I wish I could run tWR that low on x299 (I have RTP at 4 which is the chipset min, tWR=8 would likely not boot). What's TRDWR?
> There is a long tech document on this if interested. I posted it several times in this thread...


You said in a post (it was over a year ago) that the four TRDWR values should be set equal to CAS at 3600 mhz and higher.
It's buried way back in this thread. That's where I learned that.
But no one is doing that, even at 4266 mhz!

Some buried post said that the TRDWR values affect AVX or something and tighter values cause more heat. I could not verify that.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1630388-comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide.html



> Fun fact about tRDWR: these timings directly impact AVX. The tighter they are, the hotter AVX is. The looser they are, the cooler AVX is. Those of you that fear AVX, you might be able to use this to your advantage, and make those stress tests easier on yourself. I promise not to judge you.


----------



## BradleyW

So I've found that my 8GBx2 DDR4 is stable in slots 2 and 4, but not in slots 1 and 3.


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> You said in a post (it was over a year ago) *that the four TRDWR values should be set equal to CAS at 3600 mhz and higher.*
> It's buried way back in this thread. That's where I learned that.
> But no one is doing that, even at 4266 mhz!
> 
> Some buried post said that the TRDWR values affect AVX or something and tighter values cause more heat. I could not verify that.
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1630388-comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide.html



I'd have to look back... but that post was probably not me? 


BradleyW said:


> So I've found that my 8GBx2 DDR4 is stable in slots 2 and 4, but not in slots 1 and 3.


Nice! that's the gigabyte board, yes?


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> I'd have to look back... but that post was probably not me?
> 
> Nice! that's the gigabyte board, yes?


Yes. Z390 Ultra, F7 BIOS.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Yes. Z390 Ultra, F7 BIOS.


I'd have to pull down that manual, but is that a different slot population than what the manual says?


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> I'd have to look back... but that post was probably not me?
> 
> Nice! that's the gigabyte board, yes?


I can't find your original post but someone was replying to your original post.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...ocking-guide-statistics-940.html#post25578951


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> So I've found that my 8GBx2 DDR4 is stable in slots 2 and 4, but not in slots 1 and 3.


Glad you have it working fine now.


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> I can't find your original post but someone was replying to your original post.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...ocking-guide-statistics-940.html#post25578951


yeah, I think he was trying to run those values back then (daaum, 3 years ago  ). On current platforms it's not the case for sure. that AVX thing was related to modified bioses that allowed us to multiplier overclock non-K CPUs, the bios/uC however could not implement AVX instruction sets. remember the 6300 and 6600 non-K CPUs? well the Non-K aspect was partially defeated thru a bios mod.


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> I'd have to pull down that manual, but is that a different slot population than what the manual says?


The manual says 1 DIMM goes in slot 1. For 2 DIMM's, either slot 1, 3 or 2, 4.


wingman99 said:


> Glad you have it working fine now.


It worries me that there's an issue with slot 1, 3.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> The manual says 1 DIMM goes in slot 1. For 2 DIMM's, either slot 1, 3 or 2, 4.
> 
> *It worries me that there's an issue with slot 1, 3*.


nah, you just did a form of Slot-binning, that's all. No worries, just enjoy the OC.


----------



## hamideteru

M11A 4000 Over 1T Setting
Trace Centering Disable → Boot Failure
Trace Centering Enable → Test OK


----------



## chibi

hamideteru said:


> M11A 4000 Over 1T Setting
> Trace Centering Disable → Boot Failure
> Trace Centering Enable → Test OK



Wow super low latency, great results!


----------



## Benjiw

Can someone tell me what DRAM CLK PERIOD does, its set to auto atm but i've no clue what it's actually set to, where do I find that reading?


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> nah, you just did a form of Slot-binning, that's all. No worries, just enjoy the OC.


I didn't realise there was such a thing.

Is it possible for RAM TEST to fail due to an unstable uncore frequency?


----------



## Benjiw

BradleyW said:


> I didn't realise there was such a thing.
> 
> Is it possible for RAM TEST to fail due to an unstable uncore frequency?


Yep, even if your core isn't stable, I ran into a lot of issues due to this.


----------



## BradleyW

Benjiw said:


> Yep, even if your core isn't stable, I ran into a lot of issues due to this.


This explains why I needed to lower my uncore frequency to stop some errors I was running into today. Thank you.


----------



## Benjiw

BradleyW said:


> This explains why I needed to lower my uncore frequency to stop some errors I was running into today. Thank you.


Either lower it or pump up the juice, just depends where your comfort level is. This cpu and ram I have are utter pants, no matter what I try I cannot get my ram to boot up past 3500mhz.


----------



## BradleyW

Benjiw said:


> Either lower it or pump up the juice, just depends where your comfort level is. This cpu and ram I have are utter pants, no matter what I try I cannot get my ram to boot up past 3500mhz.


What software do you use to test your CPU and uncore stability? I need to ditch prime because the A draw is near the 196A limit for me.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> What software do you use to test your CPU and uncore stability? I need to ditch prime because the A draw is near the 196A limit for me.


HCi memtest does a good job of loading the ram/cache/IO system. AID64 has a cache stress test... p95 FFT 1344 as the only FFT does a decent job on cache...


----------



## The Pook

*DDR4 4133 16-18-18-34 @ 1.5v, VCCIO+SA @ 1.23v.*

Think that's about the best I can do. I might be able to drop VCCIO/SA a bit but it wasn't happy at 1.45v vDIMM.


----------



## jfriend00

KedarWolf said:


> On my Z390 Aorus Master you can't set RTL's and IOL's etc either or even the IOL Offset which lowers them on Asus boards. But if I manually set all my timings in the BIOS other then the IOL's etc. rather than leave anything on Auto it boots and trains every time just fine.


Yeah, setting all the primaries, secondaries and tertiaries makes it so the motherboard has a ton less things to guess at and figure out for the other more esoteric timings and does tend to make things boot a LOT more consistently. 

I think it's probably up to a specific motherboard implementation exactly how they "train" all those other esoteric timings, but for my ASRock Z390 Taichi, they seem to train very consistently if all the primaries, secondaries and tertiaries are locked down and not so consistently at speeds above 3600MHz when not locked down.


----------



## jfriend00

shellashock said:


> Because ASRock Z390 Taichi uses a daisychain memory topology, it highly prefers the A2/B2 slots for signal integrity. ASRock bioses display the RTL/IO-L settings for A2/B2 slots as "D1" and can be modified as shown here:
> View attachment 262972
> .
> 
> If you want to play around with the A1/B1 slots (D0) RTL/IO-L settings, you can change the RTL/IO-L Init values as shown here:
> View attachment 262974
> .
> I don't think changing "D0" RTL/IO-L settings through RTL/IO-L Init does anything stability or speed wise when you have no sticks in the A1/B1 slots, but I haven't extensively tested this and just noticed that when I was playing around with my RTL settings with the method [email protected] showed on the HWBot forums: https://hwbot.org/newsflash/3058_ad...ory_rtlio_on_maximus_viii_with_alexaros_guide


Hmmm, I'm going to have to play with this to see if it works. ASRock support even when escalated back to China was not able to explain this so I'm curious if this is actually how you can manually enter the values.


----------



## shellashock

jfriend00 said:


> Hmmm, I'm going to have to play with this to see if it works. ASRock support even when escalated back to China was not able to explain this so I'm curious if this is actually how you can manually enter the values.


It could be different for you since I took those photos from my Z170 OC Formula bios (v7.40), but I am fairly confident this is how you change RTL/IO-L on current ASRock bioses. Note that you should really lock in everything else before you begin playing with RTL because it is derived from all your other timings + motherboard specific layout and your mobo's auto-setting of RTL is usually the best one if it can boot .


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> HCi memtest does a good job of loading the ram/cache/IO system. AID64 has a cache stress test... p95 FFT 1344 as the only FFT does a decent job on cache...


Is FFT 1344 good enough to pick up core instability as well as cache?

Should I run the FFT's in place?

Thank you.


----------



## BradleyW

New development. RAM fails at 4000MHz regardless of what VCCIO/IA voltages I try. Doesn't seem to matter which DIMMs are in what slots. MEM Test can fail within seconds or after an hour. Just depends which DIMM slots are populated and what VCCIO/IA I use.

I repeated my tests with lower frequencies whilst testing different VCCIO/IA voltages. Speeds tested are 3900, 3866, 3800. All failing. Currently testing 3733 @ VCCIO/IA @ 1.2v - MEM Test.

I know it isn't an overclock issue because the CPU is at stock for the moment. I did notice my DIMM's are hitting over 46c. 

Either it's a temperature issue or I need very high VCCIO/IA voltages for the higher speeds. However! If true, and my IMC doesn't like high voltage, that means I can't use the required voltage to support the higher speeds.

If this fails at 3733MHz then I'll be gutted because I'm lost at the moment without much of a plan.

What do you experts think of this? RAM isn't my area. Thank you.


----------



## Jpmboy

need to see your timings and the spd tab of cpuz. Pick one frequency (3733 or 3866 for example) and post up an asrock timing configurator snip. we really need to see the complete timing set to help.


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> need to see your timings and the spd tab of cpuz. Pick one frequency (3733 or 3866 for example) and post up an asrock timing configurator snip. we really need to see the complete timing set to help.


Here are the timings for 3733, 3800, 3866, 3900 and 4000. I think I'll need too much VCCIO/IA for anything above 3800 so I guess that would be a good target. 3733 might also be a good option. Anyway you know more than me about this so here are the numbers. However I've noticed that my board doesn't always like 3733 and 3900 specifically. I had OS corruption on 3900 and boot issues with 3733, causing the BIOS to run the RAM at 3600 even though the BIOS still states that it's set to 3733.

9900K, GIGABYTE Z390 ULTRA F7, TRIDENT 4000 8GBx2. BIOS STOCK WITH XMP ON.


----------



## jfriend00

BradleyW said:


> New development. RAM fails at 4000MHz regardless of what VCCIO/IA voltages I try. Doesn't seem to matter which DIMMs are in what slots. MEM Test can fail within seconds or after an hour. Just depends which DIMM slots are populated and what VCCIO/IA I use.
> 
> I repeated my tests with lower frequencies whilst testing different VCCIO/IA voltages. Speeds tested are 3900, 3866, 3800. All failing. Currently testing 3733 @ VCCIO/IA @ 1.2v - MEM Test.
> 
> I know it isn't an overclock issue because the CPU is at stock for the moment. I did notice my DIMM's are hitting over 46c.
> 
> Either it's a temperature issue or I need very high VCCIO/IA voltages for the higher speeds. However! If true, and my IMC doesn't like high voltage, that means I can't use the required voltage to support the higher speeds.
> 
> If this fails at 3733MHz then I'll be gutted because I'm lost at the moment without much of a plan.
> 
> What do you experts think of this? RAM isn't my area. Thank you.


46C is kind of warm for DRAM. It's not like the sticks will be damaged, but certain types of errors or sensitivities to precise timings are more likely to occur as things get hotter. Since the actual thermal load on DRAM sticks is not very high, temperatures above 40C usually only occur when you have insufficient case airflow.

As I've shared before, a DRAM stress test is sometimes a bit of an artificial situation that doesn't occur in the real world. You would typically have your case fans on some fan curve that is dependent upon the CPU core temp (so the case fans spin up when the CPU gets hot), but a multi-hour RAM test may never spin up the case fans and thus you end up with insufficient airflowing/cooling for your RAM sticks while they are being stress tested (and thus generating more heat than any real-world app would ever create). 

My solution is to put the case fans on manual mode and manually turn them up when stress testing DRAM to assure reasonable airflow during the test and my DRAM never gets above 40C which I think makes a more repeatable and consistent set of test conditions and is more than rigorous enough for real world DRAM usage.

If you're still failing intermittently while maintaining DRAM temperatures below 42C or so (with better airflow), then you have some timing that's just too close to the ragged edge for your other settings. You will either need to raise the DRAM voltage or raise some timing or go with a slower frequency (given that you've already shown raising VCCIO doesn't fix it). Without knowing your whole adjustment and testing history and seeing all your timings and voltages, it's not possible to know what to recommend next. Memory tweaking is a mix of knowledge that leads to some intuition that's followed by trying/testing lots of things and being very rigorous about documenting exactly what you've tried and what you've tested so you can be more efficient when you have to backtrack to a stable point. The general idea is to find a stable point that passes any memory test you throw at it and then iterate from there, not going very far before you verify stability again with at least a 3-4 hour test. If you change lots of things without a 3-4 hour test and then you later find you're not stable with a longer test, you're hosed because you have not idea how to get back to a known stable spot that you can then iterate/test from.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Here are the timings for 3733, 3800, 3866, 3900 and 4000. I think I'll need too much VCCIO/IA for anything above 3800 so I guess that would be a good target. 3733 might also be a good option. Anyway you know more than me about this so here are the numbers. However I've noticed that my board doesn't always like 3733 and 3900 specifically. I had OS corruption on 3900 and boot issues with 3733, causing the BIOS to run the RAM at 3600 even though the BIOS still states that it's set to 3733.
> 
> 9900K, GIGABYTE Z390 ULTRA F7, TRIDENT 4000 8GBx2. *BIOS STOCK WITH XMP ON*.


I'd shut down and clrcmos to remove any XMP-based programming. Do not enable XMP when you enter bios. Set your cpu OC and everything else, leave dram on auto. F10 and post back to bios. Save this configuration. Gigabyte can be tricky with a ram OC and, at least the two x299 giga boards I have took a bit of getting familiar with. There may be a setting in bios which enables timings in each channel independently - don't do that. Okay, set the frequency to 3733, manually enter the primary timings in the 3733 snip you show. set the vdimm to the XMO value and add 25mV. Leave vccio and vsa on auto. F10 to save and POST back in to bios. Nav to the RTLs and IOLs. Nav to the voltage settings, note the values Auto set for vccio and vsa. Don't change anything...

Press "esc" and boot to windows. Wait 3-5min and run GSAT if you have activated the windows linux subsystem, or run RAMTEST. If either fail quickly (like in under 5 min) post back to bios and drop the frequency one notch (to 3600). You need ot find the highest frequency the XMP timings that board and CPU can handle.
Don't fret over vsa and vccio at this point, and don't undervolt those rails until you have found stable settings... once you do, then you can tune those two voltage rails.
IMO... with a giga board, aim low on the ram OC to start. But this may be my lack of knowledge of their "workings". Others here may know more about that board and they now have the info needed in your post above. :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

[email protected], 2X8gb GS 4800c18 kit (royals) at 4500c17 with tightened secondaries. Vccio 1.26, VSA 1.26, vdimm 1.45V
Ramtest 3 hours


----------



## jfriend00

BradleyW said:


> Here are the timings for 3733, 3800, 3866, 3900 and 4000. I think I'll need too much VCCIO/IA for anything above 3800 so I guess that would be a good target. 3733 might also be a good option. Anyway you know more than me about this so here are the numbers. However I've noticed that my board doesn't always like 3733 and 3900 specifically. I had OS corruption on 3900 and boot issues with 3733, causing the BIOS to run the RAM at 3600 even though the BIOS still states that it's set to 3733.
> 
> 9900K, GIGABYTE Z390 ULTRA F7, TRIDENT 4000 8GBx2. BIOS STOCK WITH XMP ON.


Which, if any, of these timings are known stable (will consistently pass a 3-4 hour memory test)?


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Which, if any, of these timings are known stable (will consistently pass a 3-4 hour memory test)?


^^ good question! (I assumed none were)


----------



## BradleyW

OK everyone, thank you for the help and advice. I've followed it as best I can down to the letter. Here are my 4 hour MEM Test stable timings / frequency 3700 MHz. XMP was enabled and VCCIO/AI were both set to 1.2v. 

I've since cleared the CMOS and set the speed, DRAM voltage and timings manually. VCCIO/IA AUTO.

I upped the speed from 3700 to 3733 and also tried 3800 on the stable timings but it won't boot. Just sets itself to 3600, or locks up and awaits a CMOS clear. It varies. So atm the absolute best I can do with the timings in the following image is 3700MHz. 

Which timings could I adjust to gain 3800MHz?

Thank you.


----------



## jfriend00

BradleyW said:


> OK everyone, thank you for the help and advice. I've followed it as best I can down to the letter. Here are my 4 hour MEM Test stable timings / frequency 3700 MHz. XMP was enabled and VCCIO/AI were both set to 1.2v.
> 
> I've since cleared the CMOS and set the speed, DRAM voltage and timings manually. VCCIO/IA AUTO.
> 
> I upped the speed from 3700 to 3733 and also tried 3800 on the stable timings but it won't boot. Just sets itself to 3600, or locks up and awaits a CMOS clear. It varies. So atm the absolute best I can do with the timings in the following image is 3700MHz.
> 
> Which timings could I adjust to gain 3800MHz?
> 
> Thank you.


Which of the secondary and tertiary timings (all the timings except the 18-19-19-39-2) are set on auto versus set manually by you? 

My usual procedure is to set everything on auto except the primaries and then play with frequency and primaries and DRAM voltage to see how high a frequency I can go. Then, and only then, do I benchmark in AIDA64 memory benchmark and start working on lowering secondary and tertiary timings to see how much I can speed up the benchmark. If you try to go faster with a few secondary or tertiary timings too tight, then it won't work and you won't know why.

If your memory is good Samsung b-die, you should be able to eventually get to 16-17-17-37 @ 4000MHz and DRAM voltage of 1.45V with appropriate secondary and tertiaries. I wouldn't jump there right away, but work your way up, proving stability as you go.

For a next step, I'd suggest you raise the DRAM voltage to 1.40V, put VCCIO and VCCSA at 1.22V, put all the secondary and tertiary timings on "auto" and then see what speed you can boot and pass a memory test on at your existing 18-19-19-39-2 timings. If you get success at 4000MHz, then you can experiment with lower the primary timings seeing how close to 16-17-17-37 you can get. Once you're stable at 4000MHz, you might be able to get the primary timings even lower by raising the DRAM voltage to 1.45V.

Note that when playing with primaries with a lot of secondaries on "auto", it may take awhile for the motherboard to "train" all those "auto" settings and find something that boots. Every motherboard is a bit different in this regard, but my ASRock Taichi may take 3-5 minutes to go through a whole training sequence trying to find timings that work. One has to be patient letting it go through that process.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> OK everyone, thank you for the help and advice. I've followed it as best I can down to the letter. Here are my 4 hour MEM Test stable timings / frequency 3700 MHz. XMP was enabled and VCCIO/AI were both set to 1.2v.
> 
> I've since cleared the CMOS and set the speed, DRAM voltage and timings manually. VCCIO/IA AUTO.
> 
> I upped the speed from 3700 to 3733 and also tried 3800 on the stable timings but it won't boot. Just sets itself to 3600, or locks up and awaits a CMOS clear. It varies. So atm the absolute best I can do with the timings in the following image is 3700MHz.
> 
> Which timings could I adjust to gain 3800MHz?
> 
> Thank you.


if this is stable (to on/off cycles, cold starts). SAVE IT. I would not yet look to a higher frequency, but lower/tighten the timinigs on this frequency first. You can safely run ddr4 at 1.45V so don;t be afraid to up the Vdimm. First try 1T (add 25mV to vdimm). Then try -1 on CAS etc. If you read back thru htis thread you will find some performance tips (like lowering tRTP and tFAW etc).


----------



## BradleyW

jfriend00 said:


> Which of the secondary and tertiary timings (all the timings except the 18-19-19-39-2) are set on auto versus set manually by you?
> 
> My usual procedure is to set everything on auto except the primaries and then play with frequency and primaries and DRAM voltage to see how high a frequency I can go. Then, and only then, do I benchmark in AIDA64 memory benchmark and start working on lowering secondary and tertiary timings to see how much I can speed up the benchmark. If you try to go faster with a few secondary or tertiary timings too tight, then it won't work and you won't know why.
> 
> If your memory is good Samsung b-die, you should be able to eventually get to 16-17-17-37 @ 4000MHz and DRAM voltage of 1.45V with appropriate secondary and tertiaries. I wouldn't jump there right away, but work your way up, proving stability as you go.
> 
> For a next step, I'd suggest you raise the DRAM voltage to 1.40V, put VCCIO and VCCSA at 1.22V, put all the secondary and tertiary timings on "auto" and then see what speed you can boot and pass a memory test on at your existing 18-19-19-39-2 timings. If you get success at 4000MHz, then you can experiment with lower the primary timings seeing how close to 16-17-17-37 you can get. Once you're stable at 4000MHz, you might be able to get the primary timings even lower by raising the DRAM voltage to 1.45V.
> 
> Note that when playing with primaries with a lot of secondaries on "auto", it may take awhile for the motherboard to "train" all those "auto" settings and find something that boots. Every motherboard is a bit different in this regard, but my ASRock Taichi may take 3-5 minutes to go through a whole training sequence trying to find timings that work. One has to be patient letting it go through that process.


The timings that you can see in the screenshot were set by the XMP. I have since manually set the RAM to 3700MHz and punched in almost all the timings you can see by hand. I have no issues booting at 4000MHz but only when XMP is enabled. However it isn't stable at such speed during RAM Test. Incidentally each stick, tested on it's own, runs at it's rated 4000MHz speed without an error with XMP ON.



Jpmboy said:


> if this is stable (to on/off cycles, cold starts). SAVE IT. I would not yet look to a higher frequency, but lower/tighten the timinigs on this frequency first. You can safely run ddr4 at 1.45V so don;t be afraid to up the Vdimm. First try 1T (add 25mV to vdimm). Then try -1 on CAS etc. If you read back thru htis thread you will find some performance tips (like lowering tRTP and tFAW etc).


I've saved it. The timings are more or less similar to what XMP set for 3700MHz so if I lost the settings It wouldn't be a massive deal. I am going to try and see if I can go a little higher and if not I'll certainly tweak my current speed.


----------



## xSneak

Just started tinkering around with my new kit of ram. I discovered that I might have been wrong earlier about max tweak in the asus bios. To train rtls in the asus bios, you have to go to "memory training algorithms" in the dram timing menu and manually enable the setting! Everyone with 70+ RTL & 14/13 IO-L isn't training RTL or missed training.
My question is, if I want the lowest memory latency, what settings should I prioritize? Does 1 command rate matter that much? 

I got the system stable at the xmp settings on 4700mhz, however it took 1.36v vccsa for it so I decided not to run that. I seem to need 1.296v system agent for 4600mhz


----------



## BradleyW

3800MHz is stable (see image). VCCIO/IA 1.24v, VDIMM 1.4v.

4000MHz failed within seconds. I upped VCCIO/IA from 1.24 to 1.25v. It lasted 8 minutes. Upped VDIMM to 1.42v. Been testing 40 minutes.

Cheers.


----------



## SgtRotty

I need at least 1.44v-1.45v for dram minimum for 4000mhz


----------



## BradleyW

SgtRotty said:


> I need at least 1.44v-1.45v minimum for 4000mhz


I'll keep that in mind. Is 4 hours enough to run RAM Test or should I aim for around the 6 hour mark?


----------



## The Pook

BradleyW said:


> 3800MHz is stable (see image). VCCIO/IA 1.24v, VDIMM 1.4v.
> 
> 4000MHz failed within seconds. I upped VCCIO/IA from 1.24 to 1.25v. It lasted 8 minutes. Upped VDIMM to 1.42v. Been testing 40 minutes.
> 
> Cheers.



I've failed after the 4+ hour mark plenty of times, don't count your chickens yet  

I run RAM Test at least 8 hours and if passes I call it good enough for my use. I just run it overnight while I sleep.


----------



## Jpmboy

so far, I've never had ramtest throw an error in many hours, that GSAT did not find in 1 or 2 hours.
I got a RT 9 hour run at 4500 that I'll post for The Pook later today. (confirmed with GSAT too!)


----------



## The Pook

so you can rub in that your RAM and motherboard are better than mine? :sad-smile




:laughings


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> so you can rub in that your RAM and motherboard are better than mine? :sad-smile
> :laughings


you made me feel guilty, like a PE event in only showing 3 hours of Ramtest.


----------



## SgtRotty

What should my rtl and iol be set at roughly with cl16 4000mhz? Whats decent so i can tinker?

On auto, rtl are 74


----------



## BradleyW

4000 failed after 2h 16m. I've put vDIMM to 1.43 (from 1.42). Now retesting.


----------



## NIK1

I have been stress testing my G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR overclocked to 3866 at 15 15 15 36 1T 1.47v with 1.25000v IO and 1.27500v SA for 2.5 hours and so far no errors..My Ram temps on both sticks have reached 42 degrees C..Is this a good temp for these sticks when stressing for this amount of time..Also,at what temp is the "safe limit" should I watch for...At idle they both are at 30 c. and 42 c. with 2.5 hr stress testing.Just thought this might be a good thing to know !


----------



## shellashock

NIK1 said:


> I have been stress testing my G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR overclocked to 3866 at 15 15 15 36 1T 1.47v with 1.25000v IO and 1.27500v SA for 2.5 hours and so far no errors..My Ram temps on both sticks have reached 42 degrees C..Is this a good temp for these sticks when stressing for this amount of time..Also,at what temp is the "safe limit" should I watch for...At idle they both are at 30 c. and 42 c. with 2.5 hr stress testing.Just thought this might be a good thing to know !


There really isn't a "safe" limit that works 100% of the time because it is highly dependent on how tight your existing timings are. Even small changes in temperature will change the impedance of the traces and introduce tiny delays or skews in the data transfer that can cause the signal to be interpreted incorrectly; especially when pushing the bleeding edge of stability. For example, I have some B-Die sticks at 4000 16/18/18/38 that are stable up until 31C and will start generating small number of errors after they hit 31.3C or higher. This is with forced airflow in a 24-26C room mind you. 

I am currently testing if I can lower VDIMM/SA/IO and still be stable; with preliminary results showing it has been stable for over 8 hours because it is sitting at 30.5C instead of the typical 31.3C before it fails within 2-3 hours 

With that being said, keeping the stick temperature around 20-30C AND as consistent as possible is in your best interest for stable memory OC. That's why using forced air over the sticks at all times will maximize your oc. The cool air constantly blowing on the sticks will minimize the temperature delta from training time to stress testing; thus minimizing the skew that is introduced by temperature based impedance changes over the initial settings from the DRAM training's impedance matching.

I highly recommend you look at some of Praz's posts in this thread as they explain this sort of thing far better than me. "kignt" quoted a great post from Praz about the "data eye" just recently on page 872 of this thread that you may be interested in.


----------



## kignt

Seeing some asus mem tweakit screenshots where the tWRPRE doesn't always follow the formula, tWRPRE = 4 + tWR + tCWL. I know asus timing config shows it when scrolled down, and I imagine it almost always follows that formula. I'm guessing asus bios can adjust tWRPRE outside of the formula or possible incorrect reporting of some timing?


----------



## kignt

I hoped my settings would run karhu cache-enabled indefinitely... Ran programs in order: karhu, gsat, then hci. Cold booted twice beforehand. My ram lacks temp sensors


----------



## Jpmboy

kignt said:


> I hoped my settings would run karhu cache-enabled indefinitely... Ran programs in order: karhu, gsat, then hci. Cold booted twice beforehand. My ram lacks temp sensors


 that error at 27K% is meaningless. that ram is stable by any rationale measure! :thumb:


NIK1 said:


> I have been stress testing my G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR overclocked to 3866 at 15 15 15 36 1T 1.47v with 1.25000v IO and 1.27500v SA for 2.5 hours and so far no errors..My Ram temps on both sticks have reached 42 degrees C..Is this a good temp for these sticks when stressing for this amount of time..Also,at what temp is the "safe limit" should I watch for...At idle they both are at 30 c. and 42 c. with 2.5 hr stress testing.Just thought this might be a good thing to know !


actually... you should be happy that the settings are stable at 42C. The ICs are rated for a much high temperature AOR. :thumb:


But - does 3866 _really _require 1.275VSA?


----------



## jfriend00

BradleyW said:


> 4000 failed after 2h 16m. I've put vDIMM to 1.43 (from 1.42). Now retesting.


Just so you know, VDIMM isn't something you need to inch up 0.01V at a time. Just go to 1.45V and test it there. If it's stable, you can later decide if you want to try something less. DRAM is fine even at 1.50V.


----------



## BradleyW

jfriend00 said:


> Just so you know, VDIMM isn't something you need to inch up 0.01V at a time. Just go to 1.45V and test it there. If it's stable, you can later decide if you want to try something less. DRAM is fine even at 1.50V.


Roger that, thank you.

So far I'm 4h 30m on RAM Test @ 4000, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.43 (1.416 in Windows). 

Got a silent fan near the RAM now. Reduced RAM temps from 44c to around 34c.

Edit:

4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.42 - RAM Test FAILED 2h 16m.
4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.43 - RAM Test FAILED 4h 45m.
4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.44 - RAM Test FAILED 8m.
4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.45 - RAM Test FAILED 4m.
4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.46 - RAM Test FAILED 1m.
4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.26, vDIMM @ 1.46 - RAM Test FAILED 30s.

Anything above vDIMM 1.43 results in bad instability. Anything above VCCIO/IA 1.25 also throws errors. I think 4000MHz might be out of the question at this point.


----------



## Benjiw

BradleyW said:


> Roger that, thank you.
> 
> So far I'm 4h 30m on RAM Test @ 4000, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.43 (1.416 in Windows).
> 
> Got a silent fan near the RAM now. Reduced RAM temps from 44c to around 34c.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.42 - RAM Test FAILED 2h 16m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.43 - RAM Test FAILED 4h 45m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.44 - RAM Test FAILED 8m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.45 - RAM Test FAILED 4m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.46 - RAM Test FAILED 1m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.26, vDIMM @ 1.46 - RAM Test FAILED 30s.
> 
> Anything above vDIMM 1.43 results in bad instability. Anything above VCCIO/IA 1.25 also throws errors. I think 4000MHz might be out of the question at this point.


Looks to me that you have your voltages up too high, ie VCCIO/IA You failed the test faster by only changing the VCCIO/IA volts at the end there. Remember when overclocking RAM, its voltage sensetive and to get the results you are going to have to test and test and test, it's just a game of patience. You also might need to increase CPU voltage to help get stability.


----------



## Hydroplane

Looks like I got a dud in my g skill 4133c19 kit. Could only boot my Z390 setup with 1 of the 2 dimms. Tried it on X299 and got the same result


----------



## xSneak

BradleyW said:


> Roger that, thank you.
> 
> So far I'm 4h 30m on RAM Test @ 4000, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.43 (1.416 in Windows).
> 
> Got a silent fan near the RAM now. Reduced RAM temps from 44c to around 34c.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.42 - RAM Test FAILED 2h 16m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.43 - RAM Test FAILED 4h 45m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.44 - RAM Test FAILED 8m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.45 - RAM Test FAILED 4m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.25, vDIMM @ 1.46 - RAM Test FAILED 1m.
> 4000MHz, VCCIO/IA 1.26, vDIMM @ 1.46 - RAM Test FAILED 30s.
> 
> Anything above vDIMM 1.43 results in bad instability. Anything above VCCIO/IA 1.25 also throws errors. I think 4000MHz might be out of the question at this point.


Vccio / system agent don't need to be the same voltage. If you change them around you may get more stability. Although at a certain point it becomes a waste of time if you are already stable.


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> that error at 27K% is meaningless. that ram is stable by any rationale measure! :thumb:
> 
> actually... you should be happy that the settings are stable at 42C. The ICs are rated for a much high temperature AOR. :thumb:
> 
> 
> But - does 3866 _really _require 1.275VSA?


Thanks for the info..I will try to lower it and test to see if stable..I thought it was kind of high also..


----------



## BradleyW

Benjiw said:


> Looks to me that you have your voltages up too high, ie VCCIO/IA You failed the test faster by only changing the VCCIO/IA volts at the end there. Remember when overclocking RAM, its voltage sensetive and to get the results you are going to have to test and test and test, it's just a game of patience. You also might need to increase CPU voltage to help get stability.


If you also look, anything over vDIMM 1.43 resulted in quick instability. My Vcore is at 1.27 @ 4.7GHz. (Stock settings).



xSneak said:


> Vccio / system agent don't need to be the same voltage. If you change them around you may get more stability. Although at a certain point it becomes a waste of time if you are already stable.


What VCCIO/IA would you try? Should the VCCIO be lower than VCCIA in general?

As it stands, I've dropped the RAM down to 3866. VCCIO 1.23, VCCIA 1.24, vDIMM 1.43v. 3h 30m stable so far.

When I tested 3800 XMP OFF, I noticed the timings are the same as XMP apart from tREFI. XMP OFF = 14282. XMP ON = 15600. Is the lower number the tighter timing? If so, it doesn't make sense as to why it is far more unstable with XMP ON.


----------



## The Pook

For tREFI higher is better. Should be able to run at least 40-50000. I'm at 60000 at 4133.


----------



## Nizzen

Did anyone her overclock 2x16GB b-die memory on z390 like Apex/gene?

Wonder how fast it is possible to get them. G.skill 4000 c18/19 or 3600 c17.


----------



## Benjiw

BradleyW said:


> If you also look, anything over vDIMM 1.43 resulted in quick instability. My Vcore is at 1.27 @ 4.7GHz. (Stock settings).
> 
> 
> 
> What VCCIO/IA would you try? Should the VCCIO be lower than VCCIA in general?
> 
> As it stands, I've dropped the RAM down to 3866. VCCIO 1.23, VCCIA 1.24, vDIMM 1.43v. 3h 30m stable so far.
> 
> When I tested 3800 XMP OFF, I noticed the timings are the same as XMP apart from tREFI. XMP OFF = 14282. XMP ON = 15600. Is the lower number the tighter timing? If so, it doesn't make sense as to why it is far more unstable with XMP ON.


Like said before ram overclocking is a really really time consuming task and requires patience and every stick of ram is not the same, I think I need to start my overclocking again as I've hit a wall on finding stability. It's doing my head in lol.

tREFI, this is the time your ram can do stuff in simple terms, but can cause corruption i've read if the motherboard isn't good enough to run it at that rating. on the other side of the coin tRFC the lower that is the better. but not enough voltage and it won't be stable.


----------



## xSneak

BradleyW said:


> If you also look, anything over vDIMM 1.43 resulted in quick instability. My Vcore is at 1.27 @ 4.7GHz. (Stock settings).
> 
> 
> 
> What VCCIO/IA would you try? Should the VCCIO be lower than VCCIA in general?
> 
> As it stands, I've dropped the RAM down to 3866. VCCIO 1.23, VCCIA 1.24, vDIMM 1.43v. 3h 30m stable so far.
> 
> When I tested 3800 XMP OFF, I noticed the timings are the same as XMP apart from tREFI. XMP OFF = 14282. XMP ON = 15600. Is the lower number the tighter timing? If so, it doesn't make sense as to why it is far more unstable with XMP ON.


Assuming you have stable timings, I would tune vccsa and vccio by using ram test. If you can boot into windows and run ramtest without blue screening, you are somewhat stable already. Just keep retrying ramtest while changing the voltages in windows; the longer it runs before error, the more stable it is. Certain values may result in blue screen and I wouldn't run above 1.30v on either of them. My 2 x 16GB kit wanted 1.248v vccsa and 1.280v vccio for stability.

Trefi is the time interval between memory refreshes, so the higher it is the more performant.


----------



## xSneak

Nizzen said:


> Did anyone her overclock 2x16GB b-die memory on z390 like Apex/gene?
> 
> Wonder how fast it is possible to get them. G.skill 4000 c18/19 or 3600 c17.


Somone had the g.skill 4000 c19 kit running at 3900mhz cl16 on a z390 dark.


----------



## BradleyW

..


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> annotated in-line


 @Jpmboy

I'm trying to find a guide to ALL the timings rules to tune my timings. Can't find a definitive guide or post.

Can you list every timing rule we need to adhere by when setting timings?

It would help a lot, I see some conflicting info. 

Below are my current timings for reference.

Edit: I found this. Still relevant and are they correct?

https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...le-posting-resuts-using-rule-appreciated.html


----------



## rv8000

So after my first Z390 Dark immediately quitting on me, I'm finally up and running. I made the switch from the Aorus Master up to the Dark, but in terms of memory overclocking with the same kit I've seen a nice improvement. The aorus would let me post above ddr4000, on the Dark im now stable @ 4300 with the same voltage (albeit looser timings).

Anyways I've noticed that my read score is somewhat lower than average in comparison to my write. From the few posts I've seen with AIDA results most people seem to have around a ~1500MB/s difference between read and write, whereas I'm seeing about a 4000MB/s difference. I haven't touched my 8600k yet, so is this due to timings or my cache/cpu being at stock?

I've also notice that my kit refuses to post whenever I lower tRFC below the default of 631.


----------



## The Pook

I was able to boot and bench at 4133 CL15 @ 1.55v vDIMM. Decided to try and run RAM Test but I wanted to drop to 1.5v first (did it in the OS with AsRock's A-Tuning software) and got a BSOD. Guess that's a no 



rv8000 said:


> Anyways I've noticed that my read score is somewhat lower than average in comparison to my write. From the few posts I've seen with AIDA results most people seem to have around a ~1500MB/s difference between read and write, whereas I'm seeing about a 4000MB/s difference. I haven't touched my 8600k yet, so is this due to timings or my cache/cpu being at stock?



A lot of your timings are a lot higher than most people in the thread. tREFI, tRFC, and tWRRD_sg/dg are high (or low in the case of tREFI) even for the speed you're at. Likely the reason your results aren't in-line with everyone else's.

I also have no idea what I'm talking about so maybe it's gremlins.


----------



## rv8000

The Pook said:


> I was able to boot and bench at 4133 CL15 @ 1.55v vDIMM. Decided to try and run RAM Test but I wanted to drop to 1.5v first (did it in the OS with AsRock's A-Tuning software) and got a BSOD. Guess that's a no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of your timings are a lot higher than most people in the thread. tREFI, tRFC, and tWRRD_sg/dg are high (or low in the case of tREFI) even for the speed you're at. Likely the reason your results aren't in-line with everyone else's.
> 
> I also have no idea what I'm talking about so maybe it's gremlins.


I haven't altered any tertiary timings yet, but I just don't see them making that kind of different. I know my primary timings are relatively loose but it performs better than my ddr4000 settings at c17 with less voltage at that.

For example someone has a setup @ 4500 with c17, pulling ~66500 mb/s read, and ~ 68000mb/s second write. I'm more wondering if theres something specific I'm doing/not doing thats obvious because I have more than double the delta between my read/write; though they did have trefi at 65000. I'd love to get my tRFC lower, but anything below 600 doesn't post, and a lot of people with B-die seem to be getting as low as the high 200's and low 300's.

Not many in depth guides I can find that actually explain all the memory timings and their relationships


----------



## kignt

rv8000 said:


> I haven't altered any tertiary timings yet, but I just don't see them making that kind of different. I know my primary timings are relatively loose but it performs better than my ddr4000 settings at c17 with less voltage at that.
> 
> For example someone has a setup @ 4500 with c17, pulling ~66500 mb/s read, and ~ 68000mb/s second write. I'm more wondering if theres something specific I'm doing/not doing thats obvious because I have more than double the delta between my read/write; though they did have trefi at 65000. I'd love to get my tRFC lower, but anything below 600 doesn't post, and a lot of people with B-die seem to be getting as low as the high 200's and low 300's.
> 
> Not many in depth guides I can find that actually explain all the memory timings and their relationships


Raising the cache/uncore clock affects benchmark numbers, I'm not sure to what extent. If change that, it should affect cpu/core and memory stability too


----------



## The Pook

rv8000 said:


> I haven't altered any tertiary timings yet, but I just don't see them making that kind of different.



Sure it does. Changing tWRWR_dg off auto and setting it manually got me 20GB/s increases in read. Primaries are important but so are secondaries/tertiaries. 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-210.html#post27881422

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-210.html#post27881444


----------



## BradleyW

I feel a bit stupid, but I thought I should share. I set the primary timings to the same as the XMP rated. However, the manual timing option only changed the secondary and misc timings for both channels. So I had 1 stick at 18-19-19-39 and another at 15-16-16-36.

After setting primary timings for both sticks, so far I am stable (again, so far...still testing) with the following:

3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000.


----------



## rv8000

The Pook said:


> Sure it does. Changing tWRWR_dg off auto and setting it manually got me 20GB/s increases in read. Primaries are important but so are secondaries/tertiaries.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-210.html#post27881422
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-210.html#post27881444


Hmm, I got about a ~1.5GB/s increase across the board, but the difference between read and write still remains.

So my guess is it's either related to cpu/uncore or tRFC.


----------



## BradleyW

My tWRWR_dg is set to 4 by default by my motherboard.


----------



## kongasdf

BradleyW said:


> Is FFT 1344 good enough to pick up core instability as well as cache?
> 
> Should I run the FFT's in place?
> 
> Thank you.


I found that the memory power of in-place testing was lower than that without in-place.
But I don't know if it affects uncore.
Due to the unofficial modified BIOS, which shows uncorrect uncore power comsumption, it getting lower and lower in stress testing.


----------



## xSneak

Does anyone know about the memory training algorithm section of the asus bios? Any setttings I can turn on for better stability or to get my memory to train rtl more consistently?


----------



## kongasdf

hamideteru said:


> M11A 4000 Over 1T Setting
> Trace Centering Disable → Boot Failure
> Trace Centering Enable → Test OK


Hi, Can you pass the latest version of Prime95 29.7b1 with Large FFT for 1hr?


----------



## BradleyW

Gutted. Failed after 8h 20m Approx with the following:

3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000:

Upped VCCIO to 1.2v and it failed after 8 minutes. So at least I know I don't need to adjust the VCCIO at this point. Trying again with a slight vDIMM increase (1.368v). My RAM doesn't like too much voltage so I have to be careful. I'm getting close.

How long do you all run RAM Test before saying, "hey, it's stable enough for me"?


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> Gutted. Failed after 8h 20m Approx with the following:
> 
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000:
> 
> Upped VCCIO to 1.2v and it failed after 8 minutes. So at least I know I don't need to adjust the VCCIO at this point. Trying again with a slight vDIMM increase (1.368v). My RAM doesn't like too much voltage so I have to be careful. I'm getting close.
> 
> How long do you all run RAM Test before saying, "hey, it's stable enough for me"?


If you don't mind the OS being corrupted in the future then it will be fine for you.


----------



## BradleyW

wingman99 said:


> If you don't mind the OS being corrupted in the future then it will be fine for you.


I'm not fine with that. How long should I test for?


----------



## The Pook

Depends who you ask and the amount of RAM you're testing and number of threads you're assigning to it. 

I run it for at least 8 hours on 12-14 threads and 10-12 GB.


----------



## BradleyW

The Pook said:


> Depends who you ask and the amount of RAM you're testing and number of threads you're assigning to it.
> 
> I run it for at least 8 hours on 12-14 threads and 10-12 GB.


I have 16GB. I am using all 16 threads with 1.5GB free RAM during testing.

I'm still having a hard time here. So close yet so far. Any slight adjustment is really throwing me off.

3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8h 30m.
3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM *1.36v* - tREFI 50,000 = 1h.
3866MHz - VCCIO *1.20v* - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8m.
3866MHz - VCCIO *1.18v* - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = TESTING


----------



## The Pook

BradleyW said:


> I have 16GB. I am using all 16 threads with 1.5GB free RAM during testing.
> 
> I'm still having a hard time here. So close yet so far. Any slight adjustment is really throwing me off.
> 
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8h 30m.
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM *1.36v* - tREFI 50,000 = 1h.
> 3866MHz - VCCIO *1.20v* - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8m.
> 3866MHz - VCCIO *1.18v* - VCCIA 1.23v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = TESTING



what's the times? time it lasted until it failed or the time you let it run?


----------



## BradleyW

The Pook said:


> what's the times? time it lasted until it failed or the time you let it run?


The times it lasted until it failed RAM Test.


----------



## plisskin

Hi everyone again, 

I'm trying new oc on my new set, but I have several difficulties, Can someone help me with timing config please??? Thanks!!

this is not 1000% stable. more or lees I want this performance


----------



## jfriend00

BradleyW said:


> How long do you all run RAM Test before saying, "hey, it's stable enough for me"?


Believe it or not, that's a controversial question with lots of opinions. I run RAMTest overnight (e.g. 8-10 hours), but I make sure I have case fans running a decent amount (not just on idle) so I'm not letting the DRAM get hotter than it will ever get in the real world (which might create a false error that wouldn't happen under real use). 

If you're getting failures after 4 hours, you should make sure your DRAM isn't getting hotter and hotter the longer you run it. With typical ambient temps around 23C (74F), you should be able to easily keep your DIMM temps below 42C with a modest amount of case airflow (assuming your case airflow creates some flow across the DIMM heat spreaders). It's not like the DRAM gets damaged above 42C, but temperature does change some silicon properties which can affect these nano-second memory timings. If your memory overclock is anywhere near the edge of stability, a small change in temperature can push it over the edge (perhaps even just on one RAM chip). I'm not advocating something like DIMM coolers, just advocating that you make sure you're testing at DIMM temps that will actually happen in your real world usage and not finding errors that would never occur in real world usage.

FYI, because of a perceived difficulty in testing the reliability of tREFI values with typical memory testers, I set mine a bit more conservatively at 25000.


----------



## jfriend00

plisskin said:


> Hi everyone again,
> 
> I'm trying new oc on my new set, but I have several difficulties, Can someone help me with timing config please??? Thanks!!
> 
> this is not 1000% stable. more or lees I want this performance


So, my experience with memory overclocking is that you don't go to a performance you like and then try to make it stable because there's no way to tell which timing or timings are causing the instability. There are literally thousands of permutations for what might be making it unstable.

Instead, you find a configuration that tests stable in a 3-4 hour memory test (typically with looser secondary and tertiary timings) and then you one by one, lower timings, testing each as you go. If you think you have confidence based on other configurations you've seen that you can lower 3-4 timings at once, then go for it, but test it for at least 3-4 hours before moving on. The absolutely worst thing to do is to change a timing, test it for 15 minutes, assume stability, go to the next timing, test it for 15 minutes, assume stability, then repeat that 10 more times and then finally run a 4 hour memory test and find it's not stable. You will have no idea which of the things you did in the last 4 hours caused the instability and all that previous time will be completely wasted. 

In my experience, the only scheme that doesn't end up throwing away lots of wasted time is to move slowly and test 3-4 hours regularly. At each step document exactly what timings you have, what AIDA64 performance numbers you have and how long you ran your memory tester with no errors. I grab screenshots of each and paste them into an evernote document (which I can then get to from another computer if the computer I'm working on won't boot). This allows me to reliably backtrack to the last known stable point if at any time I find I have stability issues.


----------



## BradleyW

jfriend00 said:


> Believe it or not, that's a controversial question with lots of opinions. I run RAMTest overnight (e.g. 8-10 hours), but I make sure I have case fans running a decent amount (not just on idle) so I'm not letting the DRAM get hotter than it will ever get in the real world (which might create a false error that wouldn't happen under real use).
> 
> If you're getting failures after 4 hours, you should make sure your DRAM isn't getting hotter and hotter the longer you run it. With typical ambient temps around 23C (74F), you should be able to easily keep your DIMM temps below 42C with a modest amount of case airflow (assuming your case airflow creates some flow across the DIMM heat spreaders). It's not like the DRAM gets damaged above 42C, but temperature does change some silicon properties which can affect these nano-second memory timings. If your memory overclock is anywhere near the edge of stability, a small change in temperature can push it over the edge (perhaps even just on one RAM chip). I'm not advocating something like DIMM coolers, just advocating that you make sure you're testing at DIMM temps that will actually happen in your real world usage and not finding errors that would never occur in real world usage.
> 
> FYI, because of a perceived difficulty in testing the reliability of tREFI values with typical memory testers, I set mine a bit more conservatively at 25000.


Thank you for the information.

After the 8 hour run, my DIMM temps were 33c, 36c. I have a 140mm fan positioned near the sticks.
I may also consider reducing the tREFI if I continue to struggle.
For now I'll continue to check the temperatures closely and play around with the voltages. I'll update the thread with my results and we'll see where to go from there.

Thank you for the help everyone so far. I wouldn't have got to this stage without the help from you all.


----------



## xSneak

My ram is trying to torture me....


----------



## gammagoat

Anybody see any real changes that I could make with my ram? 

I've been trying to adjust RTL/IO-l but am not having much luck, so far can only go up 1 on offset. Is there anything else I can adjust so that I can lower this value?


----------



## xSneak

BradleyW said:


> Thank you for the information.
> 
> After the 8 hour run, my DIMM temps were 33c, 36c. I have a 140mm fan positioned near the sticks.
> I may also consider reducing the tREFI if I continue to struggle.
> For now I'll continue to check the temperatures closely and play around with the voltages. I'll update the thread with my results and we'll see where to go from there.
> 
> Thank you for the help everyone so far. I wouldn't have got to this stage without the help from you all.


tRefi isnt that important of a setting. I wouldn't tune voltages to try and get it stable if it was stable before.


----------



## xSneak

gammagoat said:


> Anybody see any real changes that I could make with my ram?
> 
> I've been trying to adjust RTL/IO-l but am not having much luck, so far can only go up 1 on offset. Is there anything else I can adjust so that I can lower this value?


Go into asus bios ---> Dram Timing Settings ---> Memory Training Algorithms ---> Round Trip Latency [Enable]


----------



## davidm71

Hi guys,

Been researching the differences in dual rank vs single rank performance and overclocking and have come up with some conclusion if you would please verify.

Basically 4x8gb (single rank) will overclock better than 2 x 16gb (dual rank) and max out at 3600mhz.

dual rank modules however perform better and negate the single rank overclock frequency advantage.

2 x 16gb modules however will allow the memory controller more stability in reaching what ever frequency your trying to reach..

Does that all sound correct in regards to Intel Z170 - Z390 overclocking?

Thanks


----------



## BradleyW

xSneak said:


> tRefi isnt that important of a setting. I wouldn't tune voltages to try and get it stable if it was stable before.


It wasn't stable in the first place, but I'm close to finding stability. Very close.


----------



## jfriend00

davidm71 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Been researching the differences in dual rank vs single rank performance and overclocking and have come up with some conclusion if you would please verify.
> 
> Basically 4x8gb (single rank) will overclock better than 2 x 16gb (dual rank) and max out at 3600mhz.
> 
> dual rank modules however perform better and negate the single rank overclock frequency advantage.
> 
> 2 x 16gb modules however will allow the memory controller more stability in reaching what ever frequency your trying to reach..
> 
> Does that all sound correct in regards to Intel Z170 - Z390 overclocking?
> 
> Thanks


I don't think any of these conclusions are necessarily true.

For example, there are folks in this thread that have both 4x8 and 2x16 sets running stable at speeds above 4000, so it's not true that a 4x8 set maxes out at 3600MHz.

Last time I researched this, there is no conclusive conclusion about which is better. It does seem clear that a 2x16 set would be best in a two DIMM board and a 4x8 set would be best in a board that uses t-topology DRAM traces. Beyond that, I don't think there's any way to say which is always better than the other. It appears to "depend" upon circumstances and who you ask.

You can read: Claims on 2x16 vs 4x8 memory overclocking - true or false? for a previous shot at this topic.


----------



## plisskin

jfriend00 said:


> So, my experience with memory overclocking is that you don't go to a performance you like and then try to make it stable because there's no way to tell which timing or timings are causing the instability. There are literally thousands of permutations for what might be making it unstable.
> 
> Instead, you find a configuration that tests stable in a 3-4 hour memory test (typically with looser secondary and tertiary timings) and then you one by one, lower timings, testing each as you go. If you think you have confidence based on other configurations you've seen that you can lower 3-4 timings at once, then go for it, but test it for at least 3-4 hours before moving on. The absolutely worst thing to do is to change a timing, test it for 15 minutes, assume stability, go to the next timing, test it for 15 minutes, assume stability, then repeat that 10 more times and then finally run a 4 hour memory test and find it's not stable. You will have no idea which of the things you did in the last 4 hours caused the instability and all that previous time will be completely wasted.
> 
> In my experience, the only scheme that doesn't end up throwing away lots of wasted time is to move slowly and test 3-4 hours regularly. At each step document exactly what timings you have, what AIDA64 performance numbers you have and how long you ran your memory tester with no errors. I grab screenshots of each and paste them into an evernote document (which I can then get to from another computer if the computer I'm working on won't boot). This allows me to reliably backtrack to the last known stable point if at any time I find I have stability issues.



Hi jfriend, of course when I test ram I test it with the Ramtest, more or less one our to see if appears any error. If it appear then I change some timing but I have some difficulties to stabilize in this mobo, maybe the imc are too bad. But if I can ran at 4200 c17 1T I think the problem came from some timing.



I'm searching a timings to start again, because I have a lot of them in auto ( 2 and 3 timings) 



I will do what you said, I'll start from 0 and set a fully stable timings with "bad" performance and then lowering one by one but if someone can give me an estimation of 2 and 3 timings I'll apreciatte so much!!


Thanks a lot!


----------



## Frutek

Hello,

Recently I've tried to overclock my memory kit ( Kingston Predator DDR4 3200MHz, 16-18-18, 1.35V, HX432C16PB3K2/32 - Hynix IC). First I did aim for 3600Mhz and it worked fine with Auto timing settings from motherboard ( timings went up to 18-21-21). OC is stable in Realbench - 4hrs. The problem is it fails to even start Realbench after doing cold boot of my pc. After around 10 mins it's getting stable. 

I changed those voltages manually:
DRAM Voltage: 1.4V
VCCIO: 1.13V
SA: 1.2V

System specs are:
CPU [email protected] 1.285V
Motherboard Gigabyte z390 Aorus Master


----------



## xSneak

What are some single player games that are really sensitive to bad memory timings? I've had settings pass hci memtest crash multiple times in a single pubg game now. I got it stable after relaxing my trfc a little bit. Seems like all these programs are more supplemental than an actual confirmation of stability.
I'm going to try GTA V tomorrow.


----------



## PipJones

*5930K vs 5960X DDR4-3200 write performance*

I have replaced my 5930K with a 5960X.

I have them both running at x44 CPU.
- 5930 at x42 cache
- 5960 at x40 cache

I'm using 4x4Gb Corsair DDR4-3200 (CMK16GX4M4C3200C16)

https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categ...z-C16-Memory-Kit---Black/p/CMK16GX4M4C3200C16

Is this write performance normal? 

My expectation is that it would rise in line with Read & Copy - with a slight adjustment for reduced cache.


----------



## hamideteru

kongasdf said:


> Hi, Can you pass the latest version of Prime95 29.7b1 with Large FFT for 1hr?


Hi, Prime95 29.8b1 with Large FFT (NON AVX) for 1hr
Change Setting：vcore 1.320v → 1.350v
Room Temp 22℃
Prime 95 CPU is hard…


----------



## BradleyW

2x8GB DDR4 Trident Z - 9900K STOCK - GIGABYTE Z390 ULTRA F7

BIOS Readings ONLY:

Timings:
18-19-19-39, 18-19-19-39 - XMP OFF

RAM TEST

SPEED 
3866MHz - VCCIO 1.20v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8h 30m FAIL
3866MHz - VCCIO 1.20v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.36v - tREFI 50,000 = 1h FAIL
3866MHz - VCCIO 1.21v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8m FAIL
3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 10h PASS
3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.21v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 10h PASS
3866MHz - VCCIO 1.18v - VCCIA 1.20v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = TESTING

How are things looking?


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> 2x8GB DDR4 Trident Z - 9900K STOCK - GIGABYTE Z390 ULTRA F7
> 
> BIOS Readings ONLY:
> 
> Timings:
> 18-19-19-39, 18-19-19-39 - XMP OFF
> 
> RAM TEST
> 
> SPEED
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.20v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8h 30m FAIL
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.20v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.36v - tREFI 50,000 = 1h FAIL
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.21v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8m FAIL
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 10h PASS
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.21v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 10h PASS
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.18v - VCCIA 1.20v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = TESTING
> 
> How are things looking?


Looks like your passing and failing do to boot-up memory training, because the voltage differences are negligible.


----------



## BradleyW

wingman99 said:


> Looks like your passing and failing do to boot-up memory training, because the voltage differences are negligible.


I check the timings on every boot up and they haven't changed at all. I can reproduce the test failings consistently by setting a voltage which previously failed.


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> I check the timings on every boot up and they haven't changed at all. I can reproduce the failings consistently by setting a voltage which previously failed.


Have you tried not changing any settings and just reboot the PC and test, because your tests show passing with lower voltage than what failed before with higher voltage, because low voltage does not work well that way.


----------



## gammagoat

xSneak said:


> Go into asus bios ---> Dram Timing Settings ---> Memory Training Algorithms ---> Round Trip Latency [Enable]


I'll give it a shot, Thanks.

Any idea how this setting allows for higher RTL settings?


----------



## xSneak

BradleyW said:


> 2x8GB DDR4 Trident Z - 9900K STOCK - GIGABYTE Z390 ULTRA F7
> 
> BIOS Readings ONLY:
> 
> Timings:
> 18-19-19-39, 18-19-19-39 - XMP OFF
> 
> RAM TEST
> 
> SPEED
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.20v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8h 30m FAIL
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.20v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.36v - tREFI 50,000 = 1h FAIL
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.21v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 8m FAIL
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.22v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 10h PASS
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.19v - VCCIA 1.21v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = 10h PASS
> 3866MHz - VCCIO 1.18v - VCCIA 1.20v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000 = TESTING
> 
> How are things looking?


You just need to get a stable run down. If raising vdimm to 1.45v doesn't work you need different voltage om vccio/vccsa. Try vccsa at 1.30v and move down from there. You might need 1.26v vccio.

Another thing you can try is to set vccio at 1.15 or 1.20 and then see what vccsa voltage you need to cold boot windows and have the memory train. If the memory doesnt train the timings are at margins of stability for the voltage you are running. 
You seem to be having a lot of problems trying to get stable...


----------



## BradleyW

wingman99 said:


> Have you tried not changing any settings and just reboot the PC and test, because your tests show passing with lower voltage than what failed before with higher voltage, because low voltage does not work well that way.


Yes that's true, I have gained stability with lower voltages. This is not unheard of. Various users who go above a certain VCCIO/VCCSA voltage have experienced instability. I've found my VCCIO's voltage limit it would seem.

As for vDIMM, it doesn't like 1.36 - 1.39v. It does however like 1.4 - 1.43, but it's not entirely stable. 1.35v has shown to be what the RAM prefers.

As mentioned earlier, I am able to set the voltages which failed before hand, run RAM Test, and get an error. This shows proof of results. 

My latest test (3866MHz - VCCIO 1.18v - VCCIA 1.20v - vDIMM 1.35v - tREFI 50,000) was unstable. The VCCIO and/or VCCSA was too low. I have since put the VCCIO and VCCSA back up to 1.19v, 1.21v respectively. Stability has been regained as a result. This concludes that when the voltage is too high, it's unstable, and when the voltage is too low, it is also unstable.

All timings, including sub and misc, have remained the exact same throughout each test.

I'm just reporting what I've done, what I've found based on my testing, and the results I've seen, and my method of how I verified the results I received. I don't claim to be as knowledgeable on memory overclocking as you experts, but I am welcome to feedback and I thank you for the continued support.


----------



## jfriend00

plisskin said:


> Hi jfriend, of course when I test ram I test it with the Ramtest, more or less one our to see if appears any error. If it appear then I change some timing but I have some difficulties to stabilize in this mobo, maybe the imc are too bad. But if I can ran at 4200 c17 1T I think the problem came from some timing.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm searching a timings to start again, because I have a lot of them in auto ( 2 and 3 timings)
> 
> 
> 
> I will do what you said, I'll start from 0 and set a fully stable timings with "bad" performance and then lowering one by one but if someone can give me an estimation of 2 and 3 timings I'll apreciatte so much!!
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot!


There are dozens of sample timings posted in this thread. Just scroll back through the last 6-12 months and you can find lots of screenshots of all the timings for whatever speed you're trying to optimize. But, don't mess with a single secondary or tertiary timing off auto UNTIL you know you're stable, not just a one hour RAMTest, at least 3-4 hours.

The screenshots of other people's timings for Samsung B-die will show you what targets you can aim for with secondary and tertiary timings. You make small changes, test. If stable for 3-4 hours test, make additional small changes. If not, stable back up and get stable again before changing anything else. It's an iterative process where you use previous timings that other people have achieved as a target. 

FYI, I don't know of anyone who's getting 4200 and 1T together in a 4 DIMM board. I can get 4133 and 2T on my 2x8 B-die.


----------



## davidm71

Hey guys,

Was wondering whats the easiest fastest way to check ram oc stability?

Memtest86+ seems like it could take a while?

Should I use Aida64 instead?

Thanks


----------



## BradleyW

davidm71 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Was wondering whats the easiest fastest way to check ram oc stability?
> 
> Memtest86+ seems like it could take a while?
> 
> Should I use Aida64 instead?
> 
> Thanks


I recommend RAM Test.


----------



## Jpmboy

PipJones said:


> I have replaced my 5930K with a 5960X.
> 
> I have them both running at x44 CPU.
> - 5930 at x42 cache
> - 5960 at x40 cache
> I'm using 4x4Gb Corsair DDR4-3200 (CMK16GX4M4C3200C16)
> Is this write performance normal?
> My expectation is that it would rise in line with Read & Copy - with a slight adjustment for reduced cache.


 would really need to see all the timings for each. Different IMCs, may result in different 2nd, 3rd and rtls. And the cache difference can certainly lead to that small (few %) difference.




davidm71 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Was wondering whats the easiest fastest way to check ram oc stability?
> Memtest86+ seems like it could take a while?
> Should I use Aida64 instead?
> Thanks


16GB, HCi Memtest is very good. 32GB and higher, google stressapptest is the best IMO. RamTest is good too... GSAT just finds true ram errors faster.


----------



## jfriend00

davidm71 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Was wondering whats the easiest fastest way to check ram oc stability?
> 
> Memtest86+ seems like it could take a while?
> 
> Should I use Aida64 instead?
> 
> Thanks


Three recommendations:

Karhu's RAMTest (very small purchase required).

PassMark's MemTest86 (freeeware version is fine). Can run in Windows or can boot from USB stick to test all RAM outside of Windows.

HCI MemTest (freeware)

All of these work. I prefer RAMTest because it's really simple to use and seems to find errors pretty quickly (as these things go). I find MemTest86 thorough, but very slow to run. HCI MemTest benefits from a helper app that starts a separate instance for each CPU core you have, but many find it a robust test also.

My experience has been that you need at least a 3-4 hour test in RAMTest (for 16GB of DRAM, longer if you're testing 32GB or 64GB) to really verify stability and their web-site offers you stability probabilities based on how long you've run it. I don't think there are any shortcuts to test it faster if you really want to know.

When I think I have a solid configuration, I run a test overnight (8-10 hours) as an extra step.

When running a multi-hour test, I suggest you make sure you have enough case airflow that your RAM chips don't get hotter than they would in any normal use because that may cause you headaches with false positives, errors that the test finds that wouldn't actually occur under normal operating conditions. I manually turn up my case airflow before running a long test.

Some people also use Google Stress App Test (GSAT). It needs a Linux-like environment to run.


----------



## davidm71

jfriend00 said:


> Three recommendations:
> 
> Karhu's RAMTest (very small purchase required).
> 
> PassMark's MemTest86 (freeeware version is fine). Can run in Windows or can boot from USB stick to test all RAM outside of Windows.
> 
> HCI MemTest (freeware)
> 
> All of these work. I prefer RAMTest because it's really simple to use and seems to find errors pretty quickly (as these things go). I find MemTest86 thorough, but very slow to run. HCI MemTest benefits from a helper app that starts a separate instance for each CPU core you have, but many find it a robust test also.
> 
> My experience has been that you need at least a 3-4 hour test in RAMTest (for 16GB of DRAM, longer if you're testing 32GB or 64GB) to really verify stability and their web-site offers you stability probabilities based on how long you've run it. I don't think there are any shortcuts to test it faster if you really want to know.
> 
> When I think I have a solid configuration, I run a test overnight (8-10 hours) as an extra step.
> 
> When running a multi-hour test, I suggest you make sure you have enough case airflow that your RAM chips don't get hotter than they would in any normal use because that may cause you headaches with false positives, errors that the test finds that wouldn't actually occur under normal operating conditions. I manually turn up my case airflow before running a long test.
> 
> Some people also use Google Stress App Test (GSAT). It needs a Linux-like environment to run.


Ok Thanks will check it out!


----------



## BradleyW

Just to add to this, It very important to do at least a 10 hour run with RAM Test or equivalent because I've had errors a few times just after the 8 hour mark on configurations which are very close to being stable.


----------



## xSneak

gammagoat said:


> I'll give it a shot, Thanks.
> 
> Any idea how this setting allows for higher RTL settings?


I forgot to add that if you lower twrwr_dr & twrwr_dd / twrrd_dr & twrrd_dd timings it can tighten rtl training.


----------



## xSneak

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Old-school memory Corsair Vengeance LPX Red 16Gb 2x8 (CMK16GX4M2B4266C19R)
> Frequency maybe higher(I was already laid out here), but use this frequency as new to me
> View attachment 261596


I'm tuning one of these kits of ram. How stable are those settings, have you tried any games on them?


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Just to add to this, It very important to do at least a 10 hour run with RAM Test or equivalent because I've had errors a few times just after the 8 hour mark on configurations which are very close to being stable.


did you try GSAT on that configuration that popped an error just after 8 hours of ramtest??


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> did you try GSAT on that configuration that popped an error just after 8 hours of ramtest??


No, I just made changes and increased my test time to 10 hours.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> No, I just made changes and increased my test time to 10 hours.


 yeah, you may find the same information in much less time with GSAT. And it really does a better job of isolating the ram subsystem - not confounding a fail with IO or cache.
It's simple, just enable the linux subsystem in windows (optional features) and hit the W-store for Ubuntu. Update, app-get googlestressapptest and for 32GB the 1 hour command is:
_stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, you may find the same information in much less time with GSAT. And it really does a better job of isolating the ram subsystem - not confounding a fail with IO or cache.
> It's simple, just enable the linux subsystem in windows (optional features) and hit the W-store for Ubuntu. Update, app-get googlestressapptest and for 32GB the 1 hour command is:
> _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_


What's the command for 16GB RAM and how long should I test?

Thank you.


----------



## The Pook

BradleyW said:


> What's the command for 16GB RAM and how long should I test?
> 
> Thank you.



I'd imagine "-W -M *28672* -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700" is 28672MB. Just enter in a number >8192 so it hits both sticks but leaves room for still using the machine.

I've never used it though so maybe wait for him to answer you.


----------



## chibi

jfriend00 said:


> FYI, I don't know of anyone who's getting 4200 and 1T together. I can get 4133 and 2T on my 2x8 B-die.



Hey there :wave2:


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> What's the command for 16GB RAM and how long should I test?
> 
> Thank you.


12288.


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> 12288.


Thanks I'll give it a try tomorrow. How long should I test?


----------



## Silent Scone

chibi said:


> Hey there :wave2:


He is probably referring strictly to 4 DIMM boards (even if he doesn't realise it).


----------



## xSneak

Why does my system post at 4400mhz, 4600mhz, and 4700mhz, but will not at 4500 or 4533?


----------



## chibi

Silent Scone said:


> He is probably referring strictly to 4 DIMM boards (even if he doesn't realise it).



:doh: makes sense, there's plenty 4200+ 1T submissions in this thread.


----------



## BradleyW

xSneak said:


> Why does my system post at 4400mhz, 4600mhz, and 4700mhz, but will not at 4500 or 4533?


My system struggles to boot at 3733 and 3900. Any other speed is OK up to 4000. I think it has something to do with the sub timings. They might be a little too tight causing POST fail.


----------



## KedarWolf

I know I'm not the only person having issues with stressapptest. I got to over 1600% in HCI, 36000% in RamTest, but can't get through GSAT with the same settings or any reasonable settings I try without errors. 

I dunno why this is, but I've given up on it.


----------



## BradleyW

KedarWolf said:


> I know I'm not the only person having issues with stressapptest. I got to over 1600% in HCI, 36000% in RamTest, but can't get through GSAT with the same settings or any reasonable settings I try without errors.
> 
> I dunno why this is, but I've given up on it.


How long did you test for?


----------



## KedarWolf

BradleyW said:


> How long did you test for?


One hour, two hours, don't matter. This is in the Ubuntu Windows subsystem but I booted from a Linux Mint USB and ran GSAT as well, errors there too.


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> Why does my system post at 4400mhz, 4600mhz, and 4700mhz, but will not at 4500 or 4533?





BradleyW said:


> My system struggles to boot at 3733 and 3900. Any other speed is OK up to 4000. I think it has something to do with the sub timings. They might be a little too tight causing POST fail.


^^ they use different memory dividers (eg, the frequency multiplier top run that frequency) Sometime you can hit those odd frequencies by increasing BCLK from the next lower frequency easier than fighting a weak(er) memory divider.


KedarWolf said:


> I know I'm not the only person having issues with stressapptest. I got to over 1600% in HCI, 36000% in RamTest, but can't get through GSAT with the same settings or any reasonable settings I try without errors.
> 
> I dunno why this is, but I've given up on it.


no really? is it crashing or just showing errors?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ they use different memory dividers (eg, the frequency multiplier top run that frequency) Sometime you can hit those odd frequencies by increasing BCLK from the next lower frequency easier than fighting a weak(er) memory divider.
> 
> no really? is it crashing or just showing errors?


miscompare errors tried lowering cache from 47 to 46 too.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ they use different memory dividers (eg, the frequency multiplier top run that frequency) Sometime you can hit those odd frequencies by increasing BCLK from the next lower frequency easier than fighting a weak(er) memory divider.
> 
> no really? is it crashing or just showing errors?


Oh, Rep is back!!!!!!!!


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> miscompare errors tried lowering cache from 47 to 46 too.


was it hitting the pagefile?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> was it hitting the pagefile?


Pagefile disabled.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Thanks I'll give it a try tomorrow. How long should I test?


 the test time is in seconds... so 3600 = 1 hour. If it passes 1hour and you want to go longer, 7200 is 2 hours. Easy. Increase the pause_delay value to a number higher than the runtime value.




KedarWolf said:


> Pagefile disabled.


damn. but hey, RT and HCi do a fine job. It's those 32 and higher GB installs that can take geologic time to run, while GSAT handles it pretty easy.


----------



## Jpmboy

I know you guys will "poo-poo" this. Taking this "econo" 3000c15 SK Hynix 4x8GB ram kit to 3600c16 is a coup for me. Hynix has not (ever) been my friend.
stable at 3466, working on this 3600c16 setting (1.45V).


----------



## kignt

I'm still a believer in the cold boot test... but for settings that were thoroughly tested and then suddenly have post code 55 issues, I think should be fine to just enable mrc fast boot. 

update: like jpmboy suggested, raising vccsa voltage. seems good even with mrc fast boot disabled


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> the test time is in seconds... so 3600 = 1 hour. If it passes 1hour and you want to go longer, 7200 is 2 hours. Easy. Increase the pause_delay value to a number higher than the runtime value.


Makes sense, thank you.


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, you may find the same information in much less time with GSAT. And it really does a better job of isolating the ram subsystem - not confounding a fail with IO or cache.
> It's simple, just enable the linux subsystem in windows (optional features) and hit the W-store for Ubuntu. Update, app-get googlestressapptest and for 32GB the 1 hour command is:
> _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_


I've enabled Linux support, downloaded Ubuntu, ran the command and it won't install. Doesn't recognise. I then tried atp-get install. It reads and builds the package but fails to detect the "locate package".


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> I've enabled Linux support, downloaded Ubuntu, ran the command and it won't install. Doesn't recognise. I then tried atp-get install. It reads and builds the package but fails to detect the "locate package".


 after installing Ubuntu, and updating the ubuntu install (sudo update). then type: sudo apt-get install stressapptest
type "y" when needed...


----------



## Jpmboy

kignt said:


> I'm still a believer in the cold boot test... but for settings that were thoroughly tested and then suddenly have post code 55 issues, I think should be fine to just enable mrc fast boot.


55 is usually resolved with a bump in VSA and/or vccio in my experience, if it is resolvable at all (it thinks there is no ram detected). If you get a 49, that's different - mostly an RTL training issue (sometimes VDIMM can resolve this)


----------



## KedarWolf

BradleyW said:


> I've enabled Linux support, downloaded Ubuntu, ran the command and it won't install. Doesn't recognise. I then tried atp-get install. It reads and builds the package but fails to detect the "locate package".


Need to do:

sudo apt-get update

then:

sudo apt-get upgrade

lastly:

sudo apt-get install stressapptest


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> after installing Ubuntu, and updating the ubuntu install (sudo update). then type: sudo apt-get install stressapptest
> type "y" when needed...





KedarWolf said:


> Need to do:
> 
> sudo apt-get update
> 
> then:
> 
> sudo apt-get upgrade
> 
> lastly:
> 
> sudo apt-get install stressapptest


Thank you both. Got it running perfectly now.


----------



## KedarWolf

BradleyW said:


> Thank you both. Got it running perfectly now.


I'm just curious. Did you need to do the 'sudo apt-get upgrade'?

I ask because I've always done it in the Windows Ubuntu before installing stressapptest, but I've never tried with just 'sudo apt-get update' without the upgrade command.


----------



## Naatti

Any tips to get stability? Hynix CJR


----------



## BradleyW

Has my GSAT failed?

It just says Log: Resuming Worker threads to cause a power spike 2985s remaining. It's been running 48 mins. CPU is still pegged at 100% and RAM usage is 13.6GB as we speak.





KedarWolf said:


> I'm just curious. Did you need to do the 'sudo apt-get upgrade'?
> 
> I ask because I've always done it in the Windows Ubuntu before installing stressapptest, but I've never tried with just 'sudo apt-get update' without the upgrade command.


I just did the command anyway so I'm not sure.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Thank you both. Got it running perfectly now.


post back with your GSAT experience.


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> post back with your GSAT experience.


I have. Here was my post:



> Has my GSAT failed?
> 
> It just says Log: Resuming Worker threads to cause a power spike 2985s remaining. It's been running 48 mins. CPU is still pegged at 100% and RAM usage is 13.6GB as we speak.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> I have. Here was my post:


if that was a command window rport, you did not use the --pause_delay command. It is fine, and is working as it should absent the pause delay. That worker pause and "spike" is the default since this test is used on very large server farms allowing for a load break in those massive installations.
This is the proper command for 32GB. Adjust time and amount of ram as we discussed earlier... use the windows snipping tool to post a screen snip.

stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> if that was a command window rport, you did not use the --pause_delay command. It is fine, and is working as it should absent the pause delay. That worker pause and "spike" is the default since this test is used on very large server farms allowing for a load break in those massive installations.
> This is the proper command for 32GB. Adjust time and amount of ram as we discussed earlier... use the windows snipping tool to post a screen snip.
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700


I use 16GB. I'll give it a try now.

1 Hour, No Error, PASS.


----------



## wingman99

BradleyW said:


> I use 16GB. I'll give it a try now.
> 
> 1 Hour, No Error, PASS.


How and where did you install Ubuntu?


----------



## CptSpig

wingman99 said:


> How and where did you install Ubuntu?


https://www.ubuntu.com/


----------



## ssateneth

Anyone here with experience with dual rank high clocks on Z390? I know single rank is all the rage and there are a lot of resources on that. I want the extra RAM capacity while enjoying tighter RTL's so I have the equipment in my sig (2 DIMM s;pt board, 2 x 16GB dual rank b-die). Frequency, CAS, TREFI, TRFC, RTL, IOL, and most 3rd timings are dialed in right now and passed 24 hours of memtest 8.1 pro test #7 Other timings are auto, or not fully tightened yet. Voltages are still in flux until I figure out all timings for 24/7 (long, arduous process, especially if an error is thrown 16 hours into testing)


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> I use 16GB. I'll give it a try now.
> 
> 1 Hour, No Error, PASS.


Nice !! Your ram settings are good. If you suffer OCD, run 2 or more hours. 


CptSpig said:


> https://www.ubuntu.com/


 for the windows subsystem, you can get it free from the windows store.
Hey - I still have a Puppy Linux USB. Haven't tried it in a while, can be very handy.


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> Nice !! Your ram settings are good. If you suffer OCD, run 2 or more hours.
> 
> for the windows subsystem, you can get it free from the windows store.
> Hey - I still have a Puppy Linux USB. Haven't tried it in a while, can be very handy.


Yes, that's what I have used in the past thanks to you and your wisdom. :thumb: Windows 1903 we will be able to access Linux thru file explorer should be nice.


----------



## Jpmboy

CptSpig said:


> Yes, that's what I have used in the past thanks to you and your wisdom. :thumb: Windows 1903 we will be able to access Linux thru file explorer should be nice.


I have 1903 on one insider rig here. What's this about Linux thru file explorer?


----------



## xSneak

So far I have 4400mhz cl 16-20-20-?? trfc 410 @ 1.488v stable on my ram. Did i get a weak kit or is this expected? I was hoping for something amazing lol.
I should have got a different case that would give me the clearance for the g.skill 4800 set. -_-
When i got my memory the plastic seal on the box had already been broken so maybe it was returned to newegg previously.


----------



## KedarWolf

stressapptest -M 26311 -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700 

Is the above exactly the same command as:

stressapptest -W -M 26311 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700

I ask because I saw someone say do it the second way and now I'm not getting errors in GSAT. :h34r-smi


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> I have 1903 on one insider rig here. What's this about Linux thru file explorer?



https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/whats-new-for-wsl-in-windows-10-version-1903/


----------



## BradleyW

wingman99 said:


> How and where did you install Ubuntu?


Windows Store. Enable Linux in the "turn windows features on or off" menu beforehand.



Jpmboy said:


> Nice !! Your ram settings are good. If you suffer OCD, run 2 or more hours.


It just shows that I was correct that my system needed far less voltage to be stable. VCCIO no higher than 1.18 and vDIMM no higher than 1.35. VCCSA no LOWER than 1.21v. My benchmark results are also faster than the XMP setting for my speed. Probably because I upped one of the timings to 50,000. Can't remember the name of it.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf said:


> stressapptest -M 26311 -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700
> 
> Is the above exactly the same command as:
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 26311 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700
> 
> I ask because I saw someone say do it the second way and now I'm not getting errors in GSAT. :h34r-smi


Yeah, my GSAT errors were I had the command wrong. The second one is correct.


----------



## tw33k

@KedarWolf...can you share the Timings 4 tab on Mem TeakIt?


----------



## KedarWolf

tw33k said:


> @KedarWolf...can you share the Timings 4 tab on Mem TeakIt?


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Yeah, my GSAT errors were I had the command wrong. The second one is correct.



-W, more stressful algorithm than standard
-M, size in MegaBytes of RAM being tested, i.e. 8192 MB = 8 GB
-s, time of test in seconds, i.e. 3600 = 3600 seconds, 1 hour


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> so you can rub in that your RAM and motherboard are better than mine? :sad-smile
> :laughings


almost forgot.


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> almost forgot.



:buttkick:


----------



## Jpmboy

i'm imbare-assed.


----------



## tw33k

@KedarWolf thanks


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> i'm imbare-assed.


in-bare-assed?


----------



## hamideteru

M11A & 9900K & G.skill F4-4800C18D
4500-17-18-18-30-1T


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> i'm imbare-assed.


Man, do they allow this stuff on the inter-webs. :wheee:


----------



## mouacyk

hamideteru said:


> 4500-17-18-18-30-1T


95.35% efficiency at 4500MHz, nice work! First 4000+ I see at 1T also.


----------



## Jpmboy

CptSpig said:


> Man, do they allow this stuff on the inter-webs. :wheee:


 yeah... some things just can't be "un-seen". :bigeyedsm




hamideteru said:


> 4500-17-18-18-30-1T


nice. Apex XI and... 9900K??


----------



## CptSpig

Jpmboy said:


> yeah... some things just can't be "un-seen". :bigeyedsm


It's like screen burn-in...:headscrat:


----------



## Hydroplane

Returned my DOA 4133c19 Trident kit so I guess I am back in the RAM market now  maybe I should buy the bling ram? or the glowing light ones? lol


----------



## hamideteru

mouacyk said:


> 95.35% efficiency at 4500MHz, nice work! First 4000+ I see at 1T also.


thanks



Jpmboy said:


> nice. Apex XI and... 9900K??


Yes, M11A & 9900K
AIDA64 License not updated...


----------



## JoeRambo

hamideteru said:


> thanks
> 
> 
> Yes, M11A & 9900K
> AIDA64 License not updated...





Could You please do a run with fresh AIDA64 demo? I wonder what latency numbers with current version of Aida64 are, as old one get crazy, i've seen down to sub 30ns with old versions on new platforms.


----------



## BLUuuE

Got myself a 9600k and Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon recently, so I decided to see how high I could push my CJR sticks. Everyone here seems to be using B-die, so it's nice to have some variety.

I got my CJR as 2 separate 8GB sticks and only 1 of them can do 4000MHz stable. The bad one is stuck at 3733/3800MHz, and even at 19-25-25-45 1.50v, it still instantly fails any memtest.

My good stick, however, can do 4000MHz 16-22-22-42 2T.


Spoiler















Testing higher frequencies:



Spoiler


----------



## Nizzen

BLUuuE said:


> Got myself a 9600k and Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon recently, so I decided to see how high I could push my CJR sticks. Everyone here seems to be using B-die, so it's nice to have some variety.
> 
> I got my CJR as 2 separate 8GB sticks and only 1 of them can do 4000MHz stable. The bad one is stuck at 3733/3800MHz, and even at 19-25-25-45 1.50v, it still instantly fails any memtest.
> 
> My good stick, however, can do 4000MHz 16-22-22-42 2T.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Testing higher frequencies:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



CL 16-23 ***? Why not try some more standard, like 17-17-17 or 17-18-18 etc...


----------



## wingman99

BLUuuE said:


> Got myself a 9600k and Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon recently, so I decided to see how high I could push my CJR sticks. Everyone here seems to be using B-die, so it's nice to have some variety.
> 
> I got my CJR as 2 separate 8GB sticks and only 1 of them can do 4000MHz stable. The bad one is stuck at 3733/3800MHz, and even at 19-25-25-45 1.50v, it still instantly fails any memtest.
> 
> My good stick, however, can do 4000MHz 16-22-22-42 2T.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Testing higher frequencies:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


What are the memory sticks rated for?


----------



## davidm71

Just got a copy of Memtest Hcl Pro and no idea how to use it. Anyone know how?

Thanks


----------



## The Pook

my DDR4-2933 shipped  

dunno what I'm going to use it for, but it was cheap so I grabbed it. apparently it was a pricing error and most orders got canceled but I guess I got mine in early enough


----------



## djgar

davidm71 said:


> Just got a copy of Memtest Hcl Pro and no idea how to use it. Anyone know how?
> 
> Thanks


I make a DVD and boot it. I never did the USB flash drive thing, trying to use up my DVD blanks


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Just got a copy of Memtest Hcl Pro and no idea how to use it. Anyone know how?
> 
> Thanks


 unzip the file below and put the Launcher in the MT Pro folder. Double click, set the number of threads (use all) and the ram amount to commit to the test. with a win10 background, set this to 90% of installed ram. click start and enjoy. :thumb:




The Pook said:


> my DDR4-2933 shipped
> 
> dunno what I'm going to use it for, but it was cheap so I grabbed it. apparently it was a pricing error and most orders got canceled but I guess I got mine in early enough


SK Hynix?


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> SK Hynix?



Pretty sure, theres not really much information out on that exact kit. I'm thinking it's Hynix MFR but idk. Doesn't look like CJR going off the timings, but it's is 1.2v so _maybe_?


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> Pretty sure, theres not really much information out on that exact kit. I'm thinking it's Hynix MFR but idk. Doesn't look like CJR going off the timings, but it's is 1.2v so _maybe_?


MFR would be manageable.


----------



## BLUuuE

Nizzen said:


> CL 16-23 ***? Why not try some more standard, like 17-17-17 or 17-18-18 etc...


Because it's not B-die.



wingman99 said:


> What are the memory sticks rated for?


3600 19-20-20-40 1.35v


----------



## wingman99

BLUuuE said:


> Because it's not B-die.
> 
> 
> 
> 3600 19-20-20-40 1.35v


Well your not doing to bad at 3800 speed.


----------



## Jpmboy

[email protected], cache 3.2, two 4x8GB (64GB) 3600C16 kits @ 4200c17, vdimm 1.5V, vsa 0.995V, vccio 1.07V, 1 hour GSAT
(and it actually cold boots, resets, and A/C power cycles w/ no hiccups!)


----------



## hamideteru

JoeRambo said:


> Could You please do a run with fresh AIDA64 demo? I wonder what latency numbers with current version of Aida64 are, as old one get crazy, i've seen down to sub 30ns with old versions on new platforms.


AIDA64 v5.90.4200(BenchDll 4.3.741) → v5.99.4900(BenchDll 4.3.793) Latest edition
Not much change


----------



## KedarWolf

davidm71 said:


> Just got a copy of Memtest Hcl Pro and no idea how to use it. Anyone know how?
> 
> Thanks





kongasdf said:


> Hi,
> 
> Where can I download the MemTest program to run multiple HCI memtest?


https://hcidesign.com/memtest/download.html

I have AutoHotKey scripts i copied from another user, I forget who, and edited them for a 9900k. It'll open 16 instances of HCI MemTest Free or Pro spaced neatly and evenly using 90% of your RAM for 32GB of RAM. For 16GB of RAM try changing 1731 to 751. 

You can run 16 instances for a 9700k too, I don't think it'll allow you to allocate enough memory to run just 8 for 32GB, so 16 will work.

Download and install AutoHotKey from here. https://www.autohotkey.com/

Right click on your Memtest folder and 'New AutoHotKey Script'. Right-click on the script 'Edit Script' add the below, then right-click, 'Run Script'

Or, this passes Virustotal. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper and can put the MemTestHelper program in your MemTestPro folder and just name your memtestpro.exe to memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe or use his downloadable memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe version. i'd rather rename my official MemTestpro 6.1 to use it as it's the latest one and it's paid for, not a hacked illegal version of it or a modified free version os MeMTest Free. 

*Edit: I strongly recommend this way over downloading dodgy MemTest GUI's that do this as it's virus-free and those downloadable GUI's etc. will not pass VirusTotal.com as being virus/ trojan free. 

Or, this passes Virustotal. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper and can put the MemTestHelper program in your MemTestPro folder and just name your memtestpro.exe to memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe or use his downloadable memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe version. I'd rather rename my official MemTestPro 6.1 to use it as it's the latest one and it's paid for, not a hacked illegal version of it or a modified hacked version of MemTest Free. But it doesn't space the instances of MemTest properly on my tests, they all stack on top of each other, so I prefer the AutoHotKey scripts. *

*Edit the script and add the below code for the free version of Memtest.
*



Code:


xpos = 3
ypos = 5
Loop, 16
{
  if (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 18)
  {
    xpos = 4
    ypos += 370
  }

  Run, memtest.exe
  WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
  Send {Enter}
  sleep 100
  WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
  Send 1731{Tab}{Enter}
  WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
  Send {Enter}

   xpos += 222
}

*For the pro version.*



Code:


memory = 1731
rows = 4
columns = 4
hspacing = 0.8
vspacing = 0.8

y = 5
Loop, %rows%
{
  x = 3
  Loop, %columns%
  {
    Sleep 500
    Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
    Sleep 500
    WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 500
    WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
    Sleep 500
    WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
    x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
  }
  y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
}


----------



## xSneak

KedarWolf said:


> https://hcidesign.com/memtest/download.html
> 
> I have AutoHotKey scripts i copied from another user, I forget who, and edited them for a 9900k. It'll open 16 instances of HCI MemTest Free or Pro spaced neatly and evenly using 90% of your RAM for 32GB of RAM. For 16GB of RAM try changing 1731 to 751.
> 
> You can run 16 instances for a 9700k too, I don't think it'll allow you to allocate enough memory to run just 8 for 32GB, so 16 will work.
> 
> Download and install AutoHotKey from here. https://www.autohotkey.com/
> 
> Right click on your Memtest folder and 'New AutoHotKey Script'. Right-click on the script 'Edit Script' add the below, then right-click, 'Run Script'
> 
> Or, this passes Virustotal. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper and can put the MemTestHelper program in your MemTestPro folder and just name your memtestpro.exe to memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe or use his downloadable memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe version. i'd rather rename my official MemTestpro 6.1 to use it as it's the latest one and it's paid for, not a hacked illegal version of it or a modified free version os MeMTest Free.
> 
> *Edit: I strongly recommend this way over downloading dodgy MemTest GUI's that do this as it's virus-free and those downloadable GUI's etc. will not pass VirusTotal.com as being virus/ trojan free.
> 
> Or, this passes Virustotal. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper and can put the MemTestHelper program in your MemTestPro folder and just name your memtestpro.exe to memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe or use his downloadable memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe version. I'd rather rename my official MemTestPro 6.1 to use it as it's the latest one and it's paid for, not a hacked illegal version of it or a modified hacked version of MemTest Free. But it doesn't space the instances of MemTest properly on my tests, they all stack on top of each other, so I prefer the AutoHotKey scripts. *
> 
> *Edit the script and add the below code for the free version of Memtest.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 16
> {
> if (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 18)
> {
> xpos = 4
> ypos += 370
> }
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1731{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> xpos += 222
> }
> 
> *For the pro version.*
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> memory = 1731
> rows = 4
> columns = 4
> hspacing = 0.8
> vspacing = 0.8
> 
> y = 5
> Loop, %rows%
> {
> x = 3
> Loop, %columns%
> {
> Sleep 500
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
> Sleep 500
> WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
> x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
> }
> y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
> }


If you hit the task view button on windows 10 it will spread out all the instances for you.... 



This is what I got so far with my new kit of memory. I was tuning it at 1.49v up until right now (1.50v) where im working on tfaw. This kit obviously is weaker than the g.skill 4800c18 one. Do you guys think this is typical of the vengeance lpx line, or is this a dud kit?
settings trcd-trp to 19 fails by 50% on hci memtest.


----------



## KedarWolf

xSneak said:


> If you hit the task view button on windows 10 it will spread out all the instances for you....
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I got so far with my new kit of memory. I was tuning it at 1.49v up until right now (1.50v) where im working on tfaw. This kit obviously is weaker than the g.skill 4800c18 one. Do you guys think this is typical of the vengeance lpx line, or is this a dud kit?
> settings trcd-trp to 19 fails by 50% on hci memtest.


Can you screenshot a task view though?

You can with Print Screen and Paint, I just checked.

Doesn't work well with stuff like MemTweakIt, Easy Tune and CPU-Z though as some of the Windows are too small.


----------



## GeneO

KedarWolf said:


> https://hcidesign.com/memtest/download.html
> 
> I have AutoHotKey scripts i copied from another user, I forget who, and edited them for a 9900k. It'll open 16 instances of HCI MemTest Free or Pro spaced neatly and evenly using 90% of your RAM for 32GB of RAM. For 16GB of RAM try changing 1731 to 751.
> 
> You can run 16 instances for a 9700k too, I don't think it'll allow you to allocate enough memory to run just 8 for 32GB, so 16 will work.
> 
> Download and install AutoHotKey from here. https://www.autohotkey.com/
> 
> Right click on your Memtest folder and 'New AutoHotKey Script'. Right-click on the script 'Edit Script' add the below, then right-click, 'Run Script'
> 
> Or, this passes Virustotal. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper and can put the MemTestHelper program in your MemTestPro folder and just name your memtestpro.exe to memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe or use his downloadable memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe version. i'd rather rename my official MemTestpro 6.1 to use it as it's the latest one and it's paid for, not a hacked illegal version of it or a modified free version os MeMTest Free.
> 
> *Edit: I strongly recommend this way over downloading dodgy MemTest GUI's that do this as it's virus-free and those downloadable GUI's etc. will not pass VirusTotal.com as being virus/ trojan free.
> 
> Or, this passes Virustotal. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper and can put the MemTestHelper program in your MemTestPro folder and just name your memtestpro.exe to memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe or use his downloadable memtest_6.0_no_nag.exe version. I'd rather rename my official MemTestPro 6.1 to use it as it's the latest one and it's paid for, not a hacked illegal version of it or a modified hacked version of MemTest Free. But it doesn't space the instances of MemTest properly on my tests, they all stack on top of each other, so I prefer the AutoHotKey scripts. *
> 
> *Edit the script and add the below code for the free version of Memtest.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> xpos = 3
> ypos = 5
> Loop, 16
> {
> if (A_Index == 9) || (A_Index == 18)
> {
> xpos = 4
> ypos += 370
> }
> 
> Run, memtest.exe
> WinWaitActive, Welcome`, New MemTest User
> Send {Enter}
> sleep 100
> WinMove, A, , xpos, ypos
> Send 1731{Tab}{Enter}
> WinWaitActive, Message for first-time users
> Send {Enter}
> 
> xpos += 222
> }
> 
> *For the pro version.*
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> memory = 1731
> rows = 4
> columns = 4
> hspacing = 0.8
> vspacing = 0.8
> 
> y = 5
> Loop, %rows%
> {
> x = 3
> Loop, %columns%
> {
> Sleep 500
> Run, memTestPro.exe /nice /t%memory%, , , pid
> Sleep 500
> WinWait, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinActivate, ahk_pid %pid%
> Sleep 500
> WinMove, ahk_pid %pid%, , x, y
> x := x + floor(hspacing*261)
> }
> y := y + floor(vspacing*322)
> }



Here is the one I wrote for the pro version for my 8086 12 thread processor and 32 GB memory (2300 x 12) to set the affinity for each thread to a logical core. You can easily modify it to 16 threads or more or less memory. I also set a delay (4000 ms ) in an attempt to make sure each thread allocates all of its virtual memory before the next starts:



Code:


sl = 4000
size=2300

;
; affmask hyperthread affinity for hexacore processor. Loop over these to populate 12 threads across all logical cores
; xpos and ypos are specific to display resolution. They palce the windows uniformly once all 12 windows are launched
; 

affmask := ["1","2","4","8","10","20","40","80","100","200","400","800"]
xpos :=  [150,425,700,975,1250,1525,150,425,700,975,1250,1525]
ypos :=  [5,5,5,5,5,5,335,335,335,335,335,335]

SetTitleMatchMode, 2

loop % affmask.Length()
{
	aff := affmask[A_Index]
	Run, %comspec% /c start /B  /affinity %aff% memTestPro.exe /t%size% /s2000 /nice, ,Hide ,
	sleep %sl%
}  


WinGet, id, List, ahk_exe memTestPro.exe
Loop, %id%
{
    this_id := id%A_Index%
    WinGet, this_pid, PID, ahk_id %this_id%
    WinMove, ahk_pid %this_pid%,,xpos[A_Index],ypos[A_Index]
}


----------



## Jpmboy

xSneak said:


> If you hit the task view button on windows 10 it will spread out all the instances for you....
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I got so far with my new kit of memory. I was tuning it at 1.49v up until right now (1.50v) where im working on tfaw. This kit obviously is weaker than the g.skill 4800c18 one. Do you guys think this is typical of the vengeance lpx line, or is this a dud kit?
> settings trcd-trp to 19 fails by 50% on hci memtest.


Looks promising!  those sticks and that board should handle tRTP=6, tRRD_S=4 and then tFAW=16 (FAW should be >= 4x tRRD_s)


----------



## KedarWolf

GeneO said:


> Here is the one I wrote for the pro version for my 8086 12 thread processor and 32 GB memory (2300 x 12) to set the affinity for each thread to a logical core. You can easily modify it to 16 threads or more or less memory. I also set a delay (4000 ms ) in an attempt to make sure each thread allocates all of its virtual memory before the next starts:





Code:


affmask := ["1","2","4","8","10","20","40","80","100","200","400","800","1600","3200","6400","12800"]


Is this correct for a 16 thread 9900k?


----------



## KedarWolf

GeneO said:


> Here is the one I wrote for the pro version for my 8086 12 thread processor and 32 GB memory (2300 x 12) to set the affinity for each thread to a logical core. You can easily modify it to 16 threads or more or less memory. I also set a delay (4000 ms ) in an attempt to make sure each thread allocates all of its virtual memory before the next starts:


I figured out how to set the Affinity for 16 threads.
And I tweaked your script so the Memtest windows overlap and just show the Coverage, Errors and Error information to save screen space. :drum:
Need the space for MemTweakIt, CPU-Z and Task Manager to post valid results in this thread. The spacing works on my 3840x1080 monitor but will work on a 2560x1080 or 1080p screen as well. :cheers:

Here's for a 16 thread 9900K/7820X CPU and 32GB of RAM with said spacing. For 16GB change the 1705 to 751. I checked the assigned affinities in task manager and they are correct. 



Code:


sl = 4000
size=1705

;
; affmask hyperthread affinity for hexacore processor. Loop over these to populate 12 threads across all logical cores
; xpos and ypos are specific to display resolution. They place the windows uniformly once all 12 windows are launched
; 

affmask := ["1","2","4","8","10","20","40","80","100","200","400","800","1000","2000","4000","8000"]

xpos :=  [1050,900,750,600,450,300,150,0,1050,900,750,600,450,300,150,0]
ypos :=  [200,200,200,200,200,200,200,200,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5]

SetTitleMatchMode, 2

loop % affmask.Length()
{
        aff := affmask[A_Index]
        Run, %comspec% /c start /B  /affinity %aff% memTestPro.exe /t%size% /s2000 /nice, ,Hide ,
        sleep %sl%
}  


WinGet, id, List, ahk_exe memTestPro.exe
Loop, %id%
{
    this_id := id%A_Index%
    WinGet, this_pid, PID, ahk_id %this_id%
    WinMove, ahk_pid %this_pid%,,xpos[A_Index],ypos[A_Index]
}


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> unzip the file below and put the Launcher in the MT Pro folder. Double click, set the number of threads (use all) and the ram amount to commit to the test. with a win10 background, set this to 90% of installed ram. click start and enjoy. :thumb:



Thanks for sharing that loader. Seems simpler just to run Memtest Pro by itself and let it determine the amount of ram unused and number of threads to use?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Thanks for sharing that loader. Seems simpler just to run Memtest Pro by itself and let it determine the amount of ram unused and number of threads to use?
> 
> Thanks


best to set the thread count and ram. for 16GB use 12288, for 32GB use 28672


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> best to set the thread count and ram. for 16GB use 12288, for 32GB use 28672





Ok so I selected 28672 but it said Memtest will test all available at 26XXX mb. I selected 6 threads but I suppose I should have done 12 considering I have a six core cpu. Stupid question.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Ok so I selected 28672 but it said Memtest will test all available at 26XXX mb. I selected 6 threads but I suppose I should have done 12 considering I have a six core cpu. Stupid question.
> 
> Thanks


ah... if you have 32GB, HCi takes geologic time to run. RamTest is a bit faster, but the only reasonable way to test 32 and 64GB of ram is you use GSAT. You'll be a much happier ram warrior if you use GSAT with that much ram.


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> ah... if you have 32GB, HCi takes geologic time to run. RamTest is a bit faster, but the only reasonable way to test 32 and 64GB of ram is you use GSAT. You'll be a much happier ram warrior if you use GSAT with that much ram.


GSAT thats the Google Ram testing app you run in Linux environment? Will look into it. Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> GSAT thats the Google Ram testing app you run in Linux environment? Will look into it. Thanks


 it's easy: (win10 1809 and higher)

1) enable Windows Linux Environment in Features. restart
2) go to win store and download Ubuntu (free)
3) sudo update
4) sudo apt-get install stressapptest


this is the command for 1 hour 32GB: _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> it's easy: (win10 1809 and higher)
> 
> 1) enable Windows Linux Environment in Features. restart
> 2) go to win store and download Ubuntu (free)
> 3) sudo update
> 4) sudo apt-get install stressapptest
> 
> 
> this is the command for 1 hour 32GB: _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_


Thanks thats a really cool way to test within windows. Had to install the Linux environment from an admin powershell like this:

Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux

because after install Ubuntu via store it didn't work and then I could do a 'sudo apt-get update' and everything else working like it should now.

Thanks


----------



## rv8000

Is there some kind of equalization point for dimm temps where tREFI and tRFC being too tight/loose will typically start to cause problems?


----------



## KedarWolf

davidm71 said:


> Thanks for sharing that loader. Seems simpler just to run Memtest Pro by itself and let it determine the amount of ram unused and number of threads to use?
> 
> Thanks



Unzip these files and put these .exe's in your MemTest Pro folder, run the 32GB for a 9900k for 32GB of RAM, the 16GB one for 16GB of RAM. It actually assigns each of the 16 instances of HCI MemTest Pro to a different logical core of your CPU, so HCI is running once on each core. It uses 90% of your RAM.

Edit: And it spaces them out evenly once they've all loaded just leaving enough room to see the Coverage, Errors count and Error information.


----------



## davidm71

KedarWolf said:


> Unzip these files and put these .exe's in your MemTest Pro folder, run the 32GB for a 9900k for 32GB of RAM, the 16GB one for 16GB of RAM. It actually assigns each of the 16 instances of HCI MemTest Pro to a different logical core of your CPU, so HCI is running once on each core. It uses 90% of your RAM.
> 
> Edit: And it spaces them out evenly once they've all loaded just leaving enough room to see the Coverage, Errors count and Error information.



Thanks already purchased a copy..


----------



## KedarWolf

davidm71 said:


> Thanks already purchased a copy..


That's not MemTest Pro, it's a program that you put in your MemTest Pro folder that runs Memtest the proper way it should be run 16 times for a 9900k.

Edit: See here, it's compiled using this AutoHotKey script.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-892.html#post27932926


----------



## davidm71

Cool. Playing with it now. Thanks.

Edit: Up to what percent do I allow it to test?

100%?


----------



## Hydroplane

My X299 did not want to boot 4000 at 18 or 19 timings, so back to 3800c16 for now. Probably gonna pull two of the sticks from here and move them to Z390 which currently has 0 dimms lol. My hard drive gets here Tuesday and I haven't even bought replacement memory for the Z390 station yet.

I could probably run 3600c14 (or 3733c15?) on here which might be real-world faster, maybe worth a shot.


----------



## GeneO

Jpmboy said:


> it's easy: (win10 1809 and higher)
> 
> 1) enable Windows Linux Environment in Features. restart
> 2) go to win store and download Ubuntu (free)
> 3) sudo update
> 4) sudo apt-get install stressapptest
> 
> 
> this is the command for 1 hour 32GB: _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_


fify 

3) sudo apt update

now its easy


----------



## xSneak

I measured the voltages on my xi gene probelt points using a hioki dt4282 dmm thats within calibration time period. 
Hwmonitor Readings: Vccio 1.264v Vccsa 1.296v Dram 1.504v vcore load 1.279v (This might have been fluctuating from 1.279v to one step higher)
DMM Reading: Vccio 1.2738v Vccsa 1.3034v Dram 1.4995v vcore load 1.2844v

Seems like all the sensors are accurate. The vccio is -10mV off actual reading.


----------



## KedarWolf

davidm71 said:


> Cool. Playing with it now. Thanks.
> 
> Edit: Up to what percent do I allow it to test?
> 
> 100%?


The best way is to run it overnight while you sleep. I let it get to at least 1000%. :h34r-smi


----------



## KedarWolf

davidm71 said:


> Ok so I selected 28672 but it said Memtest will test all available at 26XXX mb. I selected 6 threads but I suppose I should have done 12 considering I have a six core cpu. Stupid question.
> 
> Thanks



David, you have an 8700k?

That MemTestHelper I shared is wrong if you do. You don't want to run 16 threads.

6 core 12 thread I think? Let me know, I'll make a fixed version for you.


----------



## davidm71

KedarWolf said:


> David, you have an 8700k?
> 
> That MemtestHelper I shared is wrong if you do. You don't want to run 16 threads.
> 
> 6 core 12 thread I think? Let me know, I'll make a fixed version for you.


I have three machines. One is a 9900K, the other a 6850K, and a 6700K. 

Must have been testing the 6850K with that gui loader.

So the testing app only tests 16 threads? Will it work on all my cpu's just the same?

Thanks


----------



## maxolina

Hello, perhaps you can help me even if it's DDR3 on my PC:

I've been trying to squeeze more life out of my i7 3770k in games, as I can't afford a whole new setup for a few more months. (Hopefully ryzen3000 doesn't disappoint)
I started by going up to 4.6ghz on the CPU, and after reading about the performance gains of memory OC I tried my hand at it.

I'm running 16GB 4x4GB of DDR3 Corsair 1866c9 (CML8GX3M2A1866C9). 
All online reviews say it's a terrible overclocker but I managed to do this with 1.65v:










My questions are about two specific timings: "REF Cycle Time" and "CAS Write Latency tWCL". 

1. I could go lower on the REF Cycle Time, but I read on forums that even if it is stable, it might lead to data corruption if it's set too low and you won't know it. Is this true? Or can I tighten it further?

2. This ASUS Guide says that "tCWL needs to be set at or +1 over the read CAS value." I am stable at 7 which is obviously loer than 10+1=11. It then says "High performance DIMMs can run CWL equal to or up to 3 clocks below read CAS for benchmarking." I am equal to this, but my kit is far from a high performance DIMM, and it specifies for benchmarking only. Am I risking something here? Should I go up to 11? EDIT: I just noticed that if left on Auto the bios sets it to "8". Should I just leave it at that?

Any help is appreciated, even about other timings or things that you might notice!


----------



## KedarWolf

davidm71 said:


> I have three machines. One is a 9900K, the other a 6850K, and a 6700K.
> 
> Must have been testing the 6850K with that gui loader.
> 
> So the testing app only tests 16 threads? Will it work on all my cpu's just the same?
> 
> Thanks


You need different versions for different cores. I'm making them now. Upload here in a bit.


----------



## gammagoat

Jpmboy said:


> it's easy: (win10 1809 and higher)
> 
> 1) enable Windows Linux Environment in Features. restart
> 2) go to win store and download Ubuntu (free)
> 3) sudo update
> 4) sudo apt-get install stressapptest
> 
> 
> this is the command for 1 hour 32GB: _stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_



Is it necessary to get Ubuntu from the M-store?


----------



## davidm71

KedarWolf said:


> You need different versions for different cores. I'm making them now. Upload here in a bit.



Ok thanks KedarWolf..

Appreciate it.


----------



## KedarWolf

davidm71 said:


> I have three machines. One is a 9900K, the other a 6850K, and a 6700K.
> 
> Must have been testing the 6850K with that gui loader.
> 
> So the testing app only tests 16 threads? Will it work on all my cpu's just the same?
> 
> Thanks


Here's for all your CPU's.


----------



## davidm71

KedarWolf said:


> Here's for all your CPU's.



Thanks. Appreciate it!


----------



## GeneO

KedarWolf said:


> Unzip these files and put these .exe's in your MemTest Pro folder, run the 32GB for a 9900k for 32GB of RAM, the 16GB one for 16GB of RAM. It actually assigns each of the 16 instances of HCI MemTest Pro to a different logical core of your CPU, so HCI is running once on each core. It uses 90% of your RAM.
> 
> Edit: And it spaces them out evenly once they've all loaded just leaving enough room to see the Coverage, Errors count and Error information.


Hey, your welcome


----------



## Jpmboy

gammagoat said:


> Is it necessary to get Ubuntu from the M-store?


 it's free, so why not.
and note the correction to step 3 by GeneO


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> gammagoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it necessary to get Ubuntu from the M-store?
> 
> 
> 
> it's free, so why not.
> and note the correction to step 3 by GeneO
Click to expand...

Dont forget to run this command in an admin powershell:

Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux


----------



## tw33k

you don't need to run powershell to enable it. Use the Turn Windows features on or off under Programs and Features in Control Panel


----------



## davidm71

I looked for that option in the Windows settings GUI and couldnt find it. Powershell command worked well for me though.


----------



## tw33k

it's here


----------



## djgar

davidm71 said:


> I looked for that option in the Windows settings GUI and couldnt find it. Powershell command worked well for me though.


It's at the top left, last entry of three in small text, with the shield icon on its left.


----------



## ssateneth

are these reasonable R/W/C/L scores?


----------



## gammagoat

Jpmboy said:


> it's free, so why not.
> and note the correction to step 3 by GeneO


I guess, while I do run win10 I'd like to stay as far away from M$ as I can. And ya know the whole sign up thing.


Are any of the lite linux versions available?


----------



## Jpmboy

gammagoat said:


> I guess, while I do run win10 I'd like to stay as far away from M$ as I can. And ya know the whole sign up thing.
> 
> 
> Are any of the lite linux versions available?


I think you do not need to sign up to DL Ubuntu


----------



## maxolina

I have a question about the "REF Cycle Time" timing. I read somewhere that if you see it too low it might cause data corruption even if it appears stable in all tests.

Is this true? Or can I safely tweak it down as much as possible?


----------



## jfriend00

maxolina said:


> I have a question about the "REF Cycle Time" timing. I read somewhere that if you see it too low it might cause data corruption even if it appears stable in all tests.
> 
> Is this true? Or can I safely tweak it down as much as possible?


There are two timings related to the refresh cycle which "recharges" the tiny little memory capacitors that hold each bit of RAM value.

*tRFC is the Refresh Cycle Time and is how long it takes to recharge the memory capacitors for each row.* This value needs to be high enough to make sure each capacitor gets enough charge. But, during the recharge time, the row is blocked from access and if the CPU is trying to access that row, it has to wait for the refresh to be done. If the refresh doesn't fully complete enough charge, some tiny capacitors could eventually fall below the threshold value that indicates they're a "1" and they would essentially lose their value and become a "0". This would be dropped bits.

So, a lower tRFC value increases performance, but if it's too low, then you can lose bits of memory over time. It's also likely that the DRAM voltage influences the recharge time (higher DRAM voltage may decrease the required recharge time allowing you to lower tRFC). It's also likely that the DRAM temperature affects the required tRFC value as a higher DRAM temperature can increase the leakage current (which is how these tiny memory capacitors slowly lose their charge and one of the reasons why they need to be recharged in the first place). So, I'd argue that you don't want to lower tRFC right to the very edge of function because if your DRAM sticks get a little hotter than normal (hot day in the summer or unusually RAM heavy application), you don't want them falling over the edge of stability.

*tREFI is how long a row of memory capacitors can wait before they have to be recharged again.* So, tRFC is how long it takes to do a recharge and tREFI is how long until the next recharge cycle after just recharging. tREFI improves performance by making it larger since a longer tREFI causes the tRFC cycle (which blocks CPU access) to be run less often. But, if you make it too large, then some memory capacitors might lose too much charge before the next refresh cycle happens and thus lose their value. Again, a "1" would get dropped and become a "0".

To test for proper refresh, you need a test application that sets a whole bunch of values in memory (mostly "1" values probably) and then some long time later, tests to see if all the values are still set appropriately such that none of the "1" values leaked down to a "0". It appears that PassMark's MemTest86 might have a test that does something like that (it's the one that takes forever to run because it inserts delays while running the tests). *It is unclear if the other popular test programs such as Karhu's RAMTest or HCI MemTest have specific tests for this type of thing.*

So, what I decided to do was to be a bit conservative with both these values. I found the edge of stability under my normal operating conditions for tRFC using my normal testing tools and then I backed off from there to give myself some safety margin. I found that tREFI didn't seem to impact performance as much as tRFC so I didn't try to push tREFI much at all.

*For my Samsung B-die at 4000MHz and 1.45V, I settled on tRFC of 280 and tREFI of 25000 as safe values.* As I said above, it's quite possible that these values are voltage sensitive so if you are running at lower DRAM voltages, you may need a higher tRFC.

If you look back in this thread at timing screenshots, you will see a wide variety of values for tRFC and tREFI. I've shared my recommendations and why - there are obviously many other opinions so you will have to decide what to go with yourself. And, a different type of DRAM (other than Samsung B-die) may require completely different values.


----------



## Hydroplane

I moved two of my 3200c14 sticks from X299 to Z390. Looks like they clock a little better there. I could boot into Linux at 4200 16-16-16-36 and 4267 17-17-17-37 1.5v. Seemed to start needing much more relaxed timings to increase clocks at that point.


----------



## Falkentyne

jfriend00 said:


> There are two timings related to the refresh cycle which "recharges" the tiny little memory capacitors that hold each bit of RAM value.
> 
> *tRFC is the Refresh Cycle Time and is how long it takes to recharge the memory capacitors for each row.* This value needs to be high enough to make sure each capacitor gets enough charge. But, during the recharge time, the row is blocked from access and if the CPU is trying to access that row, it has to wait for the refresh to be done. If the refresh doesn't fully complete enough charge, some tiny capacitors could eventually fall below the threshold value that indicates they're a "1" and they would essentially lose their value and become a "0". This would be dropped bits.
> 
> So, a lower tRFC value increases performance, but if it's too low, then you can lose bits of memory over time. It's also likely that the DRAM voltage influences the recharge time (higher DRAM voltage may decrease the required recharge time allowing you to lower tRFC). It's also likely that the DRAM temperature affects the required tRFC value as a higher DRAM temperature can increase the leakage current (which is how these tiny memory capacitors slowly lose their charge and one of the reasons why they need to be recharged in the first place). So, I'd argue that you don't want to lower tRFC right to the very edge of function because if your DRAM sticks get a little hotter than normal (hot day in the summer or unusually RAM heavy application), you don't want them falling over the edge of stability.
> 
> *tREFI is how often a recharge cycle runs.* So, tRFC is how long it takes to do a recharge and tREFI is how often you run a recharge cycle. tREFI improves performance by making it larger. But, if you make it too large, then some memory capacitors might lose too much charge before the next refresh cycle happens and thus lose their value. Again, a "1" would get dropped and become a "0".
> 
> To test for proper refresh, you need a test application that sets a whole bunch of values in memory (mostly "1" values probably) and then some long time later, tests to see if all the values are still set appropriately such that none of the "1" values leaked down to a "0". It appears that PassMark's MemTest86 might have a test that does something like that (it's the one that takes forever to run because it inserts delays while running the tests). *It is unclear if the other popular test programs such as Karhu's RAMTest or HCI MemTest have specific tests for this type of thing.*
> 
> So, what I decided to do was to be a bit conservative with both these values. I found the edge of stability under my normal operating conditions for tRFC using my normal testing tools and then I backed off from there to give myself some safety margin. I found that tREFI didn't seem to impact performance as much as tRFC so I didn't try to push tREFI much at all.
> 
> *For my Samsung B-die at 4000MHz and 1.45V, I settled on tRFC of 280 and tREFI of 25000 as safe values.* As I said above, it's quite possible that these values are voltage sensitive so if you are running at lower DRAM voltages, you may need a higher tRFC.
> 
> If you look back in this thread at timing screenshots, you will see a wide variety of values for tRFC and tREFI. I've shared my recommendations and why - there are obviously many other opinions so you will have to decide what to go with yourself. And, a different type of DRAM (other than Samsung B-die) may require completely different values.


Your explanation of tRFC is excellent, but your explanation of tREFI is very ambiguous. tREFI is basically how long the RAM can function without being recharged (thus the longer it can go without being recharged by the tRFC period, the better the performance, if stable). 

So think of tRFC is how long the RAM Can spend doing nothing, while trEFI is how long the RAM can spend doing something


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> Your explanation of tRFC is excellent, but your explanation of tREFI is very ambiguous. tREFI is basically how long the RAM can function without being recharged (thus the longer it can go without being recharged by the tRFC period, the better the performance, if stable).
> 
> So think of tRFC is how long the RAM Can spend doing nothing, while trEFI is how long the RAM can spend doing something


actually, "doing nothing" is holding no charge (ground state). Holding a bit (0 or 1) is not the ground state. the refresh rate (tREFI) is simply the length of time between tRFCs that can expire before the threshold defining a non-ground state is lost or dissipated.


----------



## KedarWolf

Ran my kit 8 hours overnight while I slept.


----------



## moorhen2

3200 cl14 at 4133 cl16-17-17-34 1.45v SA 1.15v IO 1.10v HCI 400% so far.


----------



## chibi

moorhen2 said:


> 3200 cl14 at 4133 cl16-17-17-34 1.45v SA 1.15v IO 1.10v HCI 400% so far.



That's a killer board and ram kit, I would expect the 9900K to be able to push 1T at 4133 and those timings.


----------



## moorhen2

chibi said:


> That's a killer board and ram kit, I would expect the 9900K to be able to push 1T at 4133 and those timings.


The IMC on a 9900k would need to be exceptional for 1T @4133 cl16 to be honest.


----------



## chibi

moorhen2 said:


> The IMC on a 9900k would need to be exceptional for 1T @4133 cl16 to be honest.



Ah C16, I misread it as C17 across. Have you compared C17 1T vs C16 2T? Any difference?


----------



## kignt

moorhen2 said:


> 3200 cl14 at 4133 cl16-17-17-34 1.45v SA 1.15v IO 1.10v HCI 400% so far.


Usually see tWRWR_dg: 4. Benchmark transfer speeds might not be as expected


----------



## dante`afk

has anyone been running past 4800 on g.skill ram 24/7 stable? if so, care to post timing config?


----------



## Hydroplane

dante`afk said:


> has anyone been running past 4800 on g.skill ram 24/7 stable? if so, care to post timing config?


I see you have the same mobo and cpu, how are you liking 4500c17? Does not sound like cheap ram lol


----------



## Jpmboy

dante`afk said:


> has anyone been running past 4800 on g.skill ram 24/7 stable? if so, care to post timing config?


4800? why not 5000? 4800 is the new XMP.


----------



## Hydroplane

Z390 Dark/9900K seems to like 4133c16 1.5v for my 3200c14 sticks... looks like the platform can push further than X299 (not surprisingly)


----------



## dante`afk

i had(have) the same 3200 c14 sticks from gskill as you, ran them at 4500 c17 for a while, after some time that wouldnt work and I had to go down to 4400 for whatever reason.

If I had the knowledge/patience to test I'd tweak more, if if.

I bought a 4600 kit and was able to get them 24/7 stable with below settings.





I can boot 4800 but nowhere stable so far, any hints what to tweak?


----------



## KedarWolf

Anyone get a 4x8GB G.Skill Trident kit higher than 4133MHZ on a 9900k and if you did can you share your Timing Configurator and SA, VCCIO and RAM voltages?


----------



## PrimoGhost

Hi.
I need some help...

i bought HCI memtest 6.1 pro version and i try to use RunMemTest pro 4.0 by Dang Wang. But it looks like below. The RMTP is completely disconnected from HCI. It's possible to start the test, share the iteractions/memory but monitoring, test complete actions are not possible.

Windows 10 pro/64

it's seems to be a Framework error, but i don't know why


----------



## moorhen2

PrimoGhost said:


> Hi.
> I need some help...
> 
> i bought HCI memtest 6.1 pro version and i try to use RunMemTest pro 4.0 by Dang Wang. But it looks like below. The RMTP is completely disconnected from HCI. It's possible to start the test, share the iteractions/memory but monitoring, test complete actions are not possible.
> 
> Windows 10 pro/64
> 
> it's seems to be a Framework error, but i don't know why


Only use one or the other, shouldn't run both at the same time.


----------



## PrimoGhost

when i fired up only the HCI memtest it's runs on 5 threads ( my CPU has 12 threads ) and the test takes ages.( CPU utylization is only 44 % ) So, it's need to be done manualy. 

RunMemTestPro should let me to calculate free memory, shared it for 12 threads and runs on background with monitoring view. This is why this app was made for.






Here it works fine


----------



## KedarWolf

PrimoGhost said:


> Hi.
> I need some help...
> 
> i bought HCI memtest 6.1 pro version and i try to use RunMemTest pro 4.0 by Dang Wang. But it looks like below. The RMTP is completely disconnected from HCI. It's possible to start the test, share the iteractions/memory but monitoring, test complete actions are not possible.
> 
> Windows 10 pro/64
> 
> it's seems to be a Framework error, but i don't know why


Run the Dang Wang program through www.virustotal.com to check for viruses/trojans etc.

In the past when I have there were virus detections. 

And I have compiled some AutoHotKey scripts that will run 16GB or 32GB of HCI for 16 thread, 12 thread and 8 thread CPUs in a post here a few days back that are totally virus free, just the actual code needed compiled by the program itself.

You can do a custom search in this thread using my username to find it.


----------



## PrimoGhost

KedarWolf - U're my God. I gonna find it  Thank You for Your attention and time.

EDIT: VirusTotal - clean.

Ok, i've found it. Page 758. But i gonna try to fix DangWang GUI. I could kill for option to stop the test after 1000 %


----------



## Carillo

*Latency*

Hello guys!

Any tip to what i should do to improve my latency ? Ran HCI for 5 hours, 1 error, so not entirely stable.


----------



## jfriend00

Carillo said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> Any tip to what i should do to improve my latency ? Ran HCI for 5 hours, 1 error, so not entirely stable.


There is NO point in working on improving performance until you have it entirely stable. So, fix your stability issue first. For memory overclocking, you need to go from one stable point to another stable point with lots of testing in between to verify stability. You don't improve performance and then try to find stability because you will have no idea which of the last 25 changes you made to improve performance caused your stability issue and you'll have to loosen everything up, prove stability and then start improving performance.

1. Establish Stability with appropriate testing
2. Make a tweak to improve performance
3. Verify that the tweak did actually improve performance (I use AIDA64 memory benchmark)
4. Verify stability with at least a 3-4 hour memory stability test (RAMTest, MemTest86 or HCI MemTest). If not stable, undo recent change and go back to step 1
5. If stable, go back to step 2


----------



## Carillo

jfriend00 said:


> There is NO point in working on improving performance until you have it entirely stable. So, fix your stability issue first. For memory overclocking, you need to go from one stable point to another stable point with lots of testing in between to verify stability. You don't improve performance and then try to find stability because you will have no idea which of the last 25 changes you made to improve performance caused your stability issue and you'll have to loosen everything up, prove stability and then start improving performance.
> 
> 1. Establish Stability with appropriate testing
> 2. Make a tweak to improve performance
> 3. Verify that the tweak did actually improve performance (I use AIDA64 memory benchmark)
> 4. Verify stability with at least a 3-4 hour memory stability test (RAMTest, MemTest86 or HCI MemTest). If not stable, undo recent change and go back to step 1
> 5. If stable, go back to step 2


Thanks for your concern regarding stability testing, but let me worry about that  Thats not really what i'm asking for


----------



## mouacyk

tREFI thru the roof


----------



## Jpmboy

Carillo said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> Any tip to what i should do to improve my latency ? Ran HCI for 5 hours, 1 error, so not entirely stable.


 tRTP to 6? then lower RAS. Did you manually set those RRD_S and RRD_L values at 6?

the thing about hunting latency with pseudo-stable settings is... well that is the proverbial rabbit hole. For a few hours of benchmarking, just lower the primaries and add juice. If you are looking for a lower latency that does not lead to further 24/7 stability issues, ya need to start from a solid base, else how can you tell if the change improved stability or not? (time to an error is not a metric unless we're talking errors in moments vs errors in hours.)


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> tRTP to 6? then lower RAS. Did you manually set those RRD_S and RRD_L values at 6?
> 
> the thing about hunting latency with pseudo-stable settings is... well that is the proverbial rabbit hole. For a few hours of benchmarking, just lower the primaries and add juice. If you are looking for a lower latency that does not lead to further 24/7 stability issues, ya need to start from a solid base, else how can you tell if the change improved stability or not? (time to an error is not a metric unless we're talking errors in moments vs errors in hours.)


Thanks again, i am 100% stable at 17.18.18, just wanted to try straight 17. But 2400% HCI ( 5 hours, is way stable enough for my use) I'm just not that experienced with secondary and third settings on memory. Most of those settings is on auto


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Some screen shots as requested thank you in advance 
No memory applied/ 3200C14/ 3600C16 not necessarily in that order 
VCCIO 1.0v
System agent 0.95000v
PCH 1.01250v
Ran blender bmw and R20 first didn't save those scores didn't have one for 4.4 anyway except for no memory clock applied I'll do a 4.5 again with these settings.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
@4.5 3600 as screen shot and other voltages 8269 opposed to 8247 as the screen shot here with no memory clock and vccio... on auto
Cach adaptive offset +0.150 additional turbo auto 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=265344&d=1555507809

Gains are probably more because of system agent... being applied 
Input 1.92 llc-4 100% optimized..


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Some screen shots as requested thank you in advance
> No memory applied/ 3200C14/ 3600C16 not necessarily in that order
> VCCIO 1.0v
> System agent 0.95000v
> PCH 1.01250v
> Ran blender bmw and R20 first didn't save those scores didn't have one for 4.4 anyway except for no memory clock applied I'll do a 4.5 again with these settings.


3200c14 looks fine.. but no 3600 shown (two 2133 shown)
I forgot that is an 8-slot board. 3600c16 should really be straight forward. just set 1.45Vdimm. no need to raise vsa, but vccio may need a bit of a pop. I'd shoot for 4000c16 or c17, 1.45V, vccio 1.15V, VSA 1.0V or less. Keep an eye on the RTLs, if they start getting out of whack, you may have found the ceiling for the ram kit.
On the R6EO, 4000c16 was a bit erratic with 64GB, but amazingly, 4200c17-17-17 is really solid (and has survived some abuse recently  ).


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
My bad redoing the 4.5 3600C16 now can't believe I forgot to apply frequency :doh:

8253 R20 just doing another bmw..
Dang restarted running bmw I hate this 1704 bios


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yep something off with 3600C16 in there somewhere after restart run a lot lower 8214 guess I'll have to start over :/


----------



## KedarWolf

PrimoGhost said:


> Hi.
> I need some help...
> 
> i bought HCI memtest 6.1 pro version and i try to use RunMemTest pro 4.0 by Dang Wang. But it looks like below. The RMTP is completely disconnected from HCI. It's possible to start the test, share the iteractions/memory but monitoring, test complete actions are not possible.
> 
> Windows 10 pro/64
> 
> it's seems to be a Framework error, but i don't know why



These are AutoHotKey scripts I compiled and made .exe's for and will run HCI MemTest with 16 instances for a 9900k, 7820X or 5960X or any 16 thread CPU, once for each logical core of your 16 thread CPU. Also included are programs for 12 thread and 8 thread CPU's, both 16GB and 32GB versions.

It will assign each instance of HCI to one separate logical core of the CPU.

This can be checked in Task Manager, right-click on each instance of HCI MemTest, Go To Details, right click on each instance of MemTestPro.exe, Set Affinity, and you'll see each instance is a separate CPU core.

On a 3840x1080, 2560x1080 or 1080p monitor they will be spaced evenly once all the instances have loaded just leaving enough room to see the Coverage, Errors count and Error information.

Put the .exe files in your MemTest Pro folder and run the correct one.


----------



## PrimoGhost

It works great !! Thank You  I'll made a few AHK scripts by myself if i need. Now i "know how".


----------



## GeneO

KedarWolf said:


> These are AutoHotKey scripts I compiled and made .exe's for and will run HCI MemTest with 16 instances for a 9900k, 7820X or 5960X or any 16 thread CPU, once for each logical core of your 16 thread CPU. Also included are programs for 12 thread and 8 thread CPU's, both 16GB and 32GB versions.
> 
> It will assign each instance of HCI to one separate logical core of the CPU.
> 
> This can be checked in Task Manager, right-click on each instance of HCI MemTest, Go To Details, right click on each instance of MemTestPro.exe, Set Affinity, and you'll see each instance is a separate CPU core.
> 
> On a 3840x1080, 2560x1080 or 1080p monitor they will be spaced evenly once all the instances have loaded just leaving enough room to see the Coverage, Errors count and Error information.
> 
> Put the .exe files in your MemTest Pro folder and run the correct one.


You are welcome


----------



## KedarWolf

PrimoGhost said:


> It works great !! Thank You  I'll made a few AHK scripts by myself if i need. Now i "know how".


The code for the 16 thread ones.

https://github.com/KedarWolf/HCI-MemTest-Pro-Helper-For-9900K-7820X-5960X

Edit: But to be honest I got the code from a User here on overclock.net and just modified it. It was too good not to share.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Wow forgot how wild auto input voltage gets but 3600 on xmp isn't restarting the machine anymore it's finishing classroom but dang hope 2.0v input is needed lol 
Package about the same regardless :/

I shifted off of manual voltage cripes I believe I'm on auto 1.2v a hair lower than the highest core vid shows,


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
R20 = 8287 best so far at 4.5
Cache 30 on auto voltage max 1.1v :/


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Think I found my thermal limit comfort zone interesting package is about the same as highest core temp now on this chip 4.6 classroom.. R20 was 8444 :/
Kind of miffed why all attempts to manually set timings at c16 failed to work just weird restarts with no bsod :/


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep something off with 3600C16 in there somewhere after restart run a lot lower 8214 guess I'll have to start over :/


 what are you trying to show with R20 and memory? Drop R20 until you know the ram is not causing correctable WHEA. ANd unless you are setting R20 to High Priority in task manager you'll get different values each run based on background service load.

Have you tested the ram settings for 3600 with a test of ram? (R20 is not testing the ram at all, it barely uses any - I can limit windows to 4GB total. 2GB free and R20 works perfectly)


post back with/if you\ want to work on the ram. (this is a DDR4 thread)


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> what are you trying to show with R20 and memory? Drop R20 until you know the ram is not causing correctable WHEA. ANd unless you are setting R20 to High Priority in task manager you'll get different values each run based on background service load.
> 
> Have you tested the ram settings for 3600 with a test of ram? (R20 is not testing the ram at all, it barely uses any - I can limit windows to 4GB total. 2GB free and R20 works perfectly)
> 
> 
> post back with/if you\ want to work on the ram. (this is a DDR4 thread)


Hi,
R20 is just a score 
I've been judging clocks all of them with classroom mainly sometimes bmw first to see if it will pass
But that was what the deal was restarts were happening in classroom even if passed using bmw 
I believe they/ blender are an all around test. no ?

Question being do you see anything different between the last post on xmp and the first without xmp that were really wonky but xmp seems good.
Only obvious is T2 to me instead of T1.


----------



## Hydroplane

Jpmboy said:


> what are you trying to show with R20 and memory? Drop R20 until you know the ram is not causing correctable WHEA. ANd unless you are setting R20 to High Priority in task manager you'll get different values each run based on background service load.
> 
> Have you tested the ram settings for 3600 with a test of ram? (R20 is not testing the ram at all, it barely uses any - I can limit windows to 4GB total. 2GB free and R20 works perfectly)
> 
> 
> post back with/if you\ want to work on the ram. (this is a DDR4 thread)


I bumped my ram from 3200c14 to 4133c16 on z390 and my cinebench score did not change by literally even 1 point lol


----------



## The Pook

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> R20 is just a score
> I've been judging clocks all of them with classroom mainly sometimes bmw first to see if it will pass
> But that was what the deal was restarts were happening in classroom even if passed using bmw
> I believe they/ blender are an all around test. no ?
> 
> Question being do you see anything different between the last post on xmp and the first without xmp that were really wonky but xmp seems good.
> Only obvious is T2 to me instead of T1.




I have no idea what you're asking. You posted 8 screenshots and your first and last one are wildly different. Like 75% of your timings and your speed are different ... so run the faster one?

Don't use CB to compare RAM, it's not a RAM benchmark.


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> R20 = 8287 best so far at 4.5
> Cache 30 on auto voltage max 1.1v :/


Cache on these HCC chips is different than what your 7900X had... 30 is good.

if the 3600c16 you show in this quoted post is stable to GSAT or RamTest, then it's good to go. But honestly, R20 is not really an all-around test. It uses a limited instruction set (certainly no AVX512 and I can't show it actually uses AVX at all -00 I think it is just SSE.2).
Use realbench, or something that actually uses most of the chip's capabilities. The x264 stress test linked below is a good one. run the "-log" batch in th efolder, set it to the number of threads on that CPU (28?) 5 loops and "normal". If it passes 5, 10 or more + a good 1-2 hours of GSAT or hours of RamTest and stability is 90% of the way there. If you want to try to take that 3200 kit to 4000 - very possible - post back with stability testing on that 3600 base we can start from . :thumb:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gpMyj43ZFjSzJ4Nm0xT3pobjA


----------



## wingman99

Hydroplane said:


> I bumped my ram from 3200c14 to 4133c16 on z390 and my cinebench score did not change by literally even 1 point lol


Mostly real world applications like 1080p Gaming and compression also encoding really benefit from memory scaling. Synthetic memory bench-test only test the memory portion of the process and don't show the complete PC performance function. Memory Overclocking What RAM Speed Do You Need? LINK: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ram-speed,5951-4.html


----------



## Jpmboy

settled in on this for the two 4x8GB 3600c16 kits on this R6EO/9900X. Let's see if 1.5V vdimm has any long term problems (it should not IMO)


----------



## encrypted11

Got a pair of KLEVV Essencore Bolt X memory with Hynix CJR ICs. This model is part interchangeable between A/M/C ICs across batches, and come in a single stick. A2 PCB.
They costed me about $100 in total. 

1.41V VDIMM, 1.08 IO 1.13 SA

They don't hit Samsung B timings, but clock reasonably well.


----------



## KedarWolf

What kinda speeds you get in stressapptest on a 9900k with 4x8GB??

I'm thinking the below is pretty good?

Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 158806144.00M in 3599.75s 44115.87MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
Stats: Memory Copy: 158806144.00M at 44118.59MB/s
Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s

Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors

Oh, and I had Twitch open in my browser the entire time. :h34r-smi


----------



## kignt

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> R20 is just a score
> I've been judging clocks all of them with *classroom mainly* sometimes bmw first to see if it will pass
> But that was what the deal was restarts were happening in classroom even if passed using bmw
> I believe they/ blender are an all around test. no ?
> 
> Question being do you see anything different between the last post on xmp and the first without xmp that were really wonky but xmp seems good.
> Only obvious is T2 to me instead of T1.


I've been using that blender benchmark, too. My focus was figuring out cpu freq and vcore. Strangely enough, the classroom scene led me to realize that my gtx 1070's mem clock at 9300 effective was unstable. It would cause black screen or crash at that scene. It became apparent when tried full default gpu clocks, then it would run without issue. 

I did not notice if ddr4 ram with intermittent problems affected the benchmark runs, but it should be best practice to rely on the usual memory error testing methods. 

With my setup, ddr4-4000 c16-17 vs ddr4-4400 c19-20 did not seem to affect the cpu quick benchmark time, if any maybe minimal.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> What kinda speeds you get in stressapptest on a 9900k with 4x8GB??
> 
> I'm thinking the below is pretty good?
> 
> Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
> Stats: Completed: 158806144.00M in 3599.75s 44115.87MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
> Stats: Memory Copy: 158806144.00M at 44118.59MB/s
> Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
> 
> Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors
> 
> Oh, and I had Twitch open in my browser the entire time. :h34r-smi


this is what I get with my 9700K 4x8GB at 3466. (Hynix)
I have not spent time getting this rig to any higher frequencies. It will boot 3600.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Thanks Jp I'll try to use that google file on 3600C16 manually setting timings... since it is the problem later on 

Doubt I'll be able to seeing it's crashing on this new chip when the timings worked fine on 7900x on both boards x299 prime deluxe and now cheaper x299 mark 2 only item different is the 9940x and 1704 bios which I'm stuck on no way to try 1503 or 1401 no bios flash back there was a 1602 bios but it must of been pulled no listing for it on board page.

At 3600C16 only way it works is using xmp profile I'll test this with the google file just for kicks.

Lastly I never said R20 is any means of judging stability it's just a score that I realized that 2133 is nearly as good a score as 3600C16 is 
3600C16 only got 6 points more than 2133 did.

3200C14 got 40 points higher than 2133
That is what got me wondering what the heck was going on with 3600C16 timings 

Then 3600C16 16-16-16-36 started to cause weird restarts using Classroom passed without any memory clock at all and also passed fine using 3200C14 manual timings
But if you guys can't tell by these timings/ secondaries... at manually set 3600C16 is and the last post using 3600C16 xmp profile which is passing Classroom not sure what can be done.

Using xmp profile was just a last ditched effort to see if it would pass or continue to fail like manual timings were doing at 3600

Hope this clears up any confusion.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Oops these are the only two that really need to be compared to see what timings are different 
Good
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=265448&d=1555537212
Bad
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=265430&d=1555530647


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Thanks Jp I'll try to use that google file on 3600C16 manually setting timings... since it is the problem later on
> 
> Doubt I'll be able to seeing it's crashing on this new chip when the timings worked fine on 7900x on both boards x299 prime deluxe and now cheaper x299 mark 2 only item different is the 9940x and 1704 bios which I'm stuck on no way to try 1503 or 1401 no bios flash back there was a 1602 bios but it must of been pulled no listing for it on board page.
> 
> At 3600C16 only way it works is using xmp profile I'll test this with the google file just for kicks.
> 
> Lastly I never said R20 is any means of judging stability it's just a score that I realized that 2133 is nearly as good a score as 3600C16 is
> 3600C16 only got 6 points more than 2133 did.
> 
> 3200C14 got 40 points higher than 2133
> That is what got me wondering what the heck was going on with 3600C16 timings
> 
> Then 3600C16 16-16-16-36 started to cause weird restarts using Classroom passed without any memory clock at all and also passed fine using 3200C14 manual timings
> But if you guys can't tell by these timings/ secondaries... at manually set 3600C16 is and the last post using 3600C16 xmp profile which is passing Classroom not sure what can be done.
> 
> Using xmp profile was just a last ditched effort to see if it would pass or continue to fail like manual timings were doing at 3600
> 
> Hope this clears up any confusion.


the stress test I liked to on my g-drive is an encoding load, again, it uses ram but is not a dedicated ram stressor. use it to tune in on stable cpu settings. Not ram (tho it will fail if the ram is really bad).
for ram stability, it is very easy to use GSAT in windows:
1) enable windows Linux subsystem in Features.
2) download Ubuntu form the windows store, open the Ubuntu console/command window
3) "sudo update"
4) "sudo apt-get install stressaptest"

commands for 32 and 16 GB are:
stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700
stressapptest -W -M 12288 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700

copy-paste in to the window by right-click anywhere below the flashing carrot.
cancel the run with "ctrl-break" if needed (eg, if you see a continuous string of errors)


----------



## Esenel

G.Skill 4x8GB 4133 CL17 kit arrived today.

Upgrading from 2x8GB 3600 CL15.
Combined with an i7-8086k on a Asus Hero X board.

One strange I cannot figure out, is why the kit starts fine with the XMP Profile, but won't post bios on manual mode?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> this is what I get with my 9700K 4x8GB at 3466. (Hynix)
> I have not spent time getting this rig to any higher frequencies. It will boot 3600.


 @Jpmboy can you see your DIMM temps on your G.Skill Royals?

I know a guy has a set that can't and HWInfo says the DIMM's have no temp sensor which I think is strange. 

And can you make a post with EVERY RAM rule you need to follow when setting your RAM timings?

I asked a bit back but you might have missed it, I can't find a definite guide, just bit and pieces everywhere.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy* can you see your DIMM temps on your G.Skill Royals?
> 
> I know a guy has a set that can't and HWInfo says the DIMM's have no temp sensor which I think is strange.
> 
> And can you make a post with EVERY RAM rule you need to follow when setting your RAM timings?
> 
> I asked a bit back but you might have missed it, I can't find a definite guide, just bit and pieces everywhere.


I tore down the Apex X with the royals so I can't do a fresh look, but I think there's a screenshot in this thread. I can maybe set it up again later in the holiday weekend.
I can only list "rules" that I know... and there are not all that many that make any sense to screw with, most of which I have posted here. I'll "round then up" for you bud. :thumb:
One thing is certain, there is no definitive guide because there are several different ICs (hynix, samsung, micron.. etc) which behave differently.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> I tore down the Apex X with the royals so I can't do a fresh look, but I think there's a screenshot in this thread. I can maybe set it up again later in the holiday weekend.
> I can only list "rules" that I know... and there are not all that many that make any sense to screw with, most of which I have posted here. I'll "round then up" for you bud. :thumb:
> One thing is certain, there is no definitive guide because there are several different ICs (hynix, samsung, micron.. etc) which behave differently.


Thanks bro, no rush, when you can. 

Picture with Royals with no temp sensor. 

Oh wait, they're Hynix, weird. :h34r-smi


----------



## xSneak

After watching the buildzoid video on the gene bios, I set my dram vrm switching frequency to 500kHz and turned off bclk spread spectrum. It allowed for me to raise my trefi from 22k to 24k with 1800% coverage in hci. I tried 350Khz w/blck spread spectrum and it failed with around 10 errors by 1100% coverage; using default switching frequency and bclk spread spectrum on, it got to around 750% coverage before it threw 1 error.

Now I'm going to see how 4400mhz compares to 4600mhz on geekbench.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Thanks bro, no rush, when you can.
> 
> Picture with Royals with no temp sensor.
> 
> Oh wait, they're Hynix, weird. :h34r-smi


can you check if the box highlighted below is... checked? :blinksmil




xSneak said:


> After watching the buildzoid video on the gene bios, I set my dram vrm switching frequency to 500kHz and turned off bclk spread spectrum. It allowed for me to raise my trefi from 22k to 24k with 1800% coverage in hci. I tried 350Khz w/blck spread spectrum and it failed with around 10 errors by 1100% coverage; using default switching frequency and bclk spread spectrum on, it got to around 750% coverage before it threw 1 error.
> 
> Now I'm going to see how 4400mhz compares to 4600mhz on geekbench.


disabling bclk spreadspectrum is one of the first things you should do with any OC. (it is really only "helpful" in a server farm environment)


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Thanks bro, no rush, when you can.
> 
> Picture with Royals with no temp sensor.
> 
> Oh wait, they're Hynix, weird. :h34r-smi


 LOL - QDCs make a quick hookup... quick.
The royals I have here are samsung. (the new cpuZ reads the manufacturer now!)
DIMM temps shown in the AID64 osd PANEL. The AID SPD tab says No temp sensor... but there is. IDK, somethin ain't right.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> LOL - QDCs make a quick hookup... quick.
> The royals I have here are samsung. (the new cpuZ reads the manufacturer now!)
> DIMM temps shown in the AID64 osd PANEL. The AID SPD tab says No temp sensor... but there is. IDK, somethin ain't right.


Is the highlighted box checked?
It wasn't so i checked it, restarted but still the same "no sensor"

It doesn't show when he runs the Sensors interface.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Is the highlighted box checked?
> It wasn't so i checked it, restarted but still the same "no sensor"
> 
> It doesn't show when he runs the Sensors interface.


 what "royal" kit is that?
3200c16? (that's a pretty low bin IC)


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> what "royal" kit is that?
> 3200c16? (that's a pretty low bin IC)


https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16q-32gtrs


----------



## encrypted11

That's likely a hynix AFR kit. 
I have an A2 PCB AFR kit, it boots up to 3866 but stability is probably 3466-3600 territory.

There's a stark difference in pricing of Samsung kits vs. Hynix likely a result of the IC prices.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16q-32gtrs


 yeah, as encrypted said, the 3200c16s are hynix... I'd bet they are the same ICs in my cheapo HyperX 4x8GB 3000c15 (which is sk hynix also). I only managed 3466c16 on the Max11E as a 24/7 and 3600c16 boootable but have not spent any time at 3600. On the max11E a 3600c16 sammy kit ran 4000c16 very easily (for comparison). Frankly, 3466c16 with a 5.0 9700K makes for a very quick rig. It bugs me how quick. I have a very large architectural drawing (pdf blueprint) and it opens and displays very fast on that 9700K... only thing here which is quicker at fully rendering the layers is this 9900K at 5.0 with the ram at 4200c17! Must be the no-HT on the 9700K or something.


----------



## encrypted11

Rerun of my el cheapo CJRs at better timings
(Scores are slightly deflated since the turbo ratios are 50,50,49,49,48,48,47,47), PL1/PL2 at 115W with a HTPC cooler without the backplate mounted and 92mm servo at 2700RPM.


----------



## Barefooter

KedarWolf said:


> https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c16q-32gtrs


I have this Royal kit https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16q-32gtrs and it shows dimm temps in HWiNFO for me on my RE6 board.


.


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ pretty certain those are samsung ram ICs


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ pretty certain those are samsung ram ICs


Royal CL16 3600 were going to be Samsung I'm sure, yes.

I thought they were taking about the Royal CL16 3200, hence my original Hynix comment I edited out.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Royal CL16 3600 were going to be Samsung I'm sure, yes.
> 
> I thought they were taking about the Royal CL16 3200, hence my original Hynix comment I edited out.


I have *these*
So... resolved now? the 3200c16 GS trident royals do not have an on-board temp sensor?


----------



## Esenel

3 Errors with GSAT.

I am not sure how to improve stability in this case.
New to the 4000 range.

4133-16-16-16-36-374-2T (4x8GB 4133 CL17 kit)

Rest on auto for the start.

DRAM 1.45V, SA 1.25, IO 1.25V

Lowering the volts pops errors earlier.
Increasing doesn't do any good as well.
Increasing tRFC doesn't change anything.

Tinkering with RTL doesn't boot.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jfriend00

Esenel said:


> 3 Errors with GSAT.
> 
> I am not sure how to improve stability in this case.
> New to the 4000 range.
> 
> 4133-16-16-16-36-374-2T (4x8GB 4133 CL17 kit)
> 
> Rest on auto for the start.
> 
> DRAM 1.45V, SA 1.25, IO 1.25V
> 
> Lowering the volts pops errors earlier.
> Increasing doesn't do any good as well.
> Increasing tRFC doesn't change anything.
> 
> Tinkering with RTL doesn't boot.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


With my Samsung B-die, 4133-15-17-17-37 was the best I could get at 1.50V. I'd suggest trying 4133-16-17-17-37 next.


----------



## rv8000

Esenel said:


> 3 Errors with GSAT.
> 
> I am not sure how to improve stability in this case.
> New to the 4000 range.
> 
> 4133-16-16-16-36-374-2T (4x8GB 4133 CL17 kit)
> 
> Rest on auto for the start.
> 
> DRAM 1.45V, SA 1.25, IO 1.25V
> 
> Lowering the volts pops errors earlier.
> Increasing doesn't do any good as well.
> Increasing tRFC doesn't change anything.
> 
> Tinkering with RTL doesn't boot.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Have you checked for stability at XMP with SA @ 1.25v and IO @ 1.25v? It's hard to tighten primaries or any timings if you are not stable at XMP.


----------



## Jpmboy

Esenel said:


> 3 Errors with GSAT.
> 
> I am not sure how to improve stability in this case.
> New to the 4000 range.
> 
> 4133-16-16-16-36-374-2T (4x8GB 4133 CL17 kit)
> 
> Rest on auto for the start.
> DRAM 1.45V, SA 1.25, IO 1.25V
> Lowering the volts pops errors earlier.
> Increasing doesn't do any good as well.
> Increasing tRFC doesn't change anything.
> Tinkering with RTL doesn't boot.
> Thanks in advance!


 try increasing tRCD and tRP by +1 each.. 16-17-17-44
tRAS >= CAS+tRCD+tRTP


----------



## gammagoat

Jpmboy said:


> try increasing tRCD and tRP by +1 each.. 16-17-17-44
> tRAS >= CAS+tRCD+tRTP


If I have tRAS lower than the sum of CAS+tRCD+tRCD, stable is that ok? Or am I losing performance/stability when trying higher clocks.


----------



## jfriend00

gammagoat said:


> If I have tRAS lower than the sum of CAS+tRCD+tRCD, stable is that ok? Or am I losing performance/stability when trying higher clocks.


Well, I can do [email protected] on my memory that is stable with an 8 hour RAMTest and a two hour MemTest86 and has been rock solid for the last four months of usage so that tRAS rule certainly doesn't seem absolute to me.


----------



## Nizzen

jfriend00 said:


> gammagoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I have tRAS lower than the sum of CAS+tRCD+tRCD, stable is that ok? Or am I losing performance/stability when trying higher clocks.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I can do [email protected] on my memory that is stable with an 8 hour RAMTest and a two hour MemTest86 and has been rock solid for the last four months of usage so that tRAS rule certainly doesn't seem absolute to me.
Click to expand...

Can you run aida64 memorybenchmark, so it's possible to see the effency of you're mem oc? 🙂


----------



## Esenel

It passes optimised XMP.

4133-17-17-17-37-374-2T @ 1.40V, SA 1.25V, IO 1.25V

See attached screen of GSAT.


Because real XMP sets SA/IO over 1.3V (attached as well).


Will test later that day.

Thanks already for the help!


----------



## Jpmboy

jfriend00 said:


> Well, I can do [email protected] on my memory that is stable with an 8 hour RAMTest and a two hour MemTest86 and has been rock solid for the last four months of usage so that tRAS rule certainly doesn't seem absolute to me.


 what is the tRTP value?
The "rule" is a center... +/- 2 is fine. If the timing error is too large the chipset corrects the value, the active value is not reported to the OS. below the tRTP value of 4 is the chipset min, tRAS is within 2 of the timing rule. The system has been stable since launch with these values.

heck... even "world record" settings for SuperPi etc hold to this timing window rule... eg, 4266 c12-11-11-28-1T (tRTP at chipset min of 4)


----------



## Jpmboy

gammagoat said:


> If I have tRAS lower than the sum of CAS+tRCD+tRCD, stable is that ok? Or am I losing performance/stability when trying higher clocks.


*tRTP*+cas+tRCD ~ tRAS


----------



## Jpmboy

Esenel said:


> It passes optimised XMP.
> 4133-17-17-17-37-374-2T @ 1.40V, SA 1.25V, IO 1.25V
> See attached screen of GSAT.
> Because real XMP sets SA/IO over 1.3V (attached as well).
> Will test later that day.
> Thanks already for the help!


 nice!
Yeah, VSA is going to scale with frequency (the XMP for 4800 sets it to 1.425V!). 1.25 (real, measured) is fine, you may begin to experience hangs during post once you set vsa and vccio too low. code 55, 49, 3b are common when the sysyem agent and/or IMC are undervolted for the requested frequency.


----------



## Esenel

Jpmboy said:


> nice!
> Yeah, VSA is going to scale with frequency (the XMP for 4800 sets it to 1.425V!). 1.25 (real, measured) is fine, you may begin to experience hangs during post once you set vsa and vccio too low. code 55, 49, 3b are common when the sysyem agent and/or IMC are undervolted for the requested frequency.


Ah, thanks for the info.

Could further optimise tRFC to 300.

4133-17-17-17-37-300-2T @ 1.40V , SA/IO 1.25V

Not very fast yet.

What are the next most important values to optimise?

Thank you so much!


----------



## Jpmboy

Esenel said:


> Ah, thanks for the info.
> 
> Could further optimise tRFC to 300.
> 
> 4133-17-17-17-37-300-2T @ 1.40V , SA/IO 1.25V
> Not very fast yet.
> What are the next most important values to optimise?
> Thank you so much!


try tRTP to 6, tWR to  cas +1, tFAW to 4x tRRD_sg (or "_s" in bios)
the RAS value is a bit low, so I'll assume the actual value is the entire time it takes to complete the 3 operations that need to occur while that timing window is open (cas, RCD, RTP). try these one at a time... especially the tWR tightening.
DL a copy of the asrock timing configurator or plz show multiple tabs on memtweak (rtls and iols). Also, would be helpful to see the spd tab in cpuZ. 


edit: here's stable settings for 4500. this 4800 royal kit holds a very low RDD_S and low(er) RTLs than both my 4400c19 and 3600c15 b-die ram kits


----------



## PrimoGhost

KedarWolf said:


> The code for the 16 thread ones.
> Edit: But to be honest I got the code from a User here on overclock.net and just modified it. It was too good not to share.


Doesn't matter. iam very grateful that u shared with me such a good one script  U're a really nice guy. I've made few more version with a little more RAM and i going to make a little more aggresive OC. 

This's what i have so far. CODE X it's not so friendly MOBO 4 overcock  But - it's very low binned B die. 3200/14 Trident Z


----------



## encrypted11

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, as encrypted said, the 3200c16s are hynix... I'd bet they are the same ICs in my cheapo HyperX 4x8GB 3000c15 (which is sk hynix also). I only managed 3466c16 on the Max11E as a 24/7 and 3600c16 boootable but have not spent any time at 3600. On the max11E a 3600c16 sammy kit ran 4000c16 very easily (for comparison). Frankly, 3466c16 with a 5.0 9700K makes for a very quick rig. It bugs me how quick. I have a very large architectural drawing (pdf blueprint) and it opens and displays very fast on that 9700K... only thing here which is quicker at fully rendering the layers is this 9900K at 5.0 with the ram at 4200c17! Must be the no-HT on the 9700K or something.


Might be worth looking up for your kit on MSI's memory QVL, it's quite an exhaustive list and pinning down the IC type is a possibility
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MEG-Z390-GODLIKE#support-mem-3

If it's a hynix c beyond ~3466 they'd work only with high CAS. 4000 c19 booting shouldn't require effort if it's a c-die.


----------



## Jpmboy

encrypted11 said:


> Might be worth looking up for your kit on MSI's memory QVL, it's quite an exhaustive list and pinning down the IC type is a possibility
> https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MEG-Z390-GODLIKE#support-mem-3
> 
> If it's a hynix c beyond ~3466 they'd work only with high CAS. 4000 c19 booting shouldn't require effort if it's a c-die.


Nice, I'll "peruse" the msi qvl. +1


----------



## rv8000

Finally got to a decent 24/7 setting @ 4300. I can't say conclusively but it seems like my instability was potentially coming from tREFI being to high, tRFC being too tight and dimm temps probably getting a bit warm in combination.

About 95% efficiency on read and 90+ on write, would love to get latency lower but I'm already 7ns better than XMP @ 3600 c17.

Either way going from my Aorus Master to my Dark, I was able to get 300mhz more, better latency, better bandwidth, all at the same voltages. Worthy trade off I'd say.


----------



## Esenel

Jpmboy said:


> try tRTP to 6, tWR to  cas +1, tFAW to 4x tRRD_sg (or "_s" in bios)
> the RAS value is a bit low, so I'll assume the actual value is the entire time it takes to complete the 3 operations that need to occur while that timing window is open (cas, RCD, RTP). try these one at a time... especially the tWR tightening.
> DL a copy of the asrock timing configurator or plz show multiple tabs on memtweak (rtls and iols). Also, would be helpful to see the spd tab in cpuZ.


As you wish 

Try your values later.


EDIT:
Your values worked. Thanks!

Although I entered in bios for tWR=18 it sets 19.


----------



## jfriend00

Nizzen said:


> Can you run aida64 memorybenchmark, so it's possible to see the effency of you're mem oc? 🙂


My 4000MHz profile is documented here. I can also run it at 4133 and that is documented here. Both posts include AIDA64 memory benchmark screen shots. 

These two profiles are heavily tweaked for secondary and tertiary timings. In fact, the 4133 profile was slower until I finished tweaking tertiary timings. I decided to run with the 4000 MHz profile because it was sooo much easier to get stable than the 4133 MHz profile and the tiny bit of extra speed didn't seem worth it to be on the edge of stability.


----------



## jfriend00

Jpmboy said:


> what is the tRTP value?
> The "rule" is a center... +/- 2 is fine. If the timing error is too large the chipset corrects the value, the active value is not reported to the OS. below the tRTP value of 4 is the chipset min, tRAS is within 2 of the timing rule. The system has been stable since launch with these values.
> 
> heck... even "world record" settings for SuperPi etc hold to this timing window rule... eg, 4266 c12-11-11-28-1T (tRTP at chipset min of 4)


All my timings are shown here. tRTP is 6.


----------



## encrypted11

encrypted11--i78700K @5.2/4.5---F4-4400C19-8GTZSW----4000Mhz-C16-17-17-38-1T----VDIMM (BIOS) 1.4v---IO 1.06 (BIOS)---SA 1.11v (BIOS)---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour

GSAT copy rate wasn't better than the Fatal1ty ITX until the past couple BIOSes I think. Needs abit less SA/IO/VDIMM on the current BIOS.


----------



## NIK1

I have been playing around with a 4000 OC on my 16 gigs of GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR and have it stable at 18 17-17-41 mode 2.Does it look like anything else I can tighten up.It will not boot at 17 TCL or CR1 and my voltages are 1.470v dram 1.26250v IO and 1.28750v SA. For some reason I lost 1000mb or so Read speed and 2000-3000 Copy speed when switching from mode 1 to mode 2 but my write speed stayed close to the same level..Is there anything else I can try.


----------



## The Pook

NIK1 said:


> I have been playing around with a 4000 OC on my 16 gigs of GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR and have it stable at 18 17-17-41 mode 2.Does it look like anything else I can tighten up.It will not boot at 17 TCL or CR1 and my voltages are 1.470v dram 1.26250v IO and 1.28750v SA. For some reason I lost 1000mb or so Read speed and 2000-3000 Copy speed when switching from mode 1 to mode 2 but my write speed stayed close to the same level..Is there anything else I can try.



Lower your VCCIO/SA voltages, they're kinda high for 4000 and pretty much all your secondaries/tertiaries are high for 4000. Tons of screenshots in the thread of people running >4000 with tighter timings in the thread for you to try and copy.

Mine @ 4133 1.485v vDIMM, 1.2 VCCIO/SA:


----------



## Jpmboy

Spent the last two mornings with one of the "young-lings" putting an upgrade to his Apex IX with 5.0 7350K rig together... switched the 9700K/Max11E rig over to air cooling (NH-D15) and loosened ram timings a bit to add a little bullet-proofness to the build.
this Hynix 32gb kit struggles at 3600, is okay at 3466c16, and seems to have a sweetspot at 3466c17 (ore 3200c16). Kid hands over a 2-core with a GTX1060 and gets a 5.0 9700K with a GTX1070Ti. Ran [email protected] on all cores and the GPU overnight, then stuffed the gear into his NZXT case... I'm sure his mom is pissed at me 
pic of the stuff while still on the bench.


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> Kid hands over a 2-core with a GTX1060 and gets a 5.0 9700K with a GTX1070Ti.



Lucky kid! What do I get if I trade you a 9900K?


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> Lucky kid! What do I get if I trade you a 9900K?


you want a young-ling? or two?


----------



## Victor91rus

f4-3600c16d-16gtzsw (01.2019), A1
1.47v


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> you want a young-ling? or two?



absolutely not! but I'll take a free upgrade


----------



## Esenel

Esenel--i78086K @5.1/4.7---F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR----4133Mhz-C17-17-17-37-2T----VDIMM (BIOS) 1.40v---IO 1.25 (BIOS)---SA 1.25v (BIOS)---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour

I was able to "optimise" Tertiary Timings. Somehow.
It didn't improve much.

And I am still far from 40ns latency.
Where to tune next?

Thankful for any help


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> absolutely not! but I'll take a free upgrade


lol - no package deals eh? 


Esenel said:


> Esenel--i78086K @5.1/4.7---F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR----4133Mhz-C17-17-17-37-2T----VDIMM (BIOS) 1.40v---IO 1.25 (BIOS)---SA 1.25v (BIOS)---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour
> 
> I was able to "optimise" Tertiary Timings. Somehow.
> It didn't improve much.
> 
> And I am still far from 40ns latency.
> Where to tune next?
> 
> Thankful for any help


I'd say that's dauum good as is. But you should be able to lower tFAW to 4x tRRD_S, and if you are willing to run 1.45V vdimm, try 16-17-17 (tWR and tCWL back to auto when first trying cas16). Everything else the same.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> lol - no package deals eh?
> 
> I'd say that's dauum good as is. But you should be able to lower tFAW to 4x tRRD_S, and if you are willing to run 1.45V vdimm, try 16-17-17 (tWR and tCWL back to auto when first trying cas16). Everything else the same.


Jpmboy,

Did you do a post with every timing rule we should follow for b-dies and say Z390 boards?

You may have, I might have missed it. I searched both here and Google and only found bits and pieces, nothing complete.


----------



## chrcoluk

guys because my board is crappy daisy chain and not t-topology I had to downclock my samsung B die to 3000mhz as the secondary dimm slots wont go faster than 3000mhz stable.

However I didnt adjust the timings to I am on the same timings, except for tRFC which I did make an adjustment.

So for samsung B die ram that can do 3200mhz 14-14-14-31 at 1.35v what timings would you suggest for 3000mhz to optimise latency.

There seems to be very little info for this as everyone all over the net only seems interested in higher speed tuning typically in 2 dimm configurations. I would love for someone to make a intel memory calculator as well 

If possible also please suggest sub timings as well thanks.


----------



## Carillo

Hello guys. Has anyone been able to post higher frequenzes than 4400 mhz with the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ? Im on a Maximus Gene , and i have tried 5 diffent cpu's. (Both 9600k, 9700k and 9900k). I have tried copying the timings a guy posted here using the 3600 cl16 kit running 4800mhz , stable . I have tried up to 1.45 vccio and SA. I even tried copying buildzoids timings for 4533mhz but not able to post... Is there something im missing? My kit runs 4400 cl17 stable , so i guess they are not the worst binned kit?Is it so far between the IMC's good enough to run over 4400mhz ? In advanced, thanks for all the help in here.


----------



## chrcoluk

here is my timings to assist my question

my TWr seems very high.


----------



## kongasdf

hamideteru said:


> M11A & 9900K & G.skill F4-4800C18D
> 4500-17-18-18-30-1T


Hi,

It will generate more power consumption and heat when using the highest level of Loadline Calibration.

I would suggest that increasing the Vcore and lowering LLC to 5 or 6.

Maybe increase memory stability.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Jpmboy,
> 
> Did you do a post with every timing rule we should follow for b-dies and say Z390 boards?
> 
> You may have, I might have missed it. I searched both here and Google and only found bits and pieces, nothing complete.


 no, not yet. been busy with other things. besides, who follows rules around here? 




Carillo said:


> Hello guys. Has anyone been able to post higher frequenzes than 4400 mhz with the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ? Im on a Maximus Gene , and i have tried 5 diffent cpu's. (Both 9600k, 9700k and 9900k). I have tried copying the timings a guy posted here using the 3600 cl16 kit running 4800mhz , stable . I have tried up to 1.45 vccio and SA. I even tried copying buildzoids timings for 4533mhz but not able to post... Is there something im missing? My kit runs 4400 cl17 stable , so i guess they are not the worst binned kit?Is it so far between the IMC's good enough to run over 4400mhz ? In advanced, thanks for all the help in here.


if I'm not mistaken, that 4800 post was using the* Apex XI* and a 9900K.


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> no, not yet. been busy with other things. besides, who follows rules around here?
> 
> 
> 
> if I'm not mistaken, that 4800 post was using the* Apex XI* and a 9900K.




Here is one


----------



## Jpmboy

Carillo said:


> Here is one


yeah. I remember now. Did the poster ever show an AID64 membench? (on my phone - no way I'm able to scroll back)


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> yeah. I remember now. Did the poster ever show an AID64 membench? (on my phone - no way I'm able to scroll back)


I dont think so, but i cant find the post, its just a saved screenshot i took


----------



## Esenel

Jpmboy said:


> I'd say that's dauum good as is. But you should be able to lower tFAW to 4x tRRD_S, and if you are willing to run 1.45V vdimm, try 16-17-17 (tWR and tCWL back to auto when first trying cas16). Everything else the same.



Many thanks!
I optimised tFAW and tREFI.
Now I can bring honor to XMP.net :-D

Thanks for the great help 

Now slowly understanding the concept, I will test your suggestion with CAS16 first and afterwards with higher frequencies.

But what I still don't get is the influence/concept of RTL and IOL?


----------



## The Pook

Esenel said:


> Many thanks!
> I optimised tFAW and tREFI.
> Now I can bring honor to XMP.net :-D
> 
> Thanks for the great help
> 
> Now slowly understanding the concept, I will test your suggestion with CAS16 first and afterwards with higher frequencies.
> 
> But what I still don't get is the influence/concept of RTL and IOL?



some of your secondaries likely can still be dropped a bit more. Here's mine if you wanna copy some. 










I'm currently playing with BCLK (@ 118 atm) so RAM is at 4139 (1:35) instead of 4133 (1:41.3). Grabbed a G5400 and trying to see what base clock my board can handle so I can get some ez HWBOT points


----------



## centvalny

Carillo said:


> Hello guys. Has anyone been able to post higher frequenzes than 4400 mhz with the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ? Im on a Maximus Gene , and i have tried 5 diffent cpu's. (Both 9600k, 9700k and 9900k). I have tried copying the timings a guy posted here using the 3600 cl16 kit running 4800mhz , stable . I have tried up to 1.45 vccio and SA. I even tried copying buildzoids timings for 4533mhz but not able to post... Is there something im missing? My kit runs 4400 cl17 stable , so i guess they are not the worst binned kit?Is it so far between the IMC's good enough to run over 4400mhz ? In advanced, thanks for all the help in here.


Try enabling trace centering in gene bios


----------



## Carillo

centvalny said:


> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello guys. Has anyone been able to post higher frequenzes than 4400 mhz with the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ? Im on a Maximus Gene , and i have tried 5 diffent cpu's. (Both 9600k, 9700k and 9900k). I have tried copying the timings a guy posted here using the 3600 cl16 kit running 4800mhz , stable . I have tried up to 1.45 vccio and SA. I even tried copying buildzoids timings for 4533mhz but not able to post... Is there something im missing? My kit runs 4400 cl17 stable , so i guess they are not the worst binned kit?Is it so far between the IMC's good enough to run over 4400mhz ? In advanced, thanks for all the help in here.
> 
> 
> 
> Try enabling trace centering in gene bios
Click to expand...

I will ! Thanks. What does trace centering do ?


----------



## NeoandGeo

It does something somewhere between centering the trace, and it affects stability for an unknown reason, as is the case with a lot of the advanced Asus BIOS options. 

I haven't checked in a while, is the advanced training menu still a complete mystery? Last response I got was basically that the developers that implemented it could not give an answer as to what the options did. Hence the descriptions being a repeat of the option name.


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> centvalny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello guys. Has anyone been able to post higher frequenzes than 4400 mhz with the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ? Im on a Maximus Gene , and i have tried 5 diffent cpu's. (Both 9600k, 9700k and 9900k). I have tried copying the timings a guy posted here using the 3600 cl16 kit running 4800mhz , stable . I have tried up to 1.45 vccio and SA. I even tried copying buildzoids timings for 4533mhz but not able to post... Is there something im missing? My kit runs 4400 cl17 stable , so i guess they are not the worst binned kit?Is it so far between the IMC's good enough to run over 4400mhz ? In advanced, thanks for all the help in here.
> 
> 
> 
> Try enabling trace centering in gene bios
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will ! Thanks. What does trace centering do ?
Click to expand...

I can't say how many times i have tried posting beyond 4400mhz , probably 50.times with different settings. I did like you Said and posted 4533mhz cl17 right away! I also tried 4600 cl19, but not able to post. It's clealy not the imc or dimm binning that is causing my issues posting high frequenzies , rather lack of bios knowlege. Thanks. If some of you have more info , please let me know. Thanks!


----------



## moorhen2

Carillo said:


> I can't say how many times i have tried posting beyond 4400mhz , probably 50.times with different settings. I did like you Said and posted 4533mhz cl17 right away! I also tried 4600 cl19, but not able to post. It's clealy not the imc or dimm binning that is causing my issues posting high frequenzies , rather lack of bios knowlege. Thanks. If some of you have more info , please let me know. Thanks!


Your sticks have obviously reached there limit frequency wise, there comes a time when you have to just settle for what you have stability wise. Apart from bragging rights and running a few memory benchmarks, very high ram frequencies don't gain you much in everyday use.


----------



## Carillo

Well, this is where i'm at so far


----------



## Carillo

moorhen2 said:


> Your sticks have obviously reached there limit frequency wise, there comes a time when you have to just settle for what you have stability wise. Apart from bragging rights and running a few memory benchmarks, very high ram frequencies don't gain you much in everyday use.


have they ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Carillo said:


> have they ?


 lol - boosting bclk. You've tried a bunch of cpus, 1 mB... but how many sticks binned?
the screenshots below are not with a 3600c16 kit (I will play with a 3600c15 kit tho). They are with a 4800c18 kit. Both have no problem booting under 1.4V VSa and VCCIO and can do things like post this. Neither will pass GSAT and frankly, I'm not gonna try since VSa and VCCIO are simply too far above safe values to bother. Maybe this 4800c18 kit would do better on a 2 slot z390 board...


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> have they ?
> 
> 
> 
> lol - boosting bclk. You've tried a bunch of cpus, 1 mB... but how many sticks binned?
> the screenshots below are not with a 3600c16 kit (I will play with a 3600c15 kit tho). They are with a 4800c18 kit. Both have no problem booting under 1.4V VSa and VCCIO and can do things like post this. Neither will pass GSAT and frankly, I'm not gonna try since VSa and VCCIO are simply too far above safe values to bother. Maybe this 4800c18 kit would do better on a 2 slot z390 board...
Click to expand...

LOL, yes 100.2 bclk, but they finally booted 4600 cl18 🙂 i have binned two sets of 3600cl15 , and now the 4800cl18 kit is in my shopping cart 😂 i posted 4500 cl17 HCI stable further up here, but with 4500 my write speed is half my read speed. I tried to go from 8 to 4 TWRWR.sg but not able to post that 🤔



L


----------



## Jpmboy

here's 4500c17 on the 3600c15 tridents. The 4800c18 kit is not gonna be much better at this than the 3600c15 kits on z370. Maybe a z390 2-dimm board would be better at showing their differences. The 4800c18 kit does run 4000c12 at 1.8V whereas the 360015 (or c16s) usually need in the 1.9V range.


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> here's 4500c17 on the 3600c15 tridents. The 4800c18 kit is not gonna be much better at this than the 3600c15 kits on z379. Maybe a z390 2-dimm board would be better at showing their differences. The 4800c18 kit does run 4000c12 at 1.8V whereas the 360015 (or c16s) usually need in the 1.9V range.


Yeah , probably not worth it. Nice 4500 settings! I will try them out! Regarding the 1.9-2.05 volt range , is it possible to get anything stable with air cooling that high ? In my case , usually over 1.55v errors starts filling my screen


----------



## Jpmboy

Carillo said:


> Yeah , probably not worth it. Nice 4500 settings! I will try them out! Regarding the 1.9-2.05 volt range , is it possible to get anything stable with air cooling that high ? In my case , usually over 1.55v errors starts filling my screen


If you mean "bench-stable" only, then yes. My ram sticks are only air cooled. Nothing exotic. IMO, the only time cryogenics is useful is if you are testing components for use in orbit.


----------



## BradleyW

Hey everyone,

I'm looking for an attachment I posted on this thread about a month ago. Is there some way I can find my previous attachments?

Thank you.


----------



## Esenel

Esenel--i78086K @5.1/4.7---F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR----4133Mhz-C16-17-17-37-2T----VDIMM (BIOS) 1.45v---IO 1.25 (BIOS)---SA 1.25v (BIOS)---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour




Jpmboy said:


> lol - no package deals eh?
> 
> I'd say that's dauum good as is. But you should be able to lower tFAW to 4x tRRD_S, and if you are willing to run 1.45V vdimm, try 16-17-17 (tWR and tCWL back to auto when first trying cas16). Everything else the same.


Both worked fine 
Thanks!



The Pook said:


> some of your secondaries likely can still be dropped a bit more. Here's mine if you wanna copy some.
> 
> 
> I'm currently playing with BCLK (@ 118 atm) so RAM is at 4139 (1:35) instead of 4133 (1:41.3). Grabbed a G5400 and trying to see what base clock my board can handle so I can get some ez HWBOT points


Will try to lower some Tertiary and the secondary timings after this.

I am still very high in Latency :-(
What is the cause?
Which values affect this the most?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Trying this asus z390i beautiful latency at such speeds and just 14-15-15-34-1T.. havent load him up yet is a 32gb kit too 2x16GB xD

The kit is already binned so i know what hes capable off. Not so much the mobo yet xD.


----------



## Kimir

If I may, it's 2019, you can screenshot using windows snipping tool.
Also, this is very nice (OCSnap_0.9.1).


----------



## Jpmboy

Kimir said:


> If I may, it's 2019, you can screenshot using windows snipping tool.
> Also, this is very nice (OCSnap_0.9.1).


 i know. drop the camera. Like asking the wife to check the engine oil...

:doh:


----------



## zGunBLADEz

lol im in the porch so quick pic 
win prt scrn do the trick but i was on phone XD
Its kind of difficult when you are testing ram and try to browse at the same time 😕


----------



## moorhen2

4400 cl17 on my 3200 cl14 kit. 1.460v, IO 1.237v SA 1.256v.


----------



## Esenel

Esenel--i78086K @5.1/4.7---F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR----4133Mhz-C16-17-17-37-2T----VDIMM (BIOS) 1.45v---IO 1.25 (BIOS)---SA 1.25v (BIOS)---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----1 Hour

Able to further improve 
IOL works miracles :-D


----------



## gammagoat

Jpmboy said:


> i know. drop the camera. Like asking the wife to check the engine oil...
> 
> :doh:


She may be dumb, but................


----------



## Carillo

Never buy a 9600k, the latency sucks ass.


----------



## The Pook

Carillo said:


> Never buy a 9600k, the latency sucks ass.



well ... yeah... you did the test with a bunch of other stuff open.


----------



## Jpmboy

gammagoat said:


> She may be dumb, but................


... but we'll deal with the oil cleanup? 


Carillo said:


> Never buy a 9600k, the latency sucks ass.


if that board has a "Round trip Latency" setting in the Memory Training Algorithms submenu (or if it has that menu) enable it. the RTLs and IOLs should be lower and the latency will drop.


----------



## Carillo

The Pook said:


> well ... yeah... you did the test with a bunch of other stuff open.


Yeah, its my first test, like EVER, with chrome open. Thanks, i'm such a noob


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> ... but we'll deal with the oil cleanup?
> 
> if that board has a "Round trip Latency" setting in the Memory Training Algorithms submenu (or if it has that menu) enable it. the RTLs and IOLs should be lower and the latency will drop.


Thanks, i will try find it


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> ... but we'll deal with the oil cleanup?
> 
> if that board has a "Round trip Latency" setting in the Memory Training Algorithms submenu (or if it has that menu) enable it. the RTLs and IOLs should be lower and the latency will drop.


Like always, your are the boss. Dropped to 38.5ns  Here with a little extra juice, nice 36.8ns


----------



## Esenel

Carillo said:


> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... but we'll deal with the oil cleanup? /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> 
> if that board has a "Round trip Latency" setting in the Memory Training Algorithms submenu (or if it has that menu) enable it. the RTLs and IOLs should be lower and the latency will drop.
> 
> 
> 
> Like always, your are the boss. Dropped to 38.5ns /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Here with a little extra juice, nice 36.8ns /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Click to expand...

Which voltage did you have to increase to set IOL Offset to 7?


----------



## Carillo

Esenel said:


> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... but we'll deal with the oil cleanup? /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> 
> if that board has a "Round trip Latency" setting in the Memory Training Algorithms submenu (or if it has that menu) enable it. the RTLs and IOLs should be lower and the latency will drop.
> 
> 
> 
> Like always, your are the boss. Dropped to 38.5ns /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Here with a little extra juice, nice 36.8ns /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which voltage did you have to increase to set IOL Offset to 7?
Click to expand...

IOL is set automaticly 😊


----------



## Esenel

Carillo said:


> Esenel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... but we'll deal with the oil cleanup? /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> 
> if that board has a "Round trip Latency" setting in the Memory Training Algorithms submenu (or if it has that menu) enable it. the RTLs and IOLs should be lower and the latency will drop.
> 
> 
> 
> Like always, your are the boss. Dropped to 38.5ns /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Here with a little extra juice, nice 36.8ns /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which voltage did you have to increase to set IOL Offset to 7?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOL is set automaticly 😊
Click to expand...

So you just set "Round Trip Latency" to enabled?

Sorry for the quoteception, but editing on the phone sucks.


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Like always, your are the boss. Dropped to 38.5ns  Here with a little extra juice, nice 36.8ns


Great job!

Love from Norway (Molde)


----------



## Carillo

Esenel said:


> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esenel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... but we'll deal with the oil cleanup? /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> 
> if that board has a "Round trip Latency" setting in the Memory Training Algorithms submenu (or if it has that menu) enable it. the RTLs and IOLs should be lower and the latency will drop.
> 
> 
> 
> Like always, your are the boss. Dropped to 38.5ns /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Here with a little extra juice, nice 36.8ns /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which voltage did you have to increase to set IOL Offset to 7?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOL is set automaticly 😊
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you just set "Round Trip Latency" to enabled?
> 
> Sorry for the quoteception, but editing on the phone sucks.
Click to expand...

Yeah , same here!😂 Yes i just enabled Round Trip Latency like bios-guru jpmboy said 😊


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> Carillo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like always, your are the boss. Dropped to 38.5ns /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Here with a little extra juice, nice 36.8ns /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great job!
> 
> Love from Norway (Molde) /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

Thanks Nizzen 😊


----------



## NIK1

Is "Round trip Latency" Memory Training Algorithm a feature only on Z390 boards.


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Is "Round trip Latency" Memory Training Algorithm a feature only on Z390 boards.


not all z390 or z370 for that matter. Most/many ROG boards have this option.


----------



## Benjiw

Hmmmm, What do people use to confirm stability and where can i grab it? I ran RAMtest and 2 hours and 20 mins in it threw an error, not sure what voltage i need to correct however. What voltages help stabilise what? i.e. VCCIO and System Agent? Which of those 2 helps with your timings or is it just pure VDIMM?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

I use ramtest for quick results and hci for more certain conditions. I tried gsat and i dont care for it as it can pass and fail on hci. You are more certain to pass gsat than 1000% hci or 5000-10000% ramtest.


Thing is ppl are aiming for speed then latency on a dual channel system. Which i dont think you benefit more than from latency itself than high R&Ws. 

Still testing the 32gb kit and im on 38ns latency with only 3500MHz stable so far. The L3 is almost on 9.0ns even xD i dont even have the cpu over 51x xD


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> I use ramtest for quick results and hci for more certain conditions. I tried gsat and i dont care for it as it can pass and fail on hci. *You are more certain to pass gsat than 1000% hci or 5000-10000*% ramtest.
> Thing is ppl are aiming for speed then latency on a dual channel system. Which i dont think you benefit more than from latency itself than high R&Ws.
> Still testing the 32gb kit and im on 38ns latency with only 3500MHz stable so far. The L3 is almost on 9.0ns even xD i dont even have the cpu over 51x xD


this is in most cases not specifically related to the ram settings. More commonly, the gsat pass, HCi fail is cache or IMC voltages.

That said: Update
64GB of 3600c16 (2 kits) still running issue-free at 4200c16 on my Rampage VI Extreme Omega rig. x299 with 24/7 4200c16 ram. (just GSAT stable tho  )


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> this is in most cases not specifically related to the ram settings. More commonly, the gsat pass, HCi fail is cache or IMC voltages.
> 
> That said: Update
> 64GB of 3600c16 (2 kits) still running issue-free at 4200c16 on my Rampage VI Extreme Omega rig. x299 with 24/7 4200c16 ram. (just GSAT stable tho  )


gsat for me is been so random that i just prefer not to use it. One day it can pass the other day not... I use to use hci alone but it takes too long for quick tests.
so finally bought ramtest and thats what im using hci i will only run overnight when im certain and looking for the best stability. To me is the best one out of the bunch but slower.


BTW, i kind of hate to see that 50ns kind of wall on the x299  good job none the less. I see a bit lower but is very rare in the stability area.


XD 4000MHz


----------



## Benjiw

zGunBLADEz said:


> I use ramtest for quick results and hci for more certain conditions. I tried gsat and i dont care for it as it can pass and fail on hci. You are more certain to pass gsat than 1000% hci or 5000-10000% ramtest.
> 
> 
> Thing is ppl are aiming for speed then latency on a dual channel system. Which i dont think you benefit more than from latency itself than high R&Ws.
> 
> Still testing the 32gb kit and im on 38ns latency with only 3500MHz stable so far. The L3 is almost on 9.0ns even xD i dont even have the cpu over 51x xD


So i should aim for raw speed and let up on the timings a little? I thought timings help quite a bit?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Benjiw said:


> So i should aim for raw speed and let up on the timings a little? I thought timings help quite a bit?


if you can do both good but when aiming too high MHz wise cpu/mobo/ram have alot to do to achieve good results and it starts to get trickier... 
So i prefer a lower MHz with a tighter latency. If you see i can achieve 40ns with not so much effort on a 3500MHz profile STABLE in my way of testing the kit.

So to me in a dual channel system timings/latency is a must over r&ws the r&ws goes up with the mhz but it gets to a point of course while you are trying to hit that low latency.


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> gsat for me is been so random that i just prefer not to use it. One day it can pass the other day not... I use to use hci alone but it takes too long for quick tests.
> so finally bought ramtest and thats what im using hci i will only run overnight when im certain and looking for the best stability. To me is the best one out of the bunch but slower.
> 
> 
> BTW, i kind of hate to see that 50ns kind of wall on the x299  good job none the less. I see a bit lower but is very rare in the stability area.
> 
> 
> XD 4000MHz


 yeah, with 32GB and 1T I get that too, but 64GB 2T is a different beast.
edit, oh and the latency is quad channel. it's not quite double a dual chanel layout, but ever see octachannel latency?


----------



## Jpmboy

Benjiw said:


> So i should aim for raw speed and let up on the timings a little? I thought timings help quite a bit?


dual channel is all about frequency and latency, it can't do the bandwidth. Be sure to see the cache frequency on any comparison since it greatly influences the AID64 results. Ideally shoot for the highest frequency the gear can manage and then tighten the primaries as much as possible staying within your voltage comfort range. However, increasing frequency and also having to increase CAS timing is pretty linear WRT latency and not "really" overclocking the ram in terms of the efficiency. eg, 3200c14 and 3600c16 are approx the same.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, with 32GB and 1T I get that too, but 64GB 2T is a different beast.
> edit, oh and the latency is quad channel. it's not quite double a dual chanel layout, but ever see octachannel latency?


tell me about it. but take in mind too im working with 16gb stick each not the same as sr kit.

in the x299 they are sr 8gb stick. they probanly fly on this z390-i havent tried yet XD


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> tell me about it. but take in mind too im working with 16gb stick each not the same as sr kit.
> 
> in the x299 they are sr 8gb stick. t*hey probanly fly on this z390-i havent tried yet* XD


 you should. your 8GB kits might enjoy the change... so might you!
no doubt, DR sticks have special "needs" when it comes to signal alignment.


----------



## rv8000

Is there any rhyme or reason to adjusting RTL and I-OL? Basically anything I set manually won't boot


----------



## Jpmboy

rv8000 said:


> Is there any rhyme or reason to adjusting RTL and I-OL? Basically anything I set manually won't boot


 what MB? 390 Dark?


----------



## rv8000

Jpmboy said:


> what MB? 390 Dark?


Yes z390 Dark.

Latest 8hr stable:


----------



## KedarWolf

Deleted, see new and improved BIOS settings POST.


Old ones wouldn't always pass stressapptest or HCI MemTest, new ones on thread work much better! 


More voltage is NOT always better. :h34r-smi


----------



## Jpmboy

rv8000 said:


> Yes z390 Dark.
> 
> Latest 8hr stable:


67/67 is v good for 4300. not worth diving in that rabbit hole. RTL is a timing test at POST that depends heavily on the PCB traces in the MB and sticks. Yu would not see any gain with incrementally lower round trip times. Should be able to do 1T at 16GB and tRFC in the mid-high 300's


----------



## davidm71

Hi,

Was wondering if someone could suggest appropriate overclock frequency timings for this kit: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232379
Its the G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) dual rank 3200mhz cas 14-14-14-34 kit. Believe its Samsung B-die as well. Not sure what to expect from them and how high
they can go considering they are dual rank. Right now they are in a Z390 Master and got them stable at XMP settings + VCCIO 1.16v SA 1.2V and 5.0 ghz manual overclock. 

Guessing they should do 3800mhz.

Will post complete timings in a few minutes and update my posting.

Thank you


----------



## rv8000

Jpmboy said:


> rv8000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes z390 Dark.
> 
> Latest 8hr stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 67/67 is v good for 4300. not worth diving in that rabbit hole. RTL is a timing test at POST that depends heavily on the PCB traces in the MB and sticks. Yu would not see any gain with incrementally lower round trip times. Should be able to do 1T at 16GB and tRFC in the mid-high 300's
Click to expand...

Anything below ~600 on trfc is unstable, anything under 571 won’t boot. Figures it wasn’t really worth messing with it and just kept it at stock. Not sure if this has anything to do with PCB being RGB based for the dimms, seems like a very high tRFC for ddr4 though...

I’ll give 1T a shot but last time I tried it wouldn’t do anything above 3866 at 1T on my AORUS master.


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> Should be able to do 1T at 16GB


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


>



okay... at least at 4000 and lower frequency.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> you should. your 8GB kits might enjoy the change... so might you!
> no doubt, DR sticks have special "needs" when it comes to signal alignment.


making some progress now im throwing the fight on this ones first XD
just boot up 4000 standard timings


----------



## davidm71

Any dual rank overclockers out there? Got some Samsung 3200mhz B-Die I want to overclock and was wondering if anyone be kind enough to share your profiles. The kit is 2x16 gb 14-14-14-34 kit. Found this thread that I am using for guidance where Raja has posted his 3733mhz 2x16gb profile:

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...-Skill-Trident-Z-2x16GB-Samsung-B-Die)/page3&

The original board its from only has two dim slots unlike my 4 slotted T-Top Gigabyte Z390 board but I am hoping if I lax some of the timings I could get it to work.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Any dual rank overclockers out there? Got some Samsung 3200mhz B-Die I want to overclock and was wondering if anyone be kind enough to share your profiles. The kit is 2x16 gb 14-14-14-34 kit. Found this thread that I am using for guidance where Raja has posted his 3733mhz 2x16gb profile:
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...-Skill-Trident-Z-2x16GB-Samsung-B-Die)/page3&
> 
> The original board its from only has two dim slots unlike my 4 slotted T-Top Gigabyte Z390 board but I am hoping if I lax some of the timings I could get it to work.
> 
> Thanks


See the post right above yours?


----------



## Martin778

I've been running this for months already:










To me ASUS boards have pretty much the best memory training routines of all boards, EVGA has perfect build quality but I doubt it can touch ASUS's BIOS / SW part.
Only bad thing regarding memory on the M11A is the massive lack of cooling, the DIMM2 is obstructing all the airflow.


----------



## Jpmboy

Martin778 said:


> I've been running this for months already:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me ASUS boards have pretty much the best memory training routines of all boards, EVGA has perfect build quality but I doubt it can touch ASUS's BIOS / SW part.
> Only bad thing regarding memory on the M11A is the massive lack of cooling, the DIMM2 is obstructing all the airflow.


I put a 50mm gelid fan on the Dimm.2 fan bracket and it keeps the SSDs and ram under a light (and quiet) breeze.


----------



## Martin778

Will have to try that! 

*Also, for people who have 4000MHz+ RAM and use the XMP profile - CHECK YOUR VCCIO / VCCSA VOLTAGES !!!!!*

I can tell you that a G.Skill 4600 C18 kit sets VCCIO and SA to 1.45V that will degrade the IMC badly. Even the lower rated kits were overshooting VCCIO/SA enormously.


----------



## BotSkill

Martin778 said:


> I've been running this for months already:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me ASUS boards have pretty much the best memory training routines of all boards, EVGA has perfect build quality but I doubt it can touch ASUS's BIOS / SW part.
> Only bad thing regarding memory on the M11A is the massive lack of cooling, the DIMM2 is obstructing all the airflow.


Well I have my EVGA Dark set up like this for daily use: 
(CPU voltage is 1.25 set up in bios, and 1.242-1.245 by multimeter)


----------



## Martin778

Your screenie doesn't seem to work?


----------



## BotSkill

Martin778 said:


> Your screenie doesn't seem to work?


It works now ... and I added my Apex X set-up for daily use too. 

1. Asus Maximus 10 Apex 










2. Evga Z390 Dark










M10A i had it for a while now, and is a good board. EVGA is new to me but it behaves verry well. I like them both. 
EVGA Z390 Dark is training verry quick. It boots to windows in about half the time it takes for M10A to get to desktop. I like it a lot, I was expecting to be dificult for me to get used to something else than Asus after the last generations i had mostly Asus motherboards.


----------



## davidm71

*Missed it but somethings missing*



Jpmboy said:


> See the post right above yours?



I must have missed that one. Thanks but wish zGunBladez would post his complete specs.

Got hes at 4040 mhz but have no idea what was the original specs of the ram.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> I must have missed that one. Thanks but wish zGunBladez would post his complete specs.
> 
> Got hes at 4040 mhz but have no idea what was the original specs of the ram.
> 
> Thanks


just ask him with an "@" sign in front of his username. I'm sure he's more than willing to share.


----------



## davidm71

zGunBLADEz said:


> making some progress now im throwing the fight on this ones first XD
> just boot up 4000 standard timings


 @zGunBLADEz

Wondering what kind of memory is that at stock? 

Thanks


----------



## BradleyW

Can someone remind me what the command is to run GSAT for 16GB RAM for 1 HOUR. I already have GSAT and Ubuntu In Windows installed, thank you.

Edit: Never mind, found it.


----------



## Jpmboy

3600c15s at 4500c17 with 1.5V


----------



## EEH89

Can someone tell me how I can run my DDR4 3200Mhz 16-18-18-36 32GB on my X99 STRIX ASUS i7 6900K @ 4.3 Ghz 1.35V cache 36 @ 1.2V WITH:
VCCSA 0.888V (0V offset) and VCCIO 0.95V ?
Passed hci memtest 6.1 1300%, karhu ram test 10,000%, GSAT 4hours, Realbench, gaming without any issue for several hours: battlefield V, overwatch, division 2 ...
I begin to believe VCCSA VCCIO do nothing for RAM stability, VCCIO and VCCSA are a placebo.
Before I was running them at both 1.1V, I said let me back them to absolute stock, even VCCSA is below stock, and everything is working PERFECT even better than before.
The funny thing, that asus on auto wants to increase them to 1.18V and 1.23V VCCSA and VCCIO !!!
Best regards


----------



## davidm71

EEH89 said:


> Can someone tell me how I can run my DDR4 3200Mhz 16-18-18-36 32GB on my X99 STRIX ASUS i7 6900K @ 4.3 Ghz 1.35V cache 36 @ 1.2V WITH:
> VCCSA 0.888V (0V offset) and VCCIO 0.95V ?
> Passed hci memtest 6.1 1300%, karhu ram test 10,000%, GSAT 4hours, Realbench, gaming without any issue for several hours: battlefield V, overwatch, division 2 ...
> I begin to believe VCCSA VCCIO do nothing for RAM stability, VCCIO and VCCSA are a placebo.
> Before I was running them at both 1.1V, I said let me back them to absolute stock, even VCCSA is below stock, and everything is working PERFECT even better than before.
> The funny thing, that asus on auto wants to increase them to 1.18V and 1.23V VCCSA and VCCIO !!!
> Best regards


On my MSI X99A board I had to turn on XMP profile in order to run 3200mhz Cas 14 Quad Channel kit otherwise it wouldn't complete its posting. Had to also dial down the SA to 1.2
and VccIo to 1.1ish (can't remember) as well as the XMP had set SA to 1.37 which was way too high!


----------



## davidm71

Also wanted to also mention on my Z390 Gigabyte Master was able to overclock my 3200mhz GSkill Trident Z 2x16gb 14-14-14-34 to 3733 16-16-16-38 @1.42v. SA at 1.22 + IO at 1.15. So far ten minutes HCL testing no errors but its early I know. 

Anyone think these modules can go higher considering they are dual rank??

Thanks

Heres a photo. Note how lax the sub-timings are:


EDIT: GOT AN ERROR WITH HCL!! What should I do?!


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi, @Jpmboy 
Did your suggestion on 4000C16
1.45Vdimm. no need to raise vsa, 
vccio 1.15V,
VSA 1.0V or less
Not very good fire strike ultra died lol but reg finished very low score 26k yes I know not a stability test


----------



## davidm71

Screw it. Looks like I'm stuck at 3600mhz. Shouldn't have bought dual rank!

I mean I understand its performance is a little better than single rank modules but would have liked to go higher. Oh well.

Guess I'll have to save up for an EVGA Dark!

Thanks.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

davidm71 said:


> @zGunBLADEz
> 
> Wondering what kind of memory is that at stock?
> 
> Thanks


3600 cl17 gskill tridentz rgb
they boot all way up to 42xx dont know at what timings or if cpu/mobo/ram combo is capable yet stable wise

this is what im crunching now


----------



## kignt

double


----------



## kignt

davidm71 said:


> Also wanted to also mention on my Z390 Gigabyte Master was able to overclock my 3200mhz GSkill Trident Z 2x16gb 14-14-14-34 to 3733 16-16-16-38 @1.42v. SA at 1.22 + IO at 1.15. So far ten minutes HCL testing no errors but its early I know.
> 
> Anyone think these modules can go higher considering they are dual rank??
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Heres a photo. Note how lax the sub-timings are:
> 
> 
> EDIT: GOT AN ERROR WITH HCL!! What should I do?!


Tried staggered timings? 16-17-17-xx. Loosened, or auto tertiary? Raise vdimm, vccio, and/or vccsa? Lower uncore/cache? 

This asrock board is daisy chain, not expecting same result as the GB board. Most tertiary's were auto


----------



## davidm71

kignt said:


> davidm71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also wanted to also mention on my Z390 Gigabyte Master was able to overclock my 3200mhz GSkill Trident Z 2x16gb 14-14-14-34 to 3733 16-16-16-38 @1.42v. SA at 1.22 + IO at 1.15. So far ten minutes HCL testing no errors but its early I know.
> 
> Anyone think these modules can go higher considering they are dual rank??
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Heres a photo. Note how lax the sub-timings are:
> 
> 
> EDIT: GOT AN ERROR WITH HCL!! What should I do?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried staggered timings? 16-17-17-xx. Loosened, or auto tertiary? Raise vdimm, vccio, and/or vccsa? Lower uncore/cache? Lower uncore/cache?
> 
> This asrock board is daisy chain, not expecting same result as the GB board. Most tertiary's were auto
Click to expand...

Well kind of hit a brick wall in that randomly 3733 would cause failures in the board posting with laxed timings. Tried 16-16-16-36 and 17-17-17-38. I tried raising my io and Sa volts, tried going up to 1.45v dram volta, and loosening timings. Not sure about what could cause a random post failure. Might try tweaking a few other settings and try again later. Maybe it needed more training volts. Past my comfort zone.

So going to try to go for 15-15-15-35 3600. I think this is doable. 14-14-14-34 at 3600 gave me errors at 1.44v. Anyhow been learning a lot. Ram overclocking is new to me. Been watching billzoids actually hardcore overclocking and learning. Reading reviews and such. 

Next month buying the dark z390 and transfer the ram over and buy a 4x8gb kit for the master. Hopefully.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> @*Jpmboy*
> Did your suggestion on 4000C16
> 1.45Vdimm. no need to raise vsa,
> vccio 1.15V,
> VSA 1.0V or less
> Not very good fire strike ultra died lol but reg finished very low score 26k yes I know not a stability test


 what ram kit?
lol - no reason to run firestrike (of all things) unless yuou know the ram settings actually perform better than what you had. Firestrike? Even superPi 32M would tell you more.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> what ram kit?
> lol - no reason to run firestrike (of all things) unless yuou know the ram settings actually perform better than what you had. Firestrike? Even superPi 32M would tell you more.


Hi,
System spec's buddy 3600C16 b-die x299 rig :/
Just wondering how the timings look because it performs for crap at 4000C16 like you said to try.
Can't run a simple benchmark it isn't going to do squat on anything else linux/....


----------



## The Pook

pretty much all the non-primary timings are pretty loose across the board for 4000, likely why it's performing badly  

if it's not stable there's no sense in trying to improve it, should probably figure out why it's not stable first and fix it. start over at XMP and change *one* thing at a time, run a memory test overnight, and repeat if it passes.


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> System spec's buddy 3600C16 b-die x299 rig :/
> Just wondering how the timings look because it performs for crap at 4000C16 like you said to try.
> Can't run a simple benchmark it isn't going to do squat on anything else linux/....


Again, running a benchmark like firestrike (where system ram only impacts the combined score and physics incrementally) is not a good idea. As Pook said, the 2nd timings are all fdup - i assume that;s from "Auto"?).
Anyway, would have helped to see the CPUZ spd tab just to be sure we know what we are dealing with and go from there. NO combo of ram, cpu and board is simply plug and run at that level OC. And if it is, it is an accident. Worth a try tho.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

well im calling stable this set


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> well im calling stable this set


that's some fast 16GB sticks!


----------



## davidm71

zGunBLADEz said:


> well im calling stable this set


You should be able to do way better than that on your 2 dimms slotted board?!

Maybe your taking it slow. Got my Trident Z 3200 at 3600 15-15-15-37 and think that this is the best
I can do at 1.45v for dram. Wish I went with a 4x8gb setup. Should have studied and done my research
prior purchasing so any one out there with a T-Top Gigabyte board stay away from dual rank!

Anyhow been watching a lot of 'Actually hardcore overclocking' videos and learning a lot.
Not only that got to give an honorable mention to KedarWolf. He knows his stuff too.
Learned a lot by studying his profiles.

Thanks


----------



## ThrashZone

The Pook said:


> pretty much all the non-primary timings are pretty loose across the board for 4000, likely why it's performing badly
> 
> if it's not stable there's no sense in trying to improve it, should probably figure out why it's not stable first and fix it. start over at XMP and change *one* thing at a time, run a memory test overnight, and repeat if it passes.





Jpmboy said:


> Again, running a benchmark like firestrike (where system ram only impacts the combined score and physics incrementally) is not a good idea. As Pook said, the 2nd timings are all fdup - i assume that;s from "Auto"?).
> Anyway, would have helped to see the CPUZ spd tab just to be sure we know what we are dealing with and go from there. NO combo of ram, cpu and board is simply plug and run at that level OC. And if it is, it is an accident. Worth a try tho.


Hi,
Sorry about the missing cpu/ mem image my bad 

Well unless you gentlemen have suggestion in which timings to change to "tighten up" I don't see much point in doing anything 

3600 xmp profile works pretty good as I said a few pages back

Manually setting timings doesn't work anymore on 1704 bios and this 9940x chip
Where as on 1402 and even 1504 or what ever exact numbering bios was and this same x299 mark 2 board and 7900x worked just fine 

Only difference is 1704 bios and 9940x and I'm pretty much concluding this is a bios issue and I'll await a new bios to maybe address ram stability and leave it at that.

I posted some new benchmark subs so it's working okay.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

davidm71 said:


> You should be able to do way better than that on your 2 dimms slotted board?!
> 
> Maybe your taking it slow. Got my Trident Z 3200 at 3600 15-15-15-37 and think that this is the best
> I can do at 1.45v for dram. Wish I went with a 4x8gb setup. Should have studied and done my research
> prior purchasing so any one out there with a T-Top Gigabyte board stay away from dual rank!
> 
> Anyhow been watching a lot of 'Actually hardcore overclocking' videos and learning a lot.
> Not only that got to give an honorable mention to KedarWolf. He knows his stuff too.
> Learned a lot by studying his profiles.
> 
> Thanks



i go slowly in this way i learn the kit..

3900 DR at those timings specially with vccio & vccsa at 1.16mV 

this is what im testing now old stable set @ 3900 timings vs new testing timings.. at this point im aiming for crumbs on that..


The word here "dual rank kit"


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> @Jpmboy
> Did your suggestion on 4000C16
> 1.45Vdimm. no need to raise vsa,
> vccio 1.15V,
> VSA 1.0V or less
> Not very good fire strike ultra died lol but reg finished very low score 26k yes I know not a stability test





ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Sorry about the missing cpu/ mem image my bad
> 
> Well unless you gentlemen have suggestion in which timings to change to "tighten up" I don't see much point in doing anything
> 
> 3600 xmp profile works pretty good as I said a few pages back
> 
> Manually setting timings doesn't work anymore on 1704 bios and this 9940x chip
> Where as on 1402 and even 1504 or what ever exact numbering bios was and this same x299 mark 2 board and 7900x worked just fine
> 
> Only difference is 1704 bios and 9940x and I'm pretty much concluding this is a bios issue and I'll await a new bios to maybe address ram stability and leave it at that.
> 
> I posted some new benchmark subs so it's working okay.


Try tRCD @ 17, tRTP @ 6 and tFAW @ 20 to start. boot and see where your Rlt's and Io's line up...if all looks good test. Oh and leave third timings on auto for now.


----------



## davidm71

zGunBLADEz said:


> i go slowly in this way i learn the kit..
> 
> 3900 DR at those timings specially with vccio & vccsa at 1.16mV
> 
> this is what im testing now old stable set @ 3900 timings vs new testing timings.. at this point im aiming for crumbs on that..
> 
> 
> The word here "dual rank kit"



How is it your tRFC timing is so tight? Mine is at 630 at 3600mhz. The XMP Profile 3200mhz value is 560 and you have 280 ?!


----------



## rv8000

davidm71 said:


> How is it your tRFC timing is so tight? Mine is at 630 at 3600mhz. The XMP Profile 3200mhz value is 560 and you have 280 ?!


I've been curious to figure this out as well. Is your Trident Z kit RGB by any chance? My only theory is that it may be due to a different PCB layout. I've noticed my non RGB B-die from G.skill all had default tRFC timings in the 300 range, while both RGB sets I've used were in the 600s by default.

My 3600 c17 RGB kit will also not post below 571 on tRFC and nothing I've tested below it's XMP value of 631 is really stable or beneficial.

*May also be related to SR vs DR (although both my RGB kits were SR).


----------



## The Pook

I'm at 280 tRFC at 4133. Never tried lower, just stopped at 280.


----------



## davidm71

rv8000 said:


> davidm71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is it your tRFC timing is so tight? Mine is at 630 at 3600mhz. The XMP Profile 3200mhz value is 560 and you have 280 ?!
> 
> 
> 
> I've been curious to figure this out as well. Is your Trident Z kit RGB by any chance? My only theory is that it may be due to a different PCB layout. I've noticed my non RGB B-die from G.skill all had default tRFC timings in the 300 range, while both RGB sets I've used were in the 600s by default.
> 
> My 3600 c17 RGB kit will also not post below 571 on tRFC and nothing I've tested below it's XMP value of 631 is really stable or beneficial.
> 
> *May also be related to SR vs DR (although both my RGB kits were SR).
Click to expand...

Maybe your right that its because they're dual rank as far as reason why tRfc vaules are like double other people or maybe the XMP profiles are intentionally lax to guarantee compatibility. Seems like my Z390 Master has algorithms to lax the xmp profile from 3200 to 3600. Anyhow wish there was a Samsung B-Die rule book somewhere regarding subtimings.

About my particular modules they are Gskill Non-Rgb Trident Z 3200 2x16 14-14-14-34. They make an exact same version i think in RGB style. At 3600 15-15-15-37 they perform only marginally better according to Aida64 benchmarks.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> i go slowly in this way i learn the kit..
> 3900 DR at those timings specially with vccio & vccsa at 1.16mV
> this is what im testing now old stable set @ 3900 timings vs new testing timings.. at this point im aiming for crumbs on that..
> The word here "dual rank kit"


the new timings are gonna drift with cold restarts... look at the misaligned RTLs. try ranging VSA around the current value to fix this.. or post at 25mV higher vdimm and run at the value you currently have. (eg train at a higher voltage). The ti\hing is, with RTLs that far goof (for that kit and board) it certainly can test stable and some boots later fail if these RTLs drift.



CptSpig said:


> Try tRCD @ 17, tRTP @ 6 and tFAW @ 20 to start. *boot and see where your Rlt's and Io's line up*...if all looks good test. Oh and leave third timings on auto for now.


^^ THIS! :thumb:


----------



## kignt

Anybody happen to know how jedec 2133 auto-subs look among various IC types?


----------



## ChaosAD

Jpmboy said:


> the new timings are gonna drift with cold restarts... look at the misaligned RTLs. try ranging VSA around the current value to fix this.. or post at 25mV higher vdimm and run at the value you currently have. (eg train at a higher voltage). The ti\hing is, with RTLs that far goof (for that kit and board) it certainly can test stable and some boots later fail if these RTLs drift.


My RTLs are always misalligned, even at stock clocks with everything auto. No matter what i have tried they always are 2 apart. But never had any issues with cold starts or reboots!


----------



## davidm71

RTLs being misaligned.. Like to know more.. What should they look like.. how do you fix it?


Thanks


----------



## zGunBLADEz

davidm71 said:


> How is it your tRFC timing is so tight? Mine is at 630 at 3600mhz. The XMP Profile 3200mhz value is 560 and you have 280 ?!


idk they work fine VCCSA/VCCIO is at 1.16mV ram @ 1.45mV
i just came out out of P95 set of 1min ffts in place to see if i get whea errors and such 0 problems so far



Jpmboy said:


> the new timings are gonna drift with cold restarts... look at the misaligned RTLs. try ranging VSA around the current value to fix this.. or post at 25mV higher vdimm and run at the value you currently have. (eg train at a higher voltage). The ti\hing is, with RTLs that far goof (for that kit and board) it certainly can test stable and some boots later fail if these RTLs drift.



i have the asus RTL enable
what you recommend to change here?
my time in ryzen show me timings are just that and they dont require x o y math like 1+2=3 this

this is what im crunching right now.. going after those 2 16s @ 3900MHz

i know they dont do 1t past 3550MHz they dont go below 280 at 3900-4000
start up never had an issue if it dont post it will not post lol same on ryzen

in the asus z370-G that i had they gave me a hard time they didnt even boot at xmp lol


btw theres no chan b this is a itx mobo xD


----------



## davidm71

Anyone play with the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen and use the timings on an Intel Platform??

It looks like it reads your current timings and extrapolates appropriate timings for your ram.

Thanks


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> RTLs being misaligned.. Like to know more.. What should they look like.. how do you fix it?
> 
> 
> Thanks


The Rlt's should have the same numbers for each channel. ie, A1, B1, C1 and D1 all have 59, channel A2, B2, C2 and D2 have 11. It will be the same with the Io's. It is best to get these aligned with tuning (voltages and timings) not manual settings.


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> The Rlt's should have the same numbers for each channel. ie, A1, B1, C1 and D1 all have 59, channel A2, B2, C2 and D2 have 11. It will be the same with the Io's. It is best to get these aligned with tuning (voltages and timings) not manual settings.


What determines these 59 ,11 numbers?

thanks


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> How is it your tRFC timing is so tight? Mine is at 630 at 3600mhz. The XMP Profile 3200mhz value is 560 and you have 280 ?!


David, don't use XMP settings! Start with your memory kit's rated CL with everything on auto and boot and test. This will give you a place to start. Go to the OP and look at the spoiler alerts you will find basic information on how the first, second and third timing settings function. This will give you a better understanding of how to OC your memory. :thumb:


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> What determines these 59 ,11 numbers?
> 
> thanks


Well tuned memory with the proper voltages. :wheee:


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> Try tRCD @ 17, tRTP @ 6 and tFAW @ 20 to start. boot and see where your Rlt's and Io's line up...if all looks good test. Oh and leave third timings on auto for now.


Hi,
Thank you for a starting point 
Storms moving in atm but tomorrow I'll be messing around with it 
I guess without xmp first it's the one with the issues
3600C16 xmp profile is for some reason a lot better.

Not sure what line up means but I'll post another asrock.. screen shot after.


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Thank you for a starting point
> Storms moving in atm but tomorrow I'll be messing around with it
> I guess without xmp first it's the one with the issues
> 3600C16 xmp profile is for some reason a lot better.
> 
> Not sure what line up means but I'll post another asrock.. screen shot after.


Look at post 9161 for Rlt and Io info. XMP overclocks a multitude of hardware on your board not good! Start with your memories rated CL and everything on auto to give you a base. Now work on tightening your CL with the rules from the spoiler alter in the OP. Keep going until you are satisfied. :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> Look at post 9161 for Rlt and Io info. XMP overclocks a multitude of hardware on your board not good! Start with your memories rated CL and everything on auto to give you a base. Now work on tightening your CL with the rules from the spoiler alter in the OP. Keep going until you are satisfied. :thumb:


Hi,
Boom buddy I did try 16-17-16-36 
I tried some of mr pook secondaries though which failed to post
Thanks for posting a quad channel asrock image I looked back for you but got distracted :thumb:


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Boom buddy I did try 16-17-16-36
> I tried some of mr pook secondaries though which failed to post
> Thanks for posting a quad channel asrock image I looked back for you but got distracted :thumb:


No worries! Memory overclocking takes a lot of patience and plugging in values from other oc's is a crap shoot. The best way is to start fresh with a clear c'mos and put in your memories rated primary's. Boot and test. Than you can start lowering your primary's and secondary's that effect your primary's. Try what I gave you it may work and save some time. Good luck! :headscrat:


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> No worries! Memory overclocking takes a lot of patience and plugging in values from other oc's is a crap shoot. The best way is to start fresh with a clear c'mos and put in your memories rated primary's. Boot and test. Than you can start lowering your primary's and secondary's that effect your primary's. Try what I gave you it may work and save some time. Good luck! :headscrat:


Hi,
Posted like a big dog :thumb:
See what it's like and for your or anyone's viewing pleasure see if anything tightened up nicely 
For the record I have no idea what CL is


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> idk they work fine VCCSA/VCCIO is at 1.16mV ram @ 1.45mV
> i just came out out of P95 set of 1min ffts in place to see if i get whea errors and such 0 problems so far
> *i have the asus RTL enable
> what you recommend to change here?*
> my time in ryzen show me timings are just that and they dont require x o y math like 1+2=3 this
> this is what im crunching right now.. going after those 2 16s @ 3900MHz
> i know they dont do 1t past 3550MHz they dont go below 280 at 3900-4000
> start up never had an issue if it dont post it will not post lol same on ryzen
> in the asus z370-G that i had they gave me a hard time they didnt even boot at xmp lol
> btw theres no chan b this is a itx mobo xD


 oh man - my bad. That's what I get looking at this on my ipad... I thought it had 60/67, not 60/61 as it does. Those are perfect! (which I should have they would be, else you would not post 60/67).




ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Posted like a big dog :thumb:
> See what it's like and for your or anyone's viewing pleasure see if anything tightened up nicely
> For the record I have no idea what CL is


lookin good 'zone. finally got that ram off the porch


----------



## Jpmboy

CptSpig;27954218[B said:


> ]The Rlt's should have the same numbers for each channel.[/B] ie, A1, B1, C1 and D1 all have 59, channel A2, B2, C2 and D2 have 11. It will be the same with the Io's. It is best to get these aligned with tuning (voltages and timings) not manual settings.


or spaced according to the effect of trace/path length. So, for example 60/60 on some boards, 60/61 on others. You (we) can tell if a path is different by the stable IOLs. This x299 APEX has one channle that is much faster than the other 3, so I get this with two 2x8GB 3600c15 kits. I can move sticks around, and A1 always runs a little tighter. (great for 1 dram stick benching  )


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Posted like a big dog :thumb:
> See what it's like and for your or anyone's viewing pleasure see if anything tightened up nicely
> For the record I have no idea what CL is


Bravo! Cast Latency. Test and see how stable the OC is with these timings. If so I will give you some more suggestions. :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> Bravo! Cast Latency. Test and see how stable the OC is with these timings. If so I will give you some more suggestions. :thumb:


Hi,
Thanks a little wonkey but I'll lower system agent and see if that helps I'm at 0.950v on it that goes to max 1.0v+-
Thanks again that stuff helped a lot :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Something interesting 
Vccio pulling 1.152v max even if I lower it in bios :/
Should it might need a little more ?


----------



## hamideteru

G.Skill F4-4000C19D-32GTRS

4000-16-17-17-30-2T 1.45v
sa=1.225v io=1.215v

4133-16-18-18-30-2T 1.50v (16-17-17 NG)
sa=1.243v io=1.231v


----------



## davidm71

Just finished optimizing my 3600mhz overclock timings and what I found out was that setting manual secondary 'tighter' timings from using that DDR Calculator app resulted in worse write copy scores in Aida64 benchmark! So basically set my primary timings according to the app slightly modifying tRAS from the suggested value of 30 to 35 because I thought 30 was way too tight and set all the secondary scores to 'Auto' and the write scores went way up! So now I'm on 14-15-15-35 at 1.45v. Set my tRFC to 468 my doing the math calculating ns against frequency though 346 suggested by the app worked as well but if something needs certain ns to complete a task it makes sense to stick with that value. Anyhow really wish there was an Intel DDR memory calculator but this tool is good food for thought for us Intel overclockers.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Well this is where I'm at not terrible benchmarked okay no large gains just baby step higher


----------



## Esenel

@Jpmboy
What is your opinion on RAM OC and let's say the influence/impact of their temps?
Has a OC to be stable at any temp? Or is it at some point impossible/unavoidable that higher temps throw errors?
Do you use active cooling?

I myself see temp issues arising starting at around 42-46°C.

36°C seems to be the best.

Thanks!


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk they work fine VCCSA/VCCIO is at 1.16mV ram @ 1.45mV
> i just came out out of P95 set of 1min ffts in place to see if i get whea errors and such 0 problems so far
> *i have the asus RTL enable
> what you recommend to change here?*
> my time in ryzen show me timings are just that and they dont require x o y math like 1+2=3 this
> this is what im crunching right now.. going after those 2 16s @ 3900MHz
> i know they dont do 1t past 3550MHz they dont go below 280 at 3900-4000
> start up never had an issue if it dont post it will not post lol same on ryzen
> in the asus z370-G that i had they gave me a hard time they didnt even boot at xmp lol
> btw theres no chan b this is a itx mobo xD
> 
> 
> 
> oh man - my bad. That's what I get looking at this on my ipad... I thought it had 60/67, not 60/61 as it does. Those are perfect! (which I should have they would be, else you would not post 60/67)
Click to expand...

You did see miss aligned rtls in one of the screens. I do those last... I let the mobo first boot and train to his values when i dirty set quick timings, let mobo decide what to put there and then i fix them later. i find that more tedious to do dirty timings and try to find a sweet rtl/iol at the same time.

The 16s where no go, raised them to 17s upped the trefi to 32767 let them crunching overnight, this morning they were around 16,000% on ramtest and still crunching.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Esenel said:


> @Jpmboy
> What is your opinion on RAM OC and let's say the influence/impact of their temps?
> Has a OC to be stable at any temp? Or is it at some point impossible/unavoidable that higher temps throw errors?
> Do you use active cooling?
> 
> I myself see temp issues arising starting at around 42-46°C.
> 
> 36°C seems to be the best.
> 
> Thanks!


First thing i do turn rgb off that's 5-10c right there in temps depending where is at. Always put a fan while stress testing the modules. I have tested up to 50c no problems. RGB will give you more heat lol i tested this myself


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Well this is where I'm at not terrible benchmarked okay no large gains just baby step higher


Running a benchmark does not mean the memory is stable. Run Gsat, HCI memtest or Ramtest. If all is good I think you can lower some of the secondary timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Well this is where I'm at not terrible benchmarked okay no large gains just baby step higher


what were you running before and have you confirmed stability of those settings?


Esenel said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> What is your opinion on RAM OC and let's say the influence/impact of their temps?
> Has a OC to be stable at any temp? Or is it at some point impossible/unavoidable that higher temps throw errors?
> Do you use active cooling?
> I myself see temp issues arising starting at around 42-46°C.
> 36°C seems to be the best.
> Thanks!


thermal "bit-flips" are very common and increase as the temperature increases. For sammy B-die it seems like 40C is a threshold (from the on-die DTS). But remember, the load on the ram ICs in normal use is orders of magnitude less than when using gsat or ramtest, etc. Failure from thermal causes during stress testing may never show in normal use. So, it is best to try and stay within normal use temps while stress testing - this will take active cooling. I do like to use active cooling 24/7 on ram (and everything else for that matter). The 50 or 60mm gelid fans either laying on the sticks (horizontal board mount like a bench or caselabs case) or where available on the Dimm.2 bracket for asus boards. On Vertical mount boards in a tower case, any fan that can be configured to get a slight breeze over the ram (and board's heatsinks) really helps a lot. 


zGunBLADEz said:


> You did see miss aligned rtls in one of the screens. I do those last... I let the mobo first boot and train to his values when i dirty set quick timings, let mobo decide what to put there and then i fix them later. i find that more tedious to do dirty timings and try to find a sweet rtl/iol at the same time.
> 
> The 16s where no go, raised them to 17s upped the trefi to 32767 let them crunching overnight, this morning they were around 16,000% on ramtest and still crunching.


 lol - okay, NVM. You point is... if the process works, stick with it. :thumb:




hamideteru said:


> G.Skill F4-4000C19D-32GTRS
> 
> 4000-16-17-17-30-2T 1.45v
> sa=1.225v io=1.215v
> 
> 4133-16-18-18-30-2T 1.50v (16-17-17 NG)
> sa=1.243v io=1.231v


nice! the Apex XI :drool:


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> *Running a benchmark does not mean the memory is stable*. Run Gsat, HCI memtest or Ramtest. If all is good I think you can lower some of the secondary timings.


Hi,
I get that but at an early point it's the easiest way to or for me to judge if an improvement is being made by going by existing benchmark scores 

I did download free memtest not sure how long it takes to test all available memory when 32gb is being used ?


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I get that but at an early point it's the easiest way to or for me to judge if an improvement is being made by going by existing benchmark scores
> 
> I did download free memtest not sure how long it takes to test all available memory when 32gb is being used ?


for x299, x170 thru x390 etc use the memory bench in AID64 - that's why you see everyone here use it. Or even SuperPi 32M. Both are much more informative than ANY futuremark graphics benchmark... except maybe very old ones like aquamark, or MK03 thru MK06 which are basically CPU ram-dependent benchmarks


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I'll try aid64 30 day trial I suppose 
I guess this is how you run memtest :/


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I'll try aid64 30 day trial I suppose
> *I guess this is how you run memtest* :/


yeah that will work. But with 32GB it wil ltake forever to reach 1000%. When you have 32 or 64GB of ram installed, use either Ramtest ($) or GSAT (free). On the two rigs here with 64GB installed, GSAT is the only way to go.
it's easy to install - posted how within the last week (?).


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Got an error running 27gb test closed one and running 24gb or 3gb at 8 windows = 24gb being tested 

Do you have a link for gsat free download ?


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
300% okay testing in use 25.1gb with 6.6gb available.
Windows defender wants to scan of course lol 

A friend on tenforums posted this 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...application-test-tiny-bootable-linux-iso.html


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 300% okay testing in use 25.1gb with 6.6gb available.
> Windows defender wants to scan of course lol
> 
> A friend on tenforums posted this
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...application-test-tiny-bootable-linux-iso.html


Yeah, I have a linux USB stick with gsat on it - portable works fine, but the windows linux (ubuntu) subsystem is soo easy to set up and use. Scroll back in this thread for the simple step-wise instructions to enable this feature in windows and then get the ubuntu app from the WStore (no need to register to get it free)


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 300% okay testing in use 25.1gb with 6.6gb available.
> Windows defender wants to scan of course lol /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> A friend on tenforums posted this
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...application-test-tiny-bootable-linux-iso.html


Sweet nice find this need to be tagged on the main post.

Now if it have an auto start up script xD

Yeah yeah prt scrn lol ujum good luck xD


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, I have a linux USB stick with gsat on it - portable works fine, but the windows linux (ubuntu) subsystem is soo easy to set up and use. Scroll back in this thread for the simple step-wise instructions to enable this feature in windows and then get the ubuntu app from the WStore (no need to register to get it free)


Hi,
Yes sir got the instruction on a notepad text doc as most you your suggestion :thumb:
I still have a 1709 build and also 1803 too.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Darn another error at 688% down to 22.1gb and 9.5gb available


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Darn another error at 688% down to 22.1gb and 9.5gb available


Try adding 10mv of dram voltage and test again.


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> Try adding 10mv of dram voltage and test again.


Hi,
Okay on 1.42v in bios now :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I'm going to leave 4gb available this time for win-10.


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> Try adding 10mv of dram voltage and test again.


Hi,
22% quick error


----------



## Zemach

4400 oc 4600cl18 19 19 39 1.45


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi @CptSpig
I was using your ras to ras settings too set them back to auto


----------



## The Pook

Keep an eye on your RAM temps. You're already hitting >50c and adding more voltage is just going to make it worse. If you added voltage and failed faster then you need to cool it better.


----------



## ThrashZone

The Pook said:


> Keep an eye on your RAM temps. You're already hitting >50c and adding more voltage is just going to make it worse. If you added voltage and failed faster then you need to cool it better.


Hi,
Thank you hwinfo is actually showing max dimm voltage at 1.440v bios is set back to 1.42v :/


----------



## moorhen2

Zemach said:


> 4400 oc 4600cl18 19 19 39 1.45


Your IO and SA voltages are very high, do you need such high voltages,?

This is my 3200 kit running at 4400, IO 1.23V, SA 1.25v.


----------



## Zemach

moorhen2 said:


> Your IO and SA voltages are very high, do you need such high voltages,?
> 
> This is my 3200 kit running at 4400, IO 1.23V, SA 1.25v.


The XMP 4800 RAM uses sa auto high as 1.6 and io 1.35. I think sa 1.4 io 1.35 is probably not very dangerous, otherwise he probably won't do Ram XMP 4800 for sale and XMP 4600 Sa auto 1.4 io auto 1.35


----------



## Zemach

moorhen2 said:


> Your IO and SA voltages are very high, do you need such high voltages,?
> 
> This is my 3200 kit running at 4400, IO 1.23V, SA 1.25v.


XMP 4800


----------



## Zemach

moorhen2 said:


> Your IO and SA voltages are very high, do you need such high voltages,?
> 
> This is my 3200 kit running at 4400, IO 1.23V, SA 1.25v.


If sa io is very low, when the CPU is hot, there will be unstable , which my house at daytime is 40 degrees.


----------



## davidm71

moorhen2 said:


> Your IO and SA voltages are very high, do you need such high voltages,?
> 
> This is my 3200 kit running at 4400, IO 1.23V, SA 1.25v.


Nice overclock! I can only go as high as 3600 on my Master with Dual Rank same frequency and timings ram!

Whats your AIDA64 memory benchmark like??


----------



## Zemach

I tried to use Ram 3600 Cl 16 16 16 36 1.35 to keep statistics and heat storage. RAM remains the same. Sa must use up to 1.8v


----------



## gammagoat

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, I have a linux USB stick with gsat on it - portable works fine, but the windows linux (ubuntu) subsystem is soo easy to set up and use. Scroll back in this thread for the simple step-wise instructions to enable this feature in windows and then get the ubuntu app from the WStore (no need to register to get it free)


Registration was needed when I tried.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 22% quick error


what koolance vrm block you are using? this one MVR-100?
i need one for my x299 asrock e4 and im thinking on getting that one... as i refuse to get a monoblock bcuz of the hit on th cpu temps.



wip so far @ 4000 idk if it hit page file im not 100% sure but i will rerun it later together with ram test


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yep mvr-100 
Got it on my x99 too works okay
Does not come with a cold plate though.
And if you get their add on plate neither come with mounting screws !


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep mvr-100
> Got it on my x99 too works okay
> Does not come with a cold plate though.
> And if you get their add on plate neither come with mounting screws !


so which plate do you recommend?


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 22% quick error


Try Dram @ 1.41
SA @ 0.8000
Vccio @ 1.0100

Try putting a fan on your memory.


----------



## Deathscythes

Hello,

I am currently in the process of overclocking my ram on a Rampage VI Extreme Omega and a 7980XE, I managed to get 3800 14-16-14-28 CR1 pass 1000% of HCI at 1.5V (i haven't tried less) and ~1.27V VCCIO (1.23 in bios).
I am told those are very tight timings for such voltage and frequency however there is absolutely no way it will do 4000MHz or at least I fail to achieve it. Note that i have achieved the previously mentioned timings on 2 different kits : Trident Z RGB 4266 CL19 and Trident Z Royal 4400 CL 18. 
So I wonder... What can I do? I am tempted to increase the Vmem but it impacts the CPU and so far i wasn't able to find anything concrete regarding whether or not it was okay to run something higher.
Thank you very much for your help =)

EDIT : the dimms are kept below 40°C


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I'd just make a copper one out of some 1.4-3/16" copper and find some screws for the vrm block.
I got the koolance chrome one and had to cut it and find screws.

Maybe I should ask how to tighten up 3600c16 xmp 
It's at 500% no errors :/
Same settings @CptSpig ??


----------



## Deathscythes

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Thank you hwinfo is actually showing max dimm voltage at 1.440v bios is set back to 1.42v :/


Exact same thing here, 1.48V in bios to run 1.5V effectively


----------



## ThrashZone

Deathscythes said:


> Exact same thing here, 1.48V in bios to run 1.5V effectively


Hi,
Have you confirmed using siv I have not.


----------



## Deathscythes

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Have you confirmed using siv I have not.


I feel bad asking this but what are you referring to by "siv"? must be a noob question ahah


----------



## ThrashZone

Deathscythes said:


> I feel bad asking this but what are you referring to by "siv"? must be a noob question ahah


Hi,
My bad :0
Monitoring software a little more complicated to read though why I don't use it
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/1605-siv.html


----------



## Deathscythes

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> My bad :0
> Monitoring software a little more complicated to read though why I don't use it
> https://www.techspot.com/downloads/1605-siv.html


Ah okay! Well the bios shows the current voltage and it shows 1.5V whereas 1.48V so I guess would see it in siv as well


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am currently in the process of overclocking my ram on a Rampage VI Extreme Omega and a 7980XE, I managed to get 3800 14-16-14-28 CR1 pass 1000% of HCI at 1.5V (i haven't tried less) and ~1.27V VCCIO (1.23 in bios).
> I am told those are very tight timings for such voltage and frequency however there is absolutely no way it will do 4000MHz or at least I fail to achieve it. Note that i have achieved the previously mentioned timings on 2 different kits : Trident Z RGB 4266 CL19 and Trident Z Royal 4400 CL 18.
> So I wonder... What can I do? I am tempted to increase the Vmem but it impacts the CPU and so far i wasn't able to find anything concrete regarding whether or not it was okay to run something higher.
> Thank you very much for your help =)
> 
> EDIT : the dimms are kept below 40°C


The RGB kits are more problematic to OC (at least that's the experience of many users).
Set dram switching frequency to 700, dram phase control to extreme. The ceiling may be the 7980XE. I have been running 4200c17-17-17-38-2T on 64GB (8x8GB 3600c16 sticks) on the R6EO with a 9900X and 1.5V vdimm; two 32gb kits for a while now. AT least with 64GB of ram the switching freq and dram phase settings seem to have helped at 4200, 4000 only used stock for switching freq. W/R/C speeds are 118-123K, 98K, 108K. That _is _a bit high VCCIO for a 7980XE. I have 32GB (two 2x8GB 3600c15 kits) on my R6 APex at 4000c16-17-17-38-1T with a 7980XE and VCCIO is at 1.00V, VSA is at 0.775V. Stability posted in this thread some (long) time ago.


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> Ah okay! Well the bios shows the current voltage and it shows 1.5V whereas 1.48V so I guess would see it in siv as well


 get it directly from Ray.
http://rh-software.com/
It takes a while to learn, but absolutely everything is there... _Everything_.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I'd just make a copper one out of some 1.4-3/16" copper and find some screws for the vrm block.
> I got the koolance chrome one and had to cut it and find screws.



can you point me to the cooper plate and screws. thanks


----------



## ThrashZone

zGunBLADEz said:


> point me to the cooper plate and screws


Hi,
Any decent hardware store for the screws for it just take it in I used a true value hardware store which home depot almost killed most of them
They should also have some copper plate too


----------



## ThrashZone

https://www.truevalue.com/storelocator


----------



## Deathscythes

Jpmboy said:


> The RGB kits are more problematic to OC (at least that's the experience of many users).
> Set dram switching frequency to 700, dram phase control to extreme. The ceiling may be the 7980XE. I have been running 4200c17-17-17-38-2T on 64GB (8x8GB 3600c16 sticks) on the R6EO with a 9900X and 1.5V vdimm; two 32gb kits for a while now. AT least with 64GB of ram the switching freq and dram phase settings seem to have helped at 4200, 4000 only used stock for switching freq. W/R/C speeds are 118-123K, 98K, 108K. That _is _a bit high VCCIO for a 7980XE. I have 32GB (two 2x8GB 3600c15 kits) on my R6 APex at 4000c16-17-17-38-1T with a 7980XE and VCCIO is at 1.00V, VSA is at 0.775V. Stability posted in this thread some (long) time ago.


Lol yeah i was blown away when I heard that. Absolutely sick man. 
I am surprised to see that Vrm switching frequency makes a difference since it's such low power, does the ripple reduction help that much? Or is it something else?
Thanks a lot man, as always =)


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> Lol yeah i was blown away when I heard that. Absolutely sick man.
> I am surprised to see that Vrm switching frequency makes a difference since it's such low power, does the ripple reduction help that much? Or is it something else?
> Thanks a lot man, as always =)


 Yes, it is low power, but the traces reflect that and whether it's ripple or less signal stacking you got me.
Haven't given my 7980XE/R6 Apex a break in a while...


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yep over 1000% 3600c16 xmp 
So tighten up :/


----------



## kingofblog

.


----------



## Zemach

4400 Cl 19 19 19 39 1.4v OC 4600 CL 17 19 19 39 1.5v memtest 3000%+


----------



## moorhen2

Zemach said:


> 4400 Cl 19 19 19 39 1.4v OC 4600 CL 17 19 19 39 1.5v memtest 3000%+


Are you setting the IO and SA voltages manually, or using "auto". 

Your IO of 1.350 and SA of 1.40 are in the RED zone voltage wise, and RED stands for Danger, if you look in the bios you will see the voltages set change colour from Yellow to Purple then Red. Don't want you killing your IMC.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Mine are b-dies rgb i guess i got the good batch bcuz they do good for been dr 16gb sticks. Even in ryzen i was doing 3433LL on 1700/1800x/2700x on $99 mobos like msi artic mortar. Or asus chvi, b350 asus itx or the 470 itx asus. They just perform there 

I recommend turning off wathever the rgb is to any kit while stress testing bcuz that will add more unwanted heat to the modules.


----------



## Zemach

moorhen2 said:


> Are you setting the IO and SA voltages manually, or using "auto".
> 
> Your IO of 1.350 and SA of 1.40 are in the RED zone voltage wise, and RED stands for Danger, if you look in the bios you will see the voltages set change colour from Yellow to Purple then Red. Don't want you killing your IMC.


sa 1.4 io 1.35 Actual rate, so Ram XMP 4800 doesn't have to be sold, because Ram Xmp 4800 sa is up to 1.6, the minimum is 1.55, otherwise it's not stable. And I use this for 1 year on MB maximus x apex and there are no problems later


----------



## ashr

Hi. Could someone take a look at my timings? I ran GSAT for 3 hours and HCI memtest for 10 hours and both passed with 0 errors but when I was rebooting I got a kernel_security_check_failure BSOD. I increased trfc from 300 to 324 after the BSOD but not sure if that was what caused it.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ashr said:


> Hi. Could someone take a look at my timings? I ran GSAT for 3 hours and HCI memtest for 10 hours and both passed with 0 errors but when I was rebooting I got a kernel_security_check_failure BSOD. I increased trfc from 300 to 324 after the BSOD but not sure if that was what caused it.


 what's the sa/io voltage on load? Raise it a notch and see if it happens again.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Had this sinner over night 1300% average no errors


----------



## ThrashZone

zGunBLADEz said:


> what's the sa/io voltage on load? Raise it a notch and see if it happens again.


Hi,
SA max 1.152v vccio looks to be max 1.024v
System agent looks way too high at 1.152v to me.


----------



## ashr

zGunBLADEz said:


> what's the sa/io voltage on load? Raise it a notch and see if it happens again.


On load IO is 1.016 and SA 1.152.


----------



## Jpmboy

Zemach said:


> sa 1.4 io 1.35 Actual rate, so Ram XMP 4800 doesn't have to be sold, because Ram Xmp 4800 sa is up to 1.6, the minimum is 1.55, otherwise it's not stable. And I use this for 1 year on MB maximus x apex and there are no problems later


So you want to recommend folks use 1.6V VSA? really?


ashr said:


> Hi. Could someone take a look at my timings? I ran GSAT for 3 hours and HCI memtest for 10 hours and both passed with 0 errors but when I was rebooting I got a kernel_security_check_failure BSOD. I increased trfc from 300 to 324 after the BSOD but not sure if that was what caused it.


That is most likely a cold boot retraining issue. Giving them a little longer recharge interval (tRFC) can/should help. Looking at the timings panel, is that just ATC misreading the slots or are your sticks in channel A2 B2 and not A1 B1?


----------



## Jpmboy

Here's 4500 on a pair of G.Skill 3200c14 "FlareX" sticks... supposedly optimized for AMD platforms. They run exactly the same settings as a pair of TRident 3600c15s. I initially added them to my 2700X/X470 Taichi rig, but could not spend the time with it to get 32GB stable at 3466c14 on that rig (16GB at 3466c14 was no downhill run either  )


----------



## moorhen2

Zemach said:


> sa 1.4 io 1.35 Actual rate, so Ram XMP 4800 doesn't have to be sold, because Ram Xmp 4800 sa is up to 1.6, the minimum is 1.55, otherwise it's not stable. And I use this for 1 year on MB maximus x apex and there are no problems later


XMP does not set the IO and SA voltages, just the timings and the ram voltage, you are obviously using "Auto" for the IO and SA, which is setting very high voltages for these rails, you wont have that IMC very long I can assure you.


----------



## moorhen2

davidm71 said:


> Nice overclock! I can only go as high as 3600 on my Master with Dual Rank same frequency and timings ram!
> 
> Whats your AIDA64 memory benchmark like??


Thanks.

Aida memory benchmark.


----------



## ashr

Jpmboy said:


> So you want to recommend folks use 1.6V VSA? really?
> 
> That is most likely a cold boot retraining issue. Giving them a little longer recharge interval (tRFC) can/should help. Looking at the timings panel, is that just ATC misreading the slots or are your sticks in channel A2 B2 and not A1 B1?


The BSOD was during the shutdown process. Yes, RAM is in A2 and B2 but aren't those the slots they're supposed to be in?


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Aida memory benchmark.


 post up asrock timing config. those write/copy speeds are off quite a bit. Set tWRWR_dg and tRDRD_dg to 4 and run it again...




ashr said:


> The BSOD was during the shutdown process. Yes, RAM is in A2 and B2 but aren't those the slots they're supposed to be in?


what does the MB manual say? Not A1 B1?


----------



## The Pook

moorhen2 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Aida memory benchmark.



Write/copies are pretty weak for 4200...


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> post up asrock timing config. those write/copy speeds are off quite a bit. Set tWRWR_dg and tRDRD_dg to 4 and run it again...
> 
> 
> 
> what does the MB manual say? Not A1 B1?


As requested.


----------



## moorhen2

The Pook said:


> Write/copies are pretty weak for 4200...


4400 not 4200


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> what's the sa/io voltage on load? Raise it a notch and see if it happens again.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> SA max 1.152v vccio looks to be max 1.024v
> System agent looks way too high at 1.152v to me.
Click to expand...


In x299 dont even dare lol...


ashr said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> what's the sa/io voltage on load? Raise it a notch and see if it happens again.
> 
> 
> 
> On load IO is 1.016 and SA 1.152.
Click to expand...

Try raise it up a notch and what jmp said as well.


----------



## ashr

> what does the MB manual say? Not A1 B1?


Looks like if 2 slots are populated use A2 and B2. Motherboard is AsRock Z370 K6.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

moorhen2 said:


> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> post up asrock timing config. those write/copy speeds are off quite a bit. Set tWRWR_dg and tRDRD_dg to 4 and run it again...
> 
> 
> 
> what does the MB manual say? Not A1 B1?
> 
> 
> 
> As requested.
Click to expand...

Got any improvements on aida?
Those writes and copys are indeed very low


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> As requested.


make the changes I posted above and run AID again. Let's see if that boosts performance.


moorhen2 said:


> 4400 not 4200


lol - that's not helping the case here. 


ashr said:


> Looks like if 2 slots are populated use A2 and B2. Motherboard is AsRock Z370 K6.


Okay thanks. post back with the behavior with a longer charge time (tRFC)


----------



## ashr

> Okay thanks. post back with the behavior with a longer charge time (tRFC)


Do you think the increase from 300 to 324 would be enough? Just passed an hour of GSAT at 324.


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> make the changes I posted above and run AID again. Let's see if that boosts performance.
> 
> lol - that's not helping the case here.
> 
> Okay thanks. post back with the behavior with a longer charge time (tRFC)


Had the two settings you mentioned on auto, but thanks for the advice.

Aida benchmark after changes, thanks Jpmboy.


----------



## Jpmboy

ashr said:


> Do you think the increase from 300 to 324 would be enough? Just passed an hour of GSAT at 324.


The problem was not GSAT stability, but a failed boot - right? Do a couple of warm and cold (cold = AC power off) restarts.


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> Had the two settings you mentioned on auto, but thanks for the advice.
> 
> Aida benchmark after changes, thanks Jpmboy.


Good job bro. :thumb:


----------



## SoldierRBT

Got a G.Skill 3200C14 Trident Z RGB running 4500MHz CL 17-18-18-32 1.48v on the M11A. HCI Memtest 1200%


----------



## Zemach

moorhen2 said:


> XMP does not set the IO and SA voltages, just the timings and the ram voltage, you are obviously using "Auto" for the IO and SA, which is setting very high voltages for these rails, you wont have that IMC very long I can assure you.


ram XMP 4800. If sa is lower than 1.5, it is hard to test anything, even Super pi 32M is still not able to test, how can you use it? You have to try using the XMP 4800 ram. You know that it uses a very high sa, at least 1.5v. For sa, it's a custom setting

43:30 minutes
https://youtu.be/GouD17pjeik?t=2581


----------



## Zemach

Jpmboy said:


> So you want to recommend folks use 1.6V VSA? really?


I do not recommend using sa high. Have not been classified as dangerous Compared to 4800 RAM used up to 1.6v. Because I use sa 1.4 for 1 year, I have never had any side effects.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Trail version a tad incomplete and short :/


----------



## davidm71

Confused on how much percentage of coverage testing with HCL Memtest is needed for dual rank 32gb (2x16gb) modules?

Thanks

Note: Was testing with GSat but it said I had a power spike and it just paused the system for two seconds. Weird.


----------



## The Pook

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Trail version a tad incomplete and short :/



eBay


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Confused on how much percentage of coverage testing with HCL Memtest is needed for dual rank 32gb (2x16gb) modules?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Note: Was testing with GSat but it said I had a power spike and it just paused the system for two seconds. Weird.


the pause and power spike is normal, and in-place for large server farm implementations. Just add a pause delay which is longer than the runtime and it will not pop that message. nothing harmful occurs when the "power spike" occurs on your rig (think 500 rack boxes restarting at the same time)
stressapptest -W -M 12288 -s 3600* --pause_delay 3700*


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> the pause and power spike is normal, and in-place for large server farm implementations. Just add a pause delay which is longer than the runtime and it will not pop that message. nothing harmful occurs when the "power spike" occurs on your rig (think 500 rack boxes restarting at the same time)
> stressapptest -W -M 12288 -s 3600* --pause_delay 3700*


Ok thanks!


----------



## robertr1

In thaiphoon burner does "minimum timing delays" means the memory isn't programmed to go below these timings? is this an AMD setting or applies to Intel also? 

"Minimum Timing Delays 
16-16-16-39-55"

?


----------



## ThrashZone

The Pook said:


> eBay


Hi,
Thanks what seller was that is that him on the top left or you ?

Either way I don't have a paypal anymore.


----------



## The Pook

you don't need PayPal to buy stuff on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIDA64-Ext...164400?hash=item34039177b0:g:jz0AAOSwo8NcaUtg


----------



## ThrashZone

The Pook said:


> you don't need PayPal to buy stuff on eBay.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIDA64-Ext...164400?hash=item34039177b0:g:jz0AAOSwo8NcaUtg


Hi,
Boom thanks :thumb:


----------



## gammagoat

Finale broke down and bought Aida, appreciate it If some of you guys could let me know how I'm doing what I can improve?


Edit:
Made a couple of changes that I have been itching to do, second screen shot. tRFEI from 50000 to 65000 and tRAS from 32 to 28.


----------



## davidm71

davidm71 9900K @ 5.0ghz/43X 3600mhz 14-15-15-35 @1.45v IO: 1.2v SA:1.24v HCL 200%


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
1705mg is a weird number to be running at ?


----------



## davidm71

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 1705mg is a weird number to be running at ?



Just running KedarWolfs script for 9900K cpu. Its automatic and picked 1705 on its own.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Seems 1024 or 2048 would be better numbers to go by :/


----------



## KedarWolf

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Seems 1024 or 2048 would be better numbers to go by :/


You want to be using 90% of your RAM, and you want to run 16 instances on a 9900k. :h34r-smi

1705MB of RAM for each instance will do that factoring in how much your system is using. :thumb:

Edit: And that program I compiled using AutoHotKey will assign each HCI instance to a separate CPU core, one of the 16 logical CPUs on a 9900k for each one that's running.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> the pause and power spike is normal, and in-place for large server farm implementations. Just add a pause delay which is longer than the runtime and it will not pop that message. nothing harmful occurs when the "power spike" occurs on your rig (think 500 rack boxes restarting at the same time)
> stressapptest -W -M 12288 -s 3600* --pause_delay 3700*


Never had a problem using *-s 3600 --pause_delay 3600* the power spike never happens, @Jpmboy


----------



## davidm71

KedarWolf said:


> You want to be using 90% of your RAM, and you want to run 16 instances on a 9900k. :h34r-smi
> 
> 1705MB of RAM for each instance will do that factoring in how much your system is using. :thumb:
> 
> Edit: And that program I compiled using AutoHotKey will assign each HCI instance to a separate CPU core, one of the 16 logical CPUs on a 9900k for each one that's running.


Well I much appreciate the work you put into it and your support as well. Thank you.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Never had a problem using *-s 3600 --pause_delay 3600* the power spike never happens, @*Jpmboy*


 yeah - as long as the delay is at least the runtime... I just make it certain. 
In reality, there is no "power" spike in how we use GSAT.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> KedarWolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never had a problem using *-s 3600 --pause_delay 3600* the power spike never happens, @*Jpmboy* /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> yeah - as long as the delay is at least the runtime... I just make it certain. /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> In reality, there is no "power" spike in how we use GSAT.
Click to expand...

The idea of the power spiking is to quickly load and unload the memory whilst causing a current ramp. Very few loads cause this behaviour which is why it’s safe to disable it


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> The idea of the power spiking is to quickly load and unload the memory whilst causing a current ramp. Very few loads cause this behaviour which is why it’s safe to disable it


 A scone drive-by? ... it's that "whilst" thing I miss.


----------



## Jpmboy

took a bit of effort but I finally got 4500c16 stable. Straight 16s fails, 16-17-17 fails after 30 min or so. 16-18-18 passed 1h GSAT and overnight RamTest.
Pulled the 8086K and popped in an 8700K(ES), mainly because I wanted to try those stoopid voltages for 4800, but this 8700K can't post 4800 anything so far.
surprisingly low RTLs and RDD of 3 and 5 worked (as they do for the 8086K).


----------



## moorhen2

Finally got this 3200 kit to do IT at 4133mhz, 16-17-17-32-1T at 1.480v, IO 1.23125v and SA 1.23750v.


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> took a bit of effort but I finally got 4500c16 stable. Straight 16s fails, 16-17-17 fails after 30 min or so. 16-18-18 passed 1h GSAT and overnight RamTest.
> Pulled the 8086K and popped in an 8700K(ES), mainly because I wanted to try those stoopid voltages for 4800, but this 8700K can't post 4800 anything so far.
> surprisingly low RTLs and RDD of 3 and 5 worked (as they do for the 8086K).


Nice Jpm, is that your 3200 kit ?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> took a bit of effort but I finally got 4500c16 stable. Straight 16s fails, 16-17-17 fails after 30 min or so. 16-18-18 passed 1h GSAT and overnight RamTest.
> Pulled the 8086K and popped in an 8700K(ES), mainly because I wanted to try those stoopid voltages for 4800, but this 8700K can't post 4800 anything so far.
> surprisingly low RTLs and RDD of 3 and 5 worked (as they do for the 8086K).


nice.

me i can gsat no problems 4000-4266 but it will fail ramtest upped sa/io to almost 1.3 nada dropped oced lower cache nothing works but gsat flying colors


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> Nice Jpm, is that your 3200 kit ?


 no - but I think the 3200 kit is capable. I'll change this 4800kit out for the 3200c14s tonight since I can't post 4800 with this 8700K, and see what happens. 
4133 1T. excellent!


----------



## Esenel

moorhen2 said:


> Finally got this 3200 kit to do IT at 4133mhz, 16-17-17-32-1T at 1.480v, IO 1.23125v and SA 1.23750v.


Could you post asrock timing configurator and aida benchmark? Thanks!


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> no - but I think the 3200 kit is capable. I'll change this 4800kit out for the 3200c14s tonight since I can't post 4800 with this 8700K, and see what happens.
> 4133 1T. excellent!


Thanks.

Don't forget that 4800 will require IO 1.5v and SA 1.6v. Lol


----------



## moorhen2

Esenel said:


> Could you post asrock timing configurator and aida benchmark? Thanks!


Here you go.


----------



## SoldierRBT

My computer takes a little bit longer (like 6 more seconds) to boot from cold boot after I overclock the ram to 4500C17. Is this normal?

9900K
Maximus XI Apex 
3200C14 Trident Z RGB


----------



## Esenel

moorhen2 said:


> Esenel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you post asrock timing configurator and aida benchmark? Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go.
Click to expand...

That's a badass latency 😮

The Apex Board is crazy 😄


----------



## moorhen2

SoldierRBT said:


> My computer takes a little bit longer (like 6 more seconds) to boot from cold boot after I overclock the ram to 4500C17. Is this normal?
> 
> 9900K
> Maximus XI Apex
> 3200C14 Trident Z RGB


Memory training most likely.


----------



## moorhen2

Esenel said:


> That's a badass latency 😮
> 
> The Apex Board is crazy 😄


Thanks, yes the XI Apex is a beast.


----------



## moorhen2

3200 @ 4500 cl17.


----------



## swddeluxx

*moorhen2 *

Nice 4500 CL17 Result 

DRAM, IO and SA Voltage ?


there is my 4533 cl17 Setting


----------



## zGunBLADEz

so where are the stability tests?


----------



## SoldierRBT

moorhen2 said:


> Memory training most likely.


Changed some settings on BIOS and now it boots fine. Thank you


----------



## SoldierRBT

zGunBLADEz said:


> so where are the stability tests?


Here is mine 

4500MHZ CL17 1.48v 1.23v IO 1.24v SA


----------



## zGunBLADEz

SoldierRBT said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> so where are the stability tests?
> 
> 
> 
> Here is mine /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 4500MHZ CL17 1.48v 1.23v IO 1.24v SA
Click to expand...

Sweet xD gj


----------



## cx-ray

The Pook said:


> you don't need PayPal to buy stuff on eBay.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIDA64-Ext...164400?hash=item34039177b0:g:jz0AAOSwo8NcaUtg


This seller is distributing invalid or pirated licenses. I bought one and I'm occasionally now getting ads in AIDA64 after startup. Also, the license isn't lifetime as described.

https://forums.aida64.com/topic/3740-ads-banner/


----------



## The Pook

cx-ray said:


> This seller is distributing invalid or pirated licenses. I bought one and I'm occasionally now getting ads in AIDA64 after startup. Also, the license isn't lifetime as described.
> 
> https://forums.aida64.com/topic/3740-ads-banner/



a 10 year license for $1 is good enough for me. 

no ads here and I've got access to all the "non-free edition" features. :thumb:


----------



## cx-ray

The Pook said:


> a 10 year license for $1 is good enough for me.
> 
> no ads here and I've got access to all the "non-free edition" features. :thumb:



If it was a legit license it still would only be useful until 18/2/2024. After that you won't get updates to the program.

This is how a legit copy looks like:


----------



## The Pook

I guess I'll need to buy another $1 key in 5 years :laughings


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> I guess I'll need to buy another $1 key in 5 years :laughings


what a worry!


----------



## cx-ray

The Pook said:


> I guess I'll need to buy another $1 key in 5 years :laughings


Pook, I'm sure that link was posted in good faith and it was just a matter of passing on a good deal for anyone else interested in AIDA64. I think everyone can appreciate that. My feedback is purely based on my experience with the product itself. Nothing personal.

To reproduce the issue: 

Perform an update check. Two ads will appear at the bottom of AIDA64. Obviously that shouldn't be there in a legitimate copy.


----------



## davidm71

@Jpmboy

I heard that your using two separate dual channel kits together in a 4 dimm configuration. Considering they were unmatched did you have any difficulty getting them stable at XMP and overclocking them? 

I have a couple of G.Skill 3600 Cas 15-15-15-35 kits on the way and planning to use them together. As they are two separate kits not sure it will work. Wonder what you think?

Thanks


----------



## SoldierRBT

This will be my daily RAM overclock. 4400MHz CL17 2000% HCI Memtest. Settings on BIOS: RAM 1.450v IO 1.200v SA 1.225v


----------



## The Pook

cx-ray said:


> Pook, I'm sure that link was posted in good faith and it was just a matter of passing on a good deal for anyone else interested in AIDA64. I think everyone can appreciate that. My feedback is purely based on my experience with the product itself. Nothing personal.
> 
> To reproduce the issue:
> 
> Perform an update check. Two ads will appear at the bottom of AIDA64. Obviously that shouldn't be there in a legitimate copy.




Again, I have no ads and it works the same as the fully activated version. 

I don't doubt that they're not legitimate keys since they're $1, but they work just fine.


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> I heard that your using two separate dual channel kits together in a 4 dimm configuration. Considering they were unmatched did you have any difficulty getting them stable at XMP and overclocking them?
> I have a couple of G.Skill 3600 Cas 15-15-15-35 kits on the way and planning to use them together. As they are two separate kits not sure it will work. Wonder what you think?
> Thanks


yes, I have two 2x8GB 3600c15 kits on my RVI Apex/7980XE rig at 4000c16 basically since the board launched. I would just forget about XMP in this scenario, just enter the primary timings manually and go from there. I'm sure we can get the two kits OD'd together.


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> yes, I have two 2x8GB 3600c15 kits on my RVI Apex/7980XE rig at 4000c16 basically since the board launched. I would just forget about XMP in this scenario, just enter the primary timings manually and go from there. I'm sure we can get the two kits OD'd together.



Awesome! Thank you!


----------



## rv8000

@Jpmboy

I'm thinking about replacing this 3600c17 RGB kit as I'd like to hunt something down that can do a daily 4000-4200 c17 (my kit is stable at 4300 but pretty loose timings); and the RGB won't stay DISABLED (this LED software from G.Skill is a turd). I also originally picked this kit up because it was on a flash sale for like $100 less than most b-die kits a few months back.

What b-die kit's are typically best to try and hunt down to hit sayyyy 4000-4400 @ 17-18-18-40ish 2T ~300 tRFC and like 50k + trefi at around 1.5v? Would someone typically be better off buying a higher speed bin or rolling the dice on 3200 c14 kits?


----------



## Neo_Morpheus

The Pook thanks for your help in the other thread. I'm just setting up this new system and testing it but I've found a stable basic setting, I'm at 4266 16-16-16-34 2T 1.475v vDIMM, 1.225 VCCIO/SA. I will have to look around and learn more about changing sub-timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

eh, I just sold a 4400c19 kit that ran 4500c17 on my Apex/8086 rig. But really most any 3200c14 or certainly a 3600c15 or c16 2x8GB kit should manage what you want. All kits are a dice roll, no matter the binning by the manufacturer. But frequency binning does remove some uncertainty. Frankly a $500 4800C18 RGB kit I have is not doing any better on my z370 rig than 3200 or 3600 kits... but, it does run much lower RTLs than either, or any other kit I have. And I have a few - it's an affliction. 

Yeah, I also have to shut off the RAM rgb every time I boot no matter what I set in bios or ASUS Aura.


----------



## rv8000

Jpmboy said:


> eh, I just sold a 4400c19 kit that ran 4500c17 on my Apex/8086 rig. But really most any 3200c14 or certainly a 3600c15 or c16 2x8GB kit should manage what you want. All kits are a dice roll, no matter the binning by the manufacturer. But frequency binning does remove some uncertainty. Frankly a $500 4800C18 RGB kit I have is not doing any better on my z370 rig than 3200 or 3600 kits... but, it does run much lower RTLs than either, or any other kit I have. And I have a few - it's an affliction.
> 
> Yeah, I also have to shut off the RAM rgb every time I boot no matter what I set in bios or ASUS Aura.


Thanks :thumb:


----------



## The Pook

Neo_Morpheus said:


> The Pook thanks for your help in the other thread. I'm just setting up this new system and testing it but I've found a stable basic setting, I'm at 4266 16-16-16-34 2T 1.475v vDIMM, 1.225 VCCIO/SA. I will have to look around and learn more about changing sub-timings.


:thumb: 

If you wanna try and copy my sub-timings, this is where I'm at. You might need to loosen them since you're at 4266 though, but my kit is pretty mediocre and you might be able to run them as is.


----------



## GeneO

davidm71 said:


> Well I much appreciate the work you put into it and your support as well. Thank you.


lol. taking credit for what other people did.


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> A scone drive-by? ... it's that "whilst" thing I miss.


Sorry, didn't mean for it to appear that way just been really busy of late!


----------



## davidm71

GeneO said:


> lol. taking credit for what other people did.


 I hold my fellow overclockers especially the great ones with great regard and respect. Never do I take credit for other peoples work more than just trying to learn and understand.


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Sorry, didn't mean for it to appear that way just been really busy of late!



hey bud, we need you here... lot's of ram stuff going on.


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> yes, I have two 2x8GB 3600c15 kits on my RVI Apex/7980XE rig at 4000c16 basically since the board launched. I would just forget about XMP in this scenario, just enter the primary timings manually and go from there. I'm sure we can get the two kits OD'd together.


 @Jpmboy

Got those cas 15-15-15-35 3600mhz modules today and just installed both kits keeping each one in their own channel. Turned on XMP. Set 1.2v IO and 1.24v SA and 1.35 DRAM volts. Currently Memtesting at 30 percent coverage no errors. Wish me luck. Thank you.

EDIT: Just got an error! As soon as I hit submit! Oh man!


----------



## Jpmboy

you need to do a clear cmos to remove the XMP completely. Is this on your Aorus Master board? POst a timing configurator snip of what booted as "XMP"


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> you need to do a clear cmos to remove the XMP completely. Is this on your Aorus Master board?



Yes it is. If I clear CMOS can I load a saved cmos profile or got to start over?


----------



## The Pook

clearing CMOS shouldn't lose your saved profiles.


----------



## davidm71

The Pook said:


> clearing CMOS shouldn't lose your saved profiles.


Yeah but I would assume it would just load up all the previous no good data if I load a saved profile. Anyhow it’s moot point cause I upgraded my bios to F9B and will have to start over. Anyhow should I load up Xmp profile or just say no to xmp?

Thanks


----------



## The Pook

... do you want XMP? then enable XMP. If you're just going to OC anyway then it doesn't matter.


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Yeah but I would assume it would just load up all the previous no good data if I load a saved profile. Anyhow it’s moot point cause I upgraded my bios to F9B and will have to start over. Anyhow should I load up Xmp profile or just say no to xmp?
> 
> Thanks


 if you load a saved profile that used XMP from any kits (these or previous) just do not F10 to put that profile in effect. Change XMP to manual, go thru every dram timing setting and change to auto. dram V to auto, vccio vsa to auto. F10 to save and boot, then reenter bios and manually set the primary timings, vsa to 1.2-1.25V vccio to 1.2-1,25V, dram freq to 3600 and see if it wil boot. XMP changes things that you do not have access to, so a clear cmos is needed.
That said... why not just clr cmos and overclock the rig with your new ram in place? Setting things like vcore and boot priorities takes a few seconds...


----------



## KCDC

Hey there, everyone! I've recently upgraded to 64gb TridentZ royal 3200 cl14. It's my understanding that the more ram you have, the more difficult it is to overclock it, correct? Difficult but not impossible? I know I'm cheating a bit here, but this thread is massive and I'd like to get a starting point for 64gb kits with these b-die chips. I quickly tried 4000 19 19 19 38 2t 1.35v based off a review that could get those numbers without needing to tweak secondary timings, but I wouldn't even post, probably because they were using a 16gb kit and a different mobo/cpu or my input voltage wasn't enough. Wanting to play it safe, but also see what this kit can do. 



I'm on a 9900x x299 tuf mk1.


TIA!


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> if you load a saved profile that used XMP from any kits (these or previous) just do not F10 to put that profile in effect. Change XMP to manual, go thru every dram timing setting and change to auto. dram V to auto, vccio vsa to auto. F10 to save and boot, then reenter bios and manually set the primary timings, vsa to 1.2-1.25V vccio to 1.2-1,25V, dram freq to 3600 and see if it wil boot. XMP changes things that you do not have access to, so a clear cmos is needed.
> That said... why not just clr cmos and overclock the rig with your new ram in place? Setting things like vcore and boot priorities takes a few seconds...


Well I started over, cleared cmos, flashed latest bios ver 9b after updating microcodes, and then put my settings in fresh. Even was able to drop stable Vcore by 0.10 mv. Manually put in stock settings and after 30 minutes of error checking increased the frequency to 3800 17-17-17-44 1.45v dram 1.2v io, and 1.24 SA. Memtested over an hour with over 100% coverage completely error free. Tomorrow will try 4000mhz and lower voltages. Thanks.


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Well I started over, cleared cmos, flashed latest bios ver 9b after updating microcodes, and then put my settings in fresh. Even was able to drop stable Vcore by 0.10 mv. Manually put in stock settings and after 30 minutes of error checking increased the frequency to 3800 17-17-17-44 1.45v dram 1.2v io, and 1.24 SA. Memtested over an hour with over 100% coverage completely error free. *Tomorrow will try 4000mhz and lower voltages. Thanks.*


 Yeah, XMP programming can carry a number of settings beyond ram timings. Clrcmos/bios flash was the way to go.
But... _AND _lower voltages? 4000c16 is going to need in the range of 1.45V VDIMM. VSA and VCCIO will be about where you have them (1.2-1.25V)


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, XMP programming can carry a number of settings beyond ram timings. Clrcmos/bios flash was the way to go.
> But... _AND _lower voltages? 4000c16 is going to need in the range of 1.45V VDIMM. VSA and VCCIO will be about where you have them (1.2-1.25V)


I guess your right but at least maybe my vcore could go lower considering using a new microcode maybe. Thanks.


----------



## NIK1

I have been tightening some of my memory secondaries today and wonder in the bios I have TWTR_L at 4 and TWTR_S at 4.Now in windows ASRock timing config shows it at 12 and 7.Is this just a read bug and are these two settings really at 4 and 4 like the bios shows..Also whats the best way to get the RTL's to tighten up.


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> I have been tightening some of my memory secondaries today and wonder in the bios I have TWTR_L at 4 and TWTR_S at 4.Now in windows ASRock timing config shows it at 12 and 7.Is this just a read bug and are these two settings really at 4 and 4 like the bios shows..Also whats the best way to get the RTL's to tighten up.


 what MB and ram kit?
add your rig to your signature block...


----------



## slayer6288

I have 2 16GB 8x2 gskill ddr4 15-15-15-35 3600 kits running together on a maximus xi extreme board. Yes I know using 2 kits even if the same may not behave properly but these kits work with 0 errors at xmp 2 with tweak mode 1 and vccio 1.15 and vccsa 1.2 ram at 1.36. I have literally 0 wiggle room right now out of the xmp 2 and mode 1 profile. Mode 2 for the tweak is unstable and xmp 1 is also unstable. Obv increasing freq is also unstable I was able to pass training once at 3733 but it bluescreened related to ndis.sys on boot right away. Is this normal to have literally 0 overclockability with these kits? Like none?


----------



## Jpmboy

slayer6288 said:


> I have 2 16GB 8x2 gskill ddr4 15-15-15-35 3600 kits running together on a maximus xi extreme board. Yes I know using 2 kits even if the same may not behave properly but these kits work with 0 errors at xmp 2 with tweak mode 1 and vccio 1.15 and vccsa 1.2 ram at 1.36. I have literally 0 wiggle room right now out of the xmp 2 and mode 1 profile. Mode 2 for the tweak is unstable and xmp 1 is also unstable. Obv increasing freq is also unstable I was able to pass training once at 3733 but it bluescreened related to ndis.sys on boot right away. Is this normal to have literally 0 overclockability with these kits? Like none?


 no.. I have several 3600c15 kits running 4000 on x299 and 4500c17 on z370. SCroll back in this thread, I posted help for another user on the Mx11E. I gave mine to a "youngling" in the family.
You need to clrcmos, disable the MemOkay switch on the motherboard (it is a physical switch). Then enter bios and set the primary timings for 3600c15 manually. Once you have that stable, post back... if the CPU has a decent IMC the board and sticks can do 4000+.
:thumb:


----------



## SgtRotty

Jpmboy said:


> slayer6288 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 16GB 8x2 gskill ddr4 15-15-15-35 3600 kits running together on a maximus xi extreme board. Yes I know using 2 kits even if the same may not behave properly but these kits work with 0 errors at xmp 2 with tweak mode 1 and vccio 1.15 and vccsa 1.2 ram at 1.36. I have literally 0 wiggle room right now out of the xmp 2
> 
> 
> and mode 1 profile. Mode 2 for the tweak is unstable and xmp 1 is also unstable. Obv increasing freq is also unstable I was able to pass training once at 3733 but it bluescreened related to ndis.sys on boot right away. Is this normal to have literally 0 overclockability with these kits? Like none?
> 
> 
> 
> no.. I have several 3600c15 kits running 4000 on x299 and 4500c17 on z370. SCroll back in this thread, I posted help for another user on the Mx11E. I gave mine to a "youngling" in the family.
> You need to clrcmos, disable the MemOkay switch on the motherboard (it is a physical switch). Then enter bios and set the primary timings for 3600c15 manually. Once you have that stable, post back... if the CPU has a decent IMC the board and sticks can do 4000+.
> /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

I have the z370 asus prime-a with 8086k, is 4000mhz with tight timings all this board will do? Ive tried all loose primaries, secondaries, wont post above 4000 no matter what i do


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> what MB and ram kit?
> add your rig to your signature block...


Thanks Jpmboy..I have my Rig on my Sig now.Asus IX Apex mb with 2 sticks G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR.OC to 3866 1.46v 16-16-16-36 1N mode 2.I did have these at 15-15-15 36 1N but unstable and lots of blue screens..CL 16 works great with no blue screens and 2 hrs testing with Ram Test and passed OK.I can also get these to boot at 4000 and 4133 with 20 21 21 46 2N Mode 1 but very unstable even with up to 1.5 dram volts and up to 1.35V IO/SA Volts.. Anything under CL 20 she wont boot at all for over 4000.


----------



## The Pook

SgtRotty said:


> I have the z370 asus prime-a with 8086k, is 4000mhz with tight timings all this board will do? Ive tried all loose primaries, secondaries, wont post above 4000 no matter what i do



Nothing above 4000 is on the QVL, I'd imagine that's all that's supported. 

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/PRIME_Z370-A/Memory_QVL.pdf


----------



## slayer6288

@Jpmboy Since you have the same kit what would u recommend for 4000c16 using 4x8 of the c15 3600 ram. Ram timings wise VCCSA and VCCIO voltage and ram voltage. Starting point obviously not all ram is created equal. Also what does the memok button do on the xi extreme and why should it be turned off?

Update:

So I get everything except one thing here with memory overclocking. The sub timings. What should I focus on and if I leave them on auto what value does it use the value the xmp specifies or the jedec default value for 2133mhz or what?


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Thanks Jpmboy..I have my Rig on my Sig now.Asus IX Apex mb with 2 sticks G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR.OC to 3866 1.46v 16-16-16-36 1N mode 2.I did have these at 15-15-15 36 1N but unstable and lots of blue screens..CL 16 works great with no blue screens and 2 hrs testing with Ram Test and passed OK.I can also get these to boot at 4000 and 4133 with 20 21 21 46 2N Mode 1 but very unstable even with up to 1.5 dram volts and up to 1.35V IO/SA Volts.. Anything under CL 20 she wont boot at all for over 4000.


yeah, on the Apex IX with a 7700K, 3866 is the sweetspot. I'd stick with that and maybe see if you can tighten 2nd and 3rd timings. THe z170 platform is a good one, but a bit dated now. You can probably get the rtls down to 48/49 or even lower with some effort


SgtRotty said:


> I have the z370 asus prime-a with 8086k, *is 4000mhz with tight timings all this board will do?* Ive tried all loose primaries, secondaries, wont post above 4000 no matter what i do


 IDK, is it? 
Lol - I love these posts complaining about "4000 with tight timings"




slayer6288 said:


> @*Jpmboy* Since you have the same kit what would u recommend for 4000c16 using 4x8 of the c15 3600 ram. Ram timings wise VCCSA and VCCIO voltage and ram voltage. Starting point obviously not all ram is created equal. Also what does the memok button do on the xi extreme and why should it be turned off?
> 
> Update:
> 
> So I get everything except one thing here with memory overclocking. The sub timings. What should I focus on and if I leave them on auto what value does it use the value the xmp specifies or the jedec default value for 2133mhz or what?


Auto rules for the timings scale with frequency (and some with voltage and frequency). If you have a (relatively) stable 4000c16 running post, a snip of the Timing Configurator, otherwise we have no idea what the timings are.


----------



## davidm71

Hi,

These are the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ G.Skill 3600 C15 (2 pairs of 2x8gb kits unmatched) @4000mhz 17-17-17-44 @1.45 volts w/ 1.2v IO + 1.24v SA HCL 200%+



















These scores seem slow for 4000? Maybe I should OC the uncore?


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> Hi,
> 
> These are the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ G.Skill 3600 C15 (2 pairs of 2x8gb kits unmatched) @4000mhz 17-17-17-44 @1.45 volts w/ 1.2v IO + 1.24v SA HCL 200%+
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These scores seem slow for 4000? Maybe I should OC the uncore?


Try tRAS @ 38, tWR @ 18, tRFC @ 375, tRTP @ 6 and tFAW @ 20. Now test. If all is good try tCL @ 16 and test. If that's good try CR1. Good Luck.


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, on the Apex IX with a I7-7700K, 3866 is the sweetspot. I'd stick with that and maybe see if you can tighten 2nd and 3rd timings. THe z170 platform is a good one, but a bit dated now. You can probably get the rtls down to 48/49 or even lower with some effort.
> 
> Thanks for the info Jpmboy.My Apex IX is a Z270 mb and I wonder what timings do you lower to get the RTL'sto drop down.Here is a shot of my Timings.Is there anything you see here that I can drop more.TWTR_L showes 12 with ASRock TC but in the bios it is set at 4.


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> Try tRAS @ 38, tWR @ 18, tRFC @ 375, tRTP @ 6 and tFAW @ 20. Now test. If all is good try tCL @ 16 and test. If that's good try CR1. Good Luck.


Thanks. Will give it a go tomorrow.

Note: Raised uncore to x45 and timings to 17-17-17-37. Seems stable so far. Slight improvement in scores.


----------



## centvalny

Gskill 4133C17 @ 4800 1.5V


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Hi,
> 
> These are the F4-3600C15D-16GTZ G.Skill 3600 C15 (2 pairs of 2x8gb kits unmatched) @4000mhz 17-17-17-44 @1.45 volts w/ 1.2v IO + 1.24v SA HCL 200%
> 
> These scores seem slow for 4000? Maybe I should OC the uncore?


So the 3600c15s are doing better than your previous kit(s) - right?
Try KW's timing suggestions, and yes uncore affects the AID64 memory benchmark. See how things improve by just changing the timings, then spin up the cache. BTW, with 32GB, HCi memtest will need overnight runs to ferret out errors. Use GSAT or Ramtest. HCi is good but painfully slow with 32GB or more. 





NIK1 said:


> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, on the Apex IX with a I7-7700K, 3866 is the sweetspot. I'd stick with that and maybe see if you can tighten 2nd and 3rd timings. THe z170 platform is a good one, but a bit dated now. You can probably get the rtls down to 48/49 or even lower with some effort.
> 
> Thanks for the info Jpmboy.My Apex IX is a Z270 mb and I wonder what timings do you lower to get the RTL'sto drop down.Here is a shot of my Timings.Is there anything you see here that I can drop more.TWTR_L showes 12 with ASRock TC but in the bios it is set at 4.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, 270. (I still have a Impact here.. fantastic mini board.  ) Verify the TWTR_L setting with memtweakit - ATC does mis read some timings, and the chipset will correct those that it can if they are way off.
> 
> It looks to me that you have those sticks tuned up really well as is. what happens if you manually set 48/49/6/6 for the RTLs and IOLs? q-code 49 or 55?
Click to expand...


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> So the 3600c15s are doing better than your previous kit(s) - right?
> Try KW's timing suggestions, and yes uncore affects the AID64 memory benchmark. See how things improve by just changing the timings, then spin up the cache. BTW, with 32GB, HCi memtest will need overnight runs to ferret out errors. Use GSAT or Ramtest. HCi is good but painfully slow with 32GB or more.


Its a little early to tell but so far so good. Well only because they are rated 400mhz higher and can reach higher overclocks especially now because they are single ranked x 4. The aida64 scores are slightly better overclocked. But the old 3200mhz OC to 3600OC dual rank kit at 14-15-15-35 performed slightly better than the newer kit as cas 15-15-15-35 3600mhz. Got to thank you for that tip to do the CMOS reset. That did the trick. 

Oh about tightening the tRFC values .. on the old kit was at 461 and gave me errors until I took it to 630. Hope these modules are more tolerant. Anyhow your right HCL takes forever. Must be killing the electric bill stress testing. I put a few 30mm fans chained together on top of the ram to keep them cool. Looks nice with the LEDS.

Thanks for all your help.

PS: To the kid whose got the Apex IX. I also picked one up on sale at $89 after rebate. Going to put that old dual rank kit in there maybe with my old 6700K and see what happens.


----------



## NIK1

NIK1 said:


> yeah, 270. (I still have a Impact here.. fantastic mini board.  ) Verify the TWTR_L setting with memtweakit - ATC does mis read some timings, and the chipset will correct those that it can if they are way off.
> 
> It looks to me that you have those sticks tuned up really well as is. what happens if you manually set 48/49/6/6 for the RTLs and IOLs? q-code 49 or 55?


I will give it a try what you suggest and report back..Thanks again for your guidance...


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, XMP programming can carry a number of settings beyond ram timings. Clrcmos/bios flash was the way to go.
> But... _AND _lower voltages? 4000c16 is going to need in the range of 1.45V VDIMM. VSA and VCCIO will be about where you have them (1.2-1.25V)





davidm71 said:


> I guess your right but at least maybe my vcore could go lower considering using a new microcode maybe. Thanks.


Bios F8H, F8i and F8 had some sort of bug in voltage regulation which required at least 10mv more voltage for stability compared to F8E and older.
F9B seems to have addressed that (done many hours of testing). That's why you think you need 10mv lower voltage. It's just seems to be back to where F8E was.
Nothing to do with the microcodes at all (I used VMware to update the AE microcode before the modded bios was out) and tested it as far back as F7A.


----------



## SgtRotty

Delete


----------



## SgtRotty

Ive seen people posting CR1 up to 4000+ on other boards, on this board i cannot get past 3333mhz with cr1. Tested with memtest for 800-1000% few times each


On 4000, i can only use cr2, but with straight 16s! And a little lower latency. Thats all i can muster outta this setup.
Secondaries are close to the same for both frequencies, rtl and iols are different once they are learned

1.45v dram
1.180 Vccio
1.180 Vssa


----------



## The Pook




----------



## SgtRotty

The Pook said:


>


Sorry bout that, noob photo taker! I appreciate all the info thanks!
Fixed


----------



## NIK1

NIK1 said:


> yeah, 270. (I still have a Impact here.. fantastic mini board.  ) Verify the TWTR_L setting with memtweakit - ATC does mis read some timings, and the chipset will correct those that it can if they are way off.
> 
> It looks to me that you have those sticks tuned up really well as is. what happens if you manually set 48/49/6/6 for the RTLs and IOLs? q-code 49 or 55?


Well I tried to tighten the RTL's,on Auto it made them 67 and the lowest I could set them and boot was 65.Error code 55 on any number lower than 65..


----------



## slayer6288

So my computer is not having ram higher than 3600 run so I settled on tightening the timings on my kit instead to 15-15-15-35-347-32767 1t. Improved my latency from 42.5 to 39.5 and added about 2500 to read/w/c on aida all are now 55500-56500-54500. I will take it. Bumping to 4000 17-17-17-37 with 1.45vdimm would boot but my write would nosedive from 56000ish to 30000ish. So obviously was very unstable. With my above timing and 1.15 vccio and 1.2 vccsa I am ramtest stable %20400 10 and a half hours highest module temp 36 celcius. I will take it.

9900k at 5.1 core 4.7 cache 2080ti 4x8 3600 cl15 gskill maximus xi extreme


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Well I tried to tighten the RTL's,on Auto it made them 67 and the lowest I could set them and boot was 65.Error code 55 on any number lower than 65..


67? Typo - right? The rtls in your snip are at 57/59 and 7/7 for the IOLs. Ch A and B D0 are the channels to focus on. Leave the others on Auto.


----------



## kignt

slayer6288 said:


> So my computer is not having ram higher than 3600 run so I settled on tightening the timings on my kit instead to 15-15-15-35-347-32767 1t. Improved my latency from 42.5 to 39.5 and added about 2500 to read/w/c on aida all are now 55500-56500-54500. I will take it. Bumping to 4000 17-17-17-37 with 1.45vdimm would boot but my write would nosedive from 56000ish to 30000ish. So obviously was very unstable. With my above timing and 1.15 vccio and 1.2 vccsa I am ramtest stable %20400 10 and a half hours highest module temp 36 celcius. I will take it.
> 
> 9900k at 5.1 core 4.7 cache 2080ti 4x8 3600 cl15 gskill maximus xi extreme


Lock down tRDRD_dg: 4 and tWRWR_dg: 4


----------



## slayer6288

For when running at 3600? Does it add a nice perf boost or is that for trying to stabilize 4000?


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> 67? Typo - right? The rtls in your snip are at 57/59 and 7/7 for the IOLs. Ch A and B D0 are the active channels. Leave the others on Auto.


Yea.My Bad..I put in the wrong numbers here..57/59 RTL and 7/7 IOL.I tried dropping them lower and she's a no boot.


----------



## kignt

slayer6288 said:


> For when running at 3600? Does it add a nice perf boost or is that for trying to stabilize 4000?


For all speeds. Those timings seem to always be 4 in every tested speed. The write/copy transfer speeds become out of whack when those timings are not 4


----------



## slayer6288

kignt said:


> For all speeds. Those timings seem to always be 4 in every tested speed. The write/copy transfer speeds become out of whack when those timings are not 4


Ah so that might be why my copy speeds nose dived when I was at 4000 because they probably werent set to 4 as they should be good to know ty sir


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> Try tRAS @ 38, tWR @ 18, tRFC @ 375, tRTP @ 6 and tFAW @ 20. Now test. If all is good try tCL @ 16 and test. If that's good try CR1. Good Luck.


Just got my Ram Test license and testing 17-17-17-37, tRAS 38, tWR 18, tRFC 375, + tFAW 20 timings. Wonder though how you worked out those exact numbers and if 'Ram Test' by Karhu recommended?

Thanks


----------



## The Pook

RAM Test is fine, it and GSAT is what most people here use. Just make sure you test all your sticks. If you have 2 8GB sticks, test at _least_ 8193 MB.


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> Just got my Ram Test license and testing 17-17-17-37, tRAS 38, tWR 18, tRFC 375, + tFAW 20 timings. Wonder though how you worked out those exact numbers and if 'Ram Test' by Karhu recommended?
> 
> Thanks


The numbers I gave you are based on what I have learned from the OP's spoiler alert on timings and hours of memory OC. JP has similar kits and I have a CL16 3600 kit at 4000 on my currant machine. You might say the timings I gave you are just a educated guess. :headscrat:


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> The numbers I gave you are based on what I have learned from the OP's spoiler alert on timings and hours of memory OC. JP has similar kits and I have a CL16 3600 kit at 4000 on my currant machine. You might say the timings I gave you are just a educated guess. :headscrat:


Ok Cool. Thanks.

Edit: Wow!!!! Some crazy benchmark scores you got!! Wowwww!!!


----------



## Falkentyne

davidm71 said:


> Ok Cool. Thanks.
> 
> Edit: Wow!!!! Some crazy benchmark scores you got!! Wowwww!!!


That's a HEDT platform. Quad channel kits get scores that high.
Z390 platforms can't come anywhere close.


----------



## davidm71

Falkentyne said:


> That's a HEDT platform. Quad channel kits get scores that high.
> Z390 platforms can't come anywhere close.


I noticed studying your png image you posted. Anyhow with those settings I'm 1 hour Mem Test stable.

Checkout the fans I hooked up over my memory:


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> I noticed studying your png image you posted. Anyhow with those settings I'm 1 hour Mem Test stable.
> Checkout the fans I hooked up over my memory:
> Wish I could have resized that image. Don't know how.


 Zip ties... always a fix! The new duct tape. 
Instead of putting the picture in the main body text, use the drag and drop and the picture is loaded as a clickable thumbnail (it is a rather large thumbnail). Save thread space and more importantly, does not load the whole big arse picture on a mobile device. 
post up a timing config snip so we can see all the timings.


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> Zip ties... always a fix! The new duct tape.
> Instead of putting the picture in the main body text, use the drag and drop and the picture is loaded as a clickable thumbnail (it is a rather large thumbnail). Save thread space and more importantly, does not load the whole big arse picture on a mobile device.
> post up a timing config snip so we can see all the timings.


Sorry Fixed now.

Should I try 16-17-17-37 next ?


----------



## davidm71

@BradleyW,

Was doing research and came across your posts about the difficulty you had with your ram modules. What ever came of that? What was the cause? 

Did you exceed safe voltage limits? What happened? 

Curious


----------



## KedarWolf

@Jpmboy

The below is GSAT and HCI stable.

Anything I need to adjust in my timings? I mean am I following the timings rules I should?


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> Sorry Fixed now.
> 
> Should I try 16-17-17-37 next ?


Yes, tRAS to 38.


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Sorry Fixed now.
> 
> *Should I try 16-17-17-37 next* ?


Why not?


KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> The below is GSAT and HCI stable.
> 
> Anything I need to adjust in my timings? I mean am I following the timings rules I should?


That's 32GB - right? If yes, it al looks pretty tight to me. Any changes by 1 or 2 here and there are not gonna make any real difference with things that well tuned. I'd stand pat... unless you are gonna try a higher frequency.


----------



## kignt

8700K & z370 Taichi & F4-3200C14D-32GTZ (2x16GB)
3733-15-16-16-36-1T 1.435v
io=1.22v sa=1.27v
GSAT 1 Hour, Karhu cache-enabled 7 Hours 15000%, HCI 500%, 

Geekbench 4: single-memory 8253, multi-memory 9763
Geekbench 3: single-memory 6914, multi-memory 7909

The 3866 I had didn't train after cold boots. But 3733 c15-16 1T is looking good. Highest gsat copy speed I've seen for my system, which leads me to believe I didn't optimize my other ram kit enough.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> Why not?
> 
> That's 32GB - right? If yes, it al looks pretty tight to me. Any changes by 1 or 2 here and there are not gonna make any real difference with things that well tuned. I'd stand pat... unless you are gonna try a higher frequency.


I can do 4200MHZ, sometimes it'll pass GSAT, sometimes not, with all of the timings manually set except IOL's and RTLs, (Gigabyte BIOS can't set them). 

Won't pass HCI or Ram Test though and I tried dialling down the cache, no go.


----------



## moorhen2

Well I can safely say this 3200 cl14 kit is stable at 4400 cl17, 1.475v, IO 1.23v, SA 1.25v. 5100% HCI run.


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> Yes, tRAS to 38.


So far no errors testing with Karhu's Ram Tester at [email protected] 16-17-17-37 1.2 io 1.24 SA.


----------



## SoldierRBT

4600MHz CL18 on a 3200C14 Trident Z RGB kit.


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> So far no errors testing with Karhu's Ram Tester at [email protected] 16-17-17-37 1.2 io 1.24 SA.


That is Awesome. :thumb: When complete try CR1 but change tRAS to 38 it will not effect the speed. If good run Adia64 benchmark.


----------



## gammagoat

CptSpig said:


> That is Awesome. :thumb: When complete try CR1 but change tRAS to 38 it will not effect the speed. If good run Adia64 benchmark.


Is tRAS a determining factor in whether CR1 is achievable? Are there others?

I'm happy with my ram oc other than CR.


----------



## The Pook

I don't think so. Above ~3466 my RAM won't hit CR1 regardless of other timings.


----------



## CptSpig

gammagoat said:


> Is tRAS a determining factor in whether CR1 is achievable? Are there others?
> 
> I'm happy with my ram oc other than CR.


tRAS = tCL+tRCD+tRTP +/- 2 so I recommend changing tRAS to 38 because I don't want CR1 to fail because tRAS is to tight. tRAS will not impact speed substantially so best to loosen IMO.
Command rate - is the delay (in clock cycles) between when chip select is asserted (i.e. the RAM is selected) and commands (i.e. Activate Row) can be issued to the RAM. Typical values are 1T (one clock cycle) and 2T (two clock cycles). 1T will give you better performance but could cause instability. 2T is easier to get stability but with some loss in performance.


----------



## Julz2k

Hello guys, glad I have spotted this awesome Thread!

I bought new and really cheap, only 190Euro! DDR4 4400 B-Die from Patriot ( Patriot Viper Steel DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-4400, CL19-19-19-39 (PVS416G440C9K) )

I'm running them on a Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX. While the RAM is only listed on the qvl list with up to 3700 speed, the 4400 are running after a Bios update.

So far I only managed to run them stable at DDR4 4400 with bad timining, after a few hours trial and error, cause the xmp profile won't boot, I had to change a few settings - "to the worse".

The ram is pretty demanding for the correct voltage settings, I get errors in karhu with to much voltage really quick. Right now the ram runs stable at 1.41v (bios) and 1.45v (hwinfo)
VCCSA/IO Voltage both at 1.25v (bios) maybe I can go lower in the long run. Right now my system is on an open bench table so I won't have temperature problems.

Maybe you guys know some more stuff I can try out? I read a review this Patriot Ram would do 4700 at cl16, but I think he just got the best sample you could give to a reviewer, as other sites have not much luck over 4500.


----------



## gammagoat

CptSpig said:


> tRAS = tCL+tRCD+tRTP +/- 2 so I recommend changing tRAS to 38 because I don't want CR1 to fail because tRAS is to tight. tRAS will not impact speed substantially so best to loosen IMO.
> Command rate - is the delay (in clock cycles) between when chip select is asserted (i.e. the RAM is selected) and commands (i.e. Activate Row) can be issued to the RAM. Typical values are 1T (one clock cycle) and 2T (two clock cycles). 1T will give you better performance but could cause instability. 2T is easier to get stability but with some loss in performance.


ok not trying to be difficult here but the sum of those setting comes to 50, I'm at 28. So if I raise tRAS to fifty +-2 and I can get CR1 stable at these settings, will the performance gain be enough to offset loosening tRAS?

Here are my settings if you wouldn't mind taking a look.


----------



## CptSpig

gammagoat said:


> ok not trying to be difficult here but the sum of those setting comes to 50, I'm at 28. So if I raise tRAS to fifty +-2 and I can get CR1 stable at these settings, will the performance gain be enough to offset loosening tRAS?
> 
> Here are my settings if you wouldn't mind taking a look.


Your settings are 16 (tCL)+17 (tRCD)+6 (tRTP)=39. So I would try 38 for tRAS. Your secondary timings look really tight I would loosen them up a bit. I would say that's why CR1 will not work. Can you please put your build in your Sig.? Thanks


----------



## Falkentyne

gammagoat said:


> ok not trying to be difficult here but the sum of those setting comes to 50, I'm at 28. So if I raise tRAS to fifty +-2 and I can get CR1 stable at these settings, will the performance gain be enough to offset loosening tRAS?
> 
> Here are my settings if you wouldn't mind taking a look.


tWR should be 4x tRRD_S also.


----------



## gammagoat

CptSpig said:


> Your settings are 16 (tCL)+17 (tRCD)+6 (tRTP)=39. So I would try 38 for tRAS. Your secondary timings look really tight I would loosen them up a bit. I would say that's why CR1 will not work. Can you please put your build in your Sig.? Thanks


Thank you, IDK why rig can't be seen. So I'll drop this here, 
ram F4-3200C-8GRV
VDIMM 1.4572, SA 1.272, IO 1.264,
Hero-X
8700K @ 4.8 1.344 VCORE (COMPLETE POTATO)


I'll try what you suggest when it gets a little cooler.


----------



## kignt

SoldierRBT said:


> 4600MHz CL18 on a 3200C14 Trident Z RGB kit.


RTL and IOL for D0's are too far apart. Aiming for RTL <=2 apart, IOL <=1 apart. Assuming MRC fast boot is disabled, they might fix itself after power cycles or cold boot. Or check if these settings can boot without problem.

If want, manually set IOL to 6 or 7. Dram Timing Settings ---> Memory Training Algorithms ---> Round Trip Latency [Enable]. (from xSneak's post)
Trace Centering Enable. Probably will help. (from hamideteru's post)



Julz2k said:


> Hello guys, glad I have spotted this awesome Thread!
> 
> I bought new and really cheap, only 190Euro! DDR4 4400 B-Die from Patriot ( Patriot Viper Steel DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-4400, CL19-19-19-39 (PVS416G440C9K) )
> 
> I'm running them on a Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX. While the RAM is only listed on the qvl list with up to 3700 speed, the 4400 are running after a Bios update.
> 
> So far I only managed to run them stable at DDR4 4400 with bad timining, after a few hours trial and error, cause the xmp profile won't boot, I had to change a few settings - "to the worse".
> 
> The ram is pretty demanding for the correct voltage settings, I get errors in karhu with to much voltage really quick. Right now the ram runs stable at 1.41v (bios) and 1.45v (hwinfo)
> VCCSA/IO Voltage both at 1.25v (bios) maybe I can go lower in the long run. Right now my system is on an open bench table so I won't have temperature problems.
> 
> Maybe you guys know some more stuff I can try out? I read a review this Patriot Ram would do 4700 at cl16, but I think he just got the best sample you could give to a reviewer, as other sites have not much luck over 4500.


Similar RTL/IOL as above. Try starting from higher vccsa voltage like 1.25v and work down. Can probably lock down these timings circled in red and auto most others


----------



## SoldierRBT

kignt said:


> RTL and IOL for D0's are too far apart. Aiming for RTL <=2 apart, IOL <=1 apart. Assuming MRC fast boot is disabled, they might fix itself after power cycles or cold boot. Or check if these settings can boot without problem.
> 
> If want, manually set IOL to 6 or 7. Dram Timing Settings ---> Memory Training Algorithms ---> Round Trip Latency [Enable]. (from xSneak's post)
> Trace Centering Enable. Probably will help. (from hamideteru's post)


Thanks for taking your time to review my settings. I've made some changes on the timings. Let me know if they're okay to start testing.


----------



## kignt

SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks for taking your time to review my settings. I've made some changes on the timings. Let me know if they're okay to start testing.


tCKE is tight, usually see 6-7. But if it works, why not. Cold boots alright?


----------



## SoldierRBT

kignt said:


> SoldierRBT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for taking your time to review my settings. I've made some changes on the timings. Let me know if they're okay to start testing.
> 
> 
> 
> tCKE is tight, usually see 6-7. But if it works, why not. Cold boots alright?
Click to expand...

Had some cold boot issues when I changed RTL and IOL but I fixed it by adding a little more SA and IO voltage. Currently testing settings with Karhu Ram Test. I'll problably change tCKE to 6 to get more stability.


----------



## The Pook

If tCKE is stable at 4, just leave it. I'm at 4 and no issues here.


----------



## rv8000

I'm amazed how much better this c14 3200 kit is compared to my c3600 c17 kit. Booted 4400 with decent primaries right off the bat, can probably tighten a few more timings but I may just see how much I can pull voltages down for 24/7 at 4400 c17. Quick 20 min pass in memtest without any errors so I'll do some more testing once I'm not preoccupied with my new sub 

vdimm @ 1.47, vccio @ 1.24, vccsa 1.26


----------



## Cinderblocks

Like the post above, this is a another Patriot Viper 4133MHz kit that's real cheap right now at 1.5V on and also on a Phantom Gaming ITX. It seems allergic to tRCDtRP... is that a thing? My other option at this voltage is 17-20-20-43 which benches similarly


----------



## Julz2k

kignt said:


> Similar RTL/IOL as above. Try starting from higher vccsa voltage like 1.25v and work down. Can probably lock down these timings circled in red and auto most others
> [/quote]
> 
> 
> Thanks for the Input!
> My VCCSA is @1.25V as well as the VCCIO, it's just that Asrock messed up the board design, so VCCSA is always shown as stock voltage.
> 
> [quote]We discussed with HW RD and unfortunately, Z390 PG ITX didn’t reserve the correct circuit.
> 
> The issue of SA voltage is not accurate, we can’t solve it, sorry for that.
> [/quote]
> 
> I also tried [email protected] and [email protected] which runs semi stable so far, as shown in the first picture, I managed to get 4400 stable but only with low Vdimm @1.41v, then with [email protected] its only stable with 1.46v, I thought higher bandwith needs more vdimm and tighter timings with lower bandwith not so?
> 
> [email protected]@1.41v(Bios)
> 
> [email protected]@1.46v(Bios)
> 
> [email protected]@1.48-1.5v(Bios) errors, I don't manage to get 4200 run stable, don't matter if I higher the vdimm voltage or SA/IO Voltage, could it be that the ram get's to hot? Open Bench right now but no airflow @23°C room temperature, the heatspreader is hot, yeah but you don't burn your fingers on it.
> 
> [USER=480914]@Cinderblocks[/USER] yeah they're really cheap right now! I got the 4400 Kit and tRCDtRP runs @17 without problems for me or maybe I need to higher it like on your kit so I can run [email protected] I've to check it out.
> You're running the kit @1.5v in Bios or do you mean the voltage [USER=255069]@hwin[/USER]fo? I don't know what to trust, hwinfo sensor give me up to 0.4v higher values than the set value from Bios.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> I can do 4200MHZ, sometimes it'll pass GSAT, sometimes not, with all of the timings manually set except IOL's and RTLs, (Gigabyte BIOS can't set them).
> 
> Won't pass HCI or Ram Test though and I tried dialling down the cache, no go.


even at 2T? Right?


The Pook said:


> If tCKE is stable at 4, just leave it. I'm at 4 and no issues here.


 tCKE really is only used to enter the power-down dram state as far as I understand. I guess it could be set too low and result in a failed bank flush or burst? Never really seen any effect of this on "efficiency".


*And for anyone interested in a little light reading:*
https://www.systemverilog.io/understanding-ddr4-timing-parameters#introduction


----------



## xSneak

What is the DLLbwen setting in the asus bios? The only reference I see to it online is in a skylake ln2 overclocking guide. I can't seem to get my memory stable after it passed hci on some previous settings. 
Also curious if tWR always has to be 2x tRTP. I had 18 tWR and 8 tRtp which violates the rule, but it passed hci memtest mutiple times. I'm still trying to get my memory to pass now; it will throw 1-8 errors over 1800% coverage even though I have significantly lowered trefi and loosened twtr which were the last timings I adjusted....


----------



## moorhen2

xSneak said:


> What is the DLLbwen setting in the asus bios? The only reference I see to it online is in a skylake ln2 overclocking guide. I can't seem to get my memory stable after it passed hci on some previous settings.
> Also curious if tWR always has to be 2x tRTP. I had 18 tWR and 8 tRtp which violates the rule, but it passed hci memtest mutiple times. I'm still trying to get my memory to pass now; it will throw 1-8 errors over 1800% coverage even though I have significantly lowered trefi and loosened twtr which were the last timings I adjusted....


Could be voltages not timings/settings causing errors.


----------



## encrypted11

Elmor mentioned it's related to the IMC PLL in a DM.


----------



## Julz2k

Seems like my Kit has some heating problems, that's also one reason why I can't get 4300 stable @CL16. I've added a fan to my open bench table which blows onto the ram, it helped much as I could go down with the voltage but still could not get 4300 to run completely stable for at least 1000% @Karhu.

Right now I'm focusing on setting tight timings for the 4133 setting, so I can hopefully let the system run even on the hottest summer days.

Any thoughts on the config right now?


----------



## Jpmboy

Julz2k said:


> Seems like my Kit has some heating problems, that's also one reason why I can't get 4300 stable @CL16. I've added a fan to my open bench table which blows onto the ram, it helped much as I could go down with the voltage but still could not get 4300 to run completely stable for at least 1000% @*Karhu* .
> 
> Right now I'm focusing on setting tight timings for the 4133 setting, so I can hopefully let the system run even on the hottest summer days.
> 
> Any thoughts on the config right now?


lower tWR as far as you can before it fails to post, then +1 to it and test stability. It should be much closer to CAS and can usually be set lower than CAS, faw and tCWL.


----------



## centvalny

XMP settings @ 4933 strap


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> XMP settings @ 4933 strap


Nice!

So close 5g


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> That is Awesome. :thumb: When complete try CR1 but change tRAS to 38 it will not effect the speed. If good run Adia64 benchmark.



Thanks. Will do as soon as I have time! Been a busy work week! Ugh..


----------



## Julz2k

My results are getting better and better, I could also increase the bandwith from 4133 up to 4200 without loosing up the timings.

Do you guys know any more timings I could optimize?


I can't go lower with tCWL. I also tried running the kit @ 1T but sadly I could not even boot at 4000 so I haven't tested much longer.


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> lower tWR as far as you can before it fails to post, then +1 to it and test stability. It should be much closer to CAS and can usually be set lower than CAS, faw and tCWL.


Just curious when you mentioned here to lower tWR is it best to have this setting as low as you can or is it better to be closer to the tCL setting.I can get mine to boot as low 5,4 will not boot, and I am running 3833 16-15-15-36 cr1..I am learning memory tweaking and overclocking slowly and surely and I enjoy all your posts.I have picked up a lot from them.You truly are one of the best in the business..


----------



## davidm71

*Failure to post*



CptSpig said:


> That is Awesome. :thumb: When complete try CR1 but change tRAS to 38 it will not effect the speed. If good run Adia64 benchmark.


Hi,

Setting it to 1T command rate caused it not to post and I had to reset cmos. So don't think thats going to work.


----------



## Julz2k

If you're from Europe you can buy my RAM right now for 175 Euro (+10 euro shipping if you're outside of germany)
https://geizhals.de/patriot-viper-steel-dimm-kit-16gb-pvs416g440c9k-a1978524.html?hloc=de

Never seen DDR4 4400 so cheap and I bought my Kit for 190 Euro.


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Setting it to 1T command rate caused it not to post and I had to reset cmos. So don't think thats going to work.


You can probably get it to work but you would have to start over and relax timings. You have a stable OC now so enjoy. :thumb:


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> You can probably get it to work but you would have to start over and relax timings. You have a stable OC now so enjoy. :thumb:



Thanks. So instead of chasing 1T I set it at 16-16-16-38:


----------



## CptSpig

davidm71 said:


> Thanks. So instead of chasing 1T I set it at 16-16-16-38:


Looks Solid! Enjoy and go play some games.


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Just curious when you mentioned here to lower tWR is it best to have this setting as low as you can or is it better to be closer to the tCL setting.I can get mine to boot as low 5,4 will not boot, and I am running 3833 16-15-15-36 cr1..I am learning memory tweaking and overclocking slowly and surely and I enjoy all your posts.I have picked up a lot from them.You truly are one of the best in the business..


Really? 5? Amazing. I'd run it, measure performance and test stability. That's a low recovery time. CAn that kit run low tCWL also?


----------



## davidm71

CptSpig said:


> Looks Solid! Enjoy and go play some games.



I wish but whose got time


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> Really? 5? Amazing. I'd run it, measure performance and test stability. That's a low recovery time. CAn that kit run low tCWL also?


I just checked in the bios and its set at 4..ASRock Timing Config reports it as 5..tCWL will not boot any lower than 14 like it shows.When trying to set tCWL lower should MB memory training be turned back on.I tried to lower this yesterday but I have training off as we speak,or does it even matter.


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> I just checked in the bios and its set at 4..ASRock Timing Config reports it as 5..tCWL will not boot any lower than 14 like it shows.When trying to set tCWL lower should MB memory training be turned back on.I tried to lower this yesterday but I have training off as we speak,or does it even matter.


 yeah, ATC will do that. Do you have a copy of the ASUS memtweakit? JUst to double check? Good point - tCWL will "challenge" the RTLs, so I'd save the config and then enable the training, rtls/iols back to Auto, then drop tCWL until it fails to train. However, it may end up being a rabbit hole to get the RTLs as good as you have them *and *lower tCWL.
On my APex X I've been able to lower RDD_L and RDD_S to 5 and 3, and then lower tFAW to 12 (this is at 4500c16) which improved aid64 and an obscure memory/IPT thing I use.
what sticks are those? 

______________________________________________________
on another thing, this is still going strong. Not one x299 ram problem with 64GB at 4200c17
Two 3600c16 4x8GB kits


----------



## encrypted11

No further timing related tuning from my last CJR run

Just 2 Klevv Bolt X CJRs from a slightly older datecode that trained IOLs at 6/6 than 7/6, accompanied by better adaptive vCore stability from a custom BIOS ASRock sent on request with unlocked IA AC/DC Load Line at the lowest non-zero value in conjunction with modest LLC amounts and a 100MHz all core boost (50,50,49,49,48,48,48,48) vs. the previous run with stock IA AC/DC Load (1.6m Ohms) with LLC accompanied by wild VID stack fluctuations gave a near 1000MB/s copy improvement.


encrypted11--i79700K @50-48/4.3---Klevv KD48GU880-32A160T (Hynix CJR)----4000Mhz-C18-21-21-45-2T----VDIMM (BIOS) 1.41v---IO 1.07 (BIOS)---SA 1.11v (BIOS)---Stressapptest (WGSAT)----2 Hour


----------



## NIK1

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, ATC will do that. Do you have a copy of the ASUS memtweakit? JUst to double check? Good point - tCWL will "challenge" the RTLs, so I'd save the config and then enable the training, rtls/iols back to Auto, then drop tCWL until it fails to train. However, it may end up being a rabbit hole to get the RTLs as good as you have them *and *lower tCWL.
> On my APex X I've been able to lower RDD_L and RDD_S to 5 and 3, and then lower tFAW to 12 (this is at 4500c16) which improved aid64 and an obscure memory/IPT thing I use.
> what sticks are those?
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> on another thing, this is still going strong. Not one x299 ram problem with 64GB at 4200c17
> Two 3600c16 4x8GB kits


Two 8 gig sticks in my Z270 Apex IX of GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR .Well its a no dice with memory training on and dropping the tCWL to under 14.It did 6 long pause reboots and I stopped it at 6.Or would it take more than 6 to properly train.Let me know what you think...


----------



## fpssmoke

I've been setting timings and frequencies and then testing using the GSAT on tinylinux (found here: https://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?p=27955124), however, it's been passing with: stressapptest -W -M 15905 -m 8 -s 21600 --max_errors 1. Note that any number of errors does not qualify as passing by my measure even though the test will only quit if 2 errors are found. I have 16GB ram but only 15906MB available via the free command in linux command line. So essentially I'm testing all available system memory that isn't taken by the OS, and the OS is less than 100 MB ram usage. So some timings have passed as a result of 6 hour stressapptests, but when I took the passing timings to windows and used memtestpro, errors were showing in less than 10 minutes, using 8 instances of 1750 MB each to get about 94-95% usage. (Windows takes about 1.9GB on its own in my system). I had to loosen some timings to get stable via HCI Memtest and will now need to tune again using HCI instead of GSAT. So basically I lost many hours of stability testing as a result. I got mad respect for Raja but it seems that MemTestPro should be the gold standard for stability testing and other stress tests should be omitted from qualifying as being stable. Note that I haven't tried RAM test. Has anybody else experienced similar shortcomings with GSAT or other memory stress tests? And why is GSAT being suggested over HCI MemTestPro?


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Two 8 gig sticks in my Z270 Apex IX of GSkill TridentZ RGB F4-3600C16-8GTZR .Well its a no dice with memory training on and dropping the tCWL to under 14.It did 6 long pause reboots and I stopped it at 6.Or would it take more than 6 to properly train.Let me know what you think...


yeah, tCWL is already low at 14. You found the entrance to the rabbit hole. If tWR is stable at 4 (or 5?) run with it. Any improvement in AID score?


fpssmoke said:


> I've been setting timings and frequencies and then testing using the GSAT on tinylinux (found here: https://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?p=27955124), however, it's been passing with: stressapptest -W -M 15905 -m 8 -s 21600 --max_errors 1. Note that any number of errors does not qualify as passing by my measure even though the test will only quit if 2 errors are found. I have 16GB ram but only 15906MB available via the free command in linux command line. So essentially I'm testing all available system memory that isn't taken by the OS, and the OS is less than 100 MB ram usage. So some timings have passed as a result of 6 hour stressapptests, but when I took the passing timings to windows and used memtestpro, errors were showing in less than 10 minutes, using 8 instances of 1750 MB each to get about 94-95% usage. (Windows takes about 1.9GB on its own in my system). I had to loosen some timings to get stable via HCI Memtest and will now need to tune again using HCI instead of GSAT. So basically I lost many hours of stability testing as a result. I got mad respect for Raja but it seems that MemTestPro should be the gold standard for stability testing and other stress tests should be omitted from qualifying as being stable. Note that I haven't tried RAM test. Has anybody else experienced similar shortcomings with GSAT or other memory stress tests?* And why is GSAT being suggested over HCI MemTestPro*?


 Because it works.. and can handle high ram loads much better. 32 and 64GB on HCi are just too slow (days for 64GB). HCi loads the IMC/cache/IO much harder than GSAT, and most times a GSAT pass but HCi fail is more related to that than the ram timing set itself. Loosening timings reduced the load on the IMC (and therefore cache and IO), but better tuning of the CPU-based "participants" can resolve the GSAT pass, HCi fail observation. I would not cut it so close in windows since it has a habit of starting background apps at any time... 

If you feel compelled to have 100% of installed ram under load, then you need to use a portable OS like puppy linux or the one you used, or use the HCi bootable.


----------



## Deathscythes

@Jpmboy

Hey man, I have tried something really silly and mixed my 32GB of Trident Z Royal with my old kit of Trident Z RGB. Respectively 4400 CL 18 and 4266 CL 19.
While with 4 dimms 4000MHz CL19 would fail instantly in Ramtest at 1.5V, i stopped it at 1200% at 4200MHz CL 16.
So with 8 dimms it was actually more stable even though that configuration is rather exotic and not recommended to say the least xD

I am guessing it's because the board has a T topology.
However the thing is that the performance is actually terrible. doing 115GB/s in AIDA with tREFI maxed out. Terribly underwhelming. When running 8 dimms do you suffer from such underwhelming performance or is something really wrong on my side? 

Also while checking the timmings in the bios I noticed that some timings were not the same on all 4 channels... I take it that's not normal so i went ahead and filled in timings manually which resulted in a failure to POST.
What's your take on this? Do you think it's just because I use different kits? Thanks a lot man

EDIT: to put back some context (apologies) this is with a 7980XE on a RVIEO =)


----------



## kignt

Originally thought my config was limited to 3733 (2x16gb), older post, until tried working off more auto sub-timings. Able to boot and briefly bench 3866 15-15-15 1T, but will not pass tests. 16-17-17 passes tests. 

kignt -- i7 8700K @5.0/4.4, 2x16GB GS 3866 MT/s-C16-17-17-37-1T, 1.440v vdimm, 1.200v vccio, 1.250v vccsa (all in bios) ---GSAT 2 Hours---Karhu(cache enabled) 12800%---HCI 1000% --
Asrock z370 Taichi p3.40 -- G.Skill 3200 CL14 F4-3200C14D-32GTZ --

GSAT 44800 MBs, karhu-cache 175 MBs, 
Geekbench 4: single-memory 8358, multi-memory 9999
Geekbench 3: single-memory 7102, multi-memory 8229


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> Hey man, I have tried something really silly and mixed my 32GB of Trident Z Royal with my old kit of Trident Z RGB. Respectively 4400 CL 18 and 4266 CL 19.
> While with 4 dimms 4000MHz CL19 would fail instantly in Ramtest at 1.5V, i stopped it at 1200% at 4200MHz CL 16.
> So with 8 dimms it was actually more stable even though that configuration is rather exotic and not recommended to say the least xD
> 
> I am guessing it's because the board has a T topology.
> However the thing is that the performance is actually terrible. doing 115GB/s in AIDA with tREFI maxed out. Terribly underwhelming. When running 8 dimms do you suffer from such underwhelming performance or is something really wrong on my side?
> 
> Also while checking the timmings in the bios I noticed that some timings were not the same on all 4 channels... I take it that's not normal so i went ahead and filled in timings manually which resulted in a failure to POST.
> What's your take on this? Do you think it's just because I use different kits? Thanks a lot man
> 
> EDIT: to put back some context (apologies) this is with a 7980XE on a RVIEO =)


Impressive that it booted. Are all the sticks Samsung Bs? MIxing ICs is really bad, mixing binned sammys can work. POst up a timing config snip. are the RTLs OOW?
AID64 test below. 9900X/R6EO... 24/7 settings



kignt said:


> Originally thought my config was limited to 3733 (2x16gb), older post, until tried working off more auto sub-timings. Able to boot and briefly bench 3866 15-15-15 1T, but will not pass tests. 16-17-17 passes tests.
> 
> kignt -- i7 8700K @5.0/4.4, 2x16GB GS 3866 MT/s-C16-17-17-37-1T, 1.440v vdimm, 1.200v vccio, 1.250v vccsa (all in bios) ---GSAT 2 Hours---Karhu(cache enabled) 12800% --
> Asrock z370 Taichi p3.40 -- G.Skill 3200 CL14 F4-3200C14D-32GTZ --
> 
> GSAT 44800 MBs, karhu-cache 175 MBs,
> Geekbench 4: single-memory 8358, multi-memory 9999
> Geekbench 3: single-memory 7102, multi-memory 8229


Noice!!


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, tCWL is already low at 14. You found the entrance to the rabbit hole. If tWR is stable at 4 (or 5?) run with it. Any improvement in AID score?
> 
> If you feel compelled to have 100% of installed ram under load, then you need to use a portable OS like puppy linux or the one you used, or use the HCi bootable.


Hey @Jpmboy is this a pretty good latency for 4x8GB on a 9900k? I was upset I couldn't adjust the IOLs and RTLs on my Gigabyte board, but after messing with second and third timings I get this GSAT stable. 

I can do the tRDRWs etc. at 13-13-13-13 and can do the 7-4 timings at 6-4 but get quite a bit better AIDA benches at 7-4, 14-14-14-14 for some reason. :h34r-smi


----------



## Deathscythes

Jpmboy said:


> Impressive that it booted. Are all the sticks Samsung Bs? MIxing ICs is really bad, mixing binned sammys can work. POst up a timing config snip. are the RTLs OOW?
> AID64 test below. 9900X/R6EO... 24/7 settings


Much appreciated thanks man! 
Yes all sticks are B dies. What does OOW mean? ^^

Do you mind telling me what was the mesh clock for that run? I forgot to mention that mine is at 3.3GHz which seems stable at 1.17V which substancially impacts the results.
I would like to try at the same mesh speed as you for a more fair comparison.

Here is the Ramtest run I did :









I know 1200% isn't much but still, it's way better than insta-fail ahah
Also I was just looking for max stable frequency and CAS so other timings are loose.

Also sorry for the crappy picture, I just redid my place and everything isn't setup

The reason I am heavily underwhelmed by the 4200 MHz results is because this is what i was getting at 3800MHz CL14 








(cache readings are broken for some reason)

Thanks a lot man


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> Hey @*Jpmboy* is this a pretty good latency for 4x8GB on a 9900k? I was upset I couldn't adjust the IOLs and RTLs on my Gigabyte board, but after messing with second and third timings I get this GSAT stable.
> 
> I can do the tRDRWs etc. at 13-13-13-13 and can do the 7-4 timings at 6-4 but get quite a bit better AIDA benches at 7-4, 14-14-14-14 for some reason. :h34r-smi


Anywhere below 40ns is good. <35ns amazing.


Deathscythes said:


> Much appreciated thanks man!
> Yes all sticks are B dies. What does OOW mean? ^^
> 
> Do you mind telling me what was the mesh clock for that run? I forgot to mention that mine is at 3.3GHz which seems stable at 1.17V which substancially impacts the results.
> I would like to try at the same mesh speed as you for a more fair comparison.
> Here is the Ramtest run I did :
> I know 1200% isn't much but still, it's way better than insta-fail ahah
> Also I was just looking for max stable frequency and CAS so other timings are loose.
> Also sorry for the crappy picture, I just redid my place and everything isn't setup
> The reason I am heavily underwhelmed by the 4200 MHz results is because this is what i was getting at 3800MHz CL14
> (cache readings are broken for some reason)
> 
> Thanks a lot man


out of whack. the cache on this 9900X is at 3.2, core is at 4.7. Can't really do a fair comparison between a 10 core and 18 core with aid64


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> Anywhere below 40ns is good. <35ns amazing.
> 
> out of whack. the* cache on this 9900X is at 3.2, core is at 4.7.* Can't really do a fair comparison between a 10 core and 18 core with aid64


Hi,
Yep on 9940x I pushed to 3.2 also keeping it under 1.2v on mesh saw some okay results 
Think I used offset at +0.195 to be exact mesh voltage


----------



## Deathscythes

Jpmboy said:


> out of whack. the cache on this 9900X is at 3.2, core is at 4.7. Can't really do a fair comparison between a 10 core and 18 core with aid64


Yes absolutely. When I touch an RTL even to set the value it's already running at, it won't boot :/ The board just enters a cycle of reboots until finally booting in safe mode.
Do you know how to fix this? Thanks man!

Have you ever tried to run AIDA 64 memory benchark with those settings but only 4 dimms?
I ask that because in my case 8 dimms absolutely ruin the performance in that benchmark at the same settings. 
I would like to know if it's due to the fact that my sticks are different or that performance is severely reduced with 2 dimms per channel.
Thanks a lot for your time, as always this is much appreciated!


----------



## Robostyle

So, I'm testing OC now, 2x16Gb kit, tridentZ, 3600-16-16-16-36, fully stable, 200% HCI pass, games show stable FPS results, a little better 0.1, avg and max, 1% a little worse, but nothing drastical. 

Still, I feel some....stuttering, in half of games, if comparing to my previous 3200CL14 conf. For an instance, gtav. 3200CL14 - everything's smooth, 3600CL16 -smooth aswell, but whil cutscene, I see those microfreezes, literally couple of ms.
What can it be? Slight undervolt? IMC issues - 8700K + M10H? Trying every voltage, tuned some 2nd and 3rd timings - numbers only get better, microstutters - not.


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> Yes absolutely. When I touch an RTL even to set the value it's already running at, it won't boot :/ The board just enters a cycle of reboots until finally booting in safe mode.
> *Do you know how to fix this*? Thanks man!
> 
> *Have you ever tried to run AIDA 64 memory benchark with those settings but only 4 dimms*?
> I ask that because in my case 8 dimms absolutely ruin the performance in that benchmark at the same settings.
> I would like to know if it's due to the fact that my sticks are different or that performance is severely reduced with 2 dimms per channel.
> Thanks a lot for your time, as always this is much appreciated!


 do you have the physical MemOkay switch set to the off position?
Yes, I posted 1 kit data at 4000c16 some time ago (and 4 stick run 1T, 8 sticks prefer 2T)



Robostyle said:


> So, I'm testing OC now, 2x16Gb kit, tridentZ, 3600-16-16-16-36, fully stable, 200% HCI pass, games show stable FPS results, a little better 0.1, avg and max, 1% a little worse, but nothing drastical.
> 
> Still, I feel some....stuttering, in half of games, if comparing to my previous 3200CL14 conf. For an instance, gtav. 3200CL14 - everything's smooth, 3600CL16 -smooth aswell, but whil cutscene, I see those microfreezes, literally couple of ms.
> What can it be? Slight undervolt? IMC issues - 8700K + M10H? Trying every voltage, tuned some 2nd and 3rd timings - numbers only get better, microstutters - not.


 Ignore the numbers and use the settings that do not have the microstutter...? :blinksmil
Benchmarks are just benchmarks... they may not reflect what works best.


----------



## Deathscythes

Jpmboy said:


> do you have the physical MemOkay switch set to the off position?
> Yes, I posted 1 kit data at 4000c16 some time ago (and 4 stick run 1T, 8 sticks prefer 2T)


It was on "ON" switched it off, and it fixed the reboot loop. Thank you!
However whenever I set a value to an RTL it fails with Qcode 53  I don't get it...

Did you do anything special to run past 3800MHz stable?
4000MHz always fails with 4 dimms.
Btw do you believe it is normal to lose a severe amount of performance in AIDA when going from 4 sticks to 8 sticks and running the same timing? I lose 10GB/s for read.
I am willing to buy another kit if allows me run 4200 CL 16 stable however I am definitely not going to do it if the performance is crippled by the simple fact of running 2 dimms per channel.

Regarding what you said earlier, why Skylake X HCC and Skylake X LCC can't be compared? Are they really that different? I would think that the only difference would be the latency between cores but not much more than that.

Thanks a lot man =)


----------



## KedarWolf

A new version of AIDA64 been released. But getting the exact same numbers in the memory and cache test.

I'm pretty sure it basically just adds support for newer CPU's etc.


----------



## KedarWolf

Deathscythes said:


> It was on "ON" switched it off, and it fixed the reboot loop. Thank you!
> However whenever I set a value to an RTL it fails with Qcode 53  I don't get it...
> 
> Did you do anything special to run past 3800MHz stable?
> 4000MHz always fails with 4 dimms.
> Btw do you believe it is normal to lose a severe amount of performance in AIDA when going from 4 sticks to 8 sticks and running the same timing? I lose 10GB/s for read.
> I am willing to buy another kit if allows me run 4200 CL 16 stable however I am definitely not going to do it if the performance is crippled by the simple fact of running 2 dimms per channel.
> 
> Regarding what you said earlier, why Skylake X HCC and Skylake X LCC can't be compared? Are they really that different? I would think that the only difference would be the latency between cores but not much more than that.
> 
> Thanks a lot man =)


I think the best way to set IOL's and RTL's is lower the IOL Offset, see what they are after, then manually set the timings with what they are leaving the IOL Offset changed. Had to do that on my Asus boards or wouldn't boot. 

Here, a guide.

Edit: I think @Jpmboy said you can leave the Rank 1's on Auto though.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-765.html#post27730832


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> It was on "ON" switched it off, and it fixed the reboot loop. Thank you!
> However whenever I set a value to an RTL it fails with Qcode 53  I don't get it...
> 
> Did you do anything special to run past 3800MHz stable?
> 4000MHz always fails with 4 dimms.
> Btw do you believe it is normal to lose a severe amount of performance in AIDA when going from 4 sticks to 8 sticks and running the same timing? I lose 10GB/s for read.
> I am willing to buy another kit if allows me run 4200 CL 16 stable however I am definitely not going to do it if the performance is crippled by the simple fact of running 2 dimms per channel.
> 
> Regarding what you said earlier, why Skylake X HCC and Skylake X LCC can't be compared? Are they really that different? I would think that the only difference would be the latency between cores but not much more than that.
> 
> Thanks a lot man =)


 Follow KW's method. Remember, you are mixing two different bin kits (right?) the mix may never be able to run RTLs that would make sense for two kits with the same SKUs. First see what the kits can do, then once you have a stable base to build on, then try manual. The memokay switch disables the automatic frequency and timing search. When it is disabled, training is still functioning.
lol - YOU may need to do something special to get 4000 or higher mixing 2 different SKUs.


----------



## amd955be5670

I've got an 2x8G kit rated for 3000 C16-18, Micron B-Die. It really is a horrible clocker. Doesn't like voltage. Even 1.5V C18 3200mhz doesn't POST. The board is Asrock Z370 Fatality K6.

The only thing I could do is bring down the tRFC from 673 to 350, and Command Rate to 1T.

All the results here, make me really jelly. Maybe I really should buy a 2x16 b-die kit. I hate the RAM is the only "auto-tinkered" part of my build.


----------



## the_real_7

Hey guys working on my set my Trident Z RGB F4-4000C17D-16GTZR which is not as nice yet as my 3600 cl 15 set @4000mhz. so started by lowering my trfc from 700 to 520 , and I started getting errors at 600% so I raised 9900k from VCCSA 1.25v & VCCIO 1.20v to VCCSA 1.25v & VCCIO 1.25v and vdimm to 1.4200 now getting to 1486% and then getting errors. is there any more recommended tuning anyone can recommend so I can get better speed and more stable with these sticks ?


----------



## Jpmboy

the_real_7 said:


> Hey guys working on my set my Trident Z RGB F4-4000C17D-16GTZR which is not as nice yet as my 3600 cl 15 set @4000mhz. so started by lowering my trfc from 700 to 520 , and I started getting errors at 600% so I raised 9900k from VCCSA 1.25v & VCCIO 1.20v to VCCSA 1.25v & VCCIO 1.25v and vdimm to 1.4200 now getting to 1486% and then getting errors. is there any more recommended tuning anyone can recommend so I can get better speed and more stable with these sticks ?


Turn off the RGB if you have not yet, then once you get the kit dialed in switch them on and see if it all holds together... IME, the 3600c15 kits are a better binined IC than many of their higher freq SKUs. (3200c14 is another).


----------



## Deathscythes

KedarWolf said:


> I think the best way to set IOL's and RTL's is lower the IOL Offset, see what they are after, then manually set the timings with what they are leaving the IOL Offset changed. Had to do that on my Asus boards or wouldn't boot.
> 
> Here, a guide.
> 
> Edit: I think @Jpmboy said you can leave the Rank 1's on Auto though.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-765.html#post27730832


Alright, I'll try that. Much appreciated!



Jpmboy said:


> Follow KW's method. Remember, you are mixing two different bin kits (right?) the mix may never be able to run RTLs that would make sense for two kits with the same SKUs. First see what the kits can do, then once you have a stable base to build on, then try manual. The memokay switch disables the automatic frequency and timing search. When it is disabled, training is still functioning.
> lol - YOU may need to do something special to get 4000 or higher mixing 2 different SKUs.


Ah sorry I guess my little story was a tad bit unclear 
When running 4 dimms, I don't mix bins. It's 4 4400 CL 18 dimms trident z royal.
With that configuration I can't figure out how to run 4000MHz stable regardless of the timings whereas I can run 3800 14 16 14 28 CR1 stable.

Here is where it gets stupidly weird. Mixing that kit with 4 dimms of 4266 CL19 Allowed to reach 1200% of coverage (I aborted) with Ramtest in 4200 CL 16 2T whereas it would fail instantly with only 4 dimms.
However the performance in AIDA 64 with 4200 CL16 is far inferior to what i was able to get when running 4 dimms in 3800 CL 14.
Running 8 dimms in 3800 CL14 results in significantly lower performance than when i run only 4 with the same timings.

With identical timings and clocks, do you believe I would see a performance drop if i were to use 8 dimms of the same bin compared to 4 dimms? If not then I'll just get 4 more dimms of the same bin. Otherwise if the performance drop is due to the mere fact of using 2 dimms per channel then I am more interest into finding a way to run 4000MHz with 4 dimms.

I hope this clarifies =)


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> Alright, I'll try that. Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> Ah sorry I guess my little story was a tad bit unclear
> When running 4 dimms, I don't mix bins. It's 4 4400 CL 18 dimms trident z royal.
> With that configuration I can't figure out how to run 4000MHz stable regardless of the timings whereas I can run 3800 14 16 14 28 CR1 stable.
> 
> Here is where it gets stupidly weird. Mixing that kit with 4 dimms of 4266 CL19 Allowed to reach 1200% of coverage (I aborted) with Ramtest in 4200 CL 16 2T whereas it would fail instantly with only 4 dimms.
> However the performance in AIDA 64 with 4200 CL16 is far inferior to what i was able to get when running 4 dimms in 3800 CL 14.
> Running 8 dimms in 3800 CL14 results in significantly lower performance than when i run only 4 with the same timings.
> 
> *With identical timings and clocks, do you believe I would see a performance drop if i were to use 8 dimms of the same bin compared to 4 dimms?* If not then I'll just get 4 more dimms of the same bin. Otherwise if the performance drop is due to the mere fact of using 2 dimms per channel then I am more interest into finding a way to run 4000MHz with 4 dimms.
> 
> I hope this clarifies =)


no. BUt 8 single sided dimms may need 2T at 4000 or 4200. 4x8GB at 4000c161T on my R6EO had a slightly higher AID read score than 8x8GB 64GB 4200c172T. I'd (we'd) have to see the timings of that 4200c16 mix 8 dimm thing you had there. I suspect the lower AID score is due to some (stable to ramtest) timing clashes, leading to very low efficiency. Can't tell much without seeing the data/timings.


----------



## Deathscythes

Jpmboy said:


> no. BUt 8 single sided dimms may need 2T at 4000 or 4200. 4x8GB at 4000c161T on my R6EO had a slightly higher AID read score than 8x8GB 64GB 4200c172T. I'd (we'd) have to see the timings of that 4200c16 mix 8 dimm thing you had there. I suspect the lower AID score is due to some (stable to ramtest) timing clashes, leading to very low efficiency. Can't tell much without seeing the data/timings.


Thanks a lot for the clarification, here are the timings I have tested in aida (no screenshot of aida but read was 115 GB/s):









And here is what I score with 4 dimms at 3800MHz with a few timings tweaked, nonetheless I believe quite tightly. This survived 1600% of HCI.









If I understand correctly going from 1T to 2T already has a significant impact on the performance. And on top of that due to my weird configuration it's likely that I am experiencing timing "clashes" ?
Any specific timing that tend to clash more than others? If you look at my picture you can see that the RTL's are - I believe - incoherent as sticks of a same channel are not timed the same. Can that be a cause of performance issue? 

Thank you very much!


----------



## the_real_7

Jpmboy said:


> Turn off the RGB if you have not yet, then once you get the kit dialed in switch them on and see if it all holds together... IME, the 3600c15 kits are a better binined IC than many of their higher freq SKUs. (3200c14 is another).



Thanks Jpmboy turned off the led today and going to do a 6 hour run tonight. so you think that may effect my vdimm cause it uses same voltage but what about VCCSA 1.25v & VCCIO 1.25v should I keep raising ? right now my cache is at stock. My 3600 cl15 do great but they are 2019 set My 3600 cl16 set from 2017 runs 3200 14 scaled all the way up to 4000 16cl with stock vdimm. you may be wondering why then the rgb set lol. Hopefully I can get this set to be a little faster but it seems for latency [email protected] cl15 get the best all around system scores or my sub timings are really bad


----------



## Deathscythes

the_real_7 said:


> Thanks Jpmboy turned off the led today and going to do a 6 hour run tonight. so you think that may effect my vdimm cause it uses same voltage but what about VCCSA 1.25v & VCCIO 1.25v should I keep raising ? right now my cache is at stock. My 3600 cl15 do great but they are 2019 set My 3600 cl16 set from 2017 runs 3200 14 scaled all the way up to 4000 16cl with stock vdimm. you may be wondering why then the rgb set lol. Hopefully I can get this set to be a little faster but it seems for latency [email protected] cl15 get the best all around system scores or my sub timings are really bad


I'll try that as well, also I would recommend checking the dimm temps. My dimms get unstable once they pass 40°C or so. Having a fan on them helped me tremendously keeping them at 35°C - without it they were reaching 60°C.


----------



## the_real_7

Deathscythes said:


> I'll try that as well, also I would recommend checking the dimm temps. My dimms get unstable once they pass 40°C or so. Having a fan on them helped me tremendously keeping them at 35°C - without it they were reaching 60°C.


 I never thought of temps Ive never checked when stressing memory but under normal conditions I'm running 30c but i hear bdie becomes unstable somewhere from 45c to 50c. but i will look at tonight.


----------



## gammagoat

I'm curious about the relationship between Ram and L3, it looks like if you lower ram latency enough L3 begins to lower also. Yet this doesn't happen with L2 or L1, anybody have an explanation?


----------



## Zemach

Aida Test 5162 Ram 3600 Cl 16 1.35 RGB
Cooling
CPU Water cooling custom + air 16c Ram stock


----------



## NIK1

When Overclocking your memory is it best to have the Highest-Read-Write and Copy Speeds like what Aida64 Memory benchmark shows.Or is it better to have the Lowest Latency score.Which out of the two is King.I imagine its the speeds,am I correct or wrong about this.I have been playing around with 4000 OC on my Z270 Apex MB and the best I can boot and stable is 18-17-17-39 2N.For the life of me I tried to get TCL to 17 with no luck and also tried to get 1N but it was no dice.Out of my 2 stable OC's 3866 and 4000,which of these 2 would you run as your 24/7 OC.Both run with about the same juice..3866 needs 1.47v Dram,1.25v IO and 1.25v SA.The 4000 needs a touch more to be stable,1.48v Dram,1.25v IO,and 1.27v SA.


----------



## Jpmboy

it really depends on what the rig will be used for. First, in any use you will not notice/feel any difference between the two settings you posted. Some (say) gaming benefits from lower latency, but again, we're talking 60ns vs 30 or 40ns and maybe you can detect a difference in games (twitch gaming)... maybe. Some production work flows really benefit from high bandwidth, but in that scenario, quad channel or higher is the way to go. Dual channel just cannot keep pace in bandwidth. Ideally tune to the lowest latency possible with the highest bandwidth that's stable with the components... duh, right?


----------



## ktoonsez

Decided to grab these at my local store because they had a massive sale and could not resist. Anybody have that kit and have some recommendations? All I have been able to get stable is loading the XMP profile and them up'ing to 3400mhz (no other changes made). Changed DRAM voltage to 1.4. Did not realize how slow these were and now kind of stuck with them (kind of funny, my 5 year old rig with 5960X has memory benchmarks almost 20GB faster than this kit). Any recommended tweaks would be great.

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Dominator-Platinum-3200MHz-Desktop/dp/B01BGZEWO2

CPU: i9-9900k @5GHZ Uncore @4.7
MB: MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Edge AC


----------



## The Pook

interesting video, (fairly) aggressive Micron E-Die @ 4266 CL17 could care less about RAM temps being >60c. Just thought it was interesting since a lot of people here claim issues (granted with B-Die) @ > ~45c.


----------



## That_1_Hz_Extra

Playing with the secundairy system.. This little ITX board does an amazingly easy job, so easy to overclock. First Asrock product I ever bought and definately will be on my to-look-out-for on future purchases.
I could get 4266Mhz/4300Mhz on memory, but it would require extra voltage. Dram is now at 1.43V and IO/SA both at 1.22V. Only downside I find is that HWinfo64 does not read all sensors correctly, just a minor 'issue' I think.
As GPU it has a Gigabyte GTX980Ti G1 card and all is powered by an oldy first gen Corsair HX1000.


----------



## That_1_Hz_Extra

The Pook said:


> interesting video, (fairly) aggressive Micron E-Die @ 4266 CL17 could care less about RAM temps being >60c. Just thought it was interesting since a lot of people here claim issues (granted with B-Die) @ > ~45c.



Yeah but he didn't test with memory tuned in that well. If we overclock memory and tighten the timings as much we can we seek out the border of stability. It can be stable within a certain temp and outside of that throw an error randomly. People who get errors are usually testing for hours and hours at a time and seem to get an error from a rather specific moment in time / test percentage. 

I think the idea is nice but should be worked out better rather than a quick test.


----------



## Middleman

*Quad channel X299 32gb F4-3600C16-8GTZSW*

Hey folks, 



Been working on lowering latency - dropped from 61.X to 56.Xns


Not sure if i can get it any lower @4000mhz


VCCIO: 1.20 @ 1.216
VCCSA: 1.2 @1.248
DIMM ABCD 1.4 @1.408


DDR4 3600mhz @ 4000mhz CL16-17-17-37 CR2


Mem Read: 104487 MB/s
Mem Write: 102177 MB/s
Mem Copy: 86239 MB/s
Mem Latency: 56.X ns


----------



## Middleman

*Quad channel X299 32gb F4-3600C16-8GTZSW*

So looks like i was able to make some progress in improving my numbers. : )


Big Ups for getting 1T to finally run and feel it may have been related to tightening the secondary timings.


32gb F4-3600C16-8GTZSW @ 4000mhz 16-16-16-1T 401


Working towards reducing latency - feel like TRFC is the only value that really made a difference. Cl17 to 16 and 1T had no effect.


However my copy rates are now 94408 MB/s and that was also a milestone - close enough to 100,000 MB/s for me


Latency is now sitting at 53.x @ first pass/second pass


Lastly, i was able to drop my voltages as well.
VCCIO: 1.17 @ 1.184
VCCSA: 1.17 @ 1.216
DIMM ABCD 1.4 @1.408 [ Was 1.45 earlier during testing ]


----------



## Deathscythes

The Pook said:


> interesting video, (fairly) aggressive Micron E-Die @ 4266 CL17 could care less about RAM temps being >60c. Just thought it was interesting since a lot of people here claim issues (granted with B-Die) @ > ~45c.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeHEtULQg3Q


From what I can gather it's a B die thing. To illustrate the claim yesterday I was playing the Wither 3 for a while no issue. Then I crashed... I checked the dimms they were at 50°C. I restarted the game and a few minutes later it crashed again. I retried but this time with fans blowing on the dimms. No issue what so ever.

Same in HCI, if I don't turn on the fans I get errors very quickly, if I do however, it runs fine. Depending on how aggressive the OC is the impact of temps varies. When running 3800 14 16 14 28 1T, the moment the dimms reach somewhere between 40 and 42°C I start getting errors.


----------



## Martin778

Yep, B-Die gets tricky above 42-45*C.


----------



## ktoonsez

Man I am still struggling to get any kind of OC out of my RAM, currently trying 3466Mhz and not changing any timings at all. Read thru the last 80 pages or so to catch up on z390 info. PC always boots but fails on memtest within 2 minutes almost every time. Been messing with VDIMM/VCCIO/VCCSA in the following ways:

CPU: i9-9900k @4.8 Ghz Uncore @4.3
MB: MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Edge AC


VDIMM = 1.36 thru 1.45v in .01 increments.
VCCIO = Auto (this skyrockets it to 1.31), then did 1.21 thru 1.23 in increments of .005
VCCSA =Auto (this skyrockets it to 1.315), then did 1.20 thru 1.3 in increments of .005

Link to my post from above:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-945.html#post27977012


Any incite as to what I am not doing right would be great.


----------



## Martin778

Currently testing:










Also, I'm now trying DW's version 4.0 of the memtest combined with the newest HCL memtest. Is it true that it's like 5 times faster than DW 2.5?!?! Version 2.5 took roughly 20-25 minutes for a single 100% pass, the newest one does it in 4 minutes flat.


----------



## Falkentyne

Martin778 said:


> Currently testing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I'm now trying DW's version 4.0 of the memtest combined with the newest HCL memtest. Is it true that it's like 5 times faster than DW 2.5?!?! Version 2.5 took roughly 20-25 minutes for a single 100% pass, the newest one does it in 4 minutes flat.


Where do you even get 4.0?
Google shows no help at all.

*Edit*
Found a "runmemtest 4.0", but it says "sorry, gigabyte motherboards are not supported".

What....


----------



## Neo_Morpheus

Hello everyone. I've had some time to read through the thread and give my timings a go. Tightening up everything made multi-core processing heat right up so I dropped my OC on my CPU to 5.2Ghz from 5.3Ghz for lower voltage, still gained 10% increase in Geekbench multi-core score and it stayed about the same for the single core. The write recovery time might be a little high at 13 compared to other members timings, as well as the latency at around 40ns looks fairly average, imagining getting the Apex now. 

Also, VCCIO 1.22v, VCCSA 1.22v, DRAM 1.47v, I've always kept it about there, could probably try and lower it a little.


----------



## Martin778

Falkentyne said:


> Where do you even get 4.0?
> Google shows no help at all.
> 
> *Edit*
> Found a "runmemtest 4.0", but it says "sorry, gigabyte motherboards are not supported".
> 
> What....


Here: https://mega.nz/#!ZA9xQYbS!FuS74BQwKXzdTM8pqzfhYQY2dz4l58LjxOT7PLiktvE
You then need to download HCI memtest from the official site: https://hcidesign.com/memtest/ and place the memtest exe file in the same folter as the DangWang exe.

Keep in mind - the v4.0 is counting the percantage wrong, it's x10. compared to what the memtest windows will show so if you want to cover 100%, you need 1000% in the DangWang window.


----------



## Jpmboy

Neo_Morpheus said:


> Hello everyone. I've had some time to read through the thread and give my timings a go. Tightening up everything made multi-core processing heat right up so I dropped my OC on my CPU to 5.2Ghz from 5.3Ghz for lower voltage, still gained 10% increase in Geekbench multi-core score and it stayed about the same for the single core. The write recovery time might be a little high at 13 compared to other members timings, as well as the latency at around 40ns looks fairly average, imagining getting the Apex now.
> 
> Also, VCCIO 1.22v, VCCSA 1.22v, DRAM 1.47v, I've always kept it about there, could probably try and lower it a little.


that looks real good for 2 sticks on the Max11E! :thumb:





Martin778 said:


> Here: https://mega.nz/#!ZA9xQYbS!FuS74BQwKXzdTM8pqzfhYQY2dz4l58LjxOT7PLiktvE
> You then need to download HCI memtest from the official site: https://hcidesign.com/memtest/ and place the memtest exe file in the same folter as the DangWang exe.
> 
> Keep in mind - the v4.0 is counting the percantage wrong, it's x10. compared to what the memtest windows will show so if you want to cover 100%, you need 1000% in the DangWang window.


can you guys keep this dangwang thing off this thread please. It basically robs the author of HCi memtest. It's stuff like this that really discourages anyone from writing such useful code. Spend the $5 and get HCi Pro.


----------



## Middleman

Hey does anyone own this kit, or had a chance to test with it? [Trident Z Royal] F4-3200C14Q2-64GTR*

64GB Rated @ 3200mhz 14-14-14-34 - Wondering if anyone can hit 4ghz 17-17-17 with these, or what the best speed timings are.


----------



## That_1_Hz_Extra

Jpmboy said:


> can you guys keep this dangwang thing off this thread please. It basically robs the author of HCi memtest. It's stuff like this that really discourages anyone from writing such useful code. Spend the $5 and get HCi Pro.



Why? I have payed for my pro version, this is a time saving tool that works with it. Don't see them getting robbed while handing out free versions either.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf - i9 9900K 5.1GHz/4.7GHz - 4x8GB CL16 Trident Z 3600 non-RGB @ 4200MHz-C17-17-17-38-2T 1.44v - SA 1.26v - VCCIO 1.25v - HCI 400%


----------



## Martin778

What would be the expected frequency for a 2x16GB B-Die kit on a top-end motherboard like the Z390 Apex or Dark?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Does anyone have 4600 CL17 stable overclock that can share? Mine is stable on Ramtest but can't get it stable on HCI Memtest. Tried IO/SA 1.35v-1.40v but doesn't help much.


----------



## swddeluxx

Same 4600 CL17 Ram Settings with 9900K but with 

DRAM Voltage [1.5000] *in Bios
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.25000] *in Bios
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.33750] *in Bios

test it *SoldierRBT* :rolleyess


----------



## Jpmboy

That_1_Hz_Extra said:


> Why? I have payed for my pro version, this is a time saving tool that works with it. Don't see them getting robbed while handing out free versions either.


 Good to know you bought the pro version... then you don;t need dangwang (cause it works with the free version too - right?) Them? It's a guy.
Use Memtest Pro Launcher. Put it in the Pro folder and enjoy.


----------



## Jpmboy

Middleman said:


> Hey does anyone own this kit, or had a chance to test with it? [Trident Z Royal] F4-3200C14Q2-64GTR*
> 
> 64GB Rated @ 3200mhz 14-14-14-34 - Wondering if anyone can hit 4ghz 17-17-17 with these, or what the best speed timings are.


what board and cpu? See post #9409


----------



## owikh84

What's wrong with DW RunMemtestPro? 
It's just a launcher, put PAID Memtest Pro inside and it makes thing easier.


----------



## Martin778

I get his point, with free memtest you have to start multiple instances to fill all RAM where the paid version can do it at once and Dangwang's exe does just that therefore making the paid version unneccessary.


----------



## munternet

Paid versions do help to keep free software up to date and malware free


----------



## KedarWolf




----------



## vmanuelgm

Deathscythes said:


> It was on "ON" switched it off, and it fixed the reboot loop. Thank you!
> However whenever I set a value to an RTL it fails with Qcode 53  I don't get it...
> 
> Did you do anything special to run past 3800MHz stable?
> 4000MHz always fails with 4 dimms.
> Btw do you believe it is normal to lose a severe amount of performance in AIDA when going from 4 sticks to 8 sticks and running the same timing? I lose 10GB/s for read.
> I am willing to buy another kit if allows me run 4200 CL 16 stable however I am definitely not going to do it if the performance is crippled by the simple fact of running 2 dimms per channel.
> 
> Regarding what you said earlier, why Skylake X HCC and Skylake X LCC can't be compared? Are they really that different? I would think that the only difference would be the latency between cores but not much more than that.
> 
> Thanks a lot man =)



Rampage Omega here and same behaviour, u touch the RTL's the mobo won't boot, big disgrace!!! Waiting for the big fankid number one here to give a solution to this apart from disabling Memok which doesn't work, xDDDD

I miss Shamino and some others, too much j... right now!!!

Expecting also a new bios for this board, if Asus doesn't forget it and focus on the new x299g, xDDDD


----------



## Deathscythes

del


----------



## Deathscythes

vmanuelgm said:


> Rampage Omega here and same behaviour, u touch the RTL's the mobo won't boot, big disgrace!!! Waiting for the big fankid number one here to give a solution to this apart from disabling Memok which doesn't work, xDDDD
> 
> I miss Shamino and some others, too much j... right now!!!
> 
> Expecting also a new bios for this board, if Asus doesn't forget it and focus on the new x299g, xDDDD


This board is making me nuts. I am super happy about the VRM, pushed my 7980XE to 5GHz on all cores but when it comes to memory, it's just infuriating.
I see that have 4000MHz running, do you remember doing anything special to make it work? is it with 4 dimms?
4000 MHz is absolutely no go for me... Which makes no sense because I managed 3800 CL 14 with 2 different kits already. 4000MHz CL 19 2T won't work. Something must be tuned like trash past 3800 MHz with 4 dimms but I have no clue what it is.... at some point it reached 1200% (i know it's not much) coverage in ramtest with 4000 CL 15. the day after it systematically fails at 7% regardless of how loose the timings are, I am absolutely losing my mind.
I have cleared CMOS a billion times already, any suggestion? =)


----------



## Martin778

Buy EVGA Dark?  
Seriously these boards devaluate the second you click on "place order", no one wants second hand X299 stuff so you might get lucky. I've sold mine last year for 50% of the price after like 2 months of use.


----------



## Deathscythes

Martin778 said:


> Buy EVGA Dark?
> Seriously these boards devaluate the second you click on "place order", no one wants second hand X299 stuff so you might get lucky. I've sold mine last year for 50% of the price after like 2 months of use.


It's an aesthetic ROG build - no place for evga in it except for the PSU =)


----------



## vmanuelgm

Deathscythes said:


> This board is making me nuts. I am super happy about the VRM, pushed my 7980XE to 5GHz on all cores but when it comes to memory, it's just infuriating.
> I see that have 4000MHz running, do you remember doing anything special to make it work? is it with 4 dimms?
> 4000 MHz is absolutely no go for me... Which makes no sense because I managed 3800 CL 14 with 2 different kits already. 4000MHz CL 19 2T won't work. Something must be tuned like trash past 3800 MHz with 4 dimms but I have no clue what it is.... at some point it reached 1200% (i know it's not much) coverage in ramtest with 4000 CL 15. the day after it systematically fails at 7% regardless of how loose the timings are, I am absolutely losing my mind.
> I have cleared CMOS a billion times already, any suggestion? =)



Clearly something is going wrong in bios in regards to memory, since the board trains with certain RTLs and after powering off another ones come up!!!

I am right now gsat stable with these settings after long research:










Sometimes it will boot up with RTLs 61 63 61 63 8 8 8 8, sometimes with 61 63 61 61 8 8 8 6, but in both cases stable.

1.43v in Dram and 0.950 in Agent and 1.05v in VCCIO.


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> It's an aesthetic ROG build - no place for evga in it except for the PSU =)


here bud. Enter the primary timings shown below (yes, 17s. once you get something to cooperate, you can try 16). set ram freq to 4000. If th sticks are LED, switch off in bios and then in Aura if the sticks are still lit. USe 1.45V VDIMM, 1.075V VCCIO (1.13 to 1.15V for 64GB of ram), and stay under 0.9V for VSA. Memokay switch off. Dram clock period to 13 and disable TATO (as in attachment pc). I had to adjust vccio for a whike until the RTLs stabilized as shown. Otherwise I was getting an occasional 63 -> 65 and an IOL of 10. Once I got the VCCIO right, I have not seen that occur again. If that works, 4200 is within reach. If the stick are getting tp 40-ish degrees during testing, it's likely to fail, and when it does, the RTLs will/can get f-d up on the hot reboot. I just pit the R6EO in a Lian Lan 011 dynamic case... squeezed 3 360 rads in there with 2 2080Tis. Works but the fans begin to howl once the loop hits 30C. Airflow management is just not working. Everything is quiet if I QDC in a Koolance ERM-#K#U (copper) cooler. I need to post a pic.


----------



## KedarWolf

vmanuelgm said:


> Rampage Omega here and same behaviour, u touch the RTL's the mobo won't boot, big disgrace!!! Waiting for the big fankid number one here to give a solution to this apart from disabling Memok which doesn't work, xDDDD
> 
> I miss Shamino and some others, too much j... right now!!!
> 
> Expecting also a new bios for this board, if Asus doesn't forget it and focus on the new x299g, xDDDD


How to set RTLs and it'll boot.


https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-765.html#post27730832


----------



## Martin778

So I have pretty much the quickest 2x8 kit from Gskill atm, 2x8 4600C18 GTZR...would it be worthwile to jump on 2x16 but weaker, like 3200c14 / 4000c19 and tinker with it? I want the Royal Gold's to upswag the Z390 Dark.


----------



## Blameless

mattliston said:


> if tWR stands for write recovery time, I generally make sure it is same as CAS or up to +7, making sure it is an even number. So if example, CAS was 12, max would be 18, not 19.


It usually defaults to tRTP * 2 and can be quite a bit lower than CAS on some ICs at some clocks.

I can run tWR of eight with perfect (as far as I am able to divine) stability on my old Micron stuff at 2667, for example, while CAS won't POST lower than 12.


----------



## munternet

Maximus X Hero
8700k @ 5.229GHz no AVX offset
4 x 8GB F4-4400C19-8GTZ (2 double sets) @ 17-18-18-39 4220 MHz (4400 MHz can run windows ok but errors hard in testing)
DRAM 1.44v
VCCIO 1.225v
VCCSA 1.2375v
BCLK 100.5

XMP base settings with modifications.

Passed memtest86 test 6 multiple tests
Prime95 26.6
minFFT-512k maxFFT-4096k
24576 for 32GB

Scored 1732 in cinebench R15

I tried a few of the things I found in this thread but didn't manage much more performance.
Open to suggestions or comments


----------



## vmanuelgm

KedarWolf said:


> How to set RTLs and it'll boot.
> 
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-765.html#post27730832



Thanks for the effort, but no latency offset parameter in the Omega.

U can change the IOL's and boot, but Omega will override what u select.


----------



## Jpmboy

too much v.... here lately, contributes nothing. I think I'll focus elsewhere like the rest.
l


----------



## robertr1

What are safe voltage to run on B-Die and 9900k 24/7?

Currently vccio/sa @ 1.280v
DRAM @ 1.5v

Air cooling. Is that long term degradation territory?


----------



## Martin778

Not really, stock XMP 4400+ pumps more into VCCIO/SA. The problem will be maintaining memtest stability as B-die's get unstable above ~40*C therefore you might keep tweaking voltages to no end and finally it's the temperature that's the culprit.


----------



## SteveRo

So this is stable once I get into windows, but getting into windows is a pain in the ass! 
Asus apex X boot errors 49 and 55 .. then finally it decides to go all the way into windows.  
Any advice on booting with tight timings would be greatly appreciated. )
Any advice on timings that I could further tighten would also be greatly appreciated. )
Much Thanks to Jpmboy for his postings - they got me started.


----------



## munternet

I have tried using RunMemTest for some reasonable lengths of time (hours) with no errors and then run Memtest86, test 6 from a USB and encountered errors almost straight away.
I've also found P95 custom,512,4096 produces errors when RunMemTest doesn't.
Would I need to run RunMemTest longer to get the errors?


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf - i9 9900K @5.1/4.7 - 4x8GB G.Skill 3600 CL16 non-RGB @ 4266MHz-C17-18-18-39-2T 1.47v - SA 1.27v - VCCIO 1.25v - RAM Test 1hr.


----------



## SoldierRBT

3200 CL14 RGB @ 4600 CL17 1700% HCI Memtest. DRAM 1.51v IO 1.25v SA 1.30v


----------



## chibi

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200 CL14 RGB @ 4600 CL17 1700% HCI Memtest. DRAM 1.51v IO 1.25v SA 1.30v



Nice cpu clock as well at that voltage


----------



## Martin778

It's on an ASUS Maximus z390, their Vcore readings are not comparable to other manufacturers, its a lot lower. I can easily do 1.28V 5.2...yet the temps will already be hovering around tjmax on a h150i with Noctua fans.
I have the Z390 Apex and bought the z390 Dark to replace it, wonder how much voltage my 9900k needs on the EVGA.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Martin778 said:


> It's on an ASUS Maximus z390, their Vcore readings are not comparable to other manufacturers, its a lot lower. I can easily do 1.28V 5.2...yet the temps will already be hovering around tjmax on a h150i with Noctua fans.
> I have the Z390 Apex and bought the z390 Dark to replace it, wonder how much voltage my 9900k needs on the EVGA.


Yes, the vcore readings on these new ASUS boards are different from the other manufacturers. I was actually going to buy the Z390 Dark too but went for the XI Apex for the price. I got a really nice chip. It can do 5.2GHz Prime95 small ffts 1.31v LLC5 (1.172v underload). I know this chip can do 5.3GHz at around 1.24v under load but temps are very high (I'm using a Corsair H150i).


----------



## BradleyW

davidm71 said:


> @BradleyW,
> 
> Was doing research and came across your posts about the difficulty you had with your ram modules. What ever came of that? What was the cause?
> 
> Did you exceed safe voltage limits? What happened?
> 
> Curious


It turns out anything above or below VCCIO 1.18 and VCCSA 1.23 and DRAM 1.35 caused instability.


----------



## vmanuelgm

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200 CL14 RGB @ 4600 CL17 1700% HCI Memtest. DRAM 1.51v IO 1.25v SA 1.30v



Impressive, mate!!!

Have u tried Cinebench R20??? Would like to see your best score at max overclock in that bench with that golden cpu...


----------



## KedarWolf

Updated, KedarWolf - i9 9900K @5.1/4.7 - 4x8GB G.Skill 3600 CL16 non-RGB @ 4266MHz-C17-18-18-39-2T 1.47v - SA 1.27v - VCCIO 1.25v - HCI MemTest 1000%

I had to raise DDRVPP Voltage and DRAM Termination a tiny bit to 2.540v and .630v to get HCI stable, but the rest is pretty much the same as my RAM Test voltages.

The nice thing about the Gigabyte BIOS is those RAM voltages are on the DRAM and DRAM Training sections so you know it can help RAM stability if you adjust them.


----------



## Deathscythes

Jpmboy said:


> here bud. Enter the primary timings shown below (yes, 17s. once you get something to cooperate, you can try 16). set ram freq to 4000. If th sticks are LED, switch off in bios and then in Aura if the sticks are still lit. USe 1.45V VDIMM, 1.075V VCCIO (1.13 to 1.15V for 64GB of ram), and stay under 0.9V for VSA. Memokay switch off. Dram clock period to 13 and disable TATO (as in attachment pc). I had to adjust vccio for a whike until the RTLs stabilized as shown. Otherwise I was getting an occasional 63 -> 65 and an IOL of 10. Once I got the VCCIO right, I have not seen that occur again. If that works, 4200 is within reach. If the stick are getting tp 40-ish degrees during testing, it's likely to fail, and when it does, the RTLs will/can get f-d up on the hot reboot. I just pit the R6EO in a Lian Lan 011 dynamic case... squeezed 3 360 rads in there with 2 2080Tis. Works but the fans begin to howl once the loop hits 30C. Airflow management is just not working. Everything is quiet if I QDC in a Koolance ERM-#K#U (copper) cooler. I need to post a pic.


Thank you very much man, I can't keep the VCCIO that low otherwise I can't keep the mesh at 3.3 :/ but I had no idea that VCCIO had such impact on IOL/RTL is this board specific?
Regarding the LEDs of the RAM sticks I can't find anything to turn them off from the bios. Is it on this board? To turn them off I use G Skill's Utility instead of aura.
Would you mind explaining what the DRAM Clock Period is? I have no idea.

Regarding TATO, I am very surprised because a friend (don't know his OCN name) told me you told him to keep only TATO enabled. What does it actually do?

Also regarding the other guy's comment - that is completely unfounded IMO - You are by far the person that helped me the most here. Taking the time to provide elaborated answers, which is a lot more than many. The fact that I am still struggling is a different matter - this board is a bloody mystery 0_o.

Sorry for the delayed answer I have been pretty busy :/


----------



## Jpmboy

Deathscythes said:


> Thank you very much man, I can't keep the VCCIO that low otherwise I can't keep the mesh at 3.3 :/ but I had no idea that VCCIO had such impact on IOL/RTL is this board specific?
> Regarding the LEDs of the RAM sticks I can't find anything to turn them off from the bios. Is it on this board? To turn them off I use G Skill's Utility instead of aura.
> Would you mind explaining what the DRAM Clock Period is? I have no idea.
> 
> *Regarding TATO, I am very surprised because a friend (don't know his OCN name) told me you told him to keep only TATO enabled. What does it actually do?*
> 
> Also regarding the other guy's comment - that is completely unfounded IMO - You are by far the person that helped me the most here. Taking the time to provide elaborated answers, which is a lot more than many. The fact that I am still struggling is a different matter - this board is a bloody mystery 0_o.
> 
> Sorry for the delayed answer I have been pretty busy :/


TATO really depends on which platform (1151 or 2066). This measures the signal path differences and compensates for normal variations in the trace lengths and resistance. Once I got VCCIO right, TATO was not needed.


----------



## Falkentyne

Martin778 said:


> It's on an ASUS Maximus z390, their Vcore readings are not comparable to other manufacturers, its a lot lower. I can easily do 1.28V 5.2...yet the temps will already be hovering around tjmax on a h150i with Noctua fans.
> I have the Z390 Apex and bought the z390 Dark to replace it, wonder how much voltage my 9900k needs on the EVGA.





SoldierRBT said:


> Yes, the vcore readings on these new ASUS boards are different from the other manufacturers. I was actually going to buy the Z390 Dark too but went for the XI Apex for the price. I got a really nice chip. It can do 5.2GHz Prime95 small ffts 1.31v LLC5 (1.172v underload). I know this chip can do 5.3GHz at around 1.24v under load but temps are very high (I'm using a Corsair H150i).


The Maximus XI boards use the same vcore calibration as Gigabyte's VR VOUT (some Asus and MSI boards have this for VRM voltage monitoring too), so they will read the same values (within 16mv)---very accurate. VR VOUT = VCC_sense.


----------



## Martin778

They're so accurate that I'm wasting 20-30W extra according to CPU Package power readouts compared to setting the same core voltage on the Z390 DARK. The CPU runs a good few degrees hotter on the ASUS too.
The Apex also has some serious Vdroop, like 1.29->1.24V with LLC=6...I can set the same Vcore on the DARK and even add -25% Vdroop reduction (voltage a becomes a bit higher under load, instead of dropping) and still it uses less power and runs cooler than the ASUS.


----------



## kignt

*micron rev.E 2x16gb*

kignt -- i7 8700K @5.0/4.4, 2x16GB 4000 MT/s, 19-22-22-40-2T, 1.425v vdimm, 1.220v vccio, 1.250v vccsa (all in bios) ---GSAT 2 Hours---Karhu(cache enabled) 7100% --
Asrock z370 Taichi p4.00 -- Ballistix Sport LT 3200 CL16 BLS2K16G4D32AESE --


----------



## ktoonsez

3200 16-18-18-36 @ 3466 16-18-18-36. CPU @ 5.0, NB & 4.7

All you guru's out there see anything I can improve on? Unfortunately as I posted a few pages back this RAM will not go above 3400-3466, weird thing is too is that if I give anymore voltage than 1.43 to the RAM it produces errors in gsat with no other changes. Got VCCIO and VCCSA at 2.5 as that is the only thing keeping the RAM from failing gsat. Hopefully someone has some good insite as I have seen reading thru the last 300 pages people getting 3200 RAM up into the 4000Mhz range. For sure dual rank 16GB sticks is a near impossible task without super duper silicon lottery luck.


----------



## kignt

Spoiler






ktoonsez said:


> 3200 16-18-18-36 @ 3466 16-18-18-36. CPU @ 5.0, NB & 4.7
> 
> All you guru's out there see anything I can improve on? Unfortunately as I posted a few pages back this RAM will not go above 3400-3466, weird thing is too is that if I give anymore voltage than 1.43 to the RAM it produces errors in gsat with no other changes. Got VCCIO and VCCSA at 2.5 as that is the only thing keeping the RAM from failing gsat. Hopefully someone has some good insite as I have seen reading thru the last 300 pages people getting 3200 RAM up into the 4000Mhz range. For sure dual rank 16GB sticks is a near impossible task without super duper silicon lottery luck.






Find out what chips the memory uses, Thaiphoon Burner : read > spd
Within "daily" voltages: Samsung b-die should reach >4000. Hynix AFR/MFR maybe 3400-3600. 
Memory trace layout: T-topology with 4 modules. Daisy chain with 2 modules.


----------



## ktoonsez

kignt said:


> Find out what chips the memory uses, Thaiphoon Burner : read > spd
> Within "daily" voltages: Samsung b-die should reach >4000. Hynix AFR/MFR maybe 3400-3600.
> Memory trace layout: T-topology with 4 modules. Daisy chain with 2 modules.


Edited my post above to include the Thaiphoon screen shot, they are Hynix, so as you stated looks like I am stuck with 3466. I tried 3500 and 3600 many times in last 3 weeks (loosing primaries, adjusting voltages...) and just cant seem to get it stable even with zero CPU/NB overclocking. Now that I know that VDIMM voltage will no go above 1.43 without freaking out the RAM the picture is getting more clear from 3 weeks ago.


----------



## kignt

Spoiler






ktoonsez said:


> Edited my post above to include the Thaiphoon screen shot, they are Hynix, so as you stated looks like I am stuck with 3466. I tried 3500 and 3600 many times in last 3 weeks and just cant seem to get it stable even with zero CPU/NB overclocking. Now that I know that VDIMM voltage will no go above 1.43 without freaking out the RAM the picture is getting more clear from 3 weeks ago.






Could be you found the limit within those parameters. Higher capacity/densities should be more difficult


----------



## Jpmboy

kignt said:


> kignt -- i7 8700K @5.0/4.4, 2x16GB 4000 MT/s, 19-22-22-40-2T, 1.425v vdimm, 1.220v vccio, 1.250v vccsa (all in bios) ---GSAT 2 Hours---Karhu(cache enabled) 7100% --
> Asrock z370 Taichi p4.00 -- Ballistix Sport LT 3200 CL16 BLS2K16G4D32AESE --


now that's a good OC on some basic sticks! :thumb:


----------



## amd955be5670

Hi guys, I'm looking into buying a couple of 16GB sticks (BDie) for some overclocking fun(F4-3200C14D-32GVK).

Was wondering how well 16gb Sammy BDie sticks fare in overclocking?


----------



## The Pook

They should OC as well as any other B-Die dual rank sticks.


----------



## munternet

amd955be5670 said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking into buying a couple of 16GB sticks (BDie) for some overclocking fun(F4-3200C14D-32GVK).
> 
> Was wondering how well 16gb Sammy BDie sticks fare in overclocking?


What's your motherboard? just out of curiosity


----------



## amd955be5670

munternet said:


> What's your motherboard? just out of curiosity


Asrock Z370 Fatality K6.

Would like to know the general achievable average for 16GB Sammy BDie Sticks. (e.g. most 8700k do 5ghz)


----------



## munternet

amd955be5670 said:


> Asrock Z370 Fatality K6.
> 
> Would like to know the general achievable average for 16GB Sammy BDie Sticks. (e.g. most 8700k do 5ghz)


So are they a daisy chain topology?


----------



## amd955be5670

munternet said:


> So are they a daisy chain topology?


A quick google leads me to believe its T-Topology. Anandtech did a piece on it : https://www.anandtech.com/show/11860/z370-motherboards-asus-asrock-ecs-evga-biostar-msi-gigabyte


----------



## munternet

amd955be5670 said:


> A quick google leads me to believe its T-Topology. Anandtech did a piece on it : https://www.anandtech.com/show/11860/z370-motherboards-asus-asrock-ecs-evga-biostar-msi-gigabyte


I don't know much about dual rank sticks but I get much better performance from 4 single rank sticks than 2 single ranks on my board.
But like I say, I really have no idea of the ins and outs of the different ranks and layouts etc


----------



## Jpmboy

amd955be5670 said:


> Asrock Z370 Fatality K6.
> 
> Would like to know the general achievable average for 16GB Sammy BDie Sticks. (e.g. most 8700k do 5ghz)


3866 and lower for 32GB depending on the cpu. 4000 is not out of reach tho.


----------



## amd955be5670

Jpmboy said:


> 3866 and lower for 32GB depending on the cpu. 4000 is not out of reach tho.


Ah thanks! The older the kit I get (mfg date), are the chances of oc higher?


----------



## Jpmboy

amd955be5670 said:


> Ah thanks! The older the kit I get (mfg date), are the chances of oc higher?



that's debatable. LEDs make a significant difference tho. They look good but seem to affect stability at high(er) OCs.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Just posting a download for the x299 asrock timing config utility


----------



## davidm71

Guys got a little bit of a mystery was wondering if you could help me solve. Basically I have an Apex IX motherboard that I coffee lake modded using a bios of an Apex X that was modded by a guy named Dsanke. Anyhow when the board had a stock bios and a 6700K in there I could overclock B-Die dual rank 2 x 16gb Gskill 3200 ram to 3600mhz no problem. Now with a 9700K the board will fail to post if I go over 3400mhz. Had set cpu-io and SA to 1.2v each and 1.385 v for the ram. Cpu at 1.285v. XMP settings 14-14-14-34 @ 15-16-16-36. Not familiar if there are any Asus specific hacks to get it working again at 3600mhz. Either the 9700K has a bad memory controller or the modded bios just can't handle it. Perhaps theres issues with trace lengths being mismatched. Not sure.

Thanks


----------



## The Pook

davidm71 said:


> Guys got a little bit of a mystery was wondering if you could help me solve. Basically I have an Apex IX motherboard that I coffee lake modded using a bios of an Apex X that was modded by a guy named Dsanke. Anyhow when the board had a stock bios and a 6700K in there I could overclock B-Die dual rank 2 x 16gb Gskill 3200 ram to 3600mhz no problem. Now with a 9700K the board will fail to post if I go over 3400mhz. Had set cpu-io and SA to 1.2v each and 1.385 v for the ram. Cpu at 1.285v. XMP settings 14-14-14-34 @ 15-16-16-36. Not familiar if there are any Asus specific hacks to get it working again at 3600mhz. Either the 9700K has a bad memory controller or the modded bios just can't handle it. Perhaps theres issues with trace lengths being mismatched. Not sure.
> 
> Thanks



Still have the 6700K? Does the 6700K with the modded BIOS let your RAM run 3600?


----------



## davidm71

The Pook said:


> Still have the 6700K? Does the 6700K with the modded BIOS let your RAM run 3600?


I didn’t try to run the 6700k at 3600mhz on the modded bios. I should have to have a baseline.


----------



## munternet

Where to next?

Maximus X Hero
8700k 5.2GHz @ 1.48v
vccio 1.225v
vccsa 1.2375v
bclk 100.5
4x8GB F4-4400C19-8GTZKK 4200MHz 17-17-17-39 @ 1.44v

I've been trying everything to get a bit more performance out of these sticks but can't seem to get any more.
@KedarWolf I have been following some of your progress and stealing some ideas already


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> Where to next?
> 
> Maximus X Hero
> 8700k 5.2GHz @ 1.48v
> vccio 1.225v
> vccsa 1.2375v
> bclk 100.5
> 4x8GB F4-4400C19-8GTZKK 4200MHz 17-17-17-39 @ 1.44v
> 
> I've been trying everything to get a bit more performance out of these sticks but can't seem to get any more.
> @KedarWolf I have been following some of your progress and stealing some ideas already




Edit: I only get a tiny bit more write and copy on my 9900k. brb, I'll run AIDA.



















Second Edit: Tweaking DDRVPP and DRAM Termination can give you higher overclocks. 

This is what i need for GSAT stable at 4200.


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> Second Edit: Tweaking DDRVPP and DRAM Termination can give you higher overclocks.
> 
> This is what i need for GSAT stable at 4200.


I tried those figures earlier but they don't seem to work on my board. Auto did better but it doesn't show what it's using.
I have been stalking a few of your posts


----------



## centvalny

Testing 1T @ 4800+


----------



## moorhen2

Managed to get 4400 to boot at CR1, 1.480v, not too shabby for a 3200 kit.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yep tried 4200 yesterday did not post didn't change anything though besides frequency 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=274584&d=1560573246


----------



## ducegt

Good to see the usual crowd pushing the envelope further. I scored a IX APEX for $40 (open box + rebate) and it only took me 10+ hours questioning my sanity before I discovered there was a slightly crooked socket pin! I loaded Raja's 4133 profile and dropped the primaries down a notch. 1.45V. Don't have screenies, but it's GST stable 10 hours. I've been using budget boards and clocking higher than the average Joe on better gear since socket 939, but I may have caught the ROG flu now.


----------



## SoldierRBT

3200C14 RGB @ 4600C17 1.51v IO 1.21875v SA 1.26250v 1800%+ HCI Memtest


----------



## Jpmboy

centvalny said:


> Testing 1T @ 4800+


that Apex XI is an amazing board:thumb: for ram! 


moorhen2 said:


> Managed to get 4400 to boot at CR1, 1.480v, not too shabby for a 3200 kit.


nice. Apex XI... crazy good board!


ducegt said:


> Good to see the usual crowd pushing the envelope further. I scored a IX APEX for $40 (open box + rebate) and it only took me 10+ hours questioning my sanity before I discovered there was a slightly crooked socket pin! I loaded Raja's 4133 profile and dropped the primaries down a notch. 1.45V. Don't have screenies, but it's GST stable 10 hours. I've been using budget boards and clocking higher than the average Joe on better gear since socket 939, but I may have caught the ROG flu now.


The Apex IX (9), is an epic board. Great score for that price. :drool:


----------



## centvalny

moorhen2 said:


> Managed to get 4400 to boot at CR1, 1.480v, not too shabby for a 3200 kit.


Awesome sticks moorhen2



SoldierRBT said:


> 3200C14 RGB @ 4600C17 1.51v IO 1.21875v SA 1.26250v 1800%+ HCI Memtest


Nice binned 3200C14



Jpmboy said:


> that Apex XI is an amazing board:thumb: for ram!


Thanks Jpmboy. Hows your 4800?


----------



## UltraMega

Ram question here:

I'm thinking about getting a Ryzen 2600 with a GIGABYTE B450M DS3H mobo.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145083


One of the fastest ram kits on the QVL is this: F4-3200C14D-16GFX 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb...=flare X&cm_re=flare_X-_-20-232-530-_-Product

Ram QVL: http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_b450m-ds3h_summit.pdf


Just wondering if there is any cheaper 3200mhz ram I can get, as this will be a budget build. This ram is a pretty good deal already but there are so many variants, it more than I know how to sort through. Looking to get the cheapest decent/reliable 3200mhz ram that will work with XMP setting on this board. 

Any suggestion is appreciated!

Edit: would this ram work? https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb...=flare X&cm_re=flare_X-_-20-232-767-_-Product


----------



## Jpmboy

centvalny said:


> Awesome sticks moorhen2
> 
> Nice binned 3200C14
> 
> Thanks Jpmboy.* Hows your 4800?*


you mean the royal Z mirror sticks? ... running 4600c16 on my Apex X. After that, I think I'm hitting the board's or CPU's (or my sample's) ceiling. Boots 4800. but not stable no matter what I tried. 4600c16 is good enough. 





UltraMega said:


> Ram question here:
> 
> I'm thinking about getting a Ryzen 2600 with a GIGABYTE B450M DS3H mobo.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145083
> One of the fastest ram kits on the QVL is this: F4-3200C14D-16GFX
> https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb...=flare X&cm_re=flare_X-_-20-232-530-_-Product
> Ram QVL: http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_b450m-ds3h_summit.pdf
> Just wondering if there is any cheaper 3200mhz ram I can get, as this will be a budget build. This ram is a pretty good deal already but there are so many variants, it more than I know how to sort through. Looking to get the cheapest decent/reliable 3200mhz ram that will work with XMP setting on this board.
> Any suggestion is appreciated!
> Edit: would this ram work? https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb...=flare X&cm_re=flare_X-_-20-232-767-_-Product


you might get quicker advice in an AMD ram thread... this is an Intel thread and they behave VERY differently.


----------



## KedarWolf

This is GSAT stable. Tweaked timings, bit better AIDA score.


----------



## Imprezzion

I also need a bit of advice from you guru's on where to go from here and which sticks I should keep.

Setup:
MSI Z170A Gaming M7 with the last BIOS before security updates (I think it's "J")

I7 7700k delidded @ 4.9Ghz 1.308v 4.6Ghz cache @ 1.1v VCCIO, 1.05v VCCSA.

I have a set of 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200CL16 (v5.31 Hynix 8GBit BFR).

I have another set of Corsair Vengeance RGB 3466CL16 Single rank single sided Samsung B-Die.

- Problem #1:
I think it's CPU but k, neither of these kits plus a B-Die G.Skill kit I borrowed will boot at anything above 3200Mhz no matter what I set.
VCCIO and VCCSA have zero effect on stability. Had them as high as 1.35v, doesn't seem to matter. Even in stock CPU freq and cache freq with super high voltages it will not boot above 3600 and won't run stable at over 3200. Also tested with a Z170 ROG Hero, same issues.

Is this 7700K IMC just THAT weak or am I overestimating the Kaby IMC...

- Problem #2
The BFR kit can do WAY lower timings then the B-Die kit so it seems.. Is that normal?

This BFR kit is 2000% HCI stable on 2700Mhz 11-14-14-34-350-1T @ 1.42v VDIMM and 1.05v IO/SA. 
I now run 3000Mhz 12-15-15-35-400-1T @ 1.36v VDIMM with stock IO/SA. 

The B-Die kit can get to C12 @ 3000 but not on 1T. Only on 2T. I have no idea what the primary timings besides CL should be for B-Die and what voltage it and IO/SA should run at.

Also, on 2700 it won't get anywhere near C11. Not even on 2T.

The B-Die kit will probably run better on the new Ryzen platform which I plan to buy as it releases (3800/3900x with MSI X570 board).


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> I also need a bit of advice from you guru's on where to go from here and which sticks I should keep.
> 
> Setup:
> MSI Z170A Gaming M7 with the last BIOS before security updates (I think it's "J")
> 
> I7 7700k delidded @ 4.9Ghz 1.308v 4.6Ghz cache @ 1.1v VCCIO, 1.05v VCCSA.
> 
> I have a set of 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200CL16 (v5.31 Hynix 8GBit BFR).
> 
> I have another set of Corsair Vengeance RGB 3466CL16 Single rank single sided Samsung B-Die.
> 
> - Problem #1:
> I think it's CPU but k, neither of these kits plus a B-Die G.Skill kit I borrowed will boot at anything above 3200Mhz no matter what I set.
> VCCIO and VCCSA have zero effect on stability. Had them as high as 1.35v, doesn't seem to matter. Even in stock CPU freq and cache freq with super high voltages it will not boot above 3600 and won't run stable at over 3200. Also tested with a Z170 ROG Hero, same issues.
> 
> Is this 7700K IMC just THAT weak or am I overestimating the Kaby IMC...
> 
> - Problem #2
> The BFR kit can do WAY lower timings then the B-Die kit so it seems.. Is that normal?
> 
> This BFR kit is 2000% HCI stable on 2700Mhz 11-14-14-34-350-1T @ 1.42v VDIMM and 1.05v IO/SA.
> I now run 3000Mhz 12-15-15-35-400-1T @ 1.36v VDIMM with stock IO/SA.
> 
> The B-Die kit can get to C12 @ 3000 but not on 1T. Only on 2T. I have no idea what the primary timings besides CL should be for B-Die and what voltage it and IO/SA should run at.
> 
> Also, on 2700 it won't get anywhere near C11. Not even on 2T.
> 
> The B-Die kit will probably run better on the new Ryzen platform which I plan to buy as it releases (3800/3900x with MSI X570 board).



OCN is broken on mobile and your post is gibberish. Post back on desktop.


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> OCN is broken on mobile and your post is gibberish. Post back on desktop.


Or just scroll to the bottom of the OCN website on mobile and choose 'Use Desktop Version'.


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> Or just scroll to the bottom of the OCN website on mobile and choose 'Use Desktop Version'.



... or that


----------



## SoldierRBT

Jpmboy said:


> centvalny said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome sticks moorhen2
> 
> Nice binned 3200C14
> 
> Thanks Jpmboy.* Hows your 4800?*
> 
> 
> 
> you mean the royal Z mirror sticks? ... running 4600c16 on my Apex X. After that, I think I'm hitting the board's or CPU's (or my sample's) ceiling. Boots 4800. but not stable no matter what I tried. 4600c16 is good enough.
Click to expand...

Nice OC. Would you share your 4600C16 settings? I have the Asus XI Apex and 3200C14 sticks and anything above 4600MHz with good timings requires too much SA voltage (1.35v+).


----------



## Jpmboy

SoldierRBT said:


> Nice OC. Would you share your 4600C16 settings? I have the Asus XI Apex and 3200C14 sticks and anything above 4600MHz with good timings requires too much SA voltage (1.35v+).


will do... just not anywhere near that rig atm.


----------



## truehighroller1

What's up everyone! 

I haven't played with memory settings in awhile and there's been a few bios revisions so I figured I'd try my hand at this again. What is the highest you've been able to achieve or witnessed being achieved on the X299 rampage extreme @Jpmboy with a 7900x? I'm stable right now at %155 coverage and still going with the following settings. Timing tool reports single channel but it's quad per cpuz.

Edit: I did some searching through this massive thread and stumbled upon some useful information that you had posted and a couple of other people JP so. My memory temps after 1000% on the highest and 500% on the lowest iteration are 40, 44, 40, 40. I'm guessing the 44 is closest to the CPU MOSFETs perhaps. Still running stable though. I have fans facing right at / on the memory, 120s I believe so about as cool as they can get. I took note of my memory settings rtl wise etc. So I can watch them when cold booting etc. as well. Still Curious about the highest quad channel speeds you've seen reached with this board on a 7900x though.


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> What's up everyone!
> 
> I haven't played with memory settings in awhile and there's been a few bios revisions so I figured I'd try my hand at this again. What is the highest you've been able to achieve or witnessed being achieved on the X299 rampage extreme @*Jpmboy* with a 7900x? I'm stable right now at %155 coverage and still going with the following settings. Timing tool reports single channel but it's quad per cpuz.
> 
> Edit: I did some searching through this massive thread and stumbled upon some useful information that you had posted and a couple of other people JP so. My memory temps after 1000% on the highest and 500% on the lowest iteration are 40, 44, 40, 40. I'm guessing the 44 is closest to the CPU MOSFETs perhaps. Still running stable though. I have fans facing right at / on the memory, 120s I believe so about as cool as they can get. I took note of my memory settings rtl wise etc. So I can watch them when cold booting etc. as well. Still Curious about the highest quad channel speeds you've seen reached with this board on a 7900x though.


Yeah the asrock tool does that (single channel). 4000c17 is damn good with the 7900X IMC. 16-17-17 should be possible with cooperative sticks I think. At 45-ish temps you make pop a thermally-induced bit flip or other errors. But in normal use, the sticks should never get that hot. For stress testing, do what ever is takes to keep the temps below 40C.


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah the asrock tool does that (single channel). 4000c17 is damn good with the 7900X IMC. 16-17-17 should be possible with cooperative sticks I think. At 45-ish temps you make pop a thermally-induced bit flip or other errors. But in normal use, the sticks should never get that hot. For stress testing, do what ever is takes to keep the temps below 40C.


Thank you sir! Noted.


----------



## alv-OC

@KedarWolf

As you suggested me at the Z390 Aorus Master thread I tryed yesterday evening almost all timings that you have posted here in this thread, I spent 4 hours trying to get my RAM stable at 4000MHz but any of my attempts were good. I could get XMP working and get into OS but it crashed afert a few seconds after launching Memetest64.

It's quite wierd because 2 days ago it would't boot with just XMP (4000MHZ 17-17-17-37 2T | 1.35v) enabled, and magically yesterday did. I also tryed some few steps above from 4000MHZ and few below (4266, 4200, 4166, 4100, 4000, 3900 3866MHz) with VCCIO and SA starting at 1.18v up to 1.35v for each speed step as well as RAM voltage, starting at 1.35 up to 1.5v (both in RAMv and Trainig Voltage), almost all of them didn't pass MemTest or Crashed righ on OS. 

After all tests I did, the one I had from before is slightly more stable, it is able to run MemTest64 and give error but is not crashing BOSD, but I canty do much thingsm sooner or later this also goes BSOD:

Speed: 4000MHz (Base clocl at 100.05MHz). Voltage: 1.52v (VCCIO: 1.19 VCCSA: 1.27)

CAS Latency: 17
tRCD: 18
tRP: 18
tRAS: 38

tRC: 54
tWR:24
tCWL: 16
tRRD_S: 6
tRRD_L: 10
tWTR_S: 8
tWTR_L: 15
tCCD_S: 6
tCCD_L: 10
tRFC: 450
tRTP: 15
tFAW: 48
Command Rate: 2

tREFI: 15600 

I'v seen that tRC should be = tRP+tRAS, is it? and all users running tRFC:374 but seems to be working with my kit, I tryed to set it at 700 as does the XMP but didn'y work either. Also I couldn't find any recommended setting for tCCD_S/L, how is it calculated?? I guseed that it could't be lower than reding timing.


----------



## KedarWolf

alv-OC said:


> @KedarWolf
> 
> As you suggested me at the Z390 Aorus Master thread I tryed yesterday evening almost all timings that you have posted here in this thread, I spent 4 hours trying to get my RAM stable at 4000MHz but any of my attempts were good. I could get XMP working and get into OS but it crashed afert a few seconds after launching Memetest64.
> 
> It's quite wierd because 2 days ago it would't boot with just XMP (4000MHZ 17-17-17-37 2T | 1.35v) enabled, and magically yesterday did. I also tryed some few steps above from 4000MHZ and few below (4266, 4200, 4166, 4100, 4000, 3900 3866MHz) with VCCIO and SA starting at 1.18v up to 1.35v for each speed step as well as RAM voltage, starting at 1.35 up to 1.5v (both in RAMv and Trainig Voltage), almost all of them didn't pass MemTest or Crashed righ on OS.
> 
> After all tests I did, the one I had from before is slightly more stable, it is able to run MemTest64 and give error but is not crashing BOSD, but I canty do much thingsm sooner or later this also goes BSOD:
> 
> Speed: 4000MHz (Base clocl at 100.05MHz). Voltage: 1.52v (VCCIO: 1.19 VCCSA: 1.27)
> 
> CAS Latency: 17
> tRCD: 18
> tRP: 18
> tRAS: 38
> 
> tRC: 54
> tWR:24
> tCWL: 16
> tRRD_S: 6
> tRRD_L: 10
> tWTR_S: 8
> tWTR_L: 15
> tCCD_S: 6
> tCCD_L: 10
> tRFC: 450
> tRTP: 15
> tFAW: 48
> Command Rate: 2
> 
> tREFI: 15600
> 
> I'v seen that tRC should be = tRP+tRAS, is it? and all users running tRFC:374 but seems to be working with my kit, I tryed to set it at 700 as does the XMP but didn'y work either. Also I couldn't find any recommended setting for tCCD_S/L, how is it calculated?? I guseed that it could't be lower than reding timing.


I would keep RAM voltage 1.45 or under, SA and VCCIO at 1.25 or under. And more isn't always better, RAM can become unstable with voltages too high. To get 4200MHZ stable I need to keep RAM at 1.45v or under, SA and VCCIO at 1.25 or under.


----------



## alv-OC

KedarWolf said:


> I would keep RAM voltage 1.45 or under, SA and VCCIO at 1.25 or under. And more isn't always better, RAM can become unstable with voltages too high. To get 4200MHZ stable I need to keep RAM at 1.45v or under, SA and VCCIO at 1.25 or under.


Yeah I kind of realised of that... however XMP would only boot if VCCIO|SA are in Auto, where the MoBo set what I also consider way to high voltages... On the other hand, the BIOS profile that works best so far (the one I posted) , has VCCIO/SA much lower and works better, but either adding or lowering the voltages would cause Memtraining and/or Boot fail... it's just that it doesn't make any sense, I can't identify any pattern where I can say, 'oh well, passed that speed and that voltage everythign screws up but if I keep it under goes fine'... nope... everything looks like totally random...


----------



## Imprezzion

Attempt #2: I hate mobile.. 

I also need a bit of advice from you guru's on where to go from here and which sticks I should keep.

Setup:
MSI Z170A Gaming M7 with the last BIOS before security updates (I think it's "J")

I7 7700k delidded @ 4.9Ghz 1.308v 4.6Ghz cache @ 1.1v VCCIO, 1.05v VCCSA.

I have a set of 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200CL16 (v5.31 Hynix 8GBit BFR).

I have another set of Corsair Vengeance RGB 3466CL16 Single rank single sided Samsung B-Die.

- Problem #1:
I think it's CPU but k, neither of these kits plus a B-Die G.Skill kit I borrowed will boot at anything above 3200Mhz no matter what I set.
VCCIO and VCCSA have zero effect on stability. Had them as high as 1.35v, doesn't seem to matter. Even in stock CPU freq and cache freq with super high voltages it will not boot above 3600 and won't run stable at over 3200. Also tested with a Z170 ROG Hero, same issues.

Is this 7700K IMC just THAT weak or am I overestimating the Kaby IMC...

- Problem #2
The BFR kit can do WAY lower timings then the B-Die kit so it seems.. Is that normal?

This BFR kit is 2000% HCI stable on 2700Mhz 11-14-14-34-350-1T @ 1.42v VDIMM and 1.05v IO/SA. 
I now run 3000Mhz 12-15-15-35-400-1T @ 1.36v VDIMM with stock IO/SA. 

The B-Die kit can get to C12 @ 3000 but not on 1T. Only on 2T. I have no idea what the primary timings besides CL should be for B-Die and what voltage it and IO/SA should run at.

Also, on 2700 it won't get anywhere near C11. Not even on 2T.

The B-Die kit will probably run better on the new Ryzen platform which I plan to buy as it releases (3800/3900x with MSI X570 board).


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> What's up everyone!
> 
> I haven't played with memory settings in awhile and there's been a few bios revisions so I figured I'd try my hand at this again. What is the highest you've been able to achieve or witnessed being achieved on the X299 rampage extreme @Jpmboy with a 7900x? I'm stable right now at %155 coverage and still going with the following settings. Timing tool reports single channel but it's quad per cpuz.
> 
> Edit: I did some searching through this massive thread and stumbled upon some useful information that you had posted and a couple of other people JP so. My memory temps after 1000% on the highest and 500% on the lowest iteration are 40, 44, 40, 40. I'm guessing the 44 is closest to the CPU MOSFETs perhaps. Still running stable though. I have fans facing right at / on the memory, 120s I believe so about as cool as they can get. I took note of my memory settings rtl wise etc. So I can watch them when cold booting etc. as well. Still Curious about the highest quad channel speeds you've seen reached with this board on a 7900x though.


Hi,
Which exact set of memory is that ?
Couple cpu-z memory and spd tab shots would of shown it.


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Which exact set of memory is that ?
> Couple cpu-z memory and spd tab shots would of shown it.


 Trident z rgb 4000 Cas 17's 8gb x 4. They're in my signature now. I updated my rig info via rig builder.


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> Trident z rgb 4000 Cas 17's 8gb x 4. They're in my signature now. I updated my rig info via rig builder.


Hi,
You'll have to uncheck show rig in sig and save then recheck the option before the new info to show up.


----------



## moorhen2

Question, I am looking at purchasing a G-Skill F4-3600 C15D 16GTZ kit, my question is are they as good as my 3200 c14 kit overclocking wise, any owners on here that can verify there ability.


----------



## davidm71

ducegt said:


> Good to see the usual crowd pushing the envelope further. I scored a IX APEX for $40 (open box + rebate) and it only took me 10+ hours questioning my sanity before I discovered there was a slightly crooked socket pin! I loaded Raja's 4133 profile and dropped the primaries down a notch. 1.45V. Don't have screenies, but it's GST stable 10 hours. I've been using budget boards and clocking higher than the average Joe on better gear since socket 939, but I may have caught the ROG flu now.



Also got an Apex IX (for $60 AR) running an Apex X bios vs 2003 with a 9700K (Coffelake Mod). Got Gskill 14-14-14-34 3200mhz 32gb dual rank 2x16gb Bdie kit. On another board with other cpu was able to get memory to post at 3600 and sometimes 3733mhz but now can not go over 3400mhz even at 15-16-16-37 which I could do before! Get error ’49’ or ’55’ on the Apex IX. Set cpuio to 1.2 + SA to 1.2 volts. Ram at 1.3850 volts. Maybe I got a bad 9700K? Any suggestions? Other values that I should lax? Eventual voltage values?

Thanks


----------



## ThrashZone

moorhen2 said:


> Question, I am looking at purchasing a G-Skill F4-3600 C15D 16GTZ kit, my question is are they as good as my 3200 c14 kit overclocking wise, any owners on here that can verify there ability.


Hi,
Last I saw on newegg 3200C14 4x8gb's was on sell for 300.us hard to beat that 
3600C16 here is actually slower without a lot of tuning so I doubt C15 is any different although c15 is supposed to be better.

Seeing the c14 now at 300.us I would of bought it instead of 3600c16


----------



## moorhen2

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Last I saw on newegg 3200C14 4x8gb's was on sell for 300.us hard to beat that
> 3600C16 here is actually slower without a lot of tuning so I doubt C15 is any different although c15 is supposed to be better.
> 
> Seeing the c14 now at 300.us I would of bought it instead of 3600c16


Hi, my 3200 c14's are two sticks from my 4 stick kit, and do 4400 c17 1T, so are highly binned, the C15 3600 kits seem to be the best Overclockers I am lead to believe, just want some clarity before buying.


----------



## ThrashZone

moorhen2 said:


> Hi, my 3200 c14's are two sticks from my 4 stick kit, and do 4400 c17 1T, so are highly binned, the C15 3600 kits seem to be the best Overclockers I am lead to believe, just want some clarity before buying.


Hi,
You're running in dual channel so memory will always do better 3600c15 is supposed to be good catnip


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> Question, I am looking at purchasing a G-Skill F4-3600 C15D 16GTZ kit, my question is are they as good as my 3200 c14 kit overclocking wise, any owners on here that can verify there ability.


 yeah, I have a bunch of 3600c15 sticks (4 kits), two 3600c16 4x8GB kits, an 8x8GB 3200c14 kit, and several others. The 3600c15 kits (2 kits mixed on this x299 APEX/7980XE) do 4000c16 without much issue at 1.41V. The two 3600c16 kits are at 4200c17 on a R6EO/9900X with 1.5V. There's no certainty here... the 3600c15 kits are a higher bin, but whether they would mix "better" than a 4x8GB 3600c16 (binned) kit is a crapshoot. Personally, I'd go with the 4x8GB kit that's binned to work together. Tho, I've not had problems getting two 3600c15 kits to work together (for 32GB) on a couple of builds. There's a reason GS does not offer a 4x8GB 3600c15 kit with 4 sticks binned to work together - right? I do have two 3200c14 2x8GB kit (Flares) that I've moved around between several rigs before their final resting place (an x470/2700X rig) and OC'd as well as any on 3 intel platforms.
At the same VDIMM, 3200c14 and 3600c16 are basically the same ICs. 3600c15 is one notch tighter - they usually do not disappoint.


----------



## ducegt

davidm71 said:


> Also got an Apex IX (for $60 AR) running an Apex X bios vs 2003 with a 9700K (Coffelake Mod). Got Gskill 14-14-14-34 3200mhz 32gb dual rank 2x16gb Bdie kit. On another board with other cpu was able to get memory to post at 3600 and sometimes 3733mhz but now can not go over 3400mhz even at 15-16-16-37 which I could do before! Get error ’49’ or ’55’ on the Apex IX. Set cpuio to 1.2 + SA to 1.2 volts. Ram at 1.3850 volts. Maybe I got a bad 9700K? Any suggestions? Other values that I should lax? Eventual voltage values?
> 
> Thanks


You can try setting IO 1.25, SA 1.3, and DRAM 1.45 for testing only if you don't want to run them that high. Myself and others have been running 1.45v for 2+ years with no issues. Make sure your RTL/IOLS are on auto while you are trying different dividers. For the most part, there wasn't any special tricks to getting mine to boot with high frequencies; it just worked. 

Did you end soldering the BIOS chip on the board or flash with your SPI programmer? I tried soldering the BIOS point and couldn't make it work. I also tried bridging the two points with pencil and a small screw driver, but Flashback would never work.I never soldered the other 2 points on the board to make CFL work as I'm still on a 7700K. Maybe both points need to be soldered for flashback method to work... I've got some solder flux paste coming in the mail that might help if I dare try it again. I modded many xboxs many years ago with a solder iron and am worried about burning traces on this board.


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> The BFR kit can do WAY lower timings then the B-Die kit so it seems.. Is that normal?
> 
> This BFR kit is 2000% HCI stable on 2700Mhz 11-14-14-34-350-1T @ 1.42v VDIMM and 1.05v IO/SA.
> I now run 3000Mhz 12-15-15-35-400-1T @ 1.36v VDIMM with stock IO/SA.
> 
> The B-Die kit can get to C12 @ 3000 but not on 1T. Only on 2T. I have no idea what the primary timings besides CL should be for B-Die and what voltage it and IO/SA should run at.
> 
> Also, on 2700 it won't get anywhere near C11. Not even on 2T.
> 
> The B-Die kit will probably run better on the new Ryzen platform which I plan to buy as it releases (3800/3900x with MSI X570 board).



Some kits just flat out can't hit 1T. My B-Die 4133 won't do 1T above ~3200, my old 3600 E-Die would do 1T at 3866, and my 3600 Hynix wouldn't do 1T at any speed.


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, I have a bunch of 3600c15 sticks (4 kits), two 3600c16 4x8GB kits, an 8x8GB 3200c14 kit, and several others. The 3600c15 kits (2 kits mixed on this x299 APEX/7980XE) do 4000c16 without much issue at 1.41V. The two 3600c16 kits are at 4200c17 on a R6EO/9900X with 1.5V. There's no certainty here... the 3600c15 kits are a higher bin, but whether they would mix "better" than a 4x8GB 3600c16 (binned) kit is a crapshoot. Personally, I'd go with the 4x8GB kit that's binned to work together. Tho, I've not had problems getting two 3600c15 kits to work together (for 32GB) on a couple of builds. There's a reason GS does not offer a 4x8GB 3600c15 kit with 4 sticks binned to work together - right? I do have two 3200c14 2x8GB kit (Flares) that I've moved around between several rigs before their final resting place (an x470/2700X rig) and OC'd as well as any on 3 intel platforms.
> At the same VDIMM, 3200c14 and 3600c16 are basically the same ICs. 3600c15 is one notch tighter - they usually do not disappoint.


Thanks for the info, the 3600 c15 kit I am looking at is a duel channel kit of 2 x 8, so ideal for my XI Apex.


----------



## moorhen2

My exceptional 3200 C14 kit, if the 3600 C15 kit I am looking at is anywhere near as good, I will be very happy.


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> My exceptional 3200 C14 kit, if the 3600 C15 kit I am looking at is anywhere near as good, I will be very happy.


the RTLs in that screenshot are a bit out of whack... just have realistic expectation from the 3600c15s. they are not significantly better than 3200c14/3600c16 depending on the specific samples.


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You'll have to uncheck show rig in sig and save then recheck the option before the new info to show up.


There you go my bad was at work earlier.


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> the RTLs in that screenshot are a bit out of whack... just have realistic expectation from the 3600c15s. they are not significantly better than 3200c14/3600c16 depending on the specific samples.


I am well aware that buying ram is a lottery. As to the RTL's, they go from 71/120 71/120 at 2T, and 69/78 64/78 at 1T.


----------



## tistou77

Hello

In "idle" my rams are about 10° warmer than room temperature
I let you imagine in stress test 

Apart from a well ventilated case, you have fans on rams or other ?

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> I am well aware that buying ram is a lottery. As to the RTL's, they go from 71/120 71/120 at 2T, and 69/78 64/78 at 1T.


it's the D0 values that are off at 1T


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> it's the D0 values that are off at 1T


D0's sorted.


----------



## davidm71

ducegt said:


> You can try setting IO 1.25, SA 1.3, and DRAM 1.45 for testing only if you don't want to run them that high. Myself and others have been running 1.45v for 2+ years with no issues. Make sure your RTL/IOLS are on auto while you are trying different dividers. For the most part, there wasn't any special tricks to getting mine to boot with high frequencies; it just worked.
> 
> Did you end soldering the BIOS chip on the board or flash with your SPI programmer? I tried soldering the BIOS point and couldn't make it work. I also tried bridging the two points with pencil and a small screw driver, but Flashback would never work.I never soldered the other 2 points on the board to make CFL work as I'm still on a 7700K. Maybe both points need to be soldered for flashback method to work... I've got some solder flux paste coming in the mail that might help if I dare try it again. I modded many xboxs many years ago with a solder iron and am worried about burning traces on this board.


Yeah I those volts are a little bit too high for my comfort level. I wouldn't want more than IO 1.20 and SA 1.25 volts max for 24/7. Don't mind 1.45v for the ram as they have a fan over the modules. Maybe the 9700K IMC is just not that great. Doesn't make sense that the 6700K can do better than a 9700K.

Anyhow I ended up programming the bios through the onboard SPI header. Was able to access each bios chip using a jumper on either pin 1-2 or 2-3 to select bios A or bios B. Did it with a FlashcatUSB programmer but you don't need to solder anything to get flashback to work. 

I read that all you have to do is short two pins before starting the machine. Talk about it more on HWBot not to get off track or off topic but personally I highly recommend the FlashcatUSB programmer. I used pitch wire to manually wire the connections from the header to my programmer. Was easier than I thought.

Got to listen to some BuildZoid to get a few ideas whats going on. Maybe its the voltage on the ram.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> D0's sorted.


nice. Ignore the D1 values - they fix with frequency. D0 is the round trip latency measurement that occurs during post. If they get too different/misaligned it will affect performance. Give those new settings a serious test - something like ramtest or gsat, HCi memtest.


----------



## Falkentyne

alv-OC said:


> @KedarWolf
> 
> As you suggested me at the Z390 Aorus Master thread I tryed yesterday evening almost all timings that you have posted here in this thread, I spent 4 hours trying to get my RAM stable at 4000MHz but any of my attempts were good. I could get XMP working and get into OS but it crashed afert a few seconds after launching Memetest64.
> 
> It's quite wierd because 2 days ago it would't boot with just XMP (4000MHZ 17-17-17-37 2T | 1.35v) enabled, and magically yesterday did. I also tryed some few steps above from 4000MHZ and few below (4266, 4200, 4166, 4100, 4000, 3900 3866MHz) with VCCIO and SA starting at 1.18v up to 1.35v for each speed step as well as RAM voltage, starting at 1.35 up to 1.5v (both in RAMv and Trainig Voltage), almost all of them didn't pass MemTest or Crashed righ on OS.
> 
> After all tests I did, the one I had from before is slightly more stable, it is able to run MemTest64 and give error but is not crashing BOSD, but I canty do much thingsm sooner or later this also goes BSOD:
> 
> Speed: 4000MHz (Base clocl at 100.05MHz). Voltage: 1.52v (VCCIO: 1.19 VCCSA: 1.27)
> 
> CAS Latency: 17
> tRCD: 18
> tRP: 18
> tRAS: 38
> 
> tRC: 54
> tWR:24
> tCWL: 16
> tRRD_S: 6
> tRRD_L: 10
> tWTR_S: 8
> tWTR_L: 15
> tCCD_S: 6
> tCCD_L: 10
> tRFC: 450
> tRTP: 15
> tFAW: 48
> Command Rate: 2
> 
> tREFI: 15600
> 
> I'v seen that tRC should be = tRP+tRAS, is it? and all users running tRFC:374 but seems to be working with my kit, I tryed to set it at 700 as does the XMP but didn'y work either. Also I couldn't find any recommended setting for tCCD_S/L, how is it calculated?? I guseed that it could't be lower than reding timing.


Your tRAS, tRTP and tWR seem to be out of whack.
Try tRTP= 8, tWR=16, and tRAS=43 and see if that helps. @Jpmboy is going to kill me for suggesting that though 

(tWR should usually be 2x tRTP).

If that doesn't help, set tRTP back to 15 and set tWR to 30 and set tRAS to 43 and see if that is stable at least. If it boots, it might be. (technically with a tRTP of 15, tRAS would be 50 (CAS+tRP+15=TRAS), but I don't think the Gigabyte bios will allow a value that high without crashing.


----------



## KedarWolf

Falkentyne said:


> Your tRAS, tRTP and tWR seem to be out of whack.
> Try tRTP= 8, tWR=16, and tRAS=43 and see if that helps. @Jpmboy is going to kill me for suggesting that though
> 
> (tWR should usually be 2x tRTP).
> 
> If that doesn't help, set tRTP back to 15 and set tWR to 30 and set tRAS to 43 and see if that is stable at least. If it boots, it might be. (technically with a tRTP of 15, tRAS would be 50 (CAS+tRP+15=TRAS), but I don't think the Gigabyte bios will allow a value that high without crashing.


I run it just fine at 57. 

Edit: Never mind, I thought you meant tRC. :/


----------



## KedarWolf

There is a new thermal paste, Thermalright TFX which is nonconductive and has an amazing 14.3 W/m.k conductivity. My current Mastermaker Nano has 11 W/m.k conductivity.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955394312.html


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> There is a new thermal paste, Thermalright TFX which is nonconductive and has an amazing 14.3 W/m.k conductivity. My current Mastermaker Nano has 11 W/m.k conductivity.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955394312.html



$50 for 6g domestically :lachen:


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> $50 for 6g domestically :lachen:


That link I provided, $24 USD and under $2 shipping to Canada.


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> That link I provided, $24 USD and under $2 shipping to Canada.



4-6 week shipping time though


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> 4-6 week shipping time though


From them it's always a 7-10 in reality though, still slow, but I don't mind waiting. And you might get quicker shipping from another seller on the site, there is a few.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Improved my OC. 4600MHZ-17-18-18-36-2T. Still using same voltage 1.51v IO 1.21875v SA 1.26250v 1300%+ HCI Memtest. What else can I change to improve latency?


----------



## Nizzen

SoldierRBT said:


> Improved my OC. 4600MHZ-17-18-18-36-2T. Still using same voltage 1.51v IO 1.21875v SA 1.26250v 1300%+ HCI Memtest. What else can I change to improve latency?


Looks like you killed it 

Is it a very good binned cpu?

Nice job !


----------



## Jpmboy

no hiccups yet at 4200c17 with 64GB. x299 R6EO


----------



## The Pook

Thinking of grabbing a second kit of RAM and making the move up to 32GB. Hopefully the second kit can do the same timings as the first kit so I don't have to start over


----------



## centvalny

5.1 and 5.1G

5KC18

Edited, sorry my bad wrong thread.


----------



## Jpmboy

centvalny said:


> 5.1 and 5.1G
> 
> 5KC18


 Nice! But stability testing? I mean, XTU uses about 1GB, R15 less, and hyperPi can run pass at 4000c12 and 1.9V (which will fail any stability test instantly). This is a 24/7 stability thread...


----------



## centvalny

Jpmboy said:


> Nice! But stability testing? I mean, XTU uses about 1GB, R15 less, and hyperPi can run pass at 4000c12 and 1.9V (which will fail any stability test instantly). This is a 24/7 stability thread...


You are right. I will try to test stability with this system and post back the results.


----------



## truehighroller1

@Jpmboy So I noticed that my tFAW setting was off and fixed it and now 4000 seems to be way more stable and my latency is better and my read write etc is better. Are my tRRD_L, tRTP, tWTR, and tCKE to low as well?

Also, I tore down my whole water cooling system yesterday and did a well needed clean up of the radiators water lines etc. and now my temps are better then they already were! Looks a lot cleaner now too. I through in some nice quick disconnects to make my life easier when I need to clean the system too! Still working air out right now.


----------



## 113802

Picked up a DDR4 4400Mhz B-Die G.Skill kit. I got it with the intention of underclocking it and not expecting to be able to run it at the XMP profile speed. I currently have it at 3866Mhz w/ 1.4v in my current rig with the primary timings set below. Any suggestions on changing any of the timings?


----------



## truehighroller1

Alright, I finally locked stuff down here @Jpmboy. These are my stable 4000Mhz settings, temps latency etc.. Thank you and whomever has posted useful information throughout this thread that helped me finally get a handle on my memory timings to be able to do this. I can push further now I think but I'm going to save everything in a profile first and let my air bubbles settle down a little more at this point first as this took a lot of fine tuning to finally accomplish..


----------



## Nizzen

WannaBeOCer said:


> Picked up a DDR4 4400Mhz B-Die G.Skill kit. I got it with the intention of underclocking it and not expecting to be able to run it at the XMP profile speed. I currently have it at 3866Mhz w/ 1.4v in my current rig with the primary timings set below. Any suggestions on changing any of the timings?


Trfc is way to high 🙂

Try trfc 320 or 374


----------



## KedarWolf

Nizzen said:


> Trfc is way to high 🙂
> 
> Try trfc 320 or 374


Hey guys, on mobile, scroll to the bottom of the overclock.net website and choose 'Use Desktop Version', it'll fix the posts full of gobblygook.


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm running my Hynix BFR Vengeance RGB 3200C16 kit now on the following settings:

RAM: 3000Mhz 12-15-15-35-400-1T 1.36v
CPU: 7700K @ 5Ghz 1.37v VCCIO 1.10v, VCCSA 1.05v.

Don't have screenshots at work but this is validated 1800% HCI stable.

Problem is, bit of a first world problem, this is the max I can seem to run. Any timing I change will result in either no POST or unstable RAM to the point of memory_management BSOD on splash / boot already.

Even increasing voltages to 1.45v RAM, 1.25v VCCIO and 1.20v VCCSA as a test will not result in any better stability. Dropping to 2T gives me a bit more room but not much and I prefer 1T.

What more can I try to get even lower timings on 3000. Specifically tRFC on 400 is pretty high for 3000Mhz as far as I know..

I would like to run like, 12-14-14-34-360-1T or something similar but so far I haven't been able to even get that to boot. More MHz is impossible, my 7700K IMC won't even do 3466 XMP with verified B-Die 4000+ kits...

BTW. I can run 2700Mhz 11-14-14-35-350 just fine on 1.42v with 1.15 IO and 1.05 SA. Would this be "better" or "faster" than 3000 on above timings?


----------



## The Pook

what board? what BIOS version? you shouldn't have an issue running XMP @ 3600 on Kaby Lake. Even Skylake could handle up to 4000 generally fine. 

I'd assume 3000 12-15-15 is marginally better than 2700 11-14-14 but just run AIDA64 Memory/Cache benchmark and run whatever gets better results. Just test both on a fresh boot with nothing else running.


----------



## Imprezzion

The board is a MSI Z170A Gaming M7 with the 1J BIOS (last version before Spectre / meltdown patches) and I also tested it on a Z270 Pro Carbon (my spare) and a Z170 Maximus Hero. All of them lock out on 3200Mhz. I cannot even get 3600 to boot even on stock CPU settings with a 3466C16 B-Die kit.

That same kit, in the same Maximus Hero, with a 6700K runs 4000 C18 just fine in my mates system. It's 100% my 7700K IMC limiting the speed. 3200 is very difficult to get stable on low timings so I just run 3000 in whatever the lowest timings are that I can sustain and the BFR kit runs lower timings on 3000 than the B-Die kit does (it won't do 1T C12).


----------



## 113802

Nizzen said:


> Trfc is way to high 🙂
> 
> Try trfc 320 or 374


Thanks! It is stable with trfc at 320 and with a decent performance boost. Anything else I should be changing on this kit?


----------



## warbucks

*Tighten timings further*

Looking for further suggestions on timings I should tighten up further. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Using G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 4266 sticks at the moment.


----------



## munternet

warbucks said:


> Looking for further suggestions on timings I should tighten up further. Any thoughts are appreciated.
> 
> Using G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 4266 sticks at the moment.


I'm no expert but I would look at trying to get the tRFC into the 300s and the tREFI above 50000.
Also tFAW should be 4x tRRD_s once you get it sorted 
CL may be able to drop a notch or two first also.


----------



## warbucks

munternet said:


> I'm no expert but I would look at trying to get the tRFC into the 300s and the tREFI above 50000.
> Also tFAW should be 4x tRRD_s once you get it sorted
> CL may be able to drop a notch or two first also.


I was able to tighten up tRFC and tFAW is now 4 x tRRD_s. I'll work on tREFI now.


----------



## The Pook

Samsung 64GB (32x2) DDR4-2666 M-Die Overclocking


----------



## The Pook

send an adult, I need assistance 

my second kit of RAM came in (same exact kit as my existing kit) and having some issues. 

Old kit only, boots and is stable at DDR4-4160 16-18-18-34 2T @ 1.45v and VCCIO+SA @ 1.20v. Tightened subs and tertiaries. 

New kit only, boots and is stable at DDR4-4160 16-18-18-34 2T @ 1.45v and VCCIO+SA @ 1.20v. Tightened subs and tertiaries, identical to above. 

But when I put in both kits I can't boot at 4133, either with the tightened profile or with XMP. I can't boot at all above ~3800, and I instantly fail RAM Test above 3600. 

I've bumped up vDIMM to 1.5v and VCCIO/SA to 1.25v to no avail. Other than admitting defeat and trying to dial in optimal 3600 timings, is there anything else I could try to keep my RAM at least >4000?


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Bummer board don't like all four dimms filled


----------



## kignt

Spoiler






The Pook said:


> send an adult, I need assistance
> 
> my second kit of RAM came in (same exact kit as my existing kit) and having some issues.
> 
> Old kit only, boots and is stable at DDR4-4160 16-18-18-34 2T @ 1.45v and VCCIO+SA @ 1.20v. Tightened subs and tertiaries.
> 
> New kit only, boots and is stable at DDR4-4160 16-18-18-34 2T @ 1.45v and VCCIO+SA @ 1.20v. Tightened subs and tertiaries, identical to above.
> 
> But when I put in both kits I can't boot at 4133, either with the tightened profile or with XMP. I can't boot at all above ~3800, and I instantly fail RAM Test above 3600.
> 
> I've bumped up vDIMM to 1.5v and VCCIO/SA to 1.25v to no avail. Other than admitting defeat and trying to dial in optimal 3600 timings, is there anything else I could try to keep my RAM at least >4000?






I was afraid of using four sticks on Taichi board. Try loosening tertiary's: tWRRD_dr and _dd, tWRWR_dr and _dd, both to 6 or higher. Or try see if auto for some settings work. Beyond that, idk. 

I attempted to mix 2x16gb b-die and 2x16gb rev.E together on z370 Taichi, but gave up trying to stabilize...


----------



## The Pook

kignt said:


> I was afraid of using four sticks on Taichi board. Try loosening tertiary's: tWRRD_dr and _dd, tWRWR_dr and _dd, both to 6 or higher. Or try see if auto for some settings work. Beyond that, idk.



No dice. Tried setting them all to 8 and tried with them set them to auto, still won't boot above 3800 and isn't stable above 3600.

Able to run @ 3618 15-17-17-34 2T with all 4 sticks, but it's ~7GB/s slower in read/write/copy and ~2ns slower than what I run every day at 4160. 

Thinking of maybe returning it and trying with this RAM (16x2 DDR4-3600 CL17) but I'd have to bank on the kit OCing reasonably well and I'd have to sell my other 8x2 kit. 

sad days


----------



## kignt

Spoiler






The Pook said:


> No dice. Tried setting them all to 8 and tried with them set them to auto, still won't boot above 3800 and isn't stable above 3600.
> 
> Able to run @ 3618 15-17-17-34 2T with all 4 sticks, but it's ~7GB/s slower in read/write/copy and ~2ns slower than what I run every day at 4160.
> 
> Thinking of maybe returning it and trying with this RAM (16x2 DDR4-3600 CL17) but I'd have to bank on the kit OCing reasonably well and I'd have to sell my other 8x2 kit.
> 
> sad days






Aida64 doesn't seem very representative of performance compared to geekbench3/4, for example. I'm looking at aida less and less. You should find having 2 ranks per channel is slightly more advantageous than 1 rank per channel. But the clocks definitely won't reach as high as. Example, https://redd.it/c5qncy. 
The attempt with 4x8gb b-die dimms might be re-confirming the theory that daisy-chain layout boards run more optimal in 2-dimm configs.


----------



## SoldierRBT

3200C14 @ 4800 18-22-22-42 Auto settings.


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200C14 @ 4800 18-22-22-42 Auto settings.


Nice


----------



## The Pook

kignt said:


> Aida64 doesn't seem very representative of performance compared to geekbench3/4, for example. I'm looking at aida less and less. You should find having 2 ranks per channel is slightly more advantageous than 1 rank per channel. But the clocks definitely won't reach as high as. Example, https://redd.it/c5qncy.
> The attempt with 4x8gb b-die dimms might be re-confirming the theory that daisy-chain layout boards run more optimal in 2-dimm configs.



Yeah, I've been learning that over the past few days  

Basically my options:

a) settle with what I have, 4x8 DDR4-3600 at fairly bad timings. CL18 fails RAM Test about 2 hours in, CL19 seems okay. 

b) buy something like the Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master that's T-Topology (and has a track record in the Aorus owners thread for clocking well with 4 DIMMs) and sell my Taichi

c) return the kits I have and buy a 2x16 kit and hope it OCs better. only worthwhile options are the cheaper ~$270 RGB F4-3600C17D-32GTZR, or the more expensive ~$310 F4-3600C17D-32GTZKW

a) makes my heart hurt, b) makes my brain hurt, and c) makes my wallet hurt. 

leaning to C but if I get a 16x2 kit and it OCs equally poorly as 4x8 then I'll probably murder someone

:sad-smile


----------



## centvalny

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200C14 @ 4800 18-22-22-42 Auto settings.


Awesome sticks!


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> Yeah, I've been learning that over the past few days
> 
> Basically my options:
> 
> a) settle with what I have, 4x8 DDR4-3600 at fairly bad timings. CL18 fails RAM Test about 2 hours in, CL19 seems okay.
> 
> b) buy something like the Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master that's T-Topology (and has a track record in the Aorus owners thread for clocking well with 4 DIMMs) and sell my Taichi
> 
> c) return the kits I have and buy a 2x16 kit and hope it OCs better. only worthwhile options are the cheaper ~$270 RGB F4-3600C17D-32GTZR, or the more expensive ~$310 F4-3600C17D-32GTZKW
> 
> a) makes my heart hurt, b) makes my brain hurt, and c) makes my wallet hurt.
> 
> leaning to C but if I get a 16x2 kit and it OCs equally poorly as 4x8 then I'll probably murder someone
> 
> :sad-smile


If you are able to return the kits you have and get the 16x2 sticks it seems like it might be a good move for future proofing, even if the taichi isn't that great you could still sell and get something like an apex maybe?


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> If you are able to return the kits you have and get the 16x2 sticks it seems like it might be a good move for future proofing, even if the taichi isn't that great you could still sell and get something like an apex maybe?



can't return one because I bought it back in January so I'd have to return one and sell the other 

I'll figure something out. If these sticks would do something like CL 14/15 @ 3600 I wouldn't even bother.


----------



## SoldierRBT

centvalny said:


> SoldierRBT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3200C14 @ 4800 18-22-22-42 Auto settings.
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome sticks!
Click to expand...

Thanks. 4800C18 is the best these sticks can do. 4800C18 can boot and enter Windows with 1.31875v SA (1.30v boots but crash loading Windows) and to be stable on Memtest it needs around 1.38v SA. I can't get the them to boot at 4900C18. I tried all the way up to 1.45v SA and nothing. Don't know if IMC can't handle 4900 or this kit can't.


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> can't return one because I bought it back in January so I'd have to return one and sell the other
> 
> I'll figure something out. If these sticks would do something like CL 14/15 @ 3600 I wouldn't even bother.


Maybe buy the 16x2 and try them out and return whatever comes off second best.
You can always murder someone later


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I bought myself a nice upgrade. 
Getting a MSI Z390 Ace with a 9900K tomorrow.

I'm curious how high I can get my Hynix BFR Vengeance RGB 3200C16 kit now. It's currently on the following settings on a Z170 Gaming M7 with a 7700K.

RAM: 3000Mhz 12-15-15-35-400-1T 1.36v.

Is there any info on average frequencies and latency a BFR kit can run?
I'm quite curious how these match up against my Vengeance RGB 3466 B-Die kit in terms of overclocking.

And how much voltage can I put on the RAM, IO and SA on a 9900K "24/7 safe" and are there any tips and tricks for optimization on the 9900K platform such as termination voltages and such I should take note of?


----------



## KedarWolf

Imprezzion said:


> Well, I bought myself a nice upgrade.
> Getting a MSI Z390 Ace with a 9900K tomorrow.
> 
> I'm curious how high I can get my Hynix BFR Vengeance RGB 3200C16 kit now. It's currently on the following settings on a Z170 Gaming M7 with a 7700K.
> 
> RAM: 3000Mhz 12-15-15-35-400-1T 1.36v.
> 
> Is there any info on average frequencies and latency a BFR kit can run?
> I'm quite curious how these match up against my Vengeance RGB 3466 B-Die kit in terms of overclocking.
> 
> And how much voltage can I put on the RAM, IO and SA on a 9900K "24/7 safe" and are there any tips and tricks for optimization on the 9900K platform such as termination voltages and such I should take note of?


Best practice for 24/7 use b-die RAM is to keep RAM voltage at 1.45v or under, and SA and VCCIO at 1.25v or under. :h34r-smi

Edit: Yours is Hynix I just read so I dunno if the above applies to it as well.


----------



## Imprezzion

KedarWolf said:


> Best practice for 24/7 use b-die RAM is to keep RAM voltage at 1.45v or under, and SA and VCCIO at 1.25v or under. :h34r-smi
> 
> Edit: Yours is Hynix I just read so I dunno if the above applies to it as well.


I have a kit of both Hynix (Vengeance RGB 3200 CL16) and Samsung (Vengeance RGB 3466 CL16) but on my 7700K the Hynix kit clocks better as it's limited to 3000Mhz by the IMC and the BFR runs lower timings on 3000.

Problem is, now that I'm getting a 9900K which shouldn't be frequency limited in terms of IMC I can finally put my BFR to the test vs my B-Die's on higher frequencies. I plan to see if either of my kits will do 4000 (or more) stable but I have no idea if BFR can even get to 4000 regardless of timings and voltage.

Oh well, we'll see tomorrow.


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> Maybe buy the 16x2 and try them out and return whatever comes off second best.
> You can always murder someone later



think I might hold off on murdering anyone and/or buying new RAM/another board 

got it to be (seemingly) stable at CL15 @ 3620 (100.5 x 36), hopefully if this comes back stable I can drop tRCD and tRAS (maybe 15-15-15 or even 14-15-15?) and I can fiddle with the subs and tertiaries a bit more. 

I can deal with 3600 @ CL15 but not so much 3600 @ CL19 :laughings


----------



## 113802

The Pook said:


> think I might hold off on murdering anyone and/or buying new RAM/another board
> 
> got it to be (seemingly) stable at CL15 @ 3620 (100.5 x 36), hopefully if this comes back stable I can drop tRCD and tRAS (maybe 15-15-15 or even 14-15-15?) and I can fiddle with the subs and tertiaries a bit more.
> 
> I can deal with 3600 @ CL15 but not so much 3600 @ CL19 :laughings


I went through 3 different Samsung B die kits and all ended up running at 3866Mhz @ CL15. A Corsair Vengeance 4266Mhz kit, G.Skill 4400Mhz kit so I returned both of these kits and bought a T-Force XTREEM 4133Mhz kit for $139.


----------



## The Pook

WannaBeOCer said:


> I went through 3 different Samsung B die kits and all ended up running at 3866Mhz @ CL15. A Corsair Vengeance 4266Mhz kit, G.Skill 4400Mhz kit so I returned both of these kits and bought a T-Force XTREEM 4133Mhz kit for $139.



One kit can do CL15 4000 and the other can do CL15 4133, the issue is running all 4 sticks together on a daisy chain motherboard.


----------



## Imprezzion

If my Vengeance B-Die proves to be a bad clocking sample I'll get a set of G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3600C16D-16GTZR. 4000 C15 sounds very nice as a goal for me


----------



## Robostyle

Could someone direct me, where I can find nice read regarding DR sticks OC?


----------



## The Pook

Dialing in my RAM for ~3600, this is where I'm at so far. 










Raised BLCK a bit (so now @ DDR4-3620), dropped vDIMM to 1.475v and VCCIO/SA to 1.25v, dropped tRAS to 32, dropped tRFC to 275, and set tREFI to 62420 and retesting again now. 

Can't POST at 13 CAS or 15 tRCD/tRP so pretty much just working on subs/tertiaries at this point. 3733 fails almost instantly even at 18-18-18 and CR1 isn't happening above ~3000.


----------



## truehighroller1

I was able to get 4100 stable at 17-18-18-41-400 last night. Was having issues with 4200 but was getting it to boot with three sticks and sometimes four. I get a feeling the number 2 spot stick is weaker then the other sticks as it was failing to boot the most. Running a test at 4100 at home while out working. I've also been able to boost my cache to 3.2 instead of 3.0. I have 4000 stable for sure now so, if I can get this 4100 for sure stable, I'll try pushing 4200 again after saving the settings for 4100.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I see tREFI at 60420 but still wow that's a lot
Don't think that is holding you down a little ?


----------



## The Pook

I can max it out without any issue, I just like the sneaky 420 in tREFI. it pleases the RAM OCing gods. :h34r-smi

that passed, trying a bit tighter at 3636 now. Tried going for 3680 and failed ~5 seconds in


----------



## SgtRotty

Im running at 4000cl16, should my RTL/IOL be around 61,60,6,6? Or is that off for 4000?


----------



## The Pook

Any higher than 3630 higher fails within the first hour 

3630 went for 2 hours before I stopped it, gonna let it run overnight to make sure. 

tRAS might go a bit lower, but the other primaries won't budge. Still might be able to crank down some of the secondaries/tertiaries.


----------



## Imprezzion

Haven't bought RAM Test yet so using HCI for now with 16 instances running 750MB per instance so 12GB testing out of the 16GB i run.

I was playing with my Vengeance RGB with Hynix BFR (v5.13) for a bit which ran 3000 12-15-15-35-400-1T 1.36v for as long as i had them but as i now have a 9900K with a proper IMC i wanted to see what they can do.
Too bad frequency scaling is horrible. On 3000 they can run really low timings but even on 3200 i have to bump up pretty high to 14-16-16 so not worth it..
They also can't boot anything over 3800 with any timings. 

So, i tried to lower the timings a bit. The modules do not get hot at all so i decided to cram a bunch of volts on them and see what they can do.

On 1.440v they can boot 12-14-14 but not stable enough to even run Prime Large. So, CL, tRCD and tRP cannot go any lower. So, i put my attention to tRAS. I used to run 35 on 1.36v. Now i'm testing with 1.440v and it seems to run 30 just fine. Mind you, it won't even POST on 30 and barely boots on 32 with 1.36v. These chips really respond well to voltage for tRAS so it seems. 
If this is stable for like, 100% on 12GB i'll drop to 28 and see where it stops. Then i'm going to try to get tRFC lower as 400 is pretty high for 3000Mhz. If i get that lower as well i'll see how high tREFI will go. It runs 12480 now. 

Any other timings i should look at? Screenshot of current timings attached.


----------



## elderan

Looking for anyone who has the asus rogue dominus and what memory I should get?

I was looking at CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM I really only want 6 sticks to start out with I think.


----------



## truehighroller1

Alright, I was not able to get 4100 stable, came close though had 800% hci then got errors and it wasn't heat related.. I just don't think the IMC can handle it tbh. I was able to get 3200 cache 4000 memory at 17-17-17-41 1300%+ hci though which is good for the 7900x at 4.8ghz @ 1.26 volts so I think I'll settle. I might be able to tighten things up still we'll see.


----------



## The Pook

truehighroller1 said:


> Alright, I was not able to get 4100 stable, came close though had 800% hci then got errors and it wasn't heat related.. I just don't think the IMC can handle it tbh. I was able to get 3200 cache 4000 memory at 17-17-17-41 1300%+ hci though which is good for the 7900x at 4.8ghz @ 1.26 volts so I think I'll settle. I might be able to tighten things up still we'll see.



I went from being able to bench at 4200 to not being able to boot much above 3600, it stinks 

But 0 real world difference between ~3633 14-16-16 and 4133 16-18-18, even in synthetics the difference isn't _that_ huge.


----------



## truehighroller1

The Pook said:


> I went from being able to bench at 4200 to not being able to boot much above 3600, it stinks
> 
> But 0 real world difference between ~3633 14-16-16 and 4133 16-18-18, even in synthetics the difference isn't _that_ huge.


Yeah, that what I figured too. It's not that big of a difference. I could honestly probably drop it back down to 3600 now and tighten it up and get about the same performance.


----------



## Imprezzion

I don't see a lot of difference in latency's outside of bandwidth between 3000 C12 and 4000 C17 on my BFR vs B-Die kits either and the BFR runs 1T on 1.36v which the B-Die kit won't do past 3600 and it needs 1.44v to even run C17 on 4000 so... I gave that kit to my buddy who's going to use a 3800X build and I'm keeping the BFR kit for now.

All I have to do is optimize the secondaries and tertiaries.

Especially tREFI which is at 12480 and can probably go higher and tFAW (which is not at 4x TRRD yet).

Any other timings I should pay extra attention to? My primaries are:
3000Mhz CL12-15-15-30-400-1T 1.36v. None of them can budge even with 1.45v. It will sort of run 14 on the two primaries but can't get it stable and tRAS cannot do 380 as it will BSOD with memory_management in HCI.


----------



## munternet

I know these results are not fantastic compared to some ,but it's pretty reliable, 1,000% Memtest, and I don't get any BFV crashes back to desktop so I'm happy with it.
Unless there is something obvious that I've missed? I think I will leave it here and call it a day


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> I know these results are not fantastic compared to some ,but it's pretty reliable, 1,000% Memtest, and I don't get any BFV crashes back to desktop so I'm happy with it.
> Unless there is something obvious that I've missed? I think I will leave it here and call it a day



Some of your secondaries are high, should be able to drop some of them by half. 

and 1.48v on 14nm? remind me never to buy PC parts from you :laughings


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> Some of your secondaries are high, should be able to drop some of them by half.
> 
> and 1.48v on 14nm? remind me never to buy PC parts from you :laughings


Thanks The Pook, I was going to leave it at that. Now I will have to make more changes!
It's OK you won't see any of my stuff for sale. Till death do us part 
I thought 1.48 was fine if the thermals are managed? It never peaks over 83c. Runs BFV low 70's


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> Thanks The Pook, I was going to leave it at that. Now I will have to make more changes!
> It's OK you won't see any of my stuff for sale. Till death do us part
> I thought 1.48 was fine if the thermals are managed? It never peaks over 83c. Runs BFV low 70's



Voltage degradation is independent of temperature (at least it is above 0c). Intel said for 22nm that 1.55v was where instant degradation starts to happen but AFAIK they haven't published anything for 14nm. 










PDF for that document is here but the link is dead.

Smaller lithography is more sensitive to voltage, but even for quick CPU-Z validations for HWBOT I draw the line at 1.45v for 14nm.


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> Voltage degradation is independent of temperature (at least it is above 0c). Intel said for 22nm that 1.55v was where instant degradation starts to happen but AFAIK they haven't published anything for 14nm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PDF for that document is here but the link is dead.
> 
> Smaller lithography is more sensitive to voltage, but even for quick CPU-Z validations for HWBOT I draw the line at 1.45v for 14nm.


I do appreciate the advice as always although I am just going to ignore it anyway 
If the 8700k lets go I will probably get a 9900k to replace it with, so there will be a silver lining 
I'm curious to see how long it lasts and I think I've had it running at that since about close to the start of the year.
Off to tinker with those secondaries now


----------



## truehighroller1

munternet said:


> I do appreciate the advice as always although I am just going to ignore it anyway
> If the 8700k lets go I will probably get a 9900k to replace it with, so there will be a silver lining
> I'm curious to see how long it lasts and I think I've had it running at that since about close to the start of the year.
> Off to tinker with those secondaries now


I've never listened and have not had a cpu die ever and I'm old. I've been overclocking since the days of slot card adapters with dip switches for cranking up voltages.


----------



## moorhen2

The Pook said:


> Voltage degradation is independent of temperature (at least it is above 0c). Intel said for 22nm that 1.55v was where instant degradation starts to happen but AFAIK they haven't published anything for 14nm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PDF for that document is here but the link is dead.
> 
> Smaller lithography is more sensitive to voltage, but even for quick CPU-Z validations for HWBOT I draw the line at 1.45v for 14nm.


Coffee Lake voltages.


----------



## ZloY SloN

Hey guys!
I've bought RAM kit 2x8GB G.Skill Aegis (F4-3000C16S-8GISB) 3000MHz @ 16-18-18-38 @ 1.35v. It is the worst RAM I have ever seen! It has almost no OC potential. I can only bump clock to 3200MHz (without changing timings), but it requires increasing voltage to 1.42v!!!
What can you say about this?
3000MHz @ 1.35v vs 3200MHz @ 1.42v. I can see some increasing of bandwidth in AIDA64 memory benchmark, but is it worth it? Should I stay with this OC or should I reset it to default clock and voltage? Is this voltage safe for DDR4?


----------



## The Pook

1.42v is no where near unsafe.


----------



## ZloY SloN

OK, thanks!


----------



## Falkentyne

The Pook said:


> Voltage degradation is independent of temperature (at least it is above 0c). Intel said for 22nm that 1.55v was where instant degradation starts to happen but AFAIK they haven't published anything for 14nm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PDF for that document is here but the link is dead.
> 
> Smaller lithography is more sensitive to voltage, but even for quick CPU-Z validations for HWBOT I draw the line at 1.45v for 14nm.


They have, actually.


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> Some of your secondaries are high, should be able to drop some of them by half.


I tried dropping the secondaries and the performance was up but I found BFV would kick me back to desktop even after passing 1,000% HCI Memtest.
There is probably a little more I can get out of it but I will leave it where it was for now. It usually kicks me to desktop just as we are about to have a win


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> I tried dropping the secondaries and the performance was up but I found BFV would kick me back to desktop even after passing 1,000% HCI Memtest.
> There is probably a little more I can get out of it but I will leave it where it was for now. It usually kicks me to desktop just as we are about to have a win



There's a BFV thread here on OCN, it's been a buggy mess since the update last week. I've been getting crashes to desktop too.


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> There's a BFV thread here on OCN, it's been a buggy mess since the update last week. I've been getting crashes to desktop too.


I saw that, but I haven't been kicked once with the more conservative settings. It seems to be more than a coincidence.
I will post back if I get kicked again.


----------



## manoy385

Just got a cheap Hynix CJR 16GB kit. Looking for advice on how to further improve my timings below at 1.4V:


----------



## Imprezzion

I would personally focus on seeing what the lowest CL is that still somewhat boots and runs on 1T 4000 and work from there. Can it go lower than 17?

After that tRP and tRCD would be my main focus and then tRAS and tRFC. tRAS is already decent so probably not much room in that and tRFC is hard to test / get stable and my BFR kit hates low tRFC so I am forced to run 400 at just 3000CL12 so, 500 on 4000 with CFR ain't that bad imo if B and C are similar in terms of clocking.

Still, 17 CL ain't bad but 22 for tRP and tRCD would be my focus for now if CL cannot go 16 or 15.


----------



## lionc

I upgraded from 2x8GB to 4x8GB on my Maximus Hero X (T-Topology) and in doing so had to buy a second kit. 

Is it optimal to use kit 1 spread across channel a1 b1 and kit 2 in a2 b2 or should I put kit 1 in channel a and kit 2 in channel b?

I'm currently doing the first method (basically just added the new kit to the empty slots) and it's working ok (4000 MHz CL17-18-18) but when tweaking I've noticed that the IOLs of the new kit are a bit higher, so I have 

CHA R0 13
CHA R1 15

CHA R0 13
CHB R1 15

wondering if it would be better to have all of CHA 13 and CHB 15.


----------



## manoy385

Imprezzion said:


> I would personally focus on seeing what the lowest CL is that still somewhat boots and runs on 1T 4000 and work from there. Can it go lower than 17?
> 
> After that tRP and tRCD would be my main focus and then tRAS and tRFC. tRAS is already decent so probably not much room in that and tRFC is hard to test / get stable and my BFR kit hates low tRFC so I am forced to run 400 at just 3000CL12 so, 500 on 4000 with CFR ain't that bad imo if B and C are similar in terms of clocking.
> 
> Still, 17 CL ain't bad but 22 for tRP and tRCD would be my focus for now if CL cannot go 16 or 15.


16-20-20-36 boots but is extremely unstable at 4000MHz. This timing is stable at 3733MHz but gets HCI memtest errors right away at 4000MHz even at 1.45V. 

17-21-21-41 fairs better but cannot get 4 passes with Passmark memtest86 or get to 400% HCI memtest coverage without errors. 17-22-22-41 1T at 1.4V passes both tests. 

It seems like Hynix CJR doesn't like low tRP and tRCD timings so I'm just trying to improve the subtimings now since I have some of them on Auto setting.


----------



## moorhen2

4400 straight 17's,with my 3200 c14 kit. Stable, not on your life, lol.


----------



## Imprezzion

Will it do anywhere near that on 1T? I'm curious how much of a difference this will make honestly 

All these results really tell me i need a better (Samsung B-Die) kit.. This Hynix BFR kit is fun for 3000Mhz but it cannot go anywhere near 3600 of higher and tRP and tRCD can't go under 15 even on 3000 and tRFC is stuck on 400 or higher at anything above 3000.

It's about time I got a proper B-Die kit lol. Which RGB kit (i need muh lights) should be the easiest and cheapest to get?


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Will it do anywhere near that on 1T? I'm curious how much of a difference this will make honestly
> 
> All these results really tell me i need a better (Samsung B-Die) kit.. This Hynix BFR kit is fun for 3000Mhz but it cannot go anywhere near 3600 of higher and tRP and tRCD can't go under 15 even on 3000 and tRFC is stuck on 400 or higher at anything above 3000.
> 
> It's about time I got a proper B-Die kit lol. Which RGB kit (i need muh lights) should be the easiest and cheapest to get?


These G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GTZR Trident Z RGB have been reported as clocking very well and I hear their lights are the best but there are other brands that are cheaper.


----------



## The Pook

Any RGB kit is gonna OC less than a similar non-RGB kit.


----------



## Nizzen

The Pook said:


> Any RGB kit is gonna OC less than a similar non-RGB kit.


You can turn it off 😉


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> These G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GTZR Trident Z RGB have been reported as clocking very well and I hear their lights are the best but there are other brands that are cheaper.


About €180 for that kit. Not that bad lol. 
I can get a set of Vengeance Pro 3600C18 which should be exclusive B-Die for much less tho. CMR16GX4M2C3600C18 for €141 lol. 
Or i take a chance on a just €90 3200C16 RGB Pro kit as it's either B-Die or CJR so a 50-50 basically lol. I need a cheap set of RAM anyway for some other builds so it's not like it's wasted if it isn't a 4.31 B-Die kit.


----------



## The Pook

Nizzen said:


> 😉



If you're going to post on OCN on mobile use the desktop version of the site or your posts are mostly gibberish.


----------



## ajn131

Thanks CptSpig. I picked up two dual-channel F4-3600C16D-16GTZ Kits and copy and pasted most of your settings. Running an X299 dark - doesn't seem to work with the Asrock timing configurator. I might pickup the quad-channel kit and see how X99 OCF does with one of these newer kits.


----------



## The Pook

ajn131 said:


> Thanks CptSpig. I picked up two dual-channel F4-3600C16D-16GTZ Kits and copy and pasted most of your settings. Running an X299 dark - doesn't seem to work with the Asrock timing configurator. I might pickup the quad-channel kit and see how X99 OCF does with one of these newer kits.



Impressive, good results  

Makes me wish either Intel or AMD would bring quad channel support to the mainstream platforms


----------



## ajn131

Memory settings. Guess the eVGA boards don't work with the Asrock utility.


----------



## Imprezzion

Luckily my MSI Z390 Ace has no issues with ASRock Timing Configurator lol.

I also know why my memory was so intermittent stable and the next run totally unstable.. my 9900K lost the lottery in terms of cache / uncore speed. 4.625Ghz cache is totally wierd and sometimes it appears stable but it seems to generate a lot of WHEA errors and sometimes it just totally fails and crashes a memtest within 50% even on 2133 cl15 jedec specs. 

I now run 4525Mhz cache and no more errors and wierd stability issues anymore lol. 

At least I could run 1600% now with tREFI at 24960 and tRRD 5 tFAW 20. 

Should I go even higher on the tREFI? Or try tRRD 4 with tFAW 16?


----------



## SteveRo

3600c15 -- a work in progress. io and sa @ ~ 1.25v, dramV @ ~1.44v

Question -- if I moved this 8700k cpu and memory to an Apex XI (currently on Apex X) would I be able to clock memory higher? - say -- 4500 maybe??


----------



## SteveRo

well shoot! Looks like 1 h/w failure in a 1 hr run. Should I up dramV just a hair? Anything else?


----------



## The Pook

SteveRo said:


> well shoot! Looks like 1 h/w failure in a 1 hr run. Should I up dramV just a hair? Anything else?



Set VCCIO, SA, and vDIMM to the highest you feel comfortable running 24/7, then find your max OC. When you're happy, tone down voltages until it's not stable.

Easier than just incrementally bumping voltages alongside frequency/timing changes.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> Nice! But stability testing? I mean, XTU uses about 1GB, R15 less, and hyperPi can run pass at 4000c12 and 1.9V (which will fail any stability test instantly). This is a 24/7 stability thread...


 @Jpmboy any point in getting Royal 4x8GB 3600 CL16 if I already own Trident Z 3600 CL16 , I mean are the Royal higher binned or anything, I don't even like the RGB. :/


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I managed to find a set of CMR16GX4M2C3466C16 secondhand which I verified with the seller to have v4.31 which is Corsairs version number for Samsung B-Die so I can finally retire my Hynix BFR's and work towards a proper frequency above 3000Mhz!

We'll see how high the RGB sticks will go. Aiming for 4000C17 1.35v 24/7 and any lower would be nice haha. I'm not scared to run 1.45v unless it doesn't result in noticable improvements..


----------



## munternet

No more crashes to desktop so far in BFV after setting secondary timings back to the more conservative settings even though the tighter settings passed HCI memtest 1,000%


----------



## KedarWolf

Okay, I cleaned to dust off my Trident Z with a soft rag, now my DIMM temps down from 43C to under 36C while running HCI MemTest, and I never thought they were THAT dusty. :/


Oh, ambient temp in my place is quite hot as well.


----------



## The Pook

My TridentZ gets up to 50c while running RAM Test, usually sits around 40-45c while gaming. High ambients here too, the goober who built my house didn't put a vent in the PC room so it's always at least 5F hotter than the rest of the house. 

No issues with stability though.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf said:


> Okay, I cleaned to dust off my Trident Z with a soft rag, now my DIMM temps down from 43C to under 36C while running HCI MemTest, and I never thought they were THAT dusty. :/
> 
> 
> Oh, ambient temp in my place is quite hot as well.


Never mind, those temps were WITHOUT HCI running, I'm getting under 41C hottest DIMM now.


----------



## SgtRotty

I had crash to desktop problems on BFV for a couple months till i figured out that stress test stable wasnt BFV stable. I loosened tRDD_L, tRDD_S by one notch. And tWTR_S, tWTR_L as well. All BFV game stable now two weeks straight 4 hours a day!


----------



## The Pook

SgtRotty said:


> I had crash to desktop problems on BFV for a couple months till i figured out that stress test stable wasnt BFV stable. I loosened tRDD_L, tRDD_S by one notch. And tWTR_S, tWTR_L as well. All BFV game stable now two weeks straight 4 hours a day!



if you're going to post on OCN on mobile, use the desktop version of the site or your post will be gibberish. there's a thread about it in the Bugs subforum.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


> My TridentZ gets up to 50c while running RAM Test, usually sits around 40-45c while gaming. High ambients here too, the goober who built my house didn't put a vent in the PC room so it's always at least 5F hotter than the rest of the house.
> No issues with stability though.


lol - if my home office did nort have a mini-split and a temp window unit (for summer)... it be like "throw more water on the rock" in here. :no-smil


KedarWolf said:


> Never mind, those temps were WITHOUT HCI running, I'm getting under 41C hottest DIMM now.


on the tridents, it seems that 45C is generally the point where hot flips (and errors) can occur.


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> on the tridents, it seems that 45C is generally the point where hot flips (and errors) can occur.


I put the monarch coolers on my 4 trident z sticks and came down from max ~43c to 32c
There seemed to be a fair bit of heat due to the spacing of the sticks
I'm fairly sure it helps with my stability


----------



## pegadroid

help for ram timing 3200MHz.
i can boot to windows with 1.350v 3200MHz, 16-18-18-39. but when open game fifa 19, not launch. when test with aida64 bsod
this problem wrong ram timing?
4X8GB CMR32GX4M4C3466C16 and my i7 6700k overclok to 4.6Ghz 1.350v. mobo asus z170 deluxe
----------------------------------------------

on 3000Mhz 1.3000V 15-16-16-39 i can run Google Stress App 1hour with no error


----------



## Imprezzion

Those timings are super loose for 3200 on that kit. So I doubt it's timing related honestly. What does HCI Memtest say in 3200?

Also, just for testing, test with the CPU and especially cache / uncore on stock frequencies and only RAM on 3200 just to rule that out.

There are 6700K's who will not do 3200 no matter what, my 7700K wouldn't go anything above 3000 either in 3 different boards so, it's possible the IMC just can't handle 3200.


----------



## pegadroid

Imprezzion said:


> Those timings are super loose for 3200 on that kit. So I doubt it's timing related honestly. What does HCI Memtest say in 3200?
> 
> Also, just for testing, test with the CPU and especially cache / uncore on stock frequencies and only RAM on 3200 just to rule that out.
> 
> There are 6700K's who will not do 3200 no matter what, my 7700K wouldn't go anything above 3000 either in 3 different boards so, it's possible the IMC just can't handle 3200.


at 3200 never test with hci, because bsod.
at 3000 with 15-16-16-39 is this good? or should I tighten again?


----------



## SteveRo

Thinking of getting a new motherboard - the apex 11 is about $170 more than the z390 gene - is the apex better at memory oc than the gene?


----------



## Imprezzion

pegadroid said:


> at 3200 never test with hci, because bsod.
> at 3000 with 15-16-16-39 is this good? or should I tighten again?


Can go way way tighter. I have the same RAM with the cheap Hynix BFR chips and mine do 12-15-15-35-400-1T on 1.36v no sweat at all.

Just slowly work your way down testing shortly with HCI and if it passes like, one single 100% pass just go lower. 1 timing at a time. Start with CL to 14, 13, 12 and so on and try to run 1T commandrate on 3000. 

Which version number is on the RAM modules btw? If it's 4.31 you can go way way low. If it's 5.39 you should be good as well.


----------



## pegadroid

Imprezzion said:


> Can go way way tighter. I have the same RAM with the cheap Hynix BFR chips and mine do 12-15-15-35-400-1T on 1.36v no sweat at all.
> 
> Just slowly work your way down testing shortly with HCI and if it passes like, one single 100% pass just go lower. 1 timing at a time. Start with CL to 14, 13, 12 and so on and try to run 1T commandrate on 3000.
> 
> Which version number is on the RAM modules btw? If it's 4.31 you can go way way low. If it's 5.39 you should be good as well.


3000 14-14-14-35 1N. 1.3000v
with this set, i cant boot windows ???? and i try to raise dram voltage to 1.350v its same cant boot. with same timing and 2N 1.3000v 100% hci with no error
btw i have same ram, v.4.31
--------------------------------------------------
edit :
i have error hci, on 3000 1.3v 14-14-14-35 2N, and now i try 14-15-15-35.-2N.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> lol - if my home office did nort have a mini-split and a temp window unit (for summer)... it be like "throw more water on the rock" in here. :no-smil
> 
> on the tridents, it seems that 45C is generally the point where hot flips (and errors) can occur.


 @Jpmboy


https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/9th-gen-direct-to-die-frame-kit-complete

Just bought a Rockit CPU delidding kit, direct die frame and some Quicksilver to remove the solder. 

For that $59.99 USD including shipping it's incredible and they had a promo, $9.99 shipping by FedEx to Canada! 

Edit: Question?

Do I want to not screw down the screws all the way for less mounting pressure on a direct die mount after delidding my CPU?


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> 
> https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/9th-gen-direct-to-die-frame-kit-complete
> 
> Just bought a Rockit CPU delidding kit, direct die frame and some Quicksilver to remove the solder.
> 
> For that $59.99 USD including shipping it's incredible and they had a promo, $9.99 shipping by FedEx to Canada!
> 
> Edit: Question?
> 
> Do I want to not screw down the screws all the way for less mounting pressure on a direct die mount after delidding my CPU?


that looks like a really cool product. Rockit is really stepping up! Yeah, with direct die you will not need the same pressure on the die as ya do on the IHS. Most direct die mount plates will block you from over tightening to the point of cracking the die. More importantly, verify the the waterblock is _really _flat.


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> that looks like a really cool product. Rockit is really stepping up! Yeah, with direct die you will not need the same pressure on the die as ya do on the IHS. Most direct die mount plates will block you from over tightening to the point of cracking the die. More importantly, verify the the waterblock is _really _flat.


I'm using Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut but I'm confident in doing so as my motherboard sits horizontally instead of vertical in my case so I have no worries about it getting on any components. 

Edit: I'm using an Evo Supremacy waterblock, but you think I should lap it or anything?

I saw a video on how to install it direct die, basically, just don't use the washers on the posts between the motherboard and the waterblock.


----------



## mouacyk

I've been eyeing this kit for a direct-die mount as well, especially with the quicksilver for easy solder cleanup. Think [email protected] is a good candidate for it? Stress testing puts me into the mid 90's right now on a Raystorm Pro water block with 480mm of total radiator space. I've tried up to [email protected] but stress temps are on the cusp of throttling. Ya know -- gotta widen that gap from the 3700X and its insane cache.


----------



## KedarWolf

mouacyk said:


> I've been eyeing this kit for a direct-die mount as well, especially with the quicksilver for easy solder cleanup. Think [email protected] is a good candidate for it? Stress testing puts me into the mid 90's right now on a Raystorm Pro water block with 480mm of total radiator space. I've tried up to [email protected] but stress temps are on the cusp of throttling. Ya know -- gotta widen that gap from the 3700X and its insane cache.


On my Supremacy Evo on one 360 rad, I get around 80C stress testing with RealBench at 5 GHz I think my VRout voltage is around 1.234v.

1344 FFTs in Prime95 have much lower temps. And this is with ambient temps 80C+. :h34r-smi


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> And this is with ambient temps 80C+



:thinking:


----------



## mouacyk

KedarWolf said:


> On my Supremacy Evo on one 360 rad, I get around 80C stress testing with RealBench at 5 GHz I think my VRout voltage is around 1.234v.
> 
> 1344 FFTs in Prime95 have much lower temps. And this is with ambient temps 80C+. :h34r-smi


No I don't live in a cooking pork belly.


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> :thinking:


Meant 80F.


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> 
> https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/9th-gen-direct-to-die-frame-kit-complete
> 
> Just bought a Rockit CPU delidding kit, direct die frame and some Quicksilver to remove the solder.
> 
> For that $59.99 USD including shipping it's incredible and they had a promo, $9.99 shipping by FedEx to Canada!
> 
> Edit: Question?
> 
> Do I want to not screw down the screws all the way for less mounting pressure on a direct die mount after delidding my CPU?


Will this kit work if you lap the chip thickness down for even better heat dissipation or will it be too thick?


----------



## mouacyk

munternet said:


> Will this kit work if you lap the chip thickness down for even better heat dissipation or will it be too thick?


I think we have to assume that Rockit calibrated the frame thickness to the standard (unlapped) die height. Also, depending on the material of the frame and its interaction with your waterblock cold plate, you may not want to lap it to accommodate an already lapped die. 

It's still risky regardless, because I've read of a few killed or maimed chips where some DIMM slots stopped working. I have to keep telling myself to set a conservative underclock and undervolt on both CPU and RAM before booting up.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> I'm using Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut but I'm confident in doing so as my motherboard sits horizontally instead of vertical in my case so I have no worries about it getting on any components.
> 
> Edit: I'm using an Evo Supremacy waterblock, but you think I should lap it or anything?
> 
> I saw a video on how to install it direct die, basically, just don't use the washers on the posts between the motherboard and the waterblock.


Yeah, the spring mount pressure is what applies the pressure to the die (not the mount post "nuts", directly). Adding or removing washers allows you to adjust the mount pressure with the mount nuts at their stops. post back with how it goes! 


munternet said:


> Will this kit work if you lap the chip thickness down for even better heat dissipation or will it be too thick?


as already noted, lapping the die is a (frankly) silly thing to do. You do not need to do that to thin the die... which might actually impede contact with the cold plate. it's basically fishing with handgrenades. It sounds like a good thing, but:


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> as already noted, lapping the die is a (frankly) silly thing to do. You do not need to do that to thin the die... which might actually impede contact with the cold plate. it's basically fishing with handgrenades. It sounds like a good thing, but:


 LOL


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, the spring mount pressure is what applies the pressure to the die (not the mount post "nuts", directly). Adding or removing washers allows you to adjust the mount pressure with the mount nuts at their stops. post back with how it goes!
> 
> as already noted, lapping the die is a (frankly) silly thing to do. You do not need to do that to thin the die... which might actually impede contact with the cold plate. it's basically fishing with handgrenades. It sounds like a good thing, but:


What about lapping my Evo Supremacy waterblock for direct die?


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> What about lapping my Evo Supremacy waterblock for direct die?


if it is flat you should not need to. And IMO, proper lapping requires a true-flat and hard work surface. If the block is really out of whack, sure lapping can help, but a few microns out and you're likely to make that worse unless you got a true-flat surface to lap the block on... just my opinion of lapping. It's like a can muffler.


----------



## KedarWolf

> https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/9th-gen-direct-to-die-frame-kit-complete
> 
> Just bought a Rockit CPU delidding kit, direct die frame and some Quicksilver to remove the solder.
> 
> For that $59.99 USD including shipping it's incredible and they had a promo, $9.99 shipping by FedEx to Canada!


Actually, the $9.99 shipping is two day FedEx shipping, ordered Wednesday, will have it Friday.


----------



## KedarWolf

moorhen2 said:


> 4400 straight 17's,with my 3200 c14 kit. Stable, not on your life, lol.


This is my system at 5.1HGz CPU, 4.7GHz cache, 4x8GB memory at 4200MHz 17-18-18-39 2T.

Edit: I'm 100% stress tested stable though. :h34r-smi


----------



## pegadroid

help i cant go to 1T .
3000 15-16-16-39 with 1.400V
do I have to increase dram voltage?


----------



## DanLillibridge

*Safe VCCSA/VCCIO voltage? Got an email reply from G.skill*

Hi all,

Just wanted to share an email response I got from G Skill regarding my auto XMP voltages on VCCSA and VCCIO. I Bolded/underlined the part in their response that im curious about.

*My email to them:*

_Hello,
I purchased the Trident 4400mhz kit to go along with my MSI Meg ace and 9900k. Seems to work with XMP right out of the box, however, the HWInfo reads out the following voltages for XMP:

VCCSA 1.47v
VCCIO 1.37v

I have heard that these are potentially dangerous voltages to the IMC, and I just wanted to get your input on that. Is it really safe to push that much voltage through?_



*Gskill Reply:*_

Hi Dan

High Voltage is the nature of the game for extreme performance. Those values are correct, however it is possible for each CPU to slightly vary is required value so in some cases minor tweaking may be necessary to find the perfect value. *There is no danger to high Voltage as long as the system is attempting to use it. However if you attempt high Voltages without adjusting other settings to utilize it, the system may have too much overVoltage and that may cause harm. *

Once the system is running stable at the proper specifications, the only concern is making sure CPU temperature remains within 80 degrees C under any scenario. CoreTemp is a good software that can record max temps reached so you can use that to check once in a while to see how warm it has gotten. 

As far as timings, the system defaults should work best. 

Thank youGSKILL SUPPORT_



It seems that the XMP values pre-determined for the 4400mhz from Gskill call for values that high according to their response.

Out of fear of frying my IMC I've managed to get a stable:
4166mhz 17-18-18-38 tRFC 500 @1.45V with some tightened secondary timings.
VCCSA 1.25v
VCCIO 1.25v 


Can anyone comment on this info? Has anyone been safely using upwards of 1.45V on the SA with no issue?


----------



## SteveRo

DanLillibridge said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just wanted to share an email response I got from G Skill regarding my auto XMP voltages on VCCSA and VCCIO. I Bolded/underlined the part in their response that im curious about.
> 
> *My email to them:*
> 
> _Hello,
> I purchased the Trident 4400mhz kit to go along with my MSI Meg ace and 9900k. Seems to work with XMP right out of the box, however, the HWInfo reads out the following voltages for XMP:
> 
> VCCSA 1.47v
> VCCIO 1.37v
> 
> I have heard that these are potentially dangerous voltages to the IMC, and I just wanted to get your input on that. Is it really safe to push that much voltage through?_
> 
> 
> 
> *Gskill Reply:*_
> 
> Hi Dan
> 
> High Voltage is the nature of the game for extreme performance. Those values are correct, however it is possible for each CPU to slightly vary is required value so in some cases minor tweaking may be necessary to find the perfect value. *There is no danger to high Voltage as long as the system is attempting to use it. However if you attempt high Voltages without adjusting other settings to utilize it, the system may have too much overVoltage and that may cause harm. *
> 
> Once the system is running stable at the proper specifications, the only concern is making sure CPU temperature remains within 80 degrees C under any scenario. CoreTemp is a good software that can record max temps reached so you can use that to check once in a while to see how warm it has gotten.
> 
> As far as timings, the system defaults should work best.
> 
> Thank youGSKILL SUPPORT_
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that the XMP values pre-determined for the 4400mhz from Gskill call for values that high according to their response.
> 
> Out of fear of frying my IMC I've managed to get a stable:
> 4166mhz 17-18-18-38 tRFC 500 @1.45V with some tightened secondary timings.
> VCCSA 1.25v
> VCCIO 1.25v
> 
> 
> Can anyone comment on this info? Has anyone been safely using upwards of 1.45V on the SA with no issue?


"There is no danger to high Voltage as long as the system is attempting to use it.

what the heck does that mean! of course the system is using it. ????


----------



## mouacyk

There is no problem with their statement; after all they provide "Limited LIFETIME Warranty" on "All DRAM memory modules". I however, would not risk my IMC either to use those volts for 24/7, because their warranty does not extend to the CPU.

This is no different than the blanket strategy to blast IMC voltage to 1.25v for DDR3 for easy XMP profiles. Then and now, we have seen that those suggested amounts are not needed and one can normally shave 100-200mV off when tuned.


----------



## wonderin17

I'm running my Kingston Predator 2x16 GB memory at standard 3000 mhz xmp profile. Timings are 15-17-17-36 2T.

Should I go into overclocking and is it even worth trying? Will I even see the difference in performance? 

Any experienced tips would be much appreciated.


----------



## munternet

wonderin17 said:


> I'm running my Kingston Predator 2x16 GB memory at standard 3000 mhz xmp profile. Timings are 15-17-17-36 2T.
> 
> Should I go into overclocking and is it even worth trying? Will I even see the difference in performance?
> 
> Any experienced tips would be much appreciated.


Do you have some info on the rest of your system?


----------



## The Pook

wonderin17 said:


> I'm running my Kingston Predator 2x16 GB memory at standard 3000 mhz xmp profile. Timings are 15-17-17-36 2T.
> 
> Should I go into overclocking and is it even worth trying? Will I even see the difference in performance?
> 
> Any experienced tips would be much appreciated.



Depends on the rest of the system specs and what you do with your rig. 

If it's just a gaming rig and you're not running an APU, probably not. You will get gains and it's free, though.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I have started to tune my new B-Die kit and my God past like, 3800 it needs a LOT of I/O and SA voltage lol. I can boot 4200 straight 17's but it needs at least 1.25 SA and 1.20 I/O to be anything in the neighborhood of stable lol. It won't even post at 4000 or higher under 1.15v SA or I/O so yeah..

EDIT: 4220Mhz 17-19-19-2T needs 1.45v vDIMM, 1.25 I/O and 1.30 SA to run stable. Any lower will give rounding errors in Prime95 Blend AVX enabled. I ran about 30 minutes without errors on 15.6GB load now so as a short baseline to test the IMC and timings that's fine. Going to see if I can run straight 17's now. I'm keeping tRAS and tRFC on 60-600 just to make sure they don't cause any instability. 

Luckily my CPU is quite happy in terms of temps on above voltages even on 4.925Mhz with 1.248v vCore. Peak temps at 83c with FMA3 Small FFT.

EDIT2: 4220 CL17 or 4020 CL16.. latency is nearly identical between the 2 (8 vs 8.16) but 4200 has more bandwidth but 4000 probably allows for tighter secondaries.. difficult...
EDIT3: Not stable on 4220 17-17-17 and not on 17-18-18 either. Still got rounding errors. 17-19-19-40-400-2T seems fine tho.
Goign to see if i can run 16-17-17 on 4020 as that should be marginally faster than 4220 17-19-19 and should be a bit easier on the IMC.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Well, I have started to tune my new B-Die kit and my God past like, 3800 it needs a LOT of I/O and SA voltage lol. I can boot 4200 straight 17's but it needs at least 1.25 SA and 1.20 I/O to be anything in the neighborhood of stable lol. It won't even post at 4000 or higher under 1.15v SA or I/O so yeah..
> 
> EDIT: 4220Mhz 17-19-19-2T needs 1.45v vDIMM, 1.25 I/O and 1.30 SA to run stable. Any lower will give rounding errors in Prime95 Blend AVX enabled. I ran about 30 minutes without errors on 15.6GB load now so as a short baseline to test the IMC and timings that's fine. Going to see if I can run straight 17's now. I'm keeping tRAS and tRFC on 60-600 just to make sure they don't cause any instability.
> 
> Luckily my CPU is quite happy in terms of temps on above voltages even on 4.925Mhz with 1.248v vCore. Peak temps at 83c with FMA3 Small FFT.
> 
> EDIT2: 4220 CL17 or 4020 CL16.. latency is nearly identical between the 2 (8 vs 8.16) but 4200 has more bandwidth but 4000 probably allows for tighter secondaries.. difficult...
> EDIT3: Not stable on 4220 17-17-17 and not on 17-18-18 either. Still got rounding errors. 17-19-19-40-400-2T seems fine tho.
> Goign to see if i can run 16-17-17 on 4020 as that should be marginally faster than 4220 17-19-19 and should be a bit easier on the IMC.


Seems pretty good so far 
Is that with the lights on or off? What are the temps?


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Seems pretty good so far
> Is that with the lights on or off? What are the temps?


I'm running HCI now after a 40 minute Blend AVX 15.6GB run was succesful at 4020Mhz 16-17-17-28-320-2T.

That's with the lights on BTW. RGB = everything in this build  

Temps at 1.449v vDIMM are around the 38-40c mark. I'll let it run while i clean my workshop and get some food. Will probably have a HCI run a few hours into it with screenies after. I do wanna tweak tREFI and tRRD / tFAW and such so it might not be as stable as it seems now as all tertiaries are just running Auto for now and are quite conservative (16667 tREFI and 9 tRRD's with 47 tFAW).

This kit, for being a non-binned 3466C16 kit is performing really well. Glad i found this kit secondhand for like, €99 with v4.31 B-Die's. And also B-Die's that clock well as they are probably lower binned than a stock 4000C17 kit. 

Only downside is my IMC is really REALLY not liking this. I'm purposely running stresses on 4.825 core with 4.425 cache and i still need to run 1.30v SA and 1.25v IO to not get IMC instability. I tried to run like, 4020 on higher timings (17-19-19-35-500-2T) and it still went completely mad with errors at 1.25 SA 1.20 IO. 

Oh well, this CPU is pretty bad anyway in terms of OC so if i nuke it.. /care. Shame for the €400 but still.. /care. I'll just get some random 9900K secondhand again..


----------



## truehighroller1

Lights on,


----------



## Imprezzion

Test done. 400% HCI with 95% RAM. Easy pass. 

It's running on 4020Mhz with 16-17-17-28-320-2T clocks with 1.44v vDIMM, 1.25v IO, 1.30v SA, 
CPU: 1.248v CPU but just to make sure it's stable i downclocked CPU and Cache 1 multi to 4.825 all-core AVX=0 and 4.425Mhz uncore / cache as i never really stressed my 4.925/4.525 clocks and i'm pretty sure they fail Prime95 blend anyway with the voltage i used.

As for temps, LED's on on "rainbow" and intake fans pointing more or less on the RAM DIMM's never got to 40c. Stayed around 38c for the full duration of the test. 

The primaries are as tight as they will go even tho tRAS might go even lower than 28 as this was as low as i tried initially as i thought i'd never get under 30. Too bad tRFC does generate errors on 280 so might be able to squeeze 300 out of it but not sure. As far as secondaries and tertiarties, they are all on Auto, you can see in the screenshot how loose my 2nd/3rd timings are in Timing Configurator 

I did test it with a 4000c17 config i found online but it was way too tight and errored in 40% lol. 

Going to test now with tighter 2nd/3rd (tRRD 5/7 tFAW 20, tWR 20 and tREFI probably in the 30000 range) and full CPU / cache clocks. 

Then once secondaries are done i probably won't touch 3rd or IO/RTL as i simply don't know enough about them unless someone here can give me some guidelines how to tweak 3rd and IO/RTL effectively. My board and BIOS give me every option you can ever think of in terms of RAM tweaking so.. 

EDIT: I just realised something when i was in the BIOS just now to adjust tREFI...
I still had RTL and Turn Around Timing Optimization enabled in the BIOS... Somehow it was stable on above settings with Auto enhancement enabled. I've disabled both RTL and TAT Optimization now and going to do a quick AIDA bench and then enabling optimization again, bench again and see if it has a positive impact, if any. I mean, it was stable anyway so if it works..


----------



## truehighroller1

Imprezzion said:


> Test done. 400% HCI with 95% RAM. Easy pass.
> 
> It's running on 4020Mhz with 16-17-17-28-320-2T clocks with 1.44v vDIMM, 1.25v IO, 1.30v SA,
> CPU: 1.248v CPU but just to make sure it's stable i downclocked CPU and Cache 1 multi to 4.825 all-core AVX=0 and 4.425Mhz uncore / cache as i never really stressed my 4.925/4.525 clocks and i'm pretty sure they fail Prime95 blend anyway with the voltage i used.
> 
> As for temps, LED's on on "rainbow" and intake fans pointing more or less on the RAM DIMM's never got to 40c. Stayed around 38c for the full duration of the test.
> 
> The primaries are as tight as they will go even tho tRAS might go even lower than 28 as this was as low as i tried initially as i thought i'd never get under 30. Too bad tRFC does generate errors on 280 so might be able to squeeze 300 out of it but not sure. As far as secondaries and tertiarties, they are all on Auto, you can see in the screenshot how loose my 2nd/3rd timings are in Timing Configurator
> 
> I did test it with a 4000c17 config i found online but it was way too tight and errored in 40% lol.
> 
> Going to test now with tighter 2nd/3rd (tRRD 5/7 tFAW 20, tWR 20 and tREFI probably in the 30000 range) and full CPU / cache clocks.
> 
> Then once secondaries are done i probably won't touch 3rd or IO/RTL as i simply don't know enough about them unless someone here can give me some guidelines how to tweak 3rd and IO/RTL effectively. My board and BIOS give me every option you can ever think of in terms of RAM tweaking so..
> 
> EDIT: I just realised something when i was in the BIOS just now to adjust tREFI...
> I still had RTL and Turn Around Timing Optimization enabled in the BIOS... Somehow it was stable on above settings with Auto enhancement enabled. I've disabled both RTL and TAT Optimization now and going to do a quick AIDA bench and then enabling optimization again, bench again and see if it has a positive impact, if any. I mean, it was stable anyway so if it works..


400%? OP says 1000% I did 2600+, ok.


----------



## ssateneth

Ssateneth --i7 8700K @5.0/4.9---3600Mhz-C15-22-22-37-2T----1.53v---VCCSA 1.23v---VCCIO 1.23v---HCI 400%
2nd + 3rd timings not tuned, SA + IO not tuned either, kinda dirty run, just wanted to show 3600MHz CAS15 32GB DIMMs works OK.


----------



## Imprezzion

truehighroller1 said:


> 400%? OP says 1000% I did 2600+, ok.


Cool. I'm not testing 1000%+ on just some random timings that are nowhere near final. If i did that every single time i adjusted anything i'd be bald and retired before i finally have a definitive OC. I mean, i'm not Prime95 Blending my CPU 24 hours every time i go up 25-100Mhz with a multi or bclk.. Once i found a clock it can 100% NOT run i'll test a little bit below that. Takes far less time. 

Besides, to get to the point:



OP said:


> HCI consider 1000% to be the 'golden standard' however for larger densities this can be time consuming. A minimal coverage of two laps (200%) is required to be added to the table for HCI for density over 16GB. *16GB or less requires a minimum of 4 laps (400%)*


Which is exactly what i did. 

I'm now testing some clock / timing combinations with AIDA64 and i have to admit 4220 17-19-19-32-320-2T is WAY faster than 4020 16-17-17-28-300-2T. Like, bandwidth is almost 6GB more and latency is almost a full 2ns lower. Let's see if i can get it to pass 400% on 4220 C17. And if it does, just to make sure, i'll let it run for the night and see if i can get 2000%.


----------



## truehighroller1

Imprezzion said:


> Cool. I'm not testing 1000%+ on just some random timings that are nowhere near final. If i did that every single time i adjusted anything i'd be bald and retired before i finally have a definitive OC. I mean, i'm not Prime95 Blending my CPU 24 hours every time i go up 25-100Mhz with a multi or bclk.. Once i found a clock it can 100% NOT run i'll test a little bit below that. Takes far less time.
> 
> Besides, to get to the point:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is exactly what i did.
> 
> I'm now testing some clock / timing combinations with AIDA64 and i have to admit 4220 17-19-19-32-320-2T is WAY faster than 4020 16-17-17-28-300-2T. Like, bandwidth is almost 6GB more and latency is almost a full 2ns lower. Let's see if i can get it to pass 400% on 4220 C17. And if it does, just to make sure, i'll let it run for the night and see if i can get 2000%.


I've been testing timings for over a year now. Not random, not final timings at all. Didn't realize you're using such low amount of memory my bad. I misunderstood your setup by not reading more info my bad.


----------



## Imprezzion

truehighroller1 said:


> I've been testing timings for over a year now. Not random, not final timings at all. Didn't realize you're using such low amount of memory my bad. I misunderstood your setup by not reading more info my bad.


Yeah I have plenty of modules to run 32GB but my other modules are v5.39 which is Hynix BFR and they can't do any useful timings above 3200.

Btw, how important is tREFI? It's really being a nuisance on 4220. For some reason it will not in any way run even 30000... Errors in HCI in like, the first 10%... I am testing on auto now which is 16774 just to see if it will run stable at all but...


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah I have plenty of modules to run 32GB but my other modules are v5.39 which is Hynix BFR and they can't do any useful timings above 3200.
> 
> Btw, how important is tREFI? It's really being a nuisance on 4220. For some reason it will not in any way run even 30000... Errors in HCI in like, the first 10%... I am testing on auto now which is 16774 just to see if it will run stable at all but...


tREFI = the amount of time your ram can do things before needing a recharge, so reasonably important.
tRFC = being the amount of time your ram can do nothing, while being recharged can be raised a little if it helps raise the tREFI.
Both contribute to latency so maybe try different combos before running HCI to see what performs best with your testing


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> tREFI = the amount of time your ram can do things before needing a recharge, so reasonably important.
> tRFC = being the amount of time your ram can do nothing, while being recharged can be raised a little if it helps raise the tREFI.
> Both contribute to latency so maybe try different combos before running HCI to see what performs best with your testing


First thing i tried is setting my bclk offsets to disabled so that my board doesn;t Auto it's way to 100.5Mhz which might cause unstability. I used to like the "free" 25Mhz on everything but still.. 

I've tried all night to get 4200 17-19-19 in any way stable but every time it gives errors. Can't seem to get it stable. Shame. Higher timings on 4200/4266 like 18-20-20 isn't very useful compared to 4000cl16 so yeah.

I'm now running HCI on 4000 16-17-17-28-320-2T with tighter subs like 46800 tREFI, 22 tRP, 10 tRTP, 36 tFAW to get it to x4 tRRD_L and 14 tRCW. 
I did try 20 tRP and 12 tRCW but this was super unstable so one of those 2 can't go any lower lol.
I'm at 200% now so better then 30% with 8 errors haha.

I do have to say, i tried to tweak RTL / IO as well using this guide: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/773966-comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide/
Problem is, ANY tweak i do to RTL / IO outside of Auto "optimized enabled" timings will not even boot...


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> First thing i tried is setting my bclk offsets to disabled so that my board doesn;t Auto it's way to 100.5Mhz which might cause unstability. I used to like the "free" 25Mhz on everything but still..
> 
> I've tried all night to get 4200 17-19-19 in any way stable but every time it gives errors. Can't seem to get it stable. Shame. Higher timings on 4200/4266 like 18-20-20 isn't very useful compared to 4000cl16 so yeah.
> 
> I'm now running HCI on 4000 16-17-17-28-320-2T with tighter subs like 46800 tREFI, 22 tRP, 10 tRTP, 36 tFAW to get it to x4 tRRD_L and 14 tRCW.
> I did try 20 tRP and 12 tRCW but this was super unstable so one of those 2 can't go any lower lol.
> I'm at 200% now so better then 30% with 8 errors haha.
> 
> I do have to say, i tried to tweak RTL / IO as well using this guide: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/773966-comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide/
> Problem is, ANY tweak i do to RTL / IO outside of Auto "optimized enabled" timings will not even boot...


Yeah, it sounds like you might be better staying with the more stable setup.
I actually set bclk to 100.5 on purpose. Anything higher would make my network connection unstable and have drop outs. It seems to make my overclock more stable if anything as well as giving better performance.
For stability I spent a good few hours centralizing the vccio and vccsa and vdimm. I pushed the MHz to the limit to where I was getting errors straight away in memtest86 test 6 and then moved the voltages up and down to find their optimum central position where they error the least. I suppose you already did that though.
I really wanted 4400MHz but it just doesn't seem to like it so I settled on 4220 17-18-18-39 T2
If I run 2 sticks I struggle to get 4200 because of the T-topology and I paid a LOT more for mine. You got a good deal on yours 
That Z390 Ace is a nice looking motherboard too


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Yeah, it sounds like you might be better staying with the more stable setup.
> I actually set bclk to 100.5 on purpose. Anything higher would make my network connection unstable and have drop outs. It seems to make my overclock more stable if anything as well as giving better performance.
> For stability I spent a good few hours centralizing the vccio and vccsa and vdimm. I pushed the MHz to the limit to where I was getting errors straight away in memtest86 test 6 and then moved the voltages up and down to find their optimum central position where they error the least. I suppose you already did that though.
> I really wanted 4400MHz but it just doesn't seem to like it so I settled on 4220 17-18-18-39 T2
> If I run 2 sticks I struggle to get 4200 because of the T-topology and I paid a LOT more for mine. You got a good deal on yours
> That Z390 Ace is a nice looking motherboard too


Tweaked subtimings done 

And yeah the Ace is a incredible board but even with this being the second most expensive board MSI has for Z390 it still has barely enough VRM power to overclock a 9900K. In full AVX loads at 1.315v MOSFET's get to about 78-80c and compared to cheaper Gigabyte Aorus Pro / Elite boards it simply lacks power. Then again, voltage stability is great, it's not peaking or dropping according to VR_VOUT readout and LLC is super easy to set up and stabilize on level 4.

I might continue to tweak and see if i can run 4220/4440 but it wont do 17-19-19-35 but if i read your clocks it might be because my tRAS on 35 is too low. And maybe tRFC as well. What tRFC do you run on 4220? I tried 320 and 340 and 350 but didn't seem to stabilize at all. I'm afraid it's actually my IMC not wanting to do 4220 and i'm not willing to go any higher than 1.30v on SA so.. if that's the thing i won't go for 4220. 

You know what, i'll see if i can run 4400 on ANY timings just to see if frequency is limiting me. I'll just do a short test on 4400 19-22-22 or something.

EDIT: Well, 4400 18-19-19-39-350-2T with Auto subtimings and RTL/Tertiary optimizations Enabled in the BIOS is testing now. It hasn't instacrashed in AIDA cachemem and scores are much higher so.. 
It also hasn't instantly thrown 30 errors in HCI so i'll let it run for at least 400% again. Don't have much faith in in honestly especially with just 39 tRAS and 350 tRFC and 17181 tREFI but yeah. We'll see.
In the rare occasion this does work stable i'll go ahead and raise tREFI again and try to lower at least tWR, tCWL and tRTP. I doubt tRRD will go down at all but we'll see.
EDIT2: Nvm threw an error at 41%. Even tho it's only a single one lol. I'll just try with 50 tRAS and 500 tRFC to eliminate those 2 being a problem.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Got 4133 16-16-16-28 1T stable on my 3200C14 RGB kit. 1.50v IO 1.15v SA 1.20v


----------



## DanLillibridge

Imprezzion said:


> Tweaked subtimings done
> 
> And yeah the Ace is a incredible board but even with this being the second most expensive board MSI has for Z390 it still has barely enough VRM power to overclock a 9900K. In full AVX loads at 1.315v MOSFET's get to about 78-80c and compared to cheaper Gigabyte Aorus Pro / Elite boards it simply lacks power. Then again, voltage stability is great, it's not peaking or dropping according to VR_VOUT readout and LLC is super easy to set up and stabilize on level 4.
> 
> I might continue to tweak and see if i can run 4220/4440 but it wont do 17-19-19-35 but if i read your clocks it might be because my tRAS on 35 is too low. And maybe tRFC as well. What tRFC do you run on 4220? I tried 320 and 340 and 350 but didn't seem to stabilize at all. I'm afraid it's actually my IMC not wanting to do 4220 and i'm not willing to go any higher than 1.30v on SA so.. if that's the thing i won't go for 4220.
> 
> You know what, i'll see if i can run 4400 on ANY timings just to see if frequency is limiting me. I'll just do a short test on 4400 19-22-22 or something.
> 
> EDIT: Well, 4400 18-19-19-39-350-2T with Auto subtimings and RTL/Tertiary optimizations Enabled in the BIOS is testing now. It hasn't instacrashed in AIDA cachemem and scores are much higher so..
> It also hasn't instantly thrown 30 errors in HCI so i'll let it run for at least 400% again. Don't have much faith in in honestly especially with just 39 tRAS and 350 tRFC and 17181 tREFI but yeah. We'll see.
> In the rare occasion this does work stable i'll go ahead and raise tREFI again and try to lower at least tWR, tCWL and tRTP. I doubt tRRD will go down at all but we'll see.
> EDIT2: Nvm threw an error at 41%. Even tho it's only a single one lol. I'll just try with 50 tRAS and 500 tRFC to eliminate those 2 being a problem.


I also have the Meg Ace, Memory overclocking is very finicky. What I had stable back in winter seems no longer to be the case now that temps have gone up. So I had to save a Winter Profile and back to the drawing board for a new Summer Profile. In order to save time I tried something new with this board...I set everything to auto and used the "Memory try it" function to see what the board defaulted the voltages as well as secondary and tertiary timings to. The auto function has a pretty loose CL for what im trying to achieve, but I picked the lowest mhz speed the profile had with the same CL I wanted. In my case, I wanted 4266Mhz CL 17... "Memory try it" has a profile for 3866 CL 17. So I loaded it up, and took pics of all the 2nd and 3rd timings. (NOTE: attempting to copy the RTL settings resulted in no post at the higher frequency, so I left these at auto for now)

Then I manually plugged in all of those for my current 4266 17-18-18-32. Lowered trfc to 400. VCCSA at 1.32 and VCCIO at 1.28 (will try to lower these more). Rock stable up to 500% in memtest. (the secondary and third timings arent the tightest, but at least its a strong starting point for the kind of values this board can manage --Also why I went with the lowest frequency the auto "Mem try it" had with same CL, to give tighter values the board auto configures out the gate.

The only hard rule I've ran into on this board is that tcWL has to be an even number to even post for me. 14, 16, 18 all seem to work, but odd numbers wont boot no matter what. Something I learned the hard way through months of tinkering.

for RTL These are highly dependent on the CL number, The only method ive used with success is to find the "RTL Init Value (CHA) AND (CHB)" Lower both of these by 1 and reboot. If the system posts, lower by one more again. Repeat until the system doesn't post. Once you've reached the lowest value you can on those two, attempt to raise "IO Compensation (CHA) and (CHB)" by one. If you're lucky, you may get it to post, in my case I can only lower the RTL values by 2 without upping the offset.

By using this method you can take note and see all of the RTL numbers tighten up. 

Lastly, for me, my ram seems to heat up more than others I see, perhaps my case isn't suited for good RAM airflow. I notice I start to get more and more errors as I get into the 42C+ range. If I take the side panel off I can pass tests for 8 hours with the modules only getting to 38C max. Surprisingly, I haven't noticed much difference in temps ranging from 1.38V all the way up to 1.48v. Maybe a degree at most, same effect noticed whether SA and IO are as low as 1.15v or high as 1.3v which I thought was strange.


----------



## DanLillibridge

SoldierRBT said:


> Got 4133 16-16-16-28 1T stable on my 3200C14 RGB kit. 1.50v IO 1.15v SA 1.20v


Thats crazy impressive. 1T is out of the question for me at 4000+. Also looks like you've got one hell of a 9900k there, 5Ghz with Vcore that low? Are you using a strong LLC mode? Nicely done!

I made the mistake of splurging on a 4400mhz CL18 rated kit and cant even come close to achieving values like yours with months of trying. Before doing much research, I thought that this kit would leave me a bunch of headroom to lower the frequency and tighten the timings, but im quickly learning thats not how these B-dies work haha. Maybe I just didn't score the best IMC on my 9900k. 

4133 16-16-16-36 appears to be out of reach for me, with errors happening within 5 minutes no matter what I try. Hell, I cant even get a stable CL 16 at 4000Mhz it seems.


----------



## SoldierRBT

DanLillibridge said:


> Thats crazy impressive. 1T is out of the question for me at 4000+. Also looks like you've got one hell of a 9900k there, 5Ghz with Vcore that low? Are you using a strong LLC mode? Nicely done!
> 
> I made the mistake of splurging on a 4400mhz CL18 rated kit and cant even come close to achieving values like yours with months of trying. Before doing much research, I thought that this kit would leave me a bunch of headroom to lower the frequency and tighten the timings, but im quickly learning thats not how these B-dies work haha. Maybe I just didn't score the best IMC on my 9900k.
> 
> 4133 16-16-16-36 appears to be out of reach for me, with errors happening within 5 minutes no matter what I try. Hell, I cant even get a stable CL 16 at 4000Mhz it seems.


Thanks, took me a few hours to get this ram settings. 4133C16 1T and 4600C17 2T is best this kit can do. 4200MHz 1T boots but not stable. You could try your luck with another Samsung Bdie kit (I've read that 3600C15 is the best binning). I had a 3600C16 RGB kit before that couldn't even do 4000 C17 2T stable.


----------



## wonderin17

munternet said:


> wonderin17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running my Kingston Predator 2x16 GB memory at standard 3000 mhz xmp profile. Timings are 15-17-17-36 2T.
> 
> Should I go into overclocking and is it even worth trying? Will I even see the difference in performance?
> 
> Any experienced tips would be much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have some info on the rest of your system?
Click to expand...




The Pook said:


> wonderin17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running my Kingston Predator 2x16 GB memory at standard 3000 mhz xmp profile. Timings are 15-17-17-36 2T.
> 
> Should I go into overclocking and is it even worth trying? Will I even see the difference in performance?
> 
> Any experienced tips would be much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the rest of the system specs and what you do with your rig.
> 
> If it's just a gaming rig and you're not running an APU, probably not. You will get gains and it's free, though.
Click to expand...

i7 [email protected], Strix Gaming x99 motherboard, 1080 ti. Yes it's mostly a gaming rig.


----------



## Imprezzion

DanLillibridge said:


> I also have the Meg Ace, Memory overclocking is very finicky. What I had stable back in winter seems no longer to be the case now that temps have gone up. So I had to save a Winter Profile and back to the drawing board for a new Summer Profile. In order to save time I tried something new with this board...I set everything to auto and used the "Memory try it" function to see what the board defaulted the voltages as well as secondary and tertiary timings to. The auto function has a pretty loose CL for what im trying to achieve, but I picked the lowest mhz speed the profile had with the same CL I wanted. In my case, I wanted 4266Mhz CL 17... "Memory try it" has a profile for 3866 CL 17. So I loaded it up, and took pics of all the 2nd and 3rd timings. (NOTE: attempting to copy the RTL settings resulted in no post at the higher frequency, so I left these at auto for now)
> 
> Then I manually plugged in all of those for my current 4266 17-18-18-32. Lowered trfc to 400. VCCSA at 1.32 and VCCIO at 1.28 (will try to lower these more). Rock stable up to 500% in memtest. (the secondary and third timings arent the tightest, but at least its a strong starting point for the kind of values this board can manage --Also why I went with the lowest frequency the auto "Mem try it" had with same CL, to give tighter values the board auto configures out the gate.
> 
> The only hard rule I've ran into on this board is that tcWL has to be an even number to even post for me. 14, 16, 18 all seem to work, but odd numbers wont boot no matter what. Something I learned the hard way through months of tinkering.
> 
> for RTL These are highly dependent on the CL number, The only method ive used with success is to find the "RTL Init Value (CHA) AND (CHB)" Lower both of these by 1 and reboot. If the system posts, lower by one more again. Repeat until the system doesn't post. Once you've reached the lowest value you can on those two, attempt to raise "IO Compensation (CHA) and (CHB)" by one. If you're lucky, you may get it to post, in my case I can only lower the RTL values by 2 without upping the offset.
> 
> By using this method you can take note and see all of the RTL numbers tighten up.
> 
> Lastly, for me, my ram seems to heat up more than others I see, perhaps my case isn't suited for good RAM airflow. I notice I start to get more and more errors as I get into the 42C+ range. If I take the side panel off I can pass tests for 8 hours with the modules only getting to 38C max. Surprisingly, I haven't noticed much difference in temps ranging from 1.38V all the way up to 1.48v. Maybe a degree at most, same effect noticed whether SA and IO are as low as 1.15v or high as 1.3v which I thought was strange.


This is some useful information! Thanks! I'll work on it for a bit. 

Should i try to push vDIMM and VCCIO/SA a bit higher to try and still get 4400 CL17 stable? I mean, it went for 128% on 4400 17-18-18-39-400-2T with Auto subtimings and RTL. Maybe a tad bit more voltage can make it happen. 

For tCWL i am now running 12. 10 isn't stable for now and same as you, uneven numbers don't boot or rarely do and if they do there's all sorts of random problems.


----------



## munternet

DanLillibridge said:


> Thats crazy impressive. 1T is out of the question for me at 4000+. Also looks like you've got one hell of a 9900k there, 5Ghz with Vcore that low? Are you using a strong LLC mode? Nicely done!
> 
> I made the mistake of splurging on a 4400mhz CL18 rated kit and cant even come close to achieving values like yours with months of trying. Before doing much research, I thought that this kit would leave me a bunch of headroom to lower the frequency and tighten the timings, but im quickly learning thats not how these B-dies work haha. Maybe I just didn't score the best IMC on my 9900k.
> 
> 4133 16-16-16-36 appears to be out of reach for me, with errors happening within 5 minutes no matter what I try. Hell, I cant even get a stable CL 16 at 4000Mhz it seems.


The Apex is a pretty awesome motherboard. What board do you have DanLillibridge?


----------



## DanLillibridge

Imprezzion said:


> This is some useful information! Thanks! I'll work on it for a bit.
> 
> Should i try to push vDIMM and VCCIO/SA a bit higher to try and still get 4400 CL17 stable? I mean, it went for 128% on 4400 17-18-18-39-400-2T with Auto subtimings and RTL. Maybe a tad bit more voltage can make it happen.
> 
> For tCWL i am now running 12. 10 isn't stable for now and same as you, uneven numbers don't boot or rarely do and if they do there's all sorts of random problems.



I may need to play with mine and try to get those lower. I've kind of settled down on pushing the overclocking for now that its summer time. Still getting respectable 60Gb+ on read and write in AIDA64 so I haven't bothered scratching out more for now.

In terms of voltages, its hard to say, I actually reached out to G.Skill a while back about concerns over the auto XMP profile at 4400mhz...setting VCCSA and VCCIO too high. It auto-set to SA to 1.47v and IO to 1.37v. I was told that those voltages were correct and as long as the system was using them they are fine (or something to that extent.) 

I've read that VCCSA helps with frequency and VCCIO may help with timings.

Out of fear of reading what other people said is safe. I lowered them. The general consensus I've read is the safe max for each are:
VCCSA 1.35v 
VCCIO 1.3v 

That expert Asus guy Raja mentions the above values as the safe max. I'm inclined to trust him haha.

I would think as long as you keep them under those you will be okay. I've pushed my DRAM voltage up to 1.5v without issue. Temps don't even change that much, but It didn't seem to provide any extra stability, so I lowered it down. Mine seems to run into issues with temp. stability seems to go down quickly as my modules approach 42C+. I honestly think I just need better airflow over my ram, I've got the Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic case and might need to change my fans around to a different setup. 

The most beneficial info I've got from this thread was from Post#7836
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-784.html#post27784556

That provides a huge amount of info and good starting points, but I think every Mobo/CPU/Ram combo is different, so use it as a rough guideline. 

Out of curiosity what BIOS version are you running? I'm currently running version 1.4

There is also the matter of the max sweet spot, in terms of what you are looking for. I personally mostly just game on my PC, so its almost a moot point. However, Raja also has mentioned that a max frequency of 4133 with tighter timings will yield better results than anything higher. Seems its the right sweet spot for frequency and latency.

This guy did some cool tests and compared a maxed out 4133 and 4400 to see if what Raja said held true, Turns out looks like it does in his case.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?101819-DDR4-4400-vs-4133


----------



## DanLillibridge

munternet said:


> The Apex is a pretty awesome motherboard. What board do you have DanLillibridge?


Yeah I know the Asus board are awesome with RAM overclocking. I'm using the the MSI Meg Ace. I've had good luck with MSI in the past, so I just stuck with them. Can't really complain, its rock stable at 4266 CL 17 which is plenty to ask of any board/IMC. Its just fun chasing those extra few point on the benchmarks! haha.




SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks, took me a few hours to get this ram settings. 4133C16 1T and 4600C17 2T is best this kit can do. 4200MHz 1T boots but not stable. You could try your luck with another Samsung Bdie kit (I've read that 3600C15 is the best binning). I had a 3600C16 RGB kit before that couldn't even do 4000 C17 2T stable.


Part of me wants to, I may have to sneak in a purchase under the wife's nose. She already doesn't understand the need to spend so much on a computer as it is!


----------



## KedarWolf

DanLillibridge said:


> I may need to play with mine and try to get those lower. I've kind of settled down on pushing the overclocking for now that its summer time. Still getting respectable 60Gb+ on read and write in AIDA64 so I haven't bothered scratching out more for now.
> 
> In terms of voltages, its hard to say, I actually reached out to G.Skill a while back about concerns over the auto XMP profile at 4400mhz...setting VCCSA and VCCIO too high. It auto-set to SA to 1.47v and IO to 1.37v. I was told that those voltages were correct and as long as the system was using them they are fine (or something to that extent.)
> 
> I've read that VCCSA helps with frequency and VCCIO may help with timings.
> 
> Out of fear of reading what other people said is safe. I lowered them. The general consensus I've read is the safe max for each are:
> VCCSA 1.35v
> VCCIO 1.3v
> 
> That expert Asus guy Raja mentions the above values as the safe max. I'm inclined to trust him haha.
> 
> I would think as long as you keep them under those you will be okay. I've pushed my DRAM voltage up to 1.5v without issue. Temps don't even change that much, but It didn't seem to provide any extra stability, so I lowered it down. Mine seems to run into issues with temp. stability seems to go down quickly as my modules approach 42C+. I honestly think I just need better airflow over my ram, I've got the Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic case and might need to change my fans around to a different setup.
> 
> The most beneficial info I've got from this thread was from Post#7836
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-784.html#post27784556
> 
> That provides a huge amount of info and good starting points, but I think every Mobo/CPU/Ram combo is different, so use it as a rough guideline.
> 
> Out of curiosity what BIOS version are you running? I'm currently running version 1.4


https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-Turbulence-Memory-Cooling-3500rpm/dp/B0041G211U?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_9


----------



## DanLillibridge

KedarWolf said:


> https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-Turbulence-Memory-Cooling-3500rpm/dp/B0041G211U?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_9


I actually do have a Corsair Vengeance ram cooler fan installed right now. It lowered my temps from 48C or so down to where I'm at the 42C range. If I'm not mistaken, I think it may have been one of your previous posts that gave me the idea to use one. Helped quite a bit, in my case, I was able to tighten all timings, and lower CL just from installing the cooler. However, I still cant achieve the sub 40C temps that I see people having. I don't know if my case is just that bad with the ram airflow or what. Might try to give this one a shot since it has 2 fans instead of the one that my current one has.


----------



## KedarWolf

Been testing my memory overclock in benchmarks.

4133MHz with the below timings score better in Cinebench R20, CPU-Z multi-core benchmark and even 3DMark Time Spy.

Then do 4200MHz with the second picture timings. Only way 4200Mhz scores more is in AIDA64 cache and memory test.


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> Been testing my memory overclock in benchmarks.
> 
> 4133MHz with the below timings score better in Cinebench R20, CPU-Z multi-core benchmark and even 3DMark Time Spy.
> 
> Then do 4200MHz with the second picture timings. Only way 4200Mhz scores more is in AIDA64 cache and memory test.


What's up with the weird tREFI numbers?
and The Pook runs something like 60420.
Are they based on your lotto numbers or is there a science behind it?


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> What's up with the weird tREFI numbers?
> and The Pook runs something like 60420.
> Are they based on your lotto numbers or is there a science behind it?


That's the highest they'll go. :h34r-smi


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> What's up with the weird tREFI numbers?
> and The Pook runs something like 60420.
> Are they based on your lotto numbers or is there a science behind it?


The value he's using is the maximum number tREFI can be so there's logic behind that.

What I personally do for tREFI is use the "Auto" setting for the frequency I run at that moment and double, triple, quadruple that. So for example I'm running 4020 CL16 now which gives "Auto" tREFI on 15600. I tested with x2 @ 32200, stable. Then I tested with x3 46800 which is stable as well but x4 62400 isn't stable so I just stayed at x3 46800. 

I will use raja's guide to tighten my secondary and tertiary timings but that will take quite a lot of work lol.

I will also YOLO the SA and IO voltage to 1.35 and 1.30 respectively and 1.50v vDIMM to see if I can somehow make 4400 17-18-18 or 17-19-19 work stable. I have my doubts but still.. I'm not really scared of high voltages damaging stuff. I ran a lot higher stuff on 3770/4770/7700k's so..


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> That's the highest they'll go. :h34r-smi


65535 is the highest isn't it?


----------



## Kimir

munternet said:


> 65535 is the highest isn't it?


Yeah, it should be that value.
One should only be using that for bench purpose imo.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> The value he's using is the maximum number tREFI can be so there's logic behind that.
> 
> What I personally do for tREFI is use the "Auto" setting for the frequency I run at that moment and double, triple, quadruple that. So for example I'm running 4020 CL16 now which gives "Auto" tREFI on 15600. I tested with x2 @ 32200, stable. Then I tested with x3 46800 which is stable as well but x4 62400 isn't stable so I just stayed at x3 46800.
> 
> I will use raja's guide to tighten my secondary and tertiary timings but that will take quite a lot of work lol.
> 
> I will also YOLO the SA and IO voltage to 1.35 and 1.30 respectively and 1.50v vDIMM to see if I can somehow make 4400 17-18-18 or 17-19-19 work stable. I have my doubts but still.. I'm not really scared of high voltages damaging stuff. I ran a lot higher stuff on 3770/4770/7700k's so..


Where is this raja's guide you speak of? I would like to have a look.
Cheers


----------



## spyshagg

SoldierRBT said:


> Got 4133 16-16-16-28 1T stable on my 3200C14 RGB kit. 1.50v IO 1.15v SA 1.20v


Which kit is it? F4-3200C14-8GTZSK ?


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> 65535 is the highest isn't it?


On my Z390 Aorus Master it's the highest, next notch up is Auto.


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Where is this raja's guide you speak of? I would like to have a look.
> Cheers


https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...lity-thread-784.html#/topics/1569364?page=784

About halfway down this page. Link was on the previous page 
It goes very deep so I got some work to do lol


----------



## zGunBLADEz

man evga bios and software sucks :/
good thing i can do 4000 on this micro2
bad thing everything else sucks software side
hwinfo is a freaking mess 

i cant use asrock timing app it shows all 0s


----------



## ThrashZone

zGunBLADEz said:


> man evga bios and software sucks :/
> good thing i can do 4000 on this micro2
> bad thing everything else sucks software side
> hwinfo is a freaking mess
> 
> i cant use asrock timing app it shows all 0s


Hi,
I can confirm evga software is garbage 
Not sure what to say about asrock timing config... not sure what platform you're on now since you haven't used rig builder and added your system or systems to your signature :doh:

I know I have a x99 and a x299 asrock .... file 

hwinfo 608 is hit and miss not sure if the newest beta is any better :/


----------



## spyshagg

Any of you guys rocking the Team Group Dark Pro 3200CL14 kit?

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08l-tg.html


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I can confirm evga software is garbage
> Not sure what to say about asrock timing config... not sure what platform you're on now since you haven't used rig builder and added your system or systems to your signature :doh:
> 
> I know I have a x99 and a x299 asrock .... file
> 
> hwinfo 608 is hit and miss not sure if the newest beta is any better :/



im using EVGA x299 MICRO2 but my oh my compared to my asrock x299M bios/software wise it just sucks.
it dont even let me overclock per core dont tell me favorite cores none of that crap. the vrms are better and cooler but other than that im not impressed by it.

the universal vrm block i ordered do not fit my asrock so i decided to buy the MICRO2 i grab it for $170 brand new on ebay..


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> What's up with the weird tREFI numbers?
> and The Pook runs something like 60420.
> Are they based on your lotto numbers or is there a science behind it?





KedarWolf said:


> That's the highest they'll go.





Imprezzion said:


> The value he's using is the maximum number tREFI can be so there's logic behind that.



65535 is the highest but it doesn't have 420 in it :h34r-smi


----------



## Needhelp666

How can I get 1t stable? Everytime I set my ram to 1t, it won't boot. I already tried bumping the voltage to 1.5v and vccsa and vccio to 1.3

7700k 5.1ghz
z270 gaming titanium mpower
3333mhz c14 1.42v


----------



## truehighroller1

Needhelp666 said:


> How can I get 1t stable? Everytime I set my ram to 1t, it won't boot. I already tried bumping the voltage to 1.5v and vccsa and vccio to 1.3
> 
> 7700k 5.1ghz
> z270 gaming titanium mpower
> 3333mhz c14 1.42v


Back your cpu down some then try again? What memory do you have b die?


----------



## Needhelp666

truehighroller1 said:


> Back your cpu down some then try again? What memory do you have b die?


Yes Bdie. I tried 1t with 4.8ghz and still have the same issue.


----------



## truehighroller1

Needhelp666 said:


> Yes Bdie. I tried 1t with 4.8ghz and still have the same issue.


Temperatures matter first of all. What you're pushing the settings to memory timing wise matters perhaps second? You also need to have a little higher voltage setting wise on cache and perhaps cpu, a little perhaps extra on vccio and vccsa, perhaps a little extra on memory. If that's not doing it you have a not so great performing, IMC and or mother board and or memory sticks, and or the motherboard needs a good bios update to improve stability.


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> I can max it out without any issue, I just like the sneaky 420 in tREFI. it pleases the RAM OCing gods. :h34r-smi
> 
> that passed, trying a bit tighter at 3636 now. Tried going for 3680 and failed ~5 seconds in


I was just remembering this post and wondering if it was a science or more black magic


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> I was just remembering this post and wondering if it was a science or more black magic



nope, just green magic :laughings


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> nope, just green magic :laughings


If you are stress tested stable then there is no reason not to max out tREFI. 

If you're not, then yes, you can try a lower tREFI. 

And I really don't think you can call me 'green' at overclocking. 

Wait, you might be right, I'm under 4000 posts on overclock.net. :h34r-smi


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> If you are stress tested stable then there is no reason not to max out tREFI.
> 
> If you're not, then yes, you can try a lower tREFI.
> 
> And I really don't think you can call me 'green' at overclocking.
> 
> Wait, you might be right, I'm under 4000 posts on overclock.net. :h34r-smi



whoosh?


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I tried about everything to make 4400 19-19-19 or 4266 17-18-18 a thing but it just won't do it. Not even on 1.50v vDIMM, 1.35v SA 1.30v IO.. it can probably do it on higher timings but that has zero benefit over 4000 16-17-17.

So, yeah I left vDIMM, SA and IO on 1.50v, 1.35v and 1.30v and went to work on that secondary and tertiary guide. 

It's a lot of work especially since some settings are named slightly different in the MSI UEFI or the guide says "15" but the UEFI only accepts a even number or it won't boot or default to "14" even tho I set "15".

And for tWTR_L/tWTR_S they should be 8 and 6 on Auto using 

tWRRD_sg: 35 (<35) (drives tWTR_L)
tWRRD_dg: 29-35 (<35) (drives tWTR_S)

The problem is, 35 sg and 29 dg is setting the tWTR_L/tWTR_S to like, 17 and 12. To get 8 and 6 I needed to use

tWRRD_sg: 23 (<35) (drives tWTR_L)
tWRRD_dg: 25 (<35) (drives tWTR_S)

I ended up setting 23 23 and using tWTR_L/tWTR_S 6/6 as it doesn't seem to make any difference to stability.

All the tweaks did make a massive difference to AIDA memory benches. Bandwidth and latency went from 57500 read 58000 write 54000 copy and 42.0ns latency to 59600 read 60400 write 56300 copy 40.6ns latency.

Running HCI now with memtesthelper (godlike program) on 13000MB and so far so good.. when I reach 400-500% I'll upload a screenshot of all the settings and results.


----------



## SoldierRBT

spyshagg said:


> Which kit is it? F4-3200C14-8GTZSK ?


F4-3200C14D-16GTZR


----------



## Imprezzion

Done. 400% stable with super super tight secondaries and tertiaries. Some of them are even as low as the BIOS allows me to set lol.
Only thing left now is to see if it'll be stable with less "insane" voltages and if maybe tRFC can go down a bit further to like 280-300. There's nothing else i can really try to push except for maaaaybe even lower tWR and tCWL? 

This is tested with slighty reduced CPU clocks to just make 100% sure any error isn't CPU or cache related as i've never really tested my 5.025Ghz clocks.. 

Only thing worrying me is 1.488v vDIMM and 1.301v VCCIO and 1.351v VCCSA. I'm going to tone it down a bit and see if it's still stable then.


----------



## KedarWolf

Imprezzion said:


> Well, I tried about everything to make 4400 19-19-19 or 4266 17-18-18 a thing but it just won't do it. Not even on 1.50v vDIMM, 1.35v SA 1.30v IO.. it can probably do it on higher timings but that has zero benefit over 4000 16-17-17.
> 
> So, yeah I left vDIMM, SA and IO on 1.50v, 1.35v and 1.30v and went to work on that secondary and tertiary guide.
> 
> It's a lot of work especially since some settings are named slightly different in the MSI UEFI or the guide says "15" but the UEFI only accepts a even number or it won't boot or default to "14" even tho I set "15".
> 
> And for tWTR_L/tWTR_S they should be 8 and 6 on Auto using
> 
> tWRRD_sg: 35 (<35) (drives tWTR_L)
> tWRRD_dg: 29-35 (<35) (drives tWTR_S)
> 
> The problem is, 35 sg and 29 dg is setting the tWTR_L/tWTR_S to like, 17 and 12. To get 8 and 6 I needed to use
> 
> tWRRD_sg: 23 (<35) (drives tWTR_L)
> tWRRD_dg: 25 (<35) (drives tWTR_S)
> 
> I ended up setting 23 23 and using tWTR_L/tWTR_S 6/6 as it doesn't seem to make any difference to stability.
> 
> All the tweaks did make a massive difference to AIDA memory benches. Bandwidth and latency went from 57500 read 58000 write 54000 copy and 42.0ns latency to 59600 read 60400 write 56300 copy 40.6ns latency.
> 
> Running HCI now with memtesthelper (godlike program) on 13000MB and so far so good.. when I reach 400-500% I'll upload a screenshot of all the settings and results.


https://github.com/KedarWolf/HCI-MemTest-Pro-Helper-For-9900K-7820X-5960X

An AutoHotKey script. read the ReadMe on how to use it. It different because it allocates each of the HCI MemTest instances to a logical separate core, so each thread of your CPU is running one instance each, the absolute best way to run HCI.

Compiled .exe's are found here for 8 thread, 12 thread and 16 thread CPUs,16GB and 32GB versions.

If you need it for a different thread count CPU, let me know, I'll compile it for you.


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> https://github.com/KedarWolf/HCI-MemTest-Pro-Helper-For-9900K-7820X-5960X
> 
> An AutoHotKey script. read the ReadMe on how to use it. It different because it allocates each of the HCI MemTest instances to a logical separate core, so each thread of your CPU is running one instance each, the absolute best way to run HCI.
> 
> Compiled .exe's are found here for 8 thread, 12 thread and 16 thread CPUs,16GB and 32GB versions.
> 
> If you need it for a different thread count CPU, let me know, I'll compile it for you.


Cheers mate, good to know. I didn't know you did that. I will grab it and have a play


----------



## Imprezzion

KedarWolf said:


> https://github.com/KedarWolf/HCI-MemTest-Pro-Helper-For-9900K-7820X-5960X
> 
> An AutoHotKey script. read the ReadMe on how to use it. It different because it allocates each of the HCI MemTest instances to a logical separate core, so each thread of your CPU is running one instance each, the absolute best way to run HCI.
> 
> Compiled .exe's are found here for 8 thread, 12 thread and 16 thread CPUs,16GB and 32GB versions.
> 
> If you need it for a different thread count CPU, let me know, I'll compile it for you.


Does this only work with Pro HCI or also with the free version? 

I cannot lower my voltages btw. With vDIMM 1.45v, SA 1.30v and IO 1.20v which is only slightly lower on all 3 it errored on 132% straight away. 
I put the voltages back to 1.50v vDIMM, SA 1.35v IO 1.25v and managed to get 500%+ with tRFC dropped to 280 and tWR 14, tCWL 11 (will not do 10, won't even POST) and tWRPRE 29.
There's not much left to adjust now lol. Almost every single timing is either maxed to the point of errors if i go 1 lower or is maxed to the lowest possible setting in the UEFI. 

I can only try to get stuff like tRFC even lower to 270, 260, maybe even 250 but.. And further only tWR / tWRPRE has maybe some room left and the only other timing that i could possibly adjust any further would be tRTP.

EDIT: 270 tRFC works so far, 260 is unstable and 250 won't even POST. Also put tWR to 10 and tWRPRE to 25, tested 200% and letting it run while I'm off to work. We'll see if after 9 hours if it's still running haha. If it survives this run I'll drop tRTP to 7 or 6 and test again and then a 500% run with my full CPU and Cache clocks and maybe a slightly higher baseclock like, 101.0Mhz for 4050 memory and 5.05Ghz CPU 4.55Ghz cache?


----------



## Needhelp666

truehighroller1 said:


> Temperatures matter first of all. What you're pushing the settings to memory timing wise matters perhaps second? You also need to have a little higher voltage setting wise on cache and perhaps cpu, a little perhaps extra on vccio and vccsa, perhaps a little extra on memory. If that's not doing it you have a not so great performing, IMC and or mother board and or memory sticks, and or the motherboard needs a good bios update to improve stability.


I tried everything and it just won't boot with 1t. But I do remember that I managed to boot with this cpu on a different motherboard with 1t.


----------



## Imprezzion

Euh.

Exactly how did this pass a full working day 2000% run?

Look at those secondaries and tertiaries how tight :O 

There isn't a single timing except for even *lower* tWR / tWRPRE and tRTP that can go ANY lower lol. Most of them are as low as the UEFI will allow me to go and some are so low that this is stable but setting it literally 1 lower will just not POST at all lol. 

Well, time to cook my CPU and go for more bclk lol. The RAM will not do the next divider at 4100 unfortunately so.. time to play with bclk lol. Let's see if it likes 4000 @ 102.5 bclk making for 4100 that way lol.

EDIT: AIDA bench on full CPU and cache clocks. Under 40ns latency at 60gb bandwidth :O


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...lity-thread-784.html#/topics/1569364?page=784
> 
> About halfway down this page. Link was on the previous page
> It goes very deep so I got some work to do lol


I'm not sure Raja would appreciate being associated with the link on that page you refer to. Best way to guide a fellow member to a specific post is to quote the post number (as you did later), or go to the post and on the right side "Copy Link Location" will point directly to the post.


----------



## Jpmboy

Kimir said:


> Yeah, it should be that value.
> One should only be using that for bench purpose imo.


 ^^ This.
A very long tREFI can lead to decay of the signal (or cell bit) before a refresh occurs... leading to errors. You cannot assess this with a full-on stress test like HCi or Ramtest, or GSAT. Things like suspend to ram, or a ram disk (corruption) may reveal the signal loss... and an error/loss of fidelity.
Simply doubling the value set by Auto will usually be error free over time.


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ This.
> A very long tREFI can lead to decay of the signal (or cell bit) before a refresh occurs... leading to errors. You cannot assess this with a full-on stress test like HCi or Ramtest, or GSAT. Things like suspend to ram, or a ram disk (corruption) may reveal the signal loss... and an error/loss of fidelity.
> Simply doubling the value set by Auto will usually be error free over time.


Interesting to know.
I had had a few weird things happen lately (the odd freeze, not during in game stress but exiting BFV, and parts of other software doing something out of character) and I have been trying to figure out the cause considering ram and CPU passed all the tests I have used and I haven't maxed all the timings.
I will drop tREFI down and see how it goes.
Cheers 

Edit:
Set tREFI to auto and rebooted then doubled the auto value.
Ran Aida64 and the new results are not far off the old ones.
So I'm pretty happy with that


----------



## Imprezzion

I found out that 4040Mhz will not work on C16 unfortunately.

Seeing your AIDA benches, your results are great lol. I really wanna try to get 4200 17-18-18 now but even with my 2000% run on the previous post I cannot seem to get 4200 on 17-18-18 stable even the slightest bit lol. Must be the CPU I guess as even on all Auto subtimings and 4200 18-19-19 it still errors pretty quickly in HCI. I need 1.35v SA and 1.30v IO already for 4020 so I'm thinking my IMC just can't handle 4200 without going to really unsafe voltages. 

Oh well, I'm happy with my 4020 CL16 2000% stable.

And @ Above-mentioned posts about tREFI, I run x3 Auto on my RAM. Maxing it to 65xxx will indeed cause some wierd errors and games not shutting down properly is one of them yeah. Haven't noticed anything wierd on 46800 tho and no errors in the event viewer either so, must be fine haha.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I found out that 4040Mhz will not work on C16 unfortunately.
> 
> Seeing your AIDA benches, your results are great lol. I really wanna try to get 4200 17-18-18 now but even with my 2000% run on the previous post I cannot seem to get 4200 on 17-18-18 stable even the slightest bit lol. Must be the CPU I guess as even on all Auto subtimings and 4200 18-19-19 it still errors pretty quickly in HCI. I need 1.35v SA and 1.30v IO already for 4020 so I'm thinking my IMC just can't handle 4200 without going to really unsafe voltages.
> 
> Oh well, I'm happy with my 4020 CL16 2000% stable.
> 
> And @ Above-mentioned posts about tREFI, I run x3 Auto on my RAM. Maxing it to 65xxx will indeed cause some wierd errors and games not shutting down properly is one of them yeah. Haven't noticed anything wierd on 46800 tho and no errors in the event viewer either so, must be fine haha.


The top Aida is my old test and the lower the new one. Some things actually improved with lower tREFI 

I have 4 sticks of G.Skill 4400CL19 non-RGB that cost me an arm and a leg running in T-topology to get that. Probably should have done more research before parting with the cash. I can't run 2 sticks at more than 4020 16-17-17-36 from memory and my best pair were some cheap Kingston HyperX Preditor 4000CL19 which ran 4000CL15-16-16-35. 2 pairs of those will probably perform better with the T-topology, who knows?

I find if I increase my sa and io and vdimm past a certain point I can't get a stable overclock. It's around 1.23v max for sa and io (1.272v max in HWiNFO) and vdimm likes exactly 1.44v on the button for the gskill.

Have you tried turning the lights off or is that not an option


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> The top Aida is my old test and the lower the new one. Some things actually improved with lower tREFI
> 
> I have 4 sticks of G.Skill 4400CL19 non-RGB that cost me an arm and a leg running in T-topology to get that. Probably should have done more research before parting with the cash. I can't run 2 sticks at more than 4020 16-17-17-36 from memory and my best pair were some cheap Kingston HyperX Preditor 4000CL19 which ran 4000CL15-16-16-35. 2 pairs of those will probably perform better with the T-topology, who knows?
> 
> I find if I increase my sa and io and vdimm past a certain point I can't get a stable overclock. It's around 1.23v max for sa and io and vdimm likes exactly 1.44v on the button for the gskill.
> 
> Have you tried turning the lights off or is that not an option


No no no no one touches ma RGB haha. I specifically build my PC with all MSI components and a AIO cooler and Phanteks case with MSI Mystic support so I can sync everything. It's basically a show / LAN build so..

I had a lot of luck with this kit. Only spend like €99 on it. Messaged the seller to ask which Corsair version number it had (4.31 is B-Die) and he didn't know B-Die was worth more lol.

I do have a second set of 3200CL16 with Hynix BFR but that stuff does pretty low timings but can't run any meaningful frequency. It tops out at 3400. It does do 3000 on 12-15-15 tho.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Interesting to know.
> I had had a few weird things happen lately (the odd freeze, not during in game stress but exiting BFV, and parts of other software doing something out of character) and I have been trying to figure out the cause considering ram and CPU passed all the tests I have used and I haven't maxed all the timings.
> I will drop tREFI down and see how it goes.
> Cheers
> 
> Edit:
> Set tREFI to auto and rebooted then doubled the auto value.
> Ran Aida64 and the new results are not far off the old ones.
> So I'm pretty happy with that


 yeah, AID membench is pretty sensitive to tREFI, but not representative of every thing ram does during normal use. The BFV exiting thing is more likely the video driver (especially if windows 1903 update reinstalled it). 

Post back with how she behaves with the change...


----------



## robertr1

Anyone with a Auros Z390 manually tune their RTL and IO timings? Trying to see what people are using.


----------



## KedarWolf

robertr1 said:


> Anyone with a Auros Z390 manually tune their RTL and IO timings? Trying to see what people are using.


Only issue with Gigabyte boards, can't manually tune the IOLs and RTLs, You can change them in the BIOS but they don't stick. brb, let me check with the new F9 BIOS, see if they fixed that.

Nope, they don't stick, and not even an IOL Offset in BIOS like Asus which would change them.


----------



## robertr1

KedarWolf said:


> Only issue with Gigabyte boards, can't manually tune the IOLs and RTLs, You can change them in the BIOS but they don't stick. brb, let me check with the new F9 BIOS, see if they fixed that.
> 
> Nope, they don't stick, and not even an IOL Offset in BIOS like Asus which would change them.


Thanks 

I can't get TWTR_S/L to stick either. Same for you?


----------



## KedarWolf

robertr1 said:


> Thanks
> 
> I can't get TWTR_S/L to stick either. Same for you?


They stick for me but I have every timing manually set you can in the BIOS. I have it at 7-5 and shows 7-5 in Asrock Timing Configurator.

The .zip is the version I use.


----------



## robertr1

KedarWolf said:


> They stick for me but I have every timing manually set you can in the BIOS. I have it at 7-5 and shows 7-5 in Asrock Timing Configurator.
> 
> The .zip is the version I use.


Yeah is use the Asrock util also but on my Z390 Pro, the twtr_s/l never stick and have a mind of their own. Appreciate the help but I think unless GB does something new with the mem turning on these, we're limited to what we go.


----------



## ViTosS

Switching from 8700k to 9900kf my RAM OC potential probably will stay the same if I don't change my mobo?


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> Switching from 8700k to 9900kf my RAM OC potential probably will stay the same if I don't change my mobo?


not necessary. The 9900K has a higher ceiling IMC, so it may be able to push the ram further...


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, AID membench is pretty sensitive to tREFI, but not representative of every thing ram does during normal use. The BFV exiting thing is more likely the video driver (especially if windows 1903 update reinstalled it).
> 
> Post back with how she behaves with the change...


Since the tREFI has been lowered the PC has been running great.
I mine with the GPU when I'm not gaming so it never gets rebooted more than about once a week unless there is a problem.
One of the programs that played up was the mining software and I recently updated to W10 v1903 (I don't do updates), so it's funny you should mention the video driver but it seems ok now.
I will give it a few more days and if I don't report back it's because it's fixed 

On another subject, would I likely see much memory overclocking gain from updating to a 9900k from my 8700k if I stayed with my Maximus X Hero?
I've heard the CPU itself will overclock reasonably well with this board and my cooling is pretty good.

Update:
"Origin ran into a serious problem and has to close"
Not sure if that's related to corruption because there's been a few issues on their end lately.....


----------



## Zemach

Gskill 4800 18 22 22 42 1.5v Full Sub Memtest 200%


----------



## Imprezzion

Zemach said:


> Gskill 4800 18 22 22 42 1.5v Full Sub Memtest 200%


Well, you're not scared to run SA and IO that high lol. I wouldn't dare to go over 1.35v myself.

tFAW isn't on the right amount yet, should ideally be 4x TRRD_S and tCWL could maybe go lower as that has a pretty big impact as well. 18 is pretty high but you are running 4800Mhz so maybe it just has no more room. tWR and tWRPRE could be adjusted accordingly as well if any room exists there.


----------



## swddeluxx

Zemach said:


> Gskill 4800 18 22 22 42 1.5v Full Sub Memtest 200%
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Amazing result :thumb:


----------



## DanLillibridge

Zemach said:


> Gskill 4800 18 22 22 42 1.5v Full Sub Memtest 200%


Those Aida numbers sure look pretty. I still haven't seen any real confirmation on whether or not running the VCCSA and VCCIO that high is safe. 

My 4400mhz CL18 kit XMP profile sets SA to 1.47v and IO to 1.37v. I emailed G.skill asking if those were safe, and they said those values "are correct". They are very careful to avoid words like "safe" I've noticed. Again, I don't think I've ever seen definitive proof that numbers that high are sure to kill an IMC or not. There are some reports I've found on reddit and other sites where people claimed their 9900k was dead in 3 months time from auto XMP voltages roasting the IMC by sending 1.4v+, but who knows if that's the reason or not.


----------



## DanLillibridge

munternet said:


> Since the tREFI has been lowered the PC has been running great.
> I mine with the GPU when I'm not gaming so it never gets rebooted more than about once a week unless there is a problem.
> One of the programs that played up was the mining software and I recently updated to W10 v1903 (I don't do updates), so it's funny you should mention the video driver but it seems ok now.
> I will give it a few more days and if I don't report back it's because it's fixed
> 
> On another subject, would I likely see much memory overclocking gain from updating to a 9900k from my 8700k if I stayed with my Maximus X Hero?
> I've heard the CPU itself will overclock reasonably well with this board and my cooling is pretty good.
> 
> Update:
> "Origin ran into a serious problem and has to close"
> Not sure if that's related to corruption because there's been a few issues on their end lately.....



Video games these days are becoming more and more sensitive to overclocks. I've had my system pass 8 hours Aida64 Stress, 8 hours Prime 1344, 2 hours of OCCT, and 1000% coverage on memtest only to randomly crash playing Apex Legends...Rarely a full system crash, but more often than not, just a crash that sends me back to the desktop. It's amazing that I can throw days worth of stress test programs at it without issue, and games like Apex, or PubG will drop it to its knees in less than an hour. At first I thought it was my video card OC, but crashes would still happen even at stock GPU speeds.

I just had to back off 100mhz each on CPU, Ring Cache, and RAM. Seems to play games without issue when I do this, but it sure is frustrating spending weeks fine tuning everything only to realize it isn't stable in games. Perhaps I just need to add a little voltage everywhere and try again, but in all honesty the frame rates dont change at all so I just keep it where its at.


----------



## Jpmboy

DanLillibridge said:


> Video games these days are becoming more and more sensitive to overclocks. I've had my system pass 8 hours Aida64 Stress, 8 hours Prime 1344, 2 hours of OCCT, and 1000% coverage on memtest only to randomly crash playing Apex Legends...Rarely a full system crash, but more often than not, just a crash that sends me back to the desktop. It's amazing that I can throw days worth of stress test programs at it without issue, and games like Apex, or PubG will drop it to its knees in less than an hour. At first I thought it was my video card OC, but crashes would still happen even at stock GPU speeds.
> 
> I just had to back off 100mhz each on CPU, Ring Cache, and RAM. Seems to play games without issue when I do this, but it sure is frustrating spending weeks fine tuning everything only to realize it isn't stable in games. Perhaps I just need to add a little voltage everywhere and try again, but in all honesty the frame rates dont change at all so I just keep it where its at.


The "CTD" (crash to desktop) thing with games _is _frustrating. It can be the OC (many times it's simply the driver interface) and the battery of stress tests we all use suffer the same problem - they all share the same mode of repetitive procedure calls, different ones at that, but repetitive within the stressor stack. This is why Realbench was launched as an attempt to reflect gaming usage... a few hours of Realbench may be more relevant to add to a test suite, than any number of additional hours of any one stress test. What trips up modern platforms is not hammering the floating-point, or cache or ram with the same test procedure, but rapidly changing procedure calls to very different "routines" and substructures. my :2cents:


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> The "CTD" (crash to desktop) thing with games _is _frustrating. It can be the OC (many times it's simply the driver interface) and the battery of stress tests we all use suffer the same problem - they all share the same mode of repetitive procedure calls, different ones at that, but repetitive within the stressor stack. This is why Realbench was launched as an attempt to reflect gaming usage... a few hours of Realbench may be more relevant to add to a test suite, than any number of additional hours of any one stress test. What trips up modern platforms is not hammering the floating-point, or cache or ram with the same test procedure, but rapidly changing procedure calls to very different "routines" and substructures. my :2cents:


Yes, sounds good to me. I think I will just use BFV for testing for the last bit of stability from now on it's much more fun than the other tests anyway  and I'll try some Realbench too.

Back to my other question..... will it increase my memory overclock if I just upgrade my CPU from an 8700k to a 9900k on a MaximusX Hero or will the board have some bearing on it?
And are the VRM's are adequate for the 9900k?


----------



## japau

Don't know if anyone of you guys wrote this guide, but i find it pretty spot on. Would have saved tons of headache couple years ago when i jumped into memory overclocking/tightening.

Just wanted to post this here since it has pretty good coverage of the culprits that i banged my head against. Got lots of helps from reading this thread so wanted to give a bit back.

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

2 years no hiccups,


----------



## munternet

japau said:


> Don't know if anyone of you guys wrote this guide, but i find it pretty spot on. Would have saved tons of headache couple years ago when i jumped into memory overclocking/tightening.
> 
> Just wanted to post this here since it has pretty good coverage of the culprits that i banged my head against. Got lots of helps from reading this thread so wanted to give a bit back.
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md
> 
> 2 years no hiccups,


I wish they sold Apex boards in New Zealand


----------



## Imprezzion

japau said:


> Don't know if anyone of you guys wrote this guide, but i find it pretty spot on. Would have saved tons of headache couple years ago when i jumped into memory overclocking/tightening.
> 
> Just wanted to post this here since it has pretty good coverage of the culprits that i banged my head against. Got lots of helps from reading this thread so wanted to give a bit back.
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md
> 
> 2 years no hiccups,


Bruh. CR1 on those clocks! Nice. Once I'm done installing my H150i Pro later today I'll do another attempt on my 9900K and B-Die to do 4200 17 or higher.


----------



## robertr1

japau said:


> Don't know if anyone of you guys wrote this guide, but i find it pretty spot on. Would have saved tons of headache couple years ago when i jumped into memory overclocking/tightening.
> 
> Just wanted to post this here since it has pretty good coverage of the culprits that i banged my head against. Got lots of helps from reading this thread so wanted to give a bit back.
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md
> 
> 2 years no hiccups,


This is the single best post in this thread by a long shot. That link is awesome.


----------



## YouKnowSedri

Hey
im using g.skill trident z 3200 cl 2x8gb
at stock settings they git 50* in games ;o its kinda high if im not wrong
Fractal Defince C with 8700k+Noctua 15
2080ti gigabyte 
4x 140 and 120 fans


----------



## munternet

YouKnowSedri said:


> Hey
> im using g.skill trident z 3200 cl 2x8gb
> at stock settings they git 50* in games ;o its kinda high if im not wrong
> Fractal Defince C with 8700k+Noctua 15
> 2080ti gigabyte
> 4x 140 and 120 fans


Maybe you could do a rigbuilder and do a HWiNFO screenshot?
It does sound a bit warm for ram depending on the type.


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> The "CTD" (crash to desktop) thing with games _is _frustrating. It can be the OC (many times it's simply the driver interface) and the battery of stress tests we all use suffer the same problem - they all share the same mode of repetitive procedure calls, different ones at that, but repetitive within the stressor stack. This is why Realbench was launched as an attempt to reflect gaming usage... a few hours of Realbench may be more relevant to add to a test suite, than any number of additional hours of any one stress test. What trips up modern platforms is not hammering the floating-point, or cache or ram with the same test procedure, but rapidly changing procedure calls to very different "routines" and substructures. my :2cents:


I ran the Realbench test for a 1/2 hour and it really does work the PC.
It runs about 5c hotter than many hours of BFV or P95 or HCI on the CPU and about 5c cooler on the ram.
The VRM temp also gets a good workout at nearly 10c hotter than anything else gets it.

Edit:
Had another CTD tonight after 3 or 4 games of conquest BFV. First in about a week. 
It was at the end of the game during the transition which is when the AVX ramps up.
I had a couple of clan members CTD mid game though.


----------



## pegadroid

my cmr32gx4m4c3466c16 cannot run more than 3200Mhz. 
3200Mhz 14-15-15-36 2T, booting but not stable and get error on hci, I can only run xmp with 2 pieces (i7 6700k + asus z170 deluxe)
I am very confused, is it stable at 3200Mhz, should I set secondary timing?
now i only run at speed 3000 14-14-14-34 2T


----------



## munternet

pegadroid said:


> my cmr32gx4m4c3466c16 cannot run more than 3200Mhz.
> 3200Mhz 14-15-15-36 2T, booting but not stable and get error on hci, I can only run xmp with 2 pieces (i7 6700k + asus z170 deluxe)
> I am very confused, is it stable at 3200Mhz, should I set secondary timing?
> now i only run at speed 3000 14-14-14-34 2T


There is nothing on the motherboard QVL over 3000MHz even though the advertising states UP TO 3733MHz. https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/MAXIMUS_VIII_EXTREME_ASSEMBLY/6L_Memory_QVL.pdf
At least it is T-topology so that suits your 4 sticks 
Have you found the optimum voltages for vdimm, vccio and vccsa yet? That would be the first thing I would do after loading XMP then lowering the frequency 'till it boots if that's the way you want to go.
Have you tried running them with the LEDs off?
Not sure what you have tried so far but there is a pretty easy to follow guide not far back in this thread.
It look like that was a nice board for it's time 

Edit: The B-die list says that ram isn't B-die so I'm not sure of it's overclockability but that's not to say it won't go higher.


----------



## pegadroid

munternet said:


> There is nothing on the motherboard QVL over 3000MHz even though the advertising states UP TO 3733MHz. https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/MAXIMUS_VIII_EXTREME_ASSEMBLY/6L_Memory_QVL.pdf
> At least it is T-topology so that suits your 4 sticks
> Have you found the optimum voltages for vdimm, vccio and vccsa yet? That would be the first thing I would do after loading XMP then lowering the frequency 'till it boots if that's the way you want to go.
> Have you tried running them with the LEDs off?
> Not sure what you have tried so far but there is a pretty easy to follow guide not far back in this thread.
> It look like that was a nice board for it's time
> 
> Edit: The B-die list says that ram isn't B-die so I'm not sure of it's overclockability but that's not to say it won't go higher.


I have run it without the LED on and still not booting.
my ram is B-die I look at Thippon
i try run 3200 with vdimm 1.5, vcsa /io auto or set to 1.3. still random bsod.
i7 6700k 4.7Ghz 1.390 chache min auto max 4.5 LLC level 5, relabenc 1 hours. max temp 82. avg 75 kraken x61
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
on 3000 14-14-14-34 2T i have error in hci 72% but pass 500% with timing 14-15-15-34 2T Vdimm 1.350, sa + io 1.15
I am very frustrated, since i5 2500k, i7 3770k, i7 4790k, i7 6700k and I have never gotten clocked like everyone else. I get below the average. I'm a victim of advertising.


----------



## kongasdf

Jpmboy said:


> ^^ This.
> A very long tREFI can lead to decay of the signal (or cell bit) before a refresh occurs... leading to errors. You cannot assess this with a full-on stress test like HCi or Ramtest, or GSAT. Things like suspend to ram, or a ram disk (corruption) may reveal the signal loss... and an error/loss of fidelity.
> Simply doubling the value set by Auto will usually be error free over time.


Hi Jpmboy,

Someone warned me that higher tREFI would cause a RowHammer problem.

What should I do, meaning that this parameter can no longer be maximized?

I found Passmark Memtest 86 can detect the problem

"Reducing the refresh rate was always known to be a solution, but it is nice to see the details. As you say it does reduce performance and battery life (in laptops)"


----------



## Jpmboy

kongasdf said:


> Hi Jpmboy,
> 
> Someone warned me that higher tREFI would cause a RowHammer problem.
> What should I do, meaning that this parameter can no longer be maximized?
> I found Passmark Memtest 86 can detect the problem
> "Reducing the refresh rate was always known to be a solution, but it is nice to see the details. As you say it does reduce performance and battery life (in laptops)"


tREFI can certainly be maximized, just for some ICs it may be that max is below the chipset ceiling. It's a hard call. Some ICs are fine with a very long (maxed) tREFI, others just can't hold the charge that long. It really is Edisonian for each set of ram, and likely nominally different for each IC on any ram stick. So the max working value is actually defined by the weakest cell.


----------



## chibi

Jpmboy said:


> tREFI can certainly be maximized, just for some ICs it may be that max is below the chipset ceiling. It's a hard call. Some ICs are fine with a very long (maxed) tREFI, others just can't hold the charge that long. It really is Edisonian for each set of ram, and likely nominally different for each IC on any ram stick. So the max working value is actually defined by the weakest cell.



To test the tREFI, would you hibernate the PC for say over night and try to wake it up in the morning?


----------



## mouacyk

chibi said:


> To test the tREFI, would you hibernate the PC for say over night and try to wake it up in the morning?


When an OS hibernates, it copies everything from RAM (volatile memory) to a non-volatile memory (hard drives), then shuts down the system. This is probably not doing what you expected or wanted.

It's Sleep or Suspend to RAM that you're really after. That keeps the RAM alive, but puts the CPU into a HALT state. I honestly don't see how this is any better than a normal RAM test. The refresh interval that tREFI dictates is always happening when RAM is powered on, whether you put load on it or not. I would argue it's better to put a load on it to test it, especially one that checks the integrity of the data and does it as fast as possible.


----------



## chibi

mouacyk said:


> When an OS hibernates, it copies everything from RAM (volatile memory) to a non-volatile memory (hard drives), then shuts down the system. This is probably not doing what you expected or wanted.
> 
> It's Sleep or Suspend to RAM that you're really after. That keeps the RAM alive, but puts the CPU into a HALT state. I honestly don't see how this is any better than a normal RAM test. The refresh interval that tREFI dictates is always happening when RAM is powered on, whether you put load on it or not. I would argue it's better to put a load on it to test it, especially one that checks the integrity of the data and does it as fast as possible.



Thanks for the clarification on Hibernate vs Sleep. My thought was that if putting the system to sleep, it would help determine if the tREFI was set for too high a value, thus not able to hold the charge vs time decay.

Seems complicated to test for. I'll just follow the 3x default value for general day to day gaming and max it out for giggles in benchmark runs. :thumb:


----------



## mouacyk

Once you pass the standard RAM tests (1,000% for HCI or 10,000% for Karhu), your tREFI and tRFC are stable. If they are too aggressive, the standard tests will error just like any other timing.


----------



## KedarWolf

New Aorus Master f10a BIOS, better memory overclock.


----------



## munternet

pegadroid said:


> I have run it without the LED on and still not booting.
> my ram is B-die I look at Thippon
> i try run 3200 with vdimm 1.5, vcsa /io auto or set to 1.3. still random bsod.
> i7 6700k 4.7Ghz 1.390 chache min auto max 4.5 LLC level 5, relabenc 1 hours. max temp 82. avg 75 kraken x61
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> on 3000 14-14-14-34 2T i have error in hci 72% but pass 500% with timing 14-15-15-34 2T Vdimm 1.350, sa + io 1.15
> I am very frustrated, since i5 2500k, i7 3770k, i7 4790k, i7 6700k and I have never gotten clocked like everyone else. I get below the average. I'm a victim of advertising.


Good news that the ram is B-die 
If you are getting random BSOD it might be CPU related. Have you tried dropping the O/C on the CPU to see if it's ram or CPU related?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> tREFI can certainly be maximized, just for some ICs it may be that max is below the chipset ceiling. It's a hard call. Some ICs are fine with a very long (maxed) tREFI, others just can't hold the charge that long. It really is Edisonian for each set of ram, and likely nominally different for each IC on any ram stick. So the max working value is actually defined by the weakest cell.


 @Jpmboy

Totally unrelated question. If you have C States enabled do you even need to put the Windows Power CPU settings at 5% or 0%?

I mean C States work and lower voltages even if you leave it at 100%, right?


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> tREFI can certainly be maximized, just for some ICs it may be that max is below the chipset ceiling. It's a hard call. Some ICs are fine with a very long (maxed) tREFI, others just can't hold the charge that long. It really is Edisonian for each set of ram, and likely nominally different for each IC on any ram stick. So the max working value is actually defined by the weakest cell.


Would having HWInfo open while playing a game show any errors with tREFI maxed out? Is there any way to detect them?

I think maybe once or twice Diablo 3 crashed to the desktop in the last six months or so but I dunno if it was that.


----------



## pegadroid

munternet said:


> Good news that the ram is B-die
> If you are getting random BSOD it might be CPU related. Have you tried dropping the O/C on the CPU to see if it's ram or CPU related?


downclock to 4.6 Ghz 1.340 pass realbench 1 hour. 
then set ram to 3200 *14-14-14-34* 2T 1.370v 
IO + SA 1.20.
run hci error at 9%
then set 3200 *14-15-15-34* 2T 1.370v and pass hci 400%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
is it possible to raise the voltage io / sa / vdimm to minimize hci errors at *14-14-14-34* ?


----------



## KedarWolf

pegadroid said:


> downclock to 4.6 Ghz 1.340 pass realbench 1 hour.
> then set ram to 3200 *14-14-14-34* 2T 1.370v
> IO + SA 1.20.
> run hci error at 9%
> then set 3200 *14-15-15-34* 2T 1.370v and pass hci 400%
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> is it possible to raise the voltage io / sa / vdimm to minimize hci errors at *14-14-14-34* ?


You're safe at up to 1.45v on RAM and 1.25 on SA and VCCIO with b dies. 

Try between 1.4v and 1.45v RAM voltage and 1.22v to 1.25v on SA and VCCIO.


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm shocked how well my B-Die responds to voltage. Settings that pass 2000% HCI on 1.50v vDIMM won't even POST on 1.40v and error like mad on 1.45b for example.

I tried to see how far the voltage scales. I can just keep decreasing all timings with more voltage. I run 4020 @ 16-17-17-28-270-2T on 1.50v but I can go to like, 16-16-16-28-250 on 1.575v and even 15-16-16 on 1.650v lol. Not that I have the guts to run 1.6v on my RAM 24/7 but if it wouldn't be so risky I could so so much further lol..

It doesn't really get awfully hot either. About 50-52c DIMM temps stressed at 1.62v with HCI..


----------



## Nizzen

KedarWolf said:


> pegadroid said:
> 
> 
> 
> downclock to 4.6 Ghz 1.340 pass realbench 1 hour.
> then set ram to 3200 *14-14-14-34* 2T 1.370v
> IO + SA 1.20.
> run hci error at 9%
> then set 3200 *14-15-15-34* 2T 1.370v and pass hci 400%
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> is it possible to raise the voltage io / sa / vdimm to minimize hci errors at *14-14-14-34* ?
> 
> 
> 
> You're safe at up to 1.45v on RAM and 1.25 on SA and VCCIO with b dies.
> 
> Try between 1.4v and 1.45v RAM voltage and 1.22v to 1.25v on SA and VCCIO.
Click to expand...

1.5v dram and 1.3v vccio/vccsa is within Intel spec, so no worries 🙂

G.skill 4400c19 has xmp vccio/sa @ 1.3+ 😛


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I'm shocked how well my B-Die responds to voltage. Settings that pass 2000% HCI on 1.50v vDIMM won't even POST on 1.40v and error like mad on 1.45b for example.
> 
> I tried to see how far the voltage scales. I can just keep decreasing all timings with more voltage. I run 4020 @ 16-17-17-28-270-2T on 1.50v but I can go to like, 16-16-16-28-250 on 1.575v and even 15-16-16 on 1.650v lol. Not that I have the guts to run 1.6v on my RAM 24/7 but if it wouldn't be so risky I could so so much further lol..
> 
> It doesn't really get awfully hot either. About 50-52c DIMM temps stressed at 1.62v with HCI..


Wow, that seems strange.
If I go higher than 1.44v on my vdimm I start to get errors. Same goes if I raise vccio and vccsa past about 1.27v


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Wow, that seems strange.
> If I go higher than 1.44v on my vdimm I start to get errors. Same goes if I raise vccio and vccsa past about 1.27v


That's why it kinda shocked me as well.

Example #2:
4400 18-19-19-35-350-2T 1.50v vDIMM, 1.35 SA 1.25 IO boots but very unstable. SA 1.40 IO 1.30 and vDIMM 1.575v runs stable enough to bench and can even pass 100% HCI. Too scared to run it any longer but still. B-die and SA shouldn't behave like this but it does wierd enough..

Also, how can I run 2000% on my settings with 1.50v vDIMM but not even POST at 1.40 and barely boot to Windows on 1.45...

Same happens if I use lower speed like, 3600 15-15-15-28-270-2T. It won't boot to Windows on 1.42v but seems perfectly HCI stable on 1.50v.. even with just 1.15 SA 1.10 IO...

This goes directly against everything I've read here so far lol..


----------



## SoldierRBT

3200C14 RGB @ 4700 18-19-19-38 1.55v 1.25625v IO 1.33125v SA


----------



## chibi

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200C14 RGB @ 4700 18-19-19-38 1.55v 1.25625v IO 1.33125v SA



That Apex XI is amazing! Nice results :thumb:


----------



## Imprezzion

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200C14 RGB @ 4700 18-19-19-38 1.55v 1.25625v IO 1.33125v SA


Wow. Just Wow.

Well, time for me to go and work on some OC's as well.

Imma strap a fan to my RAM and CPU VRM and try a 1.55v run as well on some random clock / timing combo i like. Might even try to copy your settings a bit but i doubt i can do that as my sticks are worse bin (3466CL16).


----------



## SoldierRBT

chibi said:


> SoldierRBT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3200C14 RGB @ 4700 18-19-19-38 1.55v 1.25625v IO 1.33125v SA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Apex XI is amazing! Nice results /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

Thank you



Imprezzion said:


> SoldierRBT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3200C14 RGB @ 4700 18-19-19-38 1.55v 1.25625v IO 1.33125v SA
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just Wow.
> 
> Well, time for me to go and work on some OC's as well.
> 
> Imma strap a fan to my RAM and CPU VRM and try a 1.55v run as well on some random clock / timing combo i like. Might even try to copy your settings a bit but i doubt i can do that as my sticks are worse bin (3466CL16).
Click to expand...

Thanks. There's still some room left for improvements. Going to try tighter timmings this weekend. I use a 120mm fan to keep them cool. 

I got really luck with this kit. I got two 4600C18 Royal kits and none of them can't even do 4600C17 which is what I use for daily with the 3200C14 kit


----------



## Imprezzion

SoldierRBT said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. There's still some room left for improvements. Going to try tighter timmings this weekend. I use a 120mm fan to keep them cool.
> 
> I got really luck with this kit. I got two 4600C18 Royal kits and none of them can't even do 4600C17 which is what I use for daily with the 3200C14 kit


Yeah well, here's my problem. My 9900K is a fine CPU for core clock OC. It does pretty good voltages at 5.0/5.1 however the IMC is so utterly terrible.. I just tried everything I had the guts for on water to get 4700 to even boot Windows.. not gonna happen.. even 1.6v vDIMM with 19-22-22-40-500-2T and 1,45v SA 1.35v IO would barely load the BIOS... It's 100% IMC as lowering SA / IO instantly makes it fail POST and lower frequencies are "fine".

I'm trying to see what 4400 will get me now as that will at least boot to Windows and start HCI on 1.35v SA 1.32v IO 1.55v vDIMM (with 17-17-17 it errors at 70%)

EDIT: Nope, no matter what i set in terms of voltages, higher, lower, doesn't matter, i cannot for the love of god get even 4400 to do anything more then like, 25% HCI on ANY timings.
Backed down to 4200 on 16-17-17, also errors. I have to admit CL16 on 4200 on this bin chip is pretty enthousiastic so i'm trying 4220 17-17-17-28-280-2T now on 1.55v vDIMM, 1.38v SA 1,34v IO. If this doesn't work either i'm 100% stuck on my 2000% validated clocks of 4020Mhz 16-17-17-28-270-2T on 1.50v vDIMM 1.35v SA 1.28v IO. That's all she can give in terms of IMC if 4200 17-17-17 won't pass now.

I did put a 120mm on my RAM and on my VRM now and temps are great with the A/C blasting on 20c as well. Barely touches 36c for the RAM even on 1.55v so far and CPU is just touching 50 on 1 core so i can't be temp limited in any way either. All secondary / tertiary / RTL+IOL are loose as heck so they won't be too much for the RAM either.

EDIT2: Well, so far so good.. Temps are amazing lol. (see screenshot) Timings on everything but primaries are totally terrible and set super loose so i'll tighten some stuff here and there and let it run for at least 800% or even 2000%..


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200C14 RGB @ 4700 18-19-19-38 1.55v 1.25625v IO 1.33125v SA


Can't buy Apex in this country :'(


----------



## Imprezzion

Test is still running, 800% now. seems stable if a little "YOLO" on the voltages. AIDA bench is nice as well. Well over 61k bandwidth and under 40ns latency. LED's are still on btw.


----------



## PrimoGhost

@ KedarWolf
Can i ask U for an oppinion?

There's my problem... I have Patriot Steel Series 4400 16 Gb kit and i doesn't expected so much from my Mobo - Asus CODE X. But i've made this Set Up from below.

4133-17-17-32

Nothing special, but i'm happy. I've made 1000 % HCI and 2h Prime 95 with 90 % memory load - perfect stable.

But....Cold boot has owned me 

In Windows - it's perfectly stable, but it has problems with booting. Maybe one attempt from three is sucessful. Mobo seems to draw something ( buzzing sound ) RTL and IOL-s are locked. I've tried combine Boot Voltages - FAIL.

I've run out of ideas... With 4000 Mhz strap it's OK. Booting a little to long, but its working. Older UEFI - the same problem.

Dram - 1.44V
SA - 1.225V
IO - 1.2V
BCLK Spread - 1000 mV

I remember that' s You have made 4266 CL 17 Set up on Formula X (?) Do You had a similar issue? These Patriots are very good kit from my friend. Made 4400 CL17 on Gene XI. It's for sure a MObo issue


----------



## KedarWolf

PrimoGhost said:


> @ KedarWolf
> Can i ask U for an oppinion?
> 
> There's my problem... I have Patriot Steel Series 4400 16 Gb kit and i doesn't expected so much from my Mobo - Asus CODE X. But i've made this Set Up from below.
> 
> 4133-17-17-32
> 
> Nothing special, but i'm happy. I've made 1000 % HCI and 2h Prime 95 with 90 % memory load - perfect stable.
> 
> But....Cold boot has owned me
> 
> In Windows - it's perfectly stable, but it has problems with booting. Maybe one attempt from three is sucessful. Mobo seems to draw something ( buzzing sound ) RTL and IOL-s are locked. I've tried combine Boot Voltages - FAIL.
> 
> I've run out of ideas... With 4000 Mhz strap it's OK. Booting a little to long, but its working. Older UEFI - the same problem.
> 
> Dram - 1.44V
> SA - 1.225V
> IO - 1.2V
> BCLK Spread - 1000 mV
> 
> I remember that' s You have made 4266 CL 17 Set up on Formula X (?) Do You had a similar issue? These Patriots are very good kit from my friend. Made 4400 CL17 on Gene XI. It's for sure a MObo issue


You manually set IOLs and RTLs? That's probably the issue. 

Put them all on Auto, lower the IOL Offset in BIOS, reboot, then manually set them what the lower IOL Offset sets them at, leaving the IOL Offset what you lowered it to.

That was the only way I could manually change my IOLs etc. on my Formula.

*Best way to lower RTLs.*

Setting DRAM Write Latency and CHA IO_Latency_offset will lower RTLs etc successfully. Lower the IOL Offset, reboot, then manually set the RTLs and OILS what they are at after the reboot.You want to go as low as you can with CHA IO_Latency_offset and still be GSAT and MemTest stable. I find on my 8700k depending on my RAM speed between 14-16 usually is best. at 4200 I run it at 15 stable. I run 4200MHZ rather than 4400 as I get really great timings at that speed and can have the cache at 5.1GHZ instead of 4.6GHZ with really improves my AIDA64 memory and cache test speeds.




























*Edit: This is with CHA IO_Latency_offset on Auto.*


----------



## Fissa

KedarWolf I benefit alot from your posts now and in the past  ty


----------



## Apothysis

Finally managed to get some improvements on my 3200CL16 dual rank kit. Ended up with +23% on read, write and copy and -14% on latency compared to XMP-values.




Spoiler



CPU's running at 5GHz not 4.3, ignore that line in AIDA










 

This is with 1.46v DRAM, 1.2v VCCSA/VCCIO. I'm happy with the frequency but a little disappointed by tRCD/tRP. Can't get 20 stable even at 1.6v on the ram and 1.35 VCCSA/VCCIO, had to bump the frequency down to 3600 which ended up being worse, at least in AIDA. Any suggestions that might help me get it down?


----------



## PrimoGhost

KedarWolf said:


> You manually set IOLs and RTLs? That's probably the issue.


Not completely. I used your technique with tCWL and IOL-offset. You wrote about it.....250 sites ago ? I used it with my trident Z 3200/14 and again with Patriots. When i got a nice RTL-s i locked them up. But it isn't a problem i suppose. RTL on AUTO and i still have problem with booting. Q-code doesn't help a lot.... CODE 55, A10 - sometimes 00 ( heheh )

When i turn the option - MRC full memory check to DISABLED - Mobo's rebooting almost instantly. But.... sometimes the system isn't stable after it 

I'v start to wonder - there's no some "magical" option in "tweaker paradise" to switch? Today i've tried to combine with the DMI voltage ( yes, i know 8700k isn't a Skylake X : ) but it useless.

Maybe my MOBO's a low bin? I think it's stupid. I've made a 1000% HCI stable set but i have problem with booting on it 

P.S - You're a true hero of this thread 4 many people. Including Me. I've lerned a lot from You. Thank You.


----------



## chibi

KedarWolf said:


> You manually set IOLs and RTLs? That's probably the issue.
> 
> Put them all on Auto, lower the IOL Offset in BIOS, reboot, then manually set them what the lower IOL Offset sets them at, leaving the IOL Offset what you lowered it to.
> 
> That was the only way I could manually change my IOLs etc. on my Formula.
> 
> *Best way to lower RTLs.*
> 
> Setting DRAM Write Latency and CHA IO_Latency_offset will lower RTLs etc successfully. Lower the IOL Offset, reboot, then manually set the RTLs and OILS what they are at after the reboot.You want to go as low as you can with CHA IO_Latency_offset and still be GSAT and MemTest stable. I find on my 8700k depending on my RAM speed between 14-16 usually is best. at 4200 I run it at 15 stable. I run 4200MHZ rather than 4400 as I get really great timings at that speed and can have the cache at 5.1GHZ instead of 4.6GHZ with really improves my AIDA64 memory and cache test speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit: This is with CHA IO_Latency_offset on Auto.*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


What do you mean by "manually set" them? Set the IOL Offset in bios. Reset to Windows. Run timing config, then reset to bios.

Once in bios, now you can manually set the RTL's based on the timing report previously in the OS? And leave the Offset where it was?


----------



## KedarWolf

chibi said:


> What do you mean by "manually set" them? Set the IOL Offset in bios. Reset to Windows. Run timing config, then reset to bios.
> 
> Once in bios, now you can manually set the RTL's based on the timing report previously in the OS? And leave the Offset where it was?


You set the IOL Offset, reboot into the BIOS, then manually set the RTLs and IOLs what they are at in the BIOS by copying the numbers you see at the right and typing the same numbers in the left, change from Auto to the numbers to the right of Auto in the BIOS.


----------



## chibi

KedarWolf said:


> You set the IOL Offset, reboot into the BIOS, then manually set the RTLs and IOLs what they are at in the BIOS by copying the numbers you see at the right and typing the same numbers in the left, change from Auto to the numbers to the right of Auto in the BIOS.



Thank you! I'll give it a try. I've always just left the RTL and IO's on auto. So keep lowering the IOL until system doesn't boot anymore, then test for stability? Then raise until stable HCI/GSAT?


----------



## KedarWolf

chibi said:


> Thank you! I'll give it a try. I've always just left the RTL and IO's on auto. So keep lowering the IOL until system doesn't boot anymore, then test for stability? Then raise until stable HCI/GSAT?


Yes, exactly. Sorry, typo, Lower the IOL Offset like in the post with the pictures.

Edit: You'll get a good increase in AIDA64 memory and cache test and your latency will be lower which is better!

Second edit: Change Auto to the RTLs and IOLs on the left of Auto AFTER setting the IOL Offset and rebooting back into the BIOS.


----------



## whitepuzzle

How do these settings look for 3200C14 G.Skill B-die?

I cannot seem to get any frequency above 4133 to even POST, no matter what timings, sub timings, VCCSA, VCCIO or DRAM V I use.

It's stable for >6 hours in P95 Large FFT. What is the best program to test RAM with? Also, what would be a "safe" tREFI value on this setup (Z370 Extreme4). Don't want to risk silently corrupt data from tREFI tweaking but it does make a relevant difference in performance from my testing.


----------



## robertr1

whitepuzzle said:


> How do these settings look for 3200C14 G.Skill B-die?
> 
> I cannot seem to get any frequency above 4133 to even POST, no matter what timings, sub timings, VCCSA, VCCIO or DRAM V I use.
> 
> It's stable for >6 hours in P95 Large FFT. What is the best program to test RAM with? Also, what would be a "safe" tREFI value on this setup (Z370 Extreme4). Don't want to risk silently corrupt data from tREFI tweaking but it does make a relevant difference in performance from my testing.


Download memtest https://hcidesign.com/memtest/ and memtesthelper: https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/releases 

memtesthelper is just a macro that will click all the necessary buttons for you to start up all the instances. You need to put "memtest.exe" into the same folder as mtesthelper after you unzip both. 

Run 2-3gb below your max RAM and use as many threads as you have in your cpu. Under options set it to 400%. See if you get errors. 1 error = unstable.


----------



## Imprezzion

whitepuzzle said:


> How do these settings look for 3200C14 G.Skill B-die?
> 
> I cannot seem to get any frequency above 4133 to even POST, no matter what timings, sub timings, VCCSA, VCCIO or DRAM V I use.
> 
> It's stable for >6 hours in P95 Large FFT. What is the best program to test RAM with? Also, what would be a "safe" tREFI value on this setup (Z370 Extreme4). Don't want to risk silently corrupt data from tREFI tweaking but it does make a relevant difference in performance from my testing.


Looking great but tWR, tRTP and tCWL are way way high. Try 20 to 16 tWR, 10 tRTP and 14 to 12 tCWL and adjust tWRPRE accordingly - tWR+tCWL+4 as a guideline.

For reference I run 16 tWR, 12 tCWL and 10 tRTP on 4220Mhz which gives me 32 tWRPRE.

Test for stability like robertr1 said in the previous post.

Also, tREFI, usually doubling the "Auto" value is a good starting point but it is dependant on your tRFC which is also way way too high on 560. Test with 24000 tREFI and 350 tRFC first then drop tRFC to the point of errors. B-Die usually sits around 280-320 on these clocks.


----------



## whitepuzzle

Imprezzion said:


> Looking great but tWR, tRTP and tCWL are way way high. Try 20 to 16 tWR, 10 tRTP and 14 to 12 tCWL and adjust tWRPRE accordingly - tWR+tCWL+4 as a guideline.
> 
> For reference I run 16 tWR, 12 tCWL and 10 tRTP on 4220Mhz which gives me 32 tWRPRE.
> 
> Test for stability like robertr1 said in the previous post.
> 
> Also, tREFI, usually doubling the "Auto" value is a good starting point but it is dependant on your tRFC which is also way way too high on 560. Test with 24000 tREFI and 350 tRFC first then drop tRFC to the point of errors. B-Die usually sits around 280-320 on these clocks.


Does low tRFC cause silent data corruption too or will it show up as errors?

Got to 400% in memtest without errors. Since I just have a quad core CPU (8350K) I can "only" test 8192MB of memory with the tool but I have 16GB, is that fine?


----------



## munternet

whitepuzzle said:


> How do these settings look for 3200C14 G.Skill B-die?
> 
> I cannot seem to get any frequency above 4133 to even POST, no matter what timings, sub timings, VCCSA, VCCIO or DRAM V I use.
> 
> It's stable for >6 hours in P95 Large FFT. What is the best program to test RAM with? Also, what would be a "safe" tREFI value on this setup (Z370 Extreme4). Don't want to risk silently corrupt data from tREFI tweaking but it does make a relevant difference in performance from my testing.


I don't know what's the best but I like to do a memtest86 test6 about 10 passes (especially to quickly centralize the voltages) then on to Runmemtest and P95 v26.6, then BFV to stress AVX and to see if I get kicked to desktop and lately realbench to really get the fans pumping (I suspect that works AVX) 
I'm probably doing it wrong and I don't push it like some do , but that's stable and my scores are reasonable.

Also HWiNFO64 has far too much information, so I like to cut it back a bit. If I don't use a feature I remove it. You can even change the colors and set the overtemp to go red/bold and change the headings.
Once you have it how you like it you can save the settings, in the form of a .reg file I think it is, for later


----------



## zGunBLADEz

KedarWolf said:


> Would having HWInfo open while playing a game show any errors with tREFI maxed out? Is there any way to detect them?
> 
> I think maybe once or twice Diablo 3 crashed to the desktop in the last six months or so but I dunno if it was that.


best way to notice a high trefi its cold boots it will reboot the pc couple of times till ram warm up and it will stop doing it


----------



## Jpmboy

whitepuzzle said:


> Does low tRFC cause silent data corruption too or will it show up as errors?
> 
> Got to 400% in memtest without errors. Since I just have a quad core CPU (8350K) I can "only" test 8192MB of memory with the tool but I have 16GB, is that fine?


 low (or short) tRFC will show as errors in most any ram stress test. With a 4 core or 2c/4t processor use Google StressAppTest or RamTest. GSAT runs under the built-in Windows Linux subsystem (google windows BASH or Windows Linux). It's very easy to set up.
then for 1 hour of testing (and 1 hour is good with this stressor) use this command for 16GB:
_stressapptest -W -M 12288 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Usually a "Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error" according to eventvwr. And very very rarely it would even WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR 0x0124 BSOD while gaming. Not when stressing.
> On the slightly looser tertiary's it's perfectly fine now unless i really crack my uncore / cache past 4.6Ghz on anything less than 1.30v vcore.


a 124 is typical of a ram/qpi/bclk issue... and in your case a very short tRFC and long tREFI is most likely leading to signal (charge) loss.


----------



## chibi

New submission, popped in a new 9900K R0 cpu.

CPU OC - 8 hours Realbench v2.56 0 AVX Offset stable (No WHEA Errors)
Cache OC - 3.5 hours Aida64 Cache test stable (No WHEA Errors)

chibi --- i9-9900K @ 5.0/4.7 1.335V --- 4000Mhz-C17-17-17-38-2T --- 1.450V --- VSA 1.250V --- VCCIO 1.2375V --- HCI Memtest 1300%

Ram Kit - G.SKILL F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK


*IMC on this 9900K is a dud compared to my 8700K, which can do 4200 C17-17-38 1T at 1.435V, with VCCSA 1.225, VCCIO 1.200.


----------



## munternet

chibi said:


> New submission, popped in a new 9900K R0 cpu.
> 
> CPU OC - 8 hours Realbench v2.56 0 AVX Offset stable (No WHEA Errors)
> Cache OC - 3.5 hours Aida64 Cache test stable (No WHEA Errors)
> 
> chibi --- i9-9900K @ 5.0/4.7 1.335V --- 4000Mhz-C17-17-17-38-2T --- 1.450V --- VSA 1.250V --- VCCIO 1.2375V --- HCI Memtest 1300%
> 
> Ram Kit - G.SKILL F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK
> 
> 
> *IMC on this 9900K is a dud compared to my 8700K, which can do 4200 C17-17-38 1T at 1.435V, with VCCSA 1.225, VCCIO 1.200.


Wow, big difference in the IMC then. I thought the 9900k was supposed to be an IMC upgrade. 
Ram temps seem a little high?
I was thinking about upgrading to the 9900k when the prices drop a little but now I'm not so sure. I guess the overall performance bump would be quite good though 

Edit: What are your thoughts on the R0?


----------



## Imprezzion

So far I haven't noticed any meaningful difference between r0 and p0 chips honestly reading through the multiple threads here and on other forum's / reddit.

Maybe, and it's a long shot, the cache / IMC is slightly better on the r0 as I see most people hitting 4.7 cache pretty easily and both p0's I've played with cut out at 4.5 and 4.6 and need more IO/SA voltage for 4000+ RAM but yeah. Might be lottery as well.


----------



## Speedster159

In general what's the best memory speed and timing to get with a 9900K?


----------



## KedarWolf

Speedster159 said:


> In general what's the best memory speed and timing to get with a 9900K?


I'm stress testing 4200Mhz 17-17-17-38 2T since someone suggested have DRAM Termination at 50% of DRAM voltage, but been running those timings at 4133MHz.

This is with 4x8GB on a Gigabyte board. 2 DIMM boards clock quite a bit faster. :h34r-smi


----------



## CptSpig

raad11 said:


> Unbelievably, this has also worked for me with the same kit as his (but 2x8GB). My issue is that it failed Ramtest after 10 min when temps went over 50 C. I turned the AC up a bit and voltage kept at 1.4v (it was 1.5v before) and it's hovering around 48 C after 50 minutes and counting so far.
> 
> I have a Corsair 200R case. For all of you, should I put a fan on the top of the case right above the RAM? Should it be in a push or pull position?


Good to hear it works for your system! Keeping your memory cool is important for stability. :thumb:


----------



## chibi

munternet said:


> Wow, big difference in the IMC then. I thought the 9900k was supposed to be an IMC upgrade.
> Ram temps seem a little high?
> I was thinking about upgrading to the 9900k when the prices drop a little but now I'm not so sure. I guess the overall performance bump would be quite good though
> 
> Edit: What are your thoughts on the R0?



It's all silicon lottery imo. My 8700K had a really good IMC and this 9900K is below average imo. As well, I'm still on z370 for my system board so I don't expect the best. I would wait for the 9900KS if you're planning on one but can wait.


----------



## raad11

CptSpig said:


> Good to hear it works for your system! Keeping your memory cool is important for stability. :thumb:


Lol, damn.

For future reference to thread browsers, I got it (G.Skill F4-3600C15-8GTZ) to 4000 MHz, 16-17-17-38 / 2T (tried 1T and the system wouldn't even start, oh well). It was stable through several hours of Ramtest.

So in the 200R, the empty 3x5.25" drive bays are right in front of the RAM, so I'm putting a quiet 120mm Noctua intake fan with mesh/grill in the drive bays and the air will go right over the ram first before the CPU/heatsink, and the exhaust fan lines up with it as well.


----------



## moorhen2

Finally got this Team Group extreme 8Pack edition 4000mhz kit stable at 4500mhz, C18-20-20-44-2T at 1.45v, now to start tinkering with Secondaries and Tertiaries.


----------



## robertr1

Should training voltage be lower or higher than running voltage? 
Is command rate tied to voltage, timings or board (trace/pcb) quality?


----------



## Jpmboy

robertr1 said:


> Should training voltage be lower or higher than running voltage?
> Is command rate tied to voltage, timings or board (trace/pcb) quality?


What MB?


----------



## Jpmboy

POsted Stability data for these settings months ago. Rig has been on 24/7 since then (boinc and folding) with a 12GB ramcache. Running very solid. 64GB 3600c16 sticks at 4200c17 on x299. 
Dram switching freq at 750. Boot dram voltage at 1.52V.


----------



## chibi

@Jpmboy - do you know where I can get the latest copy of Asus TurboV Core?


----------



## ViTosS

Jpmboy said:


> POsted Stability data for these settings months ago. Rig has been on 24/7 since then (boinc and folding) with a 12GB ramcache. Running very solid. 64GB 3600c16 sticks at 4200c17 on x299.
> Dram switching freq at 750. Boot dram voltage at 1.52V.


Hey Jpm, interesting you tested GR Wildlands, this game is really PCIEX lanes demanding, I mean, my friend who had a 6800k and changed to 6850k (more PCIEX lanes) noticed a huge improvement in GPU usage for SLI (1080Ti back in the day) running at 4k this game in specific, do you have a 9900k in which you could run the same benchmark at 4k but now with two RTX 2080Tis? We still don't know yet what would perform better for SLI, an 9900X (more lanes) or 9900k (16 lanes PCIEX) at 5.0Ghz for 2080Ti SLI, so if you could run the test we could compare with a friend who has an i9 7900X and two RTX 2080Tis.


----------



## KedarWolf

KedarWolf - i9 9900K @5.0/4.7 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4200Mhz C17-18-18-39-2T 1.44v SA 1.25v VCCIO 1.23v - HCI 200%

Voltages in the second pic. Someone suggested I put DRAM Termination at half my RAM voltage, got me to 4200MHz.


----------



## Imprezzion

KedarWolf said:


> KedarWolf - i9 9900K @5.0/4.7 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4200Mhz C17-18-18-39-2T 1.44v SA 1.25v VCCIO 1.23v - HCI 200%
> 
> Voltages in the second pic. Someone suggested I put DRAM Termination at half my RAM voltage, got me to 4200MHz.


Lol how are you running tRTP 6 haha. That won't even POST on my sticks at comparable speed and timings lol. 

Then again, my RTL/IO and tCWL is much lower. Can you do 17-17-17-34-2T at a bit more DRAM voltage? It made a huge difference in latency in AIDA on my system going from 17-18-18 to that. Also, 374 tRFC might have quite some room in it.

One more thing, how did you get tRDWR so low.. I can't run anything near that and am stuck around the 18-21 mark. It does do straight 15's on 4000 but on 4200 I have to raise them quite a bit even at 1.55v..

I might have to play with termination voltages and switching frequency's a bit as they are still on Auto.


----------



## KedarWolf

Imprezzion said:


> Lol how are you running tRTP 6 haha. That won't even POST on my sticks at comparable speed and timings lol.
> 
> Then again, my RTL/IO and tCWL is much lower. Can you do 17-17-17-34-2T at a bit more DRAM voltage? It made a huge difference in latency in AIDA on my system going from 17-18-18 to that. Also, 374 tRFC might have quite some room in it.
> 
> One more thing, how did you get tRDWR so low.. I can't run anything near that and am stuck around the 18-21 mark. It does do straight 15's on 4000 but on 4200 I have to raise them quite a bit even at 1.55v..
> 
> I might have to play with termination voltages and switching frequency's a bit as they are still on Auto.


You might want to try your timings with tCWL at 14 and tighten your other timings.

tCWL at 12. Had to put tRDWRs and tWRRDs at 15.

Edit: I tried up to 1.47v on RAM, won't do 17-17-17-38 2T. 




























tCWL at 14. Note: RTLs and IOLs don't change. I ran 12 tWCL twice in AIDA64, both times tWCL at 14 with the 13 tRDWRs and tWRRDs was faster. Plus I haven't tested the 12 for stability.


----------



## Imprezzion

I have to admit, I can't run 17-17-17 at anything onder 1.52v and with my current subtimings I need 1.55v to be stable (ran 1400% on 13GB RAM no errors). I think 1.55v is quite YOLO but then again, they don't get hot at all and respond really well to voltage so far so.. I'll see how long they last.

I'll try your suggestion for a bit higher tCWL. I do run 12 yeah. And tWR 16 with 32 tWRPRE. That combined with a bit of tweaking to termination and frequency response might get me lower tRWDR. My latency benches the same as yours basically at around 39.5 but my bandwidth is slightly lower. 61 read 63 write 60 copy. Even with RTL/IO at 69 ish. But first, time to install my EK MLC Phoenix tonight


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Imprezzion said:


> I have to admit, I can't run 17-17-17 at anything onder 1.52v and with my current subtimings I need 1.55v to be stable (ran 1400% on 13GB RAM no errors). I think 1.55v is quite YOLO but then again, they don't get hot at all and respond really well to voltage so far so.. I'll see how long they last.
> 
> I'll try your suggestion for a bit higher tCWL. I do run 12 yeah. And tWR 16 with 32 tWRPRE. That combined with a bit of tweaking to termination and frequency response might get me lower tRWDR. My latency benches the same as yours basically at around 39.5 but my bandwidth is slightly lower. 61 read 63 write 60 copy. Even with RTL/IO at 69 ish. But first, time to install my EK MLC Phoenix tonight


raise the middle 17 2-3 higher and lower the voltage to 1.42mV


----------



## Jpmboy

chibi said:


> @*Jpmboy* - do you know where I can get the latest copy of Asus TurboV Core?


it's really board specific. which MB do you want TVC for?


ViTosS said:


> Hey Jpm, interesting you tested GR Wildlands, this game is really PCIEX lanes demanding, I mean, my friend who had a 6800k and changed to 6850k (more PCIEX lanes) noticed a huge improvement in GPU usage for SLI (1080Ti back in the day) running at 4k this game in specific, do you have a 9900k in which you could run the same benchmark at 4k but now with two RTX 2080Tis? We still don't know yet what would perform better for SLI, an 9900X (more lanes) or 9900k (16 lanes PCIEX) at 5.0Ghz for 2080Ti SLI, so if you could run the test we could compare with a friend who has an i9 7900X and two RTX 2080Tis.


 eh, I do not have a 9900K, but any Z390 or Z370 will run two 2080Tis at x8 not x16 each... so if PCIE lanes are important for this game then x16 will be beneficial. But that is usually not the case since satuation of the x8 bandwidth is VERY rare. 

I ran that bench since @Barefooter set up a thread for the Ghost Recon Benchmark.


----------



## robertr1

Jpmboy said:


> What MB?


Auros Pro Wifi. Has a freq wall at 3600mhz with 2dimms. Seems to not hit cl14/3600. CR1 is hit n miss on training. vccio: 1.2 sa: 1.23 dram: 1.5 training: 1.15

The best I can do for now:


----------



## Kimir

Nice fps in Wildland, when I see how bad the 2x780Ti KPE oc'ed do in there... even the 980Ti does better (no SLI glitches).
But that's off topic.

On topic, I've just seen the "Trident Z Neo DDR4-3800 CL14" for Ryzen reveal, I wonder how those would do on Intel, if any of you get them I'm interested to know.


----------



## Jpmboy

robertr1 said:


> Auros Pro Wifi. Has a freq wall at 3600mhz with 2dimms. Seems to not hit cl14/3600. CR1 is hit n miss on training. vccio: 1.2 sa: 1.23 dram: 1.5 training: 1.15
> 
> The best I can do for now:


in some configurations running the training voltage higher than "eventual dram voltage" can help align things like RTLs and IOLs. Only way to know is to try.


----------



## chibi

Jpmboy said:


> it's really board specific. which MB do you want TVC for?



ASUS z370 Apex X please and thank you


----------



## Jpmboy

chibi said:


> ASUS z370 Apex X please and thank you


 too big to post to the thread so: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V3aKmkJ2TyXUrPIzK5fVs30V0szTahNJ




Kimir said:


> Nice fps in Wildland, when I see how bad the 2x780Ti KPE oc'ed do in there... even the 980Ti does better (no SLI glitches).
> But that's off topic.
> 
> On topic, I've just seen the "Trident Z Neo DDR4-3800 CL14" for Ryzen reveal, I wonder how those would do on Intel, if any of you get them I'm interested to know.


hey buddy! that 3800 kit looks interesting. for what it's worth, the FlareX for ryzen have worked just great on z370 here (3200c14s). Up to 4500c17 !


----------



## chibi

Jpmboy said:


> too big to post to the thread so: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V3aKmkJ2TyXUrPIzK5fVs30V0szTahNJ



Awesome, thanks boss! :specool:


----------



## ViTosS

Jpmboy said:


> it's really board specific. which MB do you want TVC for?
> 
> eh, I do not have a 9900K, but any Z390 or Z370 will run two 2080Tis at x8 not x16 each... so if PCIE lanes are important for this game then x16 will be beneficial. But that is usually not the case since satuation of the x8 bandwidth is VERY rare.
> 
> I ran that bench since @Barefooter set up a thread for the Ghost Recon Benchmark.


Yes we know that, but we couldn't find any test for SLI 1080Tis or 2080Tis using 8700k or 9900k in Wildlands to analize the behavior of the two cards.


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> Yes we know that, but we couldn't find any test for SLI 1080Tis or 2080Tis using 8700k or 9900k in Wildlands to analize the behavior of the two cards.


like I said, I'll run 4K later with the gear I have access to. :thumb:


----------



## ViTosS

Jpmboy said:


> like I said, I'll run 4K later with the gear I have access to. :thumb:


Please run in all your rigs if won't bother you and post the benchmark final screen so I can compare with my friends, thanks man!

This is his run using i9 7900X and RTX 2080Tis SLI, I don't know the specific frequency of CPU/GPU/RAM, but he couldn't beat you, what was your frequencies on the 9900x and GPUs beside the 4200CL17 RAM?


----------



## eeroo94

These are my settings with HyperX 3600 MHz CL17 kit, think I got pretty much all out of them at this point.

[


----------



## eeroo94

double post


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> Please run in all your rigs if won't bother you and post the benchmark final screen so I can compare with my friends, thanks man!
> 
> This is his run using i9 7900X and RTX 2080Tis SLI, I don't know the specific frequency of CPU/GPU/RAM, but he couldn't beat you, what was your frequencies on the 9900x and GPUs beside the 4200CL17 RAM?


https://www.overclock.net/forum/410...-recon-wildlands-bench-thon.html#post28077542


----------



## ViTosS

Jpmboy said:


> https://www.overclock.net/forum/410...-recon-wildlands-bench-thon.html#post28077542


I posted there, we found on the internet a 9900k with 2x2080Tis having less FPS em 4k ultra in various games (not only Wildlands) compared to 1080Tis SLI (way less power but with more than 32x PCIEX Lanes available), yep the result is like that, 2080Tis performing lower than 1080Tis just because of the CPU.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ViTosS said:


> Please run in all your rigs if won't bother you and post the benchmark final screen so I can compare with my friends, thanks man!
> 
> This is his run using i9 7900X and RTX 2080Tis SLI, I don't know the specific frequency of CPU/GPU/RAM, but he couldn't beat you, what was your frequencies on the 9900x and GPUs beside the 4200CL17 RAM?


i do like 135fps on 1440P on 1080Tis in sli.. with a 7940x i know what your problem is hpet tick XD

cmd prompt 
bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

to enable it back if you want to
bcdedit /set useplatformclock true

recheck your results cheers

make sure you recheck all of your overclocks on ram and cpu after playing with hpet lol

btw at 1440P the difference on 2080tis vs 1080tis its not that large on sli difference is i get almost 99% usage on that particular title


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> i do like 135fps on 1440P on 1080Tis in sli.. with a 7940x i know what your problem is hpet tick XD
> 
> cmd prompt
> bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
> 
> to enable it back if you want to
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> 
> recheck your results cheers
> 
> make sure you recheck all of your overclocks on ram and cpu after playing with hpet lol


 or simply without deleting the value:

_bcdedit /set useplatformclock false_


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> or simply without deleting the value:
> 
> _bcdedit /set useplatformclock false_


Hi,
Sorry to be off topic
Is your x99 having issues with asrock memory config ?
Mine is oddly it's not reading right at all version 4.3 or 4.4 :/

I was thinking it was 1903 seeing I rolled bios back to 2101 on my 5930k now.
It used to work fine but that was mostly on 1709.


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Sorry to be off topic
> Is your x99 having issues with asrock memory config ?
> Mine is oddly it's not reading right at all version 4.3 or 4.4 :/
> 
> I was thinking it was 1903 seeing I rolled bios back to 2101 on my 5930k now.
> It used to work fine but that was mostly on 1709.


use version 3.0.6 with the R5E-10.


----------



## moorhen2

Still playing with this Team Group Extreme (8pack) Samsung B-Die, A2 IC's, 4000mhz kit, at 4533mhz at the moment, 18-20-20-44 2T, looking at frequency for now, will then look at timings, the timings I am using are stock for the 4500mhz kit from the same manufacturer.


----------



## chibi

moorhen2 said:


> Still playing with this Team Group Extreme (8pack) Samsung B-Die, A2 IC's, 4000mhz kit, at 4533mhz at the moment, 18-20-20-44 2T, looking at frequency for now, will then look at timings, the timings I am using are stock for the 4500mhz kit from the same manufacturer.



May I ask that you post up your Aida memory benchmark once you get your sec/tert timings done? I would like to compare your high freq timings vs my low freq timings. Since my IMC is a bit of a dud, may as well go for bust instead of being conservative with the Volts


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> use version 3.0.6 with the R5E-10.


Hi,
Yikes where did you get/ find that old one at


----------



## raad11

CptSpig said:


> Good to hear it works for your system! Keeping your memory cool is important for stability. :thumb:


So this is weird, a few days ago I tested those settings at 1.4v without issues. Several hours of Ramtest

Today I installed two cooling fans (one front panel in 5.25" bays and one exhaust on top facing up directly above RAM) and a second PCIE and CPU (EPS12V) power supply cables (only had 1 each before).

So now it started failing Ramtest after 10-15 min...

I've tried messing with all sorts of settings, put voltage up to 1.45, termination voltage, ddr vpp, etc.

Other than these things, the only difference is the passage of time. Is this normal? For memory to be stable one day or for a couple of days, then just... stop?


----------



## raad11

raad11 said:


> So this is weird, a few days ago I tested those settings at 1.4v without issues. Several hours of Ramtest
> 
> Today I installed two cooling fans (one front panel in 5.25" bays and one exhaust on top facing up directly above RAM) and a second PCIE and CPU (EPS12V) power supply cables (only had 1 each before).
> 
> So now it started failing Ramtest after 10-15 min...
> 
> I've tried messing with all sorts of settings, put voltage up to 1.45, termination voltage, ddr vpp, etc.
> 
> Other than these things, the only difference is the passage of time. Is this normal? For memory to be stable one day or for a couple of days, then just... stop?


The other odd thing is that initially when VCCSA and IO were set to Auto, it'd go for 1.3v each. Now when it's set to auto, it's going to 1.33-1.35v. What the heck? Why would it start changing that too? Everything else is the same as it was otherwise.


----------



## raad11

Also, my VR VIN is 11.81-11.84V. Is this okay?


----------



## ViTosS

zGunBLADEz said:


> i do like 135fps on 1440P on 1080Tis in sli.. with a 7940x i know what your problem is hpet tick XD
> 
> cmd prompt
> bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
> 
> to enable it back if you want to
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> 
> recheck your results cheers
> 
> make sure you recheck all of your overclocks on ram and cpu after playing with hpet lol
> 
> btw at 1440P the difference on 2080tis vs 1080tis its not that large on sli difference is i get almost 99% usage on that particular title


But this HPET thing works better disabled for all games or just Wildlands?


----------



## raad11

zGunBLADEz said:


> i do like 135fps on 1440P on 1080Tis in sli.. with a 7940x i know what your problem is hpet tick XD
> 
> cmd prompt
> bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
> 
> to enable it back if you want to
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> 
> recheck your results cheers
> 
> make sure you recheck all of your overclocks on ram and cpu after playing with hpet lol
> 
> btw at 1440P the difference on 2080tis vs 1080tis its not that large on sli difference is i get almost 99% usage on that particular title


On what CPUs and motherboards does this help?


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> But this HPET thing works better disabled for all games or just Wildlands?


It depends on what the game uses as it's timer. HPET is now a Windows (software) device whereas old motherboards had a bios switch.


raad11 said:


> On what CPUs and motherboards does this help?


If you have win 10 (or 7) and any MB architecture from th elast 4-5 years.


----------



## CptSpig

raad11 said:


> So this is weird, a few days ago I tested those settings at 1.4v without issues. Several hours of Ramtest
> 
> Today I installed two cooling fans (one front panel in 5.25" bays and one exhaust on top facing up directly above RAM) and a second PCIE and CPU (EPS12V) power supply cables (only had 1 each before).
> 
> So now it started failing Ramtest after 10-15 min...
> 
> I've tried messing with all sorts of settings, put voltage up to 1.45, termination voltage, ddr vpp, etc.
> 
> Other than these things, the only difference is the passage of time. Is this normal? For memory to be stable one day or for a couple of days, then just... stop?


Go back to original set ie: remove cables and fans. Run test again. If it passes plug just the fans in and run again. If that passes plug the other cables in PCIE and CPU. Process of elimination. :headscrat:


----------



## raad11

CptSpig said:


> Go back to original set ie: remove cables and fans. Run test again. If it passes plug just the fans in and run again. If that passes plug the other cables in PCIE and CPU. Process of elimination. :headscrat:


Still giving errors, even though I went back to exact settings. So then I set VCCIO/VCCSA at Auto and it went to 1.33v for both and then it ran Ramtest for 2.5 hours before getting an error. Temps were 47.0 C / 46.8 C so I don't know if it was temperature related, but it's possible? When I ran it for several hours successfully a few days ago, the temps stayed at 45 C or under.

I plugged the CPU cable in again before this 2.5 hour run and the VR VIN is actually more stable and dips less with it (11.844V under load, whereas it was 11.81V before under load).

Is 1.33v on auto safe for VCCSA/VCCIO? Should I plug in the fans and try it at those settings again? Or try other variations with that on Auto? Barring that, should I try raising the DIMM voltage? Or can I slow down the timings some other way? Ideally I'd like to keep 4000/CL16 if possible, but that's beyond the stock specs I know


----------



## CptSpig

raad11 said:


> Still giving errors, even though I went back to exact settings. So then I set VCCIO/VCCSA at Auto and it went to 1.33v for both and then it ran Ramtest for 2.5 hours before getting an error. Temps were 47.0 C / 46.8 C so I don't know if it was temperature related, but it's possible? When I ran it for several hours successfully a few days ago, the temps stayed at 45 C or under.
> 
> I plugged the CPU cable in again before this 2.5 hour run and the VR VIN is actually more stable and dips less with it (11.844V under load, whereas it was 11.81V before under load).
> 
> Is 1.33v on auto safe for VCCSA/VCCIO? Should I plug in the fans and try it at those settings again? Or try other variations with that on Auto? Barring that, should I try raising the DIMM voltage? Or can I slow down the timings some other way? Ideally I'd like to keep 4000/CL16 if possible, but that's beyond the stock specs I know


Can you post a Asrock Timing Configurator screen shot?


----------



## raad11

CptSpig said:


> Can you post a Asrock Timing Configurator screen shot?


Okay, here


----------



## raad11

Btw, plugged in fans and just hit 2 hours Ramtest, temps haven't gone over 44 C / 42 C (one DIMM is 1-2 degrees cooler with the fans). VCCSA/VCCIO are still at 1.33v though.

ALSO. I didn't mention this earlier, but I did NOT disable Speedstep/Speedshift and C-States in the BIOS (system is usually running 24-7, wanted to save some power when I'm not there). Can this cause sporadic memory errors?

EDIT: 3 hours in Ramtest, same temps (with all fans running, and both additional PSU cables). So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the sky high VCCSA/VCCIO are making it more stable. I should probably slow things down in order to run more sensible VCCSA/VCCIO numbers though, right?

EDIT #2: Ran 7 hours in Ramtest without a problem at 1.25v VCCIO and 1.3v VCCSA (staying at 1.4v DDR), so I hope I'm good now. Only thing is, it can still get hot (45-47 C), particularly when gaming on high detail settings for long periods of time (hotter than during memory testing). That's with the air conditioning on at 72 F. I worry if it's a particularly hot day or the a/c is off, it'll be too hot for gaming.


----------



## robertr1

Finally got 1T stable. It was a timing rule that I wasn't calculating right. Once adjusted it worked right away. Pretty much maxed out on this board as it hits a 3600mhz wall. Mem tuning gave me major gains in VR performance which I happy about so totally worth it.


----------



## Dasboogieman

robertr1 said:


> Finally got 1T stable. It was a timing rule that I wasn't calculating right. Once adjusted it worked right away. Pretty much maxed out on this board as it hits a 3600mhz wall. Mem tuning gave me major gains in VR performance which I happy about so totally worth it.


Whoaaa, your RTLs are really funky. Have you tried tuning those?


----------



## Imprezzion

Dasboogieman said:


> Whoaaa, your RTLs are really funky. Have you tried tuning those?


Yeah RTL's are super high for that clock. I was more expecting something along the lines of 68-69 in Auto non-optimized and 63-65 on optimized lol.

I am still having issues getting tRDWR lower on 4220 CL17. They are stable at 19-21-18-20 but that is pretty high. I tried one of you guys's suggestion to raise tCWL to 14 and try that way, it seems to make it better but it still errors in HCI after about 80-200%. I tried 13-13-13-14 tCWL 16, 15-15-15-15 tCWL 14 and even 17-18-17-18 tCWL 14 but it just keeps generating errors after 80-200%. It's usually only 1 single error but still.

Wierd thing is, on 4020Mhz 16-17-17 I can run 15-15-15-15 just fine on tCWL 12...

Is it a big disadvantage to run tRDWR a bit higher (18 to 21) on tCWL 12 in terms of daily usage? In AIDA benches I can barely notice a difference except for tCWL 14 with 13-13-13-13 giving a slightly higher bandwidth bench (about 1GB more). Latency stays the same (39.5ms).


----------



## Falkentyne

robertr1 said:


> Finally got 1T stable. It was a timing rule that I wasn't calculating right. Once adjusted it worked right away. Pretty much maxed out on this board as it hits a 3600mhz wall. Mem tuning gave me major gains in VR performance which I happy about so totally worth it.


What timing rule?


----------



## robertr1

Falkentyne said:


> What timing rule?


tWRPDEN = TWR + 4 + tCWL

I was off by 1 which was stopping my rtl's from auto calibrating to 1T command rate.

On a sidenote, did you get a chance to read my post on reddit? about llc findings?


----------



## robertr1

Dasboogieman said:


> Whoaaa, your RTLs are really funky. Have you tried tuning those?


Have been running those. That's memtest 400% per thread stable.

It's also bf5 + dota + chrome tabs and youtube at the same time stable. 

The Pro board doesn't have offset option to tweak rtl's. In bios, I have "memory enhancement" set to normal. 

My bandwidth numbers seem fine also? If you guys have more details, happy to tweak further!


----------



## chibi

robertr1 said:


> tWRPDEN = TWR + 4 + tCWL
> 
> I was off by 1 which was stopping my rtl's from auto calibrating to 1T command rate.
> 
> On a sidenote, did you get a chance to read my post on reddit? about llc findings?



Leave tWR on Auto and adjust tWRPDEN down/up and tWR will make the correct timing changes once you restart. Once happy with tWRPDEN, then set tWR manually.


----------



## robertr1

chibi said:


> Leave tWR on Auto and adjust tWRPDEN down/up and tWR will make the correct timing changes once you restart. Once happy with tWRPDEN, then set tWR manually.


That's what i ended up doing. I misinterpreted the guide.


----------



## CptSpig

raad11 said:


> Btw, plugged in fans and just hit 2 hours Ramtest, temps haven't gone over 44 C / 42 C (one DIMM is 1-2 degrees cooler with the fans). VCCSA/VCCIO are still at 1.33v though.
> 
> ALSO. I didn't mention this earlier, but I did NOT disable Speedstep/Speedshift and C-States in the BIOS (system is usually running 24-7, wanted to save some power when I'm not there). Can this cause sporadic memory errors?
> 
> EDIT: 3 hours in Ramtest, same temps (with all fans running, and both additional PSU cables). So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the sky high VCCSA/VCCIO are making it more stable. I should probably slow things down in order to run more sensible VCCSA/VCCIO numbers though, right?
> 
> EDIT #2: Ran 7 hours in Ramtest without a problem at 1.25v VCCIO and 1.3v VCCSA (staying at 1.4v DDR), so I hope I'm good now. Only thing is, it can still get hot (45-47 C), particularly when gaming on high detail settings for long periods of time (hotter than during memory testing). That's with the air conditioning on at 72 F. I worry if it's a particularly hot day or the a/c is off, it'll be too hot for gaming.


Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
CPU C-states [Auto]
Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]

Your VCCIO and SA are a little high. Stability can be effected by voltages that are to high or to low. :worriedsm . Try lowering VCCIO/SA and raising Vdimm between 1.41v to 1.45v overclocking memory takes a lot of patience :thumb:


----------



## Falkentyne

robertr1 said:


> tWRPDEN = TWR + 4 + tCWL
> 
> I was off by 1 which was stopping my rtl's from auto calibrating to 1T command rate.
> 
> On a sidenote, did you get a chance to read my post on reddit? about llc findings?


When? Did you just write it? link?


----------



## robertr1

Falkentyne said:


> When? Did you just write it? link?


https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocki...ly_get_vcore_and_vdrop_is_it_safe_if/ew6ews1/

since then. I'm now stable at 1.3v in bios with llc high at 5.1 with HT off.

funny enough i plugged in the 2nd cpu power which made it stable. no clue why.


----------



## Falkentyne

robertr1 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocki...ly_get_vcore_and_vdrop_is_it_safe_if/ew6ews1/
> 
> since then. I'm now stable at 1.3v in bios with llc high at 5.1 with HT off.
> 
> funny enough i plugged in the 2nd cpu power which made it stable. no clue why.


Yes I saw that.
Plugging in the second CPU power cord keeps the 12v line higher since that's where the CPU gets its power.
And yes I already explained multiple times and in multiple posts that lower LLC + higher bios voltage always gives increased stability.
I even posted links, several times. With lower LLC (more vdroop), the vcore will dip less below the average load RMS voltage, at the cost of more vdroop.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...0-vrm-discussion-thread-412.html#post28022104


----------



## robertr1

Falkentyne said:


> Yes I saw that.
> Plugging in the second CPU power cord keeps the 12v line higher since that's where the CPU gets its power.
> And yes I already explained multiple times and in multiple posts that lower LLC + higher bios voltage always gives increased stability.
> I even posted links, several times. With lower LLC (more vdroop), the vcore will dip less below the average load RMS voltage, at the cost of more vdroop.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...0-vrm-discussion-thread-412.html#post28022104


Thank you for all your efforts in this and Elmor. 

In my testing, going below high seems to be counter productive as it seems to put me on the other side of the curve in terms of balancing voltage stability and vdroop. Did medium seem more stable for you than high?


----------



## pegadroid

I can complete Google stressapp 1 hour without error, but with HCI I get an error very quickly.

3200 14-14-14-34 2T 1.36. io 1.20 sa 1.20
i7 6700k 
asus z170 deluxe

with 14-15-15-34 2t and same voltage i can pass both HCI and Google stressapp.
What should I do?help
Do I have to ignore the results of hci, what are the effects of errors in everyday use?


----------



## raad11

CptSpig said:


> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
> CPU C-states [Auto]
> Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
> Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
> 
> Your VCCIO and SA are a little high. Stability can be effected by voltages that are to high or to low. :worriedsm . Try lowering VCCIO/SA and raising Vdimm between 1.41v to 1.45v overclocking memory takes a lot of patience :thumb:


That's what I was thinking to do, but I'm worried about DIMM temps. They're already pushing it, even with the tons of new airflow, during heavy gaming use. Errors I've noticed are sometimes possible between 47 C - 50 C, and almost guaranteed once it crosses 50 C. 

So during long hours of heavy gaming with an air conditioner set to 73 F, it will be around 44-46 C. In Ramtest or memory testing in general, it's 42-43 C after a few hours. We haven't had a heat wave yet this week but we had a few earlier in the summer. I don't want to be able to not use the computer at all when it's just hot, or the air conditioner is off or breaks, you know?

Maybe I should run the RAM at a slower speed? What kind of settings do you think it could pull at 3700 or 3866? Even with the same voltage, slower speed should equal cooler chips, no?


----------



## Falkentyne

robertr1 said:


> Thank you for all your efforts in this and Elmor.
> 
> In my testing, going below high seems to be counter productive as it seems to put me on the other side of the curve in terms of balancing voltage stability and vdroop. Did medium seem more stable for you than high?


Lower levels of LLC to increase stability only matter when you start pulling heavy amps loads. The higher the amp load, the greater the voltage swings (the dips are what crash you).

If you're testing FMA3 small FFT prime95, going from LLC=Turbo to LLC=High could let you reduce your VR VOUT by 25mv. If AVX/FMA3 is disabled, it's more like 15mv at best, since the current load is going to be lower. I think going from LLC High to LLC Medium is a lesser vdroop increase than going from Turbo to High (turbo=0.4 mOhms of vdroop and High is 0.8 mOhms. Medium is *NOT* 1.2 mOhms, because "Low" is 1.3 mOhms and Standard/Normal is 1.6 mOhms. So Medium is probably 1.0.

Yes you're right that going to very low LLC levels doesn't make sense when using *Fixed* voltages (like "LLC=Standard"). It's better to use "Auto" voltages and allow the "AC Loadline" to boost your voltage to the VRM, then let the high vdroop drop it down again.

It takes me WAY too long to explain how AC Loadline affects the CPU voltage request to the VRM. Check some of the old posts I wrote on the 9900K thread and a couple on the Gigabyte thread. You're probably best off testing it on your own. You can test it without drawbacks or even without changing your settings, by setting "DC Loadline" to 0.01 mOhms (1) in CPU VR Settings. DC Loadline affects the "CPU VID" reporting in the *exact* same, identical way that "VRM Loadline" (aka Loadline Calibration) affects VR VOUT. AC Loadline affects the VID itself (the voltage the CPU requests). DC loadline only affects what is REPORTED--not what is set.

So set DC Loadline to "1" in your BIOS and watch the CPU VID in HWinfo64, at idle and at load. The value you see here in the CPU VID, if DC Loadline is set to "1", is what AC Loadline would send to the VRM (if using Auto vcore), *BEFORE Vcore VDROOP IS APPLIED*. You can then experiment with different AC Loadline values between "1" and "160" (0.01 mOhms to 1.6 mOhms), and you will see the VRM Target voltage if you were using auto voltage (or DVID with a 0 offset). You will notice that VID will not exceed 1.519v. 

If you set DC Loadline (mOhms) equal to VRM loadline's mOhms, then VR VOUT will be within 5mv of CPU VID at idle and load. (remember AC Loadline is the CPU Power supply and DC Loadline is power measurements).

CPU (VRM Loadline) Vcore Loadline Calibration (8 cores)
Standard/Auto/Normal: 1.6 mOhms
Low: 1.3 mOhms
Medium: 1.0 mOHms
High: 0.8 mOhms
Turbo: 0.4 mOhms
Extreme: 0.2 mOhms (estimated)
Ultra Extreme: 0 mOhms


----------



## CptSpig

raad11 said:


> That's what I was thinking to do, but I'm worried about DIMM temps. They're already pushing it, even with the tons of new airflow, during heavy gaming use. Errors I've noticed are sometimes possible between 47 C - 50 C, and almost guaranteed once it crosses 50 C.
> 
> So during long hours of heavy gaming with an air conditioner set to 73 F, it will be around 44-46 C. In Ramtest or memory testing in general, it's 42-43 C after a few hours. We haven't had a heat wave yet this week but we had a few earlier in the summer. I don't want to be able to not use the computer at all when it's just hot, or the air conditioner is off or breaks, you know?
> 
> Maybe I should run the RAM at a slower speed? What kind of settings do you think it could pull at 3700 or 3866? Even with the same voltage, slower speed should equal cooler chips, no?


If you keep you A/C at 73f that's pretty cool. I have mine at 76f and that's cold. Take the cover off of your case and put a fan right on the CPU and memory for prolonged gaming events. :wheee:


----------



## raad11

robertr1 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocki...ly_get_vcore_and_vdrop_is_it_safe_if/ew6ews1/
> 
> since then. I'm now stable at 1.3v in bios with llc high at 5.1 with HT off.
> 
> funny enough i plugged in the 2nd cpu power which made it stable. no clue why.


Are people referring to the VR VOUT from IR35201 sensor or the other two (VCore in IT8792E or VCore in IT8688E)? (I have the Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390)

For example, I set my BIOS at VCore 1.28v. IT8688E shows VCore 1.284v steady (min/max/avg). IT8792E shows VCore 1.276v average (1.265v min, 1.276v max). But IR35201, which is what I've read is the one to use, shows VCore average 1.272v, min 1.240v and max 1.273v. It actually drops to and stays around 1.236-1.240v under load. The other sensors don't really show the voltage drooping like this one does.

That's way lower than 1.28v or what I'd expect is needed to run 5.0 GHz on all cores. The CPU still gets plenty hot. But then, temperatures not withstanding, doesn't that mean there's still plenty of voltage headroom to overclock higher? I have LLC set on Turbo, FWIW.

What kind of spike would I get if I set LLC to the highest (Ultra Extreme I think?) at 1.28v?


----------



## Falkentyne

raad11 said:


> Are people referring to the VR VOUT from IR35201 sensor or the other two (VCore in IT8792E or VCore in IT8688E)? (I have the Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390)
> 
> For example, I set my BIOS at VCore 1.28v. IT8688E shows VCore 1.284v steady (min/max/avg). IT8792E shows VCore 1.276v average (1.265v min, 1.276v max). But IR35201, which is what I've read is the one to use, shows VCore average 1.272v, min 1.240v and max 1.273v. It actually drops to and stays around 1.236-1.240v under load. The other sensors don't really show the voltage drooping like this one does.
> 
> That's way lower than 1.28v or what I'd expect is needed to run 5.0 GHz on all cores. The CPU still gets plenty hot. But then, temperatures not withstanding, doesn't that mean there's still plenty of voltage headroom to overclock higher? I have LLC set on Turbo, FWIW.
> 
> What kind of spike would I get if I set LLC to the highest (Ultra Extreme I think?) at 1.28v?


Can't help with specific questions like that. You need an oscilloscope if you want answers like that.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...load-voltage-main-1-watch-2.html#post27736104


----------



## Jpmboy

raad11 said:


> Are people referring to the VR VOUT from IR35201 sensor or the other two (VCore in IT8792E or VCore in IT8688E)? (I have the Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390)
> 
> For example, I set my BIOS at VCore 1.28v. IT8688E shows VCore 1.284v steady (min/max/avg). IT8792E shows VCore 1.276v average (1.265v min, 1.276v max). But IR35201, which is what I've read is the one to use, shows VCore average 1.272v, min 1.240v and max 1.273v. It actually drops to and stays around 1.236-1.240v under load. The other sensors don't really show the voltage drooping like this one does.
> 
> That's way lower than 1.28v or what I'd expect is needed to run 5.0 GHz on all cores. The CPU still gets plenty hot. But then, temperatures not withstanding, doesn't that mean there's still plenty of voltage headroom to overclock higher? I have LLC set on Turbo, FWIW.
> What kind of spike would I get if I set LLC to the highest (Ultra Extreme I think?) at 1.28v?


the differences between the idle state voltages at those sources is nominal. Droop is what you'd expect... remember, the vcore rail provides voltage , true, but also amperage (which actually does the work on the die) and there are several voltage step-downs on die. 

LLC at Ultra doe not cause a spike. At that setting you have asked the MB to add voltage under load to mitigate droop (not a good thing to do IMO). THe actual load-transition spikes occur at a time interval no regular DMM will pick up.


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> the differences between the idle state voltages at those sources is nominal. Droop is what you'd expect... remember, the vcore rail provides voltage , true, but also amperage (which actually does the work on the die) and there are several voltage step-downs on die.
> 
> LLC at Ultra doe not cause a spike. At that setting you have asked the MB to add voltage under load to mitigate droop (not a good thing to do IMO). THe actual load-transition spikes occur at a time interval no regular DMM will pick up.


This is true.
Ultra Extreme does not cause a RMS spike at all. It's a 0 mOhm vdroop (flat). But the transients will kill you. If you're pulling 150 amps, you're going to see swings of up to 200mv either way on an oscilloscope.

You can already see a 100 amp test by Elmor here (LLC8). I would hate to see what 200 amps would look like here.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...0-vrm-discussion-thread-413.html#post28022572


I'm guessing 200 amps would look like this golden picture:


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Funny tho, i start it using vdroop when i moved out of quad core cpus. Before i use to set vcore with the llc closes to the vcore i add manually.

So lets say i put 1.40mV my llc has to match my manual vcore with a lil variance upwards/above the 1.40mV on avx loads for example.

I started changing the way i overclock after 8700k now i prefer having vdroop on avx loads that ends lower than my set/desired voltage.

In my x299 rigs i started using adaptive bcuz of power hungry settings this cpus pull are ridiculously amounts of watts / amps.

I find out adaptive works the best on this platform including vdroop. Set a higher voltage and use a negative offset that ends in a low voltage on load.

Trick is to watch real amperage load and no voltage.

Like for example 8700k i will put him around 200w comfort zone avg on the heaviest loads. After that starts getting crazy.

The 9900k like 230-250w on the heaviest loads. It has more cores and intel are power hungry cpus.

Like x299 it just gets ridiculous you never will find out whats the top before you end in a cooling dilema lol.

I dont care about voltage no more the only thing i watch and care now is wattage/amps usage thats all i need to know cough thanks x299 cough lol.

You can have a 1.6mV with a vdroop all way down to 1.35mV on an avx loads 0 problems lol

Knowing th actual tdp is more helpful than fighting for a vcore xD. Your cpu tdp is king over your cooling/mobo vrms xD


----------



## Barefooter

zGunBLADEz said:


> Funny tho, i start it using vdroop when i moved out of quad core cpus. Before i use to set vcore with the llc closes to the vcore i add manually.
> 
> So lets say i put 1.40mV my llc has to match my manual vcore with a lil variance upwards/above the 1.40mV on avx loads for example.
> 
> I started changing the way i overclock after 8700k now i prefer having vdroop on avx loads that ends lower than my set/desired voltage.
> 
> In my x299 rigs i started using adaptive bcuz of power hungry settings this cpus pull are ridiculously amounts of watts / amps.
> 
> I find out adaptive works the best on this platform including vdroop. Set a higher voltage and use a negative offset that ends in a low voltage on load.
> 
> *Trick is to watch real amperage load and no voltage.*
> 
> Like for example 8700k i will put him around 200w comfort zone avg on the heaviest loads. After that starts getting crazy.
> 
> The 9900k like 230-250w on the heaviest loads. It has more cores and intel are power hungry cpus.
> 
> Like x299 it just gets ridiculous you never will find out whats the top before you end in a cooling dilema lol.
> 
> I dont care about voltage no more the only thing i watch and care now is wattage/amps usage thats all i need to know cough thanks x299 cough lol.
> 
> You can have a 1.6mV with a vdroop all way down to 1.35mV on an avx loads 0 problems lol
> 
> Knowing th actual tdp is more helpful than fighting for a vcore xD. Your cpu tdp is king over your cooling/mobo vrms xD


This is interesting. What are you using to monitor the amperage?

What are you using to test AVX loads?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Barefooter said:


> This is interesting. What are you using to monitor the amperage?
> 
> What are you using to test AVX loads?


i stop hammering cpus with unrealistic loads like P95 like jpmboy says a "power" virus.

I use rog bench as all around test...... betweeen non avx and avx loads switching between looping benchmark without open cl ticked and the stress test without gpus you have to manually untick them on lux.
I also started using blender like classroom to hit avx hard benchmark and play that over and over. it also helps to test the avx offset it goes up and down good for stability. Trying to hammer your cpu with p95 is a waste of time and effort. 

Test my ram with hci and ramtest hci test ram+cache so that takes care of the whole dilema.. HCI has to be golden in my book before testing cpu.. so i dont have to go back and re test ram again becuase the cpu needed more vcore for the ram speed.


@Jpmboy look at this baby dark XD


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> This is true.
> Ultra Extreme does not cause a RMS spike at all. It's a 0 mOhm vdroop (flat). But the transients will kill you. If you're pulling 150 amps, you're going to see swings of up to 200mv either way on an oscilloscope.
> 
> You can already see a 100 amp test by Elmor here (LLC8). I would hate to see what 200 amps would look like here.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...0-vrm-discussion-thread-413.html#post28022572
> 
> 
> I'm guessing 200 amps would look like this golden picture:


Elmor and Praz have posted the relative "flatness" of the ASUS VR system using various oscilloscopes. The only time droop (voltage under load that has drooped) can be problematic is during extreme benchmarks, causing the system to crash when the bench ends... there is a load transition over and under-shoot. For 24/7 overclocked gaming rigs (or any 24/7 rig) a healthy amount of vdroop is a good thing.


zGunBLADEz said:


> Funny tho, i start it using vdroop when i moved out of quad core cpus. Before i use to set vcore with the llc closes to the vcore i add manually.
> 
> So lets say i put 1.40mV my llc has to match my manual vcore with a lil variance upwards/above the 1.40mV on avx loads for example.
> 
> I started changing the way i overclock after 8700k now i prefer having vdroop on avx loads that ends lower than my set/desired voltage.
> 
> In my x299 rigs i started using adaptive bcuz of power hungry settings this cpus pull are ridiculously amounts of watts / amps.
> 
> I find out adaptive works the best on this platform including vdroop. Set a higher voltage and use a negative offset that ends in a low voltage on load.
> 
> Trick is to watch real amperage load and no voltage.
> 
> Like for example 8700k i will put him around 200w comfort zone avg on the heaviest loads. After that starts getting crazy.
> 
> The 9900k like 230-250w on the heaviest loads. It has more cores and intel are power hungry cpus.
> 
> Like x299 it just gets ridiculous you never will find out whats the top before you end in a cooling dilema lol.
> 
> *I dont care about voltage no more* the only thing i watch and care now is wattage/amps usage thats all i need to know cough thanks x299 cough lol.
> 
> You can have a 1.6mV with a vdroop all way down to 1.35mV on an avx loads 0 problems lol
> 
> Knowing th actual tdp is more helpful than fighting for a vcore xD. Your cpu tdp is king over your cooling/mobo vrms xD


Within reason - right? But true - current kills. And TDP is the indicator we have. 


Barefooter said:


> This is interesting. What are you using to monitor the amperage?
> 
> What are you using to test AVX loads?


 Unless you have access to a CLAMP METER, most any monitoring software actually calculates the amperage (from the voltage and watts).


----------



## zGunBLADEz

@Jpmboy of course within reason and vdroop in mind the tdp and the heat should tell you that in the end xD


----------



## Barefooter

zGunBLADEz said:


> i stop hammering cpus with unrealistic loads like P95 like jpmboy says a "power" virus.
> 
> I use rog bench as all around test...... betweeen non avx and avx loads switching between looping benchmark without open cl ticked and the stress test without gpus you have to manually untick them on lux.
> I also started using blender like classroom to hit avx hard benchmark and play that over and over. it also helps to test the avx offset it goes up and down good for stability. Trying to hammer your cpu with p95 is a waste of time and effort.
> 
> Test my ram with hci and ramtest hci test ram+cache so that takes care of the whole dilema.. HCI has to be golden in my book before testing cpu.. so i dont have to go back and re test ram again becuase the cpu needed more vcore for the ram speed.


Yeah I never use P95, been using RealBench, but the older version without the AVX, and ramtest. I'll try some blender runs as I haven't used that before.

Thanks :thumb:


----------



## Dasboogieman

Falkentyne said:


> Lower levels of LLC to increase stability only matter when you start pulling heavy amps loads. The higher the amp load, the greater the voltage swings (the dips are what crash you).
> 
> If you're testing FMA3 small FFT prime95, going from LLC=Turbo to LLC=High could let you reduce your VR VOUT by 25mv. If AVX/FMA3 is disabled, it's more like 15mv at best, since the current load is going to be lower. I think going from LLC High to LLC Medium is a lesser vdroop increase than going from Turbo to High (turbo=0.4 mOhms of vdroop and High is 0.8 mOhms. Medium is *NOT* 1.2 mOhms, because "Low" is 1.3 mOhms and Standard/Normal is 1.6 mOhms. So Medium is probably 1.0.
> 
> Yes you're right that going to very low LLC levels doesn't make sense when using *Fixed* voltages (like "LLC=Standard"). It's better to use "Auto" voltages and allow the "AC Loadline" to boost your voltage to the VRM, then let the high vdroop drop it down again.
> 
> It takes me WAY too long to explain how AC Loadline affects the CPU voltage request to the VRM. Check some of the old posts I wrote on the 9900K thread and a couple on the Gigabyte thread. You're probably best off testing it on your own. You can test it without drawbacks or even without changing your settings, by setting "DC Loadline" to 0.01 mOhms (1) in CPU VR Settings. DC Loadline affects the "CPU VID" reporting in the *exact* same, identical way that "VRM Loadline" (aka Loadline Calibration) affects VR VOUT. AC Loadline affects the VID itself (the voltage the CPU requests). DC loadline only affects what is REPORTED--not what is set.
> 
> So set DC Loadline to "1" in your BIOS and watch the CPU VID in HWinfo64, at idle and at load. The value you see here in the CPU VID, if DC Loadline is set to "1", is what AC Loadline would send to the VRM (if using Auto vcore), *BEFORE Vcore VDROOP IS APPLIED*. You can then experiment with different AC Loadline values between "1" and "160" (0.01 mOhms to 1.6 mOhms), and you will see the VRM Target voltage if you were using auto voltage (or DVID with a 0 offset). You will notice that VID will not exceed 1.519v.
> 
> If you set DC Loadline (mOhms) equal to VRM loadline's mOhms, then VR VOUT will be within 5mv of CPU VID at idle and load. (remember AC Loadline is the CPU Power supply and DC Loadline is power measurements).
> 
> CPU (VRM Loadline) Vcore Loadline Calibration (8 cores)
> Standard/Auto/Normal: 1.6 mOhms
> Low: 1.3 mOhms
> Medium: 1.0 mOHms
> High: 0.8 mOhms
> Turbo: 0.4 mOhms
> Extreme: 0.2 mOhms (estimated)
> Ultra Extreme: 0 mOhms


So theoretically speaking, would it be safer to crank the VRM switching speed to max, dial in a higher Vcore but remove LLC? Since current draw is what mostly causes the overshoots, higher idle Vcore shouldn't hurt.


----------



## robertr1

Falkentyne said:


> Lower levels of LLC to increase stability only matter when you start pulling heavy amps loads. The higher the amp load, the greater the voltage swings (the dips are what crash you).
> 
> If you're testing FMA3 small FFT prime95, going from LLC=Turbo to LLC=High could let you reduce your VR VOUT by 25mv. If AVX/FMA3 is disabled, it's more like 15mv at best, since the current load is going to be lower. I think going from LLC High to LLC Medium is a lesser vdroop increase than going from Turbo to High (turbo=0.4 mOhms of vdroop and High is 0.8 mOhms. Medium is *NOT* 1.2 mOhms, because "Low" is 1.3 mOhms and Standard/Normal is 1.6 mOhms. So Medium is probably 1.0.
> 
> Yes you're right that going to very low LLC levels doesn't make sense when using *Fixed* voltages (like "LLC=Standard"). It's better to use "Auto" voltages and allow the "AC Loadline" to boost your voltage to the VRM, then let the high vdroop drop it down again.
> 
> It takes me WAY too long to explain how AC Loadline affects the CPU voltage request to the VRM. Check some of the old posts I wrote on the 9900K thread and a couple on the Gigabyte thread. You're probably best off testing it on your own. You can test it without drawbacks or even without changing your settings, by setting "DC Loadline" to 0.01 mOhms (1) in CPU VR Settings. DC Loadline affects the "CPU VID" reporting in the *exact* same, identical way that "VRM Loadline" (aka Loadline Calibration) affects VR VOUT. AC Loadline affects the VID itself (the voltage the CPU requests). DC loadline only affects what is REPORTED--not what is set.
> 
> So set DC Loadline to "1" in your BIOS and watch the CPU VID in HWinfo64, at idle and at load. The value you see here in the CPU VID, if DC Loadline is set to "1", is what AC Loadline would send to the VRM (if using Auto vcore), *BEFORE Vcore VDROOP IS APPLIED*. You can then experiment with different AC Loadline values between "1" and "160" (0.01 mOhms to 1.6 mOhms), and you will see the VRM Target voltage if you were using auto voltage (or DVID with a 0 offset). You will notice that VID will not exceed 1.519v.
> 
> If you set DC Loadline (mOhms) equal to VRM loadline's mOhms, then VR VOUT will be within 5mv of CPU VID at idle and load. (remember AC Loadline is the CPU Power supply and DC Loadline is power measurements).
> 
> CPU (VRM Loadline) Vcore Loadline Calibration (8 cores)
> Standard/Auto/Normal: 1.6 mOhms
> Low: 1.3 mOhms
> Medium: 1.0 mOHms
> High: 0.8 mOhms
> Turbo: 0.4 mOhms
> Extreme: 0.2 mOhms (estimated)
> Ultra Extreme: 0 mOhms


Thank you for this and it makes good sense now. I think I found a happy balance now between performance and temps. If I get better cooling in the future, I'll revisit my strategy based on above and other posts. I'll need to experiment on above on how to find the vid. It shows up in hwinfo but seems to move around based on what I set at my vcore and loads, which makes sense.


----------



## Imprezzion

To chime in a bit. What I noticed on my MSI Z390 Ace with a 9900K is that LLC4, while having more droop is much more stable on a much lower VR VOut full load than for example LLC1 is.

There's a LOT of droop on LLC4, setpoint is 1.325v, idle VR VOut is 1.334v and full AVX 250w load is 1.224v. 
If I set LLC1 to load at 1.224v (setting 1.248v setpoint) the CPU is completely unstable and barely runs any test longer than 5 minutes. It needs at least 1.240v VR VOut to even do 30 min of Prime and also games crash all over the place.

Only downside to LLC4 is the fact that a medium load like games pull anywhere from 1.248 to 1.270v load when they don't need that high at all but overall the system is much more stable. Also, the MOSFET and VR Loop 1 / 2 temps are quite a lot lower on LLC4.

Should I just keep running on LLC4 or tweak a higher LLC to stability?

My RAM LLC is set to Auto and they are set at 1.55v giving idle 1.552v and full load1.536v.


----------



## robertr1

Imprezzion said:


> To chime in a bit. What I noticed on my MSI Z390 Ace with a 9900K is that LLC4, while having more droop is much more stable on a much lower VR VOut full load than for example LLC1 is.
> 
> There's a LOT of droop on LLC4, setpoint is 1.325v, idle VR VOut is 1.334v and full AVX 250w load is 1.224v.
> If I set LLC1 to load at 1.224v (setting 1.248v setpoint) the CPU is completely unstable and barely runs any test longer than 5 minutes. It needs at least 1.240v VR VOut to even do 30 min of Prime and also games crash all over the place.
> 
> Only downside to LLC4 is the fact that a medium load like games pull anywhere from 1.248 to 1.270v load when they don't need that high at all but overall the system is much more stable. Also, the MOSFET and VR Loop 1 / 2 temps are quite a lot lower on LLC4.
> 
> Should I just keep running on LLC4 or tweak a higher LLC to stability?
> 
> My RAM LLC is set to Auto and they are set at 1.55v giving idle 1.552v and full load1.536v.


Those are my findings also. GB boards have waaaay too many LLC options I feel. Auto/Standand/Low/Med/High/Turbo/Ext/Ultra Ext. I was running Turbo before as that was the general recommendation.

Then I wanted to see if I can get 5.1 stable but it wasn't happening. Which lead me to doing more reading and finding falk's post on Asus forums followed by Elmor's testing and such. Long story short, I was able to get 5.1 stable with a higher fixed vcore and lower llc which actually leads to a lower vr vout under load, lower temps and more stability. 

Going from high to medium brought the instability back so atleast for my setup, high seems to be the sweet spot.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Barefooter said:


> Yeah I never use P95, been using RealBench, but the older version without the AVX, and ramtest. I'll try some blender runs as I haven't used that before.
> 
> Thanks :thumb:


also theres a blender benchmark suite which will hammer cpu longer in my 7940 is about 30min
https://opendata.blender.org/
very good for sustained realistic loads with avx


----------



## ThrashZone

Barefooter said:


> Yeah I never use P95, been using RealBench, but the older version without the AVX, and ramtest. I'll try some blender runs as I haven't used that before.
> 
> Thanks :thumb:





zGunBLADEz said:


> also theres a blender benchmark suite which will hammer cpu longer in my 7940 is about 30min
> https://opendata.blender.org/
> very good for sustained realistic loads with avx


Hi,
Haven't run into that one Gun :thumb:

Blender demo files classroom the 15 minute beast or BMW a 5 minute redering file 
Both can be looped by using render animation and not render image 
https://www.blender.org/download/demo-files/

Just install blender point it to the demo files after extracting all on the demo files
BMW also has a gpu rendering file 
https://www.blender.org/


----------



## raad11

Is it possible for a CPU overclock to result in RAM-like crashes? So when my RAM was unstable, my display driver would disappear and the game would error out. My RAM is stable now (just did 6 hours in Ramtest), but I had one such crash again while trying to push my system to 5.1 GHz. It was mostly blue screening until this current voltage setting and now it hasn't after a few hours of gaming, but just that one unusual game crash. So is it safe to assume it's the CPU overclock?


----------



## Falkentyne

raad11 said:


> Is it possible for a CPU overclock to result in RAM-like crashes? So when my RAM was unstable, my display driver would disappear and the game would error out. My RAM is stable now (just did 6 hours in Ramtest), but I had one such crash again while trying to push my system to 5.1 GHz. It was mostly blue screening until this current voltage setting and now it hasn't after a few hours of gaming, but just that one unusual game crash. So is it safe to assume it's the CPU overclock?


Hyperthreaded cores crashing generate L0 errors if the error is corrected and "RAM Type BSOD's" if not corrected, making it look like it's unstable memory or IMC. I'm talking about SYSTEM SERVICE EXCEPTION, IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL, KMODE EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED, etc. L0 seems to be some sort of instruction register that has a small cache space, but is not a L1, L2 or L3 cache. I'm assuming this happens due to how the logical cores are handled and resources shared. Cores crashing if hyperthreading is disabled will always either crash the application, or generate clock watchdog timeout (0x101) or WHEA uncorrectable error (0x124), which more people are used to.

I have yet to see anyone get a CPU L0 error on a chip that doesn't have hyperthreading.


----------



## hazium233

I may be crashing the thread (my only Intel is an old Latitude that isn't overclocked), but this was where a lot of RAS discussion has taken place.

I have spent some time reading and what has become unclear to me is why RTP is included in the guideline RAS=RCD+CAS+RTP.

I do understand the minimum RAS=RCD+CAS+4, since 8bit burst should take 4 clocks, and even in BC4 it seems that the ram waits 2 more clocks anyway.

Previously a pdf was posted, JESD79-4, if you go to page 109 (4.24.3) it defines tRTP "...being the Internal Read Command to Precharge Command Delay." That is the delay between a Read command and a Precharge command. In the diagram below this text, it shows at clock T1 the Read command, with corresponding start to tRTP. Prechage command is at clock T7 (RTP=6). Both of these take place before the read burst, which starts at clock T12 (T1 + CL of 11). See attached screenshot 1 below.

Alternatively, the next attached diagram has been used in posts regarding RAS. But now when I look at it, since it is showing 3 reads on different columns of a single row, the RTP is shown as the delay between the last Read command (purple) and the the Precharge. It happens to look like it is starting with the first read burst, but isn't this coincidental? RTP in this case happened to be 4 clocks, which is the same as burst length so it sort of works out (actually in this RAS = RCD+CAS+6 for whatever reason).

From the 2010 article on anandtech, Page Hit, Page Miss, Page Empty section, it has the following diagram also showing tRTP taking place before the read burst.










Also has this quote: "During a Read with Auto-Precharge, the Read command will execute as normal except the active bank will begin precharging CAS-latency (CL) clock cycles before the end of the burst. This feature allows the precharge operation to be partially or completely hidden during periods of burst read cycles, dependent on CL. When tuning our systems we always seek to set tRTP such that tRTP + tRP equals CL + tBurst for exactly this reason."

Realize that article was about DDR3, but the Micron 8Gb DDR4 data sheet says something similar about Precharge being able to start before a Read is completed (but not a write). "The RAS lockout circuit feature allows the PRECHARGE operation to be partially or completely hidden during burst READ cycles when the auto precharge feature is engaged." Pg 144 pdf here


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Off all the timings i always find ras to cas the hardest of all of them to drop also maintain stability.. i always end loosing it 2-3 over cl to run less volts and tight other timings like trfc for example i can tight that 20-30 more with a loose ras to cas. No biggie in the bigger picture.

I have [email protected]/19/16/28/1T/285 1.42mV

Vs the same with 16/16/16/28/1T/320 @ 1.47mV


----------



## Imprezzion

So, would that mean that my current 4220Mhz 17-17-17-34-280-2T which needs 1.556v to be stable could run much tighter secondary and tertiary timings on like, 17-19-17? And lower voltage?

How much total latency and bandwidth loss will 19 RAS give over 17 and can lower secondary and tertiary compensate for that loss?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Imprezzion said:


> So, would that mean that my current 4220Mhz 17-17-17-34-280-2T which needs 1.556v to be stable could run much tighter secondary and tertiary timings on like, 17-19-17? And lower voltage?
> 
> How much total latency and bandwidth loss will 19 RAS give over 17 and can lower secondary and tertiary compensate for that loss?


You can try that for yourself just do a quick suicide aida mem bench so you can see difference between the timings.


----------



## Imprezzion

zGunBLADEz said:


> You can try that for yourself just do a quick suicide aida mem bench so you can see difference between the timings.


It makes literally no measurable difference however my RAM also doesn't get any more stable or require any less voltage on 17-19-19 compared to 17-17-17. 

What did help as 4220Mhz is quite on the edge for my RAM and especially for my memory controller is just going back down to 4020Mhz. Now 16-17-17-28-270-2T with pretty tight secondaries / tertiaries and even RTL/IO tuned only requires 1.50v vDIMM and not 1.55v meaning the RAM stays a LOT cooler hitting only 43c on the hottest DIM in stead of almost 50c and benches almost the same on 4020Mhz now with lower timings compared to 4220 on higher timings. Only cost me about 1GB/s bandwidth and a tiny amount of latency so far 40.2ns compared to 39.6ns. Not really worth the extra vDIMM, and especially VCCSA/IO.

This was just a quick and dirty setup with a pretty high tCWL to make sure tRDWR and tWRRD would train properly. Going back to BIOS now to see what other tweaks will train properly for at least a POST / boot to windows and see where it lands with a stability test. 

Ran for about 480-500% on 12000MB to verify stability and temps.

EDIT:

Well, tightened some stuff here and there (TWR, TCKE, TWRRD, TRDWR and such) and this is about the max they will do. Most timings when set 1 lower either won't train properly or won't POST at all. There's probably one or two timings i can find that can technically be tightened but this seems good to me. Saves me a LOT of heat and voltage compared to 4220 CL17 with way higher secondaries. RTL's still on Optimized setting on 21. They are pretty decent but i might try to tweak the Initial and Offset a bit lol.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> It makes literally no measurable difference however my RAM also doesn't get any more stable or require any less voltage on 17-19-19 compared to 17-17-17.
> 
> What did help as 4220Mhz is quite on the edge for my RAM and especially for my memory controller is just going back down to 4020Mhz. Now 16-17-17-28-270-2T with pretty tight secondaries / tertiaries and even RTL/IO tuned only requires 1.50v vDIMM and not 1.55v meaning the RAM stays a LOT cooler hitting only 43c on the hottest DIM in stead of almost 50c and benches almost the same on 4020Mhz now with lower timings compared to 4220 on higher timings. Only cost me about 1GB/s bandwidth and a tiny amount of latency so far 40.2ns compared to 39.6ns. Not really worth the extra vDIMM, and especially VCCSA/IO.
> 
> This was just a quick and dirty setup with a pretty high tCWL to make sure tRDWR and tWRRD would train properly. Going back to BIOS now to see what other tweaks will train properly for at least a POST / boot to windows and see where it lands with a stability test.
> 
> Ran for about 480-500% on 12000MB to verify stability and temps.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Well, tightened some stuff here and there (TWR, TCKE, TWRRD, TRDWR and such) and this is about the max they will do. Most timings when set 1 lower either won't train properly or won't POST at all. There's probably one or two timings i can find that can technically be tightened but this seems good to me. Saves me a LOT of heat and voltage compared to 4220 CL17 with way higher secondaries. RTL's still on Optimized setting on 21. They are pretty decent but i might try to tweak the Initial and Offset a bit lol.


 you might try raising tRAS from 28 until you see a loss in efficiency (aid memtest or SuperPi) and loss of stabilty (if any). 28 is the chipset min and the dependent timings are likely causing the 28 to be substituted (by bios and the IMC) in order to correct the timing error at 28. The CAS and RCD are already 31 not accounting for the delay needed between read and precharge commands.




__________
and to help with the tRAS question above:


----------



## Imprezzion

Jpmboy said:


> you might try raising tRAS from 28 until you see a loss in efficiency (aid memtest or SuperPi) and loss of stabilty (if any). 28 is the chipset min and the dependent timings are likely causing the 28 to be substituted (by bios and the IMC) in order to correct the timing error at 28. The CAS and RCD are already 31 not accounting for the delay needed between read and precharge commands.


I read somethnig about that before yeah from Raja and it made sense but didn't really think about it again lol.
Adjusted it to 35 (which is tCL+tRCD+tRTP-2 which is absolute minimum according to Raja's guide) and zero efficiency loss indeed. Benches exactly the same if not even a bit higher than 28.
Also played around with some more timings and manually set my RTL/IO. Initial could go lower but no movement in IOL Offset from 21. This board with RTL/IO Optimization enabled in the BIOS already picks pretty good settings automatically.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> use version 3.0.6 with the R5E-10.


Hi,
Can't find that version on any msi board 
Got a link or an upload somewhere ?


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Can't find that version on any msi board
> Got a link or an upload somewhere ?


You asked about this for the R5E-10, right? MSI? It's "AsRock Timing Configurator"


----------



## hazium233

Jpmboy said:


> you might try raising tRAS from 28 until you see a loss in efficiency (aid memtest or SuperPi) and loss of stabilty (if any). 28 is the chipset min and the dependent timings are likely causing the 28 to be substituted (by bios and the IMC) in order to correct the timing error at 28. The CAS and RCD are already 31 not accounting for the delay needed between read and precharge commands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________
> and to help with the tRAS question above:


Right, I attached the first pic. The second one doesn't have tRTP (or precharge) since it is "no page close."

I commented on the first earlier. What it seems to actually show is tRTP running four clocks after the third (purple) read command. It is after all a Read Command to Precharge Command delay.

In both the JEDEC and Micron sheets, it is stated that for a Read operation only, you can begin Precharge before the read is completed, as long as RAS is satisfied, and it doesn't interfere with the Read. Also assumes that it wasn't a Read with Auto Precharge command (in which case it is moot because it doesn't need the Precharge command at all).

What I was getting at, RTP being four clocks (same as burst length) makes it coincidental. RTP on other diagrams runs concurrent with CAS, which makes sense. Both of them start when a Read command is sent. CAS is the time from read command to the burst, but RTP is the time from read command to possible precharge command.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> You asked about this for the R5E-10, right? MSI? It's "AsRock Timing Configurator"


Hi,
Nope my x99 sabertooth the prior msi memory config version I had worked fine until 1903 was installed 
Thanks I'll try this one see what happens.


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Nope my x99 sabertooth the prior msi memory config version I had worked fine until 1903 was installed
> Thanks I'll try this one see what happens.


well at least it's working on one x99 gen board.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

its the same problem with my evga x299 micro2, asrock timing configurator doesnt work. i have to use asus memtweak to see timings well its not that bad after all i can change timings on the fly using it too XD


----------



## metalspider

got a couple of gskill f4-4266c19d-16gtza so 4x8gb sticks 4266mhz c19 at 1.4v but since i have a gigabyte z390 aorus pro motherboard im stuck mostly at 3866mhz even though i could sometimes get it to boot in 4133 or even 4266 but get tons of errors.
been doing lots of reading in this thread and other places too.
for now just trying with the safe sub timings from https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md#intel---lga1151

cpu oc'ed a while ago to 5ghz 1.325v back when i had 3200mhz corsair lpx ram installed.
also have a nh-d15 so airflow over ram is a bit of an issue so staying closer to 1.41v


my latest tunings at 3866 passing hci 400%


----------



## Imprezzion

My guess is your going to need quite a lot more VCCIO and VCCSA to run 4000+MHz.

Your on 1.225v SA and 1.20v IO if I have to go off of the HWInfo sensors. This is probably nowhere near enough for that CPU.

I have to be honest, the core temps on the CPU are also very very high for just running HCI Memtest. Might also be thermal instability in the CPU/IMC at this point as that much core voltage on a D15 is pretty impossible to cool properly.

Try it with CPU downclocked to 4.8 and cache / uncore 4.4 with a bit less core voltage (like, 1.25v or even 1.20v) and try to raise IO to 1.30v and SA to 1.35v. Then try to run 4266 again on stock timings or a little tighter like 18-19-19-38-400-2T on 1.40v. Just to see if IO/SA voltage is the problem.


----------



## metalspider

already tried higher vccio and vccsa and higher ddr voltages too,didnt seem to help much but also didnt want to lose my cpu oc,maybe ill try again later.from what i understood its a motherboard pcb limitation more than anything since i have the aorus pro and not an aorus master.
was surprised i was even able to boot winpe at 4133 or 4266.strangely i could never get 4000 to even post.
in bios i set vccio and vccsa to 1.2v and the drift in hwinfo is what i really get.ddr is set in bios to 1.41v


its also summer here so room temp is kinda hot since i have no air conditioning,while gaming im in the mid 60s on cpu most of the time.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Been using 4700C18 for the past week.


----------



## reflex75

My first memory OC and I like it 
It's so rewarding to find the sweet spot with our specific trio RAM/CPU/MB !
Especially compared to CPU and GPU OC which are straight forward.
See below my result.
What do you suggest to check stability?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

throwing this here for users looking for options on ram kits that are DR 32GB kits
Kit is gskill 3600 CL17 B-DIE


----------



## Dasboogieman

reflex75 said:


> My first memory OC and I like it
> It's so rewarding to find the sweet spot with our specific trio RAM/CPU/MB !
> Especially compared to CPU and GPU OC which are straight forward.
> See below my result.
> What do you suggest to check stability?


Very nice! 

I like to use Memtest 86+ (the Passmark one) to do a quick stability test prior to booting to Windows 10 when adjusting timings to avoid the worst of the potential OS corruption. Usually, if you can get through 1 pass minus the Fade and Hammertest you are pretty safe to boot. I am paranoid so I wait for 4 passes before booting. Alternatively, 30 min- 1hr of GSAT also achieves a similar check.

If you are messing with tRFC + tREFI, you may want to use extended passes of the Memtest Fade test, it won't show the worst case scenario of bit rot (i.e. when the DRAM is warm) but it does at least tell you if your settings are too aggressive.

Then I use a combo of HCImemtest 1000% + Karhu's 20000% as the benchmark for 24/7 stability. You definitely want to see if your RAM is still stable once the IMC + DRAM module heat has built up a fair degree. 

Folk that only aim for bench stability will have different criteria.


----------



## ViTosS

I definitely think I'm limited by my motherboard, I tested 9900kf on the same Asus Maximus X Hero Z370 and couldn't pass 4000Mhz+ no matter timings, voltages I set, same memory OC that I have now in my old 8700k, thought the 9900k IMC would help but didn't happen, I think an Z390 Apex mobo would help or my kit is really limited to 4000Mhz.


----------



## raad11

Dasboogieman said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I like to use Memtest 86+ (the Passmark one) to do a quick stability test prior to booting to Windows 10 when adjusting timings to avoid the worst of the potential OS corruption. Usually, if you can get through 1 pass minus the Fade and Hammertest you are pretty safe to boot. I am paranoid so I wait for 4 passes before booting. Alternatively, 30 min- 1hr of GSAT also achieves a similar check.
> 
> If you are messing with tRFC + tREFI, you may want to use extended passes of the Memtest Fade test, it won't show the worst case scenario of bit rot (i.e. when the DRAM is warm) but it does at least tell you if your settings are too aggressive.
> 
> Then I use a combo of HCImemtest 1000% + Karhu's 20000% as the benchmark for 24/7 stability. You definitely want to see if your RAM is still stable once the IMC + DRAM module heat has built up a fair degree.
> 
> Folk that only aim for bench stability will have different criteria.


20,000% in RAMTest is approx. how long for 16GB? I forgot how long I ran mine except in terms of time (7-9 hours a few times).


----------



## metalspider

to do initial ram stability testing ive been booting a winpe on usb by sergei strelec then running hci memtest,for me it seems to find errors a lot faster then memtest86.
after destroying my normal windows install a couple of times already i also made sure to make backups with an imaging program from the same boot usb before i try again to get more mhz on my ram.

already reset cmos and played around with vccsa,vccio,ddr voltage etc to try and get 4133 stable but i always get errors in hci memtest even though somehow it can boot into the usb winpe.drives me nuts to be so close yet so far.


----------



## raad11

So I managed to cool down my RAM by flipping the exhaust fan on the top of the case (Corsair 200R) to point inward as an intake fan right on top of the RAM. Temps dropped several degrees under load. But now this throws my entire system for a loop in terms of air flow. Temps are fine for CPU/RAM/GPU. GPU might have gotten < 5 C hotter, but it's not enough to make a difference since the stock fan profile was usually under 50% anyway and it can just speed up to compensate.

But I do feel hot air radiating out of the side vents now. Besides putting a beefier exhaust fan, should I put a side vent exhaust fan? I'm reluctant because then that would point at my face, lol. Or is it fine and just let the hot air dissipate out of the porous case (lots of openings) due to positive pressure? 

I have 3 intake fans, the Noctua 2.61 static pressure, ~50 CFM on top of RAM, a Cougar 70 CFM in the 5.25" drive bays, and the original Corsair which is probably ~30-35 CFM.... and one exhaust fan, the dinky Corsair one that's ~30-35 CFM on the rear top of the case (gonna replace it with a 60-64 CFM Noctua).


----------



## metalspider

you want to have more intakes then exhust but dont rely too much on positive air pressure alone to let heat out of the side vents etc.

looking at your case i dont know how much the front intake can really pull in. so id say add side panel intakes and keep the top and rear as exhaust only.
also maybe get some air filters to put on the intakes since i doubt you got any with that case.


----------



## reflex75

Dasboogieman said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I like to use Memtest 86+ (the Passmark one) to do a quick stability test prior to booting to Windows 10 when adjusting timings to avoid the worst of the potential OS corruption. Usually, if you can get through 1 pass minus the Fade and Hammertest you are pretty safe to boot. I am paranoid so I wait for 4 passes before booting. Alternatively, 30 min- 1hr of GSAT also achieves a similar check.
> 
> If you are messing with tRFC + tREFI, you may want to use extended passes of the Memtest Fade test, it won't show the worst case scenario of bit rot (i.e. when the DRAM is warm) but it does at least tell you if your settings are too aggressive.
> 
> Then I use a combo of HCImemtest 1000% + Karhu's 20000% as the benchmark for 24/7 stability. You definitely want to see if your RAM is still stable once the IMC + DRAM module heat has built up a fair degree.
> 
> Folk that only aim for bench stability will have different criteria.


Thank you for your advices, very appreciate 
What about Prime 95 with custom settings to stress the RAM?


----------



## Dasboogieman

reflex75 said:


> Thank you for your advices, very appreciate
> What about Prime 95 with custom settings to stress the RAM?


I personally haven't tried that method so I cannot vouch personally for it's accuracy. Folk who are seeking benchmark stability find it perfectly acceptable but I don't think it is robust enough for 24/7 stability.



raad11 said:


> 20,000% in RAMTest is approx. how long for 16GB? I forgot how long I ran mine except in terms of time (7-9 hours a few times).


Mine can sustain 160MB/s, it takes me roughly 10-11hrs for 20000% on 32gb. For 16gb, it's likely around 5-6hrs.


----------



## moorhen2

Just ordered a set of these, be delivered tomorrow, interesting to see what they can do.

Team Group Xtreem " Edition" 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-36000C18 4500MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (Samsung B-Die IC's)


----------



## robertr1

moorhen2 said:


> Just ordered a set of these, be delivered tomorrow, interesting to see what they can do.
> 
> Team Group Xtreem " Edition" 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-36000C18 4500MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (Samsung B-Die IC's)


Nice!!! Can't wait to see your results. I have the more pedestrian version 4000CL18. I like the kits. Just with they had temp sensors on them.


----------



## mackanz

Looking for some hints to tighten seconds and/or thirds. Been running this for a few days now and looks completely stable. Z390-F refuses above 4000 on memory though, which is a bummer.


----------



## moorhen2

robertr1 said:


> Nice!!! Can't wait to see your results. I have the more pedestrian version 4000CL18. I like the kits. Just with they had temp sensors on them.


I have a kit of 4000mhz CL18 as well, running at 4500mhz fully stable. 8Pack ones.


----------



## metalspider

mackanz said:


> Looking for some hints to tighten seconds and/or thirds. Been running this for a few days now and looks completely stable. Z390-F refuses above 4000 on memory though, which is a bummer.


 lookup what dram chips you have with taiphoon burner and try the ram profile for them since you have an asus motherboard.
some of your secondary etc look ok some not.ive been following this guide mostly https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md#intel---lga1151
most secondary timings etc seem to not change at all with frequency so just start with the safe suggested timings and go from there.

theres also the [email protected] guide from a post in this thread https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-784.html#post27784556


----------



## robertr1

moorhen2 said:


> I have a kit of 4000mhz CL18 as well, running at 4500mhz fully stable. 8Pack ones.


I'm mobo limited  z390 auros pro with a 3600mhz wall with 2 sticks. Did the best I could with that mobo. Geekbench 3 tops out at 7500 only. 

Keeping an eye on Apex XI for now.


----------



## metalspider

so i read you can tweak ddrvpp voltage to stabilize some ram overclocks and it seemed to reduce errors for me but i cant seem to find what are the safe limits of bumping up this voltage.
in this thread i saw kedarwolf made a very small 0.040v bump but somewhere else i even saw a lot more then that and i just cant tell how far can i go?


so what are safe ranges for ddrvpp? the default is 2.5v






edit:best answer i could find so far is 2.3v-2.75v but in the end the poster decided it didnt really help.
https://translate.google.com/transl...-dram-voltage-sujet_1035544_1.htm&prev=search


----------



## metalspider

moved fan off the ram and mounted nh-d15 fans in pull pull config.moved top exhust fan to be over dimms area pulling air out.tested again at 4133mhz and 1.5vdimm and things were looking good till 9.5% hci memtest when errors finally showed up.
also moved dimms around according to serial number since i bought them off ebay open box but that doesnt seem to have changed anything.


dimm temps were lower then before but still got to 45c or more.
lowered vdimm to 1.42v resulted in many more errors right away so i guess it really is a matter of not enough vdimm and summer heat.


back to 3866mhz ran a quick test till 40% hci to make sure nothing has changed since i played with dimm order and so far so good.
didnt expect to really get 4266mzh out of these but one can always hope.
learned a lot this past week and got a huge increase in read/write speeds from following guides on subtimings so ill be happy with that.


----------



## raad11

metalspider said:


> lookup what dram chips you have with taiphoon burner and try the ram profile for them since you have an asus motherboard.
> some of your secondary etc look ok some not.ive been following this guide mostly https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md#intel---lga1151
> most secondary timings etc seem to not change at all with frequency so just start with the safe suggested timings and go from there.
> 
> theres also the [email protected] guide from a post in this thread https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-784.html#post27784556


What do you mean by the ram profile? Is that in the program?


----------



## mackanz

metalspider said:


> lookup what dram chips you have with taiphoon burner and try the ram profile for them since you have an asus motherboard.
> some of your secondary etc look ok some not.ive been following this guide mostly https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md#intel---lga1151
> most secondary timings etc seem to not change at all with frequency so just start with the safe suggested timings and go from there.
> 
> theres also the [email protected] guide from a post in this thread https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-784.html#post27784556


Thank you. I have verified it is Samsung B die.


----------



## metalspider

raad11 said:


> What do you mean by the ram profile? Is that in the program?


in asus bioses you have some suggested presets for ram according to dram chip and pcb layout etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/74vkwm/the_minute_you_realize_stilts_memory_tweaks_have/


----------



## raad11

metalspider said:


> in asus bioses you have some suggested presets for ram according to dram chip and pcb layout etc.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/74vkwm/the_minute_you_realize_stilts_memory_tweaks_have/


Damn, I have gigabyte. I miss Asus. I don't suppose someone's put all these timings online somewhere


----------



## KedarWolf

In another thread someone noticed my +3.3v, +12v and +5v were a bit low. I replugged in my power cables to the motherboard and PSU, problem fixed, now I'm stable at better timings.

KedarWolf - i9 9900K @5.0/4.7 - 4.xGB G.Skill Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4200MHz C17-17-17-38-2T 1.45v - VCCIO 1.23v - SA 1.25v - DDR VTT .725v - Stressapptest 1 Hour


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> In another thread someone noticed my +3.3v, +12v and +5v were a bit low. I replugged in my power cables to the motherboard and PSU, problem fixed, now I'm stable at better timings.
> 
> KedarWolf - i9 9900K @5.0/4.7 - 4.xGB G.Skill Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4200MHz C17-17-17-38-2T 1.45v - VCCIO 1.23v - SA 1.25v - DDR VTT .725v - Stressapptest 1 Hour


Wow, that's pretty weird. Do you think the contact pin surfaces got oxidized somehow or... what?


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> In another thread someone noticed my +3.3v, +12v and +5v were a bit low. I replugged in my power cables to the motherboard and PSU, problem fixed, now I'm stable at better timings.
> 
> KedarWolf - i9 9900K @5.0/4.7 - 4.xGB G.Skill Trident Z CL16 3600 @ 4200MHz C17-17-17-38-2T 1.45v - VCCIO 1.23v - SA 1.25v - DDR VTT .725v - Stressapptest 1 Hour


I had an issue with intermittent faults because of a modular GPU cable not connecting properly but I wouldn't have suspected it with the lower draw stuff. Interesting


----------



## moorhen2

Well I must say I am not that impressed with my latest ram kit, Team Group Xtreem (8pack edition)) 4500 Cl18 1.45v, they need close to max IO and SA v's that I am prepared to use to be stable at stock clocks, probably at there limit at 4500mhz already, can do 4533mhz HCI stable, IO 1.29375V, SA 1.350V, anything over this just needs more and more IO and SA, which I am not prepared to do.


----------



## swddeluxx

@ *moorhen2*

4533mhz Timings and Settings?


----------



## Marcel1ne

Tipical GSkill dual rank memory on apex xi (F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK)
stable 4100cl16 1.48v, but post is hard
can't post 4133+ mhz


----------



## Dasa

Swapped my [email protected] for a [email protected]
Max RAM frequency dropped from 4000 benchable and 3733-3866 stable with the 6700k to 3866 not posting on most tries and 3733 borderline stable with the 7700k regardless of core OC.
But I am able to run much tighter timings with the 7700K.

Set to 1.47 Vdimm in BIOS but it seems to be running ~1.45v.
CPU 5GHz, Cache max multi 53, AVX offset 1.
SA\IO are set to 1.15v but the MB tends to report a bit higher.

I was thinking there may be some room left to tweak further when my PC just reset itself while typing this... Maybe tREFI is a bit high.


----------



## moorhen2

swddeluxx said:


> @ *moorhen2*
> 
> 4533mhz Timings and Settings?


Stock timings and settings. This is with my 4000mhz Team Group Extreem kit, not my 4500mhz kit, which needs 1.3v IO and 1.35v SA to run at stock timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Dasa said:


> Swapped my [email protected] for a [email protected]
> Max RAM frequency dropped from 4000 benchable and 3733-3866 stable with the 6700k to 3866 not posting on most tries and 3733 borderline stable with the 7700k regardless of core OC.
> But I am able to run much tighter timings with the 7700K.
> 
> Set to 1.47 Vdimm in BIOS but it seems to be running ~1.45v.
> CPU 5GHz, Cache max multi 53, AVX offset 1.
> SA\IO are set to 1.15v but the MB tends to report a bit higher.
> 
> I was thinking there may be some room left to tweak further when my PC just reset itself while typing this... Maybe tREFI is a bit high.


lower cache multiplier and you'll likely see a better ram frequency ceiling.


----------



## Dasa

Jpmboy said:


> lower cache multiplier and you'll likely see a better ram frequency ceiling.


That RAM frequency ceiling was with the cache\core at stock and 1.35vcore.
Increasing the cache speed had no impact on stability as far as I could tell.
Not sure if it is actually running 5300 or if it tops out at whatever the core is at.

Wonder what will happen when I put the other 2x8GB back in it didn't affect the 6700K much.


----------



## Jpmboy

Dasa said:


> That RAM frequency ceiling was with the cache\core at stock and 1.35vcore.
> Increasing the cache speed had no impact on stability as far as I could tell.
> Not sure if it is actually running 5300 or if it tops out at whatever the core is at.
> 
> Wonder what will happen when I put the other 2x8GB back in it didn't affect the 6700K much.


Cache frequency will impact the ram frequency ceiling, which if I read your post correctly was what it was doing? 5.3 is high for cache and probably not helping is any way except for a few cache-sensitive benchmarks like R15/R20, GB3, GB4 etc. Drop it to 5.0 (same as core) and see if the ram wil lpost at 4000 or higher. I have my 8700K at 5.2, cache 4.8 with the ram at 4500c16 (3600c15 sticks, or 3200c14 sticks) stable to GSAT, Ramtest and continuous Boinc compute work (24/7) for months now. ran my 7700k on the same board at 5.5/4.8/4000c16 until it went LN2...


----------



## Dasa

Jpmboy said:


> Cache frequency will impact the ram frequency ceiling, which if I read your post correctly was what it was doing? 5.3


I only set the CPU\cache OC after I was done with the RAM, while finding the max stable RAM OC I had reduced the CPU and the cache to stock clocks but left vcore at 1.35v.
Sorry that wasn't clear.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## moorhen2

Got my Team Group Extreem 4500mhz (8Pack Edition) reasonably stable at 4533mhz, anything over this frequency just needs more and more IO and SA voltages, which I am not prepared to use, a mild overclock I know, but I think this kit is obviously at or near its maximum frequency out of the box.

Below 18-20-20-38 2T


----------



## chibi

You guys have suggestions for a higher bin, B-Die A2 PCB kit?
2x 8GB preferably.


----------



## moorhen2

Same voltages but 4533mhz at 18-19-19-38 2T.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

Dasa said:


> I only set the CPU\cache OC after I was done with the RAM, while finding the max stable RAM OC I had reduced the CPU and the cache to stock clocks but left vcore at 1.35v.
> Sorry that wasn't clear.


 yeah, that could leave the system subject to training issues. Obviously the cache, IMC and IO work very closely with RAM... this is why a ram OC is also an OC on the IMC/IO and cache registers  .
But if it's working the way you want... then Enjoy!


----------



## Dasa

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, that could leave the system subject to training issues. Obviously the cache, IMC and IO work very closely with RAM... this is why a ram OC is also an OC on the IMC/IO and cache registers  .
> But if it's working the way you want... then Enjoy!


Well more frequency would be nice but from my tinkering so far it seems the only chance of that may be with a older BIOS maybe one where the 6700K didn't do so well.
Unless you are saying that the IMC may be more stable with the CPU\Cache running somewhere between stock clocks and the max OC?


----------



## Micec

i am on Asrock Z370 Taichi with Bios 4.00 and 4x16 GB Trident Z 3200 CL14 (B-Die) RAM Modules. I only want XMP running normal, but it is weird instable. 4-5 days without a problem, today closing programs ...
CPU is a 8700k with 5ghz / 4.7 cache and 1.365v and Ram increase voltage to 1.365v in the moment. VCCIO at (Auto) 1.20v and VCCSA at (Auto) 1.25v.
Ran before 2x8 GB 3200-CL14 at 4000mhz 17-17-17-38 at standard 1.35v without problem. Go on 4x8gb 3200 CL14 to XMP standard, all ok. The go to 2x16 3200 CL14 to XMP standard all ok, then 4x16gb 3200 CL14 to XMP standard = not stable.
Have played a week new Wolfenstein without problem. But on some days it begins to being instable. Windows 10 activation lost, some menu not clickable...! If i try to change some ram parameters in bios, it wont boot. Only with full auto!

Question:
What should i do for stability. Raise Ram Voltage more? Think VCCIO and VCCSA are ok on 1.20v and 1.25v ! Test with more has no effect. Why i cannot change single parameters (no Boot)?


----------



## levifig

Micec said:


> i am on Asrock Z370 Taichi with Bios 4.00 and 4x16 GB Trident Z 3200 CL14 (B-Die) RAM Modules. I only want XMP running normal, but it is weird instable. 4-5 days without a problem, today closing programs ...
> CPU is a 8700k with 5ghz / 4.7 cache and 1.365v and Ram increase voltage to 1.365v in the moment. VCCIO at (Auto) 1.20v and VCCSA at (Auto) 1.25v.
> Ran before 2x8 GB 3200-CL14 at 4000mhz 17-17-17-38 at standard 1.35v without problem. Go on 4x8gb 3200 CL14 to XMP standard, all ok. The go to 2x16 3200 CL14 to XMP standard all ok, then 4x16gb 3200 CL14 to XMP standard = not stable.
> Have played a week new Wolfenstein without problem. But on some days it begins to being instable. Windows 10 activation lost, some menu not clickable...! If i try to change some ram parameters in bios, it wont boot. Only with full auto!
> 
> Question:
> What should i do for stability. Raise Ram Voltage more? Think VCCIO and VCCSA are ok on 1.20v and 1.25v ! Test with more has no effect. Why i cannot change single parameters (no Boot)?


I have a kit of TridentZ RGB 4x16GB 3200CL14 and I can even do 3800CL14 (though it needs ~1.55V), no problem. ASUS Rampage VI Apex, i9-9940X, similar VCCIO/VCCSA voltages. So, you either have 1 or more bad chips on the RAM, or your CPU's IMC is not having any of it…


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Robostyle

What are possible options of improving RAM perfomance on laptops? Lets say, a machine with 6700hq+hm170 onboard?


----------



## BLUuuE

Robostyle said:


> What are possible options of improving RAM perfomance on laptops? Lets say, a machine with 6700hq+hm170 onboard?


You can try writing to the SPD using Thaiphoon.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...odify-flash-spd-xmp-profiles-ddr4-eeprom.html


----------



## metalspider

tightened my sub timings at 3866mhz since i cant get higher speeds stable.


----------



## Robostyle

BLUuuE said:


> You can try writing to the SPD using Thaiphoon.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...odify-flash-spd-xmp-profiles-ddr4-eeprom.html


Yeah, found that too. Only thing that bothers me - some say you can brick sticks easily, thats due to doubtful app stability, or you can simply miss the ram potential, tightening timings too much?


----------



## Dasboogieman

Robostyle said:


> Yeah, found that too. Only thing that bothers me - some say you can brick sticks easily, thats due to doubtful app stability, or you can simply miss the ram potential, tightening timings too much?


back when I used it years ago to flash my Samsung 30nm green SODIMMs. You need a couple of things to make this work. You need the paid version of Thaiphoon plus the DRAM module and BIOS needs to support SPD writing (DDR3 was more lenient on this). When I did it, you flash one stick at a time, you then reboot in single channel with that stick to verify, if everything is stable, then flash the 2nd stick. If you have a 3rd spare stick, that makes the process easier. Once both are flashed, install dual channel and stability test.


----------



## KedarWolf

Can someone with this exact kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK make a Thaiphoon Burner SPD dump, the free version will work, and upload it as a .zip file here?

I lost my dump when I deleted my Thaiphoon Burner folder so I could upgrade it to the Pro version. 

@Jpmboy Do you own this kit?


----------



## bl4ckdot

KedarWolf said:


> Can someone with this exact kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK make a Thaiphoon Burner SPD dump, the free version will work, and upload it as a .zip file here?
> 
> I lost my dump when I deleted my Thaiphoon Burner folder so I could upgrade it to the Pro version.
> 
> @Jpmboy Do you own this kit?


I have this kit. I'll do that when I get back home this evening


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> Can someone with this exact kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK make a Thaiphoon Burner SPD dump, the free version will work, and upload it as a .zip file here?
> 
> I lost my dump when I deleted my Thaiphoon Burner folder so I could upgrade it to the Pro version.
> 
> @Jpmboy Do you own this kit?


I don't want to sound like a complete noob or anything but what is the main purpose of flashing the spd?
Cheers


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> I don't want to sound like a complete noob or anything but what is the main purpose of flashing the spd?
> Cheers


I'm experimenting with having most of the main timings I use set already.

Like right now when I do a clean install of Windows my timings are already at 4200MHz 17-17-17-38 2T 1.46v with a few of the other timings already configured. I only need to change Auto to Manual, then manually set the ones I want not already set to what I want.

Edit: On Gigabyte Z390 boards you need a BIOS mod to flash the memory. I have a Master F10b BIOS modded someone helped me with that has the latest microcode etc.

And the owner of Thaiphoon Burner when I enquired about it on the thread he runs here, gave me a free upgrade when I bought the Personal Edition to the Pro Edition.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Cool made your own XMP profile :thumb:


----------



## ThrashZone

KedarWolf said:


> Can someone with this exact kit F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK make a Thaiphoon Burner SPD dump, the free version will work, and upload it as a .zip file here?
> 
> I lost my dump when I deleted my Thaiphoon Burner folder so I could upgrade it to the Pro version.
> 
> @Jpmboy Do you own this kit?


Hi,
I believe @CptSpig has it I do too but not sure what all you want speed wise....
I have a tweaked 3600 profile just manual setting default timings didn't do very well so I had to adjust with CptSpig's help
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268304&d=1557064141

Just link to the version you want to run might need basic instructions too :doh:


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## bl4ckdot

@KedarWolf You will find the SPD dump of the F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK kit attached


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> Edit: On Gigabyte Z390 boards you need a BIOS mod to flash the memory. I have a Master F10b BIOS modded someone helped me with that has the latest microcode etc.


What is the best stock bios for overclocking the memory in your opinion, or is it best to use a modded one?
A friend of mine has the Z390 Master and he doesn't get very good ram overclocks. I think he has F8.
Cheers


----------



## KedarWolf

bl4ckdot said:


> @KedarWolf You will find the SPD dump of the F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK kit attached


ty!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> What is the best stock bios for overclocking the memory in your opinion, or is it best to use a modded one?
> A friend of mine has the Z390 Master and he doesn't get very good ram overclocks. I think he has F8.
> Cheers


I have really great results with a microcode, RST firmware etc. modded F10B. Let me know if you want it, but you need to flash with efiflash as it's modded, I can link you BIOS and how-to. :h34r-smi

I get 4x8GB 4200 17-17-17-38 2T stress-tested stable with it. 

Even my residuals in LinX are perfect.

Edit: I'll PM it to you if you want, a bit off-topic.


----------



## ssateneth

Ssateneth--i7 8700K @5.2/5.0---64GB (2x32GB) Samsung M-Die---3600Mhz-C15-22-22-33-1T----1.54v---SA 1.20v---HCI 500% + 16 hours Stressapptest

After about 2 weeks working on these new 16GBit Samsung M-Die modules (32GB DIMM's), I got some insight to some timing interactions as well as M-Die behavior. Here's my experience on an Asrock Z370 Taichi.

M-Die...

...seems to be able to do 3600MT/s easily enough (confirmed by buildzoid)
...can do 1T command rate. It took a while to find out I could suddenly magically do 1T instead of 2T. Not sure what timing was causing the issue, but yeah, it's possible to do.
...'s CAS latency scales with voltage. CAS15 @ 3600MT/s is doable at 1.54 volts set in BIOS (about 1.57 volts at sensor). CAS16 works fine at 1.45 volts, possibly lower. I haven't checked yet.
... requires a higher tRCD and/or tRP compared to 8GBit dies (22 is the lowest I can go @ 3600MT/s)
... sees minor bandwidth gains from lowering tRAS below the usual tRAS rules (Consistently +80-100MB/sec in GSAT going from 15-22-22-38 to 15-22-22-33)

...'s tWR may be overridden if the timing is set in BIOS too low. All timings of 10 or below shows as 11 in timing configurator.
...'s tRFC needs a significantly higher value than 8GBit IC's. I require 560tRFC @ 3600MT/s compared to ~280tRFC @ 4266 for 8GBit B-die

Also some general rules/interactions I learned.

Always test memory bandwidth after a change. A seemingly more favorable timing may actually be slower, while a timing that should run slower may actually run faster in practice.
CAS Write Latency has an interaction with tRDWR_** 3rd timings. If you want a lower CAS Write Latency, you MUST increase all tRDWR_** timings by an equivalent amount.
CAS Latency also has an interaction with tRDWR_** 3rd timings, but in the opposite direction. If you run a lower CAS latency, you may also run lower tRDWR_** timings.
tWRRD_DR timing MUST be tested for bandwidth after changing. There is a sweet spot that hugely impacts copy bandwidth. Auto-negotiated timings may be too low and severely hampering bandwidth. Mine set to 4 on auto. 8 was the best timing here for me. This only affects dual-rank modules (16GB dimms with 8GBit IC's and 32GB dimms with 16GBit IC's)
tWTR_L and tWTR_S may be left on auto, because tWRRD_SG and tWRRD_DG will directly override any timings you set for tWTR_L and tWTR_S. Both timings affect copy speeds a minor amount favorably if lowered.

Here is what I got so far. Will run for another 6 hours or so. 10 hour stable 500% HCI Memtest.


----------



## Kimir

You are pretty much asking why XMP exist. xD


----------



## ssateneth

Kimir said:


> You are pretty much asking why XMP exist. xD


No I'm not? XMP is not overclocking in my book. That's baby steps. Real RAM OC is about hand-tuning many more of the timings that would normally be set to "auto" because "auto" can be slow and inefficient, and many of the XMP programmed timings can be further refined. Talking about a 5-30% performance improvement in RAM bandwidth/latency just from better timings, along with pushing frequency. This new pass of this RAM kit at identical CPU settings and RAM frequency, just different RAM timings, was 25% faster at completing HCI memtest (500% in 10 hours vs 400% in 10 hours, that's massive) because many of the 2nd and 3rd timings were on auto still.

XMP is just a "set and forget" tweak that brings large performance gains from JEDEC timings, but are far from efficient.

I'm currently looking at CAS16 for this kit right now @ 1.41 volts (testing now), since some people might not like seeing 1.54 volts as "acceptable"


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## ssateneth

reachthesky said:


> Hey folks. Putting the finishing touches on my ram before putting it through the gauntlet AGAIN. I want to make sure these timings are as tight as possible. Also, are the numbers in the benchmark along the lines of what I should be expecting? One thing i'm concerned about is latency, I feel like my latency should be lower than it is since I went with 280 trfc, I was getting [email protected] trfc. How are some people getting sub-40ns latency @cl16/4000mhz? Also curious if 1.15v PCH voltage is safe for daily usage. Are the numbers from the benchmark optimal for manually tuned 4000? Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated.
> [email protected]@1.35v 1.15v IO/1.2v SA
> [email protected]@1.45vdimm/training, , 1.25v sa/io
> 9900k-5ghz core 4.8ghz cache
> 1.35v turbo llc, no power limits(only need 1.3v for 5.0/4.3 cache, 1.32v for 5.0/4.8 cache, need 1.35v with current ram settings)
> PCH- 1.15v(set 1.1v in bios because ram kept getting stuck during PCH initialization during ram training process when setting trfc to 280 from 360, xmp sets it at 1.054v when on auto)
> Also, When training ram, during the training stages, how do you know the difference between not enough dram training voltage, not enough system agent, not enough vcore and not enough PCH voltage? Are there specific error codes that are quick tells? Are there certain behaviors I should be looking for?
> Also, System Service Exception BSOD, Does this mean I need more IO, Sa, Dram or vcore(received this bsod while screwing around with 4200)?
> Also, When training gets stuck at PCI resource allocation?, does this mean I need more system agent voltage?


your IOL's are high. tune them tighter (increase IOL offset and leave IOL on auto, or increase offset + decrease IOL the same amount.). also try to reduce RTL's, though they can be hard to tune and finicky.


----------



## KedarWolf

reachthesky said:


> Hey folks. Putting the finishing touches on my ram before putting it through the gauntlet AGAIN. I want to make sure these timings are as tight as possible. Also, are the numbers in the benchmark along the lines of what I should be expecting? One thing i'm concerned about is latency, I feel like my latency should be lower than it is since I went with 280 trfc, I was getting [email protected] trfc. How are some people getting sub-40ns latency @cl16/4000mhz? Also curious if 1.15v PCH voltage is safe for daily usage. Are the numbers from the benchmark optimal for manually tuned 4000? Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> [email protected]@1.35v 1.15v IO/1.2v SA
> 
> [email protected]@1.45vdimm/training, , 1.25v sa/io
> 
> 9900k-5ghz core 4.8ghz cache
> 
> 1.35v turbo llc, no power limits(only need 1.3v for 5.0/4.3 cache, 1.32v for 5.0/4.8 cache, need 1.35v with current ram settings)
> 
> PCH- 1.15v(set 1.1v in bios because ram kept getting stuck during PCH initialization during ram training process when setting trfc to 280 from 360, xmp sets it at 1.054v when on auto)
> 
> Also, When training ram, during the training stages, how do you know the difference between not enough dram training voltage, not enough system agent, not enough vcore and not enough PCH voltage? Are there specific error codes that are quick tells? Are there certain behaviors I should be looking for?
> 
> Also, System Service Exception BSOD, Does this mean I need more IO, Sa, Dram or vcore(received this bsod while screwing around with 4200)?
> 
> Also, When training gets stuck at PCI resource allocation?, does this mean I need more system agent voltage?


Can you get good residuals at the cache with LinX 0.9.5. I can run AIDA cache test all day but soon as I run LinX at 4.8 cache instant Windows reboot. 4.7 cache I'm fine though.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## KedarWolf

reachthesky said:


> I'm not familiar with residuals or Linx. Do I just download the program and run it to see what the results are?


No, actually, be very careful. 

You need an AVX Offset or set the power limits in your BIOS to 200 or under or temps will skyrocket really bad with LinX.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## KedarWolf

reachthesky said:


> I normally have all limits maxed. I'll set the watt limit to 200. What about dram power limits?


First time you run it, set it at 25000 top left, have HWInfo open and make sure your hottest core is under 85C when it finally kicks in about 15 seconds into the run.

Stop it, close HWInfo, it'll cause errors, run it again.If your residuals are all the same you can be 99.9% sure your overclock is stable. Easiest, fastest way to see if your PC is stable and takes less than five minutes.


----------



## DrunknFoo

So.... asus z390 maximus, gskill 3600c16... 
at 4000 @1.45v... Assuming this passes with a coverage of 2000% what would you guys recommend i tighten. Trfc i can probably drop it down to 280? Prob lower... Am ignoring tertiary till i can min max the secondaries... i prob got ways to go with the secondaries alone. Any input would be appreciated... (Uhhhh *** did my pic get uploaded sideways lol)


----------



## mouacyk

DrunknFoo said:


> So.... asus z390 maximus, gskill 3600c15...
> at 4000 @1.45v... Assuming this passes with a coverage of 2000% what would you guys recommend i tighten. Trfc i can probably drop it down to 280? Prob lower... Am ignoring tertiary till i can min max the secondaries... i prob got ways to go with the secondaries alone. Any input would be appreciated... (Uhhhh *** did my pic get uploaded sideways lol)


Assuming these are 2x8GB, try CR1, tFAW of 16, lower tRFC to 288, raise tREFI through the roof (mine's maxed at 65000) and at most 1.2v for SA and IO, while keeping RAM voltage where you have it now. Good luck.


----------



## DrunknFoo

mouacyk said:


> Assuming these are 2x8GB, try CR1, tFAW of 16, lower tRFC to 288, raise tREFI through the roof (mine's maxed at 65000) and at most 1.2v for SA and IO, while keeping RAM voltage where you have it now. Good luck.



Ya 2x8, cr1 no go no. Is there a trick to posting? Disable checks i guess? I kept them enabled cause im super rusty at mem ocing and forgot alot. But ya sa io is in check. Had this running at 3800 with some sloppy timings...


----------



## DrunknFoo

Wish me luck.... 

Im limiting trefi cause i read that extended delay may cause more stress on modules? And possibly result in poorer performance... *I dunno, i cant even recall the source so probably 
gotta take it with a grain of salt...

The bottom 5 values i just dont get... Can anyone gimme a tldr on how to calc them i assume greater than or equal to something or rather...

I noticed some tertiary timings are auto ratio / adjusted based on whats changed for secondaries so ill leave those at that... Will play around with unchanged values once i validate this test.. or after attempting to tighten things a bit more. Once i figure things out lol.....

Off to work so i guess ill do some digging while im there

Damn this thread is crazy long... I started on pg 1 got to 10 then realized how many there were lmao..
Uhhhhh must be mobile ver flipping the pic. Sigh w t f


----------



## Gen.

Greetings from Russia. I'm using kits F4-3000C14-16GTZR, Z390 Aorus Master (bios F10b modded by KedarWolf ( https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...390-aorus-owners-thread-429.html#post28113454 ) and 8700K @4.8GHz Cores, 4.5GHz Cache at 1.270V Prime95 Small FFTs with AVX/AVX2/FMA3 - 2 hours and 4 hours ASUS Blender STABILITTY 100% My results RAM 4000 MHz 17-19-19-38-300-2T-31200-1.400VDDR-1.150VCCIO-1.200VCCSA. HCI MemTest 600%. Screens down:

There may be suggestions for further overclocking?

I can get 4000-4400 on 17-18-18-37 and 17-17-17-36 and 16-19-19-37 (38) but they do not pass hci. I may be start at 4200/4266/4400/4533/4600 but is not stable with any timings and voltages. Sreen 4533 down


----------



## DrunknFoo

DrunknFoo said:


> Wish me luck....
> 
> Im limiting trefi cause i read that extended delay may cause more stress on modules? And possibly result in poorer performance... *I dunno, i cant even recall the source so probably
> gotta take it with a grain of salt...
> 
> The bottom 5 values i just dont get... Can anyone gimme a tldr on how to calc them i assume greater than or equal to something or rather...
> 
> I noticed some tertiary timings are auto ratio / adjusted based on whats changed for secondaries so ill leave those at that... Will play around with unchanged values once i validate this test.. or after attempting to tighten things a bit more. Once i figure things out lol.....
> 
> Off to work so i guess ill do some digging while im there
> 
> Damn this thread is crazy long... I started on pg 1 got to 10 then realized how many there were lmao..
> Uhhhhh must be mobile ver flipping the pic. Sigh w t f




Well hci kapoot at 1230% - 1 error... One step forward one back i guess... hmmm what to loosen now...?

Maybe i will +1 trrd, and up trfc and tfaw slightly. I was pretty damn optimistic.


----------



## chibi

DrunknFoo said:


> Well hci kapoot at 1230% - 1 error... One step forward one back i guess... hmmm what to loosen now...?
> 
> Maybe i will +1 trrd, and up trfc and tfaw slightly. I was pretty damn optimistic.



At that coverage with an error it may be heat related. Did you check your ram temps? You may find it possible to keep stability with a small fan pointed at the dimms. Zip ties or mounting bracket if available.


----------



## DrunknFoo

chibi said:


> DrunknFoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well hci kapoot at 1230% - 1 error... One step forward one back i guess... hmmm what to loosen now...?
> 
> Maybe i will +1 trrd, and up trfc and tfaw slightly. I was pretty damn optimistic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At that coverage with an error it may be heat related. Did you check your ram temps? You may find it possible to keep stability with a small fan pointed at the dimms. Zip ties or mounting bracket if available.
Click to expand...

They do not exceed 48-49

My rads exhaust so they dont dump heat into the case...

I do wished it was the heat... 2nd run with 1 at 1300% 

Trying the following now...


----------



## DrunknFoo

Delete misread something


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## DrunknFoo

reachthesky said:


> You can raise trfc slighly and lower trefi slightly. Or you can place a fan pointed at the ram and run the test again with your current timings to see if the error was heat related. B-die typically spits out errors around late 40's/earlier 50's.


Well they got to 1k+ with the avg of 48-49c temps... And base without subs tested reach 2000 with the same temp...

Trfc/trefi if i ignore. I wonder if the other values are resulting the error i guess ill find out eventually. I dont think my math is off....


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## DrunknFoo

reachthesky said:


> DrunknFoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well they got to 1k+ with the avg of 48-49c temps... And base without subs tested reach 2000 with the same temp...
> 
> Trfc/trefi if i ignore. I wonder if the other values are resulting the error i guess ill find out eventually. I dont think my math is off....
> 
> 
> 
> What about tRTP? Shouldn't that be 6, 8 or 12?
Click to expand...

Ttrp is based on a formula of some sort i believe... I think it equals trrd.... this i left on auto as i do notice the values adjusting


----------



## munternet

DrunknFoo said:


> Well they got to 1k+ with the avg of 48-49c temps... And base without subs tested reach 2000 with the same temp...
> 
> Trfc/trefi if i ignore. I wonder if the other values are resulting the error i guess ill find out eventually. I dont think my math is off....


I get the odd error if I hit those temps on my B-Die. I have read people running higher temps with no errors though.


----------



## DrunknFoo

munternet said:


> DrunknFoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well they got to 1k+ with the avg of 48-49c temps... And base without subs tested reach 2000 with the same temp...
> 
> Trfc/trefi if i ignore. I wonder if the other values are resulting the error i guess ill find out eventually. I dont think my math is off....
> 
> 
> 
> I get the odd error if I hit those temps on my B-Die. I have read people running higher temps with no errors though.
Click to expand...


Really? Is that regardless of duration of the test?


----------



## munternet

DrunknFoo said:


> Really? Is that regardless of duration of the test?


I ended up running ek monarch water cooling and dropping trefi to double what auto gave me as per the advice from some of the more seasoned members and haven't had any errors since 

Edit: You could try a fan on the ram with the same settings as a test?


----------



## DrunknFoo

munternet said:


> DrunknFoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Is that regardless of duration of the test?
> 
> 
> 
> I ended up running ek monarch water cooling and dropping trefi to double what auto gave me as per the advice from some of the more seasoned members and haven't had any errors since /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> Edit: You could try a fan on the ram with the same settings as a test?
Click to expand...

Cool, nah temp wasnt limiting it... Im sure it was the uhhh tfaw. 

I did some benching to compare trrd before and after...averages of 3 tests resulted in little. Bandwidth latency all within a margin of each other... As for superpi and membench literally fractions of a milisecond.. so kept them loose as is


I just past the 2100% coverage... Waiting for the slower threads to pass. Gonna run it for an hour more and throw on karthu to see if it finds any errors with cache check on...

I think im done...(For some reason super brain fart, i thought the training bits after the tertiary in bios were the tertiary values) Gonna play price is right with trfc and max out the trefi. i know 280 wont post so ill start with 286 and probably consider it done.


----------



## munternet

DrunknFoo said:


> Cool, nah temp wasnt limiting it... Im sure it was the uhhh tfaw.
> 
> I did some benching to compare trrd before and after...averages of 3 tests resulted in little. Bandwidth latency all within a margin of each other... As for superpi and membench literally fractions of a milisecond.. so kept them loose as is
> 
> 
> I just past the 2100% coverage... Waiting for the slower threads to pass. Gonna run it for an hour more and throw on karthu to see if it finds any errors with cache check on...
> 
> I think im done...(For some reason super brain fart, i thought the training bits after the tertiary in bios were the tertiary values) Gonna play price is right with trfc and max out the trefi. i know 280 wont post so ill start with 286 and probably consider it done.


Good to see you got it sorted 
Some of the fairly experienced guys here recommended not maxing out trefi.
I'll see if I can find a post explaining their reasoning behind it.

Edit: Here it is https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-976.html#post28046858

I just quickly tried trefi 3x auto @49,473 instead of 2x auto @32,982 and although it dropped latency to 39.8 from 39.9 it dropped L3 cache read by 25%. Everything else in Aida64 was fairly unchanged.
I made the changes almost 2 months ago and no longer get any BFV crashes or any problems at all.
When I'm not gaming, both the CPU and GPU are mining 24/7 so if anyone stresses their PC it's me


----------



## hideokuze

Hi! Does anyone use the 'G.Skill RipJaws V 32GB, DDR4-3200, CL14-14-14-34 (F4-3200C14D-32GVK)' kit here? I've just received mine yesterday and I'm wondering what speed should I aim with this memory kit. If I heard well the 32 GB kits are not so OC friendly as the 16 GB ones. 

What do I gain if I use it in command rate 1T compare to 2T? 

Is it true that I completely disable the page file in Windows with 32 GB of RAM? Or what settings do you recommend? I don't encode videos, etc... I just use my rigs for gaming. 

I have an ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac paired with a delidded 8700K (5.0/4.7 GHz @ 1.315V LLC1). 

Thanks for your reply in advance! 

P.S.: Sorry for the noob questions, I'm completely new in memory OC.


----------



## DrunknFoo

munternet said:


> Good to see you got it sorted /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Some of the fairly experienced guys here recommended not maxing out trefi.
> I'll see if I can find a post explaining their reasoning behind it.
> 
> Edit: Here it is https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-976.html#post28046858


Thanks, im tying to figure out how many hours of testing these kits went through...maybe 80hours... Plus another possible 10-12 lol


Ya am aware, was figuratively speaking, saw that post the other day when i was doing a bit more research.... But thanks for the refresher


----------



## munternet

DrunknFoo said:


> Thanks, im tying to figure out how many hours of testing these kits went through...maybe 80hours... Plus another possible 10-12 lol
> 
> 
> Ya am aware, was figuratively speaking, saw that post the other day when i was doing a bit more research.... But thanks for the refresher


You're a lot more thorough than me 
I don't like to let it stop mining that long 
I updated the post above since you quoted it.


----------



## DrunknFoo

munternet said:


> DrunknFoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, im tying to figure out how many hours of testing these kits went through...maybe 80hours... Plus another possible 10-12 lol
> 
> 
> Ya am aware, was figuratively speaking, saw that post the other day when i was doing a bit more research.... But thanks for the refresher
> 
> 
> 
> You're a lot more thorough than me /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> I don't like to let it stop mining that long /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif
> I updated the post above since you quoted it.
Click to expand...

Haha just trying to min max what i can. And unstable is unstable. 😉 So ya im a stickler


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## DrunknFoo

reachthesky said:


> munternet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good to see you got it sorted /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Some of the fairly experienced guys here recommended not maxing out trefi.
> I'll see if I can find a post explaining their reasoning behind it.
> 
> Edit: Here it is https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-976.html#post28046858
> 
> I just quickly tried trefi 3x auto @49,473 instead of 2x auto @32,982 and although it dropped latency to 39.8 from 39.9 it dropped L3 cache read by 25%. Everything else in Aida64 was fairly unchanged.
> I made the changes almost 2 months ago and no longer get any BFV crashes or any problems at all.
> When I'm not gaming, both the CPU and GPU are mining 24/7 so if anyone stresses their PC it's me /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> In regards to the high trefi + lower or inconsistent cache performance, I noticed a bump in vcore and/or VccIO can solve this.
Click to expand...

Sa/io already bumped to support the 3800 half assed oc i had set prior... Its on a 9900k 52/50. Prime requires sa/io bump to pass in 6h mark usually to address cache and ic issues, i stepped down from targeting a higher mem freq cause i dont wanna bump those values up any higher potentially.


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> In regards to the high trefi + lower or inconsistent cache performance, I noticed a bump in vcore and/or VccIO can solve this.


Not a lot of headroom left really....
I spent days getting the voltages to the exact position where the memory errors the least then dropped the overclock back until there were no errors.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## DrunknFoo

Ok!!!! Trfc min max value of 88 was the culprit, 86 errored. I think im donesos!!?! Last validation test started, light at the end of the tunnel!

And im pretty happy. =D


----------



## moorhen2

4533mhz at 1.455v.


----------



## DrunknFoo

moorhen2 said:


> 4533mhz at 1.455v.


Personally i wouldnt settle with that low coverage, but looks good. I found errors as high as 1300 and 1500ish


----------



## munternet

DrunknFoo said:


> Personally i wouldnt settle with that low coverage, but looks good. I found errors as high as 1300 and 1500ish


Noob question but...Am I reading it wrong or does it say 12,000?


----------



## DrunknFoo

munternet said:


> Noob question but...Am I reading it wrong or does it say 12,000?


look at the % per thread. but it could be perfectly fine


----------



## munternet

DrunknFoo said:


> look at the % per thread. but it could be perfectly fine


Oh I see. T for total. That's a bit misleading.


----------



## Gen.

Greetings from Russia. I'm using kits F4-3000C14-16GTZR, Z390 Aorus Master (bios F10b modded by KedarWolf ( https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-in...l#post28113454 ) and 8700K @4.8GHz Cores, 4.5GHz Cache at 1.270V Prime95 Small FFTs with AVX/AVX2/FMA3 - 2 hours and 4 hours ASUS Blender STABILITTY 100% My results RAM 4000 MHz 17-19-19-38-300-2T-31200-1.400VDDR-1.150VCCIO-1.150VCCSA. Karhu RAM Test 57600%. Screens down:

There may be suggestions for further overclocking?

I can get 4000-4400 on 17-18-18-37 and 17-17-17-36 and 16-19-19-37 (38) but they do not pass hci and karhu. I may be start at 4200/4266/4400/4533/4600 but is not stable with any timings and voltages.


----------



## moorhen2

DrunknFoo said:


> Personally i wouldnt settle with that low coverage, but looks good. I found errors as high as 1300 and 1500ish


And your errors were probably temp related, B-Die IC's are well known for it, if you read the first page, 400% HCI is classed as a pass., no need to run for hours.


----------



## DrunknFoo

moorhen2 said:


> DrunknFoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally i wouldnt settle with that low coverage, but looks good. I found errors as high as 1300 and 1500ish
> 
> 
> 
> And your errors were probably temp related, B-Die IC's are well known for it, if you read the first page, 400% HCI is classed as a pass., no need to run for hours.
Click to expand...

Wasnt temp related but thanks, as well... Id rather be thorough with testing...


----------



## wot

Complete OC ram noob please be easy on me 

Guys I've got F4-4133C19D-16GTZR kit witch im trying to run on my 9900K, Evga z370 classi k board (I know the ram is not in QVL list) and the only "stable" speed so far is 3866 17-17-17-37 anything over 3866 board refuse to post.
9900k is at 4.9 all cores 1.28v
1.45V dimm 
VSA 1.3v
Vccio 1.25
Any suggestions, tips? Does XI apex worth the extra 200 euro?


----------



## Jpmboy

The Apex XI is an amazing board for the 9900K... whether the 200e upgrade is only something you can know.
What are you trying to achieve with that ram? 3866 too slow or something?


----------



## moorhen2

wot said:


> Complete OC ram noob please be easy on me
> 
> Guys I've got F4-4133C19D-16GTZR kit witch im trying to run on my 9900K, Evga z370 classi k board (I know the ram is not in QVL list) and the only "stable" speed so far is 3866 17-17-17-37 anything over 3866 board refuse to post.
> 9900k is at 4.9 all cores 1.28v
> 1.45V dimm
> VSA 1.3v
> Vccio 1.25
> Any suggestions, tips? Does XI apex worth the extra 200 euro?


Have you tried just setting the rams XMP, that will set the kits stock timings, also IO and SA voltages will need tweaking, higher is not always better in many instances.


----------



## wot

Jpmboy said:


> The Apex XI is an amazing board for the 9900K... whether the 200e upgrade is only something you can know.
> What are you trying to achieve with that ram? 3866 too slow or something?


 4000Mhz+ or lower with tight timings



Jpmboy said:


> Have you tried just setting the rams XMP, that will set the kits stock timings, also IO and SA voltages will need tweaking, higher is not always better in many instances.?


Yes I did try XMP, also 21-21-21-41, 1.5v, IO and SA from 1.15 to 1.35 board refuse to post...


----------



## Jpmboy

wot said:


> 4000Mhz+ or lower with tight timings
> 
> 
> Yes I did try XMP, also 21-21-21-41, 1.5v, IO and SA from 1.15 to 1.35 board refuse to post...


 I'm not familiar with that specific board, but 4000c16 should be achievable. return all ram settings to Auto (ideally do a clear cmos if you enabled XMP at ANY point). Then set 1.45 VDIMM, 1.25 SA, 1.25 IO, manually set freq to 4000 and enter only CAS 16. See if it will boot. if not, see if it will boot with CAS on Auto.
Again, XMP sets parameters that you may not have access to in that bios... do a clr cmos to clean out any buried XMP programming.


----------



## Middleman

F4-3600C16Q-64GTZN - I just ordered this kit and will post results for x299 platform.

The 3200mhz C14 kit is officially supported on QVL for Asus Rampage Apex VI, however I have faith that I will get these working as its probably the same memory.

Post will come soon, waiting on safe delivery 🙂 . Wish me luck! Ttyl!


----------



## Silent Scone

Hope everyone is keeping well.

Quick result

1.4 DRAM

SA/IO 1.18/1.15v


----------



## ThrashZone

Silent Scone said:


> Hope everyone is keeping well.
> 
> Quick result
> 
> 1.4 DRAM
> 
> SA/IO 1.18/1.15v


Hi,
Nice to see you what happened at asus forum no more active ?


----------



## mouacyk

Silent Scone said:


> Hope everyone is keeping well.
> 
> Quick result
> 
> 1.4 DRAM
> 
> SA/IO 1.18/1.15v


4x8GB! This quite a feat for 1T. What's the latency?


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> Hope everyone is keeping well.
> 
> Quick result
> 
> 1.4 DRAM
> 
> SA/IO 1.18/1.15v


nice! What Kit is that?


----------



## Silent Scone

Jpmboy said:


> nice! What Kit is that?


4266C17

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/
g.s...d-channel-kit-f4-4266c17q-32gt-my-11e-gs.html



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Nice to see you what happened at asus forum no more active ?


Still active, just busy


----------



## ViTosS

Do you guys think 3600Mhz CL15-15-15-35 at 1:1 is better than 4000Mhz CL16-17-17-37 2:1?

Also the setting in BIOS is 1N or N:1? I tried 3600Mhz CL16-16-16-36, DRAM 1.42v and 1.20v SA/IO couldn't even boot... At 1N....


----------



## wot

Jpmboy said:


> I'm not familiar with that specific board, but 4000c16 should be achievable. return all ram settings to Auto (ideally do a clear cmos if you enabled XMP at ANY point). Then set 1.45 VDIMM, 1.25 SA, 1.25 IO, manually set freq to 4000 and enter only CAS 16. See if it will boot. if not, see if it will boot with CAS on Auto.
> Again, XMP sets parameters that you may not have access to in that bios... do a clr cmos to clean out any buried XMP programming.


Nope sys refuse to post and ram led is on


----------



## Intrud3r

Does anybody have some tips to get even more out of this kit ?

Atm I'm running 3733 Mhz @ C17-20-20 with a lot of 2nd and 3rd settings manually set in bios.
Ran a memtest last night and let it run during the night. No errors this morning ... almost got to 1000% on some instances. No errors detected.


----------



## Dasboogieman

Intrud3r said:


> Does anybody have some tips to get even more out of this kit ?
> 
> Atm I'm running 3733 Mhz @ C17-20-20 with a lot of 2nd and 3rd settings manually set in bios.
> Ran a memtest last night and let it run during the night. No errors this morning ... almost got to 1000% on some instances. No errors detected.


Looks like Hynix CJR

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4

Apparently scaling is unknown but similar to B-die. You can try to reach standard B-die speeds first. e.g. 3733mhz 17-17-17 -36 @1.35V and go from there. Then you can shoot for tight settings like 3600 15-15-15 @ 1.35-1.4V ish and/or play with the CR. Or alternatively, you can try for 4000 but thats gonna be hard with 4 sticks.

You might have some room to play with on the tRFC. B-die usually easily gets to 270-280 so you can give that a shot.


----------



## Intrud3r

Dasboogieman said:


> Looks like Hynix CJR
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4
> 
> Apparently scaling is unknown but similar to B-die. You can try to reach standard B-die speeds first. e.g. 3733mhz 17-17-17 -36 @1.35V and go from there. Then you can shoot for tight settings like 3600 15-15-15 @ 1.35-1.4V ish and/or play with the CR. Or alternatively, you can try for 4000 but thats gonna be hard with 4 sticks.
> 
> You might have some room to play with on the tRFC. B-die usually easily gets to 270-280 so you can give that a shot.


Thank you for your input. Never thought I would be able to get to 4000 with my kit, but it seems to boot into windows after a second try at 1.450V
Need further testing, but the start is there ...


----------



## encrypted11

CJR's are on the SK Hynix 1y nm (around 18nm) process. The SPD's saying it's a 8Gb Rev-A die, aka 8Gb AFR.

This is an actual CJR kit from Klevv Essencore 
https://www.anandtech.com/show/8927/new-challenger-klevv-dram-modules-house-brand-of-sk-hynix









A CFR kit from G.SKILL


Spoiler


----------



## Intrud3r

Got 4000 Mhz running @ C18-22-22 and the rest of the timing in the pic.

Test is just started in the pic, it's still running with an average of 45-50% on the 16 instances of memtestpro.

Didn't think my kit would actually be able to get to 4000. Makes me sorta happy 

Btw ... it costed me 4-5 cmos resets as training wasn't working with tighter timings. Luckily I saved the 3733 profile and adjusted from there ...

Edit:
Second pic: Test is still running strong


----------



## BLUuuE

Intrud3r said:


> Got 4000 Mhz running @ C18-22-22 and the rest of the timing in the pic.
> 
> Test is just started in the pic, it's still running with an average of 45-50% on the 16 instances of memtestpro.
> 
> Didn't think my kit would actually be able to get to 4000. Makes me sorta happy
> 
> Btw ... it costed me 4-5 cmos resets as training wasn't working with tighter timings. Luckily I saved the 3733 profile and adjusted from there ...
> 
> Edit:
> Second pic: Test is still running strong


That's pretty impressive for AFR. Most, if not all, cap out at 3600.

That looks more like CJR than AFR, so it's possible that the SPD is misprogrammed.

Can you take a picture of the label on the back of the sticks?

There should be a "042" string.

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4#wiki_g.skill_sn_table


----------



## Dasboogieman

encrypted11 said:


> CJR's are on the SK Hynix 1y nm (around 18nm) process. The SPD's saying it's a 8Gb Rev-A die, aka 8Gb AFR.
> 
> This is an actual CJR kit from Klevv Essencore
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/8927/new-challenger-klevv-dram-modules-house-brand-of-sk-hynix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A CFR kit from G.SKILL
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Yeah, my initial thoughts based on SPD and manufacturing was that it's an AFR kit. However, the binning and preliminary testing didn't suggest it because I don't remember AFR scaling that well. It's possible that it's it's a golden AFR set or that it's a mislabelled CJR kit.


----------



## Jpmboy

Silent Scone said:


> 4266C17
> 
> https://www.overclockers.co.uk/
> g.skill-trident-z-rgb-32gb-4x8gb-ddr4-pc4-34100c17-4266mhz-dual-quad-channel-kit-f4-4266c17q-32gt-my-11e-gs.html
> 
> Still active, just busy


tight.. low latency! :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

posted this 64GB ram result a back in April... been running a 12GB ram cache (why, I don't really know). Still going strong and error free! Every once in a warm boot the RTLs/IOLs drift, but a cold boot realigns everything.
April and current config:


----------



## encrypted11

Dasboogieman said:


> Yeah, my initial thoughts based on SPD and manufacturing was that it's an AFR kit. However, the binning and preliminary testing didn't suggest it because I don't remember AFR scaling that well. It's possible that it's it's a golden AFR set or that it's a mislabelled CJR kit.



The scaling looks similar to CJR however, like you mentioned.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-941.html#post27970656


----------



## Intrud3r

A new test is still running with 0 errors detected, started as soon as I went to get some sleep (was doing some gaming yesterday evening) .... didn't know spd's got misprogrammed ... still don't know if that is the case with my sticks however ... but the test is still running strong 

Btw ... when can I say it's stable ? Like at 1000% ?

Or do I need to use GSAT or what not ?


----------



## Intrud3r

BLUuuE said:


> That's pretty impressive for AFR. Most, if not all, cap out at 3600.
> 
> That looks more like CJR than AFR, so it's possible that the SPD is misprogrammed.
> 
> Can you take a picture of the label on the back of the sticks?
> 
> There should be a "042" string.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4#wiki_g.skill_sn_table


Got your pic and if I'm looking at the right string, it says 04213X8821C


----------



## Intrud3r

Hot damn ... really never thought this kit would be able to run @ 4000 Mhz ... 

Came home after work, noticed a couple of test instances were closed ... was like, oh no .... it did crash ?
Nope, it just closed the instances that finished the test ... probably at 2000% or something like that ... 

Here's a quick grab from the log file.

[9132] Mon Sep 16 18:01:52 2019 >> Status Update: 1788.4% Coverage, 0 Errors
[8860] Mon Sep 16 18:01:56 2019 >> Status Update: 1923.8% Coverage, 0 Errors
[6476] Mon Sep 16 18:02:00 2019 >> Status Update: 1965.1% Coverage, 0 Errors
[9212] Mon Sep 16 18:02:04 2019 >> Status Update: 1979.7% Coverage, 0 Errors
[10388] Mon Sep 16 18:02:08 2019 >> Status Update: 1680.8% Coverage, 0 Errors
[4280] Mon Sep 16 18:02:13 2019 >> Status Update: 1851.0% Coverage, 0 Errors
[3068] Mon Sep 16 18:02:16 2019 >> Status Update: 1951.7% Coverage, 0 Errors
[10396] Mon Sep 16 18:02:21 2019 >> Status Update: 1976.5% Coverage, 0 Errors
[2148] Mon Sep 16 18:02:25 2019 >> Status Update: 1471.0% Coverage, 0 Errors
[14196] Mon Sep 16 18:02:29 2019 >> Status Update: 1857.6% Coverage, 0 Errors
[8420] Mon Sep 16 18:02:33 2019 >> Status Update: 1945.2% Coverage, 0 Errors
[12164] Mon Sep 16 18:02:38 2019 >> Status Update: 1971.2% Coverage, 0 Errors
[12988] Mon Sep 16 18:11:35 2019 >> Status Update: 995.1% Coverage, 0 Errors
[12008] Mon Sep 16 18:11:40 2019 >> Status Update: 1415.6% Coverage, 0 Errors
[6108] Mon Sep 16 18:11:43 2019 >> Status Update: 1708.2% Coverage, 0 Errors
[7992] Mon Sep 16 18:11:48 2019 >> Status Update: 1887.4% Coverage, 0 Errors
[9132] Mon Sep 16 18:11:52 2019 >> Status Update: 1807.2% Coverage, 0 Errors
[9212] Mon Sep 16 18:11:52 2019 >> Test finished. 0 errors found.


----------



## Middleman

Just installed and tweaked the F4-3600C16Q-64GTZN memory kit. It is 16gb sticks times 4, 64gb total
Running on X299 platform - Asus Rampage Apex VI


I am not able to go past 3737mhz - even if i change timings, command rate, or juice (voltage)


Best Results
1868.8 / 3737.6 mhz @ 1.37v
15-15-15-36-1

101169 mb/s read
106981 mb/s write
94891 mb/s copy
49.7.6 ns latency
===================
F4-3600C16Q-64GTZN


----------



## Jpmboy

Middleman said:


> Just installed and tweaked the F4-3600C16Q-64GTZN memory kit. It is 16gb sticks times 4, 64gb total
> Running on X299 platform - Asus Rampage Apex VI
> 
> 
> I am not able to go past 3737mhz - even if i change timings, command rate, or juice (voltage)
> 
> 
> Best Results
> 1868.8 / 3737.6 mhz @ 1.37v
> 15-15-15-36-1
> 
> 101169 mb/s read
> 106981 mb/s write
> 94891 mb/s copy
> 49.7.6 ns latency
> ===================
> F4-3600C16Q-64GTZN


that's daum good for DS (16GB sticks! :thumb:


----------



## BLUuuE

Intrud3r said:


> Got your pic and if I'm looking at the right string, it says 04213X8821C


Yep, that's CJR, which is why you can do 4000MHz.

My good CJR stick can do 4000 16-22-22 1.45v and that was with a 3600 19-20-20 1.35v stick. 
The other 2 could only manage 3600MHz and 3800MHz, tho I probably lost the silicon lottery.


----------



## Intrud3r

BLUuuE said:


> Yep, that's CJR, which is why you can do 4000MHz.
> 
> My good CJR stick can do 4000 16-22-22 1.45v and that was with a 3600 19-20-20 1.35v stick.
> The other 2 could only manage 3600MHz and 3800MHz, tho I probably lost the silicon lottery.


I'm curious where I'll end up ... atm I'm running my memory at 4000 C18-22-22-43-560 etc (see pics I posted). Will probably gonna try C17 with 22-22, if that fails which it probably will, I'll try 18-21-21. If that fails I'll leave it at 18-22-22 and I'll go tighten the secondary and tertiary timings ... 

Lowered VCCIO and VCCSA a bit again ... 

VCCIO = 1.180V (results in 1.144-1.155V)
VCCSA = 1.200V (results in 1.200-1.212V)

I could boot 3733 with 1.100V on my VCCIO, so with a bit of luck I can still lower that one.

Really happy with this link tho:
https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

Thanks for posting it ... it clears up a lot of things.


----------



## Dasboogieman

encrypted11 said:


> CJR's are on the SK Hynix 1y nm (around 18nm) process. The SPD's saying it's a 8Gb Rev-A die, aka 8Gb AFR.
> 
> This is an actual CJR kit from Klevv Essencore
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/8927/new-challenger-klevv-dram-modules-house-brand-of-sk-hynix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A CFR kit from G.SKILL
> 
> 
> Spoiler





Intrud3r said:


> A new test is still running with 0 errors detected, started as soon as I went to get some sleep (was doing some gaming yesterday evening) .... didn't know spd's got misprogrammed ... still don't know if that is the case with my sticks however ... but the test is still running strong
> 
> Btw ... when can I say it's stable ? Like at 1000% ?
> 
> Or do I need to use GSAT or what not ?


Damn, thats pretty stable. I usually let my PC run a rotating combo of HCI, GSAT 8hrs, Karhu and memtest 86 whenever I'm at work or sleeping for around 2 weeks mostly for peace of mind to assure absolute stability. Since they're all idle time anyway, you may as well. Looks like you won the lottery on those 3200mhz CJR sticks. Now comes the annoying part, tightening secondaries and tertiaries XD


----------



## Jpmboy

Dasboogieman said:


> Damn, thats pretty stable. *I usually let my PC run a rotating combo of HCI, GSAT 8hrs, Karhu and memtest 86 whenever I'm at work or sleeping for around 2 weeks *mostly for peace of mind to assure absolute stability. Since they're all idle time anyway, you may as well. Looks like you won the lottery on those 3200mhz CJR sticks. Now comes the annoying part, tightening secondaries and tertiaries XD


Really? 2 weeks of stability testing? :blinksmil


----------



## Intrud3r

Dasboogieman said:


> Damn, thats pretty stable. I usually let my PC run a rotating combo of HCI, GSAT 8hrs, Karhu and memtest 86 whenever I'm at work or sleeping for around 2 weeks mostly for peace of mind to assure absolute stability. Since they're all idle time anyway, you may as well. Looks like you won the lottery on those 3200mhz CJR sticks. Now comes the annoying part, tightening secondaries and tertiaries XD


Was playing with timings yesterday evening (it got a bit late  ) ...

See where I ended up  0 errors this morning ... I'm all happy !

Btw ... tightening the secondaries and the tertiaries was actually fun. I had no situation where I had to clear the CMOS ... Just quickly tested aida mem stresstest with cache to check if it was sorta stable, if it gave me an error within 1 min ... def unstable. If not ... Memtest pro was started. If there came an error, restarting - diff setting - try again. Training went smooth ... better then I expected. Still have more to tighten but for now this looks good 

Below pic is running with:
VCCIO = 1.180V (results in 1.155V)
VCCSA = 1.200V (results in 1.200-1.212V)


----------



## Dasboogieman

Jpmboy said:


> Really? 2 weeks of stability testing? :blinksmil


Why not? tons of dead time anyway while sleeping and working, just set and forget. Some days, I go home and just go straight to sleep so I get like almost 18-24hrs of solid testing. Basically bypasses the whole 3-6 month uncertain rigamole of "test until 1000% and just use it until something crashes". But this regime is for me personally, I'm not seeking the absolute best settings for bragging rights or benching, I'm going for the fastest speed with the highest stability possible to make my general PC use more pleasant.


----------



## Intrud3r

Can somebody please tell me how this option is precisely called on my Aorus Ultra ?

Increase IOL offsets to reduce RTLs and IOLs.

IOL Offset = IoLatR0D0 and the other 3 for all the dimm slots ?

Just wanna be sure before I freck something up.


----------



## Intrud3r

Btw ... settings were not stable ... Memtest Pro showed no errors, but ... Borderlands 3 crashed within 10 min. Decided to try Anno 1800 as that showed my memory being unstable easily before ... it crashed starting up.

Decided to put tREFI on Auto .... Just a hunch I had ... Rebooted, it changed from manual = 32768 to Auto = 15600 ... Anno 1800 ran flawlessly again ... 

Rest of the settings are still unchanged ... 16-22-22-40-cr2-520 and the rest ...

Curious about the RTL and IO-L values ... eager to try ... want confirmation ... don't know if I can wait


----------



## Intrud3r

Tightened some more settings ... that took me about 3 cmos resets  bleh ... 

But here is what I ended up with ... gonna test this night again to see if memtest pro shows any errors ... 
Some games and 3dmark crap will be tested beforehand.

Edit:
It seems CL16 gave me problems ... Anno 1800 would crash, or it would just reboot my computer ... 
Changed CL16-CL17 ... loosened some more and now it seems stable.
Need more testing.

Edit2:
Seems me lowering my VCCIO / VCCSA voltages got some serial IO crap corrupted which made my system unstable. After reverting back to 3733 Mhz, device manager showed no issues anymore, upped my memory speed again to 3800 ... did some tests, worked nicely. Device manager showed no issues. Upped memory speed to 4000 Mhz, and dropped some timings ... device manager still shows no issues, RTL's are looking good and Anno 1800 keeps running like a charm.


----------



## Silent Scone

Dasboogieman said:


> Why not? tons of dead time anyway while sleeping and working, just set and forget. Some days, I go home and just go straight to sleep so I get like almost 18-24hrs of solid testing. Basically bypasses the whole 3-6 month uncertain rigamole of "test until 1000% and just use it until something crashes". But this regime is for me personally, I'm not seeking the absolute best settings for bragging rights or benching, I'm going for the fastest speed with the highest stability possible to make my general PC use more pleasant.


I test with GSAT for 2 hours when dialling in. I don't have any of the "rigmarole" you speak of. It's always good to remember that the system could flip a bit at any time, regardless of coverage already made without error. For that reason enough truly is often enough, which is why the authors of HCI recommend 1000% as the proverbial line in the sand. If data integrity is that important to the user, it's best not to overclock the memory.


----------



## JoeRambo

Silent Scone said:


> If data integrity is that important to the user, it's best not to overclock the memory.



Indeed. And even better use ECC memory with workstation class hw that supports it. Cosmic rays DO flip bits if you watch/care long enough.


----------



## Intrud3r

It seems I need to settle at 17-22-22 @ 4000 Mhz.

This night I had a stresstest running at 16-22-22 @ 4000 Mhz (see below pic, it seems stable.)
However when I start a game (Anno 1800 for example), it runs for a while and then my computer freezes.)

I've upped VCCIO to 1.270V (resulting in 1.252V) and DDR4 voltage to 1.460V (just to test as ddr4 voltages swing a bit, when at 1.450V it swings between 1.440 - 1.452V. This didn't help the freezing.)

Put CL from 16 - 17 and that seems to fix the freezing issues.

Is it just like that my memory just doesn't wanna run at CL16 at that speed ? Or do I need more VCCSA / VCCIO as it freezes running games and the memtest shows no errors ?


----------



## munternet

Intrud3r said:


> It seems I need to settle at 17-22-22 @ 4000 Mhz.
> 
> This night I had a stresstest running at 16-22-22 @ 4000 Mhz (see below pic, it seems stable.)
> However when I start a game (Anno 1800 for example), it runs for a while and then my computer freezes.)
> 
> I've upped VCCIO to 1.270V (resulting in 1.252V) and DDR4 voltage to 1.460V (just to test as ddr4 voltages swing a bit, when at 1.450V it swings between 1.440 - 1.452V. This didn't help the freezing.)
> 
> Put CL from 16 - 17 and that seems to fix the freezing issues.
> 
> Is it just like that my memory just doesn't wanna run at CL16 at that speed ? Or do I need more VCCSA / VCCIO as it freezes running games and the memtest shows no errors ?


I personally like to run memtest86 test 6 and get the memory showing a few errors by upping the frequency until the errors are fairly consistent and then move the dram, io and sa voltages up and down to find the lowest number of errors. If you manage to remove the errors increase the frequency a bit more. After that I don't deviate from those voltages and Write them down 
Watch the memory temps also or just touch the modules to see they're not getting too warm.


----------



## Falkentyne

If you don't have aida64 full version you can use this to check memory bandwidth.

http://maxxpi2.de/pages/downloads/maxxmemsup2---download.php


----------



## Intrud3r

Settling at 3800-C16-21-21 seems to be working fine ... will run a memtest overnight to see how it holds up.


----------



## munternet

I have been getting a few game freezes in BFV and getting kicked back to desktop or even a total freeze.
Not sure whether it's the IMC on the 8700k or what the story is so I have decided to dial my overclock back.
CPU 5.2GHz > 5.1GHz
Memory 4220-17-18-18-39 > 4017-16-15-15-28
Not sure why but the memory won't boot 15-15-15-28. Gets AC error.


----------



## Intrud3r

Dialing back was my solution also ... Tried lower settings last night, got 3800-C16-21-21 running at 1.390V
Battlefield 5 was behaving nicely,

Ran a memtest over night, 0 errors.
I'll prolly leave it at this.

P.S. My experience was exactly the same, memory somewhat unstable (maybe cause of VCCIO / VCCSA) let my game (battlefield 5) crash to desktop / or total freeze with screens going black and sounds getting corrupted.
However memtest showed no errors running till +500%


----------



## JjX

Hi

In search for help or something...
iam at the end of my DDR oc but....maybe maybe more...u know :b

on my 170 pro gaming, i can boot at 3866 end more with 1 stick, but not with 2 ! the channel B is not happy after 3733Mhz, 
iam already at 1.5v, vccio 1.20 sa 1.25, i wont go higher and iam not sure its a voltage problem...Well maybe some have an idea ? there's somes screen.

another thing is the 4 tRDWR, i know it should be equal to CAS, i dont have screen but i saw more performance in aida with Trdwr = cas+1 or +2, but at CAS 14 the auto is 12, so...do someone have more info about that on z170 ?


kiss kiss

https://ibb.co/KWBKMtz


----------



## JjX

Hi

In search for help or something...
iam at the end of my DDR oc but....maybe maybe more...u know :b

on my 170 pro gaming, i can boot at 3866 end more with 1 stick, but not with 2 ! the channel B is not happy after 3733Mhz, 
iam already at 1.5v, vccio 1.20 sa 1.25, i wont go higher and iam not sure its a voltage problem...Well maybe some have an idea ? there's somes screen.

another thing is the 4 tRDWR, i know it should be equal to CAS, i dont have screen but i saw more performance in aida with Trdwr = cas+1 or +2, but at CAS 14 the auto is 12, so...do someone have more info about that on z170 ?


kiss kiss


----------



## munternet

Intrud3r said:


> Dialing back was my solution also ... Tried lower settings last night, got 3800-C16-21-21 running at 1.390V
> Battlefield 5 was behaving nicely,
> 
> Ran a memtest over night, 0 errors.
> I'll prolly leave it at this.
> 
> P.S. My experience was exactly the same, memory somewhat unstable (maybe cause of VCCIO / VCCSA) let my game (battlefield 5) crash to desktop / or total freeze with screens going black and sounds getting corrupted.
> However memtest showed no errors running till +500%


Sounds like the same crash as me. Getting the audio loop the same.
After a little trial and error it seems I can leave my overclock as it was with the [email protected] and only dropping the memory CL to 18. 4200-18-18-18-39.
All my final stress testing is now carried out in BFV. It seems to be what breaks the overclock anyway so I just go straight to it. 2 or 3 hours seems to suffice and it's much more fun than P95, even WITH the hackers 
Gave it a good 3 hours+ last night.
The crashing might be due to degradation or it might be that the weather warming up, even though my ram is water cooled but the CPU temps seem LOWER in BFV than they were 4 months ago. I'm assuming they made some changes with the updates??
Anyway, all seems good now


----------



## Intrud3r

munternet said:


> Sounds like the same crash as me. Getting the audio loop the same.
> After a little trial and error it seems I can leave my overclock as it was with the [email protected] and only dropping the memory CL to 18. 4200-18-18-18-39.
> All my final stress testing is now carried out in BFV. It seems to be what breaks the overclock anyway so I just go straight to it. 2 or 3 hours seems to suffice and it's much more fun than P95, even WITH the hackers
> Gave it a good 3 hours+ last night.
> The crashing might be due to degradation or it might be that the weather warming up, even though my ram is water cooled but the CPU temps seem LOWER in BFV than they were 4 months ago. I'm assuming they made some changes with the updates??
> Anyway, all seems good now


I couldn't resist to try, but it seems 4000-17-22-22-41 is ok at 1.450V. Battlefield ran nicely. Anno 1800 showed no issues.
VCCIO and VCCSA both at 1.250V (io=1.232V sa=1.248-1.260V)

Must admit, am sorta curious if anything above 4000 would be stable ... seeing I can run 3200-3800 @ 16-21-21 and 4000 @ 17-22-22 ... maybe it will allow me to run 4200 @ 17-22-22? But I'm thinking I'm already stretching it ... so I'll prolly won't bother.


----------



## Agent-A01

Anyone familiar with 0x133 BSOD?

Thinking it's memory.

I'm running 32GB on BWE @ 3200mhz C13-14-13-28

I started playing BL3 and i kept getting crashes on it consistently(only game).

Ended up playing with voltages that didn't help at all.

I added +1 to every secondary timing(running tight timings all around) and that has lead to me not having a BSOD for the past few days. 
Just got another one today.

Wonder which secondary timing is the culprit.


----------



## kevindd992002

It's been years since I overclocked my system (DDR3 era) and I now have the time to dive into this again but don't know where to start. Is there some sort of a guide in overclocking the G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW TridentZ Series (Samsung B-Die) with an ASUS Maximus X Code board? I have a custom watercooling loop with this system.


----------



## Jpmboy

kevindd992002 said:


> It's been years since I overclocked my system (DDR3 era) and I now have the time to dive into this again but don't know where to start. Is there some sort of a guide in overclocking the G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW TridentZ Series (Samsung B-Die) with an ASUS Maximus X Code board? I have a custom watercooling loop with this system.


 there is a ton of information in this thread... long as it is. Someone posted a link to a pretty thorough guide
But frankly, this thread is loaded with good stable examples to follow.


----------



## kevindd992002

Jpmboy said:


> there is a ton of information in this thread... long as it is. Someone posted a link to a pretty thorough guide
> But frankly, this thread is loaded with good stable examples to follow.


Ok, thanks. Is there like an "order" to follow in overclocking? I mean, do I need to OC the CPU first before the RAM and GPU?


----------



## munternet

kevindd992002 said:


> Ok, thanks. Is there like an "order" to follow in overclocking? I mean, do I need to OC the CPU first before the RAM and GPU?


I think the general consensus is to do them in the order you have them listed, at least that's what seems to be the norm.
With nearly 11k posts on here you are probably more qualified than me to decide 

Edit: I have the Maximus X Hero which is pretty close to your Code and delided 8700k and G.Skill so if you want any settings I think I have my voltages fairly optimal for my sledgehammer overclock 
Your ram looks good as a few people are getting excellent results with them. I found 4 sticks raised the ceiling a fair bit with the T-Topology even though mine aren't matched.


----------



## kevindd992002

munternet said:


> I think the general consensus is to do them in the order you have them listed, at least that's what seems to be the norm.
> With nearly 11k posts on here you are probably more qualified than me to decide
> 
> Edit: I have the Maximus X Hero which is pretty close to your Code and delided 8700k and G.Skill so if you want any settings I think I have my voltages fairly optimal for my sledgehammer overclock
> Your ram looks good as a few people are getting excellent results with them. I found 4 sticks raised the ceiling a fair bit with the T-Topology even though mine aren't matched.


Got it, so CPU -> RAM -> GPU. Well, I do have a lot of posts over the years, but I'm in no way considered an expert in the field of OC'ing  I'm not a noob though. So I still have a lot to learn along the way.

Thanks. I'll keep reading and will probably send you a message when I need those voltage settings.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Ran into this on rog forum 
rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?113359-MaxxMem2-DDR4-Ram-Scores

Anyone care to compare it's latency results with aida64 
Mine are terrible like 61.4 on quad core 4k x299 :/


----------



## Falkentyne

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Ran into this on rog forum
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?113359-MaxxMem2-DDR4-Ram-Scores
> 
> Anyone care to compare it's latency results with aida64
> Mine are terrible like 61.4 on quad core 4k x299 :/


I posted about this earlier and no one even said anything :/
Scores are like more than 15k lower and 10ns latency higher than AIDA64.


----------



## Jpmboy

Yeah, MaxxMen and AID64 use very different methods to assess Latency and speed.


----------



## kongasdf

JjX said:


> Hi
> 
> In search for help or something...
> iam at the end of my DDR oc but....maybe maybe more...u know :b
> 
> on my 170 pro gaming, i can boot at 3866 end more with 1 stick, but not with 2 ! the channel B is not happy after 3733Mhz,
> iam already at 1.5v, vccio 1.20 sa 1.25, i wont go higher and iam not sure its a voltage problem...Well maybe some have an idea ? there's somes screen.
> 
> another thing is the 4 tRDWR, i know it should be equal to CAS, i dont have screen but i saw more performance in aida with Trdwr = cas+1 or +2, but at CAS 14 the auto is 12, so...do someone have more info about that on z170 ?
> 
> 
> kiss kiss


Hi JjX,

Refer to the comments in ASRock BIOS to apply the value calculation in the above picture.

tRDWR = CL - tCWL + 10
15 =14 - 9 + 10

If CL = tCWL = 14, then tRDWR = 14 - 14 + 10
I don't know why your system is 12. There may be potential for optimization.


----------



## Intrud3r

Just trying to understand this board (Aorus Ultra) and memory overclocking:

Am I thinking in the right direction when I state the following:

When my memory stresstest @ 4000 Mhz C16 seems stable till way above 1000% on hci memtest, but as soon as I start playing games, the games will crash.

Is this then caused by too low VCCIO / VCCSA because the memtest runs without any errors, but as the memtest only stresses the memory and not in combination with the gpu to deliver frames per second as such.

Does this make sense ?

Trying to understand why I can memtest 4000 C16 no problems, but when I start games, they crash at C16. C17 works nicely tho ...


----------



## onynem

Hi guys, I would like to ask quite a general question. Can someone advice changes or improvements. I got my RAM to 3800 1:1, 14-14-14-26 40, and other secondaries lower also, but cant get Tfaw lower than 38 which is way to high. Adding screenshots. I noticed that on that screenshot...SCL values r wrong...i have them both on 3 now. Any advide regarding those settings?


----------



## ThrashZone

Falkentyne said:


> I posted about this earlier and no one even said anything :/
> Scores are like more than 15k lower and 10ns latency higher than AIDA64.


Hi,
My x99 on probably your 3200C14 timings mine are pretty much manually default except a couple basic tweaks Jp suggested 



Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, MaxxMen and AID64 use very different methods to assess Latency and speed.


Hi,
Yep this seems more of a cache test than memory frankly seeing it affects score more than memory timings.
Sorry can't put these in a spoiler because I can't see them


----------



## Jpmboy

that's quite a difference due to cache clock!


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> that's quite a difference due to cache clock!


Hi,
Yep x299 is doomed on this benchmark think I did 32 just for kicks 30 too but posted both on rog forum


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep x299 is doomed on this benchmark think I did 32 just for kicks 30 too but posted both on rog forum


where did you DL it from ? Or can you post the zip file?


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> where did you DL it from ? Or can you post the zip file?


Hi,
Off asus thread 
You might want to let your antivirus scan it on the download 
mbam premium flagged it and blocked the maxxmem website as containing trogans

Three four days ago mbam didn't block yesterday it did not sure what to make of that :/
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?113359-MaxxMem2-DDR4-Ram-Scores


----------



## Jpmboy

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Off asus thread
> You might want to let your antivirus scan it on the download
> mbam premium flagged it and blocked the maxxmem website as containing trogans
> 
> Three four days ago mbam didn't block yesterday it did not sure what to make of that :/
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?113359-MaxxMem2-DDR4-Ram-Scores


 Yeah, mbam did the same here. I'll check the link you posted! Thanks +1


Edit: Yeah - there's 2 trojans in the EXE and removing them before extracting will not allow the executable to decompress. Frankly, that trojan is new and the databses (both mbam and windows) were just updated for it. (I tried on both mbam and non-mbam machines)


----------



## munternet

If I change from 8700k to 9900ks it will obviously change the IMC.
Can I also expect a higher memory overclock?
Will it affect vccio and vccsa?
Will it affect uncore?

Motherboard is Maximus X Hero


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, mbam did the same here. I'll check the link you posted! Thanks +1
> 
> 
> Edit: Yeah - there's 2 trojans in the EXE and removing them before extracting will not allow the executable to decompress. Frankly, that trojan is new and the databses (both mbam and windows) were just updated for it. (I tried on both mbam and non-mbam machines)


I scanned it with Kaspersky virusdesk (and malwarebytes) and the file I have was clean.
(Dated 21 september 2019).

Scan result no threats detected File size 2.19 MB File type PE32/EXE Scan date Sep 28 2019 20:37:20 Databases release date Sep 29 2019 03:31:02 UTC MD5 b8a42d154ecfdbec7854cd304639ea1d SHA1 98a15474e4bc876737da1db938f400728871b601 SHA256 1813b4e60c884a940729d40ff8c37333c375f6d876047ad042b2df410cb8b8ab

Was it more recent versions?

*Edit* Just went on the website with malwarebytes running. Site wasn't blocked.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yeah likely a false positive 
Don't make much sense to block the website but not the file from running

The compare graph did mess up shortly after though maybe that was really defender doing that bit of blocking no telling.

Mod that created the thread at asus forum still hasn't responded to my report they had a nice spam attack in the general section yesterday morning lol


----------



## Koniakki

Don't you love the fact that sometimes it takes even months('cause sleep, work, school, IRL etc) to dial in and stabilize a nice ram OC *but *then once in a while your own hardware that you so much love, takes some pity on you and then you manage to attain a previously failed OC(okay okay, barely tried tbh) and semi-stabilize it in less than a day and on just your second memtest try? 

And this awesome thread ofcourse helped a lot in more than a few cases when needed. 

Was bit bored and thought to try a fine-tune/improve the oc a bit further. Any suggestions for subs/terts to try/change?


----------



## mouacyk

Koniakki said:


> Don't you love the fact that sometimes it takes even months('cause sleep, work, school, IRL etc) to dial in and stabilize a nice ram OC *but *then once in a while your own hardware that you so much love, takes some pity on you and then you manage to attain a previously failed OC(okay okay, barely tried tbh) and semi-stabilize it in less than a day and on just your second memtest try?
> 
> And this awesome thread ofcourse helped a lot in more than a few cases when needed.
> 
> Was bit bored and thought to try a fine-tune/improve the oc a bit further. Any suggestions for subs/terts to try/change?


16-17-17 or 16-16-16
which is it

still great for 32GB


----------



## Koniakki

mouacyk said:


> 16-17-17 or 16-16-16
> which is it
> 
> still great for 32GB


Oops, mixed the cachemem images. It's 16-17-17. brb  Also memtest was done with my daily 5g OC.
*/fixed*


lol, I thought I was editing my previous post but I was editing this one instead. guess I'm more sleepy that i thought. 

Any help on the timings would be awesome..


----------



## KedarWolf

Koniakki said:


> Don't you love the fact that sometimes it takes even months('cause sleep, work, school, IRL etc) to dial in and stabilize a nice ram OC *but *then once in a while your own hardware that you so much love, takes some pity on you and then you manage to attain a previously failed OC(okay okay, barely tried tbh) and semi-stabilize it in less than a day and on just your second memtest try?
> 
> And this awesome thread ofcourse helped a lot in more than a few cases when needed.
> 
> Was bit bored and thought to try a fine-tune/improve the oc a bit further. Any suggestions for subs/terts to try/change?


You probably don't want tREFI that high. while it helps in benchmarks it can lead to RAM errors, sometimes even BSODs. I usually keep it between 33066 and 43166.


----------



## mouacyk

KedarWolf said:


> You probably don't want tREFI that high. while it helps in benchmarks it can lead to RAM errors, sometimes even BSODs. I usually keep it between 33066 and 43166.


I wouldn't worry about it if you can test HCI up to 1,000% and/or RAMTest to 10,000%. I've compiled software for years with maxed tREFI on my current system without errors.


----------



## Koniakki

Those above are from 2 weeks ago and I honestly keep forgetting to change it every time..  I also run lower [email protected] or 16667 sometimes, probably more out of habit/OCD at this point than anything else when not benching or stress testing. Been running 4000C17 shown below for the last year.










@mouacyk But it's good to know about higher/st values as being ok as usually newer users or to ram timings at least, shy away from using high value or max tREFI. 

Yeah I will push for 4133 or straight 16's and see how it goes. Do any subs/terts that seem off? Those were mostly from settings/timings i had saved overtime or on top of my head irc.


Here's my previous 2dimm timings from a year ago when when I last tested them solo. 

Just sharing in case it helps anyone as quick/dirty guideline with the timings as many other who posts their have helped me. Especially the ones from @encrypted11's and @KedarWolf's

Had only up'ed the CAS from 16 to 17 just for them to look all nice and tidy. I also had lowered the voltage down to 1.42v with 1.14-15 IO and 1.19-1.20 SA irc.


----------



## lionc

I have two F4-4133C19D-16GTZKW sets for a total 4x8=32GB RAM on a Maximus X Hero. I know two sets aren't ideal but it's what I have. 

The behavior relating to Vdimm is quite strange. 
I can run 4000 CL17-18-18 at 1.42V and it is not quite stable (1 error in 8000% Karhu and occasional ingame crashes). When I increase the voltage to 1.45V the error rates go up massively. When I decrease the voltage error rates also go up. Vccio/SA readout is 1.21V/1.23V

Similarly I can run 4000 CL18-19-19 at 1.35V completely stable (16000%) but as soon as I increase the voltage to 1.375V it throws errors instantly (<30% Karhu) even when the modules are still cold (~35°C). 
Same setting on same voltages at 4133 is almost stable (again 1 error in 8000%). If I increase or decrease Vdimm I get errors.

How does this make sense, I thought B-die was supposed to scale well with voltage?

Here's the setting that's stable at only 1.35V but not 1.375V.


----------



## munternet

lionc said:


> I have two F4-4133C19D-16GTZKW sets for a total 4x8=32GB RAM on a Maximus X Hero. I know two sets aren't ideal but it's what I have.
> 
> The behavior relating to Vdimm is quite strange.
> I can run 4000 CL17-18-18 at 1.42V and it is not quite stable (1 error in 8000% Karhu and occasional ingame crashes). When I increase the voltage to 1.45V the error rates go up massively. When I decrease the voltage error rates also go up. Vccio/SA readout is 1.21V/1.23V
> 
> Similarly I can run 4000 CL18-19-19 at 1.35V completely stable (16000%) but as soon as I increase the voltage to 1.375V it throws errors instantly (<30% Karhu) even when the modules are still cold (~35°C).
> Same setting on same voltages at 4133 is almost stable (again 1 error in 8000%). If I increase or decrease Vdimm I get errors.
> 
> How does this make sense, I thought B-die was supposed to scale well with voltage?
> 
> Here's the setting that's stable at only 1.35V but not 1.375V.


I have almost exactly the same setup as you except 2 sets of G.Skill 4400.
Memory settings I have run for the last few months are
4200 17-18-18-39 I think....it also booted at 4500 but was unstable. Ran windows at 4400 but not stress tests.
Uncore 4700
Vdimm 1.44v
vccio 1.2250
vccsa 1.2375
All voltages threw errors if moved up or down.
Vdimm moved down with the frequency but the vccio and vccsa remained the same.
I found the 1803 bios overclocked better than the 1903 bios.
I am now working my way through the newest bios 20xx which includes performance enhancements apparently.

Not sure if any of this will help you but there it is


----------



## lionc

munternet said:


> I have almost exactly the same setup as you except 2 sets of G.Skill 4400.
> Memory settings I have run for the last few months are
> 4200 17-18-18-39 I think....it also booted at 4500 but was unstable. Ran windows at 4400 but not stress tests.
> Uncore 4700
> Vdimm 1.44v
> vccio 1.2250
> vccsa 1.2375
> All voltages threw errors if moved up or down.
> Vdimm moved down with the frequency but the vccio and vccsa remained the same.
> I found the 1803 bios overclocked better than the 1903 bios.
> I am now working my way through the newest bios 20xx which includes performance enhancements apparently.
> 
> Not sure if any of this will help you but there it is


Thanks, that's interesting. The key take away for me is that your voltages also became unstable from adjusting them in any direction.
I'm using the latest BIOS 2102 and currently run the settings my screenshot. Voltages from the top of my head are Vdimm 1.345V, VccIO 1.1100V, VccSA 1.1625V.

It feels like I'm leaving some performance on the table but this is truly stable and still offers better performance than XMP which performs worse, isn't stable and sets 1.45V SA/IO on auto.
I'll try your settings but my RAM is obviously much worse to begin with. These voltage "sweetspots" with zero tolerance are the strangest thing to me.


----------



## ViTosS

Koniakki said:


> Don't you love the fact that sometimes it takes even months('cause sleep, work, school, IRL etc) to dial in and stabilize a nice ram OC *but *then once in a while your own hardware that you so much love, takes some pity on you and then you manage to attain a previously failed OC(okay okay, barely tried tbh) and semi-stabilize it in less than a day and on just your second memtest try?
> 
> And this awesome thread ofcourse helped a lot in more than a few cases when needed.
> 
> Was bit bored and thought to try a fine-tune/improve the oc a bit further. Any suggestions for subs/terts to try/change?


You have almost the same timings that I use, I have 2x8GB 4000Mhz CL16-17-17-37 and tRFC 400, mine are originally B-Die [email protected], that MemTest you using in the desktop (not in BIOS booting from a pendrive) is the paid version?


----------



## Jpmboy

mouacyk said:


> I wouldn't worry about it if you can test HCI up to 1,000% and/or RAMTest to 10,000%. I've compiled software for years with maxed tREFI on my current system without errors.


It's not likely that an active or loaded system will have problems with max tREFI, things like stand-by, ramdisk (not sure about ram cache) or any suspend-to-ram like states may.


----------



## ViTosS

Can someone clarify this for me:

''An instance needs to be opened for each individual thread, covering a total of 90-95% of memory, giving the OS a little breathing room.

As an example i5 6600K - 8GB RAM

4 instances with 1750MB per instance.''

So I have a 8700k (6 threads) and 16GB RAM, so I would need 6 instances with 2666MB per instance, totalizing 16GB, but I need to reduce 10% of it, so 2400MB per instance? Is that right? Or can it be 2500MB?


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> Can someone clarify this for me:
> 
> ''An instance needs to be opened for each individual thread, covering a total of 90-95% of memory, giving the OS a little breathing room.
> 
> As an example i5 6600K - 8GB RAM
> 
> 4 instances with 1750MB per instance.''
> 
> So I have a 8700k (6 threads) and 16GB RAM, so I would need 6 instances with 2666MB per instance, totalizing 16GB, but I need to reduce 10% of it, so 2400MB per instance? Is that right? Or can it be 2500MB?


an 8700K has 6 cores and 12 threads.


----------



## ViTosS

Jpmboy said:


> an 8700K has 6 cores and 12 threads.


Oh I thought when he meant thread it was cores, I got myself in doubt because the 6600k used in the example has the same cores and threads (4), so I need 12 instances in my case...

I will set 1250MB for each 12 threads, resulting in 15GB and leaving 1GB for the OS, is that good?


----------



## munternet

lionc said:


> Thanks, that's interesting. The key take away for me is that your voltages also became unstable from adjusting them in any direction.
> I'm using the latest BIOS 2102 and currently run the settings my screenshot. Voltages from the top of my head are Vdimm 1.345V, VccIO 1.1100V, VccSA 1.1625V.
> 
> It feels like I'm leaving some performance on the table but this is truly stable and still offers better performance than XMP which performs worse, isn't stable and sets 1.45V SA/IO on auto.
> I'll try your settings but my RAM is obviously much worse to begin with. These voltage "sweetspots" with zero tolerance are the strangest thing to me.


I wouldn't say your ram is much worse, you never know....
What CPU do you have? Maybe you could do a "rig builder".
vccio and vccsa seem nice and low.


----------



## munternet

I have started using GSAT for testing stability just this week.
It found errors where HCI didn't find any.
I know there has been plenty of chat about the best testing tools but I was wondering what the current best, quickest way to test stability is?


----------



## lionc

munternet said:


> I wouldn't say your ram is much worse, you never know....
> What CPU do you have? Maybe you could do a "rig builder".
> vccio and vccsa seem nice and low.


The CPU is a 8700k. 5GHz, 4600 MHz cache. 
Thanks a lot for sharing your settings! I tried your voltages and bumped the frequency to 4200. Initially got an error at 200%, so I increased tREFI to account for the higher frequency and changed Vdimm to 1.45V, now it just passed >20000% stable over night. Trying 17-18-18 now, but I’ll probably settle with 18-19-19 unless this is also perfectly stable. 
Do you use any active cooling for your sticks? The two middle ones are touching 50 Celsius at this voltage.


----------



## munternet

lionc said:


> The CPU is a 8700k. 5GHz, 4600 MHz cache.
> Thanks a lot for sharing your settings! I tried your voltages and bumped the frequency to 4200. Initially got an error at 200%, so I increased tREFI to account for the higher frequency and changed Vdimm to 1.45V, now it just passed >20000% stable over night. Trying 17-18-18 now, but I’ll probably settle with 18-19-19 unless this is also perfectly stable.
> Do you use any active cooling for your sticks? The two middle ones are touching 50 Celsius at this voltage.


Good to hear 
Yes, I do run cooling. There is an image in my rig in my signature. I run mine at 1.44v and mid 30's temp when running 4200-17-18-18
I would suggest a fan at least because with 4 modules populating the board there isn't much room between the sticks.

Edit: I found 4700MHz cache gave me the highest memory overclock but yours may be different.


----------



## lionc

munternet said:


> Good to hear
> Yes, I do run cooling. There is an image in my rig in my signature. I run mine at 1.44v and mid 30's temp when running 4200-17-18-18
> I would suggest a fan at least because with 4 modules populating the board there isn't much room between the sticks.
> 
> Edit: I found 4700MHz cache gave me the highest memory overclock but yours may be different.


I will look into a small fan next summer if instability becomes an issue. Watercooled RAM seems ideal with this density but it isn’t an option for me.

4200-17-18-18 wasn’t stable but I’ve increased cache to 4700 (which used to give me WHEA errors previously) and even that is up to 1600% in Karhu now. I’ll have to see if it actually is stable though 16000%, HCI and GSAT. That would be a very impressive OC for these sticks considering hey are two separate sets and binned much lower than what they now run at. Fascinating how increasing cache frequency can stabilize a memory overclock with the right voltages. 
Again thanks a lot for sharing your settings and findings, without them I’d still be stuck at 4000-18-19-19 because I just don’t have the time to figure all the little details out myself.

edit: 1 error at 2100%, falling back to 4200-18-19-19 which is plenty for me.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> I have started using GSAT for testing stability just this week.
> It found errors where HCI didn't find any.
> I know there has been plenty of chat about the best testing tools but I was wondering what the current best, quickest way to test stability is?


GSAT imo. Especially when working with 32GB or more.


----------



## Falkentyne

Gigabyte said today that RTL's and IOL offsets change fine on their Z390 boards. But everyone here and in the Aorus thread claims they don't work. So...explanations?

https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/28441-gigabyte-beta-bios-1126.html#post512382


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> Gigabyte said today that RTL's and IOL offsets change fine on their Z390 boards. But everyone here and in the Aorus thread claims they don't work. So...explanations?
> 
> https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/28441-gigabyte-beta-bios-1126.html#post512382


Posted my findings on the Z390 Aorus owners thread.


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> GSAT imo. Especially when working with 32GB or more.


Thanks for the reply 

On another note, I just tried XMP on my Maximus X Hero for a laugh since the new bios and it boots and runs windows fine!!!
BUT ... check out the vccio and vccsa :O
Just off to put it back now 

Edit:
Currently running at 4500 19-19-19-39 and not blue screening, but I'm not going to bench it 
Really off to put it back now


----------



## lionc

munternet said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> On another note, I just tried XMP on my Maximus X Hero for a laugh since the new bios and it boots and runs windows fine!!!
> BUT ... check out the vccio and vccsa :O
> Just off to put it back now
> 
> Edit:
> Currently running at 4500 19-19-19-39 and not blue screening, but I'm not going to bench it
> Really off to put it back now


I get the same behavior, it simply maxes SA and IO to 1.4V and the rest is overshoot. Pretty crazy, I’m fairly sure a few people out there are running these voltages 24/7 and are oblivious to it because they trust XMP/auto. 

By the way I found that the settings you gave me are stable through 22000% Karhu and 6 hours of GSAT without errors but when I run AIDA64 with only cache and memory enabled (CPU disabled) it lasts less than 10 min. Think I’m going back to my old 4000 setting.


----------



## munternet

lionc said:


> I get the same behavior, it simply maxes SA and IO to 1.4V and the rest is overshoot. Pretty crazy, I’m fairly sure a few people out there are running these voltages 24/7 and are oblivious to it because they trust XMP/auto.
> 
> By the way I found that the settings you gave me are stable through 22000% Karhu and 6 hours of GSAT without errors but when I run AIDA64 with only cache and memory enabled (CPU disabled) it lasts less than 10 min. Think I’m going back to my old 4000 setting.


Maybe you could try dropping the cache clock?
That XMP at 4400MHz is only 4400 cache clock


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> On another note, I just tried XMP on my Maximus X Hero for a laugh since the new bios and it boots and runs windows fine!!!
> BUT ... check out the vccio and vccsa :O
> Just off to put it back now
> 
> Edit:
> Currently running at 4500 19-19-19-39 and not blue screening, but I'm not going to bench it
> Really off to put it back now


yeah - definitely set the vccio and vsa manually. The auto rules for these voltages scale based on a worst case scenario ram kit and CPU.


lionc said:


> I get the same behavior, it simply maxes SA and IO to 1.4V and the rest is overshoot. Pretty crazy, I’m fairly sure a few people out there are running these voltages 24/7 and are oblivious to it because they trust XMP/auto.
> 
> By the way I found that the settings you gave me are stable through 22000% Karhu and 6 hours of GSAT without errors *but when I run AIDA64 with only cache and memory enabled (CPU disabled) it lasts less than 10 min.* Think I’m going back to my old 4000 setting.


set cache to auto and enable ring bin down (or set to Auto) if the bios has it.


----------



## lionc

Jpmboy said:


> set cache to auto and enable ring bin down (or set to Auto) if the bios has it.


I did set cache to auto and so far it's 30 minutes in without errors. strange because i remember testing with cache set to 44x (=same as auto) in asus turbovcore but still getting errors. I assume losing 200Mhz on cache is a bit of a performance drop but if it's stable i'll gladly take it.


----------



## amd955be5670

Got my hands on some 32GB of Micron E-Die today (regional sale).
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=299696&thumb=1
The only things I changed are:
VCSSA : 1.250 -> 1.050
rRTFC : 560 -> 500
CR : 2N -> 1N

I was able to run tRFC at 350 on my previous 8GB x2 kit (Teampgroup, TPN cannot read dram chip), so I was able to score lower latency.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=299698&thumb=1

I couldn't post/stable with any rRFC lower than 500. Really hope I can get some juice out of these kits OC'd. Otherwise I'll just assume the Silicon Lottery Gods didn't choose me.


----------



## tistou77

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Ran into this on rog forum
> rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?113359-MaxxMem2-DDR4-Ram-Scores
> 
> Anyone care to compare it's latency results with aida64
> Mine are terrible like 61.4 on quad core 4k x299 :/


I posted on the topic 

It's true that there is a difference between Aida64 and this benchmark


----------



## ThrashZone

tistou77 said:


> I posted on the topic
> 
> It's true that there is a difference between Aida64 and this benchmark


Hi,
You must have missed to update that mbam blocks because of trogan website.


----------



## tistou77

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You must have missed to update that mbam blocks because of trogan website.


I took this version, it's not good ?

http://maxxpi2.de/pages/downloads/maxxmemsup2---download.php


----------



## ThrashZone

tistou77 said:


> I took this version, it's not good ?
> 
> http://maxxpi2.de/pages/downloads/maxxmemsup2---download.php


Hi,
Malwarebytes is still blocking the websites as having or serving trogans 
Too bad asus forum really have lazy moderators otherwise they might fix or remove the download link there until further notice.
Could just be a false positive no telling I'm too lazy to report it to mbam


----------



## tistou77

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Malwarebytes is still blocking the websites as having or serving trogans
> Too bad asus forum really have lazy moderators otherwise they might fix or remove the download link there until further notice.
> Could just be a false positive no telling I'm too lazy to report it to mbam


Aa ok, Kaspersky did not alert me when I downloaded the benchmark (or I did not understand )


----------



## ThrashZone

tistou77 said:


> Aa ok, Kaspersky did not alert me when I downloaded the benchmark (or I did not understand )


Hi,
Yep we need more feedback on the website for sure 
Wonder what eset has to say about it ?


----------



## lester007

I did a quick test on my ram, anything I can improve on? I have no idea on secondary timings or tertiary.
I just copy settings on this thread mashed them together lol.
Unlike amd they got ryzen calculator as baseline.  I do have ryzen system too, i tried 3800x and 3900x they were fine(I'll let them go later on).


----------



## JoeRambo

lester007 said:


> I did a quick test on my ram, anything I can improve on? I have no idea on secondary timings or tertiary.





Tertiary RDRD_sg and RDRD_dd could go to 6 instead of 7. That should improve read speeds if stable.


----------



## Silent Ex

Followed the memtesthelper on GitHub and got my gskill ram running at 4000 cl17 screenshot below. I tested it with karthu ram test see below. It been stable for a month and want to improve it some more. Was wondering wat else i could work on timing wise.


----------



## lester007

JoeRambo said:


> Tertiary RDRD_sg and RDRD_dd could go to 6 instead of 7. That should improve read speeds if stable.


Thanks I will give it a try.


----------



## underclocker78

hello guys can someone help me 
i have low copy speeds the kit is micron e-die and run on 3600 cl6 with 1.40v
any combination of mhz/cl/ and voltage always give me lower copy speeds than the reads and writes.


----------



## JoeRambo

underclocker78 said:


> any combination of mhz/cl/ and voltage always give me lower copy speeds than the reads and writes.



If primaries are sensible, then BW is governed mostly by secondaries/tertiaries (except REFI + RFC that impact effective latency by making RAM refresh less/more often for shorter/longer periods of time).


RRD_S could be 4 to align it with tFAW of 16 ( could start crashing, cause mobo is auto correcting tFAW to 24, since RRD_S is set to 6 now ).
How are WTR_L/S dialed in? They need to be on auto while lowering WRRD_sg/dg and dialed in after to resulting values.
RDRD_sg could go to 6.


And i think main culprit could be RTP, but i have zero experience with non B-Dies, so no idea what are the requirements for this DRAM.


----------



## underclocker78

JoeRambo said:


> If primaries are sensible, then BW is governed mostly by secondaries/tertiaries (except REFI + RFC that impact effective latency by making RAM refresh less/more often for shorter/longer periods of time).
> 
> 
> RRD_S could be 4 to align it with tFAW of 16 ( could start crashing, cause mobo is auto correcting tFAW to 24, since RRD_S is set to 6 now ).
> How are WTR_L/S dialed in? They need to be on auto while lowering WRRD_sg/dg and dialed in after to resulting values.
> RDRD_sg could go to 6.
> 
> 
> And i think main culprit could be RTP, but i have zero experience with non B-Dies, so no idea what are the requirements for this DRAM.


thank you for the quick responce the WTR_L/S is on auto and i control them with the WRRD_sg/dg , i try to tweek trtp and the other timings and i see how it goes


----------



## Dasboogieman

underclocker78 said:


> hello guys can someone help me
> i have low copy speeds the kit is micron e-die and run on 3600 cl6 with 1.40v
> any combination of mhz/cl/ and voltage always give me lower copy speeds than the reads and writes.


Most of the higher copy speed benchmarks come from dual rank per channel setups or extremely high frequency OCs (like we're talking north of 4000 with tight latencies). This is because the IMC can burst interleave reads and writes faster between alternate banks at speeds not possible with single rank per channel at a given frequency.

My copy speed is usually 51200 MB/s with all 4 of my B die single rank kits in running at 3600 CL 14 15 15 36. However, it drops to 48000 MB/s when I remove 2 of them at the exact same speeds.


----------



## lionc

Jpmboy said:


> set cache to auto and enable ring bin down (or set to Auto) if the bios has it.



just to follow up, still crashing with cache set to auto. same with cache set to 42x. I think it's a IMC issue because when i drop the RAM to 4000 it becomes stable even with 46x cache.


----------



## JoeRambo

Dasboogieman said:


> Most of the higher copy speed benchmarks come from dual rank per channel setups or extremely high frequency OCs (like we're talking north of 4000 with tight latencies). This is because the IMC can burst interleave reads and writes faster between alternate banks at speeds not possible with single rank per channel at a given frequency.
> 
> My copy speed is usually 51200 MB/s with all 4 of my B die single rank kits in running at 3600 CL 14 15 15 36. However, it drops to 48000 MB/s when I remove 2 of them at the exact same speeds.


Correct, i had 3200CL13 setup with dual ranked, that also was able to run RDRD_DR @ 5.
It used to get read speeds within 200MB/s of theoretical @3200 speed or so. With RDRD_DR @ 6 it dropped like 400MB and single ranked DIMMs could not even approach such crazy bw efficiency.

Except of course it got destroyed by 3733CL15 4x single rank setup i am running now.


----------



## underclocker78

Dasboogieman said:


> Most of the higher copy speed benchmarks come from dual rank per channel setups or extremely high frequency OCs (like we're talking north of 4000 with tight latencies). This is because the IMC can burst interleave reads and writes faster between alternate banks at speeds not possible with single rank per channel at a given frequency.
> 
> My copy speed is usually 51200 MB/s with all 4 of my B die single rank kits in running at 3600 CL 14 15 15 36. However, it drops to 48000 MB/s when I remove 2 of them at the exact same speeds.


I am just confused because I see a lot of benchmark scores with AMD Ryzen cpus and all them have a better copys than me on the same frequency. 
Anyway thank you for the answer


----------



## Jpmboy

lionc said:


> just to follow up, still crashing with cache set to auto. same with cache set to 42x. I think it's a IMC issue because when i drop the RAM to 4000 it becomes stable even with 46x cache.


yeah - may be the IMC. Depends on the crash or error type. GSAT does describe the error type when it catches one (cpu or ram origin). Try using GSAT toi see if it sheds any light on the problem?


----------



## Falkentyne

lionc said:


> just to follow up, still crashing with cache set to auto. same with cache set to 42x. I think it's a IMC issue because when i drop the RAM to 4000 it becomes stable even with 46x cache.


Raise VCCIO.
IO also controls the L3 cache.


----------



## ViTosS

I'm 100% stable in MemTest86 at [email protected] and tRFC 400, voltage is 1.43v and IO/SA is 1.15v both, but no matter what I change I can't have the same stability in HCI MemTest (the one you need to open instances, in my case is 12), after 40min running I have one error in just one instance, I tried increasing voltage DRAM to 1.44v and also IO/SA to 1.20v without success... I guess I will stick with my MemTest86 stable, I didn't have any problem during games, nothing weird, crashes or instability...


----------



## GRABibus

ViTosS said:


> I'm 100% stable in MemTest86 at [email protected] and tRFC 400, voltage is 1.43v and IO/SA is 1.15v both, but no matter what I change I can't have the same stability in HCI MemTest (the one you need to open instances, in my case is 12), after 40min running I have one error in just one instance, I tried increasing voltage DRAM to 1.44v and also IO/SA to 1.20v without success... I guess I will stick with my MemTest86 stable, I didn't have any problem during games, nothing weird, crashes or instability...


But it means you are unstable...
Try increasing timings


----------



## ViTosS

GRABibus said:


> But it means you are unstable...
> Try increasing timings


Yeah I'm unstable in that benchmark specific... But what would this instability cause in games? Like the usual effects? Stuttering? Crashes? Bad performance?


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> I'm 100% stable in MemTest86 at [email protected] and tRFC 400, voltage is 1.43v and IO/SA is 1.15v both, but no matter what I change I can't have the same stability in HCI MemTest (the one you need to open instances, in my case is 12), after 40min running I have one error in just one instance, I tried increasing voltage DRAM to 1.44v and also IO/SA to 1.20v without success... I guess I will stick with my MemTest86 stable, I didn't have any problem during games, nothing weird, crashes or instability...


IO and SA seem very low compared to mine with similar hardware. I'm closer to 1.23 for best results.


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> Yeah I'm unstable in that benchmark specific... But what would this instability cause in games? Like the usual effects? Stuttering? Crashes? Bad performance?


or bump ram-related voltages a notch (VSA, VCCIO, VDIMM) and test again in HCi or gsat. monitor the ram stick temps if they have a DTS. Temps above 40C can throw a bit flip now and then.


----------



## mouacyk

ViTosS said:


> Yeah I'm unstable in that benchmark specific... But what would this instability cause in games? Like the usual effects? Stuttering? Crashes? Bad performance?


OS corruption over time *gasp*


----------



## Exilon

Upgraded memory from 4x1R 8GB 3466CL16 to 4x1R 8GB 4133CL18










Eventually settled on 3800CL15 at 1.5V

Before









After









Before


> Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.5
> Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
> Memory node
> Socket 0
> 0 39.1
> 
> Measuring Peak Injection Memory Bandwidths for the system
> Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
> Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
> Using traffic with the following read-write ratios
> ALL Reads : 46037.3
> 3:1 Reads-Writes : 40334.3
> 2:1 Reads-Writes : 39420.7
> 1:1 Reads-Writes : 38853.8
> Stream-triad like: 39793.5


After


> Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.5
> Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
> Memory node
> Socket 0
> 0 35.2
> 
> Measuring Peak Injection Memory Bandwidths for the system
> Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
> Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
> Using traffic with the following read-write ratios
> ALL Reads : 51749.1
> 3:1 Reads-Writes : 46836.0
> 2:1 Reads-Writes : 46237.5
> 1:1 Reads-Writes : 45308.6
> Stream-triad like: 45357.0



Total War Warhammer II - Too lazy to turn Gsync off, but you can see the difference when not capped









Grab Intel Memory Latency Checker and let me know how I did. 
https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intelr-memory-latency-checker

Run as admin so it can disable the prefetcher for accurate measurements.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> IO and SA seem very low compared to mine with similar hardware. I'm closer to 1.23 for best results.





Jpmboy said:


> or bump ram-related voltages a notch (VSA, VCCIO, VDIMM) and test again in HCi or gsat. monitor the ram stick temps if they have a DTS. Temps above 40C can throw a bit flip now and then.





mouacyk said:


> OS corruption over time *gasp*


I was able to pass 500% HCI MemTest now that I changed voltage from 1.43 to 1.45 and also IO/SA from 1.15 to 1.20 in BIOS, I also changed CL from 16 to 17, the rest is the same, now I will run again the MemTest86 and see if I will still be stable there too...


----------



## GRABibus

I am currently testing my 32GB (4x8GB) gskill trident Z CL14 3200MHz at 3400MHz.
I never went beyond 3200MHz as I preferred lowering timings (see my stable RAM OC in sig, tested with HCI 1000% minimum on each thread, 3200MHz 13-14-13-34-250-1T)

Currently, HCI is running since 3 hours without errors with following settings 
3400MHz
14-15-14-34-250-1T
Vccin=1,808V
Vdimm=1,41V
Vccsa = 0,8V
Vccin=1,048V

Crossing fingers it will pass 1000%. Test will finish in 6 hours roughly (9 hours in total).


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> I was able to pass 500% HCI MemTest now that I changed voltage from 1.43 to 1.45 and also IO/SA from 1.15 to 1.20 in BIOS, I also changed CL from 16 to 17, the rest is the same, now I will run again the MemTest86 and see if I will still be stable there too...


is HWInfo reporting DIMM Temperature?


----------



## chibi

Jpmboy said:


> is HWInfo reporting DIMM Temperature?



I wonder where HWInfo is getting the reading from. When I was last in my BIOS, there was no dimm temp nor is it in Aida64. How accurate is the HWInfo reading I wonder.


----------



## Jpmboy

chibi said:


> I wonder where HWInfo is getting the reading from. When I was last in my BIOS, there was no dimm temp nor is it in Aida64. How accurate is the HWInfo reading I wonder.


 If the sticks have a DTS, HWi will read it. in aid64 you may need to enable "DIMM thermal sensor support" under Stability in preferences. Bios may not have the sensor reading at all.
SIV64 also has dimm dts readout:


----------



## ViTosS

Jpmboy said:


> is HWInfo reporting DIMM Temperature?


Yes it is, they reach max of 45ºC, it's because in my country is really hot so the ambient temp isn't the best here in my room, but not for my surprise, the same settings in BIOS that made me stable in HCI 500% failed in MemTest86 at the very end of the test (like 2h of it running), so I think I will just back to 1.43v DRAM, 1.15 IO/SA and 16-17-17-37 (that I am stable MemTest86 at these settings but not at 500% HCI) and live like this. Even knowing it's not stable at 500% HCI, I don't think I can get the stability in both HCI and MemTest86 at the same time...


----------



## chibi

Jpmboy said:


> If the sticks have a DTS, HWi will read it. in aid64 you may need to enable "DIMM thermal sensor support" under Stability in preferences. Bios may not have the sensor reading at all.
> SIV64 also has dimm dts readout:



JP saves the day again, can't count the times you've come through with my questions over the years. Thanks brotha! :cheers:



ViTosS said:


> Yes it is, they reach max of 45ºC, it's because in my country is really hot so the ambient temp isn't the best here in my room, but not for my surprise, the same settings in BIOS that made me stable in HCI 500% failed in MemTest86 at the very end of the test (like 2h of it running), so I think I will just back to 1.43v DRAM, 1.15 IO/SA and 16-17-17-37 (that I am stable MemTest86 at these settings but not at 500% HCI) and live like this. Even knowing it's not stable at 500% HCI, I don't think I can get the stability in both HCI and MemTest86 at the same time...



Can you try to zip tie a fan and point it towards the ram? See if that can help with the temps. :thumb:


----------



## ViTosS

chibi said:


> JP saves the day again, can't count the times you've come through with my questions over the years. Thanks brotha! :cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you try to zip tie a fan and point it towards the ram? See if that can help with the temps. :thumb:


The only fan I have is the on the top, two Corsair ML120 exausting the air, maybe if I set them pushing air from outside would help, but I think the GPU would get hotter and the only exaust fan would be the back one. But I think if a small fan exists, like I saw one one time you plug it to the 3-pin and it has like an elastic arm with the little fan on top, where you can shape the arm to set the fan in the direction you want, but I don't know where I can buy one of those.


----------



## Falkentyne

GRABibus said:


> I am currently testing my 32GB (4x8GB) gskill trident Z CL14 3200MHz at 3400MHz.
> I never went beyond 3200MHz as I preferred lowering timings (see my stable RAM OC in sig, tested with HCI 1000% minimum on each thread, 3200MHz 13-14-13-34-250-1T)
> 
> Currently, HCI is running since 3 hours without errors with following settings
> 3400MHz
> 14-15-14-34-250-1T
> Vccin=1,808V
> Vdimm=1,41V
> Vccsa = 0,8V
> Vccin=1,048V
> 
> Crossing fingers it will pass 1000%. Test will finish in 6 hours roughly (9 hours in total).


So, what happened?


----------



## Exilon

DDR4 training is so whack.

About 10% of the time RTL and IO-L on one channel goes way higher than required. Clamping them to good values drops another couple of cycles off of memory access



> Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.5
> Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
> Memory node
> Socket 0
> 0 34.5


Doesn't show any signs of instability...

What VCCIO are people running for 4DIMM 1R?


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> Yes it is, *they reach max of 45ºC*, it's because in my country is really hot so the ambient temp isn't the best here in my room, but not for my surprise, the same settings in BIOS that made me stable in HCI 500% failed in MemTest86 at the very end of the test (like 2h of it running), so I think I will just back to 1.43v DRAM, 1.15 IO/SA and 16-17-17-37 (that I am stable MemTest86 at these settings but not at 500% HCI) and live like this. Even knowing it's not stable at 500% HCI, I don't think I can get the stability in both HCI and MemTest86 at the same time...


yeah, at 45C you may see that kind of inconsistency between tests (HCi, memtest etc). try to keep the temps below 40C during the test(s). Normal use will not hit those temps, so do what ever you can to keep 'em cool during memtest or any other stressor.


chibi said:


> JP saves the day again, can't count the times you've come through with my questions over the years. Thanks brotha! :cheers:
> Can you try to zip tie a fan and point it towards the ram? See if that can help with the temps. :thumb:





Exilon said:


> DDR4 training is so whack.
> About 10% of the time RTL and IO-L on one channel goes way higher than required. Clamping them to good values drops another couple of cycles off of memory access
> Doesn't show any signs of instability...
> *What VCCIO are people running for 4DIMM 1R*?


 on what board/platform?


_____________


Q for Chibi!


----------



## GRABibus

Falkentyne said:


> So, what happened?


It passed !
I will do now 8 hours Realbench stress test just to confirm globally the OC with CPU.


----------



## Hydroplane

I guess I should get around to buying some replacement b-die... my X299 has been dual channel for long enough lol. Any good ones to try other than 3200c14? (have two sets of it, want to try something different)


----------



## Exilon

Jpmboy said:


> on what board/platform?


Right. Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7



Hydroplane said:


> I guess I should get around to buying some replacement b-die... my X299 has been dual channel for long enough lol. Any good ones to try other than 3200c14? (have two sets of it, want to try something different)


I got a pair of these a few days ago

https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-T-Force-4133MHz-PC4-33000-Desktop/dp/B07Q1HS7BB

Couldn't boot the XMP profile with 4x1R out of the box on Z370 Gaming 7, but it's now running stable at 3900 15-15-15-32-2T @ 1.5V

Dropped latency as measured by Intel MLC from ~40ns (3466 16-18-18) to ~34.5ns

Pleasantly surprised. I was expecting to have to pay more for >4000 b-die


----------



## chibi

Hydroplane said:


> I guess I should get around to buying some replacement b-die... my X299 has been dual channel for long enough lol. Any good ones to try other than 3200c14? (have two sets of it, want to try something different)



This kit is really good, 4x 8GB 3600 C16. G.SKILL Sku: F4-3600C16Q-32GTRSU. :thumb:


----------



## Hydroplane

chibi said:


> This kit is really good, 4x 8GB 3600 C16. G.SKILL Sku: F4-3600C16Q-32GTRSU. :thumb:



What kind of clocks you hitting? Nice NERV logo lol


----------



## Pepillo

With the new 2002 bios compatible with Cascade Lake X I have taken the surprise that I can boot the memory to 4.000 Mhz. Until now, I couldn't, I couldn't even boot the bios. I'm not going to break any records, but I'm very happy to have gotten the 4.000 Mhz of my 4x8 Kit 3.200. I currently value a "light" and silence overclock on the radiator fans, with moderate voltages, so the 7900X at 4.600 Mhz, the 2080 TI at 2.025 Mhz, and the Ram at 4.000 Mhz is a round result for me:


----------



## Jpmboy

Exilon said:


> Right. Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7


vccio and vsa up to 1.25 is routine. Higher is "not uncommon". 





Hydroplane said:


> What kind of clocks you hitting? Nice NERV logo lol


 as chibi posted, the 3600c16 8GB stick-kits are very solid performers. I mixed 2 4x8GB kits on the R6EO and the ram was rock solid stable at 4200c17 with 1.5V. I plugged one kit in to the Apex VI and it runs 4000c16 easy (1.45V). I currently have 2 2x8GB 3600c15 gskill kits back on the Apex VI (which have been there since the platform launched), they run 4000c16 the same (maybe tighter secondaries, but I did not spend any real time with the 3600c16s on the Apex). Frankly, the 3200c14s and 3600c16 are the same ICs. the 3600c15s are a higher bin IC.
I'd go with the 3600c16s or try to push the 3200c14s to 4000 (most will).


----------



## SgtRotty

ViTosS said:


> chibi said:
> 
> 
> 
> JP saves the day again, can't count the times you've come through with my questions over the years. Thanks brotha! /forum/images/smilies/cheers.gif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you try to zip tie a fan and point it towards the ram? See if that can help with the temps. /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
> 
> 
> 
> The only fan I have is the on the top, two Corsair ML120 exausting the air, maybe if I set them pushing air from outside would help, but I think the GPU would get hotter and the only exaust fan would be the back one. But I think if a small fan exists, like I saw one one time you plug it to the 3-pin and it has like an elastic arm with the little fan on top, where you can shape the arm to set the fan in the direction you want, but I don't know where I can buy one of those.
Click to expand...

Antec spot cooler

https://www.newegg.com/p/0VE-006P-0...fUsY7MUmxeeV6yLkj9D2Xm5aSiI-bziUaAsCFEALw_wcB


----------



## KCDC

Looks like I can get 3400 on this 3200 CL14 64GB Royal kit (4x F4-3200C14-16GTRS sticks) without having to change timings. 1.35v IO/SA 1.15v, haven't tried turning those down at this speed. Any time I try 3600 with higher voltage and higher timings I can't post to BIOS and have to reflash. I've gone as high as 1.45v and up to 17 17 17 38. Guessing it may be due to the capacity being so high or maybe IO/SA too low, timings are wrong, or I just don't know enough to OC higher. I was getting tired of reflashing. I'm just happy I can OC 64GB at all! Not 100% validated since I haven't done an extended overnight memory test yet, but so far games and DCC software have been running fine with slight speed improvements overall.


----------



## Exilon

Jpmboy said:


> vccio and vsa up to 1.25 is routine. Higher is "not uncommon".


Oh well, setting VCCIO it at 1.3v and forgetting it.


----------



## Hydroplane

Jpmboy said:


> vccio and vsa up to 1.25 is routine. Higher is "not uncommon".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as chibi posted, the 3600c16 8GB stick-kits are very solid performers. I mixed 2 4x8GB kits on the R6EO and the ram was rock solid stable at 4200c17 with 1.5V. I plugged one kit in to the Apex VI and it runs 4000c16 easy (1.45V). I currently have 2 2x8GB 3600c15 gskill kits back on the Apex VI (which have been there since the platform launched), they run 4000c16 the same (maybe tighter secondaries, but I did not spend any real time with the 3600c16s on the Apex). Frankly, the 3200c14s and 3600c16 are the same ICs. the 3600c15s are a higher bin IC.
> I'd go with the 3600c16s or try to push the 3200c14s to 4000 (most will).


My 3200c14 are already at (or past) 4000  Problem is I need 6 sticks total and I own 4. I had to RMA my Z390 kit (think it was 4400c19?) due to a bad stick. Borrowed a pair of 3200c14 from my X299 and never got around to buying a replacement set. So I have been on dual channel over there and missing half my bandwidth which I'd like to fix, lol

The 3600c15 looks like a solid choice... only $165 on the Egg

Or maybe 4000c17 1.35V diamond encrusted? Only $100 more lol

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232771


----------



## Jpmboy

Hydroplane said:


> My 3200c14 are already at (or past) 4000  Problem is I need 6 sticks total and I own 4. I had to RMA my Z390 kit (think it was 4400c19?) due to a bad stick. Borrowed a pair of 3200c14 from my X299 and never got around to buying a replacement set. So I have been on dual channel over there and missing half my bandwidth which I'd like to fix, lol
> 
> The 3600c15 looks like a solid choice... only $165 on the Egg
> 
> Or maybe 4000c17 1.35V diamond encrusted? Only $100 more lol
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232771



decisions, decisions...


----------



## chibi

I have a 4600C18 TZ Royal kit sitting in the box here. Not decided yet if I want to use it in my next build, or wait for the 4800C18 to come back in stock. Anyone have working experience between the two, and is the 4800 kit worth the extra $$$?

I'm going to be aiming for 4600C16 1T paired with a 9900KS and Gene / Apex XI once the CPU is released.


----------



## Hydroplane

Pepillo said:


> With the new 2002 bios compatible with Cascade Lake X I have taken the surprise that I can boot the memory to 4.000 Mhz. Until now, I couldn't, I couldn't even boot the bios. I'm not going to break any records, but I'm very happy to have gotten the 4.000 Mhz of my 4x8 Kit 3.200. I currently value a "light" and silence overclock on the radiator fans, with moderate voltages, so the 7900X at 4.600 Mhz, the 2080 TI at 2.025 Mhz, and the Ram at 4.000 Mhz is a round result for me:


Nice results, have the same issue on mine where 3800 is great but 4000 does not boot at all, might try 2002 on my Apex and see what it does


----------



## Jpmboy

KCDC said:


> Looks like I can get 3400 on this 3200 CL14 64GB Royal kit (4x F4-3200C14-16GTRS sticks) without having to change timings. 1.35v IO/SA 1.15v, haven't tried turning those down at this speed. Any time I try 3600 with higher voltage and higher timings I can't post to BIOS and have to reflash. I've gone as high as 1.45v and up to 17 17 17 38. Guessing it may be due to the capacity being so high or maybe IO/SA too low, timings are wrong, or I just don't know enough to OC higher. I was getting tired of reflashing. I'm just happy I can OC 64GB at all! Not 100% validated since I haven't done an extended overnight memory test yet, but so far games and DCC software have been running fine with slight speed improvements overall.


why are you reflashing the bios (really)? Just hold down the start button for 5 sec (until it powers down) it will enter bios is "safe mode" which is a temp loading of the defaults. Adjust timings (loosen for 3600 to 16-18-18-44-2T) set 1.4V, all other timings at auto and it should boot. leave vsa at 1V or lower for x299 and vccio at 1.05 to 1.15V


----------



## Pepillo

Hydroplane said:


> Nice results, have the same issue on mine where 3800 is great but 4000 does not boot at all, might try 2002 on my Apex and see what it does


2002 t's a very good bios. Stable, memory allows for more overclocking, and solves the problems that had previous bios with virtualization, Windows Sandbox works without problems, which did not happen with the previous ones. I recommend upgrading.


----------



## bxcounter

Little bit of voltage hunting via GSAT timer (time to error).
Damn you VPP


----------



## ThrashZone

KCDC said:


> Looks like I can get 3400 on this 3200 CL14 64GB Royal kit (4x F4-3200C14-16GTRS sticks) without having to change timings. 1.35v IO/SA 1.15v, haven't tried turning those down at this speed. Any time I try 3600 with higher voltage and higher timings I can't post to BIOS and have to reflash. I've gone as high as 1.45v and up to 17 17 17 38. Guessing it may be due to the capacity being so high or maybe IO/SA too low, timings are wrong, or I just don't know enough to OC higher. I was getting tired of reflashing. I'm just happy I can OC 64GB at all! Not 100% validated since I haven't done an extended overnight memory test yet, but so far games and DCC software have been running fine with slight speed improvements overall.





Jpmboy said:


> why are you reflashing the bios (really)? Just hold down the start button for 5 sec (until it powers down) it will enter bios is "safe mode" which is a temp loading of the defaults. Adjust timings (loosen for 3600 to 16-18-18-44-2T) set 1.4V, all other timings at auto and it should boot. leave vsa at 1V or lower for x299 and vccio at 1.05 to 1.15V


Hi,
Wow pretty drastic timing changes :/

Most I would think for that little bit of a jump would be 14-15-14-36 1.4v max for 3400 or shoot for 3600
DRAM CAS# Latency [16]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# PRE Time [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [36]
DRAM Command Rate [Timing 1T]

DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [374]
DRAM Refresh Interval [28076]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [Auto]

DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [24]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [5]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [14]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [Auto] 9
DRAM Write Latency [Auto] 14

CPU Input Voltage [1.930]
DRAM Voltage(CHA, CHB) [1.3900]
DRAM Voltage(CHC, CHD) [1.3900]

CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.06250]
CPU System Agent Voltage [0.93500]
PCH Core Voltage [1.01250]


----------



## KCDC

Jpmboy said:


> why are you reflashing the bios (really)? Just hold down the start button for 5 sec (until it powers down) it will enter bios is "safe mode" which is a temp loading of the defaults. Adjust timings (loosen for 3600 to 16-18-18-44-2T) set 1.4V, all other timings at auto and it should boot. leave vsa at 1V or lower for x299 and vccio at 1.05 to 1.15V



To be honest, I didn't know I could do that power safe mode. I'll give those settings a shot and see what happens, thanks.


----------



## Intrud3r

Situation:
Running 3200Mhz memory at 4000Mhz. (it's rated at 16-18-18-38-560 @ 1.350V XMP)
I've ran multiple HCI Memtest runs at CL16-22-22 with up to 500% and 2000%. No errors.

Now comes my question:
Games crash when I run CL16 / CL17 (all other settings unchanged). I only manage to keep rolling when I use 18-22-22. Don't really care about that, but WHY do games crash when my memtest runs flawlessly ? (at cl16/17)

I've tried upping VCCIO / VCCSA until about 1.300V (io a little lower, sa a little higher), didn't help at all. A little more Core voltage, just in case ... didn't help. Lowered uncore ratio from 47 --> 46, didn't help.
I've tried all kinds of combinations of VCCIO / VCCSA ... didn't help.

Ok ... maybe my memory modules don't wanna run at bla bla .... but why does the memtest show no errors ? I just don't understand that.


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> Situation:
> Running 3200Mhz memory at 4000Mhz. (it's rated at 16-18-18-38-560 @ 1.350V XMP)
> I've ran multiple HCI Memtest runs at CL16-22-22 with up to 500% and 2000%. No errors.
> 
> Now comes my question:
> Games crash when I run CL16 / CL17 (all other settings unchanged). I only manage to keep rolling when I use 18-22-22. Don't really care about that, but WHY do games crash when my memtest runs flawlessly ? (at cl16/17)
> 
> I've tried upping VCCIO / VCCSA until about 1.300V (io a little lower, sa a little higher), didn't help at all. A little more Core voltage, just in case ... didn't help. Lowered uncore ratio from 47 --> 46, didn't help.
> I've tried all kinds of combinations of VCCIO / VCCSA ... didn't help.
> 
> Ok ... maybe my memory modules don't wanna run at bla bla .... but why does the memtest show no errors ? I just don't understand that.


Raise TRDWR four settings to 15/15/15/15 does that help?
Do you get any corrected WHEA errors in HWinfo64? (very specifically CPU Cache L0?)
What happens when you disable hyperthreading?
And finally:

Did you pass GSAT with these settings? (yes im aware that booting Linux is annoying). What about Karhu ramtest ?


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> Raise TRDWR four settings to 15/15/15/15 does that help?
> Do you get any corrected WHEA errors in HWinfo64? (very specifically CPU Cache L0?)
> What happens when you disable hyperthreading?
> And finally:
> 
> Did you pass GSAT with these settings? (yes im aware that booting Linux is annoying). What about Karhu ramtest ?


I've once tried higher TRDWR settings like 15, but that was with different secondary and tertiary settings (which were not running well so to say).

I'll try that with CL17 and see what it does ... 4x15 and CL17, rest unchanged ... will keep you informed.

Forgot to mention, no events in event viewer whatsoever after a game crash. Nor does HWiNFO show anything under WHEA errors. Sometimes it would drop me to the desktop without any error messages, sometimes it would just totally freeze (most of the times screens going black, sound mostly still runs nicely)

Haven't tried disabling hyperthreading, but as my cpu oc seems stable as my gpu oc seems stable it didn't come up in my brain.

I'm using AIDA (I know it's crap) for first impressions, if it crashes within 1 min don't even try hci memtest. I'm running that memtest that kedarwolf made a script for which opens all 16 threads. Assuming that should be enough. Have not tried GSAT nor karhu.

Let's see how this goes:


----------



## Intrud3r

It's still early ... but hell ... Anno 1800 is still running ... (somehow this game shows me memory errors way before anything else, it will just crash at startup when something is not right. Battlefield will just run till it freezes or what not)

I went as low as 10-10-10-10 on those 4 values, but never thought (once, which crashed cause of other settings) to actually try higher then 13 which it defaults to (at 3200)

Uhuhm ...

Couldn't resist and try CL16 ... so ... Anno started up nicely and is still running. Gonna try a couple of rounds of battlefield 5 after a couple of more minutes.


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> I've once tried higher TRDWR settings like 15, but that was with different secondary and tertiary settings (which were not running well so to say).
> 
> I'll try that with CL17 and see what it does ... 4x15 and CL17, rest unchanged ... will keep you informed.
> 
> Forgot to mention, no events in event viewer whatsoever after a game crash. Nor does HWiNFO show anything under WHEA errors. Sometimes it would drop me to the desktop without any error messages, sometimes it would just totally freeze (most of the times screens going black, sound mostly still runs nicely)
> 
> Haven't tried disabling hyperthreading, but as my cpu oc seems stable as my gpu oc seems stable it didn't come up in my brain.
> 
> I'm using AIDA (I know it's crap) for first impressions, if it crashes within 1 min don't even try hci memtest. I'm running that memtest that kedarwolf made a script for which opens all 16 threads. Assuming that should be enough. Have not tried GSAT nor karhu.
> 
> Let's see how this goes:


 @Jpmboy will help you with Gsat.
It and Karhu ramtest (paid unfortunately) can find errors that HCI won't find at all.
Thats why HCI isn't recommended all the time. It doesn't stress enough.

Gsat requires a USB flash drive to boot to Ubuntu.

Games crashing like that (CTD, random app errors) are always RAM related. Only thing that helps is VCCIO/SA, DDRV (up to a point) or reducing timings or frequency.

Have you tried Prime95?
Prime95 can quickly find IMC related errors, unfortunately in some cases, higher core voltage may make them go away, or higher VCCIO (L3 cache voltage).
The newest prime95 is much better with RAM/IMC errors than old obsolete versions like 26.6 or 28.4.

Try the following in prime95 29.8 build 6:
AVX/AVX2 disabled.
click Small FFT preset-->> Custom 
Range: 112k - 384K (in-place)

If you get a core crashing with AVX disabled, you know it's the IMC/L3 flaking out.

Then try:
Blend preset->Custom
Range: 512K-8192K
AVX/AVX2 disabled
RAM to test (half of system memory in Mbytes, e.g. 8192 MB=8 GB. In place disabled).

Report back the results.

(This is why sane people only do RAM testing overnight or if they have two computers).


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> @Jpmboy will help you with Gsat.
> It and Karhu ramtest (paid unfortunately) can find errors that HCI won't find at all.
> Thats why HCI isn't recommended all the time. It doesn't stress enough.
> 
> Gsat requires a USB flash drive to boot to Ubuntu.
> 
> Games crashing like that (CTD, random app errors) are always RAM related. Only thing that helps is VCCIO/SA, DDRV (up to a point) or reducing timings or frequency.
> 
> Have you tried Prime95?
> Prime95 can quickly find IMC related errors, unfortunately in some cases, higher core voltage may make them go away, or higher VCCIO (L3 cache voltage).
> The newest prime95 is much better with RAM/IMC errors than old obsolete versions like 26.6 or 28.4.
> 
> Try the following in prime95 29.8 build 6:
> AVX/AVX2 disabled.
> click Small FFT preset-->> Custom
> Range: 112k - 384K (in-place)
> 
> If you get a core crashing with AVX disabled, you know it's the IMC/L3 flaking out.
> 
> Then try:
> Blend preset->Custom
> Range: 512K-8192K
> AVX/AVX2 disabled
> RAM to test (half of system memory in Mbytes, e.g. 8192 MB=8 GB. In place disabled).
> 
> Report back the results.
> 
> (This is why sane people only do RAM testing overnight or if they have two computers).


See my above post for edit. Running CL16 now with 15-15-15-15. Seems to work till now as it should've crashed now ?!?

Anyways about prime ... I've ran prime on this cpu more then I would like to admit ... so 5.0 / 4.7 at DVID = +0.120V is stable ... OR ... do you mean in combination with my current memory settings? I've not tried that yet ...

Anno just crashed at CL16, funny thing tho ... my video was still playing nicely so only my game crashed now instead of the fact that all my screens went black.

Rebooted, upped VCCIO and VCCSA for 0.020V and trying again.


----------



## Intrud3r

11:22 AM
Btw ... Thank you for helping  @Falkentyne

Meh ... CL16 keeps crashing even after upping VCCIO/VCCSA.
Back to CL17 and testing again.


Edit: (current time)
CL17 still running ... curious I am.

To give some idea, with the game running and a video running in the background with lots of crap in the background.

13.2 GB / 32 GB

Can't really say anything ... but this bodes well ...
Anno is still running without any hickups ... CL17 ... formerly unachievable.
Gonna try a couple of rounds of battlefield 5 and see how it holds up.


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> 11:22 AM
> Btw ... Thank you for helping  @Falkentyne
> 
> Meh ... CL16 keeps crashing even after upping VCCIO/VCCSA.
> Back to CL17 and testing again.
> 
> 
> Edit: (current time)
> CL17 still running ... curious I am.
> 
> To give some idea, with the game running and a video running in the background with lots of crap in the background.
> 
> 13.2 GB / 32 GB
> 
> Can't really say anything ... but this bodes well ...
> Anno is still running without any hickups ... CL17 ... formerly unachievable.
> Gonna try a couple of rounds of battlefield 5 and see how it holds up.


I know you said you ran prime95, but you never ran it as a memory test, not as a CPU stress test.
If AVX is disabled, FFT range 112K to 512K (In place checked) stress the L3 cache and memory controller hard.

If your VCCIO is too low, and you do a custom (in place) test with this range (112K to 512K) with AVX disabled, this will help find IMC errors very fast. Threads will either crash on you, or you will get CPU Cache L0 errors (usually this is VCCIO related, or L3 cache problem with *hyperthreaded cores*, which make heavy use of L3).

This can also find RAM problems related to the memory controller (VCCIO) when overclocking, if games CTD. I saw this when I tried 3600 mhz 15-15-15-36, 2T, and VCCIO 1.15 and VCCSA 1.20 and DDRV at 1.40v. Once RAM temp got past 40C, games started crashing. Fixed by raising VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.25v (I did not test DDRV at 1.45v with lower IO/SA).

You can also do a blend test with FFT size 192K to 512K (AVX disabled) for testing IMC and RAM more than the memory controller (>512K).

Remember to disable AVX and FMA3. You're not using prime as a CPU test here.

The reason this works (112K to 512K in place fixed FFT) is because VCCIO controls both the memory controller and L3 cache.
Blend (or with in place unchecked, with 192K or higher) can troubleshoot either IMC or RAM.


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> I know you said you ran prime95, but you never ran it as a memory test, not as a CPU stress test.
> If AVX is disabled, FFT range 112K to 512K (In place checked) stress the L3 cache and memory controller hard.
> 
> If your VCCIO is too low, and you do a custom (in place) test with this range (112K to 512K) with AVX disabled, this will help find IMC errors very fast. Threads will either crash on you, or you will get CPU Cache L0 errors (usually this is VCCIO related, or L3 cache problem with *hyperthreaded cores*, which make heavy use of L3).
> 
> This can also find RAM problems related to the memory controller (VCCIO) when overclocking, if games CTD. I saw this when I tried 3600 mhz 15-15-15-36, 2T, and VCCIO 1.15 and VCCSA 1.20 and DDRV at 1.40v. Once RAM temp got past 40C, games started crashing. Fixed by raising VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.25v (I did not test DDRV at 1.45v with lower IO/SA).
> 
> You can also do a blend test with FFT size 192K to 512K (AVX disabled) for testing IMC and RAM more than the memory controller (>512K).
> 
> Remember to disable AVX and FMA3. You're not using prime as a CPU test here.
> 
> The reason this works (112K to 512K in place fixed FFT) is because VCCIO controls both the memory controller and L3 cache.
> Blend (or with in place unchecked, with 192K or higher) can troubleshoot either IMC or RAM.


If it crashes running at CL17 I'll run prime (maybe I'll run it anyways, but not now ... work/sleep/etc)

Could be temp wise as after gaming a while that 2080 Ti throws quite a lot of heat in my case. Case fans run at 100%, but the air coming out of the case is a bit warm.


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> @*Jpmboy* will help you with Gsat.
> It and Karhu ramtest (paid unfortunately) can find errors that HCI won't find at all.
> Thats why HCI isn't recommended all the time. It doesn't stress enough.
> 
> *Gsat requires a USB flash drive to boot to Ubuntu.*
> 
> Games crashing like that (CTD, random app errors) are always RAM related. Only thing that helps is VCCIO/SA, DDRV (up to a point) or reducing timings or frequency.
> 
> Have you tried Prime95?
> Prime95 can quickly find IMC related errors, unfortunately in some cases, higher core voltage may make them go away, or higher VCCIO (L3 cache voltage).
> The newest prime95 is much better with RAM/IMC errors than old obsolete versions like 26.6 or 28.4.
> 
> Try the following in prime95 29.8 build 6:
> AVX/AVX2 disabled.
> click Small FFT preset-->> Custom
> Range: 112k - 384K (in-place)
> 
> If you get a core crashing with AVX disabled, you know it's the IMC/L3 flaking out.
> 
> Then try:
> Blend preset->Custom
> Range: 512K-8192K
> AVX/AVX2 disabled
> RAM to test (half of system memory in Mbytes, e.g. 8192 MB=8 GB. In place disabled).
> 
> Report back the results.
> 
> (This is why sane people only do RAM testing overnight or if they have two computers).


 just to clarify, GSAT only requires that you enable the linux subsystem in windows (windows "bash" = ubuntu). once enabled, open Ubuntu from within windows and for say 64GB use the following command:
_stressapptest -W -M 57344 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_
This is a 1 hour run. change 3600 (seconds) to 7200 for 2 hours. the last delay value can be any number greater than the run time (and there is no "power spike" as he console report would lead you to believe  )


----------



## Intrud3r

Jpmboy said:


> just to clarify, GSAT only requires that you enable the linux subsystem in windows (windows "bash" = ubuntu). once enabled, open Ubuntu from within windows and for say 64GB use the following command:
> _stressapptest -W -M 57344 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700_
> This is a 1 hour run. change 3600 (seconds) to 7200 for 2 hours. the last delay value can be any number greater than the run time (and there is no "power spike" as he console report would lead you to believe  )


Thank you for the information. Will try this weekend.

For now ...

4000Mhz 17-22-22-41-560 @ 1.400V with VCCIO = 1.254V and VCCSA = 1.260V seems to be running fine.


----------



## amd955be5670

I attempted to overclock my dual rank Micron E Die (16GBx2) today.

The XMP is 3200 16-18-18-36. At first I dialed in all Auto, 18-22-22-42 and tried 4000mhz after upping IO/SA to 1.3V each, DRAM to 1.5V. PC did not post. Kept dropping (3900, 3866,3800,3733) and only 3600 did post. I decided to bench the 3600, but my AIDA64 write & copy tests plummeted by 10~20gb/s.

After this I went the other way around. I oc'd the frequency from the XMP profile instead. Surprisingly this too could POST all the way upto 3600. But the write & copy tests are horrible. I tried upping it slowly, and 3333 actually gave the best results. Dialing in 3466 causes the memory scores to drop again.

Also C16-3600, with bad copy & write scores was around 46.8ns of latency. Wondering where to proceed from this.

The rest is 8700k @ 5.0Ghz, Ringbus @ 4.8Ghz, Asrock Z370 Fatality K6. The motherboard's QVL has upto 3800mhz sticks for Dual Rank.

3333 Results:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=300868&thumb=1

I just tried 3733 CL17 and it apparently works (not sure why it didn't post earlier), and you can see the sharp decline in scores.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=300870&thumb=1


----------



## blodflekk

I decided to run aida64 benchmark on memory to see what kind of increase my OC actually gave me over xmp and some numbers have got worse. Is this normal? Is it something to be concerned with ?


----------



## Jpmboy

blodflekk said:


> I decided to run aida64 benchmark on memory to see what kind of increase my OC actually gave me over xmp and some numbers have got worse. Is this normal? Is it something to be concerned with ?


The numbers that look "worse" are more related to the cpu /cache clocks than ram. The RAM values calced by the trial version look better for the OC vs XMP...


----------



## lionc

seems like the previous issues I had were caused by RAM temperature, not IMC problems. strange.

4200 CL18-19-19 was stable in 8000% Karhu and 2hr GSAT but AIDA mem+cache crashed after a few minutes. Pointed a fan at the RAM sticks and even 4200 CL18-18-18 seems stable now.

Previous max temperature was 50°C, now 42°C. B-Die really does seem very temperature sensitive?


----------



## Dasboogieman

lionc said:


> seems like the previous issues I had were caused by RAM temperature, not IMC problems. strange.
> 
> 4200 CL18-19-19 was stable in 8000% Karhu and 2hr GSAT but AIDA mem+cache crashed after a few minutes. Pointed a fan at the RAM sticks and even 4200 CL18-18-18 seems stable now.
> 
> Previous max temperature was 50°C, now 42°C. B-Die really does seem very temperature sensitive?


Yes, B-die is notoriously sensitive to temperature. It likes staying between 15c and around 45c. Some of the overclocks right on the edge prefer around 40c. I've heard of cases where it actually poops itself below 15c as well for some reason.


----------



## blodflekk

Jpmboy said:


> The numbers that look "worse" are more related to the cpu /cache clocks than ram. The RAM values calced by the trial version look better for the OC vs XMP...


So should I try to push cache harder?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## munternet

blodflekk said:


> So should I try to push cache harder?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


I found that pushing the cache to hard is detrimental to stability which can hold back frequency, and cause errors under stress.
XMP will run my ram at 4400MHz @ 4400 cache although the vccio/vccsa are super high but it won't run at 4700 cache.

Edit: I see your setup is a fair bit different to mine so my findings may not apply


----------



## blodflekk

munternet said:


> I found that pushing the cache to hard is detrimental to stability which can hold back frequency, and cause errors under stress.
> 
> XMP will run my ram at 4400MHz @ 4400 cache although the vccio/vccsa are super high but it won't run at 4700 cache.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I see your setup is a fair bit different to mine so my findings may not apply


Yeah Broadwell e doesn't take cache very far. On top of that I dont have a good chip, it just didnt make sense to me that some numbers went down even though clocks were higher.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## ShunyaAtma

This is my first post here so please forgive me if something is out of place.
I've found tons of useful information on this thread that has helped me immensely in starting off with DDR4 overclocking. So thanks to all the folks who have contributed to this thread.

I have two pairs of GSkill F4-4133C19D-16GTZR. One pair was a gift and hence got a matching second pair. Plus it's hard to find quad DIMM kits where I live. My system has a 9900KF (50 Core, 43 Cache) with a Maximus XI Extreme mainboard. Current settings are:

Manual mode (no XMP)
VCore at 1.295V (LLC 6)
VCCIO at 1.23125V
VCCSA at 1.25000V
VDIMM: 1.46V

4x8GB sticks at 4200MT/s with timings of 17-18-18-38 2T / tRFC 374 / tREFI 32768 / Auto for all other timings
MRC Fastboot is Disabled, MCH Full Check is Enabled.

I am able to pass 2 hours of GSAT from an MXLinux live USB stick. But with WGSAT, after about an hour and a quarter, I'm seeing weird things like the taskbar search getting blacked out when I click on the start menu. Although, if I keep the test running it eventually passes.

If I run HCI Memtest for about 6+ hours, the same problem is seen. If I run it for longer, the "Windows is not activated" watermark appears on the desktop even though it is activated. Again, no errors. I have reinstalled Windows a few times, run SFC scans to check for file corruption just to be sure but can still replicate the scenario.

At this point, I'm not sure where the problem is. So, any pointers would be helpful.


@Jpmboy @Silent Scone Any thoughts?


----------



## Jpmboy

blodflekk said:


> So should I try to push cache harder?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


always worth a try...


----------



## Urik26

Hi everyone! That's my final version of Ballistix Sport tuning. The cpu is stock, only +0.05v for stability.


----------



## BLUuuE

Urik26 said:


> Hi everyone! That's my final version of Ballistix Sport tuning. The cpu is stock, only +0.05v for stability.


What are your subtimings?

This is my OC with the 3000 15-16-16 kit.



Spoiler


----------



## Urik26

Here


----------



## Intrud3r

A quick test with stressapptest (just 10 min to see how it was working).

Seems to be working.

@Jpmboy
Is 28768 too much for 32 GB ? I noticed that my free memory during test was hovering between 150-400Mb.
And ... is a 1 hour test considered enough? Or how long would you rather run it to check your stability?

Edit:
Second picture is a 1 hour run. Seems stable so far.


----------



## _AntLionBR_

Hello,

Could someone help me on the issue of RTLs / IO-L? I use a 32Gb kit, model G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZR.

Best result I got here, I left at 4133MHz C17-18-28-28 2T 1.40V.

VCCIO 1.075V.
VCSSA 1.20V.

Fully stable with RAM Test software. But I still want to squeeze more of the options.

I don't understand much about RTLs / IO-L. can anybody help me? What can I still improve?

PS: Sorry for my weak English.
PS2: Pictured is VCCIO 1.12V and VCCSA 1.25V, but it was still in testing.


----------



## Nizzen

_AntLionBR_ said:


> Hello,
> 
> Could someone help me on the issue of RTLs / IO-L? I use a 32Gb kit, model G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZR.
> 
> Best result I got here, I left at 4133MHz C17-18-28-28 2T 1.40V.
> 
> VCCIO 1.075V.
> VCSSA 1.20V.
> 
> Fully stable with RAM Test software. But I still want to squeeze more of the options.
> 
> I don't understand much about RTLs / IO-L. can anybody help me?
> 
> PS: Sorry for my weak English.
> PS2: Pictured is VCCIO 1.12V and VCCSA 1.25V, but it was still in testing.


You're TRFC is very high! Try 400, and you will see big performance gains 😉


----------



## munternet

I started to look at the Taichi x299 memory QVL and there are all sorts of chips.
A-Die, B-Die, C-Die, E-Die, F-Die, H-Die, J-Die and M-Die.
So which is best?


----------



## KedarWolf

@Jpmboy

What do you think of the 4x8GB Trident 4000 CL15 coming out soon? It uses 1.5v by default. :thumbsdow

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g...-latency-ddr4-4000-cl15-32gb-memory-kits.html


----------



## djgar

munternet said:


> I started to look at the Taichi x299 memory QVL and there are all sorts of chips.
> A-Die, B-Die, C-Die, E-Die, F-Die, H-Die, J-Die and M-Die.
> So which is best?


Yeah, which is 2-Die 4


----------



## Hydroplane

KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> What do you think of the 4x8GB Trident 4000 CL15 coming out soon? It uses 1.5v by default. :thumbsdow
> 
> https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g...-latency-ddr4-4000-cl15-32gb-memory-kits.html


Crank it up to 1.6 or so :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> 
> What do you think of the 4x8GB Trident 4000 CL15 coming out soon? It uses 1.5v by default. :thumbsdow
> 
> https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/g...-latency-ddr4-4000-cl15-32gb-memory-kits.html


a number of sticks are 1.5V, that is fine... but that's a kit I will likely buy! I mean, on the new x299s they should be screamers!


----------



## _AntLionBR_

Nizzen said:


> You're TRFC is very high! Try 400, and you will see big performance gains 😉


Thanks for the answer.

Is this value of 400 in tRFC (average) not just for 16Gb kit, or am I mistaken? 
I noticed that many people use average 350-400 but with two memory stick kit only.


----------



## warbucks

Jpmboy said:


> a number of sticks are 1.5V, that is fine... but that's a kit I will likely buy! I mean, on the new x299s they should be screamers!


I've got that kit on my watch list as well. Will pick one up. Looks real nice.


----------



## munternet

_AntLionBR_ said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> Is this value of 400 in tRFC (average) not just for 16Gb kit, or am I mistaken?
> I noticed that many people use average 350-400 but with two memory stick kit only.


Running 375 here with 4x8GB and that's without pushing it.


----------



## BLUuuE

_AntLionBR_ said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> Is this value of 400 in tRFC (average) not just for 16Gb kit, or am I mistaken?
> I noticed that many people use average 350-400 but with two memory stick kit only.


Depends on the IC.

B-die can run tRFC 160ns-180ns (note the units).


Code:


tRFC = tRFC_ns * DDR_freq / 2000

At 4133MHz, that's 330.64 - 371.97 ticks.


----------



## Jpmboy

BLUuuE said:


> Depends on the IC.
> 
> B-die can run tRFC 160ns-180ns (note the units).
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> tRFC = tRFC_ns * DDR_freq / 2000
> 
> At 4133MHz, that's 330.64 - 371.97 ticks.


isn't 4133 the "speed" and the actual operating frequency is 2066?


----------



## BLUuuE

Jpmboy said:


> isn't 4133 the "speed" and the actual frequency is 2066?


Yeah. Technically the effective speed is 4133MT/s not MHz, but people use MHz and MT/s interchangeably now.


----------



## Jpmboy

Intrud3r said:


> A quick test with stressapptest (just 10 min to see how it was working).
> 
> Seems to be working.
> 
> @*Jpmboy*
> Is 28768 too much for 32 GB ? I noticed that my free memory during test was hovering between 150-400Mb.
> And ... is a 1 hour test considered enough? Or how long would you rather run it to check your stability?
> 
> Edit:
> Second picture is a 1 hour run. Seems stable so far.


 1-2h of GSAT is a pretty thorough test of the ram's stability. Note that GSAT really isolates the ram whereas tests like HCi and RamTest stress the cache/io to a greater extent than GSAT. Gsat will report the error type (cpu or ram based) to help understand the origin of an error.
I use 28762 for 32GB rigs. Do you have background programs running or stuff loading at windows launch?


----------



## Jpmboy

BLUuuE said:


> Yeah. Technically the effective speed is 4133MT/s not MHz, but people use MHz and MT/s interchangeably now.


That's what I thought, not that they are interchangeable at the IMC level... hence why Cache min frequency is best set to = ram frequency, or 1/2 "speed". On some platforms (like x299, the bios takes care of this.


----------



## Intrud3r

Jpmboy said:


> 1-2h of GSAT is a pretty thorough test of the ram's stability. Note that GSAT really isolates the ram whereas tests like HCi and RamTest stress the cache/io to a greater extent than GSAT. Gsat will report the error type (cpu or ram based) to help understand the origin of an error.
> I use 28762 for 32GB rigs. Do you have background programs running or stuff loading at windows launch?


I've dropped the memory to 27648. That seemed more reasonable.

And yes, lots of background programs and mostly a video or music running in the background.

I've tested 16-22-22, this gave me 2 hardware errors
I've tested 17-21-21, this gave me 2 hardware errors too, but earlier then the 16-22-22 run.

Went back to 17-22-22 and retested ... seemed stable, tightened TRFC a bit more, and upped my TREFI, retested and it seems stable with a 1 hour run.


----------



## Intrud3r

First time I actually play with memory overclocking ... 

Still ... I am utterly astonished by the fact that my "cheapass" memory kit (G.Skill TridentZ 3200C16-18-18-38-560) can actually run at 4000Mhz.

Just ... amazed. Never expected it.

To all that helped getting me here ... THANK YOU !!!

(tested a lot, learned a lot, had fun)

Last picture, for comparison ... my AIDA cache and memory benchmark from stock memory values.


----------



## Gen.

Intrud3r said:


> First time I actually play with memory overclocking ...
> 
> Still ... I am utterly astonished by the fact that my "cheapass" memory kit (G.Skill TridentZ 3200C16-18-18-38-560) can actually run at 4000Mhz.
> 
> Just ... amazed. Never expected it.
> 
> To all that helped getting me here ... THANK YOU !!!
> 
> (tested a lot, learned a lot, had fun)
> 
> Last picture, for comparison ... my AIDA cache and memory benchmark from stock memory values.


May be Karhu RAM Test?))


----------



## johnyb0y

I recently bought a new kit for my workstation. Just finished my initial Ram tuning and I thought I'd do a little write-up with all the info and screenshots. 
Maybe helpful to someone. 


*Mainboard:* Gigabyte AORUS Z390 Pro Wifi 
*BIOS-Version:* F10
*CPU:* 9900K
*RAM-Kit:* G.Skill 4133Mhz 4x8GB C17 (F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR)

*VCCIO:* 1.16v
*VCCSA:* 1.16v
*Ram Voltage:* 1.40v

Short Summary: I was able to get stable 3900Mhz on the RAM using the marked values in Screenshot 5a. Without these I could only boot max 3800Mhz. Anything higher than 3900Mhz seems impossible for me (the Z390 Pro Wifi seems kind a tricky in this regard), but I was able to tune the timings. Very happy with the results.

Happy to answer any questions.


----------



## swddeluxx

BLUuuE said:


> Depends on the IC.
> 
> B-die can run tRFC 160ns-180ns (note the units).
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> tRFC = tRFC_ns * DDR_freq / 2000
> 
> At 4133MHz, that's 330.64 - 371.97 ticks.


Gene XI Mainboard with new 1302 Bios
4266 CL 17 1T with *150ns* tRFC 

HCI Memtest Pro 6.4 no Problem


----------



## Jpmboy

swddeluxx said:


> Gene XI Mainboard with new 1302 Bios
> 4266 CL 17 1T with *150ns* tRFC
> 
> HCI Memtest Pro 6.4 no Problem



125% HCI ?


----------



## swddeluxx

Jpmboy said:


> 125% HCI ?



Yes *Jpmboy*, and over 5000% Karhu MemTest, and half-hour Stress App Test memory stress test


----------



## Jpmboy

swddeluxx said:


> Yes *Jpmboy*, and over 5000% Karhu MemTest, and half-hour Stress App Test memory stress test


yeah, my point being that 125% on 16GB at those speeds is what... 20min? Doesn't add much to a stability "regime". RamTest and GSAT fill it out tho. :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

been running this for months now - manual RTLs and IOLs. If I switch out the 8700K for a 8086K, 4500 is not as easy and needs more IO and vdimm with the 8086K. >4500 on either just requires too much VCCIO and VSA for my liking on this platform. Z390 does better in that regard. Interestingly, my 3600c15 kit behaves the same at 4200-4500 with the 8700K, the 8086K's IMC just can't drive that kit the same... as usual it all comes down to the silicon!


----------



## JoeRambo

RRD_S @ 3 and tFAW @ 12 are those even legit values for DDR4? isn't min 4 and 16?


----------



## Jpmboy

JoeRambo said:


> RRD_S @ 3 and tFAW @ 12 are those even legit values for DDR4? isn't min 4 and 16?


the bios/chipset/imc could correct the values if there was a severe enough timing error (during POST) - it does this with tRAS set too low, and you cannot see the value substituted with any OS based tool. But I tested both, repeatedly, and 3/12 gave slightly better AID scores vs 4/16, no impact on Super Pi 32M, nothing noticeable anywhere else, so I just left it at 3/12.


----------



## swddeluxx

Jpmboy said:


> been running this for months now - manual RTLs and IOLs. If I switch out the 8700K for a 8086K, 4500 is not as easy and needs more IO and vdimm with the 8086K. >4500 on either just requires too much VCCIO and VSA for my liking on this platform. Z390 does better in that regard. Interestingly, my 3600c15 kit behaves the same at 4200-4500 with the 8700K, the 8086K's IMC just can't drive that kit the same... as usual it all comes down to the silicon!


You can still tweak your setting, a little bit :thumb:
Set "*tWTR_L*" and "*tWTR_S*" to "*Auto*"
than set "*tWRRD_sg*" to "*28*", "*tWRRD_dg*" to "*23*"
now "*tRDWR_sg*" to "*12*", "*tRDWR_dg*" to "*12*"
and at last "*tWR*" to "*Auto*" and "*tWRPRE*" to "*30*"

I also successfully tested the same 4800 Ram Kit :guitar:


----------



## chibi

Hope that kit restocks soon, F4-4800C18D-16GTRS. 


Edit - in stock now at Newegg, just ordered a set to pair with 9900KS when released! :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

chibi said:


> Hope that kit restocks soon, F4-4800C18D-16GTRS.
> 
> 
> Edit - in stock now at Newegg, just ordered a set to pair with 9900KS when released! :thumb:


^^ Noice!!


----------



## JoeRambo

Jpmboy said:


> the bios/chipset/imc could correct the values if there was a severe enough timing error (during POST) - it does this with tRAS set too low, and you cannot see the value substituted with any OS based tool. But I tested both, repeatedly, and 3/12 gave slightly better AID scores vs 4/16, no impact on Super Pi 32M, nothing noticeable anywhere else, so I just left it at 3/12.



Did some testing on peasant class Z370-A, does not seem to have any impact on AIDA scores for me, seems to be auto corrected to 4/16. Maybe my other timings are simply not low enough and lower RRD_S + tFAW do not come into play. But when i tried increasing to 5 / 20, it had impact on AIDA scores.


----------



## moorhen2

Just received my I9 9900K RO Stepping, just giving the IMC a try out, needs a little less IO and SA voltages for 4533mhz than my PO stepping 9900K. Wil keep testing for now.


----------



## lionc

Had some extra time to look at the RAM on my Maximus X Hero again, 4x8GB 4200 CL17-18-18 is 8000% stable in Karhu and GSAT (6 hours no errors). 600-900k Prime 29.8b6 was also 12 hour stable but workers crash after 3 minutes into 192k non-AVX. Error still happens when I downclock to 47x CPU/43x Cache. 
Is that a IMC error then? It seems impossible to get decent memory performance with this setup.


----------



## tistou77

chibi said:


> Hope that kit restocks soon, F4-4800C18D-16GTRS.
> 
> 
> Edit - in stock now at Newegg, just ordered a set to pair with 9900KS when released! :thumb:


Surely the same than 4600 C18 kit (1.45v), no ?


----------



## Falkentyne

lionc said:


> Had some extra time to look at the RAM on my Maximus X Hero again, 4x8GB 4200 CL17-18-18 is 8000% stable in Karhu and GSAT (6 hours no errors). 600-900k Prime 29.8b6 was also 12 hour stable but workers crash after 3 minutes into 192k non-AVX. Error still happens when I downclock to 47x CPU/43x Cache.
> Is that a IMC error then? It seems impossible to get decent memory performance with this setup.


Raise vccio.


----------



## Jpmboy

JoeRambo said:


> Did some testing on peasant class Z370-A, does not seem to have any impact on AIDA scores for me, seems to be auto corrected to 4/16. Maybe my other timings are simply not low enough and lower RRD_S + tFAW do not come into play. But when i tried increasing to 5 / 20, it had impact on AIDA scores.


yeah, as with all these settings, performance improvements will plateau unless a dependent timing is adjusted also. Some years ago MIcron put out as paper (journal article) detailing this wrt tFAW. I have it somewhere. 


lionc said:


> Had some extra time to look at the RAM on my Maximus X Hero again, 4x8GB 4200 CL17-18-18 is 8000% stable in Karhu and GSAT (6 hours no errors). 600-900k Prime 29.8b6 was also 12 hour stable but workers crash after 3 minutes into 192k non-AVX. Error still happens when I downclock to 47x CPU/43x Cache.
> Is that a IMC error then? It seems impossible to get decent memory performance with this setup.


Seeing as the settings are passing 6h GSAT (without cpu-based errors) hard to know. When running p95 by disabling AVX (better than using an old version without avx implemented, and the old versions lack some code improvements) set the bios AVX offset to 0 (zero). Disable speedstep (EIST) and enable speedshift if running windows 10. Is p95 making the sticks hotter vs GSAT?

To disable AVX in the most recent p95 versions in the Local.txt file use the commands:
CpuSupportsAVX=0 or 1
CpuSupportsFMA3=0 or 1
(1 = enabled)
Obviously FMA3 won't work if AVX is disabled.
A list of commands is in the undoc.txt file in the p95 folder.



tistou77 said:


> Surely the same than 4600 C18 kit (1.45v), no ?


Certainly different bins if not different ICs


----------



## tistou77

Jpmboy said:


> Certainly different bins if not different ICs


A little better in OC, maybe 

I saw that G.Skill released a kit Royal 4000 C15 at 1.50v
The kit 4000 C17 at 1.35v, should be able to do the same thing ?
I do not really understand


----------



## lionc

Falkentyne said:


> Raise vccio.


I tried that but it's quite at the limit with 1.3V indicated in HWinfo (both SA and IO). The issue remained. I briefly tried it with auto and it seemed stable, but that's an absurd 1.45V @ DDR4200 on my Asus board. Surely that can't be safe on aircooling for more than a few minutes.
I'm getting so tired with this instability that I'm close to leaving it set to auto and calling it a day. The same issues are occuring with DDR4000 at 18-19-19 and 1.3V SA/IO.



Jpmboy said:


> Seeing as the settings are passing 6h GSAT (without cpu-based errors) hard to know. When running p95 by disabling AVX (better than using an old version without avx implemented, and the old versions lack some code improvements) set the bios AVX offset to 0 (zero). Disable speedstep (EIST) and enable speedshift if running windows 10. Is p95 making the sticks hotter vs GSAT?


Yes, passing GSAT without any errors at all. It's the newest version of p95, the stability test section now has checkbox options for the various avx options. AVX offset is and was always set to zero. 
The RAM is cooler (44°C for the hottest) in P95 because the higher CPU load makes the case fans spin faster, giving the RAM more airflow.


----------



## Jpmboy

lionc said:


> I tried that but it's quite at the limit with 1.3V indicated in HWinfo (both SA and IO). The issue remained. I briefly tried it with auto and it seemed stable, but that's an absurd 1.45V @ DDR4200 on my Asus board. Surely that can't be safe on aircooling for more than a few minutes.
> I'm getting so tired with this instability that I'm close to leaving it set to auto and calling it a day. The same issues are occuring with DDR4000 at 18-19-19 and 1.3V SA/IO.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, passing GSAT without any errors at all. It's the newest version of p95, the stability test section now has checkbox options for the various avx options. AVX offset is and was always set to zero.
> The RAM is cooler (44°C for the hottest) in P95 because the higher CPU load makes the case fans spin faster, giving the RAM more airflow.


So it would seem to pass gsat while running higher temperature on the sticks... :thinking:


----------



## NIK1

I am tuning up a older PC I have for my nephew which is a MSI Z97 MPower Max AC with a Intel Core i7-4790K OC'd to 5.0MHz.The memory in this system is 16 gigs of G Skill TridentX F3-2400C9-4GTXD.Just wondering,is there a thread here in this forum like this DDR4 one that will help me tune up the DDR3 memory I have.All the overclocking I have learned from the pros here helped me greatly with my system that has DDR4 GSkill 3600 mem.Is OC'ing DDR3 just the same as DDR4 or is there big time differences like with sa,io volts,max mem volts,digital io volts. etc.The DDR3 i have is 1.650v and my DDR4 is 1.350v.With the DDR4 I have got my mem OC to 3866 15 15 15 32 1N and have not exceeded 1.470v.So any help with this DDR3 will be greatly appreciated...


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> I am tuning up a older PC I have for my nephew which is a MSI Z97 MPower Max AC with a Intel Core i7-4790K OC'd to 5.0MHz.The memory in this system is 16 gigs of G Skill TridentX F3-2400C9-4GTXD.Just wondering,is there a thread here in this forum like this DDR4 one that will help me tune up the DDR3 memory I have.All the overclocking I have learned from the pros here helped me greatly with my system that has DDR4 GSkill 3600 mem.Is OC'ing DDR3 just the same as DDR4 or is there big time differences like with sa,io volts,max mem volts,digital io volts. etc.The DDR3 i have is 1.650v and my DDR4 is 1.350v.With the DDR4 I have got my mem OC to 3866 15 15 15 32 1N and have not exceeded 1.470v.So any help with this DDR3 will be greatly appreciated...


The timings "rules" for DDR3 and DDR4 are very similar, main difference is the voltages necessary to align signals. Basically, go about it in the same way you did your DDR4 kit(s). You'd be sup[rised at how good the latency is on that 4790K @ 5.0. It is still a tough chip/platform to beat for IPC and IPT.


----------



## NIK1

Right on..Thanks for the info.I will giver a go tonight and see how good I can make this G Skill Trident X DDR3 2400 fly.


----------



## NIK1

Asrock Timing Configurator 4.04 does not seem to work good with ddr3.Is there a older version that jived with ddr3.


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Asrock Timing Configurator 4.04 does not seem to work good with ddr3.Is there a older version that jived with ddr3.


 yeah - just pull up a DDR3 board at asrock and it should be under utilities.
try this one


----------



## BLUuuE

NIK1 said:


> I am tuning up a older PC I have for my nephew which is a MSI Z97 MPower Max AC with a Intel Core i7-4790K OC'd to 5.0MHz.The memory in this system is 16 gigs of G Skill TridentX F3-2400C9-4GTXD.Just wondering,is there a thread here in this forum like this DDR4 one that will help me tune up the DDR3 memory I have.All the overclocking I have learned from the pros here helped me greatly with my system that has DDR4 GSkill 3600 mem.Is OC'ing DDR3 just the same as DDR4 or is there big time differences like with sa,io volts,max mem volts,digital io volts. etc.The DDR3 i have is 1.650v and my DDR4 is 1.350v.With the DDR4 I have got my mem OC to 3866 15 15 15 32 1N and have not exceeded 1.470v.So any help with this DDR3 will be greatly appreciated...


https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...r-Overclocking&p=269764&viewfull=1#post269764


----------



## NIK1

Thanks Jpmboy..This one is acting funky too.


----------



## _AntLionBR_

Nizzen said:


> You're TRFC is very high! Try 400, and you will see big performance gains 😉





munternet said:


> Running 375 here with 4x8GB and that's without pushing it.


I was able to set stable at 400 on tRFC. 375 caused instability. What else could I improve now? RTLs / IO-L?


----------



## Jpmboy

_AntLionBR_ said:


> I was able to set stable at 400 on tRFC. 375 caused instability. What else could I improve now? RTLs / IO-L?


first try lowering tRTP (you can go as low as 4, possibly 3), then once you have a good RTP, you can set tRAS to cas+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2)

Next: lower RRD_S to 6 or 4, then set tFAW to 4xRRD_S

Test stability (quickly) at each stage. Also, you really want to know if any of thee are improving performance... AID64 membench, or something.


----------



## FarmerJo

anyone know why my corsair dominator platinum's that i have (b-die) wouldn't be stable at 1.5v? i have them stable around 1.42 but increasing them seems to cause instability. temps are under 45 while running memtest.

thanks in advance!


----------



## BLUuuE

NIK1 said:


> Thanks Jpmboy..This one is acting funky too.


You need to use v2.0.7.


----------



## NIK1

Thanks BLUuue..Ver 2.07 works and shows the numbers in the boxes correctly.


----------



## Jpmboy

NIK1 said:


> Thanks BLUuue..Ver 2.07 works and shows the numbers in the boxes correctly.


post that version up, we'll keep it in the archives.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

delete


----------



## daniel audanie

Hey there!

I just finished tightening my ram as far as it could go, which doesn't seem like much. I'm using the patriot viper 3733mhz cl17 kit, which is cjr/c-die. 

So far, I'm running 3800mhz with 16-21-21-39-520-2t and 15000 TREFI. Pretty much all of the other timings I left on auto since the system became unstable very easily if I changed them, even one by one following the github ddr4 guide. I have training voltage at 1.44v and ddr voltage at 1.48. It was at 1.47 but at around 2000% with HCI memtest, one instance had an error so I just bumped it up .01v and called it a day. 

Is my latency about normal for these kinds of frequencies and a 5.3/4.7 overclock on a 8c/8t 9900k? Also I was researching others overclocking cjr and it looks like my kit does not overclock well, it may be because I'm running 4x8gb on a t-topology board.


----------



## munternet

daniel audanie said:


> Hey there!
> 
> I just finished tightening my ram as far as it could go, which doesn't seem like much. I'm using the patriot viper 3733mhz cl17 kit, which is cjr/c-die.
> 
> So far, I'm running 3800mhz with 16-21-21-39-520-2t and 15000 TREFI. Pretty much all of the other timings I left on auto since the system became unstable very easily if I changed them, even one by one following the github ddr4 guide. I have training voltage at 1.44v and ddr voltage at 1.48. It was at 1.47 but at around 2000% with HCI memtest, one instance had an error so I just bumped it up .01v and called it a day.
> 
> Is my latency about normal for these kinds of frequencies and a 5.3/4.7 overclock on a 8c/8t 9900k? Also I was researching others overclocking cjr and it looks like my kit does not overclock well, it may be because I'm running 4x8gb on a t-topology board.


Nice CPU Oclock 
Noob question....Is that tRFC normal for cjr/c-die? Seems a bit higher than b-die.


----------



## Jpmboy

daniel audanie said:


> Hey there!
> 
> I just finished tightening my ram as far as it could go, which doesn't seem like much. I'm using the patriot viper 3733mhz cl17 kit, which is cjr/c-die.
> 
> So far, I'm running 3800mhz with 16-21-21-39-520-2t and 15000 TREFI. Pretty much all of the other timings I left on auto since the system became unstable very easily if I changed them, even one by one following the github ddr4 guide. I have training voltage at 1.44v and ddr voltage at 1.48. It was at 1.47 but at around 2000% with HCI memtest, one instance had an error so I just bumped it up .01v and called it a day.
> 
> Is my latency about normal for these kinds of frequencies and a 5.3/4.7 overclock on a 8c/8t 9900k? Also I was researching others overclocking cjr and it looks like my kit does not overclock well, it may be because I'm running 4x8gb on a t-topology board.


 nice job with those ICs. Latency looks good for the timings. :thumb:

Tho, I'm not sure what you are gaining by training at a lower VDIMM than the run-time VDIMM...?


----------



## daniel audanie

munternet said:


> Nice CPU Oclock
> Noob question....Is that tRFC normal for cjr/c-die? Seems a bit higher than b-die.


Not sure but it seems normal based on this post https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a4z89t/hynix_cjr_looks_great_very_close_to_bdie_presets/
I have a very hard time finding information about cjr, let alone on an Intel system. B-die seems to do a lot better with tRFC. 



Jpmboy said:


> nice job with those ICs. Latency looks good for the timings. :thumb:
> 
> Tho, I'm not sure what you are gaining by training at a lower VDIMM than the run-time VDIMM...?


Honestly, couldn't tell ya with 100% certainty. There is so little information out there on memory training voltage, this thread excluded. I know the system had a hard time posting when training voltage was at stock so I bumped it up to 1.44v since from what I know, it's what the memory trains at. If I'm thinking correctly, training at a higher voltage could allow lower timings that are unstable at present VDIMM.


----------



## Intrud3r

daniel audanie said:


> Not sure but it seems normal based on this post https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a4z89t/hynix_cjr_looks_great_very_close_to_bdie_presets/
> I have a very hard time finding information about cjr, let alone on an Intel system. B-die seems to do a lot better with tRFC.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, couldn't tell ya with 100% certainty. There is so little information out there on memory training voltage, this thread excluded. I know the system had a hard time posting when training voltage was at stock so I bumped it up to 1.44v since from what I know, it's what the memory trains at. If I'm thinking correctly, training at a higher voltage could allow lower timings that are unstable at present VDIMM.


I've got Hynix AFR chips reading out my spd chips, but I'm unsure if they are actual AFR chips or if they are actual CFR chips.
Apart from that fact, TRFC for those chips are between 520-560 from what i've read.


----------



## BLUuuE

Managed to get 4400 17-24-24 stable on my Crucial Ballistix Sport 3000 15-16-16 kit, but after messing with some settings it's unstable again :/

VCCSA/VCCIO are actually 1.35v, not 1.28v.



Spoiler


----------



## lionc

update on my memory stability issues: 4200-17-18-18 is perfectly stable using Asus' auto VCCIO/VCCSA and I'm now leaving it running at those voltages (HWinfo indicated 1.45 each) until something breaks. 
I do not intend to resell the CPU anyway and it's likely not the only CPU running these voltages, considering they're the XMP auto default.
Either this solves my problems or the IMC goes defective, in which case I was looking at a 9900KS anyway. We'll see what happens!


----------



## Jpmboy

lionc said:


> update on my memory stability issues: 4200-17-18-18 is perfectly stable using Asus' auto VCCIO/VCCSA and I'm now leaving it running at those voltages (HWinfo indicated 1.45 each) until something breaks.
> I do not intend to resell the CPU anyway and it's likely not the only CPU running these voltages, considering they're the XMP auto default.
> Either this solves my problems or the IMC goes defective, in which case I was looking at a 9900KS anyway. We'll see what happens!


FYI - XMP is not setting the VSA and VCCIO, the bios Auto rules do. 1.45V for each is at the super high end, and normally I'd call that a suicide run... but then with your explanation: "_smoke 'em if you got 'em_".


----------



## daniel audanie

Intrud3r said:


> I've got Hynix AFR chips reading out my spd chips, but I'm unsure if they are actual AFR chips or if they are actual CFR chips.
> Apart from that fact, TRFC for those chips are between 520-560 from what i've read.


I was digging through your posts when I was overclocking my ram, seems like you have a very nice kit. I can barely boot stable at 4000/cl17 even at 1.5v. Thaiphoon burner says CJR for my kit but after watching Buildzoids recent video, who knows.


----------



## Intrud3r

daniel audanie said:


> I was digging through your posts when I was overclocking my ram, seems like you have a very nice kit. I can barely boot stable at 4000/cl17 even at 1.5v. Thaiphoon burner says CJR for my kit but after watching Buildzoids recent video, who knows.


This is my first time overclocking memory, went easier then I expected. Read a lot before I started tho 
Anyway, what my experience was is the following:

XMP profile was stable (duhh) 3200 16-18-18-38-560 @ 1.350V
I checked the secondary and tertiary settings given by XMP and put them in manually.

Upped VCCIO / VCCSA / VDIMM
Tried to up frequency ... didn't get far ... about 3600 - 3733ish

Changed secondary and tertiary settings according to multiple guides and choose safe values to start with, this ran nicely on 3200 16-18-18-38 so I upped the frequency again. This let me actually boot and get into windows at 4000Mhz. After that the tightening started. Didn't try higher yet. Prolly won't.


----------



## Hydroplane

Testing b-die on Z390 at 1.5v, I could boot the following:

4000c15 (actually tried a stability test with this and it crashed ASAP, would have been a nice sweet spot!)
4133c16 (my "daily driver" setting)
4200 19-19-19-39
4400 19-19-19-39
4600 19-19-19-39
4800 20-20-20-40

Sadly could not hit 5 ghz at 21-21-21-41 or 22-22-22-42. 4267 was an odd one, no matter what settings I tried it wouldn't boot. As is my past experience, at no point did 1.55v or 1.6v allow me to gain any stability.


----------



## Jpmboy

Hydroplane said:


> Testing b-die on Z390 at 1.5v, I could boot the following:
> 
> 4000c15 (actually tried a stability test with this and it crashed ASAP, would have been a nice sweet spot!)
> 4133c16 (my "daily driver" setting)
> 4200 19-19-19-39
> 4400 19-19-19-39
> 4600 19-19-19-39
> 4800 20-20-20-40
> 
> Sadly could not hit 5 ghz at 21-21-21-41 or 22-22-22-42. 4267 was an odd one, no matter what settings I tried it wouldn't boot. As is my past experience, at no point did 1.55v or 1.6v allow me to gain any stability.


4266 has a different memory divider (except for 4133?). May be the reason?


----------



## WeirdBob

Hi guys, 
I must be doing something wrong.
I have a quad kit GSkill trident, 4x8gb [email protected] At XMP, everything works. According to taiphoon, I have Samsung b-die.
I want to OC, so I raise my DRAM voltage to 1.4V, set VCCSA and VCCIO to 1.15V (they read as 1.18V under HWInfo), so far so good.
Now I loosen the timings to 16-20-20-40, and I'm already not stable any more, BSOD at windows boot.
I set them back at 16-16-16-36, back to stable. 
I try lowering my tRfc from 631 to 600 to try and lower my latency (was 72ns) -> BSOD during Aida64 memory benchmark.
I tried to raise the frequency from 3600 to 3733 and to 3800 without touching timings, had to clear my Cmos twice to Post again.

I'm under the impression that whatever I touch, I'm not stable. Everything I don't touch is left on Auto. 

Rest of the system: Asrock x299 Taichi Xe, [email protected], [email protected], custom loop.

Any advice?


----------



## munternet

WeirdBob said:


> Hi guys,
> I must be doing something wrong.
> I have a quad kit GSkill trident, 4x8gb [email protected] At XMP, everything works. According to taiphoon, I have Samsung b-die.
> I want to OC, so I raise my DRAM voltage to 1.4V, set VCCSA and VCCIO to 1.15V (they read as 1.18V under HWInfo), so far so good.
> Now I loosen the timings to 16-20-20-40, and I'm already not stable any more, BSOD at windows boot.
> I set them back at 16-16-16-36, back to stable.
> I try lowering my tRfc from 631 to 600 to try and lower my latency (was 72ns) -> BSOD during Aida64 memory benchmark.
> I tried to raise the frequency from 3600 to 3733 and to 3800 without touching timings, had to clear my Cmos twice to Post again.
> 
> I'm under the impression that whatever I touch, I'm not stable. Everything I don't touch is left on Auto.
> 
> Rest of the system: Asrock x299 Taichi Xe, [email protected], [email protected], custom loop.
> 
> Any advice?


Have you tried testing using GSAT to confirm the error is from the memory? https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...application-test-tiny-bootable-linux-iso.html
You might also try overclocking the memory with the rest at stock. I usually only blue screened when I had another problem unless I was reaching for the stars


----------



## Imprezzion

You might wanna use a LOT more IO and SA for that CPU.
Going to 1.3v isn't really anything wierd on that platform honestly for higher frequencies (3600+ on any useful timings).

Try as a baseline: 4000Mhz 17-17-17-34-350-2T with at least 32000 tREFI and the rest Auto on 1.4-1.45v DRAM and 1.25-1.3v IO and SA just as a quick and dirty baseline test to see if the combination of parts in your particular rig wanna work together for a OC.


----------



## Intrud3r

Oh my ... just can't resist playing with crap ... so here I went testing C16 @ 4000 with higher VCCIO / VCCSA.

First time running GSAT for 1 hour I had 1.300V set for both VCCIO and VCCSA. Got 1 crc mismatch and 1 hardware error at about 3/4.
Upped VCCIO and VCCSA both with 0.010V resulting in:

VCCIO = 1.298V
VCCSA = 1.320V

It actually finished 1 hour GSAT at 4000 C16-22-22-40-520-31200 @ 1.450V


----------



## Imprezzion

Time to tighten the rest a bit now lol.

Aim for like, 16-17-17-33-280-CR2 48600 or something. 

I went a tad YOLO on the B-Die I have and i'm kind of ashamed to admit this but yeah i put 1.55v DRAM on it.. And somehow it worked.. I always learned that B-Die scales bad with voltage above 1.45v but it worked lol.. 

The secondaries and tertiaries i can run with that high a DRAM voltage are so low right now lol.. Every single timing is manually adjusted and RTL/IO is customized as well. Lowest it will go and still train in properly. 

Look at my AIDA and my timing list  You can take some pointers from it since your on 4000 and im on 4220 it might not require 1.55v 

And yes, i did test it with HCI 12GB load for about 1800% when i was working today for 9 hours and zero errors. Just didn't screenshot it. Got plenty of screenshots of slightly higher timings tho on 1.50v.


----------



## Intrud3r

Imprezzion said:


> Time to tighten the rest a bit now lol.
> 
> Aim for like, 16-17-17-33-280-CR2 48600 or something.
> 
> I went a tad YOLO on the B-Die I have and i'm kind of ashamed to admit this but yeah i put 1.55v DRAM on it.. And somehow it worked.. I always learned that B-Die scales bad with voltage above 1.45v but it worked lol..
> 
> The secondaries and tertiaries i can run with that high a DRAM voltage are so low right now lol.. Every single timing is manually adjusted and RTL/IO is customized as well. Lowest it will go and still train in properly.
> 
> Look at my AIDA and my timing list  You can take some pointers from it since your on 4000 and im on 4220 it might not require 1.55v
> 
> And yes, i did test it with HCI 12GB load for about 1800% when i was working today for 9 hours and zero errors. Just didn't screenshot it. Got plenty of screenshots of slightly higher timings tho on 1.50v.


Mine are not B-die's, I've got Hynix AFR/CFR chips ... 
Already tried 16-21-21, but that was a no go. GSAT threw errors at me. So I went back to 16-22-22.

Started up Battlefield 5 for a test run. The system crashed within 10 min.

Upped voltage on my DDR to 1.46V. This seems to solve the game crashing issues. Battlefield 5 and Destiny 2 are running nicely.


----------



## munternet

Intrud3r said:


> Mine are not B-die's, I've got Hynix AFR/CFR chips ...
> Already tried 16-21-21, but that was a no go. GSAT threw errors at me. So I went back to 16-22-22.
> 
> *Started up Battlefield 5 for a test run. The system crashed within 10 min.*
> 
> Upped voltage on my DDR to 1.46V. This seems to solve the game crashing issues. Battlefield 5 and Destiny 2 are running nicely.


Yes Battlefield....the ultimate test


----------



## Intrud3r

Upped TREFI a bit more, actually had it for a short time at 65534, but I went and changed some other settings which totally messed up my system, PCI device needs to be repaired screens, not posting at all ... took me a while to actually get it to work again (didn't even wanna boot from a usb stick if it actually posted), had to loosen timings a lot and at first that even didn't help. At some point it wanted to post again, actually boot into windows and be stable again ... Funny how that worked.

Decided to leave TREFI at 31200 and tried to lower TRFC a bit more (520 --> 480)
That didn't work, had trouble training, didn't post.

Jumped back to TRFC = 520 and upped TREFI to 40960 and it's running nicely.


----------



## moorhen2

Intrud3r said:


> Upped TREFI a bit more, actually had it for a short time at 65534, but I went and changed some other settings which totally messed up my system, PCI device needs to be repaired screens, not posting at all ... took me a while to actually get it to work again (didn't even wanna boot from a usb stick if it actually posted), had to loosen timings a lot and at first that even didn't help. At some point it wanted to post again, actually boot into windows and be stable again ... Funny how that worked.
> 
> Decided to leave TREFI at 31200 and tried to lower TRFC a bit more (520 --> 480)
> That didn't work, had trouble training, didn't post.
> 
> Jumped back to TRFC = 520 and upped TREFI to 40960 and it's running nicely.


Why is your uncore running at well below stock for a 9900k.


----------



## moorhen2

My new 9900K RO Stepping has a better IMC than my PO Stepping one.


----------



## Intrud3r

moorhen2 said:


> Why is your uncore running at well below stock for a 9900k.


It's running at 4.8 Ghz, but AIDA shows different values almost every time I start it. Prolly cause I have my c-states / intel speedstep etc enabled which lowers my clocks.
Sometimes it even shows my cpu running at 3.6 Ghz core, sometimes 4.7 ...


----------



## moorhen2

Three hours of Ramtest finished at 4600, cache at 48.


----------



## Nizzen

moorhen2 said:


> Three hours of Ramtest finished at 4600, cache at 48.


Nice result 

What VCCSA and VCCIO "voltage" do you have?


----------



## moorhen2

Nizzen said:


> Nice result
> 
> What VCCSA and VCCIO "voltage" do you have?


IO is at 1.30v, SA at 1.33v.


----------



## Imprezzion

So, 4600 at 18-19-19 has higher bandwidth and lower latency than my 4220 17-17-17. Hmm.

I know I can't run 16 on 4220 but what if I can run 18 on 4600.. that would help a lot lol.

Is that with custom or auto secondaries / tertiaries and RTL/IO?


----------



## SoldierRBT

moorhen2 said:


> Three hours of Ramtest finished at 4600, cache at 48.


Awesome result. Try mode 2. It would change your RTL/IO timings to 66/67/7/7 and reduce latency


----------



## moorhen2

Imprezzion said:


> So, 4600 at 18-19-19 has higher bandwidth and lower latency than my 4220 17-17-17. Hmm.
> 
> I know I can't run 16 on 4220 but what if I can run 18 on 4600.. that would help a lot lol.
> 
> Is that with custom or auto secondaries / tertiaries and RTL/IO?


All are set manually, apart from tWR, which is controlled by tWRPRE.


----------



## Intrud3r

Funny thing btw how my board (Aorus Ultra) reacts after I change a memory timing setting and it has to train the memory at startup.

After succesfull training of selected speed and timings I notice my Rtt values are different then after I reboot without saving the bios (memory boot = auto), without changes it will not train again and just run the new settings ... I check my Rtt values and they are different then right after I had a succesfull training.

After succesfull training:
60
60
120
120
40
40

After rebooting, without changing anything, after the training:
60
60
60
60
40
40

This happens everytime I train succesfully at different speeds and timings. These values remain like this after every reboot till I start changing stuff so it has to train again.
(at least these are the values shown behind the "Auto" setting, assuming that is what the board sets it to)


----------



## Intrud3r

btw ... 4000 C16-22-22-520-40960 @ 1.460V was no success. Destiny 2 struggled for about half an hour I was playing it (wasn't as fluent as before) and Battlefield 5 showed the same struggling till it crashed my system about 10 min into the battle. The games ran nicely ... but there was just a ... just a .... some sort of .... it was just not right. (and I noticed my framerate was lower then I expected it to be, however it ran nicely)

Backed down to 4000 C16-22-22-520-31200 @ 1.460V which runs perfectly again. Battlefield 5 and Destiny 2 are running as fluent as before (framerate is back to where it belongs).


----------



## moorhen2

SoldierRBT said:


> Awesome result. Try mode 2. It would change your RTL/IO timings to 66/67/7/7 and reduce latency


Wrong, Mode two only changes RTL D1's, D0's stay the same. IO-L's stay the same


----------



## moorhen2

Only difference between M1 and M2 is .2 latency.


----------



## swddeluxx

The Asus Tweak Modes are predefined presets for memory sub-settings and timings and *Skew depending*.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/27874038-post8351.html


----------



## SoldierRBT

moorhen2 said:


> SoldierRBT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome result. Try mode 2. It would change your RTL/IO timings to 66/67/7/7 and reduce latency
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, Mode two only changes RTL D1's, D0's stay the same. IO-L's stay the same
Click to expand...

Mode 1 + Round Trip Latency enable should do the trick.


----------



## Imprezzion

K forget it. I cannot for the life of me get 4600Mhz to even boot at any timing or voltage. IMC on this 9900K P0 is just too bad to run 4600Mhz. It takes 1.38v IO 1.34v SA to run 4220 stable and 1.40v on both to even remotely boot or run 4400 let alone 4600. 

The clocks / timings i'm on on 4220 are the best i'll ever get with this CPU. Well, shame.


----------



## Jpmboy

moorhen2 said:


> My new 9900K RO Stepping has a better IMC than my PO Stepping one.


R0 eh... hmmm.


----------



## moorhen2

Jpmboy said:


> R0 eh... hmmm.


That should be D stepping RO revision, the older ones are C stepping and PO revision, the new KS will be on the D stepping and RO revision.


----------



## moorhen2

Imprezzion said:


> K forget it. I cannot for the life of me get 4600Mhz to even boot at any timing or voltage. IMC on this 9900K P0 is just too bad to run 4600Mhz. It takes 1.38v IO 1.34v SA to run 4220 stable and 1.40v on both to even remotely boot or run 4400 let alone 4600.
> 
> The clocks / timings i'm on on 4220 are the best i'll ever get with this CPU. Well, shame.


It's more likely your ram is not capable 0f 4600 to be honest.


----------



## moorhen2

On to 4700, no changes in bios, or timings, voltages the same as well. Quick Aida run, on to Ramtest now.


----------



## moorhen2

Well 4700 is a no go, boots up fine, and will do the Aida64 cache and memory benchmark. Ramtest gets to 7% and stops, and the dreaded "system_thread_exception BSOD. Tried loosening timings etc, voltage, IO and SA, but no chance. I do believe that this kit is at its limit frequency wise, its a highly binned 4500 Samsung b-die kit, so 4600 is probably its highest frequency, without insane voltages of course.


----------



## Imprezzion

moorhen2 said:


> It's more likely your ram is not capable 0f 4600 to be honest.


Even if they don't seem to POST/ train on 4600 21-23-23?

It is a pretty low bin B-Die honestly but i had hopes and dreams lol.
It's a Vengeance 3600C18 kit with B-Die's. I guess I should be happy with 4220 17-17-17.


----------



## moorhen2

Imprezzion said:


> Even if they don't seem to POST/ train on 4600 21-23-23?
> 
> It is a pretty low bin B-Die honestly but i had hopes and dreams lol.
> It's a Vengeance 3600C18 kit with B-Die's. I guess I should be happy with 4220 17-17-17.


Not all Samsung B-Dies will be capable of high frequencies, like CPU's, its a lottery. But 4220 c17 is not too shabby. Have you tried 4300, as some dividers are better than others, and upping the bus clock can cause all sorts of problems.


----------



## Imprezzion

moorhen2 said:


> Not all Samsung B-Dies will be capable of high frequencies, like CPU's, its a lottery. But 4220 c17 is not too shabby. Have you tried 4300, as some dividers are better than others, and upping the bus clock can cause all sorts of problems.


Nah. I don't really even remember why I upped the bus.. most likely because I was going for 5.1Ghz CPU HT On and couldn't do it on multi alone so tried 50x102 and didn't work but in some random testing found out that 50x100.5 ran fine with memory and bus at +25 too at the same voltages needed for 100.0 so just... Kept it there. Free performance yah? Hehe.

I can try 4300 on 100.0 or even 4320 on 100.5 maybe? I mean, my DRAM voltage is dangerously high already (1.55v) so no room there to "help" the chips a little. They can run 4220 17-17-17 all day in loose secondary timings at 1.45v but not with the tight secondary / tertiary timings I run now. Especially tRTP, tRFC and tREFI kill my OC on lower voltages. 

Time for some more testing in a sec I guess. (Would 4400 C18-19-19 be faster than 4200C17-17-17?)


----------



## swddeluxx

4400 CL 17-18-18-36 *1T* :guitar:

One Hour GSAT


----------



## Imprezzion

1T?! Wow. And on a C stepping P0 chip on only 1,3v SA and IO. Dude you got lucky lol. I can't even do 1T on stock memory frequency lol.


----------



## Jpmboy

... and that Genie XI has a great memory layout. 9900Ks are doing 1T at those frequencies on the genie and apex. Check back in this thread.


----------



## _AntLionBR_

*_AntLionBR_*



Jpmboy said:


> first try lowering tRTP (you can go as low as 4, possibly 3), then once you have a good RTP, you can set tRAS to cas+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2)
> 
> Next: lower RRD_S to 6 or 4, then set tFAW to 4xRRD_S
> 
> Test stability (quickly) at each stage. Also, you really want to know if any of thee are improving performance... AID64 membench, or something.


Sorry for my misunderstanding. I don't understand English very much. I don't understand when you say that:



Code:


set tRAS to cas+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2)




Code:


... then set tFAW to 4xRRD_S

What would this calculation look like?

I managed to improve a little more.

- tRRDL: 12 to 6;
- tRRDS: 12 to 6;
- tRTP: 8 (I tried to slow down, but kept restarting the computer several times).
- tWRRD_sg: AUTO; (I'm having problems too, from the error under 1min in RAM Test under 28).
- tWRRD_dg: 23;
- tRDWR_sg: 12;
- tRDWR_dg: 12;
- tWRPRE: 30;


----------



## Apothysis

Bit of a long shot as dualranks are anything but popular but I'm struggling to get G.skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZR (dual-rank B-die) going at anything above 3800MHz.


Right now I'm running them as tight as they'll go @ 1.4v and 1.2 VCCIO/VCCSA (3800 16-15-33, increasing voltages beyond added nothing).


So far I've tried up to 1.5V DRAM 1.4V VCCIO/VCCSA and it's not stable into Windows. I'm a bit scared going above this for a 24/7 setup for VCCIO/VCCSA. I'm running them on an XI Apex (QVL) with a 9900K. Is the IMC holding me back or are there any secondary timing that I should tune manually to make things easier?


----------



## Falkentyne

Apothysis said:


> Bit of a long shot as dualranks are anything but popular but I'm struggling to get G.skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZR (dual-rank B-die) going at anything above 3800MHz.
> 
> 
> Right now I'm running them as tight as they'll go @ 1.4v and 1.2 VCCIO/VCCSA (3800 16-15-33, increasing voltages beyond added nothing).
> 
> 
> So far I've tried up to 1.5V DRAM 1.4V VCCIO/VCCSA and it's not stable into Windows. I'm a bit scared going above this for a 24/7 setup for VCCIO/VCCSA. I'm running them on an XI Apex (QVL) with a 9900K. Is the IMC holding me back or are there any secondary timing that I should tune manually to make things easier?


Dual rank kits won't clock anywhere near what single rank kits will clock at. Buildzoid couldln't even get them running at 1T command rate at higher than 3466 on any motherboard.


----------



## Jpmboy

_AntLionBR_ said:


> Sorry for my misunderstanding. I don't understand English very much. I don't understand when you say that:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> set tRAS to cas+tRCD+tRTP (+/-2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ... then set tFAW to 4xRRD_S
> 
> What would this calculation look like?
> 
> I managed to improve a little more.
> 
> - tRRDL: 12 to 6;
> - tRRDS: 12 to 6;
> - tRTP: 8 (I tried to slow down, but kept restarting the computer several times).
> - tWRRD_sg: AUTO; (I'm having problems too, from the error under 1min in RAM Test under 28).
> - tWRRD_dg: 23;
> - tRDWR_sg: 12;
> - tRDWR_dg: 12;
> - tWRPRE: 30;


 THe yellow highlighted numbers in the pic below are the ones for the tRAS window. RAS needs to be open for all three operations to complete, otherwise the window closes and the row read cycle starts again. Too low will cause loss of efficieny or a failure, too high and it looses efficiency (speed). JUst lower in until it becomes unstable or slows "read" measurements.

"_TRAS is the minimum number of cycles that a row has to be active for to ensure we'll have enough time to access the information that's in it. This usually needs to be greater than or equal to the sum of the previous three latencies (tRAS = tCL + tRCD + tRP)_"


If your Bios does not have tRRD_s just use 4x "tRRD" for the tFAW value.


----------



## swddeluxx

4533 CL17 *1T* :sonic:


----------



## chibi

swddeluxx said:


> 4533 CL17 *1T* :sonic:



Sub 35ns is a great accomplishment, good to see you don't have to push obscene sa/io voltages at that frequency and timings. Good work! :thumb:


----------



## Imprezzion

swddeluxx said:


> 4533 CL17 *1T* :sonic:


That is mighty impressive. Great RTL's as well. What you could try to do is lower tCWL slightly more as 16 is good but might have some room left in it? 

I am however quite curious how your tRD's are all on 0 lol. Seems a bit wierd to me lol but probably nothing...


----------



## Apothysis

Falkentyne said:


> Dual rank kits won't clock anywhere near what single rank kits will clock at. Buildzoid couldln't even get them running at 1T command rate at higher than 3466 on any motherboard.



Oh yeah, fully aware of that of course. The Apex is just so full of options that have little to no documentation so I figured I'd reach out anyway. Things like RTL obviously have impact on stability and then there's the Skew Control-section.. I'm mainly curious whether there's any setting that the motherboard has trouble auto-setting to be compatible with dual rank kits near and above 4000. I sent an email to G.Skill in the hopes for some pointers since they obviously managed it even at 1.35V. Might just be an IMC lottery thing. It's worth reaching out either way.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

This whole time I thought I had some B-Die sticks, the famed 3600Mhz CL15 G. Skill Zs. What do you guys think about D-Die? They seem to clock like B-Die. Will probably go for some Royal Golds G. Skills of some sort later on, 4600-4800MHz sticks maybe(run them lower speed/tight on x299)


----------



## Imprezzion

Apothysis said:


> Oh yeah, fully aware of that of course. The Apex is just so full of options that have little to no documentation so I figured I'd reach out anyway. Things like RTL obviously have impact on stability and then there's the Skew Control-section.. I'm mainly curious whether there's any setting that the motherboard has trouble auto-setting to be compatible with dual rank kits near and above 4000. I sent an email to G.Skill in the hopes for some pointers since they obviously managed it even at 1.35V. Might just be an IMC lottery thing. It's worth reaching out either way.


IMC lottery can usually be circumvented by yeeting a bunch of IO/SA voltage on it and not running a too high cache frequency but only to a certain point. For example my IMC isn't the best either but running 1.38 IO 1.34 SA will allow me to get decent clocks out of the RAM regardless. 

Only thing on my own system I'm a bit worried about is the fact I run 1.554v DRAM voltage on my B-Die's. Is that considered *too* much or is that still in the reasonable territory as in, with good temps it won't cause too much voltage degradation right away. I don't mind shorter lifespan, that's part of overclocking on the edge but there's no need to overdo it for a few nanoseconds of improvement.


----------



## JoeRambo

swddeluxx said:


> 4533 CL17 *1T* :sonic:


 Wow, this is insane, sub 35ns is awesome. Any special magic settings that help with 1T operation, or is this memory/IMC luck thingie?







Imprezzion said:


> I am however quite curious how your tRD's are all on 0 lol. Seems a bit wierd to me lol but probably nothing...



Those are logical, as DD means different DIMM and DR means different rank. So for single rank, 1DPC they don't do anything.


Except of course when i try to change them, it somehow throws memory training off and fails to boot completely. So much for theory i guess


----------



## Imprezzion

I have single rank Vengeance B-Die's and changing my DR timings totally causes a non-POST scenario with BIOS profile recovery page as well lol.

I'm going to try to tweak them tonight just because I'm bored and because I can.. I run a relatively high 15-15-16-16-22-29 now so might be some room in that as I can do like 11-12-11-12-21-25 on 4000Mhz.


----------



## swddeluxx

and 4533 CL17 1T stable :drum:

1 Hour GSAT


----------



## Imprezzion

But can it run crysis. Nah no joke, I test my ram quite a bit more intensively than 1 hour of GSAT. I only consider ram remotely stable if it can run >1500% HCI Ramtest at at least 12GB from the 16GB i have.


----------



## swddeluxx

it is one hour GSAT with 13GB Test im Screen.


----------



## Intrud3r

Imprezzion said:


> But can it run crysis. Nah no joke, I test my ram quite a bit more intensively than 1 hour of GSAT. I only consider ram remotely stable if it can run >1500% HCI Ramtest at at least 12GB from the 16GB i have.


All nice and dandy ... but I tested my 4000Mhz 16-22-22 and it passed HCI memtest with some instances actually finishing 2000% and some still crunching on about at 1600% without any errors ... 

GSAT threw 2 hardware errors at me within 45 min.

I'll stick with GSAT.


----------



## moorhen2

Intrud3r said:


> All nice and dandy ... but I tested my 4000Mhz 16-22-22 and it passed HCI memtest with some instances actually finishing 2000% and some still crunching on about at 1600% without any errors ...
> 
> GSAT threw 2 hardware errors at me within 45 min.
> 
> I'll stick with GSAT.


That's all well and good, but GSAT doesn't stress the cache as far as I know, Ramtest does.


----------



## Imprezzion

Yup, and that's how i found out i can't run 4.8 cache. It runs fine in games (mostly) and runs fine in Prime95 Small FFT too but 4.8 cache cannot handle HCI. I have to downgrade to 4.7 to not get random errors. 

I dropped my tRDWR from 15-15-16-16 to 14-14-15-15 and so far tests and trains fine. Not a "big" difference, i doubt i can even bench any difference, but still, improvement is improvement  

I can get to low 38ns latency on 4220CL17 2T which isn't bad however i can't really find any improvement in my RTL / IO so far.. 

I managed to drop RTL to 67 from 69 which is the "optimized default" but any other adjustment doesn't POST... 
Also, IO-L / IO-L offset is something i don't really seem to understand as i can just use IO-L on 1 just fine and offset is 21 and ANY other thing i set won't POST...


----------



## Intrud3r

Imprezzion said:


> Yup, and that's how i found out i can't run 4.8 cache. It runs fine in games (mostly) and runs fine in Prime95 Small FFT too but 4.8 cache cannot handle HCI. I have to downgrade to 4.7 to not get random errors.
> 
> I dropped my tRDWR from 15-15-16-16 to 14-14-15-15 and so far tests and trains fine. Not a "big" difference, i doubt i can even bench any difference, but still, improvement is improvement
> 
> I can get to low 38ns latency on 4220CL17 2T which isn't bad however i can't really find any improvement in my RTL / IO so far..
> 
> I managed to drop RTL to 67 from 69 which is the "optimized default" but any other adjustment doesn't POST...
> Also, IO-L / IO-L offset is something i don't really seem to understand as i can just use IO-L on 1 just fine and offset is 21 and ANY other thing i set won't POST...


Hmm ... maybe a good idea to run HCI again then, as I switched to 4.8 cache recently ... games run fine, GSAT runs fine for 1 hour ... have not tested hci yet .... something to do in the weekend.


----------



## moorhen2

Imprezzion said:


> Yup, and that's how i found out i can't run 4.8 cache. It runs fine in games (mostly) and runs fine in Prime95 Small FFT too but 4.8 cache cannot handle HCI. I have to downgrade to 4.7 to not get random errors.
> 
> I dropped my tRDWR from 15-15-16-16 to 14-14-15-15 and so far tests and trains fine. Not a "big" difference, i doubt i can even bench any difference, but still, improvement is improvement
> 
> I can get to low 38ns latency on 4220CL17 2T which isn't bad however i can't really find any improvement in my RTL / IO so far..
> 
> I managed to drop RTL to 67 from 69 which is the "optimized default" but any other adjustment doesn't POST...
> Also, IO-L / IO-L offset is something i don't really seem to understand as i can just use IO-L on 1 just fine and offset is 21 and ANY other thing i set won't POST...


If your RTL's and IOL's aren't aligning on their own, it's probably training, VDIMM, SA, IO should be the first things to look at.

I see you are using a four dimm slot board, will always be harder to overclock memory unfortunately.


----------



## Imprezzion

moorhen2 said:


> If your RTL's and IOL's aren't aligning on their own, it's probably training, VDIMM, SA, IO should be the first things to look at.
> 
> I see you are using a four dimm slot board, will always be harder to overclock memory unfortunately.


True. I bought this board pure for looks and for MSI Mystic Sync RGB as it's optimized for my entire build. I mean, besides the decidedly mediocre VRM for the price it's a very nice and stable board but of course an Apex will run rings around it.

They do align fine on Auto, "optimized" and 67 but that's where it ends. I see people with 4400Mhz+ running 60-61 RTL meanwhile I'm stuck on 67 lol. Let's not talk about voltages tho. I'm scared enough as it is. IO is on 1.38v SA on 1.34v, VDIMM at 1.554v. Any less on either and memory starts to error. This clock/timing combination is quite on the edge of things really.


----------



## moorhen2

Imprezzion said:


> True. I bought this board pure for looks and for MSI Mystic Sync RGB as it's optimized for my entire build. I mean, besides the decidedly mediocre VRM for the price it's a very nice and stable board but of course an Apex will run rings around it.
> 
> They do align fine on Auto, "optimized" and 67 but that's where it ends. I see people with 4400Mhz+ running 60-61 RTL meanwhile I'm stuck on 67 lol. Let's not talk about voltages tho. I'm scared enough as it is. IO is on 1.38v SA on 1.34v, VDIMM at 1.554v. Any less on either and memory starts to error. This clock/timing combination is quite on the edge of things really.


That's a lot of V's your running, sometimes less is more, especially on the IO and SA rails, have you tried lower on these, say starting with 1.2v on both. ?


----------



## Imprezzion

moorhen2 said:


> That's a lot of V's your running, sometimes less is more, especially on the IO and SA rails, have you tried lower on these, say starting with 1.2v on both. ?


Yeah I did. I had 3800 C14 first, was fine at 1.2v there. Then went to 4000 C15, wouldn't even POST. Set all timings to 20 and went from there. Found that at 1.25v it POST but very unstable. 1.28v IO 1.26v SA made it complete Prime95 a few hours but not error free in HCI. 1.30v IO 1.28v SA made it complete 2000% 8 hours HCI on C15. Stepped up to 4200 with 19-22-22 to eliminate timings and again, non-POST. 1.35v IO 1.30v SA made it boot but not stable. 1.38v IO 1.34v SA made it stable at any timings.

I started at 4220 18-19-19 with Auto subtimings and "optimized" RTL @ 1.40v VDIMM. Then started dropping timings and found the spot it needed more voltage. Ended up on 4220 17-17-17-34-280-2T 46800 tREFI with very tight manual subtimings but it needed a whopping 1.554v to run those subtimings. .

Ran this for a few months now with CPU at 5.025Ghz 1.23-1.24v with 4.725Ghz cache and it survived every stresstest imaginable (ran 24h Prime AVX Blend, 8 hours of LinX AVX, 2200% HCI) and many many many hours of gaming without even 1 single crash, BSOD or WHEA error. 

Temps are fine, CPU barely hit 80c peak in all above tests and RAM sits around 47-49c. Added a 120mm blowing on the RAM and mostly low 40's now. 

4400 can work as I tested a few times but it needs even more. More along the lines of 1.43v IO 1.38v SA. 
This CPU really isn't happy with the IMC. 


I wanted to test another 9900K Sample but the newer stepping wasn't out yet and this CPU clocks pretty good in terms of core OC so I kept it. Lapped it as well as a delid doesn't help much. Hard to sell now.

My backup RAM is a set of Vengeance RGB Hynix BFR(?) which are frequency limited at about 3400 but do stupid low timings at 3000 (10-12-12-28-400-1T) so they don't stress the IMC at all. Runs fine on stock 0.95 & 1.05v.


----------



## amd955be5670

I seem to be having a strange issue with my Z370 Fatality K6. The memory loses scaling in performance for write & copy after 3333Mhz. I've got dual rank Micron E-Rev 16GBx2 sticks. I investigated subtimings for 3333mhz and applied them to 3400~3800 but it still doesn't work. After 3333Mhz the performance drops off a cliff but slowly rises till 3733Mhz. Board does not POST at 3800mhz and above. I've also tried FSB overclocking, but it doesn't work. 

I feel like its a shame because I had higher expectations from RevE. I want to buy a new Z390 board but hard on cash.

The good news is I managed 14-17-17-34-1T-515tRFC stable at 1.385V, 3333MHz. I haven't tightened the tertiary timings yet.

I did my testing on P3.30, and had the same issues on P4.0. Kind of afraid to upgrade to P4.10 as I see Taichi owners reporting issues on it.

3200Mhz - 47523 | 48213 | 45040 | 48.8 [XMP 16-18-18-38]
3333Mhz - 50624 | 51894 | 47770 | 44.7 [14-17-17-34] (1.1V IO & SA, 1.385V DRAM)
3400Mhz - 51023 | 35129 | 39658 | 46.5 [16-18-18-36] (1.1V IO & SA, 1.385V DRAM)
3733Mhz - 55403 | 38572 | 42760 | 44.5 [16-18-18-36] (1.3V IO & SA, 1.480V DRAM)

I feel like its a shame because I've got Micron Rev.E which can supposedly push higher. Other specs are 5.0Ghz 8700k, 1.3V, 4.8Ghz RingBus. Any better board recommendations? I know Apex gets touted a lot, but its not available with any retailer in India.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> Yup, and that's how i found out i can't run 4.8 cache. It runs fine in games (mostly) and runs fine in Prime95 Small FFT too but 4.8 cache cannot handle HCI. I have to downgrade to 4.7 to not get random errors.
> 
> I dropped my tRDWR from 15-15-16-16 to 14-14-15-15 and so far tests and trains fine. Not a "big" difference, i doubt i can even bench any difference, but still, improvement is improvement
> 
> I can get to low 38ns latency on 4220CL17 2T which isn't bad however i can't really find any improvement in my RTL / IO so far..
> 
> I managed to drop RTL to 67 from 69 which is the "optimized default" but any other adjustment doesn't POST...
> Also, IO-L / IO-L offset is something i don't really seem to understand as i can just use IO-L on 1 just fine and offset is 21 and ANY other thing i set won't POST...


Prime95 29.8 build 6 AVX disabled 112k FFT (in place) tests the cache.


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> Prime95 29.8 build 6 AVX disabled 112k FFT (in place) tests the cache.


Tested mine @ 5.1 / 4.8 ... 10 min was no problem. How long would you say shows enough stability?

P.S.
Started lowering my voltages as I was trying 4000Mhz 16-22-22, but that seems to be a no go ... so I'm settling at 4000Mhz 17-22-22 and that let's me lower voltages considerably.

Tested GSAT / HCI coming from 1.330 VCCIO / VCCSA down to 1.250 for both with DDR voltage dropped by 0.010V at 5.1 / 4.7 --> that ran nicely without any problems.

So now I upped my cache speed to 4.8 again and started to test prime. Tonight I'll let GSAT run with 1.250V VCCIO / VCCSA and DDR voltage of 1.440V and see how it fares.

After that HCI for a spin and if that finishes nicely without errors, i'll go down to 1.200V VCCIO / VCCSA with DDR of 1.430V etc etc etc


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> Tested mine @ 5.1 / 4.8 ... 10 min was no problem. How long would you say shows enough stability?


Two hours.
10 minutes is nowhere near enough.
I've seen CPU L0 errors or "System service exception" errors from too low VCCIO happen around the 1 hour mark before.


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Two hours.
> 10 minutes is nowhere near enough.
> I've seen CPU L0 errors or "System service exception" errors from too low VCCIO happen around the 1 hour mark before.


If he thinks it's enough, it's enough for him


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> Two hours.
> 10 minutes is nowhere near enough.
> I've seen CPU L0 errors or "System service exception" errors from too low VCCIO happen around the 1 hour mark before.


Got ya (and edited my former message, just as a FYI)


----------



## Intrud3r

Nizzen said:


> If he thinks it's enough, it's enough for him


Nah ... I'll trust his judgement.


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> Nah ... I'll trust his judgement.


It's kind of tricky since I/O controls both the IMC and L3 cache.

I found situations where the 256K-512K prime95 SSE2 range would crash threads despite the much lower temps compared to small FFT SSE2, which I *only* encountered when trying to run the DDR4 at 3600 15/15/15/36, 1.40v. And I knew it was IMC/RAM because Overwatch was randomly crashing to desktop when ambient temps got warmer and the RAM heated up. Raising VCCIO and VCCSA from 1.10v / 1.15v, to 1.20v / 1.25v stopped those crashes. So that was clearly IMC (since I didn't raise the DDR voltage during that test from 1.40v). And it happened also when I set a small system memory space to test (In place FFT disabled), although I forgot how much I set aside.

With the 112K FFT SSE2 prime95 crashes, Overwatch never crashed at all, and small FFT (<96K) never crashed either. So that couldn't be RAM. It had to be L3 cache. I verified that by setting VCCIO to 0.95v and waiting for the L0 errors, which eventually came. Then set it to 1.15v, and no I/O errors after 2 hours, which is good enough for me. What was noteworthy here was that I thought it was vcore, but I noticed the same crashes from (Bios set) 1.265v LLC Turbo, all the way up to 1.290v LLC Turbo! And this wasn't even an AVX test. I had to go all the way up to 1.295v Bios set (30mv increase) to not have this happen. But when I simply raised VCCIO, those errors stopped also. So it was pretty clear it was L3 related (with the hyperthreaded cores and virtualized register store, because the L0 cache is the virtualized register store duplicated for physical and logical threads--that's why you almost never see L0 errors if hyperthreading is disabled--instead you just get a classic old clock watchdog timeout or WHEA uncorrectable error).


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> It's kind of tricky since I/O controls both the IMC and L3 cache.
> 
> I found situations where the 256K-512K prime95 SSE2 range would crash threads despite the much lower temps compared to small FFT SSE2, which I *only* encountered when trying to run the DDR4 at 3600 15/15/15/36, 1.40v. And I knew it was IMC/RAM because Overwatch was randomly crashing to desktop when ambient temps got warmer and the RAM heated up. Raising VCCIO and VCCSA from 1.10v / 1.15v, to 1.20v / 1.25v stopped those crashes. So that was clearly IMC (since I didn't raise the DDR voltage during that test from 1.40v). And it happened also when I set a small system memory space to test (In place FFT disabled), although I forgot how much I set aside.
> 
> With the 112K FFT SSE2 prime95 crashes, Overwatch never crashed at all, and small FFT (<96K) never crashed either. So that couldn't be RAM. It had to be L3 cache. I verified that by setting VCCIO to 0.95v and waiting for the L0 errors, which eventually came. Then set it to 1.15v, and no I/O errors after 2 hours, which is good enough for me. What was noteworthy here was that I thought it was vcore, but I noticed the same crashes from (Bios set) 1.265v LLC Turbo, all the way up to 1.290v LLC Turbo! And this wasn't even an AVX test. I had to go all the way up to 1.295v Bios set (30mv increase) to not have this happen. But when I simply raised VCCIO, those errors stopped also. So it was pretty clear it was L3 related (with the hyperthreaded cores and virtualized register store, because the L0 cache is the virtualized register store duplicated for physical and logical threads--that's why you almost never see L0 errors if hyperthreading is disabled--instead you just get a classic old clock watchdog timeout or WHEA uncorrectable error).


So would you say that testing the following should show me stable?

Prime 112k in place fft for 2 hours
HCI memtest till +1000% on all instances
GSAT for 1 hour

This after each time lowering voltages (VCCIO / VCCSA / DDR)

???

(purely memory / cache related, as cpu core is ok at this speed and voltage)


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> So would you say that testing the following should show me stable?
> 
> Prime 112k in place fft for 2 hours
> HCI memtest till +1000% on all instances
> GSAT for 1 hour
> 
> This after each time lowering voltages (VCCIO / VCCSA / DDR)
> 
> ???
> 
> (purely memory / cache related, as cpu core is ok at this speed and voltage)


Every system is different but I would say that's realistic.
(AVX disabled 112K). And I would avoid prime95 versions older than the newest version.

You also need some sort of AVX stress test to check for L0 errors.
Realbench 2.56, Blender (Classroom) and X.264 stress test and Cinebench R20 (7200 seconds custom loop) without L0 errors appearing in HWinfo64 is realistic.

If you have hyperthreading enabled, I would avoid (in order of power virus absurdity from easiest to hardest), Y-cruncher stress test (test #12 is as hard or harder to pass than AVX Small FFT Prime95!), Prime95 29.8 build 6 small FFT AVX, small FFT FMA3, LinX 0.9.6 with 35000 size (uses Intel Linpack binaries), unless you are delidded with Direct Die and some 360 rads. Intel uses linpack to validate their own CPU's so of course this is going to be the worst case test known to man.
If you aren't delidded, you can expect temps anywhere from 85C to 115C depending on your cooling. These tests can easily pull 180+ amps of current at >1.220v (load after vdroop) on-die sense voltage.

These tests are a lot easier to pass with hyperthreading disabled.

I think more people should look at the newest prime95 for RAM/IMC/cache testing. If used right it can find errors as fast as GSAT. Older versions were a bit rougher.


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> Every system is different but I would say that's realistic.
> (AVX disabled 112K). And I would avoid prime95 versions older than the newest version.
> 
> You also need some sort of AVX stress test to check for L0 errors.
> Realbench 2.56, Blender (Classroom) and X.264 stress test and Cinebench R20 (7200 seconds custom loop) without L0 errors appearing in HWinfo64 is realistic.
> 
> If you have hyperthreading enabled, I would avoid (in order of power virus absurdity from easiest to hardest), Y-cruncher stress test (test #12 is as hard or harder to pass than AVX Small FFT Prime95!), Prime95 29.8 build 6 small FFT AVX, small FFT FMA3, LinX 0.9.6 with 35000 size (uses Intel Linpack binaries), unless you are delidded with Direct Die and some 360 rads. Intel uses linpack to validate their own CPU's so of course this is going to be the worst case test known to man.
> If you aren't delidded, you can expect temps anywhere from 85C to 115C depending on your cooling. These tests can easily pull 180+ amps of current at >1.220v (load after vdroop) on-die sense voltage.
> 
> These tests are a lot easier to pass with hyperthreading disabled.
> 
> I think more people should look at the newest prime95 for RAM/IMC/cache testing. If used right it can find errors as fast as GSAT. Older versions were a bit rougher.


Running the latest Prime95 29.8b6 112K no avx indeed
Realbench would be easiest for me ... 2 hours I guess.

Don't have hyperthreading enabled atm, too much enjoying the games being more fluent. You can really notice it on my system (cpu has more then enough voltage then needed with HT enabled when I'm running like that)

Gives me something to do again  was almost getting bored ... 
Lowering voltages it is ... and testing accordingly

Hardware is btw almost exactly 1 year old (apart from the gpu)


----------



## Jpmboy

MrTOOSHORT said:


> This whole time I thought I had some B-Die sticks, the famed 3600Mhz CL15 G. Skill Zs. What do you guys think about D-Die? They seem to clock like B-Die. Will probably go for some Royal Golds G. Skills of some sort later on, 4600-4800MHz sticks maybe(run them lower speed/tight on x299)


 x299 right? which versions of TB have you tried? https://www.overclock.net/forum/28068820-post95.html

edit: NVM, my 3600c15s are D and 17nm. Praz has said these are a higher bin than 3600c16 B-die (20nm) - and everything I've done with them supports that... it's the etching size. Always "knew" they were Bs too. 



I've had 4 3600c15 sticks running 4000c16 at 1.41V on the APEX VI well, forever now (lately 24/7 on *milkyway*). 2 different sticks in the APEX X at anywhere from 3866c14 to 4400c16 stable. 4400c16 on the D-die run the same as 4800c18 royals (but only need 1.5V vs 1.52V), 3200c14 (GS Flare-X for AMD) and 3600c16 B-die on the APEX X. I have 8 8GB 360016 sticks in the "cupboard" waiting for the 10980XE to launch, both go in the R6EO... my 9900X died and Intel gave me a refund of purchase cost (= new 10980XE it seems :worriedsm:worriedsm )
Had to DL the new TB on a machine w/o malwarebytes!


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Hey thanks for the info Jpmboy, feel better about the d-dies now. Knew they were good as they do whatever I need them to do 24/7 or benching wise.

I have this version:


----------



## Intrud3r

Lowered my voltages already quite a bit.

Came from 1.330V IO and SA for testing C16.
Running C17 now on the following:

VCCIO = 1.200V (1.177-1.188V)
VCCSA = 1.200V (1.200-1.212V)
DDR = 1.400V (1.392-1.404V)

Ran 1 hour GSAT = no errors
Ran about 6 hours of HCI memtest = no errors

Now only prime and realbench to finish and it should be good.


----------



## moorhen2

Didn't I say to lower your IO and SA voltages before ?


----------



## Intrud3r

moorhen2 said:


> Didn't I say to lower your IO and SA voltages before ?


Yah, but I was testing C16 which didn't wanna be stable ... So I upped them for testing that ...


----------



## BLUuuE

Jpmboy said:


> x299 right? which versions of TB have you tried? https://www.overclock.net/forum/28068820-post95.html
> 
> edit: NVM, my 3600c15s are D and 17nm. Praz has said these are a higher bin than 3600c16 B-die (20nm) - and everything I've done with them supports that... it's the etching size. Always "knew" they were Bs too.
> 
> 
> 
> I've had 4 3600c15 sticks running 4000c16 at 1.41V on the APEX VI well, forever now (lately 24/7 on *milkyway*). 2 different sticks in the APEX X at anywhere from 3866c14 to 4400c16 stable. 4400c16 on the D-die run the same as 4800c18 royals (but only need 1.5V vs 1.52V), 3200c14 (GS Flare-X for AMD) and 3600c16 B-die on the APEX X. I have 8 8GB 360016 sticks in the "cupboard" waiting for the 10980XE to launch, both go in the R6EO... my 9900X died and Intel gave me a refund of purchase cost (= new 10980XE it seems :worriedsm:worriedsm )
> Had to DL the new TB on a machine w/o malwarebytes!


Is there a 042 string on the label on the D-die stick?

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4#wiki_new_markings_-_.22042_code.22_table


----------



## Jpmboy

BLUuuE said:


> Is there a 042 string on the label on the D-die stick?
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4#wiki_new_markings_-_.22042_code.22_table


Yes. I can post up a pic if you want to take it over to reddit


----------



## lionc

After wasting more time with the memory settings I have finally found a stable configuration without auto (very high) secondary voltages. All the strange cache errors are also gone and the CPU runs a lot cooler.
This is on a Maximus X Hero with two sets of Gskill 4133-19-21-21-41.

24h Prime 29.8b6 stable and 24h GSAT stable, even with intentionally high RAM temps >55°C.
It won't set any records and some secondary and tertiary settings may seem loose but tightening didn't seem to yield a big advantage. CL15-16-16 would work but requires 1.5V and shows GSAT errors after a while.

tWR, tWTR_L and tWTR_S weren't adjusted directly but via the respective values that control them. RTLs and IOLs on auto with 16/16/14/14 offset. MCE Fast boot off, Full check on.
Maybe this helps somebody out there.


----------



## Imprezzion

lionc said:


> After wasting more time with the memory settings I have finally found a stable configuration without auto (very high) secondary voltages. All the strange cache errors are also gone and the CPU runs a lot cooler.
> This is on a Maximus X Hero with two sets of Gskill 4133-19-21-21-41.
> 
> 24h Prime 29.8b6 stable and 24h GSAT stable, even with intentionally high RAM temps >55°C.
> It won't set any records and some secondary and tertiary settings may seem loose but tightening didn't seem to yield a big advantage. CL15-16-16 would work but requires 1.5V and shows GSAT errors after a while.
> 
> tWR, tWTR_L and tWTR_S weren't adjusted directly but via the respective values that control them. RTLs and IOLs on auto with 16/16/14/14 offset. MCE Fast boot off, Full check on.
> Maybe this helps somebody out there.


Nice results for such a low IO/SA voltage.

Just to have something to tweak, the secondary and tertiary timings seem fine for the most part except 3 things that might yield a pretty big improvement still.

- tRAS should be 33-34 on these primary timings. 
- tRFC is "fine" but most kits will do around 270-280 with no issues on these clocks.
- tREFI double your current setting combined with 280 tRAS.
- tWR, can *probably* be lowered to ~14 using tWRPRE.
- tRTP drop to 6 or 8.
- tCKE 4 or 6 depending on what's stable. 

The rest is pretty well optimized honestly.


----------



## BLUuuE

Jpmboy said:


> Yes. I can post up a pic if you want to take it over to reddit


That'd be great if you could. :thumb:


----------



## swddeluxx

moorhen2 said:


> That's all well and good, but GSAT doesn't stress the cache as far as I know, Ramtest does.



Its correct, GSAT is absolutely perfect to find unstable(wrong/bad Timings), Karchu Mem Test or HCI Mem Test Pro is perfekt to find unstable cache Voltage or overheating from Ram Chips with tight Ram Settings or too high Ram Voltage.
There again the same one Hour GSAT Stress Test Screen as bevor AND one Hour Karchu Mem Test with my Setup:

Asus Maximum Gene XI (1302 Bios) 

9900K 5.0 GHz - AVX Offset 0 - 4.7GHz Cache - DRAM *4533 CL17 1T* with - 1.485vDimm :drum:



1 Hour GSAT 


Spoiler







1 Hour Karchu Mem Test ( and IO-L`s now are even better than before -5-5- ).


----------



## munternet

Updated my BIOS on Maximus X Hero and I'm not in Kansas anymore

Nothing flash but there are some strange numbers

Just tightened a few of them and tested for stability. Also raised the cache ratio to 46 but left a setting on auto in the bios. Fixed now but that tRAS has dropped by 10.
Also the main voltages seem more stable. I wonder if that is true on Asus across the board?


----------



## encrypted11

Moved on to dual rank CJR 16gb sticks.

They clocked better and require less voltage than my earlier single ranked CJR Bolt X's that stopped scaling beyond 4000MHz for GSAT stability regardless of voltage (no idea if it was the BIOS).
The 8GBx2 profile worked right away, so there must be better timing margins on these.


----------



## Jpmboy

BLUuuE said:


> That'd be great if you could. :thumb:


3600c15 and 3600c16. easy.


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm trying to get C16 to work on my poorly binned B-Die Vengeance RGB single rank sticks. They run 4220Mhz 17-17-17-34-280-2T just fine and the same timings on C16 are pretty close to stable and pass Prime95 just fine but a HCI test usually errors with 1 single error around 250-300% on C16.

What voltage or secondary / tertiary could I try to tweak / loosen to make C16 have a greater chance of becoming stable?

Mind you, I'm already running very high voltages to get the current settings stable (2000% HCI and 24h Prime95 AVX/FMA3 blend 12000MB stable combined with the CPU/Cache OC @ 5.125 core 4.825 cache) so I know my CPU is Rock solid and I do HCI tests purposely on 1 multi lower on CPU and cache just to be sure.

Voltages: 1.38v IO, 1.34v SA, 1.554v DRAM, 1.24v VR VOut CPU.
Could loosening for example tWR/tWRPRE or tCWL or anything else in the timing table help in getting C16 to run stable? I can't really add any more voltages and setting them any lower will result in errors / hard locks or memory_management BSOD's so yeah..

Any tips?


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> I'm trying to get C16 to work on my poorly binned B-Die Vengeance RGB single rank sticks. They run 4220Mhz 17-17-17-34-280-2T just fine and the same timings on C16 are pretty close to stable and pass Prime95 just fine but a HCI test usually errors with 1 single error around 250-300% on C16.
> 
> What voltage or secondary / tertiary could I try to tweak / loosen to make C16 have a greater chance of becoming stable?
> 
> Mind you, I'm already running very high voltages to get the current settings stable (2000% HCI and 24h Prime95 AVX/FMA3 blend 12000MB stable combined with the CPU/Cache OC @ 5.125 core 4.825 cache) so I know my CPU is Rock solid and I do HCI tests purposely on 1 multi lower on CPU and cache just to be sure.
> 
> Voltages: 1.38v IO, 1.34v SA, 1.554v DRAM, 1.24v VR VOut CPU.
> Could loosening for example tWR/tWRPRE or tCWL or anything else in the timing table help in getting C16 to run stable? I can't really add any more voltages and setting them any lower will result in errors / hard locks or memory_management BSOD's so yeah..
> 
> Any tips?


Well, first know how the settings behave in GSAT vs HCI. Is the error cpu or ram based? Second, you really are running quite high voltages for 4220 (why the BCLK bump?). Use the stronger memory divider ratios (on 100, 125 or 166 bclk) leave BCLK untouched off these values when searching tighter timings or frequencies. When you find the ceiling on the gear (CPU working with ram AND the MB) you can then squeeze out a few extra Hz with BCLK is you must. Changing the buss frequency can cause sporadic errors that are hard to ferret out. Lastly, IO and SA voltages above 1.25V are not "routine" for even higher frequencies.


----------



## Imprezzion

Jpmboy said:


> Well, first know how the settings behave in GSAT vs HCI. Is the error cpu or ram based? Second, you really are running quite high voltages for 4220 (why the BCLK bump?). Use the stronger memory divider ratios (on 100, 125 or 166 bclk) leave BCLK untouched off these values when searching tighter timings or frequencies. When you find the ceiling on the gear (CPU working with ram AND the MB) you can then squeeze out a few extra Hz with BCLK is you must. Changing the buss frequency can cause sporadic errors that are hard to ferret out. Lastly, IO and SA voltages above 1.25V are not "routine" for even higher frequencies.


The bclk bump is purely there because with my previous BFR 3000 kit I did this whole process and "squeezed the last out of it" and I know the CPU / Cache handle the 100.5 bclk just fine so figured why not lol.

The voltages, I don't know why this CPU needs them but as I said before any memory clock over ~3800Mhz needs a LOT of IO/SA to stand a chance in heck of even booting to windows so yeah.. my bet is bad IMC or board but the core OC on this CPU is very good and so are the temps as I lapped it lol. Can't really sell or trade this CPU for a KS of the newer stepping for the small gains and yes, the voltages are high but as long as temps and stability is there I don't mind running higher voltages. Not scared of volts, I am of temps tho. I mean, I run a 3770K delidded direct-die water @ 4.95Ghz 1.448v since it released. Hasn't degraded one bit yet, 2500K delidded CLU 5.3Ghz 1.525v, has seen sub-zero many times, no degradation at all.

I am noticing something wierd btw. If I lower tCWL from 14 to 16 and raise tWRPRE from 32 (=tWR 14) to 36 (=tWR 16?) it won't train or POST and hangs on a "90" POST code. 14 with 32 and 14 works perfectly fine... 15-34-15 won't train either.. what am I doing wrong haha. I thought i kinda understood how tWR. tWRPRE and tCWL are connected?

EDIT: I'm a moron.. Honestly..
What you said made me think.. would i be needing so much IO/SA because of the BCLK and too high cache? 
Well, basically yes. 
I turned it down to 100.0 and 4200c17-17-17-28 and now even 1.25v boots fine and is currently running HCI. Before 1.25v wouldn't even pass POST half the time let alone run HCI for more then 2 seconds. 
Also, i noticed in my old screenshot library that my secondary and tertiary's that i run at the moment aren't even tested. I did that 2000% HCI and Prime95 pass on pretty loose secondary / tertiary / RTL. I tightened them considerably in the meanwhile but never properly tested beyond like, 400% HCI and a few weeks of gaming. 

I might just have to re-do my entire overclock from the beginning for both CPU and RAM just using 100 BCLK..

EDIT2: Started with a safe CPU OC I know will be good and re-did basically everythnig except for the RTL/IO-L.
If i can get this to work and be stable i would basically cry. Check the screenshot.

EDIT3: Well, that passed about 1100% HCI 12GB with no errors. 
Re-did my entire CPU and Cache OC together with a few tweaks to secondaries and tertiary's.
Haven't fully tested this combination with a stress yet but bench results in AIDA are stunning. 37.7ns latency with great R/W/C speeds lol.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> The bclk bump is purely there because with my previous BFR 3000 kit I did this whole process and "squeezed the last out of it" and I know the CPU / Cache handle the 100.5 bclk just fine so figured why not lol.
> 
> The voltages, I don't know why this CPU needs them but as I said before any memory clock over ~3800Mhz needs a LOT of IO/SA to stand a chance in heck of even booting to windows so yeah.. my bet is bad IMC or board but the core OC on this CPU is very good and so are the temps as I lapped it lol. Can't really sell or trade this CPU for a KS of the newer stepping for the small gains and yes, the voltages are high but as long as temps and stability is there I don't mind running higher voltages. Not scared of volts, I am of temps tho. I mean, I run a 3770K delidded direct-die water @ 4.95Ghz 1.448v since it released. Hasn't degraded one bit yet, 2500K delidded CLU 5.3Ghz 1.525v, has seen sub-zero many times, no degradation at all.
> 
> I am noticing something wierd btw. If I lower tCWL from 14 to 16 and raise tWRPRE from 32 (=tWR 14) to 36 (=tWR 16?) it won't train or POST and hangs on a "90" POST code. 14 with 32 and 14 works perfectly fine... 15-34-15 won't train either.. what am I doing wrong haha. I thought i kinda understood how tWR. tWRPRE and tCWL are connected?
> 
> EDIT: I'm a moron.. Honestly..
> What you said made me think.. would i be needing so much IO/SA because of the BCLK and too high cache?
> Well, basically yes.
> I turned it down to 100.0 and 4200c17-17-17-28 and now even 1.25v boots fine and is currently running HCI. Before 1.25v wouldn't even pass POST half the time let alone run HCI for more then 2 seconds.
> Also, i noticed in my old screenshot library that my secondary and tertiary's that i run at the moment aren't even tested. I did that 2000% HCI and Prime95 pass on pretty loose secondary / tertiary / RTL. I tightened them considerably in the meanwhile but never properly tested beyond like, 400% HCI and a few weeks of gaming.
> 
> I might just have to re-do my entire overclock from the beginning for both CPU and RAM just using 100 BCLK..
> 
> EDIT2: Started with a safe CPU OC I know will be good and re-did basically everythnig except for the RTL/IO-L.
> If i can get this to work and be stable i would basically cry. Check the screenshot.
> 
> EDIT3: Well, that passed about 1100% HCI 12GB with no errors.
> Re-did my entire CPU and Cache OC together with a few tweaks to secondaries and tertiary's.
> Haven't fully tested this combination with a stress yet but bench results in AIDA are stunning. 37.7ns latency with great R/W/C speeds lol.


yeah man, best to do all "range-finding" on frequencies without tweaking the system bus. Good job!


----------



## BotSkill

Hi swddeluxx , it's that Kingston 4266C19 RGB or non RGB ram?



swddeluxx said:


> Its correct, GSAT is absolutely perfect to find unstable(wrong/bad Timings), Karchu Mem Test or HCI Mem Test Pro is perfekt to find unstable cache Voltage or overheating from Ram Chips with tight Ram Settings or too high Ram Voltage.
> There again the same one Hour GSAT Stress Test Screen as bevor AND one Hour Karchu Mem Test with my Setup:
> 
> Asus Maximum Gene XI (1302 Bios)
> 
> 9900K 5.0 GHz - AVX Offset 0 - 4.7GHz Cache - DRAM *4533 CL17 1T* with - 1.485vDimm :drum:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Hour GSAT
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Hour Karchu Mem Test ( and IO-L`s now are even better than before -5-5- ).


----------



## swddeluxx

BotSkill said:


> Hi swddeluxx , it's that Kingston 4266C19 RGB or non RGB ram?


Hi *BotSkill*,


its this Kit there (HX442C19PB3K2/16): https://geizhals.de/kingston-hyperx-predator-dimm-kit-16gb-hx442c19pb3k2-16-a2045569.html?hloc=de


----------



## BotSkill

It's crazy how well they work. You sure have a great IMC too on your 9900K.



swddeluxx said:


> Hi *BotSkill*,
> 
> 
> its this Kit there (HX442C19PB3K2/16): https://geizhals.de/kingston-hyperx-predator-dimm-kit-16gb-hx442c19pb3k2-16-a2045569.html?hloc=de


----------



## BLUuuE

Jpmboy said:


> 3600c15 and 3600c16. easy.


The code indicates B-die, so it seems like the SPD is misprogrammed.


----------



## Imprezzion

What is usually the limiting factor in 1T vs 2T?

With my totally redone OC my B-Die's run 4200-16-17-17 just fine but I wanted to see what 1T would do on a different frequency / timing set however I found out even 3600C18 (stock for this bin) will not in any way do 1T lol. 

Is there anything I can tweak or add voltage to to give 1T a chance?

These are single-rank DIMM's but not a great board topology or board itself for memory OC.


----------



## Gen.

Imprezzion said:


> The bclk bump is purely there because with my previous BFR 3000 kit I did this whole process and "squeezed the last out of it" and I know the CPU / Cache handle the 100.5 bclk just fine so figured why not lol.
> 
> The voltages, I don't know why this CPU needs them but as I said before any memory clock over ~3800Mhz needs a LOT of IO/SA to stand a chance in heck of even booting to windows so yeah.. my bet is bad IMC or board but the core OC on this CPU is very good and so are the temps as I lapped it lol. Can't really sell or trade this CPU for a KS of the newer stepping for the small gains and yes, the voltages are high but as long as temps and stability is there I don't mind running higher voltages. Not scared of volts, I am of temps tho. I mean, I run a 3770K delidded direct-die water @ 4.95Ghz 1.448v since it released. Hasn't degraded one bit yet, 2500K delidded CLU 5.3Ghz 1.525v, has seen sub-zero many times, no degradation at all.
> 
> I am noticing something wierd btw. If I lower tCWL from 14 to 16 and raise tWRPRE from 32 (=tWR 14) to 36 (=tWR 16?) it won't train or POST and hangs on a "90" POST code. 14 with 32 and 14 works perfectly fine... 15-34-15 won't train either.. what am I doing wrong haha. I thought i kinda understood how tWR. tWRPRE and tCWL are connected?
> 
> EDIT: I'm a moron.. Honestly..
> What you said made me think.. would i be needing so much IO/SA because of the BCLK and too high cache?
> Well, basically yes.
> I turned it down to 100.0 and 4200c17-17-17-28 and now even 1.25v boots fine and is currently running HCI. Before 1.25v wouldn't even pass POST half the time let alone run HCI for more then 2 seconds.
> Also, i noticed in my old screenshot library that my secondary and tertiary's that i run at the moment aren't even tested. I did that 2000% HCI and Prime95 pass on pretty loose secondary / tertiary / RTL. I tightened them considerably in the meanwhile but never properly tested beyond like, 400% HCI and a few weeks of gaming.
> 
> I might just have to re-do my entire overclock from the beginning for both CPU and RAM just using 100 BCLK..
> 
> EDIT2: Started with a safe CPU OC I know will be good and re-did basically everythnig except for the RTL/IO-L.
> If i can get this to work and be stable i would basically cry. Check the screenshot.
> 
> EDIT3: Well, that passed about 1100% HCI 12GB with no errors.
> Re-did my entire CPU and Cache OC together with a few tweaks to secondaries and tertiary's.
> Haven't fully tested this combination with a stress yet but bench results in AIDA are stunning. 37.7ns latency with great R/W/C speeds lol.


May be is:
tWR = 12
tRTP = 6
tRFC ~ 300-320 for stability 
if tCWL = 12: tWRRD_dg = 6+tCWL+tWTR_s=6+12+4=22 ist's ok! please tWTR_l=8 and tWRRD_dg=26
tREFi=32760
tCKE~6
ALL DR & DD = 0 or 1
Train your memory! Turn off fast memory loading

And test 16 threads, not 8 and preferably 13312 mb or more.

Respectfully, Gen.
Greetings from Russia :specool:


----------



## FarmerJo

been trying to dial in my memory overclock over the last few days, anything you guys would recommend that i change?


----------



## Imprezzion

FarmerJo said:


> been trying to dial in my memory overclock over the last few days, anything you guys would recommend that i change?


Not really. RTL /IO-L are pretty high at 74 so they might have some room (my RAM for example Auto trains at 69 on 4200 and runs 67 just fine with 21 offset) but the rest looks pretty clean.

Are these B-Die's or a different IC? 

Might just wanna shoot for a higher frequency next. 4200C16 should give pretty much the same latency but way more bandwidth.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

BLUuuE said:


> The code indicates B-die, so it seems like the SPD is misprogrammed.



Thanks, that is very interesting. My sticks clock very good, like B-Die. Seems they could be going by the evidence you posted.


----------



## swddeluxx

BotSkill said:


> It's crazy how well they work. You sure have a great IMC too on your 9900K.


Yea im very happy, this Cpu has very strong IMC (max boot at 5100 but with cl 19 and 1.52vDimm) :thumb:


----------



## SoldierRBT

swddeluxx said:


> Yea im very happy, this Cpu has very strong IMC (max boot at 5100 but with cl 19 and 1.52vDimm) :thumb:


Awesome. Would you mind sharing your 5100 settings? I can boot 5000 C18-22-22-42. Haven't tried any higher.


----------



## KCDC

Thank you @Jpmboy and @ThrashZone for giving me a little cheat sheet to get a bit more out of this kit. rep for both. 30 min gsat passed, will do a longer test, but so far so good! Tried 15 15 15 but got errors instantly. 

Turned out my BIOS was posting when I thought it wasn't (black screen on restart). My DP outputs were reset and had to use HDMI to get a monitor to work after changing ram settings, strange behavior. I thought I was going crazy when I couldn't figure out why I was getting black screens, hence why I was reflashing the BIOS every time in the beginning. Once I used HDMI for one monitor while tweaking RAM, I was finally able to dial things in.


----------



## Jpmboy

BLUuuE said:


> The code indicates B-die, so it seems like the SPD is misprogrammed.


 I checked 4 other 3600c15s and the entire SKU seems to be misprogrammed...assuming we actually know what the codes mean. 


KCDC said:


> Thank you @*Jpmboy* and @*ThrashZone* for giving me a little cheat sheet to get a bit more out of this kit. rep for both. 30 min gsat passed, will do a longer test, but so far so good! Tried 15 15 15 but got errors instantly.
> 
> Turned out my BIOS was posting when I thought it wasn't (black screen on restart). *My DP outputs were reset and had to use HDMI to get a monitor to work after changing ram settings*, strange behavior. I thought I was going crazy when I couldn't figure out why I was getting black screens, hence why I was reflashing the BIOS every time in the beginning. Once I used HDMI for one monitor while tweaking RAM, I was finally able to dial things in.


Is that with the 2080Ti or sometging else? What sticks/kit(s) are those?


----------



## KCDC

Jpmboy said:


> I checked 4 other 3600c15s and the entire SKU seems to be misprogrammed...assuming we actually know what the codes mean.
> 
> Is that with the 2080Ti or sometging else? What sticks/kit(s) are those?



Might be a 2080ti thing, DP thing or a mobo thing, I'm not really sure. All I know is using HDMI while tweaking ram settings got me around having no signal to the monitors. Tweaking anything else in the BIOS doesn't do this, so I'm leaning towards a mobo quirk. Sticks are gskill royal, 64gb one kit F4-3200C14Q-64GTRS:


https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V64GB-(4x16GB)


----------



## Imprezzion

KCDC said:


> Might be a 2080ti thing, DP thing or a mobo thing, I'm not really sure. All I know is using HDMI while tweaking ram settings got me around having no signal to the monitors. Tweaking anything else in the BIOS doesn't do this, so I'm leaning towards a mobo quirk. Sticks are gskill royal, 64gb one kit F4-3200C14Q-64GTRS:
> 
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V64GB-(4x16GB)


My God that is a €700 RAM kit... I can't imagine spending the price of a 2080 Super on a set of RAM lol.

Well, I can't get anywhere near 5000Mhz on my b-die but it might be IMC as well or just poor bin b-die. I can get it to boot 4800 but it ain't easy and needs a LOT of voltage.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> My God that is a €700 RAM kit... I can't imagine spending the price of a 2080 Super on a set of RAM lol.
> 
> *Well, I can't get anywhere near 5000Mhz on my b-die but it might be IMC as well or just poor bin b-die. I can get it to boot 4800 but it ain't easy and needs a LOT of voltage.*


I think the 2xdimm board optimized for ram overclocking might have something to do with it 
I have been looking into upgrading to a xi Gene myself and seeing what the 8700k IMC will yield. Then maybe going to a 9900k.


----------



## bxcounter

1Hour GSAT stable.

Still work in progress.

Fun fact: If i lower tFAW to 16 my cpu temps go 10c up. But if i put it at maximum value (63) temps go down 10c and i can raise cpu/cache from 5.1/4.7 to 5.2/4.8.


----------



## Imprezzion

On your settings tFAW should be 4x TRRD_S which is 12. 

I'm going to try my upmost best to get 4400Mhz usable on my system but it took me quite a bit of effort to even get 4200 so.. I doubt i'll make anything useful out of it.

EDIT: I copy-pasted some of your settings, 4400Mhz 16-19-19-39-350-2T @ 1.54v (my voltage for 4200) is what i chose to start with. 
On my 4200 manual secondaries and tertiaries it wouldn't pass boot properly. 
I went back to Auto Optimized for a sec just to make sure it would train and boot properly.
Errors within the first 20 seconds of HCI.

Raised IO/SA, no effect, errors immediatly. Raised DRAM to 1.59v, errors gone. 

I'm not joking with this question, how "safe" is it to run 1.59v (load 1.584v) on DDR4 B-Die. I mean, it works. It passed the first 100% pass just fine. It isn't getting super hot either, DIMM's seem to sit at around 46-48c with a 120mm blowing on them.


----------



## bxcounter

[/QUOTE]Raised IO/SA, no effect, errors immediatly. Raised DRAM to 1.59v, errors gone. 

I'm not joking with this question, how "safe" is it to run 1.59v (load 1.584v) on DDR4 B-Die. I mean, it works. It passed the first 100% pass just fine. It isn't getting super hot either, DIMM's seem to sit at around 46-48c with a 120mm blowing on them.[/QUOTE]

Limit ? I would probably draw the line around 1.65v for b-die.
But in my case i'm limited to 1.55. 
Damn, 46-48 is pretty hot !

Do report back if you get that 4400 working. Thanks


----------



## robertr1

bxcounter said:


> 1Hour GSAT stable.
> 
> Still work in progress.
> 
> Fun fact: If i lower tFAW to 16 my cpu temps go 10c up. But if i put it at maximum value (63) temps go down 10c and i can raise cpu/cache from 5.1/4.7 to 5.2/4.8.


Now you have my curiosity on why tfaw is acting this way....


----------



## bxcounter

robertr1 said:


> Now you have my curiosity on why tfaw is acting this way....


Well i did the ultimate test: 
Cleared cmos, loaded optimized default, memory to jedec spec 2133.
tFAW was set at usual 24, everything looked fine.
Stressed the cpu with for 5 min with prime95, recorded the temps.
Then raised tfaw to 63. And temps dropped again.

Maybe i damaged :h34r-smi something while delidding this CPU, who knows ?


----------



## Imprezzion

Raised IO/SA, no effect, errors immediatly. Raised DRAM to 1.59v, errors gone. 

I'm not joking with this question, how "safe" is it to run 1.59v (load 1.584v) on DDR4 B-Die. I mean, it works. It passed the first 100% pass just fine. It isn't getting super hot either, DIMM's seem to sit at around 46-48c with a 120mm blowing on them.[/QUOTE]

Limit ? I would probably draw the line around 1.65v for b-die.
But in my case i'm limited to 1.55. 
Damn, 46-48 is pretty hot !

Do report back if you get that 4400 working. Thanks[/QUOTE]

1,584v wasn't enough. Errored at 139%. I am not going any higher. I don't wanna risk degrading my RAM for that 1% of "performance".

Hot? Maybe. Probably because they are Corsair Vengeance RGB with the lights still on on full RGB and those heatspreaders aren't as good as G.Skills. I turned up my 120 RAM fan a bit and they settled around 39-41c with a bit more airflow.

I'm not going to get 4400C16 on these chips at reasonable voltages.
I'm testing 4400-17-18-18 now with pretty tight overall timings on 1.55v. AIDA numbers look very promising.


----------



## FarmerJo

Imprezzion said:


> Not really. RTL /IO-L are pretty high at 74 so they might have some room (my RAM for example Auto trains at 69 on 4200 and runs 67 just fine with 21 offset) but the rest looks pretty clean.
> 
> Are these B-Die's or a different IC?
> 
> Might just wanna shoot for a higher frequency next. 4200C16 should give pretty much the same latency but way more bandwidth.


 These are B-Die's.
Not to fimiliar with Ram overclocking and it could be my mobo but my sticks hate anything over 1.5v even with a fan directly on them. 4200 is proving to be very dificult even after raising all the primary timings +2 and trying higher vccio and vccsa, any other things i could try?


----------



## Jpmboy

bxcounter said:


> Well i did the ultimate test:
> Cleared cmos, loaded optimized default, memory to jedec spec 2133.
> tFAW was set at usual 24, everything looked fine.
> Stressed the cpu with for 5 min with prime95, recorded the temps.
> Then raised tfaw to 63. And temps dropped again.
> 
> *Maybe i damaged :h34r-smi something while delidding this CPU, who knows *?


nah, if faw window is held open for much longer than in takes to perform 4 ACT commands spaced by RRD_s, the ram and IO sit doing noting until the "four activate window" closes. Eg, things slowed down...


----------



## Imprezzion

FarmerJo said:


> These are B-Die's.
> Not to fimiliar with Ram overclocking and it could be my mobo but my sticks hate anything over 1.5v even with a fan directly on them. 4200 is proving to be very dificult even after raising all the primary timings +2 and trying higher vccio and vccsa, any other things i could try?


If set manually, raise tCWL and tWR +2.
Don't go +2 on all primary timings just for 200Mhz. The 4000Mhz OC would probably be more efficient at that point.

As for me, I'm making the same mistake again of changing like 20 different timings and then testing. If it errors I haven't got a single clue which one causes the problem to begin with. I'm just going to run 4400 17-19-19-39-350-2T with all Auto subtimings, very safe settings, 1.35v SA/IO just to be sure they are high enough and see what it does. If that errors then my 4200 C16 is more efficient so I'll keep that.


----------



## robertr1

Jpmboy said:


> nah, if faw window is held open for much longer than in takes to perform 4 ACT commands spaced by RRDD_s, the ram and IO sit doing noting until the "four activate window" closes. Eg, things slowed down...


So it's basically stalling the cpu which lets it cool down between the next instruction? 

His performance numbers should tank in that case during benchmarks, right?


----------



## Jpmboy

robertr1 said:


> So it's basically stalling the cpu which lets it cool down between the next instruction?
> 
> His performance numbers should tank in that case during benchmarks, right?


memory benchmarks - yes... unless his low-FAW settings cause any timing clashes with other timing sets.


----------



## Imprezzion

Nah, 4400 is going to be quite difficult to run on my setup..

I let it run HCI last night in 4400 17-19-19-39-350-2T 1.55v 1.35 IO 1.30 SA and it got to about 360% before throwing an error so it's close but not there yet. Wierd thing is, dropping timings to 19-22-22 doesn't actually make it any more stable as even that crashed at 400% ish. Lowering voltages makes it even worse lol.

The limiting factor is either just RAM frequency and it needs way more DRAM voltage (1.6v+) to run 4400 or my IMC is just incapable of running 4400Mhz.


----------



## JoeRambo

robertr1 said:


> So it's basically stalling the cpu which lets it cool down between the next instruction?
> 
> His performance numbers should tank in that case during benchmarks, right?



It would be the most visible loss of performance in tests like Linpack that are memory bw efficiency bound. In my friend's memory tuning i think he went from 410 to 490 Gflops on 5Ghz 9900k.


----------



## moorhen2

I think my ram is stable now.


----------



## bxcounter

JoeRambo said:


> It would be the most visible loss of performance in tests like Linpack that are memory bw efficiency bound. In my friend's memory tuning i think he went from 410 to 490 Gflops on 5Ghz 9900k.


Oh yes, i did a test in shadow of the tombraider. 
Minimum fps took a nice hit.
tFAW 41 = 175
tFAW 63 = 130

GSAT copy bandwith shows it best:

tFAW 41 = 48000
tFAW 12 = 48800
tFAW 63 = 43500

But as far as the maximum tFAW goes, it's interesting to say the least.
These are cinebench scores with 9900k : (temps are from 21 pass prime95 1344)
HT OFF = tfaw 46 = 51/47 = 1750 = max temp 72 - 1.288
HT OFF = tfaw 63 = 52/48 = 1793 = max temp 72 - 1.359
HT ON = tfaw 63 = 51/47 = 2266 = max temp 76 - 1.359

And last one without cinebench scores: 
HT OFF = tfaw 63 = 51/47 = max temp 66 - 1.288

Sorry for long post :typer:


----------



## Imprezzion

I am beginning to go mad lol. No matter what I try I get errors all over the place on any timings on 4400MHz.
Wierdest thing is, nothing seems to respond to more or less voltage at all.. I went all over the place from 1.48v RAM all the way to 1.6v. From 1.2v IO/SA all the way to 1.35v. I even turned down my CPU OC even tho it tested stable and no matter what it will error out...

I am beginning to think 4400 just isn't going to work at all. I must be hitting A wall on either the DIMM's frequency or just the IMC to the point even voltage can't save it.


----------



## BLUuuE

Finally got 4000 15-19-19 stable on my Ballistix Elite 4000 18-19-19 kit. 
Took a lot more VCCSA/VCCIO than I expected, which probably means my 9600k has a weak IMC.



Spoiler















I also restarted and did a quick HCI MemTest run and it passed 100% so it should be pretty stable.



Spoiler


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I found the weak spot of my system finally. 4400 just needs a hideous amount of IO/SA (think 1.4v+). It failed every single HCI test even on 4400 19-22-22-49-500-2T or something stupid loose like that until I set 1.38v SA 1.34v IO. Then it started to stabilize finally.
4800 can boot but is totally unusable and sometimes just throws a random kernel error when booting and hard resets the system lol.

So, I found out 1.38v SA 1.34v IO works, so I'll leave them there and lower them later. CPU backed off to 4.8 @ 1.28v and 4.5 cache.

I now have a HCI test running on 4133 15-17-17-32-280-2T with 1.6v RAM (1.584v actual) and it is about to go to 200% so the first legs there.

Yes, I know 1.6v is a lot but it needs that for CL15. It won't POST CL15 at 1.50v and barely gets to windows on 1.55v so yeah..

If this is stable I'm going to drop tWR and tCWL as low as they go without erroring and that's about it for 4133Mhz. Then it's off to see if I can get CL15 to run 4200. But seeing as how much problems I had getting CL16 to run on 4200 I doubt it..

Then it's more hours and hours of testing to see how low IO/SA can go before erroring out. My guess is around 1.30v ish on this IMC for C15 4133.

By the ways I have to give MSI props for the "Optimized RTL" setting.
It came really close to the lowest it can boot actually. All I could do after was set the RTL Initial to 65 (lower won't POST) and offset 22. 23 boots but totally missed training at like 60-66-5-9.

EDIT: Yes, I know tRAS is probably too low but didn't wanna stop HCI as it was pretty far. I'll correct it next reboot.


----------



## swddeluxx

9900K 5.0GHz/4.7GHz Cache/ Ram 4666 MHz CL17 *1T*

GSAT stable, not stable with Karchu Test yet but I am working on it, must find a working IO/SA combination for this Test for my 4.7 GHz Cache then everything will be great :bike:


----------



## bxcounter

swddeluxx said:


> 9900K 5.0GHz/4.7GHz Cache/ Ram 4666 MHz CL17 *1T*
> 
> GSAT stable, not stable with Karchu Test yet but I am working on it, must find a working IO/SA combination for this Test for my 4.7 GHz Cache then everything will be great :bike:


Best b-die 2x8 overclock i have ever seen. Period. :thumb:

If it's no problem, coul you please test something for me ?

Turn RTL training OFF. (This is important)

Manually enter following RTL values:

RTL CHA 61
RTL CHB 61

Put all "D1" and "IOL D0" values to = "0"

IOL offset to:
28
27

RFR to:
14
14

See if it boots.
If it does you will have to realign your voltages.
I dropped my ram and VCCIO voltages a bit with this trick and gained 0.2 latency and little bit of bandwith.

Vielen Dank


----------



## Imprezzion

Most impressive part is the fact it only took you 1.504v DRAM lol.
1.55v will probably make it Rock solid in any test.

Settings from my previous post passed 1 hour GSAT, 500% HCI and 2 hours of Prime95 Blend on 13GB load just fine. It did take pretty loose RTL/IO but these settings won't do any better. 59-60-5-5 is the best it'll run.

All I still wanna chance maybe is tCWL 16 and tWR 16. They might go a bit lower but not sure. 

I'm settling on 4133 15-17-17-32-280-2T as of now lol.

DIMM's got up to about 42c on 1.6v so nothing special in terms of temps.


----------



## GRABibus

GRABibus--i76900K @4.4/3.7---3400MHz-C14-15-14-34-1T----1.41v---SA 0.8v---HCI > 1000%

Motherboard : ASUS X99-Deluxe II
Vccin=1.856V
Vcore=1.37V adaptative

I ran my TridentZ 4x8GB 3200MHz CL14 (F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ) at 3200MHz with timings 13-14-13-34-250-1T since years.
I never went deeply to overclock it and didn't found during weeks why I could pass 100% HCI at 3400MHz 14-15-14-34-250-1T and still had "Hardware failure errors" in Aida64 Cache stress test....
I was surprised to pass HCI but not Aida64 stress test Cache !!

I tried increasing Vdimm, vcssa, vccio, decreasing cache frequency...etc...Nothing worked.

In fact, it was due to Vccin. I just had to increase it a bit from 1.81V (For 3200MHz 13-14-13-34-250-1T) to 1.86V (For 3400MHz 14-15-14-34-250-1T) in order to not have any more "Hardware failure errors" in Aida64 Cache stress test.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Newegg got a couple more 4x8gb kits of 3600C16 in 280.us

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232585


----------



## Intrud3r

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Newegg got a couple more 4x8gb kits of 3600C16 in 280.us
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232585


Hmmm ... I'm tempted.


----------



## ThrashZone

Intrud3r said:


> Hmmm ... I'm tempted.


Hi,
Yep I got another set almost two weeks ago all were gone after.
Price gougers wait for newegg to run out.


----------



## Intrud3r

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep I got another set almost two weeks ago all were gone after.
> Price gougers wait for newegg to run out.


Just curious ...

Let's say I'll manage to get about 4200-4400 with them sticks ... compared to what I'm running now ... will it give me anything?
(higher bandwith / lower latencies ... yes, I know that  )


Apart from playing with it ... which is all the fun.


----------



## Imprezzion

Intrud3r said:


> Just curious ...
> 
> Let's say I'll manage to get about 4200-4400 with them sticks ... compared to what I'm running now ... will it give me anything?
> (higher bandwith / lower latencies ... yes, I know that  )
> 
> 
> Apart from playing with it ... which is all the fun.


Trust me, getting 1 single error 2300% into a 9+ hour HCI test ain't fun anymore lol.

I can, *again* start over with my OC because of this single error. It simply isn't stable. I doubt I'll ever get a crash or WHEA error dailying the settings that generated that error but still..


----------



## GRABibus

Imprezzion said:


> Trust me, getting 1 single error 2300% into a 9+ hour HCI test ain't fun anymore lol.


lol

I have always stopped HCI at 1000%. Getting such kind of erros after more than 2000% could happen to me or to a lot of people...We all know that a "stable overclock" doesn't exist 
But yes, that means you are not stable...


----------



## Imprezzion

GRABibus said:


> lol
> 
> I have always stopped HCI at 1000%. Getting such kind of erros after more than 2000% could happen to me or to a lot of people...We all know that a "stable overclock" doesn't exist
> But yes, that means you are not stable...


True true. I'll be a bit more realistic. I'm going to sleep now but this looks like a pretty stable base so far. I'll let it run till morning. Will probably be at like 1500% by then. CPU is down 100Mhz and cache too so that's why core volts seem a bit high because i normally run 5.1/4.8 on this and now 5/4.7 just to be 100% sure the CPU/cache don't trigger an error lol.

These SA/IO/DRAM voltages are a bit more reasonable as well compared to the super high voltages i ran on C15 4133 which i just could not get past ~200-250% without erroring. 

Now, To work on the tRDWR and tWRWR as they are pretty loose still and i wanna see if tRRD_L will pull 4 as well without erroring. Most other timings including the full RTL/IO suite have been tweaked to the point of no real further improvement to be gained. Maaaybe i can squeeze out a lower tWR / tCWL but i kinda doubt it lol. Is this tRAS = tCL+tRCD+1 good like this btw or should i go to hard tCL+tRCD=33? Or even a little looser? Never really understood all the different formula's and stories about tRAS.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> True true. I'll be a bit more realistic. I'm going to sleep now but this looks like a pretty stable base so far. I'll let it run till morning. Will probably be at like 1500% by then. CPU is down 100Mhz and cache too so that's why core volts seem a bit high because i normally run 5.1/4.8 on this and now 5/4.7 just to be 100% sure the CPU/cache don't trigger an error lol.
> 
> These SA/IO/DRAM voltages are a bit more reasonable as well compared to the super high voltages i ran on C15 4133 which i just could not get past ~200-250% without erroring.
> 
> Now, To work on the tRDWR and tWRWR as they are pretty loose still and i wanna see if tRRD_L will pull 4 as well without erroring. Most other timings including the full RTL/IO suite have been tweaked to the point of no real further improvement to be gained. Maaaybe i can squeeze out a lower tWR / tCWL but i kinda doubt it lol. Is this tRAS = tCL+tRCD+1 good like this btw or should i go to hard tCL+tRCD=33? Or even a little looser? Never really understood all the different formula's and stories about tRAS.


 Just be sure to verify performance and not only stability. You can have a stable setting that is very inefficient due to timing clashes (eg, op windows shorter than it takes to complete the ops it is open for) RRD_L(ong) is likely not =< RRD_S(hort) 
Bathroom reading for the ram addict (and links "therein"): https://www.systemverilog.io/understanding-ddr4-timing-parameters


----------



## Imprezzion

Jpmboy said:


> Just be sure to verify performance and not only stability. You can have a stable setting that is very inefficient due to timing clashes (eg, op windows shorter than it takes to complete the ops it is open for) RRD_L(ong) is likely not =< RRD_S(hort)
> Bathroom reading for the ram addict (and links "therein"): https://www.systemverilog.io/understanding-ddr4-timing-parameters


Interesting. This read and the one on here that goes deeper into overclocking and Target timings and such are super handy.
https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md#tightening-timings

It did successfully pass 1800% (rebooted before I screenshotted it lol... Just woke up...) So after weeks and weeks of tweaking and staring angrily at the error screen I finally have a good baseline which I obviously saved in the BIOS OC profiles as well.

I can try to tweak timings from here if I ever feel like it.

EDIT: Tweaked a bunch of further timings and got my final OC for 4200Mhz. 

Tested to 550% but i will let it run to 1000 just to be sure but even if it errors past 600% i don't really care lol. I feel like it's "stable enough" to probably not cause problems in daily usage.
The AIDA bench numbers are looking really really good to me lol. Even got well under 38ns 

- 4200Mhz CL16-17-17-33-280-2T 46800 tREFI with fully manually set secondary and tertiary timings and manually set and optimized RTL and IO. 
- Voltages used: 1.55v DRAM, 1.30v SA, 1.25v IO.
- CPU: 5.0Ghz @ 1.30v VR VOut with 4.7Ghz cache. It daily runs 5.1Ghz 4.8Ghz cache but that is NOT Prime95 / stress tested. This is so i used that for mem testing to eliminate CPU / cache crashes.


----------



## Apothysis

I'm on the XI Apex and this might be dual rank specific (running 2x16GB B-die) but has anyone had huge issues with stability (mainly RTL training) when raising VCCIO/VCCSA? I've run GSAT to verify that my current setup is stable (1 hour) at 1.1v IO and 1.15v SA but 3800 dual-rank is a pretty tall ask for the IMC and 1.1v is to low, which I've tested with Prime95 (112k in-place non-avx). The problem is that once I bring VCCIO up above 1.2v it fails training and it shows on the RTL values. Is there any other voltage (Dram VTT?) that might stabilize this? It's been super frustrating testing every combination if VCCIO/VCCSA between 1.15-1.35v and I'm getting nowhere.


What's the safest approach to tackle this otherwise? It fails training even with really loose timings once VCCIO gets high enough to stabilize the IMC For 3800 MHz dual-rank (it seems to be near 1.325v but I can't verify this due to the training fail). I've verified that the CPU itself is stable at 1.375v (52x/49x/0avx) 0.95v VCCIO (stock RAM). I'm running the cache at stock while overclocking the RAM though which seems to be the common advice.


While the board seems great at handling 2x8GB it definitely requires a lot of manual input for 2x16GB (putting some values far to low on auto training etc.).


Edit: Attached screenshots of Timing Configurator for comparison. The first picture is with 1.15v IO 1.15v SA (~1 min stable prime95 112k non-avx), the second with 1.175v IO 1.15v SA and as you can see RTL CHA D0 is off already.


----------



## Imprezzion

Hol' up. Your tRCD and tRP are lower than your CAS? Well, there's probably your problem lol. 

Try 4000Mhz 15-16-16-31-350-CR2 or 15-17-17 if it's immediately unstable. Use... I'd estimate... 1.225v SA and 1.175v IO and 1.45-1.50v DRAM? That would be a clean starting point.

Training memory is a difficult process that I don't fully understand but understand enough to know and also experience in my own process of tweaking RTL/IO that everything affects it. Not just one specific voltage or timing but rather a combination of everything together. 

For example with tWR 14 tCWL 16 tWRPRE 34 my RAM will not properly train. RTL is off by at least 5 or 6. Setting it even lower at for example tWR 12 tCWL 14 tWRPRE 30 it trains fine. My RAM also tends to fail completely in locking / training if tRDWR or tWRRD is set too tight. It will run "stable" and not error per sè but have terrible performance and missed training.


----------



## moorhen2

Apothysis said:


> I'm on the XI Apex and this might be dual rank specific (running 2x16GB B-die) but has anyone had huge issues with stability (mainly RTL training) when raising VCCIO/VCCSA? I've run GSAT to verify that my current setup is stable (1 hour) at 1.1v IO and 1.15v SA but 3800 dual-rank is a pretty tall ask for the IMC and 1.1v is to low, which I've tested with Prime95 (112k in-place non-avx). The problem is that once I bring VCCIO up above 1.2v it fails training and it shows on the RTL values. Is there any other voltage (Dram VTT?) that might stabilize this? It's been super frustrating testing every combination if VCCIO/VCCSA between 1.15-1.35v and I'm getting nowhere.
> 
> 
> What's the safest approach to tackle this otherwise? It fails training even with really loose timings once VCCIO gets high enough to stabilize the IMC For 3800 MHz dual-rank (it seems to be near 1.325v but I can't verify this due to the training fail). I've verified that the CPU itself is stable at 1.375v (52x/49x/0avx) 0.95v VCCIO (stock RAM). I'm running the cache at stock while overclocking the RAM though which seems to be the common advice.
> 
> 
> While the board seems great at handling 2x8GB it definitely requires a lot of manual input for 2x16GB (putting some values far to low on auto training etc.).
> 
> 
> Edit: Attached screenshots of Timing Configurator for comparison. The first picture is with 1.15v IO 1.15v SA (~1 min stable prime95 112k non-avx), the second with 1.175v IO 1.15v SA and as you can see RTL CHA D0 is off already.


You don't state what Ram kit you are using, you need to run a memory specific stability test, ie GSAT. HCI or Ramtest which I use and tests the cache as well. Also make sure you have the Mem OK Switch in the Disabled position on the mobo.


----------



## Apothysis

moorhen2 said:


> You don't state what Ram kit you are using, you need to run a memory specific stability test, ie GSAT. HCI or Ramtest which I use and tests the cache as well. Also make sure you have the Mem OK Switch in the Disabled position on the mobo.


Well the kit shouldn't be relevant in this scenario as I firmly believe the issue lies in the motherboard and how it trains. I've tested two different kits, 4000 CL19 and 3600 CL16 (G.Skill). I'm currently running G.Skill F4-360016D-32GTZN. Mem OK is disabled, MRC Fast Boot also disabled (to ensure training). I did also state that I already confirmed GSAT stability (which, as I've understood it, primarily tests the stability of dram voltage and timings). The issue lies in VCCIO and training (Karhu and Prime95 112k in-place non-avx both test this and confirm instability in my case, due to bad training). I'm sure the XI Apex does exceptionally well with 2x8GB sticks but dual rank is very, very different. There's a lot of stuff the motherboard does on auto-training that has to be manually tweaked to get it to post properly at high frequencies (generally setting things to tight).




Imprezzion said:


> Hol' up. Your tRCD and tRP are lower than your CAS? Well, there's probably your problem lol.
> 
> Try 4000Mhz 15-16-16-31-350-CR2 or 15-17-17 if it's immediately unstable. Use... I'd estimate... 1.225v SA and 1.175v IO and 1.45-1.50v DRAM? That would be a clean starting point.
> 
> Training memory is a difficult process that I don't fully understand but understand enough to know and also experience in my own process of tweaking RTL/IO that everything affects it. Not just one specific voltage or timing but rather a combination of everything together.
> 
> For example with tWR 14 tCWL 16 tWRPRE 34 my RAM will not properly train. RTL is off by at least 5 or 6. Setting it even lower at for example tWR 12 tCWL 14 tWRPRE 30 it trains fine. My RAM also tends to fail completely in locking / training if tRDWR or tWRRD is set too tight. It will run "stable" and not error per sè but have terrible performance and missed training.


 It looks weird sure but it's not uncommon for B-die and there's no issue with it - I've seen plenty similar cases, like I said all the timings in the picture are 1 hour GSAT stable. The same issue persists even with 18-18-18-40 and very safe, stable secondary timings. 4000MHz is very, very demanding even with a really good IMC and motherboard. Buildzoid has a video of him overclocking a pair of 16GB Corsair Dominator sticks where he mentions only one of his motherboards actually capable of pushing it above 3866, an MSI ITX board that just handles training well.


The kit I have is capable of a lot tighter timings than what the pictures show but set most things a lot safer just to find VCCIO stability first, hoping that'd alleviate any difficulty training.


----------



## moorhen2

Do you have Trace catering enabled ? and what about MCH Full Check.


----------



## Apothysis

moorhen2 said:


> Do you have Trace catering enabled ? and what about MCH Full Check.



Trace centering is disabled and MCH Full Check is on auto.


I believe I may have found the cause: Maximus Tweak. When I initially started I had to use Mode 2 to get a post at 3800. It seems mode 2 pushes RTL a lot lower than mode 1 and at some point while lowering timings I must've passed a threshold where Mode 2 became unstable and Mode 1 can post. Mode 1 wouldn't post @ 3800 18/18/40 but both posts and trains correctly at 3800 15/15/34.. I can't say for certain yet but I'm testing stability and it seems good so far at very reasonable IO/SA voltages.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well yeah, it can work, i mean some DDR3 ran stuff like 2133 CL9-11-8 for example, but i've hardly ever seen anyone get good stability or good results with it. 

I'm probably underestimating the extra load / diffculty a 16GB DIMM will give a board. 

As for RTL, i thought you still had it all on Auto. It's never a good idea to use a manual or "Maximus Tweak" (or as my board calls it RTL Optimization: Enabled) before knowing a specific setting wil boot.
I noticed a RTL Initial of 65 and a IO-L Initial of 4 with stock 21 offset is pretty much bootable and trainable on any frequency / timing so maybe try that? 

I wonder in your case what would be more efficient. ~3800 CL15 with high voltages and high(er) secondaries or do what i did on my 7700K which couldn't handle anything over 3200Mhz and just run like, 3000Mhz with 11-11-11-28-270-CR1 with super low secondaries.


----------



## Apothysis

Imprezzion said:


> Well yeah, it can work, i mean some DDR3 ran stuff like 2133 CL9-11-8 for example, but i've hardly ever seen anyone get good stability or good results with it.
> 
> I'm probably underestimating the extra load / diffculty a 16GB DIMM will give a board.
> 
> As for RTL, i thought you still had it all on Auto. It's never a good idea to use a manual or "Maximus Tweak" (or as my board calls it RTL Optimization: Enabled) before knowing a specific setting wil boot.
> I noticed a RTL Initial of 65 and a IO-L Initial of 4 with stock 21 offset is pretty much bootable and trainable on any frequency / timing so maybe try that?
> 
> I wonder in your case what would be more efficient. ~3800 CL15 with high voltages and high(er) secondaries or do what i did on my 7700K which couldn't handle anything over 3200Mhz and just run like, 3000Mhz with 11-11-11-28-270-CR1 with super low secondaries.



Well right now it seems very, very stable in both GSAT (was before as well), Prime95 IMC (112k in-place non-avx) and Karhu (used to error at 7% due to bad training) and the only thing I changed was Maximus Tweak mode. The problem is that I sort of "had" to choose Mode 2 to get a post, and apparently change to Mode 1 once the primaries got low enough. Hard to know before-hand but I'm cry-laughing about how much time I wasted testing combinations of VCCIO/VCCSA when it was seemingly just this 1 setting.


----------



## moorhen2

Maximus Tweak Mode Auto is exactly the same as Mode 1, no timings change, Mode 2 only changes the RTL D1's and some of the Tertiaries.


----------



## lionc

Newbie question, does the IMC train values that are hidden from the BIOS/ASrock timing configurator?

I had a settings that were 100% stable over many days. Even tested it extensively up to 55°C with fans off. Zero errors through Prime, GSAT, Karhu, etc. Thought I was finally done.

Now suddenly the exact same settings are no longer stable. Voltages are low, far too low to cause degradation. RTL/IOL training is the same with good spacing and no irregularities. Temperatures are ok too. I think its a training issue because sometimes the stability seems to "come back" after a reboot. 
Full Check is on and Fast Boot is off... should I try to lock in the settings via Fast Boot?


----------



## Gen.

What other improvement tips will there be?
How much can I sell my current kit?
Ordered 2 sets https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...GBDDR4-3600MHz-CL16-16-16-36-1.35V16GB-(2x8GB)
https://www.regard.ru/catalog/tovar309146.htm
18000 rubles ~ $ 280 not bad! This is a glitch store apparently, but I managed to


----------



## kongasdf

BLUuuE said:


> Finally got 4000 15-19-19 stable on my Ballistix Elite 4000 18-19-19 kit.
> Took a lot more VCCSA/VCCIO than I expected, which probably means my 9600k has a weak IMC.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also restarted and did a quick HCI MemTest run and it passed 100% so it should be pretty stable.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Your SA and IO are higher, probably because of Micron E-die.

When tightening the timing of 4400MT/s, I need more than 1.4v. Such as 4400 16 22 22 42. SAMSUNG B die is about 1.25v at the same frequency.

I have a good CJR, it seems to be barely satisfactory.


----------



## moorhen2

4000 1T Stock timings and voltages. Now to play.


----------



## moorhen2

4133 no changes.


----------



## Carillo

Anyone tried the 9900KS IMC ? Is the 9900K with R0 stepping the strongest so far regarding z390 ? 

Jon


----------



## moorhen2

Carillo said:


> Anyone tried the 9900KS IMC ? Is the 9900K with R0 stepping the strongest so far regarding z390 ?
> 
> Jon


I have both C stepping P0 Revision and D stepping R0 Revision 9900K's, the D stepping R0 revision is what the 9900KS is. My 9900K D/R0 seems to have a slightly better IMC and requires slightly less voltages for the same frequencies.


----------



## Carillo

moorhen2 said:


> I have both C stepping P0 Revision and D stepping R0 Revision 9900K's, the D stepping R0 revision is what the 9900KS is. My 9900K D/R0 seems to have a slightly better IMC and requires slightly less voltages for the same frequencies.


So your 9900k D/R0 has a better IMC than the 9900ks ? I have a maximus gene with g.skill 3600 c15 and a 9600k with pretty weak IMC, and im wondering if i should go for 9900k or 9900KS. The IMC is more important to me than having the best binned cores. But i guess there is no guaranty to get a 9900k D/RO chip ?


----------



## moorhen2

Carillo said:


> So your 9900k D/R0 has a better IMC than the 9900ks ? I have a maximus gene with g.skill 3600 c15 and a 9600k with pretty weak IMC, and im wondering if i should go for 9900k or 9900KS. The IMC is more important to me than having the best binned cores. But i guess there is no guaranty to get a 9900k D/RO chip ?


I wouldn't know about the IMC on a 9900KS's, that would be chip dependant, I am just saying the new KS's have the same stepping and revision as my new 9900K.


----------



## Imprezzion

There is zero guarantees on IMC quality. As I said before any 9900K can run 5Ghz core and any 9900K(s) can run any memory clock theoretically but the voltages needed can be so high that they aren't useful / runnable.

My 9900K C P0 has great OC potential for the cores doing 5.1Ghz 4.8Ghz cache at well under 1.3v (1.25 to 1.28v depending on load and LLC level). It gets hot but if temps are controlled it can go way higher. It benches all cores HT on 5.5Ghz pretty easily just can't be realistically cooled at that point.

IMC however is pretty weak. Doesn't boot above 4800 at any voltage / timing, can only max out at 4400-4500 stable with insane IO/SA voltages (1.4v+) and needs 1.30v SA 1.25v IO to stabilize 4200 CL16. So yeah.


----------



## Carillo

Imprezzion said:


> There is zero guarantees on IMC quality. As I said before any 9900K can run 5Ghz core and any 9900K(s) can run any memory clock theoretically but the voltages needed can be so high that they aren't useful / runnable.
> 
> My 9900K C P0 has great OC potential for the cores doing 5.1Ghz 4.8Ghz cache at well under 1.3v (1.25 to 1.28v depending on load and LLC level). It gets hot but if temps are controlled it can go way higher. It benches all cores HT on 5.5Ghz pretty easily just can't be realistically cooled at that point.
> 
> IMC however is pretty weak. Doesn't boot above 4800 at any voltage / timing, can only max out at 4400-4500 stable with insane IO/SA voltages (1.4v+) and needs 1.30v SA 1.25v IO to stabilize 4200 CL16. So yeah.


if booting 4800 is considered a weak IMC, mine is trash. No matter what IO/SA voltage i use, i can not boot higher than 4533mhz. And i have a Maximus Gene motherboard. I do of course understand there is no guaranty for anything, but what im asking is people experience so far. So thanks for sharing. How many of you can actually boot 5000mhz ? if you can, please share a screenshot  I was also thinking to swap out the old 3600c15's for maby G.Skill Royal's 3200c14 or the Hyper X 4266c19 kit shown above here. What do you think ?


----------



## Falkentyne

Apothysis said:


> Well the kit shouldn't be relevant in this scenario as I firmly believe the issue lies in the motherboard and how it trains. I've tested two different kits, 4000 CL19 and 3600 CL16 (G.Skill). I'm currently running G.Skill F4-360016D-32GTZN. Mem OK is disabled, MRC Fast Boot also disabled (to ensure training). I did also state that I already confirmed GSAT stability (which, as I've understood it, primarily tests the stability of dram voltage and timings). The issue lies in VCCIO and training (Karhu and Prime95 112k in-place non-avx both test this and confirm instability in my case, due to bad training). I'm sure the XI Apex does exceptionally well with 2x8GB sticks but dual rank is very, very different. There's a lot of stuff the motherboard does on auto-training that has to be manually tweaked to get it to post properly at high frequencies (generally setting things to tight).
> 
> 
> 
> It looks weird sure but it's not uncommon for B-die and there's no issue with it - I've seen plenty similar cases, like I said all the timings in the picture are 1 hour GSAT stable. The same issue persists even with 18-18-18-40 and very safe, stable secondary timings. 4000MHz is very, very demanding even with a really good IMC and motherboard. Buildzoid has a video of him overclocking a pair of 16GB Corsair Dominator sticks where he mentions only one of his motherboards actually capable of pushing it above 3866, an MSI ITX board that just handles training well.
> 
> 
> The kit I have is capable of a lot tighter timings than what the pictures show but set most things a lot safer just to find VCCIO stability first, hoping that'd alleviate any difficulty training.


You found out about 112K in place FFT test from me?


----------



## ViTosS

I went from [email protected] at 1.43v DRAM and 1.15v IO/SA (set in BIOS) unstable ONLY in HCI MemTest and not in MemTest86 to 1.45v DRAM and 1.25v IO/SA (set in BIOS, real voltage between 1.26~1.28v for both) and now I'm stable in HCI MemTest and will run tonight the MemTest86 to check if I will be stable too. From 1.15v IO/SA to 1.25v, huge jump and just 0.02v more in DRAM, I don't know if I have the patience to try these two tests again at lower IO/SA voltage, probably will just leave like this.


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> if booting 4800 is considered a weak IMC, mine is trash. No matter what IO/SA voltage i use, i can not boot higher than 4533mhz. And i have a Maximus Gene motherboard. I do of course understand there is no guaranty for anything, but what im asking is people experience so far. So thanks for sharing. How many of you can actually boot 5000mhz ? if you can, please share a screenshot  I was also thinking to swap out the old 3600c15's for maby G.Skill Royal's 3200c14 or the Hyper X 4266c19 kit shown above here. What do you think ?


I have a couple of sets of G.Skill F4-4400C19-8GTZKK and a Gene and I'm getting a 9900ks later this week. 
Not sure if the ram is any good or not but I will keep you posted of the results. Hoping for over 5MHz 
I haven't tried a Z390 9900k setup before so I will look around for some idea of:
dram voltage
vccio
vccsa
cache frequency
vcore

Not looking to fry anything but don't mind pushing it for a screen shot


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> I have a couple of sets of G.Skill F4-4400C19-8GTZKK and a Gene and I'm getting a 9900ks later this week.
> Not sure if the ram is any good or not but I will keep you posted of the results. Hoping for over 5MHz
> I haven't tried a Z390 9900k setup before so I will look around for some idea of:
> dram voltage
> vccio
> vccsa
> cache frequency
> vcore
> 
> Not looking to fry anything but don't mind pushing it for a screen shot


Great! Good look with that, and keep me posted  Think i will order the 9900ks my self, and some ram kit( just don't know witch yet)


----------



## marcelo19941

Just testing my first RAM OC!
Its stable at 1.45V

Do you think i can change any of the timmings?


----------



## The Pook

marcelo19941 said:


> Just testing my first RAM OC!
> Its stable at 1.45V
> 
> Do you think i can change any of the timmings?



looks pretty solid. You could go a bit tighter on some of the secondaries and the tertiary twrrd-sg/dg if you wanted to. 

I haven't dialed in my kit below 4000 when I was running 8x2 but if you wanna try to steal a few of my timings there are a few that can be tightened.


----------



## munternet

marcelo19941 said:


> Just testing my first RAM OC!
> Its stable at 1.45V
> 
> Do you think i can change any of the timmings?


You could maybe double or triple whatever auto puts tREFI at


----------



## Imprezzion

marcelo19941 said:


> Just testing my first RAM OC!
> Its stable at 1.45V
> 
> Do you think i can change any of the timmings?


tCWL (17 should be ~12 to 14 depending on what's stable) and tWRRD (try 25-21 for example) probably have a lot of room and yes, tREFI can go to x3 current value at least. Higher is better with tREFI.

Which chips are these? B-Die's or something else? They might have quite a lot of frequency headroom still.


----------



## Apothysis

Falkentyne said:


> You found out about 112K in place FFT test from me?


Yes!


I managed to get 3900 CL16 1hr GSAT stable on my dual rank kit F4-3600C16D-32GTZN (timing configurator) but I can't get it to pass 7% in Karhu Memtest. Am I correct in understanding that if GSAT is stable but Karhu errors, it's VCCIO/VCCSA related? I've tested all the way up to 1.35v IO/SA and it still errors around 5-7%. I've gotten 3800 CL15 stable at 1.15v IO/SA, I can't imagine 3900 should require more than 1.35v?


----------



## Jpmboy

Apothysis said:


> Yes!
> 
> 
> I managed to get 3900 CL16 1hr GSAT stable on my dual rank kit F4-3600C16D-32GTZN (timing configurator) but I can't get it to pass 7% in Karhu Memtest. *Am I correct in understanding that if GSAT is stable but Karhu errors*,* it's VCCIO/VCCSA related?* I've tested all the way up to 1.35v IO/SA and it still errors around 5-7%. I've gotten 3800 CL15 stable at 1.15v IO/SA, I can't imagine 3900 should require more than 1.35v?


or cache. try either lowing the cache multiplier a notch or bump the voltage.


----------



## swddeluxx

Have a question for you *Jpmboy*:

have very good 9900K Cpu with strong IMC (can boot with 5100MHz Ram) but my Windows freezes as soon as I boot into the system with 4300 / 4400 / 4500 / 4600 / 4700 Ram Setting with *BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio 100:100* :wth:
If i will set *BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio* at "*Auto*" or "*100:133*" i can 4266 CL16 , 4400 CL17, 4533 CL17 or even 4666 CL17 stable.
What is the Problem with this *BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio 100:100* Setting ?
My Cache is to high?, or RTL Init Value is to low?
Bios boot is without Problem but as i say - Windows freezes as soon as I boot into the system with *4300* / *4400* / *4500* / *4600* / *4700* Ram Setting with 100:100 Ratio :questionm


----------



## moorhen2

Freezing can sometimes be cache related.


----------



## Apothysis

Jpmboy said:


> or cache. try either lowing the cache multiplier a notch or bump the voltage.


Thanks! I turned Cache all the way back to stock and tried every combination of IO/SA between 1.15v and 1.4v and couldn't get past the 7% so I guess that's just where my IMC says no.


----------



## moorhen2

Apothysis said:


> Thanks! I turned Cache all the way back to stock and tried every combination of IO/SA between 1.15v and 1.4v and couldn't get past the 7% so I guess that's just where my IMC says no.


More ram voltage is probably needed.

Have you tried less IO and SA, try 1.00 IO and 1,150 SA.


----------



## marcelo19941

Imprezzion said:


> tCWL (17 should be ~12 to 14 depending on what's stable) and tWRRD (try 25-21 for example) probably have a lot of room and yes, tREFI can go to x3 current value at least. Higher is better with tREFI.
> 
> Which chips are these? B-Die's or something else? They might have quite a lot of frequency headroom still.


Yeah B-Die, but is more frequency worth it? Maybe i could try to go to 4000, but it would be CL 16 or 17....is it worth the extra latency?


----------



## munternet

marcelo19941 said:


> Yeah B-Die, but is more frequency worth it? Maybe i could try to go to 4000, but it would be CL 16 or 17....is it worth the extra latency?


I found with my old setup that 4200MHz requires 1.44v dram but if I drop to 4000MHz I only need 1.35v and it's more stable so that seems to be my point of diminishing returns


----------



## Imprezzion

marcelo19941 said:


> Yeah B-Die, but is more frequency worth it? Maybe i could try to go to 4000, but it would be CL 16 or 17....is it worth the extra latency?


4000 on C15 should be doable. I mean, mine are a pretty cheap bin being 3600C18 chips on Corsair Vengeance RGB RAM and can do it pretty easily. 

Worth it? Maybe, maybe not. But the whole fun of overclocking is finding the most optimal OC possible and continue tweaking right?

Try for 4000 15-16-16-31-280 for example. It's fine to go up to at least 1.5v DRAM if needed. It's just about finding a balance between frequency and timings to get a good throughput and latency. I get 62gb r/w 58gb copy and 37.7ns on 4200C16 for example. Great balance.


----------



## The Pook

marcelo19941 said:


> Yeah B-Die, but is more frequency worth it? Maybe i could try to go to 4000, but it would be CL 16 or 17....is it worth the extra latency?





Imprezzion said:


> 4000 on C15 should be doable. I mean, mine are a pretty cheap bin being 3600C18 chips on Corsair Vengeance RGB RAM and can do it pretty easily.
> 
> Worth it? Maybe, maybe not. But the whole fun of overclocking is finding the most optimal OC possible and continue tweaking right?
> 
> Try for 4000 15-16-16-31-280 for example. It's fine to go up to at least 1.5v DRAM if needed. It's just about finding a balance between frequency and timings to get a good throughput and latency. I get 62gb r/w 58gb copy and 37.7ns on 4200C16 for example. Great balance.



4000 CL15 should be doable on even a middle of the road kit. I can do CL13 at 3733, CL15 at 4000, and CL16 at 4200 with 1.48v - 1.50v.


----------



## marcelo19941

The Pook said:


> 4000 CL15 should be doable on even a middle of the road kit. I can do CL13 at 3733, CL15 at 4000, and CL16 at 4200 with 1.48v - 1.50v.


Ok testing CL16 4266 right now, seems stable. I have strapped 2 Noctua A8x25 to the RAM to keep it cool since im running at 1.5V

Do you think i can tight any timmings?


----------



## The Pook

marcelo19941 said:


> Ok testing CL16 4266 right now, seems stable. I have strapped 2 Noctua A8x25 to the RAM to keep it cool since im running at 1.5V
> 
> Do you think i can tight any timmings?



looks good to me. this is my best at 4133, a few of mine were tighter than yours but you're clocked 133mhz higher. your kit looks better than mine so you might want to try them though. 

you should be able to crank tREFI to the max (65535) without issue, I left mine at 60420 for the meme :laughings


----------



## marcelo19941

The Pook said:


> looks good to me. this is my best at 4133, a few of mine were tighter than yours but you're clocked 133mhz higher. your kit looks better than mine so you might want to try them though.
> 
> you should be able to crank tREFI to the max (65535) without issue, I left mine at 60420 for the meme :laughings


Damn but you latency is good. Trying again with max TRefi and lower tRAS


----------



## Intrud3r

Retested 4000Mhz with Karhu this time ... 10 hours ... 0 errors.

VCCIO = 1.300V (results in 1.276V)
VCCSA = 1.300V (results in 1.308V)


----------



## SgtRotty

lowest i can get on latency @ 4000. my motherboard is z370 prime-a, 4000 is my limit on frequency in the specs. F4-3200C14D-16GVK 
bfV stable for weeks


----------



## munternet

SgtRotty said:


> lowest i can get on latency @ 4000. my motherboard is z370 prime-a, 4000 is my limit on frequency in the specs. F4-3200C14D-16GVK
> bfV stable for weeks


Am I reading that correctly that your cache clock multiplier is 40?
Seems a little low....


----------



## SgtRotty

munternet said:


> SgtRotty said:
> 
> 
> 
> lowest i can get on latency @ 4000. my motherboard is z370 prime-a, 4000 is my limit on frequency in the specs. F4-3200C14D-16GVK
> bfV stable for weeks
> 
> 
> 
> Am I reading that correctly that your cache clock multiplier is 40?
> Seems a little low....
Click to expand...

It's at 4.8. It's a delayed reading


----------



## munternet

SgtRotty said:


> It's at 4.8. It's a delayed reading


OK sweet 
At least you're testing it properly with BFV 
Seems like a pretty decent result


----------



## munternet

marcelo19941 said:


> Damn but you latency is good. Trying again with max TRefi and lower tRAS


What's with the populated slots being channelA Dimm1 and channelA Dimm2. 
Most seem to have channel A and B in either Dimm1 or Dimm2 populated??


----------



## Imprezzion

SgtRotty said:


> lowest i can get on latency @ 4000. my motherboard is z370 prime-a, 4000 is my limit on frequency in the specs. F4-3200C14D-16GVK
> bfV stable for weeks


tRAS and tRFC are a bit high though. Might be able to go lower and cut some latency off there.

My kit maxes at 4200 16-17-17-31-280-2T but it does need 1.55v to be stable. Any less errors after like 400-500% in HCI and Prime 112k.


----------



## marcelo19941

munternet said:


> What's with the populated slots being channelA Dimm1 and channelA Dimm2.
> Most seem to have channel A and B in either Dimm1 or Dimm2 populated??


Its an ITX board, it has 2 slots


----------



## ViTosS

I'm fully stable HCI MemTest and MemTest86 at [email protected] & tRFC 400 (the rest in on AUTO), using 1.45v (anything lower than that not stable) and 1.20 IO/SA set in BIOS. My B-Die isn't that great I think, can't boot any frequency above 4000Mhz, doesn't matter the timings and voltages.

Stock the RAM is [email protected]


----------



## ViTosS

These are my results, any good?


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> These are my results, any good?


Looks good but your tWR is really really high lol. That's going to cost you some latency numbers. Try to get to at least 16 or even as low as 12 if the chips wanna do it. And raise tREFI by x2 or x3.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> Looks good but your tWR is really really high lol. That's going to cost you some latency numbers. Try to get to at least 16 or even as low as 12 if the chips wanna do it. And raise tREFI by x2 or x3.


Thank you! I was able to set what you said, however the tWR I set 16 in BIOS resulted in 17 in AsRock Timing Configurator, but I ran a quick bench and got a slightly better results, not sure if it is 100% stable though


----------



## moorhen2

ViTosS said:


> Thank you! I was able to set what you said, however the tWR I set 16 in BIOS resulted in 17 in AsRock Timing Configurator, but I ran a quick bench and got a slightly better results, not sure if it is 100% stable though


tWR is controlled by tWRPRE, so look at the number this has set and drop it by 1 to get the required number.


----------



## Imprezzion

moorhen2 said:


> tWR is controlled by tWRPRE, so look at the number this has set and drop it by 1 to get the required number.


Oh yeah I should've mentioned tWRPRE = tCWL + tWR + 4 usually so yeah, use tWRPRE to set it.


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> These are my results, any good?


that CPU/MB can't hold 1T at those timings with 3600c16 sticks?


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> These are my results, any good?


The 2203 bios really shakes things up in the memory tuning department.
With the maximus x hero I was getting 4000-17-16-16-28-2 with my G-Skill 4400cl19s. Completely different to the previous settings which were similar to yours 
My overclock was never tightened up because it is all decommissioned now and the CPU is sold.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...l-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread-1038.html


----------



## Intrud3r

Oh my ... think I actually got it stable now at 4000 Mhz @ C17-22-22-41-520-31200

Woopty Frecking Doo

(been running MK11 now for 1,5 hours, normally it crashed to desktop within 30 min)

P.S. Still on the same "crappy" Hynix chips


----------



## moorhen2

Intrud3r said:


> Oh my ... think I actually got it stable now at 4000 Mhz @ C17-22-22-41-520-31200
> 
> Woopty Frecking Doo
> 
> (been running MK11 now for 1,5 hours, normally it crashed to desktop within 30 min)


Looking good, your tRFC is very high, try 350-360.


----------



## ViTosS

moorhen2 said:


> tWR is controlled by tWRPRE, so look at the number this has set and drop it by 1 to get the required number.





Imprezzion said:


> Oh yeah I should've mentioned tWRPRE = tCWL + tWR + 4 usually so yeah, use tWRPRE to set it.


I didn't get it for sure, I should change tWRPRE and not tWR directly? I mean, an example, tWR is at 25 and tWRPRE is at 45, I should change the 45 until I have 16 in tWR?


----------



## ViTosS

Jpmboy said:


> that CPU/MB can't hold 1T at those timings with 3600c16 sticks?


Unfortunately no =( I can't even have 3600Mhz CL14


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> The 2203 bios really shakes things up in the memory tuning department.
> With the maximus x hero I was getting 4000-17-16-16-28-2 with my G-Skill 4400cl19s. Completely different to the previous settings which were similar to yours
> My overclock was never tightened up because it is all decommissioned now and the CPU is sold.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...l-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread-1038.html


So you mean the new BIOS is good or bad? Should I update?

Edit.: Sorry for three answers, should have used multi quote.


----------



## Intrud3r

moorhen2 said:


> Looking good, your rRFC is very high, try 350-360.


These Hynix chips don't like lower TRFC, I can boot 480. 460 is a no go.


----------



## moorhen2

ViTosS said:


> I didn't get it for sure, I should change tWRPRE and not tWR directly? I mean, an example, tWR is at 25 and tWRPRE is at 45, I should change the 45 until I have 16 in tWR?


Yes, that's how you set your tWR, drop your tWRPRE until you are at 16 tWR, then you can input the 16 manually.


----------



## Apothysis

I'm gonna be annoying with my dual-rank kit one last time!

I've verified that my timings (link) are 1 hr stable in GSAT (proof) @ DRAM 1.5v, VCCIO 1.2v, VCCSA 1.2v.

It won't get past 7% on Karhu Memtest. I've tried the following:


Lowering cache multiplier
Increasing/reducing VCCIO (0.05v steps between 1v-1.4v)
Increasing/reducing VCCSA (0.05v steps between 1.15v-1.4v)
Increasing/reducing VCCIO+VCCSA at the same time (0.05v steps between 1.15v-1.4v)
Increasing DRAM voltage
Increasing DMI voltage
Increasing VPPDDR voltage
Increasing CPU Voltage
Combining all of the above
Since it's a dual rank kit this is basically at the limit so if anyone has any advice that people generally use to go for those top tier overclocks on 2x8GB kits they're worth trying, let me know.

I'm currently stable at 3800MHz. One thing that I noticed while trying to stabilize 3800 was that I had to run it with Maximus Tweak Mode 1 (safer RTL/IOL values), if I ran it with Mode 2 it'd always fail training the timings properly (I'd get stuff like 56 57 65 65 58 58 65 65 or worse). I basically ran the above procedure at 3800 as well until I tried Mode 1 and it ended up stable at 1.49v DRAM, 1.2v IO/SA. BUT 3900 won't post at all in Mode 1 which means I have to use Mode 2. You can see the difference in the RTL/IOL values between the two screenshots. It never shows failed training though, but perhaps its related? I feel like that should show up in GSAT?

I know there's only a handful of people actually running dual rank in this thread and most of them top out at 3800 as well. I'd be less disappointed if it was failing GSAT but at this point it feels so close.


If it helps I'm running the kit on an XI Apex with a 9900KS.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> So you mean the new BIOS is good or bad? Should I update?
> 
> Edit.: Sorry for three answers, should have used multi quote.


It's very.....different.
If you like to tinker save your settings to a usb stick and have a go. You can always revert back


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hi @Jpmboy 
I just got a x299 Dark and was wondering if you have any good kits to recommand ?
Is the Gskill 3600c15 still the goto ? I saw the Teamgroup 4500c18 at a good price, is it worth it (230€ x 2) ?


----------



## moorhen2

bl4ckdot said:


> Hi @Jpmboy
> I just got a x299 Dark and was wondering if you have any good kits to recommand ?
> Is the Gskill 3600c15 still the goto ? I saw the Teamgroup 4500c18 at a good price, is it worth it (230€ x 2) ?


I have the Team Group 4500 c18,(8pack) kit, bit disappointed with them, I think they are close to the limit already at 4500, I can run 4600, but takes a lot of IO and SA even at stock, but it could be my kit are not that great.


----------



## ThrashZone

bl4ckdot said:


> Hi @Jpmboy
> I just got a x299 Dark and was wondering if you have any good kits to recommand ?
> Is the Gskill 3600c15 still the goto ? I saw the Teamgroup 4500c18 at a good price, is it worth it (230€ x 2) ?


Hi,
JP has 3600C16 plus probably other sets too 
Newegg got on sell I picked up another set couple weeks ago 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232585


----------



## bl4ckdot

I went with 2 kits of https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08l-tg.html
For 280€ express shipping included. 
For that price, might as well try my luck, and I heard very good thing about them. 
I still have my 3600c16 kit (same one as jpmboy) to compare


----------



## ThrashZone

bl4ckdot said:


> I went with 2 kits of https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08l-tg.html
> For 280€ express shipping included.
> For that price, might as well try my luck, and I heard very good thing about them.
> I still have my 3600c16 kit (same one as jpmboy) to compare


Hi,
Team has interesting timings there 14-14-14-31 instead of 14-14-14-34


----------



## bl4ckdot

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Team has interesting timings there 14-14-14-31 instead of 14-14-14-34


Hello, 
Yes, from what I've seen 14-14-14-34 are from the xtreem which are older than the dark pro


----------



## ThrashZone

bl4ckdot said:


> Hello,
> Yes, from what I've seen 14-14-14-34 are from the xtreem which are older than the dark pro


Hi,
3200C14 timing do better than 3600C16 timing for me on the 3600 set if that makes any sense 
3600C16 needed some tweaks to get it going better than just dialing in default primaries/ voltage.. was sort of annoying


----------



## Jpmboy

bl4ckdot said:


> I went with 2 kits of https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08l-tg.html
> For 280€ express shipping included.
> For that price, might as well try my luck, and I heard very good thing about them.
> I still have my 3600c16 kit (same one as jpmboy) to compare


Just FYI, the 3200c14s and 3600c16s are the same sticks... 400Hz for 2 CAS timings is pretty much standard at 1.35V. (Hence the higher bin 3600c15 kits). The 3200c14s I have (8x8GB Zs sticks and 4x8GB sticks FlareX for AMD) work the same as the 8x8GB 3600c16 sticks I have. In fact, the FlareX kit(s) do better at frequencies >4500 on the Apex X... no idea why that is so. The 3600c15 kits read as D-die 17nm interestingly.


----------



## marcelo19941

The chase to sub 40ns latency continues...

Where can i get my timings tighter?


----------



## Imprezzion

marcelo19941 said:


> The chase to sub 40ns latency continues...
> 
> Where can i get my timings tighter?


Your timings are as tight as they can probably go lol.
There's basically two ways to get your latency any lower. Somehow manage to get CL15-16-16 to run or drastically lower RTL/IO by setting RTL Initial as low as it'll go (probably somewhere around 65) and then setting the offset higher than 21 and seeing how high it will POST / Boot.

Also, tRAS 30 with 16-16-16 won't do you any good. Minimum required is 32 anyway so just set it there.


----------



## Jpmboy

marcelo19941 said:


> The chase to sub 40ns latency continues...
> 
> Where can i get my timings tighter?


 best way to get at that would be to lower the RTLs and IOls. I find that at these frequencies you may need to stretch the ChA and B latency for stability, so for example I can get 4400c16 stable (8086K, APEX X) at 59/61/6/7, but 59/60/6/6 or 60/61/7/7 (or 6s) would fail GSAT. High round trip latency leads to ... well, higher latency. 
Are those RTLs from the Auto setting?


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Your timings are as tight as they can probably go lol.
> There's basically two ways to get your latency any lower. Somehow manage to get CL15-16-16 to run or drastically lower RTL/IO by setting RTL Initial as low as it'll go (probably somewhere around 65) and then setting the offset higher than 21 and seeing how high it will POST / Boot.
> 
> *Also, tRAS 30 with 16-16-16 won't do you any good. Minimum required is 32 anyway so just set it there*.


this is a soft "rule". You can lower tRAS until either of two things happen... loss of stability or loss of performance gains if any are seen. +/- 2 is a good range around the timing interval as a start as there may be an embedded offset in the bios (and only your bios doctor knows for sure  ) but it is best to see if the performance and stability bottom out as you lower tRAS - easy since it will show up fast.


----------



## ViTosS

marcelo19941 said:


> The chase to sub 40ns latency continues...
> 
> Where can i get my timings tighter?


That's really weird, you have way better timings and frequency than me but at the same time worse latency...


----------



## lionc

Does anybody happen to know what the 240k FFT (not in-place) test in Prime95 is for — memory, imc, cache, core?
That's the only thing where one worker exits. I'm curious where to start fixing it.


----------



## Lownage

marcelo19941 said:


> The chase to sub 40ns latency continues...
> 
> Where can i get my timings tighter?


You could try CR 1T


----------



## bxcounter

Jpmboy said:


> best way to get at that would be to lower the RTLs and IOls. I find that at these frequencies you may need to stretch the ChA and B latency for stability, so for example I can get 4400c16 stable (8086K, APEX X) at 59/61/6/7, but 59/60/6/6 or 60/61/7/7 (or 6s) would fail GSAT. High round trip latency leads to ... well, higher latency.
> Are those RTLs from the Auto setting?


And how is your impression of running staggered RTL/IO (59/61/6/7) ?
If i recall there shouldn't be too much of performance loss .


----------



## Imprezzion

bxcounter said:


> And how is your impression of running staggered RTL/IO (59/61/6/7) ?
> If i recall there shouldn't be too much of performance loss .


As long as they aren't further than 2 apart. Any further indicates bad training as far as my knowledge goes.


----------



## Jpmboy

bxcounter said:


> And how is your impression of running staggered RTL/IO (59/61/6/7) ?
> If i recall there shouldn't be too much of performance loss .


 not so much an impression,as what was required to get things to work with some particular combos of gear.
Examples:


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm running 62/62/5/3 on 4200 16-17-17-33-280-2T

This is with 65/65/4/4 Initials with 24 offset. The most efficient setting I can do without it training poorly. If I lower the initial to 64 or raise offset to 25 it will do something like 59/66/3/8 which is bad training and even lower will not POST. 

My next step will be trying to get 16-16-16 to run. 16-17-17 is Rock solid but 16-16-16 has been nothing but errors so far.. at least I now have a stable base timing table to start with and I'll see how much volts it needs for straight 16's. I'm already at 1.54v but yeah.. bad bin B-Die's hehe.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> I'm running 62/62/5/3 on 4200 16-17-17-33-280-2T
> 
> This is with 65/65/4/4 Initials with 24 offset. The most efficient setting I can do without it training poorly. If I lower the initial to 64 or raise offset to 25 it will do something like 59/66/3/8 which is bad training and even lower will not POST.
> 
> My next step will be trying to get 16-16-16 to run. 16-17-17 is Rock solid but 16-16-16 has been nothing but errors so far.. at least I now have a stable base timing table to start with and I'll see how much volts it needs for straight 16's. I'm already at 1.54v but yeah.. bad bin B-Die's hehe.


The rtl offset is just that afaik... in other words when you raise the offset by 3 the RTL will show as being 3 lower but the actual round trip (measured during post) is unchanged. It can drive other timings lower, but the operating RTL is unchanged... afaik. I haven't had much success using rtl offsets for performance improvement, training consistency - yes.


----------



## Imprezzion

Jpmboy said:


> The rtl offset is just that afaik... in other words when you raise the offset by 3 the RTL will show as being 3 lower but the actual round trip (measured during post) is unchanged. It can drive other timings lower, but the operating RTL is unchanged... afaik. I haven't had much success using rtl offsets for performance improvement, training consistency - yes.


Yeah that's why I need 24 otherwise it won't train properly with my lowered tRRD's. This combination of 62/62/5/3 is by far the best in terms of performance doing 37.7ns latency in above timings.


----------



## marcelo19941

Lownage said:


> You could try CR 1T


Gonna try it later


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah well, no. I cannot no matter what voltage I smash into my sticks run 4200 16-16-16. 16-17-17 is just fine on 1.55v like 1300% HCI and 12h Prime but even on 1.625v it goes aw hell nah in like the first 50% HCI lol.

I'm just trying to lower random secondary and tertiary timings now because i'm bored lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah well, no. I cannot no matter what voltage I smash into my sticks run 4200 16-16-16. 16-17-17 is just fine on 1.55v like 1300% HCI and 12h Prime but even on 1.625v it goes aw hell nah in like the first 50% HCI lol.
> 
> I'm just trying to lower random secondary and tertiary timings now because i'm bored lol.


How can you spend all that time testing RAM and not go insane?


----------



## Imprezzion

Falkentyne said:


> How can you spend all that time testing RAM and not go insane?


I just let it run while I'm at work and hope I don't see the error screen when I get back haha. 

I like to overclock stuff in general but my entire system is maxed out right now. My GPU cannot do 15Mhz more. My CPU can do way more but can't cool it. It would need a full delid and even then the difference is probably too small to get 5.2Ghz with normal temps.

But yeah, back on-topic: Why can't I set my tRRD_S lower than 4? I see people running 3/5 for tRRD_S/tRRD_L and my tRRD_L can go as low as 1 but anything under 4 for tRRD_S goes back to "Auto" and defaults at 9.
Wierd...


----------



## Jpmboy

shoulda taken the blue pill.


----------



## drohun

Hi everyone!

It's George here. I'm building a PC optimized for CFD applications where Memory Bandwidth matters a lot. HTT also prefered to set to off for any reason.

This is my config right now: ASRock X99M Extreme4 (P3.40),Intel Core [email protected],2Ghz, Crucial Ballistix Sport LT (BLS4K16G4D30BESB)3000Mhz [email protected] (4x16GB), Noctua Nh-D15, Phanteks Enthoo Luxe TG, Seasonic Focus Plus 750W Platinum, GeForce GTX 1070 Ti AERO, Asus C624BQ

My question related to the memory overclocking: How could I manage to get better results in AIDA cache and memory test bench? Because if I chose the XMP profile i got 39Gb/s . Even 2666mhz is much faster 50,5Gb/s

My target would be 60Gb/s+ if it is managable on X99 with stabile 24/7 operation.


----------



## marcelo19941

Falkentyne said:


> Imprezzion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah well, no. I cannot no matter what voltage I smash into my sticks run 4200 16-16-16. 16-17-17 is just fine on 1.55v like 1300% HCI and 12h Prime but even on 1.625v it goes aw hell nah in like the first 50% HCI lol.
> 
> I'm just trying to lower random secondary and tertiary timings now because i'm bored lol.
> 
> 
> 
> How can you spend all that time testing RAM and not go insane?
Click to expand...

It is so fun lol


----------



## ThrashZone

Falkentyne said:


> How can you spend all that time testing RAM and not go insane?


Hi,
Yeah foldathon'ers are a different breed 

Performance bumps just for benchmarks I like the short versions which are the actual benchmarks being used for plus or minus gains in real time.
Stability wise is another story


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> shoulda taken the blue pill.


But there is no spoon!


----------



## Jpmboy

djgar said:


> But there is no spoon!


^^ :thumb:


----------



## mouacyk

djgar said:


> But there is no spoon!


said the one who's not the one to the one


----------



## djgar

mouacyk said:


> said the one who's not the one to the one


:thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## munternet

Got my new build up and running
Xl Gene, 9900ks, 2x8GB 4400cl19 sticks (going to do a build soon for sig but is basically the old PC with upgrades)
I have been throwing some settings at it just to sound it out. First impressions are a good step up from the previous PC. ran the ram @ 4700 but it wouldn't boot 4800.
Had it running 5GHz 1.25vcore but it wouldn't get warm so I upped it a little to 5.2GHz 1.32vcore and it just hits 80c now after a couple of hours of BFV (which is warmer then cinebench15)
Settings are rough and ready and I will lower the voltages and tune over the next few days.
Tried CR1 as low as 3600 but couldn't get it to train. Is there a trick to it?
Cinebench is 2232


----------



## Intrud3r

Just can resist messing around with settings 

4000Mhz C16-22-22-40-520-31200 @ 1.450V

VCCIO = 1.309V
VCCSA = 1.344V

Trained successfully the first time, went smooth as butter.

Started Karhu and let it run for 30 min. (will do some gaming now, and tonight I'll let Karhu run full swing and screenshot in the morning if successful)

It's not stable in games tho ... it crashed my Jedi - Fallen Order after about 20 min.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Got my new build up and running
> Xl Gene, 9900ks, 2x8GB 4400cl19 sticks (going to do a build soon for sig but is basically the old PC with upgrades)
> I have been throwing some settings at it just to sound it out. First impressions are a good step up from the previous PC. ran the ram @ 4700 but it wouldn't boot 4800.
> Had it running 5GHz 1.25vcore but it wouldn't get warm so I upped it a little to 5.2GHz 1.32vcore and it just hits 80c now after a couple of hours of BFV (which is warmer then cinebench15)
> Settings are rough and ready and I will lower the voltages and tune over the next few days.
> Tried CR1 as low as 3600 but couldn't get it to train. Is there a trick to it?
> Cinebench is 2232


 Nice! I don;t think there's a trick to 1T at those frequencies. Some kit/gear can manage it, but AFAIK it is more common for 2T to be the best command rate when you consider how quick a "tick" is at 4.6GHz on ram. You'll gain as much or more by tightening other timings. :thumb:


----------



## munternet

Changing the cache from 4500 to 4700 made a bit of a difference

Edit: Diminishing returns @ 4800


----------



## Intrud3r

Just to throw some information in here:

Was playing around with cache / uncore speed to check for latency values.

5.0 / 4.7 HT = on DVID = +0.100V --> had a latency of about 44.3 ns
5.0 / 4.8 HT = on DVID = +0.120V (added a bit of voltage for the added uncore speed) --> got a latency of 47-48ns
5.1 / 4.7 HT = on DVID = +0.150V --> had a latency of about 44.3 ns
5.1 / 4.8 HT = on DVID = +0.150V --> got a latency of 43.0 ns


----------



## eminded1

im having a problem overclocking my ram.... I got the Gskill Sniper X Ram specs below but I tried putting the VCCIO and VCCSA up to 1.3, no dice.. also tried ram voltage up to 1.5 no dice.

Ram - F4-3600C19-16GSXKB 32gb DDR4 3600 2x16gb its Hynix c Die

The thing is it is stable in everything exept prime 95 largeFFT it fails instantly but the aida 64 stress doent fail down below is what I tried I cant oc the ram... I can even drop 1 cas latency it will crash in p 95 large fft in 1 min sometimes instantly with lloser timing at cl 17

Heres what I tried
3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 17 18 18 38 - 1T - boots into windows failes prime 95 large fft instantly, aida64 failes instantly too just mem..
3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram 17 19 19 39 - 1t - Failes prime 95 large fft in 1 min. tried turning up voltages across board and it will always fail at 1 min even at 1.5 ram voltage.
3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 18 18 18 38 - 2t failes in 1 min on large fft prime 95, aida64 passes 1 hr system mem test.
3733- Fail to post
3800 fail to post
3900 fail to post
4000 fail to post.

XMP for the ram kit I have is
32GB DDR4 2x16GB
19 20 20 40 CR2 @ 1.35Vram
VCCIO - .95
VCCSA - 1.05
DMI - .95
Core PLL - 1.05
Dram VTT - .67500

Why cant I overclock this ram.. It will not OC and be stable at all!!!!!! maybe its a setting on my motherboard

Im using the latest bios for my Asus z390 Hero WIFI board. the stock intel voltages for xmp setting, XMP was WAY TO HIGH up in the 1.4+ VCCIO and VCCSA voltages also DMI and CPU PLL were up to 1.3 too. to me that seems too much also iv tested my xmp profile at 3600 XMP timings and settings but with the VCCIO, VCCSA, CPU PLL, DRAM VTT, BLCK Speard Spectium, and DMI voltages at stock NON XMP Settings and iv tested the ram/ IMC/ Memory a lot and it passes everyone with those low voltages at high clock speed ram at xmp stock 3600 xmp timings.

Maybe id be better off getting 4x8GB of some nice B-die 3200, or 3600, and be able to go past 4000 with an oc on the b die.

I attached a pic from thaiphoon
BTW here is my build
i9 9900kf 5 GHz Boost - 8 Core 16 Thread CPU Intel
32gb DDR4 3600MHz c19 Memory Gskill 2x16gb
Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11gb GPU EVGA w Warranty
ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero Z390 Motherboard
2TB m.2 NVMe SSD Intel 660p
Bluetooth 5.0 + Gigabit WiFi Built in
Corsair h100i Pro Extreme Water Cooler (240mm) Push Pull Config
Corsair 275q Quite (No RGB, No Windows, 8 Corsair fans (120mm)
EVGA 750W GQ PSU Gold Rated w Warrenty


----------



## Jpmboy

eminded1 said:


> im having a problem overclocking my ram.... I got the Gskill Sniper X Ram specs below but I tried putting the VCCIO and VCCSA up to 1.3, no dice.. also tried ram voltage up to 1.5 no dice.
> 
> Ram - F4-3600C19-16GSXKB 32gb DDR4 3600 2x16gb its Hynix c Die
> 
> The thing is it is stable in everything exept prime 95 largeFFT it fails instantly but the aida 64 stress doent fail down below is what I tried I cant oc the ram... I can even drop 1 cas latency it will crash in p 95 large fft in 1 min sometimes instantly with lloser timing at cl 17
> 
> Heres what I tried
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 17 18 18 38 - 1T - boots into windows failes prime 95 large fft instantly, aida64 failes instantly too just mem..
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram 17 19 19 39 - 1t - Failes prime 95 large fft in 1 min. tried turning up voltages across board and it will always fail at 1 min even at 1.5 ram voltage.
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 18 18 18 38 - 2t failes in 1 min on large fft prime 95, aida64 passes 1 hr system mem test.
> 3733- Fail to post
> 3800 fail to post
> 3900 fail to post
> 4000 fail to post.
> 
> XMP for the ram kit I have is
> 32GB DDR4 2x16GB
> 19 20 20 40 CR2 @ 1.35Vram
> VCCIO - .95
> VCCSA - 1.05
> DMI - .95
> Core PLL - 1.05
> Dram VTT - .67500
> 
> Why cant I overclock this ram.. It will not OC and be stable at all!!!!!! maybe its a setting on my motherboard
> 
> Im using the latest bios for my Asus z390 Hero WIFI board. the stock intel voltages for xmp setting, XMP was WAY TO HIGH up in the 1.4+ VCCIO and VCCSA voltages also DMI and CPU PLL were up to 1.3 too. to me that seems too much also iv tested my xmp profile at 3600 XMP timings and settings but with the VCCIO, VCCSA, CPU PLL, DRAM VTT, BLCK Speard Spectium, and DMI voltages at stock NON XMP Settings and iv tested the ram/ IMC/ Memory a lot and it passes everyone with those low voltages at high clock speed ram at xmp stock 3600 xmp timings.
> 
> Maybe id be better off getting 4x8GB of some nice B-die 3200, or 3600, and be able to go past 4000 with an oc on the b die.
> 
> I attached a pic from thaiphoon
> BTW here is my build
> i9 9900kf 5 GHz Boost - 8 Core 16 Thread CPU Intel
> 32gb DDR4 3600MHz c19 Memory Gskill 2x16gb
> Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11gb GPU EVGA w Warranty
> ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero Z390 Motherboard
> 2TB m.2 NVMe SSD Intel 660p
> Bluetooth 5.0 + Gigabit WiFi Built in
> Corsair h100i Pro Extreme Water Cooler (240mm) Push Pull Config
> Corsair 275q Quite (No RGB, No Windows, 8 Corsair fans (120mm)
> EVGA 750W GQ PSU Gold Rated w Warrenty


WTH is with that Asrock Timing configurator readout? Wrong version for that platform for sure.


----------



## marcelo19941

Trying higher speeds!
Im going to thight some timmings and try Karhu


----------



## munternet

marcelo19941 said:


> Trying higher speeds!
> Im going to thight some timmings and try Karhu


Wow, low latency 
Would it pass GSAT? I find it weeds out the errors.


----------



## Falkentyne

eminded1 said:


> im having a problem overclocking my ram.... I got the Gskill Sniper X Ram specs below but I tried putting the VCCIO and VCCSA up to 1.3, no dice.. also tried ram voltage up to 1.5 no dice.
> 
> Ram - F4-3600C19-16GSXKB 32gb DDR4 3600 2x16gb its Hynix c Die
> 
> The thing is it is stable in everything exept prime 95 largeFFT it fails instantly but the aida 64 stress doent fail down below is what I tried I cant oc the ram... I can even drop 1 cas latency it will crash in p 95 large fft in 1 min sometimes instantly with lloser timing at cl 17
> 
> Heres what I tried
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 17 18 18 38 - 1T - boots into windows failes prime 95 large fft instantly, aida64 failes instantly too just mem..
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram 17 19 19 39 - 1t - Failes prime 95 large fft in 1 min. tried turning up voltages across board and it will always fail at 1 min even at 1.5 ram voltage.
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 18 18 18 38 - 2t failes in 1 min on large fft prime 95, aida64 passes 1 hr system mem test.
> 3733- Fail to post
> 3800 fail to post
> 3900 fail to post
> 4000 fail to post.
> 
> XMP for the ram kit I have is
> 32GB DDR4 2x16GB
> 19 20 20 40 CR2 @ 1.35Vram
> VCCIO - .95
> VCCSA - 1.05
> DMI - .95
> Core PLL - 1.05
> Dram VTT - .67500
> 
> Why cant I overclock this ram.. It will not OC and be stable at all!!!!!! maybe its a setting on my motherboard
> 
> Im using the latest bios for my Asus z390 Hero WIFI board. the stock intel voltages for xmp setting, XMP was WAY TO HIGH up in the 1.4+ VCCIO and VCCSA voltages also DMI and CPU PLL were up to 1.3 too. to me that seems too much also iv tested my xmp profile at 3600 XMP timings and settings but with the VCCIO, VCCSA, CPU PLL, DRAM VTT, BLCK Speard Spectium, and DMI voltages at stock NON XMP Settings and iv tested the ram/ IMC/ Memory a lot and it passes everyone with those low voltages at high clock speed ram at xmp stock 3600 xmp timings.
> 
> Maybe id be better off getting 4x8GB of some nice B-die 3200, or 3600, and be able to go past 4000 with an oc on the b die.
> 
> I attached a pic from thaiphoon
> BTW here is my build
> i9 9900kf 5 GHz Boost - 8 Core 16 Thread CPU Intel
> 32gb DDR4 3600MHz c19 Memory Gskill 2x16gb
> Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11gb GPU EVGA w Warranty
> ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero Z390 Motherboard
> 2TB m.2 NVMe SSD Intel 660p
> Bluetooth 5.0 + Gigabit WiFi Built in
> Corsair h100i Pro Extreme Water Cooler (240mm) Push Pull Config
> Corsair 275q Quite (No RGB, No Windows, 8 Corsair fans (120mm)
> EVGA 750W GQ PSU Gold Rated w Warrenty


Upgrade your Asrock Timing Configurator to 4.0.4 (or newer if available). Please 

And those are dual rank dimms.
Buildzoid was UNABLE to get command rate 1T working with dual rank on *ANY* board, including the Z390 dark, higher than 3466 mhz. In fact many boards just stopped at 3400 mhz with 1T. Regardless of what was thrown at it.
The fact that you were even able to get into windows at 3600 mhz 1T shows just how powerful the Apex XI truly is @Jpmboy

But forget about trying to stabilize 2x16 @ 3600 and 1T. It's probably going to be impossible. No other board can even boot into windows at 1T. You would need single rank dimms.


----------



## marcelo19941

munternet said:


> marcelo19941 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying higher speeds!
> Im going to thight some timmings and try Karhu
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, low latency /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Would it pass GSAT? I find it weeds out the errors.
Click to expand...

Lol wouldnt pass 7% on Karhu, tried loosening some secondary and tertiary but no success


----------



## ViTosS

Do you guys think if I change my Asus Maximus X Hero Z370 for one Asus Maximus XI Apex Z390 I would have better memory OC in general (frequency/timings)? Also, if I increase my cache clock from 4.8 to 5.0Ghz I would have better latency? I'm at 40.2ms right now.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Do you guys think if I change my Asus Maximus X Hero Z370 for one Asus Maximus XI Apex Z390 I would have better memory OC in general (frequency/timings)? Also, if I increase my cache clock from 4.8 to 5.0Ghz I would have better latency? I'm at 40.2ms right now.


I would do it even though it seems you have good results now, but that's just me. Lose the T-Topology if you only want to run 2 sticks.
You should get a bit of coin back for the old board and be ready for your 9900ks 
You must have a good imc on your 8700k.
I would have loved to get that board but they're not available here 
and you get to do it all again 

Edit: By the way, going from the Maximus X 8700k to the Gene XI 9900ks was a nice performance upgrade 
Went from 5.2GHz 6 cores @ 1.48vcore to 5.2GHz 8 cores @ 1.32vcore


----------



## Imprezzion

I am still completely stuck trying to get any frequency over 4400 to even boot.. 4200C16 is rock solid but 4400 will not stabilize at any timing and I'm having a hard time to even get 4500 to boot at all and 4600 is a total no-go so far.. Even on 19-22-22-40-500 and super loose secondaries I can't seem to make 4600 pass POST properly.

Is there anything I can do or any voltage or whatever I can raise to give it a chance at running 4600? I am already using 1.25v IO 1.20v SA for 4200 as my CPU IMC is pretty voltage hungry and it needs at least 1.30v IO 1.25v SA to even stand a chance at booting to windows on 4400 so maybe that's where the limit lies. I tried up to 1.4 IO 1.35 SA and that sort of booted 4500 with a memory_management bsod but 4600 is a no-go so far.


----------



## wafa

does anyone have a list of RAM with Samsung B-Die and A2 PCB layout? non-RGB better


----------



## eminded1

Falkentyne said:


> Upgrade your Asrock Timing Configurator to 4.0.4 (or newer if available). Please
> 
> And those are dual rank dimms.
> Buildzoid was UNABLE to get command rate 1T working with dual rank on *ANY* board, including the Z390 dark, higher than 3466 mhz. In fact many boards just stopped at 3400 mhz with 1T. Regardless of what was thrown at it.
> The fact that you were even able to get into windows at 3600 mhz 1T shows just how powerful the Apex XI truly is @Jpmboy
> 
> But forget about trying to stabilize 2x16 @ 3600 and 1T. It's probably going to be impossible. No other board can even boot into windows at 1T. You would need single rank dimms.


... my boards the z390 hero, but yea I booted at 3600 at 17 18 18 38 1t at 1.35 I just orderd some viper 4400mhz c19 kits of 4x8GB b die and will be getting them toward the end of month ill try those and post back.. but yea I cant touch this ram even dropping to c18 from c19 it will fail large fft in 1 min..

EDIT: I Thanks for the link for asrock.. I included a picture


----------



## Falkentyne

eminded1 said:


> i cant find that verison of as rock configurator... my boards the z390 hero, but yea I booted at 3600 at 17 18 18 38 1t at 1.35 I just orderd some viper 4400mhz c19 kits of 4x8GB b die and will be getting them toward the end of month ill try those and post back.. but yea I cant touch this ram even dropping to c18 from c19 it will fail large fft in 1 min..


https://www.touslesdrivers.com/index.php?v_page=23&v_code=54672&v_langue=en

Link 2 works.


----------



## Carillo

Hello guys. I got my 9900ks today and I have been playing around a little bit. I'm a little confused, because it looks like many of you, especially with MAXIMUS GENE motherboards have no problem booting 4700-5000mhz. No matter what I do, I can't boot beyond 4533mhz, and I think it's a bit strange, because that's exactly where the limit of my 9600K went. I have tried both G.skill 3600 cl15 and G.skill royal 3200 cl14, both dual and single modules. I have also tried up to 1.45V IO and 1.45V SA.Also tried underclocking cpu and cashe 4.5/4,3ghz. What I'm wondering is if there is something I may not have figured out that I need to do to boot like 4800? The chip seems well binned, Prime 95 stable 5.3ghz 1.27vcore HT off. I know the IMC still can be bad, but is it really that far between those good IMC's ? I also have tried this with several 9900k's and 9700K's ? Do i just have bad luck with IMC's??The settings shown in the screenshot, i ran a fast and dirty 100% HCI with all available ram, 0 errors. 1.47 Vdimm. I appreciate all the tips and experiences you may have. Are there any timings I should try to tighten? I have Round Trip Latency Enabled


----------



## eminded1

here me booted on 17 18 18 38 1t @ 3600mhz and everything is stable except prime 95 large fft instant fail hardware failure.

but yea im in windows with those timings and notice speed increase defiantly but I wana find out why I cant pass aida64 mem test and prime 95 large fft..

I don't wana run HCI memtest becuazse it takes up disk usage and I have an qlc nand type ssd that I want to last.

Iv tried

Dram voltage 1.35 - 1.5
VCCIO Voltage .95- 1.4
VCCSA Voltage 1.05 - 1.4
CPU PLL - 1.05- 1.3
Dram VTT - .675 - .725
DMI Voltage .95 - 1.3

I cannot get it stable with prime 95 large fft and memtest aida64. but 17 19 19 39 1t @ 3600 1.35 is stable on aida mem test.


----------



## Carillo

Latency is getting better..


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Latency is getting better..


Great job!

Is this with chiller?


----------



## Apothysis

Carillo said:


> Latency is getting better..



That's a really good latency. Somehow beating my 4300 CL16 with tighter secondaries and tertiaries


----------



## marcelo19941

Guys what is the max voltage to daily on VCCIO and VCCSA?


----------



## Jpmboy

Apothysis said:


> That's a really good latency. Somehow beating my 4300 CL16 with tighter secondaries and tertiaries


IOL offset affecting latency?


----------



## Imprezzion

Carillo said:


> Latency is getting better..


Why is your tWRDR so high lol. 34 is through the roof.


----------



## marcelo19941

Jpmboy said:


> Apothysis said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a really good latency. Somehow beating my 4300 CL16 with tighter secondaries and tertiaries /forum/images/smilies/redface.gif
> 
> 
> 
> IOL offset affecting latency?
Click to expand...

How do i properly ajust IOL and IO offset?


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> Great job!
> 
> Is this with chiller?


Thanks Nizzen. No chiller used here


----------



## Apothysis

Jpmboy said:


> IOL offset affecting latency?


 Tried playing around with it, doesn't seem to be the cause:


offset 25 - 37,4 ns (iol 2)
offset 24 - 37,8 ns (iol 3)
offset 23 - 37,9 ns (iol 4)
offset 22 - 38,8 ns (iol 5) (training failed, should've rebooted)
offset 21 - 38,0 ns (iol 6)


They're all within error margin. This is with pretty much all programs off as well.


----------



## Imprezzion

marcelo19941 said:


> How do i properly ajust IOL and IO offset?


First find the lowest possible RTL Initial value that will POST by raising it by 1 and booting to BIOS.

When that's found, add a Initial Offset (default = 21) to this 1 step higher till it stops POST or until training fails (RTL / IOL is more than 2 apart like, 59/66/4/8). 

That's the quick and dirty way for basic optimization.


----------



## marcelo19941

Imprezzion said:


> marcelo19941 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do i properly ajust IOL and IO offset?
> 
> 
> 
> First find the lowest possible RTL Initial value that will POST by raising it by 1 and booting to BIOS.
> 
> When that's found, add a Initial Offset (default = 21) to this 1 step higher till it stops POST or until training fails (RTL / IOL is more than 2 apart like, 59/66/4/8).
> 
> That's the quick and dirty way for basic optimization.
Click to expand...

But where exactly do i change these values? I have a bunch of RTL and IOL fields, channel A channel B, DIMM 0 DIMM 1, rank 0 rank 1


----------



## andrvas

Any advice on timings I could try to tighten? Feels like I have reached the limit though, this is an old Hynix M-die kit from G.skill (2666c15). Running 1.41v, 1.27v on vccsa and vccio.


----------



## Falkentyne

Carillo said:


> Latency is getting better..


What's with the SG and DG values for TRDWR being so high?
the other two make sense but 34 and 34?
How did they even get there?
What happens if you set them to 16 and 16?


----------



## Carillo

Falkentyne said:


> What's with the SG and DG values for TRDWR being so high?
> the other two make sense but 34 and 34?
> How did they even get there?
> What happens if you set them to 16 and 16?


Because it was set to AUTO. I tried 16 and 16, stable


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> Great job!
> 
> Is this with chiller?


THIS is with chiller


----------



## chibi

Carillo said:


> THIS is with chiller



Your RTL and IO seem off in this screen grab.


----------



## andrvas

Think I've reached the limit of this old kit, any significant timing adjustment will lead to instability. My brother has the same set, he's unable to reach more than 2900MHz, albeit with a different motherboard and CPU. Still impressed though, seeing it's an old G.Skill Ripjaws V 2666MHz CL15 (Hynix MFR). Verified stability in Karhu, gsat and prime95. RAM voltage at 1.41v, SA and IO at 1.27v.


----------



## ViTosS

Guys, does Windows tweaking affect the Latency in AIDA 64 Memory & Cache Benchmark? I ask that because I checked one guy Youtube channel and he has a 8086k at 5.3Ghz I think and RAM [email protected] and he is getting 36.5ns latency, while I have 8700k at 5.0Ghz (tried 5.2 didn't change latency at all) and RAM [email protected] and I reach 39.5ns in latency, we both at 1903, but his Windows 10 1903 is heavily tweaked and optimized for performance, mine is not tweaked as his but is a bit tweaked compared to what he changed in his OS. I mean, would the lower timings he has make that ''huge'' difference from 39.5ns to 36.5ns?


----------



## chibi

ViTosS said:


> Guys, does Windows tweaking affect the Latency in AIDA 64 Memory & Cache Benchmark? I ask that because I checked one guy Youtube channel and he has a 8086k at 5.3Ghz I think and RAM [email protected] and he is getting 36.5ns latency, while I have 8700k at 5.0Ghz (tried 5.2 didn't change latency at all) and RAM [email protected] and I reach 39.5ns in latency, we both at 1903, but his Windows 10 1903 is heavily tweaked and optimized for performance, mine is not tweaked as his but is a bit tweaked compared to what he changed in his OS. I mean, would the lower timings he has make that ''huge'' difference from 39.5ns to 36.5ns?



What was his cache clock compared with yours? That also affects your latency.


----------



## ViTosS

chibi said:


> What was his cache clock compared with yours? That also affects your latency.


This is his test (I forgot to mention he disabled meltdown and spectre protection using InSpectre and I didn't, idk if that affect latency too), and the other image is me trying to reproduce his settings and getting 39.3ns (I tried 5.0Ghz cache clock and didn't change any ns from my usual 4.8Ghz)


----------



## Falkentyne

Anyone here seen this link yet?

https://www.systemverilog.io/understanding-ddr4-timing-parameters

Seems like setting TFAW too high is a VERY VERY bad idea, if that relationship between TRRD_S and TFAW is clear. Like "cut your Gflops in half in LinX 0.9.6" bad.


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> Anyone here seen this link yet?
> 
> https://www.systemverilog.io/understanding-ddr4-timing-parameters
> 
> Seems like setting TFAW too high is a VERY VERY bad idea, if that relationship between TRRD_S and TFAW is clear. Like "cut your Gflops in half in LinX 0.9.6" bad.



yes. Banks and ranks and rows... oh my!  https://www.overclock.net/forum/28188266-post10426.html


----------



## Apothysis

ViTosS said:


> This is his test (I forgot to mention he disabled meltdown and spectre protection using InSpectre and I didn't, idk if that affect latency too), and the other image is me trying to reproduce his settings and getting 39.3ns (I tried 5.0Ghz cache clock and didn't change any ns from my usual 4.8Ghz)



There's a LOT of stuff that can impact latency. I posted a few pages back about my latency feeling high (running 4300 16-16-34, latency was like 39 while it should be sub-35) and did some experimenting. There are a lot of factors that come in play, so I'll mention some of the stuff:


Do you have HWInfo or any other monitoring software running while testing latency?
Do you have Corsair iCUE? (this one's a joke, can add up to 4 ns latency)
Since you mention windows tweaking earlier, I assume you've set your Windows Timer Resolution to 0.5? I found this to have a negative impact on latency (makes sense since Windows is now busy polling stuff more often)


I got my latency down from 39 ns to 34.6 ns after closing iCUE and setting the Windows Timer Resolution to 1 (the default for most people). Increasing the Windows Timer Resolution will further drop your latency but there are of course downsides.


----------



## Jpmboy

guys - you can shave an OS to affect an OS-based tool measuring latency (running under the OS) or any other benchmark running under that OS... but that does not affect the inherent latency of the ram-MB-CPU timing and frequency interaction. That said, lowering DPCs and interrupts... and ensuring that some background service or program is not polling the system at a clock freq below the windows polling rate (as shown by @Apothysis) will affect the AID64 "snapshot" of the performance - but also may affect other uses/performance negatively. Years ago, many gamers fixed poor frame rendering issues (eg, m-stutter) by tweaking the windows polling rate (windows timer settings), which will affect DPC and interrupts - the underlying issue.
Basically, follow the trend in the AID64 latency readout as you look to improve ram performance (eg, , the absolute value is relatively meaningless between OS versions and installs when comparing 1-2 ns differences). Remember, the Copy-rate is likely more relevant to real-world "feel". If you have 32 or 64GB of ram installed, I find a ram cache can be very helpful in overall performance of the machine.


----------



## ViTosS

Apothysis said:


> There's a LOT of stuff that can impact latency. I posted a few pages back about my latency feeling high (running 4300 16-16-34, latency was like 39 while it should be sub-35) and did some experimenting. There are a lot of factors that come in play, so I'll mention some of the stuff:
> 
> 
> Do you have HWInfo or any other monitoring software running while testing latency?
> Do you have Corsair iCUE? (this one's a joke, can add up to 4 ns latency)
> Since you mention windows tweaking earlier, I assume you've set your Windows Timer Resolution to 0.5? I found this to have a negative impact on latency (makes sense since Windows is now busy polling stuff more often)
> 
> 
> I got my latency down from 39 ns to 34.6 ns after closing iCUE and setting the Windows Timer Resolution to 1 (the default for most people). Increasing the Windows Timer Resolution will further drop your latency but there are of course downsides.


I don't have any of those, I never changed Windows Timer Resolution or have iCUE, also not running HWInfo...


----------



## JjX

Hi,


can someone have an idea...


-> i was on a z170 Pro Gaming Asus, at 3733Mhz 14-14-14-28-2T all second and third timing manually fixed by following [email protected] advice on a hwbot thread,
i was RockStable at IO=1.19v / SA 1.24v / The sticks=1.48v (i was on the way to lower that at each reboot when i go time to hurt del, i was at 1.50v)
Everything else on AUTO (voltage) not a lot of choice on progaming...


-> iam now on a MAXIMUS IX EXTREM z270, same stick/cpu/psu, i had very hard time to reach 3733mhz, even at 15-15-15-2T and more! it can boot RANDOMLY, so when i figure that was very random, i tried 3866mhz, that worked, but even more rarely, timming and voltage have no impact,


typical scenario = boot failed at 3733Mhz 14-14-14-2t @ 1.50v -> safe boot -> 1.48v -> failed boot -> 1.50v -> success boot, ROCKSTABLE
sometime that work by adding more to iO/SA, but i can success boot by lowering it too....


SO i tried 2 others sticks (still b-die) A1 (my prefered are thoose, A2), the First bios released, the lastest, the others ram slot... with 4 sticks!...with RTL/IOL fixed, or not....with all timming on auto or fixed with previouly working config...


its like...the board need more Voltage somewhere ...but where ?? Boot voltage ?? eventual voltage ??.... :[ 



If someone have an idea, i would be glad to try it


----------



## Imprezzion

DRAM switching frequency maybe? Or this board somehow has more vdroop on one of the voltages?


----------



## JjX

i tried 300 and 500 in switching frequency, nothing different,


maybe for the drop, i can mesure it ;( But i know in HWinfo and bios reading, voltage are higher than fixed value for SA/IO/DDR +0.03~0.06v so that's not here


----------



## Intrud3r

He guyz ... quick question:

Should I buy the following kit:

F4-3600C16D-32GTZR

Timings are:
16-16-16-36

I can buy this kit for about 220 euro's atm ... would it be a good change from the kit I have now?

Are these B-dies?


----------



## KedarWolf

Intrud3r said:


> He guyz ... quick question:
> 
> Should I buy the following kit:
> 
> F4-3600C16D-32GTZR
> 
> Timings are:
> 16-16-16-36
> 
> I can buy this kit for about 220 euro's atm ... would it be a good change from the kit I have now?
> 
> Are these B-dies?


Those are RGB, b-die I think, but know most RGB kits don't overclock as well as non-RGB.

This kit is pretty much the best 4x8GB kit for overclocking.

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...-ZDDR4-3600MHz-CL16-16-16-36-1.35V32GB-(4x8GB)


----------



## Intrud3r

KedarWolf said:


> Those are RGB, b-die I think, but know most RGB kits don't overclock as well as non-RGB.
> 
> This kit is pretty much the best 4x8GB kit for overclocking.
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...-ZDDR4-3600MHz-CL16-16-16-36-1.35V32GB-(4x8GB)


I like my RGB ... so I'll take the downside of it ...

Other then that ... do you think or would you exchange the kit from the kit that I have now?


Current kit:
XMP = 3200 16-18-18-39-560 (running at 4000 17-22-22)


----------



## Imprezzion

Those should be b-die. The GTZR specifically isn't listed but other color variants are listed as b-die so yeah.

RGB vs non-RGB can make a difference but chip lottery and you running 4 modules 32GB will make a bigger difference than RGB vs non-RGB so no problems there.


----------



## Intrud3r

Imprezzion said:


> Those should be b-die. The GTZR specifically isn't listed but other color variants are listed as b-die so yeah.
> 
> RGB vs non-RGB can make a difference but chip lottery and you running 4 modules 32GB will make a bigger difference than RGB vs non-RGB so no problems there.


Thanks for the info.

Now for the right question .... would you exchange the kit?
Seeing what I have and where I can go ... would you?

Really eager to buy it ... but I wanna somewhat be sure get more out of it then I am currently running


----------



## Imprezzion

Intrud3r said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Now for the right question .... would you exchange the kit?
> Seeing what I have and where I can go ... would you?
> 
> Really eager to buy it ... but I wanna somewhat be sure get more out of it then I am currently running


Coming from 4000 17-22-22 a new b-die kit won't make that big of a difference at all lol. Your very limited by 4 DIMM's and board topology on how your specific board handles 4 DIMM's. I don't know much about that part though. 

I personally would just because I get bored quickly lol and would be happy to have something new to tweak and play with.


----------



## Intrud3r

Imprezzion said:


> Coming from 4000 17-22-22 a new b-die kit won't make that big of a difference at all lol. Your very limited by 4 DIMM's and board topology on how your specific board handles 4 DIMM's. I don't know much about that part though.
> 
> I personally would just because I get bored quickly lol and would be happy to have something new to tweak and play with.


Thank you for your insight.

Seeing that it won't make that much of a difference, if any at all ... I'm hesitant ...

Apart from the fact that I could play with it again ... which is all the fun ... hmmm .... decisions decisions ...


----------



## Jpmboy

Intrud3r said:


> He guyz ... quick question:
> 
> Should I buy the following kit:
> 
> F4-3600C16D-32GTZR
> 
> Timings are:
> 16-16-16-36
> 
> I can buy this kit for about 220 euro's atm ... would it be a good change from the kit I have now?
> 
> Are these B-dies?


that's actually a very good 2x16GB kit, and cheap too... but frankly if you are coming from experience using 8GB sticks, the 16GB sticks are significantly different when overclocking.


----------



## Intrud3r

Jpmboy said:


> that's actually a very good 2x16GB kit, and cheap too... but frankly if you are coming from experience using 8GB sticks, the 16GB sticks are significantly different when overclocking.


This should however be a 4x8 Gb kit.

Oh darn ... just looked at the thing again, it is actually a 2x16 kit ... you were right ... oh my.


----------



## JjX

JjX said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> can someone have an idea...
> 
> 
> -> i was on a z170 Pro Gaming Asus, at 3733Mhz 14-14-14-28-2T all second and third timing manually fixed by following [email protected] advice on a hwbot thread,
> i was RockStable at IO=1.19v / SA 1.24v / The sticks=1.48v (i was on the way to lower that at each reboot when i go time to hurt del, i was at 1.50v)
> Everything else on AUTO (voltage) not a lot of choice on progaming...
> 
> 
> -> iam now on a MAXIMUS IX EXTREM z270, same stick/cpu/psu, i had very hard time to reach 3733mhz, even at 15-15-15-2T and more! it can boot RANDOMLY, so when i figure that was very random, i tried 3866mhz, that worked, but even more rarely, timming and voltage have no impact,
> 
> 
> typical scenario = boot failed at 3733Mhz 14-14-14-2t @ 1.50v -> safe boot -> 1.48v -> failed boot -> 1.50v -> success boot, ROCKSTABLE
> sometime that work by adding more to iO/SA, but i can success boot by lowering it too....
> 
> 
> SO i tried 2 others sticks (still b-die) A1 (my prefered are thoose, A2), the First bios released, the lastest, the others ram slot... with 4 sticks!...with RTL/IOL fixed, or not....with all timming on auto or fixed with previouly working config...
> 
> 
> its like...the board need more Voltage somewhere ...but where ?? Boot voltage ?? eventual voltage ??.... :[
> 
> 
> 
> If someone have an idea, i would be glad to try it



Well i tried switching freq 500khz because this morning it didnt boot, same...so i tried 300 = success boot! but its probably the mood of the board...i will check next reboot..


----------



## Carillo

So. I got my 4400 cl17 settings stable. Ran HCI over night, all fine. But im having boot issues. Totaly random, but everyday! Had the same issue with my 9600K, and now the 9900ks. It wont post, despite its rock stable. Sometimes i need to load optimized defaults, and then load in the profile.. Any idea why this is happening ? its only seems to be an issue at 4400mhz...


----------



## Jpmboy

Carillo said:


> So. I got my 4400 cl17 settings stable. Ran HCI over night, all fine. But im having boot issues. Totaly random, but everyday! Had the same issue with my 9600K, and now the 9900ks. It wont post, despite its rock stable. Sometimes i need to load optimized defaults, and then load in the profile.. Any idea why this is happening ? its only seems to be an issue at 4400mhz...


what board? what post code does it hang at?


----------



## BLUuuE

Got 4300 17-20-20 stable on my Ballistix Elites. 
Took a bit of playing around with termination resistances, VCCSA and VCCIO.
Still have a bit of work to do with the timings.



Spoiler


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> what board? what post code does it hang at?


Maximus Gene. Most of the time it just run trough several codes, and blinks 00 and shuts down. Then it keeps repeating until i post in safe mode. A few times i have seen post code 55 and 7F hang. im on bios 1302


----------



## Nizzen

BLUuuE said:


> Got 4300 17-20-20 stable on my Ballistix Elites.
> Took a bit of playing around with termination resistances, VCCSA and VCCIO.
> Still have a bit of work to do with the timings.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Is it possible to post Aida64 memorybenchmark?

Love from Norway 🙂


----------



## Imprezzion

BLUuuE said:


> Got 4300 17-20-20 stable on my Ballistix Elites.
> Took a bit of playing around with termination resistances, VCCSA and VCCIO.
> Still have a bit of work to do with the timings.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Nice starting point! Try to drop the 20's first and if those won't go lower work on tWR and especially tRFC. 650 is very high lol.


----------



## moorhen2

Carillo said:


> Maximus Gene. Most of the time it just run trough several codes, and blinks 00 and shuts down. Then it keeps repeating until i post in safe mode. A few times i have seen post code 55 and 7F hang. im on bios 1302


Is the Mem ok switch disabled, if not, disable it.


----------



## JjX

BLUuuE said:


> Got 4300 17-20-20 stable on my Ballistix Elites.
> Took a bit of playing around with termination resistances, VCCSA and VCCIO.
> Still have a bit of work to do with the timings.



What do you mean by "playing around with termination resistances" ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Carillo said:


> Maximus Gene. Most of the time it just run trough several codes, and blinks 00 and shuts down. Then it keeps repeating until i post in safe mode. A few times i have seen post code 55 and 7F hang. im on bios 1302


55 is ram Try using at ram boot voltage higher than the "Eventual Dram Voltage". So set the main bios page dram V to 25-50mV higher than the current value and set Eventual Dram V to the current value. In some ways the post training routine is more difficult to pass than stability testing once the training has alignment of signals.


----------



## BradleyW

Hey everyone. Need some help. When I enable XMP, my RAM is set to 4000 MHz which is correct, however VCCIO/SA are set to 1.35v. What would be a good starting voltage for both settings before stability testing? I plan to run GSAT as I've heard this is the best.

In addition, the higher my RAM, the more my games stutter (especially open world games), so I know stability isn't quite right....however my FPS is consistently higher the more I increase the RAM speed, XMP or not...

See details in sig,

Cheers.


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> Hey everyone. Need some help. When I enable XMP, my RAM is set to 4000 MHz which is correct, however VCCIO/SA are set to 1.35v. What would be a good starting voltage for both settings before stability testing? I plan to run GSAT as I've heard this is the best.
> 
> In addition, the higher my RAM, the more my games stutter (especially open world games), so I know stability isn't quite right....however my FPS is consistently higher the more I increase the RAM speed, XMP or not...
> 
> See details in sig,
> 
> Cheers.


Try IO at 1.100v and SA at 1.150v, and try setting ram timings manually. My 4000mhz kit is at 4133 1T using stock 1,350v, and IO and SA are 1.100 and 1.150 respectively. And are two hours Ramtest stable.


----------



## BradleyW

moorhen2 said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey everyone. Need some help. When I enable XMP, my RAM is set to 4000 MHz which is correct, however VCCIO/SA are set to 1.35v. What would be a good starting voltage for both settings before stability testing? I plan to run GSAT as I've heard this is the best.
> 
> In addition, the higher my RAM, the more my games stutter (especially open world games), so I know stability isn't quite right....however my FPS is consistently higher the more I increase the RAM speed, XMP or not...
> 
> See details in sig,
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Try IO at 1.100v and SA at 1.150v, and try setting ram timings manually. My 4000mhz kit is at 4133 1T using stock 1,350v, and IO and SA are 1.100 and 1.150 respectively. And are two hours Ramtest stable.
Click to expand...

Hey, those voltages look seriously low! How interesting. As for timings, do you suggest setting primary timings and let XMP do the rest or disable XMP and let the system train after setting primary timings? 

I've seen ram test fail after 10 hours that's why I use GSAT for a few hours.


----------



## BLUuuE

Nizzen said:


> Is it possible to post Aida64 memorybenchmark?
> 
> Love from Norway 🙂


Sure.



Spoiler


----------



## BLUuuE

Imprezzion said:


> Nice starting point! Try to drop the 20's first and if those won't go lower work on tWR and especially tRFC. 650 is very high lol.


I can't drop tRCD/tRP. tRP can go lower, but they're linked on consumer Intel CPUs.

I tried tWR 16 but that errored after 10 minutes or so.

Extremely high tRFC is a characteristic of Micron Rev. E. I might be able to drop it to 640, maybe 630.


----------



## BLUuuE

JjX said:


> What do you mean by "playing around with termination resistances" ?


I had to try different values of RttWr/Nom/Park.


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> Hey, those voltages look seriously low! How interesting. As for timings, do you suggest setting primary timings and let XMP do the rest or disable XMP and let the system train after setting primary timings?
> 
> I've seen ram test fail after 10 hours that's why I use GSAT for a few hours.


Set all your memory timings manually, I never use XMP.


----------



## munternet

I managed to get my ram booting in 1T but only at 3600MHz. I couldn't get it to boot higher.
Even though it is MUCH lower than 2T it seems to make the CPU perform very well in synthetic benches and it seems very stable also.
I haven't refined it much but it looks promising


----------



## mouacyk

munternet said:


> I managed to get my ram booting in 1T but only at 3600MHz. I couldn't get it to boot higher.
> Even though it is MUCH lower than 2T it seems to make the CPU perform very well in synthetic benches and it seems very stable also.
> I haven't refined it much but it looks promising


That's a great board for overclocking only 2 DIMMs -- you definitely should be able to do 1T up to 4GHz on the DDR4. My 2x8GB 3600C15 are doing 4GHz 16-17-17-36-1T on an EVGA Z370 Micro with 1.425v and 1.15v SA/IO.


----------



## munternet

mouacyk said:


> That's a great board for overclocking only 2 DIMMs -- you definitely should be able to do 1T up to 4GHz on the DDR4. My 2x8GB 3600C15 are doing 4GHz 16-17-17-36-1T on an EVGA Z370 Micro with 1.425v and 1.15v SA/IO.


Any tips on getting it higher?
I tried for a while then gave up 
During training it came up with different mostly single digit numbers it stalled on.


----------



## mouacyk

munternet said:


> Any tips on getting it higher?
> I tried for a while then gave up
> During training it came up with different mostly single digit numbers it stalled on.


EVGA BIOS is pretty limited, as you can see by the high RTL's it set for me. There is no option for me to lower these, except by lowering CAS and tCWL which are at their minimum for stability. So... if your RTL's are lower, you can try using ASUS RTL offset to raise them near these.


----------



## l Nuke l




----------



## ViTosS

l Nuke l said:


>


Insane, that BIOS is better than the previous one? I'm still on the 2102


----------



## moorhen2

On to 4200mhz now, still 1T and IO and SA at 1.100 and 1.150, slight increase in DRAM voltage to 1.380v.


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> 55 is ram Try using at ram boot voltage higher than the "Eventual Dram Voltage". So set the main bios page dram V to 25-50mV higher than the current value and set Eventual Dram V to the current value. In some ways the post training routine is more difficult to pass than stability testing once the training has alignment of signals.


I have 1.5 vdimm, and 1.48 eventual. I have tried both higher and lover voltages, but no difference. I have no also turned OFF the MEK-OK button, but still have issues. But now the 55 code is gone, now it hangs on postcode 23 witch is CPU IMC. DIfference now, is that after some auto-reboots with numbers flashing and the Dram LED flashing, it always gets back to Windows by it self. Just boring to wait like 2-3 minutes everytime i need to reboot. The postcode 23 CPU IMC, what does it tell ? to low SA or IO ?


----------



## Imprezzion

Probably. Or missed training due to RTL/IOL.
Just as a test set SA and IO to 1.25v see if it clears up. You can lower them later on.

I am struggling with something else btw. I got a rock solid OC of 4200-16-17-17 with full manual timings tested in about every imaginable stress test and weeks of daily usage. My timings are in a perfect sweet spot now so I don't wanna edit those so I tried to squeeze the last little bit of headroom out of the frequency but that's where I hit a wall. Even raising frequency to 4266 or 4300 and loosening RTL/IOL or letting the board train them in Auto it will not even pass POST and will just go to the OC failed recovery screen. I am having a hard time believing 66 or 100Mhz increase will just result in no POST.. wierd.


----------



## MikeJeffries

Hi Guys!
Im in the process of overclocking a gaming PC i just built last week. 
I'm not a pro at this, but have been getting alot of help from other members on the forum.
I have The G.Skill Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 4x8gb CL17-17-17-37 sticks (F4-4000C17Q-32GTRS)
I also have the 9900KS on an Asus Rog Maximus XI Extreme motherboard

I have been running overclocks so far and initially I had the VCCIO/SA on auto and someone told me to check what the voltages were and they came up as 1.424 on Auto (under XMP II which set it to the Ram's rated speeds). They told me to immediately turn it down and try 1.15 or 1.20.
I tried 1.20 on both VCCIO/SA, and got L0 cache errors pop up in RealBench 2.56.
Falkentyne in this forum told me it's best to turn off the XMP to narrow down this issue.

I turned it off, When to DDR4-2666 1.15 and 1.20V VCCIO/SA voltages, and my CPU passed an 8hour RealBench test.

So it's definitely the ram VCCIO/VCCSA set to 1.20V each that cause the errors to pop up.
When they were set to AUTO, at 1.424V (under HWiNFO32 when I checked during stress tests I ran yesterday), it worked fine.

So, does this mean 1.20V is too low and I need to just find a higher Voltage for VCCIO/SA for these ram sticks to run at XMP II at rated speeds?

Any suggestions on my situations would be appreciated.


----------



## Imprezzion

MikeJeffries said:


> Hi Guys!
> Im in the process of overclocking a gaming PC i just built last week.
> I'm not a pro at this, but have been getting alot of help from other members on the forum.
> I have The G.Skill Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 4x8gb CL17-17-17-37 sticks (F4-4000C17Q-32GTRS)
> I also have the 9900KS on an Asus Rog Maximus XI Extreme motherboard
> 
> I have been running overclocks so far and initially I had the VCCIO/SA on auto and someone told me to check what the voltages were and they came up as 1.424 on Auto (under XMP II which set it to the Ram's rated speeds). They told me to immediately turn it down and try 1.15 or 1.20.
> I tried 1.20 on both VCCIO/SA, and got L0 cache errors pop up in RealBench 2.56.
> Falkentyne in this forum told me it's best to turn off the XMP to narrow down this issue.
> 
> I turned it off, When to DDR4-2666 1.15 and 1.20V VCCIO/SA voltages, and my CPU passed an 8hour RealBench test.
> 
> So it's definitely the ram VCCIO/VCCSA set to 1.20V each that cause the errors to pop up.
> When they were set to AUTO, at 1.424V (under HWiNFO32 when I checked during stress tests I ran yesterday), it worked fine.
> 
> So, does this mean 1.20V is too low and I need to just find a higher Voltage for VCCIO/SA for these ram sticks to run at XMP II at rated speeds?
> 
> Any suggestions on my situations would be appreciated.


Yeah, it's more likely to be IO than SA as IO controls the cache as well. Bump IO to 1.25v, should be enough. Up to 1.30 is "safe", 1.35 is tolerable, above gets into the questionable zone.


----------



## MikeJeffries

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah, it's more likely to be IO than SA as IO controls the cache as well. Bump IO to 1.25v, should be enough. Up to 1.30 is "safe", 1.35 is tolerable, above gets into the questionable zone.


Thanks I'll try that


----------



## SimplyQQ

Hello everyone.

First let me tell a bit about the system. It's an ASUS Maximus XI Hero with i9-9900K. It's in Meshify C running Kraken X60 on top, some 140s front. The CPU is OCed to 5Ghz all-care with avx offset of 3 at vcore 1.25(ish). It's stable at avx offset 0, but I can't cool it good enough.

The ram is two dual kits of G.Skill TridentZ 3600 C15. The current status of ram OC is this:

Vddr 1.4
Vccio 1.25 (i'm leaving this at time being, will work it down later)
Vcssa 1.25 (same)

RAM running at 4000 with rest of timings posted below. Memtest stable till 1600 with these. I know about tREFI but I will work it back from from 65535 as it seems to lockup while idling with 65535.

Couple of statements:

I don't want higher than 4000 as this is nice round number and I'm fine with it. It doesn't run at 16-16-36 or 16-17-36 at 4000 even with 1.45. I think it might be because ram temperature rises above 45C at that voltage. I think i'm fine with 17-17-36.

So the questions:

1) Has anyone come up with a ram cooling solution besides the ones which attach to end of ram modules? As you can see in photo, this spaces is completely taken up by the kraken on top, so no way to attach there.
2) Can you see any timings which can be further tweaked - safely? I know I had tRDWR running at 11 before BIOS update, which cleared all my profiles after that it doesn't seem to run at 11, but I guess there's headroom there.
3) I've not touched RTL/IO-L as I just don't understand how that works, and I don't like just randomly changing stuff. I've read that I should gradually INCREASE those, but in my testing DECREASING them seems to provide better latency/performance?
4) What kind of test should I use which doesn't take too long and can average couple of runs, so that I can see if the change I've did produces better or worse results?

Thank you very much!


----------



## eminded1

hi so I recived the new ram I bought its:

2 of Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G440C9K 

I installed ram and tried XMP settings all of them at 4400mhz and none of them boot at 4400. so I lowered to 4266 and it booted and I also lowered timings to cl 17, so I think I lucked out on this ram.. 

I got 4x8gb DDR4 c19 4400mhz ram running at 4266mhz c17... 

I tried vccsa 1.25 but it crashed.. the vccsa needs 1.3 to be stable.. is this too much for my cpu, a i9 9900kf? 
Also vccio is at 1.28 is this too high for vccio… I attached a pic of the settings.

I cannot no matter what boot at the xmp value of 4400mhz I tried cl20 no dice.. is there a special settings to make the ram boot at 4400? works fine at 4266..

Also I lucked out this ram turns out to be Samsung b die... so I haven't tried cl16 yet but will post back..

Are my voltages too high for 32gb 4266mhz at cl17? lmw thanks


----------



## chibi

New submission, 9900KS + Apex XI.

CPU OC - 8 hours Realbench v2.56 0 AVX Offset stable (No WHEA Errors)
Cache OC - 3.5 hours Aida64 Cache test stable (No WHEA Errors)

chibi --- i9-9900K @ 5.0/4.7 1.250V --- 4200Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T --- 1.460V --- VSA 1.250V --- VCCIO 1.225V --- HCI Memtest 1000%

Ram Kit - G.SKILL F4-4800C18D-16GTRS


----------



## MikeJeffries

chibi said:


> New submission, 9900KS + Apex XI.
> 
> 
> 
> CPU OC - 8 hours Realbench v2.56 0 AVX Offset stable (No WHEA Errors)
> 
> Cache OC - 3.5 hours Aida64 Cache test stable (No WHEA Errors)
> 
> 
> 
> chibi --- i9-9900K @ 5.0/4.7 1.250V --- 4200Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T --- 1.460V --- VSA 1.250V --- VCCIO 1.225V --- HCI Memtest 1000%
> 
> 
> 
> Ram Kit - G.SKILL F4-4800C18D-16GTRS




I have the maximus xi extreme, 9900KS, and the g.skill trident z royal ddr4-4000 CL17-17-17-37 kit

Im about to finish cpu oc testing and probably leaving it at 5.0 1.30V vcore (its finished 3 stress test so far and i think im stopping here because temps seem good)

But next i needed to get the ram to it’s rated speed. It can do XMP II but vccio/sa on auto takes it to 1.424V. I tried testing it before the cpu oc tests at 1.20V vccio/sa and realbench 1.56 gave whea L0 cache errors

Im not a pro at overclocking but ive been doing alot of reading and been getting alot of help here. 
Your ram seems closest to mine. What voltages do you recommend i test at first? Do you think they’ll pass XMP II with 1.25V vccio and vccsa? 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chibi

MikeJeffries said:


> I have the maximus xi extreme, 9900KS, and the g.skill trident z royal ddr4-4000 CL17-17-17-37 kit
> 
> Im about to finish cpu oc testing and probably leaving it at 5.0 1.30V vcore (its finished 3 stress test so far and i think im stopping here because temps seem good)
> 
> But next i needed to get the ram to it’s rated speed. It can do XMP II but vccio/sa on auto takes it to 1.424V. I tried testing it before the cpu oc tests at 1.20V vccio/sa and realbench 1.56 gave whea L0 cache errors
> 
> Im not a pro at overclocking but ive been doing alot of reading and been getting alot of help here.
> Your ram seems closest to mine. What voltages do you recommend i test at first? Do you think they’ll pass XMP II with 1.25V vccio and vccsa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Follow this as a general guide.

Quick Gains:

Raise frequency, but not to the detriment of CL. Target a frequency/CL combination that makes sense for both transfer rate and latency.
Lower CL (drives RTLs lower), and set tRCD/tRP accordingly.
Lower CR if possible (drives RTLs lower), but not to the detriment of other timings.
Lower tRFC.
Lower tFAW (and tRRD_S with it, see below).
Raise tREFI.
Then work on the other timings. Tight 2nd/3rd timings can have meaningful results.

Voltages:


DRAM Voltage (VDIMM): 1.20 - 1.45V. Some XMP kits go up to 1.50V. Above this is at your own risk.
VCCIO/VCCSA: Use this table as a starting point. (Source)

Timings and "Rules":

Primary Timings:

CL: Start with a safe frequency/CL combination and adjust from there.
tRCD/tRP: Try 0-2 above CL (Samsung B-die) or 1-5 above CL (other ICs).
tRAS: CL + tRCD + tRTP (Source) or CL + tRCD + 2 (Source and Diagram). Min: 28. (Source: ASRock UEFI description)
CR: Try 1, otherwise leave at 2.

Secondary Timings:

tWR: Leave on Auto and control by tWRPRE until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 16, Try: 9-16)
tRFC: Lower as much as possible. JEDEC default for 8Gb ICs: 0.350*XXXX/2 for DDR4-XXXX. (Raja: 350-360, Try: <=default)
tRRD_L: Min spacing is 6. (Raja: 6, Try: 6-8)
tRRD_S: Min spacing is 4. (Raja: 4, Try: 4-6)
tWTR: Min spacing is possibly 4. (Raja: 4, Try: 1-4)
tWTR_L: Leave on Auto and control by tWRRD_sg until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 8, Try: 6-8)
tWTR_S: Leave on Auto and control by tWRRD_dg until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 6, Try: 1-6)
tRTP: Min spacing is supposed to be 4, but this seems to actually be 6 with modern systems due to memory densities. (Raja: 8, Try: 6-8)
tFAW: Min is 4*tRRD_S. (Raja: 16-24, Try: 16-28)
tCWL/tWL: Set to 0-3 lower than CL. (Raja: tCWL = CL, Try: 9-16)

Third Timings:

tREFI: Raise as much as possible. JEDEC default: 7.8*XXXX/2 for DDR4-XXXX. (Raja: 11400-16667, Try: default, 2*default, or max it out)
tCKE: JEDEC sets this to 5-7. (Raja: 6-7, Try: Auto or 6-7)
For all the remaining third timings, I just start with Raja's values and adjust from there. Remember that tWTR_L/tWTR_S are controlled by tWRRD_sg/tWRRD_dg. Raja's values (and ranges to try in parenthesis):

tRDRD_sg: 6 (6-7)
tRDRD_dg: 4 (4)
tRDRD_dr: 6 (5-6)
tRDRD_dd: 6 (5-6)
tRDWR_sg: 15 (12-16)
tRDWR_dg: 15 (12-16)
tRDWR_dr: 16 (12-16)
tRDWR_dd: 16 (12-16)
tWRRD_sg: 35 (<35) (drives tWTR_L)
tWRRD_dg: 29-35 (<35) (drives tWTR_S)
tWRRD_dr: 8 (5-8)
tWRRD_dd: 8 (5-8)
tWRWR_sg: 6 (6-7)
tWRWR_dg: 4 (4)
tWRWR_dr: 8 (5-8)
tWRWR_dd: 8 (5-8)

Misc. Timings:

tWRPRE: 4 + tWR + tCWL. Min: 23, Max: 96. (Source) (Raja: 31)
tRC: tRAS + tRP. (only on some UEFIs, e.g. Gigabyte)

General:
Another trick is to see what the default/JEDEC timings are for DDR4-2133/DDR4-2400/DDR4-2666/etc. by setting everything to Auto (except frequency) and taking some notes. Many of the values end up being the same as the above and it gives insight to what can be adjusted further.

RTLs/IOLs:
RTLs/IOLs should align on their own, if not it's a training issue. If VDIMM/VCCIO/VCCSA adjustments don't help, you can also try the following, in order, one at a time:

Manually set IOL Offsets, then save and reboot and inspect RTLs/IOLs
Manually set IOLs, then save and reboot and inspect RTLs
Manually set RTLs, and hope the system still boots
Remember, if you change memory frequency, CL, or CR, the RTLs change so you'd have to start these steps over from Auto.


----------



## BLUuuE

Spoiler






chibi said:


> Follow this as a general guide.
> 
> Quick Gains:
> 
> Raise frequency, but not to the detriment of CL. Target a frequency/CL combination that makes sense for both transfer rate and latency.
> Lower CL (drives RTLs lower), and set tRCD/tRP accordingly.
> Lower CR if possible (drives RTLs lower), but not to the detriment of other timings.
> Lower tRFC.
> Lower tFAW (and tRRD_S with it, see below).
> Raise tREFI.
> Then work on the other timings. Tight 2nd/3rd timings can have meaningful results.
> 
> Voltages:
> 
> 
> DRAM Voltage (VDIMM): 1.20 - 1.45V. Some XMP kits go up to 1.50V. Above this is at your own risk.
> VCCIO/VCCSA: Use this table as a starting point. (Source)
> 
> Timings and "Rules":
> 
> Primary Timings:
> 
> CL: Start with a safe frequency/CL combination and adjust from there.
> tRCD/tRP: Try 0-2 above CL (Samsung B-die) or 1-5 above CL (other ICs).
> tRAS: CL + tRCD + tRTP (Source) or CL + tRCD + 2 (Source and Diagram). Min: 28. (Source: ASRock UEFI description)
> CR: Try 1, otherwise leave at 2.
> 
> Secondary Timings:
> 
> tWR: Leave on Auto and control by tWRPRE until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 16, Try: 9-16)
> tRFC: Lower as much as possible. JEDEC default for 8Gb ICs: 0.350*XXXX/2 for DDR4-XXXX. (Raja: 350-360, Try: <=default)
> tRRD_L: Min spacing is 6. (Raja: 6, Try: 6-8)
> tRRD_S: Min spacing is 4. (Raja: 4, Try: 4-6)
> tWTR: Min spacing is possibly 4. (Raja: 4, Try: 1-4)
> tWTR_L: Leave on Auto and control by tWRRD_sg until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 8, Try: 6-8)
> tWTR_S: Leave on Auto and control by tWRRD_dg until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 6, Try: 1-6)
> tRTP: Min spacing is supposed to be 4, but this seems to actually be 6 with modern systems due to memory densities. (Raja: 8, Try: 6-8)
> tFAW: Min is 4*tRRD_S. (Raja: 16-24, Try: 16-28)
> tCWL/tWL: Set to 0-3 lower than CL. (Raja: tCWL = CL, Try: 9-16)
> 
> Third Timings:
> 
> tREFI: Raise as much as possible. JEDEC default: 7.8*XXXX/2 for DDR4-XXXX. (Raja: 11400-16667, Try: default, 2*default, or max it out)
> tCKE: JEDEC sets this to 5-7. (Raja: 6-7, Try: Auto or 6-7)
> For all the remaining third timings, I just start with Raja's values and adjust from there. Remember that tWTR_L/tWTR_S are controlled by tWRRD_sg/tWRRD_dg. Raja's values (and ranges to try in parenthesis):
> 
> tRDRD_sg: 6 (6-7)
> tRDRD_dg: 4 (4)
> tRDRD_dr: 6 (5-6)
> tRDRD_dd: 6 (5-6)
> tRDWR_sg: 15 (12-16)
> tRDWR_dg: 15 (12-16)
> tRDWR_dr: 16 (12-16)
> tRDWR_dd: 16 (12-16)
> tWRRD_sg: 35 (<35) (drives tWTR_L)
> tWRRD_dg: 29-35 (<35) (drives tWTR_S)
> tWRRD_dr: 8 (5-8)
> tWRRD_dd: 8 (5-8)
> tWRWR_sg: 6 (6-7)
> tWRWR_dg: 4 (4)
> tWRWR_dr: 8 (5-8)
> tWRWR_dd: 8 (5-8)
> 
> Misc. Timings:
> 
> tWRPRE: 4 + tWR + tCWL. Min: 23, Max: 96. (Source) (Raja: 31)
> tRC: tRAS + tRP. (only on some UEFIs, e.g. Gigabyte)
> 
> General:
> Another trick is to see what the default/JEDEC timings are for DDR4-2133/DDR4-2400/DDR4-2666/etc. by setting everything to Auto (except frequency) and taking some notes. Many of the values end up being the same as the above and it gives insight to what can be adjusted further.
> 
> RTLs/IOLs:
> RTLs/IOLs should align on their own, if not it's a training issue. If VDIMM/VCCIO/VCCSA adjustments don't help, you can also try the following, in order, one at a time:
> 
> Manually set IOL Offsets, then save and reboot and inspect RTLs/IOLs
> Manually set IOLs, then save and reboot and inspect RTLs
> Manually set RTLs, and hope the system still boots
> Remember, if you change memory frequency, CL, or CR, the RTLs change so you'd have to start these steps over from Auto.






Why didn't you link the original post or at least credit the guy who wrote this?

https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html


----------



## chibi

BLUuuE said:


> Why didn't you link the original post or at least credit the guy who wrote this?
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html



Maybe because it’s a copy paste from my notes file with various overclocking tidbits taken from all over the web.


----------



## MikeJeffries

chibi said:


> Maybe because it’s a copy paste from my notes file with various overclocking tidbits taken from all over the web.




I wasnt going to be going this deep into it

I needed to just turn on XMP and try to get voltages down from what AUTO was setting them up at, which was 1.424V. I dont plan on overclocking the ram except to get it to it’s rated speeds 4000nhz CL17-17-17-37

Are you using XMP II With your ram settings or XMP I?


----------



## JjX

Carillo said:


> I have 1.5 vdimm, and 1.48 eventual. I have tried both higher and lover voltages, but no difference. I have no also turned OFF the MEK-OK button, but still have issues. But now the 55 code is gone, now it hangs on postcode 23 witch is CPU IMC. DIfference now, is that after some auto-reboots with numbers flashing and the Dram LED flashing, it always gets back to Windows by it self. Just boring to wait like 2-3 minutes everytime i need to reboot. The postcode 23 CPU IMC, what does it tell ? to low SA or IO ?





Seems we have same issue, maybe...everything is different...but if we admit it is the same issue, please let me know your next steps! 

i tried to play with eventual V too, nothing came out from here, iam still sure we are missing something


----------



## moorhen2

JjX said:


> Seems we have same issue, maybe...everything is different...but if we admit it is the same issue, please let me know your next steps!
> 
> i tried to play with eventual V too, nothing came out from here, iam still sure we are missing something


At the end of the day, some IMC's and memory sticks are just not capable of running some frequencies no mater what voltages you try and push.


----------



## Imprezzion

But that's the thing. The sticks run it, they just fail POST sometimes if I read the posts from both members correctly.

Just try a substantially higher VCCIO and SA, use like.. 1.25v SA 1.30v IO, still well within safe margins, and see if the problems clear up. If they do, lower them slowly till the problems return and choose the last used voltage that didn't show the problems. Coffee Lake is very picky with IO and SA voltage especially with a cache frequency above 4600-4700Mhz.


----------



## JjX

moorhen2 said:


> At the end of the day, some IMC's and memory sticks are just not capable of running some frequencies no mater what voltages you try and push.



True, very true...but i dont ask much more than before to my IMC, i was on z170 ProGaming at 3733c14 with 100% success boot,
i just switched the board for a Maximus IX Extreme, witch offer more control on voltage, 



but i cant stabilize boot at same parameter (or not ...i tried very more IO and SA yes, and even 1.50++ on dram, nothing different :s )


----------



## chibi

MikeJeffries said:


> I wasnt going to be going this deep into it
> 
> I needed to just turn on XMP and try to get voltages down from what AUTO was setting them up at, which was 1.424V. I dont plan on overclocking the ram except to get it to it’s rated speeds 4000nhz CL17-17-17-37
> 
> Are you using XMP II With your ram settings or XMP I?



No to either XMP, I've only used manual overclocking. For 4000, try to use between 1.20 - 1.3 io and sa voltages.


----------



## MikeJeffries

chibi said:


> No to either XMP, I've only used manual overclocking. For 4000, try to use between 1.20 - 1.3 io and sa voltages.




Ye i just ran real bench 2.56 8hr and passed with 1.25 and 1.30V xmp II
See below











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## moorhen2

Update on the 4200mhz 1T, dropped dram voltage to 1.365v, dropped IO one notch to 1.09375v, and upped SA to 1.15625v.


----------



## chibi

MikeJeffries said:


> Ye i just ran real bench 2.56 8hr and passed with 1.25 and 1.30V xmp II
> See below
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's nice and all, but Realbench shouldn't be your memory stability test. I suggest you go to the first page and read through the OP. Scone put in a lot of work with notes to help you with your memory.


----------



## NIK1

Does anyone have a MSI motherboard that can help me OC 16 gigs/4 sticks of G Skill TridentX F3-2400C9-4GTXD ddr3 on a older MSI Z97 MPower Max AC.I am trying to OC it to 2600 or 2666 and am almost there but not stable when stress testing.Boots into windows fine but crashes stressing.To boot into windows they need 1.70v Dram volts,I am at 1.200v SA volts but not quite sure on the IO volts on which one I need to fiddle with to get it to be stable.With MSI mb's there are two IO settings.CPU IO Analog and CPU IO Digital voltage.On this older Z97 system it has two IO settings and my I am used to my Z270 Apex which has one IO setting.Do I adjust both the Analog and Digital or just one of them.Eenie Meanie Miney Moe,catch a IO by the toe.Lol..I am thinking its the Digital one but I suppose diehard MSI overclockers would know for sure.Any help appreciated...


----------



## chibi

Like HCI Memtest, but hate opening up multiple instances?! Be on the look out for an upcoming release.


----------



## BLUuuE

NIK1 said:


> Does anyone have a MSI motherboard that can help me OC 16 gigs/4 sticks of G Skill TridentX F3-2400C9-4GTXD ddr3 on a older MSI Z97 MPower Max AC.I am trying to OC it to 2600 or 2666 and am almost there but not stable when stress testing.Boots into windows fine but crashes stressing.To boot into windows they need 1.70v Dram volts,I am at 1.200v SA volts but not quite sure on the IO volts on which one I need to fiddle with to get it to be stable.With MSI mb's there are two IO settings.CPU IO Analog and CPU IO Digital voltage.On this older Z97 system it has two IO settings and my I am used to my Z270 Apex which has one IO setting.Do I adjust both the Analog and Digital or just one of them.Eenie Meanie Miney Moe,catch a IO by the toe.Lol..I am thinking its the Digital one but I suppose diehard MSI overclockers would know for sure.Any help appreciated...


What are your timings?

I'm pretty sure those sticks use 2Gb D-die which is one of the best DDR3 ICs.


----------



## NIK1

Stock timings are 9 11 11 31


----------



## BLUuuE

NIK1 said:


> Stock timings are 9 11 11 31


Loosen them to 12-14-14-34 or so and see how high you can get your DRAM frequency.

After you've found your max frequency, just work on tightening the timings.


----------



## NIK1

Thanks BLUuue I will give it a try...What about voltages.Just leave them on auto.


----------



## munternet

Dropped the CPU down a notch to 5.1
Tested ok @ 5.2GHz but prolonged BFV sent me back to desktop on a particularly hot day so I figured maybe the heat buildup in the CPU IMC caused the problem.
CPU 5.1 @ 1.3v
Cache 4800
mem 4400-17-17-17-36-2T @ 1.44v
SA and IO are set to 1.34v

Tried for 1T but couldn't get past 3600MHz


----------



## NIK1

I have 2600mhz dialed in at 10 12 12 32 2t at 1.70volts with SA volts at 1.220v and IO Digital and IO Analog at 1.080v and boots into windows fine.I ran Aida64 mem test for a quick test and it fails the test in 20 sec.Gona try some higher voltages to see if I can get it stable.Any recommendations on some voltages to try.


----------



## chibi

munternet said:


> Dropped the CPU down a notch to 5.1
> Tested ok @ 5.2GHz but prolonged BFV sent me back to desktop on a particularly hot day so I figured maybe the heat buildup in the CPU IMC caused the problem.
> CPU 5.1 @ 1.3v
> Cache 4800
> mem 4400-17-17-17-36-2T @ 1.44v
> SA and IO are set to 1.34v
> 
> Tried for 1T but couldn't get past 3600MHz



I'm surprised your Gene can't do 1T past 3600. I was able to post 1T up to 4400 C17 with moderate voltages, but couldn't consistently train RTL's correctly. Pushing past 1.25 IO / SA voltages is out of my comfort zone so I didn't bother to dial in 4400 and stuck with 4200 C16 1T.


----------



## munternet

chibi said:


> I'm surprised your Gene can't do 1T past 3600. I was able to post 1T up to 4400 C17 with moderate voltages, but couldn't consistently train RTL's correctly. Pushing past 1.25 IO / SA voltages is out of my comfort zone so I didn't bother to dial in 4400 and stuck with 4200 C16 1T.


Maybe it's my sticks? I would be keen to work it out 

Edit: I thought it might also be due to a bios update. I noticed on my Maximus X Hero the last bios update changed the memory tuning a fair bit and made things more "solid". I wouldn't be surprised if they made changes across the range? Just speculating....
I would be real keen to know your settings, and bios version. Cheers 

Another Edit: Managed to get past 3600 1T. Had to change some settings at the bottom of the dram timings section. Not a fantastic overclock but better 
4133-17-17-17-36-1T
Dram 1.4v
vccio 1.3v
vccsa 1.3v


----------



## MikeJeffries

Hi again guys!
I'm testing my Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL17-17-17-37 4x8gb ram through HCI MemTestPro
I will run it up to 32,000mb until 200%
I already ran Karhus Software for over an hour and passed.

Assuming HCI MemTestPro finishes without errors and I see no WHEA errors,
is it safe to assume my ram settings are good?

I only set XMP II and change VCCIO to 1.21875V and VCCSA to 1.225V

(I previously had L0 Cache WHEA errors come up when I tried 1.20V for both VCCIO/SA)


----------



## whitepuzzle

Is it unusual that even a value of 350 for tRFC freezes computer in 30 minutes of large FFT? 3200C14 B-die. 1.5V DRAM, 1.35V SA, 1.25V IO. The settings are confirmed stable without the tRFC adjustment as they passed 27 hours of blend.

And is it worth trying to dial back the frequency and look for potential better frequency and timing combinations, or should I just get the best timings possible on the highest possible frequency? No matter how loose I make the timings, even at 1.5V DRAM, my PC won't boot higher than 4133MHz. Is it the IMC limitation?


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## JoeRambo

mraksoll said:


> Hello all
> 
> it was unstable even with sa and io 1.2 , so i find this settings and incress them



I'd start with bumping AB / CD DRAM voltages a bit, maybe 1.375V, maybe 1.4V, but not sure how Hynix chips respond to voltage increase, everyone here worships Samsung B-Die based ones.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## Lurifaks

Hello, i wonder if this is the right way to use memtest with 16 GB (2x8) of ram ?

Regards


----------



## Imprezzion

B-Die is fun for high frequency but on lower frequencies Hynix can be fun. I have a set of Hynix MFR powered Vengeance RGB that do 3000Mhz CL11-12-12-28-400-1T on pretty a low voltage of 1.325v.
Problem with those chips is that they just don't scale at all above 3200Mhz in terms of timings vs frequency.


----------



## KedarWolf

Lurifaks said:


> Hello, i wonder if this is the right way to use memtest with 16 GB (2x8) of ram ?
> 
> Regards


Just put the right one in your MemTest folder. 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...390-aorus-owners-thread-408.html#post28092766


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## Lurifaks

KedarWolf said:


> Just put the right one in your MemTest folder.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...390-aorus-owners-thread-408.html#post28092766


Thanks 

But i get this , I must be doing something wrong


----------



## KedarWolf

Lurifaks said:


> Thanks
> 
> But i get this , I must be doing something wrong


Oh yes, my script doesn't work with the newer versions of MemTest.

Try this one.

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/releases


----------



## Lurifaks

KedarWolf said:


> Oh yes, my script doesn't work with the newer versions of MemTest.
> 
> Try this one.
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/releases



Thank you so much for your help


----------



## MacTavishPapa6

Hi guys,

I'm new to the forums and RAM overclocking so be kind on me haha 

So I've got a G.Skill DDR4 TridentZ RGB 4133Mhz PC4-33000 CL17 1.4V Dual Channel Kit (2x8GB) and the pictures attached show where I've got to.

I'm just wondering if you guys could give me any advice/recommendations on what I can do to tighten things up.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Imprezzion

MacTavishPapa6 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm new to the forums and RAM overclocking so be kind on me haha
> 
> So I've got a G.Skill DDR4 TridentZ RGB 4133Mhz PC4-33000 CL17 1.4V Dual Channel Kit (2x8GB) and the pictures attached show where I've got to.
> 
> I'm just wondering if you guys could give me any advice/recommendations on what I can do to tighten things up.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Hehe nice, same board I got. You don't see many people rockin' a MSI Ace. 

Start dropping tRFC like, a lot. 700+ is way too high. I'm assuming these are B-Die? Then anything from 400 to as low as 280 can go depending on where they are stable. When you find a stable low tRFC, raise tREFI by doubling the value it has now, test, if stable, double again andsoforth till you reach instability or till it's maxed at 65xxx. 

Also, tWR needs to go way way down. Adjust it with tWRPRE (3rd table in the timing list on the Ace). tWRPRE is tWR+tCWL+4. So, if tCWL is 20 and you want 16 tWR set tWRPRE to 40. The rest is pretty clean already.


----------



## KedarWolf

Lurifaks said:


> Thank you so much for your help


What CPU do you have? You want to run one HCI for each thread, so like a 9900k 16 instances of HCI, for 16GB of RAM around 751MB each.


----------



## MacTavishPapa6

Imprezzion said:


> Hehe nice, same board I got. You don't see many people rockin' a MSI Ace.
> 
> Start dropping tRFC like, a lot. 700+ is way too high. I'm assuming these are B-Die? Then anything from 400 to as low as 280 can go depending on where they are stable. When you find a stable low tRFC, raise tREFI by doubling the value it has now, test, if stable, double again andsoforth till you reach instability or till it's maxed at 65xxx.
> 
> Also, tWR needs to go way way down. Adjust it with tWRPRE (3rd table in the timing list on the Ace). tWRPRE is tWR+tCWL+4. So, if tCWL is 20 and you want 16 tWR set tWRPRE to 40. The rest is pretty clean already.


I love it but I admit I'm a bit of an MSI fanboi, ever since I owned an MSI GeForce FX5600. I've only just built this PC and it's the first one I've built in 15 years hehe.

They are but I've just ran Karhu RAM Test and I'm getting an error pretty quickly. What can I do to find settings that will be stable?


----------



## Lurifaks

KedarWolf said:


> What CPU do you have? You want to run one HCI for each thread, so like a 9900k 16 instances of HCI, for 16GB of RAM around 751MB each.


9900ks , so the "9900k16GBMemTestFree" worked perfect it seems


----------



## KedarWolf

Lurifaks said:


> 9900ks , so the "9900k16GBMemTestFree" worked perfect it seems


Glad it worked. 

It's a really good program I wrote and compiled with autohotkey. Mind you borrowed and modified the code from someone else, my programming skills suck.

It actually assigns each instance of HCI to one thread, each on it's own logical core, a much better way to run MemTest than just opening 16 instances randomly.


----------



## Carillo

33.6ns


----------



## Imprezzion

MacTavishPapa6 said:


> I love it but I admit I'm a bit of an MSI fanboi, ever since I owned an MSI GeForce FX5650. I've only just built this PC and it's the first one I've built in 15 years hehe.
> 
> They are but I've just ran Karhu RAM Test and I'm getting an error pretty quickly. What can I do to find settings that will be stable?


I have had a lot of ASUS stuff in the past but when I got a great deal on this RTX2080 which was MSI I wanted my new build to be all MSI Mystic Sync RGB controlled and I loved my Z170 Gaming M7 as it was a total beast of a board so yeah.

What IO, SA and DRAM voltage are you on? Your close to stable so maybe a bit of voltage here and there can save you here. Also, is this with or without Improved settings on RTL/IO and tertiary timings enabled?


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> 33.6ns


Do you have a shot of your HWinfo64 to see the voltages and temps?


----------



## chibi

Carillo said:


> 33.6ns



Excellent score, looks like the 5.5 GHz Core / 5.2 GHz cache is doing a lot of work though!


----------



## MacTavishPapa6

Imprezzion said:


> MacTavishPapa6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love it but I admit I'm a bit of an MSI fanboi, ever since I owned an MSI GeForce FX5650. I've only just built this PC and it's the first one I've built in 15 years hehe.
> 
> They are but I've just ran Karhu RAM Test and I'm getting an error pretty quickly. What can I do to find settings that will be stable?
> 
> 
> 
> I have had a lot of ASUS stuff in the past but when I got a great deal on this RTX2080 which was MSI I wanted my new build to be all MSI Mystic Sync RGB controlled and I loved my Z170 Gaming M7 as it was a total beast of a board so yeah.
> 
> What IO, SA and DRAM voltage are you on? Your close to stable so maybe a bit of voltage here and there can save you here. Also, is this with or without Improved settings on RTL/IO and tertiary timings enabled?
Click to expand...

Well I played around a bit and the computer was unstable, Cinebench kept crashing and I was getting memory errors like I said. I didn’t change any of the timings I showed you, they were the XMP timings running at 4400.

I went back to XMP 4133, lowered IO and SA down to 1.3V and I changed CPU Overvoltage Protection to Auto from Enhanced. CPU Voltage set to 1.3V and CPU on 5.1 Core and 4.8 Cache. LLC set to Mode 4.

Cinebench ran successfully but I feel like I’m not in an optimal place right now. I wonder if the instability was being caused by the CPU Overvoltage Protection setting rather than anything else. What BIOS settings do you run and what are your voltages set to?


----------



## Carillo

chibi said:


> New submission, 9900KS + Apex XI.
> 
> CPU OC - 8 hours Realbench v2.56 0 AVX Offset stable (No WHEA Errors)
> Cache OC - 3.5 hours Aida64 Cache test stable (No WHEA Errors)
> 
> chibi --- i9-9900K @ 5.0/4.7 1.250V --- 4200Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T --- 1.460V --- VSA 1.250V --- VCCIO 1.225V --- HCI Memtest 1000%
> 
> Ram Kit - G.SKILL F4-4800C18D-16GTRS


Nice results  Are you able to boot XMP with this kit ?


----------



## NIK1

Last night I got my old MSI Z97 MPower Max AC with G Skill TridentX F3-2400C9-4GTXD ddr3 overclocked to 2600mhz 10-12-12 32-2t with most of the primary and secondary timings tightened up.Working good and stable.There is just one more setting I want to drop from 5 to 4 which is TRDRD.Going from 5 to 4 gives the Read speed a boost from 32277 mbs to 39259 and Copy speed from 35246 mbs to 38639.Only thing is with TRDRD at 4 the OC is not stable and hardware failure in Aida64 mem test in 15 to 20 sec.Any ideas on what voltages I need to bump to make this work at 4..I tried SA volts up to 1.275v.Dram volts are at 1.700v and I tried increasing it up to 1.780 with no effect.Never played with the IO voltages since there is 2 of them on this MSI mb. IO Digital and IO Analog.Anyone have any suggestions on what to try or am I stuck with TRDRD at 5.Maybe I should just stick to my stable 2400 9-11-11-24-1t oc.Any thoughts...


----------



## moorhen2

This Team Group 4000mhz kit don't like high voltages, got it at 4500mhz with 1.435v, IO 1.268v and SA 1.275v. Two hours Ramtest.


----------



## chibi

Carillo said:


> Nice results  Are you able to boot XMP with this kit ?



I haven't tried. The xmp profile will request for SA in the 1.5v range which I'm not comfortable with. I limit my overclock to 1.25v sa for daily driver and just try for the best.


----------



## Imprezzion

MacTavishPapa6 said:


> Well I played around a bit and the computer was unstable, Cinebench kept crashing and I was getting memory errors like I said. I didn’t change any of the timings I showed you, they were the XMP timings running at 4400.
> 
> I went back to XMP 4133, lowered IO and SA down to 1.3V and I changed CPU Overvoltage Protection to Auto from Enhanced. CPU Voltage set to 1.3V and CPU on 5.1 Core and 4.8 Cache. LLC set to Mode 4.
> 
> Cinebench ran successfully but I feel like I’m not in an optimal place right now. I wonder if the instability was being caused by the CPU Overvoltage Protection setting rather than anything else. What BIOS settings do you run and what are your voltages set to?


I use adaptive+offset for the CPU with +0.080v offset for 5.1Ghz CPU and 4.8Ghz cache with 0 AVX offset.

IO is set to 1.30v, SA to 1.25v and RAM voltage 1.50v.

OVP / OCP enhanced, power limits and durations all maxed, Auto LLC on the RAM and Level 4 on the CPU with 350 switching frequency.
The VRM is set to thermal balance as well and not to current balance.
I do still use all the EIST and C-State functions and have normal downclocking and power saving in Balanced windows energy profile.

RAM is all manual with enhanced latency mode enabled on secondary timings and RTL/IO but manually tweaked further. RTL/IO is quite picky on this board / RAM and I use 64/64/1/1 Initial with 24 offsets. This trains perfectly every time to 60/61/1/1 with my timings.

It will draw a really high amount of amps especially in AVX/FMA3 but I can cool it pretty easily so far with my lapped to the bare copper CPU and EK Phoenix kit. Power draw sits at about 230w 185A @ 1.248v VR VOut in the worst tests in Prime95 AVX/FMA3 small fft with temps in the mid 80c range.

RAM sits around 45-46c in stresstests and around 40c while gaming but this is with a 120mm blowing air directly on the DIMM's and with 2x8GB with 1 slot spacing between them so plenty of airflow there.

My chips get unstable above 50c so I have to run like this haha.


----------



## Jpmboy

mraksoll said:


> problem not at voltage how i was say at prime deluxe x299 mb all was work with 1.35 and deffault sa , io
> i was try incress even to 1.45 and sa 1.25 io 1.25 at omega , it's no fix problem.
> 
> So there is somting incorrect at timings. And i cannot figurate self at what timings is problem.
> 
> need undestand how at my mb calculate 3nd timing , problem 90% at them. I cannot find any formulas for this timings , 99% formulas contain timings what not avaliable at rog rampage omega mb ...


on the Omega, disable the MemOkay switch and enter the XMP timings and voltage manually, then go from there. Avoid using XMP and MemOkay. If you scroll back thru this thread you'll find posts I made with that board and 64GB of ram running at 4200c17 (using 3600c16 sticks).


----------



## Hydroplane

Was wondering why my Sims 4 game crashed after 2 hours... forgot I left my ram set at 4800 20-20-20-40... lol


----------



## chibi

New HCI Memtest major upgrade is now available. It has a built in GUI to let you allocate threads and ram allocation. Pretty nifty upgrade for those who have purchased within 1-year. If not, then it's a $5 purchase for a useful tool.

Tightened up my third timings and tweaked RTL offsets for lower IO - 4200 C16 CR1.

chibi --- i9-9900K @ 5.0/4.7 1.255Vcore --- 4200Mhz-C16-16-16-38-1T --- 1.460Vram --- VSA 1.250V --- VCCIO 1.225V --- HCI Memtest 1300%

Ram Kit - G.SKILL F4-4800C18D-16GTRS


----------



## MikeJeffries

chibi said:


> New HCI Memtest major upgrade is now available. It has a built in GUI to let you allocate threads and ram allocation. Pretty nifty upgrade for those who have purchased within 1-year. If not, then it's a $5 purchase for a useful tool.
> 
> 
> 
> Tightened up my third timings and tweaked RTL offsets for lower IO.




Was this upgrade emailed to you or do you have to download it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chibi

MikeJeffries said:


> Was this upgrade emailed to you or do you have to download it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I would suggest you contact the author and see if you're eligible for the upgrade. I was beta testing this so I was in a bit early.


----------



## MikeJeffries

chibi said:


> I would suggest you contact the author and see if you're eligible for the upgrade. I was beta testing this so I was in a bit early.




Ok thanks i just got mine last week. I’ll email him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BLUuuE

Finally got 4133 16-16-16 CR1T stable.
Still have a bit of work to do on the subtimings.



Spoiler















AIDA:


Spoiler


----------



## Matt-Matt

Hey team,

Have a delidded 8700K @5.2/4.6 LLC Turbo and 1.38v (Still playing with uncore)
3400Mhz C16-17-17-34-1T 1.35v
SA 1.05v
IO 1.10v

I can pass Passmarks Memtest for 4 runs with the above, looking for some advice on what I can do with the memory in terms of speed.

Stock is 3000Mhz, C16-18-18-38-2T 1.35v so I'm already doing decent considering it was a lower end kit.

I'll definitely post here once I get a final config set.


----------



## mouacyk

BLUuuE said:


> Finally got 4133 16-16-16 CR1T stable.
> Still have a bit of work to do on the subtimings.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AIDA:
> 
> 
> Spoiler


What is the base kit? Please upload images here -- can't see your images on imgur.


----------



## marcelo19941

Does anyone know if the asrock z390 itx is worse at memory oc than the strix z390-i? My 9900ks is frying my z390-i VRMs


----------



## Nizzen

marcelo19941 said:


> Does anyone know if the asrock z390 itx is worse at memory oc than the strix z390-i? My 9900ks is frying my z390-i VRMs


Do you play games when the VRM is very hot, or do you play Prime95 with AVX?

If the VRM is too hot when gaming, or using normal programs, then you have no airflow in you're case  If you play Cinebench 24/7, Strix gaming board is not for you, and you bought the wrong motherboard


----------



## marcelo19941

Nizzen said:


> Do you play games when the VRM is very hot, or do you play Prime95 with AVX?
> 
> If the VRM is too hot when gaming, or using normal programs, then you have no airflow in you're case  If you play Cinebench 24/7, Strix gaming board is not for you, and you bought the wrong motherboard


While gaming no, but its kinda scary to see it reaching 116C when im doing stress tests like P95 or Aida. I have a Noctua A12 pointing directly to the board and its reaching this temperatures.


----------



## 8051

Is it commonplace for Coffee Lake CPU's to be able to get their memory to 4000+ Mhz. speeds? Or is it a rarity?


----------



## Nizzen

8051 said:


> Is it commonplace for Coffee Lake CPU's to be able to get their memory to 4000+ Mhz. speeds? Or is it a rarity?


Very common


----------



## Nizzen

marcelo19941 said:


> While gaming no, but its kinda scary to see it reaching 116C when im doing stress tests like P95 or Aida. I have a Noctua A12 pointing directly to the board and its reaching this temperatures.


If you think it's scary, why run Prime 95 that will use the cpu WAY harder than ANY other program you'll ever use?

Run Asus realbench or play Battlefield V for stresstesting  BF V is maybe the best stresstest, because this game HATES unstable cpu's and unstable memory. 

It's like drive a car in 1. gear with max rpm in many miles, just to see if the car is up to it...


----------



## Imprezzion

8051 said:


> Is it commonplace for Coffee Lake CPU's to be able to get their memory to 4000+ Mhz. speeds? Or is it a rarity?


Quite common. They might need a bit more IO/SA voltage from stock to do 4000+ if it's a particularly poor sample but I haven't seen a 9xxx that can't do at least 4200Mhz. 

As for the other poster, 116C is extremely high for the VRM. It's not immediately dangerous since they are rated to 120c at least but at highly reduced current output and efficiency meaning higher temps and possibly more vdroop. The board is capable of theoretically outputting 270A continuous load but only with "extreme" cooling like a full-cover VRM waterblock.


----------



## Intrud3r

Just can't stand it .... C17-22-22 with my Hynix die's ... I want C16-22-22.

Tested yesterday evening with Karhu Ramtest ... got 1 error at 3000+ %

Today got back from work, changed Trefi back to default and twr back to 16 (evening before twr lowered gave me problems) and upped my DDR Voltage to 1.480V.

Testing testing ... Karhu just passed 505%  onto 5000-6000 ... I hope.
(atm C16-22-22-40-540-12768 @ 1.480V)
(and actually testing at 5.1 / 4.8 so we'll see if my uncore likes this)

1000+ % ... still rocking ... common precious ... you can do it !!!


----------



## marcelo19941

Nizzen said:


> If you think it's scary, why run Prime 95 that will use the cpu WAY harder than ANY other program you'll ever use?
> 
> Run Asus realbench or play Battlefield V for stresstesting  BF V is maybe the best stresstest, because this game HATES unstable cpu's and unstable memory.
> 
> It's like drive a car in 1. gear with max rpm in many miles, just to see if the car is up to it...


You are right, but still... the VRM of this board seems to have very bad cooling, i will try to change the thermal pads to some high performance ones


----------



## Imprezzion

I'd have called it "stable" with 1 error at 3000% lol. Your never going to notice that in real-life usage lol. 

I only tested my RAM OC about 1300% with no errors and I'm fine with it lol. Haven't had a single crash or error in eventvwr since the test. 

Still, it's quite a good OC for those Hynix's. Are they AFR, BFR, CFR or MFR?


----------



## Intrud3r

Imprezzion said:


> I'd have called it "stable" with 1 error at 3000% lol. Your never going to notice that in real-life usage lol.
> 
> I only tested my RAM OC about 1300% with no errors and I'm fine with it lol. Haven't had a single crash or error in eventvwr since the test.
> 
> Still, it's quite a good OC for those Hynix's. Are they AFR, BFR, CFR or MFR?


Wanna see how far it goes, but if you are right ... I'm quite happy already 

Mine are Hynix AFR / maybe CFR cause they might be mislabled I learned (serial starts with 042)


----------



## Intrud3r

Nice little addition, sorry for all the pics ... 

4000% + and counting 

Still counting ... 5700+
At 6000% I'll screenshot it and call it a day ... start gaming and see where that leads me.


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> Nice little addition, sorry for all the pics ...
> 
> 4000% + and counting
> 
> Still counting ... 5700+
> At 6000% I'll screenshot it and call it a day ... start gaming and see where that leads me.


This is like me getting upset at getting 1 dropped roundoff error thread after 9 hours of testing of Prime95 15k small FFT FMA3... :/


----------



## Intrud3r

Oh my ... it actually passed 6000%.

Gonna run GSAT for 1 hour when I go to sleep ... I'll see what gives when I wake up. First let it cool down a bit and then I'll hit BF5 and see how that fares.


----------



## Falkentyne

Intrud3r said:


> Oh my ... it actually passed 6000%.
> 
> Gonna run GSAT for 1 hour when I go to sleep ... I'll see what gives when I wake up. First let it cool down a bit and then I'll hit BF5 and see how that fares.


Two questions.
What OSD plugin are you using for HWinfo64? I wants it.

Where is your RAM temperature in your HWinfo? I don't see it anywhere.


----------



## Intrud3r

Falkentyne said:


> Two questions.
> What OSD plugin are you using for HWinfo64? I wants it.
> 
> Where is your RAM temperature in your HWinfo? I don't see it anywhere.


Where can I put a 46 MB file for you ? 
Btw ... it's rainmeter, showing HWiNFO values.

My ram temperature is not available to me as my memory modules don't have temperature sensors it seems.


----------



## BLUuuE

mouacyk said:


> What is the base kit? Please upload images here -- can't see your images on imgur.


The kit is TF6D416G4000HC18EDC01.


----------



## daniel audanie

I've been using Ryzen DRAM calculator to test stability with their memtest mode. Pretty much everytime with my current test memory overclock, one thread fails 100-200% in and the rest go on to 4-5000% easily. Does this mean one of my memory sticks is unstable while the rest are stable?


----------



## ViTosS

My RAM while gaming gets heated way higher than stress testing, I supose is because the GPU moves a lot of hot air to them sitting close to the backplate and also the top fans exausting and sucking the hot air from the GPU passing through the RAM modules, I think I just don't have a crash in the game or BSOD because the stress the game puts on the RAM is way lower than any RAM stress test, because if I would have the RAM stress test the temperature I have in gaming, 100% sure it would crash or give me errors.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## daniel audanie

ViTosS said:


> My RAM while gaming gets heated way higher than stress testing, I supose is because the GPU moves a lot of hot air to them sitting close to the backplate and also the top fans exausting and sucking the hot air from the GPU passing through the RAM modules, I think I just don't have a crash in the game or BSOD because the stress the game puts on the RAM is way lower than any RAM stress test, because if I would have the RAM stress test the temperature I have in gaming, 100% sure it would crash or give me errors.


Sounds like you need some zip ties and a cheap 120mm fan! I had twist ties and zip ties holding a 120mm fan on some PSU wires and aimed at my ram. Worked perfectly.


----------



## Imprezzion

When I was on a local LAN event which got pretty hot indoors I did start to get some game crash to desktops without my RAM fan running lol.

My B-Die hates temps over 50c @ 1.50v and it was sitting at 53c and that crashes The Division 2 and BFV. Turned my fans up a bit, dropped to mid 40's and was fine after that.

On a side note, I still haven't managed to get 1T command rate to boot at anything over 3600Mhz on my board unfortunately... I wonder if it's maybe more board related or RAM related... I use a MSI Z390 Ace but only 2 DIMM's so topology shouldn't matter right?


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> When I was on a local LAN event which got pretty hot indoors I did start to get some game crash to desktops without my RAM fan running lol.
> 
> My B-Die hates temps over 50c @ 1.50v and it was sitting at 53c and that crashes The Division 2 and BFV. Turned my fans up a bit, dropped to mid 40's and was fine after that.
> 
> On a side note, I still haven't managed to get 1T command rate to boot at anything over 3600Mhz on my board unfortunately... I wonder if it's maybe more board related or RAM related... I use a MSI Z390 Ace but only 2 DIMM's so topology shouldn't matter right?


There are no real high benefits with 1t vs 2 t, if you can have way higher clock with 2t.

I'm running 4133 c16 1t on z390apex. Barly any difference with 2t. Running 1t just because


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> When I was on a local LAN event which got pretty hot indoors I did start to get some game crash to desktops without my RAM fan running lol.
> 
> My B-Die hates temps over 50c @ 1.50v and it was sitting at 53c and that crashes The Division 2 and BFV. Turned my fans up a bit, dropped to mid 40's and was fine after that.
> 
> On a side note, I still haven't managed to get 1T command rate to boot at anything over 3600Mhz on my board unfortunately... I wonder if it's maybe more board related or RAM related... I use a MSI Z390 Ace but only 2 DIMM's so topology shouldn't matter right?


I couldn't get over 3600 1T on the Gene XI until I enabled "trace centering". I also disabled "MCH full check" but I'm not sure that made as much difference.
Currently running 4000-16-16-16-34 1T but don't want to go too high on the sa and io. 1.25v set. Had it running 4133 1T but started up the curve of diminishing returns and needed more volts so dialed it back.
Maybe there is something like trace centering in the ace?


----------



## Chobbit

Hi guys,

My specs are in my signature but basically I've had a number of issues with the build and keep getting random freezes in windows or logging into windows, which I've reduced by manually setting CPU, RAM & voltages to stock defaults, however I still get them.

I've been told that the main issue with x299 platforms and freezing is the RAM compatibility and specifically with Corsair RAM versions using Hynix chips, which I've confirmed mine is (version 5.32 Hynix 8Gbit CJR).

I've manually set to: 

3000mhz 
1.35v
15/17/17/35 

as the corsair recommends as defaults but still get freezes  

I've spent a lot on 128gb of the Corsair Vengence 3000 RGB and won't be able to get them swapped for a different version just because that version isn't the best compatibility so is there anything I can do to stop the freezes?


----------



## munternet

Chobbit said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My specs are in my signature but basically I've had a number of issues with the build and keep getting random freezes in windows or logging into windows, which I've reduced by manually setting CPU, RAM & voltages to stock defaults, however I still get them.
> 
> I've been told that the main issue with x299 platforms and freezing is the RAM compatibility and specifically with Corsair RAM versions using Hynix chips, which I've confirmed mine is (version 5.32 Hynix 8Gbit CJR).
> 
> I've manually set to:
> 
> 3000mhz
> 1.35v
> 15/17/17/35
> 
> as the corsair recommends as defaults but still get freezes
> 
> I've spent a lot on 128gb of the Corsair Vengence 3000 RGB and won't be able to get them swapped for a different version just because that version isn't the best compatibility so is there anything I can do to stop the freezes?


Wow, sounds like a nice rig! Do you have a pic?
I would suggest borrowing a couple of sticks of ram to confirm your suspicions first if you can.
If it is the ram you could do a search for the motherboard here on OC.net or ask Asus if there is a new bios version with a fix or see what they suggest.
Maybe also start a thread in the "intel general" section with the motherboard in the title.
Best of luck


----------



## Nizzen

Chobbit said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My specs are in my signature but basically I've had a number of issues with the build and keep getting random freezes in windows or logging into windows, which I've reduced by manually setting CPU, RAM & voltages to stock defaults, however I still get them.
> 
> I've been told that the main issue with x299 platforms and freezing is the RAM compatibility and specifically with Corsair RAM versions using Hynix chips, which I've confirmed mine is (version 5.32 Hynix 8Gbit CJR).
> 
> I've manually set to:
> 
> 3000mhz
> 1.35v
> 15/17/17/35
> 
> as the corsair recommends as defaults but still get freezes
> 
> I've spent a lot on 128gb of the Corsair Vengence 3000 RGB and won't be able to get them swapped for a different version just because that version isn't the best compatibility so is there anything I can do to stop the freezes?


Is this one set of 128GB or 2 sets if 64?


----------



## Chobbit

munternet said:


> Wow, sounds like a nice rig! Do you have a pic?
> I would suggest borrowing a couple of sticks of ram to confirm your suspicions first if you can.
> If it is the ram you could do a search for the motherboard here on OC.net or ask Asus if there is a new bios version with a fix or see what they suggest.
> Maybe also start a thread in the "intel general" section with the motherboard in the title.
> Best of luck


Funny enough because I haven't been happy with it's stability yet since completing it about 2 weeks ago, I set the case lighting up how I'd want it once but then undid it all and reinstalled Windows a number times since trying out different driver install options to see if that would help with the freezes. So I've not setup the lighting again yet and took any pictures, if I could sort out these random freezes it will be a dream computer for me and it's already proved that when it's not freezing ha

I've not got any other DDR4 about so I may need to buy some but It's also impossible to remove 4 of the 8 sticks due to the boards heatsink and the CPU block layouts so I may have to drain the system to get these out and refill it


----------



## Chobbit

Nizzen said:


> Is this one set of 128GB or 2 sets if 64?


It's 8 x 16gb sticks, 2x4 banks


----------



## qefir

Hello. 

I buyed GSkill Royal Silver. Chips Hynix. 

Setting in screen. And sreen TB. 

Config 
9700k
Apex XI 

4000cl18-22 
Mem 1.5v
SA 1.27
VCCIO 1.27 

But not stable. 


Full stable 3733 cl17-19 . 
Mem 1.45v
SA 1.2
VCCIO 1.2
What else can be changed in the timings? Sorry my eng so bad


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> I couldn't get over 3600 1T on the Gene XI until I enabled "trace centering". I also disabled "MCH full check" but I'm not sure that made as much difference.
> Currently running 4000-16-16-16-34 1T but don't want to go too high on the sa and io. 1.25v set. Had it running 4133 1T but started up the curve of diminishing returns and needed more volts so dialed it back.
> Maybe there is something like trace centering in the ace?


Very little information online about trace centering unfortunately. The Ace does not have an option with a similar description. It has a lot of options for memory tweaking but that isn't one haha.

I think I won't bother with 1T then if the difference is so small. It's perfectly stable on 2T 4200C16 so yeah..


----------



## JustinThyme

Chobbit said:


> It's 8 x 16gb sticks, 2x4 banks


I believe the question here was....
Is this a single kit of 8 sticks or 2 kits of 4? 

Regardless the Hynix has never been a top performer in anything. 
You want a good kit for X299 platform go corsair dominator platinum. 
Cant stress enough to go with a single kit over pieces parts of multiples.


----------



## Chobbit

JustinThyme said:


> I believe the question here was....
> Is this a single kit of 8 sticks or 2 kits of 4?
> 
> Regardless the Hynix has never been a top performer in anything.
> You want a good kit for X299 platform go corsair dominator platinum.
> Cant stress enough to go with a single kit over pieces parts of multiples.


Ah it was actually 4 kits of 2 (16gb) sticks (total 32gb in a pack).

I was under the impression the vengence RGB's were good sticks, bloomin wanted to be for the price :/


Cheers


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## ThrashZone

Chobbit said:


> Ah it was actually *4 kits* of 2 (16gb) sticks (total 32gb in a pack).
> 
> I was under the impression the vengence RGB's were good sticks, bloomin wanted to be for the price :/
> 
> 
> Cheers


Hi,
Ouch that's crazy


----------



## Chobbit

mraksoll said:


> Bad training , wrong 3nd timings ,i to hv problem at omega , try dissable at uefi turnorand time optimization . Then if all stable try
> reduce it be hand Rw's
> 
> but my memory is at chips Hynix AFR ( A-Die ) 16x8 2rank work stable only at 2400 17 17 17 39
> 
> but at other board was work normal at 15 17 17 36


Trying to get my head around this, I think I understand most of it but what was 'disable at uefi turnorand time optimization'




ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Ouch that's crazy


I'm also confused at this too, I bought my computer bit by bit over 6 months for the build and I didn't think I would get more than the first 32GB at first (but then kept adding some more when I could) I didn't realise this would cause an issue? it never used to in my previous few builds.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## Nizzen

Chobbit said:


> It's 8 x 16gb sticks, 2x4 banks


Old but it can be an issue with big amount of memory. 64GB+
Don’t combine memory kits!
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview

I have no problems with combine 2 kits of 2x8GB b-die for total 32GB. Never had more.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## vmanuelgm

mraksoll said:


> This no very mater if its one 100% are the same, but need replase dimms for slowest by training closer to CPU and fastest further , even at one 100% kit its can make differents at training and stable
> 
> 
> View attachment 311366
> 
> 
> but omega and encore hv some other issue and no who not figurate it , even at QVL kit's its no work stable after 2400 or what by jedec latest .
> 
> 
> I was try rune my memory at 3000 15 17 17 36 ( it was 100% stable at my old prime deluxe x299 )
> 
> It was even stable at omega 28! hours of prime 95 test memory and controler , but then after cold boot stable gone ( RTL iOL was the same ) somting was hapened and it start be fully unstable at prime 95 , test mem , memtest86 pro etc.



Prime95 is easier than GSAT or HCI. Start with GSAT under Linux 2 hours and then pass HCI under Windows at least 1000% coverage.

U have to use Manual OC and not XMP inbios. Then use the timings, voltages and other configs I sent to u at ROG Forum to give them a try, for 3200 100:133.


----------



## Chobbit

munternet said:


> Wow, sounds like a nice rig! Do you have a pic?
> I would suggest borrowing a couple of sticks of ram to confirm your suspicions first if you can.
> If it is the ram you could do a search for the motherboard here on OC.net or ask Asus if there is a new bios version with a fix or see what they suggest.
> Maybe also start a thread in the "intel general" section with the motherboard in the title.
> Best of luck


Well still having issues so haven't sorted it fully but thought I would try and take a pic


----------



## munternet

Chobbit said:


> Well still having issues so haven't sorted it fully but thought I would try and take a pic


Very nice!!
It will be an absolute beast once you get it sorted


----------



## Jpmboy

mraksoll said:


> This no very mater if its one 100% are the same, *but need replase dimms for slowest by training closer to CPU and fastest further* , even at one 100% kit its can make differents at training and stable
> but omega and encore hv some other issue and no who not figurate it , even at QVL kit's its no work stable after 2400 or what by jedec latest .
> I was try rune my memory at 3000 15 17 17 36 ( it was 100% stable at my old prime deluxe x299 )
> It was ven stable at omega 28! hours of prime 95 test memory and controler , but then after cold boot stable gone ( RTL iOL was the same ) somting was hapened and it start be fully unstable at prime 95 , test mem , memtest86 pro etc.


 Don't be surprised if that one memory channel RTL does not "align" by switching the dimms around - it's likely a better memory trace which leads to a faster round trip latency. My Apex VI has a fast channel... my Omega did not. On the Omega, the channels are more likely to align with a spacing of 2 with A and C being lower than B and D when all slots are populated. 


Chobbit said:


> Ah it was actually 4 kits of 2 (16gb) sticks (total 32gb in a pack).
> I was under the impression the vengence RGB's were good sticks, bloomin wanted to be for the price :/
> Cheers


well... be happy if mixing 4 kits can do anything faster than SPD... stable. Unless you ACTUALLY have a need for 128GB of ram, get a single Samsung B-die kit, or at most 2 kits of 4 single sided (8x8GB total). Mixing 4 kits of 2x16GB sticks is really asking for problems.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## Nizzen

Buy cheap, buy twice


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## Jpmboy

lol


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## JustinThyme

Chobbit said:


> Ah it was actually 4 kits of 2 (16gb) sticks (total 32gb in a pack).
> 
> I was under the impression the vengence RGB's were good sticks, bloomin wanted to be for the price :/
> 
> 
> Cheers



This is whats killing you. You will be lucky to get the Jdec standard of 2666 stable.
The sticks arent all that bad, much better to be had but not bad. Id rate them middle of the pack. The problem is violation of one of the golden rules of memory selection especially after speeds went up. Way back when it was not so risky so long as the sticks had the same properties. Now you can y multiple kits of the same part number and not have them work. Memory kits are first binned to like properties then those with like properties are binned as kits where they are mated and tested together then sold as such. Plenty of 8x16 kits out there but Ive not had good luck with being able to OC 16GB sticks. The most I would do is 64GB in 8x8GB kit which there are plenty out there that are specifically for your platform and on the MOBO QVL list. Im afraid you are going to have nothing but headaches with what you have. You may get lucky and be able to pare that back to 4 sticks and get it to work but still not all that hopeful.


----------



## Chobbit

Thanks for the multiple replies, so basically because they are 16GB sticks they aren't going to overclock well and because there's over 64GB total I'd be lucky to keep them stable even underclocked. 

So I need to remove all the RAM and start adding them back in one by one to see at what point stability is affected and step back but I'm again looking at only being able to use half the sticks (64gb)?

This sounds like overclocking steps just never thought I would be applying this to none overclocking and just installing RAM.

Such a shame as I got the ram to help with rendering I do and it looks so sick with all the slots filled and the lighting setup as I wanted 

Is there anyway to disable connected RAM sticks but keep the lighting going?


Cheers


----------



## munternet

Chobbit said:


> Thanks for the multiple replies, so basically because they are 16GB sticks they aren't going to overclock well and because there's over 64GB total I'd be lucky to keep them stable even underclocked.
> 
> So I need to remove all the RAM and start adding them back in one by one to see at what point stability is affected and step back but I'm again looking at only being able to use half the sticks (64gb)?
> 
> This sounds like overclocking steps just never thought I would be applying this to none overclocking and just installing RAM.
> 
> Such a shame as I got the ram to help with rendering I do and it looks so sick with all the slots filled and the lighting setup as I wanted
> 
> Is there anyway to disable connected RAM sticks but keep the lighting going?
> 
> 
> Cheers


There is a feature at the bottom of the dram timing section in the bios to disable dimms but I'm not sure what it does to the lights


----------



## Nizzen

Chobbit said:


> Thanks for the multiple replies, so basically because they are 16GB sticks they aren't going to overclock well and because there's over 64GB total I'd be lucky to keep them stable even underclocked.
> 
> So I need to remove all the RAM and start adding them back in one by one to see at what point stability is affected and step back but I'm again looking at only being able to use half the sticks (64gb)?
> 
> This sounds like overclocking steps just never thought I would be applying this to none overclocking and just installing RAM.
> 
> Such a shame as I got the ram to help with rendering I do and it looks so sick with all the slots filled and the lighting setup as I wanted
> 
> Is there anyway to disable connected RAM sticks but keep the lighting going?
> 
> 
> Cheers


What you should do is to buy one kit 128GB with matched memory.The key here is ONE kit, wich is matched to work tougether.


----------



## Chobbit

munternet said:


> There is a feature at the bottom of the dram timing section in the bios to disable dimms but I'm not sure what it does to the lights


Thanks, if that works it makes it easier than having to remove the mobo heat shield to remove the Right 4 dimms.



Nizzen said:


> What you should do is to buy one kit 128GB with matched memory.The key here is ONE kit, wich is matched to work tougether.


Glad it's that easy ._. lol already cost £700 for the RAM, the whole system cost me pretty much £10k over the 6+ month period building the system to be a long term computer I didn't need to touch for many years. £700 for a new set is going to take a long time now to justify to replace the ones I already have.


----------



## robalm

ROG STRIX Z390-F GAMING
Improve Memory overclocking rules
Improved compatibility with the Intel H10 Optane Module
Improve Memory overclocking rules
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z390-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_BIOS/

What rules, anyone know what they mean by that?


----------



## Jpmboy

robalm said:


> ROG STRIX Z390-F GAMING
> Improve Memory overclocking rules
> Improved compatibility with the Intel H10 Optane Module
> Improve Memory overclocking rules
> https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z390-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_BIOS/
> 
> What rules, anyone know what they mean by that?


the memory OC Rules govern any settings left on Auto (obviously) and work with XMP programming. Once you manually OC the ram, any dependent timings (some you see in bios, others you do not have access to) are controlled by the Auto rules. What specific rules are "improved" only your bios doctor knows for sure.


----------



## BradleyW

I've been having a real hard time with GSAT lately.

I'll spend hours tweaking, finally get GSAT to run for 3-4 hours, then it'll fail on the same settings almost instantly if I run the test again. 

How can previously stable voltages/settings become unstable?


----------



## munternet

The updated BIOS from 1302 to 1401 on the Asus XI Gene seems to have improved the memory overclock a little.
4200MHz 1T wasn't really a go for me, with reasonable io and sa, but I just passed a few runs of memtest86 test 6 and an hour of GSAT no problem.
Haven't given it the week of BFV test yet but it looks promising


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> I've been having a real hard time with GSAT lately.
> 
> I'll spend hours tweaking, finally get GSAT to run for 3-4 hours, then it'll fail on the same settings almost instantly if I run the test again.
> 
> How can previously stable voltages/settings become unstable?


assuming you are not comminting more than 90-95% of the installed ram to GSAT under windows, then the fail can be training related (were the RTLs and IOLs the same for both runs?) or the temperature difference. 4-5h of GSAT? so you enter 14,400 seconds in the command line?


----------



## vampirek25

Dear all,

I'm trying to oc my ram @ 4000 cl17-17-17-39 Vccio 1.20 vccsa 1.20 I'm running a system with i9 9900k @ def and an asus hero X
This is my timing and sub timing. I passed few hours of memtest @ 1.392v dram but i want to try to lower it for daily use. Which parameter can i change?

Thanks for your time

Vampirek25

sorry for multipost


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> assuming you are not comminting more than 90-95% of the installed ram to GSAT under windows, then the fail can be training related (were the RTLs and IOLs the same for both runs?) or the temperature difference. 4-5h of GSAT? so you enter 14,400 seconds in the command line?


Thank you for the reply.

I am committing 95% of the RAM. RTL's and IOL's are the same with each run. Temperatures are also the same. Everything is closely monitored. For 4 hours of GSAT, I'll use the following command line:

stressapptest -W -M 13800 -s 14400 --pause_delay 14500


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> I am committing 95% of the RAM. RTL's and IOL's are the same with each run. Temperatures are also the same. Everything is closely monitored. For 4 hours of GSAT, I'll use the following command line:
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 13800 -s 14400 --pause_delay 14500


yeah, that's the correct command alright. 13800 can be a bit much over that duration if you are running this in the windows linux subsystem on a 16GB install. I'd use 12288 just to ensure windows has enough for any processes that may start (and stop in that time, like an update fetch request or AV software scan) and avoid hitting the page file. Other than that... if it is stable (always) after 2 hours AND passes RamTest or HCi, I'd say you're good to go (even holding the nuc codes).


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> I am committing 95% of the RAM. RTL's and IOL's are the same with each run. Temperatures are also the same. Everything is closely monitored. For 4 hours of GSAT, I'll use the following command line:
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 13800 -s 14400 --pause_delay 14500
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, that's the correct command alright. 13800 can be a bit much over that duration if you are running this in the windows linux subsystem on a 16GB install. I'd use 12288 just to ensure windows has enough for any processes that may start (and stop in that time, like an update fetch request or AV software scan) and avoid hitting the page file. Other than that... if it is stable (always) after 2 hours AND passes RamTest or HCi, I'd say you're good to go (even holding the nuc codes). /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the advice. 

Unfortunately my RAM isn't stable at the rated 4000MHz. XMP is unstable at any speed. Very strange. It'll boot just fine, but fails tests quickly. I've spent months on end fine tuning VCCIO/SA/VDIMM voltages and sub timings without success.

The highest speed I'm stable with is 3866MHz XMP off.

This is strange too, but VCCIO/SA are unstable if they go above 1.2v. Very sensitive.

I know I'm sort of asking how long is a piece of string, but what are your thoughts on this?

Thank you.


----------



## Chobbit

On a ASUS ROG STRIX Intel Z390-E, any recommendations on:

16GB (2x8GB) Corsair Dominator RGB DDR4 3200MHz
vs
32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3600MHz 

These are both single packs (this time), I don't think anyone can deny the Vengence RGB design looks better in a case but is the Dominator memory just much better that it's worth ignoring this even when it's half the RAM & down by 400MHz stock? 

Also what's the overclock potential on these?

Cheers


----------



## ThrashZone

Chobbit said:


> On a ASUS ROG STRIX Intel Z390-E, any recommendations on:
> 
> 16GB (2x8GB) Corsair Dominator RGB DDR4 3200MHz
> vs
> 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3600MHz
> 
> These are both single packs (this time), I don't think anyone can deny the Vengence RGB design looks better in a case but is the Dominator memory just much better that it's worth ignoring this even when it's half the RAM & down by 400MHz stock?
> 
> Also what's the overclock potential on these?
> 
> Cheers


Hi,
3200C14
3600C16
Either one budget is your only issue.


----------



## Chobbit

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 3200C14
> 3600C16
> Either one budget is your only issue.


Thanks Thrash, Hmm I'm trying to get all parts from a local business which allows the friend the build is for to take them back easily if there are any issues and these are the options I've got:

I'm guessing these aren't what you listed as the timings seem different:

Vengence 3600 C18 - https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Com...DDR4+Quad+Channel+Memory+Kit+?productId=69776


Dominator 3200 C16 - https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Com...+DDR4+Dual+Channel+Memory+Kit?productId=70704

No good?


----------



## JustinThyme

Chobbit said:


> On a ASUS ROG STRIX Intel Z390-E, any recommendations on:
> 
> 16GB (2x8GB) Corsair Dominator RGB DDR4 3200MHz
> vs
> 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3600MHz
> 
> These are both single packs (this time), I don't think anyone can deny the Vengence RGB design looks better in a case but is the Dominator memory just much better that it's worth ignoring this even when it's half the RAM & down by 400MHz stock?
> 
> Also what's the overclock potential on these?
> 
> Cheers


Dominator seems to play a lot nicer and OC much better.....at least thats been my experience. I tried several kits (all one kit too) of vengeance in my R6E and some would not run at all and others would not go past 2666 even when done manual, forget XMP.

I ran the 8x8 Dominator platinum 3800 C19 kit for a year at 3800 C17 and now running the 8x8 Dominator Plaintunum RGB 3600 C18 kit at 3800 C16 rock stable. Could probably push it harder. 


Both kits of the Dominator are Samsung ICs where the vengeance kits were all freakin POS Hynix. The NewEgg premier account paid off as I returned several kits for no charge and no questions. They get picky as hell these days as do a lot of places. If its not DOA they wont take it back.

If I was in your shoes Id DEFINITELY go with the Dominator!! Get the 3600 C16 though


----------



## ThrashZone

Chobbit said:


> Thanks Thrash, Hmm I'm trying to get all parts from a local business which allows the friend the build is for to take them back easily if there are any issues and these are the options I've got:
> 
> I'm guessing these aren't what you listed as the timings seem different:
> 
> Vengence 3600 C18 - https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Com...DDR4+Quad+Channel+Memory+Kit+?productId=69776
> 
> 
> Dominator 3200 C16 - https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Com...+DDR4+Dual+Channel+Memory+Kit?productId=70704
> 
> No good?


Hi,
Neither 

https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/


----------



## JustinThyme

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Neither
> 
> https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/



OK Reference but not complete Id say that probably whats listed is B Die but I guarantee you there are kits not on that list that are B die. Neither of my Dominator Platinum kits are on the list yet Thaiphoon Burner says otherwise.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
3600 frequency might be different case than 3200.
Corsair switches way too much.


----------



## Imprezzion

JustinThyme said:


> OK Reference but not complete Id say that probably whats listed is B Die but I guarantee you there are kits not on that list that are B die. Neither of my Dominator Platinum kits are on the list yet Thaiphoon Burner says otherwise.


My own kit is a Vengeance RGB 3600C18 kit and they have about a 20% chance if being B-Die which is why they aren't in the list. That list only has 100% guaranteed B-Die kits on it. It took me a long time to find a B-Die kit with 3600C18 lol. Bought this secondhand for next to nothing as the seller had a pic of the DIMM's with the version number visible and that corresponded to the B-Die version number so jumped right on it.


----------



## tistou77

The Samsung B-die being at "end of life", it would be replaced by the A-die
I suppose that there is not yet a "test" on this famous A-die ?

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-b-die-memory-kill-eol,39255.html


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
As far as I noticed dominator line is only a so called better heat spreader.


----------



## 8051

Chobbit said:


> Well still having issues so haven't sorted it fully but thought I would try and take a pic


Do you rent out space in that case?


----------



## JustinThyme

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> As far as I noticed dominator line is only a so called better heat spreader.



As far as Ive noticed every single one Ive ever had is Samsung B die. My luck isnt that good! LOL Sitting on 24 sticks ATM (2 8x8 kits and 2 4x8 kits) , all B die and not a single one of them are on that list. 
Also every one of them clocks well.

There are millions of reviews out there and none of them talk about the heat spreader. Corsair Dominator Platinum set the bar that all others try to achieve. Some do, Most do not. Trident Z is the only other Id run, have one kit of that which is also B die and guess what, its not on that list either. Dominator is their flagship for more than just the heat spreader, starting with top of the heap bins on the ICs. 

I tried to kits of vengeance and didnt care for it. 2666, done. Would run XMP
The only other kits I back personally are the TOL Trident Z. Own one kit 3800 CL14 4x8 that the heat spreaders were the first thing to go and replaced with the EK spreaders that mimic....guess what?.......Dominator. 

Anyone is free to choose what they Like, I'm just sharing my own experiences. The only restriction I have is I dont waste the $$ on the EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE high speed kits that seldom run at the speeds they are stated to run at and the few times they do there is no noted performance improvement. Just saw an Ad earlier with HyperX and a world record of 5000Mhz then read deeper. They got one kit binned in the factory out of a stack of like a million and it took CL of 24 to do it. 

Back in the day there was little to choose from as enthusiast grade was just not a thing. The old days of the green Kingston sticks with no heat spreaders are all but gone. One of the more reputable members on the ROG forums did a nice write up about a year ago testing multiple kits and in the end anything past 3400-3600 is a waste of time and money as they offer little to no return. $$ is better spent elsewhere in your rig. I did try the trident Z 4000 and after a week of IV fed caffience trying to get it to run at 4000 and the CL 17 it was stamped at I was not successful and sent it back. Gotta love NewEgg Premier.

If you can get your numbers to 4.5 milliseconds and under you are doing good regardless of who makes what.


----------



## BradleyW

I found some stable settings with my RAM.

3866MHz (18-19-19-39-2T) - VCCIO 1.17 - VCCSA 1.15 (Both 1.16v in Windows) - vDIMM 1.38v (1.392v in Windows) - tREFI 65000.

Tested GSAT 3 hours stable. 

I left the PC for an hour. Ran the test again. Failed GSAT in 400 secs. Rebooted, ran GSAT for 2 hours and passed.

Has anyone experienced this before? 

Can an unstable Uncore/Ring speed (CPU) cause GSAT to fail?

What should the RAM training voltage be set to?

Any other voltages I should be concerned about / adjusting?

Thank you.


----------



## munternet

I just thought I would post a before and after adjusting IOL offsets, IOLs and fixing RTLs manually.
I found the instructions earlier in this thread. May have been a Raj re-post...

First I moved the offset from the auto of 21 to 22.
That changed the IOL from 7 to 6 which I also fixed.
The RTLs like 60 and 61 so that's where I fixed them.

Prior to fixing the values training was fairly inconsistent.
I wasn't really sure what to expect but the memory read, write and copy have improved and it boots the same every time, so it seems like it's worth while doing. Managed to crack the 60,000 copy without hitting the voltages too hard 

Set voltages
Dram 1.4v
VCCIO 1.25v
VCCSA 1.25v


----------



## chibi

munternet said:


> I just thought I would post a before and after adjusting IOL offsets, IOLs and fixing RTLs manually.
> I found the instructions earlier in this thread. May have been a Raj re-post...
> 
> First I moved the offset from the auto of 21 to 22.
> That changed the IOL from 7 to 6 which I also fixed.
> The RTLs like 60 and 61 so that's where I fixed them.
> 
> Prior to fixing the values training was fairly inconsistent.
> I wasn't really sure what to expect but the memory read, write and copy have improved and it boots the same every time, so it seems like it's worth while doing. Managed to crack the 60,000 copy without hitting the voltages too hard
> 
> Set voltages
> Dram 1.4v
> VCCIO 1.25v
> VCCSA 1.25v


That's where I ended up with my RTL offsets too, +22 on each channel. Have you tried adding a bit more ram voltage? I was able to stabilize C16 at 4200 1T and it got my latency to sub 34 ns. I feel breaking 33 should be doable if I tune my Core & Cache clocks higher than the standard 5.0/4.7 GHz. :thumb:

Alternatively, I can try the newer 1401 bios and see if I can get some more out of my ram.


----------



## robalm

munternet said:


> I just thought I would post a before and after adjusting IOL offsets, IOLs and fixing RTLs manually.
> I found the instructions earlier in this thread. May have been a Raj re-post...
> 
> First I moved the offset from the auto of 21 to 22.
> That changed the IOL from 7 to 6 which I also fixed.
> The RTLs like 60 and 61 so that's where I fixed them.
> 
> Prior to fixing the values training was fairly inconsistent.
> I wasn't really sure what to expect but the memory read, write and copy have improved and it boots the same every time, so it seems like it's worth while doing. Managed to crack the 60,000 copy without hitting the voltages too hard
> 
> Set voltages
> Dram 1.4v
> VCCIO 1.25v
> VCCSA 1.25v


How did the 1401 bios worked for you?
Any improvement?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Falkentyne

reachthesky said:


> Hey folks.
> 
> Looking to raise my minimum FPS and improve latency for 1080p gaming.
> 
> Lowering tRFC results in lower FPS. Trying to manually set rtls/iol offsets doesn't work, the motherboard prefers to handle it. CL/trcd/trp are as low as they can go before performance drops off. Not sure what to tweak here. Twrrd timings are as low as they will go.
> 
> Just as a heads up, this will be my daily driver so not looking to go super crazy. I'm already at the 1.5v vdimm recommended limit and 1.3v sa/io(b-die kit).
> 
> I just feel like i'm probably either overlooking something or too aggressive on a timing that favors bandwidth that could be limiting another timing from being tightened further that might favor latency. Not entirely sure. 38.6 ns latency just feels a little on a higher end for cl15/4000. Am I in the right ball park?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw, GPU is already overclocked as far as it will go, +99core, +844memory.


Your source screenshot is too small. Can't zoom it in 
It says it's 960x540.


----------



## munternet

robalm said:


> How did the 1401 bios worked for you?
> Any improvement?


The 1401 BIOS made an improvement for me. I couldn't stabilize at 4200-17-17-17-36-1T before but now I can 
CPU overclock remains the same as before although I haven't tried raising it since updating.


----------



## robalm

munternet said:


> The 1401 BIOS made an improvement for me. I couldn't stabilize at 4200-17-17-17-36-1T before but now I can
> CPU overclock remains the same as before although I haven't tried raising it since updating.


Thanks, i might try it myself.


----------



## NIK1

I am still messing around with some ddr3 G Skill TridentX F3-2400C9-4GTXD stock timings 9 11 11 31 oc'd to 2600 10 12 12 32 and I have it stable but to get my read and copy speeds up I have to lower TRDRD from 5 to 4.With this setting lowered to 4 windows boots up fine but when running RamTest it fails quickly at about the 20 sec mark with a error.Is there a voltage I should play with to try to get this stable or is do you think its a no go trying to stabilize TRDRD at 4.


----------



## sword fan

Hello, I was wondering if anyone might be able to guide me on this: in the bios of my z370-e there are fields set on auto for tWTR, tWTR_S & tWTR_L...in the asrock timing configurator I only see values for tWTR_S & tWTR_L. Does anyone know where I might find the vaule beings set for tWTR so I may set all of my timings manually?


----------



## BradleyW

What are safe 24/7 voltages for VCCIO/VCCSA on a Z390/9900K system?

When tweaking VCCIO/SA voltages, which out of the two is typically needed to be increased to support high speed RAM?

Thank you.


----------



## chibi

BradleyW said:


> What are safe 24/7 voltages for VCCIO/VCCSA on a Z390/9900K system?
> 
> When tweaking VCCIO/SA voltages, which out of the two is typically needed to be increased to support high speed RAM?
> 
> Thank you.



From the ASUS Edge Up Kaby Lake guide, you can expect the following:
DDR4-2133 ~ DDR4-2800 - IO 1.05V ~ 1.15V - SA 1.05V ~ 1.15V
DDR4-2800 ~ DDR4-3600 - IO 1.10V ~ 1.25V - SA 1.10V ~ 1.30V
DDR4-3600 ~ DDR4-4266 - IO 1.15V ~ 1.30V - SA 1.20V ~ 1.35V

https://edgeup.asus.com/2017/kaby-lake-overclocking-guide/3/

Personally, I limit IO and SA up to 1.25V as my 24/7 daily voltage. I believe the SA voltage helps stabilize higher memory frequency than IO voltage. Both rails are sensitive to change where brute forcing higher voltages can push you over the edge of stability and error out.


----------



## BradleyW

chibi said:


> From the ASUS Edge Up Kaby Lake guide, you can expect the following:
> DDR4-2133 ~ DDR4-2800 - IO 1.05V ~ 1.15V - SA 1.05V ~ 1.15V
> DDR4-2800 ~ DDR4-3600 - IO 1.10V ~ 1.25V - SA 1.10V ~ 1.30V
> DDR4-3600 ~ DDR4-4266 - IO 1.15V ~ 1.30V - SA 1.20V ~ 1.35V
> 
> https://edgeup.asus.com/2017/kaby-lake-overclocking-guide/3/
> 
> Personally, I limit IO and SA up to 1.25V as my 24/7 daily voltage. I believe the SA voltage helps stabilize higher memory frequency than IO voltage. Both rails are sensitive to change where brute forcing higher voltages can push you over the edge of stability and error out.


Thank you.

I agree, they are very sensitive. Too little or too much voltage on either and it'll cause an error.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Thank you very much for the advice.
> Unfortunately my RAM isn't stable at the rated 4000MHz. XMP is unstable at any speed. Very strange. It'll boot just fine, but fails tests quickly. I've spent months on end fine tuning VCCIO/SA/VDIMM voltages and sub timings without success.
> The highest speed I'm stable with is 3866MHz XMP off.
> *This is strange too, but VCCIO/SA are unstable if they go above 1.2v. Very sensitive.*
> I know I'm sort of asking how long is a piece of string, but what are your thoughts on this?
> Thank you.


Actually, it is not strange. VCCSA can have an "inverted-U" efficiency curve... eg, aftter a certain value more is not better and can be detrimental since you are (essentially) tuning an alignment of signals and with any overclock, the available margins for this alignment will vary.


Chobbit said:


> On a ASUS ROG STRIX Intel Z390-E, any recommendations on:
> 
> 16GB (2x8GB) Corsair Dominator RGB DDR4 3200MHz
> vs
> 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3600MHz
> 
> These are both single packs (this time), I don't think anyone can deny the Vengence RGB design looks better in a case but is the Dominator memory just much better that it's worth ignoring this even when it's half the RAM & down by 400MHz stock?
> 
> Also what's the overclock potential on these?
> 
> Cheers


 Neither, the "certified" timings on those kits are low bin. You may get lucky and get a kit with a lot of OC head room... but you may not. 
Get either samsung B (20nm) or samsung D die (17nm) ICs and you will reduce any luck involved.



BradleyW said:


> I found some stable settings with my RAM.
> 
> 3866MHz (18-19-19-39-2T) - VCCIO 1.17 - VCCSA 1.15 (Both 1.16v in Windows) - vDIMM 1.38v (1.392v in Windows) - tREFI 65000.
> Tested GSAT 3 hours stable.
> I left the PC for an hour. Ran the test again. Failed GSAT in 400 secs. Rebooted, ran GSAT for 2 hours and passed.
> Has anyone experienced this before?
> *Can an unstable Uncore/Ring speed (CPU) cause GSAT to fail?*
> *What should the RAM training voltage be set to?*
> Any other voltages I should be concerned about / adjusting?
> Thank you.


 Absolutely, uncore/ring _will _cause GSAT to fail... GSAT just loads the IO (cache/ring) differently than HCi or ramtest. It's still in play, just not as "stressed". My understanding is that GSAT acts more like a batch than a stream over the IO. If your bios allows, even increasing the dram switching frequency can help.
Ram training is ideally the same as "Eventual". But you can run a training voltage 25mV higher than eventual, solving training issues without "warm-start or warm-boot" issues in my experience.
When GSAT fails the second run, what specific error is reported? Error on CPU or DIMM?


----------



## AndrejB

Any suggestions?



9900k + auros master + F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR


Tried lowering tRRD_L & tRRD_S along with tFAW but got lower heaven/superposition scores.


----------



## moorhen2

4200 1T 1.365v, IO 1.08750v, SA 1.15625v.


----------



## di3t

dante`afk said:


> i had(have) the same 3200 c14 sticks from gskill as you, ran them at 4500 c17 for a while, after some time that wouldnt work and I had to go down to 4400 for whatever reason.
> 
> If I had the knowledge/patience to test I'd tweak more, if if.
> 
> I bought a 4600 kit and was able to get them 24/7 stable with below settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can boot 4800 but nowhere stable so far, any hints what to tweak?


bro, tell me what BIOS settings you set. I have 1v1 iron, but the memt gives errors.


----------



## aDyerSituation

I have the kit below:
Model F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK
at 32gb 3800mhz 16-17-16-37-1T

I set my trfc to 400(was at 666 lol) and was hci stable overnight. This reduced my latency in aida from 66.6 to 55.1ns
How much further do you all I think I can go? I've seen as low as 270 but I doubt that was with 4 dimms. What other timings should I mess with to reduce latency?


----------



## The Pook

aDyerSituation said:


> I have the kit below:
> Model F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK
> at 32gb 3800mhz 16-17-16-37-1T
> 
> I set my trfc to 400(was at 666 lol) and was hci stable overnight. This reduced my latency in aida from 66.6 to 55.1ns
> How much further do you all I think I can go? I've seen as low as 270 but I doubt that was with 4 dimms. What other timings should I mess with to reduce latency?



I'm at 250 tRFC at 3633. Might could go lower but I stopped. 

If you run AIDA64 a couple dozen times and make _no_ changes your readings can vary significantly. I really doubt that going from 666 to 400 tRFC with no other changes dropped your latency 11ns.


----------



## aDyerSituation

Ran it 5 times. That was the average.


----------



## The Pook

cool?


----------



## MacTavishPapa6

What do you think guys?


----------



## robalm

Did flash 1401 bios for asus, but no better ram OC for me.

I have two questions.

Number one: I have seen alot of screenshots in Hwinfo64 and all of you have lower PCH core voltage then me.
I have even tested "optimized default" in UEFI but it's still 1.072 to 1.08v, do you guys set this manually?
Should i lower it?

Number two: My ram do not overclock well with stock cl 14/T1 with stock voltage.
Can't even get 3300mhz stable with stock voltage, 3333mhz BSOD with boot.
But if i add voltage it looks like it's get better, i tested from 1.35v to 1.36v and then i can boot with 3333mhz and if i add 1.37v i can boot 3400mhz.
But from what i remember, ram voltage will degrade the cpu memory controller? (just like io and sa voltage).


----------



## aDyerSituation

The Pook said:


> cool?



thank you


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for the advice.
> Unfortunately my RAM isn't stable at the rated 4000MHz. XMP is unstable at any speed. Very strange. It'll boot just fine, but fails tests quickly. I've spent months on end fine tuning VCCIO/SA/VDIMM voltages and sub timings without success.
> The highest speed I'm stable with is 3866MHz XMP off.
> *This is strange too, but VCCIO/SA are unstable if they go above 1.2v. Very sensitive.*
> I know I'm sort of asking how long is a piece of string, but what are your thoughts on this?
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it is not strange. VCCSA can have an "inverted-U" efficiency curve... eg, aftter a certain value more is not better and can be detrimental since you are (essentially) tuning an alignment of signals and with any overclock, the available margins for this alignment will vary.
> 
> 
> Chobbit said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a ASUS ROG STRIX Intel Z390-E, any recommendations on:
> 
> 16GB (2x8GB) Corsair Dominator RGB DDR4 3200MHz
> vs
> 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3600MHz
> 
> These are both single packs (this time), I don't think anyone can deny the Vengence RGB design looks better in a case but is the Dominator memory just much better that it's worth ignoring this even when it's half the RAM & down by 400MHz stock?
> 
> Also what's the overclock potential on these?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither, the "certified" timings on those kits are low bin. You may get lucky and get a kit with a lot of OC head room... but you may not. /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> Get either samsung B (20nm) or samsung D die (17nm) ICs and you will reduce any luck involved.
> 
> 
> 
> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> I found some stable settings with my RAM.
> 
> 3866MHz (18-19-19-39-2T) - VCCIO 1.17 - VCCSA 1.15 (Both 1.16v in Windows) - vDIMM 1.38v (1.392v in Windows) - tREFI 65000.
> Tested GSAT 3 hours stable.
> I left the PC for an hour. Ran the test again. Failed GSAT in 400 secs. Rebooted, ran GSAT for 2 hours and passed.
> Has anyone experienced this before?
> *Can an unstable Uncore/Ring speed (CPU) cause GSAT to fail?*
> *What should the RAM training voltage be set to?*
> Any other voltages I should be concerned about / adjusting?
> Thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely, uncore/ring _will _cause GSAT to fail... GSAT just loads the IO (cache/ring) differently than HCi or ramtest. It's still in play, just not as "stressed". My understanding is that GSAT acts more like a batch than a stream over the IO. If your bios allows, even increasing the dram switching frequency can help.
> Ram training is ideally the same as "Eventual". But you can run a training voltage 25mV higher than eventual, solving training issues without "warm-start or warm-boot" issues in my experience.
> When GSAT fails the second run, what specific error is reported? Error on CPU or DIMM?
Click to expand...

Thank you for the information. I've had errors on both, so I'll put the CPU to stock while I continue to mess with the RAM.

Why is it can I fail with xmp on, but with it off, using the same speed, timings, voltages is it stable?

And:



Falkentyne said:


> Isn't tWR supposed to be tRTP * 2 ? Then *CL + tRCD + tRTP = TRAS?*
> @Jpmboy


Can someone verify this claim, because if it is true, every screenshot of people's timings on this thread are way out to a high degree. 

In my case (and many others on this thread):
(CL 18 + tRCD 19 + tRTP 12) != (TRAS 39). It is way over my specified TRAS 39!

Thank you.


----------



## munternet

robalm said:


> Did flash 1401 bios for asus, but no better ram OC for me.
> 
> I have two questions.
> 
> Number one: I have seen alot of screenshots in Hwinfo64 and all of you have lower PCH core voltage then me.
> I have even tested "optimized default" in UEFI but it's still 1.072 to 1.08v, do you guys set this manually?
> Should i lower it?
> 
> Number two: My ram do not overclock well with stock cl 14/T1 with stock voltage.
> Can't even get 3300mhz stable with stock voltage, 3333mhz BSOD with boot.
> But if i add voltage it looks like it's get better, i tested from 1.35v to 1.36v and then i can boot with 3333mhz and if i add 1.37v i can boot 3400mhz.
> But from what i remember, ram voltage will degrade the cpu memory controller? (just like io and sa voltage).


Have you thought of doing a rig builder so people can see what components you have?


----------



## Falkentyne

AndrejB said:


> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> 9900k + auros master + F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
> 
> 
> Tried lowering tRRD_L & tRRD_S along with tFAW but got lower heaven/superposition scores.


Set TRRD_S,L /TFAW to 4/16 as before.
Try lowering the two tWTR values to between 5 and 7.

tCWL should be 1 lower then CAS.
You may be able to lower the four TRDWR values to 15.

Try changing the six bottom right values to 7 7 7 5 8 8


----------



## BradleyW

Falkentyne said:


> Set TRRD_S,L /TFAW to 4/16 as before.
> Try lowering the two tWTR values to between 5 and 7.
> 
> *tCWL should be 1 lower then CAS.*
> You may be able to lower the four TRDWR values to 15.
> 
> Try changing the six bottom right values to 7 7 7 5 8 8


I've not heard of this before.


----------



## AndrejB

Falkentyne said:


> Set TRRD_S,L /TFAW to 4/16 as before.
> Try lowering the two tWTR values to between 5 and 7.
> 
> tCWL should be 1 lower then CAS.
> You may be able to lower the four TRDWR values to 15.
> 
> Try changing the six bottom right values to 7 7 7 5 8 8



Thank you for helping.
Something now seems amiss, also it trained a bit weird by completely skipping the bios after training and taking a bit longer. But it did decrease latency from 45ns to 44.


(I'm not even going to try heaven/superposition as those vary about a 100 points between runs for no discernible reason)


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## robalm

munternet said:


> Have you thought of doing a rig builder so people can see what components you have?


Asus z390 f gaming.
I7 9700k
And some crap Samsung b .. G.Skill Flare X Black DDR4 3200MHz 2x8GB (F4-3200C14D-16GFX)


----------



## moorhen2

Falkentyne said:


> Set TRRD_S,L /TFAW to 4/16 as before.
> Try lowering the two tWTR values to between 5 and 7.
> 
> tCWL should be 1 lower then CAS.
> You may be able to lower the four TRDWR values to 15.
> 
> Try changing the six bottom right values to 7 7 7 5 8 8


tCWL/tWL should be 0 - 3 below CL. according to the reference guide posted on here by sdch.


----------



## moorhen2

AndrejB said:


> Thank you for helping.
> Something now seems amiss, also it trained a bit weird by completely skipping the bios after training and taking a bit longer. But it did decrease latency from 45ns to 44.
> 
> 
> (I'm not even going to try heaven/superposition as those vary about a 100 points between runs for no discernible reason)


Your tWR is far too low for a start, you need to leave this on auto, as it is controlled by tWRPRE, until you get your desired number, then set manually, your tRFC is high, and you can bring your tREFI right up.


----------



## BradleyW

My RAM @ 3866 18-19-19-39, stock timings was GSAT 5 hour stable. VCCIO 1.16v VCCSA 1.16v vDIMM 1.35.

Ran GSAT again today, failed 2 hours in. No change in the timings, according to the Asrock timing Config. Temperatures on the DIMMs are no different from the previous run.

This PC is literally doing my head in. I fail to see why it goes from rock solid stable to a crumbling mess. I've spent a good part of a couple of months on this on and off, and I'm getting nowhere. The RAM is rated for 4000MHz, and XMP simply doesn't work (unstable at any speed, voltage) so I can't use that either. 

GSAT error was on the DIMM, no misconception found, retrying with fresh data.

Here are my "what I thought was known working" timings. See attachment.

CPU 5GHz HT Uncore x46 Vcore 1.33v LLC High, AI AC/DC 1, LLC High. Setting CPU to stock values and voltages does nothing for the memory stability.

Thank you.


----------



## moorhen2

Have you changed your cache at any time, try running stock for this, it could be your IMC needs more voltage for some reason, up the IO a notch at a time, or down a notch, see if it helps.

I don't think GSAT stresses the cache, i use Ramtest to find stability.

This is what i am running for 4200 1T


----------



## BradleyW

moorhen2 said:


> Have you changed your cache at any time, try running stock for this, it could be your IMC needs more voltage for some reason, up the IO a notch at a time, see if it helps.


I've tried setting the cache / ring / uncore to stock, but this doesn't help me unfortunately, so I assume the issue is elsewhere.

My IO is very sensitive. Anything above 1.18v can become unstable, but if adjusted along side the SA, it regains stability. I'll then test with a higher SA and lower IO, but this doesn't help either. It is all rather confusing.


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> I've tried setting the cache / ring / uncore to stock, but this doesn't help me unfortunately, so I assume the issue is elsewhere.
> 
> My IO is very sensitive. Anything above 1.18v can become unstable, but if adjusted along side the SA, it regains stability. I'll then test with a higher SA and lower IO, but this doesn't help either. It is all rather confusing.


Could just be you need a touch more ram voltage.


----------



## BradleyW

moorhen2 said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried setting the cache / ring / uncore to stock, but this doesn't help me unfortunately, so I assume the issue is elsewhere.
> 
> My IO is very sensitive. Anything above 1.18v can become unstable, but if adjusted along side the SA, it regains stability. I'll then test with a higher SA and lower IO, but this doesn't help either. It is all rather confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> Could just be you need a touch more ram voltage.
Click to expand...

I've tried up to 1.41v vdimm and it wasn't stable. I can't believe how low your IO and SA voltages are for such a high speed. Well done!

I think my memory controller is weak. 

Just out of interest, what voltage do you change if you suspect an unstable cache / ring / uncore?


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> I've tried up to 1.41v vdimm and it wasn't stable. I can't believe how low your IO and SA voltages are for such a high speed. Well done!
> 
> I think my memory controller is weak.
> 
> Just out of interest, what voltage do you change if you suspect an unstable cache / ring / uncore?


Vcore for cpu/cache, and IO.

Why is your tRFC so high at 700 ?


----------



## BradleyW

moorhen2 said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried up to 1.41v vdimm and it wasn't stable. I can't believe how low your IO and SA voltages are for such a high speed. Well done!
> 
> I think my memory controller is weak.
> 
> Just out of interest, what voltage do you change if you suspect an unstable cache / ring / uncore?
> 
> 
> 
> Vcore for cpu/cache, and IO.
> 
> Why is your tRFC so high at 700 ?
Click to expand...

700 is the default value for my RAM @ 4000MHz. Anything lower results in instability.


----------



## Emmanuel

Hey everyone, first post here. I'm reposting a post I just made in the Z390 Aorus thread as it's very memory specific.

I did some benchmark comparisons and I made some interesting findings. I attached a spreadsheet that compiles all the information, it shows what made a difference and diminishing returns. Dropping the tRFC made a big difference, doubling the tREFI made a nice difference. However, doubling the tREFI again made no distinguishable difference and greatly increases the chance of corruption.

Let me know if you see other timings that could be adjusted easily.


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> 700 is the default value for my RAM @ 4000MHz. Anything lower results in instability.


Should be able to do 350-360 on the tRFC without problems to be honest. I never use XMP, set timings manually.


----------



## BradleyW

moorhen2 said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 700 is the default value for my RAM @ 4000MHz. Anything lower results in instability.
> 
> 
> 
> Should be able to do 350-360 on the tRFC without problems to be honest. I never use XMP, set timings manually.
Click to expand...

Do you literally set near enough every timing? I tend to set the primary timings, and then I'll just change the odd one here and there such as trefi. At the moment I only have primary timings set. The system consistently sets the rest of them the same. My training voltage is on auto.


----------



## moorhen2

Emmanuel said:


> Hey everyone, first post here. I'm reposting a post I just made in the Z390 Aorus thread as it's very memory specific.
> 
> I did some benchmark comparisons and I made some interesting findings. I attached a spreadsheet that compiles all the information, it shows what made a difference and diminishing returns. Dropping the tRFC made a big difference, doubling the tREFI made a nice difference. However, doubling the tREFI again made no distinguishable difference and greatly increases the chance of corruption.
> 
> Let me know if you see other timings that could be adjusted easily.


Are you setting tWTR_L and tWTR_S yourself, or using tWRRD_sg and dg to set these numbers.?


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> Do you literally set near enough every timing? I tend to set the primary timings, and then I'll just change the odd one here and there such as trefi. At the moment I only have primary timings set. The system consistently sets rest of them for me the same. My training voltage is on auto.


I set the primary timings and secondaries myself, RTL's and IOL's should align themselves, if not it's training. Things like tWR are controlled by tWRPRE, and so on.

Boot voltage should be higher than eventual, which helps training, set it manually, what is your eventual voltage set at. ?


----------



## BradleyW

moorhen2 said:


> I set the primary timings and secondaries myself, RTL's and IOL's should align themselves, if not it's training. Things like tWR are controlled by tWRPRE, and so on.
> 
> Boot voltage should be higher than eventual, which helps training, set it manually, what is your eventual voltage set at. ?


I'm not sure. It is on Auto. I have only set vDIMM to 1.35v (1.368 - 1.38v in Windows).

Where do you get your secondary timings from in order to "set them" in the BIOS? I get them from the system, via Asrock Timing Software.

Thank you.


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> I'm not sure. It is on Auto. I have only set vDIMM to 1.35v (1.368 - 1.38v in Windows).
> 
> Where do you get your secondary timings from in order to "set them" in the BIOS? I get them from the system, via Asrock Timing Software.
> 
> Thank you.


Asrock is just reading what the bios is setting for these, try using my timings for 4000mhz, as a starting point, remember, things like tWR leave on auto for now, and adjust it with tWRPRE to get a stable number, tRRD_L set between 6 - 8 and tRRDL_S can be set between 4 - 6, tWTR_L and tWTR_S are controlled by tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg.


----------



## Falkentyne

BradleyW said:


> My RAM @ 3866 18-19-19-39, stock timings was GSAT 5 hour stable. VCCIO 1.16v VCCSA 1.16v vDIMM 1.35.
> 
> Ran GSAT again today, failed 2 hours in. No change in the timings, according to the Asrock timing Config. Temperatures on the DIMMs are no different from the previous run.
> 
> This PC is literally doing my head in. I fail to see why it goes from rock solid stable to a crumbling mess. I've spent a good part of a couple of months on this on and off, and I'm getting nowhere. The RAM is rated for 4000MHz, and XMP simply doesn't work (unstable at any speed, voltage) so I can't use that either.
> 
> GSAT error was on the DIMM, no misconception found, retrying with fresh data.
> 
> Here are my "what I thought was known working" timings. See attachment.
> 
> CPU 5GHz HT Uncore x46 Vcore 1.33v LLC High, AI AC/DC 1, LLC High. Setting CPU to stock values and voltages does nothing for the memory stability.
> 
> Thank you.


I still have you blocked for insulting and flaming me, but set both PWM switching frequencies to 300 khz and test again. If this fails this time, it's not the CPU core or cache causing it.
*Edit*, don't think the Ultra has the switching frequencies exposed to the BIOS.


----------



## Emmanuel

moorhen2 said:


> Are you setting tWTR_L and tWTR_S yourself, or using tWRRD_sg and dg to set these numbers.?


All of those are left automatic.


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Thank you for the information. I've had errors on both, so I'll put the CPU to stock while I continue to mess with the RAM.
> *Why is it can I fail with xmp on, but with it off, using the same speed, timings, voltages is it stable?*
> And:
> *Can someone verify this claim*, because if it is true, every screenshot of people's timings on this thread are way out to a high degree.
> In my case (and many others on this thread):
> (CL 18 + tRCD 19 + tRTP 12) != (TRAS 39). It is way over my specified TRAS 39!
> 
> Thank you.


1) because XMP will set parameters that your bios will not give you access to. Best to do a clrcmos after loading XMP programming if you then choose to go manual settings just to flush out any obscure or hidden parameters.
2) the timing rule holds. RAS window must be open for all of those three operations to complete (some Bios' _can _have an offset, so I always view the timing rule as +/- 2).
from Raja:
_tRAS is the minimum time the row should be active. The row needs to be active for the entire duration it takes to perform tRCD, CAS and tRTP. Any lower and the chipset has to apply the minimum value arbitrarily - there may be an additional penalty for the collision as well.
So while it may look nice in screenshots to set tRAS to some low value (below the min threshold) in reality it is not helping and may be worse than setting the correct minimum value instead on relying on the IMC to correct the timing issue._


----------



## chibi

BradleyW said:


> I'm not sure. It is on Auto. I have only set vDIMM to 1.35v (1.368 - 1.38v in Windows).
> 
> Where do you get your secondary timings from in order to "set them" in the BIOS? I get them from the system, via Asrock Timing Software.
> 
> Thank you.



I would clear cmos in your situation as setting xmp can funk with your bios behind the scenes. Boot up with your ram at default speeds and note every timing. Read the various guides posted, especially the fist post and use the timing guide as reference. Tweak and lower manually and go from there one step at a time.


----------



## Jpmboy

chibi said:


> *I would clear cmos in your situation as setting xmp can funk with your bios behind the scenes.* Boot up with your ram at default speeds and note every timing. Read the various guides posted, especially the fist post and use the timing guide as reference. Tweak and lower manually and go from there one step at a time.


^^ this !! :thumb:


----------



## BradleyW

chibi said:


> I would clear cmos in your situation as setting xmp can funk with your bios behind the scenes. Boot up with your ram at default speeds and note every timing. Read the various guides posted, especially the fist post and use the timing guide as reference. Tweak and lower manually and go from there one step at a time.


Might be best if I reset via shorting the reset pins on the MB, as getting to the battery is near impossible without removing a lot of hardware.



moorhen2 said:


> Asrock is just reading what the bios is setting for these, try using my timings for 4000mhz, as a starting point, remember, things like tWR leave on auto for now, and adjust it with tWRPRE to get a stable number, tRRD_L set between 6 - 8 and tRRDL_S can be set between 4 - 6, tWTR_L and tWTR_S are controlled by tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg.


Thank you.

I had a go with your timings and applied your advice, but unfortunately the system was highly unstable during testing.



Jpmboy said:


> 1) because XMP will set parameters that your bios will not give you access to. Best to do a clrcmos after loading XMP programming if you then choose to go manual settings just to flush out any obscure or hidden parameters.
> 2) the timing rule holds. RAS window must be open for all of those three operations to complete (some Bios' _can _have an offset, so I always view the timing rule as +/- 2).
> from Raja:
> _tRAS is the minimum time the row should be active. The row needs to be active for the entire duration it takes to perform tRCD, CAS and tRTP. Any lower and the chipset has to apply the minimum value arbitrarily - there may be an additional penalty for the collision as well.
> So while it may look nice in screenshots to set tRAS to some low value (below the min threshold) in reality it is not helping and may be worse than setting the correct minimum value instead on relying on the IMC to correct the timing issue._


Perhaps I need to increase my tRAS to 49? (tCL + tRCD + tRTP) = (18 + 19 + 12) = 49.

I'll also need to make sure that tWR is still equal to (rRTP x 2).


----------



## robalm

Anyone seen "10 layers"?
All screenshots i seen is 8 layer (ddr4)


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Might be best if I reset via shorting the reset pins on the MB, as getting to the battery is near impossible without removing a lot of hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I had a go with your timings and applied your advice, but unfortunately the system was highly unstable during testing.
> 
> 
> 
> *Perhaps I need to increase my tRAS to 49*? (tCL + tRCD + tRTP) = (18 + 19 + 12) = 49.
> 
> I'll also need to make sure that tWR is still equal to (rRTP x 2).


You'd have to seriously run a low tRAS before the IMC fails to correct it, but I'd certainly start with min setting (49) and if it can be lowered from there - cool! 

as for tWR, I my x299 32GB (4x8) runs tWR at 3x tRTP (4000c16), x99 has it at 10 and 4 (2.5X) for 3400c13, and z370 has it at 13 and 6. 2x is a minimum, not a starting point.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## BradleyW

Jpmboy said:


> You'd have to seriously run a low tRAS before the IMC fails to correct it, but I'd certainly start with min setting (49) and if it can be lowered from there - cool!
> 
> as for tWR, I my x299 32GB (4x8) runs tWR at 3x tRTP (4000c16), x99 has it at 10 and 4 (2.5X) for 3400c13, and z370 has it at 13 and 6. 2x is a minimum, not a starting point.


Thank you.

In the meantime, I'm happy to report for the first time, a stable 4000Mhz with the following settings (GSAT 5 Hours - No errors).


----------



## Jpmboy

BradleyW said:


> Thank you.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm happy to report for the first time, a stable 4000Mhz with the following settings (GSAT 5 Hours - No errors).


 NIce. Do a few cold boots and confirm the stability thru a few training cycles and "QED". 

Then, youy may now be able to lower tRFC from 700 as you are using a more frequent tREFI like the 15K you have in those settings. tRFC is the duration of the refresh, tREFI is the frequency of refreshes. Increasing tREFI can (does) help with efficiency until you pass a point where the signal (the actual data residing in a cell, a 1 or 0) decays and is no longer "valid". Too fast and you refresh before it is needed, too slow (long tREFI) and decay can cause error propagation, the other issue can be failur4e when using halt states like "Suspend to Ram". tRFC is the duration of the refresh(ing) signal. These work together, eg, lower REFI can usually allow for a shorter RFC.


----------



## Jpmboy

mraksoll said:


> Help me some who with this 3nd timings , i cannot find any formula for configurate them + some of them not controlable ( my mb is asus rampage omega x299 )
> 
> View attachment 312986
> 
> 
> + tWRDD is ignore any manual settings , its always 1
> 
> My configuration dual rank , 4 chanels


I'd really like to see at least 2 hours of GSAT being stable before trying to tune 128GB of 16GB sticks at that level. :blinksmil


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> *What is error propagation*? How do you know if error propagation is occurring? Is that something a memory test would reveal? Can I disable suspend to ram in bios or would I do that in this situation?
> If you could say on average, How much less trfc is someone potentially leaving on the table if they max out trefi instead of 32767?


 a cell bit decays to... whatever random value and this invalid value is "refreshed". If you are asking if the standard memory tests we use here would reveal tREFI related signal decay... unlikely. You are working the ram hard. Maybe a ram disk or "suspend to ram" since these relies upon data fidelity duration.
Suspend to ram = windows sleep, not windows Hibernate.
There is nothing left on the table until you look.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Emmanuel

reachthesky said:


> I don't use sleep mode, I was using a ramdisk awhile back for browser caching awhile back but not as of late. What about monitoring for corruption, is running command prompt sfc /scannow on a regular basis the only way to find out?
> 
> I just tried 32767 trefi and 280 trfc, aida64 benchies(10) were on average slightly worse than 65534/360 trfc when it came to copy/reads and latency was either equal to or worse. Maybe I was too aggressive in the lowering of trfc, will try 300, 320 and then 340.


Change one variable at a time to assess the impact on performance. Look at the table I posted a few posts earlier.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Emmanuel

reachthesky said:


> Ok so I tried 32767 trefi and 320 trfc this time. Just got my best superposition result to date with 5.3ghz ht off. Beat my old score by 80ish points using cl15/4000 instead of cl15/4133, definitely an improvement there.
> 
> https://benchmark.unigine.com/leaderboards/superposition/1.x/720p-low/single-gpu/page-1
> 
> Are the minimum and average fps values for the run what I should expect for cl15/4000?
> 
> Ok so less trefi is performing better in superposition for sure, aida64 seems decent. Copy fluctuates as low as 58.7k but that is still over 90% scaling. latency is no different.
> 
> After changing trfc to 320 and changing trefi to 32767, should I test it for another 12 hours?


Honestly I would. The only problem is that tREFI and tRFC due to their nature might require some creative testing approaches. When they get hammered constantly by tests, they might not actually reveal any refresh problems. I'll run Superposition tomorrow morning for you and let you know how much I score.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Emmanuel

reachthesky said:


> ok i'll test it again for another 12 hours. Is there any other timings that look improper or off? Were my minimum fps and average fps where they should be for cl15/4000? I don't have any other references to go by so it's hard for me to judge, I am less experienced than all of you guys.
> 
> EDIT: just saw your edit, ok sounds good.


I'm actually looking for the same feedback on my own. Most people, myself included don't know much about timings beyond the primary ones. I remember on old motherboards back in the days, you couldn't even tweak anything beyond a few primary latencies.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Chobbit

I know the dominators are pushed heavily over the vengence dimms but I just like there design and rgb control is there any issues with getting these?: CMW32GX4M4C3200C14
https://www.ebuyer.com/882172-corsa...-32gb-4-x-8gb-ddr4-3200mhz-cmw32gx4m4c3200c14

They are on the b-die list (see attached)


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Chobbit

reachthesky said:


> Those are INCREDIBLY OVERPRICED. £ 413.99 to usd= 539.88 USD. My g.skill trident z 4x8GB 17-17-17-37 @ 4000mhz kit was 474 USD. If you like the dominator kit, shop around, that seller is being greedy trying to get over 500 USD for a ram kit worth less than 300 USD.


I think it's because they know it's the only place I can find in the UK with this decent B-Die Vengence RAM, to be fair it looks like prices are higher here than the US. 

As even 32GB of G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200mhz C14 (which basically matches the mentioned Vengence DIMMS) is £490 https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-SKILL-F4...+z+neo+c14&qid=1576842801&s=computers&sr=1-17


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Chobbit

reachthesky said:


> O I get it, they are trying to control the supply to try to price gouge customers. If you have a friend in the USA, have them purchase a kit for you from a vendor who doesn't attempt to price gouge so you can save money. Have them send it to you as a gift(assuming it is your birthday or another holiday wink wink) and have them wrap it like a gift. It is perfectly legal to receive a gift and you won't have to pay any customs import fees.


Exactly I don't think this b-die list is just kept an eye on in the forums, unless people in this forum are sales reps working with them to push this list of gouge and there's actually no benefit to the DIMMS on the list.


----------



## ThrashZone

Chobbit said:


> I think it's because they know it's the only place I can find in the UK with this decent B-Die Vengence RAM, to be fair it looks like prices are higher here than the US.
> 
> As even 32GB of G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200mhz C14 (which basically matches the mentioned Vengence DIMMS) is £490 https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-SKILL-F4...+z+neo+c14&qid=1576842801&s=computers&sr=1-17


Hi,
Yep road trip but 3600C16 I got for the same price as this 3200C14 kit 270.us
I'm certainly not a paid rep for g-skill 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232348


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## moorhen2

4500mhz.


----------



## ThrashZone

mraksoll said:


> Please i **** with omega mb 4 week's i am almost creazy help me some who with this trash mb who was succes overclock it :/
> 
> :thinking::wth::headscrat:laugher::sad-smile:laugher::wth::drool::kookoo:


Hi,
You'll have to follow the op on page one to really get help around here 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread.html


----------



## JustinThyme

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You'll have to follow the op on page one to really get help around here
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...-intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread.html


Scone the bone doenst poke in here much these days if at all. He lives and breathes over on the ROG forums. @mraksoll
Are you sure its the MB and not the crappy draw in the silicon lottery? Exactly what hurdles are kicking you in the nutz?


----------



## munternet

mraksoll said:


> Please i **** with omega mb 4 week's i am almost creazy help me some who with this trash mb who was succes overclock it :/
> 
> :thinking::wth::headscrat:laugher::sad-smile:laugher::wth::drool::kookoo:


It might help if you do a rigbuilder and supply more info about your frequencies and voltages etc


----------



## Jpmboy

mraksoll said:


> Please i **** with omega mb 4 week's i am almost creazy help me some who with this trash mb who was succes overclock it :/
> 
> :thinking::wth::headscrat:laugher::sad-smile:laugher::wth::drool::kookoo:


did you switch off the MemOkay (physical switch on the motherboard)?


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> did you switch off the MemOkay (physical switch on the motherboard)?


Do I have to turn that off on my Gene XI or is it just that board?
I've not read anything about it...

Edit: Having an Ahhh moment. Just reading the manual it looks like the memory retrains on a failed boot.
This might explain some frustration I was having in the early days after getting the new board when the system would reset itself with ridiculous voltages after a failed boot.

Anyway, thanks for that. A friend has been having problems with it also. I will switch it off


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## robertr1

Mem tweaking on the Apex is so nice compared to the Aorus pro. 1.5v dram. 1.2v io/sa. 

Current stable:


----------



## munternet

robertr1 said:


> Mem tweaking on the Apex is so nice compared to the Aorus pro. 1.5v dram. 1.2v io/sa.
> 
> Current stable:


You can do better 
JK what are the sticks?


----------



## robertr1

munternet said:


> You can do better
> JK what are the sticks?


Team Group 8pack 18-19-19/4000 bdie

Well this actually worked so let's see if we can get it tight and stable 










Edit: no stable but fine for benching. I'm done tuning as my profile before exceeds my goals for daily.


----------



## Arctucas

Using TestMem5 v0.12.

Is it normal to get errors using XMP1 profile?


----------



## BradleyW

Arctucas said:


> Using TestMem5 v0.12.
> 
> Is it normal to get errors using XMP1 profile?


Many people, including myself, have reported having instability with XMP enabled.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yep just clear cmos and manually enter timings and dimm voltage and see what happens.


----------



## sword fan

Hi everyone, very new so please excuse any greenness. I have an 8700k on an Asus z370 strix e gaming mobo (cpu 4.9 core/4.7 cache @1.37 vcore, 1.25 vccsa, 1.25 vccio) and I'm running a 16gb kit (2 x 8 gb) of the G.Skill 3600 c15 (F4-3600C15D-16GTZ) @ 3800 15-15-15-38-CR2 1.475 vdimm. 

At any rate, I don't seem to be able to get my tRTP value lower than 12, no matter what I set in bios it doesn't change from 12. Is there another timing that controls tRTP? I'm trying to keep it at about 1/2 my tWR which is now at 24 but I'd like to try it at 20 or maybe less if stable. Thanks so much for any advice in advance and let me know if I can provide more info.


----------



## octiny

X299 Dark doesn't seem to like write speeds. Still, not bad so far. Needed a 2nd rig & picked up all the parts @ discounts around BF. 

Going to try & tighten timings further, currently @ TFAW-16, TRTP-6, TWR-12. TRFC-360, TREFI-32767, TCKE-6, TCWL-12. 1.45v (SA 1.12v, VCCIO 1.15v).


----------



## Falkentyne

robertr1 said:


> Mem tweaking on the Apex is so nice compared to the Aorus pro. 1.5v dram. 1.2v io/sa.
> 
> Current stable:


Hi
Why do you have TRRD_S and L at different values? Is TRRD_L at 4 bad?


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> Hi
> Why do you have TRRD_S and L at different values? Is TRRD_L at 4 bad?


In the guide in my sig Raja recommends those values the way I read it?


----------



## robertr1

Falkentyne said:


> Hi
> Why do you have TRRD_S and L at different values? Is TRRD_L at 4 bad?


For my sticks, it can create instability but the performance gain between 4/4 and 4/6 barely registers.


----------



## robalm

I use "ryzen dram calculator" for the must subtimmings and it's working fine.

By the way what "overclocking potential" do you boys get?


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> I use "ryzen dram calculator" for the must subtimmings and it's working fine.
> 
> By the way what "overclocking potential" do you boys get?


Depends on the chips. For B-Die my rule of thumb on Intel is 4000CL16 or 4200CL17. Most, if not all B-Die can run that in my experience. Even my lowly binned 3600C18's do 4200C16 albeit on quite a high voltage (1.50v DRAM)


----------



## Arctucas

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep just clear cmos and manually enter timings and dimm voltage and see what happens.


OK.

Anyone have G.Skill 4500 DIMMs they would be willing to share optimized timings?


----------



## Jpmboy

mraksoll said:


> Yes its off and all RSVD etc to off .
> 
> How i say all was good at prime deluxe x299
> 
> my config is 7980XE CPU
> ram AFR hynix ( Kingston Preadator )
> PSU seasonic gold 1200
> GPU x2 asus rog 1080ti
> ssd x2 850pro
> NVME samsung pro 1 tb
> NVME samsung evo 1 tb
> HDD x2 2 tb WD gold
> MB now omega .
> 
> what is problem when i run all at prime deluxe all test's TestMem5(i use extreme preset for testing ) and prime 95 is running with no errors.
> 
> when i all rune at deffault 2400 its work at omega but when i litile change freq its start be unstable , first i was think problem at training but i was find good training be swithing dimm's .
> Then i was think maybe its over heat so i add coolers to ram and put termal sensors for monitor temp.
> 
> I think problem is 3nd timings , omega put wrong maybe WR's timings
> 
> View attachment 313180
> 
> 
> They never change no mater what freq i put . And i cannot find any formulas how to calculate them or maybe i even at wrong way and need dissable some feature at this mb, so i need help for this timing set what use asus UEFI , i dont know how to comprate it with "classic" 3nd timing set ... sg _dd ....
> 
> and yes i try with QVL memory problem the same , so its no compatible problem.
> 
> all vatiants of voltage ram , sa , io i try to. At prime deluxe it work and complete all test even at 0.9 sa , 1 io , ram 1.31.


I really think you should leave these timings on Auto. I mean, it seems this is your first time realy trying to overclock ram, and you are jumping in to the rabbit hole with a large ram install on a very complex platform. First be sure you are using a version of ATC that can actually read those 3rd timings correctly. Verify with ASUS memTweakit. Then, remember, messing with 3rd timings on any group of setting s that is not reasonably stable (eg, 1 hour GSAT or something) wil only cause more "tangles" in dependent timings that you may never be able to deconvolute without a clrcmos.
So, clrcmos (do not touch the RVSD switches at all), memokay off, enter only the primary timings, voltages and command rate. Set mode 1, boot and test. Change 1 primary timing at a time... test. "Rinse and repeat". 




sword fan said:


> Hi everyone, very new so please excuse any greenness. I have an 8700k on an Asus z370 strix e gaming mobo (cpu 4.9 core/4.7 cache @1.37 vcore, 1.25 vccsa, 1.25 vccio) and I'm running a 16gb kit (2 x 8 gb) of the *G.Skill 3600 c15* (F4-3600C15D-16GTZ) @ 3800 15-15-15-38-CR2 1.475 vdimm.
> 
> At any rate, I don't seem to be able to get my tRTP value lower than 12, no matter what I set in bios it doesn't change from 12. Is there another timing that controls tRTP? I'm trying to keep it at about 1/2 my tWR which is now at 24 but I'd like to try it at 20 or maybe less if stable. Thanks so much for any advice in advance and let me know if I can provide more info.


a very good ram kit! Set RAS according to the formula posted earlier, RTP should be able to go as low as 6 or even 8 on that board... set FAW to 4x RRD_s, then try lowering RTP. Post up a snip of the complewte timing set. (asrock timing configurator)


----------



## Imprezzion

On 3800 C15 you can probably get away with tWR 16, tCWL 14, tWRPRE 32, tRTP 8. Try that one. Couple it with tRRD_s 4 and tRRD_l 6 and tFAW 16. Should be a nice starting point.


----------



## Arctucas

When running GSAT.

I have 'hardware incidents', but no 'errors'.

What are 'hardware incidents', and what does it mean?


----------



## Imprezzion

Check eventvwr or hwinfo64 for "WHEA" errors. Usually related to too high of a cache frequency or memory instability.


----------



## Arctucas

Imprezzion said:


> Check eventvwr or hwinfo64 for "WHEA" errors. Usually related to too high of a cache frequency or memory instability.


Were you replying to me?

If so, how would that work, since GSAT is a bootable Linux app?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

You are running high voltages across the board (no pun). 1.38VSA, 1.375 (same as...1.38V) VCCIO, 1.55+ Vdimm, 1.4+ Vcore (with it raising under load??). If you actually check performance, you'll likely find that a lower dram frequency with a lower CAS (eg, something like 4400 c16 or c17, will have a much lower latency and allow you to tighten up many other timings (tRFC, FAW, RTP etc). It's a dual channel rig... and all about latency. I'd tame those edgy voltages and tune the ram at a lower freq - define a solid timing set which has passed GSAT, HCi, Ramtest or whatever.
Check the first post on how to demonstrate memory stability, and it's not R15, AID64 or p95. :thumb:


----------



## Carillo

29,9NS! 9900K engineering sample ( QQBY) Suprised how good the IMC is.


----------



## Falkentyne

Carillo said:


> 29,9NS! 9900K engineering sample ( QQBY) Suprised how good the IMC is.


Great latency but those write and copy speeds?


----------



## Jpmboy

cpu clocks are driving the latency... but that looks like a very good cpu!


----------



## SuperMumrik

Good job m8! 😊


----------



## Imprezzion

Carillo said:


> 29,9NS! 9900K engineering sample ( QQBY) Suprised how good the IMC is.


Like Falken said, those write and copy speeds are way off lol. But nice sample even though ES chips are usually factory binned lol. Still, berry impressed with CL12 lol.

And for reachthesky, go for 4200CL16 or even 4400CL16/17 it will balanced out a lot better. 1.55v RAM should be fine, 1.38 IO/SA is a bit high. Preferably keep it under 1.35v.

Also, get the CPU cache frequency as high as possible. 4800Mhz cache on a 9900K boosted memory bandwidth and latency quite a lot compared to 4500Mhz


----------



## Apothysis

Carillo said:


> 29,9NS! 9900K engineering sample ( QQBY) Suprised how good the IMC is.





Falkentyne said:


> Great latency but those write and copy speeds?





Imprezzion said:


> Like Falken said, those write and copy speeds are way off lol.



It's due to tWRWR_dg training to 8 instead of the usual 4. Coincidentally, that's why his read speeds aren't off (tRDRD_dg being 4). Had my Apex do the same thing when posting 4600 MHz with all the subs on auto and suddenly getting 60% of theoretical max. Easy fix.


----------



## Carillo

SuperMumrik said:


> Good job m8! 😊


Thanks mate  



Jpmboy said:


> cpu clocks are driving the latency... but that looks like a very good cpu!


Yes they are, this was just for fun 



Apothysis said:


> It's due to tWRWR_dg training to 8 instead of the usual 4. Coincidentally, that's why his read speeds aren't off (tRDRD_dg being 4). Had my Apex do the same thing when posting 4600 MHz with all the subs on auto and suddenly getting 60% of theoretical max. Easy fix.


Like i said, i did this just for fun, aiming for lowest latency possible, but thanks for the tip! I will try it next session


----------



## Apothysis

Carillo said:


> Like i said, i did this just for fun, aiming for lowest latency possible, but thanks for the tip! I will try i next session


 I see HT was disabled now as well. Very tempting, might attempt to make a run on my 9900KS, could probably get it daily stable at 5.5 GHz without HT.


I assume the ram is at ~2v? What bin is it?


----------



## Carillo

Apothysis said:


> I see HT was disabled now as well. Very tempting, might attempt to make a run on my 9900KS, could probably get it daily stable at 5.5 GHz without HT.
> 
> 
> I assume the ram is at ~2v? What bin is it?


My HT is always disabled, since i mostly are gaming and HT is broken. Yes, i used 2.00 Vdimm. Its G.skill 3600 CL15. This Cpu is 24/7 5,3ghz @1,35V HT off


----------



## Hydroplane

Apothysis said:


> I see HT was disabled now as well. Very tempting, might attempt to make a run on my 9900KS, could probably get it daily stable at 5.5 GHz without HT.
> 
> 
> I assume the ram is at ~2v? What bin is it?


Will be curious what voltage yours needs for 5.5 stable. Mine takes 1.45v for 5.5 stable but that's on the chiller with 4c water. :thumb:


----------



## Carillo

Hydroplane said:


> Will be curious what voltage yours needs for 5.5 stable. Mine takes 1.45v for 5.5 stable but that's on the chiller with 4c water. :thumb:


Yeah, same here. 5,5ghz is stable at 1,45V with 4c, but without chiller, no way possible to keep the temp reasonable at those voltages. I feel there is a "wall" beyond 5,3ghz, everyting gets 2x hotter


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Imprezzion

I might be able to do 5.3Ghz HT off in my P0 early release chip with HT off but not on my current "AIO" EK Phoenix cooler under AVX loads..

I ran 5.2Ghz HT Off with AVX0 on this cooler and it went into the low 90's stressing but it is stable at about 1.31v.

I am now however running 5.1Ghz AVX0 HT On 1.25v which is stable as a rock but still hits high 80's in AVX stressing lol. Games and daily usage high 60's to low 70's which is fine to me.


But on a on-topic note, how high does B-Die scale with voltage and what would be reasonable 24/7 with a 120mm blowing on the DIMM's directly? I'm on 1.50v DRAM, 1.25v IO/SA for 4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T on a pretty poor bin 3600C18 Corsair Vengeance RGB kit and I'm bored. I want a bit more out of them like, 4500C16 or C17, but I'm a bit... Scared to push higher voltages. I did try 4400C16 once and on 1.55v with IO/SA 1.30 it was far from stable.. it boots and trains fine but memtests error in the first 30% and I am scared to push more than 1.55v 24/7..


----------



## swddeluxx

Jpmboy said:


> cpu clocks are driving the latency... but that looks like a very good cpu!


Cpu cache takt, Ram Speed and tight tCL Timing driving the latency.
Test same Ram Setting with - 4,6 / 4,8 / 5.0 and than with 5,1 Ghz Cpu *cache takt* and you can see Latency Difference


----------



## BradleyW

Hey everyone.

Can I have some advice on these timings? I'm looking to improve them please.

Please note, tREFI can't be adjusted higher than stock due to a BIOS bug.

I don't know if the RAM is B-Die or not. This is my kit:
https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/168/1536205535/F4-4000C18D-16GTZ-Specification

I would very much appreciate this much needed help.

Thank you.


----------



## l Nuke l

Imprezzion said:


> But on a on-topic note, how high does B-Die scale with voltage and what would be reasonable 24/7 with a 120mm blowing on the DIMM's directly? I'm on 1.50v DRAM, 1.25v IO/SA for 4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T on a pretty poor bin 3600C18 Corsair Vengeance RGB kit and I'm bored. I want a bit more out of them like, 4500C16 or C17, but I'm a bit... Scared to push higher voltages. I did try 4400C16 once and on 1.55v with IO/SA 1.30 it was far from stable.. it boots and trains fine but memtests error in the first 30% and I am scared to push more than 1.55v 24/7..


I have been running a b die kit for the last 2 years @ 1.5v and 1.3v SA/IO 4266mhz cl17-18-18-38-328-1T 24/7 OC with no issues. And I also bench with them often @ 2.0v and 1.35v SA/IO 4000mhz cl12-11-11-28-1T. So They can take a beating. No signs of degradation on the IMC or sticks.


----------



## Carillo

Apothysis said:


> It's due to tWRWR_dg training to 8 instead of the usual 4. Coincidentally, that's why his read speeds aren't off (tRDRD_dg being 4). Had my Apex do the same thing when posting 4600 MHz with all the subs on auto and suddenly getting 60% of theoretical max. Easy fix.


Just like you said, easy fix


----------



## BradleyW

The formula for tRC is as follows:
tRC = tRP + tRAS

The memory timing guide suggests using tRC = tRP + tRAS + 8 to regain stability.

Is there a performance penalty for this? If so, to what extent? Thank you.


----------



## Hydroplane

l Nuke l said:


> I have been running a b die kit for the last 2 years @ 1.5v and 1.3v SA/IO 4266mhz cl17-18-18-38-328-1T 24/7 OC with no issues. And I also bench with them often @ 2.0v and 1.35v SA/IO 4000mhz cl12-11-11-28-1T. So They can take a beating. No signs of degradation on the IMC or sticks.


my b-die oddly won't even boot at anything above 1.5v


----------



## moorhen2

BradleyW said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> Can I have some advice on these timings? I'm looking to improve them please.
> 
> Please note, tREFI can't be adjusted higher than stock due to a BIOS bug.
> 
> I don't know if the RAM is B-Die or not. This is my kit:
> https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/168/1536205535/F4-4000C18D-16GTZ-Specification
> 
> I would very much appreciate this much needed help.
> 
> Thank you.


That kit is B-Die.

tWR, tRFC, tRRD_L and S, tWTR_L and S, and tFAW can all be reduced.


----------



## ThrashZone

BradleyW said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> Can I have some advice on these timings? I'm looking to improve them please.
> 
> Please note, tREFI can't be adjusted higher than stock due to a BIOS bug.
> 
> I don't know if the RAM is B-Die or not. This is my kit:
> https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/168/1536205535/F4-4000C18D-16GTZ-Specification
> 
> I would very much appreciate this much needed help.
> 
> Thank you.


Hi,
Run this if you can read will show all about the memory

http://www.softnology.biz/files.html


----------



## BradleyW

Thank you guys.

Also, the formula for tRC is tRP + tRAS.

In a memory timing guide, it suggests using tRC = tRP + tRAS + 8 to help stability.

Is there a performance penalty for this? If so, to what extent? Thank you.


----------



## ThrashZone

BradleyW said:


> Thank you guys.
> 
> Also, the formula for tRC is tRP + tRAS.
> 
> In a memory timing guide, it suggests using tRC = tRP + tRAS + 8 to help stability.
> 
> Is there a performance penalty for this? If so, to what extent? Thank you.


Hi,
Maybe try these timings tad different same speed though b-die shouldn't matter
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=274584&d=1560573246


----------



## Imprezzion

4500CL17-19-19 has plenty of trouble training properly... Had to loosen up RTL/IO and secondaries quite a lot to get it to pass POST and boot Windows but I'm in windows now on 1.60v with 1.35v IO/SA.

Now let's see if it'll run a few loops of AIDA benches without a BSOD and if it does I'll run a 500% ish run of HCI on 12GB load. 

1.60v already sounds scary high to me but I'm bored and wanna know what these chips are really capable of. If they stay under 50c I'll even push higher on the voltage if I have to up to like, 1.65-1.7v maybe..

EDIT: Well that took all of 1.3% to error out lol. I tried 4500 with super loose primary like 19-22-22 and that also won't run. Neither will 4400 really.. I think either my memory chips or my memory controller is maxed out as 4200 does fine even on low timings but like infested many times before everything over that is super unstable regardless of timings of voltage so I'm hitting a frequency wall somewhere...


----------



## BradleyW

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Maybe try these timings tad different same speed though b-die shouldn't matter
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=274584&d=1560573246


I'll take a look, thanks.



Imprezzion said:


> 4500CL17-19-19 has plenty of trouble training properly... Had to loosen up RTL/IO and secondaries quite a lot to get it to pass POST and boot Windows but I'm in windows now on 1.60v with 1.35v IO/SA.
> 
> Now let's see if it'll run a few loops of AIDA benches without a BSOD and if it does I'll run a 500% ish run of HCI on 12GB load.
> 
> 1.60v already sounds scary high to me but I'm bored and wanna know what these chips are really capable of. If they stay under 50c I'll even push higher on the voltage if I have to up to like, 1.65-1.7v maybe..
> 
> EDIT: Well that took all of 1.3% to error out lol. I tried 4500 with super loose primary like 19-22-22 and that also won't run. Neither will 4400 really.. I think either my memory chips or my memory controller is maxed out as 4200 does fine even on low timings but like infested many times before everything over that is super unstable regardless of timings of voltage so I'm hitting a frequency wall somewhere...


Over 40c, you'll risk producing an error. 1.5v is the maximum limit, with a recommended maximum of 1.45v for 24/7 use. I'd find your highest stable speed and tightest timings for that speed, whilst keeping vDIMM at 1.45v or below, and stick with it. Pushing it beyond an already high speed might look good for a memory benchmark, but it won't translate to much in real world applications. You'll only give yourself a headache, data corruption and a risk of hardware degradation. 

However, if your main hobby is pushing limits and benchmarking, and you can afford to replace the RAM if you degrade it, then by all means push it as far as you can go and share your settings / timings / voltages for your different speeds to help others achieve high speeds and good timings.

You may need to not only loosen primary, but secondary timings too, when pushing for 4300MHz - 4500MHz. Make sure you have strong airflow across the RAM to keep temperatures as cool as possible during intensive testing. 

Last but not least, stay true to all the timings formula's. Many of them are linked in ways.


----------



## Imprezzion

BradleyW said:


> I'll take a look, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 40c, you'll risk producing an error. 1.5v is the maximum limit, with a recommended maximum of 1.45v for 24/7 use. I'd find your highest stable speed and tightest timings for that speed, whilst keeping vDIMM at 1.45v or below, and stick with it. Pushing it beyond an already high speed might look good for a memory benchmark, but it won't translate to much in real world applications. You'll only give yourself a headache, data corruption and a risk of hardware degradation.
> 
> However, if your main hobby is pushing limits and benchmarking, and you can afford to replace the RAM if you degrade it, then by all means push it as far as you can go and share your settings / timings / voltages for your different speeds to help others achieve high speeds and good timings.
> 
> You may need to not only loosen primary, but secondary timings too, when pushing for 4300MHz - 4500MHz. Make sure you have strong airflow across the RAM to keep temperatures as cool as possible during intensive testing.
> 
> Last but not least, stay true to all the timings formula's. Many of them are linked in ways.


Totally not concerned with degradation or whatever but there's a difference between possible degradation and just intentionally causing it to break. I ran a 2500K for 3 years on 1.52v with 5.3Ghz and that proved perfectly fine lol. 

Well, here's a short test on 4400 16-19-19-39-500 just to loosen everythng up except CL. Secondaries and tertiaries are not optimized very well especially tWR, tCWL and tFAW but this has proven to be pretty stable so far.
It made 200% coverage on HCI just fine with temps well under 40C.


----------



## BradleyW

Double post delete.


----------



## BradleyW

Imprezzion said:


> Totally not concerned with degradation or whatever but there's a difference between possible degradation and just intentionally causing it to break. I ran a 2500K for 3 years on 1.52v with 5.3Ghz and that proved perfectly fine lol.
> 
> Well, here's a short test on 4400 16-19-19-39-500 just to loosen everythng up except CL. Secondaries and tertiaries are not optimized very well especially tWR, tCWL and tFAW but this has proven to be pretty stable so far.
> It made 200% coverage on HCI just fine with temps well under 40C.


Have you tried GSAT? It is a highly intensive memory stability test used by Google for testing their servers I was told. I've found it'll pick up errors significantly quicker than other programs. If you need instructions on how to set it all up, I'll help you with it. 

You can run GSAT through Windows via the Ubuntu console.


----------



## Imprezzion

BradleyW said:


> Have you tried GSAT? It is a highly intensive memory stability test used by Google for testing their servers I was told. I've found it'll pick up errors significantly quicker than other programs. If you need instructions on how to set it all up, I'll help you with it.
> 
> You can run GSAT through Windows via the Ubuntu console.


Using HCI is an old habit hehe. I'll install Ubuntu 18.04 LTS on Windows 10 and run it there. I know my way around Linux but thanks for offering!

One question though, which timings relate to tWRWR? I noticed on Auto they run ar 12-12-12-13 but when i manually dropped some timings like tWR(PRE) and tCWL and manually entered my RTL/IO settings they came up to 15-15-15-16.. which timing usually controls those? They also won't POST on the lower settings manually anymore now lol.


----------



## l Nuke l

anyone got 4400 cl18 or lower 24/7 stable at 1T? If so can you post your asrock timing config.


----------



## Imprezzion

TWRWR fixed, I messed up on the formula for tWRPRE and set it too low causing tWR to go to 12 which is too low for 4400C16. I can manually set and boot 12-12-12-13 fine again now.

I did a short GSAT run on 4400-16-17-17 which clearly was too tight. That won't pass HCI either. 16-19-19 ran fine for 3 hours though.

I'll try the middle of the road after work (yes I have to work on Christmas day lol) with 16-18-18 and tightened secondaries.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## moorhen2

mraksoll said:


> So now i find why memory unstable after some reboots problem at Duty cycle Training so who know what it do ? And how manual make correct settings ?
> 
> View attachment 313862
> 
> 
> if it's make dissable system start be fully unstable.


Those settings are best left alone, unless you know what you are doing.


----------



## mraksoll

delete


----------



## xNAPx

I'm not very good in memory overclocking but I assume if you set MRC fast boot enabled you should skip memory training and boot, it's normally used to fix cold bug issues on extreme OC. Give it a try and let me know


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I gave up on 4400-16-19-19.. the RAM can just about run this with 1.60v but needs very loose secondary and tertiary timings otherwise it will error like mad. Performance is "fine" but other then 2GB/s more bandwidth the overall latency is actually quite a lot higher than my 4200-16-17-17 base with way way lower secondary and tertiary timings.

I'm trying some.stuff on 4266 but not much hope for me lol.


----------



## xNAPx

l Nuke l said:


> anyone got 4400 cl18 or lower 24/7 stable at 1T? If so can you post your asrock timing config.


Very interested in this, I've just received some Patriot Viper memory 4400Mhz for Christmas  and I really want to squeeze them, I'm on AS Rock as well, thing is that with memory overclocking I'm not very confident a part for the Dram voltage. Problem is I don't have any idea where to start from with all the other voltages and sub voltages and what the limits are for each. Starting from the base for example. My Patriot Viper XMP basic profile is 4400Mhz [email protected] Now I know that DRAM voltage can be safely pushed up to 1.5v and I will go for that, now about VCCIO/VCCSA what a good start is and how far can be pushed safely? 1.35v/1.30 ??? And for the rest even worse I don't know anything, and mobo facturers are very stingy in giving you these details they don't even tell you where to start


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Imprezzion

reachthesky said:


> Got any benchmarks? Curious what a 4400 at 16-19-19 looks like. Also, mind sharing some benchmarks of the tuned 4200mhz 16/17/17?


These are my 4200 CL16-17-17 results and AIDA bench results. Secondaries and tertiaries are in the stresstest screenshot. Only thing i changed since is running RTL/IO slightly different.

On 4400 CL16-19-19 it needs super loose secondaries and will do about 64.5 read 65.5 write 60.5 copy and 38.9 ns latency average over 4 runs so bandwidth is sliiiiightly higher but latency is "much worse" and since i need 1.62v to even remotely run CL16 on 4400 it isn't worth it for my chips.


----------



## warbucks

Thoughts on my timings? Any suggestions for further tightening?


----------



## Nizzen

warbucks said:


> Thoughts on my timings? Any suggestions for further tightening?


Run Aida 64 memory benchmark. Best way to see how good it is


----------



## asdkj1740

warbucks said:


> Thoughts on my timings? Any suggestions for further tightening?


what is this stress testing software??


----------



## robalm

How can you guys keep it at 40c when fireup the old gpu ingame?
I get 45c on the ram after 20 min game play (22c inside). And i olny run them with 1.35v.
Yes i have good airflow.


----------



## munternet

warbucks said:


> Thoughts on my timings? Any suggestions for further tightening?


Your ram seems a little warm. What are you voltages on sa and io and dram? What sticks?
The link in my sig is a fairly good guide for tightening and fixing timings and yeah, Aida64 is a reasonable way to tell if there are positive gains


----------



## BradleyW

warbucks said:


> Thoughts on my timings? Any suggestions for further tightening?


You need to ensure good airflow to your memory. Is it at least 17c too warm. Anything over 40c can produce an error.


----------



## Imprezzion

Those temps are very very high yeah. I don't even see 50c on 1.65v.. They stay around 38-39c on 1.54v here with good airflow.

But, only point of improvement would be either going up to the next frequency (4100/4200/4266) or lowering RTL/IO quite a bit as they are very very loose for just 4000c16.


----------



## warbucks

munternet said:


> Your ram seems a little warm. What are you voltages on sa and io and dram? What sticks?
> The link in my sig is a fairly good guide for tightening and fixing timings and yeah, Aida64 is a reasonable way to tell if there are positive gains


SA is 1.25v, IO is 1.23v. Ram is G.Skill Trident Royal Z 4266Mhz.

In Aida64, I'm seeing around 46ns latency.


----------



## warbucks

Imprezzion said:


> Those temps are very very high yeah. I don't even see 50c on 1.65v.. They stay around 38-39c on 1.54v here with good airflow.
> 
> But, only point of improvement would be either going up to the next frequency (4100/4200/4266) or lowering RTL/IO quite a bit as they are very very loose for just 4000c16.


I've got a fan coming tomorrow that I'll mount facing towards them.

How do you lower RTL/IO-L on the Aorus Master? If I remember correctly, we can't manually change those settings in the bios as they do not take affect?


----------



## ViTosS

Which are the fans good to use for memory sticks, I only have my 120mm on top exausting but I would like something directly pointed to the sticks


----------



## Timur Born

I don't like the tediousness of memory overclocking, but gave my TridentZ 3200-C14 another shot. Unfortunately I had to settle for 3500-C15-2T on an Aorus Master to be HCI Memtest stable over night. My PC is build for silence, which results in 55°C temperature readout during HCI at 1.4V. Too bad.


----------



## Imprezzion

warbucks said:


> I've got a fan coming tomorrow that I'll mount facing towards them.
> 
> How do you lower RTL/IO-L on the Aorus Master? If I remember correctly, we can't manually change those settings in the bios as they do not take affect?



Hmm I didn't know about that "bug" lol. I use a MSI Ace which is a pretty rare board as barely anyone uses it but it has a massive amount of RAM tweaking options. I can tweak RTL/IO-L to whatever I want lol. I now run 64/64/1/1 Initials with 24 offset. This results in 61-60-5-3 training which is by far the tightest I've seen my own kit train so far on 4200Mhz.

As for fans? I just pointed a 120mm Cooler Master MF120 RGB on it on a pretty low RPM. It's hanging down with Zip ties from my top rad lol.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Imprezzion

reachthesky said:


> Some how I have gotten this far, I really don't know how. I wonder if matching the cache frequency to ram frequency does anything on intel like it does on ryzen. I think i'm going to try to tune this since is hasn't spit out an error yet.


That's a high as heck tRFC though haha. Is this kit B-Die? It should do like, 300-400 on 4400 lol. Cache matching doesn't benefit Intel as much as just maxing cache to the highest possible frequency. For a 9xxx CPU, as you have a Z390 Master I assume it's a 9900K(S), 4.6Ghz is the "minimum" for optimal scaling, 4.7 or 4.8 would give a nice extra boost and 4.9 to 5Ghz cache would be amazing but 4.8+ is quite hard for most 9xxx CPU's.


----------



## warbucks

Imprezzion said:


> Hmm I didn't know about that "bug" lol. I use a MSI Ace which is a pretty rare board as barely anyone uses it but it has a massive amount of RAM tweaking options. I can tweak RTL/IO-L to whatever I want lol. I now run 64/64/1/1 Initials with 24 offset. This results in 61-60-5-3 training which is by far the tightest I've seen my own kit train so far on 4200Mhz.
> 
> As for fans? I just pointed a 120mm Cooler Master MF120 RGB on it on a pretty low RPM. It's hanging down with Zip ties from my top rad lol.


I've got the ROG Maximus XI APEX sitting next to me in a box. I may be swapping my board out today/tomorrow and give the Apex a whirl. Something new to play with at the very least.


----------



## warbucks

*Double post*. Deleted.


----------



## Jpmboy

Timur Born said:


> I don't like the tediousness of memory overclocking, but gave my TridentZ 3200-C14 another shot. Unfortunately I had to settle for 3500-C15-2T on an Aorus Master to be HCI Memtest stable over night. *My PC is build for silence*, which results in 55°C temperature readout during HCI at 1.4V. Too bad.


with that build spec.., then 3500c15 with no special cooling is v good! But remember, you can cool the sticks temporarly only for the duration of these heavy-hitting ram stability tests, and go silent after. Normal (even heavy) use will not reach the same temps on the sticks - ever.


warbucks said:


> I've got the ROG Maximus XI APEX sitting next to me in a box. I may be swapping my board out today/tomorrow and give the Apex a whirl. Something new to play with at the very least.


it's a great board - should be able to run those 3200c14 8GB sticks at 4400c17 or higher. (1.5+V Vdimm)


----------



## robalm

Imprezzion said:


> Those temps are very very high yeah. I don't even see 50c on 1.65v.. They stay around 38-39c on 1.54v here with good airflow.
> 
> But, only point of improvement would be either going up to the next frequency (4100/4200/4266) or lowering RTL/IO quite a bit as they are very very loose for just 4000c16.


Do you use any cooler on top of the memory?
Is your gpu water cooled?

If not, no way you get 38c ingame.


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> Do you use any cooler on top of the memory?
> Is your gpu water cooled?
> 
> If not, no way you get 38c ingame.


Oh i didn't mean in-game btw. 38c was with a 500% HCI memtest run.
In-game temps sit at around 46-48c. 

No cooler, just the stock heatspreaders that come with the Vengeance RGB RAM and my GPU is air-cooled. It runs at about 55-57c in games with a custom fan profile and a new paste application + plastic washer mod on the cooler for a bit more mounting pressure.
CPU is water cooled with rad as intake in the front. Case ambients sit at about 26-27c because I have one hell of a under pressure due to having only rad as front intake, top 3x 120mm outtake, rear 1x 140 outtake so it doesn't warm up inside the case at all.

The fan for my RAM is just there for airflow for the RAM and the CPU MOSFET'S as they get hot, like very hot. (80c+ in AVX stressing).

Mind you, this is with 16-17c ambients in my room. I like to keep it cold. I love cold.

I was at a LAN in the summer this year with 30+c ambients and was forced to turn all fans to full speed as my RAM quite easily hit 58+c in games and got unstable very quickly. I managed to keep them around 51c with all fans full blast and didn't have any crashes at that point after also lowering tREFI from 46800 to 23400 but it's quite an indication that my RAM is working on the bleeding edge of stability.


----------



## Timur Born

Jpmboy said:


> with that build spec.., then 3500c15 with no special cooling is v good! But remember, you can cool the sticks temporarly only for the duration of these heavy-hitting ram stability tests, and go silent after. Normal (even heavy) use will not reach the same temps on the sticks - ever.


They do reach low to mid 40s with bandwidth heavy (even bottlenecking) applications like Topaz Gigapixel AI, with the dimm closer to the CPU/VRMs getting slightly hotter than the other one.

My current stats are:

Up to 53 gb/s read, 53 gb/s write, 50 gb/s copy, down to 40 ns latency. That's not too shabby at 3500 MT. I successfully tested tRFC 280 (160 ns), but opted to dial back to 300 (170 ns), as these small differences don't mean much in practice compared to the big jump down from JEDEC values.


----------



## robertr1

These are 18-19-19/4000 bins so not the best bin. For 1T this is about what they max out at while keeping voltages in check. Goal here was daily stable, not benching stable.


----------



## ViTosS

If I switch the airflow direction from my two 120mm top fans instead of exausting but intake the fresh air from outside blowing through the RAM sticks and this way would force the hot air from GPU to go to the rear fan, I could speed the rear fan to 100% and he would be the only responsible for the GPU exausting air, would that work? I think I prefer the RAM sticks cooler than the GPU itself.


----------



## Timur Born

Timur Born said:


> They do reach low to mid 40s with bandwidth heavy (even bottlenecking) applications like Topaz Gigapixel AI, with the dimm closer to the CPU/VRMs getting slightly hotter than the other one.


Running a multiplayer campaign of Total War Warhammer 2 using a downclocked GPU (fans off) results in high 40s temps for the RAM, just hitting even 50°C. So it's good that I did stress tests under production conditions.

Turning up (on) the GPU fan decreases memory temps, so it's likely the GPU VRM radiating heat upwards to the dimms that is causing at least part of this.


----------



## ogider

Ogider--i78700K @4.8/4.6---3700Mhz-C14-14-14-34-1T----1.455v---SA 1.260v---Stressapptest----1 Hour G. Skill F4-3200C14D-32GTS

Real voltages are higher according to hwinfo


----------



## munternet

warbucks said:


> I've got the ROG Maximus XI APEX sitting next to me in a box. I may be swapping my board out today/tomorrow and give the Apex a whirl. Something new to play with at the very least.


Awesome board. Just wish they sold them in New Zealand 
What dram voltage are you running to get the high temps?


----------



## warbucks

munternet said:


> Awesome board. Just wish they sold them in New Zealand
> What dram voltage are you running to get the high temps?


I've got a fan on the RAM now. Sits around 42 degrees now under load. vDimm is 1.48V.


----------



## Jpmboy

ogider said:


> Ogider--i78700K @4.8/4.6---3700Mhz-C14-14-14-34-1T----1.455v---SA 1.260v---Stressapptest----1 Hour G. Skill F4-3200C14D-32GTS
> 
> Real voltages are higher according to hwinfo


that looks like a low latency config... do you have AID64?


----------



## BradleyW

I need a lot of vDIMM voltage to run tighter (but still safe) timings, with no real benefit to AAA titles (FPS).

Frequency seems to have an impact for me though. 3200 vs 4000MHz can increase FPS as high as 12% (GRB: Ultra, 1080p 21:9 - AMD 5700XT - 9900K 5GHz).

So for AAA titles, I'm not sure it really matters if the timings are tighter than specification, unless it makes the 0.01% lows better?

What do you guys have your TRC set to? Do you follow the TRP + TRAS formula? If left on auto, does the motherboard follow this formula? I have it set to the formula + 8 (as advised by the memory guide on Github) to increase stability.

Thank you.


----------



## mouacyk

Jpmboy said:


> that looks like a low latency config... do you have AID64?


holy, it's 2x16GB also


----------



## munternet

I'm thinking this is the end of the line for overclocking this machine for daily use.
Tested with multiple runs of CB R15 & R20, GSAT and Memtest86 multiple runs of test 6 and as the final test many hours of BFV which I will persevere with well into the future. You can't over-test BFV 
I have tried other memory tests and TBH I can pass most of them and still CTD in BFV.
So unless I have missed something obvious?? I will find a CPU for my x299 Taichi and move on


----------



## BradleyW

A must read on TRC timing. Sure, it is AMD being tested, but still informative for Intel users.

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews...ry_optimisation_-_the_effect_of_trc_timings/2


----------



## ogider

Jpmboy said:


> that looks like a low latency config... do you have AID64?


Unfortunately, I had no choice. above 3800Mhz it is very difficult for the bios to pass correctly. Switching to cr2 practically does nothing. So I focused on cr1 tight.

I also tested 4x8 but only a maximum of 4000 cl 16 cr2. So I'd rather stay with 2x16 3700c14. Until the new board and processor.

I have aida but I haven't installed it yet. I am currently on the new system.


----------



## Imprezzion

What is "better" for gaming and normal usage like browsing and such? Lower latency or higher frequency?

I mean, 4200C16 CR2 is great but I'm bored as usual and wanna have something to tweak around with and as both my CPU and GPU are running the absolute max OC they can sustain the RAM is the only thing left.

Would like, 3400-3600 with way lower timings and latency under my current 37.7ns (if at all possible) be "better" for gaming in general? 

I tried to POST CR1 on 3600 and so far no luck, 3200-3400 is fine on CR1 but 3600 needs some tweaking or I'll have to settle for CR2 or 3400 CR1 and I'll have to do some testing with AIDA if I can get latency under 37ns with 3200-3400-3600-3800 or something along that line with a low CL.


----------



## robertr1

Latency wins. If you can get into the 35ns range, you're in a damn good position for increase your 1% lows for gaming. If you can do that with 4000+ frequency, even better.


----------



## asdkj1740

cant pass stress test...
i just set 19-19-19-39-58 and set resistancce to 60 60 120 120 40 40
the rest is configured by enabling xmp profile and 4533+(gigabyte profile) 

voltages manually set:
vccsa1.38
vccio1.38
vdimm1.5

how to make it stable while keeping 4533 19 19 19 39 58 (these timings are xmp rated profile), although i found no problem on gaming like bfv and shadow of the tomb raider in these few days.


----------



## Gen.

it's not over yet


UPD: How to do the right memory training (IOL 13 or 14)? DRAM 1.5, IO&SA 1.25, Training 1.45V....


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> it's not over yet
> 
> 
> UPD: How to do the right memory training (IOL 13 or 14)? DRAM 1.5, IO&SA 1.25, Training 1.45V....


you need only be concerned about the "D0" channel, so it looks fine. The RTLs will depend on the board and stick trace lengths, so if there is no drifting with cold boots you're good to go. :thumb:


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, using a very basic latency calculator I found out to get a lower base latency (not counting secondary and tertiary timings) I should run either 3800CL14 or 3400CL13 or 3200CL12 to get a base latency lower then 4200CL16. New target found. 3400CL13 CR1 hehe. I know it won't do CR1 on 3800 anyway so...


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> Well, using a very basic latency calculator I found out to get a lower base latency (not counting secondary and tertiary timings) I should run either 3800CL14 or 3400CL13 or 3200CL12 to get a base latency lower then 4200CL16. New target found. 3400CL13 CR1 hehe. I know it won't do CR1 on 3800 anyway so...


I tried CAS 13 with my 3200 2x16 GB CL14 sticks and I was reaching for the clear CMOS button


----------



## Gen.

Jpmboy said:


> you need only be concerned about the "D0" channel, so it looks fine. The RTLs will depend on the board and stick trace lengths, so if there is no drifting with cold boots you're good to go. :thumb:


Maybe it is worth changing 1 and 4 bars in places?


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Well, using a very basic latency calculator I found out to get a lower base latency (not counting secondary and tertiary timings) I should run either 3800CL14 or 3400CL13 or 3200CL12 to get a base latency lower then 4200CL16. New target found. 3400CL13 CR1 hehe. I know it won't do CR1 on 3800 anyway so...


depends on the formula the "calculator" uses. Most only consider the first bit or first 8bits. At 64bits none of those frequencies and CAS is lower latency than 4200c16


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> depends on the formula the "calculator" uses. Most only consider the first or 8bits. At 64 bits none of those frequencies and CAS is lower latency than 4200c16


 @Jpmboy
Can any 2x16 GB Cas 14 (3200 mhz) sticks run Cas 13?


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> @*Jpmboy*
> Can any 2x16 GB Cas 14 (3200 mhz) sticks run Cas 13?


yeah, I really need to start playing with higher density sticks more. I'm sure it's possible, but I don't have any that can.


----------



## Booty Die

Just found out testing video games or running a GPU stress test during ram testing is essential if you're planning on playing games with your overclocked ram. 
My ram timings were 100% solid in any ram test (memtest86, tm5, memtest64, etc overnight ) but when running furmark or a game on my GPU (GTX 1070 going to 60-70°C) they would start producing errors. 

I'm guessing this is due to heat from my GPU, and Samsung b-die is apparently really sensitive to this. 

I haven't seen any ram overclock guides mentioning this. Also, common advice seems to be to just run a ramtest 24/7 but this doesn't create the thermals inside your case you might see in real situations. 

tl;dr Run a GPU/CPU stress test or play a video game as a RAM stability test. (eg. Furmark)

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, i did get my RAM to run 3800 14-14-14-28-280-2T stable enough with super tight secondaries to at least run AIDA and it came out at about 59GB read 58.5GB write 55.3GB copy and 37.0ns latency which is barely 0.6ns better than 4200cl16 with way higher bandwidth.. 

1T won;t run on any meaningful combination of frequency and timings above 3000 (even tho i did get 3000 to POST 11-12-12 1T with 1.60v vDIMM lol).


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## nick name

Booty Die said:


> Just found out testing video games or running a GPU stress test during ram testing is essential if you're planning on playing games with your overclocked ram.
> My ram timings were 100% solid in any ram test (memtest86, tm5, memtest64, etc overnight ) but when running furmark or a game on my GPU (GTX 1070 going to 60-70°C) they would start producing errors.
> 
> I'm guessing this is due to heat from my GPU, and Samsung b-die is apparently really sensitive to this.
> 
> I haven't seen any ram overclock guides mentioning this. Also, common advice seems to be to just run a ramtest 24/7 but this doesn't create the thermals inside your case you might see in real situations.
> 
> tl;dr Run a GPU/CPU stress test or play a video game as a RAM stability test. (eg. Furmark)
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


I've run into this as well, but it's not my theory that it's heat related (though I do believe heat will cause instability). I base this on knowing my RAM doesn't get as warm during gaming as it does during testing. I suspect it's just something that doesn't reveal itself through standard RAM tests and adding gaming to your testing is probably prudent. And when I find a setup that causes a crash while gaming it's usually cured with just a little more DRAM voltage.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Well, i did get my RAM to run 3800 14-14-14-28-280-2T stable enough with super tight secondaries to at least run AIDA and it came out at about 59GB read 58.5GB write 55.3GB copy and 37.0ns latency which is barely 0.6ns better than 4200cl16 with way higher bandwidth..
> 1T won;t run on any meaningful combination of frequency and timings above 3000 (even tho i did get 3000 to POST 11-12-12 1T with 1.60v vDIMM lol).


Unfortunately AID64 latency measurement is very variable and even several runs taken at the exact same time after POST and OS handoff to Windows will have quite a range. Heck, even a shaved W10 OS running in diagnostic mode can show +/- 1ns. W7 was more controllable. There is a latency checker around somewhere that tries to address the problem by temp suspension of windows services thru powershell.
Cas 11 is below the chipset min for 1151 socketed boards afaik, the IMC probably was able to sub in 12 - tho no OS-based reader of CAS will see this sub. You probably could get 4000 12-12-12-28-1T to post and bench with 1.9V and a serious 1.3+V VCCIO: pretty common in the HWBOT world. No real stability though, only bench stable.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> Can some please tell me which voltage I need to add if I sometimes get "d4" or "04" error during training. I looked up the code and it says pci resource allocation error, out of resources. I assume I just need to add more voltage? ALso, when I put the sticks in memtest, the computer freezes and I get a "d2" error on the motherboard, the book says PCH Initialization error. Does this mean I need to increase my PCH voltage?


need more info. Unstable ram or bad timing combos can cause many errors during POST. what board, ram freq, timings, voltages... etc.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> Aorus z390 master
> 
> 4x8GB dimms clocked at 4500
> sa/io on auto, 1.38v on each wasn't enough to play games, auto pulls up to 1.416sa and up to 1.396io which allows me to game but spits errors within a couple minutes of memtest when there are 4 or more instances open. Tried just about every sa/io combination in between/spacing etc. Went all the way up to 1.45v to see if it would work.
> Tried vdimm all the way from 1.45v to 1.57v.
> I've tried all the way up to 1.44v static vcore, 1.39v post vdroop
> All the ram timings are 100% auto motherboard timings here.
> 
> Here are the timings:


running 1.4V SA and IO is just not recommended as a 24/7. Second, running that high freq with such loose timings probably performs poorer than a lower freq with more reasonable timings. open CPUZ and post a snip of the "SPD" tab so we know what kit you are working with. Frankly, I'd shoot for 3600 to 4000 with a CAS of 16 (or lower if possible). Lower Sa and IO to under or at 1.3V, Vdimm to 1.45V and have a go. But geeze, 4500 C20 is not good, and I'm certain games would do better at a lower freq with tight timings. 
Also, memtest64 etc are replaced by GSAT or HCi Memtest, or RamTest


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Well, i did get my RAM to run 3800 14-14-14-28-280-2T stable enough with super tight secondaries to at least run AIDA and it came out at about 59GB read 58.5GB write 55.3GB copy and 37.0ns latency which is barely 0.6ns better than 4200cl16 with way higher bandwidth..
> 
> 1T won;t run on any meaningful combination of frequency and timings above 3000 (even tho i did get 3000 to POST 11-12-12 1T with 1.60v vDIMM lol).


Can you enable "trace centering" on your board? That's what gave me an extra 600MHz 1T


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## l Nuke l

anyone got 4600 cl16 gsat stable on a M10Apex? and mind sharing timings?


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> i know its not great by any means but i wanted to validate a base set of timings before i started tightening them. 4500 can also boot at 19/19/19/39 but I haven't messed with it much, ideally I'd like to go back and stabilize it after I stabilize the base motherboard timings. *i'm using a 4x8GB gskill cl17 4000 kit right now*. I currently have a cl15/4000 profile that I use but I want all of the megahertz. I don't care about excess sa/io or voltage damaging the chip, I bought the OC warranty from intel so I plan on collecting my 20 dollar secondary chip no matter what in about 3 years.
> 
> Any idea what I need to do to get these sticks stable? Do i need to blast them with 1.5v sa/io or something? DO i need like 1.46-1.5v vcore or something? 1.6v vdimm?
> 
> You mentioned it could have been timings causing the training errors, Do the timings look pretty standard or did the motherboard botch a specific timing that needs to be manually adjusted, like is anything completely out of place or w/e?


Pumping in the voltages you are talking about you will need some pretty decent cooling to not produce errors


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Falkentyne

reachthesky said:


> It was spitting errors at 60c under load with 4 instances open in hci memtest, the sticks were only at 32c at the time. It has absolutely nothing to do with cooling. I don't need custom cooling and I don't want it. It's a waste of money to buy custom watercooling for an only gaming CPU when all I need to do is slap on some liquid metal and an aio.


Unfortunately you probably aren't going to be able to do that on a Master. If you look on the bot, there are basically no high speed entries for this board.
All of the top spots are dominated by the Dark, Gene and Apex. If you want speeds like that at respectable timings, you need to try one of those boards.

There's really nothing else you can do. There's a reason all the world record holders are using the Apex and Dark.

Has anyone exceeded 4600 mhz stable on any RAM kit on the Master, anywhere?
All I can see are posts about people buying 4400-4600 mhz kits and unable to run at stock XMP settings.

There's some Apex boards over at newegg right now, but they are open box. You can try one of those and have a good time, if you can part with the cash.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119210R

Do you remember Kedarwolf who was always posting his modded Bioses? Even he switched over to the Apex!


----------



## BradleyW

I've found the cause for my general instability issues. It is the TRC setting. If I loosen it from 58 to 66, I can run my RAM at the rated 4000MHz without issues. This is probably why XMP fails for me, as it forces TRC to 58. If left on auto with XMP off, there's no way to read the current value for that timing. Not in the BIOS or through software.

On AMD boards it can run it as loose as 75 by default, even if the RAM is rated at a 45 TRC. My board must also be using a loose value.

This timing can directly effect minimum FPS in AAA titles on high settings.


----------



## acoustic

I wish those Apex open-box boards were available mid-December; I would have purchased that over the DARK. It's a great board, but it does lack some features that annoyed me. Not being able to use my M.2 NVME + M.2 SATA SSD at the same time really frustrated me.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Falkentyne

reachthesky said:


> Ya i remember kedarwolf. I guess that's where I draw the line, like it really does not make any sense at all for me to spend an extra 300 dollars on a new board just to have my memory be 5 nanoseconds faster at best. I guess i'll just run the 4500 with 1.416sa/1.396io for now and game with it unless instability reveals itself during regular use. Lets see how long this IMC holds up .


You have to remember, some people game, but some do benching intensely. For them, benching is a game. And getting world records is what they do. That's exactly how some of these people got hired by companies like Gigabyte and eVGA. Of course they all did LN2 runs, not just pushing memory to the extreme. But once you get noticed like that, companies give you hardware to push because it drives sales.

Have you submitted your results to the bot? You're probably one of the record holders. I don't remember Kedarwolf even getting that far. 
You compared your 4500 results with 4200 and you get higher 1% lows with it, despite the worse timings?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## l Nuke l

best ive been able to do on this kit so far. It will boot 4500 cl17 18 18 40 1T and 4600 cl16 18 18 40 2T but not gsat stable still need to tweak timings. 4400 cl17 18 18 40 328 1T 2 hours gsat stable. This kit also does 4133 cl12 11 11 28 1T for benching.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## l Nuke l

reachthesky said:


> l Nuke l said:
> 
> 
> 
> best ive been able to do on this kit so far. It will boot 4500 cl17 18 18 40 1T and 4600 cl16 18 18 40 2T but not gsat stable still need to tweak timings. 4400 cl17 18 18 40 328 1T 2 hours gsat stable. This kit also does 4133 cl12 11 11 28 1T for benching.
> 
> 
> 
> Sick results!
> 
> I have a question if you don't mind, I noticed your tWtr S and L are the same which resulted in the twrrd timings being the same. I don't fully understand how all the timings work, but is it more beneficial to match the twtr s/l timings for latency or something?
Click to expand...

thanks everything is set manually they dont have to be the same but normally work best when they are no more than 2 clicks from each other.


----------



## xNAPx

l Nuke l said:


> best ive been able to do on this kit so far. It will boot 4500 cl17 18 18 40 1T and 4600 cl16 18 18 40 2T but not gsat stable still need to tweak timings. 4400 cl17 18 18 40 328 1T 2 hours gsat stable. This kit also does 4133 cl12 11 11 28 1T for benching.


Wow what ram do you have? I've got some Patriot viper running 4400 18-18-18-36 280 2t, impossible to make them boot at 1t at 1.5v


----------



## l Nuke l

xNAPx said:


> l Nuke l said:
> 
> 
> 
> best ive been able to do on this kit so far. It will boot 4500 cl17 18 18 40 1T and 4600 cl16 18 18 40 2T but not gsat stable still need to tweak timings. 4400 cl17 18 18 40 328 1T 2 hours gsat stable. This kit also does 4133 cl12 11 11 28 1T for benching.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow what ram do you have? I've got some Patriot viper running 4400 18-18-18-36 280 2t, impossible to make them boot at 1t at 1.5v
Click to expand...

 gskill trident z black 4400c19 kit. depends on motherboard and cpu imc too.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## l Nuke l

reachthesky said:


> xNAPx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow what ram do you have? I've got some Patriot viper running 4400 18-18-18-36 280 2t, impossible to make them boot at 1t at 1.5v
> 
> 
> 
> I have read that it is very hard to get 1T on 3800mhz and higher. You need an exceptional motherboard and a great IMC. 1T only boots for me at 3333mhz and under ;/.
Click to expand...

yeah im on an Asus M10Apex which is only 2 dimms to maximize ram performance and my 8700k is a really good chip.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## chibi

l Nuke l said:


> best ive been able to do on this kit so far. It will boot 4500 cl17 18 18 40 1T and 4600 cl16 18 18 40 2T but not gsat stable still need to tweak timings. 4400 cl17 18 18 40 328 1T 2 hours gsat stable. This kit also does 4133 cl12 11 11 28 1T for benching.



For those CPU / Cache clocks and memory speeds, I would expect much lower latency. Do you have any instability anywhere for the CPU perhaps? Here's a snippet of my results at lower speeds.


----------



## l Nuke l

chibi said:


> l Nuke l said:
> 
> 
> 
> best ive been able to do on this kit so far. It will boot 4500 cl17 18 18 40 1T and 4600 cl16 18 18 40 2T but not gsat stable still need to tweak timings. 4400 cl17 18 18 40 328 1T 2 hours gsat stable. This kit also does 4133 cl12 11 11 28 1T for benching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those CPU / Cache clocks and memory speeds, I would expect much lower latency. Do you have any instability anywhere for the CPU perhaps? Here's a snippet of my results at lower speeds.
Click to expand...

 your on a z390 board and 9900ks thats why. My times and latency are in line with other 8700k and z370 boards. its like comparing a 8700k and 9900k cinebench r15 scores. a 9900k at 5.0 will score better than an 8700k at 5.4. you have 2 more cores.


----------



## chibi

l Nuke l said:


> your on a z390 board and 9900ks thats why. My times and latency are in line with other 8700k and z370 boards.



You're absolutely right, I read your screenshot as Apex XI by mistake. Excellent results. :thumb:


----------



## l Nuke l

reachthesky said:


> l Nuke l said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah im on an Asus M10Apex which is only 2 dimms to maximize ram performance and my 8700k is a really good chip.
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to latency, 2 dimms will always be about 2 NS faster at the same clockspeeds than 4 dimms regardless of t-topology or daisy chain right?
Click to expand...

 2 dimms or 1 dimm per channel is more efficient for overclocking ram. theres less traces on the pcb and the traces that are there are shorter. less traffic as i understand it. ask buildzoid lol.


chibi said:


> l Nuke l said:
> 
> 
> 
> your on a z390 board and 9900ks thats why. My times and latency are in line with other 8700k and z370 boards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're absolutely right, I read your screenshot as Apex XI by mistake. Excellent results. /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

 Thanks dude been itching for a 9900ks and a M11Apex or z390 dark but i think imma just wait for z490. Also was thinking about scoopin up some 4800 c18 royals but with how good the sticks i have now have been doing not sure if the royals will do any better.


----------



## xNAPx

I'm on a z390 (i9900k) phantom as rock mini itx.
I'm able to boot at 1t only at 3600, but latencywise and the rest is much faster at 4400 2t


----------



## asdkj1740

Falkentyne said:


> Unfortunately you probably aren't going to be able to do that on a Master. If you look on the bot, there are basically no high speed entries for this board.
> All of the top spots are dominated by the Dark, Gene and Apex. If you want speeds like that at respectable timings, you need to try one of those boards.
> 
> There's really nothing else you can do. There's a reason all the world record holders are using the Apex and Dark.
> 
> Has anyone exceeded 4600 mhz stable on any RAM kit on the Master, anywhere?
> All I can see are posts about people buying 4400-4600 mhz kits and unable to run at stock XMP settings.
> 
> There's some Apex boards over at newegg right now, but they are open box. You can try one of those and have a good time, if you can part with the cash.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119210R
> 
> Do you remember Kedarwolf who was always posting his modded Bioses? Even he switched over to the Apex!


that is the exact reason why i want to get 4533c19 8g*4 stable on aorus master.
aorus master is unquie to the mobos you name, as aorus master is the only t-topology among them.
4600 is sure not high especially on two dimms mobos. but to aorus master or gigabyte as a whole, it is a milestone.
at least aorus master gives 4533 is chance to boot and run without serious problem, we are almost there to get it stable.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## robertr1

jfriend00 said:


> There is NO point in working on improving performance until you have it entirely stable. So, fix your stability issue first. For memory overclocking, you need to go from one stable point to another stable point with lots of testing in between to verify stability. You don't improve performance and then try to find stability because you will have no idea which of the last 25 changes you made to improve performance caused your stability issue and you'll have to loosen everything up, prove stability and then start improving performance.
> 
> 1. Establish Stability with appropriate testing
> 2. Make a tweak to improve performance
> 3. Verify that the tweak did actually improve performance (I use AIDA64 memory benchmark)
> 4. Verify stability with at least a 3-4 hour memory stability test (RAMTest, MemTest86 or HCI MemTest). If not stable, undo recent change and go back to step 1
> 5. If stable, go back to step 2


Can too low of a trfc give you hard locks randomly but pass hcimemtest to 800% per thread?

I’ve been wrestling with this issue for a few days now. System will be fine and passing October large/avx2 which hits ram but then other times occt won’t even show an error and just lock up and require a hard reboot. Same with random lockup’s on desktop and in apps.

I did a 2 hr run of non ram oc, not even xmp with occt large/avx2 which passed and now doing xmp with occt which is also fine.

I read an older post of yours that said that hcimemtest wil not stress your trfc and trefi thus I’m wondering.

Should I load up my oc profile, set trfc and trefi to auto and run the tests? Would that help eliminate those as factors?

My settings: https://www.overclock.net/forum/28254020-post10919.html


----------



## Apothysis

Well I've had about a month to play around with my F4-3600C15-GTZ now and I've been able to get the following three setups going:

4200 16-16-16 1T @ 1.5v RAM 1.15v IO/SA (no screenshot - only difference compared to 4400 is having to run tWTR_S/L at 6/8 and RTL at 57/59)
4300 16-16-16 2T @ 1.5v RAM 1.168 IO/SA

And finally, with me being greedy and living on the edge, my daily:

4400 16-16-16 2T @ 1.535v RAM 1.25v IO/SA - Karhu 6400%

Also did a run at 4600 17-17-17 2T 1.5v and although the bandwidth is good the latency is higher (compare RTL/IOL) and low latency is my fetish. Didn't bother trying to stabilize this as it wants IO/SA in the ranges of 1.30-1.35v. Might give it a go if I'm bored later on.

As far as performance goes I did a rough and dirty comparison taking a 3 run average of Timespy CPU-test: 4400 16 2T (14023 pts) > 4600 17 2T (13968) > 4200 16 1T (13953) > 4300 16 2T (13884).


----------



## kingfaris10

I have the Maximus XI Hero, it posts 4400MHz & 4500MHz on an older BIOS version (1302) but refuses to post 4400MHz+ on the latest. If you're having issues posting 4400MHz, try using BIOS version 1302.


----------



## Hydroplane

Apothysis said:


> Well I've had about a month to play around with my F4-3600C15-GTZ now and I've been able to get the following three setups going:
> 
> 4200 16-16-16 1T @ 1.5v RAM 1.15v IO/SA (no screenshot - only difference compared to 4400 is having to run tWTR_S/L at 6/8 and RTL at 57/59)
> 4300 16-16-16 2T @ 1.5v RAM 1.168 IO/SA
> 
> And finally, with me being greedy and living on the edge, my daily:
> 
> 4400 16-16-16 2T @ 1.535v RAM 1.25v IO/SA - Karhu 6400%
> 
> Also did a run at 4600 17-17-17 2T 1.5v and although the bandwidth is good the latency is higher (compare RTL/IOL) and low latency is my fetish. Didn't bother trying to stabilize this as it wants IO/SA in the ranges of 1.30-1.35v. Might give it a go if I'm bored later on.
> 
> As far as performance goes I did a rough and dirty comparison taking a 3 run average of Timespy CPU-test: 4400 16 2T (14023 pts) > 4600 17 2T (13968) > 4200 16 1T (13953) > 4300 16 2T (13884).


Nice OC, those 3600c15 sticks are good performers


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## BLUuuE

reachthesky said:


> Hey i wanted to ask a quick question. I noticed for trefi, 32768 is recommended more often than not for good b-die kits. Is trefi somehow related to the amount of ram you have. Like 32768 = the exact amount of megabytes of ram I have(4x8GB kit). Is trefi somehow optimal or based on or linked with how many megabytes of ram you have?


Nope. That's just pure coincidence.

Max tREFI is 65535 and 32768 is roughly half of that.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## BradleyW

Do any RAM timings effect mouse latency?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## ViTosS

I can`t go any higher than this, can`t even boot higher than 4000Mhz or decrease my timings and be 100% stable, I think I`m limited by my mobo atm, I thought buying Z390 Apex XI but with the 10th gen coming soon I think it will be Z490 only and if I buy Z390 I would be stuck with my 8700k or future 9900ks... I kinda don`t want to upgrade my CPU because it`s not necessary for 1440p gaming but at the same time I want to OC my RAM higher and that would only be possible with Apex XI 

Tried also running 320 tRFC and 33336 tREFI and 16 tWR and wasn`t stable...


----------



## xNAPx

Guys i need some help trying to figure out some minor but annoying issue. With my previous memory kit (avexir 3600 19 19 19 39) and old bios (asrock phantom gaming itx z390) my bios boot time was stimated into task manager 3.2/3.3sec in ultra fast boot sometimes 4.8(quite uncommonly), cold boot had same behaviour and even better, (i was able to get into windows almost instantaneously, by the time my screen splashscreen was off, windows was already up) since I installed my new RAM, i was expecting improvements but it's the opposite, it got worse(viper patriot 4400 19 19 19 39 running @18 18 18 36) my bios boot time averagely increased to 3.3/3.4 and very often it's over 5 sec, especially on cold boot, while the previous memory stick was able to be istantaneous, now is very slow, only in one occasion it actually reveals faster, when I shut down windows and switch on the pc again, in that case bios boot time is 2.5seconds,this is actually the behaviour I was expecting from these ram, but it's the only scenario, for the rest is always slower. I tried to configure some voltages (vccio/sa, pll) but couldn't figure out what can be the cause of this weird behavior, tried to set memory fast boot or not, AHCI suspend to ram, but honestly I don't know. The system is very stable tried many test, am I missing something?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## JustinThyme

BradleyW said:


> Do any RAM timings effect mouse latency?


Its shouldnt or at least not enough to make any notice as that same latency would be noticed system wide.
Id be more apt to believe its the mouse, USB drivers or onboard USB controller.


----------



## BradleyW

Lots of screenshots on here but no word of what you are all running your TRC at. I'm heavily struggling with memory stability and TRC plays a huge part in stability and performance.


----------



## daniel audanie

Finally dialed in on my Winter overclock. 1.49v Hynix cjr, original xmp 3733 cl17. Wish I could push trfc further but it just doesn't scale like the fabled b-die does. Trefi could definitely go further.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## l Nuke l

so I just saw something in gsat that i never noticed before. is this indication that there is an error? see screenshot at 5440


----------



## l Nuke l

reachthesky said:


> It crashes to desktop when I try to play modern warfare lol. Maybe I need to add more vcore


 check event viewer and make sure its not the nvidea driver crashing. could be gpu oc.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## l Nuke l

passed 2 hours of hci memtest, gsat and realbench


----------



## ViTosS

l Nuke l said:


> passed 2 hours of hci memtest, gsat and realbench


Why do you use a BIOS version very old? Is it better than the new ones? I`m using the latest one...


----------



## l Nuke l

ViTosS said:


> Why do you use a BIOS version very old? Is it better than the new ones? I`m using the latest one...


I tested different ram overclocks with every bio version from 0802 to the most recent and bios ver.1003 overclocks the best for me. For some reason my ram is most stable on this bios.


----------



## ViTosS

l Nuke l said:


> I tested different ram overclocks with every bio version from 0802 to the most recent and bios ver.1003 overclocks the best for me. For some reason my ram is most stable on this bios.


Interesting, I may try that BIOS, maybe I can go over 4000Mhz with that...


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> It crashes to desktop when I try to play modern warfare lol. Maybe I need to add more vcore


I found a CTD in BFV is usually memory or cache related. CPU errors usually show up as WHEA errors at the bottom of HWinfo64 for me or blue screen..


----------



## Falkentyne

Are these speeds and timings decent for 3600 mhz or are these garbage? (3200 CL14 dual rank).


----------



## acoustic

Those look about right


----------



## JustinThyme

ViTosS said:


> Why do you use a BIOS version very old? Is it better than the new ones? I`m using the latest one...



BIOS ROMs are weird creatures. News one fix one problem and create another. Generally speaking I dont change mine unless there is a problem. For giggles I dumped 2002 which is the lastest for my ASUS RVIE last week. Nothing but trouble. VROC dumped, drive issues, memory would not run XMP let alone a decent OC. Thankfully this board has two BIOS EPROMS. So it was just a matter of depressing a button to get back to where I was as a much older 1603. I may toy with the newer one later but as of now its junk.


Heres mine at XMP, Just tightened timings a little 
3600 is what is is then dumped back 2 on CL TtRCD tRP and tRAS from 18,19,19,19 to 16,17,17,37
Still a lot to be tweaked out on the ram and the mesh. About to change out some other stuff so that can wait.
Dunno why the Asrock utility shows it as dual channel when its quad.


----------



## Falkentyne

acoustic said:


> Those look about right


Ok I got it better by adjusting some of the tertiaries (or are they secondaries?) down manually.


----------



## Imprezzion

Ever seen B-Die do this? 

I played around with a low latency config for a bit and even tho this isn't what i'm going to run 24/7 as the difference is sub 1ns it's still fun to play with.

Don't mind the wierd bclk and ram frequency, this board will not POST CR1 with any divider over 3000Mhz but if i just use 3000Mhz divider with more BCLK it's fine so... lol.. 
Unfortunately it won't do CL10 on 3000+ otherwise that would've brought latency way further down.

Next stop: 3200Mhz. I might try with bclk first to maintain CR1 but over 104Mhz bclk is getting a bit iffy for the rest of the system lol.

EDIT: This is on 1.65v vDIMM btw with 1.1v IO 1.0v SA.


----------



## robalm

Falkentyne said:


> Are these speeds and timings decent for 3600 mhz or are these garbage? (3200 CL14 dual rank).


Looks very good at 1.35v, mine only do 3600MHz cl16 at 1.35v.


----------



## robalm

Imprezzion said:


> Ever seen B-Die do this?
> 
> I played around with a low latency config for a bit and even tho this isn't what i'm going to run 24/7 as the difference is sub 1ns it's still fun to play with.
> 
> Don't mind the wierd bclk and ram frequency, this board will not POST CR1 with any divider over 3000Mhz but if i just use 3000Mhz divider with more BCLK it's fine so... lol..
> Unfortunately it won't do CL10 on 3000+ otherwise that would've brought latency way further down.
> 
> Next stop: 3200Mhz. I might try with bclk first to maintain CR1 but over 104Mhz bclk is getting a bit iffy for the rest of the system lol.
> 
> EDIT: This is on 1.65v vDIMM btw with 1.1v IO 1.0v SA.


Eh, looks normal. Most good b-die can do minumum 4000Mhz at cl 12 at high voltage.


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> Eh, looks normal. Most good b-die can do minumum 4000Mhz at cl 12 at high voltage.


Point taken. I don't have good B-Die tho  This bin is bottom of the barrel 3600C18 Corsair Vengeance RGB stuff. Besides, you never see anyone do lower frequency and low timing stuff with B-Die. Everyone just pushes for 4000+ on B-Die while it's actually pretty good on lower frequencies as well.

I can't do CL12 4000 on any useful voltages, it will actually POST and do a AIDA bench on 1.75v but that's not usable. For a more "normal" voltage (i consider 1.65v kinda usable) it bottoms out on CL14 for 4000 but i can do CL13 on 3733 with pretty tight subtimings which gives me a pretty low latency however it IRQL BSOD when i HCI test it haha..

Here's the lowest i managed to get overall latency so far. 3733 is pretty much the sweet spot for these DIMM's. Wasn't very stable tho lol.. 

I will see if i can push it to 4266 or even 4300 on my current stable timing set of 4200-16-17-17. They've proven perfectly stable for many many tests so..


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Point taken. I don't have good B-Die tho  This bin is bottom of the barrel 3600C18 Corsair Vengeance RGB stuff. Besides, you never see anyone do lower frequency and low timing stuff with B-Die. Everyone just pushes for 4000+ on B-Die while it's actually pretty good on lower frequencies as well.
> 
> I can't do CL12 4000 on any useful voltages, it will actually POST and do a AIDA bench on 1.75v but that's not usable. For a more "normal" voltage (i consider 1.65v kinda usable) it bottoms out on CL14 for 4000 but i can do CL13 on 3733 with pretty tight subtimings which gives me a pretty low latency however it IRQL BSOD when i HCI test it haha..
> 
> Here's the lowest i managed to get overall latency so far. 3733 is pretty much the sweet spot for these DIMM's. Wasn't very stable tho lol..
> 
> I will see if i can push it to 4266 or even 4300 on my current stable timing set of 4200-16-17-17. They've proven perfectly stable for many many tests so..


If it's stable 2 hours playing Battlefield V multiplayer, then it's pretty stable  BF V hates unstable hardware


----------



## Falkentyne

robalm said:


> Looks very good at 1.35v, mine only do 3600MHz cl16 at 1.35v.


It's 1.45v not 1.35v.


----------



## ViTosS

I switched the top fans direction to improve my airflow on memory sticks, did that because now in the summer in Brazil my OC became unstable when it was stable in the winter, it got me 5 celsius lower than before and the OC is stable again, may compromise the GPU temperature this way because the only fan to exaust hot air is the rear one now.


----------



## Imprezzion

Nizzen said:


> If it's stable 2 hours playing Battlefield V multiplayer, then it's pretty stable  BF V hates unstable hardware


It IRQL BSOD'd doing a AIDA run so nah that wasn't very stable lol.

You know what's wierd tho.. 4200C16 1.55v 1.3 IO 1.25 SA is rock solid in BFV and any other test. Just raising to 4300 is instant BSOD and even 4266 is a total no-go. 

Now comes the kicker. If I raise BCLK to 102.4 for 4300 it seems fine... How can BCLK effect a RAM OC so much... This MSI Ace is really wierd sometimes haha.


----------



## chibi

ViTosS said:


> I switched the top fans direction to improve my airflow on memory sticks, did that because now in the summer in Brazil my OC became unstable when it was stable in the winter, it got me 5 celsius lower than before and the OC is stable again, may compromise the GPU temperature this way because the only fan to exaust hot air is the rear one now.



I did top left exhaust and top right intake on my Meshify C to help ram temps. :thumb:


----------



## ViTosS

chibi said:


> I did top left exhaust and top right intake on my Meshify C to help ram temps. :thumb:


Yeah I ended up having to do that, GPU temp was enormaly higher than before, like 15 celsius, I switched now the rear top to exaust and left the RAM intake and now GPU is back again to normal temp just like when I used two top exaust but this time only one, and memory stays cooler this way


----------



## l Nuke l

Imprezzion said:


> Point taken. I don't have good B-Die tho  This bin is bottom of the barrel 3600C18 Corsair Vengeance RGB stuff. Besides, you never see anyone do lower frequency and low timing stuff with B-Die. Everyone just pushes for 4000+ on B-Die while it's actually pretty good on lower frequencies as well.
> 
> I can't do CL12 4000 on any useful voltages, it will actually POST and do a AIDA bench on 1.75v but that's not usable. For a more "normal" voltage (i consider 1.65v kinda usable) it bottoms out on CL14 for 4000 but i can do CL13 on 3733 with pretty tight subtimings which gives me a pretty low latency however it IRQL BSOD when i HCI test it haha..
> 
> Here's the lowest i managed to get overall latency so far. 3733 is pretty much the sweet spot for these DIMM's. Wasn't very stable tho lol..
> 
> I will see if i can push it to 4266 or even 4300 on my current stable timing set of 4200-16-17-17. They've proven perfectly stable for many many tests so..


 here is 3866 12 12 12 28 220 1T. If I set max mem in windows below 4000mb I can do 4000mhz without changing any of the timings, and if i increase SA/IO I can do 4133 with the same timings. Its b die man. lol


----------



## SgtRotty

munternet said:


> reachthesky said:
> 
> 
> 
> It crashes to desktop when I try to play modern warfare lol. Maybe I need to add more vcore
> 
> 
> 
> I found a CTD in BFV is usually memory or cache related. CPU errors usually show up as WHEA errors at the bottom of HWinfo64 for me or blue screen..
Click to expand...

+1


----------



## BradleyW

l Nuke l said:


> here is 3866 12 12 12 28 220 1T. If I set max mem in windows below 4000mb I can do 4000mhz without changing any of the timings, and if i increase SA/IO I can do 4133 with the same timings. Its b die man. lol


What RAM kit do you have and I see you are not running in dual channel.

Guy's I think one of my Trident Z 4000 CL18 sticks is faulty. How do you all rate these?
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/patr...dual-channel-kit-pvs416g440c9k-my-103-pa.html

It is all I can afford and I would try for 4000MHz so the system should provide tighter timings when training.


----------



## l Nuke l

BradleyW said:


> What RAM kit do you have and I see you are not running in dual channel.
> 
> Guy's I think one of my Trident Z 4000 CL18 sticks is faulty. How do you all rate these?
> https://www.overclockers.co.uk/patr...dual-channel-kit-pvs416g440c9k-my-103-pa.html
> 
> It is all I can afford and I would try for 4000MHz so the system should provide tighter timings when training.


Its only a two stick board. kit is a gskill trident z 4400c19 blacks

check out buildzoids video on your kit


----------



## l Nuke l

okay so besides the occasional 55 and 49 when booting that I can just hit the retry button on the mobo to post through. Could prob bump IO/SA some more to resolve this but its whatever retry works. I think Ive got my 24/7 oc dialed in pretty good. rams @ 4400mhz cl17 18 18 38 328 1T, cpu core @ 5.3ghz, cache @ 5.0ghz. stable for two hours with hci memtest, gsat, realbench and aida64 cache test.


----------



## Imprezzion

Nice results there, especially in the CPU and cache!

Seeing as how I had to work today at 8AM I let my PC run a couple of tests last night and it survived so far lol.

I am now down to baseclock OC as the memory won't work or train properly on higher dividers then 4200 but it runs fine on 100.5 so far for 5125 CPU 4825 cache with 4220 16-17-17-28-280 for the memory.

When i get off work today I'll raise BCLK to 101.0 or something like that and go play some BFV and Borderlands 3 and see if it holds up in gaming tests on that BCLK.


----------



## BradleyW

Thanks for the video Nuke.

Interestingly, if I use DIMM 1 in SLOT 4, the system won't boot. If I use DIMM 2 in SLOT 4, it'll boot. You'd think DIMM 1 is faulty, but it works fine in any other slot. So SLOT 4 is bad right? Well, DIMM 2 works in SLOT 4 just fine.

What could cause this? Thank you.


----------



## l Nuke l

BradleyW said:


> Thanks for the video Nuke.
> 
> Interestingly, if I use DIMM 1 in SLOT 4, the system won't boot. If I use DIMM 2 in SLOT 4, it'll boot. You'd think DIMM 1 is faulty, but it works fine in any other slot. So SLOT 4 is bad right? Well, DIMM 2 works in SLOT 4 just fine.
> 
> What could cause this? Thank you.


 is this at completely stock settings? no xmp loaded? if not clear cmos and retest again and report.


----------



## robertr1

I have a pretty poor bin so this is the best I can do for now until I get some better b die:

I use occt large/avx2 as my baseline. TM5 was just a 2nd validation.


----------



## warbucks

robertr1 said:


> I have a pretty poor bin so this is the best I can do for now until I get some better b die:
> 
> I use occt large/avx2 as my baseline. TM5 was just a 2nd validation.


That's pretty dang good. I'm about to pop in my Maximus XI APEX board tonight and crank up my b-die as well.


----------



## munternet

This is it for me, really 
Tried CL16 and it ran ok on memtest but it spat the dummy on BFV and CTD.
Thought about getting some F4-3600C15D-16GTZ but not sure if the gains would be worth it?


----------



## ViTosS

The best I could get in this board, 400% stable HCI MemTest but forgot to print


----------



## BradleyW

l Nuke l said:


> is this at completely stock settings? no xmp loaded? if not clear cmos and retest again and report.


After adding and removing the stick several times and turning on the PC in-between, it booted. Yes it was complete stock JEDEC.


----------



## acoustic

Finally started tweaking memory on my Z390 Dark. Running 5.1/4.8 @ 1.15 vccio/sa

F4-3200C15D-32GVK ; 2x16gb 3200 15-15-15-35 stock @ 1.35

Currently running 3800 @ 1.5v 15-15-15-30 with tightened sub timings .. doing overnight hci test for stability.

1.5v is max I'm comfortable for 24/7. I couldn't get 4000 to post, dram would hang and infinite power cycle. might need VCCIO/SA bumped but I'd rather not make more heat for slight ram speed increase

Still have some secondary timings that can be tweaked further. I was running 3600 14-14-14-28 CR1 but was getting errors around 20% on hci.


----------



## Lefty23

l Nuke l said:


> okay so besides the occasional 55 and 49 when booting that I can just hit the retry button on the mobo to post through. Could prob bump IO/SA some more to resolve this but its whatever retry works.


Nice result there. 
Even though it was nowhere near as optimized as what you achieved, I was running 4400cr1 from Jan 18 until a couple weeks ago.
In the beginning I was having the rare problem with warm boots (mainly code 55). What helped me was setting the boot SA/IO voltages at 2-3 bins higher than the eventual (that would be around 1.29 boot SA, 1.26 boot IO in your case).

Same board (Apex X) same kit (?F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK) so, if you consider running this 247, you may want to try using these boot voltages (if I remember correctly they’re under the Digi+ submenu in extreme tweaker page).
Maybe they will help you too.


----------



## l Nuke l

Lefty23 said:


> l Nuke l said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay so besides the occasional 55 and 49 when booting that I can just hit the retry button on the mobo to post through. Could prob bump IO/SA some more to resolve this but its whatever retry works.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice result there.
> Even though it was nowhere near as optimized as what you achieved, I was running 4400cr1 from Jan 18 until a couple weeks ago.
> In the beginning I was having the rare problem with warm boots (mainly code 55). What helped me was setting the boot SA/IO voltages at 2-3 bins higher than the eventual (that would be around 1.29 boot SA, 1.26 boot IO in your case).
> 
> Same board (Apex X) same kit (?F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK) so, if you consider running this 247, you may want to try using these boot voltages (if I remember correctly theyâ€™️re under the Digi+ submenu in extreme tweaker page).
> Maybe they will help you too.
Click to expand...

 was actually thinking about that. thanks for the confirmation that it works.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, 4266 divider won't work at all but BCLK OC to 101.0Mhz with 4200 divider for 4242Mhz memory runs fine so far in HCI a couple 100% and Borderlands 3 for a few hours and a round for 2 of BFV grand ops so.. seems fine to me lol.


----------



## Jpmboy

[email protected], cache 30, 8x8GB G.Skill 3600c16 (yeah, mixing two kits). 64GB at 3600c15 and 4000c17. Both at 1.42V. I have to set the AB and CD channels at 1.41 and 1.42V to get the same 1.426V on each channel (measured by software and a DMM off the MB), otherwise I was having difficulty getting the RTLs to behave.
Clock period at 10, manual RTP at 8, FAW at 16, tWR and tCWL at 12 really helped stabilize things and align RTLs vs leaving these on Auto.


----------



## l Nuke l

Lefty23 said:


> Nice result there.
> Even though it was nowhere near as optimized as what you achieved, I was running 4400cr1 from Jan 18 until a couple weeks ago.
> In the beginning I was having the rare problem with warm boots (mainly code 55). What helped me was setting the boot SA/IO voltages at 2-3 bins higher than the eventual (that would be around 1.29 boot SA, 1.26 boot IO in your case).
> 
> Same board (Apex X) same kit (?F4-4400C19D-16GTZKK) so, if you consider running this 247, you may want to try using these boot voltages (if I remember correctly they’re under the Digi+ submenu in extreme tweaker page).
> Maybe they will help you too.


Hey so I set the boot voltages higher than my actual sa/io voltages and measured them with my dmm when powering on system and noticed that once your memory goes into training (post code 47) the voltages than drop into their normal set state. So boot voltages only effect the initial boot up. the actual training of the ram before posting runs at the standard voltage set in bios.


----------



## gecko991

My doorbell just rang ten minutes ago and boom.


----------



## warbucks

gecko991 said:


> My doorbell just rang ten minutes ago and boom.


I have the same 4266Mhz kit. You'll like it a lot.


----------



## gecko991

cool thanks. I love Gskill. running 3600 at 3820mhz C16 on this Asus Prime A. Doing another build with a Taichi ultimate soon.


----------



## Imprezzion

Does anyone know which chips are on G.Skill Trident Z Neo F4-3600C16D-16GTZNC? Mate of mine just bought a upgrade for his aging system with a 9600K, Z390 Elite and this kit (not a high budget) and I wanna know what I can expect from this RAM kit when he inevitably asks me to OC the system like I did many years ago on his 37570K. (CPU will be cooled with a NH-D15 Chromax Black)


----------



## Grizzly111

Guys, I'm trying to choose between two Gskill products: either 4x matched DIMMS of 8GB 3600Mhz CL16-16-16 DDR4 [F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS] or 2x separate sets of 4000Mhz CL17-17-17 [F4-4000C17D-16GTRS]. 

Is there much advantage of going for the 4 matched DIMMS but dropping speed & latency vs the 2 sets of the better binned DIMMS (both total 32GB) on a Z390 Aorus Master?


----------



## Lefty23

l Nuke l said:


> Hey so I set the boot voltages higher than my actual sa/io voltages and measured them with my dmm when powering on system and noticed that once your memory goes into training (post code 47) the voltages than drop into their normal set state. So boot voltages only effect the initial boot up. the actual training of the ram before posting runs at the standard voltage set in bios.



First of all, sorry this was not a solution to the problem and even more so, if you felt like you wasted your time trying this.
That being said, thank you for providing info on what actually happens during boot up. Even though I wouldn't know what to look for nowadays - haven't used one in decades (since university) - a dmm just got into my to-get list. 

I am curious though as to why boot sa/io voltages solved my "code 55 during reboot" problem. Maybe it was so rare (after first occurrence, when I was trying to reproduce, it was happening once every ~20 reboots) that it just never happened again and voltages had nothing to do with it. However, the pc was running fine for 20+ months after I begun using them. I would consider this long enough period for the problem to resurface.
Do you mind checking if the behavior of the voltages is the same during power on and reboot? 
I don't really expect it to be different but it's the only other thing I can think of.


----------



## BLUuuE

Imprezzion said:


> Does anyone know which chips are on G.Skill Trident Z Neo F4-3600C16D-16GTZNC? Mate of mine just bought a upgrade for his aging system with a 9600K, Z390 Elite and this kit (not a high budget) and I wanna know what I can expect from this RAM kit when he inevitably asks me to OC the system like I did many years ago on his 37570K. (CPU will be cooled with a NH-D15 Chromax Black)


16-19-19-39 usually means CJR or DJR, possibly Micron Rev. E.


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> Guys, I'm trying to choose between two Gskill products: either 4x matched DIMMS of 8GB 3600Mhz CL16-16-16 DDR4 [F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS] or 2x separate sets of 4000Mhz CL17-17-17 [F4-4000C17D-16GTRS].
> 
> Is there much advantage of going for the 4 matched DIMMS but dropping speed & latency vs the 2 sets of the better binned DIMMS (both total 32GB) on a Z390 Aorus Master?


I think the F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS are binned well also and overclock well.
I don't have any but a few of the experienced folk here speak highly of them (or the plain versions without the lights which may overclock better) 

Edit: You didn't say what your intentions are. Will you be pushing them hard or using XMP? 
Overclocked I think there will be little difference but the F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS set is matched which I understand is generally preferable.


----------



## Grizzly111

munternet said:


> I think the F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS are binned well also and overclock well.
> I don't have any but a few of the experienced folk here speak highly of them (or the plain versions without the lights which may overclock better)
> 
> Edit: You didn't say what your intentions are. Will you be pushing them hard or using XMP?
> Overclocked I think there will be little difference but the F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS set is matched which I understand is generally preferable.



Thanks for the reply Munternet. I am confident overclocking DDR4 RAM but I just want to be sure that I will get the best kit(s) available. My main concern was that I'd have to buy 2x 2x8 packs of the 4000MhzCL17 kit ...and that would possibly introduce problems getting to the XMP rating whereas a 4xDIMM kit would be guaranteed. Not sure what the likelyhood is???


If they didnt do XMP how likely would I be able to force 4000MhzCL17?


**I would prefer no RGB but there don't appear to be any kits with that spec around!


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Looks fine 
https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/299/1550816006/F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS-Specification

Using two kits well you'd be better off just finding a 2x16gb kit and leave it there for 32gb for 4k MHz...


----------



## Grizzly111

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Looks fine
> https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/299/1550816006/F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS-Specification
> 
> Using two kits well you'd be better off just finding a 2x16gb kit and leave it there for 32gb for 4k MHz...



My board (Aorus Master Z390) is T-Topology so apparently 4xsticks works better according to Buildzoid?


EDIT: just checked Gskill dont make any 2x16gb 4000Mhz kits at cl17 (best is cl19)


----------



## ThrashZone

Grizzly111 said:


> My board (Aorus Master Z390) is T-Topology so apparently 4xsticks works better according to Buildzoid?
> 
> 
> EDIT: just checked Gskill dont make any 2x16gb 4000Mhz kits at cl17 (best is cl19)


Hi,
C19 should be fine.
3600C16 can doi 4k mhz pretty easily 
What 's the boards max frequency with 4 dimms 4122/...


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I got a set of these a month or so ago because the price was like 270.us and I couldn't let it pass 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232585

They come in and out of stock often 
Also have the black set too F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK still cheaper than when I bought them less than a year ago from newegg
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B073XD8H6V/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all


----------



## l Nuke l

Lefty23 said:


> l Nuke l said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey so I set the boot voltages higher than my actual sa/io voltages and measured them with my dmm when powering on system and noticed that once your memory goes into training (post code 47) the voltages than drop into their normal set state. So boot voltages only effect the initial boot up. the actual training of the ram before posting runs at the standard voltage set in bios.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, sorry this was not a solution to the problem and even more so, if you felt like you wasted your time trying this.
> That being said, thank you for providing info on what actually happens during boot up. Even though I wouldn't know what to look for nowadays - haven't used one in decades (since university) - a dmm just got into my to-get list.
> 
> I am curious though as to why boot sa/io voltages solved my "code 55 during reboot" problem. Maybe it was so rare (after first occurrence, when I was trying to reproduce, it was happening once every ~20 reboots) that it just never happened again and voltages had nothing to do with it. However, the pc was running fine for 20+ months after I begun using them. I would consider this long enough period for the problem to resurface.
> Do you mind checking if the behavior of the voltages is the same during power on and reboot?
> I don't really expect it to be different but it's the only other thing I can think of.
Click to expand...

 all good dude. did some more testing. the boot voltages set in asus bios in the digi+ section only get applied when starting a system from a powered off state and it only lasts about a second or two. so if you set a boot voltage of 1.30v sa/io and hit the power on button of ur system for the initial second or two when the system turns on is when those voltages get applied. happens very quick. its like a spike. like ur systen gets blasted with those boot voltages for a second or two and immediately comes down and then starts the post cycle. when rebooting they dont get applied and voltages remain constant during a reboot. boot voltages seem to only benefit if your running your system super cold under ln2. that initial spike helps the cpu boot when under extreme cold.


----------



## Grizzly111

Thank you Thrashzone - you are awesome!


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> Guys, I'm trying to choose between two Gskill products: either 4x matched DIMMS of 8GB 3600Mhz CL16-16-16 DDR4 [F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS] or 2x separate sets of 4000Mhz CL17-17-17 [F4-4000C17D-16GTRS].
> 
> Is there much advantage of going for the 4 matched DIMMS but dropping speed & latency vs the 2 sets of the better binned DIMMS (both total 32GB) on a Z390 Aorus Master?


I found this post from @KedarWolf using some 3600MHz CL16 G.skill on a Master https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-986.html#post28076298
He seems to get some excellent results 

I think I remember @Jpmboy saying they were almost the same but slightly better timings than the 3200MHz CL14 G.skill


----------



## Grizzly111

Thank you so much @munternet


----------



## Imprezzion

I got the system with the 3600-16-19-19 up and running and just as I expected XMP doesn't work at all on the Z390 Elite and 9600K. It sets IO/SA voltages SO high the CPU won't even pass 5 minutes of prime without dropping threads and going mental.. 

Manually dailed in memory on stock settings (with a bit lower tRFC) on 1.35v DRAM, set CPU to 5.0Ghz core, 4.5Ghz cache, LLC Medium, +0.050 DVID, 1.05 IO 1.15 SA, works perfectly fine. VR VOut around 1.236v fully loaded, temps low 70's in AVX Prime95 small, fine with me..

I'll play with the RAM later after a week of him playing BFV to test the general CPU OC.


----------



## kongasdf

l Nuke l said:


> okay so besides the occasional 55 and 49 when booting that I can just hit the retry button on the mobo to post through. Could prob bump IO/SA some more to resolve this but its whatever retry works. I think Ive got my 24/7 oc dialed in pretty good. rams @ 4400mhz cl17 18 18 38 328 1T, cpu core @ 5.3ghz, cache @ 5.0ghz. stable for two hours with hci memtest, gsat, realbench and aida64 cache test.


Hi, quick question, why can not MT7.0 display the MB/s in my system?

Oh, please ignore it. It updated on 12/9. And it can be displayed normally at present


----------



## robertr1

Tuned the RAM to a good balance for 24/7 usage. Overall really happy with the board but wish I had a better bin of bdie:

Voltages: 
IO = 1.25v
SA = 1.275v
DRAM = 1.5v
CPU = 1.32v llc 6. 52 core 47 uncore


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Imprezzion

How is your latency a full 1.5ns lower then mine on higher timings with less cache speed haha..

I run a 9900K @ 5.1 core 4.8 cache, 4200 memory 16-17-17 timings with tighter subtimings and RTL and still barely manage 37.5ns.

Is my OS so bloated haha?


----------



## robertr1

Imprezzion said:


> How is your latency a full 1.5ns lower then mine on higher timings with less cache speed haha..
> 
> I run a 9900K @ 5.1 core 4.8 cache, 4200 memory 16-17-17 timings with tighter subtimings and RTL and still barely manage 37.5ns.
> 
> Is my OS so bloated haha?


Can you link your settings?

This isn't a bench OS. it's my daily system with the usual w10 bloat!

@reachthesky thanks! took a few weeks to learn the quirks of Asus but got there in the end.


----------



## gecko991

Solid Ram there. I am currently running Gkills F4 3600 C16 at 3850 no problems on an Asus Prime with a 9700K. My next build is a 9900KS with either 4266 or 4600 on a Taichi ultimate.


----------



## Imprezzion

robertr1 said:


> Can you link your settings?
> 
> This isn't a bench OS. it's my daily system with the usual w10 bloat!
> 
> @reachthesky thanks! took a few weeks to learn the quirks of Asus but got there in the end.


I'm at work so I don't have access to my screenshots here.

I run 4200Mhz CL16-17-17-28-280-CR2 with 12 tWR, tCWL, 6 tRTP, 4 tCKE, straight 14's for tWRWR's, 24-19 for tWRRD, tRRD L and S 6 and 4, tFAW 16, tWTR 8 and 3 (Auto, controlled by tWRWR), tREFI 46800.

RTL/IO initial 65/65/1/1 with 24 offset, trains at 60/61/3/4.

Tested with 2000% pass HCI 12GB, 8 hours of Prime95 Blend 12GB, 8 hours of small FFT AVX/FMA3 enabled for CPU testing, and many many hours of gaming.

CPU: 5.1Ghz core 4.8Ghz cache HT enabled.
Voltages: +0.100 offset CPU for 1.248v VR VOut
IO/SA: 1.30/1.25v (or the other way around, whichever is 0.95 stock is 1.25)
DRAM: 1.55v

DIMM's run in the mid 40's in terms of temps.


----------



## Jpmboy

robertr1 said:


> Tuned the RAM to a good balance for 24/7 usage. Overall really happy with the board but wish I had a better bin of bdie:
> 
> Voltages:
> IO = 1.25v
> SA = 1.275v
> DRAM = 1.5v
> CPU = 1.32v llc 6. 52 core 47 uncore


do you have any stability data per the OP?


----------



## ThrashZone

Grizzly111 said:


> Thank you Thrashzone - you are awesome!


Hi,
You're welcome although you didn't quote what helped you otherwise yes DRI is awesome


----------



## robertr1

Jpmboy said:


> do you have any stability data per the OP?


TM5 extreme profile full run (3 passes). occt large/avx2 2 hours. x264 stress test.


----------



## robertr1

@Imprezzion I'm on 1T and in my testing, the difference was notable between 1T and 2T with latency being a key point. I'd imagine there's a difference between boards and aida versions also. I'm on an older version since it's the full paid one but it does make it consistent to compare to my old pro board which is nice for me. 

On another note, some with keen eyes might notice that my trrd_s/_l/tfaw aren't the usual 4/6/16. 

These three settings I found to be the culprit in me needing to bump up vcore to make them stable. X264 stress test exposed this the easiest out of all of them because it's quick to puke up L0 errors in hwinfo64. Once I caught onto it, I started testing different combinations. Going from xmp of 18-19-19/4000 1.35v to my posted settings needed 10mv extra. However going from my posted settings to 4/6/16 for tfaw and friends needed another 20mv! 

When I did benchmarks I couldn't find any that showed me a notable difference that made it worth keeping the tighter settings at the cost of +20mv. On a 9900k every MV counts  

Now this might be specific to my combination of devices but I'd be curious to see if anyone else experienced such. 

xmp = baseline
tfaw tuned with 6/8/24 = +10mv vcore over baseline
tfaw tuned with 5/7/20 = +20mv vcore over baseline
tfaw tuned with 4/6/16 = +30mv vcore over baseline


----------



## Jpmboy

robertr1 said:


> TM5 extreme profile full run (3 passes). occt large/avx2 2 hours. x264 stress test.


 what's TM5?
Anyway, any RAM specific test such as GSAT or HCiMemtest? OCCT and x264 realy do not load the ram like GSAT or similar memory tests.
Absent a real memory stress test, it's wishful. 


RamTest is easy and quick. GSAT requires you enable the windows linux subsystem (also easy)


----------



## robertr1

Jpmboy said:


> what's TM5?
> Anyway, any RAM specific test such as GSAT or HCiMemtest? OCCT and x264 realy do not load the ram like GSAT or similar memory tests.
> Absent a real memory stress test, it's wishful.
> 
> 
> RamTest is easy and quick. GSAT requires you enable the windows linux subsystem (also easy)


https://www.overclock.net/forum/27577522-post2594.html what TM5 is

Extreme profile:https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md scroll down

Watch the dram power draw. It's one of the highest at pulling this off.


----------



## Jpmboy

robertr1 said:


> https://www.overclock.net/forum/27577522-post2594.html what TM5 is
> 
> Extreme profile:https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md scroll down
> 
> Watch the dram power draw. It's one of the highest at pulling this off.


yeah - I beta tested it. Not as thorough as GSAT IMO. But better than nothing. :thumb:


----------



## swddeluxx

Jpmboy said:


> yeah - I beta tested it. Not as thorough as GSAT IMO. But better than nothing. :thumb:


You're right *Jpmboy* !

*GSAT* is best of the best to test Memory overclocking :specool:

TM5 is good (with better *usmus v3 Config*) but *HCI MemTest* (or *Karchu*) is better as *TM5*

*TM5* with *usmus v3 Configs* - one for Desktop Systems and one for HEDT Systems

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17u_88vsjraTDw5_wI6gJY05peEicbBsQ


----------



## robertr1

Jpmboy said:


> yeah - I beta tested it. Not as thorough as GSAT IMO. But better than nothing. :thumb:












Not sure if you tried the extreme profile but it's a lot more stress inducing than the standard TM5 which I personally don't care much for.


----------



## swddeluxx

robertr1 said:


> Not sure if you tried the extreme profile but it's a lot more stress inducing than the standard TM5 which I personally don't care much for.



*robertr1*

If you will test yor RAM with TM5 than better test it with *usmus v3* config! It loads your ram very much but is faster and more effective for finding wrong timings.
anta777 extreme config takes a very long time but finds fewer errors.


----------



## robertr1

swddeluxx said:


> *robertr1*
> 
> If you will test yor RAM with TM5 than better test it with *usmus v3* config! It loads your ram very much but is faster and more effective for finding wrong timings.
> anta777 extreme config takes a very long time but finds fewer errors.


Thank you. I'll try that config and report back. 

Here is the extreme config for now:


----------



## Falkentyne

robertr1 said:


> @Imprezzion I'm on 1T and in my testing, the difference was notable between 1T and 2T with latency being a key point. I'd imagine there's a difference between boards and aida versions also. I'm on an older version since it's the full paid one but it does make it consistent to compare to my old pro board which is nice for me.
> 
> On another note, some with keen eyes might notice that my trrd_s/_l/tfaw aren't the usual 4/6/16.
> 
> These three settings I found to be the culprit in me needing to bump up vcore to make them stable. X264 stress test exposed this the easiest out of all of them because it's quick to puke up L0 errors in hwinfo64. Once I caught onto it, I started testing different combinations. Going from xmp of 18-19-19/4000 1.35v to my posted settings needed 10mv extra. However going from my posted settings to 4/6/16 for tfaw and friends needed another 20mv!
> 
> When I did benchmarks I couldn't find any that showed me a notable difference that made it worth keeping the tighter settings at the cost of +20mv. On a 9900k every MV counts
> 
> Now this might be specific to my combination of devices but I'd be curious to see if anyone else experienced such.
> 
> xmp = baseline
> tfaw tuned with 6/8/24 = +10mv vcore over baseline
> tfaw tuned with 5/7/20 = +20mv vcore over baseline
> tfaw tuned with 4/6/16 = +30mv vcore over baseline


Interesting. I'll mess around with this. Something more to do!
@robertr1
Why do you have DMI voltage at 1.25v? 
Isn't that DMI PLL/PEG or something? I thought that defaults to 1.05 ?


----------



## robertr1

@Falkentyne probably just didn't manually set it on that bios profile. By default it seems to track vccio for some reason.


----------



## Falkentyne

robertr1 said:


> @Falkentyne probably just didn't manually set it on that bios profile. By default it seems to track vccio for some reason.


No change in latency going to 6/8/24 vs 4/6/16 on mine so that's good
Maybe minor reduction in bandwidth (300-400 points?). Unable to test vcore floor easily or even consistently on Gigabyte's flaky Bios, things can literally change boot to boot.

I'm only at 3200 mhz however.

Maybe you can test something for me.
But it's going to be time consuming and you're going to turn into The Hulk if I ask you.

Can you see if you still need the vcore increase at 4/6/16 (compared to 6/8/24) if you have hyperthreading disabled? (HT disabled will usually give you about 100 mhz bin, or a significant vcore decrease)).
I wonder if this affects the L0 register store (part of virtualized instructions for hyperthreading).


----------



## robertr1

@Falkentyne i'll test it next week but i'm doing a 24/7 uptime run for a week while using it normally to make sure it's all good. i'll be sure to do that HT off test and come back to you.


----------



## Grizzly111

Guys, I found these (2x8gb) sticks and was looking at the viability of buying 2 sets of them for my Aorus Master T-Topology board....Teamgroup Xtreem 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 1.4V. 



Just want to confirm: would it present an issue buying 2 sets of these to make up 32gb as they don't do matched sets of 4 sticks? Or does it not really matter so much these days with DDR4 to buy matched sets?


----------



## Jpmboy

Grizzly111 said:


> Guys, I found these (2x8gb) sticks and was looking at the viability of buying 2 sets of them for my Aorus Master T-Topology board....Teamgroup Xtreem 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 1.4V.
> Just want to confirm: would it present an issue buying 2 sets of these to make up 32gb as they don't do matched sets of 4 sticks? Or does it not really matter so much these days with DDR4 to buy matched sets?


It is a bit of a crapshoot. If you rely on XMP, I advise against it. Manual tuning - even to run at the rated speed - will likely be necessary. Lot's of folsk here to help tho...


----------



## Grizzly111

Jpmboy said:


> It is a bit of a crapshoot. If you rely on XMP, I advise against it. Manual tuning - even to run at the rated speed - will likely be necessary. Lot's of folsk here to help tho...



Appreciate the support! I'd only use XMP to establish the baseline then manually change timings (likely tighten to 17). So if I manually change timings and voltage it wouldn't matter if I didnt get a quad matching set right?


----------



## Imprezzion

@robertr1 yeah 1T is a total no-go on my board / RAM combo even if it's only 2 DIMM's. I can do 1T up to 3200Mhz but that's the end of it and 1T on 3200 requires BCLK OC as the 3200 divider won't do it but with 3000 and a BCLK OC it will...

I'll try a higher tRRD / tFAW combination and see what my CPU will do in Prime95 AVX. I know exactly what it needs for 5.1/4.8 and also 5.2/4.8 HT on. I need +0.100 offset for 5.1 and +0.180 for 5.2 and 5.2 is stable but too hot. Can't properly keep it cool in AVX workloads and I prefer to run without AVX offsets. 5.1 hits low 80's in Prime95 AVX but 5.2 goes into the high 80's to low 90's and with this relatively low ambient temp it will go well into the 100's in the summer.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

swddeluxx said:


> You're right *Jpmboy* !
> 
> *GSAT* is best of the best to test Memory overclocking :specool:
> 
> TM5 is good (with better *usmus v3 Config*) but *HCI MemTest* (or *Karchu*) is better as *TM5*
> 
> *TM5* with *usmus v3 Configs* - one for Desktop Systems and one for HEDT Systems
> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17u_88vsjraTDw5_wI6gJY05peEicbBsQ



i dont like gsat its not 100%.. i pass gsat like is nothing then i throw it at HCI (best one) and ramtest and it fail. If it dont test cache+ram like HCI then to me is worthless "OTHER THAN THAT SUBSTITUE GSAT WITH RAMTEST.." gsat its ok for been free and quick dirty overclocks not for 100% reliability ramtest its a better choice, then you wondering why your overclocks fail later and cant point out the ram+cache errors XD


----------



## robertr1

zGunBLADEz said:


> i dont like gsat its not 100%.. i pass gsat like is nothing then i throw it at HCI (best one) and ramtest and it fail. If it dont test cache+ram like HCI then to me is worthless "OTHER THAN THAT SUBSTITUE GSAT WITH RAMTEST.." gsat its ok for been free and quick dirty overclocks not for 100% reliability ramtest its a better choice, then you wondering why your overclocks fail later and cant point out the ram+cache errors XD


That’s exactly why I use occt large/avx2 because it’ll tease out cache and cross subsystem errors quickly. 

X264 is then added to confirm vcore is adequate. 

In short, there are a lot of different tools available that people can use to validate and just one is rarely enough.


----------



## Timur Born

OCCT Small detect cache errors within minutes (sometimes seconds). Karhu detects memory errors faster than HCI in my experience, but both need to be run for hours and hours to make sure (I had errors over 15000% in Karhu and over 1500% in HCI). It's about test time, not test percentage.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

robertr1 said:


> Thatâ€™️s exactly why I use occt large/avx2 because itâ€™️ll tease out cache and cross subsystem errors quickly.
> 
> X264 is then added to confirm vcore is adequate.
> 
> In short, there are a lot of different tools available that people can use to validate and just one is rarely enough.


In some cases i would not run p95 or occt small on a HCC cpu with a big power draw even that i changed the way i stress test cpus because of power draw alone and unrealistic scenarios and headaches.



Timur Born said:


> OCCT Small detect cache errors within minutes (sometimes seconds). Karhu detects memory errors faster than HCI in my experience, but both need to be run for hours and hours to make sure (I had errors over 15000% in Karhu and over 1500% in HCI). It's about test time, not test percentage.


This, have to give a chance to the ram to warm up. I can chew over quick %s on hci on a 7980xe CPU like its nothing...


----------



## Grizzly111

Question: like for like (eg: Trident Z RGB vs Trident Z), does NON-RGB RAM overclock better?


----------



## Imprezzion

Grizzly111 said:


> Question: like for like (eg: Trident Z RGB vs Trident Z), does NON-RGB RAM overclock better?


Technically yes, non-RGB clocks better as the RGB lighting slightly impacts voltage and power draw from the DIMM slot however, a bad bin Trident Z clocks worse than a good bin Trident Z RGB. The lottery still applies.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Imprezzion said:


> Technically yes, non-RGB clocks better as the RGB lighting slightly impacts voltage and power draw from the DIMM slot however, a bad bin Trident Z clocks worse than a good bin Trident Z RGB. The lottery still applies.


Also rgb adds heat the brighter the color to "white'ish" the more watts pull & heat adds...
recommended to turn lights off when heavy testing them XD


----------



## Imprezzion

zGunBLADEz said:


> Also rgb adds heat the brighter the color to "white'ish" the more watts pull & heat adds...
> recommended to turn lights off when heavy testing them XD


Honestly I never do that when testing cause in daily usage and on a LAN I want my RGB to work and I don't wanna get instability because I didn't test with the lights on lol.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

in daily usage you aint seeing those temps. Not gaming or nothing like that. just on heavily/stress type of situations. My setup have 2x60mm fans to help cool my vrms and in the same process to cool all 4 dimms slots of ram on my Micro2 x299.

This is what happen when i run them without active cooling and "white rgb [static] tridents-z" on HCI for an 5hr+ run (opened hwinfo to record the temp changes 4hrs into test... luckily was testing my ram as we speak) and my case is open both sides right now (TT VT20) @ 1.45mV

almost what?? 15c difference with no lights and not active cooling on a 75F ambient XD

RGB looks cool and all but "it dont add frames" what will do it will add unwanted heat XD


----------



## Grizzly111

Well guys I decided to order a set of plain non-RGB F4-3600C16Q-32GTZ! Looking forward to getting it running to its optimum.


----------



## daniel audanie

I see a lot of B-die but very little CJR. Just dialed in a new overclock at 3900 at the same voltage as my 3600 cl14 profile. This stuff can really push it for the price. 

https://imgur.com/a/5xz1wZr


----------



## Jpmboy

daniel audanie said:


> I see a lot of B-die but very little CJR. Just dialed in a new overclock at 3900 at the same voltage as my 3600 cl14 profile. This stuff can really push it for the price.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/5xz1wZr


post up a snip of the CPUZ "SPD" tab. :thumb:


----------



## Speedster159

Is memory prices really forecasted to increase in prices? And if so by how much?


----------



## daniel audanie

Jpmboy said:


> post up a snip of the CPUZ "SPD" tab. :thumb:


https://i.imgur.com/hWROxrc.png

There ya go.


----------



## Jpmboy

daniel audanie said:


> https://i.imgur.com/hWROxrc.png
> 
> There ya go.


thx. was wondering what kit it was>


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Imprezzion

So far the lower tRRD / tFAW doesn't do anything good for my CPU voltages. That could be because my cache is running quite on the edge of stability at 4.8Ghz. I tried +0.080 in stead of +0.100 and it BSOD with a system_service_exception BSOD after like 2 hours of borderlands 3 which isn't very CPU intensive so.

I'm going to see if I can get away with tREFI 65xxx on 280 tRFC on 4200Mhz lol. I ran 46800 (x3 the Auto setting) for a while and that is stable but I really doubt I can get away with maxing it on such a low tRFC for the frequency lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> So far the lower tRRD / tFAW doesn't do anything good for my CPU voltages. That could be because my cache is running quite on the edge of stability at 4.8Ghz. I tried +0.080 in stead of +0.100 and it BSOD with a system_service_exception BSOD after like 2 hours of borderlands 3 which isn't very CPU intensive so.
> 
> I'm going to see if I can get away with tREFI 65xxx on 280 tRFC on 4200Mhz lol. I ran 46800 (x3 the Auto setting) for a while and that is stable but I really doubt I can get away with maxing it on such a low tRFC for the frequency lol.


Try increasing VTT (CPU Termination Voltage / PLL Termination voltage) to 1.20 (1.30v max).

Asus calls this "PLL Termination". Gigabyte calls this "VCC VTT". No idea what Asrock calls it. I "think" MSI calls it PLL2 voltage (the one that is NOT 1.20v or 1.25v at default), unless it's PLL1 voltage.
Or maybe Asrock calls it that. I don't know. I'm pretty sure MSI has it. 

If you set it to 1.20v and get a Clock Watchdog Timeout, you changed the wrong one (probably CPU PLL, which must be 150mv or greater distance from CPU PLL OC Voltage).

This is not the same as CPU PLL Voltage (or CPU PLL OC Voltage, which must be at least 150mv higher than CPU PLL Voltage; Asus calls this 'OC' voltage PLL Bandwidth, but it's set as a voltage. No one in the universe knows what "OC" stands for. Even Intel has it listed in their spec sheets and calls it "PLL_OC Voltage").


----------



## Gen.

I changed my F4-3000C14D-16GTZR to F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK. Got the following results (see screenshot below). Is it possible to raise the memory frequencies higher somehow so that I remain stable?
4000 - F4-3000C14D-16GTZR.
4133 - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK.


----------



## Intrud3r

daniel audanie said:


> I see a lot of B-die but very little CJR. Just dialed in a new overclock at 3900 at the same voltage as my 3600 cl14 profile. This stuff can really push it for the price.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/5xz1wZr


My Hynix A-die's for comparison. Running this 24/7


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> I changed my F4-3000C14D-16GTZR to F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK. Got the following results (see screenshot below). Is it possible to raise the memory frequencies higher somehow so that I remain stable?
> 4000 - F4-3000C14D-16GTZR.
> 4133 - F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK.


Looks good 
Have you tried contacting @KedarWolf. He is very helpful and spent a LOT of time overclocking ram with this board.
Even if you search this thread for his posts you should find some good info


----------



## daniel audanie

Intrud3r said:


> My Hynix A-die's for comparison. Running this 24/7


Nice! I wonder why your latency is worse even though you're running 100mhz higher and better timings. I could never get my tfaw that low.


----------



## Zemach

PATRIOT VIPER STEEL DDR4 16 GB BUS 4400 (8X2)


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## lucasfrance

Intrud3r said:


> My Hynix A-die's for comparison. Running this 24/7


Great! What are your VCCIO, SA and DRAM voltages?

EDIT: I found them in your signature sorry


----------



## BradleyW

It's funny how I can pass GSAT overnight but I can't pass a few rounds of COD Ground War without adding extra VCCIO/SA. I require 1.245v for each to sustain 4000MHz. I'm not sure if the software is accurate so I'm worried those voltages could be higher and I'm not sure what the safe limit is.


----------



## Gen.

Zemach said:


> PATRIOT VIPER STEEL DDR4 16 GB BUS 4400 (8X2)


Do not use 4800 due to excessive SA & IO, use please 4600.

For 4600 use the correct timings:
tRAS=38
tRC=55
tRFC=376 or down (-8 only)
tWTR_L=8 (tWR/2)
tWTR_S= may be 4
tRTP=8 (tWR/2)
tFAW=16 (tRRD_S*4 min or tRRD_L*4)
ALL dr/dg=0
tRDWR_sg=11
tRDWR_dg=11
tWRRD_sg=30
tWRRD_dg=26 (if tWTR_S= may be 4)

Also try lowering the voltage (first to memory, then IO, then SA).


----------



## sword fan

Ok, finally back after stupid life getting in the way for a bit...3800 15-15-15-35 was no go without more voltage and higher temps than I wanted to run 24/7 so I'm back at 3600 trying to tighten things up as much as possible. Looking pretty good at 14-15-15-30 so far with 1.45 vdimm 1.28-1.296 sa & vcc (cpu is 8700k 4.9/4.7 1.37 vcore LLC 6). 8 runs of Memtest86 & 1500% HCI memtest so far. I feel like my latency should be lower at this point. Any suggestions or comments?


----------



## Gen.

sword fan said:


> Ok, finally back after stupid life getting in the way for a bit...3800 15-15-15-35 was no go without more voltage and higher temps than I wanted to run 24/7 so I'm back at 3600 trying to tighten things up as much as possible. Looking pretty good at 14-15-15-30 so far with 1.45 vdimm 1.28-1.296 sa & vcc (cpu is 8700k 4.9/4.7 1.37 vcore LLC 6). 8 runs of Memtest86 & 1500% HCI memtest so far. I feel like my latency should be lower at this point. Any suggestions or comments?


Please Thaiphoon Burner screen. I can help you in overclock dram.


----------



## Intrud3r

lucasfrance said:


> Great! What are your VCCIO, SA and DRAM voltages?
> 
> EDIT: I found them in your signature sorry


Thank you for looking at the provided information 

And for all your information ... I try to keep my signature as up to date as possible.


----------



## Zemach

4800 CL 17 18 38 1.580 IO 1.40 SA 1.50
4700 CL 17 17 28 1.550 IO 1.35 SA 1.40
4600 CL 17 17 28 1.540 IO 1.30 SA 1.35


----------



## eminded1

Zemach said:


> 4800 CL 17 18 38 1.580 IO 1.40 SA 1.50
> 4700 CL 17 17 28 1.550 IO 1.35 SA 1.40
> 4600 CL 17 17 28 1.540 IO 1.30 SA 1.35


iv got 4x8gb ddr4 4400 patioit viper dims and I cant get them to run above 4266 I cant even boot at 4400... any pointers on how I can boot at 4400.. I currently have my ram set at 4266mhz at 1.5 volts sa is 1.31 and io is 1.29 dmi is 1.1

How can I boot above 4266 the ram I have is b die....

the timings I have which aare 100% stable at 4266 are 17 18 18 38 2t @ 1.5vdimm


----------



## Jpmboy

Zemach said:


> 4800 CL 17 18 38 1.580 IO 1.40 SA 1.50
> 4700 CL 17 17 28 1.550 IO 1.35 SA 1.40
> 4600 CL 17 17 28 1.540 IO 1.30 SA 1.35


some crazy looking RTLs and IOLs on 2 of those... :thumb:


----------



## Nizzen

Zemach said:


> 4800 CL 17 18 38 1.580 IO 1.40 SA 1.50
> 4700 CL 17 17 28 1.550 IO 1.35 SA 1.40
> 4600 CL 17 17 28 1.540 IO 1.30 SA 1.35


Pleace post Aida memorybenchmark 

Love from Nizzen


----------



## Zemach

Aida 64


----------



## Nizzen

Zemach said:


> Aida 64


Tnx! Some epic results here!


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

BradleyW said:


> It's funny how I can pass GSAT overnight but I can't pass a few rounds of COD Ground War without adding extra VCCIO/SA. I require 1.245v for each to sustain 4000MHz. I'm not sure if the software is accurate so I'm worried those voltages could be higher and I'm not sure what the safe limit is.


 safe bet is hci xD


----------



## BradleyW

zGunBLADEz said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how I can pass GSAT overnight but I can't pass a few rounds of COD Ground War without adding extra VCCIO/SA. I require 1.245v for each to sustain 4000MHz. I'm not sure if the software is accurate so I'm worried those voltages could be higher and I'm not sure what the safe limit is.
> 
> 
> 
> safe bet is hci xD
Click to expand...

Interestingly I find GSAT to find errors when other programs such as hci and ram test do not.


----------



## munternet

BradleyW said:


> Interestingly I find GSAT to find errors when other programs such as hci and ram test do not.


^^ Me too. I can pass HCI overnight and still crash in BFV fairly quickly.
GSAT works for me. I run it from USB. Still trying to work out how to run it from windows. I have linux enabled and I think I installed stressapptest but not sure exactly how to run it. Is there a simple tutorial for dummies somewhere


----------



## Jpmboy

After enabling ubuntu:

"sudo upgrade"
"sudo apt-get install stressapptest"
"sudo apt update stressapptest"

should be all that's needed... but there folks here much more knowledgeable about linux than I.


----------



## BradleyW

munternet said:


> BradleyW said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly I find GSAT to find errors when other programs such as hci and ram test do not.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ Me too. I can pass HCI overnight and still crash in BFV fairly quickly.
> GSAT works for me. I run it from USB. Still trying to work out how to run it from windows. I have linux enabled and I think I installed stressapptest but not sure exactly how to run it. Is there a simple tutorial for dummies somewhere /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Click to expand...

Same here too, I can pass GSAT but COD Ground War may crash, needing more VCCIO and VCCSA voltage to resolve.


----------



## robalm

BradleyW said:


> Same here too, I can pass GSAT but COD Ground War may crash, needing more VCCIO and VCCSA voltage to resolve.


Can it be the temps, or crash random?
Whats the temp ingame?


----------



## BradleyW

Isn't random. Always crashes if the voltages are below a certain point. RAM is around 32c in-game.


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> After enabling ubuntu:
> 
> "sudo upgrade"
> "sudo apt-get install stressapptest"
> "sudo apt update stressapptest"
> 
> should be all that's needed... but there folks here much more knowledgeable about linux than I.


Linux hates me 

Edit: I think I didn't "sudo apt-get update"
That made some stuff happen 

Edit 2: I think I progressed but still not happening


----------



## chibi

munternet said:


> Linux hates me
> 
> Edit: I think I didn't "sudo apt-get update"
> That made some stuff happen
> 
> Edit 2: I think I progressed but still not happening


Are you entering an amount of ram to test? For 16GB, this is my go to parameter:

stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400


----------



## munternet

chibi said:


> Are you entering an amount of ram to test? For 16GB, this is my go to parameter:
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400


Yeah, cheers, I just worked that out 
What is the --pause_delay 14400 for?

I also entered "sudo apt get" and I think I just installed a ****load of other stuff


----------



## chibi

munternet said:


> Yeah, cheers, I just worked that out
> What is the --pause_delay 14400 for?
> 
> I also entered "sudo apt get" and I think I just installed a ****load of other stuff



GSAT will occasionally pause the threads for load step testing. It will look something like below:

Log: Seconds remaining: 1200
Log: Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (1200 seconds remaining)
Log: Seconds remaining: 1190
Log: Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (1185 seconds remaining)
Log: Seconds remaining: 1180

To bypass completely, you enter a longer pause delay (2x test time), or shorter if you want more frequent load step testing. As for what the load step testing does, I'm not sure.


----------



## munternet

chibi said:


> GSAT will occasionally pause the threads for load step testing. It will look something like below:
> 
> Log: Seconds remaining: 1200
> Log: Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (1200 seconds remaining)
> Log: Seconds remaining: 1190
> Log: Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (1185 seconds remaining)
> Log: Seconds remaining: 1180
> 
> To bypass completely, you enter a longer pause delay (2x test time), or shorter if you want more frequent load step testing. As for what the load step testing does, I'm not sure.


Thanks for the info.
I don't mind the power spikes in the test although I've never had a problem with them.
A tutorial on installing linux on windows right through to running the test commands step by step would be real helpful.
I would do it but I'm barely able to install and run it myself 
Thanks for the help guys 

Edit: How do I make the memtest just show the summary/results window instead of this...? or is Karhu ram test better? oh...it's pay


----------



## The Pook

should be able to use WSL on Windows 10, there's guides all over the place for it. 

might be marginally easier to set up a VM in VM Player though (same process as installing an OS, just while you're booted into an OS) and should get you to the same end result. Just make sure your VM can access enough RAM to span across all of your sticks.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I don't mind the power spikes in the test although I've never had a problem with them.
> A tutorial on installing linux on windows right through to running the test commands step by step would be real helpful.
> I would do it but I'm barely able to install and run it myself
> Thanks for the help guys
> 
> Edit: How do I make the memtest just show the summary/results window instead of this...? or is Karhu ram test better? oh...it's pay


There's a verbosity command somewhere, but for our short tests you DO want to be able to see the error type.
you can stop the "spikes" buy using "-- pause delay T+1" as shown in the command below. Spikes, are not spikes at all - remember, this is what Google uses to validate huge server farms, so if there is a synchronization between nodes during a cycle, even a pause is a spike elsewhere, now multiply that by 500!
"stressapptest -W -M 57344 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700" this is for 64GB of ram. Use 12288 for 16GB
once you get Ubuntu implemented in windows (easy - just google it  ) then use the upgrade and get apt commands I posted above.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

BradleyW said:


> Interestingly I find GSAT to find errors when other programs such as hci and ram test do not.


i have used gsat in both amd and intel and i find it easy to pass, HCI needs a good time run to come up with errors dont go with percentage i usually let it overnight so it warms everything pretty good XD

EDIT:
somebody here put gsat on a self boot usb stick that you can run only by itself just need to type the cmds and here she goes


Edit2: this is what i was cooking the other day when i posted the temps with RGB ON and OFF


Spoiler


----------



## ogider

for gsat i prefer add -M 12288( ram ammount for test 16GB).
*-M mbytes : megabytes of ram to test (auto-detect all memory available)

Sometimes instead of the actual RAM test it may end up testing the swap file


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> i have used gsat in both amd and intel and i find it easy to pass, HCI needs a good time run to come up with errors dont go with percentage i usually let it overnight so it warms everything pretty good XD
> EDIT:
> *somebody here put gsat on a self boot usb stick that you can run only by itself just need to type the cmds and here she goes*
> Edit2: this is what i was cooking the other day when i posted the temps with RGB ON and OFF
> 
> 
> Spoiler


"Puppy" linux is what that is. Works great and let's you use the stick across a bunch of rigs that need validation. For a single machine, windows linux (ubuntu) is easy, efficient and tests the ram thoroughly. If it passes GSAT, failures in other programs such as HCi or RamTest are likely problems outside the ram subsystem.


----------



## robalm

I tested the stresstest TM5 with [email protected]. Is it normal that the ram use dropps after about 5 min then go back up?


----------



## glocked89

Hello!


I was sent here from another thread.


10980xe 4.5,30 mesh, 32gb 3400 cl14. I cannot provide a screenshot at this moment, but I am sure I was in quad channel.



I was going through the aida64 benchmarks and my Photoworxx score was considerably lower at ~38800.


Attached is a screenshot of another 10980xe with similar specs but scoring considerably better.
I'd also like to add that the 16-core xeon 2670, 6-core 7800x, and 32-core threadripper as listed examples in the attachment all scored similarly while having varying core counts and memory speed/timings.



My question is, *is only having 32gb total ram affecting my score? Do you think the system in the attachment is using 64 gb and scoring better because of it?*


----------



## zGunBLADEz

glocked89 said:


> Hello!
> 
> 
> I was sent here from another thread.
> 
> 
> 10980xe 4.5,30 mesh, 32gb 3400 cl14. I cannot provide a screenshot at this moment, but I am sure I was in quad channel.
> 
> 
> 
> I was going through the aida64 benchmarks and my Photoworxx score was considerably lower at ~38800.
> 
> 
> Attached is a screenshot of another 10980xe with similar specs but scoring considerably better.
> I'd also like to add that the 16-core xeon 2670, 6-core 7800x, and 32-core threadripper as listed examples in the attachment all scored similarly while having varying core counts and memory speed/timings.
> 
> 
> 
> My question is, *is only having 32gb total ram affecting my score? Do you think the system in the attachment is using 64 gb and scoring better because of it?*


 no, the 64gb its not the reason. I use 32gb myself if you look at the pic me and jpm posted on the other topic you will see those particular scores..


----------



## Jpmboy

glocked89 said:


> Hello!
> I was sent here from another thread.
> 10980xe 4.5,30 mesh, 32gb 3400 cl14. I cannot provide a screenshot at this moment, but I am sure I was in quad channel.
> I was going through the aida64 benchmarks and my Photoworxx score was considerably lower at ~38800.
> Attached is a screenshot of another 10980xe with similar specs but scoring considerably better.
> I'd also like to add that the 16-core xeon 2670, 6-core 7800x, and 32-core threadripper as listed examples in the attachment all scored similarly while having varying core counts and memory speed/timings.
> My question is, *is only having 32gb total ram affecting my score? Do you think the system in the attachment is using 64 gb and scoring better because of it?*


grab a copy of asrock Timing configurator v4.0.4. install it and post up a snip with CPUZ open to the "SPD" tab.
The difference is not because of the amount of installed ram, but I'm betting your ram is either configured in an unstable way, or there is a timing clash.
are you using XMP? Have you tested the stability?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

That app asrock timing config, still dont work on my evga micro2 tried a few different versions same outcome 😕 lucky i found the asus one which works and she do grab the right timings.


----------



## swddeluxx

robalm said:


> I tested the stresstest TM5 with [email protected]. Is it normal that the ram use dropps after about 5 min then go back up?


If you will test your Ram with TM5 than test it with better *usmus v3 Config*


you can download TM5 with this config inkl. from the Link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17u_88vsjraTDw5_wI6gJY05peEicbBsQ

*usmus* is Developer from Ryzen DRAM Calculator


----------



## robalm

swddeluxx said:


> If you will test your Ram with TM5 than test it with better *usmus v3 Config*
> 
> 
> you can download TM5 with this config inkl. from the Link:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17u_88vsjraTDw5_wI6gJY05peEicbBsQ
> 
> *usmus* is Developer from Ryzen DRAM Calculator


Ye i tested that one before i tested the extrem one but for some reason i could not get it to use more then 60% ram.
I changed 
"Testing Window Size (Mb)=880" to about 1700 x8 but it always use around 1000mb x8


----------



## robalm

I got it working now.


Interesting i get random error "usmus v3 Config" with sometime within 2 min 

========= TestMem5 Log File =========
Customize: Default @1usmus_v3
Start testing at 22:45, 1.7Gb x8
Error in test #4 through 2m 16s.

But i can pass HCI memtest easy.

The problem is that the errors are random can come after 10min with usmus v3 Config.
I lower TREFI and uper the TRFC. And more SA/IO, but still error.
I passed it with extra vram voltage (1.36v in windows), but i like to run 1.35v.
Any tips, maybe try 14 14 from 13 13?


----------



## Jpmboy

robalm said:


> I got it working now.
> 
> 
> Interesting i get random error "usmus v3 Config" with sometime within 2 min
> 
> ========= TestMem5 Log File =========
> Customize: Default @1usmus_v3
> Start testing at 22:45, 1.7Gb x8
> Error in test #4 through 2m 16s.
> 
> But i can pass HCI memtest easy.
> 
> The problem is that the errors are random can come after 10min with usmus v3 Config.
> I lower TREFI and uper the TRFC. And more SA/IO, but still error.
> I passed it with extra vram voltage (1.36v in windows), but i like to run 1.35v.
> Any tips, maybe try 14 14 from 13 13?


any voltage 1.45V and under is poutine and normal for DDR4 on that platform (even 1.5V is within range). Just run 1.36 or 1.375V and it's good. Remember, the VDIMM range is set by Intel (or AMD) and is in regards to the CPU OMC. The Ram sticks themselves easily handle 1.5V (and many get run at 1.9-2+V on a regular basis without any problems).


----------



## Gen.

robalm said:


> I got it working now.
> 
> 
> Interesting i get random error "usmus v3 Config" with sometime within 2 min
> 
> ========= TestMem5 Log File =========
> Customize: Default @1usmus_v3
> Start testing at 22:45, 1.7Gb x8
> Error in test #4 through 2m 16s.
> 
> But i can pass HCI memtest easy.
> 
> The problem is that the errors are random can come after 10min with usmus v3 Config.
> I lower TREFI and uper the TRFC. And more SA/IO, but still error.
> I passed it with extra vram voltage (1.36v in windows), but i like to run 1.35v.
> Any tips, maybe try 14 14 from 13 13?


tCL=13
tWR=12 (but!!! WRPRE=4+CWL+WR=4+12+12=28)
tRP=6 (but!!! RDPRE=RTP=6)
tWR+tRP - only ASUS Motherboard
tRRD_S=4
tRRD_L=4(6)
tWTR_S=4
tWTR_L=6
tRFC=280 (-8; Should be a multiple of 8, then lower)
tCWL=12
tREFI=49920
tCKE=8
all dr & dd=0
tRDWR_sg&dg=11 (tCL-tCWL)
tWRRD_sg=26 (tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L)
tWRRD_dg=22 (tWRRD_dg=6+tCWL+tWTR_S)


The rest is good. Welcome!


----------



## Pepillo

Months with memory configuration to 4,000 17-18-18-39 stable, yesterday I upgraded the MEI firmware of my motherboard to its latest version, and I had to raise the voltage from 1,395v to 1,415v in bios because it was no longer stable. It's funny, isn't it?


----------



## robalm

Jpmboy said:


> any voltage 1.45V and under is poutine and normal for DDR4 on that platform (even 1.5V is within range). Just run 1.36 or 1.375V and it's good. Remember, the VDIMM range is set by Intel (or AMD) and is in regards to the CPU OMC. The Ram sticks themselves easily handle 1.5V (and many get run at 1.9-2+V on a regular basis without any problems).


Thanks!
Im a "safe" guy  I will not risk any degradation on the cpu memory controller.



Gen. said:


> tCL=13
> tWR=12 (but!!! WRPRE=4+CWL+WR=4+12+12=28)
> tRP=6 (but!!! RDPRE=RTP=6)
> tWR+tRP - only ASUS Motherboard
> tRRD_S=4
> tRRD_L=4(6)
> tWTR_S=4
> tWTR_L=6
> tRFC=280 (-8; Should be a multiple of 8, then lower)
> tCWL=12
> tREFI=49920
> tCKE=8
> all dr & dd=0
> tRDWR_sg&dg=11 (tCL-tCWL)
> tWRRD_sg=26 (tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L)
> tWRRD_dg=22 (tWRRD_dg=6+tCWL+tWTR_S)
> 
> 
> The rest is good. Welcome!


Thank you very mutch.
I will look at it

tWR=12 (but!!! WRPRE=4+CWL+WR=4+12+12=28) @I will try that
tRP=6 (but!!! RDPRE=RTP=6) @Don't understand what you mean?
tWR+tRP - only ASUS Motherboard
tRRD_S=4
tRRD_L=4(6)
tWTR_S=4
tWTR_L=6
tRFC=280 (-8; Should be a multiple of 8, then lower) @I tested 280 with 1.35v but still got error in 1usmus_v3
tCWL=12 @ It's a no go for me, can't boot under 13
tREFI=49920 @ i think im already on the max, i tested some time ago with 43000 and gor error in HCI
tCKE=8
all dr & dd=0
tRDWR_sg&dg=11 (tCL-tCWL)
tWRRD_sg=26 (tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L)
tWRRD_dg=22 (tWRRD_dg=6+tCWL+tWTR_S)


----------



## robertr1

Last bit of tuning on this kit:











GSAT and TM5 extreme profile stable. Still at 1.25/1.27 io/sa and 1.5dram.


----------



## Gen.

*robalm*
DRAM 1.45V, IO 1.05 or lower, SA 1.10 or lower


----------



## Gen.

robertr1 said:


> Last bit of tuning on this kit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GSAT and TM5 extreme profile stable. Still at 1.25/1.27 io/sa and 1.5dram.


You have an incorrect memory setting, a lot of errors!
tRASmin=tCL+tRCD+2 or tRAS=tCL+tRCD+4
tRCD=tRP
tCR=1 or 2
tWR=tCL/2
tRTP=tWR/2
tWTR_L=tWR/2
tRFC=296 (-8; Should be a multiple of 8, then lower)
tREFI=7,8*4200=32760 for safe, 65520 it's good, but for frequencies more than 4000 it is possible to put a maximum, and not 65535, and 65534.
tFAW=4*tRRD_S or for safe 4*tRRD_L
tRRD_L=tRRD_S or tRRD_S+2
tCWL=tCL (or tCL -1...-4)
tCKE=8(6)
ALL dr & dd=0!
tRDRD_sg=6(7)
tRDRD_dg=4
tRDWR=tCL-tCWL
tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L
tWRRD_dg=6+tCWL+tWTR_S
tWRWR_sg=6(7)
tWRWR_dg=4

FOR ASUS:
tWR adjusting through WRPRE:
WRPRE=4+CWL+WR
RTP adjusting through RDPRE:
RDPRE=RTP


----------



## robertr1

Gen. said:


> You have an incorrect memory setting, a lot of errors!
> tRASmin=tCL+tRCD+2 or tRAS=tCL+tRCD+4
> tRCD=tRP
> tCR=1 or 2
> tWR=tCL/2
> tRTP=tWR/2
> tWTR_L=tWR/2
> tRFC=296 (-8; Should be a multiple of 8, then lower)
> tREFI=7,8*4200=32760 for safe, 65520 it's good, but for frequencies more than 4000 it is possible to put a maximum, and not 65535, and 65534.
> tFAW=4*tRRD_S or for safe 4*tRRD_L
> tRRD_L=tRRD_S or tRRD_S+2
> tCWL=tCL (or tCL -1...-4)
> tCKE=8(6)
> ALL dr & dd=0!
> tRDRD_sg=6(7)
> tRDRD_dg=4
> tRDWR=tCL-tCWL
> tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L
> tWRRD_dg=6+tCWL+tWTR_S
> tWRWR_sg=6(7)
> tWRWR_dg=4
> 
> FOR ASUS:
> tWR adjusting through WRPRE:
> WRPRE=4+CWL+WR
> RTP adjusting through RDPRE:
> RDPRE=RTP


Like this?


----------



## Gen.

*robertr1*
No!
tWR=16! 
WRPRE=4+CWL+WR=4+14+16=32
RDPRE=RTP=8
tWTR_L=8
tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L=28
tRDWR may be 13.

I am waiting for the display of the specified CORRECT timings, then you can still tweak the primary timings


----------



## robertr1

Gen. said:


> *robertr1*
> No!
> tWR=16!
> WRPRE=4+CWL+WR=4+14+16=32
> RDPRE=RTP=8
> tWTR_L=8
> tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L=28
> tRDWR may be 13.
> 
> I am waiting for the display of the specified CORRECT timings, then you can still tweak the primary timings












how's that?


----------



## munternet

Yours on the right. Lots of zeros 
tRFC is good if stable.
I'm just doing a compare, not really trying to show anything


----------



## Gen.

robertr1 said:


> how's that?


This is good! Tell me what set of RAM you have.

Try 4266 and 16-17-17-37-1T or 16-17-17-37-2T and tRRD_L=6 if not, try the same primary timings on 4200


----------



## robertr1

Gen. said:


> This is good! Tell me what set of RAM you have.
> 
> Try 4266 and 16-17-17-37-1T or 16-17-17-37-2T, if not, try the same primary timings on 4200


https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...4000mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-098-tg.html

This is my kit. xmp = 18-19-19/4000 1.35v


----------



## Gen.

*munternet*
This is normal. The dr timing affects the use of 2R modules. the dd Timing affects the use of 4 modules. Their value in 0 is put in order not to distract, and so, absolutely no difference what they are


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> *munternet*
> This is normal. The dr timing affects the use of 2R modules. the dd Timing affects the use of 4 modules. Their value in 0 is put in order not to distract, and so, absolutely no difference what they are


OK sweet. Same as I did with my RTLs and IO-Ls 

Edit:


----------



## Gen.

*munternet*
So correctly and made, well done.
But in General it is desirable not to remove it but to configure the RTL block correctly.
I'm from Russia, i use translate google, welcome!


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> *munternet*
> So correctly and made, well done.
> But in General it is desirable not to remove it but to configure the RTL block correctly.
> I'm from Russia, i use translate google, welcome!


Welcome yourself 
Is memory overclocking popular in Russia?


----------



## robertr1

@Gen. 

Can't boot 16-17-17-1T/2T at 4200 or 4266. Won't train.


----------



## Gen.

*robertr1*
Up tRFC to 360, tREFI 6553*4*, tRRD_L=6, tRDWR with tCL=16 equally 12 (tRDWR=12).


----------



## Gen.

*munternet*
I would not say that it is very popular, usually all use XMP or configure only the primary timings, few people compress the secondary and tertiary timings.

Our main forum is in memory overclocking:
https://forums.overclockers.ru/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=578879


----------



## glocked89

Jpmboy said:


> grab a copy of asrock Timing configurator v4.0.4. install it and post up a snip with CPUZ open to the "SPD" tab.
> The difference is not because of the amount of installed ram, but I'm betting your ram is either configured in an unstable way, or there is a timing clash.
> are you using XMP? Have you tested the stability?


Thank you for all your responses so far!
I figured it out. The photoworxx benchmark in aida64 is heavily affected by the amount of threads you use. After *disabling hyperthreading and running the benchmark as 10 core*, my 10980xe scored normally. It seems the threads get in the way of eachother or something? Memory speed/timings affect the score heavily as well.


----------



## Carillo

Hey! First time trying MSI. using a pair of G.skill 4400 cl18 Royal sticks. But i have issues with my sub timings. No matter what i do with twtr_L, it just lives it own life. Can anyone post calculation rules for sub timings? I have tried running settings i have used on my Gene motherboard, but i wont load windows before it blues screens. Maby i'm doing something wrong here ?


----------



## Gen.

*Carillo*

tCL=17
tRCD=18
tRP=18
tRAS=39
tRC=59
CR=1 или 2
tWR=16
tRTP=8
tWTR_S=4
tWTR_L=8
tRFC=400
tREFI=65534
tRRD_S=4
tRRD_L=6
tCWL=16
tCKE=8
ALL dr & dd=0 или 1
tRDRD_sg=7
tRDRD_dg=4
tRDWR_sg=11
tRDWR_dg=11
tWRRD_sg=30
tWRRD_dg=26
tWRWR_sg=7
tWRWR_dg=4

P.S. tWTR_L=8 is regulated through tWRRD_sg=30, tWTR_S=4 is regulated through tWRRD_dg=26
WRRD_sg=6+CWL+WTR_L
WRRD_dg=6+CWL+WTR_S
WRPRE=4+CWL+WR


----------



## Carillo

Gen. said:


> *Carillo*
> 
> tCL=17
> tRCD=18
> tRP=18
> tRAS=39
> tRC=59
> CR=1 или 2
> tWR=16
> tRTP=8
> tWTR_S=4
> tWTR_L=8
> tRFC=400
> tREFI=65534
> tRRD_S=4
> tRRD_L=6
> tCWL=16
> tCKE=8
> ALL dr & dd=0 или 1
> tRDRD_sg=7
> tRDRD_dg=4
> tRDWR_sg=11
> tRDWR_dg=11
> tWRRD_sg=30
> tWRRD_dg=26
> tWRWR_sg=7
> tWRWR_dg=4
> 
> P.S. tWTR_L=8 is regulated through tWRRD_sg=30, tWTR_S=4 is regulated through tWRRD_dg=26
> WRRD_sg=6+CWL+WTR_L
> WRRD_dg=6+CWL+WTR_S
> WRPRE=4+CWL+WR


Thanks man  appreciate it


----------



## Gen.

Carillo said:


> Thanks man  appreciate it


Also do proper memory training. IOL (Discrepancy 0..1; for example, 6-6 or 6-7, no more), RTL (Discrepancy 0..2; for example, 58-58 or 58-59 or 58-60, no more)


----------



## swddeluxx

Gen. said:


> *Carillo*
> 
> tCL=17
> tRCD=18
> tRP=18
> tRAS=*39*
> tRC=59
> CR=1 *или* 2
> tWR=16
> tRTP=8
> tWTR_S=4
> tWTR_L=8
> tRFC=400
> tREFI=6553*4*
> tRRD_S=4
> tRRD_L=6
> tCWL=16
> tCKE=*8*
> ALL dr & dd=0 *или* 1
> tRDRD_sg=7
> tRDRD_dg=4
> tRDWR_sg=*11*
> tRDWR_dg=*11*
> tWRRD_sg=30
> tWRRD_dg=26
> tWRWR_sg=7
> tWRWR_dg=4
> 
> P.S. tWTR_L=8 is regulated through tWRRD_sg=30, tWTR_S=4 is regulated through tWRRD_dg=26
> WRRD_sg=6+CWL+WTR_L
> WRRD_dg=6+CWL+WTR_S
> WRPRE=4+CWL+WR


very interesting *ant*... sorry *Gen.*




Spoiler



- "*я никогда и нигде не использую другой ник..*."
Штирлиц ещё никогда не был так близок к провалу :wave2:


----------



## Gen.

If anyone is interested


----------



## Falkentyne

@Gen.
Hello,
Earlier, you said "TWR: tCL divided by 2". Example: If CAS=16, tWR=8 and tRTP=4.

But then later, you said TWR: 1 below CAS. example, CAS 17, tWR=16 (and thus tRTP=8).

But why?


----------



## Apothysis

Gen. said:


> *Carillo*
> 
> tCL=17
> tRCD=18
> tRP=18
> tRAS=39
> tRC=59
> CR=1 или 2
> tWR=16
> tRTP=8
> tWTR_S=4
> tWTR_L=8
> tRFC=400
> tREFI=65534
> tRRD_S=4
> tRRD_L=6
> tCWL=16
> tCKE=8
> ALL dr & dd=0 или 1
> tRDRD_sg=7
> tRDRD_dg=4
> tRDWR_sg=11
> tRDWR_dg=11
> tWRRD_sg=30
> tWRRD_dg=26
> tWRWR_sg=7
> tWRWR_dg=4
> 
> P.S. tWTR_L=8 is regulated through tWRRD_sg=30, tWTR_S=4 is regulated through tWRRD_dg=26
> WRRD_sg=6+CWL+WTR_L
> WRRD_dg=6+CWL+WTR_S
> WRPRE=4+CWL+WR



Please provide some motivation for your settings? What's the relationship between tWR and tRTP? Why would you first say tWR = CL/2 and then change that to CL-1? And tRTP = tWR/2?



If I'm at tCL 16, that would lead to either tWR 8; tRTP 4 or tWR 15; tRTP 7.5? Neither make sense.


----------



## Gen.

Guys, the tWR timing is set to even, and if tCL is an odd number (for example, 17), then tWR as well as tcl are set to 1 lower (16). Sorry for my English, I use a translator and I'm from Russia. Do you understand me now?


----------



## chibi

Hi @Gen.can you review my timings and advise for 4200?

Thanks! :thumb:


----------



## Gen.

1 group:
tRAS = may be 34 or 36.

2 group:
tRC=tRP+tRAS=50 or 52.
tWR = 16
tRTP = 8
tWTR_S = 4(6)
tWTR_L = 8
tRRD_L= may be 4, MAY BE (but not necessarily)
tRFC = 320 (-8; must be a multiple of 8, then omit(down); 320...312...304...296 and so on)
tREFI = 7.8 * 4200 = 32760 for safe, 65520 is good, but for frequencies over 4000 you can put the maximum, not 65535 and 65534.
tCWL = 16

3 group
tCKE = 8
ALL dr & dd = 0!
tRDRD_sg = 6
tRDRD_dg = 4
tRDWR = tCL-tCWL = 10
tWRRD_sg = 6 + tCWL + tWTR_L = 30
tWRRD_dg = 6 + tCWL + tWTR_S = 26
tWRWR_sg = 6

*Warning!* For ASUS motherboard:
Setting up tWR through WRPRE:
WRPRE = 4 + CWL + WR
Setting up RTP through RDPRE:
RDPRE = RTP

P.S. You _*may need*_ to raise the tension on RAM (1.48V-1.5V), VCCIO 1.25, VCSSA 1.28-1.30


----------



## chibi

Gen. said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 1 group:
> tRAS = may be 34 or 36.
> 
> 2 group:
> tRC=tRP+tRAS=50 or 52.
> tWR = 16
> tRTP = 8
> tWTR_S = 4(6)
> tWTR_L = 8
> tRRD_L= may be 4, MAY BE (but not necessarily)
> tRFC = 320 (-8; must be a multiple of 8, then omit(down); 320...312...304...296 and so on)
> tREFI = 7.8 * 4200 = 32760 for safe, 65520 is good, but for frequencies over 4000 you can put the maximum, not 65535 and 65534.
> tCWL = 16
> 
> 3 group
> tCKE = 8
> ALL dr & dd = 0!
> tRDRD_sg = 6
> tRDRD_dg = 4
> tRDWR = tCL-tCWL = 10
> tWRRD_sg = 6 + tCWL + tWTR_L = 30
> tWRRD_dg = 6 + tCWL + tWTR_S = 26
> tWRWR_sg = 6
> 
> *Warning!* For ASUS motherboard:
> Setting up tWR through WRPRE:
> WRPRE = 4 + CWL + WR
> Setting up RTP through RDPRE:
> RDPRE = RTP
> 
> P.S. You _*may need*_ to raise the tension on RAM (1.48V-1.5V), VCCIO 1.25, VCSSA 1.28-1.30



Thanks Gen, +Rep! I will try these tweaks on the weekend and report back.


----------



## wholeeo

Can anyone help me push this kit a bit further. I never expected much from this set as it was just purchased to have 64GB of memory but I'm happy I've been able to go from 3200 to 3600 and tighten secondary and tertiary timings. I'm really trying to hit sub 45 latency. I'd be happy with 44.9. The closest I've gotten has been 45.0. Here are my settings.


----------



## Jpmboy

wholeeo said:


> Can anyone help me push this kit a bit further. I never expected much from this set as it was just purchased to have 64GB of memory but I'm happy I've been able to go from 3200 to 3600 and tighten secondary and tertiary timings. I'm really trying to hit sub 45 latency. I'd be happy with 44.9. The closest I've gotten has been 45.0. Here are my settings.


Hey man! :thumb:

These seem a bit high. Is that from the Auto settings in bios? POst up the SPD tab of CPUZ (or better yet a T-burner screenshot). And some voltages.


----------



## wholeeo

Jpmboy said:


> Hey man! :thumb:
> 
> These seem a bit high. Is that from the Auto settings in bios? POst up the SPD tab of CPUZ (or better yet a T-burner screenshot). And some voltages.


Hey there!

Not from auto settings at all. I've almost touched all the timings and have made considerable performance increases from stock considering these aren't much to begin with.


----------



## Gen.

On an estimation. How do I get a stable 4200?

Settings: https://yadi.sk/d/eIBy_VCxF4e8-A


----------



## sword fan

Well, I said I wouldn't go 1.5 vdimm, but look at the results...pretty excited! And I haven't even touched the 3rd timings from their xmp value. Going to do a 2500+ pass of HCI and an 8 hr run of occt large to make sure things are solid before I start messing with the next settings.


----------



## Gen.

sword fan said:


> Well, I said I wouldn't go 1.5 vdimm, but look at the results...pretty excited! And I haven't even touched the 3rd timings from their xmp value. Going to do a 2500+ pass of HCI and an 8 hr run of occt large to make sure things are solid before I start messing with the next settings.


Remember that incorrect secondary and tertiary timings can affect stability!
1 group:
tRAS=33
tRC=48

2 group:
tWR=14; WRPRE=4+CWL+WR=4+14(13)+14=32(31)
tRTP=7; RDPRE=RTP=7
tWTR_L=7
tWTR_S=4
tCWL may be 14?

3 group:
ALL dr & dd = 0
tRDRD_sg=6
tRDRD_dg=4
tRDWR_sg&dg=10 if tCWL=14 or 11 if tCWL=13
tWRRD_sg=27 if tCWL=14 or 26 if tCWL=13 (WRRD_sg=6+CWL+WTR_L)
tWRRD_dg=24 if tCWL=14 or 23 if tCWL=13 (WRRD_dg=6+CWL+WTR_S)
tWRWR_sg=6
tWRWR_dg=6


----------



## Jpmboy

wholeeo said:


> Hey there!
> 
> Not from auto settings at all. I've almost touched all the timings and have made considerable performance increases from stock considering these aren't much to begin with.


ug - yeah, I failed to post the pic with the timings in question:


Gen. said:


> On an estimation. How do I get a stable 4200?
> 
> Settings: https://yadi.sk/d/eIBy_VCxF4e8-A


what Vdimm??


sword fan said:


> Well, I said I wouldn't go 1.5 vdimm, but look at the results...pretty excited! And I haven't even touched the 3rd timings from their xmp value. Going to do a 2500+ pass of HCI and an 8 hr run of occt large to make sure things are solid before I start messing with the next settings.


The sticks are fine with 1.5V VDimm... especially Sammy B and D. Just monitor the temps of the sticks - above 40C random bit-flips can happen (more frequently). There are kits that have an XMP of 1.5V. The manufacturers work with intel on each platform to define the VDimm "AOR" (acceptable operating range) since it impacts the IMC more so than the ram sticks. Intel is certifying 1.5V XMPs... so 1.5V is "within spec" - as a ram overclock. XMP is an OC on the CPU ,mainly because of the IMC load, hence INtel's (and AMD's) participation in the process.


----------



## sword fan

Gen. said:


> Remember that incorrect secondary and tertiary timings can affect stability!
> 1 group:
> tRAS=33
> tRC=48
> 
> 2 group:
> tWR=14; WRPRE=4+CWL+WR=4+14(13)+14=32(31)
> tRTP=7; RDPRE=RTP=7
> tWTR_L=7
> tWTR_S=4
> tCWL may be 14?
> 
> 3 group:
> ALL dr & dd = 0
> tRDRD_sg=6
> tRDRD_dg=4
> tRDWR_sg&dg=10 if tCWL=14 or 11 if tCWL=13
> tWRRD_sg=27 if tCWL=14 or 26 if tCWL=13 (WRRD_sg=6+CWL+WTR_L)
> tWRRD_dg=24 if tCWL=14 or 23 if tCWL=13 (WRRD_dg=6+CWL+WTR_S)
> tWRWR_sg=6
> tWRWR_dg=6



Thanks for your input, may I ask why these settings would be preferable/more stable? What is the reason behind using odd or even numbers where these settings are concerned?


----------



## sword fan

Jpmboy said:


> The sticks are fine with 1.5V VDimm... especially Sammy B and D. Just monitor the temps of the sticks - above 40C random bit-flips can happen (more frequently). There are kits that have an XMP of 1.5V. The manufacturers work with intel on each platform to define the VDimm "AOR" (acceptable operating range) since it impacts the IMC more so than the ram sticks. Intel is certifying 1.5V XMPs... so 1.5V is "within spec" - as a ram overclock. XMP is an OC on the CPU ,mainly because of the IMC load, hence INtel's (and AMD's) participation in the process.


Thanks for the reassurance!


----------



## robertr1

Worked my voltage down for IO and SA. Very pleased that this chip can do 17/4200 1T at only 1.17v IO and SA.


----------



## ViTosS

Hello @Gen. Can I get some advise review of my timings? Thanks!


----------



## Gen.

ViTosS said:


> Hello @Gen. Can I get some advise review of my timings? Thanks!


Hi! 

I speak Russian because I'm from Russia. If necessary, translate it through an interpreter. Thanks.

Hi! 
4000 MHz

tCL=16
tRCD=16(17)
tRP=16(17)
tRAS=36(37)
tRC=52(54)
tCR=1 or 2

tWR=16
tRFC=320 (-8; должно быть кратно 8, затем опустите)
tRRD_L=6(4)
tRRD_S=4
tWTR_L=8
tWTR_S=4
tRTP=8
tFAW=16
tCWL=16

tREFI=65534!
tCKE=8
Все dr (если 2 плашки всего) & dd (если 1Rx8GB)=0
tRDRD_sg=6
tRDRD_dg=4 
tRDWR_sg=10
tRDWR_dg=10
tWRRD_sg=30
tWRRD_dg=26
tWRWR_sg=6
tWRWR_dg=4

P.S.
Регулировка tWR через WRPRE: 
WRPRE = 4+CWL+WR=4+16+16=34
Регулировка RTP через RDPRE: 
RDPRE=RTP=8

P.S.S. 
Тайминги tCCD_S и tCCD_L в ASUS UEFI отсутствуют.

На платах Asus Maximus установка Maximus Tweak Mode 2 приведет к снижению значений RTL и IOL, но можно потерять в стабильности. Нужно пробовать.
Fast Boot Memory=Disable.

DRAM=1.50V, Training=1.45V-1.50V, IO=1.25, SA=1.30.


----------



## Dwofzz

Any suggestions guys?
IO at 1.2v and SA at 1.23~ Dram is set at 1.43v (1.45v)
The sticks I use for this build : Team Group Xtreem T-Force 8PACK 4500MHz CL 18-20-20-44 1.45v

Any how.. these settings seems to be pretty stable (I am still testing)


----------



## munternet

Dwofzz said:


> Any suggestions guys?
> IO at 1.2v and SA at 1.23~ Dram is set at 1.43v (1.45v)
> The sticks I use for this build : Team Group Xtreem T-Force 8PACK 4500MHz CL 18-20-20-44 1.45v
> 
> Any how.. these settings seems to be pretty stable (I am still testing)


Looks good 
Voltages look nice

Any chance of 1T? 
tREFI could probably go up a bit


----------



## 8051

sword fan said:


> Well, I said I wouldn't go 1.5 vdimm, but look at the results...pretty excited! And I haven't even touched the 3rd timings from their xmp value. Going to do a 2500+ pass of HCI and an 8 hr run of occt large to make sure things are solid before I start messing with the next settings.


Aren't you worried about that 1.280V VCCSA or the even higher 1.29V VCCIO?


----------



## Dwofzz

munternet said:


> Looks good
> Voltages look nice
> 
> Any chance of 1T?
> tREFI could probably go up a bit


Haven't had the time to test it yet, I will let this run overnight and se if it is still running in the morning (I will use HCI memtest) and then I'll go for T1 

Update : No T1 does NOT post x)


----------



## sword fan

8051 said:


> Aren't you worried about that 1.280V VCCSA or the even higher 1.29V VCCIO?


I apparently have a pretty weak imc on my 8700k as I needed over 1.235 on both to get my cache completely stable at 4.7ghz when I had my old ripjaws 3200 c14 kit. Then I had to up that to 1.255 just to get my 3600 c15 kit to run at its XMP. I'm hoping that as long as I don't let them get more than a sliver above 1.3v under load that I'll be ok....hopefully, lol.


----------



## munternet

sword fan said:


> I apparently have a pretty weak imc on my 8700k as I needed over 1.235 on both to get my cache completely stable at 4.7ghz when I had my old ripjaws 3200 c14 kit. Then I had to up that to 1.255 just to get my 3600 c15 kit to run at its XMP. I'm hoping that as long as I don't let them get more than a sliver above 1.3v under load that I'll be ok....hopefully, lol.


I wouldn't worry too much if it were me (I have similar  ) der8auer said in one of his O/clock youtube vids that 1.35v is "perfectly fine". I know that he may not have his gear long but 1.3v is below 1.35v


----------



## BradleyW

munternet said:


> I wouldn't worry too much if it were me (I have similar  ) der8auer said in one of his O/clock youtube vids that 1.35v is "perfectly fine". I know that he may not have his gear long but 1.3v is below 1.35v


The truth is, these people don't know what is safe and what isn't, so they pull numbers out of their hat which sound reasonable to them, and people follow without question. Some say 1.25v, some say 1.3v, others say 1.35v. And what is the actual voltage....because software readings on some boards can be off.

Personally, for safety, I go with the lower suggestions and stick to 1.25v or lower. I run both at 1.23v, but that is my software reading. Could be a little higher, or lower.


----------



## munternet

BradleyW said:


> The truth is, these people don't know what is safe and what isn't, so they pull numbers out of their hat which sound reasonable to them, and people follow without question. Some say 1.25v, some say 1.3v, others say 1.35v. And what is the actual voltage....because software readings on some boards can be off.
> 
> Personally, for safety, I go with the lower suggestions and stick to 1.25v or lower. I run both at 1.23v, but that is my software reading. Could be a little higher, or lower.


Some of the XMP settings are up at about 1.4 for IO and SA.
Maybe we need a thread for who killed what and with what voltage


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> Hi!
> 
> I speak Russian because I'm from Russia. If necessary, translate it through an interpreter. Thanks.
> 
> Hi!
> 4000 MHz
> 
> tCL=16
> tRCD=16(17)
> tRP=16(17)
> tRAS=36(37)
> tRC=52(54)
> tCR=1 or 2
> 
> tWR=16
> tRFC=320 (-8; должно быть кратно 8, затем опустите)
> tRRD_L=6(4)
> tRRD_S=4
> tWTR_L=8
> tWTR_S=4
> tRTP=8
> tFAW=16
> tCWL=16
> 
> tREFI=65534!
> tCKE=8
> Все dr (если 2 плашки всего) & dd (если 1Rx8GB)=0
> tRDRD_sg=6
> tRDRD_dg=4
> tRDWR_sg=10
> tRDWR_dg=10
> tWRRD_sg=30
> tWRRD_dg=26
> tWRWR_sg=6
> tWRWR_dg=4
> 
> P.S.
> Регулировка tWR через WRPRE:
> WRPRE = 4+CWL+WR=4+16+16=34
> Регулировка RTP через RDPRE:
> RDPRE=RTP=8
> 
> P.S.S.
> Тайминги tCCD_S и tCCD_L в ASUS UEFI отсутствуют.
> 
> На платах Asus Maximus установка Maximus Tweak Mode 2 приведет к снижению значений RTL и IOL, но можно потерять в стабильности. Нужно пробовать.
> Fast Boot Memory=Disable.
> 
> DRAM=1.50V, Training=1.45V-1.50V, IO=1.25, SA=1.30.


Thank you! This is how I have set after your instructions, I couldn't find the ''Bce dr'' setting and also the ''RDPRE'' in BIOS, but I set RTP to 8 anyway, also the training voltage is the same of eventual voltage? Couldn't find training voltage neither in my BIOS, and Fast Boot Memory would be the same as MRC Fast Boot? I tried 16-16-16-36 as you said and changed DRAM from 1.45v to 1.50, also IO from 1.20 to 1.25 and SA from 1.20 to 1.30 but I had errors while stress testing, so went back to 16-17-17-37.


----------



## bass junkie xl

hello i am a long time lurker here made a account to get some help / recommendations on these timings 

anything i can change or any timings here that look out of wack ? 

thanks guys i think these can do 37 ns with some tweaking just having a tough time 

Asus X-Hero Z-370 Wifi 
9900 ks @ 5 ghz /4.7 cahce @ 1.23 v 
32 gb 4x8 gb team group xtreeme 4133 c18 @ 4200 c17 
vccio @1.18v ( bios ) 1.208v under load
[email protected] 1.2 v ( bios ) 1.216v under load 

this profile passes prime 95 29.8 version 6 
-small ffts non avx 8 hrs 
- blend 8 hrs 

asus real bench stress test with 32 g ram 8 hrs 

hci mem test 1200 % +


----------



## Imprezzion

bass junkie xl said:


> hello i am a long time lurker here made a account to get some help / recommendations on these timings
> 
> anything i can change or any timings here that look out of wack ?
> 
> thanks guys i think these can do 37 ns with some tweaking just having a tough time
> 
> Asus X-Hero Z-370 Wifi
> 9900 ks @ 5 ghz /4.7 cahce @ 1.23 v
> 32 gb 4x8 gb team group xtreeme 4133 c18 @ 4200 c17
> vccio @1.18v ( bios ) 1.208v under load
> [email protected] 1.2 v ( bios ) 1.216v under load
> 
> this profile passes prime 95 29.8 version 6
> -small ffts non avx 8 hrs
> - blend 8 hrs
> 
> asus real bench stress test with 32 g ram 8 hrs
> 
> hci mem test 1200 % +


Nothing is out of wack, these timings look great for 4x8GB actually. You might be able to push to 16-17-17 and a slightly lower tWR (16 or maybe even 14 with tCWL 14 as well?) and slightly tighter RTL/IO to eek out that last ms of latency but that's pretty much all you can change now.


----------



## munternet

bass junkie xl said:


> hello i am a long time lurker here made a account to get some help / recommendations on these timings
> 
> anything i can change or any timings here that look out of wack ?
> 
> thanks guys i think these can do 37 ns with some tweaking just having a tough time
> 
> Asus X-Hero Z-370 Wifi
> 9900 ks @ 5 ghz /4.7 cahce @ 1.23 v
> 32 gb 4x8 gb team group xtreeme 4133 c18 @ 4200 c17
> vccio @1.18v ( bios ) 1.208v under load
> [email protected] 1.2 v ( bios ) 1.216v under load
> 
> this profile passes prime 95 29.8 version 6
> -small ffts non avx 8 hrs
> - blend 8 hrs
> 
> asus real bench stress test with 32 g ram 8 hrs
> 
> hci mem test 1200 % +


Looks like a solid result 
Those sticks seem to behave well

I see the io and sa show higher in HWinfo. Still pretty sweet though.


----------



## Zemach

4800 CL 17 17 17 37 1.59 IO 1.35 SA 1.4 quick test


----------



## munternet

Zemach said:


> 4800 CL 17 17 17 37 1.59 IO 1.35 SA 1.4 quick test


You crazy Apex guys


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## chibi

reachthesky said:


> Damn I really want that apex board now lol. I need to do research and see how well dual ranked dimms oc on it, i need the full 32gb.



I've seen reports of 16gb modules oc'ing to 3800 ~ 4000. I can't remember if it was 1 or 2T though.


----------



## Falkentyne

chibi said:


> I've seen reports of 16gb modules oc'ing to 3800 ~ 4000. I can't remember if it was 1 or 2T though.


Mine can go to 3600 mhz 15/15/15/36 from 3200 14/14/14/34 on my Aorus Master. I had problems getting 3733 to work (seems to keep failling training and setting itself to 2800 mhz), but the fact that it posts at a lower speed means that 3733 is probably doable if i knew what I was doing. Anything higher simply does the 5 beep error then the BIOS is reset to 2133 mhz


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

Zemach said:


> 4800 CL 17 17 17 37 1.59 IO 1.35 SA 1.4 quick test


71K write! Nice! :thumb:


----------



## Lalka228

Hi, i am new guy there. I just want to share some results, may be it will be usefull for someone with non-k processors. Its top-1 in corona render among windows system. For me its 24/7 usage.

Memory: Patriot 4400 c19 , 1.55v, IO/SA auto (do not touch yet because of laziness)

SOTTR - DX12, 720p, minimal settings, anti-aliasing OFF
ACOD - 720p X 0,5 render - Low preset


----------



## Jpmboy

Lalka228 said:


> Hi, i am new guy there. I just want to share some results, may be it will be usefull for someone with non-k processors. Its top-1 in corona render among windows system. For me its 24/7 usage.
> 
> Memory: Patriot 4400 c19 , 1.55v, IO/SA auto (do not touch yet because of laziness)
> 
> SOTTR - DX12, 720p, minimal settings, anti-aliasing OFF
> ACOD - 720p X 0,5 render - Low preset


Welcome to OCN!
Looks like a good setup you got there,


----------



## Jawnathin

CPU - 10980XE
Motherboard - Asus Rampage VI Apex
Memory - G.SKILL Trident Z 4266MHz CL19-19-19-39 1.40V

Hardware information above. Not the very best equipment but its all pretty high end stuff and I am running into a situation where for some reason my memory overclock struggles with higher frequencies I think it should hit. For example, I cannot get it to run at 3600mhz CL19 I think would be pretty easy for this equipment. It is unstable even in the BIOS menu. It won't even post at 4000mhz. I've got my VCCIO and VCCSA set to 1.100v, setting to 1.200v did not help. 

The best I've been able to do is run a lower frequency at much tighter timings, currently 3200mhz 14-14-14-34 CR1 tRFC 300 and its stable, tested to 3000% coverage. Performance is good, the tighter timings largely makes up for the frequency but I'm just confused as to why this is and whether there is something I'm overlooking. Thanks.


----------



## Apothysis

reachthesky said:


> Damn I really want that apex board now lol. I need to do research and see how well dual ranked dimms oc on it, i need the full 32gb.


I've played with 3 different 2x16 GB dual rank kits (B-die) and they all did 3800 MHz comfortably. Anything above 3900 MHz was essentially a no-go. I have more experience with the board now and learned a few tricks that might've helped but I don't think you should expect more than 3800 MHz for daily. So it seems on par with just about everything else as far as dual rank goes. I'd only recommend the Apex if you want to go speed demon on 2x8GB B-die.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Dwofzz

Finally done, Tested 5h OCCT small data set with avx and 1000% HCI no errors.. 
(All my voltages are measured with a mm)
SA 1.216v
IO 1.166v
Vcore 1.306v
Dram VTT +30 (0.753v)

I don't think that it is possible to lower anything else here but if any of you guys have any suggestions feel free to let me know!


----------



## Salve1412

Hi guys! This is my sytem:
Z390 Aorus Master BIOS F11c
Intel Core i9-9900k overclocked to 5.0GHz Uncore 4.6
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (4x8GB) 4266MHz CL17, reported in my motherboard QVL 

What would you consider the most probable culprit of unnerving inconsistencies when it comes to RAM overclocking? These days I've been looking at some interesting timings for 4133MHz CL16 posted, I think, by the user Gen. in the Z390 Aorus Owners thread. I tried them and they worked flawlessly. If previously I couldn't go past 4100Mhz CL16 without getting errors in tests, after using these settings I passed 20000% Karhu and 1000% HCIMemtest without any issue. Basically he uses higher values for tWR, tCKE, tRTP and lower values for tRDWRs than mine, resulting in better performance and stability. I repeated the tests during the last few days and they all passed. DRAM Voltage was 1.46V, VCCIO 1.22V, VCCSA 1.21V.
After I read the progress another user (reachthesky) has made reaching 4200MHz CL15 on this very motherboard (which honestly I wouldn't have believed possible) I've been tempted to dare again. I raised voltages just a little and, although the board trained succesfully at 4200 CL16, GSAT from DOS failed after a few seconds. Now to the inconsistency part. If I reverted to the same settings (4133MHz CL16) that had been rock-solid for the last few days Karhu failed almost immediately (7%,22%,56% etc.), and so did other tests. I reset the CMOS about five times, repeating each time the tests, and they always failed. Eventually, after the sixth or seventh CMOS reset, the system appeared to be again stable and right now it has repassed 20000% Karhu twice. I hate this situation, because it discourages me from experimenting with higher frequencies, since every time I apparently risk to lose the stability I had before. In your opinion what is more likely to cause this incoherent behaviour, a semi-faulty board or a drunken IMC (or maybe cache instability, though failure happened even with CPU at stock settings)? I exclude the RAM because the situation with my previous 16GB 4266 CL19 G.Skill kit wasn't different: instability blooming out of the blue affecting previously stable settings after trying higher frequencies unsuccesfully. Apologies for prolixity.


----------



## Jpmboy

Most would call that "conditional" stability. remember, before locking down a ram OC, it really needs to experience a few AC power cycles (eg, switch off or unplug the PSU). The POST procedures from a cold and AC OFF condition are different from those during a warm boot.


----------



## Dwofzz

Jawnathin said:


> CPU - 10980XE
> Motherboard - Asus Rampage VI Apex
> Memory - G.SKILL Trident Z 4266MHz CL19-19-19-39 1.40V
> 
> Hardware information above. Not the very best equipment but its all pretty high end stuff and I am running into a situation where for some reason my memory overclock struggles with higher frequencies I think it should hit. For example, I cannot get it to run at 3600mhz CL19 I think would be pretty easy for this equipment. It is unstable even in the BIOS menu. It won't even post at 4000mhz. I've got my VCCIO and VCCSA set to 1.100v, setting to 1.200v did not help.
> 
> The best I've been able to do is run a lower frequency at much tighter timings, currently 3200mhz 14-14-14-34 CR1 tRFC 300 and its stable, tested to 3000% coverage. Performance is good, the tighter timings largely makes up for the frequency but I'm just confused as to why this is and whether there is something I'm overlooking. Thanks.


My second pc is a x299 system with a 7940x and a evga dark. I need 1.25v ish when running 3800MHz or higher so you might need to up som voltages even more


----------



## Dwofzz

Jpmboy said:


> Most would call that "conditional" stability. remember, before locking down a ram OC, it really needs to experience a few AC power cycles (eg, switch off or unplug the PSU). The POST procedures from a cold and AC OFF condition are different from those during a warm boot.


This is why I always type in all values by hand, every single on. I've had cases when the board derp out and put some really off values if it is left at auto (mostly rtls but still)


----------



## Falkentyne

Salve1412 said:


> Hi guys! This is my sytem:
> Z390 Aorus Master BIOS F11c
> Intel Core i9-9900k overclocked to 5.0GHz Uncore 4.6
> G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (4x8GB) 4266MHz CL17, reported in my motherboard QVL
> 
> What would you consider the most probable culprit of unnerving inconsistencies when it comes to RAM overclocking? These days I've been looking at some interesting timings for 4133MHz CL16 posted, I think, by the user Gen. in the Z390 Aorus Owners thread. I tried them and they worked flawlessly. If previously I couldn't go past 4100Mhz CL16 without getting errors in tests, after using these settings I passed 20000% Karhu and 1000% HCIMemtest without any issue. Basically he uses higher values for tWR, tCKE, tRTP and lower values for tRDWRs than mine, resulting in better performance and stability. I repeated the tests during the last few days and they all passed. DRAM Voltage was 1.46V, VCCIO 1.22V, VCCSA 1.21V.
> After I read the progress another user (reachthesky) has made reaching 4200MHz CL15 on this very motherboard (which honestly I wouldn't have believed possible) I've been tempted to dare again. I raised voltages just a little and, although the board trained succesfully at 4200 CL16, GSAT from DOS failed after a few seconds. Now to the inconsistency part. If I reverted to the same settings (4133MHz CL16) that had been rock-solid for the last few days Karhu failed almost immediately (7%,22%,56% etc.), and so did other tests. I reset the CMOS about five times, repeating each time the tests, and they always failed. Eventually, after the sixth or seventh CMOS reset, the system appeared to be again stable and right now it has repassed 20000% Karhu twice. I hate this situation, because it discourages me from experimenting with higher frequencies, since every time I apparently risk to lose the stability I had before. In your opinion what is more likely to cause this incoherent behaviour, a semi-faulty board or a drunken IMC (or maybe cache instability, though failure happened even with CPU at stock settings)? I exclude the RAM because the situation with my previous 16GB 4266 CL19 G.Skill kit wasn't different: instability blooming out of the blue affecting previously stable settings after trying higher frequencies unsuccesfully. Apologies for prolixity.


Try to find out all the tertiary timings the board sets when you have your stable settings and write them down someplace.
Then enter each and every timing by hand, leaving nothing on auto, then see if it is still stable after they are entered by hand.
Make sure you compare what you think the BIOS set to what the Asrock tool is displaying and use those values if at all possible.

Once you have every value entered and tested, save it as a profile.
Then clear the CMOS and try loading that profile again and see if it works. If you can get it working 100% at that point, then you found your consistency.


----------



## Jawnathin

Dwofzz said:


> My second pc is a x299 system with a 7940x and a evga dark. I need 1.25v ish when running 3800MHz or higher so you might need to up som voltages even more


Thanks, still no luck at 3600mhz by bumping up VCCSA or VCCIO to 1.25v. Something goofy is going on.


----------



## Jpmboy

Dwofzz said:


> This is why I always type in all values by hand, every single on. I've had cases when the board derp out and put some really off values if it is left at auto (mostly rtls but still)


yeah, at RTLs are notorious for this since it is an actual measurement of signal round trip. When they can be set manually - that's the best!


Jawnathin said:


> Thanks, still no luck at 3600mhz by bumping up VCCSA or VCCIO to 1.25v. Something goofy is going on.


So, on x299, VSA and VCCIO are very different in behavior than on 1151 platforms. Especually VSA, where more can actually harm signal alignment and cause POST fails. You need to range the VSA up and down to find the optimal setting. What voltage are you running for Vdimm? POst a screenshot of CPUZ spd tab, load the working 3200 config, boot windows and post a screenshot with CPU SPD, and asrock timing configurator v4.0.4 (best for the Apex VI). Also, which bios version?
Yeah, unless the sticks are real bad, or the CPU IMC is out of whack, the board can easily handle 4x8GB at 4000c16.


----------



## Jawnathin

Jpmboy said:


> So, on x299, VSA and VCCIO are very different in behavior than on 1151 platforms. Especually VSA, where more can actually harm signal alignment and cause POST fails. You need to range the VSA up and down to find the optimal setting. What voltage are you running for Vdimm? POst a screenshot of CPUZ spd tab, load the working 3200 config, boot windows and post a screenshot with CPU SPD, and asrock timing configurator v4.0.4 (best for the Apex VI). Also, which bios version?
> Yeah, unless the sticks are real bad, or the CPU IMC is out of whack, the board can easily handle 4x8GB at 4000c16.


Thanks Jpm. I'll try going down on VSA and VCCIO settings to see if it helps. Vdimm is currently at 1.400v, previous testing at 1.500v didn't help. Didn't go any higher than that.

Here is a screenshot of CPU-Z and ASRock Timing Configurator with the current CL14 timings. BIOS is latest for R6Apex, Version 2002.


----------



## Jpmboy

Jawnathin said:


> Thanks Jpm. I'll try going down on VSA and VCCIO settings to see if it helps. Vdimm is currently at 1.400v, previous testing at 1.500v didn't help. Didn't go any higher than that.
> Here is a screenshot of CPU-Z and ASRock Timing Configurator with the current CL14 timings. BIOS is latest for R6Apex, Version 2002.


 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a dual channel RGB kit. So you are combining kits not binned for the platform or as a quad kit (to work together). NOt impossible, but not always easy. First, disable the RGB in bios (all off) as it can cause unnecessary heat and voltage issues. Then, you really need to clrcmos on the board - especially if XMP was ever enabled. Then manually enter the primary timings in the pic below, set the Vdimm to 1.45V (you can always lower it later. The CPU really only needs 1.0-something VCCIO and almost always less that 1V VSA. Yeah, I'm using bios 1705... it's been good to me and this 7980XE. 
If it posts with the below timings and voltages post back with the ATC screen showing.


----------



## hotrod717

Zemach said:


> 4800 CL 17 17 17 37 1.59 IO 1.35 SA 1.4 quick test


Nice!I just picked up a set of this ram(impulse buy) and was hoping for the best.


----------



## Jawnathin

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a dual channel RGB kit. So you are combining kits not binned for the platform or as a quad kit (to work together). NOt impossible, but not always easy. First, disable the RGB in bios (all off) as it can cause unnecessary heat and voltage issues. Then, you really need to clrcmos on the board - especially if XMP was ever enabled. Then manually enter the primary timings in the pic below, set the Vdimm to 1.45V (you can always lower it later. The CPU really only needs 1.0-something VCCIO and almost always less that 1V VSA. Yeah, I'm using bios 1705... it's been good to me and this 7980XE.
> If it posts with the below timings and voltages post back with the ATC screen showing.


Thanks Jpm. Yep, these are two dual channel kits. I bought them when I didn't know any better thinking they'd work OK as quad channel.

So I did some troubleshooting and think I know the issue. Both good news and bad news. Bad news is that after some messing around with testing DIMMs one by one and in different slots, for some reason the DIMM slots to the left of the socket don't like to play at higher frequencies. I can get into windows and do quick benches at 3600 using the slots on the right but its unstable when used on the left slots. Not sure the reason but it is what it is. I have to run Version 2002 for compatibility with my Cascade Lake CPU so I can't test on another BIOS version but if they come out with another I will try again. 

Good news is that I've figured out what the limit on frequency is and now I can just mess with optimizing timings. Currently at 14-14-14-34, might try and get down to the 13s. Or try 3400mhz.

I am not that bent out of shape about it, the tighter timings largely makes up for the lower frequency as the bandwidth, latency, etc. are all still pretty good. Just a very strange issue.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Kalm_Traveler

just received an 8gb x 8 3600mhz CL16 kit and swapped it out with an existing 16gb x 4 3200mhz CL14 kit on my 7960x rig since the new cpu won't ship until february and I didn't feel like draining the CPU loop to swap out motherboards just yet.

after a 48 hour stable go to make sure everything was fine with the old kit, I noticed that I needed to bump the RAM voltage from 1.38 to 1.39v just to get into Windows with 8 faster sticks VS 4 not quite as fast. So far so good though just running at stock 3600mhz speed. If it is stable on 1.39v I'll see if I can tweak the timings at all.


----------



## Nizzen

Jawnathin said:


> Thanks Jpm. Yep, these are two dual channel kits. I bought them when I didn't know any better thinking they'd work OK as quad channel.
> 
> So I did some troubleshooting and think I know the issue. Both good news and bad news. Bad news is that after some messing around with testing DIMMs one by one and in different slots, for some reason the DIMM slots to the left of the socket don't like to play at higher frequencies. I can get into windows and do quick benches at 3600 using the slots on the right but its unstable when used on the left slots. Not sure the reason but it is what it is. I have to run Version 2002 for compatibility with my Cascade Lake CPU so I can't test on another BIOS version but if they come out with another I will try again.
> 
> Good news is that I've figured out what the limit on frequency is and now I can just mess with optimizing timings. Currently at 14-14-14-34, might try and get down to the 13s. Or try 3400mhz.
> 
> I am not that bent out of shape about it, the tighter timings largely makes up for the lower frequency as the bandwidth, latency, etc. are all still pretty good. Just a very strange issue.


100GB/s with x299 is bad. 122GB/s is good 

Hvat MB du you have? 4000mhz is pretty easy on x299 with b-die/e-die.


----------



## Dwofzz

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, at RTLs are notorious for this since it is an actual measurement of signal round trip. When they can be set manually - that's the best!
> 
> So, on x299, VSA and VCCIO are very different in behavior than on 1151 platforms. Especually VSA, where more can actually harm signal alignment and cause POST fails. You need to range the VSA up and down to find the optimal setting. What voltage are you running for Vdimm? POst a screenshot of CPUZ spd tab, load the working 3200 config, boot windows and post a screenshot with CPU SPD, and asrock timing configurator v4.0.4 (best for the Apex VI). Also, which bios version?
> Yeah, unless the sticks are real bad, or the CPU IMC is out of whack, the board can easily handle 4x8GB at 4000c16.


SA isn't even used on the 10c chips and up on the x299 platform is it? :O That's what I've Always Heard anyways


----------



## Jpmboy

Dwofzz said:


> SA isn't even used on the 10c chips and up on the x299 platform is it? :O That's what I've Always Heard anyways


yeah, it is used, just not like on 1151 sockets. 2011 (x99) behaves like 2066 (x299)


----------



## Jpmboy

hotrod717 said:


> Nice!I just picked up a set of this ram(impulse buy) and was hoping for the best.


hey bud.. you playing in Freezer burn 3?


----------



## Kalm_Traveler

Anyone else running a 3600mhz 8gb x 8 CL16 kit on a 79x0 chip?

What voltages did you need to use for the RAM, cache, SA, and VCCIO? 

As mentioned previously, I swapped this kit in replacing a 16gb x 4 kit of 3200mhz CL14 which had been finally stabilized by slightly bumping up the stock 1.35v up to 1.38v, but when I put these 8 DIMMs in Windows wouldn't even finish loading (got BSODs during loading) until I bumped RAM voltage to 1.39v, and was crashing quickly until I bumped it again to 1.40v. Interestingly, this is a 'normal' BSOD crash + auto reboot rather than hard perma-freeze like before.
Also froze on me after an hour or so of playing Jedi Fallen Order (of course right after I finish getting all the chests and secrets on a planet but right before I could save lol) so I bumped up cache voltage from 1.180v to 1.220v and left the machine on overnight (10 hours uptime so far).

On the plus side, this freeze didn't produce nearly as loud or high pitched buzzing sound... was lower volume and lower frequency so it didn't startle me to falling out of the chair...

Last question for now if I can ask - does it make sense that with the 8gb x 8 3600mhz CL16 kit, CBR15 and 20 scores would be consistently slightly lower than with the 16gb x 4 3200mhz CL14 kit?


----------



## Jpmboy

Kalm_Traveler said:


> Anyone else running a 3600mhz 8gb x 8 CL16 kit on a 79x0 chip?
> 
> What voltages did you need to use for the RAM, cache, SA, and VCCIO?
> 
> As mentioned previously, I swapped this kit in replacing a 16gb x 4 kit of 3200mhz CL14 which had been finally stabilized by slightly bumping up the stock 1.35v up to 1.38v, but when I put these 8 DIMMs in Windows wouldn't even finish loading (got BSODs during loading) until I bumped RAM voltage to 1.39v, and was crashing quickly until I bumped it again to 1.40v. Interestingly, this is a 'normal' BSOD crash + auto reboot rather than hard perma-freeze like before.
> Also froze on me after an hour or so of playing Jedi Fallen Order (of course right after I finish getting all the chests and secrets on a planet but right before I could save lol) so I bumped up cache voltage from 1.180v to 1.220v and left the machine on overnight (10 hours uptime so far).
> 
> On the plus side, this freeze didn't produce nearly as loud or high pitched buzzing sound... was lower volume and lower frequency so it didn't startle me to falling out of the chair...
> 
> Last question for now if I can ask - does it make sense that with the 8gb x 8 3600mhz CL16 kit, CBR15 and 20 scores would be consistently slightly lower than with the 16gb x 4 3200mhz CL14 kit?


run 1.4-1,45V on the sticks. On x299 VSA and vccio should be <1V and 1.05V respectively. X299 is not anything like z390 or 1151 boards in how VSA is used.
*Clear cmos when changing sticks (always)*. Enter manual primary timings, command rate 2, Vdimm to 1.45V, VSA and and VCCIO on Auto. See if this boots.


----------



## Jawnathin

Nizzen said:


> 100GB/s with x299 is bad. 122GB/s is good
> 
> Hvat MB du you have? 4000mhz is pretty easy on x299 with b-die/e-die.


122GB/s would be nice but I am not exactly starving for bandwidth with 100GB/s 

Mobo is a Rampage VI Apex, wish I knew what was up with those DIMM slots!


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## sword fan

reachthesky said:


> Can I consider this stable?


I'm FAR from an expert, but I like to do at least 2000% coverage on HCI and a couple runs on GSAT before I consider my RAM pretty stable. I then run OCCT large data set for 8-10 hours to make sure its jiving with my cpu and cache oc. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Kalm_Traveler

Jpmboy said:


> run 1.4-1,45V on the sticks. On x299 VSA and vccio should be <1V and 1.05V respectively. X299 is not anything like z390 or 1151 boards in how VSA is used.
> *Clear cmos when changing sticks (always)*. Enter manual primary timings, command rate 2, Vdimm to 1.45V, VSA and and VCCIO on Auto. See if this boots.


As always thank you sir - I can definitely try those settings.

So far I'm 13 hours in with no issues with 1.400v on vDIMM. I didn't monkey with the SA or VCCIO but they were already at 1.10v and 1.05v respectively from before (totally didn't even think to clear CMOS but I can do that - just need to make sure I write down everything that I changed before wiping it this time!)

Funny thing is immediately after swapping it didn't have any issue POSTing and even auto switched to the 3600mhz XMP profile (showing 3603mhz in BIOS).

IIRC at least with the 16gb x 4 3200mhz CL14 kit, I had always left SA and VCCIO on auto until Decembers crashventure and they were both more like 1.2-1.25v but can definitely give that a go.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## sword fan

reachthesky said:


> That seems like alot of testing. Any idea what the minimum amount of testing would be if all I use my cpu for is 1080p gaming? i'm looking at the front page of this thread and i'm seeing ram overclocks that went through HCI to 200%. Did the standard really change by 10x? Not sure what to go by.



Well, you also see some posts by people who got an error in HCI after 1000%. Also some games, even at 1080p res, are very heavy cpu and ram wise and I've read here of people still getting crashes in game even after testing with Karhu and HCI for many passes. I think its about bombarding your system with as many different tests and variables as possible to cover all your bases. After all, even if all you do is game unstable ram can cause os corruption and force you to have to reinstall everything which obviously sucks.


----------



## Lalka228

I wanna share with you with my friend’s system, which I helped set up.

Memory: Gskill Trident Z Royal , 4 x 8gb kit, XMP 4000 mhz 17-17

24/7 system, Dram 1.5v, Io/Sa - auto. Minimum values are unknown, there was no need to find them. But It is known that 1.45 Dram voltage is unstable.

Shadow of the tomb raider - dx 12, 720p, anti aliasing off, Lowest preset


----------



## Lalka228

Jpmboy said:


> Welcome to OCN!
> Looks like a good setup you got there,


Oh, thnx. But now i have another trouble. I tried to find out the truth about DR and SR in 24/7 use in game. I mean when SR 2*8gb normally overclocked to 4500 16-16 or smth.


----------



## Jpmboy

Lalka228 said:


> Oh, thnx. But now i have another trouble. I tried to find out the truth about DR and SR in 24/7 use in game. I mean when SR 2*8gb normally overclocked to 4500 16-16 or smth.


for gaming work on lowering memory latency either by increasing frequency or lowing/tightening timings. :thumb:


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

Running these on my Apex X at 4400c16 (or 4600c17). Higher frequencies just require too much VSA/VCCIO on z370 for my liking.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Nizzen

reachthesky said:


> I really wish there was an apex with 4 dimm slots ><.


Asus X299 Apex


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> I really wish there was an apex with 4 dimm slots ><.


would be really noice, but 4 slots just can't do these frequencies as easily (if _easy _even applies with 2 slots)


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> That seems like alot of testing. Any idea what the minimum amount of testing would be if all I use my cpu for is 1080p gaming? i'm looking at the front page of this thread and i'm seeing ram overclocks that went through HCI to 200%. Did the standard really change by 10x? Not sure what to go by.


it really depends on how much ram is installed. HCi with 32GB takes geologic time. GSAT (free) or RamTest ($5) handle larger ram installs faster. HCi even running 36 instances is still too slow for 64GB. :no-smil


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Kalm_Traveler

Heh... Tonight's BSOD (I haven't cleared cmos, will do that if it crashes again) but found that this 3600mhz CL16 ram has been running on the old 3200mhz CL14 timings, 14-14-14-34


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## satinghostrider

@KedarWolf

Aorus Master BIOS : F11C Official from Gigabyte

Thank you so much for your settings in the earlier pages I got very good gains using your settings despite it being just 2 x 8GB sticks of the G.Skill 3600 CL16.

I used your settings but for some reason I cannot seem to change the RTL and IOL. Everytime I change, it defaults back to 87 for example. This is on 2x8gb sticks currently.

I have attached the screenshots below and hope you could guide me somewhat on changing the remaining settings.

Anyone can give me any tips to improve my current settings?

Thanks man!


----------



## robertr1

@reachthesky

You need to test with non memtest related stress tests also. As you tighten up memory, your cpu is able to work faster which means it might need more vcore or all of a sudden your cache is unstable because it's getting hammered faster.

You can run x264 stress test, occt large/avx2 and see if either is giving you errors. You need more than just a 'mem only' test for full system stability.

My cocktail:
- TM5 extreme profile
- occt large/avx2
- x264 5 loops (realbench is fine for this also)

For me, the goal is to find errors asap so I can tune them out and then start hitting all the systems to make sure it's stable everywhere.


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> So I ran my memory OC through karhu earlier to 3200% error free(saw the recommendation on the first page of the thread). A couple minutes ago I had a system service exception bsod while browsing the web. Unsure exactly where to go from here. Does it need more sa/io?


Looks very snug 

Have you run some other tests to identify the problem?
GSAT might show up your problem and Memtest86 test 6, 10 passes is always a good extra ram test.
Also a few back to back passes of Cinebench is a fast way to identify issues.

Edit: Posted the same time as @robertr1 but same idea


----------



## Zemach

4400 CL 16 Using Sub timing 4600 CL 17 Rough test


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> i downloaded occt. going to run occt large/avx2. how long should i run for?


Does occt help identify the fault? I'm pretty sure GSAT is good for fault finding.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Any idea where to improve? The chip gets really wonky above 4266 :/
Royal 4400 cl18 and 9900 "es" chip


----------



## Lalka228

Can you tell me.... I won in IMC silicon lottery? 
so shame its not stable, i think because of motherboard limit of Dram 1.55 volt, i cant push it higher 

Does IMC really matter in ram perfomance in your opinion?


----------



## Lalka228

SuperMumrik said:


> Any idea where to improve? The chip gets really wonky above 4266 :/
> Royal 4400 cl18 and 9900 "es" chip


You can try TWR 12 and trtp 6 , TWTR (S and L) can be like 5-7 or 4-6 , TWRWR_sg and TRDRD_sg is 6.

Can you tell me, had you try to start your kit at 4500 mhz+ ? any voltages, any timings, doesnt matter.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Lalka228 said:


> You can try TWR 12 and trtp 6 , TWTR (S and L) can be like 5-7 or 6-4 , TWRWR_sg and TRDRD_sg is 6.
> 
> Can you tell me, had you try to start your kit at 4500 mhz+ ? any voltages, any timings, doesnt matter.



Thanks man. I'll try that out.
I have booted it 4600 with pretty much XMP settings on a Mag ace board with a KS chip. My chip craps out at 4533, but its not stable


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> I ran hci and karhu for the memory. Occt brought out some instability as soon as I started the test, watchdog bsods. If I want to pass these stress tests with avx enabled, I have to use an offset otherwise temps are too much(with the ram oc enabled). But then its like i'm over tuning my system for workloads i'm never going to encounter since all I do is use this pc for gaming. * How do I find the right balance? Is occt ideal here? * Currently testing no memory OC and 5g with avx -2(acdc-1/1, standard llc, +120mv offset).
> 
> How long should I be testing in OCCT large for?


OCCT is not really testing the ram as rigorously as HCi or Ramtest, that's why the OP did not include it in the acceptable list for this 24/7 thread. You are absolutely right... you do not need OCCT for a gaming rig.
You should run a high-current stressor though. iBT serves this purpose wel. 5-10 loops. And use an AVX offset. It is there so that you can run higher clocks for non-AVX loads.
Server chips always had hard coded AVX offsets, they made their way to consumer desktops with X-class HCC chip families, and to desktop i7's and down... because AVX2 was showing up in more code and chips were gonna toast.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

3200% on ram test not enough even hci theres not a % required the longer the test runs the better. If you failing ramtest at just %3200 your not stable at all cpu/ram or cache


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

reachthesky said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3200% on ram test not enough even hci theres not a % required the longer the test runs the better. If you failing ramtest at just %3200 your not stable at all cpu/ram or cache
> 
> 
> 
> I did 3200% because that what it says on the front page, same with 500% hci. Why is this stuff on the front page if it is wrong? Why are people's OCs posted if they are only tested to 200%-500%. Why am I given incorrect information as soon as I visit the front page of this thread. This **** doesn't help me.
Click to expand...

Bcuz is there doesnt mean is 100% its just what's required to validate in this particulars topic.. You keep finding errors right? That means theres a problem somewhere you need to narrow to where exactly it is. 

You can start validating the ram over clock with the cpu at stock and whats required to overclock the ram for example that includes io/sa and cache settings.

Also make sure the ram warmup pretty good, turn any rainbows leds off. You can even active cooling them for the test if you want. Trust me after those tests u ain't seeing those temps ever again if all you do is only game xD


----------



## Gen.

SuperMumrik said:


> Any idea where to improve? The chip gets really wonky above 4266 :/
> Royal 4400 cl18 and 9900 "es" chip


4266 MHz

tCL=16
tRCD=16
tRP=16
tRAS=36
tRC=52
tCR=1 или 2

tWR=16
tRFC=288 (+-8; должно быть кратно 8, затем опустите или поднимите)
tRRD_L=6
tRRD_S=4
tWTR_L=8
tWTR_S=4
tRTP=8
tFAW=16
tCWL=16

tREFI=65534
tCKE=8
Все dr (если 2 плашки всего) & dd (если 1Rx8GB)=0
tRDRD_sg=6
tRDRD_dg=4 
tRDWR_sg=10
tRDWR_dg=10
tWRRD_sg=30
tWRRD_dg=26
tWRWR_sg=6
tWRWR_dg=4



Lalka228 said:


> Can you tell me.... I won in IMC silicon lottery?
> so shame its not stable, i think because of motherboard limit of Dram 1.55 volt, i cant push it higher
> 
> Does IMC really matter in ram perfomance in your opinion?


У вас плохо прошла тренировка памяти!

4200MHz

tCL=16
tRCD=16(17)
tRP=16(17)
tRAS=36(37)
tRC=52(54)
tCR=1 или 2

tWR=16
tRFC=320 (+-8; должно быть кратно 8, затем опустите или поднимите)
tRRD_L=6
tRRD_S=4
tWTR_L=8
tWTR_S=4
tRTP=8
tFAW=16
tCWL=15 (Для ASRock)

tREFI=65534
tCKE=8
Все dr (если 2 плашки всего) & dd (если 1Rx8GB)=1
tRDRD_sg=6
tRDRD_dg=4 
tRDWR_sg=10
tRDWR_dg=10
tWRRD_sg=29
tWRRD_dg=25
tWRWR_sg=6
tWRWR_dg=4


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> I figured out the issue. It was lack of vcore.
> 
> At 2133 memory, cpu is stable 5ghz no avx offset with standard llc + 120mv offset + acdc 1/1.
> 
> When enabling xmp, the cpu requires an extra 60mv to be occt large avx stable. XMP also kept erroring unless I increased dram voltage past the xmp profile's 1.35v rating, no errors with 1.4v dram voltage. Should I RMA the kit since it errors unless voltage is above what the kit is specced for?
> 
> I appreciate your follow up btw.
> 
> I rebooted cl15 4133 with the additional 60mv vcore for stability. non avx occt large temps peaked at 94c lol. It's crazy how a ram overclock can add up to 30c in heat to non-avx loads at the same core frequency. non avx temps without the ram overclock(2133) were in the 60s lol. Just crazy.
> 
> The reason why I tried OCCT is because while I was able to pass 3200% karhu and 600% HCI without any errors with my cl15 4133 profile,* I was still getting memory related bsods after passing those tests*. Turns out karhu was a waste of money.


RMA? Based on bios-set voltages? Have you measured the actual voltage with a DMM? Remember, an OC on ram is an OC on the CPU too - as you discovered. It is very "normal" for XMP to require voltage tweaks for real stability. 
I'm curious - how do you know the BSODs were memory related after HCi or RT? .. and not CPU IO ?


----------



## Falkentyne

Jpmboy said:


> RMA? Based on bios-set voltages? Have you measured the actual voltage with a DMM? Remember, an OC on ram is an OC on the CPU too - as you discovered. It is very "normal" for XMP to require voltage tweaks for real stability.
> I'm curious - how do you know the BSODs were memory related after HCi or RT? .. and not CPU IO ?


He needs to run GSAT, not Karhu. This sounds alot like the IMC/L3 cache is not stable. 
If I remember your posts about Karhu, Karhu doesn't test IMC/L3 cache stability does it?

Better tests for this is Prime95 29.8 b6, 112k-112k in place FFT with AVX disabled (crashed threads or CPU Cache L0 errors, this test will test hyperthreaded IMC L3 stability quite well) or 256k-512k AVX disabled (with or without in-place, if in-place is disabled, a small part of RAM allocated, like 10%).

And errors with virtualized instruction registers (L0 cache) are related to hyperthreaded cores, which is heavily controlled by the IMC/L3 cache. Unless the BSOD is "memory_management", it could very well be related to that.
What BSOD's were showing up? If it's system service exception, IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL or something, that possibly isn't caused by the DRAM itself.


----------



## satinghostrider

Anyone able to better the timings as attached? Got that from @KedarWolf. Running the f4-3600c16d 16gb kit. (2x8gb) Getting in another pair next week. Board is Aorus Master on F11c official Gigabyte BIOS.

Thanks in advance Guys!


----------



## Lalka228

satinghostrider said:


> Anyone able to better the timings as attached? Got that from @KedarWolf. Running the f4-3600c16d 16gb kit. (2x8gb) Getting in another pair next week. Board is Aorus Master on F11c official Gigabyte BIOS.
> 
> Thanks in advance Guys!


Hi, you have a good kit, increase a voltage for 4133mhz 16-16. I think its the best first option. If it does not work out then calibrate TRTP / TWR - its 1/2 so try 6-12 or 8-16.


----------



## wholeeo

wholeeo said:


> Can anyone help me push this kit a bit further. I never expected much from this set as it was just purchased to have 64GB of memory but I'm happy I've been able to go from 3200 to 3600 and tighten secondary and tertiary timings. I'm really trying to hit sub 45 latency. I'd be happy with 44.9. The closest I've gotten has been 45.0. Here are my settings.


All it took was a clean install of W10..lol I guess I was due.


----------



## satinghostrider

Lalka228 said:


> satinghostrider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone able to better the timings as attached? Got that from @KedarWolf. Running the f4-3600c16d 16gb kit. (2x8gb) Getting in another pair next week. Board is Aorus Master on F11c official Gigabyte BIOS.
> 
> Thanks in advance Guys!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, you have a good kit, increase a voltage for 4133mhz 16-16. I think its the best first option. If it does not work out then calibrate TRTP / TWR - its 1/2 so try 6-12 or 8-16.
Click to expand...

Thanks man! Do you know what voltage I should be pumping it to for CL16? Do you have the full timings and sub timings for that? I dont seem to be able to find Gen. or Nammi's one.


----------



## hotrod717

Jpmboy said:


> hey bud.. you playing in Freezer burn 3?


I'll take another look. Don't think i have compatible or competitive hardware for that,
Patriot is a no bueno on z270. 
,


----------



## satinghostrider

Lalka228 said:


> Hi, you have a good kit, increase a voltage for 4133mhz 16-16. I think its the best first option. If it does not work out then calibrate TRTP / TWR - its 1/2 so try 6-12 or 8-16.


Thanks a billion! Will try that when I get home after work.


----------



## Jpmboy

hotrod717 said:


> I'll take another look. Don't think i have compatible or competitive hardware for that,
> Patriot is a no bueno on z270.
> ,


I got a 580 if you wanna bench LN2...


----------



## Kalm_Traveler

@Jpmboy hey bud this 7960x with the new 8gb x 8 3600mhz CL16 kit h as been rock solid for 3 days now since dropping the SA and VCCIO back to Auto like you said, and bumping the VDIMM up to 1.44v (XMP profile only set it to 1.35v). Not sure if I should try backing cache down from 1.220v but everything seems happy now so I almost just want to leave it be until the 10980xe arrives and I can swap in that R6E Omega.


----------



## Jpmboy

If it's behaving well why do anything more until the 10980XE comes in?


----------



## Grizzly111

Guys, need some help stabilising my overclock! I have the same kit as Kedarwolf (Gskill 3600 C16-16-16 4x8gb) @ 1.45v and 1.20v VCCIO, 1.25 VCCSA. Getting errors with Testmem5 when I touch tRFC....any tips on how to stablise this at 4000Mhz? Im running a i9 9900k @ 4.9Ghz, Aorus Master with F11C modded BIOS (same as Kedarwolf).


----------



## AndrejB

Grizzly111 said:


> Guys, need some help stabilising my overclock! I have the same kit as Kedarwolf (Gskill 3600 C16-16-16 4x8gb) @ 1.45v and 1.20v VCCIO, 1.25 VCCSA. Getting errors with Testmem5 when I touch tRFC....any tips on how to stablise this at 4000Mhz? Im running a i9 9900k @ 4.9Ghz, Aorus Master with F11C modded BIOS (same as Kedarwolf).


Try setting the rtt values to the values of your xmp (if you haven't already) or try 1.23sa and 1.22io

For example my board set 80/80/20/20/40/40 when on xmp, but would set these to 60/60/20/20/40/40 when increasing the freq


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> Guys, need some help stabilising my overclock! I have the same kit as Kedarwolf (Gskill 3600 C16-16-16 4x8gb) @ 1.45v and 1.20v VCCIO, 1.25 VCCSA. Getting errors with Testmem5 when I touch tRFC....any tips on how to stablise this at 4000Mhz? Im running a i9 9900k @ 4.9Ghz, Aorus Master with F11C modded BIOS (same as Kedarwolf).


You can take the voltages up temporarily, say 1.3v io and sa and tune the ram and then lower them gradually to see what you actually require for stability at higher clocks.
There is a general memory guide link in my sig 

Edit: The tRFC and tREFI could be tweaked to give better Aida64 results.


----------



## satinghostrider

Grizzly111 said:


> Guys, need some help stabilising my overclock! I have the same kit as Kedarwolf (Gskill 3600 C16-16-16 4x8gb) @ 1.45v and 1.20v VCCIO, 1.25 VCCSA. Getting errors with Testmem5 when I touch tRFC....any tips on how to stablise this at 4000Mhz? Im running a i9 9900k @ 4.9Ghz, Aorus Master with F11C modded BIOS (same as Kedarwolf).


Go for 4133Mhz instead. I find it easier to stabilize. Up your VCCIO to 1.25V as well, VCCSA can remain at 1.25V.
You can use my subtimings below as attached but I am waiting for @KedarWolf to confirm the Trefi as some of his posts had different tREFI timing for 4133Mhz.
Played BF for 2 hours straight yesterday an no crashes. Earlier was at a lower VCCIO or VCCSA (Can't recall) and it crashed to desktop. Upped both to 1.25V and it was perfect.
No issues for BF5 as well.



munternet said:


> You can take the voltages up temporarily, say 1.3v io and sa and tune the ram and then lower them gradually to see what you actually require for stability at higher clocks.
> There is a general memory guide link in my sig
> 
> Edit: The tRFC and tREFI could be tweaked to give better Aida64 results.


Could you advise me on my screenshot below what I can change further to optimize the sub-timings? Any help would be greatly appreciated mate.

Currently @ 1.45V DIMM, 1.25V for both VCCIO and VCCSA.


----------



## munternet

satinghostrider said:


> Upped both to 1.25V and it was perfect.
> No issues for BF5 as well.
> 
> Could you advise me on my screenshot below what I can change further to optimize the sub-timings? Any help would be greatly appreciated mate.
> 
> Currently @ 1.45V DIMM, 1.25V for both VCCIO and VCCSA.


Good job getting it BFV stable 
I don't have that motherboard but I did have the Maximus X Hero which is a bit similar. With the T-Topology it worked at higher frequencies with 4 matching single rank sticks but apart from that I can't really help.
I did get better Aida64 results by upping the IOL offset and fixing the RTLs and IO-Ls to make it boot consistently on my Gene XI. I just upped the IOL offset and waited for a boot that gave me good results (it didn't train every time) and print screened it and manually input the numbers. Boots every time now.

Edit: Your cache frequency is 500 below CPU. Can you get it within 400 or 300 or does it destabilize?


----------



## satinghostrider

munternet said:


> Good job getting it BFV stable
> I don't have that motherboard but I did have the Maximus X Hero which is a bit similar. With the T-Topology it worked at higher frequencies with 4 matching single rank sticks but apart from that I can't really help.
> I did get better Aida64 results by upping the IOL offset and fixing the RTLs and IO-Ls to make it boot consistently on my Gene XI. I just upped the IOL offset and waited for a boot that gave me good results (it didn't train every time) and print screened it and manually input the numbers. Boots every time now.
> 
> Edit: Your cache frequency is 500 below CPU. Can you get it within 400 or 300 or does it destabilize?


Oh nice. I am waiting for my other pair of F4-3600C16D to come either today or tomorrow.
Ok I have a problem with the F11C BIOS not allowing the settings to stick when I play with the RTLs and IO-Ls.

To be honest, I actually dropped my cache from 4900 to 4800 then to 4700 (Current) when I was running stock XMP settings on my memory when it ran 16-16-16-36 @ 3,600Mhz.
I was getting freezes at 4.8Ghz Cache and I dropped my Cache to 4.7Ghz and it was okay. But this was when my memory settings were all based on XMP and even VCCIO/VSA was on auto.
Anyway, what do you need to increase to get Cache overclock stable? Just curious so at least I can adjust the required parameter accordingly when I set it.

Nice to see your KS overclocks. What Vcore and are you using @ 5.2Ghz if I may ask together with your VCCIO and VSA?

Cheers Buddy!


----------



## munternet

satinghostrider said:


> Oh nice. I am waiting for my other pair of F4-3600C16D to come either today or tomorrow.
> Ok I have a problem with the F11C BIOS not allowing the settings to stick when I play with the RTLs and IO-Ls.
> 
> To be honest, I actually dropped my cache from 4900 to 4800 then to 4700 (Current) when I was running stock XMP settings on my memory when it ran 16-16-16-36 @ 3,600Mhz.
> I was getting freezes at 4.8Ghz Cache and I dropped my Cache to 4.7Ghz and it was okay. But this was when my memory settings were all based on XMP and even VCCIO/VSA was on auto.
> Anyway, what do you need to increase to get Cache overclock stable? Just curious so at least I can adjust the required parameter accordingly when I set it.
> 
> Nice to see your KS overclocks. What Vcore and are you using @ 5.2Ghz if I may ask together with your VCCIO and VSA?
> 
> Cheers Buddy!


It's a shame the RTLs and IO-Ls aren't sticking, really helps consistent boots.
I'm running sa and io a little higher than some but I'm pretty comfortable with it. LLC = 5. Vcore 1.252v under load.
I ran a couple of quick CB15 runs to show the voltages and temps under load. We are getting some pretty hot days over 30c here atm so I am running a summer AVX offset of 2 because I had a crash a couple of weeks back. Will remove it when the coolant temp drops again. I could get away with 1 AVX offset I'm sure but it seems to be only used in BFV during the transition between maps, pretty stupid really, so who cares


----------



## Grizzly111

Thanks for the replies guys. I tried Satinghostrider's timings and voltages @ 4133Mhz but Testmem still comes up with errors....


Not sure why Im not able to achieve the stable overclock as I have matched 4x8GB kit and non-RGB too!


Are you guys using Testmem5 v3 to test your memory after overclock? The most i can do 100% stable is 3800C16 with tight timings at the moment.


----------



## satinghostrider

munternet said:


> satinghostrider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh nice. I am waiting for my other pair of F4-3600C16D to come either today or tomorrow.
> Ok I have a problem with the F11C BIOS not allowing the settings to stick when I play with the RTLs and IO-Ls.
> 
> To be honest, I actually dropped my cache from 4900 to 4800 then to 4700 (Current) when I was running stock XMP settings on my memory when it ran 16-16-16-36 @ 3,600Mhz.
> I was getting freezes at 4.8Ghz Cache and I dropped my Cache to 4.7Ghz and it was okay. But this was when my memory settings were all based on XMP and even VCCIO/VSA was on auto.
> Anyway, what do you need to increase to get Cache overclock stable? Just curious so at least I can adjust the required parameter accordingly when I set it.
> 
> Nice to see your KS overclocks. What Vcore and are you using @ 5.2Ghz if I may ask together with your VCCIO and VSA?
> 
> Cheers Buddy!
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame the RTLs and IO-Ls aren't sticking, really helps consistent boots.
> I'm running sa and io a little higher than some but I'm pretty comfortable with it. LLC = 5. Vcore 1.252v under load.
> I ran a couple of quick CB15 runs to show the voltages and temps under load. We are getting some pretty hot days over 30c here atm so I am running a summer AVX offset of 2 because I had a crash a couple of weeks back. Will remove it when the coolant temp drops again. I could get away with 1 AVX offset I'm sure but it seems to be only used in BFV during the transition between maps, pretty stupid really, so who cares /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

Nice I am also headed for summer here very soon being a tropical country but fortunately I'm in custom loop so it's not too bad. I hope Gigabyte fixed the RTL issues in the next BIOS update.



Grizzly111 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I tried Satinghostrider's timings and voltages @ 4133Mhz but Testmem still comes up with errors....
> 
> 
> Not sure why Im not able to achieve the stable overclock as I have matched 4x8GB kit and non-RGB too!
> 
> 
> Are you guys using Testmem5 v3 to test your memory after overclock? The most i can do 100% stable is 3800C16 with tight timings at the moment.


To be honest, I only use my PC for gaming and Battlefront 2 and Battlefield is extremely sensitive to bad and unstable overclocks. Maybe try to increase VDIMM to 1.46V and check if you still have errors. I think I forgot to update I had to up my VDIMM by another 0.01V from 1.45V for stability.


----------



## Grizzly111

satinghostrider said:


> Nice I am also headed for summer here very soon being a tropical country but fortunately I'm in custom loop so it's not too bad. I hope Gigabyte fixed the RTL issues in the next BIOS update.
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, I only use my PC for gaming and Battlefront 2 and Battlefield is extremely sensitive to bad and unstable overclocks. Maybe try to increase VDIMM to 1.46V and check if you still have errors. I think I forgot to update I had to up my VDIMM by another 0.01V from 1.45V for stability.



I've got the IDENTICAL kit to Kedarwolf, same mobo & firmware etc . I just tried 1.46V and no luck @ 4133Mhz. Errors within a couple mins of Testmem5. Not sure what to try next. I must be missing something....


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I tried Satinghostrider's timings and voltages @ 4133Mhz but Testmem still comes up with errors....
> 
> 
> Not sure why Im not able to achieve the stable overclock as I have matched 4x8GB kit and non-RGB too!
> 
> 
> Are you guys using Testmem5 v3 to test your memory after overclock? The most i can do 100% stable is 3800C16 with tight timings at the moment.


Some of your timings look quite tight. If you have not checked stability after each change it could be any one of them, or a couple. This is why you need to test after every change or small group of changes and document the changes as you go so you have a stable point to revert to.
It may be best to start from a known good point, or from scratch. At least with all the practice you are getting you will get a "feel" for your ram the more you play with it 
For the preliminary settings I use Memtest86, test 6, 4 passes until I see one error, then back off a little. It's also a good test for centralizing vccio and vccsa to see if the errors reduce.
If you have used XMP you may need to clear the cmos as some settings remain in the background.
I found Memtest86 to be invaluable for getting fast results. Every so often you can run P95 set to check ram, and GSAT to cover the bases. I'm not a fan of cooking my PC for no good reason 

Oh, and take a break and watch this youtube 



 if you haven't already


----------



## Grizzly111

munternet said:


> Some of your timings look quite tight. If you have not checked stability after each change it could be any one of them, or a couple. This is why you need to test after every change or small group of changes and document the changes as you go so you have a stable point to revert to.
> It may be best to start from a known good point, or from scratch. At least with all the practice you are getting you will get a "feel" for your ram the more you play with it
> For the preliminary settings I use Memtest86, test 6, 4 passes until I see one error, then back off a little. It's also a good test for centralizing vccio and vccsa to see if the errors reduce.
> If you have used XMP you may need to clear the cmos as some settings remain in the background.
> I found Memtest86 to be invaluable for getting fast results. Every so often you can run P95 set to check ram, and GSAT to cover the bases. I'm not a fan of cooking my PC for no good reason
> 
> Oh, and take a break and watch this youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsy04IRIwpI if you haven't already



Thanks Munternet. Ive done a CMOS reset and set DRAM Termination to half my DDR voltage. I'll see if I can do things bit by bit to achieve a higher OC. I have to say it is enjoyable 


I've also manually set the RTT's you suggested to the XMP values that I know to work at 3800Mhz





Can I ask - how come one of my IOL's is always out by 1 but I see others and they always match? Is this an issue with my 'matched' kit or is that normal?


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> Can I ask - how come one of my IOL's is always out by 1 but I see others and they always match? Is this an issue with my 'matched' kit or is that normal?


Mine are 1 out, as are many others. Not sure it is something to mess with or worry about. The tutorial I followed says to type in whatever auto sets them to.
Did you try making a Memtest86 USB stick to test with?


----------



## Grizzly111

munternet said:


> Mine are 1 out, as are many others. Not sure it is something to mess with or worry about. The tutorial I followed says to type in whatever auto sets them to.
> Did you try making a Memtest86 USB stick to test with?



Thanks for the support! I havent used the Memtest86 yet but Im usingTM5 v3 Usmus + HCI memtest + MemTest64 at the moment.


My results so far:



I've been able to achieve 4000Mhz 16-17-17-36 stable at 1.44v, 1.2v/1.15v VCCSA/VCCIO

4000Mhz 16-16-16-36 is not stable within a few mins of TM5 testing. Even at 1.47v, 1.3/1.3 with secondaries on auto.


So not sure there????


4133Mhz is not stable either - I must have a setting out although I put everything below primaries on auto.



I cant understand how others are getting their tRFC so low also.


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> Thanks for the support! I havent used the Memtest86 yet but Im usingTM5 v3 Usmus + HCI memtest + MemTest64 at the moment.
> 
> 
> My results so far:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been able to achieve 4000Mhz 16-17-17-36 stable at 1.44v, 1.2v/1.15v VCCSA/VCCIO
> 
> 4000Mhz 16-16-16-36 is not stable within a few mins of TM5 testing. Even at 1.47v, 1.3/1.3 with secondaries on auto.
> 
> 
> So not sure there????
> 
> 
> 4133Mhz is not stable either - I must have a setting out although I put everything below primaries on auto.
> 
> 
> 
> I cant understand how others are getting their tRFC so low also.


At this stage all I can suggest is getting someone with a similar setup and better results to save their settings to a USB and share the file with you so you can do a compare. Load them and after hitting F10 to save the settings just have a look at the list to see what is different and then discard.
I did this with a friend so he could do the same.

Memtest86 saves having to load windows for testing, so would be faster and more consistent. No background processes. 
I strongly suggest trying it


----------



## hotrod717

Jpmboy said:


> I got a 580 if you wanna bench LN2...


Thanks. I just moved, working on some reno, so limited on time right now. Still have most of my kit in boxes.


----------



## Grizzly111

@munternet- wow I just tried Memtest86 like you advised #6 for 4 loops. Came back fine @ 4000Mhz 16-17-17. You are right that it is pretty efficient vs booting into Windows.


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> @munternet- wow I just tried Memtest86 like you advised #6 for 4 loops. Came back fine @ 4000Mhz 16-17-17. You are right that it is pretty efficient vs booting into Windows.


It's great for the preliminary settings at 4 passes but 10 or more is better when you get closer to your goal. And your fav apps for final testing. GSAT and P95 and then BFV for a week or 2 is my recipe


----------



## Dwofzz

So I decided to try out Luumis Daily OC profile on the z390 Dark (I did modify the cpu and ring clocks and lowered the voltage a bit) But it works great with my Team Group xtreem 8 packs
Dram voltage 1.5v measured
SA/IO 1.25v measured
Vcore 1.293v measured


----------



## basschilperoord

I'm not getting my memory clock higher than 2666MHz on my Gigabyte X99 UD4 board. It seems like it is a Gigabyte thing and that it's simply not possible. I think the only option might be another board, unless somebody is able to help me. Gigabyte even recommends to use the XMP profile instead of manually dialing in the timings in the review referenced. The XMP profile is putting the BCLK to 127, which is something that is not recommended to do as it can cause instability. Again, I hope there's a small chance of making it work and that somebody is able to help me. Thanks in advance.

Reference: https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1740808-ram-not-overclocking-2800mhz-2.html
Reference 2: https://techreport.com/review/28578/gigabytes-x99-gaming-5p-motherboard-reviewed/


----------



## Zemach

4600 CL 17 17 17 28 1.530 io 1.3 sa 1.35 memtest 1500% Room 27c


----------



## Grizzly111

This is the best I could achieve on non-RGB Gskill 3600 CL16-16-16:
4000Mhz CL16-17-17-36 @ 1.45v, 1.18/1.2v VCCIO/VCSSA i9 9900k 4.9ghz/4.5ghz uncore @ 1.21v. HCI Memtest 600%, Testmem5 Usmus V3 10 loops.



If anyone has any suggestions for improvements please let me know - I would be most grateful! NB: The BIOS wont let me drive down tWRRD_sg & dg any lower - it just sets its own value again????


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Grizzly111

reachthesky said:


> In order to drive down tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg, leave them on auto and manually lower tWTR_s and tWTR_l. tWTR_s and tWTR_l control both tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg. The motherboard will set twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg based off twtr_s and twtr_l values automatically.



Thanks Reachthesky - I have manually set tWRTR_L to 8 now! Nice tip!


----------



## Grizzly111

Ok so I've done some experimenting @ 3900Mhz CL16. I can shave off over 1 nansecond in latency vs 4000Mhz at the expense of just 100mb/sec read due to better IO-L's in training with this motherboard (I think this is the reason). Also I can use lower voltage. Check out the latency improvement!


----------



## munternet

Grizzly111 said:


> Ok so I've done some experimenting @ 3900Mhz CL16. I can shave off over 1 nansecond in latency vs 4000Mhz at the expense of just 100mb/sec read due to better IO-L's in training with this motherboard (I think this is the reason). Also I can use lower voltage. Check out the latency improvement!


and dropped cache clock by 900?


----------



## Grizzly111

munternet said:


> and dropped cache clock by 900?



Nah that's just the automatic cache down-bin for powersaving. Cache is at 4.5 at full steam.


However now I am having trouble with the RTLs and IOLs not staying put on my board. Going to reset CMOS and see.


Also what RTT values should I be using...Im never sure what to set these to?


----------



## KedarWolf

Grizzly111 said:


> This is the best I could achieve on non-RGB Gskill 3600 CL16-16-16:
> 4000Mhz CL16-17-17-36 @ 1.45v, 1.18/1.2v VCCIO/VCSSA i9 9900k 4.9ghz/4.5ghz uncore @ 1.21v. HCI Memtest 600%, Testmem5 Usmus V3 10 loops.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone has any suggestions for improvements please let me know - I would be most grateful! NB: The BIOS wont let me drive down tWRRD_sg & dg any lower - it just sets its own value again????


This was me at 4133MHz with the 3600 CL16 kit.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...390-aorus-owners-thread-474.html#post28175590


----------



## Grizzly111

KedarWolf said:


> This was me at 4133MHz with the 3600 CL16 kit.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...390-aorus-owners-thread-474.html#post28175590


 @KedarWolf - Thanks for posting that. Question: Your DRAM Termination is at 0.604v? That's a bit low...how does that work?


----------



## KedarWolf

Grizzly111 said:


> @KedarWolf - Thanks for posting that. Question: Your DRAM Termination is at 0.604v? That's a bit low...how does that work?


Some have suggested half of RAM voltage but I found I'm more stable lower.


----------



## Grizzly111

KedarWolf said:


> Some have suggested half of RAM voltage but I found I'm more stable lower.



Well I copied your settings exactly to the F11C BIOS that I am running and it doesnt even boot! 



I have to back off on a lot of settings or use Auto and I can only get through 3 loops max of TM5 testing before errors happen at 1.47v. My AIDA64 Read results are actually better with 4000Mhz so that tells me already that 4133Mhz is not stable. Very strange as we are using the same kit. A1 layout too. Same hardware etc.


----------



## Uriette

Hey guys !

I'm gonna grab next week a delidded 7960X with Liquid Metal with a Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro (temporarily, will switch for something stronger like an Aorus X299 Gaming 7/9 or Rampage 6 Extreme later). I currently have a G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200 MHZ CL16 kit on my Ryzen platform, and I planned to add the same 4x8 kit to reach 8x8 3200 CL16. Do you know how good this kind of kit can be OC ? I would like to achieve a little performance increase. Dunno if it's possible to achieve frequencies like 3600 or 3733 MHz with correct latencies (maybe stay with CL16 latency ?) If you think from your own experience, it's hard, then i'll stick to the 3200 MHz CL16, which is a very good compromize between price and performance/stability and globaly the most popular frequencies/latency used in the market. I don't want to go for extreme OC, just a little up in perfs.

I'm new to OC, never tried to OC CPU/RAM myself, except GPUs which is easier to me.

TY for your anwsers ! :3

o/


----------



## Jpmboy

Uriette said:


> Hey guys !
> 
> I'm gonna grab next week a delidded 7960X with Liquid Metal with a Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro (temporarily, will switch for something stronger like an Aorus X299 Gaming 7/9 or Rampage 6 Extreme later). I currently have a* G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200 MHZ CL16 kit on my Ryzen platform, and I planned to add the same 4x8 kit to reach 8x8 3200 CL16*. Do you know how good this kind of kit can be OC ? I would like to achieve a little performance increase. Dunno if it's possible to achieve frequencies like 3600 or 3733 MHz with correct latencies (maybe stay with CL16 latency ?) If you think from your own experience, it's hard, then i'll stick to the 3200 MHz CL16, which is a very good compromize between price and performance/stability and globaly the most popular frequencies/latency used in the market. I don't want to go for extreme OC, just a little up in perfs.
> 
> I'm new to OC, never tried to OC CPU/RAM myself, except GPUs which is easier to me.
> 
> TY for your anwsers ! :3
> 
> o/


the 3200c16 kits are not very good overclockers and further more, mixing two kits would make any OC (even XMP) problematic. Mixing "identical" kits is not that. The sticks were never binned together... not a good way to jump into the ram OC rabbit hole.


----------



## Kalm_Traveler

Ok question for you more knowledgeable folks - specifically x299 here, and more specifically with a 10980xe (assuming I get what I ordered today)...

Since I seem to have this new 8gb x 8 3600mhz CL16 kit stable and happy by bumping the voltage up to 1.44v, I'm reasonably sure it will also be fine with 14-14-14-34 timings as it was almost stable with those and the XMP voltage of 1.35v back when I was troubleshooting it. 

That being said - if I'm wanting to squeeze every drop of performance out of the kit, would it behoove me to leave the speed at 3600mhz and tighten up the timings, or leave the XMP timings as is (16-16-16-36 I believe) and increase speed first?

I'm still learning about memory OCing and I've read in a few places that mesh interconnect CPUs seem to benefit a lot from low latency memory so tighter timings may be more beneficial than just higher frequency. 

What say you?


----------



## Uriette

Jpmboy said:


> the 3200c16 kits are not very good overclockers and further more, mixing two kits would make any OC (even XMP) problematic. Mixing "identical" kits is not that. The sticks were never binned together... not a good way to jump into the ram OC rabbit hole.


Then I'll stick to the default settings.

Thx for the quick answer !


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Nizzen

reachthesky said:


> Hi ocnet.
> 
> I recently purchased two Patriot Viper 2x8GB 4400Mhz CL19-19-19-39 kits to use on the z390 Aorus Master. [email protected] trains and boots just fine but memory does not pass memtest and games crash/freeze. Could I please get some pointers on how to stabilize this xmp profile?


VCCIO and VCCSA @ 1.25V
dram @ 1.45v + fan on the memory to take away temperature as an factor.

Try that


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Falkentyne

reachthesky said:


> Hi ocnet.
> 
> I recently purchased two Patriot Viper 2x8GB 4400Mhz CL19-19-19-39 kits to use on the z390 Aorus Master. [email protected] trains and boots just fine but memory does not pass memtest and games crash/freeze. Could I please get some pointers on how to stabilize this xmp profile?


Aorus Master will just not work reliably with kits higher than 4133 mhz. Most T-topology boards will start struggling here.
And don't think running to Asus will help much. People are having problems getting the Maximus XI Extreme (an overpriced $500 board) any higher than 4400 mhz. Only the two dimm boards (Apex, Dark) are clocking up to 4800+ and setting world records. The Maximus XI Extreme isn't getting anywhere close.

See this post. The Gigabyte camp isn't the only one dealing with memory issues.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?116164-Apex-vs-Extreme

Also, as to your question you asked me in the Gigabyte thread, I'm testing voltage bug reports, not memory Dram. I'm not a memory overclocker, so you have to contact them yourself for that about the IOL stuff, since any fixes for that I would be unable to even test to begin with.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> can't even find a z390 apex to purchase.


I had to settle for a Maximus XI Gene (poor man's Apex) since Apex or Dark are not available here


----------



## robertr1

Apex stopped being made.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## StAndrew

Posted my issue here: https://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?p=28304162#post28304162

But maybe this thread will help. 

Components: 
-Asus z370 Prime
-8700k, 5.0Ghz, water

-Ram 1: TridentZ 16GB (Samsung B-Die) 3200 CL14 runs fine at XMP settings and I can overclock up to 3400 without changing anything
-Ram 2: TridentZ 32GB (Samsung B-Die) 3200 CL15 I can run at XMP settings (says designed for z170 and z270 motherboards). Manually stable at 2933 CL16 with SA and IO voltage at 1.25 and 1.27 respectively. Specific kit: TridentZ F4-3200C15D-32GTZKW

Tonight I plan to use the Ryzen Memory calculator to get tertiary ram timing and set those manually but I wanted to see if anyone can help out here in the mean time. 

Note: I've already RMA'ed the first kit after working with GSkill support but have the same exact issue with the new kit.


----------



## acoustic

StAndrew said:


> Posted my issue here: https://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?p=28304162#post28304162
> 
> But maybe this thread will help.
> 
> Components:
> -Asus z370 Prime
> -8700k, 5.0Ghz, water
> 
> -Ram 1: TridentZ 16GB (Samsung B-Die) 3200 CL14 runs fine at XMP settings and I can overclock up to 3400 without changing anything
> -Ram 2: TridentZ 32GB (Samsung B-Die) 3200 CL15 I can run at XMP settings (says designed for z170 and z270 motherboards). Manually stable at 2933 CL16 with SA and IO voltage at 1.25 and 1.27 respectively. Specific kit: TridentZ F4-3200C15D-32GTZKW
> 
> Tonight I plan to use the Ryzen Memory calculator to get tertiary ram timing and set those manually but I wanted to see if anyone can help out here in the mean time.
> 
> Note: I've already RMA'ed the first kit after working with GSkill support but have the same exact issue with the new kit.


posted in your thread


----------



## GAN77

Good Day!

I have a kit Gene XI, I9-9900K, Trident Z F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK CL19-19-19-39 1.35V 32GB (2x16GB).
I can do 15-15-34-360-4000, but I can not overcome 4100 with any timings.
I ask for advice and help.


----------



## aDyerSituation

My trfc overclock became unstable on me the other day at 320. Started blue screening and crashing in games. 

Set it back to 400 and I'm good(tested over night x2). Weird how it became unstable over time like that. Never seen that before.


----------



## acoustic

aDyerSituation said:


> My trfc overclock became unstable on me the other day at 320. Started blue screening and crashing in games.
> 
> Set it back to 400 and I'm good(tested over night x2). Weird how it became unstable over time like that. Never seen that before.


What voltage on the RAM?


----------



## aDyerSituation

acoustic said:


> What voltage on the RAM?


1.4v


----------



## Lurifaks

Hi, is this considered stable? Any thightning suggestion are welcome
Patriot viper steel 4x8 4400c19
PS! Have not tried lower than 1.5vdimm, will work it down


----------



## BradleyW

aDyerSituation said:


> My trfc overclock became unstable on me the other day at 320. Started blue screening and crashing in games.
> 
> Set it back to 400 and I'm good(tested over night x2). Weird how it became unstable over time like that. Never seen that before.


Any difference in temperature (ambient and/or DIMM's)?
Made any changes recently in the BIOS?
How did you test stability prior to these crashes?


----------



## aDyerSituation

BradleyW said:


> Any difference in temperature (ambient and/or DIMM's)?
> Made any changes recently in the BIOS?
> How did you test stability prior to these crashes?


Temps low 30s still. Nothing really changed besides maybe my core clock. 

I usually do 15 minutes of RealBench initially then HCI over night. Also do Ram Test for an hour


----------



## sword fan

aDyerSituation said:


> Temps low 30s still. Nothing really changed besides maybe my core clock.
> 
> I usually do 15 minutes of RealBench initially then HCI over night. Also do Ram Test for an hour


You should think of adding GSAT to your testing mix...I've had errors on HCI as far as 2000% in so I always let it go to 2500-3000% to be sure.


----------



## sword fan

Lurifaks said:


> Hi, is this considered stable? Any thightning suggestion are welcome
> Patriot viper steel 4x8 4400c19
> PS! Have not tried lower than 1.5vdimm, will work it down


tFAW could probably come down to 24. You may have tried this already, but I'd bring tREFI down a bit and try to run tRFC lower.


----------



## reachthesky

What role does DMI voltage play during memory overclocking(if any)?


----------



## Lalka228

Zemach said:


> 4600 CL 17 17 17 28 1.530 io 1.3 sa 1.35 memtest 1500% Room 27c


Do you have an expirience how to start 4600 Mhz on Asus APEX X (10)?
A lot of people whoom i know, cant start 4533 mhz+ even with 20-22 timings. We did not save voltages. Not for dram, not for IO , not for SA. Its just like a WALL.
May be you know some options or features in bios how to see 4600 mhz ram on Apex X ?


----------



## Nizzen

Lalka228 said:


> Do you have an expirience how to start 4600 Mhz on Asus APEX X (10)?
> A lot of people whoom i know, cant start 4533 mhz+ even with 20-22 timings. We did not save voltages. Not for dram, not for IO , not for SA. Its just like a WALL.
> May be you know some options or features in bios how to see 4600 mhz ram on Apex X ?


Maybe the cpu is the Wall? 

4600mhz was pretty easy with 9900k and asus gene z390


----------



## Jpmboy

Lalka228 said:


> Do you have an expirience how to start 4600 Mhz on Asus APEX X (10)?
> A lot of people whoom i know, cant start 4533 mhz+ even with 20-22 timings. We did not save voltages. Not for dram, not for IO , not for SA. Its just like a WALL.
> May be you know some options or features in bios how to see 4600 mhz ram on Apex X ?


what ram kit and cpu?


----------



## Sedril

Hi all, I'd love to get some feedback on my setup...

Asus ROG XI Apex
9900k at 5.05ghz
G.skill DDR4 16gb at 4164
Vcore 1.32 manual
Dram 1.39
17.18.18.36
VCCIO 1.22
VCCSA 1.25
BCLK at 101 which is why the numbers are a tad odd... Just trying to get a little bit extra...


----------



## Jpmboy

Sedril said:


> Hi all, I'd love to get some feedback on my setup...
> 
> Asus ROG XI Apex
> 9900k at 5.05ghz
> G.skill DDR4 16gb at 4164
> Vcore 1.32 manual
> Dram 1.39
> 17.18.18.36
> VCCIO 1.22
> VCCSA 1.25
> BCLK at 101 which is why the numbers are a tad odd... Just trying to get a little bit extra...


for starters...
tWR is high try the same value as cas
tRRD_s - lower until it fails to boot (raise VDimm to 1.40-1,45V as needed)
once you have RRD_s lowered, set tFAW to 4x tRRD_s
you may need to raise vsa and vccio to the 1.275-1.3V range, but see how far the current values can go first.
Probably best to return BCLK to 100 and disable Spreadspectrum in bios. 
Once these initial timings are tuned, we can chase doem other efficiencies.
show stability data 'cause there's no sense in tuning an unstable configuration


----------



## Sedril

Thank you Jpmboy!

I have made some changes..

BCLK back to 100
tWR set to 18 (I put 17 in the bios but it's showing as 18 in the config window)
I set tRRD_S to 8 (will keep trying to lower)
and set tFAW to 32 for now until I can lower tRRD some more and reset...

I did see a slight improvement with these, so I'll keep trying..

Thank you again for your help!


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Sedril

reachthesky said:


> I like the busclock. Working that into my 5g oc right now .




Thanks, yeah I like that it bumps everything a bit... Funny thing is this RAM kit couldn't get passed 3733 totally stable on my IX Code, but on this Apex XI it's been almost 4200, and right now have it at 4133 to dial in as a 24/7... This thing is a beast...

Also just went ahead and bumped it to 5.1 since I was able to without any voltage increase....

Just need to get the timings perfect and I'll be done... I have a couple full custom loops for cooling and a huge Core X9 case so heat isn't an issue...


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Sedril

reachthesky said:


> Niceee. Those apex boards are nuts. Wish I could get my hands on a z390 apex at a reasonable price. How are you liking the board so far?
> 
> Here is my 101 busclock added on top of a 5g / 4200 profile. Just have to stability test to see if the busclock is stable.



That looks great!

What voltages are you running?

I've been kinda chicken to push the voltages up too high on this board, I really want it to last a long time....

I'm loving this Apex... On my last build a couple years ago I had the IX Code and always regretted not getting the Apex after seeing how well it OC'd RAM... So this time I jumped on it right away and have no regrets... I can probably say it's the best board I've ever worked with...


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> Niceee. Those apex boards are nuts. Wish I could get my hands on a z390 apex at a reasonable price. How are you liking the board so far?
> 
> Here is my 101 busclock added on top of a 5g / 4200 profile. Just have to stability test to see if the busclock is stable.


You guys get any funky stuff happening with increased busclock?
I was running 100.5 for a while on the Maximus X and my onboard network adapter played up a couple of times. Dropped back to 100 and it was fine...


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> You guys get any funky stuff happening with increased busclock?
> I was running 100.5 for a while on the Maximus X and my onboard network adapter played up a couple of times. Dropped back to 100 and it was fine...



I didn't have anything weird happen when I had it at 101...

I liked that it bumped the cpu, ram, and cache... Possibly it could have put you just on the edge of stability so things went wonky...


----------



## Imprezzion

Ha I went as high as 102.5x49 for a 24/7 OC and never saw any issues. Benched at over 104 and also, no issues.

I'm back to 100.0 now as i lapped the CPU and upgraded from a H115i to a EK Phoenix so now I can run 5.1Ghz just fine.

Different board but still, should still apply.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## robertr1

Sedril said:


> Thank you Jpmboy!
> 
> I have made some changes..
> 
> BCLK back to 100
> tWR set to 18 (I put 17 in the bios but it's showing as 18 in the config window)
> I set tRRD_S to 8 (will keep trying to lower)
> and set tFAW to 32 for now until I can lower tRRD some more and reset...
> 
> I did see a slight improvement with these, so I'll keep trying..
> 
> Thank you again for your help!


You can run dram at 1.5v 24/7 on bdie no problem. 

Try to stabilize 4200 at 1T. You need to have "trace centering" enabled for 1T 

Use "mode2" as it'll tighten RTL's and give you much better latency. Mode2 is a must. 

Here's my daily. When you lower trrd_s and tfaw, avx speeds up meaning you might need more vcore to keep your cpu stable in avx workloads.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## robalm

robertr1 said:


> You can run dram at 1.5v 24/7 on bdie no problem.
> 
> Try to stabilize 4200 at 1T. You need to have "trace centering" enabled for 1T
> 
> Use "mode2" as it'll tighten RTL's and give you much better latency. Mode2 is a must.
> 
> Here's my daily. When you lower trrd_s and tfaw, avx speeds up meaning you might need more vcore to keep your cpu stable in avx workloads.



But what about the memory controller?


You guys know why i can't run 1t over 3400mhz? Even if i loose the timing, and add dramvoltage. Works good on 2t.
It's like there is a wall at 3400mhz, works fine on 1t but after 3400mhz i can forget 1t.
Memory, cpu or moderboard?

B-die 3200mhz 14cl.
I7 9700k
Asus z390 strix gaming


----------



## GAN77

Can someone tell me?

https://www.overclock.net/forum/28305464-post11327.html


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> But what about the memory controller?
> 
> 
> You guys know why i can't run 1t over 3400mhz? Even if i loose the timing, and add dramvoltage. Works good on 2t.
> It's like there is a wall at 3400mhz, works fine on 1t but after 3400mhz i can forget 1t.
> Memory, cpu or moderboard?
> 
> B-die 3200mhz 14cl.
> I7 9700k
> Asus z390 strix gaming



My board, a MSI Ace, has the exact same problem. Tested with both a B-Die kit and a cheap-o Hynix BFR kit. Neither of them go past 3400 1T but do 3200 CL12 1T all day. I just settled for 3T in the end.

It seems to have to do with trace centering like robertr1 said earlier but my board doesn't have that option at all, shame MSI.

And yes, I really noticed that AVX improvement on tRRD.. I used to do 5.1 AVX0 at 1.220v with the default "Auto" which was something like 49 tFAW and like, 9 or 10 tRRD? 

Now I'm all the way down to 4 RRD_S and 5 L and 16 tFAW and it eats 1.248v now and gets WAY hotter. Power draw in AVX is close to 230w now hitting 185-187A of current draw lol.. I even had to raise the current limits I had set at 160 to prevent throttling..

RAM voltage? 1.50v is fine on B-Die. They can handle way more honestly. I ran 1.60v for a few weeks, no issues, barely got any hotter, benched open air on 1.72v, got a bit hot around 55c but no instability at all and scales very nice (4500 CL16 / 4000 CL13 @ 1.72v).


----------



## robertr1

reachthesky said:


> Hi could you please tell me what role DMI voltage plays during memory overclocking? I've seen various different levels of DMI voltage in different photos posted here so i'm curious if it has anything to do with memory overclocking.


Nothing notable at all on Asus at least. None of the XOC stuff refers to it being relevant either.


----------



## robertr1

Imprezzion said:


> Now I'm all the way down to 4 RRD_S and 5 L and 16 tFAW and it eats 1.248v now and gets WAY hotter. Power draw in AVX is close to 230w now hitting 185-187A of current draw lol.. I even had to raise the current limits I had set at 160 to prevent throttling..
> .


Good to see additional validation of this. Much appreciated.


----------



## Lurifaks

Finally dialed this in @ 1.25vccio , 1.25vccsa and 1.5vdimm

Suggestions to get better latency ?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Lurifaks

reachthesky said:


> Looks good! To decrease latency from there are increasing your cache ratio, or try lowering trfc to 331 or going to cl16. You could also try booting 1T. I'm not sure if lowering tcwl(twcl?) would help or not. Each extra 100mhz on the cache will improve latency by about .3 NS on the 9900k. It may require more vcore/IO/SA for you to be stable though.


Thank you once again, will test after a gaming session


----------



## sword fan

This seems to be close to all I can squeeze out of these on this meh board. Trying to dial in trefi a bit more but 48000 wasn't quite stable at this trfc which as low as I'm willing to go, personally. Forgot to take a screen of the aida64 bench, but I only have the free version anyway...was @ 59500 read, 38.8 ns latency. Gonna try to work on rtl/iol but the board didn't seem to hot on higher iol offset when I've fiddled with it.


----------



## Sedril

robertr1 said:


> You can run dram at 1.5v 24/7 on bdie no problem.
> 
> Try to stabilize 4200 at 1T. You need to have "trace centering" enabled for 1T
> 
> Use "mode2" as it'll tighten RTL's and give you much better latency. Mode2 is a must.
> 
> Here's my daily. When you lower trrd_s and tfaw, avx speeds up meaning you might need more vcore to keep your cpu stable in avx workloads.



Thank you for the advice!

I always thought 1.5 was the high end and to stay below that for 24/7...

I will definitely switch to mode 2, I know I'm currently on 1... I will also check on the trace centering setting, not sure what it's on...

I did try one time to switch to 1T but it wouldn't boot.. I figured it wasn't going to happen... baby steps I guess... thanks guys!


----------



## Jpmboy

Sedril said:


> I didn't have anything weird happen when I had it at 101...
> 
> I liked that it bumped the cpu, ram, and cache... Possibly it could have put you just on the edge of stability so things went wonky...


bclk can also affect the PEG/DMI an other "Bus" paths, but the APEX is more than capable of holding signal alignment... it's when you start getting into the "odd" 105+ range that things can get tricky. There are several bios settings to help with odd bclk.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> Interesting. Thank you for sharing this. peg/dmi voltage option is available in the aorus master bios. Perhaps later today i'll start busclocking again after I finish some modernware fps tests.


That and phase lock loop (PLL). :thumb:


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Zemach

4700 CL 17 17 17 28 1.58v memtest 500% Room30c


----------



## Gen.

Zemach said:


> 4700 CL 17 17 17 28 1.58v memtest 500% Room30c
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-RBq_iTDo


tRAS=38
tWTR_S=4
tWTR_L=8
tFAW=16
tREFI=65534!
tCKE=8
tRDRD_dr=0
tRDRD_dd=0
tRDWR_sg=11
tRDWR_dg=11
tRDWR_dr=0
tRDWR_dd=0
tWRRD_sg=30
tWRRD_dg=26
tWRRD_dr=0
tWRRD_dd=0
tWRWR_dr=0
tWRWR_dd=0


----------



## swddeluxx

Gen. said:


> tRAS=38
> tWTR_S=4
> tWTR_L=8
> tFAW=16
> tREFI=65534!
> tCKE=8
> tRDRD_dr=0
> tRDRD_dd=0
> tRDWR_sg=11
> tRDWR_dg=11
> tRDWR_dr=0
> tRDWR_dd=0
> tWRRD_sg=30
> tWRRD_dg=26
> tWRRD_dr=0
> tWRRD_dd=0
> tWRWR_dr=0
> tWRWR_dd=0




*Gen* - You have understanding at the theoretical level - that`s good, but you don't understand how it is in practice at all! Please show *your OWN results* over 4500 ram clock.
You have never overclocked in the area(over 4500 MHz Ram Takt), otherwise you will not be written this crap.

tRAS=38 <--- don’t need go high to "38" when Value "37" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!! * Theoretical correct min tRAS value would be here *36* but his *37* is absolutely fine!

tWTR_S=4 <--- don’t need to go high to "4" when Value "2" or "3" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*

tWTR_L=8 <--- don’t need go high to "8" when Value "7" or "6" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*

tFAW=16 <---- his *18* Value is correct for his 4700 Setting becose 16 need even more vDimm!!! 

tREFI=65534 <---- Its Bull****!, tREFI it doesn’t must to be a multiple of *8*, as you would advise everyone everywhere, it’s not directly dependent with the number of chips on the Ram PCB!, his *65535* is correct Value! Theoretical tREFI correct value would be here 18330 but if Ram Temps stay under 45C you can set it to Max Value 65535 which leads to a small performance gain.


tCKE=8 <--- his *5* is correct Value for 4700 MHz Ram Takt!

tRDRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams

tRDRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for Differnet Dimm, more as One pro One Channel

tRDWR_sg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
his *14* is correct!

tRDWR_dg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
his *14* is correct!

tRDWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams

tRDWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel

tWRRD_sg=30 <--- your 30 is crap, don’t need go high to "30" when Value "28 is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*

tWRRD_dg=26 <--- your 26 is crap, don’t need go high to "26" when Value "25" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*


tWRRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams

tWRRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel


tWRWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams

tWRWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel


----------



## swddeluxx

Zemach said:


> 4700 CL 17 17 17 28 1.58v memtest 500% Room30c
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-RBq_iTDo



Nice One Bro! :specool:


----------



## SoldierRBT

Zemach said:


> 4700 CL 17 17 17 28 1.58v memtest 500% Room30c


Nice OC. Can you post AIDA results? What VSA voltage you need to run that OC? Awesome sticks


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> Are there any pros/cons to using both Karhu and HCImemtest simultaneously with the ram split between the two for stability testing? For example:


Probably not... but then each only gets to test a portion of the installed ram with it's algorithm. Only down side could be an access clash since I don't think the ram reservations are exclusive (eg, "split between the two").


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> Would such an access clash cause errors to be exposed faster than usual or am i misunderstanding what that is lol?


Yeah, I would not consider that a ram error, it's a programming/coding error afaik.


----------



## Unkzilla

Hi all,

Trying to overclock some dual rank b-die - 2x16gb sticks on a Asus XI Gene 

I managed to get this running at 18-18-18-36 and into windows/passed stress testing however when I reboot my PC it fails to post most of the time

Occasionally it will boot and load straight into windows , maybe 25% success rate 

I am yet to dial in voltage and am running quite high - 1.35v system agent, 1.2v vccio , 1.5v dram 

I have custom values for primary/secondary/tertiary but haven't played with RTL IOL control or Skew control or any boot voltages 

Any quick suggestions as to what could resolve initial booting instability? 

thanks in advance,


----------



## Jpmboy

Unkzilla said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Trying to overclock some dual rank b-die - 2x16gb sticks on a Asus XI Gene
> 
> I managed to get this running at 18-18-18-18 and into windows/passed stress testing however when I reboot my PC it fails to post most of the time
> 
> Occasionally it will boot and load straight into windows , maybe 25% success rate
> 
> I am yet to dial in voltage and am running quite high - 1.35v system agent, 1.2v vccio , 1.5v dram
> 
> I have custom values for primary/secondary/tertiary but haven't played with RTL IOL control or Skew control or any boot voltages
> 
> Any quick suggestions as to what could resolve initial booting instability?
> 
> thanks in advance,


need to see all the timings. see above for how folks post that up. :thumb:


----------



## Falkentyne

Unkzilla said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Trying to overclock some dual rank b-die - 2x16gb sticks on a Asus XI Gene
> 
> I managed to get this running at 18-18-18-18 and into windows/passed stress testing however when I reboot my PC it fails to post most of the time
> 
> Occasionally it will boot and load straight into windows , maybe 25% success rate
> 
> I am yet to dial in voltage and am running quite high - 1.35v system agent, 1.2v vccio , 1.5v dram
> 
> I have custom values for primary/secondary/tertiary but haven't played with RTL IOL control or Skew control or any boot voltages
> 
> Any quick suggestions as to what could resolve initial booting instability?
> 
> thanks in advance,


I sure hope 18-18-18- *18]* was a typo.


----------



## Unkzilla

Falkentyne said:


> I sure hope 18-18-18- *18]* was a typo.


OOps-yes that should be 36


----------



## Unkzilla

Jpmboy said:


> need to see all the timings. see above for how folks post that up. :thumb:


No problems, will post something up after work tonight


----------



## Jpmboy

did some tweaking today. Getting 64GB to hold solid RTLs and IOLs after cold starts didn't happen until I actually lowered VSA (0.87 in bios = 0.9V). I knew the primary and secondaries were solid and stable... as long as the RTLs would always come up as shown in the screen below (have yet to be able to set them manually on this board). So far, 3 cold starts (switch off the PSU) and a bunch of warm restarts, so far so good. 3733c15 has a latency of 51.3 on average. 4000c17 is the same.


----------



## Hiikeri

TridentZ 4400 19-19-19 @ 4600 17-18-18.

PerformanceTest9 @ 5 x Memory Test (=approx 4min). 

XMP > VDimm [email protected] > Primary settings manual except tRFC Auto (806). 2nd, 3rd & 4th ram settings > auto + DMI @1.30V.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Oh wow somebody throw the ram book of knowledge to someone and here im running timings as low as possible without following the ram god rules and stable go figures xD......

Just for measure 400016s/28/1T oh just wait 12 tfaw can i go on xD


----------



## Unkzilla

Jpmboy said:


> need to see all the timings. see above for how folks post that up. :thumb:


Hi again- as requested

Quite the strange situation - if I load a stable profile (eg a 3600 C16 profile), reboot, and then load the 4000mhz profile - system posts no issues. Can power down / back up again and it boots. I think maybe the way I am loading the profiles is bypassing memory training for 4000mhz and that's where its getting stuck . Post code is 55 when it won't boot 

As soon as I make any change in the bios, system won't post again or maybe 80% failure rate. Have tried a lot of settings now-dram boot voltage, have tried manually populating all timings / values in skew section etc 

Dropping down to 3900mhz and the issue goes away , currently seeing if I can improve timings here to get comparable values to 4000


----------



## Gen.

swddeluxx said:


> tRAS=38 <--- don’t need go high to "38" when Value "37" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!! * Theoretical correct min tRAS value would be here *36* but his *37* is absolutely fine!


Where did you see 37 here when he has 28 at 17-17? It does not matter to set RAS lower than tCL + tRCD + 2 or even tCL + tRCD + 4, but you can reduce the voltage and tighten stability!



swddeluxx said:


> tWTR_S=4 <--- don’t need to go high to "4" when Value "2" or "3" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*


It can be at least 1, but usually with a value below 4, performance drops!



swddeluxx said:


> tWTR_L=8 <--- don’t need go high to "8" when Value "7" or "6" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*


It can be at least 5, but usually with a value below 8, performance drops!



swddeluxx said:


> tFAW=16 <---- his *18* Value is correct for his 4700 Setting becose 16 need even more vDimm!!!


If FAW cannot be 4 * tRRD_S, then it is easier to set it to 4 * tRRD_L! = 24



swddeluxx said:


> tREFI=65534 <---- Its Bull****!, tREFI it doesn’t must to be a multiple of *8*, as you would advise everyone everywhere, it’s not directly dependent with the number of chips on the Ram PCB!, his *65535* is correct Value! Theoretical tREFI correct value would be here 18330 but if Ram Temps stay under 45C you can set it to Max Value 65535 which leads to a small performance gain.


I did not advise making tREFI a multiple, this applies to tRFC. tREFI is simply better to be even. 65535 only at ASUS, all 65534, it is not so important



swddeluxx said:


> tCKE=8 <--- his *5* is correct Value for 4700 MHz Ram Takt!


tCKE - energy saving timing. To protect against possible instability, it is better to set it according to the standard or more (standard 5 ns = 8 measures), but more than 8, unfortunately, can not be set.



swddeluxx said:


> tRDRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tRDRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for Differnet Dimm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> tRDWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tRDWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> tWRRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tWRRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> tWRWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tWRWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel


I know about dr and dd. This is just so that you don’t get into your eyes, and so, the value can be any with 1R and 2dimm



swddeluxx said:


> tRDWR_sg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
> his *14* is correct!
> 
> tRDWR_dg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
> his *14* is correct!


tRDWR=tCL-tCWL+10 or tCL-tCWL+12 (11 or 13!)



swddeluxx said:


> tWRRD_sg=30 <--- your 30 is crap, don’t need go high to "30" when Value "28 is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*


tWRRD_sg=6+tCWL+tWTR_L. I already said everything there.



swddeluxx said:


> tWRRD_dg=26 <--- your 26 is crap, don’t need go high to "26" when Value "25" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*


tWRRD_dg=6+tCWL+tWTR_S. I already said everything there.


----------



## Unkzilla

Had some success at 3913mhz, 16-16-16-32, trfc 320. Either my motherboard or memory has some major stability issues @ 4000mhz even with cl18. 

Still better than I was hoping for dual rank / 16gb x 2 sticks. Pretty low bdie bin also, 3333/c16 (vengeance rgb pro)


----------



## eminded1

hi I got a new board cpu, I had this old kit its 32gb 2x16gb gskill sniper and iv tested them working fine at xmp on another rig but I cant boot this with new rig they don't post even at 2666

heres the new rig
i9 9900kf R0 Stepping
ASRock z390 Taichi Ultimate MOBO
RTX 2080 ti

I cannot get the machine to boot even at 2666!!!!! iv tried everything I also tried disabling timing optimization and realtime memory timing and still no go. also tried typing in timings manually and setting VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.2 and its not booting..

Could it be the IMC on the CPU maybe its just a poor IMC that wont allow memory overclocks... let me know thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

Unkzilla said:


> Had some success at 3913mhz, 16-16-16-32, trfc 320. Either my motherboard or memory has some major stability issues @ 4000mhz even with cl18.
> 
> Still better than I was hoping for dual rank / 16gb x 2 sticks. Pretty low bdie bin also, 3333/c16 (vengeance rgb pro)


that's looking real good on 16GB sticks! Sub 39ns latency. :thumb: Stability run(s)?


eminded1 said:


> hi I got a new board cpu, I had this old kit its 32gb 2x16gb gskill sniper and iv tested them working fine at xmp on another rig but I cant boot this with new rig they don't post even at 2666
> 
> heres the new rig
> i9 9900kf R0 Stepping
> ASRock z390 Taichi Ultimate MOBO
> RTX 2080 ti
> I cannot get the machine to boot even at 2666!!!!! iv tried everything I also tried disabling timing optimization and realtime memory timing and still no go. also tried typing in timings manually and setting VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.2 and its not booting..
> Could it be the IMC on the CPU maybe its just a poor IMC that wont allow memory overclocks... let me know thanks


It could be, or maybe having loaded XMP you have not cleared cmos and then enter timings and voltages manually?
Sure a cpu can matter. Using the same ram sticks and rampahe VI EO board, my 9900X ran 64BG at 4200c17 with 1.45V VDimm. My 10980XE can do 4000c16 but not really as a 24/7 with this ram density... had to settle for 3733c15 (which has the same latency but lower bandwidth).


----------



## Salve1412

How do I know if a memory kit includes both XMP 1 and 2 profiles? I own this kit (G.Skill F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR) and my motherboard (Z390 Aorus Master) shows only XMP 1 in BIOS. Is it a limitation of my motherboard or was the kit only provided with XMP 1?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Salve1412

reachthesky said:


> The patriot kits gave the option to select from both xmp profiles on the sticks in the bios(there was a 4266 and a 4400 profile). My gskill kit only has 1 profile and the bios only shows one profile. Based off this experience I think if the bios only shows one profile then the sticks only came with 1 xmp profile.


I see. Thought it could be due to Gigabyte BIOS limitations, but in fact the official G.Skill page for my RAM indicates only one profile, while the specifications of your Patriot two, so I guess your assumptions is totally correct.


----------



## eminded1

so I managed to get both sticks booting at xmp speeds on channel a1 and a2, single channel mode. I cannot get them to run in dual channel mode... this is really frustrating that the ram slots work fine without xmp enabled... like if I were to run a1 and b1, but it wont boot in dual channel mode.. maybe its an issue with the IMC?? maybe board.. I dunno I reset cmos a bunch a times... why wont my kit work in dual channel mode with XMP on.. it works fine with xmp OFF at stock (2133)


----------



## munternet

eminded1 said:


> so I managed to get both sticks booting at xmp speeds on channel a1 and a2, single channel mode. I cannot get them to run in dual channel mode... this is really frustrating that the ram slots work fine without xmp enabled... like if I were to run a1 and b1, but it wont boot in dual channel mode.. maybe its an issue with the IMC?? maybe board.. I dunno I reset cmos a bunch a times... why wont my kit work in dual channel mode with XMP on.. it works fine with xmp OFF at stock (2133)


Why do you want to run XMP if you can run them manually?
Most people start with XMP and progress to manual as they are able


----------



## Sedril

eminded1 said:


> so I managed to get both sticks booting at xmp speeds on channel a1 and a2, single channel mode. I cannot get them to run in dual channel mode... this is really frustrating that the ram slots work fine without xmp enabled... like if I were to run a1 and b1, but it wont boot in dual channel mode.. maybe its an issue with the IMC?? maybe board.. I dunno I reset cmos a bunch a times... why wont my kit work in dual channel mode with XMP on.. it works fine with xmp OFF at stock (2133)


I had that same issue on my Asus ROG IX Code... G.Skill DDR4 4000 ram, couldn't get it stable with XMP, ended up with 3733 as the best I could do on that board stable... Upgraded my CPU and Board a bit ago and now the same two sticks of ram are happy at 4133 with tighter timings, and I've had them up to 4200 stable.... 

Not sure if it was the CPU or board, but at least on this setup I can rule out the ram.... 

I would just try to dial things in manually and work for the best you can get stable... 

Sometimes XMP won't even boot... Other times it works great...


----------



## swddeluxx

Gen. said:


> ….tRDWR=tCL-tCWL+10 or tCL-tCWL+12 (11 or 13!)
> 
> …..



And again you write crap ..... Sorry but that is try.
There as example extra for you, watch at RDWR and others:



and that Settings is full stable, tested with GSAT and everything other Scenarios and Tests




Everything you write is half-knowledge, without *your OWN* overclocking practice! Show your *OWN results* over 4500 ram clock or like it....
At first you must have to overclock *self* instead of just reading JEDEC information. Several years of self-experiments bring you experience that you can share with others afterwards. Theory without practice is nothing my friend! There are several advanced overclockers like *Jpmboy* :thumb: and the others :cheers:, but even he doesn’t allow himself teacher comments like yours. 
I repeat myself one more time - first try the material for YOURSELF (preferably several years ) *and only then can you try to teach others. 
*

and please - no further teacher comments or discussions from you without *your own results.*

Thank you in advance my frind.


----------



## Jpmboy

eminded1 said:


> so I managed to get both sticks booting at xmp speeds on channel a1 and a2, single channel mode. I cannot get them to run in dual channel mode... this is really frustrating that the ram slots work fine without xmp enabled... like if I were to run a1 and b1, but it wont boot in dual channel mode.. maybe its an issue with the IMC?? maybe board.. I dunno I reset cmos a bunch a times... why wont my kit work in dual channel mode with XMP on.. it works fine with xmp OFF at stock (2133)


Clrcmos. do not enable XMP. that kit is not programmed for that chipset or board - right? It's not the board, it's that ram kit.


Sedril said:


> I had that same issue on my Asus ROG IX Code... G.Skill DDR4 4000 ram, couldn't get it stable with XMP, ended up with 3733 as the best I could do on that board stable... Upgraded my CPU and Board a bit ago and now the same two sticks of ram are happy at 4133 with tighter timings, and I've had them up to 4200 stable....
> 
> Not sure if it was the CPU or board, but at least on this setup I can rule out the ram....
> 
> I would just try to dial things in manually and work for the best you can get stable...
> 
> Sometimes XMP won't even boot... Other times it works great...


Guys - the only XMP programming verified to work on any board, is in the board's QVL. If it is not specifically listed, you should be surprised if XMP _does _work.


----------



## Sedril

Jpmboy said:


> Clrcmos. do not enable XMP. that kit is not programmed for that chipset or board - right? It's not the board, it's that ram kit.
> 
> 
> Guys - the only XMP programming verified to work on any board, is in the board's QVL. If it is not specifically listed, you should be surprised if XMP _does _work.


Totally agree, but I think there's more to it than that.. I think it gets more sensitive at higher speeds... This RAM kit was actually on the QVL list for my IX Code, however, it's not on the one for the Apex, so I thought I might have trouble... But it turned out to be the opposite... I've read quite a few others having more issues with XMP at the higher speeds... I just assumed the higher the speed the more issues are possible... And you're right, if it's not on the list it's a crapshoot, just like mixing sticks....


----------



## Lalka228

Jpmboy said:


> what ram kit and cpu?


CPU: 1) 9600k 2) 8700k 3) 8700 (very good imc)
All this processors tested with two different kits. 1) Gskill royal 4000c17 , A1 chips 2) Patriot 4400c19, A0 chips

dram 1.6v, io 1.45, sa 1.5. Just no way to get 4600mhz ram. BF post anyway. 4533 is ok. After 4533 mhz cheats with bclk has no profit. BF post. Looks like 4533 mhz is the limit for motherboard.

But from the stands on CES 2018 / 2019 - we know cases when 4600mhz and higher worked normally on Apex X.

Any thougts?


----------



## Lalka228

OMG

Just find out a way how to get 4400 mhz on such trash mother board. Its a same as asrock z370 pro 4.

With this configuration i can play, use browser, but hard syntetic tests i will fail.

I think the same feature can be applied for Daisy chain asrock motherboards.

I think i will record a video about this. It would be easly for understanding


----------



## Grizzly111

So is RAM latency or frequency more important for gaming (esp FPS)?


EG: 4000CL16 vs 3900CL16 (less bandwidth but with good RTLs to give better latency)


----------



## Gen.

swddeluxx said:


> I repeat myself one more time - first try the material for YOURSELF (preferably several years ) and only then can you try to teach others.


If it took you several years to study RAM overclocking, this does not mean that everyone is just as dumb! No need to contradict me here, you can’t calm me down. The Russians do not give up, and if necessary, you will lie before us! No offense, I don't like cheeky guys


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

Lalka228 said:


> CPU: 1) 9600k 2) 8700k 3) 8700 (very good imc)
> All this processors tested with two different kits. 1) Gskill royal 4000c17 , A1 chips 2) Patriot 4400c19, A0 chips
> 
> dram 1.6v, io 1.45, sa 1.5. Just no way to get 4600mhz ram. BF post anyway. 4533 is ok. After 4533 mhz cheats with bclk has no profit. BF post. Looks like 4533 mhz is the limit for motherboard.
> 
> But from the stands on CES 2018 / 2019 - we know cases when 4600mhz and higher worked normally on Apex X.
> 
> Any thougts?


I have no problem getting my Apex X to boot and run at 4600 or 4800 with a 3200c14 kit, a 3600c15 kit and a 4800c17 kit (all GSkill, sammy B except the 3600c15 which are D), but all require VSA (_system _agent) much too high on this _chipset _for my liking. I posted 4600 in this thread with either an 8700K or an 8086K with GSAT data. 4800c17, also posted in this thread, was windows stable but not GSAt stable and required very long RTLs which make it slower than it should be... which is what you'll find if you get it to work. If you are judging vs "CES booth" information... stop believing.
wth is "BF Post" You mean Q-code BF?


----------



## Falkentyne

Spoiler






swddeluxx said:


> *Gen* - You have understanding at the theoretical level - that`s good, but you don't understand how it is in practice at all! Please show *your OWN results* over 4500 ram clock.
> You have never overclocked in the area(over 4500 MHz Ram Takt), otherwise you will not be written this crap.
> 
> tRAS=38 <--- don’t need go high to "38" when Value "37" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!! * Theoretical correct min tRAS value would be here *36* but his *37* is absolutely fine!
> 
> tWTR_S=4 <--- don’t need to go high to "4" when Value "2" or "3" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> tWTR_L=8 <--- don’t need go high to "8" when Value "7" or "6" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> tFAW=16 <---- his *18* Value is correct for his 4700 Setting becose 16 need even more vDimm!!!
> 
> tREFI=65534 <---- Its Bull****!, tREFI it doesn’t must to be a multiple of *8*, as you would advise everyone everywhere, it’s not directly dependent with the number of chips on the Ram PCB!, his *65535* is correct Value! Theoretical tREFI correct value would be here 18330 but if Ram Temps stay under 45C you can set it to Max Value 65535 which leads to a small performance gain.
> 
> 
> tCKE=8 <--- his *5* is correct Value for 4700 MHz Ram Takt!
> 
> tRDRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tRDRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for Differnet Dimm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> tRDWR_sg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
> his *14* is correct!
> 
> tRDWR_dg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
> his *14* is correct!
> 
> tRDWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tRDWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> tWRRD_sg=30 <--- your 30 is crap, don’t need go high to "30" when Value "28 is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> tWRRD_dg=26 <--- your 26 is crap, don’t need go high to "26" when Value "25" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> 
> tWRRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tWRRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> 
> tWRWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tWRWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel





swddeluxx said:


> *Gen* - You have understanding at the theoretical level - that`s good, but you don't understand how it is in practice at all! Please show *your OWN results* over 4500 ram clock.
> You have never overclocked in the area(over 4500 MHz Ram Takt), otherwise you will not be written this crap.
> 
> tRAS=38 <--- don’t need go high to "38" when Value "37" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!! * Theoretical correct min tRAS value would be here *36* but his *37* is absolutely fine!
> 
> tWTR_S=4 <--- don’t need to go high to "4" when Value "2" or "3" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> tWTR_L=8 <--- don’t need go high to "8" when Value "7" or "6" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> tFAW=16 <---- his *18* Value is correct for his 4700 Setting becose 16 need even more vDimm!!!
> 
> tREFI=65534 <---- Its Bull****!, tREFI it doesn’t must to be a multiple of *8*, as you would advise everyone everywhere, it’s not directly dependent with the number of chips on the Ram PCB!, his *65535* is correct Value! Theoretical tREFI correct value would be here 18330 but if Ram Temps stay under 45C you can set it to Max Value 65535 which leads to a small performance gain.
> 
> 
> tCKE=8 <--- his *5* is correct Value for 4700 MHz Ram Takt!
> 
> tRDRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tRDRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for Differnet Dimm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> tRDWR_sg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
> his *14* is correct!
> 
> tRDWR_dg=11 <--- your 11 is crap, is to tight for this Ram 4700 Takt
> his *14* is correct!
> 
> tRDWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tRDWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> tWRRD_sg=30 <--- your 30 is crap, don’t need go high to "30" when Value "28 is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> tWRRD_dg=26 <--- your 26 is crap, don’t need go high to "26" when Value "25" is stable and it’s already tested, *ANYONE Ram Kit have different quality and and how tight this timing can be pressed depends on it! --- Of Chips Quality!!!*
> 
> 
> tWRRD_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tWRRD_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel
> 
> 
> tWRWR_dr=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dr* - Timing relevant only for *D*ua*R*ank Rams
> 
> tWRWR_dd=0 <--- yes 0 is correct, becose *_dd* - Timing relevant only for *D*iffernet *D*imm, more as One pro One Channel





swddeluxx said:


> And again you write crap ..... Sorry but that is try.
> There as example extra for you, watch at RDWR and others:
> 
> 
> 
> and that Settings is full stable, tested with GSAT and everything other Scenarios and Tests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything you write is half-knowledge, without *your OWN* overclocking practice! Show your *OWN results* over 4500 ram clock or like it....
> At first you must have to overclock *self* instead of just reading JEDEC information. Several years of self-experiments bring you experience that you can share with others afterwards. Theory without practice is nothing my friend! There are several advanced overclockers like *Jpmboy* :thumb: and the others :cheers:, but even he doesn’t allow himself teacher comments like yours.
> I repeat myself one more time - first try the material for YOURSELF (preferably several years ) *and only then can you try to teach others.
> *
> 
> and please - no further teacher comments or discussions from you without *your own results.*
> 
> Thank you in advance my frind.






Please stop insulting Gen. with your rude, selfish, elitist attitude. @Gen. is NOT wrong. You sound like a very angry man, dealing with diaper issues.


----------



## Jpmboy

Grizzly111 said:


> So is RAM latency or frequency more important for gaming (esp FPS)?
> EG: 4000CL16 vs 3900CL16 (less bandwidth but with good RTLs to give better latency)


in my experience... for ram, latency is key since the block sizes are not like compute work loads. But for a well tuned gaming rig, I include more than ram latency. System latency, DPCs etc.
DL a copy of "*LatencyMon*" and check the entire system... :thumb:

Here's the 60sec LatMon results on this 10980/R6EO rig. I'm not sayin' this is good or bad, it is just what the data is.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## swddeluxx

Falkentyne said:


> Please stop insulting Gen. with your rude, selfish, elitist attitude. @Gen. is NOT wrong. You sound like a very angry man, dealing with diaper issues.



*Falkentyne* - You are deeply mistaken if you think that I am an angry man or that i am an arrogant person. It's not like that at all! - even quite the opposite. 
It's just that GEN is not the person you think he is!!! 
I respect your opinion *Falkentyne* and will no longer comment on GEN messages that he would write. But I’ll say it once now - you will change your mind over time and you will understand that I was right and also why I wrote such a comment regarding GEN. Just remember this moment for yourself. That is all I wanted to tell you *Falkentyne*.

with regards
swddeluxx


----------



## dumonde777

Hello! Please help me adjust the correct parameters for such a memory!

G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4000C19-16GTRG 
CL19-19-19-39 1.35V
32GB (2x16GB)

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL19-19-19-39-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB)

Please tell me what can be changed in the settings!


----------



## Grizzly111

Jpmboy said:


> in my experience... for ram, latency is key since the block sizes are not like compute work loads. But for a well tuned gaming rig, I include more than ram latency. System latency, DPCs etc.
> DL a copy of "*LatencyMon*" and check the entire system... :thumb:
> 
> Here's the 60sec LatMon results on this 10980/R6EO rig. I'm not sayin' this is good or bad, it is just what the data is.



Very interesting! What are you thoughts on assigning CPU core affinity to the GPU on different cores?


----------



## Lalka228

dumonde777 said:


> Hello! Please help me adjust the correct parameters for such a memory!
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4000C19-16GTRG
> CL19-19-19-39 1.35V
> 32GB (2x16GB)
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL19-19-19-39-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB)
> 
> Please tell me what can be changed in the settings!


take a boost from Dram voltage. 1.36 extremely low. Set 1.5v for dram and overclock it normally, IO and SA leave in auto. When you finally overclock RAM then decrease voltages.


----------



## Lalka228

Jpmboy said:


> I have no problem getting my Apex X to boot and run at 4600 or 4800 with a 3200c14 kit, a 3600c15 kit and a 4800c17 kit (all GSkill, sammy B except the 3600c15 which are D), but all require VSA (_system _agent) much too high on this _chipset _for my liking. I posted 4600 in this thread with either an 8700K or an 8086K with GSAT data. 4800c17, also posted in this thread, was windows stable but not GSAt stable and required very long RTLs which make it slower than it should be... which is what you'll find if you get it to work. If you are judging vs "CES booth" information... stop believing.
> wth is "BF Post" You mean Q-code BF?


Yeah, q-code. But it it doesn’t matter, just no start and all.

Ok, thanks. I will search your posts in this thread with apex X.


----------



## acoustic

This is why I stopped trying to tweak memory and just leave it at XMP:

I've been running my 3200CL15 @ 3800 15-15-15-28 1T with tweaked secondary timings for a couple weeks now. HCI memtest 750% stable, no errors. Gaming great for hours on end, no crashes or anything to indicate instability of any kind.

I turn the PC on today, and it boots Windows to a black screen. Okay, that's weird - I let it sit for a minute, then hard reset. Does the same thing; windows circle spins after post, then when I should have the welcome/login screen, I get no DP signal. This time, it reboots on its own after sitting for ~10 seconds.

I go into BIOS, set RAM to XMP. Try to boot in again, goes to repair mode; I try to do a restore and boot in again. Same deal.

Try to do a "Windows Refresh" to see if that would work and keep my documents. Nope lol, apparently a SYS32 file was corrupted and it wouldn't even do that.

I tried 3 times to do the windows refresh but it would reboot during the process and break it.

Plugged in my flash drive, reformatted my NVME, and I'm back in Windows. Losing all my documents sucks though..


----------



## Jpmboy

Lalka228 said:


> Yeah, q-code. But it it doesn’t matter, just no start and all.
> 
> Ok, thanks. I will search your posts in this thread with apex X.


 some examples I have on this drive:
4500 and 4600 look good, but 4400c16 has been the best performer with this z370 gear for me.


----------



## Jpmboy

acoustic said:


> This is why I stopped trying to tweak memory and just leave it at XMP:
> 
> I've been running my 3200CL15 @ 3800 15-15-15-28 1T with tweaked secondary timings for a couple weeks now. HCI memtest 750% stable, no errors. Gaming great for hours on end, no crashes or anything to indicate instability of any kind.
> 
> I turn the PC on today, and it boots Windows to a black screen. Okay, that's weird - I let it sit for a minute, then hard reset. Does the same thing; windows circle spins after post, then when I should have the welcome/login screen, I get no DP signal. This time, it reboots on its own after sitting for ~10 seconds.
> 
> I go into BIOS, set RAM to XMP. Try to boot in again, goes to repair mode; I try to do a restore and boot in again. Same deal.
> 
> Try to do a "Windows Refresh" to see if that would work and keep my documents. Nope lol, apparently a SYS32 file was corrupted and it wouldn't even do that.
> 
> I tried 3 times to do the windows refresh but it would reboot during the process and break it.
> 
> Plugged in my flash drive, reformatted my NVME, and I'm back in Windows. Losing all my documents sucks though..


what you describe is exactly what can happen with unstable or error-prone ram settings. Unlike a bad cpu oc - which just BSODs - bad ram can silently corrupt an OS install and any materials created. Ya gotta test any ram OC, thoroughly. XMP is a ram (and CPU) OC even if you change nothing else in bios.
There's a lot to gain with a good/solid ram OC - don't give up simply because it was not validated after overclocking.


----------



## acoustic

Jpmboy said:


> what you describe is exactly what can happen with unstable or error-prone ram settings. Unlike a bad cpu oc - which just BSODs - bad ram can silently corrupt an OS install and any materials created. Ya gotta test any ram OC, thoroughly. XMP is a ram (and CPU) OC even if you change nothing else in bios.
> There's a lot to gain with a good/solid ram OC - don't give up simply because it was not validated after overclocking.


I did test it thoroughly, though. It was 750%+ HCI Memtest stable, and played a variety of games on it with no errors/issues, etc.

I know the XMP setting is stable. It isn't a particularly high bin of B-Die (3200 15-15-15-35) so I didn't expect much from it; I was very impressed with 3800 15-15-15-28 1T @ 1.5v, but it was too good to be true it seems. If it was still unstable after a ~10hour run of HCI Memtest, then I guess it's not a very good program for testing stability. I do not have the patience to set things up for the Linux based programs. HCI Memtest was convenient because it could be run in Windows.

No harm no foul. I lost my Rome2 saves though, that sucks. I had a great campaign going!


----------



## Jpmboy

acoustic said:


> I did test it thoroughly, though. It was 750%+ HCI Memtest stable, and played a variety of games on it with no errors/issues, etc.
> 
> I know the XMP setting is stable. It isn't a particularly high bin of B-Die (3200 15-15-15-35) so I didn't expect much from it; I was very impressed with 3800 15-15-15-28 1T @ 1.5v, but it was too good to be true it seems. If it was still unstable after a ~10hour run of HCI Memtest, then I guess it's not a very good program for testing stability. I do not have the patience to set things up for the Linux based programs. HCI Memtest was convenient because it could be run in Windows.
> 
> No harm no foul. I lost my Rome2 saves though, that sucks. I had a great campaign going!


It is really easy to enable BASH and Ubuntu in windows. Like a few clicks and it's done. Then DL Ubuntu from MS and you're good to go. :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

Grizzly111 said:


> Very interesting! What are you thoughts on assigning CPU core affinity to the GPU on different cores?


Well sure. But I think process scheduling and speed shift (not speed step) have kinda diminished any gains with core assignments.

Here's a thing about RTLs. Taken from : https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/773966-comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide/
(yeah, it's linus.  )


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> Grizzly111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is RAM latency or frequency more important for gaming (esp FPS)?
> EG: 4000CL16 vs 3900CL16 (less bandwidth but with good RTLs to give better latency)
> 
> 
> 
> in my experience... for ram, latency is key since the block sizes are not like compute work loads. But for a well tuned gaming rig, I include more than ram latency. System latency, DPCs etc.
> DL a copy of "*LatencyMon*" and check the entire system... /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
> 
> Here's the 60sec LatMon results on this 10980/R6EO rig. I'm not sayin' this is good or bad, it is just what the data is.
Click to expand...

 surprise i didnt see nvidia there main offender on dpc xD


----------



## AndrejB

swddeluxx said:


> *Falkentyne* - You are deeply mistaken if you think that I am an angry man or that i am an arrogant person. It's not like that at all! - even quite the opposite.
> It's just that GEN is not the person you think he is!!!
> I respect your opinion *Falkentyne* and will no longer comment on GEN messages that he would write. But Iâ€™️ll say it once now - you will change your mind over time and you will understand that I was right and also why I wrote such a comment regarding GEN. Just remember this moment for yourself. That is all I wanted to tell you *Falkentyne*.
> 
> with regards
> swddeluxx


We are all here figuring stuff out and sharing thoughts and results. On the edge of stability vs performance...

Gen in no moment wrote an insult, while you did, on 2,3 occasions. That's the problem, not who's right or wrong! (we are all aware that different systems will have different results)


----------



## swddeluxx

AndrejB said:


> We are all here figuring stuff out and sharing thoughts and results. On the edge of stability vs performance...
> Gen in no moment wrote an insult, while you did, on 2,3 occasions. That's the problem, not who's right or wrong! (we are all aware that different systems will have different results)


I did not insult anyone, I said everything as it really is. And by the way - your comment is just another confirmation of this. Why did you comment my answer on Falkentyne.
Please stop Offtop, we are here by Intel DDR4 Memory Thread. Thanks.


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> surprise i didnt see nvidia there main offender on dpc xD


lol - shows up for me as soon as a 3D procedure is called. 


AndrejB said:


> We are all here figuring stuff out and sharing thoughts and results. On the edge of stability vs performance...
> 
> Gen in no moment wrote an insult, while you did, on 2,3 occasions. That's the problem, not who's right or wrong! (we are all aware that different systems will have different results)





swddeluxx said:


> I did not insult anyone, I said everything as it really is. And by the way - your comment is just another confirmation of this. Why did you comment my answer on Falkentyne.
> Please stop Offtop, we are here by Intel DDR4 Memory Thread. Thanks.


Guys, can the OT spat be moved elsewhere please.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## sword fan

acoustic said:


> I did test it thoroughly, though. It was 750%+ HCI Memtest stable, and played a variety of games on it with no errors/issues, etc.
> 
> I know the XMP setting is stable. It isn't a particularly high bin of B-Die (3200 15-15-15-35) so I didn't expect much from it; I was very impressed with 3800 15-15-15-28 1T @ 1.5v, but it was too good to be true it seems. If it was still unstable after a ~10hour run of HCI Memtest, then I guess it's not a very good program for testing stability. I do not have the patience to set things up for the Linux based programs. HCI Memtest was convenient because it could be run in Windows.
> 
> No harm no foul. I lost my Rome2 saves though, that sucks. I had a great campaign going!


As a relative beginner at this, I can't say much with certainty. However, during the last couple months of this, I've had errors come up after 1500% coverage on hci. I've also had occt large ( not a pure ram test I realize ) fail or produce errors after passing 3000% on hci and 5 hours of gsat. These cases are likely due to requiring more vcore or vccsa / vccio for the cpu or cache oc due to the faster ram, but the point is there are SO many variables that need testing. I won't personally be satisfied with stability until I can do 3000% hci, 5 hours gsat and 8 hours occt large ( without my pc exploding of course 🙂 ).


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Zemach

4700 CL 17 17 17 37 1.55v io 1.3 sa 1.34375 Room 24c


----------



## dumonde777

dumonde777 said:


> Hello! Please help me adjust the correct parameters for such a memory!
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4000C19-16GTRG
> CL19-19-19-39 1.35V
> 32GB (2x16GB)
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL19-19-19-39-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB)
> 
> Please tell me what can be changed in the settings!



Tell me what's wrong? I can’t load above 4000 (I raise the voltage to 1.5V and still does not load( IO & SA = Auto! MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon!


----------



## munternet

dumonde777 said:


> Tell me what's wrong? I can’t load above 4000 (I raise the voltage to 1.5V and still does not load( IO & SA = Auto! MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon!


Set vccio and vccsa manually. Try 1.23v
Run Cinebench or similar with HWinfo64 open to see what the voltages do under load.

Edit: There is a tutorial link in my sig


----------



## dumonde777

munternet said:


> Set vccio and vccsa manually. Try 1.23v
> Run Cinebench or similar with HWinfo64 open to see what the voltages do under load.
> 
> Edit: There is a tutorial link in my sig




The whole problem is that the system does not start if I set the value to more than 4000 Mhz (For any voltage and settings IO & SA 1.15-1.30( Dram V 1.35-1.50 v!


----------



## Falkentyne

dumonde777 said:


> The whole problem is that the system does not start if I set the value to more than 4000 Mhz (For any voltage and settings IO & SA 1.15-1.30( Dram V 1.35-1.50 v!


You're using dual rank dimms.


----------



## swddeluxx

Zemach said:


> 4700 CL 17 17 17 37 1.55v io 1.3 sa 1.34375 Room 24c



Nice One *Zemach*!

very strong and nice Kit Sample :cheers:


----------



## munternet

dumonde777 said:


> Tell me what's wrong? I can’t load above 4000 (I raise the voltage to 1.5V and still does not load( IO & SA = Auto! MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon!


Might be an idea to do a rigbuild for your signature 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/rigbuilder.php


----------



## wholeeo

Best I can come up with for my new kit so far. Anyone got any ideas how I can get to the 38s? Keep in mind this is 64GB, DR.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Falkentyne said:


> dumonde777 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole problem is that the system does not start if I set the value to more than 4000 Mhz (For any voltage and settings IO & SA 1.15-1.30( Dram V 1.35-1.50 v!
> 
> 
> 
> You're using dual rank dimms.
Click to expand...

My DR 32gb kit behaves in a similar fashion i can do 4200 wirh them but wants looser timings. He can try my 3900+ timings and see if they behave they are here somewhere lol


----------



## dumonde777

zGunBLADEz said:


> My DR 32gb kit behaves in a similar fashion i can do 4200 wirh them but wants looser timings. He can try my 3900+ timings and see if they behave they are here somewhere lol


Can you show your settings please? Did you run them at 4200? What settings did it have? Thanks!


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> Odd question. Has anyone here ever used dimm adaptors with a set of so-dimms on z390? If so, how did it go? Did the adapters in anyway impede memory overclocking mileage of the so-dimms?


I sure have not.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> I remembered I have a set of corsair 4000mhz so-dimms, may get some dimm adaptors and see what these puppies can do on z390.


Would be interesting to see how it does!


----------



## zGunBLADEz

dumonde777 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> My DR 32gb kit behaves in a similar fashion i can do 4200 wirh them but wants looser timings. He can try my 3900+ timings and see if they behave they are here somewhere lol
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show your settings please? Did you run them at 4200? What settings did it have? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Not stable at all tho just boot into win do couple runs thats that..


----------



## mouacyk

reachthesky said:


> I remembered I have a set of corsair 4000mhz so-dimms, may get some dimm adaptors and see what these puppies can do on z390.


Doesn't the quality of the adapter become a variable? And aren't they mainly built for lowly JEDEC standards? It'd still be interesting to see with actual results, though.


----------



## munternet

Been mucking around with T2 4600-18-18-18-38 after running T1 4200-17-17-17-36 as my daily.
Tried a few different settings but 4600 trained far easier than everything else and produces good results in Aida64 although the voltages required are not what I am happy with as my daily.
CPU 5.2GHz , Cache 4900
I have yet to see how far I can lower the vccio, vccsa and vdimm. I put them at 1.38, 1.38, 1.48 for setting and testing purposes 
It's looking like the T1 4200-17-17-17-36 will remain my daily due to the io and sa voltages, but it was fun setting the higher frequency on the Gene XI. Very stable and no trouble training at all


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> Been mucking around with T2 4600-18-18-18-38 after running T1 4200-17-17-17-36 as my daily.
> Tried a few different settings but 4600 trained far easier than everything else and produces good results in Aida64 although the voltages required are not what I am happy with as my daily.
> CPU 5.2GHz , Cache 4900
> I have yet to see how far I can lower the vccio, vccsa and vdimm. I put them at 1.38, 1.38, 1.48 for setting and testing purposes
> It's looking like the T1 4200-17-17-17-36 will remain my daily due to the io and sa voltages, but it was fun setting the higher frequency on the Gene XI. Very stable and no trouble training at all


Nice numbers, what are your voltage settings for the 4200? I'm still trying to decide on my 24/7 limits... I want my stuff to last for a long time as much money as I put into it, but I can't shake the itch to keep pushing it.....


----------



## chibi

Sedril said:


> Nice numbers, what are your voltage settings for the 4200? I'm still trying to decide on my 24/7 limits... I want my stuff to last for a long time as much money as I put into it, but I can't shake the itch to keep pushing it.....



I use the following for 4200 C17 1T.
1.225v IO
1.250v SA
1.460v Ram

Aida64 Read 65.2K, Write 64.8K, Copy 60.0K and Latency 34.3 ns.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> Nice numbers, what are your voltage settings for the 4200? I'm still trying to decide on my 24/7 limits... I want my stuff to last for a long time as much money as I put into it, but I can't shake the itch to keep pushing it.....


You Apex guys always steal our thunder :'(


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> You Apex guys always steal our thunder :'(



The Gene is no slouch! Your numbers are still better than mine... Last time I tried CR1 it didn't work out, I think timings are a lot more stable now so I may have to give it another go...


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> The Gene is no slouch! Your numbers are still better than mine... Last time I tried CR1 it didn't work out, I think timings are a lot more stable now so I may have to give it another go...


There's a good chance you can wipe the floor with my numbers 
What didn't work out last time?


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> There's a good chance you can wipe the floor with my numbers
> What didn't work out last time?


When I set it to CR1 it didn't boot...

Although that was pretty early in my RAM overclock testing, and I haven't tried since.... So it is worth trying again...

I'd like to keep my RAM voltage at 1.4 if I can, I don't really want to go much over that for longevity reasons... I do have SO & SA kinda low right now too so those may need to be raised...


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> When I set it to CR1 it didn't boot...
> 
> Although that was pretty early in my RAM overclock testing, and I haven't tried since.... So it is worth trying again...
> 
> I'd like to keep my RAM voltage at 1.4 if I can, I don't really want to go much over that for longevity reasons... I do have SO & SA kinda low right now too so those may need to be raised...


Trace centering- enabled
MCH fullcheck-Disabled
Training profile-User profile
Mode 2
N1
4200-17-17-17-36 for starters
I also set IO-L offset manually to 21 to help training and set the IO-Ls and RTLs once they have trained nicely and show good Aida results. Found 23 offset to give the best latency

Try that with lashings of io and sa and Vdimm
1.28 io
1.28 sa
1.4-1.45 vdimm
Just to get started, you can lower it after
Zeroing out the unused numbers doesn't seem to hurt anything either


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> Trace centering- enabled
> MCH fullcheck-Disabled
> Training profile-User profile
> Mode 2
> N1
> 4200-17-17-17-36 for starters
> 
> Try that with lashings of io and sa and Vdimm
> 1.28 io
> 1.28 sa
> 1.4-1.45 vdimm
> Just to get started, you can lower it after
> Zeroing out the unused numbers doesn't seem to hurt anything either




When I switched to mode 2 a few days ago as a test it totally cut my RAM speeds in half... Not sure why but it was really wonky on mode 2... back to mode 1 and everything is great...


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> When I switched to mode 2 a few days ago as a test it totally cut my RAM speeds in half... Not sure why but it was really wonky on mode 2... back to mode 1 and everything is great...


I get the same if I don't do a complete tune. You won't get good results speed wise until you finish EVERY setting, including the tertiary settings. I printed out the tutorial in my sig and wrote the best setting down as I went. Testing with Memtest86 at least 4 passes test 6 after every change. A lot of the settings will inhibit booting if too low but not cause errors.
I can't do T1 4200 without Mode 2!
Maybe your problem is an Apex thing, but I would guess they are similar to the Gene.
Can you boot 4200 T1 with the settings I suggested?
If you can boot it you can fix it 
Be sure to back up your good setups to a USB stick.
Oh, and that MEM_OK switch on the motherboard caught me out too. Should be off by default!


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> I get the same if I don't do a complete tune. You won't get good results speed wise until you finish EVERY setting, including the tertiary settings. I printed out the tutorial in my sig and wrote the best setting down as I went. Testing with Memtest86 at least 4 passes test 6 after every change. A lot of the settings will inhibit booting if too low but not cause errors.
> I can't do T1 4200 without Mode 2!
> Maybe your problem is an Apex thing, but I would guess they are similar to the Gene.
> Can you boot 4200 T1 with the settings I suggested?
> If you can boot it you can fix it
> Be sure to back up your good setups to a USB stick.
> Oh, and that MEM_OK switch on the motherboard caught me out too. Should be off by default!


So it's possible I would need to clear CMOS and redo everything to test mode 2 and CR1... I think it's worth the effort since like you said I can save current settings to a USB... When I get some time I'll try this out... Even if it doesn't work, I've learned a lot on the way....


----------



## chibi

reachthesky said:


> THat is an INSANELY awesome profile. 34.3NS! Great result. Best daily driver i've seen. O how I wish the z390 Apex was still being sold brand new sealed with a warranty at MSRP. A man can dream .



Thanks, I'm waiting for the 3080 Ti before I do a refresh on my memory tune with a bios update. I figured by upping the core and cache I can break into the 33 ns range.


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> So it's possible I would need to clear CMOS and redo everything to test mode 2 and CR1... I think it's worth the effort since like you said I can save current settings to a USB... When I get some time I'll try this out... Even if it doesn't work, I've learned a lot on the way....


If you have used XMP at all you will need to clear the CMOS, otherwise you might get away with not doing it.
Yes it is a bit of fun, and rewarding, especially with the Apex


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> If you have used XMP at all you will need to clear the CMOS, otherwise you might get away with not doing it.
> Yes it is a bit of fun, and rewarding, especially with the Apex


I did use XMP as a baseline this time...

That could explain it not liking some of the other changes I tried to make...

I know I'm close to "enough" at 4200 right now, but if I could get CR2 I'd feel better about it...


----------



## Timur Born

I added 2x 8gb to my Aorus Master (T topology) for a total of 4x 8gb. In order to get the same timings Karhu stable I had to increase DDR voltage from 1.37 to 1.38v and also increase VCCIO slightly.


----------



## Zemach

After changing the heatsink, the result was that the RAM was able to significantly overclock.I'm not really going to use this value because it uses very high VCCSA for the frequency at 4933 CL 17 17 17 37 1.625v .
Room 22c Ram Chip Samsung B die Lot Sec 928


----------



## Chobbit

Just some quick questions, I have some Samsung 3200 cl14 B-Die. Just stuck the DRAM voltage of 1.35v and began overclocking the temps haven't gone over 48 degrees c so far.

1. Should I be upping my voltages further to try and push further 

2. So I know which direction to be aiming in, is 3333 CL14 or 3733 CL16 better?

That's my best stable clocks running Aida64 for an hour each clock so far.

Cheers


----------



## Jpmboy

Chobbit said:


> Just some quick questions, I have some Samsung 3200 cl14 B-Die. Just stuck the DRAM voltage of 1.35v and began overclocking the temps haven't gone over 48 degrees c so far.
> 
> 1. Should I be upping my voltages further to try and push further
> 
> 2. So I know which direction to be aiming in, is 3333 CL14 or 3733 CL16 better?
> 
> That's my best stable clocks running Aida64 for an hour each clock so far.
> 
> Cheers


Is that on the R6EO MB? How many sticks? Have to switched off the MemOkay switch on the MB?


----------



## kamyk155

Hello guys. This is my first time here (sorry for my english) and I have a few questions about fast memory and their voltages. 
My spec:
- i9 9900ks
- 4x8GB Viper Steel 4000MHz 19-19-19 1,35V
- z390 MSI Godlike
- 2x m.2 ssd, 1x sata ssd, 1x sata hdd
- psu 1kw leadex platinum
- water cooled cpu (3x 360 rad + about 30 mostly 120mm fans on rads and inside case)

I have a simply question - how to test voltages for VCCIO and SystemAgent when I lowered them ?
I'm asking because I have a new 9900KS from RMA and new mobo - this time MSI Z390 Godlike (before it was Aorus Master Z390).
I have still somekind of problem with temperatures but it looks like this:
- auto 9900KS 5GHz + auto 2133MHz memory - LinX 0.9.6 - pass - about 75*C on CPU cores
- auto 9900KS 5GHz + XMP 4000MHz memory - LinX 0.9.6 - pass - about 90*C on CPU cores
- auto 9900KS 5GHz + manual 4000MHz memory - LinX 0.9.6 - pass - about 90*C on CPU cores
XMP set about 1,4V to both IO and agent and I think it is too high and raising my CPU temperature alot.
With CPU still on auto I tried those settings for ram:
I tried 1.30V Agent and 1,25V IO - about 2-3*C lower.
I tried 1,25V Agent and 1,20V IO - again 1-2*C better.
I tried 1,20V Agent and 1,15V IO - another 1-2*C better but I saw my keyboard application show error - maybe it is from that (corsair rgb icue)?
Lowering those voltages I can lower temperatures of the cpu about 5-8*C but need to check stability.

Tested Prime95 29.8b6 Large FFTs and Mem Test64 1.0 without problems even on 1,2V-1,15V. 
Even when I saw that error from keyboard - Memtest in background showed me still 0 errors and still worked fine.


----------



## Imprezzion

I see auto 5Ghz. I don't like that. What's the actual VR VOut voltage in HWinfo64 on the CPU?


----------



## kamyk155

Here are my last tested settings:
- i9 9900ks stock auto + xmp 4000MHz 1,35V (auto) with lowered VCCSA to 1,23V and VCCIO to 1,18V


----------



## Imprezzion

kamyk155 said:


> Here are my last tested settings:
> - i9 9900ks stock auto + xmp 4000MHz 1,35V (auto) with lowered VCCSA to 1,23V and VCCIO to 1,18V


Hmm, about 1.27v actual. Not bad. A bit high for 5Ghz but nothing extreme. Should be plenty for 5.1Ghz tho. Maybe on a KS even 5.2Ghz.

I know MSI is pretty good with the Auto profiles for voltage unlike ASUS which just yeets 1.4v+ on the CPU but still. The most profit in terms of temps you're going to get is in CPU voltage. Set it to adaptive + offset and adjust offset either + or - to the point it will run about 1.20-1.22v VR VOut load. Test again then. Or, leave it at 1.27-1.28v and just raise CPU to 5.1 or even 5.2Ghz.

For reference, I run a old stepping P0 9900K on a MSI ACE with 5.1Ghz, 1.248v VR VOut, 1.30v SA, 1.25v IO, runs at about the same temps you are running.


----------



## kamyk155

Ok but what about my question - how to test VCCIO and SA when lowering them ?


----------



## Imprezzion

No real quick way to test them except for stress tests and general usage. Prime95 will usually detect too low cache voltages pretty quickly, as will HCI Memtest.


----------



## kamyk155

Prime95 with 97% of memory was stable for about 30min and then I tested Memtest64 with maximum memory too for about 30min.
I know it is too short but I can't test in games now because I'm waiting for my RTX2080Ti from RMA. Sitting now on GT710.
Last time (Aorus + 9900ks) every programs were stable but Battlefield V and Red Dead Redemption 2 crashed to desktop few times.
Tested for now: LinX, IntelBurnTest, Prime95, Memtest64, Cinebench 11.5, Cinebench 15, Cinebench 20 without problems - 1,23V SA and 1,18V IO.


----------



## Imprezzion

Sounds about right for 4000Mhz memory. It's well within safe limits (1.3-1.35v max for both) so your fine there.


----------



## Chobbit

Jpmboy said:


> Is that on the R6EO MB? How many sticks? Have to switched off the MemOkay switch on the MB?


Sorry mate took me awhile to realise what you meant by r6oe lol I haven't updated my second PC specs to my signature. I realised I didn't want to overclock the super stack machine as it didn't really need it and I just want that one to be up, quiet & super stable. 

So I have a second machine to overclock and eventually game on: 

ROG XI HERO
9900K
4x8gb Vengeance sticks (all from the same B-Die pack)

Any help on the questions? Cheers


----------



## Jpmboy

Chobbit said:


> Sorry mate took me awhile to realise what you meant by r6oe lol I haven't updated my second PC specs to my signature. I realised I didn't want to overclock the super stack machine as it didn't really need it and I just want that one to be up, quiet & super stable.
> So I have a second machine to overclock and eventually game on:
> ROG XI HERO
> 9900K
> 4x8gb Vengeance sticks (all from the same B-Die pack)
> Any help on the questions? Cheers


at 1,4 to 1.45V those B-die should easily run 4000 and c16. Set VCCIO and VSA in the 1.25 to 1.3 range and see if it will boot with T2 (command rate = 2)


----------



## munternet

Chobbit said:


> Sorry mate took me awhile to realise what you meant by r6oe lol I haven't updated my second PC specs to my signature. I realised I didn't want to overclock the super stack machine as it didn't really need it and I just want that one to be up, quiet & super stable.
> 
> So I have a second machine to overclock and eventually game on:
> 
> ROG XI HERO
> 9900K
> 4x8gb Vengeance sticks (all from the same B-Die pack)
> 
> Any help on the questions? Cheers


When I had my Rog X Hero it was sensitive to getting the volts optimized. Too high or too low on any of the main ones Vdimm io and sa and it was very unforgiving. Don't know if the XI is the same. 1.2365v sa and io and 1.44 Vdimm was the best from memory for a couple of different sets of ram.
Pushing the ram to error and using Memtest86 to centralize the voltages seemed to work best.
I concur with Jpmboy 4000 CL16 shouldn't be too hard


----------



## Chobbit

Jpmboy said:


> at 1,4 to 1.45V those B-die should easily run 4000 and c16. Set VCCIO and VSA in the 1.25 to 1.3 range and see if it will boot with T2 (command rate = 2)





munternet said:


> When I had my Rog X Hero it was sensitive to getting the volts optimized. Too high or too low on any of the main ones Vdimm io and sa and it was very unforgiving. Don't know if the XI is the same. 1.2365v sa and io and 1.44 Vdimm was the best from memory for a couple of different sets of ram.
> Pushing the ram to error and using Memtest86 to centralize the voltages seemed to work best.
> I concur with Jpmboy 4000 CL16 shouldn't be too hard



Thanks to both I will give that ago, I could see I had some thermal head room but didn't realise 1.4-1.45v was possible. I've also never messed with any other Ram voltages (such as VCCIO or VSA) so will have to actually find them in the bios lol


----------



## satinghostrider

Guys,

Any way for me to improve this?

Am on the following settings :

1.25V VCCIO/VSA 
1.47V VDIMM/VTT
2.500 DDRVPP
0.603 DRAM TERMINATION VOLTAGE

Tried to drop TCWL to 13 but then it gets stuck and I have to clear CMOS and try again. So far with 14 it is working fine but would like to know if I could adjust anything further. Thanks Guys!


----------



## Lurifaks

satinghostrider said:


> Guys,
> 
> Any way for me to improve this?
> 
> Am on the following settings :
> 
> 1.25V VCCIO/VSA
> 1.47V VDIMM/VTT
> 2.500 DDRVPP
> 0.603 DRAM TERMINATION VOLTAGE
> 
> Tried to drop TCWL to 13 but then it gets stuck and I have to clear CMOS and try again. So far with 14 it is working fine but would like to know if I could adjust anything further. Thanks Guys!


I don`t know if u find anything interesting , but this is my 24/7 setup

1.25V VCCIO
1.30V VCCSA
1.50V VDIMM/VTT
AUTO DDRVPP
AUTO DRAM TERMINATION VOLTAGE


----------



## satinghostrider

Lurifaks said:


> satinghostrider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> Any way for me to improve this?
> 
> Am on the following settings :
> 
> 1.25V VCCIO/VSA
> 1.47V VDIMM/VTT
> 2.500 DDRVPP
> 0.603 DRAM TERMINATION VOLTAGE
> 
> Tried to drop TCWL to 13 but then it gets stuck and I have to clear CMOS and try again. So far with 14 it is working fine but would like to know if I could adjust anything further. Thanks Guys!
> 
> 
> 
> I don`t know if u find anything interesting , but this is my 24/7 setup
> 
> 1.25V VCCIO
> 1.30V VCCSA
> 1.50V VDIMM/VTT
> AUTO DDRVPP
> AUTO DRAM TERMINATION VOLTAGE
Click to expand...

HOLY HELL! I tried it and it worked! It is a significant improvement over my last 4133 settings! Weird thing is that I am on the F4-3600C16D kit!


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## satinghostrider

reachthesky said:


> Why do you think tCWL 16 booted this time and not last time?


That is what I am thinking. I think it has to be the other variables that was changed as well.
My only concern is running 1.5V on the DIMM but my temps seem to be around 35 degrees max.


----------



## dumonde777

Guys who know help! Tell me who knows how best to configure such a memory kit?
How to properly configure 2 ranks?
What values ​​can be changed to best configure? Tell me please! Maybe someone has a similar memory, or do you know how best?
https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL19-19-19-39-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB

Now like that


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Falkentyne said:


> eminded1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> im having a problem overclocking my ram.... I got the Gskill Sniper X Ram specs below but I tried putting the VCCIO and VCCSA up to 1.3, no dice.. also tried ram voltage up to 1.5 no dice.
> 
> Ram - F4-3600C19-16GSXKB 32gb DDR4 3600 2x16gb its Hynix c Die
> 
> The thing is it is stable in everything exept prime 95 largeFFT it fails instantly but the aida 64 stress doent fail down below is what I tried I cant oc the ram... I can even drop 1 cas latency it will crash in p 95 large fft in 1 min sometimes instantly with lloser timing at cl 17
> 
> Heres what I tried
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 17 18 18 38 - 1T - boots into windows failes prime 95 large fft instantly, aida64 failes instantly too just mem..
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram 17 19 19 39 - 1t - Failes prime 95 large fft in 1 min. tried turning up voltages across board and it will always fail at 1 min even at 1.5 ram voltage.
> 3600mhz @ 1.35 - 1.5 Vram, 18 18 18 38 - 2t failes in 1 min on large fft prime 95, aida64 passes 1 hr system mem test.
> 3733- Fail to post
> 3800 fail to post
> 3900 fail to post
> 4000 fail to post.
> 
> XMP for the ram kit I have is
> 32GB DDR4 2x16GB
> 19 20 20 40 CR2 @ 1.35Vram
> VCCIO - .95
> VCCSA - 1.05
> DMI - .95
> Core PLL - 1.05
> Dram VTT - .67500
> 
> Why cant I overclock this ram.. It will not OC and be stable at all!!!!!! maybe its a setting on my motherboard
> 
> Im using the latest bios for my Asus z390 Hero WIFI board. the stock intel voltages for xmp setting, XMP was WAY TO HIGH up in the 1.4+ VCCIO and VCCSA voltages also DMI and CPU PLL were up to 1.3 too. to me that seems too much also iv tested my xmp profile at 3600 XMP timings and settings but with the VCCIO, VCCSA, CPU PLL, DRAM VTT, BLCK Speard Spectium, and DMI voltages at stock NON XMP Settings and iv tested the ram/ IMC/ Memory a lot and it passes everyone with those low voltages at high clock speed ram at xmp stock 3600 xmp timings.
> 
> Maybe id be better off getting 4x8GB of some nice B-die 3200, or 3600, and be able to go past 4000 with an oc on the b die.
> 
> I attached a pic from thaiphoon
> BTW here is my build
> i9 9900kf 5 GHz Boost - 8 Core 16 Thread CPU Intel
> 32gb DDR4 3600MHz c19 Memory Gskill 2x16gb
> Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11gb GPU EVGA w Warranty
> ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero Z390 Motherboard
> 2TB m.2 NVMe SSD Intel 660p
> Bluetooth 5.0 + Gigabit WiFi Built in
> Corsair h100i Pro Extreme Water Cooler (240mm) Push Pull Config
> Corsair 275q Quite (No RGB, No Windows, 8 Corsair fans (120mm)
> EVGA 750W GQ PSU Gold Rated w Warrenty
> 
> 
> 
> Upgrade your Asrock Timing Configurator to 4.0.4 (or newer if available). Please /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> And those are dual rank dimms.
> Buildzoid was UNABLE to get command rate 1T working with dual rank on *ANY* board, including the Z390 dark, higher than 3466 mhz. In fact many boards just stopped at 3400 mhz with 1T. Regardless of what was thrown at it.
> The fact that you were even able to get into windows at 3600 mhz 1T shows just how powerful the Apex XI truly is @Jpmboy
> 
> But forget about trying to stabilize 2x16 @ 3600 and 1T. It's probably going to be impossible. No other board can even boot into windows at 1T. You would need single rank dimms.
Click to expand...

Idk man i have a nice kit i use for itx boards she can do [email protected]@1T this is her on my x299 asrock x299M as im testing a waterblock as we speak xD


----------



## Chobbit

Okay so using AIDA64 Stress test (I always run all stress tests at the same time except local disks to get as much heat going) and I've tried all of the below and they booted fine but failed stressing:

4000 16/16/34/2T

DRAM 1.40v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 5 mins
RAM 1.42v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 5 mins
DRAM 1.45v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 1 mins
DRAM 1.44v / VCCIO 1.2365v / VCCSA 1.2365v = failed after 2 mins

Then tried 3900 16/16/34/2T

DRAM 1.40v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 15 mins

Trying 3833 16/16/34/2T

DRAM 1.40v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 17 mins

Everything else was left auto is there something I'm missing?

Cheers


----------



## Jpmboy

Chobbit said:


> Okay so using AIDA64 Stress test (I always run all stress tests at the same time except local disks to get as much heat going) and I've tried all of the below and they booted fine but failed stressing:
> 4000 16/16/34/2T
> DRAM 1.40v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 5 mins
> RAM 1.42v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 5 mins
> DRAM 1.45v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 1 mins
> DRAM 1.44v / VCCIO 1.2365v / VCCSA 1.2365v = failed after 2 mins
> Then tried 3900 16/16/34/2T
> DRAM 1.40v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 15 mins
> Trying 3833 16/16/34/2T
> DRAM 1.40v / VCCIO 1.3v / VCCSA 1.3v = failed after 17 mins
> Everything else was left auto is there something I'm missing?
> Cheers


Did you CLRCMOS before manually setting the timings and voltage? This is especially necessary if you had XMP enabled at any time prior.
Boot 4000c16 to windows again and post a snip of the complete timing set (Asrock timing configurator for the same platform, eg, x370, x390 etc - download it from their website)


----------



## Chobbit

Jpmboy said:


> Did you CLRCMOS before manually setting the timings and voltage? This is especially necessary if you had XMP enabled at any time prior.
> Boot 4000c16 to windows again and post a snip of the complete timing set (Asrock timing configurator for the same platform, eg, x370, x390 etc - download it from their website)


I haven't cleared the CMOS since I used to use xmp when I first got the PC. sadly I'll have to give it a go tomorrow night now. It's happily gone back to 3733 CL16 1.35V but will give it a new go with the CMOS clear.


----------



## bomerr

I am hitting a write speed bottleneck. What timings do I need to adjust?


----------



## bomerr

munternet said:


> Been mucking around with T2 4600-18-18-18-38 after running T1 4200-17-17-17-36 as my daily.
> Tried a few different settings but 4600 trained far easier than everything else and produces good results in Aida64 although the voltages required are not what I am happy with as my daily.
> CPU 5.2GHz , Cache 4900
> I have yet to see how far I can lower the vccio, vccsa and vdimm. I put them at 1.38, 1.38, 1.48 for setting and testing purposes
> It's looking like the T1 4200-17-17-17-36 will remain my daily due to the io and sa voltages, but it was fun setting the higher frequency on the Gene XI. Very stable and no trouble training at all


how do you know when you need to raise io and sa voltages?


----------



## munternet

bomerr said:


> how do you know when you need to raise io and sa voltages?


I don't know anything about your motherboard but for mine...
Pretty much trial and error until I get to know what works. Some of the other guys probably have more scientific methods 
In the Max XI Gene I just set the vdimm to higher than I think is needed for the frequency and watch the temps when testing. Do the same with the sa and io.
Run memtest86 test 6 with 4-10 passes depending on whether it's getting close to final testing and lower the io and sa together until there are errors.
Then raise or lower each a little to see where the errors disappear. Get all the voltages so you are not quite seeing any errors but lowering either one gives errors. More testing passes lets the ram get to temp.
Once you have a base line you can try some other tests like GSAT or whatever you want and raise voltages as needed until stable.


----------



## sword fan

Do you folks turn MCH Full Check back on after finalizing your oc? I seem to loose all stability when turning it on but I don't know if I should have it on or not. And these are with settings that have previously passes hours upon hours of MT86, HCI, GSAT & OCCT large with zero errors. My rtls and iols are always within the same range and never more than 1 or 2 apart in Asrock timing config. with MCH off & rtl/iol all on auto. 

Also (Asus z370 Strix E) I have a setting for "training profile" with the options for auto, standard and user...any idea which one I should be using? I went from auto to standard and had errors in memtest86 in within 2-3 passes even at xmp settings.


----------



## Chobbit

Jpmboy said:


> Did you CLRCMOS before manually setting the timings and voltage? This is especially necessary if you had XMP enabled at any time prior.
> Boot 4000c16 to windows again and post a snip of the complete timing set (Asrock timing configurator for the same platform, eg, x370, x390 etc - download it from their website)


So set to 4000 CL16 and here's the Asrock Timing configurator screenshot. Sadly my Aida64 trial has ran out so will have to find a different Ram stress tool.


----------



## Jpmboy

Chobbit said:


> So set to 4000 CL16 and here's the Asrock Timing configurator screenshot. Sadly my Aida64 trial has ran out so will have to find a different Ram stress tool.


Yeah, there are a few odd timings in there. Are all but the primary timings set to auto? Is this at 1.45V? what VSA VCCIO for this specific set of timings?
THe RTLs look reasonable, but lets see how they adapt to these changes...
Suggestions:
tRAS to 40 or 44
tWR to 16
tRFC to 400
tFAW to 36 (when/if you can lower tRRD_S to 6 or 8, set tFAW to 4x tRRD_S)
tREFI to 31200

The 3rd timings (like tWRRD_sg and _dg) are ones we (or others here) will have input into once some of the basic timings are probed.

the AID64 ram test is pretty weak. Check the OP of this thread for some better, stand-alone programs like RamTest, HCiMemtest, or GSAT (run under the windows Linux subsystem - this is my go-to for ram stability).


----------



## Chobbit

Yeah everything but the standard two CAS latencies (both set to 16) and it's at 1.45v with VCCIO & VSAA are both set to 1.30v.

Thanks for the advice I will try your updates tonight and all them programs need a virtual Linux installing to run?

Cheers



Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, there are a few odd timings in there. Are all but the primary timings set to auto? Is this at 1.45V? what VSA VCCIO for this specific set of timings?
> THe RTLs look reasonable, but lets see how they adapt to these changes...
> Suggestions:
> tRAS to 40 or 44
> tWR to 16
> tRFC to 400
> tFAW to 36 (when/if you can lower tRRD_S to 6 or 8, set tFAW to 4x tRRD_S)
> tREFI to 31200
> 
> The 3rd timings (like tWRRD_sg and _dg) are ones we (or others here) will have input into once some of the basic timings are probed.
> 
> the AID64 ram test is pretty weak. Check the OP of this thread for some better, stand-alone programs like RamTest, HCiMemtest, or GSAT (run under the windows Linux subsystem - this is my go-to for ram stability).


----------



## munternet

Windows 10 has it built in now 
The bottom one in the image.
After enabling you can go the windows store to get ubuntu or use google for other options.

Edit: I have these notes but can't remember exactly what I used 
After enabling ubuntu:

"sudo apt-get update"
"sudo apt-get upgrade"
"sudo apt-get install stressapptest"
"sudo apt update stressapptest"

stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400

or

stressapptest -W -M 13800 -s 14400 --pause_delay 14500


Shorten the memory allocation if it won't start to 13000 or so (depending on your total ram size) and shorten the pause delay to 600 seconds or whatever you want. Just pauses the process for stop start stress testing.
Be sure to close everything in windows.
I'm a real linux rookie. Sorry the instructions aren't better 

https://www.windowscentral.com/install-windows-subsystem-linux-windows-10


----------



## Chobbit

I've never used Linux so you know more than me lol I will try this tonight 

Cheers



munternet said:


> Windows 10 has it built in now
> The bottom one in the image.
> After enabling you can go the windows store to get ubuntu or use google for other options.
> 
> Edit: I have these notes but can't remember exactly what I used
> After enabling ubuntu:
> 
> "sudo apt-get update"
> "sudo apt-get upgrade"
> "sudo apt-get install stressapptest"
> "sudo apt update stressapptest"
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400
> 
> or
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 13800 -s 14400 --pause_delay 14500
> 
> 
> Shorten the memory allocation if it won't start to 13000 or so (depending on your total ram size) and shorten the pause delay to 600 seconds or whatever you want. Just pauses the process for stop start stress testing.
> Be sure to close everything in windows.
> I'm a real linux rookie. Sorry the instructions aren't better
> 
> https://www.windowscentral.com/install-windows-subsystem-linux-windows-10


----------



## munternet

Chobbit said:


> I've never used Linux so you know more than me lol I will try this tonight
> 
> Cheers


It looks like this when running. Not the linux I expected


----------



## Chobbit

Okay I may sound dumb, I could find the tRAS but couldn't find any of the other options you mentioned in the bios. I even tried to match up the value it shows in the asrock timing configurator like 25 for tWR but none of the massive amounts of of options in the bios have that same value.



Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, there are a few odd timings in there. Are all but the primary timings set to auto? Is this at 1.45V? what VSA VCCIO for this specific set of timings?
> THe RTLs look reasonable, but lets see how they adapt to these changes...
> Suggestions:
> tRAS to 40 or 44
> tWR to 16
> tRFC to 400
> tFAW to 36 (when/if you can lower tRRD_S to 6 or 8, set tFAW to 4x tRRD_S)
> tREFI to 31200
> 
> The 3rd timings (like tWRRD_sg and _dg) are ones we (or others here) will have input into once some of the basic timings are probed.
> 
> the AID64 ram test is pretty weak. Check the OP of this thread for some better, stand-alone programs like RamTest, HCiMemtest, or GSAT (run under the windows Linux subsystem - this is my go-to for ram stability).


----------



## sword fan

Chobbit said:


> Okay I may sound dumb, I could find the tRAS but couldn't find any of the other options you mentioned in the bios. I even tried to match up the value it shows in the asrock timing configurator like 25 for tWR but none of the massive amounts of of options in the bios have that same value.


In the Asus uefi when you look under dram timing control and highlight a timing using the arrow key, it usually says the actual full actual name of the timing with the shortened acronym we mostly use tWR, tCKE, etc) in parenthesis at the bottom of the screen next to the circled "i"


----------



## Sedril

sword fan said:


> In the Asus uefi when you look under dram timing control and highlight a timing using the arrow key, it usually says the actual full actual name of the timing with the shortened acronym we mostly use tWR, tCKE, etc) in parenthesis at the bottom of the screen next to the circled "i"


What I did was use my phone to take a picture of the Asrock timing configurator that I wanted to match, then in the UEFI bios you can match up the full names since I found the short names were either missing or a bit different, but you can match up the full descriptions...


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> What I did was use my phone to take a picture of the Asrock timing configurator that I wanted to match, then in the UEFI bios you can match up the full names since I found the short names were either missing or a bit different, but you can match up the full descriptions...


I can match up ALL the settings abbreviations with the instructional in my sig if that has the ones you require?


----------



## Gen.

RAM 4100 MHz 15-16-16-35-264-2T-65534-1.540VDDR-1.500VTraining-1.170VCCIO-1.220VCCSA. Karhu RAM Test 23100%!

RAM 4133 MHz 16-16-16-36-288-2T-65534-1.470VDDR-1.460VTraining-1.210VCCIO-1.250VCCSA. Karhu RAM Test 20710%!.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Hey y'all, recommended to visit here from the z390 aorus mobo thread.

System:
i7 9700k + Dark Rock Pro 4
Gigabyte Aorus z390 Ultra
Team Dark Pro 3200 14 14 14 31 1.35v tRFC 280; 2x8 in A2 B2; memtest HCI no errors, max tested 1400%+
RTX 2080 XC Ultra
Corsair tx850m

I've had some issues keeping a stable overclock on my ram. My goal is to keep the same primary timings and increase frequency but I've had no luck. Even a pretty conservative bump to 3466 with 1.5v vdimm/training voltage and 1.35v VCCIO and VCCSA. The system will boot, but memtest HCI immediately spits out errors. It's totally fine at 3200 though, as long as I manually set the voltage (recently Auto vdimm has been giving me problems, but manually fixing the voltage to 1.35v, the spec for this kit, runs smoothly). Oddly enough, I have been able to get 4000mhz 16 18 18 38 stable, but I worry that it might not perform better in games.

I have some questions then:

1) are there any bios settings, other than frequency, 1st/2nd/3rd timings, vdimm, training voltage, vccio, vccsa, that y'all have found to improve memory stability?

2) is this expected behavior at running 2 single rank dimms in a motherboard with T Topology? I've heard some say that a) 4 dimms can get better timings and frequency than 2 due to interleaving, b) 4 dimms perform the same as 2 dimms, c) that, depending on the bios version in gigabyte mobos, 4 dimms may perform better or the same as 2 dimms.

3) which memory settings, between frequency, primary timings, and secondary timings, help to improve 1% FPS lows in games?


----------



## Jpmboy

KrampusKlaus said:


> Hey y'all, recommended to visit here from the z390 aorus mobo thread.
> 
> System:
> i7 9700k + Dark Rock Pro 4
> Gigabyte Aorus z390 Ultra
> Team Dark Pro 3200 14 14 14 31 1.35v tRFC 280; 2x8 in A2 B2; memtest HCI no errors, max tested 1400%+
> RTX 2080 XC Ultra
> Corsair tx850m
> 
> *I've had some issues keeping a stable overclock on my ram. My goal is to keep the same primary timings and increase frequency but I've had no luck.* Even a pretty conservative bump to 3466 with 1.5v vdimm/training voltage and 1.35v VCCIO and VCCSA. The system will boot, but memtest HCI immediately spits out errors. It's totally fine at 3200 though, as long as I manually set the voltage (recently Auto vdimm has been giving me problems, but manually fixing the voltage to 1.35v, the spec for this kit, runs smoothly). Oddly enough, I have been able to get 4000mhz 16 18 18 38 stable, but I worry that it might not perform better in games.
> 
> I have some questions then:
> 
> 1) are there any bios settings, other than frequency, 1st/2nd/3rd timings, vdimm, training voltage, vccio, vccsa, that y'all have found to improve memory stability?
> 
> 2) is this expected behavior at running 2 single rank dimms in a motherboard with T Topology? I've heard some say that a) 4 dimms can get better timings and frequency than 2 due to interleaving, b) 4 dimms perform the same as 2 dimms, c) that, depending on the bios version in gigabyte mobos, 4 dimms may perform better or the same as 2 dimms.
> 
> 3) which memory settings, between frequency, primary timings, and secondary timings, help to improve 1% FPS lows in games?


Are you attempting this change in frequency based upon loading XMP then simply increasing the freq? If yes, that's probably not a good route to go.
If you are looking for gaming performance, focus on improving Latency. Actually, look to improve system latency which you can monitor with Latency Monitor.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yeah 
Probably just need to loosen the timing just a tad 
14-15-14-36 for 3600+


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Alright. Well, aside from starting at like 3466/3600, 1.5 vdimm/training voltage, 1.35 VCCSA/VCCIO, a 0.010-0.020v vcore bump, loose primaries and tightening them up one at a time, are there any other bios settings I could try to improve memory stability? 

Thanks!


----------



## Chobbit

So found all the options you mentioned but haven't had time to install any linux tests yet however do these look better:





Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, there are a few odd timings in there. Are all but the primary timings set to auto? Is this at 1.45V? what VSA VCCIO for this specific set of timings?
> THe RTLs look reasonable, but lets see how they adapt to these changes...
> Suggestions:
> tRAS to 40 or 44
> tWR to 16
> tRFC to 400
> tFAW to 36 (when/if you can lower tRRD_S to 6 or 8, set tFAW to 4x tRRD_S)
> tREFI to 31200
> 
> The 3rd timings (like tWRRD_sg and _dg) are ones we (or others here) will have input into once some of the basic timings are probed.
> 
> the AID64 ram test is pretty weak. Check the OP of this thread for some better, stand-alone programs like RamTest, HCiMemtest, or GSAT (run under the windows Linux subsystem - this is my go-to for ram stability).


----------



## Jpmboy

Chobbit said:


> So found all the options you mentioned but haven't had time to install any linux tests yet however do these look better:


test it out then we can lower tRTP and RAS... 3rds later. :thumb:


----------



## Chobbit

Jpmboy said:


> test it out then we can lower tRTP and RAS... 3rds later. :thumb:


Thanks for all your patience and help, I know I've been at it for a few days now.

Sadly that failed quite quickly, tried 1.5v and same thing. However just trying to drop it to 17/17/44 seems to be lasting alot longer and stable.

If this works I may have to accept 4000mhz at CL16 is a a bit too much and I might drop to 1.45v & maybe 1.4v to see if CL17 is stable at lower voltages.

I suppose my question then would be [email protected] or [email protected]?

Also is 48 degrees C (120 degrees F) still okay during a stress? As that's what I'm getting at 1.5v


----------



## munternet

Chobbit said:


> Thanks for all your patience and help, I know I've been at it for a few days now.
> 
> Sadly that failed quite quickly, tried 1.5v and same thing. However just trying to drop it to 17/17/44 seems to be lasting alot longer and stable.
> 
> If this works I may have to accept 4000mhz at CL16 is a a bit too much and I might drop to 1.45v & maybe 1.4v to see if CL17 is stable at lower voltages.
> 
> I suppose my question then would be [email protected] or [email protected]?
> 
> Also is 48 degrees C (120 degrees F) still okay during a stress? As that's what I'm getting at 1.5v


I try to stay under 40c for the ram (B-die)
You are running the older configurator. Probably not a train smash.
Can the tRAS not come down more?


----------



## truehighroller1

Has any here figured out how to get passed the dram spd write option not being accessible when using a 7900x on the asus rampage extreme vi motherboard on here? I'm so tired of googling and reading at this point I'm going cross eyed.


----------



## Jpmboy

Chobbit said:


> Thanks for all your patience and help, I know I've been at it for a few days now.
> 
> Sadly that failed quite quickly, tried 1.5v and same thing. However just trying to drop it to 17/17/44 seems to be lasting alot longer and stable.
> 
> If this works I may have to accept 4000mhz at CL16 is a a bit too much and I might drop to 1.45v & maybe 1.4v to see if CL17 is stable at lower voltages.
> 
> I suppose my question then would be [email protected] or [email protected]?
> 
> *Also is 48 degrees C (120 degrees F) still okay during a stress*? As that's what I'm getting at 1.5v


since it failed fast at 400c16 (before hitting the high 40s), it was not likely a temp problem for that failure. If it failed after 45C - you need to cool the stick only for the stability test since normal use will never run that hot in a decent case.
You can easily see if 3733c16 or 4000c17 is better with AID64 mem bench.

here's a simple bit length calc comparo (crude tho it is):
3733 16 0.27 4.29 6.16 21.16 
4000 17 0.25 4.25 6.00 20.00 
MHz CasL ns/cycle first bit 8bits 64 bits


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## sword fan

Still looking for advice on MCH FUll Check ...if I have MCH disabled but aslo have MRC fast boot disabled does that train the memory enough if the ram is stable in every stress test I run for many hours (HCI, GSAT, MT86, OCCT lare)? Even with much looser timings and much more voltage I can't even get 3800 15-16-16-38 stable for more than a couple passes of the previous tests with MCH enabled where as its stable for 4000% HCI, 5 hrs GSAT, 8 passes MT86 and 10 hours of OCCT large with it disabled.


----------



## kamyk155

Guys - can you give me somekind of good starting point with OC my memory ?
4x8GB Patriot Viper Steel (b-die) 4000MHz XMP - 19-19-19-39-700-2T.
For now I'm using XMP profile but with manual - 1,41V 18-18-18-39-700-2T looks stable.
People told me that I have low LinX GFLOPS score - about 470GFLOPS now.


----------



## munternet

sword fan said:


> Still looking for advice on MCH FUll Check ...if I have MCH disabled but aslo have MRC fast boot disabled does that train the memory enough if the ram is stable in every stress test I run for many hours (HCI, GSAT, MT86, OCCT lare)? Even with much looser timings and much more voltage I can't even get 3800 15-16-16-38 stable for more than a couple passes of the previous tests with MCH enabled where as its stable for 4000% HCI, 5 hrs GSAT, 8 passes MT86 and 10 hours of OCCT large with it disabled.


I run MCH Full Check Disabled for 4200-17-17-17-36-1T and it's pretty solid. RTLs, IO-Ls and IOL Offsets are set manually once the optimum is found so there's not a lot to train


----------



## munternet

kamyk155 said:


> Guys - can you give me somekind of good starting point with OC my memory ?
> 4x8GB Patriot Viper Steel (b-die) 4000MHz XMP - 19-19-19-39-700-2T.
> For now I'm using XMP profile but with manual - 1,41V 18-18-18-39-700-2T looks stable.
> People told me that I have low LinX GFLOPS score - about 470GFLOPS now.


If you have used XMP you should really clear cmos before starting ram tuning.
Save your current profile to a usb in case you get frustrated and want to revert. I assume you have a recent bios?
Follow the instructions at the start of this thread and get familiar with your bios. You can't really shortcut the process too much.
Simple things like bringing down the tRFC to about 400 will make a big difference to your ram performance but only after following the other steps


----------



## Jpmboy

reachthesky said:


> Could someone please tell me which one of these configurations would be better in theory. Reason I ask is if I go 16 tCWL instead of 18 i cannot run tRDWR at 12 and trfc at 336. Is it more important for me to priorize tCWL even it means other timings aren't as tight as they could be? How important is tCWL in general and does it have any specific impact in gaming? Not sure which profile to use basically.


Theory is just that... the best way to answer your question is to measure performance. In addition to AID64 memBench, simple things like SuperPi 32M, any of the chess benchmarks, gaming benchmarks and SiSoft memory benchmarks will tell you what you need to know. 


sword fan said:


> Still looking for advice on MCH FUll Check ...if I have MCH disabled but aslo have MRC fast boot disabled does that train the memory enough if the ram is stable in every stress test I run for many hours (HCI, GSAT, MT86, OCCT lare)? Even with much looser timings and much more voltage I can't even get 3800 15-16-16-38 stable for more than a couple passes of the previous tests with MCH enabled where as its stable for 4000% HCI, 5 hrs GSAT, 8 passes MT86 and 10 hours of OCCT large with it disabled.


once you have solid manual settings, INcluding RTLs as Munternet says below, you can disable training. The risk is really confined to the remaining margins around the timings and alignment to deal with any drift down the road.


munternet said:


> I run MCH Full Check Disabled for 4200-17-17-17-36-1T and it's pretty solid. RTLs, IO-Ls and IOL Offsets are set manually once the optimum is found so there's not a lot to train


^^ this


----------



## sword fan

Munternet and Jpmboy, thank you very much for the info guys, much appreciated!


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Jpmboy said:


> Are you attempting this change in frequency based upon loading XMP then simply increasing the freq? If yes, that's probably not a good route to go.
> If you are looking for gaming performance, focus on improving Latency. Actually, look to improve system latency which you can monitor with Latency Monitor.


Ah, I kind of see where you’re going.

I had XMP enabled and was able to get stable with setting manual 1.35 vdimm with 280 tRFC. Tried to adjust to 260 tRFC but it kept on booting with 280.

Disabled XMP and set manual frequency, primaries, VCCIO, VCCSA, vdimm, and training voltage and it booted with my manually set 260 tRFC. Running memtest HCI right now.

Does XMP enabled mess with the stability of manual memory overclocks? I’m not entirely sure why it refuses to acknowledge certain manually input settings.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Unrelated. I’m running 8 instance of memtest HCI right now for each of the 8 cores on my 9700k. 16gb system ram, testing only 13200mb, 1650mb per instance.

Usually they all run at similar speeds. Once I noticed one running a bit slower than the others. Now I have like half of them running much faster than the others.

I even used ISLC to clear my standby list before running the memtest and I’m still seeing similar behavior.

I have an all core overclock of 5.0, so I’m confounded why some instances are running slower than others.


----------



## sword fan

KrampusKlaus said:


> Unrelated. I’m running 8 instance of memtest HCI right now for each of the 8 cores on my 9700k. 16gb system ram, testing only 13200mb, 1650mb per instance.
> 
> Usually they all run at similar speeds. Once I noticed one running a bit slower than the others. Now I have like half of them running much faster than the others.
> 
> I even used ISLC to clear my standby list before running the memtest and I’m still seeing similar behavior.
> 
> I have an all core overclock of 5.0, so I’m confounded why some instances are running slower than others.


Probably the page file. I used to run 1150 mb per instance on my 12 threads (8700k w/ 16gb) and in hwinfo I'd get a max page file usage of 2.5-3% and several of my instances would fall behind the others by 100-200%. Now I run 1000 mb per instance and at most I'll get 0.3-0.5% page file usage and my instance percentages stay much closer together. As I understand it, even if you don't test so close to your max amount of ram, it'll still all get tested eventually.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Yeah idk *** was going on but I restarted the test a few times with the same amount of memory tested and now all 8 instances are running relatively similarly.


----------



## munternet

KrampusKlaus said:


> Yeah idk *** was going on but I restarted the test a few times with the same amount of memory tested and now all 8 instances are running relatively similarly.


Could depend on what windows is doing in the background.
tRFC seems plenty low at 280.


----------



## lucasfrance

My memory OC that was rock stable for months suddenly whas no that much stable under heavy stress tests for a few weeks... 

After trying to recover this by increasing voltages I went back to the stable configuration and just made a cleaning of the memory sticks contacts with Ether and all is back to normal !!!

Even if the weather is not that much wet here in Switzerland (even not cold at all this year but this is an other story...) I suspect a very thin layer of oxidation appeared on the memory stick contacts that made my previously stable config a bit unstable.

Should you have this kind of experience (or also possibly to improve you memory OC!) try this very easy trick.

Note the very same applies to GPU/PCI (on the GPU side) and CPU/MB contacts (on the CPU side of course!).

Give a try and report back.


----------



## Jpmboy

lucasfrance said:


> My memory OC that was rock stable for months suddenly whas no that much stable under heavy stress tests for a few weeks...
> 
> After trying to recover this by increasing voltages I went back to the stable configuration and* just made a cleaning of the memory sticks contacts with Ether and all is back to normal !!*!
> 
> Even if the weather is not that much wet here in Switzerland (even not cold at all this year but this is an other story...) I suspect a very thin layer of oxidation appeared on the memory stick contacts that made my previously stable config a bit unstable.
> 
> Should you have this kind of experience (or also possibly to improve you memory OC!) try this very easy trick.
> 
> Note the very same applies to GPU/PCI (on the GPU side) and CPU/MB contacts (on the CPU side of course!).
> 
> Give a try and report back.


this is not unusual. :thumb:


----------



## kamyk155

Simply question about temperatures of B-die memory - today I saw 55*C on one of my memory sticks.
I think it is too hot. 4000MHz 18-18-18 with 1,41V now. 
I put temperature sensors inside the radiators of three of my four memory sticks.
PS this temperature was only in Battlefield V - in benchmarks and other programs I didn't saw that high temperatures.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> @kamyk155 это высоко для памяти, но не критично. Могут возникать ошибки. Сделайте продув в корпусе лучше и желательно установите обдув для памяти. Всё тепло идёт от видеокарты.


translated: it is high for memory, but not critical. Errors may occur. Make blowing better in the case and preferably install a memory blower. All the heat comes from the video card.


----------



## Imprezzion

As long as it's stable and doesn't cause errors or crashes due to b-die not liking the temps that high it's fine.


----------



## truehighroller1

truehighroller1--7900x @4.8/3.1 = 1.285v/1.122v--- 4000Mhz-C17-18-18-38-1T = 1.5v---1.12v VCCIO 1.2v VCCSA---HCI 1000+%


----------



## the_real_7

Hello Guys need a bit of help on this 4000c17 set i have Ive tried 16.17.17.34 but didn't really see gains. where can i go with this set


----------



## munternet

the_real_7 said:


> Hello Guys need a bit of help on this 4000c17 set i have Ive tried 16.17.17.34 but didn't really see gains. where can i go with this set


Looks to be a lot on there that is not tightened up.
If you follow a guide like the one in my sig first you can then tighten up tRFC and raise tREFI if desired to get better aida scores


----------



## davidm71

Hi,

Been a while since ran Memtest but got Memtest HCL with Memtest Launcher and noticed a couple things not sure about:

1. Auto selects 2 instances at 1024 Ram to test (512 per instance)
2. Gives a message that PID {number} is using 512 shared memory and 512 private memory

Anyone notice that as well?

Help please.

Thanks


----------



## truehighroller1

munternet said:


> Looks to be a lot on there that is not tightened up.
> If you follow a guide like the one in my sig first you can then tighten up tRFC and raise tREFI if desired to get better aida scores


That guide has been printed by me and saved in my favorites! The guy you quoted is running my memory but only two of them I think anyway.. This is what I'm running right now and still working on tweaking at the moment.


----------



## wholeeo

Recently I've seen people with timings ike 16-15-15, 15-14-14. What's going on here? Didn't know that tRCD and tRP could be set lower than tCL. :thinking:


----------



## truehighroller1

wholeeo said:


> Recently I've seen people with timings ike 16-15-15, 15-14-14. What's going on here? Didn't know that tRCD and tRP could be set lower than tCL. :thinking:


Timings and "Rules":

Primary Timings:

CL: Start with a safe frequency/CL combination and adjust from there.
tRCD/tRP: Try 0-2 above CL (Samsung B-die) or 1-5 above CL (other ICs).
tRAS: CL + tRCD + tRTP (Source) or CL + tRCD + 2 (Source and Diagram). Min: 28. (Source: ASRock UEFI description)
CR: Try 1, otherwise leave at 2.


----------



## robalm

wholeeo said:


> Recently I've seen people with timings ike 16-15-15, 15-14-14. What's going on here? Didn't know that tRCD and tRP could be set lower than tCL. :thinking:


B-die and a good memory controller.
I can run from 3200mhz 14-13-13 to 4000mhz 17-16-16 (1.35v).


----------



## Imprezzion

Not many controllers and chips are capable of it. I can technically run 4000 16-15-15-28-280 but it isn't very stable and needs a LOT of voltage. I prefer 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T which is a lot easier and doesn't really have any worse latency so..


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> Так как tWRRD_sg и tWRRD_dg на 2 завышены по сравнению с JEDEC, решил проверить. Опустил значения на 2 - с 27 и 24 до 25 и 22, соответственно. Ошибок нет. Неужели прокатит и рискну ради интереса просто попробовать ниже...


I think your translator is broken


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## bei fei

I am looking to upgrade my ram. I currently have 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator 3000 C15 which uses Hynix AFR chips.

What is the best option with my Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX?

I am looking at G.Skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZR, Corsair CM32GX4M2C3466C16, or G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC


----------



## munternet

bei fei said:


> I am looking to upgrade my ram. I currently have 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator 3000 C15 which uses Hynix AFR chips.
> 
> What is the best option with my Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX?
> 
> I am looking at G.Skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZR, Corsair CM32GX4M2C3466C16, or G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC


Purely performance based I would go the F4-3200C14D-32GTZR or some F4-3600C16D-32GTZR from what I have seen folks around here saying.
I don't however have any personal experience 
Edit: Neither of which is on your QVL


----------



## Gen.

К слову, 3200C12 

А также 3733C14...


----------



## chrcoluk

Ok guys so referencing this post.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-784.html#post27784556

Above should be sticky imo  ^^

Anyway

He first off states only raise frequency if latency isnt compromised.

Ironically the combination for me a speed/latency combo that is barely mentioned anywhere.

For reference I have samsung B die.

Which is 3000mhz and CAS 12

3000/12 = 250

Other combinations are all inferior. Some dont even post.

3000/12=250, posts and passes stability tests, used as daily driver config for many months. Needs 1.45v
3200/14=228, XMP spec of my ram, posts and stable (on this 9900k, wasnt on my 8600k, which was the reason I started using the 3000/12 config), this is significantly inferior on latnecy on AIDA64 and interestingly caues one of my favourite games to stutter much more than 3000/12. Much lower voltage than 3000/12 needed.
3200/13=246, this would have been great, but even at 1.45v doesnt even post.
3333/14=238, have managed to boot into windows, no stability test carried out yet. Really want to get closer to the latency of 3000/12.
3400/14=242, doesnt post
3400/15=226, posts but as crappy as 3200/14 for latency

Not tried anymore, as I feel getting close to 3000/12 latency at very high frequencies is not going to happen, 3000/12 seems godly yet noone uses it?

So the question is, if you was in same situation, would you favour 3000 with cas 12? Also 3000 with Cas 12 has almost same bandwidth on AIDA64 as 3000CL14 XMP, but If I tune the 3200 config a bit it pulls away somewhat, same with 3333mhz, however if I do a % calculation, the % increase in bandwidth is a fraction of the % decrease in latency, and latency seems to be benefit software more?

Latency as reported in AIDA64

3000 40-42ns
3200 47-48ns tuned 45-47ns
3333 43-45ns


----------



## Nizzen

chrcoluk said:


> Ok guys so referencing this post.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-784.html#post27784556
> 
> Above should be sticky imo  ^^
> 
> Anyway
> 
> He first off states only raise frequency if latency isnt compromised.
> 
> Ironically the combination for me a speed/latency combo that is barely mentioned anywhere.
> 
> For reference I have samsung B die.
> 
> Which is 3000mhz and CAS 12
> 
> 3000/12 = 250
> 
> Other combinations are all inferior. Some dont even post.
> 
> 3000/12=250, posts and passes stability tests, used as daily driver config for many months. Needs 1.45v
> 3200/14=228, XMP spec of my ram, posts and stable (on this 9900k, wasnt on my 8600k, which was the reason I started using the 3000/12 config), this is significantly inferior on latnecy on AIDA64 and interestingly caues one of my favourite games to stutter much more than 3000/12. Much lower voltage than 3000/12 needed.
> 3200/13=246, this would have been great, but even at 1.45v doesnt even post.
> 3333/14=238, have managed to boot into windows, no stability test carried out yet. Really want to get closer to the latency of 3000/12.
> 3400/14=242, doesnt post
> 3400/15=226, posts but as crappy as 3200/14 for latency
> 
> Not tried anymore, as I feel getting close to 3000/12 latency at very high frequencies is not going to happen, 3000/12 seems godly yet noone uses it?
> 
> So the question is, if you was in same situation, would you favour 3000 with cas 12? Also 3000 with Cas 12 has almost same bandwidth on AIDA64 as 3000CL14 XMP, but If I tune the 3200 config a bit it pulls away somewhat, same with 3333mhz, however if I do a % calculation, the % increase in bandwidth is a fraction of the % decrease in latency, and latency seems to be benefit software more?
> 
> Latency as reported in AIDA64
> 
> 3000 40-42ns
> 3200 47-48ns tuned 45-47ns
> 3333 43-45ns


Forget about this 

Tune 2. And 3. Timings, and you have a new sport 

Look at the aida 64 results in this thread vs different timings  1. - 2. And 3. Timings. 

Example: 4000c17 on 9900k can do latency from "~38ns to ~52ns" depending on tweaked 2. Timings and 3. Timings


----------



## chrcoluk

are you able to give some example of which timings to look at and values to configure? there is 1154 pages, that is an aweful of lot of reading


----------



## Nizzen

chrcoluk said:


> are you able to give some example of which timings to look at and values to configure? there is 1154 pages, that is an aweful of lot of reading


B-die -> 4000 c17-17-17-37 trfc=400 
Vdram 1.45v
Vccio 1.25v
Vccsa 1.25v

Standard start on Intel 8700k/9900k cpu's 

Try to copy others results too. Just go back 5-6 pages and look for settings


----------



## swddeluxx

Have found two G-Skill F4-4400C18-8GTR Kits (4x8Gb)and they can both


9900K 5GHz Core/ 4.7GHz Cache/ RAM 4600 17-18-18-38 vDim 1.50v with VCCIO [1.28750] VCCSA [1.33125] --- Bios Settings




and 4300 16-16-16-34 vDim 1.48v with VCCIO [1.15625] VCCSA [1.20625] :guitar:
--- Bios Settings


----------



## the_real_7

munternet said:


> Looks to be a lot on there that is not tightened up.
> If you follow a guide like the one in my sig first you can then tighten up tRFC and raise tREFI if desired to get better aida scores



Thanks munternet so started with your guide lowered a few things went from 43..7ns to 41.6ns which is a good start I think. I'm working slowly on secondary right now , passed memtest pro 1600% with memory temps not passing 43c. My vccio and vccsa still low some im running great temps. going to work on trrds and trrdl then tfaw


----------



## munternet

@the_real_7 Looking good :thumb:


----------



## Nizzen

swddeluxx said:


> Have found two G-Skill F4-4400C18-8GTR Kits (4x8Gb)and they can both
> 
> 
> 9900K 5GHz Core/ 4.7GHz Cache/ RAM 4600 17-18-18-38 vDim 1.50v with VCCIO [1.28750] VCCSA [1.33125] --- Bios Settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and 4300 16-16-16-34 vDim 1.48v with VCCIO [1.15625] VCCSA [1.20625] :guitar:
> --- Bios Settings


Pleace share aida64 memory bench result


----------



## mouacyk

swddeluxx said:


> Have found two G-Skill F4-4400C18-8GTR Kits (4x8Gb)and they can both
> 
> 9900K 5GHz Core/ 4.7GHz Cache/ RAM 4600 17-18-18-38 vDim 1.50v with VCCIO [1.28750] VCCSA [1.33125] --- Bios Settings


Again, Gene and Apex boards... not even fun anymore.


----------



## GAN77

16-16-34-4266 F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK


----------



## chrcoluk

Nizzen said:


> B-die -> 4000 c17-17-17-37 trfc=400
> Vdram 1.45v
> Vccio 1.25v
> Vccsa 1.25v
> 
> Standard start on Intel 8700k/9900k cpu's
> 
> Try to copy others results too. Just go back 5-6 pages and look for settings


I meant the secondary, tertiary timings.

Also that only gives a score of 235 so is poor latency vs 3000/12.

Are you saying that I can just flip primary timings, without any adjustments on other timings to make it work?

What I am looking for is something within 10% of 3000/12 latency if possible at higher speeds but I am not going to take higher speeds with such a big latency hit.

Do you have settings e.g. to make 3200/13 work?


----------



## Imprezzion

4000 CL16 is identical in base latency to 3000 CL12 not counting the secondaries. Try if the sticks will at least do CL16 at 4000 or even CL15 or 4200 CL16 as that would be an improvement.

As a quick and dirty test, Use Nizzens voltage settings but with 16-19-19-39-500-2T on 4000 or even 4200. If it doesn't go, DRAM voltage up to 1.5v, if it doesn't go, 1.55v, stop there, raise IO/SA to like, 1.30v, If that won't do it, it simply isn't going to run CL16 at a useful frequency.

If any of this does at least boot windows without BSOD or freeze, go down to 15-18-18-38-400-2T and try again.


----------



## Nizzen

chrcoluk said:


> I meant the secondary, tertiary timings.
> 
> Also that only gives a score of 235 so is poor latency vs 3000/12.
> 
> Are you saying that I can just flip primary timings, without any adjustments on other timings to make it work?
> 
> What I am looking for is something within 10% of 3000/12 latency if possible at higher speeds but I am not going to take higher speeds with such a big latency hit.
> 
> Do you have settings e.g. to make 3200/13 work?


Post result of aida 64 memorybenchmark 3000 c12. Then it's possible du guide you better


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> *4000 CL16 is identical in base latency to 3000 CL12 not counting the secondaries*.


How did you calculate this?


----------



## Imprezzion

Quite simple. CL is purely the amount of clocks it takes to do a certain action. 3000/12 is 250, 4000/16 is also 250. So both actions take the same length of time (8 nanoseconds). This of course ignores all other timings except CL but it's a very rude but correct base calculation. If you cannot get at least CL16 on 4000 it isn't worth it latency wise compared to 3000 CL12.


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Quite simple. CL is purely the amount of clocks it takes to do a certain action. 3000/12 is 250, 4000/16 is also 250. So both actions take the same length of time (8 nanoseconds). This of course ignores all other timings except CL but it's a very rude but correct base calculation. If you cannot get at least CL16 on 4000 it isn't worth it latency wise compared to 3000 CL12.


Higher frequency makes higher bandwidth and lower latency too. So you want high clocks, with low latency.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Quite simple. CL is purely the amount of clocks it takes to do a certain action. 3000/12 is 250, 4000/16 is also 250. So both actions take the same length of time (8 nanoseconds). This of course ignores all other timings except CL but it's a very rude but correct base calculation. If you cannot get at least CL16 on 4000 it isn't worth it latency wise compared to 3000 CL12.


I'm pretty sure that is for the first bit. On a 64bit system it gets more clear:
MHz	CasL	ns/cycle	first bit 8bits	64 bits
3000	12	0.33	4.00	6.33	25.00
4000	16	0.25	4.00	5.75	19.75


----------



## swddeluxx

Nizzen said:


> Pleace share aida64 memory bench result



it is here


----------



## swddeluxx

GAN77 said:


> 16-16-34-4266 F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK


strong result!, very nice performance :thumb:


----------



## bp7178

swddeluxx said:


> it is here


Very nice. I'm looking for a new motherboard and am trying to decide between the Gene and Dark. I see some really impressive memory OC being done with the Gene.


----------



## fleps

Hey, long time guys.

Anyone with a *Maximus X Hero* that has some memory OC above 4000 can post some results? 

I have a new set of RAM from ADATA that are 3600 CL17-18-18 B-DIE (4x8GB ) that I found some reviews where they achieved 4600Mhz of OC on it on a z390.

I did some quick tests here and I can't even post above 4000mhz.

I was not able to get 4000mhz on the exact same latency as the review (they got with CL17-18-18-38-2T I needed 17-18-18-39), but ANYTHING above 4000Mhz it will not even post.

I've tried even leaving the timings on Auto and using VDIM 1.5 and VSSA VSCO 1.35, nothing.

Is this board not able to post more than 4000mhz? I'm on latest bios 2203.

To be honest I'm happy with 4000mhz, but wanna make sure i'm not just sub-utilizing the RAMs and could go higher.

Any tips i'll appreciate.


----------



## truehighroller1

Spoiler






fleps said:


> Hey, long time guys.
> 
> Anyone with a *Maximus X Hero* that has some memory OC above 4000 can post some results?
> 
> I have a new set of RAM from ADATA that are 3600 CL17-18-18 B-DIE (4x8GB ) that I found some reviews where they achieved 4600Mhz of OC on it on a z390.
> 
> I did some quick tests here and I can't even post above 4000mhz.
> 
> I was not able to get 4000mhz on the exact same latency as the review (they got with CL17-18-18-38-2T I needed 17-18-18-39), but ANYTHING above 4000Mhz it will not even post.
> 
> I've tried even leaving the timings on Auto and using VDIM 1.5 and VSSA VSCO 1.35, nothing.
> 
> Is this board not able to post more than 4000mhz? I'm on latest bios 2203.
> 
> To be honest I'm happy with 4000mhz, but wanna make sure i'm not just sub-utilizing the RAMs and could go higher.
> 
> Any tips i'll appreciate.






Utilize this post and focus on getting your rtl's figured out in regards to getting them set on your board and I think you'll get it stable.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html


----------



## Imprezzion

The board is. The CPU probably isn't. What cache freq are you running? Try a waaay looser timing set like 19-22-22-45-500-2T and see if that does boot 4200 or more.


----------



## fleps

truehighroller1 said:


> Utilize this post and focus on getting your rtl's figured out in regards to getting them set on your board and I think you'll get it stable.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html


Ty, was just checking that post.



Imprezzion said:


> The board is. The CPU probably isn't. What cache freq are you running? Try a waaay looser timing set like 19-22-22-45-500-2T and see if that does boot 4200 or more.


The CPU on the review I mentioned is also a 8700K, but they are on a Z390 Maximus XI Gene board while I'm on a z370. I'm on 4.8Ghz all cores and 4.6 cache.

I've tried ridiculous timings like 20-20-20-47, didn't post even on 4133Mhz

I might try to remove any CPU frequency OC just to see if I can post above 4000mhz, or I'll need to optimize my 4000mhz as best as possible.

Ty


----------



## Jpmboy

fleps said:


> Ty, was just checking that post.
> 
> 
> 
> The CPU on the review I mentioned is also a 8700K, but they are on a Z390 Maximus XI Gene board while I'm on a z370. I'm on 4.8Ghz all cores and 4.6 cache.
> 
> *I've tried ridiculous timings like 20-20-20-47, didn't post even on 4133Mhz
> *
> I might try to remove any CPU frequency OC just to see if I can post above 4000mhz, or I'll need to optimize my 4000mhz as best as possible.
> 
> Ty


what vsa and vccio voltage ?


----------



## Jpmboy

Here's some z370 ram settings with 3200c14, 3500c15 and 4800c18 sticks (all 2x8GB on the APEX X)


----------



## Antsu

bp7178 said:


> Very nice. I'm looking for a new motherboard and am trying to decide between the Gene and Dark. I see some really impressive memory OC being done with the Gene.


I have no idea how they compare, but in case you want to go Dark don't be afraid. It is no slouch.


----------



## ashr

Is there any reason why I've lost performance over time? Is it due to security patches (9900k)? I've tried all stock/auto settings and I'm getting the same lower performance.
The top result is from 04/2019 and the bottom one is today.


----------



## munternet

ashr said:


> Is there any reason why I've lost performance over time? Is it due to security patches (9900k)? I've tried all stock/auto settings and I'm getting the same lower performance.
> The top result is from 04/2019 and the bottom one is today.


Unless you've got something running in the background it does look like you'e taken a hit.
I "upgraded" to the newer patched version of W10 1909 and took a major performance hit so changed back to 1809 
I also found that nvidia driver 417.35 and earlier give a much better frame-rate than any later nvidia driver in BFV.
The downside is multitasking suffers a little. Only noticeable if I'm mining with my GPU. It doesn't leave much in the way of resources for other apps. Chrome stutters badly. I changed drivers back and forth to confirm.
Old driver better for gaming
New driver better for multitasking


----------



## fleps

Jpmboy said:


> what vsa and vccio voltage ?


Tried with 1.25 1.3 and even 1.35, same results, won't post.

I've also discovered one of the sticks is failing memtest even on stock, but even with only 2x8GB, same results.

I think I'll just accept 4000mhz and try to optimize it.


----------



## Antsu

Has anyone tested the temperatures of sticks without heatspreaders on 2 DIMM boards? Mine get a little hot even with decent airflow when pushed hard and my gut feeling tells me removing the heatsinks would help clear some space and thus improve airflow and temps. It's just such a pain to remove them I kind of want someone to tell me it doesn't help, lol.


----------



## munternet

fleps said:


> Tried with 1.25 1.3 and even 1.35, same results, won't post.
> 
> *I've also discovered one of the sticks is failing memtest even on stock,* but even with only 2x8GB, same results.
> 
> I think I'll just accept 4000mhz and try to optimize it.


Is it the same stick failing?
Lifetime warranty 
https://www.adata.com/upload/downloadfile/Datasheet-XPG SPECTRIX D80 DDR4 Memory Module_20180426.pdf


----------



## ashr

munternet said:


> Unless you've got something running in the background it does look like you'e taken a hit.
> I "upgraded" to the newer patched version of W10 1909 and took a major performance hit so changed back to 1809
> I also found that nvidia driver 417.35 and earlier give a much better frame-rate than any later nvidia driver in BFV.
> The downside is multitasking suffers a little. Only noticeable if I'm mining with my GPU. It doesn't leave much in the way of resources for other apps. Chrome stutters badly. I changed drivers back and forth to confirm.
> Old driver better for gaming
> New driver better for multitasking


I'll try reinstall 1909 over the weekend and see if it helps. If not I'm going back to 1809. Anyone else on 1909 and an Intel CPU noticed this too?


----------



## truehighroller1

ashr said:


> I'll try reinstall 1909 over the weekend and see if it helps. If not I'm going back to 1809. Anyone else on 1909 and an Intel CPU noticed this too?


Everything seems good here honestly.

2018 

vs now

That's with less overclock on my cpu today and less cache speed.. I'm at 3100mhz cache right now.


----------



## fleps

munternet said:


> Is it the same stick failing?
> Lifetime warranty
> https://www.adata.com/upload/downloadfile/Datasheet-XPG SPECTRIX D80 DDR4 Memory Module_20180426.pdf


They are brand new, I'm just returning one kit to the store and they will send another

Anyway, with one kit (2x8GB) I was able to get stable 4000mhz with these numbers below (they are 3600 17-18-18 b-die)

Is it ok? What could I improve more? 

Thanks


----------



## Imprezzion

Just try to go down 1 timing on the main 3. 16-17-17-35-350 for example. Or shoot for 4200 or maybe even 4400 on these timings. I see the most optimal results in AIDA as 60GB+ bandwidth with sub 40ns latency. That is do-able on 4000CL16 with the right sub-timings and pretty easy on 4200 CL16. But, that's my personal goal / preference.


----------



## fleps

Imprezzion said:


> Just try to go down 1 timing on the main 3. 16-17-17-35-350 for example. Or shoot for 4200 or maybe even 4400 on these timings. I see the most optimal results in AIDA as 60GB+ bandwidth with sub 40ns latency. That is do-able on 4000CL16 with the right sub-timings and pretty easy on 4200 CL16. But, that's my personal goal / preference.


Uh I forgot to post again, these memories are 3600 17-18-18, even being b-die I don't think I can push 400Mhz of OC while reducing the timings like that.


----------



## Zemach

Ram watercooling 4600Cl 16 16 16 36 1.6v io 1.26 sa 1.31


----------



## Imprezzion

fleps said:


> Uh I forgot to post again, these memories are 3600 17-18-18, even being b-die I don't think I can push 400Mhz of OC while reducing the timings like that.


Haha of course you can . 

Mine are even worse binned, Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 18-19-19 sticks, and even these things do 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T on 1.54v with 1.25 IO 1.30 SA. They can do even more but my 9900K IMC doesn't want to do more.

It's all a big lottery and yes, the chance of a B-Die rated for 4400CL19 doing better is always bigger but a bad bin doesn't automatically mean they can't do good.


----------



## fleps

Imprezzion said:


> fleps said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh I forgot to post again, these memories are 3600 17-18-18, even being b-die I don't think I can push 400Mhz of OC while reducing the timings like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha of course you can /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif.
> 
> Mine are even worse binned, Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 18-19-19 sticks, and even these things do 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T on 1.54v with 1.25 IO 1.30 SA. They can do even more but my 9900K IMC doesn't want to do more.
> 
> It's all a big lottery and yes, the chance of a B-Die rated for 4400CL19 doing better is always bigger but a bad bin doesn't automatically mean they can't do good.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm running a memtest86 now with 4000 16-17-17-42 350, 1.48v so far no errors but still on pass 1

Seems they are a good chip, it's probably my horrible 8700K that needs 1.32v to get 4.8Ghz that doesn't allow the memory to even post anything above 4000mhz.

Or my Asus Maximus X is bogus, who knows.


----------



## Jpmboy

fleps said:


> Uh I forgot to post again, these memories are *3600 17-18-18, even being b-die* I don't think I can push 400Mhz of OC while reducing the timings like that.


did you get that those are B-die from TB?


----------



## fleps

Jpmboy said:


> did you get that those are B-die from TB?


Yes, on all reviews they are said to be b-die and I confirmed mines on TB


----------



## ashr

truehighroller1 said:


> Everything seems good here honestly.
> 
> 2018
> 
> vs now
> 
> That's with less overclock on my cpu today and less cache speed.. I'm at 3100mhz cache right now.


Reinstalled 1909 and it's fine now. I don't think I've done a clean install since 1709 so was time for one anyway.


----------



## truehighroller1

ashr said:


> Reinstalled 1909 and it's fine now. I don't think I've done a clean install since 1709 so was time for one anyway.


Well it makes me feel better about my install too so thank you. Lol


----------



## fleps

Imprezzion said:


> Haha of course you can .
> 
> Mine are even worse binned, Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 18-19-19 sticks, and even these things do 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T on 1.54v with 1.25 IO 1.30 SA. They can do even more but my 9900K IMC doesn't want to do more.
> 
> It's all a big lottery and yes, the chance of a B-Die rated for 4400CL19 doing better is always bigger but a bad bin doesn't automatically mean they can't do good.





Jpmboy said:


> did you get that those are B-die from TB?


Ok, 16-17-17-42 didn't passed, but 4000mhz 17-17-17-42 350 2T passed.

See below the timings and result, is it ok? Any super room for improvements considering primary timings are as low it can be apparently?
Does this means I could probably get better results going 3600Mhz lower timings, maybe a 3600 CL14?

My primary use is gaming.

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

fleps said:


> Ok, 16-17-17-42 didn't passed, but 4000mhz 17-17-17-42 350 2T passed.
> 
> See below the timings and result, is it ok? Any super room for improvements considering primary timings are as low it can be apparently?
> Does this means I could probably get better results going 3600Mhz lower timings, maybe a 3600 CL14?
> 
> My primary use is gaming.
> 
> Thanks


help me out here... what voltages and it passed what?
Lower RRD_s to 8 or 6, and set tFAW to 4x RRD_s. Check stability. No sense in trying to tune unstable settings.


----------



## fleps

Jpmboy said:


> help me out here... what voltages and it passed what?
> Lower RRD_s to 8 or 6, and set tFAW to 4x RRD_s. Check stability. No sense in trying to tune unstable settings.


Haha sorry I quoted you by mistake, It was meant to @Imprezzion as he saw my previous results and replied =)

Those timings passed on MemTest86 (boot mode), so these are stable.

The memories are at 1.48v, which I could probably lower. SA and CIO are at 1.3


----------



## fleps

Jpmboy said:


> Lower RRD_s to 8 or 6, and set tFAW to 4x RRD_s. Check stability. No sense in trying to tune unstable settings.


Update: RRD_s to 8 and tFAW to 32 failed.

I also tried a run with my settings but 300 tRFC and failed.
Looks like this is it for these chips.

A question: when the other kit arrives, so I will be at 4x8GB, what settings I need to maybe relax/change at first if I can't hold these timings with 4 sticks?

I think I read somewhere that tREFI needs to be adjustable depending on the amount of total RAM? Or was it depending of if the memory is 4 or 8GB?


----------



## Imprezzion

Not really a rule for tREFI as far as I know because it's very dependant on other timings like tRFC for example. 

They do seem to perform pretty poor for B-Die's tho. How hot are they getting? Are there temperature sensors in them that HWiNFO64 can read? B-Die hates temperature..


----------



## SuperMumrik

After finalizing my z390 24/7 settings(first screenshot) I went back working with my 7820x system.


Anyone got some pointers where to go next for tightening the timings for the x299 system?
That Tuf board is a real struggle compare to the MSI z390 board, every time it fail to boot it's a hassle getting it back up and running
Keep in mind that the 7820 can't get the same read/write speeds as the i9's.


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Not really a rule for tREFI as far as I know because it's very dependant on other timings like tRFC for example.
> 
> *They do seem to perform pretty poor for B-Die's tho.* How hot are they getting? Are there temperature sensors in them that HWiNFO64 can read? B-Die hates temperature..


yeah, either ONE the sticks or IMC is weak.


----------



## fleps

Imprezzion said:


> Not really a rule for tREFI as far as I know because it's very dependant on other timings like tRFC for example.
> 
> They do seem to perform pretty poor for B-Die's tho. How hot are they getting? Are there temperature sensors in them that HWiNFO64 can read? B-Die hates temperature..





Jpmboy said:


> yeah, either ONE the sticks or IMC is weak.


They don't provide temp sensors but when I was testing with 4 sticks I measured with my infrared gun and it was around 48/50C, I imagine that with only 2 now it's a bit lower as there's more room to heat dissipate, but still probably over 40C.
I live in a hot place, here's at this time of the year my minimum ambient temperature is 25/27C (at night) and around 33 at day, so yeah.

They are ADATA, which is an "OK" brand, they are way cheaper than a G.skill b-die so I don't expect them to be super good.

But on the review I found the guy was able to reach 4600 MHz CL19-24-24-42-2T @ 1.5V HCI stable 400%. Here: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4773221/all (his model is AX4U360038G17-SR80 and mines are AX4U360038G17-*DR80*, which I'll assume are not as good)

It's probably the IMC, I got a *really bad* 8700K, needs 1.32vCore to stable 4.8Ghz and needed to delid to get temps under control, which is horrible as we know.
I hope is the CPU and not something on the MB as I'm considering upgrade to a 9900KS at some time this year.

I might need some fan to cool off the RAM once I have 4 sticks back.


----------



## Imprezzion

Dual-rank VS single-rank. SR always clocks better. That's probably why my Corsair single ranks do quite well despite being a low-end bin.


----------



## DarkrReign2049

Hey Everyone. It's been a few years since I've played around with overclocking. I recently got a EVGA z390 Dark and a 9900k on a Streacom test bench to play around with. I haven't had much luck with good timings on anything above 4200Mhz. Does anyone have any suggestions on which way to adjust IOL and RTL's to help training?


----------



## robalm

I always run tWTP on auto in bios, i assume you most do the same?

This is not listed in asrock timing configuration.

On auto it is for me 29, how is it for you guys?
I've gone down to 1, the question is if it even does something?

Edit: you can see this info in AIDA64 -> Motherboard -> Chipset.


Edit2: It looks like tWTP is tWRPRE...


----------



## fleps

Imprezzion said:


> Dual-rank VS single-rank. SR always clocks better. That's probably why my Corsair single ranks do quite well despite being a low-end bin.


Didn't know that, thanks.

Anyways, I do think my memories are on par with the SR, because my results / timings at 4000mhz are actually better than then ones from the review I've linked.

It's probably just my ****ty 8700K that is holding the memories performance as it wont post even 100Mhz over 4000.

Is the IMC limitation usually 100% on the CPU, or could be actually my Maximus X Hero that is ****ty and holding the CPU/RAM OC?


----------



## BotSkill

Hero don't usually clock much over 4000Mhz. You need an Apex or Gene or Dark. 8700k usually have verry good IMC, so the limitations are verry likely mobo related.

Also you are overclocking 4 dimms. No way You will get 4 Dimms to near 4500-4600 MHz. 


Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 2 XL folosind Tapatalk


----------



## fleps

BotSkill said:


> Hero don't usually clock much over 4000Mhz. You need an Apex or Gene or Dark. 8700k usually have verry good IMC, so the limitations are verry likely mobo related.
> 
> Also you are overclocking 4 dimms. No way You will get 4 Dimms to near 4500-4600 MHz.


Sorry but I think you are mistaken.
I did quite a bit of research and found many cases of people with a X Hero on 4200/4400Mhz memories with 8700k/9900K at 5/5.1Ghz.
And X Hero uses T topology so actually the OC with 4 DIMMS is pretty good, there's even a 4400Mhz 4x8GB kit that G.skill validated on a X Hero with a 8700K: https://hexus.net/tech/news/ram/112310-gskill-thrills-ddr4-32gb-memory-kit-4400mhz/

My main question was if there's a way to know that the IMC limitations are on a bad CPU or maybe there are cases that might be on a bad MB, because posting 4000mhz on this RAM was almost out of the box but a simple 4100Mhz increase will not even post with an error code 55 or 49.
What I found so far that most cases it's on the CPU, but there's actually no way to knowing / eliminating the MB completely.

PS: all these results so far are with 2 sticks, one stick was defective so I had to return one kit to the store for replacement.


----------



## bp7178

fleps said:


> Sorry but I think you are mistaken.
> I did quite a bit of research and found many cases of people with a X Hero on 4200/4400Mhz memories with 8700k/9900K at 5/5.1Ghz.
> And X Hero uses T topology so actually the OC with 4 DIMMS is pretty good, there's even a 4400Mhz 4x8GB kit that G.skill validated on a X Hero with a 8700K: https://hexus.net/tech/news/ram/112310-gskill-thrills-ddr4-32gb-memory-kit-4400mhz/
> 
> My main question was if there's a way to know that the IMC limitations are on a bad CPU or maybe there are cases that might be on a bad MB, because posting 4000mhz on this RAM was almost out of the box but a simple 4100Mhz increase will not even post with an error code 55 or 49.
> What I found so far that most cases it's on the CPU, but there's actually no way to knowing / eliminating the MB completely.
> 
> PS: all these results so far are with 2 sticks, one stick was defective so I had to return one kit to the store for replacement.


Simply booting with XMP enabled with a 4400mhz 4x8Gb doesn't validate the speed. Manufacturers set very loose timings for compatibility. You have to test and make sure you are getting the bandwidth and performance you think you are. 

A big problem with Asus boards is that when you enable XMP and your DRAM is over 4000Mhz it will hit the VCCIO and VCCSA with over 1.4v. IIRC, one was as high as 1.468v in HWInfo. I had to turn both down to 1.2500v to pass a memory stress test. 

My Maximus XI Extreme won't boot two sticks over 4000mhz. I got it to post one or two times at 4100mhz but it was no where near reliable. I bought a 4266Mhz G.Skill kit which has much better timings than the Corsair kit I was using. I'm going to swap over to a Gene and work on my memory OC.


----------



## fleps

bp7178 said:


> Simply booting with XMP enabled with a 4400mhz 4x8Gb doesn't validate the speed. Manufacturers set very loose timings for compatibility. You have to test and make sure you are getting the bandwidth and performance you think you are.
> 
> A big problem with Asus boards is that when you enable XMP and your DRAM is over 4000Mhz it will hit the VCCIO and VCCSA with over 1.4v. IIRC, one was as high as 1.468v in HWInfo. I had to turn both down to 1.2500v to pass a memory stress test.
> 
> My Maximus XI Extreme won't boot two sticks over 4000mhz. I got it to post one or two times at 4100mhz but it was no where near reliable. I bought a 4266Mhz G.Skill kit which has much better timings than the Corsair kit I was using. I'm going to swap over to a Gene and work on my memory OC.


- I don't think you even opened the link mate, otherwise you wont be saying rubbish. The memories from G.skill got validated with a 4h run / 400% HCI as 19-19-19-39 timings.
- Who said I'm using XMP?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

@Jpmboy now im summoning you for real

look what i manage to do in this second evga board what you think...

im wondering if is even stable at this point just put 17/19/17 let the board do the rest just for the time been..


Edit: pulled my usb gsat and did a run

Drooped one of the timings and tweaked a few more
17/20/17/[email protected]

Tfaw 16
Trfc 320

On that test


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> @Jpmboy now im summoning you for real
> 
> look what i manage to do in this second evga board what you think...
> 
> im wondering if is even stable at this point just put 17/19/17 let the board do the rest just for the time been..
> 
> 
> Edit: pulled my usb gsat and did a run
> 
> Drooped one of the timings and tweaked a few more
> 17/20/17/[email protected]
> 
> Tfaw 16
> Trfc 320
> 
> On that test


Pleace share "voltage" settings


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> Pleace share "voltage" settings


you lucky you got me doing another gsat run now on windows


btw i found this just now which is gsat for a usb stick like memtest86 it auto run once it boots no command needed as theres one you need to add the cmds the one im using that is posted around here too XD
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/egz9oz/gsat_linux_live_cd_how_to_easily_and_safely/


----------



## zGunBLADEz

zGunBLADEz said:


> you lucky you got me doing another gsat run now on windows
> 
> 
> btw i found this just now which is gsat for a usb stick like memtest86 it auto run once it boots no command needed as theres one you need to add the cmds the one im using that is posted around here too XD
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/egz9oz/gsat_linux_live_cd_how_to_easily_and_safely/


i guess just bcuz lol


----------



## chrcoluk

Imprezzion said:


> 4000 CL16 is identical in base latency to 3000 CL12 not counting the secondaries. Try if the sticks will at least do CL16 at 4000 or even CL15 or 4200 CL16 as that would be an improvement.
> 
> As a quick and dirty test, Use Nizzens voltage settings but with 16-19-19-39-500-2T on 4000 or even 4200. If it doesn't go, DRAM voltage up to 1.5v, if it doesn't go, 1.55v, stop there, raise IO/SA to like, 1.30v, If that won't do it, it simply isn't going to run CL16 at a useful frequency.
> 
> If any of this does at least boot windows without BSOD or freeze, go down to 15-18-18-38-400-2T and try again.


I dont really want to be running ram that high voltage 24/7, however you have took the time to reply, and I am going to try it, and see if it boots like you said


----------



## chrcoluk

swddeluxx said:


> it is here


yeah that is kick ass man 

I find it funny that all this time I thought I couldnt 4 sticks b-die 3200mhz because of motherboard, and after I swap cpu I could, so the IMC on cpu's can hurt.


----------



## chrcoluk

ashr said:


> Is there any reason why I've lost performance over time? Is it due to security patches (9900k)? I've tried all stock/auto settings and I'm getting the same lower performance.
> The top result is from 04/2019 and the bottom one is today.


memory is an i/o operation and i/o is hit by the mitigations.

Download a tool call inspectre and hit the disable mitigations button, then reboot, I am curious how much of your performance you get back from that.

Note it doesnt disable all of the mitigations but does disable the worst offenders.

Also if you wanted to inspectre allows you to enable the mitigations again just as easily.


----------



## bp7178

fleps said:


> - I don't think you even opened the link mate, otherwise you wont be saying rubbish. The memories from G.skill got validated with a 4h run / 400% HCI as 19-19-19-39 timings.
> - Who said I'm using XMP?


I lost interest with the link when I saw it was a 2017 press release.


----------



## fleps

bp7178 said:


> I lost interest with the link when I saw it was a 2017 press release.


What would you expect from a board that was launched at 2017?
And if you lost interest, then refrain from posting things that aren't true? 

I get that we are all learning and trying to help each other here but it's also important to be responsible to what we say mate, so we don't mislead other people that might arrive here.

You may had a bad experience with a X Hero and 4 dimms, but that doesn't make the ultimate true, specially when there's actual facts to prove it works.

Best.


----------



## munternet

I did better on my Maximus X Hero with 4 sticks than I did with 2 sticks as far as max frequency goes


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> I did better on my Maximus X Hero with 4 sticks than I did with 2 sticks as far as max frequency goes


Yeah, Gigabyte and Asus use T-Topology on their four stick boards which will overclock better with four DIMMs than two.


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> @Jpmboy now im summoning you for real
> look what i manage to do in this second evga board what you think...
> im wondering if is even stable at this point just put 17/19/17 let the board do the rest just for the time been..
> Edit: pulled my usb gsat and did a run
> Drooped one of the timings and tweaked a few more
> 17/20/17/[email protected]
> Tfaw 16
> Trfc 320
> On that test


Looks real good to me. tRCD below 20 not stable? That tRAS is likely subbed since it is shorter than CL+RCD+RTP (all three operations have to complete within the ras ticks, and if ras is too low it cycles or, more importantly the bios microcode subs in a value to correct the timing error - which is not reported to the OS.
I managed stable 4200 with a 9900X (and 64GB, no less), but alas, using the same sticks and R6EO board, this 10980XE can't manage 4000, so I run 3733 c15 (which is pretty low true latency). The issue with 4200 and 4000 with this 10980XE is RTLs. Can't get truly stable low RTLs over time with >3733, and since these are the most important "timings" 3733 actually performs better overall. My 7980XE/R6 Apex is happily humming along at 4000c16 with very tights secondaries and RTLs. It's been in compute duty for 3 weeks now, non-stop with 3 Titan Vs. Zero reason to tweak anything on that rig. 
Some screen shots:


----------



## bei fei

Here is my starting point for my new memory. G.Skill Sniper X F4-3466C18D-16GSXW

This is my first attempt. Any hints or tips on sub-timings are welcomed and appreciated.


----------



## munternet

bei fei said:


> Here is my starting point for my new memory. G.Skill Sniper X F4-3466C18D-16GSXW
> 
> This is my first attempt. Any hints or tips on sub-timings are welcomed and appreciated.


Not sure if you have looked at the tutorial at the start of this forum and there is also a tutorial link in my sig.
Pay to have a read of both if you haven't already and report back. Looks like there is much to do 
Are those sticks B-Die?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Jpmboy now im summoning you for real
> look what i manage to do in this second evga board what you think...
> im wondering if is even stable at this point just put 17/19/17 let the board do the rest just for the time been..
> Edit: pulled my usb gsat and did a run
> Drooped one of the timings and tweaked a few more
> 17/20/17/[email protected]
> Tfaw 16
> Trfc 320
> On that test
> 
> 
> 
> Looks real good to me. tRCD below 20 not stable? That tRAS is likely subbed since it is shorter than CL+RCD+RTP (all three operations have to complete within the ras ticks, and if ras is too low it cycles or, more importantly the bios microcode subs in a value to correct the timing error - which is not reported to the OS.
> I managed stable 4200 with a 9900X (and 64GB, no less), but alas, using the same sticks and R6EO board, this 10980XE can't manage 4000, so I run 3733 c15 (which is pretty low true latency). The issue with 4200 and 4000 with this 10980XE is RTLs. Can't get truly stable low RTLs over time with >3733, and since these are the most important "timings" 3733 actually performs better overall. My 7980XE/R6 Apex is happily humming along at 4000c16 with very tights secondaries and RTLs. It's been in compute duty for 3 weeks now, non-stop with 3 Titan Vs. Zero reason to tweak anything on that rig. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Some screen shots:
Click to expand...

Nice tho but i see your dilemma it makes sense tho i can do 125-130gb reads as it is still limited even when i run high multi and higher mesh i guess once you are in the 50-55ns you can call it a day in x299 even if your ram/cpu/mobo cant do better..... 

The problem i have with that 20 or +3 over cl at the beginning i didnt understand why i cant lower it down on par with the other 2s.. Till my board went to heaven with a permanent code FF.... 

When i started cleaning everything around.. I noticed one of my sticks on the gold contacts theres a few of them that are pilled off.... The gold plating felt partially off... its not burn its been like that since day 1.. i never check them when i bought them but im sure it was like that ot it felt off.... but I never cant have stable that particular timings above lets say 3700mhz is always 3 ahead of cl.. Sometimes when i start droping down rtls that particular stick dissapear out of the 4 he is a kind of a maniac by itself. So when i notice the gold contacts i did a mem run without that stick at that time on my asus x299m on tri channel and hold and behold the timing sticked on the stress test without errors..

I can rma but i don't know if gskill will return me a same set of sticks that perform the same... This 2 kits of bdie do very nice timings i bought them together.. Trfc i can drop them as low as 300trfc with 4200MHz under 1.45mV even do 1t at that speed as well.. So its a gamble for me at this point so i just deal with it like that, to me its not that important in this system.. It will drop the latency a tiny bit but if i get another kit and i cant lower trfc as low then its like the same in the end... 



I can try to plate the gold back.. I have done plating in japanese swords parts before its not that hard. But the plating kit was over 100$ back in those days... dont know exactly now i supposed it's higher now..


I left it running on ramtest still running it was like 18000% when i left to work [email protected]/20/[email protected] trfc is at 320 im tightening that one and tfaw as low as 12 the rest of timings auto is putting low ones on this board i will see.


Edit: well it passed with flying colors
im going to make the tras 38 and see if i can lower that trfc more at least to 290-300 if possible after some other tweaks..

rtls are 65s/10s @ 4200 all of them i can boot at 4400 but loose 2 sticks in the process try once just to see want it to make sure first 4200 was steady


----------



## wholeeo

Quick question guys, is there a general rule of what is an acceptable spread between tCL & tRCD/tRP?

edit: Also, are there any secondary/tertiary that can help lower tRCD/tRP?


----------



## bei fei

munternet said:


> Not sure if you have looked at the tutorial at the start of this forum and there is also a tutorial link in my sig.
> Pay to have a read of both if you haven't already and report back. Looks like there is much to do
> Are those sticks B-Die?


They are B-Die I verified with Typhoon Burner. 

I will look at your tutorial. Thanks for the information.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

clean a bit the stick and swap positions it with another one its doing good so far in the bigger picture lowering it will accomplish me nothing tho but here we go XD if i pass i be ok with 2 over instead of the 3 lol
also changed rtls to 63/65/63/65 instead of all of them been 65s 0 problems


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

wholeeo said:


> Quick question guys, is there a general rule of what is an acceptable spread between tCL & tRCD/tRP?
> 
> edit: Also, are there any secondary/tertiary that can help lower tRCD/tRP?


It really depends on the ICs on the sticks. Hynix, micron and Samsung (and others) have margins that vary by the physical size and array of the architecture. Most require a 1 or 2 spacing between CAS and the other 2, Samsung can handle it even across the three at most but the highest frequencies(like 4800, thru 4600)... always depending on the IMC and MB of course.


----------



## mouacyk

KedarWolf said:


> Yeah, Gigabyte and Asus use T-Topology on their four stick boards which will overclock better with four DIMMs than two.


I would like to get more information on this phenomenon. My previous readings seem to suggest that T-topology was meant to compete with daisy-chain, both in the 4-dimm configuration. It doesn't make sense that T-topology 4-dimm can beat 2-dimm overclocking (in the best of both implementations.)

Now, in terms of bandwidth advantage, 4-dimm seems to have an interweave feature that improves copy speeds.


----------



## fleps

Ok, now that my CPU IMC is super bad and wont allow anything above 4000Mhz to post, I decided to optimize the 4000mhz the best I can

Here's my attempt on improving the timing using the provided tutorial, passed 400% MemTest86

The numbers didn't changed much about my previous results, but all improved.

Is there anything still worth trying to improve the results? Anything still too loose on the numbers?

I was trying to get at 60 GB/s Read/Write but not sure it's possible with only 4000mhz. And my primary timings are already at minimum.

Thanks!


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## fleps

reachthesky said:


> Have you tried manually setting the RTT NOM/PARK/WR settings at the bottom of the memory timing section and then try booting above 4000?


No. What are those settings? What values you recommend? Should I set everything else back to Auto just to see if it works?

Edit: are you talking about the third timings part? If yes, yeah I have manually set all timings following the guide on this post https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html
Thanks


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## fleps

reachthesky said:


> These 6 settings at the bottom. You can try to leave them on auto or you can try setting them manually. I'm not sure which mobo you have but if you have a gigabyte aorus board, 60/60/120/120/40/40 tends to be a good starting point for 4000+ ram speeds.


Ah, my board is Asus, those settings are on a different page in the BIOS.

I have them on auto and on Asus they have predefined values, can't set 60 on the first one for example.

Never saw ppl changing those values for Intel platform on Asus, will do a bit of research.

Thanks.


----------



## truehighroller1

fleps said:


> Ah, my board is Asus, those settings are on a different page in the BIOS.
> 
> I have them on auto and on Asus they have predefined values, can't set 60 on the first one for example.
> 
> Never saw ppl changing those values for Intel platform on Asus, will do a bit of research.
> 
> Thanks.


I actually have a support ticket open with asus right now in regards to setting the rtl and io and iol's manually or not being able to I should say. I can manipulate them with the rtl init setting but that's it. We can't manually set them. I just opened the ticket today and the lady was actually very helpful and quick to call me back within three hours to ask me to fill out a support form to get more information and then she sent it to the development team / engineering team to get more information from them about my inquiry.. 

I wonder if the other settings he's mentioned have to be set to get the rtl's to set manually... I have not been able to find anything information wise in regards to setting those settings that he mentioned manually but, maybe you can drudge something up.. If you do tell me please. 

I have a Rampage vi extreme motherboard by the way.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## truehighroller1

reachthesky said:


> Does your bios have an option to adjust IOL offsets?


I have the following options in mine.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## truehighroller1

reachthesky said:


> I think they might be the DRAM IO COMP settings at the bottom of the last photo.


I tried to lock them in by themselves and won't boot. Turned off all training possible won't boot. Tried setting everything manually after turning everything off won't boot. I tried every combo of things possible won't boot. It's as if there's a glitch in the BIOS and you touch rtls at all, and it just says middle finger to you buddy, not doing it.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

zGunBLADEz said:


> clean a bit the stick and swap positions it with another one its doing good so far in the bigger picture lowering it will accomplish me nothing tho but here we go XD if i pass i be ok with 2 over instead of the 3 lol
> also changed rtls to 63/65/63/65 instead of all of them been 65s 0 problems


it would pass gsat but not ramtest it crapped out after 3hrs lol
back to 20 she went


----------



## pox02

stable i guess


----------



## zGunBLADEz

HCI stable XD


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> it would pass gsat but not ramtest it crapped out after 3hrs lol
> back to 20 she went


yeah, I don't get that ramtest fail... GSAT is gonna find a fault with the ram - maybe IO or cache? If you have access to mesh/ring voltage offset, try bumping that?


----------



## Jpmboy

pox02 said:


> stable i guess


Why guess? Run a stability test...


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> yeah, I don't get that ramtest fail... GSAT is gonna find a fault with the ram - maybe IO or cache? If you have access to mesh/ring voltage offset, try bumping that?


i have it on override right now.. 1.05mV set @ 31x its been stable tho so far in anything else i have thrown at it...

if i put it adaptive it gives me the offset option what you would recommend there to start with? i have try raising the voltage on the mesh/io/vsa no luck even lowering the mesh to 30x

uncore its at 400 btw


----------



## Jpmboy

zGunBLADEz said:


> i have it on override right now.. 1.05mV set @ 31x its been stable tho so far in anything else i have thrown at it...
> if i put it adaptive it gives me the offset option what you would recommend there to start with? i have try raising the voltage on the mesh/io/vsa no luck even lowering the mesh to 30x
> uncore its at 400 btw


You can go to 450 on the uncore with zero worry. and it is pretty common that increasing freq or even tightening timings on ram puts more load on cache... so bump Vcache a bit too. I have to run this 10980XE at 1.185V cache, the 7980XE across the room only needs 1.1Vcache for the same cache freq and higher ram frequency. Crazy - each is it's own challenge.


----------



## truehighroller1

What's up fellows. Just wanted to show you what I've been playing around with tonight all night, 10900x. I'm disappointed so far too minus the memory acting way better the cpu scores less then my 7900x. I'm going to push the memory some more tonight a little then post some more info test results.. I might end up returning this thing. I got a new power supply to and man does it make a difference in the rails stability.. My voltages are dead on what they should be 12v etc..

This is it running 4200 cas 17. The write is off compared to my 7900x but everything else is better.. The cpu just seems off when compared to my 7900x and running at the same speed..


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> What's up fellows. Just wanted to show you what I've been playing around with tonight all night, 10900x. I'm disappointed so far too minus the memory acting way better the cpu scores less then my 7900x. I'm going to push the memory some more tonight a little then post some more info test results.. I might end up returning this thing. I got a new power supply to and man does it make a difference in the rails stability.. My voltages are dead on what they should be 12v etc..
> 
> This is it running 4200 cas 17. The write is off compared to my 7900x but everything else is better.. The cpu just seems off when compared to my 7900x and running at the same speed..


you updated the R6E bios? If yes, disable vin tracking lower vccin and the performance will come back. It is likely power throttling.


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> you updated the R6E bios? If yes, disable vin tracking lower vccin and the performance will come back. It is likely power throttling.


Yeah. I'll give it a whirl tonight and through out the weekend. I'll post back with the results. I reflashed the bios with new cpu in and did disable the tracking but I'll try lowering the vccin more next. It was lower though.. thank you


----------



## KedarWolf

Jpmboy said:


> You can go to 450 on the uncore with zero worry. and it is pretty common that increasing freq or even tightening timings on ram puts more load on cache... so bump Vcache a bit too. I have to run this 10980XE at 1.185V cache, the 7980XE across the room only needs 1.1Vcache for the same cache freq and higher ram frequency. Crazy - each is it's own challenge.


 @Jpmboy

For the first time ever I think I'm going AMD for the CPU, 3950x (16 core, 32 thread) and an X570 MSI Godlike motherboard. It's a Daisy Chain motherboard, not T-Topology, and supports up to DDR4 5000 on the QVL list for two DIMMs of the four slots populated.

I'm not paying $1500 CAD for Corsair DDR4 5000 though, I'll get G.Skill 2x8GB 4800MHz for about $600 CAD, also on the QVL list.

I watched the Buildzoid breakdown on the motherboard and it has the DDR4 memory record and on the breakdown of the memory setup on the board, it's basically the best motherboard for two DIMM memory overclocking ever. plus a really great VRM setup.


----------



## Jpmboy

KedarWolf said:


> @Jpmboy
> 
> For the first time ever I think I'm going AMD for the CPU, 3950x (16 core, 32 thread) and an X570 MSI Godlike motherboard. It's a Daisy Chain motherboard, not T-Topology, and supports up to DDR4 5000 on the QVL list for two DIMMs of the four slots populated.
> 
> I'm not paying $1500 CAD for Corsair DDR4 5000 though, I'll get G.Skill 2x8GB 4800MHz for about $600 CAD, also on the QVL list.
> 
> I watched the Buildzoid breakdown on the motherboard and it has the DDR4 memory record and on the breakdown of the memory setup on the board, it's basically the best motherboard for two DIMM memory overclocking ever. plus a really great VRM setup.


Nothing wrong with going Red. I have an x470 board here running very strong. The 3950X is the best CPU (imo) on that side of the isle for sure. Ya might have to brush up on overclcoking ram on the platform tho. especially when you run stability tests.


----------



## Zemach

CPU 5Ghz cache 5Ghz Ram 5Ghz CL18 18 18 36 1.56v memtest200%


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Jpmboy

Zemach said:


> CPU 5Ghz cache 5Ghz Ram 5Ghz CL18 18 18 36 1.56v memtest200%


Crazy stuff with that Apex XI. Excellent cpu IMC too! :thumb:


----------



## munternet

Zemach said:


> CPU 5Ghz cache 5Ghz Ram 5Ghz CL18 18 18 36 1.56v memtest200%


Wow... how will my post get any attention after that 

I have an issue running GSAT on Linux in Windows 10 pro where it stops at the pause and restart lines. The cursor still flashes too.
The PC doesn't freeze and is still completely usable but it just doesn't progress any further.
I can run GSAT all day from a bootable linux USB stick with no errors.
I think LinX does a similar thing if that helps and maybe occt running linpack? Does that sound right?
Anyway, windows never freezes.

Any help appreciated 

Edit: It's only tests that have trouble. The PC has had zero issues, even during strenuous sessions of BFV. 

Still running 5.2GHz 4200MHz 17-17-17-36-T1 for some months now.
Max CPU temp 83c
Max Dimm temp 38c


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> Bahaha. I'll settle for #1 z390 Aorus Master 4 dimm configuration in the world .
> 
> How much sa/io you running?


I don't think that's the issue.
I can set the bios to defaults and the same thing happens.
Looking around the internet it has been an issue for people for years now and the test devs have been looking into it.
It wasn't doing it before I reverted to W10 1809.
Like I say, it's stable for months now and will pass GSAT without windows running, no trouble at all.
It's looking more like a software issue or something like that. Maybe something to do with ram allocation?? I am only guessing.
The overclock runs "real world" perfect


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> O I was just curious about the sa/io levels in general for c17/4200 on the gene, I unfortunately don't have any solutions for the issue you are facing or I would do tell.


I just ran a few cinebench R20 runs to show levels under stress.
It never reaches that high during normal use. 
Coolant temps are 33c as it is very hot this summer. It is 10c cooler in winter 

Edit: Running LLC 5 so only look at the vcore under load 1.252v
Also running an AVX offset for summer as it's only used in BFV game transitioning.


----------



## truehighroller1

munternet said:


> I just ran a few cinebench R20 runs to show levels under stress.
> It never reaches that high during normal use.
> Coolant temps are 33c as it is very hot this summer. It is 10c cooler in winter
> 
> Edit: Running LLC 5 so only look at the vcore under load 1.252v
> Also running an AVX offset for summer as it's only used in BFV game transitioning.


I just quickly glimpsed over your post here quoted and the rest on this page. Are you pointing out how your core clocks are spiking and the core voltage are spiking as well? I'm curious because I've noticed that behavior on this new 10900x here on my r6e motherboard and I feel like looking at the screen shots you posted you seem to be having the same issue as me that I've noticed.. If not not, never mind but mine are from what I've witnessed.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Wow... how will my post get any attention after that
> 
> I have an issue running GSAT on Linux in Windows 10 pro *where it stops at the pause and restart lines. *The cursor still flashes too.
> The PC doesn't freeze and is still completely usable but it just doesn't progress any further.
> I can run GSAT all day from a bootable linux USB stick with no errors.
> I think LinX does a similar thing if that helps and maybe occt running linpack? Does that sound right?
> Anyway, windows never freezes.
> 
> Any help appreciated
> 
> Edit: It's only tests that have trouble. The PC has had zero issues, even during strenuous sessions of BFV.
> 
> Still running 5.2GHz 4200MHz 17-17-17-36-T1 for some months now.
> Max CPU temp 83c
> Max Dimm temp 38c


next time it happens, put the cursor in the active GSAT window, make the window active (top) and hit the carriage return. The report/write cmnd in dos fouled.

If you are not using the "--pause_delay [T=1]" where T= the run time set in the command. try it at the end on the rest of the run command. the "pause/spike" component of GSAT is not needed (at all) for testing a PC. And be sure you are not using more than the _available _memory. Leave 3-6GB for windows. Doing so will still test all the installed ram, just not concurrently.
edit: based on your LinX and OCCT comment...
If any window or the entire system becomes unresponsive at the end of a test or bench, it is likely V_ovs undershoot. Either increase vcore or decrease LLC compensation (eg, less droop).


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> next time it happens, put the cursor in the active GSAT window, make the window active (top) and hit the carriage return. The report/write cmnd in dos fouled.
> 
> If you are not using the "--pause_delay [T=1]" where T= the run time set in the command. try it at the end on the rest of the run command. the "pause/spike" component of GSAT is not needed (at all) for testing a PC. And be sure you are not using more than the _available _memory. Leave 3-6GB for windows. Doing so will still test all the installed ram, just not concurrently.
> edit: based on your LinX and OCCT comment...
> If any window or the entire system becomes unresponsive at the end of a test or bench, it is likely V_ovs undershoot. Either increase vcore or decrease LLC compensation (eg, less droop).


Just ran GSAT with stressapptest -W -M 13312 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400 and it completed nicely. I didn't realize the pause was not necessary.

Do I really need to run super stressful tests to see if I'm windows stable?? Seems to punish the PC when it's done nothing wrong.

On another note , is the server under maintenance? There have been posts moving around and disappearing altogether.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> You can go to 450 on the uncore with zero worry. and it is pretty common that increasing freq or even tightening timings on ram puts more load on cache... so bump Vcache a bit too. I have to run this 10980XE at 1.185V cache, the 7980XE across the room only needs 1.1Vcache for the same cache freq and higher ram frequency. Crazy - each is it's own challenge.


well tried 450-500 uncore lowered mesh to 30x raised mesh to 1.15 as soon i run gsat with all 17s error galore raised to 20 error free so now i decided that as far as they go.
so now i lowered uncore to 375, lowered my dimm voltage to 1.42mV actually 1.41mV from 1.45mV and now is chewing a ramtest load... next hci and call it a day on that...


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> you updated the R6E bios? If yes, disable vin tracking lower vccin and the performance will come back. It is likely power throttling.


Ok so this cpu is way different with this motherboard. It was clocking itself to 5.5ghz at one point when using 48 as the max multiplier along with the bios option sync cores through my bios thus some of my issues. Also the voltage core acts the same way in regards to jumping way above what I set it too. I captured it going to 5.2GHz~ I didn't bother capturing the 5.5Ghz but I could make it do it again for sure and capture it too. I figured out if I use the option by core usage and set the stages of clock that way, I can limit it to 5ghz.

Now I have to figure out how to set the voltage by core because I don't see the option in this $700 motherboard BIOS that Asus sold to me................. I can do it via turbo v core supposedly looking through the options though I haven't tried it yet. I still don't see my write speed acting correct even using stock settings either..

One screen shot here shows the 5.2GHz and the other shows the 5GHz locked finally.

Edit / Update: I give up, it's just not worth it and not even as powerful as my 7900x. I'm taking it back and calling it quits on this 10900x. I tried everything under the sun to get it to act even a tiny bit more powerful then my 7900x and it just couldn't do it.. I put my 7900x back in. 

It needs way to much voltage compared to my 7900x and that's pathetic for how many years newer it is.


----------



## SunnyStefan

truehighroller1 said:


> Now I have to figure out how to set the voltage by core



This is the first I've heard of this, is this actually a feature on some high end motherboards?!? I'm probably misinterpreting what you meant.


----------



## bp7178

SunnyStefan said:


> This is the first I've heard of this, is this actually a feature on some high end motherboards?!? I'm probably misinterpreting what you meant.


On the HEDT platform you can set a speed and voltage offset per core IIRC. No such feature on mainstream processors though. 

I'm open to critiques on my timings. Memory overclocking on the XI Gene was much easier than on my old XI Extreme. I'm going for more a 24/7 stable instead of hammering it with voltage for a benchmark. I'm only at 1.425v for DRAM and 1.2500v for both VCCIO and VCCSA, so I likely have some room to move up. I had a lot of difficulty booting up higher than 4300Mhz DRAM. I bailed on that and just focused on making the timings tighter. This is with 5.3Ghz core and 4.9Ghz cache on a 9900KS.


----------



## truehighroller1

SunnyStefan said:


> This is the first I've heard of this, is this actually a feature on some high end motherboards?!? I'm probably misinterpreting what you meant.





bp7178 said:


> On the HEDT platform you can set a speed and voltage offset per core IIRC. No such feature on mainstream processors though.
> 
> I'm open to critiques on my timings. Memory overclocking on the XI Gene was much easier than on my old XI Extreme. I'm going for more a 24/7 stable instead of hammering it with voltage for a benchmark. I'm only at 1.425v for DRAM and 1.2500v for both VCCIO and VCCSA, so I likely have some room to move up. I had a lot of difficulty booting up higher than 4300Mhz DRAM. I bailed on that and just focused on making the timings tighter. This is with 5.3Ghz core and 4.9Ghz cache on a 9900KS.


Yeah I found the option to set it per core offset in the BIOS after looking more but man it just gets to hot and needs to much voltage. Soldered IHS and while I could delid it because I have the right tools, I honestly don't think it's worth it at this point.


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> Yeah I found the option to set it per core offset in the BIOS after looking more but man it just gets to hot and needs to much voltage. Soldered IHS and while I could delid it because I have the right tools, I honestly don't think it's worth it at this point.


Hi,
Those core max temps are crazy different for sure 
That velocity may not be seated well 

Were you rotated goofy or normal mount where the ek logo is on bottom left on the evo ?
I've only used ek evo and it liked goofy mount more than upright.


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Those core max temps are crazy different for sure
> That velocity may not be seated well
> 
> Were you rotated goofy or normal mount where the ek logo is on bottom left on the evo ?
> I've only used ek evo and it liked goofy mount more than upright.


Mines installed like the pictured attached which is what it states to do but, I guess that would be standard. I think I have to remount it again anyway so I might do that today. I don't think I have a good spread of thermal paste on it right now. I did a bios flash back as well with the 7900x back in noticed that I might have had some bios corruption going on too because I was no longer seeing my raid screen before and thought it was normal with the newer bios but, now I'm seeing it again after the bios flashback which I find very odd.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

truehighroller1 said:


> Ok so this cpu is way different with this motherboard. It was clocking itself to 5.5ghz at one point when using 48 as the max multiplier along with the bios option sync cores through my bios thus some of my issues. Also the voltage core acts the same way in regards to jumping way above what I set it too. I captured it going to 5.2GHz~ I didn't bother capturing the 5.5Ghz but I could make it do it again for sure and capture it too. I figured out if I use the option by core usage and set the stages of clock that way, I can limit it to 5ghz.
> 
> Now I have to figure out how to set the voltage by core because I don't see the option in this $700 motherboard BIOS that Asus sold to me................. I can do it via turbo v core supposedly looking through the options though I haven't tried it yet. I still don't see my write speed acting correct even using stock settings either..
> 
> One screen shot here shows the 5.2GHz and the other shows the 5GHz locked finally.
> 
> Edit / Update: I give up, it's just not worth it and not even as powerful as my 7900x. I'm taking it back and calling it quits on this 10900x. I tried everything under the sun to get it to act even a tiny bit more powerful then my 7900x and it just couldn't do it.. I put my 7900x back in.
> 
> It needs way to much voltage compared to my 7900x and that's pathetic for how many years newer it is.


My evga micro2 didnt have it on the beginning on the bios how to set up per core and do each core individually so i went to evga forums and complained about it and they finally added the feature in a bios update so props to evga on that it took them over 2 years since x299 release to somebody to complaint about it lol. neither the evga dark have it which is their flag board for x299.. I dont understand how you going to leave out a feature like this which is very helpful to notch the best overclock possible...
People are dead set on all multi overclock... you can do per core in low voltage i can do 10x cores over all core like 10x 47x and 8 cores 46x instead of all 46x all of them at the same vid... Why waste that extra perf... or if you have some demon cores which are too high on temps you can lower them as well.. my package temp on all cores in one of my overclocks is as tight as 5c difference between coldest and hottest using this option.. without sacrificing perf perse.. I just upped the coldest cores to get as close to the hottest one lol you can do it backwards as well XD

heres a example of 30min+ per core overclock test on an AVX with not avx offsets of 430watts peaks load out of the socket after psu/vrms the real wattage you are dissipating out the cpu "NOT THE WALL PULL" on my 7980xe, you aint using all cores right now in any benchmark out there including 3dmark you aint seeing 100% cpu utilization never so why waste the potential
https://www.overclock.net/forum/28338830-post1873.html

i was using intel xtu to set per core before that. well, still use that to do overclocks on the fly when im on windows..

heres the tool
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24075/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU

if it doesnt work "freezes on main screen when opening" try finding another version till eventually let you do it.


----------



## truehighroller1

zGunBLADEz said:


> My evga micro2 didnt have it on the beginning on the bios how to set up per core and do each core individually so i went to evga forums and complained about it and they finally added the feature in a bios update so props to evga on that it took them over 2 years since x299 release to somebody to complaint about it lol. neither the evga dark have it which is their flag board for x299.. I dont understand how you going to leave out a feature like this which is very helpful to notch the best overclock possible...
> People are dead set on all multi overclock... you can do per core in low voltage i can do 10x cores over all core like 10x 47x and 8 cores 46x instead of all 46x all of them at the same vid... Why waste that extra perf... or if you have some demon cores which are too high on temps you can lower them as well.. my package temp on all cores in one of my overclocks is as tight as 5c difference between coldest and hottest using this option.. without sacrificing perf perse.. I just upped the coldest cores to get as close to the hottest one lol you can do it backwards as well XD
> 
> heres a example of 30min+ per core overclock test on an AVX with not avx offsets of 430watts peaks load out of the socket after psu/vrms the real wattage you are dissipating out the cpu "NOT THE WALL PULL" on my 7980xe, you aint using all cores right now in any benchmark out there including 3dmark you aint seeing 100% cpu utilization never so why waste the potential
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/28338830-post1873.html
> 
> i was using intel xtu to set per core before that. well, still use that to do overclocks on the fly when im on windows..
> 
> heres the tool
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24075/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU
> 
> if it doesnt work "freezes on main screen when opening" try finding another version till eventually let you do it.


I get what you're saying but I look at it this way. 

In my opinion what this comes down to is they took and drained this architecture dry to the bone. Not a single drop of blood left in this architecture and that's why we're doing what you're saying to do. Each core separate each voltage separate. I'm an old man and have been overclocking from the get go. I'm willing to change styles 100% but I also will call, a pig with lipstick what it is. This is a pig. I went to the reddit post where they had engineers talking to people taking questions about this generation of cpu's. They had no clue what they were talking about had to bring in five other people to answer questions for them. They sucked this thing dry and did a horrible job at it.

I told my wife I look at it like this. They took this cpu generation and said, we can overclock it more stock and make more money. We're engineers, we know what we're doing better then these people who've been doing it for the whole life span of cpu's being overclocked. Wrong. They had no clue what they were doing and it shows. I 100% get what you're saying and I appreciate your guidance, it's not worth 5% tops~~~~ increase. I don't see any so far based off of my testing. Actually I see less performance from my testing which I'm willing to bet I could maybe get 2% in the long wrong compared to my 7900x, maybe.

It's a pig man.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

truehighroller1 said:


> I get what you're saying but I look at it this way.
> 
> In my opinion what this comes down to is they took and drained this architecture dry to the bone. Not a single drop of blood left in this architecture and that's why we're doing what you're saying to do. Each core separate each voltage separate. I'm an old man and have been overclocking from the get go. I'm willing to change styles 100% but I also will call, a pig with lipstick what it is. This is a pig. I went to the reddit post where they had engineers talking to people taking questions about this generation of cpu's. They had no clue what they were talking about had to bring in five other people to answer questions for them. They sucked this thing dry and did a horrible job at it.
> 
> I told my wife I look at it like this. They took this cpu generation and said, we can overclock it more stock and make more money. We're engineers, we know what we're doing better then these people who've been doing it for the whole life span of cpu's being overclocked. Wrong. They had no clue what they were doing and it shows. I 100% get what you're saying and I appreciate your guidance, it's not worth 5% tops~~~~ increase. I don't see any so far based off of my testing. Actually I see less performance from my testing which I'm willing to bet I could maybe get 2% in the long wrong compared to my 7900x, maybe.
> 
> It's a pig man.


well yes if you look at it that way its like me i enter x299 with a 7820x then i bought a 7940x at $1060 brand new when they were at full price still.. then i finally maxed out with a used 7980xe i bought for $700s
cant complaint.. the upgrade path was either a 3950x vs that used 7980xe or the tr 3 $1400
7980xe is better than the 3950x in every way possible it costed me less even if is used the features alone to me were worth the money..

the 3950x is dual channel and it dont have not even half the features so its a no brainer at this point plus i would need a new mobo to go with as well.. 
i mess up my first micro2 mobo by accident i spilled coffee on it XD.. so i had to ched $150 on a new one..

so between the cpu and mobo im talking about what? $850 ryzen 3950x would be more including a good board to go with... they were also above $750 msrb when i got the 7980xe bcuz they were shortages of 3950x and re sellers tried to suck as most money they can amd did an intel an paper launch it lol..

tr3 24 core cpu with a decent mobo would be around what $1,800-2,000? its a no brainer for me which one to get... i would not see the use of 24-32 core other than benchies but at least i maxed out my x299 at his current state.

Now i bought this 7980xe recently even if the new 10th gen were price equal i would still choose 7th gen for the mere fact you can delid them...

so yeah i got what you saying. its the same thing i been saying all along on intel skylake''ish ipcs theres barely anything left on that barrel..

btw its not 5% its more.. less heat, less power consumption..

i have driven this 7980xe to suck all way upto 1khw+ for benchs up to a point that he killed one of the psus when i was trying to split the load for better power delivery... there are not that different vs a better tweaked cpu in a 24/7 setup.
if you look at a conservative tweaked overclock pulling less than 450w out of the wall vs one that pulls up to 1khw+

4622 vs 5062 is 9%
10906 vs 11864 is 9%

vs + 126% more power consumption... that its not even stable is a suicide run i can narrow that gap to less than 3% on a more modest overclock that it is stable and be consuming less than 550w out of the wall.. Still we aint seeing this cpus to work at 100% in most apps we use day to day.. no way in hell i be driving this cpu day to day using more than 500w+ out of the socket that i have to dissipate as actual heat (1khw+ out of the wall) sustained in the long run... i can cool it but whats the point tho>?>


----------



## truehighroller1

zGunBLADEz said:


> well yes if you look at it that way its like me i enter x299 with a 7820x then i bought a 7940x at $1060 brand new when they were at full price still.. then i finally maxed out with a used 7980xe i bought for $700s
> cant complaint.. the upgrade path was either a 3950x vs that used 7980xe or the tr 3 $1400
> 7980xe is better than the 3950x in every way possible it costed me less even if is used the features alone to me were worth the money..
> 
> the 3950x is dual channel and it dont have not even half the features so its a no brainer at this point plus i would need a new mobo to go with as well..
> i mess up my first micro2 mobo by accident i spilled coffee on it XD.. so i had to ched $150 on a new one..
> 
> so between the cpu and mobo im talking about what? $850 ryzen 3950x would be more including a good board to go with... they were also above $750 msrb when i got the 7980xe bcuz they were shortages of 3950x and re sellers tried to suck as most money they can amd did an intel an paper launch it lol..
> 
> tr3 24 core cpu with a decent mobo would be around what $1,800-2,000? its a no brainer for me which one to get... i would not see the use of 24-32 core other than benchies but at least i maxed out my x299 at his current state.
> 
> Now i bought this 7980xe recently even if the new 10th gen were price equal i would still choose 7th gen for the mere fact you can delid them...
> 
> so yeah i got what you saying. its the same thing i been saying all along on intel skylake''ish ipcs theres barely anything left on that barrel..
> 
> btw its not 5% its more.. less heat, less power consumption..
> 
> i have driven this 7980xe to suck all way upto 1khw+ for benchs up to a point that he killed one of the psus when i was trying to split the load for better power delivery... there are not that different vs a better tweaked cpu in a 24/7 setup.
> if you look at a conservative tweaked overclock pulling less than 450w out of the wall vs one that pulls up to 1khw+
> 
> 4622 vs 5062 is 9%
> 10906 vs 11864 is 9%
> 
> vs + 126% more power consumption... that its not even stable is a suicide run i can narrow that gap to less than 3% on a more modest overclock that it is stable and be consuming less than 550w out of the wall.. Still we aint seeing this cpus to work at 100% in most apps we use day to day.. no way in hell i be driving this cpu day to day using more than 500w+ out of the socket that i have to dissipate as actual heat (1khw+ out of the wall) sustained in the long run... i can cool it but whats the point tho>?>


Exactly, this thing is more heat less performance. I just remounted it and it's a solid mount this time. Bios is fresh and clean. It just performs less then my 7900x. Also I goofy mounted it this time.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

truehighroller1 said:


> Exactly, this thing is more heat less performance. I just remounted it and it's a solid mount this time. Bios is fresh and clean. It just performs less then my 7900x. Also I goofy mounted it this time.


if im not mistaking @Jpmboy did say something about his 10980xe performing less than his 7980xe also linus say something about this but i dont take this youtubers findings and words for crap... i just watch them bcuz they entertain me to some point lol

did you try what jpmboy and play with the "vin" input?

heres the linus video on that i just notice it that he "edited" blurred the 7th gen or something else numbers -_- i podcast their crap while at work lol
https://youtu.be/vuaiqcjf0bs?t=316


----------



## Hiikeri

Zemach said:


> CPU 5Ghz cache 5Ghz Ram 5Ghz CL18 18 18 36 1.56v memtest200%


Nice job. 
Cpu still alive? VccIO voltage shouldnt never ever be higher than Vcore!

Vccio voltage are made from Vcore voltage, and if its higher than Vcore its a bad thing for IMC/CPU (MSI engineer-overclocker told that on MSI Z390 overclocking video guide).


----------



## munternet

bp7178 said:


> On the HEDT platform you can set a speed and voltage offset per core IIRC. No such feature on mainstream processors though.
> 
> I'm open to critiques on my timings. Memory overclocking on the XI Gene was much easier than on my old XI Extreme. I'm going for more a 24/7 stable instead of hammering it with voltage for a benchmark. I'm only at 1.425v for DRAM and 1.2500v for both VCCIO and VCCSA, so I likely have some room to move up. I had a lot of difficulty booting up higher than 4300Mhz DRAM. I bailed on that and just focused on making the timings tighter. This is with 5.3Ghz core and 4.9Ghz cache on a 9900KS.


Do you have an Aida64 memory and cache result and an HWInfo shot to go with that? cheers
And how did you go with 1T?


----------



## bp7178

munternet said:


> Do you have an Aida64 memory and cache result and an HWInfo shot to go with that? cheers
> And how did you go with 1T?


TBH, I never tried 1T.


----------



## truehighroller1

zGunBLADEz said:


> if im not mistaking @Jpmboy did say something about his 10980xe performing less than his 7980xe also linus say something about this but i dont take this youtubers findings and words for crap... i just watch them bcuz they entertain me to some point lol
> 
> did you try what jpmboy and play with the "vin" input?
> 
> heres the linus video on that i just notice it that he "edited" blurred the 7th gen or something else numbers -_- i podcast their crap while at work lol
> https://youtu.be/vuaiqcjf0bs?t=316


Yes I did try playing with the voltages and dropping them more a lot more to the point of instability then back up again a little. I can 100% tell you, you can trust me as I'm not selling my videos. I've just always had a gift with overclocking and love doing it. The chips are garbage. I tweaked each one separately voltage wise and still, it just wants way more voltage then my 7900x. I only have to give my 7900x 1.25v at 4.8Ghz all cores. That thing wanted 1.4+ on some of the cores and 1.4 on some of the others and the lowest I think was 1.39 on a select few. The performance was not close to my 7900x at 4.8 and with my 7900x only having a cache speed of 3.1. The 10900x I had it at 3.2 cache and the memory write was consistently lower for some odd reason. I could get higher memory clocks but again the write was off compared to the 7900x by about 10Gb maybe more probably like 13 - 14Gb. 

I never could get it to go up in write speed memory wise for some reason. Lowering vccin didn't help and or vccsa and or cpu input voltage etc. I cranked away for about 3 days straight on it and had lots of coffee. Lost a decent amount of blood on sharp objects in the case lol. I mounted it three different times. I'm definitely taking it back at this point. I'm back on my 7900x right now.


----------



## munternet

bp7178 said:


> TBH, I never tried 1T.


I have started a thread for Max XI Gene if you would like to post your results in there  There is a link in my sig.

I also have a general question for ram overclocking...
If I set my cpu and cache overclock to adaptive, does that mean the memory will have less trouble training and booting at higher frequencies or tighter timings??


----------



## zGunBLADEz

truehighroller1 said:


> Yes I did try playing with the voltages and dropping them more a lot more to the point of instability then back up again a little. I can 100% tell you, you can trust me as I'm not selling my videos. I've just always had a gift with overclocking and love doing it. The chips are garbage. I tweaked each one separately voltage wise and still, it just wants way more voltage then my 7900x. I only have to give my 7900x 1.25v at 4.8Ghz all cores. That thing wanted 1.4+ on some of the cores and 1.4 on some of the others and the lowest I think was 1.39 on a select few. The performance was not close to my 7900x at 4.8 and with my 7900x only having a cache speed of 3.1. The 10900x I had it at 3.2 cache and the memory write was consistently lower for some odd reason. I could get higher memory clocks but again the write was off compared to the 7900x by about 10Gb maybe more probably like 13 - 14Gb.
> 
> I never could get it to go up in write speed memory wise for some reason. Lowering vccin didn't help and or vccsa and or cpu input voltage etc. I cranked away for about 3 days straight on it and had lots of coffee. Lost a decent amount of blood on sharp objects in the case lol. I mounted it three different times. I'm definitely taking it back at this point. I'm back on my 7900x right now.


i dont blame you at all man.. if you havent delid yet do so... stick with the 7900x or do like me and hunt for a 7980xe lol 

you did the tests yourself, you compared them both theres nothing else to look for..



> I told my wife I look at it like this. They took this cpu generation and said, we can overclock it more stock and make more money. We're engineers, we know what we're doing better then these people who've been doing it for the whole life span of cpu's being overclocked. Wrong. They had no clue what they were doing and it shows. I 100% get what you're saying and I appreciate your guidance, it's not worth 5% tops~~~~ increase. I don't see any so far based off of my testing. Actually I see less performance from my testing which I'm willing to bet I could maybe get 2% in the long wrong compared to my 7900x, maybe.


also i forgot to add something you mentioned about intel... This intel division "overclocking team" recommended voltages as high as 1.425V and to never surpass 80c on hedt thats what they said they run...
in reality thats not even possible unless you are using like very very veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy exotic cooling like "phase cooling even so this is exotic" and not any phase setup will do lol.... even me that i have a chiller as the most 24/7 setup possible thats its above the 1%ers that dont have a chiller for 24/7 setup maintaining the water above dewpoint ITS IMPOSSIBLE not to stay under 80c at that voltage.. now if they are referring to the TCAse temps pfff piece of cake lol

Even in Chicago weather with the window open and having the radiator intaking -20c fresh ambient air in to it... which it beats my chiller lol so thats that.. once i throw a good load at it at that voltage pffffff 80c is out of the window lol


I even have tried running a permanent flow of cool water which dont need no rad to cool it straight from the fossip in one end and the other end back in the sewage on chicago at his coldest where pipes freezes because of this...
Even in the summer that water is cold can be 100f outside and that water is cold as hell lol..

heres on that
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/inside-intels-secret-overclocking-lab



> Speaking as enthusiasts, the engineers told us they feel perfectly fine running thier Coffee Lake chips at home at 1.425V with conventional cooling, which is higher than the 1.35V we typically recommend as the 'safe' ceiling in our reviews. For Skylake-X, the team says they run their personal machines anywhere from 1.4V to 1.425V if they can keep it cool enough, with the latter portion of the statement being strongly emphasized.
> 
> At home, the lab engineers consider a load temperature above 80C to be a red alert, meaning that's the no-fly zone, but temps that remain steady in the mid-70’s are considered safe. The team also strongly recommends using adaptive voltage targets for overclocking and leaving C-States enabled. Not to mention using AVX offsets to keep temperatures in check during AVX-heavy workloads.


empathize on the *conventional cooling....* sure intel sure
a chiller can be considered already exotic not normal not conventional.. open window in chicago beats the chiller and running a constant flow of same temp cold water out of the fossip both of them 3 are not "conventional" and not talking about tests done that dont utilize 100% all cores the cpu or quick sporadic quick tests... Im talking tests like blender which is the closest of the usable loads out there realistic speaking.. not talking about benchmarks of games that uses 5% of the cpu either.. 1.425v is more than 500w+ almost 600w+maybe more depends of your mobo and vrms and how cool they are on a blender benchmark sustained load out of the cpu socket itself.. this is the actual watts you are required to cool which is over 1khw out of the wall sustained for over 30min+ on a 18 core cpu


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> Mines installed like the pictured attached which is what it states to do but, I guess that would be standard. I think I have to remount it again anyway so I might do that today. I don't think I have a good spread of thermal paste on it right now. I did a bios flash back as well with the 7900x back in noticed that I might have had some bios corruption going on too because I was no longer seeing my raid screen before and thought it was normal with the newer bios but, now I'm seeing it again after the bios flashback which I find very odd.


Hi,
Yes I'd rotate that bad boy for some reason it works best.


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> Yes I did try playing with the voltages and dropping them more a lot more to the point of instability then back up again a little. I can 100% tell you, you can trust me as I'm not selling my videos. I've just always had a gift with overclocking and love doing it. The chips are garbage. I tweaked each one separately voltage wise and still, it just wants way more voltage then my 7900x. I only have to give my 7900x 1.25v at 4.8Ghz all cores. That thing wanted 1.4+ on some of the cores and 1.4 on some of the others and the lowest I think was 1.39 on a select few. The performance was not close to my 7900x at 4.8 and with my 7900x only having a cache speed of 3.1. The 10900x I had it at 3.2 cache and the memory write was consistently lower for some odd reason. I could get higher memory clocks but again the write was off compared to the 7900x by about 10Gb maybe more probably like 13 - 14Gb.
> 
> I never could get it to go up in write speed memory wise for some reason. Lowering vccin didn't help and or vccsa and or cpu input voltage etc. I cranked away for about 3 days straight on it and had lots of coffee. Lost a decent amount of blood on sharp objects in the case lol. I mounted it three different times. I'm definitely taking it back at this point. I'm back on my 7900x right now.


Hi,
4.8 on my old 7900x delidded always wanted 1.25v with no avx offset applied 
9940x is no different 

Only question was how far apart the max core temp was from the coolest core temp was 
If either were within 10c of each other I considered that a good mount position and block/ paste contact.

Delid complicated this because you also had LM application quirks to deal with too/ soldered chips not so much
But I did rma a 9940x because core temperature spread was always 19c apart from each other at just 4.5 9940x's turbo boost frequency nearly
Even Intel said that is not normal and approved the rma.


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> Exactly, *this thing is more heat less performance*. I just remounted it and it's a solid mount this time. Bios is fresh and clean. It just performs less then my 7900x. Also I goofy mounted it this time.


well, the 10980XE is not gonna "perform less" than a 7900X. I just said that on a clock for clock basis, the 10980XE seems a bit less than a 7980XE. this is likely due to hardware exploit mitigations. And without a doubt, the 7980XE will run hotter unless you delid it a nd void the warranty.


zGunBLADEz said:


> if im not mistaking @Jpmboy did say something about his 10980xe performing less than his 7980xe also linus say something about this but i dont take this youtubers findings and words for crap... i just watch them bcuz they entertain me to some point lol
> did you try what jpmboy and play with the "vin" input?
> heres the linus video on that i just notice it that he "edited" blurred the 7th gen or something else numbers -_- i podcast their crap while at work lol
> https://youtu.be/vuaiqcjf0bs?t=316


yeah, worth reading this as you pointed out: https://www.tomshardware.com/features/inside-intels-secret-overclocking-lab


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> well, the 10980XE is not gonna "perform less" than a 7900X. I just said that on a clock for clock basis, the 10980XE seems a bit less than a 7980XE. this is likely due to hardware exploit mitigations. And without a doubt, the 7980XE will run hotter unless you delid it a nd void the warranty.
> 
> yeah, worth reading this as you pointed out: https://www.tomshardware.com/features/inside-intels-secret-overclocking-lab


Yep I could picture the 10980xe running better then my 7900x no doubt. Mines a 10900x. I think you knew that but making sure. I'll check your post out and most importantly, thank you JP.

@zGunBLADEz


Spoiler






zGunBLADEz said:


> i dont blame you at all man.. if you havent delid yet do so... stick with the 7900x or do like me and hunt for a 7980xe lol
> 
> you did the tests yourself, you compared them both theres nothing else to look for..
> 
> 
> 
> also i forgot to add something you mentioned about intel... This intel division "overclocking team" recommended voltages as high as 1.425V and to never surpass 80c on hedt thats what they said they run...
> in reality thats not even possible unless you are using like very very veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy exotic cooling like "phase cooling even so this is exotic" and not any phase setup will do lol.... even me that i have a chiller as the most 24/7 setup possible thats its above the 1%ers that dont have a chiller for 24/7 setup maintaining the water above dewpoint ITS IMPOSSIBLE not to stay under 80c at that voltage.. now if they are referring to the TCAse temps pfff piece of cake lol
> 
> Even in Chicago weather with the window open and having the radiator intaking -20c fresh ambient air in to it... which it beats my chiller lol so thats that.. once i throw a good load at it at that voltage pffffff 80c is out of the window lol
> 
> 
> I even have tried running a permanent flow of cool water which dont need no rad to cool it straight from the fossip in one end and the other end back in the sewage on chicago at his coldest where pipes freezes because of this...
> Even in the summer that water is cold can be 100f outside and that water is cold as hell lol..
> 
> heres on that
> https://www.tomshardware.com/features/inside-intels-secret-overclocking-lab
> 
> 
> 
> empathize on the *conventional cooling....* sure intel sure
> a chiller can be considered already exotic not normal not conventional.. open window in chicago beats the chiller and running a constant flow of same temp cold water out of the fossip both of them 3 are not "conventional" and not talking about tests done that dont utilize 100% all cores the cpu or quick sporadic quick tests... Im talking tests like blender which is the closest of the usable loads out there realistic speaking.. not talking about benchmarks of games that uses 5% of the cpu either.. 1.425v is more than 500w+ almost 600w+maybe more depends of your mobo and vrms and how cool they are on a blender benchmark sustained load out of the cpu socket itself.. this is the actual watts you are required to cool which is over 1khw out of the wall sustained for over 30min+ on a 18 core cpu






Yeah I saw that too, they're FOS lol. From what I've been reading the most recent microcode has made these cpu's run hotter too for a lot of people. Yeah my four radiator setup was having issues keeping up and it never has issues keep up, that says something.


----------



## ThrashZone

truehighroller1 said:


> Yep I could picture the 10980xe running better then my 7900x no doubt. Mines a 10900x. I think you knew that but making sure. I'll check your post out and most importantly, thank you JP.


Hi,
Did you disable mitigations ?

https://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm


----------



## truehighroller1

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Did you disable mitigations ?
> 
> https://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm


No I did not. Just checked it on my 7900x and it says protected. I'm going to see how much of a difference it makes on my 7900x temp wise now thank you.

Meh: Little difference not much honestly. Sigh. Thank you.


----------



## bp7178

munternet said:


> I have started a thread for Max XI Gene if you would like to post your results in there  There is a link in my sig.
> 
> I also have a general question for ram overclocking...
> If I set my cpu and cache overclock to adaptive, does that mean the memory will have less trouble training and booting at higher frequencies or tighter timings??


Adaptive refers to the CPU core voltage and won't effect memory training. Its an Asus thing and works in a similar way to offset mode but allows the user to set a target voltage instead of manipulating offset values. 

I'm using LLC 5 so I have a high voltage set in the BIOS, 1.480v which will be close to 1.465v idle in Windows. Granted this isn't pulling a huge amount of current as there isn't any work being done but I'd rather not idle so high. 

With adaptive I can idle around 0.648v in Windows when the CPU drops to 800mhz.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> I have started a thread for Max XI Gene if you would like to post your results in there  There is a link in my sig.
> 
> I also have a general question for ram overclocking...
> *If I set my cpu and cache overclock to adaptive,* does that mean the memory will have less trouble training and booting at higher frequencies or tighter timings??


That will depend on the platform. For 1151 socketed chipsets (where core and cache come off the same voltage rail) no probem, no effect on IO/cache. On x99, x299 etc, where core and cache have independent voltage control, yes since on these platforms you are unlikely to run cache at turbo multipliers so therefore adaptive cache is a problem - adaptive can only add voltage to the VID for the frequency request IF that frequency request is a turbo multiplier, and runs the VID at any multipliers below the first turbo multiplier. It is the same reason why adaptive does not work with 125 or 166 bclk - not likely using turbo Ms at those straps/bclk.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, the NIC in my MSI Z390 Ace is acting up and keeps dropping packages on the upload.. The WiFi controller is working fine so it has to be the useless Killer networks E2500 that's the problem.. or it's horrible drivers. 

I saw a open box Maxi XI Hero for a great deal (like, €210). Should I get that board? How does it behave for 2x8GB B-Die's? And of course it can run my CPU OC just fine but just curious if people here have some upsides and downsides for that board compared to my Ace.


----------



## davidm71

*Gskill*

Hi,

Got this dual rank kit running at 3600mhz and want to fine tune it. Seems HCL Memtest stable. At 1.40 ddr volts and VCCIO 1.18v VCCSA 1.2v (0.2 v higher in HWInfo). Had issues in past with few months ago with Windows failing to complete boot but it went away after reinstall. Anyhow main problem is that 1 out of 25 posts sometimes stalls out. So set eventual DDR volts to 1.385 with 1.42 post volts. This once again caused Windows scrolling wheel boot failure. So back up to 1.42v/1.40v eventual at these timings:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=330586&thumb=1

CPU not really overclocked except not really an Apex X but an Apex IX (long story running coffelake 9700k on Z270 board). CPU set at adaptive turbo 1.29 v with Auto for frequency defaults.

So any advice on keeping it stable would be appreciated.

Running this kit: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232379?Item=N82E16820232379

Thanks


----------



## Jpmboy

davidm71 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Got this dual rank kit running at 3600mhz and want to fine tune it. Seems HCL Memtest stable. At 1.40 ddr volts and VCCIO 1.18v VCCSA 1.2v (0.2 v higher in HWInfo). Had issues in past with few months ago with Windows failing to complete boot but it went away after reinstall. Anyhow main problem is that 1 out of 25 posts sometimes stalls out. So set eventual DDR volts to 1.385 with 1.42 post volts. This once again caused Windows scrolling wheel boot failure. So back up to 1.42v/1.40v eventual at these timings:
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=330586&thumb=1
> 
> CPU not really overclocked except not really an Apex X but an Apex IX (long story running coffelake 9700k on Z270 board). CPU set at adaptive turbo 1.29 v with Auto for frequency defaults.
> 
> So any advice on keeping it stable would be appreciated.
> 
> Running this kit: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232379?Item=N82E16820232379
> 
> Thanks


oh man, the APEX IX is a great 270 board! I'd help, but those 16GB sticks on that board is well... you got it running decent for 16GB sticks! 
I gave my IX to a nephew with a 5.2GHz 7350 in there. Little 2 core screamer!


----------



## davidm71

Jpmboy said:


> oh man, the APEX IX is a great 270 board! I'd help, but those 16GB sticks on that board is well... you got it running decent for 16GB sticks!
> I gave my IX to a nephew with a 5.2GHz 7350 in there. Little 2 core screamer!


Well got mine bran new last year $60 after rebate. After a coffee lake mod have a 9700K in there. Not looking to overclock the cpu though as not sure if the socket could handle that kind of current so stock works for me. So looking to optimize the memory considering this board only has two ram slots should be more capable to handle memory overclocking. Will have to read past posts here and take notes. Thanks.


----------



## munternet

Have been working on a daily driver of 4600-18-18-18-38-2T and ended up with this.
At first glance the read, write and copy made me think the overclock was a bit lackluster compared to my 4200-17-17-17-36-1T I've been using, but the latency is good and I ran a Cinebench with my highest score yet 
It's running 1/2 hour GSAT stable and I will give it a good workout in BFV and see how it goes but it trained VERY easy and seems to be the natural speed it wants to run at.
I might even try to get the CL a bit lower later on but I have a feeling this is about the comfortable limit for this gear.

Edit: I did have it pushing better read, write and copy figures before on much higher sa and io (as seen in the second pic) but was pushing into diminishing returns territory and not stable.


----------



## wholeeo

Do any of the secondary and tertiary timings scale with voltage? If so which ones? Thanks!


----------



## munternet

wholeeo said:


> Do any of the secondary and tertiary timings scale with voltage? If so which ones? Thanks!


I don't think the timings scale so much with the voltage, or if they do the voltage required is too great.
My instability in the "unstable settings image" was caused by tRDRD_dg=4 and tWRWR_dg=4 which was giving the good read, write and copy speeds, may or may not have stabilized with more sa and io but a little out of my comfort zone. I have consequently abandoned that branch of the overclock.

Edit: Managed 4600-17-18-18-38-2T with no other changes


----------



## Jpmboy

wholeeo said:


> Do any of the secondary and tertiary timings scale with voltage? If so which ones? Thanks!


It depend on the specific timing group and the IC. Generally all scale to a degree - like "timing windows" do such as RAS. If the top three primaries and RTLs are tightened, most 3rds will also come into line automatically.


----------



## wholeeo

munternet said:


> I don't think the timings scale so much with the voltage, or if they do the voltage required is too great.
> My instability in the "unstable settings image" was caused by tRDRD_dg=4 and tWRWR_dg=4 which was giving the good read, write and copy speeds, may or may not have stabilized with more sa and io but a little out of my comfort zone. I have consequently abandoned that branch of the overclock.
> 
> Edit: Managed 4600-17-18-18-38-2T with no other changes





Jpmboy said:


> It depend on the specific timing group and the IC. Generally all scale to a degree - like "timing windows" do such as RAS. If the top three primaries and RTLs are tightened, most 3rds will also come into line automatically.


Thanks for the reply guys.


----------



## Gen.

Hello! I play with the resistances.


----------



## truehighroller1

Ok experts I'm summoning you to me for answers please lol.

My questions are in regards to how my motherboard reports my third and second timings in regards to the naming scheme. I've noticed that my settings name wise are different from what other people seem to talk about so I get confused. See picture attached in regards to what I mean. I need to know how to identify which are which is what it comes down to because asus names them differently.


----------



## Gen.

I got 4 errors, trying to figure it out


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> I got 4 errors, trying to figure it out


A little more ram cooling might fix it?
GSAT in windows is a quick way to centralize voltages and check for errors while setting if you're impatient like me


----------



## Jpmboy

truehighroller1 said:


> Ok experts I'm summoning you to me for answers please lol.
> 
> My questions are in regards to how my motherboard reports my third and second timings in regards to the naming scheme. I've noticed that my settings name wise are different from what other people seem to talk about so I get confused. See picture attached in regards to what I mean. I need to know how to identify which are which is what it comes down to because asus names them differently.


do you have a copy of the AsRock Timing configurator?


----------



## The Pook

went from BIOS 1.8 (12/18) to 4.3 and went from only being stable at 3633 and only 50/50 able to POST at 3733 (and if it did POST it'd BSOD pretty quick) to the same thing happening at 4000 but I'm ~25 minutes into a RAM Test @ 3900 

lost all my saved OC profiles though :sad-smile


----------



## sword fan

Man, is B die really this temp sensitive? I'd been running all of my testing with the front and top covers and filters off of my pc, but as soon as I put everything back on I started getting errors at those same settings. It seems that if I get above 36 C in hwinfo I invariably start getting errors in HCI


----------



## chibi

sword fan said:


> Man, is B die really this temp sensitive? I'd been running all of my testing with the front and top covers and filters off of my pc, but as soon as I put everything back on I started getting errors at those same settings. It seems that if I get above 36 C in hwinfo I invariably start getting errors in HCI



Yes and no. I've had ram temps up to 52 degrees in a poor airflow case and still passed hci memtest. That said, how far are you trying to push the oc? It may be too hard on the ram at your oc and the temp is pushing it over the edge of stability.

I don't recommend 52 degrees that's for sure.


----------



## sword fan

chibi said:


> Yes and no. I've had ram temps up to 52 degrees in a poor airflow case and still passed hci memtest. That said, how far are you trying to push the oc? It may be too hard on the ram at your oc and the temp is pushing it over the edge of stability.
> 
> I don't recommend 52 degrees that's for sure.


Not even that far, IMHO...the last setting I had issues with this is 3600 14-14-14-34 trfc 360, trefi 36000 1.4 vdimm, 1.25 vccio & vccsa (this is on 2 X 8 gskill 3600 15-15-15-35). With all of my covers and filters removed the dimm temp doesn't go above 35-36c and I'll pass hours and hours of every test I throw at it. Replace everything and I get to around 38-38.5c and I get one or two errors within 500-1000% HCI or 1-2hrs occt large. At XMP settings (1.35 vdimm, 1.235 vccio & vccsa) with trfc 630, trefi 14055 I don't get above 33-34c with all covers and filters on and will pass hours and hours of my array of tests.


----------



## The Pook

on ambient my CPU can't go above 5.4. on sub-ambient cooling I can hit 6.0. is my CPU a 5.4 or 6.0 CPU? 

if your RAM gets to 50c and becomes unstable is it too hot or is it just unstable? it's not outside of spec so I'd say it's not stable 

I'm almost 3 hours into a RAM Test with 53c peak DIMM temp and 51c average and I'm fine so far.


----------



## truehighroller1

The Pook said:


> on ambient my CPU can't go above 5.4. on sub-ambient cooling I can hit 6.0. is my CPU a 5.4 or 6.0 CPU?
> 
> if your RAM gets to 50c and becomes unstable is it too hot or is it just unstable? it's not outside of spec so I'd say it's not stable
> 
> I'm almost 3 hours into a RAM Test with 53c peak DIMM temp and 51c average and I'm fine so far.


It's not that it's out of spec it will create a bit flip when reaching higher temperatures is all. Timings change a little from what I can gather.


----------



## munternet

I have been trying a few different memory timings, as you do, and have been trying different tests to check for stability.
Like some of you I'm not very patient so I like to find errors as fast as possible.
Among the tests I have tried are Testmem5 v0.12, HCI memtest and GSAT.

To cut a long story short GSAT is the only test that finds errors in my almost stable memory overclocks, and it finds them quickly.
I can run Testmem5 or HCI all day and not show up errors and GSAT will find them in the first minute or two.

I'm not talking about stress testing, just error exposure.
I tried some stress tests that can produce errors in my system, mainly through overheating, when it's been stable for months. I don't consider these tests suitable for me since my pc doesn't get used in that way.
I ran HCI for over an hour and it came back error free. You can see in the image Testmem5 showed no errors in a 26 minute test and probably never would have BUT GSAT lasted a mere 2 minutes before showing errors 

Face it, you're not going to do a full test every time you make a change to your settings so GSAT in Windows really helps speed things up.

I think it was one of @Jpmboy 's posts that put me onto GSAT :thumb:


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Have been working on a daily driver of 4600-18-18-18-38-2T and ended up with this.
> At first glance the read, write and copy made me think the overclock was a bit lackluster compared to my 4200-17-17-17-36-1T I've been using, but the latency is good and I ran a Cinebench with my highest score yet
> It's running 1/2 hour GSAT stable and I will give it a good workout in BFV and see how it goes but it trained VERY easy and seems to be the natural speed it wants to run at.
> I might even try to get the CL a bit lower later on but I have a feeling this is about the comfortable limit for this gear.
> 
> Edit: I did have it pushing better read, write and copy figures before on much higher sa and io (as seen in the second pic) but was pushing into diminishing returns territory and not stable.


For 2-DIMM boards, 1.35V IO is preferred according to ASUS, otherwise will cause instability. SA 1.6V should be OK for daily use.

Check:


----------



## mouacyk

^^ 1.6V SA for daily use lolok


----------



## BLUuuE

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For 2-DIMM boards, 1.35V IO is preferred according to ASUS, otherwise will cause instability. SA 1.6V should be OK for daily use.
> 
> Check: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grpQysJfs-o


The guy suggests 1.5v VCCSA but only 1.5v DRAM for daily?

I've heard of a few people who have run 1.6v DRAM daily on B-die for a year without any issues. I'd be wary of running above 1.35v VCCSA daily let alone 1.5v.


----------



## coccosoids

Can someone tell why sometimes when I try to go with the rated frequency and timings on my ram kits and I log into windows it only recognizes 3x16GB and not the full 4x16GB?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

BLUuuE said:


> The guy suggests 1.5v VCCSA but only 1.5v DRAM for daily?
> 
> I've heard of a few people who have run 1.6v DRAM daily on B-die for a year without any issues. I'd be wary of running above 1.35v VCCSA daily let alone 1.5v.


Since only b-die are highly voltage-sensitive compared to Micron or Hynix, 1.6V should be the b-die case. B-dies are also temperature-sensitive, once the temperature goes higher than 55℃, it will be unstable. 1.6V DRAM might pass MT, but when you are playing games, GPU produces extra heat, which heats DRAM. My daily running is 1.5v 4600 17-17-17-35. After 3hrs of PUBG, the DRAM is already 51℃. 1.6V should be a little high for daily if you are a GPU heavy user.

VCCSA is applied to the CPU IMC. 4600C17 needs 1.4V SA to pass 12hrs MT and 4800 17-19-19-36 needs 1.65V in my case. Since the CPU is not overheating (>95℃), 1.65V SA should still be fine. Besides, you can have the Intel PTPP for only 20 bucks.


----------



## sword fan

coccosoids said:


> Can someone tell why sometimes when I try to go with the rated frequency and timings on my ram kits and I log into windows it only recognizes 3x16GB and not the full 4x16GB?


Possible it's not training properly and dropping a dimm? Depending on your setup (mobo, cpu imc) sometimes even rated xmp settings need a tiny bit of tweaking to get fully stable. I'm certainly not an expert, only a layman, though.


----------



## Jpmboy

BLUuuE said:


> The guy suggests 1.5v VCCSA but only 1.5v DRAM for daily?
> 
> I've heard of a few people who have run 1.6v DRAM daily on B-die for a year without any issues. *I'd be wary of running above 1.35v VCCSA daily let alone 1.5v.*


^^ this


coccosoids said:


> Can someone tell why sometimes when I try to go with the rated frequency and timings on my ram kits and I log into windows it only recognizes 3x16GB and not the full 4x16GB?


if any stick fails the ram component of the power-on-self-test (POST) it will drop the failed stick(s) (absent any specific changes in bios). If you are saying "rated freq" meaning XMP... XMP is an overclock on the cpu IMC, IO and core(s). Bump the voltage for each.


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Since only b-die are highly voltage-sensitive compared to Micron or Hynix, 1.6V should be the b-die case. B-dies are also temperature-sensitive, once the temperature goes higher than 55℃, it will be unstable. 1.6V DRAM might pass MT, but when you are playing games, GPU produces extra heat, which heats DRAM. My daily running is 1.5v 4600 17-17-17-35. After 3hrs of PUBG, the DRAM is already 51℃. 1.6V should be a little high for daily if you are a GPU heavy user.
> 
> VCCSA is applied to the CPU IMC. 4600C17 needs 1.4V SA to pass 12hrs MT and 4800 17-19-19-36 needs 1.65V in my case. Since the CPU is not overheating (>95℃), 1.65V SA should still be fine. Besides, you can have the Intel PTPP for only 20 bucks.


If you are running 1.5 or 1.65V VCCSA, please post back here with some long-term data. Good experiment waaay outside the IMC's AOR. :thumb:


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

coccosoids said:


> Can someone tell why sometimes when I try to go with the rated frequency and timings on my ram kits and I log into windows it only recognizes 3x16GB and not the full 4x16GB?


Check the contact between the CPU and the socket. You can loose the CPU heatsink and retry.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

> If you are running 1.5 or 1.65V VCCSA, please post back here with some long-term data. Good experiment waaay outside the IMC's AOR. :thumb:


My current rig will pass MT on 1.65V SA but BSOD when playing games with AVX due to high CPU temp, so now it is at 1.4V SA and 1.35V IO. My former rig was 4300C17 8Gx4 1.52V (RAM fans attached), running at 1.45V IO and 1.45V SA for a half year with no problem. No degradation.

As replied by the ROG manager in the video I posted, it is OK that IO and SA do not exceed 1.5V at the same time. IMO when you pass 12hrs MT and the temperature is good when stressing both AVX and mem, it should be fine.


----------



## Jpmboy

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> My current rig will pass MT on 1.65V SA but BSOD when playing games with AVX due to high CPU temp, so now it is at 1.4V SA and 1.35V IO. My former rig was 4300C17 8Gx4 1.52V (RAM fans attached), running at 1.45V IO and 1.45V SA for a half year with no problem. *No degradation.*
> 
> As replied by the ROG manager in the video I posted, it is OK that IO and SA do not exceed 1.5V at the same time. IMO when you pass 12hrs MT and the temperature is good when stressing both AVX and mem, it should be fine.


Not sure how you determined whether there was any "effect". But thanks for the info. 18months. I've had 64GB at 1.45V vDimm, but only need a low vsa on that platform - 3+ years. One 1151 platform here (8086K. Apex X) has been at 1.5V vdimm and 1.275V VSa for well... since the platform launched (ram at 4500 c16). The "limit" on Vdimm put out by ram manufacturers is set by Intel since VDimm has a direct effect on the CPU IMC and IO. VSA basically aligns signals in relation to the Vdimm. The dram itself can take much higher voltage (b-die handles 2.0V without breaking a sweat... the cpu is impacted more). So, just as an FYI, the VDimm limit spec on each platform is set by the cpu generation (AMD or INtel). Keep the updates coming! 
Yeah, I know the guy in the video...


----------



## hardwarelimits

Jpmboy said:


> Not sure how you determined whether there was any "effect". But thanks for the info. 18months. I've had 64GB at 1.45V vDimm, but only need a low vsa on that platform - 3+ years. One 1151 platform here (8086K. Apex X) has been at 1.5V vdimm and 1.275V VSa for well... since the platform launched (ram at 4500 c16). The "limit" on Vdimm put out by ram manufacturers is set by Intel since VDimm has a direct effect on the CPU IMC and IO. VSA basically aligns signals in relation to the Vdimm. The dram itself can take much higher voltage (b-die handles 2.0V without breaking a sweat... the cpu is impacted more). So, just as an FYI, the VDimm limit spec on each platform is set by the cpu generation (AMD or INtel). Keep the updates coming!
> Yeah, I know the guy in the video...


Thanks for this info. I was wondering if 1.536 Vdim voltage on 4x8 b-die on Ryzen was safe!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Jpmboy said:


> Not sure how you determined whether there was any "effect". But thanks for the info. 18months. I've had 64GB at 1.45V vDimm, but only need a low vsa on that platform - 3+ years. One 1151 platform here (8086K. Apex X) has been at 1.5V vdimm and 1.275V VSa for well... since the platform launched (ram at 4500 c16). The "limit" on Vdimm put out by ram manufacturers is set by Intel since VDimm has a direct effect on the CPU IMC and IO. VSA basically aligns signals in relation to the Vdimm. The dram itself can take much higher voltage (b-die handles 2.0V without breaking a sweat... the cpu is impacted more). So, just as an FYI, the VDimm limit spec on each platform is set by the cpu generation (AMD or INtel). Keep the updates coming!
> Yeah, I know the guy in the video...


That's simple. When I first set the rig, 4500 18-18-18-36 1.55V was the limit for 8Gx4 to POST. I kept trying this under the same DIMMs and IO/SA, if it can POST, then the IMC should still be fine. I have seen some random cases, that after running a superPi 4133C12 under 2V, the ability of these sticks decreased drastically. That might also vary between dies to bear high volt.


----------



## Jpmboy

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That's simple. When I first set the rig, 4500 18-18-18-36 1.55V was the limit for 8Gx4 to POST. I kept trying this under the same DIMMs and IO/SA, if it can POST, then the IMC should still be fine. I have seen some random cases, that after running a superPi 4133C12 under 2V, *the ability of these sticks decreased drastically. *That might also vary between dies to bear high volt.


Sure - sticks can fail. Where ever you saw that info would have to verify the ram degrade on a different CPU and board. If that was done - cool. I have several DDR4 kits that have been at 1.9 to 2.0V many times over years. Only one seems to have lost it's fast ball, but it saw 2.5V during a limit test. :thumb:


----------



## Gen.

Here's what happened on the first module of 4 (4 DIMMs). 4400 17-17 1 DIMM (RTL + 1.42V DONE).


----------



## Lalka228

Take current top-1 on dual channel system in Aida memory read. Motherboard msi z390i

It was preety hard

https://hwbot.org/submission/4376074_lalka228_aida64___memory_read_ddr4_sdram_74317_mbs


----------



## munternet

Lalka228 said:


> Take current top-1 on dual channel system in Aida memory read. Motherboard msi z390i
> 
> It was preety hard
> 
> https://hwbot.org/submission/4376074_lalka228_aida64___memory_read_ddr4_sdram_74317_mbs


Nice  :thumb:


----------



## munternet

Tested and stable
Small drop in ram frequency with similar Aida64 memory and cache score, large drop in vccio and vccsa
Left the Vdimm where it was to keep it stable when the ambient gets higher again.
5.2GHz
4133-16-16-16-34-1T
Cache 4900
Vcore 1.39 set LLC5 2AVX offset
Vdimm 1.44
VCCIO 1.09375
VCCSA 1.150

This is my new daily driver and seems to be the most efficient out of all the overclocks I've tried.
Tested stable in BFV also
https://valid.x86.fr/j35jm7


----------



## mouacyk

munternet said:


> Tested and stable
> Small drop in ram frequency with similar Aida64 memory and cache score, large drop in vccio and vccsa
> Left the Vdimm where it was to keep it stable when the ambient gets higher again.
> 5.2GHz
> 4133-16-16-16-34-1T
> Cache 4900
> Vcore 1.39 set LLC5 2AVX offset
> Vdimm 1.40
> VCCIO 1.09
> VCCSA 1.15
> 
> This is my new daily driver and seems to be the most efficient out of all the overclocks I've tried.
> Tested stable in BFV also
> https://valid.x86.fr/j35jm7


That is definitely worthy, for the low voltages.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Tested and stable
> Small drop in ram frequency with similar Aida64 memory and cache score, large drop in vccio and vccsa
> Left the Vdimm where it was to keep it stable when the ambient gets higher again.
> 5.2GHz
> 4133-16-16-16-34-1T
> Cache 4900
> Vcore 1.39 set LLC5 2AVX offset
> Vdimm 1.44
> VCCIO 1.09375
> VCCSA 1.150
> 
> This is my new daily driver and seems to be the most efficient out of all the overclocks I've tried.
> Tested stable in BFV also
> https://valid.x86.fr/j35jm7


Now that's ram tuning! :thumb:


----------



## Gen.

@munternet Sorry, but you have the wrong training, WR, CKE, WTR_L (WRRD_sg) and RFC can be lower + multiple of 8. It is also better to set CWL = CL and RDWR = 10
WR=16
RTP=8
WRPRE=36
RDPRE=8
WTR_L=8
WRRD_sg=30
WRRD_dg=26
CWL=16
RDWR_sg & _dg=10
RFC=320 and lower.
CKE=8


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> @munternet Sorry, but you have the wrong training, WR, CKE, WTR_L (WRRD_sg) and RFC can be lower + multiple of 8. It is also better to set CWL = CL and RDWR = 10
> WR=16
> RTP=8
> WRPRE=36
> RDPRE=8
> WTR_L=8
> WRRD_sg=30
> WRRD_dg=26
> CWL=16
> RDWR_sg & _dg=10
> RFC=320 and lower.
> CKE=8


Wrong? They seem to work fine.
Let's assume none of the changes you recommend would require voltage changes for the same stability - right? I see the post as showing very low VSA and VCCIO for a decent frequency and efficiency... well AID64 efficiency anyway.


----------



## Intrud3r

Read some stuff about 3900 vs 4000 rtl / iol.

Thought I'ld let go of my 4000, and give 3900 a try.

Ran karhu till 500% no probs ... will do a proper test tonight or tomorrow.

(just ... can't ... break ... <40)


----------



## Gen.

Jpmboy said:


> Wrong? They seem to work fine.
> Let's assume none of the changes you recommend would require voltage changes for the same stability - right? I see the post as showing very low VSA and VCCIO for a decent frequency and efficiency... well AID64 efficiency anyway.


Please using @extreme1.cfg anta777. Perhaps your VCCIO and VCCSA are too low and will have to try 1.15-1.20V.
Correct RTL = sum of IO-L + IO-L Offset = <28. With IO-L and IO-L Offset equal to 13 and 21, you can pass all the tests, respectively, but when setting up RTL, no, and then twist the timings again. Is it necessary? You decide.
WR=8ns (2000*WR(tact)/dram frequency).
RTP=WR/2
WTR_L=WR/2 or WR/2-2.
Try rrd_l = 4

Voltage will only be affected RFC.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> @munternet Sorry, but you have the wrong training, WR, CKE, WTR_L (WRRD_sg) and RFC can be lower + multiple of 8. It is also better to set CWL = CL and RDWR = 10
> WR=16
> RTP=8
> WRPRE=36
> RDPRE=8
> WTR_L=8
> WRRD_sg=30
> WRRD_dg=26
> CWL=16
> RDWR_sg & _dg=10
> RFC=320 and lower.
> CKE=8


Thanks for the advice.
I gave the suggested settings a go but my system locked up and I had to use the clear cmos button on the back as all other recovery attempts were met with either error 04 or 71 and even the safeboot button wouldn't work or holding down the start button on the front to enter safeboot.
Maybe I didn't input the settings correctly, I don't know but I'm pretty happy with my current overclock and will leave it for now


----------



## truehighroller1

Jpmboy said:


> do you have a copy of the AsRock Timing configurator?


Sorry bub was side tracked by trolls for awhile there and, working like 16 hours a day different shifts for three days. I apologize for letting them get under my skin but, I hate trolls with a passion. They're such a waste of oxygen.

Okay where to start. Yes I do but even my timing naming schemes are different in there. I found a post that went into some of the memory timings for Sky Lake X as that seems to be what the difference is here that I'm getting confused by is the difference in architectures more then anything and the relation between the old ones and the sky lake x ones but, still I haven't ran across anything to detailed in regards to covering everything touchable settings wise. I have noticed the following though and wanted to let it sink in for a week or so before responding and me end up being wrong. 

The issue with my memory rtl's at 4000MHz switching on me just barely enough to cause minor instability sometimes when cold booting has been resolved but in a weird but perhaps explainable way. I went through and flashed all of the BIOS available as of right now for this board the other weekend, starting from the release BIOS and noticed some stuff in regards to memory stability and was poking around a little. The release BIOS I believe number 0604 wouldn't boot at all 4000MHz or any other speeds until you hit 3600Mhz then everything was hunky dory. I went ahead and captured the settings that the rtl's and tertiary timings loaded to on that BIOS for 3600MHz with the auto settings on. Then I went onto loading BIOS 0802 and same thing, nothing above 3600 and the RTLs and tertiary timings were identical. I then proceeded to move onto the next BIOS inline beta BIOS 1002 and bOOm 4000MHz started booting on that bios. Mind you I was using the flashback function throughout all of this so I had a new fresh BIOS install every time. 

I noticed that the rtl's went a little wonky again but that with the auto settings enabled my tertiary timings also got all jacked up looking too compared to the 3600MHz auto settings. They cranked themselves all the way up to the max on most of the timings. I went ahead and set the tertiary timings touching nothing else, to what 3600MHz loads them at and bam, my RTLs have been locked correctly at 59-61-59-61-8-8-8-8-18-18-18-18 ever since and stable as a rock.

I also came across information in regards to SkylakeX not needing VSSCA voltage being touched setting wise as sky lake x doesn't use it anyway because it handles that internally which I have no clue honestly how I missed that this whole time after looking into memory timing information for about a month now every where possible.. 

Anyway here's my memory timings as of right now in memtweakit and asrock's configurator.

I still have no clue what some of these do and what their relationships are to each other and how I should properly adjust them but, feel like if I knew I could get better results still. If I move my tfaw down any more then what I have it right now I can only boot three sticks.. I have everything set as tight as I think I can get it but I haven't had time to play with anything else yet honestly in the last week or two. Attached is my aida 64 results which seem to be about as close to the right percentage wise to 90% to 95% in regards to memory bandwidth based on frequency / cas levels etc.. I had about 98% at one point but the copy was lower then where it is now..


----------



## Intrud3r

16-21-21 didn't wanna work, failed at 550+ %.

Went back to 16-22-22 @3900, just finished 5000%+ ... Should be good for now.


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> Please using @extreme1.cfg anta777. Perhaps your VCCIO and VCCSA are too low and will have to try 1.15-1.20V.
> Correct RTL = sum of IO-L + IO-L Offset = <28. With IO-L and IO-L Offset equal to 13 and 21, you can pass all the tests, respectively, but when setting up RTL, no, and then twist the timings again. Is it necessary? You decide.
> WR=8ns (2000*WR(tact)/dram frequency).
> RTP=WR/2
> WTR_L=WR/2 or WR/2-2.
> Try rrd_l = 4
> 
> *Voltage will only be affected RFC*.


^^ sorry bud, but voltage (and resulting signal alignment) affects a lot more than just RFC.
IOL offsets are just that, offsets. The effective RTLs (RTLs are measured during POST and the ability to lower them simply depends on the margins) are not changed. 
Not sure what the rest of your post actually means.


----------



## Zemach

Hiikeri said:


> Nice job.
> Cpu still alive? VccIO voltage shouldnt never ever be higher than Vcore!
> 
> Vccio voltage are made from Vcore voltage, and if its higher than Vcore its a bad thing for IMC/CPU (MSI engineer-overclocker told that on MSI Z390 overclocking video guide).


My CPU is still working well. I can't add a vcore because I want the CPU to cool down, otherwise it can't be tested at 5000 Cl18 cache 5000.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Zemach said:


> My CPU is still working well. I can't add a vcore because I want the CPU to cool down, otherwise it can't be tested at 5000 Cl18 cache 5000.


That's a really low volt for mem clock over 4900MHz to pass MT! Nicely done. My 9900K barely holds 4800C17 under 1.65V SA and for 5000C18 it needs 1.7V SA to POST.


----------



## bxcounter

I'm proud of this overclock, even though it's still work in progress. It passed 2h GSAT (and no failed workers in various prime95 ftt sizes). Not fully optimized: tCKE, tRAS, tWTR_L/S, RTL-s. Cpu and cache are dialed lower because this will be sff build. And for the sake of science i'll run this kit at that voltage and report back when it dies  Sticks (Team T-Force 3200 14-14-14-31) are cooled by 3x Noctua NF-A4X20 FLX.


----------



## Imprezzion

bxcounter said:


> I'm proud of this overclock, even though it's still work in progress. It passed 2h GSAT (and no failed workers in various prime95 ftt sizes). Not fully optimized: tCKE, tRAS, tWTR_L/S, RTL-s. Cpu and cache are dialed lower because this will be sff build. And for the sake of science i'll run this kit at that voltage and report back when it dies  Sticks (Team T-Force 3200 14-14-14-31) are cooled by 3x Noctua NF-A4X20 FLX.


Nice results! I run 1.554v on my B-Die Vengeance RGB's with stock heatsinks and a 140mm above them. We'll see which one of our sets dies first hehe.

Mine run in the mid to high 40c range in games or benches.

Mine's a lot worse bin, 3600CL16 chips and I run 4200 16-17-17-35 as that's all they have in them under 1.6v lol.


----------



## Chobbit

Hey guys,

So with your help in the past I got my 3200 CL14 Dimms stable to 4000 CL16 and all the voltages where within reason but in no way comfortable DRAM 1.43 / VCCIO: 1.35 / VCCSA: 1.35 and reached temps of 50 degC.

I decided to go another route with the latencies, so with the standard 3200MHz I can drop it to CL13 at DRAM 1.32 / VCCIO: 1.15 / VCCSA: 1.20 and it runs 10 degC cooler (max 40 degC).

According to RAM calculators:
4000CL16 = 8ns
3200CL13 = 8.125ns

I'm sure I could live with that extra 0.125ns loss for those temp and volt drops, but I suppose my questions are:

1. Which of those two are better for Video rendering & operations?
2. Which is better for gaming?
3. Is there a noticeable difference to worry?


Cheers
Michael


----------



## HREN

Chobbit said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So with your help in the past I got my 3200 CL14 Dimms stable to 4000 CL16 and all the voltages where within reason but in no way comfortable DRAM 1.43 / VCCIO: 1.35 / VCCSA: 1.35 and reached temps of 50 degC.
> 
> I decided to go another route with the latencies, so with the standard 3200MHz I can drop it to CL13 at DRAM 1.32 / VCCIO: 1.15 / VCCSA: 1.20 and it runs 10 degC cooler (max 40 degC).
> 
> According to RAM calculators:
> 4000CL16 = 8ns
> 3200CL13 = 8.125ns
> 
> I'm sure I could live with that extra 0.125ns loss for those temp and volt drops, but I suppose my questions are:
> 
> 1. Which of those two are better for Video rendering & operations?
> 2. Which is better for gaming?
> 3. Is there a noticeable difference to worry?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Michael


Hi.
1. and 2. - The 4000 is better. In games it'll be about 3-5% fps. 1080p
3. don't worry)


----------



## Jpmboy

Chobbit said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So with your help in the past I got my 3200 CL14 Dimms stable to 4000 CL16 and all the voltages where within reason but in no way comfortable DRAM 1.43 / VCCIO: 1.35 / VCCSA: 1.35 and reached temps of 50 degC.
> 
> I decided to go another route with the latencies, so with the standard 3200MHz I can drop it to CL13 at DRAM 1.32 / VCCIO: 1.15 / VCCSA: 1.20 and it runs 10 degC cooler (max 40 degC).
> 
> According to RAM calculators:
> 4000CL16 = 8ns
> 3200CL13 = 8.125ns
> 
> I'm sure I could live with that extra 0.125ns loss for those temp and volt drops, but I suppose my questions are:
> 
> 1. Which of those two are better for Video rendering & operations?
> 2. Which is better for gaming?
> 3. Is there a noticeable difference to worry?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Michael


on a dual channel system, always shoot for low latency, the 8 and 8.125ns values you have there are really for the first bit. 64 bit OSs narrow that difference even further. The bandwidth effect is nominal basically because dual chanel is choked anyway. Gaming... latency. Compute/Render - the difference between 50 or 60K Copy-write is nominal (considering quad channel runs easily over 100K).


----------



## Chobbit

HREN said:


> Hi.
> 1. and 2. - The 4000 is better. In games it'll be about 3-5% fps. 1080p
> 3. don't worry)





Jpmboy said:


> on a dual channel system, always shoot for low latency, the 8 and 8.125ns values you have there are really for the first bit. 64 bit OSs narrow that difference even further. The bandwidth effect is nominal basically because dual chanel is choked anyway. Gaming... latency. Compute/Render - the difference between 50 or 60K Copy-write is nominal (considering quad channel runs easily over 100K).


Thanks guys really appreciate the info and advice, I'm going to keep the 3200CL13 and the lower temps & longer life that brings and just enjoy it as this system is in no way slow even compared to my 9960x system @4.6 & 3200CL16 for most tasks.


----------



## Carillo

Hi guys. Have any of you experienced CPU IMC degradation as a result of too high SA / IO with 9900k or other coffelake CPUs? If you have, please share. im currently running 1.4 IO / 1.5 SA


----------



## SunnyStefan

Carillo said:


> Hi guys. Have any of you experienced CPU IMC degradation as a result of too high SA / IO with 9900k or other coffelake CPUs? If you have, please share. im currently running 1.4 IO / 1.5 SA


I have not, but I'm counting on you to update us if you notice anything funky with your system . How long have you been running your setup with those voltage settings?


----------



## Carillo

SunnyStefan said:


> I have not, but I'm counting on you to update us if you notice anything funky with your system . How long have you been running your setup with those voltage settings?


Sure will, lol  Been running it like this for two weeks now


----------



## SunnyStefan

Carillo said:


> Sure will, lol  Been running it like this for two weeks now


That latency is insaneeeeee!


----------



## Jpmboy

Carillo said:


> Hi guys. Have any of you experienced CPU IMC degradation as a result of too high SA / IO with 9900k or other coffelake CPUs? If you have, please share. im currently running 1.4 IO / 1.5 SA


any stability data? If I'm reading that board right, the IOLs stepped?


----------



## Falkentyne

Chobbit said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So with your help in the past I got my 3200 CL14 Dimms stable to 4000 CL16 and all the voltages where within reason but in no way comfortable DRAM 1.43 / VCCIO: 1.35 / VCCSA: 1.35 and reached temps of 50 degC.
> 
> I decided to go another route with the latencies, so with the standard 3200MHz I can drop it to CL13 at DRAM 1.32 / VCCIO: 1.15 / VCCSA: 1.20 and it runs 10 degC cooler (max 40 degC).
> 
> According to RAM calculators:
> 4000CL16 = 8ns
> 3200CL13 = 8.125ns
> 
> I'm sure I could live with that extra 0.125ns loss for those temp and volt drops, but I suppose my questions are:
> 
> 1. Which of those two are better for Video rendering & operations?
> 2. Which is better for gaming?
> 3. Is there a noticeable difference to worry?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Michael


Can you post your Asrock timing configurator of your Cas 13 3200 timings and your Dram/IO/SA voltages you used?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reachthesky said:


> I have a T-Top board. After binning a kit of 4 kits from best stick to worst stick, which slots do I put better sticks in and which slots do I put the worst sticks in? Do the better sticks go closer to the chip or farther away?


Best 1&3. Worst 2&4.


----------



## Carillo

Jpmboy said:


> any stability data? If I'm reading that board right, the IOLs stepped?


Just some quick and dirty testing, good enough for my use  I find it hard to do anything manually regarding RTL/IOL on this motherboard, so the motherboard have set the RTL/IOL it self. Round Trip Latency is enabled.But yes, you are reading correct value Patriot Viper 4400 cl19 sticks with heat spreader removed used.

Did also manage to post 5000 cl18.18.18.36 _)


----------



## Judah R

Hi. First time trying to overclock ram, and I have some questions and wouldn't mind any advice.
I bought 2 kits of Patriot Viper 4400 Ram

I was unable to get either of the 2 XMP profiles to work, 4400 never booted and 4266 booted a couple of times but can go more then 5 minutes in a stress test. I was able to change to 4133 and was stable, I then began to lower the timings. I just tried timing I saw on asus site for a QVL ram kit that did 4133 @ 17 17 17 37, so I tried that... maybe I can lower even more? 

SA and IMC voltage set to auto put them as high as 1.42v and 1.46v. I am so far able to set SA and IMC voltage to 1.375 in bios and be stable, but it does make me a bit nervous. I have no idea what the other ram timings are, I watch Buildzoids video on this Ram and its way over my head. I did 1 hour of that RamTest I got off this site and a complete 4+ hour run on memtest.

I included a picture of my old G.Skill 3200mhz 32gb kit that I watercooled, the new ram really didn't seem to get hot.
I have new EK Nickel ram watercooling kit coming this week to cool the Patriot Ram

Judah R--8700K 5.1 Ghz @ 1.42v
Asus Rog Maximus X Formula

Patriot Viper Memory
4133 Mhz @ 17-17-17-37-2T @ 1.45v

VCCSA 
Bios Set 1.375

1.392v ~ 1.400v in windows

CPU VCCIO/IMC 
Bios Set 1.375

1.416v ~ 1.432v in windows


----------



## Kimir

Been a while since I've seen watercooled RAM!


----------



## Lalka228

Carillo said:


> Hi guys. Have any of you experienced CPU IMC degradation as a result of too high SA / IO with 9900k or other coffelake CPUs? If you have, please share. im currently running 1.4 IO / 1.5 SA


of course its a horror stories, if a degradation would be true, manufacturers would fix "high" voltages. Can you imagine that a man buy a 4400 xmp memory, using it in xmp mode with incredible io/sa during the year (or 1,5 year).... and his processor will break. He goes for warranty, returns his money and became a happy man with 1-1,5 year free rent :thumb:

For example im currently using 4600 17-17 ram for 24/7 with 1.3 IO and 1.42 SA. Lets make an experiment. This f**king horrors with no authoritative research makes me embittered


----------



## Carillo

Judah R said:


> Hi. First time trying to overclock ram, and I have some questions and wouldn't mind any advice.
> I bought 2 kits of Patriot Viper 4400 Ram
> 
> I was unable to get either of the 2 XMP profiles to work, 4400 never booted and 4266 booted a couple of times but can go more then 5 minutes in a stress test. I was able to change to 4133 and was stable, I then began to lower the timings. I just tried timing I saw on asus site for a QVL ram kit that did 4133 @ 17 17 17 37, so I tried that... maybe I can lower even more?
> 
> SA and IMC voltage set to auto put them as high as 1.42v and 1.46v. I am so far able to set SA and IMC voltage to 1.375 in bios and be stable, but it does make me a bit nervous. I have no idea what the other ram timings are, I watch Buildzoids video on this Ram and its way over my head. I did 1 hour of that RamTest I got off this site and a complete 4+ hour run on memtest.
> 
> I included a picture of my old G.Skill 3200mhz 32gb kit that I watercooled, the new ram really didn't seem to get hot.
> I have new EK Nickel ram watercooling kit coming this week to cool the Patriot Ram
> 
> Judah R--8700K 5.1 Ghz @ 1.42v
> Asus Rog Maximus X Formula
> 
> Patriot Viper Memory
> 4133 Mhz @ 17-17-17-37-2T @ 1.45v
> 
> VCCSA
> Bios Set 1.375
> 
> 1.392v ~ 1.400v in windows
> 
> CPU VCCIO/IMC
> Bios Set 1.375
> 
> 1.416v ~ 1.432v in windows


If you have a weak IMC, you can try this. Stable with Patriot Viper 4400 c19 @ 1,55v


----------



## Carillo

Lalka228 said:


> of course its a horror stories, if a degradation would be true, manufacturers would fix "high" voltages. Can you imagine that a man buy a 4400 xmp memory, using it in xmp mode with incredible io/sa during the year (or 1,5 year).... and his processor will break. He goes for warranty, returns his money and became a happy man with 1-1,5 year free rent :thumb:
> 
> For example im currently using 4600 17-17 ram for 24/7 with 1.3 IO and 1.42 SA. Lets make an experiment. This f**king horrors with no authoritative research makes me embittered


Totally agree with you regarding horror stories, but the fact is Intel do not allow XMP profiles, and there is a reason for that. The main reason I ask here is because I am looking for experiences around the topic that can actually be documented (to the extent possible), rather than the meaning of everyone who is supposed to think something about everything without any special background or experience. I see a lot of people writing: " Im not comfortable with IO/SA higher than 1,10/1,15 ? What is that feeling based on ? Where do these people find the documentation that can support the logic of these statements? I ask because I can't find anything.... 10900k is hopefully not far away, so if mine is actually degrades during this period,its not a big deal and I WILL document it here


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm not running that high for now but still, 1.30v SA and 1.25v SA is above what you'd generally call "safe".

I am running into some heat issues with my RAM though. I've been running a few months on 4200-16-17-17-35-280-2T 1.55v and it's stable in any test you can throw at it, but only if I can keep the DIMM's under ~45-48c. If I set my case fans and such to a nice and quiet speed the RAM airflow isn't very good and they go up to low 50's and will randomly crash games at that point.

I might just run a bit louder fan profile or downclock the RAM slightly to 4000 with the same timings as they do that just fine on something like 1.4-1.42v ish. Might even drop the 9900K from 5.1/4.8 to 5.0/4.7 as that saves me a full 0.08v and loads of temperature..


----------



## Carillo

Imprezzion said:


> I'm not running that high for now but still, 1.30v SA and 1.25v SA is above what you'd generally call "safe".
> 
> I am running into some heat issues with my RAM though. I've been running a few months on 4200-16-17-17-35-280-2T 1.55v and it's stable in any test you can throw at it, but only if I can keep the DIMM's under ~45-48c. If I set my case fans and such to a nice and quiet speed the RAM airflow isn't very good and they go up to low 50's and will randomly crash games at that point.
> 
> I might just run a bit louder fan profile or downclock the RAM slightly to 4000 with the same timings as they do that just fine on something like 1.4-1.42v ish. Might even drop the 9900K from 5.1/4.8 to 5.0/4.7 as that saves me a full 0.08v and loads of temperature..


This is exactly what im talking about... generally safe ? From what do you base that statement ? Have someone documented that running over those values actually damages the IMC ? If so, under what conditions ? 
Please elaborate  When it comes to stability using 1,5vdimm or higher, i usually use a 120mm fan running quite high speeds blowing directly at the sticks. I also have removed the heat spreder since the Viper has a cheap ass heat spreder insulating more than cooling the chips.. B.dies dont like the 50´s  I try keeping them under 42-43 degree celsius


----------



## Lalka228

Carillo said:


> Totally agree with you regarding horror stories, but the fact is Intel do not allow XMP profiles, and there is a reason for that. The main reason I ask here is because I am looking for experiences around the topic that can actually be documented (to the extent possible), rather than the meaning of everyone who is supposed to think something about everything without any special background or experience. I see a lot of people writing: " Im not comfortable with IO/SA higher than 1,10/1,15 ? What is that feeling based on ? Where do these people find the documentation that can support the logic of these statements? I ask because I can't find anything.... 10900k is hopefully not far away, so if mine is actually degrades during this period,its not a big deal and I WILL document it here


Yeah it seems difficulity. Because a research should include different values of voltages to identify a step when degrodation begins. I havent seen no one.


----------



## Jpmboy

Lalka228 said:


> Yeah it seems difficulity. Because a research should include different values of voltages to identify a step when degrodation begins. I havent seen no one.


All of Intel's "acceptable operating ranges" are stated in the Product Spec Sheet (PDF from Intel). These numbers have nothing to do with what overclockers call acceptable voltages. The only data for that comes from the community. So... experiment away and post back with what you find over time. Benchmarking voltages are meaningless for 24/7. eg. Flashbulb vs Lightbulb


----------



## hardwarelimits

Imprezzion said:


> I might just run a bit louder fan profile or downclock the RAM slightly to 4000 with the same timings as they do that just fine on something like 1.4-1.42v ish. Might even drop the 9900K from 5.1/4.8 to 5.0/4.7 as that saves me a full 0.08v and loads of temperature..


 Why don't you use any fan you have lying around and put it horizontal above the ram like this 



I took this pic from some user here, cant find mine


----------



## Imprezzion

Carillo said:


> This is exactly what im talking about... generally safe ? From what do you base that statement ? Have someone documented that running over those values actually damages the IMC ? If so, under what conditions ?
> Please elaborate  When it comes to stability using 1,5vdimm or higher, i usually use a 120mm fan running quite high speeds blowing directly at the sticks. I also have removed the heat spreder since the Viper has a cheap ass heat spreder insulating more than cooling the chips.. B.dies dont like the 50´s  I try keeping them under 42-43 degree celsius


The Vengeance heatspreaders do their work pretty well. I have a 140mm pointed at them but it's pretty close to my glass sidepanel so starts to make a irritating noise above ~800RPM lol. I run the fan at 650 RPM and it sees 50's. If I run ~1100 RPM they stay nicely under 45c and are perfectly stable.

I based those safe values at the old Sandy/Ivy days in which 1.3v or higher was proven to be dangerous in some cases. No idea how that translates to the newer generations but I always kept that in the back of my mind. My 3770K wasn't happy with 1.4v IO/SA after 4 years. It will no longer do DDR3-2666 at all, barely 2133Mhz now.


----------



## Zemach

Patriot Viper [email protected] Cl 15 15 15 35 1.540v Io 1.15v sa 1.2v


----------



## eminded1

Zemach said:


> Patriot Viper [email protected] Cl 15 15 15 35 1.540v Io 1.15v sa 1.2v


NICE OC, I have the same 2 kits and im running 4x8gb on my Z390 Hero for a total of 32gb

I got them at 4133mhz 16 16 16 33 @ 1.48 , 1.25 IO, 1.26 SA .95 DMI 1.05 Core PLL

I cant boot past 4133 no matter what settings I try. must just be the luck of the draw or im maxing out the memory lanes inside the motherboard.. ill try c15 at a higher voltage and post back with results.


----------



## Judah R

Zemach said:


> Patriot Viper [email protected] Cl 15 15 15 35 1.540v Io 1.15v sa 1.2v


I am at 4133 17-17-17-37 stable so far..

I got the Asrock timing configurator, does it do anything besides just show timings? 
I have no idea what these timing are.. should I try to copy them in my bios?
I also can't really get it to post past 4133.... should I try to work on timing? like 16-16-16-36 next ? Then 15-15-15-35 ?
I guess I could up the ram voltage from 1.45 in bios.... up to 1.50


----------



## eminded1

Judah R said:


> I am at 4133 17-17-17-37 stable so far..
> 
> I got the Asrock timing configurator, does it do anything besides just show timings?
> I have no idea what these timing are.. should I try to copy them in my bios?
> I also can't really get it to post past 4133.... should I try to work on timing? like 16-16-16-36 next ? Then 15-15-15-35 ?
> I guess I could up the ram voltage from 1.45 in bios.... up to 1.50


I 4133mhz run 16 16 16 33 at 1.48 and SA is at 1.28 IO at 1.26


----------



## Zemach

4133 Cl 15 15 15 35 Aida64


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## SoldierRBT

3200C14 RGB @ 4700MHz 18-19-19-39 1.55v IO 1.30v SA 1.35v


----------



## Zemach

4800 CL 14 14 14 28 super pi 5.56m


----------



## Carillo

SoldierRBT said:


> 3200C14 RGB @ 4700MHz 18-19-19-39 1.55v IO 1.30v SA 1.35v


APEX, simply the best there is. Strong IMC


----------



## Zemach

4800 CL 17 17 17 34 1.575v VCCIO 1.362v VCCSA 1.41250 MT pass 5000%+ TestMem 5 Pass 5 Cyde


----------



## Jpmboy

^^ Nice!


----------



## nick name

Do very many people here run b-die above 1.5V daily? If so -- how much higher?


----------



## Jpmboy

nick name said:


> Do very many people here run b-die above 1.5V daily? If so -- how much higher?


I had a set on the Apex IX (7700K) at 1.6V for over a year. Down clocked a few things swapped in a 7350K and gave it to one of the younglings. That kit runs fine on a different rig today. Within reason, Vdimm has more of an effect on the CPU IMC than the ram sticks themselves (according to Intel).


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

nick name said:


> Do very many people here run b-die above 1.5V daily? If so -- how much higher?


For b-die, if the temperature is lower than 55c, its fine to run above 1.5V


----------



## Imprezzion

nick name said:


> Do very many people here run b-die above 1.5V daily? If so -- how much higher?


1.554v daily. And I might go even higher if I can find a way to keep them under 50c without the fan getting too loud at 1.6v ish.


----------



## mattliston

Imprezzion said:


> 1.554v daily. And I might go even higher if I can find a way to keep them under 50c without the fan getting too loud at 1.6v ish.





zalman or someone else back in the day of ddr2 had thick copper slabs for ram heatsinks you could buy.


Sounds like something worth tracking down if you need to control temps at those voltages.


Else on ebay find an OLD style corsair ram cooler, and swap the fan with a nice noctua type, and enjoy a hefty temp drop


----------



## SoldierRBT

Been using 1.522v. Here's my daily OC. 4600 17-18-18-38 1.25v IO 1.275v SA.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Just get 4700 17-17-17-35 stabled on this 9900K. VDIMM 1.6V, IO 1.35V SA 1.6V. Still need some fine tunes on those volts.


----------



## bxcounter

4100 cl14 - 2h GSAT pass

Never thought this would pass.


----------



## mouacyk

bxcounter said:


> 4100 cl14 - 2h GSAT pass
> 
> Never thought this would pass.


That's insane but nice work. What temperatures did the modules peak at?


----------



## bxcounter

mouacyk said:


> bxcounter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4100 cl14 - 2h GSAT pass
> 
> Never thought this would pass.
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane but nice work. What temperatures did the modules peak at?
Click to expand...

 Actually they don't have temp sensors. I cool them with 3x40mm noctua fans.


----------



## nick name

I appreciate you guys answering my question about running b-dies above 1.5V daily. The AMD guys don't really run the same speeds y'all guys get to so I thank y'all for being a resource for me. Unfortunately my 3600CL15 kit doesn't seem to scale well with voltage at 4400MHz. Perhaps I should have a look at the G.Skill 4400CL19 1.4V kit?

And what I do for my RAM cooling is place a fan on top of my GPU directly in front of my RAM sticks. My AIO allows for this and it might be a suitable solution for others that need active cooling on their RAM.


----------



## Jpmboy

nick name said:


> I appreciate you guys answering my question about running b-dies above 1.5V daily. The AMD guys don't really run the same speeds y'all guys get to so I thank y'all for being a resource for me. Unfortunately my 3600CL15 kit doesn't seem to scale well with voltage at 4400MHz. Perhaps I should have a look at the G.Skill 4400CL19 1.4V kit?
> 
> And what I do for my RAM cooling is place a fan on top of my GPU directly in front of my RAM sticks. My AIO allows for this and it might be a suitable solution for others that need active cooling on their RAM.


I have 3 3600c15 kits. this is a tighter bin (and tighter die, I recall 17nm vs 19 ir 20nm). It should scale very well. I have 2 kits running at 4000c16 on ab x299 platform, and the other kit runs the same frequencies (but needs longer RTLs) than my 4800c18 Trident Royals. the 4400c19 kit is a lower bin in my experience.


----------



## Judah R

welp I water cooled my Patriot Viper Ram today....

I got to 4200 17-17-17-37 stable at 1.45v, but now I am not afraid to increase voltage. I am going to try 1.5v+ and see if I can go higher, not worried about Ram getting hot now 
oh and it is a pain in the butt to water cool ram, from taking the heat sinks off carefully, to making sure you have ram seated and working properly BEFORE you clamp down all the water blocks and lines, etc....
This Ram has no temperature sensor but I've done this before on ram that had sensors and temps went FROM 30c idle to 40c load, down to 28c idle and 30c load...... I am sure this ram will not get much past 30c under load.


----------



## mouacyk

Judah R said:


> welp I water cooled my Patriot Viper Ram today....
> 
> I got to 4200 17-17-17-37 stable at 1.45v, but now I am not afraid to increase voltage. I am going to try 1.5v+ and see if I can go higher, not worried about Ram getting hot now
> oh and it is a pain in the butt to water cool ram, from taking the heat sinks off carefully, to making sure you have ram seated and working properly BEFORE you clamp down all the water blocks and lines, etc....
> This Ram has no temperature sensor but I've done this before on ram that had sensors and temps went FROM 30c idle to 40c load, down to 28c idle and 30c load...... I am sure this ram will not get much past 30c under load.


Very interested to see how far you can push those modules under water. Please share back your findings. Was it difficult to remove the stock heat-spreaders?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

nick name said:


> I appreciate you guys answering my question about running b-dies above 1.5V daily. The AMD guys don't really run the same speeds y'all guys get to so I thank y'all for being a resource for me. Unfortunately my 3600CL15 kit doesn't seem to scale well with voltage at 4400MHz. Perhaps I should have a look at the G.Skill 4400CL19 1.4V kit?
> 
> And what I do for my RAM cooling is place a fan on top of my GPU directly in front of my RAM sticks. My AIO allows for this and it might be a suitable solution for others that need active cooling on their RAM.


3600C15 should be used to hit lower latency under 4600 since its A1 PCB.

4400C18D 1.4V should be comparable to 3600C15D 1.35V


----------



## nick name

Jpmboy said:


> I have 3 3600c15 kits. this is a tighter bin (and tighter die, I recall 17nm vs 19 ir 20nm). It should scale very well. I have 2 kits running at 4000c16 on ab x299 platform, and the other kit runs the same frequencies (but needs longer RTLs) than my 4800c18 Trident Royals. the 4400c19 kit is a lower bin in my experience.





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3600C15 should be used to hit lower latency under 4600 since its A1 PCB.
> 
> 4400C18D 1.4V should be comparable to 3600C15D 1.35V


I appreciate the insight. 

I was hoping I could translate some of your wonderful Intel results over to AMD and since it doesn't sound like the RAM is what's preventing me then it's probably the IMC. 

While it's nice being able to play with 4400MHz speeds I can't get anywhere near the timings you guys run with any stability. And without those timings the added latency of de-coupling the AMD IF with the UCLK/MEMCLK at higher than 3800MHz doesn't feel worth it. 

Thank you again for the help and letting me be the exchange student in the great land of Intel Memory OC. 

Au to mo biiiiiiile. Rake. Biiig rake.


----------



## Judah R

mouacyk said:


> Very interested to see how far you can push those modules under water. Please share back your findings. Was it difficult to remove the stock heat-spreaders?


I generally do not think that water cooling the ram will make that much difference, I still think I am limited to what the CPU/Motherboard/Ram can handle, also I have 4x8gb sticks, so I think harder to push 4 sticks then 2. I thought I had 4266 17-17-17-35 working at 1.50V in bios... HWiNFO64 said 1.488v in windows, but I got an error in RamTest in 1 hour. 4200mhz seems to work... having trouble with anything higher.

As for getting these particular heat sinks off. Patience is key. One half covering the side where the Ram chips are comes off very easy with a little bit of heat from a heat gun ( in my case a hair dryer, lol). The back part covering the back of the pcb is more difficult, you have to heat it up and gently pull, little by little, can take 20 minutes or more per stick. Also if using EKWB ram module blocks, you need to SAVE the thicker "thermal pad" off the back the original pcb to secure it on the ram block. Also again, be careful if using a credit card or thin plastic thingy to slide between the heat sink and ram... it is very easy.... to clip off a little doodad and brick your ram stick, I broke one ram stick before trying to hurry, lost money, had to buy a pair of ram sticks to replace the one I broke.


----------



## Carillo

Hello

Does anyone know what die the Corsair Dominator Platinum Orange Limited editon 3400 cl16.18.18.40(CMD16GX4M4B3400C16) have ?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Judah R said:


> I generally do not think that water cooling the ram will make that much difference, I still think I am limited to what the CPU/Motherboard/Ram can handle, also I have 4x8gb sticks, so I think harder to push 4 sticks then 2. I thought I had 4266 17-17-17-35 working at 1.50V in bios... HWiNFO64 said 1.488v in windows, but I got an error in RamTest in 1 hour. 4200mhz seems to work... having trouble with anything higher.
> 
> As for getting these particular heat sinks off. Patience is key. One half covering the side where the Ram chips are comes off very easy with a little bit of heat from a heat gun ( in my case a hair dryer, lol). The back part covering the back of the pcb is more difficult, you have to heat it up and gently pull, little by little, can take 20 minutes or more per stick. Also if using EKWB ram module blocks, you need to SAVE the thicker "thermal pad" off the back the original pcb to secure it on the ram block. Also again, be careful if using a credit card or thin plastic thingy to slide between the heat sink and ram... it is very easy.... to clip off a little doodad and brick your ram stick, I broke one ram stick before trying to hurry, lost money, had to buy a pair of ram sticks to replace the one I broke.


You may try lower volts since 4 dimms are easily getting hot. And for 4 dimms you should need higher IO volts.

I am afraid 1.5 might be too high for 4266c17. My 4133C17 sticks can run 4700 17-17-35 under 1.55V. I think 1.45V or lower should work for your case.


----------



## Judah R

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You may try lower volts since 4 dimms are easily getting hot. And for 4 dimms you should need higher IO volts.
> 
> I am afraid 1.5 might be too high for 4266c17. My 4133C17 sticks can run 4700 17-17-35 under 1.55V. I think 1.45V or lower should work for your case.


You can have TOO MUCH voltage? I did not know that.

I just did 2 hours on that karhusoftware ram test. 4200 17-17-17-35 at 1.46v in bios, hwinfo64 says a steady 1.456v in windows. I lowered VCCSA and VCCIO/IMC:
VCCSA 1.368v~1.376v
VCCIO 1.384v~1.408v

XMP profile #2 on this ram is 4266 c19 @ 1.35v Profile #1 is 4400 c19 @ 1.45v

Do you think trying less voltage might help ?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Judah R said:


> You can have TOO MUCH voltage? I did not know that.
> 
> I just did 2 hours on that karhusoftware ram test. 4200 17-17-17-35 at 1.46v in bios, hwinfo64 says a steady 1.456v in windows. I lowered VCCSA and VCCIO/IMC:
> VCCSA 1.368v~1.376v
> VCCIO 1.384v~1.408v
> 
> XMP profile #2 on this ram is 4266 c19 @ 1.35v Profile #1 is 4400 c19 @ 1.45v
> 
> Do you think trying less voltage might help ?


For b-die temp matters a lot. You may try fix the vdimm to 1.45 and see how far they can go. The dimm temp should be kept below 50c to reduce the bsod chance.

4 dimms are really close to each other. The middle two will get really hot. Water cooling should help a lot. Besides, 1.37 and 1.4 IO/SA seems a little high for 4200, you can also lower them since the IMC temp also affects the dimm stability


----------



## Carillo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For b-die temp matters a lot. You may try fix the vdimm to 1.45 and see how far they can go. The dimm temp should be kept below 50c to reduce the bsod chance.
> 
> 4 dimms are really close to each other. The middle two will get really hot. Water cooling should help a lot. Besides, 1.37 and 1.4 IO/SA seems a little high for 4200, you can also lower them since the IMC temp also affects the dimm stability


No problem keeping the dimms below 45C using 1.58VDIMM using a 120mm fan...


----------



## Judah R

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For b-die temp matters a lot. You may try fix the vdimm to 1.45 and see how far they can go. The dimm temp should be kept below 50c to reduce the bsod chance.
> 
> 4 dimms are really close to each other. The middle two will get really hot. Water cooling should help a lot. Besides, 1.37 and 1.4 IO/SA seems a little high for 4200, you can also lower them since the IMC temp also affects the dimm stability


Temperature should be no issue on my setup, I have everything watercooled and cpu delidded.

I will try to continue to drop IO/SA voltage if I can. I will also try lowering dimm voltage and see what posts.


----------



## Imprezzion

I noticed in testing 4400+Mhz that my IMC actually tends to get unstable above a certain voltage, for me that's above 1.35v IO/SA, so yeah, there's definitely a point there. Then again, I'm not delidded, only lapped, and I run a EK Phoenix kit so it's sort of "watercooled" but it's a semi-custom with a single 280 rad so temps might be the problem as well. Core is well under control but no idea how hot the IMC gets.


----------



## bp7178

eminded1 said:


> NICE OC, I have the same 2 kits and im running 4x8gb on my Z390 Hero for a total of 32gb
> 
> I got them at 4133mhz 16 16 16 33 @ 1.48 , 1.25 IO, 1.26 SA .95 DMI 1.05 Core PLL
> 
> I cant boot past 4133 no matter what settings I try. must just be the luck of the draw or im maxing out the memory lanes inside the motherboard.. ill try c15 at a higher voltage and post back with results.


I encountered a similar roadblock until I switched to Maximus Tweak Mode 2 and enabled trace centering.


----------



## nick name

Judah R said:


> Temperature should be no issue on my setup, I have everything watercooled and cpu delidded.
> 
> I will try to continue to drop IO/SA voltage if I can. I will also try lowering dimm voltage and see what posts.


God bless that case is cavernous. What is it? And what's the whole system look like?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> No problem keeping the dimms below 45C using 1.58VDIMM using a 120mm fan...


Yup, with extra cooling you can run even 1.6V. I meant if there were no extra fans. I am running 4700C17 1.55v daily and it is cool even under GPU loads.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I noticed in testing 4400+Mhz that my IMC actually tends to get unstable above a certain voltage, for me that's above 1.35v IO/SA, so yeah, there's definitely a point there. Then again, I'm not delidded, only lapped, and I run a EK Phoenix kit so it's sort of "watercooled" but it's a semi-custom with a single 280 rad so temps might be the problem as well. Core is well under control but no idea how hot the IMC gets.


You can try to keep the IO as 1.35V and rise SA if you are running a 2 DIMM board. Most CPU are more sensitive to VCCIO. IMO, the cooler the CPU, the better chance you will reach higher mem freq. -30C and -60C will even have 100MHz difference under extreme conditions.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bp7178 said:


> I encountered a similar roadblock until I switched to Maximus Tweak Mode 2 and enabled trace centering.


Don't use Mode 2 since it is only aimed at high frequency (4600+) and will result in wired r/w performance.

Try 1302 bios, which should handle 4266+ with no effort.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Judah R said:


> Temperature should be no issue on my setup, I have everything watercooled and cpu delidded.
> 
> I will try to continue to drop IO/SA voltage if I can. I will also try lowering dimm voltage and see what posts.


Best luck! The optimum for 4266 should be around 1.25-1.35.


----------



## Judah R

nick name said:


> God bless that case is cavernous. What is it? And what's the whole system look like?


Its a Case Labs Case. I got it maybe 6 years ago, but they went out of business like 3 years ago 
They used to cost a lot but great quality. I have 2 360/60mm rads in front and a 480/60mm rad in the back, and 24 fans. Its crazy overkill hobby fun.


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You can try to keep the IO as 1.35V and rise SA if you are running a 2 DIMM board. Most CPU are more sensitive to VCCIO. IMO, the cooler the CPU, the better chance you will reach higher mem freq. -30C and -60C will even have 100MHz difference under extreme conditions.


Nah it's a MSI Ace, 4 DIMM board. It does pretty well for memory OC, it's my bad bin of B-Die holding me back although 4200-16-17-17-34 ain't bad at all but already needs 1.554v on the RAM to be stable. They just won't do any useful timings above 4200. 4400 even remotely stable need like, 19-22-22 to even pass a couple of runs of HCI. Which is obviously slower than 4200CL16.


----------



## pegadroid

i build amd ryzen for three day.
Ryzen 9 3900x
Asus Strix x570 e
Corsair cmr32gx4m4c3466c16 4.31 (samsung b-die) 4 x8gb
--------------------------------------------------------------------
i can't run my ram with xmp profile (auto or manual set)
and now i try to run 3200 mhz with 16-18-18-18-36 1T 1.350v run HCI covered min 400% an max 900% and no have error
any sugestion for better performance?


----------



## Imprezzion

pegadroid said:


> i build amd ryzen for three day.
> Ryzen 9 3900x
> Asus Strix x570 e
> Corsair cmr32gx4m4c3466c16 4.31 (samsung b-die) 4 x8gb
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> i can't run my ram with xmp profile (auto or manual set)
> and now i try to run 3200 mhz with 16-18-18-18-36 1T 1.350v run HCI covered min 400% an max 900% and no have error
> any sugestion for better performance?


You do realize there's a AMD memory thread as well right?

But, for that CPU 3733Mhz with stock CPU clocks or 3800 
Mhz with overclocked infinity fabric to 1900Mhz would be ideal.

Then just get as tight as you can with the timings. A bit of a decent B-Die kit will do 15-15-15-30-2T any day on 3733/3800Mhz. A very good kit will usually get away with 14's and 1T CR if the CPU and board wanna play ball as well.

Mind you, I have the same kit in 16GB version, also 4.31 3466CL16, and it's not a very good bin. I can't get away with 14's on 3800Mhz and need about 1.45v to do 15's stable but I can run super tight secondaries then.


----------



## pegadroid

Imprezzion said:


> You do realize there's a AMD memory thread as well right?
> 
> But, for that CPU 3733Mhz with stock CPU clocks or 3800
> Mhz with overclocked infinity fabric to 1900Mhz would be ideal.
> 
> Then just get as tight as you can with the timings. A bit of a decent B-Die kit will do 15-15-15-30-2T any day on 3733/3800Mhz. A very good kit will usually get away with 14's and 1T CR if the CPU and board wanna play ball as well.
> 
> Mind you, I have the same kit in 16GB version, also 4.31 3466CL16, and it's not a very good bin. I can't get away with 14's on 3800Mhz and need about 1.45v to do 15's stable but I can run super tight secondaries then.


ops sorry but thanks you


----------



## Judah R

Ok so far on the 2 kits of Patriot Viper 4400 Ram I bought (4x8) here is where I am overclocking

I lowered my SA/IO voltage alot. Asus motherboard defaulted to 1.40v~1.45v on auto

Stable setting.
4000 16-16-16-33 8.0ns @ 1.46v
4200 17-17-17-35 8.0952809ns @ 1.46v
4266 19-19-19-39 8.90764181ns @ 1.35v XMP #2 Profile

Not Stable or posting.
4400 19-19-19-39 8.63636363ns @ 1.45v XMP #1 Profile


Voltage setting in bios
Bios 

1.46 Dimm Voltage
1.275 SA
1.275 IO

Windows/HwiNFO64

1.456v
1.288v ~ 1.296v
1.312v ~ 1.328v

I Tried 4133 16-16-16-33 @ 1.46v and it posted but windows was malfunctioning badly, apps wouldn't open. 
4266 17-17-17-35 @ 1.46v posted but can't go 10 minutes without error in RamTest
Seems like anything under 8ns latency is hard to post/stable.
I could try 3800 15-15-15-31 maybe.?
At the moment I am thinking of staying at 4200, also tighter timing needs more voltage on the Dimms, 4200 17-17-17-35 wont post on 1.35v but 4200 xmp profile 19-19-19-39 will.
I just use this PC for gaming, but overclocking is like a game also.

Thoughts?


----------



## bp7178

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Don't use Mode 2 since it is only aimed at high frequency (4600+) and will result in wired r/w performance.
> 
> Try 1302 bios, which should handle 4266+ with no effort.


I haven't noticed any bad read/write performance with mode 2. I haven't tested it with 1302 at all, just the most current.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Don't use Mode 2 since it is only aimed at high frequency (4600+) and will result in wired r/w performance.
> 
> Try 1302 bios, which should handle 4266+ with no effort.


I can't run 1T at any meaningful frequencies without using Mode 2.
To boost read and write I found it important to lower tRDRD_dg and tWRWR_dg as much as possible.
If I have to stay home due to the virus I might try your suggestion and get back with the results.
I might even try my current overclock with the 1302 BIOS


----------



## eminded1

I got a new build coming I got a great deal on the z390 gene and I bought a kit of gskill 16gb 3600mhz c15d- gtz I heard this kit can go up to 4700mhz + on the gene. anyone get this ram up to that level let me know. 

F43600C15D16GTZ

if anyone has this kit can you tell me what settings you used to get it over 4700 or 4500 at c16 or c17 that's what I heard about this kit .. thanks


----------



## bp7178

eminded1 said:


> I got a new build coming I got a great deal on the z390 gene and I bought a kit of gskill 16gb 3600mhz c15d- gtz I heard this kit can go up to 4700mhz + on the gene. anyone get this ram up to that level let me know.
> 
> F43600C15D16GTZ
> 
> if anyone has this kit can you tell me what settings you used to get it over 4700 or 4500 at c16 or c17 that's what I heard about this kit .. thanks


I really suggest working up your own timings. I used this guide...

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

Which has helped me tremendously with memory overclocking.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

eminded1 said:


> I got a new build coming I got a great deal on the z390 gene and I bought a kit of gskill 16gb 3600mhz c15d- gtz I heard this kit can go up to 4700mhz + on the gene. anyone get this ram up to that level let me know.
> 
> F43600C15D16GTZ
> 
> if anyone has this kit can you tell me what settings you used to get it over 4700 or 4500 at c16 or c17 that's what I heard about this kit .. thanks



I have 3 of 3600C15D kits. All of them can run 4600 17-18-36 under 1.5V on M11 Gene.

4600 VDIMM=1.5-1.52V
Mode 1
IO 1.35
SA 1.4
17-18-36-320-65535
tRDRD_sg/dg=6/4
tWRWR_sg/dg=6/4


----------



## Carillo

eminded1 said:


> I got a new build coming I got a great deal on the z390 gene and I bought a kit of gskill 16gb 3600mhz c15d- gtz I heard this kit can go up to 4700mhz + on the gene. anyone get this ram up to that level let me know.
> 
> F43600C15D16GTZ
> 
> if anyone has this kit can you tell me what settings you used to get it over 4700 or 4500 at c16 or c17 that's what I heard about this kit .. thanks[/QUOTE
> 
> 99% of the time it depends on the CPU IMC if you can run 4400mhz plus. I have tried a bunch of coffelake cpu's on Maximus Gene and MSI MPEG with diffents b.dies kit including g.skill royal kits and the 3600 cl15 kit, and only one CPU( out of at least 10) could do 4600 or above). Even both my 9900KS can not do more than 4500mhz. At least that is my experience.


----------



## Aontaigh

Any suggestions on tightening these timings?


----------



## CptSpig

Aontaigh said:


> Any suggestions on tightening these timings?


Are these values tested with GSAT or Ram test ect. Your RLT's and IO's look off. Are these setting stable?


----------



## Aontaigh

CptSpig said:


> Are these values tested with GSAT or Ram test ect. Your RLT's and IO's look off. Are these setting stable?


They've ran for about twelve hours in various Prime95 tests.


----------



## Jpmboy

Aontaigh said:


> They've ran for about twelve hours in various Prime95 tests.


Yeah, p95 does not test the ram near as well as GSAT or HCi or ramtest. Also, any changes you make can be tested for stability in an hour with GSAT rather than punishing the CPU with p95 for hours.


----------



## Aontaigh

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah, p95 does not test the ram near as well as GSAT or HCi or ramtest. Also, any changes you make can be tested for stability in an hour with GSAT rather than punishing the CPU with p95 for hours.





CptSpig said:


> Are these values tested with GSAT or Ram test ect. Your RLT's and IO's look off. Are these setting stable?












Any suggestions on further tightening these timings?


----------



## nick name

Judah R said:


> Its a Case Labs Case. I got it maybe 6 years ago, but they went out of business like 3 years ago
> They used to cost a lot but great quality. I have 2 360/60mm rads in front and a 480/60mm rad in the back, and 24 fans. Its crazy overkill hobby fun.


I love it.


----------



## Jpmboy

Aontaigh said:


> Any suggestions on further tightening these timings?


looks good, You running a 6 core CPU?
Anyway, it stable the timings look good. What are you looking to improve? Latency? Bandwidth?


----------



## Aontaigh

Jpmboy said:


> looks good, You running a 6 core CPU?
> Anyway, it stable the timings look good. What are you looking to improve? Latency? Bandwidth?



*CPU:* Intel Core i5-8600K - 4.9GHz (Delidded | vCore: 1.435v | VCCIO: 1.175v | VCCSA: 1.175v | Cache: 4800MHz)
*RAM:* TEAM GROUP DARK PRO EDITION (8GB x 2 | Frequency: 3866MHz | Timings: 16-16-16-34 | vDIMM: 1.5v | B-Die)
*Motherboard:* ASUS Z370-A

With the latest BIOS revision, no amount of stupid voltage will get me back to 5GHz (Even 1.5v).

This had led me to focus on the RAM though this board doesn't seem to play nicely with anything over 3866MHz so that would make me look at tightening some timings.


----------



## Jpmboy

Aontaigh said:


> *CPU:* Intel Core i5-8600K - 4.9GHz (Delidded | vCore: 1.435v | VCCIO: 1.175v | VCCSA: 1.175v | Cache: 4800MHz)
> *RAM:* TEAM GROUP DARK PRO EDITION (8GB x 2 | Frequency: 3866MHz | Timings: 16-16-16-34 | vDIMM: 1.5v | B-Die)
> *Motherboard:* ASUS Z370-A
> 
> With the latest BIOS revision, no amount of stupid voltage will get me back to 5GHz (Even 1.5v).
> 
> This had led me to focus on the RAM though this board doesn't seem to play nicely with anything over 3866MHz so that would make me look at tightening some timings.


RTLs and IOLs are the most impactful of any timings. Are the values in the screenshot you posted from Auto or set manually?


----------



## Aontaigh

Jpmboy said:


> RTLs and IOLs are the most impactful of any timings. Are the values in the screenshot you posted from Auto or set manually?



I have manually set the IOLs to 21, other than that everything in that section has been left auto.

Current benchmarks as a reference:


----------



## CptSpig

Aontaigh said:


> I have manually set the IOLs to 21, other than that everything in that section has been left auto.


Can you set them all to auto and post up the RLT's and IO's so JP can give his advice. JP is a memory Guru....


----------



## bp7178

Jpmboy said:


> RTLs and IOLs are the most impactful of any timings.


Interesting. Do you have any advice on how to set them?


----------



## Imprezzion

I have no idea if mine are optimal but I run offset 24 with 65/65/1/1 initials and that trains perfectly on 60/61/6/7 with my specific clocks. 

Performance is also way better then Auto which is more like 71/71/9/10.

I did do some testing with lower Initials for example but any combination of Initial and Offset lower than 65 would either not boot or miss training and go to like 59/64/5/9 or something wierd.


----------



## Scorpion667

I upgraded my gaming rig from a 3930k and this is my first time overclocking DDR4 RAM - pretty happy with the results! May I please get your input on how to push this kit further?

CPU: 9900KS @ 5Ghz 1.27v (LLC5, 1.148v load) Prime95/Realbench stable
Motherboard: Apex XI BIOS 1302
RAM: Team T-Force 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 4200Mhz 16-17-17-39 1.45v (B-Die, A2 PCB) TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01
VCCIO/SA: 1.25v
Cache: 4.8Ghz
Cooling: 280MM AIO, 2x 140mm fans blowing directly against RAM/VRM
Config type: 24/7 stable gaming

Note: Lowering TRAS, TRP, TRCD individually even one notch fails Karthu RAMtest, even at 4133Mhz with 1.55 VDIMM. I would prefer to keep SA/IO at 1.25v or less. As long as I'm not hurting the IMC I'm willing to pump VDIMM.

This config passed GSAT (1hr) and Karthu RAMtest 10000%. Will run additional stability tests overnight.
[EDIT] just passed one hour of TM5 extreme preset [/EDIT]


----------



## Jpmboy

bp7178 said:


> Interesting. Do you have any advice on how to set them?


RTLs are measured during post, so the extent they can be lowered, and still pass POST, will depend on the margins in trace length/path and the ram ICs layout. If you manually change these to bad values you will have to clrcmos to get back into bios unless your board has a safeboot function or MemOkay reset. (Q-codes like 49, 55 will be common on most boards when these cannot train).
If your board will actually allow you to set these (many won't - and you'll know first try), begin with the values Auto determines for RTL and IOL on the populated channels at the stick's base frequency (SPD, not XMP) and note the stepping in each channel. Lower these as sets, leaving all other timings on Auto, eg, you must lower the RTL and IOL for each channel at the same time and maintain any stepping: so if SPD posts with say 60/61 and 10/10 or 10/11, lower the rtls manually say to 59/60 8/8 9/9, 8/9, 9/10, add some VDIMM (25-100mV at a time) and see if it will post. Once you understand the behavior of the sticks and mobo at SPD (when you lower rtl and iol) hold those constant and see how far, if at all the freq can increase with those RTLs and IOLs.

Another approach is to find your best high freq and timing settings, then attempt to lower the RTLs and IOLs in the same stepping until it fails to post (then clrcmos). Every other timing is dependent on the round trip time (RTL) so this can get tricky is ferreting out the lowest RTLs a timing set is compatible with.

Lastly, if the bios has what's called an RTL init, or RTL offset (or both). You can change th eoffset value - but remember it is an offset - the operating value is the offset + value, so check that this actually changes performance. The Init value can be lowered - thre's a formula I have to find around here for setting this in an ideal, but rather conservative manner - it has never improved performance or lowered RTLs for me.

RTLs and IOLs generally increase with frequency, eg; rtls for 3600 will be lower than 4000, but much of that scaling is related to the working CAS at the frequency. 

Be advised: RTLs and IOLs are the ultimate rabbit hole. Be prepared to be humbled by tuning these measured values, but many ram/board combos have margins you can capitalize on. :thumb:
Enough rambling from me.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Scorpion667 said:


> I upgraded my gaming rig from a 3930k and this is my first time overclocking DDR4 RAM - pretty happy with the results! May I please get your input on how to push this kit further?
> 
> CPU: 9900KS @ 5Ghz 1.27v (LLC5, 1.148v load) Prime95/Realbench stable
> Motherboard: Apex XI BIOS 1302
> RAM: Team T-Force 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 4200Mhz 16-17-17-39 1.45v (B-Die, A2 PCB) TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01
> VCCIO/SA: 1.25v
> Cache: 4.8Ghz
> Cooling: 280MM AIO, 2x 140mm fans blowing directly against RAM/VRM
> Config type: 24/7 stable gaming
> 
> Note: Lowering TRAS, TRP, TRCD individually even one notch fails Karthu RAMtest, even at 4133Mhz with 1.55 VDIMM. I would prefer to keep SA/IO at 1.25v or less. As long as I'm not hurting the IMC I'm willing to pump VDIMM.
> 
> This config passed GSAT (1hr) and Karthu RAMtest 10000%. Will run additional stability tests overnight.
> [EDIT] just passed one hour of TM5 extreme preset [/EDIT]


SA under 1.6V won't hurt anything. Just don't let IO/SA exceed 1.5V at the same time.

My setting is here. VDIMM 1.54, IO 1.35, SA 1.53.


----------



## Scorpion667

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> SA under 1.6V won't hurt anything. Just don't let IO/SA exceed 1.5V at the same time.
> 
> My setting is here. VDIMM 1.54, IO 1.35, SA 1.53.


Thank you. I will consider increasing IO/SA voltage if I can prove it helps with this particular kit. 

Has anyone tried the Gskill 4000 cl15 2x8GB non-RGB kit?

https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232968

Does someone have recommendations for a bleeding edge retail kit? 2x8GB ideally but I would consider a 4x8GB kit and binning for the top two sticks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## munternet

Scorpion667 said:


> I upgraded my gaming rig from a 3930k and this is my first time overclocking DDR4 RAM - pretty happy with the results! May I please get your input on how to push this kit further?
> 
> CPU: 9900KS @ 5Ghz 1.27v (LLC5, 1.148v load) Prime95/Realbench stable
> Motherboard: Apex XI BIOS 1302
> RAM: Team T-Force 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 4200Mhz 16-17-17-39 1.45v (B-Die, A2 PCB) TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01
> VCCIO/SA: 1.25v
> Cache: 4.8Ghz
> Cooling: 280MM AIO, 2x 140mm fans blowing directly against RAM/VRM
> Config type: 24/7 stable gaming
> 
> Note: Lowering TRAS, TRP, TRCD individually even one notch fails Karthu RAMtest, even at 4133Mhz with 1.55 VDIMM. I would prefer to keep SA/IO at 1.25v or less. As long as I'm not hurting the IMC I'm willing to pump VDIMM.
> 
> This config passed GSAT (1hr) and Karthu RAMtest 10000%. Will run additional stability tests overnight.
> [EDIT] just passed one hour of TM5 extreme preset [/EDIT]


Looking at your comments you might want to try 1T to reduce the SA/IO
I have the Gene, not the Apex alas, and I'm using the 1401 bios which I assume is similar between the boards https://www.overclock.net/forum/28366738-post11717.html
Tried a HyperX 4000C19 kit also and it ran on the identical settings but with errors
I wouldn't be surprised if your kit runs much better than mine on your Apex
I removed the ram water cooling today and tested a few kits but none ran as well as the G.Skill 4400/C19s I've been running and they didn't even test stable without the water cooling
Once they hit 40c they started to error
The low latency 3600 G.Skill kits seem popular and reasonable value


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Scorpion667 said:


> Thank you. I will consider increasing IO/SA voltage if I can prove it helps with this particular kit.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Gskill 4000 cl15 2x8GB non-RGB kit?
> 
> https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232968
> 
> Does someone have recommendations for a bleeding edge retail kit? 2x8GB ideally but I would consider a 4x8GB kit and binning for the top two sticks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I haven't tried this non-RGB kit, but I will definitely go for the RGB kit since they're A2 PCB, which is good for 4800+ Freq.

3600C15, 4000C15, 4133C17,4266C17, 4400C18 are all good kits from Gskill. You can also consider Ballistix Max 4400 if you would try 5000+.


----------



## Aontaigh

CptSpig said:


> Can you set them all to auto and post up the RLT's and IO's so JP can give his advice. JP is a memory Guru....



These are my default RTL/IOLs:


----------



## Imprezzion

Aontaigh said:


> These are my default RTL/IOLs:


Just as a quick test, leave all on Auto and only change the RTL Initial to a lower value like, 65 (they are 67 now) and see if that drops the overall D1 values. Go lower on Initial untill it doesn't boot or misses training if D1 is more then 1 value apart. Go back to the last successful one, then raise offset by 1, check D1 again for training, pick highest working offset with lowest possible initials. This is a quick and dirty improvement over stock Auto.


----------



## CptSpig

Aontaigh said:


> These are my default RTL/IOLs:


JP posted this above.


RTLs are measured during post, so the extent they can be lowered, and still pass POST, will depend on the margins in trace length/path and the ram ICs layout. If you manually change these to bad values you will have to clrcmos to get back into bios unless your board has a safeboot function or MemOkay reset. (Q-codes like 49, 55 will be common on most boards when these cannot train).
If your board will actually allow you to set these (many won't - and you'll know first try), begin with the values Auto determines for RTL and IOL on the populated channels at the stick's base frequency (SPD, not XMP) and note the stepping in each channel. Lower these as sets, leaving all other timings on Auto, eg, you must lower the RTL and IOL for each channel at the same time and maintain any stepping: so if SPD posts with say 60/61 and 10/10 or 10/11, lower the rtls manually say to 59/60 8/8 9/9, 8/9, 9/10, add some VDIMM (25-100mV at a time) and see if it will post. Once you understand the behavior of the sticks and mobo at SPD (when you lower rtl and iol) hold those constant and see how far, if at all the freq can increase with those RTLs and IOLs.

Another approach is to find your best high freq and timing settings, then attempt to lower the RTLs and IOLs in the same stepping until it fails to post (then clrcmos). Every other timing is dependent on the round trip time (RTL) so this can get tricky is ferreting out the lowest RTLs a timing set is compatible with.

Lastly, if the bios has what's called an RTL init, or RTL offset (or both). You can change th eoffset value - but remember it is an offset - the operating value is the offset + value, so check that this actually changes performance. The Init value can be lowered - thre's a formula I have to find around here for setting this in an ideal, but rather conservative manner - it has never improved performance or lowered RTLs for me.

RTLs and IOLs generally increase with frequency, eg; rtls for 3600 will be lower than 4000, but much of that scaling is related to the working CAS at the frequency.

Be advised: RTLs and IOLs are the ultimate rabbit hole. Be prepared to be humbled by tuning these measured values, but many ram/board combos have margins you can capitalize on. 
Enough rambling from me.

CptSpig: Try lowering (tRTP) to 6 and raising (tRAS) to 38, (tWTR) to 8. reboot and check your RLT's and IO's.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## munternet

reachthesky said:


> hi OCnet,
> Looking to tune the secondaries for my ram. I'm not really sure which order I should change the sub timings in and what I should prioritize first. I normally use the gitub/raja guides for ram tuning but neither guide gives an optimal order for tuning when it comes to the secondary timings.


You could try the link in my sig but it may be what you've already seen and not advanced enough for you (I'm guessing  )
On another note, have you tried lightshot as a snippy tool style app https://app.prntscr.com/en/index.html or the snippy tool from windows accessories?

Edit: I have found GSAT and Testmem5 are the fastest at finding errors as you set


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## pox02

this is mine i can push it more but i dont know how to overclock i just copy someone setting and use it


i can run 17-17-17-28 with 4500mhz but i dont know if its safe so im with 19 with 4533

my ram idle on 25-26C


----------



## Jpmboy

pox02 said:


> this is mine i can push it more but i dont know how to overclock i just copy someone setting and use it
> i can run 17-17-17-28 with 4500mhz but i dont know if its safe so im with 19 with 4533
> my ram idle on 25-26C


is that actually stable?


----------



## pox02

Jpmboy said:


> is that actually stable?


yes i test with karhu memory test with 7000% on 17-17-17-28 and 17-19-19-28


----------



## Nizzen

pox02 said:


> this is mine i can push it more but i dont know how to overclock i just copy someone setting and use it
> 
> 
> i can run 17-17-17-28 with 4500mhz but i dont know if its safe so im with 19 with 4533
> 
> my ram idle on 25-26C


Aida 64 memorybench? Love to see the result 🙂


----------



## Judah R

4x8GB Patriot ViperSteel 4400C19

Running @ 4200 17-17-17-35 @ 1.46v 
Asus Maximus X Formula 
8700k @ 5.1/4.5

1.46 Dimm Voltage
1.275 SA
1.275 IO

windows/HWiNFO64

1.456v Dimm
1.288v ~ 1.296v SA
1.312v ~ 1.328v IO



I think I got my secondary timing working.

I used https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md as a guide.


----------



## munternet

pox02 said:


> this is mine i can push it more but i dont know how to overclock i just copy someone setting and use it
> 
> 
> i can run 17-17-17-28 with 4500mhz but i dont know if its safe so im with 19 with 4533
> 
> my ram idle on 25-26C


Looks a little lop sided on the RTL's and IOL's...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Looks a little lop sided on the RTL's and IOL's...


It's wired. CHA should have similar latency as CHB. In my case, if the difference is too big, it will be unstable.


----------



## pox02

Nizzen said:


> Aida 64 memorybench? Love to see the result 🙂


there u go


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi. Sandwich of two sets.
Galaxy Hall of Fame Extreme Ceramic White 16Gb 2x8
Corsair Vengeance LpX Red Version BoX AiR 16Gb 2x8 
3800Mhz CL 14-16-16-34


----------



## Nizzen

pox02 said:


> there u go


Tnx  +1


----------



## Judah R

Question :

What number should I set tREFI

Max 65535 ? or 32767 ?

does it matter for a 32gb kit ?

Is it risky to do max?


----------



## Aontaigh

Imprezzion said:


> Just as a quick test, leave all on Auto and only change the RTL Initial to a lower value like, 65 (they are 67 now) and see if that drops the overall D1 values. Go lower on Initial untill it doesn't boot or misses training if D1 is more then 1 value apart. Go back to the last successful one, then raise offset by 1, check D1 again for training, pick highest working offset with lowest possible initials. This is a quick and dirty improvement over stock Auto.



I did that and managed to get:


----------



## Jpmboy

Judah R said:


> Question :
> 
> What number should I set tREFI
> 
> Max 65535 ? or 32767 ?
> 
> does it matter for a 32gb kit ?
> 
> Is it risky to do max?


2x the auto value is fine as is 32767. The max chipset limit should be used only for benchmarks and such. It buys very little otherwise and can lead to bit decay during sleep or prolonged ram disk and ram cache residency.


----------



## Scorpion667

Unfortunately this is as far as I can push this Team 2133 kit with usable timings (passed 8 hour GSAT). Primary timings won't budge any lower even at 4133/4000 and extra VDIMM/SA/IO/core volts. Even tried 6 cores disabled/HT off to try and rule out the IMC and no difference.

Pulled the trigger on a Gskill 4000Mhz C15 kit (F4-4000C15D-16GVK) and will start over.


----------



## munternet

Scorpion667 said:


> Pulled the trigger on a Gskill 4000Mhz C15 kit (F4-4000C15D-16GVK) and will start over.


Sounds like a really nice kit :thumb:


----------



## Worldwin

Aontaigh said:


> I did that and managed to get:


Bottom right one you are only testing 200MB.


----------



## bxcounter

4133 @ 14-15-15-35 - 2H GSAT pass.


Almost everything is as low as it can get.
Feels blazing fast, even though aida latency is high.
Oh, and GSAT bandwith is 48,1


----------



## munternet

bxcounter said:


> 4133 @ 14-15-15-35 - 2H GSAT pass.
> 
> 
> Almost everything is as low as it can get.
> Feels blazing fast, even though aida latency is high.
> Oh, and GSAT bandwith is 48,1


Speed and latency look real good, nice timings 
Have you tried a memory test like TestMem5? It finds memory errors for me when GSAT doesn't.
Do the sticks get warm at that voltage?

Edit: Looks like a nice board. Beefy VRMs and nice memory traces.


----------



## bxcounter

munternet said:


> Speed and latency look real good, nice timings
> Have you tried a memory test like TestMem5? It finds memory errors for me when GSAT doesn't.
> Do the sticks get warm at that voltage?
> 
> Edit: Looks like a nice board. Beefy VRMs and nice memory traces.


Nope, haven't tried TestMem5. Will probably run HCI at later date though.
Sticks are cold to touch (at least the outer one is ), but they are properly air cooled so no worries there.


Actually Z390-I Gaming is really good with memory frequencies only up to 4400, and VRM only for six core CPU-s (Mind you this is my experience runing 9900k and observing voltage drops on various LLC levels). I also have "MSI Z390I Gaming Edge AC" and it's much better board overall.


----------



## munternet

bxcounter said:


> Nope, haven't tried TestMem5. Will probably run HCI at later date though.
> Sticks are cold to touch (at least the outer one is ), but they are properly air cooled so no worries there.
> 
> 
> Actually Z390-I Gaming is really good with memory frequencies only up to 4400, and VRM only for six core CPU-s (Mind you this is my experience runing 9900k and observing voltage drops on various LLC levels). I also have "MSI Z390I Gaming Edge AC" and it's much better board overall.


I find TM5 far better and faster at finding memory errors than HCI. I thought I was stable when I wasn't.
On vdroop, I ran P95 26.6 small fft's for over an hour at 95c max with vcore set 1.46v LLC5 and 1.296v under load (CPU package 230w) in hwinfo. Found this is the best combo for stability although the droop is through the floor. Tighter (LLC 6 or 7) made the transients too great and blue screened, so maybe your VRMs aren't as bad as you thought, or it's just what I've come to accept as normal


----------



## bakenek

Hello,



This is my first time changing more than primary timings.

Next ill try tfaw to 24 and tras 37, tras 36 had errors

how is this looking, is there something that i should definetly change or wrong? : D

what about dllbwen, cant find much info on this? says set to 2-4 for best oc, it can be set to 0 and 1 also. used auto on it for now.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Corsair Vengeance LpX ReD


----------



## Scorpion667

Can high VDIMM (1.6-1.7v) degrade the IMC if the SA/IO volts are around 1.25v? Is there a recommended offset between VDIMM and SA/IO? I don't care so much about killing the RAM as I have another set coming but have grown quite fond of the CPU.

Fat RAM sinks with direct airflow.


----------



## bxcounter

Scorpion667 said:


> Can high VDIMM (1.6-1.7v) degrade the IMC if the SA/IO volts are around 1.25v? Is there a recommended offset between VDIMM and SA/IO? I don't care so much about killing the RAM as I have another set coming but have grown quite fond of the CPU.
> 
> Fat RAM sinks with direct airflow.



I'll let everybody here know if (or should i say when) that happens 


ps..according to Intel, yes, 1.5v should be maximum vdimm.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Scorpion667 said:


> Can high VDIMM (1.6-1.7v) degrade the IMC if the SA/IO volts are around 1.25v? Is there a recommended offset between VDIMM and SA/IO? I don't care so much about killing the RAM as I have another set coming but have grown quite fond of the CPU.
> 
> Fat RAM sinks with direct airflow.


Below 4000, IO/SA<1.2V

4000-4266 2DIMM: IO/SA=1.2-1.35V/1.2-1.35V 4DIMM: IO/SA=1.35V/1.2-1.35V

4266-4500 2DIMM: IO/SA=1.35V/1.35-1.45V 4DIMM:IO/SA=1.35V-1.45V/1.35V-1.5V

4500-4800 2DIMM: IO/SA=1.35V/1.45V-1.65V 4DIMM:IO/SA=no idea....

4800+ 2DIMM: IO/SA=1.35V/1.6-1.65V 4DIMM:IO/SA=no idea...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bxcounter said:


> I'll let everybody here know if (or should i say when) that happens
> 
> 
> ps..according to Intel, yes, 1.5v should be maximum vdimm.


Below 2V are all ok since you can efficiently cool your dimms. Daily below 1.6V


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Corsair Vengeance LpX ReD
4500Mhz 19-19-19


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Corsair Vengeance LpX ReD
> 4500Mhz 19-19-19


Very good mate. Impressive result on a daisy chain MB.

Based on your volts, you might be able to try higher frequency.


----------



## Jpmboy

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Corsair Vengeance LpX ReD
> 4500Mhz 19-19-19


looks real good! :thumb:


----------



## Gen.

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Corsair Vengeance LpX ReD
> 4500Mhz 19-19-19


Hey. Try my settings


----------



## Bo55

Hi all, can someone shed some light here for me please? Happy to have built a new rig 8 months ago with the intention to get the highest memory performance i can get for both gaming and light video editing use.

Here is what i ended up with

9900kf 5.1 @ 1.288v under load AVX 0
ML360R
Maximus Apex Xi bios 1401
G.skill F4-4000C17D-16GTZR


My issue is that i can only achieve a maximum of 4133 stable using the Raja preset in the bios 17-18-18-38 2T. If i try and experiment with both tight or lose timings and attempt to boot at anything higher than that, i get instant errors in TM5 and BSOD's. Ive tried CL16 4000, Cl18 and Cl19 4200,4300,4400 all at 2T and between 1.4-1.47v and 1.25 VCCIO and 1.275 VCCSA but anything higher than that hits a wall. I can boot at 4400 using only the Maximus tweak set to MODE 2 but unfortunately it cuts my Write and Copy speeds in AIDA64 in half. Setting that to AUTO it wont let me post without the bios suggesting 1.35v VCCIO and 1.4v VCCSA which is pointless as i dont want to go that high. With the 4133 preset i can use 1.4 dram voltage, 1.2 VCCIO and the same for VCCSA so it is a safe option but i was hoping to get something like 17-18-18 4400 working but it seems its impossible. Do you think this is an issue with my Ram sticks or possibly i have a below average IMC? or maybe my board isnt crash hot?

At the moment im trying to get ahold of a g.skill 4600 cl18 kit at a decent price to see if that helps but im a little disappointed that even with two dimm slots and decent memory i still cant get good combination of frequency and timings out of it. Starting to wonder if the EVGA DARK was a better option. If anyone has had any experience with the apex board please let me know your thoughts, thanks.


----------



## Apothysis

Bo55 said:


> Hi all, can someone shed some light here for me please? Happy to have built a new rig 8 months ago with the intention to get the highest memory performance i can get for both gaming and light video editing use.
> 
> Here is what i ended up with
> 
> 9900kf 5.1 @ 1.288v under load AVX 0
> ML360R
> Maximus Apex Xi bios 1401
> G.skill F4-4000C17D-16GTZR
> 
> 
> My issue is that i can only achieve a maximum of 4133 stable using the Raja preset in the bios 17-18-18-38 2T. If i try and experiment with both tight or lose timings and attempt to boot at anything higher than that, i get instant errors in TM5 and BSOD's. Ive tried CL16 4000, Cl18 and Cl19 4200,4300,4400 all at 2T and between 1.4-1.47v and 1.25 VCCIO and 1.275 VCCSA but anything higher than that hits a wall. I can boot at 4400 using only the Maximus tweak set to MODE 2 but unfortunately it cuts my Write and Copy speeds in AIDA64 in half. Setting that to AUTO it wont let me post without the bios suggesting 1.35v VCCIO and 1.4v VCCSA which is pointless as i dont want to go that high. With the 4133 preset i can use 1.4 dram voltage, 1.2 VCCIO and the same for VCCSA so it is a safe option but i was hoping to get something like 17-18-18 4400 working but it seems its impossible. Do you think this is an issue with my Ram sticks or possibly i have a below average IMC? or maybe my board isnt crash hot?
> 
> At the moment im trying to get ahold of a g.skill 4600 cl18 kit at a decent price to see if that helps but im a little disappointed that even with two dimm slots and decent memory i still cant get good combination of frequency and timings out of it. Starting to wonder if the EVGA DARK was a better option. If anyone has had any experience with the apex board please let me know your thoughts, thanks.



The XI Apex laughs at those settings so I highly doubt the board is the issue  I'd say *most* people need above 1.25v io/sa for 4400 MHz and it seems that way from other people posting in this thread with 9900K's as well. You might even need as much as 1.35v! I run 4400 16-16-16-34 on my 9900KS and XI Apex with only 1.25v IO/SA so it's do-able. Sometimes less is also more so for speeds like 4000 you could try 1.2v io/sa instead.

By bios suggesting, do you mean that you have MemOK! enabled? Flip the switch on the mobo to Off.

Screw the preset and start from scratch: Set tRDRD_sg to 6 and _dg to 4, do the same with tWRWR, that should solve your write speed issues.

Try 4400 MT/s with 1.5v DRAM voltage, 1.25v IO/SA. Start with primaries at 18-18-18-38 (try to lower to 17-17-17-36 later). Set tCWL manually to 16 (can help with some post issues). You can very likely set tRRD_S, tRRD_L and tFAW to 4/4/16 (can speed up memtesting).

You can also attempt 4200 17-17-17-36 1T (lower to 16-16-16-34 if do-able) with trace centering enabled.

Work on your primaries first, leave all the secondaries and tertiaries on auto for starters (excluding the ones I mentioned above).


----------



## Bo55

Apothysis said:


> The XI Apex laughs at those settings so I highly doubt the board is the issue  I'd say *most* people need above 1.25v io/sa for 4400 MHz and it seems that way from other people posting in this thread with 9900K's as well. You might even need as much as 1.35v! I run 4400 16-16-16-34 on my 9900KS and XI Apex with only 1.25v IO/SA so it's do-able. Sometimes less is also more so for speeds like 4000 you could try 1.2v io/sa instead.
> 
> By bios suggesting, do you mean that you have MemOK! enabled? Flip the switch on the mobo to Off.
> 
> Screw the preset and start from scratch: Set tRDRD_sg to 6 and _dg to 4, do the same with tWRWR, that should solve your write speed issues.
> 
> Try 4400 MT/s with 1.5v DRAM voltage, 1.25v IO/SA. Start with primaries at 18-18-18-38 (try to lower to 17-17-17-36 later). Set tCWL manually to 16 (can help with some post issues). You can very likely set tRRD_S, tRRD_L and tFAW to 4/4/16 (can speed up memtesting).
> 
> You can also attempt 4200 17-17-17-36 1T (lower to 16-16-16-34 if do-able) with trace centering enabled.
> 
> Work on your primaries first, leave all the secondaries and tertiaries on auto for starters (excluding the ones I mentioned above).


Thanks for the reply. I will give it another shot. Yeah i have MemOk! enabled. The last few runs at 4400 cl18 or attempting to go over had me Clear CMOS to get back into the bios as safe boot wouldnt do it. 4400 cl16! damnn thats nice thats what i was hoping to get with some tweaking. OK i will give it another ago when i get a chance and report back. Much appreciated!


----------



## Apothysis

Bo55 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I will give it another shot. Yeah i have MemOk! enabled. The last few runs at 4400 cl18 or attempting to go over had me Clear CMOS to get back into the bios as safe boot wouldnt do it. 4400 cl16! damnn thats nice thats what i was hoping to get with some tweaking. OK i will give it another ago when i get a chance and report back. Much appreciated!


That feature does more harm than good tbh. Just disable it, the motherboard usually cycles 3 times and then boots up with safe presets. If it doesn't, there's also a safe boot button on the motherboard, it's one of the best features of the board imo. Also, don't expect 4400 16 because on paper my kit is a better bin (3600 15 1.35v) and I run 1.535v for it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bo55 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I will give it another shot. Yeah i have MemOk! enabled. The last few runs at 4400 cl18 or attempting to go over had me Clear CMOS to get back into the bios as safe boot wouldnt do it. 4400 cl16! damnn thats nice thats what i was hoping to get with some tweaking. OK i will give it another ago when i get a chance and report back. Much appreciated!


If you want the car to run, you're gonna hit the throttle!

Here are my voltage settings for 4700 17-17-35 for daily use.

IO=1.35V, SA=1.54V


----------



## slayer6288

Anyone give these bad boys a whirl yet https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb...=4000c15&cm_re=4000c15-_-20-232-978-_-Product they seem like animals waiting to be unleashed.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

slayer6288 said:


> Anyone give these bad boys a whirl yet https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb...=4000c15&cm_re=4000c15-_-20-232-978-_-Product they seem like animals waiting to be unleashed.


These are well binned and recently produced. IMO I prefer 4266C17Q and 4400C18Q if they can be found.


----------



## Bo55

Apothysis said:


> That feature does more harm than good tbh. Just disable it, the motherboard usually cycles 3 times and then boots up with safe presets. If it doesn't, there's also a safe boot button on the motherboard, it's one of the best features of the board imo. Also, don't expect 4400 16 because on paper my kit is a better bin (3600 15 1.35v) and I run 1.535v for it.


Ok well, unfortunately back with some underwhelming but not surprising news. Started from scratch using timings and voltages you suggested, nothing. Motherboard cycled 3 times and couldnt do it. I loaded my usual preset and bam works. Im not sure what else i can do, cheapest option is to swap memory sticks to something better?


----------



## Jpmboy

here's a couple of examples on z370/8700 and 8086K. 3600C15 STICKS AND 4800C18 ROYALS. Significant difference in RTLs with stability data and voltages.
Also current 4400 settings running 24/7 on covid-19 work.


----------



## slayer6288

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> These are well binned and recently produced. IMO I prefer 4266C17Q and 4400C18Q if they can be found.


Well since the 3600c15 kits were capable of big things I wonder what a 4000c15-16-16-36 kit could do.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

slayer6288 said:


> Well since the 3600c15 kits were capable of big things I wonder what a 4000c15-16-16-36 kit could do.


You must pay attention to the binned voltage differences. 3600 15-15-35 is under 1.35V while 4000 15-16-36 is under 1.5V.

Another low freq kit is the 3600C14D-16GTZN (not GTZNB), which runs 3600 14-15 under 1.4V


----------



## slayer6288

True but theres no way my 3600c15 kit would do 4000c16 at 1.5 sooooooo


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

slayer6288 said:


> True but theres no way my 3600c15 kit would do 4000c16 at 1.5 sooooooo


3600C15 kits are A1 PCB should be easy to tighten the times. Besides, my 3600C15 can POST [email protected] It might also be an issue with the IMC.


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> here's a couple of examples on z370/8700 and 8086K. 3600C15 STICKS AND 4800C18 ROYALS. Significant difference in RTLs with stability data and voltages.
> Also current 4400 settings running 24/7 on covid-19 work.


Might I ask what the point of these numbers is? cheers


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Might I ask what the point of these numbers is? cheers


nothing really. Single rank dimms. They are read/page, read->write and write delays (as I think you know)... and no manual tuning done on that rig since (as it is running flat out 24/7 crunching Boinc) - I'll get to it someday. Only focused on 1st and 2nds. Geeze - I figured you'd ask about the RRD value of 3. 

If you want some tweaking info, Alex has a good post on the ROG forum: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?79034-GUIDE-Skylake-Memory-Timings-on-Asus-Motherboards-!

And, in the OP of this thread (from Raja): https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread.html#
...open the spoiler


Edit: ya made me look. These timings were manually set. Auto does the following:


----------



## slayer6288

Is it odd for a 9900k imc to be more unstable at 1.25 vccio and vcssa as opposed to 1.1 vccio 1.15 vccsa when running 4000c16 ram at 1.45 volts? Or is this like my old 5930k and less is more when screwing with the memory.


----------



## Jpmboy

slayer6288 said:


> Is it odd for a 9900k imc to be more unstable at 1.25 vccio and vcssa as opposed to 1.1 vccio 1.15 vccsa when running 4000c16 ram at 1.45 volts? Or is this like my old 5930k and less is more when screwing with the memory.


No it is not odd. It's more common than most think. Signal alignment with the bus channels is usually an inverted "U" in terms of voltage. are you running an overclocked cache also?


----------



## sultanofswing

Interesting thread, Has anyone here messed with or know anything about this kit? 
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236215

They are 18-19-19-39 [email protected] 1.35v @3600

I have had this set for like 4 years or so now, They are B die but I assume bottom barrel B die.
Have them on a Z370 board doing,
16-16-16-36 2T @ 1.45v @3600

I wonder if this kit might get a little bit more out of it? Running 4 sticks so my guess would probably be no.


----------



## slayer6288

Jpmboy said:


> No it is not odd. It's more common than most think. Signal alignment with the bus channels is usually an inverted "U" in terms of voltage. are you running an overclocked cache also?


Yeah 52 all core 50 cache on my 9900k 1.35 rock solid prime95 and occt stable also realbench 8 hours stesstest but I put more weight into the first two. Trying to dial in 4000 on the 3600c15 but part of my problem is I am using 2 diff 2x8 kits to make 32 gig. So its been a pita. Right now all timings auto but 16-17-17-37 4000 1.45 dram 1.1vccio 1.15vccsa seems stable. If this passes I have already confirmed no 1T only 2T at this speed what should I dial in next.


----------



## slayer6288

slayer6288 said:


> Yeah 52 all core 50 cache on my 9900k 1.35 rock solid prime95 and occt stable also realbench 8 hours stesstest but I put more weight into the first two. Trying to dial in 4000 on the 3600c15 but part of my problem is I am using 2 diff 2x8 kits to make 32 gig. So its been a pita. Right now all timings auto but 16-17-17-37 4000 1.45 dram 1.1vccio 1.15vccsa seems stable. If this passes I have already confirmed no 1T only 2T at this speed what should I dial in next.


Whelp 2 hours of google stress test complete so primaries and voltage seem to be locked in now. Time to see what the secondaries can do.


----------



## pox02

Gen. said:


> Hey. Try my settings


thank u ur settings amazing and 35 latency on 4533 stable


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Very good mate. Impressive result on a daisy chain MB.
> 
> Based on your volts, you might be able to try higher frequency.


The Taishi z370 is really good for its little money when it was still on sale. Of course, I tried higher frequencies and the maximum that was obtained on the frequency is 4600Mhz and then, only for short benchmarks. The only small drawback of the taichi z370 is that the memory requires CL 19 above the frequency of 4300Mhz, up to the frequency of 4400Mhz it can CL 17. At least I tested this on several memory sets over the entire usage time, with some sets I ran on Apex X, and all of them were able to CL 17 4500Mhz+)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

fly1ngh1gh said:


> The Taishi z370 is really good for its little money when it was still on sale. Of course, I tried higher frequencies and the maximum that was obtained on the frequency is 4600Mhz and then, only for short benchmarks. The only small drawback of the taichi z370 is that the memory requires CL 19 above the frequency of 4300Mhz, up to the frequency of 4400Mhz it can CL 17. At least I tested this on several memory sets over the entire usage time, with some sets I ran on Apex X, and all of them were able to CL 17 4500Mhz+)


looks like you met the same problem as the z390i phantom gaming that only below 4500 are use-able.


----------



## Apothysis

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3600C15 kits are A1 PCB should be easy to tighten the times. Besides, my 3600C15 can POST [email protected] It might also be an issue with the IMC.



This is false, the 3600C15 exists as either A2 or A0, it is produced on both PCBs. Taiphoon cannot be trusted. I have checked mine physically and they're A2.




slayer6288 said:


> Yeah 52 all core 50 cache on my 9900k 1.35 rock solid prime95 and occt stable also realbench 8 hours stesstest but I put more weight into the first two. Trying to dial in 4000 on the 3600c15 but part of my problem is I am using 2 diff 2x8 kits to make 32 gig. So its been a pita. Right now all timings auto but 16-17-17-37 4000 1.45 dram 1.1vccio 1.15vccsa seems stable. If this passes I have already confirmed no 1T only 2T at this speed what should I dial in next.


 Keep in mind that as you push your RAM overclock it will VERY LIKELY also destabilize your CPU overclock. Personally I have to add another 30 mV to the core voltage of my 9900KS to keep my cpu stable with the tight settings I run (Faster ram = CPU spends less time at idle - Large AVX2-load increases by quite a large margin). Having 50 Cache stable is very rare, even more rare with voltages needed for 52 Core. As a comparison, my 5.3 Core 4.9 Cache can go all day but 50 Cache crashes within 1 minute of Large AVX2.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Apothysis said:


> This is false, the 3600C15 exists as either A2 or A0, it is produced on both PCBs. Taiphoon cannot be trusted. I have checked mine physically and they're A2.


I just checked mine, they were produced in 2017 and they are A1 (dies at the center), probably Gskill switched to A2 layout later.


----------



## Apothysis

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I just checked mine, they were produced in 2017 and they are A1 (dies at the center), probably Gskill switched to A2 layout later.



They both exist and are both actively produced today. I've talked to someone who bought the kit recently (manufactured 2020) and it was not A2.

A0 has dies at the center so I'm not sure what you mean? A1 has a gap in the center because there's a 9th chip-slot for ECC, unused on non-ECC sticks. G.Skill doesn't do A1 at all from what I've heard/read and it doesn't make sense to.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Apothysis said:


> They both exist and are both actively produced today. I've talked to someone who bought the kit recently (manufactured 2020) and it was not A2.
> 
> A0 has dies at the center so I'm not sure what you mean? A1 has a gap in the center because there's a 9th chip-slot for ECC, unused on non-ECC sticks. G.Skill doesn't do A1 at all from what I've heard/read and it doesn't make sense to.


Thanks for the information. I meant the PCB that has dies at the center. Galaxy defines these two PCB as A1 and A2, I followed their rules. It should be the A0 as you mentioned.


----------



## Gen.

Jpmboy said:


> nothing really. Single rank dimms. They are read/page, read->write and write delays (as I think you know)... and no manual tuning done on that rig since (as it is running flat out 24/7 crunching Boinc) - I'll get to it someday. Only focused on 1st and 2nds. Geeze - I figured you'd ask about the RRD value of 3.
> 
> If you want some tweaking info, Alex has a good post on the ROG forum: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?79034-GUIDE-Skylake-Memory-Timings-on-Asus-Motherboards-!
> 
> And, in the OP of this thread (from Raja): https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...intel-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread.html#
> ...open the spoiler
> 
> 
> Edit: ya made me look. These timings were manually set. Auto does the following:


Timings are wrong. If you want the correct values, let me know


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> Timings are wrong. If you want the correct values, let me know


Wrong? But stable. 
post up what you think they should be.


----------



## slayer6288

Apothysis said:


> This is false, the 3600C15 exists as either A2 or A0, it is produced on both PCBs. Taiphoon cannot be trusted. I have checked mine physically and they're A2.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that as you push your RAM overclock it will VERY LIKELY also destabilize your CPU overclock. Personally I have to add another 30 mV to the core voltage of my 9900KS to keep my cpu stable with the tight settings I run (Faster ram = CPU spends less time at idle - Large AVX2-load increases by quite a large margin). Having 50 Cache stable is very rare, even more rare with voltages needed for 52 Core. As a comparison, my 5.3 Core 4.9 Cache can go all day but 50 Cache crashes within 1 minute of Large AVX2.


the 50 cache is rock solid and got the memory rock solid with tight 2nd and 3rd timings with primaries at 16-17-17-37-2t 300-25000 4000mhz 5 hours gsat stable cache has survived 12 hours aida cache stress test 8 hours real bench and small ffts prime 95 and occt my problem the entire time was using too much vccio and vccsa voltage thinking pump more juice will help. nope 1.1 vccio and 1.15 vccsa is all she needs to puuur


----------



## Apothysis

slayer6288 said:


> the 50 cache is rock solid and got the memory rock solid with tight 2nd and 3rd timings with primaries at 16-17-17-37-2t 300-25000 4000mhz 5 hours gsat stable cache has survived 12 hours aida cache stress test 8 hours real bench and small ffts prime 95 and occt my problem the entire time was using too much vccio and vccsa voltage thinking pump more juice will help. nope 1.1 vccio and 1.15 vccsa is all she needs to puuur



Give it an hour of OCCT Large AVX2, it's very, very good at testing cpu, ram and cache together. If that passes, you're all set!


----------



## Gen.

Jpmboy said:


> Wrong? But stable.
> post up what you think they should be.


Firstly, RRD_S cannot be less than 4, since tRRD_S is tied to tBL, and it, in turn, is equal to 8/2.
Secondly, WR should be at least 8 ns, which in your case will be 8ns * 4500/2000 = 18 tacts.

Red - obligatory timings
Blue - desirable

P.S.
Once I already did acceleration on IX APEX CoffeMod (3733C18 Team Group).

tWRPRE=38 (4+CWL+WR) for tWR.
tRDPRE=9 for tRTP.


----------



## Judah R

Hi, just wanted to thank everyone on the forum here for all the great information.
I bought 2 kits of 4400c19 Patriot Ram (4x8 32GB) a few weeks back and this is my first time trying to overclock ram.

I got 2 stable settings that I am happy with.

4000 16-16-16-33
4266 17-18-18-38
+ secondary timing etc.

Voltage Setting

Bios

4000 Ram 1.45v
4266 Ram 1.465v
SA 1.275v
IO 1.275v

Windows/HWinFO64 

4000 Ram 1.44v
4266 RAM 1.456V
SA 1,288v~1.296v
IO 1.312v~1.328v

I am using an Asus ROG Maximus X Formula MB, not an extreme overclocking board, but I am happy with it.
I thought some of my earlier attempts were stable, mainly running MemTest from Karhusoftware that I bought, but I would sometimes get posting errors, and I used TestMem5 v0.12 (Extreme1 @anta777) and would get errors before completion. Now after many many hours of running settings and tests, I feel honestly that these 2 setting are stable.

best proof I got is some screenshots.


----------



## Gen.

Judah R said:


> Hi, just wanted to thank everyone on the forum here for all the great information.
> I bought 2 kits of 4400c19 Patriot Ram (4x8 32GB) a few weeks back and this is my first time trying to overclock ram.
> 
> I got 2 stable settings that I am happy with.
> 
> 4000 16-16-16-33
> 4266 17-18-18-38
> + secondary timing etc.
> 
> Voltage Setting
> 
> Bios
> 
> 4000 Ram 1.45v
> 4266 Ram 1.465v
> SA 1.275v
> IO 1.275v
> 
> Windows/HWinFO64
> 
> 4000 Ram 1.44v
> 4266 RAM 1.456V
> SA 1,288v~1.296v
> IO 1.312v~1.328v
> 
> I am using an Asus ROG Maximus X Formula MB, not an extreme overclocking board, but I am happy with it.
> I thought some of my earlier attempts were stable, mainly running MemTest from Karhusoftware that I bought, but I would sometimes get posting errors, and I used TestMem5 v0.12 (Extreme1 @anta777) and would get errors before completion. Now after many many hours of running settings and tests, I feel honestly that these 2 setting are stable.
> 
> best proof I got is some screenshots.


RRD_S=4
RRD_L=4 (6)
RFC=320 or low.
WTR_L=8
RTP=8
FAW=16

All _dr=0
WRRD_sg=30

And may be:
RDRD_sg=6
WRWR_sg=6
RDRD_dd=6
WRRD_dd=6

RDWR=11 (all, but RDWR_dr=0).

IO-L Offset=14 or 15


----------



## robalm

Gen. said:


> Firstly, RRD_S cannot be less than 4, since tRRD_S is tied to tBL, and it, in turn, is equal to 8/2.
> Secondly, WR should be at least 8 ns, which in your case will be 8ns * 4500/2000 = 18 tacts.
> 
> Red - obligatory timings
> Blue - desirable
> 
> P.S.
> Once I already did acceleration on IX APEX CoffeMod (3733C18 Team Group).
> 
> tWRPRE=38 (4+CWL+WR) for tWR.
> tRDPRE=9 for tRTP.


If the one's you put 0 is not used shouldn't make any difference whatsoever whatever you enter?


----------



## Scorpion667

The 4000c15 kit came in. Stress testing XMP seems ok so far. Haven't seen any reviews on this kit so I'll be the guinea pig.

A2 PCB with temp sensor. Zero thermal pad contact on the two chips closest to center (on both sticks). The other chips are only covered for 30% of the upper portion. With active cooling they stay under 40c at 1.5v however but still not ideal to prioritize heatsink aesthetics over heat dissipation on a high end kit.

I'll post an update once I validate XMP and start pushing them.











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Scorpion667

As someone suggested, the 4000c15 kit is not fantastic since the XMP is already capped on JDEC max volts (1.5v) so useful timings above 4200 are just not there. I am however stressing it at 4200 16-16-16-36 1.45 VDIMM, 1.23IO/SA which I'm pretty happy with. 60k copy with 35.3 latency. I should have splurged for the the 4800c18 kit but I just can't stand those LEDs since the rig is really close to my face. Will post validation in the morning. Still have a lot more experimenting to do since it seems to do better with VDIMM below XMP.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## BLUuuE

Scorpion667 said:


> As someone suggested, the 4000c15 kit is not fantastic since the XMP is already capped on JDEC max volts (1.5v) so useful timings above 4200 are just not there. I am however stressing it at 4200 16-16-16-36 1.45 VDIMM, 1.23IO/SA which I'm pretty happy with. 60k copy with 35.3 latency. I should have splurged for the the 4800c18 kit but I just can't stand those LEDs since the rig is really close to my face. Will post validation in the morning. Still have a lot more experimenting to do since it seems to do better with VDIMM below XMP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Can you do 4000 CL14 at 1.50v?


----------



## Scorpion667

BLUuuE said:


> Can you do 4000 CL14 at 1.50v?




What amount of VCCIO/SA would you suggest for that test? I upgraded from second gen i7 with DDR3 so I'm genuinely trying to get a feel for things!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## munternet

Scorpion667 said:


> What amount of VCCIO/SA would you suggest for that test? I upgraded from second gen i7 with DDR3 so I'm genuinely trying to get a feel for things!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


If you don't want to smash the memory and controller voltages I have found the best solution is to go 1T with trace centering, Mode II and BIOS 1401. I spent a few months on the Gene trying to go max frequency at 2T but nothing seemed as genuinely stable and cool.
Only change I have made is dropping the vccio to 1.05v now 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...emory-stability-thread-1172.html#post28366738

Edit: I started doing a spreadsheet to find the best results across the board but I gave up when I hit the 4133. Everything just fell into place and there was not much point in going further.
You can continue with my spreadsheet or modify it if you want.
I know there is a lot of stuff wrong in there but you learn as you go 
The zipped .ODS file will open with Open Office Calc, free, open source download.


----------



## Scorpion667

Thanks! I just flashed 1401 and will test. Had a hard time booting into Windows with 4000-1t and trace centering enabled but that was on bios 1302.

[edit] oh wow 1401 does a lot better with auto RTL IOL! Also booted fine with 4200c16-1t!![/edit]

So far 4200 16-16-16-36-2t is the best I was able to manage on 1302 with the new kit. 8 hour GSAT passed, as well as TM5 Extreme:


----------



## nick name

Have you guys created a Desktop shortcut to boot directly into UEFI? It's great when testing RAM.

shutdown.exe /r /fw /t 3

The /t is time in seconds. If you don't use /t it takes about 30 seconds to reboot. And you have to give it Administrative rights.


----------



## Salve1412

Hi guys! I've just bought a used Maximus XI Apex on Amazon. I'd like to replace with it my Aorus Master that has given me a lot of trouble regarding memory overclocking: I've already changed the Gigabyte board once with another one identical to it and swapped my previous 9900K for a KS but I couldn't ran at XMP speed my 4x8GB Trident Z 4266MHz CL17 kit with any of these combinations (and of course the kit is in the Master's QVL). Considering that I can return to Amazon my Master until May, that the used Apex is cheaper and that if the latter doesn't work properly I can simply give it back at zero cost, I decided to try it and see how it goes. Since the Apex is a 2-DIMM board I intend to sell back my current RAM and buy a 32GB G.Skill kit of two modules (for example F4-4000C19D-32GTRS). Which overclocking results can I expect from a 32GB kit compared to a 16GB one? I've seen a lot of folks running their RAM at crazy high frequencies in this thread, but the majority of them apparently uses only 16GB. Would my potential overclock be seriously reduced by the double amount of GB? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Scorpion667

Not setting any world records but pretty happy with this setup. Gonna try lowering voltage from here.
CPU/Cache: 5/4.7
SA/IO: 1.23v
RAM: 4200 @ 16-16-16-36-1T, 1.45v


----------



## munternet

Scorpion667 said:


> Not setting any world records but pretty happy with this setup. Gonna try lowering voltage from here.
> CPU/Cache: 5/4.7
> SA/IO: 1.23v
> RAM: 4200 @ 16-16-16-36-1T, 1.45v


Nice one, good Aida scores :thumb:
I'm curious as to whether you can do 4133-15-16-16-34-1T or similar?
I noticed at 4133 on the Gene I was able to do 15 on the IOL-Offset and let the rest train for lower latency, but it might be different for the Apex.


----------



## munternet

nick name said:


> Have you guys created a Desktop shortcut to boot directly into UEFI? It's great when testing RAM.
> 
> shutdown.exe /r /fw /t 3
> 
> The /t is time in seconds. If you don't use /t it takes about 30 seconds to reboot. And you have to give it Administrative rights.


I was doing some research on booting into UEFI bios just now and found this https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...mware-settings-context-menu-windows-10-a.html
It gives full shell integration by right clicking the desktop background 

Edit: Doesn't work for me for some reason??


----------



## Carillo

Zemach said:


> 4800 CL 17 17 17 34 1.575v VCCIO 1.362v VCCSA 1.41250 MT pass 5000%+ TestMem 5 Pass 5 Cyde



Hello! Would you be kind and share your BIOS settings ? I now have the same motherboard and CPU. This CPU and memory kit booted 5000 cl18 on MSI MPEG, so the IMC is strong enough, and the APEX Xi sure is good enough. Im even not able to boot 4700, so there is something im missing in the settings.


----------



## nick name

munternet said:


> I was doing some research on booting into UEFI bios just now and found this https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...mware-settings-context-menu-windows-10-a.html
> It gives full shell integration by right clicking the desktop background
> 
> Edit: Doesn't work for me for some reason??


I just created an actual shortuct on my Desktop. Have you tried that yet?


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> I was doing some research on booting into UEFI bios just now and found this https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...mware-settings-context-menu-windows-10-a.html
> It gives full shell integration by right clicking the desktop background
> 
> Edit: Doesn't work for me for some reason??


I have Brink's reg patch on all ASUS rigs here. Note: It can take up to a minute for the action to complete (especially the first couple of times). So be patient, it does work on the latest win10 distro.
Gigabyte and AsRock have the same function in the guise of an app in their OEM Tools. Mainly because they have implemented bios options for Ultra Fast boot where you really cannot catch the F2 or Del before OS handoff. (at least it is hopeless on My G9 x299 and Taichi Ultimate x470 when UltraFast is selected)


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> Firstly, RRD_S cannot be less than 4, since tRRD_S is tied to tBL, and it, in turn, is equal to 8/2.
> Secondly, WR should be at least 8 ns, which in your case will be 8ns * 4500/2000 = 18 tacts.
> 
> Red - obligatory timings
> Blue - desirable
> 
> P.S.
> Once I already did acceleration on IX APEX CoffeMod (3733C18 Team Group).
> 
> tWRPRE=38 (4+CWL+WR) for tWR.
> tRDPRE=9 for tRTP.


I'll give 'em a try. D1 RTLs and IOLs are not relevant with 2 SS dimms, right? RDD_s has a min of 4 ticks on many configs supposedly, but as I noted in a reply above, That's the timing no one has asked about for months. These are Boltz 20nm ICs. Can't get 3 to work on my 17nm armstrong ICs with the same CPU and board. Strange.


----------



## nick name

Jpmboy said:


> I have Brink's reg patch on all ASUS rigs here. Note: It can take up to a minute for the action to complete (especially the first couple of times). So be patient, it does work on the latest win10 distro.
> Gigabyte and AsRock have the same function in the guise of an app in their OEM Tools. Mainly because they have implemented bios options for Ultra Fast boot where you really cannot catch the F2 or Del before OS handoff. (at least it is hopeless on My G9 x299 and Taichi Ultimate x470 when UltraFast is selected)


Can you add the /t flag to speed it up?


----------



## Jpmboy

nick name said:


> Can you add the /t flag to speed it up?


If I could fish out the reg entry for the context menu - probably.


----------



## djgar

Jpmboy said:


> I have Brink's reg patch on all ASUS rigs here. Note: It can take up to a minute for the action to complete (especially the first couple of times). So be patient, it does work on the latest win10 distro.
> Gigabyte and AsRock have the same function in the guise of an app in their OEM Tools. Mainly because they have implemented bios options for Ultra Fast boot where you really cannot catch the F2 or Del before OS handoff. (at least it is hopeless on My G9 x299 and Taichi Ultimate x470 when UltraFast is selected)


Just curious, how is this different from setting the firmware's option to boot into UEFI? Seems to work for my Strix X99 Gaming. At least that system partition says EFI.


----------



## Gen.

Jpmboy said:


> I'll give 'em a try. D1 RTLs and IOLs are not relevant with 2 SS dimms, right? RDD_s has a min of 4 ticks on many configs supposedly, but as I noted in a reply above, That's the timing no one has asked about for months. These are Boltz 20nm ICs. Can't get 3 to work on my 17nm armstrong ICs with the same CPU and board. Strange.


A value RRD_S=3 will only reduce system performance. Minimum 4.


----------



## Veii

@Gen. can you explain to me about tWR 8ns part a bit more
With what does it depend to be 8ns or why exactly 8ns ?
Is it a multiple of something else? 
as required ns delay varies between speeds, it has to have a connection with something else :thinking:


----------



## Carillo

Hey boys. I reach out for help. I have an 8086K and a set of Patriot Viper 4400 cl19 that I previously used on a MSI MPEG motherboard. I was stable at 4800 cl17, and also managed to boot 5000mhz ... I've now got an APEX Xi, and I know it's the best thing out there, but still I can't even boot 4700.... . Is there anyone who can give me some tips on what settings I need to set in order to boot 4600 plus? I know both the IMC and the b.die a2 sticks have no problem to handle this..The problem is probably ME


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> Hey boys. I reach out for help. I have an 8086K and a set of Patriot Viper 4400 cl19 that I previously used on a MSI MPEG motherboard. I was stable at 4800 cl17, and also managed to boot 5000mhz ... I've now got an APEX Xi, and I know it's the best thing out there, but still I can't even boot 4700.... . Is there anyone who can give me some tips on what settings I need to set in order to boot 4600 plus? I know both the IMC and the b.die a2 sticks have no problem to handle this..The problem is probably ME


What BIOS are you running?
A few people have said 1302 is better for high frequency memory on the Gene XI which seems to correspond to the Apex XI


----------



## SgtRotty

Scorpion667 said:


> The 4000c15 kit came in. Stress testing XMP seems ok so far. Haven't seen any reviews on this kit so I'll be the guinea pig.
> 
> A2 PCB with temp sensor. Zero thermal pad contact on the two chips closest to center (on both sticks). The other chips are only covered for 30% of the upper portion. With active cooling they stay under 40c at 1.5v however but still not ideal to prioritize heatsink aesthetics over heat dissipation on a high end kit.
> 
> I'll post an update once I validate XMP and start pushing them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Can you post a pic of xmp timings at default 4000mhz please?? I see primary is 15-16-16-36, I was curious about secondary timings, and RTL IOL?


----------



## The Pook

SgtRotty said:


> Can you post a pic of xmp timings at default 4000mhz please?? I see primary is 15-16-16-36, I was curious about secondary timings, and RTL IOL?



XMP doesn't set those timings, your motherboard does. 

the only timings XMP sets is CAS/RCD/RP/RAS/RC/FAW/RDDS/RRDL/WR/WTRS (the ones that show in Thaiphoon Burner).


----------



## Apothysis

Carillo said:


> Hey boys. I reach out for help. I have an 8086K and a set of Patriot Viper 4400 cl19 that I previously used on a MSI MPEG motherboard. I was stable at 4800 cl17, and also managed to boot 5000mhz ... I've now got an APEX Xi, and I know it's the best thing out there, but still I can't even boot 4700.... . Is there anyone who can give me some tips on what settings I need to set in order to boot 4600 plus? I know both the IMC and the b.die a2 sticks have no problem to handle this..The problem is probably ME



Make sure you manually set 2T and Maximus Mode 1. You also probably want to set tCWL to an even value just below CL (for CL17 set tCWL 16 etc, for CL16 try 16 or 14 etc), this has fixed most of the post-issues for me. Mode 2 usually stops working at 4400, after that you need manual tweaking but for 4600 and and above I'd definitely use Mode 1.


----------



## Apothysis

Decided to re-do my fan setup and get rid of iCue entirely (previously had it installed but disabled on startup). Getting rid of the Corsair-services entirely gave me another 0.4 ns :thumb:

Same kit and setup as before, F4-3600C15-16GTZ @ 1.535v, 1.25v IO/SA. Stable and solid daily setup (proof in previous post).


----------



## Gen.

Veii said:


> @Gen. can you explain to me about tWR 8ns part a bit more
> With what does it depend to be 8ns or why exactly 8ns ?
> Is it a multiple of something else?
> as required ns delay varies between speeds, it has to have a connection with something else :thinking:


Hey.
Oh sure.
I don’t know if you can understand me correctly. I use Google translate.
CL - time of moving data from sensitive amplifiers to data bus,
and WR is the time it takes for the data to move from the data bus to the sensitive amplifiers.
It is recommended to perform CL = WR (with odd CL, WR will be + -1 (count the time in nanoseconds and round up). 8 ns is the unit at which it is better not to go lower. For example, 4000 CL16 is a great time. WR will be also 16 measures and 8 ns.
It is not reasonable to simply execute CL16, WR = 12 in view of the occurrence of errors. I checked from personal experience that WR will not give an increase, but the light one can become unstable.
Also don't forget WR = 15 ns by Jedec.
And even AMD recommended not lowering it below 8 ns (although this Yuri 1usmus apparently ignores) so that there are no errors.
In short, I’ll say that if the time to move data from the data bus to sensitive amplifiers arrives earlier, he simply will have nowhere to move this data, since the CL time has not yet arrived, because of this, errors are often clarified due to the low WR by relation CL.


----------



## 1usmus

Gen. said:


> Hey.
> Oh sure.
> I don’t know if you can understand me correctly. I use Google translate.
> CL - time of moving data from sensitive amplifiers to data bus,
> and WR is the time it takes for the data to move from the data bus to the sensitive amplifiers.
> It is recommended to perform CL = WR (with odd CL, WR will be + -1 (count the time in nanoseconds and round up). 8 ns is the unit at which it is better not to go lower. For example, 4000 CL16 is a great time. WR will be also 16 measures and 8 ns.
> It is not reasonable to simply execute CL16, WR = 12 in view of the occurrence of errors. I checked from personal experience that WR will not give an increase, but the light one can become unstable.
> Also don't forget WR = 15 ns by Jedec.
> And even AMD recommended not lowering it below 8 ns (although this Yuri 1usmus apparently ignores) so that there are no errors.
> In short, I’ll say that if the time to move data from the data bus to sensitive amplifiers arrives earlier, he simply will have nowhere to move this data, since the CL time has not yet arrived, because of this, errors are often clarified due to the low WR by relation CL.


Dear *anta777*, you don't have a test stand with the Ryzen processor, but you are questioning the practice results. I advise you not to do that.


----------



## alexander1986

hello all, not sure I can ask here so forgive me if wrong place to ask, but what is the best option to get dual rank 32 gb config running at 4000+ mhz with decent timings, 
was thinking one of these two options,


1. maximus XI hero 4 dimm board with 4x8gb gskill 4133 17-17-17-37 kit and just run XMP and perhaps try to tweak timings if possible,

or

2. maximus XI gene 2 dimm board with 2x16gb gskill 3600-16-16-16-36 kit and try to OC to 4000+mhz with good timings if possible


the kits are on the QVL lists on both asus and gskill site, and I would prefer not having to OC but just pop in the 4x8gb kit and run XMP without issues, 
how likely is this to work at XMP out of the box with no problems you think? 

as far as I can see the maximus hero is T-Topology and *should* be able to handle 4 dimms in dual rank config at 4133 mhz, but IDK for sure of course, cpu would be a 9900K or 9700K...


would appreciate any answer and feedback, cheers!


----------



## Zemach

Apothysis said:


> Make sure you manually set 2T and Maximus Mode 1. You also probably want to set tCWL to an even value just below CL (for CL17 set tCWL 16 etc, for CL16 try 16 or 14 etc), this has fixed most of the post-issues for me. Mode 2 usually stops working at 4400, after that you need manual tweaking but for 4600 and and above I'd definitely use Mode 1.


I can boot 4933 in both mode 1 and mode 2 and if adding more than 4933 I have to use mode 2 for boot and I have to turn off MemOK and use VCCIO no more than 1.35v to boot and I can boot up to 5200 cl 17 in mode 2. As for mode 1, I cannot boot more than 4933.


----------



## Apothysis

Zemach said:


> I can boot 4933 in both mode 1 and mode 2 and if adding more than 4933 I have to use mode 2 for boot and I have to turn off MemOK and use VCCIO no more than 1.35v to boot and I can boot up to 5200 cl 17 in mode 2. As for mode 1, I cannot boot more than 4933.


 Look at your RTL/IOL, that's not Mode 2. It automatically switches to Mode 1 instead (by the looks of it, at least). It doesn't always do this properly.

I can boot 4400 @ Mode 2 properly, at 4600 and above it posts with Mode 2 but RTL/IOL are worse (like mode 1). I can't post 4500/4533 without setting Mode 1 manually. I think there's a breakpoint where at 4500/4533 it attempts to boot Mode 2, nearly succeeds but fails and thus doesn't post while at 4600+ it fails outright and defaults to Mode 1.


It's possible that the mode switches more things than just RTL/IOL under the hood but this is the only "observable" difference I've found.


----------



## Zemach

Apothysis said:


> Look at your RTL/IOL, that's not Mode 2. It automatically switches to Mode 1 instead (by the looks of it, at least). It doesn't always do this properly.
> 
> I can boot 4400 @ Mode 2 properly, at 4600 and above it posts with Mode 2 but RTL/IOL are worse (like mode 1). I can't post 4500/4533 without setting Mode 1 manually. I think there's a breakpoint where at 4500/4533 it attempts to boot Mode 2, nearly succeeds but fails and thus doesn't post while at 4600+ it fails outright and defaults to Mode 1.
> 
> 
> It's possible that the mode switches more things than just RTL/IOL under the hood but this is the only "observable" difference I've found.


If I set mode 1, I won't be able to boot at all, only 4933 can be done, but if I set mode 2, I can boot immediately at one time and the point I noticed is that if I set mode 1 to 4933 RTL d1 will At 120, if I set mode 2, the RTL d1 will be 100, and if it is greater than 4933 then I still use mode 1 dbug. The code will be 23, and in the image below, I'm active at 4600 cl17 mode 2.


----------



## Apothysis

Zemach said:


> If I set mode 1, I won't be able to boot at all, only 4933 can be done, but if I set mode 2, I can boot immediately at one time and the point I noticed is that if I set mode 1 to 4933 RTL d1 will At 120, if I set mode 2, the RTL d1 will be 100, and if it is greater than 4933 then I still use mode 1 dbug. The code will be 23, and in the image below, I'm active at 4600 cl17 mode 2.



As I said previously proper mode 2 can be achieved with other adjustments. Enabling Real Trip Latency-training for instance will help with proper RTL/IOL like yours.


Mode 1 is recommended by people like [email protected] over at HWBot on the XI Apex - I'm not going to argue against that and hence my suggestion. The person asking for advice was pursuing 4700, not 5200.


----------



## Zemach

Apothysis said:


> As I said previously proper mode 2 can be achieved with other adjustments. Enabling Real Trip Latency-training for instance will help with proper RTL/IOL like yours.
> 
> 
> Mode 1 is recommended by people like [email protected] over at HWBot on the XI Apex - I'm not going to argue against that and hence my suggestion. The person asking for advice was pursuing 4700, not 5200.


What I said means that mode 1 or 2 can be all booted. It doesn't matter whether mode 1 or mode 2, with a speed not higher than 4933.


----------



## Veii

Gen. said:


> Hey.
> Oh sure.
> I don’t know if you can understand me correctly. I use Google translate.
> CL - time of moving data from sensitive amplifiers to data bus,
> and WR is the time it takes for the data to move from the data bus to the sensitive amplifiers.
> It is recommended to perform CL = WR (with odd CL, WR will be + -1 (count the time in nanoseconds and round up). 8 ns is the unit at which it is better not to go lower. For example, 4000 CL16 is a great time. WR will be also 16 measures and 8 ns.
> It is not reasonable to simply execute CL16, WR = 12 in view of the occurrence of errors. I checked from personal experience that WR will not give an increase, but the light one can become unstable.
> Also don't forget WR = 15 ns by Jedec.
> And even AMD recommended not lowering it below 8 ns (although this Yuri 1usmus apparently ignores) so that there are no errors.
> In short, I’ll say that if the time to move data from the data bus to sensitive amplifiers arrives earlier, he simply will have nowhere to move this data, since the CL time has not yet arrived, because of this, errors are often clarified due to the low WR by relation CL.
> 
> 
> 1usmus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear *anta777*, you don't have a test stand with the Ryzen processor, but you are questioning the practice results. I advise you not to do that.
Click to expand...

1usmus, i think - correct me please,
Abuses DRAM Heterogeneity, because of the recommended tRFC on the presets ~ to what i can see just by watching
Thank you @Gen. for the explanation, it helps 
To my understanding, you don't have to go the "safe and stable" route according to JEDEC or AMD
While both are right, "normally" that's what you should do, and i understand now the reason for it

My question was answered, thank you 
Yes, having "not understanding" methods ~ doesn't mean they are wrong
Yuri, do you have a bit of time to point me a bit in the right direction when to go lower with tWR
Would you consider it reasonable go with tCL 12 and tWR 10, or under 12 it makes more issues than it helps ?

I'd have one more question about tWTR_S/_L , mostly tWTR_L 
Have seen combinations of 4,8 - 4,12 - 5,12 - 3,8 - 4,4 
I am not entirely sure if there is a simple rule for density amount and dimms amount
Or it's just the delay between W&R - which only exists soo cells can be recharged in time :thinking:


----------



## Jpmboy

djgar said:


> Just curious, how is this different from setting the firmware's option to boot into UEFI? Seems to work for my Strix X99 Gaming. At least that system partition says EFI.


I think that setting the firmware to post to bios and not boot to windows is an "all-the-time" toggle, right? The context menu option is an option. The windows menu Restart still works normally.


Gen. said:


> A value RRD_S=3 will only reduce system performance. Minimum 4.


That's the supposed chipset min. Setting 3 does not reduce performance assuming the chipset subs in it's min. B UT, that is not the case here. 3 does not reduce performance, there is no timing clash. It is likely running 4 but you cannot know this without using a special hardware (socket) tool.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

alexander1986 said:


> hello all, not sure I can ask here so forgive me if wrong place to ask, but what is the best option to get dual rank 32 gb config running at 4000+ mhz with decent timings,
> was thinking one of these two options,
> 
> 
> 1. maximus XI hero 4 dimm board with 4x8gb gskill 4133 17-17-17-37 kit and just run XMP and perhaps try to tweak timings if possible,
> 
> or
> 
> 2. maximus XI gene 2 dimm board with 2x16gb gskill 3600-16-16-16-36 kit and try to OC to 4000+mhz with good timings if possible
> 
> 
> the kits are on the QVL lists on both asus and gskill site, and I would prefer not having to OC but just pop in the 4x8gb kit and run XMP without issues,
> how likely is this to work at XMP out of the box with no problems you think?
> 
> as far as I can see the maximus hero is T-Topology and *should* be able to handle 4 dimms in dual rank config at 4133 mhz, but IDK for sure of course, cpu would be a 9900K or 9700K...
> 
> 
> would appreciate any answer and feedback, cheers!


You need to buy 4x8GB kit in order to apply XMP profile.

The entry-level Maximus XI HERO can surely handle 4x8GB b-die @4500, I have seen people boot 4600C17 on XI Extreme.

For 2 dimm boards the best option is Ballistix MAX 2X16GB 4400 or 4000


----------



## Gen.

1usmus said:


> Dear *anta777*, you don't have a test stand with the Ryzen processor, but you are questioning the practice results. I advise you not to do that.


Yuri, I'm sorry, but I'm not Andrew, if you thought about it


----------



## Gen.

Jpmboy said:


> That's the supposed chipset min. Setting 3 does not reduce performance assuming the chipset subs in it's min. B UT, that is not the case here. 3 does not reduce performance, there is no timing clash. It is likely running 4 but you cannot know this without using a special hardware (socket) tool.


I tested with RRD_S=3 and FAW=12, my tm5 even lasted 30 minutes longer, compared to 4 and 16, respectively


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> I tested with RRD_S=3 and FAW=12, my tm5 even lasted 30 minutes longer, compared to 4 and 16, respectively


 I'm working on your timings right now. The long tWR and tWL really hurt the write and copy performance, but I'm lowering them to 12. Not really tested stability yet. Hopefully some prelim data tonight. Note, CKE pulse width is not really relevant since that governs wake from rest, which these dimms do not do. Also, Any RTL D1 values the same... tRTP at 6 vs 9 (always better).
Will post up results. Ya know, the stay-at-home thing makes for "idle" time. 
What's "TM5"?


----------



## Gen.

Hey. I tried 4266 16-16. Now I'm trying 4300 16-16


----------



## Gen.

@Jpmboy tm5 - TestMem5.


----------



## Jpmboy

"lasted longer" is good?


----------



## Veii

Jpmboy said:


> "lasted longer" is good?


means it was slower to test, soo memory perf is worse


----------



## Gen.

Veii said:


> means it was slower to test, soo memory perf is worse


Yes! RRD_S=4, FAW=16 2 hour 58 min, RRD_S=3, FAW=12 - ~ 3 hour 30 min.


----------



## Jpmboy

Here's what I'm seeing. Slight improvement in Read, loss of Write perf (as expected with higher tWR), same copy, and Latency is pretty close to "better" but will vary from 34.7 to 35.2. Not tested stability. Same performance in AID with 3/5 and faw at 12, vs 4/6 and 16. MIcron published a Paper on Faw some years ago, and found that lowering this improves I/O and block transit. (at 4x tRDD_s)
I don't use TM5 so I have no idea what aspect of performance in measures. You guys really need to add your rigs to your signature block.
Bunch of big pictures:
edit: oh geeze, you are talking about 1usmus' Ryzen memory thing? eh, decent for stability.


----------



## Veii

Gen. said:


> Yes! RRD_S=4, FAW=16 2 hour 58 min, RRD_S=3, FAW=12 - ~ 3 hour 30 min.


Remains to test tFAW 12 with normal RRD_S 4 

In case you didn't see it
Do you have any explanation for how to work with tRDW_L ?
i see it often as packages of 4,8 - 4,12 - 3-8, 4-14 
I haven't found anything useful as to how people get up with this results (tRDWS and tRDWL)


----------



## Jpmboy

Veii said:


> Remains to test tFAW 12 with normal RRD_S 4
> 
> In case you didn't see it
> Do you have any explanation for how to work with tRDW_L ?
> i see it often as packages of 4,8 - 4,12 - 3-8, 4-14
> I haven't found anything useful as to how people get up with this results (tRDWS and tRDWL)


 tRDW_L ? Do you mean RRD_L or WTR_L?

I'm sure you guys know this, but changes to the delays with a "_dr" etc, are not operating timings on single rank dimms. different rank (dr), different group (dg), same rank (sg) etc. dd is different dimm. On a 2 DIMM board with SS, SR dimms, D1 is not operative.
The actually (working) RRD_s is not knowable at, only what we set in bios can be reported to the OS. tFAW at 12 works fine here


----------



## Veii

Jpmboy said:


> tRDW_L ? Do you mean RRD_L or WTR_L?
> 
> I'm sure you guys know this, but changes to the delays with a "_dr" etc, are not operating timings on single rank dimms. different rank (dr), different group (dg), same rank (sg) etc. dd is different dimm. On a 2 DIMM board with SS, SR dimms, D1 is not operative.
> The actually (working) RRD_s is not knowable at, only what we set in bios can be reported to the OS. tFAW at 12 works fine here


i mean WTR_L and WTR_S oops


----------



## Jpmboy

Veii said:


> i mean WTR_L and WTR_S oops


There's two guides in the OP of this thread. tWTR_L can be left on auto, only the _S (short) is important. It's min is like RDD_s. 4 clocks. :blinksmil


----------



## Veii

Jpmboy said:


> There's two guides in the OP of this thread. tWTR_L can be left on auto, only the _S (short) is important. It's min is like RDD_s. 4 clocks. :blinksmil


Auto doesn't help me 
It's different between users and kits - would need to find out why 
Can't count on bios prediction when you go full manual mode
But thank you


----------



## alexander1986

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to buy 4x8GB kit in order to apply XMP profile.
> 
> The entry-level Maximus XI HERO can surely handle 4x8GB b-die @4500, I have seen people boot 4600C17 on XI Extreme.
> 
> For 2 dimm boards the best option is Ballistix MAX 2X16GB 4400 or 4000



sounds good, btw, this might be hard question to answer but, would you say dual rank config (4x8, 4x4, 2x16gb and so on) at ~4000-4266 mhz with decent timings would be better overall in terms of latency and perf vs single rank (2x8gb) with higher frequency like ~4400-4800 mhz at also decent timings?


I understand dual rank should always be stronger at the same frequency and timing for example, but is there like a cutoff where single rank at higher frequency will be a lot better than lower clocked dual rank you think?


mostly asking because from what I can tell anyway, dual rank is supposedly a lot harder to reach very high frequency on compared to single rank configs, again there might not be an easy answer to this and most people seem to go for single rank configs at as high frequency as possible, 

probably because its easier to achieve, but I figured getting a dual rank config at something like 4100-4200 mhz with decent timings like cl16-17 could perhaps be as strong or stronger even than single rank configs at ~4500mhz with the same timings, because of the interleaving benefits from dual rank and so on?


if that makes any sense? thanks again !


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

alexander1986 said:


> sounds good, btw, this might be hard question to answer but, would you say dual rank config (4x8, 4x4, 2x16gb and so on) at ~4000-4266 mhz with decent timings would be better overall in terms of latency and perf vs single rank (2x8gb) with higher frequency like ~4400-4800 mhz at also decent timings?
> 
> 
> I understand dual rank should always be stronger at the same frequency and timing for example, but is there like a cutoff where single rank at higher frequency will be a lot better than lower clocked dual rank you think?
> 
> 
> mostly asking because from what I can tell anyway, dual rank is supposedly a lot harder to reach very high frequency on compared to single rank configs, again there might not be an easy answer to this and most people seem to go for single rank configs at as high frequency as possible,
> 
> probably because its easier to achieve, but I figured getting a dual rank config at something like 4100-4200 mhz with decent timings like cl16-17 could perhaps be as strong or stronger even than single rank configs at ~4500mhz with the same timings, because of the interleaving benefits from dual rank and so on?
> 
> 
> if that makes any sense? thanks again !


Dual rank in most cases means both sides have dies on them. Considering the circuit, dual rank dimm have more equal signal access to both rows of dies for one channel, while for 4dimm boards with single rank dimms, it is hard for signal to get to both rows at the same time.

However, comparing 4x8GB and 2x16GB, single ranks have larger areas to dissipate the heat, thus dual rank will have more heat on one dimm, so the max volt might be lower for dual rank than single rank.

If 32GB is solid need and you want 2 dimm boards, two 16GB single rank memory should be the best choice (eg. Ballistix Max 2x16GB).

The OC ability is also determined by the MB manufacture that whether this die type has been "unlocked", if you use any AUTOs in the timing.


----------



## munternet

Dropping tWR to 8 didn't seem too detrimental... Got it as low as 6 but noticed slight deterioration.
A quick TM5 tested stable
tRFC can be dropped but doesn't offer any rewards


----------



## lpittman

Is it possible to get memory to test without ever hitting an error?

I left Karhu running over night and it made just over 13,000% - which is obviously good. However it made me wonder if you can ever get this to run indefinitely.


----------



## The Pook

lpittman said:


> Is it possible to get memory to test without ever hitting an error?
> 
> I left Karhu running over night and it made just over 13,000% - which is obviously good. However it made me wonder if you can ever get this run indefinitely.



stable RAM should never error.


----------



## lpittman

The Pook said:


> stable RAM should never error.


That's what I figured. Thanks!


----------



## Dim0n527

*Hi from Russia to all*
_What do you think about my dram oc. I'm very sad with RCD 19, 17 and 18 unstable on any voltages.
CPU @5100MHz Ring @4800MHz Adaptive voltage 1.264-1.312V LLC 5
DRAM @4500MHz 17-19-19-28-296 2T 1.472V. VCCIO 1.240-1.256V VCCSA 1.360-1.368V
F4-4000C17D-16GTRS
ASUS Z370 ROG MAXIMUS X APEX_


----------



## Jpmboy

Dim0n527 said:


> *Hi from Russia to all*
> _What do you think about my dram oc. I'm very sad with RCD 19, 17 and 18 unstable on any voltages.
> CPU @5100MHz Ring @4800MHz Adaptive voltage 1.264-1.312V LLC 5
> DRAM @4500MHz 17-19-19-28-296 2T 1.472V VCCIO 1.240-1.256V VCCSA 1.360-1.368V
> F4-4000C17D-16GTRS_


Looks good, tho if that *really is 1.472V VCCIO* I'd back off what ever it takes to get that down in the 1.3V range. Ya know, I'm a "smoke-em-if-you-got-em" guy... but that level VCCIO for a 24/7 setting is just too high.


----------



## Dim0n527

Jpmboy said:


> Looks good, tho if that *really is 1.472V VCCIO* I'd back off what ever it takes to get that down in the 1.3V range. Ya know, I'm a "smoke-em-if-you-got-em" guy... but that level VCCIO for a 24/7 setting is just too high.


No, it's DRAM Voltage. VCCIO 1.240-1.256V. You can look it in my screenshoot =)


----------



## Jpmboy

Dim0n527 said:


> No, it's DRAM Voltage. VCCIO 1.240-1.256V. You can look it in my screenshoot =)


Thanks! Enjoy the rig! :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

Veii said:


> Auto doesn't help me
> *It's different between users and kits - would need to find out why
> Can't count on bios prediction when you go full manual mode*
> But thank you


And certainly different in execution on Ryzen chiplet rigs (for many internode reasons). 


munternet said:


> Dropping tWR to 8 didn't seem too detrimental... Got it as low as 6 but noticed slight deterioration.
> A quick TM5 tested stable
> tRFC can be dropped but doesn't offer any rewards


Did you notice any performance improvements? 


lpittman said:


> Is it possible to get memory to test without ever hitting an error?
> I left Karhu running over night and it made just over 13,000% - which is obviously good. However it made me wonder if you can ever get this to run indefinitely.


See The Pook. 

__________________________________________________

*Tried that TM5* on this big-boy pants rig () which I know is 2h GSAT stable. The standard test on 64GB completed in 45min. Eh, GSAT is still my preferred way to go. Hopefully you guys give up on using this as a measure of performance (via time-to-complete).


----------



## Jpmboy

Also tested on this rig using a known stable ram configuration already posted. 5 cycles in 20min? Seems like a short test.
I still recommend GSAT on blue or red rigs. I mean, it is used to validate huge server farms, not just google's farm sites.


----------



## munternet

Jpmboy said:


> Also tested on this rig using a known stable ram configuration already posted. 5 cycles in 20min? Seems like a short test.
> I still recommend GSAT on blue or red rigs. I mean, it is used to validate huge server farms, not just google's farm sites.


I still like the TestMem5 for finding errors quickly while speed tuning the ram  and GSAT after it's complete 

As for the tWR difference between 8 and 16....

5 passes Aida64 cache and memory benchmarks added together then divided by 5 to get the average for each of the 2 settings.

tWR 16 excels slightly in the read while tWR 8 excels slightly in copy. The other two results, write and latency, being almost identical.
Results were stable and consistent.

Edit: Tried some others also. tWR 6 was a bit inconsistent so I moved it aside.
Yellow for best and pink for worst scores.


----------



## blodflekk

I think Karhu is junk personally. I've passed many hours with it, still get crashes in games and fails HCI memtest under 200%. I really don't feel there is a better testing option than HCI memtest, it just takes forever. Also I'm on broadwell-e if thats at all relevant.


----------



## rares495

blodflekk said:


> I think Karhu is junk personally. I've passed many hours with it, still get crashes in games and fails HCI memtest under 200%. I really don't feel there is a better testing option than HCI memtest, it just takes forever. Also I'm on broadwell-e if thats at all relevant.


You need to enable cache in the Advanced tab when testing with Karhu, then it becomes the same thing as HCI just a thousand times faster. You can reach 10000% coverage with Karhu in around 1h 30min whereas it would take like 3 days with HCI.

Though the real test will always be 1 week/month of daily use without errors. You can pass all the benchmarks and stability tools you want but it's all for nought if you can't use the damn thing.

Three or four BSODs per year are inconsequential, though.


----------



## munternet

rares495 said:


> You need to enable cache in the Advanced tab when testing with Karhu, then it becomes the same thing as HCI just a thousand times faster. You can reach 10000% coverage with Karhu in around 1h 30min whereas it would take like 3 days with HCI.
> 
> Though the real test will always be 1 week/month of daily use without errors. You can pass all the benchmarks and stability tools you want but it's all for nought if you can't use the damn thing.
> 
> Three or four BSODs per year are inconsequential, though.


Not sure I agree with the BSODs being inconsequential? I wouldn't expect any once tested and stable.


----------



## rares495

munternet said:


> Not sure I agree with the BSODs being inconsequential? I wouldn't expect any once tested and stable.


There's no such thing as 100% guaranteed stability when running the memory out of spec. You'd have to leave Karhu running for like a year to be able to say it's 99.9% stable, but never true 100%.

I saw an error at 22000% Karhu, which is something you'd never normally catch because one does not leave HCI running for 6 straight days to hit 22000%. Most people aim for 1000%-2000% tops and that takes around 10-12h. Karhu does 1000% in 10 minutes and the gold standard is 10000%(1-2h)


----------



## blodflekk

I always aim for 1000% in HCI memtest and in my rig which is 32GB I can get that in 7-8hours. I did follow the advice in the sticky for Karhu ram test and it was just way too easy to pass. It is significantly faster. However like the others have said when I'm stable, which for me is 1000% of HCI memtest, I don't get crashes or bsod's at all.


----------



## rares495

blodflekk said:


> I always aim for 1000% in HCI memtest and in my rig which is 32GB I can get that in 7-8hours. I did follow the advice in the sticky for Karhu ram test and it was just way too easy to pass. It is significantly faster. However like the others have said when I'm stable, which for me is 1000% of HCI memtest, I don't get crashes or bsod's at all.


Ok, but you're not performing memory-intensive tasks. You're just browsing or gaming or doing whatever so BSODs are unlikely to occur.


----------



## blodflekk

rares495 said:


> Ok, but you're not performing memory-intensive tasks. You're just browsing or gaming or doing whatever so BSODs are unlikely to occur.


Well thats just not true. If I'm unstable a game is enough to bsod. I've seen it before if I've been tinkering with timings and haven't stressed it first.


----------



## rares495

blodflekk said:


> Well thats just not true. If I'm unstable a game is enough to bsod. I've seen it before if I've been tinkering with timings and haven't stressed it first.


Sure, but what's "stable" in a game might not be "stable" in a stress test and vice versa. Given enough time and the right context, any overclocked memory will crash.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> I still like the TestMem5 for finding errors quickly while speed tuning the ram  and GSAT after it's complete
> 
> As for the tWR difference between 8 and 16....
> 
> 5 passes Aida64 cache and memory benchmarks added together then divided by 5 to get the average for each of the 2 settings.
> 
> tWR 16 excels slightly in the read while tWR 8 excels slightly in copy. The other two results, write and latency, being almost identical.
> Results were stable and consistent.
> 
> Edit: Tried some others also. tWR 6 was a bit inconsistent so I moved it aside.
> Yellow for best and pink for worst scores.


So tWr and tCWL (write recovery and write latency) kinda work in concert. If possible, try lowering tCWL with tWR. You know, like with most timings these (or nearly all - except for the trace times) are either limited by or define timing windows for operational groups - which further depend on the data spread in ranks, banks, groups and even dimms. For several primary and secondary timings changing one really needs to be followed by changing it's "upstream" and "downstream" windows or dependent timings. tWR is one of those. Like RAS window - needs to be open for the time it takes to complete 3 operations (cas, rcd and rtp). Roughly 4 ticks below CAS is usually optimal if the sticks and IMC can manage it that tight.


blodflekk said:


> I think Karhu is junk personally. I've passed many hours with it, still get crashes in games and fails HCI memtest under 200%. I really don't feel there is a better testing option than HCI memtest, it just takes forever. Also I'm on broadwell-e if thats at all relevant.


HCi is very good for 8 dimm broadwell, but geeze, it takes geologic time to progress. That's why I went to GSAT. 64GB and a 6950X was just watching grass grow. 


munternet said:


> Not sure I agree with the BSODs being inconsequential? I wouldn't expect any once tested and stable.


^^ True. But once you do your best, the more likely reason for a BSOD is not ram, or cpu OC. Code is more buggy than the hardware at that point. 


______________________________________________________________
Oh, and for TM5... same rig, same timings, just did a reboot after a night of rest... time to complete varied by 13%. So, @Veii @Gen. I would NOT use this program as a measure of performance, especially in Windows.


----------



## Gen.

Guys, do you run tm5 with an easy config and want something? Download my archive and make a translation for yourself, I told everything in detail
https://yadi.sk/d/iuOfzEpBDpA5tQ


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> Guys, do you run tm5 with an easy config and want something? Download my archive and make a translation for yourself, I told everything in detail
> https://yadi.sk/d/iuOfzEpBDpA5tQ


easy, hard... my point is that it is a specious measure of performance - not that it is a poor ram stressor. Sorry if any language barrier made that unclear. :thumb:


----------



## Gen.

I use T1d Kedarwolf and have no problems with it (https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...390-aorus-owners-thread-832.html#post28368944) and try 3900CL14.


----------



## lpittman

Where do you guys measure your memory temp at? Do you just tape a sensor on the top or side of the heatsink?

I have tucked one of the thermistors that came with my Aorus Master between the two center dimm slots, at the center. Not sure if that will give me an inaccurate reading though because it's next to both the slots as well as the motherboard.

Thoughts?


----------



## The Pook

lpittman said:


> Where do you guys measure your memory temp at? Do you just tape a sensor on the top or side of the heatsink?
> 
> I have tucked one of the thermistors that came with my Aorus Master between the two center dimm slots, at the center. Not sure if that will give me an inaccurate reading though because it's next to both the slots as well as the motherboard.
> 
> Thoughts?



most RAM nowadays have a temp sensor built in already.


----------



## rares495

The Pook said:


> most RAM nowadays have a temp sensor built in already.


G.Skill says that they don't.



Spoiler



Hi,



We apologize for the inconvenience.



Our memory kits do not have officially support temperature sensors and we are unable to guarantee its accuracy.



Temperature readings might be due to some EEPROM chips that may have integrated temperature sensors in them, but we do not design for it to be in use.



Thank you.







Best Regards



Euro Tech Support Team



G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

8F No. 69 DongXing Rd., Xinyi District

Taipei City, 11070 Taiwan (R.O.C.)

+886 2 2766-7889

http://www.gskill.us/forum/


----------



## The Pook

rares495 said:


> G.Skill says that they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
> 
> 
> 
> Our memory kits do not have officially support temperature sensors and we are unable to guarantee its accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> Temperature readings might be due to some EEPROM chips that may have integrated temperature sensors in them, but we do not design for it to be in use.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> 
> 
> Euro Tech Support Team
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 8F No. 69 DongXing Rd., Xinyi District
> 
> Taipei City, 11070 Taiwan (R.O.C.)
> 
> +886 2 2766-7889
> 
> http://www.gskill.us/forum/



no, a minimum wage rep who answers G.Skills emails says they don't.


----------



## rares495

The Pook said:


> no, a minimum wage rep who answers G.Skills emails says they don't.


Yup. Exactly what he/she said. The sensor might be somewhere else, not on the modules themselves. This would explain a lot. Like why Trashfoon Burner/HWInfo can't read those sensors on some motherboards. Take a look at HWInfo. It says Motherboard above the DIMM sensors. That means the temp sensors are on the motherboard.


----------



## The Pook

it says motherboard because I renamed the header to say motherboard, lol.

my IGP temp sensor is also under my motherboard, is my IGP sensor on my motherboard?


----------



## rares495

The Pook said:


> it says motherboard because I renamed the header to say motherboard, lol.
> 
> my IGP temp sensor is also under my motherboard, is my IGP sensor on my motherboard?


It's Intel so that wouldn't surprise me at all.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Dimm-TS is in the eprom IC module on the ram stick if the manufacturer includes it in the specific SKU (most DDR4 modules have a DIMM-TS, but few do not the pcb trace to read it is my understanding). The more common problem is with motherboards that use the SMS bus (I2C) vs the SIO. ASUS uses the SIO or ASUS EC, others use the SMS and not all OS based tools like HWi or AID64 actually look for which is in use (or let you choose to ignore it, ala ASUS EC). With AID64 (especially AID64 Engineer) you will need to enable the Dimm temp option in preferences manually for SIO, or ASUS EC, AID64 has updated (more recent versions to toggle the SMS multiplex for the signal interrogation). In my experience, SIV64 has not failed to find the DIMM-TS signal on ASUS, Gigabyte and Asrock mobos.
So, said more simply, if you do not see a temp "readout" on DDR4 check the tools and motherboard first.


----------



## rares495

Jpmboy said:


> The Dimm-TS is in the eprom IC module on the ram stick if the manufacturer includes it in the specific SKU (most DDR4 modules have a DIMM-TS, but few do not the pcb trace to read it is my understanding). The more common problem is with motherboards that use the SMS bus (I2C) vs the SIO. ASUS uses the SIO or ASUS EC, others use the SMS and not all OS based tools like HWi or AID64 actually look for which is in use (or let you choose to ignore it, ala ASUS EC). With AID64 (especially AID64 Engineer) you will need to enable the Dimm temp option in preferences manually for SIO, or ASUS EC, AID64 has updated (more recent versions to toggle the SMS multiplex for the signal interrogation). In my experience, SIV64 has not failed to find the DIMM-TS signal on ASUS, Gigabyte and Asrock mobos.
> So, said more simply, if you do not see a temp "readout" on DDR4 check the tools and motherboard first.


Even SIV gave up when dealing with my trash motherboard. It really was my last hope.


----------



## Jpmboy

Intel or AMD MB? (I know the guy who wrote SIV)


----------



## rares495

Jpmboy said:


> Intel or AMD MB? (I know the guy who wrote SIV)


AMD MSI X470 Gaming Pro.


----------



## Jpmboy

Yeah, leme check my x470 Taichi with 4x8GB Sammy FlareX in there...


----------



## lpittman

The Pook said:


> most RAM nowadays have a temp sensor built in already.


Unfortunately mine do not. At least not according to HWINFO.


----------



## Jpmboy

rares495 said:


> AMD MSI X470 Gaming Pro.


Yeah - the Tachi has the readout on these FlareX sticks. The easiest way to try to get a handle on this is to dunp an SIV report and post it to his website.


----------



## rares495

Jpmboy said:


> Yeah - the Tachi has the readout on these FlareX sticks.


Aaaand it's my motherboard. Kinda already knew that. Thanks for trying to help, though.


----------



## Jpmboy

rares495 said:


> Aaaand it's my motherboard. Kinda already knew that.


We're way off topic in this INtel Memory thread... but do you think that CPU OC could survive 24h of Boinc (milkyway) number crunching at that voltage? 

Oh, and BTW, now that I read the response in the spoiler. What the "helpless desk" is saying is that GS does not support the DIMM-TS. That is the partner's (motherboard) problem. But I think you know that.


----------



## rares495

Jpmboy said:


> We're way off topic in this INtel Memory thread... but do you think that CPU OC could survive 24h of Boinc (milkyway) number crunching at that voltage?


It's just the PBO bug. It doesn't push that much more voltage than stock.


Intel is the greatest. Yay intel!!! DDR4 high speed 9900k.


----------



## Jpmboy

rares495 said:


> It's just the PBO bug. It doesn't push that much more voltage than stock.
> 
> 
> *Intel is the greatest. Yay intel!!! DDR4 high speed 9900k.*


We know that. That's why there is this Intel thead. 
PBO? nah, you're better than PBO.


----------



## rares495

Jpmboy said:


> We know that. That's why there is this Intel thead.


Yeah, no, just wrote that to be on topic. Nice try, though.


DDR4-5000 on Z390 wet dreams.


----------



## Jpmboy

Next chipset, that;s why the dram manufacturers are getting the 5000 XMP sticks out.


----------



## munternet

Finally got under 34ns (just) 

4600-17-17-17-36-2T
Dram volts = 1.54
VCCIO = 1.25
VCCSA = 1.35

Might use it for a daily since the io and sa volts aren't outrageous.


----------



## lpittman

Posted over in the official Gigabyte z390 thread - but thinking it was probably a better idea to post this here!

During my last (and first) attempt at a memory o/c I went too quickly and although it was 'fast' it certainly wasn't stable.

So I started over and now the CPU is 90m OCCT Large/AVX2 & 4h WarZone stable and the memory is 9h Karhu stable on top of that, so I'm considering it to be stable enough for my use currently.

Wouldn't mind some input from some of you experienced guys at this point. Is there anything obviously wrong I need to fix? Any tips or suggestions are welcome.

Otherwise I'm just going to keep plugging away a little bit at a time.

*Edit: * Since I've posted this, I tried bumping tREFI up to 32032, but it caused OCCT to crash at about ~48 minutes. Bumped it back down to 16016 and it made it 90 minutes again. So now I am trying 24024 and am at 46 minutes of OCCT so we'll see if it holds out.

Cheers! And hope everyone is healthy and happy!


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> Finally got under 34ns (just)
> 
> 4600-17-17-17-36-2T
> Dram volts = 1.54
> VCCIO = 1.25
> VCCSA = 1.35
> 
> Might use it for a daily since the io and sa volts aren't outrageous.



:drool:


----------



## Hiikeri

munternet said:


> Finally got under 34ns (just)
> 
> 4600-17-17-17-36-2T
> Dram volts = 1.54
> VCCIO = 1.25
> VCCSA = 1.35
> 
> Might use it for a daily since the io and sa volts aren't outrageous.


How about Karhu Ramtest > 1 hour?


----------



## munternet

munternet said:


> Finally got under 34ns (just)
> 
> 4600-17-17-17-36-2T
> Dram volts = 1.54
> VCCIO = 1.25
> VCCSA = 1.35
> 
> Might use it for a daily since the io and sa volts aren't outrageous.


After hours of setting and testing 'till 3am this-morning it appears the cool night is much more agreeable to testing than day time, which is about 8c warmer.
There is more work to do to find stability 
At least I know I'm in the ball-park..


----------



## eminded1

hello, im trying to OC my ram up to 4500-4700 I can get 4600 to boot at cl19 19 19 39 with 1.5VDIMM, 1.3 IO 1.32 SA 0.95 DMI 1.05 CPU PLL 
Currenty right now I have the ram clocked at 4300MHZ at CL 17 17 17 37 @ 1.4VDIMM, 1.22 IO and 1.24 SA .95 DMI 1.05 Core PLL and it is rock solid stable.. Passed 33000% in Karhu Ram Test 1.1 and hours and hours of Prime 95 Blend and Large FFT Also HCI memtest Stable for 10 Hrs,

I want this ram to be stable at around 4500-4700 when I set it to 4600 at 19 19 19 39 @ 1.5vDIMM 1.32 Sa 1.3 IO I can pass prime 95 large FFT just fine but when I run HCI memtest or Karhu RAM test 1.1 it gets an error within 1 minute everytime.

What do you recommend I do to make this ram stable at around 4600MHZ my board is a z390 Maximus Gene im on latest bios (1401) I read somewhere that bios 1301 was better for mem overclocking. I attached pictures of the testing apps aswell as the timings and settings im using which are 100% stable at 4300. but I want to go to 4600 since my IMC does boot into windows I know its not my CPU at 4600MHZ what do you recommend I do to gain stability at such a high freq. I tried 19 26 26 46 @ 4600 1.6VDIMM and still errors within a minute on Karhu mem test but its stable in prime95, aida, XTU.. let me know thanksz.

Also does DMI voltage effect stability at 4600MHZ ram? what IO and SA Voltage should I be at at 4600MHZ? im afraid to go above 1.36, but I know my IMC can handle thos high speeds perfectly as it boots and is stable in Prime 95 Large FFT

If a Ram Overclock passes everything but Karhu and HCI Memtest will it be stable to 24/7 everyday use? I may try it but im wary to because it may crash unexpectedly when gaming or in the middle of a match that's what I don't want to happen. I went back to 4300 and its rock solid stable in all stability tests, Karhu and HCI Memtest 40000% I may just leave it like that or consider getting the Patroit 4400mhz c19 kit I read somewhere people getting that kit up to 4700+ stable 24/7 with under 1.4 VCCSA and VCCIO.


----------



## munternet

eminded1 said:


> hello, im trying to OC my ram up to 4500-4700 I can get 4600 to boot at cl19 19 19 39 with 1.5VDIMM, 1.3 IO 1.32 SA 0.95 DMI 1.05 CPU PLL
> Currenty right now I have the ram clocked at 4300MHZ at CL 17 17 17 37 @ 1.4VDIMM, 1.22 IO and 1.24 SA .95 DMI 1.05 Core PLL and it is rock solid stable.. Passed 33000% in Karhu Ram Test 1.1 and hours and hours of Prime 95 Blend and Large FFT Also HCI memtest Stable for 10 Hrs,
> 
> I want this ram to be stable at around 4500-4700 when I set it to 4600 at 19 19 19 39 @ 1.5vDIMM 1.32 Sa 1.3 IO I can pass prime 95 large FFT just fine but when I run HCI memtest or Karhu RAM test 1.1 it gets an error within 1 minute everytime.
> 
> What do you recommend I do to make this ram stable at around 4600MHZ my board is a z390 Maximus Gene im on latest bios (1401) I read somewhere that bios 1301 was better for mem overclocking. I attached pictures of the testing apps aswell as the timings and settings im using which are 100% stable at 4300. but I want to go to 4600 since my IMC does boot into windows I know its not my CPU at 4600MHZ what do you recommend I do to gain stability at such a high freq. I tried 19 26 26 46 @ 4600 1.6VDIMM and still errors within a minute on Karhu mem test but its stable in prime95, aida, XTU.. let me know thanksz.
> 
> Also does DMI voltage effect stability at 4600MHZ ram? what IO and SA Voltage should I be at at 4600MHZ? im afraid to go above 1.36, but I know my IMC can handle thos high speeds perfectly as it boots and is stable in Prime 95 Large FFT
> 
> *If a Ram Overclock passes everything but Karhu and HCI Memtest will it be stable to 24/7 everyday use? I may try it but im wary to because it may crash unexpectedly when gaming or in the middle of a match that's what I don't want to happen.* I went back to 4300 and its rock solid stable in all stability tests, Karhu and HCI Memtest 40000% I may just leave it like that or consider getting the Patroit 4400mhz c19 kit I read somewhere people getting that kit up to 4700+ stable 24/7 with under 1.4 VCCSA and VCCIO.


I would not use it at all if you know you are throwing errors. It may corrupt your install.

I started a thread for Asus Gene XI ram overclocking, since it is a common board. link in my sig.
This is the "Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread"


----------



## safado2

Quite late for the party,

Hello everyone,

First of all, I am a ESL so bear with me.

I have managed to OC my 7900x to 4.7 with no issues so far except that I am not that confident when it comes to the right settings of my RAM.

I use this current model: F4-3200C16Q-32GTZR- GSKILL Trident Z.(Hynix)(8GB module each for a total of 64GB)

I have been advised to find out right CAS or what not the XMP for this RAM because when i tried to change DRAM REF cycle to Auto from 400 and the step below from 32767 to auto, I was able to post and then boot normally to windows.
My RAM did not like the DRAM REF of 400 and the step of 32767 and refused to post so I went back and changed to Auto and then it did.

A nice guy called thewebsite is down help me with this 7900x OC and I am grateful for his help, he also mentioned me that I needed to use software to get the timings and so far this is what i have got:

Minimum Timing Delays
15-15-15-36-50
Read Latencies Supported
16T, 15T, 14T, 13T, 12T, 11T, 10T
--

FREQUENCY CAS RCD RP RAS RC FAW RRDS RRDL WR WTRS
1067 MHz 16 15 15 36 50 23 4 6 16 3
1067 MHz 15 15 15 36 50 23 4 6 16 3
933 MHz 14 13 13 31 44 20 4 5 14 3
933 MHz 13 13 13 31 44 20 4 5 14 3
800 MHz 12 11 11 27 38 17 3 5 12 2
800 MHz 11 11 11 27 38 17 3 5 12 2
667 MHz 10 10 10 22 32 14 3 4 10 2

I think these are my standard SPD timings which are also the jpec standard timings but not the XMP.

Happy if someone can point out where to begin about the right timings and the right XMP timings as well.

Much appreciated.

Edit: I have added all the information from HWinfo MEM for everyone to get a crack at it.

Cheers


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

safado2 said:


> Quite late for the party,
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> First of all, I am a ESL so bear with me.
> 
> I have managed to OC my 7900x to 4.7 with no issues so far except that I am not that confident when it comes to the right settings of my RAM.
> 
> I use this current model: F4-3200C16Q-32GTZR- GSKILL Trident Z.(Hynix)(8GB module each for a total of 64GB)
> 
> I have been advised to find out right CAS or what not the XMP for this RAM because when i tried to change DRAM REF cycle to Auto from 400 and the step below from 32767 to auto, I was able to post and then boot normally to windows.
> My RAM did not like the DRAM REF of 400 and the step of 32767 and refused to post so I went back and changed to Auto and then it did.
> 
> A nice guy called thewebsite is down help me with this 7900x OC and I am grateful for his help, he also mentioned me that I needed to use software to get the timings and so far this is what i have got:
> 
> Minimum Timing Delays
> 15-15-15-36-50
> Read Latencies Supported
> 16T, 15T, 14T, 13T, 12T, 11T, 10T
> --
> 
> FREQUENCY CAS RCD RP RAS RC FAW RRDS RRDL WR WTRS
> 1067 MHz 16 15 15 36 50 23 4 6 16 3
> 1067 MHz 15 15 15 36 50 23 4 6 16 3
> 933 MHz 14 13 13 31 44 20 4 5 14 3
> 933 MHz 13 13 13 31 44 20 4 5 14 3
> 800 MHz 12 11 11 27 38 17 3 5 12 2
> 800 MHz 11 11 11 27 38 17 3 5 12 2
> 667 MHz 10 10 10 22 32 14 3 4 10 2
> 
> I think these are my standard SPD timings which are also the jpec standard timings but not the XMP.
> 
> Happy if someone can point out where to begin about the right timings and the right XMP timings as well.
> 
> Much appreciated.
> 
> Edit: I have added all the information from HWinfo MEM for everyone to get a crack at it.
> 
> Cheers


Check the info sticker on the heatsink. Gskill marks AFR as 21a or CJR as 21C, etc.

I think Gskill used CJR dies to make 3200C16Q sticks. CJR sticks usually prefer higher tRFC, like 400-600, and tRCD needs to be 3 or 4 higher than tCL. The experiences with B-die cannot be applied to CJR.


----------



## rares495

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> and tRCD needs to be 3 or 4 higher than tCL.


EDIT: I can't read. Sorry. Nevermind.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

rares495 said:


> Doubt. That seems quite high.


That's the way to get CJR to 4800 and 5000.

So far I just know there are only two chips can do low tRCD, which are B-die and E-die(C9BKV).


----------



## rares495

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That's the way to get CJR to 4800 and 5000.
> 
> So far I just know there are only two chips can do low tRCD, which are B-die and E-die(C9BKV).


Yeah. I misread it as "3 or 4 times higher". My bad.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

rares495 said:


> Yeah. I misread it as "3 or 4 times higher". My bad.


no problem


----------



## nick name

munternet said:


> Finally got under 34ns (just)
> 
> 4600-17-17-17-36-2T
> Dram volts = 1.54
> VCCIO = 1.25
> VCCSA = 1.35
> 
> Might use it for a daily since the io and sa volts aren't outrageous.


That is sexy. 

How does latency respond to CPU speed with Intel?


----------



## bp7178

munternet said:


> Finally got under 34ns (just)
> 
> 4600-17-17-17-36-2T
> Dram volts = 1.54
> VCCIO = 1.25
> VCCSA = 1.35
> 
> Might use it for a daily since the io and sa volts aren't outrageous.


To get this to pass TM5 with the 1usmus_v2 profile, I used 1.3500v and 1.4750 for VCCIO and VCCSA. I could get into Windows and game (kind of...) at 1.2500v and 1.3500v, but I was getting crashes. 

I also tried 1T, and was gaming on that using 16-16-16-34 1T 4200mhz at 1.450 DRAM and 1.2500 for both VCCIO and VCCSA.


----------



## safado2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Check the info sticker on the heatsink. Gskill marks AFR as 21a or CJR as 21C, etc.
> 
> I think Gskill used CJR dies to make 3200C16Q sticks. CJR sticks usually prefer higher tRFC, like 400-600, and tRCD needs to be 3 or 4 higher than tCL. The experiences with B-die cannot be applied to CJR.


Thank you for your response.

I have checked the heatsink and there is no mention of what are you saying.

Also, I do not really understand what do you mean with all that.

Can we try again?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

safado2 said:


> Thank you for your response.
> 
> I have checked the heatsink and there is no mention of what are you saying.
> 
> Also, I do not really understand what do you mean with all that.
> 
> Can we try again?


You need to identify the correct memory chip so that you can set the correct timings. Your tRFC might be a little low for you memory chips.

You should be able to find such model numbers on your memory stickers. The last 3 digits indicate the model of the memory chips that used.

Based on my experience, you should be able to find "21C", and 21 C means "Hynix CJR ram chip".


----------



## munternet

bp7178 said:


> To get this to pass TM5 with the 1usmus_v2 profile, I used 1.3500v and 1.4750 for VCCIO and VCCSA. I could get into Windows and game (kind of...) at 1.2500v and 1.3500v, but I was getting crashes.
> 
> I also tried 1T, and was gaming on that using 16-16-16-34 1T 4200mhz at 1.450 DRAM and 1.2500 for both VCCIO and VCCSA.


It was a cool night when I first tested. I wasn't getting instability or crashes (although I didn't try BFV) but once the ambient and my coolant temps warmed up the next day it was throwing a few errors in GSAT. Maybe one after 15 minutes then every 5 minutes after 
Thanks for the info. I will try testing with higher io and sa


----------



## safado2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to identify the correct memory chip so that you can set the correct timings. Your tRFC might be a little low for you memory chips.
> 
> You should be able to find such model numbers on your memory stickers. The last 3 digits indicate the model of the memory chips that used.
> 
> Based on my experience, you should be able to find "21C", and 21 C means "Hynix CJR ram chip".


Thanks again for your prompt response.

One thing I know for sure is that these GSKILL ram is using the Hynix CJR Ram chip but as you will see on the photos I am uploading, there is not such thing as 21C.

These sticks came as part of a 4 module each of 8GB each.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KsvTxo-xo7oofIz4_2i34qHWnfY1SMwL/view?usp=sharing


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

safado2 said:


> Thanks again for your prompt response.
> 
> One thing I know for sure is that these GSKILL ram is using the Hynix CJR Ram chip but as you will see on the photos I am uploading, there is not such thing as 21C.
> 
> These sticks came as part of a 4 module each of 8GB each.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KsvTxo-xo7oofIz4_2i34qHWnfY1SMwL/view?usp=sharing


Ok its the old version from 2017. Gskill does use CJR, but before they also used AFR and MFR from Hynix.

If it is CJR, then you might try higher tRFC, like 450, 500 or so. tRFC 400 and lower are usually for Samsung b-dies.


----------



## safado2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Ok its the old version from 2017. Gskill does use CJR, but before they also used AFR and MFR from Hynix.
> 
> If it is CJR, then you might try higher tRFC, like 450, 500 or so. tRFC 400 and lower are usually for Samsung b-dies.


Indeed it is.

I have entered 500 or the DRAM REF Cycle Time (tRFC) to 500 from auto and I was able to boot.

This is how it looks now:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7fjsj4ZwXLbAdh6QEMpgERmNbk6h1zC/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kw-p6nC2qhm6fqgI69N9AHWoNzfTm--a/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7Ic86UoNHeOEvQVEGQVpo9DK2EFblol/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KtFeNy17cZ7Oc2KcV4PmiSZUywNiJXBu/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L1l0BSO1A4Z9mTDbsRCQGzOxwREh_IyV/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L1gJgPyn7yFtAmfhJcUOKw35Uf4VRLzG/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KyqiQT_hKhx1edlEId3OHzNvkKUn50-W/view?usp=sharing

I also wanted to know if I could boot if I change the memory DRAM frequency from 3200 and I managed to boot to 3600 however it does bot mean it is stable.

What else do you think I should change from within the BIOS settings ?

Thanks a lot man!!

Edit: Not stable at 3600.
Edit2: Seems stable at 3400 however I am not sure why the DRAM Refresh Interval shows at 12480??


----------



## bp7178

munternet said:


> It was a cool night when I first tested. I wasn't getting instability or crashes (although I didn't try BFV) but once the ambient and my coolant temps warmed up the next day it was throwing a few errors in GSAT. Maybe one after 15 minutes then every 5 minutes after
> Thanks for the info. I will try testing with higher io and sa


Do you think its better to go for 4200Mhz 16-16-16-34 1T or 4600Mhz 17-17-17-36 2T?


----------



## rootmoto

@Falkentyne Do you know if the Gigabyte Z370 series used the T Topology like Z390? I have a Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 which is a 6 layer PCB like the Gaming 7.


----------



## Falkentyne

rootmoto said:


> @Falkentyne Do you know if the Gigabyte Z370 series used the T Topology like Z390? I have a Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 which is a 6 layer PCB like the Gaming 7.


No idea. Sorry.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

safado2 said:


> Indeed it is.
> 
> I have entered 500 or the DRAM REF Cycle Time (tRFC) to 500 from auto and I was able to boot.
> 
> This is how it looks now:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7fjsj4ZwXLbAdh6QEMpgERmNbk6h1zC/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kw-p6nC2qhm6fqgI69N9AHWoNzfTm--a/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7Ic86UoNHeOEvQVEGQVpo9DK2EFblol/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KtFeNy17cZ7Oc2KcV4PmiSZUywNiJXBu/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L1l0BSO1A4Z9mTDbsRCQGzOxwREh_IyV/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L1gJgPyn7yFtAmfhJcUOKw35Uf4VRLzG/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KyqiQT_hKhx1edlEId3OHzNvkKUn50-W/view?usp=sharing
> 
> I also wanted to know if I could boot if I change the memory DRAM frequency from 3200 and I managed to boot to 3600 however it does bot mean it is stable.
> 
> What else do you think I should change from within the BIOS settings ?
> 
> Thanks a lot man!!
> 
> Edit: Not stable at 3600.
> Edit2: Seems stable at 3400 however I am not sure why the DRAM Refresh Interval shows at 12480??


Hynix chips don't need much voltage under 4000. You may want to raise IO/SA voltages up to 1.2V. Especially IO voltage since you use 4 Dimms you might need much higher than 1.2V. IF that doesn't work, probably you have reached the limit of these sticks. If you want to try higher, I suggest Ballistix 3600 RGB kits or Ballistix Elite 3600 kits.


----------



## safado2

Hey,

So far I have discovered that:

1: DRAM Refresh rate is at 32767 but if I change the Frequency to lets say 3600 it will not boot into windows

2: I would like to understand that if the DRAM frequency needs to be the same within BIOS?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

safado2 said:


> Hey,
> 
> So far I have discovered that:
> 
> 1: DRAM Refresh rate is at 32767 but if I change the Frequency to lets say 3600 it will not boot into windows
> 
> 2: I would like to understand that if the DRAM frequency needs to be the same within BIOS?


Please specify what do you mean by "the same frequency". AFAIK, most BIOS can only set a unified frequency for all DIMMs.


----------



## safado2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Hynix chips don't need much voltage under 4000. You may want to raise IO/SA voltages up to 1.2V. Especially IO voltage since you use 4 Dimms you might need much higher than 1.2V. IF that doesn't work, probably you have reached the limit of these sticks. If you want to try higher, I suggest Ballistix 3600 RGB kits or Ballistix Elite 3600 kits.


Hey,

Bid you to it, thanks again for your help.

I am getting flustered here.

I have selected the RAM frequency at 3470 and it boots fine on windows, 3600 is no go however the DRAM REFRESH INTERVAL is at 32767.

Should I leave it like that or I need to match the DRAM Refresh Interval with the DRAM frequency???


----------



## Falkentyne

safado2 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Bid you to it, thanks again for your help.
> 
> I am getting flustered here.
> 
> I have selected the RAM frequency at 3470 and it boots fine on windows, 3600 is no go however the DRAM REFRESH INTERVAL is at 32767.
> 
> Should I leave it like that or I need to match the DRAM Refresh Interval with the DRAM frequency???


tREFI has nothing to do with DRAM Frequency.


----------



## safado2

Falkentyne said:


> tREFI has nothing to do with DRAM Frequency.


Then should I leave it as it is?


----------



## Falkentyne

safado2 said:


> Then should I leave it as it is?


You leave tREFI at default. You tweak it after your DDR memory frequency is stabilized AND after the primary timings are set.
tREFI and tRFC are directly related to each other.


----------



## safado2

Falkentyne said:


> You leave tREFI at default. You tweak it after your DDR memory frequency is stabilized AND after the primary timings are set.
> tREFI and tRFC are directly related to each other.


Step by step,

I was able to post and boot into windows using this configuration:

1: VCCIO bumped to 1.2v (was at 1.990)
2: CPU imput voltage : 1.990v (Same name for the same thing) MY BAD.
3: RAM frequency to 3460 - 3800 will not post. (My Ram is 3200 just in case)
4: tREFI is at 32767- No change there.

i am using also using : 
DRAM Voltage(CHA, CHB) [1.5000]
DRAM Voltage(CHC, CHD) [1.5000]

Since are Hynix, they may not need so much voltage, would it be safe to lower the voltage to 1.4?

And finally, the RAM frquency will not boot at 3800. Would it be safe to increase the VCCIO in increments on 1.2.1v?
What is a safe VCCIO voltage to use?

Thanks to all of you.

Night night.

Forgot to add: Using a 7900x OC at 4.7, not stable at 4.8 plus I dont think my h155i will take more heat as it is.


----------



## safado2

Bumped the CPU VCCIO Voltage from 1.2 to 1.25 and now my 4.8GHZ OC seems stable.. what gives.


----------



## munternet

bp7178 said:


> Do you think its better to go for 4200Mhz 16-16-16-34 1T or 4600Mhz 17-17-17-36 2T?


I really think the 4133-16-16-16-34-1T is by far the easiest to set and stabilize and very light on wear and tear 
Even compared to the 4200 it is far more "natural" and a massive io and sa drop and not much performance difference in the real world


----------



## moorhen2

4600 CL17


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

moorhen2 said:


> 4600 CL17


maybe set IOL offset to 15 for both channels?


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> maybe set IOL offset to 15 for both channels?


^^ improves performance in Aida64 for me


----------



## bp7178

moorhen2 said:


> 4600 CL17


What’s your DRAM, IO and SA voltage set to?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> ^^ improves performance in Aida64 for me


great:specool:


----------



## moorhen2

bp7178 said:


> What’s your DRAM, IO and SA voltage set to?


Dram 1.54v DRAM, IO 1.28v and SA 1.30v. But no way stable.


----------



## munternet

moorhen2 said:


> Dram 1.54v DRAM, IO 1.28v and SA 1.30v. But no way stable.


You have almost EXACTLY the same settings as me. Let me know if you figure out how to make it stable please 

Here's another unstable one..


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> You have almost EXACTLY the same settings as me. Let me know if you figure out how to make it stable please
> 
> Here's another unstable one..


Though dr&dd are not useful for 2 dimm case, you might try to put them in larger number.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Though dr&dd are not useful for 2 dimm case, you might try to put them in larger number.


OK, thanks. Maybe I will use 9, if that's OK, so I don't get confused with the active numbers 



I have a new overclock that's tested stable. I might use it as a daily. Nothing flash but it has good read, write and copy and it's sound and has low VCCIO and VCCSA 

4200-16-16-16-34-2T
VCCIO = 1.05v
VCCSA = 1.15v
Dram = 1.46v


----------



## moorhen2

I take it your ram is the 4400mhz stated in your system build. I am using 4000mhz ram.


----------



## BigBrainPlay

Waiting for stability testing for 64gb really sucks with only 16 threads.

*Voltages*
DRAM - 1.43V
VCCIO - 1.2V
VCCSA - 1.3V


----------



## munternet

BigBrainPlay said:


> Waiting for stability testing for 64gb really sucks with only 16 threads.
> 
> *Voltages*
> DRAM - 1.43V
> VCCIO - 1.2V
> VCCSA - 1.3V


Welcome to OCN 
That's a lot of ram all right.
If you want to test faster and the system as a whole GSAT is very good, and TestMem5 is also pretty fast to find memory errors.


----------



## BigBrainPlay

munternet said:


> Welcome to OCN
> That's a lot of ram all right.
> If you want to test faster and the system as a whole GSAT is very good, and TestMem5 is also pretty fast to find memory errors.



I think I'm done with stability testing for now. 



I tightened secondaries and tertiaries as much as I could and tested all day yesterday and overnight. I got a couple Noctua A4x20 fans to stick onto the ram, so maybe the next move is just to max out tREFI.


----------



## Jonatan Kanevad

BigBrainPlay said:


> I think I'm done with stability testing for now.
> 
> 
> 
> I tightened secondaries and tertiaries as much as I could and tested all day yesterday and overnight. I got a couple Noctua A4x20 fans to stick onto the ram, so maybe the next move is just to max out tREFI.



Looking good man! Try to lower the tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg a few points! You should be able to have them 2 points from one another (say 27/29). You may also wanna try coming down on the RTLs to gain some latency. RTLs/IOLs are a bit of a pain to set and they are motherboard specific but you should be aböe to get them down a bit.


----------



## bei fei

How does this look? Ant timing stand out that would decrease my latency?


----------



## Imprezzion

bei fei said:


> How does this look? Ant timing stand out that would decrease my latency?


Kind of yes. tRAS should be 28 or 30 if it's stable and tWR is super high at 25. Try dropping that to like, 14? (Use tWRPRE to control it as tWR is tWRPRE - tCWL)


----------



## Darkseid1979

First of all, I would like to thanks all the contributors (especially @Falkentyne for Linpack and residual) of this thread for all the advices I can read to improve my knowledge.

For me, the goal was to find the stability with an acceptable vccio/vcca (maybe i can push a little bit more but not really sure)

When i buy my ddr4, i was a little frustrated with the frequency, 1T/2T, IMC of my 9900KS (unstable at 1.3v with LinX), Manual/XMP1/XMP2, Auto/Mode 1/Mode 2 (Auto is the Best for stability for me).

Because I like this forum and threads like this I want to share what I just achieved, 4500 17-19-19-39 1T with 1.48v (vccio1.2625 / vccsa 1.2875) with a good level of stability.

If you have some advices to push a little bit more ;-), I'm open 

PS: sorry for my english


----------



## Jonatan Kanevad

Having the hardest time getting my Patriot Viper Steel 2x8 4400 kit to boot at a higher freq than 4000. I´ve been able to dail in tight timings for my 4000cl16 profile, see attached, but can´t seem to work my way up the frequencies. Tried booting 4200/4266/4400 at 1,5/1,2/1,2v all the way up to 1,65/1,3/1,3v (Dram/io/sa) Can anyone point me in the right direction?


----------



## Darkseid1979

Sorry, I forget the Timings


----------



## Salve1412

Hi everybody. I've just bought a used Maximus XI Apex intending to replace my Z390 Aorus Master that encountered countless problems with running a QVL F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR kit at its rated XMP speed (the best stable result I could get was 4133 16-16-16-36 DRAM Voltage 1.46V 1.15 VCCIO 1.17 VCCSA with tightened timings). Right now I'm testing two of my four sticks on the Apex and I got to the point where RAM seems stable at 4400Mhz 17-18-18-38 2T DRAM Voltage 1.47V (details are shown in the first picture attached). I have a couple of questions: 

1) VCCIO and VCCSA readings in HWinfo are 1.2V for both (with occasional peaks up to 1.216 for the VCCIO) even though the values I set in BIOS are 1.175V and 1.1812V. Are these discrepancies normal? I ask this because with my Gigabyte board the values read by software in Windows never exceeded what I had selected in BIOS, in fact they were always lower.

2) What do you think of secondaries and tertiaries? Is there something else I can optimize? In particular, I don't know a thing about how to correctly set RTLs and IO-Ls, since with my previous motherboard the infamous Gigabyte BIOS didn't allow any change to them. For the moment I decreased the IO-L latency Offset to 15 and I got lower RTLs. What about IO-Ls? Are 13 and 14 good values or can I try to lower them, and if so how? Do I just set them in BIOS and see if the Mobo posts?

3) This 4400MHz overclock seems to perform a little worse (latency aside) than my previous 4133 CL16 Aorus Master overclock (or should I say underclock) at least according to Karhu Ramtest (~180 MB/s. with the Apex vs ~190 MB/s. with the Master), MaxMemm2 (37.30 GB/sec. vs ~38 GB/sec.) and Geekbench3. In Aida64, Read and Write speeds as well as latency are better, while Copy speed is lower (in the pictures below the difference appears to be minimal, but the Master screenshot is the only one I could retrieve and was taken in addition when I still had my old 9900k instead of my current 9900KS: usually I score around 62000 MB/s Copy speeds). How can this inferior performance be explained? The major difference is of course that the Master was running four sticks for a total of 32GB, while the Apex only 16GB with two of those sticks. Probably a really silly question to ask, but does the doubled amount of RAM increase performance overall and particularly in benchmarks?

4) If I were to buy a 32GB kit for the Apex, which one would you suggest? Could I expect to reach high frequencies such as 4400, 4500MHz or will I probably be limited to lower speed?

Apologies for the prolixity and thanks in advance. Have a nice day!


----------



## bxcounter

Got myself another kit of Team Dark pro 2x8 14-14-14-31 for 9900k rig.
Well damn, don't know what kind of pcb they are using, but it clocks sky high and scales very nice with voltage. 
Gskill 4266c19GTZR kit is pure unrefined garbage compared to this.

1h GSAT (timings still untuned) passed.


----------



## munternet

Salve1412 said:


> Hi everybody. I've just bought a used Maximus XI Apex intending to replace my Z390 Aorus Master that encountered countless problems with running a QVL F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR kit at its rated XMP speed (the best stable result I could get was 4133 16-16-16-36 DRAM Voltage 1.46V 1.15 VCCIO 1.17 VCCSA with tightened timings). Right now I'm testing two of my four sticks on the Apex and I got to the point where RAM seems stable at 4400Mhz 17-18-18-38 2T DRAM Voltage 1.47V (details are shown in the first picture attached). I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1) VCCIO and VCCSA readings in HWinfo are 1.2V for both (with occasional peaks up to 1.216 for the VCCIO) even though the values I set in BIOS are 1.175V and 1.1812V. Are these discrepancies normal? I ask this because with my Gigabyte board the values read by software in Windows never exceeded what I had selected in BIOS, in fact they were always lower.
> 
> 2) What do you think of secondaries and tertiaries? Is there something else I can optimize? In particular, I don't know a thing about how to correctly set RTLs and IO-Ls, since with my previous motherboard the infamous Gigabyte BIOS didn't allow any change to them. For the moment I decreased the IO-L latency Offset to 15 and I got lower RTLs. What about IO-Ls? Are 13 and 14 good values or can I try to lower them, and if so how? Do I just set them in BIOS and see if the Mobo posts?
> 
> 3) This 4400MHz overclock seems to perform a little worse (latency aside) than my previous 4133 CL16 Aorus Master overclock (or should I say underclock) at least according to Karhu Ramtest (~180 MB/s. with the Apex vs ~190 MB/s. with the Master), MaxMemm2 (37.30 GB/sec. vs ~38 GB/sec.) and Geekbench3. In Aida64, Read and Write speeds as well as latency are better, while Copy speed is lower (in the pictures below the difference appears to be minimal, but the Master screenshot is the only one I could retrieve and was taken in addition when I still had my old 9900k instead of my current 9900KS: usually I score around 62000 MB/s Copy speeds). How can this inferior performance be explained? The major difference is of course that the Master was running four sticks for a total of 32GB, while the Apex only 16GB with two of those sticks. Probably a really silly question to ask, but does the doubled amount of RAM increase performance overall and particularly in benchmarks?
> 
> 4) If I were to buy a 32GB kit for the Apex, which one would you suggest? Could I expect to reach high frequencies such as 4400, 4500MHz or will I probably be limited to lower speed?
> 
> Apologies for the prolixity and thanks in advance. Have a nice day!


My findings for comparison 

1) On my Gene the io and sa readings are never exactly what I set them in the BIOS. Similar differences to yours.
2) I spent a good day or two testing performance while changing the IO-L offsets and found 15 to be the best performing in Aida64 and I left the RTLs and IO-Ls on auto and fixed them after.
3) I found exactly the same with performance testing when going from the Maximus X Hero with T-topology to the 2 DIMM Maximus X Gene. While the raw frequencies are better with 2 dimms it seems having 4 dimms accessible simultaneously increases overall performance.


----------



## munternet

bxcounter said:


> Got myself another kit of Team Dark pro 2x8 14-14-14-31 for 9900k rig.
> Well damn, don't know what kind of pcb they are using, but it clocks sky high and scales very nice with voltage.
> Gskill 4266c19GTZR kit is pure unrefined garbage compared to this.
> 
> 1h GSAT (timings still untuned) passed.


Wow! 4400cl15
Very nice. I might have to try and get some of those


----------



## bei fei

bxcounter said:


> Got myself another kit of Team Dark pro 2x8 14-14-14-31 for 9900k rig.
> Well damn, don't know what kind of pcb they are using, but it clocks sky high and scales very nice with voltage.
> Gskill 4266c19GTZR kit is pure unrefined garbage compared to this.
> 
> 1h GSAT (timings still untuned) passed.


Is this the RAM your talking about?

I have two sets that I never tried........


----------



## bei fei

Imprezzion said:


> Kind of yes. tRAS should be 28 or 30 if it's stable and tWR is super high at 25. Try dropping that to like, 14? (Use tWRPRE to control it as tWR is tWRPRE - tCWL)


That helped a bunch thanks


----------



## bxcounter

bei fei said:


> Is this the RAM your talking about?
> 
> I have two sets that I never tried........


Yep, it's them !

ps..you can unscrew top piece of these sticks. I found it does nothing but add extra height.


----------



## Zemach

4666 Cl 16 16 16 36 1.630v Memtest 100%+


----------



## bp7178

Jonatan Kanevad said:


> Having the hardest time getting my Patriot Viper Steel 2x8 4400 kit to boot at a higher freq than 4000. I´ve been able to dail in tight timings for my 4000cl16 profile, see attached, but can´t seem to work my way up the frequencies. Tried booting 4200/4266/4400 at 1,5/1,2/1,2v all the way up to 1,65/1,3/1,3v (Dram/io/sa) Can anyone point me in the right direction?


So with that kit on my XI Gene I had to enable Maximus Tweak Mode 2 instead of auto and enable trace centering. I manually set the VCCIO and VCSSA voltages to 1.2500v and enabled XMP. This got it to boot. 

At 1.500 DRAM and 1.3500 VCCIO and 1.4500 VCCSA you may be able to get 4600Mhz 17-17-17-36 to boot and be reasonable stable provided you did the Mode 2/Trace Centering thing.

From what I'm looking at with other people's results, more DRAM voltage may allow you to get away with less IO and SA.


----------



## Carillo

Zemach said:


> 4666 Cl 16 16 16 36 1.630v Memtest 100%+


Awsome


----------



## Carillo

Did some testing myself 

4800 cl17.17.17.34


----------



## Zemach

Carillo said:


> Did some testing myself
> 
> 4800 cl17.17.17.34


Nice


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> Did some testing myself
> 
> 4800 cl17.17.17.34


That's a golden chip!

Mine needs SA=1.53~1.55 to be stable.


----------



## Carillo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That's a golden chip!
> 
> Mine needs SA=1.53~1.55 to be stable.


Most chips i have tested can't do more than 4700mhz But this one is good, wait for it


----------



## Carillo

Finally the big 5G! 5000 cl18.18.18.36 1.4IO/1.6SA !


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> Most chips i have tested can't do more than 4700mhz But this one is good, wait for it


I am having a 9900K and an 8086K, both of which can do 4800CL17. 9900K needs SA=1.67 and 8086K needs SA=1.53.

I think you can further shrink your latency that it should be around 34ns.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> Finally the big 5G! 5000 cl18.18.18.36 1.4IO/1.6SA !


Awesome!:specool: Which kits are you running?


----------



## Carillo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I am having a 9900K and an 8086K, both of which can do 4800CL17. 9900K needs SA=1.67 and 8086K needs SA=1.53.
> 
> I think you can further shrink your latency that it should be around 34ns.


I had a lot of stuff running in the backround at the moment! So absolutly, yes


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Finally the big 5G! 5000 cl18.18.18.36 1.4IO/1.6SA !


Wild


----------



## SuperMumrik

Carillo said:


> Finally the big 5G! 5000 cl18.18.18.36 1.4IO/1.6SA !


Gratz m8, nice one!


----------



## Carillo

SuperMumrik said:


> Gratz m8, nice one!



Thanks  I promise i will not brake your memory kit


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> Wild


Motherboard supplier


----------



## Carillo

5000 cl17 ? Yes it is possible!


----------



## BLUuuE

Carillo said:


> 5000 cl17 ? Yes it is possible!


tFAW 60 tho?


----------



## Nizzen

BLUuuE said:


> tFAW 60 tho?


Can you do better?


----------



## moorhen2

Dont worry, your IMC wont last long with those voltages.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## SuperMumrik

moorhen2 said:


> Dont worry, your IMC wont last long with those voltages.


Who cares, new CPU's next month..


----------



## Carillo

Hello. To those who criticize. constructive criticism, is well received. We are all here to share our experiences, and if anyone has tips on what can or should be changed to improve the result, I really appreciate it.. post your own results to compare..But, just like that, it doesn't feel as constructive, it feels more like envy and bitterness. Do you know how many hours and effort it takes to achieve such a result? I never wrote I was going to run this 24/7 did I ? And that is not the point with such a post. Its all about showing what can be done on z390….If the goal is to demotivate, then you have succeeded, and I'm not talking about just this post….the examples are many. So with this, I thank you. im out for good!


----------



## moorhen2

Oh please forgive me, but I thought this thread was about 24/7 stability. No need to throw your toys out of the Pram.


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## Salve1412

munternet said:


> My findings for comparison
> 
> 1) On my Gene the io and sa readings are never exactly what I set them in the BIOS. Similar differences to yours.
> 2) I spent a good day or two testing performance while changing the IO-L offsets and found 15 to be the best performing in Aida64 and I left the RTLs and IO-Ls on auto and fixed them after.
> 3) I found exactly the same with performance testing when going from the Maximus X Hero with T-topology to the 2 DIMM Maximus X Gene. While the raw frequencies are better with 2 dimms it seems having 4 dimms accessible simultaneously increases overall performance.


I see, thanks for the answer! About RTLs and IO-Ls, I'm getting different board behaviour if I set Maximus Tweaker on Mode 2 instead of leaving it on Auto (at least at DDR4 4400MHz). When that setting is left on Auto, decreasing IO-L Offset will lower RTLs without having any impact on IOLs (they remain at 13/14). With Maximus tweak Mode 2 (which, If I understood correctly, should try to automatically set tighter timings) increasing IO-L Offset will decrease IOLs (incidentally their default value is much lower than before, 6/6, and I can play with Offset down to 2/3) but RTLs remain unaffected. Don't know if this is to be expected, but performance doesn't seem to significantly vary between the two modes.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Salve1412 said:


> I see, thanks for the answer! About RTLs and IO-Ls, I'm getting different board behaviour if I set Maximus Tweaker on Mode 2 instead of leaving it on Auto (at least at DDR4 4400MHz). When that setting is left on Auto, decreasing IO-L Offset will lower RTLs without having any impact on IOLs (they remain at 13/14). With Maximus tweak Mode 2 (which, If I understood correctly, should try to automatically set tighter timings) increasing IO-L Offset will decrease IOLs (incidentally their default value is much lower than before, 6/6, and I can play with Offset down to 2/3) but RTLs remain unaffected. Don't know if this is to be expected, but performance doesn't seem to significantly vary between the two modes.


Auto RTL and IOL are linked with IOL offset. You can just change IOL offset that RTL IOL will change accordingly.

Try your best not to use MODE 2. MODE 2 is for higher frequencies, and MODE 1 gives you the best "AUTO" performance.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

moorhen2 said:


> Oh please forgive me, but I thought this thread was about 24/7 stability. No need to throw your toys out of the Pram.


He just had SA=1.57. That was completely fine for daily use.

VDIMM 1.62 seemed a little high. But if he gets DIMM fans or gets his DIMMs water cooled, 1.6V+ won't be a problem.


----------



## Salve1412

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Auto RTL and IOL are linked with IOL offset. You can just change IOL offset that RTL IOL will change accordingly.
> 
> Try your best not to use MODE 2. MODE 2 is for higher frequencies, and MODE 1 gives you the best "AUTO" performance.


Thanks for the tip. What I don't understand is if both RTLs and IOLs should vary when I alter IOL Offset, because that doesn't seem to be the case in my experience. If I set MODE 1, the Auto IOLs are way higher (13/14), as well as RTLs (69/71) at 4400 17-18-18-38. But if I decrease the IOL Offset, let's say, to 15, only the RTLs would go down to 63/65, while the IOLs would remain unaltered. In MODE 2, the board sets automatically lower IOLs and RTLs values (6/7 and 62/64 respectively), and if I increase the IOL Offset (yes, increase, not decrease like before, because decreasing would cause IOLs to go higher!) IOLs will lower while RTLs will remain the same no matter what. Again, maybe I'm missing something or I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Salve1412 said:


> Thanks for the tip. What I don't understand is if both RTLs and IOLs should vary when I alter IOL Offset, because that doesn't seem to be the case in my experience. If I set MODE 1, the Auto IOLs are way higher (13/14), as well as RTLs (69/71) at 4400 17-18-18-38. But if I decrease the IOL Offset, let's say, to 15, only the RTLs would go down to 63/65, while the IOLs would remain unaltered. In MODE 2, the board sets automatically lower IOLs and RTLs values (6/7 and 62/64 respectively), and if I increase the IOL Offset (yes, increase, not decrease like before, because decreasing would cause IOLs to go higher!) IOLs will lower while RTLs will remain the same no matter what. Again, maybe I'm missing something or I'm doing something wrong.


It just an offset. Your MB will train all other timings together. Your overall ram performance depends on all the final trained timings.


----------



## Salve1412

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It just an offset. Your MB will train all other timings together. Your overall ram performance depends on all the final trained timings.


Yes, as a matter of fact performance doesn't seem to vary a lot between the two modes in the end.


----------



## bp7178

moorhen2 said:


> Dont worry, your IMC wont last long with those voltages.


IDK...a 9900KS isn't a family heirloom. There's quite a few posts here that miss the 24/7 stability part and the 1.640v DRAM was the big clue on that, cooling dependent of course. 

Intel tells you a 9900KS should last 10 years and you loose 50% (way over estimated) of that due to aggressive voltages...do you even care?


----------



## moorhen2

I have been on this forum for many years mate, and since day one of this thread, but since Silentscone left us, this thread has become more about e-peen, not what he started it for I would imagine. And please dont try and lecture me about OC, I have been in this game for over 40 years. Rant over, have a good day.


----------



## bp7178

moorhen2 said:


> I have been on this forum for many years mate, and since day one of this thread, but since Silentscone left us, this thread has become more about e-peen, not what he started it for I would imagine. And please dont try and lecture me about OC, I have been in this game for over 40 years. Rant over, have a good day.


I give zero F's how long you've been overclocking since you decided to go full tw*t mode. 

You been overclocking for 40 years? Sure. You'd think with "40 years" of experience you'd know more and be able to take someone's posted clocks in context. Are you still running that 566 Celeron? I didn't think so.


----------



## Darkseid1979

Is it possible to create a thread like "*Official* Intel DDR4 Memory Extreme Frequency " or something like this and stop this please

I know stability is large and depend on many factor but with vccio/vccsa/dddr voltages that some use, you know that's not for 24/7 use...

It's possible to create a thread and no pollute this one, the 2 can coexist ...

Don't be offended by my words, i love this thread, there is many informations and advices but i think we don't have the same goal at the beginning


----------



## moorhen2

Does your Mum know your out of bed. What a bell end.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Darkseid1979 said:


> Is it possible to create a thread like "*Official* Intel DDR4 Memory Extreme Frequency " or something like this and stop this please
> 
> I know stability is large and depend on many factor but with vccio/vccsa/dddr voltages that some use, you know that's not for 24/7 use...
> 
> It's possible to create a thread and no pollute this one, the 2 can coexist ...
> 
> Don't be offended by my words, i love this thread, there is many informations and advices but i think we don't have the same goal at the beginning


ASUS auto gives you 1.4+ IO&SA, even the ASUS guy says that SA>1.5V is completely fine. SO who do you want to trust?


----------



## rares495

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> ASUS auto gives you 1.4+ IO&SA, even the ASUS guy says that SA>1.5V is completely fine. SO who do you want to trust?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grpQysJfs-o


Hmm...I wonder if one should trust a company that's focused on selling more and more products by whatever means. Wouldn't they claim it's safe and then just play the "warranty doesn't cover OC" card? Then what would you do? 

I've been wondering the same about AMD and the maximum safe voltages for Zen 2.


----------



## Abaidor

I want to start on my memory overclock and I was wondering whether you guys use your normal Windows installation while testing or boot to something else......I remember having corrupted Windows in the past due to memory errors while overclocking and I certainly want to avoid this.......any recommendations? Should I boot to Memtest or something and run my tests?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

rares495 said:


> Hmm...I wonder if one should trust a company that's focused on selling more and more products by whatever means. Wouldn't they claim it's safe and then just play the "warranty doesn't cover OC" card? Then what would you do?
> 
> I've been wondering the same about AMD and the maximum safe voltages for Zen 2.


Why OC is not covered by warranty? You pay $20 and you got PTPP covering your CPU for 3 yrs full refund without any question. Voltage is way more harmful to CPU and DIMMs so what's your point? ASUS does not sell CPUs and ram sticks.


----------



## rares495

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Why OC is not covered by warranty? You pay $20 and you got PTPP covering your CPU for 3 yrs full refund without any question. Voltage is way more harmful to CPU and DIMMs so what's your point? ASUS does not sell CPUs and ram sticks.


OC is not covered by the warranty of any vendor/manufacturer of overclockable PC components. The reasons why should be quite clear if you know how overclocking works.

Asus is nothing but a motherboard partner and they will stick to Intel's guidance when providing customer support for Intel CPUs paired with Asus motherboards. But what if Intel were the ones lying about this in the first place?


----------



## munternet

rares495 said:


> Hmm...I wonder if one should trust a company that's focused on selling more and more products by whatever means. Wouldn't they claim it's safe and then just play the "warranty doesn't cover OC" card? Then what would you do?
> 
> I've been wondering the same about AMD and the maximum safe voltages for Zen 2.


I doubt if it's good practice to take up all their time with RMA claims. Would be a bit of a nuisance. The next new thing is always around the corner to keep sales flowing.... But who knows 




Abaidor said:


> I want to start on my memory overclock and I was wondering whether you guys use your normal Windows installation while testing or boot to something else......I remember having corrupted Windows in the past due to memory errors while overclocking and I certainly want to avoid this.......any recommendations? Should I boot to Memtest or something and run my tests?


It's probably not a bad idea to use Memtest86 test 6 prior to booting into windows. I have booted some bad memory overclocks recently and have had the odd shortcut stop working for some reason. There is some kind of corruption.
Nothing seems terminal with windows but I had to reinstall the software that was open at the time.
Once you have most of the errors gone it seems that windows corrects minor, low quantity errors.
It makes you wonder how many people with XMP are streaming errors 
I know my ram would if I loaded XMP!


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reachthesky said:


> I thought the intel OC warranty gave you a replacement chip? Is that not the case, they just refund you instead? I need to go do my research lol


Yup, they will try to replace your lame chip with a new one. If stock is gone, they will fully refund you.


----------



## munternet

I'm using water cooling on my ram and having a bit of trouble finding stability at the higher frequencies like 4600-17-17-17-36 although I'm able to boot 4800. 
I'm wondering if there is a component that's not getting proper cooling?
Also I have 2 kits of G.Skill 4400cl19 that have different size chips on them. One will be older although they will run together on a T-topology board at 4400. Will the dates be in the spd?
Which one would be better. smaller or larger chips?
Are these sticks any good? (description in my sig)
Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> I'm using water cooling on my ram and having a bit of trouble finding stability at the higher frequencies like 4600-17-17-17-36 although I'm able to boot 4800.
> I'm wondering if there is a component that's not getting proper cooling?
> Also I have 2 kits of G.Skill 4400cl19 that have different size chips on them. One will be older although they will run together on a T-topology board at 4400. Will the dates be in the spd?
> Which one would be better. smaller or larger chips?
> Are these sticks any good? (description in my sig)
> Thanks /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


What MB are you using?


----------



## munternet

Nizzen said:


> What MB are you using?


Maximus XI Gene
There is a fairly current rig builder under my sig 
I thought maybe the side plates on my ram need more silicone pads to cool every part. With air cooling it gets into more places so there are no hot spots.
It seems to me that voltage is creating the instability but I'm not sure.
As I increase my overclocks the ram tests fail after they have run for a while so I'm guessing something is warming up.


----------



## Darkseid1979

Because the previous posts aroused my curiosity, I try to push a little bit more to see what vccio/sa i need to go further than 4500:

Before :
4500 17-19-19-39 1T 1.48v (VCCIO 1.2625v / VCCSA 1.2875)
with this setting I get some instability with Mode 2 -> I must do Auto to be Stable LinpackXtreme 35k 10pass / Kharu 5h 

For 4600 2T, I put the voltage to 1.5v and I had to put Mode 2 to pass the ram check.
I need VCCIO 1.3125v / VCCSA 1.33125 -> I was hoping to need less voltage but this what it is; not so bad but I don't know if it can be a problem if I put my PC in Silent mode
To be honest I just check with Aida64 to see perf and LinpackXtreme 35k 5pass

The performances between them are close in Aida64, but I have the feeling that the 4600 2T is a little bit more reactive, I noticed this at startup. It's probably subjective but has anyone ever felt the same feeling sometimes ? Is it related to high frequency 1T / 2T ?


----------



## blodflekk

What's the relationship with Trcd and Trp? Do they need to be the same on ddr4 ?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## bxcounter

blodflekk said:


> What's the relationship with Trcd and Trp? Do they need to be the same on ddr4 ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk



Yes, they are linked on Intel mainstream platform. Only Intel HEDT platform and AMD can change them seperately.


On side note, managed to tighten few more timings and pass 4H GSAT with 4400c15.

(I'm using this pc almost everyday and so far everything is running fine.)


----------



## blodflekk

I'm on x99 so I do have the ability to change them individually but I wasn't sure if thats a good idea or not ? And if I do, is there a ratio I need to maintain with any other timings?


----------



## reachthesky

Deleted. Please delete and remove this account from this website as per gdpr laws.


----------



## rares495

blodflekk said:


> I'm on x99 so I do have the ability to change them individually but I wasn't sure if thats a good idea or not ? And if I do, is there a ratio I need to maintain with any other timings?


The 4 main timings (tCL, tRCDRD, tRCDWR and tRTP) are IC dependent.

Yes, there are three "rules" to keep in mind for ideal sync:


tRAS = tCL+ tRP + 2 OR tCL+ tRP + 4; 2 and 4 being tBL - burst length

tRC = tRAS + tRP OR tRAS + tRP -2 for performance OR tRAS + tRP +2 for stability (+4 for dual rank)

tRFC/tRP = whole number


At least for B-die ICs.


----------



## blodflekk

I'm not on B die, I'm on very early hynix. Its a pretty poor kit if I'm honest, its 3200 C16. I appreciate the feedback though I'll do some tinkering with that in mind.


----------



## eminded1

im currently at 4300MHZ cl 17 1.4VDIMM io and sa at 1.24
My kit is 16gb DDR4 Gskill 3600mhz c15d gtz kit amazing how high this kit can boot. iv booted at 4600 but it wasn't stable.. I will try to tweak settings. but I already spent a lot of time getting stable at 4300 maybe that's the mose I can get stable. ill post back.


----------



## blodflekk

This is where I'm at currently. I see no option in bios to adjust tRC. Also for some reason asrock timing config doesn't work. Never has for me, its always spewed out these random numbers.


----------



## Abaidor

I finally decided to try overclocking my 64GB Quad Trident Z RGB kit and so far I have not been able to boot on anything than the default 3600Mhz speed.....I tried 1.45V on RAM along with 1.2V on both VCCIO & VCSA and still nothing.......anything above 3600 won't boot even 3733.....

So I am going to tighten timing instead and so far I managed to reduce the primary timings from 17-19-19-39 to 16-17-17-37 and it is stable........I don't see any major difference rather than a reduction in latency on AIDA 64 from 70.5ns to 68.3ns and the bandwidth is mostly the same (slightly better).....

What should I try next? Secondary timings or tertiary? 


(Note: I still have XMP on and manually changed the timings - could it be the reason I can't boot higher than 3600???)


----------



## Blastoise




----------



## Salve1412

Blastoise said:


>


Which RAM kit do you have? Would you mind sharing your BIOS settings (in particular DRAM, VCCIO,VCCSA voltages)? Never seen anything like that on a Master, this is a huge accomplishment!


----------



## Blastoise

Salve1412 said:


> Which RAM kit do you have? Would you mind sharing your BIOS settings (in particular DRAM, VCCIO,VCCSA voltages)? Never seen anything like that on a Master, this is a huge accomplishment!



Greetings



eS ram kit, no retail, yet .

Moderate to heavy voltage is all I say. I don't share all informations. practice makes perfect.


----------



## Salve1412

Blastoise said:


> Salve1412 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which RAM kit do you have? Would you mind sharing your BIOS settings (in particular DRAM, VCCIO,VCCSA voltages)? Never seen anything like that on a Master, this is a huge accomplishment!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings
> 
> 
> 
> eS ram kit, no retail, yet /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif.
> 
> Moderate to heavy voltage is all I say. I don't share all informations. practice makes perfect.
Click to expand...

I practiced more than I should have, believe me. I owned two Aorus Master (the second one a G2 edition), a 9900K, a 9900KS, and I couldn't make a supported (at least according to QVL) 4×8GB Gskill Trident Z kit work at 4266MHz with any of the possible combinations. I've learned a lot after over a year about memory overclocking, and I've come to the conclusion that Masters really struggle to go over 4133MHz with reasonable voltages, especially considering the fact that other users encountered similar difficulties. 
However, if you don't want to share anything it's completely fine (by the way, I do not own the board anymore, so it's not like I wanted to copy your work)...I was just curious to know how you accomplished what no one else apparently could, because it seems a really unique result and I always love to learn something new. I don't know, maybe the key is that you have an ES RAM kit rated at an insanely high nominal speed? Cheers!


----------



## Blastoise

Salve1412 said:


> I practiced more than I should have, believe me. I owned two Aorus Master (the second one a G2 edition), a 9900K, a 9900KS, and I couldn't make a supported (at least according to QVL) 4×8GB Gskill Trident Z kit work at 4266MHz with any of the possible combinations. I've learned a lot after over a year about memory overclocking, and I've come to the conclusion that Masters really struggle to go over 4133MHz with reasonable voltages, especially considering the fact that other user encountered similar difficulties.
> However, if you don't want to share anything it's completely fine (by the way, I do not own the board anymore, so it's not like I wanted to copy your work)...I was just curious to know how you accomplished what no one else apparently could, because it seems a really unique result and I always love to learn something new. I don't know, maybe the key is that you have an ES RAM kit rated at an insanely high nominal speed? Cheers!


I share all that I can, I m sorry. 

To everyone here and for the kids at reddit, this song is for you. I begged for months to learn. Now I figure it out on my own and you think I should give that information away? Bahahaha, fat chance of that happening. I'm taking this information to my grave. Ya'll know who I am. Give it a listen. Thirty seconds in till a minute twelve is the best  @KingPin i'm going to show you who the real king is one day. It took me 8 months to conquer the internet on 4 dimm overclocking on the 9900k. Imagine what i'm going to do to your world records. When I beat you at your own ln2 benchmark game, i'm taking your persona. I will be the new kingpin and you will bow down to me. 

https://youtu.be/QFcv5Ma8u8k?t=30


----------



## Nizzen

Salve1412 said:


> Which RAM kit do you have? Would you mind sharing your BIOS settings (in particular DRAM, VCCIO,VCCSA voltages)? Never seen anything like that on a Master, this is a huge accomplishment!


40.9ns is pretty average memorylatency for 4600mhz  It's like 4000mhz tweaked.


----------



## Salve1412

Nizzen said:


> 40.9ns is pretty average memorylatency for 4600mhz /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif It's like 4000mhz tweaked.


I know that, latency is not good indeed (although it's kind of what you should expect from the Master considering the primaries he set and also the fact that the board doesn't allow to manually adjust RTLs and IOLs starting from DDR4-4000 and automatically puts them at "safe" high values). What I consider an accomplishment is the fact that he could stabilize (at least apparently) such a high frequency on a Master with a more than decent performance (look at those write/copy scores)...I thought that it was almost impossible to get 4266 stable on that board, let alone 4600!


----------



## Abaidor

OK my latency is improving but I feel like there is more to it..........needs testing that takes time though as I am working on the Secondary and Tertiary timings.....

The biggest reduction in latency came from tRFC & tREFI so far along with the primary timings.


----------



## SgtRotty

Blastoise said:


> Salve1412 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I practiced more than I should have, believe me. I owned two Aorus Master (the second one a G2 edition), a 9900K, a 9900KS, and I couldn't make a supported (at least according to QVL) 4×8GB Gskill Trident Z kit work at 4266MHz with any of the possible combinations. I've learned a lot after over a year about memory overclocking, and I've come to the conclusion that Masters really struggle to go over 4133MHz with reasonable voltages, especially considering the fact that other user encountered similar difficulties.
> However, if you don't want to share anything it's completely fine (by the way, I do not own the board anymore, so it's not like I wanted to copy your work)...I was just curious to know how you accomplished what no one else apparently could, because it seems a really unique result and I always love to learn something new. I don't know, maybe the key is that you have an ES RAM kit rated at an insanely high nominal speed? Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> I share all that I can, I m sorry.
> 
> To everyone here and for the kids at reddit, this song is for you. I begged for months to learn. Now I figure it out on my own and you think I should give that information away? Bahahaha, fat chance of that happening. I'm taking this information to my grave. Ya'll know who I am. Give it a listen. Thirty seconds in till a minute twelve is the best /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif @KingPin i'm going to show you who the real king is one day. It took me 8 months to conquer the internet on 4 dimm overclocking. Imagine what i'm going to do to your world records. When I beat you at your own ln2 benchmark game, i'm taking your persona. I will be the new kingpin and you will bow down to me.
> 
> https://youtu.be/QFcv5Ma8u8k?t=30
Click to expand...

Pssh unreal


----------



## Nizzen

Blastoise said:


> Salve1412 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I practiced more than I should have, believe me. I owned two Aorus Master (the second one a G2 edition), a 9900K, a 9900KS, and I couldn't make a supported (at least according to QVL) 4×8GB Gskill Trident Z kit work at 4266MHz with any of the possible combinations. I've learned a lot after over a year about memory overclocking, and I've come to the conclusion that Masters really struggle to go over 4133MHz with reasonable voltages, especially considering the fact that other user encountered similar difficulties.
> However, if you don't want to share anything it's completely fine (by the way, I do not own the board anymore, so it's not like I wanted to copy your work)...I was just curious to know how you accomplished what no one else apparently could, because it seems a really unique result and I always love to learn something new. I don't know, maybe the key is that you have an ES RAM kit rated at an insanely high nominal speed? Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> I share all that I can, I m sorry.
> 
> To everyone here and for the kids at reddit, this song is for you. I begged for months to learn. Now I figure it out on my own and you think I should give that information away? Bahahaha, fat chance of that happening. I'm taking this information to my grave. Ya'll know who I am. Give it a listen. Thirty seconds in till a minute twelve is the best /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif @KingPin i'm going to show you who the real king is one day. It took me 8 months to conquer the internet on 4 dimm overclocking. Imagine what i'm going to do to your world records. When I beat you at your own ln2 benchmark game, i'm taking your persona. I will be the new kingpin and you will bow down to me.
> 
> https://youtu.be/QFcv5Ma8u8k?t=30
Click to expand...

LOL


----------



## munternet

Pretty solid setup. Got pretty good read, write and copy at modest vccio, vccsa and vdimm.

Tried tried 4300-16-16-16-34-2T but there was the odd error so I had to drop it back a notch to 4300-17-17-17-36-2T.
The vdimm difference between the two was substantial and the main performance difference was the cl16 is about 1ns quicker than the cl17.
Not sure what to make of my IMC. Working my way up through the frequencies but it's a slow process.

4300cl16: No amount of voltage or tinkering made it fully error free but these were the best.
vdimm 1.53v
vccio 1.2v
vccsa 1.3v

4300cl17: Error free
vdimm 1.42v
vccio 1.1v
vccsa 1.2v


----------



## Jpmboy

For some reason this thread has become more of a ram benchmark discussion with CPUs being volted like flash-bulbs. From one on how to obtain the best stability. A clear sign of when a subject has run it's course.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Just says 24/ 7 not 24/ 7/ 365


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Pretty solid setup. Got pretty good read, write and copy at modest vccio, vccsa and vdimm.
> 
> Tried tried 4300-16-16-16-34-2T but there was the odd error so I had to drop it back a notch to 4300-17-17-17-36-2T.
> The vdimm difference between the two was substantial and the main performance difference was the cl16 is about 1ns quicker than the cl17.
> Not sure what to make of my IMC. Working my way up through the frequencies but it's a slow process.
> 
> 4300cl16: No amount of voltage or tinkering made it fully error free but these were the best.
> vdimm 1.53v
> vccio 1.2v
> vccsa 1.3v
> 
> 4300cl17: Error free
> vdimm 1.42v
> vccio 1.1v
> vccsa 1.2v



Your KS needs 1.46V to run 5.2GHz? My 99K only needs 1.37V-ish BIOS volt to run 5.2GHz AVX if cooled enough.

Maybe try to lower the processor volt to 1.3V, or even lower. Lower processor temp provides better ram stability.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Your KS needs 1.46V to run 5.2GHz? My 99K only needs 1.37V-ish BIOS volt to run 5.2GHz AVX if cooled enough.
> 
> Maybe try to lower the processor volt to 1.3V, or even lower. Lower processor temp provides better ram stability.


But with small ffts on P95 26.6 it reports 1.296v under load. But you are right. Yours must be a better bin and I should probably run 5.1GHz since I can drop my heat and voltage substantially


----------



## bp7178

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Your KS needs 1.46V to run 5.2GHz? My 99K only needs 1.37V-ish BIOS volt to run 5.2GHz AVX if cooled enough.
> 
> Maybe try to lower the processor volt to 1.3V, or even lower. Lower processor temp provides better ram stability.


Without mentioning what LLC level voltages don’t mean a whole lot. My KS uses 1.480 BIOS LLC at 5.3ghz. The load voltages are much lower of course. 

@munternet a while back IIRC you were working up a 4600 CL 17. How far did you get? I’m doing the same but I think my limit is RAM cooling. The heat sinks on the Viper 4400 sticks isn’t the best. After I put a small fan over them the temps stay under 30c now even when over 1.500v DRAM.


----------



## munternet

bp7178 said:


> a while back IIRC you were working up a 4600 CL 17. How far did you get? I’m doing the same but I think my limit is RAM cooling. The heat sinks on the Viper 4400 sticks isn’t the best. After I put a small fan over them the temps stay under 30c now even when over 1.500v DRAM.


If anything I would say my performance results got worse although later I did head in a direction with some satisfying results. I got good results the first night I tried it and later there were errors so I tried punching the voltages but that didn't really help and things were inconsistent after a reboot sometimes and training wasn't 100% which seems to be a sign of problems sooner or later.

After chatting to @Carillo about the IMC lottery it seems odds are not on your side for getting a good one. Maybe the next gen will have more emphasis on IMC.

So for now I'm attempting a trade-off with high frequency and loose timings with low vdimm, io and sa for the best read,write and copy with latencies of around 35.

As far as the cooling goes I was wondering if air might be best because it gets into every nook and crannie unlike the water cooling I use which doesn't touch the capacitors etc but only the 8 chips on my sticks? It doesn't even cool the PCBs because of the foam packer stuck to the back of them.
My reported temp doesn't exceed ~37c.

There are some voltages that can be changed on the Asus TurboV Core that I would love to know more about that look very interesting if anyone can explain the useful ones in a language I can understand


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> But with small ffts on P95 26.6 it reports 1.296v under load. But you are right. Yours must be a better bin and I should probably run 5.1GHz since I can drop my heat and voltage substantially


I know some examples that someone managed to get 5000 17-18-36 stabled only when the core volt under 1.22V BIOS LLC6. You may try to downclock the processor to 5GHz and voltage to BIOS 1.25V-ish. Your IMC should control 4800 easily.


----------



## qwrty

What can I expect from this kit 4*8gb (bdie) on X299 platform with a 10920x ? 



Running right now @4000mhz 16-16-16-36-1T @ 1,4v (i havent test lower [email protected] rn, just testing, but no problem at 1.35v @3600mhz, kit spec btw)

edit: secondary timing @auto


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

qwrty said:


> What can I expect from this kit 4*8gb (bdie) on X299 platform with a 10920x ?
> 
> 
> 
> Running right now @4000mhz 16-16-16-36-1T @ 1,4v (i havent test lower [email protected] rn, just testing, but no problem at 1.35v @3600mhz, kit spec btw)
> 
> edit: secondary timing @auto


What you have right now is what to expect. I just received the same kit a couple days ago. I have it at 4000MHz 17,17,17,34 1T 1.3v and the Asus RAJA preset setting.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I have the same 3600c16 kit too but use 16-17-16-36 T1 1.41v for 4k mhz in quad channel still not dual.


----------



## qwrty

Thx 

I think i'm good with 1.40v @4000mhz 16-16-16-36-1T, running 3300% righ now of RAMTEST from KARHU.
All second/third timing Auto.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Good set mine on default timings did not score very well on benchmarks so I had to ask for help to tweak timings a bit then just started playing with them for optimum performance not stability seeing I don't run 4k 24/ 7/ 365.
I use 3200c14 for that it operates good for 1.35v everyday stuff.


----------



## qwrty

1.40v on bdie is fine for h24, but i dont know if I should prefer tight timing vs high frequency, I think 4000CL16 is a good sweetspot, between frequency and timing.


----------



## ThrashZone

qwrty said:


> 1.40v on bdie is fine for h24, but i dont know if I should prefer tight timing vs high frequency, I think 4000CL16 is a good sweetspot, between frequency and timing.


Hi,
Yeah dimm voltage isn't a big deal there 
Whether or not one frequency does better than another you just have to use regular benchmarks to see or at least is the way I do it since scores are the only gauge I really care about 
I'm not folding or doing bionics... so I really don't care how stable the memory is at high frequencies, it's so temporary if it corrupts the os or something I just restore a system image and no biggie keep going try something else.


----------



## Jpmboy

qwrty said:


> 1.40v on bdie is fine for h24, but i dont know if I should prefer tight timing vs high frequency, I think 4000CL16 is a good sweetspot, between frequency and timing.


4000c16 or 17 is the sweetspot for this (x299) platform. Whether or not tight vs high frequency is better... 4000c16 is both. The "better" really depends on what is being measured or needed, bandwidth or latency and 4000c16 really has both going for it. There is some gain to be had in tightening 2nds and 3rd timings, and ensuring that the RTLs are optimal (probably the most important timing), however, it can be a long road. It's just a matter of the return on the time investment.
Stable and fast ram is good whether you are gaming, publishing, folding or crunching. It is hard to think of a scenario where slower is better. This is overclock.net, right?


----------



## Gen.

3900 14-14 CR=2 1.55V


----------



## Gen.

3866 14-14-CR=2 1.55V


----------



## Gen.

3800 14-14 CR=1 1.51V


----------



## Gen.

3600 13-13 CR=1 1.55V


----------



## Gen.

3333 12-12 CR=1 1.55V


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Galaxy Hall of Fame Extreme Ceramic White 16Gb 2x8 (HOF4CXL1BST4000M19SF162K)
4500Mhz CL 17-19-19


----------



## Zemach

4200cl15 15 15 35 1t 1.56v QuickTest Memtest 100%+


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

oops


----------



## munternet

Zemach said:


> 4200cl15 15 15 35 1t 1.56v QuickTest Memtest 100%+


:thumb:
Will this work with a 15 in the iol offset with rtls and iols on auto? I found it gives better Aida scores.


----------



## sultanofswing

Wish I knew more about RAM overclocking to figure out how to overclock this "Crap" B die.


----------



## munternet

sultanofswing said:


> Wish I knew more about RAM overclocking to figure out how to overclock this "Crap" B die.


You should be able to get some good gains if you follow the link in my sig. There is a more comprehensive one on github I will add to my sig but that one is a good starter


----------



## bp7178

Zemach said:


> 4200cl15 15 15 35 1t 1.56v QuickTest Memtest 100%+


The bandwidth and latency look good but don't you have an error with Memtest?


----------



## bp7178

sultanofswing said:


> Wish I knew more about RAM overclocking to figure out how to overclock this "Crap" B die.


This guide is pretty good if you want to burn up a day testing. 

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

Color me skeptical with some of these "24/7" overclocks that are above 1.500v DRAM.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Jpmboy said:


> qwrty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.40v on bdie is fine for h24, but i dont know if I should prefer tight timing vs high frequency, I think 4000CL16 is a good sweetspot, between frequency and timing.
> 
> 
> 
> 4000c16 or 17 is the sweetspot for this (x299) platform. Whether or not tight vs high frequency is better... 4000c16 is both. The "better" really depends on what is being measured or needed, bandwidth or latency and 4000c16 really has both going for it. There is some gain to be had in tightening 2nds and 3rd timings, and ensuring that the RTLs are optimal (probably the most important timing), however, it can be a long road. It's just a matter of the return on the time investment.
> Stable and fast ram is good whether you are gaming, publishing, folding or crunching. It is hard to think of a scenario where slower is better. This is overclock.net, right? /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
Click to expand...

Yeah, thats the best you going to attain on x299
Theres a hard cap even if you can clock higher or can run higher frequencies. 50ns (+o- 2ns) depending on the board and when test is run is the best you can achieve for a 24/7 setting.

Problem is you be running out on rtl's already on higher frecuencys. I have my sticks at 61/61/61 & 63 the fourth stick wont do 61 it will get dropped, it wont match as the rest. Is either sacrifice that 63 for 59/61s x4 and 4000 or stick with it to achieve my 4200 overclock setting which i get a bit more performance.

Even that you will still lock at around tops 130 reads maybe 110 w&c as best case scenario on a 7980xe With 32x+ cache if lucky...

I also think the settings used can give errors out in another systems bcuz of that cap / limitation. You test and you see some gains but, this limit prevents this errors to show in hci/ramtest bcuz of that hardcap 
on bw limitations limiting the ram perse to is full potential at settings used.

I mean if i cant trigger a error as of now fine thats how shes rolling/staying but cant expect to use same settings on another system with the same sticks knowing this hardcap in x299.


----------



## Zemach

bp7178 said:


> The bandwidth and latency look good but don't you have an error with Memtest?


I tested it until 500%. No errors were found and played Game for another 8 hours. I found no problems.


----------



## Zemach

munternet said:


> :thumb:
> Will this work with a 15 in the iol offset with rtls and iols on auto? I found it gives better Aida scores.


I set to Auto for iol offset because Iol already have good values.


----------



## sultanofswing

bp7178 said:


> This guide is pretty good if you want to burn up a day testing.
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md
> 
> Color me skeptical with some of these "24/7" overclocks that are above 1.500v DRAM.



Tried reading over a lot of that and didn't have much luck. Think i will stick with XMP and call it a day, Intel system so I don't need the extra bandwidth.


----------



## rares495

bp7178 said:


> This guide is pretty good if you want to burn up a day testing.
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md
> 
> Color me skeptical with some of these "24/7" overclocks that are above 1.500v DRAM.





1.5V is nothing for B-die. XOC benching is done with 1.8-1.9V


----------



## zGunBLADEz

rares495 said:


> 1.5V is nothing for B-die. XOC benching is done with 1.8-1.9V


to my understanding this is not a benching topic.. kind of missleading to show not stable settings here '"WITH PROOF" so if new users see users with "overclock and timings" just showing an aida mem bench with not a screen whats o ever with hci/ramtest or gsat to back it up i would not loose sleep over those settings shown.
1-2 hrs is not enough to call a set stable either.

24/7 vs benching settings dont match and shouldnt be posted here for those main reasons.


----------



## rares495

zGunBLADEz said:


> to my understanding this is not a benching topic.. kind of missleading to show not stable settings here '"WITH PROOF"
> 24/7 vs benching settings dont match.




Never said anything about stable or not stable. Yes, it is misleading to post results which are not stable, but the question is whether or not 1.5V is accepted for 24/7 use. And I say it is.



And even if there was any degradation, it would be over the course of several years. And DDR5 is right around the corner anyway.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

rares495 said:


> My point is 1.5V is fine and even if there was any degradation, it would be over the course of several years. And DDR5 is right around the corner anyway.


i would not loose sleep over ddr5 any time soon even if is released today. i would wait for good kits in the 2-3yr period..

Main reason ddr3 beated ddr4 for a good while


----------



## rares495

zGunBLADEz said:


> i would not loose sleep over ddr5 any time soon even if is released today. i would wait for good kits in the 2-3yr period..
> 
> Main reason ddr3 beated ddr4 for a good while





I know that but we'll be forced to buy DDR5 for Zen4/Intel whatever Skylake refresh.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

rares495 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would not loose sleep over ddr5 any time soon even if is released today. i would wait for good kits in the 2-3yr period..
> 
> Main reason ddr3 beated ddr4 for a good while
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know that but we'll be forced to buy DDR5 for Zen4/Intel whatever Skylake refresh.
Click to expand...


Well, depends lots of users ride for example 4xxx series for a good while. I ride mine till 8700k didnt see a need to swap that. I jumped from 2500k/3770k to 4790k then i saw no need to jump to broadwell , skylake and kabylake it was null at best. So took a break.


----------



## munternet

bp7178 said:


> This guide is pretty good if you want to burn up a day testing.
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md
> 
> Color me skeptical with some of these "24/7" overclocks that are above 1.500v DRAM.


I agree with your comment about overclocks that are above 1.5v DRAM to a point. Well with my kit anyway. Doesn't scale with voltage very well. The IMC also doesn't seem to scale past a certain point.
I tried all sorts of combinations but none really perform on low DRAM, IO and SA volts. It seems to reach a point where I just throw volts at it with very little gain. Good for benching but not 24/7.
I can pass some tests but not a minimum of an hour of GSAT. I can pass hours of HCI on an unstable overclock.

Speaking of 24/7 overclocks, I'm about to hit some BFV with this one 

I know this is nothing special but I have been working my way through my ram overclocks with *minimal voltage*
and this is probably my last one with this hardware. End of the road.

5.1GHz, @4800cache, No AVX, 1.36v set, LLC5

4400-18-18-18-38-2T
DRAM 1.44v
VCCIO 1.175v
VCCSA 1.275v


----------



## Darkseid1979

A little test at 4200 1T 15-16-36 not sure at this point if it's better than my stable 4500 1T 17-19-39 1.48v (20000% Kharu & LinpackXtrem 35k 10p) but interesting for latency


----------



## qefir

Hi all. 

not bad? 1.5v mem , sa 1.3 vccio 1.2 full stable . Check in linx,games(bf1 bf5 nfs etc) but need radiators and him work 4533cr1 cl17-18 1.55v


----------



## Jpmboy

rares495 said:


> Never said anything about stable or not stable. Yes, it is misleading to post results which are not stable, but the question is whether or not 1.5V is accepted for 24/7 use. And I say it is.
> 
> *And even if there was any degradation, it would be over the course of several years. And DDR5 is right around the corner anyway.*


That's not relevant. Most users keep gear well beyond the launch of the next platform (and may have 3 or more generations running simultaneously). I know I do.
I do agree that 1.5V VDIMM, for the better ICs is not a problem... it never was. The VDIMM spec is set by INtel, not by the dram manufacturers as Vdimm has a direct impact on VTT and VPP DRR (not to mention DSQs and a host of other on-die voltages).

Just try to stick to the thread's topic of strong and stable ram OCs with proof that what you post is. Or, simply start a new thread more to your liking. :thumb:


----------



## sultanofswing

Anyone see anything I can improve here? 
I know I said I wasn't going to mess with it but I cannot leave well enough alone.

Biggest issue I face is running 4 dimms on a Daisy chain board so this may be all I am able to get stable.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

sultanofswing said:


> Anyone see anything I can improve here?
> I know I said I wasn't going to mess with it but I cannot leave well enough alone.
> 
> Biggest issue I face is running 4 dimms on a Daisy chain board so this may be all I am able to get stable.


Yes, try to retain rtls. 58/58/66/59 will be unstable. Try to retain with 58/58/59/59. According to one of the older ddr4 guides, each rtl should be no farther apart than 2 from any adjacent rtl.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Hi, 

I need some assistance. These timings popped an error in karhu at about 4 hours in or right after the 4 hour mark.
Looking to get this profile to be karhu stable. 
Voltages - 

vdimm-1.58v
system agent- 1.35v
IO- 1.35v

What is the smallest change I can make to the timings that will have the biggest impact on stability while having the smallest impact on performance/latency? The profile would fail karhu within 30 minutes if using lower system agent and io values, same with vdimm voltage. Trying to get this karhu stable without having to add any additional voltage. tfaw should be listed as 16, my mistake, filled in these timings after a cmos clear for the screenshot for this post.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Hi,
> 
> I need some assistance. These timings popped an error in karhu at about 4 hours in or right after the 4 hour mark.
> Looking to get this profile to be karhu stable.
> Voltages -
> 
> vdimm-1.58v
> system agent- 1.35v
> IO- 1.35v
> 
> What is the smallest change I can make to the timings that will have the biggest impact on stability while having the smallest impact on performance/latency? The profile would fail karhu within 30 minutes if using lower system agent and io values, same with vdimm voltage. Trying to get this karhu stable without having to add any additional voltage. tfaw should be listed as 16, my mistake, filled in these timings after a cmos clear for the screenshot for this post.



3900C14 is insane. You may need ram fans when your VDIMM is higher than 1.5V. Those ram fans from GSkill only cost 20 bucks or so.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3900C14 is insane. You may need ram fans when your VDIMM is higher than 1.5V. Those ram fans from GSkill only cost 20 bucks or so.



It's quite fast, hoping to stabilize it for daily use though not quite as insane as what the apex xi can do . That board is amazing for memory oc. I had a 140mm fan directly over the ram. Temperatures maxed out on the hottest stick at 39.5c. Not sure if it is the timings or if it is strictly heat related. Maybe I should also get one of those tiny noctua fans and place it in a manner where it can blow heat in between/throughout the sticks so that capacitors and stuff gets cooled?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> It's quite fast, hoping to stabilize it for daily use though not quite as insane as what the apex xi can do . That board is amazing for memory oc. I had a 140mm fan directly over the ram. Temperatures maxed out on the hottest stick at 39.5c. Not sure if it is the timings or if it is strictly heat related. Maybe I should also get one of those tiny noctua fans and place it in a manner where it can blow heat in between/throughout the sticks so that capacitors and stuff gets cooled?


The software DIMM temp can only be used as references. A case fan above the ram might not be enough. My experience is that, 12hrs MT cannot be done when the VDIMM is higher than 1.5V without fans on the rams. Maybe try to get an NF A4 fan and see if that works.


----------



## rares495

Jpmboy said:


> That's not relevant. Most users keep gear well beyond the launch of the next platform (and may have 3 or more generations running simultaneously). I know I do.
> I do agree that 1.5V VDIMM, for the better ICs is not a problem... it never was. The VDIMM spec is set by INtel, not by the dram manufacturers as Vdimm has a direct impact on VTT and VPP DRR (not to mention DSQs and a host of other on-die voltages).
> 
> Just try to stick to the thread's topic of strong and stable ram OCs with proof that what you post is. Or, simply start a new thread more to your liking. :thumb:


Yeah, I mainly wanted to touch on the sensitive 1.5V topic. Some people are freaking out when they see that and they seem to disregard stability results because of it.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The software DIMM temp can only be used as references. A case fan above the ram might not be enough. My experience is that, 12hrs MT cannot be done when the VDIMM is higher than 1.5V without fans on the rams. Maybe try to get an NF A4 fan and see if that works.





That's the fan I was thinking about. The fan over the dimms only cools the spreaders/chips so I gotta see if maybe if I keep everything under the hood cool enough by blowing air in between with the nf a4 fan, maybe it can get stabilitized at higher voltages. From what I understand memtest stability falls off around 1.6vish right? Maybe i'm just too close to that.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> That's the fan I was thinking about. The fan over the dimms only cools the spreaders/chips so I gotta see if maybe if I keep everything under the hood cool enough by blowing air in between with the nf a4 fan, maybe it can get stabilitized at higher voltages. From what I understand memtest stability falls off around 1.6vish right? Maybe i'm just too close to that.


Yeah. IMO any VDIMM over 1.5V should have fans directly point to the DIMMs.


----------



## Jpmboy

XGS-Duplicity said:


> That's the fan I was thinking about. The fan over the dimms only cools the spreaders/chips so I gotta see if maybe if I keep everything under the hood cool enough by blowing air in between with the nf a4 fan, maybe it can get stabilitized at higher voltages. From what I understand memtest stability falls off around 1.6vish right? Maybe i'm just too close to that.


THe Gelid 50mm fans work very well too. :thumb:


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Well this happened. Wish me luck. [email protected] was unstable.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

False alarm. Too sensitive to dram voltage increases. tried 15-16-16, 15-15-15 and 16-15-15 with auto timings none were stable. Maybe I have to move up to 16-16-16 for 4266. [email protected] is however usable so far. Had trained [email protected] but when I got into windows it was like I was at 20 fps or something. couldn't get 4300/4000 trained at 16cas. Not sure what all of my options are at this point
.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Testing this now. Pretty sure it's going to error due to heat. This one is getting hot fast. I need that small noctua fan asap lol. EDIT: errored at 44 minutes in. I wonder if I need to raise trfc to something like 320ish. Or maybe I could keep trfc at 280 and lower trefi to 32768. Or should I try lowering the core/cache by 1 bin? maybe another tick of vcore? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. gonna take it for a spin in some games to see if its usable

2nd edit: A cpu internal error popped up in hwinfo64 during a game. c16-4266 is demanding more vcore so I added 10mv. Will throw it back in memtest.


----------



## bp7178

Zemach said:


> I tested it until 500%. No errors were found and played Game for another 8 hours. I found no problems.


Doesn't it say "Error Count: 1" on Memtest?


----------



## bp7178

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yeah. IMO any VDIMM over 1.5V should have fans directly point to the DIMMs.


This is my experience for sure. Once I go over 1.5v as soon as they get too warm the stability is gone.


----------



## bp7178

rares495 said:


> 1.5V is nothing for B-die. XOC benching is done with 1.8-1.9V


Its not the voltage its the heat that comes with it. XOC couldn't be further from 24/7 but solves the heat problem.


----------



## Zemach

bp7178 said:


> Doesn't it say "Error Count: 1" on Memtest?


It was an error from my previous tests. I reduced the voltage but found an error so I increased the voltage. Then press stop and test again. Error Number: 1 appears, but it came from a previous test because I didn't restart the program. You can observe that there is no error on the right side.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

I'm noticing a pattern for how my sticks are scaling. I'm eager to fill in the blanks. I'm guessing the blanks are something like 14-15-15-30/32 or 15-16-16-32/34 or whatever. anyone have any insight? Has anyone else noticed these types of patterns for how their sticks scales?



1.5v 3733 - 14-13-13-28/30
1.5v 3800 - 14-14-14-28/30
1.5v 3866 - ?????
1.5v 3900 - ?????
1.5v 3933 - 15-14-14-28/30
1.5v 4000 - 15-15-15-30/32
1.5v 4066 - ?????
1.5v 4100 - ?????
1.5v 4133 - 16-15-15-30/32
1.5v 4200 - 16-16-16-32/34


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I'm noticing a pattern for how my sticks are scaling. I'm eager to fill in the blanks. I'm guessing the blanks are something like 14-15-15-30/32 or 15-16-16-32/34 or whatever. anyone have any insight? Has anyone else noticed these types of patterns for how their sticks scales?
> 
> 
> 
> 1.5v 3733 - 14-13-13-28/30
> 1.5v 3800 - 14-14-14-28/30
> 1.5v 3866 - ?????
> 1.5v 3900 - ?????
> 1.5v 3933 - 15-14-14-28/30
> 1.5v 4000 - 15-15-15-30/32
> 1.5v 4066 - ?????
> 1.5v 4100 - ?????
> 1.5v 4133 - 16-15-15-30/32
> 1.5v 4200 - 16-16-16-32/34


If you don't know the numbers, just try to use Frequency/tCL.

For example, 4000/15=266.67, 4800/18=266.67. That they all can be stable under the same voltage.

Check G.Skill's bins, 4000C15D: 266.67 under 1.5V and 4800C18D: 266.67 under 1.5V

BUT don't take this as a solid rule, just for references.


----------



## munternet

Just loaded the new 1502 BIOS on the Gene XI.
Seems to be slightly more stable for my mid-level memory overclocks.
Aida scores look decent.

4400-17-17-17-36-2T
VDIMM 1.46
VCCIO 1.25
VCCSA 1.30


----------



## munternet

Not sure exactly what Asus did with the new BIOS but the level 3 cache latency is consistently slightly higher now but it does seem more stable. It was either 10.0 or 10.1 before.
Also, mode 1 seems to give a slightly better performance score in Aida and if you get an error or two in testing switch to mode 2 to loosen the overclock very slightly and get rid of the errors


----------



## Veii

Shouldn't we estimate IC binning by tRCD instead of CAS ?
tCL is fixable with voltage, while tRCD delay is not that much and actually would showcase IC and PCB issues between random kits :thinking:

Taking for example:
3600C14-15-15 @ 1.45v
3600C15-15-15 @ 1.4v

4133C19-21-21 @ 1.35v
4000C19-19-19 @ 1.35v

3600C15 flat would be better binning, first because it needs less voltage
But as both are equal in MT/s to tRCD , only voltage plays a role

4000C19 flat would be a better bin, even when 4133 is higher speed, tRCD 21 puts it far lower
4133 one would only win if it's on A1 PCB for example instead the 4000C19 on A0 
While 4400C19 flat A2 1.35v - would be a higher binning than 3600C16 flat
And maaybe equal to a 3600C15 flat if the PCB of this one would be A1, else the A2 one would still be a better option


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Veii said:


> Shouldn't we estimate IC binning by tRCD instead of CAS ?
> tCL is fixable with voltage, while tRCD delay is not that much and actually would showcase IC and PCB issues between random kits :thinking:
> 
> Taking for example:
> 3600C14-15-15 @ 1.45v
> 3600C15-15-15 @ 1.4v
> 
> 4133C19-21-21 @ 1.35v
> 4000C19-19-19 @ 1.35v
> 
> 3600C15 flat would be better binning, first because it needs less voltage
> But as both are equal in MT/s to tRCD , only voltage plays a role
> 
> 4000C19 flat would be a better bin, even when 4133 is higher speed, tRCD 21 puts it far lower
> 4133 one would only win if it's on A1 PCB for example instead the 4000C19 on A0
> While 4400C19 flat A2 1.35v - would be a higher binning than 3600C16 flat
> And maaybe equal to a 3600C15 flat if the PCB of this one would be A1, else the A2 one would still be a better option



How does one figure out which type of pcb their ram uses? Do certain pcbs work better on some boards than others?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

XGS-Duplicity said:


> How does one figure out which type of pcb their ram uses?


Use Thaiphoon Burner:


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Use Thaiphoon Burner:



Ok so I downloaded tburner, my ram has an A1 pcb, 10 layers. Is there a way I can use/leverage this information to my advantage? or does it not actually matter at this point since I already bought the ram? Should I have bought a different 4x8gb kit instead? If so, could you please recommend a 4x8gb kit that is at least 20% better than what I am using(if I upgrade ram kits i'm going to need at least 20% more performance than what i'm already getting).


----------



## Veii

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Use Thaiphoon Burner:
> 
> 
> XGS-Duplicity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so I downloaded tburner, my ram has an A1 pcb, 10 layers. Is there a way I can use/leverage this information to my advantage?
Click to expand...

Not only, but also 
Often Thaiphoon Burner does get it wrong and judges A2 kits as A0
You can notice it on the center of the Dimm , on the Traces at the center and on the IC position on the sides
























You'd want to take out one dimm and make very similar pictures like this
https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1746444-oc-ing-t-force-4133-cl18.html#post28423902

A1 and A2 kits are under a short trace layout
Especially A2 will cause max OC limits on not that great boards 
While both love voltage

A0 is easier to run and has the ICs further up:
It can run on the cheapest boards - while A1 & A2 are strongly dependent on Clean signal Integrity
As the board with a T-Topology will need to push a stronger but more separated signal

A2 kits run better on Daisy chain (if you use two) but you will have a harder time to use them T-Topology (at least not without work) 
Daisy chain does deliver 75% to the first two channels (well 2,4) and 25% of the remain impedance to the remain two (1,3)
While T-Topology does split up perfect 50% between 2,4 and 1,3 

A benefit of A1 vs A0 is lower tRP and lower row-row access delays (tRRD_S/L & tCCD_S/L)
Which results in lower tFAW and so overall "faster access time" 
Lowering tRP benefits getting low tRC - which overall helps with low tRFC

The same goes for A2 ~ also a short trace layout, while A2 kits are at least 30% more taxing
Running 4 of them will be an issue on non T-Topology boards and also have a loss in max freq OC compared to Daisy Chain
But you can go by, by pushing far more voltage - as they love voltage 

A2 mostly comes on >4133 kits but remains to be luck based
You have to closely take care where both capacitor and resistors are placed
a "real/legacy" A2 layout, will have nothing over the notch of it
A modified A2 like this vipers here, will have a resistor over the notch - effectively lowering stress









A1 kits have faster bank group access and are tiny bit faster on burst opperation/processing
They like a bit tighter timings than A2 but only go up till 4000~ 
After 4200 the difference between A1 and A2 shows
While A0 kits often peak at 4000 at best 

This post will get too long explaining the differences, and it always was a debate what now is better
- lower latency 4200, or
- mediocre timings on 4400-4600 
it's complicated and still a debate to this day


----------



## munternet

Really need a separate ram tuning discussion thread


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Veii said:


> Not only, but also
> Often Thaiphoon Burner does get it wrong and judges A2 kits as A0
> You can notice it on the center of the Dimm , on the Traces at the center and on the IC position on the sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd want to take out one dimm and make very similar pictures like this
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1746444-oc-ing-t-force-4133-cl18.html#post28423902
> 
> A1 and A2 kits are under a short trace layout
> Especially A2 will cause max OC limits on not that great boards
> While both love voltage
> 
> A0 is easier to run and has the ICs further up:
> It can run on the cheapest boards - while A1 & A2 are strongly dependent on Clean signal Integrity
> As the board with a T-Topology will need to push a stronger but more separated signal
> 
> A2 kits run better on Daisy chain (if you use two) but you will have a harder time to use them T-Topology (at least not without work)
> Daisy chain does deliver 75% to the first two channels (well 2,4) and 25% of the remain impedance to the remain two (1,3)
> While T-Topology does split up perfect 50% between 2,4 and 1,3
> 
> A benefit of A1 vs A0 is lower tRP and lower row-row access delays (tRRD_S/L & tCCD_S/L)
> Which results in lower tFAW and so overall "faster access time"
> Lowering tRP benefits getting low tRC - which overall helps with low tRFC
> 
> The same goes for A2 ~ also a short trace layout, while A2 kits are at least 30% more taxing
> Running 4 of them will be an issue on non T-Topology boards and also have a loss in max freq OC compared to Daisy Chain
> But you can go by, by pushing far more voltage - as they love voltage
> 
> A2 mostly comes on >4133 kits but remains to be luck based
> You have to closely take care where both capacitor and resistors are placed
> a "real/legacy" A2 layout, will have nothing over the notch of it
> A modified A2 like this vipers here, will have a resistor over the notch - effectively lowering stress
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A1 kits have faster bank group access and are tiny bit faster on burst opperation/processing
> They like a bit tighter timings than A2 but only go up till 4000~
> After 4200 the difference between A1 and A2 shows
> While A0 kits often peak at 4000 at best
> 
> This post will get too long explaining the differences, and it always was a debate what now is better
> - lower latency 4200, or
> - mediocre timings on 4400-4600
> it's complicated and still a debate to this day


Ok so i'm on a z390 aorus master, t-topology motherboard. Whats the very best 4x8gb kit I can buy for OC on this board with a 9900k? I want [email protected] on 4x8gb dimms. I don't care if I need 1.6v vdimm to power it and 1.4v sa/io, I just want cas 15 4400 on 4 dimms memtest stable. I want the very best kit possible. It has to be a matching 4x8gb kit. Is there like a ram kit rank list somewhere around here of what the truly most powerful kits are that can help me decide this? What type of pcb should I be getting? RGB sticks that work with gigabyte rgb fusion preferred. Whatever the #1 4x8gb kit for ocing on t-topology boards is, that's what I want.


----------



## munternet

This channel is really getting spammed off topic


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> This channel is really getting spammed off topic



This *IS* the dedicated ram thread. *It's also NOT a channel.* Is there a block feature on this website so I can block individual users/user posts? Maybe someone can tell Munternet how to use it so he isn't bothered by informative posts/questions for finding the best ram kits for achieving memtest stability at [email protected]? Also, if you don't like what you read, scroll past it, You no longer expect my behavior to revolve around your own preferences.


----------



## Veii

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Ok so i'm on a z390 aorus master, t-topology motherboard. Whats the very best 4x8gb kit I can buy for OC on this board with a 9900k? I want [email protected] on 4x8gb dimms. I don't care if I need 1.6v vdimm to power it and 1.4v sa/io, I just want cas 15 4400 on 4 dimms memtest stable. I want the very best kit possible. It has to be a matching 4x8gb kit. Is there like a ram kit rank list somewhere around here of what the truly most powerful kits are that can help me decide this? What type of pcb should I be getting? RGB sticks that work with gigabyte rgb fusion preferred. Whatever the #1 4x8gb kit for ocing on t-topology boards is, that's what I want.


So far i think the Viper Steels 4400C19-19 - showed on the picture, still are one of the best available kits
Not only do they go for about 130 USD but have a non taxing PCB 




Here is another example - although i got my cheapo 4000C19-19 vipers for near 90$ back before people started to buy them out thanks to BZ's Video 
There is no list so far, and likely you have to catch him on-stream (twitch) in order to get better informations
But i haven't seen better binned kits so far :thinking:
4400/19 would be 231.5 
There are apparently now G.Skill 3600C14-15-15 kits , but they are on A1 PCB at best
Early on there where HOF Extreme 4000 kits with a ceramic PCB - but also under A1 PCB 
Technically it's better, but for your request, something on A2 is needed 
T-Topology should do you well for 4 dimms, they will just need a bit higher impedance and a bit stronger voltage bump
But again, you already mentioned that


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Veii said:


> So far i think the Viper Steels 4400C19-19 - showed on the picture, still are one of the best available kits
> Not only do they go for about 130 USD but have a non taxing PCB
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HOIzoeehoo
> Here is another example - although i got my cheapo 4000C19-19 vipers for near 90$ back before people started to buy them out thanks to BZ's Video
> There is no limit so far, and likely you have to catch him on-stream (twitch) in order to get better informations
> But i haven't seen better binned kits so far :thinking:
> 4400/19 would be 231.5
> There are apparently now G.Skill 3600C14-15-15 kits , but they are on A1 PCB at best
> Early on there where HOF Extreme 4000 kits with a ceramic PCB - but also under A1 PCB
> Technically it's better, but for your request, something on A2 is needed
> T-Topology should do you well for 4 dimms, they will just need a bit higher impedance and a bit stronger voltage bump
> But again, you already mentioned that


Does viper come in 4x8gb kits at 4400?. I need a matching 4x8GB kit. I can't take a risk hoping 2 separate kits work right as the manufacturers say to get a full matching kit. I can't find any 4x8gb kits at this speed on their website.


----------



## Veii

munternet said:


> This channel is really getting spammed off topic


Who or what message was offtopic ?


----------



## Veii

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Does viper come in 4x8gb kits at 4400?. I need a matching 4x8GB kit. I can't take a risk hoping 2 separate kits work right as the manufacturers say to get a full matching kit. I can't find any 4x8gb kits at this speed on their website.


True didn't consider that 
They don't - hmm
I mean right now they are 40$ off
Can't you just do binning yourself and return-exchange bad kits ?
Usually shops should allow return down to a weekly period :thinking:

Viper is located in Taiwan and with a distribution center in Singapore
If you write them, they should be able to provide you with a matching out of the same serial number - batch, kit
Or you are annoying a bit the selling center and manually check the box to hit two kits with as close as possible serial number, guaranteeing you having nearly identical kits :thinking:

Don't know another option, i'm sorry 
Even if Viper would do binning for you, the 4400C19 are already strongly binned b-dies and production of B-die has stopped
You wouldn't get equal kits, it's just not how IC lottery works 
But you can at least try to match the serial number as close as possible, to get them from the same stamp

EDIT:
Actually another kit into consideration are Crucial Ballistix MAX / BLM2K8G44C19U4B
They are likely the same IC, as found on the 5000MT/s ready Gigabyte memory 
It's an barely experimented kit, and it will not run your flat CL15 that you wish - as this is b-dies work
But it's a consideration for higher than 4600 speeds, as micron kits are not taxing at all


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Veii said:


> True didn't consider that
> They don't - hmm
> I mean right now they are 40$ off
> Can't you just do binning yourself and return-exchange bad kits ?
> Usually shops should allow return down to a weekly period :thinking:
> 
> Viper is located in Taiwan and with a distribution center in Singapore
> If you write them, they should be able to provide you with a matching out of the same serial number - batch, kit
> Or you are annoying a bit the selling center and manually check the box to hit two kits with as close as possible serial number, guaranteeing you having nearly identical kits :thinking:
> 
> Don't know another option, i'm sorry
> Even if Viper would do binning for you, the 4400C19 are already strongly binned b-dies and production of B-die has stopped
> You wouldn't get equal kits, it's just not how IC lottery works
> But you can at least try to match the serial number as close as possible, to get them from the same stamp
> 
> EDIT:
> Actually another kit into consideration are Crucial Ballistix MAX / BLM2K8G44C19U4B
> They are likely the same IC, as found on the 5000MT/s ready Gigabyte memory
> It's an barely experimented kit, and it will not run your flat CL15 that you wish - as this is b-dies work
> But it's a consideration for higher than 4600 speeds, as micron kits are not taxing at all


Unfortunately i'm not willing to waste my time spending money on binning kits/abusing return policies in hopes of finding what i'm looking for. I am the very best and will try to contact patriot to see if they can give me a better bin or same batches as you recommended, thanks for your time! I'm going to stay away from micron since this is b-dies work. So many h8rs around here , it's like they mad I achieve great results, or they just mad they are having a hard time siphoning cash from me, or both! It's okay though, if you don't have h8rs, you are doing it wrong. Thanks for your help! I'm so awesome!   .


----------



## Veii

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Unfortunately i'm not willing to waste my time spending money on binning kits/abusing return policies in hopes of finding what i'm looking for. I am the very best and will try to contact patriot to see if they can give me a better bin or same batches as you recommended, thanks for your time! I'm going to stay away from micron since this is b-dies work. So many h8rs around here , it's like they mad I achieve great results, or they just mad they are having a hard time siphoning cash from me, or both! It's okay though, if you don't have h8rs, you are doing it wrong. Thanks for your help! I'm so awesome!   .


You are actually not abusing anything, because the 7 day return policy exists to return goods you don't like
Be it as a because the item didn't fit (didn't hold your expectations) or another reason which you never have to give explanation for 
Alright, i hope they will respond fast !
Twitter should be a possible place to contact them too, else maybe ping G.Skill on twitter asking for an A2 set of 4400CL19 kits 
or higher
Maybe 4400CL19 A1 would work too
Just a set of 4 dimms at least A1 or A2

Sadly as it remains lottery, no one will guarantee you your timings wish would work, it's just how it is on luck things
Someone has to do the binning for you 
Good Luck, i hope for a fast response from them :thumb:


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Veii said:


> You are actually not abusing anything, because the 7 day return policy exists to return goods you don't like
> Be it as a because the item didn't fit (didn't hold your expectations) or another reason which you never have to give explanation for
> Alright, i hope they will respond fast !
> Twitter should be a possible place to contact them too, else maybe ping G.Skill on twitter asking for an A2 set of 4400CL19 kits
> or higher
> Maybe 4400CL19 A1 would work too
> Just a set of 4 dimms at least A1 or A2
> 
> Sadly as it remains lottery, no one will guarantee you your timings wish would work, it's just how it is on luck things
> Someone has to do the binning for you
> Good Luck, i hope for a fast response from them :thumb:


I'll try all the major players I guess. Thank you for your guidance. I never thought to reach out directly to the manufacturer asking for something specific like this.


----------



## Lurifaks

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Unfortunately i'm not willing to waste my time spending money on binning kits/abusing return policies in hopes of finding what i'm looking for. I am the very best and will try to contact patriot to see if they can give me a better bin or same batches as you recommended, thanks for your time! I'm going to stay away from micron since this is b-dies work. So many h8rs around here , it's like they mad I achieve great results, or they just mad they are having a hard time siphoning cash from me, or both! It's okay though, if you don't have h8rs, you are doing it wrong. Thanks for your help! I'm so awesome!   .


Maby you should have tested the 4400 viper you had last time more before returning it


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Lurifaks said:


> Maby you should have tested the 4400 viper you had last time more before returning it



I never purchased patriot viper, maybe thinking of someone else perhaps?


----------



## Lurifaks

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I never purchased patriot viper, maybe thinking of someone else perhaps?


Thinking of Reachthesky


----------



## Zemach

Rough test 4133 Cl 14 14 14 34 1t 1.63v and 4400 Cl 15 15 15 35 2t 1.625 Memtest 100%


----------



## rares495

NVM


----------



## Veii

@Zemach isn't tFAW for you far to low ?
















4x tRRD_S is constant and always happening
tRRD_L can be variable and depends on IC & PCB quality for row-to-row refresh inside the same bankgroup
tFAW has to allow 4x tRRD_ back-to-back read and write commands to pass before closure
It won't allow a 5th one to pass, even when some call it fith ACTIVATE time window, it's forth activate time window and so has to be at least 4x tRRD_S (row-to-row to the different bankgroup)

Having it lower than let's say even 2x tRRD_S (to double) would only cause inserted wait-for-action delay thanks to tFAW
also not to forget you have wasted wait-for-action delay on tRAS
This are two sticks, soo you can use formula:
tRCD+tWR+tBL 
Where tBL here is a bank group of only 2
14+9+2=23 as lowest
or 28 as no delay transition 

tRFC is also a bit awkward, looking at this:
















Explanation:


Spoiler


----------



## Zemach

Veii said:


> @Zemach isn't tFAW for you far to low ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x tRRD_S is constant and always happening
> tRRD_L can be variable and depends on IC & PCB quality for row-to-row refresh inside the same bankgroup
> tFAW has to allow 4x tRRD_ back-to-back read and write commands to pass before closure
> It won't allow a 5th one to pass, even when some call it fith ACTIVATE time window, it's forth activate time window and so has to be at least 4x tRRD_S (row-to-row to the different bankgroup)
> 
> Having it lower than let's say even 2x tRRD_S (to double) would only cause inserted wait-for-action delay thanks to tFAW
> also not to forget you have wasted wait-for-action delay on tRAS
> This are two sticks, soo you can use formula:
> tRCD+tWR+tBL
> Where tBL here is a bank group of only 2
> 14+9+2=23 as lowest
> or 28 as no delay transition
> 
> tRFC is also a bit awkward, looking at this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explanation:
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I haven't done many tweaks yet. I just want to test it out.


----------



## Zemach

This voltage really does not work because during the daytime the air in my house is very hot.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Veii said:


> @*Zemach* isn't tFAW for you far to low ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x tRRD_S is constant and always happening
> tRRD_L can be variable and depends on IC & PCB quality for row-to-row refresh inside the same bankgroup
> tFAW has to allow 4x tRRD_ back-to-back read and write commands to pass before closure
> It won't allow a 5th one to pass, even when some call it fith ACTIVATE time window, it's forth activate time window and so has to be at least 4x tRRD_S (row-to-row to the different bankgroup)
> 
> Having it lower than let's say even 2x tRRD_S (to double) would only cause inserted wait-for-action delay thanks to tFAW
> also not to forget you have wasted wait-for-action delay on tRAS
> This are two sticks, soo you can use formula:
> tRCD+tWR+tBL
> Where tBL here is a bank group of only 2
> 14+9+2=23 as lowest
> or 28 as no delay transition
> 
> tRFC is also a bit awkward, looking at this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explanation:
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I have a question about trfc. Does it matter if trfc is less than tras X 10? For example, if I am using 15-15-15-32, is it okay to use 280 trfc?


----------



## Zemach

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I have a question about trfc. Does it matter if trfc is less than tras X 10? For example, if I am using 15-15-15-32, is it okay to use 280 trfc?


4400 I've never used it at 15 15 15 35 I used at 4200 cl 15 15 15 35 1t 278 I can use it.


----------



## ogider

How do z390 medium-range mainboards from MSI or GB work in terms of OC memory. higher clocks and tight timings.

I am asking because probably one of these models I will take (z490). And I like to have memory set quite high/tight.
I had 2x8 4266 c16. Atm 2x16 3700c14 14 14 29 295 cr1 

I usually had Asus or Asrock.


----------



## SunnyStefan

ogider said:


> How do z390 medium-range mainboards from MSI or GB work in terms of OC memory. higher clocks and tight timings.
> 
> I am asking because probably one of these models I will take (z490). And I like to have memory set quite high/tight.
> I had 2x8 4266 c16. Atm 2x16 3700c14 14 14 29 295 cr1
> 
> I usually had Asus or Asrock.



I'd lean towards MSI over Gigabyte. The MSI Z390I Gaming Edge AC Mini ITX is one of the best ITX Z390 mobos with regards to memory overclocking, I don't think Gigabyte has anything on par with it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> How do z390 medium-range mainboards from MSI or GB work in terms of OC memory. higher clocks and tight timings.
> 
> I am asking because probably one of these models I will take (z490). And I like to have memory set quite high/tight.
> I had 2x8 4266 c16. Atm 2x16 3700c14 14 14 29 295 cr1
> 
> I usually had Asus or Asrock.


Take MSI Z490i Unify. You will have a high chance of reaching 5000MHz+.


----------



## ogider

Thanks. MSI MEG Z490 Unify looking on paper quite good.And price is acceptable ..at last for me. Of coz reviews will give more answers.


----------



## MrHarris

Veii said:


> @Zemach isn't tFAW for you far to low ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x tRRD_S is constant and always happening
> tRRD_L can be variable and depends on IC & PCB quality for row-to-row refresh inside the same bankgroup
> tFAW has to allow 4x tRRD_ back-to-back read and write commands to pass before closure
> It won't allow a 5th one to pass, even when some call it fith ACTIVATE time window, it's forth activate time window and so has to be at least 4x tRRD_S (row-to-row to the different bankgroup)
> 
> Having it lower than let's say even 2x tRRD_S (to double) would only cause inserted wait-for-action delay thanks to tFAW
> also not to forget you have wasted wait-for-action delay on tRAS
> This are two sticks, soo you can use formula:
> tRCD+tWR+tBL
> Where tBL here is a bank group of only 2
> 14+9+2=23 as lowest
> or 28 as no delay transition
> 
> tRFC is also a bit awkward, looking at this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explanation:
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Where did you get the 28 from with no delay transition? Opposed to 23 as the lowest? 

Also, if my tFAW is usually the 16, you’re saying if I’m using 2 sticks of ram, to add 2 and make my tFAW 18?


----------



## Jpmboy

Some of these timing rules depend upon the specific operation - whether we are looking at a burst. sequential operation or whatever. Basically, (and according to micron's publications on FAW) lower FAW is better, until you cause a timing clash below the min of 4xRRD_s. At that point the microcode inserts an arbitrary delay to allow for any dependent operations to complete while holding the window open correcting the timing error. If the error is too large to correct, either the system fails or data propagation is corrupted.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Take MSI Z490i Unify. You will have a high chance of reaching 5000MHz+.


What CPU would be good in your opinion for memory overclocking? Cheers


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> What CPU would be good in your opinion for memory overclocking? Cheers


I would just go grab a 10900K.

Based on the Exp with CFL, 10900K should have the best chip quality, thus has a higher chance to get a great IMC. Besides, since my 9900k was a little faster than 9700k when testing the memory under the same settings, 10900K should be a better choice.


----------



## Salve1412

Trying to stabilize my 16GB G.Skill RAM at 4500 17-18-18-37 CR1 on a Apex XI with a 9900KS. Right now I can pass 15000% Karhu and 1000% HCI Memtest, but TestMem5 is giving me such a headache both with 1usmus_v3 and anta777 configurations: it's so inconsistent, sometimes (rarely) it passes, sometimes it shows error after a while, a couple of time it even BSODed...it seems to behave differently upon every reboot. Is it really such a better test than Karhu and HCI in finding instability? Does touching specific voltages/timings help with it?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Salve1412 said:


> Trying to stabilize my 16GB G.Skill RAM at 4500 17-18-18-37 CR1 on a Apex XI with a 9900KS. Right now I can pass 15000% Karhu and 1000% HCI Memtest, but TestMem5 is giving me such a headache both with 1usmus_v3 and anta777 configurations: it's so inconsistent, sometimes (rarely) it passes, sometimes it shows error after a while, a couple of time it even BSODed...it seems to behave differently upon every reboot. Is it really such a better test than Karhu and HCI in finding instability? Does touching specific voltages/timings help with it?


Try to enable trace centering and fix most of the timings manually.


----------



## Salve1412

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try to enable trace centering and fix most of the timings manually.


Trace centering is already enabled and most of secondaries and tertiaries are manually set (to be clear, all the timings reported in Asrock Timing Configurator window, including TWRPRE and IO-L Offset and excluding the remaining timings of the sliding bar). Should I relax specific timings as a starting point (for example I read somewhere that TestMem is particularly good at detecting unstable Trfc values: going from 315 to 338 doesn't seem to have made things better, though)? Maybe I could try to re-raise IO-L Offset from 15 to, let's say, 17 or 19 or even default 21.
Isn't such a huge gap between these test applications in terms of stability a bit odd? I mean 10000% Karhu Cache enabled and 1000% HCI against most of the time unstable TestMem5.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Salve1412 said:


> Trace centering is already enabled and most of secondaries and tertiaries are manually set (to be clear, all the timings reported in Asrock Timing Configurator window, including TWRPRE and IO-L Offset and excluding the remaining timings of the sliding bar). Should I relax specific timings as a starting point (for example I read somewhere that TestMem is particularly good at detecting unstable Trfc values: going from 315 to 338 doesn't seem to have made things better, though)? Maybe I could try to re-raise IO-L Offset from 15 to, let's say, 17 or 19 or even default 21.
> Isn't such a huge gap between these test applications in terms of stability a bit odd? I mean 10000% Karhu Cache enabled and 1000% HCI against most of the time unstable TestMem5.


It all depends on how stressful the software does to the ram. If it becomes stable randomly, you may try to manually adjust the data falling slope. It's under the skew control menu.

FYR: https://hwbot.org/newsflash/3939_xt..._for_b_die_memory_on_asus_maximus_viii_boards


----------



## Salve1412

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It all depends on how stressful the software does to the ram. If it becomes stable randomly, you may try to manually adjust the data falling slope. It's under the skew control menu.
> 
> FYR: https://hwbot.org/newsflash/3939_xt..._for_b_die_memory_on_asus_maximus_viii_boards


Thanks for the tips, I'll take a look at the guide. Well, it seems then that TestMem5 can be much more stressful than Karhu and HCI...good thing I decided to give it a shot while testing.


----------



## Gen.

Everything went well with 1.51V and 264 RFC.We must try 256


----------



## munternet

Salve1412 said:


> Thanks for the tips, I'll take a look at the guide. Well, it seems then that TestMem5 can be much more stressful than Karhu and HCI...good thing I decided to give it a shot while testing.


Since I started using TestMem5 and GSAT for testing I don't get any more crashes to desktop in BFV.
The pair of them make the ram tuning process pretty fast too 



Gen. said:


> Everything went well with 1.51V and 264 RFC.We must try 256


Nice looking overclock at low sa and io :thumb:
It looks like it would get faily good latency scores in Aida


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Well, I am certainly late to this party... I have read up on some things, but trying to get my thoughts into one place and fully understand what I should be doing here. I hvae been OCing CPU's and GPU's for 15+ years, but.... never really decided to get into RAM overclocking. Well, here I am.

I have 4x8 GB sticks of Corsair LPX 3000 15-17-17-35 which I can get booted into windows @ 3600 16-18-18-36 @ 1.4v but I have stability issues. At 16-19-19-38 I seem to be, maybe ok? I was testing with the "MemTestHelper2" I found on the github thread about this, but this group seems a lot more useful and I have no issues with spining up mint and using the google testing app instead as that seems like it would result in higher chance of fiding errors.

With that said, I am just not really sure where to go from here, and what all I should be tweaking. Trying to digest all of this info is a bit overwhelming as there are a lot of terms and a lot of settings I am just not fmailular with at all.

My Corsair sticks are Hynix, and I believe I they are 8Gb CJR sticks based on the presumed SOC's via the corsair numbering scheme.

Anyways, with that info, this is my ASRock timing config screenshot. I think based on my understanding, having RTL's of 66 across the board means things are not apparently totally out of whack? But if I understand it correct my tRFC should be lowered?

Also, I am not 100% sure how to validate my memory controller being able to handle this, does the google stress test provide insight to the system as a whole being stable? My 9900k has been a bit of a PITA, the volts it needs to be stable seem to be fine, but the heat it puts out has been just nuts. On a custom loop with ample rad space, I can't keep the thing cool. VCCIO is right now @ 1.15, with VCCSA @ 1.21. I am not sure if its actually stable, once I get more info here I plan to better test stability. But before I do that, I want to better understand tRFC, and all the other sub timings I likely should try and tweak first. Anyways, just not sure how to validate the RAM as stable, and then make sure the system fully loaded up is stable. Aida64? Realbench? Google stress app good enough?

Anyways, just trying to learn... Its a fun hobby, why not get better at it!

Aorus Elite - 9900k @ 5 GHz @ ~1.23 VRVOUT, now trying to push this RAM a bit!


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Some people say aida, some say gsat, some say karhu, some say hci memtest blah blah blah. It's all the same crap. pick a test and use it. I'll *never use gsat*. 

Here is my journey:
Reddit told me I needed aida64 so I bought aida 64
people here tell me aida64 sucked and told me to buy karhu so I bought karhu
then people here and people on reddit say no karhu sucks use gsat
blah blah blah
endless cycle of wasted money. "no buy my product, it's better".
Who knows whats best and frankly, who gives a **** at this point.


----------



## Salve1412

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Some people say aida, some say gsat, some say karhu, some say hci memtest blah blah blah. It's all the same crap. pick a test and use it. I'll *never use gsat*.
> 
> Here is my journey:
> Reddit told me I needed aida64 so I bought aida 64
> people here tell me aida64 sucked and told me to buy karhu so I bought karhu
> then people here and people on reddit say no karhu sucks use gsat
> blah blah blah
> endless cycle of wasted money. "no buy my product, it's better".
> Who knows whats best and frankly, who gives a **** at this point.


What's wrong with GSAT?


----------



## Gen.

1.23V.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

I don't want to use linux stuff, having to manually configure it instead of just pressing a button that says start or test like every other program. I also hear it puts a crazy load on the cpu/ram like unrealistic crazy, i don't see why i need to do that.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Ok, well I guess let’s not get hung up on the test to use. I have had AIDA for years, real bench and HCI are free, and I have no issues using Linux, and I typically prefer unrealistic loads because that guarantees me whatever I throw at it won’t cause instability. I’m not tying to set XOC records, I’m trying to have a stable PC.

Anyways, any advice on what settings I should be tweaking? HCI via Memtesthelper2 has been running overnight, I am showing 0 errors across the 14 threads I assigned (figured I’d leave windows a little headroom? Maybe this isn’t a good strategy..?) and its over 800% coverage across all 14, 0 errors and 0 errors in HWInfo. 

Does this ah least mean I’m in the ballpark of stability? What should I try and adjust next? Should I try and tighten up the secondary timings as they are all set to auto right now, retest, see what happens then see if I can bring those main timing down? I am not sure if be able to get 16-18-18-18-36 for example. I didn’t see any HCI errors after ~150% coverage with those settings, but I did have realbench issues pretty quickly... so I dialed it back to 16-19-19-38 and let HCI run all night to try and get a baseline of stability.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

A good example of how frustrating this stress testing can be, I passed 1000% of HCI last night and into this morning, and failed Asus Realbench after 46 minutes....

Is this indicative of my IMC not being up to it/not enough VCCIO or VCCSA?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> A good example of how frustrating this stress testing can be, I passed 1000% of HCI last night and into this morning, and failed Asus Realbench after 46 minutes....
> 
> Is this indicative of my IMC not being up to it/not enough VCCIO or VCCSA?


It also depends on whether your MB vendor has "unlocked" this exact ram chip model. Try IO/SA = 1.25V & see what will happen.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It also depends on whether your MB vendor has "unlocked" this exact ram chip model. Try IO/SA = 1.25V & see what will happen.


Testing now @ 1.25 for both in realbench 2.43.


----------



## bp7178

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> A good example of how frustrating this stress testing can be, I passed 1000% of HCI last night and into this morning, and failed Asus Realbench after 46 minutes....
> 
> Is this indicative of my IMC not being up to it/not enough VCCIO or VCCSA?


Is your 1.23v VROUT a load or idle reading?


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

bp7178 said:


> Is your 1.23v VROUT a load or idle reading?


Load. Right now in realbench its reading 1.250 VR VOUT. Its been 59 minutes stable thus far since my previous post.


----------



## Falkentyne

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Testing now @ 1.25 for both in realbench 2.43.


Realbench 2.43 is the old non AVX version right?
You were testing that instead of 2.56 now?


----------



## Jpmboy

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> A good example of how frustrating this stress testing can be, I passed 1000% of HCI last night and into this morning, and failed Asus Realbench after 46 minutes....
> 
> Is this indicative of my IMC not being up to it/not enough VCCIO or VCCSA?


If not fixed by the stuff you are trying now, realbench is likely not finding a ram error that HCi failed to find... it more likely failed at the CPU core, PCI bus (openCL) or from any OC on the GPU (or even some NV drivers will bork RB). At 46 min in to RB, check PCH temp and voltage and DMI voltages .


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Falkentyne said:


> Realbench 2.43 is the old non AVX version right?
> You were testing that instead of 2.56 now?


Oh, hmm. I thought I had downloaded the newest realbench a few weeks ago from asus... This is what I have been using for my CPU OC this entire time. Did I somehow get an older non-AVX version?!?! I guess that would explain why my realbench temps are lower then my AIDA FPU temps... Strange.

I had to head to my parents house for the weekend for some medical reasons, not COVID related... So my testing this week is over :/. And I can't check what version I have, but I didn't pull that number out of nowhere, so I must have an old version which is really, really aggravating as I have spent a week trying to dial in that 5 GHz OC, this 9900k has proved to be a PITA :/


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Jpmboy said:


> If not fixed by the stuff you are trying now, realbench is likely not finding a ram error that HCi failed to find... it more likely failed at the CPU core, PCI bus (openCL) or from any OC on the GPU (or even some NV drivers will bork RB). At 46 min in to RB, check PCH temp and voltage and DMI voltages .


In realbench I uncheck the GPU acceleration options once it gets up and running, no point in wasting power and loading the GPU up for nothing...

I was able to get a little over 2 hours stable in realbench before I had to leave. I will resume testing Sunday night. I still don't fully trust my 9900k OC. I was able to get 7 hours 46 minutes stable in realbench, missed the 8 hour mark which really bugs me. Anyways, I will have to test further.


----------



## Falkentyne

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Oh, hmm. I thought I had downloaded the newest realbench a few weeks ago from asus... This is what I have been using for my CPU OC this entire time. Did I somehow get an older non-AVX version?!?! I guess that would explain why my realbench temps are lower then my AIDA FPU temps... Strange.
> 
> I had to head to my parents house for the weekend for some medical reasons, not COVID related... So my testing this week is over :/. And I can't check what version I have, but I didn't pull that number out of nowhere, so I must have an old version which is really, really aggravating as I have spent a week trying to dial in that 5 GHz OC, this 9900k has proved to be a PITA :/


Yes, Realbench 2.56 is the one you want to use. 2.43 is ancient.


----------



## blodflekk

Definitely not a memory issue if you can pass HCI memtest and fail realbench. Although I test all threads and 90% of total capacity. So for 32GB that equals 29491MB distrubuted across all threads.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Falkentyne said:


> Yes, Realbench 2.56 is the one you want to use. 2.43 is ancient.


Whats weird is that seems to be the latest on the Asus website.... Had to very specifically google to find it from asus direct. Strange....



blodflekk said:


> Definitely not a memory issue if you can pass HCI memtest and fail realbench. Although I test all threads and 90% of total capacity. So for 32GB that equals 29491MB distrubuted across all threads.


And I guess good to know. But it could be a IMC or something issue, correct? HCI doesn't' really load the CPU up all that hard seemingly, so while it is clearly stressing the IMC and the RAM, when the CPU is actually being pushed along with the IMC, something isn't happy about life.

I am running 46 ring, 5 GHz all core, and that seems to be "fine", although I Am going to try and run 2.56 realbench now that I have it and see if anything with my CPU stability changes.

Is there a "fast way" to check RAM stability? I want to start working on lowering timings and don't want to wait 5+ hours each time to know if a single thing worked or not. Also, any tertiary timings I should be working on? I am sort of confused what I should try to set them at.

Looking here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html it looks like I really should go in there and set my Secondary timings as they are all over the place...


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

One more conceptual question for me to understand.

If I pass ~1000% HCI (using memtesthelper 2), this indicates the memory itself is fine, but does it reflect the IMC being fine as well?

I am asking for this reason: Say I determine my system is 100% rock solid stable with CPU @ 5ghz, ring ratio at x46, RAM @ 3600 16-19-19-38. If I go and try and pull timing down, say 16-18-18-36, and run HCI and pass 1000%, I should still be totally, 100% stable? OR, would it be totally possible and actually likely that I may either need a little more vcore, or more IO or SA volts? 

Just trying to understand how the IMC works in relation to tightening timings. I know I can't go over 3600, I got some fantstical BIOS issues when it was trying to train the RAM past 3600 @ 1.41v which is about as high as I personally am willing to go.


----------



## blodflekk

If you can prove cpu is stable with something demanding like linpack extreme and cache/uncore/ring is stable with aida64 cache test then in theory any instability should be coming from strictly memory and memory related voltages. You could always test your theory with cpu at default as well.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> One more conceptual question for me to understand.
> 
> If I pass ~1000% HCI (using memtesthelper 2), this indicates the memory itself is fine, but does it reflect the IMC being fine as well?
> 
> I am asking for this reason: Say I determine my system is 100% rock solid stable with CPU @ 5ghz, ring ratio at x46, RAM @ 3600 16-19-19-38. If I go and try and pull timing down, say 16-18-18-36, and run HCI and pass 1000%, I should still be totally, 100% stable? OR, would it be totally possible and actually likely that I may either need a little more vcore, or more IO or SA volts?
> 
> Just trying to understand how the IMC works in relation to tightening timings. I know I can't go over 3600, I got some fantstical BIOS issues when it was trying to train the RAM past 3600 @ 1.41v which is about as high as I personally am willing to go.


I might be wrong but I don't expect those ram sticks would push the IMC anywhere near it's limit.
I find the easiest way to find the lower limits on power is to drop each in turn until there are errors quickly in the likes of GSAT. Raise a couple of notches and move on to the next setting


----------



## Chobbit

Hi guys, a friend has built a Ryzen 5 3600 / Auros B450 Pro build with 16GB Vengence pro 3200: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...RGB-Black/p/CMW16GX4M2C3200C16#tab-tech-specs

Now he only built it two days ago and he's not an overclocker but he's turned on the XMP as you would expect to get the quoted clocks/timings but it's randomly Blue screening (gaming, watching streams & once when his desktop started) but the BSOD message is always 'stop code memory management'. Obviously social distancing means I can't just go around and help.

I suspect it's incorrect voltages with XMP and leaving everything else on Auto, so I've told him to turn the XMP off and we'll try setting the values manually:

Latency16-18-18-36
Voltage1.35V
Speed3200MHz

However what should the vccio and vccsa voltages be for this setup? so we can make sure it's definetly getting the correct power across the board.

Cheers


----------



## BotSkill

Chobbit said:


> Hi guys, a friend has built a Ryzen 5 3600 / Auros B450 Pro build with 16GB Vengence pro 3200: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...RGB-Black/p/CMW16GX4M2C3200C16#tab-tech-specs
> 
> 
> 
> Now he only built it two days ago and he's not an overclocker but he's turned on the XMP as you would expect to get the quoted clocks/timings but it's randomly Blue screening (gaming, watching streams & once when his desktop started) but the BSOD message is always 'stop code memory management'. Obviously social distancing means I can't just go around and help.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect it's incorrect voltages with XMP and leaving everything else on Auto, so I've told him to turn the XMP off and we'll try setting the values manually:
> 
> 
> 
> Latency16-18-18-36
> 
> Voltage1.35V
> 
> Speed3200MHz
> 
> 
> 
> However what should the vccio and vccsa voltages be for this setup? so we can make sure it's definetly getting the correct power across the board.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers


This is Intel DDR4 memory thread. IT is advisable to ask for help on AMD thread.

Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 2 XL folosind Tapatalk


----------



## munternet

BotSkill said:


> This is Intel DDR4 memory thread. IT is advisable to ask for help on AMD thread.
> 
> Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 2 XL folosind Tapatalk


Here is the link  https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...-ryzen-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread.html


----------



## Chobbit

munternet said:


> Here is the link  https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...-ryzen-ddr4-24-7-memory-stability-thread.html


Thanks my mistake


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> I might be wrong but I don't expect those ram sticks would push the IMC anywhere near it's limit.
> I find the easiest way to find the lower limits on power is to drop each in turn until there are errors quickly in the likes of GSAT. Raise a couple of notches and move on to the next setting /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


I am running 4 DIMMS, but I tend to agree. I guess I really need to get mint on a flashdrive so I can boot into that and try GSAT. 

I did finally just pass realbench for 8 hours. So things are finally on their way to stability. VR VOUT seems to droop real bad under load, 1.324 at idle, 1.270 under load. But, that’s a question for the 9900k OC thread to help me answer...


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> I am running 4 DIMMS, but I tend to agree. I guess I really need to get mint on a flashdrive so I can boot into that and try GSAT.
> 
> I did finally just pass realbench for 8 hours. So things are finally on their way to stability. VR VOUT seems to droop real bad under load, 1.324 at idle, 1.270 under load. But, that’s a question for the 9900k OC thread to help me answer...


That's great that things are looking stable :thumb:
Here is a link to enable a linux terminal in windows (WSL) https://www.windowscentral.com/install-windows-subsystem-linux-windows-10
I'm no expert by any means but I saved the commands on my PC at home that I used to set up stressapptest. I can post them later when I finish work if you need them 
One tip when setting up. You can't see the password you are typing but keep typing carefully and remember the keys you press


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> That's great that things are looking stable /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
> Here is a link to enable a linux terminal in windows (WSL) https://www.windowscentral.com/install-windows-subsystem-linux-windows-10
> I'm no expert by any means but I saved the commands on my PC at home that I used to set up stressapptest. I can post them later when I finish work if you need them /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> One tip when setting up. You can't see the password you are typing but keep typing carefully and remember the keys you press /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif


Oh, you can do it through that method? I had not considered that. I run Ubuntu like this already, I am no Linux guru but I can certainly get around. I didn’t realize running a Linux kernel in Windows was a viable way to test system stability. But I suppose why not... your just stressing the hardware.

If you can post them, that would be great! Thanks!!


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

I tried to boot into mint from a USB stick, it didn't want to work. Gave me some uefi errors. I just had a terminal window, I could navigate around, but I thought it should be a GUI..? I used the cinnamon option. Anyways, until I figure that out.... or munternet gets home to help me get it working under Windows, I am testing some things to at least get a baseline... Right now, I have dropped my tRAS to 36 from 38, I can't bring tCL, tRDC or tRP down without it crashing on boot, and I adjusted a lot of the secondary timings as well per https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html

Forgive me as I am already in a test and don't want to spin up chrome (I have a LOT of tabs open... don't want to put that on the system), but I will take a screenshot of ASRock timing control. My read speeds were slightly up, write was up a bit, and copy was up even more! With Latency of 48ns, which is a solid reduction from ~53 at both stock and 3600 16-19-19-38. 10% Latency reduction and higher bandwidth aint balf bad. And I bet I can reduce some of those secondary timings as well. Pic below for reference.


----------



## Falkentyne

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> One more conceptual question for me to understand.
> 
> If I pass ~1000% HCI (using memtesthelper 2), this indicates the memory itself is fine, but does it reflect the IMC being fine as well?
> 
> I am asking for this reason: Say I determine my system is 100% rock solid stable with CPU @ 5ghz, ring ratio at x46, RAM @ 3600 16-19-19-38. If I go and try and pull timing down, say 16-18-18-36, and run HCI and pass 1000%, I should still be totally, 100% stable? OR, would it be totally possible and actually likely that I may either need a little more vcore, or more IO or SA volts?
> 
> Just trying to understand how the IMC works in relation to tightening timings. I know I can't go over 3600, I got some fantstical BIOS issues when it was trying to train the RAM past 3600 @ 1.41v which is about as high as I personally am willing to go.


To test IMC (L3 cache), use Prime95 29.8 build 6, disable AVX in options, test fixed FFT size 112K-112K to test IMC's effect on CPU VCORE on HT enabled chips (if you get a CPU Cache L0 error during this test, you must raise VCCIO or /and VCCSA).

To test IMC (RAM), use FFT Size 256K-512K, AVX disabled also.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Falkentyne said:


> To test IMC (L3 cache), use Prime95 29.8 build 6, disable AVX in options, test fixed FFT size 112K-112K to test IMC's effect on CPU VCORE on HT enabled chips (if you get a CPU Cache L0 error during this test, you must raise VCCIO or /and VCCSA).
> 
> To test IMC (RAM), use FFT Size 256K-512K, AVX disabled also.


Thanks for the info! This is a fantastic way to figure out if I am stable as I drop my VCCIO/VCCSA once I dial in a RAM speed and latencies. Thanks again!


----------



## AndrejB

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> I tried to boot into mint from a USB stick, it didn't want to work. Gave me some uefi errors. I just had a terminal window, I could navigate around, but I thought it should be a GUI..? I used the cinnamon option. Anyways, until I figure that out.... or munternet gets home to help me get it working under Windows,


If you have mint terminal that's enough to get gsat running.

If you want linux in windows:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10

I installed ubuntu, updated the packages and installed gsat.

Sorry can't spoon feed, got to go to bed, Google's your friend.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

AndrejB said:


> If you have mint terminal that's enough to get gsat running.
> 
> If you want linux in windows:
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
> 
> I installed ubuntu, updated the packages and installed gsat.
> 
> Sorry can't spoon feed, got to go to bed, Google's your friend.


Ah, I thought you "needed" mint for some reason. I have Ubuntu on my machine already via the linux kernal under windows 10 thingy... Is there no downside to running it like this though? Is Windows somehow limiting the "virtual linux" client from full hardware stress? I guess that doesn't make a tone of sense though, just not sure how that works totally. Its not like running a VM, so I guess it would be fine?

Anyways, that was simple to setup. Found the program on GitHub, simple apt get install in my Ubuntu instal in Win 10 and away it went. I ran the settings in my above screenshot for over 200% on HCI, so I’m going to call that fine, and tomorrow I’ll try and bring them down more. Maybe I can get 16-19-19-35 and tighter secondary timings. We shall find out tomorrow!


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Ah, I thought you "needed" mint for some reason. I have Ubuntu on my machine already via the linux kernal under windows 10 thingy... Is there no downside to running it like this though? Is Windows somehow limiting the "virtual linux" client from full hardware stress? I guess that doesn't make a tone of sense though, just not sure how that works totally. Its not like running a VM, so I guess it would be fine?
> 
> Anyways, that was simple to setup. Found the program on GitHub, simple apt get install in my Ubuntu instal in Win 10 and away it went. I ran the settings in my above screenshot for over 200% on HCI, so I’m going to call that fine, and tomorrow I’ll try and bring them down more. Maybe I can get 16-19-19-35 and tighter secondary timings. We shall find out tomorrow!


I made up a little GSAT tutorial https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...windows-subsystem-linux-wsl.html#post28448038
It's not finished yet but it's a start


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm having quite the fight with my RAM lol. It runs fine on 4200CL16 but runs at 1.554v and even tho it's stable and not all that hot (high 40's) I'm trying to drop it down to like, 1.45v to prepare for the summer heat and just to prevent instability if they do go over 50c.

The problem I'm having is the simple fact that 1.45v doesn't allow me to run 4200 at any timings on these low binned B-Die's so I have to drop to 4000. However, ANY combinations of timings, even auto, will not train RTL/IO at all. 4200 trains fine, 3866 trains fine, 3900 trains fine, 4000 is all over the place going to like 66/71/5/11 and such..

I tried everything from auto to 16-16-16-32 and in between with auto sub timings, super loose manual, super tight manual, it just refuses to train.

I'm on 3900 16-16-16-32-280 now with sort of tight sub timings and that works just fine, it's on ~250% HCI 12GB and seems to run fine, 41-42c on the sticks so quite the improvement there, but I don't get why 4000 will not train.. even on insane voltages like 1.35 SA 1.30 IO 1.55 DRAM and 4000 18-19-19-39-400 it refuses to train...


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> I made up a little GSAT tutorial https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...windows-subsystem-linux-wsl.html#post28448038
> It's not finished yet but it's a start /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


Nice! Should be pretty simple and super useful for folks in the future.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Ok so i'm tuning some ram


here is my situation:


rtls/align well up till 3900. If i try to train xmp or c15 4000, i get rtls in the 60s. So i'm trying to squeeze as much out of the sticks before latency drops off at 4000.


[email protected] rtls 57/57/59/59 1.5v


I then got [email protected] stable by adjust rtls to 57/58/59/59 + busclock. 1.5v


Last night I try [email protected] 58/58/59/59 + busclock 1.5v


I would guess that [email protected] should really be 15-15-14-31 for the extra 33mhz because trcd/trp must match on 9900k but I tried [email protected] anyway to see if it would work.
I got an error after 11 hours of karhu. hottest stick was 40c. I'm unsure whether this error is strictly heat related or if it is due to timings, specifically trcd. not sure if i should adjust something with timings or what not. Here is what i'm using.


----------



## ViTosS

Guys I'm 1000% stable in HCI MemTest and stable in all the tests of MemTest86 (the one you run from USB stick), my CPU OC is also stable through RealBench 2.56 for 8h running, so do I need anything else to test the stability of the RAM besides these 2 programs I mentioned? Because apparentely my uncore ratio is unstable (I was using 48x multiplier and was having some PC freezes without BSOD and it seems solved when I reduced to 45x), but for some reason RealBench 2.56 didn't accuse unstable my CPU cache/uncore clock when I ran it with 48x multiplier... Is there any specific stress test that goes directly to test the cache clock/uncore clock OC?


----------



## Falkentyne

ViTosS said:


> Guys I'm 1000% stable in HCI MemTest and stable in all the tests of MemTest86 (the one you run from USB stick), my CPU OC is also stable through RealBench 2.56 for 8h running, so do I need anything else to test the stability of the RAM besides these 2 programs I mentioned? Because apparentely my uncore ratio is unstable (I was using 48x multiplier and was having some PC freezes without BSOD and it seems solved when I reduced to 45x), but for some reason RealBench 2.56 didn't accuse unstable my CPU cache/uncore clock when I ran it with 48x multiplier... Is there any specific stress test that goes directly to test the cache clock/uncore clock OC?


Some things you can use to test IMC relation to CPU stability (Cache, possibly RAM):

1) AIDA64 "Stress Cache"->HWinfo64 sensors "WHEA" section and look for errors.
2) Prime95 29.8 build 6, 112K-112K in-place AVX *Disabled* --look for CPU Cache L0 errors in HWinfo64.
3) Prime95 29.8 b6, 256-512K (not in place), AVX disabled, look for L0 errors or crashed threads.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Guys I'm 1000% stable in HCI MemTest and stable in all the tests of MemTest86 (the one you run from USB stick), my CPU OC is also stable through RealBench 2.56 for 8h running, so do I need anything else to test the stability of the RAM besides these 2 programs I mentioned? Because apparentely my uncore ratio is unstable (I was using 48x multiplier and was having some PC freezes without BSOD and it seems solved when I reduced to 45x), but for some reason RealBench 2.56 didn't accuse unstable my CPU cache/uncore clock when I ran it with 48x multiplier... Is there any specific stress test that goes directly to test the cache clock/uncore clock OC?


You can't go wrong with a couple of hours of GSAT as a final test


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

So I tried stresstestapp, it seemed to just not start up again after the first power spike pause and resume. It.... just seemed to not resume. Did some googling and found this: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700 in an post in here (I am running 32 GB of RAM). I assume this should fix my issue?


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> So I tried stresstestapp, it seemed to just not start up again after the first power spike pause and resume. It.... just seemed to not resume. Did some googling and found this: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700 in an post in here (I am running 32 GB of RAM). I assume this should fix my issue?


I think as long as the pause delay is longer than the run time it will work. The pause delay is not needed on the desktop PCs afaik


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> I think as long as the pause delay is longer than the run time it will work. The pause delay is not needed on the desktop PCs afaik


Gotcha. Yea, seemed to work. It passed an hour long test but then I had some call of duty and left 4 dead 2 to play lol.

Is an hour usually considered long enough to confirm stability to then adjust timings again? I’m thinking I am close to my secondary timings being set, I’ll have to start looking as tertiary timings soon. What and endless journey RAM overclocking is!


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Gotcha. Yea, seemed to work. It passed an hour long test but then I had some call of duty and left 4 dead 2 to play lol.
> 
> Is an hour usually considered long enough to confirm stability to then adjust timings again? I’m thinking I am close to my secondary timings being set, I’ll have to start looking as tertiary timings soon. What and endless journey RAM overclocking is!


Haha yeah, I know what you mean. All the testing gets in the way of the gaming 
An hour would be considered the minimum but it's up to you. You might want to do a long test once you have all the settings finalized.
You don't really have to test an hour after changing each setting. Some of them don't cause instability in the same way, just better or worse performance. Some you can change together. You will get to know which ones with a bit of experimentation and research.
I could never test an hour after each change. I would lose my train of thought or forget what I did.
I do have an exercise book full of settings and voltages and different sets of ram I have tried and how many errors in TM5 appeared in the first cycle etc, just to familiarize myself with how the ram behaved with all the combinations I could come up with and the Aida scores to accompany them  We were in lockdown for a month


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Should lowering tRAS to the lowest possible value I can help..? After reading this: tRAS: CL + tRCD + tRTP (Source) or CL + tRCD + 2 (Source and Diagram). Min: 28. (Source: ASRock UEFI description) I am just not sure what is best.

I am at 16-19-19-30 right now, but judging by that statement above, I am not sure that 30 is really doing much. I have been using AIDA memory benchmark, and it seems to help, but just ever so slightly... hard to even say.

Current settings in screenshot, I am just not really sure if what I am even chasing here is worth while. I sorta feel like I have passed the point of diminishing returns.

Advice?


----------



## Imprezzion

I played around with this as well and logic would dictate it not having any effect under the value for the formula but scaling in AIDA tells a different story. On 4200 16-17-17 I also saw improvements, small ones but still, going from 34 to 28.

Still not quite sure but then again, it can't really hurt right?

I'm gonna play around with my RAM again while working from home lol. I got 2 profiles saved now, both tested rigorously for stability, 4200-16-17-17-34-320-2T @ 1.554v and 3920-16-16-16-32-280-2T @ 1.455v.

I kinda don't like running 1.554v as the sticks tend to get quite hot during the summer resulting in some temperature related instability. 3900 @ 1.455v doesn't get anywhere near as hot but it isn't as fast either. Latency is fine at 38.4ns but it costs me some bandwidth and e-peen not running 4000+. I'm going to see what 1.45v will get me around 4000-4133-4200 in terms of timings.


----------



## Gen.

Hello everyone. I don’t wish anyone rotten gigabytes anymore. I bought myself APEX XI. By the way, a master in 2 dimms can also. Why take 4 dimmers if 2 dimmers are accelerated just like 4 dimmers are not clear. 4200 are not stable at any timings and voltages.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> Hello everyone. I don’t wish anyone rotten gigabytes anymore. I bought myself APEX XI. By the way, a master in 2 dimms can also. Why take 4 dimmers if 2 dimmers are accelerated just like 4 dimmers are not clear. 4200 are not stable at any timings and voltages.


It will be interesting to see what you can do with the Apex :thumb:



Imprezzion said:


> I played around with this as well and logic would dictate it not having any effect under the value for the formula but scaling in AIDA tells a different story. On 4200 16-17-17 I also saw improvements, small ones but still, going from 34 to 28.
> 
> Still not quite sure but then again, it can't really hurt right?
> 
> I'm gonna play around with my RAM again while working from home lol. I got 2 profiles saved now, both tested rigorously for stability, 4200-16-17-17-34-320-2T @ 1.554v and 3920-16-16-16-32-280-2T @ 1.455v.
> 
> I kinda don't like running 1.554v as the sticks tend to get quite hot during the summer resulting in some temperature related instability. 3900 @ 1.455v doesn't get anywhere near as hot but it isn't as fast either. Latency is fine at 38.4ns but it costs me some bandwidth and *e-peen* not running 4000+. I'm going to see what 1.45v will get me around 4000-4133-4200 in terms of timings.


Lol, yeah, I did the same. Went through all the different ram settings just at the start of the "voltage diminishing returns curve" and *max e-peen* 
Can you get higher frequency with looser timings or is that the wall for your hardware?
I ended up with 4400-17-17-17-375-2T @ 1.46 DRAM 1.25 IO and 1.3 SA. Just starting to ramp up volts on the IO and SA.
Had to loosen the timings to get the voltages down rather than lowering the 4400
The tRFC could go much lower than 375 but there seemed to be no benefit but perhaps a little less consistency in Aida.


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> It will be interesting to see what you can do with the Apex :thumb:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, yeah, I did the same. Went through all the different ram settings just at the start of the "voltage diminishing returns curve" and *max e-peen*
> Can you get higher frequency with looser timings or is that the wall for your hardware?
> I ended up with 4400-17-17-17-375-2T @ 1.46 DRAM 1.25 IO and 1.3 SA. Just starting to ramp up volts on the IO and SA.
> Had to loosen the timings to get the voltages down rather than lowering the 4400
> The tRFC could go much lower than 375 but there seemed to be no benefit but perhaps a little less consistency in Aida.


4200 is the wall for my IMC. 4400 won't boot on any timings. These chips are a very low bin (3600CL18's with B-Die's).

I'm now on 4154Mhz (yes, bclk OC I know) on 17-19-19-35-320 with super tight sub timings and it's 1400% HCI stable and played a few hours of GTA V races after. Prime95 on loads of different tests stable as well. Fine with my. I can't drop primary any lower. 17-18-18 won't get in windows and 17-17-17 just throws a overclock failed BIOS POST. Same for tRFC. 280 fails to POST but 320 works fine. Probably because of tREFI being maxed out.


----------



## Gen.

munternet said:


> It will be interesting to see what you can do with the Apex :thumb:


You will like what I do. You know me  4100 15-15 1.51V easy


----------



## mouacyk

Gen. said:


> You will like what I do. You know me  4100 15-15 1.51V easy


1T?


----------



## Salve1412

Gen. said:


> Hello everyone. I don’t wish anyone rotten gigabytes anymore. I bought myself APEX XI. By the way, a master in 2 dimms can also. Why take 4 dimmers if 2 dimmers are accelerated just like 4 dimmers are not clear. 4200 are not stable at any timings and voltages.


Nice, I did the same (went from a Master to an Apex). Looking forward to seeing your results with the board. Right now I'm keeping a 4800 G.Skill kit underclocked at 4500 17-18-18-37 1T with reasonable voltages for 24/7 (I have a 9900KS). It has passed Karhu, HCI, TestMem5 and a few hours of Battlefiled V. GSAT seems the only test I cannot pass, so I'm not sure what to do: if I don't get any crash/glitch during daily operations I may keep these settings. I'll attach a couple of pictures so you may eventually look at them for comparison.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Got some new ram(CMT64GX4M4K3600C16) today. Someone asked what chips are used and I thought I should post here for clarification:


----------



## Jpmboy

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Got some new ram(CMT64GX4M4K3600C16) today. Someone asked what chips are used and I thought I should post here for clarification:


some nice lookin' B-die sticks!


----------



## munternet

Salve1412 said:


> Nice, I did the same (went from a Master to an Apex). Looking forward to seeing your results with the board. Right now I'm keeping a 4800 G.Skill kit underclocked at 4500 17-18-18-37 1T with reasonable voltages for 24/7 (I have a 9900KS). It has passed Karhu, HCI, TestMem5 and a few hours of Battlefiled V. GSAT seems the only test I cannot pass, so I'm not sure what to do: if I don't get any crash/glitch during daily operations I may keep these settings. I'll attach a couple of pictures so you may eventually look at them for comparison.


Looks nice and tight, but errors are errors 
How many errors in an hour of GSAT?


----------



## Salve1412

munternet said:


> Looks nice and tight, but errors are errors /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif
> How many errors in an hour of GSAT?


Yes, you're right...in addition I'm a bit paranoid about RAM errors, so I'll decide whether to keep these settings or not in the next few days.
About GSAT, since I use the command 
"--max_errors n" (n=2 in my case) to exit the test if n errors are found I wasn't hitherto able to end a 1 hour run: usually errors pop up after ~20 minutes from the start. What I noticed is that they tend to appear in clusters (tipically from 4 to 16 errors), not as single errors. At first I thought it could be temperature-related, but I've just failed a run during which two fans pointed directly towards the sticks, whose temperature didn't exceed 36°C. Maybe I could try to boot the program from a USB stick and see if something changes outside Windows.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Another question, what is the typical "ok, my RAM is stable for sure" duration in GAST? I ran my test for 5 hours and had no errors. Is that long enough to be considered stable?

Also, now that I think I am at the diminishing return mark, I am just working to lower my volts. Passed 1.25 hours of 1.39v vs what I had been running which was 1.41. Hopefully I can dial it back another notch or two! I guess for "random" Corsair RAM I got, I can't really argue with my results. Definitely didn't buy it with any OC anticipation.


----------



## munternet

Salve1412 said:


> Yes, you're right...in addition I'm a bit paranoid about RAM errors, so I'll decide whether to keep these settings or not in the next few days.
> About GSAT, since I use the command
> "--max_errors n" (n=2 in my case) to exit the test if n errors are found I wasn't hitherto able to end a 1 hour run: usually errors pop up after ~20 minutes from the start. What I noticed is that they tend to appear in clusters (tipically from 4 to 16 errors), not as single errors. At first I thought it could be temperature-related, but I've just failed a run during which two fans pointed directly towards the sticks, whose temperature didn't exceed 36°C. Maybe I could try to boot the program from a USB stick and see if something changes outside Windows.


Yeah, if adding a small amount of voltage on DRAM, IO and SA doesn't fix it then maybe lower a timing. Crank tRFC first to see if that helps and lower tREFI to auto.




{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Another question, what is the typical "ok, my RAM is stable for sure" duration in GAST? I ran my test for 5 hours and had no errors. Is that long enough to be considered stable?
> 
> Also, now that I think I am at the diminishing return mark, I am just working to lower my volts. Passed 1.25 hours of 1.39v vs what I had been running which was 1.41. Hopefully I can dial it back another notch or two! I guess for "random" Corsair RAM I got, I can't really argue with my results. Definitely didn't buy it with any OC anticipation.


The tutorial at the start of this thread says at least an hour but it's up to you. I have never done 5. If I can pass 1 hour I can almost always pass 2 hours. 
Once you get familiar with your ram you will know when you're stretching a bit but if you aren't stretching you will not have trouble finding your lowest safe voltage points and they will be clearly defined cut off points


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> The tutorial at the start of this thread says at least an hour but it's up to you. I have never done 5. If I can pass 1 hour I can almost always pass 2 hours.
> Once you get familiar with your ram you will know when you're stretching a bit but if you aren't stretching you will not have trouble finding your lowest safe voltage points and they will be clearly defined cut off points


Whats funny is I have never had my RAM fail a stress test yet. It has never given me an issue with HCI or stresstestapp. It has not booted many times, and caused hilariously comical BIOS issues (thankfully the mobo has a second BIOS, it has dropped itself into the second BIOS a few times now), but if it boots into Windows, its been stable. I have not seen a single RAM error in any of my tests.


----------



## Imprezzion

I improved my RAM quite a bit on 1.46v lol. Turned on my 140mm RAM fan as they creeped up to about 45c and they dropped temp fast lol. 

Secondary and tertiary are super tight, RTL is not very impressive but unfortunately they don't train any lower. 

Did a quick HCI 400% 2 hour test and seems fine. Also did some Prime95 Small AVX on, 1344 in-place AVX off, 12k AVX on and so on. No errors. 
Check screenshots and AIDA result. Bandwidth and latency is great now lol.


----------



## Gen.

Hey. Samples with Apex XI and mine G.Skill TridentZ 3600 16-16


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I improved my RAM quite a bit on 1.46v lol. Turned on my 140mm RAM fan as they creeped up to about 45c and they dropped temp fast lol.
> 
> Secondary and tertiary are super tight, RTL is not very impressive but unfortunately they don't train any lower.
> 
> Did a quick HCI 400% 2 hour test and seems fine. Also did some Prime95 Small AVX on, 1344 in-place AVX off, 12k AVX on and so on. No errors.
> Check screenshots and AIDA result. Bandwidth and latency is great now lol.


Pretty decent Aida scores :thumb:
Can you use 15 in the IOL-Offset or won't it train?



Gen. said:


> Hey. Samples with Apex XI and mine G.Skill TridentZ 3600 16-16


Looking good mate. 1T too 
Is there a trick to getting 16 to train in tCWL? I only get 14 to work.


----------



## Gen.

munternet said:


> Looking good mate. 1T too
> Is there a trick to getting 16 to train in tCWL? I only get 14 to work.


Thanks!  Specify your settings. Need a screenshot ASRock Timing Configurator.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> Thanks!  Specify your settings. Need a screenshot ASRock Timing Configurator.


I have also tried 21 IOL-Offset.
Edit: I got it working 
Just playing with some settings now.
Got the latency to 34.5ns


----------



## Gen.

@munternet You have the wrong training, do offset 21, iol 6-6, rtl 62-63 or (if it does not start) iol 6-7, rtl 62-64. RRD_L = 4, WTR_L = 8, WRRD_sg = 30, WRRD_dg = 26, CWL = 16, RDWR_sg = 10, RDWR_dg = 10, RFC ~ 280-288-296-304-312-320


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> @munternet You have the wrong training, do offset 21, iol 6-6, rtl 62-63 or (if it does not start) iol 6-7, rtl 62-64. RRD_L = 4, WTR_L = 8, WRRD_sg = 30, WRRD_dg = 26, CWL = 16, RDWR_sg = 10, RDWR_dg = 10, RFC ~ 280-288-296-304-312-320


I have already done some of what you suggested and got the cl down to 16 and the RDWR_sg = 10, RDWR_dg = 10
Trying the IOL settings you suggested now 

Edit: Tried the IOL settings you suggested but they wouldn't boot and on auto latency is out the window at 35.9ns

Edit2: I did however get it running at 4400 cl15 (am running it now) 
although I got 1 error in the first round of TM5


----------



## munternet

4300 CL15


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Taichi in action


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Pretty decent Aida scores :thumb:
> Can you use 15 in the IOL-Offset or won't it train?


Nope, doesn't even POST  I got a small-ish improvement running 67/67/1/1 initials with 21 offset compared to 69/69/4/4 as in, latency is the same, bandwidth is slightly higher, but as both times it trained 62/64/6/7 the actual performance should be the same so might just be test variance / margin of error. 

I also tried pushing RDWR lower but to go lower then 13 i have to sacrifice at least 2 maybe 3 clocks on tWR in general and that isn't worth it. I can do 10 on RDWR but only if I run 15 or 16 tWR. 13 RDWR with 12 tWR is still faster in benches so.. leaving it here. 

Only timings i'm still struggling with quite a bit is tWRRD_dg/dr as i see many people running way way lower here but all i can get to post is 27/22. Any other setting lower then this just doesn't POST at all.
And, I gotta read up on what tCKE and tRTP actually do lol. I just copied tRTP 8 and tCKE 6 from whatever was stable on my 4200CL16 clocks but.. No idea if this is optimal lol.


----------



## Salve1412

Gen. said:


> Hey. Samples with Apex XI and mine G.Skill TridentZ 3600 16-16


Is this with Maximus Tweak Mode 1, Mode 2, or AUTO?


----------



## Gen.

@Salve1412 mode 2 + manual input rtl @munternet I'm testing 4500 16-16-36-1T now ~1.580V. And your training is again out of order again  4300С15 2Т =Offset 21/21, IOL 6/6, RTL=58/59 or Offset 21/21, IOL 6/7, RTL=59/60 or Offset 21/21, IOL 7/7, RTL=59/60 + Mode 2. Welcome!


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, got my tCKE and tRTP to come down a bit and tested a bit longer this time. Seems perfectly stable so far in this 3 hour HCI stresstest. And performance picked up quite a bit. I'll settle here as there's nothing else I can tweak without having to hammer voltages. And I am already at 1.460v vDIMM, 1.30v VCCSA and 1.25v VCCIO and don't really wanna go higher for 24/7 during the summer. 

I'm off to play some GTA V races and we'll see how stable my RAM is in real-life scenario's


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

I think I need to get on your guys levels, lol.

I guess I can just keep trying to lower my tertiary timings, don't really feel like pushing more volts to it. Maybe if I did try 1.45 I could pull of ~4000 though. Hmm...


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> I think I need to get on your guys levels, lol.
> 
> I guess I can just keep trying to lower my tertiary timings, don't really feel like pushing more volts to it. Maybe if I did try 1.45 I could pull of ~4000 though. Hmm...



lol i know right. If only the apex xi was still sold brand new sealed with manufacturer's warranty. ><


----------



## Gen.

XGS-Duplicity said:


> lol i know right. If only the apex xi was still sold brand new sealed with manufacturer's warranty. ><


I just bought a new product in Russia for 20 thousand rubles ~ $ 270, which is a gift  I just got lucky


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Gen. said:


> I just bought a new product in Russia for 20 thousand rubles ~ $ 270, which is a gift  I just got lucky



Solid find. 

Unfortunately I haven't seen any on newegg/amazon/ebay in ages and if I do find one it is a used model . O wells, I guess the industry doesn't want any more of my money for another 8 years .


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Should lowering tRAS to the lowest possible value I can help..? After reading this: tRAS: CL + tRCD + tRTP (Source) or CL + tRCD + 2 (Source and Diagram). Min: 28. (Source: ASRock UEFI description) I am just not sure what is best.
> 
> I am at 16-19-19-30 right now, but judging by that statement above, I am not sure that 30 is really doing much. I have been using AIDA memory benchmark, and it seems to help, but just ever so slightly... hard to even say.
> 
> Current settings in screenshot, I am just not really sure if what I am even chasing here is worth while. I sorta feel like I have passed the point of diminishing returns.
> 
> Advice?


Ok, I think I am now.... going to leave well enough alone. I can now consistently get in the low 47 ns, where before it was usually mid 48's. And bandwidth is about the same. So, I am calling this a win. Also, right now I am at 1.39v. If this turns out to be stable, I think that aint half bad...

I wish I could get the main timings lower (I can lower tRAS down, but I didn't really see any change past 33 so I figure just leave it...

Can I get a higher tREF, maybe? I think for right now, I am just going to stress test this in stresstestapp for ~4 hours and if it passes, I will be happy for now and then start working on lowering the volts.


----------



## The Pook

should be able to drop your TWR and tRFC by ~50% at that speed, I'm running 10/275 at 3700 1.4v and my kits are nothing special.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

The Pook said:


> should be able to drop your TWR and tRFC by ~50% at that speed, I'm running 10/275 at 3700 1.4v and my kits are nothing special.


Hmm, I suppose I can try that. I remember having issues booting bellow 480 though, but maybe I changed more than just that. I don't know, I can give it a shot.


----------



## Salve1412

@Gen. sorry for bothering, which is the most recent anta777 config for TestMem5? I've seen that you use "Extreme1", what do you think about "Heavy 5opt"? In the Russian forum of TM5 there are also two new experimental configurations called "2020medium2" and "2020low2", would you recommend them?


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

The Pook said:


> should be able to drop your TWR and tRFC by ~50% at that speed, I'm running 10/275 at 3700 1.4v and my kits are nothing special.


It wont even train at less than 470, but tWR I am able to drop, I will see how low I can get that. I couldn't find tWRPRE in my BIOS... so I am just manually dropping it.

I got it down to 11, still boots and sorta just gave up at 11 to see if it made any difference. My bandwidth seems to be slightly better, but my latency is sliiiightly worse/the same.

Is this one of those settings that I should try and find the sweet spot of? Could it be that maybe 14 will be better than 11 for instance? Or is lower just better?


----------



## hardwarelimits

What's up guys ! Looking for people that own/owned Gigabyte boards, how are them for ram overclock ? 

I've ordered a z490 Gigabyte Aorus Elite, curious too see how my Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz CL19 will go on it. Thanks


----------



## munternet

hardwarelimits said:


> What's up guys ! Looking for people that own/owned Gigabyte boards, how are them for ram overclock ?
> 
> I've ordered a z490 Gigabyte Aorus Elite, curious too see how my Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz CL19 will go on it. Thanks


How many sticks do you plan to run?
There is also a Gigabyte Z390 Aorus thread https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1711478-gigabyte-z390-aorus-owners-thread.html


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> It wont even train at less than 470, but tWR I am able to drop, I will see how low I can get that. I couldn't find tWRPRE in my BIOS... so I am just manually dropping it.
> 
> I got it down to 11, still boots and sorta just gave up at 11 to see if it made any difference. My bandwidth seems to be slightly better, but my latency is sliiiightly worse/the same.
> 
> Is this one of those settings that I should try and find the sweet spot of? Could it be that maybe 14 will be better than 11 for instance? Or is lower just better?


Shouldn't need to train once you manually input the settings should it?


----------



## hardwarelimits

munternet said:


> How many sticks do you plan to run?
> There is also a Gigabyte Z390 Aorus thread https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1711478-gigabyte-z390-aorus-owners-thread.html


 Hey. I have 32GB but at first will be using 16GB, till I get another kit to put on this other machine.

Thanks for the link ill have a look !


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> Shouldn't need to train once you manually input the settings should it?


Maybe bad terminology on my part. What happens is it just tries forever to boot, eventually gives up, boot loops and boots with extremely slow and loose timings. Also, after about an hour of stresstestapp I saw 2 errors, so I bumped back up to 480, and set 14 instead of 11. If this proves stable, I think I really will call it.


----------



## Imprezzion

Wierd. Manually inputting RTL/IO will not POST for me even if I set the exact same values as the RAM trains on on Auto with manual initials or Auto initials.. now what could be causing that? 

For example, if I run manual 67/67/1/1 initials it will train 62/64/6/7 which is fine but manually entering 62/64/6/7 won't POST at all and just throws a overclocking failed error. Same for Auto which is 69/69/4/4 initials with 64/65/7/7 training. Entering 64/65/7/7 also doesn't POST and throws the same overclocking failed error.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Wierd. Manually inputting RTL/IO will not POST for me even if I set the exact same values as the RAM trains on on Auto with manual initials or Auto initials.. now what could be causing that?
> 
> For example, if I run manual 67/67/1/1 initials it will train 62/64/6/7 which is fine but manually entering 62/64/6/7 won't POST at all and just throws a overclocking failed error. Same for Auto which is 69/69/4/4 initials with 64/65/7/7 training. Entering 64/65/7/7 also doesn't POST and throws the same overclocking failed error.


With the Gene once it trains you can fix the RTLs/IOLs/offsets and it will boot OK. Sometimes I just hit the retry button a few times if I know I'm close till it POSTs, then fix the figures.
It would be nice if the board manufacturers could agree on something but I guess they won't for commercial reasons

Got 4400-CL16 nearly fully tested, thanks to @Gen. whos settings I plagiarized..rep given :thumb:
And my training is again out of order  Maybe you can tell me the correct ones to try for these before I do the final testing 
Is there a table to work out the RTLs and IOLs and why is 21 always your offset?

Edit: I tried the 21 offset and it seems a little better latency and consistent performance at higher frequencies 2T. I got better performance with 15 offset at lower frequencies 1T though. Not sure why.


----------



## Imprezzion

21 is the default and the way I learned and read about RTL/IO a higher offset is faster as that generates a lower overall D0/D1.

On 4200CL16 I run 65/65/1/1 initials with a 25 offset as that is by far the fastest. But I don't wanna run 1.556v DRAM in the summer as the DIMM's get to about 48-50c then a d get unstable due to heat.

That's why I run 4154 CL17 now on 1.46v with the RGB disabled, they stay at a max of 42c now even with 26c ambients.


----------



## Gen.

The first probes with 4133 15-15-1T

@munternet IOL 6-6 and RTL 60-61 (FAST) or IOL 6-7 and RTL 60-62 or IOL 7-7 and RTL 61-62. For CR=1 RTL will be 2 less in each. Do you like the new results?  I tested this on weakened secondary timings. It can be done better, I will tell you if 4400 16-17-37 or 16-16-36 is stable


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Well, my last two attempts had hardware issues after about 3 hours in stressapptest :/.

I may end up going back to vanilla 3600-19-19-33 and very few secondary and tertiary timings adjusted. I bumped a bunch of settings up, not knowing what caused the instability. I have to head to work, but once I get home I will see if my bandwidth of latency actually changed much from that (I bet latency will go back up to mid 48's, which.... is realistically fine), and hopefully its stable again.


----------



## Gen.

I am stable with 4533 17-17-1T on my sticks 3600 16-16 TridentZ.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> I am stable with 4533 17-17-1T on my sticks 3600 16-16 TridentZ.


Wow, 1T :thumb:


----------



## Gen.

4533 17-17-1T (3+2 DIMM) 1.510VDRAM-1.31250VCCIO-1.36250VCCSA


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

So in an 8 hour GSAP test, I got 2 hardware errors, both are : miscompare on CPU. What is this indicative of? I believe my RAM to have been stable before messing with tertiary timings, is this how RAM would present as unstable?


----------



## Gen.

@{EAC} Shoot em UP , show your system config and asrock configurator!


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

@Gen. not really sure what else to show... but here is this. Same info as in my sig, 9900k, 5 GHz.

This was at idle, so vrvout is not drooping at all.


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> @Gen. not really sure what else to show... but here is this. Same info as in my sig, 9900k, 5 GHz.
> 
> This was at idle, so vrvout is not drooping at all.


Have you tried a longish GSAT run without any memory overclock?


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> Have you tried a longish GSAT run without any memory overclock?


Yes. I believe even my "basic" 3600 16-16-35 everything else auto OC did 5 hours without an issue IIRC (I have not been writing things down, which I know better, I usually bust out some graph paper and take notes of settings and stability info). I suppose I could run that again for 8 hours to see if I get 0 issues, or if some crop up.


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Yes. I believe even my "basic" 3600 16-16-35 everything else auto OC did 5 hours without an issue IIRC (I have not been writing things down, which I know better, I usually bust out some graph paper and take notes of settings and stability info). I suppose I could run that again for 8 hours to see if I get 0 issues, or if some crop up.


Have you tried a run of P95 small ffts without avx to see if you're stable on the CPU? Even half hour of a newer version. I'm not suggesting you're not stable, just checking because the CPU must be solid 

@Gen. I tried a couple of the iol rtl settings you suggested and they did wonders for my latency


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> Have you tried a run of P95 small ffts without avx to see if you're stable on the CPU? Even half hour of a newer version. I'm not suggesting you're not stable, just checking because the CPU must be solid
> 
> @Gen. I tried a couple of the iol rtl settings you suggested and they did wonders for my latency


Prime just hits my CPU in a way that seems... abnormal. It just cooks the damn thing. I am 8 hours of realbench stable though, at least at stock RAM speeds.

Right now I am testing my mostly auto settings for 3600 16-16-33 over night. I ran the AIDA test, honestly, the results are so close, I really should just verify stability and call it. My copy speeds are a touch slower, but my latency was still mid to low 47's, which is pretty close to the best I have had.

At this point, I really just want to get 8 hours stable in G SAT, try and drop volts until its unstable, run real bench one more time for 8 hours to make sure the entire system is stable, and call it a day (or a couple weeks really lol). Its been fun messing with it all, but after seeing what marginal gains there are to be had, I think I have pushed these sticks about as far as they want to go with only 1.40v. And you guys have been incredibly helpful. In the morning, hopefully I am stable, but either way I will post a screen grab of the ASRock settings and an AIDA benchmark result.

And, yes, while I was realbench stable for 8 hours, there is still potential for the CPU to not be 100%. But..... realistically, it should be pretty solid.


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Prime just hits my CPU in a way that seems... abnormal. It just cooks the damn thing. I am 8 hours of realbench stable though, at least at stock RAM speeds.
> 
> Right now I am testing my mostly auto settings for 3600 16-16-33 over night. I ran the AIDA test, honestly, the results are so close, I really should just verify stability and call it. My copy speeds are a touch slower, but my latency was still mid to low 47's, which is pretty close to the best I have had.
> 
> At this point, I really just want to get 8 hours stable in G SAT, try and drop volts until its unstable, run real bench one more time for 8 hours to make sure the entire system is stable, and call it a day (or a couple weeks really lol). Its been fun messing with it all, but after seeing what marginal gains there are to be had, I think I have pushed these sticks about as far as they want to go with only 1.40v. And you guys have been incredibly helpful. In the morning, hopefully I am stable, but either way I will post a screen grab of the ASRock settings and an AIDA benchmark result.
> 
> And, yes, while I was realbench stable for 8 hours, there is still potential for the CPU to not be 100%. But..... realistically, it should be pretty solid.


I know what you are saying regarding just finishing the testing and getting on with using the PC 
I used P95 on the hot setting, no AVX when I was at 5.2GHz but it was a little hot (1.46v [email protected]°c) after a 1/2 hour with no errors. I have subsequently lowered my overclock to 5.1 no AVX offset which is much much lower in voltage required and doesn't quite hit 90°c after an hour P95 but the max it hits ever on BFV would be 82°c.


----------



## Falkentyne

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Prime just hits my CPU in a way that seems... abnormal. It just cooks the damn thing. I am 8 hours of realbench stable though, at least at stock RAM speeds.
> 
> Right now I am testing my mostly auto settings for 3600 16-16-33 over night. I ran the AIDA test, honestly, the results are so close, I really should just verify stability and call it. My copy speeds are a touch slower, but my latency was still mid to low 47's, which is pretty close to the best I have had.
> 
> At this point, I really just want to get 8 hours stable in G SAT, try and drop volts until its unstable, run real bench one more time for 8 hours to make sure the entire system is stable, and call it a day (or a couple weeks really lol). Its been fun messing with it all, but after seeing what marginal gains there are to be had, I think I have pushed these sticks about as far as they want to go with only 1.40v. And you guys have been incredibly helpful. In the morning, hopefully I am stable, but either way I will post a screen grab of the ASRock settings and an AIDA benchmark result.
> 
> And, yes, while I was realbench stable for 8 hours, there is still potential for the CPU to not be 100%. But..... realistically, it should be pretty solid.


AIDA64 Stress FPU, Realbench 2.56 and Prime95 small FFT with AVX disabled should all be within 5C of each other. It should not cook your CPU unless you didn't disable AVX in 29.8 build 6. I've run these tests many many times so I should know.

To test VCCIO/VCCSA/IMC stability with hyperthreading, first find out if you can pass prime95 small FFT with AVX disabled. No CPU Cache L0 errors appearing in HWInfo64.
If you pass this, then do 112K-112K in-place fixed FFT with AVX disabled. This is a core test that will also access a small part of RAM, so the IMC is stressed more. If you get a BSOD during this test, crashed prime threads or a CPU Cache L0 error, it means your IO/SA voltages are not correct. Sometimes the only way to fix this is to increase vcore. On some CPU's however, you can fix this by *reducing* VCCIO and VCCSA, or raising it higher, depending on if it improves stability or not. for example, if your IO is 1.25v and SA is 1.30v and you get BSOD/CPU L0 error in prime95 112k-112k in-place (AVX disabled), but 22k-85k is no problem, if you lower IO to 1.10v and SA to 1.15v and the BSOD/errors stop, then that was the issue. If lowering IO/SA doesn't fix the problem or makes it *worse*, and raising IO/SA also doesn't help either, (One of them should if they are too high or too low!), then you must raise Vcore.

This is especially true if reducing cache ratio doesn't fix anything either.

Generally speaking, if you are stable in small FFT (AVX disabled) but you get a BSOD/crashes in 112K in place FFT (AVX disabled), this is usually a problem with your IO/SA voltages, so work on that before increasing CPU Voltage.


----------



## Imprezzion

For my system I have to raise VCCSA/VCCIO quite a bit to get rid of cache errors at 4.7Ghz cache with 4133CL17 RAM. It runs sort of stable, as in doesn't BSOD or crash, at 1.20v IO 1.25v SA but it does quite quickly give cache errors in certain FFT's in Prime95. To really get rid of those I have to run 1.30v SA 1.25v IO. And for 4200CL16 this is even higher at 1.35 SA 1.32 IO. 

VCore helps, but only to a certain point.

I am still struggling like mad with RTL/IO on this board / RAM combination tho. I mean, it's the only thing i can even tweak as everything else is at the lowest it'll go, primary and secondary/tertiary.. 

Side note, i looked at my tests i posted a few pages back and was like, wait, why are my temps 66-69c for the 9900K in just memtest? That ain't normal? So, i fired up Prime95 29.6 with full AVX enabled and yes, i saw 93c hottest core.. That is way higher then i'm used to.. But, i found the problem.. While placing my GPU AIO i knocked the PWM connector for my waterpump loose from the motherboard... This pump does not default to 100% when not sensing PWM but rather 50% so i was missing half my pump speed. And the CPU rad is front mounted vertically with the pump ABOVE it so it needs all the speed it can get to pull the water through it..

I put the connector back on and ran Prime95 29.6 AVX enabled again.. 79c max.. that's more like it lol.


----------



## Salve1412

Gen. said:


> 4533 17-17-1T (3+2 DIMM) 1.510VDRAM-1.31250VCCIO-1.36250VCCSA


Nice! Could you test this overclock with 1 hour of GSAT? My 4500 17-18-18-38 on the Apex passes every other stress test but fails GSAT... I'd be curious to see your results!


----------



## Salve1412

Gen. said:


> 4533 17-17-1T (3+2 DIMM) 1.510VDRAM-1.31250VCCIO-1.36250VCCSA


Nice! Could you test this with 1 hour of GSAT? My 4500 17-18-18-38 overclock on the Apex passes every other stress test but fails GSAT... I'd be curious to see your results!


----------



## Kargeras

Falkentyne said:


> To test VCCIO/VCCSA/IMC stability with hyperthreading, first find out if you can pass prime95 small FFT with AVX disabled. No CPU Cache L0 errors appearing in HWInfo64.
> If you pass this, then do 112K-112K in-place fixed FFT with AVX disabled.
> 
> Generally speaking, if you are stable in small FFT (AVX disabled) but you get a BSOD/crashes in 112K in place FFT (AVX disabled), this is usually a problem with your IO/SA voltages, so work on that before increasing CPU Voltage.



Excellent reading as always, thank you Falkentyne.

A subject I didn't see much written about is how long should the tests be.

You also mentioned this in another thread and I find it very useful:



Falkentyne said:


> But if you're just gaming and rendering, all you really need to pass is 8 hours of Realbench 2.56 (zero CPU Cache L0 errors in HWinfo64) and 4 hours of Cinebench R20 (3600*4 seconds, or longer) loops with zero cpu cache L0 errors. Maybe throw in some Blender Classroom loops also.



Please share your thoughts also on how long should the Prime95 AVX or non-AVX tests be?
Does the length differ by type of test, Small, Smallest, Blend etc.?

What about LinX, AIDA and maybe others?


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

munternet said:


> I know what you are saying regarding just finishing the testing and getting on with using the PC
> I used P95 on the hot setting, no AVX when I was at 5.2GHz but it was a little hot (1.46v [email protected]°c) after a 1/2 hour with no errors. I have subsequently lowered my overclock to 5.1 no AVX offset which is much much lower in voltage required and doesn't quite hit 90°c after an hour P95 but the max it hits ever on BFV would be 82°c.


Dang, had a single error in an 8 hour G SAT test, at the 7.4 hour mark. I was really hoping to have none :/.



Falkentyne said:


> AIDA64 Stress FPU, Realbench 2.56 and Prime95 small FFT with AVX disabled should all be within 5C of each other. It should not cook your CPU unless you didn't disable AVX in 29.8 build 6. I've run these tests many many times so I should know.
> 
> To test VCCIO/VCCSA/IMC stability with hyperthreading, first find out if you can pass prime95 small FFT with AVX disabled. No CPU Cache L0 errors appearing in HWInfo64.
> If you pass this, then do 112K-112K in-place fixed FFT with AVX disabled. This is a core test that will also access a small part of RAM, so the IMC is stressed more. If you get a BSOD during this test, crashed prime threads or a CPU Cache L0 error, it means your IO/SA voltages are not correct. Sometimes the only way to fix this is to increase vcore. On some CPU's however, you can fix this by *reducing* VCCIO and VCCSA, or raising it higher, depending on if it improves stability or not. for example, if your IO is 1.25v and SA is 1.30v and you get BSOD/CPU L0 error in prime95 112k-112k in-place (AVX disabled), but 22k-85k is no problem, if you lower IO to 1.10v and SA to 1.15v and the BSOD/errors stop, then that was the issue. If lowering IO/SA doesn't fix the problem or makes it *worse*, and raising IO/SA also doesn't help either, (One of them should if they are too high or too low!), then you must raise Vcore.
> 
> This is especially true if reducing cache ratio doesn't fix anything either.
> 
> Generally speaking, if you are stable in small FFT (AVX disabled) but you get a BSOD/crashes in 112K in place FFT (AVX disabled), this is usually a problem with your IO/SA voltages, so work on that before increasing CPU Voltage.


I guess I will have to try some of these things next. 


Screenshot of the settings I tested all night attached.


----------



## Kargeras

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Dang, had a single error in an 8 hour G SAT test, at the 7.4 hour mark. I was really hoping to have none :/.



What program did you use to test the memory?


----------



## Falkentyne

So I just tested this on another system.

1.05v VCCIO / 1.10v VCCSA: Passed Prime95 112K-112K in-place FFT AVX disabled 20 minutes
1.05v VCCIO / 1.25v VCCSA: rounding error in 6 minutes. Didn't stick around for the BSOD.
1.15v / 1.25v: rounding error in 6 minutes. OR System service exception. OR radeon settings crashed. Followed by a BSOD. OR CPU Cache L0 error

1.05v / 1.10v : Vega 64 -27mv undervolt crashed on Valley benchmark. -24mv undervolt p7 state passed (P7=1700mhz, HBM: 1050 mhz)
1.15v / 1.25v : Vega 64 -27mv undervolt passed.

I'm so done. Anything related to the IMC is stupid. Overclocking is stupid. Fite me IRL.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Kargeras said:


> {EAC} Shoot em UP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dang, had a single error in an 8 hour G SAT test, at the 7.4 hour mark. I was really hoping to have none 😕.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What program did you use to test the memory?
Click to expand...

Google stressaptest


----------



## Gen.

AORUS ELITE 16-19-36:
CL=16
RCD=19
RP=19
RAS=39
RC=58
CR=2

WR=16
RRD_S=4
RRD_L=6
WTR_S=4
WTR_L=8
FAW=16
CCD_S=4
CCD_L=7
RTP=8
CWL=16

RDRD_sg=7
RDRD_dg=4
RDRD_dr=1
RDRD_dd=6

RDWR_sg=10
RDWR_dg=10
RDWR_dr=1
RDWR_dd=10

WRRD_sg=30
WRRD_dg=26
WRRD_dr=1
WRRD_dd=6

WRWR_sg=7
WRWR_dg=4
WRWR_dr=1
WRWR_dd=7

RTT=60,60,20,20,40,40

DRAM=1.400V, Training=1.400V, VPP=2.500V, VTT=0.700V.

THIS IS E-Die Micron??? non Samsung B-die.


----------



## Gen.

Salve1412 said:


> Nice! Could you test this with 1 hour of GSAT? My 4500 17-18-18-38 overclock on the Apex passes every other stress test but fails GSAT... I'd be curious to see your results!


I have no time to test GSAT. I trust only LinX, Karhu, TM5 Extreme1, HCI Deluxe


----------



## Gen.

munternet said:


> I tried a couple of the iol rtl settings you suggested and they did wonders for my latency


RAS=37 or 16-16-36.
RRD_L=4
RFC=272-280-288-296.
CR=1?


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> RAS=37 or 16-16-36.
> RRD_L=4
> RFC=272-280-288-296.
> CR=1?


Thanks again for the suggestions :thumb:
I will try them later. I am just starting work now 
I had excellent results with the other numbers you suggested 
Where do I get TM5 Extreme1. Is it just a config file used with TM5?


----------



## munternet

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Dang, had a single error in an 8 hour G SAT test, at the 7.4 hour mark. I was really hoping to have none :/


Sorry to hear that.
Do temps get up at all with such a long test?
I got the cpu error you mentioned on one of my GSAT tests and in my case raising VCCSA fixed it.
Have you considered getting a cheap set of B-Die ram? You might find them more rewarding. I just ordered some Patriot Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz PVS416G440C9K and will sell a few lower rated sets


----------



## SunnyStefan

munternet said:


> Thanks again for the suggestions :thumb:
> I will try them later. I am just starting work now
> I had excellent results with the other numbers you suggested
> Where do I get TM5 Extreme1. Is it just a config file used with TM5?



There's a Google Drive link to the TM5 Extreme config in this section of the GitHub MemTestHelper OC Guide.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Gen. said:


> AORUS ELITE 16-19-36:
> CL=16
> RCD=19
> RP=19
> RAS=39
> RC=58
> CR=2
> 
> WR=16
> RRD_S=4
> RRD_L=6
> WTR_S=4
> WTR_L=8
> FAW=16
> CCD_S=4
> CCD_L=7
> RTP=8
> CWL=16
> 
> RDRD_sg=7
> RDRD_dg=4
> RDRD_dr=1
> RDRD_dd=6
> 
> RDWR_sg=10
> RDWR_dg=10
> RDWR_dr=1
> RDWR_dd=10
> 
> WRRD_sg=30
> WRRD_dg=26
> WRRD_dr=1
> WRRD_dd=6
> 
> WRWR_sg=7
> WRWR_dg=4
> WRWR_dr=1
> WRWR_dd=7
> 
> RTT=60,60,20,20,40,40
> 
> DRAM=1.400V, Training=1.400V, VPP=2.500V, VTT=0.700V.
> 
> THIS IS E-Die Micron??? non Samsung B-die.


Is this a question to me?

I am on micron, yes. Uh, I forget which version now... 8GB CJR dies?

Running 4 dimms. If this was even aimed at me. 



munternet said:


> {EAC} Shoot em UP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dang, had a single error in an 8 hour G SAT test, at the 7.4 hour mark. I was really hoping to have none :/
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear that.
> Do temps get up at all with such a long test?
> I got the cpu error you mentioned on one of my GSAT tests and in my case raising VCCSA fixed it.
> Have you considered getting a cheap set of B-Die ram? You might find them more rewarding. I just ordered some Patriot Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz PVS416G440C9K and will sell a few lower rated sets /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

CPU temps are fine, low to mid 50’s. Not sure what temps RAM is hitting tho, but my upper 140 radiator fans are right above the ram, so should be getting good enough airflow for 1.4v. 

It’s just not worth picking up more RAM. ~150 bucks for 32GB for relatively meaningless gaming performance uplift just isn’t worth it. To me, this is just a fun endeavor, but not worth spending money on new hardware for.


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Whelp, 8 hours stable with my "standard" very auto 3600 setup. Screenshots bellow. Speed seems... "fine". Best I ever really got to was mid 36 ns anyways.


----------



## pphx459

Guys, need some help...

Just swapped out to a 10900x from a 7900x using the same ram and the write speeds went down dramatically!
Only the core is oc'd , cache / uncore left to auto.. same board/bios, what can be wrong??


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

{EAC} Shoot em UP said:


> Whelp, 8 hours stable with my "standard" very auto 3600 setup. Screenshots bellow. Speed seems... "fine". Best I ever really got to was mid 36 ns anyways.


Dropped my dram volts from 1.41 to 1.39 and was again 8 hours stable. I suppose tomorrow I will try 1.38, and I mostly doubt it would be able to go any lower than that. But, this gives me 2 passes in a row of those speed/timing settings, so I am fairly certain it is actually stable.


----------



## bp7178

munternet said:


> I just ordered some Patriot Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz PVS416G440C9K and will sell a few lower rated sets


You'll like that memory. Its the same set I use. I switched to the 1502 (or is it 1503) BIOS. From my 5.3Ghz 9900KS base OC settings I enabled XMP and tried booting. Per the usual, it didn't POST. Normally I would enable trace centering and go to Maximus Mode 1 to get it to POST with XMP. With the 15whatever BIOS I tried MEMOK, which I know is typically a mixed bag of misery. Surprisingly, it rebooted once after dropping the VDIMM to 1.350 and booted right into windows.


----------



## munternet

bp7178 said:


> You'll like that memory. Its the same set I use. I switched to the 1502 (or is it 1503) BIOS. From my 5.3Ghz 9900KS base OC settings I enabled XMP and tried booting. Per the usual, it didn't POST. Normally I would enable trace centering and go to Maximus Mode 1 to get it to POST with XMP. With the 15whatever BIOS I tried MEMOK, which I know is typically a mixed bag of misery. Surprisingly, it rebooted once after dropping the VDIMM to 1.350 and booted right into windows.


Sounds good :thumb: I look forward to it arriving. Thanks for the tips.
They still haven't picked it at amazon yet. Must be busy.


----------



## ViTosS

Just bought an Apex XI for my old 8700k, hope I can increase my RAM OC, which is current at [email protected], latency is 39.4ns in Aida64


----------



## Imprezzion

pphx459 said:


> Guys, need some help...
> 
> Just swapped out to a 10900x from a 7900x using the same ram and the read speeds went down dramatically!
> Only the core is oc'd , cache / uncore left to auto.. same board/bios, what can be wrong??


Down? The 10900k screenshots shows a much higher read speed? Like? I dun get it.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Just bought an Apex XI for my old 8700k, hope I can increase my RAM OC, which is current at [email protected], latency is 39.4ns in Aida64


You're gonna love it I'm sure. I think those are the same ram sticks that @Gen. is getting great results on with his new Apex XI. If you get lucky with your IMC and ram sticks you should get some amazing results


----------



## munternet

I tried and tried to get anything 4600-17 working but it just required too much voltage in the end. Tried everything I know but couldn't get it BFV stable in the end even though I managed GSAT and TM5 stable.

So I dropped/changed to 4500-16-18-18-38-2T which compares quite favorably and I've run some tests and just finished a few hours BFV and she seems sound.
At first it wasn't quite stable on auto RTLs so I bumped them up a little rather than sacrificing other settings or trying to sledgehammer it with voltage and I think it's looking good


----------



## pphx459

Imprezzion said:


> Down? The 10900k screenshots shows a much higher read speed? Like? I dun get it.


Look at the write... down by a ton and i ahve no idea why..


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

pphx459 said:


> Look at the write... down by a ton and i ahve no idea why..


You need to reset the bios, or even re-flash the bios. I have been swapping between my 8086K and 9900K. It only went back to normal if I reset my bios after swapping.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> You're gonna love it I'm sure. I think those are the same ram sticks that @Gen. is getting great results on with his new Apex XI. If you get lucky with your IMC and ram sticks you should get some amazing results


Yeah I'm excited, I'm looking for at least 4000Mhz CL16-16-16-36, currently I'm at 1.45v DRAM, 1.20 VCCIO and VCCSA, but let's say I want to try [email protected] what would you suggest to set for VCCIO/VCCSA? Like for starting


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Yeah I'm excited, I'm looking for at least 4000Mhz CL16-16-16-36, currently I'm at 1.45v DRAM, 1.20 VCCIO and VCCSA, but let's say I want to try [email protected] what would you suggest to set for VCCIO/VCCSA? Like for starting


Hard to say but I would think [email protected] would be doable with around 1.20 VCCIO and 1.25 VCCSA to get a feel for your hardware. After that who knows, maybe even push 1T as far as possible.
You can work your way down on the voltages using Asus TurboV Core while still in Windows and run TM5 and drop voltages until it errors or freezes and take a shot of the voltages with your mobile before saving in case of a crash so you add a little more and can fix them in the bios.
I'm currently running 4500-16-18-18-38-2T, 1.225 VCCIO and 1.325 VCCSA, 1.58v Dram on the Asus Gene XI, which is about where my limit is and probably not as good as the Apex. Who knows, you might get lucky with your hardware and go much better. I expect the Apex won't be your bottle neck


----------



## Imprezzion

About 1.20 IO 1.25 SA should get you there. 4200CL16 isn't super hard to run unless the RAM is a particularly under average sample like mine lol. 

I'm going to try to get my CPU/IMC to actually boot 4500 or higher.. if I can manage that at all I'm curious how this RAM will do as it seems to hit quite a wall at 4200 16-17-17 otherwise and I never got 4400 19-22-22 to even boot so. I'll play around with some stuff to at least get it to boot and I'll go from there. As you can see I'm bored haha.

EDIT: So far so good... it took me 1.46v DRAM, 1.35v SA and 1.30v IO + setting tWR and tCWL manually to get it to POST 4500 but at least I got into Windows which is quite a change compared to when i first bought this RAM and couldnt get into Windows above 4400 no matter what. I know the trainings off, should be an easy fix.

K, fixed training and did some quick testing.. like this IMC does NOT want to run this 4500Mhz clock lol. It benches AIDA fine on 4500CL19 but any memtest like HCI just instantly errors within 20 seconds.
I had to raise VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.4v SA 1.35v IO to even pass a couple of % of memtest at all. I am really not liking 1.4v SA and 1.35v IO but i'm going to need that at a minimum, and maybe even more to be 100% stable, on 4400+ unfortunately... Oh well, a 9900K isn't THAT expensive secondhand anymore if I do nuke this one to oblivion..

Nevermind, it just isn't going to do it. Even super loose 4400 19-19-19 will not run ANY stresstest under 1.425v SA 1.4v IO anywhere near stable. Each time I raise IO/SA it runs for a bit longer but.. This is hopeless. this P0 early 9900K sample just doesn't have the IMC for this lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

People need to understand what I/O voltage (VCCIO) and SA Voltage (VCCSA) are and why, when you are overclocking memory, you MUST raise IO/SA voltages,
and why you should not be too afraid of high IO/SA voltages.

The IMC is powered by a voltage rail (much like other rails) and there is a relationship between VCCIO and VCCSA, much like there is a relationship between
AC Loadline and DC Loadline / VRM Loadline.

One functions are pre-output buffers and the other functions on post output buffers, much like AC Loadline functions on CPU *REQUEST* voltage,
and VRM Loadline functions on CPU *DELIVERED* voltage (DC Loadline is a prediction of the VR VOUT, used for power measurements, VRM Loadline is the actual vdroop,
set at intel default and tuned by loadline calibration, etc)....

So there is a relationship between them, and why IO/SA should be close to each other, much like ACLL and DCLL should match each other also.
Although VCCIO is a special case since it also drives the shared L3 cache, and this gets even more tricky because the IMC controls hyperthreading,
and hyperthreaded CPU cores function with virtualized instruction registers that are stored in a "L0" or level zero cache--the L0 cache is the
virtualized instruction register store. Also this is why at higher memory speeds, you often need to increase CPU VCORE to keep your CPU stable, or increase IO/SA, or your CPU hyperthreading
will be unstable...does this make sense?

Have any of you ever wondered why you don't usually get CPU Cache L0 errors if hyperthreading is disabled? And no System Service Exceptions, etc---but instead the application crashes
if your vcore is too low, or you just get 0x101 (Clock watchdog) or 0x124 (WHEA uncorrectable) BSOD's? Well there you go...

So there is no Intel spec limit on VCCIO, but VCCSA has a 1.52v limit. Same as Vcore (without VRM Serial VID offset mode enabled, which is VRM command 33h, an IMPV8 command),
But you see, 1.520v VID is based on default loadlines being respected (In other words, Vdroop is GOOD, boys), and then the -1.6mv / amp curve (9900k) or -1.1mv /A for 10900k etc...
So as amps go up, the VID goes down...etc etc....so 245 amps on 10900k becomes 1.250v load voltage...
Although I am not sure how the 1.720v VID limit for offset mode functions (command 33h allows up to 200mv of higher VID)---maybe this is for sub-zero crowd...I know nothing about this...

Anyway, even if you still think 1.520v with max vdroop (intel spec) is still bad, you can't do anything about it anyway, because AC Loadline (e.g., default AC Loadline like used on H chip series laptops) of 1.1 mOhms *WILL* Boost the VID up to 1.520v anyway and not even tell you. Because AC Loadline will boost base VID (You can find this at idle---set AC/DC Loadline to 0.01 mOhms first, boot windows and look at HWinfo64),
up depending on current, like this:

Vcore = vCPU + (ACLL mOhms * Amps). before vdroop. So if your vCPU is 1.210v at idle @ 30C, you try to draw a 245 amp Prime95 load
in offset mode with +0mv (or Auto or adaptive vcore with +0mv offset), your AC Loadline will ASK FOR A VOLTAGE FROM THE VRM of:

1210mv + (245 * 1.1 mOhm) =1479mv or 1.479v IF YOUR CPU IS AT 30C. So the CPU will ask for 1.479v from VRM at 30C. At 80C this will be higher (vCPU rises higher as temp rises, 1.55mv every C, or -1.55mv every C, starting at 100C and going down, at x52 multiplier I think) --probably 1.520v if VRM command 33h is off, because the VID cap will be 1.520v max. And this is intel spec so no need to be so scared.

But this is only half of the formula. You forgot about VRM Loadline.
VRM Loadline of 1.1 mOhms is intel spec also, same as ACLL:
So now you have vdroop to bring the voltage back down:
1.1 mOhm * 245A.....=269mv of vdroop....

1520mv - 269mv = 1.250v....so your CPU is at 1.250v max safe voltage at 245A...intel spec.
THIS IS WHY HAVING NO VDROOP IS BAD...IF YOU HAD NO VDROOP WITH THIS SPEC YOU WOULD BE 1.520V LOAD @ 245A....SEE ?


But let's go to VCCSA with this.

As you can see you can't destroy your System Agent by using no vdroop at 1.520v Bios set voltage, like you can your CPU, because some fool thought no vdroop is good, when you are violating Intel's loadline spec and generating terrible transient ripple (read: https://elmorlabs.com/index.php/2019-09-05/vrm-load-line-visualized/ )

Because there is no loadline specification for VCCSA for you to destroy anyway. So you are not insta-breaking your IMC by using 1.50v system agent.
VCCIO is similar.

Now think of CPU scaling here and that VCCIO and VCCSA are signal power rails...
Let's say your CPU needs:

1.250v for 5 ghz core
1.450v for 5 ghz ring ratio
1.55-1.60v for 5 ghz DDR RAM ratio...
1.40v VCCSA for 4400 mhz DDR RAM 
1.65v VCCSA for 5 ghz DDR RAM 

IO and SA are affected too so you may need 1.4v+ for 4400 mhz +. See?
This is normal. And there is also a frequency point where the voltage you need to run faster frequency gets more steep

Like:
1.012v for 4.7 ghz
1.043v for 4.8 ghz
1.083v for 4.9 ghz
1.124v for 5.0 ghz
1.180v for 5.1 ghz
1.235v for 5.2 ghz
1.335v for 5.3 ghz....

The same thing happens with memory frequency, just not so sharp. But DDR 4400 + requires scaling IO/SA too. But not as sharp scaling for DDR voltage etc.
Hope you guys will understand this.


----------



## pphx459

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to reset the bios, or even re-flash the bios. I have been swapping between my 8086K and 9900K. It only went back to normal if I reset my bios after swapping.


I've cleared the CMOS and it fixed a few issues, but haven't reflashed the bios! I'll give it a try and see what happens! Thanks

edit: welp that didn't help, maybe when i ran the 7900x benchmark it was already messed up. you can see the NB clock (cpu cache) at 1300 instead of 2400 like it is with the 10900x. The only thing that helps bring the write back up is OC'ing the cache (which I didn't do at all on the 7900x).


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Falkentyne said:


> People need to understand what I/O voltage (VCCIO) and SA Voltage (VCCSA) are and why, when you are overclocking memory, you MUST raise IO/SA voltages,
> and why you should not be too afraid of high IO/SA voltages.
> 
> ...
> 
> The same thing happens with memory frequency, just not so sharp. But DDR 4400 + requires scaling IO/SA too. But not as sharp scaling for DDR voltage etc.
> Hope you guys will understand this.


Great info as always!

Also, I was 8 hours stable last night on 1.38 DRAM Voltage... I am starting to wonder if 1.41 was just not enough for the speeds and timings I was going for. Maybe I should try those settings again at 1.43 and see lol. I just.... don't think it really matters. I think I would rather my voltage to be lower on my DIMMS than push .05 more voltage just for slight RAM improvements.

Either way, glad it was stable at 1.38. I am all about overclocking, but I am MORE about over clocking at the lowest possible voltages lol.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

pphx459 said:


> I've cleared the CMOS and it fixed a few issues, but haven't reflashed the bios! I'll give it a try and see what happens! Thanks
> 
> edit: welp that didn't help, maybe when i ran the 7900x benchmark it was already messed up. you can see the NB clock (cpu cache) at 1300 instead of 2400 like it is with the 10900x. The only thing that helps bring the write back up is OC'ing the cache (which I didn't do at all on the 7900x).


Seems more like a problem related to cpu power management.


----------



## pphx459

Can you elaborate? Thanks


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

pphx459 said:


> Can you elaborate? Thanks


1st make sure you have turned off all the power saving options in the bios, and set the win10 power management to "Ultimate Performance".


----------



## Gen.

Imprezzion said:


> About 1.20 IO 1.25 SA should get you there. 4200CL16 isn't super hard to run unless the RAM is a particularly under average sample like mine lol.
> 
> I'm going to try to get my CPU/IMC to actually boot 4500 or higher.. if I can manage that at all I'm curious how this RAM will do as it seems to hit quite a wall at 4200 16-17-17 otherwise and I never got 4400 19-22-22 to even boot so. I'll play around with some stuff to at least get it to boot and I'll go from there. As you can see I'm bored haha.
> 
> EDIT: So far so good... it took me 1.46v DRAM, 1.35v SA and 1.30v IO + setting tWR and tCWL manually to get it to POST 4500 but at least I got into Windows which is quite a change compared to when i first bought this RAM and couldnt get into Windows above 4400 no matter what. I know the trainings off, should be an easy fix.
> 
> K, fixed training and did some quick testing.. like this IMC does NOT want to run this 4500Mhz clock lol. It benches AIDA fine on 4500CL19 but any memtest like HCI just instantly errors within 20 seconds.
> I had to raise VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.4v SA 1.35v IO to even pass a couple of % of memtest at all. I am really not liking 1.4v SA and 1.35v IO but i'm going to need that at a minimum, and maybe even more to be 100% stable, on 4400+ unfortunately... Oh well, a 9900K isn't THAT expensive secondhand anymore if I do nuke this one to oblivion..
> 
> Nevermind, it just isn't going to do it. Even super loose 4400 19-19-19 will not run ANY stresstest under 1.425v SA 1.4v IO anywhere near stable. Each time I raise IO/SA it runs for a bit longer but.. This is hopeless. this P0 early 9900K sample just doesn't have the IMC for this lol.


For Z390 Meg Ace the most stable RAM frequency is 4300 mhz (for me 16-16-2T). 4400 19-19 - unstable.


----------



## Gen.

munternet said:


> I tried and tried to get anything 4600-17 working but it just required too much voltage in the end. Tried everything I know but couldn't get it BFV stable in the end even though I managed GSAT and TM5 stable.
> 
> So I dropped/changed to 4500-16-18-18-38-2T which compares quite favorably and I've run some tests and just finished a few hours BFV and she seems sound.
> At first it wasn't quite stable on auto RTLs so I bumped them up a little rather than sacrificing other settings or trying to sledgehammer it with voltage and I think it's looking good


Your workout is wrong again! 
Remember that IOL + IOL Offset <= 28 (5-21, 6-21 or 7-21, but not 8-21 and other).
For 4500CL16 CR=2 this 60-62 6-7 or 61-62 7-7! Please Extreme1.
P.S. Some photos for you.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> Your workout is wrong again!
> Remember that IOL + IOL Offset <= 28 (5-21, 6-21 or 7-21, but not 8-21 and other).
> For 4500CL16 CR=2 this 60-62 6-7 or 61-62 7-7! Please Extreme1.
> P.S. Some photos for you.


Thanks again :thumb:
I will study the information today 
I have the Exteme1 config and I will start using it.
I will come back when I have some results to show.


----------



## Gen.

https://yadi.sk/d/iuOfzEpBDpA5tQ


----------



## newls1

didnt know this thread existed, hoping someone could help me with this: 

I have 4x8gb sticks of the patriot 4400MT/s B-Die sets running @ 4120MT/s on my maximus XII Z490 with 10900k. I am in need of assistance with playing with the mem settings ill show in this picture provided. Basically what ive tested so far is this:

CL17/18/18/36 2T @ 1.41Vdimm 1.312v SA/IO voltage

Trfc 550 (anything lower causes very weird issues
TREFI 32000 (auto was 16xxx)

Anything else I need yalls help with tweaking. So I dont know if Trfc and TRefi work with each other (I think they do) but when I tried Tfrc @ 500 TRefi was still on auto of 16xxx, so maybe now that i set TREFI = 32000 maybe now Trfc can go lower??? just throwing that out there to see a pro answer that. Here is the pic of my ram timings, so please feel free to point me in the right direction on which to chance for a little more stability and performance?!


----------



## The Pook

newls1 said:


> didnt know this thread existed, hoping someone could help me with this:
> 
> I have 4x8gb sticks of the patriot 4400MT/s B-Die sets running @ 4120MT/s on my maximus XII Z490 with 10900k. I am in need of assistance with playing with the mem settings ill show in this picture provided. Basically what ive tested so far is this:
> 
> CL17/18/18/36 2T @ 1.41Vdimm 1.312v SA/IO voltage
> 
> Trfc 550 (anything lower causes very weird issues
> TREFI 32000 (auto was 16xxx)
> 
> Anything else I need yalls help with tweaking. So I dont know if Trfc and TRefi work with each other (I think they do) but when I tried Tfrc @ 500 TRefi was still on auto of 16xxx, so maybe now that i set TREFI = 32000 maybe now Trfc can go lower??? just throwing that out there to see a pro answer that. Here is the pic of my ram timings, so please feel free to point me in the right direction on which to chance for a little more stability and performance?!



if you don't want to spend the time learning about each timing, find someone with a similar kit and steal their timings. people here post their timings all the time, should be able to find some without too much hassle. 

you can steal mine when I was running 4133, but it's not the most impressive kit of RAM. might be able to do do better/might be a bit worse. 

change a few, run RAM Test/GSAT overnight, and if stable change a few more. 

tCKE can probably bet set to 6, had it at 8 in the screenshot. tREFI also should also be able to do 65535.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> https://yadi.sk/d/iuOfzEpBDpA5tQ


Cheers for the link bud :thumb:
Lots of interesting configs in there.



newls1 said:


> didnt know this thread existed, hoping someone could help me with this:
> 
> I have 4x8gb sticks of the patriot 4400MT/s B-Die sets running @ 4120MT/s on my maximus XII Z490 with 10900k. I am in need of assistance with playing with the mem settings ill show in this picture provided. Basically what ive tested so far is this:
> 
> CL17/18/18/36 2T @ 1.41Vdimm 1.312v SA/IO voltage
> 
> Trfc 550 (anything lower causes very weird issues
> TREFI 32000 (auto was 16xxx)
> 
> Anything else I need yalls help with tweaking. So I dont know if Trfc and TRefi work with each other (I think they do) but when I tried Tfrc @ 500 TRefi was still on auto of 16xxx, so maybe now that i set TREFI = 32000 maybe now Trfc can go lower??? just throwing that out there to see a pro answer that. Here is the pic of my ram timings, so please feel free to point me in the right direction on which to chance for a little more stability and performance?!


Are you running a little extra Bclk? Probably better on 100 for stability if having any issues.
Like @The Pook said, copy someones timings if you want fast results or there are 2 links in my sig. The second more advanced one on Github is the newer one but the first still has some good info if you just want some numbers to try. 
You can probably use Asus TurboV Core to change your voltages from windows on the fly. Hopefully it works with your board.
Be sure to check stability after each change


----------



## newls1

The Pook said:


> if you don't want to spend the time learning about each timing, find someone with a similar kit and steal their timings. people here post their timings all the time, should be able to find some without too much hassle.
> 
> you can steal mine when I was running 4133, but it's not the most impressive kit of RAM. might be able to do do better/might be a bit worse.
> 
> change a few, run RAM Test/GSAT overnight, and if stable change a few more.
> 
> tCKE can probably bet set to 6, had it at 8 in the screenshot. tREFI also should also be able to do 65535.


thanks for posting that, just a quick question tho, how much would change since im populating all 4 dimm slots? I had to drop down to ddr 4000 cause no matter what I changed at 4133, i couldnt stabilize it. Changing TREFI to 32000 seemed stable, but nope, changed Trfc to 550 and not stable.. so now im at 560TRFC, "auto" TREFI (which is 15xxx) and 4000MT/s using the 133 mem strap (not the 100 mem strap as i found this to cause weird issues) and just passed a 100% coverage in HCI memtest. Ive never had so many issues on an intel platform before


----------



## The Pook

newls1 said:


> thanks for posting that, just a quick question tho, how much would change since im populating all 4 dimm slots? I had to drop down to ddr 4000 cause no matter what I changed at 4133, i couldnt stabilize it. Changing TREFI to 32000 seemed stable, but nope, changed Trfc to 550 and not stable.. so now im at 560TRFC, "auto" TREFI (which is 15xxx) and 4000MT/s using the 133 mem strap (not the 100 mem strap as i found this to cause weird issues) and just passed a 100% coverage in HCI memtest. Ive never had so many issues on an intel platform before



depends on your board and your kit. My board is terrible for 4 DIMM OCing and now that I'm running 8x4 I'm limited to 3700 and I couldn't post at 3600 with my timings from 4133. My primaries are a bit tighter but almost all my other timing are looser. 










I'm not really the person to ask for RAM OCing advice, I know roughly what values you _should_ be able to get on B-Die for most timings but past that it's just a blob of numbers to me. Maybe someone will stick their nose in and give you better advice


----------



## newls1

thanks for trying!


----------



## munternet

newls1 said:


> thanks for trying!


There's a couple of things you could try but maybe get version 4.0.4 Asrock Configurator first and post a screen shot of where you're at. Lightshot is good for screenshots and a free download.
From your earlier configurator shot it looks like you can...
raise tRAS to 37 (maybe higher)
tRRD_L can be 6-8
tRRD_S can be 4-6
tFAW is 4x tRRD_S
twr can be left on auto and changed to 16 by controlling with twrpre

Need to know your voltages for vccsa, vccio and vdimm/dram

These are just basic guidelines to start with.
Try them and see if they help and post a snippy 

Edit: Just looking at the Memory QVL for that board and anything over 4000MHz is 2x dimms so it might be a daisy chain board...
As a test try running with 2x sticks and see how you go 
Newer bios might help when released also


----------



## newls1

munternet said:


> There's a couple of things you could try but maybe get version 4.0.4 Asrock Configurator first and post a screen shot of where you're at. Lightshot is good for screenshots and a free download.
> From your earlier configurator shot it looks like you can...
> raise tRAS to 37 (maybe higher)
> tRRD_L can be 6-8
> tRRD_S can be 4-6
> tFAW is 4x tRRD_S
> twr can be left on auto and changed to 16 by controlling with twrpre
> 
> Need to know your voltages for vccsa, vccio and vdimm/dram
> 
> These are just basic guidelines to start with.
> Try them and see if they help and post a snippy
> 
> Edit: Just looking at the Memory QVL for that board and anything over 4000MHz is 2x dimms so it might be a daisy chain board...
> As a test try running with 2x sticks and see how you go
> Newer bios might help when released also


Thanks for the reply sir. I DL'ed 4.0.4 version but get error loading and all fields read 65xxx for everything, so thats a no go. Only 4.0.3 seems to work for me. Attached is a current screen shot of my mem timings and I had to lower them to DDR4000 speeds as no matter what I did, 4133 i couldnt stabilize with what little knowledge i have for mem OCing. so far (fingers crossed) 4000 seems to be okay and HCI mem went to 100% coverage, and I stopped the test, so this may be ok. Would like see what performance I can obtain with ddr4000 with correctly adjusted primaries/secondaries/tertiaries timings with some assistance. Current settings are as follows:

SA/IO Voltage = 1.312v (for both) as this setting is on "auto" in bios
Vdimm = 1.395v
ram is 4x8GB (32gb) Patriot 4400 sticks B-Die
I actually have the latest bios that is not even released yet (0509) got it from asus' forum
CPU is 10900k @ 5.2 and 4.8Cache

**EDIT** Use mem timing pic on the LEFT side, the right side was my 4133 speed, but couldnt stabilize it to save my life.


----------



## newls1

@munternet 

Here is an updated screen shot of settings after setting the following:

TRAS = 37
TRRD_L = 6
TRRD_S = 4
TFAW = 16
TWR = 16 (In bios, but program is reading 17 and dont know why)

***EDIT** just ran 10 instances of HCI MemTest for a quick stability test and ran all instances to atleast 50% coverage and I stopped them all as I ran out of patience, but atleast this is a good start with these adjustments as nothing failed. Whats next?!*


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

newls1 said:


> @*munternet*
> 
> Here is an updated screen shot of settings after setting the following:
> 
> TRAS = 37
> TRRD_L = 6
> TRRD_S = 4
> TFAW = 16
> TWR = 16 (In bios, but program is reading 17 and dont know why)
> 
> ***EDIT** just ran 10 instances of HCI MemTest for a quick stability test and ran all instances to atleast 50% coverage and I stopped them all as I ran out of patience, but atleast this is a good start with these adjustments as nothing failed. Whats next?!*


Browsing the forum and you have me curious, Why are you downclocking your ram to 4000 from 4400? That's the 10900k system right? Asking because i'm trying to gauge overall 10900k IMC strength compared to overall 9900k imc strength when it comes to 4 dimm configurations for daily use to see if it changed at all from 9th gen chips. Basically, i'm trying to figure out what kind of memory OC gains a user will get when switching from a 9900k to a 10900k on 4 dimms on consumer bought retail chips.


----------



## newls1

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Browsing the forum and you have me curious, Why are you downclocking your ram to 4000 from 4400? That's the 10900k system right? Asking because i'm trying to gauge overall 10900k IMC strength compared to overall 9900k imc strength when it comes to 4 dimm configurations for daily use to see if it changed at all from 9th gen chips. Basically, i'm trying to figure out what kind of memory OC gains a user will get when switching from a 9900k to a 10900k on 4 dimms on consumer bought retail chips.


cant go by your theory in this case, cause my board is a daisy chain topology, and daisy chain mem layouts clock 4dimm (all slots populated) no where near as good as T-Topology boards. Seems all asus boards for z490 use daisy chain, so I cant seem to stabilize anything over ~4000MT/s speeds. Sure if I knew how to set every timing perfectly I could more then likely get 4133-ISH speeds, but im totally content with 4000MT/s speed and a 5.2GHz OC with a 4.8GHz cache


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

newls1 said:


> cant go by your theory in this case, cause my board is a daisy chain topology, and daisy chain mem layouts clock 4dimm (all slots populated) no where near as good as T-Topology boards. Seems all asus boards for z490 use daisy chain, so I cant seem to stabilize anything over ~4000MT/s speeds. Sure if I knew how to set every timing perfectly I could more then likely get 4133-ISH speeds, but im totally content with 4000MT/s speed and a 5.2GHz OC with a 4.8GHz cache



O for sure, I appreciate you sharing the board topology here. Thanks for the response. Gonna be tracking results over different websites to get the most accurate idea of the 10900k imc strength on 4 dimms. I'm wondering if it improved since 9th generation or if users are still only getting 4133-4200 on 4 dimms stable for daily use. Will have to stay tuned on the forums.


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> @munternet
> 
> Here is an updated screen shot of settings after setting the following:
> 
> TRAS = 37
> TRRD_L = 6
> TRRD_S = 4
> TFAW = 16
> TWR = 16 (In bios, but program is reading 17 and dont know why)
> 
> ***EDIT** just ran 10 instances of HCI MemTest for a quick stability test and ran all instances to atleast 50% coverage and I stopped them all as I ran out of patience, but atleast this is a good start with these adjustments as nothing failed. Whats next?!*


I found this chart in this link, but I dont understand how to know what my time is in ns to realize what/where my trfc should be set at with my given mem settings of ddr4000/ CL17... im currently @ trfc = 560. Auto puts me at 778. memory is so confusing. Here is the chart I found on the googles


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

newls1 said:


> I found this chart in this link, but I dont understand how to know what my time is in ns to realize what/where my trfc should be set at with my given mem settings of ddr4000/ CL17... im currently @ trfc = 560. Auto puts me at 778. memory is so confusing. Here is the chart I found on the googles



According to BluEE from an older post on a different forum(i think that is his or her ID), assuming you are on samsung bdie, you can do 160ns-180ns for trfc. Sometimes even lower. It scales with voltage as do most bdie timings. If you are on anything else than samsung bdie, disregard my tip.


----------



## newls1

its b die


----------



## newls1

XGS-Duplicity said:


> According to BluEE from an older post on a different forum(i think that is his or her ID), assuming you are on samsung bdie, you can do 160ns-180ns for trfc. Sometimes even lower. It scales with voltage as do most bdie timings. If you are on anything else than samsung bdie, disregard my tip.


so are you saying i should set my trfc to 400 then?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> so are you saying i should set my trfc to 400 then?


I have same RAM Patriot 4400C19, but only 2 modules, Im maxed at 4000 stable with my imc/mobo with 1.4v dram, 1.27 vccio/vccsa. As per my prior post, I set all my secondary timings equivalent to 2133 boot level, and despite you using 4 sticks, your timings nearing same as mine...u just likely need higher io/sa with 4. once finished all settings with hci runs, I ran 8 hrs hci memtest 800+%. All but a few settings I have tried lower, only to get errors. (asrock tim config gui doesnt like 125% w/win dpi fix.)


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> I have same RAM Patriot 4400C19, but only 2 modules, Im maxed at 4000 stable with my imc/mobo with 1.4v dram, 1.27 vccio/vccsa. As per my prior post, I set all my secondary timings equivalent to 2133 boot level, and despite you using 4 sticks, your timings nearing same as mine...u just likely need higher io/sa with 4. once finished all settings with hci runs, I ran 8 hrs hci memtest 800+%. All but a few settings I have tried lower, only to get errors. (asrock tim config gui doesnt like 125% w/win dpi fix.)


appreciate the reply. My SA/IO are @ 1.32 for both, anything lower and its not stable. What is your mem latency in aida64?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> appreciate the reply. My SA/IO are @ 1.32 for both, anything lower and its not stable. What is your mem latency in aida64?


here is my aida64, with your 4 dimms at 4000 1.32 is expected.


----------



## newls1

awesome, thank you


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> here is my aida64, with your 4 dimms at 4000 1.32 is expected.


I just wonder if running 4 sticks will make trfc any different or no, and just copy your stuff....


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> I just wonder if running 4 sticks will make trfc any different or no, and just copy your stuff....


It may and some differences will exist with each stick of ram (just like each cpu)...you could just have 1 stick that requires higher values and cause issues.
Given other settings are near same, you could just try and copy secondary timings and see, worst case clear cmos and try again. Mine below 260 trfc wont boot with 1.4dram volts I use 24/7, so just left at 2133 level. 
main thing is just run hci memtest for 1 long run once finished to be sure stable.


----------



## munternet

Try bumping the dram voltage first until you see diminishing returns (or too much heat, over 40°c or so) rather than pushing io and sa to see if that helps as it is safer.
I would love to know how 2 dimms work as the QVL rates 2 dimms right up to 4800MHz 

Have a look at the QVL as nothing 4 Dimms over 4000MHz is listed. I guess they had to do that to compete with the 2 Dimm board frequencies and for marketing. It would be nice if they mentioned it on the box so you knew not to get your hopes up too high for 4 Dimms.


----------



## hemon

Hi,

I hope that you can help me with a direct answer to my question: which DDR4 ist faster (on stock, no OC) between 3600 CL16 (https://www.crucial.de/memory/ddr4/bl2k16g36c16u4b) and 3200 CL 14 (https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...DR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB)? 
It should be for the i9-10900k.


----------



## munternet

hemon said:


> Hi,
> 
> I hope that you can help me with a direct answer to my question: which DDR4 ist faster between 3600 CL16 (https://www.crucial.de/memory/ddr4/bl2k16g36c16u4b) and 3200 CL 14 (https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...DR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB)?
> It should be for the i9-10900k.


Faster overclocked or stock? 
Not that I can help with the answer though.


----------



## hemon

munternet said:


> Faster overclocked or stock?
> Not that I can help with the answer though.


On stock.


----------



## munternet

hemon said:


> On stock.


3200/14=228.57
3600/16=225
So much over muchness really
and check the QVL for your motherboard


----------



## newls1

munternet said:


> Try bumping the dram voltage first until you see diminishing returns (or too much heat, over 40°c or so) rather than pushing io and sa to see if that helps as it is safer.
> I would love to know how 2 dimms work as the QVL rates 2 dimms right up to 4800MHz
> 
> Have a look at the QVL as nothing 4 Dimms over 4000MHz is listed. I guess they had to do that to compete with the 2 Dimm board frequencies and for marketing. It would be nice if they mentioned it on the box so you knew not to get your hopes up too high for 4 Dimms.


i read the manual before even purchasing this board and knew that the QVL list only stated 4 dimms @ 4000mt/s so i wasnt having to high of hopes but tbh, im completely content with ram at 4000, plenty of speed for everything i do. just want to tweak my timings to get the best performance I can. My SA/IO voltages are @ 1.312v, are you saying if I raise my Vdimm to ~1.42 i can maybe lower my sa/io?


----------



## hemon

munternet said:


> 3200/14=228.57
> 3600/16=225
> So much over muchness really
> and check the QVL for your motherboard


Sorry, do you mean 3600/16 is faster?


----------



## munternet

newls1 said:


> i read the manual before even purchasing this board and knew that the QVL list only stated 4 dimms @ 4000mt/s so i wasnt having to high of hopes but tbh, im completely content with ram at 4000, plenty of speed for everything i do. just want to tweak my timings to get the best performance I can. My SA/IO voltages are @ 1.312v, are you saying if I raise my Vdimm to ~1.42 i can maybe lower my sa/io?


If you run the likes of GSAT or TM5 and drop each voltage until you see errors you can then raise a little (vccio lowering may cause a crash) but with vdimm raise about 0.03-0.04 after seeing the odd error and you might be able to keep the vccsa a smidge lower. vccio can go a fair bit lower than vccsa on my 2 dimm board. Not sure about yours, you will have to do some experimenting. Any crashes to desktop in games are usually not enough vccsa.
Does Asus TurboV Core work on your board?
It won't be long and someone with the same board will start posting some results that you can look at 



hemon said:


> Sorry, do you mean 3600/16 is faster?


No, you want the bigger number but they say frequency is king so not much in it. I would go the guaranteed B-Die F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK 
Looking for info on the other sticks they look like micron e die.


----------



## hemon

munternet said:


> newls1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i read the manual before even purchasing this board and knew that the QVL list only stated 4 dimms @ 4000mt/s so i wasnt having to high of hopes but tbh, im completely content with ram at 4000, plenty of speed for everything i do. just want to tweak my timings to get the best performance I can. My SA/IO voltages are @ 1.312v, are you saying if I raise my Vdimm to ~1.42 i can maybe lower my sa/io?
> 
> 
> 
> If you run the likes of GSAT or TM5 and drop each voltage until you see errors you can then raise a little (vccio lowering may cause a crash) but with vdimm raise about 0.03-0.04 after seeing the odd error and you might be able to keep the vccsa a smidge lower. vccio can go a fair bit lower than vccsa on my 2 dimm board. Not sure about yours, you will have to do some experimenting. Any crashes to desktop in games are usually not enough vccsa.
> Does Asus TurboV Core work on your board?
> It won't be long and someone with the same board will start posting some results that you can look at /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> hemon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, do you mean 3600/16 is faster?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you want the bigger number but they say frequency is king so not much in it. I would go the guaranteed B-Die F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Looking for info on the other sticks they look like micron e die.
Click to expand...

Hmm... but the 3600 cl16 seems to be (much) faster: https://youtu.be/J3LSnCLpXAA
https://youtu.be/kP9F0h7qP_g


----------



## munternet

The ram you listed is 3600-16-18-18-38 e die.
the ram you linked in youtube is gskill. likely 3600-16-16-16-36 b-die
This may have some bearing on the actual speed. The second youtube link shows 3200 cl15
I'm sure someone with experience in these ram sticks will chime in soon 
Ideally I think you should look at some 3600-16-16-16-36 B-die such as F4-3600C16D-32GTZR


----------



## Nizzen

hemon said:


> Sorry, do you mean 3600/16 is faster?


Higher frequency will give you higher bandwidth. So high frequency AND low/tweaked timings is what you want. You want 4000+mhz c16-17 on Intel 2 channel plattform  

Proper tweaked, sub 40 ns memorylatency is in reach.


----------



## munternet

Nizzen said:


> Higher frequency will give you higher bandwidth. So high frequency AND low/tweaked timings is what you want. You want 4000+mhz c16-17 on Intel 2 channel plattform
> 
> Proper tweaked, sub 40 ns memorylatency is in reach.


 @hemon intends to run stock


----------



## eminded1

i got a kit 16gb ddr4 3600c15d-gtz and i have it overclocked to 4300mhz stable. i can boot all the way up to 4600mhz but i cant get it stable past 4300. 

here are my settings
17 17 17 37 @ 4300mhz 1.4Vdimm 1.25 VCCSA 1.15 VCCIO 1.15 DMI 1.15 CPU PLL that ram kit is pretty nice im using the subtimings for the xmp of 3600mhz c15 and it works fine.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

I have a question about memory performance on 9900K dual channel ram set up. I thought about making a thread to ask but i felt like maybe the answer would be more beneficial if it was included in this thread since it is memory related. Provided rtls/frequency/timings are the same for the ram, 4x8gb provides a bit better bandwidth than 2x8gb due to interleaving. Will 4x16gb perform better than 4x8gb at the same rtls/frequency/timings when it comes to bandwidth as well or does the performance increase from interleaving automatically stop at 4 dimms regardless of dimm capacity? Like, is it specifically the amount of ranks that plays a role in increasing bandwidth in this scenario or is it specifically just 4 dimms interleaved?


----------



## opt33

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I have a question about memory performance on 9900K dual channel ram set up. I thought about making a thread to ask but i felt like maybe the answer would be more beneficial if it was included in this thread since it is memory related. Provided rtls/frequency/timings are the same for the ram, 4x8gb provides a bit better bandwidth than 2x8gb due to interleaving. Will 4x16gb perform better than 4x8gb at the same rtls/frequency/timings when it comes to bandwidth as well or does the performance increase from interleaving automatically stop at 4 dimms regardless of dimm capacity? Like, is it specifically the amount of ranks that plays a role in increasing bandwidth in this scenario or is it specifically just 4 dimms interleaved?


Techspot has run both scenarios, separately...ie illustrating what you just stated, the small percentage gains from 4 dimms populated vs 2 here: https://www.techspot.com/article/1971-more-ram-modules-better-for-gaming/
And also what you are asking, showing more memory capacity over what is used doesnt increase performance: https://www.techspot.com/article/1043-8gb-vs-16gb-ram/page4.html
someone did a more recent test, showed over 16gb no more gains.


----------



## Jpmboy

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I have a question about memory performance on 9900K dual channel ram set up. I thought about making a thread to ask but i felt like maybe the answer would be more beneficial if it was included in this thread since it is memory related. Provided rtls/frequency/timings are the same for the ram, 4x8gb provides a bit better bandwidth than 2x8gb due to interleaving. Will 4x16gb perform better than 4x8gb at the same rtls/frequency/timings when it comes to bandwidth as well or does the performance increase from interleaving automatically stop at 4 dimms regardless of dimm capacity? Like, is it specifically the amount of ranks that plays a role in increasing bandwidth in this scenario or is it specifically just 4 dimms interleaved?


 In my opinion, there's also another way to consider this... in many overclocks, the 4x8GB kit will run a higher frequency than a 4x16GB kit - so actually having both kits compared at the same freqs and timings in many regards may require an "unclocked" potential for the 4x8GB kit. So... assuming we're talking about an ASUIS-like trace layout, there is no real simple answer for the above reason.


That said, I just picked up a 4x16GB GS Royal 3600c16-16-16 kit. Thiaphoon has these as Sammy B-die ICs. I just loaded them in to an ASUS Apex VI/7980XE combo (cause I actually ran out of memory with 32GB on board during a recent Boinc competition - slamming the page file on an Intel 900P drive  ).
the 4x8 GS 3600c15 (2 kits) have been at 4000c16 for a couple of years (it seems anyway). So far, the 64GB kit, with an hour invested) is running TM5 at 3600c15 and tight secondaries and 57/59/8/8 trls and iols. AID64 is a bit lower in performance - but less than 8%. Putting in some time to see what these can do on x299.


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> According to BluEE from an older post on a different forum(i think that is his or her ID), assuming you are on samsung bdie, you can do 160ns-180ns for trfc. Sometimes even lower. It scales with voltage as do most bdie timings. If you are on anything else than samsung bdie, disregard my tip.


Um, someone help me please.
What just happened? 

I saw that the two patriot 4000 dimms wouldn't even do 1T @ 3600 at 15/15/15/36 in the Z490 Master (but they did do 2T), so I removed them and put them in the M12E, and they booted at 19/19/19/39 1T at 4000...but what's up with my write and copy speeds?

I put the 2x16 GB gskill CL14 3200's in the Master to see if it would do 1T at 15/15/15/36 3600...because it has no problem doing 15/15/15/36 1T in the Maximus...now I'm even afraid to turn on that system after seeing this....
Help me 
@Jpmboy


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Um, someone help me please.
> What just happened?
> 
> I saw that the two patriot 4000 dimms wouldn't even do 1T @ 3600 at 15/15/15/36 in the Z490 Master (but they did do 2T), so I removed them and put them in the M12E, and they booted at 19/19/19/39 1T at 4000...but what's up with my write and copy speeds?
> 
> I put the 2x16 GB gskill CL14 3200's in the Master to see if it would do 1T at 15/15/15/36 3600...because it has no problem doing 15/15/15/36 1T in the Maximus...now I'm even afraid to turn on that system after seeing this....
> Help me
> 
> @Jpmboy


Were you in MODE 2??


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Were you in MODE 2??


Yes I was!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Yes I was!


That's the wired problem from MODE 2. You may fix it to MODE 1. MODE 2 is used for hitting high frequencies with very loose training.


----------



## BlueEarth

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I have a question about memory performance on 9900K dual channel ram set up. I thought about making a thread to ask but i felt like maybe the answer would be more beneficial if it was included in this thread since it is memory related. Provided rtls/frequency/timings are the same for the ram, 4x8gb provides a bit better bandwidth than 2x8gb due to interleaving. Will 4x16gb perform better than 4x8gb at the same rtls/frequency/timings when it comes to bandwidth as well or does the performance increase from interleaving automatically stop at 4 dimms regardless of dimm capacity? Like, is it specifically the amount of ranks that plays a role in increasing bandwidth in this scenario or is it specifically just 4 dimms interleaved?


I have done tons of memory OC and first of all you can consider 2 dimm slots on a channel equal to single dual ranked memory. The difference being the traces being shorter on natively dual ranked memory making it potentially OC better than two single rank memory on a channel.
In my experience with 9900K and 10980xe, dual ranked adds about 5% increase in bandwidth potentially exceeding it's theoretical bandwidth with tight timings and being fully stable.

Now if you populated 2 dim slot per channel with 2 dual ranked memory essentially you get 4 rank interleaving. This does affects overclock performance substantially. Kit that can do 4000 it might run only 3600 fully stable. This figure is largely depends on your memory kit, IMC and board but you got the idea.


----------



## munternet

Now testing with the Extreme1 TM5 and it seems very thorough. Also 4 hours of GSAT.
Pretty happy with this one and she's a good performer @ 34.6ns
Still struggling to get a legit sub 34ns 

4400-16-17-17-37-2T
dram voltage 1.54v
vccio 1.25v
vccsa 1.325v


----------



## BlueEarth

Falkentyne said:


> Um, someone help me please.
> What just happened?
> 
> I saw that the two patriot 4000 dimms wouldn't even do 1T @ 3600 at 15/15/15/36 in the Z490 Master (but they did do 2T), so I removed them and put them in the M12E, and they booted at 19/19/19/39 1T at 4000...but what's up with my write and copy speeds?
> 
> I put the 2x16 GB gskill CL14 3200's in the Master to see if it would do 1T at 15/15/15/36 3600...because it has no problem doing 15/15/15/36 1T in the Maximus...now I'm even afraid to turn on that system after seeing this....
> Help me
> 
> @Jpmboy


Your write and copy sucks because your write timings are very loose namely tWCL/tCWL (depends on which apps or board brand you are using) and also the tertiary timings is not tightened.
With mode 2 the board will tighten your timings so that will help but it won't be as tight as manual setting.
I've replied to you on the other thread. Let me know how it goes. That setting should be Karhu 30000% stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

tWR and tCWL and the related tRRD have a huge impact in read/write/copy so that's probably it.


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> Um, someone help me please.
> What just happened?
> 
> I saw that the two patriot 4000 dimms wouldn't even do 1T @ 3600 at 15/15/15/36 in the Z490 Master (but they did do 2T), so I removed them and put them in the M12E, and they booted at 19/19/19/39 1T at 4000...but what's up with my write and copy speeds?
> 
> I put the 2x16 GB gskill CL14 3200's in the Master to see if it would do 1T at 15/15/15/36 3600...because it has no problem doing 15/15/15/36 1T in the Maximus...now I'm even afraid to turn on that system after seeing this....
> Help me
> 
> @Jpmboy


trdrd_sg=6 or maybe 7
twrwr_sg=6 or maybe 7
twrwr_dg=4


----------



## robertr1

Falkentyne said:


> Um, someone help me please.
> What just happened?
> 
> I saw that the two patriot 4000 dimms wouldn't even do 1T @ 3600 at 15/15/15/36 in the Z490 Master (but they did do 2T), so I removed them and put them in the M12E, and they booted at 19/19/19/39 1T at 4000...but what's up with my write and copy speeds?
> 
> I put the 2x16 GB gskill CL14 3200's in the Master to see if it would do 1T at 15/15/15/36 3600...because it has no problem doing 15/15/15/36 1T in the Maximus...now I'm even afraid to turn on that system after seeing this....
> Help me
> 
> @Jpmboy


twrwr_dg = 4

8 will kill bw.

The 2 tertiary timings that are most important are:
trdrd_dg = 4
twrwr_dg = 4

4 is the minimum you can go. Above 4 = loss in bandwidth. I'd recommend hardsetting them when tuning mem so they always train at 4.


----------



## Apothysis

Falkentyne said:


> Um, someone help me please.
> What just happened?
> 
> I saw that the two patriot 4000 dimms wouldn't even do 1T @ 3600 at 15/15/15/36 in the Z490 Master (but they did do 2T), so I removed them and put them in the M12E, and they booted at 19/19/19/39 1T at 4000...but what's up with my write and copy speeds?
> 
> I put the 2x16 GB gskill CL14 3200's in the Master to see if it would do 1T at 15/15/15/36 3600...because it has no problem doing 15/15/15/36 1T in the Maximus...now I'm even afraid to turn on that system after seeing this....
> Help me
> 
> @*Jpmboy*



tWRWR_dg 8 rather than 4 is the cause. It's common that the Asus-boards auto this (and tRDRD_dg as well sometimes) to values above 4 when pushing frequencies.


tWRWR_dg and tRDRD_dg above 4 can have an impact as large as 15 GB/s when everything else is tuned. Combine this with auto subtimings and it almost looks like you lost a channel.





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That's the wired problem from MODE 2. You may fix it to MODE 1. MODE 2 is used for hitting high frequencies with very loose training.


 This is false. I've told you this once before already. Mode 1 generally sets **** like 74/74/14/14. This is what Mode 2 does for me:








It probably does other stuff as well, but mode 2 tries to push RTL/IOL as tight as they can go. If you can't post with Mode 2 you can usually switch to Mode 1 and easy peasy post.


----------



## robertr1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That's the wired problem from MODE 2. You may fix it to MODE 1. MODE 2 is used for hitting high frequencies with very loose training.


I've seen you repeat this on numerous occasions without any evidence. 

Mode 1 sets loose rtl's and is better for very high frequencies where you need looser RTL's to train at those frequencies. That's why mode 1 scales beyond Mode 2.

Mode 2 will pretty much floor your RTL's and give you better latency. However, as this adds more stress on the IMC/IC/Mobo Mode 2 will have a lower frequency ceiling than mode 1. 

A number of us have tested this in multiple scenarios on Z390 and it's been true each time. 

If you have *actual* evidence contradicting above, please share it. I'm sure we can all learn from it.


----------



## munternet

robertr1 said:


> I've seen you repeat this on numerous occasions without any evidence.
> 
> Mode 1 sets loose rtl's and is better for very high frequencies where you need looser RTL's to train at those frequencies. That's why mode 1 scales beyond Mode 2.
> 
> Mode 2 will pretty much floor your RTL's and give you better latency. However, as this adds more stress on the IMC/IC/Mobo Mode 2 will have a lower frequency ceiling than mode 1.
> 
> A number of us have tested this in multiple scenarios on Z390 and it's been true each time.
> 
> If you have *actual* evidence contradicting above, please share it. I'm sure we can all learn from it.


I haven't done any testing but I need mode 2 to do 1T at any meaningful frequencies. I thought mode 1 was tighter on the Gene XI and used to get performance from the lower frequencies.
I will have a bit of a play tomorrow and get back


----------



## newls1

yesterday a bunch of you gave me ideas of what to change to aid in my quest to get sub 40ns latency, and overall tune my ram. Just a quick run down my current settings are as follows

4x8gb b-die patriot 4400 CL19 @ DDR4000 CL17/17/17/37 2T 1.395vdimm
TFAW 16
TREFI = Auto (15xxx is what auto gave me)
TRFC = 560

These settings proved HCI memtested stable but latency was 45ns and im sure there is plenty of performance left on the table but WITH stability in mind.. im looking for 24/7 stability.

I was told to Try "mode 2" to have my RTL's tighened up, and change to CL16/17/16/37 and go to 1.40+ Vdimm, change TFEFI to 65xxx and TRFC 374.. Im getting off shift in a few hours and will be home to adjust this stuff and ready for another day full of headaches dealing with mem tweaking! Sorry if this post seems repetitive, I just like to make sure with 100% accuracy that I have a game plan, and goals in mind. Cant thank you all enough for all your assistance the past couple of days. Guess i never cared that much before about mem tweaking, as I didnt realize how much performance was left on the table. Back on my 9900k/z390 days, I jsut set primaries and called it down... AMD Ryzen taught me how important mem can actually be! Please let me know what all changes i need to make to tune 4000 speeds.. Thanks!


----------



## Apothysis

newls1 said:


> yesterday a bunch of you gave me ideas of what to change to aid in my quest to get sub 40ns latency, and overall tune my ram. Just a quick run down my current settings are as follows
> 
> 4x8gb b-die patriot 4400 CL19 @ DDR4000 CL17/17/17/37 2T 1.395vdimm
> TFAW 16
> TREFI = Auto (15xxx is what auto gave me)
> TRFC = 560
> 
> These settings proved HCI memtested stable but latency was 45ns and im sure there is plenty of performance left on the table but WITH stability in mind.. im looking for 24/7 stability.
> 
> I was told to Try "mode 2" to have my RTL's tighened up, and change to CL16/17/16/37 and go to 1.40+ Vdimm, change TFEFI to 65xxx and TRFC 374.. Im getting off shift in a few hours and will be home to adjust this stuff and ready for another day full of headaches dealing with mem tweaking! Sorry if this post seems repetitive, I just like to make sure with 100% accuracy that I have a game plan, and goals in mind. Cant thank you all enough for all your assistance the past couple of days. Guess i never cared that much before about mem tweaking, as I didnt realize how much performance was left on the table. Back on my 9900k/z390 days, I jsut set primaries and called it down... AMD Ryzen taught me how important mem can actually be! Please let me know what all changes i need to make to tune 4000 speeds.. Thanks!



Based on your screenshot, I would set the following goals:


See if you can do 4000 16-16-16 sub 1.5v. Perhaps even 4000 15-15-15.
tRFC -> 320 or lower
tRTP -> 6
tCWL -> 14 if possible
tRDRD_sg/dg/dr/dd -> 6/4/6/6
tWRWR_sg/dg/dr/dd -> 6/4/6/6
tRDWRD_sg/dg/dr_dd -> 12
tREFI -> Max (might need direct airflow for this)
Finally, lower tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg by 1 until tWTR_S 4 and tWTR_L 6.



Enable Round Trip Latency under the "training" page, see how it affects RTL/IOL. If it successfully posts with IOL in the 6-7 range, lock them in manually.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

robertr1 said:


> I've seen you repeat this on numerous occasions without any evidence.
> 
> Mode 1 sets loose rtl's and is better for very high frequencies where you need looser RTL's to train at those frequencies. That's why mode 1 scales beyond Mode 2.
> 
> Mode 2 will pretty much floor your RTL's and give you better latency. However, as this adds more stress on the IMC/IC/Mobo Mode 2 will have a lower frequency ceiling than mode 1.
> 
> A number of us have tested this in multiple scenarios on Z390 and it's been true each time.
> 
> If you have *actual* evidence contradicting above, please share it. I'm sure we can all learn from it.





Apothysis said:


> tWRWR_dg 8 rather than 4 is the cause. It's common that the Asus-boards auto this (and tRDRD_dg as well sometimes) to values above 4 when pushing frequencies.
> 
> 
> tWRWR_dg and tRDRD_dg above 4 can have an impact as large as 15 GB/s when everything else is tuned. Combine this with auto subtimings and it almost looks like you lost a channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is false. I've told you this once before already. Mode 1 generally sets **** like 74/74/14/14. This is what Mode 2 does for me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It probably does other stuff as well, but mode 2 tries to push RTL/IOL as tight as they can go. If you can't post with Mode 2 you can usually switch to Mode 1 and easy peasy post.



Its a waste of time play with you morons that you don't even try by yourselves.

This is the results that I only fixed 1st timings and fixed tRFC=320, tREFI=65535, tRDRD_dg=4, tWRWR_dg=4, others were AUTO.

*MODE 1:*
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=349156&thumb=1

*MODE 2:*
https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=349158&thumb=1

I don't know what kind of freq have you tried. I can only boot 5000 18-18-36 in MODE 2!!! OR you even don't have a single Maximus XI MB???

Next time please try something by yourself before making any comments.


----------



## Falkentyne

Spoiler






Apothysis said:


> tWRWR_dg 8 rather than 4 is the cause. It's common that the Asus-boards auto this (and tRDRD_dg as well sometimes) to values above 4 when pushing frequencies.
> 
> 
> tWRWR_dg and tRDRD_dg above 4 can have an impact as large as 15 GB/s when everything else is tuned. Combine this with auto subtimings and it almost looks like you lost a channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is false. I've told you this once before already. Mode 1 generally sets **** like 74/74/14/14. This is what Mode 2 does for me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It probably does other stuff as well, but mode 2 tries to push RTL/IOL as tight as they can go. If you can't post with Mode 2 you can usually switch to Mode 1 and easy peasy post.





robertr1 said:


> twrwr_dg = 4
> 
> 8 will kill bw.
> 
> The 2 tertiary timings that are most important are:
> trdrd_dg = 4
> twrwr_dg = 4
> 
> 4 is the minimum you can go. Above 4 = loss in bandwidth. I'd recommend hardsetting them when tuning mem so they always train at 4.





munternet said:


> trdrd_sg=6 or maybe 7
> twrwr_sg=6 or maybe 7
> twrwr_dg=4





Imprezzion said:


> tWR and tCWL and the related tRRD have a huge impact in read/write/copy so that's probably it.





BlueEarth said:


> Your write and copy sucks because your write timings are very loose namely tWCL/tCWL (depends on which apps or board brand you are using) and also the tertiary timings is not tightened.
> With mode 2 the board will tighten your timings so that will help but it won't be as tight as manual setting.
> I've replied to you on the other thread. Let me know how it goes. That setting should be Karhu 30000% stable.






Thank you all for your help!


----------



## Apothysis

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Its a waste of time play with you morons that you don't even try by yourselves.
> 
> This is the results that I only fixed 1st timings and fixed tRFC=320, tREFI=65535, tRDRD_dg=4, tWRWR_dg=4, others were AUTO.
> 
> *MODE 1:*
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=349156&thumb=1
> 
> *MODE 2:*
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=349158&thumb=1
> 
> I don't know what kind of freq have you tried. I can only boot 5000 18-18-36 in MODE 2!!! OR you even don't have a single Maximus XI MB???
> 
> Next time please try something by yourself before making any comments.


Impressive. So the jist of your response is: mode 2 failed training so you blame us.

I have tested everything from 4000 MT/s to 4800 MT/s on the XI Apex, so how about you stop acting like an entitled baby.

Look at your RTL/IOL @ Mode 2. It's clearly trying to tighten down, but it fails on the active channels.

Here's an example of semi-failed Mode 2-training: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/657018064788783114/712259406217085008/unknown.png
You can see one channel fails and thus sits at 71/15 instead of 63/7 (or 62/6).

I have tested this countless times. Try enabling "Round Trip Latency" in training. Let me know when you have actually compared *successful* training a.k.a. 6X/6X/6/6 RTL/IOL and compared bandwidth and latency in Aida.


Edit with more examples:
Successful mode 2-training @ 4600 17-17-17: https://i.imgur.com/gZXAm4K.png
My daily AIDA: https://i.imgur.com/6H31cbQ.png
My daily timings @ mode 2: https://i.imgur.com/Ind74il.png


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Apothysis said:


> Impressive. So the jist of your response is: mode 2 failed training so you blame us.
> 
> I have tested everything from 4000 MT/s to 4800 MT/s on the XI Apex, so how about you stop acting like an entitled baby.
> 
> Look at your RTL/IOL @ Mode 2. It's clearly trying to tighten down, but it fails on the active channels.
> 
> Here's an example of semi-failed Mode 2-training: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/657018064788783114/712259406217085008/unknown.png
> You can see one channel fails and thus sits at 71/15 instead of 63/7 (or 62/6).
> 
> I have tested this countless times. Try enabling "Round Trip Latency" in training. Let me know when you have actually compared *successful* training a.k.a. 6X/6X/6/6 RTL/IOL and compared bandwidth and latency in Aida.
> 
> 
> Edit with more examples:
> Successful mode 2-training @ 4600 17-17-17: https://i.imgur.com/gZXAm4K.png
> My daily AIDA: https://i.imgur.com/6H31cbQ.png
> My daily timings @ mode 2: https://i.imgur.com/Ind74il.png


You are so narrow-sighted that the only thing you see is RTL

MODE 2 tends to adapt your 1st, 2nd, 3rd timings so that higher freq can be booted!

Good luck in booting 5000MHz with your "looser timing TWEAK MODE 1".


----------



## Apothysis

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You are so narrow-sighted that the only thing you see is RTL
> 
> MODE 2 tends to adapt your 1st, 2nd, 3rd timings so that higher freq can be booted!
> 
> Good luck in booting 5000MHz with your "looser timing TWEAK MODE 1".



Dude *** are you smoking? If you leave everything on auto the board will set looser timings than your screenshot. Regardless of mode 1 or 2. It's also VERY easy to set timings yourself so I don't see what your problem is.



It also has nothing to do with the discussion above. If you want to go with loose RTL/IOL and lose out on performance be my guest.


----------



## Jpmboy

actually for 4700 the RTLs and IOLs shown in that screen shot are good for that board. 70/71 is right. Only the D0 values are actual. the other are not used for single rank installs.


----------



## Apothysis

Jpmboy said:


> actually for 4700 the RTLs and IOLs shown in that screen shot are good for that board. 70/71 is right. Only the D0 values are actual. the other are not used for single rank installs.


They're not bad but they will be pushed into the 60-territory along with 6-7 IOL with successfull training. For instance, compare with my 4600 17 above.


----------



## Jpmboy

Falkentyne said:


> Um, someone help me please.
> What just happened?
> 
> I saw that the two patriot 4000 dimms wouldn't even do 1T @ 3600 at 15/15/15/36 in the Z490 Master (but they did do 2T), so I removed them and put them in the M12E, and they booted at 19/19/19/39 1T at 4000...but what's up with my write and copy speeds?
> 
> I put the 2x16 GB gskill CL14 3200's in the Master to see if it would do 1T at 15/15/15/36 3600...because it has no problem doing 15/15/15/36 1T in the Maximus...now I'm even afraid to turn on that system after seeing this....
> Help me
> 
> @Jpmboy


lower WRRD_sg (that 35 is high) and the write/copy sped will come down.


----------



## Jpmboy

Apothysis said:


> They're not bad but they will be pushed into the 60-territory along with 6-7 IOL with successfull training. For instance, compare with my 4600 17 above.


Sure, if the sticks and board are capable, lower RTLs are always faster.


----------



## newls1

How are my RTL's and stuff now since I enabled "mode2" and "trace centering"? Are these okay?

**EDIT** NEVERMIND... my write speed dropped 30000mb/s! *** I went from 60k writes to 31k.. WHY? All i did was enable mode 2 for maximus tweak, and enable trace centering


----------



## Jpmboy

newls1 said:


> How are my RTL's and stuff now since I enabled "mode2" and "trace centering"? Are these okay?
> 
> **EDIT** NEVERMIND... my write speed dropped 30000mb/s! *** I went from 60k writes to 31k.. WHY? All i did was enable mode 2 for maximus tweak, and enable trace centering


Channel B is out of whack. why enable trace centering?

here's a good post about RTLs from our ram Guru, Raja:

_"RTL and IO/L set the IMC schedule. IO/L will vary by DIMM and probably works at the sub DDR clock level. The platform sets these values up by measuring readback time - there are physical constraints such as trace length. If one wishes to run the system tighter than default the only way to do so is to increase voltages so that there is sufficient slew rate and IO drive to ensure reasonable timing sync. The amount of overhead depends on how much margin the buffer stack has - it will eat into that margin. Hence, this type of tweaking is really only for benchmarking - on 24.7 systems taking things tighter than what is sensed by the automated setup routines is likely to result in (more) conditional stability.

There was an old Anandtech article that covered this back in the day when it mattered more because there could be drift in the values at times - I wrote that piece to help people dial that out and experiment:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2869/...e-and-evga-at-the-oc-corral-page-6-updated-/6

At the time, tWCL was auto set on most boards so moving CAS around was sufficient. I think that things have improved a great deal since then - don't find much gain in locking those values down, plus one can disable RTL training now to prevent it anyway (Intel do listen and evolve)."_


----------



## Apothysis

newls1 said:


> How are my RTL's and stuff now since I enabled "mode2" and "trace centering"? Are these okay?
> 
> **EDIT** NEVERMIND... my write speed dropped 30000mb/s! *** I went from 60k writes to 31k.. WHY? All i did was enable mode 2 for maximus tweak, and enable trace centering



Same issue as Falkentyne above. tWRWR_dg needs to be set to 4.


RTL/IOL look better. RTL (CHA) and IO-L (CHA) trained successfully, CHB didn't fully get there. You can either try manually setting CHB to 62/62/6/6 or rebooting a couple of time to see if it aligns.


Trace centering shouldn't be enabled for 2T.


----------



## newls1

Jpmboy said:


> Channel B is out of whack. why enable trace centering?
> 
> here's a good post about RTLs from our ram Guru, Raja:
> 
> _"RTL and IO/L set the IMC schedule. IO/L will vary by DIMM and probably works at the sub DDR clock level. The platform sets these values up by measuring readback time - there are physical constraints such as trace length. If one wishes to run the system tighter than default the only way to do so is to increase voltages so that there is sufficient slew rate and IO drive to ensure reasonable timing sync. The amount of overhead depends on how much margin the buffer stack has - it will eat into that margin. Hence, this type of tweaking is really only for benchmarking - on 24.7 systems taking things tighter than what is sensed by the automated setup routines is likely to result in (more) conditional stability.
> 
> There was an old Anandtech article that covered this back in the day when it mattered more because there could be drift in the values at times - I wrote that piece to help people dial that out and experiment:
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2869/...e-and-evga-at-the-oc-corral-page-6-updated-/6
> 
> At the time, tWCL was auto set on most boards so moving CAS around was sufficient. I think that things have improved a great deal since then - don't find much gain in locking those values down, plus one can disable RTL training now to prevent it anyway (Intel do listen and evolve)."_


Im back on mode 1, still have trace centering enabled... JPMBOY, I was told yesterday to enable trace centering, should i NOT? Here is a current snappy of my ram, is it better?


----------



## Jpmboy

newls1 said:


> Im back on mode 1, still have trace centering enabled... JPMBOY, I was told yesterday to enable trace centering, should i NOT? Here is a current snappy of my ram, is it better?


certainly the RTL alignment is better. check performance and then stability... but there is no reason to check stability if the performance is fouled or poor (which usually means it is not gonna be test stable anyway).


----------



## newls1

Jpmboy said:


> certainly the RTL alignment is better. check performance and then stability... but there is no reason to check stability if the performance is fouled or poor (which usually means it is not gonna be test stable anyway).


performance is much improved... 60k for reads/writes now have to work on my latency.. im stuck at 44ns. Should I lock these RTL's in the bios now?


----------



## newls1

Apothysis said:


> Same issue as Falkentyne above. tWRWR_dg needs to be set to 4.
> 
> 
> RTL/IOL look better. RTL (CHA) and IO-L (CHA) trained successfully, CHB didn't fully get there. You can either try manually setting CHB to 62/62/6/6 or rebooting a couple of time to see if it aligns.
> 
> 
> Trace centering shouldn't be enabled for 2T.


ok, thanks, ill disable it


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

newls1 said:


> performance is much improved... 60k for reads/writes now have to work on my latency.. im stuck at 44ns. Should I lock these RTL's in the bios now?


Have you tried IOL OFFSET=15~16?


----------



## newls1

no sir, not yet. still trying to figure this all out. So far I tried to boot at CL16 @ 1.41v and no go. Back to CL17.. mode 1, and I manually locked in my RTL's in the BIOS. Seems to post slightly faster now. Changed trfc to 374, now im trying to figure out what to set my TREFI to?


----------



## Apothysis

Look, you guys are free to do whatever you want to your setups. But if I were you, I wouldn't want to leave performance on the table, that's the only reason I came into this thread.


Here's Mode 1 with still relatively tight RTL/IOL:


Spoiler
















Here's Mode 2 with *successful training*:


Spoiler
















Whatever Raja may have said about RTL/IOL and stability in *2009 *seems kind of irrelevant to me and what IMC's are capable of today. You want to know what's more important? The fact that I only need 1.25v IO/SA for Mode 2, while it doesn't even _post_ with 1.25v IO/SA, I had to bump it up to 1.3v. Do with this information what you want, I'm done caring.


----------



## newls1

Apothysis said:


> Look, you guys are free to do whatever you want to your setups. But if I were you, I wouldn't want to leave performance on the table, that's the only reason I came into this thread.
> 
> 
> Here's Mode 1 with still relatively tight RTL/IOL:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's Mode 2 with *successful training*:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever Raja may have said about RTL/IOL and stability in *2009 *seems kind of irrelevant to me and what IMC's are capable of today. You want to know what's more important? The fact that I only need 1.25v IO/SA for Mode 2, while it doesn't even _post_ with 1.25v IO/SA, I had to bump it up to 1.3v. Do with this information what you want, I'm done caring.


WAIT!! Before you go, do i set my TREFI too?


----------



## Jpmboy

newls1 said:


> performance is much improved... 60k for reads/writes now have to work on my latency.. im stuck at 44ns. Should I lock these RTL's in the bios now?


yeah - you can lock those and focus more on the primary timings like Rfc, tWR, tCWL - these will lower the latency. Also take the value of tREFI you have there and double it. :thumb:
RTP -> 8
tCWL -> 14 or 15 (as low as possible)
tWR -> 15 if possible. big gains possible, but also very :destabilizing" if too low.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

newls1 said:


> no sir, not yet. still trying to figure this all out. So far I tried to boot at CL16 @ 1.41v and no go. Back to CL17.. mode 1, and I manually locked in my RTL's in the BIOS. Seems to post slightly faster now. Changed trfc to 374, now im trying to figure out what to set my TREFI to?


Try that. It should decrease your RTL A LOT.


----------



## robertr1

Apothysis said:


> Look, you guys are free to do whatever you want to your setups. But if I were you, I wouldn't want to leave performance on the table, that's the only reason I came into this thread.
> 
> 
> Here's Mode 1 with still relatively tight RTL/IOL:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's Mode 2 with *successful training*:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever Raja may have said about RTL/IOL and stability in *2009 *seems kind of irrelevant to me and what IMC's are capable of today. You want to know what's more important? The fact that I only need 1.25v IO/SA for Mode 2, while it doesn't even _post_ with 1.25v IO/SA, I had to bump it up to 1.3v. Do with this information what you want, I'm done caring.


Thanks for doing this. This is inline with my findings when doing tuning on my Apex also. 

There's nothing wrong with Mode 1 if that's all your kit allows. However, as shown above, Mode 2's tight RTL's lead to a notable gain in latency. 

As someone who wants to max out his daily stable for all it's worth, I'll happily take it.


----------



## newls1

Jpmboy said:


> yeah - you can lock those and focus more on the primary timings like Rfc, tWR, tCWL - these will lower the latency. Also take the value of tREFI you have there and double it. :thumb:
> RTP -> 8
> tCWL -> 14 or 15 (as low as possible)
> tWR -> 15 if possible. big gains possible, but also very :destabilizing" if too low.


I took tREFI to 65535 as ive seen that on just about everybodys posts... is this bad? I just ran memtestpro and completed 51% coverage and I stopped it. as soon as I stopped it, I got a bsod LOL! set trefi back to auto and so far so good. Ill work on your above suggestions now. thanks

**EDIT** can twr be an even number like 16 too?
TWR is showing 17 in that pic, but in bios its set to 16. I set it to 15 in bios, and now its showing 16 in asrock timing config. I changed RTP to 8. So total changes are RTP = 8 and TWR = 16. im off to memtest.


----------



## SoldierRBT

I haven't done much tweaking when it comes to memory OC in the Z390 Apex but, from my experience, Mode 2 only works for me with 4133 C16 1T, 4400 C17 2T and 4500 C17 2T. Mode 2 sets tight timings which helps performance. Even though Mode 1 will set looser timings, my PC won't boot with any these memory speeds. My 4600 C17 profile won't boot mode 2. I had to set Mode 1 and enable Round trip latency to get tight RTL/IOLs. At 4700 C18 profile Mode 1 works but if I enable Round trip latency, PC won't boot. I had to set RTL/IOLs manually in order to boot. 5000MHz CL 18-22-22-42 only boots at Mode 1.


----------



## newls1

Jpmboy said:


> yeah - you can lock those and focus more on the primary timings like Rfc, tWR, tCWL - these will lower the latency. Also take the value of tREFI you have there and double it. :thumb:
> RTP -> 8
> tCWL -> 14 or 15 (as low as possible)
> tWR -> 15 if possible. big gains possible, but also very :destabilizing" if too low.


set twr to 15 in bios, but shows as 16?? Why Just got to 50% coverage no errors with this config. Latency dropped .5 to 42.4. Changed RTP = 8, I dont think i changed TCWL yet, so ill work on that. What i find so weird is that I can NOT adjust tREFI and not get BSOD's.. Ive changed that damn setting to 32000, 28000, 65535, and something else, and pc IS NOT STABLE at any thing i adjust that to. If i leave it to "Auto" all seems fine, which gives me 15xxx.. Why is this? What else is left on the table?


----------



## kevindd992002

So I've been using my G. Skill 2x8GB sticks (F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW) at XMP with my ASUS Maximus X Code and 8700K for a few years now and they were pretty much stable up to this point where I had an out of the nowhere BSOD while Win 10 was just on the desktop.

I thought it was one time thing and I let it go (just forced reboot). But then it started BSOD'ing again until it came to a point where the machine wasn't able to POST anymore with Q code 55 (no memory installed). Tried MemOK, Clear CMOS, ReTry, etc. to no avail.

I then started testing my RAM modules.
1. Switched both modules from A2/B2 slots to A1/B1 -> TEST FAILED
2. Removed stick2 and tested stick1 in each or the 4 slots -> ALL TESTS FAILED
3. Removed stick1 and tested stick2 -> ALL TESTS SUCCEEDED!

I mean, it's obvious to me that stick1's the culrpit and I need to send back to G. Skill but I guess I just wanted to pick your brains out and wanted confirmation, which is why I posted. I've had my fair share of bad RAM modules in the past but never to the point that it won't let my machine POST.

Any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## newls1

im giving up on adjusting tREFI.. if i change it from anything OTHER then "auto", I get BSOD's....


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi guys.
Daisy Chain's path to T-patology
Corsair Vengeance LpX Red Version BoX AiR 16Gb 2x8 (CMK16GX4M2B4266C19R)
Galaxy Hall of Fame Extreme Ceramic White 16Gb 2x8 (HOF4CXL1BST4000M19SF162K)


----------



## ogider

fly1ngh1gh
I had comparable clock for 4x8 with z370 taichi and 8700k
For 2x16 I cant reach 4k. Sitting few months on this setting instead.

f4-3200c14d-32gtz
1.488V


----------



## Gen.

I continue to test my memory (2 sticks from F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK)


----------



## Jpmboy

newls1 said:


> I took tREFI to 65535 as ive seen that on just about everybodys posts... is this bad? I just ran memtestpro and completed 51% coverage and I stopped it. as soon as I stopped it, I got a bsod LOL! * set trefi back to auto and so far so good*. Ill work on your above suggestions now. thanks
> 
> **EDIT** *can twr be an even number like 16 too?*
> TWR is showing 17 in that pic, but in bios its set to 16. I set it to 15 in bios, and now its showing 16 in asrock timing config. I changed RTP to 8. So total changes are RTP = 8 and TWR = 16. im off to memtest.





newls1 said:


> *set twr to 15 in bios, but shows as 16?*? Why Just got to 50% coverage no errors with this config. Latency dropped .5 to 42.4. Changed RTP = 8, I dont think i changed TCWL yet, so ill work on that. What i find so weird is that I can NOT adjust tREFI and not get BSOD's.. Ive changed that damn setting to 32000, 28000, 65535, and something else, and pc IS NOT STABLE at any thing i adjust that to. If i leave it to "Auto" all seems fine, which gives me 15xxx.. Why is this? What else is left on the table?





newls1 said:


> *im giving up on adjusting tREFI.. if i change it from anything OTHER then "auto", I get BSOD'*s....


tREFI at 65535 is the chipset/IMC max. Very long waits between refresh can cause memory corruption thru decay. 2x the value set by auto should work, if not try raising RAS by 20-50 increments. Long REFI can also result in standby (suspend-to-ram) failure, so using the chipset limit is really only useful or meaningful for some benchmarks (like Pi or AID64), otherwise it buys very little in real world performance.
tWR reading by the asrock TC can be wrong. Verify that the chipset is not correcting a riming error by looking at ASUS memtweakit. tWR can be = CAS or a few ticks lower depending on the ICs and density. Be sure to try tFAW at 4x tRRD. and remember, tRAS >= CAS+RCD+RTP (+/-2). Low RAS values cause inefficiency since the window will cycle a bizillion times if too short.


----------



## newls1

Jpmboy said:


> tREFI at 65535 is the chipset/IMC max. Very long waits between refresh can cause memory corruption thru decay. 2x the value set by auto should work, if not try raising RAS by 20-50 increments. Long REFI can also result in standby (suspend-to-ram) failure, so using the chipset limit is really only useful or meaningful for some benchmarks (like Pi or AID64), otherwise it buys very little in real world performance.
> tWR reading by the asrock TC can be wrong. Verify that the chipset is not correcting a riming error by looking at ASUS memtweakit. tWR can be = CAS or a few ticks lower depending on the ICs and density. Be sure to try tFAW at 4x tRRD. and remember, tRAS >= CAS+RCD+RTP (+/-2). Low RAS values cause inefficiency since the window will cycle a bizillion times if too short.


thanks for the reply, much appreciated. My tFAW is set correctly @16 (tRRD is @ 4) ill continue with mem tweaking tomorrow, gets super frustrating FAST! Downloaded the asus mem tweakit app. Pretty cool app, never used it before. Thanks for the heads up


----------



## robertr1

Use twrpre to adjust twr on Asus.


----------



## Imprezzion

I got pretty close to stability on 4500 18-18-18-36-400-2T but unfortunately it errors at ~250-300% passes in HCI. I'm already at 1.58v DRAM and 1.32v SA 1.27v IO. I really don't feel like going any higher lol. Not because of degradation or whatever, that's just part of overclocking a bit more "extremely" but because the DIMM's get close to the thermal instability point. Heck, the error might even be temp related as they did get up to about 47c during the test, even with my fan for the RAM running. 

I did get 4500 19-19-19-39-400-2T at like, 1.55v to pass 1100% no errors but that isn't really "faster" latency wise compared to 4133 16-17-17 so..not sure if that is a good idea to run lol.

Time to continue tweaking random combinations of timings and frequencies tomorrow while working from home out of pure boredom.


----------



## BlueEarth

It seems I have different opinion about tRAS compared to everyone else. It should be set as low as possible in the bios which is still stable.

First when you reduce tRAS lower, it will drive your L2 bandwidth higher without loss in anything else. In mainstream it is capped at 28 however in HEDT it is possible to set it below 28. The worst it can do is error like all other timings when set to low.

It is true that some formula can be used to determine good starting value however it is not absolute and that’s it, it is only starting value.

Why I came into such conclusion?

1. If you look into data sheet, tRAS is written as time (ns) and not number of clock (ns) which means it can be any arbitrary value no minimum clock. For comparison tFAW is written in both time (ns) and nck and if you go below the minimum nck (which is 16 in this case) you will lose performance of your L3 write.

2. If the chipset will cycle over when tRAS is too low it should behave like tFAW or tRRD where it doesn’t care even if you set it to 1. But with tRAS instead it will error out if too low showing that the chipset is not actually cycling trying to catch up.

3. Another look at the data sheet for example Samsung b-die (attached) reveal that higher stock frequency will have tCL, tRCD, tRP going up as well as expected however it has the tRAS lower. If tRAS somehow is derived from those it should also going up or at least the same if the increase is not significant, isn’t it?

4. Besides if there is exact super secret formula I think bios will simply not include it into the setting you can tweak (like tRC is not in Asus bios since it has definitive fixed formula of tRAS + tRP) or the value will be set automatically when you lower other related timings ala tWTR_S and L via tWRRD or tWR via tWRPRE and tCWL.

Probably I will get flame for this but before there is definitive proof and we still have tons of formula for it I stand by my experience.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I got pretty close to stability on 4500 18-18-18-36-400-2T but unfortunately it errors at ~250-300% passes in HCI. I'm already at 1.58v DRAM and 1.32v SA 1.27v IO. I really don't feel like going any higher lol. Not because of degradation or whatever, that's just part of overclocking a bit more "extremely" but because the DIMM's get close to the thermal instability point. Heck, the error might even be temp related as they did get up to about 47c during the test, even with my fan for the RAM running.
> 
> I did get 4500 19-19-19-39-400-2T at like, 1.55v to pass 1100% no errors but that isn't really "faster" latency wise compared to 4133 16-17-17 so..not sure if that is a good idea to run lol.
> 
> Time to continue tweaking random combinations of timings and frequencies tomorrow while working from home out of pure boredom.


See if you can find the sweet spot for CL17 :thumb:


----------



## Jpmboy

I know you guys in this thread are mainly doing 1151 and 1200 socketed gear (I do to  )... but here's a compute box set up with 3 titan Vs, 7980XE and 64GB of ram. The IMC on this CPU is not as strong as on my 10980XE or 99--X for that matter, but damn this thing just crushes FP64 work. 
I'm keeping the 3600c15 w/ tight secondaries for 24/7 and will further tune the 2h GSAT stable 3733c15, but the RTLs - well this board's A channel has a fast RTL vs the other 3. This was the same using 8GB sticks at the IMCs margin boundary. [email protected] or [email protected] channel A runs tight (always -2 vs the other 3). The IMC sets RTL and this is the clear margin edge for this board/cpu combo. Compute work requires a really stable system, and some of the stuff in Boinc for example will use up 30GB of ram (and heat sticks) pretty quiick. :O
Anyway - for your perusal.
16GB G.Skill Royals (RGB) - samsung B-die.


----------



## ViTosS

Just installed my Apex XI and it's running smooth, now to RAM OC, booted sucessfully at [email protected] (that wasn't possible boot over 4000Mhz no matter settings with my old Z370 Hero X), so where do I download just that TurboV Core app very clean and simple UI? I downloaded Asus Ai Suite 3 something like that and it has a bunch of other programs I don't need.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Just installed my Apex XI and it's running smooth, now to RAM OC, booted sucessfully at [email protected] (that wasn't possible boot over 4000Mhz no matter settings with my old Z370 Hero X), so where do I download just that TurboV Core app very clean and simple UI? I downloaded Asus Ai Suite 3 something like that and it has a bunch of other programs I don't need.


Try this 
TurboV_Core_1.02.02.zip


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

ogider said:


> fly1ngh1gh
> I had comparable clock for 4x8 with z370 taichi and 8700k
> For 2x16 I cant reach 4k. Sitting few months on this setting instead.
> 
> f4-3200c14d-32gtz


You need to pick up the resistance (RW, PARK, NOM), if you do not go higher in frequency. Correctly selected resistances give a boost in frequency. Unfortunately, I can't give you specific recommendations, because everything is individual on each system. You should also tweak the timings a little. You don't need to use 1T mode when selecting resistances, since this is an additional load for your memory.



newls1 said:


> **EDIT** can twr be an even number like 16 too?
> TWR is showing 17 in that pic, but in bios its set to 16. I set it to 15 in bios, and now its showing 16 in asrock timing config. I changed RTP to 8. So total changes are RTP = 8 and TWR = 16. im off to memtest.


You just have to follow these formulas for the Asus Board.
WTRS/L are installed in the BIOS via WRRDdg/sg according to the formula:

WRRD_sg=6+CWL+WTR_L
WRRD_dg=6+CWL+WTR_S

WR-install via WRPRE
WRPRE=4+CWL+WR
RTP-install via RDPRE
RDPRE=RTP


----------



## xSneak

How are the new 10th gen cpus performing on memory overclocking? The core i7s and i9s have the upgraded memory controller supposedly.


----------



## robertr1

Gen. said:


> I continue to test my memory (2 sticks from F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK)


Have you done anything under dram timing control advanced settings? like slew rates, dram clock timers, termination voltages etc? Curious to know if you modified anything except for timings and voltages (dram/io/sa)


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> See if you can find the sweet spot for CL17 :thumb:


I managed to push it to 4200Mhz 17-17-17-34-320 with quite tight secondaries and tertiaries with Auto Optimized RTL/IO for now. It did a 500% 2h44m HCI run with no errors. I'll obviously do GSAT or something as well but this is a nice indication of general stability.

It did require me to bump from 1.46v to 1.50v on DRAM as 1.46v did error after like, 80% already. This is as high as CL17 will get me as even 4266 will go completely bonkers. I can't even pass a succesful Windows boot at 4266 with the same timings, even on 1.6v. So there's quite a wall there.

As my sig says i can get away with 16-17-17 on 4200 but it needs 1.54v at least and way way way looser secondaries. I can't get below 16 tWR or 18 tCWL for example on CL16 and it ends up being slower in AIDA.


----------



## newls1

Little Follow up from yesterday. I increased my mem speed to 4133 (now using 1.45vdimm) still @ CL17/17/17/37 I memtest stable to atleast all threads reached 50% coverage then I STOPPED THE TEST. few questions; 

1) Am i safe to use B-Die ram at 1.45v for daily use (sticks have 12 fans blowing over them so heat is a non issue) 
2) In the included picture, what settings might you suggest to adjust for more stability with little impact to performance or just leave it alone? 

Yesterday I tuned my ram to 4000 and adjusted what was told to me to adjust, then memtested for ~15ish minutes and all seemed fine. This morning just at desktop my mouse froze up, and i got pissed. this 4000 speed was using 1.40v with 17/17/17 timings. So since i got that lockup, I went back in bios, set 4133, increased vdimm to 1.45v, and put all the secondary mem timings back to "auto" (except a few) and now I have the given mem settings in the included picture. Am i safe running this daily, and does it look okay? really appreciate your time in assisting me..


----------



## ViTosS

What's the best BIOS for Apex XI for RAM OC? Seems I didn't have much luck with mine, idk if limited by RAM bin or my CPU IMC, but I can't do [email protected], only [email protected], but [email protected] seems possible, didn't try anything else


----------



## bp7178

newls1 said:


> Little Follow up from yesterday. I increased my mem speed to 4133 (now using 1.45vdimm) still @ CL17/17/17/37 I memtest stable to atleast all threads reached 50% coverage then I STOPPED THE TEST. few questions;
> 
> 1) Am i safe to use B-Die ram at 1.45v for daily use (sticks have 12 fans blowing over them so heat is a non issue)


1.45v is perfectly fine for B-Die. Its the XMP voltage for my Patriot Viper kit. You can go up to 1.50v and still be OK. Past 1.50v heat starts to become a problem in my experience. 

I've noticed I could easily pass short benchmarks and stress tests but as the RAM would heat up stability went down.


----------



## newls1

bp7178 said:


> 1.45v is perfectly fine for B-Die. Its the XMP voltage for my Patriot Viper kit. You can go up to 1.50v and still be OK. Past 1.50v heat starts to become a problem in my experience.
> 
> I've noticed I could easily pass short benchmarks and stress tests but as the RAM would heat up stability went down.


thank you


----------



## opt33

Incompatible bios RTL setting or lousy dimm slot? Using Patriot viper steel 2x8gb 4400cl19 ram.

-In dimm2 slot memtest is rock stable, XMP downclocked to 4000 is of course stable, Cl17 with tighter secondary timings memtest overnight no errors. Many tweaks, many stable hci memtest runs. 

-In dimm1 slot memtest always fails in 10-15 mins with few errors, and 50+ errors if goes an hour, including xmp downclocked to 4000. 20 trials, no setting or voltage makes it past 10 mins of memtest, until decrease speed enough where RTL changes off of 70/68, then will pass memtest.

So is RTL setting in dimm1 of 70/68 that unstable (vs rock stable dimm2 with RTL 70/70) or just subpar dimm slot? If z390 gigabyte aura master had way to manually change RTL, then could figure it out. Not interest in rmaing board, just any other ideas on how to test or anyone else have problems with that board/ram, I have switched ram back and forth multiple times, always same result. 

pic 1: dimm2 slot stable overnight

pic 2: same settings in dimm1 fails in 10 mins just like 20+ trials including xmp downclocked fails in 10 mins. Only decreasing speed to low 3000's which change RTLs passes.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

opt33 said:


> Incompatible bios RTL setting or lousy dimm slot? Using Patriot viper steel 2x8gb 4400cl19 ram.
> 
> -In dimm2 slot memtest is rock stable, XMP downclocked to 4000 is of course stable, Cl17 with tighter secondary timings memtest overnight no errors. Many tweaks, many stable hci memtest runs.
> 
> -In dimm1 slot memtest always fails in 10-15 mins with few errors, and 50+ errors if goes an hour, including xmp downclocked to 4000. 20 trials, no setting or voltage makes it past 10 mins of memtest, until decrease speed enough where RTL changes off of 70/68, then will pass memtest.
> 
> So is RTL setting in dimm1 of 70/68 that unstable (vs rock stable dimm2 with RTL 70/70) or just subpar dimm slot? If z390 gigabyte aura master had way to manually change RTL, then could figure it out. Not interest in rmaing board, just any other ideas on how to test or anyone else have problems with that board/ram, I have switched ram back and forth multiple times, always same result.
> 
> pic 1: dimm2 slot stable overnight
> 
> pic 2: same settings in dimm1 fails in 10 mins just like 20+ trials including xmp downclocked fails in 10 mins. Only decreasing speed to low 3000's which change RTLs passes.



Have you tried increasing any voltages to support the lower rtl?


----------



## opt33

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Have you tried increasing any voltages to support the lower rtl?


yep, on dimm2 4000cl17 with 70/70 stable with 1.4 dram and vccio/sa 1.27 each. With dimm1 68/70 have tried voltage increments up to 1.37 vccio/sa and 1.5 dram (beyond what I would use 24/7). errors same time within 10-15mins. I also tried change ctl but corresponding RTL still unstable on dimm1, not dimm2...Only if I drop sub 3000ish and RTL drops down significantly then seems to work fine. But thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

opt33 said:


> yep, on dimm2 4000cl17 with 70/70 stable with 1.4 dram and vccio/sa 1.27 each. With dimm1 68/70 have tried voltage increments up to 1.37 vccio/sa and 1.5 dram (beyond what I would use 24/7). errors same time within 10-15mins. I also tried change ctl but corresponding RTL still unstable on dimm1, not dimm2...Only if I drop sub 3000ish and RTL drops down significantly then seems to work fine. But thanks for the suggestion.



Have you tried adding more vcore?


----------



## opt33

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Have you tried adding more vcore?


nope, but will try that, thanks.

edit: increasing vcore didnt help, actually had tried stock cpu settings in past which didnt work either. 

Your other post of higher voltages got me thinking....I tried higher voltages with some looser timings, and tried crazy loose secondary timings via non xmp, but havent tried higher volts with crazy loose non xmp timings. Maybe I have 2 problems, need higher volts for cl17 with rtl 68/70 plus did not loosen up some other secondary timing enough from xmp. So running 4000cl17 with higher volts with non xmp crazy loose secondary timings, ftaw is like 42, so far at 40% coverage which is farther than normal, but will see. If that works than less likely bad slot...and just dealing with 2 issues and only solving 1 at time didnt help. Then can walk down voltages/timings and figure out what was the issue, though if requires that much looser secondaries will have better performance and voltages on dimm2 anyways...but still nice to figure it out.

Thanks again for the suggestions!


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> nope, but will try that, thanks.
> 
> edit: increasing vcore didnt help, actually had tried stock cpu settings in past which didnt work either.
> 
> Your other post of higher voltages got me thinking....I tried higher voltages with some looser timings, and tried crazy loose secondary timings via non xmp, but havent tried higher volts with crazy loose non xmp timings. Maybe I have 2 problems, need higher volts for cl17 with rtl 68/70 plus did not loosen up some other secondary timing enough from xmp. So running 4000cl17 with higher volts with non xmp crazy loose secondary timings, ftaw is like 42, so far at 40% coverage which is farther than normal, but will see. If that works than less likely bad slot...and just dealing with 2 issues and only solving 1 at time didnt help. Then can walk down voltages/timings and figure out what was the issue, though if requires that much looser secondaries will have better performance and voltages on dimm2 anyways...but still nice to figure it out.
> 
> Thanks again for the suggestions!


what board is this again? if its an asus maximus version, have you tried shamino's 0041 bios'es that he posted up yet?


----------



## Jpmboy

opt33 said:


> Incompatible bios RTL setting or lousy dimm slot? Using Patriot viper steel 2x8gb 4400cl19 ram.
> 
> -In dimm2 slot memtest is rock stable, XMP downclocked to 4000 is of course stable, Cl17 with tighter secondary timings memtest overnight no errors. Many tweaks, many stable hci memtest runs.
> 
> -In dimm1 slot memtest always fails in 10-15 mins with few errors, and 50+ errors if goes an hour, including xmp downclocked to 4000. 20 trials, no setting or voltage makes it past 10 mins of memtest, until decrease speed enough where RTL changes off of 70/68, then will pass memtest.
> 
> So is RTL setting in dimm1 of 70/68 that unstable (vs rock stable dimm2 with RTL 70/70) or just subpar dimm slot? If z390 gigabyte aura master had way to manually change RTL, then could figure it out. Not interest in rmaing board, just any other ideas on how to test or anyone else have problems with that board/ram, I have switched ram back and forth multiple times, always same result.
> 
> pic 1: dimm2 slot stable overnight
> 
> pic 2: same settings in dimm1 fails in 10 mins just like 20+ trials including xmp downclocked fails in 10 mins. Only decreasing speed to low 3000's which change RTLs passes.


Why are you putting sticks in cross slots? If I'm reading those snips correctly. Populating slot 1 for channel A and slot 2 channel B (or what ever you are doing there) is not likely to be a configuration recommended by Gigabyte - right? No surprise that a non-supported configuration is giving strange results.


----------



## Jpmboy

newls1 said:


> Little Follow up from yesterday. I increased my mem speed to 4133 (now using 1.45vdimm) still @ CL17/17/17/37 I memtest stable to atleast all threads reached 50% coverage then I STOPPED THE TEST. few questions;
> 
> 1) Am i safe to use B-Die ram at 1.45v for daily use (sticks have 12 fans blowing over them so heat is a non issue)
> 2) In the included picture, what settings might you suggest to adjust for more stability with little impact to performance or just leave it alone?
> 
> Yesterday I tuned my ram to 4000 and adjusted what was told to me to adjust, then memtested for ~15ish minutes and all seemed fine. This morning just at desktop my mouse froze up, and i got pissed. this 4000 speed was using 1.40v with 17/17/17 timings. So since i got that lockup, I went back in bios, set 4133, increased vdimm to 1.45v, and put all the secondary mem timings back to "auto" (except a few) and now I have the given mem settings in the included picture. Am i safe running this daily, and does it look okay? really appreciate your time in assisting me..


1.45V is fine for DDR4 and 1151 socket chips... but remember, the VDIMM spec limit is not really a RAM issue, it is the CPU IMC (Intel sets the VDIMM limit for the platform, not the ram manufacturers). There are several CPU voltages that change automatically based on VDIMM - that's the reason Intel sets the voltage limit for system memory.


----------



## The Pook

Jpmboy said:


> I know you guys in this thread are mainly doing 1151 and 1200 socketed gear (I do to  )... but here's a compute box set up with 3 titan Vs, 7980XE and 64GB of ram.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> what board is this again? if its an asus maximus version, have you tried shamino's 0041 bios'es that he posted up yet?


gigabyte aorus master, though gigabytes bios are not great for memory, this one seems worse than normal, may go asus next time. 
@Jpmboy, dimms are in correct slots. Pics show channels A/B D0 populated or A/B D1 populated. 

looks like RTL 68/70 just wont do Cl17 mem stable but RTL 70/70 will.


----------



## ViTosS

Guys I tried to replicate the same RAM OC that I had in my old Maximus X to the new Apex XI, one thing I noticed in DRAM Timings is that I had to set TWRPRE to 30 instead of 32 to match the 12 tWR, and I showed some other settings that are different from the old motherboard, I only changed the essential and left the rest on AUTO as always, shouldn't the timings be the same this way?

PS: Didn't see in Maximus X I had 65535 TREFI and Apex XI had 65534 btw


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ViTosS said:


> Guys I tried to replicate the same RAM OC that I had in my old Maximus X to the new Apex XI, one thing I noticed in DRAM Timings is that I had to set TWRPRE to 30 instead of 32 to match the 12 tWR, and I showed some other settings that are different from the old motherboard, I only changed the essential and left the rest on AUTO as always, shouldn't the timings be the same this way?
> 
> PS: Didn't see in Maximus X I had 65535 TREFI and Apex XI had 65534 btw


The motherboard layouts are different. Better design can achieve lower latency.


----------



## Jpmboy

opt33 said:


> gigabyte aorus master, though gigabytes bios are not great for memory, this one seems worse than normal, may go asus next time.
> 
> @Jpmboy, dimms are in correct slots. Pics show channels A/B D0 populated or A/B D1 populated.
> 
> looks like RTL 68/70 just wont do Cl17 mem stable but RTL 70/70 will.


Ah I see my error - the arrows fooled these old eyes. I read the "problem" differently. ChA Slot1 is the faster layout (back to the IMC). The other 3 are "average. A1 is your benching slot. 
But seriously, my Apex VI does the same. ChA1 is 2 ticks faster that the other 3 when pushed to the margins. Runs very stable at 57/59/59/59 when all slots are populated. When I back off from 4000 (or 4200) at 32GB, the RTLs align properly. The Apex VI is a special case where all slot traces where "supposed" to be identical (not my sample tho  ). 
Can you manually set 68/68? Or 70/70 on that board? I know my x299 G9 and G7 really don't like that.


----------



## Jpmboy

The Pook said:


>


What? .. gotta go grocery shopping.


----------



## opt33

Jpmboy said:


> Ah I see my error - the arrows fooled these old eyes. I read the "problem" differently. ChA Slot1 is the faster layout (back to the IMC). The other 3 are "average. A1 is your benching slot.
> But seriously, my Apex VI does the same. ChA1 is 2 ticks faster that the other 3 when pushed to the margins. Runs very stable at 57/59/59/59 when all slots are populated. When I back off from 4000 (or 4200) at 32GB, the RTLs align properly. The Apex VI is a special case where all slot traces where "supposed" to be identical (not my sample tho  ).
> Can you manually set 68/68? Or 70/70 on that board? I know my x299 G9 and G7 really don't like that.


Unfortunately no way to manually change RTL beyond about 3000mem as auto only, would have been great for troubleshooting, others with this same board complaining of same issue. 70/70 is dimm2 slot RTL with 4000Cl17 in other pic that is very stable with tighter timings. Was just interested in trying other slots since faster but no luck with memtest, crazy how much stability differs between 2.


----------



## BlueEarth

ViTosS said:


> Guys I tried to replicate the same RAM OC that I had in my old Maximus X to the new Apex XI, one thing I noticed in DRAM Timings is that I had to set TWRPRE to 30 instead of 32 to match the 12 tWR, and I showed some other settings that are different from the old motherboard, I only changed the essential and left the rest on AUTO as always, shouldn't the timings be the same this way?
> 
> PS: Didn't see in Maximus X I had 65535 TREFI and Apex XI had 65534 btw


Probably different in maximus tweak mode? Probably one is set in mode 1 while the other is set in mode 2? Just a quick guess.


----------



## BlueEarth

opt33 said:


> Jpmboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah I see my error - the arrows fooled these old eyes. I read the "problem" differently. ChA Slot1 is the faster layout (back to the IMC). The other 3 are "average. A1 is your benching slot. /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> But seriously, my Apex VI does the same. ChA1 is 2 ticks faster that the other 3 when pushed to the margins. Runs very stable at 57/59/59/59 when all slots are populated. When I back off from 4000 (or 4200) at 32GB, the RTLs align properly. The Apex VI is a special case where all slot traces where "supposed" to be identical (not my sample tho /forum/images/smilies/redface.gif ).
> Can you manually set 68/68? Or 70/70 on that board? I know my x299 G9 and G7 really don't like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately no way to manually change RTL beyond about 3000mem as auto only, would have been great for troubleshooting, others with this same board complaining of same issue. 70/70 is dimm2 slot RTL with 4000Cl17 in other pic that is very stable with tighter timings. Was just interested in trying other slots since faster but no luck with memtest, crazy how much stability differs between 2.
Click to expand...

I had the same issue with my maximus xi formula. So few remedies worth to try this is not a CureALL or something just thing you can try.

1. Populate all dimm slot. Also the secondary slot (if your board has it). You may not able to achieve the same oc especially if your memory is dual ranked but it will help signal integrity a bit. Depends on how severe the difference this can help to level out without reducing your oc.

2. Relax the timings to match the minimum rtl to the highest stable. In your case relax your timing until the 68 become 70 which is the setting your board and memory comfortable with at given voltage.

3. Increase the voltages, vdram, vccio and vccsa. Probably vccio will help in the case where trace layout is the problem. This is the solution I choose.
You may ran out of voltage budget but for what it worth in my different rig with MXIGene I ran my 9900K close to 6 months (since December 2019) with both vccio and vccsa at 1.375v and 1.45vdram without any degradation so far.

4. You can also try the I/O offset see if it can balance your rtl. But in my experience with picky board this will not help especially when you push the oc to the edge.


----------



## ViTosS

This is how it is atm, well I guess Samsung B-Die and Apex XI can't always guarantee you a good latency and RAM OC capability 

DRAM 1.470v
VCCIO/VCCSA 1.22500


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I just went deep into the 35ns latency range. And yes, 28 tRAS and 280 tRFC with a lower tREFI are WAY faster then 32 tRAS, 320 tRFC and 65xxx tREFI. So for some reason tRAS lower then what the formula says it should be scales very well for my setup. 

I did need a lot (1.56v BIOS 1.552v load) of DRAM voltage to get this stable but temps are fine. It should handle this just fine. 

4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T 32400 tREFI with all manual secondary / tertiary and manual RTL/IO as well. I'm not going to get it any better then this lol.
Like, maybe, just maaaybe there's a tiny bit of room in tWRWR and tRDRD but.. not sure about that lol. Let's try 

EDIT: Nope, lower tWRWR or tRDRD won't train at all. It goes to like 60/68/7/11 or something wierd like that. Have to call it a day here. I'm never going to find any more improvements in any timings compared to this.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Well, I just went deep into the 35ns latency range. And yes, 28 tRAS and 280 tRFC with a lower tREFI are WAY faster then 32 tRAS, 320 tRFC and 65xxx tREFI. So for some reason tRAS lower then what the formula says it should be scales very well for my setup.
> 
> I did need a lot (1.56v BIOS 1.552v load) of DRAM voltage to get this stable but temps are fine. It should handle this just fine.
> 
> 4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T 32400 tREFI with all manual secondary / tertiary and manual RTL/IO as well. I'm not going to get it any better then this lol.
> Like, maybe, just maaaybe there's a tiny bit of room in tWRWR and tRDRD but.. not sure about that lol. Let's try
> 
> EDIT: Nope, lower tWRWR or tRDRD won't train at all. It goes to like 60/68/7/11 or something wierd like that. Have to call it a day here. I'm never going to find any more improvements in any timings compared to this.


Looks good :thumb:
Voltages look sweet to me


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Imprezzion said:


> Well, I just went deep into the 35ns latency range. And yes, 28 tRAS and 280 tRFC with a lower tREFI are WAY faster then 32 tRAS, 320 tRFC and 65xxx tREFI. So for some reason tRAS lower then what the formula says it should be scales very well for my setup.
> 
> I did need a lot (1.56v BIOS 1.552v load) of DRAM voltage to get this stable but temps are fine. It should handle this just fine.
> 
> 4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T 32400 tREFI with all manual secondary / tertiary and manual RTL/IO as well. I'm not going to get it any better then this lol.
> Like, maybe, just maaaybe there's a tiny bit of room in tWRWR and tRDRD but.. not sure about that lol. Let's try
> 
> EDIT: Nope, lower tWRWR or tRDRD won't train at all. It goes to like 60/68/7/11 or something wierd like that. Have to call it a day here. I'm never going to find any more improvements in any timings compared to this.



Grats on 35ns latency! welcome to the 35ns club . So much voltage headroom! Have you seen what 1.7v will get you?


----------



## Jpmboy

Imprezzion said:


> Well, I just went deep into the 35ns latency range. And yes, 28 tRAS and 280 tRFC with a lower tREFI are WAY faster then 32 tRAS, 320 tRFC and 65xxx tREFI. So for some reason tRAS lower then what the formula says it should be scales very well for my setup.
> 
> I did need a lot (1.56v BIOS 1.552v load) of DRAM voltage to get this stable but temps are fine. It should handle this just fine.
> 
> 4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T 32400 tREFI with all manual secondary / tertiary and manual RTL/IO as well. I'm not going to get it any better then this lol.
> Like, maybe, just maaaybe there's a tiny bit of room in tWRWR and tRDRD but.. not sure about that lol. Let's try
> EDIT: Nope, lower tWRWR or tRDRD won't train at all. It goes to like 60/68/7/11 or something wierd like that. Have to call it a day here. I'm never going to find any more improvements in any timings compared to this.


Recharge rate and recharge duration should "slide" together. :thumb:


----------



## dagan

I hate to be double posting but I got an issue with my current ram settings

Original Post: 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...st-says-1-error-memtest86-says-no-errors.html

In summary I'm having 0 memtest86 error, 

ram-test is hitting error within 3000 to 5000 coverage

and last night I ran gsat to find 6 hardware incident and 0 errors on 7 hour run

Ram is at XMP setting for the kit.

Any insight?

System:
i9 9900k - stock
AsRock Taichi Ultimate

Ram kits

F4-3600C15D-16GTZ x2 total of 32 gigs

I've tried running both

Tested both VCCIA at 1.15 VCCSA at 1.20
and
IA1.20, SA1.25

Thank you


----------



## ViTosS

Sometimes is really difficult to me understand RAM OC, I was testing [email protected], 320 tRFC, 65534 TREFI and 16 tWR, rest is on auto on mobo, so 1.44v DRAM and 1.21825v VCCIO/VCCSA, I had one single error after 350% coverage in MemTest, so my thoughts were to raise vDRAM or VCCIO/VCCSA, I choose raise VCCIO/VCCSA to the next closest step which is 1.22500v and this time I had the error quicker than before, so I went back to VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.21825v and raise vDRAM to 1.45v, had error at the same range of the test, so I get confused what should I raise if is VCCSA or VCCIO ou vDRAM, it seemed to me that [email protected] was totally possible but I can't get it stable, also can't get [email protected], I changed my Asus Maximus X Hero to this Apex XI and my RAM OC seems the same crap, can't get anything average, even [email protected] I have errors, maybe I should change TREFI or tRFC??? I don't know, all Apex XI did to me was being able to go over 4000Mhz and boot fine, which wasn't possible on Maximus X...


----------



## ViTosS

Also sometimes I increase the vDRAM and it seems worst than before, like I have errors to appear way longer with 1.45v than 1.50v for example, my sticks temps is never exceeding 40c during the stress


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Also sometimes I increase the vDRAM and it seems worst than before, like I have errors to appear way longer with 1.45v than 1.50v for example, my sticks temps is never exceeding 40c during the stress


Try the settings I have on the Gene. Most of them came from an Apex XI so they might work.
Use the latest BIOS.
You should be able to use lower voltages.
I am also using mode 2 trace centering enabled.
I sometimes train with 15 iol offset if 21 doesn't train and the others on auto and then modify to 21 offset after and manually input iols and rtls. I can tell you exactly how if you get that far.

Do you still have the 8700k? Not sure how much different the IMC is from the 9900k.
What model are the Gskill 3600cl16 ram sticks?


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Try the settings I have on the Gene. Most of them came from an Apex XI so they might work.
> Use the latest BIOS.
> You should be able to use lower voltages.
> I am also using mode 2 trace centering enabled.
> I sometimes train with 15 iol offset if 21 doesn't train and the others on auto and then modify to 21 offset after and manually input iols and rtls. I can tell you exactly how if you get that far.


Alright I will try exactly like yours, the only OC I tried that I'm stable is my old one from Maximus X Hero which is [email protected] with 320 tRFC, 65534 TREFI and 12 tWR, using 1.45v DRAM and 1.200v VCCIO/VCCSA, when do I know if I need to increase VCCIO or VCCSA? I normally always set the same voltage for both


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Alright I will try exactly like yours, the only OC I tried that I'm stable is my old one from Maximus X Hero which is [email protected] with 320 tRFC, 65534 TREFI and 12 tWR, using 1.45v DRAM and 1.200v VCCIO/VCCSA, when do I know if I need to increase VCCIO or VCCSA? I normally always set the same voltage for both


All those secondary and tertiary settings work on all my overclocks except primaries and rtls.
Normally vccio can be 0.1 to 0.05 lower than vccsa on my setup.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> All those secondary and tertiary settings work on all my overclocks except primaries and rtls.
> Normally vccio can be 0.1 to 0.05 lower than vccsa on my setup.


Well as soon as I fired MemTest had lot of errors using your settings, same voltages everything, also instead of first CL16 I've set to CL17 

Now I will try again my [email protected] VCCIO 1.21825 VCCSA 1.22500 at 1.440v DRAM but instead of tRFC 320 I set 360, if this doesn't work I really don't know what to do, seems more voltage is worst than lower voltage in my DRAM, at least at this 4200MhzCL17 OC tryout, can't understand this


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Well as soon as I fired MemTest had lot of errors using your settings, same voltages everything, also instead of first CL16 I've set to CL17
> 
> Now I will try again my [email protected] VCCIO 1.21825 VCCSA 1.22500 at 1.440v DRAM but instead of tRFC 320 I set 360, if this doesn't work I really don't know what to do, seems more voltage is worst than lower voltage in my DRAM, at least at this 4200MhzCL17 OC tryout, can't understand this


At least you got it to train :thumb:
Now you need to run TM5 and use Asus TurboV Core to adjust the voltages on the fly while the test is running to find the optimum for Vdimm, vccio and vccsa otherwise they can cause errors. It's different for each overclock and different hardware. Too high or too low can easily cause errors


----------



## Imprezzion

On a 9900K on stock cache and core you shouldn't need any more then 1.25v SA and 1.20v IO to get up to 4200Mhz really. Also, DRAM at 1.45v is fine, 4400+ kits come default at 1.45v XMP so.

I think tRFC 320 with tREFI that high is causing your issues honestly.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> On a 9900K on stock cache and core you shouldn't need any more then 1.25v SA and 1.20v IO to get up to 4200Mhz really. Also, DRAM at 1.45v is fine, 4400+ kits come default at 1.45v XMP so.
> 
> I think tRFC 320 with tREFI that high is causing your issues honestly.


8700k is listed in the rig builder unless it was updated with the motherboard?
ViTosS is running 360 tRFC now but yeah stock x2 tREFI might be an idea for now 
Looks like the makings of a good ram overclocker IMO.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> At least you got it to train :thumb:
> Now you need to run TM5 and use Asus TurboV Core to adjust the voltages on the fly while the test is running to find the optimum for Vdimm, vccio and vccsa otherwise they can cause errors. It's different for each overclock and different hardware. Too high or too low can easily cause errors


I see, thank you for the help, the problem is that the error I get is always 200%+ coverage in HCI MemTest, it's at least 2h running it, so if I change the vdimm I would have to wait a lot to know if it made effect...


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> On a 9900K on stock cache and core you shouldn't need any more then 1.25v SA and 1.20v IO to get up to 4200Mhz really. Also, DRAM at 1.45v is fine, 4400+ kits come default at 1.45v XMP so.
> 
> I think tRFC 320 with tREFI that high is causing your issues honestly.


I see, what you suggest for tREFI? My tRFC is at 360 now



munternet said:


> 8700k is listed in the rig builder unless it was updated with the motherboard?
> OP is running 360 tRFC now but yeah stock x2 tREFI might be an idea for now
> Looks like the makings of a good ram overclocker IMO.


What does that mean stock x2 tREFI? And yes I'm running an 8700k and Apex XI, need to update sig


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> I see, what you suggest for tREFI? My tRFC is at 360 now
> 
> 
> 
> What does that mean stock x2 tREFI? And yes I'm running an 8700k and Apex XI, need to update sig


See what tREFI trains at on auto and double it.
I have a feeling your voltages may not be optimized. If you lower them till they error a little in TestMem5 then raise them. vccio will likely crash so take a pic on your phone after each change in Asus TurboV Core. Don't run TM5 too long while producing errors!
raise:
dram v about 0.02v
vccio about 0.05v
vccsa about 0.05v

Edit: What model are the ram sticks?


----------



## satinghostrider

ViTosS said:


> Imprezzion said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a 9900K on stock cache and core you shouldn't need any more then 1.25v SA and 1.20v IO to get up to 4200Mhz really. Also, DRAM at 1.45v is fine, 4400+ kits come default at 1.45v XMP so.
> 
> I think tRFC 320 with tREFI that high is causing your issues honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> I see, what you suggest for tREFI? My tRFC is at 360 now
> 
> 
> 
> munternet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8700k is listed in the rig builder unless it was updated with the motherboard?
> OP is running 360 tRFC now but yeah stock x2 tREFI might be an idea for now /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Looks like the makings of a good ram overclocker IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that mean stock x2 tREFI? And yes I'm running an 8700k and Apex XI, need to update sig
Click to expand...

Try running the trfc on auto and trefi on auto first to see if your memory tests pass. If they do, change trfc to 374 for a start while keeping trefi on auto. Take note of your stock trefi is set as well. If they pass, set trefi to 2x of what the stock setting is. Try memory test again.

I can tell you that I took the longest time to identify crashes in Battlefront 2 when my trfc was 310 and trefi was maxed out. When I set my trfc to 374 and trefi to 2x which was around 30xxx, I stopped having these crashes. Sometimes the memory just hates running low trfc and maxed out trefi irrespective of voltage and it doesn't help that increasing sa/io sometimes is worse for stability.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> ViTosS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, what you suggest for tREFI? My tRFC is at 360 now
> 
> 
> 
> What does that mean stock x2 tREFI? And yes I'm running an 8700k and Apex XI, need to update sig
> 
> 
> 
> See what tREFI trains at on auto and double it.
> I have a feeling your voltages may not be optimized. If you lower them till they error a little in TestMem5 then raise them. vccio will likely crash so take a pic on your phone after each change in Asus TurboV Core. Don't run TM5 too long while producing errors!
> raise:
> dram v about 0.02v
> vccio about 0.05v
> vccsa about 0.05v
> 
> Edit: What model are the ram sticks?
Click to expand...

Alright I will do that and download TM5, I am using HCI MemTest Pro atm to run my tests, will report back when I finish everything, my RAM sticks are G.Skill TridentZ RGB [email protected] Samsung BDie Single Rank 2x8GB, at stock XMP they are 1.35v. Also should I focus on real voltage measurement showed in HWiNFO64 or BIOS? For 1.45v DRAM to bem showed in HWiNFO64 I have to set 1.430v instead of 1.450v in BIOS, same thing for VCCIO and VCCSA.



satinghostrider said:


> ViTosS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imprezzion said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a 9900K on stock cache and core you shouldn't need any more then 1.25v SA and 1.20v IO to get up to 4200Mhz really. Also, DRAM at 1.45v is fine, 4400+ kits come default at 1.45v XMP so.
> 
> I think tRFC 320 with tREFI that high is causing your issues honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> I see, what you suggest for tREFI? My tRFC is at 360 now
> 
> 
> 
> munternet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8700k is listed in the rig builder unless it was updated with the motherboard?
> OP is running 360 tRFC now but yeah stock x2 tREFI might be an idea for now /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Looks like the makings of a good ram overclocker IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that mean stock x2 tREFI? And yes I'm running an 8700k and Apex XI, need to update sig
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try running the trfc on auto and trefi on auto first to see if your memory tests pass. If they do, change trfc to 374 for a start while keeping trefi on auto. Take note of your stock trefi is set as well. If they pass, set trefi to 2x of what the stock setting is. Try memory test again.
> 
> I can tell you that I took the longest time to identify crashes in Battlefront 2 when my trfc was 310 and trefi was maxed out. When I set my trfc to 374 and trefi to 2x which was around 30xxx, I stopped having these crashes. Sometimes the memory just hates running low trfc and maxed out trefi irrespective of voltage and it doesn't help that increasing sa/io sometimes is worse for stability.
Click to expand...

Ok good idea to do that, one setting at a time and take note


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Alright I will do that and download TM5, I am using HCI MemTest Pro atm to run my tests, will report back when I finish everything, my RAM sticks are G.Skill TridentZ RGB [email protected] Samsung BDie Single Rank 2x8GB, at stock XMP they are 1.35v. Also should I focus on real voltage measurement showed in HWiNFO64 or BIOS? For 1.45v DRAM to bem showed in HWiNFO64 I have to set 1.430v instead of 1.450v in BIOS, same thing for VCCIO and VCCSA.


 @Gen. posted a link for downloading TM5 with the Extreme1 config file a few pages back or it can be found on the github memory guide in my sig.
I just look at the voltages in the BIOS or Asus TurboV Core. My voltages don't like to go super high for stability reasons so I don't stress about raising too much.
I'm pretty sure the Apex doesn't need excessive vccio and vccsa either 
Don't be concerned about high vdimm as long as the ram temps aren't silly high.


----------



## Worldwin

For TM5 I get this error: << Thread Error Handler >>
States:7
Core number: 7
Exception code: C0000005H
Exception Addr:10001853h
0F 29 07 0F 29 4F 10 0F 29 57
This occurs upon launch.Also i believe due to this error it goes straight to test 4 upon launching. I think I will stick to HCl until I figure this out.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> @Gen. posted a link for downloading TM5 with the Extreme1 config file a few pages back or it can be found on the github memory guide in my sig.
> I just look at the voltages in the BIOS or Asus TurboV Core. My voltages don't like to go super high for stability reasons so I don't stress about raising too much.
> I'm pretty sure the Apex doesn't need excessive vccio and vccsa either
> Don't be concerned about high vdimm as long as the ram temps aren't silly high.


Well I'm actually really suprised how low I manage to have stability for vDIM, VCCIO and VCCSA at [email protected]

1.380v DRAM
1.000v VCCIO
1.150v VCCSA

tRFC and tREFI on AUTO

I did like you suggested, I reduced the minimum I could before I get errors in HCI MemTest Pro


----------



## ViTosS

Now I just have to know when I try again if I need to raise vDIMM, VCCIO or VCCSA, if I pretend to lower my tRFC and tREFI, that's the hardest part, dealing with 3 different voltages


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Now I just have to know when I try again if I need to raise vDIMM, VCCIO or VCCSA, if I pretend to lower my tRFC and tREFI, that's the hardest part, dealing with 3 different voltages


Try to hit the error point on each then raise

dram v about 0.02v
vccio about 0.05v
vccsa about 0.05v

I think that will be close. I would be surprised if you can't get 4400MHz running fine but I guess it is a lottery


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah well that's why I run 32400 tREFI (pretty much x2 "auto" rounded off) for 280 tRFC. Me only running 2 DIMM's seems to allow me to run a very low tRFC like 280 pretty easily but it isn't stable on 65xxx as it will not necessarily error in HCI as that's a consistent load but bursty stuff like benches aren't always stable and sometimes give a memory_management BSOD and especially Windows sleep and such get corrupted and won't properly resume with loads of cannot read memory state errors.

It's fine on 65xxx on 320+ tRFC but this is generally slower then 280 with higher tREFI.

I have to say, I got the feeling I got quite lucky with my DIMM's.

They are only retail and totally un-binned 3600CL16 Corsair Vengeance RGB's (the first gens) with B-Die's and even tho they won't do any record breaking primary timings on 4000-4200-4400 they can do seriously low secondaries and tRAS + tRFC without getting unstable at all. I mean, 12 tWR + 14 tCWL and even the tRTP + tCKE is pretty impressive for this low of a bin at 4200 16-17-17.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Try to hit the error point on each then raise
> 
> dram v about 0.02v
> vccio about 0.05v
> vccsa about 0.05v
> 
> I think that will be close. I would be surprised if you can't get 4400MHz running fine but I guess it is a lottery


Alright so I will first double tREFI and check stability, if I get error the problem I said is to know when the error will stop when I raise things, I mean I can raise vDRAM a portion and error doesn't stop, so I raise VCCIO and error doesn't stop, I would guess the problem is VCCSA, but then I raise VCCSAA there is no error anymore but how would I know if I could actually lower the previous two I raised (vDRAM and VCCIO) without getting errors and the problem was just the VCCSA?


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah well that's why I run 32400 tREFI (pretty much x2 "auto" rounded off) for 280 tRFC. Me only running 2 DIMM's seems to allow me to run a very low tRFC like 280 pretty easily but it isn't stable on 65xxx as it will not necessarily error in HCI as that's a consistent load but bursty stuff like benches aren't always stable and sometimes give a memory_management BSOD and especially Windows sleep and such get corrupted and won't properly resume with loads of cannot read memory state errors.
> 
> It's fine on 65xxx on 320+ tRFC but this is generally slower then 280 with higher tREFI.
> 
> I have to say, I got the feeling I got quite lucky with my DIMM's.
> 
> They are only retail and totally un-binned 3600CL16 Corsair Vengeance RGB's (the first gens) with B-Die's and even tho they won't do any record breaking primary timings on 4000-4200-4400 they can do seriously low secondaries and tRAS + tRFC without getting unstable at all. I mean, 12 tWR + 14 tCWL and even the tRTP + tCKE is pretty impressive for this low of a bin at 4200 16-17-17.


To be honest I don't mind much about the timings, I care much more about the Aida64 latency, I saw that you have 35.8ns that is quite impressive, I can't reach nowhere that, with 36ns I would be pretty happy


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> To be honest I don't mind much about the timings, I care much more about the Aida64 latency, I saw that you have 35.8ns that is quite impressive, I can't reach nowhere that, with 36ns I would be pretty happy


Seriously, I would be surprised if you can't get very low latency with your hardware.
If that's what you want maybe try 1T and see how high you can go.
I think you need to experiment for a while and get familiar with the new board.
Congrats on getting the voltages down so low :thumb:


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Seriously, I would be surprised if you can't get very low latency with your hardware.
> If that's what you want maybe try 1T and see how high you can go.
> I think you need to experiment for a while and get familiar with the new board.
> Congrats on getting the voltages down so low :thumb:


Thanks man, but yeah not everything are flowers, I tried so hard 4200Mhz CL16-16-16-36 all the possible settings I could using tRFC and tREFI AUTO and always had errors, I guess it's time to work on [email protected] back again


----------



## bp7178

Worldwin said:


> For TM5 I get this error: << Thread Error Handler >>
> States:7
> Core number: 7
> Exception code: C0000005H
> Exception Addr:10001853h
> 0F 29 07 0F 29 4F 10 0F 29 57
> This occurs upon launch.Also i believe due to this error it goes straight to test 4 upon launching. I think I will stick to HCl until I figure this out.


"If you experience issues with all threads crashing upon launch with the extreme config it might help to edit the row "Testing Window Size (Mb)=1408". Replace the window size with your total RAM (minus some margin for Windows) divided by your processors available threads (e.g. 12800/16 = 800 MB per thread)."

From https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Thanks man, but yeah not everything are flowers, I tried so hard 4200Mhz CL16-16-16-36 all the possible settings I could using tRFC and tREFI AUTO and always had errors, I guess it's time to work on [email protected] back again


Could also try [email protected] and 1T might yield some good latency results 
Post a timing configurator shot once you find some settings you like.
Edit: Just checking your CPU overclock is solid?


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Could also try [email protected] and 1T might yield some good latency results
> Post a timing configurator shot once you find some settings you like.


Well how crazy is my bin of whatever it is CPU IMC or RAM itself, but I'm right now [email protected] 1.380v vDIMM, 1.00v VCCIO and 1.15 VCCSA, didn't change a thing from my previous lowest voltage settings, and I've set now 32774 tREFI (double default), 12 tWR from 16 and also 280 tRFC from AUTO and almost sure I'm completely stable, seems the secret is lowest voltage possible for everything hahaha, I will let it running 8h when I go sleep but it's looking promising

CPU OC is solid through 8h of Realbench, but I will also let Aida64 running with FPU, Cache and RAM everything marked to stress when I finish my RAM OC, I don't like to run Prime95 it heats way more my CPU than these 2 stress testers


----------



## ViTosS

I tried 1T [email protected] one time and didn't even boot


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Well how crazy is my bin of whatever it is CPU IMC or RAM itself, but I'm right now [email protected] 1.380v vDIMM, 1.00v VCCIO and 1.15 VCCSA, didn't change a thing from my previous lowest voltage settings, and I've set now 32774 tREFI (double default), 12 tWR from 16 and also 280 tRFC from AUTO and almost sure I'm completely stable, seems the secret is lowest voltage possible for everything hahaha, I will let it running 8h when I go sleep but it's looking promising
> 
> CPU OC is solid through 8h of Realbench, but I will also let Aida64 running with FPU, Cache and RAM everything marked to stress when I finish my RAM OC, I don't like to run Prime95 it heats way more my CPU than these 2 stress testers


You see a lot of Apex owners running low io and sa. I think a lot has to do with the motherboard itself.
You'll be an expert in no time :thumb:


----------



## Worldwin

bp7178 said:


> "If you experience issues with all threads crashing upon launch with the extreme config it might help to edit the row "Testing Window Size (Mb)=1408". Replace the window size with your total RAM (minus some margin for Windows) divided by your processors available threads (e.g. 12800/16 = 800 MB per thread)."
> 
> From https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md


First thing I tried. Looking up ""testmem5" thread error handler" on Google brings up some results in other languages not English. No results are useful.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> To be honest I don't mind much about the timings, I care much more about the Aida64 latency, I saw that you have 35.8ns that is quite impressive, I can't reach nowhere that, with 36ns I would be pretty happy


I just ran a 4000-15-15-15-34-1T up the flag-pole to see what the latency would be and it looks pretty decent @ 34.5ns
You should be able to boot this with an Apex XI
I'm fairly sure we could get you somewhere close to this


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> I just ran a 4000-15-15-15-34-1T up the flag-pole to see what the latency would be and it looks pretty decent @ 34.5ns
> You should be able to boot this with an Apex XI
> I'm fairly sure we could get you somewhere close to this


What other settings do you have for this?

Every time I've tried to boot with 1T on my Apex XI it doesn't fly...

Maybe I'm just not giving it enough voltage, I have it set at 4133 16-16-16-36 right now but my Aida scores are a tad lower than that, and I'm around 38ns latency...

I'd be happy if I could hit 1T at 4000....


----------



## ViTosS

Well I guess it's official, I have the worst memory RAM/IMC bin in this thread with an Apex XI, couldn't hit even [email protected] stable using tRFC 360 and tREFI 32774 and tWR 16, through HCI MemTest Pro was looking promising, it had to run for 2h to give the first error, but through MT5 I get errors always at the same 25-30min range, tried increasing voltage, VCCIO, VCCSA and didn't make the error go away

Edit.: Also I can't boot [email protected] 1T


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> What other settings do you have for this?
> 
> Every time I've tried to boot with 1T on my Apex XI it doesn't fly...
> 
> Maybe I'm just not giving it enough voltage, I have it set at 4133 16-16-16-36 right now but my Aida scores are a tad lower than that, and I'm around 38ns latency...
> 
> I'd be happy if I could hit 1T at 4000....


For me it needs to be on mode 2 with trace centering enabled. Sometimes for training I'll set iol offset to 15 and go back into the bios and set manually.
I showed my voltages which are probably more than the Apex will need.
Show a timing configurator to see where it can be improved. Some settings seem best NOT lowered so that others may flourish  @Gen. has had some good results with the Apex and might be able to help out


----------



## {EAC} Shoot em UP

Well, coming back after a week or so of not posting at all.... I am seemingly stable at only 1.37v... I suppose I should just keep dropping it down till I am not stable anymore. Crazy that its able to run so low.... Maybe I was only ~.01-.02 away from a higher speed. Who knows. really don't feel like testing a bunch more to find out.


----------



## ogider

DDR4 2x16GB f4-3200c14d-32GTZ @ 4300MHz 16-16-16 29-295-CR2
10900k 5GHz/4.8GHz
MSI z490 Unify



DDR4V 1.52V. SA 1.37 / IO 1.35

I have active cooling for my modules. During long memtest or gsat max temp was 43-44c. But my next step is to try find low possible voltage for this timings setting.

Cant put Asrock Timing configuration. I have this message. 



All timings by hand.
Was fighting hard to drop latency bellow 40 on this board. Maybe later MSI will release a bios that will improve latency.
Also CR1 is big problem for this mainboard/bios version. 

Wont boot even at 3200MHz. And this kit did 3700MHz cl 14-14-14 on z370.


----------



## Falkentyne

ogider said:


> DDR4 2x16GB f4-3200c14d-32GTZ @ 4300MHz 16-16-16 29-295-CR2
> 10900k 5GHz/4.8GHz
> MSI z490 Unify
> 
> 
> 
> DDR4V 1.52V. SA 1.37 / IO 1.35
> 
> I have active cooling for my modules. During long memtest or gsat max temp was 43-44c. But my next step is to try find low possible voltage for this timings setting.
> 
> Cant put Asrock Timing configuration. I have this message.
> 
> 
> 
> All timings by hand.
> Was fighting hard to drop latency bellow 40 on this board. Maybe later MSI will release a bios that will improve latency.
> Also CR1 is big problem for this mainboard/bios version.
> 
> Wont boot even at 3200MHz. And this kit did 3700MHz cl 14-14-14 on z370.


Use asrock 4.0.3, not 4.0.4. Can you post your timings for us with 4.0.3 ? Thank you!


----------



## ogider

Falkentyne said:


> Use asrock 4.0.3, not 4.0.4. Can you post your timings for us with 4.0.3 ? Thank you!


Working. But no info about dimm.Also I had to tweak some from Advanced Timing Configuration .
like tXP / tXPDLL


----------



## Falkentyne

ogider said:


> Working. But no info about dimm.Also I had to tweak some from Advanced Timing Configuration .
> like tXP / tXPDLL


Can you tell me exactly which timings there you tweaked?

I think I have the exact same RAM (Gkill 2x16GB 32GTZR), 3200 mhz CL 14-14-14-34 dual rank b-die, RGB though, so I'd like to try to push it too.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> Working. But no info about dimm.Also I had to tweak some from Advanced Timing Configuration .
> like tXP / tXPDLL


Can you do tRDRD and tWRWR = 6 & 4 (SG&DG)?


----------



## ogider

Falkentyne said:


> Can you tell me exactly which timings there you tweaked?
> 
> I think I have the exact same RAM (Gkill 2x16GB 32GTZR), 3200 mhz CL 14-14-14-34 dual rank b-die, RGB though, so I'd like to try to push it too.


tXP was 15 changed to 6
tXPDLL was 51 changed to 21

these two had in my case impact for latency. I did not notice any improvement with the rest.

better keep in mind that just loosening because I can ... can reduce performance.




OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Can you do tRDRD and tWRWR = 6 & 4 (SG&DG)?


Gonna try later.


----------



## ogider

OLDFATSHEEP
Ad1 No post or bad rtl training for both.

Falkentyne
one more "timing" this one is very nasty...bios fine and training but can crash on load or just after
tAONPD=20 I had and now Im testing 18. noticable drop in latency (aida 38.2) but need to run gsat 1 hour at last.


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> For me it needs to be on mode 2 with trace centering enabled. Sometimes for training I'll set iol offset to 15 and go back into the bios and set manually.
> I showed my voltages which are probably more than the Apex will need.
> Show a timing configurator to see where it can be improved. Some settings seem best NOT lowered so that others may flourish
> @Gen. has had some good results with the Apex and might be able to help out


Here's where I'm at so far... I feel like it's almost there....

Every time I've tried mode 2 my write and copy speeds get cut in half...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> OLDFATSHEEP
> Ad1 No post or bad rtl training for both.
> 
> Falkentyne
> one more "timing" this one is very nasty...bios fine and training but can crash on load or just after
> tAONPD=20 I had and now Im testing 18. noticable drop in latency (aida 38.2) but need to run gsat 1 hour at last.


That's far better than mine. On my Godlike define any 2nd/3rd timings won't boot 4700, but leave them auto will POST.


----------



## Falkentyne

ogider said:


> OLDFATSHEEP
> Ad1 No post or bad rtl training for both.
> 
> Falkentyne
> one more "timing" this one is very nasty...bios fine and training but can crash on load or just after
> tAONPD=20 I had and now Im testing 18. noticable drop in latency (aida 38.2) but need to run gsat 1 hour at last.


Waiting for your results. I'm afraid of memory overclocking...don't want to corrupt windows just trying to boot it. (yes I'm fully aware of usb flash drives and Linux but that Linux stuff confuses the hell out of me and with a swollen back,it's hard for me to deal with)


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Aorus Z390 Ultra
i7 9700K
2x8 Team Dark Pro 3200 CL14 in slots 2&4 running at 4000 mhz 16-18-18-38 CR2 1.45V

I've been trying to see if I can get 4000 mhz stable with the command rate at 1, but the settings in BIOS just won't take. It boots up fine, but ASRock Timing Configurator, CPU-Z, and HWInfo still read my command rate as 2.

I'm at a loss of what to do.


----------



## ogider

Falkentyne said:


> Waiting for your results. I'm afraid of memory overclocking...don't want to corrupt windows just trying to boot it. (yes I'm fully aware of usb flash drives and Linux but that Linux stuff confuses the hell out of me and with a swollen back,it's hard for me to deal with)


Gsat 1 hour 0 errors and 200% mem test as well.

Still latency is moderate at best..but at last I left 40 area


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> Here's where I'm at so far... I feel like it's almost there....
> 
> Every time I've tried mode 2 my write and copy speeds get cut in half...


You are on CR2. I was talking CR1 
Either way you need to get tRDRD_sg = 6 and TWRWR_sg = 6
Lower tRDWR sg & dg as low as possible. They will usually be stable if they boot but can be easily lowered later without changing anything else except maybe voltages
tCWL is 0-3 lower than tCL (you have 16 try 14)
Copy all my secondaries exactly for now and see if it trains. It's not always about getting them as low as possible

With your current RTLs and IOLs they can be set to:
57-59-7-7 medium
57-58-7-6
56-58-6-6 tight

RTLs can't be more than 2 apart

You see the pattern 
IOL offset (21) + IOL <= 28
and subtract the same amount from the corresponding RTL that you subtracted from the IOL to meet the above requirements


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> Gsat 1 hour 0 errors and 200% mem test as well.
> 
> Still latency is moderate at best..but at last I left 40 area


It seems like a speed with 4DIMM?

Latency is very good for MSI Z490. Here's the data from Godlike with 2DIMM. Still cannot shrink the 2nd/3rd timings. Thus they were left AUTO.


----------



## ogider

2x16GB set. 2 dimms

I have in closet 2x8 b-die . Was tempting to see how high in freq. they can go with z490 but to mutch work.
70k read write is very impressive


----------



## opt33

yep, 70k read write is nice! My gigabyte z390 master wouldnt post with anything near 4800, not sure if I have seen 4400 stable on my mobo.

For 24/7 it is 4000 with tighter timings on this mobo.


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> You are on CR2. I was talking CR1
> Either way you need to get tRDRD_sg = 6 and TWRWR_sg = 6
> Lower tRDWR sg & dg as low as possible. They will usually be stable if they boot but can be easily lowered later without changing anything else except maybe voltages
> tCWL is 0-3 lower than tCL (you have 16 try 14)
> Copy all my secondaries exactly for now and see if it trains. It's not always about getting them as low as possible
> 
> With your current RTLs and IOLs they can be set to:
> 57-59-7-7 medium
> 57-58-7-6
> 56-58-6-6 tight
> 
> RTLs can't be more than 2 apart
> 
> You see the pattern
> IOL offset (21) + IOL <= 28
> and subtract the same amount from the corresponding RTL that you subtracted from the IOL to meet the above requirements




Trying to figure out how to adjust the RTL / IOL stuff.... There's so many of them, and they all differ a bit... Do I just change all the CHA ones to 57 and CHB to 59?

There's more in the BIOS than what the timing configurator shows.......

Appreciate the help!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

opt33 said:


> yep, 70k read write is nice! My gigabyte z390 master wouldnt post with anything near 4800, not sure if I have seen 4400 stable on my mobo.
> 
> For 24/7 it is 4000 with tighter timings on this mobo.


Its T-Top, you might need 4 sticks to hit higher freq


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> 2x16GB set. 2 dimms
> 
> I have in closet 2x8 b-die . Was tempting to see how high in freq. they can go with z490 but to mutch work.
> 70k read write is very impressive


2x16GB 2DIMM 4300C16 flat is a fairly good result 

I haven't figure out how to stablize 2x8GB 4800 for daily use on Z490 Godlike, but on my Gene XI 4800 17-17-35 is daily useable. VDIMM=1.57 IO=1.35 SA=1.54.


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> Trying to figure out how to adjust the RTL / IOL stuff.... There's so many of them, and they all differ a bit... Do I just change all the CHA ones to 57 and CHB to 59?
> 
> There's more in the BIOS than what the timing configurator shows.......
> 
> Appreciate the help!


I zeroed out all the ones I don't use to stop me getting confused. Some are for 4 dimm boards only. They say it's bad practice but it seems to work


----------



## andrvas

Tried posting in the motherboard section, but no replies: Anyone running a Maximus X Hero with all four DIMM slots populated at 4000Mhz+ speeds, stable? I'm thinking of upgrading my 2666MHz RAM (I have a 9900K).


----------



## ttnuagmada

I tried the 4000 4x8 b-die preset timings in the MXIIF BIOS on my Team Dark Pro 3200 14-14-14 kit, and it boots and is stable, but somethings off with my write/copy speed. Anybody got any ideas on what to adjust here?


----------



## munternet

andrvas said:


> Tried posting in the motherboard section, but no replies: Anyone running a Maximus X Hero with all four DIMM slots populated at 4000Mhz+ speeds, stable? I'm thinking of upgrading my 2666MHz RAM (I have a 9900K).


I was running one. 4000cl15 is usually doable


----------



## opt33

ttnuagmada said:


> I tried the 4000 4x8 b-die preset timings in the MXIIF BIOS on my Team Dark Pro 3200 14-14-14 kit, and it boots and is stable, but somethings off with my write/copy speed. Anybody got any ideas on what to adjust here?


I have had that happen a few times on my z390 gigabyte master when I set secondary timings off/too low then ? training goes awry then seems almost like a bug. To clear it I have had to reset all my secondary timings to auto, reboot, then goes back to normal, then put secondary timings back except tWTR settings. then try something different for tWTR. 

I can bug mine out on purpose by setting tWTR too low, like pic:


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ttnuagmada said:


> I tried the 4000 4x8 b-die preset timings in the MXIIF BIOS on my Team Dark Pro 3200 14-14-14 kit, and it boots and is stable, but somethings off with my write/copy speed. Anybody got any ideas on what to adjust here?


Try to fix tWRWR_dg to 4.


----------



## The Pook

kind of an OT question since the thread mostly evolved into DDR4 OCing, but is MemTest86 not viable to stress RAM effectively nowadays? 

Been pulling out my hair over my NUC, when booted into the OS it likes to BSOD making RamTest/GSAT basically impossible but MemTest86 isn't showing errors. I only ran test 5 and 8 (they used to be the go to tests back in the day) and I'm going though all the tests now but I'm not expecting it to find anything.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

The Pook said:


> kind of an OT question since the thread mostly evolved into DDR4 OCing, but is MemTest86 not viable to stress RAM effectively nowadays?
> 
> Been pulling out my hair over my NUC, when booted into the OS it likes to BSOD making RamTest/GSAT basically impossible but MemTest86 isn't showing errors. I only ran test 5 and 8 (they used to be the go to tests back in the day) and I'm going though all the tests now but I'm not expecting it to find anything.


You might also need to stress the memory controller. Personally I regard AIDA64 "stress system memory" as a good test for the IMC. If the IMC fails you need to increase the SA volt.


----------



## The Pook

can't set SA voltage on a NUC in the BIOS and fairly certain you can't in XTU either. It's not the unlocked OC-friendly Hades Canyon NUC, it's the i3 8109U super locked down NUC.

regardless I can't imagine SA voltage being set wrong seeing as it's DDR4-2400 and it's on the QVL.


----------



## ttnuagmada

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try to fix tWRWR_dg to 4.


That was it!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Just tried few tweaks on the 2x16GB Micron. Cant shrink 1st timing any more.

VDIMM=1.5 IO=1.35 SA=1.4. Should be stable enough for 24/7 use.


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> kind of an OT question since the thread mostly evolved into DDR4 OCing, but is MemTest86 not viable to stress RAM effectively nowadays?
> 
> Been pulling out my hair over my NUC, when booted into the OS it likes to BSOD making RamTest/GSAT basically impossible but MemTest86 isn't showing errors. I only ran test 5 and 8 (they used to be the go to tests back in the day) and I'm going though all the tests now but I'm not expecting it to find anything.


Test 6 was the one I used on memtest86 suggested on an old memory overclocking tutorial somewhere around here.
What about GSAT from a USB stick?
https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...application-test-tiny-bootable-linux-iso.html


----------



## The Pook

managed to get it to boot into Windows and run RAM Test for ~3 hours and it didn't have any issues, stopped the test and hopped in the shower and when I got back it was hung on a BSOD. Fairly certain the RAM isn't the problem 

starting to think it's just a crap binned CPU or a too un-aggressive (dunno what word I'm looking for lol) voltage set by Intel in the power P-States. Runs fine @ 100% load when drawing 40w but when it's idle drawing ~5w and is getting 0.6v is when it seems to BSOD.


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> managed to get it to boot into Windows and run RAM Test for ~3 hours and it didn't have any issues, stopped the test and hopped in the shower and when I got back it was hung on a BSOD. Fairly certain the RAM isn't the problem
> 
> starting to think it's just a crap binned CPU or a too un-aggressive (dunno what word I'm looking for lol) voltage set by Intel in the power P-States. Runs fine @ 100% load when drawing 40w but when it's idle drawing ~5w and is getting 0.6v is when it seems to BSOD.


Yeah I kinda have that issue on my 9900K as well.. if I run 5.0Ghz core 4.7Ghz cache @ +0.020 offset and leave power saving enabled it BSOD's and acts generally funny all over the place but just using Windows power plan to set CPU Min to 100% so that it stays at 5.0Ghz it's fine. Runs for days without rebooting or any funny business. 

If I run 5.1Ghz core 4.8Ghz cache on +0.090 it's fine even with power saving as the higher offset corrects the problem lol. 

To get back OT, I am happy with my current RAM OC but I just wanted to see if I could get 1T to work somehow on this board/CPU/ram combination. Simple answer? No. Not a chance.

I tried everything from insane voltages to different RAM slots to 4Ghz underclocked cache and CPU and whatever else I could come up with but no. This combination will not in any way POST 1T past 3200Mhz.

It's a hard wall as well like, 3200-12-12-12-28-280-1T @ 1.55v is fine but 3333/3400/3600 at any timings, even like 19-19-19-47-500-1T, will not POST. No errors, no training issues, just a hard no POST and OC failed recovery.

This board is amazing in terms of BIOS and general ability to run serious overclocks but lacks some basic features like AC/DC LLC settings or trace centering for the RAM which it just doesn't have at all.

Is there any trick / setting / voltage that I can use just to at least give me a chance to find the 1T maximum for my RAM? I mean, I'm curious how low of a primary timing set I can get away with on 3200 1T but that's not B-Die's strong point. There's no way they will ever beat my Hynix "BFR" 3000 kit at 3000 10-11-10-28-400-1T lol.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah I kinda have that issue on my 9900K as well.. if I run 5.0Ghz core 4.7Ghz cache @ +0.020 offset and leave power saving enabled it BSOD's and acts generally funny all over the place but just using Windows power plan to set CPU Min to 100% so that it stays at 5.0Ghz it's fine. Runs for days without rebooting or any funny business.
> 
> If I run 5.1Ghz core 4.8Ghz cache on +0.090 it's fine even with power saving as the higher offset corrects the problem lol.
> 
> To get back OT, I am happy with my current RAM OC but I just wanted to see if I could get 1T to work somehow on this board/CPU/ram combination. Simple answer? No. Not a chance.
> 
> I tried everything from insane voltages to different RAM slots to 4Ghz underclocked cache and CPU and whatever else I could come up with but no. This combination will not in any way POST 1T past 3200Mhz.
> 
> It's a hard wall as well like, 3200-12-12-12-28-280-1T @ 1.55v is fine but 3333/3400/3600 at any timings, even like 19-19-19-47-500-1T, will not POST. No errors, no training issues, just a hard no POST and OC failed recovery.
> 
> This board is amazing in terms of BIOS and general ability to run serious overclocks but lacks some basic features like AC/DC LLC settings or trace centering for the RAM which it just doesn't have at all.
> 
> Is there any trick / setting / voltage that I can use just to at least give me a chance to find the 1T maximum for my RAM? I mean, I'm curious how low of a primary timing set I can get away with on 3200 1T but that's not B-Die's strong point. There's no way they will ever beat my Hynix "BFR" 3000 kit at 3000 10-11-10-28-400-1T lol.


Here is a direct compare to give you an idea what to try for RTLs.
Tell me what other ones you want me to post. Who knows, it might just work 
There is a difference of 9 in the RTLs so not many numbers to try. Just set the IOL offsets and IOLs and add to your 3200-12-1T.
Can you post you current 1T configurator and tell me what you want to try?


----------



## reflex75

ogider said:


> Falkentyne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for your results. I'm afraid of memory overclocking...don't want to corrupt windows just trying to boot it. (yes I'm fully aware of usb flash drives and Linux but that Linux stuff confuses the hell out of me and with a swollen back,it's hard for me to deal with)
> 
> 
> 
> Gsat 1 hour 0 errors and 200% mem test as well.
> 
> Still latency is moderate at best..but at last I left 40 area
Click to expand...

Key factor for RAM stability is temperature, not test duration. 
I can make all your systems crash in few minutes just by rising temperature to 55-60°c.
You are so far from JEDEC target stability at 85°c for DDR4...


----------



## ogider

reflex75 said:


> Key factor for RAM stability is temperature, not test duration.
> I can make all your systems crash in few minutes just by rising temperature to 55-60°c.
> You are so far from JEDEC target stability at 85°c for DDR4...


Idd. summer is coming and +10c to ambient temps 

Anyway I have add extra cooler above ddr4. 44c during stress isnt bad. This modules on my old system had 54c temps and still no errors bc of temp.So I have some "free room"


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Here is a direct compare to give you an idea what to try for RTLs.
> Tell me what other ones you want me to post. Who knows, it might just work
> There is a difference of 9 in the RTLs so not many numbers to try. Just set the IOL offsets and IOLs and add to your 3200-12-1T.
> Can you post you current 1T configurator and tell me what you want to try?


Yeah coming up. I'm not at my PC now so. 

What I wanna try is very simple, I see plenty of people, mostly with ASUS boards, posting here with 4000 CL16 1T or even higher. 

I know it's probably the lack of trace centering in my BIOS / board that doesn't allow me to do 1T but still.. If I can get away with 4000 CL16 1T or 4200 CL17 1T that should be faster then 4200 CL16 2T.

EDIT: I couldn't get 3200 CL12 1T to properly train. If it did POST at all it would be all over the place like 54/61/6/11 and such. Even with manuals.

I did get 3066 (3080 as MCE decided to add 0.5 BCLK randomly again) CL12 1T to train just fine (see screenshot) with manual secondary / tertiary timings and "Auto" RTL / IO. I'm going to see what "Auto Enhanced" and manual RTL / IO will give me now.

EDIT: I even got away with CL11-12-12-28-280-1T on 3000Mhz. It did train to 47/49/6/7 on Auto Enhanced but was too unstable to complete a AIDA64 run lol. Memory_management BSOD half way through.


----------



## Dim0n527

*Hi to all*
_Today I can get Stable 4600MHz on my mb. RCD 17 and 18 unstable on any voltages.
ASUS Z370 ROG MAXIMUS X APEX 2301 BIOS
G.SKILL F4-4000C17D-16GTRS
CPU @5100MHz Ring @4800MHz Adaptive voltage 1.264-1.312V LLC 5
DRAM @4600MHz 17-19-19-28 2T 1.504V
VCCIO 1.296V 
VCCSA 1.392V_


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah coming up. I'm not at my PC now so.
> 
> What I wanna try is very simple, I see plenty of people, mostly with ASUS boards, posting here with 4000 CL16 1T or even higher.
> 
> I know it's probably the lack of trace centering in my BIOS / board that doesn't allow me to do 1T but still.. If I can get away with 4000 CL16 1T or 4200 CL17 1T that should be faster then 4200 CL16 2T.
> 
> EDIT: I couldn't get 3200 CL12 1T to properly train. If it did POST at all it would be all over the place like 54/61/6/11 and such. Even with manuals.
> 
> I did get 3066 (3080 as MCE decided to add 0.5 BCLK randomly again) CL12 1T to train just fine (see screenshot) with manual secondary / tertiary timings and "Auto" RTL / IO. I'm going to see what "Auto Enhanced" and manual RTL / IO will give me now.
> 
> EDIT: I even got away with CL11-12-12-28-280-1T on 3000Mhz. It did train to 47/49/6/7 on Auto Enhanced but was too unstable to complete a AIDA64 run lol. Memory_management BSOD half way through.


I'm not sure you will be able to get a 1T stable at the high frequency you want if a 3200 won't train nicely. I have no idea but it would be nice to start with a higher stable base to guesstimate the RTLs a little more accurately.
I didn't get 1T stable at 4200-17-17-17-37. Close but not really and the voltages were too high so I know it's not a goer.
It might be easier to tighten up a 4200-16-16-16-36-2T with the RTLs and get reasonable aida scores. What did you have already?
I ran one up with not bad scores and it seems pretty stable. Ran some short tests and played 4 hours of BFV 
I actually think this will be my favorite


----------



## munternet

Dim0n527 said:


> *Hi to all*
> _Today I can get Stable 4600MHz on my mb. RCD 17 and 18 unstable on any voltages.
> ASUS Z370 ROG MAXIMUS X APEX 2301 BIOS
> G.SKILL F4-4000C17D-16GTRS
> CPU @5100MHz Ring @4800MHz Adaptive voltage 1.264-1.312V LLC 5
> DRAM @4600MHz 17-19-19-28 2T 1.504V
> VCCIO 1.296V
> VCCSA 1.392V_
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMRgx4fz9k4


Nice one :thumb:
With a 9600KF


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> I'm not sure you will be able to get a 1T stable at the high frequency you want if a 3200 won't train nicely. I have no idea but it would be nice to start with a higher stable base to guesstimate the RTLs a little more accurately.
> I didn't get 1T stable at 4200-17-17-17-37. Close but not really and the voltages were too high so I know it's not a goer.
> It might be easier to tighten up a 4200-16-16-16-36-2T with the RTLs and get reasonable aida scores. What did you have already?
> I ran one up with not bad scores and it seems pretty stable. Ran some short tests and played 4 hours of BFV
> I actually think this will be my favorite


Very nice....

I couldn't get your secondaries stable on my setup so Saturday I ordered a new set of 4266 G.skill RAM... The kit I was using was actually from my IX Code setup and wasn't on the Apex XI QVL, so I decided to just get a new set.. I also ordered the delid / direct die frame for my 9900k and some liquid metal... Going to see if I can get the temps down a bit too... Even with a full custom loop and a 360 radiator this 9900k is a pain to keep cool....

Can't wait to see what I can get the RAM to do now that I'll have a faster kit....and one actually on the QVL this time.. lol


----------



## Gen.

Who needed 4000 settings for apex 11 - take it


----------



## Nizzen

Gen. said:


> Who needed 4000 settings for apex 11 - take it


Looks like benchmarking on a cool place 

Pleace post Aida 64 memorybenchmark


----------



## reflex75

Gen. said:


> Who needed 4000 settings for apex 11 - take it


Testing memory at only 38°?
Perfect to kill your Windows when temperature will rise!
Imagine your CPU OC stable only below 60°...


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> I'm not sure you will be able to get a 1T stable at the high frequency you want if a 3200 won't train nicely. I have no idea but it would be nice to start with a higher stable base to guesstimate the RTLs a little more accurately.
> I didn't get 1T stable at 4200-17-17-17-37. Close but not really and the voltages were too high so I know it's not a goer.
> It might be easier to tighten up a 4200-16-16-16-36-2T with the RTLs and get reasonable aida scores. What did you have already?
> I ran one up with not bad scores and it seems pretty stable. Ran some short tests and played 4 hours of BFV
> I actually think this will be my favorite


I'm on 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T rock solid tested for several hours in many different stress tests. 16-16-16 is out of the question. I'm already at 1.55v DRAM and these DIMM's just don't wanna run 16-16-16. I get about 63GB read write 59GB copy 35.8ns latency so it's obviously fine there but I'm bored working from home and just wanted some stuff to tweak between work.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I'm on 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T rock solid tested for several hours in many different stress tests. 16-16-16 is out of the question. I'm already at 1.55v DRAM and these DIMM's just don't wanna run 16-16-16. I get about 63GB read write 59GB copy 35.8ns latency so it's obviously fine there but I'm bored working from home and just wanted some stuff to tweak between work.


Seems pretty decent. I was curious to see the RTLs if you have a configurator shot. What are the IOLs?


----------



## Robostyle

Damn...How do you, ppl, get your 16GB sticks run so fast?!

[email protected] 1.425V, the highest I can get with mine - and that is b-die..


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Robostyle said:


> Damn...How do you, ppl, get your 16GB sticks run so fast?!
> 
> [email protected] 1.425V, the highest I can get with mine - and that is b-die..


On 16GB sticks, the new Micron C9BLL is far better than b-die, but very expensive tho, 2x16GB kit costs 390USD


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Seems pretty decent. I was curious to see the RTLs if you have a configurator shot. What are the IOLs?


62/60/7/7. I let the board do it for me as the "Auto enhanced" option gives tighter RTL then trying to manually set them. 67/67/4/4 initials on Auto enhanced.


----------



## coolice

some memory stability tests before launch

4600 Micron 4x16GB SR
 

4666 Micron 2x8GB SR
 

4800 Micron 2x16GB SR


4800 Hynix 2x8GB SR


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> I'm on 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T rock solid tested for several hours in many different stress tests. 16-16-16 is out of the question. I'm already at 1.55v DRAM and these DIMM's just don't wanna run 16-16-16. I get about 63GB read write 59GB copy 35.8ns latency so it's obviously fine there but I'm bored working from home and just wanted some stuff to tweak between work.


That's pretty good, and you don't even have Apex XI like me, I've settled at my old [email protected] with 65534 tREFI and 320 tRFC, also 12 tWR, 39.3ns latency, all Apex XI did for my when I changed from my Hero X was the capability of booting RAM frequency way higher than before (I was limited to 4000Mhz) but my OC is the same, couldn't get [email protected], [email protected] or [email protected] stable


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> Who needed 4000 settings for apex 11 - take it


Pretty good, same 8700k as mine, makes me wonder what's wrong with my system, I have same mobo and as described above I can't even have an average OC... Maybe my CPU IMC is so crap?


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I'm on 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T rock solid tested for several hours in many different stress tests. 16-16-16 is out of the question. I'm already at 1.55v DRAM and these DIMM's just don't wanna run 16-16-16. I get about 63GB read write 59GB copy 35.8ns latency so it's obviously fine there but I'm bored working from home and just wanted some stuff to tweak between work.


Can you get 16-16-16-36-2T if you copy my secondaries and tertiaries exactly? Even starting with 16 on the tWRRD_sg and dg and 16 on the tCWL and tWR.
Just curious because mine work better like that.
Those RTLs look tight 



ViTosS said:


> That's pretty good, and you don't even have Apex XI like me, I've settled at my old [email protected] with 65534 tREFI and 320 tRFC, also 12 tWR, 39.3ns latency, all Apex XI did for my when I changed from my Hero X was the capability of booting RAM frequency way higher than before (I was limited to 4000Mhz) but my OC is the same, couldn't get [email protected], [email protected] or [email protected] stable


I did some testing on tWR and 16 seemed to be the best by a small margin in Aida64 (as suggested by Gen.) although I got it down to 6.
I also found that tRFC doesn't help performance any lower than 360 on my system and can actually make the Aida results inconsistent.
You do seem to have something holding you back. Can you try some different sticks or something?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

coolice said:


> some memory stability tests before launch
> 
> 4600 Micron 4x16GB SR
> 
> 
> 4666 Micron 2x8GB SR
> 
> 
> 4800 Micron 2x16GB SR
> 
> 
> 4800 Hynix 2x8GB SR


Very impressive results for 4x16GB. May it be possible to share your voltage settings?


----------



## SuperMumrik

coolice said:


> some memory stability tests before launch
> 
> 4600 Micron 4x16GB SR
> 
> 
> 4666 Micron 2x8GB SR
> 
> 
> 4800 Micron 2x16GB SR
> 
> 
> 4800 Hynix 2x8GB SR


Nice! Do you have any Aida64 results for the 4800 Micron 2x16GB SR kit?


----------



## Robostyle

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> On 16GB sticks, the new Micron C9BLL is far better than b-die, but very expensive tho, 2x16GB kit costs 390USD


Oh, so these are new 2GB chip sticks, single ranked?
I thought you run dualrank at sky-high 4000-4600

Anyone have settings/RTL/IOL for dualrank 4000?


----------



## newls1

are these the 16gb SR sticks we are talking about? https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164165?&quicklink=true .... buildziod has them, been waiting on a review for a hot minute now


----------



## JoeRambo

16GB SR DDR4 4000CL18 @1.35V is big deal, i am very intrigued right now


----------



## Gen.

reflex75 said:


> Testing memory at only 38°?
> Perfect to kill your Windows when temperature will rise!
> Imagine your CPU OC stable only below 60°...





Nizzen said:


> Looks like benchmarking on a cool place
> 
> Pleace post Aida 64 memorybenchmark


Hey. I'm from Russia. The Republic of Karelia welcomes you! I don’t know how it is with you, but I have a temperature of 27 degrees Celsius at home, about 20 outside the window, I just have to blow memory and that's all. Just good blowing.


----------



## newls1

Gen. said:


> Hey. I'm from Russia. The Republic of Karelia welcomes you! I don’t know how it is with you, but I have a temperature of 27 degrees Celsius at home, about 20 outside the window, I just have to blow memory and that's all. Just good blowing.


I love a good blowing.....


----------



## PipJones

Hi, I'm playing with some DDR4-3600 on an X99 platform (Rampage V Extreme with 6850K). 

Memory is: Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M4B3600C18

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK16GX4M4B3600C18

Can anyone give me some guidance on how to get the latency down while sticking at 3200? 

Do you think I've hit the best I can do with this?

Thanks in advance

https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=351258&thumb=1


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Robostyle said:


> Oh, so these are new 2GB chip sticks, single ranked?
> I thought you run dualrank at sky-high 4000-4600
> 
> Anyone have settings/RTL/IOL for dualrank 4000?


Yup, these are 2GB die SR sticks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

newls1 said:


> are these the 16gb SR sticks we are talking about? https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164165?&quicklink=true .... buildziod has them, been waiting on a review for a hot minute now


Only Ballistix Max 2x16GB models have such die. Normal Ballistix uses C9BKV.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SuperMumrik said:


> Nice! Do you have any Aida64 results for the 4800 Micron 2x16GB SR kit?


Here you go


----------



## sinquisitor

Hello, I'm new here. Anyway, so I have this ram kit here (4 kits), and Maximus XI Hero, and it won't run at its rated 4000mhz cl19 speed when all 4 slots are filled.

https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX440C19PB3_8.pdf

My cpu is a [email protected],9 with offset voltage +0,005 and LLC4, cache is at 46x. The ram's behaviour is the same on both stock and overclocks on the cpu, so I don't think cpu oc is the issue.

The ram kit above is QVL supported by XI Hero on 1,2 and 4 dimm configurations. However, when all 4 dimms are active, ram won't do [email protected] In fact, it's so bad, even the RAW MHZ profile won't work on ANY vccsa/io levels up to 1.35 on both, and dram up to 1.5v. I don't know why it'd error out like that because JEDEC speed as well as the second XMP profile which is [email protected] definitely works, at around 1.15V on both VCCSA and IO. I didn't test them at voltages lower than 1.15, maybe they'll even work then. So they CAN work with all 4 slots filled up to 3600 but not at 4000. In fact, I remember trying 4000mhz XMP profile on lower speeds such as [email protected] 21 21 42 and I remember those settings not being stable as well. Why would the board lock itself past 3600 when 4 slots are filled? The thing is, the rams are great. At least I think they are. I bought 2x8 first and overclocked them to 4000 XMP with no issues. It will even do 4266 with voltage adjustments, I figured since this is a T topology board, rams will overclock better if I added 2 more. I tested the new 2 kits on their own, and they can also go to 4000, even 4266. But when I combine all of them, memory errors in windows occurs, passmark hammer test fails, hci memtest fails, merely downloading a file through google chrome creates problems on XMP at even ridiculous voltage levels let alone normal levels.

I must say, this has been bugging me for a month and I'm at the end of my rope. I know the speeds can be done because 2x sticks work and 4x sticks post, go into windows but create problems/corruptions in my OS. So something needs to be tuned probably. I know next to nothing about secondary-tertiary and RTL-IO latency timings so on all of my tests I left them on auto. I also didn't touch memory training algorithms, so they are as is, as well. Maybe I should enable all of the training algorithms and then the motherboard will figure out the rest of the timings? Or do I need to do manual adjustment on tertiaries/RTLs? I have no idea, which is why I need help on this from someone expert on timings. Thanks for reading.


----------



## The Pook

newls1 said:


> I love a good blowing.....



even a bad blowing is still pretty good.


----------



## CptSpig

The Pook said:


> even a bad blowing is still pretty good.


Dirty, Dirty, Dirty


----------



## SgtRotty

The Pook said:


> newls1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love a good blowing.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even a bad blowing is still pretty good.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to give a thumbs up!


----------



## ttnuagmada

Anyone see any easy improvements i could make? I think I've about reached the edge of stability with these. I'm only about 30% sure about what I'm doing.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Rig:
i7 9700k @ 5.0ghz core, 4.7ghz ring (capable of 5.1 core 4.8 ring, but I'm already completely GPU bound in games, so no sense making it sweat)
Aorus Z390 Ultra
Team Dark Pro 2x8 3200mhz CL14 at 4000mhz 16 18 18 38 T2 1.46V

I've been tinkering with this setup for a few months now, on and off, and the above primary timings are the best that I can do at any voltage to achieve a 4000mhz memory overclock with these 2 dimms. I can't seem to get 4133 or higher stable. 4000 16 16 16 and 16 17 17 will boot, but not even 1.5V will prevent memtest HCI from spitting out errors. Tried T1, will not boot at any voltage. 

Downloaded Aida64 for the first time, running a trial version just to test latency. 3200 14 14 14 31 seems to give me about 47ns latency. 4000 16 18 18 38 gives me just under 45ns latency.

My goal now is to see if there's any additional secondary and tertiary timings that I can tune that might improve latency. Any suggestions? Thanks 

And yes, my desktop background is a pile of raccoons dueling with Kylo Ren.


----------



## Worldwin

KrampusKlaus said:


> Rig:
> SNIP
> And yes, my desktop background is a pile of raccoons dueling with Kylo Ren.


See if you can get RTL lower. Using the z370 gaming 7 i was able to get them to 68 for the RTL's for 4000 16 16 16 44. I believe that should help. Try to lower tFAW/tCWL @ 14/14. Try lowering the tertiaries labeled with _sg/_dg. Lowering tWRDDS_sg/_dg will define tWTR_L/_S.
My guesses for you to try:tRDRD_sg/_dg to 6/4
tRDWR_sg/_dg to 12/12
tWRRD_sg/_dg to 30/26
tRTP to 10
tWRWR_sg/_dg to 6/4
My guesses for you.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Worldwin said:


> See if you can get RTL lower. Using the z370 gaming 7 i was able to get them to 68 for the RTL's for 4000 16 16 16 44. I believe that should help. Try to lower tFAW/tCWL @ 14/14. Try lowering the tertiaries labeled with _sg/_dg. Lowering tWRDDS_sg/_dg will define tWTR_L/_S.
> My guesses for you to try:tRDRD_sg/_dg to 6/4
> tRDWR_sg/_dg to 12/12
> tWRRD_sg/_dg to 30/26
> tRTP to 10
> tWRWR_sg/_dg to 6/4
> My guesses for you.


Thanks. I was able to change everything but the RTLs. Increased my read speed by a bit, but had a negligible effect on latency. Still was good and I'm praying that these setting will pass memtest lol.

Does anyone here have experience trying to reduce RTLs on an Aorus Z390 board? I can't seem to find the settings in BIOS. Is this a timing that Gigabyte 300 series boards auto train or something?


----------



## munternet

KrampusKlaus said:


> Thanks. I was able to change everything but the RTLs. Increased my read speed by a bit, but had a negligible effect on latency. Still was good and I'm praying that these setting will pass memtest lol.
> 
> Does anyone here have experience trying to reduce RTLs on an Aorus Z390 board? I can't seem to find the settings in BIOS. Is this a timing that Gigabyte 300 series boards auto train or something?


I don't know how to change the RTLs sorry but here's some numbers that work for me which might work for you
Very similar to what @Worldwin said 

tWR 16
tWTR_L 8 controlled by tWRRD_sg (30)
tWTR_S 4 controlled by tWRRD_dg (26)
tRTP 8

tRDRD_sg 6
tRDRD_dg 4
tRDWR_sg lower as much as poss LAST
tRDWR_dg lower as much as poss LAST
tWRWR_sg 6
tWRWR_dg 4

If you can manually input these:
RTL 61-63-7-7-21-21 medium
RTL 61-62-7-6-21-21 tight
RTL 60-62-6-6-21-21 tighter

tREFI Auto and double it

Other numbers look ok


----------



## Robostyle

Hm, odd results here - these two should be a little faster with this set, right?
Especially read speed drop?


----------



## munternet

Robostyle said:


> Hm, odd results here - these two should be a little faster with this set, right?
> Especially read speed drop?


See my suggestions above but RTLs for this: (assuming 21 is the offset. Maybe get 4.0.4 configurator)
58/60/7/7/21/21
58/59/6/6/21/21
57/59/6/6/21/21 fast

May have to relax some other numbers before tightening RTLs then tighten them again after


----------



## reflex75

sinquisitor said:


> However, when all 4 dimms are active, ram won't do [email protected] ... *I bought 2x8 first*


This is your problem!
Always get 4 modules in 1 single package (tested to work together).


----------



## newls1

reflex75 said:


> This is your problem!
> Always get 4 modules in 1 single package (tested to work together).


Im sorry, but i cant stand when people say this. Not saying that isnt true, but for years upon years upon years ive bought ram in 2x8gb sets and not 1 time have i ever had it be an issue. Tell me something so i can learn from this, when a company (lets say g.skill) sells a 4x8set of dimms, what exactly are they checking all 4 dimms for?


----------



## xSneak

Are there any results in here of 16GB micron B Die dimms? I read that they have loose trfc compared to the samsung b-die competition. 
I'm also curious if anyone knows of a difference in overclocking between g.skill tridentz and TridentzRGB or Royal kits. 
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232768
vs 
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232668?&quicklink=true 
vs 
https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164165
https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164163

In a review of the micron b-die based corsair kit:
"Overclocking was easy. With CH8 Formula 3800 18-22-22-42 was stable at 1.35v.
But it's micron. It was too hard to tighten secondary timings. (Trc >60, Trfc >600)
It leads to slow latency."

I see people reporting 16-16-16-32 @ 3900mhz and 14-16-16 @ 3733Mhz for the samsung g.skill kits.


----------



## Nizzen

reflex75 said:


> This is your problem!
> Always get 4 modules in 1 single package (tested to work together).


There is no problem mixing 2 kits of 8gb b-die memory. Never was a problem, and never will 

Have mixed b-die kits for years. That is how we are binning memory 

With memory other than b-die I don't know.

The problem is "allways" bad IMC or you need more "juice" aka Vdram, VccSA and VccIO 

Start with 1.5 vdram, 1.35 VccIO and 1.4 VccSA. If this is working, then work down the IO and SA.

Rule nr 2: Allways use Asus Apex for memory OC. It just works


----------



## reflex75

Nizzen said:


> There is no problem mixing 2 kits of 8gb b-die memory. Never was a problem, and never will
> 
> Have mixed b-die kits for years. That is how we are binning memory
> 
> With memory other than b-die I don't know.


Matched set has been tested together during the binning process, and are guaranteed to work together at advertised spec.
Now having said that, it should be fine to mix two identical kits, but that's the difference between "should work" and "really tested together".
Other eventuality, it could be temperature instability with 4 modules, because memory is very sensitive to temperature, especially at higher speed.
Or maybe it's just a potato IMC that can't sustain 4 modules together at that speed...


----------



## Jpmboy

reflex75 said:


> Matched set has been tested together during the binning process, and are guaranteed to work together at advertised spec.
> Now having said that, it should be fine to mix two identical kits,* but that's the difference between "should work" and "really tested together".*
> Other eventuality, it could be temperature instability with 4 modules, because memory is very sensitive to temperature, especially at higher speed.
> Or maybe it's just a potato IMC that can't sustain 4 modules together at that speed...


The main difference is that someone at G.Skill combined sticks that they were able to "make" work together... when you mix kits yourself, you have to make them work together.


----------



## munternet

reflex75 said:


> This is your problem!
> Always get 4 modules in 1 single package (tested to work together).


While this is good advice when buying ram they can be fairly different and still work together.
I had 2 sets of 2x8GB gskill 4400cl19 working together on a Maximus Hero X @4200MHz and 4000cl15
1 set was older A1 PCB with the larger chips and the other A2 PCB.
Saying that, I'm sure they would have performed better if they were from the same generation but not the same batch


----------



## Sedril

Still tweaking the new kit, but looking good so far... Need to get that latency down, I'm happy with the speeds but not the latency yet...

Edit: Trying to figure out why some of these settings are showing up 1 higher than what I set in the BIOS... Specifically Write Recovery Time 16 in BIOS, but 17 in configurator... and Write to Read Delay both _L and _S are 1 higher too... I'm sure there's some calculation I'm missing....


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Sedril said:


> Still tweaking the new kit, but looking good so far... Need to get that latency down, I'm happy with the speeds but not the latency yet...


Try IOL-Offset=15


----------



## Sedril

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try IOL-Offset=15


Thank you for the advise, that brought almost a full point down... Just need to figure out what to do next.. and do some more stability testing to make sure it's good...

Thanks!


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> Still tweaking the new kit, but looking good so far... Need to get that latency down, I'm happy with the speeds but not the latency yet...
> 
> Edit: Trying to figure out why some of these settings are showing up 1 higher than what I set in the BIOS... Specifically Write Recovery Time 16 in BIOS, but 17 in configurator... and Write to Read Delay both _L and _S are 1 higher too... I'm sure there's some calculation I'm missing....


Try 60/62/6/7/21/21 or 60/61/6/6/21/21
Try and lower the 16s on the right of the configurator after that.


----------



## AeonMW2

delete


----------



## Robostyle

Can anyone share a link/direct me - where can I find latency/voltage curve(s) for best DDR4 bins, at least for b-die?
I remember there was something like that:
3200CL14 -> 4000CL19 @ 10-9ns first word, 1.35V;
3466CL14 -> 4000CL16 @8-7ns first word, from 1.45V
etc.,etc....


----------



## Kargeras

Hi, 

I have the following kit G.Skill Ripjaws 4x16GB DDR4 | 3200Mhz @ [email protected] (F4-3200C14Q-64GVK) and would like to improve GFLOPS in LinX and the overall performance a bit.
Complete rig is in signature.

It's supposed to be a B-Die but I'm thinking that being 64GB does not help.

The default XMP profile passes HCI Memtest v7.0 Pro and TM5 with Extreme Anta7 .cfg.
For that it requires 1.36v instead of the rated 1.35v but it can also mean the mainboard undervolts a bit.

Can you recommend a good place to start the overclock, please?


----------



## SunnyStefan

Kargeras said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the following kit G.Skill Ripjaws 4x16GB DDR4 | 3200Mhz @ [email protected] (F4-3200C14Q-64GVK) and would like to improve GFLOPS in LinX and the overall performance a bit.
> Complete rig is in signature.
> 
> It's supposed to be a B-Die but I'm thinking that being 64GB does not help.
> 
> The default XMP profile passes HCI Memtest v7.0 Pro and TM5 with Extreme Anta7 .cfg.
> For that it requires 1.36v instead of the rated 1.35v but it can also mean the mainboard undervolts a bit.
> 
> Can you recommend a good place to start the overclock, please?



Everytime this comes up I will recommend this guide: https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md/


----------



## Gen.

Hello from Russia! Your general is with you  Here is my config now, I just have to try to work with RFC, can down + try to lower VCCIO + VCCSA.
4400 16-16-36-1T (03+02 DIMM) 1.53500VDRAM-1.25000VCCIO-1.30000VCCSA + RTL


Spoiler



[2020/06/04 23:36:40]
Ai Overclock Tuner [XMP I]
XMP [XMP DDR4-3603 16-16-16-36-1.35V]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Auto – Lets BIOS Optimize]
SVID Behavior [Auto]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [Auto]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [50]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:100]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-4400MHz]
Xtreme Tweaking [Disabled]
CPU SVID Support [Auto]
Maximus Tweak [Mode 2]
DRAM CAS# Latency [16]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [36]
DRAM Command Rate [1N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [16]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [8]
DRAM Write Latency [16]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]
Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [59]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
Early Command Training [Auto]
SenseAmp Offset Training [Enabled]
Early ReadMPR Timing Centering 2D [Enabled]
Read MPR Training [Enabled]
Receive Enable Training [Enabled]
Jedec Write Leveling [Enabled]
Early Write Time Centering 2D [Auto]
Early Read Time Centering 2D [Auto]
Write Timing Centering 1D [Enabled]
Write Voltage Centering 1D [Auto]
Read Timing Centering 1D [Auto]
Dimm ODT Training* [Auto]
Max RTT_WR [ODT Off]
DIMM RON Training* [Auto]
Write Drive Strength/Equalization 2D* [Disabled]
Write Slew Rate Training* [Auto]
Read ODT Training* [Auto]
Read Equalization Training* [Auto]
Read Amplifier Training* [Auto]
Write Timing Centering 2D [Auto]
Read Timing Centering 2D [Auto]
Command Voltage Centering [Auto]
Write Voltage Centering 2D [Auto]
Read Voltage Centering 2D [Auto]
Late Command Training [Auto]
Round Trip Latency [Auto]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
Rank Margin Tool [Disabled]
Memory Test [Disabled]
DIMM SPD Alias Test [Auto]
Receive Enable Centering 1D [Auto]
Retrain Margin Check [Disabled]
Write Drive Strength Up/Dn independently [Disabled]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [28]
tWRRD_dg [24]
tRDRD_dr [0]
tRDRD_dd [0]
tRDWR_dr [0]
tRDWR_dd [0]
tWRWR_dr [0]
tWRWR_dd [0]
tWRRD_dr [0]
tWRRD_dd [0]
TWRPRE [36]
TRDPRE [8]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [Auto]
MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
Delay after Train [Disabled]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
Trace Centering [Enabled]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [Auto]
DLLBwEn [Auto]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
XTU Setting [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 6]
Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Disabled]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
Active Frequency Mode [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [Extreme]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU Power Thermal Control [120]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Disabled]
DRAM Current Capability [130%]
DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]
CPU Core/Cache Boot Voltage [Auto]
DMI Boot Voltage [Auto]
Core PLL Boot Voltage [Auto]
CPU System Agent Boot Voltage [Auto]
CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage [Auto]
PLL Termination Boot voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Boot Voltage [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
Package Power Time Window [127]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Auto]
Realtime Memory Timing [Disabled]
FCLK Frequency for Early Power On [Auto]
Initial BCLK Frequency [Auto]
BCLK Amplitude [Auto]
BCLK Slew Rate [Auto]
BCLK Spread Spectrum [Auto]
BCLK Frequency Slew Rate [Auto]
DRAM VTT Voltage [Auto]
VPPDDR Voltage [Auto]
DMI Voltage [Auto]
Core PLL Voltage [Auto]
Internal PLL Voltage [Auto]
GT PLL Voltage [Auto]
Ring PLL Voltage [Auto]
System Agent PLL Voltage [Auto]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage [Auto]
PLL Bandwidth [Auto]
Eventual DRAM Voltage [Auto]
Eventual CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
Eventual PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
Eventual DMI Voltage [Auto]
Package Temperature Threshold [Auto]
Regulate Frequency by above Threshold [Auto]
Cooler Efficiency Customize [Keep Training]
Cooler Re-evaluation Algorithm [Normal]
Optimism Scale [100]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.75]
Ring Down Bin [Disabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [46]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [46]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Adaptive Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage [Auto]
- Offset Voltage [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.5350]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.25000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.30000]
PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
ASPM 0 [Disabled]
L1 Substates [Disabled]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
Software Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
Intel (VMX) Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Thermal Monitor [Enabled]
Boot performance mode [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Auto]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Auto]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
VT-d [Disabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Disabled]
Memory Remap [Enabled]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_7(Gray) [Enabled]
SATA6G_7 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_8(Gray) [Enabled]
SATA6G_8 Hot Plug [Disabled]
PTT [Disable]
HD Audio [Enabled]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
When system is in working state [All On]
Q-Code LED Function [POST Code Only]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [All On]
PCIEX16_3 Bandwidth [X2 Mode]
Hyper M.2 X16: [Disable][Enable] [Disabled]
USB power delivery in Soft Off state (S5) [Enabled]
Front Panel USB Type C Power Mode [Auto]
Back I/O USB Type C Power Mode [Auto]
Connectivity mode (Wi-Fi & Bluetooth) [Enable]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
SR-IOV Support [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
XHCI Hand-off [Disabled]
USB FLASH DRIVE PMAP [Auto]
U31G2_1 [Enabled]
U31G1_E1 [Enabled]
U31G1_E2 [Enabled]
U31G1_E3 [Enabled]
U31G1_E4 [Enabled]
U31G2_3 [Enabled]
U31G2_4 [Enabled]
LAN1_U31G2_5 [Enabled]
U31G2_C6 [Enabled]
U31G1_7 [Enabled]
U31G1_8 [Enabled]
U31G1_9 [Enabled]
U31G1_10 [Enabled]
USB_11 [Enabled]
USB_12 [Enabled]
U31G1_E5 [Enabled]
U31G1_E6 [Enabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Device [N\A]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
DIMM.2 Sensor 1 Temperature [Monitor]
DIMM.2 Sensor 2 Temperature [Monitor]
Water In T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
Water Out T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
High Amp Fan Speed [Monitor]
W_PUMP+ Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
Flow Rate [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
CPU Fan Step Up [0 sec]
CPU Fan Step Down [0 sec]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Turbo]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
High Amp Fan Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
WATER PUMP+ Control [Disabled]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
CPU Temperature LED Switch [Enabled]
Firmware Configuration [Test]
Type C Support [Platform-POR]
Fast Boot [Enabled]
Next Boot after AC Power Loss [Normal Boot]
Boot Logo Display [Enabled]
POST Delay Time [3 sec]
Bootup NumLock State [On]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
Boot Sector (MBR/GPT) Recovery Policy [Local User Control]
Next Boot Recovery Action [Skip]
Launch CSM [Disabled]
OS Type [Other OS]
AMI Native NVMe Driver Support [Enabled]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [46001717]
Save to Profile [1]
DIMM Slot Number [DIMM_A1]
Download & Install ARMOURY CRATE app [Enabled]
Bus Interface [PCIEX16_1]


----------



## Nizzen

Gen. said:


> Hello from Russia! Your general is with you  Here is my config now, I just have to try to work with RFC, can down + try to lower VCCIO + VCCSA.
> 4400 16-16-36-1T (03+02 DIMM) 1.53500VDRAM-1.25000VCCIO-1.30000VCCSA + RTL
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> [2020/06/04 23:36:40]
> Ai Overclock Tuner [XMP I]
> XMP [XMP DDR4-3603 16-16-16-36-1.35V]
> BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
> ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Auto – Lets BIOS Optimize]
> SVID Behavior [Auto]
> AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [Auto]
> CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
> 1-Core Ratio Limit [50]
> BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:100]
> DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
> DRAM Frequency [DDR4-4400MHz]
> Xtreme Tweaking [Disabled]
> CPU SVID Support [Auto]
> Maximus Tweak [Mode 2]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [16]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [36]
> DRAM Command Rate [1N]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [16]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [8]
> DRAM Write Latency [16]
> ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
> ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
> ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
> ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
> Data Rising Slope [Auto]
> Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [59]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> Early Command Training [Auto]
> SenseAmp Offset Training [Enabled]
> Early ReadMPR Timing Centering 2D [Enabled]
> Read MPR Training [Enabled]
> Receive Enable Training [Enabled]
> Jedec Write Leveling [Enabled]
> Early Write Time Centering 2D [Auto]
> Early Read Time Centering 2D [Auto]
> Write Timing Centering 1D [Enabled]
> Write Voltage Centering 1D [Auto]
> Read Timing Centering 1D [Auto]
> Dimm ODT Training* [Auto]
> Max RTT_WR [ODT Off]
> DIMM RON Training* [Auto]
> Write Drive Strength/Equalization 2D* [Disabled]
> Write Slew Rate Training* [Auto]
> Read ODT Training* [Auto]
> Read Equalization Training* [Auto]
> Read Amplifier Training* [Auto]
> Write Timing Centering 2D [Auto]
> Read Timing Centering 2D [Auto]
> Command Voltage Centering [Auto]
> Write Voltage Centering 2D [Auto]
> Read Voltage Centering 2D [Auto]
> Late Command Training [Auto]
> Round Trip Latency [Auto]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Disabled]
> Memory Test [Disabled]
> DIMM SPD Alias Test [Auto]
> Receive Enable Centering 1D [Auto]
> Retrain Margin Check [Disabled]
> Write Drive Strength Up/Dn independently [Disabled]
> tRDRD_sg [6]
> tRDRD_dg [4]
> tRDWR_sg [10]
> tRDWR_dg [10]
> tWRWR_sg [6]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [28]
> tWRRD_dg [24]
> tRDRD_dr [0]
> tRDRD_dd [0]
> tRDWR_dr [0]
> tRDWR_dd [0]
> tWRWR_dr [0]
> tWRWR_dd [0]
> tWRRD_dr [0]
> tWRRD_dd [0]
> TWRPRE [36]
> TRDPRE [8]
> tREFIX9 [127]
> OREF_RI [Auto]
> MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
> Delay after Train [Disabled]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
> Trace Centering [Enabled]
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [Auto]
> DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
> XTU Setting [Auto]
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 6]
> Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Disabled]
> CPU Current Capability [140%]
> CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
> Active Frequency Mode [Disabled]
> CPU Power Duty Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Thermal Control [120]
> CPU VRM Thermal Control [Disabled]
> DRAM Current Capability [130%]
> DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
> Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]
> CPU Core/Cache Boot Voltage [Auto]
> DMI Boot Voltage [Auto]
> Core PLL Boot Voltage [Auto]
> CPU System Agent Boot Voltage [Auto]
> CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage [Auto]
> PLL Termination Boot voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Boot Voltage [Auto]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> Package Power Time Window [127]
> Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> IA AC Load Line [0.01]
> IA DC Load Line [0.01]
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Auto]
> Realtime Memory Timing [Disabled]
> FCLK Frequency for Early Power On [Auto]
> Initial BCLK Frequency [Auto]
> BCLK Amplitude [Auto]
> BCLK Slew Rate [Auto]
> BCLK Spread Spectrum [Auto]
> BCLK Frequency Slew Rate [Auto]
> DRAM VTT Voltage [Auto]
> VPPDDR Voltage [Auto]
> DMI Voltage [Auto]
> Core PLL Voltage [Auto]
> Internal PLL Voltage [Auto]
> GT PLL Voltage [Auto]
> Ring PLL Voltage [Auto]
> System Agent PLL Voltage [Auto]
> Memory Controller PLL Voltage [Auto]
> PLL Bandwidth [Auto]
> Eventual DRAM Voltage [Auto]
> Eventual CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
> Eventual PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
> Eventual DMI Voltage [Auto]
> Package Temperature Threshold [Auto]
> Regulate Frequency by above Threshold [Auto]
> Cooler Efficiency Customize [Keep Training]
> Cooler Re-evaluation Algorithm [Normal]
> Optimism Scale [100]
> CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.75]
> Ring Down Bin [Disabled]
> Min. CPU Cache Ratio [46]
> Max CPU Cache Ratio [46]
> BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Adaptive Mode]
> - Offset Mode Sign [+]
> - Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage [Auto]
> - Offset Voltage [0.050]
> DRAM Voltage [1.5350]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.25000]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [1.30000]
> PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
> PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
> PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
> ASPM 0 [Disabled]
> L1 Substates [Disabled]
> PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
> DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
> PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
> Software Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
> Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
> Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
> Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
> Intel (VMX) Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
> Active Processor Cores [All]
> Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
> Thermal Monitor [Enabled]
> Boot performance mode [Auto]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
> Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Auto]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> CPU C-states [Auto]
> CFG Lock [Disabled]
> VT-d [Disabled]
> Above 4G Decoding [Disabled]
> Memory Remap [Enabled]
> DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIe Speed [Auto]
> SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
> SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
> Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
> SMART Self Test [Enabled]
> SATA6G_1(Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_2(Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_3(Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_4(Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_5(Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_6(Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_7(Gray) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_7 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_8(Gray) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_8 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> PTT [Disable]
> HD Audio [Enabled]
> Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
> Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
> When system is in working state [All On]
> Q-Code LED Function [POST Code Only]
> When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [All On]
> PCIEX16_3 Bandwidth [X2 Mode]
> Hyper M.2 X16: [Disable][Enable] [Disabled]
> USB power delivery in Soft Off state (S5) [Enabled]
> Front Panel USB Type C Power Mode [Auto]
> Back I/O USB Type C Power Mode [Auto]
> Connectivity mode (Wi-Fi & Bluetooth) [Enable]
> ErP Ready [Disabled]
> Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
> Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
> Power On By RTC [Disabled]
> SR-IOV Support [Disabled]
> Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
> XHCI Hand-off [Disabled]
> USB FLASH DRIVE PMAP [Auto]
> U31G2_1 [Enabled]
> U31G1_E1 [Enabled]
> U31G1_E2 [Enabled]
> U31G1_E3 [Enabled]
> U31G1_E4 [Enabled]
> U31G2_3 [Enabled]
> U31G2_4 [Enabled]
> LAN1_U31G2_5 [Enabled]
> U31G2_C6 [Enabled]
> U31G1_7 [Enabled]
> U31G1_8 [Enabled]
> U31G1_9 [Enabled]
> U31G1_10 [Enabled]
> USB_11 [Enabled]
> USB_12 [Enabled]
> U31G1_E5 [Enabled]
> U31G1_E6 [Enabled]
> Network Stack [Disabled]
> Device [N\A]
> CPU Temperature [Monitor]
> MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
> PCH Temperature [Monitor]
> T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
> DIMM.2 Sensor 1 Temperature [Monitor]
> DIMM.2 Sensor 2 Temperature [Monitor]
> Water In T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
> Water Out T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
> CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
> CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
> High Amp Fan Speed [Monitor]
> W_PUMP+ Speed [Monitor]
> AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
> Flow Rate [Monitor]
> CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
> 3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
> 5V Voltage [Monitor]
> 12V Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
> CPU Fan Step Up [0 sec]
> CPU Fan Step Down [0 sec]
> CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
> CPU Fan Profile [Turbo]
> Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Chassis Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> High Amp Fan Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> WATER PUMP+ Control [Disabled]
> AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
> CPU Temperature LED Switch [Enabled]
> Firmware Configuration [Test]
> Type C Support [Platform-POR]
> Fast Boot [Enabled]
> Next Boot after AC Power Loss [Normal Boot]
> Boot Logo Display [Enabled]
> POST Delay Time [3 sec]
> Bootup NumLock State [On]
> Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
> Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
> Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
> Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
> Boot Sector (MBR/GPT) Recovery Policy [Local User Control]
> Next Boot Recovery Action [Skip]
> Launch CSM [Disabled]
> OS Type [Other OS]
> AMI Native NVMe Driver Support [Enabled]
> Setup Animator [Disabled]
> Load from Profile [1]
> Profile Name [46001717]
> Save to Profile [1]
> DIMM Slot Number [DIMM_A1]
> Download & Install ARMOURY CRATE app [Enabled]
> Bus Interface [PCIEX16_1]


No Aida 64 memory benchmark?


----------



## Gen.

@Nizzen I have old Windows 10 and a lot of garbage, I need to reinstall


----------



## SunnyStefan

Gen. said:


> @*Nizzen* I have old Windows 10 and a lot of garbage, I need to reinstall


An old Windows install with bloat typically increases your latency in Aida 64 (Read / Write / Copy aren't impacted as much in my experience).
Do you have any headroom to increase your CPU's cache frequency? 4600mhz is fairly conservative, if you bump that up, and run the Aida 64 benchmark in safe mode, you might score below 34ns for latency.


----------



## Gen.

SunnyStefan said:


> An old Windows install with bloat typically increases your latency in Aida 64 (Read / Write / Copy aren't impacted as much in my experience).
> Do you have any headroom to increase your CPU's cache frequency? 4600mhz is fairly conservative, if you bump that up, and run the Aida 64 benchmark in safe mode, you might score below 34ns for latency.


Give me 9900k with 5300/5000 and pure windows 10 and I will do ~ 32.5-33.5 ns


----------



## Gen.

New results! RFC=280.


----------



## Imprezzion

Heh yeah. I noticed this as well. If I bench AIDA on a normal boot with all the game launchers, discord and such fired up I get 37.5-37.9 latency. In safe mode that goes down to 35.8-36.0 lol.

Then again, my Windows is running perfectly fine, just updated to 20H1 with nVidia developer drivers and my game performance FPS and frametime wise is absolutely perfect so I'm personally not reinstalling any time soon haha.

If I go for my bench clocks for the 9900k at 5.3/4.9 it drops another full 1ns but that clock isn't stable enough to game on lol. I might be able to get 5.2/4.8 stable now that I cleaned my rad and used Conductonaut in stead of PK-3 which saved me another 3-4c load but still. On 5.1/4.8 I'm already hitting 88-90c in Prime95 29.8 AVX enabled small FFT and mid to high 60's in day to day usage so..not much headroom left for 5.2 voltage and temp wise.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Heh yeah. I noticed this as well. If I bench AIDA on a normal boot with all the game launchers, discord and such fired up I get 37.5-37.9 latency. In safe mode that goes down to 35.8-36.0 lol.
> 
> Then again, my Windows is running perfectly fine, just updated to 20H1 with nVidia developer drivers and my game performance FPS and frametime wise is absolutely perfect so I'm personally not reinstalling any time soon haha.
> 
> If I go for my bench clocks for the 9900k at 5.3/4.9 it drops another full 1ns but that clock isn't stable enough to game on lol. I might be able to get 5.2/4.8 stable now that I cleaned my rad and used Conductonaut in stead of PK-3 which saved me another 3-4c load but still. On 5.1/4.8 I'm already hitting 88-90c in Prime95 29.8 AVX enabled small FFT and mid to high 60's in day to day usage so..not much headroom left for 5.2 voltage and temp wise.


Safe mode ya say...
I might have to try for a 33.xx ns 

Edit: Just got home from work and tried safemode to see if the Aida scores were any better.
safemode 36.1 ns
Normal boot 35.0 ns


----------



## SunnyStefan

munternet said:


> Safe mode ya say...
> I might have to try for a 33.xx ns
> 
> Edit: Just got home from work and tried safemode to see if the Aida scores were any better.
> safemode 36.1 ns
> Normal boot 35.0 ns



How weird, I just did a fresh install of Win 10 1909 this weekend and tested Aida after slimming down the OS's running processes/bloat/etc. With a normal boot I consistent score 36-36.2ns, but when I boot in safe mode I score 35.7-35.8ns. My results were consistent across many trials.


----------



## munternet

SunnyStefan said:


> How weird, I just did a fresh install of Win 10 1909 this weekend and tested Aida after slimming down the OS's running processes/bloat/etc. With a normal boot I consistent score 36-36.2ns, but when I boot in safe mode I score 35.7-35.8ns. My results were consistent across many trials.


It might be because of the os I'm running. No background telemetry.
Edit: 1909 ran slower so I put the old 1809 back on a while back.


----------



## Robostyle

Guys, which temperature dependant timings affect the stability in memtest? 
I remember tightening RFC and refresh interval do - but is there anything else?


----------



## Worldwin

Robostyle said:


> Guys, which temperature dependant timings affect the stability in memtest?
> I remember tightening RFC and refresh interval do - but is there anything else?
> 
> And overall, if I have totally stable 1200% HCI memtest while sticks are under 40C, but getting 1-2 errors before 200% when sticks up to 50C - and I'm not using my PC finding a cure versus cancer or covid, so guess I shouldn't worry about it, just forget, it won't affect system, corrupt it, etc, etc..?


Any error is deemed a failure. It will cause silent corruption in the background however slow it may be. Better off figuring out a way to keep the modules cooler.


----------



## reflex75

Robostyle said:


> Guys, which temperature dependant timings affect the stability in memtest?
> I remember tightening RFC and refresh interval do - but is there anything else?
> 
> And overall, if I have totally stable 1200% HCI memtest while sticks are under 40C, but getting 1-2 errors before 200% when sticks up to 50C - and I'm not using my PC finding a cure versus cancer or covid, so guess I shouldn't worry about it, just forget, it won't affect system, corrupt it, etc, etc..?


RAM OC is the most risky!
Not only it can kill your OS, but even worse, it can corrupt your data!
Key point to check RAM stability is temperature, not stress duration.
And almost all parameters that can affect performance (frequency, CL...) can also diminish temperature stability.
It's why booting Linux on USB key is strongly recommended to test RAM (stressapptest).
I am amazed to see so many people confident in their settings just by testing at lower temperature like 40°C.
Sometime with just a little increase stability is gone (silent corruption, then crash), for instance when playing games with a big GPU or during hot weather.
It's like setting a CPU OC stable only under 60°c.
It's possible for benching purpose, but not for daily usage like gaming.
A good stress test is to let your modules temp increase to your target temperature which is the worst case, for instance 55° (lower fans + stress GPU...)
Then optimize your frequency and timings to keep stability until your target.
This means, a memory capable of keeping stability at a higher temperature compare to another with the exact same settings, is consider better, because it has more room for performance.


----------



## Sedril

reflex75 said:


> RAM OC is the most risky!
> Not only it can kill your OS, but even worse, it can corrupt your data!
> Key point to check RAM stability is temperature, not stress duration.
> And almost all parameters that can affect performance (frequency, CL...) can also diminish temperature stability.
> It's why booting Linux on USB key is strongly recommended to test RAM (stressapptest).
> I am amazed to see so many people confident in their settings just by testing at lower temperature like 40°C.
> Sometime with just a little increase stability is gone (silent corruption, then crash), for instance when playing games with a big GPU or during hot weather.
> It's like setting a CPU OC stable only under 60°c.
> It's possible for benching purpose, but not for daily usage like gaming.
> A good stress test is to let your modules temp increase to your target temperature which is the worst case, for instance 55° (lower fans + stress GPU...)
> Then optimize your frequency and timings to keep stability until your target.
> This means, a memory capable of keeping stability at a higher temperature compare to another with the exact same settings, is consider better, because it has more room for performance.


That's actually a really interesting idea... I've always turned my fans up a bit while stress testing...
Although I have extreme cooling in my rig, its the big Thermaltake Core X9 with two 360 rads, separate loops for GPU, CPU, etc... I hadn't really thought of turning everything down to create the most heat for stability of an OC....

I think a lot of people would say they won't be hitting those temps because normal use won't put that much stress on things, and fans / cooling will be at normal levels... But on the idea of extreme stability I think you're on to something here...


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I've been messing around with 10900k and memory for 4k mhz 
Got this pretty stable does any timings look weird/ high-low....
Used aida64 stress test for an hour plus blender opendata full/ real bench/... scores okay


----------



## ThrashZone

Apothysis said:


> tWRWR_dg 8 rather than 4 is the cause. It's common that the Asus-boards auto this (and tRDRD_dg as well sometimes) to values above 4 when pushing frequencies.
> 
> 
> tWRWR_dg and tRDRD_dg above 4 can have an impact as large as 15 GB/s when everything else is tuned. Combine this with auto subtimings and it almost looks like you lost a channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is false. I've told you this once before already. Mode 1 generally sets **** like 74/74/14/14. This is what Mode 2 does for me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It probably does other stuff as well, but mode 2 tries to push RTL/IOL as tight as they can go. If you can't post with Mode 2 you can usually switch to Mode 1 and easy peasy post.


Hi,
Yeah mode 2 sucks 
Tweak 2/ mode 1/ N2 seem to be workable finally tried 4x8gb preset and got ideas what it changed too and made a scrambled egg timings mixture out of all lol 
Seems okay now haven't been able to post and even 0403 bios is working out well on 4k mhz.


----------



## Gen.

In general, 5000 launched with VCCSA = 1.70000V, VCCIO = 1.50000V, but did not enter the system. 4800 pours, 4700 pours, 4666 pours. 4600 worked before, I will check 4600 ............. P.S. IMC betrayed me


----------



## Robostyle

Any advice how can I push dualranks 16GB on a T-board to 4000?


----------



## Jpmboy

Gen. said:


> In general, 5000 launched with VCCSA = 1.70000V, VCCIO = 1.50000V, but did not enter the system. 4800 pours, 4700 pours, 4666 pours. 4600 worked before, I will check 4600 ............. P.S. IMC betrayed me


IMC betrayed you... How?


Robostyle said:


> Any advice how can I push dualranks 16GB on a T-board to 4000?


what board and CPU?


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> It might be because of the os I'm running. No background telemetry.
> Edit: 1909 ran slower so I put the old 1809 back on a while back.


1809 is my favorite build, problem is that some Windows Store games and RDR2 aren't compatible with that build...


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> In general, 5000 launched with VCCSA = 1.70000V, VCCIO = 1.50000V, but did not enter the system. 4800 pours, 4700 pours, 4666 pours. 4600 worked before, I will check 4600 ............. P.S. IMC betrayed me


 @Carillo binned over 20 coffeelake cpu's to find 3 IMC's that will do 4700MHz stable and one that does 5200 cl17 stable out of the whole 20.
I don't know if Carillo comes in any more


----------



## bp7178

munternet said:


> @Carillo binned over 20 coffeelake cpu's to find 3 IMC's that will do 4700MHz stable and one that does 5200 cl17 stable out of the whole 20.
> I don't know if Carillo comes in any more


That makes me feel better with my own results. 5200 CL 17 is pretty epic. I'd love to know the voltages required to pull that off.


----------



## Gen.

munternet said:


> @Carillo binned over 20 coffeelake cpu's to find 3 IMC's that will do 4700MHz stable and one that does 5200 cl17 stable out of the whole 20.
> I don't know if Carillo comes in any more


Unfortunately my memory controller (IMC) is only stable with 4600 MHz RAM...


----------



## Robostyle

Jpmboy said:


> what board and CPU?


M10H(vishay) + 8700K
and 32GB of dualrank b-die.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=352370&stc=1&d=1591443144

And this is 1.1 vIO, 1.13 vSA and 1.425 vDDR


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gen. said:


> In general, 5000 launched with VCCSA = 1.70000V, VCCIO = 1.50000V, but did not enter the system. 4800 pours, 4700 pours, 4666 pours. 4600 worked before, I will check 4600 ............. P.S. IMC betrayed me


I can boot into Windows 5000CL18 with IO=1.6 SA=1.65, after entering the password it will BSOD.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gen. said:


> Unfortunately my memory controller (IMC) is only stable with 4600 MHz RAM...


For B-die my 10900K IMC only does 4600 too, but with 16GB Micron, it will do 4900.


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For B-die my 10900K IMC only does 4600 too, but with 16GB Micron, it will do 4900.


Pleace post Aida 64 memorybench with 4900mhz micron 

Then we can compare with our b-die stuff on 10900k 

Like this 
https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2020_06/4700cl17.jpg.51e35f10f1718ebdd1c91307c2109371.jpg


----------



## Worldwin

Robostyle said:


> M10H(vishay) + 8700K
> and 32GB of dualrank b-die.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=352370&stc=1&d=1591443144
> 
> And this is 1.1 vIO, 1.13 vSA and 1.425 vDDR


https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/releases
Recommend you use this to help with HCl. Its like having premium without paying. Also open source.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

New daily Micron 2x16GB 4800 18-24-42 CR2 on APEX XII


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Pleace post Aida 64 memorybench with 4900mhz micron
> 
> Then we can compare with our b-die stuff on 10900k
> 
> Like this
> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2020_06/4700cl17.jpg.51e35f10f1718ebdd1c91307c2109371.jpg


OFC it is slower than B-die, but it can at least easily hit 4900:thumb:


----------



## Robostyle

Worldwin said:


> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/releases
> Recommend you use this to help with HCl. Its like having premium without paying. Also open source.


Great stuff, thx! 

P.S. Never understood why WPF visuals manage to stutter so much when made by non-MS folk. :/


----------



## Gen.

I got new calibers for the test, they look good for my 11,500 rubles ~ $ 168.

P.S. I started on 4800 in Windows 10, 5000 BIOS (but my IMC is weak), 4266+ 1T no longer start, probably because of A2. I will check them with 2T.


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Nizzen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pleace post Aida 64 memorybench with 4900mhz micron /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> Then we can compare with our b-die stuff on 10900k /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> Like this
> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2020_06/4700cl17.jpg.51e35f10f1718ebdd1c91307c2109371.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> OFC it is slower than B-die, but it can at least easily hit 4900/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Click to expand...

Looks nice 🙂

Tnx


----------



## Gen.

XCallibur RGB 4200 15-15-1T 1.56000VDRAM-1.25000VCCIO-1.30000VCCSA


----------



## ogider

a small timings squeeze for read write.

10900k 5.0/4.8 f4-3200c14d-32gtz
1.52V / SA 1.32 / IO 1.30

2x16GB


----------



## davidm71

ogider said:


> a small timings squeeze for read write.
> 
> 10900k 5.0/4.8 f4-3200c14d-32gtz
> 1.52V / SA 1.32 / IO 1.30
> 
> 2x16GB



Aren’t those voltages high for SA and IO? I also have Gskill TridentZ Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZSW 2 x 16gb dual rank modules and trying to find appropriate SA/IO volts. With XMP turned on and SA/IO set to auto my Asus Apex is auto volting my 9700K to 1.320 for SA and 1.336 for IO. Afraid that’s too many volts for 4.8ghz cpu speed?

Thanks


----------



## Robostyle

ogider said:


> a small timings squeeze for read write.
> 
> 10900k 5.0/4.8 f4-3200c14d-32gtz
> 1.52V / SA 1.32 / IO 1.30
> 
> 2x16GB


So they really DID improve signals and layout on these 490....
Daym, does it really need 1.52V for only 5GHz?! :/
RAS < CL+RP ?




davidm71 said:


> Aren’t those voltages high for SA and IO? I also have Gskill TridentZ Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZSW 2 x 16gb dual rank modules and trying to find appropriate SA/IO volts. With XMP turned on and SA/IO set to auto my Asus Apex is auto volting my 9700K to 1.320 for SA and 1.336 for IO. Afraid that’s too many volts for 4.8ghz cpu speed?
> 
> Thanks





Spoiler






Falkentyne said:


> People need to understand what I/O voltage (VCCIO) and SA Voltage (VCCSA) are and why, when you are overclocking memory, you MUST raise IO/SA voltages,
> and why you should not be too afraid of high IO/SA voltages.
> 
> The IMC is powered by a voltage rail (much like other rails) and there is a relationship between VCCIO and VCCSA, much like there is a relationship between
> AC Loadline and DC Loadline / VRM Loadline.
> 
> One functions are pre-output buffers and the other functions on post output buffers, much like AC Loadline functions on CPU *REQUEST* voltage,
> and VRM Loadline functions on CPU *DELIVERED* voltage (DC Loadline is a prediction of the VR VOUT, used for power measurements, VRM Loadline is the actual vdroop,
> set at intel default and tuned by loadline calibration, etc)....
> 
> So there is a relationship between them, and why IO/SA should be close to each other, much like ACLL and DCLL should match each other also.
> Although VCCIO is a special case since it also drives the shared L3 cache, and this gets even more tricky because the IMC controls hyperthreading,
> and hyperthreaded CPU cores function with virtualized instruction registers that are stored in a "L0" or level zero cache--the L0 cache is the
> virtualized instruction register store. Also this is why at higher memory speeds, you often need to increase CPU VCORE to keep your CPU stable, or increase IO/SA, or your CPU hyperthreading
> will be unstable...does this make sense?
> 
> Have any of you ever wondered why you don't usually get CPU Cache L0 errors if hyperthreading is disabled? And no System Service Exceptions, etc---but instead the application crashes
> if your vcore is too low, or you just get 0x101 (Clock watchdog) or 0x124 (WHEA uncorrectable) BSOD's? Well there you go...
> 
> So there is no Intel spec limit on VCCIO, but VCCSA has a 1.52v limit. Same as Vcore (without VRM Serial VID offset mode enabled, which is VRM command 33h, an IMPV8 command),
> But you see, 1.520v VID is based on default loadlines being respected (In other words, Vdroop is GOOD, boys), and then the -1.6mv / amp curve (9900k) or -1.1mv /A for 10900k etc...
> So as amps go up, the VID goes down...etc etc....so 245 amps on 10900k becomes 1.250v load voltage...
> Although I am not sure how the 1.720v VID limit for offset mode functions (command 33h allows up to 200mv of higher VID)---maybe this is for sub-zero crowd...I know nothing about this...
> 
> Anyway, even if you still think 1.520v with max vdroop (intel spec) is still bad, you can't do anything about it anyway, because AC Loadline (e.g., default AC Loadline like used on H chip series laptops) of 1.1 mOhms *WILL* Boost the VID up to 1.520v anyway and not even tell you. Because AC Loadline will boost base VID (You can find this at idle---set AC/DC Loadline to 0.01 mOhms first, boot windows and look at HWinfo64),
> up depending on current, like this:
> 
> Vcore = vCPU + (ACLL mOhms * Amps). before vdroop. So if your vCPU is 1.210v at idle @ 30C, you try to draw a 245 amp Prime95 load
> in offset mode with +0mv (or Auto or adaptive vcore with +0mv offset), your AC Loadline will ASK FOR A VOLTAGE FROM THE VRM of:
> 
> 1210mv + (245 * 1.1 mOhm) =1479mv or 1.479v IF YOUR CPU IS AT 30C. So the CPU will ask for 1.479v from VRM at 30C. At 80C this will be higher (vCPU rises higher as temp rises, 1.55mv every C, or -1.55mv every C, starting at 100C and going down, at x52 multiplier I think) --probably 1.520v if VRM command 33h is off, because the VID cap will be 1.520v max. And this is intel spec so no need to be so scared.
> 
> But this is only half of the formula. You forgot about VRM Loadline.
> VRM Loadline of 1.1 mOhms is intel spec also, same as ACLL:
> So now you have vdroop to bring the voltage back down:
> 1.1 mOhm * 245A.....=269mv of vdroop....
> 
> 1520mv - 269mv = 1.250v....so your CPU is at 1.250v max safe voltage at 245A...intel spec.
> THIS IS WHY HAVING NO VDROOP IS BAD...IF YOU HAD NO VDROOP WITH THIS SPEC YOU WOULD BE 1.520V LOAD @ 245A....SEE ?
> 
> 
> But let's go to VCCSA with this.
> 
> As you can see you can't destroy your System Agent by using no vdroop at 1.520v Bios set voltage, like you can your CPU, because some fool thought no vdroop is good, when you are violating Intel's loadline spec and generating terrible transient ripple (read: https://elmorlabs.com/index.php/2019-09-05/vrm-load-line-visualized/ )
> 
> Because there is no loadline specification for VCCSA for you to destroy anyway. So you are not insta-breaking your IMC by using 1.50v system agent.
> VCCIO is similar.
> 
> Now think of CPU scaling here and that VCCIO and VCCSA are signal power rails...
> Let's say your CPU needs:
> 
> 1.250v for 5 ghz core
> 1.450v for 5 ghz ring ratio
> 1.55-1.60v for 5 ghz DDR RAM ratio...
> 1.40v VCCSA for 4400 mhz DDR RAM
> 1.65v VCCSA for 5 ghz DDR RAM
> 
> IO and SA are affected too so you may need 1.4v+ for 4400 mhz +. See?
> This is normal. And there is also a frequency point where the voltage you need to run faster frequency gets more steep
> 
> Like:
> 1.012v for 4.7 ghz
> 1.043v for 4.8 ghz
> 1.083v for 4.9 ghz
> 1.124v for 5.0 ghz
> 1.180v for 5.1 ghz
> 1.235v for 5.2 ghz
> 1.335v for 5.3 ghz....
> 
> The same thing happens with memory frequency, just not so sharp. But DDR 4400 + requires scaling IO/SA too. But not as sharp scaling for DDR voltage etc.
> Hope you guys will understand this.


----------



## ogider

Robostyle said:


> So they really DID improve signals and layout on these 490....
> Daym, does it really need 1.52V for only 5GHz?! :/
> RAS < CL+RP ?


1.52 is for ddr4 V
CPU is 1.234V prime 95 stable. still fare from good one.


----------



## Robostyle

ogider said:


> 1.52 is for ddr4 V
> CPU is 1.234V prime 95 stable. still fare from good one.


oh, I see
Have you done RTT, or just pushed the desired set with only timings tweaked?


----------



## ogider

Well..I put here some work but not checked all possible combinations..just some basic ones.
best for me is 80 for all...or 80 for D0 and 120 for D1


----------



## davidm71

Robostyle said:


> So they really DID improve signals and layout on these 490....
> Daym, does it really need 1.52V for only 5GHz?! :/
> RAS < CL+RP ?


So I won't fry my cpu by setting VCCIO/SA both to 1.3v because according to Falkentyne (respect) no droop and no voltage compensation so what you see is what you get more or less and you'll still have 0.2 volts to spare?!! 

Thanks

PS: Trying to understand a possible stability memory issue with volts not being applied. If anyone can PM me and offer guidance as I rather not clog up this thread with my misconceptions. Thanks


----------



## BlueEarth

Hi guys I think I found out how to get perfect timings for tRAS. However it only worked on x299 since it can go below 28 on the tRAS.
This might be very much wrong but I believe it is correct.

After all of your any other timings stable (like 30000% karhu). Lower tRAS as much as possible while keeping it stable. It can go as low as 17 on my case. Then you just double it which means 34.

Logic:
If tRAS will be corrected by IMC anyway why it is error out below 17? Because the IMC simply prepare another tRAS window if it is not enough and with tRAS set to 16 you only got 32 even after 2nd window.
There is no 3rd window.

Why doubling it if it is stable at 17? Well if my memory is in the edge of instability (means almost stable but not fully stable), I found out that any tRAS below 34 produce the error much faster. It is like free fall below 34. The difference is like error above 16000% vs error below 4000%. So I believe the IMC correction has small impact. Also anything below 34 doesn’t improve bandwidth or latency any further.

In my case it is somehow inline with the tRAS = tCL+tRP+2 theory or coincidentally my tRCD is 2 clock higher than tRP so it could be tCL+tRCD but this is just me trying to see if it match with any formula. Regardless any formula I believe my method above is really definitive.


----------



## Robostyle

davidm71 said:


> So I won't fry my cpu by setting VCCIO/SA both to 1.3v because according to Falkentyne (respect) no droop and no voltage compensation so what you see is what you get more or less and you'll still have 0.2 volts to spare?!!
> 
> Thanks


There's another thing that comes to my mind - is it better to just keep IA loadlines on HW Auto, forget about load line calibration, and leave it just as it is, sometimes correcting VID produced Vcc/vIO/vSA with negative offset?


----------



## Robostyle

I get AC post code when trying to boot with anything higher than 3733-3866 MHz. 
Manual says nothing about this code - any ideas? Is it IMC, DDR?


----------



## Gen.

Hi!
Test Low Voltage.
4500 19-19-2T (03 + 02 DIMM) 1.355VDRAM-1.350VCCIO-1.400VCCSA


----------



## andrvas

Hi,

I received a new set of RAM sticks yesterday, any suggestions as to where to start tuning timings? I've managed to get it stable at 4133 CL 19-24-24-39 with trefi 32000 and trfc at 500. Unable to go tighter on these without errors. CPU is a 9900k and MB is Maximus X Hero (Z370).


----------



## ttnuagmada

Have a couple of noob questions if someone doesn't mind answering. I've got 4x8 Team Dark Pro 3200 CL14 that I'm working on with my 10700K and Maximus XII Formula. So far the settings that I've actually dialed in myself are:

4200
16-17-17-36, 
tRFC: 336
tRRD_L: 6
tRRD_S: 4
tFAW: 16
tREFI: 65535

All other timings are currently on AUTO. I haven't been able to get 16-16-16 stable at anything above 4000 for whatever reason. 

SA/IO are both set at 1.28 and DRAM is set at 1.5v

My questions:

1. I have not really dialed in these voltages at all. I basically just set them as high as im comfortable with 24/7 and plan on finding the limits of the ram at those settings, and then seeing which voltages will come down any once I do. Is this a good strategy? Seems like it would be less of a headache then trying to dial in voltages along with everything else.

2. Is there any sort of recommended order as far as trying to dial in the individual secondary/tertiary timings or does it really matter so long as i'm doing them one at a time?

3. This is sort of related to #2; will secondary/tertiary timing limits be dependent on other secondary/tertiary timings? IE will setting timing A as tight as possible prevent me from setting timing B as tight as possible, or are they all pretty independent and limited by voltage/IC quality?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Imprezzion

ttnuagmada said:


> Have a couple of noob questions if someone doesn't mind answering. I've got 4x8 Team Dark Pro 3200 CL14 that I'm working on with my 10700K and Maximus XII Formula. So far the settings that I've actually dialed in myself are:
> 
> 4200
> 16-17-17-36,
> tRFC: 336
> tRRD_L: 6
> tRRD_S: 4
> tFAW: 16
> tREFI: 65535
> 
> All other timings are currently on AUTO. I haven't been able to get 16-16-16 stable at anything above 4000 for whatever reason.
> 
> SA/IO are both set at 1.28 and DRAM is set at 1.5v
> 
> My questions:
> 
> 1. I have not really dialed in these voltages at all. I basically just set them as high as im comfortable with 24/7 and plan on finding the limits of the ram at those settings, and then seeing which voltages will come down any once I do. Is this a good strategy? Seems like it would be less of a headache then trying to dial in voltages along with everything else.
> 
> 2. Is there any sort of recommended order as far as trying to dial in the individual secondary/tertiary timings or does it really matter so long as i'm doing them one at a time?
> 
> 3. This is sort of related to #2; will secondary/tertiary timing limits be dependent on other secondary/tertiary timings? IE will setting timing A as tight as possible prevent me from setting timing B as tight as possible, or are they all pretty independent and limited by voltage/IC quality?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


They do about the same as mine lol. Also refuse 4200 16-16-16 but do fine on 16-17-17.

#1 perfectly fine strategy. It's what I've done for years with both CPU and RAM. I just test a CPU with a certain voltage for optimal temps then see how far I can push it with that voltage. Also applies to RAM just fine.

#2 Yes, kind of. Start with primary of course, then I personally do tWR and tCWL and the accompanying tWRPRE. Then tFAW 16 and the accompanying timings, then tRTP, after that it's a gamble. I usually start with the tertiary there and last RTL IOL. Auto training should be fine for testing the other timings.

#3 yes, almost all timings are in some way related to others. However, the impact is different. tWR and tCWL directly impact most tertiary timings but in my testing lower tWR with slightly higher tertiary is mostly faster for example.


----------



## JMTH

Working on overclocking my new rig. Does anyone see anything that could be improved?

JMTH--i710700K @5.1/4.8---4200Mhz-C16-16-16-29-2T----1.485vDRAM---VCCCIO 1.3v---SA 1.3v---Stressapptest----1 Hour

CPU: i7-10700k
MB: ASUS Maximus XII Extreme
Memory: F4-4000C19D-32GTZR
Video Card: ROG-STRIX-RTX-2080TI-O11G
Custom watercooled (CPU, Mem, GPU)


----------



## ogider

JMTH said:


> Working on overclocking my new rig. Does anyone see anything that could be improved?



Your IOL is quite high..


----------



## munternet

JMTH said:


> Working on overclocking my new rig. Does anyone see anything that could be improved?
> 
> JMTH--i710700K @5.1/4.8---4200Mhz-C16-16-16-29-2T----1.485vDRAM---VCCCIO 1.3v---SA 1.3v---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> 
> CPU: i7-10700k
> MB: ASUS Maximus XII Extreme
> Memory: F4-4000C19D-32GTZR
> Video Card: ROG-STRIX-RTX-2080TI-O11G
> Custom watercooled (CPU, Mem, GPU)


A couple of things you can try..

tRDRD_dg and tWRWR_dg set to 6 make read write better

RTLs 
58/59/7/7/21/21
57/59/6/7/21/21
57/58/6/6/21/21

Maybe raise tRAS if these make errors.


----------



## ttnuagmada

Imprezzion said:


> They do about the same as mine lol. Also refuse 4200 16-16-16 but do fine on 16-17-17.
> 
> #1 perfectly fine strategy. It's what I've done for years with both CPU and RAM. I just test a CPU with a certain voltage for optimal temps then see how far I can push it with that voltage. Also applies to RAM just fine.
> 
> #2 Yes, kind of. Start with primary of course, then I personally do tWR and tCWL and the accompanying tWRPRE. Then tFAW 16 and the accompanying timings, then tRTP, after that it's a gamble. I usually start with the tertiary there and last RTL IOL. Auto training should be fine for testing the other timings.
> 
> #3 yes, almost all timings are in some way related to others. However, the impact is different. tWR and tCWL directly impact most tertiary timings but in my testing lower tWR with slightly higher tertiary is mostly faster for example.


Thank you for the tips!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Tried a new ram toy.

Currently 4700 17-18-36 @1.55V

IO=1.35V, SA=1.4V


----------



## Jpmboy

JMTH said:


> Working on overclocking my new rig. Does anyone see anything that could be improved?
> 
> JMTH--i710700K @5.1/4.8---4200Mhz-C16-16-16-29-2T----1.485vDRAM---VCCCIO 1.3v---SA 1.3v---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> 
> CPU: i7-10700k
> MB: ASUS Maximus XII Extreme
> Memory: F4-4000C19D-32GTZR
> Video Card: ROG-STRIX-RTX-2080TI-O11G
> Custom watercooled (CPU, Mem, GPU)


check if those are the new samsung b-die 16GB sticks. If they are, they are capable of running 1T at some pretty high frequencies.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi Guys.
Testing new system
4600Mhz CL 17-17-17


----------



## Robostyle

Jpmboy said:


> check if those are the new samsung b-die 16GB sticks. If they are, they are capable of running 1T at some pretty high frequencies.


Can you please elaborate?


----------



## JMTH

JMTH--i710700K @5.1/4.8---4200Mhz-C16-16-16-29-2T----1.475vDRAM---VCCIO 1.23v---SA 1.215v---Stressapptest----1 Hour

Test: stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700



ogider said:


> Your IOL is quite high..


Trying to improve hehe thanks!



munternet said:


> A couple of things you can try..
> 
> tRDRD_dg and tWRWR_dg set to 6 make read write better
> 
> RTLs
> 58/59/7/7/21/21
> 57/59/6/7/21/21
> 57/58/6/6/21/21
> 
> Maybe raise tRAS if these make errors.


tRDRD_dg and tWRWR_dg set to 6 actually make it slower by like 4 ns. 
The best I could get it to boot and pass stressapptest at was 62/63/8/8/21/21, DRAM - 1.475v, VCCIO - 1.23v, SA - 1.215v see picture below.



Jpmboy said:


> check if those are the new samsung b-die 16GB sticks. If they are, they are capable of running 1T at some pretty high frequencies.


I believe they are, I tried to get Thaiphoon Burner to read them but it is giving me "not detect any SPD EEPROM devices...". I tried to get it to boot into 1T but I couldnt get it to work. I only went to DRAM 1.55v max though. Perhaps you have some suggestions?

Thanks again all!


----------



## warbucks

I'm about to throw this new kit(F4-4000C15Q-32GTRS) into the Z490 Formula paired with my 10900k. Giddy up!


----------



## nick name

warbucks said:


> I'm about to throw this new kit(F4-4000C15Q-32GTRS) into the Z490 Formula paired with my 10900k. Giddy up!


Shiny and chrome. Witness me!

Is anyone else running that kit? What do you expect from it? Is it a 1.5V kit? Do kits with 1.5V XMP overclock much higher? 

I really do envy you Intel guys. Memory overclocking is probably the overclocking I enjoy the most.


----------



## ThrashZone

warbucks said:


> I'm about to throw this new kit(F4-4000C15Q-32GTRS) into the Z490 Formula paired with my 10900k. Giddy up!


Hi,
Yeah I got my eyes on a 4400c18 2x16 kit


----------



## warbucks

nick name said:


> Shiny and chrome. Witness me!
> 
> Is anyone else running that kit? What do you expect from it? Is it a 1.5V kit? Do kits with 1.5V XMP overclock much higher?
> 
> I really do envy you Intel guys. Memory overclocking is probably the overclocking I enjoy the most.


I think there may have been someone who posted with this same kit. Correct, XMP is 1.5V. Not sure what to expect really. I'll aim high and see what can be done. Still sussing out the IMC on my 10900k as well. Results incoming, stay tuned.

Come over to the dark side


----------



## munternet

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Hi Guys.
> Testing new system
> 4600Mhz CL 17-17-17


Nice work :thumb:
Those TeamGroup sticks seem ok. 
Is that still the 8086k CPU?


On another note,
they say tCWL should be <= CL
I set my tCWL 1 above CL because CL is 15 and tCWL doesn't seem to like being odd and 1 lower won't boot.
Seems I could have used this information in the past.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

munternet said:


> Nice work :thumb:
> Those TeamGroup sticks seem ok.
> Is that still the 8086k CPU?


Yes, the processor is the same one that I finally scalped


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah I got my eyes on a 4400c18 2x16 kit


There will be 4400C17D 2x16GB 1.5V Kit


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> There will be 4400C17D 2x16GB 1.5V Kit


Hi,
Yeah not sure what happened to that link it was 2x16gb not 2x8gb kit newegg correction :/
But yeah there's a cheaper 4400c19 kit 2x8gb but I was more interested in 2x16gb so your suggestion would be more applicable thanks :thumb:
If you run across a link to the 4400c17 please post it via here or pm 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232621


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah not sure what happened to that link it was 2x16gb not 2x8gb kit newegg correction :/
> But yeah there's a cheaper 4400c19 kit 2x8gb but I was more interested in 2x16gb so your suggestion would be more applicable thanks :thumb:
> If you run across a link to the 4400c17 please post it via here or pm
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232621


If you're going for 2x16gb this is nice set:

*https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232668*

I have the 4400CL19 2x8gb, Will have to test more on the Apex to draw a conclusion. I also have the linked set I posted, recommended.


----------



## ThrashZone

MrTOOSHORT said:


> If you're going for 2x16gb this is nice set:
> 
> *https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232668*
> 
> I have the 4400CL19 2x8gb, Will have to test more on the Apex to draw a conclusion. I also have the linked set I posted, recommended.


Hi,
Thank you yeah 2x16 is what I was interested in and pretty good price too :thumb:
I'm going to chill a little bit and see what new stuff pops up this 3600c16 2x8 I have will be okay for short term torturing


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Thank you yeah 2x16 is what I was interested in and pretty good price too :thumb:
> I'm going to chill a little bit and see what new stuff pops up this 3600c16 2x8 I have will be okay for short term torturing


Yes, NP at all. So you know, those sticks are all black like your 4x8gb sticks. The pic makes them look dark gray.

I have been trying to find this set:

*https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/blm2k16g44c19u4b*

No where to be found. I think they are Rev-E micron. Some good stuff. The little bother 4000MHz CL18 1.35v is around though that does good clocks, but it's alot more expensive than the G. Skill kit.


----------



## ThrashZone

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Yes, NP at all. So you know, those sticks are all black like your 4x8gb sticks. The pic makes them look dark gray.
> 
> I have been trying to find this set:
> 
> *https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/blm2k16g44c19u4b*
> 
> No where to be found. I think they are Rev-E micron. Some good stuff. The little bother 4000MHz CL18 1.35v is around though that does good clocks, but it's alot more expensive than the G. Skill kit.


Hi,
What's that new set of corsair you just got ?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> What's that new set of corsair you just got ?



this set:


*https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236524?&quicklink=true*

Not an RGB guy, but on these sticks they look great to me. Software is great too.



 EDIT:

forgot to mention you can turn off the LEDS if they annoy you.


----------



## ThrashZone

MrTOOSHORT said:


> this set:
> 
> *https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236524?&quicklink=true*
> 
> Not an RGB guy, but on these sticks they look great to me. Software is great too.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> forgot to mention you can turn off the LEDS if they annoy you.


Hi,
Very unlike corsair to have an inexpensive kit 
So I had to check on the same but 4000c19 2x16 kit and yet 510.us lol that's about right for corsair 

So far that 4000c19 2x16gb kit you posted is looking pretty good at this point black is  too


----------



## BlueEarth

ThrashZone said:


> MrTOOSHORT said:
> 
> 
> 
> this set:
> 
> *https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236524?&quicklink=true*
> 
> Not an RGB guy, but on these sticks they look great to me. Software is great too.
> 
> Â EDIT:
> 
> forgot to mention you can turn off the LEDS if they annoy you.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> Very unlike corsair to have an inexpensive kit
> So I had to check on the same but 4000c19 2x16 kit and yet 510.us lol that's about right for corsair /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> So far that 4000c19 2x16gb kit you posted is looking pretty good at this point black is /forum/images/smilies/cool.gif too /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

I have that exact kit (4000c19).
Not easy to oc. Stable at 4000 16-18-16-34 @1.45v 30000% karhu. It doesn’t scale past 1.45v as far as my testing with multiple different system and platform (mainstream and HEDT). Also runs quite hot.


----------



## ducegt

This an Apex IX/Z270 board modded with an Apex X/Z370 BIOS + hardware mod to run with 9th gen CPUs. It felt strange throwing down $530 + tax for a 9900K in June of 2020, but I snagged the Apex for $40 openbox and after a $60 rebate. I couldn't resist modding it and replacing the 7700K that I sold along with my previous Z270 board. Anyway, memory is a 3600CL15 TridentZ kit I bought in January 2017. Using Raja's 4133 [email protected] 4300 with a few changes; 2T, tCWL 18. RTL init 62 and 15/15 offsets. I think the CPU had a batch # of April 2020 and it's topping out at 4.9 all cores LLC6 1.245 in BIOS (actual 1.28-1296) and ran RealBench 2.56 for 8 hours without throttling last night though it was pretty close to hitting Tjmax with my Corsair H115i 280mm AIO. The RAM test tool was worth the $. Thanks to everyone who shared the good word.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah not sure what happened to that link it was 2x16gb not 2x8gb kit newegg correction :/
> But yeah there's a cheaper 4400c19 kit 2x8gb but I was more interested in 2x16gb so your suggestion would be more applicable thanks :thumb:
> If you run across a link to the 4400c17 please post it via here or pm
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232621


They are just announced, so probably be released on market in few weeks. I will keep an eye on it.

Currently I am running Micron 2x16GB. I am pretty satisfied with it


----------



## Ivan B.

Hi, I have a question. I have DDR4 4000MHz CL17. I try 4200MHz CL17, but still errors. Is there any reason to improve performance? I would be interested in your test in a game like Total War: WARHAMMER II. Please take a game performance test and upload to youtube. Thank you

My test with GTX 1070 



.


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> They are just announced, so probably be released on market in few weeks. I will keep an eye on it.
> 
> Currently I am running Micron 2x16GB. I am pretty satisfied with it


Hi,
This set ?
https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164165



BlueEarth said:


> I have that exact kit (4000c19).
> Not easy to oc. Stable at 4000 16-18-16-34 @1.45v 30000% karhu. It doesn’t scale past 1.45v as far as my testing with multiple different system and platform (mainstream and HEDT). Also runs quite hot.


Hi,
Thanks good to know


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> This set ?
> https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164165



Yup this it is. I've seen people running 5200 on x570.

Corsair has a 2x16GB 5000 set I believe they uses the same die as Micron Max 4000.


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup this it is. I've seen people running 5200 on x570.
> 
> Corsair has a 2x16GB 5000 set I believe they uses the same die as Micron Max 4000.


Hi,
Amazon has some 
https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Ballistix-Desktop-Gaming-BLM2K16G40C18U4B/dp/B083TSHGFL


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Amazon has some
> https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Ballistix-Desktop-Gaming-BLM2K16G40C18U4B/dp/B083TSHGFL


Seems a long time to restock. I'll grab one if that is in stock.


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Seems a long time to restock. I'll grab one if that is in stock.


Hi,
Even local micro center has it


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Even local micro center has it


Cool. Be sure it is "Ballistic Max". The "Ballistix" model does not have such ram die.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Cool. Be sure it is "Ballistic Max". The "Ballistix" model does not have such ram die.



Hey thanks for that info, I have been eyeing that ram for the past few days. Just wasn't too sure about it.

I might pick up set now.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Hey thanks for that info, I have been eyeing that ram for the past few days. Just wasn't too sure about it.
> 
> I might pick up set now.


Congrats! :specool:


----------



## ThrashZone

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Hey thanks for that info, I have been eyeing that ram for the past few days. Just wasn't too sure about it.
> 
> I might pick up set now.


Hi,
You'll have to take a road trip to Texas to get it from micro center


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Cool. Be sure it is "Ballistic Max". The "Ballistix" model does not have such ram die.


Hi,
Thanks seems so Oops seems not ballistic 


> What's in the Box 2 x 16GB Ballistix MAX DDR4-4000 PC4-32000 CL18 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Module - Black


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You'll have to take a road trip to Texas to get it from micro center


----------



## ThrashZone

MrTOOSHORT said:


>


Hi,
Micro center has it for 420.us but price matches so no biggie 
Even Crucial.com shows 394.us same as amazon does.

Guess we're having a naming clash though not ballistic :/


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Not that sure anymore now as OLDFATSHEEP showed a few pages back 4900MHz Micron is slower than 4700 B-Die. Too bad there isn't more info out there about this Ballistix MAX set. I message Crucial about the 4400MHz 2x16gb big brother set, they said "As we can check at this moment we do not have any Estimated Date of Restock of the Part#BLM2K16G44C19U4B"

I might just see what the 3466MHz 2x16gb Corsairs can do first before pulling the trigger in the 4000MHz MAX. Might just go for the G. Skill 4800MHz 2x8gb gold or chrome set after just to bench with. First world problems...


----------



## ThrashZone

HI,
No results for anything named "ballistic" max so must be old model or something ?


----------



## warbucks

Playing with the new kit. Here's where I'm at so far. Going to aim for higher frequencies next.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

ThrashZone said:


> HI,
> No results for anything named "ballistic" max so must be old model or something ?


I think here:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/28486458-post12645.html



warbucks said:


> Playing with the new kit. Here's where I'm at so far. Going to aim for higher frequencies next.



Show us a pic of the set up, probaly looks pimp.


----------



## ThrashZone

MrTOOSHORT said:


> I think here:
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/28486458-post12645.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show us a pic of the set up, probaly looks pimp.


Hi,
I saw that he didn't post a cpu-z memory page open and so no part number for that set.
Even his system spec's don't state ballistic


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

warbucks said:


> Playing with the new kit. Here's where I'm at so far. Going to aim for higher frequencies next.



I'd be curious to see how high you can go at cas 15 with that kit.


----------



## warbucks

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I saw that he didn't post a cpu-z memory page open and so no part number for that set.
> Even his system spec's don't state ballistic


It's G.Skill b-die, I posted the exact kit a few posts back.


----------



## ThrashZone

warbucks said:


> It's G.Skill b-die, I posted the exact kit a few posts back.


Hi,
I was referring to oldfatsheeps set not yours.


----------



## ttnuagmada

Anyone see anything obvious I should try before I go messing with RTL/IOL?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ttnuagmada said:


> Anyone see anything obvious I should try before I go messing with RTL/IOL?


Maybe try to set tWRWR and tRDRD to 6 and 4


----------



## munternet

ttnuagmada said:


> Anyone see anything obvious I should try before I go messing with RTL/IOL?


I recently tried tightening the RTLs prior to tightening the rest with good results.


----------



## Nizzen

ttnuagmada said:


> Anyone see anything obvious I should try before I go messing with RTL/IOL?


It's obvious that you want higher frequency like 4600 to get more bandwidth 

4200mhz is so year 2017


----------



## ttnuagmada

Nizzen said:


> It's obvious that you want higher frequency like 4600 to get more bandwidth
> 
> 4200mhz is so year 2017


I couldnt even get 4266 to POST at 18-20-20 for whatever reason.


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> They are just announced, so probably be released on market in few weeks. I will keep an eye on it.
> 
> Currently I am running Micron 2x16GB. I am pretty satisfied with it


Hi,
Yeah this should be some wild stuff I'll just hold off that 4000c18 2x16 for 400.us for now.

https://www.gskill.com/community/15...7-Memory-Kits-with-High-Capacity-16GB-Modules


----------



## Imprezzion

Hmm, interesting. I've been running 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T with manual secondaries and tertiary for a while now and while it did pass 1100% 12GB coverage on HCI as well as GSAT for 2 hours straight it's not entirely stable so it seems.

I've had some wierd random crash to desktops in games, particularly when closing / quitting games and I've seen my Chrome crash once or twice. 

I didn't know what caused it at first but I decided to load my old RAM OC profile at 4133-17-17-17-34-320-2T at way lower voltages and the crashes are gone now.

Wierd thing is, I don't even run a very high tREFI on 4200 (32600) but I do on 4133 (65xxx). I kinda expected it to be tREFI related..

Now I'm thinking tRAS 28 with 280 tRFC might be a little too aggressive but shouldn't that have shown up as unstable in HCI/GSAT?


----------



## SuperMumrik

To low SA causes CTD regardless of gsat/hci.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah this should be some wild stuff I'll just hold off that 4000c18 2x16 for 400.us for now.
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/community/15...7-Memory-Kits-with-High-Capacity-16GB-Modules


That 4400C17D kit should be fun to play with  The only thing I am concerning is the heat since this dual rank kit uses 1.5V. Should be used with some fans.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That 4400C17D kit should be fun to play with  The only thing I am concerning is the heat since this dual rank kit uses 1.5V. Should be used with some fans.


Does anyone know when these new z490 ram kits will be available to be purchased?


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> I recently tried tightening the RTLs prior to tightening the rest with good results.


that's a very snappy latency! For a gaming rig, bandwidth means little, it's latency that can kick things up a notch, assuming the overall system DPCs are low. :thumb:


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Hi. Was running karhu testing [email protected]

2 hours 40 minutes into the test I get a CPU internal error in hwinfo64, but karhu didn't error. This is just a simple case of add another tick of vcore right?


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Hmm, interesting. I've been running 4200 16-17-17-28-280-2T with manual secondaries and tertiary for a while now and while it did pass 1100% 12GB coverage on HCI as well as GSAT for 2 hours straight it's not entirely stable so it seems.
> 
> I've had some wierd random crash to desktops in games, particularly when closing / quitting games and I've seen my Chrome crash once or twice.
> 
> I didn't know what caused it at first but I decided to load my old RAM OC profile at 4133-17-17-17-34-320-2T at way lower voltages and the crashes are gone now.
> 
> Wierd thing is, I don't even run a very high tREFI on 4200 (32600) but I do on 4133 (65xxx). I kinda expected it to be tREFI related..
> 
> Now I'm thinking tRAS 28 with 280 tRFC might be a little too aggressive but shouldn't that have shown up as unstable in HCI/GSAT?


I've had that myself with the CTD and had to raise the VCCSA like @SuperMumrik suggested.
Never made much if any actual gains by lowering tRAS or tRFC myself, but yours might be different.



Jpmboy said:


> that's a very snappy latency! For a gaming rig, bandwidth means little, it's latency that can kick things up a notch, assuming the overall system DPCs are low. :thumb:


I've actually noticed that the lower frequencies can seem/feel.....snappier than the higher ones in windows/BFV. I'm leaning toward frequencies at the bottom of the voltage curve where stability is very forgiving to a larger range of movement in the variables without detriment. I have the Gskills in now which run 4500-17 or 4400 cl16 but I might have to re-install the viper steels and drop the frequency for beter latency....decisions decisions
What is a good way to test DPCs?


----------



## ThrashZone

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Does anyone know when these new z490 ram kits will be available to be purchased?


Hi,
3rd quarter which is beginning of July thru September.
I'm sure the price will be stupid high so it's unlikely event for me personally but worth holding off on memory purchases until it does drop.
500.??? 4400c17 2x16
395. for 4000c18 2x16
280. for 4000c19 2x16


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 3rd quarter which is beginning of July thru September.
> I'm sure the price will be stupid high so it's unlikely event for me personally but worth holding off on memory purchases until it does drop.
> 500.??? 4400c17 2x16
> 395. for 4000c18 2x16
> 280. for 4000c19 2x16


Yeah i might hold off on memory for now. I'm itching for a new kit to play with though ><. I think i've pretty much squeezed out as much as I can get from my current kit. Hoping to find a 4x8gb kit or two 2x8gb kits that will scale with good rtls from cl14-4000 through cl15-4500. i'm guessing the new 2x8gb cl17 4400 1.5v kits could probably do cl15 4400 @ 1.6v daily.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yeah not sure I want to spend 450.us on another set of ddr4 frankly 
280. +tax sounds better and just throw a fan on the stuff and save 150.00


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah not sure I want to spend 450.us on another set of ddr4 frankly
> 280. +tax sounds better and just throw a fan on the stuff and save 150.00


280 + tax for what?


----------



## ThrashZone

XGS-Duplicity said:


> 280 + tax for what?


Hi,
Refer back to the list I posted.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Refer back to the list I posted.


oooo i thought you were referring to a kit you were thinking of buying now before those were released, gotcha.

i really want something to play with now. It's either a new kit or an apex xi, but I can't find a new apex xi in the states at a realistic price.


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Yeah i might hold off on memory for now. I'm itching for a new kit to play with though ><. I think i've pretty much squeezed out as much as I can get from my current kit. Hoping to find a 4x8gb kit or two 2x8gb kits that will scale with good rtls from cl14-4000 through cl15-4500. i'm guessing the new 2x8gb cl17 4400 1.5v kits could probably do cl15 4400 @ 1.6v daily.


I have the g.skill 4000c15 kit. 4x8GB. It's pretty good, but any Patriot viper 4400c19 is better on average. Viper tend to scale better with voltage. G.skill don't like more than 1.57-1.58v

My 4000c15 does 4600c17 tweaked, but cant't go any further on "normal" temperatures. My Team xtreem does 4700c17 easy. Vipers does 4800c17, and some good bins does 5000+c17. Looks like the pcb is just better on Vipers?

Even Adata XPG Spectrix D60G DDR4 4133mhz looks to be stronger than many high end g-skill kits. At least on high frequency.

People from "clock em up" Thailand is repporting that g.skill "sux" compare to Patriot viper, and they have binned hundreds? of ddr4 kits.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> I have the g.skill 4000c15 kit. 4x8GB. It's pretty good, but any Patriot viper 4400c19 is better on average. Viper tend to scale better with voltage. G.skill don't like more than 1.57-1.58v
> 
> My 4000c15 does 4600c17 tweaked, but cant't go any further on "normal" temperatures. My Team xtreem does 4700c17 easy. Vipers does 4800c17, and some good bins does 5000+c17. Looks like the pcb is just better on Vipers?
> 
> Even Adata XPG Spectrix D60G DDR4 4133mhz looks to be stronger than many high end g-skill kits. At least on high frequency.
> 
> People from "clock em up" Thailand is repporting that g.skill "sux" compare to Patriot viper, and they have binned hundreds? of ddr4 kits.


Can the gskill cl15-4000 kit do cl15-4400 at 1.6v or less? I thought about purchasing the vipers, but then I read that they don't have temperature sensors and they don't have 4x8gb kits for sale, only 2x8gb so that doesn't work for my current setup since i'm on 4x8gb.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Can the gskill cl15-4000 kit do cl15-4400 at 1.6v or less? I thought about purchasing the vipers, but then I read that *they don't have temperature sensors* and they don't have 4x8gb kits for sale, only 2x8gb so that doesn't work for my current setup since i'm on 4x8gb.


I found this a bit annoying but I'm water cooled so can get away with it. If I was on air I would be worried especially since I use up to 1.7 DRAM volts.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Can the gskill cl15-4000 kit do cl15-4400 at 1.6v or less? I thought about purchasing the vipers, but then I read that they don't have temperature sensors and they don't have 4x8gb kits for sale, only 2x8gb so that doesn't work for my current setup since i'm on 4x8gb.


Probably no way. My 4800C18d only does 4266 Cl15 flat @1.57V


----------



## ducegt

munternet said:


> What is a good way to test DPCs?


I believe this is what you're looking for.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon


----------



## Worldwin

Anyone know if the Viper Steel 4400C19 have temperature sensors. They on sale and I am tempted to grab a set.


----------



## munternet

Worldwin said:


> Anyone know if the Viper Steel 4400C19 have temperature sensors. They on sale and I am tempted to grab a set.


Mine don't seem to have temp sensors
They do seem to perform well for the price though and scale with voltage but don't seem to hit as high frequencies as my G.Skill 4400 cl19s but do better latency
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KXLFDL6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## bp7178

Worldwin said:


> Anyone know if the Viper Steel 4400C19 have temperature sensors. They on sale and I am tempted to grab a set.


They do not.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Hey folks, I need some advice for fine tuning.

I'm at [email protected] with 5.25ghz 8c/8t 4.85ghz cache. 35.0ns latency in aida64. I want to keep the 35.0ns latency but i'd like to lower my core multiplier and cache ratio multiplier by 1 to reduce vcore requirements. I know that if I do this, latency will increase to 35.3ns due to slightly lower cache ratio. 

What changes to the timings should I be making here to maintain the same 35.0ns latency but with 5.15hgz 8c/8t and 4.75ghz cache? Basically I need to decrease latency by .3ns so when I boot with 4.75ghz cache it'll still give me 35.0ns.

-trfc is as low as it will go here
-tWR at 9 is unstable
-tcwl doesn't train at 13 or odd numbers at all with this kit no matter the frequency. tcwl @ 12 with increased tWTR_s/l was not stable.
-tried 14-13-13-28 and 14-13-13-29 to decrease latency to make up for the lower cache, 14-13-13-28 unstable, 14-13-13-29/14-13-13-30 doesn't complete training

Here are the timings. RTLs/iols are normally 55/55/57/57 6/6/6/6 for cas14 3900 on this kit with this board, however, in order to stabilize 3933 i had to go with 55/56/57/57 6/7/6/6. Not sure if this information is relevant here or not but i figure it is worth mentioning in case any of it needs to be changed to achieve my goal of maintaining 35.0ns at 4.75ghz cache ratio. Not sure what my options are or where to go from here.


----------



## AeonMW2

I'm seems to be stuck with memory OC and don't know what's my problem

i9-10900K 5.1 all core / 4.6 cache (vcore 1.25 under heavy load, ~1.3 idle)
Viper Steel 4400 C19 (2x8 kit)
Gigabyte z490 Vision G

I can run up to 3800 MT/s with XMP timings just fine. 
I can run 3800 MT/s with manual tight timings just fine. (3800 15-16-16-33 tRC 46 tCWL 14 tFAW 16 tWR 12 tRTP 10). vDRAM 1.45, VCCIO/VCCSA 1.23

But as soon as I try to go for 4400, I'm unstable no matter what.
I have tried XMP 4400 / manual 4400 with very loose timigs. I have tried IO/SA voltages up to 1.36v (doesn't seem to be IO/SA issue, right? 1.36 is already pretty high). No success.

I can boot to windows with 4400 XMP quite easily. I can pass memtest helper 300% easy too (so it tells me memory itself is fine and problem somewhere else?)
But i'm always loosing threads in prime95 blend with rounding errors. Also PC just randomly freezes even without much stress (while browsing for example).

Where should I move next?


----------



## munternet

AeonMW2 said:


> I'm seems to be stuck with memory OC and don't know what's my problem
> 
> i9-10900K 5.1 all core / 4.6 cache (vcore 1.25 under heavy load, ~1.3 idle)
> Viper Steel 4400 C19 (2x8 kit)
> Gigabyte z490 Vision G
> 
> I can run up to 3800 MT/s with XMP timings just fine.
> I can run 3800 MT/s with manual tight timings just fine. (3800 15-16-16-33 tRC 46 tCWL 14 tFAW 16 tWR 12 tRTP 10). vDRAM 1.45, VCCIO/VCCSA 1.23
> 
> But as soon as I try to go for 4000 or higher, I'm unstable no matter what. Also my instability at 4000 and 4400 looks the same.
> I have tried XMP 4400/ XMP 4266 / manual 4000 with very loose timigs. I have tried IO/SA voltages up to 1.36v (doesn't seem to be IO/SA issue, right? 1.36 is already pretty high). No success.
> 
> I can boot to windows with 4400 XMP quite easily. I can pass memtest helper 300% easy too (so it tells me memory itself is fine and problem somewhere else?)
> But i'm always loosing threads in prime95 blend with rounding errors. Also PC just randomly freezes even without much stress (while browsing for example).
> 
> Where should I move next?


Those sticks can handle a lot more vDRAM than 1.45 (maybe 1.5 to 1.55 for your settings) as long as you have adequate cooling and mine don't need over 1.35ish VCCSA or 1.3 VCCIO although I'm on the earlier Gene XI.
Higher vDRAM can mean you are able to lower VCCSA, but test as you go to see how your setup behaves.
If you are sure your CPU is stable first you could try using TM5 or GSAT to find errors quickly.


----------



## Nizzen

AeonMW2 said:


> I'm seems to be stuck with memory OC and don't know what's my problem
> 
> i9-10900K 5.1 all core / 4.6 cache (vcore 1.25 under heavy load, ~1.3 idle)
> Viper Steel 4400 C19 (2x8 kit)
> Gigabyte z490 Vision G
> 
> I can run up to 3800 MT/s with XMP timings just fine.
> I can run 3800 MT/s with manual tight timings just fine. (3800 15-16-16-33 tRC 46 tCWL 14 tFAW 16 tWR 12 tRTP 10). vDRAM 1.45, VCCIO/VCCSA 1.23
> 
> But as soon as I try to go for 4000 or higher, I'm unstable no matter what. Also my instability at 4000 and 4400 looks the same.
> I have tried XMP 4400/ XMP 4266 / manual 4000 with very loose timigs. I have tried IO/SA voltages up to 1.36v (doesn't seem to be IO/SA issue, right? 1.36 is already pretty high). No success.
> 
> I can boot to windows with 4400 XMP quite easily. I can pass memtest helper 300% easy too (so it tells me memory itself is fine and problem somewhere else?)
> But i'm always loosing threads in prime95 blend with rounding errors. Also PC just randomly freezes even without much stress (while browsing for example).
> 
> Where should I move next?


1.36 SA is not high LOL 

1.8v SA is high 

There is no probelm running 1.5v SA 24/7 on z490  Even on z390 there has not been any problems.

Same as vdram. 1.6v is no problem as long it is cool enough. b-die like under 45c. Other IC's I don't know. Using b-die only.


----------



## warbucks

Nizzen said:


> 1.36 SA is not high LOL
> 
> 1.8v SA is high
> 
> There is no probelm running 1.5v SA 24/7 on z490  Even on z390 there has not been any problems.
> 
> Same as vdram. 1.6v is no problem as long it is cool enough. b-die like under 45c. Other IC's I don't know. Using b-die only.


This here. I run 1.4v SA on my Z490 Formula for 5.2Ghz(10900k)/4.8Ghz cache and [email protected]


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Errr nm


----------



## munternet

A couple of hours of BFV and the old G.Skills didn't even see 35°c 
Good to have them back in and being able to read temps again after the Viper steels


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

You know the Vipers wont get over 40'C doing what you're doing to the G. Skills fan wise. So what's the problem with the Vipers having no temp sensors in your opinion?


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> I've had that myself with the CTD and had to raise the VCCSA like @SuperMumrik suggested.
> Never made much if any actual gains by lowering tRAS or tRFC myself, but yours might be different.
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually noticed that the lower frequencies can seem/feel.....snappier than the higher ones in windows/BFV. I'm leaning toward frequencies at the bottom of the voltage curve where stability is very forgiving to a larger range of movement in the variables without detriment. I have the Gskills in now which run 4500-17 or 4400 cl16 but I might have to re-install the viper steels and drop the frequency for beter latency....decisions decisions
> *What is a good way to test DPCs*?


download Latency Monitor. Also, in the SYSInternals suite of programs, there is a DPC monitor. LatMon is the easiest. :thumb:


----------



## munternet

MrTOOSHORT said:


> You know the Vipers wont get over 40'C doing what you're doing to the G. Skills fan wise. So what's the problem with the Vipers having no temp sensors in your opinion?


No real problem now, but in summer it's nice to know temps, especially if there is a problem.
I do like the Vipers, especially for their latencies and I might put them back in soon. I had to make some different profiles with the G.Skills and save to a USB stick because I couldn't get anything to train on the Vipers in the 4400 and 4500 range. The Vipers will boot on the saved G.Skill profiles.



Jpmboy said:


> download Latency Monitor. Also, in the SYSInternals suite of programs, there is a DPC monitor. LatMon is the easiest. :thumb:


Cheers mate, will look into it


----------



## Robostyle

What does mean "AC" postcode on asus mb? 
It is definitely RAM or MC, but I still don't get it...


----------



## Thebc2

Hey all, recently picked up a 4x8GB g.skill 4266cl17 kit F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR.

Running them on an Asus Maximus XII Hero and 10900k. Run great at XMP, wondering whether any one had any tips for extracting a bit more out of them for a memory overclocking noob who wants to learn more

From my testing they are outperforming my old 2x16gb g.skill 3200c14 kit by a decent margin at stock XMP settings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bp7178

munternet said:


> A couple of hours of BFV and the old G.Skills didn't even see 35°c
> Good to have them back in and being able to read temps again after the Viper steels


Since I put EK blocks on my Team Group that didn't have temp sensors either, I've been using an infrared thermometer on the CPU side, which is also the chip side, of the RAM stick.


----------



## ttnuagmada

Thebc2 said:


> Hey all, recently picked up a 4x8GB g.skill 4266cl17 kit F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR.
> 
> Running them on an Asus Maximus XII Hero and 10900k. Run great at XMP, wondering whether any one had any tips for extracting a bit more out of them for a memory overclocking noob who wants to learn more
> 
> From my testing they are outperforming my old 2x16gb g.skill 3200c14 kit by a decent margin at stock XMP settings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I recommend this guide:

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Thebc2 said:


> Hey all, recently picked up a 4x8GB g.skill 4266cl17 kit F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR.
> 
> Running them on an Asus Maximus XII Hero and 10900k. Run great at XMP, wondering whether any one had any tips for extracting a bit more out of them for a memory overclocking noob who wants to learn more
> 
> From my testing they are outperforming my old 2x16gb g.skill 3200c14 kit by a decent margin at stock XMP settings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


4500 17-17-35 tRFC=320 tREFI=65535 tFAW=30 tRDRD sg=4 tWRWR sg=4

VDIMM=1.5 IO=1.45 SA=1.4

Goodluck


----------



## Thebc2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 4500 17-17-35 tRFC=320 tREFI=65535 tFAW=30 tRDRD sg=4 tWRWR sg=4
> 
> 
> 
> VDIMM=1.5 IO=1.45 SA=1.4
> 
> 
> 
> Goodluck




Thanks will give it a shot!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Thebc2

ttnuagmada said:


> I recommend this guide:
> 
> 
> 
> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md




Bookmarked, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ViTosS

Guys, the fact that I changed my Asus Maximus X Hero to an Asus Maximus XI Apex and my RAM's OC stayed the same as before, but just now I can boot and stress frequencies way higher than before, would that be a problem of my CPU IMC? It's really weird I can't accomplish any other OC stable than my old OC on the Maximus X Hero, [email protected] with tREFI 65534, tWR 12 and tRFC 320, I wasn't able to boot anything over 4000Mhz in X Hero, now I can boot 4500Mhz as far as I tested, but at the same time I can't have anything stable better than the old RAM OC, can't have [email protected] stable, neither [email protected], neither [email protected] and anything that I've tried. CPU IMC is the culprit?

Edit.: I also changed my sig setup but for some reason it's not updating.


----------



## Falkentyne

ViTosS said:


> Guys, the fact that I changed my Asus Maximus X Hero to an Asus Maximus XI Apex and my RAM's OC stayed the same as before, but just now I can boot and stress frequencies way higher than before, would that be a problem of my CPU IMC? It's really weird I can't accomplish any other OC stable than my old OC on the Maximus X Hero, [email protected] with tREFI 65534, tWR 12 and tRFC 320, I wasn't able to boot anything over 4000Mhz in X Hero, now I can boot 4500Mhz as far as I tested, but at the same time I can't have anything stable better than the old RAM OC, can't have [email protected] stable, neither [email protected], neither [email protected] and anything that I've tried. CPU IMC is the culprit?
> 
> Edit.: I also changed my sig setup but for some reason it's not updating.


The board/bios, not the IMC. The Maximus XI Apex is a MUCH better board by far than the X Hero and the XI Apex is a 2 dimm board. 2 dimm boards can overclock memory much higher than 4 dimm slot boards. All the world records are held by 2 dimm boards, like eVGA Dark, M11 / M12 Apex, etc...


----------



## ViTosS

Falkentyne said:


> The board/bios, not the IMC. The Maximus XI Apex is a MUCH better board by far than the X Hero and the XI Apex is a 2 dimm board. 2 dimm boards can overclock memory much higher than 4 dimm slot boards. All the world records are held by 2 dimm boards, like eVGA Dark, M11 / M12 Apex, etc...


So the problem is not the IMC? Is it the board? Really? There is lottery in the board itself? I thought maybe the problem was the RAM sticks or the CPU IMC bin...


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Guys, the fact that I changed my Asus Maximus X Hero to an Asus Maximus XI Apex and my RAM's OC stayed the same as before, but just now I can boot and stress frequencies way higher than before, would that be a problem of my CPU IMC? It's really weird I can't accomplish any other OC stable than my old OC on the Maximus X Hero, [email protected] with tREFI 65534, tWR 12 and tRFC 320, I wasn't able to boot anything over 4000Mhz in X Hero, now I can boot 4500Mhz as far as I tested, but at the same time I can't have anything stable better than the old RAM OC, can't have [email protected] stable, neither [email protected], neither [email protected] and anything that I've tried. CPU IMC is the culprit?
> 
> Edit.: I also changed my sig setup but for some reason it's not updating.


Can you post up the configurator before you tried to change the primaries and put what you tried to change them to? cheers


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Can you post up the configurator before you tried to change the primaries and put what you tried to change them to? cheers


I don't have it saved anymore, but as far as I remember, I tried [email protected] in various voltages (vDRAM and VCCIO/VCCSA) without changing tRFC, tREFI, tWR, also tried [email protected] and [email protected], tRFC, tREFI and tWR always on AUTO, all the rest on AUTO, just primary timings and changing voltages.


----------



## ViTosS

I want to improve my RAM OC and I want to change my setup to fix that in the safest bet possible, if the CPU is the problem I will pick up and 9900k or 9900ks while they are in stock or even change my RAM to that [email protected] 1.35v from GSkill TridentZ no RGB, which is 125 dollars right now on Newegg. I'm considering the CPU IMC is the problem


----------



## ViTosS

This is how it is atm, I was able to reduce voltages from my previous OC on the old board.


----------



## Falkentyne

ViTosS said:


> So the problem is not the IMC? Is it the board? Really? There is lottery in the board itself? I thought maybe the problem was the RAM sticks or the CPU IMC bin...


Again, 2 dimm board vs 4 dimm board. There is a lot of information all over the place about this. Buildzoid's youtube videos, here on this exact thread, everywhere. It's literally all over. Signal integrity is much higher on 2 dimm boards and that goes beyond my real of understanding, sorry.


----------



## ViTosS

Falkentyne said:


> Again, 2 dimm board vs 4 dimm board. There is a lot of information all over the place about this. Buildzoid's youtube videos, here on this exact thread, everywhere. It's literally all over. Signal integrity is much higher on 2 dimm boards and that goes beyond my real of understanding, sorry.


Yes I know 2 dimm vs 4 dimm, I bought Apex XI in order to improve my RAM OC, but all that changed was the possibility of booting at way higher frequencias and maybe reducing voltages compared to X Hero, I was expecting I could improve my RAM OC when I bought this board. The weirdest thing is the possibility of having higher frequencies but none of the ones I tried was stable, even mediocre RAM OC settings for a BDie kit and Apex XI like [email protected] wasn't possible...


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ViTosS said:


> Yes I know 2 dimm vs 4 dimm, I bought Apex XI in order to improve my RAM OC, but all that changed was the possibility of booting at way higher frequencias and maybe reducing voltages compared to X Hero, I was expecting I could improve my RAM OC when I bought this board. The weirdest thing is the possibility of having higher frequencies but none of the ones I tried was stable, even mediocre RAM OC settings for a BDie kit and Apex XI like [email protected] wasn't possible...


have you tried testing different bios revisions?


----------



## ViTosS

XGS-Duplicity said:


> have you tried testing different bios revisions?


Well I'm at the 1502, the latest one, I tried to downgrade to 0903 but couldn't do that inside the BIOS through EZ Flash, so I tried using FlashBack button with the BIOS file in the pendrive, but for some reason I wasn't able to do that, so I switched to the secondary BIOS pressing the BIOS switch button, and it was at BIOS 0021, I tried updating that BIOS to 0903 through EZ Flash inside the BIOS without success, I also tried the OC settings in this BIOS and was having the same problems (errors in HCI MemTest, TM5 and etc) that I was having in 1502.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Well I'm at the 1502, the latest one, I tried to downgrade to 0903 but couldn't do that inside the BIOS through EZ Flash, so I tried using FlashBack button with the BIOS file in the pendrive, but for some reason I wasn't able to do that, so I switched to the secondary BIOS pressing the BIOS switch button, and it was at BIOS 0021, I tried updating that BIOS to 0903 through EZ Flash inside the BIOS without success, I also tried the OC settings in this BIOS and was having the same problems (errors in HCI MemTest, TM5 and etc) that I was having in 1502.


The 1502 BIOS is pretty good for ram overclocking at the frequency range you are looking at.
I suggest getting a safe .CMO file from someone with the same hardware as you and try 4000-15-15-15-35 or similar. It should work pretty easy with the RTLs on auto.
Maybe you could borrow some ram or even buy a cheap set to test? You can never have too much ram 
I can run up a quick .txt file for you to look through but my .CMO won'y match your hardware afaik

Edit: I loosened it off and supplied a text file also


----------



## reflex75

Ram OC = trio OC: CPU IMC + RAM +MB
Apex are made to run +4600 and you can do cold boot so no problem. 
Remains either RAM or CPU.
Try to increase RAM voltage to check if it increases stability. 
If not, only remains your CPU. 
You can play with combo VCCIO/SA voltage but it's tricky and variable from one CPU IMC to another...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ViTosS said:


> Well I'm at the 1502, the latest one, I tried to downgrade to 0903 but couldn't do that inside the BIOS through EZ Flash, so I tried using FlashBack button with the BIOS file in the pendrive, but for some reason I wasn't able to do that, so I switched to the secondary BIOS pressing the BIOS switch button, and it was at BIOS 0021, I tried updating that BIOS to 0903 through EZ Flash inside the BIOS without success, I also tried the OC settings in this BIOS and was having the same problems (errors in HCI MemTest, TM5 and etc) that I was having in 1502.


You need to rename the bios file to "M11A.cap".


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi, guys. There was time and, first of all, the desire to dig into the memory, understating some of the timings of them


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> The 1502 BIOS is pretty good for ram overclocking at the frequency range you are looking at.
> I suggest getting a safe .CMO file from someone with the same hardware as you and try 4000-15-15-15-35 or similar. It should work pretty easy with the RTLs on auto.
> Maybe you could borrow some ram or even buy a cheap set to test? You can never have too much ram
> I can run up a quick .txt file for you to look through but my .CMO won'y match your hardware afaik
> 
> Edit: I loosened it off and supplied a text file also


Thank you for your effort, but like I said, I've tried everything, all the VCCIO/VCCSA and vDRAM possible, AUTO everything, changing just primary timings, nothing changed. I'm considering to buy that kit I said [email protected] 1.35v, but I'm almost sure the problem is the CPU IMC.

Edit.: I maybe try later that txt file, is there a way to load that into BIOS? I saw that you used SVID Auto and I have it DISABLED, but it doesn't have relation with RAM settings right?



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to rename the bios file to "M11A.cap".


Yeah I know, using the renamer that comes with the BIOS file, I was able to downgrade BIOS fine in my old Maximus X Hero, but I remember before switching to Maximus Apex XI I wasn't being able to downgrade doing exact the same methods, also tried 3 different USB pendrives, so I thought the board became faulty, but when I changed to Apex XI I was having the same problem, couldn't downgrade, but to be honest I don't think is a BIOS problem, since I tried the 0021 BIOS and some other before the 1502 (if you downgrade just a few BIOS before you can use EZ Flash inside BIOS, but if the BIOS is too old like 0903, the only way is through BIOS FlashBack button).


----------



## ViTosS

reflex75 said:


> Ram OC = trio OC: CPU IMC + RAM +MB
> Apex are made to run +4600 and you can do cold boot so no problem.
> Remains either RAM or CPU.
> Try to increase RAM voltage to check if it increases stability.
> If not, only remains your CPU.
> You can play with combo VCCIO/SA voltage but it's tricky and variable from one CPU IMC to another...


I've tried increasing it till 1.57v, tried many different VCCIO/VCCSA, the closest to stability I could get was till 30min of TM5, I always had erros in that range, using HCI MemTest I would have the first error in about 100% coverage, about the same 30 minutes stressing.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> I've tried increasing it till 1.57v, tried many different VCCIO/VCCSA, the closest to stability I could get was till 30min of TM5, I always had erros in that range, using HCI MemTest I would have the first error in about 100% coverage, about the same 30 minutes stressing.


What temp are the sticks reaching?


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> What temp are the sticks reaching?


Never exceeding 38-39c, I have a 120mm fan very close to both of the sticks, heat is not a problem.


----------



## Worldwin

Alright can someone gimme some timings to quickly steal for their 4400C19 Viper Steels. Unfortunately the ones I received are straight up worse than the 3200C14 Trident Z i already have. Another note is that XMP straight up won't work but at least I got Amazon.


----------



## Falkentyne

ViTosS said:


> I've tried increasing it till 1.57v, tried many different VCCIO/VCCSA, the closest to stability I could get was till 30min of TM5, I always had erros in that range, using HCI MemTest I would have the first error in about 100% coverage, about the same 30 minutes stressing.


Please disable hyperthreading and then test. Only enable HT after you get full stability with HT disabled. IMC (L0 cache) is very involved in hyperthreading.



Worldwin said:


> Alright can someone gimme some timings to quickly steal for their 4400C19 Viper Steels. Unfortunately the ones I received are straight up worse than the 3200C14 Trident Z i already have. Another note is that XMP straight up won't work but at least I got Amazon.


In what way are they worse exactly? 
The 4400 C19's should be able to do 4000 mhz 17/17/17/39 1T command rate on your board at 1.35v.

Can those trident Z's do that?


----------



## ViTosS

Falkentyne said:


> Please disable hyperthreading and then test. Only enable HT after you get full stability with HT disabled. IMC (L0 cache) is very involved in hyperthreading.
> 
> 
> 
> In what way are they worse exactly?
> The 4400 C19's should be able to do 4000 mhz 17/17/17/39 1T command rate on your board at 1.35v.
> 
> Can those trident Z's do that?


Honestly if I can't leave my CPU with HT on to have RAM OC stable, I prefer to forget RAM OC.

But if you say is related to IMC and if I do that and fix the OC, so the IMC is the cause =)


----------



## Worldwin

Falkentyne said:


> In what way are they worse exactly?
> The 4400 C19's should be able to do 4000 mhz 17/17/17/39 1T command rate on your board at 1.35v.
> 
> Can those trident Z's do that?


The trident Z can do 4000 16 16 16 44 @T2 for 1.45V. Granted tRAS is higher but lets be realistic, the other primaries make up for it. Also I have not optimized this WRT voltage as I was just testing to see if it could do 4000C16. Unfortunately the Z370 Gaming 7 is a total crapshoot. 1T straight up does not work even on JEDEC specs. Putting anyvalue into RTL/IO will be ignored and often be worse than AUTO. For example, @14 14 14 28 3500 auto gives 53/54/6/6. Changing any value sets it to 60/63/13/13.


----------



## Falkentyne

Worldwin said:


> The trident Z can do 4000 16 16 16 44 @T2 for 1.45V. Granted tRAS is higher but lets be realistic, the other primaries make up for it. Also I have not optimized this WRT voltage as I was just testing to see if it could do 4000C16. Unfortunately the Z370 Gaming 7 is a total crapshoot. 1T straight up does not work even on JEDEC specs. Putting anyvalue into RTL/IO will be ignored and often be worse than AUTO. For example, @14 14 14 28 3500 auto gives 53/54/6/6. Changing any value sets it to 60/63/13/13.


Yeah. Gigabyte Bios.
The Z390 Master inherited some same problems, except 1T worked at 3200 and 3333 only. Any higher=boot loop. Neither the 4000 CL19 steel vipers (2x8 GB) nor the 3200 CL14 2x16 GB Gskills would work higher than 3333 1T. (note that the 3200 CL14's worked at 3600 15/15/15/36 1T on the Maximus 12 extreme but were not fully stable but at least it worked).

And the Z490 master had the same problem originally. The steel viper 4000 CL19's would run at 17/17/17/39 1T at 1.35v just fine on the Maximus 12 Extreme, but would boot loop on the Z490 Master, and even 3600 15/15/15/36 or 17/17/17/39 1T would fail, and it didn't matter what the voltages were either. Of course 2T worked instantly.

I just flashed the most recent Z490 Master bios an hour ago, and now 17/17/17/39 1T works at 4000 mhz finally. Well..it loaded windows  But it instantly locked up hard as soon as I ran testmem5...4 instant errors then hard lock, then the board shut off after 30 seconds of hard lock. But this is still with everything else auto (except the primaries and 1T). At least it was fully "usable" on the M12E (but i didn't really test anything, i can't stand 16 GB of RAM). ok i raised the voltage to 1.45v, ddr termination to 0.73v, IO/SA to 1.40 and 1.45v and it didn't insta-crash in testmem5 this time. Still got 2 errors in 1 minute though. I can't be bothered with this motherboard. Seriously. I hate it.


----------



## Falkentyne

ViTosS said:


> Honestly if I can't leave my CPU with HT on to have RAM OC stable, I prefer to forget RAM OC.
> 
> But if you say is related to IMC and if I do that and fix the OC, so the IMC is the cause =)


It's worth a try. Whenever you are trying to troubleshoot, remove everything that could be causing things to break then add them back in 1 at a time until you find out what is breaking stuff. So yes, HT off and test. Not asking you to USE your computer 24/7 with HT off....never said that...


----------



## Worldwin

Falkentyne said:


> Yeah. Gigabyte Bios.
> The Z390 Master inherited some same problems, except 1T worked at 3200 and 3333 only. Any higher=boot loop. Neither the 4000 CL19 steel vipers (2x8 GB) nor the 3200 CL14 2x16 GB Gskills would work higher than 3333 1T. (note that the 3200 CL14's worked at 3600 15/15/15/36 1T on the Maximus 12 extreme but were not fully stable but at least it worked).
> 
> And the Z490 master had the same problem originally. The steel viper 4000 CL19's would run at 17/17/17/39 1T at 1.35v just fine on the Maximus 12 Extreme, but would boot loop on the Z490 Master, and even 3600 15/15/15/36 or 17/17/17/39 1T would fail, and it didn't matter what the voltages were either. Of course 2T worked instantly.
> 
> I just flashed the most recent Z490 Master bios an hour ago, and now 17/17/17/39 1T works at 4000 mhz finally. Well..it loaded windows  But it instantly locked up hard as soon as I ran testmem5...4 instant errors then hard lock, then the board shut off after 30 seconds of hard lock. But this is still with everything else auto (except the primaries and 1T). At least it was fully "usable" on the M12E (but i didn't really test anything, i can't stand 16 GB of RAM). ok i raised the voltage to 1.45v, ddr termination to 0.73v, IO/SA to 1.40 and 1.45v and it didn't insta-crash in testmem5 this time. Still got 2 errors in 1 minute though. I can't be bothered with this motherboard. Seriously. I hate it.


I know. The hardware is solid on paper. But that BIOS. So bad. Annoyingly with the X370 Gaming K7 I was able to get 1T @ 3466 C14 on the same ram. Why is it working fine on the lower end K7 but not Gaming 7.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Guys, the fact that I changed my Asus Maximus X Hero to an Asus Maximus XI Apex and my RAM's OC stayed the same as before, but just now I can boot and stress frequencies way higher than before, would that be a problem of my CPU IMC? It's really weird I can't accomplish any other OC stable than my old OC on the Maximus X Hero, [email protected] with tREFI 65534, tWR 12 and tRFC 320, I wasn't able to boot anything over 4000Mhz in X Hero, now I can boot 4500Mhz as far as I tested, but at the same time I can't have anything stable better than the old RAM OC, can't have [email protected] stable, neither [email protected], neither [email protected] and anything that I've tried. CPU IMC is the culprit?
> 
> Edit.:* I also changed my sig setup but for some reason it's not updating.*


https://www.overclock.net/forum/177...updated-signature-confirmed.html#post27580736

Have you tried resetting the BIOS and overclocking the memory with the CPU on stock just as a test?
Edit: I like the 9900ks and those 3600 cl15 G.Skill sticks you posted  You can sell your other stuff to offset the price 
If you replace the ram first it is possible the 8700k will overclock ram better than the 9900ks will. It's my one regret when I upgraded that I never tried that first.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> https://www.overclock.net/forum/177...updated-signature-confirmed.html#post27580736
> 
> Have you tried resetting the BIOS and overclocking the memory with the CPU on stock just as a test?


Ty, I had to delete my rig and create again froun zero, but it's solved 

I never tried RAM OC without my CPU OC, but tonight when I will be going to sleep I will do that, disable HT and also disable all CPU OC.

Edit.: Yes I'm trying to save money for the 3080Ti, here in Brazil the prices are very bad of hardware, a LOT of taxes and impost, it's really sad, but I plan to change to 9900k or 9900ks, I just don't want to upgrade to a new 10th gen or 11th and change the motherboard again, my only concern is that if I take too much time to update, probably 9900k and ks are going to disapear from sales.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Ty, I had to delete my rig and create again froun zero, but it's solved
> 
> I never tried RAM OC without my CPU OC, but tonight when I will be going to sleep I will do that, disable HT and also disable all CPU OC.
> 
> Edit.: Yes I'm trying to save money for the 3080Ti, here in Brazil the prices are very bad of hardware, a LOT of taxes and impost, it's really sad, but I plan to change to 9900k or 9900ks, I just don't want to upgrade to a new 10th gen or 11th and change the motherboard again, my only concern is that if I take too much time to update, probably 9900k and ks are going to disapear from sales.


The 9900ks will sell easily down the track if you upgrade again. I'm very happy with mine. 5GHz stock and a soldered IHS 
If you buy the normal 9900k you will probably get a low bin now.
Whatever you buy will be a keeper for a few years with that Apex XI


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> The 9900ks will sell easily down the track if you upgrade again. I'm very happy with mine. 5GHz stock and a soldered IHS
> If you buy the normal 9900k you will probably get a low bin now.
> Whatever you buy will be a keeper for a few years with that Apex XI


Hehe yea that's right, I will probably upgrade soon or later to 9900ks, I bought this Apex XI because I found it used in a very known market website here in Brazil, I've bought it used but the condition of the board is very good, almost like new, your Gene XI is also a beast


----------



## Nizzen

Worldwin said:


> Alright can someone gimme some timings to quickly steal for their 4400C19 Viper Steels. Unfortunately the ones I received are straight up worse than the 3200C14 Trident Z i already have. Another note is that XMP straight up won't work but at least I got Amazon.


Must be the motherboard or the user.


----------



## Worldwin

Nizzen said:


> Must be the motherboard or the user.


Where you going with this?


----------



## ViTosS

Well for some weird reason I can't open HWiNFO64 when I have HT disabled in BIOS


----------



## Falkentyne

ViTosS said:


> Well for some weird reason I can't open HWiNFO64 when I have HT disabled in BIOS


Delete hwinfo INI. Sometimes it gets bugged when threads disappear but it shouldn't (I don't have that problem). I've only seen it crash sometimes when I have "reordering" menus active and then i start disabling cores...THAT makes it crash good.


----------



## ViTosS

Falkentyne said:


> Delete hwinfo INI. Sometimes it gets bugged when threads disappear but it shouldn't (I don't have that problem). I've only seen it crash sometimes when I have "reordering" menus active and then i start disabling cores...THAT makes it crash good.


Well I downloaded the older version 6.24 and now it's normal. 

But anyway, I had errors at [email protected] tRFC 360 tWR 16 and tREFI 32100 with CPU completely stock and also HT disabled, tried a couple of differente vDRAM/VCCIO/VCCSA voltage without success, maybe is it the RAM sticks really bad bin instead of the CPU IMC?


----------



## GTi-6

Hi everyone, I've already posted this on Asus X299 thread but Jpmboy redirected me to this thread. I have an Asus Rampage 6 Extreme motherboard with BIOS 3006, running Core i9 7940x. My memory is not on QVL and it is G.Skill F4-3733C17Q-64GTZR (4*16GB). I've never got this memory to run stable on 3733Mhz till the last BIOS update. After CLRMOS and XMP enabled, I've tested this kit and it was stable 1000% on HCI Memtest and GSAT 2 hours running on Windows via Ubuntu dist. 

The problem I have is the with CODE AF and CODE B0 during cold boot and resume from sleep. Everything works great, I turn off the PC, next day cold boot and CODE B0 (Detect Memory) no boot. Or PC goes to sleep, after 8-10 hours, trying to wake it up CODE AF (Detect Memory) black screen.

The only time it works is Optimized Defaults running memory at 2133mhz. I tried manual DRAM Frequency and manually entered Primary timings (17-19-19-39-2T) and still the same. With 3600 or 3400 mhz results are the same.

I reseated CPU and cooler. One module and XMP enabled, no problem. I tried each individual module and all ok. 4 modules on right bank, 64GB and Dual Channel and XMP enabled and/or all 4 modules on left bank, no problem.

Modules are installed on A1 B1 C1 D1 as manual described. 

Right now, AI overclock set to AUTO and DRAM Freq on 3733Mhz. Manually entered Primary timings. Turnaround Optimization Enabled. So far it seems stable but I will try some cold boots and resume from sleep. 

Any recommendations to solve this? Or should I just give up get something from QVL? 

Thanks.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

GTi-6 said:


> Hi everyone, I've already posted this on Asus X299 thread but Jpmboy redirected me to this thread. I have an Asus Rampage 6 Extreme motherboard with BIOS 3006, running Core i9 7940x. My memory is not on QVL and it is G.Skill F4-3733C17Q-64GTZR (4*16GB). I've never got this memory to run stable on 3733Mhz till the last BIOS update. After CLRMOS and XMP enabled, I've tested this kit and it was stable 1000% on HCI Memtest and GSAT 2 hours running on Windows via Ubuntu dist.
> 
> The problem I have is the with CODE AF and CODE B0 during cold boot and resume from sleep. Everything works great, I turn off the PC, next day cold boot and CODE B0 (Detect Memory) no boot. Or PC goes to sleep, after 8-10 hours, trying to wake it up CODE AF (Detect Memory) black screen.
> 
> The only time it works is Optimized Defaults running memory at 2133mhz. I tried manual DRAM Frequency and manually entered Primary timings (17-19-19-39-2T) and still the same. With 3600 or 3400 mhz results are the same.
> 
> I reseated CPU and cooler. One module and XMP enabled, no problem. I tried each individual module and all ok. 4 modules on right bank, 64GB and Dual Channel and XMP enabled and/or all 4 modules on left bank, no problem.
> 
> Modules are installed on A1 B1 C1 D1 as manual described.
> 
> Right now, AI overclock set to AUTO and DRAM Freq on 3733Mhz. Manually entered Primary timings. Turnaround Optimization Enabled. So far it seems stable but I will try some cold boots and resume from sleep.
> 
> Any recommendations to solve this? Or should I just give up get something from QVL?
> 
> Thanks.


Lower your vccsa to the lowest voltage, I believe it's 0.7v. I had cold boot issues on Apex Rampage 9980xe. Lowering SA to 0.7v, cold boots near nonexistent now.


See if it helps.


----------



## reflex75

People are confusing RAM OC with CPU OC.
The key point for RAM stability is temperature, more than any other component.
Jedec says for DDR4: 0°C ~ 85°C 
But RAM vendors are pushing their last kits so fast that even stock XMP can throw errors starting from 50°c!
If you are interested in my feedback of the last G.Skill 4000 CL15, you can read my long review on their official forum:
https://www.gskill.us/forum/forum/g...-discussion-aa/164555-max-temperature-for-xmp

The rule is: the faster you want to push your RAM (frequency and/or timings), the cooler you have to keep them.
So don't loose your time doing long stress tests, because duration doesn't matter. Just increase your RAM temperature (lower case fans, active GPU hot air...) to find the limit when they start to throw first errors.
The process is first to choose your suitable max safe temperature, because silent RAM corruption can kill your OS and destroy your files (worse than CPU OC crash).
It depends on your case air flow, if you have an active fan on RAM, if you have a big air GPU, your ambiant temperature, your PC usage (just benching or 24/7 daily usage with gaming...)
For instance, in my case, during heavy gaming, my RAM temp can increases to the worst value of 55°. I choose to add 5°c as safety room. So my max safe temperature is 60°, and I have found my best setting (frequency/timings) which remains stable until 60°c.
It means that if you want to really compare 2 kits which can run at the same speed/timings, the better one is the one that can keep its signal stability at higher temperature...


----------



## Robostyle

reflex75 said:


> People are confusing RAM OC with CPU OC.
> The key point for RAM stability is temperature, more than any other component.
> Jedec says for DDR4: 0°C ~ 85°C
> But RAM vendors are pushing their last kits so fast that even stock XMP can throw errors starting from 50°c!
> If you are interested in my feedback of the last G.Skill 4000 CL15, you can read my long review on their official forum:
> https://www.gskill.us/forum/forum/g...-discussion-aa/164555-max-temperature-for-xmp
> 
> The rule is: the faster you want to push your RAM (frequency and/or timings), the cooler you have to keep them.
> So don't loose your time doing long stress tests, because duration doesn't matter. Just increase your RAM temperature (lower case fans, active GPU hot air...) to find the limit when they start to throw first errors.
> The process is first to choose your suitable max safe temperature, because silent RAM corruption can kill your OS and destroy your files (worse than CPU OC crash).
> It depends on your case air flow, if you have an active fan on RAM, if you have a big air GPU, your ambiant temperature, your PC usage (just benching or 24/7 daily usage with gaming...)
> For instance, in my case, during heavy gaming, my RAM temp can increases to the worst value of 55°. I choose to add 5°c as safety room. So my max safe temperature is 60°, and I have found my best setting (frequency/timings) which remains stable until 60°c.
> It means that if you want to really compare 2 kits which can run at the same speed/timings, the better one is the one that can keep its signal stability at higher temperature...



But maybe you can neglect these effects, and not by loosening timings - something that RTT or ODT can help with?


----------



## reflex75

Robostyle said:


> reflex75 said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are confusing RAM OC with CPU OC.
> The key point for RAM stability is temperature, more than any other component.
> Jedec says for DDR4: 0Â°C ~ 85Â°C
> But RAM vendors are pushing their last kits so fast that even stock XMP can throw errors starting from 50Â°c!
> If you are interested in my feedback of the last G.Skill 4000 CL15, you can read my long review on their official forum:
> https://www.gskill.us/forum/forum/g...-discussion-aa/164555-max-temperature-for-xmp
> 
> The rule is: the faster you want to push your RAM (frequency and/or timings), the cooler you have to keep them.
> So don't loose your time doing long stress tests, because duration doesn't matter. Just increase your RAM temperature (lower case fans, active GPU hot air...) to find the limit when they start to throw first errors.
> The process is first to choose your suitable max safe temperature, because silent RAM corruption can kill your OS and destroy your files (worse than CPU OC crash).
> It depends on your case air flow, if you have an active fan on RAM, if you have a big air GPU, your ambiant temperature, your PC usage (just benching or 24/7 daily usage with gaming...)
> For instance, in my case, during heavy gaming, my RAM temp can increases to the worst value of 55Â°. I choose to add 5Â°c as safety room. So my max safe temperature is 60Â°, and I have found my best setting (frequency/timings) which remains stable until 60Â°c.
> It means that if you want to really compare 2 kits which can run at the same speed/timings, the better one is the one that can keep its signal stability at higher temperature...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But maybe you can neglect these effects, and not by loosening timings - something that RTT or ODT can help with?
Click to expand...

Increasing RAM voltage can help to stabilise the signal degradation caused by higher temperature to a certain degree.
But it depends on the RAM type, size and silicon lottery...


----------



## ViTosS

Running GSAT it said ''Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (3000 seconds remaining)'' and then ''Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (2985 seconds remaining)'', is it normal?


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Running GSAT it said ''Pausing worker threads in preparation for power spike (3000 seconds remaining)'' and then ''Resuming worker threads to cause a power spike (2985 seconds remaining)'', is it normal?


It is not needed for a home desktop pc. Make the --pause_delay larger than the run time -s.
I added it to the tutorial :thumb:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/1805...l#post28448038


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> It is not needed for a home desktop pc. Make the --pause_delay larger than the run time -s.
> I added it to the tutorial :thumb:
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/1805...l#post28448038


Thanks 

I was able to improve my RAM OC, I've set Mode 2 in BIOS for RAM (this alone made my latency drop from 39.3ns to 37.7ns) and also raised it a bit from 4000 to 4133Mhz, seems pretty much stable, but I will leave GSAT/MemTest/TM5/Karhu running while I sleep

IO/SA and vDRAM is not optimized to minimum stable yet, I had to raise a bit those because I was getting errors in Prime95 112-112k FFTs in-place with AVX disabled, so when I raised IO/SA from 1.0125v/1.08750 to 1.10/1.15 it instantly solved, so I just throw these 1.175/1.20v and 1.44, will stick with these for now...


----------



## Robostyle

Here's something unusual for this thread.
Micron b-die, d9tbh. Sticks have neither voltage regulation, nor thermal probe - so it's 1.2V.
Uncore ~1.1-1.2V, since I can only see offset, and 6700HQ seems running 1V-all at stock.

Maybe results aren't impressive, being in the shadow of z490 and apex-es - but cmon, it's HM170!)

Interesting that tRAS can go very tight, maybe even =tCL if I had a chance to tweak vDDR and thirds.


----------



## ogider

Final setup for CL 16-16-16 with this memory kit 24/7 use.
f4-3200c14d-32GTZ 2x16GB
DDR4V 1.52V/SA 1.30V/IO 1.28V
10900k 5.0 / Cache 4.7 / +extra MHz from BCLK 100.95



I m abble to set 4400MHz with this timings but stress tests shows errors after 40%

Also I can enter to windows with this kit at 4600MHz CL 17 17 17 36 370 rest AUTO but DDR4 1.57V. And I think maybe even 1.6+V needed for stress tests.
So only for bench not 24/7 use.
@OLDFATSHEEP

because I want to stay within 1.50-1.55v DDR4 voltage. Is there sense to fight for 4500 CL 17 with lighter second and third and fourth time timings compared to the current configuration?

Would it be more efficient just because the memory clock would be 177MHz higher at the expense of timings?
What is your opinion on this topic?


----------



## Esenel

Is anyone running 4x8 4300-4500 CL17 with tight timings on Z490?

I am walling at 4266 CL17 😕
tFAW is 16 again.
RTL IOL are even as well.
Old screenshot


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> Final setup for CL 16-16-16 with this memory kit 24/7 use.
> f4-3200c14d-32GTZ 2x16GB
> DDR4V 1.52V/SA 1.30V/IO 1.28V
> 10900k 5.0 / Cache 4.7 / +extra MHz from BCLK 100.95
> 
> 
> 
> I m abble to set 4400MHz with this timings but stress tests shows errors after 40%
> 
> Also I can enter to windows with this kit at 4600MHz CL 17 17 17 36 370 rest AUTO but DDR4 1.57V. And I think maybe even 1.6+V needed for stress tests.
> So only for bench not 24/7 use.
> 
> @OLDFATSHEEP
> 
> because I want to stay within 1.50-1.55v DDR4 voltage. Is there sense to fight for 4500 CL 17 with lighter second and third and fourth time timings compared to the current configuration?
> 
> Would it be more efficient just because the memory clock would be 177MHz higher at the expense of timings?
> What is your opinion on this topic?


IMO 4400 16-16 should be achievable with the new BIOS. They have already unlocked DR b-die.

Rise VCCSA will increase the tolerance of DIMM temperature degradation, maybe to 1.35 or 1.4. VCCIO up tp 1.35 should also help.

Around 4500, 1.35 volt for both IO/SA should be a good value.


----------



## Nizzen

Esenel said:


> Is anyone running 4x8 4300-4500 CL17 with tight timings on Z490?
> 
> I am walling at 4266 CL17 😕
> tFAW is 16 again.
> RTL IOL are even as well.
> Old screenshot


I think you need Apex z490 with 2x 8 or very good 2x16GB to get 4400c17+ 🙂

Some from Clockemup.com is doing 4600c17 on z490 formula with 2x8GB vipers. No chance for 4x8GB it looks like.

Try newest 0607 bios. Maybe it helps a bit 🙂


----------



## ThrashZone

Nizzen said:


> I think you need Apex z490 with 2x 8 or very good 2x16GB to get 4400c17+ 🙂
> 
> Some from Clockemup.com is doing 4600c17 on z490 formula with 2x8GB vipers. No chance for 4x8GB it looks like.
> 
> Try newest 0607 bios. Maybe it helps a bit 🙂


Hi,
Yeah I'll be kicking my 3600c16 here soon 2x8 on apex see if they croak on 0606.


----------



## Esenel

Nizzen said:


> I think you need Apex z490 with 2x 8 or very good 2x16GB to get 4400c17+ 🙂
> 
> Some from Clockemup.com is doing 4600c17 on z490 formula with 2x8GB vipers. No chance for 4x8GB it looks like.
> 
> Try newest 0607 bios. Maybe it helps a bit 🙂


2x8 is totally boring :-D

4533 CL17-18 with Neo sticks passed GSAT.
Should even go higher with looser timings.


But I am aiming for 4x8 4400 17-18.
There has to be a way ;-)

Yes I think testing the new 0069 might be the next step.

If you here from someone who has a GSAT stable 4x8 4400 please text me :-D


----------



## ViTosS

Does anyone know how can I set these timings and prevent them from changing where I circled in red? They seem to change everytime I reboot or change other timing, and I noticed the lower they get ''randomly'' the lower is my latency in Aida64


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Yeah a hyper file half the size is really boring 
Gaming doesn't care whether you have 32 or 16gb installed games still work just fine.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah a hyper file half the size is really boring
> Gaming doesn't care whether you have 32 or 16gb installed games still work just fine.


Correct, however, 4x8gb will perform better than 2x8gb/2x16gb with the same frequency/timings in a lot of games.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I doubt anyone would notice 
Games like cache speed more pretty much why z.... series is the bomb and x.... series is not


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I doubt anyone would notice
> Games like cache speed more pretty much why z.... series is the bomb and x.... series is not


Well, it wasn't a question of which has more impact. It was just like "hey, 4x8gb offers more performance". It matters most for those trying to maintain 240hz @ ultra settings. If we were to measure every incremental increase independently, I agree that it is hard to notice...But when we add up all the performance tweaks etc, it adds up and is noticeable imo. Hardware unboxed did a video on comparing 2x8gb vs 4x8gb at same speed/timings. Definitely worth a watch.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Well, it wasn't a question of which has more impact. It was just like "hey, 4x8gb offers more performance". It matters most for those trying to maintain 240hz @ ultra settings. If we were to measure every incremental increase independently, I agree that it is hard to notice...But when we add up all the performance tweaks etc, it adds up and is noticeable imo. Hardware unboxed did a video on comparing 2x8gb vs 4x8gb at same speed/timings. Definitely worth a watch.


4*8GB needs much higher VCCIO for OC than 2*8GB, and heat is a more serious issue.

Besides, you will need to pair your sticks with the 4 different DIMM slots for OC, much more work to do than the 2-DIMM board.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Apex the gouging begins 682.us+ lol :thumb:

https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-maximus-xii-apex/p/N82E16813119293


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Apex the gouging begins 682.us+ lol :thumb:
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-maximus-xii-apex/p/N82E16813119293


Thats a market place seller, doesn't matter.


----------



## ThrashZone

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Thats a market place seller, doesn't matter.


Hi,
Yep typical third party gouger same ones usually on amazon too


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Does anyone know how can I set these timings and prevent them from changing where I circled in red? They seem to change everytime I reboot or change other timing, and I noticed the lower they get ''randomly'' the lower is my latency in Aida64


That shot you posted is perfect if it tests ok. Lock those numbers in.
59/60/6/6/21/21 :thumb:


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> That shot you posted is perfect if it tests ok. Lock those numbers in.
> 59/60/6/6/21/21 :thumb:


I lost these numbers when I rebooted, so I heard if you enable MRC Fast Boot they will stop changing every time, I rebooted till I reach again the 59/60/6/6/21/21 and then enabled MRC Fast Boot and now they seem to be fixed, there is another way to lock them besides enable MRC Fast Boot? Can I change them manually if necessary?


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> I lost these numbers when I rebooted, so I heard if you enable MRC Fast Boot they will stop changing every time, I rebooted till I reach again the 59/60/6/6/21/21 and then enabled MRC Fast Boot and now they seem to be fixed, there is another way to lock them besides enable MRC Fast Boot? Can I change them manually if necessary?


Just enter them manually


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Just enter them manually


But do I have to disable something? I saw something named Training Profile and it was at AUTO, there was 2 more options, Standard and User, should I change that or leave AUTO? And about the MRC Fast Boot? Ty!


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> But do I have to disable something? I saw something named Training Profile and it was at AUTO, there was 2 more options, Standard and User, should I change that or leave AUTO? And about the MRC Fast Boot? Ty!


I think you might be overthinking it but you still have my text file if you want to see my settings


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> I think you might be overthinking it but you still have my text file if you want to see my settings


Thanks man, unfortunately I tried a bit more, disabling MCH Full Check, enabling Trace Centering, but yeah can't still have [email protected], the only thing I didn't try yet was Tweak Mode 1, I'm using Mode 2 right now, it decreased my latency by 2ns.


----------



## SoldierRBT

2x8GB 4400MHz CL17-18-18-38 1.25v IO 1.30v SA for daily use. Latency is about 2ns slower than my 9900K/Apex Z390 at the same settings. IMC is okay, 4600MHz CL17 might be possible.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Breaking bad


----------



## munternet

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Breaking bad


That 8086k is a sweet CPU :thumb:


----------



## Imprezzion

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Breaking bad


How much DRAM voltage are you running? Just curious hehe.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

munternet said:


> That 8086k is a sweet CPU :thumb:


Oddly enough, but for 1.5 years of use, I only recently scalped it) And I always felt the potential in it for a memory controller) I was also held back by the Asrock z370 Taichi, but I still kneel before it)


Imprezzion said:


> How much DRAM voltage are you running? Just curious hehe.


Dram 1.59v)
But I haven't really picked up the tension yet, this result on the selection of stresses was fast. It is also stable at a lower voltage of 1.57-1.58 v, but it takes time to select io/sa. All this was done today in a hurry)


----------



## Robostyle

My 2x16GB 3600CL15 sticks refuse to boot with 1T...

Anything I'm loosing here?


----------



## ThrashZone

Robostyle said:


> My 2x16GB 3600CL15 sticks refuse to boot with 1T...
> 
> Anything I'm loosing here?


Hi,
Missing all system spec's for one
Add to your signature at least in plain text.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

4800 17-18-36 on M12A


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
That's whack :thumb:


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> That's whack :thumb:


Only passed with a 2400RPM ML120 pointed to those sticks 

Edit: 1200RPM also seems OK


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Only passed with a 2400RPM ML120 pointed to those sticks
> 
> Edit: 1200RPM also seems OK


Hi,
How hot did they get ?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> How hot did they get ?


9 rounds of original TM5 Max 45C, haven't test in game yet


----------



## Fire2

I can't launch seem to launch AsRock's 'TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4)' at all :?

ROG MemTweakIt does seem ok...

any tips guys? or better timmings to improve on?

many thanks!!

https://ibb.co/nQ8ZpqR


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Fire2 said:


> I can't launch seem to launch AsRock's 'TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4)' at all :?
> 
> ROG MemTweakIt does seem ok...
> 
> any tips guys? or better timmings to improve on?
> 
> many thanks!!
> 
> https://ibb.co/nQ8ZpqR


Should use 4.0.3

BTW, that's a nice chip, congrats!


----------



## Robostyle

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Missing all system spec's for one
> Add to your signature at least in plain text.


Can't find where I can write it down, in profile's settings.


----------



## munternet

Robostyle said:


> Can't find where I can write it down, in profile's settings.


Under Rigbuilder at the top, middle of the page or
https://www.overclock.net/forum/profile.php?do=editsignature


----------



## Robostyle

munternet said:


> Under Rigbuilder at the top, middle of the page or
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/profile.php?do=editsignature


Ok, found it!



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Missing all system spec's for one
> Add to your signature at least in plain text.


It's M10H, F4-3000C14D-32GTZR and 8700K.


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 4800 17-18-36 on M12A


Nice job, but the read speed is pretty low for 4800mhz. Maybe better to run 4700c17 tight 🙂
https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/mo...abil.PNG.29b44f8b8e7fef0fa80e60fdf13ee268.PNG


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Nice job, but the read speed is pretty low for 4800mhz. Maybe better to run 4700c17 tight 🙂
> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/mo...abil.PNG.29b44f8b8e7fef0fa80e60fdf13ee268.PNG


Thanks mate. Your result is much better! My sticks cant run 1T at 4700. Probably a stronger IMC will save them


----------



## munternet

Nizzen said:


> Nice job, but the read speed is pretty low for 4800mhz. Maybe better to run 4700c17 tight 🙂
> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/mo...abil.PNG.29b44f8b8e7fef0fa80e60fdf13ee268.PNG


Nice and low on the vccio and vccsa. Is that due to it being 1T?


----------



## ViTosS

Where can I download the latest version of Asus TurboV Core?


----------



## ViTosS

Nizzen said:


> Nice job, but the read speed is pretty low for 4800mhz. Maybe better to run 4700c17 tight 🙂
> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/mo...abil.PNG.29b44f8b8e7fef0fa80e60fdf13ee268.PNG


Wow insane OC right there, grats, which software is that ''RunMemTestPro 4.0''? Looks like HCI MemTest paid version (which I have), but mine doesn't look like that...


----------



## bp7178

ViTosS said:


> Where can I download the latest version of Asus TurboV Core?


 @munternet posted the link I used to download it. Its pretty buried on Asus' site.


----------



## ViTosS

bp7178 said:


> @munternet posted the link I used to download it. Its pretty buried on Asus' site.


Yeah I downloaded through his link some time ago, but I wonder if there is an updated version, when I go to Asus website it comes with a lot of useless things when I install, I just want the Asus TurboV Core.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Where can I download the latest version of Asus TurboV Core?


https://mega.nz/file/LP5RDA7Z#MVZiFpyqJbuJU4e592prBKdEftcjcZP9gRhs5Fn401g
Sorry, that's the latest I have


----------



## Fire2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Should use 4.0.3
> 
> BTW, that's a nice chip, congrats!



ah yes! 4.0.3 works fine!
weird 4.0.4 doesn't like Z490?!

anyhow!

chips does 5.3ghz with 1.38vcore level 3 LLC fine also! but runs hot at load with my little 280aio.


----------



## Thebc2

Picked up the following kit to mess around with on my Maximus XII Formula. Was about $100 cheaper than the 4266cl17 kit I was playing around with before. I think I saw someone else was playing around with this kit as well on a z490. Any luck pushing it past 4133?


https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1536657390/F4-4133C17D-16GTZR-Specification



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Thebc2 said:


> Picked up the following kit to mess around with on my Maximus XII Formula. Was about $100 cheaper than the 4266cl17 kit I was playing around with before. I think I saw someone else was playing around with this kit as well on a z490. Any luck pushing it past 4133?
> 
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1536657390/F4-4133C17D-16GTZR-Specification
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Had a dual kit. A little worse than 3600C15D


----------



## Thebc2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Had a dual kit. A little worse than 3600C15D




Cheers, I linked the 2x8 kit, I actually got the 4x8 “q” model. Anyone had any luck running them in 4x8?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ViTosS

Well I just bought that Newegg G.Skill TridentZ 2x8GB [email protected] 1.35v XMP, now I will have sure if my RAM OC problem is IMC or RAM lottery related


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Well I just bought that Newegg G.Skill TridentZ 2x8GB [email protected] 1.35v XMP, now I will have sure if my RAM OC problem is IMC or RAM lottery related


Sweet :thumb:
Keep us posted


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

can someone explain to me why a memory overclock will be stable using vcore llc high but not stable with vcore llc medium + increased voltage? Same vmin for both configs, even tried an extra tick/2 ticks over vmin, only the llc high stable. Memory overclock aside, cpu overclock stable with both llc/voltage configs.


----------



## qefir

7640x 5/4.9/3733cl16 full stable.


----------



## Nizzen

qefir said:


> 7640x 5/4.9/3733cl16 full stable.


Maybe show some stability tests then?

Gsat, ramtest, memorytest pro etc..


----------



## qefir

Nizzen said:


> qefir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 7640x 5/4.9/3733cl16 full stable.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe show some stability tests then?
> 
> Gsat, ramtest, memorytest pro etc..
Click to expand...

 Sorry, did everything at night, the screen with the runs on the PC remained. I'll take off in the evening in Moscow. what’s higher is a screen from correspondence


----------



## munternet

Viper Steels 4400cl19
4400-17-17-17-37-2T
9900ks
Gene XI
VDRAM 1.64
VCCIO 1.25
VCCSA 1.35

The Steels seem a little crisper than the 4400cl19 G.Skills.
By crisper I mean they either work and don't error or they don't POST or produce lots of errors straight away, to a point.
They also scale better with DRAM voltage (temps not being an issue because of the water cooling) though my CPU doesn't seem to like too much vccio or vccsa.
Had them doing 4400cl16 but they had 2 errors in TM5 Extreme and I couldn't shake them and retain performance. They were BFV and GSAT stable.
The Vipers didn't seem comfortable over 4400 at all.
The G.Skills could hit 4500s and 4600s and run windows and BFV but getting them 100% stable was another matter.
I think the limitation is my IMC since it's common for the 8086k to do much better than me with the same Ram and board.
The only other thing I can think of that I haven't tried is setting the CPU overclock and cache ratio to stock and see if that makes a difference, but it's dialed back to 5.1GHz so might not be an issue.


----------



## opt33

Same viper steels 4400c19, but weak IMC on my 9900k + GB mobo. 4133 stable, 4266 bench only (errors), 4400 no post regardless of setting/voltage.

1st pic 4133c16 with 1.48 vdram, 1.32v vccsa, 1.31 vccio, stable 500% (have done 1900% in past w similar settings)

2nd pic is exact same, except my cache set to 47, which always produces single error at ~320% coverage, regardless of other settings...screwed up many runs til figured out it was 47 cache doing it.


----------



## munternet

opt33 said:


> Same viper steels 4400c19, but weak IMC on my 9900k + GB mobo. 4133 stable, 4266 bench only (errors), 4400 no post regardless of setting/voltage.
> 
> 1st pic 4133c16 with 1.48 vdram, 1.32v vccsa, 1.31 vccio, stable 500% (have done 1900% in past w similar settings)
> 
> 2nd pic is exact same, except my cache set to 47, which always produces single error at ~320% coverage, regardless of other settings...screwed up many runs til figured out it was 47 cache doing it.


That's a good result for a 4 DIMM T-Topology board running only 2 sticks :thumb:
Your IMC may flourish on a 2 DIMM board


----------



## opt33

munternet said:


> That's a good result for a 4 DIMM T-Topology board running only 2 sticks :thumb:
> Your IMC may flourish on a 2 DIMM board


would be interesting to try on daisy chain mobo/asus just to know the limit.


----------



## AndrejB

opt33 said:


> would be interesting to try on daisy chain mobo/asus just to know the limit.


It's not your imc it's the board. Master can't go over 4133.

You got pretty nice latency on it. Only saw >40ns at 3900


----------



## Nizzen

opt33 said:


> munternet said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good result for a 4 DIMM T-Topology board running only 2 sticks /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
> Your IMC may flourish on a 2 DIMM board /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> would be interesting to try on daisy chain mobo/asus just to know the limit.
Click to expand...

Possible to run 4600mhz with 2 stics on Formula z490. Apex xii is 4800mhz easy (with good enough imc and memory)


----------



## andrvas

Anyone else running Hynix D-die? How does it scale with voltage? I'm currently running my HyperX 3600 c17 at 4133 c17 @1.5v.


----------



## Robostyle

So,
My 2x16GB 3600CL15 sticks refuse to boot with 1T...

Something I don't know about DR ram?


----------



## munternet

Robostyle said:


> So,
> My 2x16GB 3600CL15 sticks refuse to boot with 1T...
> 
> Something I don't know about DR ram?


Enable trace centering and mode 2 on Asus


----------



## Nizzen

Robostyle said:


> So,
> My 2x16GB 3600CL15 sticks refuse to boot with 1T...
> 
> Something I don't know about DR ram?


What MB do you have?

1T does not help much in performance. Often 2T does overclock higher in frequence and lower timings, so the performance could be better with 2T. 

1T is way more easy on Apex and gene MB's than other 4 slot MB's.

If you have Asus z390 hero, it is just bad i therm of memory oc. I had problems with hero z390 to even bypass 4000 mhz.

One of the reason I'm running Asus apex z390 and apex z490. It just works on memory overclocking.

My youngest kid has 9900k and z390 hero. Running 3733mhz c 17 with just tweaked trfc and some other small tweaks. Orginal 4000c17 kit


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Robostyle said:


> So,
> My 2x16GB 3600CL15 sticks refuse to boot with 1T...
> 
> Something I don't know about DR ram?


2x16gb DR B-die requires MB vendor to unlock... Probably Asus does not work anymore on M10H. That means you need more work to do to get them stabled.

They just recently unlocked DR B-die on M11 boards and M12 boards.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

andrvas said:


> Anyone else running Hynix D-die? How does it scale with voltage? I'm currently running my HyperX 3600 c17 at 4133 c17 @1.5v.


The WR is done with Hynix DJR, so it should scale very well


----------



## Robostyle

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 2x16gb DR B-die requires MB vendor to unlock... Probably Asus does not work anymore on M10H. That means you need more work to do to get them stabled.
> 
> They just recently unlocked DR B-die on M11 boards and M12 boards.



Oh, dunno what You said, but I’m interested.
Unlocked? How’s that?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Robostyle said:


> Oh, dunno what You said, but I’m interested.
> Unlocked? How’s that?


Other than the 1st, 2nd, 3rd timing, there are many other parameters need to be fine-tuned. For most of the time MB vendors tune those parameters for you. Once they get one new ram tested, they will write the most fitted parameters into BIOS. That's called unlock. M10H is pretty old. They might not spend time to update the BIOS.


----------



## Robostyle

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Other than the 1st, 2nd, 3rd timing, there are many other parameters need to be fine-tuned. For most of the time MB vendors tune those parameters for you. Once they get one new ram tested, they will write the most fitted parameters into BIOS. That's called unlock. M10H is pretty old. They might not spend time to update the BIOS.


I see. And is there a lot of such hidden stuff I don't see, even while having maximus board? As I understand, it's not even skew block, right?

P.S. Latest bios available dated 28.04.2020 - dunno though if they've changed anything drastically. 
Changelog is short on info - as usual.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Robostyle said:


> I see. And is there a lot of such hidden stuff I don't see, even while having maximus board? As I understand, it's not even skew block, right?
> 
> P.S. Latest bios available dated 28.04.2020 - dunno though if they've changed anything drastically.
> Changelog is short on info - as usual.


The last thing you can do is the skew settings. Like the CTRL CMD DATA slopes and ODT. If that cant help, you might need newer bios or a new system.

If you cannot post, try to change data rising. A general ODT for DR bdie on Z390 is wr80/park120/nom34.

They write everything for test BIOSes, such as M12A 0069: optimize DR B-die 4400+/optimize DR Hynix DJR 4400+


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

b-die 4600 17-18-36 1.54V, VCCIO 1.35V, VCCSA 1.3V

dimm temperatures up to 58C stable


----------



## nick name

Anyone looking for a G.Skill 3600C15 2X8GB kit? Newegg has them at the lowest I think I've ever seen.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232306


----------



## Robostyle

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The last thing you can do is the skew settings. Like the CTRL CMD DATA slopes and ODT. If that cant help, you might need newer bios or a new system.
> 
> If you cannot post, try to change data rising. A general ODT for DR bdie on Z390 is wr80/park120/nom34.
> 
> They write everything for test BIOSes, such as M12A 0069: optimize DR B-die 4400+/optimize DR Hynix DJR 4400+


Ok, thanks for odt numbers - I was trying to figure them out, though couldn't achieve success - instead of simply freezing my mobo end up in bootloop at RAM init stage.
Is there any advanced guides dedicated to skew control? - from links I’ve found in this thread, info is scarce, detailed reviews stop at thirds or IOLs, some of them talk about ODT (mostly procODT and AMD) - and zero info regarding slopes.
And raja’s manuals unfortunately irrelevant due to...pictures; they are all absent, and seems like all info in that thread he posted with them


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Robostyle said:


> Ok, thanks for odt numbers - I was trying to figure them out, though couldn't achieve success - instead of simply freezing my mobo end up in bootloop at RAM init stage.
> Is there any advanced guides dedicated to skew control? - from links I’ve found in this thread, info is scarce, detailed reviews stop at thirds or IOLs, some of them talk about ODT (mostly procODT and AMD) - and zero info regarding slopes.
> And raja’s manuals unfortunately irrelevant due to...pictures; they are all absent, and seems like all info in that thread he posted with them


Skew control is more related to your processor, your MB and your sticks. More like a parameter related to the hardware production quality control. You need to figure out the numbers for your own setup.


----------



## Worldwin

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> b-die 4600 17-18-36 1.54V, VCCIO 1.35V, VCCSA 1.3V
> 
> dimm temperatures up to 58C stable


Looks like you have it on 2 different channels. Resolution for image is too low but it seems its on DIMM 1 and DIMM 2 instead of DIMM1A/1B.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Worldwin said:


> Looks like you have it on 2 different channels. Resolution for image is too low but it seems its on DIMM 1 and DIMM 2 instead of DIMM1A/1B.


Its a bug. Maximus XII APEX only has 2 DIMM slots


----------



## Nilsagard

I have some trouble with getting RAM stable.
I use 4 sticks of Dominator platinum 3600 mhz that easily OC'd to 4300 with my 8700k setup (at my current motherboard Asus Maximus XI). However, I have changed to a 9900ks since at least 6 months, and cannot get frequencys stable past 4133 mhz.
Same settings like the 8700k. 
It can pass karhu for 8 hours straight with 4266 or 4300 mhz (18-21-21-42 2T + tight sub-timings), but the out of the sudden (randomly) crash with IRQ NOT LESS OR EQUAL, or critical process died. Often related to ntoskrnl.exe.

I have tried VCCSA and VCCIO up to 1,3v, increased RAM volt to 1.5v, increased core voltage and a million other minor settings with the same outcome.

Is my CPU limiting the RAM speed?


----------



## reflex75

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> b-die 4600 17-18-36 1.54V, VCCIO 1.35V, VCCSA 1.3V
> 
> dimm temperatures up to 58C stable /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


Very nice!
Fast and rock stable!
Impressive at this frequency and timings. 
Good combo (RAM+CPU+Apex)
What about Aida bench results?


----------



## reflex75

Worldwin said:


> OLDFATSHEEP said:
> 
> 
> 
> b-die 4600 17-18-36 1.54V, VCCIO 1.35V, VCCSA 1.3V
> 
> dimm temperatures up to 58C stable /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you have it on 2 different channels. Resolution for image is too low but it seems its on DIMM 1 and DIMM 2 instead of DIMM1A/1B.
Click to expand...

Apex have only 2 dimms slots to keep the traces connecting RAM and CPU the shortest possible for better signal, thus allowing better RAM OC (if CPU IMC can follow)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reflex75 said:


> Very nice!
> Fast and rock stable!
> Impressive at this frequency and timings.
> Good combo (RAM+CPU+Apex)
> What about Aida bench results?


Here you go


----------



## eminded1

got myself a pair of Gskill F4-4000c17d-16gtzr 16gb 2x8gb running in a z490 hero with a i7 10700k (cant find the i9 and not paying 350+ for it on ebay) and i got them stable at 4400mhz i tried 4500 but it just wont pass Karhu but passes p95 large fft and aida.. 4600 wont boot. 

Im using the XMP 2 Profile andh changing the clock speed to 4400 and i didnt even change the timings there at the defualt 17 17 17 37 but i did up the voltage to 1.55 im keeping it 24/7 i ran all the tests hrs and hrs of prime95 largefft, Karhu stable for hrs and hrs.. also memtest stable for hrs . i will post back to see if i can get em higher than 4400. 
here are my settings.

CPU:
i7 10700k @ 5GHZ All Core 1.33 (bios) 1.22 (load) 4.6 Cache

Gskill F4-4000c17d-16gtzr 16gb 2x8gb RGB
Clocked at 4400MHZ with XMP2 On 
Timings at 17 17 17 37 2t
VDIMM: 1.55
VCCIO: 1.27
VCCSA: 1.28
DMI 1.27

Temps stay below 43c on mem never exceed... i wonder if i could go higher. Ill post back if i can get them stable higher..
I had 4x8gb of the patroit 4400 c19,s to start with and i could get them stable above 3900mhz at any voltage or timings so i sent those back... this kit is pretty sick


----------



## munternet

eminded1 said:


> got myself a pair of Gskill F4-4000c17d-16gtzr 16gb 2x8gb running in a z490 hero with a i7 10700k (cant find the i9 and not paying 350+ for it on ebay) and i got them stable at 4400mhz i tried 4500 but it just wont pass Karhu but passes p95 large fft and aida.. 4600 wont boot.
> 
> Im using the XMP 2 Profile andh changing the clock speed to 4400 and i didnt even change the timings there at the defualt 17 17 17 37 but i did up the voltage to 1.55 im keeping it 24/7 i ran all the tests hrs and hrs of prime95 largefft, Karhu stable for hrs and hrs.. also memtest stable for hrs . i will post back to see if i can get em higher than 4400.
> here are my settings.
> 
> CPU:
> i7 10700k @ 5GHZ All Core 1.33 (bios) 1.22 (load) 4.6 Cache
> 
> Gskill F4-4000c17d-16gtzr 16gb 2x8gb RGB
> Clocked at 4400MHZ with XMP2 On
> Timings at 17 17 17 37 2t
> VDIMM: 1.55
> VCCIO: 1.27
> VCCSA: 1.28
> DMI 1.27
> 
> Temps stay below 43c on mem never exceed... i wonder if i could go higher. Ill post back if i can get them stable higher..
> I had 4x8gb of the patroit 4400 c19,s to start with and i could get them stable above 3900mhz at any voltage or timings so i sent those back... this kit is pretty sick


Nice result :thumb:
Did you try 2x8GB of the Patriots or was that all 4 sticks? Daisy chain topology, right?
I think I need 1.64v DRAM with the viper steels to get 4400cl17 with 1.3v and 1.375V io/sa


----------



## Gen.

4600 17-17-2T 1.500V (1.504V HWInfo). My stresses on IMC were with a margin.

P.S. I want to see about you, dear forum users, 4700+ and preferably CR=1 at LGA1200!


----------



## andrvas

Nilsagard said:


> I have some trouble with getting RAM stable.
> I use 4 sticks of Dominator platinum 3600 mhz that easily OC'd to 4300 with my 8700k setup (at my current motherboard Asus Maximus XI). However, I have changed to a 9900ks since at least 6 months, and cannot get frequencys stable past 4133 mhz.
> Same settings like the 8700k.
> It can pass karhu for 8 hours straight with 4266 or 4300 mhz (18-21-21-42 2T + tight sub-timings), but the out of the sudden (randomly) crash with IRQ NOT LESS OR EQUAL, or critical process died. Often related to ntoskrnl.exe.
> 
> I have tried VCCSA and VCCIO up to 1,3v, increased RAM volt to 1.5v, increased core voltage and a million other minor settings with the same outcome.
> 
> Is my CPU limiting the RAM speed?


Whats your trfc and trefi set to? CPU cache ratio? Tried vccio and vccsa at 1.35v? Hows your testing methodology, tried any other stress tests besides karhu?


----------



## Nizzen

Gen. said:


> 4600 17-17-2T 1.500V (1.504V HWInfo). My stresses on IMC were with a margin.
> 
> P.S. I want to see about you, dear forum users, 4700+ and preferably CR=1 at LGA1200!


😉


----------



## Gen.

@Nizzen


----------



## eminded1

Nice result /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Did you try 2x8GB of the Patriots or was that all 4 sticks? Daisy chain topology, right?
I think I need 1.64v DRAM with the viper steels to get 4400cl17 with 1.3v and 1.375V io/sa[/QUOTE]

I tried both 4x8gb of the patroit 4400,s its topology for the z490 hero, I tried 2x8gb both kits i could.boot at 4400 and even 4000 but would not be stable under any voltage and it was stable at 3900 at stock timings. Really weird its like the new patriots are not clocking nice I had 4x8gb on an old z390 hero w i9 9900k and I could run them at 4300 at c16 and they ran great. But I'm satisfied with the 4400 and 16gb until the 4500 2x16gb kits come out those will be pretty nice at cas 18 at 4500 those will clock nice. I'm having better luck with gskill. Also I have some gskill 3600c15d gtz,s and they even go to 4300 at c17 with 1.54 and low io and sa. They need to come out with better kits soon. I mean another generation of intel chips out and were still using 2016 ddr4 technology in 2020 they need to make ddr5 soon.


----------



## _AntLionBR_

My configuration for now... what could still improve?

I am setting the minimum possible for clocks at 3600mhz.
Secondary timings what can I improve?
Tertiary timings are all on AUTO.

Galax OC Lab Aurora 8x8Gb 4000MHz 19-25-25-45 1.4V


----------



## xSneak

Swapped my 16GB kit out for one of the 32GB 4000cl19 kits. This is what I got at 1.40v so far. I would need a fan cooling them to run at a higher voltage due to temperature related errors showing up. 
I'm trying to sell the 16gb kit if anyone is interested, rated at 4700mhz cl 19.


----------



## ogider

f4-3200c14d-32GTZ 2x16GB
5.0 cache 4.7 10900k
DDR4 1.51V / SA 1.35 /IO 1.32




Latency went up about 0.7 in compare to my 4300C16 16 16


----------



## andrvas

Kingston HyperX Fury 3600 C17 (Hynix DJR "D-die") @ 4133 C17, tweaked sub-timings. Reached the limit of this combo atm, latency is not great, but they were almost half the price of b-die, so I'm not disappointed. Anyways a great upgrade from my previous 2666 C15 sticks.


----------



## ogider

f4-3200c14d-32GTZ 2x16GB
5.0 cache 4.7 10900k

Temps and Voltages for memory during tests on screen.


----------



## SunnyStefan

ogider said:


> f4-3200c14d-32GTZ 2x16GB
> 5.0 cache 4.7 10900k
> 
> Temps and Voltages for memory during tests on screen.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



That's an impressively high frequency for dual rank modules, that motherboard seems to be living up to the hype.


Have you messed around with a 1T command rate at all? I know the trade off in performance is probably not worthwhile, but I'm itching to know how that MSI board handles CR1. From what I've seen so far, ASUS is the only manufacturer with Z490 motherboards capable of running DR sticks above 4000mhz with 1T (probably because of their trace centering BIOS feature).


----------



## ogider

SunnyStefan said:


> Have you messed around with a 1T command rate at all? .


I can't stabilize even at 3600 CR1. And these modules worked on z370 taichi with 3700x cl 14 14 14 cr1

I guess I have to wait for better bios versions


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SunnyStefan said:


> That's an impressively high frequency for dual rank modules, that motherboard seems to be living up to the hype.
> 
> 
> Have you messed around with a 1T command rate at all? I know the trade off in performance is probably not worthwhile, but I'm itching to know how that MSI board handles CR1. From what I've seen so far, ASUS is the only manufacturer with Z490 motherboards capable of running DR sticks above 4000mhz with 1T (probably because of their trace centering BIOS feature).



MSI always works on new dies much earlier than ASUS. It was only a recent BIOS (0054) that ASUS unlocked DR B-die and improved DR B-die OC in 0062.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> I can't stabilize even at 3600 CR1. And these modules worked on z370 taichi with 3700x cl 14 14 14 cr1
> 
> I guess I have to wait for better bios versions


ASUS Mode 2 works better for CR1. Probably MSI has some special switches too. How's the memory force change under CR1?


----------



## SunnyStefan

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> MSI always works on new dies much earlier than ASUS. It was only a recent BIOS (0054) that ASUS unlocked DR B-die and improved DR B-die OC in 0062.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that this trend was the same on Intel's previous gen (Z390) too.

If you wanted to run dual rank B-die RAM on Z390 with:


Frequency: 4000mhz (+)
Cas Latency: 15-18
Command Rate: 1T
Voltages: Sane for daily usage
You either bought an ASUS Maximus motherboard (Apex, Gene, etc) or you were **** out of luck. The only exception I can think of is with EVGA's Dark motherboard, and even then I don't think it was as capable for _this specific _setup.


----------



## ogider

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> How's the memory force change under CR1?


I could training memory at 3000 cr1 cl 14 flat lol. 3200MHz not even allow to enter bios.

At 3000 cr1 cl 14 flat bar was like that


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SunnyStefan said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that this trend was the same on Intel's previous gen (Z390) too.
> 
> If you wanted to run dual rank B-die RAM on Z390 with:
> 
> 
> Frequency: 4000mhz (+)
> Cas Latency: 15-18
> Command Rate: 1T
> Voltages: Sane for daily usage
> You either bought an ASUS Maximus motherboard (Apex, Gene, etc) or you were **** out of luck. The only exception I can think of is with EVGA's Dark motherboard, and even then I don't think it was as capable for _this specific _setup.


WR was done using MSI Z390i Edge


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> I could training memory at 3000 cr1 cl 14 flat lol. 3200MHz not even allow to enter bios.
> 
> At 3000 cr1 cl 14 flat bar was like that


seems strong enough. Usually imc can handle the signal when this bar is 27 and above. You can place a sticker on the screen to mark the divisions.


----------



## SunnyStefan

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> WR was done using MSI Z390i Edge



Is this the validation you are referencing with that image? He used liquid nitrogen, with very high voltages, only one SR stick, 2T command rate, etc.



I'm not saying MSI boards are bad or anything of the sort. They make some damn good motherboards that are amazing at reaching high speed frequencies with B-die (SR & DR).


I was hoping MSI's Z490I Unify would be able to handle DR B-die @ 4000mhz+ / 1T with reasonable voltages / cooling for daily usage. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it's any better than ASRock's Z490 lineup _in this regard_. Hopefully a BIOS update changes this, but I'm not holding my breath...


----------



## HREN

Hi all.
Asus Formula XII 10900k (sp 91)@5000avx 1.29v (for 24/7) & [email protected] 1.43v (for benchs)
g.skill 4x8gb [email protected] 1.45v
2080ti

Karhu test - 1.5h - ok
testmem5 - 1.5h - ok
prime95 12hs - ok


----------



## reflex75

HREN said:


> Hi all.
> prime95 12hs - ok


Hi,
Nice, but you don't need hours of testing RAM stability. 
Just need to increase RAM temperature to find highest stable temp for your settings you are comfortable with. 
In your case, after 12 hours of testing, it's possible to crash in just few minutes when playing games for instance, because of the GPU throwing hot air on the RAM modules...


----------



## HREN

reflex75 said:


> Hi,
> Nice, but you don't need hours of testing RAM stability.
> Just need to increase RAM temperature to find highest stable temp for your settings you are comfortable with.
> In your case, after 12 hours of testing, it's possible to crash in just few minutes when playing games for instance, because of the GPU throwing hot air on the RAM modules...


Everything is fine with games. The prime95 for 12 hours was with a large FFT setting, one and a half to two hours of memtest5 and Karhu. Which, in principle, is enough to identify 98% of the problems. The remaining 2% in terms of using a computer (games) is not important for me. For calculations and rendering, I use a system on amd 2950x with a memory of 2133 in nominal value.


----------



## warbucks

My daily driver is currently 5.1GHz---4.7Ghz-cache---1.46Vcore(1.32 load)---LLC5---1.37SA---1.33IO---1.5VDIMM---4000Mhz-15-16-36-2T

My chip is SP78, but I think the IMC isn't very good. I had cache up to 48x but needed to bump SA/IO up higher. I have a 2x16GB b-die kit I'm going to throw in and see how far I can push it next.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

HREN said:


> Hi all.
> Asus Formula XII 10900k (sp 91)@5000avx 1.29v (for 24/7) & [email protected] 1.43v (for benchs)
> g.skill 4x8gb [email protected] 1.45v
> 2080ti
> 
> Karhu test - 1.5h - ok
> testmem5 - 1.5h - ok
> prime95 12hs - ok


What was your VCore in BIOS? R20 score is a little low. 5.3GHz should easily reach 6900+


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> HREN said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all.
> Asus Formula XII 10900k (sp 91)@5000avx 1.29v (for 24/7) & [email protected] 1.43v (for benchs)
> g.skill 4x8gb [email protected] 1.45v
> 2080ti
> 
> Karhu test - 1.5h - ok
> testmem5 - 1.5h - ok
> prime95 12hs - ok
> 
> 
> 
> What was your VCore in BIOS? R20 score is a little low. 5.3GHz should easily reach 6900+
Click to expand...

Only 4700 ring and a bit slow memory. That is why the score is a bit "low"


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Only 4700 ring and a bit slow memory. That is why the score is a bit "low"


5.3GHz core, 5000 ring and 4200 16-16-34 memory was 6948.


----------



## HREN

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> What was your VCore in BIOS? R20 score is a little low. 5.3GHz should easily reach 6900+


1.43v LLC6
ring 4800 and slow memory (4000c16) - 4x8gb memory is slower than 2x8gb. If my memory worked for 4400-4600, you would be right.
Unfortunately, there is no reliability with memory 4x8 above 4100с17


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

HREN said:


> 1.43v
> ring 4800 and slow memory (4000c16) - 4x8gb memory is slower than 2x8gb. If my memory worked for 4400-4600, you would be right.
> Unfortunately, there is no reliability with memory 4x8 above 4100с17


Check my comment above. Besides, 4600 memory 5.3Ghz core and 5000 ring was 7000+. I was concerning your chip was throttling but your VCore was fine, should not be that reason. You might have run too many programs at that time.


----------



## HREN

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Check my comment above. Besides, 4600 memory 5.3Ghz core and 5000 ring was 7000+. I was concerning your chip was throttling but your VCore was fine, should not be that reason. You might have run too many programs at that time.


You were right. I installed Windows again - the R20 test became 6940 at [email protected] 4000c16 and 5000 ring


----------



## Gregix

Guys...
At the moment I'm in process of testing Patriots at [email protected]/15/15/31/2t and so far, seems stable(Ram test need night run, games seems stable). Was trying 4100c16, no issues here either.
I jumped on viper steel 4400Mhz C19 from CorsairLPX 4500C19(I was running them like 1.5y @4200c17) just from curiosity. Vipers seems more...agile...anyway, can do more with them than with corsair. 

Question is, from purely gaming purposes, 4000C15 is enough or should I try get like 4266 or so C17? I do not need bench records, just stable gaming with higher 0,1%lows.
But another thing is z370 Taichi, or my IMC in 8086 are kinda suck, actually 4266 was max I was able to boot...so just don't know should I bother with endless attempts to train and boot memorys at higher than 4200Mhz speeds...


----------



## ogider

I had same on z370 taichi. 4266c17 tight.
U can try 4000c15 cr1 but thats gonna need 1.5-1.52V
also i rise 1-2 voltages to avoid cold start. When 1 day u profile is fine and day after not even bootable.


----------



## blu3dragon

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice here at the best way to get to 32Gb for a daily 24x7 stable system with as much memory performance as possible.

It seems I can go one of two ways here:

4x8gb sticks via two 2x8Gb kits of 'b' die. Something like:
G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-4000 CL19 for $110/kit (220 total).
I could also stretch to the patriot DDR4-4400 kit for $260 total if that is likely to be much better.

2x16gb sticks of 'b' die. Something like:
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL14 for $200

From what I can gather the 4x8Gb configuration is likely to clock higher than the 2x16Gb, so I'm thinking the best option is a $200-300 board with 4x8Gb.

The other option is an apex with the 2x16Gb sticks. Is that likely to clock higher than a more "normal" board with 4x8Gb?

The Apex sounds like it would be fun, but I'm not really going to be pushing the cpu that far or using the other advanced oc features on that board, so possibly wasting my $$ there.

It seems like I would get around the same cpu speed out of any $200+ motherboard given that I'm not going to go extreme on the cooling for this build (figure a 240mm AIO).
Just from the https://greentechreviews.ru/ reviews, I do see some variability on the memory speeds though. Ranging from 4200 on the Asus prime-p, 4500 on prime-a, then 4600 on everything else up to the apex which ran at 5000 for them. I'm not sure if the prime-a is really any different to the 230+ ROG boards when it comes to memory clocks though. If not, then that board has everything else I'd need.

Thoughts?


----------



## HREN

blu3dragon said:


> Hi all, I'm looking for some advice here at the best way to get to 32Gb for a daily 24x7 stable system with as much memory performance as possible.
> 
> It seems I can go one of two ways here:
> 
> 4x8gb sticks via two 2x8Gb kits of 'b' die. Something like:
> G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-4000 CL19 for $110/kit (220 total).
> I could also stretch to the patriot DDR4-4400 kit for $260 total if that is likely to be much better.
> 
> 2x16gb sticks of 'b' die. Something like:
> G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL14 for $200
> 
> From what I can gather the 4x8Gb configuration is likely to clock higher than the 2x16Gb, so I'm thinking the best option is a $200-300 board with 4x8Gb.
> 
> The other option is an apex with the 2x16Gb sticks. Is that likely to clock higher than a more "normal" board with 4x8Gb?
> 
> The Apex sounds like it would be fun, but I'm not really going to be pushing the cpu that far or using the other advanced oc features on that board, so possibly wasting my $$ there.
> 
> It seems like I would get around the same cpu speed out of any $200+ motherboard given that I'm not going to go extreme on the cooling for this build (figure a 240mm AIO).
> Just from the https://greentechreviews.ru/ reviews, I do see some variability on the memory speeds though. Ranging from 4200 on the Asus prime-p, 4500 on prime-a, then 4600 on everything else up to the apex which ran at 5000 for them. I'm not sure if the prime-a is really any different to the 230+ ROG boards when it comes to memory clocks though. If not, then that board has everything else I'd need.
> 
> Thoughts?


4x8 at the same frequency and timings faster than 2x16.
Apex is needed to work with memory above 4400+ (4600-5000), up to 4400 you will get about the same on Formula or Extreme. I have Apex 11 and Formula 12. If you do not need memory tests for 4600+, for 24/7 it is better to take 2x16 4000c19 for Apex, and 4x8 for Formula. The difference in games between 2x8 4000c19 and 2x8 4000c17 with configured timings will be 1-2%
The best inexpensive 4x8 sets will be - g.skill 3200c14 and 3600c16. They work easily 4000c17 and even 4000c16


----------



## blu3dragon

HREN said:


> 4x8 at the same frequency and timings faster than 2x16.
> Apex is needed to work with memory above 4400+ (4600-5000), up to 4400 you will get about the same on Formula or Extreme. I have Apex 11 and Formula 12. If you do not need memory tests for 4600+, for 24/7 it is better to take 2x16 4000c19 for Apex, and 4x8 for Formula. The difference in games between 2x8 4000c19 and 2x8 4000c17 with configured timings will be 1-2%
> The best inexpensive 4x8 sets will be - g.skill 3200c14 and 3600c16. They work easily 4000c17 and even 4000c16


Thanks! Sounds like 4x8 is the way to go here... Seems like I should really be comparing apex vs hero based on pricing. As far as I can tell, hero has the same memory layout as formula or extreme, and would be slightly better than the strix boards.


----------



## AeonMW2

AeonMW2 said:


> I'm seems to be stuck with memory OC and don't know what's my problem
> 
> i9-10900K 5.1 all core / 4.6 cache (vcore 1.25 under heavy load, ~1.3 idle)
> Viper Steel 4400 C19 (2x8 kit)
> Gigabyte z490 Vision G
> 
> I can run up to 3800 MT/s with XMP timings just fine.
> I can run 3800 MT/s with manual tight timings just fine. (3800 15-16-16-33 tRC 46 tCWL 14 tFAW 16 tWR 12 tRTP 10). vDRAM 1.45, VCCIO/VCCSA 1.23
> 
> But as soon as I try to go for 4400, I'm unstable no matter what.
> I have tried XMP 4400 / manual 4400 with very loose timigs. I have tried IO/SA voltages up to 1.36v (doesn't seem to be IO/SA issue, right? 1.36 is already pretty high). No success.
> 
> I can boot to windows with 4400 XMP quite easily. I can pass memtest helper 300% easy too (so it tells me memory itself is fine and problem somewhere else?)
> But i'm always loosing threads in prime95 blend with rounding errors. Also PC just randomly freezes even without much stress (while browsing for example).
> 
> Where should I move next?


soo it turns out I need at least 1.34 IO / 1.34 SA to be stable at 4400 cl19 in TM5 extreme preset. 1.33v IO already not stable. I'm 100% IO voltage limited
is my 10900K's IMC a complete dud at this point?
is it safe to run 24/7 with 1.34 IO ? (SA looks kinda fine tho, I'm worried about high IO)


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

10900k -- Apex XII -- 4000C19D-32GTZKK (2x16GB) 400% HCI Memtest:


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Nice looks like c16 though.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 10900k -- Apex XII -- 4000C19D-32GTZKK (2x16GB) 400% HCI Memtest:


nice sticks!


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Can someone please teach me how to properly use TM5? I've replaced the config file as instructed in the tm5 download thread. Not sure what the basics of the program are, the program just runs automatically when i open it. Also curious about run times etc.

EDIT: okay so tm5 went through 5 cycles, no errors detected. Is that all there is to using tm5, like just roughly a 40 minute test and the mem oc is deemed stable?

This is what it is testing so far.


----------



## ThrashZone

XGS-Duplicity said:


> nice sticks!


Hi,
Yeah 4k mhz on c19 doing 16-16-16-32 lol Nice


----------



## SoldierRBT

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 10900k -- Apex XII -- 4000C19D-32GTZKK (2x16GB) 400% HCI Memtest:


Strong results.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah 4k mhz on c19 doing 16-16-16-32 lol Nice


only an extra 50mv to drop down 3 cas steps down to cas 16, very nice


----------



## Gregix

ogider said:


> I had same on z370 taichi. 4266c17 tight.
> U can try 4000c15 cr1 but thats gonna need 1.5-1.52V
> also i rise 1-2 voltages to avoid cold start. When 1 day u profile is fine and day after not even bootable.


OK, did that, cr1 I mean. VDram was already near 1.5, now HWM64 says is 1.536v. Seems stable so far, 2cr was like 24k% on ramtest when I stopped it, always can go back if needed.
Almost no gains gaming wise from cr1.

What voltages had you in mind to rise? I have had some cold resets, but after some changes, do not remember where, now is OK. Would like to know for sure which voltages did that.


----------



## ogider

Gregix said:


> OK, did that, cr1 I mean. VDram was already near 1.5, now HWM64 says is 1.536v. Seems stable so far, 2cr was like 24k% on ramtest when I stopped it, always can go back if needed.
> Almost no gains gaming wise from cr1.
> 
> What voltages had you in mind to rise? I have had some cold resets, but after some changes, do not remember where, now is OK. Would like to know for sure which voltages did that.


Not sure if I remember. I usually set everything manually anyway. 

I have this screen on my cloud from old hardware.


----------



## Nizzen

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 10900k -- Apex XII -- 4000C19D-32GTZKK (2x16GB) 400% HCI Memtest:


Pleace post Aida 64 memory benchmark 🙂

Nice job 🙂


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

9900K - Z390 Aorus Master - 5.2/cores 4.8/cache HT/OFF - 4x8GB 4200MHz 17-18-18-38-2T - 1.45v/Vdimm 1.35v/SA-IO - TM5


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> 9900K - Z390 Aorus Master - 5.2/cores 4.8/cache HT/OFF - 4x8GB 4200MHz 17-18-18-38-2T - 1.45v/Vdimm 1.35v/SA-IO - TM5


Try extreme1 preset.
Here just use this.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Falkentyne said:


> Try extreme1 preset.
> Here just use this.


TY. How extreme is it? Ambient is 93F right now LOL. central AC gets fixed next week. ram sticks heated up to maximum of 48.8c during the screenshotted run.

EDIT: i'm running extreme now, how long or how many cycles is this test? it is almost 30 minutes in and still in the first cycle.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Nizzen said:


> Pleace post Aida 64 memory benchmark 🙂
> 
> Nice job 🙂




thinking someone would ask that.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> TY. How extreme is it? Ambient is 93F right now LOL. central AC gets fixed next week. ram sticks heated up to maximum of 48.8c during the screenshotted run.
> 
> EDIT: i'm running extreme now, how long or how many cycles is this test? it is almost 30 minutes in and still in the first cycle.


Takes about an hour and a half to run through 3 cycles.
The .cfg file is all that needs changing to make it run different tests but you have to delete the Cfg.link file in the .bin folder when changing the config file 



MrTOOSHORT said:


> thinking someone would ask that.


What's the main advantage of running 2x16GB?
It looks a lot tougher to get the numbers up in Aida.

Edit: Read your answer below lol


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

munternet said:


> Takes about an hour and a half to run through 3 cycles.
> The .cfg file is all that needs changing to make it run different tests but you have to delete the Cfg.link file in the .bin folder when changing the config file
> 
> 
> 
> What's the main advantage of running 2x16GB?
> It looks a lot tougher to get the numbers up in Aida.



To have 32gb of ram vs 16gb.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ok so an error occurred during the second cycle of tm5 extreme. Sticks topped out at 49c. ambient is 91F right now. Is this a heat related error or is this timing related? btw, small noctua fan is stuck in transit, any day now. Here are the timings.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> ok so an error occurred during the second cycle of tm5 extreme. Sticks topped out at 49c. ambient is 91F right now. Is this a heat related error or is this timing related? btw, small noctua fan is stuck in transit, any day now. Here are the timings.


You can wait for your fan to arrive and save that profile. Very possible it's heat related.
Might have to ease off on something for now or raise the voltages a little to see if it overcomes it


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> You can wait for your fan to arrive and save that profile. Very possible it's heat related.
> Might have to ease off on something for now or raise the voltages a little to see if it overcomes it


If i raise vdimm to 1.46v it errors quickly in karhu. tried back n forth with sa/io adjustments. hopefully AC gets fixed next week, i miss 72F ambient. Dang liquid in the aio is hitting 40c lol. Fan is now scheduled to arrive on monday.

EDIT: I just noticed I had tcwl at 14. Thought I had it at 16, must have forgotten to adjust from a different profile. Will have to test it again at 16.


----------



## blu3dragon

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 10900k -- Apex XII -- 4000C19D-32GTZKK (2x16GB) 400% HCI Memtest:


Pretty sweet, and good data for my own build 

Have you tried going higher in frequency yet?


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> If i raise vdimm to 1.46v it errors quickly in karhu. tried back n forth with sa/io adjustments. hopefully AC gets fixed next week, i miss 72F ambient. Dang liquid in the aio is hitting 40c lol. Fan is now scheduled to arrive on monday.
> 
> EDIT: I just noticed I had tcwl at 14. Thought I had it at 16, must have forgotten to adjust from a different profile. Will have to test it again at 16.


Just noticed your edit.
Before I saw it I had typed this out  :

There are a few things you can try depending on your goals
You could try raising tCL to 18 and see if that makes it more stable. By doing this you might find you can lower the IO-Ls to 6 or 7 and see what else you can tighten with it and even improve Aida scores.
You could also leave tCL as is and raise tCWL to 16, tWRRD_sg/dg to 30/26 and try to lower RTLs.
tWR can be 16 for stability. I found no real gains lowering it with 2x8GB and tRRD_L of 6 gives a little head room with little performance hit.
Edit: On my current overclock I have raised tWRRD_sg/dg to 38/30 tWTR_L/S 16/8 to get rid of a couple of errors. Still going strong with little performance hit and allowing 4400-17-17-17-37-2T as my fav daily


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

blu3dragon said:


> Pretty sweet, and good data for my own build
> 
> Have you tried going higher in frequency yet?


Tried it a while back, but was at 3600 cl 15 for the longest time. This morning tried 4000 cl16 and got it to work. I posted 4266, but was very unstable.


----------



## munternet

Had a power cut today and PC was off for a few hours and when I tried to turn it on it was cycling through error 23 fast.
I changed the boot voltages from auto. VCCIO to 1.3 and VCCSA to 1.35 and this seemed to fix it straight away. (IO/SA running voltages are 1.3 and 1.375)
Is this what people mean by cold boot problems and is this the way to remedy it? 
Normally my PC runs for weeks on end without shutting it down and then only for a quick reboot.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

9900K - Z390 Aorus Master - 5.2GHz/Cores 4.8Ghz/Cache 8C/8T - 4x8GB 4200MHz 17-18-18-38-2T 1.45v/VDimm 1.3v/SA-IO - TM5 EXTREME 

Ram kit used: G.SKILL F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
Bios used: F9










Performance - Will have to work on maxing out trefi and possibly lowering trfc. Could maybe bring latency down by a nanosecond and increase reads/copy a bit. still meat left on the table but ambient isn't exactly the best right now ;/.


----------



## Marcel1ne

ogider said:


> f4-3200c14d-32GTZ 2x16GB
> 5.0 cache 4.7 10900k
> 
> Temps and Voltages for memory during tests on screen.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


very good results,
it looks like lga 1200 works very well with DR memory.

with 1151v2 i can only get poor 4300mhz DR:


Spoiler


----------



## Intrud3r

I managed to get to 4100 C16 with my new g.skill kit.

Still needs further testing, but it's looking good so far.

(mem kit is 3600-16-16-16-36)


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

9900K - Z390 Aorus Master - 5.2GHz/Cores 4.8Ghz/Cache 8C/8T - 4x8GB 4200MHz 16-16-16-36-2T 1.53v/VDimm 1.3v/SA-IO - TM5 EXTREME

Ram kit used: G.SKILL F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
Bios used: F9










Performance - Will have to see if I can raise trefi/lower trfc some, but for now.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> 9900K - Z390 Aorus Master - 5.2GHz/Cores 4.8Ghz/Cache 8C/8T - 4x8GB 4200MHz 16-16-16-36-2T 1.53v/VDimm 1.3v/SA-IO - TM5 EXTREME
> 
> Ram kit used: G.SKILL F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
> Bios used: F9
> 
> Performance - Will have to see if I can raise trefi/lower trfc some, but for now.


Never had as much success lowering tRFC and raising tREFI as lowering RTLs and IO-Ls
Now that tCWL is higher it might be possible


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Never had as much success lowering tRFC and raising tREFI as lowering RTLs and IO-Ls
> Now that tCWL is higher it might be possible


Unfortnately last time I checked the gigabyte z390 bioses do not allow for rtl/iol adjustment for frequencies 4000mhz and higher. Tried all the bioses. If i want to decrease latency any further, my only options are to drop primaries lower and/or tune trefi/trfc since the other timings are as low as they can go before performance floors or doesn't train. Right now ambient is too high, my central air unit is scheduled for a replacement, house is 93c right now. Too hot to stress test cl15-4200 or cl16-4200 with higher trefi/lower trfc right now, will try it tonight when temps go down a little.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Unfortnately last time I checked the gigabyte z390 bioses do not allow for rtl/iol adjustment for frequencies 4000mhz and higher. Tried all the bioses. If i want to decrease latency any further, my only options are to drop primaries lower and/or tune trefi/trfc since the other timings are as low as they can go before performance floors or doesn't train. Right now ambient is too high, my central air unit is scheduled for a replacement, house is 93c right now. Too hot to stress test cl15-4200 or cl16-4200 with higher trefi/lower trfc right now, will try it tonight when temps go down a little.


Sorry, forgot they don't do it.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Sorry, forgot they don't do it.


meh, we only human, no biggie, apology not accepted. lol


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> meh, we only human, no biggie, apology not accepted. lol


That's actually a pretty good result already for 4x8


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> That's actually a pretty good result already for 4x8


Thank you . It took me about 12 months of bios tinkering and analyzing to figure out how to do it on this board and still be memtest stable across reboots/shutdowns with a kit that normally wouldn't train 4200 memory strap except at cas 18 with dram voltage set to auto lol. I'm going to aim for cl15-4200 tonight. cross yee fingers


----------



## munternet

Intrud3r said:


> I managed to get to 4100 C16 with my new g.skill kit.
> 
> Still needs further testing, but it's looking good so far.
> 
> (mem kit is 3600-16-16-16-36)


What ram kit is that?


----------



## Intrud3r

munternet said:


> What ram kit is that?


The kit used is:
G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-3600C16Q-32GTRS

Dropped down to 4000 C16 again as I got some errors later on testing.
Can boot up to 4400 C17 and get into windows, but it isn't stable. Needs more testing.

Ran Karhu overnight at 4000-16-16-16-36-374 @ 1.440V and got no errors.


----------



## Gregix

Well, I am kinda confused and angry now.
I am using short benchmarks, like OpenVR benchmark and World of Tanks Encore for testing gains/losses with memory tweaking and ofc aida64. If it passes with good results, I ran karhu then.
Yesterday had spike while testing, like normaly my results in WOTE is like 40300-41200 on Vipers running 4000-4100 c15 c16 respectively and max/repeatable I saw till some moment was ~41250pts.
But there was spike on 4000c15 yesterday, 44087pts. It is like 10% gain. But karhu ram test picked 1 error at 1409. I saved this ram/oc profile to flash, but cannot now reload this in way it was. It just runs fine, like 39,7ns aida, plus 40400-40800 WOTE, karhu runs 24000% over night...
I suspect RTLs and IOLs are key here, as they can vary...
Other thing is I cannot back to ~41000pts area, one plus is my OpenVr benchmark mostly stays on "exceeds resutls for this GFX/HMD setup"
And as for 4000c15t1 FFS, there should be like 36-37ns in aida latency from what i saw in this thread...


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

9900K - Z390 Aorus Master - 5.2GHz/Cores 4.8Ghz/Cache 8C/8T - [email protected] 14-14-14-30-2T 1.56v/Vdimm 1.3v/SA-IO - TM5 EXTREME
Ram kit used: G.SKILL F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
Bios used: F9


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> 9900K - Z390 Aorus Master - 5.2GHz/Cores 4.8Ghz/Cache 8C/8T - [email protected] 14-14-14-30-2T 1.56v/Vdimm 1.3v/SA-IO - TM5 EXTREME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I normally use this profile with 5.3ghz and 4.9cache 8C/8T + 65534 trefi for 35.0ns latency. Trefi @ 65534 failed twice in tm5, once at the beginning of the second cycle and again at the end of the first cycle. May end up seeing if an extra 10mv vdimm or vcore helps at all otherwise i'll have to actually spend the time to fine tune the trefi and test with 4.9ghz cache etc.


Nice job!


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> Nice job!


Thank you . Feels good to stablize that profile after 6 months of tinkering on an off with it. I edited out the aida benchmark because its using 65534 trefi and 53/49 multipliers, i'll have to add a new one with the multipliers that this profile was tested with. Ambient was a bit higher compared to testing from last night, maybe 4 degrees difference. Water in the aio went above 40. fans/pump for this kraken x72 stopped running at max speed and dropped down to 1200/2000 rpms at some point during the 3rd cycle. Not sure what to think of that, kind of concerned about cam software behavior when the computer is being stressed via testing. I think tonight we test the full flat c14-3933mhz profile.

EDIT: Here is the updated benchmark at 52/48 multipliers 8C/8T with trefi that was tm5 tested @ 32768. If i up it to 53/49, latency goes down to 35.2ns. Just have to raise trefi enough to drop another .2ns off latency for a flat 35.0ns with 53/49, or 35.3ns with 52/48, or 35.1ns with 52/49. unfortunately ambient is worse tonight than the last couple nights so i can't tune/test quite yet, unable to align rtls/iols for 3800/3866/3900/3933 c14 memory straps unless aio liquid is under 29c. Maybe temps will drop in a few hours, still aiming for c14-3933.


----------



## Intrud3r

Retuned an tested my 4000 16-16-16 settings:


----------



## Gregix

Finally. Found my holy grail(for now).
Mems Patriot steel viper 4400C19 working at 4000-15-15-15-32cr2.
They can do 3700 14-14-14-32 cr1 or cr2 too(ramtest done till 2000%), and 3900 14-14-14-32 cr2(ramtest 1000%) but don't know which setting in bios causes stutter in random moments while benchmarking WOTe so had to give up on this.
I guess I had something wrong with my daily runner prior this, ie corsair venegance lpx [email protected] as aida64 latency was 41-42ns area and WOTe scored lower. But they were weird anyway, max boot was 4266 stock/auto while patriots did 4300. No success on changing primaries st that speeds on both though...bad mobo.
Now I need to find lower Vdram, 1,5v for daily use seems bit too high.


----------



## munternet

Gregix said:


> Finally. Found my holy grail(for now).
> Mems Patriot steel viper 4400C19 working at 4000-15-15-15-32cr2.
> They can do 3700 14-14-14-32 cr1 or cr2 too(ramtest done till 2000%), and 3900 14-14-14-32 cr2(ramtest 1000%) but don't know which setting in bios causes stutter in random moments while benchmarking WOTe so had to give up on this.
> I guess I had something wrong with my daily runner prior this, ie corsair venegance lpx [email protected] as aida64 latency was 41-42ns area and WOTe scored lower. But they were weird anyway, max boot was 4266 stock/auto while patriots did 4300. No success on changing primaries st that speeds on both though...bad mobo.
> Now I need to find lower Vdram, 1,5v for daily use seems bit too high.


Nice :thumb:
Running the same sticks, set @ 1.64 VDRAM as daily for a few weeks now. As long as they don't get too hot and error they will be fine 
I found many holy grails


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Running the same sticks set @ 1.64 VDRAM as daily for a few weeks now. As long as they don't get too hot and error they will be fine
> I found many holy grails


The thing is these Viper sticks do not have a temp sensor on them. I have a 140mm fan stripped in place ontop of mine just in case.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> The thing is these Viper sticks do not have a temp sensor on them. I have a 140mm fan stripped in place ontop of mine just in case.


Yeah, I know what you mean. I ran a similar overclock with my G.Skills first to check the temp and get a general idea then swapped them out. They only see mid 30s with the water cooling.


----------



## Imprezzion

1,5v DRAM isn't high at all lol. I'm many months into running a Vengeance RGB 3466 CL16 B-Die kit at 4200 16-17-17-34-320-2T at 1.556v DRAM and they do just fine. With a 140mm pointed at them they run about 38-42c but don't get unstable at those temps. I turned off the fan once during a HCI run to see how hot they could get before they got unstable. It ran for several hours but around 49c is where they start to fall off and error out so, got a bit of room temp wise. 

Even with 30c+ ambients with the A/C running the most they ever saw was 45c and no instability at all.

These sticks passed many months of gaming and a full 12000% HCI run over night.

I do have a second profile saved which is 4133 17-17-17-28-280 @ 1.44v and that gets way less hot and is just a bit more "safe" in general if I ever do run into summer heat issues or instability.


----------



## Thebc2

Hey guys, currently running 10900k/Asus Maximus XII Formula and the following g.skill 4x8 b die kit: https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1536563902/F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR-Specification

After much tweaking I finally have it HCI stable at 4133cl17 and tightened up some of the secondary and tertiary timings to improve bandwidth and latency. Any advice for further tweaks to potentially push this further?











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Thebc2 said:


> Hey guys, currently running 10900k/Asus Maximus XII Formula and the following g.skill 4x8 b die kit: https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1536563902/F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR-Specification
> 
> After much tweaking I finally have it HCI stable at 4133cl17 and tightened up some of the secondary and tertiary timings to improve bandwidth and latency. Any advice for further tweaks to potentially push this further?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


What happens if you raise tcke to 8 or raise trtp to 8? Does latency improve?


----------



## Gregix

RTL/IOL offset little lower? That should boost latency I think. May be wrong though....


----------



## MVTK

z390 Aoru Master with i9900KS 5ghz with 48 ring

It's a gaming pc.

XMP:

G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3733C17-8GTZR 
@ 1869 MHz 17-17-17-37 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 54-655-486-300-10-7-45 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
auto 1.35v
auto 1.29v IO (seems high)
auto 1.30v SA (also seems high)


It's samsung b-die

I am not a memory expert.
I would like to run this memory at 3800-3900 with a low latency, no extremes.

May anyone provide me with some timings and voltages I can start with?


----------



## munternet

MVTK said:


> z390 Aoru Master with i9900KS 5ghz with 48 ring
> 
> It's a gaming pc.
> 
> XMP:
> 
> G Skill TridentZ RGB F4-3733C17-8GTZR
> @ 1869 MHz 17-17-17-37 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 54-655-486-300-10-7-45 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
> auto 1.35v
> auto 1.29v IO (seems high)
> auto 1.30v SA (also seems high)
> 
> 
> It's samsung b-die
> 
> I am not a memory expert.
> I would like to run this memory at 3800-3900 with a low latency, no extremes.
> 
> May anyone provide me with some timings and voltages I can start with?


How many sticks and what size ram is that?
There is a tutorial link in my sig but io and sa could probably be around 1.2v and 1.25v with VDRAM 1.35-1.4ish but there is no substitute for trial and error 
Ring can be a little lower. 47 is good with 5GHz usually.


----------



## MVTK

munternet said:


> How many sticks and what size ram is that?
> There is a tutorial link in my sig but io and sa could probably be around 1.2v and 1.25v with VDRAM 1.35-1.4ish but there is no substitute for trial and error
> Ring can be a little lower. 47 is good with 5GHz usually.



It's 4x8 single rank.
Ring at 48 was a "why not" change, it's was 47. I see no downsides with 48, am I wrong?


IO, SA and Vdram can be whatever I need to hit a good oc between 3800-4000, whatever is best for gaming. Currently they seem to be higher than the memory needs, it's on auto.


I will check your tutorial.


I would love a "recipe" of good timings I can run, without having to run tests for days fine tuning it. Something I can start with, test, fine tune a little and leave alone.


I don't really care to find the best of the best timings for my ram, since the gains would be minimum anyway. I would prefer using the time I have for gaming


----------



## munternet

MVTK said:


> It's 4x8 single rank.
> Ring at 48 was a "why not" change, it's was 47. I see no downsides with 48, am I wrong?
> 
> 
> IO, SA and Vdram can be whatever I need to hit a good oc between 3800-4000, whatever is best for gaming. Currently they seem to be higher than the memory needs, it's on auto.
> 
> 
> I will check your tutorial.
> 
> 
> I would love a "recipe" of good timings I can run, without having to run tests for days fine tuning it. Something I can start with, test, fine tune a little and leave alone.
> 
> 
> I don't really care to find the best of the best timings for my ram, since the gains would be minimum anyway. I would prefer using the time I have for gaming


You may get errors at 48 for little gain.
4000-16-16-16-36-2T should be do-able if the sticks are up to it and you optimize the voltages.
Drop the frequency or raise the timings if any errors show in TestMem5 (there is a download link in the tutorial) at 4000MHz or up the io sa or VDRAM.
You really have to put in a little bit of time to get stable results or wait for someone with the same hardware to give you a safe setup.
Start with the latest BIOS if you haven't already.
The tutorial is not mine but it's pretty decent 
Edit: There is a Aorus owners thread also https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...78-gigabyte-z390-aorus-owners-thread-945.html


----------



## Gen.

CPU Stock 4300/4000 + 4200 16-21-41-2T 1.445V (1.450V) Done. Very Good!


----------



## andrvas

Gen. said:


> CPU Stock 4300/4000 + 4200 16-21-41-2T 1.445V (1.450V) Done. Very Good!


Hows your bandwith and latency in aida64?


----------



## Gregix

Guys, is there any point in going now in 32Gb of ram?
I mean, I have soso MB, z370 Taichi. Have those Vipers at 4000c15. I am gaming only(VR lately) . I may or not see gains from going to 8Gbx4 but affraind I lost mem oc potential. 
But
I am waiting on that NEW Ryzen iteration, with high hopes, and ryzens seems have stronger IMC(at least than my CPU) so 4 slots utilization should not be a problem if I switch.

What are your thoughts?

Second question, can't find any decent results OC Teamgroup 3200 14-14-14-31 on intel platform. I tried some OC but this pack seems different than other b-die. Any user here?

NWM, i dig out this thread for info, 4x8 is no go, at least on this motherboard. 
As for teamgroup, they are weird, tried on sons pc squeeze them but no. His 8700k and ****ty mobo can't do anything proper, max was 3800c16, which suck.


----------



## ViTosS

Best BIOS atm for Apex XI Z390? Heard someone saying 1502 is one of the worst and people are using 1302, is that true? I'm here waiting for my new set of BDies...


----------



## Gen.

ViTosS said:


> Best BIOS atm for Apex XI Z390? Heard someone saying 1502 is one of the worst and people are using 1302, is that true? I'm here waiting for my new set of BDies...


I like the last 1502, others have not tried


----------



## glnn_23

Running 2 x 8Gb Team 3600c14 @ 4400c16 16 16 32 1T in an Apex XII with 10900k.
Have also run it at 4600c18 but think it is better at the lower clock and timings.


----------



## Gregix

Nice one. 
On my end, I just went from 4000c15 to 3800c14. Need to test more, but 4000c15 although was benchmark stable, and karhu ramtest went 24k+ no errors, had in game freezes. Weird. Maybe too low voltage somewhere.


----------



## ViTosS

Gregix said:


> Nice one.
> On my end, I just went from 4000c15 to 3800c14. Need to test more, but 4000c15 although was benchmark stable, and karhu ramtest went 24k+ no errors, had in game freezes. Weird. Maybe too low voltage somewhere.


I'm really impressed you could get that into a Z370 Taichi , I was really limited by mobo when I used Maximus X Hero Z370.


----------



## Jpmboy

Gregix said:


> Nice one.
> On my end, I just went from 4000c15 to 3800c14. Need to test more, but 4000c15 although was benchmark stable, and karhu ramtest went 24k+ no errors, had in game freezes. Weird. Maybe too low voltage somewhere.


Did you try a slight bump of the cpu/cache voltage for 4000c15? It is not unusual that the increased load on the IMC requires more vcore (which feeds cache on this platform) in addition to all the VCCIO and VSA discussed here.


----------



## Gregix

Yeah, that might be vcore. 
I need to test more(gaming now) as u can see, ramtest goes flawlessly.
TBH That ram goes 3900c14, but with 1.63V or more, so it is kinda no go for 24/7 for me.
3800c14 results below. Again, cr1 required too much voltage for my liking...
Temps are no issue here, when CPU/MB temp spikes up, tornado in my case starts


----------



## reflex75

Gregix said:


> Nice one.
> On my end, I just went from 4000c15 to 3800c14. Need to test more, but 4000c15 although was benchmark stable, and karhu ramtest went 24k+ no errors, had in game freezes. Weird. Maybe too low voltage somewhere.


You can be 500 hours stable at any RAM stress test, but fail in just few minutes in game if your RAM temperature increases, let's say because of your GPU. 
Temperature is a key factor to monitor for RAM stability more than any other component. 
Always keep safety room.
My RAM OC is stable until 62 degrees by the sensor on the PCB, which means the memory IC chips are much higher (85 degrees for JEDEC)
Be cautious with RAM OC, it can kill your OS and silently corrupt your files...


----------



## Roidsy

Gregix said:


> Second question, can't find any decent results OC Teamgroup 3200 14-14-14-31 on intel platform. I tried some OC but this pack seems different than other b-die. Any user here?


I used to have those, ran them at 4133 16-16-16-34 cr 2t in 2x8 and 3600 14-14-14-32 cr 1t in 4x8. Couldn't get 3733 c14 or 4266 c16 stable in any configuration (at 1.5v, that is). They would also post at 4400 cl19 in 2x8 but it would crash as soon as windows loaded so I didn't bother with that.


----------



## reflex75

New G.Skill 4x8GB 4000Mhz CL15
Tested at 3700 CL13 for better latency.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

I have a question. I started using gigabyte eztune software. I noticed using xmp automatically sets my VCCPLL OC voltage to 1.31v revealed by the eztuner software(not viewable in hwinfo64). Is this voltage something I should work on lowering or is it ok at 1.31v?

@reflex75 Nice latency . Is that 2 dimms or 4 dimms? Which test did you use for stability? have you tried cas 15 @ 4200?


----------



## reflex75

XGS-Duplicity said:


> @reflex75 Nice latency /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif. Is that 2 dimms or 4 dimms? Which test did you use for stability? have you tried cas 15 @ 4200?


Thanks.
It's 4 dimms (4x8) and just for fun and benchmark purpose, not completely stable.
I don't have fan on them, so temperature can increase pretty high during heavy gaming with my air GPU.
Stock primary timings (4000 CL15) are safer, and my motherboard doesn't like high frequency 4200+....


----------



## Gregix

Roidsy said:


> I used to have those, ran them at 4133 16-16-16-34 cr 2t in 2x8 and 3600 14-14-14-32 cr 1t in 4x8. Couldn't get 3733 c14 or 4266 c16 stable in any configuration (at 1.5v, that is). They would also post at 4400 cl19 in 2x8 but it would crash as soon as windows loaded so I didn't bother with that.


Thx man, that gives me hope, I would be happy if sons 8700k plus Msi z370 plus will take like ~3800c15 level somehow. This CPU is dud, very bad bin, and MB isn't good either.

And, for my last results, you were right guys, more juice for CPU, Vcore from 1.265 >>1.275 did the trick, no freezes in game now. Karhu ramtest still stable. Heck, I had Karhu, plus GPU-Z Render test and Aida64 stability test running same time till 2000%+, no fuz, MB temp 29 degree constant. Gaming wise(WOT) was the same temps.
It is nice to see smooth game with boosted FPS like from ~240 to ~270+ area from tweaking memory only. Most gains and finally no stutter I had from proper setting RTL /IOLs (if everything fails, read manual...in this case formula is in fkn RTL description...). I am still thinking I could squeeze more at this frequency from them...
As reminder, this is Patriot Viper Steel 4500c19 running now 3800 14-14-14-32 t2 @1.52V, 1.288 SA 1.240 IO.
IF I get bored, I guess will try 4100c15...^^

Heh, I just booted same settings but 3900Mhz, testing in progress.
Ok, no go, performance worse...


----------



## Jpmboy

Gregix said:


> Yeah, that might be vcore.
> I need to test more(gaming now) as u can see, ramtest goes flawlessly.
> TBH That ram goes 3900c14, but with 1.63V or more, so it is kinda no go for 24/7 for me.
> 3800c14 results below. Again, cr1 required too much voltage for my liking...
> Temps are no issue here, when CPU/MB temp spikes up, tornado in my case starts


yeah, ram stress tests are fine for testing the ram settings, but since during the test the IMC is experiencing a continuous (monolithic) load it really cannot reflect real world/gaming load variations. What trips up any of these rigs (multiple, aligned logic circuits with embedded checksums = "machine checks") is rapidly varying operations... exactly what gaming does. So, yeah it is really important to stress test the ram configuration, but that simply address that one domain many times revealing other areas that need to be tuned to the new ram freq and timing set. All that said... "practice like you're gonna play" kinda sums it all up.


----------



## munternet

Gregix said:


> Thx man, that gives me hope, I would be happy if sons 8700k plus Msi z370 plus will take like ~3800c15 level somehow. This CPU is dud, very bad bin, and MB isn't good either.
> 
> And, for my last results, you were right guys, more juice for CPU, Vcore from 1.265 >>1.275 did the trick, no freezes in game now. Karhu ramtest still stable. Heck, I had Karhu, plus GPU-Z Render test and Aida64 stability test running same time till 2000%+, no fuz, MB temp 29 degree constant. Gaming wise(WOT) was the same temps.
> It is nice to see smooth game with boosted FPS like from ~240 to ~270+ area from tweaking memory only. Most gains and finally no stutter I had from proper setting RTL /IOLs (if everything fails, read manual...in this case formula is in fkn RTL description...). I am still thinking I could squeeze more at this frequency from them...
> As reminder, this is Patriot Viper Steel 4500c19 running now 3800 14-14-14-32 t2 @1.52V, 1.288 SA 1.240 IO.
> IF I get bored, I guess will try 4100c15...^^
> 
> Heh, I just booted same settings but 3900Mhz, testing in progress.
> Ok, no go, performance worse...


After many recommendations from users here I settled on GSAT and TestMem5 with Extreme .config file for testing the ram after making sure the CPU is 100% with small fft's.
Only error I have had since using this method is a crash to desktop in BFV which was fixed with a smidge more vccsa


----------



## warbucks

reflex75 said:


> New G.Skill 4x8GB 4000Mhz CL15
> Tested at 3700 CL13 for better latency.


Nice. I've got the same kit.


----------



## Gregix

So, there it is. Seems stable, I'll put it for night test for like24k%+ to be sure. EDIT - just did 27k% so it is good.
As you can see, this is almost exact copy/paste of @XGS-Duplicity from his 3900c14 tests.
Will try tune RTL, as it seems have some meaningful impact on scores/performance but from my test at the moment it is still faster than any previous setting I had. I think I polish it little more(damn RTL!) and skip any 4000+Mhz tests, as they are more stressful to my IMC/MB setup and just...meh, not worth it.

And yeah, thanks to @Roidsy I just set my son's TG 3200c14 at [email protected] and it seems stable too. Went through 1000% Ramtest so far, he is gaming since(3+hrs on) so it is success so far. His aida64 latency score went from 50ish to nice 42ns area, while boosting throughout so yeah. Seems faster in games he play(minimum FPS up).


----------



## reflex75

warbucks said:


> reflex75 said:
> 
> 
> 
> New G.Skill 4x8GB 4000Mhz CL15
> Tested at 3700 CL13 for better latency.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice. I've got the same kit.
Click to expand...

Yes they are very nice indeed, providing both high frequency and fast timings! 
I wonder if they are the best binned RAM available for 32GB (4×8GB)...


----------



## munternet

Can anyone suggest a good 32GB 2x16GB good value B-Die kit from Amazon that ships to New Zealand?
Cheers


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Can anyone suggest a good 32GB 2x16GB good value B-Die kit from Amazon that ships to New Zealand?
> Cheers


3200C14 or 4000C19 would be nice, but ROG Z390 is not good at DR b-die.


----------



## Robostyle

Memtesthelper by integral seems unstable at this moment - it always crashes in 15-20 seconds after memtest start, leaving all memtest instances alone. 

Any alternatives?


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3200C14 or 4000C19 would be nice, but ROG Z390 is not good at DR b-die.


What overclock would I expect with a 32GB 2x16 3200C14 set?


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> What overclock would I expect with a 32GB 2x16 3200C14 set?


2020 sticks: you can probably expect 3733 15/15/15/36 2T. Maybe more or less depending on platform (Z490, AMD, etc).

I Just bought these sticks a few days ago.
I had the 2018 sticks previously (still have them), exact same tridentZ PCB.

The 2018 sticks can do 3200 14/14/14/34 1T with tight timings at default voltage, completely rock stable up to 50C+ but they dont scale very well at 2T. 3600 15/15/15/36 1T at 1.40v-1.45v was doable under 40C but that was the most at 1T and i didn't bother with looser timings. Going to 2T, 3733 15/15/15/36 2T at tight timings was hard to stabilize no matter what I did without serious loosening of timings. 3600 15/15/15/36 2T was rock solid up to 51C in TM5 extreme1.

The 2020 sticks suck at 1T. 3200 (stock speeds) at 14/14/14/34 at the same 1T requires 1.41v (1.35v would crash threads in prime95 112k-112k avx disabled quickly) but is fully stable up to 50C in testmem5 extreme preset and no issues in 112k).

However the 2020 sticks scale great on 2T at least. Passed 30 minutes of testmem5 extreme and prime95 112k-112k avx disabled, at 3733 15/15/15/36 2T, at just 1.40v and tight timings. FAR better than the 2018 sticks were doing at that setting. I did keep the temps below 46.8C however, so I don't know what would have happened at higher temps.


----------



## ThrashZone

munternet said:


> What overclock would I expect with a 32GB 2x16 3200C14 set?


Hi,
Not sure why 4k mhz with 1.45v and 14-15-14-36 would be an issue, but may need a little tuning on secondaries.


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> 2020 sticks: you can probably expect 3733 15/15/15/36 2T. Maybe more or less depending on platform (Z490, AMD, etc).
> 
> I Just bought these sticks a few days ago.
> I had the 2018 sticks previously (still have them), exact same tridentZ PCB.
> 
> The 2018 sticks can do 3200 14/14/14/34 1T with tight timings at default voltage, completely rock stable up to 50C+ but they dont scale very well at 2T. 3600 15/15/15/36 1T at 1.40v-1.45v was doable under 40C but that was the most at 1T and i didn't bother with looser timings. Going to 2T, 3733 15/15/15/36 2T at tight timings was hard to stabilize no matter what I did without serious loosening of timings. 3600 15/15/15/36 2T was rock solid up to 51C in TM5 extreme1.
> 
> The 2020 sticks suck at 1T. 3200 (stock speeds) at 14/14/14/34 at the same 1T requires 1.41v (1.35v would crash threads in prime95 112k-112k avx disabled quickly) but is fully stable up to 50C in testmem5 extreme preset and no issues in 112k).
> 
> However the 2020 sticks scale great on 2T at least. Passed 30 minutes of testmem5 extreme and prime95 112k-112k avx disabled, at 3733 15/15/15/36 2T, at just 1.40v and tight timings. FAR better than the 2018 sticks were doing at that setting. I did keep the temps below 46.8C however, so I don't know what would have happened at higher temps.


Ram is water cooled on Asus Gene XI.
Haven't been close to 40°c yet even at 1.64v 4400C17 which is my current daily.
The OCD won't let me run lower than 4000 you see


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> What overclock would I expect with a 32GB 2x16 3200C14 set?


3200C14 on Z490 can do 4400C16, the best I've seen can do 4500C17 but with insane voltages.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3200C14 on Z490 can do 4400C16, the best I've seen can do 4500C17 but with insane voltages.


If you say the voltages are insane they must REALLY be insane 
I'm still on the Z390 with no prospect of upgrading for some time 
I'm more wondering what kit I could buy and what speed I might get on my current setup.
If I could likely get 4000MHz I might go for it


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> If you say the voltages are insane they must REALLY be insane
> I'm still on the Z390 with no prospect of upgrading for some time
> I'm more wondering what kit I could buy and what speed I might get on my current setup.
> If I could likely get 4000MHz I might go for it


Yeah you know me 

Micron Max 4000 2*16GB should be the best choice for frequency. It can run 4600 18-23-41 on my m11g.

DR B-die 4200 should also be doable. Anyway, its silicon lottery.

If just for fun, you can try oloy 3600 warhawk 2*16GB (16-20-20-40 1.35v). Newegg lists it for 180USD.


----------



## ogider

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3200C14 on Z490 can do 4400C16, the best I've seen can do 4500C17 but with insane voltages.


1.51 isnt that super high..just 0.01v more than some stock g.skill kits 

I might have ****ty cpu in terms of MHz but not bad for IMC it seems . My 2x16 c14 is 2018 year.


----------



## Robostyle

How can smaller - i.e. looser tREFI cause instability? 

I set tREFI 65535 => totally stable HCI 1000%.
I set tREFI 11400 => I can't even start HCI because of BSoD.

Totally same settings, voltages, timings as on screenshot, except for tREFI - trying to lower it results in total instability :/


----------



## Larkonian

Robostyle said:


> How can smaller - i.e. looser tREFI cause instability?
> 
> I set tREFI 65535 => totally stable HCI 1000%.
> I set tREFI 11400 => I can't even start HCI because of BSoD.
> 
> Totally same settings, voltages, timings as on screenshot, except for tREFI - trying to lower it results in total instability :/


Have you tried other values?


----------



## Robostyle

Yup.
The lower I set, the earlier it gets unstable lol


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> 1.51 isnt that super high..just 0.01v more than some stock g.skill kits
> 
> I might have ****ty cpu in terms of MHz but not bad for IMC it seems . My 2x16 c14 is 2018 year.


Your IMC is much better than that guy. That guy used 1.65V VCCSA and 1.6V VDIMM to run 4500C17.

I'm curious: can you further shrink your tRDRD/tWRWR sg and dg to 6-4 and all dr values to 5?


----------



## Larkonian

A tREFI of 65535 might default to some auto setting. I've suspected as much from seeing lots of people able to run that value even with high voltages.

Try setting tREFI to auto and see what you get.


----------



## Gregix

Robostyle said:


> How can smaller - i.e. looser tREFI cause instability?
> 
> I set tREFI 65535 => totally stable HCI 1000%.
> I set tREFI 11400 => I can't even start HCI because of BSoD.
> 
> Totally same settings, voltages, timings as on screenshot, except for tREFI - trying to lower it results in total instability :/


Try 32678.
To tight tREFI makes things unstable. To high with bad OC/timings may lead to file corruption and broken OS.

Besides, JEDEC formula as I know is 7.8xmemory speed/2 for tREFI, so in your case, it should be 7.8*1600=12480 and this is minimal value u can/could set.
And is somehow related to tRFC so...


----------



## ogider

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Your IMC is much better than that guy. That guy used 1.65V VCCSA and 1.6V VDIMM to run 4500C17.
> 
> I'm curious: can you further shrink your tRDRD/tWRWR sg and dg to 6-4 and all dr values to 5?


trdrd sg is at 8 ..on my setup 4300 c16 flat was 7. But increase from 7 to 8 was crucial timming to reach 4533



twrwr sg dg..very similar story. a bit more stable when -1 but still not enought.

I m able to enter windows with 4600MHz cl 17-17-17 as well..but for more testing i need better bios..if the new bios will bring improvement and not other way. 

from 4300 c16 flat to 4533 c17 flat i had to change:

trfc from 280 to 370 (maybe i could lower a bit 340 perhaps)
rt init 61 63 to 66 68 (maybe i could lower a bit 64 66 perhaps)
trdrd sg from 7 to 8 

ddr4 voltge was 1.53V now 1.51V
sa 1.32 ->1.4 (maybe i could lower a bit)
io 1.3 -> 1.38V (maybe i could lower a bit)


----------



## Robostyle

Gregix said:


> Try 32678.
> To tight tREFI makes things unstable. To high with bad OC/timings may lead to file corruption and broken OS.
> 
> Besides, JEDEC formula as I know is 7.8xmemory speed/2 for tREFI, so in your case, it should be 7.8*1600=12480 and this is minimal value u can/could set.
> And is somehow related to tRFC so...


There is some stability gains actually, when I follow jedec values - memtest error popup rate drops ~trice, and it doesn't bsod at least. Still, it gets errors.
32000 does work stable as well, though I need some testing to be done, before actually saying its stable
tREFI lower than 16-20000 won't go stable. 



Larkonian said:


> A tREFI of 65535 might default to some auto setting. I've suspected as much from seeing lots of people able to run that value even with high voltages.
> 
> Try setting tREFI to auto and see what you get.


Auto = 8316, so it's either false value by ATC, or motherboard simply can't do autotune, only EC defaults.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> trdrd sg is at 8 ..on my setup 4300 c16 flat was 7. But increase from 7 to 8 was crucial timming to reach 4533
> 
> 
> 
> twrwr sg dg..very similar story. a bit more stable when -1 but still not enought.
> 
> I m able to enter windows with 4600MHz cl 17-17-17 as well..but for more testing i need better bios..if the new bios will bring improvement and not other way.
> 
> from 4300 c16 flat to 4533 c17 flat i had to change:
> 
> trfc from 280 to 370 (maybe i could lower a bit 340 perhaps)
> rt init 61 63 to 66 68 (maybe i could lower a bit 64 66 perhaps)
> trdrd sg from 7 to 8
> 
> ddr4 voltge was 1.53V now 1.51V
> sa 1.32 ->1.4 (maybe i could lower a bit)
> io 1.3 -> 1.38V (maybe i could lower a bit)


It is already good enough.

What was the highest ram temp you've tried during the test?


----------



## munternet

Speaking of high voltages, I need 1.7 VDRAM (water cooled) to stabilize this 4200-14-16-16-36-2T with the 2x8GB 4400C19 Viper Steels
IO and SA are 1.25v and 1.35v though
No bad boots, seems rock solid


----------



## metalspider

you should be able to lower twtr_L and S to at least 10 4 im doing that at 4266mhz 1.43v on my 4400C19 Viper Steels.


----------



## munternet

metalspider said:


> you should be able to lower twtr_L and S to at least 10 4 im doing that at 4266mhz 1.43v on my 4400C19 Viper Steels.


Thanks but I'm not keeping it. I just wanted to see if I could get 4200cl14 to work reliably with this hardware and what voltages are required 
Nice work with the 4 sticks on the XI Hero BTW :thumb:

Edit: Got a 4000cl13 GSAT stable but not quite TM5 1USMUS stable. Might save it and have a play in the future.
Was kinda seeing how far DRAM voltage would scale. Got to 1.735v


----------



## metalspider

well im still waiting for a ram fan so cant go 1.5v tried some trefi stuff today and saw nice gains but as soon as i heat test with the gpu under load i had errors.
my previous gskill ram had temp sensors which i miss but the viper steels are better.


----------



## ogider

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It is already good enough.
> 
> What was the highest ram temp you've tried during the test?


43c but I have 80mm fan from NoiseBlocker mounted above dimms. 1200rpm. Was 26c outside case during tests.


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> Speaking of high voltages, I need 1.7 VDRAM (water cooled) to stabilize this 4200-14-16-16-36-2T with the 2x8GB 4400C19 Viper Steels
> IO and SA are 1.25v and 1.35v though
> No bad boots, seems rock solid


Too bad the memory lacks memory bandwidth 

4700c17 proper tweaked on z490 is about 72-74GB/s

Nice result anyway


----------



## munternet

Nizzen said:


> Too bad the memory lacks memory bandwidth
> 
> 4700c17 proper tweaked on z490 is about 72-74GB/s
> 
> Nice result anyway


Yeah, I know what you're saying
I was just putting it through it's paces to see if it would run a 4200cl14 stable. Not really going for performance
My daily is tweaked better for performance but still nothing like what you're talking about 
I think my wife would hit the roof if I spent much more on PCs


----------



## mouacyk

KIT: 3600C15 2x8GB
Finally got around to testing beyond my stable 4000 profile. 4133 seems to be about as far as my 9900K will go. 4266 17-18-18 
occassionally boots, but higher will not even with up to 1.6v on ram and 1.4v on io/sa.



Spoiler



@Gentoo ~ $ sudo stressapptest -W -M 12880 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Log: Commandline - stressapptest -W -M 12880 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Stats: SAT revision 1.0.9_autoconf, 64 bit binary
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Log: portage @ server on Wed Dec 18 13:36:47 CST 2019 from open source release
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Log: 1 nodes, 16 cpus.
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Log: Defaulting to 16 copy threads
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Log: Prefer plain malloc memory allocation.
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Log: Using mmap() allocation at 0x7f8897000000.
2020/07/12-03:28:32(CDT) Stats: Starting SAT, 12880M, 3600 seconds
2020/07/12-03:28:33(CDT) Log: region number 18 exceeds region count 1
2020/07/12-03:28:33(CDT) Log: Region mask: 0x1
2020/07/12-03:28:43(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3590
2020/07/12-03:28:53(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3580
2020/07/12-03:29:03(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3570
2020/07/12-03:29:13(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3560
2020/07/12-03:29:23(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3550
2020/07/12-03:29:33(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3540
2020/07/12-03:29:43(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3530
2020/07/12-03:29:53(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3520
2020/07/12-03:30:03(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3510
2020/07/12-03:30:13(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 3500
...
2020/07/12-04:27:33(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 60
2020/07/12-04:27:43(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 50
2020/07/12-04:27:53(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 40
2020/07/12-04:28:03(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 30
2020/07/12-04:28:13(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 20
2020/07/12-04:28:23(CDT) Log: Seconds remaining: 10
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: Completed: 149874320.00M in 3600.21s 41629.28MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: Memory Copy: 149874320.00M at 41631.17MB/s
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) 
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT) Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors
2020/07/12-04:28:33(CDT)


----------



## ThrashZone

Nizzen said:


> Too bad the memory lacks memory bandwidth
> 
> 4700c17 proper tweaked on z490 is about 72-74GB/s
> 
> Nice result anyway


Hi,
Has memory oc'ing past a tuned 4k mhz made any real difference in benchmark scores ?
I've seen no benefits of going over 4k mhz just easier to corrupt the os


----------



## metalspider

mouacyk said:


> KIT: 3600C15 2x8GB
> Finally got around to testing beyond my stable 4000 profile. 4133 seems to be about as far as my 9900K will go. 4266 17-18-18
> occassionally boots, but higher will not even with up to 1.6v on ram and 1.4v on io/sa.



could be a dimm pcb issue.if you have A0 it pretty much tops out at 4133mhz.
but 3600c15 is the best low latency b-die afaik.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ogider said:


> 43c but I have 80mm fan from NoiseBlocker mounted above dimms. 1200rpm. Was 26c outside case during tests.


Good enough 

I am using Dimm.2 so most Dimm fan mounts don't work well. Tried to put an NF-A12 @2000 rpm near the sticks but this interrupted the front radiator airflow.


----------



## Nizzen

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Has memory oc'ing past a tuned 4k mhz made any real difference in benchmark scores ?
> I've seen no benefits of going over 4k mhz just easier to corrupt the os


Higher min fps in Battlefield V multiplayer. Only game I play. Rest of the games is only for benchmarking LOL


----------



## munternet

mouacyk said:


> KIT: 3600C15 2x8GB
> Finally got around to testing beyond my stable 4000 profile. 4133 seems to be about as far as my 9900K will go. 4266 17-18-18
> occasionally boots, but higher will not even with up to 1.6v on ram and 1.4v on io/sa.


Seems like a reasonable overclock :thumb:

IF you want any suggestions to try....
The limitation might be the motherboard being a Z370 rated at 4133+?
Can you lower RTLs on that BIOS? 60/61/7/7/21/21 or 60/60/7/6/21/21 or 59/60/6/6/21/21. tCWL can be raised a little if it means being able to lower RTLs
tWR tested best overall performance at 16 even though it could go as low as 6 on my setup as was recommended by Gen.
Keeping the primaries in line seems to be best for B-Die. 17-17-17-37 seems to tune better for performance than 16-17-17-36 with my kit.
Lowering tRFC below 360 also does nothing for me in terms of Aida performance.
If I'm telling you how to suck eggs just ignore me


----------



## munternet

Can anybody tell me if the heat spreaders on these F4-3600C16D-32GTZR G.Skill RGB sticks is removable and whether the EK Monarch plates will fit?
Cheers
Edit: There is a $65 price difference with these sticks F4-3200C14D-32GTZR. Is it worth paying for the 3600cl16s ?


----------



## ThrashZone

munternet said:


> Can anybody tell me if the heat spreaders on these F4-3600C16D-32GTZR G.Skill RGB sticks is removable and whether the EK Monarch plates will fit?
> Cheers
> Edit: There is a $65 price difference with these sticks F4-3200C14D-32GTZR. Is it worth paying for the 3600cl16s ?


Hi,
Less voltage needed for 3600 obviously and good for 4200..
3200 well depends on how much juice you want to pump into them but same goes for 3600c16


----------



## munternet

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Less voltage needed for 3600 obviously and good for 4200..
> 3200 well depends on how much juice you want to pump into them but same goes for 3600c16


Thanks for that, good points :thumb:
Just looking on youtube and the EK Monarch plates do indeed fit the RGB version


----------



## metalspider

decided to put a 120mm fan for now and try stuff at 1.5v.
for some reason i seem to get slightly better scores in aida with tras at 40 then at 38.a few more MB bandwidth and 0.1-0.2ns faster too.


----------



## JMTH

munternet said:


> Can anybody tell me if the heat spreaders on these F4-3600C16D-32GTZR G.Skill RGB sticks is removable and whether the EK Monarch plates will fit?
> Cheers
> Edit: There is a $65 price difference with these sticks F4-3200C14D-32GTZR. Is it worth paying for the 3600cl16s ?


Most all heat spreaders are removable, it's just a pain to do so hehe. Typically they use a really sticky tim. Just use a heat gun to heat the plates and soften up the adhesive until you can pull them from the dram. You should be able to use your hands but you might want to use some rags so you don't burn your fingers.


----------



## munternet

JMTH said:


> Most all heat spreaders are removable, it's just a pain to do so hehe. Typically they use a really sticky tim. Just use a heat gun to heat the plates and soften up the adhesive until you can pull them from the dram. You should be able to use your hands but you might want to use some rags so you don't burn your fingers.


Yeah, cheers :thumb:
I was wondering about the size as I tried to water cool some Corsair Dominator Platinums once but the PCBs wouldn't fit but I watched a youtube and it should be good


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Hey guys 
I can't seem to retrain cl14- 3800/3866/3900 at all. What are the chances I degraded my IMC training memory over the last couple weeks during the heatwave? Already cleaned the dimms, they are in optimal slots as well, also re-touched up the liquid metal between ihs/copper cold plate. Ambient is 80f right now. Is ambient screwing me over here or could I have degraded my IMC? Also, I had used double sided gorilla tape to mount a 40mm noctua fan on my z390 aorus master chipset to blow air upwards between the dimms, is it possible the vibrations from the fan on the chipset heatsink messed something up or are interfering signal wise?


----------



## reflex75

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Hey guys
> I can't seem to retrain cl14- 3800/3866/3900 at all. What are the chances I degraded my IMC training memory over the last couple weeks during the heatwave? Already cleaned the dimms, they are in optimal slots as well, also re-touched up the liquid metal between ihs/copper cold plate. Ambient is 80f right now. Is ambient screwing me over here or could I have degraded my IMC? Also, I had used double sided gorilla tape to mount a 40mm noctua fan on my z390 aorus master chipset to blow air upwards between the dimms, is it possible the vibrations from the fan on the chipset heatsink messed something up or are interfering signal wise?


IMC can be damaged after using too high voltages.
What max voltages have you used for vcore, vccio and sa?
Temperature is less harmful than high voltage, or high amperage which is the worst. 
Vibrations are not a problem, many hardwares have fans attached to them vibrating during years (gpu, cpu cooler, case...)
I believe your higher ambient temp is the culprit if your OC is borderline and you have not left any safety room to support higher temperature...


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

reflex75 said:


> IMC can be damaged after using too high voltages.
> What max voltages have you used for vcore, vccio and sa?
> Temperature is less harmful than high voltage, or high amperage which is the worst.
> Vibrations are not a problem, many hardwares have fans attached to them vibrating during years (gpu, cpu cooler, case...)
> I believe your higher ambient temp is the culprit if your OC is borderline and you have not left any safety room to support higher temperature...



Nothing too crazy in terms of voltages. never tried above 1.95v on vdimm for benching(during cooler days), daily is usually 1.5v-1.56v vdimm, sometimes less, and 1.3v-1.35v sa/io. When training certain frequencies/rtls sometimes I use 1.38v sa/io but then bring it down after training. For benching up to 1.4v sa/io, but it is not frequent. Vcore, daily, as much as 1.42v load voltage on lvl 5 llc without hyperthreading, but during gaming, so not even crazy loads. If i stress the memory, it's usually with lower clocks and lower than 1.42v. I rarely stress the cpu after the initial figuring out of how the chip scales. I mainly just OC memory, train memory and do memory tests/benchmarks. 
Yesterday I was resetting cmos and walked away for 5 minutes, motherboard got stuck on either 4f or 7f code for like 5 minutes until I came back to the pc and had to manually shut it off. Could that have caused any problems?


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Nothing too crazy in terms of voltages. never tried above 1.95v on vdimm for benching(during cooler days), daily is usually 1.5v-1.56v vdimm, sometimes less, and 1.3v-1.35v sa/io. When training certain frequencies/rtls sometimes I use 1.38v sa/io but then bring it down after training. For benching up to 1.4v sa/io, but it is not frequent. Vcore, daily, as much as 1.42v load voltage on lvl 5 llc without hyperthreading, but during gaming, so not even crazy loads. If i stress the memory, it's usually with lower clocks and lower than 1.42v. I rarely stress the cpu after the initial figuring out of how the chip scales. I mainly just OC memory, train memory and do memory tests/benchmarks.
> Yesterday I was resetting cmos and walked away for 5 minutes, motherboard got stuck on either 4f or 7f code for like 5 minutes until I came back to the pc and had to manually shut it off. Could that have caused any problems?


Reset CMOS by unplugging the power supply (or flipping the PSU rocker switch off), wait 20 seconds for all board lights to all turn off, then press clear CMOS for 10 seconds. Then replug and try everything again. Try that.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Falkentyne said:


> Reset CMOS by unplugging the power supply (or flipping the PSU rocker switch off), wait 20 seconds for all board lights to all turn off, then press clear CMOS for 10 seconds. Then replug and try everything again. Try that.


Did all of that already when I re-did the liquid metal today, unplugged everything, reset cmos, etc.


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Did all of that already when I re-did the liquid metal today, unplugged everything, reset cmos, etc.


Yes but was it waiting 20 seconds, then pressing clear cmos for 10 seconds? Or just a quick press and release?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Falkentyne said:


> Yes but was it waiting 20 seconds, then pressing clear cmos for 10 seconds? Or just a quick press and release?


oh just typical press and release. Also did the flip the psu power switch off/on a few times in a row.


----------



## ThrashZone

XGS-Duplicity said:


> oh just typical press and release. Also did the flip the psu power switch off/on a few times in a row.


Hi,
Best way is to simply remove cmos battery and hold down the power button for 30 seconds.
Then do as you normally do.


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> oh just typical press and release. Also did the flip the psu power switch off/on a few times in a row.


Try my method instead and see if it makes a difference. (Both the wait 20 seconds after flipping the PSU switch, followed by holding clear cmos down for 10 seconds).


----------



## nick name

Can I ask a favor of you fine Intel folks please? I've been comparing my old 3600C15 (July 2018) 2X8GB kit to my new 3600C15 (June 2020) 2X8GB kit and the new kit reaches higher speeds and at tighter timings. However, I'm not sure if the voltage I use is required by the RAM or by the CPU (VTTDDR). 

Does anyone run 4600MHz CL18 at less than 1.7V? Full timings pictured. 

Also, the 3600C15 kit is still priced at USD $125 at Newegg.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Falkentyne said:


> Try my method instead and see if it makes a difference. (Both the wait 20 seconds after flipping the PSU switch, followed by holding clear cmos down for 10 seconds).


ok did that. no improvement, though it is hotter now than it was earlier.


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> ok did that. no improvement, though it is hotter now than it was earlier.


A voltage setting probably got fully reset.
I noticed I had to do this when using a "too low" VCCSA when changing RAM timings with 1T. Sometimes the board would "55". Then I noticed when I did a 'fast' cmos clear (flip PSU off, press clear cmos button once), the cmos was reset visibly, but then when I loaded my saved profile, I would get "55" again. When I did the wait 20 seconds then the 10 second CMOS clear press, the profile loaded every time.

Shamino felt it was from using a too low VCCIO/SA with 1T command rate.
Granted that isn't a Gigabyte board but I wanted to see if it would help you.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Falkentyne said:


> A voltage setting probably got fully reset.
> I noticed I had to do this when using a "too low" VCCSA when changing RAM timings with 1T. Sometimes the board would "55". Then I noticed when I did a 'fast' cmos clear (flip PSU off, press clear cmos button once), the cmos was reset visibly, but then when I loaded my saved profile, I would get "55" again. When I did the wait 20 seconds then the 10 second CMOS clear press, the profile loaded every time.
> 
> Shamino felt it was from using a too low VCCIO/SA with 1T command rate.
> Granted that isn't a Gigabyte board but I wanted to see if it would help you.


gotcha alrite. Well, good news is should have air conditioning back up and running within a couple days. guess i'll know for sure if my imc is messed up by then.


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> gotcha alrite. Well, good news is should have air conditioning back up and running within a couple days. guess i'll know for sure if my imc is messed up by then.


Hope you can find the link to the hex edit for qflashing. It's just one byte, if I recall, removes the CRC check or something. I should have bookmarked it. I guess I hate hex editing.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Falkentyne said:


> Hope you can find the link to the hex edit for qflashing. It's just one byte, if I recall, removes the CRC check or something. I should have bookmarked it. I guess I hate hex editing.


Ok so i got c14 3900 back up and running. Your instructions worked, thank you I reflashed F9 after trying c14-3900 on f11e(failed to train), trained c17-4200 on f9, then reset cmos again and trained c14-3900. 
What should I chalk this up to? Just sometimes it gets finnicky after training many different profiles or something? I guess i must of tried like 30-50 times to train c14-3900, c15-4000 and c16-4200 in the last 24-36 hours, either fail to train on c14 3900 or wrong/slower rtls on 4000+ for the most part. c14 3900 is tough to reach on 4 dimms on this board, it trains about once out of every 4 or 5 attempts at training. I guess for good measure every once in a while I should just do a full powerdown and hold cmos in for 10 seconds instead of a quick press i guess?

I haven't used a hex editor or anything before, not familiar with that stuff. I'll have to get a cheap second usb stick for modded bioses.


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Ok so i got c14 3900 back up and running. Your instructions worked, thank you I reflashed F9 after trying c14-3900 on f11e(failed to train), trained c17-4200 on f9, then reset cmos again and trained c14-3900.
> What should I chalk this up to? Just sometimes it gets finnicky after training many different profiles or something? I guess i must of tried like 30-50 times to train c14-3900, c15-4000 and c16-4200 in the last 24-36 hours, either fail to train on c14 3900 or wrong/slower rtls on 4000+ for the most part. c14 3900 is tough to reach on 4 dimms on this board, it trains about once out of every 4 or 5 attempts at training. I guess for good measure every once in a while I should just do a full powerdown and hold cmos in for 10 seconds instead of a quick press i guess?
> 
> I haven't used a hex editor or anything before, not familiar with that stuff. I'll have to get a cheap second usb stick for modded bioses.


I'm not very familiar with memory holes, but from little I do know it sounds like what you were moving around.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> I'm not very familiar with memory holes, but from little I do know it sounds like what you were moving around.


hmmmmmm this term is new to me. I don't quite follow. I googled ram memory holes and pci hole/memory remapping comes up. Is this what you are referring to? I don't understand any of it, my bios doesn't have memory remap feature or anything like that. To add, all my ram is usable to my knowledge, windows shows 32gb.


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Ok so i got c14 3900 back up and running. Your instructions worked, thank you I reflashed F9 after trying c14-3900 on f11e(failed to train), trained c17-4200 on f9, then reset cmos again and trained c14-3900.
> What should I chalk this up to? Just sometimes it gets finnicky after training many different profiles or something? I guess i must of tried like 30-50 times to train c14-3900, c15-4000 and c16-4200 in the last 24-36 hours, either fail to train on c14 3900 or wrong/slower rtls on 4000+ for the most part. c14 3900 is tough to reach on 4 dimms on this board, it trains about once out of every 4 or 5 attempts at training. I guess for good measure every once in a while I should just do a full powerdown and hold cmos in for 10 seconds instead of a quick press i guess?
> 
> I haven't used a hex editor or anything before, not familiar with that stuff. I'll have to get a cheap second usb stick for modded bioses.


Yeah. Changing RAM timings back and forth too much and voltages around sometimes requires a 'deep' cmos clear to reset everything.
A fast cmos clear resets the UEFI only. But some things are still left unchanged in NVRAM and god knows what other low level stuff.

I'm just glad *someone* trusts my hard work around here still.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Falkentyne said:


> Yeah. Changing RAM timings back and forth too much and voltages around sometimes requires a 'deep' cmos clear to reset everything.
> A fast cmos clear resets the UEFI only. But some things are still left unchanged in NVRAM and god knows what other low level stuff.
> 
> I'm just glad *someone* trusts my hard work around here still.


Ahhhhhhhh ok that makes sense. Here i thought my imc degraded LOL. thankfully you exist. Gave you a +1 for the helpful tip. Yeah I still follow most instructions you give me. I just really don't want to lower my cache lol.


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> hmmmmmm this term is new to me. I don't quite follow. I googled ram memory holes and pci hole/memory remapping comes up. Is this what you are referring to? I don't understand any of it, my bios doesn't have memory remap feature or anything like that. To add, all my ram is usable to my knowledge, windows shows 32gb.


Honestly, I never found anything that explained it to my satisfaction. In my encounters -- folks were talking about the usefulness of certain voltages on the Ryzen platform in regards to "moving around memory holes". 

Other instances that seem to correlate are when folks need to use one strap to get to another strap when simply trying that second strap first won't work. 

But I properly have an improper understanding of it and everything I am saying is utter cr*p. So I'd wait for a second opinion.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> Honestly, I never found anything that explained it to my satisfaction. In my encounters -- folks were talking about the usefulness of certain voltages on the Ryzen platform in regards to "moving around memory holes".
> 
> Other instances that seem to correlate are when folks need to use one strap to get to another strap when simply trying that second strap first won't work.
> 
> But I properly have an improper understanding of it and everything I am saying is utter cr*p. So I'd wait for a second opinion.


ohhhh. Well, now that you mention that. That's what I was doing lately this week. 4200 memory strap does not train at all with this kit on this board(even if i tried training it after training 4133), in order for me to get there, I have to train 4133 memory strap + 101.5 busclock and then go back into bios to remove the busclock, select 4200 memory strap and then enable memory fast boot. If i just leave the busclock, its only memtest stable until I shut the pc off. I think I tried jumping from 4200(post training/fastboot) to 4300 strap with just voltage increases last night or this morning using memory fastboot. I can't figure out for the life of me how to train 4266/4300/4333/4400 with this kit so i'm just trying all sorts of stuff. What voltages did they increase to get around memory holes? I've already tried increasing dmi voltage all the way up to 1.35v and i've also tried increasing vccpl OC voltage up to 1.35v(xmp usually sets at 1.31v according to gigabyte eztune software). Also tried all the way up to 1.4v sa/io. Tried tons of vdimm too, didn't seem to make a difference.


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> ohhhh. Well, now that you mention that. That's what I was doing lately this week. 4200 memory strap does not train at all with this kit on this board(even if i tried training it after training 4133), in order for me to get there, I have to train 4133 memory strap + 101.5 busclock and then go back into bios to remove the busclock, select 4200 memory strap and then enable memory fast boot. If i just leave the busclock, its only memtest stable until I shut the pc off. I think I tried jumping from 4200(post training/fastboot) to 4300 strap with just voltage increases last night or this morning using memory fastboot. I can't figure out for the life of me how to train 4266/4300/4333/4400 with this kit so i'm just trying all sorts of stuff.


Yeah, I've found that I can't get to 4600 reliably without booting 4400 first. Then 4600 works like a charm. 

Playing with high speed is actually what brought me here to you Intel guys. Nobody really plays that high on their AMD systems so I don't have anyone to ask about DRAM voltages at those speeds.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> Yeah, I've found that I can't get to 4600 reliably without booting 4400 first. Then 4600 works like a charm.
> 
> Playing with high speed is actually what brought me here to you Intel guys. Nobody really plays that high on their AMD systems so I don't have anyone to ask about DRAM voltages at those speeds.


Ahhh interesting. For 4600, I think I had to boot 4533 first or maybe start with 4400 then goto 4500 then 4533 or something, then fastboot from there with 4600 strap to sneak in a benchmark. Did it a couple times, not in awhile though. In terms of voltages, all i can say is that its really going to depend on the dimms. I probably don't have much to offer in terms of advice, i don't know much about amd's architecture, i just know they got chicklets.


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Ahhh interesting. For 4600, I think I had to boot 4533 first or maybe start with 4400 then goto 4500 then 4533 or something, then fastboot from there with 4600 strap to sneak in a benchmark. Did it a couple times, not in awhile though. In terms of voltages, all i can say is that its really going to depend on the dimms. I probably don't have much to offer in terms of advice, i don't know much about amd's architecture, i just know they got chicklets.


That's one of things that I wonder about too. Whether my kit would need the same voltage on an Intel platform so I was hoping to find some folks here that have played around at 4400 and 4600.


----------



## Gen.

Welcome friends! 4600 17-17-1T 1.52V with 8700K 5200/5000.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Gen. said:


> Welcome friends! 4600 17-17-1T 1.52V with 8700K 5200/5000.


Fantastic result


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> Welcome friends! 4600 17-17-1T 1.52V with 8700K 5200/5000.


Nice one :thumb:


----------



## munternet

Ordered some F4-3600C16D-32GTZR off Amazon since that's pretty much the only place I can source it from New Zealand. Not cheap.
It's the waiting that gets me. Two days and it hasn't been processed yet 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084NS4L3J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I figure I will sell 2 or 3 other kits to fund it
/me checks again. No, still hasn't moved....
Looking forward to overclocking it. Anyone have this kit on a Z390? or even a Z490?
Cheers


----------



## mouacyk

munternet said:


> Ordered some F4-3600C16D-32GTZR off Amazon since that's pretty much the only place I can source it from New Zealand. Not cheap.
> It's the waiting that gets me. Two days and it hasn't been processed yet
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084NS4L3J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> I figure I will sell 2 or 3 other kits to fund it
> /me checks again. No, still hasn't moved....
> Looking forward to overclocking it. Anyone have this kit on a Z390? or even a Z490?
> Cheers


Can't wait to see your tuning results. I'm also eyeing an upgrade from 16GB to 32GB and want to maintain a nice overclock.


----------



## Roidsy

Latency's a little higher than I'd like but I'm content with this I guess. It was too much of a headache trying to track down why 4400 was unstable lol. 



munternet said:


> Ordered some F4-3600C16D-32GTZR off Amazon since that's pretty much the only place I can source it from New Zealand. Not cheap.
> It's the waiting that gets me. Two days and it hasn't been processed yet
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084NS4L3J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> I figure I will sell 2 or 3 other kits to fund it
> /me checks again. No, still hasn't moved....
> Looking forward to overclocking it. Anyone have this kit on a Z390? or even a Z490?
> Cheers


I have the same kit coming actually, got rid of my vipers to help cover it. Hopefully they'll be here on the 16th but I probably won't have time to play with them until the weekend. A lot of the reviews seemed to be from people running xmp (or very close to xmp) for their Zen 2 systems, not exactly super useful information... I don't really know what to expect from them considering it's dual rank but if they do even a little better than my old 4x8 config I can be happy with them. Also curious if anyone has any past experience with the 4000 19-19-19-39 version, it was a toss up between those two for me.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Not many people have the 3600c16 2x16gb kit only 4x8gb kit so you'll have to tell us how good they are


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> Ordered some F4-3600C16D-32GTZR off Amazon since that's pretty much the only place I can source it from New Zealand. Not cheap.
> It's the waiting that gets me. Two days and it hasn't been processed yet
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084NS4L3J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> I figure I will sell 2 or 3 other kits to fund it
> /me checks again. No, still hasn't moved....
> Looking forward to overclocking it. Anyone have this kit on a Z390? or even a Z490?
> Cheers


I was under the impression that the 3600 C16 B-dies are a worse bin than the 3200 C14's.
I got these a few weeks ago

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VRMFDQ/

And these 2020 sticks do 3733 15/15/15/36 2T @ 1.40v and very tight timings without much work, and 1.40v was just a best initial guess as to what I thought I needed. They may be stable even lower down to 1.35v or maybe not--I haven't bothered to tune since I'm not good at memory. I did not test lower voltages though.

The 2018 sticks of tridentZ CL14 3200 2x16 GB are not fully stable at 3733 at those timings.



> TylloToday at 11:50 AM
> Every 3200c14 kit should manage 3600c16, but not every 3600c16 kit will do 3200c14 (at 1.35v)
> 3200c14 is the best on paper





> TylloToday at 11:50 AM
> @Falkentyne it's the best 2x16 bin available on market simple as that, silicon lottery will always play a factor


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> I was under the impression that the 3600 C16 B-dies are a worse bin than the 3200 C14's.
> I got these a few weeks ago
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VRMFDQ/
> 
> And these 2020 sticks do 3733 15/15/15/36 2T @ 1.40v and very tight timings without much work, and 1.40v was just a best initial guess as to what I thought I needed. They may be stable even lower down to 1.35v or maybe not--I haven't bothered to tune since I'm not good at memory. I did not test lower voltages though.
> 
> The 2018 sticks of tridentZ CL14 3200 2x16 GB are not fully stable at 3733 at those timings.


Interesting
I was under the impression 3600MHz at the same voltage as 3200MHz stock meant higher clocks at lower voltage is possible. Heat is not an issue due to the water cooling
They have shipped finally so I will know soon enough


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Interesting
> I was under the impression 3600MHz at the same voltage as 3200MHz stock meant higher clocks at lower voltage is possible. Heat is not an issue due to the water cooling
> They have shipped finally so I will know soon enough


Almost the same. 3200C14 is a slightly better bin, use 3200/14~228, 3600/16~225


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> Interesting
> I was under the impression 3600MHz at the same voltage as 3200MHz stock meant higher clocks at lower voltage is possible. Heat is not an issue due to the water cooling
> They have shipped finally so I will know soon enough


Cool let us know how they do just like you let us know how your CPU's were doing.
I guess it's sort of similar as to why 4000 CL19-19-39 Gskill b-dies are a crap bin. Binned at ridiculously loose timings which is why they are working at that speed. And I'd hate to see the subs...
(You remember the tRFC of the steel viper 4400 CL19's? 730 or something awful...)

https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-TridentZ-4000Mhz-PC4-32000-19-19-19-39/dp/B07K28FGJ5/


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Cool let us know how they do just like you let us know how your CPU's were doing.
> I guess it's sort of similar as to why 4000 CL19-19-39 Gskill b-dies are a crap bin. Binned at ridiculously loose timings which is why they are working at that speed. And I'd hate to see the subs...
> (You remember the tRFC of the steel viper 4400 CL19's? 730 or something awful...)
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-TridentZ-4000Mhz-PC4-32000-19-19-19-39/dp/B07K28FGJ5/


Should get those kits before they start to use new ASUS bios to bin DR bdies


----------



## mouacyk

Decided to get 2x16GB (looks like a split from 8x16GB kit) 3200C14 B-Die from ebay for a good price, after looking at 3866C18, 3600C16, and 3200C14/15 32GB kits. Due to the dual-rank and high density, various reviews state they're topping out around 4GHz anyway. My board is dual-slot only, so hoping I can hit ~3866, if not 4000.


----------



## munternet

mouacyk said:


> Decided to get 2x16GB (looks like a split from 8x16GB kit) 3200C14 B-Die from ebay for a good price, after looking at 3866C18, 3600C16, and 3200C14/15 32GB kits. Due to the dual-rank and high density, various reviews state they're topping out around 4GHz anyway. My board is dual-slot only, so hoping I can hit ~3866, if not 4000.


I'm wondering if I should have gone for the 3200C14 instead for the large $$ saving.
With the SR sticks the feedback at the time was the 3600C16 overclocked better than the 3200C14 but not by much.
Looking at the Gene XI QVL I'm quietly confident of reaching ~4000+
The 3600C16 is not on there but there are some DS sticks up to 4000MHz


----------



## ogider

I'm afraid nobody will say for sure. Especially with OC higher than average
With memory OC is not only 1 factor but 3.
-memory
-CPU IMC
-Mainboard/mainboard Bios


----------



## AeonMW2

Falkentyne said:


> Cool let us know how they do just like you let us know how your CPU's were doing.
> I guess it's sort of similar as to why 4000 CL19-19-39 Gskill b-dies are a crap bin. Binned at ridiculously loose timings which is why they are working at that speed. And I'd hate to see the subs...
> (You remember the tRFC of the steel viper 4400 CL19's? 730 or something awful...)
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-TridentZ-4000Mhz-PC4-32000-19-19-19-39/dp/B07K28FGJ5/


tRFC on my Viper's 770 which is indeed awfull but I see no reason for them to be that loose.
i'm running them 4400 19-19-19-39 tRFC 319 for now
will try to tighten them to something like 17-17-17-36 later.
my previous issues was IMC related, I need at least 1.34v VCCIO to even run 4400 MT/s no matter timings.


----------



## JoeRambo

I have been buying only two types of B-Die:


"cheapo" F4-3200C15D-32GVK and expensive 3600C15. 100 and 140 Euro atm. Their overclocking difference is their first word latencies: 9,375ns vs 8.33ns, the latter easily runs 3800+ 15-15-15 and cheaper kit 16-17-17 and takes way more effort and voltage.


----------



## munternet

JoeRambo said:


> I have been buying only two types of B-Die:
> 
> 
> "cheapo" F4-3200C15D-32GVK and expensive 3600C15. 100 and 140 Euro atm. Their overclocking difference is their first word latencies: 9,375ns vs 8.33ns, the latter easily runs 3800+ 15-15-15 and cheaper kit 16-17-17 and takes way more effort and voltage.


For the F4-3600C16D-32GTZR I paid about $365 USD which is about the best I can source


----------



## JoeRambo

munternet said:


> For the F4-3600C16D-32GTZR I paid about $365 USD which is about the best I can source





Ouch, but that is 32GB of DRAM, and mine are 2x8 kits. I have paid a total of 280 euros for 32GB 4x8GB, so not much cheaper.


----------



## opt33

AeonMW2 said:


> tRFC on my Viper's 770 which is indeed awfull but I see no reason for them to be that loose.
> i'm running them 4400 19-19-19-39 tRFC 319 for now
> will try to tighten them to something like 17-17-17-36 later.
> my previous issues was IMC related, I need at least 1.34v VCCIO to even run 4400 MT/s no matter timings.


have the same vipers 4400cl19, post your results when you tighten latency, interested to see what they do at higher speeds, my z390 gb aur master/crappy bios limited to 4133 stable (without flakiness). 

first pic vipers 4400cl19 will do 4133c16 at 1.47vdram, was aiming for 4000-4133c15 but takes 1.5+vdram to even boot ...and trfc floor is 280 on mine before unstable..for 24/7 use 340. first pic (if max trefi and trfc 280 latency drops .3, but shooting for 24/7 settings) sa/io need 1.29 to pass hci, need 1.31 to pass prime large ffts.


second pic tried gskills 4133 c17 2x8 kit 1.4v, but stuck at same 4133c16 except takes 1.44-1.45dram instead of 1.47 on vipers. But 4000- 4133c15 still 1.51+ vdram and flaky....past short run hci only to error after power spikes in gsat ? heat despite fan.


----------



## Imprezzion

My super cheap low bin Corsair 3466CL16 B-Die's run 280 tRFC stable up to 4133Mhz just fine on 17-17-17-28-280-2T @ 1.45v 24/7 clocks tested with many hours of HCI (12000% run overnight zero errors @ 44c DIMM temps) and months of general usage after that. 

Highest I got stable was 4200Mhz 16-17-17-34-320-2T so 320 tRFC on 1.556v DRAM but I don't 24/7 that clock even tho it survived 10000% HCI. Voltage is a tad high for me and DIMM's tend to get up to 48-49c which might get unstable during a hot ambient summer day so failed it back to 4133 CL17 daily.

IMHO any b-die should be capable of well under 350 tRFC up to 4200.


----------



## reflex75

AeonMW2 said:


> Falkentyne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool let us know how they do just like you let us know how your CPU's were doing.
> I guess it's sort of similar as to why 4000 CL19-19-39 Gskill b-dies are a crap bin. Binned at ridiculously loose timings which is why they are working at that speed. And I'd hate to see the subs...
> (You remember the tRFC of the steel viper 4400 CL19's? 730 or something awful...)
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-TridentZ-4000Mhz-PC4-32000-19-19-19-39/dp/B07K28FGJ5/
> 
> 
> 
> tRFC on my Viper's 770 which is indeed awfull but I see no reason for them to be that loose.
> i'm running them 4400 19-19-19-39 tRFC 319 for now
> will try to tighten them to something like 17-17-17-36 later.
> my previous issues was IMC related, I need at least 1.34v VCCIO to even run 4400 MT/s no matter timings.
Click to expand...

tRFC value is not awful, it's the official time duration from JEDEC to recharge memory cells during 350ns (tRFC) every 7.8us (tREFI)
You have to convert this duration of 350ns to your frequency.
You can check the last line of the matrix provided below. 
Shorter recharging time is OC, and Bdie have a lot of room to reduce it (around 200)
Reminder: RAM stability depends on temperature, and JEDEC mentions stability until 85c for internal memory chips. 
Choose your target maximum temperature depending on your use case (bench, game...) and work your OC to stay safe below. 
But remember, DIMMS temperatures provided in monitoring tools are from the PCB, which is colder than its internal memory chips attached to it.


----------



## ThrashZone

munternet said:


> For the F4-3600C16D-32GTZR I paid about $365 USD which is about the best I can source


Hi,
Yeah I wouldn't worry about how well the kit does you'll find out soon enough 

I personally go by benchmark scores which frequency works best not by anything aida64 says
At present 4k mhz performs best at 1.43v dimm instead of 3200c14 at 1.45v+


----------



## Roidsy

munternet said:


> For the F4-3600C16D-32GTZR I paid about $365 USD which is about the best I can source


Yikes... it probably would have been cheaper to just have someone from another country buy it and send it to you, it was $240 for me.


----------



## opt33

yeah, trfc more voltage dependent/scales more than some of other settings. On my stock bought gskill 4133c17 1.4, patriot vipers 4400cl19 1.45, and trident xtreme 4133c18 1.4, all 3 set secondary timings twr 12-14, tRRD_L 6, tRRD_s 4, tWTR_l 8 or 9, tWTR_s 4, tRTP 8, without touching voltages and run hci stable for hours (since at 1.4v or higher stock). But tFAW had to be 1.43+v min to use 16 and trfc scaled on all 3 about same 1.47v dram ~ 280, 1.43v 340 (320 errors at 1.43).


----------



## munternet

Roidsy said:


> Yikes... it probably would have been cheaper to just have someone from another country buy it and send it to you, it was $240 for me.


$240 + $22.50 freight + 15% tax = $301.87 and maybe customs problems at the boarder 
I think I just have to accept that we get tucked here


----------



## AeonMW2

opt33 said:


> have the same vipers 4400cl19, post your results when you tighten latency, interested to see what they do at higher speeds, my z390 gb aur master/crappy bios limited to 4133 stable (without flakiness).
> 
> first pic vipers 4400cl19 will do 4133c16 at 1.47vdram, was aiming for 4000-4133c15 but takes 1.5+vdram to even boot ...and trfc floor is 280 on mine before unstable..for 24/7 use 340. first pic (if max trefi and trfc 280 latency drops .3, but shooting for 24/7 settings) sa/io need 1.29 to pass hci, need 1.31 to pass prime large ffts.
> 
> 
> second pic tried gskills 4133 c17 2x8 kit 1.4v, but stuck at same 4133c16 except takes 1.44-1.45dram instead of 1.47 on vipers. But 4000- 4133c15 still 1.51+ vdram and flaky....past short run hci only to error after power spikes in gsat ? heat despite fan.


just did some quick testing. 4400 17-18-18-37 tRFC 319 looks stable. 1.48v dram / 1.34v IO / 1.34v SA (1 hour TM5 extreme, prime95 800k fft's for 30 mins, 2 hours of Battlefield 5). 
1.48v dram just my first guess, didn't think about it too much. IO/SA on the other hand has to be like that.
seems like i'm on the edge of my IMC capabilities (given 1.34v IO and i don't really wanna go higher than that for 24/7) but RAM probably could do better.


----------



## munternet

AeonMW2 said:


> just did some quick testing. 4400 17-18-18-37 tRFC 319 looks stable. 1.48v dram / 1.34v IO / 1.34v SA (1 hour TM5 extreme, prime95 800k fft's for 30 mins, 2 hours of Battlefield 5).
> 1.48v dram just my first guess, didn't think about it too much. IO/SA on the other hand has to be like that.
> seems like i'm on the edge of my IMC capabilities (given 1.34v IO and i don't really wanna go higher than that for 24/7) but RAM probably could do better.


Do you need 1.34v io? A symptom of too low io is usually a crash or bluescreen for me.
What hardware do you have? Maybe do a rigbuilder or a list in your sig?


----------



## opt33

AeonMW2 said:


> just did some quick testing. 4400 17-18-18-37 tRFC 319 looks stable. 1.48v dram / 1.34v IO / 1.34v SA (1 hour TM5 extreme, prime95 800k fft's for 30 mins, 2 hours of Battlefield 5).
> 1.48v dram just my first guess, didn't think about it too much. IO/SA on the other hand has to be like that.
> seems like i'm on the edge of my IMC capabilities (given 1.34v IO and i don't really wanna go higher than that for 24/7) but RAM probably could do better.


nice... thanks for posting that...i should have done more research before getting Z390 GB mobo... cant play with higher frequencies as bios/ram training is terrible, ill go with asus next time, though looks like for 490 they did better. And yeah I need 1.31+ sa/io for prime large ffts for just 4133...hci will pass with 1.29 on each.


----------



## AeonMW2

munternet said:


> Do you need 1.34v io? A symptom of too low io is usually a crash or bluescreen for me.
> What hardware do you have? Maybe do a rigbuilder or a list in your sig?


yes I need 1.34 VCCIO to run anything higher than 4200. 1.33v is already freezing randomly in games. 1.32 can't pass TM5 at all, system just freeze.

10900K 5.1/4.5 ring, Gigabyte Vision G, Viper Steel 2x8Gb


----------



## munternet

AeonMW2 said:


> yes I need 1.34 VCCIO to run anything higher than 4200. 1.33v is already freezing randomly in games. 1.32 can't pass TM5 at all, system just freeze.
> 
> 10900K 5.1/4.5 ring, Gigabyte Vision G, Viper Steel 2x8Gb


The Viper Steels really like VDRAM. 1.6 to 1.7v at higher frequencies or tighter latency seems fine if you can cool it and the other voltages might be able to be set a little lower.


----------



## Betroz

AeonMW2 said:


> yes I need 1.34 VCCIO to run anything higher than 4200. 1.33v is already freezing randomly in games. 1.32 can't pass TM5 at all, system just freeze.
> 
> 10900K 5.1/4.5 ring, Gigabyte Vision G, Viper Steel 2x8Gb


Try running your 10900K with HyperThreading disabled.


----------



## munternet

AeonMW2 said:


> yes I need 1.34 VCCIO to run anything higher than 4200. 1.33v is already freezing randomly in games. 1.32 can't pass TM5 at all, system just freeze.
> 
> 10900K 5.1/4.5 ring, Gigabyte Vision G, Viper Steel 2x8Gb


You aren't getting any heat issues on the ram are you? There are no temp sensors on the Viper Steels so hard to tell.
Do you have active cooling like a fan directly on top of the RAM?
I'm running 4400cl17 on mine and need 1.64v DRAM. Guessing you will need from 1.5v to 1.58v for 4200cl16 and up to 1.65v for 4400cl17.


----------



## AeonMW2

munternet said:


> You aren't getting any heat issues on the ram are you? There are no temp sensors on the Viper Steels so hard to tell.
> Do you have active cooling like a fan directly on top of the RAM?
> I'm running 4400cl17 on mine and need 1.64v DRAM. Guessing you will need from 1.5v to 1.58v for 4200cl16 and up to 1.65v for 4400cl17.


well idk about heat I ran them for less than 24 hours with current settings, but everything running fine yet
but i'm only at 1.48 vddr right now (4400 17-18-18-37) so I don't think there is any heat issues at this kind of voltage

no direct active RAM cooling. just healthy airflow in the case


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> I'm running 4400cl17 on mine and need 1.64v DRAM.


That much vdimm for 4400C17. I run my Vipers at 4400 16-17-17-34 and 1.54v BIOS set (little over 1.55 load).


----------



## AeonMW2

Betroz said:


> That much vdimm for 4400C17. I run my Vipers at 4400 16-17-17-34 and 1.54v BIOS set (little over 1.55 load).


what's your VCCIO/SA ?


----------



## Betroz

AeonMW2 said:


> what's your VCCIO/SA ?


1.28v IO and 1.35v SA (BIOS set). Little higher under load.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> That much vdimm for 4400C17. I run my Vipers at 4400 16-17-17-34 and 1.54v BIOS set (little over 1.55 load).


Well you are on an Apex


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Is there a guide available for pushing around memory holes for higher frequency? Where can I learn more about this?


----------



## bp7178

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Is there a guide available for pushing around memory holes for higher frequency? Where can I learn more about this?


https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

bp7178 said:


> https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md


This guide doesn't mention memory holes, appreciate it though.


----------



## bp7178

XGS-Duplicity said:


> This guide doesn't mention memory holes, appreciate it though.


Are you just hitting a point where you need a lot more voltage to get to the next higher frequency?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

bp7178 said:


> Are you just hitting a point where you need a lot more voltage to get to the next higher frequency?


no, at least not to my knowledge, my board doesn't like training this specific kit(4x8gb c17-4000) with the memory straps for 4200/4266/4300/4400. In order to get 4200, I had to train 4133 memory strap + 101.5 busclock, then go back into bios after training to set the busclock to 100.00 and select 4200 memory strap + enable memory fast boot to be tm5 extreme stable across reboots/restarts/shutdowns. I guess this is pushing around memory holes or so I thought based on user input earlier in this thread this week. Looking to learn more to see if maybe I can maybe figure out a way to bump up to 4266/4300/4400.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> no, at least not to my knowledge, my board doesn't like training this specific kit(4x8gb c17-4000) with the memory straps for 4200/4266/4300/4400. In order to get 4200, I had to train 4133 memory strap + 101.5 busclock, then go back into bios after training to set the busclock to 100.00 and select 4200 memory strap + enable memory fast boot. I guess this is pushing around memory holes or so I thought based on user input earlier in this thread this week. Looking to learn more to see if maybe I can maybe figure out a way to bump up to 4266/4300/4400.


You need to fix everything in skew controls and RTL tables, that's a lot of work.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to fix everything in skew controls and RTL tables, that's a lot of work.


Hmmm what is skew controls?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Hmmm what is skew controls?


Timing between different signals. In ASUS BIOS it is under the timing menu. I think you can also find them in GIGA BIOS (sth like CMD CTRL DATA...risng/falling).


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Timing between different signals. In ASUS BIOS it is under the timing menu. I think you can also find them in GIGA BIOS (sth like CMD CTRL DATA...risng/falling).


Hmmm those aren't visible in my bios ;/. I must have gotten uber lucky or something that 4133 + 101.5busclock into 4200memstrap + mem fast boot worked out. I tried to do 4133 + higher busclock to reach 4266/4300/4400 but nope, just doesn't train at all, never gets past code 40 during the beginning memory training sequence or w/e it is, it tries like 20 times then mobo resets. Tried all sorts of voltages too.


----------



## opt33

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Hmmm those aren't visible in my bios ;/. I must have gotten uber lucky or something that 4133 + 101.5busclock into 4200memstrap + mem fast boot worked out. I tried to do 4133 + higher busclock to reach 4266/4300/4400 but nope, just doesn't train at all, never gets past code 40 during the beginning memory training sequence or w/e it is, it tries like 20 times then mobo resets. Tried all sorts of voltages too.


I have the same z390 GB auros master and 9900k. Mine will only boot 4266 (1.45 dram, 1.34 io/sa) choosing high freq under mem enhancement ? necessary..but what is necessary is leaving XMP off and have all timings including primary on auto... 4266 will then boot up every time but with crazy loose timings 22,30,30,64. Then can walk primary timings down until at some point it will then fail to post again, cant remember stopping point, but wasnt pretty. Though 4400 wont post regardless. 

bottom line we both bought wrong mobo for high freq ram, I got tired of trying past 4133 also known as playing with cmos.


----------



## SunnyStefan

munternet said:


> Ordered some F4-3600C16D-32GTZR off Amazon since that's pretty much the only place I can source it from New Zealand. Not cheap.
> It's the waiting that gets me. Two days and it hasn't been processed yet
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084NS4L3J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> I figure I will sell 2 or 3 other kits to fund it
> /me checks again. No, still hasn't moved....
> Looking forward to overclocking it. Anyone have this kit on a Z390? or even a Z490?
> Cheers



Hey I know a thing or two about overclocking dual rank b-die on Z390. I've got  this 2x16gb G.Skill Trident Z Neo kit. The stock XMP profile is 3600mhz 16-16-16-36-2T @ 1.35v, I'm pretty sure this is the same B-die bin as the older G.Skill Trident Z kit you referenced earlier.


With my ASRock Z390 Phantom ITX motherboard my fastest daily settings were 4124mhz 16-16-16-34-2T. These timings proved stable and were able to pass a variety of stress tests (Karhu 12000%, TM5 anta extreme preset, 2 hours of OCCT LDS w/ AVX2). My voltages values were reasonable ~ VDIMM: 1.5v VCCIO: 1.24v VCSSA: 1.27v.


4133mhz was the highest frequency I could get into windows with on Z390, I'm using this same kit right now on the Z490 platform and have been able to get into windows with 4300mhz 16-16-16-36-2T, although my latency is higher than it was on Z390 (37.2ns vs 35.6ns). Let me know if you have any questions about overclocking your kit .


----------



## munternet

SunnyStefan said:


> Hey I know a thing or two about overclocking dual rank b-die on Z390. I've got  this 2x16gb G.Skill Trident Z Neo kit. The stock XMP profile is 3600mhz 16-16-16-36-2T @ 1.35v, I'm pretty sure this is the same B-die bin as the older G.Skill Trident Z kit you referenced earlier.
> 
> 
> With my ASRock Z390 Phantom ITX motherboard my fastest daily settings were 4124mhz 16-16-16-34-2T. These timings proved stable and were able to pass a variety of stress tests (Karhu 12000%, TM5 anta extreme preset, 2 hours of OCCT LDS w/ AVX2). My voltages values were reasonable ~ VDIMM: 1.5v VCCIO: 1.24v VCSSA: 1.27v.
> 
> 
> 4133mhz was the highest frequency I could get into windows with on Z390, I'm using this same kit right now on the Z490 platform and have been able to get into windows with 4300mhz 16-16-16-36-2T, although my latency is higher than it was on Z390 (37.2ns vs 35.6ns). Let me know if you have any questions about overclocking your kit .


Cheers for the offer :thumb:
Good to see people are getting some decent overclocks with this configuration
My sticks are still waiting to get processed but I will take up your kind offer when they arrive if I have any problems
Cheers


----------



## N7+

Daily driver for my Unify. F4-3600C16D-32GTZN 2x16gb B-die kit.


----------



## munternet

N7+ said:


> Daily driver for my Unify.


Hi N7+. Welcome to OCN 
What ram configuration is that?
Maybe do a rigbuilder or list components in your sig


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Timing between different signals. In ASUS BIOS it is under the timing menu. I think you can also find them in GIGA BIOS (sth like CMD CTRL DATA...risng/falling).





XGS-Duplicity said:


> Hmmm what is skew controls?





XGS-Duplicity said:


> Hmmm those aren't visible in my bios ;/. I must have gotten uber lucky or something that 4133 + 101.5busclock into 4200memstrap + mem fast boot worked out. I tried to do 4133 + higher busclock to reach 4266/4300/4400 but nope, just doesn't train at all, never gets past code 40 during the beginning memory training sequence or w/e it is, it tries like 20 times then mobo resets. Tried all sorts of voltages too.





opt33 said:


> I have the same z390 GB auros master and 9900k. Mine will only boot 4266 (1.45 dram, 1.34 io/sa) choosing high freq under mem enhancement ? necessary..but what is necessary is leaving XMP off and have all timings including primary on auto... 4266 will then boot up every time but with crazy loose timings 22,30,30,64. Then can walk primary timings down until at some point it will then fail to post again, cant remember stopping point, but wasnt pretty. Though 4400 wont post regardless.
> 
> bottom line we both bought wrong mobo for high freq ram, I got tired of trying past 4133 also known as playing with cmos.


Gigabyte doesn't have those settings.
These are the only "Strange" settings that exist in the Gigabyte BIOS.
I only captured these ones since you guys don't need the normal timings.


----------



## Johaho

Mix Ripjaws V+FlareX Unfortunately not G-Sat stable


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Johaho said:


> Mix Ripjaws V+FlareX


Mind letting that memtest ride out for 8 hours? What rtt resistances are you using? Which bios and is it modded?

How come someone can train 4300 with random sticks but I can't train 4300 with my expensive c17 4000 kit? I thought this **** is pay to play. What am i doing wrong on the aorus master?


----------



## Johaho

Bios F11i modded.

Rtts are at auto.

Yeah this Bord is stupid at high Frequenzy. Mostly it trains Garbage at 4200 above.
Have to retrain several times before it runs by Karhu


----------



## ViTosS

Just tested my 8700k 5.2Ghz and RAM in BF5 (even knowing it was stable in stress testers), but I noticed the RAM sticks went up to 44 and 46C, when my [email protected] kit arrive I will test both of RAM sticks till 50C stable, to make sure it won't become unstable during gaming


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Mind letting that memtest ride out for 8 hours? What rtt resistances are you using? Which bios and is it modded?
> 
> How come someone can train 4300 with random sticks but I can't train 4300 with my expensive c17 4000 kit? I thought this **** is pay to play. What am i doing wrong on the aorus master?


The 8700k often performs better than the 9900k for ram overclocking, 8086k even better
There is much lottery


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Why? Why are older chips performing better than newer chips? Why is performance going backwards? How can I give it more juice besides sa/io. Isn't there some feature that can put my IMC in overdrive or something. Do i need to jack cpu plloc voltage even higher than 1.31v? What about dmi voltage? DMI is at 1v. Does higher mohms make a difference?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Johaho said:


> Bios F11i modded.
> 
> Rtts are at auto.
> 
> Yeah this Bord is stupid at high Frequenzy. Mostly it trains Garbage at 4200 above.
> Have to retrain several times before it runs by Karhu


Did you train it with regular memory strap or did you use a memory strap + bclk oc? If i seem annoyed, its because i am. I spend 1 year on this board trying to get higher than 4200 with no damn luck. 300 dollars in restock fees from ramkits over the course of a year. i'm gonna go on a rampage. please let your memtest run at least 8 hours and post the results. have you ran it through tm5 extreme preset yet?


----------



## Johaho

Regular BCLK 100.

Whats the advantage of Tm5 compared to Karhu?.


----------



## munternet

Johaho said:


> Regular BCLK 100.
> 
> Whats the advantage of Tm5 compared to Karhu?.


TM5 is becoming more popular as a fast and thorough test for ram stability (in conjunction with other testing utilities) if using the correct .cfg file. eg [email protected] or 1usmus_v3.cfg


----------



## Johaho

Ok thanks for info. 

Anyway no chance to pass G-Sat with this setting.

But it seems the Master can do more than 4200 with an good IMC


----------



## munternet

Johaho said:


> Ok thanks for info.
> 
> Anyway no chance to pass G-Sat with this setting.
> 
> But it seems the Master can do more than 4200 with an good IMC


Yeah, I had an opportunity to get a binned 8086k with a good IMC but opted to stay with the 9900ks for the extra cores and frequency 
Kedarwolf got some good results with the Master also if you search his name back through the thread


----------



## Johaho

The Master is a good Board. But next upgrade i will switch back to Asus. I am missing some Options when it comes to memory oc.


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Mind letting that memtest ride out for 8 hours? What rtt resistances are you using? Which bios and is it modded?
> 
> How come someone can train 4300 with random sticks but I can't train 4300 with my expensive c17 4000 kit? I thought this **** is pay to play. What am i doing wrong on the aorus master?


Gigabyte IS the problem. Worst MB for memoryoverclocking 

Sorry


----------



## Gregix

Well, I liked 3800Mhz 14-14-14-30. After VCore bump to 1.285V it was running flawlessly through gaming and everything else with nice 1.5VDram and 1.26SA 1.2IO set in bios. For more than week.
Yesterday I gave my Patriots Viper Steel another shot at 4100 c15. Now after some voltage tuning seems stable too. I give them longer Karhu run as must drive for few hours now, so maybe it won't be stable after all, but have high hopes.

BTW Taichi. Bios 4.2 suck. And cannot roll back ;/. I liked 1.3version, before all spectre/meltdown patches.
It suck, bcoz when I set 1,285v in bios, CPU-Z and HWi64 shows 1.264V core all the time while some load(light to heavy). No load 1.28V... No wonder when I set 1,265Vcore in bios I had freezes in games, it was dropping to 1,24 which was not enough for this CPU with so strained IMC. 
Cheers!

Damn....
Forgot to ask, do u know guys what timings I should press on to get more write/read& latency boost?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Johaho said:


> Regular BCLK 100.
> 
> Whats the advantage of Tm5 compared to Karhu?.


Hey, I wanted to apologize for the way I reacted. I'm jealous and sometimes I have too much pride for my own good. Congratulations on an excellent result. You are the first i've seen get over 4200 on 4 dimms on the z390 master with a retail chip, job very well done. I crown you as the master of the aorus master. Great job.

I'm not sure what the advantages of tm5 over karhu are. I tried tm5 extreme for the first time the other week, seems to do pretty well, i use both now.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

[email protected] 8C/16T - [email protected] 16-17-17-37-2T - Karhu 10hours 24,000%
Values set in bios:
vdimm-1.5v
SA/IO-1.3v
ACDC-1
VcoreLLC-Low
Vcore-Normal-DVID Offset +65mv
EIST + C3
switchrate-300khz
phasecontrol-extreme


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> [email protected] 8C/16T - [email protected] 16-17-17-37-2T - Karhu 10hours 24,000%
> Values set in bios:
> vdimm-1.5v
> SA/IO-1.3v
> ACDC-1
> VcoreLLC-Low
> Vcore-Normal-DVID Offset +65mv
> EIST + C3
> switchrate-300khz
> phasecontrol-extreme


Can you post Aida64 memorybenchmark?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> Can you post Aida64 memorybenchmark?


As per request. trrd_L @4 instead of 6 puts me just over 63k reads but requires 10mv more vdimm. If I up the cache to 48, cores to 52 and turn off HT, latency goes down to 37.4ns and reads/copy improve. 53/49 ht/off gives something around around 64k reads, 65k writes and 62k copy with about 37.0ns latency. I'm a bit more on the conservative with trfc/trefi right now, still need to see how far I can push them without needing any extra voltage and how tolerant trefi will be of ambient. as usual, can't wait to see what you guys beat this down with, i'm sure you guys will top this in no time. 
Here is aida64 and geekbench3 32bit trial for 5ghz all core, 4.5ghz cache and the raming timings/frequency tested.


----------



## opt33

munternet said:


> TM5 is becoming more popular as a fast and thorough test for ram stability (in conjunction with other testing utilities) if using the correct .cfg file. eg [email protected] or 1usmus_v3.cfg


more efficient ram testing would be welcome.

I tried TM5 1usmus v3.cfg. 4100 C15 at 1.51v passed TM5 v3.cfg test twice..only 3mins each...then 2 errors with hci at 80% which is about 15 mins. 

The most annoying is 1.52v hci erred past 500%, that is what could be more efficient. Gsat passed 30mins, only for 2 errors in 2 hour test. Temps may play a role in long runs, maxing at 46.2C at 1.52v after cranking fans up over ram.

How long are people running TM5? ie I guess I can edit the cfg file for longer runs..for apples to apples would need to run same time.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

opt33 said:


> more efficient ram testing would be welcome.
> 
> I tried TM5 1usmus v3.cfg. 4100 C15 at 1.51v passed TM5 v3.cfg test twice..only 3mins each...then 2 errors with hci at 80% which is about 15 mins.
> 
> The most annoying is 1.52v hci erred past 500%, that is what could be more efficient. Gsat passed 30mins, only for 2 errors in 2 hour test. Temps may play a role in long runs, maxing at 46.2C at 1.52v after cranking fans up over ram.
> 
> How long are people running TM5? ie I guess I can edit the cfg file for longer runs..for apples to apples would need to run same time.


Just started using it, but when I use TM5 I just run the extreme anta777 preset. For 4x8gb, tm5 extreme automatically tests for about 3 hours, 3 cycles total. How does someone increase the test duration or increase test cyrcles for a preconfigured preset? Also I think you have to run tm5 as administrator.


----------



## opt33

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Just started using it, but when I use TM5 I just run the extreme anta777 preset. For 4x8gb, tm5 extreme automatically tests for about 3 hours. I think with 2x8gb it tests for about half the time. How does someone increase the test duration for a preconfigured preset?


I just opened the "MT" cfg file in bin with notepad and change time from 100%, havent actually run it yet, but assume that will work, should be able edit what you want.

Ill look for anta777 preset, the 3 min auto test Im getting from v3.cfg didnt seem right.


----------



## Betroz

My setup was 500+% MemTestPRO 7 stable with 1.54 VDIMM. To pass 10 cycles with TM5, I had to increase VDIMM to 1.56v, so TM5 is much harder to pass, and does it in less time compared to MemTestPRO.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

opt33 said:


> I just opened the "MT" cfg file in bin with notepad and change time from 100%, havent actually run it yet, but assume that will work, should be able edit what you want.
> 
> Ill look for anta777 preset, the 3 min auto test Im getting from v3.cfg didnt seem right.


Falkentyne posted a tm5 extreme anta777 download within the last 10 pages of this thread if i recall correctly.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Betroz said:


> My setup was 500+% MemTestPRO 7 stable with 1.54 VDIMM. To pass 10 cycles with TM5, I had to increase VDIMM to 1.56v, so TM5 is much harder to pass, and does it in less time compared to MemTestPRO.


I can confirm tm5 extreme preset is harder to pass. I had a ram oc that errors in karhu right after the 6,400% mark but will error in tm5 extreme anta777 preset at the end of the first cycle or in the beginning of the second cycle out of 3 cyrcles. That makes me think karhu needs 8 hours at the very least for 4x8gb dimms.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> My setup was 500+% MemTestPRO 7 stable with 1.54 VDIMM. To pass 10 cycles with TM5, I had to increase VDIMM to 1.56v, so TM5 is much harder to pass, and does it in less time compared to MemTestPRO.


7.0 is too weak. You should at least run 7.5 version.


----------



## opt33

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Falkentyne posted a tm5 extreme anta777 download within the last 10 pages of this thread if i recall correctly.


Thanks!...ill find that.

actually i wasnt using the usmusv3 config as it turns out...I was using the default...had downloaded 2, picked wrong mt file. Ill try again with anta777 and 1usmusv3 ....would be great if it picked out errors faster than 3 hours of hci memtest.


----------



## SunnyStefan

The anta777 preset consistently finds errors faster than the 1usmusv3 preset in my experience.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

opt33 said:


> Thanks!...ill find that.
> 
> actually i wasnt using the usmusv3 config as it turns out...I was using the default...had downloaded 2, picked wrong mt file. Ill try again with anta777 and 1usmusv3 ....would be great if it picked out errors faster than 3 hours of hci memtest.


I personally use Ollie. Unstable pc usually present errors in 30sec (test 1 and 2). In other cases somewhere around tests 8 and 9.


----------



## Betroz

Can any of you post those TM5 presets here? I only have 1usmus v3. Thanx 
And which is the best? Matter of opinion?


----------



## opt33

I found anta777 preset config file here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uegPn9ZuUoWxOssCP4PjMjGW9eC_1VJA/edit

I just copied that to clipboard. duplicated TM5 and renamed tm5anna so didnt lose 1usmus. Have to right click on MT file in bin and uncheck read only (properties) so you can edit, then replace contents of MT file with clipboard and save. Then you will have both. I just am trying both.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Hi Guys,

I recently built a PC to my 6 years old son (i5 10600k at 5Ghz with Ram at 3800mhz cl19, with GTX 1080ti, everything watercooled) and got a little jealous so I'm looking to upgrade my memory in my i9 9900k / RTX 2080ti rig.

I have been lurking this thread for quite some time and wants to change my current memory with B-Die sticks...I currently have a set of G Skill Trident Royal Z - 2 x 16GB at 3600mhz 19-20-20-42 at 1.35v. 

What do you guys suggest? I am mostly playing games.


----------



## opt33

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I personally use Ollie. Unstable pc usually present errors in 30sec (test 1 and 2). In other cases somewhere around tests 8 and 9.


thanks, Ill try that config as well....found it mid way down at link below in case anyone else wants it.
https://bbs.nga.cn/read.php?tid=21479071&rand=850


----------



## Falkentyne

opt33 said:


> Thanks!...ill find that.
> 
> actually i wasnt using the usmusv3 config as it turns out...I was using the default...had downloaded 2, picked wrong mt file. Ill try again with anta777 and 1usmusv3 ....would be great if it picked out errors faster than 3 hours of hci memtest.


Delete the cfg.link file only after the very first run (apparently you're supposed to do that or something).


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

opt33 said:


> more efficient ram testing would be welcome.
> 
> I tried TM5 1usmus v3.cfg. 4100 C15 at 1.51v passed TM5 v3.cfg test twice..only 3mins each...then 2 errors with hci at 80% which is about 15 mins.
> 
> The most annoying is 1.52v hci erred past 500%, that is what could be more efficient. Gsat passed 30mins, only for 2 errors in 2 hour test. Temps may play a role in long runs, maxing at 46.2C at 1.52v after cranking fans up over ram.
> 
> How long are people running TM5? ie I guess I can edit the cfg file for longer runs..for apples to apples would need to run same time.


I tried similar ram settings as the ones you posted, [email protected] Could train fine at 1.5v but windows was weird and ethernet wasn't working, even with more voltages. I think at CL15 4100+ my dimms prefer lower tras but with more vdimm.


----------



## opt33

Thanks....Tm5 anna777 and ollie presets are both much better! I ran 4100c15 at 1.51v which usually gets 1 error around 10-25 minute mark on hci memtest pro, this time 1 error at just over 10 minutes.

anna777 and ollie presets both found first error within about a minute, both had over 15 errors within 3 mins. 
hopefully now will be more efficient to pin down that 300%-500% hci error at 1.52v since dont want to go up much more on volts.


----------



## Betroz

But is there any point anymore running MemTestPRO for hours, when we can just run TM5 with anta777 preset for 10+ cycles...?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Betroz said:


> But is there any point anymore running MemTestPRO for hours, when we can just run TM5 with anta777 preset for 10+ cycles...?


always good to test with multiple programs right?


----------



## Betroz

XGS-Duplicity said:


> always good to test with multiple programs right?


Maybe, but it takes time and is boring.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Maybe, but it takes time and is boring.


You got that right :thumb:

I have put together a thread with a download link for TestMem5 with a collection of custom config files and a tutorial

https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1751608-memory-testing-testmem5-tm5-custom-configs.html


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Can tRTP be 4 on z390? I know most guides say 6 is the minimum but I saw a post where gen. said that tWR=tCL/2 and then tRTP=tWR/2. So if my tCL is 16, and tWR is 8, then tRTP should be 4 right?


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Can tRTP be 4 on z390? I know most guides say 6 is the minimum but I saw a post where gen. said that tWR=tCL/2 and then tRTP=tWR/2. So if my tCL is 16, and tWR is 8, then tRTP should be 4 right?


Gen. also said that tWR should be 16
I did some extensive testing on my Z390 Gene XI from tWR 6 - 24 and 16 was indeed the best for performance in Aida64 across read, write, copy and latency
It may be different on the Z490 platform....


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Gen. also said that tWR should be 16
> I did some extensive testing on my Z390 Gene XI from tWR 6 - 24 and 16 was indeed the best for performance in Aida64 across read, write, copy and latency
> It may be different on the Z490 platform....


hmmm okay
This is what i was going to work on. Should I just raise tWR to 16 then? can't figure out the life for me how to even up the reads/writes. Can do it fine all the way up to 3900 but then at 4000 and up, there is atleast a 1k gap between the two.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> hmmm okay
> This is what i was going to work on. Should I just raise tWR to 16 then? can't figure out the life for me how to even up the reads/writes. Can do it fine all the way up to 3900 but then at 4000 and up, there is atleast a 1k gap between the two.


Those performance figures look decent :thumb:
Gen. seemed very adamant about the settings so I actually saved the text 
2x8GB so I don't know what is relevant 

@munternet Sorry, but you have the wrong training, 
tWR, tCKE, tWTR_L (WRRD_sg) can be lower
tRFC can be lower + multiple of 8
It is also better to set tCWL = tCL
tRDWR = 10
tWR=16
tRTP=8
tWRPRE=36
tRDPRE=8
tWTR_L=8
tWRRD_sg=30
tWRRD_dg=26
tCWL=16
tRDWR_sg =10
tRDWR_dg =10
tRFC=320 and lower.
tCKE=8

Hope that helps


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Those performance figures look decent :thumb:
> Gen. seemed very adamant about the settings so I actually saved the text
> 2x8GB so I don't know what is relevant
> 
> @munternet Sorry, but you have the wrong training,
> tWR, tCKE, tWTR_L (WRRD_sg) can be lower
> tRFC can be lower + multiple of 8
> It is also better to set tCWL = tCL
> tRDWR = 10
> tWR=16
> tRTP=8
> tWRPRE=36
> tRDPRE=8
> tWTR_L=8
> tWRRD_sg=30
> tWRRD_dg=26
> tCWL=16
> tRDWR_sg =10
> tRDWR_dg =10
> tRFC=320 and lower.
> tCKE=8
> 
> Hope that helps


Thank you , +1 rep, will add this to my screenshot book of ranges/rules


----------



## SunnyStefan

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Thank you , +1 rep, will add this to my screenshot book of ranges/rules



This guide by *sdch* is worth adding to your notes too:

*Intel Memory Overclocking Quick Reference*


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Thank you , +1 rep, will add this to my screenshot book of ranges/rules


Some will work but without the asrock config shot some of that will be meaningless.
Don't know if this shot of my daily will help...
Had to up tWRRD_sg and dg which changed tWTR_L and S to get rid of a lone error.
Didn't impact performance much but improved stability


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Some will work but without the asrock config shot some of that will be meaningless.
> Don't know if this shot of my daily will help...
> Had to up tWRRD_sg and dg which changed tWTR_L and S to get rid of a lone error.
> Didn't impact performance much but improved stability


Tm5 extreme vs karhu vs HCI stability is interesting. I can pass karhu and hci with stuff like [email protected] with tight subs @ 1.56v set in bios but tm5 extreme ain't having none of that lol.


----------



## munternet

SunnyStefan said:


> This guide by *sdch* is worth adding to your notes too:
> 
> *Intel Memory Overclocking Quick Reference*


That is a good link for sure and there is definitely some good information in there 
but just pushing numbers lower for sake sake of lowering them is counterproductive in some instances


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Tm5 extreme vs karhu vs HCI stability is interesting. I can pass karhu and hci with stuff like [email protected] with tight subs @ 1.56v set in bios but tm5 extreme ain't having none of that lol.


There is now a link in my sig for downloading different config files with TM5
I will be getting some feedback on which are the best and fastest and updating the thread in the near future


----------



## KaRLiToS

munternet said:


> Some will work but without the asrock config shot some of that will be meaningless.
> Don't know if this shot of my daily will help...
> Had to up tWRRD_sg and dg which changed tWTR_L and S to get rid of a lone error.
> Didn't impact performance much but improved stability


Is 16GB enough for Gaming? I might get the same kit as you to pair with my i9 9900k. I actually have some G Skill Trident Royal Z 3600mhz 2 x 16GB 19-20-20-40. I have a Gigabyte Z390 Master. It's actually running at 3800mhz 20-21-21-42. 

I'm looking for a kit so I can have good scores like you guys. Just not sure if going from 32GB to 16GB is a good move. I also wonder if it's worth it to change my RAM sticks to get some b-die ones.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> That is a good link for sure and there is definitely some good information in there
> but just pushing numbers lower for sake sake of lowering them is counterproductive in some instances


100% this. evening out . Thanks for the tip


----------



## munternet

KaRLiToS said:


> Is 16GB enough for Gaming? I might get the same kit as you to pair with my i9 9900k. I actually have some G Skill Trident Royal Z 3600mhz 2 x 16GB 19-20-20-40. I have a Gigabyte Z390 Master. It's actually running at 3800mhz 20-21-21-42.
> 
> I'm looking for a kit so I can have good scores like you guys. Just not sure if going from 32GB to 16GB is a good move. I also wonder if it's worth it to change my RAM sticks to get some b-die ones.


If you want to get new sticks just for ram scores there is much to consider
Firstly there are new boards out with daisy chain topology that can run 2 sticks very well and also have a very good IMC it seems
Z390 Master is probably not the best choice for trying to get good numbers on 2 sticks, being T-topology
There are 2 DIMM Z390 boards that will work better for raw numbers on 2 sticks
16GB is plenty for most things


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

KaRLiToS said:


> Is 16GB enough for Gaming? I might get the same kit as you to pair with my i9 9900k. I actually have some G Skill Trident Royal Z 3600mhz 2 x 16GB 19-20-20-40. I have a Gigabyte Z390 Master. It's actually running at 3800mhz 20-21-21-42.
> 
> I'm looking for a kit so I can have good scores like you guys. Just not sure if going from 32GB to 16GB is a good move. I also wonder if it's worth it to change my RAM sticks to get some b-die ones.


If you are on the aorus master, stick to 4 dimms imo. 

In terms of kits,
I see guys n gals here get some great results with these 4 dimm kits on 4 dimm boards: CL14-3200, CL17-400, CL15-4000, CL15-3600 but is not always bdie, cl17-4266 is probably the best 4 dimm kit for this board assuming you are going to manually tune.


----------



## KaRLiToS

XGS-Duplicity said:


> If you are on the aorus master, stick to 4 dimms imo.
> 
> In terms of kits,
> I see guys n gals here get some great results with these 4 dimm kits on 4 dimm boards: CL14-3200, CL17-400, CL15-4000, CL15-3600 but is not always bdie, cl17-4266 is probably the best 4 dimm kit for this board assuming you are going to manually tune.


You mean this one? https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232678


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> 100% this. evening out . Thanks for the tip


Looking good :thumb:

tRFC can be greater if there are any errors. Lower than 360 doesn't even give me much if any gains on my hardware
Can try tWRRD_sg = 30, tWTR_L = 8 also to benfit the overall performance and stability, It may let more important numbers be lowered


----------



## munternet

KaRLiToS said:


> You mean this one? https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232678


That looks like a fantastic kit but...If you are going to spend that kind of money on ram wouldn't you really have to look at the big picture and decide if it's the right time to sell your gear and put it towards the new platform and get 32GB 2x16GB sticks or whatever configuration they excel at? I know I would


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

KaRLiToS said:


> You mean this one? https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232678


Yes, its probably the best 4 dimm kit for z390 t-top boards at this time(haven't checked the market in a few weeks though). I haven't had a chance to play with the corsair 4x8gb 4400 kit but i think it has loose timings like 19-26-26 or something like that but its the only 4x8gb 4400 kit on the market. Gskill did not validate that kit on the aorus master, they did on the aorus xtreme though. It means xmp could be a crapshoot on the master but manual tuning somewhere between 4000-4200+ with ultra tight timings will yield some serious results for daily use. 

If you got money to blow, buy a quad channel 8x8gb dimm CL15-4000 kit, bin the dimms, keep the best 4 and sell the other 4. They will be of slightly higher quality than the dimms from a 4x8gb cl15-4000 kit or a 2x8gb cl15-4000 kit. Maybe a 10mv to 20mv advantage at certain frequencies/timings, could allow you to hit a higher memory strap or lower cas before banks stop working from too much voltage if you were really trying to push sticks far for daily use.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Looking good :thumb:
> 
> tRFC can be greater if there are any errors. Lower than 360 doesn't even give me much if any gains on my hardware
> Can try tWRRD_sg = 30, tWTR_L = 8 also to benfit the overall performance and stability, It may let more important numbers be lowered


errored quickly in tm5 extreme, tried increasing vdimm/sa/io to see if it made a difference, its the timings. Adjusted twtr_l to 8. running it through again. if it fails again gonna raise trfc to 320, then to 360. If reads/write/copy fall below 64/64/62 with 52/49, i'll probably scrap this profile since its at 1.55v vdimm set in bios currently. Conservative trfc/trefi needed 1.53v for tm5 extreme stability 3 cycles at 16-16-16-36 4200 at 52/48.


----------



## Johaho

Possibly interesting for some. Gskill has chanced the Pcb at the Ripjaws V 3200 CL14.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Time for big boy voltages....


----------



## BotSkill

munternet said:


> Some will work but without the asrock config shot some of that will be meaningless.
> Don't know if this shot of my daily will help...
> Had to up tWRRD_sg and dg which changed tWTR_L and S to get rid of a lone error.
> Didn't impact performance much but improved stability


Hi munternet!

What memory kit are you using for this 4400 17-17-17 settings? A0/A1 or A2 PCB? And can you share voltages used for DDR / IO / SA ?


----------



## munternet

BotSkill said:


> Hi munternet!
> 
> What memory kit are you using for this 4400 17-17-17 settings? A0/A1 or A2 PCB? And can you share voltages used for DDR / IO / SA ?


Viper Steels 4400cl19 PVS416G440C9K Water cooled
I think it's A2 PCB. It has a large gap between the 2 groups of chips.
VDRAM 1.64v
VCCIO 1.3v
VCCSA 1.375v


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Z390 Aorus Master - [email protected]/Cores 4.85GHz/Cache 8C/8T [email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T Karhu 6,400% - Good enough for gaming 
Bios set values:
vdimm-1.6v
Sa/IO-1.35v
Bios-F9(stock)
140mm fan over vrms, 120mm fan over the dimms, 40mm fan blowing air between the dimms, cardboard box contraption running from central air conditioning vent to case/aio/rad. Ambient around 70F, AC was also set to 70F. I imagine this would also be memtest stable without the cardboard box/central air jerryrig if I had custom watercooling for the cpu and ram, maybe one day i'll dive into it.


----------



## BotSkill

munternet said:


> Viper Steels 4400cl19 PVS416G440C9K Water cooled
> I think it's A2 PCB. It has a large gap between the 2 groups of chips.
> VDRAM 1.64v
> VCCIO 1.3v
> VCCSA 1.375v


Thanks. Just got the same kit this week. Will try and match your settings. I'm on an Maximus XI Apex and 8700K. For the moment i'm testing 4133MHz 16-16-16-36 1T with 1.445 VDRAM, 1.2 VCCIO and 1.25 VCCSA.


----------



## Betroz

@XGS-Duplicity
Too bad that the Gigabyte board sets RTL og IOL that high. Your latency would improve with lower RTL and IOL values, as you probably know.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Betroz said:


> @XGS-Duplicity
> Too bad that the Gigabyte board sets RTL og IOL that high. Your latency would improve with lower RTL and IOL values, as you probably know.


O i know. I feel like i'm really close to competing with an apex here though. Like, really really close. I am gonna guess that i'm either on par with or outperforming a z390 apex bandwidth-wise at c15/4266 across the board. How much better can an apex offer on latency at 4266 15-15-15-32-2T? Do you have any memtest stable samples for me to compare to by chance? What about other 4 dimm z390 motherboards? Are there any other 4 dimm boards that are capable of achieving this result? I'd like to compare results if possible.


----------



## Betroz

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Do you have any memtest stable samples for me to compare to by chance?


Not CL15, but 16


----------



## Betroz

I am aware that a few settings in the pic is wrongly set, as you can see. But it was MemTestPRO stable for 700% or so.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi, Guys. Second test after the PC is completely de-energized
Memories 4700Mhz CL 17-17-17-36
ODT WR 80
ODT PARK 0(Disable)
ODT NOM 34


----------



## Gregix

Must admit, that ollie.cfg for Testmem5 is brilliant.
I mean, got karhu stable like 24k% on sons PC(TG 8pack 2x8gb, [email protected]). Tried first 1usmus, passed. Tried ollie, error/s in 2 min.
Same here (Patriot [email protected]), with too tight tWR (12) error in 2-4 mins. As someone said earlier, should be tWR=16 so I changed it, now it runs till like 40 min, no problem(passing 1usmus earlier, 36k% Karhu...)
Need to test more, at the moment PITA is cold bug, so I need to loose something, somewhere to avoid this...


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Betroz said:


> Not CL15, but 16


It's gotta be memtest stable in a screenshot, bare minimum 6,400% karhu or at least 3 cycles of tm5 extreme anta777 preset, not just a benchmark next to asrock timing config. Need proof of concept of c15-4266 to make a direct comparison. 

How is tcke at 6 working? Gen.(a top Russian memory overclocker) says tcke should be at 8.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> It's gotta be memtest stable in a screenshot, bare minimum 6,400% karhu or at least 3 cycles of tm5 extreme anta777 preset, not just a benchmark next to asrock timing config. Need proof of concept of c15-4266 to make a direct comparison.
> 
> How is tcke at 6 working? Gen.(a top Russian memory overclocker) says tcke should be at 8.


Is a 2 dimm board so tCKE can be pretty much whatever you want


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Is a 2 dimm board so tCKE can be pretty much whatever you want


Ahhhh, thank you for informing me. I had assumed when the user said timings were off that TCKE may be the one that he is referring to.


----------



## Betroz

XGS-Duplicity said:


> It's gotta be memtest stable in a screenshot, bare minimum 6,400% karhu or at least 3 cycles of tm5 extreme anta777 preset, not just a benchmark next to asrock timing config. Need proof of concept of c15-4266 to make a direct comparison.


What I meant was that tRDWR_sg, tRDWR_dg, tRDWR_dr and tRDWR_dd should all be the same, which they were not in my screen. That and I have upgraded to 10900K and are running different settings now.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Betroz said:


> What I meant was that tRDWR_sg, tRDWR_dg, tRDWR_dr and tRDWR_dd should all be the same, which they were not in my screen. That and I have upgraded to 10900K and are running different settings now.


Understood, Fair enough.


----------



## Jpmboy

AFAIK, tCKE is basically irrelevant, it is a power down state timer.


----------



## Roidsy

Updated with a Karhu run because I forgot last time. I can boot in tweak mode 2 with 6 io-l's at these settings and 16 trcd/trp but I haven't found a way to actually get 16 or 17 trcd/trp stable (which I why I'm running 16-18-18 and not 17-17-17; 18-18-18 just performs worse). 4500+ is unstable even at cl18 with every other setting on auto; probably an unhappy IMC...


----------



## munternet

BotSkill said:


> Thanks. Just got the same kit this week. Will try and match your settings. I'm on an Maximus XI Apex and 8700K. For the moment i'm testing 4133MHz 16-16-16-36 1T with 1.445 VDRAM, 1.2 VCCIO and 1.25 VCCSA.


You shouldn't need as much voltage as my Gene XI on an Apex XI with 8700k. I think Gen. has very similar hardware to you and he has posted some very nice results which you might want to look at
Just search up his posts


----------



## munternet

Roidsy said:


> Updated with a Karhu run because I forgot last time. I can boot in tweak mode 2 with 6 io-l's at these settings and 16 trcd/trp but I haven't found a way to actually get 16 or 17 trcd/trp stable (which I why I'm running 16-18-18 and not 17-17-17; 18-18-18 just performs worse). 4500+ is unstable even at cl18 with every other setting on auto; probably an unhappy IMC...


What happened with your other 2x16GB sticks?


----------



## Roidsy

munternet said:


> What happened with your other 2x16GB sticks?


I took them out for now because I didn't have time to mess with them, the next time I get a day off I'll see if I can track down what was causing such a fuss. Side note, TridentZ heatsinks are as sharp as they look, got me in two spots while I was uninstalling them lol.


----------



## Betroz

I have now tested a lot with the TestMem5 program, especially with the [email protected] and 1usmus_v3.cfg presets. Things that will pass several hundred percent with the HCI MemtestPRO program, fail with TM5 and the anta777 preset.

Yesterday and last night I tried to validate my RAM setup with TM5 and anta777, and I fail at some point anyway it seems. From what I can see, if I get an error in TM5, then it is most likely that VDIMM is too low, because when I increased VDIMM it went away. But I have also gotten several hard locks where the machine freezes completely. It helped to increase IO and SA volts, which tells me that TM5 also stresses the IMC a lot compared to HCI's MemtestPRO. Is it possible that 4900 Ring is too much for my IMC? So last night, it had been 4 hours without a problem, but when I got up today, the machine had hung up after 5 hours and 11 cycles of TM5 anta777..! ***!? That and why anta777 takes waaay longer to pass 10 cycles compared to 1usmus_v3, I don't know...

The thing is that yes, I can increase both vcore and IO and SA volts even more, but what if my PC hangs after 6 hours or 7 ...? I'm now thinking more and more of just not giving a damn, because Battlefield 5 is completely stable for me. 2 hours Realbench 2.56 too. (no WHEA errors in HWiNFO64)

Below is my current settings. Something obvious wrong here or advice guys? (CPU is at 5200 HT off, X49 ring and load temps under 80C)

Edit : I have a 140mm fan over my Viper RAM sticks.


----------



## Larkonian

I have stopped using TestMem5.

I can run any other test software with no errors. Not a single crash, blue screen, freeze or error in months of operation. But MemTest5 gives me an error after a few seconds. Or minutes. Or hours. Seems a bit too random for my liking.

I consider this another Rowhammer test, remember that one?


----------



## Betroz

Larkonian said:


> I consider this another Rowhammer test, remember that one?


No. please enlighten me.


----------



## opt33

I like the fact that TM5 with anta777 and ollie has made it much more efficient to find issues, hci memtest is way too slow and annoying. 

4133C16 at 1.45 vdimm, 1.3 vccsa, 1.28 vccio passed overnight 2x with hci memtest, but knew it wasnt stable as I had game crash (never happened on prior cpu/mobo), and booting computer after long shutdown had bsod loading windows twice, had to go back to 4133c17 1.42 vdimm which never has issues for 24/7 while I tried to figure out instability problem.

tm5 ollie/anta both had multiple errors in first few minutes with 4133c16. took only few hours to adjust vdimm and back off couple settings to get stable on both, so hopefully can use 4133c16 now without crashing.

I was seriously thinking of getting rid of this GB mobo been so annoying getting ram stable, though still think this mobo/bios is part of problem.


----------



## Larkonian

Betroz said:


> No. please enlighten me.


In 2013 a test was added to Memtest86 using the Rowhammer technique (basically a memory exploit) and was made part of the standard test runs.

The test accesses memory in a way not used by normal software.

This resulted in lots of people getting errors on their otherwise stable systems and flooding forums with questions.

You can read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer


----------



## Betroz

Larkonian said:


> This resulted in lots of people getting errors on their otherwise stable systems and flooding forums with questions.


I see, so TM5 with anta777 preset could be doing something like that?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

So should we not be using tm5 Extreme then? @Falkentyne someone else mentioned memory exploit here. Are you aware of anything like this with tm5? Is what these other users saying accurate?


----------



## Gregix

There might be something in it, as for example, I pick some stressing test, aida64 stress test, IntelBurn or karhu, and can run something in background(Firefox, browsing, youtube etc...) and when I trying using TM with something other than 1usmusv3, like ollie or extreme and I have errors very quick. And my tabs crashing a lot. 
Idle (no other activity than TM5), ollie goes like 3 cycles no pro, extreme goes 1h40min until find some error(probably too low voltage, VDRAM voltage). 
So yeah, might be something.


----------



## Larkonian

I have no proof of my claim, it is just a suspicion. But I am not getting any errors in anything else I have tried running. Don't have Karhu though.

For general stability I have run Prime95 with different settings, Linpack Xtreme, GSAT and OCCT. HCI Memtest for memory, mostly 10000% runs.


----------



## Betroz

Maybe Prime95 non-avx + HCI MemTestPro is the way to go.


----------



## munternet

There are plenty of very good ram overclockers getting excellent results using TM5 without any problems
What I like about it is it's fast and fairly intense. I'm not patient so it suits me
If you are not going to use your PC for anything strenuous you might get away with mild testing
I've not seen people doing long runs with it and not sure of the wisdom of it. The attraction to me is the fast completion time
It's possible some might just use it as a quick testing tool for tuning and run other tests for longer periods once the errors have been largely eliminated, but that's up to the individual
I know with some of the lesser tests I still crash to desktop in BFV after passing them


----------



## opt33

Reading config file and authors page, it seems like authors simply pulled out several patterns of memory testing that tend to cause errors faster in their testing, like using favorite ffts in prime because tends to error faster. He even complains of HCI being systematic...instead of prioritizing. Tm5 configs wont test near as many patters as hci memtest, but may show some errors faster even though may or may not miss others.

I use hci memtest and large ffts prime for ram testing and will continue to do so....but will now use ollie/anta first for fast runs for dialing in settings since agree with munternet, I like the efficiency.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

opt33 said:


> Reading config file and authors page, it seems like authors simply pulled out several patterns of memory testing that tend to cause errors faster in their testing, like using favorite ffts in prime because tends to error faster. He even complains of HCI being systematic...instead of prioritizing. Tm5 configs wont test near as many patters as hci memtest, but may show some errors faster even though may or may not miss others.
> 
> I use hci memtest and large ffts prime for ram testing and will continue to do so....but will now use ollie/anta first for fast runs for dialing in settings since agree with munternet, I like the efficiency.


I swear I had the same thought earlier about using tm5 for dialing in initial settings! I feel like its really good to find your ram's general range for timings at a chosen frequency.


----------



## ViTosS

Doesn't exist any kind of software where I can game and the software in background checking errors just like when I'm running those stress tests? Would be really good to see if when RAM temps increase way higher while gaming (due to GPU load and heat in general) if the OC would still be stable. If was possible to let a program running in the background checking errors would be pretty nice


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> Doesn't exist any kind of software where I can game and the software in background checking errors just like when I'm running those stress tests? Would be really good to see if when RAM temps increase way higher while gaming (due to GPU load and heat in general) if the OC would still be stable. If was possible to let a program running in the background checking errors would be pretty nice


Set a notification on whea event to pop up from event log. Theres a thread here somewhere guiding you on this.. 

Anything else. Da bluescreen is your buddy. Lol


----------



## Falkentyne

Larkonian said:


> In 2013 a test was added to Memtest86 using the Rowhammer technique (basically a memory exploit) and was made part of the standard test runs.
> 
> The test accesses memory in a way not used by normal software.
> 
> This resulted in lots of people getting errors on their otherwise stable systems and flooding forums with questions.
> 
> You can read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer





Betroz said:


> I see, so TM5 with anta777 preset could be doing something like that?





XGS-Duplicity said:


> So should we not be using tm5 Extreme then? @Falkentyne someone else mentioned memory exploit here. Are you aware of anything like this with tm5? Is what these other users saying accurate?





Gregix said:


> There might be something in it, as for example, I pick some stressing test, aida64 stress test, IntelBurn or karhu, and can run something in background(Firefox, browsing, youtube etc...) and when I trying using TM with something other than 1usmusv3, like ollie or extreme and I have errors very quick. And my tabs crashing a lot.
> Idle (no other activity than TM5), ollie goes like 3 cycles no pro, extreme goes 1h40min until find some error(probably too low voltage, VDRAM voltage).
> So yeah, might be something.





Larkonian said:


> I have no proof of my claim, it is just a suspicion. But I am not getting any errors in anything else I have tried running. Don't have Karhu though.
> 
> For general stability I have run Prime95 with different settings, Linpack Xtreme, GSAT and OCCT. HCI Memtest for memory, mostly 10000% runs.


This is not much different than people trying to run prime95 small FFT FMA3 on their systems then flooding forums why their system is crashing, when nothing else shows errors (except trying to get matching residuals in LinX 0.9.7, 35000 sample size). Do people really truly need to pour 250 amps into a 10900k when nothing else that they actually USE realistically goes above 200 amps, then complain that 250 amps and 95C is unstable?

Now if your computer has to be used for scientific or medical industry work, then sure...you had better be stable in everything----then why are you not running stock, then?


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> Set a notification on whea event to pop up from event log. Theres a thread here somewhere guiding you on this..
> 
> Anything else. Da bluescreen is your buddy. Lol


If you mean WHEA detected from HWiNFO64 is not the same thing as errors being detected in TM5, HCI MemTest, etc, since these memory errors are not informed there...


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> If you mean WHEA detected from HWiNFO64 is not the same thing as errors being detected in TM5, HCI MemTest, etc, since these memory errors are not informed there...


its more of a cpu thing
hwinfo reads from event log in windows. its actually pretty slow. you can set a notification in windows to do a popup when whea appears. 

thats about it when you are gaming etc ..


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Doesn't exist any kind of software where I can game and the software in background checking errors just like when I'm running those stress tests? Would be really good to see if when RAM temps increase way higher while gaming (due to GPU load and heat in general) if the OC would still be stable. If was possible to let a program running in the background checking errors would be pretty nice


Doesn't sound like a good idea to me as the ram would have to be allocated wouldn't it? and the testing software has no way of knowing the load and voltages/current draw/fluctuations of the other application/game.


----------



## cstkl1

bios 88 apex txp, pdd.. ????


----------



## Betroz

Falkentyne said:


> Do people really truly need to pour 250 amps into a 10900k when nothing else that they actually USE realistically goes above 200 amps, then complain that 250 amps and 95C is unstable? Now if your computer has to be used for scientific or medical industry work, then sure...you had better be stable in everything----then why are you not running stock, then?


Very good point! That is why I stopped using Prime95 some time ago. Even non-avx Prime95 stresses your CPU/IMC much more than most other stuff. But again....it would seem non-avx Prime95 is needed to validate OC... LOL


----------



## Gen.

Ballistix E-Die works with XMP 3000 15-16-2T 1.35V to 4000 14-21-2T 1.47V  I'll show you everything soon, I wonder?


----------



## Gen.

Watch carefully

4000MHz DRAM 14-21-2T-4000MHz Core-4000MHz Ring 1.470VDRAM-1.150VCCIO-1.2000VCCSA


----------



## Gregix

tRDWR can go 11, tWRRDsg26 but...some combination crashes ollie. So it is as it is now. Maybe I cut some tRFC, and for trials lower my VDRAM a bit, as it was near perfect stable with just 1.52V.

My new daily driver, games stable, BFV dx12 stable, best bench/game scores(so far). As this looks like max what my IMC can do, I am thinking about 9900k/ks now...but they are so expensive...


----------



## skullbringer

my new 24/7 setup


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> my new 24/7 setup


Looking good! Do you have any Prime95 in-place 112K FFTs, non-avx action screen to show us?


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> Looking good! Do you have any Prime95 in-place 112K FFTs, non-avx action screen to show us?


how long and where would I see errors, whea in hwinfo?


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> how long and where would I see errors, whea in hwinfo?


2 hours. Prime95 can stop itself when an error is detected (or BSOD).


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> my new 24/7 setup


HT on or off?


----------



## SunnyStefan

skullbringer said:


> my new 24/7 setup


 5.5ghz is absolutely nuts, but so is setting your CPU core voltage to 1.55v in the context of a "24/7 setup" .


----------



## mouacyk

It's for science


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Hey if a frequency can be stabilized, why the heck not . sick result.


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> my new 24/7 setup


I might have secured the ONLY Apex XII to officially enter New Zealand 
Results look good :thumb:


----------



## Sedril

munternet said:


> I might have secured the ONLY Apex XII to officially enter New Zealand
> Results look good :thumb:



Nice!

Can't wait to see the results of all the RAM torturing you'll be doing to it....


----------



## munternet

Sedril said:


> Nice!
> 
> Can't wait to see the results of all the RAM torturing you'll be doing to it....


Lol, torturing. You know it


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> HT on or off?


HT on, haven't played with HT off at all so far



SunnyStefan said:


> 5.5ghz is absolutely nuts, but so is setting your CPU core voltage to 1.55v in the context of a "24/7 setup" .


With LLC6 Vcore droops below 1.45V under load, which is widely considered as "safe 24/7" voltage for intel 14nm++++++, so I'm fairly optimistic it won't degrade


----------



## alatron978

skullbringer said:


> HT on, haven't played with HT off at all so far
> 
> 
> 
> With LLC6 Vcore droops below 1.45V under load, which is widely considered as "safe 24/7" voltage for intel 14nm++++++, so I'm fairly optimistic it won't degrade



The whole 1.45V being regarded at safe is voltage set in bios, not voltage under load. Now voltage itself isn't what pushes your chip to degrade in 99.5% of cases, the current is what does. 1.45V on its own won't hurt... heck even 1.6v is fine, but the current induced by these voltages is stupidly high. 1.45V under load will be inducing crazy amounts of current.
Good luck with keeping that OC for an extended amount of time.


----------



## Nizzen

alatron978 said:


> skullbringer said:
> 
> 
> 
> HT on, haven't played with HT off at all so far
> 
> 
> 
> With LLC6 Vcore droops below 1.45V under load, which is widely considered as "safe 24/7" voltage for intel 14nm++++++, so I'm fairly optimistic it won't degrade /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole 1.45V being regarded at safe is voltage set in bios, not voltage under load. Now voltage itself isn't what pushes your chip to degrade in 99.5% of cases, the current is what does. 1.45V on its own won't hurt... heck even 1.6v is fine, but the current induced by these voltages is stupidly high. 1.45V under load will be inducing crazy amounts of current.
> Good luck with keeping that OC for an extended amount of time.
Click to expand...

If the cpu is alive until Rocketlake, it's long enough 😛

I don't keep "mainstream" cpu's for years. New every "season".

Buy, overclock, benchmark. Keep it until new cpu is coming, then repeat 😛


----------



## skullbringer

alatron978 said:


> The whole 1.45V being regarded at safe is voltage set in bios, not voltage under load. Now voltage itself isn't what pushes your chip to degrade in 99.5% of cases, the current is what does. 1.45V on its own won't hurt... heck even 1.6v is fine, but the current induced by these voltages is stupidly high. 1.45V under load will be inducing crazy amounts of current.
> Good luck with keeping that OC for an extended amount of time.


but with bios set voltage you have to take llc into account. and since nobody is talking about the llc for the safe voltage, I would assume people are actually talking about load voltage, not bios set voltage.

I am not running prime or heavy avx applications for extended amounts of time, hence my current should not reach dangerous levels. I bet even with 1.3V load and Prime AVX512 you could degrade your chip

I am also running direct die cooling, which is the only way you can even go above 1.3V without hitting TjMAX on these chips, so temps are much lower per clock/voltage compared to stock ihs. 

So yes, I am running close to the edge, but not over it, imho.


----------



## cstkl1

10900k - SP 81 
Asus M12E - 0606

*
51|[email protected] LL8 set
4x8gb [email protected] @1.4v set
vccio/[email protected]|1.28 set
*


----------



## zGunBLADEz

been busy with work and stuff but got me a deal on a 64GB kit on ebay this are B dies so i expect more or less than my other kits i have nothing fast just density wise and bit fast XD
Team T-Force XTREEM 64GB (4 x 16GB) TXD464G3733HC17AQC01

did the preliminary test @ advertised speeds and pass with flying colors..


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> 51|[email protected] LL8 set
> 4x8gb [email protected] @1.4v set
> vccio/[email protected]|1.28 set


Is that Prime95 112k fft stable? No plans for higher mem OC with 1.55 VDIMM?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Is that Prime95 112k fft stable? No plans for higher mem OC with 1.55 VDIMM?



10900k - SP 81 
Asus M12E - 0606

*
51|[email protected] L4 (asus predict.. vmin 1.17)
4x8gb [email protected] @1.4v set
vccio/[email protected]|1.28 set
*
FFT112 









I only will up vdimm if theres gain in bandwidth. Kindda dumb to overheat stuff for screenies. Lol

4x8gb bdie not easy . Theres still some stuff to settlr before giving a thumbs up on this.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> 51|[email protected] L4 (asus predict.. vmin 1.17)


Then your 10900K is way better than mine.


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> 2 hours. Prime95 can stop itself when an error is detected (or BSOD).


so uhm... i tried that and my system kept shutting down, which it never did before...

then I figured out that total system power draw from the wall with prime95 112fft no avx was over 650W, through a 650W power supply on my test bench... 

WHOOPS!  
thank god it's a Seasonic!


----------



## zGunBLADEz

and people never learn and keep using p95 XD


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> and people never learn and keep using p95 XD


The key here is to disable AVX in Prime95 (all of it).


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> The key here is to disable AVX in Prime95 (all of it).


I lowered my CPU frequency on my current system from 52/49 to 51/48 just to pass P95 small ffts with some of the AVX settings on.
With 52/49 I never had any WHEA errors or any problems with anything else and could pass hours of P95 v26.6


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> I lowered my CPU frequency on my current system from 52/49 to 51/48 just to pass P95 small ffts with some of the AVX settings on.
> With 52/49 I never had any WHEA errors or any problems with anything else and could pass hours of P95 v26.6


Use the newest version of P95 and set it like this : (AVX settings that is)


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Use the newest version of P95 and set it like this : (AVX settings that is)


Thanks :thumb:
I will try that with my new CPU I will be picking up tonight
Where is the best CPU overclocking tutorial for the 10900k on Apex XII? Probably looking at fixed frequency overclock
Cheers


----------



## Gen.

Everyone knows that I am from Russia, translate for yourself and understand. Helpful post from me!
https://forums.overclockers.ru/viewtopic.php?p=16969419#p16969419


----------



## cstkl1

Gen. said:


> Everyone knows that I am from Russia, translate for yourself and understand. Helpful post from me!
> https://forums.overclockers.ru/viewtopic.php?p=16969419#p16969419


Err no.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Then your 10900K is way better than mine.


Bro your 5.1 u need to find your vmin.
The WORST 10900k i ever seen vmin for 5.1 was 1.22.. although theoretical the worst bin should be 1.25 

Asus
Load optimize
Set LL4
Set manual vcore
Set voltage based on asus prediction for nonavx V req
Save enter windows
Open hwinfo
Run prime95 custom avx/avx2 disable fft80

For sp63 u should start with 1.4v (mine 1.375.. worst should be 1.445-1.465)

Sp63 are wildcard. The prediction wont work properly


----------



## munternet

cstkl1 said:


> Bro your 5.1 u need to find your vmin.
> The WORST 10900k i ever since vmin for 5.1 was 1.22.. although theoretical the worst bin should be 1.25
> 
> Asus
> Load optimize
> Set LL4
> Set manual vcore
> Set voltage based on asus prediction for nonavx V req
> Save enter windows
> Open hwinfo
> Run prime95 custom avx/avx2 disable fft80
> 
> For sp63 u should start with 1.4v (mine 1.375.. worst should be 1.445-1.465)
> 
> Sp63 are wildcard. The prediction wont work properly


Is there a full bios tutorial for overclocking XII Apex that people are using?
I could find one but it might be leading me up the garden path


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> Is there a full bios tutorial for overclocking XII Apex that people are using?
> I could find one but it might be leading me up the garden path


For cpu?? Any guide is only fixed for 5.1-5.2.. 5.3 and above every board/cpu etc diff

up to 5.1-5.2 is easy to replicate on any maximus board.


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Is there a full bios tutorial for overclocking XII Apex that people are using?
> I could find one but it might be leading me up the garden path


Should be pretty much the same of your current Z390 Gene, same BIOS interface, few changes compared to yours.


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> but with bios set voltage you have to take llc into account. and since nobody is talking about the llc for the safe voltage, I would assume people are actually talking about load voltage, not bios set voltage.
> 
> I am not running prime or heavy avx applications for extended amounts of time, hence my current should not reach dangerous levels. I bet even with 1.3V load and Prime AVX512 you could degrade your chip
> 
> I am also running direct die cooling, which is the only way you can even go above 1.3V without hitting TjMAX on these chips, so temps are much lower per clock/voltage compared to stock ihs.
> 
> So yes, I am running close to the edge, but not over it, imho.


No one knows what 'max' safe vcore under x # of amps is on Z490 10th gen. The only thing known is the 245 amps limit. The problem is the old formula of "1520mv - (1.1 mOhms * 245 amps) = 1.250v doesn't seem to apply anymore, because if you use auto vcore (or adaptive with 0mv offset), AC Loadline no longer boosts the operating VID voltage by "base vCPU + (ACLL mOhms * Amps) - (LLC Calibration mOhms * Amps) anymore.

I checked it directly. It's more like "base vCPU + (ACLL mOhms * 1/2 amps). I am NOT kidding". 
Pretty sure this has something to do with that "1520mv VID (1.520v) + 200mv "Serial offset VID" thing, which the CPU can request under some unknown condition, unless it can request up to 1.720v before vdroop any time it wants (assuming Loadline Calibration mOhms=1.1 mOhms of stock vdroop).

You can check for yourself. Set DC Loadline to 0.01 mOhms (Or 1 on a Gigabyte Bios) and set AC Loadline to whatever you want, up to 1.1 mOhms (110 on GB), and use FIXED Vcore (so you don't get overvoltage from a high ACLL + low vdroop danger setting). Then notice the CPU VID rise at load and calculate the rise. (also remembering the thermal velocity boost VID rise rate, at for example, x53 ratio = 1.55mv every 1C, and x52 ratio=1.45mv every 1C, and x50 ratio: 0.9mv every 1C, added to the VID).

So the answer is: no one knows. But these CPU's, at STOCK LLC (1.1 mOhms) and worst case AC Loadline (0.9 mOhms) will try to request 1.50v vcore at FULL LOAD at x52 and x53.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Falkentyne said:


> No one knows what 'max' safe vcore under x # of amps is on Z490 10th gen. The only thing known is the 245 amps limit. The problem is the old formula of "1520mv - (1.1 mOhms * 245 amps) = 1.250v doesn't seem to apply anymore, because if you use auto vcore (or adaptive with 0mv offset), AC Loadline no longer boosts the operating VID voltage by "base vCPU + (ACLL mOhms * Amps) - (LLC Calibration mOhms * Amps) anymore.
> 
> I checked it directly. It's more like "base vCPU + (ACLL mOhms * 1/2 amps). I am NOT kidding".
> Pretty sure this has something to do with that "1520mv VID (1.520v) + 200mv "Serial offset VID" thing, which the CPU can request under some unknown condition, unless it can request up to 1.720v before vdroop any time it wants (assuming Loadline Calibration mOhms=1.1 mOhms of stock vdroop).
> 
> You can check for yourself. Set DC Loadline to 0.01 mOhms (Or 1 on a Gigabyte Bios) and set AC Loadline to whatever you want, up to 1.1 mOhms (110 on GB), and use FIXED Vcore (so you don't get overvoltage from a high ACLL + low vdroop danger setting). Then notice the CPU VID rise at load and calculate the rise. (also remembering the thermal velocity boost VID rise rate, at for example, x53 ratio = 1.55mv every 1C, and x52 ratio=1.45mv every 1C, and x50 ratio: 0.9mv every 1C, added to the VID).
> 
> So the answer is: no one knows. But these CPU's, at STOCK LLC (1.1 mOhms) and worst case AC Loadline (0.9 mOhms) will try to request 1.50v vcore at FULL LOAD at x52 and x53.


they will find out thru heat before even realizing it.. something is going to give starting from the psu all way up to the cpu..

as @Jpmboy said is good to have vdroop... i did the same on the 8700k where i started at 1.4v but vdroop all way down to 1.32v this give me stability instead of trying to brute force a current vid to be always the same and just generate unwanted heat..

Also, current goes with the instructions sets.. not the same current doing SSE instructions @ 1.4v than 1.0v at AVX512... AVX512 have more current at just 1.0V load is more of a load than the 1.4v sse.

With my 7940x and 7980xe i take a different approach, i use adaptive with a negative offset and let the cpu/mobo decide whats needed "if is possible" then i custom notch it.. already know them both from a to z..

not as easy to just notch a static vcore ie 1.4v+ @ 50x and do a cb20 run and see the *psu sucking 1khw+ from the wall..*
yeah trust me this kiddos will find out the hard way soon with their p95 crap XD



Betroz said:


> The key here is to disable AVX in Prime95 (all of it).


if you want avx use blender thats more realistic than p95 any time of the day.. you would not find any test out there as close as a REAL heavy workload as blender that is not a power virus like P95..

If you want to test your AVX offset use rogbench for quick switching between regular multiplier and avx offsets the switching is fast and as real as it gets..


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> Bro your 5.1 u need to find your vmin.
> The WORST 10900k i ever seen vmin for 5.1 was 1.22.. although theoretical the worst bin should be 1.25


I am greatful for any advice, but I'm not that noob regards to OC 
We'll see if my CPU will scale better with better cooling (I have a Freezer II 360 on it's way).


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> if you want avx use blender thats more realistic than p95 any time of the day.. you would not find any test out there as close as a REAL heavy workload as blender that is not a power virus like P95..
> If you want to test your AVX offset use rogbench for quick switching between regular multiplier and avx offsets the switching is fast and as real as it gets..


Yes, I use Blender and Realbench 2.56 too


----------



## cstkl1

zGunBLADEz said:


> they will find out thru heat before even realizing it.. something is going to give starting from the psu all way up to the cpu..
> 
> as @Jpmboy said is good to have vdroop... i did the same on the 8700k where i started at 1.4v but vdroop all way down to 1.32v this give me stability instead of trying to brute force a current vid to be always the same and just generate unwanted heat..
> 
> Also, current goes with the instructions sets.. not the same current doing SSE instructions @ 1.4v than 1.0v at AVX512... AVX512 have more current at just 1.0V load is more of a load than the 1.4v sse.
> 
> With my 7940x and 7980xe i take a different approach, i use adaptive with a negative offset and let the cpu/mobo decide whats needed "if is possible" then i custom notch it.. already know them both from a to z..
> 
> not as easy to just notch a static vcore ie 1.4v+ @ 50x and do a cb20 run and see the *psu sucking 1khw+ from the wall..*
> yeah trust me this kiddos will find out the hard way soon with their p95 crap XD
> 
> 
> 
> if you want avx use blender thats more realistic than p95 any time of the day.. you would not find any test out there as close as a REAL heavy workload as blender that is not a power virus like P95..
> 
> If you want to test your AVX offset use rogbench for quick switching between regular multiplier and avx offsets the switching is fast and as real as it gets..


really. 
you have no clue what the topic is about. its zoning specific area of testing using fft. no other tool test this way. 
you are making the biggest assumption that whatever u know in hedt applies here . it doesnt. 

kids nowadays. they think they know everything. 

and u dont need avx offset for RB for mainstream cpu. now you know.


----------



## Gen.

cstkl1 said:


> Err no.


Try to use vpn or is it better to publish the post translated via google here?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

cstkl1 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> they will find out thru heat before even realizing it.. something is going to give starting from the psu all way up to the cpu..
> 
> as @Jpmboy said is good to have vdroop... i did the same on the 8700k where i started at 1.4v but vdroop all way down to 1.32v this give me stability instead of trying to brute force a current vid to be always the same and just generate unwanted heat..
> 
> Also, current goes with the instructions sets.. not the same current doing SSE instructions @ 1.4v than 1.0v at AVX512... AVX512 have more current at just 1.0V load is more of a load than the 1.4v sse.
> 
> With my 7940x and 7980xe i take a different approach, i use adaptive with a negative offset and let the cpu/mobo decide whats needed "if is possible" then i custom notch it.. already know them both from a to z..
> 
> not as easy to just notch a static vcore ie 1.4v+ @ 50x and do a cb20 run and see the *psu sucking 1khw+ from the wall..*
> yeah trust me this kiddos will find out the hard way soon with their p95 crap XD
> 
> 
> 
> if you want avx use blender thats more realistic than p95 any time of the day.. you would not find any test out there as close as a REAL heavy workload as blender that is not a power virus like P95..
> 
> If you want to test your AVX offset use rogbench for quick switching between regular multiplier and avx offsets the switching is fast and as real as it gets..
> 
> 
> 
> really.
> you have no clue what the topic is about. its zoning specific area of testing using fft. no other tool test this way.
> you are making the biggest assumption that whatever u know in hedt applies here . it doesnt.
> 
> kids nowadays. they think they know everything.
> 
> and u dont need avx offset for RB for mainstream cpu. now you know.
Click to expand...

Ok sir... looking my nick here couple pages back would resume for you xD


----------



## cstkl1

zGunBLADEz said:


> Ok sir... looking my nick here couple pages back would resume for you xD


errr no. your very statement hence forth was enough.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

cstkl1 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok sir... looking my nick here couple pages back would resume for you xD
> 
> 
> 
> errr no. your very statement hence forth was enough.
Click to expand...

Sure warhever you said *kiddo..*

Keep p95 the crap out of the CPUs xD


----------



## skullbringer

Falkentyne said:


> snippedy





zGunBLADEz said:


> snap





Betroz said:


> Yes, I use Blender and Realbench 2.56 too


Realbench, Blender are no issue. Even Prime95 112 fft, no avx 30 minutes is running without errors.

But in Linpack it's a whole different story, have to go down to 54x

@Falkentyne you were saying about a 245 Amp limit? At 54x in Linpack, I see 660W pulled from the wall. Compare that to 110W idle, that is 550W / 1.4V load voltage = 392 Amps going into the board. 

Granted, there is also VRM, RAM and efficiency losses, but that does not account for 140 Amps, does it??


----------



## cstkl1

zGunBLADEz said:


> Sure warhever you said *kiddo..*
> 
> Keep p95 the crap out of the CPUs xD


sure kid. sillyness breeds ignorance. especially for ppl who dont know how to use a software because they cant. 

yeah so keep doing offsets ya for rb.


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> Realbench, Blender are no issue. Even Prime95 112 fft, no avx 30 minutes is running without errors.
> 
> But in Linpack it's a whole different story, have to go down to 54x
> 
> @Falkentyne you were saying about a 245 Amp limit? At 55x in Linpack, I see 660W pulled from the wall. Compare that to 110W idle, that is 550W / 1.4V load voltage = 392 Amps going into the board.
> 
> Granted, there is also VRM, RAM and efficiency losses, but that does not account for 140 Amps, does it??


dats some sick oc. you hit 252amp


----------



## zGunBLADEz

cstkl1 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure warhever you said *kiddo..*
> 
> Keep p95 the crap out of the CPUs xD
> 
> 
> 
> sure kid. sillyness breeds ignorance. especially for ppl who dont know how to use a software because they cant.
> 
> yeah so keep doing offsets ya for rb.
Click to expand...

It works for me i get some sick performance out of it my 4200Mhz on my x299 says hi xD almost 130gb of bw out of it you barely touching 60 but i dont know nothing


----------



## cstkl1

zGunBLADEz said:


> It works for me i get some sick performance out of it my 4200Mhz on my x299 says hi xD almost 130gb of bw out of it you barely touching 60 but i dont know nothing


Yeah u do know nothing. Sad part u dont know it. 

U remind me of this kid i saw last year when i went scuba diving. So afraid of the water. Sure when u dont know how to swim and use the equipment sure.
He then brags about his hse having a olympic size swimming pool. Saying he knows stuff.

hahahaha. 

the dude used karhu. one of the crappiest ram tester and says
"he knows stuff"

literally no point searching for some other post...

any respect atm is who ever can do 4266 4x8gb on asus z490 mobo consistently. thats numbered to one person atm.. dats a dude who "knows" stuff"


----------



## zGunBLADEz

cstkl1 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It works for me i get some sick performance out of it my 4200Mhz on my x299 says hi xD almost 130gb of bw out of it you barely touching 60 but i dont know nothing
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah u do know nothing. Sad part u dont know it.
> 
> U remind me of this kid i saw last year when i went scuba diving. So afraid of the water. Sure when u dont know how to swim and use the equipment sure.
> He then brags about his hse having a olympic size swimming pool. Saying he knows stuff.
> 
> hahahaha.
> 
> the dude used karhu. one of the crappiest ram tester and says
> "he knows stuff"
> 
> literally no point searching for some other post...
> 
> any respect atm is who ever can do 4266 4x8gb on asus z490 mobo consistently. thats numbered to one person atm.. dats a dude who "knows" stuff"
Click to expand...

Ujum xD i know nothing 😛 if i was you i just keep it to yourself xD

But make sure please you keep p95 the crap of that cpu lol

Actually i use both ramtest and hci, i have both here i have a nice hci run for over a day on hci @ 4200mhz on x299 posted here xD which is my final to go run test.

Also i have a dr kit 32gb kit @ 3900mhz which been posted over what 1 1/2 yrs ago? XD


----------



## Intrud3r

cstkl1 said:


> Yeah u do know nothing. Sad part u dont know it.
> 
> U remind me of this kid i saw last year when i went scuba diving. So afraid of the water. Sure when u dont know how to swim and use the equipment sure.
> He then brags about his hse having a olympic size swimming pool. Saying he knows stuff.
> 
> hahahaha.
> 
> the dude used karhu. one of the crappiest ram tester and says
> "he knows stuff"
> 
> literally no point searching for some other post...
> 
> any respect atm is who ever can do 4266 4x8gb on asus z490 mobo consistently. thats numbered to one person atm.. dats a dude who "knows" stuff"


This last statement .... makes me wonder ... seems I'm not the only one having troubles with anything higher then 4133 with 4x8 on Z490 

4400 17 flat boots into windows fine, any testing errors out rather quickly ... 

(3600 16-16-16 G.skill royal kit)


----------



## cstkl1

zGunBLADEz said:


> Ujum xD i know nothing 😛 if i was you i just keep it to yourself xD
> 
> But make sure please you keep p95 the crap of that cpu lol
> 
> Actually i use both ramtest and hci, i have both here i have a nice hci run for over a day on hci @ 4200mhz on x299 posted here xD which is my final to go run test.
> 
> Also i have a dr kit 32gb kit @ 3900mhz which been posted over what 1 1/2 yrs ago? XD


search longer. 
got a 

7980xe 128gb [email protected]
a [email protected] 32gb [email protected]

as i said before u dont know what you are talking about. 

you dont know why fft112. y he asked for that ss. 

you got triggered by p95 due to some tragic issue. so go on dude.


----------



## cstkl1

Intrud3r said:


> This last statement .... makes me wonder ... seems I'm not the only one having troubles with anything higher then 4133 with 4x8 on Z490
> 
> 4400 17 flat boots into windows fine, any testing errors out rather quickly ...
> 
> (3600 16-16-16 G.skill royal kit)


eh dude u should discuss with @owikh84
he is testing z490 master and z490 formula 4x8gb
4133 much easier on giga. but timings a bit relaxed though on rtl.


----------



## Intrud3r

Running 4133 C17 flat atm (see signature) ... that was easy to achieve .... anything higher tho .... ugh ....


----------



## zGunBLADEz

cstkl1 said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ujum xD i know nothing 😛 if i was you i just keep it to yourself xD
> 
> But make sure please you keep p95 the crap of that cpu lol
> 
> Actually i use both ramtest and hci, i have both here i have a nice hci run for over a day on hci @ 4200mhz on x299 posted here xD which is my final to go run test.
> 
> Also i have a dr kit 32gb kit @ 3900mhz which been posted over what 1 1/2 yrs ago? XD
> 
> 
> 
> search longer.
> got a
> 
> 7980xe 128gb [email protected]
> a [email protected] 32gb [email protected]
> 
> as i said before u dont know what you are talking about.
> 
> you dont know why fft112. y he asked for that ss.
> 
> you got triggered by p95 due to some tragic issue. so go on dude.
Click to expand...

Anything related to p95 its futile.. Im not the one complaining about psus ocp on me so that's that or amp draw. My 7980xe do that kind of amp draw like it aint nothing and im not even doing linpack extreme which would do AVX512 or p95 the crap out of it.. 

So i dont know what to tell you keep in line xD


----------



## ThrashZone

skullbringer said:


> Realbench, Blender are no issue. Even Prime95 112 fft, no avx 30 minutes is running without errors.
> 
> But in Linpack it's a whole different story, have to go down to 54x
> 
> @Falkentyne you were saying about a 245 Amp limit? *At 54x in Linpack, I see 660W pulled from the wall.* Compare that to 110W idle, that is 550W / 1.4V load voltage = 392 Amps going into the board.
> 
> Granted, there is also VRM, RAM and efficiency losses, but that does not account for 140 Amps, does it??


Hi,
Good info there it was said 1000w psu might not be enough which I found hard to believe frankly


----------



## cstkl1

Intrud3r said:


> Running 4133 C17 flat atm (see signature) ... that was easy to achieve .... anything higher tho .... ugh ....


he needed higher vdimm though

i am running higher also at 1.4v. mine does that at 1.37 set..

the asus one i dont consider it stable yet
1. it has issues with different loadline
2. it has issues with cache 48 for cpu 51
3. random 55 errors.
4. out of 10boots only 8 can pass tm5 1cycle. the other 2 insta error. 

the 55 most probably cause i narrowed down the 30algos to essential.. so when it does boot 8 out of 10 times its stable. i always run tm5 one cycle before anything else. 

now doing skews and later odt final. 

giga uses 60,40,40 right. 
asus god knows what since
a) not displayed
b) odtwr options is 0,80,120,240,255
afaik rzq/4 is legit so there should be a 60 but asus doesnt have an option.
was told there be a new bios which shows it and txp , ppd. 

why LL affecting this i dont know. might go back to base bios 0606 that doesnt have the transient response algo enabled cause whatever it is .. its affecting training.

tested txp and ppd in windows doesnt affect stability. question is will it be better in training. 

i am guessing yours a A2 variant as well.

oh yeah i had a decent 10700k that did [email protected] something vmin
that had no issue with 4133 up to 4200 but inconsistent. 10900k seems much more difficult.

btw trfc i am just simply running them @350 to keep x2,x4 at default without a roundup/roundown.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> skullbringer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Realbench, Blender are no issue. Even Prime95 112 fft, no avx 30 minutes is running without errors.
> 
> But in Linpack it's a whole different story, have to go down to 54x
> 
> @Falkentyne you were saying about a 245 Amp limit? *At 54x in Linpack, I see 660W pulled from the wall.* Compare that to 110W idle, that is 550W / 1.4V load voltage = 392 Amps going into the board.
> 
> Granted, there is also VRM, RAM and efficiency losses, but that does not account for 140 Amps, does it??
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> Good info there it was said 1000w psu might not be enough which I found hard to believe frankly /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

Believe it lol. Linpack extreme "avx512" mind you on my 7980xe at 1.1v put my cpu over 500w as heat by itself, and way more watts pull out of the wall and thats only in a "short burst". Now picture the other fella trying that with 1.4v lol then figuring out whats the problem..

:zippyfear:


----------



## ThrashZone

zGunBLADEz said:


> Believe it lol. Linpack extreme "avx512" mind you on my 7980xe at 1.1v put my cpu over 500w as heat by itself, and way more watts pull out of the wall and thats only in a "short burst". Now picture the other fella trying that with 1.4v lol then figuring out whats the problem..
> 
> :zippyfear:


Hi,
Yeah hard to compare 10 & 18 core and why most hedt people say stay away from p95 but memory wise one can only hope bios get better and not worse 

I'll be working on my entertainment center today and next couple to get her done


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ThrashZone said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Believe it lol. Linpack extreme "avx512" mind you on my 7980xe at 1.1v put my cpu over 500w as heat by itself, and way more watts pull out of the wall and thats only in a "short burst". Now picture the other fella trying that with 1.4v lol then figuring out whats the problem..
> 
> :zippyfear:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> Yeah hard to compare 10 & 18 core and why most hedt people say stay away from p95 but memory wise one can only hope bios get better and not worse /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Click to expand...

Im not comparing it tho... im stating the fact about the instructions used and => current amps.. You are not stressing sse instructions here... Then you have the factor of "p95" something .. Its the same uarch everything from intel since skylake is the exact same crap and behaves the same lol..

Try yourself and see it, open hwinfo and do a run on linpack extreme watch the watts and amp then come back here and tell me how it went..


----------



## Thebc2

LOL on the timing bringing up Linpack. It tried it yesterday as well after watching Buildzoid’s Z490 OC video and while it was an ok tool to use for testing stability of your CPU and cache overclocks, it scales way too crazy with a ram OC and ended up pulling a crazy amount of amperage. My i9 running at 5.2/4.9 cache was only pulling 100-170 amps with default ram timings, once I introduced the RAM OC (4133c17) it shot up to over 250 amps!!! For comparison P95 small fft no avx tops out around 200-207 on my overclock.

That being said, I could pass the 4 and even 10GB tests in Linpack, but the 14 was just too much sustained load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ogider

New bios for z490 Unify.
does anyone know these new things that came out?

MR timings and lucky mode option


----------



## CptSpig

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah hard to compare 10 & 18 core and why most hedt people say stay away from p95 but memory wise one can only hope bios get better and not worse
> 
> I'll be working on my entertainment center today and next couple to get her done


My entertainment center and it's finally complete!


----------



## N7+

ogider said:


> New bios for z490 Unify.
> does anyone know these new things that came out?
> 
> MR timings and lucky mode option


Don't know but it doesn't improve overclockability at all. I'm starting to think MSI is shafting everyone other than 10900k owners. 
I have a ton of headroom on the mem controller on my 10700k yet can't get anything above 4266 stable. Meanwhile you can run 4533c17. It makes no sense. 

Completely ridiculous.


----------



## Sedril

ogider said:


> New bios for z490 Unify.
> does anyone know these new things that came out?
> 
> MR timings and lucky mode option



I haven't seen those settings before, but I feel like I need a "Lucky mode" button every time I'm tweaking my RAM OC....!


----------



## ogider

There are several factors to the OC of memory as you well know.
IMC memory, motherboard and CPU
I do not rule out that I have a stronger IMC than the average of 10900k
But in terms of CPU overclocking, I have a very poor unit.
5.1 I will do it somehow, but not above.


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> There are several factors to the OC of memory as you well know.
> IMC memory, motherboard and CPU
> I do not rule out that I have a stronger IMC than the average of 10900k
> But in terms of CPU overclocking, I have a very poor unit.
> 5.1 I will do it somehow, but not above.


5.2 needs 90-140mv above 5.1
And a bump in vcssa/vccio 40-80mv
On high ram oc its particular on iol so i would run them at offset 18-21 and not 24-26


----------



## N7+

ogider said:


> There are several factors to the OC of memory as you well know.
> IMC memory, motherboard and CPU
> I do not rule out that I have a stronger IMC than the average of 10900k
> But in terms of CPU overclocking, I have a very poor unit.
> 5.1 I will do it somehow, but not above.


Doesn't matter what I do. The board doesn't seem to know what to do above 4266. I'm well below 1.3 volts on SA and IO so there's headroom there but it throws errors no matter the voltage. The SA switching frequency seems to help stability but not fully stabilize the OC. 
How did you get your IOLs to 8 for example? Mine defaults to 13-15 and trains them inconsistently at that. If I try to set them my self the board just ignores it.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> 5.2 needs 90-140mv above 5.1


Based on only your chip or in general?
It would seem that 5.2 allcore and above is custom loop territory only then (based on my own testing aswell). Max for people with an AIO is 5.1. One could argue if even 5.1 is worth the extra heat compared to 5.0 for us with an AIO. HT off is another story of course.


----------



## ogider

N7+ said:


> Doesn't matter what I do. The board doesn't seem to know what to do above 4266. I'm well below 1.3 volts on SA and IO so there's headroom there but it throws errors no matter the voltage. The SA switching frequency seems to help stability but not fully stabilize the OC.
> How did you get your IOLs to 8 for example? Mine defaults to 13-15 and trains them inconsistently at that. If I try to set them my self the board just ignores it.


Iol and rtl only by init and compensation working for me


----------



## eeeven

I just found that the new production weeks of the Ripjaws V are very delicious:

4600 16-16-16-32-320 1,60v


4400 16-16-16-28-280 1,52v just for scale. My IMC i hardwalled at 4700 so i cant get deeper into testing more than 4700 MHz Memory Speed. I can Boot up to 5000 MHz with the Ripjaws but its far from stable with high BSOD Risk


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Based on only your chip or in general?
> It would seem that 5.2 allcore and above is custom loop territory only then (based on my own testing aswell). Max for people with an AIO is 5.1. One could argue if even 5.1 is worth the extra heat compared to 5.0 for us with an AIO. HT off is another story of course.


General

Just tell u something just happen few hours ago.
Shop idealtech in malaysia. That rig most probably on their facebook. I went to pickup my monitor. Friend said cant oc above 4.9 on a 10900k
It was a fully decked out Asus themed rig.. case, asus 360 oled, m12e, 64gb 3600, strix 2080ti ..asus monitor, kb/mouse etc .. (but odd using leadex psu instead thor)
They already memtest it @43 cache

Told him fire it up. Was sp 57. V/f [email protected] 
It Running xmp so vccio vcssa all whack. 
I just set L4 all core sync 5.1.. manual voltage 1.46
Prime95 fft80 no avx with hwinfo Amps hit 202, vmin 1.27. Max temp 94c. Tested fft 112 45mins. 
Done. 
Set per core usage 53-2, 52-3, 51-10
They ran rb2.56 1hour done
They ran cb 25 rounds done. 
They are running hci 200% .. this gonna take a whilE
Told them to limit the p0/p1 to max watt they see later before handover

Conclusion . Weather 36c. Shop most probably 27-29c . 
Was tested at the front in the open on their demo rig tables.

No problem 10900k. 

So.. u how?? Since u are a seasoned ocer. Aint a noob. 
Nvr seen a 10900k not able to do 5.1 with aio.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> So.. u how?? Since u are a seasoned ocer. Aint a noob. Nvr seen a 10900k not able to do 5.1 with aio.


I will retest next week when I get the Freezer II 360 AIO. My Kraken X62 was bought in December of 2016, so It's showing it's age. Coolant evaporation from the unit probably, or air bobles that reduse the performance by some degrees I imagine.

That and some people, like me, is just loosing the silicon lottery. I may pick up another 10900K if the new AIO does'nt improve things much.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> I will retest next week when I get the Freezer II 360 AIO. My Kraken X62 was bought in December of 2016, so It's showing it's age. Coolant evaporation from the unit probably, or air bobles that reduse the performance by some degrees I imagine.
> 
> That and some people, like me, is just loosing the silicon lottery. I may pick up another 10900K if the new AIO does'nt improve things much.


I still something off. U can search every where bro 5.1 like trademark for 10900k. Especially on asus maximus mobos that are over build to handle way higher. 

Yeah thats got it be then your aio a goner.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> I still something off. U can search every where bro 5.1 like trademark for 10900k.


I don't subscribe into that "everyone" or "every CPU" can do that. A lot of people are using an open air testbed, and call their OC stable with just a few Cinebench 20 runs too.


----------



## skullbringer

N7+ said:


> Doesn't matter what I do. The board doesn't seem to know what to do above 4266. I'm well below 1.3 volts on SA and IO so there's headroom there but it throws errors no matter the voltage. The SA switching frequency seems to help stability but not fully stabilize the OC.
> How did you get your IOLs to 8 for example? Mine defaults to 13-15 and trains them inconsistently at that. If I try to set them my self the board just ignores it.


make sure "MRC Fast boot" (Asus naming) is disabled, as enabled can skip memory training on reboots and you dont want that when you change settings and then nothing happens.

Also with the Apex I have found you can not set IO-Ls and RTLs directly, but need to tune via "IO Latency offset", starting with auto = 21 and tuning upwards by one until it doesnt boot anymore. 26 was the highest for me. 

Also maybe you have mismatched dimms, like I had with my teamgroup 3600 c14 kit, so you might wanna try your modules one by one in the same slot and test the lowest IO-Ls each module can train.

E.g. when they are mismatched by more than 2 and both modules are installed, memory training can drop the bad module to IO-L 14 or 15, while the other one trains normal at say like 6. This 6-14 mismatch can cause instability and bsods


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> make sure "MRC Fast boot" (Asus naming) is disabled, as enabled can skip memory training on reboots and you dont want that when you change settings and then nothing happens.
> 
> Also with the Apex I have found you can not set IO-Ls and RTLs directly, but need to tune via "IO Latency offset", starting with auto = 21 and tuning upwards by one until it doesnt boot anymore. 26 was the highest for me.
> 
> Also maybe you have mismatched dimms, like I had with my teamgroup 3600 c14 kit, so you might wanna try your modules one by one in the same slot and test the lowest IO-Ls each module can train.
> 
> E.g. when they are mismatched by more than 2 and both modules are installed, memory training can drop the bad module to IO-L 14 or 15, while the other one trains normal at say like 6. This 6-14 mismatch can cause instability and bsods


There is no problem setting IOL and RTL on any Apex boards 

Boot auto first, then set IOL and RTL. Best for 4400mhz + is ~7 and ~67 

This is trained to 14 and 74


----------



## Spin Cykle

Hello everyone. 

I'd really appreciate some help with my dual rank Samsung b-die sticks. This is the kit I am running, F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK. 

My memory kit runs the XMP profile and has some headroom to overclcok on my Asus Maximus Hero XI motherboard, but I've recently moved to an ITX system and I can't get the sticks to run even close to the XMP profile on my Asrock Z390 Phantom Gamin Itx. 

If I test each memory module independently, they boot and pass all windows testing at their XMP profile (DDR4000 CL19). However, when I populate both DIMM Slots on the Asrock board, I can't run the XMP profile. The best I can get is 3600 CL16 or 3200 CL14. Why is this happening? 

I've tried running the DRAM voltage up to 1.5v, VCCSA to 1.35 and the VCCIO to 1.35... nothing works. 

I'm running an 8700k that's been stable at 5.0ghz for a long time now and my voltages for SA 1.30 and IO at 1.25. 

Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas? I was really hoping to run this kit overclocked in my ITX system, but It seems I can't even get the XMP profile to run.


----------



## swddeluxx

ogider said:


> New bios for z490 Unify.
> does anyone know these new things that came out?
> 
> MR timings and lucky mode option



Version Number for this new Bios?


----------



## ThrashZone

CptSpig said:


> My entertainment center and it's finally complete!


Hi,
Man that passed entertainment center by 100 miles lol 
That's a movie theater scale setup there bud :thumb:


----------



## Nizzen

swddeluxx said:


> Version Number for this new Bios?


Is there any new bios for Msi z490 Unify Itx?

Can't find any new on msi.com


----------



## Falkentyne

Betroz said:


> Based on only your chip or in general?
> It would seem that 5.2 allcore and above is custom loop territory only then (based on my own testing aswell). Max for people with an AIO is 5.1. One could argue if even 5.1 is worth the extra heat compared to 5.0 for us with an AIO. HT off is another story of course.


That depends on the chip quality. Not all chips will require yeet voltages for 5.2 ghz.

My ES passes 5.2 ghz easily 112k-112k (this is easier than realbench), and passes realbench 2.56 at 1.234v load if <85C, and 1.252v load if <90C, on an Liquid freezer II 360 with powerful Noctua fans, so no, not custom loop.
Now my retail chip requires 1.340v-1.370v load for Realbench 2.56 at 5.2 ghz (again prime95 112k-112k passes at lower voltage than this) and temps can be between 91C-103C on an Eisbaer Extreme 280 with 3000 RPM Noctua fans. Now that's custom loop territory.

My ES can pass 15k AVX1 prime95 at 5.1 ghz on the LF II 360. It gets hot--real hot, at 1.181v load, up to 95C, but it passes it. It fails FMA3 pretty fast though, but AVX1 is easier. RB 2.56 and 112k are stupidly easy, I think they pass at 1.162v load.

And my 'bad' retail chip can pass Realbench 2.56 at 1.230v load at 5.1 ghz on **AIR COOLING** (NH-D15), as well as 112k FFT, although obviously AVX prime95 is an big no-no as it's uncoolable. So no, an AIO is not required for 5.1 ghz.


----------



## ViTosS

Just discovered that my RAM isn't stable at 48-50C while it was stable at 40-42C in every test (TM5, HCI MemTest, Karhu and 112k FFT Prime95), so I'm wondering what should I loose in terms of timings, atm it is like in the screenshot below, the voltages are: 1.440 vDRAM, 1.175 IO and 1.200 SA.

Things I already tried without success:

Changed to CL17-17-17-37 at the same timings and everything the same (slightly worse RTL/IOL) and bumped vDRAM to 1.45v and also bumped a bit IO/SA to 1.200 and 1.2250, no success at 48C at these settings. Any ideas? I'm testing at these temperatures because it's the ones I reach when gaming...

Obs.: There are some ''automatic'' settings in timings I didn't touch when I changed from CL16 to CL17 because I didn't touch them before also, so they changed a bit staying in AUTO when I changed from CL16 to CL17


----------



## ViTosS

skullbringer said:


> make sure "MRC Fast boot" (Asus naming) is disabled, as enabled can skip memory training on reboots and you dont want that when you change settings and then nothing happens.
> 
> Also with the Apex I have found you can not set IO-Ls and RTLs directly, but need to tune via "IO Latency offset", starting with auto = 21 and tuning upwards by one until it doesnt boot anymore. 26 was the highest for me.
> 
> Also maybe you have mismatched dimms, like I had with my teamgroup 3600 c14 kit, so you might wanna try your modules one by one in the same slot and test the lowest IO-Ls each module can train.
> 
> E.g. when they are mismatched by more than 2 and both modules are installed, memory training can drop the bad module to IO-L 14 or 15, while the other one trains normal at say like 6. This 6-14 mismatch can cause instability and bsods


So when I find the best module IO-L and the worse what should I do? Considering Apex 2 DIMM slots, set both of them to the best or worst? Or change them from slots?

Also when I change RTL/IOL I always keep rebooting and check the lowest settings the board sets (it takes some time, like 5 reboots to rule them all) and then I choose the lowest/best one from them and set manually, is this the right way to do it? Let the board naturally at AUTO and check the lowest/best it achieves and then manually set? I noticed I couldn't set the same RTL/IOL I was using for the same frequency and timings when I changed from [email protected] to [email protected] The board wasn't booting and giving a lot of codes very fast and I had to safe boot to fix again.


----------



## ogider

ViTosS said:


> Things I already tried without success:


Maybe try add fan above ram modules


----------



## Betroz

Falkentyne said:


> ...on an Liquid freezer II 360 with powerful Noctua fans, so no, not custom loop.
> ...on an Eisbaer Extreme 280 with 3000 RPM Noctua fans. Now that's custom loop territory.


Yes, magical things can happen when you brute force 3000 rpm fans on the cooler... 



Falkentyne said:


> And my 'bad' retail chip can pass Realbench 2.56 at 1.230v load at 5.1 ghz on **AIR COOLING** (NH-D15), as well as 112k FFT, although obviously AVX prime95 is an big no-no as it's uncoolable.


Now that is more interesting. Was that inside a closed case? Did you try to game Battlefield 5 multiplayer and check max temps? (GPU then warms up the air inside the case and effects CPU temps more)


----------



## N7+

ogider said:


> Iol and rtl only by init and compensation working for me


On my board I need to set the IO compensator to a lower value but it only gains me tighter RTLs. The IOLs remain untouched. Something's fishy about this.


----------



## skullbringer

ViTosS said:


> So when I find the best module IO-L and the worse what should I do? Considering Apex 2 DIMM slots, set both of them to the best or worst? Or change them from slots?
> 
> Also when I change RTL/IOL I always keep rebooting and check the lowest settings the board sets (it takes some time, like 5 reboots to rule them all) and then I choose the lowest/best one from them and set manually, is this the right way to do it? Let the board naturally at AUTO and check the lowest/best it achieves and then manually set? I noticed I couldn't set the same RTL/IOL I was using for the same frequency and timings when I changed from [email protected] to [email protected] The board wasn't booting and giving a lot of codes very fast and I had to safe boot to fix again.


you'd want the better module in the slot further away from the cpu and vice versa, so the lanency differences cancel each other out. 

I've seen very inconsistent with auto training, instead I set io latency offset for both channels to 21 (equal to auto) and then increase it one by one. at the highest for both channels that still boots, they should always train the tightest iols every boot, no more variance between boots. if one channel is still 14, training failed, press retry. if you have trained lowest iol for both channels, then you can re-enable mrc fast boot.

that is the only way I have gotten iols tighter than 14, which is dog**** performance. iols in the range of 2-6 should be doable on bdie 4000+

e.g. I'm running io latency offset for both channels of 26, which gives me 63-2 cha and 64-2 cha b RTL-iol pairs.

latency init values change with timings, so you should always set your timings first with auto RTL iol settings and only tune them at the very end.

also I have never seen staticly set iols and rtls boot, always only with io latency offset, but I'm also kind of a newb at this, so please add grain of salt


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> There is no problem setting IOL and RTL on any Apex boards /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> Boot auto first, then set IOL and RTL. Best for 4400mhz + is ~7 and ~67 /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> This is trained to 14 and 74


maybe your board is different then, but directly setting them does not work for me, only results in 55, tested multiple b die kits, 0704 bios 

iol 14 = training failed, fallback

also with offset of 26, I can run 63-2 and 64-2 at 4700 stable, so dunno


----------



## SuperMumrik

Post your auto rtl and iol values please


----------



## Falkentyne

Betroz said:


> Yes, magical things can happen when you brute force 3000 rpm fans on the cooler...
> 
> 
> 
> Now that is more interesting. Was that inside a closed case? Did you try to game Battlefield 5 multiplayer and check max temps? (GPU then warms up the air inside the case and effects CPU temps more)


I have a blower reference card so the case doesn't heat up much from the video card.
I haven't played Battlefield 5 since changing the original Arctic fans for Noctuas.
I can check later.


----------



## ViTosS

ogider said:


> Maybe try add fan above ram modules


Like I said I can have them lower than 45 while gaming if I put my top fan at 75%, and with the same fan at 75% while stressing (without gaming) it gets to 39-41C maximum, but I want to use the fan at like 50-60% and even on a hot day while gaming, even if the RAM modules temp reaches 48-50C I would still be stable IF I'm stable in stress tests at that same temperature target. Gaming usually heats RAM modules like 5-6C more than just stress testing (at least for me with stock air GPU cooler (no WC etc)).



skullbringer said:


> you'd want the better module in the slot further away from the cpu and vice versa, so the lanency differences cancel each other out.
> 
> I've seen very inconsistent with auto training, instead I set io latency offset for both channels to 21 (equal to auto) and then increase it one by one. at the highest for both channels that still boots, they should always train the tightest iols every boot, no more variance between boots. if one channel is still 14, training failed, press retry. if you have trained lowest iol for both channels, then you can re-enable mrc fast boot.
> 
> that is the only way I have gotten iols tighter than 14, which is dog**** performance. iols in the range of 2-6 should be doable on bdie 4000+
> 
> e.g. I'm running io latency offset for both channels of 26, which gives me 63-2 cha and 64-2 cha b RTL-iol pairs.
> 
> latency init values change with timings, so you should always set your timings first with auto RTL iol settings and only tune them at the very end.
> 
> also I have never seen staticly set iols and rtls boot, always only with io latency offset, but I'm also kind of a newb at this, so please add grain of salt


Hmm I'm not sure if I comprehend you, increasing IOL from auto (which seems 21 always) wouldn't be bad? I mean, more latency the higher the number? And if the board train always 21 auto, wouldn't be better to try to reduce from auto instead of increasing it? I noticed if I don't manually set my RTL/IOL they keep chaning every reboot, from the best achievable (the one I usually runs manually) to the worst, and that can be like almost 2ns latency difference just by that randonly change. My latency init values changes everytime, every boot/reboot, no matter the timings I set, only way to have them static is setting manually or disable MRC Fast Boot and then it will stay forever to the last auto set (which can be good or bad). I always did my OC without changing the RTL/IOL, I just ajust them to the lowest one they can achieve being set at auto, and to do that I have to reboot plenty of times and keep checking in BIOS or Windows the lowest the board got me on auto, and then I just go and enter them manually, is setting like that wrong or not?


----------



## reflex75

ViTosS said:


> Just discovered that my RAM isn't stable at 48-50C while it was stable at 40-42C in every test (TM5, HCI MemTest, Karhu and 112k FFT Prime95), so I'm wondering what should I loose in terms of timings, atm it is like in the screenshot below, the voltages are: 1.440 vDRAM, 1.175 IO and 1.200 SA.
> 
> Things I already tried without success:
> 
> Changed to CL17-17-17-37 at the same timings and everything the same (slightly worse RTL/IOL) and bumped vDRAM to 1.45v and also bumped a bit IO/SA to 1.200 and 1.2250, no success at 48C at these settings. Any ideas? I'm testing at these temperatures because it's the ones I reach when gaming...
> 
> Obs.: There are some ''automatic'' settings in timings I didn't touch when I changed from CL16 to CL17 because I didn't touch them before also, so they changed a bit staying in AUTO when I changed from CL16 to CL17


What you are doing is very important, because this thread name is "Memory Stability", and RAM stability=temperature stability

I quote myself:



reflex75 said:


> You can be 500 hours stable at any RAM stress test, but fail in just few minutes in game if your RAM temperature increases, let's say because of your GPU.
> Temperature is a key factor to monitor for RAM stability more than any other component.
> Always keep safety room.
> My RAM OC is stable until 62 degrees by the sensor on the PCB, which means the memory IC chips are much higher (85 degrees for JEDEC)
> Be cautious with RAM OC, it can kill your OS and silently corrupt your files...





reflex75 said:


> Increasing RAM voltage can help to stabilise the signal degradation caused by higher temperature to a certain degree.
> But it depends on the RAM type, size and silicon lottery...





reflex75 said:


> People are confusing RAM OC with CPU OC.
> The key point for RAM stability is temperature, more than any other component.
> Jedec says for DDR4: 0°C ~ 85°C
> But RAM vendors are pushing their last kits so fast that even stock XMP can throw errors starting from 50°c!
> If you are interested in my feedback of the last G.Skill 4000 CL15, you can read my long review on their official forum:
> https://www.gskill.us/forum/forum/g...-discussion-aa/164555-max-temperature-for-xmp
> 
> The rule is: the faster you want to push your RAM (frequency and/or timings), the cooler you have to keep them.
> So don't loose your time doing long stress tests, because duration doesn't matter. Just increase your RAM temperature (lower case fans, active GPU hot air...) to find the limit when they start to throw first errors.
> The process is first to choose your suitable max safe temperature, because silent RAM corruption can kill your OS and destroy your files (worse than CPU OC crash).
> It depends on your case air flow, if you have an active fan on RAM, if you have a big air GPU, your ambiant temperature, your PC usage (just benching or 24/7 daily usage with gaming...)
> For instance, in my case, during heavy gaming, my RAM temp can increases to the worst value of 55°. I choose to add 5°c as safety room. So my max safe temperature is 60°, and I have found my best setting (frequency/timings) which remains stable until 60°c.
> It means that if you want to really compare 2 kits which can run at the same speed/timings, the better one is the one that can keep its signal stability at higher temperature...





reflex75 said:


> tRFC value is not awful, it's the official time duration from JEDEC to recharge memory cells during 350ns (tRFC) every 7.8us (tREFI)
> You have to convert this duration of 350ns to your frequency.
> You can check the last line of the matrix provided below.
> Shorter recharging time is OC, and Bdie have a lot of room to reduce it (around 200)
> Reminder: RAM stability depends on temperature, and JEDEC mentions stability until 85c for internal memory chips.
> Choose your target maximum temperature depending on your use case (bench, game...) and work your OC to stay safe below.
> But remember, DIMMS temperatures provided in monitoring tools are from the PCB, which is colder than its internal memory chips attached to it.


My suggestion to improve your temperature stability is to test with default values for 4000Mhz which are tRFC=700 (cells electric recharging duration) and tREFI=15600 (time interval between each recharge)
It helps to keep signal integrity degradded by higher temps.
It a good start, but it will probably not be enough to reach 48°c stability in your case if your frequency/timings are too ambitious for your memory quality/bining...


----------



## Betroz

reflex75 said:


> snipp


With memory kits like the Patriot Viper Steel 4400 C19, which don't have any temp sensor on them, is memory errors the only thing we have to tell if the OC is stable then? Even with a 140mm fan above them, like I have, is ~1.6v still safe in your opinion? My Viper sticks is running at 4400 16-17-17-34 tweaked @ 1.59v, so I bet they are running hot under load even with the 140mm fan...


----------



## skullbringer

ViTosS said:


> Hmm I'm not sure if I comprehend you, increasing IOL from auto (which seems 21 always) wouldn't be bad? I mean, more latency the higher the number? And if the board train always 21 auto, wouldn't be better to try to reduce from auto instead of increasing it? I noticed if I don't manually set my RTL/IOL they keep chaning every reboot, from the best achievable (the one I usually runs manually) to the worst, and that can be like almost 2ns latency difference just by that randonly change. My latency init values changes everytime, every boot/reboot, no matter the timings I set, only way to have them static is setting manually or disable MRC Fast Boot and then it will stay forever to the last auto set (which can be good or bad). I always did my OC without changing the RTL/IOL, I just ajust them to the lowest one they can achieve being set at auto, and to do that I have to reboot plenty of times and keep checking in BIOS or Windows the lowest the board got me on auto, and then I just go and enter them manually, is setting like that wrong or not?


if you can set iol and RTL manually and the system posts, great!

for me it did not post with directly set values. 

again, I had to use offset, which is an offset from the init value, either negative or positive, depends on implementation and can also change with memory clock. so higher offset can also mean lower iols. 

but I think either way, when you set any offset, the init value does not change anymore from boot to boot, but is actually some static value, so you have a predictable constant to go from. 

you can just try going from 21 -1 or +1 and see what happens

in the end its just important you have lowest iols and rtls as possible, every boot, does not matter if you get there with offset or static direct setting.


----------



## Spin Cykle

Spin Cykle said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'd really appreciate some help with my dual rank Samsung b-die sticks. This is the kit I am running, F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK.
> 
> My memory kit runs the XMP profile and has some headroom to overclcok on my Asus Maximus Hero XI motherboard, but I've recently moved to an ITX system and I can't get the sticks to run even close to the XMP profile on my Asrock Z390 Phantom Gamin Itx.
> 
> If I test each memory module independently, they boot and pass all windows testing at their XMP profile (DDR4000 CL19). However, when I populate both DIMM Slots on the Asrock board, I can't run the XMP profile. The best I can get is 3600 CL16 or 3200 CL14. Why is this happening?
> 
> I've tried running the DRAM voltage up to 1.5v, VCCSA to 1.35 and the VCCIO to 1.35... nothing works.
> 
> I'm running an 8700k that's been stable at 5.0ghz for a long time now and my voltages for SA 1.30 and IO at 1.25.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas? I was really hoping to run this kit overclocked in my ITX system, but It seems I can't even get the XMP profile to run.



Any thoughts on this? Could it just be that this combo of MB, Intel memory controller and dual rank b-dies don't play nice?


----------



## ViTosS

skullbringer said:


> if you can set iol and RTL manually and the system posts, great!
> 
> for me it did not post with directly set values.
> 
> again, I had to use offset, which is an offset from the init value, either negative or positive, depends on implementation and can also change with memory clock. so higher offset can also mean lower iols.
> 
> but I think either way, when you set any offset, the init value does not change anymore from boot to boot, but is actually some static value, so you have a predictable constant to go from.
> 
> you can just try going from 21 -1 or +1 and see what happens
> 
> in the end its just important you have lowest iols and rtls as possible, every boot, does not matter if you get there with offset or static direct setting.


I see, ty for the explanation, but RTL/IOL only and exclusive way to know if they are stable is when the system doesn't boot? So if it boots and I get errors in my OC is not related to that?


----------



## ViTosS

reflex75 said:


> What you are doing is very important, because this thread name is "Memory Stability", and RAM stability=temperature stability
> 
> I quote myself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My suggestion to improve your temperature stability is to test with default values for 4000Mhz which are tRFC=700 (cells electric recharging duration) and tREFI=15600 (time interval between each recharge)
> It helps to keep signal integrity degradded by higher temps.
> It a good start, but it will probably not be enough to reach 48°c stability in your case if your frequency/timings are too ambitious for your memory quality/bining...


I see, thanks, it will be frustrating if I had to drop that low tRFC and tREFI to have stability at 48C, I may try stability at 45C instead and ramp the fan a lot and deal with the noise :/

But yeah my IMC or RAM kit is totally garbage, if you see I'm struggling with an Apex XI Z390 and a BDie kit, I even ordered another kit (this one [email protected]) but since I'm from another country and COVID19 it will take a lot to arrive here , I just hope my bet is right that the problem is my RAM kit lottery and not crap IMC... So sad to have just [email protected] stable at this point...


----------



## Gregix

Betroz said:


> With memory kits like the Patriot Viper Steel 4400 C19, which don't have any temp sensor on them, is memory errors the only thing we have to tell if the OC is stable then? Even with a 140mm fan above them, like I have, is ~1.6v still safe in your opinion? My Viper sticks is running at 4400 16-17-17-34 tweaked @ 1.59v, so I bet they are running hot under load even with the 140mm fan...


Dunno about ur set, but mine 4100 15 15 15 [email protected],536 runs for hrs no problem, gaming or not. And have 140mm fan pointed at them, which increases speed while load(MB temp dependent) so similar environment. Can do full Ollie TM5. Play 2-4hrs non stop.
They error with ~1,52V and below, so temp is not a problem in my case.


----------



## N7+

ogider said:


> Iol and rtl only by init and compensation working for me


Thanks for these values. I messed around a bit and the IOLs are much lower. I'll test more in the coming days.


----------



## ViTosS

Gregix said:


> Dunno about ur set, but mine 4100 15 15 15 [email protected],536 runs for hrs no problem, gaming or not. And have 140mm fan pointed at them, which increases speed while load(MB temp dependent) so similar environment. Can do full Ollie TM5. Play 2-4hrs non stop.
> They error with ~1,52V and below, so temp is not a problem in my case.


Your gaming temp maybe is higher like mine, 5C~ compared to stress testing (if you have an air cooler GPU custom), to make sure you should stress with the fan very low RPM or maybe without it, but you can't know the temps either way, the only scenario is putting fan 0 RPM and stress test and possible on the hottest ambient temp day you find to make sure while gaming it won't generate errors, I mean, I can game at 48C all day, but the same 48C generate errors in TM5/Karhu, maybe I was gaming with errors not enough to BSOD or crash or I didn't even hit the stress enough gaming to crash at 48C, but I don't like to live like that I want to make sure it's 100% stable stress tests at 48C.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Z490 runs 1T much easier than Z390, even on Gigabyte MB it is possible to run 4*8GB 4133 C15 1T.
> 
> M12A doesn't like high freq b-die (4800+), but Micron 16Gbit E and DJR all work fine...


Thought I'd bring this discussion back to the memory thread 

So I swapped the Viper Steel 4400cl19s out and put the G.Skill TridentZs 4400cl19s back in. Both 2x8GB

The Steels were comfortable and error free at 4400-17-17-17-37-2T 1.64VDRAM 1.25v/1.35v io/sa but needed crazy VDRAM to go higher on the M11Gene/9900ks but not error free

The G.Skills weren't even completely stable at 4400-17-17-17-37-2T on that platform probably due to the board or CPU not being able to control them

The steels on the new M12A try their best to perform but don't have the stamina to last error free for more than a couple of minutes with any settings, despite their best efforts 
Something in the ram is letting them down

The G.Skills which I had all but given up on with the M11Gene are showing promise with the more strict control of the M12A, with an almost error free 4600-17-17-17-37-1T 1.55VDRAM 1.35v vccio and vccsa


----------



## skullbringer

ViTosS said:


> skullbringer said:
> 
> 
> 
> if you can set iol and RTL manually and the system posts, great!
> 
> for me it did not post with directly set values.
> 
> again, I had to use offset, which is an offset from the init value, either negative or positive, depends on implementation and can also change with memory clock. so higher offset can also mean lower iols.
> 
> but I think either way, when you set any offset, the init value does not change anymore from boot to boot, but is actually some static value, so you have a predictable constant to go from.
> 
> you can just try going from 21 -1 or +1 and see what happens
> 
> in the end its just important you have lowest iols and rtls as possible, every boot, does not matter if you get there with offset or static direct setting.
> 
> 
> 
> I see, ty for the explanation, but RTL/IOL only and exclusive way to know if they are stable is when the system doesn't boot? So if it boots and I get errors in my OC is not related to that?
Click to expand...

if you get errors in os that is very likely not caused by iol/RTL, but your memory oc, so timings, voltage clock etc.

only if your memory oc is stable, should you start messing with iol/rtl


I have seen one time were iol training was causing instability, but that was because the modules were mismatched, so very unlikely


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Thought I'd bring this discussion back to the memory thread
> 
> So I swapped the Viper Steel 4400cl19s out and put the G.Skill TridentZs 4400cl19s back in. Both 2x8GB
> 
> The Steels were comfortable and error free at 4400-17-17-17-37-2T 1.64VDRAM 1.25v/1.35v io/sa but needed crazy VDRAM to go higher on the M11Gene/9900ks but not error free
> 
> The G.Skills weren't even completely stable at 4400-17-17-17-37-2T on that platform probably due to the board or CPU not being able to control them
> 
> The steels on the new M12A try their best to perform but don't have the stamina to last error free for more than a couple of minutes with any settings, despite their best efforts
> Something in the ram is letting them down
> 
> The G.Skills which I had all but given up on with the M11Gene are showing promise with the more strict control of the M12A, with an almost error free 4600-17-17-17-37-1T 1.55VDRAM 1.35v vccio and vccsa


All my GSkill bdie sticks perform much worse on M12A under 2T, even the 4800C18D cant do well at 4800 17-17-35...maybe due to the 8086K I previously used


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Is it possible to get [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] with super tight subs memtest stable on z390 4x8gb patriot dimms(on ambient)?


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> All my GSkill bdie sticks perform much worse on M12A under 2T, even the 4800C18D cant do well at 4800 17-17-35...maybe due to the 8086K I previously used


It IS due to the 8086k 

Carillo had an epic 8086 that did boot 5200c17 in to windows. He used his best Viper 4400 kit. IMC on 8086 on average was better than the current 10900k. Good result for 10900k is 4700c17 1t/4800c17 2t.

Here is some pretty good bios configs, if you want to try :


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Is it possible to get [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] with super tight subs memtest stable on z390 4x8gb patriot dimms(on ambient)?


Most likely you need watercooling on the dimms, because you need to go beyond 1.55v


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Most likely you need watercooling on the dimms, because you need to go beyond 1.55v


Hmm I have set 1.58 VDIMM for my 4400C16 config, and only have a 140mm fan above them... Should I be worried?


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> Hmm I have set 1.58 VDIMM for my 4400C16 config, and only have a 140mm fan above them... Should I be worried?


 No, if it's stable, it's good enough.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> No, if it's stable, it's good enough.


It is, but It may be borderline. Maybe because I "only" run them at 4400. At 4700 with 1.58v, that may be another story. I have tried, as you know, and it's not stable for me over 4400. Could be heat, or bad IMC.


----------



## munternet

Nizzen said:


> Most likely you need watercooling on the dimms, because you need to go beyond 1.55v


Just played a couple of hours of BFV water cooled ram 1.55 VDRAM 1.35v io 1.4v sa


----------



## SuperMumrik

Betroz said:


> Nizzen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most likely you need watercooling on the dimms, because you need to go beyond 1.55v /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm I have set 1.58 VDIMM for my 4400C16 config, and only have a 140mm fan above them... Should I be worried?
Click to expand...




Betroz said:


> Nizzen said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, if it's stable, it's good enough.
> 
> 
> 
> It is, but It may be borderline. Maybe because I "only" run them at 4400. At 4700 with 1.58v, that may be another story. I have tried, as you know, and it's not stable for me over 4400. Could be heat, or bad IMC.
Click to expand...

It is IC dependent. I can run mine at 1,6vdimm range without wc, but I had an identical kit that couldn't go past 1,5v without errors. As long as you are stable it's nothing to worry about


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Spin Cykle said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'd really appreciate some help with my dual rank Samsung b-die sticks. This is the kit I am running, F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK.
> 
> My memory kit runs the XMP profile and has some headroom to overclcok on my Asus Maximus Hero XI motherboard, but I've recently moved to an ITX system and I can't get the sticks to run even close to the XMP profile on my Asrock Z390 Phantom Gamin Itx.
> 
> If I test each memory module independently, they boot and pass all windows testing at their XMP profile (DDR4000 CL19). However, when I populate both DIMM Slots on the Asrock board, I can't run the XMP profile. The best I can get is 3600 CL16 or 3200 CL14. Why is this happening?
> 
> I've tried running the DRAM voltage up to 1.5v, VCCSA to 1.35 and the VCCIO to 1.35... nothing works.
> 
> I'm running an 8700k that's been stable at 5.0ghz for a long time now and my voltages for SA 1.30 and IO at 1.25.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas? I was really hoping to run this kit overclocked in my ITX system, but It seems I can't even get the XMP profile to run.


Overclocking 16GB sticks and DR its not for the faint of heart and not so easy. I manage to do 3900 with very good timings on a gskill kit rated for 3600 cl17/19s on a 8700k i manage to even boot 4133 on those and everything. But i didnt bother too much on that matter... They were great under 3500MHz and very tight timings on ryzen copy / paste to intel side no problems as well..

It was a pita to find good settings that worked. Now im trying the same but in quad channel with a 64gb kit from team xtreem that is rated for 3733 cl17/19s b dies and they passed ramtest at stock no problems..

But, been fighting with them for days all way up to 1.55v....
Loose timings like 17/17s @ 3733 i just want to lower the timings as im no planning to go above the 3733 mark... im using the ram for cache together with pciex 16x 4nvme in raid 0 as one on the L cache on primocache... So yesterday i let it crunch it crashed on the 1000% mark on ramtest but passed tm5 extreme anta777 profile... So im scratching my head why is not running anything i dial other than stock..

Long story short it looks like she dont like extra voltage at all... I dial back up 1.35v with vdroop ends at 1.34v and tight to [email protected] 16/17/[email protected] trfc and shes still crunching that like it aint crap on ramtest..
So lets see what it ends with..

I dont want to waste too much time before throwing 64gb into my final test which is HCI. If it dont pass hci i aint happy with it.

My 7980xe + mobo (evga micro2) combo can do 4200MHz on 4x8gb for 32gb on quad channel like it aint crap.. so its not the cpu or the mobo. 16gb sticks dr are just pita to overclock xD


----------



## Gregix

munternet said:


> Thought I'd bring this discussion back to the memory thread
> 
> So I swapped the Viper Steel 4400cl19s out and put the G.Skill TridentZs 4400cl19s back in. Both 2x8GB


Dat 0 walues there and here, like D1 or tWRDXX_xx area are for real?
I mean, do u put this by hand or it is trained somewhow?


----------



## Larkonian

D0 = First dimm slot
D1 = Second dimm slot

If you are only running one dimm per channel the setting for the other dimm is irrelevant.

_dr = dual rank
_dd = dual dimm

If you are running single dimm and single rank memory these settings are irrelevant.

Some people set them to 0 so it is easier to ignore them in the BIOS.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> It IS due to the 8086k
> 
> Carillo had an epic 8086 that did boot 5200c17 in to windows. He used his best Viper 4400 kit. IMC on 8086 on average was better than the current 10900k. Good result for 10900k is 4700c17 1t/4800c17 2t.
> 
> Here is some pretty good bios configs, if you want to try :


Im trying 4700C17 1T right now. 4600c17 1t ez.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> It is, but It may be borderline. Maybe because I "only" run them at 4400. At 4700 with 1.58v, that may be another story. I have tried, as you know, and it's not stable for me over 4400. Could be heat, or bad IMC.


This is 2-way. Signal degrades when the temp is high. If the original dram signal is strong enough, it may also remain strong for the IMC to catch the signal. On the other hand, strong IMC can catch very weak signals. Sometimes in order to pass 4800C17 you need to keep the ram temp below 48c.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> Most likely you need watercooling on the dimms, because you need to go beyond 1.55v



Hmmmmm. I will try two 4400 patriot kits and see if they can compete on the same level as GSKILL. My 4x8GB cl17 4000 gskill sticks don't need watercooling as long as ambient is around 70F-78F and they are at 1.6v in bios(1.6v-1.62v in hwinfo) clocked at 4266 15-15-15-32-2T.


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Im trying 4700C17 1T right now. 4600c17 1t ez.


Nice! Pleace post Aida 64 mem bench


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

munternet said:


> Just played a couple of hours of BFV water cooled ram 1.55 VDRAM 1.35v io 1.4v sa


Hi! Oh cool, do you use water cooling for memory? Patriot did you use water-cooled?


----------



## ObsidianSage

Hello! First time overclocking RAM and looking for some guidance (hope it's allowed in this thread)

I recently purchase a kit of Crucial 2x16GB Micron Rev. E (BLS2K16G4D30AESC) and so far have been able to get it 14-19-19-36 @ DDR4-3600 w/ 1.47V, 1.25V VCCSIO/VCCSA. I haven't tried yet to lower these voltages. I am however noticing that I cannot lower tRCD/TRP under 19 without running into stability issues. Is this typical for Rev. E kits?

I've also had issues going the other direction by increasing bandwith/loosening timings. This kit will not go past DDR4-3733 without incredibly loose timings and I was wondering if this is also typical?

I've so far only messed with my primary timings, but if anyone has any input on where to go from here, I'd really appreciate it!


----------



## SoldierRBT

4700MHZ CL18-19-19-39 1.56v 1.30v IO 1.35v SA


----------



## munternet

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Hi! Oh cool, do you use water cooling for memory? Patriot did you use water-cooled?


Yes, I made a hinge system so I can swap the sticks out quickly


----------



## munternet

Gregix said:


> Dat 0 walues there and here, like D1 or tWRDXX_xx area are for real?
> I mean, do u put this by hand or it is trained somewhow?


I put them in by hand because those values are not used and I get confused easy 
Some say you should use an actual number above 0


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> That depends on the chip quality. Not all chips will require yeet voltages for 5.2 ghz.
> 
> My ES passes 5.2 ghz easily 112k-112k (this is easier than realbench), and passes realbench 2.56 at 1.234v load if <85C, and 1.252v load if <90C, on an Liquid freezer II 360 with powerful Noctua fans, so no, not custom loop.
> Now my retail chip requires 1.340v-1.370v load for Realbench 2.56 at 5.2 ghz (again prime95 112k-112k passes at lower voltage than this) and temps can be between 91C-103C on an Eisbaer Extreme 280 with 3000 RPM Noctua fans. Now that's custom loop territory.
> 
> My ES can pass 15k AVX1 prime95 at 5.1 ghz on the LF II 360. It gets hot--real hot, at 1.181v load, up to 95C, but it passes it. It fails FMA3 pretty fast though, but AVX1 is easier. RB 2.56 and 112k are stupidly easy, I think they pass at 1.162v load.
> 
> And my 'bad' retail chip can pass Realbench 2.56 at 1.230v load at 5.1 ghz on **AIR COOLING** (NH-D15), as well as 112k FFT, although obviously AVX prime95 is an big no-no as it's uncoolable. So no, an AIO is not required for 5.1 ghz.


fft 15???
????..
"No FFT lengths available in the range specified"

edit.. oo its only in avx.. interesting..

just ran both avx 
5.1|[email protected] adaptive 1.275v (vid 1.273v)
4133 17-17-17-37 2N 1.4v
vccio/[email protected]

vmin same 1.18105

avx disabled max amp 187 FFT80
avx 1 max amp 245 FFT15
FULL avx 254 FFT15

eh so i was actually avx stable.. got to go linpack extreme.

FFT 112 is worth it only on oced ram.


----------



## munternet

I believe this is the memory channel 

I'm starting to think I need better sticks. On the G.Skills now 2*8GB 4400c19
4800-17-17-17-37-2T I get a few more errors than I did 4600-17-17-17-37-1T or 2T
With the same settings/voltages I boot into Windows fine, I'm running 4800cl17 now although it errors under stress


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> I believe this is the memory channel
> 
> I'm starting to think I need better sticks. On the G.Skills now 2*8GB 4400c19
> 4800-17-17-17-37-2T I get a few more errors than I did 4600-17-17-17-37-1T or 2T
> With the same settings/voltages I boot into Windows fine, I'm running 4800cl17 now although it errors under stress


check safedisk hci 4800 on his fb to get some timing guides..


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> fft 15???
> ????..
> "No FFT lengths available in the range specified"
> 
> edit.. oo its only in avx.. interesting..
> 
> just ran both avx
> @[email protected] adaptive 1.275v (vid 1.273v) [email protected] vccio/[email protected]
> 
> vmin same 1.18105
> 
> avx disabled max amp 187 FFT80
> avx 1 max amp 245 FFT15
> FULL avx 254 FFT15
> 
> eh so i was actually avx stable.. got to go linpack extreme.


Wait what?
Your 5.1 ghz @ 1.275v Bios set, + LLC 6 was 1.181v load in AVX1 prime95 15k-15k? :/
What is your "CPU Current"? 245 amps?? Why is your vdroop so different?

If I do that, mine's 1.146v at those exact settings=very fast BSOD  Vcore too low...

I have to do 5.1 @ 1.315v Bios set + LLC6 = 1.181v load. CPU Current=245-250A.
We have the exact same board right? Maximus 12 extreme?

Because:

1275mv - (0.495 mOhm loadline * 245 amps) = 1153mv=1.153v

1315mv - (0.495 mOhm loadline * 245 amps) = 1193mv =1.193v-1.181v reported.


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Wait what?
> Your 5.1 ghz @ 1.275v Bios set, + LLC 6 was 1.181v load in AVX1 prime95 15k-15k? :/
> What is your "CPU Current"? 245 amps?? Why is your vdroop so different?
> 
> If I do that, mine's 1.146v at those exact settings=very fast BSOD  Vcore too low...
> 
> I have to do 5.1 @ 1.315v Bios set + LLC6 = 1.181v load. CPU Current=245-250A.
> We have the exact same board right? Maximus 12 extreme?
> 
> Because:
> 
> 1275mv - (0.495 mOhm loadline * 245 amps) = 1153mv=1.153v
> 
> 1315mv - (0.495 mOhm loadline * 245 amps) = 1193mv =1.193v-1.181v reported.


adaptive. additional 1.275


----------



## ViTosS

After not being able to keep my OC at 48C, I decided to ramp the RAM fan to 75% while gaming, this way it won't exceed 40-45C and no longer unstable (but also left running overnight a couple of tests at 45-46C to check, the instability seems to come when it reaches 49C. So as long as I keep it lower then 47C seems to be doing fine


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> After not being able to keep my OC at 48C, I decided to ramp the RAM fan to 75% while gaming, this way it won't exceed 40-45C and no longer unstable (but also left running overnight a couple of tests at 45-46C to check, the instability seems to come when it reaches 49C. So as long as I keep it lower then 47C seems to be doing fine


afaik its not temps atleast on asus. its skews

the rising and falling
some needs close.. some need larger gap

zero out all the dd/dr so u have less things to worry about.


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> afaik its not temps atleast on asus. its skews
> 
> the rising and falling
> some needs close.. some need larger gap
> 
> zero out all the dd/dr so u have less things to worry about.


I checked that Skew section in BIOS, but I don't understand nothing there and what to change, it's everything auto obviously, I'm kinda new to RAM OC 

But I will zero dd/dr, my timings other than primary, tRFC, tREFI and tWR were set based on help from people in the Overclocking Discord where there are some people who posts here from there


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> I checked that Skew section in BIOS, but I don't understand nothing there and what to change, it's everything auto obviously, I'm kinda new to RAM OC
> 
> But I will zero dd/dr, my timings other than primary, tRFC, tREFI and tWR were set based on help from people in the Overclocking Discord where there are some people who posts here from there


bdie u can put down everything i mean everything to lowest.. except maybe TWR related which depends on ram speed/multiplier

as long the ram trains consistently. thats where skews come in. 

if not you are at the mercy of training

i use fft112, tm5 
tm5 very good on vdimm and vcssa
hci very good on all the timings and twr
fft112 very particular on trdwr

for consistency test i use tm5.. as its short, intense and repeats more. 

fft112 is also with ram/cache/cpu. 
seems like adaptive doesnt like excess cache.

cons of skews is.. once set its literally to dat ram clock and even that cache only at those voltages. 

so if u overvolt.. its not advisable to tweak skews
if you are planning higher clocks.. not advisable to tweak skews


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Nice! Pleace post Aida 64 mem bench


Just a unstable bench...After tXP=4 and PPD=0, the latency is 33.7ns

Intel MLC is also a good tool for checking latency


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> bdie u can put down everything i mean everything to lowest.. except maybe TWR related which depends on ram speed/multiplier
> 
> as long the ram trains consistently. thats where skews come in.
> 
> if not you are at the mercy of training
> 
> i use fft112, tm5
> tm5 very good on vdimm and vcssa
> hci very good on all the timings and twr
> fft112 very particular on trdwr
> 
> for consistency test i use tm5.. as its short, intense and repeats more.
> 
> fft112 is also with ram/cache/cpu.
> seems like adaptive doesnt like excess cache.
> 
> cons of skews is.. once set its literally to dat ram clock and even that cache only at those voltages.
> 
> so if u overvolt.. its not advisable to tweak skews
> if you are planning higher clocks.. not advisable to tweak skews


By training you mean booting normally consistently? At that RTL/IOL manually set to the lowest my board gets on AUTO I have never had problem booting, never. Yeah I use TM5, HCI, Karhu, FFT 112K, problem is I tried maintaining the same timings in the screenshot back there but at 48C stable through those stress testers and wasn't having success, tried many IO/SA vDIMM combinations, so I don't want to loose timings and have worst latency and I decided just to refrigerate better the sticks while gaming to not reach 48C.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> By training you mean booting normally consistently? At that RTL/IOL manually set to the lowest my board gets on AUTO I have never had problem booting, never. Yeah I use TM5, HCI, Karhu, FFT 112K, problem is I tried maintaining the same timings in the screenshot back there but at 48C stable through those stress testers and wasn't having success, tried many IO/SA vDIMM combinations, so I don't want to loose timings and have worst latency and I decided just to refrigerate better the sticks while gaming to not reach 48C.


thats the irony on bdie for asus z490..the tighter... u do .. u actually become more stable..

i will test later cl16 4k.. booting and benching straight 16 was easy at 1.37v set.


----------



## cstkl1

was suppose to post a tm5 20 round consistency skew but i somehow had saved a blank

anyway doing short test with Stock intel cpu with ram to check skews are correct


10900k stock
M12E bios 0606

*
4x8gb 4133 17-17-17-37-2N @1.4v
vccio/[email protected] 1.28/1.28
*


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ObsidianSage said:


> Hello! First time overclocking RAM and looking for some guidance (hope it's allowed in this thread)
> 
> I recently purchase a kit of Crucial 2x16GB Micron Rev. E (BLS2K16G4D30AESC) and so far have been able to get it 14-19-19-36 @ DDR4-3600 w/ 1.47V, 1.25V VCCSIO/VCCSA. I haven't tried yet to lower these voltages. I am however noticing that I cannot lower tRCD/TRP under 19 without running into stability issues. Is this typical for Rev. E kits?
> 
> I've also had issues going the other direction by increasing bandwith/loosening timings. This kit will not go past DDR4-3733 without incredibly loose timings and I was wondering if this is also typical?
> 
> I've so far only messed with my primary timings, but if anyone has any input on where to go from here, I'd really appreciate it!


I havent tried 16gb sticks other than b die, but my recommendations are not to put your hopes too high anything over xmp. Thats the problem when you getting density over speed... The cmd rate will always be 2t on high mhz so forget about that timing is untouchable lol. Maybe if you lucky, she can do 1t @ 3500-3600 or lower mostly 3500 or lower... Let the board train and watch the rtls, if they high like 61-63-65s just a warning if they boot at 63 or more you dont have that much room left on the mhz side thats an indication they aint going to play nice.. My new set boots @ 59-61-59-61s @ 3733 so i have lil bit room only. At least thats what i watch in a new set before even touching them lol..
Im not to anal on the rtls as most people here unless is something very abnormal, not the same trying to align 4 sticks of 16gb than 2 sticks of 8gb.... Specially on quad channel. 

The most difficult timing to lower on primarys is tRCD 
again people wants to go symmetrical and follow rules etc... Wathever works for them i supposed xD.
I will lower anything i can if it boost something up it will get lowered.. And stress tested if it pass then good.

You can do CL lower than tRCD and tRP lower than tRCD or CL mostly one lower than CL that one can achieve one lower. you can do like ie 16/17/15s if it boost something and is stable lowered it lol... and test test test...

I dont know if in the 10th series intel untied tRCD and tRP but in amd and x299 you can do them seperately.. In my 8700k and 370 and 390 boards they were tied to the same number. Usually the tRCD is the problematic one to lower.

Try also playing with lower voltages.. I had some 8gb sticks M dies hynix that didnt like any voltage over 1.375v ..and have those primarys like that cl was low and the other 2, 3-4 over cl..

Try also lowering ur io/sa my 8700k does 4000-4133 with mere 1.16v on those even on 16gb dr kit, at 3600 i dont think you need that much io/sa voltage i mean is a silicon lottery after all but try lowering it and check.


*btw, i thought this topic is a stability test and help guidance to "ACHIEVE STABILITY" thread and was "NOT MADE" for "suicide" benches??*


----------



## Gen.

Hey guys. Russia and the Republic of Karelia are in touch. Here's what we got out of this PC. I am currently working on lowering IO / SA. And yes, I didn’t leave the Apex xi, I just donated the computer to my parents.

4100MHz Cores-4100MHz Ring-102.50MHz Bus Speed-3690MHz RAM 13(14)-19-19-36-2T (tXP=4). Voltage - 1.150Vcore, 1.450VDRAM, xVCCIO, xVCCSA
P.S. Actual CL on Z490 MSI up to 4133 is CL + 1, on 4200+ everything is fine. I already wrote a post on ru overclockers about this. So I have 3690 14-19-19-36-2T, not 13-19-19-36-2T. Good luck 

Log LinX:


Spoiler



Intel(R) LINPACK 64-bit data - LinX v0.9.7 for Intel

Current date/time: Sun Jul 26 04:24:21 2020

CPU frequency: 4.098 GHz
Number of CPUs: 1
Number of cores: 6
Number of threads: 12

Parameters are set to:

Number of tests: 1

Number of equations to solve (problem size) : 42000
Leading dimension of array : 42008
Number of trials to run : 50 
Data alignment value (in Kbytes) : 4 
Maximum memory requested that can be used=14115532256, at the size=42000

=================== Timing linear equation system solver ===================

Size LDA Align. Time(s) GFlops Residual Residual(norm) Check
42000 42008 4 146.356 337.5016 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.689 336.7360 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.111 338.0681 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.115 338.0598 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.153 337.9715 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.472 337.2349 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.380 337.4484 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.091 338.1159 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.149 337.9800 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.655 336.8145 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.132 338.0193 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.139 338.0030 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.185 337.8976 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.535 337.0899 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.160 337.9546 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.110 338.0705 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.067 338.1694 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.264 337.7159 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.567 337.0169 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.217 337.8238 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.227 337.8008 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.168 337.9377 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.646 336.8340 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.135 338.0134 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.110 338.0698 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.137 338.0077 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.717 336.6724 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.125 338.0359 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.117 338.0539 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.210 337.8393 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.603 336.9349 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.134 338.0162 1.490420e-09 3.009161e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.156 337.9634 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.114 338.0604 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.145 337.9891 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.834 338.7115 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.823 338.7355 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.866 338.6359 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.011 338.2994 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.902 338.5526 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.962 338.4136 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 146.058 338.1913 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.873 338.6193 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.813 338.7593 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.869 338.6301 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.920 338.5102 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.941 338.4631 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.886 338.5904 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.906 338.5441 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
42000 42008 4 145.821 338.7413 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass

Performance Summary (GFlops)

Size LDA Align. Average Maximal
42000 42008 4 337.9664 338.7593

Residual checks PASSED

End of tests


----------



## reflex75

Gen. said:


> Hey guys. Russia and the Republic of Karelia are in touch. Here's what we got out of this PC. I am currently working on lowering IO / SA. And yes, I didnâ€™️t leave the Apex xi, I just donated the computer to my parents.
> 
> 4100MHz Cores-4100MHz Ring-102.50MHz Bus Speed-3690MHz RAM 13(14)-19-19-36-2T (tXP=4). Voltage - 1.150Vcore, 1.450VDRAM, xVCCIO, xVCCSA
> P.S. Actual CL on Z490 MSI up to 4133 is CL + 1, on 4200+ everything is fine. I already wrote a post on ru overclockers about this. So I have 3690 14-19-19-36-2T, not 13-19-19-36-2T. Good luck /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> Log LinX:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Intel(R) LINPACK 64-bit data - LinX v0.9.7 for Intel
> 
> Current date/time: Sun Jul 26 04:24:21 2020
> 
> CPU frequency: 4.098 GHz
> Number of CPUs: 1
> Number of cores: 6
> Number of threads: 12
> 
> Parameters are set to:
> 
> Number of tests: 1
> 
> Number of equations to solve (problem size) : 42000
> Leading dimension of array : 42008
> Number of trials to run  : 50
> Data alignment value (in Kbytes) : 4
> Maximum memory requested that can be used=14115532256, at the size=42000
> 
> =================== Timing linear equation system solver ===================
> 
> Size LDA Align. Time(s) GFlops Residual Residual(norm) Check
> 42000 42008 4 146.356 337.5016 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.689 336.7360 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.111 338.0681 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.115 338.0598 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.153 337.9715 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.472 337.2349 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.380 337.4484 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.091 338.1159 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.149 337.9800 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.655 336.8145 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.132 338.0193 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.139 338.0030 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.185 337.8976 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.535 337.0899 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.160 337.9546 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.110 338.0705 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.067 338.1694 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.264 337.7159 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.567 337.0169 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.217 337.8238 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.227 337.8008 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.168 337.9377 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.646 336.8340 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.135 338.0134 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.110 338.0698 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.137 338.0077 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.717 336.6724 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.125 338.0359 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.117 338.0539 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.210 337.8393 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.603 336.9349 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.134 338.0162 1.490420e-09 3.009161e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.156 337.9634 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.114 338.0604 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.145 337.9891 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.834 338.7115 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.823 338.7355 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.866 338.6359 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.011 338.2994 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.902 338.5526 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.962 338.4136 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 146.058 338.1913 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.873 338.6193 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.813 338.7593 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.869 338.6301 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.920 338.5102 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.941 338.4631 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.886 338.5904 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.906 338.5441 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 42000 42008 4 145.821 338.7413 1.729588e-09 3.492040e-02 pass
> 
> Performance Summary (GFlops)
> 
> Size LDA Align. Average Maximal
> 42000 42008 4 337.9664 338.7593
> 
> Residual checks PASSED
> 
> End of tests


Priviet from France! 
Didn't know about Republic of Karelia (nice wooden churches).
LINPACK is very hard to pass, especially residuals. 
What is your Aida64 result at this setting?
What do you think about this new MB compared to your previous Apex?
Is it a downgrade for RAM OC?


----------



## Betroz

*wrong thread*


----------



## Gen.

reflex75 said:


> Didn't know about Republic of Karelia (nice wooden churches).


Yes, it's very beautiful here, especially to have a rest 


reflex75 said:


> LINPACK is very hard to pass, especially residuals.


It's not difficult with 10400 


reflex75 said:


> What is your Aida64 result at this setting?


a little later I will attach a screenshot


reflex75 said:


> What do you think about this new MB compared to your previous Apex?


Undoubtedly the apex is better at everything, but the tomahawk is not bad, keeps the memory 4533 calm. Adequate bios are needed to make training easier (BIOS). I think maybe more, but you need a good memory controller and memory itself. Overall, the money I grabbed it (12,500 rubles or ~ $ 175) is a great pay.


reflex75 said:


> Is it a downgrade for RAM OC?


did not quite understand what was meant. I have 2 pc (mine and my parents - APEX XI + 8700K 4900/4600 6/12 1.19V AVX + 4400 16-16-1T 1.54V and Z490 Tomahawk + 10400 4100/4100 1.126AVX + 3690 14-19-19-36 -2T 1.450V).


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This is 2-way. Signal degrades when the temp is high. If the original dram signal is strong enough, it may also remain strong for the IMC to catch the signal. On the other hand, strong IMC can catch very weak signals. Sometimes in order to pass 4800C17 you need to keep the ram temp below 48c.


do you know what would be a good imc, like how much Vsa would a good imc need for 4700C17 24/7 stable?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> do you know what would be a good imc, like how much Vsa would a good imc need for 4700C17 24/7 stable?


It also depends on your DRAM.

IMO any VccSA around 1.4~1.45V should be a good IMC for an average pair of DRAM.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It also depends on your DRAM.
> 
> IMO any VccSA around 1.4~1.45V should be a good IMC for an average pair of DRAM.


I agree
I thought my IMC was restricting my ram overclock with the M11Gene 9900ks but after replacing everything except the ram with M12A 10900k I can clearly see my sticks are holding me back
Although I'm getting higher frequencies/lower primaries I'm still getting errors at relatively the same levels
My Viper Steels hit a hard wall at 4400cl16 and the TridentZs start to produce errors at 4500-x which is almost clear but there must be a bad chip on one stick as I can run Windows at 4800cl17 vccsa 1.4v
I'm also not getting very low latencies on the new platform. Gone from 34.5ns to 36ns to be generous
Maybe this will improve as the bios's get better or is it due to having more cores?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> I agree
> I thought my IMC was restricting my ram overclock with the M11Gene 9900ks but after replacing everything except the ram with M12A 10900k I can clearly see my sticks are holding me back
> Although I'm getting higher frequencies/lower primaries I'm still getting errors at relatively the same levels
> My Viper Steels hit a hard wall at 4400cl16 and the TridentZs start to produce errors at 4500-x which is almost clear but there must be a bad chip on one stick as I can run Windows at 4800cl17 vccsa 1.4
> I'm also not getting very low latencies on the new platform. Gone from 34.5ns to 36ns to be generous
> Maybe this will improve as the bios's get better or is it due to having more cores?



One way to find that out is to compare a 10600k(6c/12t) vs a 10700k(8c/16t) vs a 10900k(10c/20t) with the same exact ram configuration, same ram kit, same cache ratio, same core ratio, same stock bios, same motherboard, same cooling(zero difference in variables aside from core count). If it is due to core count, the 10600k should take the lead in latency automatically with the 10700k trailing behind and the 10900k in last.


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It also depends on your DRAM.
> 
> IMO any VccSA around 1.4~1.45V should be a good IMC for an average pair of DRAM.


thanks for the info!

Interestingly I was able to lower VccSA from 1.5V, which I needed to boot 4700C17 2T with auto secondaries and tertiaries in the first place, down to 1.32V! 

this is the absolute lowest it will go, 1.31V is instantly throwing hundreds of errors in hci.

Considering I'm running loose tRCD/tRP and 2T, would you consider my IMC good, bad or average?


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> Interestingly I was able to lower VccSA from 1.5V, which I needed to boot 4700C17 2T with auto secondaries and tertiaries in the first place, down to 1.32V! this is the absolute lowest it will go, 1.31V is instantly throwing hundreds of errors in hci.


Try to pass that with TM5 anta777 preset, and good luck


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> I agree
> I thought my IMC was restricting my ram overclock with the M11Gene 9900ks but after replacing everything except the ram with M12A 10900k I can clearly see my sticks are holding me back
> Although I'm getting higher frequencies/lower primaries I'm still getting errors at relatively the same levels
> My Viper Steels hit a hard wall at 4400cl16 and the TridentZs start to produce errors at 4500-x which is almost clear but there must be a bad chip on one stick as I can run Windows at 4800cl17 vccsa 1.4v
> I'm also not getting very low latencies on the new platform. Gone from 34.5ns to 36ns to be generous
> Maybe this will improve as the bios's get better or is it due to having more cores?





XGS-Duplicity said:


> One way to find that out is to compare a 10600k(6c/12t) vs a 10700k(8c/16t) vs a 10900k(10c/20t) with the same exact ram configuration, same ram kit, same cache ratio, same core ratio, same stock bios, same motherboard, same cooling(zero difference in variables aside from core count). If it is due to core count, the 10600k should take the lead in latency automatically with the 10700k trailing behind and the 10900k in last.


The ring on 10 gen is longer than 9 gen so there is a circa 2ns more latency compared to 9 gen.

The mem latencies on 10600K and 10700K are also silicon lotteries that depend on where those disabled cores at.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> thanks for the info!
> 
> Interestingly I was able to lower VccSA from 1.5V, which I needed to boot 4700C17 2T with auto secondaries and tertiaries in the first place, down to 1.32V!
> 
> this is the absolute lowest it will go, 1.31V is instantly throwing hundreds of errors in hci.
> 
> Considering I'm running loose tRCD/tRP and 2T, would you consider my IMC good, bad or average?


It's good enough. If you can shrink tRDRD and tWRWR sg/dg to 6-4 and pass TM5 Ollie or anta777 under 55c ram temp, that would be a golden IMC


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The ring on 10 gen is longer than 9 gen so there is a circa 2ns more latency compared to 9 gen.
> 
> The mem latencies on 10600K and 10700K are also silicon lotteries that depend on where those disabled cores at.



If what you say is true, why would they make the ring longer for their 6c/12t and 8c/16t K-skus if it makes performance worse? I don't quite understand. next gen refreshes have historically increased performance by 10%-15% but i'm not seeing that increase when comparing a 9900k vs a 10700k. 



Also, is there a way to enable cores that were disabled in the factory? Does the 9900k have disabled cores?


----------



## Gen.

AIDA+Low voltages for everything.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> If what you say is true, why would they make the ring longer for their 6c/12t and 8c/16t K-skus if it makes performance worse? I don't quite understand. next gen refreshes have historically increased performance by 10%-15% but i'm not seeing that increase when comparing a 9900k vs a 10700k.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, is there a way to enable cores that were disabled in the factory? Does the 9900k have disabled cores?


9900K is the original chips on the wafer, and 9700K, 9600K come from the worse part of the same wafer.

Similarly, the original patterns on the 10 gen wafer are all 10900K. For the parts that are not qualified for 10900K Intel will disable some cores to make 10700K and 10600K, to make the most benefits. This can also be proven by the worse OC ability of the 10600K & 10700K compared to 10900K.

In the past, you can enable some cores in lame AMD cpus, like x3 720. But there has not been a case of Intel chips.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 9900K is the original chips on the wafer, and 9700K, 9600K come from the worse part of the same wafer.
> 
> Similarly, the original patterns on the 10 gen wafer are all 10900K. For the parts that are not qualified for 10900K Intel will disable some cores to make 10700K and 10600K, to make the most benefits. This can also be proven by the worse OC ability of the 10600K & 10700K compared to 10900K.
> 
> In the past, you can enable some cores in lame AMD cpus, like x3 720. But there has not been a case of Intel chips.



gotcha ty


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> gotcha ty


Yup..

Wafers are expensive, and there will always be good and bad parts on the wafer.

Some chips have two steppings, like the 9400F. You can differentiate them by the caps on the back, or the top lid. P0/R0 are from the 9 gen wafer and U0 is from the 8 gen wafer.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup..
> 
> Wafers are expensive, and there will always be good and bad parts on the wafer.
> 
> Some chips have two steppings, like the 9400F. You can differentiate them by the caps on the back, or the top lid. P0/R0 are from the 9 gen wafer and U0 is from the 8 gen wafer.



Ya figured as much. No biggie though in regards to the performance difference between 9900k and 10700k as the price for a 10700k is something along the lines of 25% cheaper. Still a great chip. And if one of the users was correct, perhaps some future bioses may improve things a little bit. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me in the matter.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Ya figured as much. No biggie though in regards to the performance difference between 9900k and 10700k as the price for a 10700k is something along the lines of 25% cheaper. Still a great chip. And if one of the users was correct, perhaps some future bioses may improve things a little bit. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me in the matter.


No problem


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The ring on 10 gen is longer than 9 gen so there is a circa 2ns more latency compared to 9 gen.
> 
> The mem latencies on 10600K and 10700K are also silicon lotteries that depend on where those disabled cores at.


So 35.x ns is the new 33.x ns


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> So 35.x ns is the new 33.x ns


Yup, roughly


----------



## N7+

munternet said:


> I agree
> I thought my IMC was restricting my ram overclock with the M11Gene 9900ks but after replacing everything except the ram with M12A 10900k I can clearly see my sticks are holding me back
> Although I'm getting higher frequencies/lower primaries I'm still getting errors at relatively the same levels
> My Viper Steels hit a hard wall at 4400cl16 and the TridentZs start to produce errors at 4500-x which is almost clear but there must be a bad chip on one stick as I can run Windows at 4800cl17 vccsa 1.4v
> I'm also not getting very low latencies on the new platform. Gone from 34.5ns to 36ns to be generous
> Maybe this will improve as the bios's get better or is it due to having more cores?


It's because of the ringbus. The last two cores are tacked on. RocketLake should bring back CoffeLake level latency.


----------



## munternet

Just a little reminder to all memory overclockers
*Keep a backup of your OS*
I corrupted a large chunk of windows yesterday
It may have been when I was running 4800MHz or one of many blue screens 
I will be backing up my OS drive with Acronis to a M.2 drive mounted on a PCi-e card purchased from Aliexpress this time 'round


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> Try to pass that with TM5 anta777 preset, and good luck





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It's good enough. If you can shrink tRDRD and tWRWR sg/dg to 6-4 and pass TM5 Ollie or anta777 under 55c ram temp, that would be a golden IMC


really, golden?


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> really, golden?


Nice result! Please post Aida


----------



## Intrud3r

Nothing fancy, was just playing around with the TXP setting. Default 7 ... lowered it to 5 and ran Karhu overnight ... seems stable.
Lower latency then at 4100 C16 with TXP at 7


----------



## ogider

the compatibility mode during the test has no effect on the test?


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> Nice result! Please post Aida


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> Just a little reminder to all memory overclockers
> *Keep a backup of your OS*
> I corrupted a large chunk of windows yesterday
> It may have been when I was running 4800MHz or one of many blue screens
> I will be backing up my OS drive with Acronis to a M.2 drive mounted on a PCi-e card purchased from Aliexpress this time 'round


i already killed one samsung 970evo 512gb . gone for rma
and soon one 970evo plus . this was from skew testing. at one point thought my .2080ti was a goner.. (asus bios dark mode.. windows scaling resolution all whack)


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> the compatibility mode during the test has no effect on the test?


dram clk with mode 1. ????????


----------



## JoeRambo

Gen. said:


> AIDA+Low voltages for everything.



Where can i download that Dragon Power utility for MSI? Does it require that massive install of MSI center?


----------



## kevindd992002

Delete


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> really, golden?


good enough. Congrats mate!


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Little bit of progress as yesterday was like 100f degrees in here XD
havent lost that touch yet 4x16GB Sticks (64GB kit) XD

fumy tho one cycle of anta777 extreme is almost twice the double the time than 3 cycles on just 16gb XD also have a 4hr+ run on 3733..
tch tch tch, i dont think thats enough time to call stable too little time i dont see why the big fuss better than musmusv3 tho.. keep preferring hci XD


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> good enough. Congrats mate!


thx dude, also for recommending setting tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg to 6


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

4500Mhz 16-16-16


----------



## munternet

fly1ngh1gh said:


> 4500Mhz 16-16-16


Looking good :thumb:
Aida shot?
What sticks?


----------



## Nizzen

Team T-Force XTREEM 4500c18 8pack edition @ 4700c17 1t
Aida was done with the change to 53 on cpu 

Last Aida 64 is max Cinebench r20 loop stable.


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


>


Whoa. And is 5.5GHz common? That seems like an incredible CPU.


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


>


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


>


damn, those tridentz royal kits are such sick bins o.0
tCWL to 14 and tCKE to 5 maybe? might not work for 1t though


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

munternet said:


> Looking good :thumb:
> Aida shot?
> What sticks?


Thanks! This was done in a hurry and from the first time, without selecting the voltage. In the future, I will carefully test these settings). Sticks of TeamGroup T-Force Xtreem (TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01).


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> damn, those tridentz royal kits are such sick bins o.0
> tCWL to 14 and tCKE to 5 maybe? might not work for 1t though


This is Team Extreem 4500c18 8pack edition 

This settings is stable for me. Tnx for the advice, and I will try


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Those 8pack kits are great on apex/gene/dark boards. I Tried them on the z390 aorus master with multiple bioses and they wouldn't do [email protected] at any voltage with loose subs or tight subs, not on 4 dimms and not on 2 dimms either. Both kit serial numbers were right after the other too. If you have an apex/gene/dark, it's definitely in the top 5 or top 10 right after GSKILL. Nice reulsts mate


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

munternet said:


> Just a little reminder to all memory overclockers
> *Keep a backup of your OS*
> I corrupted a large chunk of windows yesterday
> It may have been when I was running 4800MHz or one of many blue screens
> I will be backing up my OS drive with Acronis to a M.2 drive mounted on a PCi-e card purchased from Aliexpress this time 'round



Oddly enough, I just recently worked with this frequency 4800Mhz CL 17-17-17 and I have died windows. However I was going to reinstall windows anyway


----------



## ViTosS

I have set a command line to test till 800% coverage, based in this tutorial from here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1703708-automating-hci-memtest-no-more-frustration.html

But it seems that only works with the multiple instances open (in my case, 12 (threads) windows of normal/free version of HCI MemTest), does anyone tried to use command line to have it automated to open the MemTestPro interface (not the free/normal/classic) and also just 1 window instead of the equivalent of all your threads, just like the MemTestPro does without command line?


----------



## N7+

tXP does wonders for latency. Default is 15. I set it to 4.

Seems to take a tiny bit of read performance with it. tRDRD_dd 4 gave 64577mb/s read previously but this is more then worth it.


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> This is Team Extreem 4500c18 8pack edition
> 
> This settings is stable for me. Tnx for the advice, and I will try


huh okay, thought I was the only one not running those tacky, ugly ass, royal sticks 

question is always if you can get it 24/7 stable or if it's only good for glory runs.

I'm trying to get to 4800c17 now, but I can't quite get past 100% hci stability, might need some more tinkering tomorrow, but aida looks promising, without having tuned IO-Ls yet.


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> huh okay, thought I was the only one not running those tacky, ugly ass, royal sticks
> 
> question is always if you can get it 24/7 stable or if it's only good for glory runs.
> 
> I'm trying to get to 4800c17 now, but I can't quite get past 100% hci stability, might need some more tinkering tomorrow, but aida looks promising, without having tuned IO-Ls yet.


The 4700c17 1t is Ramtest stable. Look at the posted picture 

5600mhz and 4700c17 is not 24/7 prime95 stable, but I don't care 

This will be a Battlefield gaming cpu.


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> The 4700c17 1t is Ramtest stable. Look at the posted picture
> 
> 5600mhz and 4700c17 is not 24/7 prime95 stable, but I don't care
> 
> This will be a Battlefield gaming cpu.


you'll probably get the most fps anyone has ever gotten in battlefield with that setup 

it makes complete sense to validate stability just for your usecase. mine is stable everywhere except prime avx and linpack, but it can do blender and realbench, so what the hey good enough


----------



## ViTosS

Nizzen said:


> The 4700c17 1t is Ramtest stable. Look at the posted picture
> 
> 5600mhz and 4700c17 is not 24/7 prime95 stable, but I don't care
> 
> This will be a Battlefield gaming cpu.


Do you consider 34min of RAMTest stable? I have some settings that gives me errors at like 51min of TM5 (one of the best to quick detect errors).

i9 10900k at 5.6Ghz and [email protected] 1T should never bottleneck a 2080Ti in BFV, maybe in 1080p but 1440p no, I don't have bottleneck playing here with 1440p and High settings at 110-150fps with [email protected] and 1080Ti and [email protected], I wonder how would your setup perform, probably insanely


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> you'll probably get the most fps anyone has ever gotten in battlefield with that setup
> 
> it makes complete sense to validate stability just for your usecase. mine is stable everywhere except prime avx and linpack, but it can do blender and realbench, so what the hey good enough



A "few" fps with standard config. Mesh @ ultra quality 1080p. 

Haven't seen ANY AMD systems wit average fps over 300fps on this map LOL
Don't know if I have seen ANY over 200fps on average


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> skullbringer said:
> 
> 
> 
> huh okay, thought I was the only one not running those tacky, ugly ass, royal sticks /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> question is always if you can get it 24/7 stable or if it's only good for glory runs.
> 
> I'm trying to get to 4800c17 now, but I can't quite get past 100% hci stability, might need some more tinkering tomorrow, but aida looks promising, without having tuned IO-Ls yet.
> 
> 
> 
> The 4700c17 1t is Ramtest stable. Look at the posted picture /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 5600mhz and 4700c17 is not 24/7 prime95 stable, but I don't care /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> This will be a Battlefield gaming cpu.
Click to expand...

 come on man at least 20000%+ on 16gb sticks the sticks are not even warm at that % like the last 10-20tests posted by other users here before yours as well. "Suicide"


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ViTosS said:


> Nizzen said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 4700c17 1t is Ramtest stable. Look at the posted picture /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 5600mhz and 4700c17 is not 24/7 prime95 stable, but I don't care /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> This will be a Battlefield gaming cpu.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you consider 34min of RAMTest stable? I have some settings that gives me errors at like 51min of TM5 (one of the best to quick detect errors).
> 
> i9 10900k at 5.6Ghz and [email protected] 1T should never bottleneck a 2080Ti in BFV, maybe in 1080p but 1440p no, I don't have bottleneck playing here with 1440p and High settings at 110-150fps with [email protected] and 1080Ti and [email protected], I wonder how would your setup perform, probably insanely /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Click to expand...

 i highly doubt you see any difference to be honest.. You at @ 1440p with a 1080ti whats your gpu usage load? Bcuz if is 90-99% you aint getting no more than what you getting now.. Its all about raising that gpu% usage. Maybe you get a bit boost on those minimal but all that is on subpar resolutions


----------



## munternet

Read, write and copy seem pretty high for a 4400MHz but latency seems the trade off
These sticks are at their frequency limit but got down to cl16
Not sure if it's because of the new platform but my BFV kd seems to have gone up 
Maybe it's smoother....
1080ti 3440*1440 120Hz
Getting ~120fps all low settings


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Read, write and copy seem pretty high for a 4400MHz but latency seems the trade off
> These sticks are at their frequency limit but got down to cl16
> Not sure if it's because of the new platform but my BFV kd seems to have gone up
> Maybe it's smoother....
> 1080ti 3440*1440 120Hz
> Getting ~120fps all low settings


How stable are those settings really...? Btw your 1080Ti is a serious bottleneck, but I guess you are waiting for Nvidia Ampere?


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> How stable are those settings really...? Btw your 1080Ti is a serious bottleneck, but I guess you are waiting for Nvidia Ampere?


No, I'm waiting for more money 

I think stability is good
I ran TM5 ollie for 2 hours
GSAT for an hour 
and BFV for about 3 hours with HWiNFO64 open 

These 4400c19 vipers are actually pretty good for stability, albeit at lower frequencies than the G.Skills which booted at 4800c17 and ran windows
It's the G.Skills that give me trouble after hours of testing then one or two errors @ 4600c17


----------



## munternet

I just finished installing W10 again and have made a proper backup this time with all my software and games loaded which I can install in about 5 minutes 
I highly recommend one of these little PCi-e to M.2 cards which are a few dollars on Aliexpress


----------



## nick name

Have you fine folks determined the best binned b-dies? Or an idea of what might be the best binned? The versions of 4400C19 out there seem to be the fastest that someone can reasonably find and then there's the varying voltages those kits are rated at.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> Have you fine folks determined the best binned b-dies? Or an idea of what might be the best binned? The versions of 4400C19 out there seem to be the fastest that someone can reasonably find and then there's the varying voltages those kits are rated at.



gskill 18-19-1[email protected] 1.4v is amazing, 2x8gb only. #1 4400 kit anyone can buy, probably does c17 [email protected] with 1.5v or less

gskill [email protected] 1.5v is very good, dimms from the 8x8GB kit will be insane, available in 2x8gb, 4x8gb, 8x8gb. Trident z royal/tridentzrgb best versions imo, ripjaws 4x8gb config runs HOTTTT and probably requires fan. 

gskill [email protected] 1.45v is amazing, 4x8gb only, #1 4x8gb kit anyone can buy for clocking up and for clocking down. If you are aiming for C15-4400, this is the kit that gskill recommends to have the best shot at it. Can probably do c15-4400 @ 1.6v 



There are some gskill 4x8gb 4500 kits out there from z370 era that are near impossible to find, original retail something like one thousand dollars. Would be curious of the quality.
There are some gskill 4x8gb 4400 kits from z370 era that are also near impossible to find, i forget original price, but would also be curious of the quality.



Gskill 4600 @ 1.45v is one of the best bins and gskill 4800 is the highest bin. Someone on here tested 4x8gb(two 2x8gb kits) gskill 4600 1.45v on z390 auros master. They got a very healthy c15-4133 @ 1.5v on 4 dimms. can't speak much about gskill 4800, i just know its the highest bin they offer at this time.


(all this is said assuming z490 dimms haven't come out yet, the [email protected] bins look interesting)


----------



## SoldierRBT

Does anyone know why I get a lot of 55 codes in the Z490 Apex when trying to boot 4800MHz 18-22-42 XMP 1.50v? I know my 3200C14 kit can do that easily in the Z390 Apex board. In the Z490 Apex I'm able to do 4600C17 with tight timings no problem but 4800MHz is a no go. Currently using 4500MHz CL17 1.250v VSA.


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> gskill [email protected] 1.4v is amazing, 2x8gb only. #1 4400 kit anyone can buy, probably does c17 [email protected] with 1.5v or less
> 
> gskill [email protected] 1.5v is very good, dimms from the 8x8GB kit will be insane, available in 2x8gb, 4x8gb, 8x8gb. Trident z royal/tridentzrgb best versions imo, ripjaws 4x8gb config runs HOTTTT and probably requires fan.
> 
> gskill [email protected] 1.45v is amazing, 4x8gb only, #1 4x8gb kit anyone can buy for clocking up and for clocking down
> 
> 
> 
> There are some gskill 4x8gb 4500 kits out there from z370 era that are near impossible to find, original retail something like one thousand dollars. Would be curious of the quality.
> There are some gskill 4x8gb 4400 kits from z370 era that are also near impossible to find, i forget original price, but would also be curious of the quality.
> 
> 
> 
> Gskill 4600 @ 1.45v is one of the best bins and gskill 4800 is the highest bin. Someone on here tested 4x8gb(two 2x8gb kits) gskill 4600 1.45v on z390 auros master. They got a very healthy c15-4133 @ 1.5v on 4 dimms. can't speak much about gskill 4800, i just know its the highest bin they offer at this time.
> 
> 
> (all this is said assuming z490 dimms haven't come out yet, the [email protected] bins look interesting)


I really appreciate the very thorough write-up. 

From what I've seen -- many of those kits are RGB. Are there any that aren't? And I hate that G.Skill put some of their best dies into those Royals.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> I really appreciate the very thorough write-up.
> 
> From what I've seen -- many of those kits are RGB. Are there any that aren't? And I hate that G.Skill put some of their best dies into those Royals.



Ripjaws is gskills non-rgb line up. I'm not sure if they have any other non-rgb sub-brands aside from ripjaws. 



Ya i hear very good things about the royals. The tridentzrgb are pretty good, running 4x8gb c17-4000 @ 15-15-15-32 4266 at this time with 1.6v. Maybe same bin royals do it with 10mv to spare, maybe 20mv to spare at best? Possibly extra 33mhz at 1.6v maybe, possibly.


----------



## skullbringer

XGS-Duplicity said:


> snipp


what do you think about the 3800 14-15-15-35 1.45V bin?


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> I really appreciate the very thorough write-up.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've seen -- many of those kits are RGB. Are there any that aren't? And I hate that G.Skill put some of their best dies into those Royals.


how about these?








Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

skullbringer said:


> what do you think about the 3800 14-15-15-35 1.45V bin?



I haven't tried it, i haven't studied results from it. I honestly didn't know it existed. I can't comment on it at all unfortunately. I don't know a thing about it. It looks like a pretty good kit for 3800/1900 on amd. No idea how it would upclock though. The c15-4000 kits can do c13-3800 on amd as demonstrated by gamers nexus, impressive.


----------



## Nizzen

nick name said:


> I really appreciate the very thorough write-up.
> 
> From what I've seen -- many of those kits are RGB. Are there any that aren't? And I hate that G.Skill put some of their best dies into those Royals.


Here you can see what is RGB or not 

https://www.gskill.com/products/1/165/Desktop-Memory


----------



## skullbringer

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I haven't tried it, i haven't studied results from it. I honestly didn't know it existed. I can't comment on it at all unfortunately. I don't know a thing about it.


huh okay, I just got it because it looked very promising on paper with advertised tCL ~7.37ns and is relatively inexpensive at ~200 Euro. 

I'm running 4700 17-18-18-36 2T 1.55V 1300% hci stable, maybe a result to study for you if you're interested


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Ripjaws is gskills non-rgb line up. I'm not sure if they have any other non-rgb sub-brands aside from ripjaws.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya i hear very good things about the royals. The tridentzrgb are pretty good, running 4x8gb c17-4000 @ 15-15-15-32 4266 at this time with 1.6v. Maybe same bin royals do it with 10mv to spare, maybe 20mv to spare at best? Possibly extra 33mhz at 1.6v maybe, possibly.


I was hoping more for the non-RGB TridentZ. Though the Ripjaws don't look horrible when isntalled. 

Nothing to do with performance, but what I'd really like is if G.Skill sold the plastic TridentZ trim pieces in different colors so can customize your set. It bugs me that certain bins get certain colors. 

I have a 4400C19 TridentZ kit arriving today (after being lost in the mail for 10 days) that I'm gonna compare to a 3600C15 kit I got earlier this month. That 3600C15 does 4400MHz 16-18-16-16 with 250 tRFC at around 1.6V and I'm excited to see what the 4400C19 will do.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

skullbringer said:


> huh okay, I just got it because it looked very promising on paper with advertised tCL ~7.37ns and is relatively inexpensive at ~200 Euro.
> 
> I'm running 4700 17-18-18-36 2T 1.55V 1300% hci stable, maybe a result to study for you if you're interested



Looks good . very good job. Very nice result. Someone offered to give me a free apex z390 board on this website via pms. I had to turn down the offer because the 48 laws of power says never to accept free gifts. Could have also been someone trying to find out who I really am so I think it could have also been an attempt to obtain a mailing address. 


I wish I could have afforded the gskill 17-18-18-38 4266 4x8gb kit but i didn't have enough birthday giftcard money. Had to settle for trying 2 2x8gb 4500 kits at $360 total from a different brand only to lose 60 dollars of birthday gift money in restock fees because they wouldn't work properly. stupid crap never again trying budget brand ram sticks, if there is one thing i learned about ram in the last year, price actually matters and you get what you pay for. GSKILL all the way.


----------



## skullbringer

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Looks good . very good job. Very nice result. Someone offered to give me a free apex z390 board on this website via pms. I had to turn down the offer because the 48 laws of power says never to accept free gifts. Could have also been someone trying to find out who I really am so I think it could have also been an attempt to obtain a mailing address.
> 
> 
> I wish I could have afforded the gskill 17-18-18-38 4266 4x8gb kit but i didn't have enough birthday giftcard money. Had to settle for trying 2 2x8gb 4500 kits at $360 total from a different brand only to lose 60 dollars of birthday gift money in restock fees because they wouldn't work properly. stupid crap never again trying budget brand ram sticks, if there is one thing i learned about ram in the last year, price actually matters and you get what you pay for. GSKILL all the way.



ty 

and so true, for DDR4 b-die I've tried other vendors like Teamgroup, but I've always been dissatisfied if not disappointed. I mean not even a temp sensor on a 240 Euro XTREEME kit, come on, Teamgroup!

G.Skill on the other hand has always been more than solid. And if you know what bins are a good deal, they are actually also very decent value. Their lifetime warranty is the cherry on top. 

I'm usually not a fanboy kinda guy, but when one brand is just plain superior, you gotta recommend them. What Noctua is for air coolers, is G.Skill for RAM.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> XGS-Duplicity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif. very good job. Very nice result. Someone offered to give me a free apex z390 board on this website via pms. I had to turn down the offer because the 48 laws of power says never to accept free gifts. Could have also been someone trying to find out who I really am so I think it could have also been an attempt to obtain a mailing address.
> 
> 
> I wish I could have afforded the gskill 17-18-18-38 4266 4x8gb kit but i didn't have enough birthday giftcard money. Had to settle for trying 2 2x8gb 4500 kits at $360 total from a different brand only to lose 60 dollars of birthday gift money in restock fees because they wouldn't work properly. stupid crap never again trying budget brand ram sticks, if there is one thing i learned about ram in the last year, price actually matters and you get what you pay for. GSKILL all the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ty /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> and so true, for DDR4 b-die I've tried other vendors like Teamgroup, but I've always been dissatisfied if not disappointed. I mean not even a temp sensor on a 240 Euro XTREEME kit, come on, Teamgroup!
> 
> G.Skill on the other hand has always been more than solid. And if you know what bins are a good deal, they are actually also very decent value. Their lifetime warranty is the cherry on top.
> 
> I'm usually not a fanboy kinda guy, but when one brand is just plain superior, you gotta recommend them. What Noctua is for air coolers, is G.Skill for RAM.
Click to expand...

Yeah this teamgroup 64gb kit i got doesnt have a temp sensor either but i play alot with bdies and i have a ir gun, not so convenient like the sensor tho xD.. They were like $800 bucks back then lol. My other 32gb kit i have from gskill i paid $430.. The rgb on them are not good on stress testing tho lol. They will heat the sticks like it aint nobody business

so thank god i already know what to do with them and what heats them the worst. This are bought second hand with blocks and everything but im testing them first without the block first. This 16gb sticks DR get hotter than 8gb sticks too so wth teamgroup if you reading..


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> ty
> 
> and so true, for DDR4 b-die I've tried other vendors like Teamgroup, but I've always been dissatisfied if not disappointed. I mean not even a temp sensor on a 240 Euro XTREEME kit, come on, Teamgroup!
> 
> G.Skill on the other hand has always been more than solid. And if you know what bins are a good deal, they are actually also very decent value. Their lifetime warranty is the cherry on top.
> 
> I'm usually not a fanboy kinda guy, but when one brand is just plain superior, you gotta recommend them. What Noctua is for air coolers, is G.Skill for RAM.


Once I learned that the Vipers don't have temp sensors I stopped considering them. I'm surprised to learn that those Teamgroup kits don't have 'em either. It just seems obvious . . . when you're running at the ragged edge -- temp matters.


----------



## Nizzen

Finally a new bios for MSI Unify ITX 

From hwbot:

Add New Mem O.C Feature 

1. Lucky Mode: Increases Memory O.C stability

2. Power Down Control (Try new tricks on Memory Latency)
Power Down Mode > PPD 
PPD > 0, tXP > 5 

MEG Z490 GODLIKE 7C70IMS.12U https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnVser5qzZznikRZCDpnCs_6Vr3J?e=4xUoXK
MEG Z490 ACE 7C71IMS.12U https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnVser5qzZznikeybWwjCJ5TFYnk?e=9NQuRR
MEG Z490 UNIFY 7C70IMS.A2U https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnVser5qzZzniklvboDmQ1iBIlBW?e=oPpS6t
MEG Z490I UNIFY 7C77IMS.12W https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnVser5qzZznikVbRK_kgPjCz8fl?e=qKZyNz


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> Once I learned that the Vipers don't have temp sensors I stopped considering them. I'm surprised to learn that those Teamgroup kits don't have 'em either. It just seems obvious . . . when you're running at the ragged edge -- temp matters.



agreed, though when I tried two 2x8gb 4500 kits from a brand i won't name, even in good ambient with 11 case fans for proper ventiliation(120mm and 40mm fans dedicated just for the dimms), They could not be stabilized at good timings/frequency in 4x8gb or 2x8gb configuration on my board. XMP would boot but unstable. cas 15 flat at 4000 or higher a no go, at any voltage. I just think those dimms are suited for apex/dark/gene boards and could be a really good value for that as many users here have shown, I can't crap on them entirely because I want to be fair about it. But yeah, high performance ram should ALWAYS have temp sensors, temps are a big part of the game that we play. But then again those dimms were built off the works of a professional overclocker who focuses mainly on ln2, so that could also be a reason why they don't include temp sensors as they get frosty anyway. These companies really ought to hire/sponsor overclockers who are good at memtest stable daily driver configurations instead of ln2 fanatics, after all, the majority of the OC/pc market is memtest stable daily drivers and not ln2 enthusiasts.


----------



## Zemach

Quick test 4666 CL 16 16 16 36


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

TeamGroup T-force Xtreem XMP 4133Mhz 130$ Modesty is the sister of talent, well, I mean the cost of memory


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

fly1ngh1gh said:


> TeamGroup T-force Xtreem XMP 4133Mhz 130$ Modesty is the sister of talent, well, I mean the cost of memory



bravo, great result. xtreem dimms are great on apex/dark/gene boards since those boards really know how to milk a ram pcb/ics. Any chance you can show us 4x8gb xtreem dimms on z390 witha 9900k at 6,400% karhu or more? Would be interested to see how low of cas they can be brought down to at 4000mhz+(4000, 4100, 4133, 4200, 4266, 4300, 4333, 4400) on 4 dimms as well as how high of frequency can be achieved while being 6,400% karhu stable? Not sure if you are the right person to ask about this or if there is an official xtreem representative on here dedicated to testing the products. If you could point me in the right direction that would be fantastic. Am very interested in seeing what xtreem is capable of in 4x8gb configuration on z390 with a 9900k.


Tis a shame, before the ram restock fees, I could have maybe afforded a z390 apex(assuming I was able to find a brand new factory sealed(original factory shrink wrap/seal, no re-seal and no preowned) z390 apex at a reasonable price). Unfortunately, It's completely out of the question now.


----------



## Gregix

fly1ngh1gh said:


> TeamGroup T-force Xtreem XMP 4133Mhz 130$ Modesty is the sister of talent, well, I mean the cost of memory


Damn man...I hate when u do something like this... 

I wish I could have courage to buy some asus high mem oc motherboard, but...but here is wife in my room, and while she did not noticed ram swap, motherboard change I could not hide...


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

XGS-Duplicity said:


> bravo, great result. xtreem dimms are great on apex/dark/gene boards since those boards really know how to milk a ram pcb/ics. Any chance you can show us 4x8gb xtreem dimms on z390 witha 9900k at 6,400% karhu or more? Would be interested to see how low of cas they can be brought down to at 4000mhz+(4000, 4100, 4133, 4200, 4266, 4300, 4333, 4400) on 4 dimms as well as how high of frequency can be achieved while being 6,400% karhu stable? Not sure if you are the right person to ask about this or if there is an official xtreem representative on here dedicated to testing the products. If you could point me in the right direction that would be fantastic. Am very interested in seeing what xtreem is capable of in 4x8gb configuration on z390 with a 9900k.


Unfortunately, I do not have such an opportunity, although I recently had a similar TeamGroup XMP 4300Mhz CL 18-20-20 kit, but I sold it. In terms of overclocking potential, it was the same as this kit, but with RTL training it was a little more difficult. Regarding the 4x8Gb A2 revision, I heard that overclocking is not so smooth, but I have no confidence in this)


Gregix said:


> Damn man...I hate when u do something like this...
> 
> I wish I could have courage to buy some asus high mem oc motherboard, but...but here is wife in my room, and while she did not noticed ram swap, motherboard change I could not hide...


Try to make your wife happy with gifts in the form of flowers, maybe it will work?)


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Unfortunately, I do not have such an opportunity, although I recently had a similar TeamGroup XMP 4300Mhz CL 18-20-20 kit, but I sold it. In terms of overclocking potential, it was the same as this kit, but with RTL training it was a little more difficult. Regarding the 4x8Gb A2 revision, I heard that overclocking is not so smooth, but I have no confidence in this)
> 
> Try to make your wife happy with gifts in the form of flowers, maybe it will work?)



Happy wife=happy life


----------



## nick name

So I got the the 4400C19 in my rig and it seems to run a bit better than my new 3600C15 kit. All kits are TridentZ non-RGB. 

Old 3600C15 (July 2018) kit does 4400MHz 18-20-18-18 (loose timings at around 1.6V) and rarely boots 4600MHz
New 3600C15 (June 2020) kit does 4400MHz 16-18-16-16 (tight timings at around 1.6V) and runs 4600MHz at 18-20-18-18 (tight timings at around 1.7V)
New 4400C19 (June 2020) kit does 4600MHz 16-18-16-16 (tight timings at around 1.7V)

I haven't really done a whole lot of testing with this new kit yet and I know my results are not entirely useful to you Intel guys, but it does appear that the bin gains performance up the sku stack. Also, my old b-die isn't as good as the latest b-die / PCB revision.


----------



## wingman99

Did Samsung change the DDR4 memory chips to higher performance ones this year. Also did the memory companies increase production because the prices are back to low memory cost when I purchased new year 2016.


----------



## Nizzen

wingman99 said:


> Did Samsung change the DDR4 memory chips to higher performance ones this year. Also did the memory companies increase production because the prices are back to my memory cost when I purchased new year 2016.


No one knows. It's pretty much random. My new G.skill 4x4000c15 kit don't overclock higher (dual channel on Apex xii) than pretty old other b-die kits. But I haven't testet hundreds of kits 

I want 5000mhz c17 capable b-die kit that doesn't cost more than the 10900k 

Cold is always the key to success


----------



## nick name

wingman99 said:


> Did Samsung change the DDR4 memory chips to higher performance ones this year. Also did the memory companies increase production because the prices are back to my memory cost when I purchased new year 2016.


I guess it's a combination of different things. The new 3600C15 kit I bought cost half as much as when I bought it in 2018. 

As far as better -- I know there are different and better PCB revisions and perhaps better die quality too.


----------



## Betroz

Nothing special, but my go to settings at the moment :


----------



## wingman99

Nizzen said:


> No one knows. It's pretty much random. My new G.skill 4x4000c15 kit don't overclock higher (dual channel on Apex xii) than pretty old other b-die kits. But I haven't testet hundreds of kits
> 
> I want 5000mhz c17 capable b-die kit that doesn't cost more than the 10900k
> 
> Cold is always the key to success


I read here https://wccftech.com/samsung-b-die-...ction of,by overclockers and powerusers alike that Samsung stop making B die and are going with A die and M die. What do you know about that change.


----------



## Nizzen

wingman99 said:


> I read here https://wccftech.com/samsung-b-die-...ction of,by overclockers and powerusers alike that Samsung stop making B die and are going with A die and M die. What do you know about that change.


They didn't stop producing b-die


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Nothing special, but my go to settings at the moment :


still rooms to improve  Try 0088 BIOS.

2*16GB micron E


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> I just finished installing W10 again and have made a proper backup this time with all my software and games loaded which I can install in about 5 minutes
> I highly recommend one of these little PCi-e to M.2 cards which are a few dollars on Aliexpress


Got a link to that pcie to m.2 card you found?


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> Got a link to that pcie to m.2 card you found?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004113547.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3e154c4dqv48bP


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> still rooms to improve  Try 0088 BIOS.


I have tried, but 4400 is max I have gotten stable with my Viper sticks. What is so special about the 0088 BIOS?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> I have tried, but 4400 is max I have gotten stable with my Viper sticks. What is so special about the 0088 BIOS?


You can tune tXP and PPD in BIOS


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

wingman99 said:


> I read here https://wccftech.com/samsung-b-die-...ction of,by overclockers and powerusers alike that Samsung stop making B die and are going with A die and M die. What do you know about that change.



Interesting article.


----------



## skullbringer

skullbringer said:


> how about these?
> View attachment 362652
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


finally got around to taking them for a proper spin, and they look pretty good


----------



## ogider

wow


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

@*skullbringer* great job . fantastic latency and about 70k copy is truly nasty.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

almost done before the hci run... cant boot past 3800 but thats more than i was hoping for.... just tight a few more and call it a day... @Jpmboy look at this one 4x16gb sticks
cough @ proper test run cough..


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

skullbringer said:


> finally got around to taking them for a proper spin, and they look pretty good


This is cool, but will these settings pass the test? We do not take a 5-minute modest test into account.


zGunBLADEz said:


> almost done before the hci run... cant boot past 3800 but thats more than i was hoping for


Great result!
Tell me, what memory set do you have?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

tch never mind those tests... i manage to boot not 2 but 4 16gb sticks @ 1T @ 3800MHz @[email protected]
training in the beginning @ 1t was a no go "typical" so i didnt try no more until now.. i had a hard time on a 8700k on a itx board 390 which is more easier to drive those sticks than x299..




fly1ngh1gh said:


> Great result!
> Tell me, what memory set do you have?


i got them used from ebay second hand, guy didnt have original heatsinks. just the XSPC waterblock heatsinks plus 2 x (4x ram xspc neo waterblock) on them according to him they were run at stock all the time...
i achieved that run with just the heatsinks no water yet lol

is this set
https://www.newegg.com/team-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331159


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

zGunBLADEz said:


> almost done before the hci run... cant boot past 3800 but thats more than i was hoping for.... just tight a few more and call it a day... @*Jpmboy* look at this one 4x16gb sticks
> cough @ proper test run cough..



What's an adequate proper test run on Karhu for a system that only games? I figure 6,400% is good because about 99.41% detection rate according to the karhu faq. If i wanted to do 100% detection rate just to fend off any doubters/haters, how much longer do I leave my memory OC in karhu for? They don't show a percentage number or time length for 100% detection in the karhu faq. I'm a little weary about running the 4x8gb c15-4266 under full memtest load long duration because the amount of dram volts i'm using and heavy vcore(way past intel spec). Any chance anyone might know the minimum coverage for 100%? I'm confident it will pass, but I'd like to squash any doubts anyone might have right away.


Here is karhu error detection rates for reference:


Coverage ≤ 100 %: 64,57 %
Coverage ≤ 200 %: 75,79 %
Coverage ≤ 400 %: 82,68 %
Coverage ≤ 800 %: 91,34 %
Coverage ≤ 1600 %: 96,06 %
Coverage ≤ 3200 %: 98,03 %
Coverage ≤ 6400 %: 99,41 %

The 1.5% jump from 98% to 99.41% needed 50% more test duration. Is 10,000% error free enough to satisfy the jelly haters? It's more than 50% increase in test duration from 99.41% to get the last .59%. Is that good enough? lol I'd like to quickly squash any doubts right away. I'll run it again if need be, prove its stable for that last extra .59% lol. Then i'm gonna reach out to companies for a job/career in this industry because i'll have achieved something that no one else has and I know the value of a configuration/product that can be sold to consumers for profit and used on a daily basis(yeah yeah, not all imcs can handle this config we already know but that never stopped a company from selling a highend ram kit before). If they don't offer me employment then i'm done. I'm unemployed, nobody is hiring, all outta money, in debt, need healthcare/medical care/dental care and I've got enough food to last a couple more weeks. After my food supply is exhausted, i'm heading to a homeless shelter because I can no longer afford life in america, can't afford to leave and have nothing else to live for. 

How much longer do I need to leave it in karhu? What else do I need to do to swing some heads/eyes in my direction? What do I need to do?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

its too short of a time... you can get into issues on even p95 (not that i recommends using prime95 anyway) and you dont even know why... i go in steps HCI for me is the GOLDEN one.. i started trying now the new anta777 as im not testing ram all the time the anta777 1 cycle (bcuz of density) takes to little time to even warm up the kits and thats on 64gb worth of ram 44min of tests in just 16gb and your ram is throwing errors?? there is something fishy and it aint the program... i did the 3 cycles and nothing happen is good for quick runs tho not going to argue in that better than musmusv3 and is free.

I bet you any of your guys test i will crash in a heart beat... thats why i go in steps... and thats why i disagreed in suicide benches and quick tests


----------



## zGunBLADEz

you guys want to see nasty? this is nasty  and is stable so why i would be jealous??


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> you guys want to see nasty? this is nasty  and is stable so why i would be jealous??


This is my settings on my workstation. Stable for me, because I used the same settings in 2,5 years LOL


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> This is my settings on my workstation. Stable for me, because I used the same settings in 2,5 years LOL


thats why you were asking my settings right XD


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> you guys want to see nasty? this is nasty  and is stable so why i would be jealous??


But is it Battlefield V multiplayer stable for 2-3 hours? That is the question


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> you guys want to see nasty? this is nasty /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif and is stable so why i would be jealous??
> 
> 
> 
> But is it Battlefield V multiplayer stable for 2-3 hours? That is the question /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Click to expand...

I have multiple long runs like that with different apps. I do ramtest first then hci but ramtest more often than hci.. I dont do one test... i dial test dial some more and test and dial till the hci run when im cool with it.. Bfv aint crap in the end xD

With this 64gb kit i have ufffff the last couple of days i tested more time than all the test that are been posted the last 10pages put together.... 


been notching some timings then after that is just scraps..
I have couple of anta777 extremes 1 cycle and 3 cycles runs with no errors then ramtest notch some crap do 1 cycle of ollie anta777 extreme back to back when sticks are hot and taking it xD



this is a stress test topic not 3dmark xD then you wonder why people are ocping power supply's and dont know why "lol" and such and new people cant get their stuff stable xD

btw
the 1t cmd failed not even in the 100% on ramtest XD typical for the 16gb sticks specially 4 of them


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

From my experiences in the past, BFV stability is just sometimes needing extra IO/SA. But if you already know the range of what is required from previous testing on the same hardware in bfV after stress tests, its a moot point because you already know how much extra it needs and just throw on top from the start. I can already run bfv, mw2, bf2 no issue. I can even record it.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

XD i aint lying lol all that before the grand daddy hci lol

https://ibb.co/album/sJNh46


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

i got 4x8GB z390 [email protected] 10,000% karhu error free on video(i think some people suspect photoshop cheat so I will provide full tamperproof video evidence) showing my thermostat temperature, thermostat set temperature, my entire rig, cardboard cooling vent going from central air to the cpu tower and computer screen while karhu running, showed that cache was enabled too. Is this good enough yet? I'm pulling upwards of 100 amps at about 1.385v vrout. Is this good enough yet? I even open up atc while karhu is running to show timings. Is this good enough yet? It's running as I type this. can i stop the test now? I really don't like running long term test like this when i'm WELL PAST INTEL SPEC. Is this good enough for everyone to respect my result now? Can I upload the video to youtube now? Is this good enough yet? When will I be good enough? Can i please stop this test now and upload the footage to youtube??


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Read, write and copy seem pretty high for a 4400MHz but latency seems the trade off
> These sticks are at their frequency limit but got down to cl16
> Not sure if it's because of the new platform but my BFV kd seems to have gone up
> Maybe it's smoother....
> 1080ti 3440*1440 120Hz
> Getting ~120fps all low settings


Hi,

I got my 3600C16 DR bdie today, still tweaking the timings


----------



## nick name

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Hi,
> 
> I got my 3600C16 DR bdie today, still tweaking the timings


What voltage do you need on the DRAM for that setup?


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Hi,
> 
> I got my 3600C16 DR bdie today, still tweaking the timings


Very nice :thumb:
I'll be happy if I can get anywhere near that 
Which sticks are they?
Cheers


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

*#1 ambient memtest stable Z390 4x8GB Configuration Worldwide
[email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T 9900K 5.25ghz 8c/8t z390 aorus master Karhu - 10,000% VIDEO VALIDATION - Best case scenario benchmark in signature(if you want me to video that too I will)


AM I GOOD ENOUGH YET TO WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY? *


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> *#1 ambient memtest stable Z390 4x8GB Configuration Worldwide
> [email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T 9900K 5.25ghz 8c/8t z390 aorus master Karhu - 10,000% VIDEO VALIDATION - Best case scenario benchmark in signature(if you want me to video that too I will)
> 
> 
> AM I GOOD ENOUGH YET TO WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY? *
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V6aKTDDPH8


Why the video? Do folks not trust screenshots?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> Why the video? Do folks not trust screenshots?



as soon as i posted my 6,400% karhu stable tests on hwbot.org yesterday, someone pops up a thread directly above mine talking bout fake maxmemm aida benches or some****. So it felt was pretty obvious they were trying to call me out without directly calling me out because they didn't want to feel stoopid if they were wrong. I then welcomed a moderator to look over the screenshots. To cast away any doubt at all, I decided to video a second test at a longer duration. If this ain't good enough then they should delete the entire thread here because I tested longer than most users here.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Very nice :thumb:
> I'll be happy if I can get anywhere near that
> Which sticks are they?
> Cheers


3600C16D-32GTZN. Somebody has already reached 4700C16 with this kit.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

nick name said:


> What voltage do you need on the DRAM for that setup?


Currently VDimm 1.52, IO 1.35, SA 1.33, still tweaking.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3600C16D-32GTZN. Somebody has already reached 4700C16 with this kit.



on an apex?


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> on an apex?


High speed is easy with cold water


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> High speed is easy with cold water



70F isn't cold. It's not even enough to form moisture or condensation or whatever lol. Show me something on z390 4x8gb motherboard supplier. I hate being #1, i need a challenge. Lets battle


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> 70F isn't cold. It's not even enough to form moisture or condensation or whatever lol. Show me something on z390 4x8gb motherboard supplier. I hate being #1, i need a challenge.


z390 is too old for me. I'm borrowing away my z390 Apex to my friend. Now it's all about z490. Testing memoryspeeds with MSI z490 unify itx and z490 Apex atm. 

Msi z490 unify itx is one smal bad ass MB


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

XGS-Duplicity said:


> on an apex?


Yup...But just boot into Windows, no stability test yet.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> z390 is too old for me. I'm borrowing away my z390 Apex to my friend. Now it's all about z490. Testing memoryspeeds with MSI z490 unify itx and z490 Apex atm.
> 
> Msi z490 unify itx is one smal bad ass MB



EHhhhh i saw buildzoids unify video already. You get 5k on z490 apex yet? The bioses are improving quickly since i made that latency comparison awhile back . would you agree, that perhaps i do things that may sound bad or annoy people, for the greater good?  Like pit products/chipsets against eachother to force improvements faster just like an employer would pit employees against eachother to squeeze more work out of them. Shamino does good work.


----------



## Nizzen

Boot into windows? Z390 Apex power with "garbage" Viper 4400c19


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup...But just boot into Windows, no stability test yet.



All good, one step at a time. no hate here. Just wish I had a z390 apex ROFL


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> Boot into windows? Z390 Apex power with "garbage" Viper 4400c19



o cmon how many damn kits did you need to bin for that? Great job though, for real. Don't worry, my ego isn't too big that I wouldn't respect you guys, because I definitely do, regardless of the mouthing off every now and then


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> o cmon how many damn kits did you need to bin for that? Great job though, for real. Don't worry, my ego isn't too big that I wouldn't respect you guys, because I definitely do, regardless of the mouthing off every now and then


"a few"


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> "a few"



hey don't get me excited with that cl15 4400, not until you pass karhu 10,000% . unfortunately c15 4400 is out of the question for my sticks on this board. I think cl16 4400 *MIGHT* be doable though.


----------



## Nizzen

XGS-Duplicity said:


> hey don't get me excited with that cl15 4400, not until you pass karhu 10,000%


No time LOL

I don't have that fetish


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Nizzen said:


> No time LOL
> 
> I don't have that fetish



o boy what did i sign up for lol


----------



## nick name

Are you Intel guys familiar with Ryzen usually requiring 14-15-14-14 (I understand that Intel sets both tRCD the same)? So I know the speed isn't impressive, but doing straight 14s or 14-13-13-13 with anything but the best b-die kits is usually unexpected. This new G.Skill 4400C19 is very impressive so far. 

What's frustrating is that this kit does 4400MHz 16-18-16-16 with the secondary and subs pictured below at 1.6V and it seems that you Intel guys can run that at closer to 1.5V. While I enjoy Ryzen I do oh so envy you Intel guys. 

I highly recommend the G.Skill 4400C19 kit.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3600C16D-32GTZN. Somebody has already reached 4700C16 with this kit.


It certainly makes 2*16GB look good
How does it compare to what people can get with 4*8GB best case?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> It certainly makes 2*16GB look good
> How does it compare to what people can get with 4*8GB best case?


which chipset?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> It certainly makes 2*16GB look good
> How does it compare to what people can get with 4*8GB best case?


2*16 DR is certainly better on Z490 than on Z390. It seems that Asus has not started to improve SR bdie on M12 boards.


----------



## nick name

And I know I'm a tourist here so thank y'all for tolerating my presence. There isn't high speed RAM testing on the Ryzen side because of the latency penalty beyond IF speed 1:1. I appreciate you guys tolerating me.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

nick name said:


> And I know I'm a tourist here so thank y'all for tolerating my presence. There isn't high speed RAM testing on the Ryzen side because of the latency penalty beyond IF speed 1:1. I appreciate you guys tolerating me.


Maybe try 4750G? IF=2200 ez


----------



## nick name

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Maybe try 4750G? IF=2200 ez


Oh man. I'd love that.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

They truly know how to motivate me lol. It's a love hate relationship.


This just trained on first attempt. No cardboard contraption hooked up.


You guys think there is any shot that this could be stabilized and optimized? I left all tertiary on auto but trefi and left tWTR_S/L on auto. Didn't really expect this to train at all. I didn't optimize for the bench, just ran it as soon as windows loaded.


What should I do first aside from fix tfaw?(on autopilot totally forgot to change it to 24). errr actually, i have an idea. nm i'll figure out. TIME TO PROVE MY WORTH...AGAIN....UGH.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> And I know I'm a tourist here so thank y'all for tolerating my presence. There isn't high speed RAM testing on the Ryzen side because of the latency penalty beyond IF speed 1:1. I appreciate you guys tolerating me.


 we already know why. It's just playful ribbing in the intel 7nm delay thread, we aren't serious or at least i'm not. I just figured i'd take a stab at it since everyone else was . perhaps i hit the jugular by mistake? In all seriousness though, who cares which side anyone chooses at this point. I think the whole amd vs intel media narrative is bit played out now. It's the same story being parroted around the web. We get it. Amd has some value chips and intel has some performance chips. I just prefer intel because they are more of a toy imo.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

nick name said:


> Are you Intel guys familiar with Ryzen usually requiring 14-15-14-14 (I understand that Intel sets both tRCD the same)? So I know the speed isn't impressive, but doing straight 14s or 14-13-13-13 with anything but the best b-die kits is usually unexpected. This new G.Skill 4400C19 is very impressive so far.
> 
> What's frustrating is that this kit does 4400MHz 16-18-16-16 with the secondary and subs pictured below at 1.6V and it seems that you Intel guys can run that at closer to 1.5V. While I enjoy Ryzen I do oh so envy you Intel guys.
> 
> I highly recommend the G.Skill 4400C19 kit.


You shouldnt. Overcloking memory is the best on amd ryzen platforn. I love it... You can do many stuff on there that you cant do on intel..


----------



## cstkl1

XGS-Duplicity said:


> What's an adequate proper test run on Karhu for a system that only games? I figure 6,400% is good because about 99.41% detection rate according to the karhu faq. If i wanted to do 100% detection rate just to fend off any doubters/haters, how much longer do I leave my memory OC in karhu for? They don't show a percentage number or time length for 100% detection in the karhu faq. I'm a little weary about running the 4x8gb c15-4266 under full memtest load long duration because the amount of dram volts i'm using and heavy vcore(way past intel spec). Any chance anyone might know the minimum coverage for 100%? I'm confident it will pass, but I'd like to squash any doubts anyone might have right away.
> 
> 
> Here is karhu error detection rates for reference:
> 
> 
> Coverage ≤ 100 %: 64,57 %
> Coverage ≤ 200 %: 75,79 %
> Coverage ≤ 400 %: 82,68 %
> Coverage ≤ 800 %: 91,34 %
> Coverage ≤ 1600 %: 96,06 %
> Coverage ≤ 3200 %: 98,03 %
> Coverage ≤ 6400 %: 99,41 %
> 
> The 1.5% jump from 98% to 99.41% needed 50% more test duration. Is 10,000% error free enough to satisfy the jelly haters? It's more than 50% increase in test duration from 99.41% to get the last .59%. Is that good enough? lol I'd like to quickly squash any doubts right away. I'll run it again if need be, prove its stable for that last extra .59% lol. Then i'm gonna reach out to companies for a job/career in this industry because i'll have achieved something that no one else has and I know the value of a configuration/product that can be sold to consumers for profit and used on a daily basis(yeah yeah, not all imcs can handle this config we already know but that never stopped a company from selling a highend ram kit before). If they don't offer me employment then i'm done. I'm unemployed, nobody is hiring, all outta money, in debt, need healthcare/medical care/dental care and I've got enough food to last a couple more weeks. After my food supply is exhausted, i'm heading to a homeless shelter because I can no longer afford life in america, can't afford to leave and have nothing else to live for.
> 
> How much longer do I need to leave it in karhu? What else do I need to do to swing some heads/eyes in my direction? What do I need to do?


then run gsat. the gentle ram tester.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

cstkl1 said:


> then run gsat. the gentle ram tester.



i don't use google services. thanks anyway. 10,000% karhu is good enough for me.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> i don't use google services. thanks anyway. 10,000% karhu is good enough for me.


GSAT is good as a supplemental test. It picks up errors that RAM specific tests don't. I've passed TM5 and Memtest and failed GSAT


----------



## Betroz

XGS-Duplicity said:


> i don't use google services.


GSAT is free, and it's a Linux program.


----------



## cstkl1

XGS-Duplicity said:


> i don't use google services. thanks anyway. 10,000% karhu is good enough for me.


if u want recognition
industry standard hci. 
most use runmemtestpro as a launcher cause of its features. heck stress the imc and windows while you are at it.. run 32-64 instances.. 

other than this. whatever you use.. its only your own personal achievement dat nobody will look twice.


----------



## munternet

Somebody was after a newer TurboV_Core
*TurboV_Core_1.05.06.7z*
It came with the M12A CD
There are a bunch of extra settings so I don't know which boards it will work with


----------



## ViTosS

Where can I get that ''RunMemTestPro 4.5'' software? I have the paid version of HCI MemTest but never saw where to download that from their website.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Where can I get that ''RunMemTestPro 4.5'' software? I have the paid version of HCI MemTest but never saw where to download that from their website.


https://translate.google.com/transl...6%A9%9F%E7%89%88%E6%9C%AC&prev=search&pto=aue


----------



## Betroz

ViTosS said:


> Where can I get that ''RunMemTestPro 4.5'' software? I have the paid version of HCI MemTest but never saw where to download that from their website.


If you have a newer version av HCI MemtestPRO, you don't need ''RunMemTestPro". Version 7 of HCI have a nice gui itself :


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> https://translate.google.com/transl...6%A9%9F%E7%89%88%E6%9C%AC&prev=search&pto=aue


Thanks!


Betroz said:


> If you have a newer version av HCI MemtestPRO, you don't need ''RunMemTestPro". Version 7 of HCI have a nice gui itself :


Yeah I just wanted to see the options that version has, I saw ''time left'' in some screenshots of the program running and maybe I can set the timer to run the stress test and that would be very good for me. Even knowing MemTestPro 7.0 has a command line you can set the % coverage.


----------



## nick name

zGunBLADEz said:


> You shouldnt. Overcloking memory is the best on amd ryzen platforn. I love it... You can do many stuff on there that you cant do on intel..


I wish we could adjust tREFI on AMD.


----------



## opt33

yeah memtest pro 7.0 is only $5, I bought it just for ease of it and gui. Just get email version if getting it. 
https://hcidesign.com/memtest/purchase.html


----------



## Betroz

opt33 said:


> yeah memtest pro 7.0 is only $5, I bought it just for ease of it and gui. Just get email version if getting it.
> https://hcidesign.com/memtest/purchase.html


Yes it is worth $5 for sure!


----------



## cstkl1

Lol hci gui. 
Only ppl that have to use that is gigabyte.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Betroz said:


> GSAT is free, and it's a Linux program.


google receives information on the user everytime that program is used. I don't want them having information from me. Especially not for free. nobody knows what they do with it or what their intentions are. I'd rather not participate in that.


----------



## Betroz

XGS-Duplicity said:


> google receives information on the user everytime that program is used.


And how do you know that? If GSAT has any telemetry in it, that is news to me. But using Windows 10 is okay to you? 
If you value your privacy that much, don't use the internet, cause EVERYTHING you do online can be monitored by the powers that should not be.

End of off topic...


----------



## skullbringer

can't get it rock solid stable, there is always an error every ~250%. max temp during this run was 37C for both modules

any ideas? maybe anything obvious I'm missing?


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> any ideas? maybe anything obvious I'm missing?


Too tight IOL?


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> Too tight IOL?


no, doesn't matter. 14-14 has same stability


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> can't get it rock solid stable, there is always an error every ~250%. max temp during this run was 37C for both modules
> 
> any ideas? maybe anything obvious I'm missing?


Maybe try these numbers, just for s&g
16
320
6
4
8
4
8
16
16


----------



## opt33

cstkl1 said:


> Lol hci gui.
> Only ppl that have to use that is gigabyte.


if you are using memtest pro 4.5 gui for hci, I dont understand the complaint about using memtest pro 7.0 gui, both guis avoid need for starting 16 versions of free gui. Unless you prefer to use boot drive via DOS, like I run GSAT.

However, the hate on the gigabyte board I fully understand and owning it myself, you couldnt hate it as much as i do. When next significant cpu upgrade arrives Im done with GB mobos.


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> Maybe try these numbers, just for s&g
> 16
> 320
> 6
> 4
> 8
> 4
> 8
> 16
> 16


like that?

loser timings seem to be even less stable, as weird as it sounds 

also IOLs/RTLs auto


----------



## Betroz

@skullbringer : Try to lower your Ring to X48 to see if that helps.


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> like that?
> 
> loser timings seem to be even less stable, as weird as it sounds
> 
> also IOLs/RTLs auto


It was just a stab in the dark really. Those numbers seem to align well in many situations
You obviously have more experience than many at the higher ram frequencies


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> It was just a stab in the dark really. Those numbers seem to align well in many situations
> You obviously have more experience than many at the higher ram frequencies



I try those values with teritary on auto for z390 aorus master 4x8GB 16-17-17-37-2T tRC-53 4500mhz 5.2ghz cores 4.5ghz cache 8c/8t acdc-1 vcore llc-high offset +150mv or +160mv 1.6v vdimm io/sa on auto, gives about 1.4v io and about 1.41vsa or around there, manual entered 60/60/60/60/40/40 rtt resistances and 4500+ memory enhancement preset. Call of duty opens but crashes either during server login or as soon as i get to multiplayer screen. Get either dev error 5264 or something or MP disk read error. air condition is off, aio liquid temps around 28c-29c. Will it improve stability if I blast the air conditioning? Does using all the nvme drive bays and some of the sata bays have an affect on any of this? What about irst drivers? I don't have any irst drivers installed in windows or anything, just using ahci mode in bios. should i go back up to 1.65v vdimm? I tried with 99% windows balanced(3.6-5.2) and also with maximum performance (5.2 hardlock). +150mv offset is 50mv extra than required for 5.2ghz 8c/8t, but last I recall i needed +150mv offset for ram at 4266+ at any cas. not sure where to go from here.


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> It was just a stab in the dark really. Those numbers seem to align well in many situations
> You obviously have more experience than many at the higher ram frequencies


no worries man, I've fiddled with this for too long and I'm grateful for any input at this point, so thanks 



Betroz said:


> @skullbringer : Try to lower your Ring to X48 to see if that helps.


set tertiaries back to initial post, lowered ring like you suggested and core multiplier just to be sure, same voltages. max temps this test were 39 C with a fan blasting at the sticks. 

the weird thing is, this behavior is the exact same at 4666, 4700 and 4800. 4600 is perfectly stable, even without active cooling and module temps of 50 C, but anything higher is just categorically noping out. 

can't make sense of it


----------



## SuperMumrik

skullbringer said:


> munternet said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a stab in the dark really. Those numbers seem to align well in many situations
> You obviously have more experience than many at the higher ram frequencies /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> no worries man, I've fiddled with this for too long and I'm grateful for any input at this point, so thanks /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Betroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> @skullbringer : Try to lower your Ring to X48 to see if that helps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> set tertiaries back to initial post, lowered ring like you suggested and core multiplier just to be sure, same voltages. max temps this test were 39 C with a fan blasting at the sticks.
> 
> the weird thing is, this behavior is the exact same at 4666, 4700 and 4800. 4600 is perfectly stable, even without active cooling and module temps of 50 C, but anything higher is just categorically noping out.
> 
> can't make sense of it
Click to expand...

IO/SA?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

hmmm perhaps ambient could be playing a role i dunno. It's not hot enough outside right now for the home owner to justify putting the air conditioning back on so i supposed further testing will have to be conducted at another time.


----------



## itssladenlol

Hello guys, 

Could need some help. 
Deciding between:

G skill 4400 cl18 1,4v or g skill 4600 cl18 1,45v for overclocking.

Would run them at 1,5 and see how far i can get.
Which of the two Kits is the better choice?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> no worries man, I've fiddled with this for too long and I'm grateful for any input at this point, so thanks
> 
> 
> 
> set tertiaries back to initial post, lowered ring like you suggested and core multiplier just to be sure, same voltages. max temps this test were 39 C with a fan blasting at the sticks.
> 
> the weird thing is, this behavior is the exact same at 4666, 4700 and 4800. 4600 is perfectly stable, even without active cooling and module temps of 50 C, but anything higher is just categorically noping out.
> 
> can't make sense of it


Me too. I am feeling like it might be caused by improper RTL/IOL training.


----------



## cstkl1

opt33 said:


> if you are using memtest pro 4.5 gui for hci, I dont understand the complaint about using memtest pro 7.0 gui, both guis avoid need for starting 16 versions of free gui. Unless you prefer to use boot drive via DOS, like I run GSAT.
> 
> However, the hate on the gigabyte board I fully understand and owning it myself, you couldnt hate it as much as i do. When next significant cpu upgrade arrives Im done with GB mobos.


guess you dont run alot of hci..
just this month lets see think i did around 7 hrs a day..

and you dont know what happens when you run that launcher on giga. ocn ppl i guess alot are clueless what happen with giga fae.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Me too. I am feeling like it might be caused by improper RTL/IOL training.


just visit safedisk fb.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

cstkl1 said:


> just visit safedisk fb.



Can someone screenshot the information and post it here that way facebook only gets to track one user instead of several?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

I booted 16-17-17-37-2T @ 4500 with 4500+ preset and manual secondaries with tertiary on auto, 60/60/60/60/40/40 but disabled xmp and set sa/io manual to 1.4v each, 1.6v vdimm. What difference does xmp vs non xmp make when timings/voltages are set manually?


----------



## cstkl1

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Can someone screenshot the information and post it here that way facebook only gets to track one user instead of several?


No sacrifice no victory. 

Also daisy chain rtl diff than topo


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

cstkl1 said:


> No sacrifice no victory.



No worries I understand.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Is this any good? What can I improve?

It's this kit: https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232675?Item=N82E16820232675


----------



## nick name

KaRLiToS said:


> Is this any good? What can I improve?
> 
> It's this kit: https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232675?Item=N82E16820232675
> 
> -snip-



It kinda seems like you left quite a few things on Auto. Did you?


----------



## KaRLiToS

nick name said:


> It kinda seems like you left quite a few things on Auto. Did you?


Indeed. Everything is auto except the 16-16-16-35. I usually don't tweak memory that much.

What can I change?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

KaRLiToS said:


> Indeed. Everything is auto except the 16-16-16-35. I usually don't tweak memory that much.
> 
> What can I change?



That's a GREAT ram kit btw. That's the kit i used for the configuration in my signature. It's a ton of fun and very versatile. Bought this kit at the recommendation of buildzoid in one of his older ram recommendation videos when I was building my PC. If you are looking for some tips on timings, there are some resources on the first page of this thread. There is also a pretty good ddr4 guide on github.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Is the error at 3 minutes exactly related to not being able to take full advantage of turbo tvb or w/e? Air conditioning was on at first and i had the cardboard box hooked up but then the homeowner turned it off shortly after I started the test><. 3 minutes is the furthest i've made it so far. c16-4500 is definitely a no go but c17 4500 might be possible EDIT:nm i'll figure it out


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Me too. I am feeling like it might be caused by improper RTL/IOL training.


I've never seen "too tight" RTL/IOL cause instability, either it trains and is fine, or it ends in qcode 55.

Also I have set all RTL/IOL settings to auto in last 2 screenshots


----------



## munternet

Killed my OS again trying to mix it up with the big boys 
So glad I made the backup drive with Acronis
3 1/2 minutes to reinstate 200GB this time as opposed to the 2 days it took earlier in the week to get windows loaded and download and install all the software and games
The M.2 Drives get pretty warm


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> Killed my OS again trying to mix it up with the big boys
> So glad I made the backup drive with Acronis
> 3 1/2 minutes to reinstate 200GB this time as opposed to the 2 days it took earlier in the week to get windows loaded and download and install all the software and games
> The M.2 Drives get pretty warm


I've learned that the hard way, too. Meanwhile I have a separate SSD with an extra Windows install just for memory OC, I unplug all other drives to avoid fs corruption and I have usb sticks ready with windows install media and 20GB of needed drivers and utilities in case I need to reset.


----------



## JoeRambo

I am using Marcium Reflect boot USB and restore data from network NAS. Might need to upgrade to 2.5Gbit/s LAN, but given how well MSI Z490 Unify handled the memory overclock, might not be needed. First time ever not destroying BIOS/Windows and i've tried real hard 


BTW Windows corruption is not that bad, on Z370 i had BIOS corruption that persisted after CMOS clear and only reflash helped. I think with some bad random luck it would be possible to destroy something critical and after that recovery is possible with dual bios / "flashback usb port".


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Riddle me this. What makes a ram kit prefer 280 trfc and trrd_L 4 instead of 320 trfc and trrd_L 6? no air conditioning, ambient is 80F, just played some starcraft no crashing. earlier it was crashing with 320 trfc and trrd_l 6 with the air conditioning blasting/cardboard box. 4500mhz 17-18-18-38-2t secondaries set, tertiaries on auto for now till i figure out range for 4500. 1.6v vdimm 1.4v sa/io. I assumed slightly looser timings would result in better stability but right now it seems the opposite when ambient conditions are worse. Can someone shed some light on why it works like this please? not complaining about it, just want to understand the technology better. (no other differences in timings or volts or anything btw, just trfc and trrd_L)


----------



## JoeRambo

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Riddle me this. What makes a ram kit prefer 280 trfc and trrd_L 4 instead of 320 trfc and trrd_L 6? no air conditioning, ambient is 80F, just played some starcraft no crashing. earlier it was crashing with 320 trfc and trrd_l 6 with the air conditioning blasting/cardboard box. 4500mhz 17-18-18-38-2t secondaries set, tertiaries on auto for now till i figure out range for 4500. 1.6v vdimm 1.4v sa/io. I assumed slightly looser timings would result in better stability but right now it seems the opposite when ambient conditions are worse. Can someone shed some light on this please?



Just food for thought about how BIOS and memory training operates:


Yesterday i did Z490 Unify and reentered my memory OC. During stability testing it started spewing errors in GSAT while it was stable before. I fired up Asrock timing tool to check IOL and what not and they all looked just fine: typical 58/58/60/60 stuff i had before.
Must be new BIOS huh? But then I saw IT: tRDWR was set to 1 ( ONE ), instead of 11.


And then it all connected to me, GSAT memory speed 10GB/s lower than what it was before, errors during testing. After a trip to BIOS to fix it, everything is fine and dandy again.


That can only mean BIOS was correcting my obviously incorrect value ( just like tFAW has minimum of 16 and gets corrected if you enter less ). And in the process of correction obviously "copy" performance was destroyed ( makes sense cause it is RD -> WR delay ). What is not obvious, that same correction has thrown off stability of memory OC, even if all what was visible in Windows was just fine ( i have screenshots and photos of bios in phone ). And it is definately specific to MB vendor/MB/BIOS version, cause i can't get fixed IOLs on my mobo to this day 



P.S. That might not apply to your case cause once trf and tRefi are no longer "enough" random errors will happen.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

JoeRambo said:


> Just food for thought about how BIOS and memory training operates:
> 
> 
> Yesterday i did Z490 Unify and reentered my memory OC. During stability testing it started spewing errors in GSAT while it was stable before. I fired up Asrock timing tool to check IOL and what not and they all looked just fine: typical 58/58/60/60 stuff i had before.
> Must be new BIOS huh? But then I saw IT: tRDWR was set to 1 ( ONE ), instead of 11.
> 
> 
> And then it all connected to me, GSAT memory speed 10GB/s lower than what it was before, errors during testing. After a trip to BIOS to fix it, everything is fine and dandy again.
> 
> 
> That can only mean BIOS was correcting my obviously incorrect value ( just like tFAW has minimum of 16 and gets corrected if you enter less ). And in the process of correction obviously "copy" performance was destroyed ( makes sense cause it is RD -> WR delay ). What is not obvious, that same correction has thrown off stability of memory OC, even if all what was visible in Windows was just fine ( i have screenshots and photos of bios in phone ). And it is definately specific to MB vendor/MB/BIOS version, cause i can't get fixed IOLs on my mobo to this day
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. That might not apply to your case cause once trf and tRefi are no longer "enough" random errors will happen.





hmmmmmm. SO basically anytime something gets corrected, its gonna be unstable anyway? 

Have you tried getting your imc really cold to get fixed iols?


----------



## reflex75

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Riddle me this. What makes a ram kit prefer 280 trfc and trrd_L 4 instead of 320 trfc and trrd_L 6? no air conditioning, ambient is 80F, just played some starcraft no crashing. earlier it was crashing with 320 trfc and trrd_l 6 with the air conditioning blasting/cardboard box. 4500mhz 17-18-18-38-2t secondaries set, tertiaries on auto for now till i figure out range for 4500. 1.6v vdimm 1.4v sa/io. I assumed slightly looser timings would result in better stability but right now it seems the opposite when ambient conditions are worse. Can someone shed some light on why it works like this please? not complaining about it, just want to understand the technology better. (no other differences in timings or volts or anything btw, just trfc and trrd_L)


If you have left some timings on auto, and enabled memory training on boot, then changing one value can modify other automatic timings by the training algorithm on boot depending on CPU-MB-RAM and external conditions at the moment of the training during boot, like temperature...


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

reflex75 said:


> If you have left some timings on auto, and enabled memory training on boot, then changing one value can modify other automatic timings by the training algorithm on boot depending on CPU-MB-RAM and external conditions at the moment of the training during boot, like temperature...


I don't have memory training enabled on boot. I train it once and then it defaults to memory fastboot enabled. I think my kit just might like lower timings. My kit can't do 15-15-15-33/34/35/36, but it can do 15-15-15-32.


----------



## skullbringer

SuperMumrik said:


> IO/SA?


1.45V IO and 1.65V SA, should not be a bottleneck

also does anyone know what's the difference between memory training profiles "Standard" and "Asus" (Apex)?


----------



## cstkl1

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Riddle me this. What makes a ram kit prefer 280 trfc and trrd_L 4 instead of 320 trfc and trrd_L 6? no air conditioning, ambient is 80F, just played some starcraft no crashing. earlier it was crashing with 320 trfc and trrd_l 6 with the air conditioning blasting/cardboard box. 4500mhz 17-18-18-38-2t secondaries set, tertiaries on auto for now till i figure out range for 4500. 1.6v vdimm 1.4v sa/io. I assumed slightly looser timings would result in better stability but right now it seems the opposite when ambient conditions are worse. Can someone shed some light on why it works like this please? not complaining about it, just want to understand the technology better. (no other differences in timings or volts or anything btw, just trfc and trrd_L)


why do u need so high vdimm. 
afaik t-topology 2dimm vs 4 about equal.. 
it should be in the region of 1.5v..

bdies work best closer you are to its jdec. loose actuallt makes it worse.


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> 1.45V IO and 1.65V SA, should not be a bottleneck
> 
> also does anyone know what's the difference between memory training profiles "Standard" and "Asus" (Apex)?


all u can tell ya. if you use asus. instant FFT112 error even on low ram clock. so i am guessing its some quick training for showing off aida high ram clock. its does not assist in stability. so it must be a set if training to assist in booting.


----------



## cstkl1

XGS-Duplicity said:


> hmmmmmm. SO basically anytime something gets corrected, its gonna be unstable anyway?
> 
> Have you tried getting your imc really cold to get fixed iols?


u actually dont need a fixed rtl/iol

adjust with
init rtl
init iol 
iol offset.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> why do u need so high vdimm.
> afaik t-topology 2dimm vs 4 about equal..
> it should be in the region of 1.5v..
> 
> bdies work best closer you are to its jdec. loose actuallt makes it worse.


Well my b-die Vipers need closer to 1.6 VDIMM for them to be stable/error free with my settings so...what can U do.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> I've never seen "too tight" RTL/IOL cause instability, either it trains and is fine, or it ends in qcode 55.
> 
> Also I have set all RTL/IOL settings to auto in last 2 screenshots


tighter and looser will all cause code 55


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> tighter and looser will all cause code 55


right, but 55 is not "instability", 55 means failed boot/training.

When I talk about "instability" I mean after boot, in Windows, when running a memtest like hci or karhu and I get errors or bsod.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

bios set 1.6v vdimm, but hwinfo shows motherboard feeding 1.608v-1.636v. 
[email protected] needs 1.45v vdimm bios set
in theory, every extra 100mhz is 50mv more for this specific kit on this motherboard with this chip
1.5v=4300
1.55v=4400
1.6v=4500

I would do 4300 or 4400 at lower cas than c17 since c15-4266 is still faster latency wise than c17 4500 but they don't train no matter what at any cas/timings/voltage. So i either go c15-4266 like my signature or try to stabilize c17 4500 for maximum frequency and exceed original 2018 or 2019 motherboard advertised memory OC spec like gosu.




I just wake up, i'm foggy still. @*ENTERPRISE* how come my signature is not showing up anymore when i post? nvm, now it is showing up on the post below this one. sorry for false alarm, i don't know why that happens.


----------



## skullbringer

XGS-Duplicity said:


> bios set 1.6v vdimm, but hwinfo shows motherboard feeding 1.608v-1.636v.
> [email protected] needs 1.45v vdimm bios set
> every extra 100mhz is 50mv more for this kit on this motherboard with this chip
> 1.5v=4300
> 1.55v=4400
> 1.6v=4500
> 
> I would do 4300 or 4400 at lower cas than c17 but they don't train no matter what at any cas. So i either go c15-4266 like my signature or try to stabilize c17 4500 for maximum frequency and exceed motherboard advertised memory OC spec like gosu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just wake up, i'm foggy still. @*ENTERPRISE* how come my signature is not showing up anymore when i post?



have you tried setting VTT DDR fixed at 1.45V / 2 = 0.725V while raising Vdimm to e.g. 1.5V for 4300?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

skullbringer said:


> have you tried setting VTT DDR fixed at 1.45V / 2 = 0.725V while raising Vdimm to e.g. 1.5V for 4300?



This kit does not like having vtt adjusted on this board with my chip. Even at previous frequencies I stabilize, if I set manual to a value that is shown in windows if it was left on auto, it won't be stable, so i must leave it on auto. Also must realize that this is kit is not as high of a bin as new gskill 4400 17-18-18-38-2t 1.5v/vdimm kit. It's 50mv behind at least. based on my voltage scaling predictions, it's scaling exactly 50mv behind when timings tightened. New gskill 4400 17-18-18-38-2T 1.5v/vdimm will be able to do same timings @ 1.55v for 4500 and 4600 at 1.55v. On apex/dark/gene, voltage scaling is different because less travel time/shorter distance to cpu from memory socket. Less travel time/shorter distance = less voltage to power.


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> have you tried setting VTT DDR fixed at 1.45V / 2 = 0.725V while raising Vdimm to e.g. 1.5V for 4300?


Is there an advantage to dropping it lower than Auto would have it? I've heard of folks setting it higher, but not lower.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

nick name said:


> Is there an advantage to dropping it lower than Auto would have it? I've heard of folks setting it higher, but not lower.



I have tried dropping it under the value that auto sets, i've tried matching the value that auto sets and i've tried setting slightly higher than the value that auto sets for past overclocks, not once have i been successful with stability setting it manually. only auto works for me. THe advtange is so that you don't require as much vdimm if i recall correctly, but unfortunately anytime it is set manually on my board with this chip and kit, it is not stable so i must leave it on auto. I could not even begin to tell you why, maybe motherboard manufacturer or stasio gigabyte bios engineer can shed light on that. Perhaps that's the reason this kit is not on the QVL list for the z390 aorus master. Or it could be my chip, who knows. i'm not willing to test anymore of their beta bioses or newer bioses to find out if manual vtt works either, i waste enough time testing their bioses in the past with no gains, no more free guinea pig for gigabyte. If they want me to try another bios, they are going to have to show me proof of concept that it actually does what I need it to do.


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I have tried dropping it under the value that auto sets, i've tried matching the value that auto sets and i've tried setting slightly higher than the value that auto sets for past overclocks, not once have i been successful with stability setting it manually. only auto works for me. THe advtange is so that you don't require as much vdimm if i recall correctly, but unfortunately anytime it is set manually on my board with this chip and kit, it is not stable so i must leave it on auto. I could not even begin to tell you why, maybe motherboard manufacturer or stasio gigabyte bios engineer can shed light on that. i'm not willing to test anymore of their beta bioses or newer bioses to find out either, no more free guinea pig.


Yeah, my experience has been the same. I've sat in Windows running tests while adjusting with TurboV and I can't report any success. 

And I love when ASUS throws a beta our way. But I'm the type of person that loves to play with settings. Heck, I have a shortcut to boot into BIOS because I'm in there so often.


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> Yeah, my experience has been the same. I've sat in Windows running tests while adjusting with TurboV and I can't report any success.
> 
> And I love when ASUS throws a beta our way. But I'm the type of person that loves to play with settings. Heck, I have a shortcut to boot into BIOS because I'm in there so often.


I think vtt ddr is needed in training, so setting it in windows is not a good idea, you need to set it in bios and retrain.

but yeah, not all kits and all boards like it.

BUT how you get that "boot to bios" shortcut PLEASE? I need it!


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

is this subliminal message to tell me to boot into bios? I'm too tired to read minds/communicate telepathically right now. i'm exhausted, could not sleep well last night and this morning stupid subcontractor repairing, sanding and painting homeowner's holes in walls on the other side of the wall that i sleep against. if you want me to go into bios, just say hey, go into bios.


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> I think vtt ddr is needed in training, so setting it in windows is not a good idea, you need to set it in bios and retrain.
> 
> but yeah, not all kits and all boards like it.
> 
> BUT how you get that "boot to bios" shortcut PLEASE? I need it!


Here you go:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...emory-stability-thread-1191.html#post28393426

https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...-ram-overclockers-to-go-straight-to-uefibios/


----------



## nick name

XGS-Duplicity said:


> is this subliminal message to tell me to boot into bios? I'm too tired to read minds/communicate telepathically right now. i'm exhausted, could not sleep well last night and this morning stupid subcontractor repairing, sanding and painting homeowner's holes in walls on the other side of the wall that i sleep against. if you want me to go into bios, just say hey, go into bios.


Oof. That's rough.


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> Here you go:
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...emory-stability-thread-1191.html#post28393426
> 
> https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...-ram-overclockers-to-go-straight-to-uefibios/


Thank you!

Though sadly it only works with UEFI installations of Windows :/


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Though sadly it only works with UEFI installations of Windows :/


What are you using?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

ok i train again, this time some tertiary. My normal custom tertiary i use for most configs is too tight for 4500 so i had to loosen. Will have to go back and try txp @4 and trefi at 65534 to see if i can bring latency/ down closer to 35 ns and improve reads/copy. but this is what i have now.


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> What are you using?


well, BIOS, cause there really is no good reason to use UEFI, apart from that now


----------



## skullbringer

XGS-Duplicity said:


> ok i train again, this time some tertiary. My normal custom tertiary i use for most configs is too tight for 4500 so i had to loosen. Will have to go back and try txp @4 and trefi at 65534 to see if i can bring latency/ down closer to 35 ns and improve reads/copy. but this is what i have now.


have you tried setting tRRD_L to 6? should need quite a bit less voltage


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

skullbringer said:


> have you tried setting tRRD_L to 6? should need quite a bit less voltage



for 4500, trrd_L @ 6 and trfc @ 320 consistantly would not go past 37% in karhu and would not let me play games, even with air conditioning blasting and cardboard box vent cooling.


for 4500, trrd_l @ 4 and trfc @ 280 made it to 300% in karhu(with air blasting/vent box and tertiary on auto) and let me play starcraft with no crashing at 80F ambient- without the air conditioning and without cardboard box vent cooling.

trrd_L @ 6 @ 4200 and trfc @ 378 for 4200 is memtest stable, trrdL @ 4 and trfc lower was not memtest stable for 4200(same cas 17-18-18-38-2T). volts for stable 4200 c17 is 1.45v bios set, +50mv for every 100mhz higher or +50mv for each cas lower-in theory. 



Higher trfc was less stable for 4500.




But trrdL @ 6 couldn't even play anything at 4500 even though its looser.



It doesn't make sense to me why worse ambient and tighter timings was more stable for starcraft. It literally goes against everything I learned so far. 


I tried txp @ 4, d6 or no train.
trefi 65534 is no go completely, gives system service exception, either more vcore or more vdimm or more sa/io, not willing to go anymore higher..
trefi 32768 gives system service exception, either more vcore or more vdimm or more sa/io, not willing to go anymore higher.
Tuned tertiaries crash in starcraft.


I wonder if system service exception with air blasting/vent cooling made chip fall below vcore ram requirements for 4500mhz due to utilizing turbo TVB for the chip?


I think c16 or c17 4400 with good subs would probably be more feasible but this kit will not go past the very beginning of a training sequence at all for 4300 or 4400 on this board ever. i've tried a hundred times. But it can train 4500 fine lol. Can someone explain why this is?


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> well, BIOS, cause there really is no good reason to use UEFI, apart from that now


Wait, I don't think that matters.


----------



## Larkonian

XGS-Duplicity said:


> I think c17 4400 with good subs would probably be more feasible but this kit will not go past the very beginning of a training sequence at all for 4300 or 4400 on this board ever. But it can train 4500 fine lol. Can someone explain why this is?


I not sure it is related but my board cannot train 4200+ with CAS higher than 16 until I manually set some timings.

Off the top off my head it was tWRPRE, tWRRD_sg, tWRRD_dg to control tWR, tWTR_L tWTR_S. Maybe tCWL as well.

Something to try would be 36, 36, 30 and 16.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Larkonian said:


> I not sure it is related but my board cannot train 4200+ with CAS higher than 16 until I manually set some timings.
> 
> Off the top off my head it was tWRPRE, tWRRD_sg, tWRRD_dg to control tWR, tWTR_L tWTR_S. Maybe tCWL as well.
> 
> Something to try would be 36, 36, 30 and 16.



4200 memory strap only trains at cas 18 for me on this kit on this board using special training tactics. I have to use very special training tactics to get 4200 and higher at lower cas on this board. manually set or auto timings didn't matter, tried many different combinations. 4266-4400 memory straps don't train at all with this kit on this board, Have to use very very very special training tactics to get 4266 on this board and is only memtest stable at cas 15, nothing higher.


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> Wait, I don't think that matters.


"This only applies if Windows 10 was installed using UEFI, and not legacy BIOS (CSM)." 

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5831-boot-uefi-firmware-settings-inside-windows-10-a.html

sadly it does, but apparently there is a utility for converting bios to uefi installations from Microsoft. might give that a shot, see if performance degrades and if yes, just do a reinstall 

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

skullbringer said:


> "This only applies if Windows 10 was installed using UEFI, and not legacy BIOS (CSM)."
> 
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5831-boot-uefi-firmware-settings-inside-windows-10-a.html
> 
> sadly it does, but apparently there is a utility for converting bios to uefi installations from Microsoft. might give that a shot, see if performance degrades and if yes, just do a reinstall
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk



glad someone mentioned that. last week I noticed it say boot device uefi in bios, it was never like that before. I never used any utility to do that. This made me think someone is tampering with my device because I turn off windows updates and so i did a complete system wipe and went back to older windows 10.


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> "This only applies if Windows 10 was installed using UEFI, and not legacy BIOS (CSM)."
> 
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5831-boot-uefi-firmware-settings-inside-windows-10-a.html
> 
> sadly it does, but apparently there is a utility for converting bios to uefi installations from Microsoft. might give that a shot, see if performance degrades and if yes, just do a reinstall
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


Hmmm, I wonder what happens if you put "shutdown.exe /r /fw /t 3" into a command prompt.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Could someone shed some light on what the difference is between disabled xmp and enabled xmp if you are setting all timings/voltages/frequencies manually in both scenarios?


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Could someone shed some light on what the difference is between disabled xmp and enabled xmp if you are setting all timings/voltages/frequencies manually in both scenarios?


I think there was some suspicion XMP altered some voltage adders or settings in the background so the manual visible settings didn't have the desired effect
It's always recommended to do a clear cmos after using it or you may be learning something wrong


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> I think there was some suspicion XMP altered some voltage adders or settings in the background so the manual visible settings didn't have the desired effect
> It's always recommended to do a clear cmos after using it or you may be learning something wrong



Gotcha. So if i'm not clocking to the xmp profile base timings/frequency that the sticks were rated for, i should use disabled xmp instead?


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Gotcha. So if i'm not clocking to the xmp profile base timings/frequency that the sticks were rated for, i should use disabled xmp instead?


You should never turn it on if you're an overclocker or you will need to clear the cmos


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> You should never turn it on if you're an overclocker or you will need to clear the cmos



in today's episode of "today I learnt"


----------



## munternet

I've been running the Viper Steels at 4400-16-16-16-36-2T for about a week now but couldn't help wondering what the G.Skill 4400c19s will do
The Steels are very stable but hit the wall at 4400MHz
I've just installed the G.Skills again and they can boot high frequencies up to about 4800MHz but it's always the same, the odd error after about a minute. Getting about 1 error every two minutes running TM5 Ollie
Can anyone with the same hardware give me suggestions please. 4600MHz plus
Cheers 

Edit: I started to get a few freezes after playing with the voltages. Is that too low vccio?


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> I've been running the Viper Steels at 4400-16-16-16-36-2T for about a week now but couldn't help wondering what the G.Skill 4400c19s will do
> The Steels are very stable but hit the wall at 4400MHz
> I've just installed the G.Skills again and they can boot high frequencies up to about 4800MHz but it's always the same, the odd error after about a minute. Getting about 1 error every two minutes running TM5 Ollie
> Can anyone with the same hardware give me suggestions please. 4600MHz plus
> Cheers
> 
> Edit: I started to get a few freezes after playing with the voltages. Is that too low vccio?


IO is ok. VccSA is way to low. Try auto, and see what you are getting. Normally you need 1.45+ SA on that speed. Even 1.6 SA is not uncommon.


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Can anyone with the same hardware give me suggestions please. 4600MHz plus
> Cheers


tRFC 300 is a bit optimistic for that high mem frequency. Maybe try 320-340 or so.


----------



## joyzao

Could you tell me what is the best memory stability test? Was the hci memo test or another?

Thanks


----------



## Betroz

joyzao said:


> Could you tell me what is the best memory stability test? Was the hci memo test or another?
> 
> Thanks


You can't go wrong with this : https://hcidesign.com/memtest/purchase.html
Or this : https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/


----------



## munternet

Thanks for the help people, rep given 
Still needs tuning but I will give it the BFV test now. Already gave it some TM5 Ollie and GSAT
Lowering the VCCIO stopped the freezes
Raising the VCCSA (a lot) fixed the errors
Changing tRFC to 320 from 300 helped boot consistency and stability
Good team effort :thumb:

Edit: Played 2 hours BFV and she was solid as a rock
The hottest stick got to 30°c


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> Thanks for the help people, rep given
> Still needs tuning but I will give it the BFV test now. Already gave it some TM5 Ollie and GSAT
> Lowering the VCCIO stopped the freezes
> Raising the VCCSA (a lot) fixed the errors
> Changing tRFC to 320 from 300 helped boot consistency and stability
> Good team effort :thumb:


This is more like it should be 

Nice result


----------



## reflex75

Playing with my 4000 CL15 G.Skill 
They scale nicely with voltage.
They can do 3700 13-13-28 for better latency: 34.5ns
It's fine for 32GB (4x8)
Not 100% stress stable at 1.59v, but testing just for fun (I keep default 1.50v for daily)


----------



## zGunBLADEz

4x16GB sticks @ 3800 quad HCI STABLE 1000%

@Nizzen see??? after all my "STRESS" tests bfv or any game for that matters aint crap lol. im going to use this ram for spinners cache with an asus 16x pci nvme card on raid 0... it has to be flawless...
nevermind my ram tweaks are "ALWAYS" flawless lol

lets see if i can do that 1T cmd now which i doubt but is nice to see it boot and test on it lol..

i like that gui better than the hci pro...


----------



## itssladenlol

What would be the Best 2x16gb dual rank Kit for a good shot at 4400-4500 with good Timings? 

Are f4-3200c14d-32GTZR 2x16GB good for that matter? 

Running maximus XII hero and 10900k, tried running 4x8gb but anything over 4200 Hits a Wall. 

Thanks guys. 
2x8gb runs up to 4600+ already tested it.


----------



## Nizzen

itssladenlol said:


> What would be the Best 2x16gb dual rank Kit for a good shot at 4400-4500 with good Timings?
> 
> Are f4-3200c14d-32GTZR 2x16GB good for that matter?
> 
> Running maximus XII hero and 10900k, tried running 4x8gb but anything over 4200 Hits a Wall.
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 2x8gb runs up to 4600+ already tested it.


Best guess is 2x16 g.skill royal 4000. Watercool the ram and use Asus Apex. 

This will be the best shoot


----------



## skullbringer

So probably another stupid question, but is there coherency between stability level and when karhu throws an error? Say when I get first error at 7% is it less stable than when I get first error at 500%? Or is any error within the first 1000% equally "stable" and the difference in percentage is just RNG?


----------



## itssladenlol

So its normal that i cant hit 4400 with 4x8gb dimms on z490?
Just want to be sure, cause i tested like 6 trident Z royal dual Kits which all of Them could do 4400-4600 with 2x8gb and none of Them would Post with 4x8gb no matter how lose the Timings. 

Just want to be sure im wasting my time getting 4x8gb to work at high freq (4400-4500)


----------



## zGunBLADEz

itssladenlol said:


> So its normal that i cant hit 4400 with 4x8gb dimms on z490?
> Just want to be sure, cause i tested like 6 trident Z royal dual Kits which all of Them could do 4400-4600 with 2x8gb and none of Them would Post with 4x8gb no matter how lose the Timings.
> 
> Just want to be sure im wasting my time getting 4x8gb to work at high freq (4400-4500)


More dimms more hard it gets . You would need good mobo+cpu+ram like good stuff and even that you fighting against the river.. Then you have the other issue of they get hotter than regular 8gb sticks.. You would need to shoot more voltage "everywhere" as well.

10min-30min stress tests like you see around here aint cutting either, if you want stability so thats that.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> So probably another stupid question, but is there coherency between stability level and when karhu throws an error? Say when I get first error at 7% is it less stable than when I get first error at 500%? Or is any error within the first 1000% equally "stable" and the difference in percentage is just RNG?


 karhu %500? Idk i wouldnt call that stable.. i wouldn't even take that seriously.. 20,000% at least specially on 8gb sticks... The way it goes thru %s on 8gb you need more time.

You want to get those sticks hot..


----------



## itssladenlol

So 2x16gb dual rank or 2x8gb single rank is the to go i guess with z490 right? 

Will 16GB still be enough for games in the Future? 

Any issues with 2x16gb dual rank?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

itssladenlol said:


> So 2x16gb dual rank or 2x8gb single rank is the to go i guess with z490 right?
> 
> Will 16GB still be enough for games in the Future?
> 
> Any issues with 2x16gb dual rank?


Well you can try the one nizzen said maybe you get lucky but dont expect them to get that high.. You trading density for speed...

I mean theres people here fighting with unstable stuff to get a bit more latency which idk for what theres a point where you start getting diminished returns. They dont even or are sure the stuff is even stable and shooting like crazy volts lol..

My z390i & 8700k combo on the asus board only needs 1.16v on SA/IO for 4200 so rolls eyes there even for 3900 "LL" 32gb kit


----------



## skullbringer

zGunBLADEz said:


> karhu %500? Idk i wouldnt call that stable.. i wouldn't even take that seriously.. 20,000% at least specially on 8gb sticks... The way it goes thru %s on 8gb you need more time.
> 
> You want to get those sticks hot..


not what I asked. I need to know if I move in the right direction, so is 500% better than 7% in terms of stability or is both equally unstable?


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> So 2x16gb dual rank or 2x8gb single rank is the to go i guess with z490 right?
> 
> Will 16GB still be enough for games in the Future?
> 
> Any issues with 2x16gb dual rank?


2 x 8GB is the way to go if you value OC potential more than RAM capacity. 16GB is enough for games of today and probably next year aswell. Cyberpunk 2077 may be one game that changes that, but who knows.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> karhu %500? Idk i wouldnt call that stable.. i wouldn't even take that seriously.. 20,000% at least specially on 8gb sticks... The way it goes thru %s on 8gb you need more time.
> 
> You want to get those sticks hot..
> 
> 
> 
> not what I asked. I need to know if I move in the right direction, so is 500% better than 7% in terms of stability or is both equally unstable?
Click to expand...

To me they both useless thats why you need to test "LONGER" Even 5,000% or 6400% i will scratch my oced and see again.


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> I need to know if I move in the right direction, so is 500% better than 7% in terms of stability or is both equally unstable?


Well if you get errors at 7%, you need to increase VDIMM or IO/SA. If you get errors at 500%, heat is more likely the cause.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> skullbringer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need to know if I move in the right direction, so is 500% better than 7% in terms of stability or is both equally unstable?
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you get errors at 7%, you need to increase VDIMM or IO/SA. If you get errors at 500%, heat is more likely the cause.
Click to expand...

Thats the problem you get a hit at 800% then you think is ok. Then do same settings as before and get hit at 7% thats why you have to make sure those sticks get hot. Cpu aint stable, sticks not hot enough.. A vdroop somewhere,somehow etc etc..

The trick is long period of time testing.


----------



## Gen.

Betroz said:


> 2 x 8GB is the way to go if you value OC potential more than RAM capacity. 16GB is enough for games of today and probably next year aswell. Cyberpunk 2077 may be one game that changes that, but who knows.


What are you? Have you tried the 2R 4400 16-16-2T? We are, and it turned out to be at 4666 17-17-2T 1R. Used 3200 14-14 XMP modules, settings 4400 16-16-34-2T 1.55V + 10900K 5300/5100 + Z490 MEG UNIFY


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Gen. said:


> Betroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2 x 8GB is the way to go if you value OC potential more than RAM capacity. 16GB is enough for games of today and probably next year aswell. Cyberpunk 2077 may be one game that changes that, but who knows.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you? Have you tried the 2R 4400 16-16-2T? We are, and it turned out to be at 4666 17-17-2T 1R. Used 3200 14-14 XMP modules, settings 4400 16-16-34-2T 1.55V + 10900K 5300/5100 + Z490 MEG UNIFY
Click to expand...

Thats cool, what board i mean what io/sa and cooling used? :rollseyes: nah i don't care for that..



at this point really looking the last 20pages back this topic has become a top 10 3dmark type of topic.... 


But, Specially...*
wheres the hci run?*


----------



## KaRLiToS

what is 0x0000007f BSOD?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

KaRLiToS said:


> what is 0x0000007f BSOD?



If you got a bsod notch back or raise voltage be careful if you dont want to reinstall os... Are you sure you doing this tests on stock or a well stable overclock? You overclocking memory what worked before it can be different now.. Remember that.. That error in particular mostly memory


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> To me they both useless thats why you need to test "LONGER" Even 5,000% or 6400% i will scratch my oced and see again.


Remember: There is no stable, just degree of stable 

You can get memory stable memory in very cold environment for hours, but the same "stable" can get very unstable if the environment is just a few degrees warmer. 

So if someone is posting HCI "stable", the best is to show all the variables. Ambient temp, watercooled ram, water cooled cpu, water temp etc...

Stable in given environment


----------



## reflex75

skullbringer said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> karhu %500? Idk i wouldnt call that stable.. i wouldn't even take that seriously.. 20,000% at least specially on 8gb sticks... The way it goes thru %s on 8gb you need more time.
> 
> You want to get those sticks hot..
> 
> 
> 
> not what I asked. I need to know if I move in the right direction, so is 500% better than 7% in terms of stability or is both equally unstable?
Click to expand...

As I have said many times: RAM stability is not about duration or percentage, but temperature!
You can pass days of stress test and crash in few minutes in gaming if your sticks get hotter because of the GPU.

My advice to test stability:

1) first check your settings by doing a rapid testing of timings/frequency by booting to Linux USB (search GAST) about 5 minutes should be enough, just to avoid to kill your Windows by mistake 

2) slow your case fans, boot to Windows, use your GPU to heat up your RAM sticks in background and do your stress test while monitoring your RAM temp, the first errors will appear when memory cells loose their electric signal quality because of the heat.
That will be your maximum safe temp before risking memory corruption.

3) adjust your settings if you're not happy with the result and try again 

Keep some safety room max stable temperature for daily usage 

Default XMP should be stable until about 60°c on PCB (85°c in ICs from JEDEC standard)



Edit: fix bad chars from smartphone


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me they both useless thats why you need to test "LONGER" Even 5,000% or 6400% i will scratch my oced and see again.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember: There is no stable, just degree of stable /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
> 
> You can get memory stable memory in very cold environment for hours, but the same "stable" can get very unstable if the environment is just a few degrees warmer.
> 
> So if someone is posting HCI "stable", the best is to show all the variables. Ambient temp, watercooled ram, water cooled cpu, water temp etc...
> 
> Stable in given environment /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Click to expand...

My sticks can be watercooled fyi.. But i dont have them like that xD..
Ambient is way over 90F the other day was almost 100f..

Stick to the topic rules or open new one something like top 10 aida64 mem benchies... XD

This is a stress testing topic..


----------



## skullbringer

zGunBLADEz said:


> snip





Nizzen said:


> snap





reflex75 said:


> sneep


thanks for your input, exactly that is why I'm asking. I've done a lot of testing with the exact same bios settings and even exact same dimm temperatures, and I've seen errors at 7% one time and at 1000% another time.

So naturally the question arises, where lies the inconsistency, in the memory or in the stress test? Guess it's the latter now. 

This also means that the rules in og what is considered 24/7 stable are worthless. Cause I can do 400% hci sometimes, sometimes not.

Will go back to the drawing board now, make sure my dimms pass 10000% karhu at 50C dimm temp before calling it stable and going for more performance. 

I have experience with GSAT under Ubuntu with WSL 1, but I've found it has more value for long term testing, like 1h+. Or has that changed with recent releases? Last time I used it was Threadripper 1 days...


----------



## zGunBLADEz

According to hci 1000% is golden. I never had any issues after the hci runs.. But, I m not overvolting the crap out of nothing here tho xD.

And the same crap i been saying all along "get those sticks hot" :rollseyes: which equals "LONGER" tests.. The less the density the more % needed..

To be fair you aint messing around like that the ram on daily use. So if it pass long testing you be good.. try to throw variations. I started using anta777 extreme too as well. I kinda like it..

You want to see variations and cold to hot and hot to cold etc..


----------



## skullbringer

zGunBLADEz said:


> According to hci 1000% is golden. I never had any issues after the hci runs..
> 
> And the same crap i been saying all along "get those sticks hot" :rollseyes: which equals "LONGER" tests.. The less the density the more % needed..


when you have a fan pointed at the sticks, meaning they will always stay at 39C max, you would therefore assume that running longer tests makes no difference, since they will always stay at the same temp. 

but from my testing that's not the case. so saying "get those sticks hot" is misleading, since there is still variance at max temperature. 

dont believe me?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> zGunBLADEz said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to hci 1000% is golden. I never had any issues after the hci runs..
> 
> And the same crap i been saying all along "get those sticks hot" :rollseyes: which equals "LONGER" tests.. The less the density the more % needed..
> 
> 
> 
> when you have a fan pointed at the sticks, meaning they will always stay at 39C max, you would therefore assume that running longer tests makes no difference, since they will always stay at the same temp.
> 
> but from my testing that's not the case. so saying "get those sticks hot" is misleading, since there is still variance at max temperature.
> 
> dont believe me?
Click to expand...

Its not misleading, that just saying it ain't stable at those timings or the problem lies somewhere else.. Test, test, test. You see how rigorous i am testing them. Not only one run i do multiples. Right now shes again back on hci.. i notched a couple of timings down... Even if it does 1000% on hci she will go to ramtest as well.


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> According to hci 1000% is golden. I never had any issues after the hci runs..


Since my Viper sticks do not have temp sensors, I have no clue how hot they get. But I have a 140mm fan blasting them all the time. No HCI run you say? I can re-post this again :


----------



## skullbringer

zGunBLADEz said:


> Its not misleading, that just saying it ain't stable at those timings or the problem lies somewhere else.. Test, test, test. You see how rigorous i am testing them. Not only one run i do multiples. Right now shes again back on hci.. i notched a couple of timings down... Even if it does 1000% on hci she will go to ramtest as well.


people advertise karhu over hci because it's "faster", when in reality a 10 minute karhu run just says nothing about stability. So "faster" testing is actually counterproductive, as it is inconsistent and may lead to false security, even when you take heat out of the equation. 

so "calling something stable" should not just be about testing to a certain percentage, but testing for a certain percentage and time. 

like "test for 1000% hci or 1 hour", whichever takes longer


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> people advertise karhu over hci because it's "faster", when in reality a 10 minute karhu run just says nothing about stability. So "faster" testing is actually counterproductive, as it is inconsistent and may lead to false security, even when you take heat out of the equation.
> 
> so "calling something stable" should not just be about testing to a certain percentage, but testing for a certain percentage and time.
> 
> like "test for 1000% hci or 1 hour", whichever takes longer


do you realize that my runs are almost a day long or over?? by then temps are already equalized its just a matter if they stick or not the 4200 one on x299 is 32gb at over 3000+ hci 8gb x 4 stick on quad.. 

this kit im using right now is 4 sticks dual ranked 4x16GB which equals 64GB in quad channel plus they get hotter than 8gb sticks...


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> Since my Viper sticks do not have temp sensors, I have no clue how hot they get. But I have a 140mm fan blasting them all the time. No HCI run you say? I can re-post this again :


mine neither, you can get an ir gun.. i use a fan too... im not a masoquist either lol


To me ram overclocking is the only overclock that "YOU" need to have almost to perfection, bcuz it can do alot of harm and mess alot of stuff... you can be miserable failing at a cpu overclock you dont know wth what and guess what it is?


yeah and it sucks the time dedicated on it 
i have left the pc crunching some timings to go to bed then go to work not even look the pc before leaving... to come back and see it failed at 70% all that wasted time in idle lol


----------



## skullbringer

zGunBLADEz said:


> do you realize that my runs are almost a day long or over?? by then temps are already equalized its just a matter if they stick or not the 4200 one on x299 is 32gb at over 3000+ hci 8gb x 4 stick on quad..
> 
> this kit im using right now is 4 sticks dual ranked 4x16GB which equals 64GB in quad channel plus they get hotter than 8gb sticks...


yeah, but still you are missing my point. 

If I took a heat gun and heated the modules to like 60 C at the start of the test, you would assume an unstable setup would throw errors right away. but that is not always true.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> yeah, but still you are missing my point.
> 
> If I took a heat gun and heated the modules to like 60 C at the start of the test, you would assume an unstable setup would throw errors right away. but that is not always true.




Im not missing the point.... its not always truth.. you need a stable setting as well 

A semi stable setting is very likely temp dependant triggered...Now, the trick is to find where it lies if is the timings, temps, more voltage, too much voltage, imc, mobo etc...

4400 @ CL12/12/[email protected] its imposible to do "STRESS TEST" stable.. no matter the temps


----------



## Falkentyne

XGS-Duplicity said:


> for 4500, trrd_L @ 6 and trfc @ 320 consistantly would not go past 37% in karhu and would not let me play games, even with air conditioning blasting and cardboard box vent cooling.
> 
> 
> for 4500, trrd_l @ 4 and trfc @ 280 made it to 300% in karhu(with air blasting/vent box and tertiary on auto) and let me play starcraft with no crashing at 80F ambient- without the air conditioning and without cardboard box vent cooling.
> 
> trrd_L @ 6 @ 4200 and trfc @ 378 for 4200 is memtest stable, trrdL @ 4 and trfc lower was not memtest stable for 4200(same cas 17-18-18-38-2T). volts for stable 4200 c17 is 1.45v bios set, +50mv for every 100mhz higher or +50mv for each cas lower-in theory.
> 
> 
> 
> Higher trfc was less stable for 4500.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But trrdL @ 6 couldn't even play anything at 4500 even though its looser.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't make sense to me why worse ambient and tighter timings was more stable for starcraft. It literally goes against everything I learned so far.
> 
> 
> I tried txp @ 4, d6 or no train.
> trefi 65534 is no go completely, gives system service exception, either more vcore or more vdimm or more sa/io, not willing to go anymore higher..
> trefi 32768 gives system service exception, either more vcore or more vdimm or more sa/io, not willing to go anymore higher.
> Tuned tertiaries crash in starcraft.
> 
> 
> I wonder if system service exception with air blasting/vent cooling made chip fall below vcore ram requirements for 4500mhz due to utilizing turbo TVB for the chip?
> 
> 
> I think c16 or c17 4400 with good subs would probably be more feasible but this kit will not go past the very beginning of a training sequence at all for 4300 or 4400 on this board ever. i've tried a hundred times. But it can train 4500 fine lol. Can someone explain why this is?


There's a bug with DDR VTT where what you set in BIOS ends up big time incorrect, and you have to check in health settings to make sure the value you entered is actually correct and not 50-100mv higher or lower. Not sure why that bug happens and I can't be bothered with it anymore. Haven't seen this happen on Z490 Master at all, except the DDR VTT is always like 25mv too low, even on auto (so you need to manually raise it 25mv).


----------



## skullbringer

Falkentyne said:


> There's a bug with DDR VTT where what you set in BIOS ends up big time incorrect, and you have to check in health settings to make sure the value you entered is actually correct and not 50-100mv higher or lower. Not sure why that bug happens and I can't be bothered with it anymore. Haven't seen this happen on Z490 Master at all, except the DDR VTT is always like 25mv too low, even on auto (so you need to manually raise it 25mv).


is turbovcore readout of vttddr reliable, or only health section sensors in bios, do you know?


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi guys.
Here is another test after disconnecting the PC. I had to raise the SA by 1 step for karhu.
4500Mhz 16-16-16


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> is turbovcore readout of vttddr reliable, or only health section sensors in bios, do you know?


Referring to Z390 Aorus Master. Nothing to do with Asus.
Asus readout is correct, however I have seen bugs where changing DDR Voltage on Asus does not change DDR Termination voltage sometimes (saw setting 1.5v DDRV once and DDR Termination was still 0.675v, and yes it was on "Auto")...


----------



## reflex75

skullbringer said:


> people advertise karhu over hci because it's "faster", when in reality a 10 minute karhu run just says nothing about stability. So "faster" testing is actually counterproductive, as it is inconsistent and may lead to false security, even when you take heat out of the equation.
> 
> so "calling something stable" should not just be about testing to a certain percentage, but testing for a certain percentage and time.
> 
> like "test for 1000% hci or 1 hour", whichever takes longer


Memory OC is not straightforward like CPU OC, and it's why it's more rewarding when it works.
You have millions of timings and frequency combinations that match more or less better.
And then you have both PCB and ICs quality to prevent loosing signal at higher temperature.
And moreover, all memory cells are not equal.
There are always weak points that throws errors first when stressed.
And when testing, you can not stress all memory at once.
If the weak point is at the beginning of the test, you can have errors sooner...


----------



## Gen.

zGunBLADEz said:


> Thats cool, what board i mean what io/sa and cooling used? :rollseyes: nah i don't care for that..
> 
> 
> 
> at this point really looking the last 20pages back this topic has become a top 10 3dmark type of topic....
> 
> 
> But, Specially...*
> wheres the hci run?*


As far as I remember, there was IO / SA = 1.25 / 1.33 and stable in Karhu, LinX, TM5 Extreme1. BIOS BETA.


----------



## Nizzen

On topic?

From #1 post in this thread:

"HCI
HCI consider 1000% to be the 'golden standard' however for larger densities this can be time consuming. A minimal coverage of two laps (200%) is required to be added to the table for HCI for density over 16GB. 16GB or less requires a minimum of 4 laps (400%)"

10900k direct die cooled
Team T-Force Extreem 4500c18 2x8GB aircooled
Asus Apex xii


----------



## reflex75

Nizzen said:


> On topic?


4700 CR1 is pretty impressive!
Apex really shines for higher mem frequency thanks to its 2 dimm only slots than are closer to the CPU (for shorter traces).
Nice if you don't need more than 16GB, because 2x16 are too slow...


----------



## eminded1

i got a 64gb kit of gskill 3600mhz ram at c18 im looking to see how far i can take it. the name of kit is F43600c18D64GVK anyone have any expirernce with this kit and how far you can OC it.. it is 2x32gb Dimms.. i have them in a ASrock z490 Taichi Motherboard. im gona try to OC it and ill post back


----------



## skullbringer

pretty happy as a stop off point for today


----------



## Gregix

lolz
After many trials finally booted successfully 4400c19 on my z370Taichi. No luck with higher thou. And no with tighter primaries other than 38 tRAS instead 39. That was like 2 days ago.
Weird thing is, I made it somehow by force, just putting 1,6v, and, what matters, RTL/IOLs kinda stiff, and secondary just few notches more points than my running/tested 4100c15 setup. Almost nothing was on auto, auto just does not train.
And it doesn't even error(at 1,52V that is) as I was gaming with this (BF5, AAO, WOT) and did full extreme t5 and ollie. 

GTG, maybe will do 4500 or 4600. I would like to shave cl or RP/RCD, but when I touch this it just bootlops...

Edit; No luck either with 4500 + or with primarytimings, except again tRAS, went to 36. Got lucky and trained default RLTs/iols, not some weird IOL offset sharade below 21.

BTW this mobo is freak, I could do 25x200BLCK to get CPU at Ghz. But memory settings got smashed by this, couldn't set it properly. That was on UEFI 1.3 as I remember.

EDIT 2: did it for science again, bus 200


----------



## SoldierRBT

Finally found the 55 code issue when booting above 4800MHz. Had to set Mode 2. Could boot 5000 18-22-22-42 Auto settings on a SP63 chip.


----------



## munternet

Got a CTD after about 3 hours BFV and CPU peaked @88°c 5.3 GHz so will drop it to a cool 5.2GHz I think although there are no CPU stability issues
Still running 4600c17 daily but had to bump vccsa from 1.52v to 1.54v
1.55 vdimm
1.3 vccio

2*16GB 3600-16-16-16-36 G.Skills arrived today so time for a play after work


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Got a CTD after about 3 hours BFV and CPU peaked @88°c 5.3 GHz so will drop it to a cool 5.2GHz I think although there are no CPU stability issues
> Still running 4600c17 daily but had to bump vccsa from 1.52v to 1.54v
> 1.55 vdimm
> 1.3 vccio
> 
> 2*16GB 3600-16-16-16-36 G.Skills arrived today so time for a play after work


Running vccsa 1.52V for 4600c17 imo might be too high. Sometimes try lower vccsa will improve the stability, like 1.35.

Besides, you may try ODT 80/120/60 or 80/240/48

3600C16 is a very fun kit. Able to stabilize it at 4400 [email protected] io&sa=1.3V. Still trying to get it to 16-16.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

+1 at people following at topic finally...


btw, im messaging the creator of hci to let him know some updates and that he needs to raise the percentage of what is "GOLDEN STANDARD" as % 1000 @ 30min on fast ram aint enough time to bring errors out XD


this is my update on 3800 4x16gb. Wishing for that 3900 strap 😕


----------



## SoldierRBT

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Running vccsa 1.52V for 4600c17 imo might be too high. Sometimes try lower vccsa will improve the stability, like 1.35.
> 
> Besides, you may try ODT 80/120/60 or 80/240/48
> 
> 3600C16 is a very fun kit. Able to stabilize it at 4400 [email protected] io&sa=1.3V. Still trying to get it to 16-16.



What does ODT settings do for memory? Can those number be applied to 4700/4800MHz RAM OC?

Thank you


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> What does ODT settings do for memory? Can those number be applied to 4700/4800MHz RAM OC?
> 
> Thank you


ODT reduces the signal reflection at the end of the circuit. It should fully cancel the signal reflection and match the impedance of your ram.

You can try those ODTs, but not guaranteed. Impedance changes between different sticks and also with temp.

The most general ODT for SR b-die is 80/240/48 on Z390, Z490 might change a little.


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> ODT reduces the signal reflection at the end of the circuit. It should fully cancel the signal reflection and match the impedance of your ram.
> 
> You can try those ODTs, but not guaranteed. Impedance changes between different sticks and also with temp.
> 
> The most general ODT for SR b-die is 80/240/48 on Z390, Z490 might change a little.


is this why VTT DDR tweaking can sometimes help, because actually ODT values are too low for stick and Vdimm?


----------



## skullbringer

zGunBLADEz said:


> +1 at people following at topic finally...
> 
> 
> btw, im messaging the creator of hci to let him know some updates and that he needs to raise the percentage of what is "GOLDEN STANDARD" as % 1000 @ 30min on fast ram aint enough time to bring errors out XD
> 
> 
> this is my update on 3800 4x16gb. Wishing for that 3900 strap 😕


very nice setup! :thumb:

well I don't think coverage alone solves the problem. if you set the standard at 2000%, as soon as speeds double we are at the same problem again. 

I think the right approach would be 1000% coverage at max dimm temperature. 
So, run hci until temps in hwinfo are at max and don't change anymore, reset hwinfo so min = max, start the hci 1000% run and if completed successfully, also show the hwinfo window with time and min max dimm temperature


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> is this why VTT DDR tweaking can sometimes help, because actually ODT values are too low for stick and Vdimm?


Too low might not be enough to cancel the signal reflection, or too high the sticks cant get enough power.


----------



## munternet

Got the new sticks in and running. Didn't realize there are double the number of settings in the rtls being dual rank but got that sorted now.
Got it error free at 4000-16-16-16-36-2T in preliminary testing so far but many of the timings are still on auto and I feel like some BFV 
Had them running badly at 4400-17 so it looks promising but I have a feeling their happy place will be closer to 4000 looking at the voltages
F4-3600C16D-32GTZR


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Got the new sticks in and running. Didn't realize there are double the number of settings in the rtls being dual rank but got that sorted now.
> Got it error free at 4000-16-16-16-36-2T in preliminary testing so far but many of the timings are still on auto and I feel like some BFV
> Had them running badly at 4400-17 so it looks promising but I have a feeling their happy place will be closer to 4000 looking at the voltages
> F4-3600C16D-32GTZR


For "double rank", you need to assign "dr" with actual numbers...


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For "double rank", you need to assign "dr" with actual numbers...


Cheers for the tip
It worked ok playing BFV. I actually thought the game played quite snappy and windows boots faster from the bios
Do you have a configurator shot I can look over?
Cheers


----------



## VladimirAG

Everywhere or Samung or b-die, how about Micron E-Die dual rank 2x16?

*Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 3200MHz [BLS2K16G4D32AESE]*
*4133*MHz CL*16*-*21*-39-CR2, vdram=*1.420*V vtt=0.720V io=1.230V sa=1.260V


----------



## cstkl1

fyi

dat run time is based on every 100%

u only get full run time if u set a completion target in setting for runmemtest pro

fyi.


----------



## eminded1

so i successfully got a 400MHZ boost on the 64gb kit of ram i got.. im acually suprised that i was able to get 4000mhz out of a 3600mhz c18 64gb kit.. i did try 4133 but it wouldnt boot. i bet im at the limit of the kit. i only needed to bump the dram voltage upto 1.37 for it to be stable. 

the Ram is
64gb 2x32GB Kit at C18 22 22 42 @ 1.35 @ 3600MHZ
i successfuly OC to 4000MHZ at same timings. with a small bump in dram voltage 
VCCIO - 1.16
VCCSA - 1.16
Such low SA and IO i do think i could push it further but i want to tweak the sub timings they look a little high. tRFC is at 1023. maybe i could cut that in half.. i attched a pic of the settings. i have pass karhu 3000%, prime95 large fft, memtest for hrs and hrs stable 100%
i tried c17 18 18 42 but no dice.. wont boot. i havent touched the CPU in this new rig i just built last week but i will soon.

I will try to higher clocks and post back.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Cheers for the tip
> It worked ok playing BFV. I actually thought the game played quite snappy and windows boots faster from the bios
> Do you have a configurator shot I can look over?
> Cheers


Here is mine at 4400, I am using mode 2.


----------



## Gregix

Where search for clue when extreme throws out 1 only error?


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Z390 Aorus Master [email protected]/4.7GHz-Cache 8C/16T [email protected] 16-17-17-37-2T HCI Memtestpro 400%
Bios Set Values - 1.5v/Vdimm, 1.3v/SA-IO


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Here is mine at 4400, I am using mode 2.


Cheers mate :thumb: stellar effort
I was wondering whether you got tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg to 6
What voltages for that?



XGS-Duplicity said:


> Z390 Aorus Master [email protected]/4.7GHz-Cache 8C/16T [email protected] 16-17-17-37-2T HCI Memtestpro 400%
> Bios Set Values - 1.5v/Vdimm, 1.3v/SA-IO


Looks good but I find it difficult to enlarge your embedded images by clicking on them


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Cheers mate :thumb: stellar effort
> I was wondering whether you got tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg to 6
> What voltages for that?
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good but I find it difficult to enlarge your embedded images by clicking on them



Right click, then select view image (firefox). It will allow you to zoom in. If you want a video recording, i can do that too, i still have hci memtestpro running and i am letting it run to 1,000% coverage.


----------



## munternet

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Right click, then select view image (firefox). It will allow you to zoom in. If you want a video recording, i can do that too, i still have hci memtestpro running and i am letting it run to 1,000% coverage.


Right click and open in new tab in Chrome :thumb:
Looks nice and tight with low io and sa


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

munternet said:


> Right click and open in new tab in Chrome :thumb:
> Looks nice and tight with low io and sa



Thank you, I will try to do 15-16-16-36-2T @ 4200 next with 1.55v or 1.56v and 1.3v or 1.35v sa/io. Then i will do [email protected] at 1.55v and 1.3v sa/io. Then i will do [email protected] at 1.58v and 1.3v or 1.35v sa/io. Then i will try to do 15-15-15-32-2T @ 4266 with 1.6v and 1.35v sa/io if the homeowner will let me turn on the air conditioning. HCI memtestpro is harder to pass than karhu so I will try my best to display world record again with hci memtestpro this time around. Will aim for 1,000% coverage error free in hci memtestpro on all configurations.


opened a bunch of tabs and loaded websites while test is still running, no lock ups or errors.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Cheers mate :thumb: stellar effort
> I was wondering whether you got tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg to 6
> What voltages for that?


RDRD and WRWR sg can be 6 but cant pass the TM5 Ollie. Vdimm tried up to 1.6V. This is probably due to training issue.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

*Z390 Aorus Master [email protected]/4.7GHz-Cache 8C/16T [email protected] 16-17-17-37-2T HCI Memtestpro Version 7 1,000% Coverage/8.5 Hours*
*Bios Set Values - 1.5v/Vdimm, 1.3v SA/IO
Ram Kit - **F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR *


----------



## cstkl1

10900k - SP81
M12E - Bios 098
*
50|[email protected] 1.33v L4 
4x8gb 4133 [email protected]
vccio/vcssa 1.15/1.15
*









@shamino1978
good job bro


----------



## satinghostrider

XGS-Duplicity said:


> *Z390 Aorus Master [email protected]/4.7GHz-Cache 8C/16T [email protected] 16-17-17-37-2T HCI Memtestpro Version 7 1,000% Coverage/8.5 Hours*
> *Bios Set Values - 1.5v/Vdimm, 1.3v SA/IO
> Ram Kit - **F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbyOLJtcbWA


How does this perform in AIDA Memory benchmark?
Quite tempted to try this settings out. Realized you had to drop ring to 47x and maintain a 1.3V SA/IO voltage.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

satinghostrider said:


> How does this perform in AIDA Memory benchmark?
> Quite tempted to try this settings out. Realized you had to drop ring to 47x and maintain a 1.3V SA/IO voltage.



This was specifically with HT ON, I can do 4.8ghz ring on ht on as well but it costs more vcore than I want to use for 5.1 with ht on. i haven't ran a new bench yet.


----------



## satinghostrider

XGS-Duplicity said:


> This was specifically with HT ON, I can do 4.8ghz ring on ht on as well but it costs more vcore than I want to use for 5.1 with ht on. i haven't ran a new bench yet.


Great going man. Guess with HT ON you need alot more Vcore.


----------



## munternet

@OLDFATSHEEP I tested that tip regarding dr settings and it made a massive difference :thumb:
I'm pretty impressed with the 2 dimm DR setup so far and even if I don't get the frequency much higher I could live with the current result 
That said I will see how far I can get it after work tomorrow


----------



## itssladenlol

What Do You guys think About the new crucial balistix max dual rank Kit? 
BLM2K16G44C19U4B
Its 2x16gb 4400 c19 at 1,4v dual rank. 

Looks pretty sick on Paper. 

https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/blm2k16g44c19u4b


----------



## skullbringer

itssladenlol said:


> What Do You guys think About the new crucial balistix max dual rank Kit?
> BLM2K16G44C19U4B
> Its 2x16gb 4400 c19 at 1,4v dual rank.
> 
> Looks pretty sick on Paper.
> 
> https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/blm2k16g44c19u4b


u sure these are dual rank? 

afaik these use 16Gb micron e die rev b and are therefore single rank


----------



## eeeven

Finally made the 4700 17-17-17-32-320 stable on XI Apex. I needed more DMI Voltage. Karhu stopped at 7% on everything below 1,15v.


----------



## skullbringer

*1000% HCI 4700 MHz CL17-17-17-37 1T 1.55 Vdimm, 0.7375 VTT DDR, 1.6 Vsa *

I call this "the troll kit", piece of cake to get 400% hci stable, pain in the a** to get 1000% hci stable.

But I'm very confident with these settings for 24/7 now. Did a 5 minute warm-up hci run and then ran 1000% hci without any air flow on a test bench (see hwinfo temp min/max and graph)

not quite < 33ns latency, but that is due to tXP 5 and tRFC 370 for stability reasons

G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x 8GB, Samsung 8Gb B-Die, A2 pcb), Maximus XII Apex


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> very nice setup! :thumb:
> 
> well I don't think coverage alone solves the problem. if you set the standard at 2000%, as soon as speeds double we are at the same problem again.
> 
> I think the right approach would be 1000% coverage at max dimm temperature.
> So, run hci until temps in hwinfo are at max and don't change anymore, reset hwinfo so min = max, start the hci 1000% run and if completed successfully, also show the hwinfo window with time and min max dimm temperature


Yeah, this sticks (Team T-Force XTREEM 64GB TXD464G3733HC17AQC01) dont have a temp sensor other users also reported other kits that also dont have a temp sensor on it..

As well the asrock timing configurator dont work in this mobo either.

I bought them second hand with the heatsinks for waterblocks and their blocks and everything like i mention before. im debating if im going to watercool them or not... i dont think they need water, i dont want to add more stuff into my loop is already a tight fit in there XD


btw, i got reponse from Alan which is the HCI creator to my question.. and its exactly what i was thinking.



> *I've always said overnight is the best test once you are truly sure you have a stable configuration.* you have to balance the folks who are careful and methodical against the folks who want to know now, you know? 400% is enough to catch bad ram sticks in 99% of cases, but *overclocking has different needs I'll admit.*


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> *1000% HCI 4700 MHz CL17-17-17-37 1T 1.55 Vdimm, 0.7375 VTT DDR, 1.6 Vsa *
> 
> I call this "the troll kit", piece of cake to get 400% hci stable, pain in the a** to get 1000% hci stable.
> 
> But I'm very confident with these settings for 24/7 now. Did a 5 minute warm-up hci run and then ran 1000% hci without any air flow on a test bench (see hwinfo temp min/max and graph)
> 
> not quite < 33ns latency, but that is due to tXP 5 and tRFC 370 for stability reasons
> 
> G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x 8GB, Samsung 8Gb B-Die, A2 pcb), Maximus XII Apex


Color me impressed. I was even more impressed when I noticed the 1T.


----------



## nick name

eeeven said:


> Finally made the 4700 17-17-17-32-320 stable on XI Apex. I needed more DMI Voltage. Karhu stopped at 7% on everything below 1,15v.


This is also impressive seeing as you're starting with a 3200C14 kit.


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> *1000% HCI 4700 MHz CL17-17-17-37 1T 1.55 Vdimm, 0.7375 VTT DDR, 1.6 Vsa *
> 
> I call this "the troll kit", piece of cake to get 400% hci stable, pain in the a** to get 1000% hci stable.
> 
> But I'm very confident with these settings for 24/7 now. Did a 5 minute warm-up hci run and then ran 1000% hci without any air flow on a test bench (see hwinfo temp min/max and graph)
> 
> not quite < 33ns latency, but that is due to tXP 5 and tRFC 370 for stability reasons
> 
> G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x 8GB, Samsung 8Gb B-Die, A2 pcb), Maximus XII Apex


Nice job


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP I tested that tip regarding dr settings and it made a massive difference :thumb:
> I'm pretty impressed with the 2 dimm DR setup so far and even if I don't get the frequency much higher I could live with the current result
> That said I will see how far I can get it after work tomorrow


Looking good mate 

I found 4000C17D-32GTRGB was just out at newegg. Ordered 2 to see how fast it will be.


----------



## opt33

Not testing long enough was problem I had with 4133c16 instability/game crashing. 1.32 vccsa OK for 30mins of prime large, hci 500%, gsat 1hour, but needed 1.33 sa to stop intermittent game crashing and run hci overnight 1600% without errors (and probably prime longer). Thought SA 1.32 already high for 4133 why I kept changing other settings/vdimm instead of SA...maybe mine needs more sa since using 2 dimm on GB t-topo or just my imc? Below 1.30 sa on prime most threads quit from rounding errors.

first pic is log of 1.32 sa run at 4133c16 where 1st error occurs at ~800% (had passed anta777), should have taken pic of it running but was too irritated. Raised vdimm, backed off settings, and tried box fan to lower temps below 40C, still rare random lone errors only stopped after SA increased. 

second pic is 1 of 3 overnight 1600+% hci memtest with no errors (no more game crashes), still walking down trfc/increasing trefi with vdimm at 1.47/1.48vdimm since lone error problem sorted.
also need to redo my water loop and make room for better ram fan, 80mm 1900rpm ram fan is quiet, but moves little air only reduces temps 3-4C.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

opt33 said:


> Not testing long enough was problem I had with 4133c16 instability/game crashing. 1.32 vccsa OK for 30mins of prime large, hci 500%, gsat 1hour, but needed 1.33 sa to stop intermittent game crashing and run hci overnight 1600% without errors (and probably prime longer). Thought SA 1.32 already high for 4133 why I kept changing other settings/vdimm instead of SA...maybe mine needs more sa since using 2 dimm on GB t-topo or just my imc? Below 1.30 sa on prime most threads quit from rounding errors.
> 
> first pic is log of 1.32 sa run at 4133c16 where 1st error occurs at ~800% (had passed anta777), should have taken pic of it running but was too irritated. Raised vdimm, backed off settings, and tried box fan to lower temps below 40C, still rare random lone errors only stopped after SA increased.
> 
> second pic is 1 of 3 overnight 1600+% hci memtest with no errors (no more game crashes), still walking down trefi/ trfc with vdimm at 1.47/1.48vdimm since lone error problem sorted.
> also need to redo my water loop and make room for better ram fan, 80mm 1900rpm ram fan is quiet, but moves little air only reduces temps 3-4C.


nice that you finded your issue and im glad your sorted out..

im telling you guys *you need to test LONGER.* reaching 400-1000% on hci or ramtest for that matter on those fast sticks is nothing you have to let them brake in (GET HOT) and crunch away those sticks good...

because like i said, you start having issues.. everything start needing volts there and there you think the ram overclock is good but cpu needed lil bit more on that. first thing i overclock on a new build is ram then i go from there...


----------



## opt33

zGunBLADEz said:


> nice that you finded your issue and im glad your sorted out..
> 
> im telling you guys *you need to test LONGER. reaching 400-1000% on hci or ramtest for that matter on those fast sticks is nothing you have to let them brake in (GET HOT) and crunch away those sticks good...
> 
> because like i said, you start having issues.. everything start needing volts there and there you think the ram overclock is good but cpu needed lil bit more on that. first thing i overclock on a new build is ram then i go from there...*


*

yeah I even tried 4133c17 with looser settings (instead of 4133c16).. still didnt figure out it was SA too low yet, but did realize I wasnt testing long enough... still have pic of 4133c17 passing anta777 1.5hrs, going to bed with hci no errors over 300%, then by am had 4 errors on hci memtest by 1500% (because SA 1.32 instead of 1.33).*


----------



## zGunBLADEz

opt33 said:


> yeah I even tried 4133c17 with looser settings (instead of 4133c16).. still didnt figure out it was SA too low yet, but did realize I wasnt testing long enough... still have pic of 4133c17 passing anta777 1.5hrs, going to bed with hci no errors over 300%, then by am had 4 errors on hci memtest by 1500% (because SA 1.32 instead of 1.33).


im using variations as well, so i know for sure the sticks have the right timings and the right voltages.. If you see a couple pages back i have put some of my runs.. i started with ramtest long runs, then i started variating with anta777 extreme 1 cycles (i kinda like the best cfg of tm5 so far have manage to put out quick errors in that one so im going to keep using it) it takes like an 1hr and half in this setup for 64gb the 3 cycle run is like almost 5hrs long, ollie 1 cycle is like 25min... this depending the mhz/timings for the eta and if im using the pc or not lol... so what i do, do a long run from ramtest then throw back to back anta777 extreme 1 cycle.. then notch rinse and repeat.. Then of course the blessings from my part the HCI runs lol.. yeah RUNS.. MULTIPLES!!!! after that i dont worry about the kit anymore lol

yeah it sucks!!!!!! trust me... to leave the crap running to see it fail in single/two digits % lol like 3-5 minutes into it and you thinking is going to be cool and still running...

Also forgot to mention there are games that use avx code so doing p95 to test ram on not avx p95 and just sse is kinda wuak xD for gaming purposes so thats that.. How you know if the game use avx? Try using the avx offset and your cpu will downclock to the offset xD if theres one put in place.. Thats the easy way to know how if the game uses avx code.. You can go the other way or p95 avx with all the flying colors and power virus the crap out of it lol or linpack extreme so you can ocp those power supplys 😛... Still going to face issues..


----------



## cstkl1

opt33 said:


> yeah I even tried 4133c17 with looser settings (instead of 4133c16).. still didnt figure out it was SA too low yet, but did realize I wasnt testing long enough... still have pic of 4133c17 passing anta777 1.5hrs, going to bed with hci no errors over 300%, then by am had 4 errors on hci memtest by 1500% (because SA 1.32 instead of 1.33).


Your instability is on mobo combination. Imagine alot of voltages is fluctuating. At one given point data gets corrupted. 

Just run

Fft112 avx disable..Nuff said. That will give a workout for cpu voltages/imc and ram. Since this insane on transient.


----------



## skullbringer

fuc king FINALLY

*1500% HCI 4800 MHz CL17-17-17-37 1T 1.57 Vdimm, 0.7375 VTT DDR, 1.625 Vsa *

this kit with 1.57 Vdimm becomes unstable at ~44 C, so had to point a fan at the dimms. also needed to raise tRFC to 420 and tRTP to 9 to avoid group errors, but got IO-L's lower by 1 due to higher clock at same timings. 

G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x 8GB, Samsung 8Gb B-Die, A2 pcb), Maximus XII Apex 0088 bios

so uhm, any recommendations for good 2 dimm ram waterblocks?


----------



## reflex75

skullbringer said:


> *1000% HCI 4700 MHz CL17-17-17-37 1T 1.55 Vdimm, 0.7375 VTT DDR, 1.6 Vsa *
> 
> I call this "the troll kit", piece of cake to get 400% hci stable, pain in the a** to get 1000% hci stable.
> 
> But I'm very confident with these settings for 24/7 now. Did a 5 minute warm-up hci run and then ran 1000% hci without any air flow on a test bench (see hwinfo temp min/max and graph)
> 
> not quite < 33ns latency, but that is due to tXP 5 and tRFC 370 for stability reasons
> 
> G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x 8GB, Samsung 8Gb B-Die, A2 pcb), Maximus XII Apex


Impressive to achieve that speed and keep it stable at 48c!!
Congrats!


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> fuc king FINALLY
> 
> *1500% HCI 4800 MHz CL17-17-17-37 1T 1.57 Vdimm, 0.7375 VTT DDR, 1.625 Vsa *
> 
> this kit with 1.57 Vdimm becomes unstable at ~44 C, so had to point a fan at the dimms. also needed to raise tRFC to 420 and tRTP to 9 to avoid group errors, but got IO-L's lower by 1 due to higher clock at same timings.
> 
> G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x 8GB, Samsung 8Gb B-Die, A2 pcb), Maximus XII Apex 0088 bios
> 
> so uhm, any recommendations for good 2 dimm ram waterblocks?


Wow!! Nice ns 
I use the EK Monarch ram cooling which seems ok. The ram hits 30°c @ 4600c17 ambient ~20°c


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

1,000%/8.5 hours hci is fine for a gaming PC lol. Ram actually got hotter during the test than it does when I game with everything else on full blast and no air conditioning running in both scenarios, water also reached equilibrium in the aio/rad. Also, rumor has it that high performance ram stick manufacturers test xmp for 8 hours and ship it off to be sold, according to reddit.


Also, I highly recommend doing ram tests OFFLINE WITH NO ETHERNET CABLE OR WIFI on a fresh windows install, fresh bios flash every time. Don't even plug your ethernet cable or turn wifi back on until you've already screenshotted/videoed and saved the fully completed results.


----------



## Betroz

XGS-Duplicity said:


> Also, I highly recommend doing ram tests OFFLINE WITH NO ETHERNET CABLE OR WIFI on a fresh windows install, bios flash every time. Don't even plug your ethernet cable or turn wifi back on until you've already screenshotted/videoed and saved the fully completed results.


LOL


----------



## Rich1e

Right now I'm choosing between Patriot Viper Steels 4400 cl19 and G.skill f4-3600c15d-16gtz.
Which kit will be better? Price is roughly equal


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Rich1e said:


> Right now I'm choosing between Patriot Viper Steels 4400 cl19 and G.skill f4-3600c15d-16gtz.
> Which kit will be better? Price is roughly equal


3600c15d with temp sensors


----------



## munternet

Rich1e said:


> Right now I'm choosing between Patriot Viper Steels 4400 cl19 and G.skill f4-3600c15d-16gtz.
> Which kit will be better? Price is roughly equal


f4-3600c15d-16gtz in my opinion


----------



## Rich1e

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3600c15d with temp sensors


 Do they have it ? :thinking:
MB is msi unify btw.
They cost even less then steels in my country. 135 euros.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> Your instability is on mobo combination. Imagine alot of voltages is fluctuating. At one given point data gets corrupted.
> 
> Just run
> 
> Fft112 avx disable..Nuff said. That will give a workout for cpu voltages/imc and ram. Since this insane on transient.


This. 
This.

Seriously.
You guys (not you) are passing TM5 extreme1 and then are complaining that HCI (or Karhu) fails at 1000%?
If you guys had just run prime95 112k-112k in-place fixed FFT with AVX DISABLED, you may have seen in 10 minutes if it was unstable or not, rather than having to wait a few hours for HCI to report an error at 1000%...

Sometimes you can force unstable 112k to force crash instantly.
Run TM5 extreme1 for 5 minutes, then exit it.
Then immediately run 112k disabled AVX.
This is much faster than running 112k in-place right after booting windows.
This can sometimes cause a 30 second thread instacrash if you're not stable. Sometimes on multiple threads.

But there's so much hate for prime95 in general here no one wants to use it even if it's faster than Karhu or HCI...
112k does really strange stuff to the system even if only a tiny segment of RAM is addressed--if there's a problem with the IMC accessing that RAM or some bad timing or subtiming, 112k WILL crash. Especially on the Pentium 4 part....

I haven't yet tested if 112k with "custom" RAM size will work as a valid test or not, instead of "in-place fixed". I'm sure some crazy person here will test that out too and soon no one will use anything except Extreme1 anta777 and 112K from now on....or maybe that new OCCT beta "RAM test" now....


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Rich1e said:


> Do they have it ? :thinking:
> MB is msi unify btw.
> They cost even less then steels in my country. 135 euros.


Yup, I can confirm they have it. Z490 Unify is a great board, plus the support from TOPPC Lin


----------



## opt33

Falkentyne said:


> This.
> This.
> 
> Seriously.
> You guys (not you) are passing TM5 extreme1 and then are complaining that HCI (or Karhu) fails at 1000%?
> If you guys had just run prime95 112k-112k in-place fixed FFT with AVX DISABLED, you may have seen in 10 minutes if it was unstable or not, rather than having to wait a few hours for HCI to report an error at 1000%...
> 
> Sometimes you can force unstable 112k to force crash instantly.
> Run TM5 extreme1 for 5 minutes, then exit it.
> Then immediately run 112k disabled AVX.
> This is much faster than running 112k in-place right after booting windows.
> This can sometimes cause a 30 second thread instacrash if you're not stable. Sometimes on multiple threads.
> 
> But there's so much hate for prime95 in general here no one wants to use it even if it's faster than Karhu or HCI...
> 112k does really strange stuff to the system even if only a tiny segment of RAM is addressed--if there's a problem with the IMC accessing that RAM or some bad timing or subtiming, 112k WILL crash. Especially on the Pentium 4 part....
> 
> I haven't yet tested if 112k with "custom" RAM size will work as a valid test or not, instead of "in-place fixed". I'm sure some crazy person here will test that out too and soon no one will use anything except Extreme1 anta777 and 112K from now on....or maybe that new OCCT beta "RAM test" now....


Dont disagree with anything you said, but I had run 256 large ffts and 112 large ffts, just from prior suggestions...even stated that running prime (which was 112k) with SA volts at 1.30 caused most my threads to crash in minutes, but passed 20-30 minutes with vccsa increased to 1.32. Hence I used 1.32 for many hci runs. unfortunately I need 1.33 SA to be stable. And as I said, had I run prime longer than 30 mins, may have picked up the error and increased to 1.33 for 4133c16.

I always use prime to ensure cpu stable, have multiple runs with small and large, so no issue with it. Though used to run it for 12 hours, now run prime shorter times because of amps, then bump up vcore notch higher for margin of error, probably should have known to bump up SA for same margin of error, since running prime too short time.

But regardless, stable now that found issue.


----------



## ViTosS

In my case I was stable in every stress test (TM5, HCI, Karhu, GSAT), but as soon as I ran 112k I had workers crashing and WHEA Errors, so I just raised my VCCSA and fixed it, but I was stable in everything else before it, except 112k 

Edit.: Just to inform, CPU was stable in RealBench 2.56 8h and also x264 Custom Loop at the same VCCSA I used when it first crashed in 112k, not sure if the instability was related to RAM directly or CPU, but increasing VCCSA a little bit solved it.


----------



## munternet

Rich1e said:


> Right now I'm choosing between Patriot Viper Steels 4400 cl19 and G.skill f4-3600c15d-16gtz.
> Which kit will be better? Price is roughly equal


I should mention that some of the f4-3600c15d-16gtz marketed for z170 might be A1 PCB with the older, larger b-die chips as happened to me with one of my two sets of f4-4400c19d-16gtz


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

can someone who has experience with hci memtestpro v7 explain why it says it can allocate maximum 3500mb per thread, but it only lets me allocate 3000mb per thread? I'm testing with HT off right now so 8 threads x 3000 + windows usage is about 81% of ram(4x8gb). How do I allocate more ram so I can test 95% of total ram?


----------



## JoeRambo

Rich1e said:


> Do they have it ? :thinking:
> MB is msi unify btw.
> They cost even less then steels in my country. 135 euros.


I have this exact setup. 2 Kits + MSI Unify. Rock solid combo. Ran 4133C16, settled on 3900C15 for daily due to low voltages required.


----------



## XGS-Duplicity

Well well good news and bad news 



The good news is someone texted me to buy my PC from me! Bad news is i won't be overclocking anymore, or at least not for a long time until i can afford to buy another PC. Thanks for all your help, it was fun. See you on the other side. @ENTERPRISE please remove this account from the website, thanks for having me


----------



## munternet

It's been interesting bud :thumb:
You will have to find something else to channel your energy


----------



## Betroz

That's the good thing about a forum like this, we can help others simply by posting a screenshot of our OC settings, and sharing our knowledge. Everybody wins


----------



## munternet

Speaking of overclock settings...
2*16GB G.Skills 36c16
Not fully tested but these sticks seem pretty solid if kept under 40°c
I will have to skin them and add some EK Monarch plates and do some refining, but this looks near the limit without getting too silly on the voltages
Pretty happy with the Aida score


----------



## skullbringer

@XGS-Duplicity cheers for all the insight and knowledge you provided, hope you'll be back soon!


----------



## skullbringer

dang, it's damn near impossible to get a 2dimm waterblock in Europe

anyone have experience with this Bitspower one? 
https://www.highflow.nl/watercoolin...oling-block-2-dimms-black-bp-rams22-bkbk.html


----------



## itssladenlol

So guys, 

My f4-3200c14d-32GTZR 2x16GB just came in and I have to say wow....

I didnt test 10 Kits, Not even 5 Kits, just this one Kit and out of the Box it does 4400 c16 1,54v with really really tight sub Timings... 

Ill Post some Screenshots when memtest is finished.
All i can say now is it does 66000+read/write and 65000+ copy. 

Running Asus maximus XII hero and 10900k.

I think i found my memory After testing 10 trident Z royal quad Kits and other countless memory. 

Finally 32GB ram with nice speed.


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> 2*16GB G.Skills 36c16
> Not fully tested but these sticks seem pretty solid if kept under 40°c


Have U tested them without watercooling? In the other 9900K PC I have the 3200C14 version of these G.Skill 16GB sticks, and they run hot even at 3600C15 1.40v... About 50-52C under load with the second Noctua fan beside them on a D15S cooler.
Edit : the mem kit was made in 2019 btw.


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> dang, it's damn near impossible to get a 2dimm waterblock in Europe
> 
> anyone have experience with this Bitspower one?
> https://www.highflow.nl/watercoolin...oling-block-2-dimms-black-bp-rams22-bkbk.html


I and Carillo has Bitspower one.
https://www.techbay.no/product.html...imm--kobber/nikkel-klar-akryl?category_id=142


EK 2dimm monarch is EOL.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> I and Carillo has Bitspower one.
> https://www.techbay.no/product.html...imm--kobber/nikkel-klar-akryl?category_id=142


No wonder U guys can run 4700C17 CR1 tweaked


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> No wonder U guys can run 4700C17 CR1 tweaked


I haven't monted mine yet on my Team extreem  Looks like the heatspreader is pretty good. Way better than g.skill.

I'm going to mount it on my new g.skill 4000c19 2x16GB. This is going to be hot in lian-li O11


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Have U tested them without watercooling? In the other 9900K PC I have the 3200C14 version of these G.Skill 16GB sticks, and they run hot even at 3600C15 1.40v... About 50-52C under load with the second Noctua fan beside them on a D15S cooler.
> Edit : the mem kit was made in 2019 btw.


Seems a little hot. I haven't water cooled mine yet and at 4000c16 they ran low 30°c with 1/2 hour TM5 Ollie and only a gentle breeze blowing over them.
With 4400c17 they started to warm up to about 40°c (where they error) after 5 minutes Ollie.
We are in the middle of winter and my house isn't well insulated so we seldom get to 20°c.
@itssladenlol has the same set as you doesn't he?


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> Betroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have U tested them without watercooling? In the other 9900K PC I have the 3200C14 version of these G.Skill 16GB sticks, and they run hot even at 3600C15 1.40v... About 50-52C under load with the second Noctua fan beside them on a D15S cooler.
> Edit : the mem kit was made in 2019 btw.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems a little hot. I haven't water cooled mine yet and at 4000c16 they ran low 30Â°c with 1/2 hour TM5 Ollie and only a gentle breeze blowing over them.
> With 4400c17 they started to warm up to about 40Â°c (where they error) after 5 minutes Ollie.
> We are in the middle of winter and my house isn't well insulated so we seldom get to 20Â°c.
> 
> @itssladenlol has the same set as you doesn't he?
Click to expand...

Yes i have the Same Set, peaks at 46C under heavy load at 4400 c16 1,51v


But now i have another Problem, how to get over 4400 on maximus XII hero?
I can even Put 1,7v but 4500 and 4533 wont Boot no matter what. 
Any special Modes in BIOS or is 4400 the Wall for hero? 

Cause i saw someone Here running Same ram 4533 dual rank on msi board. 

Any help would be appreciated


----------



## zGunBLADEz

munternet said:


> Speaking of overclock settings...
> 2*16GB G.Skills 36c16
> Not fully tested but these sticks seem pretty solid if kept under 40°c
> I will have to skin them and add some EK Monarch plates and do some refining, but this looks near the limit without getting too silly on the voltages
> Pretty happy with the Aida score


thats pretty nice indeed ..

for high density and dr thats awesome.. cheers
when you add the aftermarket heatsinks make sure to use some thermal paste on the side that screws because of ics in both sides so it transfers the heat better to the whole metal as a whole.. im still debating if to throw mine on the loop i dont see no reason to yet..


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> Have U tested them without watercooling? In the other 9900K PC I have the 3200C14 version of these G.Skill 16GB sticks, and they run hot even at 3600C15 1.40v... About 50-52C under load with the second Noctua fan beside them on a D15S cooler.
> Edit : the mem kit was made in 2019 btw.


yeah they do run hot without fan i saw them peaking at 48-50c (around 90f ambients not cold yet here is getting chilly now lol) on below 1.45v "1.43v with vdroop on place" with my testing using my ir gun. but, usually i throw active cooling when stress testing ram..


----------



## zGunBLADEz

skullbringer said:


> dang, it's damn near impossible to get a 2dimm waterblock in Europe
> 
> anyone have experience with this Bitspower one?
> https://www.highflow.nl/watercoolin...oling-block-2-dimms-black-bp-rams22-bkbk.html





Nizzen said:


> I and Carillo has Bitspower one.
> https://www.techbay.no/product.html...imm--kobber/nikkel-klar-akryl?category_id=142
> 
> 
> EK 2dimm monarch is EOL.


performancepcs still have 2dimm


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> performancepcs still have 2dimm


Nice find 

Must be the last stock in the world


----------



## skullbringer

itssladenlol said:


> Yes i have the Same Set, peaks at 46C under heavy load at 4400 c16 1,51v
> 
> 
> But now i have another Problem, how to get over 4400 on maximus XII hero?
> I can even Put 1,7v but 4500 and 4533 wont Boot no matter what.
> Any special Modes in BIOS or is 4400 the Wall for hero?
> 
> Cause i saw someone Here running Same ram 4533 dual rank on msi board.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated


I have the GTZN version of that kit and on the Apex I can not boot/train 4300. However at the same voltage and timings, I can train 4400. Maybe some weirdness with the IMC and dr modules, dunno.

Had the idea that 4400 is a 100:133 clock, so I tried the next one down with same voltages and timings, also did not train, so ***. 

Is behavior on your Hero also that the system just keeps boot looping, never gets stuck on any postcode and then eventually just enters safe mode?

Maybe try a clock step higher or lower


----------



## skullbringer

Something interesting I've noticed playing with Samsung 8Gbit B-Die Single Rank and Dual Rank kits. For the sake of simplicity, in the following I just call Samsung 8Gbit B-Die, B-Die.

When overclocking for 24/7 you really can't go above ~1.6 Vdimm due to temperature sensitivity. To increase stability near this max Vdimm edge, you can tweak VTT DDR, which can help a lot. Where with stock VTT DDR you would get errors in HCI at around 200%, tweaked VTT DDR can give you 2000%+ stability.

Stock VTT DDR is Vdimm / 2, e.g. 1.6 Vdimm -> 0.8 V VTT DDR.

Now from my limited experience, B-Die Single Rank likes to have about 50-100 mV lower VTT DDR, so e.g. 1.6 Vdimm -> 0.7 - 0.75 V VTT DDR.

On the other hand, B-Die Dual Rank likes the opposite, about 50-100 mV higher VTT DDR, so e.g. 1.6 Vdimm -> 0.85 - 0.9 V VTT DDR.

I can only theorize as to why, maybe due to voltage droop? So single rank = less chips = less resistance = lower droop = lower required VTT DDR at VRM out, and vice versa... but tbh I don't even know where VTT DDR is generated, so total long shot on that theory...

Can anyone confirm this behavior with experiences with their b-die kits?


----------



## munternet

Getting respectable read, write and copy 
Have to fully test stability on the weekend


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> Getting respectable read, write and copy
> Have to fully test stability on the weekend


Nice result!

Looks like 16GB dimms is the new 8GB


----------



## ogider

2x16GB 3200c14 cpu 5.0/4.7
This is not a stable setting. For it to be stable, probably closer to 1.65V, I would have to set it. So I won't fight for it


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> Getting respectable read, write and copy /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Have to fully test stability on the weekend


I must be doing something wrong, i have Same Timings speed etc with my dual ranks but only get 65000 and 40,6 NS(no txp ppd tweak)

Does RTL and iol help that much? 
Thats the only thing i havent done


----------



## cstkl1

itssladenlol said:


> Yes i have the Same Set, peaks at 46C under heavy load at 4400 c16 1,51v
> 
> 
> But now i have another Problem, how to get over 4400 on maximus XII hero?
> I can even Put 1,7v but 4500 and 4533 wont Boot no matter what.
> Any special Modes in BIOS or is 4400 the Wall for hero?
> 
> Cause i saw someone Here running Same ram 4533 dual rank on msi board.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated


Bdies need to run certain range of timings (low timings)
For rest of the training to occur. 

Also vdimm range and vccio/vcssa has to be a certain range

Cache overclocking can actually force stable so higher actually better as long your cpu is locked in to run even linpack/Prime avx2..

But curious since alot of ppl here claiming m12e and hero da same.. i like to see dat since da hero has the same dimm setup and formula. So by extension the dimm clocking should be da same.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

munternet said:


> Getting respectable read, write and copy /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Have to fully test stability on the weekend


What stick u using? I have 4000c19 -and cant do 17-17-17-34. I can do 17-18-18-38 at 4400 but my latency is 38 something. How can u go that low?


----------



## eeeven

My 4800 Test went succesfully. But i need too high IO/SA Voltages to do longer Stability Tests. I dont wanna degrade my CPU IMC.

4800 17-17-17-34-340


----------



## skullbringer

eeeven said:


> My 4800 Test went succesfully. But i need too high IO/SA Voltages to do longer Stability Tests. I dont wanna degrade my CPU IMC.
> 
> 4800 17-17-17-34-340


do you really need 1.55 VCCIO for stability? Usually 1.4V should be plenty for anything up to 5000 MHz RAM clock. Also VCCIO is the voltage that is more prone to cause degrading when set to high. 1.4-1.45V is considered max safe for VCCIO.

1.55V SA is normal for that sort of clock. People on here have allegedly been running 1.65V SA on Coffee Lake for a year now, for 4700 C17 stability, so higher VSA seems fine I guess...


----------



## Nizzen

eeeven said:


> My 4800 Test went succesfully. But i need too high IO/SA Voltages to do longer Stability Tests. I dont wanna degrade my CPU IMC.
> 
> 4800 17-17-17-34-340


1.55vsa is not high 

1.8v is high 

1.6-1.65vsa is normal for 4700+ c17


----------



## skullbringer

itssladenlol said:


> I must be doing something wrong, i have Same Timings speed etc with my dual ranks but only get 65000 and 40,6 NS(no txp ppd tweak)
> 
> Does RTL and iol help that much?
> Thats the only thing i havent done


RTLs/IOLs dont do much for bandwidth and only a little bit for latency. I'd guess something with your tertiary timings is off, as those are what mostly influence bandwidth. 

Can you post all your timings so we can have a look? ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.3 works on most boards.


----------



## nick name

https://download.asrock.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4).zip


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> Getting respectable read, write and copy
> Have to fully test stability on the weekend


Trying 2x16 4000c19 tridentz now. 4400c17-17-17 is too hard for memorytest 

4400c17-18-17 TRFC=340 (Auto on the rest) is running now memorytest. @ 500% now. I think I found the "max" 1. timings for my sticks 

4600 c17 was no chance.

I think this is a good base for further tweaking. It's way harder than 2x8GB to get memtest stable LOL


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Why my latency is so high? Need some help.


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Why my latency is so high? Need some help.


Load this profile, and set 4400mhz first.

Then run Aida64 

If this works, try 4600mhz

This is the "endgame" profile


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> Thanh Nguyen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why my latency is so high? Need some help.
> 
> 
> 
> Load this profile, and set 4400mhz first.
> 
> Then run Aida64 /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> If this works, try 4600mhz
> 
> This is the "endgame" profile /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Click to expand...

Broken image


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Broken image


Try now
------

Trying Ramtest:


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Try now
> ------
> 
> Trying Ramtest:


 Needs some little tricks to train those timings properly.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Why my latency is so high? Need some help.


tXP=4 and PPD=0


----------



## reflex75

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Needs some small tricks to train those timings properly.


[email protected] is great!
Especially with double side sticks at 1.55v!
But I guess it's not stable at higher temp for daily usage...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reflex75 said:


> [email protected] is great!
> Especially with double side sticks at 1.55v!
> But I guess it's not stable at higher temp for daily usage...


up to 54c TM5 ollie stable...Fine tuning the volts now, trying to make it to 60c.


----------



## skullbringer

2x 16GB dual rank B-Die is surprisingly fun


----------



## reflex75

skullbringer said:


> 2x 16GB dual rank B-Die is surprisingly fun


Damn these Apex boards are crazy fast!
Only 2 dimms was a drawback limiting to 2x8GB, but now with fast 2x16GB they are really shining!
But 5.3Ghz cache to improve latency, is it legal?!


----------



## reflex75

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> up to 54c TM5 ollie stable...Fine tuning the volts now, trying to make it to 60c.


54c is already very respectable to keep stability for memory that fast!
It depends on your use case (benching, gaming, computing...) and your case airflow to reach max temp during your worst scenario (GPU+CPU+summer...)


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Thanh Nguyen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why my latency is so high? Need some help.
> 
> 
> 
> tXP=4 and PPD=0
Click to expand...

Already did it. Man I can only boot at 17-18-38. Is it because my stick or the imc? No boot at 17-17-37 and u even running at 16-16-32.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Already did it. Man I can only boot at 17-18-38. Is it because my stick or the imc? No boot at 17-17-37 and u even running at 16-16-32.


Try ODT 80-40-(34~60)

tRDRD_dr has to be 6.

If that wouldn't help it should be your sticks. IMC should be fine before 4700.


----------



## itssladenlol

skullbringer said:


> RTLs/IOLs dont do much for bandwidth and only a little bit for latency. I'd guess something with your tertiary timings is off, as those are what mostly influence bandwidth.
> 
> Can you post all your timings so we can have a look? ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.3 works on most boards.


Here are my Timings, RTL's IoL's and other stuff, tell me if something is configured wrong with timings and if my rtls and iols are bad 

17/18/18/37 is final, anything lower gives errors.now its rockstable.just wanna know if my secondaries are set right or if there are errors or room for improvement


----------



## munternet

nick name said:


> https://download.asrock.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.4).zip


This version doesn't work for Z490



Thanh Nguyen said:


> What stick u using? I have 4000c19 -and cant do 17-17-17-34. I can do 17-18-18-38 at 4400 but my latency is 38 something. How can u go that low?


Sticks are F4-3600C16D-32GTZR but I hear the 3200c14 work similar and are cheaper



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Needs some little tricks to train those timings properly.


Nice work bud :thumb:



skullbringer said:


> 2x 16GB dual rank B-Die is surprisingly fun


Wow, your kit always seems to do the job. Do you have that CPU insured


----------



## skullbringer

itssladenlol said:


> Here are my Timings, RTL's IoL's and other stuff, tell me if something is configured wrong with timings and if my rtls and iols are bad
> 
> 17/18/18/37 is final, anything lower gives errors.now its rockstable.just wanna know if my secondaries are set right or if there are errors or room for improvement


I don't see anything obviously wrong. Only weird thing to me is tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg are the same, usually sg is 4-5 higher than dg, so like 28-24 e.g. these are important as tWRL_r and _l are dependent from and calculated based of those.

but I don't think those 2 timings alone could cause like 5ns of latency loss. Is there maybe something else running on your pc that is keeping memory busy, like a pesky windows upgrade in the background or something like that?


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> Do you have that CPU insured


hahaha I've actually given that some thought. But I think Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan does not cover delidded cpus, does it?


----------



## itssladenlol

skullbringer said:


> I don't see anything obviously wrong. Only weird thing to me is tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg are the same, usually sg is 4-5 higher than dg, so like 28-24 e.g. these are important as tWRL_r and _l are dependent from and calculated based of those.
> 
> but I don't think those 2 timings alone could cause like 5ns of latency loss. Is there maybe something else running on your pc that is keeping memory busy, like a pesky windows upgrade in the background or something like that?


im not running the txp/ppd tweak, but no my system is really clean got same ns on windows 7 and windows 10.
with 7700k i had 44,6ns with 4,9ghz and 3600 cl16 memory.
i thought my ns is fine cause i saw someone here with same timings and ram speed for dual rank 2x16gb setup and he had same ns as i had.

changed dg to 24, nothing changed.

with the txp ppd tweak i got 38.2ns, guess its just down to rtl and iol now to drop off the last 2 or 3 ns but im too dumb to do it lol.


----------



## propsandmayhem

My current daily with 4 dimms but who knew that 4600+ is possible on CFL.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

What can I do to make it better?


----------



## munternet

Thanh Nguyen said:


> What can I do to make it better?


Is that throwing any errors if you run testmem5 extreme for 2 minutes?
RTLs might be able to drop for latency
The numbers on the right could be dropped for read,write and copy 
I like tWR 16


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

At least 20 errors within 2m. Guess its not stable. I notice when the ram hit 50c, those errors appear.


----------



## Falkentyne

Thanh Nguyen said:


> At least 20 errors within 2m. Guess its not stable. I notice when the ram hit 50c, those errors appear.


dual rank 16/16/16/32 is not easy to stabilize at 4400...
it's very hard. 

And I think you should loosen tras. tras window is too small. Try 36 or 38. (Cas+tRCD/tRP = tRAS is too small. Should be at least +2 absolute minimum
That is because tRTP is also involved in this window.
ideally a perfect window is tCAS + tRCD + tRTP=tRAS, and tWR=2x tRTP, but tRTP value can be higher than this for more stability easily, just absolutely not smaller. 

You can try 16/16/16/38 or 16/16/16/36. Might help a little.
32 is too yeet.


----------



## munternet

Thanh Nguyen said:


> At least 20 errors within 2m. Guess its not stable. I notice when the ram hit 50c, those errors appear.


You might consider a nice tight 4400c17 first to get comfortable with the settings
If you can stabilize 4400c16 on 2*16GB DR you will be doing VERY well 
How many seconds in before the errors appeared?
Maybe you shouldn't run windows with those settings
With that many errors it may be hard for windows to keep up with error correction and you might corrupt your OS or any software you have open


----------



## munternet

Is anyone having problems with TurboV_Core on Z490 when changing voltages?
I have been getting freezes and having to reboot with 1.02.02 and 1.05.06


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> Is anyone having problems with TurboV_Core on Z490 when changing voltages?
> I have been getting freezes and having to reboot with 1.02.02 and 1.05.06


1.10.07 has been working pretty good for me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzyzlf9cjneul9p/TurboV_Core_1.10.07.zip?dl=0 from https://community.hwbot.org/topic/196740-rog-maximus-xii-apex/

muiti, cache, core voltage, vccio, vccsa, vdimm, vttddr all no issue. only weirdness I've noticed sometimes mutli gets a -1 offset when you are changing it mid stress test


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> 1.10.07 has been working pretty good for me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzyzlf9cjneul9p/TurboV_Core_1.10.07.zip?dl=0 from https://community.hwbot.org/topic/196740-rog-maximus-xii-apex/
> 
> muiti, cache, core voltage, vccio, vccsa, vdimm, vttddr all no issue. only weirdness I've noticed sometimes mutli gets a -1 offset when you are changing it mid stress test


Cheers mate :thumb: +1 rep
Do you use all those settings?
I obviously have a bit to learn


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> Cheers mate :thumb: +1 rep
> 
> Do you use all those settings?
> 
> I obviously have a bit to learn


appreciate it 

yep, and combined with memtweakit 2.02.48 I do 90% of my memory oc in OS, just so much quicker without all the rebooting in between. ofc for final validation of your settings you still need to set them in bios and see if they train reliably [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> Is anyone having problems with TurboV_Core on Z490 when changing voltages?
> I have been getting freezes and having to reboot with 1.02.02 and 1.05.06


That's a really really old version. 
Mine's 1.10.08, which may have been a bugfix for windows XP, but the previous 1.10.07 is fine too.


----------



## bpars

Hi, I've got 4x8GB sticks of Viper 4400 that my Aorus Z390 Ultra isn't happy with running at the rated 4400 (19-19-19-39), manual settings or XMP mode. I've read Aorus Z390 Pro-Master are mediocre memory OC'ers and aren't often happy with >4200Mhz mem unless you run much higher volts (1.5V+). I have a sweetheart of a 9900k w/ copper IHS that runs [email protected] with low temps that I'd like to hold on to, rather than side/down-grade to 10700k just to gain access to a Z490 board. 

Wondering if I should swap this MB for a used ASUS Z390 Apex or Gene XI (better memory OC'ers) or maybe buy 4x8GB TeamGroup 4133 sticks and see how they do since they're supposedly a hair better than Viper 4400.

What would you guys do?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bpars said:


> Hi, I've got 4x8GB sticks of Viper 4400 that my Aorus Z390 Ultra isn't happy with running at the rated 4400 (19-19-19-39), manual settings or XMP mode


Let me stop you right here. 2 dimm kits like the Viper are rated in a 2 dimm config. Running 4 dimms will lower your peak stable speed every time. I also have 2 kits of Patriot Viper Steel 4400 with a 10700k and my best result is 4266 16-16-16-36. I can’t boot with all 4 dimms at XMP speeds.


----------



## bpars

0451 said:


> Let me stop you right here. 2 dimm kits like the Viper are rated in a 2 dimm config. Running 4 dimms will lower your peak stable speed every time. I also have 2 kits of Patriot Viper Steel 4400 with a 10700k and my best result is 4266 16-16-16-36. I can’t boot with all 4 dimms at XMP speeds.


Well Gigabyte Z390 Aorus is T-Topology so it actually requires 4 x Dimms to get to the higher frequencies that 2 x Dimms cannot, unlike lots of other Z390 boards that are daisy-chain.

BTW you have the MSI Z490 Unify I've had my eye on after Buildzoid's video OC'ing Viper4400 on that board. Have you seen the video?


----------



## Nizzen

Want 32GB fast ram? Buy 2x16GB like g.skill 3600c16-16-16 or g.skill 4000c19-19-19 and use Asus Apex z490. 4400c17 easy

Want 16GB REALLY fast ram? Buy a good kit of b-die ram, then use Asus z490 Apex  4700c17 easy

Want "apex" in a small package? Buy MSI unify itx z490.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bpars said:


> Well Gigabyte Z390 Aorus is T-Topology so it actually requires 4 x Dimms to get to the higher frequencies that 2 x Dimms cannot, unlike lots of other Z390 boards that are daisy-chain.
> 
> BTW you have the MSI Z490 Unify I've had my eye on after Buildzoid's video OC'ing Viper4400 on that board. Have you seen the video?


Yeah, I bought it after seeing his PCB breakdown and I saw all his videos on it. I told Buildzoid about my RAM and CPU OC (5.4 ghz) and he gave me an attaboy. He said he couldn't get his 10700k to 5.3 without crazy voltage. I copied all his ram timings and got a higher RAM OC too using the same everything.

Where did you get your information about T-Topology? I am pretty sure 4 dimms always runs slower than 2 dimms on any topology. And like I said, the Viper Steel 4400 is binned as a 2-DIMM kit. You can't expect XMP speeds on 4 DIMMs.


----------



## bpars

0451 said:


> Where did you get your information about T-Topology? I am pretty sure 4 dimms always runs slower than 2 dimms on any topology. And like I said, the Viper Steel 4400 is binned as a 2-DIMM kit. You can't expect XMP speeds on 4 DIMMs.


Also Buildzoid, but I'd read it elsewhere too. The Aorus boards are somewhat unique apparently in that they do higher frequencies with 4 DIMMS. 

_"If you are running an "average" memory OC board like Gigabyte Z390 (from Pro-Master) there is no need for kits above 4133. The boards will only do 4133-4200 at best, and that is with 4 DIMMs. With 2 you will most likely be limited to 3800, 4100 tops if you really tweak the timings and voltages manually."_


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bpars said:


> 0451 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I bought it after seeing his PCB breakdown and I saw all his videos on it. I told Buildzoid about my RAM and CPU OC (5.4 ghz) and he gave me an attaboy. He said he couldn't get his 10700k to 5.3 without crazy voltage. I copied all his ram timings and got a higher RAM OC too using the same everything.
> 
> Where did you get your information about T-Topology? I am pretty sure 4 dimms always runs slower than 2 dimms on any topology. And like I said, the Viper Steel 4400 is binned as a 2-DIMM kit. You can't expect XMP speeds on 4 DIMMs.
> 
> 
> 
> Also Buildzoid, but I'd read it elsewhere too. The Aorus boards are somewhat unique apparently in that they do higher frequencies with 4 DIMMS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are running an "average" memory OC board like a Gigabyte z390(from Pro-Master) there is no need for the kits above 4133. The boards will only do 4133-4200 at best and that is with 4 DIMMs.` With 2 you will most likely best limited to 3800 and 4100 tops if you really tweak the timings and voltages manually.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Wow that sucks. I’m glad I have a daisy chain. I just took out 2 DIMMs and my OC went from 4266 to 4700. I’m playing with the timings as we speak, but currently at 17-17-17-37.


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> That's a really really old version.
> Mine's 1.10.08, which may have been a bugfix for windows XP, but the previous 1.10.07 is fine too.


Thanks 
That version came with the board CD
Got 1.10.07 from HWBOT
Where did you find the newest version?


----------



## munternet

bpars said:


> Hi, I've got 4x8GB sticks of Viper 4400 that my Aorus Z390 Ultra isn't happy with running at the rated 4400 (19-19-19-39), manual settings or XMP mode. I've read Aorus Z390 Pro-Master are mediocre memory OC'ers and aren't often happy with >4200Mhz mem unless you run much higher volts (1.5V+). I have a sweetheart of a 9900k w/ copper IHS that runs [email protected] with low temps that I'd like to hold on to, rather than side/down-grade to 10700k just to gain access to a Z490 board.
> 
> Wondering if I should swap this MB for a used ASUS Z390 Apex or Gene XI (better memory OC'ers) or maybe buy 4x8GB TeamGroup 4133 sticks and see how they do since they're supposedly a hair better than Viper 4400.
> 
> What would you guys do?


I was running the viper 4400c19 sticks 4400c16 on the Gene XI with 9900ks water cooled because they needed 1.64v
Pretty solid board but I couldn't resist buying the first Apex XII sold in NZ (first of any gen Apex officially sold)


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> Thanks
> That version came with the board CD
> Got 1.10.07 from HWBOT
> Where did you find the newest version?


It was posted in the apex 12 thread somewhere. It was a bugfix version for something about windows XP but i installed it anyway because why not.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I dont know how to change RTL value in bios. I change those 2 67 to 65 2 120 to 100 and no post. Why my latency is still high? I put a fan on those stick and no more error .


----------



## munternet

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I dont know how to change RTL value in bios. I change those 2 67 to 65 2 120 to 100 and no post. Why my latency is still high? I put a fan on those stick and no more error .


Zero out the 120s and the 4s to make it simple (DIMM1 because there isn't one) and subtract 1 equally from all the remaining RTLs and IOLs (DIMM0) until you get errors in TM5
You don't have to be cl16 to get good numbers but since you can get it to POST you should be good to go 
There are also very good gains to be made in the tertiaries for read, write and copy
Lower all the values on the right (except tREFI) in Asrock Timing Configurator as much as possible testing after each change for a few minutes at least. You can zero out tCKE and all the _dd values to make it simpler

Edit: F12 to save screen shots from the bios to a USB stick and Lightshot or the Windows snippy tool from windows


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ermm you guys need to let those tests run longer on those 16gb sticks lol u back to those "5min tests"


----------



## munternet

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermm you guys need to let those tests run longer on those 16gb sticks lol u back to those "5min tests"


I was suggesting testing a little between minor changes as opposed to making wholesale changes with no tests at all, or at least finding the error points as a datum prior to proper testing


----------



## zGunBLADEz

munternet said:


> I was suggesting testing a little between minor changes as opposed to making wholesale changes with no tests at all, or at least finding the error points as a datum prior to proper testing


do the anta777 3-4hrs at least i will recommend if dont have ramtest and then do some hci overnight runs... i find too quick tests that are not even an hr long.. HCI might take longer but narrow better other stuff needed from the cpu side like SA/IO even a unstable cpu in conjunction with the ram... also i find useful loading some linux torrents for IO errors for too low io voltages XD this dont show on ramtest or even hci lol


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermm you guys need to let those tests run longer on those 16gb sticks lol u back to those "5min tests"


Rules in this thread is in the first post in this very thread 

Want other rules? Make a new thread, with different rules


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> Rules in this thread is in the first post in this very thread
> 
> Want other rules? Make a new thread, with different rules


XD this topic was made on 2015 {updated on 2018} hasnt been updated since then, still 50pages or so back, people havent been following it even if it was that easy to get to the % needed..

been reading, users what they thought was stable IT WASNT.. not my fault.. longer/methodology tests are required XD
to each their own if you happy to do 10min runs and overvolt the crap out of it and ocp psus suit yourself this is a stress test topic not 3dmark and is required to do long tests and show proof of it.. so you dont have users doing stuff thinking oh its ok then having errors later on XD




> btw, i got reponse from Alan which is the HCI creator to my question.. and its exactly what i was thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I've always said overnight is the best test once you are truly sure you have a stable configuration.* you have to balance the folks who are careful and methodical against the folks who want to know now, you know? 400% is enough to catch bad ram sticks in 99% of cases, but *overclocking has different needs I'll admit.*
Click to expand...

a bad stick of ram is different than a overclocked one XD


----------



## warbucks

I've been playing with 2dimms. Here's a run I did overnight last night.

I'm using an IO-L offset of 18 to lower RT-L and using tweak mode 1. How can I lower IO-L? I'm not quite sure which setting(s) I need to target.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

warbucks said:


> I've been playing with 2dimms. Here's a run I did overnight last night.
> 
> I'm using an IO-L offset of 18 to lower RT-L and using tweak mode 1. How can I lower IO-L? I'm not quite sure which setting(s) I need to target.


drop that trfc to a range of 320/280 as the lowest if using that much voltage if possible lowered it.... SA&IO are way too high for 4000mhz raise the trefi to the max...
test again check ram @ 1.45v then lower from there.... start on SA/IO @ 1.15v.. i can do 4200 with 1.16v on my 8700k (but i guess that goes with silicon lottery/setup used and settings used etc)
also check if you can do 1t cmd



you try manually assigning the rtls? is in ram settings
nice run btw.. but you need to work and drop those voltages they way too high for the speed is at


----------



## ThrashZone

Nizzen said:


> Rules in this thread is in the first post in this very thread
> 
> Want other rules? Make a new thread, with different rules


Hi,
24/7 stability thread last I noticed does that mean run tests for at least 24/7 if yes that is a long test


----------



## Betroz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 24/7 stability thread last I noticed does that mean run tests for at least 24/7 if yes that is a long test


Running HCI memtest for 24 hours is one thing, but running Prime95 small ffts AVX2 for that long, is quite another. (on overclocked systems)


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> ThrashZone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 24/7 stability thread last I noticed does that mean run tests for at least 24/7 if yes that is a long test /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Running HCI memtest for 24 hours is one thing, but running Prime95 small ffts AVX2 for that long, is quite another. (on overclocked systems)
Click to expand...

 try avx512 then xD

I mean come on people like SERIOUSLY lol


----------



## Betroz

LOL @zGunBLADEz

Another topic. What VDIMM (for OC) is generally recommended if you are NOT using a fan or waterblock on the sticks? Like just normal case airflow. Up to 1.45v or so? And 1.40v if the RAM sticks have bad heatsinks, like the Vipers? Just wondering. Right now I have a 140mm fan directly above them, so no worries atm.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> LOL @zGunBLADEz
> 
> Another topic. What VDIMM (for OC) is generally recommended if you are NOT using a fan or waterblock on the sticks? Like just normal case airflow. Up to 1.45v or so? And 1.40v if the RAM sticks have bad heatsinks, like the Vipers? Just wondering. Right now I have a 140mm fan directly above them, so no worries atm.


While stress testing i always use a fan blowing the sticks.. After that in regular usage i dont use @ fan at all. I have 2 60mm fans right on the side of the ram on my setup. They only turn on when the vrms reach 60c+ as i have them on the vrm fan header that rarely happens here as my vrms are water cooled... It has to be hot on ambients.. If youre not doing nothing other than stress testing or heavy long period of data crunching you aint getting those temps you see while stress testing ram.

1.40v to 1.45v maybe 1.5v if ambients and case are good. I noticed on b dies that usually you max out around 1.45v to 1.5v "stable stuff" after that i dont see barely no gains to risk it more.


----------



## Falkentyne

zGunBLADEz said:


> XD this topic was made on 2015 {updated on 2018} hasnt been updated since then, still 50pages or so back, people havent been following it even if it was that easy to get to the % needed..
> 
> been reading, users what they thought was stable IT WASNT.. not my fault.. longer/methodology tests are required XD
> to each their own if you happy to do 10min runs and overvolt the crap out of it and ocp psus suit yourself this is a stress test topic not 3dmark and is required to do long tests and show proof of it.. so you dont have users doing stuff thinking oh its ok then having errors later on XD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a bad stick of ram is different than a overclocked one XD


10 minute runs of TM5 extreme1 followed by closing TM5 then doing a quick AVX disabled 112k-112k prime95 --without rebooting after the TM5 run--to test IMC/correct subtimings (Like TRDWR's) isn't terrible. In fact it's actually rather smart. You can do that to determine if you have a chance of stabilizing those timings, before you work on a 3 hour TM5 run, especially since TM5 heats the sticks up like no tomorrow. Getting errors right away rather than 30 minutes into a test saves a lot of otherwise wasted unnecessary time. If you're unstable, you want to know sooner, rather than later, so you can fix the problem.

If you get instant errors in TM5, you're massively unstable and/or something is set (a voltage or a timing) extremely wrong and you need a large change to fix things. Failing 112k no AVX prime95 (which often happens on the first two iterations if you run it after running TM5-protip) is a sure fire way of showing you have a LOT of difficult work ahead of you, but if you're lucky, it could just be VCCSA or TRDWR's.

If you can pass 10 minutes at least, and get no errors in 112k no AVX prime95, then you're in good shape for having a chance at going for a daily, and if you wind up later getting 1 or 2 errors after an hour, only a minor change in something might get you fully stable. It could also be a cooling issue, then you can choose between better cooling or loosening something temp related (and that's why memory without temp sensors almost requires a fan placed over it if your case / heatsink fans aren't doing the job, even if you're just at 1.35v)


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> I have 2 60mm fans right on the side of the ram on my setup.


Ouch 60mm fans are noisy if you want them to move a decent amount of air. My 140mm Corsair fan moves more air at lower noise. But I can see you have a smaller case than me.


----------



## nick name

Does anyone here have an idea as to why my older 3600C15 b-die (old PCB) can run 1T at 3600C14 while the same 3600C15 kit with the new PCB cannot?


----------



## Nizzen

nick name said:


> Does anyone here have an idea as to why my older 3600C15 b-die (old PCB) can run 1T at 3600C14 while the same 3600C15 kit with the new PCB cannot?


On AMD or Intel plattform?

Siliconlottery or userfailure? 

My OLD 3600c15 8GB x4 sticks running 4000c16 1t on X299 plattform. Havent tested this on z490. I have 4000c15 sticks for that plattform


----------



## Falkentyne

nick name said:


> Does anyone here have an idea as to why my older 3600C15 b-die (old PCB) can run 1T at 3600C14 while the same 3600C15 kit with the new PCB cannot?


Is that 2x8 or 2x16 GB?
Does the new kit scale better on 2T than the old kit?
My 2020 year 2x16 3200 c14 tridentz bdies are much worse (not stable) at 1T than the 2018 2x16 gb 3200 gskills were at 1T (the old sticks would do 1T at xmp with very tight timings at stock volts 100% stable), but are much better at 2T scaling, so check the 2T scaling first.


----------



## nick name

Falkentyne said:


> Is that 2x8 or 2x16 GB?
> Does the new kit scale better on 2T than the old kit?
> My 2020 year 2x16 3200 c14 tridentz bdies are much worse (not stable) at 1T than the 2018 2x16 gb 3200 gskills were at 1T (the old sticks would do 1T at xmp with very tight timings at stock volts 100% stable), but are much better at 2T scaling, so check the 2T scaling first.


Mine are 2x8GB kits.

The old kit doesn't do speed as well as the new kit and with speed I use 2T. So yeah the new kit scales much better.

What is odd is my third kit of 4400C19 (July 2020 with newer PCB) doesn't do 3600C14 at 1T either. 

So could it be simply the PCB revision? Or is there something else as well?


----------



## Falkentyne

nick name said:


> Mine are 2x8GB kits.
> 
> The old kit doesn't do speed as well as the new kit and with speed I use 2T. So yeah the new kit scales much better.
> 
> What is odd is my third kit of 4400C19 (July 2020 with newer PCB) doesn't do 3600C14 at 1T either.
> 
> So could it be simply the PCB revision? Or is there something else as well?


Doesn't matter if you can't stabilize 1T.
Trace Centering on Asus may help with 1T or it may not. 1T is worth somewhere about 200 mhz w.r.t. 2T, or something but no exact formula. 3200 14/14/14/34 1T may be as fast as 3333 15/15/15/35 2T.
Just use 2T and clock it to the moon and enjoy the scaling.

My 2020 year trident Z sticks suck bad at 3200 14/14/14/34 1T (needs work and looser subs to stabilize and more voltage, 1.35v is not stable) but run great at 4000 16/16/16/36 2T @ 1.45v and I did not try lower volts yet.
My 2018 year tridentZ sticks are 100% rock solid stable at 3200 14/14/14/34 1T with extremely tight subs, 15/15/15/36 @ 3600 @ 1T is "possible" on Z490 but requires loose subs and a lot of work to stabilize (the 2020 sticks by comparison just BSOD if I try 1T), but 3733 15/15/15/36 is hard to stabilize regardless of voltage (the 2020 sticks do this easily), and 4000 at 17/17/17/39 requires 1.5v and much looser subs.

So my advice is don't worry about 1T. Just enjoy the new kit and clock 2T as high as you can go stable.


----------



## nick name

Falkentyne said:


> -snip-
> 
> So my advice is don't worry about 1T. Just enjoy the new kit and clock 2T as high as you can go stable.


I'm just curious as to why is all. I've tested 1T, 1T with GDM, 2T. And the difference is pretty negligible. So like you said -- clock 2T as high as I can get stable.


----------



## D-EJ915

I remember Luumi saying in his vids that for him the old PCB works better with 1T but new PCB can get higher speeds but has really hard time with 1T.


----------



## Nizzen

D-EJ915 said:


> I remember Luumi saying in his vids that for him the old PCB works better with 1T but new PCB can get higher speeds but has really hard time with 1T.


I'm running 4700c17 1t with Asus Apex z490 and 10900k, so it's not "that" hard to do 1t with the new pcb's  Maybe 1t is harder on Evga z490 Dark


----------



## nick name

D-EJ915 said:


> I remember Luumi saying in his vids that for him the old PCB works better with 1T but new PCB can get higher speeds but has really hard time with 1T.





Nizzen said:


> I'm running 4700c17 1t with Asus Apex z490 and 10900k, so it's not "that" hard to do 1t with the new pcb's  Maybe 1t is harder on Evga z490 Dark


Right now I'm playing with 4200MHz 15-15-15-15 and tight subs with 1T and that's proving to run just fine (on latest PCB revision). Perhaps it's 1T at tCL 14 where it get's wonky on the latest PCB revision?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Cant get it down to 34 latency guys. Txp 4 ppd 0 already.


----------



## munternet

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cant get it down to 34 latency guys. Txp 4 ppd 0 already.


That is already pretty good 
Can you lower RTLs? Maybe get them both on 61/12, 60/11 etc or won't it boot?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

munternet said:


> Thanh Nguyen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cant get it down to 34 latency guys. Txp 4 ppd 0 already.
> 
> 
> 
> That is already pretty good /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> Can you lower RTLs? Maybe get them both on 61/12, 60/11 etc or won't it boot?
Click to expand...

Wont boot. SA IO too low or vdim low? 1.3 sa io and 1.55vdim now.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> That is already pretty good
> Can you lower RTLs? Maybe get them both on 61/12, 60/11 etc or won't it boot?


For Dr 0088 only boots with 62/62 or 62/63.

IDK why he cant reach 34.xns, maybe due to too many programs ran in the background.


----------



## Betroz

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cant get it down to 34 latency guys. Txp 4 ppd 0 already.


Very tight/aggressive timings for 16GB sticks... I bet that is not stable or error free for long.


----------



## skullbringer

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cant get it down to 34 latency guys. Txp 4 ppd 0 already.


1. Try set the following bios settings:
Round Trip Latency: enabled
MRC Fast Boot: disabled
CH-A Latency Offset: 24
CH-B Latency Offset: 24
(If you don't know were settings are in bios, you can search in bios with F9)

2. Reboot, and see if it trains. 
a. If not (code 55), press safe boot button, go to bios and set Latency Offset settings -1, F10 and see if it trains, repeat this step until it trains -> 2.b.
b. If it trains, go into bios and increase Latency Offset +1, F10, repeat this step until it does not train anymore, do 2.a. once and go to 3. 
3. Go into bios and check trained IO-Ls. If one channel is a lot higher than the other, e.g. IO-Ls: 4 - 14, press F10, reboot and redo this step. If one channel is higher by 1 than the other e.g. 4-5, increase its Latency Offset by 1, reboot and redo this step. If both IO-Ls are equal, set MRC Fast Boot to enabled, change nothing else, F10, reboot, go to 4.
4. Boot to windows and benchmark your latency with Aida64.

Every IO-L you can lower should give you 0.1ns of latency. offsets 24-24 should give you IO-Ls 4-4 if trained properly, compared to your 12-14 that should be around 1.8ns of latency, so 34.2ns compared to 36.0ns.

One more tip: For consistency sake with Aida64 benchmark, before you run wait 30s after boot for Windows to chill out, open Aida64 benchmark, use task manager to kill explorer. If nothing else is running in the background, you should get within 0.2ns of variance between runs, not the usual 2ns when Windows does stuff in the background...


----------



## skullbringer

I have another stupid question. How can a ram oc be 3000% HCI stable and 10000% Karhu stable, but throw instant errors in TM5 Ollie (at equal temperatures)?


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> I have another stupid question. How can a ram oc be 3000% HCI stable and 10000% Karhu stable, but throw instant errors in TM5 Ollie (at equal temperatures)?


IMC can be stable (or unstable) but dimms not voltage stable (or can be stable). Or some timing can be wrong. Or skews could be wrong or some resistances wrong (WR's, RTT, park, Nom) Memory overclocking drives people crazy. That's why everyone on this forum is always in a bad mood.

Did you run prime95 112k-112k AVX disabled ? 15 minutes test should determine if your IMC likes the timings or not.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I need to adjust my timings 1 at a time to be stable at 16-16-16-36. Otherwise it fails to post. I set to 16-18-18-37, reboot, set to 16-17-18-37, reboot, set to 16-17-17-37, and so on.

Is this because of memory training?


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> I have another stupid question. How can a ram oc be 3000% HCI stable and 10000% Karhu stable, but throw instant errors in TM5 Ollie (at equal temperatures)?


I've never tried Ollie. Can you point me to a download? I'll also do a google.


----------



## skullbringer

Falkentyne said:


> IMC can be stable (or unstable) but dimms not voltage stable (or can be stable). Or some timing can be wrong. Or skews could be wrong or some resistances wrong (WR's, RTT, park, Nom) Memory overclocking drives people crazy. That's why everyone on this forum is always in a bad mood.
> 
> Did you run prime95 112k-112k AVX disabled ? 15 minutes test should determine if your IMC likes the timings or not.


yes, also did another run for sanity confirmation, with 3 C higher ambient today. 

no errors in prime95 112k fft no avx 20mins, almost instant error in tm5 before even reaching max temperature during prime run.


I'm leaning towards putting TM5 in the same category as Prime95 AVX and LinpackXtreme of "overkill for validating 24/7 stability"...


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> I've never tried Ollie. Can you point me to a download? I'll also do a google.


https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1751608-memory-testing-testmem5-tm5-custom-configs.html


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> I'm leaning towards putting TM5 in the same category as Prime95 AVX and LinpackXtreme of "overkill for validating 24/7 stability"...


Have you tried a lower uncore/ring clock? Set it to say, X48 and try TM5 again.


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> yes, also did another run for sanity confirmation, with 3 C higher ambient today.
> 
> no errors in prime95 112k fft no avx 20mins, almost instant error in tm5 before even reaching max temperature during prime run.
> 
> 
> I'm leaning towards putting TM5 in the same category as Prime95 AVX and LinpackXtreme of "overkill for validating 24/7 stability"...


Do you really need 1.45v IO and 1.65v VCCSA?
4700 mhz memory should not need SA so high.

And why Ollie? Does Extreme1 also crash fast?


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1751608-memory-testing-testmem5-tm5-custom-configs.html


Ya know I found that post, but didn't bother reading it thoroughly. I'm an idiot. Many thanks.


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> Have you tried a lower uncore/ring clock? Set it to say, X48 and try TM5 again.


 53x cache is rock solid stable in everything else I tested, realbench, prime no avx, cinebench r20, heck even linx when core multi is set down to 54x. 



Falkentyne said:


> Do you really need 1.45v IO and 1.65v VCCSA?
> 4700 mhz memory should not need SA so high.
> 
> And why Ollie? Does Extreme1 also crash fast?


I need 1.39V IO for 5.3 GHz cache to be stable, +100 mV to be safe, so it's set to 1.4V in bios.

VCCSA is set to 1.6V in bios. Not sure why HWinfo shows ~50 mV more for both, but maybe measured at VRM out, as opposed to at the cpu taking vdroop into account?

I can boot and train this with 1.55V SA reliably, 1.6V was just to see if it improves stability in TM5, it did not however.

If I need to pick a different TM5 config to be stable, why test TM5 at all, when HCI and Karhu are really really stable at max temp?


----------



## itssladenlol

guys my config with 4400 c17 is rockstable with karhu and hci but sometimes on desktop i get weird black desktop shortcuts and stuff like that.

is it tRFC and tREFi related?


----------



## ViTosS

Well finally I'm going to receive my [email protected] BDie kit from Newegg this week, first thing I will try 4200Mhz flat CL16, any tips about what voltages should I start with?


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> guys my config with 4400 c17 is rockstable with karhu and hci but sometimes on desktop i get weird black desktop shortcuts and stuff like that.
> 
> is it tRFC and tREFi related?


It might be possible there is some OS corruption if you encountered blue screens and freezes during the setting process. I have icons that lose the little picture before I re-install the OS 



ViTosS said:


> Well finally I'm going to receive my [email protected] BDie kit from Newegg this week, first thing I will try 4200Mhz flat CL16, any tips about what voltages should I start with?


Nice :thumb:
Is it 2*8?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

skullbringer said:


> Thanh Nguyen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cant get it down to 34 latency guys. Txp 4 ppd 0 already.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Try set the following bios settings:
> Round Trip Latency: enabled
> MRC Fast Boot: disabled
> CH-A Latency Offset: 24
> CH-B Latency Offset: 24
> (If you don't know were settings are in bios, you can search in bios with F9)
> 
> 2. Reboot, and see if it trains.
> a. If not (code 55), press safe boot button, go to bios and set Latency Offset settings -1, F10 and see if it trains, repeat this step until it trains -> 2.b.
> b. If it trains, go into bios and increase Latency Offset +1, F10, repeat this step until it does not train anymore, do 2.a. once and go to 3.
> 3. Go into bios and check trained IO-Ls. If one channel is a lot higher than the other, e.g. IO-Ls: 4 - 14, press F10, reboot and redo this step. If one channel is higher by 1 than the other e.g. 4-5, increase its Latency Offset by 1, reboot and redo this step. If both IO-Ls are equal, set MRC Fast Boot to enabled, change nothing else, F10, reboot, go to 4.
> 4. Boot to windows and benchmark your latency with Aida64.
> 
> Every IO-L you can lower should give you 0.1ns of latency. offsets 24-24 should give you IO-Ls 4-4 if trained properly, compared to your 12-14 that should be around 1.8ns of latency, so 34.2ns compared to 36.0ns.
> 
> One more tip: For consistency sake with Aida64 benchmark, before you run wait 30s after boot for Windows to chill out, open Aida64 benchmark, use task manager to kill explorer. If nothing else is running in the background, you should get within 0.2ns of variance between runs, not the usual 2ns when Windows does stuff in the background... /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
Click to expand...

Able to lower IOL to 4 by your tutorial but latency is the same. Am I missing something?


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> It might be possible there is some OS corruption if you encountered blue screens and freezes during the setting process. I have icons that lose the little picture before I re-install the OS
> 
> 
> 
> Nice :thumb:
> Is it 2*8?


Yes it is, 2x8GB


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Yes it is, 2x8GB


Ii would be guessing 1.4v-1.45v and refine after a rough tune.
What was the problem with your other sticks 2x8GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB [email protected] 1.35v ?


----------



## skullbringer

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Able to lower IOL to 4 by your tutorial but latency is the same. Am I missing something?


nice! :thumb:

very likely that something is running in the background in Windows. You should easily get 34.x ns latency. That is quirk with Aida64 though, so easy to skew the result without even knowing it.

Have you tried Geekbench 3? If your memory score is above 9500 you can be happy


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> nice! :thumb:
> 
> very likely that something is running in the background in Windows. You should easily get 34.x ns latency. That is quirk with Aida64 though, so easy to skew the result without even knowing it.
> 
> Have you tried Geekbench 3? *If your memory score is above 9500 you can be happy*


Mine is 9462....should I be unhappy


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> Mine is 9462....should I be unhappy


you're running 17-17-17-34, whereas he is running 16-16-16-36 probably with 100mV more voltage at least, so it just depends how much your kit can do and how much you are willing to push it.

but honestly over 9000 with a dual rank kit on ambient is very respectable


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> you're running 17-17-17-34, whereas he is running 16-16-16-36 probably with 100mV more voltage at least, so it just depends how much your kit can do and how much you are willing to push it.
> 
> but honestly over 9000 with a dual rank kit on ambient is very respectable


My Aida scores are actually better though. Might be because of the lower tertiaries...
I,m on water but my CPU and cache is only 5.2/49 compared to you guys
Nothing I have tried lets me push this kit any more without massive errors after 10 seconds of TM5 but I will try to keep my chin up 
Raised the voltages with diminishing returns. When you hit the wall with this stuff you really hit the wall


----------



## munternet

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Wont boot. SA IO too low or vdim low? 1.3 sa io and 1.55vdim now.


Can you try these voltages?

1.45 first then if it doesn't work 1.5 vdim
1.3 vccio
1.35 vccsa


----------



## nick name

itssladenlol said:


> guys my config with 4400 c17 is rockstable with karhu and hci but sometimes on desktop i get weird black desktop shortcuts and stuff like that.
> 
> is it tRFC and tREFi related?


I've been seeing black spots on the desktop as well, but I think it's only been when playing with unstable settings. I can't recall if I've seen them while using stable settings. However, this isn't something I remember seeing before when playing with unstable settings.


----------



## skullbringer

munternet said:


> My Aida scores are actually better though. Might be because of the lower tertiaries...
> I,m on water but my CPU and cache is only 5.2/49 compared to you guys
> Nothing I have tried lets me push this kit any more without massive errors after 10 seconds of TM5 but I will try to keep my chin up
> Raised the voltages with diminishing returns. When you hit the wall with this stuff you really hit the wall


from my experience every 100 MHz cache clock translates to ~ 0.1ns in Aida latency test, so you can normalize our results for your cache clock to compare

I've had a lot of success with tweaking DRAM VTT voltage, + 50-100mV for dual rank bdie, - 50-100 mV for single rank bdie, gives you more stability without the temperature sensitivity of raising DRAM voltage.

Not sure about TM5 though, every RAM oc I've done that is 3000% HCI stable, is instantly unstable in TM5 within 2 minutes, and it's not caused by temps, so dunno, not sure if I can trust TM5... :/


----------



## skullbringer

calling that good for slow dual rank sticks

not bad for 3200 c14 rated dimms, they will go in my daily rig when Ampere launches, 16GB for MS flight sim, 16GB for Chrome 

needs active cooling though (stable up to 50C), Bitspower universal dimm2 block is in the mail already 

if anyone figures out how to train dual rank at more than 4400, please let me know


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Ii would be guessing 1.4v-1.45v and refine after a rough tune.
> What was the problem with your other sticks 2x8GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB [email protected] 1.35v ?


Don't you remember? I can't get anything stable over [email protected] with these sticks and I was debating if my problem was the CPU IMC or RAM bin itself, so I bought this new kit to find out.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Don't you remember? I can't get anything stable over [email protected] with these sticks and I was debating if my problem was the CPU IMC or RAM bin itself, so I bought this new kit to find out.


Yep. Wasn't sure where you finished up. Hopefully the new sticks sort it out mate :thumb:


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Yep. Wasn't sure where you finished up. Hopefully the new sticks sort it out mate :thumb:


Yep, I hope so, I can sell easily my current RAM sticks for more than I paid in these new ones, reality of Brazil , Samsung B-Die is really rare here.


----------



## Falkentyne

New 2x16 3200 CL14 tridentZ dual rank overclock. Quick tested TM5 extreme1 one cycle and 112k fft stable. Pretty happy with these 2020 year gskill sticks. The 2018 sticks are so much worse than this.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Geek5, does it has memory score?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> from my experience every 100 MHz cache clock translates to ~ 0.1ns in Aida latency test, so you can normalize our results for your cache clock to compare
> 
> I've had a lot of success with tweaking DRAM VTT voltage, + 50-100mV for dual rank bdie, - 50-100 mV for single rank bdie, gives you more stability without the temperature sensitivity of raising DRAM voltage.
> 
> Not sure about TM5 though, every RAM oc I've done that is 3000% HCI stable, is instantly unstable in TM5 within 2 minutes, and it's not caused by temps, so dunno, not sure if I can trust TM5... :/


You can trust TM5 if you need an extremely stable ram. A cycle of Ollie under 55c ram temp should ensure the ram stability in games.


----------



## ComansoRowlett

Latency is slightly hindered from having hwinfo/hci open when I did my aida test, usually around 33.6ish. But here is my new daily  I used a bench OS just incase I corrupted it when testing. All voltages read correct in my HWINFO so it is what I was running.


----------



## propsandmayhem

May I ask a silly question? What is the record for 4 dimm latency? I am loving this PC btw, the chip that keeps on giving.


----------



## munternet

skullbringer said:


> calling that good for slow dual rank sticks
> 
> not bad for 3200 c14 rated dimms, they will go in my daily rig when Ampere launches, 16GB for MS flight sim, 16GB for Chrome
> 
> needs active cooling though (stable up to 50C), Bitspower universal dimm2 block is in the mail already
> 
> *if anyone figures out how to train dual rank at more than 4400, please let me know*


It's not very meaningful as a daily 

Mode 1
Trace centering enabled


----------



## propsandmayhem

any recommended tests for cr1 or just blast em with the usual?

Edit: trying out ollie config, had to raise sa a bit but we will see if 4 dimms cr1 holds


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> 1. Try set the following bios settings:
> Round Trip Latency: enabled
> MRC Fast Boot: disabled
> CH-A Latency Offset: 24
> CH-B Latency Offset: 24
> (If you don't know were settings are in bios, you can search in bios with F9)
> 
> 2. Reboot, and see if it trains.
> a. If not (code 55), press safe boot button, go to bios and set Latency Offset settings -1, F10 and see if it trains, repeat this step until it trains -> 2.b.
> b. If it trains, go into bios and increase Latency Offset +1, F10, repeat this step until it does not train anymore, do 2.a. once and go to 3.
> 3. Go into bios and check trained IO-Ls. If one channel is a lot higher than the other, e.g. IO-Ls: 4 - 14, press F10, reboot and redo this step. If one channel is higher by 1 than the other e.g. 4-5, increase its Latency Offset by 1, reboot and redo this step. If both IO-Ls are equal, set MRC Fast Boot to enabled, change nothing else, F10, reboot, go to 4.
> 4. Boot to windows and benchmark your latency with Aida64.
> 
> Every IO-L you can lower should give you 0.1ns of latency. offsets 24-24 should give you IO-Ls 4-4 if trained properly, compared to your 12-14 that should be around 1.8ns of latency, so 34.2ns compared to 36.0ns.
> 
> One more tip: For consistency sake with Aida64 benchmark, before you run wait 30s after boot for Windows to chill out, open Aida64 benchmark, use task manager to kill explorer. If nothing else is running in the background, you should get within 0.2ns of variance between runs, not the usual 2ns when Windows does stuff in the background...


thats da wrong way to set iol offset and "wait" to train. 

u can go all the way down to 0-2 on iol if u do it properly. 

dats be one lengthy guide but literally just check relationships.


----------



## munternet

cstkl1 said:


> thats da wrong way to set iol offset and "wait" to train.
> 
> u can go all the way down to 0-2 on iol if u do it properly.
> 
> dats be one lengthy guide but literally just check relationships.


Any chance you could write one up?
Cheers


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> thats da wrong way to set iol offset and "wait" to train.
> 
> u can go all the way down to 0-2 on iol if u do it properly.
> 
> dats be one lengthy guide but literally just check relationships.


I would genuinely appreciate any constructive criticism with proper English


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> Any chance you could write one up?
> Cheers





skullbringer said:


> I would genuinely appreciate any constructive criticism with proper English


need pictures dude.. even if i type a lengthy explanation here it wont make sense..
actually a video is better.

for now use init rtl first and then find the relationship with iol offset.

alot of guides out there are plain wrong. 
RTL history.. it started back in DDR3 when elpida hypers came out.... for the 2kc6/c7 was really difficult to get any memory voltages stable. DFI was easy since they had the option. EVGA ( sham just left after that).. x58 classified implemented properly later on. Asus was a MESS
Z87 Extreme.. this is where shamino came in and started the init RTL etc.. so everything we have today came from this mobo. ( although it had diff options need to be enabled/disabled for manual insert).. this was the best guide available. 
Later on INIT IOL came but thats more to breaking the guardband but its a marginal difference... leaving it at default is fine. 

every guide out there is wrong btw.. it has some truths with a lot of falsehood facts.

so just do what i suggest.. find the lowest init rtl with default IOL offset. find the relationship between them. after that you will know how to adjust.

full explanation needs a video and screenshots... and sorry its really tedious.

ppl who clock 4 dimms normally are better at this cause its important to bring down vccio/vcssa.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> ppl who clock 4 dimms normally are better at this cause its important to bring down vccio/vcssa.


Important for people with 4 dimms, or in general?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Important for people with 4 dimms, or in general?


good for all. just that 4dimm is a compulsory skill

example of a 4kc17
lowest is 62,62,63,63 but the vcssa requirement vs 63,63,63,63 is big. i can get away with default vcssa 1.05 with this

and iol.. thats the lowest it can go..62,62,63,63 will do 0,0,0,0..

first understand init rtl
first widespread false hood is its to limit the lowest rtl value in channel A/B.

second theres always two lowest values.. one will be a odd set and another even. check to see which has better vcssa requirement. 

third falsehood. theres no such thing as better at a fixed ioloffset.. having low iol does not means its better. most ppl use iol for iol [email protected] because mobo trains faster and easier. thats all

all of these affects cache so it depends what cache speed you are running. 52|50 and above.. 2dimm have to start looking at this cause thats when rtl/iol sets mattervto reduce vccio/vcssa.


----------



## Salve1412

Guys, I'm looking for an advice. Putting aside the fact that in the last few days I've been struggling a lot in order to find stable settings for my 4800 GSkill 2x8GB kit with a 10700k and a Maximus XII Extreme at 44001T or 45002T, CL17 (this board is devilishly inconsistent in terms of stability, and newer BIOSes haven't helped much so far), I'm experiencing an issue I never had before. During RAM tests (e.g. Karhu) the PC suddenly and randomly reboots without any BSOD: it's not a shutdown followed by a power on, it's rather just an immediate black screen followed by the BIOS splash screen, similar to a reset. The interesting fact is that I've noticed the same behaviour with two 10700Ks on this board and on an Apex XII I had the pleasure to test. Raising the VCCIO seems to gradually mitigate the problem, but for example yesterday evening it happened again at about 18000% Kahru coverage. No minidump are created and event viewer just shows the classic Kernel-power error. 
Would it be possible that a low VCCIO could cause this? Regarding the CPU, I think that I've been a bit unlucky with these two 10700K: both of them are not good overclockers (same SP of 51) and require much higher VCCIO and VCCSA compared to my previous 9900KS on Apex XI at a given RAM frequency (I'm talking of 1.2V vs 1.35V for 4400 1T, both with XII Extreme and XII Apex). Or is it safe to assume, as the issue occurred with two different boards and CPUs, that PSU is the culprit? I've got an EVGA Supernova G3 850W: it's about a year and a half old and I've never had an issue with it previously, with the two 9thgen systems I owned. What do you think about it? Thanks in advance


----------



## cstkl1

Salve1412 said:


> Guys, I'm looking for an advice. Putting aside the fact that in the last few days I've been struggling a lot in order to find stable settings for my 4800 GSkill 2x8GB kit with a 10700k and a Maximus XII Extreme at 44001T or 45002T, CL17 (this board is devilishly inconsistent in terms of stability, and newer BIOSes haven't helped much so far), I'm experiencing an issue I never had before. During RAM tests (e.g. Karhu) the PC suddenly and randomly reboots without any BSOD: it's not a shutdown followed by a power on, it's rather just an immediate black screen followed by the BIOS splash screen, similar to a reset. The interesting fact is that I've noticed the same behaviour with two 10700Ks on this board and on an Apex XII I had the pleasure to test. Raising the VCCIO seems to gradually mitigate the problem, but for example yesterday evening it happened again at about 18000% Kahru coverage. No minidump are created and event viewer just shows the classic Kernel-power error.
> Would it be possible that a low VCCIO could cause this? Regarding the CPU, I think that I've been a bit unlucky with these two 10700K: both of them are not good overclockers (same SP of 51) and require much higher VCCIO and VCCSA compared to my previous 9900KS on Apex XI at a given RAM frequency (I'm talking of 1.2V vs 1.35V for 4400 1T, both with XII Extreme and XII Apex). Or is it safe to assume, as the issue occurred with two different boards and CPUs, that PSU is the culprit? I've got an EVGA Supernova G3 850W: it's about a year and a half old and I've never had an issue with it previously, with the two 9thgen systems I owned. What do you think about it? Thanks in advance


whats your v/f . post a screenshot
looks like general instability of cpu/cache

sp50s on 10700k generally do [email protected] (vmin)
sp70s [email protected] 
sp90 this is 10900k lvl 5.1 under 1.2v


----------



## Salve1412

cstkl1 said:


> whats your v/f . post a screenshot
> looks like general instability of cpu/cache
> 
> sp50s on 10700k generally do [email protected] (vmin)
> sp70s [email protected]
> sp90 this is 10900k lvl 5.1 under 1.2v


Ooh yes, i forgot to write that both the 10700Ks were overclocked by Core usage: 5.2 4 cores/5.1 from 5 to 8 cores (took this per core settings from Silicon Lottery), AVX Offset 0, Cache x48 LLC4. I think it's very possible that I messed around with V/F settings, since I didn't delve into them and just sticked with values that could pass 1h OCCT Large Data Set, Cinebench R20 and 10 runs of Realbench 2.56 at reasonable temperatures. I'll attach some screenshots (V/F are in the last one). Maybe I should try lowering Cache, for starters?


----------



## cstkl1

Salve1412 said:


> Ooh yes, i forgot to write that both the 10700Ks were overclocked by Core usage: 5.2 4 cores/5.1 from 5 to 8 cores (took this per core settings from Silicon Lottery), AVX Offset 0, Cache x48 LLC4. I think it's very possible that I messed around with V/F settings, since I didn't delve into them and just sticked with values that could pass 1h OCCT Large Data Set, Cinebench R20 and 10 runs of Realbench 2.56 at reasonable temperatures. I'll attach some screenshots (V/F are in the last one). Maybe I should try lowering Cache, for starters?


yeah u cant do 5.2 @That voltage. 

simple test just run p95 fft80 avx disabled. 

your cpu/cache is unstable.


----------



## Salve1412

cstkl1 said:


> yeah u cant do 5.2 @That voltage.
> 
> simple test just run p95 fft80 avx disabled.
> 
> your cpu/cache is unstable.


Even if 5.2 is only up to 4 cores? Got it, I'll start again from the CPU, then. Thanks!


----------



## propsandmayhem

How many cycles of ollie do run for stability? An hours worth? I'm used to anta extreme config which takes hours for a cycle on 4dimm.


----------



## cstkl1

propsandmayhem said:


> How many cycles of ollie do run for stability? An hours worth? I'm used to anta extreme config which takes hours for a cycle on 4dimm.


Tm5 only good for voltage stability. It doesnt test alot of ram timings. 

So use v3 to get general voltage stability with fft112 and then fire up hci with 20x1450-20x1500mb. (32gb kit).. stresstest this with gpu drivers uninstalled.. windows in diagnostic mode. 

Ram oc has two parts.. voltages and timings. If u get tm5 pass with fft112 but get inconsistency on hci sometimes pass and sometimes doesnt fireup karhu or gsat and see whether its timings or temp.


----------



## propsandmayhem

I've got gsat on a bootable tiny core that seems to work alright. I was recommended OcCT but I typically just used prime 112 no avx


----------



## cstkl1

Salve1412 said:


> Even if 5.2 is only up to 4 cores? Got it, I'll start again from the CPU, then. Thanks!


Dat cpu needs like [email protected] L4
Asus prediction for 5.1 ghz is pretty accurate btw
Try [email protected] L6
173 amps 

Vmin should be arnd 1.4v

4.8 to 5.1 voltage scaling tends to be consistent per .1 ghz. So I would run this
5ghz @1.445-1.455 L6


----------



## reflex75

Salve1412 said:


> Regarding the CPU, I think that I've been a bit unlucky with these two 10700K: both of them are not good overclockers (same SP of 51) and require much higher VCCIO and VCCSA compared to my previous 9900KS


What a mistake to exchange a binned top tier 9900ks vs an average 10700k (best silicons are kept for 10900k)
I wouldn't exchange my 9900ks (5.3Ghz) even vs a 10900k (with useless 2 more cores that get hotter and injure latency...)


----------



## Nizzen

reflex75 said:


> What a mistake to exchange a binned top tier 9900ks vs an average 10700k (best silicons are kept for 10900k)
> I wouldn't exchange my 9900ks (5.3Ghz) even vs a 10900k (with useless 2 more cores that get hotter and injure latency...)


"hotter"


----------



## propsandmayhem

cstkl1 said:


> Tm5 only good for voltage stability. It doesnt test alot of ram timings.
> 
> So use v3 to get general voltage stability with fft112 and then fire up hci with 20x1450-20x1500mb. (32gb kit).. stresstest this with gpu drivers uninstalled.. windows in diagnostic mode.
> 
> Ram oc has two parts.. voltages and timings. If u get tm5 pass with fft112 but get inconsistency on hci sometimes pass and sometimes doesnt fireup karhu or gsat and see whether its timings or temp.


Thanks, for the reply btw, I thought I was invisible for a sec, would really like to get this like number stable


----------



## ViTosS

My kit [email protected] G.Skill from Newegg arrived today, but for my bad luck, one stick isn't being detected, I tried both slots and combinations on the mobo without success, contacted Newegg and they said the warranty/return is over (they have 30 days only) and told me I had to contact G.Skill for RMA, damn I was so excited to OC this kit...


----------



## propsandmayhem

It held through 3200% of karhu after and a short spurt through gsat after having to raise sa volts. Running it throught tm5 and maybe gsat for a bit longer but hit 46000 in gsat.


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> My kit [email protected] G.Skill from Newegg arrived today, but for my bad luck, one stick isn't being detected, I tried both slots and combinations on the mobo without success, contacted Newegg and they said the warranty/return is over (they have 30 days only) and told me I had to contact G.Skill for RMA, damn I was so excited to OC this kit...


You really aren't having much luck mate 
Can you try to overclock the one good stick to see if it clocks OK?



propsandmayhem said:


> It held through 3200% of karhu after and a short spurt through gsat after having to raise sa volts. Running it throught tm5 and maybe gsat for a bit longer but hit 46000 in gsat.


Looks good :thumb:
That SA still looks fairly low. Do you play BFV at all


----------



## propsandmayhem

I had to raise SA and IO up to just under 1.3 which was expected since 4300c17 required 1.3 with my 2x2x8gb patriot viper 4400s. This kit is a lot more agreeable in the voltage department, this is still with 1.5vdimm. I'm trying something with the aux voltages to try to max my cache but I don't think 1.6 vtt is needed, any suggestions or how to fix the RTLs like on that z490 extreme XII.


----------



## propsandmayhem

munternet said:


> You really aren't having much luck mate
> Can you try to overclock the one good stick to see if it clocks OK?
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good :thumb:
> That SA still looks fairly low. Do you play BFV at all


Forgive me I am still figuring out how to work some of the forums tools, I don't play battlefield, more a moba guy myself but I hear it is a good test of stability for a 9900k.


----------



## Salve1412

reflex75 said:


> What a mistake to exchange a binned top tier 9900ks vs an average 10700k (best silicons are kept for 10900k)
> I wouldn't exchange my 9900ks (5.3Ghz) even vs a 10900k (with useless 2 more cores that get hotter and injure latency...)


Well, I gave my KS and Apex XI to my cousin, so that CPU is still with me, so to say 🙂
The 10700K is just a temporary solution, I'm waiting for 10900K to be restocked where I live. 
By the way, nice result with that 5.3 overclock!


----------



## propsandmayhem

I know its a bit lower frequency but I hope you guys can help me improve this maybe get my copy speed higher, any suggestions? Should I turn 2T back on?


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> need pictures dude.. even if i type a lengthy explanation here it wont make sense..
> actually a video is better.
> 
> for now use init rtl first and then find the relationship with iol offset.
> 
> alot of guides out there are plain wrong.
> RTL history.. it started back in DDR3 when elpida hypers came out.... for the 2kc6/c7 was really difficult to get any memory voltages stable. DFI was easy since they had the option. EVGA ( sham just left after that).. x58 classified implemented properly later on. Asus was a MESS
> Z87 Extreme.. this is where shamino came in and started the init RTL etc.. so everything we have today came from this mobo. ( although it had diff options need to be enabled/disabled for manual insert).. this was the best guide available.
> Later on INIT IOL came but thats more to breaking the guardband but its a marginal difference... leaving it at default is fine.
> 
> every guide out there is wrong btw.. it has some truths with a lot of falsehood facts.
> 
> so just do what i suggest.. find the lowest init rtl with default IOL offset. find the relationship between them. after that you will know how to adjust.
> 
> full explanation needs a video and screenshots... and sorry its really tedious.
> 
> ppl who clock 4 dimms normally are better at this cause its important to bring down vccio/vcssa.


so by setting rtl init value and io latency offset to fixed valued I should train consistently same RTLs/IO-Ls every boot, correct?


----------



## skullbringer

propsandmayhem said:


> I know its a bit lower frequency but I hope you guys can help me improve this maybe get my copy speed higher, any suggestions? Should I turn 2T back on?


try this in bios
set tWTR_L and tWTR_S to auto
set tFAW to 16
set tWRRD_sg to 30 (or lower if stable)
set tWRRD_dg to 25 (or lower if stable)
set tRDWR_sg to 12 (or lower if stable)
set tRDWR_dg to 12 (or lower if stable)
set tRDWR_dd to 12 (or lower if stable)

>60000 MB/s copy should be possible


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> so by setting rtl init value and io latency offset to fixed valued I should train consistently same RTLs/IO-Ls every boot, correct?


Everything hinges on understanding relationship between init rtl and iol offset. 

After that you will know how to set low rtl, low iol, higher iol offset. 

And yes it will be consistent since its set.


----------



## propsandmayhem

skullbringer said:


> try this in bios
> set tWTR_L and tWTR_S to auto
> set tFAW to 16
> set tWRRD_sg to 30 (or lower if stable)
> set tWRRD_dg to 25 (or lower if stable)
> set tRDWR_sg to 12 (or lower if stable)
> set tRDWR_dg to 12 (or lower if stable)
> set tRDWR_dd to 12 (or lower if stable)
> 
> >60000 MB/s copy should be possible


I will test and report back, so many tests I'm still working out a routine but I like Gsat, TM5 I am still learning but hopefully you guys don't mind being patient with me, still fairly new at this.

I appreciate this, Thank you!


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> So use v3 to get general voltage stability with fft112 and then fire up hci with 20x1450-20x1500mb. (32gb kit).. stresstest this with gpu drivers uninstalled.. windows in diagnostic mode.


Stresstest with GPU drivers uninstalled and windows in diagnostic mode? You trolling? 
No disrespect, but you seem to have a lot of opinions.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Stresstest with GPU drivers uninstalled and windows in diagnostic mode? You trolling?
> No disrespect, but you seem to have a lot of opinions.


I am guessing you are one of those who enables pagefile when running ram test

It aint opinion. Its how ram test are done. With all ui disabled and anything that can free up ram.
Gpu drivers reserves ram and when u approach close to max limit they are gonna fail which will revert to more free up ram. Hence might as well uninstall them. 

What other “opinion” you talkin about. How much do you really test to check.


----------



## Nier

New to memory OC I understand some of the basic but got confused about few timings

how accurate is this rule or did I misunderstand something?

"tRTP should be half tWR, tWR should be set after tCWL + 2nCK (15nCK minimum) for samsung b-die BUT also tWR need to be = tWTRL X2.
(so if tCWL 14 tWR 16 tRTP 8 tWTRL 8)"

also which one is true

tRRD_L 6nCK minimum or 4nCK minimum for samsung b-die?

tCKE minimum 1nCK or 3nCK samsung b-die or 5-6nCK minimum?.

I tested both required same voltage to be stable 1.54v dram 1.23v IO 1.28v SA
only test them in AIDA64 and both about the same only copy speed improved

is there a hidden latency penalty in other applications for not following the above rules?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Hi there dudes. I'm having some issues with my Patriot Steel 4400Mhz memory. I got it at 4000Mhz with CL15 but can't drop further, using 1.45V. can't drop it any further. Any help would be appreciated! Here are some settings: 

It would be nice to get it to C12 or C13 at least so that my 10980XE can get even 5000 score in R15.


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Hi there dudes. I'm having some issues with my Patriot Steel 4400Mhz memory. I got it at 4000Mhz with CL15 but can't drop further, using 1.45V. can't drop it any further. Any help would be appreciated! Here are some settings:
> 
> It would be nice to get it to C12 or C13 at least so that my 10980XE can get even 5000 score in R15.


Faster than 4000c16 isn't easy on x299. 4200c16 is doable with 10 series x299 on Asus Apex/omega/encore, but it's not very easy. *If you want it stable, and not just "benchmark stable"

That is my opinion.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> TheNaitsyrk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there dudes. I'm having some issues with my Patriot Steel 4400Mhz memory. I got it at 4000Mhz with CL15 but can't drop further, using 1.45V. can't drop it any further. Any help would be appreciated! Here are some settings:
> 
> It would be nice to get it to C12 or C13 at least so that my 10980XE can get even 5000 score in R15.
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than 4000c16 isn't easy on x299. 4200c16 is doable with 10 series x299 on Asus Apex/omega/encore, but it's not very easy. *If you want it stable, and not just "benchmark stable"
> 
> That is my opinion.
Click to expand...

I got X299 EVGA Dark. Just got CL14 4000Mhz with 1.55V on RAM, but that voltage for RAM is not safe I know.

So is there nothing I can actually do regarding memory speed? Really trying to get that 5000 R15 score...


----------



## propsandmayhem

I stumbled upon a sweetspot I think 1.1v sa/io requirement currently for 4000 mt/s. Still testing the most recent changes but I wasn't expecting that latency.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> TheNaitsyrk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there dudes. I'm having some issues with my Patriot Steel 4400Mhz memory. I got it at 4000Mhz with CL15 but can't drop further, using 1.45V. can't drop it any further. Any help would be appreciated! Here are some settings:
> 
> It would be nice to get it to C12 or C13 at least so that my 10980XE can get even 5000 score in R15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than 4000c16 isn't easy on x299. 4200c16 is doable with 10 series x299 on Asus Apex/omega/encore, but it's not very easy. *If you want it stable, and not just "benchmark stable"
> 
> That is my opinion.
Click to expand...

What is also weird I just dropped the memory to 3800Mhz and CL17 and scores are exactly the same in Cinebench. Should be lower. I really don't get this.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> I am guessing you are one of those who enables pagefile when running ram test
> 
> It aint opinion. Its how ram test are done. With all ui disabled and anything that can free up ram.
> Gpu drivers reserves ram and when u approach close to max limit they are gonna fail which will revert to more free up ram. Hence might as well uninstall them.
> 
> What other “opinion” you talkin about. How much do you really test to check.


I don't have other programs or a ton of background stuff going on while i test RAM. But I'm not THAT anal about it that I uninstall GPU drivers or run windows in diagnostic mode... I dare say nobody else in here does that either, but I could be wrong. I have completed 2 hours of P95 112k fft, 1000+% of HCI and 3 hours of GSAT - aswell as ~2 hours of BFV multiplayer gameplay. This is enough for me


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What is also weird I just dropped the memory to 3800Mhz and CL17 and scores are exactly the same in Cinebench. Should be lower. I really don't get this.


Cinebench doesn't care that much of memory speed. X299 has enough bandwidth for Cinebench, so bandwidth isn't a big bottleneck.


----------



## Falkentyne

Betroz said:


> I don't have other programs or a ton of background stuff going on while i test RAM. But I'm not THAT anal about it that I uninstall GPU drivers or run windows in diagnostic mode... I dare say nobody else in here does that either, but I could be wrong. I have completed 2 hours of P95 112k fft, 1000+% of HCI and 3 hours of GSAT - aswell as ~2 hours of BFV multiplayer gameplay. This is enough for me


This is enough testing.

you don't have to do other people's tests to test your RAM. It's your computer, after all, is it not?
This is not some "official apply for a job at XXX company overclocking qualification."
If you don't crash, ever, then it's stable. And that's all you need in the end.

It's good to look at other peoples methods and ideas and see what works for yourself and what adapts for your own needs. Then choose what helps and benefits you and ignore what you can't tolerate. As a human being, you are free to set your own standards. Do whatever works for you.


----------



## ThrashZone

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What is also weird I just dropped the memory to 3800Mhz and CL17 and scores are exactly the same in Cinebench. Should be lower. I really don't get this.


Hi,
R15 is what 30 second test on 18 cores ? lol


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> I don't have other programs or a ton of background stuff going on while i test RAM. But I'm not THAT anal about it that I uninstall GPU drivers or run windows in diagnostic mode... I dare say nobody else in here does that either, but I could be wrong. I have completed 2 hours of P95 112k fft, 1000+% of HCI and 3 hours of GSAT - aswell as ~2 hours of BFV multiplayer gameplay. This is enough for me


thats your lvl bro. 
yesterday you didnt know about fft112. today you do. 2dimm oc is irrelevant for me. 4dimm since ddr2. so thats where i @.


----------



## skullbringer

block arrived today from highflow.nl

was a bit of a hassle to get the trident z heatspreaders off, but hairdryer did the job of softening the thermal adhesive

Temps looking pretty good so far


----------



## Robostyle

Guys, Ive found b-die dualrank 32GB kit nicely priced; looking for something interesting afore rocket lake release,
tested briefly on my platform ([email protected]), so without z490 I can’t push it to the max, aand I don’t have any OC statistics at all, so Im gonna ask here:
dualranks b-die, factory 3200CL14, little bit better than those I have, had them for an ~hour, at first glance they can do 3600CL14 or 3733CL15 @ 1.5V, unstable going below that voltage, couldn't push them above 4000 because of Z370. Kit stays stable in memtest up to 55-56C
So, judging from only what I’ve tested for an hour - how is it?, above potato/below potato level?


----------



## itssladenlol

Robostyle said:


> Guys, Ive found b-die dualrank 32GB kit nicely priced; looking for something interesting afore rocket lake release,
> tested briefly on my platform ([email protected]), so without z490 I can’t push it to the max, aand I don’t have any OC statistics at all, so Im gonna ask here:
> dualranks b-die, factory 3200CL14, little bit better than those I have, had them for an ~hour, at first glance they can do 3600CL14 or 3733CL15 @ 1.5V, unstable going below that voltage, couldn't push them above 4000 because of Z370. Kit stays stable in memtest up to 55-56C
> So, judging from only what I’ve tested for an hour - how is it?, above potato/below potato level?


Hard to say, but it seems potato.
i have the same 3200 c14 dual rank b-die kit and can run them at 4200 c16 1,4v on maximus xii hero.
using them 4400 c17 with 1.5v.

1.5v at 3600 cl14 or 3733 c15 seems really bad.


----------



## Falkentyne

itssladenlol said:


> Hard to say, but it seems potato.
> i have the same 3200 c14 dual rank b-die kit and can run them at 4200 c16 1,4v on maximus xii hero.
> using them 4400 c17 with 1.5v.
> 
> 1.5v at 3600 cl14 or 3733 c15 seems really bad.


Did you look at his chipset?
he isn't on Z490 "haha let's overclock 2x16 GB 3200 CL14 to 4133 CL16 at 1.45v" chipset."
Considering he's on Z370 he's doing good to reach 3733 CL15 to begin with, regardless of 1.5v.

And BTW, just to let you know, my 2018 3200 C14 dual rank sticks can't do 3733 at CL15 even at 1.5v on Z490. Too unstable, unless I really loosen the subs.
The 2020 sticks of the same SKU do this without even trying much.


----------



## propsandmayhem

Finally got some stability with above 4000 MT/s with this kit and the numbers are looking great. Thank you everyone so far for the help!


----------



## Robostyle

itssladenlol said:


> Hard to say, but it seems potato.
> i have the same 3200 c14 dual rank b-die kit and can run them at 4200 c16 1,4v on maximus xii hero.
> using them 4400 c17 with 1.5v.
> 
> 1.5v at 3600 cl14 or 3733 c15 seems really bad.


Duuuude... I’m on M10H, not M12H. 
LGA1200 has vastly improved circuits - dont even dream about running dualranks above 3800 with s1151 - if it is not Apex, or Gene, or some top tier MSI / 2 sticks board.
And btw, 3600CL14 is just around your 4400CL17 - in terms of latency/response of course, not bandwith.




Falkentyne said:


> Did you look at his chipset?
> he isn't on Z490 "haha let's overclock 2x16 GB 3200 CL14 to 4133 CL16 at 1.45v" chipset."
> Considering he's on Z370 he's doing good to reach 3733 CL15 to begin with, regardless of 1.5v.
> 
> And BTW, just to let you know, my 2018 3200 C14 dual rank sticks can't do 3733 at CL15 even at 1.5v on Z490. Too unstable, unless I really loosen the subs.
> The 2020 sticks of the same SKU do this without even trying much.


Hm, so they’re good, but not that much? Price is ~210$, maybe I could bargain down to 180.

I know there’re 16Gb SR sticks coming, A-die aswell, capable of 5GHz and maybe above - but there’s zero offering right now here, and due to overall poverty I dont think they will ever be here. Its hard to find something above 3200-3600 at all, not even thinking about good timings.


----------



## munternet

Robostyle said:


> Guys, Ive found b-die dualrank 32GB kit nicely priced; looking for something interesting afore rocket lake release,
> tested briefly on my platform ([email protected]), so without z490 I can’t push it to the max, aand I don’t have any OC statistics at all, so Im gonna ask here:
> dualranks b-die, factory 3200CL14, little bit better than those I have, had them for an ~hour, at first glance they can do 3600CL14 or 3733CL15 @ 1.5V, unstable going below that voltage, couldn't push them above 4000 because of Z370. Kit stays stable in memtest up to 55-56C
> So, judging from only what I’ve tested for an hour - how is it?, above potato/below potato level?


Maximus X Hero is tough to overclock 2 sticks with at the best of times being T-Topology 
What sticks are they?


----------



## skullbringer

propsandmayhem said:


> Finally got some stability with above 4000 MT/s with this kit and the numbers are looking great. Thank you everyone so far for the help!


nice one, good job dude! :thumb:


----------



## propsandmayhem

trying something ballsy, raised vdimm to 1.6.


----------



## Robostyle

G.skill tridentz neo [email protected]


----------



## propsandmayhem

skullbringer said:


> nice one, good job dude! :thumb:


I applied your suggestion to this current setup, a decent gain I think so time for another hour of each test and we will see. I dropped trdrd and twrwr_sg to 6, hopefully that wasn't too ambitious. lol


----------



## skullbringer

figured out what my issues was with tm5 and hci stability, apparently those are very sensitive when you have high clock/CL ratio with higher dram voltage and vtt dram voltage.

so lowering clock and voltages and tightening all the timings except cl did the trick. ~same latency as 4400 16-16-16-32, but needs less voltage, and is more stable. 

ofc the long running gsat test over night got killed by sleep mode :/ so here is a 2 hour for my troubles


----------



## propsandmayhem

skullbringer said:


> figured out what my issues was with tm5 and hci stability, apparently those are very sensitive when you have high clock/CL ratio with higher dram voltage and vtt dram voltage.
> 
> so lowering clock and voltages and tightening all the timings except cl did the trick. ~same latency as 4400 16-16-16-32, but needs less voltage, and is more stable.
> 
> ofc the long running gsat test over night got killed by sleep mode :/ so here is a 2 hour for my troubles


Here's what I use for gsat https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/egz9oz/gsat_linux_live_cd_how_to_easily_and_safely/ plus I find I have issues with the pause delay if I run it in wsl or anything based on the newer kernel. If you want to rid sleep mode from your machine run powercfg /h off which disables hibernate/fast boot as well.


----------



## mouacyk

skullbringer said:


> figured out what my issues was with tm5 and hci stability, apparently those are very sensitive when you have high clock/CL ratio with higher dram voltage and vtt dram voltage.
> 
> so lowering clock and voltages and tightening all the timings except cl did the trick. ~same latency as 4400 16-16-16-32, but needs less voltage, and is more stable.
> 
> ofc the long running gsat test over night got killed by sleep mode :/ so here is a 2 hour for my troubles


gsat copy speed is wrong. seems like you ended up testing swap memory in the mix


----------



## skullbringer

mouacyk said:


> gsat copy speed is wrong. seems like you ended up testing swap memory in the mix


memory parameter is set as 30000 MBytes, with 32GB installed in the system, but does it really matter if I tested a few megabytes in my swap file, too?


----------



## aj_hix36

I'm going crazy trying to figure this stuff out.
I've got a Samsung b-die kit that has xmp set for 3200 c14-14-14-34, it is 2x16. I have a 6700k, and an Asrock Z170 Gaming K6. It absolutely will not boot using xmp, so I have to increase the vccio/sa to 1.25 and 1.3. 

Then I tried to see what my absolute limits would be, I put vram to 1.5v, io to 1.25 which is the max I can pick, and sa 1.35 to the max I can pick. 

No matter how loose the timings, it absolutely would not post beyond 3700.

So I scale it back to 3600, and I get it to take 16-16-16-38, and into windows. Feels pretty stable, I would expect that since I'm dumping a stupid amount of voltage in this thing. Well then I try hci memtest pro, and of course, 1 error pops up after 2 hours. I check the dimms reportred temps, they are like 44c. Well so I scale back the voltage to dram 1.4 and sa 1.3, and see if that helps any in case I was unstable due to temp, plus I make my fans on cpu and case run faster. 

Well that took a few C off and running the test to 100%, Yay no errors, though I'm sure it would have if I ran overnight. I move to try out prime95, and ran large without making any changes, within 5 minutes it's failed on multiple threads. I also see in this thread to try doing 112k no avx, I do that, INSTANT failure. So I pop the sa voltage back to max and it still instant fails. 

At this point I'm really frustrated and dissapointed because it looks like I can't even get 3600cl16 stable, which just feels like a kick in the dick when I have a 3200cl14 kit.

I'm not sure what to do, I'm really lost on if I can do anything with the secondary and tertiary timings, I've left these on auto because they make my head hurt to have 50 settings that aren't explained anywhere. I've tried to read so many things and I just can't find a good video or guide that explains those timings, and if it would even help if I'm already unstable using the I assume much looser auto settings. 

Am I just absolutely screwed because my memory controller is apparently a dumpster fire?


----------



## Falkentyne

aj_hix36 said:


> I'm going crazy trying to figure this stuff out.
> I've got a Samsung b-die kit that has xmp set for 3200 c14-14-14-34, it is 2x16. I have a 6700k, and an Asrock Z170 Gaming K6. It absolutely will not boot using xmp, so I have to increase the vccio/sa to 1.25 and 1.3.
> 
> Then I tried to see what my absolute limits would be, I put vram to 1.5v, io to 1.25 which is the max I can pick, and sa 1.35 to the max I can pick.
> 
> No matter how loose the timings, it absolutely would not post beyond 3700.
> 
> So I scale it back to 3600, and I get it to take 16-16-16-38, and into windows. Feels pretty stable, I would expect that since I'm dumping a stupid amount of voltage in this thing. Well then I try hci memtest pro, and of course, 1 error pops up after 2 hours. I check the dimms reportred temps, they are like 44c. Well so I scale back the voltage to dram 1.4 and sa 1.3, and see if that helps any in case I was unstable due to temp, plus I make my fans on cpu and case run faster.
> 
> Well that took a few C off and running the test to 100%, Yay no errors, though I'm sure it would have if I ran overnight. I move to try out prime95, and ran large without making any changes, within 5 minutes it's failed on multiple threads. I also see in this thread to try doing 112k no avx, I do that, INSTANT failure. So I pop the sa voltage back to max and it still instant fails.
> 
> At this point I'm really frustrated and dissapointed because it looks like I can't even get 3600cl16 stable, which just feels like a kick in the dick when I have a 3200cl14 kit.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do, I'm really lost on if I can do anything with the secondary and tertiary timings, I've left these on auto because they make my head hurt to have 50 settings that aren't explained anywhere. I've tried to read so many things and I just can't find a good video or guide that explains those timings, and if it would even help if I'm already unstable using the I assume much looser auto settings.
> 
> Am I just absolutely screwed because my memory controller is apparently a dumpster fire?


What is the date of the sticker marked on that RAM, if there is one (if it's a gskill kit, there should be a date code on it).
When did you buy that kit? 
Is that a gskill kit?


----------



## JoeRambo

skullbringer said:


> memory parameter is set as 30000 MBytes, with 32GB installed in the system, but does it really matter if I tested a few megabytes in my swap file, too?



It does. Basically at 50GB/s you test 180 TB/h and at 2GB/s, well 25 times less. 2GB/s is a joke load on memory controller and sustained use of swap drive might chew through drive endurance if left for long enough.


----------



## aj_hix36

Falkentyne said:


> aj_hix36 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going crazy trying to figure this stuff out.
> I've got a Samsung b-die kit that has xmp set for 3200 c14-14-14-34, it is 2x16. I have a 6700k, and an Asrock Z170 Gaming K6. It absolutely will not boot using xmp, so I have to increase the vccio/sa to 1.25 and 1.3.
> 
> Then I tried to see what my absolute limits would be, I put vram to 1.5v, io to 1.25 which is the max I can pick, and sa 1.35 to the max I can pick.
> 
> No matter how loose the timings, it absolutely would not post beyond 3700.
> 
> So I scale it back to 3600, and I get it to take 16-16-16-38, and into windows. Feels pretty stable, I would expect that since I'm dumping a stupid amount of voltage in this thing. Well then I try hci memtest pro, and of course, 1 error pops up after 2 hours. I check the dimms reportred temps, they are like 44c. Well so I scale back the voltage to dram 1.4 and sa 1.3, and see if that helps any in case I was unstable due to temp, plus I make my fans on cpu and case run faster.
> 
> Well that took a few C off and running the test to 100%, Yay no errors, though I'm sure it would have if I ran overnight. I move to try out prime95, and ran large without making any changes, within 5 minutes it's failed on multiple threads. I also see in this thread to try doing 112k no avx, I do that, INSTANT failure. So I pop the sa voltage back to max and it still instant fails.
> 
> At this point I'm really frustrated and dissapointed because it looks like I can't even get 3600cl16 stable, which just feels like a kick in the dick when I have a 3200cl14 kit.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do, I'm really lost on if I can do anything with the secondary and tertiary timings, I've left these on auto because they make my head hurt to have 50 settings that aren't explained anywhere. I've tried to read so many things and I just can't find a good video or guide that explains those timings, and if it would even help if I'm already unstable using the I assume much looser auto settings.
> 
> Am I just absolutely screwed because my memory controller is apparently a dumpster fire?
> 
> 
> 
> What is the date of the sticker marked on that RAM, if there is one (if it's a gskill kit, there should be a date code on it).
> When did you buy that kit?
> Is that a gskill kit?
Click to expand...

Sorry, had to go yank it out to find out what the sticker said. 

Yes it is the g.skill, date is 2020 Jul, I just bought them last week off Newegg. F4-3200c14d-32gvk to be specific.


----------



## aj_hix36

Thaiphoon Burner Info


----------



## skullbringer

mouacyk said:


> gsat copy speed is wrong. seems like you ended up testing swap memory in the mix





JoeRambo said:


> It does. Basically at 50GB/s you test 180 TB/h and at 2GB/s, well 25 times less. 2GB/s is a joke load on memory controller and sustained use of swap drive might chew through drive endurance if left for long enough.





Code:


[email protected]:~$ stressapptest -C 20 -W -M 30000 -s 10 --pause_delay 11 -v 1
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: Using memaligned allocation at 0x7f0167421000.
Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 15252.00M in 9.71s 1570.74MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
[email protected]:~$ stressapptest -m 20 -W -M 30000 -s 10 --pause_delay 11 -v 1
Stats: SAT revision 1.0.6_autoconf, 64 bit binary
Log: Using memaligned allocation at 0x7f83f5971000.
Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
Stats: Completed: 496534.00M in 9.38s 52951.21MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
[email protected]:~$ stressapptest --help | grep -e '\-C ' -e '\-m '
 -m threads       number of memory copy threads to run
 -C threads       number of memory CPU stress threads to run

you're right... oh ffs, apparenlty gotta use -m, not -C to specify thread count! 

whatever "memory CPU stress threads" are, you don't want them when stress testing your memory apparently?! what's the purpose of those then?
that's a misleading man page if I've ever seen one...

it's true, memory oc does make people go insane


----------



## JoeRambo

I just run something like 

stressapptest -W -M 26624 -s 7200 --pause_delay 57600 

for validating settings

stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 43200 --pause_delay 57600
for 12h runs over the night and/or job


30GB is too much, something like random windows background work or notepad open can throw it into using swap, and once it does it won't ever recover unless enough memory is released.


----------



## skullbringer

JoeRambo said:


> I just run something like
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 26624 -s 7200 --pause_delay 57600
> 
> for validating settings
> 
> stressapptest -W -M 28672 -s 43200 --pause_delay 57600
> for 12h runs over the night and/or job
> 
> 
> 30GB is too much, something like random windows background work or notepad open can throw it into using swap, and once it does it won't ever recover unless enough memory is released.


-C was actually causing the 2GB/s bottleneck, -m doesn't

I have a pretty stripped Windows install, Defender turned off etc., so -M 30000 gives me 96% memory usage in task manager and 0 swap use according to free -g in wsl, so should be fine.

When I have chrome running, memory usage eats into swap and I get like 17GB/s, so a clear bottleneck, but still substantially faster than the 2GB/s from -C option, so overallocation definitely wasn't my actual issue, but tipped me off, so thx


----------



## Falkentyne

aj_hix36 said:


> Sorry, had to go yank it out to find out what the sticker said.
> 
> Yes it is the g.skill, date is 2020 Jul, I just bought them last week off Newegg. F4-3200c14d-32gvk to be specific.


Your ancient board and IMC are holding you back.
On a Z490 board, those sticks would do 16/16/16/32 at 4000-4266.


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> it's true, memory oc does make people go insane


Extra performance for free is great, but all the testing is too much sometimes. It would be interesting to know where the sweetspot is. Is it really worth going above 4000 C16 for gaming I wonder... Sure 4700 C17 is faster, but is it REALLY noticeable in games or the apps people use...


----------



## JoeRambo

I doubt -m and -C does the same "stress" thing. 30GB allocation is simply too much to ask from 32GB system. Going down to 29.5GB should fix things.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Extra performance for free is great, but all the testing is too much sometimes. It would be interesting to know where the sweetspot is. Is it really worth going above 4000 C16 for gaming I wonder... Sure 4700 C17 is faster, but is it REALLY noticeable in games or the apps people use...


I think you might be onto something. I'm currently running a docile 4200c17 on my 2*16GB and it feels every bit as fast, if not faster in BFV than higher settings where I have to feed it voltages


----------



## Betroz

Have anybody here tested the Viper 4400C19 sticks at "low" voltage of 1.45v and tested how far they OC on that? I can try that myself, but just to know what to aim for.


----------



## skullbringer

JoeRambo said:


> I doubt -m and -C does the same "stress" thing. 30GB allocation is simply too much to ask from 32GB system. Going down to 29.5GB should fix things.


never said -m and -C do the same thing, quite the contrary actually. and no, its not too much:


Code:


[1]+ stressapptest -m 20 -W -M 30000 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3601 --stop_on_errors &
Log: Seconds remaining: 2477
[email protected]:~$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:          32643       31181        1238          17         223        1332
Swap:         28548          61       28486


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Have anybody here tested the Viper 4400C19 sticks at "low" voltage of 1.45v and tested how far they OC on that? I can try that myself, but just to know what to aim for.


From memory 4200-16-16-16-36 was easy on the Gene but maybe not quite 1.45v
4000-15-1T should be about 1.45vdimm
My sticks loved vdimm but others have said different so I don't know 

Edit: I still have my vipers here if you want me to run them up @ 1.45v over the weekend 
You want 1T or 2T?


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Hi, Guys.
I corrected some timings, and I will leave them for permanent use. Next I will try 4800Mhz CL 17-17-17, but this is another story)


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Edit: I still have my vipers here if you want me to run them up @ 1.45v over the weekend
> You want 1T or 2T?


Thanks but I can try it myself, just wondered if anybody had the data already 
My Vipers need 1.58 VDIMM for 4400 16-17-17-34 and tight subtimings. If it works, it works and I have a fan on them. But if I could run say, 4133 with 15-16-16-32 at ~1.5 VDIMM, that could be worth trying. As a bonus I could lower IO and SA too. Hmmm.


----------



## propsandmayhem

skullbringer said:


> never said -m and -C do the same thing, quite the contrary actually. and no, its not too much:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [1]+ stressapptest -m 20 -W -M 30000 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3601 --stop_on_errors &
> Log: Seconds remaining: 2477
> [email protected]:~$ free -m
> total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
> Mem:          32643       31181        1238          17         223        1332
> Swap:         28548          61       28486


Sorry to bug you but the link I posted above is an auto run linux bootable, using tiny core. It auto runs with the proper command for full stress for 9999999 seconds, you can just quit when you a finished the test with ctrl + c and ctrl + alt + del to reboot. Give it a try if you want, I hope I am not spamming you just trying to help is all.. Here nothing to special but its fully linX stable.

EDIT: just a reminder with the GSAT bootable it does need CSM compatibility mode turned on in BIOS. I might fiddle today and see if I can get an updated UEFI version working with the new source (that one is compiled 2019 but should still be "as good."


----------



## reflex75

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Hi, Guys.
> I corrected some timings, and I will leave them for permanent use. Next I will try 4800Mhz CL 17-17-17, but this is another story)


Nice both bandwidth and latency!
Your 2 dimms board (Gene) helps with higher frequency (like Apex).
What was your ram max temperature during the test?
Have you tried to lower tWR to 12?


----------



## Imprezzion

I unfortunately have to upgrade to a 32GB kit as with working from home and such I run into loads of issues with 16GB memory unfortunately.

My specific kit wasn't guaranteed B-Die anyway and the 3466C16 Vengeance RGB gen 1 kits are not available anymore so I can't easily expand my current kit with another 2x8GB kit.

Current 2x8GB kit runs 4200CL16-17-17-34-320-2T just fine on 1.55v even with it being a very poor bin.

So, what should I look out for for a 32GB kit? Like, SR vs DR, 4x8 vs 2x16, that kinda stuff. Which base timings?

I mean, 3600CL16 are by far the cheapest next to 3200CL14 but maybe there are other kits suitable as well.

So, if you guys could help me with some recommendations that would be amazing so I can order it for after the weekend.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I unfortunately have to upgrade to a 32GB kit as with working from home and such I run into loads of issues with 16GB memory unfortunately.
> 
> My specific kit wasn't guaranteed B-Die anyway and the 3466C16 Vengeance RGB gen 1 kits are not available anymore so I can't easily expand my current kit with another 2x8GB kit.
> 
> Current 2x8GB kit runs 4200CL16-17-17-34-320-2T just fine on 1.55v even with it being a very poor bin.
> 
> So, what should I look out for for a 32GB kit? Like, SR vs DR, 4x8 vs 2x16, that kinda stuff. Which base timings?
> 
> I mean, 3600CL16 are by far the cheapest next to 3200CL14 but maybe there are other kits suitable as well.
> 
> So, if you guys could help me with some recommendations that would be amazing so I can order it for after the weekend.


If you are running a Z390 rig, go for 4000C17Q-32G, or you are lucky enough to source a 4266C17Q.

For Z490, the current best choice is 4000C17D-32G.


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If you are running a Z390 rig, go for 4000C17Q-32G, or you are lucky enough to source a 4266C17Q.
> 
> For Z490, the current best choice is 4000C17D-32G.


Yeah no . All 3 of those SKU's for like, €230-300 or more lol. The 4200's go for €700+...

I kind of want a kit like my 3466CL16 B-Die's. As cheap as possible with the most fun and gain to be had with overclocking. The 4000CL17Q looked promising but not in stock anywhere locally.

Like for example I see a lot of peop here using Patriot 4000-4400 CL19 kits and they seem to do very well. 

The downside is that I'm in Holland EU and most brands that are cheap stateside aren't here. Basically the only thing we get cheap is Corsair, g.skill and Kingston. Stuff like Patriot, AData, Team and such just isn't well priced here.

So, will be staying Z390, there a zero need for Z490 as long as that doesn't have any upgrade path again and doesn't even have proper PCI-E Gen 4 support so.. yeh the 9900K isn't going anywhere. 4200 is the max for the IMC anyway on 2 dimm's so I don't really expect it to do much more then 4000 with SR 4x8 or DR 2x16 GB honestly.

That's kinda why I asked for advice. What combination would get me the highest probable clocks / lowest timings on a set of random low bin B-Die for 32GB.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

reflex75 said:


> Nice both bandwidth and latency!
> Your 2 dimms board (Gene) helps with higher frequency (like Apex).
> What was your ram max temperature during the test?
> Have you tried to lower tWR to 12?


Thanks
Unfortunately, there is no temperature sensor on this memory set. I haven't tried tWR yet, and I don't see the point, since it doesn't do much good. On twr, there are still controversial points on jedec, but the understatement does not give much. In the future, I still want to play with some timings.


----------



## propsandmayhem

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If you are running a Z390 rig, go for 4000C17Q-32G, or you are lucky enough to source a 4266C17Q.
> 
> For Z490, the current best choice is 4000C17D-32G.


What's your opinion on the 4000c15 kits for z390? A bit pricey but still have a bit of room to work with if your going 4dimm. I find 4200 to be a realistic limit if you don't want to us more SA/IO voltage.

My vote for cheap OC would be for the 3600c15 kit if you can get them otherwise the 3200c14 kit can play source: I own 2x2x8GB and they run 4000 with just under 8ns but just need a bit more voltage to get there and you just have to mind the heat but you get sensors so that's nice. The 4400 patriots are a cheap option but I can't speak to the current binning since their popularity sky rocketed. Mine will do a bit quicker than the 3200 kit but not much, the vipers seem a bit more voltage sensitive or at least maybe VTT termination.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> I unfortunately have to upgrade to a 32GB kit as with working from home and such I run into loads of issues with 16GB memory unfortunately.
> 
> My specific kit wasn't guaranteed B-Die anyway and the 3466C16 Vengeance RGB gen 1 kits are not available anymore so I can't easily expand my current kit with another 2x8GB kit.
> 
> Current 2x8GB kit runs 4200CL16-17-17-34-320-2T just fine on 1.55v even with it being a very poor bin.
> 
> So, what should I look out for for a 32GB kit? Like, SR vs DR, 4x8 vs 2x16, that kinda stuff. Which base timings?
> 
> I mean, 3600CL16 are by far the cheapest next to 3200CL14 but maybe there are other kits suitable as well.
> 
> So, if you guys could help me with some recommendations that would be amazing so I can order it for after the weekend.


Get the gskill 2x16 GB 3200 CL14 kits.

These are guaranteed to be 2020 year kits. Multiple people have bought from this amazon seller and have gotten 2020 year kits (mine says February 2020, but I know some are up to June 2020 now).
Should be a pretty easy 16/16/16 overclock at 4000+mhz on Z490 for you. Z390, I don't know.

https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Trid...X0DER&qid=1597431083&s=merchant-items&sr=1-18

I do not know if the same kits on newegg will be 2020 year kits but they "should" be. They are miles better than the 2018 kits of the same sku.
Now if you want 4x8 GB, I don't know.


----------



## nick name

Falkentyne said:


> Get the gskill 2x16 GB 3200 CL14 kits.
> 
> These are guaranteed to be 2020 year kits. Multiple people have bought from this amazon seller and have gotten 2020 year kits (mine says February 2020, but I know some are up to June 2020 now).
> Should be a pretty easy 16/16/16 overclock at 4000+mhz on Z490 for you. Z390, I don't know.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Trid...X0DER&qid=1597431083&s=merchant-items&sr=1-18
> 
> I do not know if the same kits on newegg will be 2020 year kits but they "should" be. They are miles better than the 2018 kits of the same sku.
> Now if you want 4x8 GB, I don't know.


I bought a 3600C15 and 4400C19 kit off of Newegg and both are June/July 2020.


----------



## Falkentyne

nick name said:


> I bought a 3600C15 and 4400C19 kit off of Newegg and both are June/July 2020.


I thought I was slick and could try to boot 4133 @ 15/15/15/36 @ 1.50v on 2x16 GB 3200 CL14 sticks.
Yeah it loaded windows but 5 errors in Testmem5 extreme1 in 30 seconds. Surprised it didn't instacrash.
I wonder if it needs 1.55v. I'm not going to daily 1.55v.

16/16/16/36 @ 1.45v @ 4133 (DDR VTT=0.750v) is solid though
Do you think I have a chance at 16/16/16/36 @ 4266 mhz?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

propsandmayhem said:


> What's your opinion on the 4000c15 kits for z390? A bit pricey but still have a bit of room to work with if your going 4dimm. I find 4200 to be a realistic limit if you don't want to us more SA/IO voltage.
> 
> My vote for cheap OC would be for the 3600c15 kit if you can get them otherwise the 3200c14 kit can play source: I own 2x2x8GB and they run 4000 with just under 8ns but just need a bit more voltage to get there and you just have to mind the heat but you get sensors so that's nice. The 4400 patriots are a cheap option but I can't speak to the current binning since their popularity sky rocketed. Mine will do a bit quicker than the 3200 kit but not much, the vipers seem a bit more voltage sensitive or at least maybe VTT termination.


If you are rocking a T-Topology Z390, the best choice should among the 4000C17Q, 4000C15Q, and 4266C17Q. Those are all well-paired 4-dimm kits.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah no . All 3 of those SKU's for like, €230-300 or more lol. The 4200's go for €700+...
> 
> I kind of want a kit like my 3466CL16 B-Die's. As cheap as possible with the most fun and gain to be had with overclocking. The 4000CL17Q looked promising but not in stock anywhere locally.
> 
> Like for example I see a lot of peop here using Patriot 4000-4400 CL19 kits and they seem to do very well.
> 
> The downside is that I'm in Holland EU and most brands that are cheap stateside aren't here. Basically the only thing we get cheap is Corsair, g.skill and Kingston. Stuff like Patriot, AData, Team and such just isn't well priced here.
> 
> So, will be staying Z390, there a zero need for Z490 as long as that doesn't have any upgrade path again and doesn't even have proper PCI-E Gen 4 support so.. yeh the 9900K isn't going anywhere. 4200 is the max for the IMC anyway on 2 dimm's so I don't really expect it to do much more then 4000 with SR 4x8 or DR 2x16 GB honestly.
> 
> That's kinda why I asked for advice. What combination would get me the highest probable clocks / lowest timings on a set of random low bin B-Die for 32GB.


Everything is about money. Either you spend money on low-binned b-die sticks, like buy a batch of 3600C15D, pick 4 best to pair a 4-DIMM kit and sell the rest, or you buy a 4-DIMM kit from gskill, and later return for RMA if you cant run XMP


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Get the gskill 2x16 GB 3200 CL14 kits.
> 
> These are guaranteed to be 2020 year kits. Multiple people have bought from this amazon seller and have gotten 2020 year kits (mine says February 2020, but I know some are up to June 2020 now).
> Should be a pretty easy 16/16/16 overclock at 4000+mhz on Z490 for you. Z390, I don't know.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Trid...X0DER&qid=1597431083&s=merchant-items&sr=1-18
> 
> I do not know if the same kits on newegg will be 2020 year kits but they "should" be. They are miles better than the 2018 kits of the same sku.
> Now if you want 4x8 GB, I don't know.


I bought a 3600C16D-32GTZN kit on July 26th and it was produced in the mid of July (30th week), 2020.


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I bought a 3600C16D-32GTZN kit on July 26th and it was produced in the mid of July (30th week), 2020.


Hi,
How do you know that 
I've never noticed a date


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> How do you know that
> I've never noticed a date


On the sticks, you may check the first 4 digits of the SN


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> On the sticks, you may check the first 4 digits of the SN


Hi,
I see it yeah never noticed Sep 2019 on my second set of 3600c16 4x8 kit other kit is installed so tough to say early 2019 or late 2018 I forget 
They do okay I think I'm not really trying to set any land air speed records just a nice tuned 4k mhz decent temps/ voltage.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I see it yeah never noticed Sep 2019 on my second set of 3600c16 4x8 kit other kit is installed so tough to say early 2019 or late 2018 I forget
> They do okay I think I'm not really trying to set any land air speed records just a nice tuned 4k mhz decent temps/ voltage.


Yup. That's the spirit  Unless you need to pair a kit you really needn't to notice the batch.

I think Newegg has a secret connection with GSkill. This kit was bought on Aug 3.


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup. That's the spirit  Unless you need to pair a kit you really needn't to notice the batch.
> 
> I think Newegg has a secret connection with GSkill. This kit was bought on Aug 3.


Hi,
Yeah I've bought all my memory from newegg 
Second 3600c16 4x8 kit must be older it doesn't have the sn numbers on the box like thew other they are kind of separated with the barcode 
If I were to guess one looks like it could be 4 2019 starts with 4 7196....


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Nope have to look my 3200c14 4x8 kit says the same thing and it shows Feb 2018 on it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah I've bought all my memory from newegg
> Second 3600c16 4x8 kit must be older it doesn't have the sn numbers on the box like thew other they are kind of separated with the barcode
> If I were to guess one looks like it could be 4 2019 starts with 4 7196....


Some kits don't have such on the outer box, like the recent Trident NEO. You may need to look at the sticks. In 2019 it would be like 1941xxxxxx


----------



## ThrashZone

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Some kits don't have such on the outer box, like the recent Trident NEO. You may need to look at the sticks. In 2019 it would be like 1941xxxxxx


Hi,
Actually the second kit I referred to is really the first I bought of 3600c16 it's in x299 rig bought it a little after 3200c14 kit I believe so maybe mid 2018.
Still good kit though 1.41v 4k mhz.


----------



## propsandmayhem

I had to order mine special since they aren't regular stocked, maybe it was worth it to get the 2020s, as compared to the 2019 on my 3200 sticks which crap out shortly after 4000. 

Running HCI, even though I still don't think HCI is a memory test but everyone swears by it even though it just pins the CPU full on some memory calculations as compared to Karhu or TM5 which makes my Dimms almost 10*C higher. Had to drop rtfc from 272 to 280 since I was locking up running my GPU during TM5, hit a max of 43 in 10 cycles of ollie


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Actually the second kit I referred to is really the first I bought of 3600c16 it's in x299 rig bought it a little after 3200c14 kit I believe so maybe mid 2018.
> Still good kit though 1.41v 4k mhz.


Nice. You can also check the barcode for the detailed weeks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

propsandmayhem said:


> I had to order mine special since they aren't regular stocked, maybe it was worth it to get the 2020s, as compared to the 2019 on my 3200 sticks which crap out shortly after 4000.
> 
> Running HCI, even though I still don't think HCI is a memory test but everyone swears by it even though it just pins the CPU full on some memory calculations as compared to Karhu or TM5 which makes my Dimms almost 10*C higher. Had to drop rtfc from 272 to 280 since I was locking up running my GPU during TM5, hit a max of 43 in 10 cycles of ollie


IMO it should be a very effective ram cooling as of the 4-DIMM case


----------



## propsandmayhem

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> IMO it should be a very effective ram cooling as of the 4-DIMM case


43 was absolute peak but they levelled out to 42 so maybe 272 trfc isn't out of the question yet. Any lower however and I was getting immediate issues even in aida.

This takes care of the cooling but I've considered something cleaner that attaches, I've seen an aliexpress one posted I'm just too impatient to order it.


----------



## Imprezzion

The absolute cheapest B-Die 32GB kit I can get locally are the G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3000C14D-32GTZR and G.Skill Flare X F4-3200C14D-32GFX. They go for like, €200 and are guaranteed B-Die affording to the GitHub B-Die finder thing.

Then there's the more mainstream kits like the G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3600C16D-32GTZR which are at like, €285 in stock which is quite a jump for probably no real world benefit on my not-so-good IMC.

Then there's option 3, secondhand. Which I don't mind, I always buy everything PC related secondhand, and even if someone sells broken RAM it has lifelong warranty anyway so /care.

That would get me for €200 a only once tested and not working in AMD in DOCP set of F4-3600C16D-32GTZN Trident Z Neo bought in the US and brought back here by the seller actually on 29/06/2020 so big chance it's a very recent kit.

I think I'll send an offer to the Trident Z Neo dude. They are DR sticks but still, could be worse


----------



## aj_hix36

How does this look so far? It has been stable so far in everything I toss at it. (Karhu Ram Test, MemTestPro, and Prime95)

My XMP had latency at 51.7 and copy at 41737, so at least in AIDA64, I've gotten improvements.

https://imgur.com/a/dzeBjxj


----------



## reachthesky

Is this as good as it gets for my motherboard/chip at reasonable daily voltages(aida64 fpu avx stable)? Are there any timings holding back latency or bandwidth here or can I finally be finished with overclocking? My kit likes trcd+trp + 2 for tras not the traditional tcl+trcd + 2 for tras. tXP is set to 4 and tRC is set to 45. I don't know why, but I can no longer do 65534 trefi at any frequency any more. I used to be able to do it at every frequency, 65534 trefi is no longer stable at any frequency any more. Is this a sign of imc degradation? Ambient is fine right now so I know its not ambient temps messing things up.


----------



## reachthesky

anybody? I suppose i'll check back after I wake up. If i don't get any responses i'll assume that i am finished here. cheers.


----------



## Gen.

@reachthesky, Hello Friend. I would strongly advise you to buy Hero XI, Formula XI or Extreme XI. I did 4400 17-17 on 4 DIMMS and it was great, also Iols were 7-7-7-7 and forget about it rotten ... believe me, you will only be happy


----------



## reachthesky

Gen. said:


> @*reachthesky* , Hello Friend. I would strongly advise you to buy Hero XI, Formula XI or Extreme XI. I did 4400 17-17 on 4 DIMMS and it was great, also Iols were 7-7-7-7 and forget about it rotten ... believe me, you will only be happy



I have no more money or time to give. thank you for your suggestion.


----------



## reachthesky

Is there any improvements I can make to my configuration or am i finished overclocking? am i following all the ddr4 rules with my configuration?


----------



## Gen.

@reachthesky No, my dear, you still have something to rule. I am sure you will listen to me, since I am not the first rogue here ... 
tWR=12
tRTP=6
tRRD_L=6
tRFC may be low.
tWTR_S=3
tWTR_L=6
tWRRD_sg=26
tWRRD_dg=23
tREFI=65534
All _dr=1 (RDRD_dr=1 and other...)
WRRD_dd may be 5.
tCKE it's better 6 or 8 (priority).


----------



## Gen.

Now I go through LinX and relieve stress.
Here is my config (stable in LinX 0.9.7 with 13312 MB memory 10 times about 40 minutes).
Dram Voltage 1.530V (Bios), 1.540V (HWInfo). Full stab.


----------



## reachthesky

Gen. said:


> @*reachthesky* No, my dear, you still have something to rule. I am sure you will listen to me, since I am not the first rogue here ...
> tWR=12
> tRTP=6
> tRRD_L=6
> tRFC may be low.
> tWTR_S=3
> tWTR_L=6
> tWRRD_sg=26
> tWRRD_dg=23
> tREFI=65534
> All _dr=1 (RDRD_dr=1 and other...)
> WRRD_dd may be 5.
> tCKE it's better 6 or 8 (priority).



I changed tcke back to 6 because i was getting bad 1% lows/stutters in games with tcke at 4. I will have to compare tcke 6 vs 8 in games to see which is better.
twtr s/l will not go any lower 
trtp 6/ twr 12 gave worst latency at any frequency i tried, 7/14 wouldn't train.
trefi does not work any more above 32768, i don't know why, it just won't. It used to, but not anymore.
_DR timings won't budge at all
trrd_l @ 6 gives less performance
twrrd_sg/dg won't budge at all.


----------



## Gen.

33.4ns (tXP=4, PPD=0, OREF_RI=0)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Code:







reachthesky said:


> I changed tcke back to 6 because i was getting bad 1% lows/stutters in games with tcke at 4. I will have to compare tcke 6 vs 8 in games to see which is better.
> twtr s/l will not go any lower
> trtp 6/ twr 12 gave worst latency at any frequency i tried, 7/14 wouldn't train.
> trefi does not work any more above 32768, i don't know why, it just won't. It used to, but not anymore.
> _DR timings won't budge at all
> trrd_l @ 6 gives less performance
> twrrd_sg/dg won't budge at all.


Use MLC to check tCKE. 4 is way better if you can stablize it. AIDA doesn't include tCKE in the benchmark


----------



## ogider

tm5 10 cycles,gsat 1 hour,memtestpro 250%

[email protected]/4.7


----------



## aj_hix36

How do these look? What should I work on next?


----------



## Gen.

@aj_hix36
tWTR_S=3
tWTR_L=6
tRTP=6
RTL Init=63 (fot CL=14)
IOL=6/6
RTL=53/55
Offset=21/21
RDRD_sg=6
RDRD_dg=4
RDRD_dr=6
RDRD_dd=1
WRWR_sg=6
WRWR_dg=4
WRWR_dr=7
WRWR_dd=1
RDWR_sg=12
RDWR_dg=12
RDWR_dr=12
RDWR_dd=1
WRRD_sg=24
WRRD_dg=21
WRRD_dr=6 or 5
WRRD_dd=1

First stabilize these settings, then try 13-13-13-28 or 12-12-12-28, tRFC at the very end, about 240 will be +-


----------



## nick name

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use MLC to check tCKE. 4 is way better if you can stablize it. AIDA doesn't include tCKE in the benchmark


What is MLC?


----------



## nick name

Falkentyne said:


> I thought I was slick and could try to boot 4133 @ 15/15/15/36 @ 1.50v on 2x16 GB 3200 CL14 sticks.
> Yeah it loaded windows but 5 errors in Testmem5 extreme1 in 30 seconds. Surprised it didn't instacrash.
> I wonder if it needs 1.55v. I'm not going to daily 1.55v.
> 
> 16/16/16/36 @ 1.45v @ 4133 (DDR VTT=0.750v) is solid though
> Do you think I have a chance at 16/16/16/36 @ 4266 mhz?


Honestly, I don't know.


----------



## ogider

nick name said:


> What is MLC?


https://software.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/articles/intelr-memory-latency-checker.html


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

nick name said:


> What is MLC?


Intel memory latency checker


----------



## Imprezzion

So, guys, G.Skill Trident Z Neo F4-3200C14D-32GTZN vs. G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3200C14D-32GTZR vs G.Skill Trident Z Neo F4-3600C16D-32GTZN at the same price?

Or maybe G.Skill Flare X F4-3200C14D-32GFX or G.Skill Trident Z F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW for about €40-50 less?

I will order tomorrow so would really really like you guys's input one last time! I would consider different brands but simply said G.Skill is the only brand properly available here with B-Die. Corsair and Crucial and such are far more expensive lol. 

I can get very cheap 3000CL14 B-Die kits but i'm afraid those have way poorer bins and won't really do 4000 at any decent timings.


----------



## N7+

ogider said:


> tm5 10 cycles,gsat 1 hour,memtestpro 250%
> 
> [email protected]/4.7


Where did you get this A.2U bios you're running? Mine reads as A.20.


----------



## ogider

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/198450-msi-z490-meg-family-test-bios/


----------



## reachthesky

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Use MLC to check tCKE. 4 is way better if you can stablize it. AIDA doesn't include tCKE in the benchmark


I don't want any additional things loaded with hardware prefetcher or w/e that i don't fully understand. i'm having a hard enough time staying anonymous as it is.


----------



## reachthesky

Imprezzion said:


> So, guys, G.Skill Trident Z Neo F4-3200C14D-32GTZN vs. G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3200C14D-32GTZR vs G.Skill Trident Z Neo F4-3600C16D-32GTZN at the same price?
> 
> Or maybe G.Skill Flare X F4-3200C14D-32GFX or G.Skill Trident Z F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW for about €40-50 less?
> 
> I will order tomorrow so would really really like you guys's input one last time! I would consider different brands but simply said G.Skill is the only brand properly available here with B-Die. Corsair and Crucial and such are far more expensive lol.
> 
> I can get very cheap 3000CL14 B-Die kits but i'm afraid those have way poorer bins and won't really do 4000 at any decent timings.



It seems you buy kits frequently, why not just save a little longer and get a top notch bdie kit instead?


----------



## reachthesky

Gen. said:


> @*reachthesky* No, my dear, you still have something to rule. I am sure you will listen to me, since I am not the first rogue here ...
> tWR=12
> tRTP=6
> tRRD_L=6
> tRFC may be low.
> tWTR_S=3
> tWTR_L=6
> tWRRD_sg=26
> tWRRD_dg=23
> tREFI=65534
> All _dr=1 (RDRD_dr=1 and other...)
> WRRD_dd may be 5.
> tCKE it's better 6 or 8 (priority).



I used some of your suggestions and made it better. Did overnight stress test with ethernet cable detatched/fresh windows install. 8 hours ezpz HCI. This is the end result. Almost as good as cas 15-4000 on the maximus code xi - a motherboard that costs 25% more. Only slightly behind in latency/writes but not by much at all. Thanks for the suggestions. I believe I have reached the highest performance my motherboard is capable of that is taylered specifically for gaming that can pass aida64 fpu w/avx enabled and hci memtest. Thank you so much for your patience and your guidance everyone, I really do appreciate it. With that said, I believe I am finished overclocking. Cheers and thanks again for everything. I wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors.


----------



## Imprezzion

reachthesky said:


> It seems you buy kits frequently, why not just save a little longer and get a top notch bdie kit instead?


I'm not. I've had this 16GB kit for ages but I simply need 32GB for work and can't get a second kit of my current kit or any 16GB Corsair Vengeance RGB kit to match mine with any speed/timing as the Gen 1 Vengeance RGB kits don't get sold anymore.

Why I don't buy a super expensive B-Die kit? My IMC caps out at 4200 even with 2x8GB so I don't need a 4800Mhz capable kit. I just want a 32GB kit that'll do like, 4000-4200 CL16 which most B-Die's will do. Problem is just that there's a LOT of lots at the same price point so just gathering general advice whether 3200C14 would do better in general then 3600C16 or whether using Trident-Z would do better in general then a cheaper version like Flare X.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> I'm not. I've had this 16GB kit for ages but I simply need 32GB for work and can't get a second kit of my current kit or any 16GB Corsair Vengeance RGB kit to match mine with any speed/timing as the Gen 1 Vengeance RGB kits don't get sold anymore.
> 
> Why I don't buy a super expensive B-Die kit? My IMC caps out at 4200 even with 2x8GB so I don't need a 4800Mhz capable kit. I just want a 32GB kit that'll do like, 4000-4200 CL16 which most B-Die's will do. Problem is just that there's a LOT of lots at the same price point so just gathering general advice whether 3200C14 would do better in general then 3600C16 or whether using Trident-Z would do better in general then a cheaper version like Flare X.


3600 C16 is a lottery. All 3200 C14 can do 3600 C16 at 1.35v, but not all 3600 C16 can do 3200 C14 at 1.35v. 

My 2020 3200 C14 2x16 GB can do 3733 15/15/15/36 @ 1.40v and I haven't tried lower voltage than that. My 2018 sticks error all over the place if I try that.


----------



## Imprezzion

Falkentyne said:


> 3600 C16 is a lottery. All 3200 C14 can do 3600 C16 at 1.35v, but not all 3600 C16 can do 3200 C14 at 1.35v.
> 
> My 2020 3200 C14 2x16 GB can do 3733 15/15/15/36 @ 1.40v and I haven't tried lower voltage than that. My 2018 sticks error all over the place if I try that.


So, basically, a new Trident-Z / Royal RGB kit (for the eye candy) of 3200C14 would be my best bet. It will be DR 2x16GB then. 

Well, I guess I'll order me a kit tomorrow and I'll see what it can do


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> So, basically, a new Trident-Z / Royal RGB kit (for the eye candy) of 3200C14 would be my best bet. It will be DR 2x16GB then.
> 
> Well, I guess I'll order me a kit tomorrow and I'll see what it can do


Someone is saying they are on new PCB's even if the layout is similar to the old sticks but I'm not sure.
I'm only recalling what someone else said.
And that the new PCB's don't do as well with 1T command rate but scale better with 2T.

I managed to uncork this last night with a full 1 cycle pass of TM5 anta777, then a quick 112k prime95 no AVX to make sure the IMC didn't hate me. 16/16/16/36 kept giving Tm5 errors in less than 30 minutes so I loosened tRCD and seems like the IMC doesn't like flat 16's at 4266 (4133 is fine). I had DDR at 1.5v, IO/SA at 1.25/1.30v so I don't know if I can go lower. I like to actually play video games on my computer so I can't run memory tests all day.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Someone is saying they are on new PCB's even if the layout is similar to the old sticks but I'm not sure.
> I'm only recalling what someone else said.
> And that the new PCB's don't do as well with 1T command rate but scale better with 2T.
> 
> I managed to uncork this last night with a full 1 cycle pass of TM5 anta777, then a quick 112k prime95 no AVX to make sure the IMC didn't hate me. 16/16/16/36 kept giving Tm5 errors in less than 30 minutes so I loosened tRCD and seems like the IMC doesn't like flat 16's at 4266 (4133 is fine). I had DDR at 1.5v, IO/SA at 1.25/1.30v so I don't know if I can go lower. I like to actually play video games on my computer so I can't run memory tests all day.


It was me  Its still A2 but with different cap positions...All my 2020 DR bdie gskill have a different PCB layout compared to 2019 kits (marker "SF" vs. "SE").

Post 4000 14-15 1T but still trying to stabilize it. Too many RTL combinations.


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It was me  Its still A2 but with different cap positions...All my 2020 DR bdie gskill have a different PCB layout compared to 2019 kits (marker "SF" vs. "SE").
> 
> Post 4000 14-15 1T but still trying to stabilize it. Too many RTL combinations.


Hmm I guess mine is a 2019 kit then.
It says SE, but date is Feb 2020.

Still, better than the 2018 kit (which says SD). So I really can't complain. The 2018 kit couldn't even do 15/15/15/36 @ 3733 stable.


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> Someone is saying they are on new PCB's even if the layout is similar to the old sticks but I'm not sure.
> I'm only recalling what someone else said.
> And that the new PCB's don't do as well with 1T command rate but scale better with 2T.
> 
> I managed to uncork this last night with a full 1 cycle pass of TM5 anta777, then a quick 112k prime95 no AVX to make sure the IMC didn't hate me. 16/16/16/36 kept giving Tm5 errors in less than 30 minutes so I loosened tRCD and seems like the IMC doesn't like flat 16's at 4266 (4133 is fine). I had DDR at 1.5v, IO/SA at 1.25/1.30v so I don't know if I can go lower. I like to actually play video games on my computer so I can't run memory tests all day.


I found flat 17's perform the similar to 16-17-17 and the other values tuned easily
My early 2019 2*8GB 4400c19 g.skills are A1 PCB with the larger chips than my other set from later in 2019 which is A2 PCB with smaller chips.
Was that your article on Asus Maximus XII overclocking?
I found it most enlightening :thumb:


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> I found flat 17's perform the similar to 16-17-17 and the other values tuned easily
> My early 2019 2*8GB 4400c19 g.skills are A1 PCB with the larger chips than my other set from later in 2019 which is A2 PCB with smaller chips.
> Was that your article on Asus Maximus XII overclocking?
> I found it most enlightening :thumb:


Yes. I wrote that with some big help from Shamino. But I'm using 2x16 dual ranks.
At least I know (I had to take the RAM out) that they're (feb 2020 sticker) SE PCB while the crappy 2018 (oct 2018) 2x16's are SD PCB.
But man I want that SF PCB now. But not paying another $250 for it. But I want it.

I'd rather save that money for a GTX 3090 Ti or an AMD 6970 XT Nvidia killer Radeon VIII video card.


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> Yes. I wrote that with some big help from Shamino. But I'm using 2x16 dual ranks.
> At least I know (I had to take the RAM out) that they're (feb 2020 sticker) SE PCB while the crappy 2018 (oct 2018) 2x16's are SD PCB.
> But man I want that SF PCB now. But not paying another $250 for it. But I want it.
> 
> I'd rather save that money for a GTX 3090 Ti or an AMD 6970 XT Nvidia killer Radeon VIII video card.


That article solidified my view on over testing the CPU with no real gain and added risk

I was just using those 4400c19 sticks as a manufacturing component and date reference. I'm running the F4-3600C16D-32GTZR sticks.
From all accounts the 3200c14 of the same thing are cheaper and similarly as good


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, that was kinda lucky. A month old Trident-Z Neo 3600 16-16-16-36 B-Die kit just came available locally for 200 bucks. Jumped right on that one lol.


----------



## skullbringer

highly recommend G.Skill 2x16GB 3200c14 :thumb: (this one is from April 2020, rev. b1 pcb)

revisited them today on 4400 C16 2T with newly fitted Bitspower universal dimm2 water block and dang, those modules are flying!

*these geekbench3 total and memory scores are higher than 2x8GB 4700 C17 1T, like what?!*

I have a feeling though, that geekbench memory score also slightly rewards higher memory capacity, but still... 

also "only" needs 1.45 SA


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> highly recommend G.Skill 2x16GB 3200c14 :thumb: (this one is from April 2020, rev. b1 pcb)
> 
> revisited them today on 4400 C16 2T with newly fitted Bitspower universal dimm2 water block and dang, those modules are flying!
> 
> *these geekbench3 total and memory scores are higher than 2x8GB 4700 C17 1T, like what?!*
> 
> I have a feeling though, that geekbench memory score also slightly rewards higher memory capacity, but still...
> 
> also "only" needs 1.45 SA


What does the little marking say on your PCB on the very edge in etched?
it should say something like "SD" or "SE" or "SF". SF is the newest PCB. My Feb 2020 says "SE".

You need 1.45v VCCSA? What happens if you go below 1.45v? You fail TM5 or something?


----------



## skullbringer

Falkentyne said:


> What does the little marking say on your PCB on the very edge in etched?
> it should say something like "SD" or "SE" or "SF". SF is the newest PCB. My Feb 2020 says "SE".
> 
> You need 1.45v VCCSA? What happens if you go below 1.45v? You fail TM5 or something?


nice to know, this April 2020 F4-3200C14D-32GTZN kit says "SF"

yes, below 1.44V SA any kind of memory test like tm5 or gsat instantly spews out errors non stop, +10mV to be safe


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> nice to know, this April 2020 F4-3200C14D-32GTZN kit says "SF"
> 
> yes, below 1.44V SA any kind of memory test like tm5 or gsat instantly spews out errors non stop, +10mV to be safe


Maybe I can attempt to get 16/16/36 working then. When I tried 4266 16/16/16/36 with 1.25v IO 1.30v SA I got errors in like 15 minutes of TM5. I didn't even think about trying higher. I just loosened tRCD to 17 and then it passed 16/17/17/34 1.25v IO 1.30v SA, 1.5 DDRV easily. I just hate yeeting voltages if I don't have to.


----------



## N7+

tXP: 5 PDD: 0


----------



## SunnyStefan

Hey I've got a question regarding memory stress testing with TM5 (Anta777 extreme preset in my case) for the purpose of evaluating system stability.
Should I disable my page file via Windows advanced system settings?
Generally I leave this enabled and set both the min and max value to the same specific size.
Does passing 3 cycles of TM5 mean less if my page file is enabled?


I've been looking back through screenshots in this thread where people show TM5 running, and everyone has their page file enabled.
It's usually set to about 2gb more than their system's total physical memory capacity (ie: for a 2x16gb system, the typical page file size is ~ 34gb).
I know that testing RAM in Windows is sub optimal compared to live booting via USB with linux, but I'm curious how to make the most of my stress testing while operating in a Windows 10 environment.


----------



## skullbringer

SunnyStefan said:


> Hey I've got a question regarding memory stress testing with TM5 (Anta777 extreme preset in my case) for the purpose of evaluating system stability.
> Should I disable my page file via Windows advanced system settings?
> Generally I leave this enabled and set both the min and max value to the same specific size.
> Does passing 3 cycles of TM5 mean less if my page file is enabled?
> 
> 
> I've been looking back through screenshots in this thread where people show TM5 running, and everyone has their page file enabled.
> It's usually set to about 2gb more than their system's total physical memory capacity (ie: for a 2x16gb system, the typical page file size is ~ 34gb).
> I know that testing RAM in Windows is sub optimal compared to live booting via USB with linux, but I'm curious how to make the most of my stress testing while operating in a Windows 10 environment.


testmem5 automatically detects how much actual ram you have left available and scales with that. after testmem5 has started you just should not start any other big apps or the system will start paging. but even then, a cycle is a cycle, meaning all of your ram was tested, even if part of it was the page file and hence it took a lot longer to complete.

tl;dr dont worry, just run tm5 and leave page file enabled


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> Everything hinges on understanding relationship between init rtl and iol offset.
> 
> After that you will know how to set low rtl, low iol, higher iol offset.
> 
> And yes it will be consistent since its set.


btw setting rtl init value made rtl/iol training more consistent, as in either it trains properly like 62-61 3-3, or the system gets stuck on post code 69 (noice!)

could not see any impact from setting iol init value's.

so rtl init value + io latency offset is fairly reliable now, +rep! :thumb:


----------



## robertr1

SunnyStefan said:


> Hey I've got a question regarding memory stress testing with TM5 (Anta777 extreme preset in my case) for the purpose of evaluating system stability.
> Should I disable my page file via Windows advanced system settings?
> Generally I leave this enabled and set both the min and max value to the same specific size.
> Does passing 3 cycles of TM5 mean less if my page file is enabled?
> 
> 
> I've been looking back through screenshots in this thread where people show TM5 running, and everyone has their page file enabled.
> It's usually set to about 2gb more than their system's total physical memory capacity (ie: for a 2x16gb system, the typical page file size is ~ 34gb).
> I know that testing RAM in Windows is sub optimal compared to live booting via USB with linux, but I'm curious how to make the most of my stress testing while operating in a Windows 10 environment.


Let TM5/Extreme do it's thing with settings as you'd normally run windows. The 3 cycles are plenty for me.

I then run 1-2hrs occt large/avx2 to lock it in. Been using this method since late last year and I've ran through every other test out there. For me, passing these two tests proved to be the most credible in a stable OC. 

The occt is important because as your RAM gets faster, it puts more stress and bigger transients on the vrm so you need to retest the cpu in a "spiky" condition to make sure it's stable.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

I’ve been running a stable memory OC for months now. Before then I had been running another OC for several months longer: same settings, but with looser tWTRS/L and tWRRD_dg/sg and lower tREFI.

I remember that my current settings had no errors with like 200-400% pass on memtest hci. But all of a sudden I got a BSOD last night. Completely out of the blue. Haven’t had a BSOD in months.

Ran memtest hci overnight, and got a single error on one thread at 99%. The rest of the threads went to like 1,700% with no errors.

So then I loosened tWTRS/L and tWRRD_dg/sg a bit, ran memtest this morning, got an error at ~370%. When I clicked OK on the memtest error notification, the same thread immediately errored again. I repeated this several times and it gave about 8 errors in a row before I exited memtest. None of the other threads were erroring.

Then I loosened tWTRS/L and tWRRD_dg/sg to my last known stable OC, and lowered tREFI. Ran memtest. This time it errored on a single thread before 100%. When I clicked OK, the same thread again continued to error immediately until I closed memtest.

I’m at a loss. These settings were memtest stable and haven’t given me problems for months. Whenever I’ve had an unstable memory overclock I’ll get bluescreens while watching YouTube videos and crashes during video games. My current settings have been working fine for months with zero issues.

I don’t think it’s voltage degradation. My kit is Samsung B-Die and it’s running at 1.46 VDIMM (hwinfo64 reports 1.44). VCCIO and VCCSA are 1.27/1.26. The memory doesn’t have temp sensors. My 9700k overclock settings are in my sig. Been running that for many months without issue. CPU temps spike to around 77C at most, and voltage spikes to a high of maybe 1.38 due to LLC being normal.

Any ideas why this might be happening?

Possibly temperature related because summertime? I’m thinking of installing the temperature probes that came with my motherboard and putting them on the heatsinks.

Can software issues or file corruption cause memory errors? I updated to Windows 10 2004 a few weeks ago.

Might cleaning the contact points on the memory help? I haven’t removed them since installing them about 11 months ago.

Also, might testing too much memory at once cause errors? Intelligent standby cleaner says I have 13700 free, so I test 13600. When I used to run memtest I would only test about 13200. Is it possible that fluctuations in background task memory use are causing errors in memtest?


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Decided to play around, did not test further)


----------



## opt33

With 2 kits of 2x8 samsung bdie on my GB auros master mobo, for 4000c16 on both I need 1.45 to 1.46 vdimm and 1.30-1.31 vccsa. With 1.27-1.28 vccsa I will get intermittent rounding errors in memtest as well. If you only ran 200-400% memtest originally you may have been barely stable for given temp or not stable. I would try increasing vccsa to 1.3 running memtest again, if it passes then walk vccsa down if want it lower. Also 47 cache might be issue, could try 46 cache.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

The thing is that my old memory settings with slightly looser tertiary timings/lower tREFI ran perfectly fine for months, with the same 5.0 core 4.7 cache. And those settings I definitely ran an overnight memtest.

I may test with looser timings or higher voltages, but I want to make sure that it’s not something stupid like ambient heat or software related issues that are causing false positives. Because I know for a fact that my primary timings, tRFC and tRC have been rock solid stable for around half a year. As have my core OC settings. The only other explanation is chip degradation, and I haven’t been running temperatures or voltages high enough to cause degradation on either my CPU or my ram.


----------



## opt33

even if temp dependent change, sometimes boosting voltage makes it more stable and less temp dependent, not going to figure it out until you try. if doesnt work, then ruled it out.


----------



## skullbringer

KrampusKlaus said:


> The thing is that my old memory settings with slightly looser tertiary timings/lower tREFI ran perfectly fine for months, with the same 5.0 core 4.7 cache. And those settings I definitely ran an overnight memtest.


maybe dust in the dust filters hindering air flow and increasing temps? hard to know ofc without temp sensors, but maybe just duct tape a fan to the dimms and see if that fixes the instability. if yes, then heat is the cause


----------



## KrampusKlaus

Alright. I guess it couldn’t hurt. 2 questions:

1) What is the limit of safe everyday VCCIO/VCCSA for coffee lake?

2) does VCCIO and VCCSA increase memory temps or CPU temps?


----------



## opt33

vccio is likely high enough, 1.35v is considered safe by most for vccsa, others will go higher, mobo default on xmp is usually around 1.33v for both io/sa on GB boards and some others. I would just increase vccsa to 1.30 and leave vccio as is. And putting fan on ram like skullbringer said is good idea for ruling out temp change. For 4000c16 I need 1.30vccsa and use 1.27 vccio. For 4133c16 1.33vccsa (1.32 rare errors after 300% in memtest), 1.28vccio.


----------



## KrampusKlaus

skullbringer said:


> maybe dust in the dust filters hindering air flow and increasing temps? hard to know ofc without temp sensors, but maybe just duct tape a fan to the dimms and see if that fixes the instability. if yes, then heat is the cause


That’s possible. I have a Meshify C with foam mesh behind the metal mesh in the front intake. It has probably accumulated a bit of dust in the last few months. 

My memory sits under a DRP4 tower cooler with the fan speed tied to CPU temps. So it might be that when the CPU is under load the dimms actually stay cooler thAn when they’re at idle because the fans are moving more air from near the dimms. Also, lately, when I game I’ve been popping out the front mesh screen to improve case airflow (drops GPU temps by a few degrees). So that might be why I haven’t gotten any crashes with like 100+ hours of TW3K in the past 2 months.

I’m going to pop out the front filter, point a desk fan at the front of the case, and run memtest again. Probably need to wash/clean the front filter anyways.

Re temp probes, my mobo comes with 2 of them. Where should I insert them to get a good reading on memory temps?


----------



## KrampusKlaus

opt33 said:


> vccio is likely high enough, 1.35v is considered safe by most for vccsa, others will go higher, mobo default on xmp is usually around 1.33v for both io/sa on GB boards and some others. I would just increase vccsa to 1.30 and leave vccio as is. And putting fan on ram like skullbringer said is good idea for ruling out temp change. For 4000c16 I need 1.30vccsa and use 1.27 vccio. For 4133c16 1.33vccsa (1.32 rare errors after 300% in memtest), 1.28vccio.


Thanks. I’ve been considering getting like a small 40mm fan to cool my ram sticks, but they’re underneath my DRP4. Do you think that taping a small fan perpendicular to either of the sides of the memory sticks might help?


----------



## djgar

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Decided to play around, did not test further)


Is that wall paper Ghost in the Shell or Blade Runner? :thumb:


----------



## opt33

KrampusKlaus said:


> Thanks. I’ve been considering getting like a small 40mm fan to cool my ram sticks, but they’re underneath my DRP4. Do you think that taping a small fan perpendicular to either of the sides of the memory sticks might help?


40mm fans move so little air doesnt help much, even if right over ram. I tried 40,60,80,120mm fans on mine and ended up with single 80mm fan at 2000rpms (quiet for 80mm) drops ram temps 3-4C placed right over ram. 40mm did nothing, 60mm 2-3C lower. 120mm at 1000rpms dropped temps ~6C, but doesnt fit well in space I have for it. I also have some air from my top rad fan already hitting ram, so 40/60mm additional fans may have less effect in my system since wasnt adding much to air already. If you have no air on them might help more, but would use at least 60mm or 80mm fan, since side may be less but better than nothing.


----------



## munternet

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Decided to play around, did not test further)


4600c16 is a good effort :thumb:
What is the actual cache clock? It looks different from the aida than the cpuz.
What voltages are you using?
Cheers


----------



## Gregix

Just wanna add something, as for now I have my config set up properly.
So, I sent my old Vegenance LPX 4500c19 to my nephews, then bough them z490 Tomahawk, and 10600k CPU. 
And, my brother in law make just run it few days ago, he set XMP. So, when we started doing OC 2 days after, by Whatsapp, he was sending me screenshots, hwinfo64 and such as. 
Soooo
VCSA was 1,564V
IO was 1,442V

No wonder, when I observe Facebooks PC master race thread, there can be dead CPU find, after like 2-4 months. AMD/Intel alike...


----------



## ViTosS

Gregix said:


> Just wanna add something, as for now I have my config set up properly.
> So, I sent my old Vegenance LPX 4500c19 to my nephews, then bough them z490 Tomahawk, and 10600k CPU.
> And, my brother in law make just run it few days ago, he set XMP. So, when we started doing OC 2 days after, by Whatsapp, he was sending me screenshots, hwinfo64 and such as.
> Soooo
> VCSA was 1,564V
> IO was 1,442V
> 
> No wonder, when I observe Facebooks PC master race thread, there can be dead CPU find, after like 2-4 months. AMD/Intel alike...


My [email protected] XMP sets 1.32 VCCIO , I can actually reduce that to 1.15v stable at [email protected]


----------



## bass junkie xl

32 gb 4133 c17 Anything to Improve ?

hey there just looking to see what else i could do to improve latency / speed .
Asus z-390 Xi code dram tweak mode 1
9900 ks @ 5.0 ghz / 4.7 cache @ 1.23v currently
vcssa @ 1.25v / vccio @ 1.22 v / dram @ 1.45v
32 gb of team group extreme 8gb x4 4133 mhz 18-18-18-38 1.4v default

4266 c17 was stable but 1 out of 40 re boots gives code 55 @ 1.50v .
9900 ks @ 5.0 ghz / 4.7 cache @ 1.23v currently
ran on a clean boot with high priority .

timings on the right hand side of the as rock timings app are auto except for trefi and tcke rest on right hand side is auto .


----------



## KrampusKlaus

opt33 said:


> vccio is likely high enough, 1.35v is considered safe by most for vccsa, others will go higher, mobo default on xmp is usually around 1.33v for both io/sa on GB boards and some others. I would just increase vccsa to 1.30 and leave vccio as is. And putting fan on ram like skullbringer said is good idea for ruling out temp change. For 4000c16 I need 1.30vccsa and use 1.27 vccio. For 4133c16 1.33vccsa (1.32 rare errors after 300% in memtest), 1.28vccio.


Alright. So after I got home, I 
1) installed a temp probe, it’s hanging between the dimms touching one of the heatsinks. It’s not not going to get the actual dimm temps, but it does let me know the changes.
2) bumped up VCCSA. Turns out I had them set to 1.24 SA/1.23 IO. Bumped SA to 1.25. 
3) had memtest only test 13200mb at once.

Booted up my original tight settings that BSOD’d the other day. Probe read 30C between the dimms. Started up memtest. Probe temps started climbing to 34C. Popped out the front and washed it. Removed the top magnetic vent cover. Probe temps almost immediately dropped to 31C, stabilized at 32C. So, yeah. The front mesh cover makes a big difference in memory temps.

Continued running memtest while making dinner and watching Korra. 890% passed so far with zero errors.

So, I think you were right. Maybe it needed a teeny bit more system agent voltage to be stable at warmer temperatures. Or maybe voltage was fine and it was just the temps. Probably going to invest in some better intake fans, and need to clean the filter regularly. I’m just glad that it stopped ******* erroring out of the blue.


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

djgar said:


> Is that wall paper Ghost in the Shell or Blade Runner? :thumb:


This is a random image from the Internet, if I'm not mistaken on the subject of CyberPunk


munternet said:


> 4600c16 is a good effort :thumb:
> What is the actual cache clock? It looks different from the aida than the cpuz.
> What voltages are you using?
> Cheers


Hi. My power supply is "balanced mode", so the frequency is dynamic. I was just redoing the aida result yesterday because of the cache showing 5.3 and the kernel showing 4.4
IO 1.325v
SA 1.400v
Dram 1.65-1.66(I don't remember exactly)


----------



## skullbringer

bass junkie xl said:


> 32 gb 4133 c17 Anything to Improve ?
> 
> hey there just looking to see what else i could do to improve latency / speed .
> Asus z-390 Xi code dram tweak mode 1
> 9900 ks @ 5.0 ghz / 4.7 cache @ 1.23v currently
> vcssa @ 1.25v / vccio @ 1.22 v / dram @ 1.45v
> 32 gb of team group extreme 8gb x4 4133 mhz 18-18-18-38 1.4v default
> 
> 4266 c17 was stable but 1 out of 40 re boots gives code 55 @ 1.50v .
> 9900 ks @ 5.0 ghz / 4.7 cache @ 1.23v currently
> ran on a clean boot with high priority .
> 
> timings on the right hand side of the as rock timings app are auto except for trefi and tcke rest on right hand side is auto .


how is your stability looking atm, have you ran any stress tests so far?

a bit more vccsa might help your intermittent 55 post failures, like 1.275V

you might be able to tighten up some of the tertiaries, which gives a nice bandwidth boost, like tRDRD_sg to 6, tRDRD_dr to 6, tRDWR_* all to 14, tWRRD_dr, _dd to 7, tWRWR_dr, _dd to 7 

test all these 1 by 1 and see if it is stable before trying the next one

once you have all the timings as tight as possible, you can try tightening RTLs/IO-Ls, which should give you a nice latency reduction. depending on your board you can either try lowering them manually or use IO Latency Offset. This is all just trial and error, seeing how the RTLs/IO-Ls changed after training, lower is always better. If they train, they are stable, they have no effect on stability.

nice hwinfo layout btw, lowkey digging it :thumb:


----------



## N7+

bass junkie xl said:


> 32 gb 4133 c17 Anything to Improve ?
> 
> hey there just looking to see what else i could do to improve latency / speed .
> Asus z-390 Xi code dram tweak mode 1
> 9900 ks @ 5.0 ghz / 4.7 cache @ 1.23v currently
> vcssa @ 1.25v / vccio @ 1.22 v / dram @ 1.45v
> 32 gb of team group extreme 8gb x4 4133 mhz 18-18-18-38 1.4v default
> 
> 4266 c17 was stable but 1 out of 40 re boots gives code 55 @ 1.50v .
> 9900 ks @ 5.0 ghz / 4.7 cache @ 1.23v currently
> ran on a clean boot with high priority .
> 
> timings on the right hand side of the as rock timings app are auto except for trefi and tcke rest on right hand side is auto .


Use MRC fast boot and lock in your RTL/IOLs! That should solve it. (MRC fast boot might not even be needed) You may want to give a bit of extra boot voltage to the memory, vccsa and vccio too. Those could help as well. Try experimenting with the IOL offset! Those should go much tighter.


----------



## robertr1

Voltages:
CPU 52/48 frequency. Vcore 1.34 LLC6 (10mv extra as overhead)
DRAM = 1.53v (10mv extra as overhead)
vccio = 1.25v (not tuned to lowest)
sa = 1.3v (not tuned to lowest) 
ppd = 0
txp = 7 (default)

stability tests:
- 3 cycles of TM5/Extreme
- 2 hours of OCCT large/avx2
- Added 10mv on dram and vcore after finding their min stable voltages as headroom

The screenshot is 53x 49x to see if could get into the 32's but daily at 52/48 is 33.3 - 33.5ns 

I'll work on bringing down io/sa as I just used safe settings to get it stable for now.


----------



## eeeven

How can u set PPD 0 with XI Apex? I didnt manage to get it working...


----------



## skullbringer

eeeven said:


> How can u set PPD 0 with XI Apex? I didnt manage to get it working...


is it available in XI Apex bios? XII series boards only got it in latest dev bios update.

if it's not exposed in bios, you can only change it in os with memtweakit v2.02.48 works with XII series, not sure if also with XI


----------



## robertr1

eeeven said:


> How can u set PPD 0 with XI Apex? I didnt manage to get it working...


You need to enable realtime memtraining in bios first. 

Then use memtweakit to change it in within the OS. It doesn't stay so if you reboot, you need to do it again.


----------



## eeeven

robertr1 said:


> You need to enable realtime memtraining in bios first.
> 
> Then use memtweakit to change it in within the OS. It doesn't stay so if you reboot, you need to do it again.


Ty a Lot!


----------



## reachthesky

Which memory configuration would you use as a daily driver for powering 1080p/240hz and why? both are hci stable and i'm unsure which configuration to use.

5.25ghz 8c/8t 1.38v
3933mhz 15-14-14-30-2T 1.50v 1.3v sa/io
35.0ns latency
61.5k reads
61.5k writes
59k copy

Or

5.25ghz 8c/8t 1.38v
4133mhz 15-15-15-32-2T 1.55v 1.3v sa/io
36.0ns latency
63.5k reads
64.5k writes
61k copy


----------



## Gregix

4133
If u have airflow for cooling this ram at that speed/voltage, I would go for 4133. Lots of games prefers more bandwidth and 1ns latency...meh.


----------



## reachthesky

Gregix said:


> 4133
> If u have airflow for cooling this ram at that speed/voltage, I would go for 4133. Lots of games prefers more bandwidth and 1ns latency...meh.



hmmmm I will try to get 35.0ns stable on 4133 then. I hate this 36.0ns stuff, it's ugly.


----------



## N7+

tXP: 4 Power Down State Disabled


----------



## reachthesky

tXP @ 4 is bad for gaming. 6 is the sweetspot where you won't stutter or drop 1% lows. You might be able to get away with [email protected] [email protected] can pass memtests but is only benchworthy because of issues it causes in games.


----------



## reachthesky

Gregix said:


> 4133
> If u have airflow for cooling this ram at that speed/voltage, I would go for 4133. Lots of games prefers more bandwidth and 1ns latency...meh.



I decided I will stay with 3933mhz @[email protected]
latency is king
I would need better dimms to get 35.0ns @ 4133/4200 on this board at reasonable volts for daily use. I don't know that gskill cl17/4266 bin or gskill c15/4000 bin would cut the mustard or not. Gskill cl17/4266 bin is 66mhz better than my ram(c7-4000) at the same volts/timings. Gskill c15/4000 seems 66mhz ahead as well. yawn maybe I am really finished overclocking with this hardware.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reachthesky said:


> tXP @ 4 is bad for gaming. 6 is the sweetspot where you won't stutter or drop 1% lows. You might be able to get away with [email protected] [email protected] can pass memtests but is only benchworthy because of issues it causes in games.


No problem with tXP=4 in pubg and theHunter. Micron 2*16GB running at 4700 18-23-40.


----------



## reachthesky

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> No problem with tXP=4 in pubg and theHunter. Micron 2*16GB running at 4700 18-23-40.



ran txp @ 4 in starcraft 2 and in modernwarfare 2. Starcraft 2 didn't see any stutters but saw worse 1% lows. Modernwarfare 2 saw worse 1% lows and stutters. After increasing txp to 6, both games saw improvements in 1% lows compared to auto values for my kit(txp 8) and no stutters. 



On a side note, what are you doing running micron on an apex xii?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reachthesky said:


> ran txp @ 4 in starcraft 2 and in modernwarfare 2. Starcraft 2 didn't see any stutters but saw worse 1% lows. Modernwarfare 2 saw worse 1% lows and stutters. After increasing txp to 6, both games saw improvements in 1% lows compared to auto values for my kit(txp 8) and no stutters.
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note, what are you doing running micron on an apex xii?


Have you passed TM5 ollie or Anta777 Ex?

Micron is the only 2*16GB that can reach 5000.


----------



## N7+

reachthesky said:


> tXP @ 4 is bad for gaming. 6 is the sweetspot where you won't stutter or drop 1% lows. You might be able to get away with [email protected] [email protected] can pass memtests but is only benchworthy because of issues it causes in games.


You're right. tXP 4 in particular has a lot of dropped frames in the frametime graph. tXP 5 clears it up mostly but tXP 6 really is the sweetspot.


----------



## N7+

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Have you passed TM5 ollie or Anta777 Ex?
> 
> Micron is the only 2*16GB that can reach 5000.


You might be reaching 5000 but with that high tRFC your frametime performance will be inferior to B-die.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

N7+ said:


> You might be reaching 5000 but with that high tRFC your frametime performance will be inferior to B-die.


We're here talking about frequencies...

I also got DR bdie so I know the performance. But thanks for the info btw


----------



## N7+

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> We're here talking about frequencies...
> 
> I also got DR bdie so I know the performance. But thanks for the info btw


No need to be offended. It's a fact that tRFC improves 0.1% frametimes greatly. In other words it drives up your absolute minimums. I wouldn't game on anything but tuned B-die.

What dram voltage is that 4400c16 running at?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

N7+ said:


> No need to be offended. It's a fact that tRFC improves 0.1% frametimes greatly. In other words it drives up your absolute minimums. I wouldn't game on anything but tuned B-die.
> 
> What dram voltage is that 4400c16 running at?


AIDA cannot check the real performance. Use MLC if you really want to look into it.

It was running at 1.58V VDIMM


----------



## reachthesky

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Have you passed TM5 ollie or Anta777 Ex?
> 
> Micron is the only 2*16GB that can reach 5000.



yeah passed 8 hours hci and passed 3 cycles(2.5 hours) of tm5 extreme. Also ran aida fpu avx enabled. Didn't realize those were 16gb sticks, GREAT RESULT .


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reachthesky said:


> yeah passed 8 hours hci and passed 3 cycles(2.5 hours) of tm5 extreme. Also ran aida fpu avx enabled. Didn't realize those were 16gb sticks, GREAT RESULT .


thx

then could be temp that causes the instability. tXP=4 degrades the dimm signal more than tXP=5.

In my experience, unstable memory can cause lags in games. If the sticks are fully stable, there should be no lags, even running at a slower speed.


----------



## reachthesky

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> thx
> 
> then could be temp that causes the instability. tXP=4 degrades the dimm signal more than tXP=5.
> 
> In my experience, unstable memory can cause lags in games. If the sticks are fully stable, there should be no lags, even running at a slower speed.



ram temps are in check. maybe raising llc and lowering offset would help? right now with txp @6 i only get lags if i play through a vpn. What are your thoughts on using the "low latency mode" in nvidia control panel?


----------



## satinghostrider

reachthesky said:


> OLDFATSHEEP said:
> 
> 
> 
> thx
> 
> then could be temp that causes the instability. tXP=4 degrades the dimm signal more than tXP=5.
> 
> In my experience, unstable memory can cause lags in games. If the sticks are fully stable, there should be no lags, even running at a slower speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ram temps are in check. maybe raising llc and lowering offset would help? right now with txp @6 i only get lags if i play through a vpn. What are your thoughts on using the "low latency mode" in nvidia control panel?
Click to expand...

Low Latency mode is the new term used for what was previously known as Max Pre-rendered frames. Basically if you have a G-sync monitor and set it up the right way, this option should be set to on. If you set it to Ultra, it will be set to minus 4 from your refresh rate. But if you set it correctly to G-Sync On, V-Sync On and limit your FPS manually to minus 3, then Low Latency mode should be set to On. Hope this helps.


----------



## skullbringer

N7+ said:


> You're right. tXP 4 in particular has a lot of dropped frames in the frametime graph. tXP 5 clears it up mostly but tXP 6 really is the sweetspot.


you have PPD 0, right? then tXP should have no impact.

ppd is power down on or off, tXP is time to exit power down. when there is no power down, timing for exiting power down is futile.


----------



## Betroz

satinghostrider said:


> But if you set it correctly to G-Sync On, V-Sync On and limit your FPS manually to minus 3, then Low Latency mode should be set to On. Hope this helps.


If you care about low latency in games, V-Sync should be OFF....


----------



## robertr1

I should warn people from having corrupted an OS. If your'e going to run PPD 0, make sure you're not running adaptive voltage with all the power savings (speedstep/speedshift/cstates) enabled. The drop in voltage on the cpu while the ram is running full tilt will at first cause blue screens when left idle for long periods of time but then full on OS corruption. This is on z390. Maybe Z490 handles it better.


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah this shows how bad my IMC really is lol.

It just falls flat on it's face trying to boot anything over 3900Mhz with 2x16GB DR B-Die Trident-Z Neo's 

I tried as high as 1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.60v DRAM and still nothing on 4000 on 19-19-19-39-2T. Just overclocking failed POST.

However. It does do fine so far at 3600 16-16-16-36-1T cmand rate on 1.45v DRAM 1.30v SA 1.25v IO so.. we'll start there 

3900 17-17-17-34-2T boots fine as well on low voltages just not 4000 or anything above that lol.

EDIT: Memtesting with HCI and memtesthelper now on 28GB usage at 3600-14-14-14-35-400-1T now @ 1.500v DRAM 1.30v SA 1.25v IO and so far so good, no wierdness in the first full 100% pass. Still too early to call but it looks great. Secondary and tertiary are still on Auto as is RTL/IO so it's running like. 24 tWR 16 tCWL, 44 tFAW and default tREFI with 60/62/13/14 RTL/IO but this is just to see if they'll do straight 14's on 3600 1T. I tried 13 CL but that won't even pass Windows boot under 1.58v so not going there haha.

Is 3600 14 1T generally faster then say, 3900 16 2T?

They do get quite warm even with a 140mm on them tho. At 1.500v they sit around 43-44c DIMM temps in stress.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

reachthesky said:


> ram temps are in check. maybe raising llc and lowering offset would help? right now with txp @6 i only get lags if i play through a vpn. What are your thoughts on using the "low latency mode" in nvidia control panel?


Never tried this "low latency mode"...I think the previous dude explained well

Maybe just use a fixed vcore mode, for a better voltage control. Offset volt mode sometimes lead to too low voltage under light load.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah this shows how bad my IMC really is lol.
> 
> It just falls flat on it's face trying to boot anything over 3900Mhz with 2x16GB DR B-Die Trident-Z Neo's
> 
> I tried as high as 1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.60v DRAM and still nothing on 4000 on 19-19-19-39-2T. Just overclocking failed POST.
> 
> However. It does do fine so far at 3600 16-16-16-36-1T cmand rate on 1.45v DRAM 1.30v SA 1.25v IO so.. we'll start there
> 
> 3900 17-17-17-34-2T boots fine as well on low voltages just not 4000 or anything above that lol.
> 
> EDIT: Memtesting with HCI and memtesthelper now on 28GB usage at 3600-14-14-14-35-400-1T now @ 1.500v DRAM 1.30v SA 1.25v IO and so far so good, no wierdness in the first full 100% pass. Still too early to call but it looks great. Secondary and tertiary are still on Auto as is RTL/IO so it's running like. 24 tWR 16 tCWL, 44 tFAW and default tREFI with 60/62/13/14 RTL/IO but this is just to see if they'll do straight 14's on 3600 1T. I tried 13 CL but that won't even pass Windows boot under 1.58v so not going there haha.
> 
> Is 3600 14 1T generally faster then say, 3900 16 2T?
> 
> They do get quite warm even with a 140mm on them tho. At 1.500v they sit around 43-44c DIMM temps in stress.


Try ODT 80/40/40 and tweak mode 2. tRDRD_DR should be 6 or less. 4400 should be easy on a 2-dimm board.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> you have PPD 0, right? then tXP should have no impact.
> 
> ppd is power down on or off, tXP is time to exit power down. when there is no power down, timing for exiting power down is futile.


Yeah, when ppd=0, change tXP won't affect the idle latency benchmark. Checked this in AIDA and MLC, tXP=8 or 4 no difference when ppd=0.

But a wired thing is, if you set tXP=4 in bios, some frequencies cannot boot normally. I guess maybe it affects the training of other timings.

Besides, when ppd=0, tCKE should have no effects. But change tCKE gives a boost in the stream-triad benchmark in MLC when ppd=0.


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try ODT 80/40/40 and tweak mode 2. tRDRD_DR should be 6 or less. 4400 should be easy on a 2-dimm board.


This is a 4 DIMM MSI Z390 board though. 

It had enough issues getting above 4200 with 2 8GB SR DIMM's and it really doesn't like these DR DIMM's. Plus, My 9900K is a P0 stepping very early production model with a pretty weak IMC all together so yeah.

I am happy to see it run 3600 14-14-14-1T so easily tho.


----------



## satinghostrider

Betroz said:


> satinghostrider said:
> 
> 
> 
> But if you set it correctly to G-Sync On, V-Sync On and limit your FPS manually to minus 3, then Low Latency mode should be set to On. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> If you care about low latency in games, V-Sync should be OFF....
Click to expand...

V-Sync off in games but in Nvidia control panel it should be set to on together with G-Sync on. Frame limit minus 3 from your refresh rate. Blurbusters has an article on this and this is the best setup for those with a G-Sync / G-Sync compatible monitor.


----------



## Betroz

satinghostrider said:


> V-Sync off in games but in Nvidia control panel it should be set to on together with G-Sync on. Frame limit minus 3 from your refresh rate. Blurbusters has an article on this and this is the best setup for those with a G-Sync / G-Sync compatible monitor.


Well duhh If you force V-Sync On in Nvidia controlpanel, it doesn't matter what you set in a game. You do whatever is best for you, I am keeping V-Sync OFF


----------



## Imprezzion

Meh, all I get is errors after a short while. Memory overclocking is a lengthy time consuming business.. 

So far I got really close to making 3900 14-14-14-34-390-2T work but it needed 1.552v for the DRAM voltage to not error immediatly and even with that much voltage it errored after like 180% HCI. 
I'm trying a little less aggresive 3800 14-15-15-34-340-2T now on the same 1.552v. tRDRD_DR at 6 does make quite a massive difference in AIDA for example so I would really like to keep it there but it REALLY isn't liking it..

So far all I know is 3600 14-14-14-34-350-1T will be most likely stable with just Auto subtimings but it isn't very fast lol. Can't do tRDRD_DR 6 on 1T so stuck on 7 there and it barely gets 55GB/s R/W and 42ns latency which is... not good.  

I still have no idea why my CPU and/or board refuses to boot ANYTHING at or over 4000Mhz with 2x16GB DR in slot 2-4. I might try switching slots to 1-3 as well lol. Maybe it'll help. Even with like, 4000 19-22-22-39-634-2T 1.55v it will not POST at all..


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Meh, all I get is errors after a short while. Memory overclocking is a lengthy time consuming business..
> 
> So far I got really close to making 3900 14-14-14-34-390-2T work but it needed 1.552v for the DRAM voltage to not error immediatly and even with that much voltage it errored after like 180% HCI.
> I'm trying a little less aggresive 3800 14-15-15-34-340-2T now on the same 1.552v. tRDRD_DR at 6 does make quite a massive difference in AIDA for example so I would really like to keep it there but it REALLY isn't liking it..
> 
> So far all I know is 3600 14-14-14-34-350-1T will be most likely stable with just Auto subtimings but it isn't very fast lol. Can't do tRDRD_DR 6 on 1T so stuck on 7 there and it barely gets 55GB/s R/W and 42ns latency which is... not good.
> 
> I still have no idea why my CPU and/or board refuses to boot ANYTHING at or over 4000Mhz with 2x16GB DR in slot 2-4. I might try switching slots to 1-3 as well lol. Maybe it'll help. Even with like, 4000 19-22-22-39-634-2T 1.55v it will not POST at all..


Asus Apex is the cure. Apex boots pretty much everything


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Asus Apex is the cure. Apex boots pretty much everything


Just remember to add some salt


----------



## Imprezzion

Nizzen said:


> Asus Apex is the cure. Apex boots pretty much everything


I know, and I should, but I really don't feel like switching my whole MSI Mystic Sync RGB setup over to ASUS Aura and I love this board to death except for the RAM OC. Then again, how much is to blame on the board and how much is just my bad P0 9900K IMC. Plus, when the 11xxx CPU's hit I'll change to whatever socket they go on anyway.

I did just do 3800 14-15-15-34-340-2T @ 1.552v 1.35 SA 1.30 IO for 250% HCI as a quick test as well as some COD Warzone and Black Desert at the same time with 40 tabs of chrome open and it held up fine, no errors, crashes or WHEA errors so I'll go for a longer test. It seems to like this OC.

I'm going to try to either tighten the timings a bit further or drop voltages a bit to like, 1,50 DRAM 1.30 SA 1.25 IO or something.


----------



## aj_hix36

Gen. said:


> @aj_hix36
> tWTR_S=3
> tWTR_L=6
> tRTP=6
> RTL Init=63 (fot CL=14)
> IOL=6/6
> RTL=53/55
> Offset=21/21
> RDRD_sg=6
> RDRD_dg=4
> RDRD_dr=6
> RDRD_dd=1
> WRWR_sg=6
> WRWR_dg=4
> WRWR_dr=7
> WRWR_dd=1
> RDWR_sg=12
> RDWR_dg=12
> RDWR_dr=12
> RDWR_dd=1
> WRRD_sg=24
> WRRD_dg=21
> WRRD_dr=6 or 5
> WRRD_dd=1
> 
> First stabilize these settings, then try 13-13-13-28 or 12-12-12-28, tRFC at the very end, about 240 will be +-


You sir, are a genius. Is it safe to say this is considered stable? Latency is a little higher but I assume that is due to my IOL being 6/6 instead of 2/2. Should I use the exact same timings for 13-13-13-28 or do I need to change something? (I assume in the very least I need to set RTL Init to 61?)


----------



## reachthesky

Hi
I was working on c17 4500 earlier. What is maximum safe dmi voltage?


----------



## warbucks

Betroz said:


> Well duhh If you force V-Sync On in Nvidia controlpanel, it doesn't matter what you set in a game. You do whatever is best for you, I am keeping V-Sync OFF


I don't think you understand how G-sync works. I suggest you read the following guide, specifically the "optimal settings" section.

https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14/


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, i slapped the RTL/IO back to where they should be, mid 50's not high 60's and did some work on the tertiary timings. Kinda happy with this as a start. At least it survived the first full 32GB pass lol. 
AIDA is lookin' real good as well at 38.5ns and 58GB/s RW instead of the Auto subtimings & RTL/IO 42.6ns and 54GB/s.

Now to find some more things to tweak. I haven't really done many of the tertiary's yet and tWR, tRTP and tCWL are pretty loose still tho. 


The DIMM's are still pretty toasty at 46c average but seem to handle it so far. I might be able to drop DRAM voltage quite a bit as I just went high to start with to see what i could get away with on these chips as far as frequency / temperatures go so..


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> I know, and I should, but I really don't feel like switching my whole MSI Mystic Sync RGB setup over to ASUS Aura and I love this board to death except for the RAM OC. Then again, how much is to blame on the board and how much is just my bad P0 9900K IMC. Plus, when the 11xxx CPU's hit I'll change to whatever socket they go on anyway.
> 
> I did just do 3800 14-15-15-34-340-2T @ 1.552v 1.35 SA 1.30 IO for 250% HCI as a quick test as well as some COD Warzone and Black Desert at the same time with 40 tabs of chrome open and it held up fine, no errors, crashes or WHEA errors so I'll go for a longer test. It seems to like this OC.
> 
> I'm going to try to either tighten the timings a bit further or drop voltages a bit to like, 1,50 DRAM 1.30 SA 1.25 IO or something.


On Z490 you will be able to do 4266 mhz at those timings.

Your Z390 board is what is stopping 4000 mhz+ from working on dual rank.
I had the same problem on my Z390 Aorus Master. 17/17/17/39 @ 3733 would boot loop forever but eventually POST, but anything higher would boot loop. Even 3733 at LOOSER timings than 17/17/17/39 would also boot loop.


----------



## SunnyStefan

warbucks said:


> I don't think you understand how G-sync works. I suggest you read the following guide, specifically the "optimal settings" section.
> 
> https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14/


This is getting a little bit off-topic, but considering how many misconceptions there are surrounding G-Sync I'd like to weigh in. This article is on the money and should be considered the go-to reference anytime someone is curious about how to properly configure G-Sync.


----------



## cstkl1

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...GBDDR4-4400MHz-CL16-19-19-39-1.50V16GB-(2x8GB)

new kit out. price was quite decent

weird timings.. are these micron??


----------



## reachthesky

is it better to have tcwl 12 and twr_l/s @ 14/10 with twpre 28 or is it better to have tcwl 14, twr_l/s @ 12/8 with twpre 30?


also, anyone have anyidea why realbench doesn't work? Getting open CL error or something like that when I try to run open cl bench or stress test.


----------



## bass junkie xl

Wonder how much better those g.skill trident z RGB 4400 c 16 19 19 19 are vs 4400 19 19 19 39 vipers


----------



## rikidikibombom

Hi. Judging by the title, I guess this is the right place to ask this(if not let me know?): 



I have 2 DIMM sticks of 16GB each of G.Skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZ and they work ok(stable system, memtest) in XMP (DDR4-3200) on Asus Prime Z370-A motherboard with CPU Intel i7-8700K, in dual channel, apparently at the auto-set by BIOS voltage of 1.3560V (it won't let me put 1.3500V btw, iirc).



However, if I add 2 more sticks, so now it's 4x sticks of 16GB each (of the same type memory), it won't cold boot, unless I manually set that voltage to 1.4V, or even better put "Auto" which sets it to 1.506V (which is odd that the DIMM temperatures don't seem affected, compared to 1.3560V). Then it boots from a cold boot. But then if I go into BIOS via a warm boot (ie. Windows->Restart) and set it to 1.3560V, it keeps working fine through any amount of warm boots, and memtest86+ tests pass. But then if I shutdown and thus cold boot, it's not starting up(with this 1.3560V now), and after a while(or rather, after I power it down via 4 sec button hold, once or twice) it boots in 2133Mhz mode "due to system instability" and suggests that I enter BIOS. 

If I set 1.4V or so, it still cold boots but only after like 15 seconds extra of black screen before POST where on the motherboard I see yellow led most of the time(and non-blinking) followed by one blink of red led, seeing this loop a couple of times or so, presumably Memory Training attempts, and then it POSTs and works normally at 3200 with all 4 sticks; but with 1.3560V it almost never cold boots(yellow led full time) and I have to power it off once or twice(via 4 sec holding power button) to get me that 2133Mhz fallback so I can enter BIOS. 



If I do "Auto" aka 1.506V it cold boots instantly (iirc, but I should recheck). 



If I disable all Memory Training algorithms in BIOS, then it never cold boots(I think red led full time) until I clear CMOS via jumper (not even MemOK button saves me - which is supposed to run Memory Training for me, but I guess since they're disabled in BIOS it won't, i dno). I don't currently remember if I've had this at 1.4V or 1.3560V when all these were disabled... I'm thinking the former. I can retry however.



This RAM is in QVL list for this mobo but only listed as 2 DIMMs, so either they didn't try 1 or 4, or it means 4 doesn't work, in XMP at least, beacause in 2133Mhz it's all fine and dandy (it's just slower than it could be). The CPU clearly supports two dual-channels (as per the ark specifications)



So, the question is, what's the problem here? Do I need a permanently increased voltage? but then why does it still work when warm booting with just 1.3560V ?
Do I need some wicked BIOS settings about Memory Training ? clearly it's only doing MT during cold boot, not warm boot, otherwise it would fail when I set the 1.3560V in warm boots too.


How can I use this memory in 4 DIMMs (two dual-channels) with XMP profile?


ANY ideas, appreciated. I can try them now, PC is nearby.



PS: I come with very noobish understanding, I barely know what CAS is, don't really understand anything else tbh(I know the info is in OP though), so don't assume I know my shie I'm rather noobish here.


----------



## cstkl1

bass junkie xl said:


> Wonder how much better those g.skill trident z RGB 4400 c 16 19 19 19 are vs 4400 19 19 19 39 vipers


good bdies do [email protected] 

btw gskill said confidential. they are not stating these are bdies or micron..


----------



## cstkl1

reachthesky said:


> is it better to have tcwl 12 and twr_l/s @ 14/10 with twpre 28 or is it better to have tcwl 14, twr_l/s @ 12/8 with twpre 30?
> 
> 
> also, anyone have anyidea why realbench doesn't work? Getting open CL error or something like that when I try to run open cl bench or stress test.


guessing no gpu driver install. just ignore it and leave that warning thingy popup to the side.


----------



## cstkl1

bass junkie xl said:


> Wonder how much better those g.skill trident z RGB 4400 c 16 19 19 19 are vs 4400 19 19 19 39 vipers


da patriots are garbage.. you are hoping for random luck ..


----------



## cstkl1

rikidikibombom said:


> Hi. Judging by the title, I guess this is the right place to ask this(if not let me know?):
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 DIMM sticks of 16GB each of G.Skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZ and they work ok(stable system, memtest) in XMP (DDR4-3200) on Asus Prime Z370-A motherboard with CPU Intel i7-8700K, in dual channel, apparently at the auto-set by BIOS voltage of 1.3560V (it won't let me put 1.3500V btw, iirc).
> 
> 
> 
> However, if I add 2 more sticks, so now it's 4x sticks of 16GB each (of the same type memory), it won't cold boot, unless I manually set that voltage to 1.4V, or even better put "Auto" which sets it to 1.506V (which is odd that the DIMM temperatures don't seem affected, compared to 1.3560V). Then it boots from a cold boot. But then if I go into BIOS via a warm boot (ie. Windows->Restart) and set it to 1.3560V, it keeps working fine through any amount of warm boots, and memtest86+ tests pass. But then if I shutdown and thus cold boot, it's not starting up(with this 1.3560V now), and after a while(or rather, after I power it down via 4 sec button hold, once or twice) it boots in 2133Mhz mode "due to system instability" and suggests that I enter BIOS.
> 
> If I set 1.4V or so, it still cold boots but only after like 15 seconds extra of black screen before POST where on the motherboard I see yellow led most of the time(and non-blinking) followed by one blink of red led, seeing this loop a couple of times or so, presumably Memory Training attempts, and then it POSTs and works normally at 3200 with all 4 sticks; but with 1.3560V it almost never cold boots(yellow led full time) and I have to power it off once or twice(via 4 sec holding power button) to get me that 2133Mhz fallback so I can enter BIOS.
> 
> 
> 
> If I do "Auto" aka 1.506V it cold boots instantly (iirc, but I should recheck).
> 
> 
> 
> If I disable all Memory Training algorithms in BIOS, then it never cold boots(I think red led full time) until I clear CMOS via jumper (not even MemOK button saves me - which is supposed to run Memory Training for me, but I guess since they're disabled in BIOS it won't, i dno). I don't currently remember if I've had this at 1.4V or 1.3560V when all these were disabled... I'm thinking the former. I can retry however.
> 
> 
> 
> This RAM is in QVL list for this mobo but only listed as 2 DIMMs, so either they didn't try 1 or 4, or it means 4 doesn't work, in XMP at least, beacause in 2133Mhz it's all fine and dandy (it's just slower than it could be). The CPU clearly supports two dual-channels (as per the ark specifications)
> 
> 
> 
> So, the question is, what's the problem here? Do I need a permanently increased voltage? but then why does it still work when warm booting with just 1.3560V ?
> Do I need some wicked BIOS settings about Memory Training ? clearly it's only doing MT during cold boot, not warm boot, otherwise it would fail when I set the 1.3560V in warm boots too.
> 
> 
> How can I use this memory in 4 DIMMs (two dual-channels) with XMP profile?
> 
> 
> ANY ideas, appreciated. I can try them now, PC is nearby.
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I come with very noobish understanding, I barely know what CAS is, don't really understand anything else tbh(I know the info is in OP though), so don't assume I know my shie I'm rather noobish here.


before you go further u better check those two separate kits are the same pcb type A1/A2..


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bass junkie xl said:


> Wonder how much better those g.skill trident z RGB 4400 c 16 19 19 19 are vs 4400 19 19 19 39 vipers


I got Vipers bc Buildzoid recommended them. They are b die. I can do 4266 16-16-16 1.5v on 4 dimms, 4700 on 2 dimms. They don’t have RGB though or a temp sensor.


----------



## bass junkie xl

So before I had my 32gb ( 8gb x 4 ) @ 4133 17-17-17-37-2t @ 1.45v slightly tuned 62k / 63.5 k /59.5 k / 39.1 NS in Adia 64 . 

I know have 17-17-17-34 @ 4133 1.45v
But tcke down to 4. Turned ppd = 8 to 6 then txp = 1 to = 0 
5.1/ 4.8 cache on my 9900 ks and now 
Doing same speed in Adia as above 
But 35.5 NS high priority apps closed down in windows. 

I ran HCI mem test 12 hrs 1000% 
And ran tm5 for 3 cycles 3.5 hrs . 

Is 39.1 NS vs 35.5 NS same speed on both ok for 32 GB 4133 or should I tweak more ?


----------



## reachthesky

bass junkie xl said:


> So before I had my 32gb ( 8gb x 4 ) @ 4133 17-17-17-37-2t @ 1.45v slightly tuned 62k / 63.5 k /59.5 k / 39.1 NS in Adia 64 .
> 
> I know have 17-17-17-34 @ 4133 1.45v
> But tcke down to 4. Turned ppd = 8 to 6 then txp = 1 to = 0
> 5.1/ 4.8 cache on my 9900 ks and now
> Doing same speed in Adia as above
> But 35.5 NS high priority apps closed down in windows.
> 
> I ran HCI mem test 12 hrs 1000%
> And ran tm5 for 3 cycles 3.5 hrs .
> 
> Is 39.1 NS vs 35.5 NS same speed on both ok for 32 GB 4133 or should I tweak more ?



Try playing some games with tXP @ 1 . 6 is the number you want. 5 and below drops minimums.
Just buy a good gskill kit, don't fuss around with budget dimms, Gskill is the best in the business no contest .


----------



## reachthesky

Does anyone know of a good way to fight off all the malware on this website? Everytime I come here, **** gets installed on my computer without my consent.


----------



## bass junkie xl

reachthesky said:


> bass junkie xl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So before I had my 32gb ( 8gb x 4 ) @ 4133 17-17-17-37-2t @ 1.45v slightly tuned 62k / 63.5 k /59.5 k / 39.1 NS in Adia 64 .
> 
> I know have 17-17-17-34 @ 4133 1.45v
> But tcke down to 4. Turned ppd = 8 to 6 then txp = 1 to = 0
> 5.1/ 4.8 cache on my 9900 ks and now
> Doing same speed in Adia as above
> But 35.5 NS high priority apps closed down in windows.
> 
> I ran HCI mem test 12 hrs 1000%
> And ran tm5 for 3 cycles 3.5 hrs .
> 
> Is 39.1 NS vs 35.5 NS same speed on both ok for 32 GB 4133 or should I tweak more ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try playing some games with tXP @ 1 /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif. 6 is the number you want. 5 and below drops minimums.
> Just buy a good gskill kit, don't fuss around with budget dimms, Gskill is the best in the business no contest /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif.
Click to expand...

I'm on txp 6 I read about 5 and 4 being worse on mins. I shut off sleep and all c states in bios I heard c states and txp and ppd don't play well .


----------



## rikidikibombom

cstkl1 said:


> before you go further u better check those two separate kits are the same pcb type A1/A2..


I'm not sure, the capacitors/components right near and all along the pins look the same, arranged the same, even though the kits are 2 years apart. Taiphoon reports only the thermal sensor to be different company.

So, I tried something: I loaded optimized defaults in BIOS which put the RAM at 2133Mhz aka the safe fallback. I notice the cold boot is only 3 seconds delayed with black screen with yellow led before the POST, presumably this is the norm.

Then I selected XMP, save and exit, then it took about 40 seconds of black screen memory training but it then POSTed, and subsequent warm boots were instant and cold boots only took like 3 seconds. Voltage is 1.3530V (not the 1.3560V that I misremembered). Memtest sort of passed but I stopped it at test 7 for now(took 31+ minutes thus far). OS seems to not crash so far.

Now there seems to be another type of cold boot, let's say drained boot, whereby I unplug power cable, then either let it drain for 30+ seconds until RGB leds go off, and/or_just press power button once. After that, plug back power cable, turn it on from power button.

Ok so this drained boot, this takes only 3 seconds too, in the above context. But for the previous BIOS settings this drained boot is what makes the difference, looks like. I might've misremembered things, as I've done them a few days ago.

So it must be my other BIOS settings* which are affecting the ability to use 4 RAM sticks, while simply just working fine with 2 sticks.

* things like IA AC/DC Load Line being changed(from Auto aka 1.2MOhms, to 0.01MOhms) and CPU being slightly overclocked(+0.05V) even though the idea is to undervolt it (and yeah it works, lower temps and voltage seen, and no throttling at constant prime95) while keeping it at around 4300Mhz tops, allowing it to auto-downclock too, when idle. However one annoying thing with having these settings(even with 2 DIMMs) is that on drainedboot power-on it first immediately does a power on then off in like less than 0.5 sec, I can hear the on/off relay too, as if it's doing some extra stuff now that it sensed things aren't on Auto or something. This doesn't happen on normal cold boot, nor on warm boot. ... oh well, I'll figure something out, at least now I know it's not the RAM, it's just the other BIOS settings.


----------



## rikidikibombom

reachthesky said:


> Does anyone know of a good way to fight off all the malware on this website? Everytime I come here, **** gets installed on my computer without my consent.



I use uBlock Origin and, uMatrix in whitelist mode(ie. block all) then allow only what's needed like (in Rules):


Code:


* * * block
overclock.net ajax.googleapis.com * allow
overclock.net cdnjs.cloudflare.com * allow
overclock.net overclock.net * allow

 Then sometimes you need to allow recaptcha (or maybe only when registering?):


Code:


overclock.net www.google.com * allow
overclock.net www.gstatic.com * allow

You might probably not want this because it is rather painful to do for every site you visit...


Sometimes you may not see images because they're linked from an external site, so I can add a new rule:


Code:


overclock.net i.imgur.com image allow

All the rules I usually add via the uMatrix UI, I'm just showing you them in textual form for clarity.


----------



## Imprezzion

uBlock Origin is all I use. On my phone I use AdGuard in VPN mode, no issues. 

I'm done with my initial OC for my new kit. It's a G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 2x16GB DR 3600CL16 B-Die kit that I got pretty cheap secondhand. 

I'm now running 3800 14-15-15-32-320-2T @ 1.552v with 1.35v SA 1.30v IO, manual secondaries and tertiary's and manual RTL/IO. RGB fully enabled and synced with MSI Mystic Sync btw. This was a kind of quick and dirty OC but it proved to perform very well in AIDA and HCI shows no issues with a 2.5 hour run. AIDA was ran on a fully bloated non optimized Windows 10 with loads of stuff loaded in the background so I could probably get it to go 60GB/s with 37.x latency but this is way more real-world like. 

Shame I can't get over 4000Mhz still.. my 2x8GB SR Corsairs have no issues at all booting 4600 (not stable, but at least it boots) as this still does not POST at all over 3900. 1T CR is possible, but not on 3800. It will do it on 3600 but CAS can't drop lower on 3600 1T then 14 either so it's mostly slower in latency benches like AIDA.

I might try to push for 3866 on these same timings just to see if it's possible to run it but i really don't wanna run any more DRAM / SA / IO voltage then i'm running here. Dropping any of those 3 now will result in errors within the first 100% of HCI. DRAM 1.52v for example errored at 60%, SA 1.30v errors within 2 minutes, IO 1.25v errors within 5 minutes..


EDIT: Yes, it will do 3866 no problem with the same timings and voltages. Just a bit different RTL Initials as neither 59 nor 57 would train properly, 63 did tho. 

Bandwidth did hit 60GB/s and latency did indeed drop to low 37ns. Nice. I'll settle here for now. I mean, it's only a 200% pass but 2h33m is plenty of testing time for me for a ballpark stability test.
I'll determine overall stability with daily usage. As long as it's good for my day to day usage it's stable enough. I don't need stability enough to pass 3 weeks of stresstesting tbh.


----------



## reachthesky

I also use ublock origin, its not enough. Whenever I visit this website, I open up my task manager and watch "windows installer" go off lol. One time I saw someone using command line utility. Another time 2 "intel" drivers without any names were installed through windows update, even though windows update was disabled. Yesterday "intel - bluetooth" got installed while visiting this website, I didn't even do it and I literally have all windows updates updates disabled. Oh, and whenever I mouth off here, my internet gets disconnected. O and then this real time network inspection that runs as a background process that can't be end tasked, This only happens when I visit this website. O yeah, most importantly, intel xtu showed up a handful of times when visiting this website-after a fresh windows install, no wonder one day an overclock would be completely stable then when i'd run another stress test while visiting this website it would look "unstable" and fail, even though before it passed several tests rofl. Someone on this website is fooking around with my pc against my consent.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Does anyone know what TM5 tests errors mean? Had an error in test 6 after 54 mins (cycle 3) in using the extreme preset.


----------



## Betroz

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know what TM5 tests errors mean? Had an error in test 6 after 54 mins (cycle 3) in using the extreme preset.


No, but probably you need more SA voltage.


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know what TM5 tests errors mean? Had an error in test 6 after 54 mins (cycle 3) in using the extreme preset.


It's always test 6 to 8 where you get "1" error after like 45 minutes.
If the errors don't suddenly start increasing rapidly (if they do that's temp related on RAM), it's almost always something about the IMC not liking something.
And those "1" errors are often the most annoying and hardest to track down and fix.

Sometimes you can fix it by raising tRCD/TRP by 1 instead of using flat primaries. But if you're getting it with that raised by 1 already, well...might have to loosen something else up if you don't want to go yeet on the system agent voltages.


----------



## Gregix

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know what TM5 tests errors mean? Had an error in test 6 after 54 mins (cycle 3) in using the extreme preset.


Maybe heat. Heat related error. Too much Vdram, or insufficient airflow, thus error.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know what TM5 tests errors mean? Had an error in test 6 after 54 mins (cycle 3) in using the extreme preset.


i say 
rtl combination with vccio/vcssa pairing

or twrrd_sg/dg pairing with twtr_L/s

but my bet on former. tm5 more to voltage. 
run hci to confirm the timings. 
remember tm5 doesnt stress alot of timings especially twr and the 3 timings related to it.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> but my bet on former. tm5 more to voltage.


That fits with my own testing too. Yesterday I tried to dial in SA voltage for a new memory setting. I started at 1.30v SA and worked my way up (for 4266 17-17-17-36 mem speed in this case). I got that ONE error in TM5 all the way, but it finally got error free at 1.37v SA (BIOS set), which is 1.408v actual volt under load. So I got TM5 anta777 extreme error free, but with ALOT of SA voltage for just 4266 C17... Is that because of a horrible IMC or RAM sticks?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> That fits with my own testing too. Yesterday I tried to dial in SA voltage for a new memory setting. I started at 1.30v SA and worked my way up (for 4266 17-17-17-36 mem speed in this case). I got that ONE error in TM5 all the way, but it finally got error free at 1.37v SA (BIOS set), which is 1.408v actual volt under load. So I got TM5 anta777 extreme error free, but with ALOT of SA voltage for just 4266 C17... Is that because of a horrible IMC or RAM sticks?


bandwidth is contributted on two sides
1 from ram and second is from IMC.. vccio/vcssa value are dependent on ram speed and not timings. cpu core/cache also affects it 5.2ghz onwards...

i am at the moment trying to understand this
2dimm tccd 4/6>4/7
4dimm tccd 4/7>4/6

and it affects rtl btw.

4700mhz tccd auto is 4/8 which is weird..

2dimm 
mode 1 N1 no training.. 
mode 2 training
afaik its only two algos change to auto.. but seems to be more than that 2.. so figuring this out aswell mode 1 has better dram clk for training.
mode 2 training on rtl also not as good as a mode 1. u can do lower in mode 1... mode 2 rtls for N1 just 1 step less than N2 compared to mode 1 which can do 2 less..


----------



## N7+

Falkentyne said:


> It's always test 6 to 8 where you get "1" error after like 45 minutes.
> If the errors don't suddenly start increasing rapidly (if they do that's temp related on RAM), it's almost always something about the IMC not liking something.
> And those "1" errors are often the most annoying and hardest to track down and fix.
> 
> Sometimes you can fix it by raising tRCD/TRP by 1 instead of using flat primaries. But if you're getting it with that raised by 1 already, well...might have to loosen something else up if you don't want to go yeet on the system agent voltages.


My 10700k's mem controller wants the SA and IO tightly together with the IO voltage a tiny bit above. This means I need to set for example 1.3 on SA and 1.32 IO in bios to pass testmem but to pass Prime I needed to use 1.33 IO because when running Prime the board pushes up the SA higher. Otherwise I get these random errors you talk about. It was fun tracking down this issue. lol

Not even an issue really just weird behavior. Any other combination no matter how high of a voltage, it throws errors.


----------



## cstkl1

N7+ said:


> Falkentyne said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's always test 6 to 8 where you get "1" error after like 45 minutes.
> If the errors don't suddenly start increasing rapidly (if they do that's temp related on RAM), it's almost always something about the IMC not liking something.
> And those "1" errors are often the most annoying and hardest to track down and fix.
> 
> Sometimes you can fix it by raising tRCD/TRP by 1 instead of using flat primaries. But if you're getting it with that raised by 1 already, well...might have to loosen something else up if you don't want to go yeet on the system agent voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> My 10700k's mem controller wants the SA and IO tightly together with the IO voltage a tiny bit above. This means I need to set for example 1.3 on SA and 1.32 IO in bios to pass testmem but to pass Prime I needed to use 1.33 IO because when running Prime the board pushes up the SA higher. Otherwise I get these random errors you talk about. It was fun tracking down this issue. lol
> 
> Not even an issue really just weird behavior. Any other combination no matter how high of a voltage, it throws errors.
Click to expand...

Hint .. loadline


----------



## N7+

cstkl1 said:


> Hint .. loadline


Hmm. Interesting. I have loadline at level 3. Maybe I should try two. Thanks!

Edit: Both mode 1 (highest) and 2 throw errors with this config. I'll need to play around with it more.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Falkentyne said:


> It's always test 6 to 8 where you get "1" error after like 45 minutes.
> If the errors don't suddenly start increasing rapidly (if they do that's temp related on RAM), it's almost always something about the IMC not liking something.
> And those "1" errors are often the most annoying and hardest to track down and fix.
> 
> Sometimes you can fix it by raising tRCD/TRP by 1 instead of using flat primaries. But if you're getting it with that raised by 1 already, well...might have to loosen something else up if you don't want to go yeet on the system agent voltages.



Thanks. Raising DRAM voltage from 1.45v to 1.46v fixed the issue for me. 4400MHz CL 17 IO 1.20v SA 1.25v. My CPU is set to 5.3GHz with 0 AVX but it downclocks in TM5 depending of the test. Is it normal?

Gonna try to stabilize my 4600MHz profile now.


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks. Raising DRAM voltage from 1.45v to 1.46v fixed the issue for me. 4400MHz CL 17 IO 1.20v SA 1.25v. My CPU is set to 5.3GHz with 0 AVX but it downclocks in TM5 depending of the test. Is it normal?
> 
> Gonna try to stabilize my 4600MHz profile now.



Try raising DDR current limits and CPU current capacity or something in Digi VRM settings?


----------



## Imprezzion

I needed 1.35v SA (1.357v after load line) 1.30v IO (1.315v after load line) on my P0 9900K to get TM5 to pass with 2x16GB DR B-Die @ 3866 CL14-15-15-32-320-2T. It needs way more for 32GB then it needed for 16GB 2x8GB SR DIMM's. That did about a full 0.1v less for 4133 CL16 lol.

I still cannot get anything over 3900 to boot on 32GB tho with this CPU / board combo.

I tried super loose timings, Auto enhance off on, mem tryit! 4000cl17 profiles, 1.6v DRAM, 1.45v SA IO.. nothing boots almost like it's a soft lock from the BIOS or something. Or just my IMC hating life right now.

My mates way newer 9600K with a Gigabyte Z390 Elite boots 4200CL17 just fine with these exact DIMM's tho so the DIMM's can do it... I'm still wondering if it's my CPU IMC or board holding me back with this 32GB kit..


----------



## SoldierRBT

Falkentyne said:


> Try raising DDR current limits and CPU current capacity or something in Digi VRM settings?


All settings are maxed out in BIOS so it may be an issue of TM5 (or a feature?). It only happens with TM5. Everything else is solid 5.3GHz.


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> All settings are maxed out in BIOS so it may be an issue of TM5 (or a feature?). It only happens with TM5. Everything else is solid 5.3GHz.


What happens if you test at a lower clock speed?
4.9 ghz is a 400 mhz drop. That's not supposed to happen.
I did all my testing at 5 ghz though.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Falkentyne said:


> What happens if you test at a lower clock speed?
> 4.9 ghz is a 400 mhz drop. That's not supposed to happen.
> I did all my testing at 5 ghz though.


In test 12 it drops to 5.1GHz but maintain 5.2GHz for the test. Then it drops to 4.9GHz in test 2 and maintain 5.2-5.3GHz in test 4. Cache clock never drops. 

5GHz all cores it still drops to 4.9GHz in test 2.


----------



## t4t3r

Relatively new to Intel (at least since my last Intel machines 10 years ago circa 3570k and 2500k) and have been following the thread for a little while. Tinkering with a recently purchased 10600k and a few different 2x8GB kits of which the best results so far have been my Viper 4400s and a super cheap Ripjaws 3200c14. Board is a cheap Z490 Tomahawk I picked up recently and whether it's the board or my 10600k IMC, I'm not able to boot anything over 4200 with reasonable SA/IO voltages. Instead I'm trying to tune 4200 down as tight as I can for now, and I've had my Vipers running 4200 14-14-14-32 but I had to loosen up the Ripjaws to 15-15-15-32 (screenshots below) which still seems pretty decent on both for the price. I know the Vipers don't get a ton of love here but surprisingly both of these kits do better than my Team 4133c18 and even my Gskill 3600c15 which I just received and seems to be a bit of a letdown. 

Other pertinent info: 10600k 1.3v running 48x / 47x ring. SA/IO both at 1.25. Memory at 1.5v.

So a couple questions:
1. I am still trying to learn all of the timings and relationships with Intel, but what kind of tweaks can I make on the screenshots below (especially since latency seems a bit high)?
2. Did I simply lose the lottery on my Team 4133c18 and Gskill TridentZ 3600c15 kits mentioned above, or do they need to run at higher speeds to really get the most out of them since they are A2 pcb? Really had high hopes for the Tridents...
3. What is most likely limiting my headroom for 4200+ -- weak IMC on the 10600k or quality of the Z490 Tomahawk? I may try an ITX board soon for the 2 slot advantage and have also been considering a 10700k. Love Asus boards but the Maximus line is probably out of my price range for now.

Not to throw any gas on the fire, but while I love my Ryzen builds so far, this Intel rig has been so much more fun to tune!


----------



## Falkentyne

t4t3r said:


> Relatively new to Intel (at least since my last Intel machines 10 years ago circa 3570k and 2500k) and have been following the thread for a little while. Tinkering with a recently purchased 10600k and a few different 2x8GB kits of which the best results so far have been my Viper 4400s and a super cheap Ripjaws 3200c14. Board is a cheap Z490 Tomahawk I picked up recently and whether it's the board or my 10600k IMC, I'm not able to boot anything over 4200 with reasonable SA/IO voltages. Instead I'm trying to tune 4200 down as tight as I can for now, and I've had my Vipers running 4200 14-14-14-32 but I had to loosen up the Ripjaws to 15-15-15-32 (screenshots below) which still seems pretty decent on both for the price. I know the Vipers don't get a ton of love here but surprisingly both of these kits do better than my Team 4133c18 and even my Gskill 3600c15 which I just received and seems to be a bit of a letdown.
> 
> Other pertinent info: 10600k 1.3v running 48x / 47x ring. SA/IO both at 1.25. Memory at 1.5v.
> 
> So a couple questions:
> 1. I am still trying to learn all of the timings and relationships with Intel, but what kind of tweaks can I make on the screenshots below (especially since latency seems a bit high)?
> 2. Did I simply lose the lottery on my Team 4133c18 and Gskill TridentZ 3600c15 kits mentioned above, or do they need to run at higher speeds to really get the most out of them since they are A2 pcb? Really had high hopes for the Tridents...
> 3. What is most likely limiting my headroom for 4200+ -- weak IMC on the 10600k or quality of the Z490 Tomahawk? I may try an ITX board soon for the 2 slot advantage and have also been considering a 10700k. Love Asus boards but the Maximus line is probably out of my price range for now.
> 
> Not to throw any gas on the fire, but while I love my Ryzen builds so far, this Intel rig has been so much more fun to tune!


Run the read, write, copy and latency settings separately by just clicking on them. If that doesn't work, you can go into the actual test options in the GUI and run them from there, so you won't see "Trial version."
And those speeds are extremely bad, but you need to see your write and copy.


----------



## t4t3r

Falkentyne said:


> Run the read, write, copy and latency settings separately by just clicking on them. If that doesn't work, you can go into the actual test options in the GUI and run them from there, so you won't see "Trial version."
> And those speeds are extremely bad, but you need to see your write and copy.


Sorry I had to dig out my aida license. Which speeds are you saying are terrible, read/write/copy or 4200? R/W/C definitely seem low as well as high latency, but I wasn't sure if that was because I'm running a 10600k or my secondaries/tertiaries just suck.


----------



## Falkentyne

t4t3r said:


> Sorry I had to dig out my aida license. Which speeds are you saying are terrible, read/write/copy or 4200? R/W/C definitely seem low as well as high latency, but I wasn't sure if that was because I'm running a 10600k or my secondaries/tertiaries just suck.


Your tertiaries suck  And some of your secondaries too. And your read and write are low and your copy is atrocious.
You should be at at least 61,000 for read and write, and copy should be no lower than 3000 below them.

Look what I get at a lower RAM speed and looser primary timings in my last post. Yes it's dual rank vs your 2x8 but that shouldn't make that much difference.
You should at least match my speed when my primaries are looser than yours. So you gotta start tuning.


----------



## Betroz

I am considering buying a G.Skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK kit. Those of you with a G.Skill 3200C14, 3600C16 or higher 2x16 kit, what are your 24/7 stable settings? Can I expect 4200-4400 Mhz range with C16 or C17 (on a XII Apex)??? 4133 C16 would be good too with tight timings.


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> I am considering buying a G.Skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK kit. Those of you with a G.Skill 3200C14, 3600C16 or higher 2x16 kit, what are your 24/7 stable settings? Can I expect 4200-4400 Mhz range with C16 or C17 (on a XII Apex)??? 4133 C16 would be good too with tight timings.


I have 3200C14 kit. Did 4200 16-15-15-30 2T on stock air cooler, now does 4400 16-16-16-32 on water (1.53 Vdimm, 0.8V DRAM VTT)

details see:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-465.html#post28576050 and
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-466.html#post28576072


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> I have 3200C14 kit. Did 4200 16-15-15-30 2T on stock air cooler, now does 4400 16-16-16-32 on water (1.53 Vdimm, 0.8V DRAM VTT)


Thank you 
Btw, is manual DRAM VTT really necessary on a XII Apex board like I have? Have it on Auto myself.


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> Thank you
> Btw, is manual DRAM VTT really necessary on a XII Apex board like I have? Have it on Auto myself.


depends on how much you want to push your ram to the max, usually auto = Vdimm / 2, so for 1.53 Vdimm it would be 0.765 DRAM VTT, but I found tweaking it can give you more stability, without the downside of raising Vdimm being temperature sensitivity of 1.6 Vdimm. 

So 0.8 DRAM VTT effectively gives you stability of 1.6 Vdimm, without the temperature sensitivity. 

I've found that dual rank b die likes VTT DRAM ~ 50mV more than Vdimm / 2, and single rank likes up to ~50 mV less than Vdimm / 2


----------



## Imprezzion

skullbringer said:


> depends on how much you want to push your ram to the max, usually auto = Vdimm / 2, so for 1.53 Vdimm it would be 0.765 DRAM VTT, but I found tweaking it can give you more stability, without the downside of raising Vdimm being temperature sensitivity of 1.6 Vdimm.
> 
> So 0.8 DRAM VTT effectively gives you stability of 1.6 Vdimm, without the temperature sensitivity.
> 
> I've found that dual rank b die likes VTT DRAM ~ 50mV more than Vdimm / 2, and single rank likes up to ~50 mV less than Vdimm / 2


Would that help me get past 3866 14-15-15-32-320 in 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo's (3600c16 B-Die) with a really bad IMC and a not-so-good board for RAM OC?

I might just give it a shot lol. At least my board has VTT settings.

I really don't wanna spend like €300 on a Apex on this dead socket / chipset and would rather just buy a 10700K with a proper Z490 board then.

Speaking of that. What Z490 board is generally recommended for RAM OC compatibility? I don't really have any other demands other then a strong enough VRM for a water-cooled 10900K at max OC (if I ever find a decently priced secondhand one to upgrade the 10700K with) that doesn't hold me back and 2 m.2 slots. I only ever use 1 GPU and no other expansion slots so..


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> I am considering buying a G.Skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK kit. Those of you with a G.Skill 3200C14, 3600C16 or higher 2x16 kit, what are your 24/7 stable settings? Can I expect 4200-4400 Mhz range with C16 or C17 (on a XII Apex)??? 4133 C16 would be good too with tight timings.


Dont buy those. Buy the 4kc17d32 or wait for 4266-4400c17d32. Theres new bins and better u buy from gskill taiwan directly.,

I got incoming this week from gskill taiwan
1 kit of 4kc17d32 royals
2kits of 4400c16d16gb Trident rgb &
1kit 3200c14d32 ripjaws. 

(suspect 4400c16 are hynix so guessing the tccd wont be good)

Those 32gb atm if u are lucky.. might do [email protected] if unlucky 1.5v


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> Theres new bins and better u buy from gskill taiwan directly


Thanx for the tip, but I like my warranty here in Norway, and If I get a bad bin, I can return it to the store.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> Dont buy those. Buy the 4kc17d32 or wait for 4266-4400c17d32. Theres new bins and better u buy from gskill taiwan directly.,
> 
> I got incoming this week from gskill taiwan
> 1 kit of 4kc17d32 royals
> 2kits of 4400c16d16gb Trident rgb &
> 1kit 3200c14d32 ripjaws.
> 
> (suspect 4400c16 are hynix so guessing the tccd wont be good)
> 
> Those 32gb atm if u are lucky.. might do [email protected] if unlucky 1.5v


I'm testing 4000c19 32 now, and they are pretty good. 4400c17 is easy


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Would that help me get past 3866 14-15-15-32-320 in 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo's (3600c16 B-Die) with a really bad IMC and a not-so-good board for RAM OC?
> 
> I might just give it a shot lol. At least my board has VTT settings.
> 
> I really don't wanna spend like €300 on a Apex on this dead socket / chipset and would rather just buy a 10700K with a proper Z490 board then.
> 
> Speaking of that. What Z490 board is generally recommended for RAM OC compatibility? I don't really have any other demands other then a strong enough VRM for a water-cooled 10900K at max OC (if I ever find a decently priced secondhand one to upgrade the 10700K with) that doesn't hold me back and 2 m.2 slots. I only ever use 1 GPU and no other expansion slots so..


There is one z490 board wort buying. Z490 Apex. Same for z390, Apex .

Best board overall, until proven othervice  Not too bad price either. Supports Rocketlake so it's not dead yet. The performance is very alive!


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> I'm testing 4000c19 32 now, and they are pretty good. 4400c17 is easy


arent those the ones that heat up quite abit with no temp sensor??


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> arent those the ones that heat up quite abit with no temp sensor??




G.Skill Trident Z Black DDR4 4000MHz 2x16GB (F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK)


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> G.Skill Trident Z Black DDR4 4000MHz 2x16GB (F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK)


yeah thats da ones. do u know da production date on it??

i wonder is it because of daisy chain.. we are seeing dual rank ones doing so good atm.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> G.Skill Trident Z Black DDR4 4000MHz 2x16GB (F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK)


yeah thats da ones. do u know da production date on it??

i wonder is it because of daisy chain.. we are seeing dual rank ones doing so good atm. 

btw how u solved 5.4ghz freeze issue in fft112. 
tried a bunch of things.. wasnt solving anything including that internal pll voltage.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> yeah thats da ones. do u know da production date on it??
> 
> i wonder is it because of daisy chain.. we are seeing dual rank ones doing so good atm.
> 
> btw how u solved 5.4ghz freeze issue in fft112.
> tried a bunch of things.. wasnt solving anything including that internal pll voltage.


Try:

1) reduce cache ratio

2) Increase PLL Term to 1.2-1.3v

3) Increase Tweaker's Paradise -->DMI Voltage.
(I Do not know what this voltage is. It may be "CPU PLL voltage", because DMI Voltage is automatically linked to VCCIO.
You can see them linked in Asus TurboVcore. But the one in "Tweaker's Paradise" is not the same thing. You can check this yourself.
Changing "DMI Voltage" in Tweaker's Paradise then checking it in Turbo V Core should still have it linked to VCCIO, so I don't know what it is.
If it is not linked to VCCIO when you change it manually, I would like to hear about it. Maybe it's possible this unlinks it. Or maybe you need to insert a "DMI Pin" into the hole in the socket.


4) CPU Standby Voltage in Tweaker's Paradise is actaully "CPU Standby Gated" voltage. MSI calls this VCCSTG. I don't know what this does, but changing this is a quick and easy way to get 00, although it may work when you change it the first time, then 00 if you try to change it back (or maybe "DMI Voltage"). But I can 100% guarantee you if you change both VCCSTG and DMI, then change both of them back, you are going to get "00" every time. Maybe that will help or just 00 you.

5) Set PLL Bandwidth to "1". Do NOT go above 1 if you value the life of your CPU or your DTS sensors. (This is "CPU PLL OC Voltage". default or "0" is 1.20v. 1 is 1.37v. 2 is 1.73v. You don't want to use 2. Values higher than 1 are supposed to be for some sort of subzero coldbug crap.


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Try:
> 
> 1) reduce cache ratio
> 
> 2) Increase PLL Term to 1.2-1.3v..
> 
> 3) Increase Tweaker's Paradise -->DMI Voltage.
> (I Do not know what this voltage is. It may be "CPU PLL voltage", because DMI Voltage is automatically linked to VCCIO.
> You can see them linked in Asus TurboVcore. But the one in "Tweaker's Paradise" is not the same thing. You can check this yourself.
> Changing "DMI Voltage" in Tweaker's Paradise then checking it in Turbo V Core should still have it linked to VCCIO, so I don't know what it is.
> If it is not linked to VCCIO when you change it manually, I would like to hear about it. Maybe it's possible this unlinks it. Or maybe you need to insert a "DMI Pin" into the hole in the socket.
> 
> 
> 4) CPU Standby Voltage in Tweaker's Paradise is actaully "CPU Standby Gated" voltage. MSI calls this VCCSTG. I don't know what this does, but changing this is a quick and easy way to get 00, although it may work when you change it the first time, then 00 if you try to change it back (or maybe "DMI Voltage"). But I can 100% guarantee you if you change both VCCSTG and DMI, then change both of them back, you are going to get "00" every time. Maybe that will help or just 00 you.
> 
> 5) Set PLL Bandwidth to "1". Do NOT go above 1 if you value the life of your CPU or your DTS sensors. (This is "CPU PLL OC Voltage". default or "0" is 1.20v. 1 is 1.37v. 2 is 1.73v. You don't want to use 2. Values higher than 1 are supposed to be for some sort of subzero coldbug crap.


1. cache was at default
2. tested that nope seems like a temp solution.. freeze at 2/3min to freeze at 7min
3. thats not what dmi is. anyway nope.. doesnt do a thing
4. cpu standby.. hmm this i didnt try cause in the past in x299 it has a lot of inconsistency
5.. hell no. it raises the cpu temps.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> 1. cache was at default
> 2. tested that nope seems like a temp solution.. freeze at 2/3min to freeze at 7min
> 3. thats not what dmi is. anyway nope.. doesnt do a thing
> 4. cpu standby.. hmm this i didnt try cause in the past in x299 it has a lot of inconsistency
> 5.. hell no. it raises the cpu temps.


VCCIO and DMI voltage are linked.
I don't know or understand the purpose of the DMI pin but I can show you.

PLL Term is for coldbug but it helps cache slightly if increased.


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> VCCIO and DMI voltage are linked.
> I don't know or understand the purpose of the DMI pin but I can show you.
> 
> PLL Term is for coldbug but it helps cache slightly if increased.


you are posting stuff a old stuff...

but without understanding what it does..

dmi is not the problem. and no idea why u keep repeating..
dmi is what connects the the cpu to PCH its the main i/o. its not gonna help..

i am asking those who solved the issue. not guesswork.

pll bandwidth is not the issue.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> you are posting stuff a old stuff...
> 
> but without understanding what it does..
> 
> dmi is not the problem. and no idea why u keep repeating..
> dmi is what connects the the cpu to PCH its the main i/o. its not gonna help..
> 
> i am asking those who solved the issue. not guesswork.
> 
> pll bandwidth is not the issue.


That's not old stuff.
That came from Shamino for Z490 platform.
It was part of what he sent to me before release.
And I said already I don't know what the problem is, sorry.
Have to take guesses to fix stuff like this. I'm only telling you what Shamino told me. Sorry if you don't like it :/


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> That's not old stuff.
> That came from Shamino for Z490 platform.
> It was part of what he sent to me before release.
> And I said already I don't know what the problem is, sorry.
> Have to take guesses to fix stuff like this. I'm only telling you what Shamino told me. Sorry if you don't like it :/


Its old stuff bro. Not new to z490. Nvrmind guess i have to get to the bottom of this. Have some ideas what it is from x299 5.0ghz bug.. 

Btw doesnt this mean these dudes with directdie can do 5.8ghz HT off.. ????


----------



## Imprezzion

Nizzen said:


> There is one z490 board wort buying. Z490 Apex. Same for z390, Apex .
> 
> Best board overall, until proven othervice  Not too bad price either. Supports Rocketlake so it's not dead yet. The performance is very alive!


My dude, not too bad price? That board is €490 here lol. That is insane for a board. Like, where is the time where a high-end board was like, €250 at best. Even my Z390 Ace was just €270 and it's the one board below the Godlike.

I can't justify spending that much for just a slightly better chance at a memory overclock lol.


----------



## Jtfyondaime

Hello everyone. Got 10700k msi unify z490 and gskill flare x 3200c14d dram for amd(bought them while i had ryzen in 2017).

I really love the quality of intel. Fast boot time, stutterless and high performance gameplay etc. 

Problem is I can not overclock them like i want. For example i can get cpu at 5.1 ring 4.8 @ 1.35 vcore llc3 and io 1.15 sa 1.30 4000 mhz dram 19 19 19 45 480 @1.45v kinda stable.

Temps are 90 max at stress tests like cinebench, yet i cant do a stable overclock with lowering sa voltage. Used all bios versions shown in boards page (a10 a20 a23beta).

Are my flare x bdies reason for high dram and sa voltage? Can i lower all these voltages if i go dual rank dram like patriot 4400c19? Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

Jtfyondaime said:


> Hello everyone. Got 10700k msi unify z490 and gskill flare x 3200c14d dram for amd(bought them while i had ryzen in 2017).
> 
> I really love the quality of intel. Fast boot time, stutterless and high performance gameplay etc.
> 
> Problem is I can not overclock them like i want. For example i can get cpu at 5.1 ring 4.8 @ 1.35 vcore llc3 and io 1.15 sa 1.30 4000 mhz dram 19 19 19 45 480 @1.45v kinda stable.
> 
> Temps are 90 max at stress tests like cinebench, yet i cant do a stable overclock with lowering sa voltage. Used all bios versions shown in boards page (a10 a20 a23beta).
> 
> Are my flare x bdies reason for high dram and sa voltage? Can i lower all these voltages if i go dual rank dram like patriot 4400c19? Thanks


Use enough SA voltage. It's not dangerous. It's the only way to overclock the memory HIGH 


I'm using 1.62v SA  4700c17 1t 2x8GB


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Use enough SA voltage. It's not dangerous. It's the only way to overclock the memory HIGH
> 
> 
> I'm using 1.62v SA  4700c17 1t 2x8GB


Err default auto is 1.7v so u actually went lower.. 
nearly gave me a heartattack when i saw dat


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> Err default auto is 1.7v so u actually went lower..
> nearly gave me a heartattack when i saw dat


4800c17 1t was 1.69v SA Auto LOL

No chip has died yet because of high SA here


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> No chip has died yet because of high SA here


Maybe because you only keep the CPU for 1-2 years before selling it


----------



## KrampusKlaus

opt33 said:


> 40mm fans move so little air doesnt help much, even if right over ram. I tried 40,60,80,120mm fans on mine and ended up with single 80mm fan at 2000rpms (quiet for 80mm) drops ram temps 3-4C placed right over ram. 40mm did nothing, 60mm 2-3C lower. 120mm at 1000rpms dropped temps ~6C, but doesnt fit well in space I have for it. I also have some air from my top rad fan already hitting ram, so 40/60mm additional fans may have less effect in my system since wasnt adding much to air already. If you have no air on them might help more, but would use at least 60mm or 80mm fan, since side may be less but better than nothing.


I just wanted to post with some interesting findings for memory cooling.

With a tower cooler covering my memory dimms, it’s impractical to directly cool them.

I put a temperature probe between the dimms and touching one of the memory heatsinks. It obviously doesn’t tell me the chip temperatures, but it does read ambient air temps and heatsink temps. So I have some idea of whether the chips are warmer or cooler.

With 3 fractal stock fans intake and 3 LL120s exhaust (1 rear, 2 top, the one closest to the front kind of sits above the dimms but I keep it at minimum speeds to avoid stealing too much intake from my CPU tower cooler), I would have probe temps under load of between 34-40C. If the heatsinks are 40C, then the chips must be at least a few degrees warmer, which may have been causing instability (I started getting memtest errors this summer with otherwise stable memory settings)

Removing the front mesh panel reduced probe temps by a few degrees.

Last night I replaced the 3 fractal fans with 3 Arctic P12 PWM fans. I set the topmost fan (pointed at the CPU cooler to hit max speeds when the CPU under load. The bottom two fans were only hitting about 1400rpm (I set the wrong sensor in the bios fan curves). Running TW3K’s battle benchmark I was seeing probe temps of 40C.

Went back into bios and made it so that all 3 intake fans hit max speed under load, such that I could feel air flowing through the uncovered PCIe slots below my GPU. Running TW3K battle benchmark, probe temps dropped to 32-33C. A huge difference in memory temps. All from increasing airflow across the 
GPU.

Rough Hypothesis: hot air flowing upwards from a non-blower style GPU (because heat rises) can contribute to high memory temperatures. When direct memory cooling isn’t practical (or desirable, for aesthetic reasons), then uncovering the PCIe slots below the GPU and using strong front intake fans to overcome thermodynamics by brute-force, and shunting exhaust from the GPU out the rear of the case can improve memory temps.

This setup has numerous benefits: it’s possible with nearly all cases and hardware configurations, benefits thermals of axial fan GPUs and air cooled CPUs, and looks better than zip-tying a fan to your ram (though I’d bet that direct memory cooling is still superior). 

If I ever upgrade to memory with built in thermal sensors, I’m going to do some more testing to see how this fan configuration actually affects memory temps.


----------



## Jtfyondaime

Nizzen said:


> Jtfyondaime said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone. Got 10700k msi unify z490 and gskill flare x 3200c14d dram for amd(bought them while i had ryzen in 2017).
> 
> I really love the quality of intel. Fast boot time, stutterless and high performance gameplay etc.
> 
> Problem is I can not overclock them like i want. For example i can get cpu at 5.1 ring 4.8 @ 1.35 vcore llc3 and io 1.15 sa 1.30 4000 mhz dram 19 19 19 45 480 @1.45v kinda stable.
> 
> Temps are 90 max at stress tests like cinebench, yet i cant do a stable overclock with lowering sa voltage. Used all bios versions shown in boards page (a10 a20 a23beta).
> 
> Are my flare x bdies reason for high dram and sa voltage? Can i lower all these voltages if i go dual rank dram like patriot 4400c19? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Use enough SA voltage. It's not dangerous. It's the only way to overclock the memory HIGH /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> 
> I'm using 1.62v SA /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif 4700c17 1t 2x8GB
Click to expand...

Well what do you suggest me to do? Get lower ram frequency or loose timings or give 1.3v sa without any doubt?

And one more thing, what is the safe max voltage for gskill flare x 3200c14d 8gfx bdies.


----------



## SunnyStefan

You can raise VCCSA to 1.4v with out any issue, short term or long term. 1.4v for SA seems to be unanimously accepted as well within the "safe range" for Z490, even 1.45v SA is considered conservative so long as you keep your CPU/RAM temps in check.


----------



## munternet

Jtfyondaime said:


> Well what do you suggest me to do? Get lower ram frequency or loose timings or give 1.3v sa without any doubt?
> 
> And one more thing, what is the safe max voltage for gskill flare x 3200c14d 8gfx bdies.


1.3v will be fine for sa. I have mine at 1.35v and have no concerns.
Don't get dual rank ram if you are concerned about voltages as you will need more, not less


----------



## Jtfyondaime

SunnyStefan said:


> You can raise VCCSA to 1.4v with out any issue, short term or long term. 1.4v for SA seems to be unanimously accepted as well within the "safe range" for Z490, even 1.45v SA is considered conservative so long as you keep your CPU/RAM temps in check.





munternet said:


> 1.3v will be fine for sa. I have mine at 1.35v and have no concerns.
> Don't get dual rank ram if you are concerned about voltages as you will need more, not less


Thanks for both answers. 

So I can go fine with sa voltage till 1.35-1.4.

What are the max voltages for io - flare x 3200c14 bdies and vcore?

What should voltage mode be? Auto, override, offset? 

And max temps I should avoid in stress tests? Thanks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> 1.3v will be fine for sa. I have mine at 1.35v and have no concerns.
> Don't get dual rank ram if you are concerned about voltages as you will need more, not less


now 1.52V SA & IO 1.42V daily


----------



## mouacyk

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> now 1.52V SA & IO 1.42V daily


To the 1.5v+ SA guys -- I think you've been misspelling dally. Those are your dally setups, not daily setups.


----------



## Agent-A01

Not having a lot of luck with consistency with this setup.

Z490 ASUS Hero.

Have a Gskill 32GB 4x8GB CL14 3200 kit.

Trying to run 4000 or 3866.

Been using HCI but it's slow, found out about tm5 today.

HCI gives random single errors between 30-70%.
TM5 gives error within a few minutes. Usually 1-2 errors then it may error out a bunch or it may not.

Timing don't seem to help reduce the occurring errors.

Started off with 4000 CL15-16-16-36 > CL16-17-17-38 with 1.5v DRAM.
I'm currently trying to do 3866. I've CL15-16-16-36 > CL16-17-17-38.

Secondary and tertiary seems to have no effect either.
I've tried 1.1SA and 1.1VCCIO all the way up to 1.3 for both. Does not change the frequency of errors.

What's really annoying is sometimes when I decide to start over with different timings, windows will not boot up, it crashes at startup and will continuely loop errors such as winload.efi missing etc on timings that were otherwise known working before.

If i load XMP profile, save, reboot, reapply the previous timings then it will boot into windows.
Extremely weird.. I've also noticed that a couple fans will stay powered off with constant reboots.

I've tried mode 1 tweak, doesn't seem to do anything either.

Any ideas?


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> Not having a lot of luck with consistency with this setup.
> 
> Z490 ASUS Hero.
> 
> Have a Gskill 32GB 4x8GB CL14 3200 kit.
> 
> Trying to run 4000 or 3866.
> 
> Been using HCI but it's slow, found out about tm5 today.
> 
> HCI gives random single errors between 30-70%.
> TM5 gives error within a few minutes. Usually 1-2 errors then it may error out a bunch or it may not.
> 
> Timing don't seem to help reduce the occurring errors.
> 
> Started off with 4000 CL15-16-16-36 > CL16-17-17-38 with 1.5v DRAM.
> I'm currently trying to do 3866. I've CL15-16-16-36 > CL16-17-17-38.
> 
> Secondary and tertiary seems to have no effect either.
> I've tried 1.1SA and 1.1VCCIO all the way up to 1.3 for both. Does not change the frequency of errors.
> 
> What's really annoying is sometimes when I decide to start over with different timings, windows will not boot up, it crashes at startup and will continuely loop errors such as winload.efi missing etc on timings that were otherwise known working before.
> 
> If i load XMP profile, save, reboot, reapply the previous timings then it will boot into windows.
> Extremely weird.. I've also noticed that a couple fans will stay powered off with constant reboots.
> 
> I've tried mode 1 tweak, doesn't seem to do anything either.
> 
> Any ideas?


4k is consistent on all bios but if u must

bios 0606.

use tm5 for consistency check and voltage check. its not as good as hci when it comes to timings.


----------



## SuperMumrik

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> now 1.52V SA & IO 1.42V daily/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif


Dang! That is something I could throw out my 2*8 for.. Good job! 😊 I guess there is some binning involved?


----------



## munternet

Agent-A01 said:


> Not having a lot of luck with consistency with this setup.
> 
> Z490 ASUS Hero.
> 
> Have a Gskill 32GB 4x8GB CL14 3200 kit.
> 
> Trying to run 4000 or 3866.
> 
> Been using HCI but it's slow, found out about tm5 today.
> 
> HCI gives random single errors between 30-70%.
> TM5 gives error within a few minutes. Usually 1-2 errors then it may error out a bunch or it may not.
> 
> Timing don't seem to help reduce the occurring errors.
> 
> Started off with 4000 CL15-16-16-36 > CL16-17-17-38 with 1.5v DRAM.
> I'm currently trying to do 3866. I've CL15-16-16-36 > CL16-17-17-38.
> 
> Secondary and tertiary seems to have no effect either.
> I've tried 1.1SA and 1.1VCCIO all the way up to 1.3 for both. Does not change the frequency of errors.
> 
> What's really annoying is sometimes when I decide to start over with different timings, windows will not boot up, it crashes at startup and will continuely loop errors such as winload.efi missing etc on timings that were otherwise known working before.
> 
> If i load XMP profile, save, reboot, reapply the previous timings then it will boot into windows.
> Extremely weird.. I've also noticed that a couple fans will stay powered off with constant reboots.
> 
> I've tried mode 1 tweak, doesn't seem to do anything either.
> 
> Any ideas?


You can use TurboV-Core in windows with TM5 running to find the voltages you need to be error free if you haven't tried that already.
The fact it doesn't train sometimes could indicate a lack of vdimm or one of the others. It can also indicate too much of something.
Start with a setup that has a low error count per minute so you don't corrupt your OS 
I've also had better results when using B-Die with primaries like 4000-16-16-16-36 rather than mixing the numbers


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

Slowly storming this frequency:medieval:


----------



## munternet

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Slowly storming this frequency:medieval:


Nice one :thumb:


----------



## reflex75

fly1ngh1gh said:


> Slowly storming this frequency/forum/images/smilies/medieval.gif


Amazing low latency! 
Good job!


----------



## mattliston

That is a butt load of system agent voltage. Definitely not a daily usage voltage Id be comfortable with, unless I had a few known good IMC chips hanging around. 5.4ghz must be quite the heat load to take care of as well.


----------



## Agent-A01

munternet said:


> You can use TurboV-Core in windows with TM5 running to find the voltages you need to be error free if you haven't tried that already.
> The fact it doesn't train sometimes could indicate a lack of vdimm or one of the others. It can also indicate too much of something.
> Start with a setup that has a low error count per minute so you don't corrupt your OS
> I've also had better results when using B-Die with primaries like 4000-16-16-16-36 rather than mixing the numbers


TurboV core is the ASUS utility?

Any voltages besides the obvious like DRAM, VCCIO and SA that I need to play with?

I've been trying to find IMGs of timings of people running 4x8gb but that doesn't seem to be a too common setup.

I know a 2dimm setup would probably be much easier for OC but 16GB isn't enough for me.


----------



## munternet

Agent-A01 said:


> TurboV core is the ASUS utility?
> 
> Any voltages besides the obvious like DRAM, VCCIO and SA that I need to play with?
> 
> I've been trying to find IMGs of timings of people running 4x8gb but that doesn't seem to be a too common setup.
> 
> I know a 2dimm setup would probably be much easier for OC but 16GB isn't enough for me.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&pf_rd_p=6fc81c8c-2a38-41c6-a68a-f78c79e7253f are good value and clock well
I got the 3600c16 of the same pedigree which I run at 4200c17 daily.
I did get them to 4400c17 and higher but I wasn't happy with the voltages for a daily
Have a browse *here* you might find TurboV_Core and some other useful stuff


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SuperMumrik said:


> Dang! That is something I could throw out my 2*8 for.. Good job! 😊 I guess there is some binning involved?


Thx! Just bought one 4000C17D-32GTRGB when this kit first appeared on Newegg


----------



## Agent-A01

munternet said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&pf_rd_p=6fc81c8c-2a38-41c6-a68a-f78c79e7253f are good value and clock well
> I got the 3600c16 of the same pedigree which I run at 4200c17 daily.
> I did get them to 4400c17 and higher but I wasn't happy with the voltages for a daily
> Have a browse *here* you might find TurboV_Core and some other useful stuff


That essentially is the same kit I have, though it's in two dimm form.

Is there really that much difference on 2 dimm setups for oc?
I did see this kit but can't seem to find it for sale anywhere.

It may have a better OC overall but it's 1.5v compared to 1.35v. 3200 C14
F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR

Before I buy a kit I'll try giving 4000 some more time.
Are there any other bios options that may help stabilize?

And thanks for the link, I'll look over it.


----------



## munternet

Agent-A01 said:


> That essentially is the same kit I have, though it's in two dimm form.
> 
> Is there really that much difference on 2 dimm setups for oc?
> I did see this kit but can't seem to find it for sale anywhere.
> 
> It may have a better OC overall but it's 1.5v compared to 1.35v. 3200 C14
> F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR
> 
> Before I buy a kit I'll try giving 4000 some more time.
> Are there any other bios options that may help stabilize?
> 
> And thanks for the link, I'll look over it.


The z490 range is daisy chain I think but the earlier Asus boards were T-Topology so 2 dimms might be better now
I'm sure someone will comment that has tried both


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Thx! Just bought one 4000C17D-32GTRGB when this kit first appeared on Newegg


so dual rank has the same bug as 4dimm
tccd 4/7> 4/6??


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> so dual rank has the same bug as 4dimm
> tccd 4/7> 4/6??


haven't tested the performance of 4-6 yet, since it was not stable in TM5.

1DPC DR has similar copy behavior as the 2DPC SR, so i guess some of the bugs might be also similar.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> now 1.52V SA & IO 1.42V daily


That's crazy :thumb:
Makes me feel good about my 1.35v io and sa


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> That's crazy :thumb:
> Makes me feel good about my 1.35v io and sa


Just lowered to 1.35 IO and 1.42 SA, and continue trying.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Just lowered to 1.35 IO and 1.42 SA, and continue trying.


hint
dram clk. but dats in mode 1.. 

theres two sets btw.. one for odd ram and one for norm. so test this out. (example 8 n 4k not da same as 4133)


----------



## SuperMumrik

1.35 is nothing to worry about 😁
I run 1.37io and 1.55sa with 1.56vdimm for this 




munternet said:


> That's crazy /forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif
> Makes me feel good about my 1.35v io and sa /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif


----------



## geriatricpollywog

SuperMumrik said:


> 1.35 is nothing to worry about 😁
> I run 1.37io and 1.55sa with 1.56vdimm for this


+Rep brotha for actually hardcore overclocking.


----------



## Gen.

My final system setup (stable in TM5 Extreme1, LinX 0.9.7, Karhu RAM Test 1.1.0.0). Now I'm waiting for a memory that cost me 72 euros (F4-3000C14D-16GVR).


----------



## mattliston

ODDBALL for sure, but trying out some ECC ram overclocking, well, tightening for latency drops.


Rig is E5-2660 V3 running at default, but uses per core turbo as needed.


Ram is Samsung 2666 CL19 running at locked max 2133mhz (per this xeon's restriction)


Default was 2133 15-15-15-35-374, and I set tREFI to 20000 with ram voltage 1.35v. I set command rate to 2T



Here are a few results, some I did not get perfect settings, too involved in seeing what I can do.


















Now to 14-14-14-35-374-20000 (dropped just in case)












13-13-13-35-350-24000














Going for CL11, then going to work on tRFC and tREFI. Hoping for tRFC to hit as low as 200 and tREFI to hit as high as 36000. No idea why I chose these numbers, they just seem like achievable goals.




Each time, I booted system, let idle for 5 minutes, ran HCI Memtest PRO with 10x instances, 2000mb, and let it run til 100%.




Once I hit where I think it may top out at, I will run 2250MB up to 2000%, as I feel this will ensure it gets all the memory, and will provide quite a long enough period of time to FULLY heat up the memory, if it even can at such a low voltage of 1.35v and low bandwidth.


----------



## pox02

my 9900ks still holds up after 6 months io 1.3 sa 1.3 voltage 1.50V


----------



## mattliston

BAM! crossed the 60gb/s territory with measly 2133mhz ram. quad channels of memory is such a nice thing to have.




Currently on 2133mhz 12-12-12-34, tRFC of 300, tREFI 28000, still at CR2, and my RT's are at 51 across all 4.



EDIT

(((see attached image, OCN decided it would be cute to attempt to re-create the picture in binary and text digits)))
EDIT



I am a little stuck on how I want to go further. I still do not know how hard ECC is working at this ram to keep it working, and I dont want to miss out on anything left on the table.


I guess I will keep chipping away at it.


Any pointers? here is a copy of aida64's memory data


Memory Timings 
CAS Latency (CL) 12T
RAS To CAS Delay (tRCD) 12T
RAS Precharge (tRP) 12T
RAS Active Time (tRAS) 34T
Row Refresh Cycle Time (tRFC) 300T
Command Rate (CR) 2T
CAS To CAS Delay (tCCD) Same Bank Group: 6T, Diff. Bank Group: 4T
RAS To RAS Delay (tRRD) Same Bank Group: 6T, Diff. Bank Group: 4T
Write Recovery Time (tWR) 16T
Read To Read Delay (tRTR) Different Rank: 6T, Different DIMM: 6T
Read To Write Delay (tRTW) Same Rank: 10T, Different Rank: 11T, Different DIMM: 11T
Write To Read Delay (tWTR) Same Rank: 21T, Different Rank: 7T, Different DIMM: 7T, Same Bank Group: 8T, Diff. Bank Group: 3T
Write To Write Delay (tWTW) Different Rank: 8T, Different DIMM: 8T
Read To Precharge Delay (tRTP) 8T
Four Activate Window Delay (tFAW) 22T
Write CAS Latency (tWCL) 16T
Write CAS To CAS Delay (tCCDW) Same Bank Group: 6T, Diff. Bank Group: 4T
Additive Latency (tAL) 0T
CKE Min. Pulse Width (tCKE) 6T
Refresh Period (tREF) 28000T
Burst Length (BL) 8




Module Name Samsung M393A1K43BB1-CTD




Thanks in advance


----------



## BotSkill

Gen. said:


> My final system setup (stable in TM5 Extreme1, LinX 0.9.7, Karhu RAM Test 1.1.0.0). Now I'm waiting for a memory that cost me 72 euros (F4-3000C14D-16GVR).


What RAM kit are you using Gen. ?

Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 2 XL folosind Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

TESTing


10900k -SP82
M12E -BIOS 098
*
52|49 v/f -0.032 1.374 LL6
Gskill Royals F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
2x16gb 4133 17-17-17-37 2N 1.35v
*









literally a slap to 4dimm.. da bandwidth even higher.


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen

the 4kc17 dual rank are totally diff bdies. the subtimings are totally diff on 2133c15 jdec. heck this the first time i am seeing this. my friend ordered a 3200c14s same week as mine week 35.. also seeing weird stuff on amd. one thing.. these rams require very little voltages on da imc..

ppd 0 first time i am seeing it can boost read speeds.. its affecting stability slightly still in da process of learning this ram quirks

testing

10900k -SP81
M12E - Bios 098
*
52|49 v/f 1.374 @L6
GSKILL F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
2x16gb 4400 17-17-17-37-2N 1.45v
vccio 1.25 vcssa 1.2
*


----------



## Imprezzion

That so makes me wanna upgrade to a 10700K or 10900K..

My poor 9900K P0 after days and days of testing voltages, clocks, different BIOS versions and everything the poor thing just doesn't wanna do 2x16GB DR above 3900Mhz.. it ran 4200/4400 fine on 2x8GB SR with enough SA/IO volts but even 1.5v isn't going to make my IMC stable at 3900+.

I settled for a 3800Mhz divider with a slight BCLK OC of 104.1Mhz for 5.1Ghz core, 4.78Ghz cache and 3850Mhz memory as that was way more stable then 100Mhz BCLK with 3866 divider.

Timings are at 14-15-15-30-300-2T 32500 tREFI 12 tCWL tWR and tight secondary / tertiary timings. RTL IO manual as well at 56/56/57/57/6/6/7/7. Voltages are at 1,39v CPU (1.33v VR VOut load) 1.35v SA 1.30v IO 1.55v DRAM. Sticks run low 40c range fully loaded with a 140mm pointed at them.

It does great at these settings, passed HCI just fine 28GB load for well over 9 hours overnight with no errors.

AIDA is at 59.6 read 59.8 write 58.5 copy 37.0ns latency. Seems pretty good for only 3850Mhz.

Shame it won't do 1T stable lol. It will actually boot 1T just fine but it won't stabilize at any voltages. It does do 1T at 3600 14-14-14-28-280 but that costs me too much bandwidth.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> 
> the 4kc17 dual rank are totally diff bdies. the subtimings are totally diff on 2133c15 jdec. heck this the first time i am seeing this. my friend ordered a 3200c14s same week as mine week 35.. also seeing weird stuff on amd. one thing.. these rams require very little voltages on da imc..
> 
> ppd 0 first time i am seeing it can boost read speeds.. its affecting stability slightly still in da process of learning this ram quirks
> 
> testing
> 
> 10900k -SP81
> M12E - Bios 098
> *
> 52|49 v/f 1.374 @L6
> GSKILL F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
> 2x16gb 4400 17-17-17-37-2N 1.45v
> vccio 1.25 vcssa 1.2
> *


Nice find!

Looks very good, and THAT low vDram and vccsa


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> 
> the 4kc17 dual rank are totally diff bdies. the subtimings are totally diff on 2133c15 jdec. heck this the first time i am seeing this. my friend ordered a 3200c14s same week as mine week 35.. also seeing weird stuff on amd. one thing.. these rams require very little voltages on da imc..
> 
> ppd 0 first time i am seeing it can boost read speeds.. its affecting stability slightly still in da process of learning this ram quirks
> 
> testing
> 
> 10900k -SP81
> M12E - Bios 098
> *
> 52|49 v/f 1.374 @L6
> GSKILL F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
> 2x16gb 4400 17-17-17-37-2N 1.45v
> vccio 1.25 vcssa 1.2
> *



This might be the reason you didn't see too much boost in write.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This might be the reason you didn't see too much boost in write.


what talkin is da u. 

my 4533c17 kindda smacked your c16 on read/write/copy.. 

anyways @Nizzen another bat**** crazy
dis rams wait for it
do twr 8 trtp 4 @4400 .

da cons..
twcl. i couldnt do 4kc15 twcl 13 

4533c17 twcl cant do 15 

afaik dancorp ppl doing 4400c15. no idea how they did that. still got a lot to figure out

btw these are week 35.. literally made after i ordered it ..


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> what talkin is da u.
> 
> my 4533c17 kindda smacked your c16 on read/write/copy..
> 
> anyways @Nizzen another bat**** crazy
> dis rams wait for it
> do twr 8 trtp 4 @4400 .
> 
> da cons..
> twcl. i couldnt do 4kc15 twcl 13
> 
> 4533c17 twcl cant do 15
> 
> afaik dancorp ppl doing 4400c15. no idea how they did that. still got a lot to figure out
> 
> btw these are week 35.. literally made after i ordered it ..


Ah those timings were from mine...congrats on the achieves btw 

I meant, you can use MemTweak It to check the "hidden" timings. Under Asus default, write takes almost 2x time to enter PDM compared to read, so decrease the ppd might not be so obvious on write perf.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Ah those timings were from mine...congrats on the achieves btw
> 
> I meant, you can use MemTweak It to check the "hidden" timings. Under Asus default, write takes almost 2x time to enter PDM compared to read, so decrease the ppd might not be so obvious on write perf.


ppd increase was on read. there was nvr a gain thatcwas noticeble for ppd 0 on bandwidth. it was in pure latency and if any it will be at copy. check page 72 of intel spec. theres 4 states. 

but these dual ranks do.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> ppd increase was on read. there was nvr a gain thatcwas noticeble for ppd 0 on bandwidth. it was in pure latency and if any it will be at copy. check page 72 of intel spec. theres 4 states.
> 
> but these dual ranks do.


Yeah if you observed some boost in read but not write when changing ppd, it might be caused by some difference between the pd related r/w timings.

I have tried ppd=0 and 1 before, there was no difference in aida r/w for dr.


----------



## munternet

Anyone having any luck with 2*16GB 1T?
Trying 4000c17 but it doesn't like TM5. Not sure if it's worth pursuing for the read/write speeds...


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> Anyone having any luck with 2*16GB 1T?
> Trying 4000c17 but it doesn't like TM5. Not sure if it's worth pursuing for the read/write speeds...


i cannot do 1T. asus auto rtl training in mode 2 seems to be going bonkers. might try later manually setting. 

but tm5/hci all no issue atm up to 4400c17..

but i am settling for daily 4266c17 @1.4v the rated vdimm

they get pretty warm on long runs


----------



## munternet

cstkl1 said:


> i cannot do 1T. asus auto rtl training in mode 2 seems to be going bonkers. might try later manually setting.
> 
> but tm5/hci all no issue atm up to 4400c17..
> 
> but i am settling for daily 4266c17 @1.4v the rated vdimm
> 
> they get pretty warm on long runs


Nice :thumb:
I have been running 4200c17 but looking at going to 4300c17 as daily as it is still at the bottom of the power curve although I will have to go over 1.4v sa


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> Nice :thumb:
> I have been running 4200c17 but looking at going to 4300c17 as daily as it is still at the bottom of the power curve although I will have to go over 1.4v sa


whats your manufactoring week??
its the 3rd and 4th digit like mine is 2035
week 35. 

afaik da current ones which u can even get on 3200c14.. they dont need much vccio/vcssa. testex at 52/49 above dat i dont know.


----------



## munternet

cstkl1 said:


> whats your manufactoring week??
> its the 3rd and 4th digit like mine is 2035
> week 35.
> 
> afaik da current ones which u can even get on 3200c14.. they dont need much vccio/vcssa. testex at 52/49 above dat i dont know.


These are my skins
Currently 4200c17, io and sa 1.35v, vdimm 1.45v, 52/49 vcore 1.38v L6


----------



## Betroz

Just to confirm what Nizzen said to me about the heatspreader on the Trident Z being better than Ripjaws V? Is it worth the ~40 Euro price difference? I really don't need RGB...even though I know I can turn if off in software. Deciding between these three kits :

- F4-4000C17D-32GVKB (G.SKILL Ripjaws V)
- F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB (G.Skill TridentZ RGB)
- F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK(G.Skill TridentZ non-RGB)

The 4000C17 kits should be better than the last 4000C19 kit, but isn't it really mostly luck in the silicon lottery anyways?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Just to confirm what Nizzen said to me about the heatspreader on the Trident Z being better than Ripjaws V? Is it worth the ~40 Euro price difference? I really don't need RGB...even though I know I can turn if off in software. Deciding between these three kits :
> 
> - F4-4000C17D-32GVKB (G.SKILL Ripjaws V)
> - F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB (G.Skill TridentZ RGB)
> - F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK(G.Skill TridentZ non-RGB)
> 
> The 4000C17 kits should be better than the last 4000C19 kit, but isn't it really mostly luck in the silicon lottery anyways?


yes. da royals are better build as well. 
i had ripjaws before.. their heatspreader pretty thin 

tridents are ok (ok only.. not comparable to dom plats)
da royals i thought they were da same but nope. they are better build. thicker alu.. maybe because of that plating. 

its not about better. they are diff. and mine feels like its been binned for daisy chain.


----------



## munternet

I would go the F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB (G.Skill TridentZ RGB) definitely because I have had a bad experience buying the non RGB ram.
I think non RGB sits around longer before being sold so you have less chance of getting the newest ram but the RGB stuff flies off the shelf.
Are you buying online or can you check the date first?


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> yes. da royals are better build as well.
> i had ripjaws before.. their heatspreader pretty thin
> 
> tridents are ok (ok only.. not comparable to dom plats)
> da royals i thought they were da same but nope. they are better build. thicker alu.. maybe because of that plating.
> 
> its not about better. they are diff. and mine feels like its been binned for daisy chain.


Over at memoryc.com the 4000C17 Royal is 72 Euro more expensive than the Ripjaws V... That is a big difference! The heatspreader cannot be THAT much better...or better binned b-dies for that matter. Surely not?


----------



## Betroz

munternet;28592866Are you buying online or can you check the date first?[/QUOTE said:


> Online from memoryc.com :
> https://www.memoryc.com/32006-32gb-...32000-cl17-1-40v-dual-channel-kit-2x16gb.html
> https://www.memoryc.com/memory/f4-4000c17d-32gvkb.html
> https://www.memoryc.com/32100-32gb-...2000-cl17-1-40v-dual-channel-kit-2x-16gb.html


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> I would go the F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB (G.Skill TridentZ RGB) definitely because I have had a bad experience buying the non RGB ram.
> I think non RGB sits around longer before being sold so you have less chance of getting the newest ram but the RGB stuff flies off the shelf.
> Are you buying online or can you check the date first?


remember gskill launched these new ones specifically for intel z490.

their behavior are totally different. they dont like low twcl for starters which will be a problem for low tcl. need to deep dive and check which setting dat uses twcl as a base is having the issue

but on straight 17 a no brainer. 

i also suspect the single rank 4400c16 which uses odd timings 16-19-19-39 is the same samsung chip.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Over at memoryc.com the 4000C17 Royal is 72 Euro more expensive than the Ripjaws V... That is a big difference! The heatspreader cannot be THAT much better...or better binned b-dies for that matter. Surely not?


errr no comment. everything here is expensive.. usd 72 atm.. dats just lunch money for fam on a norm day.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> errr no comment. everything here is expensive.. usd 72 atm.. dats just lunch money for fam on a norm day.


I have the money. My point being if the heatspreader is that much better. Are we talking 3C difference or 10C? I don't expect you to answer that completely


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> I have the money. My point being if the heatspreader is that much better. Are we talking 3C difference or 10C? I don't expect you to answer that completely


no idea. these are my first royals as well. also dual rank.. which is warmer. 

these are my first time in 17 years i have gone two dimm and dual rank at that. 

but to compare. there was one dude a month ago complained the 4kc19s ran 50c+ when he was gaming @1.35v.. think it was ripjaws. 

all i can contribute is.. if u gonna wc.. go ripjaws. 
they dont have fins. ripjaws are very cheaply made.

my comp runs in stealth mode. with oled turned off. complete black. but i have to admit the royals are really good looking higher quality heatspreaders than the norm trident z/trident z rgb.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1;28592926but to compare. there was one dude a month ago complained the 4kc19s ran 50c+ when he was gaming @1.35v.. think it was ripjaws.[/QUOTE said:


> Thanx. So nothing has changed in the last two years. In another PC here I have the old 3200C14 TridentZ 2 x 16GB kit. Made in 2018. They run hot even at 3600C15 1.40v...


----------



## munternet

cstkl1 said:


> remember gskill launched these new ones specifically for intel z490.
> 
> their behavior are totally different. they dont like low twcl for starters which will be a problem for low tcl. need to deep dive and check which setting dat uses twcl as a base is having the issue
> 
> but on straight 17 a no brainer.
> 
> i also suspect the single rank 4400c16 which uses odd timings 16-19-19-39 is the same samsung chip.


Cheers for the info :thumb:
Everything is always changing


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> Thanx. So nothing has changed in the last two years. In another PC here I have the old 3200C14 TridentZ 2 x 16GB kit. Made in 2018. They run hot even at 3600C15 1.40v...


always depends on airflow in the case, you can get any 1.35V kit to 50C+ in a case with no good airflow and a decent sustained load, even under "just" gaming

at the end of the day, more metal just takes longer to heat up or cool down. surface area is what matters for actual sustained temps, like after 2 hours of gaming, and when it comes to that, I'd take pure metal ripjaws over tridentz with plastic top and LEDs giving off even more heat. 

if you are really pushing your sticks to the edge of stability with temps, you will have to put a fan pointing at the sticks anyways, which will likely look ugly.
or get a water cooling block for the sticks, which is like extra 70 bucks
or get the better bin (royals) that requires less voltage, which is like extra 70 bucks

tl;dr heat spreader doesn't really matter imho, just get the better bin and more recent pcb


----------



## dante`afk

Sadly I have to get rid of my 16gb DDR4700 because of VMware usage, running out of ram.

Looking for a good 32 or 64GB kit.

Does anyone have any recommendation with good OC Results?


----------



## skullbringer

dante`afk said:


> Sadly I have to get rid of my 16gb DDR4700 because of VMware usage, running out of ram.
> 
> Looking for a good 32 or 64GB kit.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendation with good OC Results?


2x 16GB 3200 C14 G.Skill TridentZ Neo. Relatively cheap, guaranteed b-die bin, they move fast so you have good change of latest PCB revision, have mine running at 4400 C16-16-16-32 2T 1.53V

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...oDDR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> always depends on airflow in the case, you can get any 1.35V kit to 50C+ in a case with no good airflow and a decent sustained load, even under "just" gaming


My old TridentZ 3200C14 have been tested in 3 different cases with both average and good airflow - they run hot anyways. Best case scenario was 50C under load. Worst case scenario was high 50's. That cannot just be from poor heatspreaders or case airflow.

In my 10900K computer I have a 140mm fan ontop of my 4400C19 Vipers anyway, and plan to use the same fan on the new memory. That fan also cools my M.2 SSDs in that Dimm.2 module on the Apex board.

Yes the 4000C17 Royals are probably the best...but 70 Euro more.


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> My old TridentZ 3200C14 have been tested in 3 different cases with both average and good airflow - they run hot anyways. Best case scenario was 50C under load. Worst case scenario was high 50's. That cannot just be from poor heatspreaders or case airflow.
> 
> In my 10900K computer I have a 140mm fan ontop of my 4400C19 Vipers anyway, and plan to use the same fan on the new memory. That fan also cools my M.2 SSDs in that Dimm.2 module on the Apex board.
> 
> Yes the 4000C17 Royals are probably the best...but 70 Euro more.


If you want the truly best bins, you gotta get the Royals, but if you point a fan at the dimms anyways get good Ripjaws or TridentZ, they just might need a bit more voltage.

I mean look at my signature


----------



## dante`afk

skullbringer said:


> 2x 16GB 3200 C14 G.Skill TridentZ Neo. Relatively cheap, guaranteed b-die bin, they move fast so you have good change of latest PCB revision, have mine running at 4400 C16-16-16-32 2T 1.53V
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...oDDR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB



perfect thx bro.

could you give me your ram settings from the bios?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> remember gskill launched these new ones specifically for intel z490.
> 
> their behavior are totally different. they dont like low twcl for starters which will be a problem for low tcl. need to deep dive and check which setting dat uses twcl as a base is having the issue
> 
> but on straight 17 a no brainer.
> 
> i also suspect the single rank 4400c16 which uses odd timings 16-19-19-39 is the same samsung chip.


tCWL is linked with tRDWR. Rise tRDWR if you want to further lower your tCWL.

If your ram can run tRDWR 10 at 4500, tCL=17, tCWL=16, tRDWR=11, the real tRDWR is 10, then your ram will be stable. If tCL=17, tCWL=14, tRDWR=11, the real tRDWR is 8, which will be messed up.


The best tRDWR real value Ive seen for dual rank bdie is 9 at 4700.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> tCWL is linked with tRDWR. Rise tRDWR if you want to further lower your tCWL.
> 
> If your ram can run tRDWR 10 at 4500, tCL=17, tCWL=16, tRDWR=11, the real tRDWR is 10, then your ram will be stable. If tCL=17, tCWL=14, tRDWR=11, the real tRDWR is 8, which will be messed up.
> 
> 
> The best tRDWR real value Ive seen for dual rank bdie is 9 at 4700.


Thats a first. Asrock showed some weird formula for it.
I suppose this is on _sg/dg. Whats the formula btw.. 

Odd is on 4dimm tcl17,twcl 15 will do twrdr 10 but 2dimm is 11. Found dat very odd. 

Afaik formula is 
Trdwr_sg=tcl-tcwl+tccd+twpre+max(trwsr,odt (r,w,sr))

So curious where u getting da simplified reasoning.


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> If you want the truly best bins, you gotta get the Royals


Just ordered the Royals Gold 32G 4000C17 kit. If they suck, I blame you


----------



## Gen.

I passed the test, who cares, and no, I'm not in the north. Houses 22 degrees Celsius. I should get 9900KF one of these days if I sell my 8700K. I will aim for 31 ns.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> Thats a first. Asrock showed some weird formula for it.
> I suppose this is on _sg/dg. Whats the formula btw..
> 
> Odd is on 4dimm tcl17,twcl 15 will do twrdr 10 but 2dimm is 11. Found dat very odd.
> 
> Afaik formula is
> Trdwr_sg=tcl-tcwl+tccd+twpre+max(trwsr,odt (r,w,sr))
> 
> So curious where u getting da simplified reasoning.


From MSI. The entered value is not the real executed value, should be skewed. Can ask toppc (林源銘) for more details.


----------



## cstkl1

double post


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> From MSI. The entered value is not the real executed value, should be skewed. Can ask toppc (林源銘) for more details.


so explain me dis..

x299 4kc17 twcl 9 uses trdwr 15.. thats the default jdec without turn around optimization.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Just ordered the Royals Gold 32G 4000C17 kit. If they suck, I blame you


golds not as good.. they transfer performance to bling...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> so explain me dis..
> 
> x299 4kc17 twcl 9 uses trdwr 15.. thats the default jdec without turn around optimization.


jedec 4000?


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> golds not as good.. they transfer performance to bling...


It's frickin gold-looking paint on an aluminium heatspreader, and not black paint as the regular TridentZ. Prove me wrong please.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> It's frickin gold-looking paint on an aluminium heatspreader, and not black paint as the regular TridentZ. Prove me wrong please.


based on da weight at thickness its some kind of plating. 

also my new daily [email protected] running hci overnight now. 

cl17 was not worth the extra slight bump in copy and slightly lower latency.. 36.6 vs 38...


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> jedec 4000?


asus x299 third timings. either it uses turnwround optimization or it runs at default jdec timings for your ram. in dis case 2133c15.. 

when u disable turn around optimization .. only tccd can be changed. the rest is fixed. 

didnt u play with asus x299??

anyway so 4x8gb 4kc17 1T 1.3v twcl 9 trdwr 15
vccio/vcssa default 0.95/0.84 if i remember correctly. 

so does that fits into dat theory..


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> based on da weight at thickness its some kind of plating.


So you have these yourself? Based on the images of regular TridentZ and Royal, they seem to have the same thickness to me, just different color and RGB looks. I will be using my 140mm fan on them anyways. Like skullbringer said, the Royals are likely to be better binned.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> asus x299 third timings. either it uses turnwround optimization or it runs at default jdec timings for your ram. in dis case 2133c15..
> 
> when u disable turn around optimization .. only tccd can be changed. the rest is fixed.
> 
> didnt u play with asus x299??
> 
> anyway so 4x8gb 4kc17 1T 1.3v twcl 9 trdwr 15
> vccio/vcssa default 0.95/0.84 if i remember correctly.
> 
> so does that fits into dat theory..


Umm if that was the story your ram was actually running tRDWR at 15-17+9=7, 3.5ns, which is really good. You can upscale the tRDWR if you try higher clocks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> So you have these yourself? Based on the images of regular TridentZ and Royal, they seem to have the same thickness to me, just different color and RGB looks. I will be using my 140mm fan on them anyways. Like skullbringer said, the Royals are likely to be better binned.


I have all 3 of them. Actually the trident Neo has the best spreader IMO. Royal has very thick paint Idk if that blocks some heat from spreading.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Just ordered the Royals Gold 32G 4000C17 kit. If they suck, I blame you


Good luck bud :thumb:


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Royal has very thick paint Idk if that blocks some heat from spreading.


Bad enough that I should cancel my order?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Bad enough that I should cancel my order?


Not that bad, can still enjoy it  Neo does not have 4000C17 so you have to choose between TZ and TR. Build quality of TZ is worse than TR, loose RGB stripes, etc.

My 4000C17-32GTRGB is running at 1.6V now, with a 6cm fan on it, never reached higher than 50C.


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> I passed the test, who cares, and no, I'm not in the north. Houses 22 degrees Celsius. I should get 9900KF one of these days if I sell my 8700K. I will aim for 31 ns.


What did you think about this new Apex XI bios? Better than 1502 in RAM OC?


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Not that bad, can still enjoy it  Neo does not have 4000C17 so you have to choose between TZ and TR. Build quality of TZ is worse than TR, loose RGB stripes, etc.
> 
> My 4000C17-32GTRGB is running at 1.6V now, with a 6mm fan on it, never reached higher than 50C.


Ok thanx. As I mentioned, I will have a 1000+ rpm 140mm fan directly ontop of them, so should be good. These Royal sticks cannot have worse heatspreaders than my current Patriot Vipers...
If I can get 4266+ stable with reasonable tight timings, that will be good enough


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Ok thanx. As I mentioned, I will have a 1000+ rpm 140mm fan directly ontop of them, so should be good. These Royal sticks cannot have worse heatspreaders than my current Patriot Vipers...
> If I can get 4266+ stable with reasonable tight timings, that will be good enough


No problem. The baseline is 4400 16-17-35 290 1.55V on M12A.


----------



## Gen.

ViTosS said:


> What did you think about this new Apex XI bios? Better than 1502 in RAM OC?


Now I have 1602, before that 1502, I did not see the difference


----------



## Agent-A01

cstkl1 said:


> TESTing
> 
> 
> 10900k -SP82
> M12E -BIOS 098
> *
> 52|49 v/f -0.032 1.374 LL6
> Gskill Royals F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
> 2x16gb 4133 17-17-17-37 2N 1.35v
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> literally a slap to 4dimm.. da bandwidth even higher.


Just got a similar kit today. Think it's the same one in fact.

After some quick testing i got [email protected] 2N @ 1.46v.

Seems pretty good overall.. Anything else I should tweak?

I should probably do RTL/IOLs. I notice your IOLs are much lower.


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> Just got a similar kit today. Think it's the same one in fact.
> 
> After some quick testing i got [email protected] 2N @ 1.46v.
> 
> Seems pretty good overall.. Anything else I should tweak?
> 
> I should probably do RTL/IOLs. I notice your IOLs are much lower.


Not sure yet. Those rtls is the board set not me.

Tcl 15 for 4133 should be 58/59 7,7 btw


----------



## Agent-A01

cstkl1 said:


> Not sure yet. Those rtls is the board set not me.
> 
> Tcl 15 for 4133 should be 58/59 7,7 btw


For which values?
Just using auto for now

Edit 58/59 does not post, 59/61 does. I am using the offset set to 16 to get those values.

For IOLs, i cannot go less than 12,12,13,13. Otherwise no post.

Am i missing something that would prevent me from going lower?

I also assume D0 values do not matter here?

What Ref cycle for 2 and 4 do you have set? Mine is set to 2= 416 and 4=256.


BTW I wonder why the closest dimm slots to CPU are not the recommended setup, logically it makes sense to be closer.


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> For which values?
> Just using auto for now
> 
> Edit 58/59 does not post, 59/61 does. I am using the offset set to 16 to get those values.
> 
> For IOLs, i cannot go less than 12,12,13,13. Otherwise no post.
> 
> Am i missing something that would prevent me from going lower?
> 
> I also assume D0 values do not matter here?
> 
> What Ref cycle for 2 and 4 do you have set? Mine is set to 2= 416 and 4=256.
> 
> 
> BTW I wonder why the closest dimm slots to CPU are not the recommended setup, logically it makes sense to be closer.


dont use offset. btw until now i am still fast booting lol. cause it just works. 

i cant do [email protected] didnt test higher. 
leaving margins so just gonna do 1.35/1.4/1.45..
1.5.. da temps will hit 50c if i prime fft112.. hmm

you are doing rtl wrongly btw . just let da board set its own. 

7 years is it.. since z87 extreme launched and ppl still getting rtl wrongly because of all da false guides out there. 

theres a sweet spot current on vccio/vcssa for 1.45. 1.5v needs diff sets so will test higher later when its raining etc. cause i use fft112 to confirm vccio/vcssa


----------



## SoldierRBT

Is 2x16GB 4400MHz 17-18-18 1.45v daily use possible on the Z490 Apex? May grab a 3200C14 kit


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Is 2x16GB 4400MHz 17-18-18 1.45v daily use possible on the Z490 Apex? May grab a 3200C14 kit


17-17-17-37.. yes. just go grab da new royals 4kc17

damcorp doing [email protected] btw.


----------



## Agent-A01

cstkl1 said:


> dont use offset. btw until now i am still fast booting lol. cause it just works.
> 
> i cant do [email protected] didnt test higher.
> leaving margins so just gonna do 1.35/1.4/1.45..
> 1.5.. da temps will hit 50c if i prime fft112.. hmm
> 
> you are doing rtl wrongly btw . just let da board set its own.
> 
> 7 years is it.. since z87 extreme launched and ppl still getting rtl wrongly because of all da false guides out there.
> 
> theres a sweet spot current on vccio/vcssa for 1.45. 1.5v needs diff sets so will test higher later when its raining etc. cause i use fft112 to confirm vccio/vcssa


What's wrong with the offset way? I assume offset only changes those timings.

And RTL at default is not good. There is no incorrect way of setting it.
After 59/61 it defaults to 12 12 13 13 for IOLs


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> For which values?
> Just using auto for now
> 
> Edit 58/59 does not post, 59/61 does. I am using the offset set to 16 to get those values.
> 
> For IOLs, i cannot go less than 12,12,13,13. Otherwise no post.
> 
> Am i missing something that would prevent me from going lower?
> 
> I also assume D0 values do not matter here?
> 
> What Ref cycle for 2 and 4 do you have set? Mine is set to 2= 416 and 4=256.
> 
> 
> BTW I wonder why the closest dimm slots to CPU are not the recommended setup, logically it makes sense to be closer.


hold on found some crazy thing dis ram did

once in a blue moon it does rtl pairing with iol that it shouldnt do

example 4133 cl 16 should be either 60/61 6,6 or 61,62 7,7

it did 60,61,7,7 passed tm5, reboot hang..

ss incoming. weird stuff.


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> What's wrong with the offset way? I assume offset only changes those timings.
> 
> And RTL at default is not good. There is no incorrect way of setting it.
> After 59/61 it defaults to 12 12 13 13 for IOLs


dats the sad part. ppl are truly misinformed.


----------



## Agent-A01

cstkl1 said:


> dats the sad part. ppl are truly misinformed.


Maybe add something with value instead of useless remarks.

That is the way to do it, pointed out by Alex-Ro from ASUS.



> All set and go the usual RTL/IOL for this will be 44/45/6/6 In order to keep this values and avoid bad training you might want to set RTL Initial Value to lowest value that can boot and you will be good.
> 
> If you are not happy you can improve this.How ? Move from standard IO Latency offset of 21/21 one value higher.Apply and reboot.You will notice tighter RTL/IO.Repeat this until you fail to POST.Go back one step and you have the tightets RTL/IOL combination that your system can handle at this scenario.In my case : 43/44/1/1 .
> 
> Now all you have to do is type manually the values and you are good to bench.


If you don't agree, explain why. 
None of your respondes added anything meaningful and instead came off as condescending.


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> Maybe add something with value instead of useless remarks.
> 
> That is the way to do it, pointed out by Alex-Ro from ASUS.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't agree, explain why.
> None of your respondes added anything meaningful and instead came off as condescending.


because shamino wrote a guide that everybody doesnt give a **** about when he first introduced this setting. 

not some alex-ro

this was way back in ddr3. 

dats y i am *****y and a ass. i admit that. to put a guide i need to do a video. but to what end bro?? its alot of work with capture card etc. cause you need to see the training .. i tried explaining to one dude via whatsapp. he didnt get it. cause its easier when you are doing in at da bios. 

anyway

testing should be my daily. its still fast-booting . 

10900k - SP81
M12E -Bios 098
*
51|48 v/f 1.274 LL6
G.Skill Royal F4-4000C17-32GTRSB
2x16gb 4400 [email protected]
vcssa/vccio - 1.3/1.3
*


----------



## Agent-A01

cstkl1 said:


> because shamino wrote a guide that everybody doesnt give a **** about when he first introduced this setting.
> 
> not some alex-ro
> 
> this was way back in ddr3.
> 
> dats y i am *****y and a ass. i admit that. to put a guide i need to do a video. but to what end bro?? its alot of work with capture card etc. cause you need to see the training .. i tried explaining to one dude via whatsapp. he didnt get it. cause its easier when you are doing in at da bios.


Alex isn't a nobody, guess anyone you don't know is worthless.. lol

If you don't want to help others that's fine, but being an ass towards others because of one dude you tried helping isn't an excuse.

Anyways moving on.


----------



## Agent-A01

2x16GB is much easier than 4x8 for OC.

Took way less time to play with, definitely worth going to 2 dimm setups on daisy chain.
I'm sure 4x8 would be good on MSI boards that are t-topology.
Which btw If anyone wants to buy my 3200CL14-14 kit I'd be happy to part with it.

As for my settings. 1.46v for dram

Only using 1.1 vccio and 1.2 VCCSA, I could probably tune it a little less but these voltages are safe. 
I want to keep them low and 4400 takes a significant amount more voltage.

Pretty happy with timings and latency. Would like to see tWR less than 11 but it doesn't like posting with less than that.


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> Alex isn't a nobody, guess anyone you don't know is worthless.. lol
> 
> If you don't want to help others that's fine, but being an ass towards others because of one dude you tried helping isn't an excuse.
> 
> Anyways moving on.


you really dont know anything... u just implied shamino is nobody eventhough he shared a 30-40 page pdf when he first started rtl init etc..
but hey go and put ppl u think on a pedestal...ppl who ignored his guides etc... and now its veered so far that its already a joke..
so many ppl putting up rtl guides.. good for
u .

its amazing that ppl can run twtr_s = 0 in asus. amazing.


----------



## Imprezzion

I always set my RTL to Auto Enhanced on my board as it usually trains lower and tighter then manually setting them.

If I do manually set them I use the method of setting Initials as low as they go to boot (59/59/1/1) successfully and then tweak offsets (23) higher to drop them further. This results in exactly the same actual RTL/IO of 56/56/57/57/6/6/7/7 as Auto Enhanced does on 63/63/13/13 so I just leave them on that.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> I always set my RTL to Auto Enhanced on my board as it usually trains lower and tighter then manually setting them.
> 
> If I do manually set them I use the method of setting Initials as low as they go to boot (59/59/1/1) successfully and then tweak offsets (23) higher to drop them further. This results in exactly the same actual RTL/IO of 56/56/57/57/6/6/7/7 as Auto Enhanced does on 63/63/13/13 so I just leave them on that.


msi right. msi has a good bios algo. thats flexible. 

asus actually does the same thing in mode 2. 
but mode 2 uses weird pairings for some timings. 
but much easier on 1T

da dual rank ones.. hmm better key them. they do bat **** crazy impossible timings on asus sometimes if u let the board tighten.

also dual rank.. tm5 real failure. its good enough only for vdimm. vccio/vcssa da fft112 rules them all. hci killin me on timings.

these rams its as if gskill binned then on asus
c15 to c18 scalings pretty good up to 4400
c14 dis da problem child atm. technically it should do 4kc14 @1.5v. been maintaining the same main/sub except twcl so far.. 
y tcl 17 good with twcl 15.. y others all prefer one less..???

lots of questions. 

got a feeling can run 64gb 4400

cant get them to run 4600.. i am guessing da bandwidth hitting 72k+ is da issue..4533 da max trained but has other issues

now should i get a 3090 or 3080.. its so obvious a 3080ti is incoming that will cost less and do almost what a 3090 can do.


----------



## Imprezzion

cstkl1 said:


> msi right. msi has a good bios algo. thats flexible.
> 
> asus actually does the same thing in mode 2.
> but mode 2 uses weird pairings for some timings.
> but much easier on 1T
> 
> da dual rank ones.. hmm better key them. they do bat **** crazy impossible timings on asus sometimes if u let the board tighten.
> 
> also dual rank.. tm5 real failure. its good enough only for vdimm. vccio/vcssa da fft112 rules them all. hci killin me on timings.
> 
> these rams its as if gskill binned then on asus
> c15 to c18 scalings pretty good up to 4400
> c14 dis da problem child atm. technically it should do 4kc14 @1.5v. been maintaining the same main/sub except twcl so far..
> y tcl 17 good with twcl 15.. y others all prefer one less..???
> 
> lots of questions.
> 
> got a feeling can run 64gb 4400
> 
> cant get them to run 4600.. i am guessing da bandwidth hitting 72k+ is da issue..4533 da max trained but has other issues
> 
> now should i get a 3090 or 3080.. its so obvious a 3080ti is incoming that will cost less and do almost what a 3090 can do.


Yeah it's a Z390 Ace from MSI. Only downside is the fact my 9900K P0 has a bad IMC that will do 4400 fine in SR but won't go over 3866 on DR 16GB DIMM's.
Still, 3850 (3800 with a bit of bclk added) on 14-15-15-30-300-2T does fine with 1.35v SA 1.30v IO 1.55v DRAM and is stable in TM5 and HCI overnight with 59k bandwidth and 37.0ns latency with tWR 12 tCWL 12 so I'll settle here until Intel comes with a PCI-E 4.0 compatible chipset.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> also dual rank.. tm5 real failure. its good enough only for vdimm.
> cant get them to run 4600.. i am guessing da bandwidth hitting 72k+ is da issue..4533 da max trained but has other issues


What do you mean TM5 fails with dual rank memory...?
Is the 4k17 Royals capable of 4533 you say? At 19-19-19-39 then or tighter?


----------



## Agent-A01

cstkl1 said:


> you really dont know anything... u just implied shamino is nobody eventhough he shared a 30-40 page pdf when he first started rtl init etc..
> but hey go and put ppl u think on a pedestal...ppl who ignored his guides etc... and now its veered so far that its already a joke..
> so many ppl putting up rtl guides.. good for
> u .
> 
> its amazing that ppl can run twtr_s = 0 in asus. amazing.


I know exactly who shamino is. I didn't mention a word about him.
alex is part of the rog team. 

Besides the extremely poor grammar and clear lack of knowledge you are making yourself look less educated with each post..

I suggest you do some research before insulting others and acting like an asshat.
I'm going to ignore you and i suggest you do the same.


----------



## Gen.

Guys, what are you arguing about again?  Ask, I will answer. By the way, how many of you came to ru overclockers?


----------



## SunnyStefan

Gen. said:


> Guys, what are you arguing about again?  Ask, I will answer. By the way, how many of you came to ru overclockers?


cstkl1 keeps condescendingly insinuating that users are dumb for not knowing how to "properly" set RTLs, this is the second or third time I've personally noticed him doing so at least. Instead of taking 15 minutes of his time and sharing his preferred method of tuning this aspect of RAM, cstkl1 has the audacity to claim it's _somehow_ _impossible _for him to outline his process in a straight forward step-by-step numbered guide .

Everyone here is interested in the same thing, we want to make our RAM go faster while still maintaining overall system stability. It's in the community's best interest to *share *knowledge about how to better tune these timings. Take for instance this guy on Reddit who recently shared his findings about TXP and PPD. Very few people knew about this, and now that it's widely understood and the latency gains seem to be consistent, motherboard manufacturers like Asus (and maybe MSI?) have actually added direct access to this timing via BIOS updates.

If Gen., cstkl1, or anyone else has any insight into properly tightening RTL and/or IOL timings that goes beyond [email protected]'s guide I'm sure everyone here would very appreciative of their advice.


----------



## nick name

Anyone else worried about how the new 3080 or 3090 Founders cards are going to **** with RAM overclocks? Those cards look like they're gonna cook RAM.


----------



## metalspider

nick name said:


> Anyone else worried about how the new 3080 or 3090 Founders cards are going to **** with RAM overclocks? Those cards look like they're gonna cook RAM.


unless you have a blower style cooler or water cool your gpu the heat from the gpu already screws with ram.if anything this will help the hot air move out of the case faster.at least i hope so.
and theses new gpus are half blower half normal heatsink.but the aib cards wont be so different then normal.their holes to the ram area are smaller in some previews.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> What do you mean TM5 fails with dual rank memory...?
> Is the 4k17 Royals capable of 4533 you say? At 19-19-19-39 then or tighter?


 @Agent-A01
kids nowadays. was there when alex got his first ram oc addict as a kid and came into forums. 

guides like dat is a insult to ppl who started rtl during ddr3.. 

it all started with elpida hyper when
some people they are born later and think they know it all. 

go do some fact check on da first time rtl prop up and see who was the guy that was using it..

next thing you gonna prop up dinos guide as his how to live guide.. all are irrelevant ppl. you better learn your facts.

already said its wrong which you are still doing it wrong based on your screenshots but stubbornly want to follow it. 

is it because indirectly when i said wrong hence you felt insulted so you are using alex as a shield for argument. seems like it. 

to be frank i rate nizzen and esenel and oldfatsheep words more relevant. 

anyways
@Betroz
scaling on cl15,16,17,18,19 seems ok but c14 after 3600 pretty bad

4500-4533 its doable but the vccio/vcssa for proper trained rtl jump to 1.45 based the same set of subs i have been using . maybe need to loosen..

dual ranks can give alot of fake stability. with daisy its even better at faking dis. already saw dis when i was doing da 128gb 4kc18 3 years back..
hci will find it quick. there was some settings tm5 could pass 1 hr but hci failed in 10%.. even karhu 7%.. .. vdimm is fine for tm5.. but definitely not vccio/vcssa.
so far tested
4400
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

bench test
[email protected], [email protected]
its crazy right..


10900k - SP81
M12E - 098

*
51|48 v/f 1.274 L6
GSKILL Royals F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
2x8gb 4400 [email protected] 
vccio/vcssa 1.25|1.25









*

now da hard part fft112... dual ranks passes my initial test easier but fails harder ones.. got to figure this out. single rank wasnt this hard but training wise duals are better. still fast booting all da training ya. dats how insane dis kits are..


----------



## cstkl1

SunnyStefan said:


> cstkl1 keeps condescendingly insinuating that users are dumb for not knowing how to "properly" set RTLs, this is the second or third time I've personally noticed him doing so at least. Instead of taking 15 minutes of his time and sharing his preferred method of tuning this aspect of RAM, cstkl1 has the audacity to claim it's _somehow_ _impossible _for him to outline his process in a straight forward step-by-step numbered guide .
> 
> Everyone here is interested in the same thing, we want to make our RAM go faster while still maintaining overall system stability. It's in the community's best interest to *share *knowledge about how to better tune these timings. Take for instance this guy on Reddit who recently shared his findings about TXP and PPD. Very few people knew about this, and now that it's widely understood and the latency gains seem to be consistent, motherboard manufacturers like Asus (and maybe MSI?) have actually added direct access to this timing via BIOS updates.
> 
> If Gen., cstkl1, or anyone else has any insight into properly tightening RTL and/or IOL timings that goes beyond [email protected]'s guide I'm sure everyone here would very appreciative of their advice.


another dude who indirectly felt hurt but now stating something i nvr said.. users are dumb.. as a shield..

and i mentioned many times who gave da init guide and not hard to find. 

but everybody ignores it. 

dont forget about dat. also its always in to how asus uses it. 

and yes a video is needed. i already tried explaining to two ppl .. one lengthy 1hr conversation and it didnt take. ppl need to see the training to understand it. best is with another hidden option rtl guardband

btw ppd 0.. seems to affect gaming atleast for me. its throwing some weird lag. could be with da nic .. or eac kernel malware da game uses..
vermintide 2..
something off with it putting aside screenshot burst.
also felt gsync was off.. either dat or i am getting old.. 
intel spec page 72.. is just putting it at 0 da correct way?? read there.. states the best performance etc is something else.


----------



## nick name

cstkl1 said:


> another dude who indirectly felt hurt but now stating something i nvr said.. users are dumb.. as a shield..
> 
> and i mentioned many times who gave da init guide and not hard to find.
> 
> but everybody ignores it.
> 
> dont forget about dat. also its always in to how asus uses it.
> 
> and yes a video is needed. i already tried explaining to two ppl .. one lengthy 1hr conversation and it didnt take. ppl need to see the training to understand it. best is with another hidden option rtl guardband
> 
> btw ppd 0.. seems to affect gaming atleast for me. its throwing some weird lag. could be with da nic .. or eac kernel malware da game uses..
> vermintide 2..
> something off with it putting aside screenshot burst.
> also felt gsync was off.. either dat or i am getting old..
> intel spec page 72.. is just putting it at 0 da correct way?? read there.. states the best performance etc is something else.



The and That. Don't type in vernacular. Unless you're a novelist -- it's idiotic.


----------



## ducegt

Let's please be nice to each other and not type like 12 year old girls 

I'm going to order a rig for a friend this week with an Apex XII and 2x16GB. The Royal 4000CL17 kit is out of a stock and if that doesn't change soon I'll just order the 4000CL19. G.Skill does have a 4000CL16 on their website now too https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL16-19-19-39-1.40V32GB-(2x16GB)

Also frustrating the 10900K is out of a stock and may roll the dice with a 10850K. Not seeing any qualified opinions on how the 10850K fairs with OCing the core and memory so will report back if things go that route.


----------



## cstkl1

ducegt said:


> Let's please be nice to each other and not type like 12 year old girls
> 
> I'm going to order a rig for a friend this week with an Apex XII and 2x16GB. The Royal 4000CL17 kit is out of a stock and if that doesn't change soon I'll just order the 4000CL19. G.Skill does have a 4000CL16 on their website now too https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL16-19-19-39-1.40V32GB-(2x16GB)
> 
> Also frustrating the 10900K is out of a stock and may roll the dice with a 10850K. Not seeing any qualified opinions on how the 10850K fairs with OCing the core and memory so will report back if things go that route.


i think those kits are hynix. 

cause they also have a 4400 2x8gb CL16 with same timings. 

based on what i saw the other day 10850 runs hot and 5ghz is already difficult

theres also hmm speculation theres two steppings. one with TIM and another soldered . 

just go to the local gskill distro and order it. 

be wary of da 4kc19 kits. the older ones dont have temp sensors and are not as good.. consistency i mean.

the 4400c16 gskill taiwan refused to tell what ic they are using.

asus qvl has a ton of 4400-4533 hynix kits now on all 4dimms.

dont buy 10850k.. these were based on 10units of avengers edition ya.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

ducegt said:


> Let's please be nice to each other and not type like 12 year old girls
> 
> I'm going to order a rig for a friend this week with an Apex XII and 2x16GB. The Royal 4000CL17 kit is out of a stock and if that doesn't change soon I'll just order the 4000CL19. G.Skill does have a 4000CL16 on their website now too https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL16-19-19-39-1.40V32GB-(2x16GB)
> 
> Also frustrating the 10900K is out of a stock and may roll the dice with a 10850K. Not seeing any qualified opinions on how the 10850K fairs with OCing the core and memory so will report back if things go that route.


10700k has the same memory controller as the 10900k and same chance of getting a good core overclock. With a 10850k you’ll likely be stuck under 5ghz. If you want good overclocking AND have to have the extra 2 cores then wait for the 10900k to be in stock.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> 10700k has the same memory controller as the 10900k and same chance of getting a good core overclock. With a 10850k you’ll likely be stuck under 5ghz. If you want good overclocking AND have to have the extra 2 cores then wait for the 10900k to be in stock.


listen to this dude. avoid 10850k..


----------



## Agent-A01

nick name said:


> The and That. Don't type in vernacular. Unless you're a novelist -- it's idiotic.


Careful, don't use too big of words that he won't understand .

He's clearly lacking in cognitive ability and resorts to poor insults.
The old farts other posts have no substantial value either, can't hardly understand what he is saying.

Just let him be and talk amongst himself.



ducegt said:


> LI'm going to order a rig for a friend this week with an Apex XII and 2x16GB. The Royal 4000CL17 kit is out of a stock and if that doesn't change soon I'll just order the 4000CL19. G.Skill does have a 4000CL16 on their website now too https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...lDDR4-4000MHz-CL16-19-19-39-1.40V32GB-(2x16GB)
> 
> Also frustrating the 10900K is out of a stock and may roll the dice with a 10850K. Not seeing any qualified opinions on how the 10850K fairs with OCing the core and memory so will report back if things go that route.


The 4000CL19 should still be b-die so I'd say that would be ok to grab. 
Obviously on average it won't likely clock as well.

The kit you mentioned is listed here https://www.memoryc.com/memory/F4-4000C16D-32GTRS.html
Special order.

I thought about grabbing it but did not want to wait the extra time. 
But instead I got the royals 4000CL17 kit for 230 and thought that was a better deal.

Definitely a really good kit. Low voltages plus tight timings. Apex should be even better

10850K will be lower binned CPUs obviously, but they will all hit 5ghz.

You can get a dud chip that OCs with high voltage but still get one with a good IMC.
A good 5.4 chip doesn't mean it will have a god-like IMC either.

That's gonna be a lottery thing.


----------



## cstkl1

lets see how many ppl catch up on dis. since all are experts. 

amazing asus twtr_s =0

nuff said.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> [MENTION=169224]
> 4500-4533 its doable but the vccio/vcssa for proper trained rtl jump to 1.45 based the same set of subs i have been using . maybe need to loosen..
> now da hard part fft112... dual ranks passes my initial test easier but fails harder ones.. got to figure this out. single rank wasnt this hard but training wise duals are better. still fast booting all da training ya. dats how insane dis kits are..


It seems to me you need to grab an Apex board


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> Anyone else worried about how the new 3080 or 3090 Founders cards are going to **** with RAM overclocks? Those cards look like they're gonna cook RAM.


why would they stress RAM overclocks? 

I'm more worried about pci-e bandwidth and if we need to overclock the pci-e bus to regain performance there. 

Like what is faster, Intel with higher CPU performance but pci-e 3, or AMD with slower CPU performance but pci-e 4. I guess it will depend on the game or use case how much CPU to GPU communication there is.

Also for the Apex XII users, will Rocket Lake allow for pci-e 4 upgrade, since the board only uses pci-e 3 repeaters? What about the dimm.2 slot, could it do pci-e 4? 

The nvidia launch has really shaken the industry!


----------



## Imprezzion

This is the exact reason why I didn't buy a z490 Apex and CPU for it.. no PCI-E 4.0 support, very uncertain whether rocket lake will even come to this chipset / socket let alone have PCI-E 4 with it..

There's also the Windows Direct Storage thing for texture streaming from m.2 to take into account. That will probably take quite a hit on PCI-E 3.0. 

I'm glad I waited lol. 

As far as PCI-E 3.0 overclocking and RTX3xxx performance, I can bench that for you guys as soon as my 3080 comes in if you want? I mean, I already daily drive 104.1Mhz BCLK and I can go way higher on this CPU/board so. I tried as high as 48x106.3 for 5.1Ghz and it ran fine so i'll probably get away with 108.xx for another step up as well.


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> This is the exact reason why I didn't buy a z490 Apex and CPU for it.. no PCI-E 4.0 support, very uncertain whether rocket lake will even come to this chipset / socket let alone have PCI-E 4 with it..
> 
> There's also the Windows Direct Storage thing for texture streaming from m.2 to take into account. That will probably take quite a hit on PCI-E 3.0.
> 
> I'm glad I waited lol.
> 
> As far as PCI-E 3.0 overclocking and RTX3xxx performance, I can bench that for you guys as soon as my 3080 comes in if you want? I mean, I already daily drive 104.1Mhz BCLK and I can go way higher on this CPU/board so. I tried as high as 48x106.3 for 5.1Ghz and it ran fine so i'll probably get away with 108.xx for another step up as well.


Does someone actually use mainstream plattform to somthing other things than benchmarks? LOL 

Too bad there is no perfect plattform atm. AMD has to high latency and too slow singlethread performance, and Intel lack of pci-e 4.0.

I want a HEDT with low latency, many pci-e lanes, many cores. Yes I want it all in ONE plattform. Best singlecore performance, best bandwidth, lowest latency etc. This is how the HEDT should be.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> It seems to me you need to grab an Apex board


seems like it. but tempted to do 64gb 4400.. ????

btw i cant get 4400 to pass fft112. no idea whats the problem dis time. really thought i be da first with dat SS.. but now shows how futile it is.. 

but hmm apex/formula has zero gen 4 clock gen on it. funny hero and extreme does


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> seems like it. but tempted to do 64gb 4400.. ????


U want or need 64GB? If U need it, then HEDT platform is better anyways for the same reasons Nizzen mentioned over here.


----------



## nick name

skullbringer said:


> why would they stress RAM overclocks?
> 
> I'm more worried about pci-e bandwidth and if we need to overclock the pci-e bus to regain performance there.
> 
> Like what is faster, Intel with higher CPU performance but pci-e 3, or AMD with slower CPU performance but pci-e 4. I guess it will depend on the game or use case how much CPU to GPU communication there is.
> 
> Also for the Apex XII users, will Rocket Lake allow for pci-e 4 upgrade, since the board only uses pci-e 3 repeaters? What about the dimm.2 slot, could it do pci-e 4?
> 
> The nvidia launch has really shaken the industry!


The airflow on the Founders blows directly over the RAM. That's what worries me. My tightest setups are stable up to around 44*C and if a GPU is blowing hot air directly on the DIMMs then I can only imagine what the DIMM temps are going to be.


----------



## skullbringer

nick name said:


> The airflow on the Founders blows directly over the RAM. That's what worries me. My tightest setups are stable up to around 44*C and if a GPU is blowing hot air directly on the DIMMs then I can only imagine what the DIMM temps are going to be.


ah I see what you mean, but tbh any air cooled gpu with 350-400W will be a big challenge for case ambient temps, and since ram is always on top of your case and heat rises, you're f'd.

so I guess either remove the heat before it reaches case ambient, so watercool the gpu, or make sure ram is getting fresh air from outside the case constantly e.g direct side/front/top intake towards the ram


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Imprezzion said:


> This is the exact reason why I didn't buy a z490 Apex and CPU for it.. no PCI-E 4.0 support, very uncertain whether rocket lake will even come to this chipset / socket let alone have PCI-E 4 with it..
> 
> There's also the Windows Direct Storage thing for texture streaming from m.2 to take into account. That will probably take quite a hit on PCI-E 3.0.
> 
> I'm glad I waited lol.
> 
> As far as PCI-E 3.0 overclocking and RTX3xxx performance, I can bench that for you guys as soon as my 3080 comes in if you want? I mean, I already daily drive 104.1Mhz BCLK and I can go way higher on this CPU/board so. I tried as high as 48x106.3 for 5.1Ghz and it ran fine so i'll probably get away with 108.xx for another step up as well.


My MSI board hates BCLK overclocking. I lowered the multiplier from 53 to 52 and raised BCLK from 100 to 101 (5250 mhz) and the overclock was so bad that it corrupted my Windows install.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> U want or need 64GB? If U need it, then HEDT platform is better anyways for the same reasons Nizzen mentioned over here.


Looks bro. 2 dimm empty looks weird

Anyway nailed fft112 for 4400. Asus got a bug. Will let shamino later or hmm nah. Most probably its y esenel couldnt do 4x8gb bdie 4400 booting.. dat just maybe

Btw the rams serious improved stability on high clock compare to 4dimm. Cb20 now pretty easy @5.3 compared to 4dimm 

Hope you get yours soon. You be laughing at your older dimms. These are just sick. Still fastbooting 
4400c18 be my daily 24/7 btw since the vdimm still as per rated and c17 advantage is mainly on slightly lower latency.


10900k - SP 81
M12E - Bios 098

*
F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
2x16GB 4400 18-18-18-38 @1.4
Vccio/vcssa - 1.25/1.25
*










@Falkentyne
Remember dat odd behavior of my v/f for 5.1.
Its because i edited 5.2 & 5.3. If left auto tvb works correctly


----------



## itssladenlol

cstkl1 said:


> Betroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> U want or need 64GB? If U need it, then HEDT platform is better anyways for the same reasons Nizzen mentioned over here.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks bro. 2 dimm empty looks weird
> 
> Anyway nailed fft112 for 4400. Asus got a bug. Will let shamino later or hmm nah. Most probably its y esenel couldnt do 4x8gb bdie 4400 booting.. dat just maybe
> 
> Btw the rams serious improved stability on high clock compare to 4dimm. Cb20 now pretty easy @5.3 compared to 4dimm
> 
> Hope you get yours soon. You be laughing at your older dimms. These are just sick. Still fastbooting
> 4400c18 be my daily 24/7 btw since the vdimm still as per rated and c17 advantage is mainly on slightly lower latency.
> 
> 
> 10900k - SP 81
> M12E - Bios 098
> 
> *
> F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
> 2x16GB 4400 18-18-18-38 @1.4
> Vccio/vcssa - 1.25/1.25
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Falkentyne
> Remember dat odd behavior of my v/f for 5.1.
> Its because i edited 5.2 & 5.3. If left auto tvb works correctly
Click to expand...

Damn you, just ordered the 4000 c17 Kit you Made my mouth watery, but ive already running the 3200 c14 Kit @ 4400 c17 @17-18-18-38 1,5v.

Hoping the new Kit allows for way lower SA and Vccio

Need Sa 1,37 and Vccio 1,33 atm with 10900k to be stable in hci and karhu. 

Please tell me the 4000 c17 is worth it 😄


----------



## ducegt

The Royals 4000CL17 are already back in stock from NewEgg today, gold in stock, silver back ordered, for less money than the 4000CL19 kit. It's a friend's rig and should be placing the order tonight so we'll probably be running with the 108500K. I don't see why it would have a different IMC and I considered a 10700K, but there's plenty of people who can't clock them for **** either and at least 2 extra cores is guaranteed. I have a Z270 Apex IX modded with a 9900K and I can't even past cinebench at 5ghz though daily ~4950 is stable. I'll be happy if the IMC is good and 5ghz because otherwise I would preferred an AMD rig. 

This rig is going to get a 3080 FE.

I know it's been forever since we got a new PCIe generation or graphics bus, but every single time the first cards that come out that "support" the new version, there's insignificant gains versus the previous generation. Going with AMD for PCI-E and say a 3080 may seem like a safe gamble for PCIe 4.0, but you're guaranteed to get less gaming performance. 

As far as cooking RAM and heat rising... it's true heat rises, but it's basically irrelevant in an environment with air flow. My PC has an inverted ATX layout so the current would flow toward the top of the case, but that's where all the PCI slots are. I have toyed with zip tying a fan among the slots, but it's not needed. Another scenario that's similar is mounting a radiator on the front of a case as part of it's intake where the air flow is from front to back. It might sound like a bad idea because the rad gets soaked with heat from the CPU and then all the intake air gets heated going through before it goes to the rest of the components, but in reality, It'll only change temperatures a few degrees in contrast to a rad mounted to an exhaust. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

ducegt said:


> It's a friend's rig and should be placing the order tonight so we'll probably be running with the 108500K. I don't see why it would have a different IMC and I considered a 10700K, but there's plenty of people who can't clock them for **** either and at least 2 extra cores is guaranteed.


I don't bin CPUs but Silicon Lottery does and the 10700k has the same probability of hitting 5.1 all core as the 10900k.

10700k buyers are less likely to buy a high-end motherboard or RAM kit, which might explain your observations. Exhibit A:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...-10700k-not-go-above-4-69ghz-helppp-mehh.html

Even my Unify could be holding back my 10700k. There are secondary ram timings that the board will not allow me to lower below 5, unlike the higher end Asus boards. If I had an Apex I could probably run Cinebench R20 at 5.5.


----------



## cstkl1

itssladenlol said:


> Damn you, just ordered the 4000 c17 Kit you Made my mouth watery, but ive already running the 3200 c14 Kit @ 4400 c17 @17-18-18-38 1,5v.
> 
> Hoping the new Kit allows for way lower SA and Vccio
> 
> Need Sa 1,37 and Vccio 1,33 atm with 10900k to be stable in hci and karhu.
> 
> Please tell me the 4000 c17 is worth it 😄


yes they are. its just trains as if asus made the rams. vccio/vcssa 1.25 passes fft112. 
4400 scaling is stupid nuts
stable is c19 to c16 1.35/1.4/1.45/1.5 .. these are straight timings ya aka 19-19-19-39 /18-18-18-38 etc
all same vcssa/vccio. 

i cant guarantee anything bro cause u guys are ordering from resellers who seems to keep stock.
when i order gskill makes and ships them the same week. hence all my rams has the week number reflecting the date i ordered. 

4000c16 i got the pricing. its same as 4000c17 for royals. but gskill doesnt want to tell me the IC. same when i asked about 4400c16. keep saying confidential.

a friend of mine bought a ripjaws 3200c14 dr 32 for amd sametime .. he is experiencing diff issues. could be because its msi x570 amd system. 

whats crazy is its fast booting 4400 and its stable.


----------



## Betroz

Worst G.Skill sticks EVER to crawl out of the abyss...!!?? XII Apex - 0088 BIOS.

Edit : G.Skill 32G 4000C17 Royal kit btw.


----------



## Betroz

This kit is barely stable at stock. Either the 0088 BIOS is ****ed - or this RAM kit is from RAM Hell.

Some advice? Any chance of RMA on the kit from memoryc.com?


----------



## mattliston

turn your write recovery up to 14 and retest. Looks a bit low considering the voltages used.


Could also try setting VTT voltage slightly past 50% vdimm, instead of 0.725, try 0.735. If it doesnt work, be sure to go back to 50%//0.725


EDIT I dont understand why you think the ram is bad, asking for RMA. anything beyond 3600-4000mhz is asking for tweaking to be stable.


----------



## Falkentyne

mattliston said:


> turn your write recovery up to 14 and retest. Looks a bit low considering the voltages used.
> 
> 
> Could also try setting VTT voltage slightly past 50% vdimm, instead of 0.725, try 0.735. If it doesnt work, be sure to go back to 50%//0.725
> 
> 
> EDIT I dont understand why you think the ram is bad, asking for RMA. anything beyond 3600-4000mhz is asking for tweaking to be stable.


He shouldn't be having those errors. And it's definitely not his tWR.
I use the almost same settings on trident Z 3200 CL14's (2x16 GB) at 4133, except 16/16/16/36, and 1.45v / 0.750 VTT, with almost the same settings (and 6/12 trtp / twr) as he does and I'm stable.
So no idea why a royal kit wouldn't be stable. There's nothing wrong with his timings or voltages, and he's a tiny bit looser than mine.

Unless his twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg are set wrong...


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> This kit is barely stable at stock. Either the 0088 BIOS is ****ed - or this RAM kit is from RAM Hell.
> 
> Some advice? Any chance of RMA on the kit from memoryc.com?


edit saw da post. 

what week are those. pm me if u need help. 


side note


10900k - SP81
M12E - BIOS 0606
*
51|48 v/f [email protected]
2x16gb 4400 [email protected]
vccio/vcssa 1.25/1.25
*


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> what stick are those??



F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB - barely stable at XMP was what I meant. I have tried ALOT of timing configurations and voltages at 4133 Mhz, and nothing is stable. Errors within seconds in HCI.

I will try the 0707 BIOS before I give up on the sticks. Maybe there is something wrong with the 0088 BIOS? Unlikely maybe, but If my Royal sticks really are this bad, It gotta be the worst binned ever.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB - barely stable at XMP was what I meant. I have tried ALOT of timing configurations and voltages at 4133 Mhz, and nothing is stable. Errors within seconds in HCI.
> 
> I will try the 0707 BIOS before I give up on the sticks. Maybe there is something wrong with the 0088 BIOS? Unlikely maybe, but If my Royal sticks really are this bad, It gotta be the worst binned.


can u check the week no. its on da box as well 
it be 20xx


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> edit saw da post.
> 
> what week are those. pm me if u need help.
> 
> 
> side note
> 
> 
> 10900k - SP81
> M12E - BIOS 0606
> *
> 51|48 v/f [email protected]
> 2x16gb 4400 [email protected]
> vccio/vcssa 1.25/1.25
> *


Why is your GPU PCIE at x8 ?


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> can u check the week no. its on da box as well
> it be 20xx


2032, so week 32?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> 2032, so week 32?


yeah. still pretty new 

you failed in xmp at stock cpu??


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Why is your GPU PCIE at x8 ?


bench/testing OS drive on dimm m.2
easy to swap.

daily is under the gpu. will just revert in bios the full pcie.

its nuts if ppl are benching on full wc gpu using a nvme on pch. already killed one nvme..


----------



## ducegt

Good point that 10700k owners typically have lesser components. I'm just bitter my 9900K (4936mhz under load) sucks especially since my 7700K would boot at 5.4 and was an easy 5.1 0 avx daily. 

I sure hope the new Royal kit can do better than my pre-2017 3600CL15 on a Z270 Apex IX. This is my daily OC and I'm sure things could be optimized more for better aida scores, but I don't have the patience anymore.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> yeah. still pretty new
> 
> you failed in xmp at stock cpu??


I had to set SA voltage manuelly at XMP and that worked, but as I said even then the sticks were borderline cause even at 4133 speed with the SAME XMP settings, and more VDIMM, it failed.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> I had to set SA voltage manuelly at XMP and that worked, but as I said even then the sticks were borderline cause even at 4133 speed with the SAME XMP settings, and more VDIMM, it failed.


pm my contact.. if u are infront da comp. will guide u on whatsapp.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> pm my contact.. if u are infront da comp. will guide u on whatsapp.


That is so kind of you 

I am now running HCI on 4400-17-18-18-38-CR2, IO and SA 1.25v, 1.45 VDIMM - so far no error (only a few % in)

Fix?? I flashed to BIOS 0707 from 0088, cleared CMOS for 10sec. I also found out that with my current memory settings, IOL 8 is as low as it will go. IOL 7 will not boot. Is high IOL and RTL a sign of a bad IMC?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> That is so kind of you
> 
> I am now running HCI on 4400-17-18-18-38-CR2, IO and SA 1.25v, 1.45 VDIMM - so far no error (only a few % in)
> 
> Fix?? I flashed to BIOS 0707 from 0088, cleared CMOS for 10sec. I also found out that with my current memory settings, IOL 8 is as low as it will go. IOL 7 will not boot. Is high IOL and RTL a sign of a bad IMC?


oh ok. i really dont want u to be two times unlucky. 
dat i wouldn't wish on anyone who spend money to get something decent. 

rtl just go to algo enable round latency training. 

u really cant run straight 17??


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> rtl just go to algo enable round latency training.


What is the actual name in BIOS for that?



cstkl1 said:


> u really cant run straight 17??


The sticks get hot enough with 1.45 VDIMM, so not sure if straight 17 is doable. I will try later


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> What is the actual name in BIOS for that?
> 
> 
> The sticks get hot enough with 1.45 VDIMM, so not sure if straight 17 is doable. I will try later


round trip latency = enabled is what he probably meant, allows for lower IO-Ls

sorry to hear your kit is such a pita

have you tried testing the sticks individually? Maybe only one is bad and is holding the other one back big time. Had this happen with Tforce XTREEM kit earlier this year


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> have you tried testing the sticks individually? Maybe only one is bad and is holding the other one back big time. Had this happen with Tforce XTREEM kit earlier this year


No I have not tried that, because I have a 140mm fan stripped ontop...lazy maybe.

I thought things was looking better here, but when I came home HCI had throwed some errors. I rebooted and just set 4300 Mhz, and now HCI is throwing errors right away. I will try some more here before I RMA them.


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> No I have not tried that, because I have a 140mm fan stripped ontop...lazy maybe.
> 
> I thought things was looking better here, but when I came home HCI had throwed some errors. I rebooted and just set 4300 Mhz, and now HCI is throwing errors right away. I will try some more here before I RMA them.


you also might wanna give the gold connectors of the dimms a wipe with isopropanol, just to make sure. at high speeds this can actually have an impact


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> round trip latency = enabled


Tried it now. Didn't help.

Edit : 
RTL CHA = 64/64, IOL 8/8
RTL CHB = 64/65, IOL 8/8

That boots at 4400 Mhz.


----------



## skullbringer

Betroz said:


> Tried it now. Didn't help.
> 
> Edit :
> RTL CHA = 64/64, IOL 8/8
> RTL CHB = 64/65, IOL 8/8
> 
> That boots at 4400 Mhz.


since you are listing 4 values each, are you running 4x 8GB now? then 4400 MHz is pretty good 

with RTL enabled you can now increase IO Latency offset per channel to lower the IO-Ls per channel.

IO latency offset auto = 21 results in IOL 8. So e.g. 24 would result in IOL 5. If you see really high or uneven IOLs you might need to retry memory training

check here for step by step: https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-460.html#post28566770


----------



## Betroz

skullbringer said:


> since you are listing 4 values each, are you running 4x 8GB now? then 4400 MHz is pretty good


No 2 sticks on Apex. Dual rank kit.


----------



## warbucks

I picked up a dual rank kit to play around with on my M12A. F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB. I was using 4 dimm on my M12F previously but 4dimm seems to have some issues at higher frequencies with the current set of bioses available.


----------



## The Pook

my Taichi died  

on the brighter side the replacement board is happy with 4 DIMMs @ 4266 (haven't tried higher) vs being stuck at 3600 with 4 DIMMs on my Taichi


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> since you are listing 4 values each, are you running 4x 8GB now? then 4400 MHz is pretty good
> 
> with RTL enabled you can now increase IO Latency offset per channel to lower the IO-Ls per channel.
> 
> IO latency offset auto = 21 results in IOL 8. So e.g. 24 would result in IOL 5. If you see really high or uneven IOLs you might need to retry memory training
> 
> check here for step by step: https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...memory-stability-thread-460.html#post28566770


It will have 2 values for each channel if you re running SR 2DPC or DR 1DPC.

If you re running DR 2DPC you will have 4 values for each channel.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> What is the actual name in BIOS for that?
> 
> 
> The sticks get hot enough with 1.45 VDIMM, so not sure if straight 17 is doable. I will try later


Here's some settings to try for 4200-17-17-17-34-2T if you want. Nothing special. Been running it as daily. 1.35v sa and io. 1.45v vdimm 52/49



The Pook said:


> my Taichi died
> 
> on the brighter side the replacement board is happy with 4 DIMMs @ 4266 (haven't tried higher) vs being stuck at 3600 with 4 DIMMs on my Taichi


Commiserations/congratulations 
How did it die?


----------



## The Pook

munternet said:


> Commiserations/congratulations
> How did it die?





not really sure, was getting random hard freezes and occasional BSODs of varying flavors more and more frequently. Stability tests were okay when they'd run so I figured it was my iffy OS install, went to reinstall and it kept crashing/freezing and eventually it just stopped booting. 

probably should come up with a better story, it's not very exciting :laughings


----------



## Aretak

The absolute limit of what I've been able to drag out of this 2x16 3200/CL16 Ballistix kit (one of the old ones from before they changed the heatspreaders). Nothing compared to B-die of course, but then it was half the price. I can bench with some things lower (like tRCD/tRP 21), but it fails Memtest within 75% or so, whereas this is stable past 1000% at least. Don't know if the cheap(ish) motherboard or the sticks are at their limit, though the motherboard is excellent at recovering from bad memory overclocks, I'll say that. Hasn't failed to do it once.


----------



## munternet

Aretak said:


> The absolute limit of what I've been able to drag out of this 2x16 3200/CL16 Ballistix kit (one of the old ones from before they changed the heatspreaders). Nothing compared to B-die of course, but then it was half the price. I can bench with some things lower (like tRCD/tRP 21), but it fails Memtest within 75% or so, whereas this is stable past 1000% at least. Don't know if the cheap(ish) motherboard or the sticks are at their limit, though the motherboard is excellent at recovering from bad memory overclocks, I'll say that. Hasn't failed to do it once.


Nice one :thumb:


----------



## cstkl1

btw asrock z490 taichi max vcssa is 1.25v
tested 4133 was da max it could do on 4dimm


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Here's some settings to try for 4200-17-17-17-34-2T if you want.


Thanks  This is my 4400 baseline HCI stable timings. I could probably improve some here. Finally...It took me some time.


----------



## Betroz

If it was possible for me to tune RTL and IOL better, the result would be better. I guess I could lower tCWL down to 14 and tCKE down a bit too. BIOS 0707 btw. I'm just tired of running HCI for now you know


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> If it was possible for me to tune RTL and IOL better, the result would be better. I guess I could lower tCWL down to 14 and tCKE down a bit too. BIOS 0707 btw. I'm just tired of running HCI for now you know


Nice work mate :thumb:
Good to see you getting a good result at last 
The 2x16GB DR sticks seem a little finicky. Sometimes looser is worse.
Can you tell me why you didn't use the 0088 bios?


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Nice work mate :thumb:
> Good to see you getting a good result at last
> The 2x16GB DR sticks seem a little finicky. Sometimes looser is worse.
> Can you tell me why you didn't use the 0088 bios?


Thanx 
I did try 0088 BIOS, it seemed to train RTL/IOL worse, so I gave up. Now that I know more about my 16GB sticks, it was probably my fault and not the 0088 BIOS. Anyways I won't bother flashing the BIOS again. I will wait for a future BIOS.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Thanx
> I did try 0088 BIOS, it seemed to train RTL/IOL worse, so I gave up. Now that I know more about my 16GB sticks, it was probably my fault and not the 0088 BIOS. Anyways I won't bother flashing the BIOS again. I will wait for a future BIOS.


You will probably get your latency to about 37ns with the 0088 bios
I did ask about a newer bios on HWBOT when I was getting the freezes but I fixed it and I'm not sure another one is needed or coming any time soon although a friend is getting freezes now


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> You will probably get your latency to about 37ns with the 0088 bios
> I did ask about a newer bios on HWBOT when I was getting the freezes but I fixed it and I'm not sure another one is needed or coming any time soon although a friend is getting freezes now


Yes I know tXP timing in 0088 BIOS. Surely this setting will be in a future BIOS... Btw does tXP 4 need more VDIMM compared to auto 7?


----------



## Gen.

SunnyStefan said:


> cstkl1 keeps condescendingly insinuating that users are dumb for not knowing how to "properly" set RTLs, this is the second or third time I've personally noticed him doing so at least. Instead of taking 15 minutes of his time and sharing his preferred method of tuning this aspect of RAM, cstkl1 has the audacity to claim it's _somehow_ _impossible _for him to outline his process in a straight forward step-by-step numbered guide .
> 
> Everyone here is interested in the same thing, we want to make our RAM go faster while still maintaining overall system stability. It's in the community's best interest to *share *knowledge about how to better tune these timings. Take for instance this guy on Reddit who recently shared his findings about TXP and PPD. Very few people knew about this, and now that it's widely understood and the latency gains seem to be consistent, motherboard manufacturers like Asus (and maybe MSI?) have actually added direct access to this timing via BIOS updates.
> 
> If Gen., cstkl1, or anyone else has any insight into properly tightening RTL and/or IOL timings that goes beyond [email protected]'s guide I'm sure everyone here would very appreciative of their advice.


I am able to configure the RTL-IOL-OFFSET block. I can help. This is not difficult.

I'm looking at the new site shell. Need to get used to it 

By the way, they took my 8700K from me and bought a new 9900KF. Some kind of obscure got caught. Here are some results for you.


----------



## Gen.

Взаимодействие с другими людьми


----------



## Imprezzion

I found a delidded direct die m8 9900KS with a Maxi XI Hero included secondhand. Thinking of getting that deal to replace my Z390 Ace and 9900K P0 at a very minimal loss and just to have something new to play around with until Intel releases a PCI-E 4 compatible chip and chipset.

I know it's not an Apex but does a Hero and a 9900KS generally do better in terms of memory overclocking compared to a MSI Ace and a very poor IMC P0 9900K?


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> I found a delidded direct die m8 9900KS with a Maxi XI Hero included secondhand. Thinking of getting that deal to replace my Z390 Ace and 9900K P0 at a very minimal loss and just to have something new to play around with until Intel releases a PCI-E 4 compatible chip and chipset.
> 
> I know it's not an Apex but does a Hero and a 9900KS generally do better in terms of memory overclocking compared to a MSI Ace and a very poor IMC P0 9900K?


What memory? I saw you had recently bought 2x16gb and I do not think the Hero will do any better than your Ace. It does best with 4x8gb. Best I can run and be stable on the z390 Hero is 4266/16/16/16 with 4x8gb. I would think 2x16 you would be lucky to hit 4000-4133.

I tried some Team 8pack Edition 2x16gb 3600c16 in the z390 Hero and I think it topped out around 3800(didn't play with it much as I was in the middle of trying to figure out why z490 Hero sucked so bad for mem OC on 4x8 or 2x16). 

The z490 Hero is not much better for 2x16(4133) or 4x8(4000 so it is worse) than z390. Asus lost it on the z490 model. I just got an z490 Unify and it will run 2x16(4600c18) and 4x8(4400c17) ranges and it trains and boots fast. The Unify will do about what the z490 Apex I have does for memory OCing.


----------



## Placekicker19

I have a 9900ks and z390 dark. It overclocks memory great, however the memory controller on my 9900ks is complete garbage . I can run 5.2ghz and 4.8ghz cache with 1.28v set in bios using -50% vdroop. To run memory @ 4400mhz cL 17 17 17 36 semi tight secondaries and tertiary requires, SA of 1.365v, and IO of 1.365vs to train RTL/io's stable. Passed 2000% coverage hcimemtest with settings.

How dangerous is it running 1.365vs on sa and io? I am delidded with direct die cooling on 480mm rad for cpu only and temps stay under 70 during all heavy stress testing. I'm not sure if keeping a cpu cool will help keep the memory controller from degrading as quickly when using higher sa io voltages. 

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated,
Thanks


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> What memory? I saw you had recently bought 2x16gb and I do not think the Hero will do any better than your Ace. It does best with 4x8gb. Best I can run and be stable on the z390 Hero is 4266/16/16/16 with 4x8gb. I would think 2x16 you would be lucky to hit 4000-4133.
> 
> I tried some Team 8pack Edition 2x16gb 3600c16 in the z390 Hero and I think it topped out around 3800(didn't play with it much as I was in the middle of trying to figure out why z490 Hero sucked so bad for mem OC on 4x8 or 2x16).
> 
> The z490 Hero is not much better for 2x16(4133) or 4x8(4000 so it is worse) than z390. Asus lost it on the z490 model. I just got an z490 Unify and it will run 2x16(4600c18) and 4x8(4400c17) ranges and it trains and boots fast. The Unify will do about what the z490 Apex I have does for memory OCing.


M12A would do DR 2*16GB 4600 16-17 just fine 










If you got a golden kit you can do DR 2*16GB 4700 16-17


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> M12A would do DR 2*16GB 4600 16-17 just fine


Hi. I have serious problems getting the G.Skill F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB, 2x16 kit to train on the M12A board. For some reason my 4400 17-18-18-38 settings that i vertified HCI stable, would no longer boot. I have sent the sticks over to a friend who also have a M12A to see if he can get it to work (to exclude any fault of mine).

Do you have any advice to get 2x16 to train properly? Any step-by-step settings specifically for DRAM training I need to know for 2x16 to work?
Btw, I tried manual IOL of 8 and RTL 63/64, and auto IOL/RTL, but still the M12A had problems. Using 0088 BIOS.
I have NO problems getting my 2x8 kit to train.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Hi. I have serious problems getting the G.Skill F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB, 2x16 kit to train on the M12A board. For some reason my 4400 17-18-18-38 settings that i vertified HCI stable, would no longer boot. I have sent the sticks over to a friend who also have a M12A to see if he can get it to work (to exclude any fault of mine).
> 
> Do you have any advice to get 2x16 to train properly? Any step-by-step settings specifically for DRAM training I need to know for 2x16 to work?
> Btw, I tried manual IOL of 8 and RTL 63/64, and auto IOL/RTL, but still the M12A had problems. Using 0088 BIOS.
> I have NO problems getting my 2x8 kit to train.


The ODT for DR on M12 is off. You need to try 80-40-(34~48) to boot 4400+. tRDRD_DR also needs to be fixed to 6 and below. tWR seems to be more stable to be 12 and 10 to pass TM5.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The ODT for DR on M12 is off.


I feel a bit noob now, but what is ODT?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> I feel a bit noob now, but what is ODT?


On-die terminator. The sittings are under "Skew Control". For DR bdie the values are around: RTT_WR=80 RTT_PARK=40 RTT_NOM=40.

You can try RTT_NOM from 34 to 48, depends on your rig.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> On-die terminator. The sittings are under "Skew Control". For DR bdie the values are around: RTT_WR=80 RTT_PARK=40 RTT_NOM=40.
> 
> You can try RTT_NOM from 34 to 48, depends on your rig.


Ok thanks, I will do that when I get my sticks back. So a lower RTT_NOM number is faster, and a higher number is easier to boot?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Ok thanks, I will do that when I get my sticks back. So a lower RTT_NOM number is faster, and a higher number is easier to boot?


Those are ohms. You need to match the build quality of your sticks. Higher ODT will cancel the signal reflection, but weaken the signal strength on the sticks, you need to find the most proper ODT for your sticks.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Those are ohms. You need to match the build quality of your sticks. Higher ODT will cancel the signal reflection, but weaken the signal strength on the sticks, you need to find the most proper ODT for your sticks.


So...you gotta be an electrical engineer to figure out DR memory it seems. No chance in hell I would have thought about this on my own. I thought the Asus BIOS team would program the BIOS to do this well on auto settings, but clearly not.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> So...you gotta be an electrical engineer to figure out DR memory it seems. No chance in hell I would have thought about this on my own. I thought the Asus BIOS team would program the BIOS to do this well on auto settings, but clearly not.


ASUS team is now slow on improving the bios...MSI releases BIOSes every one or two weeks

Just need to try 80-40-40, which worked for most people


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Just need to try 80-40-40, which worked for most people


Again, thank you


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> What memory? I saw you had recently bought 2x16gb and I do not think the Hero will do any better than your Ace. It does best with 4x8gb. Best I can run and be stable on the z390 Hero is 4266/16/16/16 with 4x8gb. I would think 2x16 you would be lucky to hit 4000-4133.
> 
> I tried some Team 8pack Edition 2x16gb 3600c16 in the z390 Hero and I think it topped out around 3800(didn't play with it much as I was in the middle of trying to figure out why z490 Hero sucked so bad for mem OC on 4x8 or 2x16).
> 
> The z490 Hero is not much better for 2x16(4133) or 4x8(4000 so it is worse) than z390. Asus lost it on the z490 model. I just got an z490 Unify and it will run 2x16(4600c18) and 4x8(4400c17) ranges and it trains and boots fast. The Unify will do about what the z490 Apex I have does for memory OCing.


Yeah, they are 2x16 DR G.Skill 3600C16's. I run 3850 14-15-15 on the Ace. Any divider over 3800 is a no-go so I just added some BCLK to it to get to 3850 which is stable. 

Meh, I might still get it just for the already delidded KS and just test the board out. If it does worse or the same I'll just put the KS in the Ace and sell the Hero again with the 9900K and my old 2x8GB kit in it.


----------



## itssladenlol

bscool said:


> What memory? I saw you had recently bought 2x16gb and I do not think the Hero will do any better than your Ace. It does best with 4x8gb. Best I can run and be stable on the z390 Hero is 4266/16/16/16 with 4x8gb. I would think 2x16 you would be lucky to hit 4000-4133.
> 
> I tried some Team 8pack Edition 2x16gb 3600c16 in the z390 Hero and I think it topped out around 3800(didn't play with it much as I was in the middle of trying to figure out why z490 Hero sucked so bad for mem OC on 4x8 or 2x16).
> 
> The z490 Hero is not much better for 2x16(4133) or 4x8(4000 so it is worse) than z390. Asus lost it on the z490 model. I just got an z490 Unify and it will run 2x16(4600c18) and 4x8(4400c17) ranges and it trains and boots fast. The Unify will do about what the z490 Apex I have does for memory OCing.


So Much missinformation here.
Idk where you get that the z490 hero can only run 2x16GB up to 4133?!
Im running 2x16gb trident Z rgb 3200 c14 dual rank @4500 c17 on maximus XII hero z490.
Single rank i can Do 4600+.
For quad dimms 4200 is the Limit.


----------



## Imprezzion

I tried to get a Z390 Apex but they are totally unavailable on the secondhand market and the new price isn't justifiable for me so when I saw this Hero with a delidded KS come up I just made an offer lol. More for the KS then the board but IF the board does better with DR sticks it would be nice hehe.

I mean, the Ace did 4400 just fine with 2x8 but won't behave with 2x16 above 3800 but I'm not sure if that's the board or the IMC of the CPU's fault really. We shall see if the deal goes through what happens.


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> ASUS team is now slow on improving the bios...*MSI releases BIOSes every one or two weeks*
> 
> Just need to try 80-40-40, which worked for most people


So where are all the bioses to my Msi z490 Unify ITX?


----------



## Nizzen

itssladenlol said:


> So Much missinformation here.
> Idk where you get that the z490 hero can only run 2x16GB up to 4133?!
> Im running 2x16gb trident Z rgb 3200 c14 dual rank @4500 c17 on maximus XII hero z490.
> Single rank i can Do 4600+.
> For quad dimms 4200 is the Limit.


Please post some Aida 64 benchmarks and memorytests on 4500c17 2x16GB  Looks like you found the OC key


----------



## Azsy

Running i5-10400f at 4GHz all core and cache on an Asus Z490-P, sticks are Patriot Viper 4400 cl19.
AIDA random access latency is 53.1ns average over 5 tests, regular is 45.76ns.
This setup seems to be relatively stable at 1.3v SA and IO(for at least 40 minutes in TM5) with 1.4v DRAM, previously I was on IOL 14 with 1.2v IO and stable for at least a night of TM5, apparently going up 0.1v only gets me that one offset.
Timings should be basically jedec, wondering why I seem to be unable to get higher freq/tighter CL and can't even get above 3200 CL16 if I try CR1.
I've seen someone else get CR1 CL14 with what should be the same setup.
Any ideas/suggestions?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> So where are all the bioses to my Msi z490 Unify ITX?


Check this page




__





腾讯微云







share.weiyun.com


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Those are ohms. You need to match the build quality of your sticks. Higher ODT will cancel the signal reflection, but weaken the signal strength on the sticks, you need to find the most proper ODT for your sticks.


Me and Tyllo on the OC discord found 80/48/40 worked well for our gskill dual rank 2x16GB sticks (on his M12 Apex and my M12 Extreme).
He and Yaqy also had massive gains in yeeting some timings by setting DLLBwen=0, and 0 made some impossible to boot timings able to boot.

I also fixed my RTL's.


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Check this page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com


Thank you!

Can you help me download from this site? It's impossible for me


----------



## Betroz

Falkentyne said:


> by setting DLLBwen=0, and 0 made some impossible to boot timings able to boot


Where is the DLLBwen setting in the BIOS and what does it do? Nice resultes btw 
5.0/4.7 is your new 24/7 CPU setting? Have you tried 5.2 with HT off just for gaming?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Can you help me download from this site? It's impossible for me


No problem. Just 2 steps you should be able to download it. No account needed. I cant attach a zip or rar file here.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Me and Tyllo on the OC discord found 80/48/40 worked well for our gskill dual rank 2x16GB sticks (on his M12 Apex and my M12 Extreme).
> He and Yaqy also had massive gains in yeeting some timings by setting DLLBwen=0, and 0 made some impossible to boot timings able to boot.
> 
> I also fixed my RTL's.
> View attachment 2458556


Yup, DLLBwen is found also depends on the frequency, 1 worked for 4500- and 0 worked for 4600 and 4700. RTT_NOM can be fine-tuned between 34 and 48, depends on the ram. I am running 80-40-48 for CHA and 80-40-34 for CHB.


----------



## chibi

** Off Topic **

Has anyone here purchased an Apex XII recently? If so, are they shipping with the B3 stepping of the Intel I225-v lan controller yet?


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> No problem. Just 2 steps you should be able to download it. No account needed. I cant attach a zip or rar file here.
> 
> View attachment 2458558


I need to login with QR code or something...

Looks like some of the bioses is here too:








MSI 인텔 Z490 시리즈 메인보드 최신 BIOS 모음


MSI 인텔 Z490 시리즈 메인보드의 최신 바이오스(BIOS)입니다. 인텔 Z490 시리즈의 경우 출시가 얼마되지 않은 신제품으로 현재 지속적으로 바이오스가 개선되고 있지만, 공식 웹 사이트에는 개발 중인 바이오스가 공개되지 않아 아직 일반인들은 최신 바이오스를 사용할 수 없죠. 이런 아쉬움이 있는 하드웨어 매니아(?)분들을 위해 개인적으로 MSI측과 협의하여 테스터/미디어용으로 배포된 가장 최신 바이오스를 공개합니다. 다만, '베타'로 구분된 바이오스의 경우 베타 테스트 버전인 것에 유의하셔서 사용하시길 바랍니다. *...




hwtips.tistory.com





But it not like twice a week bioses with Msi z490


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> I need to login with QR code or something...
> 
> Looks like some of the bioses is here too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI 인텔 Z490 시리즈 메인보드 최신 BIOS 모음
> 
> 
> MSI 인텔 Z490 시리즈 메인보드의 최신 바이오스(BIOS)입니다. 인텔 Z490 시리즈의 경우 출시가 얼마되지 않은 신제품으로 현재 지속적으로 바이오스가 개선되고 있지만, 공식 웹 사이트에는 개발 중인 바이오스가 공개되지 않아 아직 일반인들은 최신 바이오스를 사용할 수 없죠. 이런 아쉬움이 있는 하드웨어 매니아(?)분들을 위해 개인적으로 MSI측과 협의하여 테스터/미디어용으로 배포된 가장 최신 바이오스를 공개합니다. 다만, '베타'로 구분된 바이오스의 경우 베타 테스트 버전인 것에 유의하셔서 사용하시길 바랍니다. *...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwtips.tistory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it not like twice a week bioses with Msi z490


Seems like it does need a QQ account. Please check QQ Registration.

Last 0088 Bios for M12A was out in July....DK if ASUS is working on the Z590 or new AMD boards now. Pretty jealous Z490i Unify was able to boot 5200 14-14.


----------



## erfault

Anyone have thoughts on the Trident Z Royal Silver 16GBx2 16-19-19-39 1.40v kit? F4-4000C16D-32GTRS
Wonder if it is essentially a slightly tighter binned version of the F4-4000C17D-32GTRS/GB 1.40v (17-18-18-38) that came out last month....


----------



## bscool

itssladenlol said:


> So Much missinformation here.
> Idk where you get that the z490 hero can only run 2x16GB up to 4133?!
> Im running 2x16gb trident Z rgb 3200 c14 dual rank @4500 c17 on maximus XII hero z490.
> Single rank i can Do 4600+.
> For quad dimms 4200 is the Limit.


Can you post or link to 4200 4x8gb screenshots of Aida and memtest on the Z490 Hero?


----------



## itssladenlol

bscool said:


> Can you post or link to 4200 4x8gb screenshots of Aida and memtest on the Z490 Hero?












Only image i have left, was 1 month ago.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, the deal went through so I'll soon be comparing a P0 9900K and MSI Z390 Ace with a R0 9900KS and a Maximus XI Hero with a 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die kit.

If the Hero doesn't do any better then the Ace I will switch back to the Ace anyway but yeah. Any tips I should know about ASUS Z390 for memory OC?

I see people mentioning "modes" quite a lot which is something the MSI doesn't have so what is it and how to use it? And is there any other ASUS specific things I should know?


----------



## Nizzen

itssladenlol said:


> View attachment 2458609
> 
> 
> Only image i have left, was 1 month ago.





itssladenlol said:


> View attachment 2458609
> 
> 
> Only image i have left, was 1 month ago.


What about what you said: 
"
Im running 2x16gb trident Z rgb 3200 c14 dual rank @4500 c17 on maximus XII hero z490.
Single rank i can Do 4600+."
Any memtest, or just "suicide" aida mem benchmark?


----------



## nilssohn

Hi,

I made it to get 4x8 GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3200C14D-16GTZR @*4400-16-17-17-30-280 CR2* on the Maximus XI Hero stable in karhu and memtest. In games too, of course.

Brave 8600K runs on 51/49 with AVX=0 and LLC=7 and is prime stable @1,332-1,341V.

Additional tweaks in Asus BIOS 1602: RoundTrip, DLLBwEn=3, ODT=80-0-40










Nice or not?


----------



## bscool

itssladenlol said:


> View attachment 2458609
> 
> 
> Only image i have left, was 1 month ago.


If that is actually stable then that is the highest I have seen anyone get 4x8gb on a Hero(using b die and tighter timings). I don't think I have seen anyone even with the Extreme get over 4133 stable. Of course since I say that someone will post that one guy who has binned cpus, ram and board and post higher 

I just don't think getting 4200c1(4x8gb)7 or 4500c17(2x16) on a Hero is going to be typical. Maybe I am wrong and others will post will similar clocks.

Could also be I had a weaker board as they do vary some. May also be the newer PCB on the newer Gskills like you have. The only 2x16gb kits I had to try at the time were Team 8pack but they do 4400-4600 in the Apex and Unify.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Well, the deal went through so I'll soon be comparing a P0 9900K and MSI Z390 Ace with a R0 9900KS and a Maximus XI Hero with a 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die kit.
> 
> If the Hero doesn't do any better then the Ace I will switch back to the Ace anyway but yeah. Any tips I should know about ASUS Z390 for memory OC?
> 
> I see people mentioning "modes" quite a lot which is something the MSI doesn't have so what is it and how to use it? And is there any other ASUS specific things I should know?


Auto will be mode 1. Mode 2 will tighten the RTL/IOLs but you will probably need to manually set tertiaries when using mode 2 otherwise it will set them really high and kill performance. Mode 2 is harder to boot in my experience but gives the best performance if you can get it working and stable.


----------



## Veeto

chibi said:


> Reference





sdch said:


> *Intel Memory Overclocking Quick Reference
> 
> Quick Gains:*
> 
> Raise frequency, but not to the detriment of CL. Target a frequency/CL combination that makes sense for both transfer rate and latency.
> Lower CL (drives RTLs lower), and set tRCD/tRP accordingly.
> Lower CR if possible (drives RTLs lower), but not to the detriment of other timings.
> Lower tRFC.
> Lower tFAW (and tRRD_S with it, see below).
> Raise tREFI.
> Then work on the other timings.
> ​2nd/3rd timings[/url] can have
> ​results[/URL].
> 
> *Voltages:*
> 
> 
> DRAM Voltage (VDIMM): 1.20 - 1.45V. Some XMP kits go up to 1.50V. Above this is at your own risk.
> VCCIO/VCCSA:
> ​this table as a starting point[/url]. (Source)
> *Timings and "Rules":
> 
> Primary Timings:*
> 
> CL: Start with a safe frequency/CL combination and adjust from there.
> tRCD/tRP: Try 0-2 above CL (Samsung B-die) or 1-5 above CL (other ICs).
> tRAS: CL + tRCD + tRTP (Source) or CL + tRCD + 2 (Source and Diagram). Min: 28. (Source: ASRock UEFI description)
> CR: Try 1, otherwise leave at 2.
> *Secondary Timings:*
> 
> tWR: Leave on Auto and control by tWRPRE until desired value reached. Manually set after that. (Raja: 16, Try: 9-16)
> tRFC: Lower as much as possible.
> ​default[/url] for 8Gb ICs: 0.350*XXXX/2 for DDR4-XXXX. (Raja: 350-360, Try:


I used to use this "Quick reference" as my absolute bible for Raja's ranges and general overclocking rules, since the site upgrade I can't see this post in full anymore, please if this is available elsewhere would love to see it. 

Just gone from a 8700k to 9900kf on a pretty mid range mobo and looking to tighten a few things. Any advice appreciated. Thanks everyone, this forum\thread rules.


----------



## ducegt

chibi said:


> Has anyone here purchased an Apex XII recently? If so, are they shipping with the B3 stepping of the Intel I225-v lan controller yet?


How does one check this? I've got a new one from NewEgg on my hands.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Veeto said:


> I used to use this "Quick reference" as my absolute bible for Raja's ranges and general overclocking rules, since the site upgrade I can't see this post in full anymore, please if this is available elsewhere would love to see it.


You can view sdch's Quick Reference guide as a cached page here, just scroll down a bit.


----------



## Thebc2

erfault said:


> Anyone have thoughts on the Trident Z Royal Silver 16GBx2 16-19-19-39 1.40v kit? F4-4000C16D-32GTRS
> Wonder if it is essentially a slightly tighter binned version of the F4-4000C17D-32GTRS/GB 1.40v (17-18-18-38) that came out last month....


Was literally wondering the same. Was considering that kit but it’s back ordered and the other timings seemed looser then the C17 kit. The C17 kit is available for 269 in the royals which is decent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bscool

erfault said:


> Anyone have thoughts on the Trident Z Royal Silver 16GBx2 16-19-19-39 1.40v kit? F4-4000C16D-32GTRS
> Wonder if it is essentially a slightly tighter binned version of the F4-4000C17D-32GTRS/GB 1.40v (17-18-18-38) that came out last month....





Thebc2 said:


> Was literally wondering the same. Was considering that kit but it’s back ordered and the other timings seemed looser then the C17 kit. The C17 kit is available for 269 in the royals which is decent.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Going by my experience of OCing ram I would say it the c16 is a slightly better bin. But also that in the end overall performance is very close and the lower tcl is harder on the IMC(to boot and more heat as usually requires more voltage) and since they raise tRCD and tRP it basically cancels out any gains. This is just going by my own testing so take it with a grain of salt 

But if manually setting timings it doesn't matter so I would think either will clock about the same or very similar. Unless they throw some oddball and use something other than b die for the 16-19-19.

I will be buying some of the newer kits and Ill probably go with the c17 kits since I don't think the difference when manually OCing will matter. But may as well try the c16 and find out for sure 

I am going eyeing the 4266 c 17 kits. F4-4266C17D-32GVKB-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> Auto will be mode 1. Mode 2 will tighten the RTL/IOLs but you will probably need to manually set tertiaries when using mode 2 otherwise it will set them really high and kill performance. Mode 2 is harder to boot in my experience but gives the best performance if you can get it working and stable.


So mode 2 is basically what MSI calls "Enhanced" under Optimize RTL/IO settings.

I run that on the MSI as well, works wonders and does fine with tight tertiary timings.

Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## erfault

bscool said:


> Going by my experience of OCing ram I would say it the c16 is a slightly better bin. But also that in the end overall performance is very close and the lower tcl is harder on the IMC(to boot and more heat as usually requires more voltage) and since they raise tRCD and tRP it basically cancels out any gains. This is just going by my own testing so take it with a grain of salt
> 
> But if manually setting timings it doesn't matter so I would think either will clock about the same or very similar. Unless they throw some oddball and use something other than b die for the 16-19-19.
> 
> I will be buying some of the newer kits and Ill probably go with the c17 kits since I don't think the difference when manually OCing will matter. But may as well try the c16 and find out for sure
> 
> I am going eyeing the 4266 c 17 kits. F4-4266C17D-32GVKB-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Indeed, I hope retailers like Newegg stock the 4266C17 dual-rank b-die Royals soon, as that is infinitely more interesting over the recent 4000C16-19-19-39. Yeah, I was tempted to place a back-order for the 4000C16 dual-rank Royal Silver, but it's odd that G.Skill doesn't list a Royal Gold version for this bin, just Royal Silver, Trident Z RGB, and Ripjaws V (non-RGB, probably best kit for custom wc plate as heatspreaders look easiest to remove). Still, $289 for Royal Silver (or $270 for RGB, $240 for Ripjaws V) is costly to gamble unless they're verified dual-rank b-die, although the dual-rank 4000C19 kits (same tRCD/tRP as these 16-19-19-39 kits) were dual-rank Samsung b-die as well, hmm...

To be honest, I'm waiting for the dual-rank kits of their announced 4400C17-18-18-38 1.5v bin; looks like they released single-rank 2x 8GB versions of this bin very recently.
G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-16GTRS - Newegg.com
Interesting, they also released single-rank 4400CL16-19-19-39 1.5v bin... hopefully dual-rank 16GB versions come soon!
G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C16D-16GTRS - Newegg.com


----------



## erfault

This is just my quick and dirty result of dual-rank Trident Z Royal Gold 4000C17 @ 4266 17-18-18-38 1.45v. VCCIO: 1.33v. VCCSA: 1.35v.
2000% HCI Memtest, 10000% Karhu, 6 hrs Prime95 112K/1344K/Large FFTs (non-AVX) stable.
Latency is a bit high b/c haven't yet set tXP/PPD in 0088 BIOS, although I chose for Apex to manually train my RTL/IOL so I could lower the RTLs and IOLs w/o having to use Mode 2, since it seems to be somewhat of a pain to get perfectly stable in HCI Memtest/TM5 1usmus, at least for these dual-rank sticks. I used to run Mode 2 w/ single-rank 8GBx2 4400C18 Trident Z RGB kit fine, but dual-rank is a bit particular.

Been busy looking around for 10900Ks hoping for a better bin than SP63, so haven't done that much tuning yet, although 4400C16-17-17-36 seemed impossible to stabilize on my SP63 chip's IMC even at VCCIO 1.35v VCCSA: 1.4v. Clearly it just needs more IO/SA voltage, but rn I can't be arsed at the moment, lol.


----------



## Veeto

SunnyStefan said:


> You can view sdch's Quick Reference guide as a cached page here, just scroll down a bit.


Thanks mate, appreciate it!


----------



## the_real_7

Placekicker19 said:


> I have a 9900ks and z390 dark. It overclocks memory great, however the memory controller on my 9900ks is complete garbage . I can run 5.2ghz and 4.8ghz cache with 1.28v set in bios using -50% vdroop. To run memory @ 4400mhz cL 17 17 17 36 semi tight secondaries and tertiary requires, SA of 1.365v, and IO of 1.365vs to train RTL/io's stable. Passed 2000% coverage hcimemtest with settings.
> 
> How dangerous is it running 1.365vs on sa and io? I am delidded with direct die cooling on 480mm rad for cpu only and temps stay under 70 during all heavy stress testing. I'm not sure if keeping a cpu cool will help keep the memory controller from degrading as quickly when using higher sa io voltages.
> 
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated,
> Thanks


Becareful with sa and io voltage so high , the reason you don't go so high on that voltage is not degrading. It becuase you burn the pin on the cpu . . . Doesn't matter your cooling


----------



## Nizzen

the_real_7 said:


> cuase you burn the pin o





the_real_7 said:


> Becareful with sa and io voltage so high , the reason you don't go so high on that voltage is not degrading. It becuase you burn the pin on the cpu . . . Doesn't matter your cooling


LOL

Show me proof of this has actually happened  If not, it's just another story....


----------



## itssladenlol

the_real_7 said:


> Becareful with sa and io voltage so high , the reason you don't go so high on that voltage is not degrading. It becuase you burn the pin on the cpu . . . Doesn't matter your cooling


LOL, nice Troll 2/10 for the effort tho. 
Dude cant be serious 😂


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen 
new rams by gskill bro binned z490 daisy

F4-4266C19D-16GTRS
F4-4266C17D-16GTRSB
F4-4266C16D-16GTRS
F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB
F4-4400C18D-16GTRS
F4-4400C17D-16GTRS
F4-4400C16D-16GTRS
F4-4600C18D-16GTRS
F4-4800C18D-16GTRS
F4-4266C19D-16GTRG
F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB
F4-4400C18D-16GTRG
F4-4600C18D-16GTRG
F4-4800C18D-16GTRG

bought F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB
time to bling bling gold..


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> If that is actually stable then that is the highest I have seen anyone get 4x8gb on a Hero(using b die and tighter timings). I don't think I have seen anyone even with the Extreme get over 4133 stable. Of course since I say that someone will post that one guy who has binned cpus, ram and board and post higher
> 
> I just don't think getting 4200c1(4x8gb)7 or 4500c17(2x16) on a Hero is going to be typical. Maybe I am wrong and others will post will similar clocks.
> 
> Could also be I had a weaker board as they do vary some. May also be the newer PCB on the newer Gskills like you have. The only 2x16gb kits I had to try at the time were Team 8pack but they do 4400-4600 in the Apex and Unify.


theres no issue on extreme on 4dimm 4266 bdie on posting

the problem is training consistency on hci etc
one boot its stable 1000%. next boot fail 3%.. 

issue crops up from 4133 onwards


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> new rams by gskill bro binned z490 daisy
> 
> F4-4266C19D-16GTRS
> F4-4266C17D-16GTRSB
> F4-4266C16D-16GTRS
> F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB
> F4-4400C18D-16GTRS
> F4-4400C17D-16GTRS
> F4-4400C16D-16GTRS
> F4-4600C18D-16GTRS
> F4-4800C18D-16GTRS
> F4-4266C19D-16GTRG
> F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB
> F4-4400C18D-16GTRG
> F4-4600C18D-16GTRG
> F4-4800C18D-16GTRG
> 
> bought F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB
> time to bling bling gold..


Nice 
Is 4400 c16-19-19 . Why not c16 flat 

Starting to be like micron c19-26-26 ,LOL


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Auto will be mode 1. Mode 2 will tighten the RTL/IOLs but you will probably need to manually set tertiaries when using mode 2 otherwise it will set them really high and kill performance. Mode 2 is harder to boot in my experience but gives the best performance if you can get it working and stable.


mode 2 is not better performance than mode 1. its only higher because of the rtl. once u do same timings on both mode 1 higher performance.

mode 2 has diff sets of rule .. formula between secondary and third timings.

its more of a choice based on user knowledge. u cannot leave third timings turnaround on auto in mode 2 for high clocks. you should key them in.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Nice
> Is 4400 c16-19-19 . Why not c16 flat
> 
> Starting to be like micron c19-26-26 ,LOL


all i know. they are 16-19-19-39
and when asked what chipset. gskill said confidential.

so ..
btw crucial pricing their max sticks like their father took steroids. gskill are like way way cheaper even with da bling.


----------



## garyd9

I feel kind of odd asking the RAM tuning experts this question, but I know my shortcomings, and I simply don't have the patience needed to try and tune my cheap RAM kit to get something better out of it.... It was easy on the Ryzen x570 platform where tools like "DRAM Calculator" exist and give a pre-configured set of timings to try out. For the lazy, it's a great way to "tune" memory with predetermined numbers. Sadly, those numbers don't really make sense on the z490 platform, and I can't find a similar tool for the intel platform.

That being said, on a z490 motherboard, I'm currently using a g.skill 2x16 hynix DJR kit. The exact kit is F4-3600C16D-32GVKC and the timings on the sticker are 16-19-19-36. I'd be willing to try a set of numbers to see what happens, but I really don't have the patience needed for properly tuning memory. Does anyone happen to have a decent set of numbers? 

As I've mentioned, I don't have the patience to tune memory timings, so perhaps there's another way for me to get better latency and speed: Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced 2x16 kit (32GB total) that gives good latency/speed with minimal effort (okay, with nearly zero effort)? I've seen plenty of expensive kits with samsung b-die, but usually they require the hours/day/weeks of tweaking timings to get good performance out of them.

What does a lazy person do?


----------



## munternet

garyd9 said:


> I feel kind of odd asking the RAM tuning experts this question, but I know my shortcomings, and I simply don't have the patience needed to try and tune my cheap RAM kit to get something better out of it.... It was easy on the Ryzen x570 platform where tools like "DRAM Calculator" exist and give a pre-configured set of timings to try out. For the lazy, it's a great way to "tune" memory with predetermined numbers. Sadly, those numbers don't really make sense on the z490 platform, and I can't find a similar tool for the intel platform.
> 
> That being said, on a z490 motherboard, I'm currently using a g.skill 2x16 hynix DJR kit. The exact kit is F4-3600C16D-32GVKC and the timings on the sticker are 16-19-19-36. I'd be willing to try a set of numbers to see what happens, but I really don't have the patience needed for properly tuning memory. Does anyone happen to have a decent set of numbers?
> 
> As I've mentioned, I don't have the patience to tune memory timings, so perhaps there's another way for me to get better latency and speed: Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced 2x16 kit (32GB total) that gives good latency/speed with minimal effort (okay, with nearly zero effort)? I've seen plenty of expensive kits with samsung b-die, but usually they require the hours/day/weeks of tweaking timings to get good performance out of them.
> 
> What does a lazy person do?


I don't know if you consider these expensive but they are good value for money B-Die with temp sensors.





G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZR at Amazon.com


Buy G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZR: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





As far as timings for your current set you might try asking @*OLDFATSHEEP*


----------



## Thebc2

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> new rams by gskill bro binned z490 daisy
> 
> F4-4266C19D-16GTRS
> F4-4266C17D-16GTRSB
> F4-4266C16D-16GTRS
> F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB
> F4-4400C18D-16GTRS
> F4-4400C17D-16GTRS
> F4-4400C16D-16GTRS
> F4-4600C18D-16GTRS
> F4-4800C18D-16GTRS
> F4-4266C19D-16GTRG
> F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB
> F4-4400C18D-16GTRG
> F4-4600C18D-16GTRG
> F4-4800C18D-16GTRG
> 
> bought F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB
> time to bling bling gold..


So much want (but in silver). Where did you find it?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## munternet

I think I've found about the optimal setting for my 2x16GB ram as far as io, sa, vdimm, bandwidth and latency are concerned
Nothing is really pushed and the performance is reasonable so I'm looking at trialing this for my daily
Passed Ollie so far


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> all i know. they are 16-19-19-39
> and when asked what chipset. gskill said confidential.
> 
> so ..
> btw crucial pricing their max sticks like their father took steroids. gskill are like way way cheaper even with da bling.


4000C16D-32GTRS is b-die.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

garyd9 said:


> I feel kind of odd asking the RAM tuning experts this question, but I know my shortcomings, and I simply don't have the patience needed to try and tune my cheap RAM kit to get something better out of it.... It was easy on the Ryzen x570 platform where tools like "DRAM Calculator" exist and give a pre-configured set of timings to try out. For the lazy, it's a great way to "tune" memory with predetermined numbers. Sadly, those numbers don't really make sense on the z490 platform, and I can't find a similar tool for the intel platform.
> 
> That being said, on a z490 motherboard, I'm currently using a g.skill 2x16 hynix DJR kit. The exact kit is F4-3600C16D-32GVKC and the timings on the sticker are 16-19-19-36. I'd be willing to try a set of numbers to see what happens, but I really don't have the patience needed for properly tuning memory. Does anyone happen to have a decent set of numbers?
> 
> As I've mentioned, I don't have the patience to tune memory timings, so perhaps there's another way for me to get better latency and speed: Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced 2x16 kit (32GB total) that gives good latency/speed with minimal effort (okay, with nearly zero effort)? I've seen plenty of expensive kits with samsung b-die, but usually they require the hours/day/weeks of tweaking timings to get good performance out of them.
> 
> What does a lazy person do?


@*munternet *I have exp with SR DJR but DR... 

@*garyd9*
For a typical value firstly try 4000 17-21-39, leave others AUTO. Then run TM5 Ollie. If it can pass you can manually lower the timings based on the AUTO values.

Intel platform doesn't have such calculators. Everything you need to do is try it out. That's the fun of OC

There are some rules based on experience, like tWR=2tRTP, tRRDL=(1/n)tFAW, tWRWR_dg & tRDRD_dg have to be "4". You can look up some Intel DDR4 OC guides.

If you really don't have too much time, use mode 2, 4000 17-21-39, tRDRD_dg=4 and tWRWR_dg=4, tRFC=580, VDIMM=1.45, VCCIO&VCCSA=1.25, others AUTO.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> I think I've found about the optimal setting for my 2x16GB ram as far as io, sa, vdimm, bandwidth and latency are concerned
> Nothing is really pushed and the performance is reasonable so I'm looking at trialing this for my daily
> Passed Ollie so far
> View attachment 2458757


You may want to try tRDRD_dr=6 and lower. tRDRD_dr=7 on my rig is a no go...


----------



## sdch

Veeto said:


> I used to use this "Quick reference" as my absolute bible for Raja's ranges and general overclocking rules, since the site upgrade I can't see this post in full anymore, please if this is available elsewhere would love to see it.
> 
> Just gone from a 8700k to 9900kf on a pretty mid range mobo and looking to tighten a few things. Any advice appreciated. Thanks everyone, this forum\thread rules.
> View attachment 2458656


I found my old notes and fixed the post as much as possible. I don't really post anymore but I know a lot of people still find the information useful. Maybe I should back it up off-site to Github or something.



Code:


https://www.overclock.net/forum/27784556-post7836.html


----------



## garyd9

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If you really don't have too much time, use mode 2, 4000 17-21-39, tRDRD_dg=4 and tWRWR_dg=4, tRFC=580, VDIMM=1.45, VCCIO&VCCSA=1.25, others AUTO.


No luck. Fails TM5 (and IBT.) I don't have an "ollie" preset, but I was using the "[email protected]" preset I used with x570. Oh well. I appreciate you trying to help, but I suspect that the only "easy" way for me is going to be either live with what XMP loads on my current kit, or spending money for better memory (and then hoping that it at least has a low latency XMP preset -- or perhaps that one of the Asus provided presets works well enough.)

Maybe once I sell my 3900x and m/b, I can use the money to fund a decent memory kit.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You may want to try tRDRD_dr=6 and lower. tRDRD_dr=7 on my rig is a no go...


Cheers mate 
Changed a couple or the dr's
I hadn't tried altering them after messing with the ODT settings
Gained a good bit of read and copy


----------



## SunnyStefan

munternet said:


> I hadn't tried altering them after messing with the *ODT settings*


What ODT values have you been using as of recently? Can you still boot with the same frequency/timings if you set your ODTs to auto, or is that a no-go?
I briefly tried 80 / 40 / 40 but noticed no difference in boot time, stability, etc... I'm still playing around with it but I'm shooting in the dark.


----------



## munternet

SunnyStefan said:


> What ODT values have you been using as of recently? Can you still boot with the same frequency/timings if you set your ODTs to auto, or is that a no-go?
> I briefly tried 80 / 40 / 40 but noticed no difference in boot time, stability, etc... I'm still playing around with it but I'm shooting in the dark.


I just copied @Falkentyne 's & Tyllo 's settings of 80/48/40 and went with it. _Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
I don't know if it made a huge difference from auto but I managed to tighten the overclock and make really good gains without raising the io and vdimm at all and only raising the sa 0.01v going from 4200-17-17-17-34 to 4300-17-17-17-34
So far I have tested 3 hours and 48 minutes into Ollie with no errors but I have to play some BFV now so I will see how that goes 







Edit: A couple of hours BFV and I think we have a winner


----------



## the_real_7

itssladenlol said:


> LOL, nice Troll 2/10 for the effort tho.
> Dude cant be serious 😂


That's defantely a child response are you 15 no offense, if you are just work on your responses 😉. I lost a 9900k due do high sa and io voltage and a 7700k learned from that not to go to high from there. Be direct die are not. Degradation mostly happenes with high vcore over time.


----------



## cstkl1

Thebc2 said:


> Was literally wondering the same. Was considering that kit but it’s back ordered and the other timings seemed looser then the C17 kit. The C17 kit is available for 269 in the royals which is decent.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


thats a big markup
the 4kc16 and 4kc17 ..32gb royal silver dealer price is same usd 220


Thebc2 said:


> So much want (but in silver). Where did you find it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


ordered direct to gskill taiwan via reseller. Made to order via reseller


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 4000C16D-32GTRS is b-die.


U sure?? da price is same as the 4kc17


----------



## fly1ngh1gh

4533Mhz 16-16-16


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> U sure?? da price is same as the 4kc17


----------



## ducegt

Waiting for AIO cooler to come in the mail tomorrow before getting busy with Royal 4000CL17 32GB kit and Apex XII.

Below is Apex IX with BIOS mod. 4333 CL17 1.46v.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> View attachment 2458795


but are u sure. lol

nice. hmm now should i take dat.. still got chance to change.. 

how does it clock?? 

my 4kc17 4400 scaling pretty insane. taps cl15 @1.6v

max clock was [email protected]


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> but are u sure. lol
> 
> nice. hmm now should i take dat.. still got chance to change..
> 
> how does it clock??
> 
> my 4kc17 4400 scaling pretty insane. taps cl15 @1.6v
> 
> max clock was [email protected]


MAX 4600 16-17 1.64V with tightened timings, nothing different from 4kc17


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> MAX 4600 16-17 1.64V with tightened timings, nothing different from 4kc17


for me to tighten rtl for 4533/4600 required insane jump to 1.45v
compare to [email protected] 
so guessing something up.. its gaming stable but wont pass any test. 

finally hit 7k for 5.3ghz

10900k-SP81
M12E-098
*
53|51 @v/f 1.414 @L6
2x16gb 4400 [email protected]
txp/ppd 0/0
vccio/vcssa 1.25/1.25
*


----------



## ducegt

Gen. said:


> @ducegt
> Сколько раз мне повторять?


Hi Gen. I forgot that the Asrock Timing Utility does not read my board correctly. I'm sorry for the confusion, but thank you for your help. What I was running in that screenshot is below and I'm going to make a few changes to copy what you shared. There's a few mistakes in there, but nothing like things may appeared.

DRAM CAS# Latency [17]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [17]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [37]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [3]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [300]
DRAM Refresh Interval [32767]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [12]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [4]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [6]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [7]
DRAM Write Latency [18]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [15]
tRDWR_dg [15]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [35]
tWRRD_dg [35]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [6]
tRDWR_dr [16]
tRDWR_dd [16]
tWRWR_dr [8]
tWRWR_dd [8]
tWRRD_dr [8]
tWRRD_dd [8]
TWRPRE [31]
TRDPRE [6]


----------



## Coach2Morrow

Has anyone succesfully overclocked F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK on a 9700k z390 meg ace build? I'm mostly new to this and haven't gotten much success. My vccsa and vccio are at 1.25 and 1.23. Voltage at 1.4


----------



## SuperMumrik

@Betroz sent his kit over for testing. Aida is kinda boosted by cpu 
Seems like this kit dont't like straight primaries and iol lower than 8 for some reason


----------



## Gen.

@ducegt 
DRAM CAS# Latency [17]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [17]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [36]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [360]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [16]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [8]
DRAM Write Latency [16]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [14]
tRDWR_dg [14]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [30]
tWRRD_dg [26]
tRDRD_dr [0]
tRDRD_dd [0]
tRDWR_dr [0]
tRDWR_dd [0]
tWRWR_dr [0]
tWRWR_dd [0]
tWRRD_dr [0]
tWRRD_dd [0]
TWRPRE [36]
TRDPRE [8] 
DRAM Voltage=1.5V and lower, VCCIO=1.25 and lower, VCCSA 1.30 and lower.


----------



## ducegt

Gen. said:


> @ducegt


Thanks again. Using those settings, but with a lower tRFC. I can't post CL17 with RTLs lower than 63. 

I've tried leaving Init on auto and lowering offsets until 63/63 and setting the offsets fixed at 15 and lowering Init until it doesn't boot for the same RTL. Using Init 69 and offsets 21/21 does not post even while leaving the channel settings as auto.


----------



## Gen.

@ducegt
Do RTL in automatic mode and send me a screenshot here.
Set VTT, VPP, DMI to Auto and enable in Karhu - Advanced tab: CPU Cache Enabled!


----------



## ducegt

Gen. said:


> @ducegt


----------



## Gen.

DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [64]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
or
DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]

P.S. As I understand it here: *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread offset 15 was used?
P.S.S. Use the RTL group I suggested. She's correct. 6-6 or 7-7 - almost no difference (6-6 is better). Use what is stable.


----------



## cstkl1

10900k-SP81
M12E-Bios 098

*53|[email protected]/f 1.414 L6
2x16gb 4600 [email protected]
txp/ppd 0|0
vccio/vcssa 1.35/1.35*

















Final Daily

10900k-SP81
M12E-Bios 098

*51|[email protected]/f 1.274 L6
2x16gb 4400 [email protected]
txp/ppd 0|0
vccio/vcssa 1.25/1.25*


----------



## munternet

cstkl1 said:


> 10900k-SP81
> M12E-Bios 098
> 
> *53|[email protected]/f 1.414 L6
> 2x16gb 4600 [email protected]
> txp/ppd 0|0
> vccio/vcssa 1.35/1.35*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Final Daily
> 
> 10900k-SP81
> M12E-Bios 098
> 
> *51|[email protected]/f 1.274 L6
> 2x16gb 4400 [email protected]
> txp/ppd 0|0
> vccio/vcssa 1.25/1.25*


Nice voltages 
I might try 4400-18-18-18-38 again with my older 3600c16 sticks and see if I can lose some voltage


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> Nice voltages
> I might try 4400-18-18-18-38 again with my older 3600c16 sticks and see if I can lose some voltage


so far c17vs c18 i dont see any benefit. but c16 definately worth it for latency.

since these kits rated 1.4. hence y running at those tcl.. lets see what the 4266c17d-32's can do next week. those are rated 1.5v. if its the same as 4kc17 will use those but at 4400c16..

just being hopeful. trying to get 4533 going.

also will test this our on formula to see any diff. till date all my ram clocks subs are pretty inline with apex subs but not formula.


----------



## ducegt

Gen. said:


> P.S. As I understand it here: _Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread offset 15 was used?
> P.S.S. Use the RTL group I suggested. She's correct. 6-6 or 7-7 - almost no difference (6-6 is better). Use what is stable.


I was using offset 15 and then lowered Init until the RTLs got to 62/63 for CL16/17. My scores haven't changed much, but my copy speed is up a little and you've prepared to me to more properly use the Apex XII so again, thank you. IOLs 6-6 wouldn't post. Cache enabled in RAM test. Will test 17-17 next.


----------



## Imprezzion

Coach2Morrow said:


> Has anyone succesfully overclocked F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK on a 9700k z390 meg ace build? I'm mostly new to this and haven't gotten much success. My vccsa and vccio are at 1.25 and 1.23. Voltage at 1.4


Not that exact kit, mines a 32GB GTZR but still 3600C16 B-Die and I do have a lot of experience with that board.

3800 is about the max you can expect to run with a dual rank 32GB kit on that board.

Latency is where the profit is. It should be able to do like, 3733/3800 15-15-15-30-300-2T with 14 tWR and tCWL on like, 1.35 SA 1.30 IO 1.45 DRAM. Be sure to enable enhanced training for the IO/RTL and disable enhanced tertiary training. It helps a lot with training in this board.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Hey guys, I removed the ram heatsink without heat it up first , so I also peeled off some modules on the pcb. Gskill accept RMA my ram?


----------



## Coach2Morrow

Imprezzion said:


> Not that exact kit, mines a 32GB GTZR but still 3600C16 B-Die and I do have a lot of experience with that board.
> 
> 3800 is about the max you can expect to run with a dual rank 32GB kit on that board.
> 
> Latency is where the profit is. It should be able to do like, 3733/3800 15-15-15-30-300-2T with 14 tWR and tCWL on like, 1.35 SA 1.30 IO 1.45 DRAM. Be sure to enable enhanced training for the IO/RTL and disable enhanced tertiary training. It helps a lot with training in this board.


Tried that, was unstable at 14% on ram test


----------



## ghoula

Sorry for long post in advance....

Thing is , I got a new DR kit a few days back, the F4-3200C14D-32GTZR, board is a Gene XI with old 1105 bios, cpu is 8086K.
First, i got it to 4133C16, it was stable, HCi 400%, games, whatever.








tWRPRE was 31 , tWRPRE is 6 (not seen here) skew was set to 80 40 40, bios voltage was 1.45V VDDR, 1.28V IO, 1.32V SA, ( runs with 1.25/13V too) RTL/IOL typed in manually, c states off, 


Stupid greedy me thought, it is not enough, seeing yours z490 DR runs, heck, maybe new bios will get me to 4266, or even higher, because timing seems tight for me for given speed, but lacks bandwith. Tried higher speeds, failed so many times, but loading back this profile made it boot anytime.

This is where I made a big mistake, since flash clears saved profiles, but i made pictures of it. New bios on, typed in everything, and it fails to post, even on C17, CODE 55, 23, training loop, etc
only able to boot with 4000C17 into win. 
Ok, this bios suck, lets go back to 1105. And its the same. Whatever i do, i'm unable to make it post it over 4000, even with super relaxed timings.
ME fw version did not changed, so on paper, i am rolled back everything, yet still failed to reach what was running on this morning, half a day ago.
On what am i looking over? 

TLDR: me greedy, failed miserably, pls help


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Hey guys, I removed the ram heatsink without heat it up first , so I also peeled off some modules on the pcb. Gskill accept RMA my ram?


Just call them, and they will throw money at you! 

🙃


----------



## munternet

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Hey guys, I removed the ram heatsink without heat it up first , so I also peeled off some modules on the pcb. Gskill accept RMA my ram?


NOoooo 
What ram sticks? New or old?


----------



## Imprezzion

Coach2Morrow said:


> Tried that, was unstable at 14% on ram test


Then it's up to you to tweak manually. Just try to run something conservative first like 3733/3800 16-16-16-35-400-2T with all auto sub timings without enhancements enabled on the same voltages and see if that passes like, 400% or something like that as a baseline.

If it does, go lower on the primaries one by one so 15-16-16-35-400 first and find the unstable point.

If you settled on a stable primary + frequency start with tWR, tCWL and the accompanying tWRPRE (has to be set manually at tWR+tCWL+4 at all times) and continue from there.

I'll upload a screenshot tomorrow of my exact BIOS settings I run for 3850 14-15-15-30-300-2T before I switch to my 9900KS and Maxi Hero tomorrow when the package arrives.


----------



## lpittman

Hey guys,

Having some memory issues and don't have the time to thoroughly diagnose, nor wait for RMA, so I have to order some memory.

Running an z390 Aorus Master with the i9-9900k.

What's the best memory money can buy for this combination?

Need 32GB, 64 would also be fine.

Cheers


----------



## KedarWolf

What are peeps getting on z490 with older Trident Z non-RGB b-die 4x8GB CL16 3600MHz RAM.

I'm selling some locally and need to update my ad. It was basically the best 4x8GB kit for z390, I got 4200MHz stress-tested stable on a 9900k.

Anyone running that kit on z490 or can test it for me?

I went Team Red with a 3950x.

@Jpmboy


----------



## bscool

KedarWolf said:


> What are peeps getting on z490 with older Trident Z non-RGB b-die 4x8GB CL16 3600MHz RAM.
> 
> I'm selling some locally and need to update my ad. It was basically the best 4x8GB kit for z390, I got 4200MHz stress-tested stable on a 9900k.
> 
> Anyone running that kit on z490 or can test it for me?
> 
> I went Team Red with a 3950x.
> 
> @Jpmboy



I have used 4x8 in a Z490 Hero and MSI Uniy and the Hero did 4000c15-16-16 stable but after that I couldn't get 4133 stable even at something like 4133-17-18-18. On the Z490 Unify it will do 4400c18 but I never did any long term stability testing with 4x8 on the the Unify as 2x16 works better and with lower voltages. I don't have the 3600c16 kit you have but all the good b dies are similar. I was using the newer GSkill 4000c15 4x8.

So I would think depending on the board your sticks should do 4000-4400. Basically comes down to the board as Z490 is daisy chain and does better with 2 sticks.


----------



## Imprezzion

Coach2Morrow said:


> Tried that, was unstable at 14% on ram test


Here, these settings are 100% stable in any test you can imagine for my setup.


----------



## itssladenlol

Can anyone tell me why on Msi z490 ace when i Put twr 16 in BIOS, it actually rounds down to 15 when i Check with Timing configurator on Desktop. 
So when i Put 16 in BIOS it actually uses 15.
When i Put 17 in BIOS it uses 16.
Is there some rounding Option i need to disable?


----------



## nilssohn

ghoula said:


> TLDR: me greedy, failed miserably, pls help


Of course you have disabled MRC Fast Boot. If RoundTrip is set to enabled, put it to Auto. If you have set RTL/IOL, put them to Auto, same with ODT and slopes.

If this doesn't help, use a set of timings/subtimings that has been working before, maybe not too tight. Increase RAM clock boot by boot. Start e.g. with 3200 and step up 100 or 133 MHz with every successful boot. Good luck!


----------



## ghoula

nilssohn said:


> Of course you have disabled MRC Fast Boot. If RoundTrip is set to enabled, put it to Auto. If you have set RTL/IOL, put them to Auto, same with ODT and slopes.


Yes I did, thanks for the tip. 
Everything is back on track.


----------



## Coach2Morrow

Imprezzion said:


> Here, these settings are 100% stable in any test you can imagine for my setup.
> 
> View attachment 2458986
> View attachment 2458987
> View attachment 2458988
> View attachment 2458989
> View attachment 2458985


Okay, I'll look into all of it shortly, thanks for the help though! I'm running a 9700k so I'm not sure how much of a difference that'll make trying to push that set of memory. I would like to upgrade to the 9900kf soon.


----------



## SunnyStefan

These are my current daily settings. I still need to verify stability with GSAT but it hasn't had any issues in TM5 / Karhu / P95 112k FFTs / Escape from Tarkov yet. Gonna try for 4266mhz next.


----------



## cstkl1

FFT112

10900k - SP81
M12E - Bios 098

*51|48 - 1.273 v/f L6 vmin 1.15xx
2x16gb 4400 18-18-18-38 @1.40v
vccio/vcssa - 1.3/1.3
txp/ppd - 0/0









52|49 -1.373 v/f L6 vmin 1.24xx
2x16gb 4400 18-18-18-38 @1.40v
vccio/vcssa - 1.35/1.35
txp/ppd - 0/0*


----------



## ducegt

@SunnyStefan Looking good.

I got hands on with an Apex XII and 10850K today. CPU is doing all core 5.2 no avx 1.3v LLC8 with no problems. Temps in the 80s with AIO fans never going full speed. 

I'm hitting a memory wall between 4533 and 4600 with the Royal 2x16GB CL17 kit. I'm loading XMPII settings and setting 1.45v. I've tried 1.5v vDIMM, IO\SA up to 1.3\1.35 and 4600 crashes Karhu in seconds w/o errors. 4400 CL16 isn't looking promising either. I tried the ODT 80-40-40 trick with no improvement. 

Maybe a BIOS date could help out. I tried the 0088 beta too and ran into the same issues with Karhu throwing errors that the same settings in 0707 do not. I even verified all values in memtweak are the same between the two ROMs. 

I'm confused what acceptable IO and SA voltages. Some brief testing is showing me IO\SA 1.2\1.25v is enough for 4400 CL17 and @cstkl1 you seem to be better off then me with this kit, but I'm curious why your using such high IO\SA with 4400 CL18? Is the reason you're sharing screen shots of prime because your getting hardware\cache errors on the CPU?


----------



## cstkl1

ducegt said:


> @SunnyStefan Looking good.
> 
> I got hands on with an Apex XII and 10850K today. CPU is doing all core 5.2 no avx 1.3v LLC8 with no problems. Temps in the 80s with AIO fans never going full speed.
> 
> I'm hitting a memory wall between 4533 and 4600 with the Royal 2x16GB CL17 kit. I'm loading XMPII settings and setting 1.45v. I've tried 1.5v vDIMM, IO\SA up to 1.3\1.35 and 4600 crashes Karhu in seconds w/o errors. 4400 CL16 isn't looking promising either. I tried the ODT 80-40-40 trick with no improvement.
> 
> Maybe a BIOS date could help out. I tried the 0088 beta too and ran into the same issues with Karhu throwing errors that the same settings in 0707 do not. I even verified all values in memtweak are the same between the two ROMs.
> 
> I'm confused what acceptable IO and SA voltages. Some brief testing is showing me IO\SA 1.2\1.25v is enough for 4400 CL17 and @cstkl1 you seem to be better off then me with this kit, but I'm curious why your using such high IO\SA with 4400 CL18? Is the reason you're sharing screen shots of prime because your getting hardware\cache errors on the CPU?


FFT112 and cpu/cache..
higher u go the more you need.

its sharing so ppl will realize the correlation

[email protected] dats really not bad.. screenshot with prime small fft 80 30mins?? cause thats the highest clocked 10850 that decent i have seen... vmin should be 1.27-1.28.. thats pretty much sp80's cpu...

did u post a v/f of that cpu??


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> 51|48 - 1.273 v/f L6 vmin 1.15xx


Your SP81 chip seems to be about 200 Mhz better than my SP63, meaning that what vcore your CPU need at 5.1 is what mine needs at 4.9 (give or take some). My CPU needs a VMIN of 1.217v at 5.0/4.8 Ghz core/ring setting. Wondering about getting a new 10900K, but chances are that I will just get another SP63.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Your SP81 chip seems to be about 200 Mhz better than my SP63, meaning that what vcore your CPU need at 5.1 is what mine needs at 4.9 (give or take some). My CPU needs a VMIN of 1.217v at 5.0/4.8 Ghz core/ring setting. Wondering about getting a new 10900K, but chances are that I will just get another SP63.


luck

out of 7 cpu i got 2 x sp 5x, 3 x sp 63, 1 x sp 7x, 1x sp81.. this sp81 is abnormal btw










sp63 in there .. waiting for rams/gpu. will show ya 51ghz is doable even with ryujin aio 360..

anyway already offered my help with ya but was declined. so lol.

btw if u do 50/48.. the vid is based on cache. not cpu. which is y i am not doing 51|49, 52|50, 53|51


----------



## itssladenlol

Switched from Maximus XII hero z490 4400mhz dual rank to msi ace z490 4400 dual rank. 

Same settings, latency 5ns higher. 

Is msi Bios bugged? 
I read now all people have the Same Problem on msi z490 with bugged way too high latency. 

For example, even with 4600 c17 i have 41 ns with trained good rtls and iols


----------



## Gen.

@itssladenlol Set PPD = 0, and if there is no such, then tXP = 4


----------



## Betroz

Gen. said:


> then tXP = 4


What is this talk about tXP4 giving people stutters in games? Many say that tXP 6 is better in this regard.


----------



## bro_drey

What limits are there to what ddr4 ram I may put in my Alienware r9 pc it came with dual 8 gb 2666mhz With 4 ram slots. I know I can’t mix them due to BIOs recognition but if I were to take out the two 8gb 2666mhz Kingston’s and switch them with dual 16gb hyper x fury @3200 would I run into any problems? It’s an code i7 9700 . (Sorry guys I’m new to pc world if this question seems ridiculous please bear with me everyone started somewhere)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Lol this ASUS Maxi Hero is soooo different in terms of BIOS compared to my MSI Z390 Ace...

Can someone give me a quick and dirty settings list for DRAM OC? I mean. It doesn't matter what I do or set or whatever, it just POST loops all the time back to safe mode.

Even simple stuff like 4000CL19 doesn't even attempt to pass POST at 1.4v SA 1.35v IO 1,6v DRAM.

I'm probably doing something simple wrong I just don't see it..

I mean, it can boot the 3600CL16 XMP profile just fine but if I even raise that to 1.55v DRAM and 3800Mhz it still doesn't even attempt to POST while my Z390 Ace will run those exact settings all day.

It might also be the CPU, I mean this is a new to me 9900KS with a different stepping compared to the P0 9900K I use in the MSI board.

I'm thinking of putting this CPU in the MSI Ace and seeing what that will do. Problem is. I'm out of Conductonaut and new order only arrives in 2 days. I'll have to settle for normal PK-3 then at first or just re-use the Conductonaut lol.

EDIT: I'm starting to suspect the CPU honestly.
Even with my 2x8GB SR B-Die kit that is known capable of 4266C16 it will not boot anything over 3600 ish on the Maximus with the 9900KS.

I will probably swap the KS into the MSI board and give that a shot with both my SR 2x8 and DR 2x16 kit but I'm really thinking this purchase was a total dud.


----------



## itssladenlol

Gen. said:


> @itssladenlol Set PPD = 0, and if there is no such, then tXP = 4


As i said Same settings on both boards.
And txp ppd isnt 5ns Difference anyway.
Just got confirmed from msi dev via YouTube channel that msi z490 Bios is indeed latency bugged.
5-6ns slower than Asus and Gigabyte boards.
Z490 ITX Unify got fixed Bios already.
ATX boards still waiting for fix


----------



## ducegt

cstkl1 said:


> FFT112 and cpu/cache..
> higher u go the more you need.
> 
> its sharing so ppl will realize the correlation
> 
> [email protected] dats really not bad.. screenshot with prime small fft 80 30mins?? cause thats the highest clocked 10850 that decent i have seen... vmin should be 1.27-1.28.. thats pretty much sp80's cpu...
> 
> did u post a v/f of that cpu??


Thanks for sharing, I was just curious.

1.4v vcore set, vdroops to ~1.3v LLC6. Not sure if p95 is configured how you requested. I just used small preset.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Lol this ASUS Maxi Hero is soooo different in terms of BIOS compared to my MSI Z390 Ace...
> 
> Can someone give me a quick and dirty settings list for DRAM OC? I mean. It doesn't matter what I do or set or whatever, it just POST loops all the time back to safe mode.
> 
> Even simple stuff like 4000CL19 doesn't even attempt to pass POST at 1.4v SA 1.35v IO 1,6v DRAM.
> 
> I'm probably doing something simple wrong I just don't see it..
> 
> I mean, it can boot the 3600CL16 XMP profile just fine but if I even raise that to 1.55v DRAM and 3800Mhz it still doesn't even attempt to POST while my Z390 Ace will run those exact settings all day.
> 
> It might also be the CPU, I mean this is a new to me 9900KS with a different stepping compared to the P0 9900K I use in the MSI board.
> 
> I'm thinking of putting this CPU in the MSI Ace and seeing what that will do. Problem is. I'm out of Conductonaut and new order only arrives in 2 days. I'll have to settle for normal PK-3 then at first or just re-use the Conductonaut lol.
> 
> EDIT: I'm starting to suspect the CPU honestly.
> Even with my 2x8GB SR B-Die kit that is known capable of 4266C16 it will not boot anything over 3600 ish on the Maximus with the 9900KS.
> 
> I will probably swap the KS into the MSI board and give that a shot with both my SR 2x8 and DR 2x16 kit but I'm really thinking this purchase was a total dud.


What bios are you on? 0602 is on of the better one and the latest 1602 is good for me also. Don't you have 4 stick to try? That board doesn't do very good on 2x8. It should do 4000 but it can be picky depending on the sticks with 2x8. 4x8 should do 4133-4400.

If you are talking about the 2x16 then I think 3800 was all I could get stable. 4x16 worked at 3800c16 also, I did not do any long term stability test with 4x16 just quick benches.


----------



## bscool

itssladenlol said:


> Switched from Maximus XII hero z490 4400mhz dual rank to msi ace z490 4400 dual rank.
> 
> Same settings, latency 5ns higher.
> 
> Is msi Bios bugged?
> I read now all people have the Same Problem on msi z490 with bugged way too high latency.
> 
> For example, even with 4600 c17 i have 41 ns with trained good rtls and iols


What bios are you using? The test bios is what I have found to get the best performance.https://community.hwbot.org/topic/198450-msi-z490-meg-family-test-bios/


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> What bios are you using? The test bios is what I have found to get the best performance.https://community.hwbot.org/topic/198450-msi-z490-meg-family-test-bios/
> 
> View attachment 2459089


The most recent is A.2V, released Sep 14.

All MEG series here:





Z490 Test - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## bscool

itssladenlol said:


> As i said Same settings on both boards.
> And txp ppd isnt 5ns Difference anyway.
> Just got confirmed from msi dev via YouTube channel that msi z490 Bios is indeed latency bugged.
> 5-6ns slower than Asus and Gigabyte boards.
> Z490 ITX Unify got fixed Bios already.
> ATX boards still waiting for fix


I have had both boards and they were pretty close in latency when both have all timings tightened up. If you leave timings on default the MSI is higher. MSI sets TXP and tXPDLL and other timings higher on default, if you lower them it can reduce latency a good 3-4ns. I have another z490 Hero coming to try the newer 2x16 Gskills as the Team 2x16 kits I have would not go past 4133.



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The most recent is A.2V, released Sep 14.
> 
> All MEG series here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z490 Test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Thank you I will check it out.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> What bios are you on? 0602 is on of the better one and the latest 1602 is good for me also. Don't you have 4 stick to try? That board doesn't do very good on 2x8. It should do 4000 but it can be picky depending on the sticks with 2x8. 4x8 should do 4133-4400.
> 
> If you are talking about the 2x16 then I think 3800 was all I could get stable. 4x16 worked at 3800c16 also, I did not do any long term stability test with 4x16 just quick benches.


1602 is what the board came with. I switched the 9900KS into my MSI and while it did do a much higher memory overclock, it booted 4133 CL17 just fine with 2x16GB, even with a delid and direct die it ran super hot at a lower voltage and drew way way more power then my P0 9900K. That thing does 5.1 core 4.8 cache at 1.256v VR VOut at about 90-92c drawing ~260w in FMA3/AVX Prime95 as a absolute maximum OC with just a lapped IHS and Conductonaut. No delid.

The KS with a derbauer delid die mate plate and direct die Conductonaut did 5.1/4.8 @ 1.196v VR VOut but with 100c throttling and 310-320w power draw.. I could barely get 5Ghz stable with how hot that thing ran lol. And due to the fact a KS is a R0 stepping with hardware mitigation for spectre and such it actually has a LOWER IPC then a P0 so there's zero redeeming factors for the KS or the Maximus as the MSI Ace and P0 K do better in every single scenario.

Well, as soon as the FTW3 3080 is available I'll buy that and sell the KS, Maxi, and my 2080Ti as a full set paired with the 2x8GB B-Die kit and a 750w seasonic focus gold lol.


----------



## ducegt

Would anyone with an Apex XII and 2x16GB B-die kit be willing to export a profile to USB and share with me? Ideally with VDIMM 1.45v and RTL,IOLS manually set would be ideal.

I'm pulling my hair out getting anything above XMP stable with the 4000CL17 Royals. Even with 1.5v VDIMM, IO and SA at 1.35v, and 18-19 primaries I'm getting errors within seconds to minutes.


----------



## Nizzen

ducegt said:


> Would anyone with an Apex XII and 2x16GB B-die kit be willing to export a profile to USB and share with me? Ideally with VDIMM 1.45v and RTL,IOLS manually set would be ideal.
> 
> I'm pulling my hair out getting anything above XMP stable with the 4000CL17 Royals. Even with 1.5v VDIMM, IO and SA at 1.35v, and 18-19 primaries I'm getting errors within seconds to minutes.


Have you checked the dimm temp?


----------



## itssladenlol

bscool said:


> I have had both boards and they were pretty close in latency when both have all timings tightened up. If you leave timings on default the MSI is higher. MSI sets TXP and tXPDLL and other timings higher on default, if you lower them it can reduce latency a good 3-4ns. I have another z490 Hero coming to try the newer 2x16 Gskills as the Team 2x16 kits I have would not go past 4133.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you I will check it out.


Thank you so much, i downloaded and Updated Bios, changed ppd to 0.
Right now 4500 2x16gb dual rank c18 @1,50v is running gsat.
No errors yet.
If 4500 is actually stable at 1,5v im ****ting my pants.
Didnt tune rtls or iols at all and its 36,5ns now .
I think with 4600 c17 and tuned rtls iols i can hit 34ns.

This msi board is the Best ive ever had.
Had maximus XII before and it would need 20 boots to train 4400 with Same sticks.
Everything over 4400 dual rank was impossible.
Msi boots 4600 with this sticks every try, i have yet to press the Reset Button or cmos clear.
It recovers from everything like a Champ and trains 4600 in a matter of 5 seconds.

Happy i didnt change to the apex, the msi even boots 4700 on this dual rank sticks lol.


----------



## itssladenlol

bscool said:


> I have had both boards and they were pretty close in latency when both have all timings tightened up. If you leave timings on default the MSI is higher. MSI sets TXP and tXPDLL and other timings higher on default, if you lower them it can reduce latency a good 3-4ns. I have another z490 Hero coming to try the newer 2x16 Gskills as the Team 2x16 kits I have would not go past 4133.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you I will check it out.


Can you tell me values for txpdll and the other values?








Cause on Auto its 39 and I didnt write down Timings from Asus before..


----------



## ducegt

Nizzen said:


> Have you checked the dimm temp?


After 40 minutes of stress testing 1.486v they peaked at 67 and 68C. Way too hot eh.


----------



## garyd9

Looks like I'll be shopping for new RAM fairly soon. Of the following, which one would be easiest for the lazy person who doesn't want to spend days tweaking their RAM? (Yet, I still want decent performance for the cost!) I also understand that bigger frequency numbers might not be as meaningful depending on latency. However, I'm clueless on tweaking RAM and would just like the best bang for the buck at XMP with perhaps minor tweaking to start... and saving the extensive tweaking for later down the road (perhaps in the winter.) No matter what, anything I set the RAM for needs to be 24/7 stable.

Motherboard/CPU is an Asus maximus 12 hero (z490) and the CPU is a i9-10850K

F4-4000C16D-32GTZR (4000 16-19-19-39 @1.4)
F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB (4000 17-18-18-38 @1.4)
F4-3600C16D-32GTZR (3600 16-16-16-36 @1.35)

Thanks
Gary


----------



## cstkl1

itssladenlol said:


> Thank you so much, i downloaded and Updated Bios, changed ppd to 0.
> Right now 4500 2x16gb dual rank c18 @1,50v is running gsat.
> No errors yet.
> If 4500 is actually stable at 1,5v im ****ting my pants.
> Didnt tune rtls or iols at all and its 36,5ns now .
> I think with 4600 c17 and tuned rtls iols i can hit 34ns.
> 
> This msi board is the Best ive ever had.
> Had maximus XII before and it would need 20 boots to train 4400 with Same sticks.
> Everything over 4400 dual rank was impossible.
> Msi boots 4600 with this sticks every try, i have yet to press the Reset Button or cmos clear.
> It recovers from everything like a Champ and trains 4600 in a matter of 5 seconds.
> 
> Happy i didnt change to the apex, the msi even boots 4700 on this dual rank sticks lol.


Errr i am fastbooting m12e with 4600c16..
So dunno what u talking about


----------



## bscool

itssladenlol said:


> Can you tell me values for txpdll and the other values?
> Cause on Auto its 39 and I didnt write down Timings from Asus before..


This going by memory so it could be off but I thought what I had in Memtweakit was

When *Mode 1* set in Asus bios
tXPDLL - 29
tXP - 8
tXS_offset - 5

*Mode 2*
tXPDLL - 25
tXP - 7
tXS_offset - 5


Note; I could not find tXS offset in MSI bios unless by another name.

If you set PPD to Off or 0 I don't think there is as much of difference when changing the tXP settings or not that I have been able to tell.

Yeah I am impressed with the Unify. I have a z490 Apex also and it is super slow to train 2x16gb memory compared to the Unify. But once it is trained Apex boots fast. It could be my memory though as I just have the older Team 2x16 sticks, still waiting on the new 2x16 Gskill to get here.


----------



## cstkl1

ducegt said:


> Thanks for sharing, I was just curious.
> 
> 1.4v vcore set, vdroops to ~1.3v LLC6. Not sure if p95 is configured how you requested. I just used small preset.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2459083
> 
> 
> View attachment 2459085


u got so many things hidden like kindda pointless this screenshot. 

but nvrmimd. dats da first 10850k dat i have see a 10900k lvl.


----------



## ducegt

cstkl1 said:


> u got so many things hidden like kindda pointless this screenshot.
> 
> but nvrmimd. dats da first 10850k dat i have see a 10900k lvl.


Not trying to hide anything. Unlocked limits. 1.4v manual vcore at LLC6. No throttling of any kind or hardware errors.

I'm very lucky the CPU was so easy to work with because the RAM has me stressing. I bought the 4000CL17 32gb kit in part because you praised it so much  Gskill has the Apex XII on the QVL, but Asus doesn't have the kit on their QVL. I'm no expert, but I believe it's not training consistently. I'm struggling to set all the RTLs\IOLs manually. Mode 2 gets them very good at times (RTL 64s, IOLs 8s @ 4400CL17; not stable tho) but when I set the values manually, I can't post. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? My guess is I'm setting the Init values wrong.


----------



## bscool

ducegt said:


> After 40 minutes of stress testing 1.486v they peaked at 67 and 68C. Way too hot eh.


Yikes that is HOT. I would try and keep them under 50c at most. But if you are getting errors within second like your other post said then it cant just be heat. It must be a setting. I don't have my z490 Apex connected right now but when I do I can try and send you a profile to try or look at.

Hopefully someone else helps you or you get it figured out before then because it will be at soonest this weekend till I will have the Apex running again.


----------



## ducegt

bscool said:


> Yikes that is HOT. I would try and keep them under 50c at most. But if you are getting errors within second like your other post said then it cant just be heat. It must be a setting. I don't have my z490 Apex connected right now but when I do I can try and send you a profile to try or look at.
> 
> Hopefully someone else helps you or you get it figured out before then because it will be at soonest this weekend till I will have the Apex running again.


Thanks. These things run pretty hot at stock. 18 minutes into a test now vdimm @ 1.44v and 55C. I agree it's not the heat crashing me. I think It's the memory training (Mode 1) for RTLs and IOLs. I can use IO Offset to get RTLs to set low as expected, but doing so isn't tightening the IOLs. Using Mode 2 the IOLs drop to 8s, but the system is unstable; occasionally gets into windows, but will freeze a second into a test and code 55s. I've also resorted to CL18 due to them running hot. For the life of me I can't get the IOLs set manually. The Aida64 scores seem good with all things considered so I won't be too terribly upset if this is all they can manage so long as they are stable.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> This going by memory so it could be off but I thought what I had in Memtweakit was
> 
> When *Mode 1* set in Asus bios
> tXPDLL - 29
> tXP - 8
> tXS_offset - 5
> 
> *Mode 2*
> tXPDLL - 25
> tXP - 7
> tXS_offset - 5
> 
> 
> Note; I could not find tXS offset in MSI bios unless by another name.
> 
> If you set PPD to Off or 0 I don't think there is as much of difference when changing the tXP settings or not that I have been able to tell.
> 
> Yeah I am impressed with the Unify. I have a z490 Apex also and it is super slow to train 2x16gb memory compared to the Unify. But once it is trained Apex boots fast. It could be my memory though as I just have the older Team 2x16 sticks, still waiting on the new 2x16 Gskill to get here.


According to the 10gen datasheet, there are 3 states of CKE: APD, PPD/DLL-off and PPD.

APD is 0 by default. If you set PPD=0, the 3rd state is also disabled. The only state remain is PPD/DLL-off. The exiting time is defined by tXP and also tXPDLL.


----------



## itssladenlol

cstkl1 said:


> Errr i am fastbooting m12e with 4600c16..
> So dunno what u talking about


And im talking About the hero.
I buy the hero every year and this year its complete garbage. 
Booting over 4400 with dual rank is impossible even with odt. 
Single rank 4600 was the Limit. 
Ace boots 4700 dual rank without even trying.


----------



## bscool

ducegt said:


> Thanks. These things run pretty hot at stock. 18 minutes into a test now vdimm @ 1.44v and 55C. I agree it's not the heat crashing me. I think It's the memory training (Mode 1) for RTLs and IOLs. I can use IO Offset to get RTLs to set low as expected, but doing so isn't tightening the IOLs. Using Mode 2 the IOLs drop to 8s, but the system is unstable; occasionally gets into windows, but will freeze a second into a test and code 55s. I've also resorted to CL18 due to them running hot. For the life of me I can't get the IOLs set manually. The Aida64 scores seem good with all things considered so I won't be too terribly upset if this is all they can manage so long as they are stable.


Have you tried the beta bios 0088 ? You should be able to get your latency down another 1-2ns to 38-39ns if you want to try it out. Leave TXP on auto/default set PPD to 0


ROG Maximus XII Apex


----------



## cstkl1

ducegt said:


> Not trying to hide anything. Unlocked limits. 1.4v manual vcore at LLC6. No throttling of any kind or hardware errors.
> 
> I'm very lucky the CPU was so easy to work with because the RAM has me stressing. I bought the 4000CL17 32gb kit in part because you praised it so much  Gskill has the Apex XII on the QVL, but Asus doesn't have the kit on their QVL. I'm no expert, but I believe it's not training consistently. I'm struggling to set all the RTLs\IOLs manually. Mode 2 gets them very good at times (RTL 64s, IOLs 8s @ 4400CL17; not stable tho) but when I set the values manually, I can't post. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? My guess is I'm setting the Init values wrong.


no need to use mode 2. mode 1.


----------



## cstkl1

itssladenlol said:


> And im talking About the hero.
> I buy the hero every year and this year its complete garbage.
> Booting over 4400 with dual rank is impossible even with odt.
> Single rank 4600 was the Limit.
> Ace boots 4700 dual rank without even trying.


one of da reason i am curious about formula as well. will test next week with da new kits. 

currently love my 4k 17 so much dont want to touch them in da case.


----------



## Falkentyne

ducegt said:


> Thanks. These things run pretty hot at stock. 18 minutes into a test now vdimm @ 1.44v and 55C. I agree it's not the heat crashing me. I think It's the memory training (Mode 1) for RTLs and IOLs. I can use IO Offset to get RTLs to set low as expected, but doing so isn't tightening the IOLs. Using Mode 2 the IOLs drop to 8s, but the system is unstable; occasionally gets into windows, but will freeze a second into a test and code 55s. I've also resorted to CL18 due to them running hot. For the life of me I can't get the IOLs set manually. The Aida64 scores seem good with all things considered so I won't be too terribly upset if this is all they can manage so long as they are stable.
> 
> View attachment 2459140


Try 62/63/7/7, 62/63/8/8 or 62/63/6/6 or 61/62/6/6.

One of these should work perfectly. 
Also please set tWRWR_sg to 7. 6 actually hurts your write.


----------



## itssladenlol

bscool said:


> This going by memory so it could be off but I thought what I had in Memtweakit was
> 
> When *Mode 1* set in Asus bios
> tXPDLL - 29
> tXP - 8
> tXS_offset - 5
> 
> *Mode 2*
> tXPDLL - 25
> tXP - 7
> tXS_offset - 5
> 
> 
> Note; I could not find tXS offset in MSI bios unless by another name.
> 
> If you set PPD to Off or 0 I don't think there is as much of difference when changing the tXP settings or not that I have been able to tell.
> 
> Yeah I am impressed with the Unify. I have a z490 Apex also and it is super slow to train 2x16gb memory compared to the Unify. But once it is trained Apex boots fast. It could be my memory though as I just have the older Team 2x16 sticks, still waiting on the new 2x16 Gskill to get here.


Whats the difference in Mode 1 and Mode 2 for ram in msi Bios. 
And how to properly train RTL IOL on that board? 
When i manually enter the RTL and IOL that the board trains on Auto, i get Black Screen and need to cmos clear. 
Havent found a way to manually Put them on msi board, always Black Screen and no Boot


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> Whats the difference in Mode 1 and Mode 2 for ram in msi Bios.
> And how to properly train RTL IOL on that board?
> When i manually enter the RTL and IOL that the board trains on Auto, i get Black Screen and need to cmos clear.
> Havent found a way to manually Put them on msi board, always Black Screen and no Boot


That happens on my Z390 Ace as well, I just adjust them with offset and initials however setting auto enhanced for the RTL IO usually trains just as low as manually setting them so. I just stick with that. 3850C14-15-15-30-300-2T (3800 divider with 104.12 BCLK) trains auto enhanced at 56/56/57/57/6/6/7/7 and I never managed to get it any lower manually.


----------



## ducegt

bscool said:


> Have you tried the beta bios 0088 ?


Yes, it was more unstable for me and I was setting those values with memtweak.



Falkentyne said:


> Try 62/63/7/7, 62/63/8/8 or 62/63/6/6 or 61/62/6/6.
> 
> One of these should work perfectly.
> Also please set tWRWR_sg to 7. 6 actually hurts your write.


Thanks Falkentyne, I had already stolen your timings and I observed setting to 7 indeed improved write. 

Regarding the RTLs, I believe those are way too low for 4400CL18. The kit is 2x16GB DS and below is my an example of my workflow.

1) Boot RTL\IOLs all on auto: 71-71 13-13. 
_ In the BIOS there are RTL values for each rank so RTL A Rank 0, RTL A Rank 1 (same for IOLs), so when you say 62 for example, I assume 62 for both Ranks which is generally how the board trains, but I have seen the value differ by 1 between the ranks...anyway

2) _Using Mode 1, I lower the IO Latency Offset until failing to POST. I land on Offsets 17-17 which brings down the RTLs to 67 on all four ranks in Auto mode, but IOLs stay at 13s. I manually set all four ranks to 67 and boot ok.

3) I can post with manually setting the IOLs for all four franks at 13 as well, but if I drop them to 12s, code 55 and training takes forever.


----------



## KedarWolf

Imprezzion said:


> That happens on my Z390 Ace as well, I just adjust them with offset and initials however setting auto enhanced for the RTL IO usually trains just as low as manually setting them so. I just stick with that. 3850C14-15-15-30-300-2T (3800 divider with 104.12 BCLK) trains auto enhanced at 56/56/57/57/6/6/7/7 and I never managed to get it any lower manually.


How I used to manually set my RTL's and IOL's etc. low on my Z390 is I'd set all my timings as I'm used to with IOL's and TRL's on Auto, reboot, change RAM speed to something like 2666 with IOL's and RTL's on Auto, reboot, see what they are at on Auto, then manually set them to that, they'll be low, reset my RAM speed to 4200MHZ or whatever I usually run it at, reboot, then the manual settings would work.

Seems there is some fixed formula to how they need to be set or won't boot. If 2666 don't work try 3200 or 3600 IOL's etc, a RAM speed on the divider you use.


----------



## Falkentyne

ducegt said:


> Yes, it was more unstable for me and I was setting those values with memtweak.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Falkentyne, I had already stolen your timings and I observed setting to 7 indeed improved write.
> 
> Regarding the RTLs, I believe those are way too low for 4400CL18. The kit is 2x16GB DS and below is my an example of my workflow.
> 
> 1) Boot RTL\IOLs all on auto: 71-71 13-13.
> _ In the BIOS there are RTL values for each rank so RTL A Rank 0, RTL A Rank 1 (same for IOLs), so when you say 62 for example, I assume 62 for both Ranks which is generally how the board trains, but I have seen the value differ by 1 between the ranks...anyway
> 
> 2) _Using Mode 1, I lower the IO Latency Offset until failing to POST. I land on Offsets 17-17 which brings down the RTLs to 67 on all four ranks in Auto mode, but IOLs stay at 13s. I manually set all four ranks to 67 and boot ok.
> 
> 3) I can post with manually setting the IOLs for all four franks at 13 as well, but if I drop them to 12s, code 55 and training takes forever.


I'm able to run my 2x16 3200 CL14's at 4400 16/17/17/34 with 62/63/7/7, which I got from Tyllo's Z490 Apex timings on his sticks, but I can't get it 100% stable, because I messed with something trying to be cute after it was 1 hour anta777 stable (passes 112k FFT AVX disabled easily), but I have a M12E and he has an Apex. So I'm very surprised you can't do those RTL's, unless 18/18/18 is somehow different than 16/17/17 or 17/17/17. Might be IMC related on my part as I've heard complaints about IMC on some ES chips. I get like 1 TM5 error in 20 minutes, and I also used his ODT Wr/Park/Nom values of 80/48/40 and DllBwen=0 also. Pretty sure it's my ES IMC not liking something as I doubt changing from 1.50v to 1.51v would suddenly fix that. I've had it running COD MW/Warzone and Overwatch all day with no errors but 1 TM5 error isn't something I want to daily. And I don't want to waste 8 hours messing with it either, like seeing if tRAS wants 36 instead of 34 or if some other timing or voltage needs to be changed (I know 17/17/17 would work completely fine for example). What I don't get is i had TM5 pass for an hour (one full cycle) then i started messing with tightening stuff and now I can't figure out if it's something I tightened causing it (I deleted the stable profile). I don't know why I deleted the stable profile. I guess I enjoy watching the world burn.

Anyway: did you try 62/63/7/7 just for kicks? If that's an Apex, and you're at 16/16/16/36 or 16/17/17/36 at 4400 mhz, that's basically guaranteed to at least POST.

Don't forget to go to skew control and set ODT WR/Park/Nom to 80/48/40 and also DLLBwen=0 and see if those help you too.

_Edit_
ok I think I fixed the problem with the 20 minute TM1 error.
Loosened up my timings back to what was originally 1 hour stable, ran anta777 and passed 46 minutes and ended the test since I clearly made progress and I can't be bothered--I want to play my video games now.

Anyway those RTL/IOL settings should work if you have the same kit/board (Apex/Maximus extreme and 2x16 3200 CL14's). There's no reason why it wouldn't work.
And try 16/17/17/36 @ 1.50v vdimm, wr/park/nom 80/48/40, DLLBwen=0 and see if my timings I posted help you. If it's the same kit (2020 sticks) and board, no reason why it won't work.


----------



## BananaHammock

BananaHammock--i9-9900K @4.85/4.44---3933Mhz-C15-14-14-30-2T Linpack Xtreme 1.1.3 - 30 passes


----------



## Gen.

@Falkentyne 
tWRPRE=32 (tWR=12)
tRDPRE=6 (tRTP=6)
tREFI=65024
tWRRD_sg=25 (tWTR_S=3)
tWRRD_dr=6
tRDRD_dd=0
tRDWR_dd=0
tWRRD_dd=0
tWRWR_dd=0
may be RDWR=10/10/10.
Your RTL:
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [63]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [63]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]


----------



## cstkl1

"i believe i can fly"
gonna be doing tuf 3080 testing


10900k - SP81
M12E - Bios 098
*
51|48 v/f 1.274 L6
txp/pp - 0/0
2x16gb 4133 15-16-16-35 @1.5v
vccio/vcssa -1.00/1.100










2x16gb 4400 16-17-17-36 @1.5v
vccio/vcssa - 1.30/1.30








*


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Try 62/63/7/7, 62/63/8/8 or 62/63/6/6 or 61/62/6/6.
> 
> One of these should work perfectly.
> Also please set tWRWR_sg to 7. 6 actually hurts your write.


dats not how rtl works. dats how buildzoid think it does.


----------



## ducegt

Is formula for Init ((Offset + Delay + (2 x tCL))?

I'm still having issues with the new rig, but I'm almost certain it's not RTLs and perhaps not the RAM at all. I'll swap RAM with an Apex IX to test this weekend possibly.

With XMPII (4000CL17), MCE ON (no limits) and everything Auto, but setting IO and SA to 1.3 and 1.32... the system reboots in Karhu sometimes in less than 10 minutes. No BSOD, just straight reboot. I'm also getting lots of hard locks\freezes. I've never got Karhru to run more than 2 hours on any setting so I'm going to let it run over night on everything Auto including IO and SA at 1.4 and 1.5v. I tried reseating the sticks and swapping their order already. 

The only good news is the person this rig is for didn't snag a 3080 this morning so I'm under less pressure to get things sorted out.


----------



## Falkentyne

Gen. said:


> @Falkentyne
> tWRPRE=32 (tWR=12)
> tRDPRE=6 (tRTP=6)
> tREFI=65024
> tWRRD_sg=25 (tWTR_S=3)
> tWRRD_dr=6
> tRDRD_dd=0
> tRDWR_dd=0
> tWRRD_dd=0
> tWRWR_dd=0
> may be RDWR=10/10/10.
> Your RTL:
> DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [62]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [62]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [63]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [63]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]


Did not work.
Failed on Post code 7F repeatedly,
Then safe mode...


----------



## cstkl1

ducegt said:


> Is formula for Init ((Offset + Delay + (2 x tCL))?
> 
> I'm still having issues with the new rig, but I'm almost certain it's not RTLs and perhaps not the RAM at all. I'll swap RAM with an Apex IX to test this weekend possibly.
> 
> With XMPII (4000CL17), MCE ON (no limits) and everything Auto, but setting IO and SA to 1.3 and 1.32... the system reboots in Karhu sometimes in less than 10 minutes. No BSOD, just straight reboot. I'm also getting lots of hard locks\freezes. I've never got Karhru to run more than 2 hours on any setting so I'm going to let it run over night on everything Auto including IO and SA at 1.4 and 1.5v. I tried reseating the sticks and swapping their order already.
> 
> The only good news is the person this rig is for didn't snag a 3080 this morning so I'm under less pressure to get things sorted out.


ok lets start off false myth.
theres no such thing as lower init rtl to focus training in this current age.

btw are you not running this on z490??

ok read abit on your post. dont up thr vccsa/vccio so high. also if u have to use it try diff multipliers for 4000


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Did not work.
> Failed on Post code 7F repeatedly,
> Then safe mode...


of course that is gonna happen. @Gen. doesnt know asus uses different internal cke clocks compared to asrock config.

u dont need odt, skews.

4533/4600 atm the required vcssa/vccio kindda dumb to get it stable. 

3800c14/4000c15 vccio/vcssa 0.95/1.05
4133c15 needed a slight bump 1/1.1
4266c16 needed 1.25/1.25
4400c16 needed bump 1.3/1.3

4533/4600 benching/gaming is fine at vccio/vcssa 1.35v.. but stable definitely above 1.4. not a price i am willing to pay.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> 4533/4600 benching/gaming is fine at vccio/vcssa 1.35v.. but stable definitely above 1.4. not a price i am willing to pay.


Yeah finding a sweetspot is not a bad idea. But you have a good CPU, so the IMC in that probably needs less IO/SA than a typical SP63 chip. Is 4400 C18 your goto setup or 4266 C16?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Yeah finding a sweetspot is not a bad idea. But you have a good CPU, so the IMC in that probably needs less IO/SA than a typical SP63 chip. Is 4400 C18 your goto setup or 4266 C16?


4400c18 the go to. 

sp63 i will know next week when i fully test the one here. 
so far old test was 15min bin.. stop. pack .. change..nvr tested imc

so imc part good question.


----------



## bscool

itssladenlol said:


> Whats the difference in Mode 1 and Mode 2 for ram in msi Bios.
> And how to properly train RTL IOL on that board?
> When i manually enter the RTL and IOL that the board trains on Auto, i get Black Screen and need to cmos clear.
> Havent found a way to manually Put them on msi board, always Black Screen and no Boot


Mode 1 & 2 were for Asus. 

To set the RTL on the MSI in Dram Configuration enable Round Trip Latency and it will tighten up RTL/IOL. That is one thing I do not like compared to Asus is it doesn't seem like you can set them manually or I don't know how to if there is. Anyway once they are trained nice and even like 7/7/7/7 or 8/8/8/8 etc then I set the training to off/no training so they do not change.

Drawback is when turning training to off you cannot change any other setting in the memory timings as it will not do anything/stick. There is probably a better way to do it but I am new to MSI so that is what I have done for now.


----------



## Imprezzion

You can leave training enabled on MSI, it will always train the same as long as you don't change any major timings.

I'm going to change my 9900K to my 9900KS one more time in my MSI Ace and I'm curious if I can somehow boot higher then 3800Mhz memory DR 2x16 on that thing.

That KS on a ASUS Hero wouldn't even boot 3733 so... But as the KS is delidded and my K isn't I can run quite a lot more voltage on that thing before it melts itself so I'll just smash a bunch of IO/SA on it and see what it does..

EDIT: well that's a no-go. The derbauer direct die plate touches a few components that are too close to the socket. Can't mount it delidded and I don't have an IHS for it. Shame.


----------



## ducegt

cstkl1 said:


> btw are you not running this on z490??
> 
> ok read abit on your post. dont up thr vccsa/vccio so high. also if u have to use it try diff multipliers for 4000


The rig that is having issues is Apex XII. Z490

So I passed IO and SA for 10 hours with 1.4 and 1.5v @ XMPII

1.38 IO and 1.45 SA passed for 30 minutes
1.35v IO and 1.45 SA rebooted in less than 30 minutes.


----------



## Placekicker19

I'm experiencing some very strange behavior on my z390 dark. I run 4400 cl17 daily read/write score 65k , latency is 35.7ns . 

I attempted to lower my ram clock to cut back on sa and io voltages, however I can only get the ram to train at CL 19 19 19 39 @ 4300mhz and 4266mhz. If I attempt to lower any timings, it will go through the entire training cycle, but fails at the last second of training and repeats over and over until I safeboot. 4200mhz cl16 and 4400mhz cl17 work perfect, and always trained the first or second attempt when lowering timings. 

I have tried every combo of sa and io voltages with no success. I've set rtl's and iol's manually, which didnt make a difference. I just find it so odd 4200cl16 and 4400cl17 work great, but no "mhz" in between those works other than at cl 19 19 19 39 with all other timings on auto, and even that takes 4 or 5 attempts train. Is this a issue with the motherboard itself , or is it possible for ram to have dead zones and won't at certain frequencies and timings? The ram is 4400cl19 by the way.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> You can leave training enabled on MSI, it will always train the same as long as you don't change any major timings.
> 
> I'm going to change my 9900K to my 9900KS one more time in my MSI Ace and I'm curious if I can somehow boot higher then 3800Mhz memory DR 2x16 on that thing.
> 
> That KS on a ASUS Hero wouldn't even boot 3733 so... But as the KS is delidded and my K isn't I can run quite a lot more voltage on that thing before it melts itself so I'll just smash a bunch of IO/SA on it and see what it does..
> 
> EDIT: well that's a no-go. The derbauer direct die plate touches a few components that are too close to the socket. Can't mount it delidded and I don't have an IHS for it. Shame.


It doesn't train them the same for me if I leave it enabled. Maybe that is a sign my ram it at the limit but it passes memory test how have it set up and if left enabled it sets them different randomly I would never know if it is stable or not since they are so different.

Maybe they changed something for z490 as it does not have the same setting as z390 like Round Trip Latency Optimize that I see in your z390 bios settings you posted a few days ago. Unless that is the same as what is in the Dram Configuration menu and they just call it Round Trip Latency and left off the Optimize?

Edit wanted to add yes it will train them the same if say I lower ram down to 4000c17 as an example but at 4400c18 it will train 7-7-7-7 one time and next 7-8-7-9, then 8-9-11-8 as examples. Definitely could be something I am doing wrong but that is just what I have seen. I think it is just that I am at the rams limits or maybe I don't have something else set correctly.


----------



## itssladenlol

bscool said:


> It doesn't train them the same for me if I leave it enabled. Maybe that is a sign my ram it at the limit but it passes memory test how have it set up and if left enabled it sets them different randomly I would never know if it is stable or not since they are so different.
> 
> Maybe they changed something for z490 as it does not have the same setting as z390 like Round Trip Latency Optimize that I see in your z390 bios settings you posted a few days ago. Unless that is the same as what is in the Dram Configuration menu and they just call it Round Trip Latency and left off the Optimize?
> 
> Edit wanted to add yes it will train them the same if say I lower ram down to 4000c17 as an example but at 4400c18 it will train 7-7-7-7 one time and next 7-8-7-9, then 8-9-11-8 as examples. Definitely could be something I am doing wrong but that is just what I have seen. I think it is just that I am at the rams limits or maybe I don't have something else set correctly.


You doing nothing wrong, Same with Training 7/7/7/7 on my z490.
After getting 7/7/7/7 i disable Training.


----------



## Imprezzion

Hmm, wierd lol. I always leave it enabled and get 56/56/57/57/6/6/7/7 every time on 3850C14 and back when I ran single rank DIMM's on 4200C16 it was a solid 60/61/4/5 with 63/1 initial 23 offset but with training still enabled.


----------



## Gofspar

I'm having issues with training my timings on cold boots and restarts but it will pass TM5 extreme config and prime.
Running a 9990K @ 5.2/4.9 on a Maximus XI Code
post codes will hang on a 32 then a 55.

running 1.45v vdimm and 1.35 vccsa/vccio
maximus tweak mode 1









am I missing something obvious here?


----------



## Arctucas

SunnyStefan said:


> You can view sdch's Quick Reference guide as a cached page here, just scroll down a bit.


And now it is no longer there...


----------



## BananaHammock

KedarWolf said:


> How I used to manually set my RTL's and IOL's etc. low on my Z390 is I'd set all my timings as I'm used to with IOL's and TRL's on Auto, reboot, change RAM speed to something like 2666 with IOL's and RTL's on Auto, reboot, see what they are at on Auto, then manually set them to that, they'll be low, reset my RAM speed to 4200MHZ or whatever I usually run it at, reboot, then the manual settings would work.
> 
> Seems there is some fixed formula to how they need to be set or won't boot. If 2666 don't work try 3200 or 3600 IOL's etc, a RAM speed on the divider you use.


Hi KedarWolf,
Which z390 motherboard was that on?


----------



## Gen.

My config 24/7. RDWR=11/11 or 10/10 and WTR_L=6/WRRD_sg=28 I will test later. Now I will try the processor on 5300/5000.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Arctucas said:


> And now it is no longer there...


Here's an updated link (that won't expire) to *sdch's *guide*:*
*Intel Memory Overclocking Quick Reference*


----------



## ducegt

Solved my problem! For XMPII of the Royal 4000CL17 2x16GB kit, I need 1.37 IO voltage set in BIOS to be stable and the board overvolts up to 1.408v according to HWiNFO. Luckily it's also good for 4400CL18. Also set in BIOS is 1.375v SA, 1.35v vCore LLC7, 1.45v vDIMM, 52x multi, 49 cache, RTL INIT 71, Offsets 16-15, and all other RTL\IOL settings auto.

Passed Karhu for 14 hours. 0707 BIOS with default tXP and PPD. Maybe 10850K's have worse IMC's and is why such high vccio is needed.


----------



## garyd9

ducegt said:


> Solved my problem! For XMPII of the Royal 4000CL17 2x16GB kit,


Can you tell me which specific kit that is, please?

Thanks
Gary


----------



## ducegt

garyd9 said:


> Can you tell me which specific kit that is, please?
> 
> Thanks
> Gary


*F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB*


----------



## Falkentyne

ducegt said:


> Solved my problem! For XMPII of the Royal 4000CL17 2x16GB kit, I need 1.37 IO voltage set in BIOS to be stable and the board overvolts up to 1.408v according to HWiNFO. Luckily it's also good for 4400CL18. Also set in BIOS is 1.375v SA, 1.35v vCore LLC7, 1.45v vDIMM, 52x multi, 49 cache, RTL INIT 71, Offsets 16-15, and all other RTL\IOL settings auto.
> 
> Passed Karhu for 14 hours. 0707 BIOS with default tXP and PPD. Maybe 10850K's have worse IMC's and is why such high vccio is needed.
> 
> View attachment 2459417
> 
> 
> View attachment 2459414


Overvolting SA isn't possible. Negative loadlines do not exist.
Voltage increase at load is caused by power plane impedance on the Super I/O, the exact same thing that causes Vcore to be higher at load than idle at higher LLC levels (and the SA draws way way WAY fewer amps than core/vcore). So the reading is inaccurate.

You set 1.37, you get 1.37. Try probing it with a multimeter directly on the VCCSA controller chip.


----------



## Betroz

ducegt said:


> Solved my problem!


With a bit higher VDIMM you should be able to run 4400 17-18-18-38


----------



## Betroz

Falkentyne said:


> You set 1.37, you get 1.37. Try probing it with a multimeter directly on the VCCSA controller chip.


Does this apply for both IO and SA, what you set is what you get?


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah. Both very low amperage lines.
I did measure mine on the Z390 Ace with a DMM and setting 1.30v IO results in 1.304v in the DMM, setting 1.35v SA results in 1.358v in the DMM. So it does overshoot slightly but I prefer that. At least now it never goes under what I set so I can rely on it always being enough.


----------



## Arctucas

SunnyStefan said:


> Here's an updated link (that won't expire) to *sdch's *guide*:*
> *Intel Memory Overclocking Quick Reference*


Thank you.

+Rep.


----------



## SteveRo

I haven't posted for a long time, my apologies for being away 
I picked up these g.skill flareX 3200c14 2x8gb (F4-3200C14D-16GFX) from amazon for $99 bucks, such a deal, b-die I'm pretty sure.
So I played with these sticks for about a week -- this (screenshot) is bench stable, haven't tested beyond that yet  
4600 also looks to be bench stable as well.
Any recommendations on timings would be greatly appreciated!! Much thanks!


----------



## Arctucas

RTLs in UEFI are the same, but Timing Configurator shows CH A one less than CH B.

Normal?


----------



## itssladenlol

Arctucas said:


> RTLs in UEFI are the same, but Timing Configurator shows CH A one less than CH B.
> 
> Normal?


Normal, Same for me on z490 msi


----------



## Arctucas

itssladenlol said:


> Normal, Same for me on z490 msi


Any idea why it is? UEFI vs. Windows?


----------



## Gen.

@SteveRo , First, put everything in order.
tRAS=36
tWR=16
tRTP=8
tRFC=360 (with a margin)
tWTR auto
tWTR_S=4
tWTR_L=8
tCWL=16
tREFI=65024
tCKE=8
tRDRD_sg train=6
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [12]
tRDWR_dg [12]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [30]
tWRRD_dg [26]
tRDRD_dr [0]
tRDRD_dd [0]
tRDWR_dr [0]
tRDWR_dd [0]
tWRWR_dr [0]
tWRWR_dd [0]
tWRRD_dr [0]
tWRRD_dd [0]
TWRPRE [36]
TRDPRE [8]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [0]
TXP=4
PPD=0
MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
Delay after Train [Disabled]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
Trace Centering [Disabled]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [User Profile]
DLLBwEn [Auto]
DRAM SPD Write [Enabled]
XTU Setting [Auto]

DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM IOL INIT value (CHA) [4]
DRAM IOL INIT value (CHB) [4]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [64]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
Take tests. Then try CR = 1.


----------



## ducegt

Falkentyne said:


> Overvolting SA isn't possible. Negative loadlines do not exist.


That' a relief. 1.37 IO for 4000CL17 still seems strangely high.



Betroz said:


> With a bit higher VDIMM you should be able to run 4400 17-18-18-38


This rig is for someone living hours away from me so I need it to be stable, but if it was mine, I'd push for 4500CL18 because there's almost no difference between 4400CL18 and 4400CL17 strangely. Granted Aida changes run to run, but when I test it, 0.2 nanosecond difference. Not worth extra VDIMM. 4500CL18 gave like +2K bandwidth.


----------



## munternet

SteveRo said:


> I haven't posted for a long time, my apologies for being away
> I picked up these g.skill flareX 3200c14 2x8gb (F4-3200C14D-16GFX) from amazon for $99 bucks, such a deal, b-die I'm pretty sure.
> So I played with these sticks for about a week -- this (screenshot) is bench stable, haven't tested beyond that yet
> 4600 also looks to be bench stable as well.
> Any recommendations on timings would be greatly appreciated!! Much thanks!
> 
> View attachment 2459457


Looks good, congrats on the purchase 
Have you tried the 0088 bios to reduce latency


----------



## SteveRo

Thanks Gen. and munternet for the feedback - it is very much appreciated. I will give them both a try tomorrow.


----------



## SteveRo

munternet said:


> Looks good, congrats on the purchase
> Have you tried the 0088 bios to reduce latency


Looking at the asus max12apex website - all I see are three bios - 0403, 0607 and 0707. Is the 0088 bios for the z490 apex?


----------



## munternet

SteveRo said:


> Looking at the asus max12apex website - all I see are three bios - 0403, 0607 and 0707. Is the 0088 bios for the z490 apex?





ROG Maximus XII Apex


It's a custom bios with a couple of little changes.
I'm running it with TXP = 6 and PPD = 0 because I game. Settings that aren't available on the stock bios
I'm not 100% sure of all the ins and outs but latency is well lower.
Just a suggestion


----------



## munternet

Trying a little lower voltages on 2x16GB @ 4200c17 F4-3600C16D-32GTZR
Dram 1.45v
VCCIO 1.2v
VCCSA 1.2v
Yet to test with BFV
Edit: BFV 21/2-3 hours


----------



## itssladenlol

Running 4400 c18 with 1,3/1,3 Sa io and 1,45vdimm.
Dual rank 2x16gb 3200c14 Gskill trident Z.
C17 needs way too much vdimm Not worth it. 
Extremly tight secondaries. 
67500 read 68500 write 65800 copy 36,5ns.
7/7/7/7. 
Msi z490 ace. 
Gsat stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

I tested my 3850C14-15-15-30-300-2T (3800 with 104.12 BCLK) @ 1.55v DRAM, 1.30v IO 1.35v SA with BFV for the first time as well yesterday after it passed 8 hours of HCI and it runs fine. Max DIMM temps 41 and 42c.

Did about 3 hours of Grand Ops and no issues at all. CPU is getting pretty hot tho on my current OC as IO, SA and core voltage is pretty high at 1.32v VR VOut on a 9900K. It is lapped but not delidded at the moment. The Z390 Ace doesn't fit with the derbauer direct die plate. It hits a few components around the socket. 

It ran around 72-75c across the cores. Perfectly stable and it doesn't spin up the radiator fans all that much yet as they only ramp up above 76c but still. 75c sounds pretty hot for water-cooling.


----------



## nilssohn

munternet said:


> ROG Maximus XII Apex
> 
> 
> It's a custom bios with a couple of little changes.
> I'm running it with TXP = 6 and PPD = 0 because I game. Settings that aren't available on the stock bios


Hi. Is there a custom BIOS with available TXP and PPD settings for the XI Hero, too? Anywhere?


----------



## munternet

nilssohn said:


> Hi. Is there a custom BIOS with available TXP and PPD settings for the XI Hero, too? Anywhere?


I don't think so but if there is it will be on HWbot probably


----------



## itssladenlol

nilssohn said:


> Hi. Is there a custom BIOS with available TXP and PPD settings for the XI Hero, too? Anywhere?


Sadly Not. 
Asus Support used to be good but now its the worst. 
N
Zero Bios Updates for maximus XII hero since 3 months. 
Apex beta Bios Almost 3 months old also. 
Asus hero and Formular z490 board cant run anything over 4400 dual rank even After hours trying with odt. 
Thats why i ditched my Asus board and got a msi z490 ace. 
Boots 4600-4700 dual rank every try without even taking 5 seconds. 
I was able to drop my SA and IO voltages from 1,36 Sa/1,33 io on the Asus to 1,30 Sa/1,30 io on Same settings on msi. 
Msi is on par if Not better than the apex. 
Was Asus fanboy for years and boards where solid in the past, but Lack of Support and Bios Updates is Mind boggling. 
Msi brings 2-3 new Bios every week with Major improvements. 

Asus is Dead for me now, Not worth the money. 
Msi does everything much better on Same price.


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> Sadly Not.
> Asus Support used to be good but now its the worst.
> N
> Zero Bios Updates for maximus XII hero since 3 months.
> Apex beta Bios Almost 3 months old also.
> Asus hero and Formular z490 board cant run anything over 4400 dual rank even After hours trying with odt.
> Thats why i ditched my Asus board and got a msi z490 ace.
> Boots 4600-4700 dual rank every try without even taking 5 seconds.
> I was able to drop my SA and IO voltages from 1,36 Sa/1,33 io on the Asus to 1,30 Sa/1,30 io on Same settings on msi.
> Msi is on par if Not better than the apex.
> Was Asus fanboy for years and boards where solid in the past, but Lack of Support and Bios Updates is Mind boggling.
> Msi brings 2-3 new Bios every week with Major improvements.
> 
> Asus is Dead for me now, Not worth the money.
> Msi does everything much better on Same price.


Sounds like a good board 
I might look at it next upgrade if I remember 
What's the VRMs like for CPU overclock and how is the BIOS for features and ease of use?


----------



## SteveRo

Gen. said:


> @SteveRo , First, put everything in order.
> tRAS=36
> tWR=16
> tRTP=8
> tRFC=360 (with a margin)
> tWTR auto
> tWTR_S=4
> tWTR_L=8
> tCWL=16
> tREFI=65024
> tCKE=8
> tRDRD_sg train=6
> tRDRD_sg [6]
> tRDRD_dg [4]
> tRDWR_sg [12]
> tRDWR_dg [12]
> tWRWR_sg [6]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [30]
> tWRRD_dg [26]
> tRDRD_dr [0]
> tRDRD_dd [0]
> tRDWR_dr [0]
> tRDWR_dd [0]
> tWRWR_dr [0]
> tWRWR_dd [0]
> tWRRD_dr [0]
> tWRRD_dd [0]
> TWRPRE [36]
> TRDPRE [8]
> tREFIX9 [127]
> OREF_RI [0]
> TXP=4
> PPD=0
> MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
> Delay after Train [Disabled]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM1]
> Trace Centering [Disabled]
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Training Profile [User Profile]
> DLLBwEn [Auto]
> DRAM SPD Write [Enabled]
> XTU Setting [Auto]
> 
> DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
> DRAM IOL INIT value (CHA) [4]
> DRAM IOL INIT value (CHB) [4]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [64]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> Take tests. Then try CR = 1.


ok so making progress - 4300 17-18-18 CR1 yields a nice improvement in Latency - 38.3ns. 
Question - Latest z490 apex bios is 0707 - does this bios not have TXP and PPD??


----------



## marc0053

Anyone ever seen this kit (2x16gb @ 5,000MHz)?
very curious what motherboard, if any can actually run these speeds.








CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-40000) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18 - Newegg.com


Buy CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-40000) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.ca


----------



## nilssohn

@itssladenlol: You are the user @Sladen from german Hardwareluxx forum, right? I recognize almost the exact words there about MSI and Asus. Needs to spread your opinion all over the world?  That's fine for me, no offense. Only wondering why this seems to be so important for you.


----------



## Betroz

Yes I know...a buttload of voltage.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

marc0053 said:


> Anyone ever seen this kit (2x16gb @ 5,000MHz)?
> very curious what motherboard, if any can actually run these speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-40000) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-40000) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca


AMD can MT 5200 with 2*16G Micron C9BLL SR sticks. On Z490 you can also give 5000MHz a try (MT4.5 with IO 1.5 SA 1.75). According to MSI, this kit uses degraded Spectek E chips from Micron.





MEG X570 GODLIKE | Motherboard | MSI Global


Best AMD AM4 X570 EATX gaming motherboard, lightning PCIe 4.0, five lightning M.2, Frozr Heatsink, Killer LAN, WiFi 6, 6.3mm audio jack, USB 3.2 Gen 2 and Mystic Light , M.2 heatsink, OLED, infinity LED, best overclocking, extended heat-pipe, MSI GAMING




www.msi.com


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Sounds like a good board
> I might look at it next upgrade if I remember
> What's the VRMs like for CPU overclock and how is the BIOS for features and ease of use?


Very easy to use. The "Memory Force" is even an oscilloscope-like function integrated into the BIOS.


----------



## Jpmboy

marc0053 said:


> Anyone ever seen this kit (2x16gb @ 5,000MHz)?
> very curious what motherboard, if any can actually run these speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-40000) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-40000) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca


Woah... damn good to see you here! 🙂


----------



## SteveRo

Good morning, ok - status report - making progress - see screenshot 

Question - what is the generally accepted max volts 24/7 for io and sa these days - something like - 1.3/1.35v ??


----------



## garyd9

Just ordered a F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB kit and it should get delivered Friday. My only choice for this speed (4000cl17) was "royal" heatsinks (and I prefer chrome to gold.) Hopefully my 10850K's IMC is up to the job of running it. At the moment, I really don't intend to increase the speed - 4000Mhz should be fine for me, but I am hoping to tighten the timings on them.. 

Please be patient if/when I post clueless questions in here when I can't figure out what I'm doing. (I've read the guides, but it seems that few are as helpful as the vast amount of experience in just this thread.)

Other than the quick reference guide posted by @sdch, are there any good step by step guides? What I'd really love (but don't expect to exist) is something that at least starts with hand-holding instructions. Perhaps something like: "okay, so you're starting with 17-18-18-38 b-die. Step 1 is to make sure you can boot XMP. Step 2 is to lower the XXX timing by Y and try again"

I don't think I'll ever be a memory timings expert, but I would like to eventually end up with "reasonably tight" timings for 24/7 use.


----------



## SunnyStefan

garyd9 said:


> Other than the quick reference guide posted by @sdch, are there any good step by step guides? What I'd really love (but don't expect to exist) is something that at least starts with hand-holding instructions. Perhaps something like: "okay, so you're starting with 17-18-18-38 b-die. Step 1 is to make sure you can boot XMP. Step 2 is to lower the XXX timing by Y and try again"


*integralfx's DDR4 OC Guide on Github* should be right up your alley, it's definitely the #1 memory overclocking guide in my book.

It can look a bit overwhelming, but honestly it's just comprehensive (it covers overclocking on AMD too, I have no clue if it's any good in this regard).

I recommend reading the *Finding a Baseline* section to start, it's almost exactly what you asked for.


----------



## munternet

garyd9 said:


> Other than the quick reference guide posted by @sdch, are there any good step by step guides? What I'd really love (but don't expect to exist) is something that at least starts with hand-holding instructions. Perhaps something like: "okay, so you're starting with 17-18-18-38 b-die. Step 1 is to make sure you can boot XMP. Step 2 is to lower the XXX timing by Y and try again


There is a permalink in my sig if you need it 
There are also a couple of other links there you might like for testing software once you have overclocked the ram


----------



## Hiikeri

SteveRo said:


> Question - what is the generally accepted max volts 24/7 for io and sa these days - something like - 1.3/1.35v ??


IO should'nt be over Vcore, SA can be pretty high actually.
My TridentZ XMP defaults are IO 1.35V and SA 1.45V.

Currently i have 24/7 > IO 1.42V and SA 1.52V.
BUT , i have Phase change CPU cooling system so my IMC is also sub-zero.


----------



## itssladenlol

Hiikeri said:


> IO should'nt be over Vcore, SA can be pretty high actually.
> My TridentZ XMP defaults are IO 1.35V and SA 1.45V.
> 
> Currently i have 24/7 > IO 1.42V and SA 1.52V.
> BUT , i have Phase change CPU cooling system so my IMC is also sub-zero.


Io above vcore doesnt matter lol. 
I cant do io under vcore cause my 10900k is golden Chip that needs 1,16v under load to be stable. 
I have io 1.30 to run 4400 c16 dual rank. 
Cpu is 100% Stable in every test at 1,16vcore 5GHz allcore. 
Putting vcore to 1,3 would be stupid for my usecase.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Hiikeri said:


> IO should'nt be over Vcore, SA can be pretty high actually.
> My TridentZ XMP defaults are IO 1.35V and SA 1.45V.
> 
> Currently i have 24/7 > IO 1.42V and SA 1.52V.
> BUT , i have Phase change CPU cooling system so my IMC is also sub-zero.


Vcc and Vcc_IO are two different things.


----------



## Betroz

If in doubt, tweak some more! Some progress here :


----------



## Betroz




----------



## Falkentyne

Betroz said:


> View attachment 2459819


So some of my settings helped?


----------



## Betroz

Falkentyne said:


> So some of my settings helped?


Hard to say, but I did copy one setting from you, DLLBwen=0


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> If in doubt, tweak some more! Some progress here :
> 
> View attachment 2459816


Why so high Vccio and SA?
Running Same settings as you on 1,30 1,30 io/Sa dual rank 2x16gb


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> Why so high Vccio and SA?


Crappy IMC is all that makes sense. My CPU needed 1.30 IO and 1.37 SA with my singel rank Viper sticks at 4400 17-18-18, and dual rank puts even more pressure on the IMC. Lucky me...


----------



## Falkentyne

Betroz said:


> Hard to say, but I did copy one setting from you, DLLBwen=0


That setting is what helped me as well as the ODT settings (Wr=80, Park=48, Nom=40 I believe)


----------



## Betroz

Falkentyne said:


> ODT settings (Wr=80, Park=48, Nom=40 I believe)


Yes, I use that too, but that was from OLDFATSHEEP I think.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Yes, I use that too, but that was from OLDFATSHEEP I think.


I first saw it from @Falkentyne here *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
OLDFATSHEEP suggested some different settings 3 or 4 posts down


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> I first saw it from @Falkentyne here _Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> OLDFATSHEEP suggested some different settings 3 or 4 posts down


I blame my age...


----------



## Hiikeri

Betroz said:


> View attachment 2459819





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Vcc and Vcc_IO are two different things.


Where i have been talking anything on Vcc voltages?
I'been say only Input/Output aka. IO aka. vccIO and System agent aka. SA aka vccSa voltages.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> I blame my age...


Yup, my number was WR=80, PARK=40 (PARK=48 also fine), and NOM=34~48. You can try these values based on your sticks. Also CHA and CHB can be different.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Hiikeri said:


> Where i have been talking anything on Vcc voltages?
> I'been say only Input/Output aka. IO aka. vccIO and System agent aka. SA aka vccSa voltages.


Vcc is the feedback of "Vcore".

If you think Vcc_IO should be lower than Vcc since Vcc_IO is applied to the pins, then your Vcc_SA should also be lower than Vcc. That's not true. They are on different rails according to the spec.

9gen usually can bear 1.35V Vcc_IO, but 10 gen improved the I/O die design, allowing it to bear safely up to 1.6V Vcc_IO. The temperature control of the IO&SA VRM is also improved on Z490.


----------



## Jpmboy

waaay too many posts with screen snips lacking stability data. shameful. 😄


----------



## ducegt

Jpmboy said:


> waaay too many posts with screen snips lacking stability data. shameful. 😄


Here, but don't laugh at my _terrible_ AIDA scores  Apex XII 0707 default txp, ppd. I've tested passed 11 hours with basically the same settings and no errors. Any lower IO gives 1-3 errors per 10 hours and lower SA gives page fault BSODs sometimes within minutes of starting a test. It's been hard enough to get this stable at 4400CL18.


----------



## Jpmboy

Amazing how much VCCSA these comet Lake cpus take!


----------



## acrvr

My ram at 4300MHz has worse latency with Aida64 test (39-40ns) than compared to 4200MHz (38-39ns) with all the same timings. At first I thought it was stability issue but running TM5 anta777 for 3 cycles don't produce any error. Any idea why?


----------



## ducegt

Same memory settings as above: 10 loops of IBT at maximum (well -1GB available) Crazy how this 10850K runs cooler at 5.2ghz during this test than my old 7700K at even 5ghz with a fraction of the core count.


----------



## Betroz

acrvr said:


> My ram at 4300MHz has worse latency with Aida64 test (39-40ns) than compared to 4200MHz (38-39ns) with all the same timings. At first I thought it was stability issue but running TM5 anta777 for 3 cycles don't produce any error. Any idea why?


If you have RTL and IOL at auto, then they are higher at 4300 than 4200, and so slightly worse latency.


----------



## ThrashZone

Jpmboy said:


> Amazing how much VCCSA these comet Lake cpus take!


Hi,
No telling when that comet dies out though


----------



## Betroz

ThrashZone said:


> No telling when that comet dies out though


Mine will burn up in the Sun


----------



## acrvr

Betroz said:


> If you have RTL and IOL at auto, then they are higher at 4300 than 4200, and so slightly worse latency.


Thanks!


----------



## garyd9

4000-CL17 memory showed up today and it's plugged in. Initial bootup on XMP settings worked. Passed 10 minutes of TM5 (extreme anta777) before I decided it was a waste of time to test stability on settings I wouldn't keep. I found a b-die 2x16 1.45v CL16 preset in the Asus Hero BIOS and loaded that up. Oddly, the preset claimed a speed of 3866 but it booted as 4000-16-18-18-36 @ 1.45v. Boots fine, but getting errors about 7 minutes into TM5 extreme anta777 (on test 2.) 

Is there a way to know if this is from memory or VCCIO/VCCSA? (Both are at 1.30.)










Edit: Scanning through posts here and found suggestions for setting ODT_RTT* for some stability. After setting both channels WR, PARK and NOM to 80, 48, 40 respectively, I can pass 30 minutes of the anta extreme preset.

This memory overclocking can get addictive, but with so many knobs and dials, it might take years to find the "best" configuration.


----------



## nilssohn

@garyd9: tWTR_L and tWTR_S on 6/6 are not good values. Set them in BIOS to Auto and put tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg to around 30/26 (Minimum 28/23). Keep a distance of at least 4 between these values.
Try tFAV 16. tREFI should work with 65535.

Your RTL/IOL are not align. Try RoundTrip=Enabled

On 4000 MHz there should be no need to set the ODT values. Also, these values are not universal, but vary in different RAM Kits on different boards. If you are not willing to test each possible ODT combination, leave them on Auto.

IO/SA on 1.344V is a lot for 4000 MHz, try 1.3V. Test it with prime95 custom runs: VCCIO is around FFT 640 to 720, VCCSA around 672 to 768, VDIMM 800.

Edit: "This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors." Are you kidding me?


----------



## munternet

garyd9 said:


> 4000-CL17 memory showed up today and it's plugged in. Initial bootup on XMP settings worked. Passed 10 minutes of TM5 (extreme anta777) before I decided it was a waste of time to test stability on settings I wouldn't keep. I found a b-die 2x16 1.45v CL16 preset in the Asus Hero BIOS and loaded that up. Oddly, the preset claimed a speed of 3866 but it booted as 4000-16-18-18-36 @ 1.45v. Boots fine, but getting errors about 7 minutes into TM5 extreme anta777 (on test 2.)
> 
> Is there a way to know if this is from memory or VCCIO/VCCSA? (Both are at 1.30.)
> 
> Edit: Scanning through posts here and found suggestions for setting ODT_RTT* for some stability. After setting both channels WR, PARK and NOM to 80, 48, 40 respectively, I can pass 30 minutes of the anta extreme preset.
> 
> This memory overclocking can get addictive, but with so many knobs and dials, it might take years to find the "best" configuration.


If you just want to take shortcuts you could try my low voltage settings for 4200c17
DllBwen=0








*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Solved my problem! For XMPII of the Royal 4000CL17 2x16GB kit, I need 1.37 IO voltage set in BIOS to be stable and the board overvolts up to 1.408v according to HWiNFO. Luckily it's also good for 4400CL18. Also set in BIOS is 1.375v SA, 1.35v vCore LLC7, 1.45v vDIMM, 52x multi, 49 cache, RTL...




www.overclock.net




Tested and running 24/7 now
This would give you plenty of room to raise voltages 
Set rtls and iols to auto if they don't boot


----------



## Imprezzion

nilssohn said:


> @garyd9: tWTR_L and tWTR_S on 6/6 are not good values. Set them in BIOS to Auto and put tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg to around 30/26 (Minimum 28/23). Keep a distance of at least 4 between these values.
> Try tFAV 16. tREFI should work with 65535.
> 
> Your RTL/IOL are not align. Try RoundTrip=Enabled
> 
> On 4000 MHz there should be no need to set the ODT values. Also, these values are not universal, but vary in different RAM Kits on different boards. If you are not willing to test each possible ODT combination, leave them on Auto.
> 
> IO/SA on 1.344V is a lot for 4000 MHz, try 1.3V. Test it with prime95 custom runs: VCCIO is around FFT 640 to 720, VCCSA around 672 to 768, VDIMM 800.
> 
> Edit: "This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors." Are you kidding me?


How do you determine the correct tWRRD values? I run 3850 14-15-15-30-300-2T for now as that's all I tested stable so far on this poor CPU. My tWRRD_sg and _dg are at 24/19 which is less then what you called minimum. Is there any reason behind these numbers besides just "lowest possible stable"?

I mean, I will try tomorrow while working from home on a different PC to tweak this OC to whatever it will do but it's not going to be much.

The CPU will not run anything over 3900 divider so far with DR 2x16GB, with 2x8GB SR it will do 4400-4600 just fine tho so I have hopes just yeeting IO/SA at it will sort of help it get like, 4000-4200 to boot on 2x16GB DR.

This board can handle it. I tested it with a 9900KS newer stepping with a better IMC and it handled this specific RAM kit fine at 4200C16 so I know what these DIMM's can do for primary timings.

Problem is, that KS is delidded with no IHS and the derbauer delid plate doesn't fit properly on this board so I can't 24/7 run that CPU. I just had it loose in the socket purely held in with the mounting pressure of the waterblock. But it would only POST laying down. Setting it up right messed with the tension on the block and wouldn't POST half the time. Plus it's core OC is way worse, it needs more voltage for 5.0 AVX0 then my old P0 9900K needs for 5.1 AVX0 and that is lapped not delidded so I can run that CPU in this board but that P0 has a super weak IMC haha. Also, KS has hardware mitigation for spectre and such eating away at the IPC so whatever gains I get with memory the 100Mhz lower core clock and less IPC will cancel it out. So I have to find _a_ way to get that P0 9900K to run higher then 3850 haha.


----------



## nilssohn

Imprezzion said:


> How do you determine the correct tWRRD values? I run 3850 14-15-15-30-300-2T for now as that's all I tested stable so far on this poor CPU. My tWRRD_sg and _dg are at 24/19 which is less then what you called minimum. Is there any reason behind these numbers besides just "lowest possible stable"?


In @garyd9 settings tCWL=16 which is a common value. There is a correlation that says

tWTR_S=tWRRD_dg-tCWL-6
tWTR_L=tWRRD_sg-tCWL-6

So, if tWRRD_dg=23 and tCWL=16, tWTR_S=1. 28/23 (6/1) may not be a final frontier. I regard it as the most likely lowest combination in 4000 Mhz and above.

If you run tWRRD_dg=19, your tCWL should be 12. Is this the case or are you able to "overrule" the formula above in your settings?

Edit:
I`ve found a setting screenshot from my old MSI Board which wasn't able to provide much more than 3800 MHz, with excellent subtimings though.  There, I ran 24/20 (6/2), too with tCWL 12.









With 4400 on the current XI Hero, I am not able to go 24/7 below 29/23 (7/1). 28/23 (6/1) is possible if I am willing to accept karhu Memtest errors after 2 hours or so. In the german RAM OC forum I usually


----------



## garyd9

nilssohn said:


> @garyd9: tWTR_L and tWTR_S on 6/6 are not good values. Set them in BIOS to Auto and put tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg to around 30/26 (Minimum 28/23). Keep a distance of at least 4 between these values.
> Try tFAV 16. tREFI should work with 65535.
> 
> Your RTL/IOL are not align. Try RoundTrip=Enabled
> 
> On 4000 MHz there should be no need to set the ODT values. Also, these values are not universal, but vary in different RAM Kits on different boards. If you are not willing to test each possible ODT combination, leave them on Auto.


Keep in mind that those values, for the most part, came from the preset built into the BIOS. I hadn't started doing anything manually when I posted that. HOWEVER, after tweaking all last night, and having 100% stability in TM5, I found that my values weren't as stable as I thought. With 4000-16-16-16-36, I had no problems passing memory tests, but the machine failed coming out of standby (S3) either with lockup or WHEA errors. I'm now in the process of starting over from XMP values...

BTW, is it normal on these ASUS boards that the memory stick LED's remain illuminated when the machine is sleeping?

I will mention, either my m/b or my CPU has some very serious memory limitations: I tried to use XMP settings (4000-17-18-18-38) with the voltage bumped to 1.45 (instead of 1.40), and changing the CR to 1 (from 2.) I couldn't boot. (Code 55 - memory not found.) I also couldn't raise the frequency to even 4200 (no boot, code 03 - something related to system agent.) Both were attempted with trace centering on and off, VDIMM at 1.45, VCCSA at 1.35 and VCCIO at ~1.325. (My CPU is a 10850k, not a 10900k, so perhaps the IMC is really poor.)

As for the ODT values, your statement is frustrating: Telling me there's no need might be accurate, but without giving an alternative to get the machine to boot and pass stability tests, it's not really helpful. From my (admittedly clueless) point of view, with those settings, things work. Without those settings, they didn't. (Actually, in retrospect, it only worked better with the settings - but not competely.)




munternet said:


> If you just want to take shortcuts you could try my low voltage settings for 4200c17
> DllBwen=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> Solved my problem! For XMPII of the Royal 4000CL17 2x16GB kit, I need 1.37 IO voltage set in BIOS to be stable and the board overvolts up to 1.408v according to HWiNFO. Luckily it's also good for 4400CL18. Also set in BIOS is 1.375v SA, 1.35v vCore LLC7, 1.45v vDIMM, 52x multi, 49 cache, RTL...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tested and running 24/7 now
> This would give you plenty of room to raise voltages
> Set rtls and iols to auto if they don't boot


4200 is merely a dream for me right now. As mentioned, I'm going backwards to just getting XMP 100% stable, and will work from there. I might also go ahead and loosen the XMP timings to see if that will get me over 4000 or not. 

As I mentioned, this memory tweaking can become habit forming, but I was very unhappy to see memory tests passing, but standby (s3) completely failing.


----------



## KedarWolf

garyd9 said:


> Keep in mind that those values, for the most part, came from the preset built into the BIOS. I hadn't started doing anything manually when I posted that. HOWEVER, after tweaking all last night, and having 100% stability in TM5, I found that my values weren't as stable as I thought. With 4000-16-16-16-36, I had no problems passing memory tests, but the machine failed coming out of standby (S3) either with lockup or WHEA errors. I'm now in the process of starting over from XMP values...
> 
> BTW, is it normal on these ASUS boards that the memory stick LED's remain illuminated when the machine is sleeping?
> 
> I will mention, either my m/b or my CPU has some very serious memory limitations: I tried to use XMP settings (4000-17-18-18-38) with the voltage bumped to 1.45 (instead of 1.40), and changing the CR to 1 (from 2.) I couldn't boot. (Code 55 - memory not found.) I also couldn't raise the frequency to even 4200 (no boot, code 03 - something related to system agent.) Both were attempted with trace centering on and off, VDIMM at 1.45, VCCSA at 1.35 and VCCIO at ~1.325. (My CPU is a 10850k, not a 10900k, so perhaps the IMC is really poor.)
> 
> As for the ODT values, your statement is frustrating: Telling me there's no need might be accurate, but without giving an alternative to get the machine to boot and pass stability tests, it's not really helpful. From my (admittedly clueless) point of view, with those settings, things work. Without those settings, they didn't. (Actually, in retrospect, it only worked better with the settings - but not competely.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4200 is merely a dream for me right now. As mentioned, I'm going backwards to just getting XMP 100% stable, and will work from there. I might also go ahead and loosen the XMP timings to see if that will get me over 4000 or not.
> 
> As I mentioned, this memory tweaking can become habit forming, but I was very unhappy to see memory tests passing, but standby (s3) completely failing.


CR1 is likely the culprit, most peeps can't do CR1 at higher frequencies. CR2 is needed.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
z490 if you use xmp Mode 2 you can use cr1.


----------



## Nizzen

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> z490 if you use xmp Mode 2 you can use cr1.


Asus z490 Apex is the key for 1t. 4700c17 1t tweaked easy 

Using 4800c17 1t tweaked for benchmarks


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Asus z490 Apex is the key for 1t. 4700c17 1t tweaked easy


Not if you have a CPU with a shi**y IMC...


----------



## garyd9

So.. starting over from XMP settings, everything auto, 1.4v (which is part of the XMP for this 4000-17-18-18-38 kit.) From there, going through various memory overclocking walkthroughs. When my notes say "fail to train", it's describing a case where the machine starts, the motherboard turns on the yellow "memory" LED, cycles through many codes on the m/b LED, all with the yellow memory LED, and eventually turns off the memory LED and reboots. After that happens 4-5 times, it boots into a BIOS safe mode. (I don't know if that's really "failed to train", but I don't know what else to call it.)

My short stability tests are: 10x IBT Very High (this seems more sensitive for some errors than TM5), machine goes into standby (s3) and resumes properly, and 15-20 minutes of TM5 extreme anta777.

---

("XMP settings" is a BIOS profile that's 100% stable. Everything is AUTO except a processor O/C to 5GHz, VCCIO at 1.25, VCCSA at 1.30, and "XMP I" at 4000Mhz, 17-18-18-38, VDIMM at 1.40)

Attempt 1: (Frequency) From XMP, change frequency to 4100 and loosen timings to 17-20-20-40. This failed to train at 1.4 volts, so tried 1.45v. Also failed to train. Changing the "memory tweak" to "mode 2" allowed it to boot, but failed IBT.

Attempt 2: Same as above + DLLBwen=0, Trace Centering enabled. -> BSOD while doing IBT. Similar when raising VCCSA to 1.35

Attempt 3: (CL) restore back to XMP settings, CL to 16 (4000-16-18-18-38, everything else auto) -> fails to train. Changed voltage to 1.45v, dllbwen to 0 -> boots, IBT runs, but fails to resume from standby properly (generates a WHEA)

Attempt 4: (tRFC) restore back to XMP settings, only change tRFC to 320. (Considering that "auto" is 700 for some reason, this is actually a massive jump.) -> STABLE. Saving attempt 4 as profile "XMP tRFC320"

Attempt 5 will be lowing tFAW (and tRRD_s) to 16 (and 4) and possibly loosening back on them if they're unstable...

As I go along, I'm writing everything down in a notebook (that I had to borrow from my daughter.)

Am I doing this correctly? If it helps, I'll attach my XMP timings ("XMP Settings" profile.) Should I be trying something different?


----------



## nilssohn

garyd9 said:


> As for the ODT values, your statement is frustrating: Telling me there's no need might be accurate, but without giving an alternative to get the machine to boot and pass stability tests, it's not really helpful. From my (admittedly clueless) point of view, with those settings, things work. Without those settings, they didn't. (Actually, in retrospect, it only worked better with the settings - but not competely.)


Frustrating is that the ODT values are shown just nowhere. So we have to leave them on Auto, explore the right ones with a lot of patience or - of course - pick the ones that do work fine with other users and accidentially fit to our needs.

If that helps: Often Channel A and B share the same values. Often the first one has the value 80, second and third are lower and sometimes identical. Don't know if this works for other manufacterers than Asus, too.


----------



## nilssohn

garyd9 said:


> Am I doing this correctly?


If I may: I got the impression you are trying a lot of different things at the same time. Did you dig into one or two of the various RAM OC guides available?


----------



## Imprezzion

nilssohn said:


> In @garyd9 settings tCWL=16 which is a common value. There is a correlation that says
> 
> tWTR_S=tWRRD_dg-tCWL-6
> tWTR_L=tWRRD_sg-tCWL-6
> 
> So, if tWRRD_dg=23 and tCWL=16, tWTR_S=1. 28/23 (6/1) may not be a final frontier. I regard it as the most likely lowest combination in 4000 Mhz and above.
> 
> If you run tWRRD_dg=19, your tCWL should be 12. Is this the case or are you able to "overrule" the formula above in your settings?
> 
> Edit:
> I`ve found a setting screenshot from my old MSI Board which wasn't able to provide much more than 3800 MHz, with excellent subtimings though.  There, I ran 24/20 (6/2), too with tCWL 12.
> 
> View attachment 2460118
> 
> 
> With 4400 on the current XI Hero, I am not able to go 24/7 below 29/23 (7/1). 28/23 (6/1) is possible if I am willing to accept karhu Memtest errors after 2 hours or so. In the german RAM OC forum I usually


I have a Z390 Hero as well but that doesn't do any better in terms of memory overclocking compared to the Z390 Ace lol.

Here's a screenshot of my current settings. SO yeah, I do run tCWL 12. This is with 3800 divider with 104.12 BCLK. It is 100% stable on these settings. I see now i have it set to 32/320 tRAS/tRFC. I thought it was on 30/300 lol.


----------



## nilssohn

What makes you think that tRAS has to go along with tRFC? Or did I get that wrong?


----------



## garyd9

nilssohn said:


> If I may: I got the impression you are trying a lot of different things at the same time. Did you dig into one or two of the various RAM OC guides available?


Not at all. I'm actually being very methodical and doing one change at a time. The first thing I did was to go to XMP. That worked. This is saved as a profile so I can keep going back to a "known good" profile when I hit a brick wall.

Then I loosened the timings and went to 4100. (following this guide: https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md) That failed.

Then I tried various things to get 4100 working, but all failed.

.. at this point, I passed the rest of that guide for higher frequencies (as it seems like it won't happen for my memory/mb/CPU) and moved to "tightening timings"

Then reverted back to XMP and tried to lower CL by 1, but that failed, so tried raising voltage (failed) and dllbwen=0 (Failed)

This is all shown in the post you quoted.

Most recently, I went back to XMP settings and changed only the tRFC to 320. That succeeds.

Next step is to change tFAW (and that requires also changing tRRDs to keep tFAW at 4*tRRDs - so that will actually be two changes at once, but they are related.)

After each attempt/step, I run various things to check stability.


----------



## Salve1412

garyd9 said:


> With 4000-16-16-16-36, I had no problems passing memory tests, but the machine failed coming out of standby (S3) either with lockup or WHEA errors. I'm now in the process of starting over from XMP values...


Regarding your S3 issues, may I ask you if Intel Management Interface Driver is installed in your system? If so, would you mind temporarily disabling it and test S3 again? I've got a Maximus XII Extreme and I noticed analogous S3 problems with two different RAM kits (one of them is Trident Z Royal Gold 2x16GB 4000MHz 17-18-18-38): both of the kits are perfectly stable during stress tests, but they cause the PC to fail resuming from sleep, in my case only if they are overclocked past 4300MHz, no matter what voltages or timings (XMP vs manual) I set. If I disable Intel Management Engine Interface in Device Manager, however, the issue disappear. I know you experienced the issue at lower frequencies than mine, but I'd still be curious to see if disabling MEI could help...


----------



## nilssohn

@garyd9: Okay, sounds good. Suggestions from here:

skip XMP if you like (you won't need it if you set all the subs manually and you don't risk the profile sets invisible values that might not match yours
set DLLBwEn to Auto for now (this is finetuning for later)
maybe you also want to put the ODT back to Auto for the moment and return to that later.


----------



## garyd9

nilssohn said:


> skip XMP if you like (you won't need it if you set all the subs manually and you don't risk the profile sets invisible values that might not match yours
> set DLLBwEn to Auto for now (this is finetuning for later)
> maybe you also want to put the ODT back to Auto for the moment and return to that later.


Good idea on turning off "XMP" and changing it to "Manual." As for the other two items, both are currently "Auto" (as that's part of the "XMP Settings" profile I have saved.)

A quick question: In the guide I'm following, it suggests setting tFAW to 16 and tRRD_S and tRRD_L both to 4 (all at the same time.) In other places, I've read that the minimum value for tRRD_L is actually 6 and using 4 can result in the BIOS ignoring the set value and actually using a higher value than 6 (yet not reporting it.) Does anyone have any suggestion on which way to go with these values?




Salve1412 said:


> Regarding your S3 issues, may I ask you if Intel Management Interface Driver is installed in your system? If so, would you mind temporarily disabling it and test S3 again? I've got a Maximus XII Extreme and I noticed analogous S3 problems with two different RAM kits (one of them is Trident Z Royal Gold 2x16GB 4000MHz 17-18-18-38): both of the kits are perfectly stable during stress tests, but they cause the PC to fail resuming from sleep, in my case only if they are overclocked past 4300MHz, no matter what voltages or timings (XMP vs manual) I set. If I disable Intel Management Engine Interface in Device Manager, however, the issue disappear. I know you experienced the issue at lower frequencies than mine, but I'd still be curious to see if disabling MEI could help...


Thank you! I will check that out after my current round of testing (tFAW / tRRD_s.) If that's the case, it'd really annoy me (though not completely surprise me.) How in the world did you make the connection between failing to resume from S3 and MEI?


----------



## nilssohn

garyd9 said:


> A quick question: In the guide I'm following, it suggests setting tFAW to 16 and tRRD_S and tRRD_L both to 4 (all at the same time.) In other places, I've read that the minimum value for tRRD_L is actually 6 and using 4 can result in the BIOS ignoring the set value and actually using a higher value than 6 (yet not reporting it.) Does anyone have any suggestion on which way to go with these values?


I would use 6/4.


----------



## Arctucas

garyd9 said:


> <SNIP> In the guide I'm following,<SNIP>


Any chance you could post a link or perhaps text for that guide?

Thanks


----------



## nilssohn

He posted it in #14,494.


----------



## Salve1412

garyd9 said:


> In other places, I've read that the minimum value for tRRD_L is actually 6 and using 4 can result in the BIOS ignoring the set value and actually using a higher value than 6 (yet not reporting it.) Does anyone have any suggestion on which way to go with these values?


I know almost nothing about technical stuff, but one thing I can tell you is that I've always used 6 and 4 for tRRD_L and tRRD_S respectively (and for tFAW 16=tRRD_Sx4).



garyd9 said:


> Thank you! I will check that out after my current round of testing (tFAW / tRRD_s.) If that's the case, it'd really annoy me (though not completely surprise me.) How in the world did you make the connection between failing to resume from S3 and MEI?


After performing a fresh Windows 10 install and re-applying my memory overclock (4400MHz) I noticed that S3 resuming wasn't failing like it happened with my previous installation. So I decided to test sleep mode step by step after installing every single driver and boom, as soon as I installed MEI driver the issue occurred again. To be fair, though, I tested only one BIOS version, 0098, which isn't actually an official one, so I don't know if this could be the cause.


----------



## bscool

Salve1412 said:


> Regarding your S3 issues, may I ask you if Intel Management Interface Driver is installed in your system? If so, would you mind temporarily disabling it and test S3 again? I've got a Maximus XII Extreme and I noticed analogous S3 problems with two different RAM kits (one of them is Trident Z Royal Gold 2x16GB 4000MHz 17-18-18-38): both of the kits are perfectly stable during stress tests, but they cause the PC to fail resuming from sleep, in my case only if they are overclocked past 4300MHz, no matter what voltages or timings (XMP vs manual) I set. If I disable Intel Management Engine Interface in Device Manager, however, the issue disappear. I know you experienced the issue at lower frequencies than mine, but I'd still be curious to see if disabling MEI could help...


Interesting find if that works. I will try that once I get my Apex or Unify back up and running and post back if it works. I also found after 4200-4300 depending on MB they fail to wake from sleep or take a long time for the screen to finally show.


----------



## garyd9

nilssohn said:


> He posted it in #14,494.


Here's another one that I'm also using for reference: *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


----------



## Imprezzion

nilssohn said:


> What makes you think that tRAS has to go along with tRFC? Or did I get that wrong?


Oh no I don't but I said I ran 30/300 but I didn't. That is just the minimum stable. I can get away with lower tRFC but that means I have to drop tREFI even further. I already can't run 65xxx or really anything over ~40k without errors in deep sleep and such so. And a lower tRAS doesn't matter with these primary timings anyway. Ok, technically it should be 31 if I use CAS+tRCD+2 formula but k.

We'll see what I can do tomorrow with some tweaking.


----------



## garyd9

Salve1412 said:


> I know you experienced the issue at lower frequencies than mine, but I'd still be curious to see if disabling MEI could help...


After a very quick test, this DOES in fact seem to resolve the resume from S3 problem (with my timings at 4000-16-16-16-36.) I only tried it once, but... this is odd. It's also very Intel'ish. 

I'm also kind of suspicious that I remember not being able to find a z490 MEI driver on intel's website. I'm using one downloaded from the Asus website (and I typically avoid using any software/driver I find on the Asus website because they typically modify the packages before posting.) hmmm...


----------



## munternet

garyd9 said:


> After a very quick test, this DOES in fact seem to resolve the resume from S3 problem (with my timings at 4000-16-16-16-36.) I only tried it once, but... this is odd. It's also very Intel'ish.
> 
> I'm also kind of suspicious that I remember not being able to find a z490 MEI driver on intel's website. I'm using one downloaded from the Asus website (and I typically avoid using any software/driver I find on the Asus website because they typically modify the packages before posting.) hmmm...


I never use the MEI driver. Should I??



Imprezzion said:


> Oh no I don't but I said I ran 30/300 but I didn't. That is just the minimum stable. I can get away with lower tRFC but that means I have to drop tREFI even further. I already can't run 65xxx or really anything over ~40k without errors in deep sleep and such so. And a lower tRAS doesn't matter with these primary timings anyway. Ok, technically it should be 31 if I use CAS+tRCD+2 formula but k.
> 
> We'll see what I can do tomorrow with some tweaking.


The tRAS rule with 2x16GB DR on the Apex XII seems to be tCL+tRCD-2=tRAS After much testing tCL+tRCD=tRAS seems to work best and tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS gives a blue screen on the Apex XII 4533cl18
This is the only rule that allows me to boot 4600-18-18-18-34 or get the higher overclocks even close to stable without smashing the voltages

Just now trying to get 4500-18-18-18-34 fully stable
Got 1 error an hour into Ollie. Any suggestions appreciated from someone with experience


----------



## garyd9

munternet said:


> I never use the MEI driver. Should I??


Don't use? Is it disabled, or do you leave it as a driver in device manager with a "!" mark (because there's no driver installed for it?)


----------



## Betroz

Salve1412 said:


> I noticed that S3 resuming wasn't failing like it happened with my previous installation. So I decided to test sleep mode step by step after installing every single driver and boom, as soon as I installed MEI driver the issue occurred again


Why use sleepmode on a DESKTOP computer? In my opinion, that is only useful on a LAPTOP where you do have a battery to conserve.


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> The tRAS rule with 2x16GB DR on the Apex XII seems to be tCL+tRCD-2=tRAS


Long ago I learned that it is tCL+tRCD*+2*=tRAS - but maybe that was wrong....?

I see you use tRFC 400. Lower is better for games. Maybe 4500 mem speed is not worth it. I'm thinking about the same for my 4400c16 settings that require 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA...

All this CPU overclocking and memory tweaking is to improve performance in games, just to get those few frames per second more, and I am just a casual gamer at best. So...maybe it is ALL about the tweaking and not the performance? LOL


----------



## Imprezzion

For me it is about the tweaking itself as well. Gives me something to do while working from home and it's so satisfying when after weeks of testing it runs stable.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> *Long ago I learned that it is tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS* - but maybe that was wrong....?
> 
> I see you use tRFC 400. Lower is better for games. Maybe 4500 mem speed is not worth it. I'm thinking about the same for my 4400c16 settings that require 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA...
> 
> All this CPU overclocking and memory tweaking is to improve performance in games, just to get those few frames per second more, and I am just a casual gamer at best. So...maybe it is ALL about the tweaking and not the performance? LOL


Maybe it was true long ago 
Try -2 and see how you go
There was no way to stabilize with low sa and io unless I dropped tRAS

Check out the voltages on 4400c18


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Check out the voltages on 4400c18


Nice! 
You can't get lower RTL and IOL stable? Does tWR 16 let you run lower voltages?

My sticks don't like straight primaries - so I have to use 16-17-17 and the like. So if I were to run tCL 18 like you - it means 18-19-19.


----------



## TheBoom

So I’ve got my kit of crucial rev e 16x2gb stable at 4000 16-19-19-39 1.45v.

Unfortunately I lost the lottery with my sp51 10700k chip and imc isn’t happy with 1.25v or less on IO and SA.

I’ve seen a few peeps say that going above 1.25v is bad for the imc and motherboard traces.

Got it stable at 1.25 IO and 1.3 SA, do you guys think it’s safe for 24/7?


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Nice!
> You can't get lower RTL and IOL stable? Does tWR 16 let you run lower voltages?
> 
> My sticks don't like straight primaries - so I have to use 16-17-17 and the like. So if I were to run tCL 18 like you - it means 18-19-19.


Yeah mate, haven't finished with the 4400 yet. I just spent the day doing some voltage and stability exercises. Next step will be tightening RTLs and maybe tCL.
Try dropping your tRAS and see how you go. Start with settings that are slightly unstable in TM5 and lower until it makes things worse then raise a little 
16 tWR gives me a good read write and copy combined.



TheBoom said:


> So I’ve got my kit of crucial rev e 16x2gb stable at 4000 16-19-19-39 1.45v.
> 
> Unfortunately I lost the lottery with my sp51 10700k chip and imc isn’t happy with 1.25v or less on IO and SA.
> 
> I’ve seen a few peeps say that going above 1.25v is bad for the imc and motherboard traces.
> 
> Got it stable at 1.25 IO and 1.3 SA, do you guys think it’s safe for 24/7?


Voltages are fine  
Still a little head room if you need it


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Yeah mate, haven't finished with the 4400 yet


I do have a working 4400c16 profile. What I would like to try is to aim for slightly lower performance, but with way lower voltages. The problem is my IMC that won't let me - unless I really settle for lower settings... Then again, 1.54 VDIMM probably won't kill my RAM sticks since load temps are under 50C. And 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA is probably just fine aswell... I guess I'm just looking for something to change


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> I do have a working 4400c16 profile. What I would like to try is to aim for slightly lower performance, but with way lower voltages. The problem is my IMC that won't let me - unless I really settle for lower settings... Then again, 1.54 VDIMM probably won't kill my RAM sticks since load temps are under 50C. And 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA is probably just fine aswell... I guess I'm just looking for something to change


4400c16 is pretty nice  
Don't think I can get that, but who knows? Might have to put my big boy pants on and turn it up 
4300 seems to be a sweet spot for voltage and latency for me if I was to choose one.
Maybe you could take a run at that


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> 4300 seems to be a sweet spot for voltage and latency for me if I was to choose one.


4266c16 requires alot of voltage too. So I would have to run 17-18-18.


----------



## Imprezzion

Ok I tried every trick and voltage I know of but the most I got out of it was a boot to windows at 4000 16-17-17-39-500-2T at 1,6v DRAM, 1,40v IO 1,45v SA. And it was far from stable.. poor IMC lol.. at least I got 2x16GB DR to boot 4000 lol...

I'm just trying to see what I can tighten on my 3850 profile now. I mean, I'm at 14-15-15 already for the primary and these don't run straight timings either.

I'm testing with tWR 10, tRAS 30 tRFC 300 tREFI 32400, tXP 4 and tWRPRE 26 now on 1.56v DRAM, 1,30v IO 1,35v SA. At least it booted and didn't BSOD or error out immediately upon starting memtesthelper + HCI @ 16 threads 28GB passes.

EDIT: nevermind. 8% it already errors. My previous setup is so on the edge of stability ANY change immediately makes it unstable. It did pass 9000% ish on the old settings overnight but even if I just change like, one single timing like tWR or tRFC it will immediately crash.

I tried 1T CR as well, it will actually kinda do it, but not on C14. It can on 3600 C14, but for 3800+ it can only do 1T at C16. C14 2T is generally faster in AIDA and gives more room for tighter subtimings so not going 1T unless I can somehow get like, 3600 C12 1T haha.

Do you guys think I should try to drop the frequency down to like, 3733/3600 and try to get way lower timings and thus latency sacrificing a bit of bandwidth? It might be easier on the IMC and maybe I can get 1T C13 or something on 3733/3600 which might end up faster latency wise. I mean, for games latency matters more then bandwidth right? All I do with this PC is game and stream.

EDIT: played around with 3600 and 1T. Could get 13-14-14-28-280-1T working but it needed a LOT of voltages. It passed 100% @ 1,61v DRAM but that's too much for me.


----------



## TheBoom

munternet said:


> Voltages are fine
> Still a little head room if you need it


What would you consider a safe daily max for IO and SA?

10th gen is a little weird in the sense that too high imc voltages cause instability as well. Trying to get vcore, vccsa and vccio to work together is a real pain in the butt lol.


----------



## Arctucas

I bought this kit. But, before anyone says it; no, it is not on neither G.Skill nor eVGA QVL list.

Been trying to find a good 24/7 profile.

So far, managed this:










Any thoughts (other than overclocking, which does not seem possible for some reason) on improving performance?

Thanks


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> Maybe it was true long ago
> Try -2 and see how you go
> There was no way to stabilize with low sa and io unless I dropped tRAS
> 
> Check out the voltages on 4400c18
> View attachment 2460187


No such rule exists. 
Every system is different. You're also running a weak stress test. Use Anta777 and newest beta of OCCT's memory test and test both AVX and SSE.

16/17/31 @ 4400 mhz and 1.5v dimm, 1.3v io/sa failed with one TM5 extreme1 anta777 error in 30 minutes.
16/17/34 passed 1 cycle successfully (1 hour) and passed 1 hour each of OCCT AVX and SSE (memory test, 7.0 beta), yes I have a license.

So you can't just blindly apply a rule to every person running dual rank.


----------



## garyd9

I've been happily tightening the timings of the 4000-C17-18-18-38 kit, but I seem to have hit a brick wall long before I expected to. The below timings are being run at 4000Mhz @ 1.40v. My next step was to tinker with tWR (via adjustmenting tWRPRE to 32), but that resulted in no measurable speed increase and perhaps even a slight reduction. Adjusting tCWL below 16 (it's actually setting 16 from Auto) results in a training failure.

I also tried setting tRTP to 6, but that also seemed to result in a speed reduction. 

(I'm measuring "speed" by using aida64's memory benchmark, and taking the best of 5 or 6 runs of "read", "write", "copy" and "latency" to measure.)

Where should I go from here? Increasing frequency doesn't work out (I can't even get to 4100) and lowering CL to 16 causes instability when the machine goes into standby (compliments of Intel's MEI - as discussed above.) I'm using "maximus tweaks" mode 1 (as mode 2 causes my write speeds to tank). Manually set settings are the primaries and rRFC, tRRD_L, tRRD_S, tFAW, and tREFI


----------



## munternet

TheBoom said:


> What would you consider a safe daily max for IO and SA?
> 
> 10th gen is a little weird in the sense that too high imc voltages cause instability as well. Trying to get vcore, vccsa and vccio to work together is a real pain in the butt lol.


The Intel limits for this platform seem pretty high to me.
@OLDFATSHEEP mentioned it *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Arctucas said:


> I bought this kit. But, before anyone says it; no, it is not on neither G.Skill nor eVGA QVL list.
> 
> Been trying to find a good 24/7 profile.
> 
> So far, managed this:
> 
> View attachment 2460221
> 
> 
> Any thoughts (other than overclocking, which does not seem possible for some reason) on improving performance?
> 
> Thanks


Looks good to me  
If you want to tweak something, have you tried lower tCWL with the 3 associated voltages?


----------



## munternet

Falkentyne said:


> No such rule exists.
> Every system is different. You're also running a weak stress test. Use Anta777 and newest beta of OCCT's memory test and test both AVX and SSE.
> 
> 16/17/31 @ 4400 mhz and 1.5v dimm, 1.3v io/sa failed with one TM5 extreme1 anta777 error in 30 minutes.
> 16/17/34 passed 1 cycle successfully (1 hour) and passed 1 hour each of OCCT AVX and SSE (memory test, 7.0 beta), yes I have a license.
> 
> So you can't just blindly apply a rule to every person running dual rank.


I was more noticing this with the Apex XII
How did it go with 32 on the Extreme?
I know there is no such rule, hence the  but I can't even train using the "rule" and I see quite a few other people with the Apex XII also ignoring it.
Thanks for the tip on the testing software. I will give it a go


----------



## Falkentyne

munternet said:


> I was more noticing this with the Apex XII
> How did it go with 32 on the Extreme?
> I know there is no such rule, hence the  but I can't even train using the "rule" and I see quite a few other people with the Apex XII also ignoring it.
> Thanks for the tip on the testing software. I will give it a go


Thought I posted this before.
This is my max daily stable with 1.5v vdimm, 1.3v IO and SA. Passing 1 hour of TM5 anta777 and no problems with OCCT RAM test AVX and SSE tests or 112k AVX disabled prime.
1 hour of anta777 is good enough for a daily.
Tried to take a screenshot of a tm5 extreme1 run this morning with Print Screen, but it black screened the GUI with an out of memory error after cycle 1 was complete and I pressed PS.

4500 mhz failed badly in TM5 at 16/17/34 at 1.60v. Lots of errors.
Thing wouldn't even take any custom RTL's at 4500 or IOL's regardless of what I threw at it (and some pros on the OC Discord were walking me through it. It just wouldn't train unless RTL's were at auto).
Didn't even bother with looser timings.
Maybe it's the RAM, maybe it's because it's a 4 dimm board or maybe it's the ES CPU. Don't know, don't really care. Not interested in running stress tests for hours when I can just use a respectable daily.


----------



## TheBoom

munternet said:


> The Intel limits for this platform seem pretty high to me.
> @OLDFATSHEEP mentioned it _Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> Looks good to me
> If you want to tweak something, have you tried lower tCWL with the 3 associated voltages?


Wow that seems pretty high but I suppose those are more for short extreme benches no?

Asus has anything above 1.25v on IO/SA color coded as magenta and above 1.35v turns red.


----------



## Betroz

Falkentyne said:


> Tried to take a screenshot of a tm5 extreme1 run this morning with Print Screen, but it black screened the GUI with an out of memory error after cycle 1 was complete and I pressed PS.


Print Screen is the old way. Windows has a small program called Snipping Tool. 

Your daily is about the same as mine, except I have to use tRFC 350, tCKE is set at 6. My sticks need a bit more VDIMM, and my IMC more juice with 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA.


----------



## munternet

TheBoom said:


> Wow that seems pretty high but I suppose those are more for short extreme benches no?
> 
> Asus has anything above 1.25v on IO/SA color coded as magenta and above 1.35v turns red.


Sorry, I meant "associated timings"
@OLDFATSHEEP is pretty hard out and runs fairly high sa and io for his daily if needed 
I personally would probably not go much more than 1.45v sa and io


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> I personally would probably not go much more than 1.45v sa and io


Not me either.


----------



## Nizzen

Clock'EM UP guy with his new binned SP 110 10900k 

Almost 1.7 VCCSA and don't care


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm jealous. I need a Z490 platform lol. Even normal 4 slot boards with a 10900K seems to clock very well with 2x16GB DR DIMM's while I'm sitting here after a whole day of tweaking random timings, voltages and such on my Z390 9900K getting absolutely nowhere as I'm at such a hard wall lol.. Might just skip getting a 3080 and just sticking with my 2080 Ti and in stead get a 10900K with a Apex or a MSI board as I just kinda love everything about MSI except the fact they don't have a 2 DIMM board...


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I'm jealous. I need a Z490 platform lol. Even normal 4 slot boards with a 10900K seems to clock very well with 2x16GB DR DIMM's while I'm sitting here after a whole day of tweaking random timings, voltages and such on my Z390 9900K getting absolutely nowhere as I'm at such a hard wall lol.. Might just skip getting a 3080 and just sticking with my 2080 Ti and in stead get a 10900K with a Apex or a MSI board as I just kinda love everything about MSI except the fact they don't have a 2 DIMM board...


Not a silly idea...
Your 2080 Ti will be fine for some time yet unless you are going high res, high frequency.
There seems to be much enthusiasm for the MSI Z490 boards for memory overclocking


----------



## garyd9

Salve1412 said:


> Regarding your S3 issues, may I ask you if Intel Management Interface Driver is installed in your system? If so, would you mind temporarily disabling it and test S3 again? I've got a Maximus XII Extreme and I noticed analogous S3 problems with two different RAM kits (one of them is Trident Z Royal Gold 2x16GB 4000MHz 17-18-18-38): both of the kits are perfectly stable during stress tests, but they cause the PC to fail resuming from sleep, in my case only if they are overclocked past 4300MHz, no matter what voltages or timings (XMP vs manual) I set. If I disable Intel Management Engine Interface in Device Manager, however, the issue disappear. I know you experienced the issue at lower frequencies than mine, but I'd still be curious to see if disabling MEI could help...


I'm not entirely sure how, but I think (hope) I might have found away around this. After I had found myself getting really diminishing (and even negative) returns from tweaking CL17, I loaded up my previous saved (and unable to resume from S3) CL16 profile. I then starting tinkering. Other than tightening and fixing some odd timings, here are the changes I made: I enabled "Trace Centering" and I changed the "DRAM Switching Frequency" from "auto" to "Manual" and "400." I also reduced VCCSA and VCCIO from 1.3 to 1.25.

So far, I've only attempted to resume from standby twice since making those changes, but both have been successful (and I had 100% failure before.) (One of those times, my keyboard whacked out, but unplug/replug fixed that and it's an issue I've always had with this Ducky Shine 5 kb and Intel machines.)


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> I'm jealous. I need a Z490 platform lol. Even normal 4 slot boards with a 10900K seems to clock very well with 2x16GB DR DIMM's while I'm sitting here after a whole day of tweaking random timings, voltages and such on my Z390 9900K getting absolutely nowhere as I'm at such a hard wall lol.. Might just skip getting a 3080 and just sticking with my 2080 Ti and in stead get a 10900K with a Apex or a MSI board as I just kinda love everything about MSI except the fact they don't have a 2 DIMM board...


Get an msi z490 ace. 
I can run 4600-4700 dual rank 2x16gb on it and it boots every time without much hassle. 
Had Asus z490 before and was disappointed. 
Training above 4400 failed very often, 4600 only possible with much tryharding and odt. 

Changed for msi z490 ace, Put 4600 voilà just boots in 3 seconds. 
Right now running 4400 c17 with 1,45vdimm 1,3Sa/1,3io and really tight timings. 
36ns and 69000 read 68000 write 65500 copy. 
Gsat stable.


----------



## garyd9

What am I doing wrong here? 1.45v, 4000-16-16-16-34. CPU is at 5GHz all core with with ring clock at 4.6. It seems like I should be seeing better read/write/latency than this:


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> Get an msi z490 ace.
> I can run 4600-4700 dual rank 2x16gb on it and it boots every time without much hassle.
> Had Asus z490 before and was disappointed.
> Training above 4400 failed very often, 4600 only possible with much tryharding and odt.
> 
> Changed for msi z490 ace, Put 4600 voilà just boots in 3 seconds.
> Right now running 4400 c17 with 1,45vdimm 1,3Sa/1,3io and really tight timings.
> 36ns and 69000 read 68000 write 65500 copy.
> Gsat stable.


Now that is great to hear as my current board is a Z390 Ace which I love a lot. Well, time to hit the classifieds again and see if I can find a 10900K for a good price. No sense in buying a new one. The board I'll probably have to get new as no one sells one but k.

Well, no secondhand ones. And which 10900K should I get. The K, the much cheaper KF or the K Avengers Edition which wierdly enough new is much cheaper then a regular K.


----------



## Betroz

garyd9 said:


> What am I doing wrong here?


Do you have any RGB software or other crap running in the background...?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> Now that is great to hear as my current board is a Z390 Ace which I love a lot. Well, time to hit the classifieds again and see if I can find a 10900K for a good price. No sense in buying a new one. The board I'll probably have to get new as no one sells one but k.
> 
> Well, no secondhand ones. And which 10900K should I get. The K, the much cheaper KF or the K Avengers Edition which wierdly enough new is much cheaper then a regular K.


Don't waste money. If you just wanna play with rams, go straight for the "Z490 Godlike", or "Z490i Unify". They are truly great.

And, regular 10900K should be a good choice. Lower down-bin models, such as 10600K, usually have very bad imc. But you know it's still a kind of silicon lottery. A way to get a good imc is to buy a binned/used 10900K with SP 95+.


----------



## SunnyStefan

garyd9 said:


> What am I doing wrong here? 1.45v, 4000-16-16-16-34. CPU is at 5GHz all core with with ring clock at 4.6. It seems like I should be seeing better read/write/latency than this:


It looks like your RTLs trained improperly, RTL CHA D1 is 61 and RTL CHB D1 is 64. The gap between these two values is too large, it shouldn't exceed two.

Are your RTLs set manually, or on auto? If they're on auto, try powering down your PC and then checking those after boot. Often times they will change, hopefully for the better.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> And, regular 10900K should be a good choice. Lower down-bin models, such as 10600K, usually have very bad imc. But you know it's still a kind of silicon lottery. A way to get a good imc is to buy a binned/used 10900K with SP 95+.


Have you tested any 10900KF?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Have you tested any 10900KF?


I know one has an SP126 10900KF. The Vcc_IO needed was a little higher compared to other SP100+ 10900Ks. Vcc_SA seemed no much difference.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I know one has an SP126 10900KF. The Vcc_IO needed was a little higher compared to other SP100+ 10900Ks. Vcc_SA seemed no much difference.


Ok. I have a SP63 10900K that needs alot of voltage : vcore, IO and SA. So I am considering picking up a 10900KF. Too bad if that turns out to be a SP57 chip or something...LOL


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Ok. I have a SP63 10900K that needs alot of voltage : vcore, IO and SA. So I am considering picking up a 10900KF. Too bad if that turns out to be a SP57 chip or something...LOL


IMC binning is much harder than core binning. Probably need to repeat "buy-bin-sell" for several cycles...

Besides, you need to make sure you're having a good pair of sticks.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Besides, you need to make sure you're having a good pair of sticks.


Well judge this. (IO is a bit higher now than in the screenshot, 1.37v...) :


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Well judge this. (IO is a bit higher now than in the screenshot, 1.37v...) :
> View attachment 2460261


Ummm.. 1.54V was a bit high for 4400 16-17, and SA was also a bit high...

Try to set DRAM switching freq to 500KHz, and DRAM current cap. to 130%. DLLBwen needs to be 1.

If under this condition your sticks can run 4400 16-16 @1.55V, your sticks should be fine.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try to set DRAM switching freq to 500KHz, and DRAM current cap. to 130%. DLLBwen needs to be 1.


DLLBwen is set to 0 as Falkentyne adviced me to. So...1 is better? Could it simply be that my IMC is to blame?


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If under this condition your sticks can run 4400 16-16 @1.55V, your sticks should be fine.


I tried it - BSOD under Windows startup. My sticks don't like straight timings (which I knew).


----------



## Imprezzion

There's no difference in bins between the regular K and the K Avengers Edition right? I can get new Avengers Edition cheaper then a normal K. The KF is like 30 bucks less but I'd rather have a full K with iGPU.

I'm not going to get a godlike, that thing costs easily double of what an Ace costs and that isn't worth it for me. The -i Unify doesn't have the slots I need so, Ace is the logical choice.

EDIT: I can't run straight either on my 2x8 or 2x16 kits. My 2x8 did 4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T on 1.55v (bad bin, 3466C16) and the 2x16's I can't currently test above 3800-3866 as the CPU/board limit me there but I can do 3850 14-15-15-32-300-1T at 1.60v and 2T at 1.55v. 14-14-14 boots fine but errors in seconds in any test.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> The KF is like 30 bucks less but I'd rather have a full K with iGPU.


Why? Are you gonna be using that iGPU? According to Silicon Lottery, more 10900KF CPUs are able to do higher frequencies :





Historical Binning Statistics


Historical binning statistics from Silicon Lottery




siliconlottery.com


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> There's no difference in bins between the regular K and the K Avengers Edition right? I can get new Avengers Edition cheaper then a normal K. The KF is like 30 bucks less but I'd rather have a full K with iGPU.
> 
> I'm not going to get a godlike, that thing costs easily double of what an Ace costs and that isn't worth it for me. The -i Unify doesn't have the slots I need so, Ace is the logical choice.
> 
> EDIT: I can't run straight either on my 2x8 or 2x16 kits. My 2x8 did 4200-16-17-17-28-280-2T on 1.55v (bad bin, 3466C16) and the 2x16's I can't currently test above 3800-3866 as the CPU/board limit me there but I can do 3850 14-15-15-32-300-1T at 1.60v and 2T at 1.55v. 14-14-14 boots fine but errors in seconds in any test.


I tested one 10900ka, so testsample 1. It was sp63 and waaay worse than my first normal 10900k, wich is actual pretty good (sp63). So no spesial binning on KA cpu. You can claim the game if you bought ka cpu at Intel.com


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> Why? Are you gonna be using that iGPU? According to Silicon Lottery, more 10900KF CPUs are able to do higher frequencies :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Historical Binning Statistics
> 
> 
> Historical binning statistics from Silicon Lottery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siliconlottery.com


True. And no I won't use the iGPU much. I thought of using it for my second monitor to reduce the latency and load on my 2080Ti while using hardware accelerated scheduling. It helps, but isn't a must-have. Don't have it now either as the Z390 Ace doesn't have iGPU ports.


----------



## Salve1412

So far so good. CPU is 10900K, RAM F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB. Voltages in BIOS are: 1.475V DRAM Voltage, 1.19V VCCIO, 1.23V System Agent Voltage. What was a good Prime95 test for VCCIO+Vcore? 112k fixed in place AVX disabled?

















garyd9 said:


> I'm not entirely sure how, but I think (hope) I might have found away around this. After I had found myself getting really diminishing (and even negative) returns from tweaking CL17, I loaded up my previous saved (and unable to resume from S3) CL16 profile. I then starting tinkering. Other than tightening and fixing some odd timings, here are the changes I made: I enabled "Trace Centering" and I changed the "DRAM Switching Frequency" from "auto" to "Manual" and "400." I also reduced VCCSA and VCCIO from 1.3 to 1.25.
> 
> So far, I've only attempted to resume from standby twice since making those changes, but both have been successful (and I had 100% failure before.) (One of those times, my keyboard whacked out, but unplug/replug fixed that and it's an issue I've always had with this Ducky Shine 5 kb and Intel machines.)


Interesting! So after those changes you succesfully resumed from S3 even with MEI enabled? I already have the DRAM Switching Frequency manually set to 400, though, the only difference from you is Trace Centering which I left disabled. Or maybe at this point it could be some subtimings, I don't know...however, about your low scores in Aida, if it isn't related to some software running in the background as someone already suggested, I can tell you it happened to me a couple of times during RAM overclocking that I suddenly started to get really low benchmark results, usually after I reverted to stable (or semi-stable) timings after testing really unstable ones (for example timings causing system to fail POST or causing instant BSODs in Windows and such). When that occurred, a CMOS reset via the rear button followed by reloading the same settings/profile seemingly solved the problem. I don't know, if you can't find a solution maybe you can try that.


----------



## garyd9

Betroz said:


> Do you have any RGB software or other crap running in the background...?


No RGB software, but it's Windows 10... there's always some crap running in the background. I'll go through my autoruns and see what I can find. (Referencing the "autoruns" app by sysinternals. It shows literally everything that automatically runs.)



SunnyStefan said:


> It looks like your RTLs trained improperly, RTL CHA D1 is 61 and RTL CHB D1 is 64. The gap between these two values is too large, it shouldn't exceed two.
> 
> Are your RTLs set manually, or on auto? If they're on auto, try powering down your PC and then checking those after boot. Often times they will change, hopefully for the better.


The RTL stuff is all set to 'Auto'. After a power down and reboot, they are still at 61 and 64. Is there some kind of training parameter I can change that might bring them closer together?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> I tried it - BSOD under Windows startup. My sticks don't like straight timings (which I knew).


Then it might be your sticks. tRCD mainly depends on the quality of sticks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

garyd9 said:


> The RTL stuff is all set to 'Auto'. After a power down and reboot, they are still at 61 and 64. Is there some kind of training parameter I can change that might bring them closer together?


You need to turn off MRC Fast boot, and MCH Full check.


----------



## garyd9

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to turn off MRC Fast boot, and MCH Full check.


MRC Fast boot is already disabled. Are you saying that MCH Full Check should be ENABLED or DISABLED (it's on 'Auto' at the moment.)

Another boot (to check the above settings) result in this. Looks like the RTL's are in sync now. IO-L's are 9/7. Is that okay?


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Ok. I have a SP63 10900K that needs alot of voltage : vcore, IO and SA. So I am considering picking up a 10900KF. Too bad if that turns out to be a SP57 chip or something...LOL


I have an sp63 10900k and can run 5GHz allcore @ 1,16v stable. 
5,2GHz needs like 1,25v
Imc is very good aswell, can run 4400 dual rank at 1,3/1,3.
Could probably even go lower but i have no nerves for running the Tests for days again. 
So i wouldnt give that much About SP Rating...


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm ordering tonight. Just sold my other 9900KF and Maxi Hero already with some other stuff I had laying around (random Kraken X62 and a 750w seasonic gold) and my current setup us spoken for as well so.

Still doubting between a 10900K Avengers Edition (€499) or 10900KF (€469). Board will be a MSI Ace, no contest there.


----------



## SoldierRBT

@cstkl1 Is your F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB better bin than the F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB?

I'm planning in buying one but I'm not sure which one would be better. Looking for 4400MHz 17-18-18 daily use.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> @cstkl1 Is your F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB better bin than the F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB?
> 
> I'm planning in buying one but I'm not sure which one would be better. Looking for 4400MHz 17-18-18 daily use.


its terrible. either that or maximus xii formula sux.
it loves c16. hates c17. ironic since its binnef c17.. c16 scales superbly.
it cant scale on cl15,cl17,cl18

since its just lucky draw better just take the 4kc17 thats way cheaper.

cause i think gskill narrowed their binning now to finally start selling the 4400c17 kit. pretty sure they aint gonna be cheap.


so that 4266kit running 4300 trc 280 [email protected]

its stable [email protected] but the temps kindda rocketing on it because airflow is blocked by the asus helios casing's 24pin cable management cover so 24/7 is 4300c16..


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

garyd9 said:


> MRC Fast boot is already disabled. Are you saying that MCH Full Check should be ENABLED or DISABLED (it's on 'Auto' at the moment.)
> 
> Another boot (to check the above settings) result in this. Looks like the RTL's are in sync now. IO-L's are 9/7. Is that okay?
> 
> View attachment 2460284


My mistake, it should be ENABLED. Maybe you can manually set IOL to 8-7, which worked on MSI boards.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> I'm ordering tonight. Just sold my other 9900KF and Maxi Hero already with some other stuff I had laying around (random Kraken X62 and a 750w seasonic gold) and my current setup us spoken for as well so.
> 
> Still doubting between a 10900K Avengers Edition (€499) or 10900KF (€469). Board will be a MSI Ace, no contest there.


buy both. see which clocks better.


----------



## nilssohn

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Maybe you can manually set IOL to 8-7, which worked on MSI boards.


I would try to set 60/62/7/7 instead. And pls always change an RTL value together with the associated IOL, not one of them alone.


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> So i wouldnt give that much About SP Rating...


v/f curve is probably better to go by, and my SP63 has a 5.1 point of 1.369v...and I use AIO cooling, so I am at the limit. So a new chip with ~1.25 v/f point for 5.1 would be nice to get. And of course a chance to lower IO and SA to around 1.3v as a bonus would be good too.


----------



## Hiikeri

Betroz said:


> Well judge this. (IO is a bit higher now than in the screenshot, 1.37v...) :
> View attachment 2460261


Why it shows that yours both modules are on Channel A (=64bit bandwidth)?


----------



## Betroz

Hiikeri said:


> Why it shows that yours both modules are on Channel A (=64bit bandwidth)?


No, look again.


----------



## Hiikeri

Channel A dimm1
Channel A dimm2

No ram on channel B. Even it shows Channels # dual.
Maybe MB issue that ATC shows it then wrong?


----------



## garyd9

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> My mistake, it should be ENABLED. Maybe you can manually set IOL to 8-7, which worked on MSI boards.





nilssohn said:


> I would try to set 60/62/7/7 instead. And pls always change an RTL value together with the associated IOL, not one of them alone.


If I set the RTL's for CHA1, DIMM1 and CHAB DIMM1 (there's two each) to anything (62.. even 64) I get a 55 code.


----------



## nilssohn

Only the D1 values are of any interest for you. Leave D0 untouched.


----------



## garyd9

garyd9 said:


> If I set the RTL's for CHA1, DIMM1 and CHAB DIMM1 (there's two each) to anything (62.. even 64) I get a 55 code.


Played with that for a while.. No matter what, setting the RTL values in BIOS would result in a 55. However, looking at the auto-generated numbers in BIOS led me to believe that I was perhaps being a bit optimistic with a tRAS of 34. The RTL numbers would be all over the place (between 62 and 68 for the attached DIMMs) over different reboots. If I upped VDIMM to 1.475 or dropped tRAS to 36, the numbers stabilized at 61-62 RTL and 7-8 IO-L.



nilssohn said:


> Only the D1 value are of any interest for you. Leave D0 untouched.


Yes. In the BIOS, there are TWO entries for each CHA/DIMM combination for a total of 8 RTL's and 8 IO-L's. Often times, they don't even match. I'll reboot again and write down the exact text...


----------



## garyd9

The ones with the asterisks are the ones I tried to change:

DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0)
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1)
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) *
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) *
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0)
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1)
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) *
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) *


----------



## nilssohn

Not sure now for lack of experience with 16GB dual rank modules. Someone else should take this pls.


----------



## t4t3r

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Don't waste money. If you just wanna play with rams, go straight for the "Z490 Godlike", or "Z490i Unify". They are truly great.
> 
> And, regular 10900K should be a good choice. Lower down-bin models, such as 10600K, usually have very bad imc. But you know it's still a kind of silicon lottery. A way to get a good imc is to buy a binned/used 10900K with SP 95+.


Do you have any direct experience with the ITX Unify? I recently tried out a regular Z490 Unify for a few days but ended up with a poor 10700k sample so didn't get to push it much on memory. I love the Unify layout, features, and msi's bios, and had originally planned to pick up the ITX Unify, but I had read some things on HWBot forums and other places that it was really limited on memory tuning for 1T. It seems like a great potential memory OCer with the SMT DIMMs, trace layout, etc, but wanted to get some real-world experience.


----------



## garyd9

It's not a problem. It just seems that the ASUS firmware can set different RTL/IO-L's for each rank on a DIMM. However, actually setting those seems to either expose a firmware bug, or some incompatibility. Either way, it doesn't really matter now that I figured out the reason that training was giving me strange values. 

Now I need to decide if tRAS 34 vs tRAS 36 is worth 25mv.


----------



## Imprezzion

cstkl1 said:


> buy both. see which clocks better.


I mean, it's not like i'm short on money right now but i'm not made of the stuff either lol.
I'll start with a KF as they are on sale now for 469. Ordered it together with an MSI ACE. Should be here tomorrow.
If it clocks terrible i'll just send it back and order a K Avengers. 

How can i check SP / V/F point on a MSI board? Never seen it before..


----------



## garyd9

Imprezzion said:


> How can i check SP / V/F point on a MSI board? Never seen it before..


If it's not exposed by the BIOS, I think you can also access the V/F table via Intel's XTU.


----------



## Falkentyne

garyd9 said:


> It's not a problem. It just seems that the ASUS firmware can set different RTL/IO-L's for each rank on a DIMM. However, actually setting those seems to either expose a firmware bug, or some incompatibility. Either way, it doesn't really matter now that I figured out the reason that training was giving me strange values.
> 
> Now I need to decide if tRAS 34 vs tRAS 36 is worth 25mv.


I believe the method is something like this
(For me I just followed Tyllo's RTL and IOL direct values since we have literally the same dimms, but if you're starting off):

Start increasing IOL offset by 1 until it doesn't train, once you find where it doesn't train, reset bios, reload your profile and set it to the last offset that worked, and when you get into windows use Asrock timing to check IOL values

Manually set the IOLs to those values and see what rtls train at. Start with those rtls in bios and go down by 1 until it doesn't train.

Once both are as low as possible, enable round trip latency (a setting in Asus BIOS), if you wish.

And you can use RTL Init values the same way but you lower init values to decrease RTL values until it wont train.

(increasing IOL offset lowers IOL's. Decreasing RTL Init lowers RTL's).
You tune RTL/IOL and it'll drop latency and then you may be able to reduce IO and SA)


----------



## bscool

garyd9 said:


> No RGB software, but it's Windows 10... there's always some crap running in the background. I'll go through my autoruns and see what I can find. (Referencing the "autoruns" app by sysinternals. It shows literally everything that automatically runs.)
> 
> 
> The RTL stuff is all set to 'Auto'. After a power down and reboot, they are still at 61 and 64. Is there some kind of training parameter I can change that might bring them closer together?


I take your are using MODE 2? I used Mode 1/Auto or that is what i found best to get 4266 c17 stable on z490 Hero. I didn't take any screen shots and I no longer have the board as it was a build for someone else

It could also be your board is "weak" or IMC or mem is "weak"? I had 2 z490 Hero's and the first would only do 4133 using 2x16gb and it was a pain to get working. I sent it back and got another one and the second one did 4266c17 memtest stable. But the first initial training takes a long time, like 30-60 seconds or more. So long I would think it must have failed. But once trained it booted fast after that and was stable(if all other settings are set correctly).

I had 2 kits of Team 8pack 3600c16 and 1 Gskill 3200c14 and they all did 4266c17 stable using memtest86(Cpus tested 10850k and 10700k), Karhu and Prime 112fft avx disabled for testing stability in the z490 Hero and 4400c17 in Unify Hero needed 1.5v dim and think io/sa was in the 1.3-1.4 range.

I didn't use Trace Centering, I thought that was more for helping 1t stability but I could be wrong. I haven't really seen people use it other than on 1t on boards like the Apex.


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> I'm ordering tonight. Just sold my other 9900KF and Maxi Hero already with some other stuff I had laying around (random Kraken X62 and a 750w seasonic gold) and my current setup us spoken for as well so.
> 
> Still doubting between a 10900K Avengers Edition (€499) or 10900KF (€469). Board will be a MSI Ace, no contest there.


Asus Apex xii enters the chat, and want to play


----------



## ducegt

Falkentyne said:


> Start increasing IOL offset by 1 until it doesn't train, once you find where it doesn't train, reset bios, reload your profile and set it to the last offset that worked, and when you get into windows use Asrock timing to check IOL values


With Mode 1, _lowering _the offset is what lowers RTLs.

To everyone with 2x16gb kits, I dare you to post screenshots with testing after 4+ hours and no errors 😄


----------



## Imprezzion

Nizzen said:


> Asus Apex xii enters the chat, and want to play
> 
> View attachment 2460307


I know I know.. but the Apex is over €130 more and Z490 doesn't really seem to be all that limited frequency wise on a 4 slot board as Z390 was.

I'm not looking for records, just my 9900K Z390 combo is really holding back my memory now and as I'm not going to get a 3080 the extra few FPS a 10900K gives my 2080 Ti even if it's just a little is still something right?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

t4t3r said:


> Do you have any direct experience with the ITX Unify? I recently tried out a regular Z490 Unify for a few days but ended up with a poor 10700k sample so didn't get to push it much on memory. I love the Unify layout, features, and msi's bios, and had originally planned to pick up the ITX Unify, but I had read some things on HWBot forums and other places that it was really limited on memory tuning for 1T. It seems like a great potential memory OCer with the SMT DIMMs, trace layout, etc, but wanted to get some real-world experience.


Non-direct. I just have a Godlike for my workstation. But I am in the MSI discussion group. TOPPC has already optimized the bios for 5000MHz OC for many ram dies. The 1.2V bios was just out early Sep, optimized specially for 1T, you may try it out.

Oh I just checked google drive. They have updated the bios to 1.2W:





Z490 Test - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

garyd9 said:


> If I set the RTL's for CHA1, DIMM1 and CHAB DIMM1 (there's two each) to anything (62.. even 64) I get a 55 code.


That should be a training problem... Maybe just try other frequencies.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I mean, it's not like i'm short on money right now but i'm not made of the stuff either lol.
> I'll start with a KF as they are on sale now for 469. Ordered it together with an MSI ACE. Should be here tomorrow.
> If it clocks terrible i'll just send it back and order a K Avengers.
> 
> How can i check SP / V/F point on a MSI board? Never seen it before..


You may check the vid of 5.3GHz under AVX load (eg R20 or AIDA FPU only). Under 1.4V should mean a golden chip.


----------



## garyd9

ducegt said:


> With Mode 1, _lowering _the offset is what lowers RTLs.
> 
> To everyone with 2x16gb kits, I dare you to post screenshots with testing after 4+ hours and no errors 😄


a 4 hours test... the longest test I've run took less than 3 hours (TM5, 3x cycles of extreme anta777) Not having use of my machine for 4 hours would be difficult...


----------



## SunnyStefan

I'm under the impression that on Asus Z490 motherboards enabling or disabling the setting *round trip latency* in *memory training algorithms* seems to influence the behavior of the IO-L offset setting. With round trip latency *enabled* on my Apex XII, increasing my IO-L offset values will tighten my RTLs & IO-Ls. If I *disable *round trip latency, the behavior is reversed and I need to lower my IO-L offset values to tighten RTLs and IO-Ls. This behavior was observed when operating with maximus tweak mode 1, mode 2 may or may not influence this (I'm guessing it probably doesn't).


----------



## ducegt

@garyd9 Test while sleeping eh

@SunnyStefan You are correct (I have M12A too) and thank you. Using enabled, I can finally get my IOLs down. I think tweak mode does influence it, but not certain. 

Also wanted to share a dirty tip that I just learned, end task explorer.exe before running Aida64 for higher and more consistent scores.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> I tried it - BSOD under Windows startup. My sticks don't like straight timings (which I knew).


I was getting BSOD with tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS. Maybe just me, maybe the M12A, don't know.
Can you try lowering tRAS to 32 for straight 16s since you have M12A, or close and try again if you can be bothered? Also those 5s in the tertiaries might be too tight.
I'm making a little headway with mine but too soon to show any results yet


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Can you try lowering tRAS to 32 for straight 16s since you have M12A, or close and try again if you can be bothered?


Another user in here, Mumriken, had my sticks in his system (also M12A) and could not get straight primaries to work either.


----------



## KedarWolf

I've posted a few times how to properly get custom RTL's and IOL's to work, but I'm tired of saying how, then peeps say they can't get it to work a week later.


----------



## Betroz

KedarWolf said:


> I've posted a few times how to properly get custom RTL's and IOL's to work, but I'm tired of saying how, then peeps say they can't get it to work a week later.


How does that comment help anybody?


----------



## KedarWolf

Betroz said:


> How does that comment help anybody?


it doesn't, just voicing my frustration with having to repeat the same thing over and over without people actually reading the forum or using the search function or Google (and yes, I know in the new format search is pretty much broken, but still).


----------



## KedarWolf

But here, a Google search found my post.

How I used to manually set my RTL's and IOL's etc. low on my Z390 is I'd set all my timings as I'm used to with IOL's and TRL's on Auto, reboot, change RAM speed to something like 2666 with IOL's and RTL's on Auto, reboot, see what they are at on Auto, then manually set them to that, they'll be low, reset my RAM speed to 4200MHZ or whatever I usually run it at, reboot, then the manual settings would work.

Seems there is some fixed formula to how they need to be set or won't boot. If 2666 don't work try 3200 or 3600 IOL's etc, a RAM speed on the divider you use.


----------



## Salve1412

ducegt said:


> To everyone with 2x16gb kits, I dare you to post screenshots with testing after 4+ hours and no errors 😄


Well, it's no longer than 4 hour, but here's an errorless GSAT:









What is more difficult to me is to confirm that my overclocked CPU, whose Core Voltage is set to Adaptive mode and that was previously stable in Prime95 (e.g. 112k FFT AVX disabled), can 100% retain that stability after overclocking RAM to relatively high frequencies with really tight timings, since Vdroop will increase and most likely reduce Vcore too much, forcing me to compensate by going well beyond the voltage suggested by V/F curve for the Turbo frequency I'm running it at.


----------



## Betroz

Salve1412 said:


> Well, it's no longer than 4 hour, but here's an errorless GSAT:


Amazing how you can run that with tRFC 286 and be that stable. I need tRFC 350 at 4400...and alot more voltage.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Amazing how you can run that with tRFC 286 and be that stable. I need tRFC 350 at 4400...and alot more voltage.


That is quite a nice overclock 
I think part of it is to set tRFC low, then lower tREFI to match, rather than raising the voltages.
Effectively you are doing shorter charges and also shortening the activity time, something I'm playing with at the moment.







Now that I'm stable I will start raising tREFI rather than raise io and sa again. I can get higher overclocks stable this way


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> I think part of it is to set tRFC low, then lower tREFI to match, rather than raising the voltages.


I know low tRFC is good for performance, but I don't know the relationship between it and tREFI, or what performance impact tREFI has. Performance in AIDA64 membench is one thing, but what about games?

Btw, that was an open question for all in here.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Is 1.65v safe for daily usage?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> I know low tRFC is good for performance, but I don't know the relationship between it and tREFI, or what performance impact tREFI has. Performance in AIDA64 membench is one thing, but what about games?
> 
> Btw, that was an open question for all in here.


tREFI just the refresh interval. If data are reading, but at this moment the ram starts to refresh, the performance will be impacted.

DR bdie can usually do 130ns of tRFC. You can do 130*SPEEP MHz/2000 to calculate the tRFC value. For 4400 it would be exactly tRFC=286.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Is 1.65v safe for daily usage?


If you can control the temp then yes.


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> tREFI just the refresh interval. If data are reading, but at this moment the ram starts to refresh, the performance will be impacted.
> 
> DR bdie can usually do 130ns of tRFC. You can do 130*SPEEP MHz/2000 to calculate the tRFC value. For 4400 it would be exactly tRFC=286.


I'm sorry but this is not how it works. Base ns value does not mean you can actually run it there without yeeting the volts
3200 mhz * 130 / 2000=208.

Find me a system that can run 3200 XMP at 208 tRFC at 1.35v and I'll sell you some land in Florida. The lowest I've seen people run at is 240 at 3200 1.35v.
trfc is proportional to voltage. You should have said that it requires volts. 208 trfc might work at 1.5v at 3200 mt/s. It will absolutely not work at 1.35v.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> I'm sorry but this is not how it works. Base ns value does not mean you can actually run it there without yeeting the volts
> 3200 mhz * 130 / 2000=208.
> 
> Find me a system that can run 3200 XMP at 208 tRFC at 1.35v and I'll sell you some land in Florida. The lowest I've seen people run at is 240 at 3200 1.35v.
> trfc is proportional to voltage. You should have said that it requires volts. 208 trfc might work at 1.5v at 3200 mt/s. It will absolutely not work at 1.35v.


Yes, it just for ref. Finally you need to test the stability. At least I know 280 @4700MHz is doable.


----------



## Nizzen

KedarWolf said:


> I've posted a few times how to properly get custom RTL's and IOL's to work, but I'm tired of saying how, then peeps say they can't get it to work a week later.


You never posted it 


For 4600mhz/4700/4800 on z390 and z490 apex the "rule" of RTL and IOL is pretty much this;
iol @ 7 and RTL @ 62/63 (depends on what auto is) 

Substract 7 from the autovalue of RTL= the right thight RTL

This works for most people with Apex.


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yes, it just for ref. Finally you need to test the stability. At least I know 280 @4700MHz is doable.


That's a bit tight. Isn't that 120 ns?


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> DR bdie can usually do 130ns of tRFC. You can do 130*SPEEP MHz/2000 to calculate the tRFC value. For 4400 it would be exactly tRFC=286.


My sticks error in HCI with tRFC 340, but are good at 350 - at 4400 16-17-17 (TridentZ F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB) and 1.54 VDIMM. Could IMC play a role here?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> That's a bit tight. Isn't that 120 ns?


Yes, super tight, under 1.65V, and passed 300% MT7.0. Probably another lottery winner.🥴


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> My sticks error in HCI with tRFC 340, but are good at 350 - at 4400 16-17-17 (TridentZ F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB) and 1.54 VDIMM. Could IMC play a role here?


Seems your sticks cant handle the tRFC well. tRFC is mostly based on the quality of sticks.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Seems your sticks cant handle the tRFC well. tRFC is mostly based on the quality of sticks.


I see. Lucky me then... I hope I have more luck with the 10900KF that is on it's way to me.


----------



## garyd9

KedarWolf said:


> How I used to manually set my RTL's and IOL's etc. low on my Z390 is I'd set all my timings as I'm used to with IOL's and TRL's on Auto, reboot, change RAM speed to something like 2666 with IOL's and RTL's on Auto, reboot, see what they are at on Auto, then manually set them to that, they'll be low, reset my RAM speed to 4200MHZ or whatever I usually run it at, reboot, then the manual settings would work.
> 
> Seems there is some fixed formula to how they need to be set or won't boot. If 2666 don't work try 3200 or 3600 IOL's etc, a RAM speed on the divider you use.


I'm not sure if that's entirely true. I've literally copied the auto RTL values that my m/b trains to (and boots fine with), and once I've typed seemingly anything into the RTL or IO-L boxes, I won't boot.

I've also tried to use the IO-L offsets - if I put anything other than "auto" in the boxes, no boot.

At this point, I think I should just be happy with whatever the m/b trains to, which is always 61/62 RTL and 8/7 IO-L (at 4000Mhz)


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You may check the vid of 5.3GHz under AVX load (eg R20 or AIDA FPU only). Under 1.4V should mean a golden chip.


Then this has to be the worst 10900KF in existence. 1.4783v VID for 5.3 AVX AIDA FPU. Then again, It does actually run that FPU test stable at 5.3 with 1.354v on Auto voltages. Barely hits 88c on that voltage as well. Not even with liquid metal paste or full fanspeed. Just PK-3 and Auto fans.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> Then this has to be the worst 10900KF in existence. 1.4783v VID for 5.3


What is the v/f point for 5.1 Ghz on your chip?


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> What is the v/f point for 5.1 Ghz on your chip?


I'll test in a sec. Trying to get 5.2 to run Prime95 small AVX FMA3 to get an idea how this CPU behaves temp wise and to set up LLC.


----------



## nilssohn

garyd9 said:


> At this point, I think I should just be happy with whatever the m/b trains to, which is always 61/62 RTL and 8/7 IO-L (at 4000Mhz)


Yes, that's fine if your board does like it. Tried RoundTrip= Enabled?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> Then this has to be the worst 10900KF in existence. 1.4783v VID for 5.3 AVX AIDA FPU. Then again, It does actually run that FPU test stable at 5.3 with 1.354v on Auto voltages. Barely hits 88c on that voltage as well. Not even with liquid metal paste or full fanspeed. Just PK-3 and Auto fans.


Then it might be around SP 65~70. Might just sell it on ebay as a default processor and buy a new one


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Then it might be around SP 65~70. Might just sell it on ebay as a default processor and buy a new one


It needs about 1.356v for 5.2 all core AVX. I can run and test it but it thermal locks the system as protection (i got overtemp protect on for when my pump dies) as it does hit 100c after 10-15 minutes.

Stepping down to 5.1 now and going to check how high this will boot memory.

EDIT: LOL. It booted right up at 4600 18-19-19-45-500-2T as a quick test...
I just randomly slapped in some numbers, 1.60v DRAM, 1.45v SA, 1.40v IO, 4600 18-19-19-45-500-2T with Auto sub timings and Auto RTL/IO and even those aligned just fine. It didn't even hesitate, just went straight to Windows.

Let's see if it's stable enough for a AIDA run...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> It needs about 1.356v for 5.2 all core AVX. I can run and test it but it thermal locks the system as protection (i got overtemp protect on for when my pump dies) as it does hit 100c after 10-15 minutes.
> 
> Stepping down to 5.1 now and going to check how high this will boot memory.
> 
> EDIT: LOL. It booted right up at 4600 18-19-19-45-500-2T as a quick test...
> I just randomly slapped in some numbers, 1.60v DRAM, 1.45v SA, 1.40v IO, 4600 18-19-19-45-500-2T with Auto sub timings and Auto RTL/IO and even those aligned just fine. It didn't even hesitate, just went straight to Windows.
> 
> Let's see if it's stable enough for a AIDA run...
> 
> View attachment 2460374


The MSI default is VCC sense... Don't try to run any VCore higher than 1.4V, which might potentially burn your chip.
SP 70 chips should do 5.2 all core @1.32V llc mode 4 VCC sense.

Wait... 1.354V VCC sense 5.3 all core AIDA FPU? Then it should be the "special edition SP63 chip".

MSI is very good at ram OC. Good rigs can even do RDRD and WRWR sg-dg at 5-4.

Newest BIOS can be found here:





Z490 Test - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The MSI default is VCC sense... Don't try to run any VCore higher than 1.4V, which might potentially burn your chip.
> SP 70 chips should do 5.2 all core @1.32V llc mode 4 VCC sense.
> 
> MSI is very good at ram OC. Good rigs can even do RDRD and WRWR sg-dg at 5-4.
> 
> Newest BIOS can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z490 Test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Well, the core OC on this one is terrible. 5.1 all core @ 1.248v is a no go. System_service_exception at like, 6 minutes into small FFT. Moving up to 1.270v now. I'm at about 79-84c temp spread core wise now. 

Oh and should i be using LLC4? I've been using 5 the entire time, on Z390 as well. I like that it always has some droop so when stress testing stable it will always be slightly above that testes voltage so will bever bevond unstable.

But, how much SA/IO can i slap through this bad boy? I don't mind being in the gray zone, i like to clock to the utter edge so what would be on the edge? 1.5v? 

And how does cache behave on these? I know 9900K liked core multi -3 for cache. What can i do with these?


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> It needs about 1.356v for 5.2 all core AVX. I can run and test it but it thermal locks the system as protection (i got overtemp protect on for when my pump dies) as it does hit 100c after 10-15 minutes.
> 
> Stepping down to 5.1 now and going to check how high this will boot memory.
> 
> EDIT: LOL. It booted right up at 4600 18-19-19-45-500-2T as a quick test...
> I just randomly slapped in some numbers, 1.60v DRAM, 1.45v SA, 1.40v IO, 4600 18-19-19-45-500-2T with Auto sub timings and Auto RTL/IO and even those aligned just fine. It didn't even hesitate, just went straight to Windows.
> 
> Let's see if it's stable enough for a AIDA run...
> 
> View attachment 2460374





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The MSI default is VCC sense... Don't try to run any VCore higher than 1.4V, which might potentially burn your chip.
> SP 70 chips should do 5.2 all core @1.32V llc mode 4 VCC sense.
> 
> MSI is very good at ram OC. Good rigs can even do RDRD and WRWR sg-dg at 5-4.
> 
> Newest BIOS can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z490 Test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


MSI Vcc_sense is the same as Gigabyte's ITE 8792E vcore reading. It's lower than what the Super I/O would tell you (Socket sense) but it's not accurate (it will give you a flat vdroop at Mode 3 which is utterly wrong, as Mode 3 is about 0.275 mOhms of LLC)

Toppc Lin said he's working on getting Die sense readings from VRM appearing in hwinfo64, but he needs time. He just finished working on getting 1T working on the Unify boards.

Your "5.1 ghz 1.248v fail" isn't 1.248v. Don't think too much into it without die sense readings. Is that what you set in BIOS or what is reported at load?
Because if that's at load and you were messing around with FMA3 small FFT prime95 (how are you going to cool 255 + amps? I already know it's probably at least at 260 amps at that setting), if it read 1.248v load, the real vcore is probably around 1.20v or lower. Which in your case wouldn't make that chip as bad as you think it is.

Here, I'll tell you how to tell if your chip is decent or not.
Set your chip to 5.3 ghz, 4.7 ring, 1.390v Bios set voltage + Mode 3 loadline calibration.

Run Realbench 2.56 stress test for 1 hour, record your temps.
If you do NOT get any cpu cache L0 errors in hwinfo64, keep the chip. It's decent.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> MSI Vcc_sense is the same as Gigabyte's ITE 8792E vcore reading. It's lower than what the Super I/O would tell you (Socket sense) but it's not accurate (it will give you a flat vdroop at Mode 3 which is utterly wrong, as Mode 3 is about 0.275 mOhms of LLC)
> 
> Toppc Lin said he's working on getting Die sense readings from VRM appearing in hwinfo64, but he needs time. He just finished working on getting 1T working on the Unify boards.


They just connected the Vcc pin directly to the super IO that's why they have 2 sets of volt system for the bios. MSI LLC is kind of confusion, for socket sense and vcc sense MSI used different levels. They are trying to unify the llc systems for both vcc sense and socket sense.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> Well, the core OC on this one is terrible. 5.1 all core @ 1.248v is a no go. System_service_exception at like, 6 minutes into small FFT. Moving up to 1.270v now. I'm at about 79-84c temp spread core wise now.
> 
> Oh and should i be using LLC4? I've been using 5 the entire time, on Z390 as well. I like that it always has some droop so when stress testing stable it will always be slightly above that testes voltage so will bever bevond unstable.
> 
> But, how much SA/IO can i slap through this bad boy? I don't mind being in the gray zone, i like to clock to the utter edge so what would be on the edge? 1.5v?
> 
> And how does cache behave on these? I know 9900K liked core multi -3 for cache. What can i do with these?


MSI VCC sense is about 0.02V higher than ASUS die sense so it might need some more volt. 5.3 all core @1.354V VCC sense is already a good oc.


----------



## robertr1

Daily 1.54 dram. 1.275 vccio and 1.30 sa. 

Moved from 16/4200 1T. BW went up and latency came down. Not really much of a bump in games that I can see outside of error variance but why not? Will try for 4500+ down the road.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The MSI default is VCC sense... Don't try to run any VCore higher than 1.4V, which might potentially burn your chip.
> SP 70 chips should do 5.2 all core @1.32V llc mode 4 VCC sense.
> 
> Wait... 1.354V VCC sense 5.3 all core AIDA FPU? Then it should be the "special edition SP63 chip".
> 
> MSI is very good at ram OC. Good rigs can even do RDRD and WRWR sg-dg at 5-4.
> 
> Newest BIOS can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z490 Test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


1.4 Mode 4/3 is very safe on an msi board. Where are you getting this info from...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> 1.4 Mode 4/3 is very safe on an msi board. Where are you getting this info from...


1.4V vcc sense would be far beyond the 360AIO capability. 1.32V vcc sense would hit the limit of the old H150i pro. 1.4V Socket sense is fine tho. If you are using Z390, its socket sense.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 1.4V vcc sense would be far beyond the 360AIO capability. 1.32V vcc sense would hit the limit of the old H150i pro. 1.4V Socket sense is fine tho. If you are using Z390, its socket sense.


So tell me why i can happily cool 1.4 + mode 4 on a 10700k and 360mm aio. Reports almost no droop in hwinfo but temps on small no avx are low 70s.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> So tell me why i can happily cool 1.4 + mode 4 on a 10700k and 360mm aio. Reports almost no droop in hwinfo but temps on small no avx are low 70s.


I was talking about his 10900K. I haven't tried to stress a 10700K yet. You need to check the volt sense system in your bios. If that is socket sense it should be fine. For vcc sense, 1.4V would be around 1.5V on the socket.


----------



## Imprezzion

Aight, 5.1 core with 4.3 cache seems to do fine in Prime95 28.9 AVX FMA3 Small FFT. VCC Sense 1.288v LLC5 seems to do fine. About 333w of power draw (258 Amps) and my cooling can just about handle it. Hottest core peaked at 89c. 

And i'm testing with AVX. Non AVX barely hits 75c here as well even on 1.320v.

I will try falkens suggested test even tho i'm pretty sure 1.390v LLC3 will just shoot me to 100c..


----------



## YaqY

So care to explain why mode 1-4 VCC Sense report no droop in monitoring software. 1.4 VCC Sense is not 1.5 Socket...


----------



## garyd9

nilssohn said:


> Yes, that's fine if your board does like it. Tried RoundTrip= Enabled?


yeah, it actually made the trained RTL/IO-L values go nuts. Keep in mind I'm using a 10850k, so the IMC is likely crap.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> So care to explain why mode 1-4 VCC Sense report no droop in monitoring software. 1.4 VCC Sense is not 1.5 Socket...


In the VCC sense system, mode 3 was adjusted to keep the VCC sense value constant, so to increase the socket volt. You can connect a meter to the caps to see how volt changes under avx load.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> In the VCC sense system, mode 3 was adjusted to keep the VCC sense value constant, so to increase the socket volt. You can connect a meter to the caps to see how volt changes under avx load.


Can you explain how 1.4 mode 4 is unsafe on Z490 msi? This reported vcc sense voltage is reported higher under load than a die sense reading .


----------



## Imprezzion

I would still love to know how far I can sort of safely go on VCCSA/IO. And how high I can push cache frequency.

I am running Falkens test now. 5.3/4.7 1.390v fixed LLC3 in real bench 2.56. Few minutes in now, 1.392-1.394v VCC Sense and temps around 86-87c. Fans not fully spun up yet.

LLC3 shows very little drop and very stable VCC Sense. Idle is 1.390v and load 1.394 ish so.

EDIT: It crashed at 13 minutes in lol. Hard freeze.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> I would still love to know how far I can sort of safely go on VCCSA/IO. And how high I can push cache frequency.
> 
> I am running Falkens test now. 5.3/4.7 1.390v fixed LLC3 in real bench 2.56. Few minutes in now, 1.392-1.394v VCC Sense and temps around 86-87c. Fans not fully spun up yet.
> 
> LLC3 shows very little drop and very stable VCC Sense. Idle is 1.390v and load 1.394 ish so.
> 
> EDIT: It crashed at 13 minutes in lol. Hard freeze.


For daily 1.4 Sa and 1.35 IO is fine.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I would still love to know how far I can sort of safely go on VCCSA/IO. And how high I can push cache frequency.
> 
> I am running Falkens test now. 5.3/4.7 1.390v fixed LLC3 in real bench 2.56. Few minutes in now, 1.392-1.394v VCC Sense and temps around 86-87c. Fans not fully spun up yet.


Should be a very good cooling system. IO&SA can be very high for 10 gen, but don't exceed 1.65V at the same time. WR only needs 1.6V IO and 1.65V SA.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Should be a very good cooling system. IO&SA can be very high for 10 gen, but don't exceed 1.65V at the same time. WR only needs 1.6V IO and 1.65V SA.


OR maybe the fact that he's not running 1.39 die sense?


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> MSI VCC sense is about 0.02V higher than ASUS die sense so it might need some more volt. 5.3 all core @1.354V VCC sense is already a good oc.


This is not true at all.
And this depends purely on the resistance between the MLCC and the reporting location.
Probinator probes directly on the CPU socket are about 20mv higher than the actual die sense (that's why buildzoid saw a 2mv vrise at full load when he used LLC8, but otherwise it's a flat vdroop besides the impedance).

I just took a screenshot from my Z490 Master to prove it. In fact I was too optimistic on the vdroop--the delta between MLCC and die sense is even higher.
I set 5 ghz, 1.30v Bios set, LLC Turbo (0.27 mOhms).
the top vcore is the Super I/O (aka socket sense on MSI), ITE 8688E on GB.
the second vcore is the Socket MLCC reading (this is VCC_Sense on MSI), ITE 8792E on GB.
die sense is VR VOUT.
You can see there is a 60mv difference between VCC_sense and true vcore.

So @*Imprezzion shoudln't write off his chip yet.*

Please run 5.3 ghz, 4.7 cache, set your bios volt to 1.390v, Mode 3 LLC, run RB 2.56 for 1 hour stress test, look for L0 errors in Hwinfo64. Report back.


----------



## Imprezzion

Falkentyne said:


> This is not true at all.
> And this depends purely on the resistance between the MLCC and the reporting location.
> Probinator probes directly on the CPU socket are about 20mv higher than the actual die sense (that's why buildzoid saw a 2mv vrise at full load when he used LLC8, but otherwise it's a flat vdroop besides the impedance).
> 
> I just took a screenshot from my Z490 Master to prove it. In fact I was too optimistic on the vdroop--the delta between MLCC and die sense is even higher.
> I set 5 ghz, 1.30v Bios set, LLC Turbo (0.27 mOhms).
> the top vcore is the Super I/O (aka socket sense on MSI), ITE 8688E on GB.
> the second vcore is the Socket MLCC reading (this is VCC_Sense on MSI), ITE 8792E on GB.
> die sense is VR VOUT.
> You can see there is a 60mv difference between VCC_sense and true vcore.
> 
> So @*Imprezzion shoudln't write off his chip yet.*
> 
> Please run 5.3 ghz, 4.7 cache, set your bios volt to 1.390v, Mode 3 LLC, run RB 2.56 for 1 hour stress test, look for L0 errors in Hwinfo64. Report back.
> 
> View attachment 2460381


Did the test, 13 minutes in it errored in L0 and hard froze after that on those settings.

Mind you, I'm doing this all on a lapped EK Phoenix 280 push pull setup. No exotic blocks, just a 280 rad with QDC fittings, just regular Prolimatech PK-3 paste.. I do have a large amount of Conductonaut laying around but I don't wanna use LM on a CPU I might not keep. 

So far it seems by just bursting Prime95 Small AVX FMA3 for a few minutes every time I can probably get 5.2 all core around 1.34v stable. Problem is temps. At that point Prime pushed 92-94c, real bench about 85-87c. I kinda don't like it there anymore. I think I will settle for whatever this CPU runs at 5.1 and push the memory as hard as I can.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> OR maybe the fact that he's not running 1.39 die sense?


My cooling will directly go hell if 1.39V die sense...My workstation is Z490GL with the old version H150i pro. Set VCC over 1.33V 5.2GHz all core already hits near 96c under R20 load. H150i XT can do 0.03V higher so it also depends on your actual cooling system.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> I would still love to know how far I can sort of safely go on VCCSA/IO. And how high I can push cache frequency.
> 
> I am running Falkens test now. 5.3/4.7 1.390v fixed LLC3 in real bench 2.56. Few minutes in now, 1.392-1.394v VCC Sense and temps around 86-87c. Fans not fully spun up yet.
> 
> LLC3 shows very little drop and very stable VCC Sense. Idle is 1.390v and load 1.394 ish so.
> 
> EDIT: It crashed at 13 minutes in lol. Hard freeze.


Hard freeze? That test should never hard lock. Only BSOD or WHEA.

Please increase TCC (TJMax / Overtemperature protection) to 105C to compensate for any random spikes.
Also bump vcore up by 10mv to 1.400v Bios set. Don't go higher than this. I would also not use this for a daily, even if stable.
I don't understand the 1.520v VID + 200mv thing, since Intel's auto volts likes to give SP63 chips 1.50v LOAD voltage at 1.1 mOhms LLC at 5.2 ghz (e.g. Standard LLC on GB, Level 3 on Asus, Mode 7 on GB),
which happens because VID before vdroop (I'll say it again, BEFORE VDROOP) can go up to 1.720v

If you want to go by the old 1.520v thingy, I wouldn't feel safe drawing more than 200 amps at 1.30v die-sense load voltage
(which would be about estimated 1.375v bios set Mode 3 LLC in RB 2.56 at 5.3 ghz).

If you're unhappy with the 5.3 ghz wall, try 5.2 ghz, with 1.300v Bios set + Mode 3 LLC and see if you can pass Realbench for 1 hour with that.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> This is not true at all.
> And this depends purely on the resistance between the MLCC and the reporting location.
> Probinator probes directly on the CPU socket are about 20mv higher than the actual die sense (that's why buildzoid saw a 2mv vrise at full load when he used LLC8, but otherwise it's a flat vdroop besides the impedance).
> 
> I just took a screenshot from my Z490 Master to prove it. In fact I was too optimistic on the vdroop--the delta between MLCC and die sense is even higher.
> I set 5 ghz, 1.30v Bios set, LLC Turbo (0.27 mOhms).
> the top vcore is the Super I/O (aka socket sense on MSI), ITE 8688E on GB.
> the second vcore is the Socket MLCC reading (this is VCC_Sense on MSI), ITE 8792E on GB.
> die sense is VR VOUT.
> You can see there is a 60mv difference between VCC_sense and true vcore.
> 
> So @*Imprezzion shoudln't write off his chip yet.*
> 
> Please run 5.3 ghz, 4.7 cache, set your bios volt to 1.390v, Mode 3 LLC, run RB 2.56 for 1 hour stress test, look for L0 errors in Hwinfo64. Report back.
> 
> View attachment 2460381


Super IO readings can be confusion. Check this 5:26:


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> My cooling will directly go hell if 1.39V die sense...My workstation is Z490GL with the old version H150i pro. Set VCC over 1.33V 5.2GHz all core already hits near 96c under R20 load. H150i XT can do 0.03V higher so it also depends on your actual cooling system.


He is running a 280mm aio, this is not cooling a chip at 1.39 die sense or above...


----------



## Imprezzion

This isn't completely comparable to a AIO. It does use a custom EK block and a full-size pump and rad. It does about 4-5c better then a H150i. I have both, and a H115i, and a CM ML360R, and a X62 and some air stuff lol. I have too much stuff.. lol.

Doing 1.40v now with 105c temp limit and TVB protections disabled. Should I raise VRM switching freq as well? MOSFETs are nice and cool on this board unlike my Z390 Ace which hit 90c regularly. This barely hits 60.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> He is running a 280mm aio, this is not cooling a chip at 1.39 die sense or above...


So should make sure the BIOS volt system and the actual cooling condition. Anyway you need to make sure your system is stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, real bench just randomly BSOD with driver_overran_stack_buffer error mid run. Not sure if stability related tho.. it was doing fine on 1.40v LLC3 so far. Bit hot, 87-89c, but seemed fine.

Oh and not that it matters probably, but this is a KF not a K btw.

I will just settle for 5.1/4.8 @ 1.290v for now as I know it will do that stable enough to test other stuff. 

4600Mhz memory here we come.


----------



## Coach2Morrow

Question.. I have a 32GB set of ram. Can I remove two sticks, down to 16 and change to 1T? And potentially OC more? Noob question I know. It's a matching set but I heard somewhere I could do that. I was tempted to buy a 16 GB set but was curious as to whether this claim worked or not. 32GB is overkill for gaming so I wouldn't be against trying it


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Coach2Morrow said:


> Question.. I have a 32GB set of ram. Can I remove two sticks, down to 16 and change to 1T? And potentially OC more? Noob question I know.


If you are on Z490. Remove 2, install the other 2 on A2 and B2.
For z390 asus and gigabyte, install 4 can oc better.


----------



## Imprezzion

K so, i settled here for now.
5.1Ghz all core AVX0, 5Ghz cache (it seems to LOVE cache), 1.290v overwrite (I use high performance powerplan anyway, might as well set a static voltage) with LLC3.
I did pre-set 1.45v SA 1.40v IO on this run just to see what temps would be with memory cranked to the max. Memory was at 3200C16 base in this run.

Did a 30 minute Prime95 28.9 Small FFT AVX FMA3 enabled. See screenshot. Temps seem to be well under control and no WHEA errors or other wierdness. 

Now off to tweak memory.


----------



## Coach2Morrow

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If you are on Z490. Remove 2, install the other 2 on A2 and B2.
> For z390 asus and gigabyte, install 4 can oc better.


I'm using a MEG ACE Z390 board. I really haven't had any lucky pushing my memory though. Got my timings down some but nothing on frequency. F4-3600C16-8GTZKK. Currently at 3600-15-15-15-32-300 at 1.45v


----------



## SoldierRBT

Is the G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Model F4-3600C16D-32GTZN (AMD) compatible with APEX Z490/10900K?


----------



## garyd9

SoldierRBT said:


> Is the G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Model F4-3600C16D-32GTZN (AMD) compatible with APEX Z490/10900K?


yes. Check the QVL on G.Skill's website: F4-3600C16D-32GTZN-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


----------



## garyd9

I'm an idiot sometimes... 

I've been going nuts trying to figure out why I was only seeing, at best, 50GB/sec read/write/copy bandwidth and always a >50ns latency in aida64 (4000-CL16-16-16-36.) I should be seeing much better numbers with as tight as I have the timings.

To make a long story short, the reason has been because I leave VT (and VT-d) enabled and have Hyper-V installed. Turning off just VT-d gives me 55-56GB/sec on read/write/copy and 44.9 latency. Completely turning off VT puts me over 95% of theoretical max bandwidth (>61GB read/write/copy) with 39.8ns latency.

I had forgotten that if Hyper-V is enabled in the BIOS and in Windows 10, that even the host OS runs inside the virtualization layer. (reference: Introduction to Hyper-V on Windows 10, scroll down to "Limitations") Considering that aspect, getting 50GB/sec RAM bandwidth and 50ns latency inside the virtualization layer is actually pretty impressive.


----------



## Arctucas

Coach2Morrow said:


> I'm using a MEG ACE Z390 board. I really haven't had any lucky pushing my memory though. Got my timings down some but nothing on frequency. F4-3600C16-8GTZKK. Currently at 3600-15-15-15-32-300 at 1.45v


I was trying to find a listing for that kit.

Is there another letter after the 16?

That is the part number on one stick of a two or four stick kit?


----------



## Coach2Morrow

Arctucas said:


> I was trying to find a listing for that kit.
> 
> Is there another letter after the 16?
> 
> That is the part number on one stick of a two or four stick kit?


It's a 4 stick kit


----------



## Imprezzion

Coach2Morrow said:


> I'm using a MEG ACE Z390 board. I really haven't had any lucky pushing my memory though. Got my timings down some but nothing on frequency. F4-3600C16-8GTZKK. Currently at 3600-15-15-15-32-300 at 1.45v


Z390 Ace with 4 SR sticks should be able to do 4200ish with a good enough CPU and enough IO/SA voltage. 

Try this.

4200 17-19-19-39-400-2T, keep Enhanced RTL/IO enabled, tertiary disabled.

Use 1.50v DRAM with 1.35v SA 1.30v IO. It's pretty loose and high on the voltages but it will show you whether you can run 4200 or not at all. This is just for a test to see if it will run it at all.

I've been pretty stuck on my Z490 Ace + 10900KF + 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die's. 

They clock extremely well, like, 4600C17 boots fine, but I'm having a hard time actually stabilizing anything. Most of the runs I try end up with errors in HCI after like, a full 100% coverage run. TM5 is even worse, most I've made there is 12 minutes on anta777 extreme.

I gotta find that sweet spot for timings and frequency lol. I think I'm being too greedy and want 4400C16 / 4600 C17 to work too badly. I should start a bit lower I guess at like, 4266C16 and see what I get done there..

I wonder if it's temp related. At 1.59v they do get up to 44-45c even with my dedicated RAM fan.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> I wonder if it's temp related. At 1.59v they do get up to 44-45c even with my dedicated RAM fan.


One of my 16GB sticks tops out at 47C under load and that is fine... So I think something else is the cause of your problems.


----------



## Arctucas

Coach2Morrow said:


> It's a 4 stick kit


Thanks. 4 x 8 GB correct? 'KK' suffix designates black heatspreaders, I believe?

I asked because I have a F4-3600C16D-GTZ kit (2 x 8 GB) that I was able to clock to 4500MHz. EVGA Z390 DARK Performance Results - UserBenchmark.


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> One of my 16GB sticks tops out at 47C under load and that is fine... So I think something else is the cause of your problems.


Yeah probably lol.

Btw I copied your 4400 C16 settings from on of your previous posts and going to try that in TM5 Anta extreme.

I forgot one thing tho.. for RTL/IO training.. was 2 apart still good training or is that bad training already. They seem to always wanna train at 9/9/7/7 no matter what initials I set..

I do have a baseline now that passed 1:30 hours of TM5 Anta Extreme with no errors at 4200-16-17-17-35-340-2T with 1.56v DRAM, 1.40v SA 1.35v IO. 44.6c max DIMM temps.

EDIT: This seems to work fine. Problem is, the tRDWR's won't equalize. They are set to 11-11-11-11 but somehow they go to 12-10-11-12 for some reason.. It's stable but still..


----------



## TheBoom

Not sure why but if I switch RTL from auto to enabled my board goes nuts with the RTL and IO timings.

More than 2-3 clocks apart and the ranks between each stick don’t even match as well.

Also can someone tell me if Turn Around Timing should be left disabled or enabled?


----------



## garyd9

TheBoom said:


> Not sure why but if I switch RTL from auto to enabled my board goes nuts with the RTL and IO timings.
> 
> More than 2-3 clocks apart and the ranks between each stick don’t even match as well.
> 
> Also can someone tell me if Turn Around Timing should be left disabled or enabled?


I can't tell you if it should be enabled or not, but I can tell you that I have had the same experience as you in regards to that setting. I'm using an Asus M12 Hero board with 2x16 kit.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah probably lol.
> 
> Btw I copied your 4400 C16 settings from on of your previous posts and going to try that in TM5 Anta extreme.
> 
> I forgot one thing tho.. for RTL/IO training.. was 2 apart still good training or is that bad training already. They seem to always wanna train at 9/9/7/7 no matter what initials I set..
> 
> I do have a baseline now that passed 1:30 hours of TM5 Anta Extreme with no errors at 4200-16-17-17-35-340-2T with 1.56v DRAM, 1.40v SA 1.35v IO. 44.6c max DIMM temps.
> 
> EDIT: This seems to work fine. Problem is, the tRDWR's won't equalize. They are set to 11-11-11-11 but somehow they go to 12-10-11-12 for some reason.. It's stable but still..
> 
> View attachment 2460441


I will send You my config later.
Got really tight secondaries running 4400 c18 18 18 [email protected] 1,45v 1,3Sa 1,3io with 7/7/7/7 trained on z490 ace with 10900k
4600 needs way too much voltage to get stable and is only really doable under water.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> I will send You my config later.
> Got really tight secondaries running 4400 c18 18 18 [email protected] 1,45v 1,3Sa 1,3io with 7/7/7/7 trained on z490 ace with 10900k
> 4600 needs way too much voltage to get stable and is only really doable under water.


I would love that! I mean, these DIMM's have some potential booting 4600C17 on 1.60v pretty easily and even run sort of stable but whenever I go above 4200 i'm fighting a lot of random errors like, 20-30 minutes into TM5 which should be the hardest part of the test.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> I would love that! I mean, these DIMM's have some potential booting 4600C17 on 1.60v pretty easily and even run sort of stable but whenever I go above 4200 i'm fighting a lot of random errors like, 20-30 minutes into TM5 which should be the hardest part of the test.


I can Boot 4600c17 with 1,49v but i cant be arsed to test for weeks again just to get 4600.
4400 to 4600 is not noticable in games.


----------



## ducegt

When using Round Trip Training and RTLs on auto, I saw crazy values as well until I increased the offsets and then they aligned good. 

This rig is going to it's owner next week so these are the finals settings. Using everything the same as before (1.415v VDIMM, 1.38 IO, 1.41 SA), but Enable Round Trip Training (thanks again @SunnyStefan) and used increased offset values as opposed to lowering with them Round Trip Training disabled. The result is my IOLs went from 13-14 to 2-3 though in the BIOS where it shows both ranks, it's actually IOL 2-3 for channel A and 3-3 for B. Default txp and PPD values.

These sticks are not cooled well, but I was able to boot 4500CL17 with less than 1.5 VDIMM, but got lots of errors. 4500CL18 gave an error or two every hour and I didn't bother trying higher IO and SA.


----------



## The Pook

anyone play with RAM OCing on an Intel system that was just using the IGP? wasn't expecting a _ton_ of extra performance (and it's just for a NAS, the performance of the IGP is irrelevant) but I excepted more than 9%...

Intel HD 630 on a G5500:
2133 CL 15 2T, auto subs/tertiaries = Firestrike score of 1091
3600 CL 16 1T, manual subs/tertiaries = Firestrike score of 1192

I'm still dialing in this kit and it can go tighter but still pretty weak


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> Z390 Ace with 4 SR sticks should be able to do 4200ish with a good enough CPU and enough IO/SA voltage.
> 
> Try this.
> 
> 4200 17-19-19-39-400-2T, keep Enhanced RTL/IO enabled, tertiary disabled.
> 
> Use 1.50v DRAM with 1.35v SA 1.30v IO. It's pretty loose and high on the voltages but it will show you whether you can run 4200 or not at all. This is just for a test to see if it will run it at all.
> 
> I've been pretty stuck on my Z490 Ace + 10900KF + 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die's.
> 
> They clock extremely well, like, 4600C17 boots fine, but I'm having a hard time actually stabilizing anything. Most of the runs I try end up with errors in HCI after like, a full 100% coverage run. TM5 is even worse, most I've made there is 12 minutes on anta777 extreme.
> 
> I gotta find that sweet spot for timings and frequency lol. I think I'm being too greedy and want 4400C16 / 4600 C17 to work too badly. I should start a bit lower I guess at like, 4266C16 and see what I get done there..
> 
> I wonder if it's temp related. At 1.59v they do get up to 44-45c even with my dedicated RAM fan.


Remember I told you some time back those were good sticks?
You just needed something better than that Z390.

4600 C17 is up there for dual rank. The chips need to be binned very well, the motherboard quality needs to be high (and two completely identical boards can have different quality, its all in the purity of the contacts, smd's, traces, a lot of things), and the IMC needs to not hate you. Going to be a hard ask.

Did you try 17/18/18 instead of flat 17's?. You might need to yeet the VCCSA also.

And mess with the skews.
wr, park, nom of 80/40/40 worked for me but experiment with stuff like 80/48/40, 120/40/40, and so on.
Keep in mind that one value might pass TM5 for an hour then one change could fail in 5 minutes or even fail to load windows.
and your MSI should have DLL Bandwidth or DLLBwen. Try setting that to 0.


----------



## TheBoom

Doesn’t align properly on mine even on highest offset values that post. Guess I’ll be doing the reverse method instead and see if it works.

This chip’s IMC is so bad though. Needs above 1.35v IO and SA (1.35 vcore socket sense under load) just for 4000 CL16, temps hitting 107c in linpack 4gb.


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> temps hitting 107c in linpack


So not stable...


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> So not stable...


Do you mean it’s not stable because it’s running too hot or? Don’t quite get what you’re implying.

Even with my old kit of 3200 cl15 I was hitting excess of 100c and it was completely stable. 9/10 residuals matched with no WHEA errors.


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> Do you mean it’s not stable because it’s running too hot or?


Show us a screenshot of HWiNFO64 and your stresstest. My advice : keep load temps under max 95C.


----------



## Imprezzion

Falkentyne said:


> Remember I told you some time back those were good sticks?
> You just needed something better than that Z390.
> 
> 4600 C17 is up there for dual rank. The chips need to be binned very well, the motherboard quality needs to be high (and two completely identical boards can have different quality, its all in the purity of the contacts, smd's, traces, a lot of things), and the IMC needs to not hate you. Going to be a hard ask.
> 
> Did you try 17/18/18 instead of flat 17's?. You might need to yeet the VCCSA also.
> 
> And mess with the skews.
> wr, park, nom of 80/40/40 worked for me but experiment with stuff like 80/48/40, 120/40/40, and so on.
> Keep in mind that one value might pass TM5 for an hour then one change could fail in 5 minutes or even fail to load windows.
> and your MSI should have DLL Bandwidth or DLLBwen. Try setting that to 0.


Haha happy I made this upgrade. It actually made sense performance wise as well. GPU got a nice boost from the better CPU and RAM. Much better frametimes and 1% lows.

But yeah, it has all those things. I set up 1,6v DRAM, 1.5v SA, 1.35v IO @ 4600-17-18-18-39-440-2T with 80/40/40 and DLL Bandwidth 0 and the rest Auto for now. Booted right to windows. Super loose RTL/IO tho. Like 71/14 lol. 

I'll lower the voltages later on I just wanna be sure I have enough to run a TM5 test for an hour or so and see where I'm at. It'll survive an hour on those voltages. I hope. Hehe.

EDIT: 7 minutes in TM5 it errored twice. Going for a different wr, park, nom and such..

Nah it doesn't like 4600 at all. Even on 19-21-21-44-500 it isn't happy at all lol. It boots pretty much anything I throw at it (yes 4800 boots) but it's very unstable above 4500 so far. I'm testing 4500 C17 now.


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> Show us a screenshot of HWiNFO64 and your stresstest. My advice : keep load temps under max 95C.


Do you mean stress test load or real world usage load? Real world usage (games and etc) is below 85c.

There’s no way I can keep the temps below 95c in linpack. It’s a sp51 10700k that needs 1.4v manual llc5 to stay stable and that’s at 3200 CL15.

Edit : 1.4v llc5 for 5.0ghz.


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> Edit : 1.4v llc5 for 5.0ghz.


Sell that CPU ASAP or live with 4.8 Ghz allcore. Hard truth.


----------



## garyd9

TheBoom said:


> Do you mean stress test load or real world usage load? Real world usage (games and etc) is below 85c.
> 
> There’s no way I can keep the temps below 95c in linpack. It’s a sp51 10700k that needs 1.4v manual llc5 to stay stable and that’s at 3200 CL15.
> 
> Edit : 1.4v llc5 for 5.0ghz.


Is that a 10900K!? That's worse than my 10850K... (Although, I'm convinced the IMC on my 10850K can't do anything over 4000Mhz memory.)


----------



## Coach2Morrow

Imprezzion said:


> Z390 Ace with 4 SR sticks should be able to do 4200ish with a good enough CPU and enough IO/SA voltage.
> 
> Try this.
> 
> 4200 17-19-19-39-400-2T, keep Enhanced RTL/IO enabled, tertiary disabled.
> 
> Use 1.50v DRAM with 1.35v SA 1.30v IO. It's pretty loose and high on the voltages but it will show you whether you can run 4200 or not at all. This is just for a test to see if it will run it at all.
> 
> I've been pretty stuck on my Z490 Ace + 10900KF + 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die's.
> 
> They clock extremely well, like, 4600C17 boots fine, but I'm having a hard time actually stabilizing anything. Most of the runs I try end up with errors in HCI after like, a full 100% coverage run. TM5 is even worse, most I've made there is 12 minutes on anta777 extreme.
> 
> I gotta find that sweet spot for timings and frequency lol. I think I'm being too greedy and want 4400C16 / 4600 C17 to work too badly. I should start a bit lower I guess at like, 4266C16 and see what I get done there..
> 
> I wonder if it's temp related. At 1.59v they do get up to 44-45c even with my dedicated RAM fan.


Tried 4200 and it wouldn't boot, 4133 errored at 25%. Going down to 4000 next I suppose 😅


----------



## Coach2Morrow

Also, does any of my CPU voltages have an effect on it? I really didn't learn how to do special CPU OC's so my 9700k is at 4.9ghz at 1.3v. Stable. But I basically just OC the way MSI says to (the easy way). Because I know very little about that stuff


----------



## ducegt

garyd9 said:


> Is that a 10900K!? That's worse than my 10850K... (Although, I'm convinced the IMC on my 10850K can't do anything over 4000Mhz memory.)


If you're using Apex XII 0707 or willing to switch to it, I can send you my BIOS profile for 4400CL18 for you to load. Just PM an email if interested.


----------



## garyd9

ducegt said:


> If you're using Apex XII 0707 or willing to switch to it, I can send you my BIOS profile for 4400CL18 for you to load. Just PM an email if interested.


I really appreciate your offer, but I'm using the maximus 12 hero. 

Anyway, I doubt another person's working BIOS settings would do much good for me. I've gone to the extreme of setting VCCSA to 1.4v, the memory to 4100Mhz @ 1.45v, and putting the timings at 18-20-20-40 (with everything else on auto) and it's still not able to pass even a single test in TM5 (if it even boots.)


----------



## Falkentyne

Decent for a daily.
16/17/37 @ 1.5v @ 4400 mhz


----------



## Imprezzion

Nice work! I have gotten nowhere still lol. 4500 17-18-18 also errored out after 27 minutes with 7 errors in a row. No more room in the voltages to yeet. Was already at 1.45 SA 1.40 IO 1.6v DRAM. 4400 passes but that's slower then 4200 16-17-17 so.

I'll keep tweaking today. Might try lower voltages as well. Maybe they are _too_ high now.


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> Sell that CPU ASAP or live with 4.8 Ghz allcore. Hard truth.


Im probably gonna keep it till rocketlake or pcie4 equivalent. Second hand market for cpus here is horrible. Probably lose $100 or more just to try my luck again at silicon lottery.
If I knew they were gonna come out with a 10850k bin I woulda waited lol. 

I don’t mind peaks of 85c real world usage as long sustained loads stay under 80c which they do for now.


----------



## TheBoom

garyd9 said:


> Is that a 10900K!? That's worse than my 10850K... (Although, I'm convinced the IMC on my 10850K can't do anything over 4000Mhz memory.)


Nope it’s a 10700k. Oddly I can do 4200 just at crazy high imc voltages of 1.45 or higher.

I just got 4000 cl16 stable at 1.4625 dram, 1.37v IO and SA. Vmin under load of 1.35v (socket sense/super IO) at 5.0 core 4.8 cache.


----------



## Imprezzion

Not too bad for the IMC. Shame the core is so bad on that CPU. I mean, my 10900KF is pretty low SP as well (MSI doesn't show SP specifically) but at least I can do 5.1Ghz all core AVX 0 at 1.296v VCC Sense stable in Prime95 28.9 AVX and real bench and such.

I got my memory to cooperate a bit more finally. It really wants CAS+2 for tRCD and tRP. I am now testing with 4133 15-17-17-35-320 and where 15-16-16 errored immediately in TM5 this ran for over 40 minutes no errors. Only thing I noticed during that run is the RTL/IO was misaligned by a country mile and it wasn't easy to get them to align.. they kept going like, 60/60/61/62/6/6/7/7 so 1 single RTL kept misaligning. I got them to do 60/60/61/61/4/4/3/4 now with a weird initial setup (63/63/1/1 with 25 offset) but hey, if it works.. running the TM5 test again to see if this proves stable.


----------



## Salve1412

1000%+ HCI MemTest Pro 7.0 (~8 hours of testing) with F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB.


----------



## Imprezzion

More weirdness.. I got close to 4600C18 stable, had 1 single error in a 60 minute TM5 pass, put some extra juice on IO/SA, got 15 errors. Put even more juice on it, 39 errors. 

This CPU really hates IO/SA higher then 1.35v ish. It gets ridiculously unstable at like, 1.40 IO 1.45 SA. I now have a test running with 1.25 IO 1.35 SA and it already went without errors longer then it did with 1.5v SA 1.4v IO.. 

I thought 10xxx CPU's needed a ton of SA and could handle that as well but seems like the opposite for this one. Still, it runs 4600 with 1.35 SA and 1.25 IO. That is kinda.. special? I guess? 

Probably not stable as the RAM might not like this at all but we shall see. At least it passed the first 5 minutes of TM5 without spitting 20+ errors straight away lol.


----------



## Betroz

Salve1412 said:


> 1000%+ HCI MemTest Pro 7.0 (~8 hours of testing) with F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB.


Now fire up some Prime95 custom 112k in-place fft, AVX disabled to see if you can really run IO and SA that low...


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> Probably not stable as the RAM might not like this at all but we shall see. At least it passed the first 5 minutes of TM5 without spitting 20+ errors straight away lol.


There is one or more settings wrong or you are pushing it to far. What it is, I don't know.


----------



## TheBoom

Yep this the first time I lost the cpu lottery that hard 

I can’t get my 16gb sticks to pass any longer than 700% (5 hours) memtest but they passed TM5 extreme.

Guessing its most likely trfc with these rev e sticks but I’m happy with 500% memtest.

Also tested worst case ambient temps and the sticks were stable at 72.5c, that’s something.


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> There is one or more settings wrong or you are pushing it to far. What it is, I don't know.


I'm trying to find the max frequency these DIMMs will take but it's annoying that SA, IO, cache freq, and all that stuff seems to not wanna cooperate with logic.

I know 4600 is quite ambitious but not impossible. 

I might just raise the RAM fan rpm a bit as well. Sticks aren't hot, 42-45c, but still. Wanna see if it makes a difference. I did get 1 single error again on 4600C18 1.6v RAM 1.35v SA 1.25v IO. Not too bad.

EDIT: It held 4200 15-17-17-39-450 for a full hour on TM5 Extreme @ 1.60v DRAM, 1.35v SA 1.25v IO. So, I can get away with C15 on 4200 just fine. Now I just gotta dail in all the other timings and RTL/IO for 4200C15. 
RAM fan on 1500RPM means the DIMMs never got over 41c even on 1.60v.


----------



## Placekicker19

Gentlemen I'm having a error I can't seem to fix. I have a 9900ks and z390 dark. The ram is @ 4400 cl17 17 17 36 with semi tight secondaries and tertiary timing. When I run HCI memtest version 1.07 , i open 16 instances for every thread of my cpu, and i get a single error on the same instance/thread every single stress test between 350 and 400% coverage . Every other thread/instance can go to 1000% coverage without error. 

I have tried everything, sa and io voltage from 1.265 on both, up to 1.365 on both, plus additional offsets with no success. I put all secondaries and tertiary timings back to auto but the same thread errors everytime. I increased dram voltage to 1.525v and that caused the thread to error much quicker. My ram temps stay below 40, temps should be no issue.

If anyone has any suggestion or ideas to try they would be greatly appreciated. I'm honestly contemplating something may be wrong with my ram or cpu since the same instance/thread of hci memtest fails everytime while the other 15 pass without problems.


----------



## Imprezzion

Placekicker19 said:


> Gentlemen I'm having a error I can't seem to fix. I have a 9900ks and z390 dark. The ram is @ 4400 cl17 17 17 36 with semi tight secondaries and tertiary timing. When I run HCI memtest version 1.07 , i open 16 instances for every thread of my cpu, and i get a single error on the same instance/thread every single stress test between 350 and 400% coverage . Every other thread/instance can go to 1000% coverage without error.
> 
> I have tried everything, sa and io voltage from 1.265 on both, up to 1.365 on both, plus additional offsets with no success. I put all secondaries and tertiary timings back to auto but the same thread errors everytime. I increased dram voltage to 1.525v and that caused the thread to error much quicker. My ram temps stay below 40, temps should be no issue.
> 
> If anyone has any suggestion or ideas to try they would be greatly appreciated. I'm honestly contemplating something may be wrong with my ram or cpu since the same instance/thread of hci memtest fails everytime while the other 15 pass without problems.


Simple way to test this. Turn off hyperthreading, run it with 8 threads. If it still errors it's more likely the RAM or too high of a cache frequency.


----------



## Betroz

Have anybody done any serious testing into RTL/IOL and the performance difference going from say RTL of 61 vs 71? Cause if we only gain 1-2% in real world performance, maybe the voltage increase required is not worth it (for most of us anyways).


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> More weirdness.. I got close to 4600C18 stable, had 1 single error in a 60 minute TM5 pass, put some extra juice on IO/SA, got 15 errors. Put even more juice on it, 39 errors.
> 
> This CPU really hates IO/SA higher then 1.35v ish. It gets ridiculously unstable at like, 1.40 IO 1.45 SA. I now have a test running with 1.25 IO 1.35 SA and it already went without errors longer then it did with 1.5v SA 1.4v IO..
> 
> I thought 10xxx CPU's needed a ton of SA and could handle that as well but seems like the opposite for this one. Still, it runs 4600 with 1.35 SA and 1.25 IO. That is kinda.. special? I guess?
> 
> Probably not stable as the RAM might not like this at all but we shall see. At least it passed the first 5 minutes of TM5 without spitting 20+ errors straight away lol.


You can set the SA PWM to around 700, may be helpful.


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> Have anybody done any serious testing into RTL/IOL and the performance difference going from say RTL of 61 vs 71? Cause if we only gain 1-2% in real world performance, maybe the voltage increase required is not worth it (for most of us anyways).


Idk about real world but Aida bandwidth seems to improve about 500 or so just by tightening rtls for me. Latency around half a nanosecond better

Around 69/71/13/14 to 67/69/12/12 but on similar voltages. Haven’t tested best case rtls with higher voltage though.

I imagine this would be greater with bigger differences between auto and tuned values.


----------



## Imprezzion

Wait, 2 digits apart is fine? I always thought RTL/IO had to be within 1 digit of each other?

Or am I very wrong here.. I mean I spent all afternoon trying to get 4200C15 to stop training 60/60/3/5 and 4400C16 65/65/9/7 as I thought that was wrong lol.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Imprezzion said:


> Wait, 2 digits apart is fine? I always thought RTL/IO had to be within 1 digit of each other?


Check out step #4 in this part of Integralfx's DDR4 OC guide. He claims that:

"_RTLs should be no more than 2 apart and IOLs should be no more than 1 apart._"

So 60/60/3/5 would not be ideal, while on the other hand something like 60/62/3/4 would be acceptable.


----------



## TheBoom

Imprezzion said:


> Wait, 2 digits apart is fine? I always thought RTL/IO had to be within 1 digit of each other?
> 
> Or am I very wrong here.. I mean I spent all afternoon trying to get 4200C15 to stop training 60/60/3/5 and 4400C16 65/65/9/7 as I thought that was wrong lol.


Within 2 for RTL and 1 for IO


----------



## Imprezzion

TheBoom said:


> Within 2 for RTL and 1 for IO


Yeah i used that guide quite a lot and i remembered that it was +-1 for both but it was 2 for RTL lol.

Well, at least I fixed the RTL/IO situation on my current baseline now. Only the tertiary's are a mess right now lol. Most of them I left on Auto for now and they are all over the place. But it's stable none the less. RTL/IO is on 60/60/62/62/5/5/5/5 with Initial 62/62/1/1 with Offset 23/24 to correct the IOL. With 24/24 it will do 5/5/7/7 so I have to correct it by using a higher offset on CHA. Works fine. They can go way lower then this but i wanted a stable baseline. I got it to boot to windows at 59/59/61/61/3/3/3/3 so far.











I know my RAM voltage is quite high but it needs it. 1.54v BSOD while booting, 1.56v unstable within seconds in TM5, 1.58v error after 24 minutes, 1.60v stable. Only 42.5c max tho. "System 1" is my 140mm RAM fan . The rest was on 1.25v IO, 1.35v SA, CPU @ 5.1 core 5.0 cache 1.290v fixed LLC3.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah i used that guide quite a lot and i remembered that it was +-1 for both but it was 2 for RTL lol.
> 
> Well, at least I fixed the RTL/IO situation on my current baseline now. Only the tertiary's are a mess right now lol. Most of them I left on Auto for now and they are all over the place. But it's stable none the less. RTL/IO is on 60/60/62/62/5/5/5/5 with Initial 62/62/1/1 with Offset 23/24 to correct the IOL. With 24/24 it will do 5/5/7/7 so I have to correct it by using a higher offset on CHA. Works fine. They can go way lower then this but i wanted a stable baseline. I got it to boot to windows at 59/59/61/61/3/3/3/3 so far.
> 
> View attachment 2460584
> 
> 
> 
> I know my RAM voltage is quite high but it needs it. 1.54v BSOD while booting, 1.56v unstable within seconds in TM5, 1.58v error after 24 minutes, 1.60v stable. Only 42.5c max tho. "System 1" is my 140mm RAM fan . The rest was on 1.25v IO, 1.35v SA, CPU @ 5.1 core 5.0 cache 1.290v fixed LLC3.


No AIDA64 bandwidth shots?
And 1.60v is probably because of that CL 15.
What happens at 16/17/17/37 ?


----------



## Imprezzion

Falkentyne said:


> No AIDA64 bandwidth shots?
> And 1.60v is probably because of that CL 15.
> What happens at 16/17/17/37 ?












I need to get a new AIDA version but my subscription ended so i can't update anymore lol and can't be bothered to buy another one.. This is still without touching the tertiary timings and RTL/IOL can go lower. Also tXP = 7. I had some errors before in TM5 related to tXP = 4 so turned it up a little. There's a BETA BIOS for my board with PPD / Power Down support in which it can be disabled completely but that feature isn't working properly yet so. Still on official 1.20 BIOS for now.

DLL Bandwidth / DLLBwen = 0 wr, park, nom = 80/40/40, memory fast boot enabled (not sure what it does tho).


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Downclocked from 4600 to 4533 for better temp control.
VDIMM=1.6V, IO=1.4V, SA=1.46V. tXP=4 PPD=0. ODT CHA=80/48/48 CHB=80/48/34. Temp during TM5 stabled at 51c. 4600 needs to control the temp around 45c.


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Downclocked from 4600 to 4533 for better temp control.
> VDIMM=1.6V, IO=1.4V, SA=1.46V. tXP=4 PPD=0. Temp during TM5 stabled at 51c. 4600 needs to control the temp around 45c.
> View attachment 2460609
> 
> 
> View attachment 2460610


How did you get those tRDWR's that low. Mine won't even go under 11-12 at 4200 let alone 4533...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> How did you get those tRDWR's that low. Mine won't even go under 11-12 at 4200 let alone 4533...


Sometimes tighter timings worked better.  Besides, RDWRs need to be lower than 16 otherwise will impact the performance.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> How did you get those tRDWR's that low. Mine won't even go under 11-12 at 4200 let alone 4533...


Check your PM.
And TRDWR's can be set lower if tCWL is set higher.
At 16, TRDWR's should be able to be set to 10. However at 14, tCWL 10 simply won't train.



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Downclocked from 4600 to 4533 for better temp control.
> VDIMM=1.6V, IO=1.4V, SA=1.46V. tXP=4 PPD=0. ODT CHA=80/48/48 CHB=80/48/34. Temp during TM5 stabled at 51c. 4600 needs to control the temp around 45c.
> View attachment 2460609
> 
> View attachment 2460610


Please test your stability with OCCT 7.00+ memory test, but I don't know how long the free version will run tests for.
The auto setting is AVX which should test vdimm stability. The SSE setting is good for testing VCCSA/IMC.
And don't forget about 112k AVX disabled in-place FFT (prime95 30.3 beta 6 is the newest version unless an even newer version is out).


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Please test your stability with OCCT 7.00+ memory test, but I don't know how long the free version will run tests for.
> The auto setting is AVX which should test vdimm stability. The SSE setting is good for testing VCCSA/IMC.
> And don't forget about 112k AVX disabled in-place FFT (prime95 30.3 beta 6 is the newest version unless an even newer version is out).


The free version allows me to run 1hr test, but this OCCT MEM test did not stress the ram enough. Highest power was 9.9W. During TM5 Ollie the ram consumed 10.5W.



















Pass TM5 Ollie already guarantees my daily use.


----------



## Imprezzion

This will do for now. I kinda went off OLDFATSHEEP's tertiary timings and it worked surprisingly well. Also loosened to CL16 for now, tightened up tWR and tCKE + tRTP. Seems to run fine so far.
I'll see what this does on CL15 tomorrow and maybe push for higher frequency after that. 

Oh btw, it will train 10 tRDWR just fine on tWR 12 now. Just had to set "Fixed" mode for the timings in the BIOS otherwise it would overwrite them on "Auto" even when manually entering them.


----------



## nilssohn

Imprezzion said:


> memory fast boot enabled (not sure what it does tho).


If this is like MRC Fast Boot on Asus, you should disable it. Otherwise RAM training is skipped while starting which can lead to occasionally errors or failed boots.


----------



## Thebc2

G.skill 4266c17 2x16GB modules are finally up on Newegg. All lines are there, both royals, tridents and ripjaws - finally got my silver royal kit incoming!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## munternet

I noticed a few people raising tCWL to 16 and lowering all the tRDWRs as much as possible.
Is this more productive than doing the opposite?
Cheers

Daily because 1.2v sa and io









BTW @Falkentyne , I tried tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS and managed some satisfactory results, Cheers  I see you had a very nice result yourself 
I also tried some other combinations, both higher and lower, which worked with different supporting values


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> I noticed a few people raising tCWL to 16 and lowering all the tRDWRs as much as possible.
> Is this more productive than doing the opposite?
> Cheers
> 
> Daily because 1.2v sa and io
> View attachment 2460639
> 
> 
> BTW @Falkentyne , I tried tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS and managed some satisfactory results, Cheers  I see you had a very nice result yourself
> I also tried some other combinations, both higher and lower, which worked with different supporting values


I'll test out the difference with AIDA64 and 4200-15-17-17-34-300-2T. Give me like an hour or so hehe. I'll compare tCWL 16 10-10-10-10 to tCWL 12 15-15-15-15 or whatever will boot. Doesn't have to be stable, just has to run AIDA lol.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Pass TM5 Ollie already guarantees my daily use.


Any reason you "only" run that [email protected] and not [email protected]?

It seems people have stopped using HCI MemTest PRO 7 here and just use TM5.... why?


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> Any reason you "only" run that [email protected] and not [email protected]?
> 
> It seems people have stopped using HCI MemTest PRO 7 here and just use TM5.... why?


I stopped using HCI as TM5 Extreme finds errors way faster. I had plenty of clocks pass 3 hours of HCI only to error after 800% or so which would error within 30 minutes on TM5 Extreme.
I do usually do a full overnight HCI run after I find a stable OC with TM5 Extreme just to be sure tho. 

Here, daily updated with 1 hour of TM5 Extreme. This is where i'm going to settle for daily clocks / timings. All perfectly aligned, RTL/IO is pretty tight, all timings manually adjusted and about as tight as they go except some tertiary timings but this is a great result for these 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo's. Much better then the 3800C14 they managed on Z390. 

Now i'm off to doing some tCWL / tRDWR testing with AIDA64..


----------



## TheBoom

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The free version allows me to run 1hr test, but this OCCT MEM test did not stress the ram enough. Highest power was 9.9W. During TM5 Ollie the ram consumed 10.5W.
> 
> View attachment 2460614
> 
> 
> View attachment 2460615
> 
> 
> Pass TM5 Ollie already guarantees my daily use.


Curious to know where you got the Ollie config as well? Been using anta777 extreme config. No errors after 1.5hrs but memtest fails at 700%+.


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> No errors after 1.5hrs but memtest fails at 700%+


Could heat be the cause?


----------



## KedarWolf

TheBoom said:


> Curious to know where you got the Ollie config as well? Been using anta777 extreme config. No errors after 1.5hrs but memtest fails at 700%+.











Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs


Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app




www.overclock.net





Edit: To change the language to English, edit the .cfg file and change Language=1 to Language=0


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> Could heat be the cause?


I run memtest overnight with the AC at 20c. So very unlikely. Especially since it passes tm5 at 30c ambient.

My best guess is trfc.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Any reason you "only" run that [email protected] and not [email protected]?
> 
> It seems people have stopped using HCI MemTest PRO 7 here and just use TM5.... why?


TM5 finds errors way faster, and you can know which part of the parameters possibly cause this error.

GSkill bins your sticks using MT6.0


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> I noticed a few people raising tCWL to 16 and lowering all the tRDWRs as much as possible.
> Is this more productive than doing the opposite?
> Cheers
> 
> Daily because 1.2v sa and io
> View attachment 2460639
> 
> 
> BTW @Falkentyne , I tried tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS and managed some satisfactory results, Cheers  I see you had a very nice result yourself
> I also tried some other combinations, both higher and lower, which worked with different supporting values


It just a way to find where your RDWR can go. Set the tCWL=tCL, then your true RDWR should be the same value you set in BIOS.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

TheBoom said:


> Curious to know where you got the Ollie config as well? Been using anta777 extreme config. No errors after 1.5hrs but memtest fails at 700%+.


I attach this cfg here. You can save it as *.cfg and load it. For HEDTs you need to change channels to 4, 6 or 8.

==================================Copy below this line ==============================
Memory Test config file v0.02
Copyrights to the program belong to me.
Serj
testmem.tz.ru
[email protected]

[Main Section]
Config Name=FastMemTest
Config Author=Ollie
Cores=0
Tests=13
Time (%)=400
Cycles=40
Language=0
Test Sequence=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
[Global Memory Setup]
Channels=2
Interleave Type=1
Single DIMM width, bits=64
Operation Block, byts=64
Testing Window Size (Mb)=1236
Lock Memory Granularity (Mb)=16
Reserved Memory for Windows (Mb)=128
Capable=0x0
Debug Level=7

[Window Position]
WindowPosX=1341
WindowPosY=681

[Test0]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=RefreshStable
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=0
Test Block Size (Mb)=0


[Test1]
Enable=1
Time (%)=40
Function=MirrorMove
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=2
Test Block Size (Mb)=0


[Test2]
Enable=1
Time (%)=40
Function=MirrorMove
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=4
Test Block Size (Mb)=0


[Test3]
Enable=1
Time (%)=60
Function=SimpleTest
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=2
Test Block Size (Mb)=4


[Test4]
Enable=1
Time (%)=60
Function=SimpleTest
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=0
Test Block Size (Mb)=4


[Test5]
Enable=1
Time (%)=80
Function=MirrorMove128
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=3
Test Block Size (Mb)=0


[Test6]
Enable=1
Time (%)=80
Function=MirrorMove128
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=1
Test Block Size (Mb)=0

[Test7]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=SimpleTest
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=0
Test Block Size (Mb)=8


[Test8]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=SimpleTest
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=2
Test Block Size (Mb)=8


[Test9]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=MirrorMove
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=1
Test Block Size (Mb)=0


[Test10]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=MirrorMove128
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=2
Test Block Size (Mb)=0


[Test11]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=SimpleTest
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=2
Test Block Size (Mb)=0


[Test12]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=SimpleTest
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=1
Test Block Size (Mb)=4


----------



## Placekicker19

I can pass testmem5 anta777 extreme without error, however ill always get 1 error between 300-400% coverage and the other 15 instances go to 1000% coverage without error. I tested with and without hyperthreading with the same results.


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> I noticed a few people raising tCWL to 16 and lowering all the tRDWRs as much as possible.
> Is this more productive than doing the opposite?
> Cheers


I did the tests. tCWL 16 with 10-10-10-10-28-26:









tCWL 12 with 15-15-15-15-29-27:









Barely any difference at all. Higher tCWL and lower tRDWR seems to have slightly better latency and copy speed. I picked the best out of 5 runs for both.


----------



## TheBoom

Imprezzion said:


> I did the tests. tCWL 16 with 10-10-10-10-28-26:
> View attachment 2460654
> 
> 
> tCWL 12 with 15-15-15-15-29-27:
> View attachment 2460655
> 
> 
> Barely any difference at all. Higher tCWL and lower tRDWR seems to have slightly better latency and copy speed. I picked the best out of 5 runs for both.


Good to know. I keep mine at tcwl 14 and trdwr 12/12/12/12.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> TM5 finds errors way faster, and you can know which part of the parameters possibly cause this error.


Ok so the preset you are using is faster, but what do you use to test long-term stability? (and for how long)


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I attach this cfg here


I just tested it and got errors right away with settings that were stable in HCI MT7. I don't know how to interpret what the errors are about or if I need more VDIMM, IO or SA.

Edit : More VDIMM helped, for now.


----------



## Imprezzion

I usually stick to 1 hour if TM5 Extreme as a fast test and overnight HCI (at least 800% for all threads) for long term.

I'm testing 4400-16-18-18 now. If that passes 1 hour TM5 I'll tweak it further, if it doesn't I'll settle at the previous 4200-15-17-17 and see if I can get tXP to drop a bit further from 7 to 4 or 5 and tRFC down to 280 with higher tREFI.

EDIT: Yes, I CAN get away with 280 tRFC and maxed tREFI in a stresstest combined with tXP = 4.
I have to see if this remains stable in games and deep sleep overnight and if 32 tRAS actually has any benefits over running 34 but wow the latency dropped by a country mile lol.



















Next up: These same timings at 4266 and maybe even more . But that's for tomorrow. Time to actually play some games now.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> I usually stick to 1 hour if TM5 Extreme as a fast test and overnight HCI (at least 800% for all threads) for long term.
> 
> I'm testing 4400-16-18-18 now. If that passes 1 hour TM5 I'll tweak it further, if it doesn't I'll settle at the previous 4200-15-17-17 and see if I can get tXP to drop a bit further from 7 to 4 or 5 and tRFC down to 280 with higher tREFI.
> 
> EDIT: Yes, I CAN get away with 280 tRFC and maxed tREFI in a stresstest combined with tXP = 4.
> I have to see if this remains stable in games and deep sleep overnight and if 32 tRAS actually has any benefits over running 34 but wow the latency dropped by a country mile lol.
> 
> View attachment 2460669
> 
> 
> View attachment 2460671
> 
> 
> Next up: These same timings at 4266 and maybe even more . But that's for tomorrow. Time to actually play some games now.


You need to use the beta Bios with ppd control and Put it to 0.
Bios works perfectly fine and drops latency by atleast 3.
Your latency is way to high, i get Same latency with c18.


----------



## Placekicker19

Betroz said:


> I just tested it and got errors right away with settings that were stable in HCI MT7. I don't know how to interpret what the errors are about or if I need more VDIMM, IO or SA.
> 
> Edit : More VDIMM helped, for now.


 Thats funny, im stable in testmem5 anta777 extreme no problem but get a error in memtest. 

Does anyone know if having hwinfo open during hci memtest could possible cause a random error?


----------



## Betroz

1.37 IO and 1.45 SA (which ever of them is was) is not enough for me to be stable at 4400 16-17-17 in TM5 Ollie. Backed down to 4266 and that did it. I guess I got a RAM kit and IMC that isn't as good as some of the others in here.


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA (which ever of them is was) is not enough for me to be stable at 4400 16-17-17 in TM5 Ollie. Backed down to 4266 and that did it. I guess I got a RAM kit and IMC that isn't as good as some of the others in here.


C16 at 4400 isn't easy to run. How much DRAM voltage and how hot are the DIMM's? They probably need the full 1.6v and sub 48c temps to be able to do 4400C16.



itssladenlol said:


> You need to use the beta Bios with ppd control and Put it to 0.
> Bios works perfectly fine and drops latency by atleast 3.
> Your latency is way to high, i get Same latency with c18.


Which specific version, the E7C71IMS.12U one? I can try that one out. Will be tomorrow tho.


----------



## Placekicker19

Betroz said:


> 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA (which ever of them is was) is not enough for me to be stable at 4400 16-17-17 in TM5 Ollie. Backed down to 4266 and that did it. I guess I got a RAM kit and IMC that isn't as good as some of the others in here.


Can you run the anta777 extreme test stable?


----------



## Betroz

Placekicker19 said:


> Can you run the anta777 extreme test stable?


I just got 1 error after 2+ hours with the Ollie preset, so I guess anta777 would fail too. What to change now... uhhh should I even care.


----------



## TheBoom

Imprezzion said:


> I usually stick to 1 hour if TM5 Extreme as a fast test and overnight HCI (at least 800% for all threads) for long term.
> 
> I'm testing 4400-16-18-18 now. If that passes 1 hour TM5 I'll tweak it further, if it doesn't I'll settle at the previous 4200-15-17-17 and see if I can get tXP to drop a bit further from 7 to 4 or 5 and tRFC down to 280 with higher tREFI.
> 
> EDIT: Yes, I CAN get away with 280 tRFC and maxed tREFI in a stresstest combined with tXP = 4.
> I have to see if this remains stable in games and deep sleep overnight and if 32 tRAS actually has any benefits over running 34 but wow the latency dropped by a country mile lol.
> 
> View attachment 2460669
> 
> 
> View attachment 2460671
> 
> 
> Next up: These same timings at 4266 and maybe even more . But that's for tomorrow. Time to actually play some games now.


I thought it’s been pretty much established that tras minimum should be tcl+trcd+trtp-2.

Wouldnt going lower than that cause the board to set some arbitrary value that will actually diminish performance in real world usage?


----------



## Placekicker19

Is using whats suggested here https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md , the best prime 95 settings to test ram stability ? A fft range from 800k to 800k, or is there a better prime 95 setting?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> I just tested it and got errors right away with settings that were stable in HCI MT7. I don't know how to interpret what the errors are about or if I need more VDIMM, IO or SA.
> 
> Edit : More VDIMM helped, for now.


For a quick test, 3 cycles is enough. 3 cycles later you should start to consider thermal reasons. For daily you can run as long as you feel comfortable. For me its 1hr.

Tests 1 and 2 do not have too much stress, so basically is the IMC or ring. Tests 3-4 consider mainly tRFC. In test 5 consider the tWRRD or some similar timings. In tests 6-8 add VDIMM increases the stability. Test 9-12 are "Mirrowmove" tests again, haven't figured out how to adjust the timings to pass this, mainly adjust VDIMM, add IO/SA in most cases don't help much.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3 cycles later you should start to consider thermal reasons.


Well I don't think 45C is too hot for these sticks. Thanks for the last part


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Well I don't think 45C is too hot for these sticks. Thanks for the last part


It also depends on the initial signal. For eg, at the beginning your signal is level 5, your imc can sense level 4, but when the temp increases to 45c your signal drops to 3, that would be the problem. If the initial is 6, at 45c it drops to 4, it will still be fine.

Not only sticks, can also consider IO/SA vrm temps and ram VRM temp.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It also depends on the initial signal. For eg, at the beginning your signal is level 5, your imc can sense level 4, but when the temp increases to 45c your signal drops to 3, that would be the problem. If the initial is 6, at 45c it drops to 4, it will still be fine.
> 
> Not only sticks, can also consider IO/SA vrm temps and ram VRM temp.


Now more than before, I understand why most people just buy 3200 or 3600 RAM, load XMP, and call it a day. Because all the variables in memory tweaking can be too much.

I have a 360mm AIO in the top that is pulling air out of my case (right above VRM), a 1100 rpm 140mm fan sitting directly ontop of my memory, and 3 140mm fans for intake in my Phanteks P500. If this cooling is not enough...


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It also depends on the initial signal.


Can that be helped by redusing tREFI? I am using 65535 tREFI now, but maybe my sticks don't like that and therefore I get apparently random errors in TM5 Ollie?

Question for all in here, btw.


----------



## Imprezzion

Depends greatly on the heat spreader quality. The old gen 1 Vengeance (non pro) heat spreaders are much worse then Trident Z Neo ones for example. 

My Vengeance 3466 2x8GB B-Die couldn't do 1.6v even with the 140mm fan as they would go over 50c and get unstable quickly. I was limited to ~1.54v around 46-48c.

These Trident Z Neo's don't even hit 45c on 1.6v with higher density chips.

And yes, I think 32 tRAS doesn't help at all. I should go back to 34. This board defaults to 37 on Auto on these timings so, 32 is probably 37 actual.

I always understood that tREFI was tied in with tRFC in some way and had a big effect in memory retention over time with things like sleep mode and such right?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> Can that be helped by redusing tREFI? I am using 65535 tREFI now, but maybe my sticks don't like that and therefore I get apparently random errors in TM5 Ollie?
> 
> Question for all in here, btw.


Your cooling should be enough. 65535 is the most brainless number if the temperature is controlled well. Reducing REFI might cause problems if not calculated according to the formula. If unsure just put it AUTO and see what will happen. MSI will help you with it.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Reducing REFI might cause problems if not calculated according to the formula. If unsure just put it AUTO and see what will happen. MSI will help you with it.


MSI ? I have an Asus XII Apex board.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> Depends greatly on the heat spreader quality. The old gen 1 Vengeance (non pro) heat spreaders are much worse then Trident Z Neo ones for example.
> 
> My Vengeance 3466 2x8GB B-Die couldn't do 1.6v even with the 140mm fan as they would go over 50c and get unstable quickly. I was limited to ~1.54v around 46-48c.
> 
> These Trident Z Neo's don't even hit 45c on 1.6v with higher density chips.
> 
> And yes, I think 32 tRAS doesn't help at all. I should go back to 34. This board defaults to 37 on Auto on these timings so, 32 is probably 37 actual.
> 
> I always understood that tREFI was tied in with tRFC in some way and had a big effect in memory retention over time with things like sleep mode and such right?


tREFI defines the recharging time of the caps. The energy stored in the caps will degrade with time so it needs to recharge. The only problem with tREFI is that, if the ram is operating, at the same time the ram is recharging, this will bring errors. 65535 again is not a good number, if the energy in the caps is degraded too much, the ram signal will not be so good for the imc.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> MSI ? I have an Asus XII Apex board.


Sorry I mixed your rig with Imprezzion's. 🥴 So if unsure, just put the tREFI to AUTO. Haven't tried AUTO on ASUS, MSI auto generally does a good job.


----------



## Betroz

After alot of TM5 failings, I believe that my IMC is the problem. My working theory anyway. What specific timings should i change first in order to lessen the burden on the IMC, while still maintaining good performance? tCL 17 for some reason, is giving me errors in HCI, but that is probably the RAMs fault.

Edit : I have increased vcore to see if my IMC will cope better.


----------



## TheBoom

Trefi seems to have a somewhat significant impact on linpack extreme. 36660 calculated for 310ns trfc was stable yesterday at 1.37 IO/SA but changed it to 65535 and and it’s no longer stable even at 1.4. Well no WHEAs but residuals only match 60-70%.

Guess I need to run tm5 again to make sure trefi isn’t affecting stability.


----------



## Imprezzion

I edited my sig to reflect my current rig lol. Saw it was kinda outdated. 

I played Division 2 all evening and RAM did fine. I will drop tRAS back to a useful number and tREFI as well down to 32500 which I usually run. Even tho it doesn't seem to give me any grief at 65xxx at the moment. Sleeping the PC over dinner didn't have any wierdness resuming either so, it's probably fine but still.

I got a few things lined up for tomorrow during working from home. First I wanna try 4266 at the same timings, then I wanna try and get either 4500 or 4600 to run stable at a useful timing level so basically at most 17-19-19 cause otherwise it would cost me too much latency.

And I might even flash the beta BIOS for the Ace for PPD disabling support. As long as I can still downgrade it if it runs bad...


----------



## Arctucas

Trying to run Intel Latency Memory test, I get "the procedure entry point getsystemcpusetinformation could not be located in the dynamic link library kernal32.dll" error.

What to do?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Arctucas said:


> Trying to run Intel Latency Memory test, I get "the procedure entry point getsystemcpusetinformation could not be located in the dynamic link library kernal32.dll" error.
> 
> What to do?


Never seen this. Reboot then try to use admin privileges
.


----------



## Arctucas

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Never seen this. Reboot then try to use admin privileges
> .


Was running admin account and as administrator.


----------



## HappyAlive

Arctucas said:


> Was running admin account and as administrator.


Try v3.8.


----------



## Arctucas

HappyAlive said:


> Try v3.8.


Link?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

5m v3 so far


----------



## Betroz

Well what do you know...more vcore was the key. When I had my Viper 2x8 kit at 4300c16, my CPU was stable at 5.0/4.8 with 1.32v. Now with my 2x16 Royal kit at 4266c16 I had to increase vcore to 1.35v. I stopped the test after 4 hours which is enough for me :


----------



## Imprezzion

Hmm. I should try that on 4600 then.. raise the vcore a bit or just test on lower COU and cache clocks. 

I am working on 4600-16-18-18-39-400 as a test now and it does have 2 errors in 1 hour. I can't add more SA IO or DRAM as I'm already on 1.45 SA 1 .40 IO 1.65 DRAM..


----------



## Placekicker19

Vcore has a huge impact on stability. 9900ks @ 5.2ghz, 4.9ghz cache, and 4400mhz cl17-17-17-34 with 1.270v on both sa and io, starts spitting multiple errors in memtest @27% coverage while using a vcore set at 1.28v, 4266mhz ram is stable. With same settings as above, 1.305 set vcore produces only 1 error @ 300% memtest coverage.

I'm testing 1.315 set vcore now and will report back when and if it errors. Im hoping stability will continue to improve. Maybe that's why i had no trouble passing testmem5 but would always produce a error in memtest after 100% .


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> I am working on 4600-16-18-18-39-400 as a test now and it does have 2 errors in 1 hour. I can't add more SA IO or DRAM as I'm already on 1.45 SA 1 .40 IO 1.65 DRAM..


Try 4400 17-18-18-38. We really should not expect dual rank sticks to clock aswell as singel rank, at least not with Comet Lake (and certainly not with a 9900KS...). Rocket Lake might change that.


----------



## TheBoom

There seems to be a balance between vcore and imc voltages. With mine I turned up and IO and SA to keep vcore as low as possible. With more vcore you could get away with less IO/SA.


----------



## Placekicker19

Which kit would you guys recommend between the 2.
1. Teamgroup T-Force xtreem 16gb 4500 cl18 1.45v
#TXKD416G4500HC18EDC01

2.Teamgroup T-Force xtreem ARGB 16GB 3600 CL14 1.45V
#TF10D416G3600HC14CDC01

I know the xtreem ARGB r a newer model. These are about the best kits i can find on Amazon currently.


----------



## Betroz

Placekicker19 said:


> 1. Teamgroup T-Force xtreem 16gb 4500 cl18 1.45v


Nizzen in here has one of those, and he runs it at 4700C17 CR1.


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> There seems to be a balance between vcore and imc voltages. With mine I turned up and IO and SA to keep vcore as low as possible. With more vcore you could get away with less IO/SA.


As an example, here is mine :


----------



## TheBoom

Interesting. I can’t seem to set io and sa at different values or I end up with errors and bsods.

I noticed you set Vtt to more than half of dram voltage. Does that help? Also did you change DMI voltage?


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> I noticed you set Vtt to more than half of dram voltage. Does that help? Also did you change DMI voltage?


Yes I set DRAM VTT manually. I don't remember if it was OLDFATSHEEP that adviced me to that or someone else. DMI on auto.


----------



## Placekicker19

Betroz said:


> Nizzen in here has one of those, and he runs it at 4700C17 CR1.


Thanks for the suggestion .
I finally got my ran passing memtest over 500% error free, before i always got a single error around 300% coverage. I upped my vcore to 1.305v and lowered my ram voltage to 1.490v, its running error free. Ram overclocking really does require alot of effort and time.


----------



## Hiikeri

On MSI ram overclock video (2018, 9900K) that guy says that dont set vccIO higher that yours vcore is.

Becouse vccIO voltage are made from Vcore, or something like that it was. IO is somehow limited to vcore.

You all IO voltage is much higher than vcore, thats why yours Ram goes further becouse IO gets more juice on higher Vcore.


----------



## Betroz

Hiikeri said:


> On MSI ram overclock video (2018, 9900K) that guy says that dont set vccIO higher that yours vcore is.


Maybe that is the reason why I had problems then. I had IO higher than vcore. Now they are the same (1.35v)


----------



## Imprezzion

That makes perfect sense.. my vCore is just 1.29v and my 4200 C15 OC uses 1.25v IO so that works. For 4400 and 4600 I tend to need 1.35-1.40v or something like that which is well above vCore. But I can't run that much vCore...


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> But I can't run that much vCore...


4200 C15 is not bad anyways...so why not run that.


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> 4200 C15 is not bad anyways...so why not run that.


Most simple reason there is. That's boring. .

Gotta have some background thing to do while working from home.. just playing around with some overclocks is a lot of fun actually.

I flashed the BETA 12U BIOS now with full PPD support. Let's see how that does.


----------



## bscool

Placekicker19 said:


> Which kit would you guys recommend between the 2.
> 1. Teamgroup T-Force xtreem 16gb 4500 cl18 1.45v
> #TXKD416G4500HC18EDC01
> 
> 2.Teamgroup T-Force xtreem ARGB 16GB 3600 CL14 1.45V
> #TF10D416G3600HC14CDC01
> 
> I know the xtreem ARGB r a newer model. These are about the best kits i can find on Amazon currently.


Team 4500, unless you like the RGB. I have had a few kits of TEAM(b die) 3600c16, 4133c18, 4500c18 and all have been excellent. Much cheaper than the Gskill kits I have and will run very similar timings.


----------



## TheBoom

Hiikeri said:


> On MSI ram overclock video (2018, 9900K) that guy says that dont set vccIO higher that yours vcore is.
> 
> Becouse vccIO voltage are made from Vcore, or something like that it was. IO is somehow limited to vcore.
> 
> You all IO voltage is much higher than vcore, thats why yours Ram goes further becouse IO gets more juice on higher Vcore.


Well my vcore under load is around 1.35v and my IO has to 1.4 to be stable. So that theory doesn’t make much sense in my case.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, that BETA BIOS with PPD support just took off a massive chunk of latency. With PPD Disabled and tCKE dropped to the floor (2) it lowered my average latency by 2.2ns!


----------



## xSneak

Hey guys, I was looking into getting some new ram and I was wondering what the difference between the trident z royal and ripjaws v was. Do they use a different pcb? When I look at the pictures, the pcbs look different and the tridentz is marketed as having 10 layer..... they have the same timings for the kits.

I could probably find the answer in this thread if it wasn't for the search thread feature being removed or put somewhere else.


----------



## munternet

xSneak said:


> Hey guys, I was looking into getting some new ram and I was wondering what the difference between the trident z royal and ripjaws v was. Do they use a different pcb? When I look at the pictures, the pcbs look different and the tridentz is marketed as having 10 layer..... they have the same timings for the kits.
> 
> I could probably find the answer in this thread if it wasn't for the search thread feature being removed or put somewhere else.


How much ram are you looking at getting?


----------



## xSneak

munternet said:


> How much ram are you looking at getting?


I'm looking between these two kits:





Are you a human?







www.newegg.com









Are you a human?







www.newegg.com





I already have the 4000mhz cl19 dual rank kit; I want to replace with a faster one.


----------



## munternet

xSneak said:


> I'm looking between these two kits:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already have the 4000mhz cl19 dual rank kit; I want to replace with a faster one.


I figured out how to use the custom search 
Very good feature  
Maybe something in there will give you an idea









Search results for query: ripjaws v







www.overclock.net


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Hiikeri said:


> On MSI ram overclock video (2018, 9900K) that guy says that dont set vccIO higher that yours vcore is.
> 
> Becouse vccIO voltage are made from Vcore, or something like that it was. IO is somehow limited to vcore.
> 
> You all IO voltage is much higher than vcore, thats why yours Ram goes further becouse IO gets more juice on higher Vcore.


That's not true.

If that is the theory, how they applied IO=1.6 SA=1.65 to achieve 6666MHz while keeping cpu at stock?\








bianbao`s Memory Frequency score: 3332.7 MHz with a DDR4 SDRAM


The DDR4 SDRAMscores getScoreFormatted in the Memory Frequency benchmark. bianbaoranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## xSneak

I'm going to wait for the 4400cl17 kit to release and see how the memory oc on zen 3 goes.
I'll get the royal kit though for the 10 layer pcb and thicker heatsink.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If that is the theory, how they applied IO=1.6 SA=1.65 to achieve 6666MHz while keeping cpu at stock?\


But is it possible to run the CPU at stock while running overclocked memory... Last time I tried that, auto vcore jumped to ~1.5v. So not really stock.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> But is it possible to run the CPU at stock while running overclocked memory... Last time I tried that, auto vcore jumped to ~1.5v. So not really stock.


Maybe try a fixed 4.8GHz to test the theory


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Maybe try a fixed 4.8GHz to test the theory


To force the CPU to run at the 4.8 Ghz v/f curve you mean? Next step is 5.1 as you know, and that technically is a overclock on the 10900K.


----------



## ducegt

I had no issues with a steady vcore 1.3v and 1.38v IO with a 10850k at 5.2. Don't think that theory holds water. People gaining stability with more vcore simply had an unstable CPU OC.


----------



## Thebc2

Time to play with 2 dimms!











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## xSneak

Thebc2 said:


> Time to play with 2 dimms!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I was about to buy the dual rank kit today. Please update with the results from it in the future.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> But is it possible to run the CPU at stock while running overclocked memory... Last time I tried that, auto vcore jumped to ~1.5v. So not really stock.


If you set manual OC, asus will lift all the cpu limit for you. You need to restore all the power limits on the cpu and use auto freq&volt to keep the cpu at stock.

When doing their WR, their VCore was 1.43-ish.


----------



## Betroz

ducegt said:


> People gaining stability with more vcore simply had an unstable CPU OC.


That is possible yes, but it's kind of strange that TM5 Ollie would find this CPU instability, while Prime95 would not...or Realbench for that matter.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

surfed thru 20 pages since my last post and you guys back to quick stress tests like lolz
welcome to overvolt the crap out of it and suicide benching 
ordered those viper steel 4400 to give it a spin on my 7980xe im not expecting too much out of it anyway other than* real stress testing* lol... then after that maybe i would give it a spin on my 8700k


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> im not expecting too much out of it anyway other than* real stress testing* lol


Cool story bro. Show us the screens to prove it.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> Cool story bro. Show us the screens to prove it.


 when i get to it, i be receiving them today hopefully early.. my 7980xe already can chew 4200 like it aint crap anyway lol.. thats the most if you lucky a x299 system will give you anyway...

But i will test them in my x299 dark and 7940x i always loose a stick on him @ 4200mhz.... so 4000 it is then after that i try/transfer timings on my main which is the 7980xe and evga micro2 then just retest with my base from the 7940x... as trying to remove my current sticks on the 7980xe rig is quite a mission bcuz of the size of the build..


https://www.overclock.net/attachments/1-png.2460488/



that was posted here with multiple runs as well and ramtest.. long time ago lol


----------



## Imprezzion

Why I only run 1 hour stress tests: I have more to do, 1 hour is generally enough to never ever see a crash or error in my daily usage. So it's stable enough for me.

My real stress test is just daily usage for a month. No crashes or WHEA errors? Good, it's stable.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

i leave them running when i go to sleep and then straight to work.. so im not eye peaking the pc like that desperate :rollseyes: even so i own multiple system as well.. At least i can say my crap is stable 100% 

So i guess my viper steel tests are going to be the only ones here that will determine what the kits are capable in the end... as i nullified every other test here so far it aint worth looking at it. i have places like hwbot for that instead


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> That is possible yes, but it's kind of strange that TM5 Ollie would find this CPU instability, while Prime95 would not...or Realbench for that matter.


Linpack extreme would have found that in a matter of seconds lol. I’ve found linpack is sensitive to every single component, even if it’s a minor instability. You either get whea errors or instant bsods.

If you’re borderline stable then residuals will be all over the place.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

TheBoom said:


> Linpack extreme would have found that in a matter of seconds lol. I’ve found linpack is sensitive to every single component, even if it’s a minor instability. You either get whea errors or instant bsods.
> 
> If you’re borderline stable then residuals will be all over the place.


it would have found it same as p95 that doesnt mean is sensitive better say over abusive to a point of stability or create it??.. p95 and linpack for stress testing to then play games which are one of the weakest loads you can throw at a cpu is like meh you wasted all that time and effort trying to dial p95/linpack settings to still crash in a game due to a vdroop or fluctuation on a voltage :rolls eyes:... thats why i dont like them to test for stability they aint real loads.. I mean i have alot of cooling stuff/power where i can test with them tho thats what the only use i see them for realistic speaking lol

Is either you aint stable or you have voltage quality issues and the pc cant keep up.... maintaining a heavy load hammering the cpu/imc etc aint enough to trigger it..

But 1-8 etc cores loads and this cores dropping/parking loads etc will trigger it... most causes of stability (not stable at all) (voltage transients/cores dropping loads voltage swings) specially on low loads.. Theres more fluctuation than a steady load like *p95 which at this point is just a power virus and is useless* and its not even close to real case scenario behaviors where you see windows scheduling to any thread available up and down cpu power saving features switching up and down *this create voltage transients and they are the worst on loads like that where it fluctuates alot..*


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> its not even close to real case scenario behaviors where you see windows scheduling to any thread available up and down cpu power saving features switching up and down *this create voltage transients and they are the worst on loads like that where it fluctuates alot..*


That is why many use Battlefield 5 Multiplayer as a stability test, for that very reason.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

then you have stuff like this on hwbot too which is why i dont care for sponsored overclockers they are useless for the cause including kingpin








Splave`s Cinebench - R15 score: 3897 cb with a Core i9 10900K


The Core i9 10900K @ 7002.7MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R15 benchmark. Splaveranks #2 worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org





tell me what you guys see wrong in the posted picture mind you this is a 10900k system
to begin with looks PS as hell lol


----------



## Imprezzion

It looks like an uneven amount of DIMMs?


----------



## TheBoom

zGunBLADEz said:


> it would have found it same as p95 that doesnt mean is sensitive better say over abusive to a point of stability or create it??.. p95 and linpack for stress testing to then play games which are one of the weakest loads you can throw at a cpu is like meh you wasted all that time and effort trying to dial p95/linpack settings to still crash in a game due to a vdroop or fluctuation on a voltage :rolls eyes:... thats why i dont like them to test for stability they aint real loads.. I mean i have alot of cooling stuff/power where i can test with them tho thats what the only use i see them for realistic speaking lol
> 
> Is either you aint stable or you have voltage quality issues and the pc cant keep up.... maintaining a heavy load hammering the cpu/imc etc aint enough to trigger it..
> 
> But 1-8 etc cores loads and this cores dropping/parking loads etc will trigger it... most causes of stability (not stable at all) (voltage transients/cores dropping loads voltage swings) specially on low loads.. Theres more fluctuation than a steady load like *p95 which at this point is just a power virus and is useless* and its not even close to real case scenario behaviors where you see windows scheduling to any thread available up and down cpu power saving features switching up and down *this create voltage transients and they are the worst on loads like that where it fluctuates alot..*


Nobody’s saying that linpack/p95 should be the be all and end all of stress testing, it’s just an initial tool to get your settings dialed in.

At the end of the day real world usage is going to be the real stress test, but no one is going to overclock and then wait for a game to crash or bsod and before adjusting as necessary.

That being said I haven’t encountered a situation where a game or application crashes after being tested stable with linpack and that’s with a multitude of games and apps. 

Not sure why you even bothered with the rant if you’re not going to suggest a much better alternative for stress testing.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

TheBoom said:


> Nobody’s saying that linpack/p95 should be the be all and end all of stress testing, it’s just an initial tool to get your settings dialed in.
> 
> At the end of the day real world usage is going to be the real stress test, but no one is going to overclock and then wait for a game to crash or bsod and before adjusting as necessary.
> 
> Not sure why you even bothered with the rant if you’re not going to suggest a much better alternative for stress testing.


bcuz there isnt one .. im just pointing what p95 or linpack does as a power virus its not realistic but looks like some people are holding into them like the holy grail for stability vs real case scenario..

Now ram stress wise 30min/1hr are not enough to call something stable... specially the way it chews % wise at high overclocks.. thats for sure  thats why i switch between them tester suits out there..

Anta extreme/ramtest and hci "long runs" in my case..

i can chew thru the whole lot of ffts on p95 in less than 2hrs if i put 1min each test then call it p95 stable end of all 




Imprezzion said:


> It looks like an uneven amount of DIMMs?


its a "joke" by splave using a "PROTOTYPE BOARD" not available for purchase.. this is him trying to be funny... score shouldnt be on just bcuz of the prototype board... end of story.. enough that you have to see hand cherry picked hardware scores in hwbot.. now we entering into prototype scores as well..
Source: ASRock Z490 AQUA Helps Set Four 10th Gen Core Records







the real picture


----------



## Nizzen

Placekicker19 said:


> Which kit would you guys recommend between the 2.
> 1. Teamgroup T-Force xtreem 16gb 4500 cl18 1.45v
> #TXKD416G4500HC18EDC01
> 
> 2.Teamgroup T-Force xtreem ARGB 16GB 3600 CL14 1.45V
> #TF10D416G3600HC14CDC01
> 
> I know the xtreem ARGB r a newer model. These are about the best kits i can find on Amazon currently.


Team Extreem 4500c18 kit on Apex xii


----------



## Placekicker19

bscool said:


> Team 4500, unless you like the RGB. I have had a few kits of TEAM(b die) 3600c16, 4133c18, 4500c18 and all have been excellent. Much cheaper than the Gskill kits I have and will run very similar timings.


Do you know if the 4500 cl18 have temp sensors on them?


----------



## garyd9

zGunBLADEz said:


> bcuz there isnt one .. im just pointing what p95 or linpack does as a power virus its not realistic but looks like some people are holding into them like the holy grail for stability vs real case scenario..
> 
> Now ram stress wise 30min/1hr are not enough to call something stable... specially the way it chews % wise at high overclocks.. thats for sure  thats why i switch between them tester suits out there..


I think that part of the problem is that different people define "stability" and "real case scenario" differently. To many, the real world scenario is playing a game. If 1 bit gets flipped every 8 hours of game play, chances are that no one would notice. (The games these days are usually buggy enough that a bit of RAM instability wouldn't be noticed.) 99% or even 95% stable might be good enough.

For others, a single bit flipping in the RAM during a compile for a large production system can result in hours or days of wasted testing time. There's nothing worse than a bug that can't be repeated. (Of course, overclocked non-ECC RAM probably shouldn't be used in this scenario, but it still is.) In this case, you try to throw worst case (and even unrealistic) scenarios at the system to try and break it. In these cases, it's a binary decision: Either it's 100% stable, or it's not.


----------



## bscool

Placekicker19 said:


> Do you know if the 4500 cl18 have temp sensors on them?


None of the Team kits I have used had temp sensors.


----------



## D13mass

Guys, who can explain me why I can see lower performance with the same timings when frequency different is only 20-30 Mhz?


----------



## Betroz

garyd9 said:


> In these cases, it's a binary decision: Either it's 100% stable, or it's not.


People who require 100% stability should not overclock. Those that need large memory bandwith do not buy the Z490 platform either.


----------



## Nizzen

Placekicker19 said:


> Do you know if the 4500 cl18 have temp sensors on them?


No tempsensor. They have have better stock cooler than any g.skill, so that's possitive  Good airflow around the memory, and temp is never an issue up to 1.5-1.6v. I'm running 1.59v now on air, and it's ramtest stable for hours


----------



## Placekicker19

Nizzen said:


> Team Extreem 4500c18 kit on Apex xii
> 
> View attachment 2460877
> View attachment 2460878


Man thats a beast, really makes me want to get a z490 apex or dark. .Ive been waiting to upgrade my 1080ti and a 3090 probably makes more sense.

No temp sensor kind of sucks but the coolers look beefy so thats a plus. I bought a kit of patriot 4400 cl19 and they error on memtest with over 1.495v and they cant hit the timings that my gskills can.


----------



## Betroz

Placekicker19 said:


> I bought a kit of patriot 4400 cl19 and they error on memtest with over 1.495v and they cant hit the timings that my gskills can.


My Viper 4400C19 kit ran at close to 1.6v and didn't error, but I cooled them with a 140mm fan ontop.


----------



## garyd9

Betroz said:


> People who require 100% stability should not overclock. Those that need large memory bandwith do not buy the Z490 platform either.


I don't disagree, and even mentioned that in my post that you replied to:


garyd9 said:


> (Of course, overclocked non-ECC RAM probably shouldn't be used in this scenario, but it still is.)


In these COVID times, many of us are using our home "toys" for business. My approach is that as long as I paid for the machine, I'll do what I want with it. However, I'll make the concession of ensuring as much stability as I can. That, to me, means running the extreme (and usually unrealistic) stress tests with 0 errors.


----------



## KedarWolf

Betroz said:


> People who require 100% stability should not overclock. Those that need large memory bandwith do not buy the Z490 platform either.


If you properly stress test your CPU, memory and cache overclocks you can get 100 stable just as good as at stock settings.


----------



## Betroz

KedarWolf said:


> If you properly stress test your CPU, memory and cache overclocks you can get 100 stable just as good as at stock settings.


Yes, but how long to run those tests is what people disagree on in here. Personally 2-4 hours is enough for me, for you that may be 12 hours. The thing is though, what if you do a workload later on that crashes after 14 hours...


----------



## HappyAlive

Betroz said:


> People who require 100% stability should not overclock. Those that need large memory bandwith do not buy the Z490 platform either.


You can have 100% stability while overclocking, you just need to not be a ******.


----------



## TheBoom

D13mass said:


> Guys, who can explain me why I can see lower performance with the same timings when frequency different is only 20-30 Mhz?


Probably unstable. Also Aida is quite inconsistent so you need to run it a few times to compare best results.


----------



## munternet

D13mass said:


> Guys, who can explain me why I can see lower performance with the same timings when frequency different is only 20-30 Mhz?


Differences in red


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> People who require 100% stability should not overclock. Those that need large memory bandwith do not buy the Z490 platform either.


Even stock is not guaranteed stable


----------



## D13mass

munternet said:


> Differences in red
> 
> View attachment 2460983


You are captain obvious 😀 I know that, I even tried to improve timings for lower frequency. 
Ok, one more example: the same profile, on right picture you can see cpu 4700 just because turbo boost works.









I had 46.9ns and now 49-52ns, the same profile, the same timings, the same voltages.


----------



## D13mass

TheBoom said:


> Probably unstable.


You know it`s stable, because passed Testmem, Prime95 and other tests, also I was working and playing a few days on this profile.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

nice sticks for the price this is just a bench run... @ 1.50v









already passed 2000% hci @ 16/16/16/32/1T/285 so i scratch that up and adjusted timings

now im crunching









Best part of it is @ 1.375V


----------



## zGunBLADEz

D13mass said:


> You know it`s stable, because passed Testmem, Prime95 and other tests, also I was working and playing a few days on this profile.


lower that trfc bro start around 400+ check for stability


----------



## D13mass

zGunBLADEz said:


> lower that trfc bro start around 400+ check for stability


Lower then 620 it will fail, I have 2x16 Ballistics 3000Mhz (2 rank, Micron E-die)


----------



## zGunBLADEz

D13mass said:


> Lower then 620 it will fail, I have 2x16 Ballistics 3000Mhz (2 rank, Micron E-die)


what voltage? thats the only setting will net you latency gains at that point


----------



## D13mass

zGunBLADEz said:


> what voltage? thats the only setting will net you latency gains at that point


Dram = 1.47V, SA = 1.35 and IO = 1.25V


----------



## zGunBLADEz

D13mass said:


> Dram = 1.47V, SA = 1.35 and IO = 1.25V


i had 2 pairs of when hynix relased high speed when they were stuck @ 3200 tops bins and they didnt like voltage at all like 1.375v tops after that was no dice.. did you try that>?

had one @ 3200 that did 3600 and a 3733 one that did 3800+


----------



## D13mass

zGunBLADEz said:


> did you try that>?


I have tried from 1.35 to 1.47 V  Lower TRFC I can get = 586 for 3866MHz..


----------



## zGunBLADEz

D13mass said:


> I have tried from 1.35 to 1.47 V  Lower TRFC I can get = 586 for 3866MHz..


then thats it bro u run the course


----------



## D13mass

zGunBLADEz said:


> then thats it bro u run the course


I`m wondering why I can see different values in Aida64, I just saved my profile, made some experiments, then again load my saved profile and see such a low values.

One more funny example: if I increase ram frequency now for 100MHz without changing timings - I will see no change at all in Aida64, even could be worst then now. 
4000>4100 with the same timings...


----------



## TheBoom

D13mass said:


> I`m wondering why I can see different values in Aida64, I just saved my profile, made some experiments, then again load my saved profile and see such a low values.
> 
> One more funny example: if I increase ram frequency now for 100MHz without changing timings - I will see no change at all in Aida64, even could be worst then now.
> 4000>4100 with the same timings...


Something in the background running?

Also I did notice that with too low imc voltages you can be stable but end up scoring less in cache and memory benches.

I have a similar kit to yours except for RGB. 4000 C16 needs 1.4685 dram and 1.35 SA and IO. Lowest trfc at 4000mhz was about 600.


----------



## D13mass

TheBoom said:


> I have a similar kit to yours except for RGB. 4000 C16 needs 1.4685 dram and 1.35 SA and IO. Lowest trfc at 4000mhz was about 600.


Interesting , could you show Asrock Timing screen?


----------



## garyd9

D13mass said:


> I`m wondering why I can see different values in Aida64, I just saved my profile, made some experiments, then again load my saved profile and see such a low values.
> 
> One more funny example: if I increase ram frequency now for 100MHz without changing timings - I will see no change at all in Aida64, even could be worst then now.
> 4000>4100 with the same timings...


Just a guess based on my own mistake: You have hyper-v or some other hypervisor installed. Go into BIOS and turn off VT-x (and VT-d.) Just look for the word "virtual" in the CPU config (not in a tweaking or timing menu.)


----------



## zGunBLADEz

adjusted a few more settings


----------



## TheBoom

garyd9 said:


> Just a guess based on my own mistake: You have hyper-v or some other hypervisor installed. Go into BIOS and turn off VT-x (and VT-d.) Just look for the word "virtual" in the CPU config (not in a tweaking or timing menu.)


I noticed mine only has vt-d. Either way it doesn’t matter if hyper v in windows is disabled I think?


----------



## TheBoom

D13mass said:


> Interesting , could you show Asrock Timing screen?












phone pic sorry for low quality.


----------



## Placekicker19

Is there a guide or chart for testmem5 that gives you details on what might be the root cause of a error generated at certain times in the test. Like if you error at 5 min. ( ) may be the cause, or 20 minutes.

I know I read that testmem5 can give u a good idea of what is causing the error depending on the time you got the error. I'm just having a hard time finding the info.


----------



## Betroz

Placekicker19 said:


> Is there a guide or chart for testmem5 that gives you details on what might be the root cause of a error generated at certain times in the test.


From OLDFATSHEEP :


> Tests 1 and 2 do not have too much stress, so basically is the IMC or ring. Tests 3-4 consider mainly tRFC. In test 5 consider the tWRRD or some similar timings. In tests 6-8 add VDIMM increases the stability. Test 9-12 are "Mirrowmove" tests again, haven't figured out how to adjust the timings to pass this, mainly adjust VDIMM, add IO/SA in most cases don't help much.


----------



## D13mass

garyd9 said:


> You have hyper-v or some other hypervisor installed.


Yes, used it for work purpose, will give a try your advice. Thanks!


TheBoom said:


> View attachment 2461021
> 
> 
> phone pic sorry for low quality.


That`s fine, thanks, but why I see 621 for TRFC  could you try to run AIDA64 benchmark for memory?



Placekicker19 said:


> Is there a guide or chart for testmem5


Addition to above comment - could be high temps on ram if it`s heavy test config.


----------



## garyd9

Betroz said:


> From OLDFATSHEEP :


The quoted comment from @OLDFATSHEEP needs context. TM5 is extremely configurable and the meaning of "test 3-4" is different depending on the config used.


----------



## Placekicker19

Betroz said:


> From OLDFATSHEEP :


Thanks.


----------



## D13mass

Don`t understand how training works, I thought than lower block RTL and IOL than are better...
So, as usual: *Memory Fast boot = disabled*, reboot to system and checked speeds, but in this time I have played with IOL block and put 7 - could`nt login, so change back to *Auto *and instead of 








Automatically set








And I have got +5000MB and -5ns


----------



## Placekicker19

I can do 4400 17-17-17-36 with 1.275 on sa/io, 1.490v dimm and im stable in everything. If I try 16-17-17-36 it takes 1.35 of sa/io volts just too get windows to load without a bsod, and thats with 1.55 dimm voltage. Testmem5 errors right after the 5 minute mark. I tested all the way up to 1.39 sa/io which still errors at the 5 minute mark.

How could my imc only need 1.275 on sa/io for 17-17-17-36, but isn't even stable with with 1.39 sa/io for 16-17-17-36? I also tried 4500 with relax timings and that needed a even higher sa/io. Is it possible the ram sticks are just at their limits or can your cpus imc totally crap out going for slightly tighter timing or a slightly higher frequency.


----------



## Imprezzion

Dropping the CL usually doesn't require any more SA/IO. At least, not much. Frequency does way more. This is more likely a problem of either the RAM chip limit or not enough VDIMM. 1.55v doesn't give me 4400C16 either, I need about 1.615v for that.

As for D13mass, are those single rank or dual rank DIMM's? AsRock Timing Configurator only shows the D1 channel RTL/IO but dual rank sticks have 2 RTL/IO channels per stick.

You could be running 63/64/8/8 according to ATC but it could in BIOS be more like 63/68/64/61/8/11/8/9 or whatever wierdness it did on the second channel.

I've seen mine do 60/62/61/64/3/4/3/5 or some wierdness like that plenty of times when setting too high of a Initial / offset or too tight of a tertiary timing lol.


----------



## TheBoom

Placekicker19 said:


> I can do 4400 17-17-17-36 with 1.275 on sa/io, 1.490v dimm and im stable in everything. If I try 16-17-17-36 it takes 1.35 of sa/io volts just too get windows to load without a bsod, and thats with 1.55 dimm voltage. Testmem5 errors right after the 5 minute mark. I tested all the way up to 1.39 sa/io which still errors at the 5 minute mark.
> 
> How could my imc only need 1.275 on sa/io for 17-17-17-36, but isn't even stable with with 1.39 sa/io for 16-17-17-36? I also tried 4500 with relax timings and that needed a even higher sa/io. Is it possible the ram sticks are just at their limits or can your cpus imc totally crap out going for slightly tighter timing or a slightly higher frequency.


Experienced the same thing with my sticks. 4000 cl15, imc wasn’t stable, same with 4200 cl17. It seems like an exponential thing with IO and SA voltages.

For comparison I was running 1.00 IO and 1.05 SA with my old kit of 3200 cl15 and now with the 4000 cl16 I need 1.35 for both at the very minimum.


----------



## TheBoom

D13mass said:


> Don`t understand how training works, I thought than lower block RTL and IOL than are better...
> So, as usual: *Memory Fast boot = disabled*, reboot to system and checked speeds, but in this time I have played with IOL block and put 7 - could`nt login, so change back to *Auto *and instead of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Automatically set
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have got +5000MB and -5ns


I get pretty much the same scores except for read at 59000. I loosened trfc to 621 for some headroom.

Which is weird because I have tighter timings than yours, mostly. And my cache is at 4.8.

Could be RTLs/IOLs making the difference.


----------



## D13mass

Imprezzion said:


> As for D13mass, are those single rank or dual rank DIMM's?


Dual, easy to guess by high TRFC.  Ballistix Sport LT 32GB (2 x 16GB)



TheBoom said:


> Which is weird because I have tighter timings than yours, mostly. And my cache is at 4.8.
> 
> Could be RTLs/IOLs making the difference.


Could be, but I was sure that
69-63/69-*64*/4-8/4-*8* is better than 69-63/69-*65*/4-8/4-*9*
Now I don`t understand how it works.


----------



## Imprezzion

The problem is 69/63. They shouldn't be more than 2 apart for RTL and 1 for IOL. More than that indicates bad training.

Try playing around with the Initials and offsets to level them out. For example for my RTL/IO I run 65/65/1/1 Initials with 26 offset.


----------



## Arctucas

Trying to understand RTL/IOL.

Does this look right?


----------



## Arctucas

DELETED.


----------



## Arctucas

Double post.

Where is the EDIT button?

Found it. Why not where it used to be? New forum layout not so good, not at all.


----------



## erfault

New daily 4300 CL16-17-17-36 1.5v (VCCIO/SA: 1.33v)
Testing out GSkill's latest F4-4266CL17-16GTRGB dual-rank 16gb sticks, seems decent enough, have to test more though.
Also passed 5 cycles of TM5 Ollie... peaked 51/50C on DIMMs in TM5 Ollie; MemTestPro I guess pushes IMC slightly harder so it heated up the area around the socket more, hence 55/54C temps instead.


----------



## munternet

erfault said:


> New daily 4300 CL16-17-17-36 1.5v (VCCIO/SA: 1.33v)
> Testing out GSkill's latest F4-4266CL17-16GTRGB dual-rank 16gb sticks, seems decent enough, have to test more though.
> Also passed 5 cycles of TM5 Ollie... peaked 51/50C on DIMMs in TM5 Ollie; MemTestPro I guess pushes IMC slightly harder so it heated up the area around the socket more, hence 55/54C temps instead.
> View attachment 2460954
> View attachment 2460956


This is almost exactly the same as what I'm settling on with my older 3600c16 sticks, seems to be a good daily.
At vdimm 1.45v 1.3v sa and io but haven't finished testing fully yet
Just waiting for the 3080 Tuf to arrive


----------



## Placekicker19

TheBoom said:


> Experienced the same thing with my sticks. 4000 cl15, imc wasn’t stable, same with 4200 cl17. It seems like an exponential thing with IO and SA voltages.
> 
> For comparison I was running 1.00 IO and 1.05 SA with my old kit of 3200 cl15 and now with the 4000 cl16 I need 1.35 for both at the very minimum.


Thats a large voltage bump only going from 3200 to 4000. I had a 9900k and anything over 1.26 on the sa/io was met with instant bsod's booting into Windows. My current 9900KS can take atleast 1.45sa/1.4 io and remain stable. 

I went ahead and ordered the teamgroup 4500 cl18. I wanted a fast 32gb kit but the z390 dark doesnt play nice with 16x2 dimms. Its seems like the z490 dark does great with 16x2 now, along with other z490's.


----------



## cstkl1

[email protected]
M12E - Bios 098
*
Gskill Trident Z Royal F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB

51|48 - v/f 1.274 LL6
2x16gb 4533 16-17-17-36 @1.55
vccio/vcssa - 1.4/1.35
txp/ppd - 0/0
*










cl16/cl17 stuck at 4500.. hmm trying to figure out this problem. benching all cls at 4600 no issue but stable hmm cl16 easiest.


----------



## TheBoom

D13mass said:


> Could be, but I was sure that
> 69-63/69-*64*/4-8/4-*8* is better than 69-63/69-*65*/4-8/4-*9*
> Now I don`t understand how it works.


Yeah they're weird with dual rank kits. Even round trip latency enabled was giving me values all over the place. I just settled for something stable in between.



Imprezzion said:


> The problem is 69/63. They shouldn't be more than 2 apart for RTL and 1 for IOL. More than that indicates bad training.
> Try playing around with the Initials and offsets to level them out. For example for my RTL/IO I run 65/65/1/1 Initials with 26 offset.


Pretty sure those are empty slots. He has 2x16gb, so probably 63 and 65 are dimm slots not in use.


----------



## D13mass

Imprezzion said:


> Try playing around with the Initials and offsets to level them out. For example for my RTL/IO I run 65/65/1/1 Initials with 26 offset.


Not sure how to setup it on MSI board, when I see 1 for any IO it`s 100% Asus board.


Imprezzion said:


> The problem is 69/63. They shouldn't be more than 2 apart for RTL and 1 for IOL.


I have installed 2 sticks in 2 and 4 slots, that`s reason why first always 69 - it doesn`t matter (if I`m not mistaken) and between 65 and 63 difference exactly 2 and 1 for IOL 8 and 9.


----------



## Arctucas

Placekicker19 said:


> Thats a large voltage bump only going from 3200 to 4000. I had a 9900k and anything over 1.26 on the sa/io was met with instant bsod's booting into Windows. My current 9900KS can take atleast 1.45sa/1.4 io and remain stable.
> 
> I went ahead and ordered the teamgroup 4500 cl18. I wanted a fast 32gb kit but the z390 dark doesnt play nice with 16x2 dimms. Its seems like the z490 dark does great with 16x2 now, along with other z490's.


I cannot get *any* OC on my 2x16 4000MHz kit on my Z390 Dark either. Tighter timings are the only improvement, which is not a lot.

2x8 kits go to 4500MHz easy.


----------



## Placekicker19

Arctucas said:


> I cannot get *any* OC on my 2x16 4000MHz kit on my Z390 Dark either. Tighter timings are the only improvement, which is not a lot.
> 
> 2x8 kits go to 4500MHz easy.


I wonder what changed with the z490 dark, its so similar to the evga z390 dark but clocks 2x16 sticks with ease.

One thing I noticed about rtls/iols on the z390 dark is they will NOT train if they both match, there has to be atleast a 1 offset on either the RTL or IOL.
63/69 7/4 , 63/69 6/4, will train but, 63/69 6/4 , 63/69 6/4 will not work .
63/69 6/4 , 62/69 6/4 works also.


----------



## cstkl1

Placekicker19 said:


> I wonder what changed with the z490 dark, its so similar to the evga z390 dark but clocks 2x16 sticks with ease.
> 
> One thing I noticed about rtls/iols on the z390 dark is they will NOT train if they both match, there has to be atleast a 1 offset on either the RTL or IOL.
> 63/69 7/4 , 63/69 6/4, will train but, 63/69 6/4 , 63/69 6/4 will not work .
> 63/69 6/4 , 62/69 6/4 works also.


when u got time to reverse engineer other boards. sure the z490 dark great. 
but kindda late right

also where the forum for these z490 dark oc ram stable resuly. cant find them. planning to ditch m12e.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

when your rtls are bad that also means imc is almost at the limit and it aint going to play nice lol if you change a setting it will change rtls with it as well..

i manage to recognize all 4 sticks finally @ 4200 on the 7940x he started at 69/71/69/71 swap the cmd rate to get her to boot to 2t and recognized all modules instead of dropping 1 like she always do @ 19s then she booted gave me 69/71/69/71 changed primarys and nothing else to 16s it dropped to 63/65/63/65 4200 was too much for the 7940x it dont even load the os without error it out solved a problem of her dropping one stick just to get stuck in imc limit


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> when your rtls are bad that also means imc is almost at the limit and it aint going to play nice lol if you change a setting it will change rtls with it as well..


So if I know that my CPU has a weak IMC, then setting RTL manually higher will help the IMC? So instead of 4266 with low RTL (61), it is actually better to run 4400 with RTL of say 67?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> So if I know that my CPU has a weak IMC, then setting RTL manually higher will help the IMC? So instead of 4266 with low RTL (61), it is actually better to run 4400 with RTL of say 67?


you can try to force her to train like i did.. thats not a guaranteed that it going to play nice in the long run..

you also have to understand that z490 for example you are in that wall of 33-35ns theres nothing else to scratch out of that pot everything else is just variance... thats why i was laughing my ass where i saw this video yesterday




 when he pull the first 2 boards and the kit and the hopes of him lol

same as ryzen with this 5ghz benches on ram...
literally you are not running at the speed.. you been limited by their own imc/chipset the "puter" would think is at 5000mhz ram but in reality you aint getting 5000mhz ram performance..

I get the same scores @ 4000 @ 16s than 4000 @ 14s it shouldnt be like that but it is lol bcuz of the mesh.. only improvement i would see if i manage to boot them @ 4200 like on a my 7980xe and you see her running [email protected] it barely scratch the pot or wathever is left in there.. is between variance.. So literally you killing yourself for nothing as the 4700-4800-4900 it aint giving you nothing else other than a variance lol

So that handicap only benefit you as the ram aint running at their full potential.. lol
Only thing you can do is to increase the FSB and you know whats going to happen there if you go to crazy on it..

Anything else you see different in lets say in mobo manufacturers VS's 5%-o+ is depending of mobo/traces imc what run there when you click aida bench lol or how snappy is the system nothing with the ram overclock lol


----------



## Imprezzion

Aww. That's a real shame. I'm not familiar with that chipset btw but does it support i9 99xx XE 2066 CPU's? Might be able to snag one on eBay or whatever if they have a better IMC?

I got bored working at home and went for a little YOLO voltages test to see what the 10900KF can actually do frequency wise. 4700 does boot and benches AIDA but TM5 throws 50 errors in 10 minutes no matter the timings and voltages so that's a no-go.

However... I did get 4533 to run TM5 for 30 minutes so far still no errors lol. That is at 18-20-20-40-400-2T with auto subtimings and RTL/IO tho and a whopping 1.50v SA 1.44v IO 1.60v DRAM and 1.35v vCore just to be sure. 

I will let it run to a full hour then try to drop the timings a bit and see what happens but it seems like 4533 is somewhat attainable.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

my 7980xe do 4200 and it shows a bit of improvement at 4200.... my 7940x dont... this is actually the first time i managed to get him to boot @ 4200 without dropping 1 of the sticks out of the 4 just to get stuck in that imc wall.. My 7980xe it have a better imc in that regards..


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, i can get away with 4533 on my 10900KF so it seems. Voltages are higher then i'd be comfortable running but i see people running way more then this as well so.. don't know if i should chase this or not.

I'll check if I can get 4600 to run with the same base primaries. Not touching secondary / tertiary / RTL/IO until i know I can run the frequency at all. All I did was disable PPD and 32000 tREFI.

If 4600 works or if it doesn't i'll go for 4533 dropping to 17-19-19-39-400 and so forth until i find the point in which it won't run anymore and see if I can get close to the 36.7ns latency i had on 4200C15. If I can get under 38ns latency it would be worth it for the higher bandwidth. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth all the extra voltage. Right now with auto timings it's at like 40.2ns so..


----------



## zGunBLADEz

you see practically no difference when it should be one specially dropping from 16 all straight down to 14s the difference in numbers in reality is a wash and is just 

look what happen when i play with the FSB which increase cpu/mesh and a bit of ram overclock wathever you cant achieve on a regular setting from bios.. This is the spoon to scratch for real wathever is left to scratch lol and even that still a wash vs stability if you ask me

















its a placebo its between variance lol you get to that point where a FSB/CACHE and MoBo brand as well etc.. is the only determinating factor of the ram overclock and its between variance theres no more magic sauce after that.. sad reality when you spent hrs crunching tests lol me i just like doing them


----------



## zGunBLADEz

this one for the sake of the on topic dropped my ram to 3600 @ 16s vs 14s vs 12s























my question is.. is it worth the headache? no it certainly not 
do not confuse my post with a LN2 run or suicide..


----------



## Imprezzion

That's what I'm kinda afraid if right now running 1.50v SA and 1.44v IO.. how suicidal is that on a 10900KF... I mean, it's stable for now and temps are well in check it being water-cooled and all but..

I am on 4533 17-19-19-39-400-2T now and it also seems to run that. 30 minutes into TM5, no errors yet.


----------



## Placekicker19

cstkl1 said:


> when u got time to reverse engineer other boards. sure the z490 dark great.
> but kindda late right
> 
> also where the forum for these z490 dark oc ram stable resuly. cant find them. planning to ditch m12e.


Check out Luumi on youtube, he covers the evga dark in great detail.





Yeah it sucks the evga z490 dark came out so late. I love my z390 dark, I had a gigabyte z390 aorus ultra and a msi z390 meg ace but after getting the dark ill only buy enthusiast boards for now on.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Imprezzion said:


> That's what I'm kinda afraid if right now running 1.50v SA and 1.44v IO.. how suicidal is that on a 10900KF... I mean, it's stable for now and temps are well in check it being water-cooled and all but..
> 
> I am on 4533 17-19-19-39-400-2T now and it also seems to run that. 30 minutes into TM5, no errors yet.


well you are the one that has the final say sometimes a little percent more requieres alot of voltage i bet you wouldnt be doing that on the cpu 

nasty little fellas


----------



## Placekicker19

Imprezzion said:


> That's what I'm kinda afraid if right now running 1.50v SA and 1.44v IO.. how suicidal is that on a 10900KF... I mean, it's stable for now and temps are well in check it being water-cooled and all but..
> 
> I am on 4533 17-19-19-39-400-2T now and it also seems to run that. 30 minutes into TM5, no errors yet.


I saw some posts from a guy with a apex x with 8086k and had been running 1.6v sa and i think 1.5v io for 2 years and he claimed his chip hasnt degraded at all. I'll see if i can find the forum. XMP profiles ship with super high sa/io voltages so I'm sure the chips can handle it.


----------



## cstkl1

Placekicker19 said:


> Check out Luumi on youtube, he covers the evga dark in great detail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it sucks the evga z490 dark came out so late. I love my z390 dark, I had a gigabyte z390 aorus ultra and a msi z390 meg ace but after getting the dark ill only buy enthusiast boards for now on.


Err he covered nothing in detail. Nothing

dual ranks are getting more performance because of combination of tccd 4/7 and because its daisy chain _dr doesnt affect the imc as much as _dd compared to 4dimm

In short its Like a 4 dimm oc on a 2dimm slot on daisy chain that wont affect imc..
done.

What is so hard to say this one - two liner liner??


----------



## cstkl1

This the video you meany. Yup pretty good


----------



## cstkl1

Terrible ram ocer though or he not disclosing


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> That's what I'm kinda afraid if right now running 1.50v SA and 1.44v IO.. how suicidal is that on a 10900KF... I mean, it's stable for now and temps are well in check it being water-cooled and all but..
> 
> I am on 4533 17-19-19-39-400-2T now and it also seems to run that. 30 minutes into TM5, no errors yet.


Dude if intel spec for the low tdp cpu max has max vcssa of 1.52v...

and Intel just didnt state Max for high tdp 8/10 core..

imagine those low tdp Power saving cpu ones calling us “*****” or “Chicken”
Lol.


----------



## YoungChris

Z490 Dark owner here. Newest bios (1.07) significantly improves memory overclocking with 2x16.
Some comparison screens:















Daily OC with 2x16 coming whenever I get around to it.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, at 4500 the room in the RTL/IO department is gone. Where I can run 60/62/3/3 on 4200 it's more like 70/70/7/6 now lol. Quite a difference for just 300Mhz.

Oh, and my windows just broke. Boot manager is completely gone. Must've been a tad too unstable lol.


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> my question is.. is it worth the headache?


Well I would try to get latency at 50ns if I had X299. So 4000 C16 would be good. Same as @Nizzen in here runs I believe on his X299 setup.


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> Well I would try to get latency at 50ns if I had X299. So 4000 C16 would be good. Same as @Nizzen in here runs I believe on his X299 setup.


Yes 4000c16 on Apex x299. 49-50ns memorylatency. 122-123GB/s read in Aida


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> Well I would try to get latency at 50ns if I had X299. So 4000 C16 would be good. Same as @Nizzen in here runs I believe on his X299 setup.


His dont get close to mine xD..

just saying what if scenario


--------
Intel state by spec a voltage not amps xD that intel x spec is with vdroop on it as well.


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah well, 4500 worked fine but as soon as I touched any of the secondaries it went mental and broke my bootloader. The IMC or DIMM's just really do not wanna run 4500. I can do it stable but timings have to be so loose it's slower then 4200 C15.

I'm giving it one more hail mary on 4400 16-18-18 with tight secondaries but if that crash and burns I'm going back to 4200 lol.


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> His dont get close to mine xD..
> 
> just saying what if scenario
> 
> 
> --------
> Intel state by spec a voltage not amps xD that intel x spec is with vdroop on it as well.


Don't worry, I'm just running 24/7 settings on my workstation


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
z490 using four sticks not sure I ever got below 42 latency lol


----------



## TheBoom

How do you oc fsb on z490? Only by bclk I suppose?


----------



## ThrashZone

TheBoom said:


> How do you oc fsb on z490? Only by bclk I suppose?


Hi,
Past a point blk will screw up internet.


----------



## TheBoom

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Past a point blk will screw up internet.


Yeah it screws up more than just the internet. I’ve had weird stuff happen with my old 6700k at anything past 105 bclk. Random usb disconnects and audio issues as well.

Not sure if it’s something worth doing these days.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> That's what I'm kinda afraid if right now running 1.50v SA and 1.44v IO.. how suicidal is that on a 10900KF... I mean, it's stable for now and temps are well in check it being water-cooled and all but..
> 
> I am on 4533 17-19-19-39-400-2T now and it also seems to run that. 30 minutes into TM5, no errors yet.


Have you tried GSAT?
I was running TM5 for an hour extreme on 4533c18 but errored in GSAT pretty quick
My sticks are older and don't scale well with voltage so volts are lower
Just curious


----------



## Betroz

It's really stupid that we "must" run several different memory stress programs to vertify our settings! One test will pass, another fail at the same settings. I mean, what do these guys do they who code these apps... Ohh and then it's the CPU : Prime95 at 80k, 112k, 1344k or whatever FFT..AVX or non-avx.... Linpack, AIDA64 stresstest, Realbench, Blender, Cinebench and bla bla bla...


----------



## Imprezzion

That's a no. 4400 with any form of acceptable secondaries goes ballistic as well. Mind you, I can run 4400 or even 4600 just fine but I trade like 3ns latency because the RTL and secondaries need to be way way looser for 5GB/s more bandwidth. Like I need that lol. I'd rather have an as low as possible latency I guess for strictly gaming? 

I think I'm about tweaked out with this memory kit .


----------



## SunnyStefan

I've made some progress with overclocking my G.Skill Trident Z Neo *16gb x 2* 3600 MHz 16-16-16-36-2T kit, I've tightened most timings as far as they will go with the current voltage values. A few timings can be tightened additionally while maintaining system stability, but I wasn't seeing further improvements in AIDA so I left them "loose".

Current daily values are as follows:

*4266 MHz 16-17-17-32-2T*
• VDIMM: 1.535 V
• VCCIO: 1.360 V
• VCSSA: 1.370 V

The peak DIMM temperature recorded while stress testing was 49 °C. VDIMM, VCCIO, & VCSSA may be able to be lowered _a bit_ further, but not by much. I'd rather chase higher frequencies before lowering voltage values anyways . In addition to passing the stress tests in the image, this setup has proven stable for many hours while playing Escape From Tarkov.


----------



## eeeven

cstkl1 said:


> [email protected]
> M12E - Bios 098
> 
> *Gskill Trident Z Royal F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
> 
> 51|48 - v/f 1.274 LL6
> 2x16gb 4533 16-17-17-36 @1.55
> vccio/vcssa - 1.4/1.35
> txp/ppd - 0/0*
> 
> cl16/cl17 stuck at 4500.. hmm trying to figure out this problem. benching all cls at 4600 no issue but stable hmm cl16 easiest.


Having the same issue on XII Apex with CL17 - 4500 CL16 stable but CL17 not. GSAT throwing hundrets of errors with CL17. 4500 CL16 is running. We investigated this Problem for weeks now with no solution at all. It seems this is a Mainboard related issue. Some og XII Apex can Run 4600 CL17 no Problem - some not. i even tried 3 different CPUs now.


----------



## Placekicker19

cstkl1 said:


> Err he covered nothing in detail. Nothing
> 
> dual ranks are getting more performance because of combination of tccd 4/7 and because its daisy chain _dr doesnt affect the imc as much as _dd compared to 4dimm
> 
> In short its Like a 4 dimm oc on a 2dimm slot on daisy chain that wont affect imc..
> done.
> 
> What is so hard to say this one - two liner liner??


The entire point was the z390 dark did terrible with 2x16 dimms and the z490 dark is greatly improved.
Do you have z490 dark, or are you thinking about getting one?
Theres just not much info on the z490 dark right now but Luumi might be able to provide you with more info if you send him a message on youtube or wherever.


----------



## Placekicker19

cstkl1 said:


> This the video you meany. Yup pretty good


Yeah hes got some great videos covers the darks. The other video was to just show you z490 dark is now capable with 2x16 dimms.


----------



## cstkl1

eeeven said:


> Having the same issue on XII Apex with CL17 - 4500 CL16 stable but CL17 not. GSAT throwing hundrets of errors with CL17. 4500 CL16 is running. We investigated this Problem for weeks now with no solution at all. It seems this is a Mainboard related issue. Some og XII Apex can Run 4600 CL17 no Problem - some not. i even tried 3 different CPUs now.


actually i know the problem.

i get 3 errors on tm5 for 1.5v 17-17-17-37 @4533
4500 passes inconsistently
[email protected]
4533 goes baling ballistic
4500 inconsistent

rtl/iol i solved the issue.
found the first problem with 4533 vs 4500 on twr.
that kindda made sense y cl17/cl18 inconsistent ones dont do well

low twcl 8,9,10 seems to fair better but these normally will have issues with FFT112

will solve this. now trying to get 4533c16 to pass fft112. this is not easy


----------



## cstkl1

Placekicker19 said:


> The entire point was the z390 dark did terrible with 2x16 dimms and the z490 dark is greatly improved.
> Do you have z490 dark, or are you thinking about getting one?
> Theres just not much info on the z490 dark right now but Luumi might be able to provide you with more info if you send him a message on youtube or wherever.


saw a few flaws on ram timing options. 
hmmm
its betwewn apex and dark. apex i fear if inherited the same vrm for cpu oc as formula. i noticed its inferior to m12e


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> It's really stupid that we "must" run several different memory stress programs to vertify our settings! One test will pass, another fail at the same settings. I mean, what do these guys do they who code these apps... Ohh and then it's the CPU : Prime95 at 80k, 112k, 1344k or whatever FFT..AVX or non-avx.... Linpack, AIDA64 stresstest, Realbench, Blender, Cinebench and bla bla bla...


because its at a point where cpu stability comes at play bro.

4400 theres a lot pf combination for twcl

vccio/vcssa i am now at 1.35/1.3v which passed 4 hrs [email protected]

4500-4533 this is just another set if issue


----------



## munternet

I think this is about my best most comfortable overclock for daily
Also tested with BFV for many days and 1/2 hour Realbench
I also converted a 5GB .mkv file to mp4 with VLC player which can find weakness when Realbench doesn't
GSAT really exposes any instability with these 2*16GB DR B-Die sticks
Will probably stay with this until a new bios is released for the M12A


----------



## TheBoom

So did a quick test with bclk 104.5 and it seems apart from the small gains from 40mhz of memory (4000 vs 4040), there was pretty much no difference in memory and cache bench in Aida. Read and write went up maybe 200-300 and latency saw no improvement.

Guess it’s not worth touching bclk period.


----------



## Imprezzion

I did do it on Z390 as that was the only way to get the Z390 Ace to boot DR 2x16GB above 3800 so I ran 104.12 bclk at 3800 divider for 3850 effective. But on Z490 there's no point in it. 

I did manage to get my tRDWR even lower, at 9 now, but I can't seem to get any progress on tWRRD_sg/dg which have a pretty big impact on performance as tWTR_L/S are tied to this timing. 
Anyone know of any trick or specific setting to get it to go lower? I'm at 28/26 now and i used to run like, 24/19 on 2x8GB SR sticks but these just fail to POST at all at ANY setting under 28/26..


----------



## TheBoom

Imprezzion said:


> I did do it on Z390 as that was the only way to get the Z390 Ace to boot DR 2x16GB above 3800 so I ran 104.12 bclk at 3800 divider for 3850 effective. But on Z490 there's no point in it.
> 
> I did manage to get my tRDWR even lower, at 9 now, but I can't seem to get any progress on tWRRD_sg/dg which have a pretty big impact on performance as tWTR_L/S are tied to this timing.
> Anyone know of any trick or specific setting to get it to go lower? I'm at 28/26 now and i used to run like, 24/19 on 2x8GB SR sticks but these just fail to POST at all at ANY setting under 28/26..
> 
> View attachment 2461229


Same. Anything under 28/26 was unstable. Min twtr I could get stable was 6/4.


----------



## eeeven

cstkl1 said:


> actually i know the problem.
> 
> i get 3 errors on tm5 for 1.5v 17-17-17-37 @4533
> 4500 passes inconsistently
> [email protected]
> 4533 goes baling ballistic
> 4500 inconsistent
> 
> rtl/iol i solved the issue.
> found the first problem with 4533 vs 4500 on twr.
> that kindda made sense y cl17/cl18 inconsistent ones dont do well
> 
> low twcl 8,9,10 seems to fair better but these normally will have issues with FFT112
> 
> will solve this. now trying to get 4533c16 to pass fft112. this is not easy


So what was the Problem with tWR and RTL/IOL? i can run 4500 17-18-18-32-320 MemTest/RamTest with No Problem butz GSAT is Throwing tons of Errors. 4500 16-18-18 GSAT is running with no Error but my Sticks need too much Voltage for that Setting.


----------



## cstkl1

eeeven said:


> So what was the Problem with tWR and RTL/IOL? i can run 4500 17-18-18-32-320 MemTest/RamTest with No Problem butz GSAT is Throwing tons of Errors. 4500 16-18-18 GSAT is running with no Error but my Sticks need too much Voltage for that Setting.


math. the difference is math.
rtl/iol was easy to solve. 09x ahem cough cough bios has a hmm cough cough option to show the problem on this but not 098 is good enough

gsat. err again some know my stand on it is akin a joke program. good enough for main timings only.

hci more for all round with cache
tm5 for quick test on vdimm/main timings.. general
fft112 da killer. you got to be stable cpu, vccio,vcssa and ram

4400 afaik only i have posted .. rather than posting more of this

4533 hmm this aint easy on fft112...

if you can do 4500 u can do 4533
if u cant your 4500 is unstable.
timings are the same. only diff is 4533 is using proper multiplier and not odd one.

4533 is where the problem starts for cl17/cl18... twcl 13 seems easiest but that poses few issue.

will pm you later bro the math. 
whats odd is what i see with this kit on 4500-4533 happens to the 4266kit @4400

i wonder is it a vdimm range issue..


----------



## cstkl1

one the common check. try running cke 1. if your stability is getting affected then it was nvr stable.


----------



## 638220

[email protected] Turbo, ring to core enabled [email protected] 1300%+ HCImemtest


----------



## Placekicker19

I've been testing the teamgroup 4500 cl18 dimms. They run 4267 17-17-17 36 tight secondaries, tertiary, rtls and only require 1.4v dimm for stability. My 4400 bin gskills and patriots wont even boot into windows with 1.4. The gskills required 1.45 and the patriots required 1.470 at same timings for stability.

XMP trained without issue. I couldn't get the patriots to train @ 4500 no matter what voltage combination and the gskills would train but required much higher voltage. Its looking like the team groups are alot better bin. Now to fight the urge to buy a z490 and 10900k. I would just hate getting a 10900k that wasnt a good clocker because my 9900ks does 5.2ghz with 1.305v and 4400 c17 ,and 5.4ghz with 1.45v. If I could get a 5.5ghz 10900k I would do it, but I know its a top 3% chip and very rare.


----------



## Placekicker19

blacknbigger212 said:


> [email protected] Turbo, ring to core enabled [email protected] 1300%+ HCImemtest
> View attachment 2461233
> 
> View attachment 2461234


Nice , what dimms are you using ? Are you direct die cooling?


----------



## 638220

Placekicker19 said:


> I've been testing the teamgroup 4500 cl18 dimms. They run 4267 17-17-17 36 tight secondaries, tertiary, rtls and only require 1.4v dimm for stability. My 4400 bin gskills and patriots wont even boot into windows with 1.4. The gskills required 1.45 and the patriots required 1.470 at same timings for stability.
> 
> XMP trained without issue. I couldn't get the patriots to train @ 4500 no matter what voltage combination and the gskills would train but required much higher voltage. Its looking like the team groups are alot better bin. Now to fight the urge to buy a z490 and 10900k. I would just hate getting a 10900k that wasnt a good clocker because my 9900ks does 5.2ghz with 1.305v and 4400 c17 ,and 5.4ghz with 1.45v. If I could get a 5.5ghz 10900k I would do it, but I know its a top 3% chip and very rare.





Placekicker19 said:


> Nice , what dimms are you using ?


Gskill trident z rgb 4x8gb 17-17-17-37 1.35v 4000mhz ram kit. Bios set values: 1.5v/vdimm and 1.3v/sa-io. They aren't on the z390 aorus master qvl list but they perform extremely well. Very happy with these dimms. Would love to test two sets of the new gskill 2x8gb 17-18-18-38 4400mhz kits coming out on this board. 4x16gb must be crazzzzzy


----------



## Placekicker19

blacknbigger212 said:


> Gskill trident z rgb 4x8gb 17-17-17-37 4000 ram kit. Bios set values: 1.5v/vdimm and 1.3v/sa-io.


Very nice, does your cpu run at 5.3ghz with all cores loaded , or is it 5.05ghz all core boost? 
What kind of cooling do you have?


----------



## 638220

Placekicker19 said:


> Very nice, does your cpu run at 5.3ghz with all cores loaded , or is it 5.05ghz all core boost?
> What kind of cooling do you have?


5.05ghz is 8c workloads, 5.35ghz is 1c/2c workloads, 5.25ghz is 3c workloads and 5.15ghz is 4c/5c workloads. i'm on a 350mm aio w/ liquid metal between the ihs and copper cold plate and a 140mm fan over the vrms and 120mm fan over the ram, can't afford custom water cooling unfortunately or i would, rgb hard tubing watercooling setups really get me going.


----------



## Placekicker19

Is it possible for a motherboard to overvolt dimm, sa ,and io voltages? I've noticed i have higher readings in hwinfo compared to what voltages are set in the bios. 
Is this just hwinfo not reading voltage accurately? I think i might have to dig out my volt meter and do some testing.


----------



## 638220

Placekicker19 said:


> Is it possible for a motherboard to overvolt dimm, sa ,and io voltages? I've noticed i have higher readings in hwinfo compared to what voltages are set in the bios.
> Is this just hwinfo not reading voltage accurately? I think i might have to dig out my volt meter and do some testing.


It's possible, from my hwinfo64 readings, it looks like voltage fluctuates a bit. If you take a look at sa voltage in the screenshot, it goes up to 1.32v sometimes even though bios set is 1.3v. Same with vdimm, bios set is 1.5v but sometimes it goes up to 1.512v in hwinfo64. Couldn't tell you if the hwinfo64 reading is accurate though, don't have a volt meter. Could be the motherboard, could be a leaky cpu. Not worried about it though.


----------



## Placekicker19

blacknbigger212 said:


> 5.05ghz is 8c workloads, 5.35ghz is 1c/2c workloads, 5.25ghz is 3c workloads and 5.15ghz is 4c/5c workloads. i'm on a 350mm aio w/ liquid metal between the ihs and copper cold plate and a 140mm fan over the vrms and 120mm fan over the ram, can't afford custom water cooling unfortunately or i would, rgb hard tubing watercooling setups really get me going.


Gotcha, did 5ghz cache require more cpu vcore. With 4400mhz c17 and 4.9ghz cache i would error in memtest at 20% coverage using a vcore of 1.280v. It took uping vcore to 1.305v to pass memtest without error.


----------



## Placekicker19

blacknbigger212 said:


> It's possible, from my hwinfo64 readings, it looks like voltage fluctuates a bit. If you take a look at sa voltage in the screenshot, it goes up to 1.32v sometimes even though bios set is 1.3v. Same with vdimm, bios set is 1.5v but sometimes it goes up to 1.512v in hwinfo64. Couldn't tell you if the hwinfo64 reading is accurate though, don't have a volt meter. Could be the motherboard, could be a leaky cpu. Not worried about it though.


Mine does the same thing , 1.5 in bios reads 1.512 in hwinfo . io voltage reads higher than any other voltage in hwinfo for me . The dark has easy voltage measure points, ill look for my volt meter to test it .


----------



## 638220

Placekicker19 said:


> Gotcha, did 5ghz cache require more cpu vcore. With 4400mhz c17 and 4.9ghz cache i would error in memtest at 20% coverage using a vcore of 1.280v. It took uping vcore to 1.305v to pass memtest without error.


I'm using ring to core enabled in the bios. It scales the cache at 300mhz behind whatever the current workload is. So for example, if the workload demands 8cores then the cache is automatically adjusted to 4.75ghz and the voltage follows suit. For 1c/2c workloads at 5.35ghz, the cache scales up to 5.05ghz and voltage follows suit. If i just did a regular all core OC, I only need 100mv offset with normal vcore llc and powersaving acdc loadline preset, with the turbo ratio oc I need 150mv offset to account for the higher turbo core/cache ratios, but both ocs use the same amount of volts under load for 8c workloads because ring to core + dynamic voltage adjusts the voltage as needed so that i'm never using more voltage than I need to under load.


----------



## Placekicker19

M


blacknbigger212 said:


> I'm using ring to core enabled in the bios. It scales the cache at 300mhz behind whatever the current workload is. So for example, if the workload demands 8cores then the cache is automatically adjusted to 4.75ghz and the voltage follows suit. For 1c/2c workloads at 5.35ghz, the cache scales up to 5.05ghz and voltage follows suit. If i just did a regular all core OC, I only need 100mv offset with normal vcore llc and powersaving acdc loadline preset, with the turbo ratio oc I need 150mv offset to account for the higher turbo ratios, but both ocs use the same amount of volts under load for 8c workloads because ring to core + dynamic voltage adjusts the voltage as needed so that i'm never using more voltage that I need to under load.


Ok I got you, ive never overclocked with a offset, my cpu is locked at 5.2ghz 1.305v , its not bad though idle around 26 or 27c. I read the z390 dark doesnt do well trying to oc using a offset. Its missing alot of the the important ac/dc loadline settings.


----------



## Salve1412

So it looks like Prime95 112k AVX disabled is the real stability challenge. After passing 4hour GSAT, 8 hours HCI Memtest, TestMem5 Anta Extreme 3 iterations and Ollie 20 iterations, I still kept on getting random fatal errors in Prime. I had to raise not only VCCIO and VCCSA, but also V/F offset: in fact more Vcore seemed to have a greater impact on stability than raising VCCIO/VCCSA. At least after adjusting voltages it seems I can pass 2 hours without errors with my 4400MHz overclock:






:






.


----------



## 638220

Placekicker19 said:


> M
> 
> Ok I got you, ive never overclocked with a offset, my cpu is locked at 5.2ghz 1.305v , its not bad though idle around 26 or 27c. I read the z390 dark doesnt do well trying to oc using a offset. Its missing alot of the the important ac/dc loadline settings.


Weird, you were able to quote my post even though the post you quoted is "awaiting moderator approval and invisible to normal users" and doesn't show up when i'm logged out lol. What's that all about?




Salve1412 said:


> So it looks like Prime95 112k AVX disabled is the real stability challenge. After passing 4hour GSAT, 8 hours HCI Memtest, TestMem5 Anta Extreme 3 iterations and Ollie 20 iterations, I still kept on getting random fatal errors in Prime. I had to raise not only VCCIO and VCCSA, but also V/F offset: in fact more Vcore seemed to have a greater impact on stability than raising VCCIO/VCCSA. At least after adjusting voltages it seems I can pass 2 hours without errors with my 4400MHz overclock:
> View attachment 2461237
> :
> View attachment 2461236
> .


Is it? I always thought linpack extreme was the real stability challenge, getting all those residuals match n what not. Buildzoid was able to do prime95 for hours but couldn't get all his residuals to match in linpack.


----------



## Placekicker19

Salve1412 said:


> So it looks like Prime95 112k AVX disabled is the real stability challenge. After passing 4hour GSAT, 8 hours HCI Memtest, TestMem5 Anta Extreme 3 iterations and Ollie 20 iterations, I still kept on getting random fatal errors in Prime. I had to raise not only VCCIO and VCCSA, but also V/F offset: in fact more Vcore seemed to have a greater impact on stability than raising VCCIO/VCCSA. At least after adjusting voltages it seems I can pass 2 hours without errors with my 4400MHz overclock:
> View attachment 2461237
> :
> View attachment 2461236
> .


What was your sa/io voltage before you raised it? Vcore also had a huge impact on stability for me too when pushing high ram clocks.


----------



## Placekicker19

blacknbigger212 said:


> Weird, you were able to quote my post even though the post you quoted is "awaiting moderator approval and invisible to normal users" and doesn't show up when i'm logged out lol. What's that all about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it? I always thought linpack extreme was the real stability challenge, getting all those residuals match n what not. Buildzoid was able to do prime95 for hours but couldn't get all his residuals to match in linpack.


Maybe im from the future ,
Jk


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> one the common check. try running cke 1. if your stability is getting affected then it was nvr stable.


What is the performance difference of running tCKE at 1 instead of 6?


----------



## Salve1412

blacknbigger212 said:


> Is it? I always thought linpack extreme was the real stability challenge, getting all those residuals match n what not. Buildzoid was able to do prime95 for hours but couldn't get all his residuals to match in linpack.


Yeah, sorry, I was considering tests for checking overclocked RAM stability that are still doable without being extreme power viruses, at least with a 10900K at 5.1-10Core/4.8-Cache: I can't run Linpack with my current cooling solution. Guess I really can't tell if I would pass it or not 






Placekicker19 said:


> What was your sa/io voltage before you raised it? Vcore also had a huge impact on stability for me too when pushing high ram clocks.


VCCIO was raised from 1.19 to 1.22, VCCSA from 1.24 to 1.245, but the most relevant increase was in V/F editor: for 5.1 (LLC5) I had to raise the offset from +0.011 to +0.020.


----------



## 638220

Salve1412 said:


> Yeah, sorry, I was considering tests for checking overclocked RAM stability that are still doable without being extreme power viruses, at least with a 10900K at 5.1-10Core/4.8-Cache: I can't run Linpack with my current cooling solution. Guess I really can't tell if I would pass it or not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCCIO was raised from 1.19 to 1.22, VCCSA from 1.24 to 1.245, but the most relevant increase was in V/F editor: for 5.1 (LLC5) I had to raise the offset from +0.011 to +0.020.


You could try OCCT - Large data set with av2 enabled. I use it for overclocks that I can't keep cool enough for linpack extreme. I can only keep my cpu cool enough to get matching residuals in linpack up to 4.9ghz all core. For everything beyond that I use occt large avx2. So what I do is test the memory OC first at around 4.9ghz all core below in linpack to make sure the calculations are good, then i'll run it through occt large avx2 at the increased all core frequency and then hcimemtest. I think one would have to have a chip that scales really well with voltage + custom water cooling + direct die w/possible die shaving to run 5.1ghz+ through linpack with all matching residuals. Buildzoid was doing 5.05ghz on a 10700k with 3633mhz ram at 1.3v vrout with a waterblock(i think) and was still hitting 100c in linpack. I think that's why his residuals didn't match. Or maybe he just needs another 10mv or 20mv volts, who knows.

You could just try to run linpack at a lower all core with the appropriate voltage that your cooling can handle to see if your ram oc calculations/residuals match. Because if you can't pass it with your ram OC at a lower all core with less voltage that your cooling can handle, then it definitely isn't stable.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> What is the performance difference of running tCKE at 1 instead of 6?


nohitng zip.. bupkus but generally if it matters normally stability not as stable as you hope for...


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> nohitng zip.. bupkus but generally if it matters normally stability not as stable as you hope for...


Ahh so no better performance, just adds more instability


----------



## Falkentyne

Betroz said:


> Ahh so no better performance, just adds more instability


Just do what @Imprezzion did and destroy your boot sector


----------



## TheBoom

blacknbigger212 said:


> You could try OCCT - Large data set with av2 enabled. I use it for overclocks that I can't keep cool enough for linpack extreme. I can only keep my cpu cool enough to get matching residuals in linpack up to 4.9ghz all core. For everything beyond that I use occt large avx2. So what I do is test the memory OC first at around 4.9ghz all core below in linpack to make sure the calculations are good, then i'll run it through occt large avx2 at the increased all core frequency and then hcimemtest. I think one would have to have a chip that scales really well with voltage + custom water cooling + direct die w/possible die shaving to run 5.1ghz+ through linpack with all matching residuals. Buildzoid was doing 5.05ghz on a 10700k with 3633mhz ram at 1.3v vrout with a waterblock(i think) and was still hitting 100c in linpack. I think that's why his residuals didn't match. Or maybe he just needs another 10mv or 20mv volts, who knows.
> 
> You could just try to run linpack at a lower all core with the appropriate voltage that your cooling can handle to see if your ram oc calculations/residuals match. Because if you can't pass it with your ram OC at a lower all core with less voltage that your cooling can handle, then it definitely isn't stable.
> 
> But yeah on the topic of custom watercooling. It ain't worth the price for the gains you get over an AIO/CLC that costs 200 or less. If i were to get custom watercooling, maybe I get an extra 100mhz all core? For what? 400-500 dollars in upfront costs? Talk about a bad deal. Then you gotta pay money for coolant every so often, maintenance etc. I gotta say though, A tricked out custom watercooling hardtube loop looks dope as hell though, especially with those rgb hardtube fittings and a pearlescent coolant. Why does that stuff cost so much again?


Getting residuals to match in linpack is getting vcore, vccio and vccsa all at the sweet spot. You can add vcore and still get residuals all over the place.

I hit 107c with 2gb passes and still managed to get the correct amount of voltages. It’s probably overkill for normal workloads though.

I should probably mention that I had once gotten a 90% residuals matched test and then got a whea error in realbench afterwards lol.


----------



## SunnyStefan

TheBoom said:


> I hit 107c


Jeez that's toasty, hopefully that CPU temperature was only _briefly _sustained. Your username and profile picture are very fitting given the topic at hand!


----------



## 638220

TheBoom said:


> Getting residuals to match in linpack is getting vcore, vccio and vccsa all at the sweet spot. You can add vcore and still get residuals all over the place.
> 
> I hit 107c with 2gb passes and still managed to get the correct amount of voltages. It’s probably overkill for normal workloads though.
> 
> I should probably mention that I had once gotten a 90% residuals matched test and then got a whea error in realbench afterwards lol.


How many passes with 90% residuals?

I kept adjusting until I could get 30/30 for 4.9ghz. SA/IO was on point, just ended up needing to add more vcore in my case. Temps probably hit 100c during this run but i figured yolo gotta playgame of residuals at least once. One of the gflops was a little off, something probably went off in the background during that pass or w/e.

4.9ghz all core, 4.5ghz cache ht on w/ c15-4100 at 1.55v/vdimm 1.3v/sa-io


----------



## Arctucas

blacknbigger212 said:


> <SNIP>Is it? I always thought linpack extreme was the real stability challenge, getting all those residuals match n what not.<SNIP>


I thought LinX 0.9.6 was the challenge...


----------



## Imprezzion

Falkentyne said:


> Just do what @Imprezzion did and destroy your boot sector


Luckily I was able to rebuild it with a Windows 10 USB recovery. Didn't lose any data. It just borked the Windows Boot Manager, the NVMe just showed up in the BIOS as a normal NVMe without a boot manager lol.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> What is the performance difference of running tCKE at 1 instead of 6?


cke=0 means completely turn the power down mode off.


----------



## garyd9

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> cke=0 means completely turn the power down mode off.


Would that make the memory faster reacting in real-world use?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

garyd9 said:


> Would that make the memory faster reacting in real-world use?


not too much, similar to setting your pc to high perf mode in win10.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

My best result so far with 4 dimm of cheap azz Patriot Viper Steel 4400.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Salve1412 said:


> So it looks like Prime95 112k AVX disabled is the real stability challenge. After passing 4hour GSAT, 8 hours HCI Memtest, TestMem5 Anta Extreme 3 iterations and Ollie 20 iterations, I still kept on getting random fatal errors in Prime. I had to raise not only VCCIO and VCCSA, but also V/F offset: in fact more Vcore seemed to have a greater impact on stability than raising VCCIO/VCCSA. At least after adjusting voltages it seems I can pass 2 hours without errors with my 4400MHz overclock:
> View attachment 2461237
> :
> View attachment 2461236
> .


bcuz p95 requieres more voltage :rollseyes: i wouldnt even take that seriously after the fact it passed all other suits


----------



## TheBoom

blacknbigger212 said:


> How many passes with 90% residuals?
> 
> I kept adjusting until I could get 30/30 for 4.9ghz. SA/IO was on point, just ended up needing to add more vcore in my case. Temps probably hit 100c during this run but i figured yolo gotta playgame of residuals at least once. One of the gflops was a little off, something probably went off in the background during that pass or w/e.
> 
> 4.9ghz all core, 4.5ghz cache ht on w/ c15-4100 at 1.55v/vdimm 1.3v/sa-io
> 
> View attachment 2461281


It was 19/20 passes iirc. Increasing IO and SA by 10 mv made it stable in realbench afterwards but residuals were then 17/20 in linpack.

Also I notice you are using 10gb passes. I remember the author saying something about passes bigger than 8gb putting less strain/load on the system. Not sure if that has changed.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> not too much, similar to setting your pc to high perf mode in win10.


I use Adaptive voltage and Balanced profile because I don't want to run high idle voltage. That would be especially true for people who run 1.4v++...

Regards to loss of performce by running like this, when I load up Battlefield 5, even just staying idle in the game menu, the CPU runs at allcore turbo anyways. So what performance gains are there by running manual voltage and High performance power plan really....?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Arctucas said:


> I thought LinX 0.9.6 was the challenge...


ermmm i wouldnt count on it.. linpack extreme on my machine would load my cpu with AVX512 so is futile lol
that mean it would make my cpu throw 500w+ peaks of heat at just 1.0V


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermmm i wouldnt count on it.. linpack extreme on my machine would load my cpu with AVX512 so is futile lol
> that mean it would make my cpu throw 500w+ peaks of heat at just 1.0V


Not if you set Long duration power limit in BIOS to something your cooling can handle?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> Not if you set Long duration power limit in BIOS to something your cooling can handle?


i can cool 500w sustained loads perfectly fine..
This is the most realistic top heavy load your cpu would ever see on a pc over a power virus apps like p95..
like in here









thats not the issue, the issue is thats avx512 on my side at just 1.0vs and is unrealistic is a waste of time in my end.. its like me fighting with p95 theres no benefits from it

seen ppl here barely able to cool 300w ish and 260amps of heat tripping ocps from their psus is like 

why i would waste my time hammering p95?

and all you guys do is "game"? yeah i would put my concentration with just rog bench and call it a day bcuz the way rog bench test the pc is like a gaming load not a sustained one... sustained one you can use blender or x264 v2 and loop that instead.. but rog bench would aim more at those swaps on sse/avx instructions better and voltages transients better than p95 in p95 you see none of that crap...

Rogbench would have one core at sse crunching and another core doing avx encoding then another core on zip compressing/decompressing etc... you have different types of stuff going on at the same time... specially if theres avx offsets involved rogbench is your go to app for stress testing.. P95 is just a heat torch and thats all it does.. There is no variance whatsoever on it.. so you just fighting to keep one instruction set going theres no ups and downs no variance like a regular usage day to day stuff..


----------



## 638220

TheBoom said:


> It was 19/20 passes iirc. Increasing IO and SA by 10 mv made it stable in realbench afterwards but residuals were then 17/20 in linpack.
> 
> Also I notice you are using 10gb passes. I remember the author saying something about passes bigger than 8gb putting less strain/load on the system. Not sure if that has changed.


Anything higher than 10gb puts less strain on the system and 10gb is the heaviest from my understanding.


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> why i would waste my time hammering p95?


Well I don't run P95 with AVX enabled. No program or game I use have AVX-512 and probably never will. But P95 in-place 112k fft non-avx is a useful tool to test CPU and memory stability - you get error if your tWR or tCWL is too low. I had to increase my tWR from 12 to 13 just to pass 112k fft while tWR 12 passed HCI just fine.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> Well I don't run P95 with AVX enabled. No program or game I use have AVX-512 and probably never will. But P95 in-place 112k fft is a useful tool to test CPU and memory stability - you get error if your tWR or tCWL is too low. I had to increase my tWR from 12 to 13 just to pass 112k fft while tWR 12 passed HCI just fine.


again bcuz you get an error on p95 that doesnt mean you going to get a critical error later on.. if you cratch etc is mostly due to a variance by voltage "transients" or load..

P95 its not realistic... even without avx on on it..

there is games that uses avx code btw so technically your p95 run on sse on a avx load would and can be unstable in the end in an app that uses avx code for example thats just how it works..

Try running an overclock just validated for sse instructions on avx loads and see what happens... They are just validated for sse you fooling yourself and wasting your time doing that..


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> there is games that uses avx code btw so technically your p95 run with avx load would and can be unstable in the end in an app that uses avx code for example thats just how it works..


That's why I play Battlefield 5 Multiplayer as a stability test too - it uses AVX. Blender Open Data is a good test aswell, or Asus Realbench.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> *It's really stupid that we "must" run several different memory stress programs to vertify our settings! *One test will pass, another fail at the same settings. I mean, what do these guys do they who code these apps... Ohh and then it's the CPU : Prime95 at 80k, 112k, 1344k or whatever FFT..AVX or non-avx.... Linpack, AIDA64 stresstest, Realbench, Blender, Cinebench and bla bla bla...





Betroz said:


> That's why I play Battlefield 5 Multiplayer as a stability test too - it uses AVX. Blender Open Data is a good test aswell, or Asus Realbench.


thats why i run different stress tests specially on my ram tweaks/overclocks... and there you go.. you answer your own question XD now disregard p95 out of that equation and you be even better in the long run lol

i havent use p95 in ages for stability for "SANE" reasons.. i can cool it but for what?? headaches?? why i would settle for less when i can "realistic" set for more? and with less heat as well...

i only popup p95 to do quick heat tests lo0... thats all is worth too me now a days to test my cooling ... it keeps a steady flow of heat i can pre determined set the amount of steady watts etc..... other than that? worthless.


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> i havent use p95 in ages for stability for "SANE" reasons.. i can cool it but for what?? headaches?? why i would settle for less when i can "realistic" set for more? and with less heat as well...


I never said I was a sane person 

I stopped using Prime95 ages ago too, but then I learned that when it comes to testing RAM stability, especially tWR and tWCL, that P95 112k fft is a useful tool. Besides Realbench 2.56 heats the CPU just as much...


----------



## zGunBLADEz

btw talking about this kind of stuff









this is a very informative video of why we dont quote intel by spec voltage as a rule as they are NOT with amps loaded on it and accounting for "vdroop" i like my vdroop  then add those issues with different type of loads ends crash fest galore and issues and unnecessary heat needed for p95 etc...




Betroz said:


> I never said I was a sane person
> 
> I stopped using Prime95 ages ago too, but then I learned that when it comes to testing RAM stability, especially tWR and tWCL, that P95 112k fft is a useful tool. Besides Realbench 2.56 heats the CPU just as much...


nah no theres no way rogbench heats more the cpu than p95 maybe with just sse p95 lol ends rogbench is doing more than p95 sse only 

so if your p95 sse section is stable and it crash on bf5 which uses avx then it wasnt never stable its just p95 sse stable end is useless.. Then you do an actual avx load and you see raising your voltages to a point.... that is throwing more amps..

I got my good laugh here already and that user pushing 260-280 amps to his poor cpu and not be able to cool it and psu ocping and he wondering why is doing that lol..

Cant wait this mainstream cpus (without an extra voltage controller integrated like x299) get to the 16 core arena and see if you guys going to have the same perspective of doing those p95 runs 

cant barely cool an 8 core or 10 core think about a 16 core or more on mainstream without that extra voltage controller. yeah thats that...

just for perspective... my 7980xe with HT on is over 125w-150w at the same settings vs none.. a bit increase on volts?? lets say 1.2 to 1.25v? thats like 100 w+ easy lol and thats with that extra voltage controller lol it would be even worst on mainstream lol


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> so if your p95 sse section is stable and it crash on bf5 which uses avx then it wasnt never stable its just p95 sse stable end is useless


You are seeing things a bit in black or white here.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> You are seeing things a bit in black or white here.


how so??
im not the one with issues with overclocks am i?

come here time to time to read people complaining about certain things when they not following proper testing methodology...

Like for example i just got a crash, my memory dont want to train my memory dont do that... lets load the crap out of it and trip psus like 
expectations vs reality  i got 33ns with 1.4.. but i got 35ns on 1.25v like is a wash bro lol
understand that is a damn wash.... thats between margin of error..

do you think 30min is enough for a ram stress test? or an hr? hey  to me thats not even a warm up on the ram for experience they would need way way way more than that..

if you willing to shoot 1.4v-1.5v to an imc controller and io why you guys dont shoot 1.5v to the cpu then? you are limited right?> think the same way if you put it all together


----------



## zGunBLADEz

i have shoot that kind of voltage thru a cpu and i dont recommend it and i have no issues cooling it thats not my point..










now lets see the oven heater @ 1.4v and this is with proper set vdroop and everything in between it goes as low as 1.32v on a P95 avx load










i have done and worst than you guys...... all i see here in the the last 100-200 pages so on suicide benching but for the sake of the topic perse i cant vouch on it.. bcuz its not stable yeah the screenies are nice but thats all they are just screenies lol its not stable


----------



## Imprezzion

I mean... Real bench is nice and all but is in no way a valid stability test. Heck I can run real bench with acceptable temps at 5.3 all core on the 10900K at just 1.356c VCC Sense. (1.35v fixed LLC3) and it runs easily an hour without crashing. I posted that here like 25 pages ago.

Problem is, any game like Division 2 for example won't even run for 10 minutes without crashing or even BSOD.

I want my OC to pass everything. So that includes Prime95 AVX FMA3 all the stuff. Just in case I ever use a workload that does use that kind of power I wanna be sure my OC can handle it.

It does that fine on 5.1 all core AVX 0 1.290v fixed LLC3 and temps aren't crazy. About 84-86c hottest core. 5.2 for example in Prime95 AVX FMA3 needs like 1.37v to even stand a chance if being stable and that does go well into the 90's even hitting 98c hottest core. Not worth it.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Imprezzion said:


> I mean... Real bench is nice and all but is in no way a valid stability test. Heck I can run real bench with acceptable temps at 5.3 all core on the 10900K at just 1.356c VCC Sense. (1.35v fixed LLC3) and it runs easily an hour without crashing. I posted that here like 25 pages ago.
> 
> Problem is, any game like Division 2 for example won't even run for 10 minutes without crashing or even BSOD.
> 
> I want my OC to pass everything. So that includes Prime95 AVX FMA3 all the stuff. Just in case I ever use a workload that does use that kind of power I wanna be sure my OC can handle it.
> 
> It does that fine on 5.1 all core AVX 0 1.290v fixed LLC3 and temps aren't crazy. About 84-86c hottest core. 5.2 for example in Prime95 AVX FMA3 needs like 1.37v to even stand a chance if being stable and that does go well into the 90's even hitting 98c hottest core. Not worth it.


and hr you need to warm it up and test more than that just rogbench an hr is not enough event the one which is not a stress test which is just for scores have his purpose on a loop between gimp/avx load you dont have to test the gpu part... when testing the cpu

also you have what i been saying about voltage transients and what the 2 videos i just posted is saying... those will kill your stuff quick you aiming for stability you end doing a p95 run with overshooting voltages and over voltage.. a little +0.010v- 0.020v would fix that issue instead of priming the crap out of it again lol you dont even have to test it no more after that

Theres no load that uses p95 kind of stuff not even blender which is a heavy load at his own and realistic, gaming load is a very weak load to begin with

Then you have almost to a point that even a couple of degrees change on the ambients it will throw all your progress out of the window lol. Even a bios update will mess it up trust me been there done that..


I still crunching the viper kits over and over and over since my first tests lol.. Right now...

Did a TM5 extreme run 1 cycle to warm the kits up then here it goes hci right away after the tm5 anta run finished xD..


Solid as a rock over and over im not doing 30min 1hr runs either xD









and they can do 14s benchies but the gains and the voltage needed are not worth it to me...

chunking like it aint nothing  still 4200 to test after im done with 4000... i still have to test cpu stability after im done with the ram @ 4000 which is my main goal.. idk what my cpu would request on 4200 my other gskill kit can do 4200 @ 17/20/17 old b die get decent performance out them at those clocks.. but like everything another sets of ram not tested etc.. i dont know what cpu+mobo+ram would ask if they going to play nice etc... plus it have a new bios too as well which i already find a few quirks out of him vs the old bios i was using when i tested 4200.. 4200 on x299 is like 1% er stuff thats why im concentrating in 4000 as my base first to get to know the kit and what cpu+mobo if they play along with it..


----------



## Betroz

On topic again. My IMC craps out at 4400, but got this TM5 stable. I could probably do 4300 with the same timings aswell.


----------



## JoeRambo

0451 said:


> My best result so far with 4 dimm of cheap azz Patriot Viper Steel 4400.


Is that a new BIOS for Unify? A.2W ? Any new features compared to A.2U?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

blacknbigger212 said:


> Why do you people give a *** what others use for testing? Why even argue with eachother? Ya'll sound like a couple of bitter widowed women bickering over who gets to host the next bingo night. like who gives a ***. Does it matter? Do your own testing, and if it is suffice for your needs, then cool. If your one of those problematic users who rags on others because they don't follow the same testing methodology as you, then maybe you ought to go somewhere else because your causing friction.


to my understanding by the topic rules none of you"S" follow the topic lol this is not a place for suicide stuff 

Now me? In the meantime i adhere to those rules with headroom to spare


----------



## 638220

zGunBLADEz said:


> and hr you need to warm it up and test more than that just rogbench an hr is not enough event the one which is not a stress test which is just for scores have his purpose on a loop between gimp/avx load you dont have to test the gpu part... when testing the cpu
> 
> also you have what i been saying about voltage transients and what the 2 videos i just posted is saying... those will kill your stuff quick you aiming for stability you end doing a p95 run with overshooting voltages and over voltage.. a little +0.010v- 0.020v would fix that issue instead of priming the crap out of it again lol you dont even have to test it no more after that
> 
> Theres no load that uses p95 kind of stuff not even blender which is a heavy load at his own and realistic, gaming load is a very weak load to begin with
> 
> Then you have almost to a point that even a couple of degrees change on the ambients it will throw all your progress out of the window lol. Even a bios update will mess it up trust me been there done that..
> 
> 
> I still crunching the viper kits over and over and over since my first tests lol.. Right now...
> 
> Did a TM5 extreme run 1 cycle to warm the kits up then here it goes hci right away after the tm5 anta run finished xD..
> 
> 
> Solid as a rock over and over im not doing 30min 1hr runs either xD
> View attachment 2461334
> 
> 
> and they can do 14s benchies but the gains and the voltage needed are not worth it to me...
> 
> chunking like it aint nothing  still 4200 to test after im done with 4000... i still have to test cpu stability after im done with the ram @ 4000 which is my main goal.. idk what my cpu would request on 4200 my other gskill kit can do 4200 @ 17/20/17 old b die get decent performance out them at those clocks.. but like everything another sets of ram not tested etc.. i dont know what cpu+mobo+ram would ask if they going to play nice etc... plus it have a new bios too as well which i already find a few quirks out of him vs the old bios i was using when i tested 4200.. 4200 on x299 is like 1% er stuff thats why im concentrating in 4000 as my base first to get to know the kit and what cpu+mobo if they play along with it..





zGunBLADEz said:


> to my understanding by the topic rules none of you"S" follow the topic lol this is not a place for suicide stuff


12 hours in hci + 30 loops linx 1.1.3 with all matching residuals + 4 hours of occt large avx2 error free ain't enough to qualify? Plz. Or is that they want to keep people testing and testing and testing for no good reason?  Or do they have a reason and won't say it?


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Dang that photo op didn't go well


----------



## zGunBLADEz

blacknbigger212 said:


> 12 hours in hci + 30 loops linx 1.1.3 with all matching residuals + 4 hours of occt large avx2 error free ain't enough to qualify? Plz. Or is that they want to keep people testing and testing and testing for no good reason?  Or do they have a reason and won't say it?


Im not the one complaining about stability do i?? All those vipers has seen more hrs tested than all the tests here from different users combined into one put together... 



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Dang that photo op didn't go well


i know you love them pictures with the phone taken on a dark room


----------



## eeeven

cstkl1 said:


> math. the difference is math.
> rtl/iol was easy to solve. 09x ahem cough cough bios has a hmm cough cough option to show the problem on this but not 098 is good enough
> 
> gsat. err again some know my stand on it is akin a joke program. good enough for main timings only.
> 
> hci more for all round with cache
> tm5 for quick test on vdimm/main timings.. general
> fft112 da killer. you got to be stable cpu, vccio,vcssa and ram
> 
> 4400 afaik only i have posted .. rather than posting more of this
> 
> 4533 hmm this aint easy on fft112...
> 
> if you can do 4500 u can do 4533
> if u cant your 4500 is unstable.
> timings are the same. only diff is 4533 is using proper multiplier and not odd one.
> 
> 4533 is where the problem starts for cl17/cl18... twcl 13 seems easiest but that poses few issue.
> 
> will pm you later bro the math.
> whats odd is what i see with this kit on 4500-4533 happens to the 4266kit @4400
> 
> i wonder is it a vdimm range issue..



Can u please explain what you mean with this sentance?

*rtl/iol was easy to solve. 09x ahem cough cough bios has a hmm cough cough option to show the problem on this but not 098 is good enough

What you mean with RTL/IOL was easy to solve? And what u mean with 09x/098?*


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> Im not the one complaining about stability do i??


Then who in here is complaining? Sure you didn't take something out of context...


----------



## zGunBLADEz

do i have to go like 50 pages or so and quote every single suicide bench posted in here not following the rules..

I mean i understand when is time to throw the towel instead of shooting voltages up and up and up  funny thing is they are *miserably failing into early hrs on such tests* with my regime they wouldnt even last lol


----------



## 638220

zGunBLADEz said:


> Im not the one complaining about stability do i?? All those vipers has seen more hrs tested than all the tests here from different users combined into one put together...
> 
> 
> i know you love them pictures with the phone taken on a dark room


Do you think stress testing is some sort of competition or something? If a posted benchmark isn't stress tested stable, why don't you just report it to moderators and be done with it?


----------



## ThrashZone

eeeven said:


> Can u please explain what you mean with this sentance?
> 
> *rtl/iol was easy to solve. 09x ahem cough cough bios has a hmm cough cough option to show the problem on this but not 098 is good enough
> 
> What you mean with RTL/IOL was easy to solve? And what u mean with 09x/098?*


Hi,
He talks in code because of tube lurkers lol really funny not sure why he post screen shots lurkers can grab them easy lol


----------



## zGunBLADEz

blacknbigger212 said:


> Do you think stress testing is some sort of competition or something?


ermmm is either you follow the topic rules or open a new one for that.. i dont mean to intrude on the screenies but this is a stress testing topic after all not hwbot

Lets not forget the dude pushing 270 amps thru his cpu and psu ocping and not knowing why .... please lets use that as a living example of why recommending such stuff sometimes is bad...


----------



## 638220

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermmm is either you follow the topic rules or open a new one for that.. i dont mean to intrude on the screenies but this is a stress testing topic after all not hwbot
> 
> Lets not forget the dude pushing 270 amps thru his cpu and psu ocping and not knowing why .... please lets use that as a living example of why recommending such stuff sometimes is bad...


Ok that just went right over your head. Let me give you some advice, and please don't take this offensively but you come off as an elitist sometimes. You make it seem like stress testing is some sort of competition because you have so many hours logged on your vipers. We all can come across as an elitist from time to time, including myself. I think its important that we learn how to control that so that we don't alienate other users ya know? People don't like to deal with that crap. The more people here, the merrier imo. Lets just be chill, nom sayin? 

I don't have a problem with people speaking out of context, doesn't bother me. I don't mind speaking out of context either. To each their own, I ain't gonna police anyone about it either.

I just want this place to be chill and enjoyable for those who visit.


----------



## 638220

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> He talks in code because of tube lurkers lol really funny not sure why he post screen shots lurkers can grab them easy lol


What are tube lurkers? First time i'm hearing this term. And whats it matter if people post screenies of everything? Isn't that the point of this thread?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

blacknbigger212 said:


> Ok that just went right over your head. Let me give you some advice, and please don't take this offensively but you come off as an elitist sometimes. You make it seem like stress testing is some sort of competition because you have so many hours logged on your vipers. We all can come across as an elitist from time to time, including myself. I think its important that we learn how to control that so that we don't alienate other users ya know? People don't like to deal with that crap. The more people here, the merrier imo. Lets just be chill, nom sayin?
> 
> I don't have a problem with people speaking out of context, doesn't bother me. I don't mind speaking out of context either. To each their own, I ain't gonna police anyone about it either.
> 
> I just want this place to be chill and enjoyable for those who visit.


not just the vipers those are just the new toys lol.. i didnt know i sounded like a elitist but im cheap so i cant be one 

Anyway point to me is, i seen recommendations and voltages here well im not one to be putting those in this type of topic..

Like latest example... running linpack extreme i saw a few pages back... i explained what would happen if i decided to run that on x299 it would TRIGGER AVX512 and thats it gameover. Now think a new user here on x299 wondering wth happen he just clicked and the button and the puter just went kaput out of nowhere.. Probably running on static voltage as well or even worst on auto :/. Btw, the 270amps guys if im not mistaken was doing linpack extreme on mainstream it wasnt even AVX512 load lol


----------



## 638220

blacknbigger212 said:


> What are tube lurkers? First time i'm hearing this term. And whats it matter if people post screenies of everything? Isn't that the point of this thread?





zGunBLADEz said:


> not just the vipers those are just the new toys lol.. i didnt know i sounded like a elitist but im cheap so i cant be one
> 
> Anyway point to me is, i seen recommendations and voltages here well im not one to be putting those in this type of topic..
> 
> Like latest example... running linpack extreme i saw a few pages back... i explained what would happen if i decided to run that on x299 it would TRIGGER AVX512 and thats it gameover.


Sure, but the linpack extreme conversation was between 2 users with 9th/10th gen intel mainstream z390/z490 chips. So like, If some rando lurker or w/e doesn't decide to pay attention to the context of the conversation with the hardware those users have and kills their own chip because they ran it on x299, that ain't my fault or problem ya know? It's not like I gave the person with the x299 rig the idea to do it or lead them to believe it was ok to do. That's on them. Maybe they just shouldn't do stuff without putting thorough research into it first. Or maybe intel should just have full clear and concise official easy to understand in laymen terms/documentation/OC classes available on demand so that users don't have to rely on hunting down bits/pieces of information on the internet that may or may not be correct. Like if intel had an official easy to understand encyclopedia for all their chips, we wouldn't even be having this conversation ya know? But instead all these hobby sites want to police users and condition them on what they should say and when and how under the guise of trying to prevent misinformation(which is a load of crap btw, if you look around there is like a mass social conditioning going on all over the place lately all covering the same topics simultaneously, dare I say brainwashing LOL). Just make an encyclopedia that is only for facts, it's much more cost and time effective lol. Most products come with a detailed instruction manual to lead the buyer to success, these chips don't. Just sayin.

In regards to the realbench conversation, I think its a bit dated now. Seems as though it hasn't been updated in awhile, and if people can pass it and then still crash in a game, well then it needs some updating because its supposed to be a gamer's stress test if i'm not mistaken. Personally I prefer OCCTLarge avx2/HCI and linpack extreme because I like game of residuals. OCCTLarge avx2 seems like a reasonable balance for those who use their PC mainly for gaming.

Also, whats up with my posts/edits requiring "moderator approval" these days? This was a never a thing before. That's like deciding whether or not someone else can speak lol. We can't just have regular real time conversations anymore on this website?

Also, just finished another 2 more hours of occt, figured i'd put it through again for short duration since i was messing with other overclocks earlier while testing the latest occt 7 beta. They really ought to add a how long was completed instead of displaying 00:00:00. Can take a look at hwinfo64 timer + averages to see it was testing for 2 hours.


----------



## 638220

zGunBLADEz said:


> not just the vipers those are just the new toys lol.. i didnt know i sounded like a elitist but im cheap so i cant be one
> 
> Anyway point to me is, i seen recommendations and voltages here well im not one to be putting those in this type of topic..
> 
> Like latest example... running linpack extreme i saw a few pages back... i explained what would happen if i decided to run that on x299 it would TRIGGER AVX512 and thats it gameover. Now think a new user here on x299 wondering wth happen he just clicked and the button and the puter just went kaput out of nowhere.. Probably running on static voltage as well or even worst on auto :/. Btw, the 270amps guys if im not mistaken was doing linpack extreme on mainstream it wasnt even AVX512 load lol


Seems my other response is still "awaiting moderator approval" lol. so i'm just gonna repost and hope it goes through


Sure, but the linpack extreme conversation was between 2 users with 9th/10th gen intel mainstream z390/z490 chips. So like, If some rando lurker or w/e doesn't decide to pay attention to the context of the conversation with the hardware those users have and kills their own chip because they ran it on x299, that ain't my fault or problem ya know? It's not like I gave the person with the x299 rig the idea to do it or lead them to believe it was ok to do. That's on them. Maybe they just shouldn't do stuff without putting thorough research into it first. Or maybe intel should just have full clear and concise official easy to understand in laymen terms/documentation/OC classes available on demand so that users don't have to rely on hunting down bits/pieces of information on the internet that may or may not be correct. Like if intel had an official easy to understand encyclopedia for all their chips, we wouldn't even be having this conversation ya know? But instead all these hobby sites want to police users and condition them on what they should say and when and how under the guise of trying to prevent misinformation(which is a load of crap btw, if you look around there is like a mass social conditioning going on all over the place lately all covering the same topics simultaneously, dare I say brainwashing LOL). Just make an encyclopedia that is only for facts, it's much more cost and time effective lol. Most products come with a detailed instruction manual to lead the buyer to success, these chips don't. Just sayin.

In regards to the realbench conversation, I think its a bit dated now. Seems as though it hasn't been updated in awhile, and if people can pass it and then still crash in a game, well then it needs some updating because its supposed to be a gamer's stress test if i'm not mistaken. Personally I prefer OCCTLarge avx2/HCI and linpack extreme because I like game of residuals. OCCTLarge avx2 seems like a reasonable balance for those who use their PC mainly for gaming.

Also, whats up with my posts/edits requiring "moderator approval" these days? This was a never a thing before. That's like deciding whether or not someone else can speak lol. We can't just have regular real time conversations anymore on this website?

Also, just finished another 2 more hours of occt, figured i'd put it through again for short duration since i was messing with other overclocks earlier while testing the latest occt 7 beta. They really ought to add a how long was completed instead of displaying 00:00:00. Can take a look at hwinfo64 timer + averages to see it was testing for 2 hours.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

JoeRambo said:


> Is that a new BIOS for Unify? A.2W ? Any new features compared to A.2U?


There are a lot of new drop downs like Lucky Mode for better memory overclocking. There is a water cooling mode ans some new memory timings.

The main feature is better memory overclocking. Before I was at 4266 17-17-17. Now at 4300 16-16-16. The new bios is also supposed to run 1T command rate at 300mhz higher than before but I haven’t tested it. For $300 the Unify is the board that just keeps giving.


----------



## Arctucas

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermmm i wouldnt count on it.. linpack extreme on my machine would load my cpu with AVX512 so is futile lol
> that mean it would make my cpu throw 500w+ peaks of heat at just 1.0V


Was not referring to Linpack Extreme.


----------



## TheBoom

Entertaining last two pages of conversation I must say. I’m now curious to know who this guy who threw 270 amps in linpack and sent his psu into ocp is 😂.


----------



## Arctucas

blacknbigger212 said:


> <SNIP> Personally I prefer OCCTLarge avx2/HCI and linpack extreme because I like game of residuals. OCCTLarge avx2 seems like a reasonable balance for those who use their PC mainly for gaming.
> <SNIP>


Your screenshot is showing OCCT test, correct? Why not the OCCT memory test?

Does the OCCT test check memory stability better?

This thread is all about memory stability, after all.


----------



## Imprezzion

0451 said:


> There are a lot of new drop downs like Lucky Mode for better memory overclocking. There is a water cooling mode ans some new memory timings.
> 
> The main feature is better memory overclocking. Before I was at 4266 17-17-17. Now at 4300 16-16-16. The new bios is also supposed to run 1T command rate at 300mhz higher than before but I haven’t tested it. For $300 the Unify is the board that just keeps giving.


Like, what even is lucky mode. Can't really find anything conclusive on what it does.

I have it on the Ace's 12.U Beta BIOS as well along with PPD support which is great but haven't touched lucky mode yet.

Btw, I need you guy's advice on something.

I've done a lot and I mean a lot of testing with different frequencies and timings but I'm hitting a wierd wall of sorts.

Firstly I cannot at any frequency get tRCD and tRP to be tCL or tCL+1. I have to run 15-17-17 or 16-18-18 or 18-20-20 or whatever a given frequency wants. If I set for example 15-16-16 it will just go ballistic with errors. Voltages seem to have no effect on this either.
Mind you, this happened on the Z390+9900K as well at 3866. I had to run 14-16-16 as 14-15-15 was sort of stable but not completely.

Second, 4200-15-17-17-34-280-2T passes any test I can throw at it but if I even touch the frequency a little bit to 4266 or 4300 all timings go through the roof. Even 16-18-18 isn't stable at 4266/4300.

Even on super loose secondaries, tertiaries and RTL/IO I need 17-19-19 to even stand a chance on 4400 and for 4600 I can't get below 18-20-20. It did run several tests like 1.5 hours TM5 and 2 hours HCI on 4600-18-20-20-39-400-2T 1.60v VDIMM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO but it's wierd to me that above 4200 the timings have to be raised so much. I see many people with 16-16-16 on 4400 for example but I can't even boot 16-16-16 on 4400 on 1.60v VDIMM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO.

Is this more likely to be a RAM chip limitation, board (or BIOS) limitation or CPU IMC limitation?


----------



## rSol

0451 said:


> My best result so far with 4 dimm of cheap azz Patriot Viper Steel 4400.


Are these the *PVS416G440C9K* kit? I have this kit in my Unify and need 32GBs to run VMs. When I look on MSI's website it shows the board only supports 2 sticks of 8. Am I reading the chart incorrectly?






MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY ATX Gaming Motherboard (10th Gen Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, SLI/CF, Triple M.2 Slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, Wi-Fi 6)


Powered by Intel 10th Gen Core processors, the MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY begins its dark conquest with a design made to accomplish any task with cruel efficiency. Connect to ultra-fast networks with 2.5G LAN and Wi-Fi AX. Move bulky files faster with USB 3.2 Gen




www.msi.com


----------



## JoeRambo

0451 said:


> There are a lot of new drop downs like Lucky Mode for better memory overclocking. There is a water cooling mode ans some new memory timings.
> 
> The main feature is better memory overclocking. Before I was at 4266 17-17-17. Now at 4300 16-16-16. The new bios is also supposed to run 1T command rate at 300mhz higher than before but I haven’t tested it. For $300 the Unify is the board that just keeps giving.



Cool, thanks for the info. Got any link to download it? I am on A.2U, rocking 3900C15 setup i am very happy with, but have an itch to play with new BIOS if you know what i mean lol


----------



## 638220

Arctucas said:


> Your screenshot is showing OCCT test, correct? Why not the OCCT memory test?
> 
> Does the OCCT test check memory stability better?
> 
> This thread is all about memory stability, after all.


Occt memory test is newer but is a bit pattern test, similar to techpower up's memtest. The occt memory test and techpowerup memtest are much easier to pass than stuff like hci or occtlarge avx2 or linpack extreme. OCCTLarge avx2, the test i performed in that screenshot, does a better job of determining stability imo because it heats up the ram more as well as heat up the area around the cpu socket more. If you can pass occtlarge av2, you have a very good level of stability for the memory AND cpu.


----------



## 638220

rSol said:


> Are these the *PVS416G440C9K* kit? I have this kit in my Unify and need 32GBs to run VMs. When I look on MSI's website it shows the board only supports 2 sticks of 8. Am I reading the chart incorrectly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY ATX Gaming Motherboard (10th Gen Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, SLI/CF, Triple M.2 Slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, Wi-Fi 6)
> 
> 
> Powered by Intel 10th Gen Core processors, the MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY begins its dark conquest with a design made to accomplish any task with cruel efficiency. Connect to ultra-fast networks with 2.5G LAN and Wi-Fi AX. Move bulky files faster with USB 3.2 Gen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msi.com


Check out buildzoid's youtube video for 4x8gb patriot 4400 on the unify.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Like, what even is lucky mode. Can't really find anything conclusive on what it does.
> 
> I have it on the Ace's 12.U Beta BIOS as well along with PPD support which is great but haven't touched lucky mode yet.
> 
> Btw, I need you guy's advice on something.
> 
> I've done a lot and I mean a lot of testing with different frequencies and timings but I'm hitting a wierd wall of sorts.
> 
> Firstly I cannot at any frequency get tRCD and tRP to be tCL or tCL+1. I have to run 15-17-17 or 16-18-18 or 18-20-20 or whatever a given frequency wants. If I set for example 15-16-16 it will just go ballistic with errors. Voltages seem to have no effect on this either.
> Mind you, this happened on the Z390+9900K as well at 3866. I had to run 14-16-16 as 14-15-15 was sort of stable but not completely.
> 
> Second, 4200-15-17-17-34-280-2T passes any test I can throw at it but if I even touch the frequency a little bit to 4266 or 4300 all timings go through the roof. Even 16-18-18 isn't stable at 4266/4300.
> 
> Even on super loose secondaries, tertiaries and RTL/IO I need 17-19-19 to even stand a chance on 4400 and for 4600 I can't get below 18-20-20. It did run several tests like 1.5 hours TM5 and 2 hours HCI on 4600-18-20-20-39-400-2T 1.60v VDIMM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO but it's wierd to me that above 4200 the timings have to be raised so much. I see many people with 16-16-16 on 4400 for example but I can't even boot 16-16-16 on 4400 on 1.60v VDIMM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO.
> 
> Is this more likely to be a RAM chip limitation, board (or BIOS) limitation or CPU IMC limitation?


Lucky mode lol. Who thought of that name 
Hey mate, what sticks do you have exactly?


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Lucky mode lol. Who thought of that name
> Hey mate, what sticks do you have exactly?


A 2x16GB Trident Z Neo 3600 C16 kit with B-Die's. Part number F4-3600C16D-32GTZN.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Imprezzion said:


> Like, what even is lucky mode. Can't really find anything conclusive on what it does.
> 
> I have it on the Ace's 12.U Beta BIOS as well along with PPD support which is great but haven't touched lucky mode yet.
> 
> Btw, I need you guy's advice on something.
> 
> I've done a lot and I mean a lot of testing with different frequencies and timings but I'm hitting a wierd wall of sorts.
> 
> Firstly I cannot at any frequency get tRCD and tRP to be tCL or tCL+1. I have to run 15-17-17 or 16-18-18 or 18-20-20 or whatever a given frequency wants. If I set for example 15-16-16 it will just go ballistic with errors. Voltages seem to have no effect on this either.
> Mind you, this happened on the Z390+9900K as well at 3866. I had to run 14-16-16 as 14-15-15 was sort of stable but not completely.
> 
> Second, 4200-15-17-17-34-280-2T passes any test I can throw at it but if I even touch the frequency a little bit to 4266 or 4300 all timings go through the roof. Even 16-18-18 isn't stable at 4266/4300.
> 
> Even on super loose secondaries, tertiaries and RTL/IO I need 17-19-19 to even stand a chance on 4400 and for 4600 I can't get below 18-20-20. It did run several tests like 1.5 hours TM5 and 2 hours HCI on 4600-18-20-20-39-400-2T 1.60v VDIMM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO but it's wierd to me that above 4200 the timings have to be raised so much. I see many people with 16-16-16 on 4400 for example but I can't even boot 16-16-16 on 4400 on 1.60v VDIMM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO.
> 
> Is this more likely to be a RAM chip limitation, board (or BIOS) limitation or CPU IMC limitation?


Training rtls.. Here xD theres a tip try using a higher cl for looser rtls and try booting that instead then you can try to force train the board either with a previous profile or in windows itself with asus mem tweak it and change cl to where is desired. If it freezes no way jose this goes with ram voltage in the ram as well. And how close is to a rtl lock lol.
Cl its the one it dictates on how low rtls go lol try having the rtls on auto and watch of they behave when just changing cl up and down 

If you try to boot 4200-4400 cl 12-13-14 you will see it choses low rtls the lower the cl xD

If you manage to lock the rtls etc boot load previous working set save exit bios go back into bios and change cl down and see if boots..


----------



## geriatricpollywog

rSol said:


> Are these the *PVS416G440C9K* kit? I have this kit in my Unify and need 32GBs to run VMs. When I look on MSI's website it shows the board only supports 2 sticks of 8. Am I reading the chart incorrectly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY ATX Gaming Motherboard (10th Gen Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, SLI/CF, Triple M.2 Slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, Wi-Fi 6)
> 
> 
> Powered by Intel 10th Gen Core processors, the MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY begins its dark conquest with a design made to accomplish any task with cruel efficiency. Connect to ultra-fast networks with 2.5G LAN and Wi-Fi AX. Move bulky files faster with USB 3.2 Gen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msi.com


Those are the same sticks I have. They are a 2x8 kit, not a 4x8 but you can run two kits and 4 DIMMs. With 2 DIMMs I can probably post 4800mhz on this bios but I haven't tried since I need to disconnect my loop to swap DIMMs.



JoeRambo said:


> Cool, thanks for the info. Got any link to download it? I am on A.2U, rocking 3900C15 setup i am very happy with, but have an itch to play with new BIOS if you know what i mean lol


I'll post the link later when I get on my hobby PC. It's saved in a Discord message.


----------



## munternet

0451 said:


> Those are the same sticks I have. They are a 2x8 kit, not a 4x8 but you can run two kits and 4 DIMMs. With 2 DIMMs I can probably post 4800mhz on this bios but I haven't tried since I need to disconnect my loop to swap DIMMs.


I had the same problem so changed my loop


----------



## KedarWolf

Locally I'm seling 4x8GB of 3600 CL16 non-RGB Trident Z, it was basically the best 4x8GB b-die kit for Z390.

But RAM prices have went down to much I'm only asking $250 in Canadian dollars rather than the $450 I listed it as probably a year ago. It's over $350 new on newegg.ca with taxes for the same kit now.

Still, I have no use for it since going Team Red with my 3950x as I get really great results with my 2x16GB CL16 3600 Neo RAM. X570 boards are Daisy Chain and four DIMM kits not so good.

Glad I'm finally selling it though. Cash much needed right now.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

munternet said:


> I had the same problem so changed my loop


I didn’t have this problem until after changing my loop a few weeks ago. My top rad goes directly to the CPU block. I didn’t think about how I would slide out the top rad in order to work under the hood. Hard-line would make things worse.


----------



## munternet

0451 said:


> I didn’t have this problem until after changing my loop a few weeks ago. My top rad goes directly to the CPU block. I didn’t think about how I would slide out the top rad in order to work under the hood. Hard-line would make things worse.


Oh ok. Sounds like a major to fix it


----------



## geriatricpollywog

munternet said:


> Oh ok. Sounds like a major to fix it


Just watched the video. Very cool!


----------



## Arctucas

blacknbigger212 said:


> Occt memory test is newer but is a bit pattern test, similar to techpower up's memtest. The occt memory test and techpowerup memtest are much easier to pass than stuff like hci or occtlarge avx2 or linpack extreme. OCCTLarge avx2, the test i performed in that screenshot, does a better job of determining stability imo because it heats up the ram more as well as heat up the area around the cpu socket more. If you can pass occtlarge av2, you have a very good level of stability for the memory AND cpu.


OK, thanks.

But, one hour is probably not enough to really test, is it?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Arctucas said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> But, one hour is probably not enough to really test, is it?
> 
> View attachment 2461523


Your CPU is only pulling 164 watts. This test may be good for memory, I don’t know, but 164 watts is not enough to test for CPU stability. Maybe try a different data set or run a stronger torture test. Prime95 small fft AVX off will pull 275 watts on a 10900k and properly heat up that socket.


----------



## 638220

Arctucas said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> But, one hour is probably not enough to really test, is it?
> 
> View attachment 2461523


It can be in some cases. My original test for my 33.0ns 3933 OC was only an hour in occtlarge avx2. Then I put it in for 4 hours last week and it passed at the same volts.


----------



## 638220

0451 said:


> Your CPU is only pulling 164 watts. This test may be good for memory, I don’t know, but 164 watts is not enough to test for CPU stability. Maybe try a different data set or run a stronger torture test. Prime95 small fft AVX off will pull 275 watts on a 10900k and properly heat up that socket.


Sure if you want him to burn up his hardware to keep the market wheels turning LOL. It's like they keep pushing you to test even though you've already got it stable lol. Guess they want you to wear out the hardware quicker or something.

They want him so bad!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

blacknbigger212 said:


> Sure if you want him to burn up his hardware to keep the market wheels turning LOL. It's like they keep pushing you to test even though you've already got it stable lol. Guess they want you to wear out the hardware quicker or something.


You got me there! I’m just trying to get him to burn up his CPU to support the economy. It’s all a conspiracy actually.

Look at all the people complaining how they destroyed their 14nm Intel CPUs in a stress test. They’re all over these forums! I was hoping another one would bite the dust but you had to expose my game.


----------



## 638220

0451 said:


> You got me there! I’m just trying to get him to burn up his CPU to support the economy. It’s all a conspiracy actually.
> 
> Look at all the people complaining how they destroyed their 14nm Intel CPUs in a stress test. They’re all over these forums! I was hoping another one would bite the dust but you had to expose my game.


Got emmmmmmmmmmmm .

No but really, whats the point of continuous testing. Every time I post a new OC somewhere, they trying to get me to run a bajillion tests on it? Like why? It had already been tested lol. I really don't see the point. You OC, then you test it, if it fails you re-tune and when it passes its done. Maybe its like customer engagement or something, they want to keep you actively involved and in the loop so they can sell you **** later on lol. who knows. It gets old though doesn't it?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

blacknbigger212 said:


> Got emmmmmmmmmmmm .
> 
> No but really, whats the point of continuous testing. Every time I post a new OC somewhere, they trying to get me to run a bajillion tests on it? Like why? It had already been tested lol. I really don't see the point. You OC, then you test it, if it fails you re-tune and when it passes its done. Maybe its like customer engagement or something, they want to keep you actively involved and in the loop so they can sell you **** later on lol. who knows. It gets old though doesn't it?


You said the OCCT test heats up the area around the CPU, which to me implies that it thermally stresses the CPU. I'm just trying to get you to realize that OCCT large data set does not thermally stress the CPU if the CPU is only running at 164 watts. In my system, Blender, Realbench, and Prime95 small fft AVX off push the CPU to 260-275 watts where you are actually stressing it. Prime95 small fft AVX on pushes the CPU to 330-340 watts, which is where things get unnecessary.

I am not sure who you refer to as "they" but Intel Extreme Tuning Utility is a good stress test. Intel doesn't go out of their way to advocate stress testing though.


----------



## Arctucas

0451 said:


> Your CPU is only pulling 164 watts. This test may be good for memory, I don’t know, but 164 watts is not enough to test for CPU stability. Maybe try a different data set or run a stronger torture test. Prime95 small fft AVX off will pull 275 watts on a 10900k and properly heat up that socket.


Couple of points:
This is the 'memory stability' thread, so not testing for CPU stability.
I am running a 9900K, 8 cores, 16 threads. Not 10 cores, 20 threads as is a 10900K.

But, a quick 10 pass run of LinX 0.9.6:










and a quick 10 pass run of Linpack Extreme 1.1.3:










So, 10 cores = 275W, or 27.5W/core.

8 cores = 245W, or 30.625W per core.


----------



## Imprezzion

Just to chime in, 10900KF 5.1 core 5.0 cache 1,290v fixed LLC3, 4200C15 memory 1.60v, 1.35v SA 1.25v IO.

Prime95 AVX FMA3 enabled on small fft's draws up to 340w on the CPU. And yes, I can cool that just fine. 86c max core temp average 84c after 1 hour.

Daily gaming loads see about 56-59c across the cores with 140-160w loads according to HWInfo64 with the radiator fans not spinning up past 800RPM. Pump is fixed on max speed. Single EK Phoenix kit with the QDC's still in it, lapped block with the original 280 rad push pull setup.


----------



## HappyAlive

blacknbigger212 said:


> Got emmmmmmmmmmmm .
> 
> No but really, whats the point of continuous testing. Every time I post a new OC somewhere, they trying to get me to run a bajillion tests on it? Like why? It had already been tested lol. I really don't see the point. You OC, then you test it, if it fails you re-tune and when it passes its done. Maybe its like customer engagement or something, they want to keep you actively involved and in the loop so they can sell you **** later on lol. who knows. It gets old though doesn't it?


The "stable while gaming" thing is a meme, you find a stable oc by slamming ur cpu into p95 / linpack for 30min-1hr and then you're done. If you go the gaming route you have to deal w / crashes sometimes, and the voltage you end up with as "stable" will probably not be high enough, thus leading to a performance loss.


----------



## 638220

HappyAlive said:


> The "stable while gaming" thing is a meme, you find a stable oc by slamming ur cpu into p95 / linpack for 30min-1hr and then you're done. If you go the gaming route you have to deal w / crashes sometimes, and the voltage you end up with as "stable" will probably not be high enough, thus leading to a performance loss.


Is it? Could you show me an fps comparison of an oc that is stable enough to game(like tested through cbr15/20/timespy without any crashing/whea/cache/internal cpu errors etc) vs one that was validated in p95? I'd love to see for my own eyes if what you say is true about the performance loss.


----------



## Nizzen

HappyAlive said:


> The "stable while gaming" thing is a meme, you find a stable oc by slamming ur cpu into p95 / linpack for 30min-1hr and then you're done. If you go the gaming route you have to deal w / crashes sometimes, and the voltage you end up with as "stable" will probably not be high enough, thus leading to a performance loss.


There is no 100% stable 
It's stable enough in given environment. Temperature is the main key here.

You can be VERY stable in 20c ambient, but be very unstable in 30c ambient. 

My daily computers are stable enough for the usage. My benchtable will never be stable enough, but that's not the plan either  (Push to the limit and beyond  )


----------



## HappyAlive

blacknbigger212 said:


> Is it? Could you show me an fps comparison of an oc that is stable enough to game(like tested through cbr15/20/timespy without any crashing/whea/cache/internal cpu errors etc) vs one that was validated in p95? I'd love to see for my own eyes if what you say is true about the performance loss.


Im not hunting down benchmarks for you, this site is unsaveable anyways, and ******s don't test **** properly. That being said I know a guy who went from 30% ubm to 95% (roughly) by adding .02v to a "100% stable" overclock, with no other changes. 

Did you know there are people who run cr2 on single rank? On motherboards that allow high frequency cr1? It's amazing.


----------



## munternet

Is anyone running cr1 at decent frequency, modest voltages on z490 with 2*16GB DR sticks?


----------



## Imprezzion

I can, but only up to 3866Mhz. 4000 does boot at CR1 but isn't stable at all at CR1 at any timings and 4200 and above doesn't boot CR1.


----------



## Arctucas

HappyAlive said:


> Im not hunting down benchmarks for you, this site is unsaveable anyways, and ****s don't test ** properly. That being said I know a guy who went from 30% ubm to 95% (roughly) by adding .02v to a "100% stable" overclock, with no other changes.
> 
> Did you know there are people who run cr2 on single rank? On motherboards that allow high frequency cr1? It's amazing.


"ubm"?

User Benchmark?


----------



## Arctucas

This is not normal, is it?

No settings changed, but RTL changed on its own.

Previous:









Six days later:









I even swapped DIMM positions, thinking it might be an issue with one DIMM.

Motherboard memory slot issue?


----------



## itssladenlol

Arctucas said:


> This is not normal, is it?
> 
> No settings changed, but RTL changed on its own.
> 
> Previous:
> View attachment 2461640
> 
> 
> Six days later:
> 
> View attachment 2461641
> 
> I even swapped DIMM positions, thinking it might be an issue with one DIMM.
> 
> Motherboard memory slot issue?


Thats normal, Same on Msi. 
Thats why you do RTL and IOL last on memory overclock and when you hit perfect And stable RTL and IOL you disable memory Training so all settings stay the Same. 

If you keep Training Enabled and RTL IOL on Auto it will change every reboot. 
So hit perfect RTL IOL and then disable memory Training.


----------



## t4t3r

Anyone tried the new Gskill 4266 c16 ripjaws kit that released in September?


----------



## sixty9sublime

Crucial Ballistix 3200 C16 e-die
MSI z490 Unify .2W



http://imgur.com/a/pCElFhp


----------



## Arctucas

Stable? Or another/better test required?


----------



## KedarWolf

Arctucas said:


> Stable? Or another/better test required?
> 
> View attachment 2461702


Anta Extreme is a good test. But maybe 25 cycles of 1usmus_v3?


----------



## HappyAlive

Arctucas said:


> "ubm"?
> 
> User Benchmark?


Yes.


----------



## Arctucas

HappyAlive said:


> Yes.


.02V added to what?

I would sure like to see that before/after.

Of course, User Benchmark is a dynamic database, and the result of the test today will likely be different in a week or so, if more similar hardware is tested and submitted.

I could not get above 98%, until I overclocked my 3600MHz RAM kit to 4500MHz, and got into the 100th percentile, even though all other the hardware was the same.


----------



## HappyAlive

Arctucas said:


> .02V added to what?
> 
> I would sure like to see that before/after.
> 
> Of course, User Benchmark is a dynamic database, and the result of the test today will likely be different in a week or so, if more similar hardware is tested and submitted.
> 
> I could not get above 98%, until I overclocked my 3600MHz RAM kit to 4500MHz, and got into the 100th percentile, even though all other the hardware was the same.


Vcore. Tested same day before and after.


----------



## BenchAndGames

Hello there are too many pages with comments to start looking for what I'm asking, but please

Can someone tell me what will be the max safe voltage for the VCCIO/VCCSA for 24/7 ?

Thanks


----------



## Betroz

BenchAndGames said:


> Can someone tell me what will be the max safe voltage for the VCCIO/VCCSA for 24/7 ?


Some will say up to 1.65v, others will say 1.35v. Personally I run 1.35 IO and 1.45 SA.


----------



## itssladenlol

Can somebody tell me what vcore they get under load when setting llc6 and 1.26v vcore on Asus board? 

Switched to msi and forgot to take notes. 

What compares to Asus llc6 on msi board? Llc3


----------



## Imprezzion

BenchAndGames said:


> Hello there are too many pages with comments to start looking for what I'm asking, but please
> 
> Can someone tell me what will be the max safe voltage for the VCCIO/VCCSA for 24/7 ?
> 
> Thanks


I would say 1.40v IO 1.45v SA.


----------



## Arctucas

HappyAlive said:


> Vcore. Tested same day before and after.


Same clocks and all?

That is... strange, to say the least.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

KedarWolf said:


> Anta Extreme is a good test. But maybe 25 cycles of 1usmus_v3?


run anta extreme i use it to warm my sticks before long runs on hci/ramtest depending the density you would need to play with the cycles my 64gb kit would take ages on 3 cycles..

Problem with fast sticks is they dont have enough time to warm up before consuming %s thats why i recommend to not follow %s no more... and go with long runs instead..


Finally aligned every rtls and iols on my 64gb sticks and also got stable [email protected] on quad channel reruning with 32x cache this time


----------



## ThrashZone

BenchAndGames said:


> Hello there are too many pages with comments to start looking for what I'm asking, but please
> 
> Can someone tell me what will be the max safe voltage for the VCCIO/VCCSA for 24/7 ?
> 
> Thanks


Hi,
Not a complete question you say nothing of frequencies 
With no frequencies sa & io set on auto


----------



## Muqeshem

This is my result using a z370 apex motherboard with 2102 bios to have older microcode and have TSX enabled for RPCS3 enhancement.
Voltage for cpu is 1.31 volt with llc 5 in asus motherboard. 
Memory is stable but I am having terribles with RTL and IOL, when I set memory mode to mode 2 I just can't POST for some reason. Any suggestions to tweak RTL and IOL to get 35 ns latency ?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Muqeshem said:


> View attachment 2461739
> 
> 
> 
> This is my result using a z370 apex motherboard with 2102 bios to have older microcode and have TSX enabled for RPCS3 enhancement.
> Voltage for cpu is 1.31 volt with llc 5 in asus motherboard.
> Memory is stable but I am having terribles with RTL and IOL, when I set memory mode to mode 2 I just can't POST for some reason. Any suggestions to tweak RTL and IOL to get 35 ns latency ?


iol offset (CHA&CHB)=15
DLLBWEN=4


----------



## Muqeshem

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> iol offset (CHA&CHB)=15
> DLLBWEN=4


but those two are currently set at 13 and 14 ?


----------



## BenchAndGames

Betroz said:


> Some will say up to 1.65v, others will say 1.35v. Personally I run 1.35 IO and 1.45 SA.





Imprezzion said:


> I would say 1.40v IO 1.45v SA.


Ok thanks for that!



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Not a complete question you say nothing of frequencies
> With no frequencies sa & io set on auto


I mean on general, without involving frequencies, I mean simply knowing up to what voltage I can go without damaging the CPU.
Obiusly I know that on high frequencies is where you need more voltage, on low frequencies you need lower, I mean comom thats not my question


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Muqeshem said:


> but those two are currently set at 13 and 14 ?


I mean "iol offset", not "iol". Set these will lower your rtl


----------



## ThrashZone

BenchAndGames said:


> Ok thanks for that!
> 
> 
> 
> I mean on general, without involving frequencies, I mean simply knowing up to what voltage I can go without damaging the CPU.
> Obiusly I know that on high frequencies is where you need more voltage, on low frequencies you need lower, I mean comom thats not my question


Hi,
I'd ask what is the load core voltage that would be the io & sa voltage.


----------



## Nizzen

t4t3r said:


> Anyone tried the new Gskill 4266 c16 ripjaws kit that released in September?


2x16GB 4266c*17 *and 4000c*16 *maybe?
I haven't, but want to try it


----------



## Gen.

I welcome everyone. Ordered with CU F4-3000C14D-32GTZR. I sit one at a time. One is definitely a top bar, the second I don't know yet. I will order more I think


----------



## Arctucas

OK?


----------



## itssladenlol

Is it possible to get errors in hci/Karhu cause vcore is too low? 
Prime95/realbench 8 hours is stable and hci 3000%/Karhu was 20000% was error free before i was lowering vcore. 
Now i get 2errors After 800%.
Only thing i changed is lowering vcore. 
Temps are fine.


----------



## KedarWolf

itssladenlol said:


> Is it possible to get errors in hci/Karhu cause vcore is too low?
> Prime95/realbench 8 hours is stable and hci 3000%/Karhu was 20000% was error free before i was lowering vcore.
> Now i get 2errors After 800%.
> Only thing i changed is lowering vcore.
> Temps are fine.


Yes, it also tests cache and lower vcore can cause cache errors.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

I guess 64gb @ 3800 1t is stable









Talking about windows updates been intrusive taking the fun out of it XD while i was crunching hci for almost a day


Spoiler















still have to take that update out bcuz memtweak it dont work with it anyway


----------



## JoeRambo

zGunBLADEz said:


> still have to take that update out bcuz memtweak it dont work with it anyway


Yeah it is super annoying that memtweakit stops working after certain update that blocks mechanism it uses to inject driver. Hopefully Asus will release fixed version someday, major PITA.


----------



## japau

A bit playing with the new sticks. 




























New 24/7 settings.


----------



## mouacyk

@japau Nice, those are perfectly sane voltages for that overclock and great performance! I had an 8700K also which took 2x8GB 3600CL16 to 4266-17-18-18-37-2T at 1.45v and 1.25v IO/SA. It looks like your kit is 4400CL19 and you have an apex board, so it should be easier to get 4600-4700.

Getting 4000C19 2x16GB soon. Let's hope there is no DOA stick this time, like when I got 2x16GB 3200C14 from ebay.


----------



## eeeven

got some new trident Z Sticks - working nice on XII Apex. Tested with Karhu RAMTest 1 Hour and GSAT IMC Testing.

*4500 16-17-17-32-320 1.585v Karhu RAMTest and GSAT*


And new personal Photoworxx Record on my old RipJaws V Sticks:

*4680 16-16-16-32-320 1.65v AIDA Photoworxx*


----------



## japau

mouacyk said:


> @japau Nice, those are perfectly sane voltages for that overclock and great performance! I had an 8700K also which took 2x8GB 3600CL16 to 4266-17-18-18-37-2T at 1.45v and 1.25v IO/SA. It looks like your kit is 4400CL19 and you have an apex board, so it should be easier to get 4600-4700.
> 
> Getting 4000C19 2x16GB soon. Let's hope there is no DOA stick this time, like when I got 2x16GB 3200C14 from ebay.


PC can boot 4500/4600 with 1.5 DRAM voltage, but it is nowhere stable without more serious voltages along the line for IO/SA. This is pretty sweet spot for voltages and performance and doesn't require too much to run. Actually managed to tighten a bit more and TM5 finished 60 sec faster.  










Good luck with the 2x16GB sticks, lets hope they run nicely.  Memory OC is the most interesting subjects of em all.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

yeah i think im going to let her rip a lil bit more until tomorrow


----------



## Placekicker19

Ive been testing some different ram modules and had problems with instabilities. I decided to put my old ram back in and loaded my old profile that was stable in testmem5, memtest, and prime but now I can make it around 5 minutes in testmem5 and I get a error, followed shorty by a memory management bsod. I tried uping voltages but it didnt make a difference. 

Could my windows be corrupted? I ran sfc /scannow in the command prompt and it did not find any integrity violations. When I was testing modules, I had alot of crashes and weird crash to black screens so maybe I corrupted windows.


----------



## KedarWolf

Placekicker19 said:


> Ive been testing some different ram modules and had problems with instabilities. I decided to put my old ram back in and loaded my old profile that was stable in testmem5, memtest, and prime but now I can make it around 5 minutes in testmem5 and I get a error, followed shorty by a memory management bsod. I tried uping voltages but it didnt make a difference.
> 
> Could my windows be corrupted? I ran sfc /scannow in the command prompt and it did not find any integrity violations. When I was testing modules, I had alot of crashes and weird crash to black screens so maybe I corrupted windows.


BSODs can corrupt Windows, yes. But as far as your memory instability, save a BIOS profile of your settings, set BIOS to defaults with BIOS reset button or removing CMOS battery with power supply unplugged, reboot once, boot back into the BIOS, load the saved profile.

Changing BIOS settings can cause instabilities that are only fixed by BIOS reset.

Or better yet, save your BIOS settings as a .txt file, not a loadable profile, and manually set everything again after the BIOS reset. Even loading profiles can cause errors at times.


----------



## t4t3r

Nizzen said:


> 2x16GB 4266c*17 *and 4000c*16 *maybe?
> I haven't, but want to try it


No there is a ripjaws kit that is 4266 c16 that was just released. It has been on sale at Newegg a couple times but haven’t seen any reports from owners of it. Should be great for folks here.


----------



## Placekicker19

KedarWolf said:


> BSODs can corrupt Windows, yes. But as far as your memory instability, save a BIOS profile of your settings, set BIOS to defaults with BIOS reset button or removing CMOS battery with power supply unplugged, reboot once, boot back into the BIOS, load the saved profile.
> 
> Changing BIOS settings can cause instabilities that are only fixed by BIOS reset.
> 
> Or better yet, save your BIOS settings as a .txt file, not a loadable profile, and manually set everything again after the BIOS reset. Even loading profiles can cause errors at times.


I pressed the clear cmos button when i installed my stable set of ram and loaded the stable profile from a USB and i still got the memory management bsod. In running testmem5 with ram underclocked and it hasnt bsod. Would this mean windows isnt corrupted since it can run the test with the ram underclocked fine? I just dont know why my once stable ram and over clock is now bsoding , after testing other ram. 

I'm resetting bios now with power unplugged and battery removed and I'll enter settings in manually.


----------



## Nizzen

t4t3r said:


> No there is a ripjaws kit that is 4266 c16 that was just released. It has been on sale at Newegg a couple times but haven’t seen any reports from owners of it. Should be great for folks here.


Link to 4266c16 2x16GB ? 

Ps: *4266C17D-32GVKB is the kit Luumi overclocked easy to 4700c17 *


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Ps: *4266C17D-32GVKB is the kit Luumi overclocked easy to 4700c17*


4700 C18, and he used a bit loose timings and Auto RTL and IOL.


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> 4700 C18, and he used a bit loose timings and Auto RTL and IOL.


Tnx for update 
Anyway 4700c17 is very good with 2x16. Was it tested for stability? Watched only a few minutes of the video.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Was it tested for stability?


112-140% HCI or so in the video. Stable for him maybe.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> *112-140% HCI*


ermmm


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermmm
> View attachment 2462146


We know you have memtestpro fetish


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Nizzen said:


> We know you have memtestpro fetish


Usually i dont go that long bcuz i swap the tests back and forth but yesterday was like forget it let it rip..
not like you most do it the way i do it lol but just let them overnight at least to rip lol
100-200 even 1000% at those speeds is not enough... hci takes his time to warm up the sticks very good.. thats why i started using tm5 anta extreme to warm them up before hci/ramtest.. i do 1 cycle or wathever it takes to get them to that 30min period warm up.. it will warm the sticks very good and go thru the whole space faster than hci.. and it catches intermittent errors faster than hci in the process..


the 7980xe is doing [email protected]@1t as we speak its around 24hr+ period on hci
have a bunch of issues finding the right rtls and iols specially one specific stick which likes a certain iol to be stable and dont give me a crash galore  in x299 is easy to spot lol its the one it always drops or dont want to align no matter what so let her have it loose her up lol  now if it is like weird crap 2 too far apart try lowering or raising the normal ones to match that one then try to test them like that... now you know which one is the problematic one.. even if you have 3 iols @ 8 and one at 10 it dont even matter lol as long is stable and theres some performance gained is all worth it..
after you played with MHz/primary/cmd rate and trfc/trefi everything else is scraps so if the sticks wants a higher rtl/iol to boot or achieve 200-400mhz more let her have it her way.

this 64gb kit needed 65s/10s iol to be @ 1t stable like the picture... vs the difference @ 3800 same timings @ 2t 61s/8s


mostly ram issues is not the timings is the rtls and iols and what they like.. i just copy pasted my 4000 run timings and adjusted accordingly trfc for example lol everything else is almost the same.. except for trfc and rtls and iols when you are at the edge you need on stability on ram overclocking try playing with rtls and iols and trcd loose a lil bit after that you are golden or your whole thing is a no go anyway..


----------



## Imprezzion

I got bored working from home again. Jumped back into testing.

Did have an odd thing. I just did a quick and dirty 4400-16-18-18-36-350-2T with all auto subtimings / RTL to see if I can even run C16 on 4400, passed 1 hour TM5 extreme fine.

Lowered the standard stuff like tWR, tCWL, tRTP and such to acceptable values, suddenly it does run with no errors but just hard locks the PC around 14 minutes into the test..

I've never had TM5 just hard lock the PC without giving an error..

What could that be.. my guess is IO/SA voltage or cache frequency at 5Ghz as I had the voltages quite low at 1.35v SA 1.25v IO but a hard lock is so weird to me..

I'm testing again with 1.45v SA 1.40v IO and cache dropped to 4.8 even tho 5 is stable at 4200C15.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

like solid lock probably cache / voltages issues / imc issues / cpu issues even if you are borderline imc limit like when it freezes on bios thats cpu issue not memory so lower clocks or raise voltage wathever the 2..

memory would error out or bsod


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermmm


Luumi ran HCI for 112-140%, not me.


----------



## Imprezzion

Even with higher SA/IO it got a lot more stable but not enough. 3 errors at 1.5 hours. Shame. I'll continue testing Sunday I guess.


----------



## 638220

Work in progress, quick preliminary test 10 pass run in linpack extreme v1.1.3 to see if residuals would match.
[email protected] 17-17-17-37-2T 1.45v/vdimm, 1.3v/sa-io | 4.85ghz all core, 4.4ghz cache


----------



## Placekicker19

Hey Nizzen, how do your teamgroup 4500's respond to voltage? I'm getting blackscreen crashes with anything above 1.470. I'm perfectly stable @4266 17 17 17 36 with 1.4vs but i cant do 4400 stable with any amount of voltage, tested up to 1.55, they instantly error. The patriots took 1.45 for 4266mhz cl17, but did 4400 17 17 17 36 stable @ 1.49. I thought the team group was better bin since it did 4266 with .05 less voltage. 

Ram overclocking can be so stressful. To bad rocketlake is only 8 cores, because I've exhausted my patience with z390.


----------



## Nizzen

Placekicker19 said:


> Hey Nizzen, how do your teamgroup 4500's respond to voltage? I'm getting blackscreen crashes with anything above 1.470. I'm perfectly stable @4266 17 17 17 36 with 1.4vs but i cant do 4400 stable with any amount of voltage, tested up to 1.55, they instantly error. The patriots took 1.45 for 4266mhz cl17, but did 4400 17 17 17 36 stable @ 1.49. I thought the team group was better bin since it did 4266 with .05 less voltage.
> 
> Ram overclocking can be so stressful. To bad rocketlake is only 8 cores, because I've exhausted my patience with z390.


Using 1.58 vdram  Maybe you need more cooling.


----------



## Placekicker19

Nizzen said:


> Link to 4266c16 2x16GB ?
> 
> Ps: *4266C17D-32GVKB is the kit Luumi overclocked easy to 4700c17 *





Nizzen said:


> Using 1.58 vdram  Maybe you need more cooling.


Ive got fans right on them and the heat sink temp is only 34 degrees when it crashes. Its weird testmem5 starts spitting errors within seconds, then black screen crashes and no amount of dimm, sa/io voltage helps. I even loosened timings to cl 20 20 20 44, put trfc and trefi to auto, resulting in no stability improvement.


----------



## caki

well after spending 2 weeks trying to get anything higher than [email protected] with this kit finally decided to use it as 2 x 8gb and use the other 2 for my gaming rig which needed a ram upgrade. So i got below results after tuning them manually for an hour or so. I can't touch RTL or IOLs as my system won't post even if i change a single initial to anything but auto. I believe this is limiting my latency numbers!? Also if i turn HT off on some cores, AIDA64 benchmark will just give 0 mb/s as result for read / write / copy while showing the correct latency. Maybe it's some sort of bug?

Asus XII Extreme z490 / Gskill 4000c15q-32gtrs :


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> Ive got fans right on them and the heat sink temp is only 34 degrees when it crashes. Its weird testmem5 starts spitting errors within seconds, then black screen crashes and no amount of dimm, sa/io voltage helps. I even loosened timings to cl 20 20 20 44, put trfc and trefi to auto, resulting in no stability improvement.


Black Screen crashes are 99% too low trdwr_SG trdwr_dg trdwr_Dr values. Try upping each by 2


----------



## 638220

Luumi's 4700c17 wasn't stable, error within 10 seconds of hci. Still a nice overclock though, that guy can oc.


----------



## Placekicker19

itssladenlol said:


> Black Screen crashes are 99% too low trdwr_SG trdwr_dg trdwr_Dr values. Try upping each by 2


I'll give it try, thanks


----------



## 638220

[email protected]/4.44GHzCache 8C/16T | [email protected]Hz 17-17-17-37-2T HCImemtest 400%
Bios set values: 1.45v/Vdimm 1.3v/SA-IO
XMP Disabled
Ramkit: GSkill F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
Cooling:NZXT Krakenx72 360mm aio w/conductonaut, 140mm fan(vrms), 120mm fan(ram)

HCImemtest validation 400%








Quick 10 pass linpack extreme 1.1.3 run to make sure residuals matched + obligatory aida64 benchmark








Geekbench3 performance









I tried for 4266 with higher busclock but it kept freezing. I am guessing 4242MHz at 17-17-17-37-2T is the most I can get out of my 4x8GB kit at 1.45v/vdimm otherwise it probably would have been sold as a [email protected] 4x8gb 1.45v/vdimm kit. Or maybe I haven't explored enough yet . Maybe 4266+ requires 17-18-18-38 or something i dunno. May just try 4242MHz @ 16-16-16-36 or 16-16-16-34 with 1.5v/vdimm in hci.


----------



## YoungChris

Got a pretty nice daily overclock here. 3950mhz 15-15-15-28 280 1t on 2x16gb B-Die with fully cranked subtimings. 1.25vio/sa, 1.5vdimm real.








Not really formally stable, maybe with some more work I could get it fully passing memtest. However, it hasn't crashed in any of the games I play, so that's good enough right now. I do wish 4000 ratio would boot with these settings.


----------



## Betroz

YoungChris said:


> Not really formally stable


Remember the title for this thread


----------



## Nizzen

YoungChris said:


> Got a pretty nice daily overclock here. 3950mhz 15-15-15-28 280 1t on 2x16gb B-Die with fully cranked subtimings. 1.25vio/sa, 1.5vdimm real.
> View attachment 2462225
> 
> Not really formally stable, maybe with some more work I could get it fully passing memtest. However, it hasn't crashed in any of the games I play, so that's good enough right now. I do wish 4000 ratio would boot with these settings.


Not stable and no Aida64. Pleace try again 😂


----------



## Imprezzion

blacknbigger212 said:


> [email protected]/4.44GHzCache 8C/16T | [email protected] 17-17-17-37-2T HCImemtest 400%
> Bios set values: 1.45v/Vdimm 1.3v/SA-IO
> XMP Disabled
> Ramkit: GSkill F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
> Cooling:NZXT Krakenx72 360mm aio w/conductonaut, 140mm fan(vrms), 120mm fan(ram)
> 
> HCImemtest validation 400%
> View attachment 2462219
> 
> Quick 10 pass linpack extreme 1.1.3 run to make sure residuals matched + obligatory aida64 benchmark
> View attachment 2462220
> 
> 
> I tried for 4266 with higher busclock but it kept freezing. I am guessing 4242MHz at 17-17-17-37-2T is the most I can get out of my 4x8GB kit at 1.45v/vdimm otherwise it probably would have been sold as a [email protected] 4x8gb 1.45v/vdimm kit. Or maybe I haven't explored enough yet . Maybe 4266+ requires 17-18-18-38 or something i dunno. May just try 4242MHz @ 16-16-16-36 or 16-16-16-34 with 1.5v/vdimm in hci.


What kinda voltage is that poor CPU running like.. a X73 with conductonaut should not be running 90c in linpack on that low of a CPU clock.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

i guess is hci stable lol... last hkepc screenshot before turning it off and start ramtest lol
70hrs 


Spoiler


----------



## hackasynthetic

caki said:


> I can't touch RTL or IOLs as my system won't post even if i change a single initial to anything but auto.


*tl;dr:* could be that *BCLK Amplitude* is too low(ie. 700mV), I've found that it works for me when it's on *Auto* instead.

I've had that happen yesterday with:
*BCLK Amplitude*: 700mV
*BCLK Frequency Slew Rate*: 80us/MHz

In other words, it would most of the time POST into safe mode(press F1 to enter setup) after like 2 minutes of pre-POST memory training failing, which would only happen at cold boots ie. after a shutdown/poweroff. When it would POST (due to luck), it would take 20 seconds of pre-POST black screen(ie. memory training, presumably, due to yellow/red leds moving around), but then everything would seem to work fine in Windows or memtest86, and even warm boots. But then a cold boot (ie. shutdown first), would trigger this failure to POST most of the time.

Furthermore(and this is where it matches what you said) if I were to change the values on the RTL/IOLs page, from Auto to whatever Auto detected when it would POST, it would consistently fail to POST after that (that is, it would POST 2mins later in safe-POST mode). Technically it would work with manual values until I also changed the RTL ones (as last to be changed) - can't find the article but it recommended to change IOLoffsets, reboot, change IOLs, reboot, then change RTLs last, reboot and see if it boots (well for me it didn't at this last step, even though the values were the same as Auto detected them).

But then when the two BCLK settings were both on *Auto*, I'd get 5 sec fast boot regardless of cold/warm boots and regardless of Auto or manually entered values on RTL/IOL page. The only time it would take longer(by like 5-10 secs) if when I'd change DLLBwEn from Auto to 1 or 2.

I suspect it was actually only the 700mV because it was the lowest value, but I've no idea which value Auto chooses! (I didn't test further though, so I don't know if both BCLK settings are needed to be on Auto, or only one of them, to fix this)

The kind of memory training that would happen pre-POST (and would only happen during cold boots, and not when MRC Fast Path was Disabled and just doing warm boots which I know it also does memory training), with the two non-Auto BCLK settings, sometimes(depending on what other settings I would change, memory-related) it would actually shutoff the power and turn it back on again on its own, all pre-POST, and could do this for 4+ times, before deciding to show me the F1 key safe mode POST screen.

Further more, I've had it at 3200Mhz memory overclock(instead of 3600Mhz which was the case above) which would do this shutoff-turnon pre-POST (only after at a cold boot (ie. shutdown from Windows, then start it back up from power button)), and I thought that since increasing the VCCSA and VCCIO voltages from 1.10V to 1.15V fixed it(that is, it wouldn't auto-shutoff multiple times during pre-POST when doing a cold boot), that that was the culprit, but nope, it is the BCLK Amplitude being too low(at 700mV, vs the Auto value).


----------



## 638220

Imprezzion said:


> What kinda voltage is that poor CPU running like.. a X73 with conductonaut should not be running 90c in linpack on that low of a CPU clock.


The cpu has a concave IHS, it's not completely flat. It's also not delided. There are only 3 fans on the rad on one side. I gave it the voltage it needed to be stable. Voltage is dvid mode, powersaving ac/dc preset, +80mv offset and vcore llc set to normal. Nothing else I can do on my end in regards to temps unless I want to void my warranty or spend minimum 400 dollars on custom watercooling, neither of these ideas appeal to me.


----------



## Betroz

zGunBLADEz said:


> i guess is hci stable lol... last hkepc screenshot before turning it off and start ramtest lol
> 70hrs


70 is not enough. Real men run HCI all week long....


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Betroz said:


> 70 is not enough. Real men run HCI all week long....


oh man then im screw with this one lol

main reason i like running long period of time hcis i can do "on the fly small tweaks with memtweak it" asus better fix that crap with that windows update lol

now you see it










later on .... now you dont lol











The dark with the xoc bios would love those sticks lol


----------



## hackasynthetic

zGunBLADEz said:


> oh man then im screw with this one lol
> 
> main reason i like running long period of time hcis i can do "on the fly small tweaks with memtweak it" asus better fix that crap with that windows update lol
> 
> now you see it
> 
> View attachment 2462275
> 
> 
> later on .... now you dont lol
> 
> View attachment 2462274
> 
> 
> 
> The dark with the xoc bios would love those sticks lol


Have you noticed that tWR if left on Auto in BIOS is detected wrongly by Mem TweakIt ? on (some)Intel boards that is, where it's supposed to be computed as: tWR = tWRPRE - tCWL - 4 // "On some Intel motherboards, tWR has to be left on auto and controlled through tWRPRE. Dropping tWRPRE by 1 will drop tWR by 1, following the rule tWR = tWRPRE - tCWL - 4." -source.
But it's correctly detected by ASRock Timing Configurator.

I've tested only Mem_TweakIt_WIN10-64_V2.02.41_1025.zip sha256: 1cf2bb51afe673111564a551e5bb2659fec6dea830031d60580ebb09ce65352a

I mean look, detected as tWR=24 by MemTweakIt:







but correctly detected as tWR=17 by AIDA64(seen as Write Recovery Time aka WR) and ASRock Timing Configurator:













Then after changing it in BIOS, it's correctly detected as tWR=17 in MemTweakIt too:


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> 70 is not enough. Real men run HCI all week long....


A week pfftt, it's a month for true believers!!

Gone back to my old 4200c17 memory profile while I try to figure out why my 4300c17 has gone unstable, The occasional error in TM5.
We are coming in to summer and my coolant temp is up 3 or 4°c so I need to figure out what settings to change to make it less temperature sensitive


----------



## hackasynthetic

Hey, can someone who thinks their system is stable try this TM5 config? I've noticed that 1usmus config won't find any error for me after hours of testing (longest consecutive hours being 2h50mins) but then I'd run this extreme1_3 config and would find just 1 error in less than 54 mins, multiple times had tried this. Last run was in under 19 mins found 1 error.

It's basically only the test 3 from extreme1 config, on repeat.



INI:


Memory Test config file v0.02
Copyrights to the program belong to me.
Serj
testmem.tz.ru
[email protected]

[Main Section]
Config Name=Extreme1_3
Config Author=anta777
Cores=0
Tests=4
Time (%)=500
Cycles=60
Language=0
Test Sequence=3

[Global Memory Setup]
Channels=2
Interleave Type=1
Single DIMM width, bits=64
Operation Block, byts=64
Testing Window Size (Mb)=1536
Lock Memory Granularity (Mb)=16
Reserved Memory for Windows (Mb)=128
Capable=0x0
Debug Level=7

[Window Position]
WindowPosX=1
WindowPosY=1

[Test0]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=RefreshStable
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=0
Test Block Size (Mb)=0

[Test1]
Enable=1
Time (%)=20
Function=MirrorMove
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=4
Test Block Size (Mb)=0

[Test2]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=MirrorMove128
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=2
Test Block Size (Mb)=0

[Test3]
Enable=1
Time (%)=100
Function=SimpleTest
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=1
Pattern Param0=0x1E5F
Pattern Param1=0x45357354
Parameter=256
Test Block Size (Mb)=4

I'm still in the process of determining why the error happens, hopefully not a TM5 bug, but I'm guessing I need more VCCSA/IO voltage because I'd get more errors (even with 1usmus) before with 1.10V, but not anymore now with 1.15V (only that stray one) and varying the DRAM Voltage from 1.38 to 1.37 (in about 3 steps so far) didn't really make a difference(still 1 error in less than 54mins, except the last one where I looked earlier than befores, at 19min mark). Any ideas?

*EDIT:* found the problem, looks like this is a good way to detect if tRCD/tRP needs to be relaxed by 1 (on my Intel board Asus Prime Z370-A they are both locked to the same value), as 15-15-15-32 would fail test 3 just like I've mentioned above, but 15-16-16-33 wouldn't fail anymore!
(note: not tRAS because I remember having tried 15-15-15-34 and still failed)


----------



## Placekicker19

My 4400 cl17 profile is no longer stable. I make it between 5-10 minutes in testmem5 before encountering a error. I just don't understand, all i did was test some new ram which began having stability issues and then i switched back to my old proven kit and the errors continued.

Loosening timing drastically doesnt stop the errors, voltages have no effect what so ever. I have reinstalled windows and my motherboard bios which made no difference. Ive tried with cache from 4.7 to 4.9, to rule out run high of a cache. Maybe the motherboard dimm slots was damage. I just don't understand how 4400c17 has been stable and now cant pass 10 minutes of tm5. Ive never had stability degrade instantly. The first time I put my old sticks back in and loaded my stable profile I made it 30mins. In Testmem5 then got a memory management bsod. Now i cant make it past 10 minutes before it starts to errors.


----------



## Jpmboy

Placekicker19 said:


> My 4400 cl17 profile is no longer stable. I make it between 5-10 minutes in testmem5 before encountering a error. I just don't understand, all i did was test some new ram which began having stability issues and then i switched back to my old proven kit and the errors continued.
> 
> Loosening timing drastically doesnt stop the errors, voltages have no effect what so ever. I have reinstalled windows and my motherboard bios which made no difference. Ive tried with cache from 4.7 to 4.9, to rule out run high of a cache. Maybe the motherboard dimm slots was damage. I just don't understand how 4400c17 has been stable and now cant pass 10 minutes of tm5. Ive never had stability degrade instantly. The first time I put my old sticks back in and loaded my stable profile I made it 30mins. In Testmem5 then got a memory management bsod. Now i cant make it past 10 minutes before it starts to errors.


pull the sticks and clean out the slots and ram contact flange. Use Rubbing alcohol on the ram stick contacts.


----------



## Placekicker19

Jpmboy said:


> pull the sticks and clean out the slots and ram contact flange. Use Rubbing alcohol on the ram stick contacts.


Used my duster on the ram slots and cleaned the sticks with alcohol . 4400mhz loosened timings and rtls4 and it made it 4 minutes before it started spitting multiple errors. 4400 cl17 with tight timing lasted 7 minutes. Ive test gskill, patriots and teamgroups.


----------



## Placekicker19

Well i think I finally found my problem. I decided to test each ram slot individually on the z390 dark. The slot closest to the cpu took 1.4 sa and io just to train 4400 cl17 and it failed within 2 minutes of testmem5. The other dimm slot trained 4400 cl17 with 1.25 sa/io and has past testmem5 twice without error.

Im glad i figured out what the issue is, it just sucks my motherboards dimm is faulty. When dimm slots fail do they nornally start producing errors like I'm experiencing? I wiggled dimm around and applied firm pressure to make the ran was seated properly and this time it made it 16 minutes before the errors. So it definitely seems theres connection issue with the dimm in that dimm slot. I guess ill have to rma the board


----------



## zGunBLADEz

hackasynthetic said:


> Have you noticed that tWR if left on Auto in BIOS is detected wrongly by Mem TweakIt ? on (some)Intel boards that is, where it's supposed to be computed as: tWR = tWRPRE - tCWL - 4 // "On some Intel motherboards, tWR has to be left on auto and controlled through tWRPRE. Dropping tWRPRE by 1 will drop tWR by 1, following the rule tWR = tWRPRE - tCWL - 4." -source.
> But it's correctly detected by ASRock Timing Configurator.
> 
> I've tested only Mem_TweakIt_WIN10-64_V2.02.41_1025.zip sha256: 1cf2bb51afe673111564a551e5bb2659fec6dea830031d60580ebb09ce65352a
> 
> I mean look, detected as tWR=24 by MemTweakIt:
> View attachment 2462287
> 
> but correctly detected as tWR=17 by AIDA64(seen as Write Recovery Time aka WR) and ASRock Timing Configurator:
> View attachment 2462288
> View attachment 2462289
> 
> Then after changing it in BIOS, it's correctly detected as tWR=17 in MemTweakIt too:
> View attachment 2462290
> View attachment 2462292
> View attachment 2462291


Yeah it happens but in my case for example asrock dont work at all in neither the x299 evga boards at all it dont show nothing.. The only issue i have sometimes on memtweak it is with the speed and is only at 3800 it will show sometimes the correct speed or 3733... Same on 4000 it will show something like 3990.. Everything else is correctly readed.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Placekicker19 said:


> Well i think I finally found my problem. I decided to test each ram slot individually on the z390 dark. The slot closest to the cpu took 1.4 sa and io just to train 4400 cl17 and it failed within 2 minutes of testmem5. The other dimm slot trained 4400 cl17 with 1.25 sa/io and has past testmem5 twice without error.
> 
> Im glad i figured out what the issue is, it just sucks my motherboards dimm is faulty. When dimm slots fail do they nornally start producing errors like I'm experiencing? I wiggled dimm around and applied firm pressure to make the ran was seated properly and this time it made it 16 minutes before the errors. So it definitely seems theres connection issue with the dimm in that dimm slot. I guess ill have to rma the board


Did you try my suggestion i posted few pages back?
Try raising cl+1 more leave everything else as it is.

Then play with the rtls/iols afterwards to try to lower them or align them or find the culprit stick.

Its complicated and funny at the same time rtls/iols go with the cl maybe is required to loose him up. In the bigger picture prefer 200-400mhz more on a looser cl than just fight to tight him down.

Sometimes you would end with something like 17/15/15 but with extra 200-400mhz.. Less voltage too on the bigger picture is better and the higher cl vs the gains. Is a wash trying to pair them with the rest you guys should try it


----------



## Betroz

Nothing new or special for the regular stalkers that lurks in here, but it may be handy for some :


----------



## Placekicker19

zGunBLADEz said:


> Did you try my suggestion i posted few pages back?
> Try raising cl+1 more leave everything else as it is.
> 
> Then play with the rtls/iols afterwards to try to lower them or align them or find the culprit stick.
> 
> Its complicated and funny at the same time rtls/iols go with the cl maybe is required to loose him up. In the bigger picture prefer 200-400mhz more on a looser cl than just fight to tight him down.
> 
> Sometimes you would end with something like 17/15/15 but with extra 200-400mhz.. Less voltage too on the bigger picture is better and the higher cl vs the gains. Is a wash trying to pair them with the rest you guys should try it


Yes , i tried cleaning the ram and I used the air duster on the ram slot. Ive tested 3 different brands of ram with the same results. The slot closest to cpu wont train unless it has 1.4v sa/io voltages, and even then it takes forever to train. It starts spitting errors in testmem5 after a couple minutes . It doesn't matter if the ram is @ 4400 17 17 17 36 or 4400 20 20 20 44 the errors normally happen around 5 minutes. I tested all different combinations of sa and io too. I also noticed when running 16gb the I had a very hard time getting ram to train @ 4000 and above, the rtls were always off , i would have to manually set rtls for it to ever train. When I got the board it never had a issue training 4400 tight timings.

The other ram slot trains fine, with only 1.24 sa and io and ran testmem5 @ 4400 c17 17 17 36 without error. I even tested 4400 cl16 17 17 and it passed that without error too. 

Im going to get some of that electronic contact cleaner and attempt to clean the ram slot before i rma. I wonder if a dirty cpu socket pin could cause one ram slot to work and the other to not.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Its like me i can do 4200 on x299 stable on 8gb sticks but i need to find the right combination for it..

It takes time and trial and error. And is related to the cl/rtls and iols once on windows i can squeeze the sticks with memtweak it.. And stress test them It varies with the ram kit. Even if they train and align still would error galore my ass like it aint crap.. I need to adjust the rtls and iols in such a way that it dont give me no errors anything below 16s @4200 its just suicide benches on cold boots. The other older b die kits i had liked to be @ 17/20/17 for 4200 stability even @4000 would ask 16/19/16s and it has to be specific like this on cold boot.
16/19/[email protected] 63/65/63/65 & 8/10/8/8 other wise would error out even if i manage to raise them to 65/65/65/65 and 10/10/10/10 the vipers can do 16/16/16 from cold boot but required the same rtls 63/65/63/65 & 8/10/8/8 if i touch any of that thats it lol .. cl 14&15s are all day long very bencheable with the right ((OVER VOLTAGE)) lol once in windows.. 

Even after i find his quirks and try to put them manually would either drop stick or two or if i manage to boot would error out before windows boot or even on an aida run. Or just crash. But if i put it the way she likes it she will crunch no problems wathever you throw at her.
And is.not related to just booting/training is signaling what the cpu/mobo liked.. Booting them up at 61/61/61/61 8/8/8/8 never been a problem is maintaining stability finding the right signal/combo is your goal..

I still saw gains like that so was well worth it.

Now i know what the new kit of vipers 4400 can do here after all my testings.. I need to see if they play nice now with my 24/7 overclock which consist on adaptive with a negative offset with -1 avx @47x @ 33x cache.... i have to retest my regular overclocks as well not just the ram.. i dont know if the cpu/vccio/mesh need more voltage or need to drop my mesh down to achieve stability etc... or how much volts are needed and if they worth the trouble of having [email protected] vs [email protected] etc.... as i just tested the ram @ 31x mesh instead of 33x mesh to have some idea... then after i think is cool i redo another run of hci with my regular overclock and call it a day on the sticks..

All those voltages fluctuations on adaptive are cool and everything specially for different types of loads to save alot of heat but you need to re-test previous overclocks on new ram settings..I start with rog bench then i throw blender at her.. then some x264 v2 and watch for times and dropped jobs.. Need to see all around different types of loads.. Blender is the heater one ..


----------



## Imprezzion

The Z490 Ace got a new Beta BIOS. A2W. It has way better memory OC compatibility.

I mean, I'm now just smashing the IMC limit like nothing. I can boot easily on 4800Mhz memory like it's nothing. It even trains just fine.

I mean, I need some serious voltages and I doubt it's very stable but before it would not POST past 4600Mhz.

I'm going to try to do some TM5 on 4700/4800 for the heck of it lol. Let's go nice and loose on the timings, 18-20-20-40-400-2T should do..

EDIT: So, just yoinking voltage at the problem isn't exactly helping. It got WAY more unstable when I just yeeted 1.55v SA 1.50v IO and 1.65v DRAM at it.
So far i haven't been able to get 4700 to do anything useful. 4600 at lower voltages (1.5v SA 1.45v IO 1.56v DRAM) seems to behave tho. 12 minutes into TM5, no errors yet. I am running super super loose timings 19-21-21-45-500 with RTL/IO well into the 70's just to see if the frequency is even attainable but yeah. So far it looks promising.


----------



## hackasynthetic

hackasynthetic said:


> I'm still in the process of determining why the error happens,


Finally found out it was happening only when, all other timings being on Auto, main timings were 15-15-15-32 (fails test 3 of TM5 within 1 hour) but not when they are 15-16-16-33 (after almost 5 hours of test 3, no errors yet)
Lesson learned, don't assume it's stable by doing short-time tests.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> The Z490 Ace got a new Beta BIOS. A2W. It has way better memory OC compatibility.
> 
> I mean, I'm now just smashing the IMC limit like nothing. I can boot easily on 4800Mhz memory like it's nothing. It even trains just fine.
> 
> I mean, I need some serious voltages and I doubt it's very stable but before it would not POST past 4600Mhz.
> 
> I'm going to try to do some TM5 on 4700/4800 for the heck of it lol. Let's go nice and loose on the timings, 18-20-20-40-400-2T should do..
> 
> EDIT: So, just yoinking voltage at the problem isn't exactly helping. It got WAY more unstable when I just yeeted 1.55v SA 1.50v IO and 1.65v DRAM at it.
> So far i haven't been able to get 4700 to do anything useful. 4600 at lower voltages (1.5v SA 1.45v IO 1.56v DRAM) seems to behave tho. 12 minutes into TM5, no errors yet. I am running super super loose timings 19-21-21-45-500 with RTL/IO well into the 70's just to see if the frequency is even attainable but yeah. So far it looks promising.


Looks good mate  
I found for testing ram on the Apex XII that GSAT finds certain errors faster than TM5 with my older 3600c16 ram


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Looks good mate
> I found for testing ram on the Apex XII that GSAT finds certain errors faster than TM5 with my older 3600c16 ram


Yeah I'll probably switch to gsat as I am just short term testing now. I think honestly I'm at the limit of the IMC. I got to the point TM5 will fail around the 30 minute mark no matter the timings or voltages. I played around with the nom values and stuff like termination but nothing seems to help. Fails around the same point every time with like 3 errors. 4500 passes just fine tho so I think my IMC just isn't very happy at 4600. 

It's not something I'd consider running 24/7 with how high IO/SA has to be and latency isn't any better then 4200C15 and all it has is slightly higher bandwidth. Was fun tho to find out.


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> Looks good mate
> I found for testing ram on the Apex XII that GSAT finds certain errors faster than TM5 with my older 3600c16 ram


GSAT will also get errors on CPU/cache instability, even if your memory overclock is stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

KedarWolf said:


> GSAT will also get errors on CPU/cache instability, even if your memory overclock is stable.


I am still quite confused why my RAM only runs any overclock stable at +2 tRP and tRCD. Stock is obviously 3600 16-16-16-36 and I see many people here running like, 4200 at 16-16-16 but I can't get a anywhere near that. 15-17-17 is fine, 16-16-16, nope. Same on 4400. 17-19-19 is fine, 17-18-18, nope. 17-17-17 doesn't even train.


----------



## Jpmboy

munternet said:


> Looks good mate
> I found for testing ram on the Apex XII that GSAT finds certain errors faster than TM5 with my older 3600c16 ram





KedarWolf said:


> GSAT will also get errors on CPU/cache instability, even if your memory overclock is stable.


For sure. TM5 is easy and pretty good. I have not found anything that will uncover instability as well as GSAT. Pass 1 or 2 hours of GSAT and the ram is good... on any platform or number of channels.


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> GSAT will also get errors on CPU/cache instability, even if your memory overclock is stable.


Will that happen if the CPU was tested stable prior to overclocking the ram?


----------



## Jpmboy

It can if the CPU was "tested stable" in a manner which cannot load the IMC and IO (cache/ring) sufficiently, or more accurately the way GSAT does. Not that GSAT is the best way to test CPU and IO stability, but it does load the IO (cache, system agent) better than most.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

What kind of memtest u guys use to determine? Fast and heavy. I used unimusv3 and it shows no error but ollie config pops up 1 error near 2 hours long.


----------



## KedarWolf

Thanh Nguyen said:


> What kind of memtest u guys use to determine? Fast and heavy. I used unimusv3 and it shows no error but ollie config pops up 1 error near 2 hours long.


Try Anta Extreme.









Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs


Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app




www.overclock.net





Edit: To change the language to English, edit the .cfg file and change Language=1 to Language=0


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

KedarWolf said:


> Try Anta Extreme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: To change the language to English, edit the .cfg file and change Language=1 to Language=0


How long anta extreme take? I have it running for an hour already.


----------



## KedarWolf

Thanh Nguyen said:


> How long anta extreme take? I have it running for an hour already.


Maybe 2.5 hours. And usmus .cfg you want to change to 25 cycles. Takes like 3 hours. The default 3 cycles not near long enough.


----------



## ducegt

Does nobody here sleep? Testing for many hours while sleeping is possible.


----------



## Imprezzion

Too much rainbow barf and no real way to turn it off easily hehe.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> I am still quite confused why my RAM only runs any overclock stable at +2 tRP and tRCD. Stock is obviously 3600 16-16-16-36 and I see many people here running like, 4200 at 16-16-16 but I can't get a anywhere near that. 15-17-17 is fine, 16-16-16, nope. Same on 4400. 17-19-19 is fine, 17-18-18, nope. 17-17-17 doesn't even train.


Same with my RAM sticks. 16-17-17 works, but not 17-18-18. Straight timings even worse. So I run them at 4200 16-17-17-34.


----------



## PipJones

Hi, nice to see a few familiar names lurking in here!

I'm new to the X299 world but have a few years experience with X99. I have recently purchased a Strix X299-XE Gaming and 7800X and I am trying to get some "designed for X99" older DDR4-3400 working with it.

Can anyone help?

This is the memory kit:






DOMINATOR® PLATINUM 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4 DRAM 3400MHz C16 Memory Kit — Limited Edition Orange


The Gigabyte X99-SOC Champion motherboard is custom-built for overclocking, and this limited edition kit is designed for the Champion. It has a unique top bar that perfectly matches the Champion’s orange color theme, and it’s guaranteed to run at 3400MHz at ambient room temperature.




www.corsair.com





*Edit: CMD16GX4M4B3400C16 is on QVL list. (https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...l_CoreX-SeriesCPU_6core_or_above_DRAM_QVL.pdf)


I have them running at 3000 15-17-17-34, with 1hr stability test complete. The problem i'm having is that if i go above 3000 the board drops channels.

So far i have tried:

increased DRAM voltage
XMP timings for 3200 and 3400
manual timings based on SPD
CPU Voltage tweaks
SA Voltage tweaks
DRAM Voltage tweaks (up to 1.36)

Can anyone suggest an approach for getting them to 3400?

Does anyone have any recommended reading/watching for tuning memory on this platform?

Many thanks


----------



## Placekicker19

I got some electrical contact cleaner and used a toothbrush to clean my memory slot, thats been causing bsods and errors. I ran tm5 @ 4400 cl17 17 17 36 and passed without error. Ive always kept my case clean and well maintained, first thing I did when I started having ram issues was, use a air duster to blow out the ram slot, and I was not expecting the electrical cleaner to work. Maybe something contaminated the slot when i was testing the new memory. 

Evga approved the rma, but as along as its working now theres no need, I just hope i dont have future issues with that ram slot.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions i received.


----------



## hackasynthetic

I have stumbled upon something of an oddity today:
with *OREF_RI* on *Auto* the following BIOS-saved .cfg will POST just fine within 10 seconds. But if I set *OREF_RI* to the value *64* (which is what Auto always finds as the current value is seen inside BIOS), then it will always POST in safe mode - which is that instability screen with press F1 to enter setup.

(unrelated)Guess I've to add this to the other BIOS bug whereby QFan Tuning detects the lower fan limits wrongly and thus disallows me to enter a value below 60 percent(of fan speed, "_Chasis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%)_") for the chassis fans and the M.2. fan, meanwhile the limit is detected just fine within DIP5 (at +- 20-30-40%).









the BIOS cfg:


Code:


[2020/10/19 13:41:25]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:133]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3600MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.50]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [255.50]
Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.3926]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [-]
- CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [33]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
DRAM Refresh Interval [Auto]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [Auto]
DRAM Write Latency [13]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [Auto]
tRDWR_dg [Auto]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [Auto]
tRDWR_dd [Auto]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [8]
tWRRD_dr [Auto]
tWRRD_dd [Auto]
TWRPRE [27]
TRDPRE [Auto]
tREFIX9 [Auto]
OREF_RI [Auto]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [Standard Profile]
DLLBwEn [Auto]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]
Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
Package Power Time Window [127]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
ASPM [Disabled]
L1 Substates [Disabled]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Disabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Disabled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Disabled]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Disabled]
VT-d [Enabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Disabled]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [Auto]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
Generic Storage Device 0.00 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [70]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Lower Temperature [40]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [70]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [60]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [60]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [3600restable]
Save to Profile [7]

Furthermore, I've noticed that with tWRWR_sg/dg/dr/dd at 7/4/9/9 in memtest86 (v8.4 Free, by PassMark) it shows the Memory speed at 25.32 GB/s while testing (note: I've no pictures/screenshots of this), regardless of how many boots(warm/cold) I do, it's always the same value. However if I set 7/4/8/8 (or 6/4/7/8) then it's always 25.00 GB/s, thus slower. But in AIDA64 this 7/4/8/8 is faster by 600MB/s than 7/4/9/9 in the Write area, possibly due to RTT/IOLs being changed, unsure.

7/4/8/8:













7/4/8/8 after power off (RTL/IOL changed due to memory training):













7/4/8/8 AIDA64 speeds (2 consecutive tries):














now 7/4/9/9:













still 7/4/9/9 after poweroff:













and 7/4/9/9 AIDA64:














now, 6/4/7/8:













3 consecutive AIDAs:




















They are 4 sticks of 16GB each, made from 2 kits of GTZ and GTZKW, that's G.Skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZ Trident Z DDR4-3200MHz CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 32GB (2x16GB) . More screens here.

Btw, is there anything against using *BCLK Amplitude* 1000mV instead of Auto ? (i know that 700mV doesn't work because it fails memory-training pre-POST and it's doing several auto-shutoffs during it). There are other values I haven't tried: 800,900 mV.
Like, does it increase temps or shorten life of anything? or are all voltage values supposed to be supported due to standards?

*EDIT: since I am the last poster, I edit this instead of making new post!
*


PipJones said:


> Does anyone have any recommended reading/watching for tuning memory on this platform?


Can recommend, from my limited (2 week) noobish experience of never having to overclock RAM before, this https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md and then use first MemTest86 (eg. v8.4 Free, from PassMark) test #6 only (it tests the IMC or so I hear - but I've seen it fail only test 6 while all others pass! from my tries), for at least those 4 passes(Free version won't allow you to do more than 4 passes, automatically that is). If that works, you could next do a full memtest of all tests, but I usually don't bother and just go directly into Windows and run instead TM5 (testmem5) in Windows, with test number 3 of extreme1 config (I've it extracted test 3 as a config here(it's just test 3 from extreme1 which would otherwise only run once within the extreme1 config at the end of its cycle; just don't copy/paste the first line "INI:" which was just for syntax coloring here on the forum) because if this test #3 fails within like 1 hour, it probably, it seems, means that you need to relax tRCD and tRP(which are probably linked, so you only see tRCD value in BIOS, relax=increase value by 1) and thus also relax tRAS as it's = tCL+tRCD+2). If it doesn't fail then you could try 1usmus_v3.cfg and/or extreme1 for like 6 hours  ... or less if you want to risk it like I did (and ended up wasting more time). Instead of(or in addition to) TM5, you could run Prime95 for like 5 mins(or way more if _in addition to_), which would also detect some memory errors faster than TM5, but I forget currently in which case that happened.

I'd also recommend that *BCLK Amplitude* is either on Auto or just more than 700mV(which is lowest value on my Asus Prime Z370-A; I'm currently using 1000mV which is max, without having a good reason for using it instead of Auto, and currently not knowing if 1000mV is bad for components or not), otherwise you may see failed memory-training pre-POST with several auto-shutoffs(ie. the mobo turns itself off) during it - from my experience - especially after you power off(or shutdown from Windows) then try to start it again.
Oh and I recommend a poweroff/shutdown before doing any test, as that's ensuring that it will still power on (it won't if BCLK Amplitude is 700mV, for me it didn't), as some kind of memory training is happening when PC does cold boot(which to me means, power off then start up by pressing power button; not necessarily unplug power in-between) instead of warm boot(ie. Restart from Windows) (even if you have MRC Fast Boot - Disabled (which presumably does memory training upon each boot, be it warm or cold boot), doing a cold boot is still better to detect if it still boots after having changed timings/voltages and it POSTed once)

That's all I can think of right now, hope that helps.


----------



## Jpmboy

Placekicker19 said:


> I got some electrical contact cleaner and used a toothbrush to clean my memory slot, thats been causing bsods and errors. I ran tm5 @ 4400 cl17 17 17 36 and passed without error. Ive always kept my case clean and well maintained, first thing I did when I started having ram issues was, use a air duster to blow out the ram slot, and I was not expecting the electrical cleaner to work. Maybe something contaminated the slot when i was testing the new memory.
> 
> Evga approved the rma, but as along as its working now theres no need, I just hope i dont have future issues with that ram slot.
> 
> I appreciate all the help and suggestions i received.


running the slot hot simply in air will cause an oxidation layer. This is expected, but sometimes the contact surfaces just simply require cleaning especially when you are running edge conditions where the signal margins get real low.


----------



## zeejc

Any suggestions? I'm looking to continue improving this and am not 100% sure what else im missing.


----------



## hackasynthetic

zeejc said:


> Any suggestions? I'm looking to continue improving this and am not 100% sure what else im missing.
> View attachment 2462502
> View attachment 2462503


Why tRAS=28 instead of tCL+tRCD+2 ? (aka 16+16+2=34) isn't it faster ? as per doc saying: "Setting tRAS lower than this can incur a performance penalty."

Is RAM 8Gb B-die ? if so, tRFC=325 seems like a typo for 3*52* (as per "ns * ddr_freq / 2000", 160ns*4400Mhz/2000=352tRFC), if not, I don't know, is it stable?

Otherwise, happy to see the very nice DIMM temps, RAM running at 4.4Ghz and CPU at 5.1Ghz  (my CPU is at 4.7Ghz, RAM at 3600, (4)DIMM temps 35(idle) to 47(TM5 load) Celsius, for comparison)


*EDIT: *instead of making a new post, I'm adding the new info here (because this is the last post in the thread, at this time - forum rules)

Looks like I misunderstood the docs when they said: "After you've finished tightening the timings, you can increase IOL offsets to reduce IOLs. Make sure to run a memory test after. More info here."
I thought you have to increase the value of "IOL offsets", to get more MB/sec speed and less latency eg. in AIDA64 Cache & Memory Benchmark. But it's the other way around: I've to decrease the value of IOL offsets to get that.

*EDIT2: *Made a small table with min-max values from the below screens:

ReadWriteCopyLatencyIOL OffsetPerfMarkIO LatencyRTT51859-5194954441-5446752603-5265543.8-43.9234518-454512-1366-6651981-5201354466-5458052690-5274743.6-43.9214516-452613-1564-6652010-5202454551-5458052644-5270943.1-43.319unknown13-1562-6452150-5225654466-5450152660-5286741.7-41.8144604-460913-1458-58

Here's "proof":
IOL offsets at 23(it won't POST if higher):






















































































IOL offset at 21(this is what Auto gets me):










































































IOL offset at 19 (it's visibly faster than 23):



































































ah forgot PerformanceMark benchmark for this one.

IOL offset at 14 (lowest value it would POST):
















































































So basically, IOL offset 14 is faster than IOL offset 23, and all this time I thought the reverse would be true. Am I missing something here?


----------



## caki

hackasynthetic said:


> *tl;dr:* could be that *BCLK Amplitude* is too low(ie. 700mV), I've found that it works for me when it's on *Auto* instead.
> 
> I've had that happen yesterday with:
> *BCLK Amplitude*: 700mV
> *BCLK Frequency Slew Rate*: 80us/MHz
> 
> In other words, it would most of the time POST into safe mode(press F1 to enter setup) after like 2 minutes of pre-POST memory training failing, which would only happen at cold boots ie. after a shutdown/poweroff. When it would POST (due to luck), it would take 20 seconds of pre-POST black screen(ie. memory training, presumably, due to yellow/red leds moving around), but then everything would seem to work fine in Windows or memtest86, and even warm boots. But then a cold boot (ie. shutdown first), would trigger this failure to POST most of the time.
> 
> Furthermore(and this is where it matches what you said) if I were to change the values on the RTL/IOLs page, from Auto to whatever Auto detected when it would POST, it would consistently fail to POST after that (that is, it would POST 2mins later in safe-POST mode). Technically it would work with manual values until I also changed the RTL ones (as last to be changed) - can't find the article but it recommended to change IOLoffsets, reboot, change IOLs, reboot, then change RTLs last, reboot and see if it boots (well for me it didn't at this last step, even though the values were the same as Auto detected them).
> 
> But then when the two BCLK settings were both on *Auto*, I'd get 5 sec fast boot regardless of cold/warm boots and regardless of Auto or manually entered values on RTL/IOL page. The only time it would take longer(by like 5-10 secs) if when I'd change DLLBwEn from Auto to 1 or 2.
> 
> I suspect it was actually only the 700mV because it was the lowest value, but I've no idea which value Auto chooses! (I didn't test further though, so I don't know if both BCLK settings are needed to be on Auto, or only one of them, to fix this)
> 
> The kind of memory training that would happen pre-POST (and would only happen during cold boots, and not when MRC Fast Path was Disabled and just doing warm boots which I know it also does memory training), with the two non-Auto BCLK settings, sometimes(depending on what other settings I would change, memory-related) it would actually shutoff the power and turn it back on again on its own, all pre-POST, and could do this for 4+ times, before deciding to show me the F1 key safe mode POST screen.
> 
> Further more, I've had it at 3200Mhz memory overclock(instead of 3600Mhz which was the case above) which would do this shutoff-turnon pre-POST (only after at a cold boot (ie. shutdown from Windows, then start it back up from power button)), and I thought that since increasing the VCCSA and VCCIO voltages from 1.10V to 1.15V fixed it(that is, it wouldn't auto-shutoff multiple times during pre-POST when doing a cold boot), that that was the culprit, but nope, it is the BCLK Amplitude being too low(at 700mV, vs the Auto value).


thanks for detailed post. this ain't my case i believe since i got them both on auto.


----------



## Imprezzion

I run 280 tRFC as well on 4200C15. Perfectly stable. B-Die can handle it. What I would suggest tweaking are the tRDWR values. With tWR 16 you can probably run 10-10-10-10-28-26 on those.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> I run 280 tRFC as well on 4200C15.


8GB sticks though...


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> 8GB sticks though...


Nope, 2x16GB GTZN Neo's. It only does it up to 4200 at 1.6v. 4400C17 needs about 340-350 ish with maxed tREFI to not error out.


----------



## hackasynthetic

As per my prev. discovery with IOL offset=14 (instead of 21 or 23) I was able to now tighten two timings *tWRRD_dr* and *tWRRD_dd* which previously(with IOL Offset 21 or 23) wouldn't POST with 7/7 or 6/6 (8/8 not tried) and thus I was running them at 9/9 (which is what Auto would give me) and they aren't mentioned in that github doc (step 5).

Now with *tWRRD_dr=6 *and *tWRRD_dd=6 *(didn't try 5/5 but 4/4 will crash during POST), I've got the *Copy* tab of AIDA64 to match the *Write* tab, in value, so from 52500 in *Write* to 54500 MB/sec, as per the following screens:
it seems stable but I've gotta run at least 6hours of 3 configs in TM5 to be sure, and the some Prime95 (I'll let you know if it's NOT stable)






































but sometimes the score is just 4680, maybe those IO Latencies(seen below) matter? I'm unsure if it's 4700+ only when those IOL=13s are hit, instead of the 14s, but maybe that's not how it works and every bit is spread on the four DIMMs just like RAID0.










































































BIOS .txt used:


Code:


[2020/10/20 13:28:44]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:133]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3600MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.50]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [255.50]
Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.3926]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [-]
- CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [33]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [7]
DRAM Write Latency [13]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [10]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [8]
tWRRD_dr [6]
tWRRD_dd [6]
TWRPRE [27]
TRDPRE [8]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [64]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
DRAM CLK Period [20]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [Standard Profile]
DLLBwEn [2]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
ODT_READ_DURATION [2]
ODT_READ_DELAY [0]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [1]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [0]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]
Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
Package Power Time Window [127]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
ASPM [Disabled]
L1 Substates [Disabled]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Disabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Disabled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Disabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Disabled]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Disabled]
VT-d [Enabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Disabled]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [Auto]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic Storage Device 0.00 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [70]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Lower Temperature [40]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [70]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [60]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [60]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [3600restable]
Save to Profile [7]


As an aside, *TRDPRE* [8] and *DRAM READ to PRE Time* [8] setting them to 6/6 or 10/10(which is what Auto gives me), (or just leaving them at 8/8) doesn't really seem to affect anything in AIDA64 Cache & Memory Benchmark, or at worst it may be that 6/6 is slower but I may just be imagining it.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

1 error in anta extreme after 2hr:36m is ok for daily?


----------



## Falkentyne

Thanh Nguyen said:


> 1 error in anta extreme after 2hr:36m is ok for daily?


The general rule is:
If you can get past 1 hour (1 full cycle) of Anta777 extreme1 with 0 errors, 3+ hours of (new) OCCT RAM test AVX, 3+ hours of OCCT RAM test SSE (SSE can be harder to pass than AVX if your IMC is at the limit!), GSAT and HCI, _and_ 1 hour of prime95 112k-112k in-place AVX disabled, you're stable enough for daily.


----------



## Imprezzion

Man.. this is so frustrating and fun at the same time. I mean, i love tweaking stuff and just finding out what kind of overclocks i can get away with but this RAM kit is frustrating me so much right now.

I have a solid baseline basically completing all of those tests Falkentyre named with the exception of OCCT AVX as I just substituted that for Prime95 29.8 Blend AVX enabled for 8 hours but k.
That is at 4200C15-17-17-34-280-2T with full manual secondary /tertiary / RTL/IO. 1.60v DRAM 1.35v SA 1.25v IO 5.1Ghz CPU @ 1.290v fixed LLC3 and 5Ghz cache.

I always test my RAM at 5.0Ghz CPU and 4.8Ghz cache just to eliminate a possible instability of the cache not handling higher frequencies even tho that OC is solid.

Now, I can boot my RAM at the most amazing combinations of timings and frequency. Like, for example, it trains and boots Windows just fine on 4600 16-18-18-40-390-2T, 4700 17-19-19-45-510-2T, 4800 18-20-20-46-540-2T, 4200 14-16-16, and so forth. I don't even need to use all that crazy voltages.

Problem is, no matter what I do none of those will even run the first 20 seconds of a stresstest.. And if I throw more IO/SA/DRAM voltage at it (i ran as high as 1.55v SA 1.50v IO 1.65v DRAM at 4700C17) it will only get more unstable. Voltage is totally not helping at all. Especially IO/SA. Anything above ~1.4v and stability goes way out the window.

It's so strange to me that for example 4700 17-19-19 would boot windows just fine, i can even play like, Division 2 without it going barf, but it can't run 20 seconds of TM5. It will instantly throw 20 errors or even hard lock the PC and reboot..

The only thing above 4200 I got anywhere near stable so far is this 4533 18-20-20 setup. It's just so wierd how 4200 can do C15 just fine and i need C18 for 4533.. like.. i really expected it to do 4600-17-19-19 or something like that.


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Man.. this is so frustrating and fun at the same time. I mean, i love tweaking stuff and just finding out what kind of overclocks i can get away with but this RAM kit is frustrating me so much right now.
> 
> I have a solid baseline basically completing all of those tests Falkentyre named with the exception of OCCT AVX as I just substituted that for Prime95 29.8 Blend AVX enabled for 8 hours but k.
> That is at 4200C15-17-17-34-280-2T with full manual secondary /tertiary / RTL/IO. 1.60v DRAM 1.35v SA 1.25v IO 5.1Ghz CPU @ 1.290v fixed LLC3 and 5Ghz cache.
> 
> I always test my RAM at 5.0Ghz CPU and 4.8Ghz cache just to eliminate a possible instability of the cache not handling higher frequencies even tho that OC is solid.
> 
> Now, I can boot my RAM at the most amazing combinations of timings and frequency. Like, for example, it trains and boots Windows just fine on 4600 16-18-18-40-390-2T, 4700 17-19-19-45-510-2T, 4800 18-20-20-46-540-2T, 4200 14-16-16, and so forth. I don't even need to use all that crazy voltages.
> 
> Problem is, no matter what I do none of those will even run the first 20 seconds of a stresstest.. And if I throw more IO/SA/DRAM voltage at it (i ran as high as 1.55v SA 1.50v IO 1.65v DRAM at 4700C17) it will only get more unstable. Voltage is totally not helping at all. Especially IO/SA. Anything above ~1.4v and stability goes way out the window.
> 
> It's so strange to me that for example 4700 17-19-19 would boot windows just fine, i can even play like, Division 2 without it going barf, but it can't run 20 seconds of TM5. It will instantly throw 20 errors or even hard lock the PC and reboot..
> 
> The only thing above 4200 I got anywhere near stable so far is this 4533 18-20-20 setup. It's just so wierd how 4200 can do C15 just fine and i need C18 for 4533.. like.. i really expected it to do 4600-17-19-19 or something like that.
> 
> View attachment 2462664


Any Aida64 memorybenchmark?


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Man.. this is so frustrating and fun at the same time. I mean, i love tweaking stuff and just finding out what kind of overclocks i can get away with but this RAM kit is frustrating me so much right now.
> 
> I have a solid baseline basically completing all of those tests Falkentyre named with the exception of OCCT AVX as I just substituted that for Prime95 29.8 Blend AVX enabled for 8 hours but k.
> That is at 4200C15-17-17-34-280-2T with full manual secondary /tertiary / RTL/IO. 1.60v DRAM 1.35v SA 1.25v IO 5.1Ghz CPU @ 1.290v fixed LLC3 and 5Ghz cache.
> 
> I always test my RAM at 5.0Ghz CPU and 4.8Ghz cache just to eliminate a possible instability of the cache not handling higher frequencies even tho that OC is solid.
> 
> Now, I can boot my RAM at the most amazing combinations of timings and frequency. Like, for example, it trains and boots Windows just fine on 4600 16-18-18-40-390-2T, 4700 17-19-19-45-510-2T, 4800 18-20-20-46-540-2T, 4200 14-16-16, and so forth. I don't even need to use all that crazy voltages.
> 
> Problem is, no matter what I do none of those will even run the first 20 seconds of a stresstest.. And if I throw more IO/SA/DRAM voltage at it (i ran as high as 1.55v SA 1.50v IO 1.65v DRAM at 4700C17) it will only get more unstable. Voltage is totally not helping at all. Especially IO/SA. Anything above ~1.4v and stability goes way out the window.
> 
> It's so strange to me that for example 4700 17-19-19 would boot windows just fine, i can even play like, Division 2 without it going barf, but it can't run 20 seconds of TM5. It will instantly throw 20 errors or even hard lock the PC and reboot..
> 
> The only thing above 4200 I got anywhere near stable so far is this 4533 18-20-20 setup. It's just so wierd how 4200 can do C15 just fine and i need C18 for 4533.. like.. i really expected it to do 4600-17-19-19 or something like that.
> 
> View attachment 2462664


I settled for 4400 c18 1,45v 1,32 Sa 1,31 io 7/7/7/7 on Same board and ram config.
67k read, 68k write, 65k copy.
24hrs Karhu, 24hrs hci, 8hrs realbench stable.
4500 and above is just a headache and You will Not notice any Difference in games or anything.
4200 c15 Same.

For me it's Not worth it getting 1ns better for way higher voltage, You wont feel it.

I stopped using Prime, linX and ****, that stuff pulls 350w and more from cpu alone, which is totally unrealistic load and never gets stable unless you skyrocket vcore. 
No game pulls over 180w.
I can game 10+ hrs without any crashes, Same for Benchmarks.


----------



## Imprezzion

Nizzen said:


> Any Aida64 memorybenchmark?


4533C18: (Terrible latency as it has all Auto tertiary and RTL/IO.. )









4200C15 daily with all timings manual and RTL/IO as well: Waaaay lower latency and bandwidth is only like 2-3GB/s off. (Older BETA BIOS as well so it's not even as good as it can be with 1.2W)









So basically, to get any improvement over this i'd need to run as tight as 4600C17 or something. Which ofcourse is never going to happen lol.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> 4533C18: (Terrible latency as it has all Auto tertiary and RTL/IO.. )
> View attachment 2462667
> 
> 
> 4200C15 daily with all timings manual and RTL/IO as well: Waaaay lower latency and bandwidth is only like 2-3GB/s off. (Older BETA BIOS as well so it's not even as good as it can be with 1.2W)
> View attachment 2462668
> 
> 
> So basically, to get any improvement over this i'd need to run as tight as 4600C17 or something. Which ofcourse is never going to happen lol.


The 4533c18 looks a little off the pace
Here is a 4500c18 with auto RTLs
Maybe because of the primary timings required for that ram set


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> The 4533c18 looks a little off the pace
> Here is a 4500c18 with auto RTLs
> Maybe because of the primary timings required for that ram set
> View attachment 2462672


Yeah the 20's don't help plus I had tRDWR at like, 18-18-19-19-36-30 or something along those lines so they cost a fair bit of bandwidth probably. 

I'll see how far I can get tomorrow morning. Working from home is getting really really boring sometimes lol. It's nice to just have something to "play" with haha.


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> Man.. this is so frustrating and fun at the same time. I mean, i love tweaking stuff and just finding out what kind of overclocks i can get away with but this RAM kit is frustrating me so much right now.
> 
> I have a solid baseline basically completing all of those tests Falkentyre named with the exception of OCCT AVX as I just substituted that for Prime95 29.8 Blend AVX enabled for 8 hours but k.
> That is at 4200C15-17-17-34-280-2T with full manual secondary /tertiary / RTL/IO. 1.60v DRAM 1.35v SA 1.25v IO 5.1Ghz CPU @ 1.290v fixed LLC3 and 5Ghz cache.
> 
> I always test my RAM at 5.0Ghz CPU and 4.8Ghz cache just to eliminate a possible instability of the cache not handling higher frequencies even tho that OC is solid.
> 
> Now, I can boot my RAM at the most amazing combinations of timings and frequency. Like, for example, it trains and boots Windows just fine on 4600 16-18-18-40-390-2T, 4700 17-19-19-45-510-2T, 4800 18-20-20-46-540-2T, 4200 14-16-16, and so forth. I don't even need to use all that crazy voltages.
> 
> Problem is, no matter what I do none of those will even run the first 20 seconds of a stresstest.. And if I throw more IO/SA/DRAM voltage at it (i ran as high as 1.55v SA 1.50v IO 1.65v DRAM at 4700C17) it will only get more unstable. Voltage is totally not helping at all. Especially IO/SA. Anything above ~1.4v and stability goes way out the window.
> 
> It's so strange to me that for example 4700 17-19-19 would boot windows just fine, i can even play like, Division 2 without it going barf, but it can't run 20 seconds of TM5. It will instantly throw 20 errors or even hard lock the PC and reboot..
> 
> The only thing above 4200 I got anywhere near stable so far is this 4533 18-20-20 setup. It's just so wierd how 4200 can do C15 just fine and i need C18 for 4533.. like.. i really expected it to do 4600-17-19-19 or something like that.
> 
> View attachment 2462664


Be satisfied with 4400. You're on a 4 dimm board.
4500/4533 already requires a good RAM kit and a very good IMC, motherboard AND Bios. Not many people can do 4500+ for a daily, and it's even harder on a 4 dimm board.
4600+ requires a god tier IMC, a very well binned kit and a board that won't flip the pooch. And I don't think 4 dimmers will be able to do that. You really need an Apex or Dark for something like this.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Be satisfied with 4400. You're on a 4 dimm board.
> 4500/4533 already requires a good RAM kit and a very good IMC, motherboard AND Bios. Not many people can do 4500+ for a daily, and it's even harder on a 4 dimm board.
> 4600+ requires a god tier IMC, a very well binned kit and a board that won't flip the pooch. And I don't think 4 dimmers will be able to do that. You really need an Apex or Dark for something like this.


TOPPC told me it was very hard to post 4700 DR bdie on MSI while Asus can do a short period of stability test. Maybe MSI still needs some time for the DR b-die.


----------



## dev1ance

I'm not sure but shouldn't my latency be closer to lower 40s/upper 30s? Any reason why it's so high still?
My read/write/copy speeds also seem abysmally slow for some reason when when 4300 and 4100
4300 run:









4100:


----------



## YaqY

dev1ance said:


> I'm not sure but shouldn't my latency be closer to lower 40s/upper 30s? Any reason why it's so high still?
> My read/write/copy speeds also seem abysmally slow for some reason when when 4300 and 4100
> 4300 run:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4100:


PPD/TXP will drop latency a good amount along with tigther rtls/iols. Bandwidth is lacking because tertiary timings need to be tuned.


----------



## Imprezzion

That MSI board only has PPD / tXP options in the beta/test BIOS and afaik there is none available for the gaming edge. Only the unify, Ace and godlike have those at the moment.

Drop tWR to 12 and try tRDWR at something like 10-10-10-10-28-26.

Also, set RTL / IO to fixed mode, initial 65/65/1/1 or 63/63/4/4 and see if that boots and tests stable.


----------



## Betroz

dev1ance said:


> Any reason why it's so high still?


You could have some programs and services running in the background, like RGB software, Steam, Origin or whatever...


----------



## dev1ance

EDIT: Resolved latency


----------



## munternet

Been messing around with 4533-18-19-19-36 but I have given up because I can't get it fully stable in GSAT. It doesn't scale with voltage too well.
Managed to remove the error I got after an hour of TM5 Extreme1 by changing the voltages to vdimm=1.44 vccio=1.38 and vccsa=1.36
It's a very finicky combo. Many of the values won't work 1 number either way and some have to be on auto and can't be inserted manually
There may be some voodoo I don't know about?
This is an earlier screen
















4500 Aida below for comparison


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> There may be some voodoo I don't know about?


Yes 💀

Have you considered a new version of AIDA64 that supports your hardware...?


----------



## dev1ance

So it turns out the latest MSI BIOs for the Gaming Edge Wifi actually added PPD and tXP options so PPD 0 and tXP 4 worked just fine as just changing those two knocked down my latency to 41.9ns. My only concern is that others who are at 4000/4100/4200 have much higher bandwidth than me even when I'm at 4300? My Read/Write/Copy numbers seem abysmally slow compared to everyone else and hover in the 50s while everyone else seems to be in the 60s. I've tried minimizing my tertiary timings as below but it seems to have not made a substantial impact?


----------



## garyd9

dev1ance said:


> My only concern is that others who are at 4000/4100/4200 have much higher bandwidth than me even when I'm at 4300? My Read/Write/Copy numbers seem abysmally slow compared to everyone else and hover in the 50s while everyone else seems to be in the 60s. I've tried minimizing my tertiary timings as below but it seems to have not made a substantial impact?


I had a similar problem... Do you have Hyper-V (or any other hypervisor) installed? If so, go into BIOS and try to disable any options related to allowing virtual machines. There might be two different options. The one for "VT-d" isn't the important one. You want to disable the one that enables any virtual extensions at all (Intel VT-x, or Intel Virtual something.) That will disable the hypervisor without having to uninstall it. Then test again.


----------



## dev1ance

garyd9 said:


> I had a similar problem... Do you have Hyper-V (or any other hypervisor) installed? If so, go into BIOS and try to disable any options related to allowing virtual machines. There might be two different options. The one for "VT-d" isn't the important one. You want to disable the one that enables any virtual extensions at all (Intel VT-x, or Intel Virtual something.) That will disable the hypervisor without having to uninstall it. Then test again.


Dang it, thanks a lot! I actually did have Hyper-V installed for Macrium Reflect...and numbers are looking a lot more normal


----------



## Imprezzion

Ah so the edge does have that BIOS? Nice!
Copy is a bit low still but that's probably tertiary timing related. Latency could be cleaner but it depends a lot on background processes. On a full Windows boot with all the background stuff enabled I get around high 38 low 39ns as well on 4200C15 but if I close everything unnecessary and even go as far as end task on every single unnecessary task / service and even explorer.exe and such I can get low 36ns.


----------



## dev1ance

Imprezzion said:


> Ah so the edge does have that BIOS? Nice!
> Copy is a bit low still but that's probably tertiary timing related. Latency could be cleaner but it depends a lot on background processes. On a full Windows boot with all the background stuff enabled I get around high 38 low 39ns as well on 4200C15 but if I close everything unnecessary and even go as far as end task on every single unnecessary task / service and even explorer.exe and such I can get low 36ns.


They supposedly released the new BIOs on the 14th of this month but I definitely did not see that when I was grabbing BIOs for my new build a few days ago which is weird to say the least.
Any comments on which tertiary timing affects Copy the most?


----------



## Imprezzion

dev1ance said:


> They supposedly released the new BIOs on the 14th of this month but I definitely did not see that when I was grabbing BIOs for my new build a few days ago which is weird to say the least.
> Any comments on which tertiary timing affects Copy the most?


From what I understand of it tRDWR and tWRWR? Also those are coupled with tWR secondary timing. I run 12 but that is quite aggressive for 4300 honestly.


----------



## Placekicker19

I thought my ram errors were fixed, however when testing my other sticks of ram I error and bsod within 10 minutes. The other ram slot is fine and passes testmem5 with all 6 sticks. I dont understand how 1 stick of ram can pass fine in both slots but the other 5 pass fine in slot B but bsod quickly in Slot A. 

Evga wants to rma the board so I disassembled everything and once I got the motherboard out i inspected the ram slots and discovered this.

Look at the solder points where the ram is connected to the board, the other end of the slot also has issues. The other ram slot, that I have no issues with has perfect soldering points.


----------



## hackasynthetic

dev1ance said:


> Any comments on which tertiary timing affects Copy the most?


If you lower *tWRRD_dr* and* tWRRD_dd *(*) you can get Write to be as high as Copy*EDIT3: correction: you can get Copy to be higher(as high as Write)*, as I've noticed by experimenting. But if it doesn't POST with them lower, you might want to look into reducing RTT, which I did by lowering IOL Offsets(instead of increasing them, oddly enough), seen here.

* these two(dr/dd) aren't affecting tWTR, only tWRRD_sg/dg are, or so it seems from my experience and this github doc(step 4).


*EDIT: *(didn't wanna make a new post)
*What is known of VPPDDR ? Does it matter if it runs at lowest value of 1.865V instead of the normal 2.500V ?
EDIT2: *hmm interesting VPP is peak-to-peak voltage(so something like *BCLK Amplitude* which is at *1000mV* for me). I guess then I want it to be as normal/high as it can go... ? (normal 2.5V, max 2.7V)


----------



## YoungChris

@Placekicker19 What bios/memory settings are you trying to run? Have the sticks been tested on another system?


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> Yes 💀
> 
> Have you considered a new version of AIDA64 that supports your hardware...?


Yeah mate
I had a newer Aida installed but had to clone to my backup drive again after corrupting the OS


----------



## Placekicker19

YoungChris said:


> @Placekicker19 What bios/memory settings are you trying to run? Have the sticks been tested on another system?


Bios is 1.07 and i tested xoc .93 too. The pc was completely stable and then it began with black screen crashing , freezing programs, and memory management bsods. It went from stable to unstable in a day, it didn't progressively get worse with time it happened instantly. Ive tested 3 sperate brands of ram and they all pass without errors in slot B, and all but 1 fail in slot A within 4-10min of testmem5. The 1 stick that was passing for the past 3 days in slot A has failed 2xs today around 17min mark, it to has become unstable. It doesnt matter if the ram is set to 4266 20 20 20 44 or 4400 17 17 17 36 the errors begin around the same time on slot A. Loosening timings has no effect on stability. Another thing I noticed is, increasing ram voltage makes it more unstable and error quicker and all 6 sticks I tested exhibit this behavior. I have to keep voltage below 1.49v on patriots and gkills but my team groups start becoming unstable and instant errors above 1.46v. There is something funky going on with the way voltage is causing instability. The sticks are under 40c too. Maybe it's the cpu.

If this replacement board exhibits the same behaviors im done with z390. I regret not selling my 9900KS while they were fetching a premium.


----------



## YoungChris

@Placekicker19 DMing you.
This sounds like it could be anything, ram, board, or cpu. Or, it could just be ambient temps throwing things outta whack.


----------



## YoungChris

Finally got a stable OC, relevant voltages are listed in the pic. Unfortunately Aida doesn't work for me, think it doesn't like my modified bios or something. However, should be able to get a good idea of performance/efficiency from the memory score.















3950c15 1t 2x16 was handily beating this, in both mem intensive benchmarks and things normally not seen as memory intensive, although I still need to check that for actual stability.


----------



## dev1ance

Imprezzion said:


> n a full Windows boot with all the background stuff enabled I get around high 38 low 39ns as well on 4200C15 but if I close everything unnecessary and even go as far as end task on every single unnecessary task / service and even explorer.exe and such I can get low 36ns.


Seemed to have worked. Pretty happy with this result, thought my board was defective at first.


----------



## Betroz

dev1ance said:


> Seemed to have worked. Pretty happy with this result, thought my board was defective at first.


Great job. Write and latency is about where it should be, but read and copy is a bit low.


----------



## dev1ance

Betroz said:


> Great job. Write and latency is about where it should be, but read and copy is a bit low.


Any tips on improving read? My system is stable atm but I'd like to give it a try on the weekend.


----------



## Imprezzion

Read isn't all that far off really. Copy is still like 5GB/s off tho. Probably still a combination of RTL/IO and tertiary timings. Do you have secondary tFAW at 16?


----------



## dev1ance

Yup


----------



## Betroz

dev1ance said:


> Yup


Try this or parts of it. You need to adjust VDIMM, IO and SA of course.


----------



## dev1ance

Can I really do trdrd_dr and dd=0? Similarly for twrwrdr and dd?


----------



## Imprezzion

Here's what I am getting in AIDA with the same primary timings and my own secondary / tertiary / RTL/IO. DIdn't really tighten them to the max possible. This was just a quick test setup.


----------



## Gregix

But is this 2x8 or 2x16Gb?


----------



## hackasynthetic

Betroz said:


> Try this or parts of it.





Imprezzion said:


> This was just a quick test setup.


How did yous get Read to be as high as Write? For me it's 2GB/sec lower.
Teach me pls

*EDIT*: I can tell you how to get Copy as high as Write


----------



## Betroz

I am no longer using those RAM sticks


----------



## zGunBLADEz

somebody can post a nice tweaked 10900k with ram LL on geekbench 5? want to see vs new leaked amd benchies


----------



## munternet

I think there should be a requirement for people asking for help with memory overclocking and even CPU overclocking that they have a list of components in their sig.
Motherboard, CPU, Ram part number, PSU and Cooling solution


----------



## Placekicker19

Is it possible for a cpu to be stable on one channel of ram but not the other? 

To test imc,
I disabled hyperthreading, set core to 4.7ghz and cache to 4.3ghz and it started to error 2 minute into testmem5. I error at the exact same time with 5.2ghz, 4.9cache and hyperthreading enabled. 

I would assume if the imc is problematic disabling hyperthreading and underclocking cache would help improve stability and verify a weak imc .


----------



## Arctucas

munternet said:


> I think there should be a requirement for people asking for help with memory overclocking and even CPU overclocking that they have a list of components in their sig.
> Motherboard, CPU, Ram part number, PSU and Cooling solution


+1


----------



## Placekicker19

Rma was approved 4 days ago and evga just contacted me and said they don't have any z390 darks in stock. My only options are to down grade to a z390 ftw and a partial reimbursement or go to a z490 dark.


----------



## dev1ance

^Z490 Dark sounds pretty nice to me if you want to pick up 11th gen as well. How much can you flip your chip for?


----------



## Placekicker19

dev1ance said:


> ^Z490 Dark sounds pretty nice to me if you want to pick up 11th gen as well. How much can you flip your chip for?


I gotta 9900KS so I should be able to get $400 . $150 going to a 10900k wouldnt be bad. The z490 and 10th series is better for memory overclocking so thats a positive .


----------



## SgtRotty

dev1ance said:


> Yup


Try tWR=16
tRTP=8


----------



## dev1ance

SgtRotty said:


> Try tWR=16
> tRTP=8


I've actually knocked tRTP down to 6 and tWR 12. My copy speed is the only thing that's under 60 and that's with me changing twRRDdr/dg to 6/6 as well.


----------



## SgtRotty

dev1ance said:


> I've actually knocked tRTP down to 6 and tWR 12. My copy speed is the only thing that's under 60 and that's with me changing twRRDdr/dg to 6/6 as well.



View attachment 2462958


your dimms might not be binned together tightly like mine. this is closet i can get my copy to the read and write. [1 dimm might be better than the other]


----------



## SgtRotty




----------



## munternet

I had these sticks on my alert list and by the time I looked a couple of hours later there was no stock 








G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100) Desktop Memory Model F4-4266C17D-32GVKB - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100) Desktop Memory Model F4-4266C17D-32GVKB with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Roidsy

I was waiting on those as well but settled for one of the 4000 c16 sets. I feel like my expectations might be too high for dual rank but maybe I just don't know the little intricacies involved in getting it working over 4k yet. What did your 3600 kit end up at @munternet?


----------



## munternet

Roidsy said:


> I was waiting on those as well but settled for one of the 4000 c16 sets. I feel like my expectations might be too high for dual rank but maybe I just don't know the little intricacies involved in getting it working over 4k yet. What did your 3600 kit end up at @munternet?


I have been gaming with 4500-18-19-19-36 vdimm=1.45v vccio=1.34v vccsa=1.36v with auto RTLs
Passed over 1Hr TM5 extreme1 but I have yet to fully test GSAT but it failed GSAT at 4533 same timings, but not by much and passed TM5 unless I was doing too much multitasking 
I never would have thought I would get them this high initially but they are MUCH harder for me to learn than single rank and do have potential and once you figure a few things out they get easier.
They are VERY picky with the tertiaries and don't like too much voltage. Some tertiaries MUST be on auto for me or it won't train.


----------



## mouacyk

So been testing these: G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel Z370 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK - Newegg.com

Currently got 3900 15-15-15-36-2T 1.5Vdimm 1.2Vsa 1.2Vio. Just bumping up SA/IO will not boot 4000.










How's the performance for 2x16GB? Think I can get anymore out of this kit?


----------



## munternet

mouacyk said:


> So been testing these: G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel Z370 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK - Newegg.com
> 
> Currently got 3900 15-15-15-36-2T 1.5Vdimm 1.2Vsa 1.2Vio. Just bumping up SA/IO will not boot 4000.
> 
> View attachment 2462977
> 
> 
> How's the performance for 2x16GB? Think I can get anymore out of this kit?


Looks pretty tight. It's not so easy doing straight 15s with 2x16GB 
I can't do straight 15s @ 4000
What will it do with straight 16s?


----------



## ncpneto

Hello guys,

Please, I need your help.

I'm kind of a beginner in the subject of DDR4 but lately I have learned a lot by reading what you write on this forum.

Well, here's the thing:

I have the f4-4800c18-8gtrg kit and I'm running at 4400c16-17-17-37-2t.

With just over an hour and a half running the Karhu RAM Test, it returns 1 error.

From your experience, what could be the cause of this error? What do you suggest to fix it?


----------



## ViTosS

I switched from my i7 8700k to an i9 9900ks, apparentely I won silicon lottery? It seems stable at 5.0Ghz with 1.140v full load (LLC6, 1.190v in BIOS), also I discovered that my poor RAM OC problem is due to my RAM lottery and NOT my IMC, since I swaped CPUs and my RAM OC stood the same (I tried a bit and realized), also this 9900ks is hot hahah, I'm right now running 112k FFTs and it's like 10c hotter than my old 8700k, even with way less voltage (I used 1.30v full load for my 8700k 5.2Ghz, delidded), maybe I will delid this chip sometime


----------



## mouacyk

munternet said:


> Looks pretty tight. It's not so easy doing straight 15s with 2x16GB
> I can't do straight 15s @ 4000
> What will it do with straight 16s?


I have tried 15-16-16 for 4000, but still won't train at any SA/IO. I have a feeling my CPU/board are reaching frequency limits. It will be interesting to test straight 16's next. I already hit about 53C on DIMM's, with a 120mm fan pointing at them, so probably can't raise the VDIMM much higher.

Overall, I'm ecstatic about these 16GB b-die dimms. Mine are from 9/2020, so quite recent. For contrast, at 1.45v my 2x8GB 3600C15 kit (probably 2017 or 2018?) was doing 4000-16-17-17-1T and 4133-16-17-17-2T.

@ViTosS It's a bit misleading if you don't test it enough. My 9900K easily games at 1.168v at 5GHz fixed, but when I started throwing hour-long stress tests on it, like Realbench, more and more voltage was required. Eventually, to pass my compiling needs, I ended up at 1.224v, which is 7 bins above the gaming voltage.


----------



## ViTosS

mouacyk said:


> I have tried 15-16-16 for 4000, but still won't train at any SA/IO. I have a feeling my CPU/board are reaching frequency limits. It will be interesting to test straight 16's next. I already hit about 53C on DIMM's, with a 120mm fan pointing at them, so probably can't raise the VDIMM much higher.
> 
> Overall, I'm ecstatic about these 16GB b-die dimms. Mine are from 9/2020, so quite recent. For contrast, at 1.45v my 2x8GB 3600C15 kit (probably 2017 or 2018?) was doing 4000-16-17-17-1T and 4133-16-17-17-2T.
> 
> @ViTosS It's a bit misleading if you don't test it enough. My 9900K easily games at 1.168v at 5GHz fixed, but when I started throwing hour-long stress tests on it, like Realbench, more and more voltage was required. Eventually, to pass my compiling needs, I ended up at 1.224v, which is 7 bins above the gaming voltage.


Yeah I will let it running 8h Realbench 2.56 this night, but usually when I'm unstable with 112k FFTs I get WHEA erros in like 10-30min and it passed already 2h, also my voltage for 112k is always higher than for Realbench for stability, so it should be stable.


----------



## Arctucas

mouacyk said:


> So been testing these: G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel Z370 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK - Newegg.com
> 
> Currently got 3900 15-15-15-36-2T 1.5Vdimm 1.2Vsa 1.2Vio. Just bumping up SA/IO will not boot 4000.
> 
> View attachment 2462977
> 
> 
> How's the performance for 2x16GB? Think I can get anymore out of this kit?


I have that kit in white F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW.

Will not do 15, but here is what I have managed so far:










1.4VDIMM, 1.295VSA, 1.28VCCIO.


----------



## Walbum4262

ncpneto said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Please, I need your help.
> 
> I'm kind of a beginner in the subject of DDR4 but lately I have learned a lot by reading what you write on this forum.
> 
> Well, here's the thing:
> 
> I have the f4-4800c18-8gtrg kit and I'm running at 4400c16-17-17-37-2t.
> 
> With just over an hour and a half running the Karhu RAM Test, it returns 1 error.
> 
> From your experience, what could be the cause of this error? What do you suggest to fix it?
> 
> View attachment 2463033


your TRTP is a bit low.. try with 8 or 10


----------



## munternet

Been doing some proper testing on the 4400 straight 17s and this looks like where it doesn't error
vdimm 1.45v
vccio 1.34v
vccsa 1.34v
Pretty solid Aida scores
Not going to spend hours trying to lower latency more because I'm looking at testing 4500c18


----------



## Imprezzion

Maybe mine error so much because I'm using way too much voltage... I meant I can't even do 4400 17-19-19-39-350 at 1.6v but maybe I should just try lower like 1.45v in stead of higher..


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Maybe mine error so much because I'm using way too much voltage... I meant I can't even do 4400 17-19-19-39-350 at 1.6v but maybe I should just try lower like 1.45v in stead of higher..


Maybe, If I raise mine I error hard out 
Even 4500 I can't raise vdimm more than 1.46v
My sticks don't scale but yours might?
DRs are so much more unforgiving than SR sticks
What is the code for your sticks?


----------



## pipes

It's can be a good module? 32G Samsung 2x 16GB 2RX8 PC4-2666V MHz DDR4 21300 DIMM Desktop Memory RAM 288Pin | eBay

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

ncpneto said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Please, I need your help.
> 
> I'm kind of a beginner in the subject of DDR4 but lately I have learned a lot by reading what you write on this forum.
> 
> Well, here's the thing:
> 
> I have the f4-4800c18-8gtrg kit and I'm running at 4400c16-17-17-37-2t.
> 
> With just over an hour and a half running the Karhu RAM Test, it returns 1 error.
> 
> From your experience, what could be the cause of this error? What do you suggest to fix it?
> 
> View attachment 2463033


Higher VccSA most likel fix it.


----------



## hackasynthetic

Hey I've just discovered something disturbing: memory training cannot be trusted!
*tl;dr:* not changing any BIOS setting, memory training(ie. POST) can sometimes fail, but when it doesn't fail it can still sometimes err on memtest86 test 6 and/or 9. So, you can be stable in this boot session, but on next cold boot(ie. after next memory training) you could be unstable again!

Basically, without changing any BIOS settings, and only* after cold boots(ie. shutdown/poweroff then power PC back on), which is when memory training happens, I've noticed that apparently based on DRAM temperature at best, or randomly at worst, memory training will either fail and shot safe mode POST screen, or pass in which case it can either pass or err on test 6 and/or 9 of memtest86.

* note that memory training can also happen during warm boots if *MRC Fast Boot* is *Disabled* (or also when it's on *Auto* and you've just *Save&Exit*-ed from BIOS after changing a memory setting that warrants memory training)

This is safe mode POST screen(that thing with press F1 to enter setup due to instability, in my case due to memory training having failed):









This is test 6 erroring:










Here are my settings:


Code:


[2020/10/24 17:48:58]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:133]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3600MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [171.00]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [45.00]
Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.3794]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [-]
- CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [0.50000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [0.50000]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [33]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [1]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [7]
DRAM Write Latency [13]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [10]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [8]
tWRRD_dr [6]
tWRRD_dd [6]
TWRPRE [27]
TRDPRE [8]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [64]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
DRAM CLK Period [20]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [Standard Profile]
DLLBwEn [2]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [60 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT_READ_DURATION [2]
ODT_READ_DELAY [0]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [1]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [0]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]
Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [150]
Package Power Time Window [2]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [154]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Enabled]
Native ASPM [Enabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Enabled]
ASPM [Auto]
L1 Substates [L1.1 & L1.2]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [L1]
PEG - ASPM [Auto]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Disabled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [3 sec]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Enabled]
Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
CPU C3 Report [Enabled]
CPU C6 Report [Enabled]
CPU C7 Report [CPU C7s]
CPU C8 Report [Enabled]
Package C State Limit [Auto]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
VT-d [Enabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
Generic Storage Device 0.00 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [50]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Lower Temperature [36]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [61]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [61]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [55]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [55]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [23oct3600]
Save to Profile [1]

I've tried to get rid of some *Auto*s.
Made a post here also.

Some screens:






































































































































I've tried higher VCCSA/IO/DMI to 1.2V and DRAM 1.39V, BCLK Amplitude 1000mV and BCLK something from 80us to 40us/MHz, all at the same time, no change in the occurrences of memory training sometimes working sometimes failing, or just failing test 6.

I'm thinking that even if I were to get rid of all *Auto*s, some settings are still not visible and could be affected by memory training... so I'm not sure what the solution is. But one thing is clear now, if memory training fails, or if test 6 fails, it's not necessarily because of whatever setting in BIOS you've just changed and you're now testing for it working! Since I hadn't changed anything, I don't see why it would cause either memtraining to fail or test 6 to fail. The funny thing is though, that I would pass Prime95, 6+ hours TM5 extreme1, 6+ hours GSAT even, and then just reboot(ie. no memtraining) and would fail test 9(yes, not 6).


----------



## YoungChris

Small improvement to daily stable OC on Dark.















I'll try to push for 4500/4533c17 soon.


----------



## YoungChris

Also, I had some interesting test results today when comparison benchmark scores between different bios versions. I found, with both bioses having security patches removed and all selected options the same, Bios 1.06 will perform better than Bios 1.07 in both Cinebench R20 and Geekbench 3. So, for those of you with a Z490 Dark/KP and single rank memory, I recommend using Bios 1.06. If you have dual rank memory, use Bios 1.07, as compatibility is much better.
I experienced something similar when comparing XOC Bioses 0.00, 0.92, and 0.93 for the Z390 Dark. 0.00 was the best by a solid margin. I did not compare with normal release bioses or check if security patches could be removed for that, though.


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> Maybe, If I raise mine I error hard out
> Even 4500 I can't raise vdimm more than 1.46v
> My sticks don't scale but yours might?
> DRs are so much more unforgiving than SR sticks
> What is the code for your sticks?


F4-3600C16D-32GTZN Trident Z Neo RGB's.

I'll play around with the voltage tomorrow. Gotta work all day from home so plenty of time.


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> F4-3600C16D-32GTZN Trident Z Neo RGB's.
> 
> I'll play around with the voltage tomorrow. Gotta work all day from home so plenty of time.


I wonder if they are the same PCB as mine?
Mine are 2020 June, code 20263624471 so week 26 right?, and run the same voltage....


----------



## 2500k_2

g.skill 4000 cl17 dual 32gb


----------



## ViTosS

My current RAM settings while I wait for my [email protected] kit to arrive , just by changing CPU from 8700k to 9900ks both at the same frequency I dropped from 37.5ns to 36.4ns latency


----------



## munternet

2500k_2 said:


> g.skill 4000 cl17 dual 32gb


Looks like a pretty decent kit 
Will it pass an hour or 2 of GSAT with those low voltages?



ViTosS said:


> My current RAM settings while I wait for my [email protected] kit to arrive , just by changing CPU from 8700k to 9900ks both at the same frequency I dropped from 37.5ns to 36.4ns latency


Nice one mate  
Will be interesting to see how the new sticks go


----------



## YoungChris

Another push forward, yes I know accidental double memory tab















4666c17 showed some promise with 1.45 io/1.55 sa/1.55 dimm and all subtimings same, needs some work for daily stable though.


----------



## hackasynthetic

YoungChris said:


> needs some work for daily stable though.


What do you run first when trying to see if it's stable? Is it Memtest86 test 6 ? I've noticed before than when this one passes, others like TM5 in Windows can still err. But now I notice the reverse, TM5 and Prime95 not err-ing, but a warm boot(without new memory training) into memtest86 test6 can still err.


----------



## YoungChris

hackasynthetic said:


> What do you run first when trying to see if it's stable? Is it Memtest86 test 6 ? I've noticed before than when this one passes, others like TM5 in Windows can still err. But now I notice the reverse, TM5 and Prime95 not err-ing, but a warm boot(without new memory training) into memtest86 test6 can still err.


My first test 2 tests are Geek 3 and Cine R20. If it passes those and performance looks in line, I move on to memtest for actual stability testing.
4666c17 made it about ~13% into memtest and threw an error, so it definitely needs some work.


----------



## Nizzen

YoungChris said:


> My first test 2 tests are Geek 3 and Cine R20. If it passes those and performance looks in line, I move on to memtest for actual stability testing.
> 4666c17 made it about ~13% into memtest and threw an error, so it definitely needs some work.


If it's stable in Battlefield v multiplayer for 2 hours, then it's pretty stable


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> If it's stable in Battlefield v multiplayer for 2 hours, then it's pretty stable


I had a 5.2 Ghz 10900K OC that was Battlefield 5 stable, but errored out quickly in both TM5 Extreme anta777 and 112k fft Prime95 within 10 min of testing...LOL.


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> I had a 5.2 Ghz 10900K OC that was Battlefield 5 stable, but errored out quickly in both TM5 Extreme anta777 and 112k fft Prime95 within 10 min of testing...LOL.


And my latest overclocks of 4400c17 and 4500c18 2x16GB were Battlefield V stable, TM5 Extreme anta777 stable and 112k fft Prime95 stable but errored in the SECOND hour of GSAT testing before raising VCCSA a little


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> I had a 5.2 Ghz 10900K OC that was Battlefield 5 stable, but errored out quickly in both TM5 Extreme anta777 and 112k fft Prime95 within 10 min of testing...LOL.


I said pretty stable  IF it's stable in every scenario you do, then it's stable enough for most people. There is no stable, only degree of stable in given environment


----------



## hackasynthetic

munternet said:


> And my latest overclocks of 4400c17 and 4500c18 2x16GB were Battlefield V stable, TM5 Extreme anta777 stable and 112k fft Prime95 stable but errored in the SECOND hour of GSAT testing before raising VCCSA a little


Could you please consider running memtest86 test #6 all 4 passes ? it takes like 14-16 mins. I've had it pass 6+ hours of GSAT but on next warm boot it failed memtest86 only on test #9 (yeah it even passed test #6 but, to be fair, it was only first pass). I'd ask you to also run test #9 but that takes way longer (I don't remember how long, 1+ hours for sure, for all 4 passes of both 6 and 9 tests). But if it does pass both, all 4 passes, then I'm sure you're way stable.

I'm currently just booted from cold boot and it passes 4 passes of test 6 twice, then a full pass of all 12(?) tests (skipped 13th), and currently still running the passes for both 6&9 tests, but I'm sure it's stable on this run. However if I were to just turn it off then on again, I'm sure it would start to err in test 6 on that future run, without even changing anything in BIOS. Freakin' memory training, I swear! Didn't think I'd have one more variable to consider for stability, but there is it: memory training doing it wrongly sometimes, apparently based on temperature.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Anyone got a theory on why Geekbenck 3 memory score seems to favor DR sticks over SR by quite a "large" margin when other benchmarks favor the faster SR sticks?
SR: 4700c17 tuned: ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
DR: 4533c16 Tuned ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser

(Don't mind the cpu score since the DR test is running 100Mhz higher)


----------



## hackasynthetic

SuperMumrik said:


> ...
> *Lian-Li O11 Dynamic*
> 
> *CPU*: I9 10900K | *Motherboard*: Asus Maximus XII Apex | *GPU*: Palit Gamingpro OC RTX 2080 [email protected] | *RAM*: G.Skill [email protected] | *Hard Drive*: Adata XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB | *Power Supply*: Corsair HX1000 | *Cooling*: EKWB CPU + GPU | *Case*: Lian-Li O11 Dynamic | *Operating System*: Windows 8.1 Pro | *Operating System*: Windows 10 1709 | *Monitor*: HP OMEN X 27 | *Monitor*: Asus ROG SWIFT 279Q | *Keyboard*: Varmilo VA88M | *Mouse*: Finalmouse Ultralight 2 | *Mousepad*: Zowie G-SR | *Audio*: AKG Q701


Did you write that signature by hand? with all the bolds, underline, vertical pipes or is there some official way to add those components and then generate the sig. from it?
(re your question: no idea)

EDIT: just took your style and made a sig., thanks! Also I think @munternet wanted me to do this a while ago


----------



## itssladenlol

hackasynthetic said:


> Could you please consider running memtest86 test #6 all 4 passes ? it takes like 14-16 mins. I've had it pass 6+ hours of GSAT but on next warm boot it failed memtest86 only on test #9 (yeah it even passed test #6 but, to be fair, it was only first pass). I'd ask you to also run test #9 but that takes way longer (I don't remember how long, 1+ hours for sure, for all 4 passes of both 6 and 9 tests). But if it does pass both, all 4 passes, then I'm sure you're way stable.
> 
> I'm currently just booted from cold boot and it passes 4 passes of test 6 twice, then a full pass of all 12(?) tests (skipped 13th), and currently still running the passes for both 6&9 tests, but I'm sure it's stable on this run. However if I were to just turn it off then on again, I'm sure it would start to err in test 6 on that future run, without even changing anything in BIOS. Freakin' memory training, I swear! Didn't think I'd have one more variable to consider for stability, but there is it: memory training doing it wrongly sometimes, apparently based on temperature.


Thats why you turn of memory Training, when you have a stable overclock with Set Frequency, primary's, secondaries and rtls/iols that is error free. 
You can cold boot 100 times and it will always be error free cause Training is disabled and nothing changes.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> I said pretty stable  IF it's stable in every scenario you do, then it's stable enough for most people. There is no stable, only degree of stable in given environment


I know, but failing after only a few minutes tells you something.


----------



## hackasynthetic

itssladenlol said:


> Thats why you turn of memory Training, when you have a stable overclock with Set Frequency, primary's, secondaries and rtls/iols that is error free.
> You can cold boot 100 times and it will always be error free cause Training is disabled and nothing changes.


Not sure I understand. If by setting all the values from Auto to some value turns off memory training, then I should be stable all the time now. But there are still some Auto values which I don't know the values of. See this post for my complete BIOS dump as .txt
Things like the following are still on Auto:


Code:


DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]

and I'm pretty sure that those are the ones that bite me.

If I put *MRC Fast Boot* on *Enabled* instead of *Auto*, would that prevent memory training from happening on cold boots? I haven't tried it yet. I know it would prevent it from happening on warm boots (unless it's on *Disabled*, then it always mem trains irespective of what values are already non-Auto, as seen in that BIOS .txt dump). I'm still in memtesting currently: passed 2 full memtest86 passes of all tests except test 13(the hammer one, which I've deselected), confirming that it's stable in this session, until next cold boot.
*EDIT: *just tried *Enabled* and it still memtrains when I turn on the PC (and in my current case it posted in safe-mode this time, no surprise there). I'd be so bold as to claim that it does and should always memory train when turned on (even if not previously unplugged). I guess *MRC Fast Boot *does only effect warm boots.

The way I see it, it always mem trains upon cold boots, unless I'm missing some setting that you mentioned(beside the obvious Slope etc. settings), but you can see in the post I linked that most humanly possible settings are set...
What would you recommend?


----------



## Imprezzion

In my MSI Z490 Ace BIOS I can turn off MRC Fastboot and separately disable training all together in a different menu.

I do leave it enabled for testing random OC's but once it's stable I lock everything to Fixed mode and disable training. Never fails to boot with the same training.

BTW @munternet you are completely right with the voltage there. I set 4400 straight 17's @ 1.45v just quick and dirty all auto secondary and RTL which at 1.6v doesn't even do 5 minutes without hard locking the PC or spitting out 20+ errors in TM5. Test is at 15 minutes now and no errors.... it really really does not like voltage at 1.6v lol.

EDIT: Had to raise VCCSA and IO a bit but got easy 1 hour TM5 at 4400 straight 17's by just dropping voltage from 1.60v to 1.45v. I never thought LESS would be better.. they don't even get hot at 1.60v like, 43c..


----------



## hackasynthetic

Imprezzion said:


> In my MSI Z490 Ace BIOS I can turn off MRC Fastboot and separately disable training all together in a different menu.
> 
> I do leave it enabled for testing random OC's but once it's stable I lock everything to Fixed mode and disable training. Never fails to boot with the same training.


That's nice that you have an option to disable memory training. Literally jealous 
It's good info to know!

Is it "Memory Try It!" in this screenshot:?








oh wait, it can't be because you said "in a different menu"!

Is "DRAM Training Configuration" maybe a submenu(not currently visible?) in this screenshot:? oh yeah, it looks like it's a submenu because "> Advanced DRAM Configuration" is seen in prev. screenshot and we're now inside it in this next one, nice! So maybe mem training disabling is located inside this "DRAM Training Configuration" submenu? (which I don't have a screenshot of)









Or is it "CPU Memory Changed Detect" in this screenshot:?









just trying to guess which option is the mem training disabled one  in your BIOS
(doubt I've one in my Prime Z370-A though, but still)


----------



## Imprezzion

It is in DRAM training yeah. 

I will look at it in a sec, gotta go to BIOS anyway.

I got 1 single error on 4533 straight 18's in 1:30 hours. Shame. Was close lol. Might do a little bit more SA/IO (now on 1.40/1.35) just to try. I did find out that munternet was completely right. Anything over 1.45v on the RAM makes it error like mad. I can do timings and frequencies at 1.452v that i could dream of on 1.60v..


----------



## hackasynthetic

Imprezzion said:


> It is in DRAM training yeah.
> 
> I will look at it in a sec, gotta go to BIOS anyway.


Much appreciated.

Meanwhile I found out that I should never disable any/all Training Algorithms because then it won't even POST in safe mode! *MemOK!* won't work either, probably because it respects the now-disabled training algos. It would just hang on the yellow led (aka dram stuff). So the only option was the CLR CMOS jumper.


----------



## Imprezzion

This option and the one under that (Turn around timing training can be disabled to make sure it locks it along with Fixed Tertiary and RTL/IO setting in the main screen.

ONLY do this when your absolutely sure you're not going to change anything timing related. 

4533 straight 18's is kinda a no go. At 1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.45v DRAM I got 1 error in TM5. So, i raised the voltages ever so slightly to 1.42v SA 1.37v IO 1.46v DRAM and started working on the secondary / tertiary timings to get the bandwidth and latency in a good place. Well, it went full barf. 72 errors in 17 minutes as soon as i even remotely tighten tWR / tCWL / tertiary timings so no, that's pushing it a bit too hard lol.

I will try 4400 straight 17's with actually proper secondary and tertiary timings now.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> View attachment 2463261
> 
> 
> This option and the one under that (Turn around timing training can be disabled to make sure it locks it along with Fixed Tertiary and RTL/IO setting in the main screen.
> 
> ONLY do this when your absolutely sure you're not going to change anything timing related.
> 
> 4533 straight 18's is kinda a no go. At 1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.45v DRAM I got 1 error in TM5. So, i raised the voltages ever so slightly to 1.42v SA 1.37v IO 1.46v DRAM and started working on the secondary / tertiary timings to get the bandwidth and latency in a good place. Well, it went full barf. 72 errors in 17 minutes as soon as i even remotely tighten tWR / tCWL / tertiary timings so no, that's pushing it a bit too hard lol.
> 
> I will try 4400 straight 17's with actually proper secondary and tertiary timings now.


This is all you need to disable Training, including rtls iols, secondaries, primary's, and Frequency.


----------



## YoungChris

SuperMumrik said:


> Anyone got a theory on why Geekbenck 3 memory score seems to favor DR sticks over SR by quite a "large" margin when other benchmarks favor the faster SR sticks?
> SR: 4700c17 tuned: ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> DR: 4533c16 Tuned ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> (Don't mind the cpu score since the DR test is running 100Mhz higher)


Think interleaving does a ton for score.
Can you install Geek 3.4.3 or 3.4.4 and retest scores?
Also, can you show ASRock Timing Configurator?


----------



## Imprezzion

That setting is only available on certain (beta) BIOS versions. I don't know which one you run, I have it on 1.2U and 1.2W beta, but he has 1.13 BIOS version according to his screenshot. If that is anything like the old 1.20 stock one for my Ace it only has Memory Fast Boot Enabled or Disabled. No option to turn off training there.

But yeah, that does the same lol.

Now let's see if this survives a full hour of TM5 Extreme without errors:









Have not touched any of the tertiary timings or RTL/IO yet, all still on Auto. I did turn off PPD and so tXP and tCKE have no effect anymore but yeah. 
1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.46v DRAM. 
I'm a little afraid 12 tWR might be pushing it too tight if i wanna drop tRDWR under 15 but we shall see.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> That setting is only available on certain (beta) BIOS versions. I don't know which one you run, I have it on 1.2U and 1.2W beta, but he has 1.13 BIOS version according to his screenshot. If that is anything like the old 1.20 stock one for my Ace it only has Memory Fast Boot Enabled or Disabled. No option to turn off training there.
> 
> But yeah, that does the same lol.
> 
> Now let's see if this survives a full hour of TM5 Extreme without errors:
> View attachment 2463270
> 
> 
> Have not touched any of the tertiary timings or RTL/IO yet, all still on Auto. I did turn off PPD and so tXP and tCKE have no effect anymore but yeah.
> 1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.46v DRAM.
> I'm a little afraid 12 tWR might be pushing it too tight if i wanna drop tRDWR under 15 but we shall see.


SA and IO way too high unless you got the worst Chip ever. 
I can run 4400 c17 1,44v 1,32 Sa 1,31 io.
Really tight subtimings and 7/7/7/7.
Error free in every test.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> SA and IO way too high unless you got the worst Chip ever.
> I can run 4400 c17 1,44v 1,32 Sa 1,31 io.
> Really tight subtimings and 7/7/7/7.
> Error free in every test.


Happen to have a AsRock Timing Configurator screenshot of the timings? I mean, IO/SA is probably too high but i needed this much for 4600 18-19-19-39-500 otherwise it would fall flat on it's face in stresstests and couldn't be bothered to lower them honestly. It made it at least, so thats a start. Now on to tertiary / RTL / IO.


----------



## SuperMumrik

YoungChris said:


> Think interleaving does a ton for score.
> Can you install Geek 3.4.3 or 3.4.4 and retest scores?
> Also, can you show ASRock Timing Configurator?


I guess that interleaving makes sense, but aida and games seems to faver SR 
Geek 3.3.1 is the only one that is available at steam(steam license)? Can't update it for the life of me.
I could not find timing config of the dr set, but I had an aida screen on hand


----------



## Walbum4262

Been playing around for 14 days with my F4-3200C14D-16GVK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
Vccio and sa are on auto for the time being And and dram voltage is 1.52v
I’m at 5.1ghz core with AVX offset of 4 due to heat and max uncore I can do is 4700

it’s now 60000% karhu stable along with prime95 various setting 24hour stable... I only have the free version of memtest86 and I can pass the 4 rounds of all the tests several times with no errors

I can run OCCT linpack max I have done is 6 hours..

but I CANNOT run OCCT memory test without fail after about 1 hour and the timer is not Running smooth and lags every 30 secs
The same with the OCCT system test it fails that as well.

many suggestions as to what could cause that problem ?


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, that's a surprise.. I saw that I forgot to set my tRRD_L and S to 6/4 in my previous run so I still did that.

After doing that it won't even start TM5. It's so unstable with those set to 6/4 it will immediately error out of TM5.. I thought it was pretty much a rule that tRRD_L / S had to be 6 / 4 along with tFAW 16??


----------



## Walbum4262

Imprezzion said:


> Well, that's a surprise.. I saw that I forgot to set my tRRD_L and S to 6/4 in my previous run so I still did that.
> 
> After doing that it won't even start TM5. It's so unstable with those set to 6/4 it will immediately error out of TM5.. I thought it was pretty much a rule that tRRD_L / S had to be 6 / 4 along with tFAW 16??











try one of the following combinations


----------



## hackasynthetic

Imprezzion said:


> This option and the one under that (Turn around timing training can be disabled to make sure it locks it along with Fixed Tertiary and RTL/IO setting in the main screen.
> 
> ONLY do this when your absolutely sure you're not going to change anything timing related.


Added random text/vertical spaces here to avoid this when attempting to post: "Oops! We ran into some problems. Please try again later. More error details may be in the browser console."



itssladenlol said:


> This is all you need to disable Training, including rtls iols, secondaries, primary's, and Frequency.


Very nice info on how to disable memory training. Cheers!

Here's what I have on my mobo Asus Prime Z370-A (also seen in sig.) related to the above:
*MRC Fast Boot *has Auto/Disabled/Enabled
*Round Trip Latency* has Auto/Disabled/Enabled
*Turn Around Timing Training* has Disabled/Enabled
*Training Profile* has Auto/Standard Profile/User Profile

Kinda guessing here that I'd need to put it on *User Profile* if I want those RTL and TATT settings from above to have any effect, but unsure. Or maybe not(because when I disabled them all and was on Standard Profile it wouldn't even POST in safe-mode, had to clear CMOS via jumper, posted about this a bit earlier ), in which case I've no idea what *Training Profile* does. I assumed that on *Standard Profile* it would use predefined algos and their settings irrespective of what I've enabled or disabled in *Memory Training Algorithms* submenu. But if this were true, it would've still booted after me disabling all of them while Training Profile was still set on Standard Profile. Oh well...

































EDIT: replaced text "*Training Algorithms*" with "*Memory Training Algorithms*"


----------



## munternet

hackasynthetic said:


> Could you please consider running memtest86 test #6 all 4 passes ? it takes like 14-16 mins. I've had it pass 6+ hours of GSAT but on next warm boot it failed memtest86 only on test #9 (yeah it even passed test #6 but, to be fair, it was only first pass). I'd ask you to also run test #9 but that takes way longer (I don't remember how long, 1+ hours for sure, for all 4 passes of both 6 and 9 tests). But if it does pass both, all 4 passes, then I'm sure you're way stable.
> 
> I'm currently just booted from cold boot and it passes 4 passes of test 6 twice, then a full pass of all 12(?) tests (skipped 13th), and currently still running the passes for both 6&9 tests, but I'm sure it's stable on this run. However if I were to just turn it off then on again, I'm sure it would start to err in test 6 on that future run, without even changing anything in BIOS. Freakin' memory training, I swear! Didn't think I'd have one more variable to consider for stability, but there is it: memory training doing it wrongly sometimes, apparently based on temperature.


Ran a quick test but I am busy testing 4500 currently so don't really have time for too much off-track testing 
I used Memtest86 for a while but now I find the other tests cover the bases pretty well from within windows


----------



## hackasynthetic

Here's the difference between Load Optimized Defaults(LOD) vs XMP vs my attempt at overclocking the RAM (seen in sig.), they're all stable, except the latter will give 2 errors in one of the four passes of memtest86's test 6.

Gallery doesn't work: Gateway time-out Error 504 
so I'm adding all the pics here.

*LOD:*
what I changed from the original LOD:


















































AIDA64 3 consecutive runs:






































Timing info:































































Code:


[2020/10/25 17:14:59]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Auto]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Auto]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [Auto]
CPU Core Ratio [Auto]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [Auto]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Auto]
CPU SVID Support [Auto]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [Auto]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [Auto]
Ring Down Bin [Auto]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [Auto]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Auto]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Auto]
DRAM Voltage [Auto]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Auto]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Auto]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Auto]
PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [Auto]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [Auto]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [Auto]
DRAM Command Rate [Auto]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [Auto]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [Auto]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [Auto]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [Auto]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [Auto]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [Auto]
DRAM Write Latency [Auto]
tRDRD_sg [Auto]
tRDRD_dg [Auto]
tRDWR_sg [Auto]
tRDWR_dg [Auto]
tWRWR_sg [Auto]
tWRWR_dg [Auto]
tWRRD_sg [Auto]
tWRRD_dg [Auto]
tRDRD_dr [Auto]
tRDRD_dd [Auto]
tRDWR_dr [Auto]
tRDWR_dd [Auto]
tWRWR_dr [Auto]
tWRWR_dd [Auto]
tWRRD_dr [Auto]
tWRRD_dd [Auto]
TWRPRE [Auto]
TRDPRE [Auto]
tREFIX9 [Auto]
OREF_RI [Auto]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Auto]
Training Profile [Auto]
DLLBwEn [Auto]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
CHA RFR delay [Auto]
CHB RFR delay [Auto]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]
Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Auto]
CPU Current Capability [Auto]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Auto]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Auto]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Auto]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Auto]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [Auto]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
Package Power Time Window [Auto]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
IA AC Load Line [Auto]
IA DC Load Line [Auto]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Auto]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
ASPM [Disabled]
L1 Substates [Disabled]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Auto]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
VT-d [Disabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Disabled]
Primary Display [Auto]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA384 PCR Bank [Disabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Enabled]
Change Settings [IO=3F8h; IRQ=4]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [Auto]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Standard]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Auto]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Standard]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [Auto]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Standard]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Auto]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Standard]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Extension Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Extension Fan 1 Profile [Standard]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Extension Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Extension Fan 2 Profile [Standard]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Extension Fan 3 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Extension Fan 3 Profile [Standard]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name []
Save to Profile [1]

Next is *XMP:*
what has actually changed compared to previous settings to get XMP:
*






*





















































































































Code:


[2020/10/25 19:12:53]
Ai Overclock Tuner [XMP]
XMP [XMP DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34-1.35V]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Auto]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [Auto]
CPU Core Ratio [Auto]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3200MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Auto]
CPU SVID Support [Auto]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [Auto]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [Auto]
Ring Down Bin [Auto]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [Auto]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Auto]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Auto]
DRAM Voltage [1.3530]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Auto]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Auto]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Auto]
PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [14]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [34]
DRAM Command Rate [Auto]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [Auto]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [Auto]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [Auto]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [Auto]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [Auto]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [Auto]
DRAM Write Latency [Auto]
tRDRD_sg [Auto]
tRDRD_dg [Auto]
tRDWR_sg [Auto]
tRDWR_dg [Auto]
tWRWR_sg [Auto]
tWRWR_dg [Auto]
tWRRD_sg [Auto]
tWRRD_dg [Auto]
tRDRD_dr [Auto]
tRDRD_dd [Auto]
tRDWR_dr [Auto]
tRDWR_dd [Auto]
tWRWR_dr [Auto]
tWRWR_dd [Auto]
tWRRD_dr [Auto]
tWRRD_dd [Auto]
TWRPRE [Auto]
TRDPRE [Auto]
tREFIX9 [Auto]
OREF_RI [Auto]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Auto]
Training Profile [Auto]
DLLBwEn [Auto]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
CHA RFR delay [Auto]
CHB RFR delay [Auto]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]
Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Auto]
CPU Current Capability [Auto]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Auto]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Auto]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Auto]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Auto]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [Auto]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
Package Power Time Window [Auto]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
IA AC Load Line [Auto]
IA DC Load Line [Auto]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Auto]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
ASPM [Disabled]
L1 Substates [Disabled]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Auto]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
VT-d [Disabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Disabled]
Primary Display [Auto]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA384 PCR Bank [Disabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Enabled]
Change Settings [IO=3F8h; IRQ=4]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
Generic Storage Device 0.00 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [70]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
CPU Lower Temperature [40]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [45]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [50]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [45]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [45]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name []
Save to Profile [1]

And now *my attempt* at overclocking it all (and reducing CPU voltage, and avoiding CPU throttling):
DRAM is at 3600 but in this cold boot run it decided to mem train badly so it only fails in memtest86 test6







(note that it passes everything else like TM5, GSAT, Prime95, but if you'd like to suggest something for me to (re)test, I'd be happy to)
With these mem settings though, it did (in a previous boot) pass twice the 4 passes of test 6, then 2+ passes of all memtest tests(except 13th which I deselected), so I know these settings are good, it's just the mem training that's being mean sometimes. I haven't had the chance yet to try the previously suggested BIOS settings to prevent memory training. Just wanted to post all of this first, for informational purposes.

and here's what changed compared to previous BIOS settings from XMP to here(I probably missed 2 screens):






















































































































































































































Code:


[2020/10/25 16:15:44]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:133]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3600MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [171.00]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [45.00]
Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.3794]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [-]
- CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [0.50000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [0.50000]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [33]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [1]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [7]
DRAM Write Latency [13]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [10]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [8]
tWRRD_dr [6]
tWRRD_dd [6]
TWRPRE [27]
TRDPRE [8]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [64]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
DRAM CLK Period [20]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [Standard Profile]
DLLBwEn [2]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [60 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT_READ_DURATION [2]
ODT_READ_DELAY [0]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [1]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [0]
Data Rising Slope [8]
Data Rising Slope Offset [1]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [150]
Package Power Time Window [2]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [154]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Enabled]
Native ASPM [Enabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Enabled]
ASPM [Auto]
L1 Substates [L1.1 & L1.2]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [L1]
PEG - ASPM [Auto]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Disabled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [3 sec]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Enabled]
Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
CPU C3 Report [Enabled]
CPU C6 Report [Enabled]
CPU C7 Report [CPU C7s]
CPU C8 Report [Enabled]
Package C State Limit [Auto]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
VT-d [Enabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [50]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Lower Temperature [36]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [61]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [61]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [55]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [55]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [23oct3600]
Save to Profile [1]


----------



## KedarWolf

Deleted, was meant for AMD CPUs, might work for Intel, but not really set up for it.


----------



## munternet

hackasynthetic said:


> Here's the difference between Load Optimized Defaults(LOD) vs XMP vs my attempt at overclocking the RAM (seen in sig.), they're all stable, except the latter will give 2 errors in one of the four passes of memtest86's test 6.
> 
> Gallery doesn't work: Gateway time-out Error 504
> so I'm adding all the pics here.
> 
> *LOD:*
> what I changed from the original LOD:
> View attachment 2463297
> View attachment 2463298
> 
> View attachment 2463299
> View attachment 2463300
> View attachment 2463301
> View attachment 2463302
> View attachment 2463303
> View attachment 2463304
> 
> AIDA64 3 consecutive runs:
> View attachment 2463305
> View attachment 2463306
> View attachment 2463307
> 
> View attachment 2463308
> View attachment 2463309
> View attachment 2463310
> 
> Timing info:
> View attachment 2463311
> View attachment 2463312
> View attachment 2463313
> View attachment 2463314
> View attachment 2463315
> View attachment 2463316
> View attachment 2463317
> View attachment 2463318
> View attachment 2463319
> View attachment 2463320
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [2020/10/25 17:14:59]
> Ai Overclock Tuner [Auto]
> ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
> SVID Behavior [Auto]
> AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [Auto]
> CPU Core Ratio [Auto]
> BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
> DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
> DRAM Frequency [Auto]
> TPU [Keep Current Settings]
> Power-saving & Performance Mode [Auto]
> CPU SVID Support [Auto]
> CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Current Limit [Auto]
> Ring Down Bin [Auto]
> Min. CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
> Max CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
> Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [Auto]
> Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
> BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Auto]
> DRAM Voltage [Auto]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [Auto]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Voltage [Auto]
> PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [Auto]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [Auto]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [Auto]
> DRAM Command Rate [Auto]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [Auto]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [Auto]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [Auto]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [Auto]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [Auto]
> DRAM Write Latency [Auto]
> tRDRD_sg [Auto]
> tRDRD_dg [Auto]
> tRDWR_sg [Auto]
> tRDWR_dg [Auto]
> tWRWR_sg [Auto]
> tWRWR_dg [Auto]
> tWRRD_sg [Auto]
> tWRRD_dg [Auto]
> tRDRD_dr [Auto]
> tRDRD_dd [Auto]
> tRDWR_dr [Auto]
> tRDWR_dd [Auto]
> tWRWR_dr [Auto]
> tWRWR_dd [Auto]
> tWRRD_dr [Auto]
> tWRRD_dd [Auto]
> TWRPRE [Auto]
> TRDPRE [Auto]
> tREFIX9 [Auto]
> OREF_RI [Auto]
> MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> MCH Full Check [Auto]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [Auto]
> DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
> DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
> CHA RFR delay [Auto]
> CHB RFR delay [Auto]
> ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
> ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
> ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
> ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
> Data Rising Slope [Auto]
> Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Auto]
> CPU Current Capability [Auto]
> CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> VRM Spread Spectrum [Auto]
> CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
> CPU Power Phase Control [Auto]
> CPU VRM Thermal Control [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Current Capability [Auto]
> CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Auto]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> Long Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
> Package Power Time Window [Auto]
> Short Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
> IA AC Load Line [Auto]
> IA DC Load Line [Auto]
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Auto]
> PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
> PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
> ASPM [Disabled]
> L1 Substates [Disabled]
> PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
> DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
> PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
> Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
> Active Processor Cores [All]
> Intel Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
> Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
> Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
> SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
> Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> CPU C-states [Auto]
> CFG Lock [Disabled]
> Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
> VT-d [Disabled]
> Above 4G Decoding [Disabled]
> Primary Display [Auto]
> iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
> RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
> DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
> DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
> IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
> PCIe Speed [Auto]
> SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
> SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
> Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
> SMART Self Test [Enabled]
> SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
> VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
> Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
> Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
> Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
> Security Device Support [Enable]
> SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
> SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
> SHA384 PCR Bank [Disabled]
> SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
> Pending operation [None]
> Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
> Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
> Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
> TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
> Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
> ErP Ready [Disabled]
> Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
> Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
> Power On By Ring [Disabled]
> Power On By RTC [Disabled]
> Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
> HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
> DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
> Depop [Enabled]
> M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
> M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
> Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
> When system is in working state [Off]
> When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
> Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
> Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
> USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
> Serial Port 1 [Enabled]
> Change Settings [IO=3F8h; IRQ=4]
> Network Stack [Disabled]
> Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
> USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
> Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
> USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
> USB9 [Enabled]
> USB10 [Enabled]
> USB11 [Enabled]
> USB12 [Enabled]
> USB13 [Enabled]
> USB14 [Enabled]
> CPU Temperature [Monitor]
> MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
> PCH Temperature [Monitor]
> T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
> CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
> CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
> M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
> AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
> CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
> 3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
> 5V Voltage [Monitor]
> 12V Voltage [Monitor]
> PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
> DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
> DMI Voltage [Monitor]
> Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
> CPU Q-Fan Control [Auto]
> CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
> CPU Fan Profile [Standard]
> AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
> Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Auto]
> Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Standard]
> M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [Auto]
> M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> M.2 Fan Profile [Standard]
> Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Auto]
> Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Standard]
> Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> Extension Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Extension Fan 1 Profile [Standard]
> Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> Extension Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Extension Fan 2 Profile [Standard]
> Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> Extension Fan 3 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Extension Fan 3 Profile [Standard]
> Fast Boot [Disabled]
> Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
> POST Report [5 sec]
> Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
> Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
> Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
> Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
> Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
> Launch CSM [Enabled]
> Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
> Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
> Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
> Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
> OS Type [Other OS]
> Setup Animator [Disabled]
> Load from Profile [1]
> Profile Name []
> Save to Profile [1]
> 
> Next is *XMP:*
> what has actually changed compared to previous settings to get XMP:
> *
> View attachment 2463322
> *
> View attachment 2463323
> View attachment 2463324
> View attachment 2463325
> View attachment 2463326
> View attachment 2463327
> View attachment 2463328
> View attachment 2463329
> View attachment 2463330
> View attachment 2463331
> View attachment 2463332
> View attachment 2463333
> View attachment 2463334
> View attachment 2463335
> View attachment 2463336
> View attachment 2463337
> View attachment 2463338
> View attachment 2463339
> View attachment 2463340
> View attachment 2463341
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [2020/10/25 19:12:53]
> Ai Overclock Tuner [XMP]
> XMP [XMP DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34-1.35V]
> BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
> ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
> SVID Behavior [Auto]
> AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [Auto]
> CPU Core Ratio [Auto]
> BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
> DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
> DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3200MHz]
> TPU [Keep Current Settings]
> Power-saving & Performance Mode [Auto]
> CPU SVID Support [Auto]
> CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Current Limit [Auto]
> Ring Down Bin [Auto]
> Min. CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
> Max CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
> Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [Auto]
> Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
> BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Auto]
> DRAM Voltage [1.3530]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [Auto]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Voltage [Auto]
> PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [14]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [34]
> DRAM Command Rate [Auto]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [Auto]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [Auto]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [Auto]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [Auto]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [Auto]
> DRAM Write Latency [Auto]
> tRDRD_sg [Auto]
> tRDRD_dg [Auto]
> tRDWR_sg [Auto]
> tRDWR_dg [Auto]
> tWRWR_sg [Auto]
> tWRWR_dg [Auto]
> tWRRD_sg [Auto]
> tWRRD_dg [Auto]
> tRDRD_dr [Auto]
> tRDRD_dd [Auto]
> tRDWR_dr [Auto]
> tRDWR_dd [Auto]
> tWRWR_dr [Auto]
> tWRWR_dd [Auto]
> tWRRD_dr [Auto]
> tWRRD_dd [Auto]
> TWRPRE [Auto]
> TRDPRE [Auto]
> tREFIX9 [Auto]
> OREF_RI [Auto]
> MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> MCH Full Check [Auto]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [Auto]
> DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
> DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [Auto]
> CHA RFR delay [Auto]
> CHB RFR delay [Auto]
> ODT RTT WR (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [Auto]
> ODT RTT WR (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [Auto]
> ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
> ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
> ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
> ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
> Data Rising Slope [Auto]
> Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Auto]
> CPU Current Capability [Auto]
> CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> VRM Spread Spectrum [Auto]
> CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
> CPU Power Phase Control [Auto]
> CPU VRM Thermal Control [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Current Capability [Auto]
> CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Auto]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> Long Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
> Package Power Time Window [Auto]
> Short Duration Package Power Limit [Auto]
> IA AC Load Line [Auto]
> IA DC Load Line [Auto]
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Auto]
> PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
> PCH DMI ASPM [Disabled]
> ASPM [Disabled]
> L1 Substates [Disabled]
> PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
> DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
> PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
> Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
> Active Processor Cores [All]
> Intel Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
> Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
> Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
> SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
> Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> CPU C-states [Auto]
> CFG Lock [Disabled]
> Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
> VT-d [Disabled]
> Above 4G Decoding [Disabled]
> Primary Display [Auto]
> iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
> RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
> DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
> DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
> IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
> PCIe Speed [Auto]
> SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
> SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
> Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
> SMART Self Test [Enabled]
> SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
> VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
> Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
> Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
> Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
> Security Device Support [Enable]
> SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
> SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
> SHA384 PCR Bank [Disabled]
> SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
> Pending operation [None]
> Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
> Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
> Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
> TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
> Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
> ErP Ready [Disabled]
> Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
> Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
> Power On By Ring [Disabled]
> Power On By RTC [Disabled]
> Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
> HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
> DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
> Depop [Enabled]
> M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
> M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
> Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
> When system is in working state [Off]
> When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
> Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
> Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
> USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
> Serial Port 1 [Enabled]
> Change Settings [IO=3F8h; IRQ=4]
> Network Stack [Disabled]
> Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
> USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
> Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
> Generic Storage Device 0.00 [Auto]
> USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
> USB9 [Enabled]
> USB10 [Enabled]
> USB11 [Enabled]
> USB12 [Enabled]
> USB13 [Enabled]
> USB14 [Enabled]
> CPU Temperature [Monitor]
> MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
> PCH Temperature [Monitor]
> T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
> CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
> CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
> M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
> AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
> CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
> 3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
> 5V Voltage [Monitor]
> 12V Voltage [Monitor]
> PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
> DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
> DMI Voltage [Monitor]
> Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
> CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
> CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
> CPU Upper Temperature [70]
> CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> CPU Middle Temperature [45]
> CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
> CPU Lower Temperature [40]
> CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
> AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
> Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
> Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [50]
> Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [45]
> Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
> Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
> Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
> Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
> M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
> M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [50]
> M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [45]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
> M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
> M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
> Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
> Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
> Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
> Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [50]
> Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [45]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
> Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
> Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
> Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
> Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Fast Boot [Disabled]
> Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
> POST Report [5 sec]
> Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
> Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
> Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
> Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
> Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
> Launch CSM [Enabled]
> Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
> Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
> Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
> Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
> OS Type [Other OS]
> Setup Animator [Disabled]
> Load from Profile [1]
> Profile Name []
> Save to Profile [1]
> 
> And now *my attempt* at overclocking it all (and reducing CPU voltage, and avoiding CPU throttling):
> DRAM is at 3600 but in this cold boot run it decided to mem train badly so it only fails in memtest86 test6
> View attachment 2463361
> 
> (note that it passes everything else like TM5, GSAT, Prime95, but if you'd like to suggest something for me to (re)test, I'd be happy to)
> With these mem settings though, it did (in a previous boot) pass twice the 4 passes of test 6, then 2+ passes of all memtest tests(except 13th which I deselected), so I know these settings are good, it's just the mem training that's being mean sometimes. I haven't had the chance yet to try the previously suggested BIOS settings to prevent memory training. Just wanted to post all of this first, for informational purposes.
> 
> and here's what changed compared to previous BIOS settings from XMP to here(I probably missed 2 screens):
> View attachment 2463343
> View attachment 2463344
> View attachment 2463345
> View attachment 2463346
> View attachment 2463347
> View attachment 2463349
> View attachment 2463349
> View attachment 2463350
> View attachment 2463351
> View attachment 2463353
> View attachment 2463353
> View attachment 2463354
> View attachment 2463355
> View attachment 2463357
> View attachment 2463358
> View attachment 2463359
> View attachment 2463360
> 
> View attachment 2463362
> View attachment 2463363
> View attachment 2463364
> View attachment 2463365
> View attachment 2463366
> View attachment 2463367
> View attachment 2463368
> View attachment 2463369
> View attachment 2463370
> View attachment 2463371
> View attachment 2463372
> View attachment 2463373
> View attachment 2463374
> View attachment 2463375
> View attachment 2463376
> View attachment 2463378
> View attachment 2463379
> View attachment 2463380
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [2020/10/25 16:15:44]
> Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
> BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
> ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
> SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
> AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
> CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
> 1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
> 2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
> 3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
> 4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
> 5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
> 6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
> BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:133]
> DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
> DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3600MHz]
> TPU [Keep Current Settings]
> Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
> CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
> CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [171.00]
> CPU Graphics Current Limit [45.00]
> Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
> Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
> Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
> Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
> Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
> BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
> - Offset Mode Sign [+]
> - CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
> DRAM Voltage [1.3794]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
> CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
> - Offset Mode Sign [-]
> - CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
> PCH Core Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [0.50000]
> DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [0.50000]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
> DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [33]
> DRAM Command Rate [2N]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [1]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [7]
> DRAM Write Latency [13]
> tRDRD_sg [6]
> tRDRD_dg [4]
> tRDWR_sg [10]
> tRDWR_dg [10]
> tWRWR_sg [6]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [27]
> tWRRD_dg [23]
> tRDRD_dr [6]
> tRDRD_dd [7]
> tRDWR_dr [10]
> tRDWR_dd [10]
> tWRWR_dr [7]
> tWRWR_dd [8]
> tWRRD_dr [6]
> tWRRD_dd [6]
> TWRPRE [27]
> TRDPRE [8]
> tREFIX9 [127]
> OREF_RI [64]
> MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
> DRAM CLK Period [20]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Training Profile [Standard Profile]
> DLLBwEn [2]
> DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
> DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [13]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [13]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [13]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [14]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [14]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [40 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [60 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [40 DRAM Clock]
> ODT_READ_DURATION [2]
> ODT_READ_DELAY [0]
> ODT_WRITE_DURATION [1]
> ODT_WRITE_DELAY [0]
> Data Rising Slope [8]
> Data Rising Slope Offset [1]
> Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
> Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope [Auto]
> Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
> Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
> Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
> Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
> CPU Current Capability [140%]
> CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
> CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
> CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
> CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
> CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
> CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
> CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> Long Duration Package Power Limit [150]
> Package Power Time Window [2]
> Short Duration Package Power Limit [154]
> IA AC Load Line [0.01]
> IA DC Load Line [0.01]
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
> PCI Express Native Power Management [Enabled]
> Native ASPM [Enabled]
> PCH DMI ASPM [Enabled]
> ASPM [Auto]
> L1 Substates [L1.1 & L1.2]
> PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
> DMI Link ASPM Control [L1]
> PEG - ASPM [Auto]
> Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
> Active Processor Cores [All]
> Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
> Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
> Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
> SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Disabled]
> Tcc Offset Time Window [3 sec]
> Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
> Turbo Mode [Enabled]
> CPU C-states [Enabled]
> Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
> CPU C3 Report [Enabled]
> CPU C6 Report [Enabled]
> CPU C7 Report [CPU C7s]
> CPU C8 Report [Enabled]
> Package C State Limit [Auto]
> CFG Lock [Disabled]
> Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
> VT-d [Enabled]
> Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
> Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
> iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
> RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
> DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
> DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
> PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
> IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
> PCIe Speed [Auto]
> SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
> SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
> Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
> SMART Self Test [Enabled]
> SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
> SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
> SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
> SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
> SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
> SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
> SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
> TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
> VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
> VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
> Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
> Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
> Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
> Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
> Security Device Support [Enable]
> SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
> SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
> SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
> Pending operation [None]
> Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
> Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
> Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
> TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
> Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
> ErP Ready [Disabled]
> Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
> Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
> Power On By Ring [Disabled]
> Power On By RTC [Disabled]
> Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
> HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
> DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
> Depop [Enabled]
> M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
> M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
> Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
> When system is in working state [Off]
> When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
> Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
> Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
> USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
> Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
> Network Stack [Disabled]
> Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
> USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
> Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
> USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
> USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
> USB9 [Enabled]
> USB10 [Enabled]
> USB11 [Enabled]
> USB12 [Enabled]
> USB13 [Enabled]
> USB14 [Enabled]
> CPU Temperature [Monitor]
> MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
> PCH Temperature [Monitor]
> T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
> EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
> CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
> CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
> M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
> Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
> Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
> AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
> CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
> 3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
> 5V Voltage [Monitor]
> 12V Voltage [Monitor]
> PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
> DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
> CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
> DMI Voltage [Monitor]
> Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
> CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
> CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
> CPU Upper Temperature [50]
> CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> CPU Middle Temperature [45]
> CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
> CPU Lower Temperature [36]
> CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
> AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
> Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
> Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
> Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
> Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
> Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
> Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [61]
> Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [61]
> Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
> Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
> Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
> Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
> M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
> Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
> Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
> Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
> M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
> M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [55]
> M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
> M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
> M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
> Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
> Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
> Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
> Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
> Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
> Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
> Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
> Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
> Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [55]
> Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
> Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
> Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
> Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
> Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
> Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
> Fast Boot [Disabled]
> Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
> POST Report [5 sec]
> Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
> Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
> Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
> Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
> Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
> Launch CSM [Enabled]
> Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
> Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
> Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
> Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
> OS Type [Other OS]
> Setup Animator [Disabled]
> Load from Profile [1]
> Profile Name [23oct3600]
> Save to Profile [1]


There is a lot of information here. I doubt anyone will read it all 

Have you tried the basic settings of the 3600 kit?
Might be worth a crack
3600-16-16-16-36
I always liked a tWR of 16 for a good balance of read,write and copy. Lowering as much as possible didn't seem to yield much return
tRRD_L =6 doesn't seem to hurt performance much but gives some room
tCWL =14 probably

There is a lot you need to work out yourself with trial and error especially with 4x16GB


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> In my MSI Z490 Ace BIOS I can turn off MRC Fastboot and separately disable training all together in a different menu.
> 
> I do leave it enabled for testing random OC's but once it's stable I lock everything to Fixed mode and disable training. Never fails to boot with the same training.
> 
> BTW @munternet you are completely right with the voltage there. I set 4400 straight 17's @ 1.45v just quick and dirty all auto secondary and RTL which at 1.6v doesn't even do 5 minutes without hard locking the PC or spitting out 20+ errors in TM5. Test is at 15 minutes now and no errors.... it really really does not like voltage at 1.6v lol.
> 
> EDIT: Had to raise VCCSA and IO a bit but got easy 1 hour TM5 at 4400 straight 17's by just dropping voltage from 1.60v to 1.45v. I never thought LESS would be better.. they don't even get hot at 1.60v like, 43c..
> 
> View attachment 2463229


Yeah, it's crazy
I'm having trouble with 4500c18 in GSAT when it passed TM5 and I've had to LOWER VDIMM to 1.4V and set io and sa together @ 1.38v to get improvement in both GSAT and TM5
It's easy to do one at a time but to get stable in BOTH is the tricky part


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

M12A bios 0804





ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0804.CAP







drive.google.com


----------



## bscool

hackasynthetic said:


> Much appreciated.
> 
> Meanwhile I found out that I should never disable any/all Training Algorithms because then it won't even POST in safe mode! *MemOK!* won't work either, probably because it respects the now-disabled training algos. It would just hang on the yellow led (aka dram stuff). So the only option was the CLR CMOS jumper.


MemOK should be turned off it will change settings without you knowing. If it doesn't boot with it turned off it means your setting are off.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> M12A bios 0804
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0804.CAP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Hey mate
Cheers for the link but it says I need to request access 
What is new with this one?
Cheers


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Hey mate
> Cheers for the link but it says I need to request access
> What is new with this one?
> Cheers


Don't know but the share group has already been changed to "everyone".

Added "[auto voltage] caps" function to limit auto VCore, IO, and SA.


----------



## Betroz

Walbum4262 said:


> many suggestions as to what could cause that problem ?


Your subtimings are a bit tight if you ask me. Try to set tWR to 9 or 10, tRFC to 280 and tRRD_L to 6. If this doesn't help, you may need to loosen your RTLs and IOLs a bit.


----------



## hackasynthetic

bscool said:


> MemOK should be turned off it will change settings without you knowing. If it doesn't boot with it turned off it means your setting are off.


For me, with Asus Prime Z370-A, MemOK is a physical button on the motherboard which I pressed while PC was on then it auto turned PC off then on again and that yellow led started blinking for a while (some kind of extended memory training no doubt) until it went all static and just froze with it yellow like that. (because I had disabled all Training Algorithms from BIOS, so the only way back in was via the CLR CMOS jumper)
From your reply I'm guessing it can also be a BIOS setting, but I've no such option in my mobo's BIOS.
From my understanding it's off until I physically press the button, and I'm only supposed to press it one time after having installed the DIMMs for the first time and it simply won't boot at all.

My mobo is rather entry level, I see it's priced 3+ times less than that MSI MEG Z490 Ace which seems to have all the right settings for overclocking, like turning off memory training 



munternet said:


> There is a lot of information here. I doubt anyone will read it all


agreed, but maybe someone would find it useful some time if found via the search engine.
I'll try your suggestions soon, after I try the turning off memtraining ones(from prev. posts) and guessing some Slope values (since it hangs at white led if I set them all to 8-1 or 7-1)


----------



## Arctucas

KedarWolf said:


> Deleted, was meant for AMD CPUs, might work for Intel, but not really set up for it.


Ran four iterations last night, just to try it out.

Seems to run OK on my 9900K.

Will do a longer run after work this afternoon.


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm still stuck at tRRD L and S at 10 and 6. Anything lower will error out instantly. Even with tWR 16. tFAW does do 16 tho. Oh well, I'll just work on RTL / IO and tertiary and see if I can get a decent AIDA result bandwidth and latency wise. If the results scale properly with 6 10 then I don't see a problem in it.

I did also see that 4400C17 needs quite a lot higher tRFC. I can run 280 fine on 4200C15 but 4400C17 doesn't even POST 300. I tested it with 400 and that passed so.. it's somewhere in between those 2 haha.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> I tested it with 400 and that passed so.. it's somewhere in between those 2 haha.


350....


----------



## hackasynthetic

Betroz said:


> 350....


352? 2000*352/4400=160ns
I've noticed that on my Samsung B-die if I got below 160ns it will eventually err in TM5, heck if it's low enough the screen is made of garbage pixels and won't POST.

I remember trying 254 from 256 and that err-ed while 256 didn't; ie. 158.75ns vs 160ns (at 3200mhz)


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> 350....


Correct  350 passed. RTL/IO is also tightened up quite a bit compared to 72/72/13/15. I will get 66/66/7/6 but i gotta set the IO Offset one higher. I got Initial 65/65/1/1 on Offset 22/22 now and I gotta run Offset 23/22 to get them to line up perfectly. Forgot to set that this boot. 

I will have to tweak teriary timings quite a bit still. Most are still Auto.


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> M12A bios 0804
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0804.CAP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Is there one for the Extreme?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> Is there one for the Extreme?


The new one is 9908 for extreme.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Got my F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB kit today. What can I do to improve this settings? Currently running TM5.


----------



## Betroz

SoldierRBT said:


> What can I do to improve this settings?


You could try to lower tRFC, tWRRD_sg, tWRRD_dg and tWR a bit more.


----------



## Worldwin

Anyone know what RTT Nom/Park/WR are for and what to do with them. I have left them on auto this whole time.


----------



## Simzak

Hate to be that clueless guy asking stupid questions but which of these kits would be a better buy? They're all around the same price after shipping to New Zealand and I just want the kit that should have the best overclocking potential for games. I have an MSI Z490 Gaming Carbon WiFi and a 10900k @ 5.3ghz. Also I am aware there are probably a lot better kits for the same price but a lot of them newegg/amazon won't ship to New Zealand for some reason and those Royals are the only bdie kits in NZ right now. 



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q1HS7BB?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1




https://www.amazon.com/Viper-Steel-4400MHz-Performance-Memory/dp/B07KXLFDL6/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Viper+Steel+4400mhz&qid=1603787576&sr=8-3










G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory | Computer Lounge


Shop G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory F4-3600C16D-16GTRS Desktop F4-3600C16D-16GTRS at Computer Lounge NZ




www.computerlounge.co.nz





Or would saving up and getting the dual rank 2x16 kit be worth it? 








G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory | Computer Lounge


Shop G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory F4-3600C16D-32GTRS Desktop F4-3600C16D-32GTRS at Computer Lounge NZ




www.computerlounge.co.nz


----------



## Imprezzion

Worldwin said:


> Anyone know what RTT Nom/Park/WR are for and what to do with them. I have left them on auto this whole time.


Don't know exactly what they do but playing around with those did make a difference for me stability wise. Saw it in some guide and someone here mentioned it as well that setting 80/40/40 or some other combination manually could help and it did. I use 80/40/40 for 4400C17.


----------



## ViTosS

Something I want to share, I'm fine tuning again my RAM OC/CPU OC since I changed my CPU, and RAM OC with this new CPU was stable through TM5, Karhu, GSAT and MemTestPro, but look what happened, when I ran Aida64 stress test (CPU, FPU, cache and system memory all together) I had an instantly BSOD, I thought it was CPU vcore, raised it a lot and didn't fix, in the end the problem was RAM voltage, I had to bump from 1.43v to 1.45v to fix that and I was able to run 4h of Aida64 without problems, even my RAM being stable through all the other tests before.


----------



## Mx King Sniper

Simzak said:


> Hate to be that clueless guy asking stupid questions but which of these kits would be a better buy? They're all around the same price after shipping to New Zealand and I just want the kit that should have the best overclocking potential for games. I have an MSI Z490 Gaming Carbon WiFi and a 10900k @ 5.3ghz. Also I am aware there are probably a lot better kits for the same price but a lot of them newegg/amazon won't ship to New Zealand for some reason and those Royals are the only bdie kits in NZ right now.


All are good.

But most of the posts I saw everywhere 3200CL14 and 4000CL17 has better potential than 3600CL16.
I'm also saving for 3200c14 or 4000c17 but still can't decide for 4x8gb or 2x16gb.


----------



## Imprezzion

I use a 2x16GB 3600C16 kit and it isn't bad but not the best bin ever no. It'll do 4200 15-17-17 and 4400 17-17-17 and 4533 18-20-20 but that is the best I've been able to pull out of it. It will boot up to 4800 but no way to stabilize it so far altho that may be more board / CPU IMC at that point.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> It'll do 4200 15-17-17


Did you try 4200 15-16-16 ?


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> Did you try 4200 15-16-16 ?


Yes, and it spits like 50+ errors in 10 minutes in TM5 but I was running 1.60v DRAM and I already found out it hates that a lot as 4400 straight 17's works fine on 1.46v but errors a bunch at 1.60v so maybe they can do it but I didn't try with less voltage yet. 15-17-17 is at 1.60v.

It would be really sweet if they could do straight 15's at 4200


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> It would be really sweet if they could do straight 15's at 4200


My F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB kit doesn't like straight timings at all. It's even anal about 17-18-18 at 4400, but can do 16-17-17 at that speed...go figure.


----------



## munternet

Simzak said:


> Hate to be that clueless guy asking stupid questions but which of these kits would be a better buy? They're all around the same price after shipping to New Zealand and I just want the kit that should have the best overclocking potential for games. I have an MSI Z490 Gaming Carbon WiFi and a 10900k @ 5.3ghz. Also I am aware there are probably a lot better kits for the same price but a lot of them newegg/amazon won't ship to New Zealand for some reason and those Royals are the only bdie kits in NZ right now.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q1HS7BB?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Viper-Steel-4400MHz-Performance-Memory/dp/B07KXLFDL6/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Viper+Steel+4400mhz&qid=1603787576&sr=8-3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory | Computer Lounge
> 
> 
> Shop G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory F4-3600C16D-16GTRS Desktop F4-3600C16D-16GTRS at Computer Lounge NZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.computerlounge.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or would saving up and getting the dual rank 2x16 kit be worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory | Computer Lounge
> 
> 
> Shop G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Silver 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory F4-3600C16D-32GTRS Desktop F4-3600C16D-32GTRS at Computer Lounge NZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.computerlounge.co.nz


Check this out





Desktop


Shop our huge range of Corsair, G.Skill and Kingston DDR5, DDR4 memory for desktop systems from the best DDR5 RAM brands in the industry, in a multitude of capacities, speeds and latency options! - Computer Lounge NZ




www.computerlounge.co.nz





There is a nice 2x16GB Royal B-die kit 3600-16-16-16-36 on special locally 
With local warranty!


----------



## Gregix

Hi again guys.
My platform is z370 [email protected]
While using patriots 4400c19 i managed run them succesfully, error free, game stable, linx whatever stable like 2-3 months with 4100 15-15-15-31 and tight sec and tertiary and whatever. Got me nice 37ns latency area, or 36 with 5.2Ghz CPU OC.
Now
f4-3200c14d-32gvr I have this atm. While cunts goes flawlessly(errors free that is) 3800 14-14-14-31 at same voltage as Vipers(i.e 1.53) they do refuse to do anything above 3800. SA/IO can be 1.35-1.3, they just don't train 3900 15-15-32/34 and they should be.
Is this end of my IMC?
Any advise? Saw somewhere they can do 4300 even, I know my IMC/MB suck at anything above 4200(patriots managed to run them 4300 or even 4400c19, but that's it)...


----------



## Imprezzion

How many GB was the Patriot kit? 8/9 series IMC's hate 16GB modules above 3800


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gregix said:


> Hi again guys.
> My platform is z370 [email protected]
> While using patriots 4400c19 i managed run them succesfully, error free, game stable, linx whatever stable like 2-3 months with 4100 15-15-15-31 and tight sec and tertiary and whatever. Got me nice 37ns latency area, or 36 with 5.2Ghz CPU OC.
> Now
> f4-3200c14d-32gvr I have this atm. While cunts goes flawlessly(errors free that is) 3800 14-14-14-31 at same voltage as Vipers(i.e 1.53) they do refuse to do anything above 3800. SA/IO can be 1.35-1.3, they just don't train 3900 15-15-32/34 and they should be.
> Is this end of my IMC?
> Any advise? Saw somewhere they can do 4300 even, I know my IMC/MB suck at anything above 4200(patriots managed to run them 4300 or even 4400c19, but that's it)...


You need to tweak the ODT.
Try:
wr 80
nom 34
park 120 

This worked on msi z370i.


----------



## Gregix

Patriots were


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to tweak the ODT.
> Try:
> wr 80
> nom 34
> park 120
> 
> This worked on msi z370i.


Thx man, will try it tomorrow. No time now unfortunately.
Patriots were 2x8Gb so yeah. Maybe this is issue.


----------



## NickB2High

Hey guys, just wanted your opinion on my setup.. 

Cpu: 5960x @ 4.5ghz @ 1.3v 

Ram: 3200mhz 12-12-12-24 1T with tight secondary and tercheries (221 rfc) 

Ram voltage: 1.45 
SA voltage: 1.15
IO voltage: 1.15

I am running a 4x8gb set of 3600 c16-16-16-36 g.skill trident z (samsung b die). The reason I'm running at 3200 however is that my Mobo (x99 Msi sli plus) has a max mem multiplier of x32. I am going to experiment with some bclk OCing to get 4000mhz on the ram being that's my maximum. But honestly I'm pretty happy with the performance right now, I'll post some screen shots below of aida, being that x99 can run quad channel set ups. 

Just wondering what y'all think of my ram setup, because as far as I can tell, most people can't get to 3200mhz ram speed on older 5960xs let alone tight timings like that, and as far as I can tell also, CL12-12-12-24 with 1T is pretty wild, but idk I'm kinda newb 😅


Pic is before I got it toally dialed in, 300rfc getting to 220 and before all secondary and tercheri timings were input, but it's all I had rn, scores went up about 1000 across the board with the tighter timings so y'all can just imagine that lol.


----------



## munternet

All tested stable?


----------



## NickB2High

Yep haven't had a crash for over a week so far with just general use/gaming, and zero errors on 24hr mem test and various other 8-12hr stress tests. Seems rock solid


----------



## Simzak

munternet said:


> Check this out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desktop
> 
> 
> Shop our huge range of Corsair, G.Skill and Kingston DDR5, DDR4 memory for desktop systems from the best DDR5 RAM brands in the industry, in a multitude of capacities, speeds and latency options! - Computer Lounge NZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.computerlounge.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a nice 2x16GB Royal B-die kit 3600-16-16-16-36 on special locally
> With local warranty!


Thanks for the advice just ordered it now


----------



## munternet

Simzak said:


> Thanks for the advice just ordered it now


Looks like a nice CPU you have if it's running 5.3GHz stable
You will have to add some PC stats to your sig


----------



## Imprezzion

Here's my final 4400 17-17-17-36-350-2T OC with fully tweaked RTL/IO and secondary / tertiary timings as tight as they will go. I would've liked tighter tertiary timings like tRWR but there is zero room left in them. 13-13-13-13 will go absolutely mental with 120 errors in like, 2 minutes and 14-14-14-14 barely makes it 10 minutes without errors. 

RTL/IO is on the edge of what's possible. Initials 65/65/1/1 with offset 23/22 aligns beautifully at 66/66/7/6. If I drop even one of them it won't POST anymore or trains really wierd like 63/69/8/11 stuff like that. 

DRAM voltage is pretty conservative, 1.460v in BIOS. IO/SA is 1.35/1.40v and it has to be for 4400. Lower IO/SA will fall flat on it's face in Prime95 and higher demand cache loads. 

I will let TM5 run for a few hours just to be sure but i am confident enough in this OC.


----------



## Al75

nilssohn said:


> Hi,
> 
> I made it to get 4x8 GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3200C14D-16GTZR @*4400-16-17-17-30-280 CR2* on the Maximus XI Hero stable in karhu and memtest. In games too, of course.
> 
> Brave 8600K runs on 51/49 with AVX=0 and LLC=7 and is prime stable @1,332-1,341V.
> 
> Additional tweaks in Asus BIOS 1602: RoundTrip, DLLBwEn=3, ODT=80-0-40
> 
> View attachment 2458617
> 
> 
> Nice or not?


Very good... seems even odd the imc on the cpu and not just the Hero, can handle 32gb with that overclock..
however i wouldn't be using 1.56 V on the kit and SA at 1.40 everyday


----------



## mouacyk

Imprezzion said:


> Here's my final 4400 17-17-17-36-350-2T OC with fully tweaked RTL/IO and secondary / tertiary timings as tight as they will go. I would've liked tighter tertiary timings like tRWR but there is zero room left in them. 13-13-13-13 will go absolutely mental with 120 errors in like, 2 minutes and 14-14-14-14 barely makes it 10 minutes without errors.


You've reached 95.94% of theoretical bandwidth (68.75GB/s) at 4400MHz, so I wouldn't sweat it. As long as latency is good, I'd say above 90% on bandwidth is good.

There's only one other 4400 overclock I saw that reached 98.03%, but it was straight 16's and 1.55v on DRAM. Latency of 34.0ns is also fantastic.


----------



## Imprezzion

I tried 16. It needs too much voltage. At that point the voltage itself makes the RAM unstable. 1.6v at least to give it a chance of running 16's and at that point the RAM starts to hate life and errors out due to voltage. It will also do the same on these timings at 1,6v so it's definitely the voltage causing the errors 

TM5 made it 2,5 hours without errors and I turned it off there. It's good enough for my usage which is basically just gaming. If I don't encounter and weirdness or crashes it's fine with me.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Here's my final 4400 17-17-17-36-350-2T OC with fully tweaked RTL/IO and secondary / tertiary timings as tight as they will go. I would've liked tighter tertiary timings like tRWR but there is zero room left in them. 13-13-13-13 will go absolutely mental with 120 errors in like, 2 minutes and 14-14-14-14 barely makes it 10 minutes without errors.
> 
> RTL/IO is on the edge of what's possible. Initials 65/65/1/1 with offset 23/22 aligns beautifully at 66/66/7/6. If I drop even one of them it won't POST anymore or trains really wierd like 63/69/8/11 stuff like that.
> 
> DRAM voltage is pretty conservative, 1.460v in BIOS. IO/SA is 1.35/1.40v and it has to be for 4400. Lower IO/SA will fall flat on it's face in Prime95 and higher demand cache loads.
> 
> I will let TM5 run for a few hours just to be sure but i am confident enough in this OC.
> 
> View attachment 2463690
> 
> 
> View attachment 2463691


Your read and copy is too low for 4400 c17. 
Running 4400 c18 with 5000MHz allcore 4,7Cache and im over 68800read And 65000 copy.


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> Your read and copy is too low for 4400 c17.
> Running 4400 c18 with 5000MHz allcore 4,7Cache and im over 68800read And 65000 copy.


Do you have a link to your total results and testing regime
Seems pretty decent scores


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> Running 4400 c18 with 5000MHz allcore 4,7Cache and im over 68800read And 65000 copy.


Screenshot of timings please.


----------



## Gregix

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to tweak the ODT.
> Try:
> wr 80
> nom 34
> park 120
> 
> This worked on msi z370i.


Ok testing done. No joy. I mean, either this settings or auto boot at all up to 3800, but anything higher no train at all.
So I stick with what I have:








G.skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZ 3800C14 @ 1.536V, SA/IO 1.256V/1.224V
Must test it further, with like p95 small fft 112 and linpack for stability, and ofc BF5...but seems so far good.
And maybe tighten something for latency improvement. Patriot Vipers were notch faster in this regard. Maybe tRFC and tRAS, and ofc tREFI need some rework, as there was different.
After all, mems are good. I guess I need to switch to Zen3 5800x or 10900k to get best of it.
Edit - wrong quote.


----------



## Imprezzion

I had a P0 9900K and later a delidded R0 9900KS. Neither of them went above 3800 with 16GB DR modules. Did 4200 just fine with 8GB SR tho. It has to be a limitation of the IMC somehow I'm guessing. A 10900K(F) doesn't have this "problem" hehe.


----------



## itssladenlol

Will do After work.


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Screenshot of timings please.


Will do After work


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gregix said:


> Ok testing done. No joy. I mean, either this settings or auto boot at all up to 3800, but anything higher no train at all.
> So I stick with what I have:
> View attachment 2463744
> 
> G.skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZ 3800C14 @ 1.536V, SA/IO 1.256V/1.224V
> Must test it further, with like p95 small fft 112 and linpack for stability, and ofc BF5...but seems so far good.
> And maybe tighten something for latency improvement. Patriot Vipers were notch faster in this regard. Maybe tRFC and tRAS, and ofc tREFI need some rework, as there was different.
> After all, mems are good. I guess I need to switch to Zen3 5800x or 10900k to get best of it.
> Edit - wrong quote.


Loose twrrd_dr to 7, and trdrd_sg&twrwr_sg to 7 should reach higher freq.

The best I've seen on a 2DIMM z370 with DR is 4000. Yours is even a 4Dimm board. Your result is already good enough.

The bios tweak from Asrock is not good at high freq. Z390i PG was stuck around 4500 while other z390 itx boards can do 4700 easily.


----------



## munternet

Gregix said:


> Ok testing done. No joy. I mean, either this settings or auto boot at all up to 3800, but anything higher no train at all.
> So I stick with what I have:
> View attachment 2463744
> 
> G.skill F4-3200C14D-32GTZ 3800C14 @ 1.536V, SA/IO 1.256V/1.224V
> Must test it further, with like p95 small fft 112 and linpack for stability, and ofc BF5...but seems so far good.
> And maybe tighten something for latency improvement. Patriot Vipers were notch faster in this regard. Maybe tRFC and tRAS, and ofc tREFI need some rework, as there was different.
> After all, mems are good. I guess I need to switch to Zen3 5800x or 10900k to get best of it.
> Edit - wrong quote.


What's the manufacture date on those sticks? VDIMM may be a little high although I never tried them on that platform but I would think VDIMM is common across platforms 
Edit: and what @OLDFATSHEEP said 
And maybe go for 4000-16-16-16-34-320 or so...


----------



## Gregix

Vdimm...when was 1.504 got errors in tm5 ollie in 8th test. Maybe will try 1.52 or 1.51. Will see. Did not check date on dimms(whre to look?) but box is 2020, if ean gives any hint, then it is from september 2020.


----------



## SoldierRBT

4600C18 on 16GBx2 Kit. Very loose timings but I'm okay with that. Anything I can improve that won't affect stability too much?


----------



## KedarWolf

Gregix said:


> Vdimm...when was 1.504 got errors in tm5 ollie in 8th test. Maybe will try 1.52 or 1.51. Will see. Did not check date on dimms(whre to look?) but box is 2020, if ean gives any hint, then it is from september 2020.


Doesn't Ollie only use like 8 cores? It does on my 3950x. Maybe Anta Extreme or 1usmus_v3 better?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> 4600C18 on 16GBx2 Kit. Very loose timings but I'm okay with that. Anything I can improve that won't affect stability too much?
> 
> View attachment 2463762


4400 16-16 should be better performance if you can do that. 4400 16-16 shouldnt need too much io and sa too.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

KedarWolf said:


> Doesn't Ollie only use like 8 cores? It does on my 3950x. Maybe Anta Extreme or 1usmus_v3 better?


Set "Cores=0" will utilize all cores. And the original Ollie is 40 cycles.


----------



## munternet

Gregix said:


> Vdimm...when was 1.504 got errors in tm5 ollie in 8th test. Maybe will try 1.52 or 1.51. Will see. Did not check date on dimms(whre to look?) but box is 2020, if ean gives any hint, then it is from september 2020.


Maybe try 1.4v to 1.45vdimm
The sticker on the ram has a code on it with a 20 for the year and a number next to it for the week


----------



## cykex

i was wondering is it worth disable ppd ? i have with ppd 1 and txp 8 34.6ns with ppd 0 33.1ns
what is the side effects when ppd on 0?


----------



## SoldierRBT

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 4400 16-16 should be better performance if you can do that. 4400 16-16 shouldnt need too much io and sa too.


Made some improvements and got a little better Write and Copy scores. Lowered DRAM, IO and SA voltages but need to keep testing.
I gave up trying to set a 4400 16-17-17 profile. It was too inconsistent with RTLs values and sometimes it wouldn't even boot (55 and F7 codes) even after passing TM5 Extreme. The best I could get was 62/62/8/8 and it had the same issue. I believe RTL values change with DRAM temperature.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> Made some improvements and got a little better Write and Copy scores. Lowered DRAM, IO and SA voltages but need to keep testing.
> I gave up trying to set a 4400 16-17-17 profile. It was too inconsistent with RTLs values and sometimes it wouldn't even boot (55 and F7 codes) even after passing TM5 Extreme. The best I could get was 62/62/8/8 and it had the same issue. I believe RTL values change with DRAM temperature.
> 
> View attachment 2463776


Temperature affects signal quality. You have to lock the RTLs&IOLs when your signal quality is close to the edge.

55 is mostly a training issue, and improper RTL/IOL can easily cause such issues.

Personally I would keep cl under 17 for daily use. cl 18 and 19 are for micron/DJR chips


----------



## SoldierRBT

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Temperature affects signal quality. You have to lock the RTLs&IOLs when your signal quality is close to the edge.
> 
> 55 is mostly a training issue, and improper RTL/IOL can easily cause such issues.
> 
> Personally I would keep cl under 17 for daily use. cl 18 and 19 are for micron/DJR chips


I enabled Round Trip latency to get good RTL/IOL values and then locked them. 
62/62/8/8
61/62/7/8
Both would pass TM5 Extreme but failed F7 code when restarting. 4400 16-17-17 boots fine but 17-17-17 or 17-18-18 are 55 code.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> I enabled Round Trip latency to get good RTL/IOL values and then locked them.
> 62/62/8/8
> 61/62/7/8
> Both would pass TM5 Extreme but failed F7 code when restarting. 4400 16-17-17 boots fine but 17-17-17 or 17-18-18 are 55 code.


Seems like IMC, might add some IO&SA to see how it goes. RTL might need to be tweaked to POST straight 17 or 17-18. Can also try DLLBWEN=1.


----------



## Betroz

But are too low RTLs and IOLs really worth the added voltage, that is the question.
@SoldierRBT : My CPU needs 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA to be stable at 4400 16-17-17... So IMC may play a part in this for you aswell.


----------



## acrvr

I just got 2x8GB Patriot Steel 4400C19 dimms. 

Running 4400 18-19-19-40 1.48V RAM, 1.29 IO, 1.34 SA

I'm getting one error around 40mins mark (2nd cycle) of anta777 test. 

Maybe higher SA?


----------



## Imprezzion

What CPU? For 10xxx this should be enough, for 8xxx or 9xxx you probably need more SA IO yes. It's not RAM or ram voltage at least, those DIMMs should be able to do way tighter timings then that at 1.48v.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Betroz said:


> But are too low RTLs and IOLs really worth the added voltage, that is the question.
> @SoldierRBT : My CPU needs 1.37 IO and 1.45 SA to be stable at 4400 16-17-17... So IMC may play a part in this for you aswell.


Adding more IO/SA voltage doesn't seem to solve the 55 code. 4400 17-18-18 with everything on auto would boot and pass stress test but would 55 code randomly. I think G.Skill hasn't released the 4400 17-18-18 32GB kit 1.5v because BIOS still buggy.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> Adding more IO/SA voltage doesn't seem to solve the 55 code. 4400 17-18-18 with everything on auto would boot and pass stress test but would 55 code randomly. I think G.Skill hasn't released the 4400 17-18-18 32GB kit 1.5v because BIOS still buggy.


They even added 0.05V to the 4266C17D spec to ensure they get enough ram for sale.


----------



## acrvr

Imprezzion said:


> What CPU? For 10xxx this should be enough, for 8xxx or 9xxx you probably need more SA IO yes. It's not RAM or ram voltage at least, those DIMMs should be able to do way tighter timings then that at 1.48v.


Intel 10600K with MSI Unify ITX motherboard. 

You are correct, the SA IO voltages were already good. It was the tWR being too low at 10. I raised tWR back to 16 and now it's running 4400 17-17-17 stable through anta777. 

This is a better bin than the Teamgroup ARGB 4000C18 I use before this, also Samsung B die. Needed 1.52v DRAM to reach 4300MHz on that one. 

This is the last timings I have on the Patriot Dimm. I still need more time to tune the other timings as I just got this ram a couple of hours ago.


----------



## munternet

acrvr said:


> Intel 10600K with MSI Unify ITX motherboard.
> 
> You are correct, the SA IO voltages were already good. It was the tWR being too low at 10. I raised tWR back to 16 and now it's running 4400 17-17-17 stable through anta777.
> 
> This is a better bin than the Teamgroup ARGB 4000C18 I use before this, also Samsung B die. Needed 1.52v DRAM to reach 4300MHz on that one.
> 
> This is the last timings I have on the Patriot Dimm. I still need more time to tune the other timings as I just got this ram a couple of hours ago.
> 
> View attachment 2463842


The tWRWR_sg and tRDRD_sg could be lower for better read/ write speed


----------



## Gregix

munternet said:


> Maybe try 1.4v to 1.45vdimm
> The sticker on the ram has a code on it with a 20 for the year and a number next to it for the week


Can't do. Anything lower than 1.536V with my timings, ie. 3800c14 results in errors. Like, when I set 1.49V it gives me errors in 1st cycle Ollie in second test. As said earlier, 1.51 or so in 8th test in 1st cycle. All working fine with Vdimm 1.536V as was working with Patriots too, so...and temps are normal, like 39max, and in summer I had maybe 10 degree more due higher ambient and all memory test were fine then. Have good airflow, so temps are not a concern.

And as box said, on mems is prod date, September 2020, so brand new.
Time to switch to Zen3 and RDNA2 I guess...


----------



## hackasynthetic

After tons of time testing and fiddling with settings(still not finished) but I've found out that *DLLBwEn*=4 is better(more stable and trains faster) for my case than =3 or =2, and found that *Memory Scrambler* on *Disabled* gives thousands of errors in first pass of test 6 of memtest86(v8.4 Free), but on *Enabled* it only gives 2 errors in one pass of test 6 after 8 or 12 passes.

*EDIT: *I was actually thinking here to dare anyone to set it to Disabled just to see if they're still stable. I guess if you're stable on Disabled, you should be super stable on Enabled, judging solely from my experience.

Some info: "Scrambling is used on the DQ lines to scramble the bits which results in reduced current." Or "Scrambler Setting: Alternates data patterns to minimize the impact of load transients and noise on the memory bus. A setting of optimized is recommended for most configurations. " which refers to this pdf.

I still have lots of eg. *DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4* on *[Auto]* which I have to set to some manual value, then I'll see if it still errors when all are on non-Auto. Setting them to the same value wouldn't POST (at least not when I've had DLLBwEn=3 or =2).


----------



## Betroz

hackasynthetic said:


> *DLLBwEn*=4


DLLBWen=0 was a tip I got in here. Although I haven't a clue what that setting really does, or what values are good or for what memory frequency.


----------



## hackasynthetic

Betroz said:


> DLLBWen=0 was a tip I got in here. Although I haven't a clue what that setting really does, or what values are good or for what memory frequency.


Yeah I don't know either. For me 0,1,5,6 wouldn't POST. 2,3,4 would POST(with 4 being best, currently) and 7 (which is max value) I didn't try.
BIOS description says a value of 2 to 4 is best for when overclocking. Somebody somewhere said it's another kind of latency, though I didn't notice any AIDA64 benchmark difference between =2 and =4 but maybe if there was any it was at most 100 MB/sec

Have you also set any value for DRAM CLK Period ? I think it goes from 0 to 99, besides Auto, on my mobo. If I let it on Auto it also won't POST, currently on 19 and 20 does POST.


----------



## Betroz

hackasynthetic said:


> Have you also set any value for DRAM CLK Period ?


Nope.


----------



## 638220

Pounding out every last megahert from my ram kit
[email protected] - [email protected]








Overclocking the GSKILL F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR ramkit to 4257MHz with the same xmp primary timings.


----------



## japau

Have you guys tested the AIDA64 scores in real apps thoroughly? In my tests read/write/copy doesn't translate to faster/better performance most of the time. Latency has bigger effect when taking account time involving tasks ex. gaming or similar.


----------



## 638220

japau said:


> Have you guys tested the AIDA64 scores in real apps thoroughly? In my tests read/write/copy doesn't translate to faster/better performance most of the time. Latency has bigger effect when taking account time involving tasks ex. gaming or similar.


Yep, I tested in modern warfare 2 1080p full ultra vs my [email protected] profile(34.5ns latency) with the same core/cache speed and 4257mhz yielded an improvement of 1-3 fps higher for minimum fps and average fps compared to the 3933 profile. Glops in linpack extreme are also higher with the 4257 profile compared to the 3933 profile, average increased by 3. geekbench 3 yields about 9200 memory performance for 4257 and the 3933 profile gets 8700. Those are my 2 best profiles.


----------



## japau

blacknbigger212 said:


> Yep, I tested in modern warfare 2 1080p full ultra vs my [email protected] profile(34.5ns latency) with the same core/cache speed and 4257mhz yielded an improvement of 1-3 fps higher for minimum fps and average fps compared to the 3933 profile. Glops in linpack extreme are also higher with the 4257 profile compared to the 3933 profile, average increased by 3. geekbench 3 yields about 9200 memory performance for 4257 and the 3933 profile gets 8700. Those are my 2 best profiles.


Ok good information. I have not had that clear differences.


----------



## Betroz

blacknbigger212 said:


> yielded an improvement of 1-3 fps higher for minimum fps and average fps


Ohh dear that's huge! Within margin of error comes to mind... LOL


----------



## 638220

Betroz said:


> Ohh dear that's huge! Within margin of error comes to mind... LOL


I would normally agree with you. But then I tested another map that I had done much testing with my 3933 profile on. With 4257, minimum fps went up by 9 and average went up by 8. On the other hand, firestrike went down by a couple hundred points. But i'm seeing gains in the games I play when it comes to minimum fps and average fps so i'll take it. Pursuit of performance is the mantra here right?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> DLLBWen=0 was a tip I got in here. Although I haven't a clue what that setting really does, or what values are good or for what memory frequency.


DLLBwEn=4 was better on Asus Z370


----------



## japau

Betroz said:


> DLLBWen=0 was a tip I got in here. Although I haven't a clue what that setting really does, or what values are good or for what memory frequency.





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> DLLBwEn=4 was better on Asus Z370


My memory didnt overlock to 4400 Mhz before setting DLLBwEN=0 so i would really appreciate if someone can come to explanation for what does it actually do. 

In the end 4400c17-2T was not faster than 4200c16-1T, but still would be nice to know what DLLBwEN does and why is it the key to allow higher clocks. Probably it will adjust some voltages not seen on VCCSA/VCCIO and because of that makes things happen.


----------



## SoldierRBT

32GB 4200 16-17-17 1.45v DRAM 1.20v IO/SA


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

japau said:


> My memory didnt overlock to 4400 Mhz before setting DLLBwEN=0 so i would really appreciate if someone can come to explanation for what does it actually do.
> 
> In the end 4400c17-2T was not faster than 4200c16-1T, but still would be nice to know what DLLBwEN does and why is it the key to allow higher clocks. Probably it will adjust some voltages not seen on VCCSA/VCCIO and because of that makes things happen.


thx for the info. Before I can only set DLLBwEn to 4, in order to get it higher than 4500 on Maximus X APEX. I did not try 0 on Z370 tho.


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> 32GB 4200 16-17-17 1.45v DRAM 1.20v IO/SA
> View attachment 2463932


That's almost exactly what I got in terms of voltage and performance
My only difference being I ran straight 17s with lower tertiaries
That small drop from 4400 to 4200 made it so much easier to set


----------



## Arctucas

Speaking of DllBwEn, I have four:









I believe I should change (3) as it is for 1867 and up.

I raised it from default of 3 to 4. Should I be going down to 2 or even lower?


----------



## SoldierRBT

munternet said:


> That's almost exactly what I got in terms of voltage and performance
> My only difference being I ran straight 17s with lower tertiaries
> That small drop from 4400 to 4200 made it so much easier to set


4200C16 seems to be the sweet spot in terms of voltages for daily use. I also have a 4500C17 profile that passed TM5 Extreme but would randomly 55 code when I restart the PC. Same story for 4400C16. 4600C18 was very easy to set.


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> 4200C16 seems to be the sweet spot in terms of voltages for daily use. I also have a 4500C17 profile that passed TM5 Extreme but would randomly 55 code when I restart the PC. Same story for 4400C16. 4600C18 was very easy to set.
> 
> View attachment 2463958


I'll have to get a set of those sticks and have a go


----------



## hackasynthetic

This is as far as I could go transforming [*Auto*] into manual values, because it would just err too much. Even with these settings I'm getting 10+ errors most of the cold boots(which is when memory training happens and messes up those hidden settings). My best cold boot with these settings was when memtest86 v8.4 test 6 passed 14 times but on 15th pass it spewed only 2 errors.
It seems that whatever value I change any of the *Auto* to, affects the other *Auto*s, or rather I should say it affects what memtraining assigns to the other *Auto*s,, so it would either not POST, or if it does it spews way more errors than usual.

These are all that are left:


Code:


DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]

I'm thinking sometimes memtraining sets these values less optimally, hence why I sometimes won't even POST, sometimes I get 10+ errors in test6, and sometimes I can go 14 passes of test 6 without any errors(but bam 2 errors in 15th pass). ("sometimes" implies a cold boot happened which is when memtraining happens)

I think that unless I know which values to set them all at once, I've no chance of assigning them all.

At this point I've wasted so much time that I don't care if it's Asus's fault, my next board won't be Asus that's for sure. (ok, well, unless by some kind of miracle Asus would be willing to help fix their memtraining being this wonky - but I'm not even bothering trying support, by what I've heard, plus they need too much personal information as a prerequisite) Btw, if anyone knows who has the best support, do let me know. I'm thinking MSI or EVGA next.


full bios settings:



Code:


[2020/10/31 01:06:01]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:133]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3600MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [171.00]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [45.00]
Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.3794]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [-]
- CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
PCH Core Voltage [1.00000]
CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [0.50000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [0.50000]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [21]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [21]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [22]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [16]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [16]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [16]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [16]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [14]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [18]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [22]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [20]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [33]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [288]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [1]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [7]
DRAM Write Latency [13]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [10]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [8]
tWRRD_dr [6]
tWRRD_dd [6]
TWRPRE [27]
TRDPRE [8]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [64]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
DRAM CLK Period [19]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [User Profile]
DLLBwEn [4]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [13]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [60 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT_READ_DURATION [2]
ODT_READ_DELAY [0]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [1]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [0]
Data Rising Slope [8]
Data Rising Slope Offset [1]
Cmd Rising Slope [8]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [1]
Ctl Rising Slope [8]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [1]
Clk Rising Slope [4]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [1]
Data Falling Slope [8]
Data Falling Slope Offset [1]
Cmd Falling Slope [8]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [1]
Ctl Falling Slope [8]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [1]
Clk Falling Slope [4]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [1]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [150]
Package Power Time Window [2]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [154]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Enabled]
Native ASPM [Enabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Enabled]
ASPM [Auto]
L1 Substates [L1.1 & L1.2]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [L1]
PEG - ASPM [Auto]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Disabled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [3 sec]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Enabled]
Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
CPU C3 Report [Enabled]
CPU C6 Report [Enabled]
CPU C7 Report [CPU C7s]
CPU C8 Report [Enabled]
Package C State Limit [Auto]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
VT-d [Enabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [50]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Lower Temperature [36]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [61]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [61]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [55]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [40]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [55]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [23oct3600]
Save to Profile [1]


*EDIT:* well, now with the exact same settings it's become very hard to get the 2 errors in a pass. After 45 passes of test 6 (memtest86) I've only gotten 2 errors in one pass once! Done it multiple times since, like 20+ passes per session, with no errors. I'm thinking some hidden settings got pushed to other values when I temporarily tried higher frequencies (since I've posted this post) like 4000 Mhz (which didn't POST ofc) and other settings, then restored the original settings manually (ie. not by loading the .cmo file!), heck maybe these settings aren't even saved in the CMOS, but for sure they're affecting stability. I've no other explanation but will keep trying!

*EDIT2:* (4 days later) Lookslike because *Memory Scrambler* on Enabled increases stability, that's why it seemed to show no errors for many passes of T6. But the more T6 passes are run, the more likely it is for the 2 errors to be revealed. So, the solution is Memory Scrambler to *Disabled* until I find the DRAM frequency that doesn't err! And timings don't matter (they can delay the error though!), and also to speed up the errors showing up, I've had to *disable: Turbo, SpeedShift, SpeedStep* - so basically just run at the same CPU freq. (3700Mhz) all the time, which I've noticed means it would show errors in 1st pass of test 6, instead of in pass 5 or 6 or later. But lowering the DRAM freq from 3600 to 3500, it still may require 70 passes of T6 to catch any errors (got errors only after 56 passes, seen them exist while test was on pass 68 which passed ok). So I'm now at 3400 Mhz, testing and lowering timings for this speed...


----------



## Betroz

Bouncing off the IMC limit of my 10900K :


----------



## Betroz

If uncore was at 4800, then latency would have been under 36ns. Read score dipped under 66K in the second bench run :


----------



## somnion

delete


----------



## itssladenlol

Any idea what skews i could use on msi z490 ace with trident Z 3200 c14 2x16gb dual rank?
Atm running 4400 18 18 18 38 @ 1,44v 1,3Sa 1,3io


----------



## YoungChris

Does anyone have a Gigabyte Aorus board and 4 sets of memory with the same die?
A friend of mine was doing some testing on his Z490 Aorus Master, bios X5a, and 4 sticks of Samsung E-Die, and managed to get it running at 4266mhz with 1t!








Unfortunately, he can't even get 1t stable at CL17, something relating to his IMC erroring when IO or SA exceed a certain threshold (like 1.3, really low) but maybe others won't have the same issue.
Edit: 4266 15-21-21-28 2t is daily stable, 1t is the issue.


----------



## ViTosS

Question, I'm trying to stabilize again my RAM OC in this new CPU, I passed the following stress tests for CPU with RAM default XMP (no RAM OC yet): Aida64, Realbench 2.56, Prime95 112k FFTs. Alright, so I went to RAM OC, ran TM5 Anta Extreme and passed with 1.430v DRAM and 1.20 VCCIO/VCCSA, so I went to Prime95 112k FFTs and I have threads crashing as soon as I press start stress test, so I went and raised DRAM voltage (since I supose it's related to RAM, because I passed with no RAM OC fine) from 1.430v to 1.440v, I was able to start and after 35 min 1 thread crashed, so I went and raised from 1.440v to 1.450v DRAM, this time it went until 1h37min and then 1 thread crashed, I raised to 1.460v and 1 thread crashed at 13 min, so something must be wrong, I thought raising VCCIO/VCCSA and didn't work, so I went and raised 0.02v in CPU and put DRAM back to 1.430v (the voltage that I couldn't even start Prime95) and it was success and I'm running now the stress test, that is really weird to me because increasing DRAM voltage seemed to fix for a bit in Prime95 and it couldn't be CPU because it passed in the same stress test but with RAM stock XMP no OC.

If I have a crash again in the Prime95, even passing through all 4 RAM stress testers (Karhu, GSAT, TM5 and MemTestPro) should I always think is CPU and not RAM related?


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Question, I'm trying to stabilize again my RAM OC in this new CPU, I passed the following stress tests for CPU with RAM default XMP (no RAM OC yet): Aida64, Realbench 2.56, Prime95 112k FFTs. Alright, so I went to RAM OC, ran TM5 Anta Extreme and passed with 1.430v DRAM and 1.20 VCCIO/VCCSA, so I went to Prime95 112k FFTs and I have threads crashing as soon as I press start stress test, so I went and raised DRAM voltage (since I supose it's related to RAM, because I passed with no RAM OC fine) from 1.430v to 1.440v, I was able to start and after 35 min 1 thread crashed, so I went and raised from 1.440v to 1.450v DRAM, this time it went until 1h37min and then 1 thread crashed, I raised to 1.460v and 1 thread crashed at 13 min, so something must be wrong, I thought raising VCCIO/VCCSA and didn't work, so I went and raised 0.02v in CPU and put DRAM back to 1.430v (the voltage that I couldn't even start Prime95) and it was success and I'm running now the stress test, that is really weird to me because increasing DRAM voltage seemed to fix for a bit in Prime95 and it couldn't be CPU because it passed in the same stress test but with RAM stock XMP no OC.
> 
> If I have a crash again in the Prime95, even passing through all 4 RAM stress testers (Karhu, GSAT, TM5 and MemTestPro) should I always think is CPU and not RAM related?


This is a perfect time to check skew control
I had some overclocks that wouldn't get stable no matter what I tried for months, now I have much less trouble and have even managed to lower the voltages 








The Importance of Skew Control for Memory Overclocking


seeing those third timings run ghostrunner.. with hwinfo open. lol




www.overclock.net


----------



## TheBoom

Somehow the new Asus bios 0707 has destabilised my mem oc. I can pass Anta for 1.5 hrs but memtest fails 1 thread at random intervals between 30-70 mins.

Wondering if it's a vccio/vccsa issue rather than ram.

Trying out skew control now to see if it helps.


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> Somehow the new Asus bios 0707 has destabilised my mem oc


If you got the Apex board, get the 0088 BIOS.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> Any idea what skews i could use on msi z490 ace with trident Z 3200 c14 2x16gb dual rank?
> Atm running 4400 18 18 18 38 @ 1,44v 1,3Sa 1,3io


I use 80-40-40 for 4400C17-17-17-36 @ 1.45v 1.40 SA 1.35 IO with 2x16 dual rank.


----------



## ViTosS

My new RAM kit is coming ([email protected] BDie) finally, I will aim for [email protected] for daily, any tips on how to start off with voltages? DRAM, VCCIO/VCCSA?


----------



## Imprezzion

On what CPU/Board? Generally 1.4v RAM 1.25v SA 1.20v IO would be my starting point on 10xxx CPU's and 1.30v SA 1.25v IO on 9xxx as they need all the help they can get for 4200 lol.


----------



## somnion

How do these map to each other?


----------



## SunnyStefan

somnion said:


> How do these map to each other?
> 
> View attachment 2464357
> View attachment 2464358


Hey I can help you, but it would be much easier for both of us if you shared more information. Why do you keep removing the numbers next to these values in your posts? Please share _uncropped_ screenshots that display your values from the BIOS / ASrock Timing Configurator. What sort of motherboard and memory configuration (ie: 2 x 16gb) are you working with?


----------



## hackasynthetic

For what is worth, I'd like to share something. I may be wrong, but this is my experience: a way to figure out if the current DRAM frequency is stable or if it's not then I know I'd have to lower it. It works for me, so ymmv.

I've to *disable Turbo, SpeedShift, SpeedStep*, so that CPU is running at same static frequency (3700Mhz for me, see signature for rig specs). Then, set *Memory Scrambler* to *Disabled*. Because when it's on Enabled, it's far more stable and the errors will only show up later while testing for them, and there will be less number of errors too. Also when Turbo,SpeedShift,SpeedStep and possibly other power saving features like CPU C-states(which I've also disabled, but unsure if they're needed to be disabled for this test; *EDIT1:* they're still better to be disabled as per this future discovery even though test 6 will pass with them enabled!), the errors will show up later in the tests (like 15+ passes of test 6, instead of in first or second pass).

Then use *memtest86* (from PassMark eg. v8.4, didn't try the other one or memtest86+) to run *test 6* in for at least 70 passes, before even considering any other test. If they all pass, it's probably a good freq., try other tests, memtest86 tests, or TM5 etc. If those pass, just enable Memory Scrambler to be god-like stable  Or, maybe even, enable it before trying the other tests... I haven't gotten to that point yet! ... but I wouldn't enable it if I wanted to find errors.

The memory timings don't really matter(apparently), but they may delay the time wasted until the errors are showing up. I think I must've made like 150+ changes to timings settings(and saved them in .txt/.cmo files too) and it would still eventually err, sometimes sooner sometimes later on.

In my experience 4x sticks at 3600Mhz was giving me 12 errors pretty fast(with Memory Scrambling disabled ofc). Lowered it to 3500Mhz, still got errors but on later passes of test 6. Fiddled with the timings like RTL/IOLs, and it even went ok for 56 passes(at least) but then, before pass 68 it errored (don't remember how many errors, have a photo though - not currently handy). So memory timings settings, can delay when the errors show up. I bet if I had Memory Scrambler on Enabled, it would've taken like 2 days to see like 2 errors, but this way (with it Disabled), only took like 5+ hours.

Now I'm at 3400Mhz, needs lots of testing, but at least I was able to lower timings more at this freq....
Yeah, I'm not ready to accept faster RAM speeds if it has the possibility of error-ing even once, even if it does it only once per 2 days, hence why I'm more than happy to lower it.


----------



## somnion

SunnyStefan said:


> Hey I can help you, but it would be much easier for both of us if you shared more information. Why do you keep removing the numbers next to these values in your posts? Please share _uncropped_ screenshots that display your values from the BIOS / ASrock Timing Configurator. What sort of motherboard and memory configuration (ie: 2 x 16gb) are you working with?


You’d think the configurator and the board both being Asrock they’d use the same terminology. It’s 2x16 B-Die. I don’t have any values to share it’s all on auto. It has an optimisation setting that lets you pick between loosest normal and tightest.


----------



## itssladenlol

If my unigine superposition Crashs randomly with weird artifacts to Desktop, that means my ram oc isnt stable right? 
This 1080ti never had any issues in the last 4 years, so i guess my 4400 c18 1,4v 1,3Sa/1,3io isnt stable.. 
Karhu 24hrs and hci 24hrs showed zero errors, Same for realbench....
Weird... 
Gonna try slopes/odt now.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> On what CPU/Board? Generally 1.4v RAM 1.25v SA 1.20v IO would be my starting point on 10xxx CPU's and 1.30v SA 1.25v IO on 9xxx as they need all the help they can get for 4200 lol.


i9 9900ks/Apex XI Z390. I was thinking something like 1.45v DRAM and 1.25v IO/SA, maybe too low for [email protected]?


----------



## Simzak

itssladenlol said:


> If my unigine superposition Crashs randomly with weird artifacts to Desktop, that means my ram oc isnt stable right?
> This 1080ti never had any issues in the last 4 years, so i guess my 4400 c18 1,4v 1,3Sa/1,3io isnt stable..
> Karhu 24hrs and hci 24hrs showed zero errors, Same for realbench....
> Weird...
> Gonna try slopes/odt now.


The problem is probably the temperature of your sticks, when my GPU is running at 100% it heats up my ram and then I start getting errors with borderline unstable overclocks.


----------



## TheBoom

Simzak said:


> The problem is probably the temperature of your sticks, when my GPU is running at 100% it heats up my ram and then I start getting errors with borderline unstable overclocks.


Yeah had that problem with my old Hynix A die kit. They were extremely voltage and temperature sensitive.

My current Micron e-dies don’t seem to care as much even up to 75c on the sticks.

However something isn’t right after bios update, keep getting 1 error after an hour regardless of temps. Might need to realign rtls.


----------



## itssladenlol

Simzak said:


> The problem is probably the temperature of your sticks, when my GPU is running at 100% it heats up my ram and then I start getting errors with borderline unstable overclocks.


Totally forgot to Check temps, will do thanks.


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> i9 9900ks/Apex XI Z390. I was thinking something like 1.45v DRAM and 1.25v IO/SA, maybe too low for [email protected]?


You can always start there but my guess is that you're going to need more IO/SA then that.


----------



## Betroz

Loose timings and only 4700 cache, and a bit high VDIMM for stability reasons. Same VDIMM as my 4300C16 profile. Good thing my RAM sticks scale with voltage.


----------



## hackasynthetic

hey, I've just figured out that higher *tRFC* is needed when CPU *C-States* >= *C3* are enabled in BIOS (that is, higher or equal to C3), otherwise it will simply hang at Windows 7 (64bit) startup when the 4 colors of the windows logo move in and connect into one forming the windows logo, or usually just shows garbage pixels on the screen at that point(and some are still twitching/flashing). If I simply disable C3, it boots just fine. If I enable it, or any other >=C3, like C6, it hangs the same way(usually *garbage pixels on screen*, but sometimes normal screen hang).

I've had a value for *tRFC* aka *DRAM Ref Cycle Time *of 272 for 3400 Mhz DRAM speed which means 160ns(160ns*3400Mhz/2000=272, or rather 272*2000/3400=160ns ) (using Samsung B-die(see my signature for rig specs) and this is supposedly minimum it can do and seems to be true from my prev. experience at diff. freq. when I tried 256(which was 160ns) and worked but 254 failed in the same garbage pixels way, but at POST time) and it seemed stable (superficially tested 4 passes of test 6 of memtest86) since enabling CPU C-States in BIOS. But when it came to booting into Windows 7 it just froze with garbage screen of pixels, which obviously means it's tRFC being too low, or so it seems to be the case from my prev. limited experience.
I've had to increase tRFC to 340 (aka 200ns) for it to not hang and just boot normally into Windows. TM5 extreme1 seems to pass so far(22mins), but there's still 2+ hours to go.

Last non-working was tRFC=306 (180ns) which I've tried, then jumped straight to 340 which worked.

For completion here are my current (tRFC=340) settings.




























































































and the BIOS .txt settings:


Code:


[2020/11/05 12:49:08]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:100]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3400MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [171.00]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [45.00]
Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.3794]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [-]
- CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
PCH Core Voltage [1.00000]
CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [0.50000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [0.50000]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [15]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [340]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [4]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [6]
DRAM Write Latency [13]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [10]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [7]
tWRRD_dr [6]
tWRRD_dd [6]
TWRPRE [27]
TRDPRE [6]
tREFIX9 [64]
OREF_RI [64]
MRC Fast Boot [Enabled]
DRAM CLK Period [20]
Memory Scrambler [Disabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [User Profile]
DLLBwEn [4]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [56]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [56]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [56]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [56]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [13]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [60 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [60 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT_READ_DURATION [2]
ODT_READ_DELAY [0]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [1]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [0]
Data Rising Slope [7]
Data Rising Slope Offset [1]
Cmd Rising Slope [7]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [1]
Ctl Rising Slope [7]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [1]
Clk Rising Slope [3]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [1]
Data Falling Slope [7]
Data Falling Slope Offset [1]
Cmd Falling Slope [7]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [1]
Ctl Falling Slope [7]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [1]
Clk Falling Slope [3]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [1]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed CPU VRM Switching Frequency(KHz) [250]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed CPU Graphics Switching Frequency(KHz) [250]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [150]
Package Power Time Window [2]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [154]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Enabled]
Native ASPM [Enabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Enabled]
ASPM [L0sL1]
L1 Substates [L1.1 & L1.2]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [L1]
PEG - ASPM [ASPM L0sL1]
ASPM L0s [Both Root and Endpoint Ports]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [3 sec]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Enabled]
Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
CPU C3 Report [Enabled]
CPU C6 Report [Enabled]
CPU C7 Report [CPU C7s]
CPU C8 Report [Enabled]
Package C State Limit [Cpu Default]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
VT-d [Enabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Gen3]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic Storage Device 0.00 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [50]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Lower Temperature [36]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [44]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [35]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [55]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [46]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [43]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [55]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [23oct3600]
Save to Profile [1]


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> I use 80-40-40 for 4400C17-17-17-36 @ 1.45v 1.40 SA 1.35 IO with 2x16 dual rank.


Can you Show me where to find them on the z490 ace Bios?
Maybe im blind.
Just post me a shot from Bios with your 80-40-40.
Thanks.

Edit: found it, its rtt Park and rtt Nom values.
Edit2: setting 80/0/48 (80/48/0 on Asus boards) fixed my crashes in unigine superposition. 
I could even lower the voltages.


----------



## Imprezzion

Hmm maybe I should try 80-0-48 then lol. I merely use this because it simply worked and never tweaked it again. Like, I tried some random example values from a guide and this worked without crashes / errors and I never touched it again lol.


----------



## itssladenlol

If i get errors in gsat saying gsat Hardware incident and it Shows thread 7 does that mean its cpu related?
Cause gsat shows "24"Hardware incidents(Hardware error, miscompare on cpu)for thread 7 but errors shows "0"


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Hmm maybe I should try 80-0-48 then lol. I merely use this because it simply worked and never tweaked it again. Like, I tried some random example values from a guide and this worked without crashes / errors and I never touched it again lol.


I found Best is 80-40-34 (80-34-40 on msi) and second Best following 80-48-34 (80-34-48) After testing all variables.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> I found 80-40-34 (80-34-40 on msi) to be the best now After testing all variables.


Off topic but can you set a dynamic or min/max cache ratio in stead of just a fixed numerical ratio or auto on MSI? Someone mentioned in a different topic that I should be able to but I don't see how and there is no option on my BIOS to set anything else for cache then Auto or a fixed ratio.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Off topic but can you set a dynamic or min/max cache ratio in stead of just a fixed numerical ratio or auto on MSI? Someone mentioned in a different topic that I should be able to but I don't see how and there is no option on my BIOS to set anything else for cache then Auto or a fixed ratio.


Ill Check in a second, gsat running atm. 

What im missing in msi Bios is an Option to disable sata Ports, You seen some options like that? 
I have Several drives with Windows 7 and 10 and I would like to disable the drives im currently Not using. 
On Asus that was np but on msi i searched everything.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Off topic but can you set a dynamic or min/max cache ratio in stead of just a fixed numerical ratio or auto on MSI? Someone mentioned in a different topic that I should be able to but I don't see how and there is no option on my BIOS to set anything else for cache then Auto or a fixed ratio.


Only Number or auto.


----------



## itssladenlol

Just found Out 4500 c18 is more stable than 4400 c18 lol.
4400 is using 1,33 multiplier while 4500 uses 1,00 making it more stable for me. 
Got gsat running Fingers crossed.


----------



## SunnyStefan

somnion said:


> You’d think the configurator and the board both being Asrock they’d use the same terminology. It’s 2x16 B-Die. I don’t have any values to share it’s all on auto. It has an optimisation setting that lets you pick between loosest normal and tightest.


Yeah the differing terminology used for Asrock settings in BIOS and Timing Configurator is very obnoxious. I've illustrated how some of the BIOS settings map to Timing Configurator in my image below.

Up until recently I was using an Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX motherboard with a 2x16 B-Die configuration, so it was pretty similar to your current setup. I was able to set *RTL (CH A/B)* & *IOL (CH A/B)* values manually, but I've heard of picky motherboards only tolerating AUTO.

*RTL Init* can be adjusted to tighten *RTL CHA/B* values. I had inconsistent results when manually setting this, I ended up using AUTO. 

*IOL Init* is similar to *RTL Init *as far as I know*,* but I don't see it mentioned as often.

I'm not familiar with *RFR Delay*, I think most people set it to AUTO.


----------



## munternet

Anyone tried these F4-3800C14D-16GTZN or these

F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB

Which would be better?


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> Anyone tried these F4-3800C14D-16GTZN or these
> 
> F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB
> 
> Which would be better?


Its 
3800 c14-16-16-36 1,5V
Vs
3600 c14-15-15-35 1,45V

They are not good in my opinion. 
3200 c14-14-14-34 Comes with 1,35V, way more headroom, while those other two are probably trash bin.


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Anyone tried these F4-3800C14D-16GTZN or these
> 
> F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB
> 
> Which would be better?


What about : F4-3600C15D-16GTZ ?








F4-3600C15D-16GTZ-(EOL) - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z DDR4-3600 CL15-15-15-35 1.35V 16GB (2x8GB) Building on the strong success of G.SKILL Trident series, Trident Z series represents one of the world’s highest performance DDR4 DRAM memory designed for overclocking enthusiasts and extreme gamers.




www.gskill.com


----------



## TheBoom

Does anyone know how I can check the possible cause of the error in TM5?

I got 1 error in test 12 anta extreme cfg after 1 hour and 5 minutes or so.


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> Does anyone know how I can check the possible cause of the error in TM5?
> 
> I got 1 error in test 12 anta extreme cfg after 1 hour and 5 minutes or so.


Too low voltages. Either VDIMM, IO or SA probably.


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> Too low voltages. Either VDIMM, IO or SA probably.


Oh ok. Thanks. I thought it was trefi too high.Vdimm all the way to 1.5v didn’t make a diff so I guess it must be IO or SA.


----------



## itssladenlol

Need some help here. 
Gsat ran 3hrs error free with 4500 c18 but hci threw 1 error After 1500%, but temps stayed on point whole time, no fluctuations. 
1,46v 1,33Sa 1,33io.
How can i get this Late in hci an error that is not temp related?


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> How can i get this Late in hci an error that is not temp related?


Try 1.48 VDIMM. You may need to go down to 4400 Mhz.


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Try 1.48 VDIMM. You may need to go down to 4400 Mhz.


Error was too tight RTL IOL. 
Fixed now.


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> Error was too tight RTL IOL.
> Fixed now.


I have RTL at 66/67 with my 4500C18 setting. You?


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> I have RTL at 66/67 with my 4500C18 setting. You?


66/67 no Boot, 67/68 unstable, now running 69/70 7/7/7/7 and latency is Same As 67/68.
67500/69500/66000 37ns.
18/19/19/39 for low voltage.
1,29sa 1,29 io 1,46v(1,45 Put in BIOS)

I even tested this stuff with 4400.
4400 66/67 7/7/7/7 insta Crash gsat
4400 67/68 7/7/7/7 gsat stable 4 hours

Aida read write copy and ns identical.

Thats why im running 69/70 now on 4500 cause it gives Same speed and latency as 67/68 and 68/69 as long as you train 7/7/7/7

Just need to hit them lucky 7's 😁


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> 67500/69500/66000 37ns.


Similar speeds as me, but higher copy. Look at my results here. I wonder why.
My sticks need 1.54v for this speed, so yours are better.

I didn't think IOL was as important as RTL. Have mine at 8. Can you post a screen of your settings?


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Similar speeds as me, but higher copy. Look at my results here. I wonder why.
> My sticks need 1.54v for this speed, so yours are better.
> 
> I didn't think IOL was as important as RTL. Have mine at 8. Can you post a screen of your settings?


Cant Screenshot anything now cause hci is running, this is the Best i can Do.























Setting skews helped alot with voltage.
Running 80-40-34(80-34-40 on msi boards)

Do You have a working Version of asrock timing configurator for me? 
Cause some settings in MemTweakIt and asrock timing configurator are turned arround. 
Would make it easier for you to compare.


----------



## TheBoom

itssladenlol said:


> Error was too tight RTL IOL.
> Fixed now.


Beginning to think mine might have the same issue. Error after 1-1.5hrs with temps stable. I remember the sticks being stable overnight before I messed with rtls/iols.


----------



## SunnyStefan

itssladenlol said:


> View attachment 2464568


Excuse me sir but I'm going to need to you explain this "Crouchjump+ADS" file .


----------



## itssladenlol

SunnyStefan said:


> Excuse me sir but I'm going to need to you explain this "Crouchjump+ADS" file .


Autohotkey File for Fallout 4, cause Fallout Has no toggle to zoom, only hold. 
So i Made a Script to give me toggle zoom with 1 click and Same Script also Contains some Lines for 1 Button crouch jump.


----------



## itssladenlol

TheBoom said:


> Beginning to think mine might have the same issue. Error after 1-1.5hrs with temps stable. I remember the sticks being stable overnight before I messed with rtls/iols.


RTLs iols Made me go from insta Crash in 5sec to gsat stable 4+hrs with exact Same settings. 
Its unreal.


----------



## SunnyStefan

itssladenlol said:


> Autohotkey File for Fallout 4, cause Fallout Has no toggle to zoom, only hold.
> So i Made a Script to give me toggle zoom with 1 click and Same Script also Contains some Lines for 1 Button crouch jump.


Alright that's perfectly reasonable, I'll put my pitchfork away. I was afraid you might be some kind of bunny hop spamming Call of Duty / Fortnite player with questionable morals, sorry for assuming the worst!


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> What about : F4-3600C15D-16GTZ ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-3600C15D-16GTZ-(EOL) - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z DDR4-3600 CL15-15-15-35 1.35V 16GB (2x8GB) Building on the strong success of G.SKILL Trident series, Trident Z series represents one of the world’s highest performance DDR4 DRAM memory designed for overclocking enthusiasts and extreme gamers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


Optimized for Z170
I want some new stuff


----------



## itssladenlol

So while rtls and iols helped with stability, i found Out tWRWR_sg @7 was my Problem. 
Now with tWRWR_sg @8 i can run gsat with even 1,4v lol. 
Sometimes its one little thing that messes with stability.


----------



## 638220

[email protected] 8C/16T - [email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T - HCImemtestpro - 400%


----------



## ViTosS

blacknbigger212 said:


> [email protected] 8C/16T - [email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T - HCImemtestpro - 400%
> View attachment 2464589
> 
> View attachment 2464590
> 
> View attachment 2464591


Really impressive for that board and 4x8GB


----------



## 638220

ViTosS said:


> Really impressive for that board and 4x8GB


Thank you for the positive vibes my friend . Still working some kinks out of it. Apparently it only likes to train properly with the primaries/secondaries set in the bios with the tertaries set in the bios on auto. When I validated in hci/occt I had set the tertiaries with memtweak it while in windows. Performance in games seems a little shoddy, could be because of tertiaries being set while in windows. Still some kinks to work out apparently. maybe i'll try training tertiaries in the bios with more vcore or something, maybe it will help, maybe it won't. still some things to mess around with though but its a work in progress.


----------



## 638220

So i retrained it with tertiaries on auto, oddly enough its performing better in games despite having lower aida64 performance than tuned tertiaries. I don't understand this stuff lol


----------



## TheBoom

itssladenlol said:


> So while rtls and iols helped with stability, i found Out tWRWR_sg @7 was my Problem.
> Now with tWRWR_sg @8 i can run gsat with even 1,4v lol.
> Sometimes its one little thing that messes with stability.


Yep mine won’t post at twrwr below 7. 7 boots into windows but it might be the cause of the error after 1 hour.

Anyway it doesn’t matter, I’m redoing the entire mem oc one group at a time. Too many variables to test at one go.

Btw I’ve seen differing skew control settings, how do you guys test to see what works?


----------



## munternet

TheBoom said:


> Yep mine won’t post at twrwr below 7. 7 boots into windows but it might be the cause of the error after 1 hour.
> 
> Anyway it doesn’t matter, I’m redoing the entire mem oc one group at a time. Too many variables to test at one go.
> 
> Btw I’ve seen differing skew control settings, how do you guys test to see what works?


I did a few tests the other day and shared the results








The Importance of Skew Control for Memory Overclocking


As the title suggests skew control seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little I spent the day testing different settings to see just how much difference the skew settings make and it seems it won't even boot with many of them I can see now that it would be easy to...




www.overclock.net


----------



## TheBoom

munternet said:


> I did a few tests the other day and shared the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Importance of Skew Control for Memory Overclocking
> 
> 
> As the title suggests skew control seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little I spent the day testing different settings to see just how much difference the skew settings make and it seems it won't even boot with many of them I can see now that it would be easy to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Yep I did see your thread. Thanks for sharing, but it seems using those values didn’t do anything for me. I still have to use the same voltages and timings. Maybe my board is doing it the same anyway?

Rev e micron 16gbx2 dual rank kits, not sure if and how that affects the best skew settings.


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> Optimized for Z170
> I want some new stuff


pcb and ic is way newer than the first 3600c15 sticks that came a few years ago. So it's new like other new b-die kits


----------



## SunnyStefan

munternet said:


> I did a few tests the other day and shared the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Importance of Skew Control for Memory Overclocking
> 
> 
> As the title suggests skew control seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little I spent the day testing different settings to see just how much difference the skew settings make and it seems it won't even boot with many of them I can see now that it would be easy to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Hey I found this testing very helpful, thanks for this.
I had my skew settings at 80 / 48 / 40 for WR / PARK / NOM, this worked well up until 4300mhz C16 at which point I hit a wall.
With my old skew values I would fail TM5 (anta extreme preset) during the first pass around 30-45 minutes when testing 4400mhz C16.
After reading your thread I tried the settings 80 / 48 / 0 instead, changing *only this* allowed me to pass all 3 cycles of TM5 without any errors.
I'm still not _quite _stable with the settings in the picture below, but I'm so much closer thanks to you.


----------



## Betroz

SunnyStefan said:


> I'm still not _quite _stable with the settings in the picture below, but I'm so much closer thanks to you.


I think I know why. tWR 10 is a little bit low for 4400 with 2x16, and tRFC 296 aswell. Try to set those at 12 and 350. (yes you will loose some performance)


----------



## acoustic

What are the standard programs for memory stability that can be run in Windows? I used HCI Memtest last time .. I'm going to try my hand at getting another stable mem OC. I went back to XMP after my G.Skill 3200CL15 32GB(16x2) nuked an entire windows install. I had tested it HCI Memtest 500% pass no errors, ran it for a month, and I should have kept checking for WIndows errors, but alas .. eventually corrupted the install and pop went the weasel. After losing all that data .. yeah, was not pleased.

I'm bored and going for it again though. Last time I was running this set at 3800 15-15-15-28 @ 1.5v / 1.15v VCCSA / IO on my 9900K + EVGA Z390 DARK. I'm going to try similar settings at 3600 @ 1.45v / 1.19v VCCSA / IO .. but anything other than HCI for mem stability? I was dumbfounded when the system had no problems and ran great, and then one day went up in flames lol.


----------



## ViTosS

acoustic said:


> What are the standard programs for memory stability that can be run in Windows? I used HCI Memtest last time .. I'm going to try my hand at getting another stable mem OC. I went back to XMP after my G.Skill 3200CL15 32GB(16x2) nuked an entire windows install. I had tested it HCI Memtest 500% pass no errors, ran it for a month, and I should have kept checking for WIndows errors, but alas .. eventually corrupted the install and pop went the weasel. After losing all that data .. yeah, was not pleased.
> 
> I'm bored and going for it again though. Last time I was running this set at 3800 15-15-15-28 @ 1.5v / 1.15v VCCSA / IO on my 9900K + EVGA Z390 DARK. I'm going to try similar settings at 3600 @ 1.45v / 1.19v VCCSA / IO .. but anything other than HCI for mem stability? I was dumbfounded when the system had no problems and ran great, and then one day went up in flames lol.


RAMTest Karhu, TM5 (TestMem5) with Anta Extreme preset, GSAT and HCI MemTestPro, I use all 4 for stability check, some of them you have to pay for.


----------



## acoustic

ViTosS said:


> RAMTest Karhu, TM5 (TestMem5) with Anta Extreme preset, GSAT and HCI MemTestPro, I use all 4 for stability check, some of them you have to pay for.


Awesome; quick google pulled up the OCN thread for TM5 with a bunch of presets in a zip file. Thanks!!


----------



## SoldierRBT

Dual ranks love voltage. 4400 16-17-17-32 1.55v IO/SA 1.30v


----------



## Betroz

SoldierRBT said:


> 4400 16-17-17-32 1.55v IO/SA 1.30v


.....and a SP80+ CPU...?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Betroz said:


> .....and a SP80+ CPU...?


It's a SP89 chip. Scales very good with temperature. Waiting for the delidding kit for 5.3/5.0GHz daily


----------



## itssladenlol

Ok im done with msi...
After reading About someone throwing away their msi board cause the bios is bugged and gets unstable with settings that where stable for weeks, i decided to test it.
4400 c18 18 18 38 1,5vdimm 1,35 Sa 1,35 io
Locked rtls iols etc nothing on Auto.
Karhu 20000% zero errors, hci 4000% zero errors, gsat 4 hours no errors , Anta 777 extreme 6 cycles zero errors.
So one would think its stable.
One reboot later, Anta777 throws errors within seconds... 
Im really mad right now, this Bios is Coded poorly and the other guy was right.









Im completely lost, Any ideas?


----------



## Gen.

Hello everyone, haven't seen each other for a long time. I managed to squeeze out like this. 4533 18-18 1.45V was also stable, 4666 gave errors.
Settings


----------



## KedarWolf

itssladenlol said:


> Ok im done with msi...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> After reading About someone throwing away their msi board cause the bios is bugged and gets unstable with settings that where stable for weeks, i decided to test it.
> 4400 c18 18 18 38 1,5vdimm 1,35 Sa 1,35 io
> Locked rtls iols etc nothing on Auto.
> Karhu 20000% zero errors, hci 4000% zero errors, gsat 4 hours no errors , Anta 777 extreme 6 cycles zero errors.
> So one would think its stable.
> One reboot later, Anta777 throws errors within seconds...
> Im really mad right now, this Bios is Coded poorly and the other guy was right.
> View attachment 2464765
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im completely lost, Any ideas?


When you get it stable, reboot immediately into the BIOS and turn off Memory Training or DRAM Training, whatever it is in your BIOS.

Memory training changes some hidden and third timings etc. on each boot and not training your memory every boot might help.

Edit: Also manually set every timing you can instead of on Auto for the same reason.


----------



## Imprezzion

KedarWolf said:


> When you get it stable, reboot immediately into the BIOS and turn off Memory Training or DRAM Training, whatever it is in your BIOS.
> 
> Memory training changes some hidden and third timings etc. on each boot and not training your memory every boot might help.
> 
> Edit: Also manually set every timing you can instead of on Auto for the same reason.


I had to do this on the Z390 Ace and now Z490 Ace as well. I gotta be honest, every manufacturer has their flaws, no board or BIOS is perfect. MSI has 2 major flaws. The memory training being wonky sometimes and the total inability to set the cache frequency as a offset or as a min/max value which means a overclocked cache will not downclock in idle with EIST enabled thus causing crashes at idle. This means i have to either run Auto cache and be limited to 4.3Ghz cache or run 5Ghz cache without EIST and running full clocks and voltages in idle.

I am considering going to a Ryzen 5900/5950 just for the heck of it and not going MSI this time.

EDIT: prices and availability are horrible for AMD right now lol. €900+ for a 5950x and no stock anywhere.

Different idea, what other Z490 board that isn't MSI can handle a 10900KF @ 5.1 1.290v or 5.2 @ 1.364v and 2x16GB B-Die at 4200C16/4400C17 and doesn't cost €450 like an Apex would. I means Asus or whoever else must have some boards in the like 200-350 range that are sort of capable right? Like a Strix E or F or asrock pg velocita or whatever..?


----------



## YaqY

KedarWolf said:


> When you get it stable, reboot immediately into the BIOS and turn off Memory Training or DRAM Training, whatever it is in your BIOS.
> 
> Memory training changes some hidden and third timings etc. on each boot and not training your memory every boot might help.
> 
> Edit: Also manually set every timing you can instead of on Auto for the same reason.


This completely kills the point of memory overclocking. You have to reboot between timing changes. It should not be up to reboot luck for the same settings to repost and train the similar way, the bios should be coded appropriately. This is also timings that we cant see. I get the same issue with rtls/iols locked and all mains/subs/terts. Had the same issue with my Z490 Unify and i recommend staying far away from Msi Z490.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> I had to do this on the Z390 Ace and now Z490 Ace as well. I gotta be honest, every manufacturer has their flaws, no board or BIOS is perfect. MSI has 2 major flaws. The memory training being wonky sometimes and the total inability to set the cache frequency as a offset or as a min/max value which means a overclocked cache will not downclock in idle with EIST enabled thus causing crashes at idle. This means i have to either run Auto cache and be limited to 4.3Ghz cache or run 5Ghz cache without EIST and running full clocks and voltages in idle.
> 
> I am considering going to a Ryzen 5900/5950 just for the heck of it and not going MSI this time.
> 
> EDIT: prices and availability are horrible for AMD right now lol. €900+ for a 5950x and no stock anywhere.
> 
> Different idea, what other Z490 board that isn't MSI can handle a 10900KF @ 5.1 1.290v or 5.2 @ 1.364v and 2x16GB B-Die at 4200C16/4400C17 and doesn't cost €450 like an Apex would. I means Asus or whoever else must have some boards in the like 200-350 range that are sort of capable right? Like a Strix E or F or asrock pg velocita or whatever..?


I have heard great results from the Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite. The board has a very strong memory layout (See HiCookie videos on this) and also supports VRM info in Hwinfo which is a bonus.


----------



## munternet

YaqY said:


> I have heard great results from the Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite. The board has a very strong memory layout (See HiCookie videos on this) and also supports VRM info in Hwinfo which is a bonus.


I thought gigabyte lacked some controls in the RTL department or something?



itssladenlol said:


> Ok im done with msi...
> After reading About someone throwing away their msi board cause the bios is bugged and gets unstable with settings that where stable for weeks, i decided to test it.
> 4400 c18 18 18 38 1,5vdimm 1,35 Sa 1,35 io
> Locked rtls iols etc nothing on Auto.
> Karhu 20000% zero errors, hci 4000% zero errors, gsat 4 hours no errors , Anta 777 extreme 6 cycles zero errors.
> So one would think its stable.
> One reboot later, Anta777 throws errors within seconds...
> Im really mad right now, this Bios is Coded poorly and the other guy was right.
> View attachment 2464765
> 
> 
> Im completely lost, Any ideas?


Damn, that must really rip your undies


----------



## gilor8080

ViTosS said:


> RAMTest Karhu, TM5 (TestMem5) with Anta Extreme preset, GSAT and HCI MemTestPro, I use all 4 for stability check, some of them you have to pay for.


If i pass TM5 with Anta Extreme is stability? 
thank.


----------



## munternet

gilor8080 said:


> If i pass TM5 with Anta Extreme is stability?
> thank.


At least use GSAT also
There is a link to installing it in windows in my signature


----------



## gilor8080

munternet said:


> At least use GSAT also
> There is a link to installing it in windows in my signature


thank man, i will do it right now, 
2 qustions♥ 
How long to do the TEST?
And do you recommend about z490 aorus master or asus apex? only RAM OC


----------



## munternet

gilor8080 said:


> thank man, i will do it right now,
> 2 qustions♥
> How long to do the TEST?
> And do you recommend about z490 aorus master or asus apex? only RAM OC


I have the Apex XII which is fairly easy for ram overclocking. Some people like the 2 DIMM MSI boards but I like the Asus BIOS
The Apex XII is a solid choice but is a little expensive

I run 2 hours using 'stressapptest -W -M 30000 -s 7200 --pause_delay 14400' but errors can occur quickly, even if you are stable with TM5


----------



## YaqY

munternet said:


> I thought gigabyte lacked some controls in the RTL department or something?
> 
> 
> Damn, that must really rip your undies


You can manually set rtls/iols on z490 gigabyte.


----------



## TheBoom

Imprezzion said:


> I had to do this on the Z390 Ace and now Z490 Ace as well. I gotta be honest, every manufacturer has their flaws, no board or BIOS is perfect. MSI has 2 major flaws. The memory training being wonky sometimes and the total inability to set the cache frequency as a offset or as a min/max value which means a overclocked cache will not downclock in idle with EIST enabled thus causing crashes at idle. This means i have to either run Auto cache and be limited to 4.3Ghz cache or run 5Ghz cache without EIST and running full clocks and voltages in idle.
> 
> I am considering going to a Ryzen 5900/5950 just for the heck of it and not going MSI this time.
> 
> EDIT: prices and availability are horrible for AMD right now lol. €900+ for a 5950x and no stock anywhere.
> 
> Different idea, what other Z490 board that isn't MSI can handle a 10900KF @ 5.1 1.290v or 5.2 @ 1.364v and 2x16GB B-Die at 4200C16/4400C17 and doesn't cost €450 like an Apex would. I means Asus or whoever else must have some boards in the like 200-350 range that are sort of capable right? Like a Strix E or F or asrock pg velocita or whatever..?


Yeah I’ve actively avoided MSI for the past 7 years. Every board and gpu I had were rmaed at least twice even on stock settings within a year.

I’d say get the strix e if you were going with the 10900k and 4200 on memory. Or aorus elite seems pretty solid as well.


----------



## itssladenlol

KedarWolf said:


> When you get it stable, reboot immediately into the BIOS and turn off Memory Training or DRAM Training, whatever it is in your BIOS.
> 
> Memory training changes some hidden and third timings etc. on each boot and not training your memory every boot might help.
> 
> Edit: Also manually set every timing you can instead of on Auto for the same reason.


I already disable memory Training After i Set RTL IOL.
I Disabled Training and got 20000% Karhu and 4000 hci error free.
Then one reboot and errors within seconds, Training was Disabled the whole time.

Gonna test 4200 and 4000 now and if it errors also im done with it. 
Changed from Maximus XII hero to msi ace because Asus Has crap Fan control...


----------



## JoeRambo

YaqY said:


> I have heard great results from the Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite. The board has a very strong memory layout (See HiCookie videos on this) and also supports VRM info in Hwinfo which is a bonus.


Just a quick tip for fellow MSI Z490 owners -> latest 6.34 version of HWInfo also started supporting VRM info. VR VOUT is available, VR VIN needs *10 multiplier to show the real 12V input, currents and powers are also shown.


----------



## Imprezzion

TheBoom said:


> Yeah I’ve actively avoided MSI for the past 7 years. Every board and gpu I had were rmaed at least twice even on stock settings within a year.
> 
> I’d say get the strix e if you were going with the 10900k and 4200 on memory. Or aorus elite seems pretty solid as well.


I had very good experiences with MSI GPU's and the boards aren't bad, I mean I'm not ripping on MSI at all, the Z170 M7 was a monster, the Z390 Ace and Z490 line up aren't "bad" especially for their price but they have some annoying downsides. 

Gigabyte.. I can never get used to their terrible BIOS layout and RGB software which is a disaster. 

I wouldn't mind paying for an Apex if I build this system now but I don't wanna spend 450+ on a board for a dying socket that I already have a board for you know what I mean? The price isn't worth the benefits for me as the Ace does run fine.

I might get the Strix-E. It has a solid VRM according to the VRM spec sheets that float around on google docs and such.

Does ASUS BIOS allow for offset or min/max cache clocks that actually work with EIST downclock in idle?


----------



## KedarWolf

Meant that for the AMD thread. Deleted.


----------



## Betroz

KedarWolf said:


> Old memory testing program, still really good. HCI MemTest Pro.


Or just buy version 7 for 5 dollars...


----------



## KedarWolf

Betroz said:


> Or just buy version 7 for 5 dollars...


Even version 7 doesn't allocate each instance to a single separate thread. If you open task manager and go to details of an instance, then right-click and check "Set affinity' you'll see that. The script does however.

Edit: When I get home from work in 8 hours, I'll post screenshots of HCI Set affinity showing the difference.


----------



## mouacyk

Definitely looks stable. 10,000% is the standard for 16GB so 20,000% should be good enough for 32GB then? This dang board doesn't have any RTL/IO tweaks.

@KedarWolf Are you sure, even if you run version 7 as admin? I've noticed running as a normal user creates a random number of threads -- sometimes 24 other times 36. However, when running as admin it consistently creates 16 threads for my CPU (or units of RAM). Of course, this still doesn't mean it's assigning 1-thread per unit, so let's see the screenshots.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I had to do this on the Z390 Ace and now Z490 Ace as well. I gotta be honest, every manufacturer has their flaws, no board or BIOS is perfect. MSI has 2 major flaws. The memory training being wonky sometimes and the total inability to set the cache frequency as a offset or as a min/max value which means a overclocked cache will not downclock in idle with EIST enabled thus causing crashes at idle. This means i have to either run Auto cache and be limited to 4.3Ghz cache or run 5Ghz cache without EIST and running full clocks and voltages in idle.
> 
> I am considering going to a Ryzen 5900/5950 just for the heck of it and not going MSI this time.
> 
> EDIT: prices and availability are horrible for AMD right now lol. €900+ for a 5950x and no stock anywhere.
> 
> Different idea, what other Z490 board that isn't MSI can handle a 10900KF @ 5.1 1.290v or 5.2 @ 1.364v and 2x16GB B-Die at 4200C16/4400C17 and doesn't cost €450 like an Apex would. I means Asus or whoever else must have some boards in the like 200-350 range that are sort of capable right? Like a Strix E or F or asrock pg velocita or whatever..?


MSI was bugged with their X570 BIOS. If you use 5000 chips the fclk cant go above 2000. They are working to solve this.

If you don't mind itx you can give z490i strix a try.

I personally like that B550 Unify-X.


----------



## munternet

KedarWolf said:


> Even version 7 doesn't allocate each instance to a single separate thread. If you open task manager and go to details of an instance, then right-click and check "Set affinity' you'll see that. The script does however.
> 
> Edit: When I get home from work in 8 hours, I'll post screenshots of HCI Set affinity showing the difference.


Does memtesthelper2 also not do that?


----------



## KedarWolf

munternet said:


> Does memtesthelper2 also not do that?


No, you guys don't understand, they all start 16 instances (threads) or whatever you need, that is not the problem. The issue is they don't allocate each instance to it's own logical CPU core, the script does that. So like first HCI only uses core 1, second only uses core 2, third only uses core 3, etc. With running them through HCI or MemTest Helper, each running HCI instance tests all 32 cores at once. The script does what I said. I'll show you when I get home in three hours.

It's better if each running HCI tests it's own logical core.


----------



## ViTosS

Hello guys, I need some help here, I'm tweaking my new set of RAM ([email protected]), the thing is that I am atm *[email protected] 1.45v DRAM 1.175/1.200v IO/SA*, I tried tight subtimings along with Mode 2 in BIOS and I can't find which setting is making me unstable (didn't try many, just increased *tWRWR_sg* from *7* to *8* without success), so I went back to everything at *AUTO* and I passed TM5 without problems, so I need to track down which of these I changed that are making me unstable:

*tWR* from *25* to *16
tRFC* from *735* to *360
tFAW* from *45* to *16
tRRD_L* from *9* to *6
tRRD_S* from *9* to *4
tREFI* from *16837* to *65534
tRDWR_sg* and *tRDWR_dg* from *16* to *12
tWRRD_sg* from *37* to *28
tWRRD_dg* from *28* to *23*









Here is what I tried without success:

Raised DRAM from 1.45v to 1.46v at the same IO/SA
Kept DRAM at 1.45v and raised IO/SA to 1.225v/1.250v
Kept DRAM at 1.45v and raised IO/SA to 1.200v/1.2250v
Tried to keep temps lower during test (below 45C instead of 48C)

The only thing I didn't try was to change DRAM and IO/SA at the same time, like 1.46v+ and 1.225v/1.250v+ for example.

So which one of the settings above should I change or do you recommend to start one by one and stress after every change? (This would require a lot of patience lol)

Thanks!


----------



## SunnyStefan

KedarWolf said:


> It's better if each running HCI tests it's own logical core.


Why is this better? I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm interested in your reasoning / evidence. There's a lot of misinformation out there regarding memory overclocking and stress testing in general, and all too often it's blindly trusted and repeatedly stated on forums as fact when it's nothing of the sort.


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> Hello guys, I need some help here, I'm tweaking my new set of RAM ([email protected]), the thing is that I am atm *[email protected] 1.45v DRAM 1.175/1.200v IO/SA*, I tried tight subtimings along with Mode 2 in BIOS and I can't find which setting is making me unstable (didn't try many, just increased *tWRWR_sg* from *7* to *8* without success), so I went back to everything at *AUTO* and I passed TM5 without problems, so I need to track down which of these I changed that are making me unstable:
> 
> *tWR* from *25* to *16
> tRFC* from *735* to *360
> tFAW* from *45* to *16
> tRRD_L* from *9* to *6
> tRRD_S* from *9* to *4
> tREFI* from *16837* to *65534
> tRDWR_sg* and *tRDWR_dg* from *16* to *12
> tWRRD_sg* from *37* to *28
> tWRRD_dg* from *28* to *23*
> View attachment 2464890
> 
> 
> Here is what I tried without success:
> 
> Raised DRAM from 1.45v to 1.46v at the same IO/SA
> Kept DRAM at 1.45v and raised IO/SA to 1.225v/1.250v
> Kept DRAM at 1.45v and raised IO/SA to 1.200v/1.2250v
> Tried to keep temps lower during test (below 45C instead of 48C)
> 
> The only thing I didn't try was to change DRAM and IO/SA at the same time, like 1.46v+ and 1.225v/1.250v+ for example.
> 
> So which one of the settings above should I change or do you recommend to start one by one and stress after every change? (This would require a lot of patience lol)
> 
> Thanks!


TRRD_L and S. Those don't do 6/4 on my setup either. I'm at 8/6 with 24 tFAW that works fine.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> TRRD_L and S. Those don't do 6/4 on my setup either. I'm at 8/6 with 24 tFAW that works fine.


Ok thank you, I am testing atm Mode 2 everything on AUTO except tREFI which is 65534, let's see how it goes, latency at 35ns with this, pretty nice


----------



## hackasynthetic

itssladenlol said:


> Ok im done with msi...
> After reading About someone throwing away their msi board cause the bios is bugged and gets unstable with settings that where stable for weeks, i decided to test it.
> 4400 c18 18 18 38 1,5vdimm 1,35 Sa 1,35 io
> Locked rtls iols etc nothing on Auto.
> Karhu 20000% zero errors, hci 4000% zero errors, gsat 4 hours no errors , Anta 777 extreme 6 cycles zero errors.
> So one would think its stable.
> One reboot later, Anta777 throws errors within seconds...
> Im really mad right now, this Bios is Coded poorly and the other guy was right.
> View attachment 2464765
> 
> 
> Im completely lost, Any ideas?



What I would try(but hey that's just me) is disabling Memory Scrambler just so you could get the errors sooner during testing, then running memtest86 test 6 for like 70 passes at least. If it errors, then decrease DRAM Mhz, then recheck. Timings don't really matter, as long as it still trains with them with the lower Mhz, I suppose(I had no problem keeping the timings with lower mhz btw). All I know is that this is how I got my 4 sticks(see sig.) stable, on Asus Prime Z370-A. I thought they were stable at 3600 Mhz, and it was all in the timings and the training, but after cold boot it would err, most of the time, sometimes it would pass 15 passes of test 6 and then err, or like only err on pass 46th, showing me it wasn't really stable even when I thought it was stable(TM5 wouldn't detect this). Some cold boots it would just err in pass 2. What I deduced it's because the Mhz were too high(because it eventually didn't err anymore at 3400Mhz). Timings seemed to have no effect, tho they would prolong the time it would take to get the errors. Also, Memory Scrambler on Enabled would prolong it too, so don't forget to re-enable it when all is done, for extra stability. Heck, if it's stable with it on Disabled, you're god-stable with it on Enabled. I used to get 12 errors when Disabled vs only 2 on Enabled, when it was error-ing before.
Rig in signature.

Anyway, here's my last attempt and declaring it all stable and I'm done wasting time (after at least 1 month - wasn't even online when I begun).
Attached screens and BIOS .txt settings.
I've learned other things(mentioned in prev. posts) like how to know if your tCL is too high by running only test 3 of TM5 anta extreme1 and seeing if it errors or not after at least 1 hour(in my case).

Maybe this is only true for me/myrig, instead of in general. But hey, it's good enough to give you an idea of the possibilities of it.

This will have to be my last post. Thanks all for the help and all and hope you all get your mems stable at high speeds and low latencies. Cheers

Oh one more thing, with these settings, but with Memory Scrambler on Disabled and also the BCLK Spectrum on Disabled, it would give 2 errors in test 6 eventually (after 10+ passes) when setting Slopes to 2/0 and Clk to 2/0, but I didn't bother trying 3/0 which could've been stable, so just using the known stable of 8/1 and 4/1 (see the attached .txt, or maybe I paste it here for search I guess) is good enough, *EDIT*: I mean 7/1 and 3/1 lookslike heh.



Code:


[2020/11/09 11:42:49]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [3]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
1-Core Ratio Limit [47]
2-Core Ratio Limit [47]
3-Core Ratio Limit [47]
4-Core Ratio Limit [47]
5-Core Ratio Limit [47]
6-Core Ratio Limit [47]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [100:100]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3400MHz]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
Power-saving & Performance Mode [Performance mode]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [171.00]
CPU Graphics Current Limit [45.00]
Ring Down Bin [Enabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [8]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [44]
Max. CPU Graphics Ratio [24]
Extreme Over-voltage [Disabled]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.050]
DRAM Voltage [1.3266]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.15000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.15000]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Offset Mode]
- Offset Mode Sign [-]
- CPU Graphics Voltage Offset [0.120]
PCH Core Voltage [1.00000]
CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [0.50000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [0.50000]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [15]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [4]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [340]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [10]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [7]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [3]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [6]
DRAM Write Latency [13]
tRDRD_sg [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [26]
tWRRD_dg [22]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [10]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [7]
tWRRD_dr [4]
tWRRD_dd [4]
TWRPRE [27]
TRDPRE [6]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [64]
MRC Fast Boot [Enabled]
DRAM CLK Period [20]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Training Profile [User Profile]
DLLBwEn [0]
DRAM SPD Write [Disabled]
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [58]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [56]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [56]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [56]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [56]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [14]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [14]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [14]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [13]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [60 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [60 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT_READ_DURATION [2]
ODT_READ_DELAY [0]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [1]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [0]
Data Rising Slope [7]
Data Rising Slope Offset [1]
Cmd Rising Slope [7]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [1]
Ctl Rising Slope [7]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [1]
Clk Rising Slope [3]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [1]
Data Falling Slope [7]
Data Falling Slope Offset [1]
Cmd Falling Slope [7]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [1]
Ctl Falling Slope [7]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [1]
Clk Falling Slope [3]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [1]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 2]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed CPU VRM Switching Frequency(KHz) [250]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
CPU Graphics Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Graphics Current Capability [100%]
CPU Graphics VRM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed CPU Graphics Switching Frequency(KHz) [250]
CPU Graphics Power Phase Control [Standard]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [150]
Package Power Time Window [2]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [154]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Enabled]
Native ASPM [Enabled]
PCH DMI ASPM [Enabled]
ASPM [L0sL1]
L1 Substates [L1.1 & L1.2]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [L1]
PEG - ASPM [ASPM L0sL1]
ASPM L0s [Both Root and Endpoint Ports]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Intel Virtualization Technology [Enabled]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
SW Guard Extensions (SGX) [Software Controlled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [3 sec]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Enabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Enabled]
Enhanced C-states [Enabled]
CPU C3 Report [Enabled]
CPU C6 Report [Enabled]
CPU C7 Report [CPU C7s]
CPU C8 Report [Enabled]
Package C State Limit [Cpu Default]
CFG Lock [Disabled]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Enabled]
VT-d [Enabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Primary Display [CPU Graphics]
iGPU Multi-Monitor [Disabled]
RC6(Render Standby) [Auto]
DVMT Pre-Allocated [64M]
DMI Max Link Speed [Gen3]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
IOAPIC 24-119 Entries [Enabled]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
SATA6G_1(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Charcoal Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Charcoal Black) [Disabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
VccCore Override Enable [Disabled]
VccST Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSA Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR_OC Override Enable [Disabled]
VccSFR Override Enable [Disabled]
VccIO Override Enable [Disabled]
Core PLL Voltage Offset [0]
GT PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Ring PLL Voltage Offset [0]
System Agent PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage Offset [0]
Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Thunderbolt(TM) PCIe Support [Disabled]
Windows 10 Thunderbolt support [Disabled]
Security Device Support [Enable]
SHA-1 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SHA256 PCR Bank [Enabled]
SM3_256 PCR Bank [Disabled]
Pending operation [None]
Platform Hierarchy [Enabled]
Storage Hierarchy [Enabled]
Endorsement Hierarchy [Enabled]
TPM2.0 UEFI Spec Version [TCG_2]
Physical Presence Spec Version [1.3]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By Ring [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Hyper M.2X16 [Disabled]
HD Audio Controller [Enabled]
DVI Port Audio [Disabled]
Depop [Enabled]
M.2_1 Configuration [PCIE Mode]
M.2_2 PCIe Bandwidth Configuration: [X2][X4] [X2 Mode]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Enabled]
When system is in working state [Off]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [On]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel PXE Option ROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch [Auto]
Serial Port 1 [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB Keyboard and Mouse Simulator [Disabled]
Generic STORAGE DEVICE 9404 [Auto]
Generic Storage Device 0.00 [Auto]
USB3G1_1 [Enabled]
USB3G1_2 [Enabled]
USB3G1_3 [Enabled]
USB3G1_4 [Enabled]
USB3G1_5 [Enabled]
USB3G1_6 [Enabled]
USB9 [Enabled]
USB10 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
USB13 [Enabled]
USB14 [Enabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor1  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor2  Temperature [Monitor]
EXT_Sensor3  Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
M.2 Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Extension Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
AIO PUMP Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Graphics Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
PCH Core Voltage [Monitor]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Monitor]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [Monitor]
DRAM Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Standby Voltage [Monitor]
DMI Voltage [Monitor]
Chassis Intrusion Detection Support [Disabled]
CPU Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [50]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [45]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Lower Temperature [36]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [47]
AIO PUMP Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [44]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [35]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
M.2 Fan Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 2 [PCH]
Temperature Source 3 [CPU]
M.2 Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
M.2 Fan Profile [Manual]
M.2 Fan Upper Temperature [55]
M.2 Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [46]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
M.2 Fan Lower Temperature [43]
M.2 Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [Multiple Sources]
Temperature Source 1 [CPU]
Temperature Source 2 [MotherBoard]
Temperature Source 3 [PCH]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [55]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [40]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Allow Fan Stop [Enabled]
Extension Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Extension Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Fast Boot [Disabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [5 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Disabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [EZ Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [Legacy only]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [08nov2020_3400]
Save to Profile [2]


----------



## itssladenlol

So ive tried highest rtls iols and loosest timings possible, one Boot error free, next Boot errors, next Boot error free and so on.
Its Not timings,its Not voltage, its Not temps and its Not rtls iols.
This board cant run anything over 4200 stable.
The Moment i drop to 4200 the errors go away, 20 reboots zero errors.
And I know for a fact that the sticks can easily handle 4400 c16 because i had that running error free on my maximus XII hero.
So, thats it for me msi, Bios is Coded poorly like other people already pointed Out with Same Problems.
Like 300hrs wasted with this msi bullshit... Hunting a ghost lmao.
Its the board.
Bye msi, hello apex.

Edit: just Spoke with Amazon, i can send the board back and get a full refund. 
Now....
Buy apex or sell 10900k and buy 5950x + mainboard


----------



## munternet

The 5950x looks pretty nice
But I'm happy with my 10900k Apex since I already have it


----------



## TheBoom

Imprezzion said:


> I had very good experiences with MSI GPU's and the boards aren't bad, I mean I'm not ripping on MSI at all, the Z170 M7 was a monster, the Z390 Ace and Z490 line up aren't "bad" especially for their price but they have some annoying downsides.
> 
> Gigabyte.. I can never get used to their terrible BIOS layout and RGB software which is a disaster.
> 
> I wouldn't mind paying for an Apex if I build this system now but I don't wanna spend 450+ on a board for a dying socket that I already have a board for you know what I mean? The price isn't worth the benefits for me as the Ace does run fine.
> 
> I might get the Strix-E. It has a solid VRM according to the VRM spec sheets that float around on google docs and such.
> 
> Does ASUS BIOS allow for offset or min/max cache clocks that actually work with EIST downclock in idle?


Yeah it does. You can set min and max cache multis. Not sure about speedstep but it works with speedshift on my system.


----------



## TheBoom

Quick question. For those of you who have 16gb dual rank sticks, are you able to run TRTP at 6? Or is 8 the lowest you can get error free?


----------



## Betroz

TheBoom said:


> Quick question. For those of you who have 16gb dual rank sticks, are you able to run TRTP at 6? Or is 8 the lowest you can get error free?


With my 4500C18 profile I need to have it at 8, but with my other 4300C16 profile, I have it at 6.


----------



## Placekicker19

itssladenlol said:


> So ive tried highest rtls iols and loosest timings possible, one Boot error free, next Boot errors, next Boot error free and so on.
> Its Not timings,its Not voltage, its Not temps and its Not rtls iols.
> This board cant run anything over 4200 stable.
> The Moment i drop to 4200 the errors go away, 20 reboots zero errors.
> And I know for a fact that the sticks can easily handle 4400 c16 because i had that running error free on my maximus XII hero.
> So, thats it for me msi, Bios is Coded poorly like other people already pointed Out with Same Problems.
> Like 300hrs wasted with this msi bullshit... Hunting a ghost lmao.
> Its the board.
> Bye msi, hello apex.
> 
> Edit: just Spoke with Amazon, i can send the board back and get a full refund.
> Now....
> Buy apex or sell 10900k and buy 5950x + mainboard


There's a youtuber who test the max OC on core, memory and cache for 10900k vs 5950x oc/memory with some interesting results when it comes to gaming. The 10900k has beat it in every game tested. The memory and cache over clock help alot on the 10900k. So if you care more about gaming, i see no reason on switching. Plus overclocking intels is much more rewarding. Check out his channel








JackiesBenchmarks


Hello Guys, Welcome to my Channel, i make Benchmark Videos, Gameplays and other Stuff. Please Support my Channel and Subscribe Me. As you can see, a video he...




www.youtube.com


----------



## TheBoom

Betroz said:


> With my 4500C18 profile I need to have it at 8, but with my other 4300C16 profile, I have it at 6.


Yep mine just errored on trtp 8 within 7 mins of memtest. 6 on trtp is stable for an hour now.

Unfortunately trtp has quite an efffect on read bandwidth as well as minimum tras.

With trtp at 8, tras has to be at least tcl + trcd + 4 or I get worse performance and weird audio glitches.


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> There's a youtuber who test the max OC on core, memory and cache for 10900k vs 5950x oc/memory with some interesting results when it comes to gaming. The 10900k has beat it in every game tested. The memory and cache over clock help alot on the 10900k. So if you care more about gaming, i see no reason on switching. Plus overclocking intels is much more rewarding. Check out his channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackiesBenchmarks
> 
> 
> Hello Guys, Welcome to my Channel, i make Benchmark Videos, Gameplays and other Stuff. Please Support my Channel and Subscribe Me. As you can see, a video he...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com


I know the Videos already, but hes running 4500 c17, which i cant on msi. 
Idk if i want to go apex now. 
Maybe ill go x570 dark hero.


----------



## YaqY

itssladenlol said:


> I know the Videos already, but hes running 4500 c17, which i cant on msi.
> Idk if i want to go apex now.
> Maybe ill go x570 dark hero.


I dont think its worth completely changing to ryzen if you have a 10900k. If you can sell the unify and get a nice 2 dimmer and dual rank, should still hold top in many titles.


----------



## itssladenlol

YaqY said:


> I dont think its worth completely changing to ryzen if you have a 10900k. If you can sell the unify and get a nice 2 dimmer and dual rank, should still hold top in many titles.


Z490 dark kingpin looks nice


----------



## BotSkill

itssladenlol said:


> Z490 dark kingpin looks nice


Overpriced too

Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 2 XL folosind Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah well I looked at those boards to possibly replace my Z490 Ace but those prices aren't justifiable for just a better cache OC with downclocking and marginally better RAM OC. My Ace runs fine but it has a few small downsides which don't warrant spending like €400 extra.

That's why I wanted to pick up a Strix-E. It has everything I want from a board but I don't know if a Strix-E can hold up to 4400C17 on DR 16GB modules.. the Ace can quite easily..


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah well I looked at those boards to possibly replace my Z490 Ace but those prices aren't justifiable for just a better cache OC with downclocking and marginally better RAM OC. My Ace runs fine but it has a few small downsides which don't warrant spending like €400 extra.
> 
> That's why I wanted to pick up a Strix-E. It has everything I want from a board but I don't know if a Strix-E can hold up to 4400C17 on DR 16GB modules.. the Ace can quite easily..


Haven't heard the strix boards being great, not sure if the ace gets weird reboot instability for you at 4400 DR. If it doesn't then just keep the board.


----------



## YaqY

itssladenlol said:


> Z490 dark kingpin looks nice


The dark is nice but its way more expensive than the apex and seems to be a lot less user friendly in bios compared to the apex. Ive seen the apex match the dark in pretty much the memory overclocking department and you have die sense voltage readings so thats a bonus.


----------



## ViTosS

Well, at the end it seems that my problem was *tWRRD_sg* being at *28* and *tWRRD_dg* at *23* for my stability, I passed TM5 and Karhu this way in the screenshot, but if I reduce those to 28 and 23 I have errors in TM5, so now I'm really close to stability 100%, just need to run GSAT and MemTestPro, and finally run Prime95 112k FFTs to make sure, I'm happy with my IO/SA at 1.175/1.200v for this [email protected] flat, probably I can achieve [email protected] but I will leave this way for daily usage and less heat on the RAM


----------



## ViTosS

Maybe if I have patience will try to reduce again tRRD_L to 6 and S to 4, also reduce tWR to 12 and tRFC to 280, also those tWTR_L and tWTR_S on auto seems to change when I change tWRRD_dg and sg, the ones that cause my instability


----------



## itssladenlol

Im kinda Currious now.
Gonna try 1,4Sa 1,4 io now to see if the errors go away on the ace.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah well I looked at those boards to possibly replace my Z490 Ace but those prices aren't justifiable for just a better cache OC with downclocking and marginally better RAM OC. My Ace runs fine but it has a few small downsides which don't warrant spending like €400 extra.
> 
> That's why I wanted to pick up a Strix-E. It has everything I want from a board but I don't know if a Strix-E can hold up to 4400C17 on DR 16GB modules.. the Ace can quite easily..


The real question is, if the strix-e got actual good Bios Updates to Support high Frequency dual rank b--die.
I remember the msi board only taking 4000 dual rank and After Bios update 4700 was possible.
Same for z490 dark.
So i wonder if the strix-e got the treatment it needs for dual rank.

My maximus XII hero could run 4400 c16.
But everything over 4400 dual rank would go Black Screen and Not Boot/train , even After hours of attempting.
4700 single rank was fine.


----------



## itssladenlol

YaqY said:


> The dark is nice but its way more expensive than the apex and seems to be a lot less user friendly in bios compared to the apex. Ive seen the apex match the dark in pretty much the memory overclocking department and you have die sense voltage readings so thats a bonus.


Asus is no choice for me anymore, the crappy Fan controls in BIOS that You cant adjust under 45% no matter what you do. 
On my z270 hero i could Put my Fans from 1% to 100% in 1% steps.
Not possible anymore on new Asus boards. 
Asus said its for "security reasons" so Users dont fry their Hardware...
Thats why i gave away my z490 Hero. 
Msi Has perfect Fan control.


----------



## Betroz

Is it true that the 2009 version of Windows 10 has worse latency in AIDA64 over the 2004 version? (according to FR33THY it is...)


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
There's nothing good about 2009 or 2004
You have to go way back to 1709 to get anything better.


----------



## Betroz

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> There's nothing good about 2009 or 2004
> You have to go way back to 1709 to get anything better.


Running 2004 without issues. Yes I know that 1709 has the best latency, but that version is old and not supported by Microsoft.


----------



## itssladenlol

Got 4400 and 4500 stable on the ace.... 
You guys dont want To know how 
Rebooted 20 times inbetween Tests and it remains stable. 
Somehow my llc was bugged, i had llc Set so i get 1,25v under load, been running that for Ages. 
This morning i checked vcore under load and it wasnt 1,25, it was ****ing 1,20.
With Same llc and vcore Set in bios. 
I reflashed the bios and now its at 1,25v under load again with Same llc and vcore. 

So i guess what happend was my cpu wasnt getting enough voltage due to a llc Bug, that Resulted in cache errors, which translates into gsat and Anta777 extreme errors. 

I feel so dumb now, maybe unstable oc corrupted my BIOS before idk.


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> So i guess what happend was my cpu wasnt getting enough voltage due to a llc Bug, that Resulted in cache errors, which translates into gsat and Anta777 extreme errors.


Glad you figured it out


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Glad you figured it out


Thanks.
I feel like such an Idiot


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Glad you figured it out


After turning PC off and on again i get errors in seconds and ntfs.sys bluescreen.
I give up.


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> After turning PC off and on again i get errors in seconds and ntfs.sys bluescreen.
> I give up.
> View attachment 2465024


Damn
Do you have a secondary bios to boot to in case the bios chip is faulty?
Maybe the OS is corrupt?


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> Damn
> Do you have a secondary bios to boot to in case the bios chip is faulty?
> Maybe the OS is corrupt?


I have a second Boot and gsat, does the same there.
4200 throws zero errors.
Saw some others with Same Problems with msi board.

What a joke
Thats 4300










Ill stop investing time now. 
Gotta get another board.


----------



## YaqY

itssladenlol said:


> I have a second Boot and gsat, does the same there.
> 4200 throws zero errors.
> Saw some others with Same Problems with msi board.
> 
> What a joke
> Thats 4300
> 
> View attachment 2465025
> 
> 
> Ill stop investing time now.
> Gotta get another board.


Don't waste your time, i have invested a lot of time into the board, ODT's etc and no fix, board is flawed.


----------



## Placekicker19

itssladenlol said:


> Z490 dark kingpin looks nice


I got the regular evga z490 dark, not the kingpin. I'm waiting for my direct die kit to really get into memory overclocking but from what i tested its much easier than the z390 dark. I did a quick 4400 cl18 18 18 36 test and it passed testmem5 anta with only 1.175 sa, 1.15 io, and 1.4v dimm.


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> I got the regular evga z490 dark, not the kingpin. I'm waiting for my direct die kit to really get into memory overclocking but from what i tested its much easier than the z390 dark. I did a quick 4400 cl18 18 18 36 test and it passed testmem5 anta with only 1.175 sa, 1.15 io, and 1.4v dimm.


With 10900k and dual rank b die?


----------



## gilor80

g.skill f4-3600c16d-16gvk 3600 cl16-16-16-36 to 3800 CL15-16-16-34 V
read 57585/57412
write 57472 57467
copy 54306 54478
lantecy 42.6/42.3
i know this not the best but i have bad mobo like u see and bad imc(10900f) for me is great,
pass tm5 occt memory test and realbench 4 hours


----------



## itssladenlol

Just bought evga z490 dark, board arrives tomorrow. 
Amazon gets my msi board and refunded 450€.
Will keep you guys Updated for my memory oc's with the dark


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> Just bought evga z490 dark, board arrives tomorrow.
> Amazon gets my msi board and refunded 450€.
> Will keep you guys Updated for my memory oc's with the dark


Sweeet


----------



## YoungChris

itssladenlol said:


> Just bought evga z490 dark, board arrives tomorrow.
> Amazon gets my msi board and refunded 450€.
> Will keep you guys Updated for my memory oc's with the dark


Let me know your results! See my post on the HWBot forums


----------



## itssladenlol

YoungChris said:


> Let me know your results! See my post on the HWBot forums


Just saw the dark Has no ppd Option to Put ppd=0 in bios?. 
If so then yuck


----------



## KedarWolf

itssladenlol said:


> Just saw the dark Has no ppd Option to Put ppd=0 in bios?.
> If so then yuck


Usually if you can get someone to unlock the hidden options, you find that. Peeps on WinRaid forums really good about unlocking BIOS's etc.


----------



## itssladenlol

KedarWolf said:


> Usually if you can get someone to unlock the hidden options, you find that. Peeps on WinRaid forums really good about unlocking BIOS's etc.


If the evga board is good, i can live with putting ppd0 in timing configurator After every reboot. 
I Asked on evga Forums why the option is missing.


----------



## TheBoom

So tightening some of the tertiaries really kicked temps up abit. 4-5c higher on the core and cache. Hopefully it translates to actual performance as well. I know some are directly linked to avx temps, can’t remember which exactly but iirc it’s twrrd.

Since the dimms also don’t like twr 12 and trtp 6, trying out 13 and 7 respectively instead of going straight to 14 and 8 lol. Odd numbers I know, but if it works it works.


----------



## ViTosS

[email protected] seems really possible with the same [email protected] subtimings that I use atm, I just had to increase voltage (a lot) from 1.45 to 1.52v to be TM5 stable, I didn't stress with other apps because I don't want to use that much voltage 24/7, so I will stick with my current settings below, really pleased with my IMC and RAM kit OC capabilities, also I can run this 9900ks at just 1.128v stable at 5.0Ghz, I think I hit the lottery 2 times haha


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi guys,

This is my stable configuration.

VCCIO=1.20v, VCCSA=1.25v, DRAM=1.38v

Any suggestion for a better performance?


----------



## itssladenlol

Let's goooo


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> [email protected] seems really possible with the same [email protected] subtimings that I use atm, I just had to increase voltage (a lot) from 1.45 to 1.52v to be TM5 stable, I didn't stress with other apps because I don't want to use that much voltage 24/7, so I will stick with my current settings below, really pleased with my IMC and RAM kit OC capabilities, also I can run this 9900ks at just 1.128v stable at 5.0Ghz, I think I hit the lottery 2 times haha
> View attachment 2465122


Sweet 
It's about time you had some luck 
1.52 vdimm is not high. As long as it doesn't get too hot that is a moderate voltage

Edit:
Anyone know if these are the same PCB as the newer 4266c17. I just can't get the newer stuff here without selling a kidney!
F4-3200C14D-32GTZ
Cheers


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi,


I realized that the DRAM voltage is varying from 1.38v to 1.40v after I squeezed the memory times. 
Is this normal?


----------



## TheBoom

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I realized that the DRAM voltage is varying from 1.38v to 1.40v after I squeezed the memory times.
> Is this normal?


Yeah from what I know the boards (Asus at least) don’t show very accurate dram voltages so the min and max shown in hwinfo can jump between two values if you happen to set it at certain voltage points.

Side question tho, how did you get twtr_s at 0 and stable?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I changed tWRDD_dg to 23 and the tWTR_S went to zero... simple this way... LOL

1h OCCT, 2 cycles of TM5 and 3h playing and still stable... 

But any parameter I try to reduce, the system don't post or I have errors... I think I found the limit..

By the way I changed VDRAM to 1.37v and now voltage is stable at 1,379... No more no less..


----------



## ducegt

Pretty sure my OCing greed killed a 1 TB NVMe drive from power cycling between failed trainings. Didn't lose much important data since I backup stuff, but still a bummer I could have avoided.


----------



## gilor80

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I realized that the DRAM voltage is varying from 1.38v to 1.40v after I squeezed the memory times.
> Is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 2465208
> 
> 
> View attachment 2465209


Bro u have very good mobo and good CPU but 49ns is no the best the readf fine but u need do 60,352 or more. and write good,
i do like 57500read/write 42.4ns for 3733 but i have very bad mobo and bad IMC becuse 10900F , this can help u.









integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com













*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
 

Hello one question I'm search my stability for my ddr4 4000 cl 16 t1... It's impossible for my low vccio and vccsa actually is in 1,15v an 1,40 v ram where is the safe voltage for vccio and vccsa for 24/7 thanks!!




www.overclock.net


----------



## itssladenlol

Z490 dark seems like completely unfinished product....
Newest Bios update
1,55vdimm 1,4 Sa 1,4 io.
Tried skews, tried kingpin profiles.
All timings Auto and c18-18-18
Cant Boot 4400 with multiple pairs of memory, doesnt matter if single or dual rank.
Now i know why z490 dark is rev 1.0
And kingpin dark is rev 1.01...
Z490 dark was rushed.
I cant even go over 4400, with a dual dimm board, is that a ****ing joke?
Even my hero booted 4700 single rank.

Even the bios freezes when configuring settings.


----------



## gilor80

i wanted to buy the UNIFY but i see ur comment and no good so now the z490 dark no good also?
which mobo good fo oc ram to z490 ???
damn it
sorry for u bro 
@itssladenlol


----------



## itssladenlol

gilor80 said:


> i wanted to buy the UNIFY but i see ur comment and no good so now the z490 dark no good also?
> which mobo good fo oc ram to z490 ???
> damn it
> sorry for u bro (


Z490 dark is a joke 600€ board cant Boot 4400.
200€ 4 dimm board can Boot it lol.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

gilor80 said:


> Bro u have very good mobo and good CPU but 49ns is no the best the readf fine but u need do 60,352 or more. and write good,
> i do like 57500read/write 42.4ns for 3733 but i have very bad mobo and bad IMC becuse 10900F , this can help u.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> integralfx/MemTestHelper
> 
> 
> C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> Hello one question I'm search my stability for my ddr4 4000 cl 16 t1... It's impossible for my low vccio and vccsa actually is in 1,15v an 1,40 v ram where is the safe voltage for vccio and vccsa for 24/7 thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2465274



Do you think is better I try to run lower frequencies with lower CL ? 
Is it?


----------



## munternet

Which is better
F4-4000C17D-32GVKB 1.4v
or F4-4266C17D-32GVKB 1.5v


----------



## BotSkill

gilor80 said:


> i wanted to buy the UNIFY but i see ur comment and no good so now the z490 dark no good also?
> which mobo good fo oc ram to z490 ???
> damn it
> sorry for u bro
> @itssladenlol


Just buy Asus Maximus XII Apex. Best Z490 board.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I got 4133MHz... Should I enable "trace centering" ?


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> Which is better
> F4-4000C17D-32GVKB 1.4v
> or F4-4266C17D-32GVKB 1.5v


Ask @cstkl1 - he has tested both


----------



## TheBoom

RobertoSampaio said:


> I got 4133MHz... Should I enable "trace centering" ?


Yeah, it’s supposed to help with mem oc. I’m doing 4137 as well now with 17-19-19-40.

If you have b-die it should do better. Primary timings are a bit loose now.


----------



## munternet

RobertoSampaio said:


> I got 4133MHz... Should I enable "trace centering" ?
> 
> View attachment 2465284


I found the trace centering more beneficial on the Maximus XI Gene
Didn't seem to do much on the Apex XII


----------



## TheBoom

It seems to do more for higher frequencies similar to what I found for skew control on mine.

My board doesn’t have a seperate trace centering option, only the ones you find under training.


----------



## itssladenlol

Maximus XII Apex is on the way.


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> Maximus XII Apex is on the way.


Make sure you get the 0088 or 0901 BIOS


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Make sure you get the 0088 or 0901 BIOS


I will, ppd=0 all the way


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> Maximus XII Apex is on the way.


It's a good solid choice
Boots are very consistent


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> It's a good solid choice
> Boots are very consistent


Nö other choice left, had the maximus XII hero, msi ace, evga dark.
Hero was pretty nice and now i get an Upgraded Version with 2DIMM Slots


----------



## 2500k_2

itssladenlol said:


> Maximus XII Apex is on the way.


It will be very disappointing if the apex also does not meet expectations and msi ace remains the best choice for its money.


----------



## mouacyk

Finally got all the timings tightened due the help in this thread. Thanks all who shared tips about tRTP/tWR/tRRD_L/S and *_sg/dg/dr/dd values. They were right on and actually made the overclock more stable. I have yet to reduce the voltage and see how low it can go at this speed. Also now want to try going up towards 4GHz.


----------



## itssladenlol

2500k_2 said:


> It will be very disappointing if the apex also does not meet expectations and msi ace remains the best choice for its money.


Cant be worse than the msi. 
Msi Has bugged Bios, memory throws errors without reason.


----------



## munternet

2500k_2 said:


> It will be very disappointing if the apex also does not meet expectations and msi ace remains the best choice for its money.


I think the Apex XII is very consistent and if there are any problems it will likely not be the board 



itssladenlol said:


> Cant be worse than the msi.
> Msi Has bugged Bios, memory throws errors without reason.


If there are any bios problems with the Apex just clr cmos and flash a DIFFERENT bios then flash back to the one you were using
This clears all data and checks all the partitions of the bios rather than just the partition where the main bios is stored
I had this issue after entering the bios with an extremely unstable memory overclock that I suspect corrupted it


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> I think the Apex XII is very consistent and if there are any problems it will likely not be the board
> 
> 
> If there are any bios problems with the Apex just clr cmos and flash a DIFFERENT bios then flash back to the one you were using
> This clears all data and checks all the partitions of the bios rather than just the partition where the main bios is stored
> I had this issue after entering the bios with an extremely unstable memory overclock that I suspect corrupted it


Thanks , will keep that in Mind. 
Gonna Flash 0088 with Stock xmp Profile so nothing corrupts.


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> Thanks , will keep that in Mind.
> Gonna Flash 0088 with Stock xmp Profile so nothing corrupts.



You might want to load this one
It seems to work fine for me for about a week now 

XMP is not really recommended if you plan to manually overclock











We'll be back.


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> You might want to load this one
> It seems to work fine for me for about a week now
> 
> XMP is not really recommended if you plan to manually overclock
> 
> View attachment 2465383
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We'll be back.


I mean xmp to run 3200 to Flash Bios.
Flashing Bios with 4400 might be a Bad idea.
After that I obviously turn it off .
Saw that Feature but havent read what it actually does.
Gonna read it now.

Edit: Feature isnt for me, since i have tvb and C states Disabled anyway


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> I mean xmp to run 3200 to Flash Bios.
> Flashing Bios with 4400 might be a Bad idea.
> After that I obviously turn it off .
> Saw that Feature but havent read what it actually does.
> Gonna read it now.


Just leave it at JEDEC standard to flash 
Optimized defaults even


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi,

What does tCKE do?
Is it a good idea to lower it?

Tx


----------



## munternet

I just set mine to 0 on the Apex XII
Seems to work but I'm not sure if the board has made an adjustment in the background
I tried to read this, but was more confused after than when I started 

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/cp8qpp


----------



## Placekicker19

itssladenlol said:


> Z490 dark seems like completely unfinished product....
> Newest Bios update
> 1,55vdimm 1,4 Sa 1,4 io.
> Tried skews, tried kingpin profiles.
> All timings Auto and c18-18-18
> Cant Boot 4400 with multiple pairs of memory, doesnt matter if single or dual rank.
> Now i know why z490 dark is rev 1.0
> And kingpin dark is rev 1.01...
> Z490 dark was rushed.
> I cant even go over 4400, with a dual dimm board, is that a ****ing joke?
> Even my hero booted 4700 single rank.
> 
> Even the bios freezes when configuring settings.


Something is going on if you cant boot 4400 single or dual rank. 
Is the board training the ram properly?
Have you tried lower dram voltage and sa/io . I only tested single rank on mine with 4400 cl18 just to make sure everything was ok and i put dimm @ 1.45 and sa/io @ 1.225 each and it trained first attempt and ran tm5 without error.

When your bios was freezing up what did you experience? Was it just lagging really bad or did it completely freeze requiring a hard reset? Have you tried bios 1.06 or 1.07? I know 1.07 was suppose to optimize dual rank dimms.


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> Something is going on if you cant boot 4400 single or dual rank.
> Is the board training the ram properly?
> Have you tried lower dram voltage and sa/io . I only tested single rank on mine with 4400 cl18 just to make sure everything was ok and i put dimm @ 1.45 and sa/io @ 1.225 each and it trained first attempt and ran tm5 without error.
> 
> When your bios was freezing up what did you experience? Was it just lagging really bad or did it completely freeze requiring a hard reset? Have you tried bios 1.06 or 1.07? I know 1.07 was suppose to optimize dual rank dimms.


I tried 1.07 and 1.08 both need 3 minutes to train 4400.
If the bios freezes i need to hard Reset it. 
Every other board boots and trains 4600-4700 fine for me, the evga cant even train 4400 properly.
You probably got the kingpin Version Not the normal z490 dark. 
I tried everything, even my PCI express cards are not recognized, never had a board this Bad in my life. 
At 4200 c16 with tight timings it gives 46ns lol. 
Z490 dark and kingpin look the Same but are different Hardware revs.
Dark was rushed and kingpin with the errors fixed came 2-3 months later.
There is night and Day between the dark and kingpin in Terms of mem oc.


----------



## Nizzen

itssladenlol said:


> Z490 dark seems like completely unfinished product....
> Newest Bios update
> 1,55vdimm 1,4 Sa 1,4 io.
> Tried skews, tried kingpin profiles.
> All timings Auto and c18-18-18
> Cant Boot 4400 with multiple pairs of memory, doesnt matter if single or dual rank.
> Now i know why z490 dark is rev 1.0
> And kingpin dark is rev 1.01...
> Z490 dark was rushed.
> I cant even go over 4400, with a dual dimm board, is that a ****ing joke?
> Even my hero booted 4700 single rank.
> 
> Even the bios freezes when configuring settings.


Apex has been the best for several generations. Why change a winner


----------



## itssladenlol

Nizzen said:


> Apex has been the best for several generations. Why change a winner


^this.
My apex is on the way, but wont be here before monday


----------



## acoustic

OK, could use some advice here. Trying to figure out how to get these sticks to post @ 4000 .. I think I may have just hit a wall as they aren't the best b-die bin, they are dual-rank, and apparently the Z390 DARK doesn't like dual-rank as well ..

G.Skill 32GB 3200CL15 ; F4-3200C15D-32GVK (2x16gb sticks) on a 9900K(5.0core/4.7cache) / EVGA Z390 Dark:

I've got 3600 15-15-15-28 / 2T rock solid @ 1.45v + 1.18v VCCIO/SA. I'm now trying to push 4000. I'm currently testing 3800 @ same timings with just a voltage bump to 1.5v, and it's going right now on Anta777 extreme. My issue though, is that I can't get the sticks to post at 4000 no matter what. I've tried loosening timings up to 18-18-18-36, pushing more voltage (up to 1.52v), and increasing VCCIO/VCCSA (even though I don't think that's the issue) and I get hung on post-code 4C every time. I'm running manual w/ XMP off, letting board Auto the RTL/IO timings.

Any tips? This will be for my 24/7 use so I don't want to push too much voltage if the vDIMM voltage is the issue. As far as I understand, 1.55v is still OK, probably max?


----------



## munternet

acoustic said:


> OK, could use some advice here. Trying to figure out how to get these sticks to post @ 4000 .. I think I may have just hit a wall as they aren't the best b-die bin, they are dual-rank, and apparently the Z390 DARK doesn't like dual-rank as well ..
> 
> G.Skill 32GB 3200CL15 ; F4-3200C15D-32GVK (2x16gb sticks) on a 9900K(5.0core/4.7cache) / EVGA Z390 Dark:
> 
> I've got 3600 15-15-15-28 / 2T rock solid @ 1.45v + 1.18v VCCIO/SA. I'm now trying to push 4000. I'm currently testing 3800 @ same timings with just a voltage bump to 1.5v, and it's going right now on Anta777 extreme. My issue though, is that I can't get the sticks to post at 4000 no matter what. I've tried loosening timings up to 18-18-18-36, pushing more voltage (up to 1.52v), and increasing VCCIO/VCCSA (even though I don't think that's the issue) and I get hung on post-code 4C every time. I'm running manual w/ XMP off, letting board Auto the RTL/IO timings.
> 
> Any tips? This will be for my 24/7 use so I don't want to push too much voltage if the vDIMM voltage is the issue. As far as I understand, 1.55v is still OK, probably max?


Can you show some screen shots of the timing etc?
Vdimm seems pretty high for the frequency


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Which is better
> F4-4000C17D-32GVKB 1.4v
> or F4-4266C17D-32GVKB 1.5v


Based on others, 4266C17D is better.

However, based on my experience with two 4266C17Ds and one 4000C17D, 4000C17D is better 🥴


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Based on others, 4266C17D is better.
> 
> However, based on my experience with two 4266C17Ds and one 4000C17D, 4000C17D is better 🥴


Thanks for the reply  
I have the F4-4266C17D-32GVKB coming even though it was quite a bit more expensive
I suspect that the early 4000C17D was better but now the majority of high binned chips are going to the 4266C17D, well that's my theory anyway 
I have opted for the non-RGB stuff since I am skinning it anyway. Hope that doesn't negatively affect the quality...


----------



## bigfootnz

I'm fist time on ASUS (HERO XII) board playing with RTLs and IOLs. I was able to drop my RTL from 69 to 63 using IOL offset. But I'm not able to drop IOLs at all. Can someone tell me what I need to change in BIOS to reduce IOLs? Thanks


----------



## KedarWolf

bigfootnz said:


> I'm fist time on ASUS (HERO XII) board playing with RTLs and IOLs. I was able to drop my RTL from 69 to 63 using IOL offset. But I'm not able to drop IOLs at all. Can someone tell me what I need to change in BIOS to reduce IOLs? Thanks


How I've always had to lower IOLs and RTLs on Intel was to put them on Auto, set the RAM divider to something low like 3333Mhz, reboot. Then manually set them what they are at that divider, put the RAM back up to 4400 or whatever you run your RAM at, reboot. If it doesn't boot, try settings the lower RAM divider on Auto higher, then change it to your normal RAM speed.

It seems there is a set formula to how the IOLs and RTLs work together to get them to boot and setting them at the lower RAM divider finds that.

The RTLs and IOLs will be set lower at the lower divider.


----------



## bigfootnz

KedarWolf said:


> How I've always had to lower IOLs and RTLs on Intel was to put them on Auto, set the RAM divider to something low like 3333Mhz, reboot. Then manually set them what they are at that divider, put the RAM back up to 4400 or whatever you run your RAM at, reboot. If it doesn't boot, try settings the lower RAM divider on Auto higher, then change it to your normal RAM speed.
> 
> It seems there is a set formula to how the IOLs and RTLs work together to get them to boot and setting them at the lower RAM divider finds that.
> 
> The RTLs and IOLs will be set lower at the lower divider.


Ok, will give a try. Thanks


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Thanks for the reply
> I have the F4-4266C17D-32GVKB coming even though it was quite a bit more expensive
> I suspect that the early 4000C17D was better but now the majority of high binned chips are going to the 4266C17D, well that's my theory anyway
> I have opted for the non-RGB stuff since I am skinning it anyway. Hope that doesn't negatively affect the quality...


Both kits could be good. The most important thing is the turning point of voltage requirements (an exponential trend). 4000C17 1.4V is more focused on the low volt region while 4266C17 is more on the high volt region. There is a greater uncertainty regarding the 4000c17 kit in the high freq region, more like a lottery than the 4266c17. Anyway you should bin them in your rig


----------



## Placekicker19

itssladenlol said:


> I tried 1.07 and 1.08 both need 3 minutes to train 4400.
> If the bios freezes i need to hard Reset it.
> Every other board boots and trains 4600-4700 fine for me, the evga cant even train 4400 properly.
> You probably got the kingpin Version Not the normal z490 dark.
> I tried everything, even my PCI express cards are not recognized, never had a board this Bad in my life.
> At 4200 c16 with tight timings it gives 46ns lol.
> Z490 dark and kingpin look the Same but are different Hardware revs.
> Dark was rushed and kingpin with the errors fixed came 2-3 months later.
> There is night and Day between the dark and kingpin in Terms of mem oc.


No man , I got the regular z490 dark. I had to rma my z390 dark and they didnt have any so they replaced it with the regular. The dark and kingpin version both came out at the same time. 

Did the bios freeze during menory training? Or would it just freeze while trying to adjust settings? If your pci express isn't being recognized it sounds like you got a faulty board. I had a faulty msi z390 meg ace and my gpu was stuck in pcie 3.0 x8 and I experienced all kinds of issues with that board.
Did you ever try lower voltages on sa/io and dimm? My z390 wouldnt train if sa/io was to high.
Did it take that long to train 4400 using single rank too? 
It sucks getting faulty hardware.
Hopefully the apex serves you well.


----------



## ViTosS

I found out that *tFAW*, *tWRRD_sg *and* tWRRD_dg* tightened makes my RAM heats way more then the other subtimings, any explanation to this?


----------



## munternet

My current daily with my older 3600-16 sticks 2x16
Waiting for the new Gskill 4266c17 2x16 sticks to arrive


----------



## Gen.

Let me remind you, I am from Russia, I have already done material for "ours", but I will tell you about setting up rtl too. I use google translate, so don't hit hard  I hope it will be intuitively clear. Love, Alexander or just Gen. 

*Introduction*
Greetings to all.
Everyone was waiting, everyone wanted a clear guide to setting up an RTL block.
*Theory*
What is an RTL block? This is our memory training in the correct mode of its operation. Correct RTL = IOL + IOL Offset <= 28 (e.g. 7-21, 6-21 or 5-21). As a rule, the ratio should be 7-21, not 6-21. Since with IOL = 6, a specific memory may simply not be stable, but the same memory released even in the same week / year is stable. If anyone decides to swoop down on 5-21, I will disappoint you a little. Such low combinations are available, as a rule, only at low memory frequencies. This is somewhere up to 3200 MHz RAM frequency. Also, I do not recommend underestimating the IOL Offset and raising the IOL. It turned out that, in general, this will not change anything much (for example, combinations of 14-14 or 13-14), but in SuperPi 7-21 it will be faster than 14-14.
Hope that something was clear.
*Recommendations*
Further, I do not recommend making the difference in IOL, even if the RTL is on par (for example, IOL 7-7, RTL 60-60 (60-61 / 60-62). That is, we do either 6-6 or 7-7.
Exceptions are boards such as: ASUS PRIME Z390 / Z490, TUF Z390 / Z490, STRIX Z390 / Z490. They may even have 7-7 and 59-58, in this case I recommend doing 6-7 58-58. There are Z390 GIGABYTE boards, where the RTL block at 4000+ simply does not start (it will be 13-13, 14-14, even 15-15 sometimes), which is the reason for this, only the BIOS shell writers know.
There are also Z490 boards (MSI, less often ASUS), where IOL 7-7 will simply not start at any frequency. While you can try 8-8, you must correct the BIOS soon, then everything will work correctly and correctly.
What else I would like to say ... Sometimes it is useful to throw VCCIO / VCCSA voltages for a more successful training (for Z170-Z390 ~ 1.35V / 1.4V, for Z490 ~ 1.38V / 1.45V). I'm talking now specifically about training, then you can set Memory Fast Boot = Enabled / No training.
And last but not least, DO THE CORRECT TRAINING BEFORE SETTING THE TIMINGS, because with 8-8 ++ you can be stable, but with the right training, you won't (more often it concerns some Z270 (ASRock, MSI) and Z490 (GIGABYTE) boards) ...
*Explanations of what and where*
Well, now let's get down to the very essence:
RTL block decoding:
CHA - channel A (1/3 for cards with 4 RAM slots (existing))
CHB - channel B (2/4 for cards with 4 RAM slots (existing))
D0 - first DIMM (needed for both SR and DR)
D1- second DIMM (needed for DR and only)
R0 - the first RANK (needed for both SR and DR)
R1- second RANK (needed for DR and only)
P.S. SR - single rank - memory chips are soldered on one side; DR - dual rank - memory chips are soldered on both sides.
P.S.S. ASRock Timing Configuration for boards with two RAM slots can display 2 strips in A or B channel - we do not pay attention.
*RTL setup*
We set RTL Init according to the formula = 2 * CL + 35. 35 = Constanta (IOL Offset (21) + IOL Init (4) + 10 (Constanta). More often this is a suitable option, sometimes 2 * CL + 37 helps (Auto Z490 MSI sets this way, ASUS can set the formula itself or sky-high values For GIGABYTE boards, skip this step, because this is not in it, and it sets some of its bad values. Set IOL Offset 21-21 (IO_Latency_offset for ASUS boards, IO Compensation for MSI boards) for A and B channels (on GIGABYTE only available on XOC BIOS Z490) Set RFR Delay 14-14 for A and B channels (for ASUS and GIGABYTE boards) Other parameters are in Auto.
For ASUS, MSI boards, we set the following parameters:
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
Always. Permanent. They can help to train the memory in auto-mode (already correctly from the first or second time).
Then “press” F10-Enter and go back to the BIOS. We go into the RTL block and look for, for example, such a picture (for example, ASUS APEX XI with 4533-CL17-CR1 and SR memory):
DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHA) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHB) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [66]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [65]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [12]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [10]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
The above training is incorrect, because we know that our IOLs should be 6-6 or 7-7.
What to do? From the IOL of channel A, which is 12, we subtract 7 (correct IOL) to get a number that must also be subtracted from the RTL of channel A. 12-7 (correct IOL) = 5. From the RTL of channel A, subtract 5, namely 66 -5 = 61. Our RTL-IOL for Channel A will be 61-7. We do the same with the B channel. We get 62-7. We enter the correct values.
It should look like this:
DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHA) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHB) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
Then “press” F10-Enter and go back to the BIOS. For ASUS boards, you can then do it like this:
DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
That is, put “zeros” where we do not use ranks and dimms. For the rest of the boards, just fix the values.
Then you can try 60-6, 61-6, but it is easy to lose stability at such a low CL and high frequency.
*Conclusion*
Hopefully now it is better to understand how to set up the RTL block. If you have any questions, be sure to write, I might add something, the drug is open or directly on the forum.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> This is my 4700c17 daily settings on Apex z490 xii.


So 5.5 Ghz on the cores is not daily 
I see IO and SA are very low for that mem speed.


----------



## Betroz

munternet said:


> My current daily with my older 3600-16 sticks 2x16


Same settings, but different results. I have HT disabled, if that could be the reason. I guess we can't trust AIDA64 bench from a singel run alone.
Edit : Well I have set RTL and IOL....


----------



## Gen.

You have some weak results on APEX XII. I achieved 4533 18-18 1.45V on the Z490 Tomahawk + 10400.


----------



## Betroz

Gen. said:


> You have some weak results on APEX XII. I achieved 4533 18-18 1.45V on the Z490 Tomahawk + 10400.


The IMC in my 10900K is probably weaker than yours is, or I can't cool it enough (360 AIO). My sticks have been tested on an other Z490 Apex board, and he got them to 4533 16-17-17 tweaked just fine. AIDA 72/72 GB/s and 33.5ns if I remember correctly 

Edit : But my sticks requires alot more VDIMM too, so not the best samples out there.


----------



## Gen.

I used 4400 16-17-34-2T 1.53V / IO 1.3 / SA 1.36. 4533 18-18-38-2Т 1.45V / IO 1.36 / Sa 1.45 for passing tm5 extreme1


----------



## Gen.

I have not tried the voltage below. Let me remind you that I have a Z490 Tomahawk + i5 10400. DR 4400CL16


----------



## munternet

Betroz said:


> The IMC in my 10900K is probably weaker than yours is, or I can't cool it enough (360 AIO). My sticks have been tested on an other Z490 Apex board, and he got them to 4533 16-17-17 tweaked just fine. AIDA 72/72 GB/s and 33.5ns if I remember correctly
> 
> Edit : But my sticks requires alot more VDIMM too, so not the best samples out there.


Wow, that's pretty good latency. My current sticks don't like more than about 1.45vdimm but hopefully the new ones will


Gen. said:


> I have not tried the voltage below. Let me remind you that I have a Z490 Tomahawk + i5 10400. DR 4400CL16


Pretty good results, especially considering it's cheaper hardware 
What model are the sticks?


----------



## Gen.

munternet said:


> Pretty good results, especially considering it's cheaper hardware
> What model are the sticks?


Yes, the motherboard was bought in July 2020, the processor is also (has SRH78 - IMC 10900K), sticks are indicated in CPU-Z (F4-3000C14D-32GTZR). Do you understand me well? I just use google translator


----------



## SunnyStefan

Gen. said:


> Yes, the motherboard was bought in July 2020, the processor is also (has SRH78 - IMC 10900K), sticks are indicated in CPU-Z (F4-3000C14D-32GTZR). Do you understand me well? I just use google translator


Yeah I can understand you perfectly fine.


----------



## YoungChris

SunnyStefan said:


> 4800mhz with *1T* must have been with a *2 x 8gb* setup right? What's the highest stable frequency you could reach with *1T *and *2 x 16gb* dimms? 2 x 16gb @ 4000mhz + *1T *is still nearly impossible with the Z490 Apex, if EVGA's Dark Kingpin can manage that I'd love to hear about it.


I could do 3866 ratio and 102.1 bclk with 2x16 and 1t, but don't have the memory anymore. 4800 1t was 2x8.


----------



## thebski

Is there sort of a consensus "best" kit to buy to play around with at the moment? It's been a few years now since I've bought memory. My best kit I've been able to get 4133 17-17-38-1N out of on an 8700K/Maximus X Apex and my current 9900K/Z390 Dark.

I guess I'm just wanting to buy the best memory I can get for running the highest speeds/tightest timings. Even if I can't reach the kits potential on this system, hopefully I can on the next one.

Kits I've considered, all G Skill:

32 GB 4266C17D 1.5V
16 GB 4600C18D 1.45V
16 GB 4400C16D 1.5V

What are some opinions on dual rank vs single rank? Is there a performance gain if the system has 4 total ranks as opposed to 2? If there is, is it worth the decrease in speed and increase in timings due to 16 GB modules? That's the reason the 32 GB kit is on my list.

Any opinions on these kits, or suggestions on other kits? Thanks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

thebski said:


> Is there sort of a consensus "best" kit to buy to play around with at the moment? It's been a few years now since I've bought memory. My best kit I've been able to get 4133 17-17-38-1N out of on an 8700K/Maximus X Apex and my current 9900K/Z390 Dark.
> 
> I guess I'm just wanting to buy the best memory I can get for running the highest speeds/tightest timings. Even if I can't reach the kits potential on this system, hopefully I can on the next one.
> 
> Kits I've considered, all G Skill:
> 
> 32 GB 4266C17D 1.5V
> 16 GB 4600C18D 1.45V
> 16 GB 4400C16D 1.5V
> 
> What are some opinions on dual rank vs single rank? Is there a performance gain if the system has 4 total ranks as opposed to 2? If there is, is it worth the decrease in speed and increase in timings due to 16 GB modules? That's the reason the 32 GB kit is on my list.
> 
> Any opinions on these kits, or suggestions on other kits? Thanks.


Wait for 3800C14D-32GTZN


----------



## TheBoom

So I might have somehow bricked windows. Got the memory to pass memtest overnight and then made the mistake of using AI Suite to see if I could lower VCCIO and VCCSA.

It passed 112ffts for 15 minutes so I thought it’s probably stable and I should restart and set those values in bios.

Well I couldn’t even get past post. Weird clicky noises at the Bios logo followed by getting stuck at Windows logo. Three restarts it goes into preparing startup repair but ends up in a black screen after which.

My guess is the Nvidia driver got corrupted bad. Thinking of what my options are now.

Edit : it seems the bcd files got corrupted. Any ideas? Apart from a clean install.


----------



## TheBoom

Odd clicky noises seem to happen on all cold boots. Tried everything from startup repair to system restore and even bcdedit from cmd. Even safe mode gets stuck at windows logo.

Trying a OS reset now. At this point I can’t tell if it’s windows or possibly hardware. Everything in recovery menus seem incredibly slow and laggy. Takes 5 mins to load up the recovery screen. NVME or CPU are the only culprits I can think of.


----------



## SunnyStefan

TheBoom said:


> Odd clicky noises seem to happen on all cold boots. Tried everything from startup repair to system restore and even bcdedit from cmd. Even safe mode gets stuck at windows logo.
> 
> Trying a OS reset now. At this point I can’t tell if it’s windows or possibly hardware. Everything in recovery menus seem incredibly slow and laggy. Takes 5 mins to load up the recovery screen. NVME or CPU are the only culprits I can think of.


I've experienced the same freezing during the windows logo loading animation during boot after trying out overly agressive memory timings. In my case the issue was a corrupt boot sector / bcd files (not sure on the proper terminology). Windows has a built-in startup repair module, but I wasn't having any luck with it at all. What _did _work for me however was using a third party utility to repair windows start up files. I've had success with Macrium Reflect most recently, but also Parted Magic the prior time I experienced this same issue. I think you can probably get away with creating a Microsoft Windows recovery drive instead of either of these third party options. These tool have a much better chance of fixing your startup issues since they all involve booting and running off of an external USB drive to complete the process. Repairing a corrupt operating system with it's own repair tools will not work if the file corrupt is significant.

Obviously none of what I've mentioned above will matter if your issue stems from hardware failure, hopefully that's not the case.


----------



## munternet

TheBoom said:


> Odd clicky noises seem to happen on all cold boots. Tried everything from startup repair to system restore and even bcdedit from cmd. Even safe mode gets stuck at windows logo.
> 
> Trying a OS reset now. At this point I can’t tell if it’s windows or possibly hardware. Everything in recovery menus seem incredibly slow and laggy. Takes 5 mins to load up the recovery screen. NVME or CPU are the only culprits I can think of.


Memory overclocking seems to damage the OS a fair bit
I've had to reload it from my spare M.2 using acronis about 10 times after corrupting Windows


----------



## TheBoom

Thanks. Seems like I was doing the wrong thing, creating a recovery disk instead of the installation media.

There were no options to repair with the recovery disk. I don’t have a spare gpu to boot into windows either or that would have been my first course of action.

Best part is I can’t get the igpu on my 10700k to work at all. Might have been a defect from the beginning.


----------



## munternet

TheBoom said:


> Thanks. Seems like I was doing the wrong thing, creating a recovery disk instead of the installation media.
> 
> There were no options to repair with the recovery disk. I don’t have a spare gpu to boot into windows either or that would have been my first course of action.
> 
> Best part is I can’t get the igpu on my 10700k to work at all. Might have been a defect from the beginning.


Takes me about 3 minutes to restore my operating system


----------



## TheBoom

munternet said:


> Takes me about 3 minutes to restore my operating system
> View attachment 2465900


Yep I took it for granted and didn’t make any backups. Didn’t have any issue with startup repair before this. It always worked. This time I think some driver and bcd files got royally screwed.

Haven’t done a clean install of windows in a decade, maybe it’s finally time to do so.


----------



## TheBoom

Can a memory oc corrupt a non os drive?

So I just found out that the cause of all my problems was a barracuda 3tb hdd which was also the thing making the weird clicky noises (should have thought of that,
I know).

It was basically preventing windows from booting. Two days and a damn reformat plus clean install and then I figure it out.


----------



## Placekicker19

im doing some testing on the z490 dark and im setting 4800mhz in bios but only getting 4788mhz in windows. ive only tweaked primaries, dimm 1.5,sa 1.35 , io 1.3. I spoke to a higher up at EVga and he informed me the z490 dark and kingpin are the exact same boards. The kingpin is a binned dark thats capable of 5000mhz ram and the box is signed by kingpin. I tested 2 10900ks and they both have been bootable at 4800. One needed 1.4 io/1.45 sa and the other needs 1.3io and 1.35sa. if the sa /io was set to high the board would fail to train.


----------



## TheBoom

Placekicker19 said:


> im doing some testing on the z490 dark and im setting 4800mhz in bios but only getting 4788mhz in windows. ive only tweaked primaries, dimm 1.5,sa 1.35 , io 1.3. I spoke to a higher up at EVga and he informed me the z490 dark and kingpin are the exact same boards. The kingpin is a binned dark thats capable of 5000mhz ram and the box is signed by kingpin. I tested 2 10900ks and they both have been bootable at 4800. One needed 1.4 io/1.45 sa and the other needs 1.3io and 1.35sa. if the sa /io was set to high the board would fail to train.


Asrock timing configurator doesn’t show the correct ram frequency. It’s always off by abit. Use hwinfo or cpu-z for frequency.


----------



## artemuss1990

What is better for formula xii: Gskill 32 GB 4266C17D or Crucial Ballistix MAX 4400 MHz 16GBx2?


----------



## SunnyStefan

artemuss1990 said:


> What is better for formula xii: Gskill 32 GB 4266C17D or Crucial Ballistix MAX 4400 MHz 16GBx2?


It might help if you share the specs of both kits in question.

Crucial Ballistix MAX 4400 MHz 16GBx2
CL19-19-19-43
1.4V
Effective Latency at XMP ~ 8.18 ns

Gskill 32 GB 4266C17D
CL17-18-18-38
1.45V 1.50V
Effective Latency at XMP ~ 7.97 ns

My first impression is that the G.Skill set should be faster, at least when both kits are operating with vanilla XMP settings.
On the other hand, the G.Skill 4266C17 kit requires more voltage than the Crucial does. It's running at 4266 MHz instead of 4400 MHz, but this is still worth pointing out.
Are you planning on overclocking / tuning which ever kit you end up purchasing? The Crucial kit _may _handle higher frequencies better if overclocking, but don't take my word for it.
Between these two I'd lean towards the G.Skill kit personally.


----------



## YaqY

SunnyStefan said:


> It might help if you share the specs of both kits in question.
> 
> Crucial Ballistix MAX 4400 MHz 16GBx2
> CL19-19-19-43
> 1.4V
> Effective Latency at XMP ~ 8.18 ns
> 
> Gskill 32 GB 4266C17D
> CL17-18-18-38
> 1.45V
> Effective Latency at XMP ~ 7.97 ns
> 
> My first impression is that the G.Skill set should be faster, at least when both kits are operating with vanilla XMP settings.
> On the other hand, the G.Skill 4266C17 kit requires more voltage than the Crucial does. It's running at 4266 MHz instead of 4400 MHz, but this is still worth pointing out.
> Are you planning on overclocking / tuning which ever kit you end up purchasing? The Crucial kit _may _handle higher frequencies better if overclocking, but don't take my word for it.
> Between these two I'd lean towards the G.Skill kit personally.


Well the g.skill kit is bdie, the crucial kit is probably rev b, so the kits are very different.


----------



## munternet

artemuss1990 said:


> What is better for formula xii: Gskill 32 GB 4266C17D or Crucial Ballistix MAX 4400 MHz 16GBx2?


Do they both have temp sensors?
I know the Gskills do
If you're going to push them it might be handy


----------



## YaqY

munternet said:


> Do they both have temp sensors?
> I know the Gskills do
> If you're going to push them it might be handy


Rev b is super temperature tolerant unlike bdie, it might have temp sensors but it is pretty hard to get it to error from temps.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SunnyStefan said:


> It might help if you share the specs of both kits in question.
> 
> Crucial Ballistix MAX 4400 MHz 16GBx2
> CL19-19-19-43
> 1.4V
> Effective Latency at XMP ~ 8.18 ns
> 
> Gskill 32 GB 4266C17D
> CL17-18-18-38
> 1.45V
> Effective Latency at XMP ~ 7.97 ns
> 
> My first impression is that the G.Skill set should be faster, at least when both kits are operating with vanilla XMP settings.
> On the other hand, the G.Skill 4266C17 kit requires more voltage than the Crucial does. It's running at 4266 MHz instead of 4400 MHz, but this is still worth pointing out.
> Are you planning on overclocking / tuning which ever kit you end up purchasing? The Crucial kit _may _handle higher frequencies better if overclocking, but don't take my word for it.
> Between these two I'd lean towards the G.Skill kit personally.


This spec is wrong, 32GB 4266c17d is at 1.5V.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Do they both have temp sensors?
> I know the Gskills do
> If you're going to push them it might be handy


They all have.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> im doing some testing on the z490 dark and im setting 4800mhz in bios but only getting 4788mhz in windows. ive only tweaked primaries, dimm 1.5,sa 1.35 , io 1.3. I spoke to a higher up at EVga and he informed me the z490 dark and kingpin are the exact same boards. The kingpin is a binned dark thats capable of 5000mhz ram and the box is signed by kingpin. I tested 2 10900ks and they both have been bootable at 4800. One needed 1.4 io/1.45 sa and the other needs 1.3io and 1.35sa. if the sa /io was set to high the board would fail to train.


Bus won't always be running at 100MHz, sometimes 99.8MHz, so it might be 4788 or sth.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

artemuss1990 said:


> What is better for formula xii: Gskill 32 GB 4266C17D or Crucial Ballistix MAX 4400 MHz 16GBx2?


4266c17d runs actually faster than Max 4400.

If you choose Max 4400 you should look at the speed of 4800+ 18-24-42.

I am waiting for that 3800C14D-32GTZN kit.


----------



## SunnyStefan

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This spec is wrong, 32GB 4266c17d is at 1.5V.


Oooh you're right, I was looking at a different G.Skill set of RAM with a similar name (F4-4266C17Q), nice catch.


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I am waiting for that 3800C14D-32GTZN kit.


*F4-3800C14D-32GTZN** - *The specs on this kit look insane.

3800MHz
CL14-16-16-36 @ 1.50V
32GB (2x16GB)
This is most likely Samsung B-die right? Typically B-die XMP profiles have straight timings (ie: 3600 MHz CL16-16-16-36).

I found it on some website I've never heard of: memoryC.com supposedly has this set for a whopping *$375*.


----------



## Nizzen

*F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB any day.*

Same performance as 300mhz higher clocked single rank 2x8GB if both are tweaked, in some games. 

This kit is pretty much garanteed 4400c17 tweaked , even 4600c17 i doable


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> Memory overclocking seems to damage the OS a fair bit
> I've had to reload it from my spare M.2 using acronis about 10 times after corrupting Windows


Some people have that problem more than others. I don't know why.

Maybe it's a combination about type/brand motherboard and ssd?

Some "never" has that problem, and some have the problem all the time.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SunnyStefan said:


> *F4-3800C14D-32GTZN** - *The specs on this kit look insane.
> 
> 3800MHz
> CL14-16-16-36 @ 1.50V
> 32GB (2x16GB)
> This is most likely Samsung B-die right? Typically B-die XMP profiles have straight timings (ie: 3600 MHz CL16-16-16-36).
> 
> I found it on some website I've never heard of: memoryC.com supposedly has this set for a whopping *$375*.


Yup, this is bdie. Same spec as current 3800C14D-16GTZN but with DR layout. memoryc rep says they should have it in 2 weeks if ordered. I might just wait for NE.


----------



## munternet

Nizzen said:


> Some people have that problem more than others. I don't know why.
> 
> Maybe it's a combination about type/brand motherboard and ssd?
> 
> Some "never" has that problem, and some have the problem all the time.


I think some people are more conservative with their overclocking too
I can sometimes spend the evening blue screening or freezing the PC at a high memory frequencies trying to find the best settings and I imagine some won't do that 
I also manage to corrupt the BIOS


----------



## TheBoom

Weird thing is the hdd dying during mem oc. That’s a new one even for me.

Could be related to IRST or Samsung rapid mode.


----------



## artemuss1990

Thanks I will take F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB


----------



## bxcounter

Just testing: 9900k--HT OFF--5.0/4.6
Sticks: Gskill [email protected] 14-15-15-36 1T
(aida score is 63/62/58 - 34.4ns)


----------



## bigfootnz

I’m looking to buy TEAM GROUP 8PACK EDITION 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHZ or 3600C16 (which should be the same) does anyone have experience with them on z490? What it can be achieved with them, thanks?


----------



## itssladenlol

Gen. said:


> You have some weak results on APEX XII. I achieved 4533 18-18 1.45V on the Z490 Tomahawk + 10400.


Werent you one of the people with Same Problem as me with z490 ace bugged Bios, memory errors After Restart? 

Is z490 tomahawk better now for you?


----------



## Gen.

itssladenlol said:


> Werent you one of the people with Same Problem as me with z490 ace bugged Bios, memory errors After Restart?
> 
> Is z490 tomahawk better now for you?


I haven't seen any issues after shutting down and restarting my computer on the tomahawk. Everything suited me. Bios 1.30
I have 2 systems:
1) Fractal Design Focus G White + Seasonic M12II-520 + Z490 Tomahawk + 10400 + TR Macho Rev. B + SSD 860 EVO 250GB + WD Blue 1TB
2) CM H500P Mesh White + Seasonic Focus+ Gold 750W + Apex XI + 9900KF + Deepcool l360v2 + 1080Ti ROG ASUS + 970EVO 250GB + 860 EVO 1TB + WD RED 3TB


----------



## eeroo94

Does these timings look correct, can't do more than 3600 MHz with this board and dual rank kit.


----------



## Gen.

eeroo94 said:


> Does these timings look correct, can't do more than 3600 MHz with this board and dual rank kit.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2466105


This board can reach 3800-3900 on 2xDR.


----------



## bscool

bigfootnz said:


> I’m looking to buy TEAM GROUP 8PACK EDITION 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHZ or 3600C16 (which should be the same) does anyone have experience with them on z490? What it can be achieved with them, thanks?


I had 2 kits of the 2x16gb 3600c16 kits Team Group 8Pack Edition 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit and they are good for [email protected] in z490 Unify and Apex and 4266 in z490 Hero. They might have done 4400c16 but I didn't have them long enough to test that long. I used them in a build I did for someone else.

After that I got Gskill 3200c14 and 4266c17 2x16gb kits and they all run about the same topping for daily use at [email protected] in the Unfy and Apex


----------



## bigfootnz

bscool said:


> I had 2 kits of the 2x16gb 3600c16 kits Team Group 8Pack Edition 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit and they are good for [email protected] in z490 Unify and Apex and 4266 in z490 Hero. They might have done 4400c16 but I didn't have them long enough to test that long. I used them in a build I did for someone else.
> 
> After that I got Gskill 3200c14 and 4266c17 2x16gb kits and they all run about the same topping for daily use at [email protected] in the Unfy and Apex


Thank you, this is just what I wanted to hear.


----------



## eeroo94

Gen. said:


> This board can reach 3800-3900 on 2xDR.


I was getting errors already at 3733.


----------



## Ichirou

I think I did the impossible: 4x16 GB (64 GB total) set to 4,141 MHz and CL15, with a generic 4,000 MHz @ CL18 kit. 7.245 ns latency, almost near 5,000 MHz @ CL18 latency.
To make that work, it needs 1.6V. If I set voltage to 1.55V instead, I can only do a frequency of 4,040 MHz (still CL15). At 1.5V, the best I can do is 4,174 MHz at CL16.
When I bought the RAM, it costed me $10.13/GB, so slightly below market price of those high frequency kits. It's Micron B-die, if you are curious.

Already done various stress tests including TM5 with 1usmus' config, and passed with flying colours. Below are my timings at the moment; I'm still tweaking tRCD+tRP+tRAS.
As for why the DRAM frequency is odd, it's because I did a BCLK OC of 101.0. I'll see if I can push that further later.

I'll upload an AIDA64 benchmark when I'm done using the PC later, since I have stuff running right now and it wouldn't be accurate.
My CPU is an i7-8086k set to 51x core multiplier (AVX-1), and a cache of 47x. (With BCLK OC, add 50 MHz to both.) 1.38V Vcore, 1.23V VCCIO, 1.25V VCCSA.


----------



## Gen.

eeroo94 said:


> I was getting errors already at 3733.


All because you need to install ODT: WR=80, Park=48, Nom=0 for both channels


----------



## eeroo94

Gen. said:


> All because you need to install ODT: WR=80, Park=48, Nom=0 for both channels


This looks right?


----------



## Maestro1337

Betroz said:


> Is it true that the 2009 version of Windows 10 has worse latency in AIDA64 over the 2004 version? (according to FR33THY it is...)


Bruh Fr33thy  A clueless wanna be that just needs to get good instead of trying to chase 0.5ns of latency.


----------



## TheBoom

Maestro1337 said:


> Bruh Fr33thy  A clueless wanna be that just needs to get good instead of trying to chase 0.5ns of latency.


Apparently everyone in ocnet hates this guy.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gen. said:


> All because you need to install ODT: WR=80, Park=48, Nom=0 for both channels


Z390 MSI might need different values, as wr-80 park-120 Nom-34


----------



## Ichirou

Ichirou said:


> I think I did the impossible: 4x16 GB (64 GB total) set to 4,141 MHz and CL15, with a generic 4,000 MHz @ CL18 kit. 7.245 ns latency, almost near 5,000 MHz @ CL18 latency.
> To make that work, it needs 1.6V. If I set voltage to 1.55V instead, I can only do a frequency of 4,040 MHz (still CL15). At 1.5V, the best I can do is 4,174 MHz at CL16.
> When I bought the RAM, it costed me $10.13/GB, so slightly below market price of those high frequency kits. It's Micron B-die, if you are curious.
> 
> Already done various stress tests including TM5 with 1usmus' config, and passed with flying colours. Below are my timings at the moment; I'm still tweaking tRCD+tRP+tRAS.
> As for why the DRAM frequency is odd, it's because I did a BCLK OC of 101.0. I'll see if I can push that further later.
> 
> I'll upload an AIDA64 benchmark when I'm done using the PC later, since I have stuff running right now and it wouldn't be accurate.
> My CPU is an i7-8086k set to 51x core multiplier (AVX-1), and a cache of 47x. (With BCLK OC, add 50 MHz to both.) 1.38V Vcore, 1.23V VCCIO, 1.25V VCCSA.
> 
> View attachment 2466257


Did some further tweaking. Tentative DRAM voltage of 1.63V, 4,174 MHz @ CL15, 4x16 GB (64 GB total) Micron B-die. Absolute latency of 7.187ns.
Dialed back tRCD+tRP for some IMC stability. Haven't bothered to push tREFI to max since I don't really want to chance it.























Based on my estimates, if I were to pump 1.7V into this RAM, I could probably hit 4,000 MHz @ CL14. Scaling has been practically linear so far.
But my ASUS bios gives a red colour warning, so I'm not sure if I want to pull the trigger on that. It's just a Prime and not a Maximus or anything.


----------



## KedarWolf

Deleted, wrong thread.


----------



## Betroz

Ichirou said:


> Did some further tweaking


Did you try to get tRFC lower? 700 is high... Try 350.


----------



## Ichirou

Betroz said:


> Did you try to get tRFC lower? 700 is high... Try 350.


This higher tRFC is standard for Micron B-die; it's really only Samsung B-die that can push much lower. See chart below.
My PC will intermittently freeze if I attempt even 650. I could test down to 660 or so, but I don't really feel like squeezing every little bit out of it.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Does anyone know how to remove the G.Skill Trident Z Royal heat spreader safely?


----------



## Gen.

eeroo94 said:


> This looks right?
> 
> View attachment 2466299


Yes, of course.


----------



## TheBoom

GeneO said:


> PPD = 0 turns off RAM power savings so then TXP (and I believe tCKE) are no longer relevant. Have you tried PPD = 0? It gives the best boost in latency,


I did but I seem to consistently get errors in tm5 anta extreme test 2 with ppd 0. Might be running too hot? Need to do some more testing tbh.


----------



## itssladenlol

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know how to remove the G.Skill Trident Z Royal heat spreader safely?


I heat mine up with a hair dryer, but Pull very slow and careful, one wrong move and You Pull Out memory Chips.


----------



## itssladenlol

TheBoom said:


> I did but I seem to consistently get errors in tm5 anta extreme test 2 with ppd 0. Might be running too hot? Need to do some more testing tbh.


This could explain my errors in TM5 Extreme also


----------



## Arctucas

itssladenlol said:


> I heat mine up with a hair dryer, but Pull very slow and careful, one wrong move and You Pull Out memory Chips.


I might buy a set if I could get rid of the heatsinks.


----------



## munternet

Arctucas said:


> I might buy a set if I could get rid of the heatsinks.


I will be removing the skins from these
If you don't hear back in the next few days I am in mourning 
They are hot off the press as you can see 2020 November


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

GeneO said:


> PPD = 0 turns off RAM power savings so then TXP (and I believe tCKE) are no longer relevant. Have you tried PPD = 0? It gives the best boost in latency,


PPD is one of the three ways of power down, while tCKE=0 turns all power downs off.


----------



## YaqY

pipes said:


> Why?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Because it is a better bin?


----------



## Ichirou

TheBoom said:


> General consensus seems to be around 1.35-1.45v max for both IO and SA. I personally don’t want to go over 1.4v.
> 
> 1.65 vdimm for daily seems pretty high tbh. If you can cool it then it’s fine I guess.


Those seem like high values. But I suppose it gives me a lot of room to experiment. Has there been any anecdotal evidence on how it affects IMC degradation?
I'm aware that there's a sweet spot effect, so it'll probably involve a lot of testing for me to find the perfect value to stabilize tRCD+tRP and/or tRFC.

I messaged Buildzoid yesterday in regards to VCCSA; he explained that it is mostly only used for stabilizing high frequencies and higher rank counts and it does not really increase power draw, so he punches it at 1.4V. In my case, I can run 4,174 MHz just fine at 1.2V. Maybe even less; haven't tested yet, but don't really feel like making it super tight.

I've tried 4,200+ MHz on numerous occasions (before, during, after tightening timings, but it never POSTs. I don't know if it's a BIOS issue or what. My motherboard is rated up to 4,266 MHz max. I've tried VCCSA @ 1.3V before, but it didn't do anything.

I have VDIMM set to 1.63V right now, and yep, no errors at all right now, and I've already tested adding additional heat. Silicon lottery was on my side for this general as heck kit. I am using the Corsair Vengeance fan though (didn't come with the kit; had to order it separately).
Still waiting on confirmation as to whether it's safe to test 1.7V.


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> PPD is one of the three ways of power down, while tCKE=0 turns all power downs off.
> View attachment 2466769


My ASUS BIOS doesn't actually have a tXP or a PPD setting (or at least, I don't think I found one). However, I do have tCKE @ 0, so does that mean I already have the best setting? In ASRock TC, tXP shows up as 8. I used to be able to fiddle around with it using MemTweakIt, but after I reset the PC, the program just refuses to work, quoting "driver failed to initialize". Oh well.


----------



## munternet

Ichirou said:


> Those seem like high values. But I suppose it gives me a lot of room to experiment. Has there been any anecdotal evidence on how it affects IMC degradation?
> I'm aware that there's a sweet spot effect, so it'll probably involve a lot of testing for me to find the perfect value to stabilize tRCD+tRP and/or tRFC.
> 
> I messaged Buildzoid yesterday in regards to VCCSA; he explained that it is mostly only used for stabilizing high frequencies and higher rank counts and it does not really increase power draw, so he punches it at 1.4V. In my case, I can run 4,174 MHz just fine at 1.2V. Maybe even less; haven't tested yet, but don't really feel like making it super tight.
> 
> I've tried 4,200+ MHz on numerous occasions (before, during, after tightening timings, but it never POSTs. I don't know if it's a BIOS issue or what. My motherboard is rated up to 4,266 MHz max. I've tried VCCSA @ 1.3V before, but it didn't do anything.
> 
> I have VDIMM set to 1.63V right now, and yep, no errors at all right now, and I've already tested adding additional heat. Silicon lottery was on my side for this general as heck kit. I am using the Corsair Vengeance fan though (didn't come with the kit; had to order it separately).
> Still waiting on confirmation as to whether it's safe to test 1.7V.


1.65vdimm doesn't seem like a lot for some sticks if you are well cooled


----------



## TheBoom

itssladenlol said:


> This could explain my errors in TM5 Extreme also


It seems it was a combination of ppd and high trefi for me. Set trefi to 37060 instead of 65535 with ppd 0 and now it passes overnight.

Error 2 does say it’s likely a timeout/voltage issue or cells aren’t recharged in time.


----------



## TheBoom

Ichirou said:


> Those seem like high values. But I suppose it gives me a lot of room to experiment. Has there been any anecdotal evidence on how it affects IMC degradation?
> I'm aware that there's a sweet spot effect, so it'll probably involve a lot of testing for me to find the perfect value to stabilize tRCD+tRP and/or tRFC.
> 
> I messaged Buildzoid yesterday in regards to VCCSA; he explained that it is mostly only used for stabilizing high frequencies and higher rank counts and it does not really increase power draw, so he punches it at 1.4V. In my case, I can run 4,174 MHz just fine at 1.2V. Maybe even less; haven't tested yet, but don't really feel like making it super tight.
> 
> I've tried 4,200+ MHz on numerous occasions (before, during, after tightening timings, but it never POSTs. I don't know if it's a BIOS issue or what. My motherboard is rated up to 4,266 MHz max. I've tried VCCSA @ 1.3V before, but it didn't do anything.
> 
> I have VDIMM set to 1.63V right now, and yep, no errors at all right now, and I've already tested adding additional heat. Silicon lottery was on my side for this general as heck kit. I am using the Corsair Vengeance fan though (didn't come with the kit; had to order it separately).
> Still waiting on confirmation as to whether it's safe to test 1.7V.
> 
> My ASUS BIOS doesn't actually have a tXP or a PPD setting (or at least, I don't think I found one). However, I do have tCKE @ 0, so does that mean I already have the best setting? In ASRock TC, tXP shows up as 8. I used to be able to fiddle around with it using MemTweakIt, but after I reset the PC, the program just refuses to work, quoting "driver failed to initialize". Oh well.
> 
> View attachment 2466785


I can’t run anything more than 4137 on my prime a either.

My system won’t boot with anything lower than 1.35v IO and SA.

TXP and PPD were exposed with the latest z490 bioses. Not sure if they are available for z390s.


----------



## bxcounter

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know how to remove the G.Skill Trident Z Royal heat spreader safely?


Yes of course . Easiest method is to use fishing braid (i suggest 0.10mm-0.15mm diameter). Slowly cut through with zig-zag motion, basicaly using fishing braid as saw. It took me less then 5min per stick to remove heatspreaders.


----------



## munternet

I have the new 4266c17 sticks all set up now with the water cooling
I removed the heat spreaders with mild heat and a phone repair tool. Just gently lifting from the edge of the stick near the copper contacts, starting at one end. I hadn't seen @bxcounter 's method then 
I was not very impressed with the thermal contact area on the Ripjaws V version heat-spreaders, but I was happy to get the ones without the LEDs. There is a step which doesn't sit right pressed into the aluminium heat-sink
























.
After installing them I set vdimm to 1.45 and io and sa to 1.25 and just set 4000 as the frequency with the rest on auto and "hey presto" it booted up a 4000-15-15-15-36, off to a good start 







Because I'm lazy and impatient I tried booting my current daily 4500-18-19-19-36 and it ran smooth as, which was a bit of a surprise







Next I tried my saved 4400c17 profile from my old 3600-16-16-16-36 sticks which also runs well and passed some short tests and that's about where I'm up to now


----------



## munternet

At first glance it appears these 2x16GB sticks are stable or close to it at 4600-18-19-19-36
1.45 vdimm
1.42 vccio
1.37 vccsa
So they are definitely better than my old ram which hit the limit at 4500c18


----------



## itssladenlol

Time to have some fun


----------



## TheBoom

So I’ve found that with ppd 0, these sticks need higher trfc to stay stable, but I guess it’s worth the trade off since latency is still lower than with ppd auto.

300ns = errors or instant restart
320ns still stable without trefi maxed.

I wonder how much heat plays a part. I have some mini heat sinks that I stuck on which leads to a ~5c decrease, but they keep falling off after a while. Buildzoid did say that e-die is not temperature sensitive like most people claim.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> My ASUS BIOS doesn't actually have a tXP or a PPD setting (or at least, I don't think I found one). However, I do have tCKE @ 0, so does that mean I already have the best setting? In ASRock TC, tXP shows up as 8. I used to be able to fiddle around with it using MemTweakIt, but after I reset the PC, the program just refuses to work, quoting "driver failed to initialize". Oh well.
> 
> View attachment 2466785


tCKE=0 should be enough


----------



## Ichirou

TheBoom said:


> It seems it was a combination of ppd and high trefi for me. Set trefi to 37060 instead of 65535 with ppd 0 and now it passes overnight.
> 
> Error 2 does say it’s likely a timeout/voltage issue or cells aren’t recharged in time.


I never bothered maxing out tREFI simply because of the nature of how it works. If you look it up on Google, you'll see that it is potentially dangerous even if you can pass stability tests. Whether or not it concerns you is of course up to you, but I personally would rather not have data lost during the refresh delay.
If I'm not wrong, I believe tREFI is measured in milliseconds? Hence, 65,535 would equate to a 65.5 second wait. Very easy for data to get lost during that time if literally anything happens. I set mine to 3x JEDEC of my DRAM frequency (4,174 / 2 * 7.8 * 3, calculated as Frequency / 2 * JEDEC * 3).

I was always under the impression that singular errors in TM5 implied something wrong with my RAM settings and/or heat. However, I later found out that most of those errors were simply from a too high CPU cache clock. After I reduced my cache from 48x to 47x, they disappeared. Try reducing your CPU cache by a bit and seeing if that helps.


TheBoom said:


> I can’t run anything more than 4137 on my prime a either.
> 
> My system won’t boot with anything lower than 1.35v IO and SA.
> 
> TXP and PPD were exposed with the latest z490 bioses. Not sure if they are available for z390s.


Ah, so I'm not alone then. Perhaps it's just motherboard limitations. I managed to push the DRAM frequency higher with a BCLK overclock, but I can't go beyond around 4,185 or so, and anything between that and 4,174 can lead to TM5 errors.

I used to be under the impression that I needed 1.3V IO/SA to be stable, but after corruption and a PC reset, I reworked IO/SA from the ground up and managed to settle at some nice low numbers. You may want to consider dropping VCCSA, since you don't actually need a lot to boot up to ~4,200 MHz.

I don't really feel like changing my BIOS since I think I have a solid one already. Don't really want to "fix" what isn't broken. I can live without tXP/PPD, and as @OLDFATSHEEP mentioned, tCKE @ 0 is likely already enough.


TheBoom said:


> I wonder how much heat plays a part. I have some mini heat sinks that I stuck on which leads to a ~5c decrease, but they keep falling off after a while. Buildzoid did say that e-die is not temperature sensitive like most people claim.


From anecdotal experience, I highly suggest using a fan. It really does make a difference in helping TM5 pass through heat-related errors.
The Corsair Vengeance fan is only about $30 on Amazon. Worth it, even if it's a bit noisy at 100%. But you can't hear it if you set it around 70-80%.


----------



## Imprezzion

That's why I always test at 4.8 cache but daily run 5Ghz cache.

I also had to run higher tRFC with PPD 0 tXP 0. About 30 higher.


----------



## Arctucas

DELETED


----------



## Arctucas

DELETED


----------



## Arctucas

bxcounter said:


> Yes of course . Easiest method is to use fishing braid (i suggest 0.10mm-0.15mm diameter). Slowly cut through with zig-zag motion, basicaly using fishing braid as saw. It took me less then 5min per stick to remove heatspreaders.


What about DIMMs with LEDs, e,g, Trident Royal?

Are the LEDs not somehow 'wired' to the circuit board? Getting rid of those garish heatspreaders is only one step. Removing the unicorn puke LEDs is also essential.

Also, what would be a top line replacement heatspreader?



TheBoom said:


> I can’t run anything more than 4137 on my prime a either.
> 
> My system won’t boot with anything lower than 1.35v IO and SA.
> 
> TXP and PPD were exposed with the latest z490 bioses. Not sure if they are available for z390s.


I have tXP, but I do not see PPD. What else might it be called?


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> tCKE=0 should be enough


When I try 0, my UEFI changes it to AUTO. I see no way of actually setting it to 0.


----------



## TheBoom

Ichirou said:


> I used to be under the impression that I needed 1.3V IO/SA to be stable, but after corruption and a PC reset, I reworked IO/SA from the ground up and managed to settle at some nice low numbers. You may want to consider dropping VCCSA, since you don't actually need a lot to boot up to ~4,200 MHz.
> 
> From anecdotal experience, I highly suggest using a fan. It really does make a difference in helping TM5 pass through heat-related errors.
> The Corsair Vengeance fan is only about $30 on Amazon. Worth it, even if it's a bit noisy at 100%. But you can't hear it if you set it around 70-80%.


Last I tried lowering IO/SA system would restart on windows boot with anything lower. I might give it another shot after I stabilize my mem oc first. My cache doesn't seem to have any effect from 46x-48x, only at 45x I can lower vcore and vccsa/vccio a little.

Should have probably thought of a ram fan before I bought RGB sticks but a bit too late for that now.



Imprezzion said:


> That's why I always test at 4.8 cache but daily run 5Ghz cache.
> 
> I also had to run higher tRFC with PPD 0 tXP 0. About 30 higher.


Yeah ppd 0 seems to affect minimum trfc quite a bit, especially with rev e. I prefer to test with the settings I run daily to minimize any chance of instability afterwards.



Arctucas said:


> I have tXP, but I do not see PPD. What else might it be called?
> 
> 
> When I try 0, my UEFI changes it to AUTO. I see no way of actually setting it to 0.


Not too sure about z390, might be a little different in way of options.


----------



## Arctucas

Anyone with a Z390 Dark and using XOC BIOS know if and what PPD might be called, if it is visible?


----------



## fideb

Hi. I am kind of new to RAM overclocking. I managed to get my sticks to 3866MHz with good timings but i am now trying to to get the best possible timings for 3600 to compare, but i cant seem to find a list/cheat sheet of the timings minimum values anywhere. Right now i am testing tWR, IntegralFX lists 16/12/10 as values to test, after some googling i found someone saing 8 if the voltage is high enough, but i just tried tWR 6 (By changing tWRPRE in UEFI) and it seems stable?

So is there a minimum timing list somehwere that i just havent found? I am thinking something like this (Quick mockup of an example)

*Timing*​*Minimum value*​*Recommended value*​tCLNo minimumLower is bettertRRD_L4(?)6/6/4tRRD_S4(?)6/4/4tFAW16(?)24/16/16tRFCNo minimumLower is bettertCWL?tCL/tCL-2/tCL-2


----------



## TheBoom

fideb said:


> Hi. I am kind of new to RAM overclocking. I managed to get my sticks to 3866MHz with good timings but i am now trying to to get the best possible timings for 3600 to compare, but i cant seem to find a list/cheat sheet of the timings minimum values anywhere. Right now i am testing tWR, IntegralFX lists 16/12/10 as values to test, after some googling i found someone saing 8 if the voltage is high enough, but i just tried tWR 6 (By changing tWRPRE in UEFI) and it seems stable?
> 
> So is there a minimum timing list somehwere that i just havent found? I am thinking something like this (Quick mockup of an example)
> 
> *Timing*​*Minimum value*​*Recommended value*​tCLNo minimumLower is bettertRRD_L4(?)6/6/4tRRD_S4(?)6/4/4tFAW16(?)24/16/16tRFCNo minimumLower is bettertCWL?tCL/tCL-2/tCL-2











*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Hello one question I'm search my stability for my ddr4 4000 cl 16 t1... It's impossible for my low vccio and vccsa actually is in 1,15v an 1,40 v ram where is the safe voltage for vccio and vccsa for 24/7 thanks!!




www.overclock.net


----------



## fideb

TheBoom said:


> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> Hello one question I'm search my stability for my ddr4 4000 cl 16 t1... It's impossible for my low vccio and vccsa actually is in 1,15v an 1,40 v ram where is the safe voltage for vccio and vccsa for 24/7 thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thanks for the link. I was actually looking for that specific link earlier today but couldnt find it. But that still only recommends 9-16 in the case of tWR. In my case 9 is stable, but is 8 even better? Is there a minimum that is used regardless of how low it is set in UEFI?


----------



## Ichirou

fideb said:


> Hi. I am kind of new to RAM overclocking. I managed to get my sticks to 3866MHz with good timings but i am now trying to to get the best possible timings for 3600 to compare, but i cant seem to find a list/cheat sheet of the timings minimum values anywhere. Right now i am testing tWR, IntegralFX lists 16/12/10 as values to test, after some googling i found someone saing 8 if the voltage is high enough, but i just tried tWR 6 (By changing tWRPRE in UEFI) and it seems stable?
> 
> So is there a minimum timing list somehwere that i just havent found? I am thinking something like this (Quick mockup of an example)
> 
> *Timing*​*Minimum value*​*Recommended value*​tCLNo minimumLower is bettertRRD_L4(?)6/6/4tRRD_S4(?)6/4/4tFAW16(?)24/16/16tRFCNo minimumLower is bettertCWL?tCL/tCL-2/tCL-2


Funny; I made a little list of what timings _not _to over-tighten because they would be detrimental, based on personal experience and gathered evidence.
Of course, it's all YMMV, but I wouldn't push them any further as the difference is probably not worth it. You can try if you wish, though.

tWTR_S = min. 4 (reduces performance)
tWR = min. 12 (reduces performance)
tRTP = min. 8 (reduces performance)
tWRRD_dd = min. 4 (reduces performance and potential corruption)

tRFC = no minimum, but if it's too tight, your PC can freeze
tREFI = no maximum, but research how it works first since that will dictate how critical data loss is to you (if in doubt, 3x JEDEC is relatively safe)
tRCD/tRP = no minimum, but if it's too tight, you will need more IMC voltage (VCCIO/SoC) to avoid BSOD and potential corruption
(Tweak these after all other timings, regardless of what IntegralFX says. They can screw around with voltage requirements, making things much more complex.)

RTLs/IOLs are typically trained and tightened by the motherboard, so I wouldn't touch them unless you have a terrible one.
They're really volatile, and the same values don't always work later on and can prevent POSTing.

If you have single rank memory, you can set all of the _dr tertiaries to 0. If tCKE can go to 1, you can likely set it to 0.
Some people can manage to set the _dd tertiaries to 0 on Samsung B-die.

All other timings are pretty much however low you can go. As always, use AIDA64 to compare before and after.
If you want to make life easier, reduce cache clock/Infinity Fabric to reduce memory testing errors, and gradually raise it back up after you're done.

tCWL should be tCL-2 rounded up to the next even number.


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> At first glance it appears these 2x16GB sticks are stable or close to it at 4600-18-19-19-36
> 1.45 vdimm
> 1.42 vccio
> 1.37 vccsa
> So they are definitely better than my old ram which hit the limit at 4500c18
> View attachment 2466850


Seems like a good kit. Just ordered the same kit 30 minutes ago  Do they scale well with voltage ? Like 4600 17.17.17.37 @ 1.55 maby ?


----------



## Ichirou

Carillo said:


> Seems like a good kit. Just ordered the same kit 30 minutes ago  Do they scale well with voltage ? Like 4600 17.17.17.37 @ 1.55 maby ?


Most high frequency kits are Samsung/Micron, which all scale well with voltage. Pump 1.5-1.6V into it and see what you can achieve.
Just remember that a tighter CAS latency provides more performance than a higher frequency. Any frequency 4,000 MHz or higher is good enough for most people.


----------



## Betroz

Ichirou said:


> Just remember that a tighter CAS latency provides more performance than a higher frequency. Any frequency 4,000 MHz or higher is good enough for most people.


What you want is to find the balance between bandwith and latency. Do you have some benchmarks to show your findings?


----------



## Ichirou

Betroz said:


> What you want is to find the balance between bandwith and latency. Do you have some benchmarks to show your findings?


Not sure what it is you'd like to see, but below to the left is my latest AIDA64 benchmark. Done with a generic Micron B-die 4,000 MHz @ CL18 (4x16 GB) kit.
The right is an older benchmark with a higher tCL, higher cache, same subtimings, same frequency.
(I can't POST above 4,185 MHz or so, so you will have to reference somebody else's higher frequency AIDA64 results for comparison.)















If curious, below is my very first AIDA64 benchmark:


----------



## Carillo

Ichirou said:


> Not sure what it is you'd like to see, but below to the left is my latest AIDA64 benchmark. Done with a generic Micron B-die 4,000 MHz @ CL18 (4x16 GB) kit.
> The right is an older benchmark with a higher tCL, higher cache, same subtimings, same frequency.
> (I can't POST above 4,185 MHz or so, so you will have to reference somebody else's higher frequency AIDA64 results for comparison.)
> View attachment 2467004
> View attachment 2467006











Speed sometimes helps


----------



## Ichirou

Carillo said:


> View attachment 2467013
> 
> Speed sometimes helps


You're running 5,200 MHz @ CL17. Not comparable when the absolute latency is 6.54 ns as opposed to 7.19 ns. It's just faster overall.
(Keep in mind: My tREFI isn't maxed out and my settings are for a daily driver, not benchmarking. VDIMM is 1.63V.)

If you take a look at der8auer's scores for the 5,000 MHz @ CL18 kit (similar absolute latency, 7.20 ns), the numbers are a lot more tame.
(Sure, he tested the kit on an AMD platform, but the numbers shouldn't be too far off.)


----------



## Betroz

Ichirou said:


> Not sure what it is you'd like to see, but below to the left is my latest AIDA64 benchmark.


More like fps in games. AIDA64 is easy. My current daily settings :


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> sometimes


Hey 
You know, Windows has a nice build in screenshot tool


----------



## Ichirou

Betroz said:


> More like fps in games. AIDA64 is easy. My current daily settings :
> 
> View attachment 2467032


Oh, I didn't really bother to thoroughly test gaming since it isn't my focus. When I did some rudimentary benchmarks in Shadow of the Tomb Raider, nothing really differed at 1440p. The potential CPU FPS limit increased, but I am GPU bottlenecked. The only meaningful FPS improvement came from increasing my CPU core/cache clocks.


----------



## Carillo

Betroz said:


> Hey
> You know, Windows has a nice build in screenshot tool


Hey, you know when u pushing the limits so hard that a screenshot is enough to crash the system ?


----------



## Carillo

Ichirou said:


> You're running 5,200 MHz @ CL17. Not comparable when the absolute latency is 6.54 ns as opposed to 7.19 ns. It's just faster overall.
> (Keep in mind: My tREFI isn't maxed out and my settings are for a daily driver, not benchmarking. VDIMM is 1.63V.)
> 
> If you take a look at der8auer's scores for the 5,000 MHz @ CL18 kit (similar absolute latency, 7.20 ns), the numbers are a lot more tame.
> (Sure, he tested the kit on an AMD platform, but the numbers shouldn't be too far off.)


Ment like a joke  

Dayli settings 10900K 4800 cl17.17.17.34 1T









Dayli settings 8086K 4933 cl17.17.17.37 2T


----------



## fideb

I tried some more tWR stuff, these are my results, Read,Write,Copy and Latency are averages of 7 runs of aida, seems like lower is better for Copy but more tests may be needed 🤔


http://imgur.com/jydnPmu


tWR​tWRPRE​Aida Read AVG​Aida Write AVG​Aida Copy AVG​Aida Latency AVG​Stability​102951810531134690438.6Testmem5 and OCCT62551753530844722638.6OCCT+Games524----Error after 37min in OCCT423----Error after 1.5min in OCCT32251785531304739538.6Doesnt boot everytime


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> Not sure what it is you'd like to see, but below to the left is my latest AIDA64 benchmark. Done with a generic Micron B-die 4,000 MHz @ CL18 (4x16 GB) kit.
> The right is an older benchmark with a higher tCL, higher cache, same subtimings, same frequency.
> (I can't POST above 4,185 MHz or so, so you will have to reference somebody else's higher frequency AIDA64 results for comparison.)
> View attachment 2467004
> View attachment 2467006
> 
> If curious, below is my very first AIDA64 benchmark:
> View attachment 2467018


Speed + low latency = Win


----------



## Ichirou

fideb said:


> I tried some more tWR stuff, these are my results, Read,Write,Copy and Latency are averages of 7 runs of aida, seems like lower is better for Copy but more tests may be needed 🤔
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/jydnPmu
> 
> 
> tWR​tWRPRE​Aida Read AVG​Aida Write AVG​Aida Copy AVG​Aida Latency AVG​Stability​102951810531134690438.6Testmem5 and OCCT62551753530844722638.6OCCT+Games524----Error after 37min in OCCT423----Error after 1.5min in OCCT32251785531304739538.6Doesnt boot everytime


If you're testing games, the most adequate test to perform is a heat test. Leave a game constantly running at 90% or higher GPU load for at least three hours.
Most BSODs tend to occur within the first two hours while the heat builds up, so anything under three hours is not conclusive of stability.

If you don't have the time to perform that sort of a test, then don't bother with it until you've tightened a good number of different timings.
Take notes of the groups of timings you changed so you know how to undo and narrow the cause down if it fails.


----------



## fideb

Ichirou said:


> If you're testing games, the most adequate test to perform is a heat test. Leave a game constantly running at 90% or higher GPU load for at least three hours.
> Most BSODs tend to occur within the first two hours while the heat builds up, so anything under three hours is not conclusive of stability.
> 
> If you don't have the time to perform that sort of a test, then don't bother with it until you've tightened a good number of different timings.
> Take notes of the groups of timings you changed so you know how to undo and narrow the cause down if it fails.


I game quite a bit. I usually run 12 cycles of TM5 extreme over night then in the morning when i am going to the gym i run OCCT AVX/SSE for 1 hour, then at dinner i run the other OCCT test (AVX or SSE) for 1 hour, and then i game in the evening, if stable before going to bed i usually lower something and repeat the cycle. I did crash in Battlefield when i ran 3866MHz [email protected], most likely because of heat so i am currently testing 3600Mhz 15-15-15-32-1. Sometimes i also run the OCCT powertest with the GPU power maxed to test temps sometimes.

Edit: I also log stuff in a spreadsheet Overclock


----------



## Ichirou

fideb said:


> I game quite a bit. I usually run 12 cycles of TM5 extreme over night then in the morning when i am going to the gym i run OCCT AVX/SSE for 1 hour, then at dinner i run the other OCCT test (AVX or SSE) for 1 hour, and then i game in the evening, if stable before going to bed i usually lower something and repeat the cycle. I did crash in Battlefield when i ran 3866MHz [email protected], most likely because of heat so i am currently testing 3600Mhz 15-15-15-32-1. Sometimes i also run the OCCT powertest with the GPU power maxed to test temps sometimes.
> 
> Edit: I also log stuff in a spreadsheet Overclock


You don't really need to do that long of a TM5 test. Use @anta777 or @1usmus' config (search Google). They're built for testing RAM.

A lot of games clock down the GPU during cutscenes, loading, etc., so it is advisable to pick a game that is constantly at 90%+ load (if yours isn't already). You do not want soft resets during heat accumulation. A game that you can just leave open in borderless windowed is great to have it running in the background while allowing you to continue to use the PC.


----------



## fideb

Ichirou said:


> You don't really need to do that long of a TM5 test. Use @anta777 or @1usmus' config (search Google). They're built for testing RAM.
> 
> A lot of games clock down the GPU during cutscenes, loading, etc., so it is advisable to pick a game that is constantly at 90%+ load (if yours isn't already). You do not want soft resets during heat accumulation. A game that you can just leave open in borderless windowed is great to have it running in the background while allowing you to continue to use the PC.


I am using the anta777 Extreme config, i just changed it to run 12 times instead of 3 since i will be away from the computer for that long anyway, and i have actually gotten an error after 3 cycles a few times. When i do temp tests i close my door and window, max out the GPU power making the computer use 660W measured from the wall socket if testing with OCCT powertest or about 620W in a game. So i definately make sure it gets hot for extended periods of time.


----------



## Ichirou

fideb said:


> I am using the anta777 Extreme config, i just changed it to run 12 times instead of 3 since i will be away from the computer for that long anyway, and i have actually gotten an error after 3 cycles a few times. When i do temp tests i close my door and window, max out the GPU power making the computer use 660W measured from the wall socket if testing with OCCT powertest or about 620W in a game. So i definately make sure it gets hot for extended periods of time.


Very well, makes sense if you aren't home anyway. In my case, since I have to use the PC extensively as I work at home, I don't have the luxury of dedicating large chunks of time to testing.

Anecdotally, the only times I'd experience errors outside of the standard TM5 test is something that's innately wrong with a timing itself, and is erratic. I've also had BSODs after 5+ hours of gaming.
For example, tRFC can freeze your PC if it's too tight, and there's no predicting when. Overly tight tRCD/tRP can throw a BSOD (and/or corrupt the BIOS) at any time as well.

Aside from those two examples, I don't think TM5 has ever failed to catch errors that weren't related to heat. Hence the heat test.
There's also corrected WHEA errors to consider, but that's more of a low Vcore/high cache issue if anything. But it certainly does contribute to throwing memory errors.

At the end of the day, what matters most is your own confidence in your settings. Stability is up to the eye of the beholder.
For me, I'm content with the settings being "good enough" and then just using the PC normally with various programs to see how it fares. If it's stable for 2-4 weeks, I'm happy =)


----------



## fideb

Ichirou said:


> Very well, makes sense if you aren't home anyway. In my case, since I have to use the PC extensively as I work at home, I don't have the luxury of dedicating large chunks of time to testing.
> 
> Anecdotally, the only times I'd experience errors outside of the standard TM5 test is something that's innately wrong with a timing itself, and is erratic. I've also had BSODs after 5+ hours of gaming.
> For example, tRFC can freeze your PC if it's too tight, and there's no predicting when. tRCD/tRP can throw a BSOD (and temporarily corrupt the BIOS) at any time after a long period of use as well.
> 
> Aside from those two examples, I don't think TM5 has ever failed to catch errors that weren't related to heat. Hence the heat test.
> There's also corrected WHEA errors to consider, but that's more of a low Vcore/high cache issue if anything. But it certainly does contribute to throwing memory errors.
> 
> At the end of the day, what matters most is your own confidence in your settings. Stability is up to the eye of the beholder.
> For me, I'm content with the settings being "good enough" and then just using the PC normally with various programs to see how it fares. If it's stable for 2-4 weeks, I'm happy =)


I do the long tests when i sleep 😀
With tRRDL/S, tFAW and tWR set 12 cycles of TM5 Anta777 Extreme config takes about 7.5 hours for me, perfect while sleeping.
And i am not content with good enough, luckily i love spreadsheets and min-maxing stuff (Hence why im asking about the absolute minimum timings) so this stuff is perfect for me. Its not like im gonna notice the diffrence but knowing stuff is at absolute peak performance makes me happy 😄


----------



## ViTosS

Betroz said:


> More like fps in games. AIDA64 is easy. My current daily settings :
> 
> View attachment 2467032


Your latency seems a bit high? But I guess that's because of the 2ns more latency the 10900k has, right?

My daily settings below ([email protected] and more is totally viable in my kit, problem is that I can't keep it cool enough I think if I go over 1.50v+ in hot days) :











vDIMM 1.480v, IO 1.175v and SA 1.225v (had to bump from 1.45v to 1.48v to make it stable at 50-52c, 1.45v was stable only till 45c.


----------



## Betroz

ViTosS said:


> Your latency seems a bit high? But I guess that's because of the 2ns more latency the 10900k has, right?


Correct


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Your latency seems a bit high? But I guess that's because of the 2ns more latency the 10900k has, right?
> 
> My daily settings below ([email protected] and more is totally viable in my kit, problem is that I can't keep it cool enough I think if I go over 1.50v+ in hot days) :
> 
> 
> View attachment 2467070
> 
> 
> vDIMM 1.480v, IO 1.175v and SA 1.225v (had to bump from 1.45v to 1.48v to make it stable at 50-52c, 1.45v was stable only till 45c.


Isn't it because it's 2x16GB vs 2x8GB?


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> Seems like a good kit. Just ordered the same kit 30 minutes ago  Do they scale well with voltage ? Like 4600 17.17.17.37 @ 1.55 maby ?


It seems the ram density creates a bit of a wall as near as I can figure
They do scale with voltage quite well compared to my older sticks, which don't respond well to voltage at all, but voltage is still not the magic bullet
I tried going for straight 17s on the higher frequencies but I'm guessing the IMC is not up to it
These DR sticks are tough nuts to crack


----------



## LunaP

Had a question, currently been using the above DDR4 guide for tweaking primary / 2ndary timings, but when I get to tertiary, none of the names match what I have on my asus board, for both the R6E and R6EE, is there an updated guide or are they just renamed in an odd way ? ( for tertiary timing names only )

Also side question, does anyone here own the Rampage Encore board thats running their sticks at 4000? For w/e reason I can't in my current bios 0702, though unable to find enough information as to which bios is best for it aside from 0402 which is 5 revisions ago, could load at 4000 on my R6E and doubting the IMC since I can easily push 3800 at CL16 low voltage ( 3200 C14 kit Gskill ) Any tips greatly appreciated, have gone through the guide on setting VCCIO/VCCSA and vcore accordingly along w/ D voltage.


----------



## Ichirou

LunaP said:


> Had a question, currently been using the above DDR4 guide for tweaking primary / 2ndary timings, but when I get to tertiary, none of the names match what I have on my asus board, for both the R6E and R6EE, is there an updated guide or are they just renamed in an odd way ? ( for tertiary timing names only )
> 
> Also side question, does anyone here own the Rampage Encore board thats running their sticks at 4000? For w/e reason I can't in my current bios 0702, though unable to find enough information as to which bios is best for it aside from 0402 which is 5 revisions ago, could load at 4000 on my R6E and doubting the IMC since I can easily push 3800 at CL16 low voltage ( 3200 C14 kit Gskill ) Any tips greatly appreciated, have gone through the guide on setting VCCIO/VCCSA and vcore accordingly along w/ D voltage.


If a past BIOS worked, just go back to it, lol. And what are your voltages, anyhow?

If you should show a photo of your DRAM Timings page in the ASUS BIOS, we'll have a better idea of what we're looking at.


----------



## LunaP

Ichirou said:


> If a past BIOS worked, just go back to it, lol. And what are your voltages, anyhow?
> 
> If you should show a photo of your DRAM Timings page in the ASUS BIOS, we'll have a better idea of what we're looking at.


The board came with 0702, which is the latest, just reading up that certain bios' have issues and can't push as much.

attempted up to 1.5v on ram at auto timings which never needed the same previously, 19-23-23-45 booted once but had low read/write after that never booted, even lowered CPU clock and upped vcore to compensate in the event of. Hopefully someone w/ an Encore can chime in, else I'll just start going backwards down the Revision list.

Currently running 3800 (3733 @ blck 102) @ 1.44v ( can go lower on Volt )
15-17-17-36 ( since 15-16-16-36 presented a few errors in TM5)

Will post screenshots when I get back upstairs.

As for the tertiary question is there an updated guide or were those values only pertaining to specific motherboards? Since none of the Tertiary names exist on the Asus rampage boards apparently.


----Edit0000
@Ichirou current settings

3733 in frequency @ 102.1 BLCK in bios for 3812 freq which seems to only report properly in CPU-Z (Cpu/mem speed) oddly (AIDA is up to date) just need to twaek tWR atm along with tRFC (probably another 10 ) but thats about it. Getting the same read/write/copy as I did w/ 3600 when I tweaked everything odwn, just higher latency on the 3800 so not sure if 3600 was a stopping point since I felt 3800 would boost copy over 100 and red around 105 unless I'm missing something. 
15-16-16-36 did work but gave errors in TM5, pretty sure it needs more voltage which I'm not sure the max this kit can do since its rated at [email protected] 3200 C14












Here's a shot of the completed 3600 set. As you can see Latency was a smidge lower, however for the 3800 its 57 no matter matter how many times I run it.


----------



## Ichirou

LunaP said:


> The board came with 0702, which is the latest, just reading up that certain bios' have issues and can't push as much.
> 
> attempted up to 1.5v on ram at auto timings which never needed the same previously, 19-23-23-45 booted once but had low read/write after that never booted, even lowered CPU clock and upped vcore to compensate in the event of. Hopefully someone w/ an Encore can chime in, else I'll just start going backwards down the Revision list.
> 
> Currently running 3800 (3733 @ blck 102) @ 1.44v ( can go lower on Volt )
> 15-17-17-36 ( since 15-16-16-36 presented a few errors in TM5)
> 
> Will post screenshots when I get back upstairs.
> 
> As for the tertiary question is there an updated guide or were those values only pertaining to specific motherboards? Since none of the Tertiary names exist on the Asus rampage boards apparently.
> 
> 
> ----Edit0000
> @Ichirou current settings
> 
> 3733 in frequency @ 102.1 BLCK in bios for 3812 freq which seems to only report properly in CPU-Z (Cpu/mem speed) oddly (AIDA is up to date) just need to twaek tWR atm along with tRFC (probably another 10 ) but thats about it. Getting the same read/write/copy as I did w/ 3600 when I tweaked everything odwn, just higher latency on the 3800 so not sure if 3600 was a stopping point since I felt 3800 would boost copy over 100 and red around 105 unless I'm missing something.
> 15-16-16-36 did work but gave errors in TM5, pretty sure it needs more voltage which I'm not sure the max this kit can do since its rated at [email protected] 3200 C14
> 
> View attachment 2467104
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a shot of the completed 3600 set. As you can see Latency was a smidge lower, however for the 3800 its 57 no matter matter how many times I run it.
> 
> View attachment 2467103


The default TM5 profile is no longer considered adequate for the purpose of memory testing. Use @anta777 or @1usmus' profile instead.
If that is Samsung B-die, you can pump up to 1.6V VDIMM just fine.

As for why you're getting better AIDA64 numbers at 3,600 MHz, if you already ran it without any background processes, then it's probably because the other primaries are lower.
Also, tRRD_L shouldn't be lower than 4; some ASUS guy (Raja?) wrote about how it's detrimental because of how it works.

As for the tertiaries, they definitely don't look standard. It might be because it's a quad channel system compared to a dual channel, which is what most use.
Somebody else will have to fill you in on those timings.


----------



## LunaP

Ichirou said:


> The default TM5 profile is no longer considered adequate for the purpose of memory testing. Use @anta777 or @1usmus' profile instead.
> If that is Samsung B-die, you can pump up to 1.6V VDIMM just fine.
> 
> As for why you're getting better AIDA64 numbers at 3,600 MHz, if you already ran it without any background processes, then it's probably because the other primaries are lower.
> Also, tRRD_L shouldn't be lower than 4; some ASUS guy (Raja?) wrote about how it's detrimental because of how it works.
> 
> As for the tertiaries, they definitely don't look standard. It might be because it's a quad channel system compared to a dual channel, which is what most use.
> Somebody else will have to fill you in on those timings.


Ah those speeds were due to Auto, I just set them accordingly, and will reload the profile, as for aida64, I was under the impression ( since I've seen it in the past ) that higher frequency = more bandwidth ( despite the latency change ) this is the first time I've seen the numbers stay the same though w/o increasing. Even at 15-16-16-36 ( which ran just errored on TM5) it was the same just a diff in latency is all. Though guessing bumping dram voltage would remove the errors.

Also noted on the dual channel, any chance theres a guide for quad or just simply ignore the tertiary ?


----edit---

Bumped tRRD_L up to 6 (was 3) and tRRD down to 4 ( was 7 ) latency dropped about .5 which is a + so thanks for pointing that out there.


----------



## Ichirou

LunaP said:


> Ah those speeds were due to Auto, I just set them accordingly, and will reload the profile, as for aida64, I was under the impression ( since I've seen it in the past ) that higher frequency = more bandwidth ( despite the latency change ) this is the first time I've seen the numbers stay the same though w/o increasing. Even at 15-16-16-36 ( which ran just errored on TM5) it was the same just a diff in latency is all. Though guessing bumping dram voltage would remove the errors.
> 
> Also noted on the dual channel, any chance theres a guide for quad or just simply ignore the tertiary ?
> 
> 
> ----edit---
> 
> Bumped tRRD_L up to 6 (was 3) and tRRD down to 4 ( was 7 ) latency dropped about .5 which is a + so thanks for pointing that out there.


If frequency increases but RWC bandwidth more or less stays the same, it is a timings issue. If all timings are held constant, a frequency increase should always result in a RWC bandwidth increase. On the other hand, if frequency is held constant but CAS latency (tCL/tCAS) is decreased, it will lower latency and also modestly raise RWC bandwidth.

The tertiaries probably follow the same general rule of "as tight as possible". It's just that because of the unorthodox naming, it'll be harder for you to find information on them. Just tighten each one of them one by one, making sure to check AIDA64 each time and also the secondaries in case some tertiaries are linked to them.


----------



## LunaP

Ichirou said:


> If frequency increases but RWC bandwidth more or less stays the same, it is a timings issue. If all timings are held constant, a frequency increase should always result in a RWC bandwidth increase. On the other hand, if frequency is held constant but CAS latency (tCL/tCAS) is decreased, it will also raise RWC bandwidth and lower latency.
> 
> The tertiaries probably follow the same general rule of "as tight as possible". It's just that because of the unorthodox naming, it'll be harder for you to find information on them. Just tighten each one of them one by one, making sure to check AIDA64 each time and also the secondaries in case some tertiaries are linked to them.


Right, I initially started at higher timings and only set CL to 18 and left the rest of the primaries on auto, after reboot it set tRCD/tRP to 17 and tRAS to 36 so started to adjust down from there, though never noted an increaes or decrease in bandwidth at 3800 vs 3600 oddly

As for the kit I'm using here's the link F4-3200C14Q2-128GTZR-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. just wasn't able to find any concrete infor on the actual voltage other than ddr4 standard with intel stating 1.5 as max for safest, though you're mentioning up to 1.6v so definitely wanted to confirm, and iirc 55C is what I should avoid hitting on RAM right?


----------



## Ichirou

LunaP said:


> Right, I initially started at higher timings and only set CL to 18 and left the rest of the primaries on auto, after reboot it set tRCD/tRP to 17 and tRAS to 36 so started to adjust down from there, though never noted an increaes or decrease in bandwidth at 3800 vs 3600 oddly
> 
> As for the kit I'm using here's the link F4-3200C14Q2-128GTZR-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. just wasn't able to find any concrete infor on the actual voltage other than ddr4 standard with intel stating 1.5 as max for safest, though you're mentioning up to 1.6v so definitely wanted to confirm, and iirc 55C is what I should avoid hitting on RAM right?


Yeah, 14 across the board is indicative of Samsung B-Die. Just throw 1.6V at it and see what you can achieve. If you are truly worried, you can cap it off at 1.5V, but I personally wouldn't be.
There's no real target for temperature as kits perform differently; it's just that they're more prone to throwing errors if they get too hot. If you don't get any errors, there is no issue.
However, it is important to do a GPU heat test as well. Leave a game that forces the GPU to run at at least 90% load for at least three hours.
If in doubt, you can custom mod some fans or buy the $30 Corsair Vengeance fan off of Amazon. It should work just fine as there is a lot of vertical clearance.


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> It seems the ram density creates a bit of a wall as near as I can figure
> They do scale with voltage quite well compared to my older sticks, which don't respond well to voltage at all, but voltage is still not the magic bullet
> I tried going for straight 17s on the higher frequencies but I'm guessing the IMC is not up to it
> These DR sticks are tough nuts to crack


So 4600 straight 17 was a no-go ?How high did you go on vdimm, IO and SA ? Your IO/SA voltage seemed reasonable 4600. Luumi has a great video about this sticks on youtube


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> So 4600 straight 17 was a no-go ?How high did you go on vdimm, IO and SA ? Your IO/SA voltage seemed reasonable 4600. Luumi has a great video about this sticks on youtube


Yes he got 4700 out of them if I remember correctly, but with loose timings and no tweaked RTL/IOL. 4400 to 4533 range with tighter timings is the way to go I think.


----------



## Carillo

Betroz said:


> Yes he got 4700 out of them if I remember correctly, but with loose timings and no tweaked RTL/IOL. 4400 to 4533 range with tighter timings is the way to go I think.


Anyway, can't wait receive them on tuesday. Will be interesting to see how far it's possible to push them


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> Will be interesting to see how far it's possible to push them


I bet. Having a good IMC is important as you know for pushing past 4500 with DR sticks


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> So 4600 straight 17 was a no-go ?How high did you go on vdimm, IO and SA ? Your IO/SA voltage seemed reasonable 4600. Luumi has a great video about this sticks on youtube


I think I tried up to:
1.50 vccio
1.45 vccsa
1.60 vdimm
It didn't seem to make too much of a difference but at least it wasn't causing errors wholesale
4500 and up to 4600 still didn't like anything under 18-19-19-36-2 but there might be a combination that makes it work
I will try some different combinations over the coming weeks 
I will watch Luumi's video again for some ideas and inspiration


----------



## Ichirou

Minor discovery: tWTR_S should not be lower than 4, as it will raise latency instead. AIDA64 proof is below; the left is an ideal tWTR_S @ 4 result (which can be recreated easily), while the right is the best after 30 runs of tWTR_S @ 2 (never managed to hit 43.6 ns). All other timings are untouched.

This is similar to my findings of tWRRD_dd, which I could pull to the ground (instead of 4), but would incur a performance penalty and other strange lag quirks during PC use. Hope this can be useful reference to some of you.


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> I think I tried up to:
> 1.50 vccio
> 1.45 vccsa
> 1.60 vdimm
> It didn't seem to make too much of a difference but at least it wasn't causing errors wholesale
> 4500 and up to 4600 still didn't like anything under 18-19-19-36-2 but there might be a combination that makes it work
> I will try some different combinations over the coming weeks
> I will watch Luumi's video again for some ideas and inspiration


Ok. I know my IMC is pretty strong, at least with single ranks, so it will be fun to see if 4600 plus is possible with this kit. But i don't expect it  Hopefully arriving on tuesday, so guess i just have to wait


----------



## TheBoom

Is 42-45ns expected latency for rev-e running at 4137 17-19-19-40? They seem to have a wall for trcd with higher frequencies as well as trfc/trefi.

The other timings don’t seem to make that much of a difference to latency in my testing and they cap out pretty high as well.


----------



## Ichirou

TheBoom said:


> Is 42-45ns expected latency for rev-e running at 4137 17-19-19-40? They seem to have a wall for trcd with higher frequencies as well as trfc/trefi.
> 
> The other timings don’t seem to make that much of a difference to latency in my testing and they cap out pretty high as well.


Only Samsung B-die manages to reach below 40 ns. It's normal.

And what is your VCCIO set to, out of curiosity? I'm trying to pull down the other primaries for my Micron kit as well, but I get delayed BSODs (after lots of hours of use).


----------



## TheBoom

Ichirou said:


> Only Samsung B-die manages to reach below 40 ns. It's normal.
> 
> And what is your VCCIO set to, out of curiosity? I'm trying to pull down the other primaries for my Micron kit as well, but I get delayed BSODs (after lots of hours of use).


Right now 1.38v for both just for memory testing, I will set them correctly once the memory is stable. I don't expect that much of a voltage drop though tbh, the chip is a dud. Probably should settle around 1.34v, last I remembered 1.32v wouldn't go past windows boot.


----------



## Ichirou

TheBoom said:


> Right now 1.38v for both just for memory testing, I will set them correctly once the memory is stable. I don't expect that much of a voltage drop though tbh, the chip is a dud. Probably should settle around 1.34v, last I remembered 1.32v wouldn't go past windows boot.


Oh, so you ramped up VCCIO to 1.38V just to get tRCD+tRP+tRAS working, and haven't bothered to tighten it yet. Do keep me posted then, since I'd like to find an optimal VCCIO to try as well.

Have you experienced any sweet spot issues with VCCIO? Or has it worked for the most part so far just setting VCCIO that high?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Only Samsung B-die manages to reach below 40 ns. It's normal.


Nah


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Nah
> 
> View attachment 2467175
> 
> 
> View attachment 2467176


That's strange; how did you manage that? Is it just from the higher frequency? Or is it the 5.1 GHz cache?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> Ok. I know my IMC is pretty strong, at least with single ranks, so it will be fun to see if 4600 plus is possible with this kit. But i don't expect it  Hopefully arriving on tuesday, so guess i just have to wait


Previously 4266C17D-32GTRS can reach 4700 16-17-28-280 with the VDimm around 1.65V. At 4600 16-17-280 the best VDimm was around 1.55V with tightened timings and MT7.0 passed.

Just might come up with some training issues (err 55) and need some tweaks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> That's strange; how did you manage that? Is it just from the higher frequency? Or is it the 5.1 GHz cache?


Tighten primary timings+RFC+RTL+IOL, PPD=0, and try to get freq higher than 4533.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Tighten primary timings+RFC+RTL+IOL, PPD=0, and try to get freq higher than 4533.


Ah, so once you pass the 4,500 MHz threshold, the AIDA latency can go below 40 ns? That's good to know. The timings didn't seem all that spectacular (pretty standard Micron primaries), so it puzzled me a bit.


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 4266C17D-32GTRS


Is this the best 16 GB Samsung B-die kit to fiddle around with? There are some other G.Skill kits in the 4,000 range, but I'm not sure which one performs better. Any luck with CL15 or lower?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Ah, so once you pass the 4,500 MHz threshold, the AIDA latency can go below 40 ns? That's good to know. The timings didn't seem all that spectacular (pretty standard Micron primaries), so it puzzled me a bit.
> 
> Is this the best 16 GB Samsung B-die kit to fiddle around with? There are some other G.Skill kits in the 4,000 range, but I'm not sure which one performs better. Any luck with CL15 or lower?


Yes, the key is mostly the RTL and power-down.

The best kit I know so far is the 3800C14D-32GTZN


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yes, the key is mostly the RTL and power-down.
> 
> The best kit I know so far is the 3800C14D-32GTZN


I'm aware of that kit as well, but haven't found anyone reporting overclock results for it. It seems most people just throw it onto an AMD system and call it a day.

It would be nice to see whether anyone has managed to push it to 4,000 MHz+.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> I'm aware of that kit as well, but haven't found anyone reporting overclock results for it. It seems most people just throw it onto an AMD system and call it a day.
> 
> It would be nice to see whether anyone has managed to push it to 4,000 MHz+.


4600 16-17 1.6V should be easy with that kit


----------



## Carillo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Previously 4266C17D-32GTRS can reach 4700 16-17-28-280 with the VDimm around 1.65V. At 4600 16-17-280 the best VDimm was around 1.55V with tightened timings and MT7.0 passed.
> 
> Just might come up with some training issues (err 55) and need some tweaks.


Interesting. My Patriot Vipers is water cooled, and can do up to 1.67V HCI. Over that is benchmarking stability. Hope this kit can do 1.65 24/7 on water  BTW, if anyone wants a very well binned Viper kit, ( the kit that can do 5000 cl17.17.17.37) DM me. I can send it anywhere


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 4600 16-17 1.6V should be easy with that kit


Now I feel tempted to give it a shot, if only there was a way for me to sell my old RAM sticks, lol. No point having multiple kits.

Also, my ASUS Prime Z390-A has issues POSTing over 4,200 MHz. Not sure if it's just my kit, or a BIOS issue. Doesn't seem to be a VCCSA issue. It's probably because it's a mid-tier motherboard instead of a Rampage. I think somebody else here mentioned a similar situation.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Now I feel tempted to give it a shot, if only there was a way for me to sell my old RAM sticks, lol. No point having multiple kits.
> 
> Also, my ASUS Prime Z390-A has issues POSTing over 4,200 MHz. Not sure if it's just my kit, or a BIOS issue. Doesn't seem to be a VCCSA issue. It's probably because it's a mid-tier motherboard instead of a Rampage. I think somebody else here mentioned a similar situation.


Asus Z390s are T-Topology boards. You have to install 4 dimms to get higher than 4200. I only managed to get 4500 with 4 bdie sticks on M11H. If with 2 dimms, the max I've got on M11H was 4200.

MSI Z390i should be a good choice if you would look at other z390 boards.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Asus Z390s are T-Topology boards. You have to install 4 dimms to get higher than 4200. I only managed to get 4500 with 4 bdie sticks on M11H. If with 2 dimms, the max I've got on M11H was 4200.
> 
> MSI Z390i should be a good choice if you would look at other z390 boards.


Well that's ironic; I'm already using four DIMMs on it right now, all from the same batch (4x16 GB). Micron B-die.
It simply refuses to POST above 4,190 MHz or so. Not really sure why. I have no choice but to just keep tightening tCL instead.
Any idea for what to try?









On a side note, I found this off of Google; it's an old thread that details something similar (although the thread lead nowhere):








Memory controller sucks on new i9 9900K!


Hello, I just upgraded from a i7 8700K to the i9 9900K and I'm very much regretting it. My overclock was stable with the i7. Now my system won't make it past POST with the newly inserted i9. The boot process always halts at debug code 61 which is "NVRAM Initialization" according to the manual...




www.overclock.net





It seems that certain CPUs could just fail to allow the RAM to go higher.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Well that's ironic; I'm using four DIMMs on it right now, all from the same batch (4x16 GB). Micron B-die.
> It simply refuses to POST above 4,190 MHz or so. Not really sure why. I have no choice but to just keep tightening tCL instead.
> 
> View attachment 2467202


Ummm, maybe try to play with RTLs. That's the only thing I can come up with. Also, increase VccIO should help a lot. For a reference, 4 Samsung bdies running at 4300 17-18-36 needs around 1.4V IO and SA.

For SR micron 16GB with 4 DIMM config you can try ODT 80-40-48 (WR-PARK-NOM). DLLBwEn=1 might also help.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Ummm, maybe try to play with RTLs. That's the only thing I can come up with. Also, increase VccIO should help a lot. For a reference, 4 Samsung bdies running at 4300 17-18-36 needs around 1.4V IO and SA.
> 
> For SR micron 16GB with 4 DIMM config you can try ODT 80-40-48 (WR-PARK-NOM). DLLBwEn=1 might also help.











Memory controller sucks on new i9 9900K!


You should never have those on auto when overclocking RAM. Auto typically runs them way too hot, often 1.3v or more for 3200MHz RAM when 1.15v or so is usually stable. At your frequency VCCIO and VCCSA could be much higher. You should set them manually to the lowest stable voltage as one of...




www.overclock.net




^ If you take a look at that specific post and a few posts down (and the next page), it seems that apparently, in order to break the barrier, I have to set an atrociously high IMC voltage.
So as you say, perhaps it's really just that my IO/SA is too low (1.23V/1.25V respectively)

What is the point of high frequency RAM then, if they need to run at high IO/SA voltages that can potentially kill the CPU? That truly baffles me.

----------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, what are those settings you told me to adjust? I've never seen them before.
I can't touch my RTLs or IOLs pretty much at all, or I risk potentially failed POSTs. My motherboard already tightens them as low as they can go, and the minimums fluctuate every so often. Thus, they're just on Auto right now.

Perhaps I'll leave IO/SA on Auto _just _to see how much it requires for the system to POST.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Memory controller sucks on new i9 9900K!
> 
> 
> You should never have those on auto when overclocking RAM. Auto typically runs them way too hot, often 1.3v or more for 3200MHz RAM when 1.15v or so is usually stable. At your frequency VCCIO and VCCSA could be much higher. You should set them manually to the lowest stable voltage as one of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ If you take a look at that specific post and a few posts down, it seems that apparently, in order to break the barrier, I have to set an atrociously high IMC voltage.
> So as you say, perhaps it's really just that my IO/SA is too low (1.23V/1.25V respectively)
> 
> What is the point of high frequency RAM then, if they need to run at high IO/SA voltages that can potentially kill the CPU? That truly baffles me.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Anyway, what are those settings you told me to adjust? I've never seen them before.
> I can't touch my RTLs or IOLs pretty much at all, or I risk potentially failed POSTs. My motherboard already tightens them as low as they can go, and the minimums fluctuate every so often.
> 
> Perhaps I'll leave IO/SA on Auto _just _to see how much it requires for the system to POST.


They need to be set according to specific rigs, can just play with them.

RTLs need to be exact to post. Too high IO/SA sometimes might not help.

Also you can arrange your sticks according to their qualities: best-worse-better-worst (A1-A2-B1-B2)


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> They need to be set according to specific rigs, can just play with them.
> 
> RTLs need to be exact to post. Too high IO/SA sometimes might not help.
> 
> Also you can arrange your sticks according to their qualities: best-worse-better-worst (A1-A2-B1-B2)


No I mean, what are those settings you are asking me to change, exactly? I've never seen them before. Are they part of the DRAM Timings section (I'm on an ASUS)?

Wouldn't the RTLs set at Auto already fulfill that requirement? Or can there be potentially bad training?
My IO/SA are relatively low right now, so if you have a suggestion for what I should try running them at, that would be nice.

Not sure how I can figure out which stick is better or worse. Should I just randomly plug them in and test?









Memory controller sucks on new i9 9900K!


What's even funnier is this. The OP posted a thread over on reddit about the same thing. https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/b18oaw/absolutely_awful_memory_controller_on_new_i9_9900k/ If you search his comment history though, you'll see that he has a "Bachelor's Degree in Computer...




www.overclock.net




^ This post was also insightful. Apparently it's really just a lottery, though sometimes a BIOS change can help.









Memory controller sucks on new i9 9900K!


what bios are you on.. did you use XMP? ? 1105 BIOS. I did not use XMP, just set all the timmings and volts manually.




www.overclock.net




^ And this one implies a VCCIO sweet spot issue, as you mentioned. I guess I'll have to set it to Auto just to see if it'll POST.


----------



## LunaP

Oh right question on the uh Etreme1 by @anta777 , is there a length it should run for or does it eventually end? going on almost 2 hours now and still on cycle 1, is it like HCI and just keeps going till u tell it to stop?


----------



## Ichirou

LunaP said:


> Oh right question on the uh Etreme1 by @anta777 , is there a length it should run for or does it eventually end? going on almost 2 hours now and still on cycle 1, is it like HCI and just keeps going till u tell it to stop?


anta777's config is kind of long indeed; it's part of the reason why I just stick with 1usmus' config and do normal usage tests instead once it completes.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Not sure how I can figure out which stick is better or worse. Should I just randomly plug them in and test?


They are all under timing config.

Can use my suggestions as initial values, and tune up and down.


----------



## Betroz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Asus Z390s are T-Topology boards. You have to install 4 dimms to get higher than 4200. I only managed to get 4500 with 4 bdie sticks on M11H. If with 2 dimms, the max I've got on M11H was 4200.


The Z390 Apex _should_ be able to do better though?


----------



## TheBoom

Ichirou said:


> Oh, so you ramped up VCCIO to 1.38V just to get tRCD+tRP+tRAS working, and haven't bothered to tighten it yet. Do keep me posted then, since I'd like to find an optimal VCCIO to try as well.
> 
> Have you experienced any sweet spot issues with VCCIO? Or has it worked for the most part so far just setting VCCIO that high?


Yep there is definitely a sweet spot, but it only shows when doing imc or combined stability tests.

I’ve found linpack the easiest as the closer you get to the sweet spot the more residuals match without getting WHEA errors as well.

If you see the official page for the Prime A they do mention up to 4200mhz memory. Could be a bios limitation.

As for RTL/IOLs someone just posted a nice guide last week here on how to properly train them. Seems to work for me.

Set RTL init to CLx2 + 37 and IOL inits to 4. IOL offset to 21.Your IOLs should settle around 7-8. If they don’t, set them manually and subtract the same difference from the corresponding RTL.


----------



## LunaP

Ok this is weird, if I use BLCK OC and set mine over BLCK 105 I can easily push 3800 freq to over 4000 w/ under 1.46v and timings 16-17-17-36, yet if I set it manually to 4000 base w/ 0 blck it won't boot even if I go up to 1.6v and VCCIO/VCSAA ( up to 1.3 each ), also note 3800 only requires VCCIO @ 1v and VCCSA at .800 Only had to bump VCCIO to 1.1 for 31 cache which I took back down to test with in the event it was voltage related. Tossing voltage at the CPU also doesn't help, so thinking its def a bios issue.


----------



## munternet

I think this is about as far as I can push these sticks F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
I've tried everything I can think of but I just get BSOD or no POST if I push anything further
Ran some GSAT and TM5 Extreme and Played some BFV
Going to run it for a daily for a while 

4600-18-19-19-36-2
vdimm 1.45
vccio 1.42
vccsa 1.47


----------



## TheBoom

munternet said:


> I think this is about as far as I can push these sticks F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
> I've tried everything I can think of but I just get BSOD or no POST if I push anything further
> Ran some GSAT and TM5 Extreme and Played some BFV
> Going to run it for a daily for a while
> 
> 4600-18-19-19-36-2
> vdimm 1.45
> vccio 1.42
> vccsa 1.47
> View attachment 2467233


Dayum if I ran my IO and SA that high my chip would probably fry itself getting past windows.


----------



## Imprezzion

TheBoom said:


> Dayum if I ran my IO and SA that high my chip would probably fry itself getting past windows.


Nah, i've run way higher then that for benches / short tests. 1.55v SA and 1.50v IO survived just fine for several hours. Not that I'd recommend doing it but it won't cause immediate damage.


----------



## munternet

TheBoom said:


> Dayum if I ran my IO and SA that high my chip would probably fry itself getting past windows.


I'm pretty confident those voltages are fine for z490. Well below what a few other people run 24/7
Luumi took it to the limit and killed a CPU @ 1.65 sa or io according to this 



It's worth watching right through if you haven't seen it


----------



## TheBoom

munternet said:


> I'm pretty confident those voltages are fine for z490. Well below what a few other people run 24/7
> Luumi took it to the limit and killed a CPU @ 1.65 sa or io according to this
> 
> 
> 
> It's worth watching right through if you haven't seen it


I meant literally, temps wise. I have a dud so I have to run it at 1.35vcore load to be stable at 5.0ghz. With IO and SA at 1.4v the chip peaks over 90c in normal gaming use with some avx instructions.

Also we have no idea what kind of long term degradation these voltages might cause to z490 yet, so that’s another factor.

I remember reading somewhere that earlier skylake architectures were prone to degradation and motherboard traces getting damaged by imc voltages in excess of 1.35v.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Ummm, maybe try to play with RTLs. That's the only thing I can come up with. Also, increase VccIO should help a lot. For a reference, 4 Samsung bdies running at 4300 17-18-36 needs around 1.4V IO and SA.
> 
> For SR micron 16GB with 4 DIMM config you can try ODT 80-40-48 (WR-PARK-NOM). DLLBwEn=1 might also help.


Well, I tried leaving VCCIO on Auto, and it didn't help. I couldn't find the "ODT" setting, but I did test out DLLBEWN a little, fiddling with values up to 4, and I can't say that I had great results.
The RAM started feeding the PC bad checksum data... Very scary really; looked like data was getting corrupted on boot. Sure, it allowed certain configs to boot, but I can't say it was worth it.
That is definitely a "tweak at your own risk" setting that I wouldn't recommend anyone changing, lol.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> The Z390 Apex _should_ be able to do better though?


Should be. I only tried M11 Gene. With 16GB SR micron I managed to reach 4800 18-24-42. M11 Apex should be similar.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Well, I tried leaving VCCIO on Auto, and it didn't help. I couldn't find the "ODT" setting, but I did test out DLLBEWN a little, fiddling with values up to 4, and I can't say that I had great results.
> The RAM started feeding the PC bad checksum data... Very scary really; looked like data was getting corrupted on boot. Sure, it allowed certain configs to boot, but I can't say it was worth it.
> That is definitely a "tweak at your own risk" setting that I wouldn't recommend anyone changing, lol.


ODT is under timing config -> skew control, but I dunno if non-ROGs have such options.

This section is even more tricky. Sometimes you can only reset the bios if the skew control goes wrong.


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> I think this is about as far as I can push these sticks F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
> I've tried everything I can think of but I just get BSOD or no POST if I push anything further
> Ran some GSAT and TM5 Extreme and Played some BFV
> Going to run it for a daily for a while
> 
> 4600-18-19-19-36-2
> vdimm 1.45
> vccio 1.42
> vccsa 1.47
> View attachment 2467233


You got you self som nice settings there. Your sticks are on water right ? What temps do you see ? And what was your IMC able to push (speed) with single rank sticks ?

EDIT: Did you try IOL 7 ? 66/66 7/7 ?


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> You got you self som nice settings there. Your sticks are on water right ? What temps do you see ? And what was your IMC able to push (speed) with single rank sticks ?
> 
> EDIT: Did you try IOL 7 ? 66/66 7/7 ?


Thanks mate
Yeah, they are on water, but I mightn't have needed to with 1.45 vdimm, hard to say.
I can check the temps with TM5 running later when I finish work if you want.
I don't have any decent single rank sticks since I got this setup so I don't know but I actually thought of buying some just to test. Don't tell the wife 
Hit a wall with RTLs. Was getting BSOD and tried 1.45v/1.5v io/sa but didn't go higher since it's a daily.

Edit:
Home from work now 
Ran TM5 Extreme for 5 mins to let the ram temps settle. This is about as hot as they ever get
T-sensor is the coolant temp which will maybe see 32°c mid summer

I should also mention the skew values I'm using now
RTT WR = 120
RTT PARK = 48
RTT NOM = 0


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> Thanks mate
> Yeah, they are on water, but I mightn't have needed to with 1.45 vdimm, hard to say.
> I can check the temps with TM5 running later when I finish work if you want.
> I don't have any decent single rank sticks since I got this setup so I don't know but I actually thought of buying some just to test. Don't tell the wife
> Hit a wall with RTLs. Was getting BSOD and tried 1.45v/1.5v io/sa but didn't go higher since it's a daily.
> 
> Edit:
> Home from work now
> Ran TM5 Extreme for 5 mins to let the ram temps settle. This is about as hot as they ever get
> T-sensor is the coolant temp which will maybe see 32°c mid summer
> 
> I should also mention the skew values I'm using now
> RTT WR = 120
> RTT PARK = 48
> RTT NOM = 0
> 
> View attachment 2467324


Nice. Thanks. Dancop recommended me using bios 0804 ( Apex Xii) for Dual Rank . I will report back when I get my kit. Hope they can do 4800 cl14.13.13.28 @ 2.1 😜


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> Nice. Thanks. Dancop recommended me using bios 0804 ( Apex Xii) for Dual Rank . I will report back when I get my kit. Hope they can do 4800 cl14.13.13.28 @ 2.1 😜


That's crazy talk!! 
Good luck


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> Dancop recommended me using bios 0804 ( Apex Xii) for Dual Rank


Was that before the 0901 BIOS came out? The old 0088 is good too btw.


----------



## Carillo

Betroz said:


> Was that before the 0901 BIOS came out? The old 0088 is good too btw.


0804 is before 0901, but after 0088. 0804 is far better then 0088. Much lover IO/SA voltages and tighter sub timings.


----------



## itssladenlol

Carillo said:


> 0804 is before 0901, but after 0088. 0804 is far better then 0088. Much lover IO/SA voltages and tighter sub timings.


Whaaaat? 
Gonna need to test 0804 now .
Got a link?


----------



## TheBoom

It seems odt was likely my issue. 80-48-0 was what I had. Changed it to auto-auto-0 and now the sticks pass 1450% in memtest.

I did increase IO/SA to 1.4v as well so that might be another factor.

It’s crazy that I need this much imc juice for 4137.


----------



## Carillo

itssladenlol said:


> Whaaaat?
> Gonna need to test 0804 now .
> Got a link?








ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0804.CAP







drive.google.com


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0804.CAP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


They are all up on the official website now https://rog.asus.com/nz/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-xii-apex-model/helpdesk_bios/


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> 0804 is before 0901


I know that. I use 0901 and that works well.


----------



## Carillo

Betroz said:


> I know that. I use 0901 and that works well.


He is using 0804 right now if that's what you are asking


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> He is using 0804 right now if that's what you are asking


He is claiming that 0804 is better than the newer 0901?


----------



## SimplyQQ

Hi,

I want to run 4000 @ CL16. What are better chances for me

F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
OR
F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR 

I would prefer 2x16 for cooling purposes.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> Hi,
> 
> I want to run 4000 @ CL16. What are better chances for me
> 
> F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
> OR
> F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR
> 
> I would prefer 2x16 for cooling purposes.


The best chance is 4000C16D-32GTRS. If it cannot run 4000CL16, just ask GSkill for a refund.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Betroz said:


> He is claiming that 0804 is better than the newer 0901?


I have tried all the way from 0804 to 1002, almost the same performance.


----------



## TheBoom

@Ichirou 

i’ve stabilized at 1.34v IO/SA with lower vcore. The sweet spot is linked closely with vcore so it takes a while to find.

vf point + offset from -0.07v to -0.085v @5GHZ. 

ODT is Auto-Auto-0 (wr-park-nom).


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The best chance is 4000C16D-32GTRS. If it cannot run 4000CL16, just ask GSkill for a refund.


LOL 

Yeah looked at those too, but they are 16-19-19, ant the CL15 one is 15-16-16...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> LOL
> 
> Yeah looked at those too, but they are 16-19-19, ant the CL15 one is 15-16-16...


They are DR. Run actually much faster than SR under the same timings.


----------



## KedarWolf

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> They are DR. Run actually much faster than SR under the same timings.


But are they b-die? b-die consistently get the best timings. Check the b-die finder website. I'm too lazy to and am at work.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

KedarWolf said:


> But are they b-die? b-die consistently get the best timings. Check the b-die finder website. I'm too lazy to and am at work.


Yes, I've posted this 3 mo ago. 4600 16-17 is doable.


----------



## Carillo

So i got my F4-4266C17D-32GVKB ( DUAL RANK) today. Been playing for 2 hours now, and this is what i got so far. Just some quick HCI testing to see that i'm not way off.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> So i got my F4-4266C17D-32GVKB ( DUAL RANK) today. Been playing for 2 hours now, and this is what i got so far. Just some quick HCI testing to see that i'm not way off.
> View attachment 2467574


Previously RDRD_dr has to be 6 or 5 for better stability.


----------



## Carillo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Previously RDRD_dr has to be 6 or 5 for better stability.


Thanks!


----------



## Carillo

4700 cl16 DUAL rank. Still need more time, but this is really promising


----------



## KedarWolf

Carillo said:


> 4700 cl16 DUAL rank. Still need more time, but this is really promising
> View attachment 2467593


If you get errors, sometimes lowering tREFI can get rid of them. Not always good to have it maxed out, though it helps with latency if you can.

Also, max tREFI can pass mem testing programs but still cause hidden memory errors.


----------



## Carillo

KedarWolf said:


> If you get errors, sometimes lowering tREFI can get rid of them. Not always good to have it maxed out, though it helps with latency if you can.
> 
> Also, max tREFI can pass mem testing programs but still cause hidden memory errors.


Thanks , noted


----------



## Betroz

KedarWolf said:


> Also, max tREFI can pass mem testing programs but still cause hidden memory errors.


Ok, but how do we test for that then? Prime95 in-place 112k fft? (AVX off). Or just check for WHEA errors in Windows Event Viewer maybe?


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> 4700 cl16 DUAL rank. Still need more time, but this is really promising
> View attachment 2467593


Is that still with the 1002 BIOS?
I might try that on mine. What voltages did you need?


----------



## Carillo

Still 1002, 1.60 vdimm , auto IO/SA for now


----------



## ViTosS

Carillo said:


> 4700 cl16 DUAL rank. Still need more time, but this is really promising
> View attachment 2467593


Nice! I'm just waiting for this to arrive:









And I will try [email protected], I hope it fit well with my GPU vertically mounted in Lian Li O11D


----------



## Carillo

ViTosS said:


> Nice! I'm just waiting for this to arrive:
> View attachment 2467634
> 
> 
> And I will try [email protected], I hope it fit well with my GPU vertically mounted in Lian Li O11D


4400 straight 16 needs about 1.55 vdimm on water like I am


----------



## ViTosS

Carillo said:


> 4400 straight 16 needs about 1.55 vdimm on water like I am


I was able to pass TM5 Extreme1 Anta with 1.52v at 4400 straight 16, didn't test any further in other stress tests, but at this voltage my temps go high and I would prefer to do that with a proper fan.


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> They are DR. Run actually much faster than SR under the same timings.


Oh ok. But what are the chances to get them to run 16-16-16?


----------



## Nizzen

SimplyQQ said:


> Oh ok. But what are the chances to get them to run 16-16-16?


Low temperature and Apex MB 😎🤙


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Low temperature and Apex MB 😎🤙


A good IMC doesn't hurt either


----------



## Ichirou

Anything else I could try tightening? TM5 and heat tested and so far stable after a day with VDIMM of 1.63V and VCCIO/VCCSA set to 1.25V/1.2V. Micron B-die.
tRFC won't POST at 600. Touching the RTLs/IOLs in _any _way will cause random instability, so I left them on Auto. ASUS BIOS seems to be doing a decent job of tightening them.


----------



## Carillo

Ichirou said:


> View attachment 2467719
> 
> Anything else I could try tightening? TM5 and heat tested and so far stable after a day with VDIMM of 1.63V and VCCIO/VCCSA set to 1.25V/1.2V. Micron B-die.
> tRFC won't POST at 600. Touching the RTLs/IOLs in _any _way will cause random instability, so I left them on Auto. ASUS BIOS seems to be doing a decent job of tightening them.


IOL CH A and B = 7, RTL CHA 61 and CHB 60

Most important settings there is, RTL AND IOL. There is a big chance your motherboard wont do IOL 7, than you try 8 or 9. But remember to change your RTL accordingly

Btw, have you found your best stick ? It look like your best stick is in the wrong channel


----------



## techenth

You guys got me gassed up, I'm returning my Team Xtreem 4133C18 for that Gskill 4266C17DR kit.
Team kit was able to achieve 4000C14/4500C16 with an 10600k.


----------



## Ichirou

Carillo said:


> IOL CH A and B = 7, RTL CHA 61 and CHB 60
> 
> Most important settings there is, RTL AND IOL. There is a big chance your motherboard wont do IOL 7, than you try 8 or 9. But remember to change your RTL accordingly
> 
> Btw, have you found your best stick ? It look like your best stick is in the wrong channel


What is the best way to train the motherboard to accept lower RTLs and IOLs without it just saying "Nope"? Because that's basically what's happening on mine.
If I try to tighten any of the RTLs or IOLs, it just doesn't post half the time. And if it does, then at any point in time it can get unstable and untrain itself, causing me to fail to post again.
I tried the guide thing linked on the IntegralFX guide, but it didn't work. Almost leaning towards it just being a Micron B-die thing.

And how do I figure out which is my best stick?


----------



## sixty9sublime

techenth said:


> You guys got me gassed up, I'm returning my Team Xtreem 4133C18 for that Gskill 4266C17DR kit.
> Team kit was able to achieve 4000C14/4500C16 with an 10600k.


Have the same kit, would you mind posting your timings/volts?


----------



## techenth

sixty9sublime said:


> Have the same kit, would you mind posting your timings/volts?


4500C16-15-15-28-2T 1.5SA 1.4VCIO 1.58VDIMM
TWR 12 TWR_MR 12
tRFC 360 tRRD 4 trRRD_L 4
WTR_S 2 WTR_L 7
tRTP 8 tFAW 16 tCWL 18 (matching it to tCL after 4400Mhz does not boot)
tCDD 4 tCDD_L 6 _MR 6
RTL 72-73 IOL 14-15
tREFI 65k tcke 2 PPD 0
trdrd_sg 8 trdrd_dg 4 rdrd_dr/dd 6 (_sg 7 not fully stable)
rdwr_sg/dg/dr/dd 12
wrrd_sg 31 wrrd_dg 27 (my kit does not do well with wrrd) wrrd_dr/dd 7
wrwr_sg/dg/dr/dd 7 4 7 7

8800 in Geekbench 3.

Can't remember the settings for 4000 since I barely run it, but it was with 1.3VCIO 1.4SA 1.5Vdimm.
I almost always leave RTP, RTP_MR and WTR_S/L on auto.


----------



## TheBoom

Ichirou said:


> What is the best way to train the motherboard to accept lower RTLs and IOLs without it just saying "Nope"? Because that's basically what's happening on mine.
> If I try to tighten any of the RTLs or IOLs, it just doesn't post half the time. And if it does, then at any point in time it can get unstable and untrain itself, causing me to fail to post again.
> I tried the guide thing linked on the IntegralFX guide, but it didn't work. Almost leaning towards it just being a Micron B-die thing.
> 
> And how do I figure out which is my best stick?


Scroll back a few pages and find the Russian guy’s post about how to set it correctly.

You can’t tighten RTL without adjusting IOL and vice versa.


----------



## Ichirou

TheBoom said:


> Scroll back a few pages and find the Russian guy’s post about how to set it correctly.
> 
> You can’t tighten RTL without adjusting IOL and vice versa.


Can you explain it to me in a nutshell?

The guide I looked at said to try raising the IOL Offset by 1, but when I did that, it wouldn't post.


----------



## munternet

Ichirou said:


> What is the best way to train the motherboard to accept lower RTLs and IOLs without it just saying "Nope"? Because that's basically what's happening on mine.
> If I try to tighten any of the RTLs or IOLs, it just doesn't post half the time. And if it does, then at any point in time it can get unstable and untrain itself, causing me to fail to post again.
> I tried the guide thing linked on the IntegralFX guide, but it didn't work. Almost leaning towards it just being a Micron B-die thing.
> 
> And how do I figure out which is my best stick?


I normally just subtract 1 from each of the IOLs and RTLs evenly if it's already booting and when it stops booting try raising the vccsa a little, or a lot 
Guessing the best stick is the one with the lowest RTLs on auto if one stick is better than the other


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> Most important settings there is, RTL AND IOL.


For latency you mean? The difference between let's say, RTL 67 and 61 is not that big. Boards like Apex sets RTL well on auto, but I guess cheaper boards do not.


----------



## Carillo

Betroz said:


> For latency you mean? The difference between let's say, RTL 67 and 61 is not that big. Boards like Apex sets RTL well on auto, but I guess cheaper boards do not.


 Yea every board . Even Apex sets IOL around 13-15, you want half of that. Yes it’s a big difference when it comes to latency


----------



## Carillo

Ichirou said:


> What is the best way to train the motherboard to accept lower RTLs and IOLs without it just saying "Nope"? Because that's basically what's happening on mine.
> If I try to tighten any of the RTLs or IOLs, it just doesn't post half the time. And if it does, then at any point in time it can get unstable and untrain itself, causing me to fail to post again.
> I tried the guide thing linked on the IntegralFX guide, but it didn't work. Almost leaning towards it just being a Micron B-die thing.
> 
> And how do I figure out which is my best stick?


IOL value determines RTL. Let's say your channel A IOL is 14, and your channel A RTL 67. If you set your IOL to 7, you have to reduce RTL with the same amount on channel A. So correct value is 60. Remember, when it comes to RTL's, there is only one correct value determined by your IOL. You can not "tune" those values like you tune your other settings. It's either right or wrong. If it's wrong you most likely not able to post. q-code 23.

EDIT: One dimm is always better than the other. When you have the best dimm in the "correct" slot it's much easier to train RTL and 
achieve stability. To find the best one, test 1 and 1 dimm in both slots and compare voltages needed for same settings. On my Apex, the motherboard wants best dimm closest to the CPU. Ironically, the slot closest to the CPU is the most demanding slot. Yes it is very time consuming.


----------



## Imprezzion

I am running 66/66/7/6 right now. Took me a loooong time to find the better of the 2 DIMM's but I'm locked in now.

4400 17-17-17-36-350-2T @ 1.46v DRAM, 1.40v SA 1.35v IO. I have to have such a high SA/IO otherwise it will error out in TM5. I tested many different voltages but it does really need this much.

I can't run higher frequencies either as it will not stabilize no matter the SA/IO. These DIMM's can run much higher frequencies as I've tested them in another system and they easily handled 4700 straight 18's on 1.55v but I think I'm at the end of my 10900KF's IMC and my board (MSI Z490 Ace) isn't helping either.


----------



## Carillo

Imprezzion said:


> I am running 66/66/7/6 right now. Took me a loooong time to find the better of the 2 DIMM's but I'm locked in now.
> 
> 4400 17-17-17-36-350-2T @ 1.46v DRAM, 1.40v SA 1.35v IO. I have to have such a high SA/IO otherwise it will error out in TM5. I tested many different voltages but it does really need this much.
> 
> I can't run higher frequencies either as it will not stabilize no matter the SA/IO. These DIMM's can run much higher frequencies as I've tested them in another system and they easily handled 4700 straight 18's on 1.55v but I think I'm at the end of my 10900KF's IMC and my board (MSI Z490 Ace) isn't helping either.


have you tried 65/66 6/6 ?

straight IOL performs better


----------



## itssladenlol

My old trident Z rgb 3200 c14 dont seem to be as Bad as i thought. 

4400 c18 is running with tightest Subs and 66/66/66/66 8/8/8/8 on1,4v.
68000/68000/65500/36,9ns.
80/40/0 odts.
1,3SA/IO 1,15DMI Voltage

Running since days through all Tests (gsat, hci, Karhu, realbench, [email protected])
Even After cold boot and unplugging Power no Problems.
Gotta say the apex is a beast and makes a huge Difference.
I could even run 4400 c16 1,52v with tight Subs error free but no need for that, 1,4v is better for daily. 
Im done now with memory oc.


----------



## Imprezzion

Carillo said:


> have you tried 65/66 6/6 ?
> 
> straight IOL performs better


I can try.. This board does not allow setting RTL/IO manually, it has to be trained using Initial and Offsets. I already have to run 65/65/4/4 with offset 23/24 to get it to train this. Otherwise it would do 66/67/6/8 which is 2 apart and way worse with 24/24 offset.

I can try to get it to do 6/6 but that probably requires offset 23/25 or initial 4/3 if that even trains at all.


----------



## sixty9sublime

techenth said:


> 4500C16-15-15-28-2T 1.5SA 1.4VCIO 1.58VDIMM
> TWR 12 TWR_MR 12
> tRFC 360 tRRD 4 trRRD_L 4
> WTR_S 2 WTR_L 7
> tRTP 8 tFAW 16 tCWL 18 (matching it to tCL after 4400Mhz does not boot)
> tCDD 4 tCDD_L 6 _MR 6
> RTL 72-73 IOL 14-15
> tREFI 65k tcke 2 PPD 0
> trdrd_sg 8 trdrd_dg 4 rdrd_dr/dd 6 (_sg 7 not fully stable)
> rdwr_sg/dg/dr/dd 12
> wrrd_sg 31 wrrd_dg 27 (my kit does not do well with wrrd) wrrd_dr/dd 7
> wrwr_sg/dg/dr/dd 7 4 7 7
> 
> 8800 in Geekbench 3.
> 
> Can't remember the settings for 4000 since I barely run it, but it was with 1.3VCIO 1.4SA 1.5Vdimm.
> I almost always leave RTP, RTP_MR and WTR_S/L on auto.


That's quite helpful, thank you! I've had luck keeping SA/IO under 1.30V up to 4266 on my z490 Unify. I think my IMC is above average, so maybe hitting 4400 under 1.4V SA/IO is possible. 

Also curious as to why you leave RTP on auto, does it help with stability or temps? I seem to have no issues hovering around 8-10 but then again I haven't tried to stabilize 4400+ yet.


----------



## Ichirou

@munternet @Betroz @Carillo

Okay, so basically, gradually the IOLs and RTLs all by 1, flat same value, until it doesn't post. Is that what I should be doing? I think my motherboard (ASUS Prime Z390-A) already tightened them, but I can't be sure. Below is what Auto looks like; my IOLs on CH B are 1 higher than on CH A, so I'm not sure what I should do in that case.









If it is in any way helpful: My motherboard once automatically tightened RTL CH B to 65, and IOL CH B to 13. But after some failed training (I was still tweaking my RAM timings), they undid themselves and wouldn't train back since. Can somebody provide examples for settings I should test?


----------



## ViTosS

I already tried to reduce the IOL CHB to 6 and make it equal to CHA, but it booted and gave me a BSOD during Windows loading, if I increase the RTL (CHB) to 62 (or reduce to 60 instead of 61) maybe I can reduce to 6 if I understood correctly the explanation a few posts before?


----------



## Carillo

ViTosS said:


> I already tried to reduce the IOL CHB to 6 and make it equal to CHA, but it booted and gave me a BSOD during Windows loading, if I increase the RTL (CHB) to 62 (or reduce to 60 instead of 61) maybe I can reduce to 6 if I understood correctly the explanation a few posts before?
> 
> View attachment 2467860


Either 59/60 6/6 or 60/61 7/7


----------



## Ichirou

@Carillo
I think I kind of understand now. Should I be testing 61/61/60/60 and 7/7/7/7? (Refer to my readout above)

Also, in regards to my DIMMs, it came in one package split into two sets of DIMMs. That is, even though they're the same batch, it is 2x16 in one set, and 2x16 in another set. I currently have them in a dual channel config based on those two sets (I didn't mix and match).


----------



## ViTosS

Carillo said:


> Either 59/60 6/6 or 60/61 7/7


Thanks, will try that, btw this RTL and IOL was set automatically by my motherboard, the way I set RTLs is always let it train AUTO with MRC Fast Boot on AUTO and then after many reboots I always check the lowest it trains and set it manually, and the one in that screenshot was the lowest, so then I disabled MRC Fast Boot and manually set those values.


----------



## Ichirou

@Carillo
This was the absolute lowest I could boot with (I already tried 5 for every IOL). It seems I have one DIMM that isn't as great as the others (CHB D1). Should I just leave them like this? Or should I ramp all of the IOLs up to an even 7?

On a side note, RTL CHB D0 _once _was Auto'd to 57. Is that indicative of my RTLs not being tight enough?


----------



## KedarWolf

ViTosS said:


> Thanks, will try that, btw this RTL and IOL was set automatically by my motherboard, the way I set RTLs is always let it train AUTO with MRC Fast Boot on AUTO and then after many reboots I always check the lowest it trains and set it manually, and the one in that screenshot was the lowest, so then I disabled MRC Fast Boot and manually set those values.


Best way to train RTLs and IOLs low, if set your RAM on a lower speed, say 3800 of whatever you can set on the divider you use, have IOLs ad RTLs on Auto, reboot, see what they are at the divider, manually set them to that, change the divider back to 4400 or whatever speed you normally run your RAM at, turn MRC Fast Boot to On, reboot, if it boots, stress test your PC with TM5, see if you're stable. If you are, you can even try lower RAM speeds and this method and stress test again. If it doesn't boot or you get errors, try the same method but with RAM speed higher.

Booting with a lower RAM speed with IOLs and RTLs on Auto should lower them, and manually setting them with MRC Fast Boot On should keep them at that and you should not good the boot errors from having them improperly set. It seems there are set formulas as to what combinations of RTLs and IOLs will actually boot and setting what they are at different memory speeds keeps that formula.


----------



## techenth

sixty9sublime said:


> That's quite helpful, thank you! I've had luck keeping SA/IO under 1.30V up to 4266 on my z490 Unify. I think my IMC is above average, so maybe hitting 4400 under 1.4V SA/IO is possible.
> 
> Also curious as to why you leave RTP on auto, does it help with stability or temps? I seem to have no issues hovering around 8-10 but then again I haven't tried to stabilize 4400+ yet.


Yeah you should be able get away with 1.25-1.35SA under 4400Mhz. My Tomahawk runs a C16 tRFC tREFI optimized XMP profile at 1.2VCIO 1.25SA without problems.
I can get RTP to 6-8 but in my testing tightening RTP caused minimal bandwidth increase at the cost of latency and IOL training so I leave it alone.


----------



## Ichirou

@KedarWolf Any opinion on how I can further tweak my RTLs/IOLs?


----------



## KedarWolf

Ichirou said:


> @KedarWolf Any opinion on how I can further tweak my RTLs/IOLs?


See my post two posts above, ask me if you need any help.


----------



## Ichirou

KedarWolf said:


> See my post two posts above, ask me if you need any help.


Yes, I've already tightened them to my settings upon someone else's advice; just looking to see if I can try going further manually.









*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


@Carillo This was the absolute lowest I could boot with (I already tried 5 for every IOL). It seems I have one DIMM that isn't as great as the others (CHB D1). Should I just leave them like this? Or should I ramp all of the IOLs up to an even 7? On a side note, RTL CHB D0 once was Auto'd to 57...




www.overclock.net


----------



## KedarWolf

Ichirou said:


> Yes, I've already tightened them to my settings upon someone else's advice; just looking to see if I can try going further manually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> @Carillo This was the absolute lowest I could boot with (I already tried 5 for every IOL). It seems I have one DIMM that isn't as great as the others (CHB D1). Should I just leave them like this? Or should I ramp all of the IOLs up to an even 7? On a side note, RTL CHB D0 once was Auto'd to 57...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Did you read my post four posts above on how to properly train them lower etc.? You need to follow that mehod with lower RAM speeds or you get random boot errors.


----------



## Ichirou

KedarWolf said:


> Did you read my post four posts above on how to properly train them lower etc.? You need to follow that mehod with lower RAM speeds or you get random boot errors.


It confused me a little because of wording, but is the idea to enable MRC Fast Boot, set the RTLs and IOLs to Auto, set a lower frequency to see how low they get set to, and then try to force those same numbers at my main frequency?


----------



## ViTosS

KedarWolf said:


> Best way to train RTLs and IOLs low, if set your RAM on a lower speed, say 3800 of whatever you can set on the divider you use, have IOLs ad RTLs on Auto, reboot, see what they are at the divider, manually set them to that, change the divider back to 4400 or whatever speed you normally run your RAM at, turn MRC Fast Boot to On, reboot, if it boots, stress test your PC with TM5, see if you're stable. If you are, you can even try lower RAM speeds and this method and stress test again. If it doesn't boot or you get errors, try the same method but with RAM speed higher.
> 
> Booting with a lower RAM speed with IOLs and RTLs on Auto should lower them, and manually setting them with MRC Fast Boot On should keep them at that and you should not good the boot errors from having them improperly set. It seems there are set formulas as to what combinations of RTLs and IOLs will actually boot and setting what they are at different memory speeds keeps that formula.


I see, but what is the function of MRC Fast Boot? I thought it was made to automatically train RTLs and IOLs, but if I set manually the values and leave MRC ON he will never change every boot those values, so I just disable it, what happens if I disable MRC and set the RTL/IOLs at AUTO? They keep changing every reboot? I thought the only function of MRC was to change them every boot automatically.


----------



## KedarWolf

Ichirou said:


> It confused me a little because of wording, but is the idea to enable MRC Fast Boot, set the RTLs and IOLs to Auto, set a lower frequency to see how low they get set to, and then try to force those same numbers at my main frequency?


If you turm MRC Fast Boot On they'll stay at the lower settings when you reboot, even if you set memory speed higher. Fast Boot exactly means it doesn't train them.

Edit: Actually if you manually set them at the lower speed, it should boot and you don't even have to turn Fast Boot On. I was thinking like Z390 Gigabyte where you needed to do it with Fast Boot On, but if they are manually set and not on Auto, they should stay set with Fast Boot On or Off.

If you check in RAM Configurator and and they didn't stay set, then MRC Fast Boot On will help.


----------



## Ichirou

KedarWolf said:


> If you turm MRC Fast Boot On they'll stay at the lower settings when you reboot, even if you set memory speed higher. Fast Boot exactly means it doesn't train them.


Ah, I see. So disable it, Auto the RTLs/IOLs to find the lowest boot numbers at a lower frequency, then enable it to lock them in and see if it posts. If not, try a higher (but still not main) frequency instead. I'll try this later today and see how it fares.

On a side note: I already think I found the lowest IOL values I could post with at my current frequency. Should I still make them auto? Or just leave them locked as is?


----------



## ViTosS

KedarWolf said:


> If you turm MRC Fast Boot On they'll stay at the lower settings when you reboot, even if you set memory speed higher. Fast Boot exactly means it doesn't train them.
> 
> Edit: Actually if you manually set them at the lower speed, it should boot and you don't even have to turn Fast Boot On. I was thinking like Z390 Gigabyte where you needed to do it with Fast Boot On, but if they are manually set and not on Auto, they should stay set with Fast Boot On or Off.
> 
> If you check in RAM Configurator and and they didn't stay set, then MRC Fast Boot On will help.


Oh so what kept changing my RTL/IOLs every reboot was in fact the AUTO value I had in them and not the MRC Fast Boot, thanks!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> @Carillo
> This was the absolute lowest I could boot with (I already tried 5 for every IOL). It seems I have one DIMM that isn't as great as the others (CHB D1). Should I just leave them like this? Or should I ramp all of the IOLs up to an even 7?
> 
> On a side note, RTL CHB D0 _once _was Auto'd to 57. Is that indicative of my RTLs not being tight enough?
> View attachment 2467886


As I told you few days ago, you need to bin your sticks first, arrange them with A, B, C, D, from best to worst.

Then put them in A->A1, C->A2, B->B1, D->B2.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> As I told you few days ago, you need to bin your sticks first, arrange them with A, B, C, D, from best to worst.
> 
> Then put them in A->A1, C->A2, B->B1, D->B2.


I haven't binned them yet, but it seems like I already got the right combination?
Three of four sticks reached IOL 6, while the last one could only do 7 and is in B2.
None of the sticks can go any lower for IOL.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> I haven't binned them yet, but it seems like I already got the right combination?
> Three of four sticks reached IOL 6, while the last one could only do 7 and is in B2.
> None of the sticks can go any lower for IOL.


IOL has nothing to do with the quality. It only synchronizes the signals. The weakest DIMM slot defines the lowest performance of your system. 

There is no short cut to do things.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> IOL has nothing to do with the quality. It only synchronizes the signals. The weakest DIMM slot defines the lowest performance of your system.
> 
> There is no short cut to do things.


So how exactly do I figure out which stick works better in which slot? Somebody mentioned something about testing voltages, but I'm not exactly sure how that works?

Should I just try putting each DIMM into each individual slot and seeing how low the RTL/IOL can go?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> So how exactly do I figure out which stick works better in which slot? Somebody mentioned something about testing voltages, but I'm not exactly sure how that works?
> 
> Should I just try putting each DIMM into each individual slot and seeing how low the RTL/IOL can go?


I suggest fix only primary timings and volts, like 1.45V 4000 MHz 15-19-35, one time put one stick in the same slot (B2), run TM5, pick out the ones that made errors, then tighten the timings and bin the rest.


----------



## munternet

Got my system booting 4700c16 with some help and inspiration from @Carillo  Working on stability
I just have to stand on my left facing east for it to train


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> one time put one stick in the same slot (B2), run TM5, pick out the ones that made errors, then tighten the timings and bin the rest.


I'm sorry, you lost me a little here. So you want me to test each stick individually in B2 with locked VDIMM and primaries, and basically see which sticks do not give errors?
And then I'd repeat that test for A1, A2, B1 as well, and put the sticks in to the slots that don't give errors. Is that the idea?

Would an easy solution be to do something like this: With current settings, reduce voltage to the point where it fails to post, and then test each stick in each slot to see which do post at this voltage, and then repeat the same test for all four sticks to find the optimal combination. If there's more than one combination, lower voltage further and repeat test.


----------



## Carillo

Almost 30 minutes, i did no have patience for more


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> I'm sorry, you lost me a little here. So you want me to test each stick individually in B2 with locked VDIMM and primaries, and basically see which sticks do not give errors?
> And then I'd repeat that test for A1, A2, B1 as well, and put the sticks in to the slots that don't give errors. Is that the idea?
> 
> Would an easy solution be to do something like this: With current settings, reduce voltage to the point where it fails to post, and then test each stick in each slot to see which do post at this voltage, and then repeat the same test for all four sticks to find the optimal combination. If there's more than one combination, lower voltage further and repeat test.


Just need to do this with B2. Test sticks with locked parameters to check errors.

B2 usually has the best signal so it might be better to just use B2 for binning the sticks.

The purpose of this is to bring up the weakest DIMM signal quality.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> Almost 30 minutes, i did no have patience for more
> View attachment 2467928


The uneven coverages... maybe an IMC issue?


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Just need to do this with B2. Test sticks with locked parameters to check errors.
> 
> B2 usually has the best signal so it might be better to just use B2 for binning the sticks.
> 
> The purpose of this is to bring up the weakest DIMM signal quality.


Okay, I understand. Silly question, but is B2 the slot that is the furthest away from the CPU?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Okay, I understand. Silly question, but is B2 the slot that is the furthest away from the CPU?


Yes, that's it.


----------



## Carillo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The uneven coverages... maybe an IMC issue?


Probably , seems like the IMC sucks compared to your settings


----------



## Carillo

Just playing aorund to see what those dimms can do  Can you give me som tips OldFatFuck?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Carillo said:


> Just playing aorund to see what those dimms can do  Can you give me som tips OldFatFuck?
> View attachment 2467946
> View attachment 2467945


Congrats my friend  good enough. I haven't got 4700 stable yet.🥴

Dunno the voltages. When the VDimm is high enough (>1.6V), you may try to push tRFC to 120ns.


----------



## fideb

I am finally done with the tertiaries/third timings so i was going to try the rest of the settings, first up was tcke. 0 seems to give higher latency then auto (5), is this normal? Im using a 6700k, Asus HERO VIII Z170 board and these RAM sticks:


http://imgur.com/TNjqbIy

 (Obviously everything else stayed the same)
​

*tCKE*​*AIDA READ*​*AIDA WRITE*​*AIDA COPY*​*AIDA LATENCY*​5 (Auto)​53233​54295​49021​37.90​0​53355​54305​49057​38.33​


----------



## Ichirou

fideb said:


> I am finally done with the tertiaries/third timings so i was going to try the rest of the settings, first up was tcke. 0 seems to give higher latency then auto (5), is this normal? Im using a 6700k, Asus HERO VIII Z170 board and these RAM sticks:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/TNjqbIy
> 
> (Obviously everything else stayed the same)
> ​
> 
> *tCKE*​*AIDA READ*​*AIDA WRITE*​*AIDA COPY*​*AIDA LATENCY*​5 (Auto)​53233​54295​49021​37.90​0​53355​54305​49057​38.33​


Margin of error type stuff. You need to run it a couple dozen times to get an accurate golden score because literally anything running in the background, even the OS, can affect it. tCKE at 0 should always be better than it at 1+.


----------



## fideb

Ichirou said:


> Margin of error type stuff. You need to run it a couple dozen times to get an accurate golden score because literally anything running in the background, even the OS, can affect it. tCKE at 0 should always be better than it at 1+.


Thats what i though too, the numbers are an average of 7 runs of each test, since the numbers didnt make sense to me i retried it and got basically the exact same results, tcke at 0 gives me between 38.2-38.4 latency while tcke 5 gives me between 37.8-37.9 with 1 outlier of 38.2 in 14 tests so far


----------



## Muqeshem




----------



## Muqeshem




----------



## Muqeshem

any tips or tricks for z370 x apex to tune the memory further, maybe a modded bios or something ? kindly, reach out to me for help and suggetions and I shall deliver. Regards.


----------



## Nizzen

Muqeshem said:


> any tips or tricks for z370 x apex to tune the memory further, maybe a modded bios or something ? kindly, reach out to me for help and suggetions and I shall deliver. Regards.


0021 bios looks to be the best for memory overclocking. I used that bios before I got the z490 apex 








0021 (OC BIOS, New Sammy A2 Profiles)
0050 (OC BIOS, allows BCLK change with OC PANEL)
0093 (OC BIOS, allows higher voltages without LN2 switch)
0033 (early OC BIOS)

Extreme guide, just in case...






ROG Maximus XI APEX - NEW BIOS PROFILES & small guide


Hey Fellas, Everyone was binning and buying A0 memories with the goal to reach 4200+ c12-11. For a very long time, this was the absolute way to go in all benchmarks, until Alva decided to show us the real magic on A2 during the GOC 2018 in Vietnam. From that moment on, a lot of people tried to re...



community.hwbot.org


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, i got 66/66/6/6 to work. Was stuck at 66/66/7/6 quite a while. Unfortunately it won't boot 65/65 stable enough. 
I did have to run some wierd initials to make this work but yeah, as long as it works right? This is with 65/65/1/1 Initials with 24/22 offset. 

Anything else i can improve on here? (tRDWR is maxed, 14 errors like crazy and 13 won't even boot).


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Well, i got 66/66/6/6 to work. Was stuck at 66/66/7/6 quite a while. Unfortunately it won't boot 65/65 stable enough.
> I did have to run some wierd initials to make this work but yeah, as long as it works right? This is with 65/65/1/1 Initials with 24/22 offset.
> 
> Anything else i can improve on here? (tRDWR is maxed, 14 errors like crazy and 13 won't even boot).


Post Aida64, so it's possible too see if there need to be any improvement


----------



## Imprezzion

Nizzen said:


> Post Aida64, so it's possible too see if there need to be any improvement


Training disabled, MRC Fast Boot disabled, all manual primary secondary and tertiary, RTL / IO set through the board using Initials and Offsets, PPD = 0 tXP = 0, ODT's at 80-48-0. 

1.46v DRAM 1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.29v vCore.

RAM gets about 38-39c at these voltages under load. They have their own 140mm fan blowing on them. 

CPU is at 5.1Ghz all core AVX0 tested in every imaginable test including Prime95 28.9 AVX FMA3 enabled. Cache at 5Ghz. Also stable. CPU can easily do 5.3Ghz but I can't cool it with this loop.


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Training disabled, MRC Fast Boot disabled, all manual primary secondary and tertiary, RTL / IO set through the board using Initials and Offsets, PPD = 0 tXP = 0, ODT's at 80-48-0.
> 
> 1.46v DRAM 1.40v SA 1.35v IO 1.29v vCore.
> 
> RAM gets about 38-39c at these voltages under load. They have their own 140mm fan blowing on them.
> 
> CPU is at 5.1Ghz all core AVX0 tested in every imaginable test including Prime95 28.9 AVX FMA3 enabled. Cache at 5Ghz. Also stable. CPU can easily do 5.3Ghz but I can't cool it with this loop.


For me, it looks like you nailed it. Close to the same performance that I have with my 4000c19 trident-z black 2x16. Good job!


----------



## Imprezzion

Nizzen said:


> For me, it looks like you nailed it. Close to the same performance that I have with my 4000c19 trident-z black 2x16. Good job!


Oh yeah I didn't even mention what kit this is.
It's a Trident-Z Neo RGB 2x16GB 3600C16 kit.


----------



## bscool

techenth said:


> 4500C16-15-15-28-2T 1.5SA 1.4VCIO 1.58VDIMM
> TWR 12 TWR_MR 12
> tRFC 360 tRRD 4 trRRD_L 4
> WTR_S 2 WTR_L 7
> tRTP 8 tFAW 16 tCWL 18 (matching it to tCL after 4400Mhz does not boot)
> tCDD 4 tCDD_L 6 _MR 6
> RTL 72-73 IOL 14-15
> tREFI 65k tcke 2 PPD 0
> trdrd_sg 8 trdrd_dg 4 rdrd_dr/dd 6 (_sg 7 not fully stable)
> rdwr_sg/dg/dr/dd 12
> wrrd_sg 31 wrrd_dg 27 (my kit does not do well with wrrd) wrrd_dr/dd 7
> wrwr_sg/dg/dr/dd 7 4 7 7
> 
> 8800 in Geekbench 3.
> 
> Can't remember the settings for 4000 since I barely run it, but it was with 1.3VCIO 1.4SA 1.5Vdimm.
> I almost always leave RTP, RTP_MR and WTR_S/L on auto.


Edit, I missed they skill will be dual ranks. Good choice  I have a kit and they are good. But I also have a 3200c14 and they clock about the same. Also Team 3600c16 were similar. Just pay the top notch XMP fee with Gskills high end kits.



Ichirou said:


> Can you explain it to me in a nutshell?
> 
> The guide I looked at said to try raising the IOL Offset by 1, but when I did that, it wouldn't post.


Watch what he does in bios might help you understand. It really is simple once you do it. 




I would suggest clocking your timing down a bit when learning how to set IOL/RTL so you know you are within your ram/imc limits. For example you are at 4200 now go down to say 3600 until you figure out how to set them and they boot. I wouldn't mess with an offset. He show the differences if you watch the whole video. I just watch the parts pics and graphs since I do not understand the language 

As an example if you are at the limits of your system now with your current clocks of 4200 and timings you might have to go down to say 4133 to tighten the IOLs but you will get better performance than higher clocks with looser IOLs.


----------



## Ichirou

Muqeshem said:


> any tips or tricks for z370 x apex to tune the memory further, maybe a modded bios or something ? kindly, reach out to me for help and suggetions and I shall deliver. Regards.


You can pretty much set all of the timings that are at 1 to 0 instead.


Imprezzion said:


> Well, i got 66/66/6/6 to work. Was stuck at 66/66/7/6 quite a while. Unfortunately it won't boot 65/65 stable enough.
> I did have to run some wierd initials to make this work but yeah, as long as it works right? This is with 65/65/1/1 Initials with 24/22 offset.
> 
> Anything else i can improve on here? (tRDWR is maxed, 14 errors like crazy and 13 won't even boot).
> 
> View attachment 2468001


So how did you manage to pull down that one IOL?


bscool said:


> Watch what he does in bios might help you understand. It really is simple once you do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest clocking your timing down a bit when learning how to set IOL/RTL so you know you are within your ram/imc limits. For example you are at 4200 now go down to say 3600 until you figure out how to set them and they boot. I wouldn't mess with an offset. He show the differences if you watch the whole video. I just watch the parts pics and graphs since I do not understand the language
> 
> As an example if you are at the limits of your system now with your current clocks of 4200 and timings you might have to go down to say 4133 to tighten the IOLs but you will get better performance than higher clocks with looser IOLs.


From what I can tell, I already figured out the methodology behind tightening RTL/IOL. But I left them on Auto for now, since the setting I had before, 60/60/59/60 and 6/6/6/7, would BSOD the PC on idle after three hours (probably not enough VCCIO). Gonna tweak some other stuff before getting back to it (and I gotta play around with the DIMM placement to try to fix that one IOL outlier as well).


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> You can pretty much set all of the timings that are at 1 to 0 instead.
> 
> So how did you manage to pull down that one IOL?
> 
> From what I can tell, I already figured out the methodology behind tightening RTL/IOL. But I left them on Auto for now, since the setting I had before, 60/60/59/60 and 6/6/6/7, would BSOD the PC on idle after three hours (probably not enough VCCIO). Gonna tweak some other stuff before getting back to it (and I gotta play around with the DIMM placement to try to fix that one IOL outlier as well).


can you tell how to work on rtl/iol?


----------



## Imprezzion

I got that IOL lower by adjusting the offset value. My BIOS has Initial and Offset values. If I raise the offset it drops IOL. So I run 22 offset for the first channel and 24 on the second. Training is 6/8 so if I run a +2 offset it's 6/6.


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> can you tell how to work on rtl/iol?


Others explained it better over the last few pages, but what I did was I lowered the IOL and the RTL values equally.
For example: 60/60 RTL and 13/13 IOL could be set to 55/55 RTL and 8/8 IOL. (All lowered by 5)


Imprezzion said:


> I got that IOL lower by adjusting the offset value. My BIOS has Initial and Offset values. If I raise the offset it drops IOL. So I run 22 offset for the first channel and 24 on the second. Training is 6/8 so if I run a +2 offset it's 6/6.


Ah, so in my case, since my BIOS trains my sticks to 13/13/14/14 automatically, to get an even 6, I'd do something like IOL Offset CHA to 7 and CHB to 8?
(Is there any functional difference from simply tweaking the IOLs manually? Or you wouldn't know yourself since your BIOS doesn't allow you to?)


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> Others explained it better over the last few pages, but what I did was I lowered the IOL and the RTL values equally.
> For example: 60/60 RTL and 13/13 IOL could be set to 55/55 RTL and 8/8 IOL. (All lowered by 5)
> 
> Ah, so in my case, since my BIOS trains my sticks to 13/13/14/14 automatically, to get an even 6, I'd do something like IOL Offset CHA to 7 and CHB to 8?
> (Is there any functional difference from simply tweaking the IOLs manually? Or you wouldn't know yourself since your BIOS doesn't allow you to?)


If I set anything manually it just doesn't post at all. 

Even with the same values as it trains with on Auto. 

All I can do is set my RTL by using a lower Initial so and higher offset for lower IOL. All in all this is not that bad to get used to. Z390 Ace worked the same way.


----------



## techenth

RTL-IOL optimized, fully stable. Improved my 3Dmark CPU score from 9200 to 9700 on a 10600k. Bandwidth around 65k, latency 37-38ns.
2x8 4133C18 kit by Team Group.


----------



## sixty9sublime

techenth said:


> RTL-IOL optimized, fully stable. Improved my 3Dmark CPU score from 9200 to 9700 on a 10600k. Bandwidth around 65k, latency 37-38ns.
> 2x8 4133C18 kit by Team Group.
> 
> View attachment 2468072
> View attachment 2468073


If you don't mind me asking, what are your voltages like? Have the same kit, processor, and an msi board as well.


----------



## techenth

sixty9sublime said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what are your voltages like? Have the same kit, processor, and an msi board as well.


Yeah of course.
Vdimm is at 1.6, SA at 1.32(might be downed further), VCIO at 1.28.
I'm currently lowering the secondaries further with 1.3VCIO. After that I'll start a 4600Mhz OC. Tried 4800 aswell but requires stupid amounts of SA.

On the CPU side of things, I've got 1.3Vcore on override with LLC3.


----------



## TheBoom

Ichirou said:


> Others explained it better over the last few pages, but what I did was I lowered the IOL and the RTL values equally.
> For example: 60/60 RTL and 13/13 IOL could be set to 55/55 RTL and 8/8 IOL. (All lowered by 5)
> 
> Ah, so in my case, since my BIOS trains my sticks to 13/13/14/14 automatically, to get an even 6, I'd do something like IOL Offset CHA to 7 and CHB to 8?
> (Is there any functional difference from simply tweaking the IOLs manually? Or you wouldn't know yourself since your BIOS doesn't allow you to?)


The Russian guy who posted the guide did say you get better performance from leaving IOL offset as it is and reducing IOLs directly.

Meaning 21+7 is better than 14+14.




Gen. said:


> Let me remind you, I am from Russia, I have already done material for "ours", but I will tell you about setting up rtl too. I use google translate, so don't hit hard  I hope it will be intuitively clear. Love, Alexander or just Gen.
> 
> *Introduction*
> Greetings to all.
> Everyone was waiting, everyone wanted a clear guide to setting up an RTL block.
> *Theory*
> What is an RTL block? This is our memory training in the correct mode of its operation. Correct RTL = IOL + IOL Offset <= 28 (e.g. 7-21, 6-21 or 5-21). As a rule, the ratio should be 7-21, not 6-21. Since with IOL = 6, a specific memory may simply not be stable, but the same memory released even in the same week / year is stable. If anyone decides to swoop down on 5-21, I will disappoint you a little. Such low combinations are available, as a rule, only at low memory frequencies. This is somewhere up to 3200 MHz RAM frequency. Also, I do not recommend underestimating the IOL Offset and raising the IOL. It turned out that, in general, this will not change anything much (for example, combinations of 14-14 or 13-14), but in SuperPi 7-21 it will be faster than 14-14.
> Hope that something was clear.
> *Recommendations*
> Further, I do not recommend making the difference in IOL, even if the RTL is on par (for example, IOL 7-7, RTL 60-60 (60-61 / 60-62). That is, we do either 6-6 or 7-7.
> Exceptions are boards such as: ASUS PRIME Z390 / Z490, TUF Z390 / Z490, STRIX Z390 / Z490. They may even have 7-7 and 59-58, in this case I recommend doing 6-7 58-58. There are Z390 GIGABYTE boards, where the RTL block at 4000+ simply does not start (it will be 13-13, 14-14, even 15-15 sometimes), which is the reason for this, only the BIOS shell writers know.
> There are also Z490 boards (MSI, less often ASUS), where IOL 7-7 will simply not start at any frequency. While you can try 8-8, you must correct the BIOS soon, then everything will work correctly and correctly.
> What else I would like to say ... Sometimes it is useful to throw VCCIO / VCCSA voltages for a more successful training (for Z170-Z390 ~ 1.35V / 1.4V, for Z490 ~ 1.38V / 1.45V). I'm talking now specifically about training, then you can set Memory Fast Boot = Enabled / No training.
> And last but not least, DO THE CORRECT TRAINING BEFORE SETTING THE TIMINGS, because with 8-8 ++ you can be stable, but with the right training, you won't (more often it concerns some Z270 (ASRock, MSI) and Z490 (GIGABYTE) boards) ...
> *Explanations of what and where*
> Well, now let's get down to the very essence:
> RTL block decoding:
> CHA - channel A (1/3 for cards with 4 RAM slots (existing))
> CHB - channel B (2/4 for cards with 4 RAM slots (existing))
> D0 - first DIMM (needed for both SR and DR)
> D1- second DIMM (needed for DR and only)
> R0 - the first RANK (needed for both SR and DR)
> R1- second RANK (needed for DR and only)
> P.S. SR - single rank - memory chips are soldered on one side; DR - dual rank - memory chips are soldered on both sides.
> P.S.S. ASRock Timing Configuration for boards with two RAM slots can display 2 strips in A or B channel - we do not pay attention.
> *RTL setup*
> We set RTL Init according to the formula = 2 * CL + 35. 35 = Constanta (IOL Offset (21) + IOL Init (4) + 10 (Constanta). More often this is a suitable option, sometimes 2 * CL + 37 helps (Auto Z490 MSI sets this way, ASUS can set the formula itself or sky-high values For GIGABYTE boards, skip this step, because this is not in it, and it sets some of its bad values. Set IOL Offset 21-21 (IO_Latency_offset for ASUS boards, IO Compensation for MSI boards) for A and B channels (on GIGABYTE only available on XOC BIOS Z490) Set RFR Delay 14-14 for A and B channels (for ASUS and GIGABYTE boards) Other parameters are in Auto.
> For ASUS, MSI boards, we set the following parameters:
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> Always. Permanent. They can help to train the memory in auto-mode (already correctly from the first or second time).
> Then “press” F10-Enter and go back to the BIOS. We go into the RTL block and look for, for example, such a picture (for example, ASUS APEX XI with 4533-CL17-CR1 and SR memory):
> DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
> DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHA) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
> DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHB) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [66]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [65]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [12]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [10]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> The above training is incorrect, because we know that our IOLs should be 6-6 or 7-7.
> What to do? From the IOL of channel A, which is 12, we subtract 7 (correct IOL) to get a number that must also be subtracted from the RTL of channel A. 12-7 (correct IOL) = 5. From the RTL of channel A, subtract 5, namely 66 -5 = 61. Our RTL-IOL for Channel A will be 61-7. We do the same with the B channel. We get 62-7. We enter the correct values.
> It should look like this:
> DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
> DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHA) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
> DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHB) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [61]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [62]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> Then “press” F10-Enter and go back to the BIOS. For ASUS boards, you can then do it like this:
> DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [61]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [62]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> That is, put “zeros” where we do not use ranks and dimms. For the rest of the boards, just fix the values.
> Then you can try 60-6, 61-6, but it is easy to lose stability at such a low CL and high frequency.
> *Conclusion*
> Hopefully now it is better to understand how to set up the RTL block. If you have any questions, be sure to write, I might add something, the drug is open or directly on the forum.


Here


----------



## Betroz

techenth said:


> RTL-IOL optimized, fully stable. Improved my 3Dmark CPU score from 9200 to 9700 on a 10600k. Bandwidth around 65k, latency 37-38ns.
> 2x8 4133C18 kit by Team Group.


Newest Prime95, in-place 112k fft, AVX off stable for 2 hours too?


----------



## Ichirou

TheBoom said:


> The Russian guy who posted the guide did say you get better performance from leaving IOL offset as it is and reducing IOLs directly.
> 
> Meaning 21+7 is better than 14+14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here


That was a lot to absorb and take in, especially with odd wording. So from what I could figure out: Make IOLs all equal, and try to target 7 for all IOLs? (With RTLs set accordingly.) I don't really get the reasoning behind why it should be 7 for all. What is the significance of 28?

Regardless, does that mean I should set 61/61/60/60 and 7/7/7/7 in my case? And since my tCL is 15, the RTL Init should be 65, right?
Or since I'm on an ASUS, should I do 60/60/60/60 and 6/6/7/7 instead? @Gen.


----------



## depios

techenth said:


> RTL-IOL optimized, fully stable. Improved my 3Dmark CPU score from 9200 to 9700 on a 10600k. Bandwidth around 65k, latency 37-38ns.
> 2x8 4133C18 kit by Team Group.
> 
> View attachment 2468072
> View attachment 2468073


I have the same set msi z490 tomahawk with i5 10600k, can you send me the configs of the bios you use?


----------



## t4t3r

Haven’t been on the thread in a few weeks. Coming here reminds me that I still want an Apex.


----------



## Gen.

@Ichirou , Greetings, my friend. Yes, a combination of 60/60/60/60 and 6/6/7/7 will undoubtedly be the best, since the RTL in channel A must be less than in channel B. Also I would set WRPRE = 34 and RDPRE = 8 or WRPRE = 30 and RDPRE = 6.
Your RTL:
DRAM RTL INIT value [65]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [60]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [60]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [60]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [60]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [60]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [60]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [60]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [60]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [6]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]


----------



## itssladenlol

Gen. said:


> @Ichirou , Greetings, my friend. Yes, a combination of 60/60/60/60 and 6/6/7/7 will undoubtedly be the best, since the RTL in channel A must be less than in channel B. Also I would set WRPRE = 34 and RDPRE = 8 or WRPRE = 30 and RDPRE = 6.
> Your RTL:
> DRAM RTL INIT value [65]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [60]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [60]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [60]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [60]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [60]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [60]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [60]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [60]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [6]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [6]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [6]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [6]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]


Why should the RTL in channel A be lower than in channel B? 
I have zero Problems with apex 4400+ and 66/66/66/66 8/8/8/8.


----------



## TheBoom

itssladenlol said:


> Why should the RTL in channel A be lower than in channel B?
> I have zero Problems with apex 4400+ and 66/66/66/66 8/8/8/8.


If one stick can do 7/7 or any better IOL (which is usually the case) then you are effectively capping your best latency to 8/8 instead.


----------



## itssladenlol

TheBoom said:


> If one stick can do 7/7 or any better IOL (which is usually the case) then you are effectively capping your best latency to 8/8 instead.


7/7 or 8/8 has Same latency for me on apex.
Im running dual rank 4400 c16 1,52v and 4400 c18 1,4v with tightest timings.
4400 c16 7/7/7/7 35,9ns
4400 c16 8/8/8/8 35,9ns
8/8 is more stable with zero downsides for me. (4000% hci, 30000% Karhu, 10hrs gsat, 6 cycles Anta777 extreme) 7/7/7/7 is too tight with my tight timings. 8/8/8/8 works perfect.


----------



## Gen.

@techenth , Your rtl-iol is not optimized at all. They are awful. Set rtl init 67-67, not 63-64 ... 21-21-67-67-62-64-4-4-7-7 will be correct for you.
@itssladenlol , on apex 12, the discrepancy between IOL and RTL can be minimal (that is, at 0). Set IOL 7-7 and count correctly rtl, you have a top segment board, and you make a bad board out of it, even on a cheap a-pro you can get 7-7 in IOL.


----------



## itssladenlol

Gen. said:


> @techenth , Your rtl-iol is not optimized at all. They are awful. Set rtl init 67-67, not 63-64 ... 21-21-67-67-62-64-4-4-7-7 will be correct for you.
> @itssladenlol , on apex 12, the discrepancy between IOL and RTL can be minimal (that is, at 0). Set IOL 7-7 and count correctly rtl, you have a top segment board, and you make a bad board out of it, even on a cheap a-pro you can get 7-7 in IOL.


How do i make a Bad board out of if if i have exact Same latency/read/copy/write with both settings? 
8/8/8/8 gives me the ability to run lower voltage. 
Care to explain, cause i dont see how i make a Bad board out of it, Same latency.


----------



## sixty9sublime

itssladenlol said:


> How do i make a Bad board out of if if i have exact Same latency/read/copy/write with both settings?
> 8/8/8/8 gives me the ability to run lower voltage.
> Care to explain, cause i dont see how i make a Bad board out of it, Same latency.


I'd have to agree, makes no sense if the results are confirmed in benchmarks. How big is the voltage discrepancy running 8/8 instead of 7/7?


----------



## fideb

Can anyone help me figure out why tCKE at 5 gives me better latency than tCKE at 0? These are my AIDA64 benchmark results in safemode, so there is not a lot of stuff running in the background.


http://imgur.com/QnLonuF


tCKE 537.437.437.437.537.237.337.337.437.237.337.237.437.237.337.237.337.437.337.2tCKE 037.937.837.737.737.837.837.837.737.637.737.737.637.738.037.737.637.737.837.7


----------



## TheBoom

fideb said:


> Can anyone help me figure out why tCKE at 5 gives me better latency than tCKE at 0? These are my AIDA64 benchmark results in safemode, so there is not a lot of stuff running in the background.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/QnLonuF
> 
> 
> tCKE 537.437.437.437.537.237.337.337.437.237.337.237.437.237.337.237.337.437.337.2tCKE 037.937.837.737.737.837.837.837.737.637.737.737.637.738.037.737.637.737.837.7


That’s weird. I did notice tcke was not affecting my latency as well until I set ppd 0.

Could be that the board is falling back on an arbitrary value just like if you set tras too low.

Until now if I set tras any lower than tcl+trcd+4 I just get worse performance.


----------



## fideb

TheBoom said:


> That’s weird. I did notice tcke was not affecting my latency as well until I set ppd 0.
> 
> Could be that the board is falling back on an arbitrary value just like if you set tras too low.
> 
> Until now if I set tras any lower than tcl+trcd+4 I just get worse performance.


I think i would need to use MemTweakIt to set ppd since i dont see it in the UEFI, but MemTweakIt doesnt seem to work with new Windows versions? :/


----------



## Gen.

itssladenlol said:


> How do i make a Bad board out of if if i have exact Same latency/read/copy/write with both settings?
> 8/8/8/8 gives me the ability to run lower voltage.
> Care to explain, cause i dont see how i make a Bad board out of it, Same latency.


If you take measurements only in Aida64, then I do not know how we can continue the conversation, I have already written many times that 7 + 21 is the right workout, 8 + 21 is not, it makes sense to leave 8 + 21 if 7+ 21 simply does not work, at 4400 7 + 21 has a place to be


----------



## itssladenlol

Gen. said:


> If you take measurements only in Aida64, then I do not know how we can continue the conversation, I have already written many times that 7 + 21 is the right workout, 8 + 21 is not, it makes sense to leave 8 + 21 if 7+ 21 simply does not work, at 4400 7 + 21 has a place to be


Come down from your high Horse lol. 
All you say is this is Best that is Best. 
Any explanation or evidence? 
"if you only take measurements in Aida" 
Again you act like you know everything, yet you Name no Alternative.
Aida reflects every timing and memory change with values, that improve or decrease. 
I messured my stuff and 7/7/7/7 and 8/8/8/8 is Same for me , period.
Be it Aida, cinebench, geekbench and so on. 
Results are identical. 
Yet the only thing you come up with is bullshit About how im wrong without even pointing anything out or proving anything. 
Then tell me, what does 7/7/7/7 better than 8/8/8/8?
And dont come up with "its the rule x+y" and come up with some actual evidence. 
I have Same NS with both on apex XII and 10900k.
Anyway im tired of this bullshit.


----------



## Ichirou

fideb said:


> Can anyone help me figure out why tCKE at 5 gives me better latency than tCKE at 0? These are my AIDA64 benchmark results in safemode, so there is not a lot of stuff running in the background.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/QnLonuF
> 
> 
> tCKE 537.437.437.437.537.237.337.337.437.237.337.237.437.237.337.237.337.437.337.2tCKE 037.937.837.737.737.837.837.837.737.637.737.737.637.738.037.737.637.737.837.7


Have you tried tCKE at 1 yet? Just to rule things out. Sometimes PCs can stutter with certain overly tight timings, which affects results.
As a rule of thumb, the lowest is not always the best. I've experienced regressive performance with tWR under 10, and tWRRD_dd under 4, for example.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, I managed to beat the 140% UserBenchmark record that some Ryzen 5950X user beat my previous 139% at. I'm now sitting at 141%.
(Not an inflated benchmark; they're daily driver settings.) Virtually every timing is at the lowest possible except for tRFC (haven't tested 610 yet), tRCD+tRP (haven't tried lowering yet), and the RTL/IOLs (need to stabilize those).

















*Edit: *Nevermind, my PC froze at around ~8.5 hours on idle. Going to need to isolate and tweak further.


----------



## fideb

Ichirou said:


> Have you tried tCKE at 1 yet? Just to rule things out. Sometimes PCs can stutter with certain overly tight timings, which affects results.
> As a rule of thumb, the lowest is not always the best. I've experienced regressive performance with tWR under 10, and tWRRD_dd under 4, for example.


Yes, 1 gives the same latency as 0, 3 gives basically the same as 5, gonna test 2 too


----------



## Ichirou

fideb said:


> Yes, 1 gives the same latency as 0, 3 gives basically the same as 5, gonna test 2 too


Let me know how it turns out; I may test a higher value as well.


----------



## Betroz

Gen. said:


> If you take measurements only in Aida64, then I do not know how we can continue the conversation, I have already written many times that 7 + 21 is the right workout, 8 + 21 is not, it makes sense to leave 8 + 21 if 7+ 21 simply does not work, at 4400 7 + 21 has a place to be


For me IOL 7 doesn't work over 4300 with DR sticks. So I use IOL 8 at 4500. (yes Apex)


----------



## SunnyStefan

I see people complaining about the Asus tool MemTweakIt not working for them, I had similiar issues _until_ I tried version 2.2.48.0.
I saw it mentioned here on the Asus forums, this one works for me with my Z490 Apex XII on Windows 10 v2004 (maybe someone else can verify if this works on newer builds, like Win 10 20H2). Here's a direct link to MemTweakIt 2.2.48.0 for those wishing to skip a visit to the Asus forums: MemTweakIt_V20248.zip .


----------



## fideb

SunnyStefan said:


> I see people complaining about the Asus tool MemTweakIt not working for them, I had similiar issues _until_ I tried version 2.2.48.0.
> I saw it mentioned here on the Asus forums, this one works for me with my Z490 Apex XII on Windows 10 v2004 (maybe someone else can verify if this works on newer builds, like Win 10 20H2). Here's a direct link to MemTweakIt 2.2.48.0 for those wishing to skip a visit to the Asus forums: MemTweakIt_V20248.zip .


Its not working for me 
Im on 20H2


http://imgur.com/fRuGYmV


----------



## Arctucas

Gen. said:


> If you take measurements only in Aida64, then I do not know how we can continue the conversation, I have already written many times that 7 + 21 is the right workout, 8 + 21 is not, it makes sense to leave 8 + 21 if 7+ 21 simply does not work, at 4400 7 + 21 has a place to be


So, 6/6 and 21/21 is not good?


----------



## mouacyk

6+21 != 28


----------



## SunnyStefan

fideb said:


> Its not working for me
> Im on 20H2


Damn I was afraid it might not work with the newer versions of Windows 10.
There's an update for Win 10 2004 which breaks compatibility with MemTweakIt, it's likely included in Win 10 20H2.
Luckily this update is not integrated into the base version of 2004 and I'm able to avoid it for now.
MemTweakIt is nice for seeing ALL the RTL timings, ASRock Timing Configurator just doesn't show the same level of detail.


----------



## Arctucas

mouacyk said:


> 6+21 != 28


What does 28 signify?

EDIT: Seriously, what is 28 supposed to be? 

Or, is it some inside joke?


----------



## SgtRotty

hello! i recently started messing with cr1 @ 4000mhz. i have the RTLs trained at 57/59/6/6. i noticed my write and copy speeds are way lower than they should be. is there a setting im missing? ive read it somewhere a few hundred pages back cant seem to find it. i was hoping someone could help me out if they know!


----------



## YaqY

t


SgtRotty said:


> View attachment 2468434
> 
> hello! i recently started messing with cr1 @ 4000mhz. i have the RTLs trained at 57/59/6/6. i noticed my write and copy speeds are way lower than they should be. is there a setting im missing? ive read it somewhere a few hundred pages back cant seem to find it. i was hoping someone could help me out if they know!


twrwr_dg, set it to 4


----------



## itssladenlol

Arctucas said:


> So, 6/6 and 21/21 is not good?
> 
> View attachment 2468402


How dare you 😂
Its Not 7/7/7/7 by the rule so it must be Bad (sarcasm)


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> How dare you 😂
> Its Not 7/7/7/7 by the rule so it must be Bad (sarcasm)


I think @Gen. is just trying to help but the translation makes him come across a bit abrasive sometimes
He obviously has a wealth of knowledge and I also can't get some of his suggestions to work so I do my own thing


----------



## techenth

TheBoom said:


> That’s weird. I did notice tcke was not affecting my latency as well until I set ppd 0.
> 
> Could be that the board is falling back on an arbitrary value just like if you set tras too low.
> 
> Until now if I set tras any lower than tcl+trcd+4 I just get worse performance.


I think that rule was for DDR3. tCL+tRCD+tRTP. Might be your mobo at fault, even some XMP kits are 18181838 19191939 nowadays.
And to my knowledge tcke and txp are only effective when PPD is enabled.


----------



## alexbrad

I tried to play with my 2x16GB 4000C19D-16GTZKK, below is "default" 4000C16, manually setting only the latencies 16-16-16-36 and tREFI to max ...
For stability in memtest / prime95 VRAM 1.42V, VCCIO 1.24V and SA 1.26V set in bios for the time being.
"Well isn't that cute, but it's wrong", horrible latency.









Very little impact reducing tRFC by half, playing with tREFI seems negligible, and the other parameters, reducing them, no effect, latency still horrible.
No chance of having a latency below 40 on the Z490 in the current combination as had on the Z390 ... The 2nd screen below used on the Z390 gave a latency below 37ns ...







I have a feeling it's a little better on 9900K than 10900K, or it's just 20H2... whatever tuning I do, no effect ...


----------



## bigfootnz

Here is link that shamino has posted in ROG forums. This Mem tweakIt works on all versions. But have in mind some settings will not be read correctly but RTl and IOL are correct.


----------



## fideb

bigfootnz said:


> Here is link that shamino has posted in ROG forums. This Mem tweakIt works on all versions. But have in mind some settings will not be read correctly but RTl and IOL are correct.
> 
> View attachment 2468446


When i run that i get this, clicking "Apply" does nothing and clicking "OK" closes the window :/


http://imgur.com/cvgT5kO


----------



## Betroz

alexbrad said:


> I have a feeling it's a little better on 9900K than 10900K, or it's just 20H2... whatever tuning I do, no effect ...


The 10900K has ~2ns worse latency than the 9900K, so that is normal. You can tweak the memory timings more to get better results. Try these settings : (you need to set VDIMM, IO and SA too)










If 4300 Mhz doesn't work, try 4266.


----------



## bigfootnz

fideb said:


> When i run that i get this, clicking "Apply" does nothing and clicking "OK" closes the window :/
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/cvgT5kO


Yes, some users are reporting same problem on XII Extreme, are you on same board?
Here is link for discussion on ROG forum


----------



## fideb

bigfootnz said:


> Yes, some users are reporting same problem on XII Extreme, are you on same board?
> Here is link for discussion on ROG forum


Im on an ancient Maximus Hero VIII Z170 board


----------



## Gen.

Arctucas said:


> So, 6/6 and 21/21 is not good?
> 
> View attachment 2468402


Good training!


----------



## Gen.

munternet said:


> I think @Gen. is just trying to help but the translation makes him come across a bit abrasive sometimes
> He obviously has a wealth of knowledge and I also can't get some of his suggestions to work so I do my own thing


Yes, I'm just trying to help you for good purposes, perhaps the translator makes me rude to you


----------



## Placekicker19

I have tried everything possible to get latency down and i just cant get it any lower. The z390 dark set rtl and iol extremely tight but the z490 dark sets them awfully loose. 4800mhz is no problem but theres no point because of the higher latency. 
My other scores seem decent though, just cant get latency down. I think if evga added a ppd setting it would help. Anyone else have any tips . 
4400 cl17 
Read 66598
Write 67679
Copy 62891
36.7


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> I have tried everything possible to get latency down and i just cant get it any lower. The z390 dark set rtl and iol extremely tight but the z490 dark sets them awfully loose. 4800mhz is no problem but theres no point because of the higher latency.
> My other scores seem decent though, just cant get latency down. I think if evga added a ppd setting it would help. Anyone else have any tips .
> 4400 cl17
> Read 66598
> Write 67679
> Copy 62891
> 36.7


try tCKE=0.


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> try tCKE=0.


 1 is the lowest i can set on dark. I wrote evga and asked if they could add a ppd setting and if they could also allow "0" to be set on certain timing. They said they would look into it to see if its possible, lol, you know what that means, maybe evga will surprise me though. 

tCKE=1 didnt make a difference


----------



## Gen.

Placekicker19 said:


> I have tried everything possible to get latency down and i just cant get it any lower. The z390 dark set rtl and iol extremely tight but the z490 dark sets them awfully loose. 4800mhz is no problem but theres no point because of the higher latency.
> My other scores seem decent though, just cant get latency down. I think if evga added a ppd setting it would help. Anyone else have any tips .
> 4400 cl17
> Read 66598
> Write 67679
> Copy 62891
> 36.7


tREFI = 65024
tRTP = 6
tWR = 12
tWTR_S = 3
tWRRD_dg = 25
According to my observations, you have good settings. Delay is fine. You have IOL Offset Now = 15, IOL 13 and 12. Can you write rtl manually into the BIOS?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> 1 is the lowest i can set on dark. I wrote evga and asked if they could add a ppd setting and if they could also allow "0" to be set on certain timing. They said they would look into it to see if its possible, lol, you know what that means, maybe evga will surprise me though.
> 
> tCKE=1 didnt make a difference


Yes, if tCKE=1, it would lead to the power-down mode, and txp (~7), txpdll (~20-25) and such would come into effect. Only turn off tCKE can invalidate the power down.

RTL & IOL also have room to improve.

Your aida latency with 10900K should be around 35ns if well tuned.


----------



## ViTosS

Like @Carillo said I was able to reduce my IOL CHB from 7 to 6 by changing RTL from 61 to 60 (latency dropped from 34.9 to 34.7ns), it passed Extreme1 Anta without problem, should I bother stress testing with other apps and Prime 112k FFTs or is it fine?


----------



## alexbrad

so after I tuned a bit more some parameters, latency drop is almost not there









then I increased the frequency to 4266, had to make them 16-17-17-37, bumped the RAM voltage to 1.5V to boot, tried a quick test with "default" settings,








again tuning








and then... increased cache from 4.4GHz to 4.8GHz, and finally I'm under 40 =))








the effort simply does not worth of course, for daily use with a higher cache I'll have to find another VCORE again...

Arctucas / Betroz - both of you have the 4000C19 2x16 kit?
Not sure if Betroz (or someone else?) posted months ago on a Dark mobo with a 9900K similar settings as above, except trefi 15000, ram frequency @ 4000, and latency was under 37...

And... by the way - a general question, since different sources state contradictory information wrt VCCSA and VCCIO:
VCCSA helps with frequency and VCCIO helps with timings and/or high capacity, or is it the other way around? Or depends from case to case?
Also, as a general note is that VCCIO it's supposed to be 50-100mV less than SA, but I noticed sometimes that for lower latencies IO voltage could be a little bit higher than the SA.


----------



## GeneO

bigfootnz said:


> Here is link that shamino has posted in ROG forums. This Mem tweakIt works on all versions. But have in mind some settings will not be read correctly but RTl and IOL are correct.
> 
> View attachment 2468446


It doesn't work properly. It displays incorrect values for many timings and some are blank:


----------



## Placekicker19

I was able to get latency a little lower. This board just cant get it lower without the ppd setting.


----------



## Arctucas

itssladenlol said:


> How dare you 😂
> Its Not 7/7/7/7 by the rule so it must be Bad (sarcasm)


Only a two DIMM board...


----------



## Carillo

ViTosS said:


> Like @Carillo said I was able to reduce my IOL CHB from 7 to 6 by changing RTL from 61 to 60 (latency dropped from 34.9 to 34.7ns), it passed Extreme1 Anta without problem, should I bother stress testing with other apps and Prime 112k FFTs or is it fine?


Well, depends on your usage, is my opinion a least.


----------



## Arctucas

alexbrad said:


> <SNIP>
> 
> Arctucas / Betroz - both of you have the 4000C19 2x16 kit?
> Not sure if Betroz (or someone else?) posted months ago on a Dark mobo with a 9900K similar settings as above, except trefi 15000, ram frequency @ 4000, and latency was under 37...
> 
> <SNIP>


GSKILL F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW


----------



## 638220

Santa came early this year. Quick OC Report for Two kits of GSkill Ripjaws F4-4266C17D-16GVKB on the z390 aorus master. Very good dimms.

[email protected]


----------



## SunnyStefan

blacknbigger212 said:


> Santa came early this year. Quick OC Report for Two kits of GSkill Ripjaws F4-4266C17D-16GVKB on the z390 aorus master. Very good dimms.
> 
> [email protected]


You share allllllll that information yet none of it includes your timings? Stop being a tease . Nice latency though.


----------



## 638220

SunnyStefan said:


> You share allllllll that information yet none of it includes your timings? Stop being a tease



I don't want to spoil the kit(s) for those who enjoy a sense of discovery when overclocking. I'll just say that the primary timings are better than what the xmp profile offers while using the same dram voltage. PPD was also set to zero via memtweak it. 28 out of 30 residuals matching, maybe something went off in the background during linpack but we still passed all residual checks thankfully. Ran an hour of occt large avx2 as a heat test and to hammer the cache. Over the next week I will try for 4400/4500/4533/4600 as long as sa/io remain at 1.35 bios set but I have a feeling that 4500 and higher will require bios set 1.4v of each.


----------



## SgtRotty

YaqY said:


> t
> 
> twrwr_dg, set it to 4


Unfortunately that didn't work. I tried twrwr_sg as well set to 4. It trained well but still have low read and copy speeds. I'll keep trying, possibly need to lower frequency for cr1?


----------



## bxcounter

F4-3600C15D-16GTZ @ 4100 17-17-17-36-1T 1.35v

[email protected] = 12h pass, Hci memtest = 13000 pass 

Had to bump IO/SA to break 10000 hci memtest.


----------



## alexbrad

ViTosS said:


> Like @Carillo said I was able to reduce my IOL CHB from 7 to 6 by changing RTL from 61 to 60 (latency dropped from 34.9 to 34.7ns), it passed Extreme1 Anta without problem, should I bother stress testing with other apps and Prime 112k FFTs or is it fine?


so far I did 800 min/max, left default how much it needs and 6 mins... 
noticed that after 30-40 mins there is a critical test when 6 mins is left, otherwise increasing that to 10-15 mins noticed that occurs later

additionally I'm doing HCI + helper until 130-150% or so and the bootable USB memtest, 7.5, teste 7,8,9 and 13 for at least 10 times


----------



## Placekicker19

Gen. said:


> tREFI = 65024
> tRTP = 6
> tWR = 12
> tWTR_S = 3
> tWRRD_dg = 25
> According to my observations, you have good settings. Delay is fine. You have IOL Offset Now = 15, IOL 13 and 12. Can you write rtl manually into the BIOS?


Yeah i can write rtl manually. If i just use a IOL offset the lowest i can go stable is 13 but doing this only changes my RTL ves. IOLS remain the same
15/4 14/4 . I found lowering iol offset then adjusting rtl and iols down fave best performance.


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yes, if tCKE=1, it would lead to the power-down mode, and txp (~7), txpdll (~20-25) and such would come into effect. Only turn off tCKE can invalidate the power down.
> 
> RTL & IOL also have room to improve.
> 
> Your aida latency with 10900K should be around 35ns if well tuned.


So if I set tCKE=1 , what should txp and txpdll be set to. It seems txp doesnt effect performance until going below 4, which i take a 2ns latency hit when doing.

Ive tried everything with rtls &iols and any tighter wont train, the system locks up with "55" error code. I think this boards memory is more optimized for read/write speeds and not latency.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> So if I set tCKE=1 , what should txp and txpdll be set to. It seems txp doesnt effect performance until going below 4, which i take a 2ns latency hit when doing.
> 
> Ive tried everything with rtls &iols and any tighter wont train, the system locks up with "55" error code. I think this boards memory is more optimized for read/write speeds and not latency.


txp=4 should be a reasonable value. txpdll can be lowered to 16 or further (kind of related to DLLBWEN). err 55 is a training error on ASUS, but you need to check with your EVGA manual.

IOL offset only lowers RTL because IOL offset only affects the RTL calculation. (rtl=iol+iol offset+...).


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Like @Carillo said I was able to reduce my IOL CHB from 7 to 6 by changing RTL from 61 to 60 (latency dropped from 34.9 to 34.7ns), it passed Extreme1 Anta without problem, should I bother stress testing with other apps and Prime 112k FFTs or is it fine?


I like to run GSAT after passing Extreme1, even if it's just a short run initially. It finds errors quickly that TM5 doesn't look for.
Link in my sig if you don't have it installed already


----------



## 638220

munternet said:


> I like to run GSAT after passing Extreme1, even if it's just a short run initially. It finds errors quickly that TM5 doesn't look for.
> Link in my sig if you don't have it installed already


Is gsat an online only stress test or can this test be ran without wifi/ethernet?


----------



## munternet

blacknbigger212 said:


> Is gsat an online only stress test or can this test be ran without wifi/ethernet?


Offline is fine once you download the required files for the install
Check out the link in my sig for instructions


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> txp=4 should be a reasonable value. txpdll can be lowered to 16 or further (kind of related to DLLBWEN). err 55 is a training error on ASUS, but you need to check with your EVGA manual.
> 
> IOL offset only lowers RTL because IOL offset only affects the RTL calculation. (rtl=iol+iol offset+...).


Ok thanks . 55 is the same for evga. I was able to get 4500 c17 stable and it has the same latency as 4400 c16 of 36.3, 4500 c17 has much better read and write scores close to 69k though. I can get 4600cl17 stable, unfortunately it takes 1.6v dimm , 1.25 io, 1.3 sa. My ram stays cool, i just dont know how safe 1.6 dimm would be for daily. 

The z390 dark had great latency, but read,write and copy were lower. The z490 dark has much better read, write and copy, at the same frequency/timings, however latency is worse. 

I saw some z490 dark results using 4800 cl14 with very tight rtls, and latency was 34.8. Evga also told me they had no current plans to add smart access memory. Ppd control and smart access memory are important and every other board manufacture has them. I wish evga step up their game, it doesn't matter how good your customer service is when your highend products are missing important features.


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> Ok thanks . 55 is the same for evga. I was able to get 4500 c17 stable and it has the same latency as 4400 c16 of 36.3, 4500 c17 has much better read and write scores close to 69k though. I can get 4600cl17 stable, unfortunately it takes 1.6v dimm , 1.25 io, 1.3 sa. My ram stays cool, i just dont know how safe 1.6 dimm would be for daily.
> 
> The z390 dark had great latency, but read,write and copy were lower. The z490 dark has much better read, write and copy, at the same frequency/timings, however latency is worse.
> 
> I saw some z490 dark results using 4800 cl14 with very tight rtls, and latency was 34.8. Evga also told me they had no current plans to add smart access memory. Ppd control and smart access memory are important and every other board manufacture has them. I wish evga step up their game, it doesn't matter how good your customer service is when your highend products are missing important features.


I wrote them Almost two months ago and they Werent interested in the slightest to add ppd control in bios or fix Bugs. 
Thats why i Send my z490 dark back and got an apex. 
Now i run everything without Problems.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Ok thanks . 55 is the same for evga. I was able to get 4500 c17 stable and it has the same latency as 4400 c16 of 36.3, 4500 c17 has much better read and write scores close to 69k though. I can get 4600cl17 stable, unfortunately it takes 1.6v dimm , 1.25 io, 1.3 sa. My ram stays cool, i just dont know how safe 1.6 dimm would be for daily.
> 
> The z390 dark had great latency, but read,write and copy were lower. The z490 dark has much better read, write and copy, at the same frequency/timings, however latency is worse.
> 
> I saw some z490 dark results using 4800 cl14 with very tight rtls, and latency was 34.8. Evga also told me they had no current plans to add smart access memory. Ppd control and smart access memory are important and every other board manufacture has them. I wish evga step up their game, it doesn't matter how good your customer service is when your highend products are missing important features.


34.8ns was a terrible result for 4800C14. I can do 34ns with only 4533c16. I also heard a lot issues with EVGA's 30 cards. Hope they could focus more on improving their products.

Your volts are totally safe for Z490 and the sticks. I am running 1.35 io, 1.44 sa for 4533 16-17-28 DR sticks over 3 mo. Vdimm is at 1.6. The only thing you need to pay attention to is DIMM temp. You need good airflow to keep it below 55c, otherwise the sticks may not be stable.


----------



## techenth

Finally got my F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB. Some of the settings posted here helped me a bunch.
I've got 1.3 IO 1.4 SA 1.52VDIMM on them now. 66-68-63k, 38ns. HCI, TM5 stable.
Can boot 4600C19 but requires 1.55SA. Tightening them would require a lot more.

Only problem I have now is that I can not set my IOL-RTLS. I know how to set them, it just doesn't boot.
62/64/7/7-63/65/8/8-64/66/9/9 no avail. I enable RTL training and disable IOL training in BIOS when I set those. Can not get a post. Increasing SA/VCIO did not help either. Tried setting them right after primaries, different ODTs, changing DIMM slots etc. nothing helped.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## sixty9sublime

techenth said:


> Finally got my F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB. Some of the settings posted here helped me a bunch.
> I've got 1.3 IO 1.4 SA 1.52VDIMM on them now. 66-68-63k, 38ns. HCI, TM5 stable.
> Can boot 4600C19 but requires 1.55SA. Tightening them would require a lot more.
> 
> Only problem I have now is that I can not set my IOL-RTLS. I know how to set them, it just doesn't boot.
> 62/64/7/7-63/65/8/8-64/66/9/9 no avail. I enable RTL training and disable IOL training in BIOS when I set those. Can not get a post. Increasing SA/VCIO did not help either. Tried setting them right after primaries, different ODTs, changing DIMM slots etc. nothing helped.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2468835


Under Latency Timing Control (RTL/IOL), set to Fixed mode first. Save and Restart. Go back in the BIOS and change to Dynamic mode and see if you have better luck getting them to train. I've had pretty good luck using this method on the Unify. Trying to input values like "62/64/7/7-63/65/8/8-64/66/9/9" while in Auto mode or fixed sometimes just wouldn't take. I'm starting to wonder if Dynamic Mode = Round Trip Latency Optimize (seen in MSI z390 boards). Could be way off, anyway, hope it helps.


----------



## Gen.

Greetings friends. For 4400CL16 you need to set it up like mine.
In manual mode, your rtl will not be applied, you need to reboot and achieve automatic iol 7-7-7-7 and your rtl will be 62-62-64-64, which is correct. Just take a look at my album and settings.








DR 4400CL16


Intel Core i5 10400 Box (SRH78) + MSI MAG Z490 Tomahawk (Bios 1.30) + G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3000 14-14-14-34 1.35V XMP




ibb.co


----------



## techenth

Gen. said:


> Greetings friends. For 4400CL16 you need to set it up like mine.
> In manual mode, your rtl will not be applied, you need to reboot and achieve automatic iol 7-7-7-7 and your rtl will be 62-62-64-64, which is correct. Just take a look at my album and settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DR 4400CL16
> 
> 
> Intel Core i5 10400 Box (SRH78) + MSI MAG Z490 Tomahawk (Bios 1.30) + G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3000 14-14-14-34 1.35V XMP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ibb.co


This was super helpful thank you so much. You saved me at least a day. All I did was put my voltages, ODT settings and bam 9500 on Geekbench.
Now I'm trying to get the board to train IOLs, one is at 8 other is at 7. Then I'll disable training for the board and call it a day.

Cheers.




sixty9sublime said:


> Under Latency Timing Control (RTL/IOL), set to Fixed mode first. Save and Restart. Go back in the BIOS and change to Dynamic mode and see if you have better luck getting them to train. I've had pretty good luck using this method on the Unify. Trying to input values like "62/64/7/7-63/65/8/8-64/66/9/9" while in Auto mode or fixed sometimes just wouldn't take. I'm starting to wonder if Dynamic Mode = Round Trip Latency Optimize (seen in MSI z390 boards). Could be way off, anyway, hope it helps.


It seems to trigger the training sequence by changing from auto to fixed to dynamic. Thank you.


----------



## Gen.

Applying Auto, Dynamic Mode or Fixed Mode will not affect manual workout input. You need to put Memory Fast Boot = Disabled and train until you get 7-7-7-7 in iol. Once this is achieved, make Memory Fast Boot = No training (you do not need to set Enabled) to disable the workout. But after installing Memory Fast Boot = No training, you will not be able to change timings and other settings in DRAM Configuration, you need to understand this. Good luck with the setup, I hope my settings are useful to someone


----------



## techenth

This is what I ended up with. Thank you for all the help.


----------



## Gen.

I usually raise VCIIO and VCCSA to 1.36 / 1.44 for training

I also recommend trying tRCD = 16 and tRP = 16. You may need to do tWTR_L = 8 / tWRRD_sg = 30 and tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 7. Raise tRFC to 328 to see if voltage can be reduced


----------



## Placekicker19

itssladenlol said:


> I wrote them Almost two months ago and they Werent interested in the slightest to add ppd control in bios or fix Bugs.
> Thats why i Send my z490 dark back and got an apex.
> Now i run everything without Problems.


Yeah my next board will be a apex. I was always a asus board user until 9th gen intel. It really is disappointing evga is missing features and wont update the bios to support them.


----------



## Salve1412

So I got this F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB kit perfectly stable at 4400MHz 16-17-17-36 with tightened secondaries and tertiaries and low RTL/IOL (62/62/63/63 7/7/7/7) at 1.48V DRAM Voltage with my 10900K needing only VCCIO 1.21V VCCSA 1.24V. Board is a Maximus XII Extreme. I am using slots A2&B2.

I'm trying to raise the overclock to 4533, with same primaries, tightened subtimings and low RTL-IOL (I managed to boot only 63/63/64/65/ 8/8/8/8, IOL 7s seem unbootable). I'm testing this with 1.51V DRAM Voltage, 1.28V VCCIO and 1.32V VCCSA. If I test the sticks separately they pass 1hour GSAT no problem, but if I put them together the same test fails after variable amounts of time (sometimes just a few seconds after it started).

I tried to raise VCCIO, VCCSA, DRAM Voltage, manually set DLLBwen and Skew control (I literally tried dozens of combinations), but I still can't pass a single hour of GSAT in Dual Channel. Do you think I am reaching my IMC limits and/or this board simply "isn't an Apex" so that it's better to give up? It's too bad, because these dual rank sticks seem to handle so well this frequency/timings combination...


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 34.8ns was a terrible result for 4800C14. I can do 34ns with only 4533c16. I also heard a lot issues with EVGA's 30 cards. Hope they could focus more on improving their products.
> 
> Your volts are totally safe for Z490 and the sticks. I am running 1.35 io, 1.44 sa for 4533 16-17-28 DR sticks over 3 mo. Vdimm is at 1.6. The only thing you need to pay attention to is DIMM temp. You need good airflow to keep it below 55c, otherwise the sticks may not be stable.


The z390 would do 35ns with 4400c17 without even tightening most timings. 4500 c17, with every timing tight on the z490 dark has latency between 38-40ns, tightening rtls can get it down to 36.3. When 4800 c14 extremely tight is only getting 34.8, I really cant expect to get better latency at my frequency and timings. I wonder if ppd set to 0 would even Improve things on the z490 dark. 

Yeah I've heard about the issue with 30 series, its sad, especially since evga was always my go to cards since the 680 classifieds. I was messing skew control and corrupt windows, my programs were corrupted and I would get insta bsods with any load. Is skew control more important for dual rank?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> The z390 would do 35ns with 4400c17 without even tightening most timings. 4500 c17, with every timing tight on the z490 dark has latency between 38-40ns, tightening rtls can get it down to 36.3. When 4800 c14 extremely tight is only getting 34.8, I really cant expect to get better latency at my frequency and timings. I wonder if ppd set to 0 would even Improve things on the z490 dark.
> 
> Yeah I've heard about the issue with 30 series, its sad, especially since evga was always my go to cards since the 680 classifieds. I was messing skew control and corrupt windows, my programs were corrupted and I would get insta bsods with any load. Is skew control more important for dual rank?


Yeah, especially the ODT. Can be a big difference.


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yeah, especially the ODT. Can be a big difference.


Odt is just the WR, park, and nom settings right? I need to get me a 32gb kit. Not a fan of newegg though, last time i attempted a purchase there was a 1080ti, got doubled charge and they said they ran out of stock, so I payed double and didn't even get the card.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Odt is just the WR, park, and nom settings right? I need to get me a 32gb kit. Not a fan of newegg though, last time i attempted a purchase there was a 1080ti, got doubled charge and they said they ran out of stock, so I payed double and didn't even get the card.


Yup, just WR, NOM, PARK. Ive bought dozens of sticks from NE. Nothing wrong. They always stock the newest GS kits. You can try 4000C16D, 3800C14D, or 3600C14D


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup, just WR, NOM, PARK. Ive bought dozens of sticks from NE. Nothing wrong. They always stock the newest GS kits. You can try 4000C16D, 3800C14D, or 3600C14D


Yeah, there's really no other place to get the newest fastest kits. I had a issue yesterday, i took my ram out and when I reinstalled it and loaded into windows, I bsoded in like 30 seconds. I tried to restart only to insta bsod. I traced the issue down the Slot B, it took reinstalling the ram 5xs for it to finally load windows without bsoding, once it did, it passed testmem5 without issue. To get it working, i had to gently pull up on the ram stick after the 2 hinges locked into place. I wonder if this was the same issue I had with the z390 dark, the ram was not making proper contact in the slot causing errors. Even though its working now I think I'm done with evga boards for awhile, asus will be my next build.

Nevermind back to the instant bsods. How can I boot one time and run fine, pass tm5 without errors but now I'm getting instant bsods trying to log into windows.


----------



## Hequaqua

Hey everyone.....new to the Intel side of things, and I'm a bit lost....been over on team Red since Zen launched. 

Trying to get my ram dialed in a bit better.

My kit is the Corsair Vengence CMW16GX4M2Z4000C18

At the moment just XMP enabled. It seems that while a lot of the settings are familiar across platforms, I'm not sure where to start. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Here are my current timings:










To be honest, I'm a bit overwhelmed....I haven't been on Intel since my Z87/4770k....lol


----------



## Arctucas

Placekicker19 said:


> Yeah, there's really no other place to get the newest fastest kits. I had a issue yesterday, i took my ram out and when I reinstalled it and loaded into windows, I bsoded in like 30 seconds. I tried to restart only to insta bsod. I traced the issue down the Slot B, it took reinstalling the ram 5xs for it to finally load windows without bsoding, once it did, it passed testmem5 without issue. To get it working, i had to gently pull up on the ram stick after the 2 hinges locked into place. I wonder if this was the same issue I had with the z390 dark, the ram was not making proper contact in the slot causing errors. Even though its working now I think I'm done with evga boards for awhile, asus will be my next build.
> 
> Nevermind back to the instant bsods. How can I boot one time and run fine, pass tm5 without errors but now I'm getting instant bsods trying to log into windows.


This happens with several different kits?

You know, eVGA has really good RMA.


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> Yeah, there's really no other place to get the newest fastest kits. I had a issue yesterday, i took my ram out and when I reinstalled it and loaded into windows, I bsoded in like 30 seconds. I tried to restart only to insta bsod. I traced the issue down the Slot B, it took reinstalling the ram 5xs for it to finally load windows without bsoding, once it did, it passed testmem5 without issue. To get it working, i had to gently pull up on the ram stick after the 2 hinges locked into place. I wonder if this was the same issue I had with the z390 dark, the ram was not making proper contact in the slot causing errors. Even though its working now I think I'm done with evga boards for awhile, asus will be my next build.
> 
> Nevermind back to the instant bsods. How can I boot one time and run fine, pass tm5 without errors but now I'm getting instant bsods trying to log into windows.


Evga boards are garbage, returned my z490 dark for apex, no issues since.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Yeah, there's really no other place to get the newest fastest kits. I had a issue yesterday, i took my ram out and when I reinstalled it and loaded into windows, I bsoded in like 30 seconds. I tried to restart only to insta bsod. I traced the issue down the Slot B, it took reinstalling the ram 5xs for it to finally load windows without bsoding, once it did, it passed testmem5 without issue. To get it working, i had to gently pull up on the ram stick after the 2 hinges locked into place. I wonder if this was the same issue I had with the z390 dark, the ram was not making proper contact in the slot causing errors. Even though its working now I think I'm done with evga boards for awhile, asus will be my next build.
> 
> Nevermind back to the instant bsods. How can I boot one time and run fine, pass tm5 without errors but now I'm getting instant bsods trying to log into windows.


Maybe just build quality issues. Never had such problems with Asus. The pins on the sticks are long enough to cover enough places for the slot to contact.

You can check the traces on the ram pins to see where did they go in the slot. I suggest just ask for an RMA.


----------



## eminded1

hi.. i have a new kit iv been triing to OC. its a 64gb kit 2x32GB Dimms clocked at 4000mhz c17 22 22 42
i can boot into windows at 4400mhz with timing set to 19, 26 , 46 1.5vdimm, 1.4 vccio and 1.4vccsa but its not stable errors in kahru after a minute. since these are dual rank dimms what should i do to get them stable at 4400 c19? and they are SK Hynix chips. what is the max voltage for SK Hynix and how far could i take these. im on a z490 Maximus XII Hero and a i9 10900kf let me know thanks

i was able to boot 4400mhz c19 26 46 and load up programs but it failed kahru.. what can i do to improve stability?
I attached a picture at 4400mhz.


----------



## morph.

Does anyone know what tRFC cycle time 2 & 4 in asus bios should be?

Should it be equal to tRFC or less? What's the maths?


----------



## Gen.

Hello, friends. Closer to the new year or a little later, the F4-4266C16D-16GVK kit will come to me. It cost me $ 126 ($ 140 - 10% discount as a new user) + ~ $ 15 shipping to Russia through an intermediary. If you are interested in the review, mention me here. I will try 4800 CL17 +. I'm on APEX XI + 9900KF now. Also, a second test system will soon come to me in the form of the Z490 Tomahawk + 10600KF BOX (which cost about $ 200 for the Chinese market). I have a good IMC, 1.2 / 1.28 was enough for me 4533 17-17-1T 1.5V in 2 * 8 GB. I hope the translator has conveyed the correct information to you.


----------



## Placekicker19

What timings would most likely cause the system to instant crash/bsod during boot or load. I'm testing 4500 17 17 17 with tight secondaries, auto tertiaries and am booting and running tm5 fine without error. So its either a tertiary or combination of timings being to tight. I'm thinking my room temp being 4f higher has impacted my stability , now I'm just trying to determine which timing is the culprit.


----------



## munternet

Placekicker19 said:


> What timings would most likely cause the system to instant crash/bsod during boot or load. I'm testing 4500 17 17 17 with tight secondaries, auto tertiaries and am booting and running tm5 fine without error. So its either a tertiary or combination of timings being to tight. I'm thinking my room temp being 4f higher has impacted my stability , now I'm just trying to determine which timing is the culprit.


Have you tried lowering the CPU overclock temporarily to see if it helps?
Also have you run GSAT? What other tests do you use?


Gen. said:


> Hello, friends. Closer to the new year or a little later, the F4-4266C16D-16GVK kit will come to me. It cost me $ 126 ($ 140 - 10% discount as a new user) + ~ $ 15 shipping to Russia through an intermediary. If you are interested in the review, mention me here. I will try 4800 CL17 +. I'm on APEX XI + 9900KF now. Also, a second test system will soon come to me in the form of the Z490 Tomahawk + 10600KF BOX (which cost about $ 200 for the Chinese market). I have a good IMC, 1.2 / 1.28 was enough for me 4533 17-17-1T 1.5V in 2 * 8 GB. I hope the translator has conveyed the correct information to you.


I look forward to seeing your results


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Maybe just build quality issues. Never had such problems with Asus. The pins on the sticks are long enough to cover enough places for the slot to contact.
> 
> You can check the traces on the ram pins to see where did they go in the slot. I suggest just ask for an RMA.


Yeah it wasnt that. One boot & test would work fine and the next 4 insta bsod. I put my tertiary on auto and everything is running ok, now I'm just trying to figure out which timings are causing it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Yeah it wasnt that. One boot & test would work fine and the next 4 insta bsod. I put my tertiary on auto and everything is running ok, now I'm just trying to figure out which timings are causing it.


Probably ODT and RTL & IOL. Its better to fix those. Different temperature conditions may cause some drifts during post.


----------



## Placekicker19

munternet said:


> Have you tried lowering the CPU overclock temporarily to see if it helps?
> Also have you run GSAT? What other tests do you use?
> 
> I look forward to seeing your results


Yeah, I did a bios flash and fresh windows install to take all variables out. My cpu was at stock and only ram overclocked. One stick runs fine with all timings tight in the slot, but the other requires slightly loser tertiary timings.

I normally test with tm5 and prime 112k. Ive never used GSAT.


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Probably ODT and RTL & IOL. Its better to fix those. Different temperature conditions may cause some drifts during post.


The first testing I did was with my usual tight timings, but leaving odt and rtls on auto. This might of worked fine 1 out of 5 boots. Next i put tertiaries timings on auto and everything worked fine. Maybe i need to set my odt, do you think 80 40 40 is a decent range for single rank? 80 34 0 would error after like 9 min of tm5. Most info I can find on odt is for dual rank. Can you damage anything trying different ODT combinations?

At the beginning i did most my testing with a room temp of 67, the last 2 days its been around 72 though.

Has anyone tried these sticks? I know they are a older variant of 2x16gb and im not sure if they overclock as well as the newer editions.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071VRMFDQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_.G11FbWQ01BM0


----------



## bigfootnz

I'm looking to buy 2x16 memory instead of 4x8. I've wanted firstly F4-3600C14D-32GTRG but it is out of stock. Then I was looking into these:

F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB
F4-3600C16D-32GTZN
F4-4000C16D-32GVK
F4-3200C14D-32GTZN
Are any of these good for 4266-4400 on Hero XII or I should wait for F4-3600C14D-32GTRG? Thanks


----------



## 638220

[email protected] - Used the github ddr4 guide - minimum recommended coverage 5,000% - PPD was left at 1 for the test and benchmark.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> The first testing I did was with my usual tight timings, but leaving odt and rtls on auto. This might of worked fine 1 out of 5 boots. Next i put tertiaries timings on auto and everything worked fine. Maybe i need to set my odt, do you think 80 40 40 is a decent range for single rank? 80 34 0 would error after like 9 min of tm5. Most info I can find on odt is for dual rank. Can you damage anything trying different ODT combinations?
> 
> At the beginning i did most my testing with a room temp of 67, the last 2 days its been around 72 though.
> 
> Has anyone tried these sticks? I know they are a older variant of 2x16gb and im not sure if they overclock as well as the newer editions.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071VRMFDQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_.G11FbWQ01BM0


You may try the combinations of 80-40-40, 80-48-40, 80-48-0 or so. Im using 80-48-48 for CHA and 80-48-34 for CHB.

ODT wont hurt anything. Those values are just ohms. The only thing it affects is the training. If feel difficult when training, just reset the BIOS and everything will be fine.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bigfootnz said:


> I'm looking to buy 2x16 memory instead of 4x8. I've wanted firstly F4-3600C14D-32GTRG but it is out of stock. Then I was looking into these:
> 
> F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB
> F4-3600C16D-32GTZN
> F4-4000C16D-32GVK
> F4-3200C14D-32GTZN
> Are any of these good for 4266-4400 on Hero XII or I should wait for F4-3600C14D-32GTRG? Thanks


If you want the best kit, wait for 3800C14D-32GTZN to be restocked.


----------



## bigfootnz

Not sure that I want to wait too long. What is your opinion on those four? I know that they are not the best but how far they are from the best?


----------



## gecko991

Just scored a set of F4 4000 C17 32G, Newegg.


----------



## bigfootnz

This kit F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB?


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You may try the combinations of 80-40-40, 80-48-40, 80-48-0 or so. Im using 80-48-48 for CHA and 80-48-34 for CHB.
> 
> ODT wont hurt anything. Those values are just ohms. The only thing it affects is the training. If feel difficult when training, just reset the BIOS and everything will be fine.


Thanks, I'll test using a lower "NOM" value for channel B, thats one thing I havn't experimented with. 

After much testing I believe I found the cause of my bsods. Yesterday when I did my testing tRTP was on auto "8", today when I lowered it to "6" and ran tm5 for a hour it bsod, no errors, just a "unexpected error bsod". I tried to reboot several times and it bsod every time during boot into windows. I raised tRTP to 8 and its been running fine all day. I looked at my old z390 setting with this ram and tRTP wouldnt even train at 8 on that board.


----------



## munternet

I finally got around to doing a little tightening, tuning and testing. Been far too busy lately playing BFV 
I found that with 4600-16-17-17 I need tRAS @36 to pass GSAT. tRAS @34 was fine with TM5 Extreme but not GSAT
Set Voltages are:
vdimm = 1.57
vccio = 1.43
vccsa = 1.48
@OLDFATSHEEP are these voltages OK in your view for 24/7?
Temps are fine at under 38°c
Can run with lower voltages with looser RTLs....


----------



## lolhaxz

G-Skill 4266 C17 sticks @ 4133 CL16 - about as tight as this motherboard will _reliably_ go - otherwise, getting random errors on MemTest (Test 6, Block move - Memory scrambler disabled to expedite errors)

VCCSA/VCCIO do not seen to help to any large extent, in fact once getting beyond 1.3v for both it tends to make it worse. Currently running 1.25v/1.25v.

Even trying to move many of the tertiary timings from 8->7 etc introduces Test 6 errors, 4200MHz and beyond also introduces random errors.

When I say random errors, I mean, 1 boot will be fine next 5 errors, then fine again... clearly a training issue, almost every timing is manually set and I always reboot a handful of times with round trip latency enabled and lock in semi-reasonable RTL's. It always boots but its a gamble as to wither it will pass a stress test anything much above current screenshots (100% rock solid repeatable)

Any ideas? changing skew settings helps prolong it but they are not having much more impact than ~50mhz..


----------



## Placekicker19

munternet said:


> I finally got around to doing a little tightening, tuning and testing. Been far too busy lately playing BFV
> I found that with 4600-16-17-17 I need tRAS @36 to pass GSAT. tRAS @34 was fine with TM5 Extreme but not GSAT
> Set Voltages are:
> vdimm = 1.57
> vccio = 1.43
> vccsa = 1.48
> @OLDFATSHEEP are these voltages OK in your view for 24/7?
> Temps are fine at under 38°c
> Can run with lower voltages with looser RTLs....
> View attachment 2469515


Nice clocks and scores. From my research up to 1.45 IO and 1.5-1.55 SA is safe for daily. 1.65sa is ok for benching, but every cpu behaves differently and there have been reports of 1.65sa killing a cpu after weeks of really pushing it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> I finally got around to doing a little tightening, tuning and testing. Been far too busy lately playing BFV
> I found that with 4600-16-17-17 I need tRAS @36 to pass GSAT. tRAS @34 was fine with TM5 Extreme but not GSAT
> Set Voltages are:
> vdimm = 1.57
> vccio = 1.43
> vccsa = 1.48
> @OLDFATSHEEP are these voltages OK in your view for 24/7?
> Temps are fine at under 38°c
> Can run with lower voltages with looser RTLs....
> View attachment 2469515


Its totally safe. Intel spec for the mobile 10 gen cpu has the limit of 1.52V sa, so anything below that should satisfy the spec.

R/W/C seem a little bit low. For 4600 16-17 it should be around 71/71/69. Maybe its caused by tWRWR_dr=9. Can try to set it to 7.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Its totally safe. Intel spec for the mobile 10 gen cpu has the limit of 1.52V sa, so anything below that should satisfy the spec.
> 
> R/W/C seem a little bit low. For 4600 16-17 it should be around 71/71/69. Maybe its caused by tWRWR_dr=9. Can try to set it to 7.


Thanks mate  
I will try lowering tWRWR_dr=9 and see what happens but I think I need that for stability. I will check and see
I spent the best part of a day setting tertiaries with maximum stability being the primary goal with a view to working toward maximum frequency. 
Next step is trying to stabilize 4700 with the same settings except looser RTLs. Won't be a daily though


----------



## Ichirou

Managed to stabilize my tightened RTL/IOLs; but still pending extensive daily testing. Has been running fine so far on idle for 10 hours; much better than my last attempt.
I'm very close to breaking the 40ns barrier of Micron dies. I probably won't be able to (that's really Samsung's territory), but it is still nice to see that I can get very close.

In any case, I'm not sure whether RTL 60-all and IOL 6/6/7/7 is optimal though. My DIMM slots are configured like this:

(Physical distance from the CPU, as labelled by the motherboard) > B1 > B2 > A1 > A2
In the BIOS, I found that ASRock Configurator's CHA-B D0/D1 = B1/B2, while CHA-A D0/D1 = A1/A2. This makes sense.
However, according to the motherboard manual as well as the actual colours of the slots, B1 and A1 is one channel, while B2 and A2 is another. (What??)

Confusing, right? Something doesn't add up. According to the BIOS and ASRock Configurator, the channels seem to be correct, but the physical board and slots say otherwise.
Is my RAM working as 60/60/6/7 (x2), or 60/60/6/6 and 60/60/7/7 (which is what I want)? Anyone have insight? Are there any adverse side effects?

When I binned my sticks, I wasn't able to get all of my IOLs down to 6 (CH-B D1 or B2 refused to cooperate).
There was only one stick capable of booting with that slot set to 6, but the PC would always freeze within a few seconds.
This rendered my binning pretty much fruitless, since I could already do this configuration before. Maybe the motherboard itself isn't stable with the IOLs being at 6-all.

Regardless, I have installed the sticks in order of best to worst, going from the closest to the furthest slot away from the CPU. Maybe this will help overall stability?


----------



## 638220

EDIT:Whoops wrong forum sorry


----------



## munternet

@OLDFATSHEEP tried lowering tWRWR_dr to 7 then 8 for the 4600c16 but 7 didn't train and 8 caused instability and didn't really help the Aida scores, but thanks for the suggestion  

Haven't managed to get 4700c16 error free
I can run Windows and games ok but get errors after about 5 minutes TM5 Extreme and similar with GSAT
It takes a while to train, if at all, if I make a change so it's a long process testing and tuning
I had a go but I will put this in the too hard basket. I think it must be near the limit for the hardware
Here are the settings if anyone can use them
vdimm = 1.62
vccio = 1.42
vccsa = 1.47


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> I finally got around to doing a little tightening, tuning and testing. Been far too busy lately playing BFV
> I found that with 4600-16-17-17 I need tRAS @36 to pass GSAT. tRAS @34 was fine with TM5 Extreme but not GSAT
> Set Voltages are:
> vdimm = 1.57
> vccio = 1.43
> vccsa = 1.48
> @OLDFATSHEEP are these voltages OK in your view for 24/7?
> Temps are fine at under 38°c
> Can run with lower voltages with looser RTLs....
> View attachment 2469515


Great settings! Is your skew control set to auto ?


----------



## munternet

Carillo said:


> Great settings! Is your skew control set to auto ?


120-48-0


----------



## eminded1

i have a kit its F4-4000C18D-64GVK , i have them in my z490 hero motherboard XMP set on 2, and they works flawlessly at 4000mhz stock c18, i can put them up to 4400mhz at same cl and they boot into windows with 1.4 vccio and 1.4 vccsa and 1.5vdimm. but they are not stable. the ram is dual rank SK Hynix chips. any help on hpw to get this kit stable at 4400mhz, also what is the max daily for vdimm, vccio and vccsa? also what does dmi do for mem oc? thanks for your help


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP tried lowering tWRWR_dr to 7 then 8 for the 4600c16 but 7 didn't train and 8 caused instability and didn't really help the Aida scores, but thanks for the suggestion
> 
> Haven't managed to get 4700c16 error free
> I can run Windows and games ok but get errors after about 5 minutes TM5 Extreme and similar with GSAT
> It takes a while to train, if at all, if I make a change so it's a long process testing and tuning
> I had a go but I will put this in the too hard basket. I think it must be near the limit for the hardware
> Here are the settings if anyone can use them
> vdimm = 1.62
> vccio = 1.42
> vccsa = 1.47
> View attachment 2469661


Great results!


----------



## Gen.

I fully stabilized my 4200CL16 on the new modules (I buy and test the F4-3000C14D-32GTZR, all 3 kits were 4000CL15). It is difficult to display 4200-4300 on 1151-2, but I do it for you  Now I will try 4266. The only thing is that I slightly overestimate VCCIO / VCCSA, because there is no time to test them for minimum values


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> I fully stabilized my 4200CL16 on the new modules (I buy and test the F4-3000C14D-32GTZR, all 3 kits were 4000CL15). It is difficult to display 4200-4300 on 1151-2, but I do it for you  Now I will try 4266. The only thing is that I slightly overestimate VCCIO / VCCSA, because there is no time to test them for minimum values


Very nice  
Very tight and well tested with low io and sa


----------



## 638220

[email protected] 16-16-16-34-2T HCI Memtest 600%
Two 8GBx2 GSkill Ripjaws 4266mhz 17-18-18-38 1.45v ram kits
[email protected]
Bios Set Values
Vcore: 1.27v/Turbo LLC
Vdimm: 1.5v
Sa/IO: 1.3v


----------



## 638220

I have a question about timings for gaming and performance. Is it better to have tRTP 6 tWR 12 with TWRPRE 30 or is it better to have tRTP 8 tWR 10 with TWRPRE 28?

EDIT:NVM 6/12 unstable lol


----------



## Gen.

@blacknbigger212 I would recommend using WR12, RTP6 if stable, if not then WR16, RTP8. WR = 2 * RTP. I saw an increase from RTP6, WR10 only in SuperPi and that is not critical.
@munternet Thanks  IO / SA can be tightened even more, I'm sure my IMC is good. In general, I did 4266 16-16-34-2T 1.485V on the previous modules, but they did not load 4300 here, although on the Z490 Tomahawk I ran them 4666 and was completely stable at 4533 2 * 16 and 4400 from 10400, if you remember. On these there are 4300 starts, first I will try 4266, then 4300, I just need a more careful selection of ODT.


----------



## Betroz

In regards to more real world performance in games and programs, which is objectively most important : raw read/write throughput or lowest possible latency?


----------



## techenth

Bandwidth.


----------



## Nizzen

techenth said:


> Bandwidth.


Post benchmarks that proves the point, to make this forum a better place 

*Betroz *wants hard numbers, not guessing...


----------



## 638220

Betroz said:


> In regards to more real world performance in games and programs, which is objectively most important : raw read/write throughput or lowest possible latency?


That depends how much latency you are trading off and how much bandwidth you are gaining in return. A good trade is 1ns latency for 4k+ more copy/read/write bandwidth because you'll have gains across minimum fps, average fps, 1% lows and maximum fps in games. A bad trade is 2ns latency for only 1k-2k more copy/read/write bandwidth because you'll have double digit losses to minimum fps/1% lows-anywhere between 10 to 30 fps less, with a very very small gain in maximum fps. I found this out when comparing c15-3900 vs. c15-4000 on the z390 aorus master. As some of you may or may not know, the z390 aorus master does not give as good of rtls/iols for c15-4000 as it does for c15-3900, regardless of ramkit used. There is a large gap in rtls/iols between c15-3900 and c15-4000. A typical scaling gap in rtls/iols in a 100mhz gain in ram frequency at the same cas latency would be a spacing of +2, however the spacing ended up being +7. Even though c15-4000 provides 1k more copy, 1k more read and 2k more write than c15-3900, there was a 2ns latency difference in favor of c15-3900 because of the rtl/iol gap. In this scenario, c15-3900 outperformed c15-4000 across the board when it came to minimum fps, 1% lows and average fps in the games I had tested in. The games I tested were black ops 4, modern warfare 2 and starcraft 2. There was only a gain of 1-3 more maximum fps when using c15-4000 over c15-3900 in this scenario, and it wasn't always consistent. The testing was done at 1080p full ultra rtx off with a 2080ti.

Whether or not you choose to make a latency for bandwidth trade will depend largely on the games you play, how much bandwidth you are gain(primarily copy), what gpu you are using and which cpu you are using. When I fine tuned my i7-6820HK with dual gtx 1070s, I focused on raw bandwidth(c16-3200) with matching core/cache ratios(4.2ghz). If you are using a RTX 3090 with a 10900k and playing something like call of duty at 240Hz+ 1080p, then maybe you want to focus mainly on raw copy bandwidth and rely on heavy cache overclocking to boost your minimum fps/1% lows. A large gain in average fps is ideal when playing at 240hz+ 1080p. If you are using a RTX 2080 Ti, maybe you will want to compare the trades to see the fps differences between profiles across all the games you play. I'm not a tech tuber so i don't have any videos/graphs/charts to link or show off. I cannot speak in regards to 1440p or 4K as I do not play at those resolutions.

Well boys and girls, children of all ages, it's been a fun 18 months. This was my final tune. I have a sale lined up for my PC for cash + a ps5. Will still have my 6820hk laptop but moving back to console. I appreciate all the help and advice everyone has given me as well as the patience those have shown me during the learning process. Take care everyone. If I decide to buy another high performance desktop in the future, this will certainly be a spot that I visit. Cheers.


----------



## techenth

Nizzen said:


> Post benchmarks that proves the point, to make this forum a better place
> 
> *Betroz *wants hard numbers, not guessing...


Enable PPD, see how much the latency increase affects your performance in any number of non-synthetic benchmark.
Spoiler alert: It won't.


----------



## Betroz

With my 10900K and F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB kit, 4300 is the highest stable I get with 16-17-17 primaries. Above that I need to go for 18-19-19. For some weird reason 17-18-18 is not stable. So for me it is either 4300 16-17-17 or 4500 18-19-19. Both at the limits of my IMC. The RAM sticks them selves have been tested at 4533 16-17-17 by someone else I know. I guess it's a balancing act of finding the best settings.


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP tried lowering tWRWR_dr to 7 then 8 for the 4600c16 but 7 didn't train and 8 caused instability and didn't really help the Aida scores, but thanks for the suggestion
> 
> Haven't managed to get 4700c16 error free
> I can run Windows and games ok but get errors after about 5 minutes TM5 Extreme and similar with GSAT
> It takes a while to train, if at all, if I make a change so it's a long process testing and tuning
> I had a go but I will put this in the too hard basket. I think it must be near the limit for the hardware
> Here are the settings if anyone can use them
> vdimm = 1.62
> vccio = 1.42
> vccsa = 1.47
> View attachment 2469661


Your IO /SA seems low for 4700 DR. I need 1.45 IO and minimum 1.55 SA. And my IMC is strong enough for 4800 1T single rank stable.


----------



## Hequaqua

I have a ad up for a set of ram if anyone is interested:









[SOLD]CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB PRO 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4...


A set of CORSAIR - VENGEANCE RGB PRO 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 4000(CMW16GX4M2Z4000C18) for sale. I bought these for my AMD rig, but then moved to Intel. Yes, they work on Intel as well, but I have a 32gb set running on it for MS Flight Sim, so just don't need them. Here are some pics and screen...




www.overclock.net


----------



## 638220

Betroz said:


> With my 10900K and F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB kit, 4300 is the highest stable I get with 16-17-17 primaries. Above that I need to go for 18-19-19. For some weird reason 17-18-18 is not stable. So for me it is either 4300 16-17-17 or 4500 18-19-19. Both at the limits of my IMC. The RAM sticks them selves have been tested at 4533 16-17-17 by someone else I know. I guess it's a balancing act of finding the best settings.


my old 4x8gb c17 4000 1.35v kit wouldn't stabilize above 4257 c17 on a good day on regular ambient. The new ripjaws 4266 c17 kits finally let me get c16-4333/c18-4400 with a 9900k/z390 aorus master. Sounds like you've got a pretty good kit. Ya definitely a balancing act on figuring out what works best in combination with daily voltage preferences.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

eminded1 said:


> i have a kit its F4-4000C18D-64GVK , i have them in my z490 hero motherboard XMP set on 2, and they works flawlessly at 4000mhz stock c18, i can put them up to 4400mhz at same cl and they boot into windows with 1.4 vccio and 1.4 vccsa and 1.5vdimm. but they are not stable. the ram is dual rank SK Hynix chips. any help on hpw to get this kit stable at 4400mhz, also what is the max daily for vdimm, vccio and vccsa? also what does dmi do for mem oc? thanks for your help


I will have the F4-4000C18D-64GTRS in hand today, probably the same Hynix MJR chip. Previously somebody managed to get it to 4533.


----------



## eminded1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I will have the F4-4000C18D-64GTRS in hand today, probably the same Hynix MJR chip. Previously somebody managed to get it to 4533.


im looking forward to see how you can clock them.. it would be nice to have 64gb 2x32gb clocked around 4533 let me know how it goes. BTW i was doign some tests, i had to up the VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.31 from 1.2 becuase it was crashing in p95 LargeFFT now its stable for hrs


----------



## Gen.

I did 4266 CL16. I will try to do 4300 CL16, then 4200 CL15 + Windows optimizations to get 32ns or less.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

eminded1 said:


> im looking forward to see how you can clock them.. it would be nice to have 64gb 2x32gb clocked around 4533 let me know how it goes. BTW i was doign some tests, i had to up the VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.31 from 1.2 becuase it was crashing in p95 LargeFFT now its stable for hrs


Briefly tried this kit on M12A. Very similar to DJR. You have to bump the voltages up to get high freq.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> I finally got around to doing a little tightening, tuning and testing. Been far too busy lately playing BFV
> I found that with 4600-16-17-17 I need tRAS @36 to pass GSAT. tRAS @34 was fine with TM5 Extreme but not GSAT
> Set Voltages are:
> vdimm = 1.57
> vccio = 1.43
> vccsa = 1.48
> @OLDFATSHEEP are these voltages OK in your view for 24/7?
> Temps are fine at under 38°c
> Can run with lower voltages with looser RTLs....
> View attachment 2469515


I have loosened my tWRRD_sg and dg. Finally, I got 4700 too 🥴

VDIMM=1.6
IO=1.5
SA=1.53









Now tuning to make it pass TM5.


----------



## munternet

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I have loosened my tWRRD_sg and dg. Finally, I got 4700 too 🥴
> 
> VDIMM=1.6
> IO=1.5
> SA=1.53
> View attachment 2469956
> 
> 
> Now tuning to make it pass TM5.


Very robust performance  
Are you happy to use those io and sa voltages for daily?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> Very robust performance
> Are you happy to use those io and sa voltages for daily?


For daily I use 4533 16-17  io 1.35 sa 1.4


----------



## Salve1412

Finally managed to pass 1 hour of dreadful GSAT at 4533 16-17-17-36 (RAM kit is G.Skill F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB). Previously both 1700% HCI Memtest and 4 cycles of Testmem5 Anta's extreme passed with lower IO and SA voltages, but GSAT still failed within minutes: in my experience it really seems to be the hardest test so far to pass without errors, next to Prime95 112k fixed in place. Now to check if the OC remains stable across reboots...the Extreme is so much weaker than the Apex in terms of memory overclocking, of course.


----------



## WayWayUp

im curious about your guys IO and SA votages

Im running 1.18 IO and 1.27 SA and i found i dont need anymore than that. Currently with 4400 15 15 15 32, tRFC 270
main RTL set to 60 to get tight training.

cpu at 5.3Ghz all core avx 0 1.375v llc6

Some of you with the way high voltages did you find you really need it that high?


----------



## Betroz

WayWayUp said:


> Im running 1.18 IO and 1.27 SA and i found i dont need anymore than that. Currently with 4400 15 15 15 32, tRFC 270
> main RTL set to 60 to get tight training.


SR or DR sticks? Show us TM5 anta777 Extreme 1 hour+ screenshot


----------



## WayWayUp

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C15D-16GTZR - Newegg.com

I didnt do that stress test just basic ones. that said if it would help me run 1t i would gladly raise 😜
its stable in basic stress tests like aida and so far it's gaming stable in cyberpunk so I'm satisfied

I need tips on how to bring down latency further. right now I'm doing 34ns but i feel like others are getting similar latency with looser timings

I'm more concerned with gaming stability. I ran the 3dmark stress test in a loop and thats stable as well. Wanted to test that particularly as im always gpu bound playing in 4k exclusively so i wanted to see if the basic time spy would have issues and it doesnt


----------



## WayWayUp

my biggest issue right now is heat sensitivity 
I have a front mounted 3090 ftw3 thats shunted and its pushing out extremely hot air. I found that i have to crack the window open or it may otherwise crash

i bought a kit to watercool the ram and im getting a waterblock for my gpu so that should resolve things
1.65v on the mem


----------



## Placekicker19

Has anyone tried had any luck with trident z neos 3600 c14 kit? I can get it for a good price, but rather pass if they don't clock as high.


----------



## Gen.

Greetings friends. Small sketches for you


----------



## ViTosS

Guys... when I do a quick try of [email protected] my Read and Copy speed drops a lot compared to [email protected], I can't find the reason, look:

















Any idea?


----------



## Gen.

Set for 4600: tRDRD_dg = 4, tRDWR_sg / dg = 12


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> Set for 4600: tRDRD_dg = 4, tRDWR_sg / dg = 12


Well there you go , thank you, now off to test!









Btw 1.55v DRAM, 1.225v IO and 1.300v SA (BIOS set)


----------



## ViTosS

Can I get some help setting RTL/IOL? I tried to lower 7 from RTL (CHA) from 69 to 62 and then lowering IOL (CHA) from 14 to 7, same thing for RTL (CHB) from 71 to 64 and then IOL (CHB) from 14 to 7, all the rest I left on auto, but I'm having problems to boot/reboot sometimes with these values, it seems to be related to RAM temp, because when I fail a stress test and the sticks are warm I can't get to boot and get code 55 in mobo, if I wait a bit the sticks to cool down I can boot without problem










Edit.: Nvm, it isn't temp related, just had the code 55 now with the sticks really cool


----------



## 638220

ViTosS said:


> Can I get some help setting RTL/IOL? I tried to lower 7 from RTL (CHA) from 69 to 62 and then lowering IOL (CHA) from 14 to 7, same thing for RTL (CHB) from 71 to 64 and then IOL (CHB) from 14 to 7, all the rest I left on auto, but I'm having problems to boot/reboot sometimes with these values, it seems to be related to RAM temp, because when I fail a stress test and the sticks are warm I can't get to boot and get code 55 in mobo, if I wait a bit the sticks to cool down I can boot without problem
> 
> View attachment 2470278
> 
> 
> Edit.: Nvm, it isn't temp related, just had the code 55 now with the sticks really cool


Try increasing VccSA.


----------



## depios

Gen. said:


> Greetings friends. Small sketches for you


good morning, can you help me I have the same board the same cpu, gskill memories 3200 cl15 samsung b-die can not in rtl / iol the meos results that you, the best I can is 67/66 67/67 4/8 4/8 after several reboot to train the memories


----------



## Gen.

@depios , hello. Boost your io / sa to 1.35 / 1.45 for training. Weak results, 4200 18-18 ...


----------



## ViTosS

I found what was causing my instability, I wasn't being able to get [email protected] or [email protected], so I tracked it down and apparently it was *tWRRD_sg* and *dg *at *28-23* causing instability in stress tests, when I changed this to AUTO I was able to reduce the voltage A LOT and pass stress tests, also another thing, I found that *tRRD_L* and *S *set to *6-4* makes my RAM sticks heats like 2c higher compared to them at AUTO, so I need to know a good value for these 4 timings and not so agressive that won't make my RAM heat more and also get unstable, please.

Thanks!


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> I found what was causing my instability, I wasn't being able to get [email protected] or [email protected], so I tracked it down and apparently it was *tWRRD_sg* and *dg *at *28-23* causing instability in stress tests, when I changed this to AUTO I was able to reduce the voltage A LOT and pass stress tests, also another thing, I found that *tRRD_L* and *S *set to *6-4* makes my RAM sticks heats like 2c higher compared to them at AUTO, so I need to know a good value for these 4 timings and not so agressive that won't make my RAM heat more and also get unstable, please.
> 
> Thanks!


Not related to your question, but set tWTR_S to 2 instead of 1. It actually causes higher latency at 1.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> Not related to your question, but set tWTR_S to 2 instead of 1. It actually causes higher latency at 1.


I just tried but seems that tWTR_L and tWTR_S are linked to tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg, I need to change tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg to be able to change them...


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> I just tried but seems that tWTR_L and tWTR_S are linked to tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg, I need to change tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg to be able to change them...


Yes, that is how those timings work. Raise tWRRD_dg by one to raise tWTR_S by one.


----------



## Muqeshem

A question about memory overclcoking.

Is 4000mhz cl15 15 15 15 30 T1 is better than 4133mhz cl17 t2 or even t1?
How good is achieving 4000mhz cl15 15 15 30 t1 on an i9 9900k for latency and gaming on z370 board like the apex x ?


----------



## munternet

Ichirou said:


> Yes, that is how those timings work. Raise tWRRD_dg by one to raise tWTR_S by one.


 I always leave tWTR_L and tWTR_S on auto


----------



## Ichirou

Muqeshem said:


> A question about memory overclcoking.
> 
> Is 4000mhz cl15 15 15 15 30 T1 is better than 4133mhz cl17 t2 or even t1?
> How good is achieving 4000mhz cl15 15 15 30 t1 on an i9 9900k for latency and gaming on z370 board like the apex x ?


Former should be significantly faster than the latter, but lower bandwidth limit.


----------



## Nizzen

Muqeshem said:


> A question about memory overclcoking.
> 
> Is 4000mhz cl15 15 15 15 30 T1 is better than 4133mhz cl17 t2 or even t1?
> How good is achieving 4000mhz cl15 15 15 30 t1 on an i9 9900k for latency and gaming on z370 board like the apex x ?


What you want is running tweaked 4700c17 1t or 4800c17 1t on apex 

73-74GB read and sub 35ns latency.
High bandwidth and low latency


----------



## Muqeshem

Nizzen said:


> What you want is running tweaked 4700c17 1t or 4800c17 1t on apex
> 
> 73-74GB read and sub 35ns latency.
> High bandwidth and low latency


it is z370 apex x though, I would love to do that brother.
What voltages do I need to use though?
Do you have a reference point?


----------



## Muqeshem

ViTosS said:


> Well there you go , thank you, now off to test!
> View attachment 2470269
> 
> 
> Btw 1.55v DRAM, 1.225v IO and 1.300v SA (BIOS set)


Hello dude.
THat is a very nice latency you got there.
Guys with experience, can you please explain why I can only get 34.4 ns latency with 5.2ghz and 4.8ghz uncore with an i9 9900k voltage 1.45v with llc5 on Z370 Apex X?

Where our friend is able to achieve 33.8ns with lower uncore.
I don't get it, is it IMC or board ?


----------



## Ichirou

Muqeshem said:


> Hello dude.
> THat is a very nice latency you got there.
> Guys with experience, can you please explain why I can only get 34.4 ns latency with 5.2ghz and 4.8ghz uncore with an i9 9900k voltage 1.45v with llc5 on Z370 Apex X?
> 
> Where our friend is able to achieve 33.8ns with lower uncore.
> I don't get it, is it IMC or board ?


Variance. It is not realistic to compare different PCs as any different hardware or environment could influence the result.
As long as you're in the 30-40 ns range for Samsung B-die, you're good.


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> Variance. It is not realistic to compare different PCs as any different hardware or environment could influence the result.
> As long as you're in the 30-40 ns range for Samsung B-die, you're good.


Is anybody getting 30ns stable for daily use? But yeah, PCB and IC quality plays a role. I learned this when I compared 2 different brands of ram sticks both with samsung b-die when clocked to the same speed with identical timings, cpu config/os/drivers the same. One brand performed 2k better for reads/writes/copy across the board.


----------



## ViTosS

New RAM OC, should I worry about using it 24/7, considering I'm using air cooler on the RAM? The voltages set in BIOS are:
1.52v DRAM
1.225v VCCIO
1.300v VCCSA


----------



## Imprezzion

47-48c max DIMM temp isn't a problem lifespan wise but it is on the edge of causing possible thermal instability. Most B-Die doesn't like 48c+ especially at such frequencies.

I am currently at 4400 straight 17's at 1.45v with 2x16GB dual rank but I wanna try and get 4600 to run at these timings as well. Plenty of voltage room for the RAM but my SA/IO isn't going to handle it. 

Even for 4400C17 I need 1.35v IO 1.40v SA so I don't think there's a way to pull off 4600 with this weak of an IMC.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> 47-48c max DIMM temp isn't a problem lifespan wise but it is on the edge of causing possible thermal instability. Most B-Die doesn't like 48c+ especially at such frequencies.
> 
> I am currently at 4400 straight 17's at 1.45v with 2x16GB dual rank but I wanna try and get 4600 to run at these timings as well. Plenty of voltage room for the RAM but my SA/IO isn't going to handle it.
> 
> Even for 4400C17 I need 1.35v IO 1.40v SA so I don't think there's a way to pull off 4600 with this weak of an IMC.


I see, the problem is that I live in a pretty hot country and I can't afford custom watercooling, and we are in the summer, its like 30-35c everyday most of the time and it's really difficult to control the temps like this, even with a fan pointed to the sticks at 100% RPM, weird thing is that I couldn't get 4400Mh straight 16s but I could get this result, both are similar in latency/bandwidth, I think I could get even lower IO/SA, I just threw these values and seem to work, won't bother reducing them atm while they are still pretty low and no risk, my concern is about running this sticks while gaming at these temps, if I could get degradation or something like that.


----------



## Imprezzion

Nah I can't get 4600 on any timing.. it barely even POST at 1.5v SA 1.4v IO.. I can get it to windows at 1.55v SA but I don't wanna run that..

Same applies for 4200C15. It boots, but only on 1.40v SA 1.35v IO. If I drop to a more reasonable 1.25v SA 1.15v IO it will just not even POST with Memory Overclock Failed!!

Any less than 1.40/1.35 won't even get into widows it's that unstable lol.

That is with x50 cache frequency tho. It's a slight bit better on x48 cache at least booting at 1.25/1.15 to BIOS but doesn't boot to windows. Memory_management BSOD immediately.

Problem is, I don't wanna get another CPU just cause it has a questionable at best IMC. The core is amazing. 5.1Ghz all core AVX0 1.290v and 5.2Ghz all core AVX0 1.35v with 5Ghz cache is incredible for a 10900KF.


----------



## ViTosS

Ok I tested it further (besides only Karhu) and I can't pass TM5 Anta Extreme and I think is related to temps, I tried raising DRAM till 1.55v and also IO/SA and had errors with the sticks at 49-48c, so look what I found, I said earlier I noticed 2c higher temps when using tRRD_L and S at 6-4 and I just checked it's in fact causing higher RAM temps, I've put those back to AUTO and my RAM sticks where now reaching 45-44c at the same 1.55v at the same time stressing in TM5 and I was able to pass the 5 min mark, so what should I do? Use tRRD_L and S at AUTO and live with it? I will test Aida to see if I loose bandwidth or have increased latency using them on AUTO, because the difference in temperature is huge.


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> I see, the problem is that I live in a pretty hot country and I can't afford custom watercooling, and we are in the summer, its like 30-35c everyday most of the time and it's really difficult to control the temps like this, even with a fan pointed to the sticks at 100% RPM, weird thing is that I couldn't get 4400Mh straight 16s but I could get this result, both are similar in latency/bandwidth, I think I could get even lower IO/SA, I just threw these values and seem to work, won't bother reducing them atm while they are still pretty low and no risk, my concern is about running this sticks while gaming at these temps, if I could get degradation or something like that.


There isn't enough empirical evidence about long time use of RAM overclocks involving high VCCIO/VCCSA, so there is no straight answer about degradation. It's kind of your own risk that you choose to take. Buildzoid claims that IO/SA should never cross 1.4V for daily runners, but people will do so anyway to achieve super high frequencies. (In my case, my ASUS motherboard gives red colour warnings in the BIOS long before that point.)

If you want to play safe, focus on lower frequency and tighter CAS latency to bridge the performance gap. You don't need as much IO/SA at lower frequencies.


----------



## Needhelp666

20000% karhu stable (no errors)
dram voltage 1.4
vccio 1.0
vccsa 1.1

is this good?


----------



## 638220

Needhelp666 said:


> 20000% karhu stable (no errors)
> dram voltage 1.4
> vccio 1.0
> vccsa 1.1
> 
> is this good?


Nice low volts for c14-3600. Check out the github ddr4 guide to tune the timings that way you can lower the latency and increase bandwidth. Btw I think there are aida64 keys on ebay for cheap, 2 bucks.


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> There isn't enough empirical evidence about long time use of RAM overclocks involving high VCCIO/VCCSA, so there is no straight answer about degradation. It's kind of your own risk that you choose to take. Buildzoid claims that IO/SA should never cross 1.4V for daily runners, but people will do so anyway to achieve super high frequencies. (In my case, my ASUS motherboard gives red colour warnings in the BIOS long before that point.)
> 
> If you want to play safe, focus on lower frequency and tighter CAS latency to bridge the performance gap. You don't need as much IO/SA at lower frequencies.


Luumi said he had a chip die after several weeks with 1.65v VccSA.


----------



## Ichirou

blacknbigger212 said:


> Luumi said he had a chip die after several weeks with 1.65v VccSA.


The CPU, motherboard, or the RAM?

1.65V VCCSA should never be tested anyway, but curious.


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> The CPU, motherboard, or the RAM?
> 
> 1.65V VCCSA should never be tested anyway, but curious.


A cpu.


----------



## Gen.

Hi.


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> Hi.


CPU/Cache clock and also those RTL/IOLs does miracle for latency haha, the exact same latency I'm getting here with 4600Mhz straight 17s, but my CPU clock is at 5.0Ghz and cache clock at 4.7Ghz, also 7/7 IOLs


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ViTosS said:


> CPU/Cache clock and also those RTL/IOLs does miracle for latency haha, the exact same latency I'm getting here with 4600Mhz straight 17s, but my CPU clock is at 5.0Ghz and cache clock at 4.7Ghz, also 7/7 IOLs


Mainly due to 10600K, the ring is much shorter compared to 10900K.


----------



## Gen.

You are wrong, the ring at 10600K is the same as in 10900K, only it goes not through 10 cores, but only through 6. And yes, 8700K by Flops is faster by 15-20 units at the same 5000 frequency.


----------



## gerardfraser

F4-4000C17D-32GVKB Overclock

I play PC games at 4K so I do not need to super tighten timings on this CL17 4000Mhz kit but I thought I share some settings this kit should be able to run for anyone who owns this kit.

CL17 4400Mhz @ 1.50v


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gen. said:


> You are wrong, the ring at 10600K is the same as in 10900K, only it goes not through 10 cores, but only through 6. And yes, 8700K by Flops is faster by 15-20 units at the same 5000 frequency.


Yes, it depends on the locations of the 6 active cores, another silicon lottery.


----------



## ViTosS

Wow I found something really unexpected, when I run AC Valhalla benchmark at 1440p with tRRD_L/S on AUTO I score 90fps, when I run with these on 6 and 4 I score 95fps, so tweaked tRRD_L/S is the only way to go for max performance, I also noticed with these on AUTO my boot is slower (Windows boot)


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> Wow I found something really unexpected, when I run AC Valhalla benchmark at 1440p with tRRD_L/S on AUTO I score 90fps, when I run with these on 6 and 4 I score 95fps, so tweaked tRRD_L/S is the only way to go for max performance, I also noticed with these on AUTO my boot is slower (Windows boot)


Yes, lowering tRRD_S/L (and subsequently tFAW) will improve performance. However, don't go below 3 for tRRD_S because performance worsens.


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> New RAM OC, should I worry about using it 24/7, considering I'm using air cooler on the RAM? The voltages set in BIOS are:
> 1.52v DRAM
> 1.225v VCCIO
> 1.300v VCCSA
> 
> View attachment 2470430
> View attachment 2470431


Nice stuff! JUst keep an eye on the RTLs for any drift if normal use gets anywhere near that DIMM temp. Or... set them manually.



blacknbigger212 said:


> Luumi said he had *a chip die after several weeks with 1.65v VccSA*.


Why would that surprise anyone. That was a strong chip to last that long at 1.65V SA!



gerardfraser said:


> F4-4000C17D-32GVKB Overclock
> 
> I play PC games at 4K so I do not need to super tighten timings on this CL17 4000Mhz kit but I thought I share some settings this kit should be able to run for anyone who owns this kit.
> 
> CL17 4400Mhz @ 1.50v


NIce!

Good to see more stability data being posted in this thread... 😊


----------



## 638220

Jpmboy said:


> Nice stuff! JUst keep an eye on the RTLs for any drift if normal use gets anywhere near that DIMM temp. Or... set them manually.
> 
> 
> Why would that surprise anyone. That was a strong chip to last that long at 1.65V SA!
> 
> 
> NIce!
> 
> Good to see more stability data being posted in this thread... 😊



Yeah i'm not surprised at all. 1.65v is only for XoC imo.


----------



## 638220

@Jpmboy speaking of stability data being posted in this thread, i forgot to post this. They told me I needed an Apex to get this level of performance, malarky. Can do [email protected] but it requires 80mv more sa/io and is about the same performance as c16-4333 so we stay with c16-4333 at bios set 1.5v/vdimm and 1.3v/sa-io. This is two gskill ripjaws 8gbx2 17-18-18-38 1.45v ramkits. This is my daily driver now.


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm trying to find a middle ground here. I got 2 totally different overclocks tested both of which have advantages and disadvantages.. I'd like you guy's input on which one would be "better" (mostly, faster).

All voltages listed are the lowest possible to run that OC error free with TM5 anta777 extreme, HCI, Realbench and Prime95. All overclocks are tested and validated at both 5.2Ghz all core with 5Ghz cache and 5.1Ghz all core and 4.8Ghz cache. The IMC maxed out at ~4533Mhz, it needs way too much SA to run anything above 4533 stable and 4533 needs too high of a primary timings to be efficient.

OC 1: 

4400Mhz 17-17-17-36-340-2T
PPD 0 / Off
1.46v RAM
1.40v SA
1.35v IO

Upsides: 

High bandwidth and low DRAM voltage.
Decent latency.
Easy and stable RTL/IO training at 66/66/6/6 even with MRC fast boot.

Downsides:

Seriously high IO/SA on a already very hot 5.2Ghz 10900KF.
Cannot run tRRD_S/L at 4/6 and tFAW 16. Forced to run 6/10 tFAW 24.
tCWL and tWR cannot go under 16.
Cannot run max tREFI or a tRFC lower then 340.
Tertiary timings cannot go anywhere useful. They're a mess and far too loose for optimal performance.

OC 2:

4200Mhz 15-17-17-34-280-2T
PPD 0 / Off
1.60v RAM
1.25 SA
1.15v IO

Upsides: 

Tight CAS / tRFC / tREFI
Decent bandwidth
Secondary and tertiary timings can be extremely tight without much trouble.
Will do 6/4 tRRD and 16 tFAW.
Can run far lower tWR/tCWL (somewhere in the 12 range)

Downsides:

Seriously high DRAM voltage.
Cannot run 15-16-16 or 15-15-15. Will only do 15-17-17.
RTL/IO is a mess and seriously hard to get to train properly.
Have to disable MRC fast boot and any training once it does pick up because training isn't stable between boots at all.

There's obviously a 3rd option, me tweaking around a bit to find a middle way between both of these like for example 4300 16-17-17 or 4000 14-15-15 or 4100 15-16-16 while keeping the tight secondary / tertiary or something like that if you guys would recommend me doing that.


----------



## Gen.

By the way, I don't understand why to spend money on expensive kits. I had 3 complexes of 3000 14-14 rgb from G.Skill and they could all in 4400CL16, the question of voltages. Now I have this kit and it does 4400 16-17 1.53 and 4400 17-17 1.44V. 4666CL16 and 4700CL16 are launched, again the question of voltages and voltages on the memory controller. In my experience 100MHz = 35-40mV on the same CL. That is, 4300CL16 1.5V, which means 4400CL16 1.53-1.54V!


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I'm trying to find a middle ground here. I got 2 totally different overclocks tested both of which have advantages and disadvantages.. I'd like you guy's input on which one would be "better" (mostly, faster).
> 
> All voltages listed are the lowest possible to run that OC error free with TM5 anta777 extreme, HCI, Realbench and Prime95. All overclocks are tested and validated at both 5.2Ghz all core with 5Ghz cache and 5.1Ghz all core and 4.8Ghz cache. The IMC maxed out at ~4533Mhz, it needs way too much SA to run anything above 4533 stable and 4533 needs too high of a primary timings to be efficient.
> 
> OC 1:
> 
> 4400Mhz 17-17-17-36-340-2T
> PPD 0 / Off
> 1.46v RAM
> 1.40v SA
> 1.35v IO
> 
> Upsides:
> 
> High bandwidth and low DRAM voltage.
> Decent latency.
> Easy and stable RTL/IO training at 66/66/6/6 even with MRC fast boot.
> 
> Downsides:
> 
> Seriously high IO/SA on a already very hot 5.2Ghz 10900KF.
> Cannot run tRRD_S/L at 4/6 and tFAW 16. Forced to run 6/10 tFAW 24.
> tCWL and tWR cannot go under 16.
> Cannot run max tREFI or a tRFC lower then 340.
> Tertiary timings cannot go anywhere useful. They're a mess and far too loose for optimal performance.
> 
> OC 2:
> 
> 4200Mhz 15-17-17-34-280-2T
> PPD 0 / Off
> 1.60v RAM
> 1.25 SA
> 1.15v IO
> 
> Upsides:
> 
> Tight CAS / tRFC / tREFI
> Decent bandwidth
> Secondary and tertiary timings can be extremely tight without much trouble.
> Will do 6/4 tRRD and 16 tFAW.
> Can run far lower tWR/tCWL (somewhere in the 12 range)
> 
> Downsides:
> 
> Seriously high DRAM voltage.
> Cannot run 15-16-16 or 15-15-15. Will only do 15-17-17.
> RTL/IO is a mess and seriously hard to get to train properly.
> Have to disable MRC fast boot and any training once it does pick up because training isn't stable between boots at all.
> 
> There's obviously a 3rd option, me tweaking around a bit to find a middle way between both of these like for example 4300 16-17-17 or 4000 14-15-15 or 4100 15-16-16 while keeping the tight secondary / tertiary or something like that if you guys would recommend me doing that.


It might be better to just do AIDA64 readouts so you can actually compare performance between the two in a meaningful manner.
Or use your favourite benchmarks or programs to compare.

Personally, although my CPU is limited to around ~4,200 MHz, even if my CPU could theoretically support up to 5 GHz, I'd prefer to stick around this area simply because I see no reason in pushing SA/IO so hard just for the bragging rights of having high frequency.
If you don't absolutely need the higher bandwidth limit, just go for well-rounded speeds from the tighter timings.

If you think about it: Will you really feel the difference between 60k RWC and 70k RWC? I certainly wouldn't. I'd prefer the longevity more.

On a side note, 1.6V DRAM isn't that bad; there are DDR4 kits up to 1.65V on Ryzen QVL lists now.



Gen. said:


> By the way, I don't understand why to spend money on expensive kits. I had 3 complexes of 3000 14-14 rgb from G.Skill and they could all in 4400CL16, the question of voltages. Now I have this kit and it does 4400 16-17 1.53 and 4400 17-17 1.44V. 4666CL16 and 4700CL16 are launched, again the question of voltages and voltages on the memory controller. In my experience 100MHz = 35-40mV on the same CL. That is, 4300CL16 1.5V, which means 4400CL16 1.53-1.54V!


Do you know how to stabilize a tight tRCD? I have Micron B-die; I am stable at 20 for it, but I get errors at 19.


----------



## Imprezzion

I have AIDA tests from all of those variable OC's and also TM5 and stress test screenshots.

Bandwidth is the best at 4533C18 of course but that takes waaay too much voltage (1.50v SA 1.43v IO 1.63v DRAM) to even consider.

The difference between 4400C17 with loose subs and 4200C15 with tight subs is super small both bandwidth wise and latency wise with 4200C15 winning slightly on latency.

I'll play around a bit..


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I have AIDA tests from all of those variable OC's and also TM5 and stress test screenshots.
> 
> Bandwidth is the best at 4533C18 of course but that takes waaay too much voltage (1.50v SA 1.43v IO 1.63v DRAM) to even consider.
> 
> The difference between 4400C17 with loose subs and 4200C15 with tight subs is super small both bandwidth wise and latency wise with 4200C15 winning slightly on latency.
> 
> I'll play around a bit..


If it's a daily driver, just go with the 4,200 MHz at CL15 preset then. You really don't need to have it maxed out.
Performance is almost pretty much imperceptible _outside of benchmarks_ once you're above 4,000 MHz. It might be there on paper, but you won't ever feel a difference.
It's fun for bragging rights, but I wouldn't put the PC at risk for maybe a few frames extra/a few seconds saved (which would be lost to margin of error anyway).
Either way, it's up to you.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I have AIDA tests from all of those variable OC's and also TM5 and stress test screenshots.
> 
> Bandwidth is the best at 4533C18 of course but that takes waaay too much voltage (1.50v SA 1.43v IO 1.63v DRAM) to even consider.
> 
> The difference between 4400C17 with loose subs and 4200C15 with tight subs is super small both bandwidth wise and latency wise with 4200C15 winning slightly on latency.
> 
> I'll play around a bit..


Try to play with SA PWM, some values like 800 MHz may decrease the needed vccsa.


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try to play with SA PWM, some values like 800 MHz may decrease the needed vccsa.


I can go as high as 1000 actually. But yeah, I need 800 for the CPU vCore as well otherwise load switching from full on AVX back to idle C-states will cause it to freeze as it's not fast enough.

VRM barely gets above 55c anyway.

I am on my last evening shift working from home before a vacation so just dailing in some settings here and there.

I kinda wanna try how high of a frequency I can get C14 to run. I know it does 3900 but that isn't enough for me 

By the way. Is turning off RGB on the RAM for better OC still a thing? I am running with full rainbow effect enabled on max brightness lol.


----------



## Betroz

Ichirou said:


> Performance is almost pretty much imperceptible _outside of benchmarks_ once you're above 4,000 MHz. It might be there on paper, but you won't ever feel a difference.


Some say that they get higher minimum fps in games with higher memory clocks and tweaked timings. 

Stock 2933C15 speed for Coffee Lake is about ~45 GB/s right? We know that is a bottleneck, but what would the sweetspot be I wonder. Feeding 10 cores at 5 GHz probably requires more bandwith than a low clocked Ryzen I would assume.


----------



## Imprezzion

All I know now from testing is that 4200 15-17-17-34-280-2T with very tight secondary / tertiary and 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T with looser secondary / tertiary timings is identical latency wise (both averaged exactly 36.5ns in 10 AIDA64 benches) but 4400 has quite a lot more bandwidth and requires way way less voltage RAM wise but way more SA/IO wise.

So far my CPU seems to handle 1.40v SA 1.30v IO just fine with no noticable temp increase outside or margin of error so yeah, I'll just stay there.

Giving how I'm only running 1.45v RAM voltage I might try to just feed it the full 1.60-1.65v and see if I can get some better secondary / tertiary timings that way. Especially tRRD and tWTR..

I do know and have also stress tested 4533 18-20-20-40-350-2T which shows promise but I don't wanna run 1.50v SA through my CPU 24/7 as it needs that much to be stable...


----------



## Ichirou

Betroz said:


> Some say that they get higher minimum fps in games with higher memory clocks and tweaked timings.


Maybe on 1080p, but again, probably only in benchmarks. GPU will still be the bigger bottleneck, overall.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I can go as high as 1000 actually. But yeah, I need 800 for the CPU vCore as well otherwise load switching from full on AVX back to idle C-states will cause it to freeze as it's not fast enough.
> 
> VRM barely gets above 55c anyway.
> 
> I am on my last evening shift working from home before a vacation so just dailing in some settings here and there.
> 
> I kinda wanna try how high of a frequency I can get C14 to run. I know it does 3900 but that isn't enough for me
> 
> By the way. Is turning off RGB on the RAM for better OC still a thing? I am running with full rainbow effect enabled on max brightness lol.


You need to find the sweet point. Higher PWM might get higher temp that causes instability (large volt spikes).

RGB doesn't matter much. The key is still the ram temp.


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You need to find the sweet point. Higher PWM might get higher temp that causes instability (large volt spikes).
> 
> RGB doesn't matter much. The key is still the ram temp.


About 43c on 1.45v and 48c on 1.60v with a (low rpm) 140mm aimed at them.

I am afraid that 48c is getting almost too hot for proper stability tho.

Oh well, even 1.60v didn't make tighter secondary timings any more stable and neither did it allow me to run CAS 16 @ 4400. I think I'll just stay at 4400C17. Seems to be the sweet spot haha.

BTW, I put all VRM switching to 1000 and it immediately hard locked and powered off under stress test load... something got very unhappy there again lol.


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> Maybe on 1080p, but again, probably only in benchmarks. GPU will still be the bigger bottleneck, overall.


It makes a difference in 1080p and below in gaming. It also makes a difference in benchmarks. I'm not sure about 1440p/4k though.


----------



## Ichirou

I managed to drop tRCD+tRP down by 19 after a _ton _of trial and error, but found that the only way to do so is to lower the RAM temperature.
TM5 passes with tRFC at 700 and tREFI at 48836. tRFC at 650 gives heat errors. Before: With tRCD+tRP at 20, I can do tRFC at 620 and max tREFI.

So far, I'm _tentatively _stable at the timings below. UserBenchmark reports about the same as tRCD+tRP at 20 with other tightened timings (though that's probably due to testing variance), but hey, 19 looks pretty on paper . TM5 completed about a minute faster than before, so that's something to note in terms of computation. Golden sample latency dropped from 41.4ns to 41.1ns, which is significant. RWC is about the same as before.

For Micron B-die, this is pretty insane of an overclock, especially with four DIMMs at 16 GB each. I'll continue to fiddle around and see how far I can push the kit with only fan cooling, but I'm not expecting a whole lot more. Likely can't break the 40ns barrier at this frequency for Micron, so oh well. Maybe if I had a 9000 or 10,000 series Intel I'd be able to push the RAM beyond my soft cap of 4,180 MHz or so.















The left is my current AIDA64 score, and the right is roughly what I started off with, albeit with the frequency at 4,133 MHz instead of stock 4,000 MHz.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Imprezzion said:


> There's obviously a 3rd option, me tweaking around a bit to find a middle way between both of these like for example 4300 16-17-17 or 4000 14-15-15 or 4100 15-16-16 while keeping the tight secondary / tertiary or something like that if you guys would recommend me doing that.


I'm running *4341 MHz 16-17-17-32-2T* with voltages similar to yours. If you're still trying to find a mid way overclock between 4400c17 & 4100c15 my setup might give you something to play around with. I'm still fine tuning things, but I'm happy with what I've got so far. _MCH Full Check_ is enabled, while _Fast Boot_ is disabled, no issues booting or with the dreaded post code 55 or 69 so far, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for now.


----------



## Imprezzion

SunnyStefan said:


> I'm running *4341 MHz 16-17-17-32-2T* with voltages similar to yours. If you're still trying to find a mid way overclock between 4400c17 & 4100c15 my setup might give you something to play around with. I'm still fine tuning things, but I'm happy with what I've got so far. _MCH Full Check_ is enabled, while _Fast Boot_ is disabled, no issues booting or with the dreaded post code 55 or 69 so far, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for now.
> 
> View attachment 2470996


I'll give it a shot  it would be nice if it took a bit less SA at 4300 for my CPU..

One thing I don't get tho. Why tRRD_L 7, shouldn't that be 6 when _S is 4?

And I'm pretty sure I won't get away with 10 tWR let alone 13 tCWL lol.. can't even do that on 4200 haha.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Imprezzion said:


> One thing I don't get tho. Why tRRD_L 7, shouldn't that be 6 when _S is 4?


Did you mean *tWTR_L? *My *tRRD_L* is set to *4*, but my *tWTR_L* is set to *7*.
I was following this DDR4 OC Guide on Github which claims *tWTR_L *bottoms out at *6*, while *tWTR_S *bottoms out at *1.*










Both of my timings for *tWTR_L* & *tWTR_S *are one above the alleged minimum value.
If I lower them to *6* & *1* I'm unable to post, _unless_ I also raise *tCWL *to *16*.
I still need to test each configuration to determine which is actually faster.


----------



## Ichirou

SunnyStefan said:


> Did you mean *tWTR_L? *My *tRRD_L* is set to *4*, but my *tWTR_L* is set to *7*.
> I was following this DDR4 OC Guide on Github which claims *tWTR_L *bottoms out at *6*, while *tWTR_S *bottoms out at *1.*
> 
> View attachment 2471023
> 
> 
> Both of my timings for *tWTR_L* & *tWTR_S *are one above the alleged minimum value.
> If I lower them to *6* & *1* I'm unable to post, _unless_ I also raise *tCWL *to *16*.
> I still need to test each configuration to determine which is actually faster.


tWTR_S shouldn't be at 1 anyway; it causes latency instability and is overall worse than leaving it at 2. tWTR_L can go down to 4.
The two don't have to be lowered together. You can lower them independently.


----------



## Imprezzion

I misread.. too tired haha.

Spend all evening / night re-doing my entire loop and RGB system because I had some air in my loop and pump was making some extra noise and one of my RGB controllers died and flickered a lot. It looked very Christmas-y but if it let go completely it would take out like 3 fans, the case RGB and 2 Phanteks aRGB strips. Took me several hours to get everything right again..

But yeah, I can't manually lower my tWTR? They are linked to some tertiary timings right? Can I just manually drop them and ignore the tRDWR timings?

I'm still fighting stuff with my RAM OC. Like. It's stable now 4400C17 but it's not very well optimized and secondary and tertiary timings are still very loose and the RAM doesn't really wanna do any better..

I did have a 4200C15 profile set up on my previous BIOS but now that I have a newer BIOS which allows turning off PPD and some other stuff that profile isn't stable anymore so I have to find which timing is unstable now which is going to take days lol.

I made a picture of ATC so I could re-enter the profile after BIOS flash but yeah, this is what I ran, and it was 8 hours of TM5 and a full night of HCI stable yet now it errors within 20 minutes in TM5... So time to find the weak spot (might be RTL/IO cause I can't get them to train these exact settings...)


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I misread.. too tired haha.
> 
> Spend all evening / night re-doing my entire loop and RGB system because I had some air in my loop and pump was making some extra noise and one of my RGB controllers died and flickered a lot. It looked very Christmas-y but if it let go completely it would take out like 3 fans, the case RGB and 2 Phanteks aRGB strips. Took me several hours to get everything right again..
> 
> But yeah, I can't manually lower my tWTR? They are linked to some tertiary timings right? Can I just manually drop them and ignore the tRDWR timings?
> 
> I'm still fighting stuff with my RAM OC. Like. It's stable now 4400C17 but it's not very well optimized and secondary and tertiary timings are still very loose and the RAM doesn't really wanna do any better..
> 
> I did have a 4200C15 profile set up on my previous BIOS but now that I have a newer BIOS which allows turning off PPD and some other stuff that profile isn't stable anymore so I have to find which timing is unstable now which is going to take days lol.
> 
> I made a picture of ATC so I could re-enter the profile after BIOS flash but yeah, this is what I ran, and it was 8 hours of TM5 and a full night of HCI stable yet now it errors within 20 minutes in TM5... So time to find the weak spot (might be RTL/IO cause I can't get them to train these exact settings...)
> 
> View attachment 2471042


tWTR_S/L needs to be set to auto and controlled via tWRRD_sg/dg respectively.


----------



## Imprezzion

Meh, still can't get anywhere near a low enough clock on those on both 4400 C17 or 4200 C15.

Anything under like, 28/26 won't even POST so far.

I'm also having a lot of issues getting tRDWR to go anywhere.. it just will not POST at any useful setting. I mean, on 4200C15 with tWR 12 I should easily be able to run like, 10-12 on those but they refuse to drop below 14 basically.

EDIT: I'm getting somewhere slowly 

What I do not get is why my RTL/IO is showing such massive inconsistency at 4200 15-17-17-34-2T. I mean, every other frequency or timing combination they are set-and-forget and always stay at the same point (training is disabled) yet on these timings they go all.lver the place. Like, one boot they do what I set up, 60/60/62/62/4/4/4/4 and another boot it's like 60/65/60/62/4/7/6/4 or whatever random numbers. (Never the same).

If I use fixed mode for RTL/IO I can get them to boot stable every time but they don't go nearly as low. 61/61/61/61/6/6/6/6 is the best I can do on manual mode. I wanted 60/62/4/4 basically which is impossible on Fixed.. 

EDIT2: This seems to work fine so far. Did an hour of TM5 just now as I was typing the previous edit and did a quick AIDA64 run, it's "fine" but nothing special. Neither the bandwidth nor the latency is anything special in my own opinion.. or am i wrong and it this a great result. (1.35v SA 1.25v IO 1.60v DRAM - max temps while running TM5 43.8c / 44.6c)


----------



## Canson

Guys, isn't my read , copy and latency low? What do you think?


----------



## Imprezzion

Canson said:


> Guys, isn't my read , copy and latency low? What do you think?


Yes, it is. RTL/IO is super super loose, that doesn't help, tWR could be lower. Nothing really out of the ordinary for the rest.


----------



## Canson

Imprezzion said:


> Yes, it is. RTL/IO is super super loose, that doesn't help, tWR could be lower. Nothing really out of the ordinary for the rest.


hmm, i see. i tweaked most settings by looking here at forum and testing others people configs. seems working and stable with memtest over 300% and 1 hour OCCT memtest.

Do you have any recommendation for me to test for the timings, ones that look lose?


----------



## Ichirou

Canson said:


> hmm, i see. i tweaked most settings by looking here at forum and testing others people configs. seems working and stable with memtest over 300% and 1 hour OCCT memtest.
> 
> Do you have any recommendation for me to test for the timings, ones that look lose?


Here's mine, and it's Micron B-die lol. Try copying some stuff. And make sure that when you're testing, have _everything else turned off._

For me, tWR anywhere from 5 to 12 made zero difference to my speeds. Only made it harder to pass tests. Shrug.
I could drop tRFC to 620, but it adds a lot of heat for only like, ~300 MB/s extra in terms of read speeds. Not really what I want.
Increasing tREFI will significantly increase your bandwidth, so try it out. Also try dropping tCKE to 0; it'll significantly drop latency. Tighten RTL/IOL as well.


----------



## Canson

Ichirou said:


> Here's mine, and it's Micron B-die lol. Try copying some stuff. And make sure that when you're testing, have _everything else turned off._
> 
> For me, tWR anywhere from 5 to 12 made zero difference to my speeds. Only made it harder to pass tests. Shrug.
> I could drop tRFC to 620, but it adds a lot of heat for only like, ~300 MB/s extra in terms of read speeds. Not really what I want.
> Increasing tREFI will significantly increase your bandwidth, so try it out. Also try dropping tCKE to 0; it'll significantly drop latency. Tighten RTL/IOL as well.
> View attachment 2471090
> View attachment 2471091


Didn't work , couldn't post. It did not train.

Tried 60/60/60/60 , 6/6/6/6 and 62/62/62/62 , 7/7/7/7.

For now i leave it in auto , i am not even sure if I change the right values in my bios actually.

Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

Canson said:


> Didn't work , couldn't post. It did not train.
> 
> Tried 60/60/60/60 , 6/6/6/6 and 62/62/62/62 , 7/7/7/7.
> 
> For now i leave it in auto , i am not even sure if I change the right values in my bios actually.
> 
> Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


RTLs/IOLs differ per motherboard. For yours, try RTL of 61/61/63/63 and IOL of 7/7/7/7.
But retrain your motherboard first, because the RTLs are displaced.


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> RTLs/IOLs differ per motherboard. For yours, try RTL of 61/61/63/63 and IOL of 7/7/7/7.
> But retrain your motherboard first, because the RTLs are displaced.


@Ichirou This works on z490 aorus master but not z390 aorus master. Tried these same values several times at c16 a couple months back along with trying to adjust rtls/iols many times in the past for 4000mhz+ on the z390 aorus master, no luck. @Canson Every other z390 aorus master user i've interacted with have had the same result regardless of bios revision so i wouldn't bother.


----------



## Canson

blacknbigger212 said:


> @Ichirou This works on z490 aorus master but not z390 aorus master. Tried these same values several times at c16 a couple months back along with trying to adjust rtls/iols many times in the past for 4000mhz+ on the z390 aorus master, no luck. @Canson Every other z390 aorus master user i've interacted with have had the same result regardless of bios revision so i wouldn't bother.


your right, i just watched buildzoid's video on overclocking memory on z390 master and he said don't touch it. 

But what's weird is no matter what I do my read still stats on 58000MB/s

For example i just changed timings to 4400mhz 18-18-18-38 and still same read 58000MB/s?


Don't know if I need reinstall my windows or something. Maybe some files are corrupt?

Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

blacknbigger212 said:


> @Ichirou This works on z490 aorus master but not z390 aorus master. Tried these same values several times at c16 a couple months back along with trying to adjust rtls/iols many times in the past for 4000mhz+ on the z390 aorus master, no luck. @Canson Every other z390 aorus master user i've interacted with have had the same result regardless of bios revision so i wouldn't bother.


So the Z390 Aorus Master full on doesn't allow RAM overclocking? Damn, that sucks. Good detail to know.


----------



## 638220

blacknbigger212 said:


> This works on z490 aorus master but not z390 aorus master. Tried these same values several times at c16 a couple months back along with trying to adjust rtls/iols many times in the past for 4000mhz+ on the z390 aorus master, no luck. @Canson Every other z390 aorus master user i've interacted with have had the same result regardless of bios revision so i wouldn't bother.


It does allow ram overclocking. It just doesn't allow adjustment of rtls/iols at 4000mhz+. But even without rtl/iol adjustment, the z390 aorus master on 4x8gb performs as good as 4600mhz 2x8gb on the z390 apex in gaming when clocked 200-300mhz less on the ram with the z390 aorus master. *I love the z390 aorus master board*, it gives z390 apex like performance without having to use crazy amounts of sa/io and at a fraction of the price-about 40% cheaper in price when comparing original msrp. That's not to say the z390 apex is a bad product though, because its definitely a good board but it's not really a product for me because i'm not into XoC.


----------



## 638220

Canson said:


> your right, i just watched buildzoid's video on overclocking memory on z390 master and he said don't touch it.
> 
> But what's weird is no matter what I do my read still stats on 58000MB/s
> 
> For example i just changed timings to 4400mhz 18-18-18-38 and still same read 58000MB/s?
> 
> 
> Don't know if I need reinstall my windows or something. Maybe some files are corrupt?
> 
> Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk





Canson said:


> your right, i just watched buildzoid's video on overclocking memory on z390 master and he said don't touch it.
> 
> But what's weird is no matter what I do my read still stats on 58000MB/s
> 
> For example i just changed timings to 4400mhz 18-18-18-38 and still same read 58000MB/s?
> 
> 
> Don't know if I need reinstall my windows or something. Maybe some files are corrupt?
> 
> Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


I wouldn't know what to tell you, maybe ask in the z390 aorus owner's thread?


----------



## Nizzen

blacknbigger212 said:


> It does allow ram overclocking. It just doesn't allow adjustment of rtls/iols at 4000mhz+. But even without rtl/iol adjustment, the z390 aorus master on 4x8gb performs as good as 4600mhz 2x8gb on the z390 apex in gaming when clocked 200-300mhz less on the ram with the z390 aorus master. *I love the z390 aorus master board*, it gives z390 apex like performance without having to use crazy amounts of sa/io and at a fraction of the price-about 40% cheaper in price when comparing original msrp. That's not to say the z390 apex is a bad product though, because its definitely a good board but it's not really a product for me because i'm not into XoC.


LoL

Pleace show us the performance of your gigabutt card, before you compare the performance to Apex 

Ps: z390 Apex xi was ~ 20% higher price over z390 master from day 1.


----------



## Ichirou

Has anyone bought and tried overclocking a G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3,800 MHz CL14 kit yet? I'd like to see what people here managed to achieve with them.


----------



## 638220

Nizzen said:


> LoL
> 
> Pleace show us the performance of your gigabutt card, before you compare the performance to Apex
> 
> Ps: z390 Apex xi was ~ 20% higher price over z390 master from day 1.


But I already posted my stability test and aida64 + geekbench 3 benchmark on page 799. Feel free to boot up your z390 apex with your 9900k, clock up to 4.8ghz on the cpu, up to 4.4ghz on the cache and then clock to 4600mhz on 8gbx2 ram , then post your aida64 + geekbench 3 benchmark(32-bit trial) + hcimemtest stability test + hwinfo64 + aida64 cpu-id tab. Be sure to screenshot hcimemtest @ 600% or higher while the test is still in progress with the aida64 chipset tab open at the same time so we can see the timings that are being tested just like I did. Since I already posted my stability test + performance earlier in the thread, now it is your turn. Remember, stability test required, aida64 benchmark required and geekbench3 32-bit trial benchmark required, all with the aida64 chipset tab open while the test is still running to show the timings. Basically follow the exact same screenshot format + test format that I used in all my screenshots posted earlier in the thread.

Also, msrp for the z390 aorus master was something like 300 or 330 dollars while the z390 apex was around 450 dollars. At the time of this posting, you can find z390 aorus master boards for as low as 230/used, while a z390 apex will cost you around 400/used if you get lucky(only one I see available is actually from japan used at 500+ dollars).

*But like I said, the z390 apex isn't a bad product, it's actually quite good at what it does, it's just not for me because it is more geared towards XoC rather than content creation/gaming since I can go up to 128gb ram on the z390 aorus master when I need it, The z390 apex only supports up to 64gb ram. I just wish people would stop trying to push me onto asus products that aren't equipped to suit my needs, it does not make me want to own asus products. People kept telling me i couldn't clock higher than 4133 for daily use on the z390 aorus master and that I needed to buy a z390 apex if I wanted higher frequency/better performance, but that was a lie as I have disproven that by stabilizing c17-4200 on 4 dimms, c16-4200 on 4 dimms, c16-4242mhz on 4 dimms, c17-4257mhz on 4 dimms, c18-4400 on 4 dimms and c16-4333 on 4 dimms + many other configurations to list. I know you are just fullfilling your duties as a motherboard sales rep to generate revenue which I can respect to an extent but constantly trying to make me think my board isn't good enough when it actually is good enough is not going to make me want to buy your products. I'm not switching to Asus, end of story. No hard feelings here on my side though, I'm sure you understand where i'm coming from.*


----------



## SunnyStefan

blacknbigger212 said:


> *it's just not for me because it is more geared towards XoC rather than content creation/gaming*


Apex motherboards definitely have features which are great for XoC / LN2 overclocking, but that's not its only selling point.
It's one of, if not, the best motherboards for RAM overclocking (regardless of operating temperatures or voltages).
I'd wager that _far_ more people purchase these boards for ambient overclocking, rather than anything more extreme.

If someone wants to push their memory as far as possible, then the Apex _should_ be considered and _is_ a good recommendation.
I can think of two other boards that compete with it, one of which is an ITX model while the other is actually more expensive.
Other motherboards come close, but remember this is an enthusiast forum


----------



## Ichirou

SunnyStefan said:


> Apex motherboards definitely have features which are great for XoC / LN2 overclocking, but that's not its only selling point.
> It's one of, if not, the best motherboards for RAM overclocking (regardless of operating temperatures or voltages).
> I'd wager that _far_ more people purchase these boards for ambient overclocking, rather than anything more extreme.
> 
> If someone wants to push their memory as far as possible, then the Apex _should_ be considered and _is_ a good recommendation.
> I can think of two other boards that compete with it, one of which is an ITX model while the other is actually more expensive.
> Other motherboards come close, but remember this is an enthusiast forum


I went with an ASUS Prime Z390-A a year ago since I wasn't into RAM overclocking yet, and it does just fine for CPU overclocking.
However, now that I've gotten into RAM overclocking as well, I haven't been able to even reach 4,200 MHz. Not sure if it's just the IMC on the i7-8086k, or the board not being adequate.

If I ever end upgrading my PC again in the future, I'll certainly consider a more expensive high-end board over a mid-ranged.


----------



## KedarWolf

*F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB*
Trident Z Royal
DDR4-4266MHz CL17-18-18-38 1.50V
32GB (2x16GB)









F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal DDR4-4266 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




www.gskill.com





*F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB*
Trident Z Royal
DDR4-4266MHz CL17-18-18-38 1.50V
32GB (2x16GB)









F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal DDR4-4266 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




www.gskill.com





*Both kits are b-die.*


----------



## 638220

SunnyStefan said:


> Apex motherboards definitely have features which are great for XoC / LN2 overclocking, but that's not its only selling point.
> It's one of, if not, the best motherboards for RAM overclocking (regardless of operating temperatures or voltages).
> I'd wager that _far_ more people purchase these boards for ambient overclocking, rather than anything more extreme.
> 
> If someone wants to push their memory as far as possible, then the Apex _should_ be considered and _is_ a good recommendation.
> I can think of two other boards that compete with it, one of which is an ITX model while the other is actually more expensive.
> Other motherboards come close, but remember this is an enthusiast forum


I'm aware of all the features, i did some extensive research on the board in the last year. It does not have what I need from a motherboard. And powering something like 4700-4800 SR(what I would need to out perform what I have now) requires very high levels of sa/io that i'm not comfortable using on my chip for daily use. I was offered a free used z390 apex months back and turned it down because the motherboard does not have what I need. Consider me a dead lead and focus on selling other potential clients on it. I overclock, but i don't fit the definition of enthusiast, Perhaps i'm a rare oddball case so don't count on me fitting into the typical industry stereotypes. The z390 apex is a good board indeed as i've mentioned before, nobody can deny that, unless they were insane. But it doesn't suit my needs so I'll be sticking with the Gigabyte z390 Aorus Master, I love this board, it's incredibly good. Maybe in 3-5 cpu generations i'll consider Asus if the sales reps leave me alone till then and if they have a good t-topology 4 dimm board that suits my needs at a good price point when i'm ready to shop again.


----------



## Imprezzion

I still love the MSI boards of the Z390/Z490 geenration. Nothing special in terms of memory overclocking, middle of the road performance like all of the 4 DIMM boards, but the rest of the features, build quality of the Unify and higher, PCB lay-out, MSI Mystic Sync RGB, it's all exactly what i'm looking for in a board.

And yes, I know a much, much cheaper Gigabyte Aorus Pro/Ultra or ASUS Strix-E would've probably done just as well as a Unify or Ace for just 4200C16/4400C17 DR B-Die and a 10900KF @ 5.1/5.2 but I could get this Ace new (damaged box) for about half the normal MSRP so it was worth it. No, at full price it isn't worth it as it's the same price as the Apex.

Talking about the Ace and my memory overclock, I managed to tighten down my 4400 C17 OC quite a bit in the tertiary and RTL/IO department but now I have a weird problem with TestMem5 Anta777 Extreme. It doesn't give an error or crash or whatever but it just, stops working. I mean, the counter keeps running but the tests don't update anymore and there's no CPU or RAM load anymore after like 20-30 minutes.

I'm trying to do a 1 hour 28GB HCI with MemTestHelper run now just to see if the memory will at least pass that but that TM5 issue is weird..

EDIT: 100% 1 hour HCI 28GB pass no problem at all. Even as low as 1.46v DRAM and it's happy there lol. As I said before it does eat VCCSA/IO for breakfast and needs 1.40v/1.35v to be stable but yeah, CPU temps are fine, even with full AVX / FMA3 stressing.

Do you guys see anything I should improve timing wise? Or RTL/IO? Maybe a different combination? I mean, 66/66/6/6 runs fine but maybe 65/65/8/7 or anything else is somehow faster / better. I don;t really understand RTL/IO yet 









AIDA:


----------



## 638220

Imprezzion said:


> I still love the MSI boards of the Z390/Z490 geenration. Nothing special in terms of memory overclocking, middle of the road performance like all of the 4 DIMM boards, but the rest of the features, build quality of the Unify and higher, PCB lay-out, MSI Mystic Sync RGB, it's all exactly what i'm looking for in a board.
> 
> And yes, I know a much, much cheaper Gigabyte Aorus Pro/Ultra or ASUS Strix-E would've probably done just as well as a Unify or Ace for just 4200C16/4400C17 DR B-Die and a 10900KF @ 5.1/5.2 but I could get this Ace new (damaged box) for about half the normal MSRP so it was worth it. No, at full price it isn't worth it as it's the same price as the Apex.
> 
> Talking about the Ace and my memory overclock, I managed to tighten down my 4400 C17 OC quite a bit in the tertiary and RTL/IO department but now I have a weird problem with TestMem5 Anta777 Extreme. It doesn't give an error or crash or whatever but it just, stops working. I mean, the counter keeps running but the tests don't update anymore and there's no CPU or RAM load anymore after like 20-30 minutes.
> 
> I'm trying to do a 1 hour 28GB HCI with MemTestHelper run now just to see if the memory will at least pass that but that TM5 issue is weird..
> 
> EDIT: 100% 1 hour HCI 28GB pass no problem at all. Even as low as 1.46v DRAM and it's happy there lol. As I said before it does eat VCCSA/IO for breakfast and needs 1.40v/1.35v to be stable but yeah, CPU temps are fine, even with full AVX / FMA3 stressing.
> 
> Do you guys see anything I should improve timing wise? Or RTL/IO? Maybe a different combination? I mean, 66/66/6/6 runs fine but maybe 65/65/8/7 or anything else is somehow faster / better. I don;t really understand RTL/IO yet
> View attachment 2471151
> 
> 
> AIDA:
> View attachment 2471153


Send an email to MSI support, they'll guide you through the rtl/iol process.


----------



## Imprezzion

I mean, I know how to set then up but I don't know what the most efficient setup is for a given frequency and timings.


----------



## 638220

Imprezzion said:


> I mean, I know how to set then up but I don't know what the most efficient setup is for a given frequency and timings.



Send them an email and ask them what the most efficient rtl/iol set is for a given frequency/timings. Maybe they have a table or chart they could give you. I don't know if they will be able to give a concrete answer for that though because it either comes down to your IMC, kit or the board could just have very specific preferred rtls/iols per frequency/timings. It doesn't hurt to ask though.

Or there is option B) test every combination in benchmarks and the games you play to figure out what performs best within whatever personal voltage limits you are comfortable with.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I have a weird problem with TestMem5 Anta777 Extreme. It doesn't give an error or crash or whatever but it just, stops working. I mean, the counter keeps running but the tests don't update anymore and there's no CPU or RAM load anymore after like 20-30 minutes.


This happens when you don't dedicate the entire PC to running TM5 and you are multitasking. TM5 stops when it goes into a new instruction but doesn't have enough memory for it. Unfortunately, the dev never coded a retry feature. IMO, it's a little frustrating, since I want to be able to use my PC to do work on, but I tolerate it. Although, in a way, if the test resets itself, it wouldn't be accurate anymore, since the RAM would've cooled down. Dev probably should've added a popup or something that says like, "Program error occurred, please restart the test."


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

blacknbigger212 said:


> Send them an email and ask them what the most efficient rtl/iol set is for a given frequency/timings. Maybe they have a table or chart they could give you. I don't know if they will be able to give a concrete answer for that though because it either comes down to your IMC, kit or the board could just have very specific preferred rtls/iols per frequency/timings. It doesn't hurt to ask though.
> 
> Or there is option B) test every combination in benchmarks and the games you play to figure out what performs best within whatever personal voltage limits you are comfortable with.


Can just contact TOPPC from Youtube.



https://www.youtube.com/c/ToppcLin/videos


----------



## pipes

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Can just contact TOPPC from Youtube.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/c/ToppcLin/videos


Contact him for what?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## 638220

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Can just contact TOPPC from Youtube.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/c/ToppcLin/videos





pipes said:


> Contact him for what?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


They want you to beg for information .


----------



## pipes

blacknbigger212 said:


> They want you to beg for information .


I asked him some time ago about the hidden advanced menu that I made visible ... he said he would ask for information but still no answer

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

Did some testing in Safe Mode between tWR at 10 and at 12. tWR at 10 was actually worse for latency for me. (tWR at 14 also gives the same latency as tWR at 12.)
Left is tWR at 12, right is tWR at 10. Not an outlier; tested a dozen times each. (RWC speeds are within margin of error, so ignore them.)

For everyone who has tWR at the usual 10, try raising it to 12 and checking your latency. It might actually decrease.


----------



## Imprezzion

I mean, I'm running 16 @ 4400C17 and I'm getting 36.2ns latency so. Should be fine there. Lower tWR isn't stable anyway hehe.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I mean, I'm running 16 @ 4400C17 and I'm getting 36.2ns latency so. Should be fine there. Lower tWR isn't stable anyway hehe.


Yeah, I've noticed instability if I tightened tWR further as I tightened tRCD+tRP. With those two at 20, I can do tWR at 8, but with them at 19, I can only do it at 10 minimum.
I've benched tWR values even lower, but they didn't really show any difference in performance. 12 seems to be the lowest before performance drops off.

I just thought I'd mention it since many people immediately set it to 10 and don't bother to test it. Quite a few timings are actually detrimental if they are too tight.
Below is the absolute tightest I could get my kit. tRFC and tREFI can be pushed further, but I need water cooling.








I might consider picking up a G.Skill 4,400 MHz @ CL16 kit if they ever offer 16 GB sticks. There's the Corsair 5,000 MHz @ CL18 kit, but I don't really want to pay $$$ for that.


----------



## Betroz

Ichirou said:


> Did some testing in Safe Mode between tWR at 10 and at 12. tWR at 10 was actually worse for latency for me. (tWR at 14 also gives the same latency as tWR at 12.)
> Left is tWR at 12, right is tWR at 10. Not an outlier; tested a dozen times each. (RWC speeds are within margin of error, so ignore them.)


40.4ns vs 40.5ns...


----------



## sultanofswing

Anyone know of a version the timing configurator that would work on the X299 Dark? I tried version 4.0.4 for one of the MSI X299 downloads but it would not show anything just 0 for most timings.


----------



## SunnyStefan

blacknbigger212 said:


> Consider me a dead lead and focus on selling other potential clients on it... Maybe in 3-5 cpu generations i'll consider Asus if the sales reps leave me alone till then and if they have a good t-topology 4 dimm board that suits my needs at a good price point when i'm ready to shop again.


I wasn't trying to imply that the Asus Apex was a better fit for you than the board you ended up with, and I definitely don't have some sort of Asus sales agenda lol.
Seeing as the Apex only has two slots for RAM that's clearly a deal breaker for your use case, I get that.
Maybe I misinterpretted it, but your previous post seemed to imply that the Apex was only a smart purchase if you were into XOC or trying to break world records.
I wanted to point out that it's suitable for anyone who wants a motherboard that excels at memory overclocking above all else, even with ambient cooling and sane daily voltages.


----------



## Ichirou

Betroz said:


> 40.4ns vs 40.5ns...


Well hey, 0.1ns is still something, especially when it's thoroughly tested and is consistent  
Every little bit counts after all. Sucks that Micron B-die can't break the 40ns barrier at this frequency.


----------



## Imprezzion

Why can I not run tCKE at 0? I mean, my BIOS goes from 2 to Auto and even with PPD 0 and fully disabled and tXP 0 it still runs tCKE 8 at Auto and 2 is the lowest I can set. Any downside to this or not really noticable.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Why can I not run tCKE at 0? I mean, my BIOS goes from 2 to Auto and even with PPD 0 and fully disabled and tXP 0 it still runs tCKE 8 at Auto and 2 is the lowest I can set. Any downside to this or not really noticable.


I think it depends on the motherboard, but I found that for mine (ASUS Prime Z390-A), I get gradually decreasing latency as I lower tCKE, and then when I completely shut it off at 0, the latency takes an even larger dip.


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> I think it depends on the motherboard, but I found that for mine (ASUS Prime Z390-A), I get gradually decreasing latency as I lower tCKE, and then when I completely shut it off at 0, the latency takes an even larger dip.


I don't know if the setting even has any effect with PPD and such disabled, never measured it on my board, but I found it weird there's no option for 0 at all lol.

RAM has been performing excellent in games and such over the past 2 days @ 4400 17-17-17-36-330-2T 1.460v. Rock solid so far and performs very very well. And pretty low voltage and DIMM temps barely hit 35c in games.


----------



## TK421

Anything I should try to change in order to fix this error?


----------



## 638220

SunnyStefan said:


> I wasn't trying to imply that the Asus Apex was a better fit for you than the board you ended up with, and I definitely don't have some sort of Asus sales agenda lol.
> Seeing as the Apex only has two slots for RAM that's clearly a deal breaker for your use case, I get that.
> Maybe I misinterpretted it, but your previous post seemed to imply that the Apex was only a smart purchase if you were into XOC or trying to break world records.
> I wanted to point out that it's suitable for anyone who wants a motherboard that excels at memory overclocking above all else, even with ambient cooling and sane daily voltages.


O i was not implying at all that it was only for xocers, its just really geared for that, it's the number 1 xoc board with all the features it has imo(though i could just be ignorant here so if i'm wrong someone please correct me). It just doesn't have what I need from a board. The apex is a great board and a great product, it's just not a good fit for me.


----------



## Nizzen

TK421 said:


> View attachment 2471312
> 
> 
> 
> Anything I should try to change in order to fix this error?


Most likely too hot 
A fan over the memory will fix it.


----------



## Ichirou

TK421 said:


> View attachment 2471312
> 
> 
> 
> Anything I should try to change in order to fix this error?


Your timings are super loose, so I highly doubt there is an issue with them. If the errors are only occurring hours into the test, then it's 99% an overheating issue.
There is a reason why I prefer 1usmus' config; it's quick and concise. Can always retest one or two more times to be sure. Rest is just using the PC to test overall stability.

Think about it: Would you ever be constantly stressing your RAM during PC use? If not, then you should stress it in a way that is relative to how you actually use your PC.


----------



## TK421

Nizzen said:


> Most likely too hot
> A fan over the memory will fix it.





Ichirou said:


> Your timings are super loose, so I highly doubt there is an issue with them. If the errors are only occurring hours into the test, then it's 99% an overheating issue.
> There is a reason why I prefer 1usmus' config; it's quick and concise. Can always retest one or two more times to be sure. Rest is just using the PC to test overall stability.
> 
> Think about it: Would you ever be constantly stressing your RAM during PC use? If not, then you should stress it in a way that is relative to how you actually use your PC.



has fan over the memory, still runs really hot around 46c


all the timings except primary is auto, maximus tweak is set to mode 1


----------



## Ichirou

TK421 said:


> has fan over the memory, still runs really hot around 46c
> 
> 
> all the timings except primary is auto, maximus tweak is set to mode 1


You'll have to reduce the frequency or VDIMM then; the kit just isn't great. Or raise tCL or tRCD+tRP.


----------



## TK421

edit: have to mention that the kits were fine previously at 4400C17-18-18 but I'm redoing the OC due to getting a new 10900K




Ichirou said:


> You'll have to reduce the frequency or VDIMM then; the kit just isn't great. Or raise tCL or tRCD+tRP.


kit is 2x16GB 3200C14 g.skill royals


it has a 120mm blowing over the memory section


----------



## sultanofswing

Wondering if anyone would be willing to lend a hand. Have some bottom barrel B-Die that I am trying to get better results from.
This is the Kit- VENGEANCE® RGB 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3600MHz C18 Memory Kit

I am running them in a EVGA X299 Dark currently at XMP and getting low Write Speeds.
*Here is the Thaiphoon Burner info









Here is AIDA64 benchmark* with XMP and all secondary timings at auto, I cannot get ASRock Timing Configurator to work on this board. Just shows Zeros for all the timings.









I've had the RAM At 4000mhz with tighter primary timings(think I tried 17,18,18,37)@1.49v but Write speed was the same and would throw errors in TM5 about 3 minutes into the first loop.
This Kit also sets tRefi at 630. Went down to 430 and that caused errors as well.

Not much of a RAM overclocker but would like some guidance. I either have a poor IMC on my CPU or just this RAM is no good, only thing I can think of that explains the low Write Speeds.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> Wondering if anyone would be willing to lend a hand. Have some bottom barrel B-Die that I am trying to get better results from.
> This is the Kit- VENGEANCE® RGB 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3600MHz C18 Memory Kit
> 
> I am running them in a EVGA X299 Dark currently at XMP and getting low Write Speeds.
> *Here is the Thaiphoon Burner info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is AIDA64 benchmark* with XMP and all secondary timings at auto, I cannot get ASRock Timing Configurator to work on this board. Just shows Zeros for all the timings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've had the RAM At 4000mhz with tighter primary timings(think I tried 17,18,18,37)@1.49v but Write speed was the same and would throw errors in TM5 about 3 minutes into the first loop.
> This Kit also sets tRefi at 630. Went down to 430 and that caused errors as well.
> 
> Not much of a RAM overclocker but would like some guidance. I either have a poor IMC on my CPU or just this RAM is no good, only thing I can think of that explains the low Write Speeds.


Quad is always a bit difficult to drive just because it is. Buildzoid hates them with a passion for that reason. Thus, you shouldn't be surprised that it isn't going as great as you'd expect. It's hard to get a good picture of what you set, so would you be able to take some photos of the BIOS with the timings shown?

Also, try raising tRCD+tRP and then lowering tCAS.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Quad is always a bit difficult to drive just because it is. Buildzoid hates them with a passion for that reason. Thus, you shouldn't be surprised that it isn't going as great as you'd expect. It's hard to get a good picture of what you set, so would you be able to take some photos of the BIOS with the timings shown?
> 
> Also, try raising tRCD+tRP and then lowering tCAS.


I wouldn't think it would be that difficult to drive considering the chip has 4 channels and the board is 1DPC layout.

Here is the default XMP settings and secondaries on auto.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> I wouldn't think it would be that difficult to drive considering the chip has 4 channels and the board is 1DPC layout.
> 
> Here is the default XMP settings and secondaries on auto.


Okay, so what have you already tried to tighten that was stable? I personally prefer leaving tRCD, tRP, and tRFC on Auto and then doing everything else first, since they're harder to deal with in general. For VDIMM, if it is Samsung B-die, try throwing 1.5-1.55V at it and seeing if you can run it at 4,000 MHz and tCL at 17. Test to see if that alone passes. One timing at a time.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Okay, so what have you already tried to tighten that was stable? I personally prefer leaving tRCD, tRP, and tRFC on Auto and then doing everything else first, since they're harder to deal with in general. For VDIMM, if it is Samsung B-die, try throwing 1.5-1.55V at it and seeing if you can run it at 4,000 MHz and tCL at 17. Test to see if that alone passes. One timing at a time.


Yea it's B-die. I'll try CL 17, I know when I tried 1.515 I believe earlier and the ram was getting up to about 46c.
Just kinda apprehensive about messing with RAM because every time I have and I get a BSOD I end up having to re-install Windows, Had to do 3 installs Today.


----------



## munternet

TK421 said:


> edit: have to mention that the kits were fine previously at 4400C17-18-18 but I'm redoing the OC due to getting a new 10900K
> 
> 
> 
> kit is 2x16GB 3200C14 g.skill royals
> 
> 
> it has a 120mm blowing over the memory section
> 
> 
> View attachment 2471328


Looks too loose to me 
What are the ODT skews set at? I found 80-48-0 or 120-48-0 the best for me.
These sticks should be similar
It's a screen shot of my old ram and I would do a couple of things slightly different now but it has the basics


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> Yea it's B-die. I'll try CL 17, I know when I tried 1.515 I believe earlier and the ram was getting up to about 46c.
> Just kinda apprehensive about messing with RAM because every time I have and I get a BSOD I end up having to re-install Windows, Had to do 3 installs Today.


You're getting such serious corruption? Does your RAM itself have cooling? It's not recommended to push too high voltage without it.


munternet said:


> What are the ODT skews set at? I found 80-48-0 or 120-48-0 the best for me.


Can you ELI5 exactly what skews are and how to tweak them? I tend to just skip that option in the BIOS, but I feel like I should with them.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> You're getting such serious corruption? Does your RAM itself have cooling? It's not recommended to push too high voltage without it.
> 
> Can you ELI5 exactly what skews are and how to tweak them? I tend to just skip that option in the BIOS, but I feel like fiddling with them.


Yea for some reason these newer version of windows 10(20h2) seem to be really sensitive to overclocks. When it happens is causes issues with video drivers and no amount of DDU fixes it.
I'm booted into windows at [email protected] 1.45v. Gonna see what TM5 says before anything.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> Yea for some reason these newer version of windows 10(20h2) seem to be really sensitive to overclocks. When it happens is causes issues with video drivers and no amount of DDU fixes it.


Yep, that's RAM corruption (had it happen myself with GPU drivers getting corrupted and then the OS itself). Definitely an issue with bad timings/heat.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Yep, that's RAM corruption (had it happen myself with GPU drivers getting corrupted and then the OS itself). Definitely an issue with bad timings/heat.


Yea figured that, so far at [email protected] TM5 has been running for almost 10 minutes with no errors.
I do know when I was at 17-18-18-37 the memory write speeds were still low.
Trying to figure out why, everyone else I see on X299 platform their memory write speeds are almost inline with their read speeds. Mine is quite a ways off.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> Yea figured that, so far at [email protected] TM5 has been running for almost 10 minutes with no errors.
> I do know when I was at 17-18-18-37 the memory write speeds were still low.
> Trying to figure out why, everyone else I see on X299 platform their memory write speeds are almost inline with their read speeds. Mine is quite a ways off.


By the way, to test for RAM corruption, run 'sfc /scannow' every hour or two until you are confident enough that a timing setting is safe.

Sometimes if you overly tighten certain timings, it can actually cause regressive performance.
But in your case, judging from the BIOS screenshots, most of the subtimings are loose, so that's likely contributing to RWC speeds being suboptimal.


----------



## TK421

munternet said:


> Looks too loose to me
> What are the ODT skews set at? I found 80-48-0 or 120-48-0 the best for me.
> These sticks should be similar
> It's a screen shot of my old ram and I would do a couple of things slightly different now but it has the basics



I'm not sure about ODT skew, I'm pretty sure it's default. But I did manage to find out that this cpu doesn't like particularly high IO/SA voltages, using 1.3 here for SA/IO seems ideal

I tried booting above 4400 and couldn't do it (even loosened timings)

Tested up to 52c with an aircooled gpu that outputs 450w



This were my old timings for a different 10900K, I have a new CPU so I tried to find out if I could do something better


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> By the way, to test for RAM corruption, run 'sfc /scannow' every hour or two until you are confident enough that a timing setting is safe.
> 
> Sometimes if you overly tighten certain timings, it can actually cause regressive performance.
> But in your case, judging from the BIOS screenshots, most of the subtimings are loose, so that's likely contributing to RWC speeds being suboptimal.


Will keep that in mind.
Here is [email protected] passed first pass of TM5 with V3 config for HEDT. Still has not helped the write speed.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> Will keep that in mind.
> Here is [email protected] passed first pass of TM5 with V3 config for HEDT. Still has not helped the write speed.


Once the test fully passes, try tCL at 16, still leaving the other stuff on Auto. Try to pull tCL down as much as you can.
After you reach the limit of tCL, raise frequency as high as you can. And after that, tighten the subtimings.
Leave tRCD+tRP and tRFC+tREFI on Auto for now; do those at the very end (they contribute significantly to heat).


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Once the test fully passes, try tCL at 16, still leaving the other stuff on Auto. Try to pull tCL down as much as you can.
> After you reach the limit of tCL, raise frequency as high as you can. And after that, tighten the subtimings.
> Leave tRCD+tRP and tRFC+tREFI on Auto for now; do those at the very end (they contribute significantly to heat).


OK. Testing CL16 now still at 1.45v.
Switched too anta777 extreme config as I hear that's the best one to run.
Edit-Error about 3 minutes in on CL16, Dimm temps were in the Mid 40's, May have a little more voltage headroom.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> OK. Testing CL16 now still at 1.45v.
> Switched too anta777 extreme config as I hear that's the best one to run.


Don't hesitate to raise VDIMM if you can, since tCL scales with voltage. If tCL @ 16 boots but gets errors, you reached a VDIMM limit.
Or you could settle at that VDIMM and see how much of the other stuff you can squeeze out. It's entirely up to you, of course.

anta777 and 1usmus both work. Personal preference. I like the latter more myself.

(For my Micron B-die, I have it set at 1.63V right now; the highest it can go with tRFC at 700 and tREFI at 3.5x JEDEC. Temp limit.)


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Don't hesitate to raise VDIMM if you can, since tCL scales with voltage. If tCL @ 16 boots but gets errors, you reached a VDIMM limit.
> Or you could settle at that VDIMM and see how much of the other stuff you can squeeze out. It's entirely up to you, of course.
> 
> anta777 and 1usmus both work. Personal preference. I like the latter more myself.
> 
> (For my Micron B-die, I have it set at 1.63V right now; the highest it can go with tRFC at 700 and tREFI at 3.5x JEDEC. Temp limit.)


I can try more vdimm, it's not that great of a kit to begin with, I've had the kit for 3 years now. If it dies it dies!


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> I can try more vdimm, it's not that great of a kit to begin with, I've had the kit for 3 years now. If it dies it dies!


IMO, I'd be more concerned about the CPU dying from VDIMM overvoltage than the RAM dying. But I doubt anything would ever happen with VDIMM up to 1.6-1.65V.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> IMO, I'd be more concerned about the CPU dying from VDIMM overvoltage than the RAM dying. But I doubt anything would ever happen with VDIMM up to 1.6-1.65V.


Error on test 13 in TM5. That was at 1.48v with DIMM temps in the 45-47c Range.
Think I will just settle on CL17 and run the full test to see if that passes, It still doesn't help the Write speeds in Aida64 though.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> Error on test 13 in TM5. That was at 1.48v with DIMM temps in the 45-47c Range.
> Think I will just settle on CL17 and run the full test to see if that passes, It still doesn't help the Write speeds in Aida64 though.


Tighten the subtimings to see if RWC improves.


----------



## Nizzen

sultanofswing said:


> Error on test 13 in TM5. That was at 1.48v with DIMM temps in the 45-47c Range.
> Think I will just settle on CL17 and run the full test to see if that passes, It still doesn't help the Write speeds in Aida64 though.


Some b-die don' like temp above 45c. Try max 40c


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Tighten the subtimings to see if RWC improves.


I have no clue what to tighten, I do know some from what I have read need to be raised. I'm dumb when it comes to memory overclocking.


----------



## sultanofswing

Nizzen said:


> Some b-die don' like temp above 45c. Try max 40c


Yea anything over 1.4v gets the memory to the mid 40's in TM5.
It's a custom loop but I have 2 reservoirs that block airflow to the DIMMS.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> I have no clue what to tighten, I do know some from what I have read need to be raised. I'm dumb when it comes to memory overclocking.


Pretty much everything can be tightened. It's just tREFI that goes up instead of down.
However, some timings can't be too tight, or performance might regress. That's why you should AIDA64 each change before testing it, just to make sure it's better rather than worse.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Pretty much everything can be tightened. It's just tREFI that goes up instead of down.
> However, some timings can't be too tight, or performance might regress. That's why you should AIDA64 each change before testing it, just to make sure it's better rather than worse.


OK, I guess I will play with it over the next few days although I feel like starting with a better Kit would be ideal.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> OK, I guess I will play with it over the next few days although I feel like starting with a better Kit would be ideal.


That's entirely up to you. I did so myself to get into overclocking; already trying to sell the old kit here.
If I knew how deep I would get, I probably would've gotten myself a better kit, but there's not much available for 4x16 GB.








G.Skill has some new Trident Z Neos coming out, but even if the 3,800 MHz CL14 kit can hit say 4,000 MHz CL15 or 4,200 MHz CL16 (approx. linear scaling), that's not far from what I already have on my kit (4,174 MHz CL15), so it wouldn't be worth the gamble. Plus, two kits from likely different batches might not play nice together.

It would be a dream if they had 4,400 MHz CL16 in 16 GB capacity, though. They already have that in 8 GB sticks.


----------



## bigfootnz

Ichirou said:


> G.Skill has some new Trident Z Neos coming out, but even if the 3,800 MHz CL14 kit can hit say 4,000 MHz CL15 or 4,200 MHz CL16 (approx. linear scaling), that's not far from what I already have on my kit (4,174 MHz CL15), so it wouldn't be worth the gamble. Plus, two kits from likely different batches might not play nice together.
> 
> It would be a dream if they had 4,400 MHz CL16 in 16 GB capacity, though. They already have that in 8 GB sticks.


I've bought this kit F4-4266C17D-32GVKB, and at the moment I've running this kit at 4300 16-17-17-38 with 1.5V and 1.25/1.3 IO/SA. Also I'm stable with at 4400 16-17-17-38 but need little more voltage 1.55V and 1.27/1.33 IO/SA. For that reason I've decide to run 4300 as a daily driver as in my opinion additional 100MHz is not worth additional voltage/heat. Please have in mind I'm running this on regular HERO XII. I was able to boot also on 4533 with same settings like 4400 but didn't bother to find stability probably due to high required voltage.


----------



## Canson

well , i guess Z390 Master doesn't like memory speeds above 4133mhz with 4 dimms. That's the limit i think for this board. 

No matter what voltage or latency i try it throws error very quick in stress test. But it has no problem to train and boot actually. 

Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

These posts show how severely mediocre my B-Die bin is as well haha. I mean. I knew what I was getting as this was literally a €120 secondhand kit from which the seller didn't know what B-Die or even overclocking was..

It's a Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 kit so yeah, pretty much bottom of the barrel.

Still does 4400C17 @ 1.46v just fine and 3800C14 /4200C16 @ 1.55v isn't a problem either but it's nothing special and I can forget about ever making 4400C16 work so far or there has to be some magical secondary / tertiary timings that will allow me to do it. I tried it with 16-18-18 and 16-17-17, didn't even pass the first 2 minutes of a TM5 or HCI or Prime95 test even at 1.6v+.

Maaaaaaybe a different WR,Park,Nom will help? I mean, on Auto it won't do 4400 at all, I need manual 80/40/40 to even do anything above 4200 (Auto is 80/0/240). Could someone explain to me what those settings even are / do? I have no clue lol just read here in this topic by some very knowledgeable people that changing those can help and boy it did.

By the way, I've been testing something I've done back in the DDR3 days as well.. running tRCD/tRP actually lower then tCL. I'm testing 4400 17-16-16 now and the difference in AIDA is pretty significant. 17-16-16 is miles ahead of 17-17-17. Both latency and bandwidth wise..It's not easy to win 0.3ns so easily on these frequencies and almost half a gig/s of bandwidth across the board.. 

Straight 17's:









17-16-16 with all other timings identical (CPU is misreporting due to EIST / c-states / balanced windows power plan being enabled)









Now to see if this has any resemblance of stability in it lol.


----------



## 638220

Canson said:


> well , i guess Z390 Master doesn't like memory speeds above 4133mhz with 4 dimms. That's the limit i think for this board.
> 
> No matter what voltage or latency i try it throws error very quick in stress test. But it has no problem to train and boot actually.
> 
> Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

blacknbigger212 said:


>


Cl 19-29-29 🤣

Worlds slowest 4533mhz memory...


----------



## 638220

Nizzen said:


> Cl 19-29-29 🤣
> 
> Worlds slowest 4533mhz memory...


O i'm not gonna argue that haha . But still [email protected] is not easy to achieve so you got to give credit to professional overclocker hicookie at least.


----------



## Imprezzion

blacknbigger212 said:


> O i'm not gonna argue that haha . But still [email protected] is not easy to achieve so you got to give credit to professional overclocker hicookie at least.


Aight gimme a sec. One of my mates just bought a 10900KF and a MSI Z490 Unify for x-mas and he's using a 4x8GB B-Die 3200C14 kit.

Let me check if we can get that to do 4533 😂.

We've only been testing @ 4000C16 atm lol.


----------



## 638220

Imprezzion said:


> Aight gimme a sec. One of my mates just bought a 10900KF and a MSI Z490 Unify for x-mas and he's using a 4x8GB B-Die 3200C14 kit.
> 
> Let me check if we can get that to do 4533 😂.
> 
> We've only been testing @ 4000C16 atm lol.


good luck with that


----------



## Ichirou

blacknbigger212 said:


> But still [email protected] is not easy to achieve


Any particular reason why? Is it just that the demand on the IMC is too high with four DIMMs?


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> Any particular reason why? Is it just that the demand on the IMC is too high with four DIMMs?


Oh I couldn't begin to give you that information.


----------



## Ichirou

Canson said:


> well , i guess Z390 Master doesn't like memory speeds above 4133mhz with 4 dimms. That's the limit i think for this board.
> 
> No matter what voltage or latency i try it throws error very quick in stress test. But it has no problem to train and boot actually.
> 
> Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


What sort of VCCSA/VCCIO do you have to give the CPU to force it to boot above the 4133-4200 barrier?


blacknbigger212 said:


> Oh I couldn't begin to give you that information.


Enlighten me


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> What sort of VCCSA/VCCIO do you have to give the CPU to force it to boot above the 4133-4200 barrier?
> 
> Enlighten me


O honestly I don't know which is why I responded the way I did. I've read many different things, don't know what is true or false. For all I know there could be cyber warfare going on between motherboard manufacturers where one manufacturer tracks down each opposing hardware motherboard user via IP address by obtaining metadata from photos posted by the user or by sniffing IPs with websites and then altering user settings or forcing through software updates/changes through their network which cause instability in an attempt to convince the user that X hardware is not capable and that they should instead switch to X brand. But who knows . But yeah sorry for going off on a tangent here, I honestly couldn't tell you. Perhaps it's just "magic" like buildzoid has said in the past. Or perhaps the entire OC thing is based on how much money you spend on hardware and they only let you get X amount of performance based on a certain monetary threshold, even if you've already proven it to be stable via several stress tests. Who knows.


----------



## cstkl1

blacknbigger212 said:


> O i'm not gonna argue that haha . But still [email protected] is not easy to achieve so you got to give credit to professional overclocker hicookie at least.


credit to a fae who can change sensing in engineering bios?? thats alot of credit to things other ppl dont have access to
also do you know

@coolice posted 4x16gb running 4500 or was it 4600?? here months back.


----------



## 638220

cstkl1 said:


> credit to a fae who can change sensing in engineering bios?? thats alot of credit to things other ppl dont have access to
> also do you know
> 
> @coolice posted 4x16gb running 4500 or was it 4600?? here months back.


What is sensing?


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> What sort of VCCSA/VCCIO do you have to give the CPU to force it to boot above the 4133-4200 barrier?
> 
> Enlighten me


Expanding on my earlier response to your question. I do think its cyber warfare between motherboard manufacturers in an effort to gain customers/market share, it would explain why gigabyte returns the motherboard back to the user after an RMA stating nothing was wrong with the board, because they tested it and there wasn't anything wrong with it. So my guess is that opposing motherboard manufacturers are pushing through malware and once an internet connection is made, it's activated to cause instability. This would explain why I can pass stress tests without wifi or an ethernet cable plugged in, but once I post the stress tested stable result online in this thread or on reddit, things go bad. Funny thing though, every time that happens, someone is always there to tell me to buy an apex. I wonder who is behind this. I think I should contact gigabyte and let them know my thoughts on what is going on. I guess if a company is guilty of this sort of cyber warfare, they better pray another company in the industry doesn't clap back because its gonna hurt like hell.


----------



## Nizzen

blacknbigger212 said:


> Expanding on my earlier response to your question. I do think its cyber warfare between motherboard manufacturers in an effort to gain customers/market share, it would explain why gigabyte returns the motherboard back to the user after an RMA stating nothing was wrong with the board, because they tested it and there wasn't anything wrong with it. So my guess is that opposing motherboard manufacturers are pushing through malware and once an internet connection is made, it's activated to cause instability. This would explain why I can pass stress tests without wifi or an ethernet cable plugged in, but once I post the stress tested stable result online in this thread or on reddit, things go bad. Funny thing though, every time that happens, someone is always there to tell me to buy an apex. I wonder who is behind this. I think I should contact gigabyte and let them know my thoughts on what is going on. I guess if a company is guilty of this sort of cyber warfare, they better pray another company in the industry doesn't clap back because its gonna hurt like hell.


Saved 🤣

Tinfoil hat 👽🙈


----------



## TK421

Nizzen said:


> Some b-die don' like temp above 45c. Try max 40c



for some reason this kit is fine at 51/52c

I might try dropping VPP to 2.3 to see if it reduces operating temp


----------



## Canson

Nizzen said:


> Cl 19-29-29 [emoji1787]
> 
> Worlds slowest 4533mhz memory...


Hahaha that's what I thought also, much rather prefer my 4133 16-16-16-36 with tight timing 

Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

TK421 said:


> for some reason this kit is fine at 51/52c
> 
> I might try dropping VPP to 2.3 to see if it reduces operating temp
> 
> View attachment 2471487


Yes, memorykits are different. My old g.skill 3600c15 a1 in my x299running at 4000c16, is stable at more than 50c. Some of my new g.skill singlrank kits don't like 45c+ before them throwing errors at high speeds. Maybe due to different pcb, different node etc...


----------



## sultanofswing

Think I am giving up on this CPU/RAM combo I have. Running a few more tests but it appears this combo just isn't a good mix.
Might try and find a 9980XE, Appears Cascade Lake just has too many issues.


----------



## Canson

Ichirou said:


> What sort of VCCSA/VCCIO do you have to give the CPU to force it to boot above the 4133-4200 barrier?
> 
> Enlighten me


Like 1.3 voltage for both VCCSA/VCCIO.

What seems more relevant to boot is to have at least 1.5 dimm voltage. Otherwise it won't post or will get bsod.

But even enough voltage and lose timings (19-19-19-39) it seems it can't get stable. 


I think i will stay with my current config which is 4133mhz 16-16-16-36 with 1.25v for vccsa and vccio and 1.5v for dimm

i did run this TM5 software with extreme anta777 config and was stable the whole test which was like 3 hours.


I see many use this program. Is it good?

Usually i use HCI memtest pro, but takes so damn long time with 32gb ram. 400% coverage takes like 8 hours or something

Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## TK421

Nizzen said:


> Yes, memorykits are different. My old g.skill 3600c15 a1 in my x299running at 4000c16, is stable at more than 50c. Some of my new g.skill singlrank kits don't like 45c+ before them throwing errors at high speeds. Maybe due to different pcb, different node etc...


Might be with different batch, this one is August 2020






Canson said:


> Like 1.3 voltage for both VCCSA/VCCIO.
> 
> What seems more relevant to boot is to have at least 1.5 dimm voltage. Otherwise it won't post or will get bsod.
> 
> But even enough voltage and lose timings (19-19-19-39) it seems it can't get stable.
> 
> 
> I think i will stay with my current config which is 4133mhz 16-16-16-36 with 1.25v for vccsa and vccio and 1.5v for dimm
> 
> i did run this TM5 software with extreme anta777 config and was stable the whole test which was like 3 hours.
> 
> 
> I see many use this program. Is it good?
> 
> Usually i use HCI memtest pro, but takes so damn long time with 32gb ram. 400% coverage takes like 8 hours or something
> 
> Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk



For some reason my CPU don't like above 1.3 sa/io

Booting with >1.3 will not be stable with anything other than XMP


----------



## Ichirou

Canson said:


> Like 1.3 voltage for both VCCSA/VCCIO.
> 
> What seems more relevant to boot is to have at least 1.5 dimm voltage. Otherwise it won't post or will get bsod.
> 
> But even enough voltage and lose timings (19-19-19-39) it seems it can't get stable.
> 
> 
> I think i will stay with my current config which is 4133mhz 16-16-16-36 with 1.25v for vccsa and vccio and 1.5v for dimm


I tried a ton of different voltage settings with VDIMM/VCCSA/VCCIO (_much _higher than what you stated), but I don't think my CPU/motherboard is playing ball no matter what. I even tried fiddling with the skew control a bit. I can't reach CL14 or go above 4,180 MHz. Unfortunate. It just refuses to POST.

The only time I managed to get CL14 to POST was by screwing around with the DBBPLL or whatever it was, but it had a _ton _of serious problems. Honestly scary. Like my PC was melting down or something.


----------



## Canson

Ichirou said:


> I tried a ton of different voltage settings with VDIMM/VCCSA/VCCIO (_much _higher than what you stated), but I don't think my CPU/motherboard is playing ball no matter what. I even tried fiddling with the skew control a bit. I can't reach CL14 or go above 4,180 MHz. Unfortunate. It just refuses to POST.
> 
> The only time I managed to get CL14 to POST was by screwing around with the DBBPLL or whatever it was, but it had a _ton _of serious problems. Honestly scary. Like my PC was melting down or something.


Do you also use Z390 Master?

If yes , then don't forget to set your dram training voltage also , it's in separate place in bios.



Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

Canson said:


> Do you also use Z390 Master?
> 
> If yes , then don't forget to set your dram training voltage also , it's in separate place in bios.


Nah, it's an ASUS Prime Z390-A.


----------



## Canson

Ichirou said:


> Nah, it's an ASUS Prime Z390-A.


ahh ok

Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## sultanofswing

@Ichirou
So I am making some headway. I've got a setup that boots and has increased my Timespy CPU score 1100 points but I just cannot get them stable.
Timespy stable but neither TM5 or Aida64 Stress test.
Here is where I am at with timings. Increasing voltage did not help, currently at 1.505v

If I could get these stable it would be nice.


----------



## cx-ray

sultanofswing said:


> Timespy stable but neither TM5 or Aida64 Stress test.
> Here is where I am at with timings. Increasing voltage did not help, currently at 1.505v


I went through something similar with the TM5 test on an Asus R6A with x7900 CPU. Kept getting all kinds of errors with sometimes no errors at all. Loosening timings and or raising voltages in both CPU and RAM didn't help. Turns out my RAM needs tRCD and tRP to be at least 2 higher than CL. Perhaps that can help you as well.


----------



## Imprezzion

cx-ray said:


> I went through something similar with the TM5 test on an Asus R6A with x7900 CPU. Kept getting all kinds of errors with sometimes no errors at all. Loosening timings and or raising voltages in both CPU and RAM didn't help. Turns out my RAM needs tRCD and tRP to be at least 2 higher than CL. Perhaps that can help you as well.


Agreed, mine is the same, except for 4400C17 weirdly enough where it is perfectly happy at 17-17-17. 3800C14 needed 14-16-16, 4200C15 needed 15-17-17.

Then again, he's on 39xx MHz with 17-18-18-41.. If it's B-Die that is incredibly loose and cannot possibly be the sole cause of the errors.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> @Ichirou
> So I am making some headway. I've got a setup that boots and has increased my Timespy CPU score 1100 points but I just cannot get them stable.
> Timespy stable but neither TM5 or Aida64 Stress test.
> Here is where I am at with timings. Increasing voltage did not help, currently at 1.505v
> 
> If I could get these stable it would be nice.
> View attachment 2471520


Loosen everything and implement each timing in one by one, testing each time. Don't rush it. You need to isolate which timing is causing problems.
If you don't want it to take forever, use 1usmus' config for TM5; it's good enough.


cx-ray said:


> I went through something similar with the TM5 test on an Asus R6A with x7900 CPU. Kept getting all kinds of errors with sometimes no errors at all. Loosening timings and or raising voltages in both CPU and RAM didn't help. Turns out my RAM needs tRCD and tRP to be at least 2 higher than CL. Perhaps that can help you as well.





Imprezzion said:


> Agreed, mine is the same, except for 4400C17 weirdly enough where it is perfectly happy at 17-17-17. 3800C14 needed 14-16-16, 4200C15 needed 15-17-17.
> 
> Then again, he's on 39xx MHz with 17-18-18-41.. If it's B-Die that is incredibly loose and cannot possibly be the sole cause of the errors.


Tightening tRCD+tRP increases RAM temperature. Hence, raising them will naturally provide more stability.
The alternative is to loosen tRFC and tREFI; that reduces temps as well. I've found the most performance comes from tRCD+tRP, then tREFI, then tRFC. Strike a balance.

If you take a look at my readouts below with tRCD+tRP at 19 and at 20, you'll notice that I had to make compromises to stabilize temps at 19.
At 20, I actually had a bit of thermal headroom left, but there wasn't much anything else I could push on the kit. At 19, I'm basically running near max temp.


----------



## cruisant

12hr hci memtest on a generic Patriot mem  Hope to improve it, a little bit more.


----------



## Gen.

Greetings friends. I have now started working on 4 * 16GB DR B-Die. Z490 Tomahawk + 10600KF. So far I have been able to download 4200 17-18 auto ODT. Has anyone else tried 64GB?


----------



## WayWayUp

need some serious help with RTL/IO settings
using an apex 12 mobo with cpu cache at 50 and 4400 cl15
Everything is tuned perfectly except for RTL/IO
using 1.65v dimm and 1.22v vccio and 1.33vsa. (think i cant drop down to 1.3sa but i would like to finalize tuning first

getting about 35ns leaving them on auto with maximus tweak 2. got it down to 34ns playing around with rtls but they arnt ideal settings so i went back to auto. Everything is perfect passed all the stress tests even with tRFC @ 270 heating the sticks up it's fine and stable with direct air flow

could really use some suggestions at least with initial settings
my goal is to bring it down somewhere in the 33ns range


----------



## Ichirou

WayWayUp said:


> need some serious help with RTL/IO settings
> using an apex 12 mobo with cpu cache at 50 and 4400 cl15
> Everything is tuned perfectly except for RTL/IO
> using 1.65v dimm and 1.22v vccio and 1.33vsa. (think i cant drop down to 1.3sa but i would like to finalize tuning first
> 
> getting about 35ns leaving them on auto with maximus tweak 2. got it down to 34ns playing around with rtls but they arnt ideal settings so i went back to auto. Everything is perfect passed all the stress tests even with tRFC @ 270 heating the sticks up it's fine and stable with direct air flow
> 
> could really use some suggestions at least with initial settings
> my goal is to bring it down somewhere in the 33ns range


Show us a readout of your RTL/IOLs


----------



## WayWayUp

thanks for the reply. I am going to take pics and post them as soon as i get home


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Loosen everything and implement each timing in one by one, testing each time. Don't rush it. You need to isolate which timing is causing problems.
> If you don't want it to take forever, use 1usmus' config for TM5; it's good enough.
> 
> 
> Tightening tRCD+tRP increases RAM temperature. Hence, raising them will naturally provide more stability.
> The alternative is to loosen tRFC and tREFI; that reduces temps as well. I've found the most performance comes from tRCD+tRP, then tREFI, then tRFC. Strike a balance.
> 
> If you take a look at my readouts below with tRCD+tRP at 19 and at 20, you'll notice that I had to make compromises to stabilize temps at 19.
> At 20, I actually had a bit of thermal headroom left, but there wasn't much anything else I could push on the kit. At 19, I'm basically running near max temp.
> View attachment 2471599
> View attachment 2471600


Think one of the bigger things I am up against is not many people have X299 or even a X299 dark so trying to find a baseline for what setting does what is tricky.
Like i'd like to know ok, This setting helps this part of the bench and this settings helps that part of the bench.
Guess I just gotta find out on my own.


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> Think one of the bigger things I am up against is not many people have X299 or even a X299 dark so trying to find a baseline for what setting does what is tricky.
> Like i'd like to know ok, This setting helps this part of the bench and this settings helps that part of the bench.
> Guess I just gotta find out on my own.


Well RAM overclocking is a bit of a learning process, but once you've got a grasp on it, future overclocks can have a lot of shortcuts taken since there are plenty of "safe" values. If you make a lot of changes at once, then if there are any issues, you will have no idea how to pinpoint what the culprit is. You end up wasting more time this way.

I find that the easiest approach is to leave all of the temperature-sensitive timings for the end (the biggest ones were mentioned in the reply you quoted). Most of the secondaries and tertiaries are pretty forgiving, so they're a lot easier to work with. They either work or they don't, and aren't typically affected by other timings unless they're linked. (You should almost always tighten tCL and raise frequency first, though.)


----------



## SunnyStefan

WayWayUp said:


> need some serious help with RTL/IO settings
> using an apex 12 mobo with cpu cache at 50 and 4400 cl15
> Everything is tuned perfectly except for RTL/IO
> using 1.65v dimm and 1.22v vccio and 1.33vsa. (think i cant drop down to 1.3sa but i would like to finalize tuning first
> 
> getting about 35ns leaving them on auto with maximus tweak 2. got it down to 34ns playing around with rtls but they arnt ideal settings so i went back to auto. Everything is perfect passed all the stress tests even with tRFC @ 270 heating the sticks up it's fine and stable with direct air flow
> 
> could really use some suggestions at least with initial settings
> my goal is to bring it down somewhere in the 33ns range


ASRock Timing Configurator screenshot please, also are these 8gb single rank or 16gb dual rank dimms? If it's 16gb x 2 at 4400 MHz C15 I'm skeptical of your stability, however it's definitely possible.


----------



## 638220

SunnyStefan said:


> ASRock Timing Configurator screenshot please, also are these 8gb single rank or 16gb dual rank dimms? If it's 16gb x 2 at 4400 MHz C15 I'm skeptical of your stability, however it's definitely possible.



He showed me the performance, albeit was only the trial aida version but looks strong. Couldn't tell if it was dual ranked or single rank though because couldn't see the copy bandwidth


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> Well RAM overclocking is a bit of a learning process, but once you've got a grasp on it, future overclocks can have a lot of shortcuts taken since there are plenty of "safe" values. If you make a lot of changes at once, then if there are any issues, you will have no idea how to pinpoint what the culprit is. You end up wasting more time this way.
> 
> I find that the easiest approach is to leave all of the temperature-sensitive timings for the end (the biggest ones were mentioned in the reply you quoted). Most of the secondaries and tertiaries are pretty forgiving, so they're a lot easier to work with. They either work or they don't, and aren't typically affected by other timings unless they're linked. (You should almost always tighten tCL and raise frequency first, though.)


It certainly is. It can be frustrating sometimes. What I don't like about it is that there is no full guide. Instead I have to spend a lot of time scouring various forums/threads for bits/pieces of information. It's one thing for testing to take a bit of time which I understand but having to run around chasing information is kind of annoying. I wish there was an official Intel encyclopedia with a full table of contents/appendix to memory overclocking that tells you what to do in every situation and why so that I could print out and reference it whenever I need to. The git hub guide is great and a valuable asset but it doesn't explain the why or how all the memory timings work, i'm sure there is much more to memory OC..


----------



## WayWayUp

these were my initial results although I've tightened a few more timings, particularly tRAS at 32

also tried tRAS 30 and tRFC 260. Not worth the heat imho these sticks already get hot and i dont want to corrupt windows with RFC being too low
I'm using 2x8 gb sticks

so far passed the memtest64 and aida stability tests and its gaming stable which is what i was going for. I'm most interested in reducing my latency however which is why i want some help with the RTLs


----------



## 638220

WayWayUp said:


> View attachment 2471865
> 
> 
> these were my initial results although I've tightened a few more timings, particularly tRAS at 32
> 
> also tried tRAS 30 and tRFC 260. Not worth the heat imho these sticks already get hot and i dont want to corrupt windows with RFC being too low
> I'm using 2x8 gb sticks
> 
> so far passed the memtest64 and aida stability tests and its gaming stable which is what i was going for. I'm most interested in reducing my latency however which is why i want some help with the RTLs



c15-4400 is the configuration i've always wanted for daily use but sadly i don't think its possible on 4x8gb unless I were to bin many kits to find the right kits that could do it at low enough vdimm. My imc doesn't seem to like more than bios set 1.56v/vdimm on regular ambient temperatures. Props on getting c15-4400, only other person that I know that achieved that is DanCop, i'm not aware of anyone else. I think he used 15-17-17-34 primaries with 1.63v/vdimm, not sure of the board though. Nice work


----------



## 638220

Ok so I just passed p95-large fft avx2/fma3 320k-4096k Test1 for a gaming memory OC. 5ghz all core, 4.6ghz cache 8c/16t 4x8GB c17-4400. I don't know how to organize the windows to show that it didn't get any errors, it doesn't fit all on one screen lol. Tile/cascade only rearrange the appearance, not sure how to consolidate threads for a validation screenshot.

EDIT: NVM, I merged all the workers, that was simple. Annoying trying to fit everything into 1 screenshot lol.


----------



## Nizzen

WayWayUp said:


> View attachment 2471865
> 
> 
> these were my initial results although I've tightened a few more timings, particularly tRAS at 32
> 
> also tried tRAS 30 and tRFC 260. Not worth the heat imho these sticks already get hot and i dont want to corrupt windows with RFC being too low
> I'm using 2x8 gb sticks
> 
> so far passed the memtest64 and aida stability tests and its gaming stable which is what i was going for. I'm most interested in reducing my latency however which is why i want some help with the RTLs


Nice result.

No money for Aida64 key?


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Well RAM overclocking is a bit of a learning process, but once you've got a grasp on it, future overclocks can have a lot of shortcuts taken since there are plenty of "safe" values. If you make a lot of changes at once, then if there are any issues, you will have no idea how to pinpoint what the culprit is. You end up wasting more time this way.
> 
> I find that the easiest approach is to leave all of the temperature-sensitive timings for the end (the biggest ones were mentioned in the reply you quoted). Most of the secondaries and tertiaries are pretty forgiving, so they're a lot easier to work with. They either work or they don't, and aren't typically affected by other timings unless they're linked. (You should almost always tighten tCL and raise frequency first, though.)


Well I feel like just giving up on this kit. I cannot for the life of me get tRCD and tRP below 19 now matter how much voltage I throw at them.
I've went as high as 1.55v but then DIMM temps start getting to 50c.
I can get tCL to 16 at 1.45v and boot into windows and do benchmarks but long term stability is questionable.
Also "most" X299 boards have no issue with running the RAM at a 1T command rate, not this kit. Not even at 3600mhz
Either the IMC on the CPU is total trash or it's back to just trash B-die.

I'm looking at getting 2 sets of these Patriot Viper Steel 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 4000 RAM Memory - Newegg.com
I've heard some are B-Die and some are Hynix so it may be a crap shoot I dunno.


----------



## WayWayUp

ha I'll buy it but I was just being lazy.
plus I can still see my write and copy scores when i test separately.
More interested in the geekbench 3 license as the 32bit score im sure is off by a good amount


----------



## SunnyStefan

WayWayUp said:


> I'm most interested in reducing my latency however which is why i want some help with the RTLs


I have the same motherboard as you but my memory configuration is different (2x16gb instead of 2x8gb), the correct RTL values for *you* will vary depending on a multitude of factors.

If you want help with optimizing your RTLs / IOLs you really need to share your current RTL/IOL values, they will serve as a starting point or point of reference. It would also be helpful to know if these values drift up/down from boot to boot (I'm assuming you have them on AUTO). Here's an example of what Ichirou and I have been asking you to share with us:


----------



## Nizzen

blacknbigger212 said:


> Ok so I just passed p95-large fft 320k-4096k Test1 for a gaming memory OC. 5ghz all core, 4.6ghz cache 8c/16t 4x8GB c17-4400. I don't know how to organize the windows to show that it didn't get any errors, it doesn't fit all on one screen lol. Tile/cascade only rearrange the appearance, not sure how to consolidate threads for a validation screenshot.


Use ramtest, runmemtest pro, gsat etc..Read the first post in this very thread


----------



## Ichirou

WayWayUp said:


> View attachment 2471865
> 
> 
> these were my initial results although I've tightened a few more timings, particularly tRAS at 32
> 
> also tried tRAS 30 and tRFC 260. Not worth the heat imho these sticks already get hot and i dont want to corrupt windows with RFC being too low
> I'm using 2x8 gb sticks
> 
> so far passed the memtest64 and aida stability tests and its gaming stable which is what i was going for. I'm most interested in reducing my latency however which is why i want some help with the RTLs


The thing about tRAS is that on Intel boards, it is largely linked to tRC, which is an implicit timing.
Each PC has a minimum tRC that it will accept before it just gives problems, even though the lowest theoretical tRAS is tCL + tRP. The best way to calculate it is to find the lowest tRAS you can pass tests with error free at a _higher _tRCD+tRP.

For example, if you are stable with 15-15-15-36 right now, tRC = tRP + tRAS = 51.
This means that _theoretically assuming _you can do 14 for your tRCD+tRP, tRAS would need to be 37 instead in order for tRC to stay at 51.
That is to say: You sometimes need to raise tRAS to stabilize tighter tRCD+tRP.

And yes, tRFC adds a ton of heat. Hence, it's best to tighten it after the secondaries and tertiaries so you don't introduce heat-related errors. Have you tried TM5 yet?

Most Samsung B-die settles around the 30-40 ns area, so you're already in a good spot. But for RTL/IOL, we would need to see a readout.


sultanofswing said:


> Well I feel like just giving up on this kit. I cannot for the life of me get tRCD and tRP below 19 now matter how much voltage I throw at them.
> I've went as high as 1.55v but then DIMM temps start getting to 50c.
> I can get tCL to 16 at 1.45v and boot into windows and do benchmarks but long term stability is questionable.
> Also "most" X299 boards have no issue with running the RAM at a 1T command rate, not this kit. Not even at 3600mhz
> Either the IMC on the CPU is total trash or it's back to just trash B-die.
> 
> I'm looking at getting 2 sets of these Patriot Viper Steel 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 4000 RAM Memory - Newegg.com
> I've heard some are B-Die and some are Hynix so it may be a crap shoot I dunno.


I have a Micron B-die kit that refuses to go below 19 as well. Just doesn't POST. tCL minimum is 15 as well. Probably a board issue with Z390. I can't do 1T, just won't let me.
Patriot _loves _to mix dies. Buy at your own risk, lol.


----------



## WayWayUp

SunnyStefan said:


> I have the same motherboard as you but my memory configuration is different (2x16gb instead of 2x8gb), the correct RTL values for *you* will vary depending on a multitude of factors.
> 
> If you want help with optimizing your RTLs / IOLs you really need to share your current RTL/IOL values, they will serve as a starting point or point of reference. It would also be helpful to know if these values drift up/down from boot to boot (I'm assuming you have them on AUTO). Here's an example of what Ichirou and I have been asking you to share with us:


i understand what those are but im at work still and wont have access to computer in question for another 3hrs

also not familiar with tm5 maybe ill give it a try as well


----------



## 638220

Nizzen said:


> Use ramtest, runmemtest pro, gsat etc..Read the first post in this very thread


I already did a ram test to 6400 completion not long ago with a similar configuration, i never saved a validation screenshot or posted it because I didn't think I was going to use c17-4400 for daily use. I usually use HCImemtestpro but I i'm trying to learn the ins/outs of p95 as I don't have much experience with it. I was informed that running p95 320k-4096 large fft avx2/fma3 enabled with test 1 only is a pretty good imc/ram test provided at least 90% of ram is under load for the duration of the test. Given that I also let the test wrap around back to the beginning without errors, I'd consider this stable enough for gaming. Maybe not NASA/PENTAGON stable, but stable enough for gaming. I'd run linpack extreme on it but my cooling isn't good enough to pass at 5ghz anyway so this will have to suffice.

Also, Here is a c17-4400 memtest pro short validation that I still had saved from a slightly different configuration. I hope this appeases you . If not, no sweat on my behalf because these meet my stability standard. If the mods think these tests aren't good enough on 4x8gb to remain in this thread, they are more than welcome to delete them from the thread. I also tried for c16-4400 with many different combinations of timings over the last couple weeks with 16-16-16-34, 16-17-17-34, 16-17-17-35, 16-17-17-36 but no luck with stability, at least not with 1.5v/vdimm. Not gonna bother with 4500+. I'm actually pretty happy with the c17-4400 since I can run with 5ghz all core. btw nizzen, quit busting my balls and go bin some 4x8gb so that maybe I can learn something new for a change, i know you got plenty of boards/dimms/chips to work with. Show me why I should want a maximus code XI, show me c16-4400 on 4x8gb at 1.5v/vdimm stable or better yet show me 4x8gb c18-4600 stable with tight subs and reasonable volts, i couldn't justify another motherboard purchase unless i'm getting another 200mhz at least.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> The thing about tRAS is that on Intel boards, it is largely linked to tRC, which is an implicit timing.
> Each PC has a minimum tRC that it will accept before it just gives problems, even though the lowest theoretical is tCL + tRP. The best way to calculate it is to find the lowest tRAS you can pass tests with error free at a _higher _tRCD+tRP.
> 
> For example, if you are stable with 15-15-15-32 right now, tRC = tRP + tRAS = 51.
> This means that _theoretically assuming _you can do 14 for your tRCD+tRP, tRAS would need to be 37 instead in order for tRC to stay at 51.
> That is to say: You sometimes need to raise tRAS to stabilize tighter tRCD+tRP.
> 
> And yes, tRFC adds a ton of heat. Hence, it's best to tighten it after the secondaries and tertiaries so you don't introduce heat-related errors. Have you tried TM5 yet?
> 
> Most Samsung B-die settles around the 30-40 ns area, so you're already in a good spot. But for RTL/IOL, we would need to see a readout.
> 
> I have a Micron B-die kit that refuses to go below 19 as well. Just doesn't POST. tCL minimum is 15 as well. Probably a board issue with Z390. I can't do 1T, just won't let me.
> Patriot _loves _to mix dies. Buy at your own risk, lol.


So do you know what has the most bearing on the Write speed in AIDA benchmark?


----------



## Ichirou

sultanofswing said:


> So do you know what has the most bearing on the Write speed in AIDA benchmark?


Uhhh, I don't remember clearly now, honestly. But what I did notice is that, most of the primaries and secondaries I significantly tightened over the last month barely touched the Write and Copy speeds (they may have even been placebo). So I imagine that their performance is largely linked to tCL and frequency, some secondaries, and the tertiaries.

Give me a moment to look back through my AIDA64 test result history and see where the biggest jumps occurred.


----------



## Placekicker19

New 3600 cl 14 16gb kit. 4500 c17 tight stable.
68794 read
69932 write
64655 copy
35.0 latency


----------



## Ichirou

Notes are a bit jumbled up, but it seems like for Write and Copy speeds: tREFI, CPU cache clock, tCKE, tRCD+tRP, DRAM frequency, tRFC.
_Loosely _in that order going from biggest to smallest effect.


----------



## sultanofswing

Ichirou said:


> Notes are a bit jumbled up, but it seems like for Write and Copy speeds: tREFI, CPU cache clock, tCKE, tRCD+tRP, DRAM frequency, tRFC.
> _Loosely _in that order going from biggest to smallest effect.


I may have just gotten somewhere. I have not tested long term stability yet but before when trying for 18,18 for tRCD and tRP I could not make it even 1 minute in TM5.
Well I just applied a 450mv offset to my Uncore voltage and made it to 5 minutes before I stopped the test without errors.
That is with tRefi at 32767 which is max on this board and tRFC at 500.
Gonna see if I can bring tRFC down to the low 400's now I think.

Edit-Scratch that, putting RAM at default XMP. Done wasted 5 days on this garbage kit not wasting any more.


----------



## Nizzen

blacknbigger212 said:


> I already did a ram test to 6400 completion not long ago with a similar configuration, i never saved a validation screenshot or posted it because I didn't think I was going to use c17-4400 for daily use. I usually use HCImemtestpro but I i'm trying to learn the ins/outs of p95 as I don't have much experience with it. I was informed that running p95 320k-4096 large fft avx2/fma3 enabled with test 1 only is a pretty good imc/ram test provided at least 90% of ram is under load for the duration of the test. Given that I also let the test wrap around back to the beginning without errors, I'd consider this stable enough for gaming. Maybe not NASA/PENTAGON stable, but stable enough for gaming. I'd run linpack extreme on it but my cooling isn't good enough to pass at 5ghz anyway so this will have to suffice.
> 
> Also, Here is a c17-4400 memtest pro short validation that I still had saved from a slightly different configuration. I hope this appeases you . If not, no sweat on my behalf because these meet my stability standard. If the mods think these tests aren't good enough on 4x8gb to remain in this thread, they are more than welcome to delete them from the thread. I also tried for c16-4400 with many different combinations of timings over the last couple weeks with 16-16-16-34, 16-17-17-34, 16-17-17-35, 16-17-17-36 but no luck with stability, at least not with 1.5v/vdimm. Not gonna bother with 4500+. I'm actually pretty happy with the c17-4400 since I can run with 5ghz all core. btw nizzen, quit busting my balls and go bin some 4x8gb so that maybe I can learn something new for a change, i know you got plenty of boards/dimms/chips to work with. Show me why I should want a maximus code XI, show me c16-4400 on 4x8gb at 1.5v/vdimm stable.
> View attachment 2471883


4x dimms is only fun for x299 apex. 2x dimm 2x 16GB is what's fun now. Before the good 2x16GB dualrank came, 2x8GB singlerank was fun


----------



## 638220

Nizzen said:


> 4x dimms is only fun for x299 apex. 2x dimm 2x 16GB is what's fun now. Before the good 2x16GB dualrank came, 2x8GB singlerank was fun


O cmon, show me 4x8gb on a 9900k with the maximus code xi. show me c18-4600 stable . If you can show me 4x8gb c18 flat-4600 stable with tight subs and reasonable volts on a 9900k 5ghz 8c/16t 4.6ghz cache on a consumer bios in the same prime large fft test that i used for the same duration, I will go buy one. Does asus want a new client? this is your opportunity to sell me on an asus product. Going out for the evening, will check back tomorrow morning.


----------



## FarmerJo

Placekicker19 said:


> New 3600 cl 14 16gb kit. 4500 c17 tight stable.
> 68794 read
> 69932 write
> 64655 copy
> 35.0 latency


Are you using the Gskill Neo kit? what do you think of the 3800 c14 kit?


----------



## Ichirou

FarmerJo said:


> Are you using the Gskill Neo kit? what do you think of the 3800 c14 kit?


The newish 3,800 MHz CL14 Trident Z Neo kit is pretty tightly binned. There hasn't really been anyone who described their results with it, and people on the 500 series platform for AMD mostly got stuck at that frequency (although it could have been due to a FCLK limitation).

The only notes I found for how they overclock was on the PCPartPicker page. 4,500 MHz 16-16-16-36 or 4,700 MHz 17-17-17-37, 1.5V. Not bad; shows linear scaling so 4,900 MHz CL18 is _theoretically _possible. But there's a thermal limit. There might be better B-die kits out there.


----------



## Nizzen

blacknbigger212 said:


> O cmon, show me 4x8gb on a 9900k with the maximus code xi. show me c18-4600 stable . If you can show me 4x8gb c18 flat-4600 stable with tight subs and reasonable volts on a 9900k 5ghz 8c/16t 4.6ghz cache on a consumer bios in the same prime large fft test that i used for the same duration, I will go buy one. Does asus want a new client? this is your opportunity to sell me on an asus product. Going out for the evening, will check back tomorrow morning.


Why do you have a fetish with 4x8GB? 

Using Apex z390 for 9900k... Not that easy to put 4x dimms on that board LOL.

I don't do slow memory. That's why I'm not doing 4x dimm on z390/z490. Couldn't care less


----------



## Placekicker19

FarmerJo said:


> Are you using the Gskill Neo kit? what do you think of the 3800 c14 kit?


Yeah I'm using a gskill neo kit. Its been my most stable best performing kit thus far. The 3800 kit is 1.5vs and 14 16 16, so it seems to be a well binned kit. I tested 4000 15 15 15 and it was stable at 1.45v, possibly lower. My gskill 4400c19 kit took 1.54vs to do 4500 c17 with looser secondaries and tertiaries, but still produced random errors. The neos passed with my first attempt using 1.49vs, will test a lower voltage tomorrow.
I booted and benched @ 4800mhz cl19 19 19 with 1.52vs. Didnt further test @4800, just wanted to make sure it was possible.


----------



## Ichirou

Placekicker19 said:


> Yeah I'm using a gskill neo kit. Its been my most stable best performing kit thus far. The 3800 kit is 1.5vs and 14 16 16, so it seems to be a well binned kit. I tested 4000 15 15 15 and it was stable at 1.45v, possibly lower. My gskill 4400c19 kit took 1.54vs to do 4500 c17 with looser secondaries and tertiaries, but still produced random errors. The neos passed with my first attempt using 1.49vs, will test a lower voltage tomorrow.
> I booted and benched @ 4800mhz cl19 19 19 with 1.52vs. Didnt further test @4800, just wanted to make sure it was possible.


What VCCSA/VCCIO was necessary?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I just got some DDR4-4000 CL19 32GB G.Skill. 
I cant get these to boot unless I drop to 3400. I thought AMD was bad but man what is wrong with Intel? 
It's Z390/9900K system.


----------



## Ichirou

ZealotKi11er said:


> I just got some DDR4-4000 CL19 32GB G.Skill.
> I cant get these to boot unless I drop to 3400. I thought AMD was bad but man what is wrong with Intel?
> It's Z390/9900K system.


Sounds like a bad board. Tried changing BIOS yet?


----------



## munternet

ZealotKi11er said:


> I just got some DDR4-4000 CL19 32GB G.Skill.
> I cant get these to boot unless I drop to 3400. I thought AMD was bad but man what is wrong with Intel?
> It's Z390/9900K system.


What board is it?
Also what voltages etc
If it's T topology it might have some trouble


----------



## Betroz

blacknbigger212 said:


> Also, Here is a c17-4400 memtest pro short validation that I still had saved from a slightly different configuration.


When you run Memtest PRO be sure to uncheck "Low priority threads", and with 32GB RAM and a 9900K, run with 16 x 1900MB.


----------



## Canson

Betroz said:


> When you run Memtest PRO be sure to uncheck "Low priority threads", and with 32GB RAM and a 9900K, run with 16 x 1900MB.


Why uncheck "Low priority threads"? What does it exactly do?

Skickat från min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Betroz

Canson said:


> Why uncheck "Low priority threads"? What does it exactly do?


You want to stress test the memory right? Then why run the test in low priority mode...


----------



## Nizzen

ZealotKi11er said:


> I just got some DDR4-4000 CL19 32GB G.Skill.
> I cant get these to boot unless I drop to 3400. I thought AMD was bad but man what is wrong with Intel?
> It's Z390/9900K system.


Userfailure most likely.
Wrong dimmslots?
Not enough voltages. Vdram, SA, IO
Old bios
Gigabyte MB 😅

Please give us more info


----------



## Imprezzion

Do you guys happen to have any suggestions outside of yeeting even more IO/SA at the "problem" I'm having?

Setup:

G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 2x16GB B-Die.
10900KF @ 5.2Ghz all core AVX0 4.9Ghz cache.
MSI Z490 Ace (is that a 4 dimm T-topology board?)

I can do 4400 straight 17's with tight subs and RTL/IO on just 1.46v DRAM and it's stable in both HCI overnight and TM5 Anta777 Extreme overnight as well a with Prime95 when testing CPU OC.

However to get it to this point of not erroring after 2 hours or so I need to use 1.40v SA and 1.33v IO. This is already very high. Now, if I wanna push more frequency as at just 1.46v there's miles of headroom to push 4500C17 or 4533 or maybe even 4600 or for example 4700 C18 or whatever. The DIMMs want to do more. The board / CPU don't however.

I can boot up to about 4800 but not happily and at for example 4600C18 @ 1.50v no stress test will run longer then like 10 minutes unless I absolutely yeet the SA to like 1.55v or something. Then it survives the test for quite a while but still isn't stable but don't wanna run that high of an SA under such a load really and definitely not 24/7 as I find 1.40v already high..

So, is there some magic timing or setting to allow a "bad" IMC to run higher frequencies without needing insane IO/SA voltages?

Oh, I forgot to mention, I tested these DIMM's in a different system with a Apex and a 10900K Avengers Edition (not a KF like I have) from a friend of mine, that combination had no issues at all running my DIMM's at 4600C18 @ 1,50v overnight and it even passed like 1 hour HCI+TM5 @ 4533C17 @ 1.59v and 4700C18 didn't seem like a problem either so the DIMM's themselves can do it, just not with my setup..


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Do you guys happen to have any suggestions outside of yeeting even more IO/SA at the "problem" I'm having?
> 
> Setup:
> 
> G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 2x16GB B-Die.
> 10900KF @ 5.2Ghz all core AVX0 4.9Ghz cache.
> MSI Z490 Ace (is that a 4 dimm T-topology board?)
> 
> I can do 4400 straight 17's with tight subs and RTL/IO on just 1.46v DRAM and it's stable in both HCI overnight and TM5 Anta777 Extreme overnight as well a with Prime95 when testing CPU OC.
> 
> However to get it to this point of not erroring after 2 hours or so I need to use 1.40v SA and 1.33v IO. This is already very high. Now, if I wanna push more frequency as at just 1.46v there's miles of headroom to push 4500C17 or 4533 or maybe even 4600 or for example 4700 C18 or whatever. The DIMMs want to do more. The board / CPU don't however.
> 
> I can boot up to about 4800 but not happily and at for example 4600C18 @ 1.50v no stress test will run longer then like 10 minutes unless I absolutely yeet the SA to like 1.55v or something. Then it survives the test for quite a while but still isn't stable but don't wanna run that high of an SA under such a load really and definitely not 24/7 as I find 1.40v already high..
> 
> So, is there some magic timing or setting to allow a "bad" IMC to run higher frequencies without needing insane IO/SA voltages?
> 
> Oh, I forgot to mention, I tested these DIMM's in a different system with a Apex and a 10900K Avengers Edition (not a KF like I have) from a friend of mine, that combination had no issues at all running my DIMM's at 4600C18 @ 1,50v overnight and it even passed like 1 hour HCI+TM5 @ 4533C17 @ 1.59v and 4700C18 didn't seem like a problem either so the DIMM's themselves can do it, just not with my setup..


Reduce cache clock (or raise Vcore); it's not even your RAM that is the problem here. I've experienced this sort of symptom plenty during my testing.


----------



## Placekicker19

Ichirou said:


> What VCCSA/VCCIO was necessary?


For 4500 c17 I used 1.235 vccio and 1.285 Vccsa, 1.45 dimm set. It took 1.2 io and 1.25 sa before I tightened rtls and iols. The dark overshoots voltages a bit, or thats atleast what software reports. It could just be the way the voltage controller reports it in monitoring software.


----------



## Placekicker19

Imprezzion said:


> Do you guys happen to have any suggestions outside of yeeting even more IO/SA at the "problem" I'm having?
> 
> Setup:
> 
> G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 2x16GB B-Die.
> 10900KF @ 5.2Ghz all core AVX0 4.9Ghz cache.
> MSI Z490 Ace (is that a 4 dimm T-topology board?)
> 
> I can do 4400 straight 17's with tight subs and RTL/IO on just 1.46v DRAM and it's stable in both HCI overnight and TM5 Anta777 Extreme overnight as well a with Prime95 when testing CPU OC.
> 
> However to get it to this point of not erroring after 2 hours or so I need to use 1.40v SA and 1.33v IO. This is already very high. Now, if I wanna push more frequency as at just 1.46v there's miles of headroom to push 4500C17 or 4533 or maybe even 4600 or for example 4700 C18 or whatever. The DIMMs want to do more. The board / CPU don't however.
> 
> I can boot up to about 4800 but not happily and at for example 4600C18 @ 1.50v no stress test will run longer then like 10 minutes unless I absolutely yeet the SA to like 1.55v or something. Then it survives the test for quite a while but still isn't stable but don't wanna run that high of an SA under such a load really and definitely not 24/7 as I find 1.40v already high..
> 
> So, is there some magic timing or setting to allow a "bad" IMC to run higher frequencies without needing insane IO/SA voltages?
> 
> Oh, I forgot to mention, I tested these DIMM's in a different system with a Apex and a 10900K Avengers Edition (not a KF like I have) from a friend of mine, that combination had no issues at all running my DIMM's at 4600C18 @ 1,50v overnight and it even passed like 1 hour HCI+TM5 @ 4533C17 @ 1.59v and 4700C18 didn't seem like a problem either so the DIMM's themselves can do it, just not with my setup..


The apex is a beast. I know someone whos been running 1.55sa 1.45io since the boards released daily without issues. Every cpu behaves differently though. There's so much confusion surrounding sa and io voltages and whats considered safe.

What sa and io does 4500cl17 take?


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> However to get it to this point of not erroring after 2 hours or so I need to use 1.40v SA and 1.33v IO. This is already very high


I need about the same for my 4500C18 setup. 4300C16 requires even more IO/SA. So lower tCL, memspeed and looser on RTL/IOL will get you there - but as you know, you will get lower performance aswell.


----------



## 638220

Nizzen said:


> Why do you have a fetish with 4x8GB?
> 
> Using Apex z390 for 9900k... Not that easy to put 4x dimms on that board LOL.
> 
> I don't do slow memory. That's why I'm not doing 4x dimm on z390/z490. Couldn't care less


It's a personal preference and because 4x8gb has performance benefits in gaming over 2x8gb because of rank interleaving unless the 2x8gb config is clocked 300mhz higher than the 4x8gb config. also because the 4 dimm slots can let me go up to 128gb ram in the future.


How is dual ranked support on the z390 apex xi? Last time I was scouring the forums I read that it was not great and that users did not hit the same frequencies as they could on the z490 apex xiI with dual ranked memory. Is the z390 apex gonna let me do 4600 or higher on 2x16gb with tight subs at 1.5v/vdimm or less with less than 1.4v SA/IO for daily use? I would require 4800 with single rank on an apex to make it worth it to switch but 4800 requires more SA than i'd like to use daily. We have only seen a couple people post 4800/SR results, very few IMC will do it but the voltage requirements are more than I wish to use. But then if I did switch for dual ranked, i'd be forced to get yet another memory kit, which increases my costs even more. The maximus code xi would be the only motherboard i have any possible interest in(haven't looked at msi t-top boards yet though), and that is only if it could run 4x8gb at c17 or c18 flat 4600 with tight subs and reasonable volts, no more than 1.5v/vdimm daily and no more than 1.38v sa/io daily. So if you want to sell me on a maximus code xi, show me that it can be done. I'm willing to spend, just not on an apex because of voltage requirements for 4800/SR and because i don't really want to buy any more ram kits for awhile, just got a new one for xmas. Plus who knows, maybe my IMC can't even handle 4800mhz so i'd rather not take the risk to find out because if it can't then i'm stuck trying to resell hardware. Apex switch may possibly create more complications for me than i wish to deal with. If you have a maximus code xi, show me why I should buy one otherwise case closed. Sell me on a product that actually might make sense for me to buy in my situation(maximus code xi) or consider me a dead lead as i've said before because i don't want an apex as it does not suit my needs. I'm trying to be being very kind when I say this, please, find someone else to pitch on the z390 apex.


----------



## Betroz

blacknbigger212 said:


> If you have a maximus code xi, show me why I should buy one otherwise case closed. Sell me on a product that actually makes sense for me to buy in my situation(maximus code xi).


Geez how old are you kid...
RAM speed depends a lot on the IMC in your CPU, so not everybody can get 4400++ Mhz on the memory. If you are not willing to buy better hardware, then tweak what you got and be happy with that.


----------



## 638220

Betroz said:


> Geez how old are you kid...
> RAM speed depends a lot on the IMC in your CPU, so not everybody can get 4400++ Mhz on the memory. If you are not willing to buy better hardware, then tweak what you got and be happy with that.


Not as old as some of the other dinosaurs in this thread <3. I am willing to buy better hardware, I just need someone to show me that the maximus code xi can do what I would need it to do to justify me spending more money. Please don't blame me for wanting a proof of concept before opening my wallet, i don't think it is much to ask.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Nizzen said:


> Userfailure most likely.
> Wrong dimmslots?
> Not enough voltages. Vdram, SA, IO
> Old bios
> Gigabyte MB 😅
> 
> Please give us more info


MB: ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO (WI-FI) | ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
RAM: Trident Z RGB DDR4-4000MHz CL19-19-19-39 1.35V 32GB (2x16GB)

I have not touched any voltages. I only tried XMP. I believe I have the latest BIOS for this board but I have to check.

Just for reference. I could do with quick OC 3800 CL15 1.35v with 5900x/x570.


----------



## Betroz

blacknbigger212 said:


> Please don't blame me for wanting a proof of concept before opening my wallet, i don't think it is much to ask


If you just want to play some games, then a 10900K at 5.0 Ghz and memory at ~4000 Mhz is enough. You don't need to push for 4800 Mhz memory speed..
So even if a better motherboard may give you more OC headroom, it is not necessary for most gamers.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I had to increase memory voltage to get it to post 4000MHz CL19 from 1.35v (XMP) to 1.4v
VCCIO and VCCSA did not help up to 1.2v


----------



## 638220

Betroz said:


> If you just want to play some games, then a 10900K at 5.0 Ghz and memory at ~4000 Mhz is enough. You don't need to push for 4800 Mhz memory speed..
> So even if a better motherboard may give you more OC headroom, it is not necessary for most gamers.


I didn't get a new ram kit to run at lower speeds than my old ram kit could achieve. I got new ram kits so I could hit 4400 on all 4 dimms for daily gaming usage and i've done just that with pretty reasonable stability(hci, karhu, p95) so I'm happy with it. I bought a motherboard that supports 4400mhz ram because that is the ram speed I expect to run for daily use. I agree that it is not necessary for most gamers but 4000mhz is unacceptable for my personal standard when it comes to the rig i've invested money in. I'm staying at 4400. I also don't have a need for two extra cores at this time so I don't want a 10900k. I appreciate your suggestions. happy overclocking!


----------



## Ichirou

Placekicker19 said:


> For 4500 c17 I used 1.235 vccio and 1.285 Vccsa, 1.45 dimm set. It took 1.2 io and 1.25 sa before I tightened rtls and iols. The dark overshoots voltages a bit, or thats atleast what software reports. It could just be the way the voltage controller reports it in monitoring software.


What motherboard are you using? Those are really low SA/IO values for that frequency!


ZealotKi11er said:


> I had to increase memory voltage to get it to post 4000MHz CL19 from 1.35v (XMP) to 1.4v
> VCCIO and VCCSA did not help up to 1.2v


Glad you figured it out. They might've just been poorly binned sticks.


----------



## 638220

WayWayUp said:


> ha I'll buy it but I was just being lazy.
> plus I can still see my write and copy scores when i test separately.
> More interested in the geekbench 3 license as the 32bit score im sure is off by a good amount


When I asked about geekbench3 32bit vs 64bit scores on the geekbench3 forums I was informed by the devs that 64bit scores a bit higher with the same config compared to 32bit.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Ichirou said:


> What motherboard are you using? Those are really low SA/IO values for that frequency!
> 
> Glad you figured it out. They might've just been poorly binned sticks.


I have 10 sets I can try


----------



## 638220

ZealotKi11er said:


> I have 10 sets I can try


Hey, you've got me curious, What made you buy 10 sets of c19-4000 32gb as opposed to say 8 sets of c17-4266 32gb?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

blacknbigger212 said:


> Hey, you've got me curious, What made you buy 10 sets of c19-4000 32gb as opposed to say 8 sets of c17-4266 32gb?


Its for a bunch of machines I am building for someone. I have 12 sets of the RAM. I really did not look much into what RAM to get. It was what looked good at what was in stock.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Micron 3600C16 2*32GB

No temp sensors

Currently 4200 16-20-38 1.5V

AIDA Run









Quick Ollie test









mlc performance


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Micron 3600C16 2*32GB
> 
> No temp sensors
> 
> Currently 4200 16-20-38 1.5V
> 
> AIDA Run
> View attachment 2472110
> 
> 
> Quick Ollie test
> View attachment 2472111
> 
> 
> mlc performance
> View attachment 2472112


You got a great kit lol. Would it be possible to quickly bench it with a 47x cache clock just so I can compare the AIDA64 numbers to mine?
Trying to figure out how my kit is doing worse than yours. Leaning towards your CPU/motherboard just being newer and better.















There are some minor timing differences, but it should still be within the ballpark.


----------



## Imprezzion

That isn't even that far off a 4200 straight 16 clock on a set of Sammy B-Dies. I mean, bandwidth is basically identical just slightly higher latency by about 1-1.5ns but that's all.

I tried what you guys suggested on the previous page, less cache. Did kinda help. On Auto 4.3Ghz cache and just 5Ghz all core @ 1.25v fixed to eliminate most other things besides this board / CPU just not wanting it it still needs quite some IO/SA to pass higher frequencies. But at least it ran 2 hours of TM5 without errors on 4533 C18-20-20-40-350-2T @ 1.50v RAM, 1.45v SA 1.35v IO. It gave an error almost instantly on my normal 5.2 core 4.9 cache tho. And, it's not really any faster except a small gain in bandwidth compared to 4400 straight 17's. Latency was actually quite a lot higher but I partially blame that on the loose secondary and tertiary I set...


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> That isn't even that far off a 4200 straight 16 clock on a set of Sammy B-Dies. I mean, bandwidth is basically identical just slightly higher latency by about 1-1.5ns but that's all.


The main issue with Micron isn't so much the bandwidth but moreso the latency. It can never get as low as Samsung can.
However, I think that the extremely high cache clock (51x multiplier) is contributing to that. I have a comparable kit that I've pushed to the limits and still can't break the 40ns barrier even in Safe Mode. But I can't set a 51x cache clock to compare (my rig seems to reach a soft boot limit of 49x or so at 1.38V Vcore).


Imprezzion said:


> I tried what you guys suggested on the previous page, less cache. Did kinda help. On Auto 4.3Ghz cache and just 5Ghz all core @ 1.25v fixed to eliminate most other things besides this board / CPU just not wanting it it still needs quite some IO/SA to pass higher frequencies.


Yep, I knew about the cache being problematic mostly because of my own testing. It tends to cause issues after extended stress tests, probably because of heat accumulation. And over extended periods of PC use, it can cause crashing due to low Vcore.

IMO, Micron is more fun to play around with than Samsung is. With Samsung, you basically get low latency and tight primaries for free, so a large portion of the "game" is already finished for you. But with Micron, since the latency and the primaries suck, it provides for a good overclocking challenge.


----------



## Placekicker19

Ichirou said:


> What motherboard are you using? Those are really low SA/IO values for that frequency!


I'm using a z490 dark. It takes 1.325io and 1.375sa for 4800mhz, but only at cl19 19 19. I tried getting 4900 at cl19 but it crashed on boot, might work with loser timings though.


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> Yep, I knew about the cache being problematic mostly because of my own testing. It tends to cause issues after extended stress tests, probably because of heat accumulation. And over extended periods of PC use, it can cause crashing due to low Vcore.
> 
> IMO, Micron is more fun to play around with than Samsung is. With Samsung, you basically get low latency and tight primaries for free, so a large portion of the "game" is already finished for you. But with Micron, since the latency and the primaries suck, it provides for a good overclocking challenge.


Well, my next challenge will be getting 4x8GB B-Die to run a decent frequency + timings on a 10900KF and a Strix Z490-E board for a friend. He knows nothing about overclocking so I usually do that for him hehe. Got the CPU done, set up a custom OCTVB setup for him to allow the single core to still do 5.3Ghz but raise the all core limit to 5Ghz from 4.9 and allow it to run 5.1Ghz up to 4 cores. The poor Kraken X62 he runs won't hold up any higher. It's a SP63 chip that doesn't really do well voltage wise above 5Ghz all core.

Memory is on 4000 straight 16's now at 4.7 cache but I wanna see if I can pull any more out of it.


----------



## Ichirou

Placekicker19 said:


> I'm using a z490 dark. It takes 1.325io and 1.375sa for 4800mhz, but only at cl19 19 19. I tried getting 4900 at cl19 but it crashed on boot, might work with loser timings though.


Those are still incredibly low SA/IO values. I might even consider EVGA in the future if that persists, simply because it would contribute less degradation to the CPU compared to their competitors. I'm on an ASUS Z390 and already not comfortable with the idea of going over 1.30V for either one, lol.

I haven't really seen too many sub- 1.40V SA or IO for 4400+ MHz on modern boards; everyone seems to ride those voltages high. But I have heard from sources that the Apex is the crème de la crème of the 400 series.

In your opinion, how is the EVGA board you have? Is it user friendly and simple enough to overclock with?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> You got a great kit lol. Would it be possible to quickly bench it with a 47x cache clock just so I can compare the AIDA64 numbers to mine?
> Trying to figure out how my kit is doing worse than yours. Leaning towards your CPU/motherboard just being newer and better.
> View attachment 2472114
> View attachment 2472113
> 
> There are some minor timing differences, but it should still be within the ballpark.


Since now Im testing 4300, I might dial back when the test is done.

But I don't think there would be a lot differences in AIDA run. Mlc probably will show more.


----------



## Placekicker19

Ichirou said:


> Those are still incredibly low SA/IO values. I might even consider EVGA in the future if that persists, simply because it would contribute less degradation to the CPU compared to their competitors. I'm on an ASUS Z390 and already not comfortable with the idea of going over 1.30V for either one, lol.
> 
> I haven't really seen too many sub- 1.40V SA or IO for 4400+ MHz on modern boards; everyone seems to ride those voltages high. But I have heard from sources that the Apex is the crème de la crème of the 400 series.
> 
> In your opinion, how is the EVGA board you have? Is it user friendly and simple enough to overclock with?


The evga board has its quirks but its a good board. I have no problem benching a direct die 10900k @ 5.5ghz, or running 5.4 daily. Memory overclocking is much improved over z390 dark, but theres still issues. If I wanted the best board for memory overclocking on z490 I personally would chose the asus apex. Dont get me wrong the dark is a great performer, however they are always late to the game and dont have as good as support. The bios is easy to navigate and use.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Since now Im testing 4300, I might dial back when the test is done.
> 
> But I don't think there would be a lot differences in AIDA run. Mlc probably will show more.


Each +0.1 GHz step I make in the cache clock increases my bandwidth by around 800-1000 MB/s, so it's definitely significant. That's why I'd like to see a comparison on a more level playing ground to see if that made the difference in the latency. Will await your results


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> It's a SP63 chip that doesn't really do well voltage wise above 5Ghz all core.


That's typical I think, as my SP63 10900K caps out at 5.0 allcore too with my AIO (HT on). On custom loop it would of course do better. The IMC caps out at 4500C18 aswell (without going bananas with IO/SA).


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> That's typical I think, as my SP63 10900K caps out at 5.0 allcore too with my AIO (HT on). On custom loop it would of course do better. The IMC caps out at 4500C18 aswell (without going bananas with IO/SA).


I mean, we can run 5.1 all core but it needs about 1.29v for it and the poor AIO won't handle that lol.
That's why I am super excited for Intel XTU and it's new OC Thermal Velocity Boost in which you can set separate clocks for any combination of cores. 1-2 cores is on 5.3Ghz now, 3-5 cores 5.1Ghz and 5-10 cores 5Ghz. Works great!

Haven't tested IMC yet as it's pretty difficult so far for me to get the Strix E to boot above 4000 on 4x8GB sticks. It's not as easy to work with as my Ace is. And I just don't know the ASUS BIOS all that well.. it's been Z77 since I last used ASUS.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Each +0.1 GHz step I make in the cache clock increases my bandwidth by around 800-1000 MB/s, so it's definitely significant. That's why I'd like to see a comparison on a more level playing ground to see if that made the difference in the latency. Will await your results


Ram 4200, Ring at 47x


----------



## Ichirou

Thanks @OLDFATSHEEP, I'm convinced it's just an architecture thing now, then.

In other news: I think I royally f*cked up my RAM or CPU/mobo. I decided to update my BIOS to a new revision that came out the other day, and I tried fiddling with some settings at a higher VDIMM (1.70+ V) , none of which POSTed, so I reverted everything (including the BIOS) and retested TM5. Now I'm constantly getting errors even though I never got any before after multiple runs. I think heat is involved, but I've already played around with the case fan RPM and it seems like nothing is really changing.

Opinions? Did I fry something in the PC? For now, I'm going to try dialing down some timings and raising the case fan RPM more, but this kinda sucks. I didn't think there would be any negative effect on the PC when there hasn't even been any load on it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Thanks @OLDFATSHEEP, I'm convinced it's just an architecture thing now, then.
> 
> In other news: I think I royally f*cked up my RAM or CPU/mobo. I decided to update my BIOS to a new revision that came out the other day, and I tried fiddling with some settings at a higher VDIMM (1.70+ V) , none of which POSTed, so I reverted everything (including the BIOS) and retested TM5. Now I'm constantly getting errors even though I never got any before after multiple runs. I think heat is involved, but I've already played around with the case fan RPM and it seems like nothing is really changing.
> 
> Opinions? Did I fry something in the PC? For now, I'm going to try dialing down some timings and raising the case fan RPM more, but this kinda sucks. I didn't think there would be any negative effect on the PC when there hasn't even been any load on it.


1.7V would still be low to destroy those sticks. 2V would be another story.

IMO it might just be a training issue. You changed sittings in the BIOS, then the BIOS trained both hidden and visible values accordingly. When you dial back your numbers, some of those already-trained values will be the new initials for training, which might cause problems.

You can try to reset your BIOS. Those correct values should come back.


----------



## Placekicker19

Evga Z490 dark, 4600 cl17, 1.49 dimm , 1.295 io , 1.365 sa. Read and write had a nice increase but latency went up a bit, probably can tighten rtls and iols more to bring it back down. Running testmem5, anta777 now.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 1.7V would still be low to destroy those sticks. 2V would be another story.
> 
> IMO it might just be a training issue. You changed sittings in the BIOS, then the BIOS trained both hidden and visible values accordingly. When you dial back your numbers, some of those already-trained values will be the new initials for training, which might cause problems.
> 
> You can try to reset your BIOS. Those correct values should come back.


What are you suggesting exactly that I should do, then? Reset the BIOS and then add timings back in gradually, having it re-POST each time?

At the moment I'm leaning towards a temperature issue, but I can't imagine these sticks suddenly becoming so sensitive to heat when they weren't before.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> What are you suggesting exactly that I should do, then? Reset the BIOS and then add timings back in gradually, having it re-POST each time?
> 
> At the moment I'm leaning towards a temperature issue, but I can't imagine these sticks suddenly becoming so sensitive to heat when they weren't before.


Yup, just try to reset the bios then re enter the timings.


----------



## Placekicker19

Ichirou said:


> Thanks @OLDFATSHEEP, I'm convinced it's just an architecture thing now, then.
> 
> In other news: I think I royally f*cked up my RAM or CPU/mobo. I decided to update my BIOS to a new revision that came out the other day, and I tried fiddling with some settings at a higher VDIMM (1.70+ V) , none of which POSTed, so I reverted everything (including the BIOS) and retested TM5. Now I'm constantly getting errors even though I never got any before after multiple runs. I think heat is involved, but I've already played around with the case fan RPM and it seems like nothing is really changing.
> 
> Opinions? Did I fry something in the PC? For now, I'm going to try dialing down some timings and raising the case fan RPM more, but this kinda sucks. I didn't think there would be any negative effect on the PC when there hasn't even been any load on it.


Unplug pc, clear cmos, remove battery and wait atleast 10 minutes to put it back in. Reflash bios to most stable and then re enter settings. If your aiming for 4400, start at 4000 and test to make sure everything is stable and then work your way back up to your overclock.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup, just try to reset the bios then re enter the timings.





Placekicker19 said:


> Unplug pc, clear cmos, remove battery and wait atleast 10 minutes to put it back in. Reflash bios to most stable and then re enter settings. If your aiming for 4400, start at 4000 and test to make sure everything is stable and then work your way back up to your overclock.


I finally managed to get TM5 to pass. I tried all sorts of things, including everything you both mentioned, but to no avail. I even tried fiddling around with airflow and fan speeds, and even uninstalling, blowing onto the RAM like a kid with a Game Boy cartridge, and reseating them. Frustrated, I looked at the TM5 error explanations here, and the one thing that really stood out to me was Error 6, "purely related to the IMC".

From past testing, I knew my sweet spot was 1.25V VCCIO, and whenever I tried increasing it above that, it would get progressively worse with each step up each time I tried TM5. I decided to try 1.24V just for the hell of it, and it passed . On a side note, I also noticed that iCUE messed up my radiator fan speeds, so that might have contributed as well, especially if it was truly a CPU issue.

Anyway, the good news so far is that TM5 passed, but the bad news is that I don't know whether it'll be stable for PC use. I got BSODs at 1.23V before, so 1.24V is really not that far off. I'll try retesting TM5 once more for good measure, and then I'll try some CPU stress tests to see if it's stable.


----------



## Placekicker19

Ichirou said:


> I finally managed to get TM5 to pass. I tried all sorts of things, including everything you both mentioned, but to no avail. I even tried fiddling around with airflow and fan speeds, and even uninstalling, blowing onto the RAM like a kid with a Game Boy cartridge, and reseating them. Frustrated, I looked at the TM5 error explanations here, and the one thing that really stood out to me was Error 6, "purely related to the IMC".
> 
> From past testing, I knew my sweet spot was 1.25V VCCIO, and whenever I tried increasing it above that, it would get progressively worse with each step up each time I tried TM5. I decided to try 1.24V just for the hell of it, and it passed . On a side note, I also noticed that iCUE messed up my radiator fan speeds, so that might have contributed as well, especially if it was truly a CPU issue.
> 
> Anyway, the good news so far is that TM5 passed, but the bad news is that I don't know whether it'll be stable for PC use. I got BSODs at 1.23V before, so 1.24V is really not that far off. I'll try retesting TM5 once more for good measure, and then I'll try some CPU stress tests to see if it's stable.


Having correct sa&io voltage can be tricky, especially if your right in the edge of stability. When my sa or io is right on the edge I may pass testmem5, but then bsod on my next boot. Temp plays a role too.


----------



## Ichirou

Placekicker19 said:


> Having correct sa&io voltage can be tricky, especially if your right in the edge of stability. When my sa or io is right on the edge I may pass testmem5, but then bsod on my next boot. Temp plays a role too.


1.25V VCCIO was perfectly fine prior to my tinkering with the BIOS; I'm not sure what exactly happened. I did two more tests since the last one that passed, one being soon after (I didn't restart or unplug the PC to clear the RAM) and it gave Error 11 and 13 (implying overheating), so I unplugged the PC to let the RAM actually cool off. The test afterwards passed.

I've ordered a Noctua case fan to replace this garbage RGB fan that I have. Going to need all the cooling I can get. Still, I'm glad to see that I can actually pass tests now. I'm not sure why the RAM is suddenly so heat sensitive even though I tried some tweaks that didn't even POST anyway. I spent the bulk of yesterday night and today working on this, so I'm kind of tired and it's time for me to just use the PC and see how that turns out. Hopefully I'm still stable at 1.24V.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Having correct sa&io voltage can be tricky, especially if your right in the edge of stability. When my sa or io is right on the edge I may pass testmem5, but then bsod on my next boot. Temp plays a role too.


Stress FPU in AIDA and run MT at the same time should help you find the correct IO&SA


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Stress FPU in AIDA and run MT at the same time should help you find the correct IO&SA


I'll start with tm5 anta777 extreme, if I get no errors I'll move to prime 112k. Its a pain sometimes getting stable, but I've never had issues with a memory overclock that passes 2 hours of prime 112k.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> I'll start with tm5 anta777 extreme, if I get no errors I'll move to prime 112k. Its a pain sometimes getting stable, but I've never had issues with a memory overclock that passes 2 hours of prime 112k.


The key IMO is moderately stress RAM+heavily stress CPU. Keep your ram around 10 watts should be enough.


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The key IMO is moderately stress RAM+heavily stress CPU. Keep your ram around 10 watts should be enough.


I'll give FPU and memtest a try. Do you mean regular hcimemtest? How long do you normally run the tests for?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> I'll give FPU and memtest a try. Do you mean regular hcimemtest? How long do you normally run the tests for?


Yea, regular hci or MT4.0. 1 hr IMO is enough.


----------



## Thomas Cawley

Sorry if this has been answered a million times already, I searched and keep getting different answers. On my MSI z490 Godlike board I keep getting different values for my iol/rtl after restarting whether I make changes to primaries or secondaries or not. I have tried “memory fast boot” auto, disabled, slow training and disabled. Sometimes my RTL/iol look ok 65,64,7,8 and sometimes they are all over the place. Sometimes I have to reboot 3-5 times for them to change sometimes 1 boot. First question is if I’m making adjustments to try and tighten my timings should I set fast boot to disable and continue to reboot until I get the values I want? Does it work this way? Is this the training process? Do I do this for every single value change? Sorry for the noob questions. I’m using 4 x 8gb ram specs are in my signature


----------



## Imprezzion

Set RTL/IO mode to Fixed in stead of Auto / Dynamic. Problem solved. I even leave memory fast boot set to just disabled not even no training and it works fine for me on the Z490 Ace.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Hi guys,

someone once wrote here that you should bin your sticks and then put them in slots by their quality. Can someone please elaborate on how to do that?

Thanks.


----------



## Placekicker19

I discovered some odd behavior on the z490 dark. Im was running 4600 cl17 perfectly stable and i went to load my 4500 profile and it would spit errors after seconds, it was completely unstable. I then tried going back to my 4600 profile and I could no longer even boot into windows. 

Clearing my cmos and re entering all my timings makes me perfectly stable again, however attempting to load any profile results in instant errors or bsod at boot. I'm guess its a training error, which happens when loading a profile, or switching between profiles. I tried multiple bios which all exhibit the same behavior, switching profiles causes instant bsods and errors, but manually entering timings results in stability.


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> someone once wrote here that you should bin your sticks and then put them in slots by their quality. Can someone please elaborate on how to do that?
> 
> Thanks.


I tried some of the techniques people wrote about here (namely to lower the voltage and test each stick in each slot), but it didn't really result in much. The only way I managed to do it is because I had a specific timing that would only boot on specific sticks and slots, so it allowed me to determine how strong each stick was. But because each motherboard sets up their slots differently and it isn't always 1-2-1-2 (in my case, it was really confusing; the board claims it is 1-1-2-2 but actual results differed), there's never one real solution as to how to properly bin your sticks. I'd say that it is not significant enough to let you squeeze out any more performance if you've already maxed out.


Placekicker19 said:


> I discovered some odd behavior on the z490 dark. Im was running 4600 cl17 perfectly stable and i went to load my 4500 profile and it would spit errors after seconds, it was completely unstable. I then tried going back to my 4600 profile and I could no longer even boot into windows.
> 
> Clearing my cmos and re entering all my timings makes me perfectly stable again, however attempting to load any profile results in instant errors or bsod at boot. I'm guess its a training error, which happens when loading a profile, or switching between profiles. I tried multiple bios which all exhibit the same behavior, switching profiles causes instant bsods and errors, but manually entering timings results in stability.


Sounds like you're stuck in a similar situation like I am, albeit in my case resetting the BIOS and retraining the timings didn't help (probably because I already tightened literally everything possible except for skew). I guess that's why the "Don't fix what isn't broken" adage exists


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> I tried some of the techniques people wrote about here (namely to lower the voltage and test each stick in each slot), but it didn't really result in much. The only way I managed to do it is because I had a specific timing that would only boot on specific sticks and slots, so it allowed me to determine how strong each stick was. But because each motherboard sets up their slots differently and it isn't always 1-2-1-2 (in my case, it was really confusing; the board claims it is 1-1-2-2 but actual results differed), there's never one real solution as to how to properly bin your sticks. I'd say that it is not significant enough to let you squeeze out any more performance if you've already maxed out.
> 
> Sounds like you're stuck in a similar situation like I am, albeit in my case resetting the BIOS and retraining the timings didn't help (probably because I already tightened literally everything possible except for skew). I guess that's why the "Don't fix what isn't broken" adage exists


OK... so this how it looks, 4x8Gb, before touching it:










should I swap sticks around or is it good as it is?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> OK... so this how it looks, 4x8Gb, before touching it:
> 
> View attachment 2472376
> 
> 
> should I swap sticks around or is it good as it is?


That looks like single rank to me. You can make all the R1's 0. As for the RTLs themselves, 69-69-71-71 seems like bad training to me. You might want to Auto the RTLs and try getting the BIOS to retrain them until they're at most one apart. (Something like 70-all and 14-all.) After that, you can try to reduce all of the RTL/IOL together by 7.


----------



## SimplyQQ

everything here is on auto...


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> everything here is on auto...


Manually type in 69-69-71-71 for the RTLs, POST, go back into BIOS again, set back to Auto, POST.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> Manually type in 69-69-71-71 for the RTLs, POST, go back into BIOS again, set back to Auto, POST.


Thanks! I'l try!


----------



## Thomas Cawley

Imprezzion said:


> Set RTL/IO mode to Fixed in stead of Auto / Dynamic. Problem solved. I even leave memory fast boot set to just disabled not even no training and it works fine for me on the Z490 Ace.


So by setting it to fixed so you manually set the RTL/IO? If so what do you set it to for 4 sticks of ram?


----------



## Ichirou

Thomas Cawley said:


> So by setting it to fixed so you manually set the RTL/IO? If so what do you set it to for 4 sticks of ram?


Set all IOLs to the same value and reduce the corresponding Auto'd RTLs by the same amount. Try to train the BIOS to get all the RTLs to be the same or one apart at most.


----------



## warbucks

I picked up a new GSkill kit, F4-3600C14D-32GTRS(2x16GB). Timings are 14-15-15-35 @ 1.45V. Will be here Tuesday. Should be some fun for awhile with this one.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> Manually type in 69-69-71-71 for the RTLs, POST, go back into BIOS again, set back to Auto, POST.


I did that, something chaned, but not 69/71


----------



## SimplyQQ

P.S. This is Maximus XI Hero


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> I did that, something chaned, but not 69/71
> 
> View attachment 2472381


Well, one of the IOLs changed. The 69-13 one is effectively 70-14. So there's some progress. Keep retraining it. It's a bit of gamble sometimes. You don't have to boot the PC each time; just need to re-enter the BIOS after a POST and check the values again. You can set that one manually so it sticks.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> Well, one of the IOLs changed. The 69-13 one is effectively 70-14. So there's some progress. Keep retraining it. It's a bit of gamble sometimes. You don't have to boot the PC each time; just need to re-enter the BIOS after a POST and check the values again. You can set that one manually so it sticks.


what do I aim for?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> what do I aim for?


Basically, flat RTLs and flat IOLs, both as low as they can on Auto. Afterwards you reduce them manually.

For example, your current best one is 69-13. This translates to 70-14 (when adding +1 to both). You want to target either pairing for all of your RTL-IOLs. It's okay for the RTL or IOL to be off by 1 though (e.g. 69-69-70-70 and 14-14-14-14). Lock in ones that trained properly so they don't change.


----------



## SimplyQQ

So if i'm gonna lock them in anyway manually, can't I just try to enter them? Does auto training do something more? Is a difference of two that bad? I don't think I ever saw them less than that. Should I swap dimms? Or is this not related to a stick at all?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> So if i'm gonna lock them in anyway manually, can't I just try to enter them? Does auto training do something more? Is a difference of two that bad? I don't think I ever saw them less than that. Should I swap dimms? Or is this not related to a stick at all?


RTL/IOLs hate when they aren't linked. You can't reduce one without the other. You can try playing around with the slots, but really, it's just training. Seeing as you managed to hit 69-13 on a stick, it means that is a result you might be able to achieve on the others as well, with some luck.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> RTL/IOLs hate when they aren't linked. You can't reduce one without the other. You can try playing around with the slots, but really, it's just training. Seeing as you managed to hit 69-13 on a stick, it means that is a result you might be able to achieve on the others as well, with some luck.


so when you said gol is 7, is that IOL? in that case RTL should be 63? 

Does DIMM stick order in the slots have any relationship to this? Should I swap them around?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> so when you said gol is 7, is that IOL? in that case RTL should be 63?
> 
> Does DIMM stick order in the slots have any relationship to this? Should I swap them around?


Yep, they do have a relationship, although not a significant one. You can test it out though.

For your specific case, I think the ideal values would be 69-69-70-70 and 13-13-13-13. If you can get that, and it POSTs fine, set it to 62-62-63-63 and 7-7-7-7. You can try to drop them even lower, but that's a hit or miss.

Don't manually set those values though; it likely won't POST unless it's trained in first.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> Yep, they do have a relationship, although not a significant one. For your specific case, I think the ideal values would be 69-69-70-70 and 13-13-13-13. Once that POSTs fine, set it to 62-62-63-63 and 7-7-7-7.


What about Trace Centering, I've read something about it in relation to this? Any other BIOS settings worth checking?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> What about Trace Centering, I've read something about it in relation to this? Any other BIOS settings worth checking?


I've never really fiddled around with any other settings in the ASUS BIOS for RTL/IOLs. I only have a Prime, so I don't even have Trace Centering to begin with. Just keep rolling the dice until it works out.

If you want to force it to completely randomize, you can intentionally set a bad timing so the PC fails to boot, and then revert it and retrain it.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> I've never really fiddled around with any other settings in the ASUS BIOS for RTL/IOLs. I only have a Prime, so I don't even have Trace Centering to begin with. Just keep rolling the dice until it works out.
> 
> If you want to force it to completely randomize, you can intentionally set a bad timing so the PC fails to boot, and then revert it and retrain it.


Well but how is auto training better than just manually trying values? Seems easier, except if auto does something more than just that pair of values?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> Well but how is auto training better than just manually trying values? Seems easier, except if auto does something more than just that pair of values?


Allow me to illustrate:
You have 69-69-71-71 and 14-13-14-14 right now. Let's just round that off to 69-70-71-71 and 14-all.
Let's say you want 70-70-71-71, so it is only one off and well rounded. You try to manually put in 70 to replace 69, leaving the IOLs at 14-all.
It will probably fail to POST. Why? I don't know. The only way for it to actually POST is if the BIOS trains it on its own. Afterwards, you can manually lock it in.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> Allow me to illustrate:
> You have 69-69-71-71 and 14-13-14-14 right now. Let's just round that off to 69-70-71-71 and 14-all.
> Let's say you want 70-70-71-71, so it is only one off and well rounded. You try to manually put in 70 to replace 69, leaving the IOLs at 14-all.
> It will probably fail to POST. Why? I don't know. The only way for it to actually POST is if the BIOS trains it on its own. Afterwards, you can manually lock it in.


I see. But does 1 difference really matter that much? Git-hub guide seems to suggest that up to 2 is OK? I still wonder if I should try swapping sticks around, that is, if these values are related to board layout/IMC or to actual sticks of ram?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> I see. But does 1 difference really matter that much? Git-hub guide seems to suggest that up to 2 is OK? I still wonder if I should try swapping sticks around, that is, if these values are related to board layout/IMC or to actual sticks of ram?


Whatever you deem fine is up to you, really. It's your RAM after all, lol. It would just be slower on paper.
You can try swapping sticks around slots to see if the lottery works out better. YMMV.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> Well but how is auto training better than just manually trying values? Seems easier, except if auto does something more than just that pair of values?


not that hard, just set iol offset=15 for both channels.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> not that hard, just set iol offset=15 for both channels.


Out of curiosity, what does RTL Init, IOL Offset, and RFR Delay do? I left them on Auto for now, with manually tightened RTL/IOLs. Is there any more performance to be squeezed out with those?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Out of curiosity, what does RTL Init, IOL Offset, and RFR Delay do? I left them on Auto for now, with manually tightened RTL/IOLs. Is there any more performance to be squeezed out with those?


RTL=IOL+IOL offset+2*tCL+delay. This equation is for auto RTL.

RTL initial and IOL initial are for AUTO RTL&IOL iterations.

Haven't really looked into RFR delay. Should be sth related to IOL.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> RTL=IOL+IOL offset+2*tCL+delay. This equation is for auto RTL.
> 
> RTL initial and IOL initial are for AUTO RTL&IOL iterations.
> 
> Haven't really looked into RFR delay. Should be sth related to IOL.


Okay, so the Init values effectively do nothing if you set the values manually.

If you lock in the RTLs, leave the IOLs on Auto, and then increase the IOL Offset, would it decrease the IOLs alone then, based on that equation? Or can you not lock in the RTLs?
I found this post on the net. It seems to give some clarification about the IOL Offset and RFR Delay, but the info seems confusing.

Perhaps I'll have to do some of my own experimentation just to see how it turns out.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Okay, so the Init values effectively do nothing if you set the values manually.
> 
> If you lock in the RTLs, leave the IOLs on Auto, and then increase the IOL Offset, would it decrease the IOLs alone then, based on that equation?
> I found this post on the net. It seems to give some clarification about the IOL Offset and RFR Delay, but the info seems confusing.


Those offsets and initials do become invalid if you just manually entered numbers.

Maybe increasing iol offset will decrease your auto IOL, but I haven't tried.

Seems RFR delay is related to calculating auto IOL. I normally just left it auto.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> someone once wrote here that you should bin your sticks and then put them in slots by their quality. Can someone please elaborate on how to do that?
> 
> Thanks.


For 4Dimm boards, you do need to bin your sticks using the same slot, like b2 (farthest from the cpu), and the same fixed timings.

Then arrange them with A-D, from the best to the worst. Put them in A:A1, C:A2, B:B1, D:B2.


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For 4Dimm boards, you do need to bin your sticks using the same slot, like b2 (farthest from the cpu), and the same fixed timings.
> 
> Then arrange them with A-D, from the best to the worst. Put them in A:A1, C:A2, B:B1, D:B2.


how do I bin them? see lovest stable voltage or some other way?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> how do I bin them? see lovest stable voltage or some other way?


Fix freq., timings, and volts, run TM5 or MT4.5. You will find which ones are better.


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Fix freq., timings, and volts, run TM5 or MT4.5. You will find which ones are better.


hm if everything is fixed, do I just check which errors sooner or what?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> hm if everything is fixed, do I just check which errors sooner or what?


Yup just check errors. If all passed you can change numbers and test again, until you have sorted them out.


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup just check errors. If all passed you can change numbers and test again, until you have sorted them out.


damn, sounds like awful lot of time. But ok.

Anyway, for me the problem seems to be, that I find what seems a stable set, which can run prime, tm5 extreme 3 cycles etc without errors, but if i run memorytesthelper or olllie it throws one error after like 10-12 hours of running :/ which I hate.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup just check errors. If all passed you can change numbers and test again, until you have sorted them out.


If you already have a stable config, wouldn't all the DIMMs theoretically work in the last slot? Or is there something special about that slot that I'm failing to realize?
Wouldn't it be easier to test one slot with each stick and see the lowest VDIMM that they can boot at, and then rank them based on that?

In my case, since my DIMMs are of the exact same batch (one after the other), they were practically the same. The only thing that really set them apart for me was that some sticks could boot a specific bad timing more successfully than others.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> damn, sounds like awful lot of time. But ok.
> 
> Anyway, for me the problem seems to be, that I find what seems a stable set, which can run prime, tm5 extreme 3 cycles etc without errors, but if i run memorytesthelper or olllie it throws one error after like 10-12 hours of running :/ which I hate.


IMO 10-12 is too long. I usually test Ollie or anta777EX for 1hr atm.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> If you already have a stable config, wouldn't all the DIMMs theoretically work in the last slot? Or is there something special about that slot that I'm failing to realize?
> Wouldn't it be easier to test one slot with each stick and see the lowest VDIMM that they can boot at, and then rank them based on that?


Yeah you can also change volts to bin them. For me I just set super tight timings, and run TM5, see which one errors faster.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yeah you can also change volts to bin them. For me I just set super tight timings, and run TM5, see which one errors faster.


Does the furthest slot have the lowest power input or something? Why that one and not the other slots, for example?
And if that is true, wouldn't putting the best stick in the closest slot be counterintuitive?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Does the furthest slot have the lowest power input or something? Why that one and not the other slots, for example?


B2 slot has the best signal. Other slots might just bring you extra difficulties.

Also, sticks might not scale linearly with the VDIMM. Its better to bin under your target VDIMM.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> B2 slot has the best signal. Other slots might just bring you extra difficulties.
> 
> Also, sticks might not scale linearly with the VDIMM. Its better to bin under your target VDIMM.


Oh, so B2 is the best slot (and A1 is the worst), so you try to test the sticks so that the worst DIMM goes into B2 (and the best goes into A1)?
And I presume that lowering VDIMM makes it easier to find errors sooner.


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> IMO 10-12 is too long. I usually test Ollie or anta777EX for 1hr atm.


but why would it error after that time? i want 24/7 100% stable...


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> but why would it error after that time? i want 24/7 100% stable...


Heat, or random outlier. You could be perfectly stable, but a glitch happens down the road with the OS itself and not the hardware.


----------



## Arctucas

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> RTL=IOL+IOL offset+2*tCL+delay. This equation is for auto RTL.
> 
> RTL initial and IOL initial are for AUTO RTL&IOL iterations.
> 
> Haven't really looked into RFR delay. Should be sth related to IOL.


Is this only for Asus motherboards?

My Z390 Dark, with all RTL and IOL on AUTO, has:
RTL (CHA)=60
RTL (CHB)=61
IOL (CHA)=6
IOL (CHB)=6
IOL offset (CHA)=21
IOL offset (CHB)=21

tCL=16

The only delay I have is RFR Delay = 14 for both channels.

So, 21+6+(2x16)=59.










Should it not be CHA IOL offset = 22, and CHB IOL offset = 23?


----------



## Ichirou

@Arctucas I have an ASUS mobo, and the math didn't add up for me either, lol


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Oh, so B2 is the best slot (and A1 is the worst), so you try to test the sticks so that the worst DIMM goes into B2 (and the best goes into A1)?
> And I presume that lowering VDIMM makes it easier to find errors sooner.


Yes, so that to bring up the signal level


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> but why would it error after that time? i want 24/7 100% stable...


How about run it for a week? You can only achieve a relatively stable condition. For me, 1hr is enough to ensure my video editing work and my gaming when GPU heats the ram up.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Arctucas said:


> Is this only for Asus motherboards?
> 
> My Z390 Dark, with all RTL and IOL on AUTO, has:
> RTL (CHA)=60
> RTL (CHB)=61
> IOL (CHA)=6
> IOL (CHB)=6
> IOL offset (CHA)=21
> IOL offset (CHB)=21
> 
> tCL=16
> 
> The only delay I have is RFR Delay = 14 for both channels.
> 
> So, 21+6+(2x16)=59.
> 
> View attachment 2472426
> 
> 
> Should it not be CHA IOL offset = 22, and CHB IOL offset = 23?


For most of the boards. Remember there is a "delay" term. The number of "delay" may vary.

This "delay" is not RFR delay. Most of the time the default "delay" is 10. If you set the RTL manually, the equation might not work.


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> How about run it for a week? You can only achieve a relatively stable condition. For me, 1hr is enough to ensure my video editing work and my gaming when GPU heats the ram up.


none of my older platforms would ever "glitch". No matter if it's a week or a month...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> none of my older platforms would ever "glitch". No matter if it's a week or a month...


I mean test the RAM. You think 12hrs might be "stable", while sb might ask you to run TM5 anta777EX for 7*24hrs to prove "stable".


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I mean test the RAM. You think 12hrs might be "stable", while sb might ask you to run TM5 anta777EX for 7*24hrs to prove "stable".


yeah but why would it error? if it errors, it's not stable enough...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> yeah but why would it error? if it errors, it's not stable enough...


Usually when it has passed 1 cycle and errors come up, may think about temperature reasons (sticks, VRM, etc.)


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> yeah but why would it error? if it errors, it's not stable enough...


Consider this: When I leave my PC on idle for 30+ hours, it'll eventually just throw a BSOD and crash. Happens around 4/5 times.
Nothing special being done in particular. It just happens. Windows 10 isn't exactly perfect.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> Consider this: When I leave my PC on idle for 30+ hours, it'll eventually just throw a BSOD and crash. Happens around 4/5 times.
> Nothing special being done in particular. It just happens. Windows 10 isn't exactly perfect.


Neither of my other systems are doing this. In fact, some of them have been runing for over a year now. And that includes sleep/resume.


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> Neither of my other systems are doing this. In fact, some of them have been runing for over a year now. And that includes sleep/resume.


Luck of the draw. If 24/7 stability is of paramount concern, don't overclock, lol


----------



## munternet

SimplyQQ said:


> yeah but why would it error? if it errors, it's not stable enough...


I think having an occasional error and being stable are two different things.
Errors are picked up and corrected by windows unless there is something terribly wrong from my experience. 1 hourGSAT will show most detrimental errors along with TM5
As for blue screens, I don't get any and don't expect to, unless again something is very wrong


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> Luck of the draw. If 24/7 stability is of paramount concern, don't overclock, lol


Well I don't agree. If stock can be stable 24/7, overclock can be too. Those systems are overclocked too. You just need to back down a bit. If my system would crash every over day there is no way I would call that stable.


----------



## SimplyQQ

munternet said:


> I think having an occasional error and being stable are two different things.
> Errors are picked up and corrected by windows unless there is something terribly wrong from my experience. 1 hourGSAT will show most detrimental errors along with TM5
> As for blue screens, I don't get any and don't expect to, unless again something is very wrong


Well there shouldn't be any errors in the first place, no matter that some of them can be corrected.


----------



## munternet

SimplyQQ said:


> Well there shouldn't be any errors in the first place, no matter that some of them can be corrected.


My point was more that the odd memory error is likely not the culprit of blue screens. More likely CPU overclock or cache


----------



## SimplyQQ

munternet said:


> My point was more that the odd memory error is likely not the culprit of blue screens. More likely CPU overclock or cache


I don't get any blue screens. I just want the tests to never error.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

munternet said:


> My point was more that the odd memory error is likely not the culprit of blue screens. More likely CPU overclock or cache


Correct. I would check the VRM and the PSU.


----------



## SimplyQQ

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Correct. I would check the VRM and the PSU.


It's neither, if I run stock speed ram it's doesn't error ever. The temps are under 36 for ram, under 31 for mobo, under 42 for vrm. And even then I don't see how vrm or psu could be responsible for errors only after 10-12 hours.


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> It's neither, if I run stock speed ram it's doesn't error ever. The temps are under 36 for ram, under 31 for mobo, under 42 for vrm. And even then I don't see how vrm or psu could be responsible for errors only after 10-12 hours.


Then test every single timing change you make for however long you need until you are satisfied about its stability.
It'll take you a long time though.

There is a reason why the RAM is sold at its specified speeds and timings rather than whatever it could be overclocked to.


----------



## munternet

SimplyQQ said:


> It's neither, if I run stock speed ram it's doesn't error ever. The temps are under 36 for ram, under 31 for mobo, under 42 for vrm. And even then I don't see how vrm or psu could be responsible for errors only after 10-12 hours.


What tests are you running and do you have an asrock timing configurator shot?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SimplyQQ said:


> It's neither, if I run stock speed ram it's doesn't error ever. The temps are under 36 for ram, under 31 for mobo, under 42 for vrm. And even then I don't see how vrm or psu could be responsible for errors only after 10-12 hours.


If you OC, the signal drop might become prominent compared to stock.

For example, after 30hrs the VRM or the PSU becomes hot, the current ripples get larger, which may affect the IMC stability. Everything here is how the IMC can catch the RAM signal.


----------



## munternet

My coolant has gained a few degrees c lately to 34°c here in the southern hemisphere and I tested errors in GSAT at 4600c16 so I think I will have to lower the frequency for the summer.
I was thinking a loose latency 4500-16-17-17-36 or a medium 4400-16-17-17-36
It's probably for the best really


----------



## ViTosS

I wish I could use [email protected] and tight subtimings, 33.7ns latency in Aida64 at just 5000Mhz/4700Mhz CPU clock/cache, this is stable at Karhu 5h, but in TM5 the problem is that I get errors after 46-47c in the RAM sticks, and I can't do anything to improve my temps, at least during summer


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ViTosS said:


> I wish I could use [email protected] and tight subtimings, 33.7ns latency in Aida64 at just 5000Mhz/4700Mhz CPU clock/cache, this is stable at Karhu 5h, but in TM5 the problem is that I get errors after 46-47c in the RAM sticks, and I can't do anything to improve my temps, at least during summer


loosen tFAW and tRFC, lower tREFI, a lot you could do. 🥴


----------



## ViTosS

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> loosen tFAW and tRFC, lower tREFI, a lot you could do. 🥴


Nah I don't want to lose bandwidth and latency xD


----------



## ViTosS

Btw this is my result that I had to make to pass TM5, I passed Karhu 5h with tWRRD_sg and dg at 30/26 and also tRRD_L and S at 6/4 at 1.52v DRAM and 1.225v/1.300v IO/SA, so to pass TM5 I tried every voltage for the 3 (DRAM, IO and SA) without success, so I decided to put tWRRD_sg and dg and tRRD_L and S on AUTO and I was only able to pass with 1.55v DRAM this way, but the rest stood the same, tREFI 65534, tFAW 16, tWR 16 and tRFC 360, so I think these 4 timings that I had to put on AUTO are the most temperature sensitives...


----------



## Betroz

Ichirou said:


> There is a reason why the RAM is sold at its specified speeds and timings rather than whatever it could be overclocked to.


Yes, and same with CPUs and GPUs. These days the silicon is pressed to the max out of the box, at least for normal air cooling setups. Sure we can OC more with good cooling and adding more voltage, but then we must run all these "super" fun stability tests LOL.

People who _really need_ a stable system should not overclock, simple as that.


----------



## Nizzen

SimplyQQ said:


> yeah but why would it error? if it errors, it's not stable enough...


There is no 100% stable, just stable in given enviroment. Control the temperature, then it will be stable enough. 
You can do memorytests for years, but what's the point? There is no 100% stable programs with millions of different computer systems, various drivers and different temperatures.

When it's stable enough for you, it's stable.
If you want 100% stable, OCN isn't the place to stay 
It's a good reason critical servers/computers isn't overclocked...


----------



## Placekicker19

When attempting to find the optimal rtt park, nom, and wr values, will the timings change based on the ram frequencies and timings? Or should I find a value that works and it no matter the frequency or timings. The evga z490 dark doesnt show the auto values the board sets, which makes it difficult finding a starting point. I don't even know if messing with those timings would be worth it, since I'm already at 4600 cl17. I wish there was a way to find the auto values my board trains at. 

I really would like to set them manually, then I wouldn't have to worry about bad training when switching memory profiles. Ive seen so many recommendation, however it seems majority are for dual rank 2x16gb kits. Has anyone had success setting these for a single rank, bdie, 2x8gb kit? Which timings worked best for you?


----------



## Imprezzion

Any other combination other then 80/40/40 or 80/60/40 will not boot above 4200 on my MSI Z490 Ace. So, finding the optimal settings is easy for me as there's only 2 working ones haha.

Auto on my board is 240/0/80 and that doesn't boot past windows at all above 4000Mhz.

So yeah, 80/40/40 is the way to go for me.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> When attempting to find the optimal rtt park, nom, and wr values, will the timings change based on the ram frequencies and timings? Or should I find a value that works and it no matter the frequency or timings. The evga z490 dark doesnt show the auto values the board sets, which makes it difficult finding a starting point. I don't even know if messing with those timings would be worth it, since I'm already at 4600 cl17. I wish there was a way to find the auto values my board trains at.
> 
> I really would like to set them manually, then I wouldn't have to worry about bad training when switching memory profiles. Ive seen so many recommendation, however it seems majority are for dual rank 2x16gb kits. Has anyone had success setting these for a single rank, bdie, 2x8gb kit? Which timings worked best for you?


If don't consider the resistance scaling with temperature, there is only one set of ODT values.


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If don't consider the resistance scaling with temperature, there is only one set of ODT values.





Imprezzion said:


> Any other combination other then 80/40/40 or 80/60/40 will not boot above 4200 on my MSI Z490 Ace. So, finding the optimal settings is easy for me as there's only 2 working ones haha.
> 
> Auto on my board is 240/0/80 and that doesn't boot past windows at all above 4000Mhz.
> 
> So yeah, 80/40/40 is the way to go for me.


Have you tested those values with single rank 8gb sticks


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Have you tested those values with single rank 8gb sticks


Actually his value 80/0/240 (WR/NOM/PARK) was for Samsung SR 8GB stick from MSI.


----------



## Imprezzion

Yup. MSI lists them in a different order hehe sorry.

The DR's I don't know the defaults of lol. Never ran defaults on these DIMM's.


----------



## AeonMW2

I wonder. How much of a jump in VCCIO/VCCSA is needed (on average) to switch from 2 sticks of single rank dimms to 4 sicks of the same RAM? with same everything - timings/frequency.
For example - if i'm running 3800cl15 with 2x8 sticks i need 1.23/1.23 IO/SA
Planning to upgrade to 4x8. Will i need something like 1.3 IO/SA for the same 3800cl15 ?


----------



## Ichirou

AeonMW2 said:


> I wonder. How much of a jump in VCCIO/VCCSA is needed (on average) to switch from 2 sticks of single rank dimms to 4 sicks of the same RAM? with same everything - timings/frequency.
> For example - if i'm running 3800cl15 with 2x8 sticks i need 1.23/1.23 IO/SA
> Planning to upgrade to 4x8. Will i need something like 1.3 IO/SA for the same 3800cl15 ?


You'll never know until you try. For example, I'm sitting at 1.24/1.20 IO/SA for 4,174 MHz CL15 with 4x16 GB. There's no clear answer as it differs per system.


----------



## munternet

AeonMW2 said:


> I wonder. How much of a jump in VCCIO/VCCSA is needed (on average) to switch from 2 sticks of single rank dimms to 4 sicks of the same RAM? with same everything - timings/frequency.
> For example - if i'm running 3800cl15 with 2x8 sticks i need 1.23/1.23 IO/SA
> Planning to upgrade to 4x8. Will i need something like 1.3 IO/SA for the same 3800cl15 ?


Would you be better off selling those and getting 2x16GB due to the board being daisychain and not ideal for 4 sticks?
You have plenty of headroom with this gen if you do decide to go with 4 sticks and raise io/sa
4 sticks can be a little harder to cool due to their close proximity to one another 



Ichirou said:


> You'll never know until you try. For example, I'm sitting at 1.24/1.20 IO/SA for 4,174 MHz CL15 with 4x16 GB. There's no clear answer as it differs per system.


Could you do a rig builder/sig? I'm curious to see your setup


----------



## Thomas Cawley

Imprezzion said:


> Set RTL/IO mode to Fixed in stead of Auto / Dynamic. Problem solved. I even leave memory fast boot set to just disabled not even no training and it works fine for me on the Z490 Ace.


Yeah this didn’t work. “Setting RatL/IO to fixed”


----------



## SgtRotty

i test backwards from most people. i setup my settings then play battlefieldV. after i stopped crashing to desktop for months, i tested with testmem5. xtremeanta777 config. and 1usmus v3. i dont know how long is acceptable but its fine for me! thanks @KedarWolf . My daily runner


----------



## Ichirou

SgtRotty said:


> View attachment 2472739
> 
> i test backwards from most people. i setup my settings then play battlefieldV. after i stopped crashing to desktop for months, i tested with testmem5. xtremeanta777 config. and 1usmus v3. i dont know how long is acceptable but its fine for me! thanks @KedarWolf . My daily runner


That's a risky way of approaching RAM overclocking, but you were lucky, so it's not a big deal I suppose.
Definitely wouldn't recommend anyone else doing that, though. If the OC really isn't stable, you risk corrupting the system.


----------



## Jalindee

Hello. I have the following configuration: Gigabyte Z490 Gaming X, I7 10700K, Patriot Viper 4 Blackout 2x8 4400MHz. Ram stable works at 3900 mhz with timings of 18-18-18. Unfortunately, at frequency above 3900 there is an unstable work, errors in Testmem5 anta777 extreme, tried different voltages, timings. It seems to be tuning further useless. Built-in XMP profiles for 4400 and 4266 MHz are unstable. I need a stable RAM work at 4400 MHz, what is the combination of motherboard and RAM will provide 100% stable work at 4400 MHz? I suspect that in my case the motherboard is in fault, not RAM.


----------



## SgtRotty

Ichirou said:


> That's a risky way of approaching RAM overclocking, but you were lucky, so it's not a big deal I suppose.
> Definitely wouldn't recommend anyone else doing that, though. If the OC really isn't stable, you risk corrupting the system.


i had to reinstall windows couple times over a year's time. I had everything backed up good enuff didnt take long!


----------



## propsandmayhem

It seems using IOL Offset to lower IOLs to 0 doesn't affect my stability, just funny to me seeing them 0.


----------



## Ichirou

propsandmayhem said:


> It seems using IOL Offset to lower IOLs to 0 doesn't affect my stability, just funny to me seeing them 0.
> View attachment 2472756


Woah, how'd you pull that off? What are your RTL/IOL settings in full? Now I feel like experimenting lol
Also, don't set tWTR_S to 1, it makes latency unstable compared to 2.

I assume it's because the IOL Offset is set to 28, which means 0+28 = 28, while most people tend to set a manual IOL of 7 and leave Offset at 21, so 7+21 = 28.
I wonder if this means I have -1 IOL for CH A?


----------



## propsandmayhem

Ichirou said:


> Woah, how'd you pull that off? What are your RTL/IOL settings in full? Now I feel like experimenting lol
> Also, don't set tWTR_S to 1, it makes latency unstable compared to 2.
> 
> I assume it's because the IOL Offset is set to 28, which means 0+28 = 28, while most people tend to set a manual IOL of 7 and leave Offset at 21, so 7+21 = 28.
> I wonder if this means I have -1 IOL for CH A?


You could also use different offsets for each channel, as long as your IOLs remain +-1 of each other and RTLS within 2 of each other. 









Though the important part is lowing the RTL values which results in the greatest gain vs just changing IOLS alone with the same rtls. For 4200c16 I can do 61 63, which originally posts as 67 69 with loose iols (13). If I set the offset to the lowest it can post (15) I get the lowest RTLs possible, if you rebalance the amount taken from the offset and remove that from the IOLs side it remains balanced and will post. I can use the offset 21 to result in 61 63 with 7 iols, increasing offset by 1 means I can lower IOLs by the same which adding +7 reduced my original 7 IOLs (at 21 offset) to 0.

I'll do some testing but initial benchmarks with Aida still showed a 33.9ns latency at 5.0 and 4.7 ring. I just dropped it until it errored or couldn't post which has resulted in most of my timings being floored which the exception of _sg and trrd_l.


----------



## Ichirou

propsandmayhem said:


> You could also use different offsets for each channel, as long as your IOLs remain +-1 of each other and RTLS within 2 of each other.
> 
> 
> Though the important part is lowing the RTL values which results in the greatest gain vs just changing IOLS alone with the same rtls. For 4200c16 I can do 61 63, which originally posts as 67 69 with loose iols (13). If I set the offset to the lowest it can post (15) I get the lowest RTLs possible, if you rebalance the amount taken from the offset and remove that from the IOLs side it remains balanced and will post. I can use the offset 21 to result in 61 63 with 7 iols, increasing offset by 1 means I can lower IOLs by the same which adding +7 reduced my original 7 IOLs (at 21 offset) to 0.
> 
> I'll do some testing but initial benchmarks with Aida still showed a 33.9ns latency at 5.0 and 4.7 ring. I just dropped it until it errored or couldn't post which has resulted in most of my timings being floored which the exception of _sg and trrd_l.


Ah, I see what you did. You just set the IOLs to 0, and boosted the Offsets for each channel as much as possible. In my case, I'm able to do IOL 6 on CH A, so that adds up to 27 instead of 28, lol. Not sure how that works out. I'll see whether I can increase the offset from what I have now, but theoretically it shouldn't budge. Have you played around with the RFR Delay to see what it does?

AIDA64 is flawed in that it almost always gives good results for the first few tests, and then tests after 5-10 minutes. Everything else in between seems to be a huge mess. You gotta do at least like 10-20 tests to be sure of a change. In my case, between tWTR_S at 1 and 2, the absolute lowest latency from a golden test was the same, but 1 was a lot more unstable.


----------



## munternet

Jalindee said:


> Hello. I have the following configuration: Gigabyte Z490 Gaming X, I7 10700K, Patriot Viper 4 Blackout 2x8 4400MHz. Ram stable works at 3900 mhz with timings of 18-18-18. Unfortunately, at frequency above 3900 there is an unstable work, errors in Testmem5 anta777 extreme, tried different voltages, timings. It seems to be tuning further useless. Built-in XMP profiles for 4400 and 4266 MHz are unstable. I need a stable RAM work at 4400 MHz, what is the combination of motherboard and RAM will provide 100% stable work at 4400 MHz? I suspect that in my case the motherboard is in fault, not RAM.


You should be able to get higher with that hardware if you tune it completely manually 
If you have been using XMP you might have to clear cmos before starting a manual overclock
Did you install the latest bios?
Can you post as shot of Asrock Timing Configurator 4.0.3 along with the voltages?
Maybe do a rig builder in your signature
You might be right about the board but 4000c16 with 2x8 shouldn't be that hard to hit with Z490

Most of the higher end boards will do 4400 stable consistently with 2x8GB G.Skill 3600-16-16-16-36 sticks and better. Even the 3200-14-14-14 sticks.
I like the Asus bios and build but some like MSI and EVGA etc
Apex XII is fairly easy and might be available cheaper as the new gen boards release soon

I also have an Asus Strix Z490-H with a i3 10100 running 2x16GB 3600c16 sticks at 4000-16-16-16-36 1.25 sa/io which was the first settings I tried


----------



## propsandmayhem

munternet said:


> Maybe do a rig builder in your signature


Oh dear I feel terribly noobish but how does one create a signature/rig builder. I am simply overtired and cannot for the life of me find it on this new layout.

EDIT: I have found the account settings! thank you for bearing with my blonde moment. lol


----------



## Ichirou

GIGABYTE has been known to kind of suck, so I wouldn't be surprised if that itself is the sole reason why 4,400 MHz can't be reached. Maybe try different BIOSes out.


----------



## munternet

SgtRotty said:


> View attachment 2472739
> 
> i test backwards from most people. i setup my settings then play battlefieldV. after i stopped crashing to desktop for months, i tested with testmem5. xtremeanta777 config. and 1usmus v3. i dont know how long is acceptable but its fine for me! thanks @KedarWolf . My daily runner


Is that a modified extremeanta77 and 1usmus combined? It looks different to mine
A quick GSAT, even 5 minutes, will usually tell you if the system is going to corrupt


----------



## SgtRotty

munternet said:


> Is that a modified extremeanta77 and 1usmus combined? It looks different to mine
> A quick GSAT, even 5 minutes, will usually tell you if the system is going to corrupt


I ran them separate. About 1 hour 30min each


----------



## munternet

SgtRotty said:


> I ran them separate. About 1 hour 30min each


OK. Mine looks a little different...


----------



## SgtRotty

munternet said:


> OK. Mine looks a little different...
> View attachment 2472859


i might not have the right config then. i dont know. i downloaded mine from this thread.








Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs


Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app




www.overclock.net





i had to change the author name so it showed up correctly what i was running. it is possible im not running something right.


----------



## KedarWolf

SgtRotty said:


> i might not have the right config then. i dont know. i downloaded mine from this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i had to change the author name so it showed up correctly what i was running. it is possible im not running something right.


30.2 KB file on MEGA Change language in .cfg from 1 to 0 for English.


----------



## munternet

SgtRotty said:


> i might not have the right config then. i dont know. i downloaded mine from this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i had to change the author name so it showed up correctly what i was running. it is possible im not running something right.


On the bottom right of TM5 it says "load config and exit" where you can select the config file required and it does the rest for you

Note: I have edited the thread to make it less confusing 



Hequaqua said:


> You really don't have to put them in a separate file or rename them.
> 
> If you start it and choose the one you want to run...it will run. If you want to run a different one, go back into the bin folder and delete the MT file, and the cfg link file. You can then start it and choose whatever test you want to run. Remember: Start in Admin then choose load config and restart to run the test you want.
> 
> I've changed the language to English on all of these if you want to save some time.
> 
> TestMem5 v0.12 (best configs)English


Great idea  
I edited the download .config files to English and set the default to [email protected] when you click TM5.exe out of the gate
Also added simpler instructions for changing config files


----------



## Hequaqua

You really don't have to put them in a separate file or rename them.

If you start it and choose the one you want to run...it will run. If you want to run a different one, go back into the bin folder and delete the MT file, and the cfg link file. You can then start it and choose whatever test you want to run. Remember: Start in Admin then choose load config and restart to run the test you want. 

I've changed the language to English on all of these if you want to save some time.

TestMem5 v0.12 (best configs)English


----------



## Imprezzion

propsandmayhem said:


> You could also use different offsets for each channel, as long as your IOLs remain +-1 of each other and RTLS within 2 of each other.


That's what I have to do as well. I have to run 26/28 offset for it to run proper IOL. On 26/26 it runs 6-8 and not 6 6 which is what I wanted. Works fine hehe.


----------



## propsandmayhem

I'm a pretty big advocate for OCCT, between its memtest and updated CPU test (Large avx2), its the complete testing tool that I need for stability.


----------



## Ichirou

@propsandmayhem I wonder; do you need to set the IOLs to 0 in order for the Offset to work, or can you use both? For example, you set IOL 0-0 and then the offsets to 28-28. Would something like 2-2 and 26-26 do the same thing?

I'm curious, because the default offset is 21-21, and my IOLs are currently set to 6-7. This adds up to 27-28 instead of 28-28, which makes me wonder how the BIOS actually calculates the final IOL values. Perhaps I just need to experiment myself to see, but I'm still doing an uptime stability test, so I haven't had a chance to restart yet.

Have you fiddled around with the RFR Delay?


----------



## propsandmayhem

Ichirou said:


> @propsandmayhem I wonder; do you need to set the IOLs to 0 in order for the Offset to work, or can you use both? For example, you set IOL 0-0 and then the offsets to 28-28. Would something like 2-2 and 26-26 do the same thing?
> 
> I'm curious, because the default offset is 21-21, and my IOLs are currently set to 6-7. This adds up to 27-28 instead of 28-28, which makes me wonder how the BIOS actually calculates the final IOL values. Perhaps I just need to experiment myself to see, but I'm still doing an uptime stability test, so I haven't had a chance to restart yet.
> 
> Have you fiddled around with the RFR Delay?


I think what you want to focus on is what is the lowest rtl values that can be trained using which combination. Dropping IOLs without dropping RTLs won't net you any performance gain (that I have tested and you can see for yourself here)

you may have to judge and test each out but based on what I tested, the offset exists so that you can adjust IOLs back within +-1 of each other while the important part is the balance between IOLs and RTLs. I found what really helped me was to find different values for the frequency/cas range, there is what your motherboard will train vs what it can run stable. The maximus boards have a few extra tricks like maximus tweak mode and trace centering which can change the behavior of how those train.

Since you have a prime you will have to work with those values given and learn the relationship between them, its a bit complicated and I wish I was better at explaining it. I also have a strix mobo, a z270 which would be very similar to what you are working with right now on the prime, I will try some testing on it and get back to you with what I find.

As for RFR Delay, I have played with it but without much success. The resources I have read state that RFR can be used similar to offset to tighten your rtl/iols, I have yet to or to see it used effectively or even at all without a non-post.


----------



## Ichirou

propsandmayhem said:


> I think what you want to focus on is what is the lowest rtl values that can be trained using which combination. Dropping IOLs without dropping RTLs won't net you any performance gain (that I have tested and you can see for yourself here)
> 
> you may have to judge and test each out but based on what I tested, the offset exists so that you can adjust IOLs back within +-1 of each other while the important part is the balance between IOLs and RTLs. I found what really helped me was to find different values for the frequency/cas range, there is what your motherboard will train vs what it can run stable. The maximus boards have a few extra tricks like maximus tweak mode and trace centering which can change the behavior of how those train.
> 
> Since you have a prime you will have to work with those values given and learn the relationship between them, its a bit complicated and I wish I was better at explaining it. I also have a strix mobo, a z270 which would be very similar to what you are working with right now on the prime, I will try some testing on it and get back to you with what I find.
> 
> As for RFR Delay, I have played with it but without much success. The resources I have read state that RFR can be used similar to offset to tighten your rtl/iols, I have yet to or to see it used effectively or even at all without a non-post.


Ah, you probably haven't seen my readout yet. Posted it a few times but it's probably buried a few pages back by now. Here:








(I already have my kit tightened as much (and as practical) as possible. tWR at 10 actually added 0.1ns in latency, so I lifted it back up to 12. tRRD_S down to 1 made it worse, so it's at 3. And tWTR_S is as I said. I could set tWRRD_dd down to 0, but it only made things worse. Since I have Micron, tRFC naturally sucks, and I've already balanced it out with tREFI for best heat-performance ratio.)

The RTL/IOL is already the best I could set via manual. Offsets are the default 21-21 and Delay is the default 14-14 (I haven't touched them yet). The reason why I asked was because I'm wondering if I could squeeze the IOLs any further via the offsets. If I wanted to drop them further, would I increase or decrease the offsets? Or do I set the IOLs to 0 and test an offset of like, 30-29? (And I guess I'll have to test out the RFR Delay myself.)


----------



## propsandmayhem

Ichirou said:


> Ah, you probably haven't seen my readout yet. Posted it a few times but it's probably buried a few pages back by now. Here:
> View attachment 2472891
> 
> (I already have my kit tightened as much (and as practical) as possible. tWR at 10 actually added 0.1ns in latency, so I lifted it back up to 12. tRRD_S down to 1 made it worse, so it's at 3. And tWTR_S is as I said. I could set tWRRD_dd down to 0, but it only made things worse. Since I have Micron, tRFC naturally sucks, and I've already balanced it out with tREFI for best heat-performance ratio.)
> 
> The RTL/IOL is already the best I could set via manual. Offsets are just the default 21-21, and Delay is the default 14-14. The reason why I asked was because I'm wondering if I could squeeze the IOLs any further. If I wanted to drop them further, would I increase or decrease the offsets? Or do I set the IOLs to 0 and test an offset of like, 30-29?


You could try just increasing offset by 1, step by step and increment your IOLS each time. Example you are at 60 60 6 7 21 21. You could increase both offsets by +1 lowering each IOL by one until it doesn't post anymore. 

So try 60 60 5 6 22 22 and then 23 with 4 and 6 iols and continue that on. You'll eventually get to a point where you can't lower the smaller of the two IOLs and you will have one offset known, you may still be able to increase the offset tied to the larger IOL and increment it by one more in addition, so you may end up with 60 60 1 2 26 26 and find that the IOL set to one can't be lowered, then the next step would be to try 26 27 as your final offset with 60 60 1 1 26 27. 

You might be able to do one more round of increments to make that 0 but that will be up to your board and its behavior.


----------



## Ichirou

propsandmayhem said:


> You could try just increasing offset by 1, step by step and increment your IOLS each time. Example you are at 60 60 6 7 21 21. You could increase both offsets by +1 lowering each IOL by one until it doesn't post anymore.
> 
> So try 60 60 5 6 22 22 and then 23 with 4 and 6 iols and continue that on. You'll eventually get to a point where you can't lower the smaller of the two IOLs and you will have one offset known, you may still be able to increase the offset tied to the larger IOL and increment it by one more in addition, so you may end up with 60 60 1 2 26 26 and find that the IOL set to one can't be lowered, then the next step would be to try 26 27 as your final offset with 60 60 1 1 26 27.
> 
> You might be able to do one more round of increments to make that 0 but that will be up to your board and its behavior.


So the idea is, with my RTLs as-is, my finite IOL value adds up to 6+21 = 27 and 7+21 = 28, and basically any change I make must equate to those values? Would there even be a performance difference then?

What I was wondering was more about whether I could break the formula and tighten further beyond those values. I.E. If Offsets are left as 21, could I reduce the IOLs standalone? Something like RTL kept at 60-all and the IOLs at 6-6 or 5-6, etc. instead of 6-7.


----------



## munternet

Ichirou said:


> Ah, you probably haven't seen my readout yet. Posted it a few times but it's probably buried a few pages back by now. Here:
> View attachment 2472891
> 
> (I already have my kit tightened as much (and as practical) as possible. tWR at 10 actually added 0.1ns in latency, so I lifted it back up to 12. tRRD_S down to 1 made it worse, so it's at 3. And tWTR_S is as I said. I could set tWRRD_dd down to 0, but it only made things worse. Since I have Micron, tRFC naturally sucks, and I've already balanced it out with tREFI for best heat-performance ratio.)
> 
> The RTL/IOL is already the best I could set via manual. Offsets are the default 21-21 and Delay is the default 14-14 (I haven't touched them yet). The reason why I asked was because I'm wondering if I could squeeze the IOLs any further via the offsets. If I wanted to drop them further, would I increase or decrease the offsets? Or do I set the IOLs to 0 and test an offset of like, 30-29? (And I guess I'll have to test out the RFR Delay myself.)


I did a little testing a while back with tWR settings on B-Die 2*8GB








*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Also tested on this rig using a known stable ram configuration already posted. 5 cycles in 20min? Seems like a short test. I still recommend GSAT on blue or red rigs. I mean, it is used to validate huge server farms, not just google's farm sites.




www.overclock.net




I will be interested to see how you get on with RTLs and offsets etc because last time I brought up the subject I was more or less told I was wasting my time


----------



## propsandmayhem

Ichirou said:


> So the idea is, with my RTLs as-is, my finite IOL value adds up to 6+21 = 27 and 7+21 = 28, and basically any change I make must equate to those values? Would there even be a performance difference then?
> 
> What I was wondering was more about whether I could break the formula and tighten further beyond those values. I.E. If Offsets are left as 21, could I reduce the IOLs standalone? Something like RTL kept at 60-all and the IOLs at 6-6 or 5-6, etc. instead of 6-7.



I don't believe you can break from the formula or at least the values needed on each side, for mine IOLs and offset they both equal to 28 since my board can train the same IOLs, other frequencies, mainly I have found more the odd frequency bands like 4100/4133 and 4266 train lopsided IOLs. This in itself doesn't mean that frequency is unstable or bad to use, your motherboard just needed to stretch the delay (IOLs) in order for those RTLs to train. 

If you want to fix it or make it look neater/have IOLs the same then using the offset is exactly what you would want to do. Just increasing the one offset associated with the larger IOL should allow you to put 60 60 6 6 21 22. Performance won't be any different because your equation still equals offset + IOL which in your case is always 27 and 28. 

The performance comes from dropping your RTLs in conjunction with keeping IOLs as low as possible.

I have found a couple ways to do this, easiest and fastest and one I have seen recommended already in this forum is to use the offset 15. What this will do is train the lowest RTL possible at the expense of really loose IOLs (13/14 or your original IOL +6, this is important for the next method so remember +6). What I like about this method is its a no nonsense way of checking the lowest trainable RTL. Sometimes you can even go lower than 15 and use an offset of 14 but this is less common.

Next is a less effective way and only useable if you have the setting RTL Init. This value can be set based on what freq and cas you are at. Example I would use 65 for cas 15 and 67 for cas 16, this number goes up or down depending on cas. Tightening this value can prevent looser RTL/IOL values but depends on your motherboards behavior, maximus boards have some extra settings to help here so this one might not be for you, the next one will be.

Finally and one of my favorite is manually setting these values, remember that +6 I mentioned before, that's where this comes into place, when your board first trains a certain frequency it probably had really loose rtls and iols at first which you dropped down to 60 60 and 6 7. Likely the IOLs were 13 14 initially with your RTLs possibly being higher, you reduced each side by taking away the excess delay, that excess delay normally is +6 on each side. 

The way you determined this was in the first method by setting the lowest postable offset, likely 15 and noted what the RTLs and IOLs were. Since you took 6 away from the offset, your IOLs increased by that amount but your RTLs dropped by 6 as well. 

Now comes the fun part of balancing the equation back out so that the lowest IOLs are used which means the lowest RTLs should be in place as well, that is the balancing act. At 15 offset you would be at 60 RTLs and 13 14 IOLs, setting that +6 back to the side of the offset (27 and 28 remember) you are able to lower IOLs while maintaining the lowest possible RTL value, in your case 60 60 is the lowest your RTLs will go and 6 7 is the lowest your IOLs will go _while your offset is 21_. If you raised the second offset you would have 60 60 6 6 21 22. 

This might be totally confusing at this point but I swear there is a magic to it and with trial and error I think you will be able to understand what your mobo is able to do


----------



## munternet

propsandmayhem said:


> I don't believe you can break from the formula or at least the values needed on each side, for mine IOLs and offset they both equal to 28 since my board can train the same IOLs, other frequencies, mainly I have found more the odd frequency bands like 4100/4133 and 4266 train lopsided IOLs. This in itself doesn't mean that frequency is unstable or bad to use, your motherboard just needed to stretch the delay (IOLs) in order for those RTLs to train.
> 
> If you want to fix it or make it look neater/have IOLs the same then using the offset is exactly what you would want to do. Just increasing the one offset associated with the larger IOL should allow you to put 60 60 6 6 21 22. Performance won't be any different because your equation still equals offset + IOL which in your case is always 27 and 28.
> 
> The performance comes from dropping your RTLs in conjunction with keeping IOLs as low as possible.
> 
> I have found a couple ways to do this, easiest and fastest and one I have seen recommended already in this forum is to use the offset 15. What this will do is train the lowest RTL possible at the expense of really loose IOLs (13/14 or your original IOL +6, this is important for the next method so remember +6). What I like about this method is its a no nonsense way of checking the lowest trainable RTL. Sometimes you can even go lower than 15 and use an offset of 14 but this is less common.
> 
> Next is a less effective way and only useable if you have the setting RTL Init. This value can be set based on what freq and cas you are at. Example I would use 65 for cas 15 and 67 for cas 16, this number goes up or down depending on cas. Tightening this value can prevent looser RTL/IOL values but depends on your motherboards behavior, maximus boards have some extra settings to help here so this one might not be for you, the next one will be.
> 
> Finally and one of my favorite is manually setting these values, remember that +6 I mentioned before, that's where this comes into place, when your board first trains a certain frequency it probably had really loose rtls and iols at first which you dropped down to 60 60 and 6 7. Likely the IOLs were 13 14 initially with your RTLs possibly being higher, you reduced each side by taking away the excess delay, that excess delay normally is +6 on each side.
> 
> The way you determined this was in the first method by setting the lowest postable offset, likely 15 and noted what the RTLs and IOLs were. Since you took 6 away from the offset, your IOLs increased by that amount but your RTLs dropped by 6 as well.
> 
> Now comes the fun part of balancing the equation back out so that the lowest IOLs are used which means the lowest RTLs should be in place as well, that is the balancing act. At 15 offset you would be at 60 RTLs and 13 14 IOLs, setting that +6 back to the side of the offset (27 and 28 remember) you are able to lower IOLs while maintaining the lowest possible RTL value, in your case 60 60 is the lowest your RTLs will go and 6 7 is the lowest your IOLs will go _while your offset is 21_. If you raised the second offset you would have 60 60 6 6 21 22.
> 
> This might be totally confusing at this point but I swear there is a magic to it and with trial and error I think you will be able to understand what your mobo is able to do


So aren't you just re-arranging the furniture in the lounge but there are still effectively the same number of seats? 
I tried running 15 offsets about 5 sets of ram back and didn't notice a lot of difference


----------



## Ichirou

munternet said:


> I did a little testing a while back with tWR settings on B-Die 2*8GB


I tested tWR all the way down to 5 in AIDA64, but it felt like nothing changed (except that it was harder to pass in TM5). Any differences in the scores were basically within the margin of error. The only thing that stuck out was when I went back up to 12, and noticed that the latency dropped by a solid 0.1ns. Tested it several dozen times; same result.


propsandmayhem said:


> Now comes the fun part of balancing the equation back out so that the lowest IOLs are used which means the lowest RTLs should be in place as well, that is the balancing act. At 15 offset you would be at 60 RTLs and 13 14 IOLs, setting that +6 back to the side of the offset (27 and 28 remember) you are able to lower IOLs while maintaining the lowest possible RTL value, in your case 60 60 is the lowest your RTLs will go and 6 7 is the lowest your IOLs will go _while your offset is 21_. If you raised the second offset you would have 60 60 6 6 21 22.
> 
> This might be totally confusing at this point but I swear there is a magic to it and with trial and error I think you will be able to understand what your mobo is able to do


In my case, the lowest I can POST with the PC (with just flat -1 decreases) is 60-60-59-60 and 6-6-6-7. I can't budge any of them any further. However, that one outlier looks kind of iffy, and people say to keep RTLs constant, so I simply raised it back up.

I found that the easiest way to tighten RTL/IOL was to simply do a proper train on Auto, and then drop each pairing by 1, lol. That's how I did it, anyway. However, during "bad" training, sometimes the motherboard would actually make certain RTLs a bit lower than usual on Auto. Hence, it makes me wonder whether I can actually decouple them somehow to tighten them further. Maybe I could set the RTLs back to Auto and then try to force the board to retrain, and roll the dice on that?

What I mean by "bad" training is: If Auto was something like 67-13, sometimes it might get lucky and turn into 66-13. But then it would revert back to 67-13 most of the time.


----------



## propsandmayhem

munternet said:


> So aren't you just re-arranging the furniture in the lounge but there are still effectively the same number of seats?
> I tried running 15 offsets about 5 sets of ram back and didn't notice a lot of difference


I like your analogy here, in your case and his, you've reduced the number of seats to the minimum (RTL) value. You are right, after that you are just rearranging and fundamentally making it look neat, in his case instead of 6 7 iols he wants 6 6. This won't net a performance difference because RTLs aren't changing and he's not adding back extra unneeded seats and he is keeping the distance within what is expected (+2 max between RTLs and +-1 between IOLs)

But if you are in a case where you have extra seats (RTL is higher) then there is a definite performance difference which can equate to several cas values, its a lot of perfomance on the table if your motherboard doesn't train these tight. I have noticed Asus and MSI are very strict and will train the lowest values possible (1dpc boards like the apex will have the lowest rtls) and daisy chain and T top boards will train wider RTLs (+2 vs +1 between RTL values, example yours trained 61 62 whereas my top for the same trained 61 63.) Gigabyte boards on the other hand do not have the controls that other vendors do and as a result less ideal RTLs have to be used.

If you don't want to take my word for it, here is some tests I linked earlier but I have made an edit and I want to you note the RTL values in accordance to the performance numbers, mainly what happens when you have looser RTLs than your board is able to train.


----------



## munternet

propsandmayhem said:


> I like your analogy here, in your case and his, you've reduced the number of seats to the minimum (RTL) value. You are right, after that you are just rearranging and fundamentally making it look neat, in his case instead of 6 7 iols he wants 6 6. This won't net a performance difference because RTLs aren't changing and he's not adding back extra unneeded seats and he is keeping the distance within what is expected (+2 max between RTLs and +-1 between IOLs)
> 
> But if you are in a case where you have extra seats (RTL is higher) then there is a definite performance difference which can equate to several cas values, its a lot of perfomance on the table if your motherboard doesn't train these tight. I have noticed Asus and MSI are very strict and will train the lowest values possible (1dpc boards like the apex will have the lowest rtls) and daisy chain and T top boards will train wider RTLs (+2 vs +1 between RTL values, example yours trained 61 62 whereas my top for the same trained 61 63.) Gigabyte boards on the other hand do not have the controls that other vendors do and as a result less ideal RTLs have to be used.
> 
> If you don't want to take my word for it, here is some tests I linked earlier but I have made an edit and I want to you note the RTL values in accordance to the performance numbers, mainly what happens when you have looser RTLs than your board is able to train.
> View attachment 2472899


Here is an odd one I dug up


----------



## propsandmayhem

munternet said:


> Here is an odd one I dug up
> View attachment 2472910



I actually recall your original 15 offset timings, there was a spreadsheet once upon a time ago with either this or a 4200mts setup. It was a large inspiration for me to understand RTLs since your approach and Oldfatsheep, you both had very close numbers with your 15 offset edging out ahead of his 24 offset (iirc).

I chased 1t for a bit on this mobo but even with trace centering 1t is tough for 4 dimm, highest stable I could get was 3900c15. My kit refuses to do 1t nicely, my older kit was a bit better, seems to be very dependent on the board. I've always been jealous of the apex and gene's capabilities for ram OC.


----------



## 638220

Ichirou said:


> GIGABYTE has been known to kind of suck, so I wouldn't be surprised if that itself is the sole reason why 4,400 MHz can't be reached. Maybe try different BIOSes out.


Blasphemy!  10 out of 10, would read again. I love this board. I'm still open to upgrading to the maximus code xi though if someone can show me 4x8gb c18 flat 4600 with tight subs stable at 1.5v/vdimm and less than 1.4v sa/io on a retail 9900K R0 chip at 4.7ghz on a standard bios in LinX with a 360mm aio.


----------



## Placekicker19

When I got my new kit of 3600 c14, it could do 4600 cl17 tm5 stable with 1.5v . After using them a few hours I started crashing and eventually couldnt even boot into windows. Now my sticks require 1.5 to do 4500 cl17, havnt retested 4600 yet. I guess they had to break in a bit just like a new cpu. Hopefully they dont degrade much more.

One thing I dont like about the dark is, if I set 1.46v dimm in bios, it reads 1.5 in software under load. So the dark either reads voltages higher in monitoring software, or its overvolting.


----------



## Jalindee

munternet said:


> You should be able to get higher with that hardware if you tune it completely manually
> If you have been using XMP you might have to clear cmos before starting a manual overclock
> Did you install the latest bios?
> Can you post as shot of Asrock Timing Configurator 4.0.3 along with the voltages?
> Maybe do a rig builder in your signature
> You might be right about the board but 4000c16 with 2x8 shouldn't be that hard to hit with Z490
> 
> Most of the higher end boards will do 4400 stable consistently with 2x8GB G.Skill 3600-16-16-16-36 sticks and better. Even the 3200-14-14-14 sticks.
> I like the Asus bios and build but some like MSI and EVGA etc
> Apex XII is fairly easy and might be available cheaper as the new gen boards release soon
> 
> I also have an Asus Strix Z490-H with a i3 10100 running 2x16GB 3600c16 sticks at 4000-16-16-16-36 1.25 sa/io which was the first settings I tried


CMOS was reset. The last BIOS F6D is installed. What is Rig Builder? I went google and found Rig Builder from Funky Kit. On the 3900 MHz with CAS less than 18, the computer turns off when starting. 4000 MHz buggy frequency, even more buggy than 4400 MHz: during timings 20-26-26 and RAM 1.5V VCCSA and VCCIO 1.35V when trying to check the Memtest5 computer turns off (on 4400 it turns off much less frequently). At 4400 I tried to raise Cas, on 21 testmem5 still shows errors. Further, I do not see the point.

I enclose screenshots on the XMP profile 4400 MHz.


----------



## propsandmayhem

Asus makes mem OC pretty awesome even on Strix motherboards

4133c18 using 1.35vdimm


----------



## Ichirou

Jalindee said:


> CMOS was reset. The last BIOS F6D is installed. What is Rig Builder? I went google and found Rig Builder from Funky Kit. On the 3900 MHz with CAS less than 18, the computer turns off when starting. 4000 MHz buggy frequency, even more buggy than 4400 MHz: during timings 20-26-26 and RAM 1.5V VCCSA and VCCIO 1.35V when trying to check the Memtest5 computer turns off (on 4400 it turns off much less frequently). At 4400 I tried to raise Cas, on 21 testmem5 still shows errors. Further, I do not see the point.
> 
> I enclose screenshots on the XMP profile 4400 MHz.
> 
> View attachment 2472953
> View attachment 2472954


Ah yes, glorious Micron RAM. Leave VCCSA at 1.20-1.25V max, and set VCCIO to around 1.20-1.25V. Micron hates when VCCIO is too high. Also, I advise you to use test the RAM on stock XMP. I'm pretty sure you'll get errors that way as well, for similar reasons.


----------



## Arctucas

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For most of the boards. Remember there is a "delay" term. The number of "delay" may vary.
> 
> This "delay" is not RFR delay. Most of the time the default "delay" is 10. If you set the RTL manually, the equation might not work.


OK, apparently my delay is either 0 or 1, then? All RTL/IOL/offset are AUTO.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Arctucas said:


> OK, apparently my delay is either 0 or 1, then? All RTL/IOL/offset are AUTO.


May also depend on the Maximus Tweak modes. Anyway its just a theoretical equation taking RTL IOL and IOL offset into account.

My current RTL is 61, IOL is 7, and Offset is 21, and Im running CL=16. Use maximus mode 1 and auto RTL will set the RTL to 69. For mode 2 the RTL might be tighter.


----------



## theforcedk

I can't get much better result than this.. ITX love.

ASUS ROG Strix Z490-I Gaming
32G G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTRS (16-16-16-36 stock)





ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-10900K processor.



browser.geekbench.com


----------



## Arctucas

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> May also depend on the Maximus Tweak modes. Anyway its just a theoretical equation taking RTL IOL and IOL offset into account.
> 
> My current RTL is 61, IOL is 7, and Offset is 21, and Im running CL=16. Use maximus mode 1 and auto RTL will set the RTL to 69. For mode 2 the RTL might be tighter.





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> May also depend on the Maximus Tweak modes. Anyway its just a theoretical equation taking RTL IOL and IOL offset into account.
> 
> My current RTL is 61, IOL is 7, and Offset is 21, and Im running CL=16. Use maximus mode 1 and auto RTL will set the RTL to 69. For mode 2 the RTL might be tighter.


"RTL=IOL+IOL offset+2*tCL+delay. This equation is for auto RTL.

RTL initial and IOL initial are for AUTO RTL&IOL iterations.

Haven't really looked into RFR delay. Should be sth related to IOL."

"For most of the boards. Remember there is a "delay" term. The number of "delay" may vary.

This "delay" is not RFR delay. Most of the time the default "delay" is 10. If you set the RTL manually, the equation might not work."

Quoting two of your earlier posts.

Might I presume that these are only true for Asus motherboards then?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Arctucas said:


> "RTL=IOL+IOL offset+2*tCL+delay. This equation is for auto RTL.
> 
> RTL initial and IOL initial are for AUTO RTL&IOL iterations.
> 
> Haven't really looked into RFR delay. Should be sth related to IOL."
> 
> "For most of the boards. Remember there is a "delay" term. The number of "delay" may vary.
> 
> This "delay" is not RFR delay. Most of the time the default "delay" is 10. If you set the RTL manually, the equation might not work."
> 
> Quoting two of your earlier posts.
> 
> Might I presume that these are only true for Asus motherboards then?


Asus MB will adjust the delay according to your actual rig. Some people use this equation to define RTL initials. Don't know other brands much but should be similar.

Similarly, when you set the tRAS, you can set *tRAS* = tCL + tRCD + delay (0/2/4/6), depends on your actual rig.


----------



## 638220

Noob question here regarding loosening timings to hit a higher frequency...
If i loosen trcd/trp by 1, does this mean I should loosen tras by 1 as well?

Also, what is the difference between overclocking with XMP enabled vs. XMP disabled when using the same settings?(manually setting the ram frequency/timings/vccSA/vccIO/Vdimm?). Is it better to manually overclock ram with XMP disabled?


----------



## morph.

Hello Guru's, I've been playing around with ram overclocking last few months and had the chance to play with 3 kits.

GSkill 3466 c16D 2x16
GSkill 3600 c16Q 4x8

Currently trying to tune/tweak:
GSkill 3600 C14D 2x16 (Dual Rank Samsung B-Die)... Been trying to get it stable at 4200c16's but was only able to get some form of stability at 16-17-17... I'm at a bit of a loss about this... But finally managed some form of stability with a quick test...

I'd ultimately really like to be able to run it up to 4400 at the 16's or 17's in the primaries but finding it hard to do so. vDIMM @ 1.5v, vCCIO/SA @ 1.3v

I have an Asus Z490 Maximus XII Formula on the water with a 10850k @ 5.1

I'm after some advice on RTL & IOL stability whats the best values for this configuration? With my previous to kits, I've been sticking with the rule of lucky IOL's of 7 & 61 and 62.
I've been finding it a bit hit at and miss with at such low RTL's from a stability front.

Also would love someone to point me to skews what are some good starting points try for my kit as this is one area I've never really understood or could find anything definitive online.


----------



## Imprezzion

4200 dual rank is quite hit and miss on 16-16-16 for me as well, I did get it stable at 4200 16-17-17-33-280-2T @ 1.55v DRAM 1.35 SA 1.30 IO. I can however get 4400 17-17-17-34-320-2T stable at just 1.46v so skip 4200 all together and go straight for 4400C17.


----------



## morph.

Imprezzion said:


> 4200 dual rank is quite hit and miss on 16-16-16 for me as well, I did get it stable at 4200 16-17-17-33-280-2T @ 1.55v DRAM 1.35 SA 1.30 IO. I can however get 4400 17-17-17-34-320-2T stable at just 1.46v so skip 4200 all together and go straight for 4400C17.


wow, I wouldn't run those voltages as daily 24/7 for your 4200! :O

As a reference point, what are your sub-timings for your 4400 & VCCIO/SA?


----------



## YaqY

morph. said:


> wow, I wouldn't run those voltages as daily 24/7 for your 4200! :O
> 
> As a reference point, what are your sub-timings for your 4400 & VCCIO/SA?


Whats wrong with those voltages?


----------



## 638220

YaqY said:


> Whats wrong with those voltages?


IMO Absolutely nothing.


----------



## SunnyStefan

YaqY said:


> Whats wrong with those voltages?


Those voltages are absolutely fine for 24/7 usage on Z490. I'd argue that even on Z390 those values would be perfectly reasonable as daily settings.


----------



## 638220

[email protected] LinX 20 Loops (XMP Disabled). Now if only I could figure out c16-4400 at the voltages and cache ratio I want to use ><.


----------



## js.brett

Huge help everyone, thanks...


----------



## morph.

SunnyStefan said:


> Those voltages are absolutely fine for 24/7 usage on Z490. I'd argue that even on Z390 those values would be perfectly reasonable as daily settings.


Especially if the dram doesn't have active cooling, I was under the impression 1.55v DRAM 1.35v SA a bit high for daily? Perhaps I've been far too conservative with it as I'm still fairly green with ram ocing whats the safe daily ranges then?

Under the impression, one shouldn't go much past 1.5v on bdie and exceed 1.3v for IO/SA daily etc? From guides, I been reading:









MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com




&








Overclocking Guide for DDR4 RAM


This easy, comprehensive guide illustrated with images is for the overclocking DDR4 using several brands such as Corsair and G.Skill with different...




www.hisevilness.com


----------



## morph.

blacknbigger212 said:


> [email protected] LinX 20 Loops (XMP Disabled). Now if only I could figure out c16-4400 at the voltages and cache ratio I want to use ><.
> View attachment 2473273


being able to run quad sticks past 4200 is already very good haha...


----------



## Asus11

I am back after many years, I wanted to ask the DDR4 peeps, last setup I had was 8700k @ 5ghz with 4000MHz 32gb 2 x 16gb Ram Stable, back in 2017.. here I am.. I am asking has anyone got an intel chip @5GHZ with 5000MHz Ram Stable, Im considering the 10850k with z490i unify itx

any input is appreciated

hope your all doing well!

Thank you!!


----------



## Placekicker19

Setting tRRD-L to 5 or 7 works great, passes tm5, and has good performance. Setting it to 6 causes latency to increase close to 2ns, read and write scores decrease by over 1k each, and I have to increase dimm voltage by 30mv and still got anerror after 15 min. Setting it to 5 is completely stable at way less voltage and performance is where it should be. 

Does tRRD-L sometimes not like a even number setting? I just dont understand how setting it to 5 and 7 is stable and performs good, but setting it to 6 requires much more voltages and performance degrades alot.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Setting tRRD-L to 5 or 7 works great, passes tm5, and has good performance. Setting it to 6 causes latency to increase close to 2ns, read and write scores decrease by over 1k each, and I have to increase dimm voltage by 30mv and still got anerror after 15 min. Setting it to 5 is completely stable at way less voltage and performance is where it should be.
> 
> Does tRRD-L sometimes not like a even number setting? I just dont understand how setting it to 5 and 7 is stable and performs good, but setting it to 6 requires much more voltages and performance degrades alot.


Its better to set it to tFAW/n.


----------



## itssladenlol

Just got my new 4000 c17 trident Z royal dual rank Kit and it does 4666 c16, pretty happy 😁. 
Manufacturing date is August 2020.
Lets See what this Kit can Do under water.


----------



## 638220

itssladenlol said:


> Just got my new 4000 c17 trident Z royal dual rank Kit and it does 4666 c16, pretty happy 😁.
> Manufacturing date is August 2020.
> Lets See what this Kit can Do under water.


Don't forget to pack your scuba gear!


----------



## Ichirou

morph. said:


> Especially if the dram doesn't have active cooling, I was under the impression 1.55v DRAM 1.35v SA a bit high for daily? Perhaps I've been far too conservative with it as I'm still fairly green with ram ocing whats the safe daily ranges then?
> 
> Under the impression, one shouldn't go much past 1.5v on bdie and exceed 1.3v for IO/SA daily etc? From guides, I been reading:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> 
> 
> C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking Guide for DDR4 RAM
> 
> 
> This easy, comprehensive guide illustrated with images is for the overclocking DDR4 using several brands such as Corsair and G.Skill with different...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hisevilness.com


Those guides are kind of outdated. I wouldn't trust them like gospel. They are starting points, at best. Many on Reddit have been riding their RAM kits up to 1.7V daily for months. It all depends on whether the RAM itself is stable, and whether you have the proper cooling for it.

The required SA/IO really depends on whether or not you pass 4,200 MHz or so frequency. Up to that point, you can suffice with under 1.3V on both. Above it, it seems to depend on the CPU/mobo and is a YMMV. The Z490 series is a lot more tolerant than the Z390 series.


Asus11 said:


> I am back after many years, I wanted to ask the DDR4 peeps, last setup I had was 8700k @ 5ghz with 4000MHz 32gb 2 x 16gb Ram Stable, back in 2017.. here I am.. I am asking has anyone got an intel chip @5GHZ with 5000MHz Ram Stable, Im considering the 10850k with z490i unify itx
> 
> any input is appreciated
> 
> hope your all doing well!
> 
> Thank you!!


Some Z490 boards have 5,000 MHz kits on their QVL lists, so it's definitely possible. But I think it depends on whether your CPU itself can run it, and that is a hit or miss.


Placekicker19 said:


> Setting tRRD-L to 5 or 7 works great, passes tm5, and has good performance. Setting it to 6 causes latency to increase close to 2ns, read and write scores decrease by over 1k each, and I have to increase dimm voltage by 30mv and still got anerror after 15 min. Setting it to 5 is completely stable at way less voltage and performance is where it should be.
> 
> Does tRRD-L sometimes not like a even number setting? I just dont understand how setting it to 5 and 7 is stable and performs good, but setting it to 6 requires much more voltages and performance degrades alot.


tRRD_L/S are kind of YMMV. I haven't had any issue setting them to 4/3 (with tFAW at 12). 4 was my lowest bootable value for tRRD_L. I could drop tRRD_S to 1 but it gets a performance penalty similar to yours.


----------



## 638220

[email protected] LinX 20 Loops (XMP Disabled). Bios set 1.5v/Vdimm 1.3v/VccSA-VccIO. Windows incorrectly reports the ram frequency in task manager and aida64 motherboard tab incorrectly reports the busclock as 101 when it is set to 100.70. Getting closer to c16-4400, hopefully it can be done with less sa/io than what c17-4400 requires otherwise i'll probably just stick with c16-4333 for daily use since i'm more comfortable using 1.3v/sa-io as opposed to the 1.38vish/sa-io required for 4400/c17. I don't think CPU-ID is reporting the correct bios version as i'm pretty sure i'm on a different version that uses the same bios interface as F9(thank you to gigabyte support for the bios).


----------



## Gregix

Lads, I know dual sided b-die is hard on z370/390 platform with 8700k/9900k, but, does having APEX change anything in this matter? I mean, going 3900Mhz+ is doable or IMC will restrain it?
I saw Asus Apex in decent price, so just wondering...


----------



## Ichirou

Gregix said:


> Lads, I know dual sided b-die is hard on z370/390 platform with 8700k/9900k, but, does having APEX change anything in this matter? I mean, going 3900Mhz+ is doable or IMC will restrain it?
> I saw Asus Apex in decent price, so just wondering...


Not sure where you got that idea, but most non-garbage boards on the Z370/390 should reach up to 4,100-4,200 MHz just fine, no matter the rank, size or sticks. It is going above that it becomes more of an issue. If you check your board's QVL list, you will have an idea for what your board can achieve.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gregix said:


> Lads, I know dual sided b-die is hard on z370/390 platform with 8700k/9900k, but, does having APEX change anything in this matter? I mean, going 3900Mhz+ is doable or IMC will restrain it?
> I saw Asus Apex in decent price, so just wondering...


Z390I DR BDIE 4400





旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com


----------



## 638220

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Z390I DR BDIE 4400
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验
> 
> 
> 旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.chiphell.com



In general or on average, Are VccSA requirements higher for 2x16gb vs 4x8gb at 4400mhz with bdie on z390?

Also, do you know if chiphell foreigner friendly? am i going to get a bunch of flack if I post there in english?

EDIT: nvm chiphell wants overseas phone numbers in order to post on their forum ><. And damn, he needed 1.5v SA for 4x8gb 4400.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

blacknbigger212 said:


> In general or on average, Are VccSA requirements higher for 2x16gb vs 4x8gb at 4400mhz with bdie on z390?
> 
> Also, do you know if chiphell foreigner friendly? am i going to get a bunch of flack if I post there in english?
> 
> EDIT: nvm chiphell wants overseas phone numbers in order to post on their forum ><.


Although there were seldom eng posts, eng should be OK.

IMO 2*DR and 4*SR require similar IO&SA. If you do some little tweaks on DLLBwEn, it should reduce the required IO&SA a lot.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If you do some little tweaks on DLLBwEn, it should reduce the required IO&SA a lot.


I left that on Auto since no matter what I changed it to, it didn't really seem to affect much.
There was one instance where I could boot CL14 on my kit by messing around with some low value (1-3), but I BSOD'd right at the login screen, and it felt like my PC was melting afterwards, lol.


----------



## 638220

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Although there were seldom eng posts, eng should be OK.
> 
> IMO 2*DR and 4*SR require similar IO&SA. If you do some little tweaks on DLLBwEn, it should reduce the required IO&SA a lot.


Gotcha. Don't have DLLBwEn in my bios unfortunately, no biggie though. i'm curious to find out whether or not 4x8gb 16-16-16-34 or 16-17-17-36 at 4400 can be done on these dimms with bios set 1.5v/vdimm and 1.3v SA/IO with 4.8ghz cores/4.4ghz cache or 4.7ghz cores/4.4ghz cache. will probably give it a shot tomorrow, eye lids are starting to get heavy.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> I left that on Auto since no matter what I changed it to, it didn't really seem to affect much.
> There was one instance where I could boot CL14 on my kit by messing around with some low value (1-3), but I BSOD'd right at the login screen, and it felt like my PC was melting afterwards, lol.


SB reported "2" to be a good number for z390, and "4" for Z370.

On my M12A, when OCing DR, the best number for my rig is "1". It decreases the IO&SA by about 0.05~0.1V.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> SB reported "2" to be a good number for z390, and "4" for Z370.
> 
> On my M12A, when OCing DR, the best number for my rig is "1". It decreases the IO&SA by about 0.05~0.1V.


Is there any sort of documentation about what it exactly does? I think it has something to do with LN2, but that's as far as my rudimentary Google search goes.
Does it make a particular timing change easier to pull off, or does it strictly reduce the SA/IO requirement?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Is there any sort of documentation about what it exactly does? I think it has something to do with LN2, but that's as far as my rudimentary Google search goes.
> Does it make a particular timing change easier to pull off, or does it strictly reduce the SA/IO requirement?


here








DLL/PLL on a DRAM


As CPU speeds continue to increase, memory performance becomes more of a limiting factor in system performance. For system performance to increase, memory




www.rambus.com







http://cmosedu.com/videos/s17/ecg721/DLL_Design_SDRAM.pdf



DLLBwEn controls the bandwidth of DLL, maybe smaller number means less bandwidth, and less pressure on the IMC.


----------



## 638220

YO what is going on with ram prices? Last month a lot of gskill bins were 30%-50% cheaper. Same with teamgroup bins, c18/4133 was 90 bucks in december, now its 130 lol.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DLL/PLL on a DRAM
> 
> 
> As CPU speeds continue to increase, memory performance becomes more of a limiting factor in system performance. For system performance to increase, memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rambus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cmosedu.com/videos/s17/ecg721/DLL_Design_SDRAM.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> DLLBwEn controls the bandwidth of DLL, maybe smaller number means less bandwidth, and less pressure on the IMC.


So in theory, I should try for as low of a DLLBWEN as possible (i.e. 1), and also try to tighten SA/IO further?
If only my ASUS BIOS could indicate what the Auto value goes to, that would help so much, lol.


----------



## morph.

Ichirou said:


> Those guides are kind of outdated. I wouldn't trust them like gospel. They are starting points, at best. Many on Reddit have been riding their RAM kits up to 1.7V daily for months. It all depends on whether the RAM itself is stable, and whether you have the proper cooling for it.
> 
> The required SA/IO really depends on whether or not you pass 4,200 MHz or so frequency. Up to that point, you can suffice with under 1.3V on both. Above it, it seems to depend on the CPU/mobo and is a YMMV. The Z490 series is a lot more tolerant than the Z390 series.


So what are the safe 24x7 daily voltage ranges for say a decent Z490 board like a Maximus XII Formula & not having active cooling around the memory?


----------



## Gregix

Ichirou said:


> Not sure where you got that idea, but most non-garbage boards on the Z370/390 should reach up to 4,100-4,200 MHz just fine, no matter the rank, size or sticks. It is going above that it becomes more of an issue. If you check your board's QVL list, you will have an idea for what your board can achieve.


Well, somewhere earlier in this thread was info about 8x00/9x00 series struggling with DR b-die after 3800Mhz. Which is true in my case, can't run my g.skill 2x16Gb at 3866Mhz even(c15/16/17/18), while 3800c14 is ok. My MB just wont boot with anything above. And I had some Corsairs that was good with 4200c17, then patriots 4100c15, but SR, 2x8Gb. Must update my profile.


----------



## Betroz

morph. said:


> So what are the safe 24x7 daily voltage ranges for say a decent Z490 board like a Maximus XII Formula & not having active cooling around the memory?


With no fan on the memory, I would stop at 1.45 VDIMM. Maybe 1.5v if you have good airflow in your case, and a big tower cooler on the CPU that draws air over the RAM.


----------



## Imprezzion

morph. said:


> wow, I wouldn't run those voltages as daily 24/7 for your 4200! :O
> 
> As a reference point, what are your sub-timings for your 4400 & VCCIO/SA?


1.365v SA 1.335v IO, 1,460v DRAM.
tWR 16, tCWL 16, tREFI maxed, tRRD_L and S 6/4 with 16 tFAW, tCKE2, tRTP 8, PPD 0 / power saving disabled.

Give me like 10 minutes I'll upload a AsRock Timing screenshot.

Memory is actively cooled with a 140mm fan aimed right at them, never go above 40c on 1.46v and barely hit 44c on 1.60v.

CPU is also water-cooled @ 5.2Ghz all core 1.364v VCC Sense voltage and at above IO/SA values. Even Prime95 AVX + FMA3 is doable. About 92-93c hottest core 96c package after 1 hour. That is high but also worst-case and still technically within TJ Max of 99c. Normal loads never see above 70c.


----------



## Ichirou

Gregix said:


> Well, somewhere earlier in this thread was info about 8x00/9x00 series struggling with DR b-die after 3800Mhz. Which is true in my case, can't run my g.skill 2x16Gb at 3866Mhz even(c15/16/17/18), while 3800c14 is ok. My MB just wont boot with anything above. And I had some Corsairs that was good with 4200c17, then patriots 4100c15, but SR, 2x8Gb. Must update my profile.


Sounds more like a hit-or-miss with the CPU/mobo you have moreso than the RAM or motherboard generation. There are good/bad bins of CPUs with IMCs that handle RAM overclocks better/worse. If your board's QVL list has some DR kits above 4,000 MHz, then it's likely a CPU issue.


----------



## Imprezzion

morph. said:


> wow, I wouldn't run those voltages as daily 24/7 for your 4200! :O
> 
> As a reference point, what are your sub-timings for your 4400 & VCCIO/SA?


So yeah, basically this. 1.365v SA 1.335v IO, 1,460v DRAM.










Anything I can improve on guys? No, it won't do CAS 16 at any reasonable voltage so far, and no it also can't do a higher frequency without pushing SA above 1.4v (It passes 4533C18 TM5 but needs 1.45v SA to do it)


----------



## SunnyStefan

Imprezzion said:


> Anything I can improve on guys? No, it won't do CAS 16 at any reasonable voltage so far, and no it also can't do a higher frequency without pushing SA above 1.4v (It passes 4533C18 TM5 but needs 1.45v SA to do it)


tRDWR_xx at 15 seems a little loose, have you tried tightening it? If 14 14 14 14 doesn't work, give 14 14 15 15 a shot.


----------



## 638220

Imprezzion said:


> So yeah, basically this. 1.365v SA 1.335v IO, 1,460v DRAM.
> 
> View attachment 2473510
> 
> 
> Anything I can improve on guys? No, it won't do CAS 16 at any reasonable voltage so far, and no it also can't do a higher frequency without pushing SA above 1.4v (It passes 4533C18 TM5 but needs 1.45v SA to do it)


See if you can do tCWL=14 - Some 2x16gb/4x8gb can do tcwl=tcl minus 3 for daily for better latency. If you do try tcwl 14, make sure tWRRD_SG/DG are on auto when you train with tWTR_L/S set, or vice versa. As long as either twrrd_sg/DG OR tWTR_L/S with the other on auto should be fine for tcwl training since it will adjust the other value by 2 as well as twrpre by 2.
You can also try 6/12 or 7/14 for tRTP/tWR. I would try this if tcwl 14 doesn't stick.
tRDRD_DR can usually go down to 5 on 2x16gb/4x8gb - provides a boost to read/copy bandwidth.
tRDRD_SG can usually go down to 7, sometimes 6 on 2x16gb/4x8gb - Also improves read/copy bandwidth.
tWRWR_SG can usually go down to 7, sometimes 6 on 2x16gb/4x8GB - I _think_ this improves write bandwidth >.>
tWRRD_DR/DD can sometimes do 6 on 2x16gb/4x8GB - This improves some sort of bandwidth >.>
All 4 tRDWR can go as low as 10 on 2x16GB/4x8GB but is harder to keep stable the lower you go, may require more vcore than normal?(not sure). Test these 4 timings specifically in games to see the FPS impact as well.

If there is anything I forgot that anyone here noticed or something wrong with the suggestions, please chime in.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> So in theory, I should try for as low of a DLLBWEN as possible (i.e. 1), and also try to tighten SA/IO further?
> If only my ASUS BIOS could indicate what the Auto value goes to, that would help so much, lol.


It also depends on the rig. Can try 1~4 to find the sweet point.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

blacknbigger212 said:


> YO what is going on with ram prices? Last month a lot of gskill bins were 30%-50% cheaper. Same with teamgroup bins, c18/4133 was 90 bucks in december, now its 130 lol.


Christmas+Lunar new year.


----------



## Placekicker19

O t


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Its better to set it to tFAW/n.


I know tRRD_S is set at tFAW/4, but how is tRRD_L set off tFAW? Ive seen people run tRRD_L down to 4. Ive tested many things and setting tRRD_L to 6 tanks performance and isnt stable unless adding alot of dimm voltage. Setting it to 7 has 1k higher read and write and 1.5ns better latency than 6. Setting it to 5 improves scores further and is stable at same voltage as 7. 

Maybe the ram just doesn't like tRRD_L set to 6 when at, or higher than 4500mhz.


----------



## 638220

Placekicker19 said:


> O t
> 
> I know tRRD_S is set at tFAW/4, but how is tRRD_L set off tFAW? Ive seen people run tRRD_L down to 4. Ive tested many things and setting tRRD_L to 6 tanks performance and isnt stable unless adding alot of dimm voltage. Setting it to 7 has 1k higher read and write and 1.5ns better latency than 6. Setting it to 5 improves scores further and is stable at same voltage as 7.
> 
> Maybe the ram just doesn't like tRRD_L set to 6 when at, or higher than 4500mhz.


I run my trrd_s and trrd_l both at 4 with [email protected] on 4x8gb. Performance kept getting better as I kept lowering trrd_l down all the way to 4. I didn't notice any latency differences. Are you working with 2x8gb, 2x16gb, 4x8gb or 4x16gb z390 or z490?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> O t
> 
> I know tRRD_S is set at tFAW/4, but how is tRRD_L set off tFAW? Ive seen people run tRRD_L down to 4. Ive tested many things and setting tRRD_L to 6 tanks performance and isnt stable unless adding alot of dimm voltage. Setting it to 7 has 1k higher read and write and 1.5ns better latency than 6. Setting it to 5 improves scores further and is stable at same voltage as 7.
> 
> Maybe the ram just doesn't like tRRD_L set to 6 when at, or higher than 4500mhz.


@*Placekicker19*
tRRD_S and tRRD_L are basically the same things for issuing active commands, except the bank groups. Within the same group, L, between different groups, S.

"tFAW specifies a window within which only four activate commands can be issued. So, you can issue ACTIVATE commands back-to-back with tRRD_S between them"

So tRRD_L is also better to be tFAW/4 if it is stable. Theoretically, the lower the better performance.


----------



## Placekicker19

blacknbigger212 said:


> I run my trrd_s and trrd_l both at 4 with [email protected] on 4x8gb. Performance kept getting better as I kept lowering trrd_l down all the way to 4. I didn't notice any latency differences. Are you working with 2x8gb, 2x16gb, 4x8gb or 4x16gb z390 or z490?


2x8 z490. I'll try 4 tomorrow to see if its stable. I dont know why, when setting it to 6 my system becomes super unstable. It will bsod on boot up when set to 6, if i use the same voltage thats stable for 5 or 7. Setting it to 6 requires 30mv on dimm just to boot.


----------



## Placekicker19

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> @*Placekicker19*
> tRRD_S and tRRD_L are basically the same things for issuing active commands, except the bank groups. Within the same group, L, between different groups, S.
> 
> "tFAW specifies a window within which only four activate commands can be issued. So, you can issue ACTIVATE commands back-to-back with tRRD_S between them"
> 
> So tRRD_L is also better to be tFAW/4 if it is stable. Theoretically, the lower the better performance.


Ok so 4 is the minimum you can go on tRRD_L . Since 5 is stable I'll go ahead and try 4 tomorrow. If 4 isn't stable should I, stay at 5, or go back up to 7 or 8? My tFAW is at 16 and tRRD_S is at 4.


----------



## Ichirou

Placekicker19 said:


> Ok so 4 is the minimum you can go on tRRD_L . Since 5 is stable I'll go ahead and try 4 tomorrow. If 4 isn't stable should I, stay at 5, or go back up to 7 or 8? My tFAW is at 16 and tRRD_S is at 4.


Just test and go with whichever value gives you the best AIDA64 performance lol. No two kits are the same.


----------



## 638220

Placekicker19 said:


> Ok so 4 is the minimum you can go on tRRD_L . Since 5 is stable I'll go ahead and try 4 tomorrow. If 4 isn't stable should I, stay at 5, or go back up to 7 or 8? My tFAW is at 16 and tRRD_S is at 4.


My recommendation is to go with whatever value(s) that give you the best performance at whatever voltage you are comfortable using daily. From what you said earlier, it sounds like 7 or 5 was pretty good because you had better latency. Did you run a series of aida64 benchies with trrd_l set to different values to make sure the latency improvement wasn't a fluke and that you may possibly get the same latency with [email protected]?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Placekicker19 said:


> Ok so 4 is the minimum you can go on tRRD_L . Since 5 is stable I'll go ahead and try 4 tomorrow. If 4 isn't stable should I, stay at 5, or go back up to 7 or 8? My tFAW is at 16 and tRRD_S is at 4.


If 4 doesn't work, I suggest stay as low as possible if is stable. 5 should be good.


----------



## Placekicker19

blacknbigger212 said:


> My recommendation is to go with whatever value(s) that give you the best performance at whatever voltage you are comfortable using daily. From what you said earlier, it sounds like 7 or 5 was pretty good because you had better latency. Did you run a series of aida64 benchies with trrd_l set to different values to make sure the latency improvement wasn't a fluke and that you may possibly get the same latency with [email protected]?


Yeah I always run aida64 multiple times. Ill try tRRD_ L set to 4 and see it improves anything. If not I'll just go back to 5 or 7 . I just wanted to confirm using a odd value there wouldn't cause issues, since tFAW is 16 and tRRD_S is 4 and they are all linked together.


----------



## 638220

I just ran LinX again with 4333. 40 loops this time. roughly 1 hour mark was the end of loop 35. Wrong residual on loop 36 and loop 39 but both residuals still had -09 at the end like the other residuals that matched. 38/40. Test stated it finished with no errors though. Prognosis? Do i lower trefi to 32768 or leave trefi alone and raise trfc a little bit instead? or do i leave the timings alone and add 10mv vcore? or should I just say screw it and leave it be since 1 hour would have been 35 loops anyway? Please let me know your opinions/feedback, cheers. Tired, gonna sleep, will be up before noon tomorrow and check back.


----------



## Ichirou

Placekicker19 said:


> Yeah I always run aida64 multiple times. Ill try tRRD_ L set to 4 and see it improves anything. If not I'll just go back to 5 or 7 . I just wanted to confirm using a odd value there wouldn't cause issues, since tFAW is 16 and tRRD_S is 4 and they are all linked together.


If it's stable and the performance is faster and also consistent, I don't see why there would be an issue.


----------



## morph.

Betroz said:


> With no fan on the memory, I would stop at 1.45 VDIMM. Maybe 1.5v if you have good airflow in your case, and a big tower cooler on the CPU that draws air over the RAM.





Imprezzion said:


> So yeah, basically this. 1.365v SA 1.335v IO, 1,460v DRAM.
> 
> View attachment 2473510
> 
> 
> Anything I can improve on guys? No, it won't do CAS 16 at any reasonable voltage so far, and no it also can't do a higher frequency without pushing SA above 1.4v (It passes 4533C18 TM5 but needs 1.45v SA to do it)


Yeah, I have a custom loop but no direct fan facing the memory really but fans surrounding it PC-O11DXL case...

How do you determine whats the safe daily value of VCCIO/SA? I'm comfortable running up to 1.5v dram but other than people on here I haven't been able to work out what is a conclusive safe tolerance past the 1.3v mark?


----------



## Imprezzion

blacknbigger212 said:


> See if you can do tCWL=14 - Some 2x16gb/4x8gb can do tcwl=tcl minus 3 for daily for better latency. If you do try tcwl 14, make sure tWRRD_SG/DG are on auto when you train with tWTR_L/S set, or vice versa. As long as either twrrd_sg/DG OR tWTR_L/S with the other on auto should be fine for tcwl training since it will adjust the other value by 2 as well as twrpre by 2.
> You can also try 6/12 or 7/14 for tRTP/tWR. I would try this if tcwl 14 doesn't stick.
> tRDRD_DR can usually go down to 5 on 2x16gb/4x8gb - provides a boost to read/copy bandwidth.
> tRDRD_SG can usually go down to 7, sometimes 6 on 2x16gb/4x8gb - Also improves read/copy bandwidth.
> tWRWR_SG can usually go down to 7, sometimes 6 on 2x16gb/4x8GB - I _think_ this improves write bandwidth >.>
> tWRRD_DR/DD can sometimes do 6 on 2x16gb/4x8GB - This improves some sort of bandwidth >.>
> All 4 tRDWR can go as low as 10 on 2x16GB/4x8GB but is harder to keep stable the lower you go, may require more vcore than normal?(not sure). Test these 4 timings specifically in games to see the FPS impact as well.
> 
> If there is anything I forgot that anyone here noticed or something wrong with the suggestions, please chime in.


So far it will at least boot tCWL and tWR 14 with tRTP 7. I used to run 12 tWR 12 tCWL 6 tRTP @ 4200C15 but that was with way way more DRAM Voltage. (1.60v).

It did POST and train tRDRD and tWRWR SG 7 so left that in as well, the DR's are on 6 as 5 is really unstable and won't even boot Windows @ 1.46v.

I can't get tWRWR to even POST 6 so I left that on 7 for now.

Testing TM5 now on slightly more voltage (1.46v --> 1.49v) for a bit more headroom voltage wise for tWR / tCWL to work.

@morph. 

I don't know if this is "safe" at all. I would not go above 1.35v SA 1.30v IO honestly as that is about the highest a completely stock XMP profile will go on high frequency RAM which has obviously been tested by the manufacturer (I hope...).

But personally I don't really "care" about my hardware all that much and I tend to run a bit more suicide voltages. I have no issues with running 1.45v SA 1.40v IO. Temps on the CPU don't rise noticably and as long as it doesn't show rapid degradation I'm fine with it.. and een if it does degrade, shame. Hobby's are expensive and I'll just get a new K/KF and stick this one on a backup rig with some 3200C16 which even degraded it should run..


----------



## morph.

Imprezzion said:


> @morph.
> 
> I don't know if this is "safe" at all. I would not go above 1.35v SA 1.30v IO honestly as that is about the highest a completely stock XMP profile will go on high frequency RAM which has obviously been tested by the manufacturer (I hope...).
> 
> But personally I don't really "care" about my hardware all that much and I tend to run a bit more suicide voltages. I have no issues with running 1.45v SA 1.40v IO. Temps on the CPU don't rise noticably and as long as it doesn't show rapid degradation I'm fine with it.. and een if it does degrade, shame. Hobby's are expensive and I'll just get a new K/KF and stick this one on a backup rig with some 3200C16 which even degraded it should run..


Fair enough I guess rocket lake isn't too far off...  Curious what is your aida 64 benchmark at 4400?


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, that's a shame. The adjustments @blacknbigger212 mentioned literally all failed miserably lol. Errors within 15 minutes in TM5. The tertiary timing adjustments didn't even POST, just a memory overclock failed POST message.

I really think this is the most I can do with these dimms. Which is fine as they are super cheap 3600C16's that I never expected to even do 4400C17 at any subtimings.

I did validate my current setup and yes that ran 1 hour no errors fine.

Adding DRAM Voltage also did nothing for stability at all. Went as high as 1.60v, no change.


----------



## Hequaqua

I feel lost......with my limited knowledge I really have no idea where to go or what to do....lol

This is as far as I've gotten. FYI, I'm not trying to reach peak speed, but more of a balance.

i7-10700k
Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Pro AX
GSkill Trident Neo 3600CL18(2*16gb)
4.9ghz @1.2v(override mode)
4.7ghz Ring
1.2v VCCSA
1.15v VCCIO

DRAM voltage is at stock except for 3866mhz. I'm using Aida64/Performance Test 10(memory)/SiSoft Sandra(memory). This set of GSkill is SK Hynix.



Spoiler: Timings/Results















The 4000mhz tests were just me changing tCL/tRCD/tRP/tRAS and tRFC.
The 3866mhz tests were me changing quite a few settings. I didn't touch RTL/IO-L or any of the sg_dg_dr_dd settings. As I said, I really have no idea what I'm doing on this platform. I moved from X470 so a lot of these sub-timings are Greek to me.

I'm pretty satisfied with performance, but we always was a bit more, so I guess I'm asking for some guidance. I really don't want to throw more voltage at anything. I did raise the DRAM voltage to 1.4 for 3866, but stock is fine at 4000.

It seems that 3866 with these timings are on par with 4000. 

I'm using OCCT memory testing, Karhu MemTest, TM5, HCI for testing. Oh, and a few runs of Linx and Linpack_Extreme.


----------



## Ichirou

morph. said:


> Yeah, I have a custom loop but no direct fan facing the memory really but fans surrounding it PC-O11DXL case...
> 
> How do you determine whats the safe daily value of VCCIO/SA? I'm comfortable running up to 1.5v dram but other than people on here I haven't been able to work out what is a conclusive safe tolerance past the 1.3v mark?


Every kit has different SA/IO requirements at different frequencies. From what I've observed, most overclockers running a Z490 series would consider the upper limit being 1.40V. But on the Z390 series, it would be more like 1.30-1.35V. However, that isn't written in stone, and there really isn't much empirical evidence of long-term stability/degradation at high IMC voltages as most people stop giving updates/disappear before a year of daily use. Personally, I can't ever see myself going above 1.30V, let alone 1.40V.

One known pattern however is that there is this strange wall at around the 4,200 MHz mark, and going beyond it tends to suddenly ramp up the SA/IO requirement. But if you don't go above it, you can generally be stable with rather low values. If you, like me, reach a frequency limitation/are concerned about IMC voltage, just focus on tightening tCL to bridge the gap instead. You don't need to have insane bandwidth limits, as most tasks out there will never actually realize them.

(FYI: I'm running 4x16 GB at 4,174 MHz CL15 with 1.63V VDIMM, 1.20/1.24V SA/IO. Seems to be the most stable for me so far after 158 hours of consecutive uptime, which is a bit of a record for me, considering I keep getting random idle BSODs around the 30-40 hour mark with 1.25V IO or higher. I can probably drop SA further, but I haven't tried to yet.)

As for VDIMM, most overclockers on Reddit claim that it's okay to test up to 1.70V as a daily driver. But from what I've seen, it seems that most people start experiencing instability quite a while before that, so you don't really need to worry about it affecting the CPU unless you're throwing it under water/LN2 and are just pumping a ton into it. In my particular case, I start getting errors if I go above 1.63V, so I think that's the theoretical maximum of my kit.



Hequaqua said:


> I feel lost......with my limited knowledge I really have no idea where to go or what to do....lol
> 
> This is as far as I've gotten. FYI, I'm not trying to reach peak speed, but more of a balance.
> 
> i7-10700k
> Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Pro AX
> GSkill Trident Neo 3600CL18(2*16gb)
> 4.9ghz @1.2v(override mode)
> 4.7ghz Ring
> 1.2v VCCSA
> 1.15v VCCIO
> 
> DRAM voltage is at stock except for 3866mhz. I'm using Aida64/Performance Test 10(memory)/SiSoft Sandra(memory). This set of GSkill is SK Hynix.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Timings/Results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2473595
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 4000mhz tests were just me changing tCL/tRCD/tRP/tRAS and tRFC.
> The 3866mhz tests were me changing quite a few settings. I didn't touch RTL/IO-L or any of the sg_dg_dr_dd settings. As I said, I really have no idea what I'm doing on this platform. I moved from X470 so a lot of these sub-timings are Greek to me.
> 
> I'm pretty satisfied with performance, but we always was a bit more, so I guess I'm asking for some guidance. I really don't want to throw more voltage at anything. I did raise the DRAM voltage to 1.4 for 3866, but stock is fine at 4000.
> 
> It seems that 3866 with these timings are on par with 4000.
> 
> I'm using OCCT memory testing, Karhu MemTest, TM5, HCI for testing. Oh, and a few runs of Linx and Linpack_Extreme.


Is your Hynix RAM CJR? If so, raise voltage. If not, then don't expect too much out of Hynix, lol.


----------



## Hequaqua

Ichirou said:


> Is your Hynix RAM CJR? If so, raise voltage. If not, then don't expect too much out of Hynix, lol.












This is all I know.....I'm not expecting/wanting blazing clocks...just maybe a little more less latency if possible.


----------



## Ichirou

Hequaqua said:


> View attachment 2473619
> 
> 
> This is all I know.....I'm not expecting/wanting blazing clocks...just maybe a little more less latency if possible.


Your latency seems fine. It's really only Samsung that easily reaches under 40ns. Really hard with other dies unless it's like, 4,200+ MHz and tightened. Be happy with what you've already achieved so far 

In comparison, I have super tightened 4,174 MHz CL15 with Micron B-die on Z390, and I can't break below 41.1 ns on a golden run. 40.5ns if I do safe mode. If I had a Z490 board, then _maybe _I might've broken past 40ns due to architecture (since somebody else here had a comparable kit at 4,200 MHz and broke past it on Z490).


----------



## 638220

Imprezzion said:


> Well, that's a shame. The adjustments @blacknbigger212 mentioned literally all failed miserably lol. Errors within 15 minutes in TM5. The tertiary timing adjustments didn't even POST, just a memory overclock failed POST message.
> 
> I really think this is the most I can do with these dimms. Which is fine as they are super cheap 3600C16's that I never expected to even do 4400C17 at any subtimings.
> 
> I did validate my current setup and yes that ran 1 hour no errors fine.
> 
> Adding DRAM Voltage also did nothing for stability at all. Went as high as 1.60v, no change.


Squeezing out c17/4400 at voltages you are comfortable running from c16/3600 sticks is solid,


Ichirou said:


> Every kit has different SA/IO requirements at different frequencies. From what I've observed, most overclockers running a Z490 series would consider the upper limit being 1.40V. But on the Z390 series, it would be more like 1.30-1.35V. However, that isn't written in stone, and there really isn't much empirical evidence of long-term stability/degradation at high IMC voltages as most people stop giving updates/disappear before a year of daily use. Personally, I can't ever see myself going above 1.30V, let alone 1.40V.
> 
> One known pattern however is that there is this strange wall at around the 4,200 MHz mark, and going beyond it tends to suddenly ramp up the SA/IO requirement. But if you don't go above it, you can generally be stable with rather low values. If you, like me, reach a frequency limitation/are concerned about IMC voltage, just focus on tightening tCL to bridge the gap instead. You don't need to have insane bandwidth limits, as most tasks out there will never actually realize them.
> 
> (FYI: I'm running 4x16 GB at 4,174 MHz CL15 with 1.63V VDIMM, 1.20/1.24V SA/IO. Seems to be the most stable for me so far after 158 hours of consecutive uptime, which is a bit of a record for me, considering I keep getting random idle BSODs around the 30-40 hour mark with 1.25V IO or higher. I can probably drop SA further, but I haven't tried to yet.)
> 
> As for VDIMM, most overclockers on Reddit claim that it's okay to test up to 1.70V as a daily driver. But from what I've seen, it seems that most people start experiencing instability quite a while before that, so you don't really need to worry about it affecting the CPU unless you're throwing it under water/LN2 and are just pumping a ton into it. In my particular case, I start getting errors if I go above 1.63V, so I think that's the theoretical maximum of my kit.
> 
> 
> Is your Hynix RAM CJR? If so, raise voltage. If not, then don't expect too much out of Hynix, lol.


Yeah I wouldn't go above 1.35v sa/io for daily use on z390 with 9th gen chips. Some chips may or may not be more tolerant of higher values long term. From what i've read across other forums, SA can be a bit higher than the IO if needed but one thing I consistently read across many forums is that too much IO is deadly longterm on 9th gen chips(probably around 1.4v? io). Right now i'm at 1.3v on both sa/io for 4333. As far as the sa/io voltage wall goes for 4200+, I think it is really dependent on the trace length on the board, cpu, ram and IMC. For example, using the same cpu/aorus master board, one of my 4x8gb ramkits needed 1.35v sa/io for c17/4266 while the new sticks i'm on now only need 1.3v sa/io for the same frequency/primaries but with tighter subs. The voltage jump on my board or rather these new dimms happens between 4333 and 4400, an extra 80mv sa/io is needed just for those last 67mhz lol. It's fine though, i'd rather have c16/4333 at 1.5v/vdimm 1.3v/sa-io for daily use than c17/4400 at 1.5v/vdimm 1.38v/sa-io anyway since bandwidth is roughly the same anyway. I tried to see if I could do c16/4400 but it just wasn't happening, maybe if I spent more time tuning timings it might pass 20-30 loops in linX but the sa-io requirements are no bueno.


----------



## Hequaqua

Ichirou said:


> Your latency seems fine. It's really only Samsung that easily reaches under 40ns. Really hard with other dies unless it's like, 4,200+ MHz and tightened. Be happy with what you've already achieved so far
> 
> In comparison, I have super tightened 4,174 MHz CL15 with Micron B-die on Z390, and I can't break below 41.1 ns on a golden run. 40.5ns if I do safe mode. If I had a Z490 board, then _maybe _I might've broken past 40ns due to architecture (since somebody else here had a comparable kit at 4,200 MHz and broke past it on Z490).


OK....sounds like a plan. Thanks


----------



## Placekicker19

With tighten RTLS &IOLS, tRRD_L is only stable when set to a odd value. 5,7, and 9 all perform good and are stable. 4,6, and 8 all crash at boot, or start of any memory stress test. Its so strange how ram can behave. Ive never had a kit that was only stable when tRRD_L was set to a odd value. I even tested with every other timing at default, only changing tFAW, tRRD_L& _S and experienced the same results, so it wasnt caused by other timings. "Even" values just do not work on my board/ram combo for tRRD_L.


----------



## morph.

Ichirou said:


> Every kit has different SA/IO requirements at different frequencies. From what I've observed, most overclockers running a Z490 series would consider the upper limit being 1.40V. But on the Z390 series, it would be more like 1.30-1.35V. However, that isn't written in stone, and there really isn't much empirical evidence of long-term stability/degradation at high IMC voltages as most people stop giving updates/disappear before a year of daily use. Personally, I can't ever see myself going above 1.30V, let alone 1.40V.
> 
> One known pattern however is that there is this strange wall at around the 4,200 MHz mark, and going beyond it tends to suddenly ramp up the SA/IO requirement. But if you don't go above it, you can generally be stable with rather low values. If you, like me, reach a frequency limitation/are concerned about IMC voltage, just focus on tightening tCL to bridge the gap instead. You don't need to have insane bandwidth limits, as most tasks out there will never actually realize them.
> 
> (FYI: I'm running 4x16 GB at 4,174 MHz CL15 with 1.63V VDIMM, 1.20/1.24V SA/IO. Seems to be the most stable for me so far after 158 hours of consecutive uptime, which is a bit of a record for me, considering I keep getting random idle BSODs around the 30-40 hour mark with 1.25V IO or higher. I can probably drop SA further, but I haven't tried to yet.)
> 
> As for VDIMM, most overclockers on Reddit claim that it's okay to test up to 1.70V as a daily driver. But from what I've seen, it seems that most people start experiencing instability quite a while before that, so you don't really need to worry about it affecting the CPU unless you're throwing it under water/LN2 and are just pumping a ton into it. In my particular case, I start getting errors if I go above 1.63V, so I think that's the theoretical maximum of my kit.


Yeah without active cooling on my memory modules I'm not comfortable going past 1.5vdimm.
From some initial test, I do feel as though I hit a wall at 4200 as you suggested at 4300 posts but bsods on boot even with 1.5vdimm and 1.3v sa/io.

Currently, at 4200-16-17-17-36 I have something that resembles stability but was unable to with 16-16-16 very quick errors etc... I honestly had the expectation of being able to run 16 flat with my kit which is gskill 2x16 3600c14. Perhaps my imc lottery isn't very strong. As I've heard people with this kit can run IO/SA in the 1.2s and even 1.45vdimm at that frequency & timing. Or maybe I'm just doing it all completely wrong...

The other thing I can think of helping this is understanding how to set up the skew settings but I'm not really sure where to start there but apparently, this enables less voltage and higher ocs.
Another thing I can think of is to increase the SA/IO further past 1.3v


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Your latency seems fine. It's really only Samsung that easily reaches under 40ns. Really hard with other dies unless it's like, 4,200+ MHz and tightened. Be happy with what you've already achieved so far
> 
> In comparison, I have super tightened 4,174 MHz CL15 with Micron B-die on Z390, and I can't break below 41.1 ns on a golden run. 40.5ns if I do safe mode. If I had a Z490 board, then _maybe _I might've broken past 40ns due to architecture (since somebody else here had a comparable kit at 4,200 MHz and broke past it on Z490).


me


















Been trying for a few days. Cant get it to 4300 with 16-20-20-38 primary and 1.5V VDIMM.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Hequaqua said:


> View attachment 2473619
> 
> 
> This is all I know.....I'm not expecting/wanting blazing clocks...just maybe a little more less latency if possible.


Check the sticker on the stick. If it ends with 20C or 25C, its CJR, which don't eat too much volt. If 20D, push it harder, it may reach 4133 (don't know Giga, but 4133 is very conservative). If 20M or 20J, just sell it


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> me
> View attachment 2473763
> 
> 
> View attachment 2473762
> 
> 
> Been trying for a few days. Cant get it to 4300 with 16-20-20-38 primary and 1.5V VDIMM.


What exact kit do you have? Maybe I'll try it out in the future, since some of the better boards are now shifting to a two-slot design instead of four-slot, which would invalidate my 4x16 GB DIMM kit.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> What exact kit do you have? Maybe I'll try it out in the future, since some of the better boards are now shifting to a two-slot design instead of four-slot, which would invalidate my 4x16 GB DIMM kit.


This:








Crucial Ballistix 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory(Black) | BL2K32G36C16U4B | Crucial.com


Buy Crucial Ballistix 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory(Black) BL2K32G36C16U4B. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.




www.crucial.com





I got it for 300USD, seems they just raised the price.

3200MHz kit has the same chip.


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crucial Ballistix 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory(Black) | BL2K32G36C16U4B | Crucial.com
> 
> 
> Buy Crucial Ballistix 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory(Black) BL2K32G36C16U4B. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crucial.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got it for 300USD, seems they just raised the price.
> 
> 3200MHz kit has the same chip.


Looks like Micron E-die; I hear they tend to cap off around 1.5V VDIMM. I wouldn't be surprised if they have slightly better latency than B-die. What has your experience been with trying to push it beyond 1.5V?


----------



## Herald

Ichirou said:


> Every kit has different SA/IO requirements at different frequencies. From what I've observed, most overclockers running a Z490 series would consider the upper limit being 1.40V. But on the Z390 series, it would be more like 1.30-1.35V. However, that isn't written in stone, and there really isn't much empirical evidence of long-term stability/degradation at high IMC voltages as most people stop giving updates/disappear before a year of daily use. Personally, I can't ever see myself going above 1.30V, let alone 1.40V.44


 So let me give some help. I've been running an 8700k + z370 gaming 7 at about 1.37 SA and 1.32 IO for 3 years, no degradation from what I could observe. I've sold the system to an amateur overclocker, he is now running some 4500+ hz rams on it, so I assume it's still okay.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Looks like Micron E-die; I hear they tend to cap off around 1.5V VDIMM. I wouldn't be surprised if they have slightly better latency than B-die. What has your experience been with trying to push it beyond 1.5V?


Its actually b-die, C9BLG, CT40A2G8VA-55M:B 

Haven't tried C9BLG with 1.6V+ yet, but had good experience with C9BLH at 1.6V+ VDIMM. Easy to do 4900 on Intel MB.


----------



## Hequaqua

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Check the sticker on the stick. If it ends with 20C or 25C, its CJR, which don't eat too much volt. If 20D, push it harder, it may reach 4133 (don't know Giga, but 4133 is very conservative). If 20M or 20J, just sell it


Shows 21D I think.









04213X8821D = Hynix 8Gb DJR 

Source:
Figuring out G.Skill's SNs [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums


----------



## Ichirou

Herald said:


> So let me give some help. I've been running an 8700k + z370 gaming 7 at about 1.37 SA and 1.32 IO for 3 years, no degradation from what I could observe. I've sold the system to an amateur overclocker, he is now running some 4500+ hz rams on it, so I assume it's still okay.


Definitely good to know. There really aren't many people who report about about long-term RAM overclock usage, so it's hard to paint an accurate picture. 3+ years is more or less the typical life cycle of hardware in modern times, so that is definitely reasonable.


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Its actually b-die, C9BLG, CT40A2G8VA-55M:B
> 
> Haven't tried C9BLG with 1.6V+ yet, but had good experience with C9BLH at 1.6V+ VDIMM. Easy to do 4900 on Intel MB.


Oh hm, I wonder why the other primaries are tight. Super binned?
I found a similar 2x32 GB kit at 4,000 MHz CL18 by Corsair; seems to be 18-18-18-X. Not sure if it's the same die though.


----------



## Herald

After a bios update on my Ace Z490 I seem to be able to get to 4.4ghz on ram and 4.9ghz on the cache, settings I could barely boot with before. Thing is, with xmp timings (so 17-17-17-37 and manual 370 TRFC) it seems to be perfectly stable, at least for 1 hour of 1usmus_v3. As soon as I change tRRDS tRRDL tFAW tWR to the "safe values" from the github guide I get errors (everything else is on auto). Not frequent, and not a lot (1 or 2 errors after 1 hour) but they are there. I'm thinking it might be the cache and I should back it down to 4.7ghz, but can it be high cache frequency throwing errors on TM5? The errors were on test 8 and 1, if that's any help.


----------



## Imprezzion

Hmm, my tRRD_L has no problems running 4 along side tRRD_S 4 as well. Nice!

















Tested it with a quick 1hr TM5 Anta Extreme run, no problems at all @ 1.460v DRAM 1.365v SA 1.30v IO.

Still a shame I can't get a lower tWR / tCWL or better tRDWR's to run at 4400 so far but i'll keep on tweaking during my working from home now and then and maybe i'll hit that one sweet spot voltage / timing wise that it will do lol.

I did raise my tRFC from 320 to 330 as 320 is very much on the edge. Sometimes it passes 1 hour TM5 sometimes it doesn't and 310 for example is a error fest with like 200+ errors in 30 minutes so I guess 320 was a bit too much edgelord stuff.


----------



## Ichirou

Herald said:


> After a bios update on my Ace Z490 I seem to be able to get to 4.4ghz on ram and 4.9ghz on the cache, settings I could barely boot with before. Thing is, with xmp timings (so 17-17-17-37 and manual 370 TRFC) it seems to be perfectly stable, at least for 1 hour of 1usmus_v3. As soon as I change tRRDS tRRDL tFAW tWR to the "safe values" from the github guide I get errors (everything else is on auto). Not frequent, and not a lot (1 or 2 errors after 1 hour) but they are there. I'm thinking it might be the cache and I should back it down to 4.7ghz, but can it be high cache frequency throwing errors on TM5? The errors were on test 8 and 1, if that's any help.


If errors occur late in the test after one or two cycles are successfully completed, it's tends to be heat-related. Timings always vary per kit, so you will want to gradually test each value going down. There is no one good setting for every kit. And don't do groups of timings at a time; be patient and do one at a time so you can isolate the problem.

Also, yes, I've personally experienced TM5 errors when the cache is too high (in my case, I'd sometimes get errors if I set it to 4.8-4.9 GHz as opposed to 4.7 GHz). It means that the Vcore isn't high enough when it is necessary, and the CPU throws an error. I suggest leaving the cache on something low like 4.3 GHz temporarily, and then raise it after you're done tightening your RAM. This will help isolate the issue.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Hequaqua said:


> Shows 21D I think.
> View attachment 2473815
> 
> 
> 04213X8821D = Hynix 8Gb DJR
> 
> Source:
> Figuring out G.Skill's SNs [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums


Good. Should be DR DJR.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> Oh hm, I wonder why the other primaries are tight. Super binned?
> I found a similar 2x32 GB kit at 4,000 MHz CL18 by Corsair; seems to be 18-18-18-X. Not sure if it's the same die though.


Nah, I just bought one pair.

Chips on Corsair should come from SpecTek, a company to deal with low level Micron ram chips. Quality should be worse than Ballistix 3600C16.


----------



## Herald

Ichirou said:


> If errors occur late in the test after one or two cycles are successfully completed, it's tends to be heat-related. Timings always vary per kit, so you will want to gradually test each value going down. There is no one good setting for every kit. And don't do groups of timings at a time; be patient and do one at a time so you can isolate the problem.
> 
> Also, yes, I've personally experienced TM5 errors when the cache is too high (in my case, I'd sometimes get errors if I set it to 4.8-4.9 GHz as opposed to 4.7 GHz). It means that the Vcore isn't high enough when it is necessary, and the CPU throws an error. I suggest leaving the cache on something low like 4.3 GHz temporarily, and then raise it after you're done tightening your RAM. This will help isolate the issue.


Thanks. Problem is, if I test on 4.3 cache, wouldn't that make the whole testing invalid when i turn my cache back up to 4.9? Or the cache errors are fixed just by adding vcore and have nothing to do with the ram?

My kits max out at 40-41C so I don't think it's heat related. Also my AIDA scores are pityful. I mean read / write / copy is where it should be (around 64.5-65.5-60) but latency is at ~39. I guess my RTL's are just random or something, here is where i'm at right now 

PS1. tCWL should be TCL-2 or something but for some reason anything below 18 just doesn't even boot.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Herald said:


> Thanks. Problem is, if I test on 4.3 cache, wouldn't that make the whole testing invalid when i turn my cache back up to 4.9? Or the cache errors are fixed just by adding vcore and have nothing to do with the ram?
> 
> My kits max out at 40-41C so I don't think it's heat related. Also my AIDA scores are pityful. I mean read / write / copy is where it should be (around 64.5-65.5-60) but latency is at ~39. I guess my RTL's are just random or something, here is where i'm at right now
> 
> PS1. tCWL should be TCL-2 or something but for some reason anything below 18 just doesn't even boot.


Put tCWL to 16 and raise all tRDWR to 13~14.


----------



## Ichirou

Herald said:


> Thanks. Problem is, if I test on 4.3 cache, wouldn't that make the whole testing invalid when i turn my cache back up to 4.9? Or the cache errors are fixed just by adding vcore and have nothing to do with the ram?
> 
> My kits max out at 40-41C so I don't think it's heat related. Also my AIDA scores are pityful. I mean read / write / copy is where it should be (around 64.5-65.5-60) but latency is at ~39. I guess my RTL's are just random or something, here is where i'm at right now
> 
> PS1. tCWL should be TCL-2 or something but for some reason anything below 18 just doesn't even boot.


The thing is, you don't want there to be external factors causing a RAM overclock to be unstable. Random example: Say your kit is at CL16, but it can actually run perfectly stable at CL14. You overclock your CPU cache, which ends up causing errors that you weren't aware about. You set your RAM to CL14, and you see those errors. Naturally, you think that your RAM doesn't work at CL14, since that was the last change you made. See what I'm getting at? There is nothing wrong with raising the cache _after _you're done your RAM overclocking (and you should be retesting TM5 as well for any cache clock changes).

Different kits have different heat tolerances; just because somebody's kit can do 50-60C doesn't mean yours can, for example.

As for why your scores aren't as high as you want them to be, it's probably because your tREFI isn't particularly high. Most people just ramp that up to max. But that does significantly raise heat.


----------



## Herald

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Put tCWL to 16 and raise all tRDWR to 13~14.


Not booting. It really hates TWCL....


----------



## Ichirou

Herald said:


> Not booting. It really hates TWCL....


Test every value down to like, 12. If it doesn't boot, then it doesn't boot. Not much you can do about that.


----------



## WayWayUp

Hello Gentleman, 

I need some help with RTL IOL tuning 
I have successfully got my system running 4533 15 16 16 34. 
Initially i had tRAS running at 32 and things were working fine but when i moved to stability testing i was getting errors.

Moving to 34 seemed to fix everything. System is stable now but i lost latency for sure according to aida. I would like to gain that back!

Many of you are better at RTLs and i would like some suggestions if possible
here are the settings at auto




















suggestions?


----------



## WayWayUp

i would give you timings in windows but cant seem to get it working on this comp


----------



## Ichirou

WayWayUp said:


> Hello Gentleman,
> 
> I need some help with RTL IOL tuning
> I have successfully got my system running 4533 15 16 16 34.
> Initially i had tRAS running at 32 and things were working fine but when i moved to stability testing i was getting errors.
> 
> Moving to 34 seemed to fix everything. System is stable now but i lost latency for sure according to aida. I would like to gain that back!
> 
> Many of you are better at RTLs and i would like some suggestions if possible
> here are the settings at auto
> 
> View attachment 2473870
> 
> 
> View attachment 2473871
> 
> 
> 
> suggestions?


59-59 and 7-7 are already pretty much tightened. The BIOS already did it for you. You can test 58-58 and 6-6, but results may vary.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

WayWayUp said:


> View attachment 2473872
> 
> i would give you timings in windows but cant seem to get it working on this comp
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2473875


tXP=4, PPD=0 for further latency reduction.


----------



## WayWayUp

sweet. i got 58-58 to work


----------



## Placekicker19

Imprezzion said:


> Hmm, my tRRD_L has no problems running 4 along side tRRD_S 4 as well. Nice!
> 
> View attachment 2473829
> View attachment 2473830
> 
> 
> Tested it with a quick 1hr TM5 Anta Extreme run, no problems at all @ 1.460v DRAM 1.365v SA 1.30v IO.
> 
> Still a shame I can't get a lower tWR / tCWL or better tRDWR's to run at 4400 so far but i'll keep on tweaking during my working from home now and then and maybe i'll hit that one sweet spot voltage / timing wise that it will do lol.
> 
> I did raise my tRFC from 320 to 330 as 320 is very much on the edge. Sometimes it passes 1 hour TM5 sometimes it doesn't and 310 for example is a error fest with like 200+ errors in 30 minutes so I guess 320 was a bit too much edgelord stuff.


Didnt you use to have set quite a bit higher trrd_l and _s for stability with that kit?


----------



## Imprezzion

Placekicker19 said:


> Didnt you use to have set quite a bit higher trrd_l and _s for stability with that kit?


Yeah but I fixed that by raising tRDWR to 15 from 12's and tRFC was too tight (I was running 300 / Max tREFI). For some reason it runs it just fine at 4/4 16 tFAW now..

I really don't get the relationships between certain timings yet lol.

Problem now is that at 4200C15 with way more DRAM Voltage (1.60v) it will do 300 tRFC and 4/4 tRRD_S+L 16 tFAW and 11 tWRWR just fine but as soon as I go to 4400 it hits a brick wall for those timings and voltage doesn't seem to help at all. 

Other issue is tRCD / tRP primary timings cannot go under 17 at any timing. CAS will go lower quite easily, at 4200 C15 works fine, at 4000 C14 works fine, as long as I keep 17 on the other 2. It cannot do 16-16-16 on 4200 for example or even 14-16-16 on 4000. I do not have to raise them all the way to 4400 tho (with way less voltage).. which is weird to me..


----------



## Herald

Ichirou said:


> Test every value down to like, 12. If it doesn't boot, then it doesn't boot. Not much you can do about that.


Nah, tcwl doesn't work below 18. I even tried with 4000 mhz, nothing. 

Anyways, I'm now following your advice. The cpu is stock and I'm experimenting. Basically my plan / goal is to tight down one timing at a time. I'll just stress test every single timing overnight, so basically one timing a day. In a month I hope I'll be somewhere. 
About the trefi, you were right. With it maxed out my numbers are where they should be, 66 reads writes and 36.5ns latency.


----------



## Imprezzion

Herald said:


> Nah, tcwl doesn't work below 18. I even tried with 4000 mhz, nothing.
> 
> Anyways, I'm now following your advice. The cpu is stock and I'm experimenting. Basically my plan / goal is to tight down one timing at a time. I'll just stress test every single timing overnight, so basically one timing a day. In a month I hope I'll be somewhere.
> About the trefi, you were right. With it maxed out my numbers are where they should be, 66 reads writes and 36.5ns latency.


Do keep in mind that maxed tREFI doesn't show instability in stress tests. It can however show instability in suspend/sleep states as it has something to do with the refresh / hold time of a data cell I thought.

I've done some testing as well just to see how high of a frequency I can boot to Windows regardless of timings. I maxed at 4700. 4800 does POST but won't pass Windows boot. Was fun while it lasted. And no, 4700 is nowhere near stable lol. I tried 4700 all Auto except 19-21-21-40-400-2T primaries. 4600 can stress stable at 18-19-19-39-360-2T but I need far too much voltage for it. Like, 1.48v SA 1.40v IO 1.63v DRAM.


----------



## Herald

Imprezzion said:


> Do keep in mind that maxed tREFI doesn't show instability in stress tests. It can however show instability in suspend/sleep states as it has something to do with the refresh / hold time of a data cell I thought.
> 
> I've done some testing as well just to see how high of a frequency I can boot to Windows regardless of timings. I maxed at 4700. 4800 does POST but won't pass Windows boot. Was fun while it lasted. And no, 4700 is nowhere near stable lol. I tried 4700 all Auto except 19-21-21-40-400-2T primaries. 4600 can stress stable at 18-19-19-39-360-2T but I need far too much voltage for it. Like, 1.48v SA 1.40v IO 1.63v DRAM.


I can boot in 5k no problem, auto timings though. 1.5sa 1.45io. 
What ram do you have? Mine is the 4000c17-17-17 1.35volts. Supposed to be top binned kit but meh, or it could just be my IMC being ****.


----------



## Imprezzion

Herald said:


> I can boot in 5k no problem, auto timings though. 1.5sa 1.45io.
> What ram do you have? Mine is the 4000c17-17-17 1.35volts. Supposed to be top binned kit but meh, or it could just be my IMC being ****.


3600C16 Trident-Z Neo's. Poor bin but they were cheap and do 4400C17 just fine but I wanted something to tinker with while working from home so I'm basically just trying random frequency and timing combinations out of pure boredom.

I got 4533 18-19-19-39-360-2T @ 1.60v DRAM 1.45v SA 1.35v IO to actually pass an hour of TM5 but performance latency wise isn't all that great because of the super loose secondaries and tertiaries... It barely goes under 38ns while 4400C17 tighter does do 36.3ns average in 10 runs AIDA. Does have way more bandwidth actually touching 70GB/s.


----------



## itssladenlol

Fiddling arround with my new 4000 c17 trident Z royal silver 2x16gb kit.
Nothing serious yet but im happy to see it boots up to 4700 c16.
Will test for voltages and stability when i Put a waterblock on it (next week)
When my watercool stuff arrives ill Put 5,3GHz core 5GHz cache and adjust rtls iols. 
Should bring me under 35ns.

Little Preview, nothing optimized.


----------



## o1dschoo1

itssladenlol said:


> Fiddling arround with my new 4000 c17 trident Z royal silver 2x16gb kit.
> Nothing serious yet but im happy to see it boots up to 4700 c16.
> Will test for voltages and stability when i Put a waterblock on it (next week)
> When my watercool stuff arrives ill Put 5,3GHz core 5GHz cache and adjust rtls iols.
> Should bring me under 35ns.
> 
> Little Preview, nothing optimized.
> View attachment 2473951


Man the royal kits clock like it's no one's business I guess. I got a cl14 3200 kit that does 3800 cl15 1.45 and booted 4k cl16 1.45. I'm curious what your settings for 4600 will be.


----------



## itssladenlol

o1dschoo1 said:


> Man the royal kits clock like it's no one's business I guess. I got a cl14 3200 kit that does 3800 cl15 1.45 and booted 4k cl16 1.45. I'm curious what your settings for 4600 will be.


Had like 10-12 Kits here of normal ripjaws, none would do 4400 c16... One royal Kit... Boom 4700 c16.
Royal seems to be the best bin by far.


----------



## WayWayUp

are you sure about that? i thought the only difference was cosmetic

in fact im running ripjaws right now at 4533 cl15 with extreme subs at 1.3sa and 1.22io fully stable
better than any trident sticks ive tried


----------



## itssladenlol

WayWayUp said:


> are you sure about that? i thought the only difference was cosmetic
> 
> in fact im running ripjaws right now at 4533 cl15 with extreme subs at 1.3sa and 1.22io fully stable
> better than any trident sticks ive tried


Define.. Stable...
Pretty sure thats Not [email protected], gsat, hci or Karhu stable unless you run 1.7v + for daily.
You would be the First Person in history here to run 4533 c15 daily.

Unless you are talking About 8GB modules...Im talking About dual rank 16GB modules.
Big Difference.

Edit: yeah you are running 4000 c15 sticks which is single rank....
Single rank is waaaay easier to get high freq with low cl.


----------



## o1dschoo1

itssladenlol said:


> Had like 10-12 Kits here of normal ripjaws, none would do 4400 c16... One royal Kit... Boom 4700 c16.
> Royal seems to be the best bin by far.


What kinda voltages you running for 4700?


----------



## WayWayUp

itssladenlol said:


> Define.. Stable...
> Pretty sure thats Not [email protected], gsat, hci or Karhu stable unless you run 1.7v + for daily.
> You would be the First Person in history here to run 4533 c15 daily.
> 
> Unless you are talking About 8GB modules...Im talking About dual rank 16GB modules.
> Big Difference.
> 
> Edit: yeah you are running 4000 c15 sticks which is single rank....
> Single rank is waaaay easier to get high freq with low cl.


it's not waaaay easier first of all. maybe 300mhz difference at max and it can usually run .1v lower too boot so you can raise voltage and make up some difference. its harder yes but not as much as you think

Disregarding that, my initial point still stands. not seeing any difference between bins. if one pair is listed as 4000 16 16 16 36 and thats ripjaws and an equal chip comes out as with same stats and is released as royal, i wouldnt assume the royal is a better bin just because of its branding.
I would need to see some research on this and i searched the web and couldnt find any difference other than cosmetic

if there IS a difference i would like to know about it
and yes my system is perfectly stable after full suite of stress testing with 50 cache too boot along with 270 tRFC, 4 4 16 tRRDS/tRRDL/tFAW, ext eveything maxed out.

I'm not being rude and apologize if it reads as such, but im just trying to pick your brain. The same exact kit is being offered in a Z package if i got that should i expect even better results?


----------



## o1dschoo1

WayWayUp said:


> it's not waaaay easier first of all. maybe 300mhz difference at max and it can usually run .1v lower too boot so you can raise voltage and make up some difference. its harder yes but not as much as you think
> 
> Disregarding that, my initial point still stands. not seeing any difference between bins. if one pair is listed as 4000 16 16 16 36 and thats ripjaws and an equal chip comes out as with same stats and is released as royal, i wouldnt assume the royal is a better bin just because of its branding.
> I would need to see some research on this and i searched the web and couldnt find any difference other than cosmetic
> 
> if there IS a difference i would like to know about it
> and yes my system is perfectly stable after full suite of stress testing with 50 cache too boot along with 270 tRFC, 4 4 16 tRRDS/tRRDL/tFAW, ext eveything maxed out.
> 
> I'm not being rude and apologize if it reads as such, but im just trying to pick your brain. The same exact kit is being offered in a Z package if i got that should i expect even better results?


He's running 16gb sticks.but yea it's all high binned bdie to be honest. Cl16 4000 is probably gonna be better than cl17 4000 bin wise. I can't comment on how well the 3200 cl14 are as I'm on x299 and can't boot 4000 and up


----------



## Imprezzion

Got my tWR and tCWL to finally do 14/14 without erroring like mad. It took +0.01v DRAM and quite a lot more SA (for some reason...) but it works lol. Had to push SA from 1.365v to 1.400v but at least it doesn't error like mad in the first 10 minutes anymore. Now off to get better tRDWR's hopefully.


----------



## WayWayUp

I'm in agreement if the xmp profile shows a tighter bin
in fact im comparing 3 different sticks. first was:

a) 4400 18-19-19-39
b) 4000 15-16-16-36
c) 4400 16-19-19-39

after actually testing them, C > B >>>A

if you just measure implied latency in a calculator you would actually expect this result and (at least for me) it panned out exactly like i thought
so now i pay extra for the best bin.

with that said i dont look at whether its ripjaws, royal, Z, ext.. just the b-die xmp


----------



## SoldierRBT

Hi. I got another ram kit model F4-4266C17D-32GVKB. 
4500 16-17-17-32 1.585v DRAM 1.30v IO/SA
Just quick testing before putting them under water. Tested also 1 hour of TM5 Extreme and 1 Hour of Battlefield V. I may have to adjust IO/SA voltages a little more and hopefully reduce DRAM voltage with the waterblock.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

itssladenlol said:


> Fiddling arround with my new 4000 c17 trident Z royal silver 2x16gb kit.
> Nothing serious yet but im happy to see it boots up to 4700 c16.
> Will test for voltages and stability when i Put a waterblock on it (next week)
> When my watercool stuff arrives ill Put 5,3GHz core 5GHz cache and adjust rtls iols.
> Should bring me under 35ns.
> 
> Little Preview, nothing optimized.
> View attachment 2473951


Use RTL-IOL 63-63-8-8, and txp4 ppd0, should be able to lower the lat below 35ns.


----------



## itssladenlol

o1dschoo1 said:


> He's running 16gb sticks.but yea it's all high binned bdie to be honest. Cl16 4000 is probably gonna be better than cl17 4000 bin wise. I can't comment on how well the 3200 cl14 are as I'm on x299 and can't boot 4000 and up


4000 c16 is not better bin, its Almost the same. 
4000 c16 bin is 1,5v
4000 c17 bin is 1,4v


----------



## itssladenlol

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Use RTL-IOL 63-63-8-8, and txp4 ppd0, should be able to lower the lat below 35ns.


As i said nothing dialed in yet.
Once they are under water i will adjust rtls and iols and get under 35ns  
Was just a Quick boot to see what the sticks are capable of. 
Nothing final.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

itssladenlol said:


> 4000 c16 is not better bin, its Almost the same.
> 4000 c16 bin is 1,5v
> 4000 c17 bin is 1,4v


They are all at 1.4V.

For GSkill its simple, the price scales linearly with the quality


----------



## Placekicker19

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah but I fixed that by raising tRDWR to 15 from 12's and tRFC was too tight (I was running 300 / Max tREFI). For some reason it runs it just fine at 4/4 16 tFAW now..
> 
> I really don't get the relationships between certain timings yet lol.
> 
> Problem now is that at 4200C15 with way more DRAM Voltage (1.60v) it will do 300 tRFC and 4/4 tRRD_S+L 16 tFAW and 11 tWRWR just fine but as soon as I go to 4400 it hits a brick wall for those timings and voltage doesn't seem to help at all.
> 
> Other issue is tRCD / tRP primary timings cannot go under 17 at any timing. CAS will go lower quite easily, at 4200 C15 works fine, at 4000 C14 works fine, as long as I keep 17 on the other 2. It cannot do 16-16-16 on 4200 for example or even 14-16-16 on 4000. I do not have to raise them all the way to 4400 tho (with way less voltage).. which is weird to me..


Do you get better performance with higher tRDWR and a lower tFAW, tRRD_L and _S? It really is difficult trying to find which timings react with each other, "raising this timings means these timings are now stable at a lower setting, ect. ect."

That's weird you hit a brick wall @ 4400 now a those timings. Will setting a slightly high tRRD_L and _S work? You could also try loosening RTLs and IOLs by 1 or 2 to see if it will get you past the wall. I could run 4400 cl17 fine the 16 tFAW, tRRD_L =6 and _S=4 but once i went to 4500mhz everything changed. Im starting to think my issues is with tRRD_S at 4 . Maybe certain sticks just cant maintain stability on those timings after a certain frequency. I do know most of my stability issues ive had has been linked to those timings.


----------



## Herald

Is it possible that lowering the tCL, without any other changes, to reduce your Reads and Writes? My latency seems to come down about 0.3-0.5ns, but my reads / writes are about 500-600mb/s down. The heck?


----------



## Herald

Placekicker19 said:


> Do you get better performance with higher tRDWR and a lower tFAW, tRRD_L and _S? It really is difficult trying to find which timings react with each other, "raising this timings means these timings are now stable at a lower setting, ect. ect."
> 
> That's weird you hit a brick wall @ 4400 now with those settings. will setting a slighty high tRRD_L and _S work? I could run 4400 cl17 fine the 16 tFAW, tRRD_L =6 and _S=4 but once i went to 4500mhz everything changed. Im starting to think my issues is with tRRD_S at 4 . Maybe certain sticks just cant maintain stability on those timings after a certain frequency. I do know most of my stability issues ive had has been linked to those timings.


Ram ocing is just trick as ***k. I was hitting a stonewall for 6 months not realizing what the issue is. Turns out, something on my setup (either ram / mobo or the cpu) doesn't like tCWL under 18. No matter the frequency, I can't even boot with tCWL on anything else other than 18. I even tried with 1.38v core 1.4sa and 1.35io (with 1.55vdimm). Doesn't badge.. So I settled there I guess, what can you do


----------



## itssladenlol

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> They are all at 1.4V.
> 
> For GSkill its simple, the price scales linearly with the quality


My Bad just checked.
4000 c16 is 16/19/19/39 1,4v
4000 c17 is 17/18/18/38 1,4v

Had 4000 c16 here and couldn’t do 4400 c16 😅


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

itssladenlol said:


> My Bad just checked.
> 4000 c16 is 16/19/19/39 1,4v
> 4000 c17 is 17/18/18/38 1,4v
> 
> Had 4000 c16 here and couldn’t do 4400 c16 😅


That might be bad luck.

Ive seen some 4000C16D, 4400 16-16 is hard but 4400 16-17 should be doable. Just need to mind the tRFC (don't be too high, 280~320), VDIMM (need sufficient amount, mostly 1.5~1.55V with tightened sub timings), and tRDRD_dr (<=6).


----------



## Ichirou

itssladenlol said:


> Had like 10-12 Kits here of normal ripjaws, none would do 4400 c16... One royal Kit... Boom 4700 c16.
> Royal seems to be the best bin by far.


Which exact kit did you buy?


Herald said:


> Is it possible that lowering the tCL, without any other changes, to reduce your Reads and Writes? My latency seems to come down about 0.3-0.5ns, but my reads / writes are about 500-600mb/s down. The heck?


Retest AIDA a dozen times or so to rule out variance. Make sure frequency is the same.
If all other timings are set to Auto, there's a chance that the BIOS is loosening them for your tCL tighten, causing scores to reduce.
All else held equal, reducing tCL should always be an improvement across the board (if stable).


----------



## Thrakis

hi, quick question.
I see some of You using A1&A2 dimm slots on asus MBs, other stick to recommended bu asus A2&B2 slots as I do myself.
What's the advantage of using A1&A2 slots?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Thrakis said:


> hi, quick question.
> I see some of You using A1&A2 dimm slots on asus MBs, other stick to recommended bu asus A2&B2 slots as I do myself.
> What's the advantage of using A1&A2 slots?


m12a only has 2 physical ram slots. That's a software bug.


----------



## Thrakis

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> m12a only has 2 physical ram slots. That's a software bug.


Ah, apex, right  me dummy  thanks


----------



## WayWayUp

I havent had as much luck with 1.4v kits. at first it seems like a sweet amount of headroom but from my experience it doesnt scale well.
In fact, i have a kit that freaks out at 1.65v
have to scale it back to 1.55v to run smoothly but then it cant run the settings i want

whereas any 1.5v kit ive tried runs 1.65v effortlessly
b-die of course


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> Hi. I got another ram kit model F4-4266C17D-32GVKB.
> 4500 16-17-17-32 1.585v DRAM 1.30v IO/SA
> Just quick testing before putting them under water. Tested also 1 hour of TM5 Extreme and 1 Hour of Battlefield V. I may have to adjust IO/SA voltages a little more and hopefully reduce DRAM voltage with the waterblock.


That's almost exactly what I'm running as a daily by the looks except my io and sa are higher and vdimm lower
Same hardware though
Can you do an hour or two of gsat with that? That's where mine was falling over


----------



## SoldierRBT

munternet said:


> That's almost exactly what I'm running as a daily by the looks except my io and sa are higher and vdimm lower
> Same hardware though
> Can you do an hour or two of gsat with that? That's where mine was falling over


Could you share your settings? It needs 1.585v because of tight tRFC and tRAS. I may go 36 tRAS and 360 tRFC to lower voltage but I'll wait to get them under water. Do you have the same kit? What thermal pads did you buy to replace the EK ones? the ones that EK sent with the waterblock feel cheap. I I was thinking buying these:






Amazon.com: mod/smart Fujipoly Extreme X-e Thermal Pad - 60 x 50 x 0.5 - Thermal Conductivity 11.0 W/mK: Computers & Accessories


Amazon.com: mod/smart Fujipoly Extreme X-e Thermal Pad - 60 x 50 x 0.5 - Thermal Conductivity 11.0 W/mK: Computers & Accessories



www.amazon.com


----------



## WayWayUp

i noticed the same thing with the ek kit however I'm not sure you truely need to upgrade pads as there honestly isnt THAT much heat that needs to be transfered.

since i already had these i made use of them:


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CGR62QX/ref=twister_B08FX7SJLG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1



seem to work great and fits the kit better
just cut to size


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> Could you share your settings? It needs 1.585v because of tight tRFC and tRAS. I may go 36 tRAS and 360 tRFC to lower voltage but I'll wait to get them under water. Do you have the same kit? What thermal pads did you buy to replace the EK ones? the ones that EK sent with the waterblock feel cheap. I I was thinking buying these:
> 
> http://[URL]https://www.amazon.com/...ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A15YNZR7YB053N&psc=1[/URL]











*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Does anyone know how to remove the G.Skill Trident Z Royal heat spreader safely?




www.overclock.net




I just used some old pads from my previous ram sticks which came from a 1080 Ti EK waterblock kit
I think @WayWayUp is correct that ram doesn't need that much cooling
My hardware is in my sig. Same kit 
I can pm my settings when I'm home from work but tRFC=328 and tRAS=36 from memory








*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Have you tried lowering the CPU overclock temporarily to see if it helps? Also have you run GSAT? What other tests do you use? I look forward to seeing your results :) Yeah, I did a bios flash and fresh windows install to take all variables out. My cpu was at stock and only ram overclocked...




www.overclock.net




Running 4500 with pretty much these settings now due to the summer heat


----------



## ViTosS

Ok so seems that my RAM kit is garbage or my IMC/mobo in a bin level, but the best I could get with SR [email protected] 1.35v kit was this, 1.52v DRAM, 1.225v IO and 1.300v SA (I think I can lower IO/SA but didn't bother atm):



















Yeah it is 53c temperature a lot I know, but I test with RAM fan at 20% to make sure it will be stable even in the hottest days ever during summer, so what I noticed was:

Couldn't get tRRD_L/S at 6/4 at the same DRAM voltage, so when I changed to 8/6 it was stable at the same voltage. Also I noticed with more ''relaxed'' timings with tWRRD_sg/dg at 30-26 (instead of 28-23) and tRDWR_sg/dg at 14-14 (instead of 12-12) I can get better stability with lower voltage, I coudn't get my previous OC [email protected] that passed Karhu 5h to pass TM5 in any way, tried everything, even with the RAM sticks at 40-42c I couldn't get stable, but I noticed it was taking longer to error with these 3 timings I listed before at AUTO than with them tightened, so it appears that my RAM OC is very sensitive to these timings in terms of temperatures/voltage needed.


----------



## treestar

Hello, rate my result. Mobo won't let me change training values or boot at 4000mhz, unless I'm missing something.


----------



## YaqY

Has anyone here had issues with posting higher frequencies on 2x16 bdie with the XII Apex. I have a 2x16 set of trident z 3200C14 bdie, frequencies to 4400 post first try, 4500 posts quite well but sometimes it rolls over the 69 post code a couple of times till it trains. With 4600 it is very inconsistent and struggles to post inconsistently rolling through 69 post code. I am on manual rtts and DLL and have 4400/4500 stable, 4600 is somewhat stable but needs work however i am wondering why the board struggles to post consistently. SA/IO isnt the issue and rtls/iols are tuned in manually.


----------



## munternet

YaqY said:


> Has anyone here had issues with posting higher frequencies on 2x16 bdie with the XII Apex. I have a 2x16 set of trident z 3200C14 bdie, frequencies to 4400 post first try, 4500 posts quite well but sometimes it rolls over the 69 post code a couple of times till it trains. With 4600 it is very inconsistent and struggles to post inconsistently rolling through 69 post code. I am on manual rtts and DLL and have 4400/4500 stable, 4600 is somewhat stable but needs work however i am wondering why the board struggles to post consistently. SA/IO isnt the issue and rtls/iols are tuned in manually.


Maybe you could put a rigbuilder in your sig, but it seems your results are pretty good  especially for 3200 sticks 
Only thing I can suggest is looking at my post a couple of posts up and look at the settings I have which boots 4600 100% of the time and occasionally 4700 which will boot most of the time once it's booted once.
Tertiaries seems fairly important for training consistently
I also set skews to 120-48-0 to help booting and stability

I see quite a few people just testing with TM5
I suggest running GSAT after each major change for a few minutes to ensure you aren't corrupting Windows at these frequencies. TM5 is not enough.
GSAT and TM5 are a pretty good combo but even after testing both of these for a couple of hours I can still crash out of BFV if the ambient temp rises and then have to bump vccsa


----------



## YaqY

munternet said:


> Maybe you could put a rigbuilder in your sig, but it seems your results are pretty good  especially for 3200 sticks
> Only thing I can suggest is looking at my post a couple of posts up and look at the settings I have which boots 4600 100% of the time and occasionally 4700 which will boot most of the time once it's booted once.
> Tertiaries seems fairly important for training consistently
> I also set skews to 120-48-0 to help booting and stability
> 
> I see quite a few people just testing with TM5
> I suggest running GSAT after each major change for a few minutes to ensure you aren't corrupting Windows at these frequencies. TM5 is not enough.
> GSAT and TM5 are a pretty good combo but even after testing both of these for a couple of hours I can still crash out of BFV if the ambient temp rises and then have to bump vccsa


I have ran tm5 and occt mem test issues with no issues. The main issue here is the booting inconsistency 4500+ makes no sense to me. I have tried many RTT combos too 80/48/48 seems to be the most stable. Is it possible that each stick/channel will need different RTTS per channel perhaps?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ViTosS said:


> Ok so seems that my RAM kit is garbage or my IMC/mobo in a bin level, but the best I could get with SR [email protected] 1.35v kit was this, 1.52v DRAM, 1.225v IO and 1.300v SA (I think I can lower IO/SA but didn't bother atm):
> 
> View attachment 2474024
> 
> 
> View attachment 2474025
> 
> 
> Yeah it is 53c temperature a lot I know, but I test with RAM fan at 20% to make sure it will be stable even in the hottest days ever during summer, so what I noticed was:
> 
> Couldn't get tRRD_L/S at 6/4 at the same DRAM voltage, so when I changed to 8/6 it was stable at the same voltage. Also I noticed with more ''relaxed'' timings with tWRRD_sg/dg at 30-26 (instead of 28-23) and tRDWR_sg/dg at 14-14 (instead of 12-12) I can get better stability with lower voltage, I coudn't get my previous OC [email protected] that passed Karhu 5h to pass TM5 in any way, tried everything, even with the RAM sticks at 40-42c I couldn't get stable, but I noticed it was taking longer to error with these 3 timings I listed before at AUTO than with them tightened, so it appears that my RAM OC is very sensitive to these timings in terms of temperatures/voltage needed.


53C is OK. My 3080 heats my ram up to 56C when gaming.

High temp affects stability. Your ram should be rock solid if you can test the ram stability with temp>50C.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> I have ran tm5 and occt mem test issues with no issues. The main issue here is the booting inconsistency 4500+ makes no sense to me. I have tried many RTT combos too 80/48/48 seems to be the most stable. Is it possible that each stick/channel will need different RTTS per channel perhaps?


If instability still persists, you can try to tune the rising&falling curves&offsets under skew control. Rising curve mainly controls the post, while falling curve mainly controls the ram test stability.

Posted dual rank 4700 several times with no problem.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If instability still persists, you can try to tune the rising&falling curves&offsets under skew control.
> 
> Posted dual rank 4700 several times with no problem.
> View attachment 2474087


Any recommendations on tuning the rising/falling slopes? I have touched those briefly but it seemed to make things unstable. I have also seen you seem to run different RTTS per channel, do you have a test methodology to do this? Perhaps testing 1 stick at a time.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> Any recommendations on tuning the rising/falling slopes? I have touched those briefly but it seemed to make things unstable. I have also seen you seem to run different RTTS per channel, do you have a test methodology to do this? Perhaps testing 1 stick at a time.


You can search for the Samsung manual. I suggest you can try (8-1) for both data rising and falling slopes.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> I have also seen you seem to run different RTTS per channel, do you have a test methodology to do this? Perhaps testing 1 stick at a time.


Different channels require different resistor levels to cancel the reflection. I just tried all the numbers out. The best way to do this is to use an oscilloscope. Basically channel A slot is worse than channel B slot, therefore you need more ohms to get a clearer signal in channel A. Channel B slot is better, you can put your worse ram stick in B slot, and use low ohms to provide more volt for the worse ram (Ohm's law).


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, that's a shame. I got 1 single error at 1h52m into a TM5 Anta777 Extreme test.. kept it running for another 2 hours, no additional errors.

Was only at 43.3 and 43.8c for the dimms.

Only 2 timings I adjusted were tRDRD_SG / tWRWR_SG from 8 to 7. Could a little more DRAM Voltage fix it? I'm only at 1.47v BIOS which is 1.464-1.460v after vdrop in HWINFO64..

Also the skews. I have always ran 80/40/40 as that is what is the most stable so far at 4200 and 4400Mhz but I wonder if changing them to for example 120-0-48 (MSI has them flipped compared to ASUS) would do any good for stability or higher frequency..

EDIT: Testing 1.48v now with the same timings and skews set to 120/0/48. 25 minutes in, no errors yet.

EDIT2: Seems to be fixed. 120/0/48 and a bit more DRAM voltage (1.48v) fixed it. Now all I gotta do is get my tWTR back to 7/2 which it did run before and maybe tighten up the tRDWR a bit more from the 15's they are at but that is very hard to do so far..


----------



## WayWayUp

was able to get latency down to 33.3
pretty happy with the results read and write are just under 70k

i can always try to loosen cas from 15 to 16 otherwise im stuck at 4533. No way i can get 4633 cl15 to post i tried messing around with voltages but no luck. Didnt expect it though as that would be ridiculous. Also have tRFC down to 260 although havent seen any benefit from 270 so i will most likely go back to that

I can probably get 4766 with looser primaries but thinking it's not worth it my goal was super low latency.
Whats every cas tradeoff worth? 200mhz for 1CL?

also, how do i get the ASrock riming config to work with windows 10 on a 10900k? opens with error and just shows my tREFI


----------



## Imprezzion

Use ATC 4.0.3. 4.0.4 doesn't work at all.

Too bad my tWTR doesn't wanna budge from 9/4 (controlled by tWRRD 29/24). I can boot 27/22 fine and make it run 7/2 but it errors like mad. 28/23 8/3 also errors, less bad, but even at 1.57v DRAM the errors aren't gone completely yet.

I have given up on those timings, same with tRDWR at 4400. They want 15, anything lower is errors within 15 minutes regardless of DIMM temps and voltage. 

tCWL does not POST lower then 14 but is also stable at 14. tWR POST 10 or 12 fine but also only stable at 14.

Literally the only timings that might respond to voltage and tweaking now are the primaries and RTL/IO even tho they are quite tight at 66/66/6/6 already. Every other timing secondary and tertiary is tested now and running at the absolute lowest possible setting for 2 hours of TM5 stable @ 4400C17.

Seeing as how I'm only at 1.48v DRAM I am going to try to drop my VCCSA and IO a bit and see if a ton of DRAM Voltage (1.6-1.7v) can get me 4400C16 or 4500C17.. I know it won't do it at 1.55v but yeah.. only 42c so far and I have a 140mm aimed at the DIMM's so #YOLO.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Use ATC 4.0.3. 4.0.4 doesn't work at all.
> 
> Too bad my tWTR doesn't wanna budge from 9/4 (controlled by tWRRD 29/24). I can boot 27/22 fine and make it run 7/2 but it errors like mad. 28/23 8/3 also errors, less bad, but even at 1.57v DRAM the errors aren't gone completely yet.
> 
> I have given up on those timings, same with tRDWR at 4400. They want 15, anything lower is errors within 15 minutes regardless of DIMM temps and voltage.
> 
> tCWL does not POST lower then 14 but is also stable at 14. tWR POST 10 or 12 fine but also only stable at 14.
> 
> Literally the only timings that might respond to voltage and tweaking now are the primaries and RTL/IO even tho they are quite tight at 66/66/6/6 already. Every other timing secondary and tertiary is tested now and running at the absolute lowest possible setting for 2 hours of TM5 stable @ 4400C17.
> 
> Seeing as how I'm only at 1.48v DRAM I am going to try to drop my VCCSA and IO a bit and see if a ton of DRAM Voltage (1.6-1.7v) can get me 4400C16 or 4500C17.. I know it won't do it at 1.55v but yeah.. only 42c so far and I have a 140mm aimed at the DIMM's so #YOLO.


This is why I like 1usmus' config more; anta777 works the RAM harder and longer, so singular errors can be thrown from some random cache/heat thing even though they realistically wouldn't cause any problems during real PC use. If one keeps chasing after 100% stability, they'll never be content or will have to make performance sacrifices that otherwise wouldn't be an issue since the PC is never stress tested 24/7 with the exact same instructions and use-cases.

Also, ATC 4.0.4 works for me just fine on W10. (MemTweakIt doesn't though, but it seems to be a known issue; apparently some recentish Windows Update broke it.)








In other news, I managed to lower VCCSA to 1.18V. Still testing; will try to pull it down even further. DLLBwEn at 2 or below causes cold boot issues, so Auto for now.


----------



## Imprezzion

Maybe ATC versions don't work on certain board brands? 4.0.4 doesn't work on my MSI Ace bit 4.0.3 does.

Well, yeah I don't really care much about 1 error at 1h52m but I got it to run without errors in the end with 1.480v. 

The other timings I mentioned just don't budge at all. Even 1.63v doesn't save it. I'll leave it here for 4400C17. It's as tight as it's ever going to be.


----------



## WayWayUp

1) How is tWR calculated? I have it set to 11 in the bios but it's showing as 17 in config

2) I set tCKE to auto and it was set to 7. should i set this to 0 ?

3) Any other inconsistencies or areas you think i can improve?


----------



## munternet

WayWayUp said:


> View attachment 2474241
> 
> 
> 1) How is tWR calculated? I have it set to 11 in the bios but it's showing as 17 in config
> 
> 2) I set tCKE to auto and it was set to 7. should i set this to 0 ?
> 
> 3) Any other inconsistencies or areas you think i can improve?


Pretty sure you leave tWR on auto and set using tWRPRE. 16 is a good value to aim for for max read, write and copy


----------



## WayWayUp

ty for pointing that out! i took a look at it and tried the following:










small gains but for the first time I've been able to hit 70k write. read is seemingly unchanged but aida 64 isnt the best at showing true performance gains from memory changes. I'm sure it would show in geekbench

seems like the bios adds 1 regardless. It seems like its 2x read to pre +1 = 13


----------



## Ichirou

WayWayUp said:


> ty for pointing that out! i took a look at it and tried the following:
> 
> View attachment 2474243
> 
> 
> small gains but for the first time I've been able to hit 70k write. read is seemingly unchanged but aida 64 isnt the best at showing true performance gains from memory changes. I'm sure it would show in geekbench
> 
> seems like the bios adds 1 regardless. It seems like its 2x read to pre +1 = 13


What kit do you have that lets you do 4500+ at CL15?


----------



## WayWayUp

F4-4400C16D-16GVK ripjaws
I just got them the other day. Pretty amazing so far but still tuning
Just tried 15 15 15 32 now with a long gaming session without issue. 
I dont know the limit of these sticks but i have it set at 100:133 so unfortunately the next step up is 4666 and 4800; which is pretty substantial. 

My SA and IO are relatively low i cant imagine i can get it to run without increasing voltage by a ton.
Maybe go 100:100 and try out 4600


----------



## Ichirou

WayWayUp said:


> F4-4400C16D-16GVK ripjaws
> I just got them the other day. Pretty amazing so far but still tuning
> Just tried 15 15 15 32 now with a long gaming session without issue.
> I dont know the limit of these sticks but i have it set at 100:133 so unfortunately the next step up is 4666 and 4800; which is pretty substantial.
> 
> My SA and IO are relatively low i cant imagine i can get it to run without increasing voltage by a ton.
> Maybe go 100:100 and try out 4600


The kit with 16-19-19-39 as the primaries? I didn't think Samsung B-die had non-constant primaries. Guess I was wrong then.


----------



## alexbrad

ViTosS said:


> View attachment 2474024
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it is 53c temperature a lot I know, but I test with RAM fan at 20% to make sure it will be stable even in the hottest days ever during summer, so what I noticed was:


I have the F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK kit, I have the same temps in gaming on DIMMs with XMP, or tight timings (16-16-16-36 @ 1.45V) or even 3200C14 with 1.35V...
I asked G.Skill support and they said anything below 70 or 80 is still fine...
Case is Meshify S2, pretty well ventilated.
Wonder is there is something wrong with this kit, don't trust their manufacturing process anymore, clearly not the same as in the good old days.


----------



## Imprezzion

Of course it will handle 80c just fine, just won't be stable at those temps on higher clocks / frequencies. Under 45c is generally recommended for optimal stability.

I'm sitting at 39-41c in games / TM5 at 1.48v and 45-46c at 1.60v in general. Above 49c my dimms get unstable at 4400C17.


----------



## WayWayUp

whats your favorite stress test, tm5?


----------



## Placekicker19

Herald said:


> Ram ocing is just trick as ***k. I was hitting a stonewall for 6 months not realizing what the issue is. Turns out, something on my setup (either ram / mobo or the cpu) doesn't like tCWL under 18. No matter the frequency, I can't even boot with tCWL on anything else other than 18. I even tried with 1.38v core 1.4sa and 1.35 1.55vdimm). Doesn't badge.. So I settled there I guess, what can you do


It i


ViTosS said:


> Ok so seems that my RAM kit is garbage or my IMC/mobo in a bin level, but the best I could get with SR [email protected] 1.35v kit was this, 1.52v DRAM, 1.225v IO and 1.300v SA (I think I can lower IO/SA but didn't bother atm):
> 
> View attachment 2474024
> 
> 
> View attachment 2474025
> 
> 
> Yeah it is 53c temperature a lot I know, but I test with RAM fan at 20% to make sure it will be stable even in the hottest days ever during summer, so what I noticed was:
> 
> Couldn't get tRRD_L/S at 6/4 at the same DRAM voltage, so when I changed to 8/6 it was stable at the same voltage. Also I noticed with more ''relaxed'' timings with tWRRD_sg/dg at 30-26 (instead of 28-23) and tRDWR_sg/dg at 14-14 (instead of 12-12) I can get better stability with lower voltage, I coudn't get my previous OC [email protected] that passed Karhu 5h to pass TM5 in any way, tried everything, even with the RAM sticks at 40-42c I couldn't get stable, but I noticed it was taking longer to error with these 3 timings I listed before at AUTO than with them tightened, so it appears that my RAM OC is very sensitive to these timings in terms of temperatures/voltage needed.


I cant get tRRD_L/S stable at 6/4 either at 4500+ on my 3600 cl14 kit. I can do 4600 cl17 however. 
If you raise dimm voltage can you get 4600 cl17? Im not sure you have much temp headroom to increase voltages. 

Ram prices have went up drastically in the last month. I thought about getting a 4400 c16 kit, but it now cost about as much as the 32gb 4266 cl17 kit did a month ago. I still have a faulty kit of 4400 cl19 I need to rma.


----------



## Placekicker19

When my ram gets super unstable from tweaking and I bsod, clearing cmos and re entering timings that were once stable does not work, i can however run ram at default clocks, the once stable ram overclocks instantly bsod though and 99.9% of the bsods/crashes are at boot. It seems the only thing that gains my stability back is, unplugging the psu, letting it sit for awhile to drain all power, clearing cmos, and reinstalling mb bios. Sometimes my once stable ram clock, becomes unstable from just having my pc shutdown for a few days too, ill then have to repeat the same steps to regain stability. I also have to repeat these steps everytime i try different ram sticks. S3 power state is enabled, so the ram is still receiving power/maintaining settings even with the pc shutdown. Ive tried so many things and it really is frustrating. I just dont understand how I can be perfectly stable and just having the pc shut down a few days borks my system and clearing cmos and re entering once stable timing now bsods/crashes on windows boot, the only solution is the steps I listed above.

80-0-48 (wr/nom/park) work great at 4500mhz and under. When going to 4600mhz those rtt settings wont even train, im forced to use auto to even get the board to train. Evga boards may be capable, but are plagued with constant bugs and stability issues.


----------



## Hequaqua

Just playing around.....not too bad for a mixed match set....3466mhz(16gb)+3600mhz(32gb) running at 3866 using the XMP for the 3466 set.


----------



## Ichirou

alexbrad said:


> I have the F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK kit, I have the same temps in gaming on DIMMs with XMP, or tight timings (16-16-16-36 @ 1.45V) or even 3200C14 with 1.35V...
> I asked G.Skill support and they said anything below 70 or 80 is still fine...
> Case is Meshify S2, pretty well ventilated.
> Wonder is there is something wrong with this kit, don't trust their manufacturing process anymore, clearly not the same as in the good old days.


Those temps are perfectly fine... with kits set to XMP. But manually overclocking is something else completely different, as it usually involves tweaking timings that are heat-sensitive.


Placekicker19 said:


> When my ram gets super unstable from tweaking and I bsod, clearing cmos and re entering timings that were once stable does not work, i can however run ram at default clocks, the once stable ram overclocks instantly bsod though and 99.9% of the bsods/crashes are at boot. It seems the only thing that gains my stability back is, unplugging the psu, letting it sit for awhile to drain all power, clearing cmos, and reinstalling mb bios. Sometimes my once stable ram clock, becomes unstable from just having my pc shutdown for a few days too, ill then have to repeat the same steps to regain stability. I also have to repeat these steps everytime i try different ram sticks. S3 power state is enabled, so the ram is still receiving power/maintaining settings even with the pc shutdown. Ive tried so many things and it really is frustrating. I just dont understand how I can be perfectly stable and just having the pc shut down a few days borks my system and clearing cmos and re entering once stable timing now bsods/crashes on windows boot, the only solution is the steps I listed above.
> 
> 80-0-48 (wr/nom/park) work great at 4500mhz and under. When going to 4600mhz those rtt settings wont even train, im forced to use auto to even get the board to train. Evga boards may be capable, but are plagued with constant bugs and stability issues.


Just unplugging the power cord/turning off the PSU power switch is enough. Let it sit for a few minutes. You don't have to do that much. The CMOS battery alone isn't enough to keep the RAM powered, so it will flush itself clean in time. (I've personally done a lot of this because of this issue, and it is legit; if the RAM isn't flushed, errors will build up in TM5.) You may want to look into setting a hard value for DLLBwEn instead (set it to something high). With it on Auto, some motherboards can train it to a bad value that'll cause instability. (In my case, if it trains to 1~2, I get BSODs at boot.)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

WayWayUp said:


> ty for pointing that out! i took a look at it and tried the following:
> 
> View attachment 2474243
> 
> 
> small gains but for the first time I've been able to hit 70k write. read is seemingly unchanged but aida 64 isnt the best at showing true performance gains from memory changes. I'm sure it would show in geekbench
> 
> seems like the bios adds 1 regardless. It seems like its 2x read to pre +1 = 13


You set odd tCWL so that's why you got 13. On apex you just need to leave twr to auto.


----------



## Placekicker19

Ichirou said:


> Those temps are perfectly fine... with kits set to XMP. But manually overclocking is something else completely different, as it usually involves tweaking timings that are heat-sensitive.
> 
> Just unplugging the power cord/turning off the PSU power switch is enough. Let it sit for a few minutes. You don't have to do that much. The CMOS battery alone isn't enough to keep the RAM powered, so it will flush itself clean in time. (I've personally done a lot of this because of this issue, and it is legit; if the RAM isn't flushed, errors will build up in TM5.) You may want to look into setting a hard value for DLLBwEn instead (set it to something high). With it on Auto, some motherboards can train it to a bad value that'll cause instability. (In my case, if it trains to 1~2, I get BSODs at boot.)


Ill give that a try next time thanks. Is DLLBwEn a ram timing or setting somewhere in windows, im not seeing in my bios but maybe it has a different name.


----------



## Ichirou

Placekicker19 said:


> Ill give that a try next time thanks. Is DLLBwEn a ram timing or setting somewhere in windows, im not seeing in my bios but maybe it has a different name.


Probably depends on the mobo/BIOS; if you have a search feature, try it. It should be part of the memory settings though. DLL is a given, rest might differ.


----------



## munternet

Still plenty of people asking advice that don't have their PC parts listed in their signature. Makes it more difficult for others to answer questions accurately


----------



## Thrakis

I'm struggling at bit with fine-tuning of my ram bricks (F4-4000C17-16GTRS on aM9H) 
Is there any description or hint list for errors occurring in different tests of TestMem5 with Exrteme1 @anta777 config? 
Thanks in advance


----------



## munternet

Thrakis said:


> I'm struggling at bit with fine-tuning of my ram bricks (F4-4000C17-16GTRS on aM9H)
> Is there any description or hint list for errors occurring in different tests of TestMem5 with Exrteme1 @anta777 config?
> Thanks in advance


There is an outline for some of the errors in the basic instructional in my sig but you may have to use a different test to identify them due to the test numbering sequence as KedarWolf pointed out 
You may even be able to compare the config files to check what the original test numbers were if you really want to stick with Extreme1
You could post up some details here like a configurator shot to see if it's something obvious?


----------



## Thrakis

Thanks for response @munternet 
Seems to be stable with following settings after few runs of extreme1 and 1usmus_v3 - ram temps maxed at 42*C
Skews 80-48-48
Data slopes rising and falling 8 and offset 0, other in auto.


















Tried to tighten even more to check where the limits are here, which gives mentioned errors in testmem5.









Thanks in advance


----------



## Ichirou

Thrakis said:


> Thanks for response @munternet
> Seems to be stable with following settings after few runs of extreme1 and 1usmus_v3 - ram temps maxed at 42*C
> Skews 80-48-48
> Data slopes rising and falling 8 and offset 0, other in auto.
> View attachment 2474371
> 
> View attachment 2474372
> 
> 
> 
> Tried to tighten even more to check where the limits are here, which gives mentioned errors in testmem5.
> View attachment 2474374
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


You tightened tRCD+tRP and raised tREFI. Very likely a temp issue, or VCCIO not at sweet spot. What are the actual error numbers in TM5?


----------



## warbucks

Placekicker19 said:


> New 3600 cl 14 16gb kit. 4500 c17 tight stable.
> 68794 read
> 69932 write
> 64655 copy
> 35.0 latency


Full set of Timings? Got a screenshot of ASRock? I just received the same kit today.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Thrakis said:


> Thanks for response @munternet
> Seems to be stable with following settings after few runs of extreme1 and 1usmus_v3 - ram temps maxed at 42*C
> Skews 80-48-48
> Data slopes rising and falling 8 and offset 0, other in auto.
> View attachment 2474371
> 
> View attachment 2474372
> 
> 
> 
> Tried to tighten even more to check where the limits are here, which gives mentioned errors in testmem5.
> View attachment 2474374
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


80-48-48 seems for dual rank. You may try 80-240-0 for single rank (8GB b-die sticks).


----------



## Arctucas

28GB DIMMs?


----------



## Ichirou

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 80-48-48 seems for dual rank. You may try 80-240-0 for single rank (8GB b-die sticks).


I think I've reached the limits of my IMC with 4x16 GB SR DIMMs, but what do you think I could test for skews to see if I can (possibly) push past the frequency barrier I have? (Or maybe further tighten the primaries?)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> I think I've reached the limits of my IMC with 4x16 GB SR DIMMs, but what do you think I could test for skews to see if I can (possibly) push past the frequency barrier I have? (Or maybe further tighten the primaries?)
> View attachment 2474389


You may tighten some of your sub timings, like the tRFC, tRDRD&tWRWR, tRDWR, and test each stick using the same slot. This way you can find the best RTTs for your ram.

Micron 16GB SR should be able to do tRFC 290ns at 1.5V.


----------



## Thrakis

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 80-48-48 seems for dual rank. You may try 80-240-0 for single rank (8GB b-die sticks).


Thanks @OLDFATSHEEP for response.
WR=80, PARK=240, NOM=0 right?
On 4133 C15 @1,49V VIO,VSA=1,27 I boot 1 on 5-10 attempts. Once I got throught, single 1usmus_v3 run showed no errors.
Tried 80-120-0 next, much easier to boot, like 50/50. Single 1usmus_v3 again with no errors, but anta777 extreme1 after 2h came with 86errors in most tests.
Feeling, that I'm perhaps not close enough to the limit, in order to see the effect of RTTs.
Gonna try a bit more.
Regards


----------



## Thrakis

Ichirou said:


> You tightened tRCD+tRP and raised tREFI. Very likely a temp issue, or VCCIO not at sweet spot. What are the actual error numbers in TM5?


Thanks @Ichirou for response 
I installed ram cooler now, so the max temps reach 36-37*C.
Vccio, hmm, gonna try.
Got error in test 2 on anta777 with the quasi-stable config at 4000C15.


----------



## di3t

g.skill trident z f4-3200c14d-32gtrs
help me please
need stability and fast config for 10900k
evga dark z490 
thanks


----------



## Imprezzion

di3t said:


> g.skill trident z f4-3200c14d-32gtrs
> help me please
> need stability and fast config for 10900k
> evga dark z490
> thanks


Start here: IO 1.25v, SA 1.30v. RAM 1.50v.

4200Mhz 16-17-17-35-340-2T, 14 tWR, 14 tCWL, 4/6 tRRD_S/L, 16 tFAW, 8 tRTP, 4 tCKE, rest Auto.

Disable PPD.

120-48-0 or 80-40-40 for the RTT's.

RTL / IO I don't know how EVGA BIOS sets those but for MSI I use Initial 65/65/1/1 Offset 23/23 or 23/24 if IO is more then 1 apart.

This is what I use as a baseline for any DR B-Die kit and I have never clocked a kit that wouldn't run this as a baseline. Even a Corsair 3466C16 B-Die bottom of the barrel bin kit could manage this so a well binned 3200C14 kit should have no issues clearing these settings easily.

Obviously tweak tertiaries yourself and RTL IO as well.


----------



## morph.

I would like some help please, I really want to squeeze my latency down further... My kit is 2x16 dual rank b-die 3600 c14 1.45v Gskill. I feel like no matter what I've tried I've hit the wall at 4200 and I can't get it to be stable at 16-16-16 flat however 16-17-17 seems to be the best I can do. I've also used Skews 120-48-0 and tweaked RTL/IOL timings.

Quick update from post dropped tRAS to 35 & tRFC to 300 and this manages to knock 0.2ns off Aida to 37.9ns will test stability tonight... I know tRAS 34 isn't stable for me.

When pushing the next jump in frequencies 4266/4300/4400 at say 17-17-17 admittedly I don't think I've tried 17-18-18. I can't seem to get much stability even with SA/IO right up at around 1.35-1.36v.... I've kinda left dram around 1.5v as I top out around 54 degrees (passive cooling no direct fan blowing on it but has semi-decent airflow)










Reference of what I mean with passive cooling:


----------



## bwana

@morph. where is the mainboard power supply cable?


----------



## morph.

bwana said:


> @morph. where is the mainboard power supply cable?


Next to the ram, behind the flow meter / above the pcie power.


----------



## Pepillo

morph. said:


> View attachment 2474538


Beautiful. I have that case with those same radiators and distro plate, a very similar configuration. It's caught my eye that the rear fan looks like it's intake, just like the rest of the radiators fans. I've got all six of the radiators fans intake, but my rear fan it's outake. Are you doing better the way you have it? Did you run tests?

Thanks


----------



## morph.

Pepillo said:


> Beautiful. I have that case with those same radiators and distro plate, a very similar configuration. It's caught my eye that the rear fan looks like it's intake, just like the rest of the radiators fans. I've got all six of the radiators fans intake, but my rear fan it's outake. Are you doing better the way you have it? Did you run tests?
> 
> Thanks


Thankyou,with me the concept was 4 intake to maintain pressure and 3 exhaust. I decided to flip the back fan over as intake to bring some fresh cool air to feed the top rads as well as inducing positive pressure and hopefully a little bit more airflow to cool the ram. My top fans are exhaust.


----------



## Pepillo

morph. said:


> Thankyou,with me the concept was 4 intake to maintain pressure and 3 exhaust. I decided to flip the back fan over as intake to bring some fresh cool air to feed the top rads as well as inducing positive pressure and hopefully a little bit more airflow to cool the ram. My top fans are exhaust.


I understand. I tried and I did better with the two radiators intake and that's why I put my rear fan as outtake. It also looks like the settings that Lian Li thought because it carries the filters on both, up and down. In any case, it is best to try and decide.


----------



## SoldierRBT

morph. said:


> I would like some help please, I really want to squeeze my latency down further... My kit is 2x16 dual rank b-die 3600 c14 1.45v Gskill. I feel like no matter what I've tried I've hit the wall at 4200 and I can't get it to be stable at 16-16-16 flat however 16-17-17 seems to be the best I can do. I've also used Skews 120-48-0 and tweaked RTL/IOL timings.
> 
> Quick update from post dropped tRAS to 35 & tRFC to 300 and this manages to knock 0.2ns off Aida to 37.9ns will test stability tonight... I know tRAS 34 isn't stable for me.
> 
> When pushing the next jump in frequencies 4266/4300/4400 at say 17-17-17 admittedly I don't think I've tried 17-18-18. I can't seem to get much stability even with SA/IO right up at around 1.35-1.36v.... I've kinda left dram around 1.5v as I top out around 54 degrees (passive cooling no direct fan blowing on it but has semi-decent airflow)
> 
> View attachment 2474537
> 
> 
> Reference of what I mean with passive cooling:
> View attachment 2474538


Beautiful build. I think you already did a great OC and should be plenty fast in gaming. Those temps are okay for daily use but if you want to push them further, they need active cooling like a 120mm fan. Try lowering DRAM voltage to 1.45v and set DRAM VVT to 0.775v or 0.800v. It helps for stability.


----------



## Falkentyne

Betroz said:


> Geez how old are you kid...
> RAM speed depends a lot on the IMC in your CPU, so not everybody can get 4400++ Mhz on the memory. If you are not willing to buy better hardware, then tweak what you got and be happy with that.


You realize you're talking to reachthesky, right? If you didn't tell from his post about losing stability from aib's intentionally tanking his performance after coming online to post a benchmark score, well...  I blocked him. Haven't even read posts here for a month and I come and it's outright Fortnite worthy cringe...
Anyway can't wait for the fun and games with Z590 to start.


----------



## morph.

Pepillo said:


> I understand. I tried and I did better with the two radiators intake and that's why I put my rear fan as outtake. It also looks like the settings that Lian Li thought because it carries the filters on both, up and down. In any case, it is best to try and decide.


What was the temperature differences for you? I guess I was conscious of the fact that a single exhaust fan might not be enough.... But now you got me curious haha.



SoldierRBT said:


> Beautiful build. I think you already did a great OC and should be plenty fast in gaming. Those temps are okay for daily use but if you want to push them further, they need active cooling like a 120mm fan. Try lowering DRAM voltage to 1.45v and set DRAM VVT to 0.775v or 0.800v. It helps for stability.


Thank you very much, yeah with DRAM voltage it's pretty much maxing it out perhaps i can change the fan above my ram to intake would somewhat be actively cooling the ram then. 

Ah yeah good old VTT I could try giving it a bit more juice.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> That's a risky way of approaching RAM overclocking, but you were lucky, so it's not a big deal I suppose.
> Definitely wouldn't recommend anyone else doing that, though. If the OC really isn't stable, you risk corrupting the system.


This is fine if you're stress testing your CPU! Or you can just man mode it and run Minecraft and look for Parity WHEA's!
I use Warzone (or COD Ground War) to stress test my 3090, for example.
However I agree with the others: This is very irresponsible if you're stress testing RAM. You can pass Battlefield 5 easily and bomb with 112k FFT, Large FFT or TM5 anta777 with tons of errors, even just from a RAM temp threshold from being borderline. (Then imagine if you have a 3090 FE puking heat on your RGB vomit sticks...).

The best thing to do when stress testing your RAM is just to sleep (do it at night), or play on a laptop or a second computer (or ...do your day job).


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> Ah, you probably haven't seen my readout yet. Posted it a few times but it's probably buried a few pages back by now. Here:
> View attachment 2472891
> 
> (I already have my kit tightened as much (and as practical) as possible. tWR at 10 actually added 0.1ns in latency, so I lifted it back up to 12. tRRD_S down to 1 made it worse, so it's at 3. And tWTR_S is as I said. I could set tWRRD_dd down to 0, but it only made things worse. Since I have Micron, tRFC naturally sucks, and I've already balanced it out with tREFI for best heat-performance ratio.)
> 
> The RTL/IOL is already the best I could set via manual. Offsets are the default 21-21 and Delay is the default 14-14 (I haven't touched them yet). The reason why I asked was because I'm wondering if I could squeeze the IOLs any further via the offsets. If I wanted to drop them further, would I increase or decrease the offsets? Or do I set the IOLs to 0 and test an offset of like, 30-29? (And I guess I'll have to test out the RFR Delay myself.)


Shouldn't twrrd_dr be set to 5 or 6? There was some discussion about that a long time ago. What benefit did you get from setting all the different rank values to "0"??

"dd" being set to 0 only works for 2x16 GB sticks since that's "different dimm", rather than "different rank", so for 2x16 GB, both RAM sticks are going to be in the same dimm channel (dimm 1 usually), so "different dimm" won't be used. Dual channel 2x16=2 dimms in the same dimm bank, different ranks (since its dual rank). Now, same group and different group...not touching that.


----------



## morph.

Really wanting to get my latency lower or run-flat 17s at least... without crazy voltages....


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Really wanting to get my latency lower or run-flat 17s at least... without crazy voltages....
> View attachment 2474615


worse than my 4266 16-20-20-38.

Try tXP=4 and PPD=0.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> worse than my 4266 16-20-20-38.
> 
> Try tXP=4 and PPD=0.


That's already been done... Along with Skews at 128-48-0 and RTL/IOL's.

tCWL won't go lower than16 here either. Not sure where or how I can shave latency unless I increase my uncore ratio from 4.8 to 4.9


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> That's already been done... Along with Skews at 128-48-0 and RTL/IOL's.
> 
> tCWL won't go lower than16 here either. Not sure where or how I can shave latency unless I increase my uncore ratio from 4.8 to 4.9


Have you tried tRDRD_sg=7? Sometimes tRDRD_sg=6 causes problems on DR sticks.

Also, you can exit other programs, such as HWinfo64 and fan controller, when testing the ram.


----------



## Imprezzion

My frequency is the same, most of my secondary and tertiaries are as well except I run 14 tWR and 14 tCWL and 4 tCKE (if that even does anything with PPD 0). Only major differences are my primaries which are 17-17-17-36-330-2T and my RTL/IO which is 66/66/6/6 so, I can compare reasonably accurately.

With 5.0 core 4.7 cache I can get as low as 36.3ns after closing all other programs. If I run my normal 24/7 OC of 5.2 core 5.0 cache it just about hits 35.9/36.0 in almost every run I do (10 in a row usually).

My guess is it's not actually the RAM causing this for you but more Windows / background tasks. Even running 17-18-18 shouldn't be this "slow".


----------



## morph.

Hrmm okay with most of my background apps closed I’m getting around 37.2ns :/

will see if I can do twr & twcl 14
will try rdrd_sg 7 later.


----------



## Pepillo

morph. said:


> What was the temperature differences for you? I guess I was conscious of the fact that a single exhaust fan might not be enough.... But now you got me curious haha.


I don't remember. I know when I tried it coming from a Corsair 540 with a 280+140 with the two 360s I worsened temperatures. That was the reason that encouraged me to try the two intakes and the temperatures improved markedly in my case.


----------



## morph.

The memtest seemed good overnight 37.2 ns though  , might hit up TM5 / OCCT next:


----------



## Arctucas

morph. said:


> The memtest seemed good overnight 37.2 ns though  , might hit up TM5 / OCCT next:
> View attachment 2474715


What is that application by 1usmus?


----------



## Imprezzion

TestMem5 with 1usmus config loaded. It's in the OP.


----------



## morph.

Arctucas said:


> What is that application by 1usmus?


As Imprezzion advised. It's part of the ryzen calculator suite under membench -> memtest.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> The memtest seemed good overnight 37.2 ns though  , might hit up TM5 / OCCT next:
> View attachment 2474715


Micron 2*32GB 4400MHz. Your primaries should lead to a latency much lower than this. Maybe test it in safe mode?


----------



## Arctucas

morph. said:


> As Imprezzion advised. It's part of the ryzen calculator sweet under membench -> memtest.


Did not realize it worked on Intel.

Thanks


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Micron 2*32GB 4400MHz. Your primaries should lead to a latency much lower than this. Maybe test it in safe mode?
> View attachment 2474727


Hrmm yeah maybe worth a try... Noticed your IOL's are 8 instead of 7 too... however, your uncore is 5.1 vs my 4.9


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Hrmm yeah maybe worth a try... Noticed your IOL's are 8 instead of 7 too... however, your uncore is 5.1 vs my 4.9


b-die 4400 17-18 imo should be ~36ns. 4400 16-17 can lead you to 34.x ns.

I have posted the comparison some weeks ago, ring 51 doesn't matter too much, only 0.x ns difference.

ring 51x








ring 47x


----------



## SgtRotty

Falkentyne said:


> This is fine if you're stress testing your CPU! Or you can just man mode it and run Minecraft and look for Parity WHEA's!
> I use Warzone (or COD Ground War) to stress test my 3090, for example.
> However I agree with the others: This is very irresponsible if you're stress testing RAM. You can pass Battlefield 5 easily and bomb with 112k FFT, Large FFT or TM5 anta777 with tons of errors, even just from a RAM temp threshold from being borderline. (Then imagine if you have a 3090 FE puking heat on your RGB vomit sticks...).
> 
> The best thing to do when stress testing your RAM is just to sleep (do it at night), or play on a laptop or a second computer (or ...do your day job).


I didn't mean for my method that ive used to be the way its supposed to be done. I can play all my games that I normally play and im fine with my stability. However, ive been messing with the testmem5 configs, I can pass all configs except Ollie with only 1 error over 40 cycles. Test #12 errored


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> b-die 4400 17-18 imo should be ~36ns. 4400 16-17 can lead you to 34.x ns.
> 
> I have posted the comparison some weeks ago, ring 51 doesn't matter too much, only 0.x ns difference.
> 
> ring 51x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ring 47x


 Yeah it's pretty much my expectation to be around 36ns... its odd I'll check via safemode and see what I get...


----------



## morph.

@OLDFATSHEEP so... in safemode it gave me better bandwidth but 39ns from 37.2ns whack...


----------



## Thrakis

Quick question. 
What's the trick with changing of the TM5 config file? 
If I try to change for instance amount of cycles in notepad, TM5 would start with default config kind of "degrading" somehow the config file from 3562 to like 1600.
Is there some checksum at the end or something?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## KedarWolf

Thrakis said:


> Quick question.
> What's the trick with changing of the TM5 config file?
> If I try to change for instance amount of cycles in notepad, TM5 would start with default config kind of "degrading" somehow the config file from 3562 to like 1600.
> Is there some checksum at the end or something?
> Thanks in advance.


You need to right-click the file, uncheck Read Only, make the changes, make it Read Only again, fixed!!


----------



## Thrakis

KedarWolf said:


> You need to right-click the file, uncheck Read Only, make the changes, make it Read Only again, fixed!!


Thanks a lot  The file was already non read-only in the version I had, but making in read-only after changing the param helped as intended


----------



## Gen.

Hello everyone. I made a selection of programs for setting up a PC. Use it if you have any questions - ask. Testing Programs.zip


----------



## 7empe

Hey,

I am looking for your help regarding 4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 MHz overclocking on i9-10900KF & Maximus Extreme XII. I got solid stable 4133 MHz 16-17-17-34-2T with VCCIO/VCCSA/VDRAM respectively set to 1.28/1.30/1.50V however cannot move to 4200 MHz due to tWRWR_dg being unstable at 4, 5 and 6... It is solid stable with 7, but as you know this hits write/copy speeds terribly. I tried increasing VCCSA up to 1.4V, going up with tRCDtRP up to 19, tCL up one tick to 17 - no way to stabilize tWRWR_dg back at 4. May too tight RTL/IO-L setting (found by mobo with Maximus Tweak Mode 2) be the cause? Any suggestions?


----------



## morph.

7empe said:


> Hey,
> 
> I am looking for your help regarding 4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 MHz overclocking on i9-10900KF & Maximus Extreme XII. I got solid stable 4133 MHz 16-17-17-34-2T with VCCIO/VCCSA/VDRAM respectively set to 1.28/1.30/1.50V however cannot move to 4200 MHz due to tWRWR_dg being unstable at 4, 5 and 6... It is solid stable with 7, but as you know this hits write/copy speeds terribly. I tried increasing VCCSA up to 1.4V, going up with tRCDtRP up to 19, tCL up one tick to 17 - no way to stabilize tWRWR_dg back at 4. May too tight RTL/IO-L setting (found by mobo with Maximus Tweak Mode 2) be the cause? Any suggestions?
> View attachment 2474780


your IO-L's should be 7, not 6, from my experience 6 introduces instability. As a side note when you switched your tWRWR_dg your IO-L's were more inline with 7.


----------



## 7empe

morph. said:


> your IOL's should be 7, not 6, from my experience 6 introduces instability.


But 6/5/6/6 is perfectly stable at 10000% coverege. The 4200 MHz has 7/7/8/7.


----------



## morph.

7empe said:


> But 6/5/6/6 is perfectly stable at 10000% coverege. The 4200 MHz has 7/7/8/7.


okay then don't try it and proceed being stuck


----------



## 7empe

morph. said:


> okay then don't try it and proceed being stuck


You said *"your IOL's should be 7, not 6"*. Where do I have 6? I can see 7/7/8/7


----------



## morph.

7empe said:


> You said *"your IOL's should be 7, not 6"*. Where do I have 6? I can see 7/7/8/7


your left atc screenshot?


----------



## 7empe

morph. said:


> your left atc screenshot?


Left is stable af. Right is stable too, but only with tWRWR_dg 7. This is the only difference between those two. Any attempt to get down with tWRWR_dg (to 6,5,4) causes almost immediate error in memtest. My question is what may have direct influence on tWRWR_dg that going from 4133 MHz to 4200 MHz requires latency uptick from 4 to 7?


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> b-die 4400 17-18 imo should be ~36ns. 4400 16-17 can lead you to 34.x ns.
> 
> I have posted the comparison some weeks ago, ring 51 doesn't matter too much, only 0.x ns difference.
> 
> ring 51x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ring 47x


Booted up windows normally closed any background apps and this time services... Managed 36.8ns I suspect it was armourcrate services in the background!


----------



## Imprezzion

That is pretty in-line with what I get. 36.3-36.5 but with 17-17-17 primaries. So yeah, should be fine there.


----------



## morph.

Imprezzion said:


> That is pretty in-line with what I get. 36.3-36.5 but with 17-17-17 primaries. So yeah, should be fine there.


Yeah I’m pleased with that thanks! Would of preferred flat 17s but for some reason just couldn’t find stability with it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Booted up windows normally closed any background apps and this time services... Managed 36.8ns I suspect it was armourcrate services in the background!
> 
> View attachment 2474789


looks much better. fan controller apps cause lots of issues. I usually prefer not to install them. Also razer software may increase about 2ns latency.


----------



## Hequaqua

Well it appears the NIC took a dump on my Gigabyte Aorus Z490 Pro AX....this is the second Gigabyte board I've had issues with in as many months. Time to switch up I guess. 

I can RMA this one back to the vendor, so I ordered this one instead:

Maximus XII Hero

Anyone have any experience with this board?


----------



## munternet

morph. said:


> Yeah I’m pleased with that thanks! Would of preferred flat 17s but for some reason just couldn’t find stability with it.


Does your set do 4400-16-17-17-36 as many of the sets that came out post Z490 will do or has this been asked already?
Did you shut any keyboard and mouse software down too? I found Corsair apps especially taxing on latency


----------



## morph.

munternet said:


> Does your set do 4400-16-17-17-36 as many of the sets that came out post Z490 will do or has this been asked already?
> Did you shut any keyboard and mouse software down too? I found Corsair apps especially taxing on latency


Would that be for 8GB SR or 16GB DR?
Nope couldn't run 36 without erroring 37 seems to be error-free.
Similar thing when I was at 4200 16-17-17 couldn't run tRAS 34 had to be 35.

tRAS doesn't scale with voltage right?


----------



## munternet

morph. said:


> Would that be for 8GB SR or 16GB DR?
> Nope couldn't run 36 without erroring 37 seems to be error-free.
> Similar thing when I was at 4200 16-17-17 couldn't run tRAS 34 had to be 35.
> 
> tRAS doesn't scale with voltage right?


2x16 DR listed in my sig. Yours are similar right?
I wouldn't get too hung up on tRAS, just what errors the least to start
What I did find was that my tertiaries had to be specific to run higher frequencies without wanting to error with GSAT and Extreme. You can see my tWRRD_dr likes 5 and tWRWR_dr likes 9. I had to get it on the edge of stable and try all the combos with both tests to find the ONLY number they liked
I also loosened off some other timings and put tWR and tWRPRE on auto
Some things are probably a bit loose but I would rather that than risk dropping out of BFV on a hot day 
Here is a shot of the 4500c16 running as daily now


----------



## morph.

munternet said:


> 2x16 DR listed in my sig. Yours are similar right?
> I wouldn't get too hung up on tRAS, just what errors the least to start
> What I did find was that my tertiaries had to be specific to run higher frequencies without wanting to error with GSAT and Extreme. You can see my tWRRD_dr likes 5 and tWRWR_dr likes 9. I had to get it on the edge of stable and try all the combos with both tests to find the ONLY number they liked
> I also loosened off some other timings and put tWR and tWRPRE on auto
> Some things are probably a bit loose but I would rather that than risk dropping out of BFV on a hot day
> Here is a shot of the 4500c16 running as daily now
> View attachment 2474907


Interesting whats your aida results? Wondering if it's worth me going to 4500... if anything id love to get my 2 other primary timings down to 17 instead of 18.

My kit is the G.skill F4-3600C14D-32GTRS Trident Z Royal DDR4-3600MHz CL14-15-15-35 1.45V32GB (2x16GB)

F4-3600C14D-32GTRS-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


----------



## munternet

morph. said:


> Interesting whats your aida results? Wondering if its worth me going to 4500... if anything id love to get my 2 other primary timings down to 17 instead of 18.
> 
> Mine was the G.skill 3600 C14 royals 2x16 1.45v


It took me a while to realize my sticks prefer 16-17-17-36 but once I started tuning around that it made things easier. Your sticks must be quite new?
Maybe start at a lower frequency with 16-17-17-3x to find your tertiaries etc then work your way up?
This is not tuned but it games well


----------



## morph.

yeah, they are a fairly new release bin etc... I think 16-17-17 was where I was at with 4200 and at 4400 I couldn't be stable but might be worth re-trying I've tuned most my secondaries and tertiaries now.

wow, that latency is very nice. What are your 3 voltages?


----------



## munternet

Voltages are on the pic a couple of posts back
If you got 4200-16-17-17-3x stable the next step would be to up the frequency and check/set the skews with a slightly unstable setup. Mainly with GSAT but also TM5. Then raise frequency to error and set the tertiaries. Don't just try to lower the dr's go for max stability and then maybe raise the frequency/voltages again
If you don't get stability right it's hard to tell if the voltages are helping
Well, that's my method anyway


----------



## morph.

munternet said:


> Voltages are on the pic a couple of posts back
> If you got 4200-16-17-17-3x stable the next step would be to up the frequency and check/set the skews with a slightly unstable setup. Mainly with GSAT but also TM5. Then raise frequency to error and set the tertiaries. Don't just try to lower the dr's go for max stability and then maybe raise the frequency/voltages again
> If you don't get stability right it's hard to tell if the voltages are helping
> Well, that's my method anyway


Wow those are some upper limit voltages, do you have active cooling on the dimms?

yeah I’ve done RTL IOL & skews


----------



## munternet

morph. said:


> Wow those are some upper limit voltages, do you have active cooling on the dimms?
> 
> yeah I’ve done RTL IOL & skews


Oh yeah, active cooling 
Got the EK Monarchs
Active cooling is great for ram tuning. Never seen 40°c 
I could possibly lower the voltages a little. I've been a bit busy so I haven't actually tried


----------



## Salve1412

munternet said:


> Here is a shot of the 4500c16 running as daily now
> View attachment 2474907


Just out of curiosity, have you ever run by any chance Prime95 112k fixed in place (AVX2/AVX disabled) with this RAM and CPU overclock (let's say for about 1 hour)? I'm on similar settings (of course RAM is different and board is not the RAM overclocker goddess Apex lol) and I noticed that at 4400 16-17-17-35, with my 10900K at 5.2GHz Cache ratio 49, I can consistently pass any other test (e.g. 4 hours of GSAT and 4h Anta777 TM5 for RAM or 2 hours of Small-FFT Prime95 for CPU) but still get random crashing threads on Prime 112k fixed: I probably have to adjust Vcore and increase VCCIO/VCCSA, but I would be curious to know if you can pass it with no issues at all.


----------



## Imprezzion

I got bored working from home again hehe... Jumped back into memory tweaking lol.

I am trying to get 4500Mhz stable, so far I am quite close at 4500 17-18-18-38-370-2T, quite loose tRFC and tRAS just to be sure. Subs mostly Auto for now, RTL / IO very loose like 72/72/13/13 (Auto). 16 tWR 16 tCWL 8 tRTP.

I am at 1.6v DRAM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO. Lower gives errors within 10 minutes of TM5 or even hard locks the system.. 

Still, I am getting like, 1 random error after 15-20 minutes every time.. it might be temp related, DIMM's do get up to 46c now as I have the heater on in the "office" and it's like 23-24c here now. 

Point is, I'm so close to stable with this little amount of errors it should be possible to stabilize it. 

Where should I look for changes to get it stable?
Skews? I'm running the same 120-48-0 that 4400C17 is stable at. Maybe I should try 80-40-40 or something? Any ideas?


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> I got bored working from home again hehe... Jumped back into memory tweaking lol.
> 
> I am trying to get 4500Mhz stable, so far I am quite close at 4500 17-18-18-38-370-2T, quite loose tRFC and tRAS just to be sure. Subs mostly Auto for now, RTL / IO very loose like 72/72/13/13 (Auto). 16 tWR 16 tCWL 8 tRTP.
> 
> I am at 1.6v DRAM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO. Lower
> gives errors within 10 minutes of TM5 or even hard locks the system..
> 
> Still, I am getting like, 1 random error after 15-20 minutes every time.. it might be temp related, DIMM's do get up to 46c now as I have the heater on in the "office" and it's like 23-24c here now.
> 
> Point is, I'm so close to stable with this little amount of errors it should be possible to stabilize it.
> 
> Where should I look for changes to get it stable?
> Skews? I'm running the same 120-48-0 that 4400C17 is stable at. Maybe I should try 80-40-40 or something? Any ideas?


1,6 vdimm is way too high, i run 4600 c17/17 with 1,54 vdimm. 
With 1,6 i run 4600 c16/17.

Try tweaking vref its the cpu to memory channel connection, Standard is 0,50.
Try vref 0,51-0,53, without it i cant get 4600 c17 stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> 1,6 vdimm is way too high, i run 4600 c17/17 with 1,54 vdimm.
> With 1,6 i run 4600 c16/17.
> 
> Try tweaking vref its the cpu to memory channel connection, Standard is 0,50.
> Try vref 0,51-0,53, without it i cant get 4600 c17 stable.


Yeah I was thinking the same. It doesn't really error more or faster even as low as 1.48v vdimm behaves exactly the same lol. I run 4400C17 on 1.48 as well.

Well, we'll see tomorrow what vref can do for me. What skews should I be using?


----------



## The Pook

diving back into OCing my RAM since it's pretty much been at XMP since I swapped boards.

was looking for a way to mount a fan over my RAM, I already have one of those Corsair things that clip over the RAM but the tiny fans are awful. I found this and it looked neat but the reviews said the magnets were worthless and as far as I can tell they're part of the arm and can't be removed.

so, speaker wire:










didn't have black speaker wire but it worked well enough, low/mid 50s with no fan to low/mid 40s @ 1.52v at ~40%


----------



## acoustic

Alright, here we go!

9900K @ 5Ghz/4.7cache ; EVGA Z390 DARK ; G.Skill 3200CL15 32GB (16x2) DR @ 3800 15-15-15-28 -- 1.55v, tightened secondary timings. 24/7 stable.










With this board and chip, I couldn't even post at 4000. The DARK is notorious for disliking dual-rank and 16GB sticks, and it showed. The 9900K likely had a weak IMC as well, which didn't help my case.

10900K @ 5.1Ghz/4.8cache ; MSI Z490 MEG ACE ; same RAM @ 1.55v, but now at 4133 17-17-17-32:










I'm still learning, this is only Day1 of overclocking with this setup. I've never owned an MSI board before and there are a lot ... and I mean a lot .. of options in the BIOS for memory. I cheated and stole a few that I had pics of from my DARK, but I have a lot of things on auto right now, most notably my RTL/IO timings and some secondary timings that I used to have tweaked. I'm currently running just the primaries, TREFI, TRFC, and tWR, with the rest on auto. I'm also having some issues with Windows, as a blue-screen last night caused some corruption. Windows repaired itself, but things have been acting strange. I can't launch Asrock Timing Configurator (even after re-installing) and TestMem5 gives me strange errors as soon as it opens (can't initialize thread) if I use any of the Anta777 tests. However, if I launch it under 1usmus_v3, let it run for a minute, and then swap it to [email protected], it works fine. Note: It does this even completely stock. Stock CPU, mem @ 2133. Same errors.

I'll be reinstalling Windows tonight, but figured I'd finish getting a good bit of overclocking done so that I have a fresh install without a ton of corrections and errors.. lol


----------



## Arctucas

acoustic said:


> Alright, here we go!
> 
> 9900K @ 5Ghz/4.7cache ; EVGA Z390 DARK ; G.Skill 3200CL15 32GB (16x2) DR @ 3800 15-15-15-28 -- 1.55v, tightened secondary timings. 24/7 stable. With this board and chip, I couldn't even post at 4000. The DARK is notorious for disliking dual-rank and 16GB sticks, and it showed. The 9900K likely had a weak IMC as well, which didn't help my case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With this board and chip, I couldn't even post at 4000. The DARK is notorious for disliking dual-rank and 16GB sticks, and it showed. The 9900K likely had a weak IMC as well, which didn't help my case.
> 
> 10900K @ 5.1Ghz/4.8cache ; MSI Z490 MEG ACE ; same RAM @ 1.55v, but now at 4133 17-17-17-32:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still learning, this is only Day1 of overclocking with this setup. I've never owned an MSI board before and there are a lot ... and I mean a lot .. of options in the BIOS for memory. I cheated and stole a few that I had pics of from my DARK, but I have a lot of things on auto right now, most notably my RTL/IO timings and some secondary timings that I used to have tweaked. I'm currently running just the primaries, TREFI, TRFC, and tWR, with the rest on auto. I'm also having some issues with Windows, as a blue-screen last night caused some corruption. Windows repaired itself, but things have been acting strange. I can't launch Asrock Timing Configurator (even after re-installing) and TestMem5 gives me strange errors as soon as it opens (can't initialize thread) if I use any of the Anta777 tests. However, if I launch it under 1usmus_v3, let it run for a minute, and then swap it to [email protected], it works fine.
> 
> I'll be reinstalling Windows tonight, but figured I'd finish getting a good bit of overclocking done so that I have a fresh install without a ton of corrections and errors.. lol


Z390 Dark does not like DR DIMMs for sure.

Cannot clock my F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW above 4000MHz, but fortunately, timings do tighten up.


----------



## munternet

Salve1412 said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you ever run by any chance Prime95 112k fixed in place (AVX2/AVX disabled) with this RAM and CPU overclock (let's say for about 1 hour)? I'm on similar settings (of course RAM is different and board is not the RAM overclocker goddess Apex lol) and I noticed that at 4400 16-17-17-35, with my 10900K at 5.2GHz Cache ratio 49, I can consistently pass any other test (e.g. 4 hours of GSAT and 4h Anta777 TM5 for RAM or 2 hours of Small-FFT Prime95 for CPU) but still get random crashing threads on Prime 112k fixed: I probably have to adjust Vcore and increase VCCIO/VCCSA, but I would be curious to know if you can pass it with no issues at all.


Fired up P95 with the "RAM overclocker goddess Apex" for 1 hour and 1 minute 
Gets a little warm but runs solid
Vcore 1.32v LLC7


----------



## KedarWolf

The Pook said:


> diving back into OCing my RAM since it's pretty much been at XMP since I swapped boards.
> 
> was looking for a way to mount a fan over my RAM, I already have one of those Corsair things that clip over the RAM but the tiny fans are awful. I found this and it looked neat but the reviews said the magnets were worthless and as far as I can tell they're part of the arm and can't be removed.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> so, speaker wire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> didn't have black speaker wire but it worked well enough, low/mid 50s with no fan to low/mid 40s @ 1.52v at ~40%


My b-die G.Skill is really sensitive to heat. If I run my RAM fans at 6800 RPM, which is kind of loud, can just hear it over my headset, my RAM temps top out at 31C and Ollie TM5 running 6 hours passes all tests. I can't hear the fans with my headset on with a game or Twitch on or something though. Well, I don't notice it, but I can hear them a bit at 6800RPM.

If I run my RAM fans at 3000 RPM which is silent, my RAM tops at 41C, and Ollie RAM test running 6 hours spewed out 31 errors.









DELTA 6CM 6025 60x60x25mm QFR0612UH 12V 0.70A 4-wire 4Pin PWM cooling fan | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DELTA 6CM 6025 60x60x25mm QFR0612UH 12V 0.70A 4-wire 4Pin PWM cooling fan at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.ca
















You can get the same fans cheaper here, but shipping can take a month or more from China to the USA/Canada.









6.75US $ 10% OFF|6CM 6025 60x60x25mm QFR0612UH 4 wire 4Pin PWM double ball bearing high volume air cooling fan|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com





My RAM fans I put in this frame.









14.43US $ 23% OFF|ALSEYE RAM Cooler PC Fan DDR Memory Cooler with Dual 60mm Fan PWM 1500 4000RPM Cooler for DDR2/3/4|memory cooler|ram coolerram memory cooler - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> diving back into OCing my RAM since it's pretty much been at XMP since I swapped boards.
> 
> was looking for a way to mount a fan over my RAM, I already have one of those Corsair things that clip over the RAM but the tiny fans are awful. I found this and it looked neat but the reviews said the magnets were worthless and as far as I can tell they're part of the arm and can't be removed.
> 
> so, speaker wire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> didn't have black speaker wire but it worked well enough, low/mid 50s with no fan to low/mid 40s @ 1.52v at ~40%


I thought about getting something like these *EK clamp plates* and fitting something like this *heatsink*
Might need a little work with a hacksaw and a drill but should be easy enough
Then moderate air flow should suffice


----------



## Salve1412

munternet said:


> Fired up P95 with the "RAM overclocker goddess Apex" for 1 hour and 1 minute
> Gets a little warm but runs solid
> Vcore 1.32v LLC7
> 
> View attachment 2475103


Nice, solid overclock indeed! Thanks for doing it


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah no, vref and such isn't going to save my 4500C17 overclock. It just needs way way too much VCCSA/IO for me to be comfortable running. At the very least 1.45v SA 1.40v IO to be errror free the first 20 minutes. Any lower and it will error like mad and 1.35v SA 1.30v IO won't even POST 4500 anymore. Not going to push it that hard. 

I am trying to tweak my daily 4400C17 1.48v vDIMM 1.40v SA 1.35v IO a bit more sub timing wise. 
I am working in tWTR_L / S now. This timing is extremely vDIMM sensitive right? I mean, 1.48v gives me 9/4 with tWRRD 29/24 stable. If I wanna run 8/3 with 28/23 tWRRD it needs at least 1.54v to boot, and what i'm testing now, 7/2 with tWRRD 27/22 needs 1.60v vDIMM to even start TM5 without BSOD'ing.. Is this normal for tWTR to demand SO much more voltage?


----------



## acoustic

Man that seems like a lot of VCCSA/VCCIO voltage for 4400. I have 4133 stable at 1.2v on both right now. I wonder if I should try pumping to 1.3v for 4266. My chip/RAM seems to prefer a 133 strap. 4200 was no good, and 4100 was no good.


----------



## morph.

acoustic said:


> Man that seems like a lot of VCCSA/VCCIO voltage for 4400. I have 4133 stable at 1.2v on both right now. I wonder if I should try pumping to 1.3v for 4266. My chip/RAM seems to prefer a 133 strap. 4200 was no good, and 4100 was no good.


some sticks run better with tCL+1 for tRCD & tRP.

I was in the same boat but it seems 1.3-1.35v is fine for sa/io. Personally, I wouldn't push past that many on here seem to go up or past 1.4v


----------



## Imprezzion

If I wanna run 4.9-5.0 cache I need 1.40v SA for 4400Mhz for sure. With 4.7 cache I can get away with 1.35v but yeah.. CPU temps aren't an issue.

I was testing something else. 4200 C14 didn't work, error after 28 minutes @ 1.55v vDIMM.

Now, the funny thing is, 133 strap, 4133Mhz with 14-17-17-35-330-2T does actually work lol. It does take 1.60v vDIMM to not error but here, 1h20m run with no errors. 46c on the DIMMs @ 1.60v.
RTL/IO is a mess as they are on Auto but that shouldn't impact stability all that much.
I used 17 tRP and tRCD just to be sure that they don't cause instability since I only wanna know if CAS 14 is attainable. The rest of the timings are set to whatever they were on 4400C17 so stuff like tWR / tCWL / tRDWR can probably be way way tighter on 4133.

Skews used are 120-0-48 (in MSI's order, which is probably 120-48-0 on other boards). No changes to vRef. They are Auto 0.800v. 

Now to see what tRP / tRCD they will handle on 4133C14. I'll start at 16 and work my way down.

And yes, I don't need this much VCCSA / IO for 4133 but i also wanted to be sure they were't too low causing random errors so I left that all at where they are at 4400C17.


----------



## acoustic

I'm glad a memory OC noob like me actually had some useful info LOL.

I've been playing around with this MSI board and I've settled (for now) on 4133 17-17-17-32 2T @ 1.55v vDIMM. The one thing I like about memory OCing, is that I can leave a bit on the table for when I get bored later on. I'm still super impressed with this board and this chip. I couldn't even post at 4000 no matter what timings, voltages, etc I used with my 9900K + Z390 DARK. This board definitely took some learning in order to get settings that would post, and then settings that wouldn't error in the first 2 seconds of TM5 1usmus, but it seems I've got a handle on it. I tightened down my RTL a bit, nothing crazy but the board was auto-setting to 77CHA/78CHB. This setup is sweet! Do I notice much increase in gaming @ 3840x1600? No, not really, but it's been fun, and I've learned a bit over the course of yesterday. I wish I could see my DIMM temperatures, but I'm guessing it's due to my sticks, not the board I have. My Z390 DARK didn't show DIMM temps, and this Z490 ACE doesn't either.

I also may be an MSI motherboard fanboy now. I've been looking for other boards as I've gotten sick of ASUS, the insane pricing, and their drop in quality on the Hero and Formula boards. Looks like I found my new go-to brand. EVGA didn't let me down, but the DARK is just not a good board for a daily use case.

What version of Asrock Timing Configurator are you using? I can't seem to get it to work, even on a fresh install of Windows.


----------



## Imprezzion

4.0.3. I couldn't get 4.0.4 to work on my Ace either.

4133 14-15-15 gave 275 errors in 12 minutes.. I think it might not be stable hehe.. going for 14-16-16 now lol.

@acoustic I've used MSI since Z170 after I replaced my asus ranger with a Z170 Gaming M7 and never looked back. Z270 M7, Z390 Ace, Z490 Ace, all served me very well.


----------



## acoustic

Ah man, thank you! I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on, and my initial google search didn't help. Here's my current scores after tightening RTL a tiny bit. I'm a noob, so please let me know if you see something wildly loose. There are a lot of settings in the BIOS I still have set to Auto:


----------



## Imprezzion

acoustic said:


> Ah man, thank you! I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on, and my initial google search didn't help. Here's my current scores after tightening RTL a tiny bit. I'm a noob, so please let me know if you see something wildly loose. There are a lot of settings in the BIOS I still have set to Auto:


It's looking pretty clean but tWRRD_SG and DG should be set way way lower. 29/24 should do the trick for now. 28/23 or 27/22 are also valid combinations. 

As for RTL IO, try in fixed mode to set Initials to 65/65 and 1/1 for IO. Then boot to BIOS, if the actual values of the RTL line up it's fine for that, if IO is 2 or more apart (like 10/13) then raise the Offsets starting at 21 according to how much it's off. So 10/13 would be 21/24 offset.

If it doesn't boot 65/65/1/1 try higher RTL like 66, 67 and so forth. IO on 1 pretty much always works on MSI so. But, if it doesn't try 4.


----------



## paweltylman

Hello, i'm new here, would like to have some advice i have
2x 4GB ADATA XPG Z1, DDR4, 3000MHz, CL16
Gigabyte GA-Z370-HD3
Intel Core i5-8600k @4.8Ghz

i overclock to 3500MHz 1.5V 19.19.19.43 CR 1T rest on auto (Stable)

would like to have some advice how to improve OC for more performance, is it posible?


----------



## acoustic

Imprezzion said:


> It's looking pretty clean but tWRRD_SG and DG should be set way way lower. 29/24 should do the trick for now. 28/23 or 27/22 are also valid combinations.
> 
> As for RTL IO, try in fixed mode to set Initials to 65/65 and 1/1 for IO. Then boot to BIOS, if the actual values of the RTL line up it's fine for that, if IO is 2 or more apart (like 10/13) then raise the Offsets starting at 21 according to how much it's off. So 10/13 would be 21/24 offset.
> 
> If it doesn't boot 65/65/1/1 try higher RTL like 66, 67 and so forth. IO on 1 pretty much always works on MSI so. But, if it doesn't try 4.


Alright, so got the RTL/IO zoned in with those recommendations. I ended up with RTL Initials of 65, and RTL values underneath it at 66/66/66/66. I locked those in, so 65/65 initial, and 66/66/66/66. 1/1 IO Initials worked as well. I ended up with 10/8, so I went 23/21 on IO compensation. I locked in that 10/10/8/8 in the BIOS with the 23/21 on compensation, and now it shows 8/8.

I tried setting tWRRD_SG/DG to 29/24, but wouldn't post. Tried 32/27 (noticed you were doing 5 apart) and it got to Windows, but when running AIDA64 bench it was giving me 0's across the board, so definitely not stable. I set it to Auto again, and she went back to 40/30. I'm going to try 35/30 next, maybe it's the tWRRD_DG that doesn't want to go under 30. After that, going to run some Anta777 and make sure it's still stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

acoustic said:


> Alright, so got the RTL/IO zoned in with those recommendations. I ended up with RTL Initials of 65, and RTL values underneath it at 66/66/66/66. I locked those in, so 65/65 initial, and 66/66/66/66. 1/1 IO Initials worked as well. I ended up with 10/8, so I went 23/21 on IO compensation. I locked in that 10/10/8/8 in the BIOS with the 23/21 on compensation, and now it shows 8/8.
> 
> I tried setting tWRRD_SG/DG to 29/24, but wouldn't post. Tried 32/27 (noticed you were doing 5 apart) and it got to Windows, but when running AIDA64 bench it was giving me 0's across the board, so definitely not stable. I set it to Auto again, and she went back to 40/30. I'm going to try 35/30 next, maybe it's the tWRRD_DG that doesn't want to go under 30. After that, going to run some Anta777 and make sure it's still stable.


TWRRD controls tWTR secondaries. Are they on Auto?

I see they are at 6/16 which is very high for B-Die. I run mine at 4/9 (29/24 tWRRD) at 4400C17. Lower won't work. RTL/IO is looking good, they are trained properly. For optimal latency you'd wanna look at 66/66/6/7 or 7/7 if I recall correctly what Gen. said. I'm no expert in RTL/IO but that worked the best for me. (They can be 1 digit apart, no more).

So far 4133C14 doesn't really wanna work with me here lol.. 14-16-16 error fest. 14-17-17 is fine with high tRAS but with 33 it's like, nope.


----------



## acoustic

Yeah, a good chunk of secondary timings are on Auto right now. I'd have to double-check, but I believe tWTR is on Auto as well. I carried forward a couple timings like tWR, tRFC, and tCKE from what my DARK used to use. I just booted in and AIDA64 bench worked fine with TWRRD_SG/DG @ 35/30.

Here's where I'm at now. Going to stress-test this with Anta777 now; I'm pretty happy with where things are at the moment, and going to enjoy some gaming after an hour of Extreme1.


----------



## Imprezzion

acoustic said:


> Yeah, a good chunk of secondary timings are on Auto right now. I'd have to double-check, but I believe tWTR is on Auto as well. I carried forward a couple timings like tWR, tRFC, and tCKE from what my DARK used to use. I just booted in and AIDA64 bench worked fine with TWRRD_SG/DG @ 35/30.
> 
> Here's where I'm at now. Going to stress-test this with Anta777 now; I'm pretty happy with where things are at the moment, and going to enjoy some gaming after an hour of Extreme1.


Looking great. tWR 10 is kinda tight for 4200 so if you run into trouble with stability that would be the first timing i'd try to raise a bit. (12-16 is normal range)


----------



## Ichirou

Falkentyne said:


> Shouldn't twrrd_dr be set to 5 or 6? There was some discussion about that a long time ago. What benefit did you get from setting all the different rank values to "0"??
> 
> "dd" being set to 0 only works for 2x16 GB sticks since that's "different dimm", rather than "different rank", so for 2x16 GB, both RAM sticks are going to be in the same dimm channel (dimm 1 usually), so "different dimm" won't be used. Dual channel 2x16=2 dimms in the same dimm bank, different ranks (since its dual rank). Now, same group and different group...not touching that.


All of the _dr values are strictly for dual rank, so it doesn't matter what you set them to; they just get ignored. I just put them at 0 because it looks nice 

And yeah, _dd is for the channels, basically. Impossible to set to 0 if you're running a quad DIMM system. I've seen people set them to 0 for dual DIMMs though.


----------



## The Pook

tried dropping tFAW (was at 20 at 4133 on my Taichi but was 8x2). probably could drop tRFC too but trying 4200 now:










gonna test longer tonight but it I've been using it for the past few days without issues. 



KedarWolf said:


> You can get the same fans cheaper here, but shipping can take a month or more from China to the USA/Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6.75US $ 10% OFF|6CM 6025 60x60x25mm QFR0612UH 4 wire 4Pin PWM double ball bearing high volume air cooling fan|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress
> 
> 
> Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aliexpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My RAM fans I put in this frame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14.43US $ 23% OFF|ALSEYE RAM Cooler PC Fan DDR Memory Cooler with Dual 60mm Fan PWM 1500 4000RPM Cooler for DDR2/3/4|memory cooler|ram coolerram memory cooler - AliExpress
> 
> 
> Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aliexpress.com


it's pretty ugly but I'm not too fussed with the _a e s t h e t i c_ and I'm not entirely sure I has having temperature problems to being with, just figured I should throw something there since I got rid of my top fans.



munternet said:


> I thought about getting something like these *EK clamp plates* and fitting something like this *heatsink*
> Might need a little work with a hacksaw and a drill but should be easy enough
> Then moderate air flow should suffice


so a DIY and less-gaudy Thermaltake VR1?


----------



## Arctucas

Discovered something interesting (for me, anyway).

Was running LinPackXtreme and noticed I was getting mismatched residuals.

So, just add VCore, correct? No, added 50mV and still getting mismatched residuals, and occasional error.

Reset BIOS to default and tried overclocking, testing, repeat.

Got CPU back where it was, same clocks, same voltage, residuals all matched. Weird.

Long story short, RAM on either AUTO or XMP1, matching residuals. Using tightened timings that pass 2 hours of [email protected], 3 hours of 1usmus_v3, 1 hour of GSAT, 1000% MemTest, and can run hours of P95 small FFT, were causing the mismatched residuals, which I have read indicates not completely stable overclock settings.

*EDIT:*

More than five hours of resetting memory timings and testing.










Ended up with exact same timings that were failing.

Only difference; added 5mV VDIMM, from 1.395V to 1.400V.


----------



## Placekicker19

I was using 1.52dimm for 4500 cl17, which required 1.325 io/ 1.375 sa voltage for stability. After testing my ram, I discovered I only need 1.47 for stability, however now I only need around 1.265 io/ 1.265sa for stability. Using more ram voltage than needed can drastically increase how much sa/io voltage is needed for stability.

When using 1.52 dimm with 1.265sa/io it begins spitting errors after seconds. With 1.47 dimm , im 45 minutes into tm5 anta777 extreme without a error. Im not sure if every cpu/board/ram combo behaves this way, but z490 dark does and it shows the importance of not using too much dimm voltage.


----------



## Imprezzion

This is getting strange.. I have never seen B-Die act like mine does.. no matter what I do it absolutely hates straight timings or at least normal/tight tRP and tRCD.. I mean, I just passed 3 hours of TM5 Anta Extreme at 4533Mhz CAS16 but I can only run 16-19-19-39-370.. If I even attempt 16-18-18 it will fall flat on it's face. Same goes for 4200C15 for example. 15-17-17 works, 15-16-16 impossible. 4400 also, 16-18-18 is fine, 17-17-17 is fine, 16-17-17, nope.. even with the kit doing C16 fine up to 4533 with higher tRP/tRCD.

What am I doing "wrong" or is my kit just acting up lol.


----------



## Thrakis

Small status update after few days of testing - after the valuable hints I've got from You guys.
It showed up that cause of my TM5 errors were:

odd tCWL (11,13)
tRCD<17
System seems to be stable-stable now.
RTT-s are WR-80 PARK-120 NOM-0.
Bios volteges: Vdram=1,45V, Vio=1,225V Vsa 1,237V.
Dram Vtt left in auto as 0,775-0,8V caused TM5 errors.
tRRD_L and _S can go down to 2 - 1, but Aida64 benchs drop in their results - kept them therefore at highest bench values.
Ring/cache max @ x45.
Looking now around for a modded bios version with unlocked "bank-rank structure" settings in order to lower tXP from actual 8. (MemTweakIt can't change them online)
Are there some other settings in Z270 bios left, which is worth to tamper with in order to improve performance bit further.
Thanks in advance


----------



## warbucks

Picked up a new kit (F4-3600C14D-32GTRS) and have been playing around with it. This is where I've landed so far. Next up, 4400Mhz, although I may have to lower cache(it's at 49x right now).

1.50VDIMM, 1.30IO, 1.32SA


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

638220 said:


> But I already posted my stability test and aida64 + geekbench 3 benchmark on page 799. Feel free to boot up your z390 apex with your 9900k, clock up to 4.8ghz on the cpu, up to 4.4ghz on the cache and then clock to 4600mhz on 8gbx2 ram , then post your aida64 + geekbench 3 benchmark(32-bit trial) + hcimemtest stability test + hwinfo64 + aida64 cpu-id tab. Be sure to screenshot hcimemtest @ 600% or higher while the test is still in progress with the aida64 chipset tab open at the same time so we can see the timings that are being tested just like I did. Since I already posted my stability test + performance earlier in the thread, now it is your turn. Remember, stability test required, aida64 benchmark required and geekbench3 32-bit trial benchmark required, all with the aida64 chipset tab open while the test is still running to show the timings. Basically follow the exact same screenshot format + test format that I used in all my screenshots posted earlier in the thread.
> 
> Also, msrp for the z390 aorus master was something like 300 or 330 dollars while the z390 apex was around 450 dollars. At the time of this posting, you can find z390 aorus master boards for as low as 230/used, while a z390 apex will cost you around 400/used if you get lucky(only one I see available is actually from japan used at 500+ dollars).
> 
> *But like I said, the z390 apex isn't a bad product, it's actually quite good at what it does, it's just not for me because it is more geared towards XoC rather than content creation/gaming since I can go up to 128gb ram on the z390 aorus master when I need it, The z390 apex only supports up to 64gb ram. I just wish people would stop trying to push me onto asus products that aren't equipped to suit my needs, it does not make me want to own asus products. People kept telling me i couldn't clock higher than 4133 for daily use on the z390 aorus master and that I needed to buy a z390 apex if I wanted higher frequency/better performance, but that was a lie as I have disproven that by stabilizing c17-4200 on 4 dimms, c16-4200 on 4 dimms, c16-4242mhz on 4 dimms, c17-4257mhz on 4 dimms, c18-4400 on 4 dimms and c16-4333 on 4 dimms + many other configurations to list. I know you are just fullfilling your duties as a motherboard sales rep to generate revenue which I can respect to an extent but constantly trying to make me think my board isn't good enough when it actually is good enough is not going to make me want to buy your products. I'm not switching to Asus, end of story. No hard feelings here on my side though, I'm sure you understand where i'm coming from.*


I know this is old and Aorus master is a great board but it will not give the same performance as apex, super solid for cpu, and memory OC to 3900mhz is solid but above there is a royal Pita! I run 4400-17-18-8-38-2t-300 @1.54v with everything tuned as low as the board will go, 4x8gb same sticks do 4800-14-14-14-28-1t-280 on my apex btw, but at 4000-14-14-14-32-2t-300 the performance is not beating apex, I was testing 3900strap and bclk to 4133 with tuned RTL/IOL and it doesn’t touch 4600 on apex with a good kit tuned properly. Still it’s a solid board and once you get it right it performs very well but takes a lot of work, mind you I’ve benched at 4700-17-18-18-40-2t on z390 master just royal pita compared to apex.


----------



## Intrud3r

Got my 3600 16-16-16 4x8 GTRS kit to this atm on my aorus master .... had it withstand 1 cycle of anta extreme with 1 hour occt sse and 1 hour occt avx and a couple of geekbench runs to check performance.

Can be tuned further, but for today i'll keep it at this.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> This is getting strange.. I have never seen B-Die act like mine does.. no matter what I do it absolutely hates straight timings or at least normal/tight tRP and tRCD.. I mean, I just passed 3 hours of TM5 Anta Extreme at 4533Mhz CAS16 but I can only run 16-19-19-39-370.. If I even attempt 16-18-18 it will fall flat on it's face. Same goes for 4200C15 for example. 15-17-17 works, 15-16-16 impossible. 4400 also, 16-18-18 is fine, 17-17-17 is fine, 16-17-17, nope.. even with the kit doing C16 fine up to 4533 with higher tRP/tRCD.
> 
> What am I doing "wrong" or is my kit just acting up lol.


Can be imc related. 
Most cpu's are not capable of some timings at certain Frequency's.
For example c17 is harder on 10900k than c16.
I can run 4666 c16 on my 10900k but even 4600 c17 falls flat on its face on gsat. 
My other 10900k can run that 4600 c17 with Same Kit fine, but 4600 c16 still runs more stable. 
C18 is even harder on the imc, idk why and its Not Logic, but thats how it is. 
I had to test 4 10900k to find one that could run 4600 c17 without errors. 
Everyone of Them could run 4600 c16.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

itssladenlol said:


> Can be imc related.
> Most cpu's are not capable of some timings at certain Frequency's.
> For example c17 is harder on 10900k than c16.
> I can run 4666 c16 on my 10900k but even 4600 c17 falls flat on its face on gsat.
> My other 10900k can run that 4600 c17 with Same Kit fine, but 4600 c16 still runs more stable.
> C18 is even harder on the imc, idk why and its Not Logic, but thats how it is.
> I had to test 4 10900k to find one that could run 4600 c17 without errors.
> Everyone of Them could run 4600 c16.


The training algorithm may be suitable for c16 timings, but may not work well for c17 timings. This could cause wrong rtl training.
For DR, C16 actually works better on apex.


----------



## Imprezzion

Makes sense, I mean it kinda doesn't but that would explain a lot if it's just certain things and trainings that work better then others.

Frustrating thing is, every time I try something new like for example 4600 17-19-19-39-450-2T it seems to run fine for the first 9-12 minutes, then spits 1-2 errors, and then runs fine for 1.5 hours not erroring again... It's so strange lol how this thing reacts sometimes. I would say temp related but it's barely getting warm at 39c at that point of the test, not erroring at like 44c later on..

Also the RTT's (skews) are horrible to line up. Some frequencies want 120-0-48, other combinations want something totally different like 80-40-40 or 120-60-40 or 120-120-80 or whatever to even boot.. there are so freaking many variables that can make or break a RAM overclock..


----------



## munternet

warbucks said:


> Picked up a new kit (F4-3600C14D-32GTRS) and have been playing around with it. This is where I've landed so far. Next up, 4400Mhz, although I may have to lower cache(it's at 49x right now).
> 
> 1.50VDIMM, 1.30IO, 1.32SA
> View attachment 2475282


If your CPU multiplier is 53 and proper stable then 49 should be fine for the cache no problem
Looks like a nice kit 
I couldn't run straight 7's on my dr's for higher frequencies with my 4266c17's but some can but don't get hung up on keeping them at 7 
Might be time to upgrade the sig mate


----------



## The Pook

10.5 hour stable  

gave up on >4133, 4266 is doable but the timings have to be loosened and voltage raised too much for it to make sense 24/7










already dropped: 
tWRRD_sg/dg to 27/24
tWTR_S to 4 
tTRP to 6 

and it passed a hour and a half, but gonna run it overnight tonight.


----------



## Placekicker19

itssladenlol said:


> Can be imc related.
> Most cpu's are not capable of some timings at certain Frequency's.
> For example c17 is harder on 10900k than c16.
> I can run 4666 c16 on my 10900k but even 4600 c17 falls flat on its face on gsat.
> My other 10900k can run that 4600 c17 with Same Kit fine, but 4600 c16 still runs more stable.
> C18 is even harder on the imc, idk why and its Not Logic, but thats how it is.
> I had to test 4 10900k to find one that could run 4600 c17 without errors.
> Everyone of Them could run 4600 c16.


Are you running straight 16s, or 16-17-17 on the primaries? I've got 4600 17-17-17 stable on the z490 dark, haven't tried c16 but will give it a try to see if its any easier to get stable.


----------



## Intrud3r

Finished my nightly run of karhu after having run anta777 1 full cycle, 1 hour occt sse and 1 hour occt avx and some occt large avx2 extreme. Seems to be fine with these settings. Took me a while tho to get it here. It's a 4x8 3600 16-16-16-36 GTRS kit.


----------



## Nizzen

itssladenlol said:


> Can be imc related.
> Most cpu's are not capable of some timings at certain Frequency's.
> For example c17 is harder on 10900k than c16.
> I can run 4666 c16 on my 10900k but even 4600 c17 falls flat on its face on gsat.
> My other 10900k can run that 4600 c17 with Same Kit fine, but 4600 c16 still runs more stable.
> C18 is even harder on the imc, idk why and its Not Logic, but thats how it is.
> I had to test 4 10900k to find one that could run 4600 c17 without errors.
> Everyone of Them could run 4600 c16.


Show us Aida64, to see if the performance actual is there 

Any aida64 performance numbers to share?


----------



## Astral85

I've got my Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB 3466 (b-die) set running at 3800MHz with some tweaks to the primaries and secondary's.


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> Are you running straight 16s, or 16-17-17 on the primaries? I've got 4600 17-17-17 stable on the z490 dark, haven't tried c16 but will give it a try to see if its any easier to get stable.


16/17/17


----------



## itssladenlol

Nizzen said:


> Show us Aida64, to see if the performance actual is there
> 
> Any aida64 performance numbers to share?
> 
> View attachment 2475558


I will, gimme a sec just woke up


----------



## ObviousCough

How well do Micron B-dies scale with voltage? I'm at 1.45v right now. I'd like to max out the IMC on this Pentium with these sticks if possible, but if they are already near their limit i can use one of my PVS4400C19 kits.


----------



## Mds

Hi, have read through most of this thread and have to say thanks to a lot of people for some good tips and suggestions and guides. Without which i would be settling for 4100 when 4400 was available.
I have managed to get a decent Oc on my ram Corsair dominator 3800 19 19 19, up from 4100 16 17 17, good but not quite the bandwidth as 4400.
At some point during my 4400 trials i got my read write and copy @67k 67k and 60k with latency at 36.4\5ns but final figures after a fair bit of trial and error i get this.









In reality it is plenty good enough but im hoping someone here could see where i may have lost the little bit of bandwidth and latency or even just tweaks for improvement.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## morph.

warbucks said:


> Picked up a new kit (F4-3600C14D-32GTRS) and have been playing around with it. This is where I've landed so far. Next up, 4400Mhz, although I may have to lower cache(it's at 49x right now).
> 
> 1.50VDIMM, 1.30IO, 1.32SA
> View attachment 2475282


 I have the same kit and run at 4400 unfortunately needed 17-18-18 to get stability without too much voltage very interested in what you can achieve.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I've finally done it while testing 4600C16 hahaha.

Was playing around with skews and voltages but must've made it very unstable and it failed to load Windows. Now, if I reboot it won't even recognize that there's even a Windows installed on my C drive so it's very very broken haha.

It was well overdue for a re-install anyway but I could never be bothered due to all the time it takes.. well, it would be a shame if I lost my cyberpunk save game now as it's not cloud synced but local only due to running mods.. hehe.


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> It was well overdue for a re-install anyway but I could never be bothered due to all the time it takes.. well, it would be a shame if I lost my cyberpunk save game now as it's not cloud synced but local only due to running mods.. hehe.








GameSave Manager


The easy way to backup, transfer and share your PC save data




www.gamesave-manager.com


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> GameSave Manager
> 
> 
> The easy way to backup, transfer and share your PC save data
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gamesave-manager.com


My dude that is a incredible tip! I never knew something like this existed but it works amazingly well!

I fixed my windows to the point I can boot it by re-writing the boot sector and partition table (long live recovery USB's) but I don't know if anything else got corrupted so I made a backup straight away and tried loading those saves on a different PC and it works fine!

Well, back to memory overclocks.

I also noticed I made an important mistake. I always wanted to assume more volts = more stable, but after seeing the errors come faster and faster the higher I set the voltage to the point where it wouldn't even launch TM5 without errors in 2 minutes at 1.65v RAM 1.45v SA 1.40v IO I finally realized that maybe... it isn't too little voltage and just yeeting more at it isn't going to fix it... So, I dropped it down a load from 1.65v to 1.48v and it has never gotten this far without errors on 4533C17 lol.. almost at 40 minutes now error free while usually it would start to error really bad at 12 minutes or so.


----------



## Intrud3r

I've had that happen to me too at 4200 4x8 ... the higher the voltage ... the earlier I saw errors .... with me also 1.476-1.488V vdimm was the setting that had most promise ... still couldn't get it stable tho at those speeds.


----------



## Gen.

Hi. How are you. Cfg 24/7 front 11900K + Z590 (ASUS, MSI).


----------



## Imprezzion

Intrud3r said:


> I've had that happen to me too at 4200 4x8 ... the higher the voltage ... the earlier I saw errors .... with me also 1.476-1.488V vdimm was the setting that had most promise ... still couldn't get it stable tho at those speeds.


Fixed. The trick was way way less voltage, DLL Bandwidth on not 0 (dunno what Auto gives it lol), properly aligning RTL/IO and setting skews to 80/40/40 in stead of 120/0/48.

4533Mhz 17-19-19-39-370-2T @ 1.52v DRAM 1.40v SA 1.35v IO. I'm testing @ 5Ghz Core 4.7 Cache just to be completely 100% sure CPU / cache isn't acting up. 
This is all pretty loose except RTL/IO but I wanted a baseline for 4533 first. Now tomorrow we'll see how far I can take this with secondary / tertiary and maybe even 17-18-18 or 17-17-17.


----------



## Intrud3r

Couldn't withstand trying ... rebooted, saved my profile and set 17-18-18 as primaries and 4100 Mhz .... rest all on auto ... let it train, rebooted and set it to 4200 and let it train, trained without any issue, booted into windows without any issue. let it rest 1.5 min and started occt ram sse test ..... errored within 4 seconds ..... (2) .... stopped the test and rebooted and loaded my profile again .... does it need that much more vccio for 4200 4x8 (as i am at 1.290-1.300V now and I didn't change that, vccsa is at 1.340V)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Intrud3r said:


> Couldn't withstand trying ... rebooted, saved my profile and set 17-18-18 as primaries and 4100 Mhz .... rest all on auto ... let it train, rebooted and set it to 4200 and let it train, trained without any issue, booted into windows without any issue. let it rest 1.5 min and started occt ram sse test ..... errored within 4 seconds ..... (2) .... stopped the test and rebooted and loaded my profile again .... does it need that much more vccio for 4200 4x8 (as i am at 1.290-1.300V now and I didn't change that, vccsa is at 1.340V)


4*8GB does need more VccIO than 2 dimms. Can try 1.35V for a baseline.

For the OCCT test, increase VCore a little bit might help.


----------



## Placekicker19

Imprezzion said:


> Fixed. The trick was way way less voltage, DLL Bandwidth on not 0 (dunno what Auto gives it lol), properly aligning RTL/IO and setting skews to 80/40/40 in stead of 120/0/48.
> 
> 4533Mhz 17-19-19-39-370-2T @ 1.52v DRAM 1.40v SA 1.35v IO. I'm testing @ 5Ghz Core 4.7 Cache just to be completely 100% sure CPU / cache isn't acting up.
> This is all pretty loose except RTL/IO but I wanted a baseline for 4533 first. Now tomorrow we'll see how far I can take this with secondary / tertiary and maybe even 17-18-18 or 17-17-17.
> 
> View attachment 2475769


I see you were also able to lower your sa and io voltages once you lowered your dimm voltage. 
I posted several days ago how 1.52 dimm , required alot higher sa and io voltages for stability than 1.47 dimm.


----------



## cstkl1

internet is a dangerous thing. especially when a noob is armed with a apex.. they suddenly thing they can go around giving advice on ram clocking

but i guess thats apex fault lol.. for making it so easy










its a question so easy anybody can answer and look what he did .. LOL...
1 tick with iol tigther
2 i observe etc..
hahahahahahaha

bet u he doesnt know round trip latency algo is a intel MRC thingy... it doesnt take to account of your cpu/cache etc...

but anyway shows APEX is APEX.. can convert a noob from 260 days who was seeking help everywhere to suddenly giving out advice everywhere...


----------



## Imprezzion

Hmm, been a while since I actually had a BSOD (0x01c) while testing memory.. I dropped my tRCD and tRP from 19 to 18 @ 4533Mhz CAS 17 and it went fine for like 28 minutes in TM5 Anta777 Extreme but then out of nowhere with no errors in TM5 at that point it BSOD'd. Odd. What do you guys think caused it? VCCSA / IO? RAM Voltage? Skews?

I am now re-testing with lower tRAS (now at CAS + tRP + 2) and lower tRFC, so, 17-19-19-38-350-2T. If this passes 1 hour I will go on to secondaries like tWR/tCWL and tRTP and such, when those are at the lowest possible stable point I will go to tertiary timings like tWRWR and such.

EDIT: Stable as a rock. Under 45c for the DIMM's as well.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> internet is a dangerous thing. especially when a noob is armed with a apex.. they suddenly thing they can go around giving advice on ram clocking
> 
> but i guess thats apex fault lol.. for making it so easy
> 
> View attachment 2475876
> 
> 
> its a question so easy anybody can answer and look what he did .. LOL...
> 1 tick with iol tigther
> 2 i observe etc..
> hahahahahahaha
> 
> bet u he doesnt know round trip latency algo is a intel MRC thingy... it doesnt take to account of your cpu/cache etc...
> 
> but anyway shows APEX is APEX.. can convert a noob from 260 days who was seeking help everywhere to suddenly giving out advice everywhere...


You Like to talk a lot of bullshit but i don't see your numbers . I'll show you mine. And yes i mistyped, iols wont change, but the RTLS will big deal. Now show me your setup with sane voltages .


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> You Like to talk a lot of bullshit but i don't see your numbers . I'll show you mine. And yes i mistyped, iols wont change, but the RTLS will big deal. Now show me your setup with sane voltages .
> 
> View attachment 2475917
> View attachment 2475918


Finally the noob appeared.
y those two questions so difficut to answer eh. Yes yes a typo of a lengthy sentence when its few words was needed. Nevermind give u chance to redeem

nou wanna talk numbers..
Its already here and i m12e thread, in 10900k thread and even that lowyat forum thread link i posted.
Already went through your postings. 1 year noob. Asking help every where. Got apex. Saw how easy. Started now giving advice on ram oc and dare to critic others.
As if you are an ambassador of apex.

shall we continue the next series of questions on your “ram knowledge”. 

follow that scenario before
3)If tcl drops to 17 what changes in rtl/iol
4)If rtl maintained at 66/67 how to reduce iol
to say 11??This a two parter mind ya. But i am sure you can google this.?
4) lets try something that not rtl related.
what is the default odt of bdie for dual rank on asus z490.
5) what is turnaround timing algo?

Hey maybe u noob on rtl but 4-5 easy right. Come on. Show em google skills.

go aussie go. Show you are not full of air.


----------



## itssladenlol

YaqY said:


> You Like to talk a lot of bullshit but i don't see your numbers . I'll show you mine. And yes i mistyped, iols wont change, but the RTLS will big deal. Now show me your setup with sane voltages .
> 
> View attachment 2475917
> View attachment 2475918


Too Bad thats Not stable. 
Not even close. 
5/5/5/5 io'l never stable at 4500.
TRDRD_DR and tWRWR_DR = 5 also never stable at 4500.
Copy speed really low for 4500 c16.
So Many things wrong with this setup.


----------



## cstkl1

itssladenlol said:


> Too Bad thats Not stable.
> Not even close.
> 5/5/5/5 io'l never stable at 4500.
> TRDRD_DR and tWRWR_DR = 5 also never stable at 4500.
> Copy speed really low for 4500 c16.
> So Many things wrong with this setup.


It could be 10700k bro. Cause think i saw copy was lower when i was doing before i got all the 10900k.. i tested on 4x8gb 10700k was easier to train than 10900k got even 4266 easy. 
10900k only@Esenel manage to do it on asus. He infact the only dude that didnt loose performance compared to other boards...
I am actually not happy about dat. First time gave up on 4dimm which i been clocking 4 since ddr2..

will explain after he answered. I might as well give a whole guide now since rtl/iol eol after cometlake.


----------



## Imprezzion

I kinda wanna ignore the flamewars above here but now it makes me wanna try to get IO 5 stable at 4533... Let's goo. 
I finishes a 1.5hr test again with tWR 14 tCWL 14 and again 1 tier lower tRFC @ 340 now with 48500 tREFI. 
Perfectly stable so far in this specific test / scenario.

My CPU IMC and DIMM's really seem to like 4533 17-19-19 primaries. They run it very easily and I can change any subtiming I want without training failing or massive instability like 4400C16 did show. Still at the same vDIMM, same SA IO, again hovering between 44-45c for the DIMM's, CPU barely getting warm. It is underclocked compared to daily, which is 5.2/4/9 :$

After I know 100% sure the RAM will do a overnight run @ 5.0/4.7 i'll re-run it at full CPU speed to see if the cache is actually stable at 4.9 cause i have my doubts.. 

Well, off to see if I can get IOL to do 5/5 lol. On a MSI Ace. With 2x16GB DR B-Die..  
Or, on a more serious note, let's lower tCWL / tWR some more..


----------



## YaqY

itssladenlol said:


> Too Bad thats Not stable.
> Not even close.
> 5/5/5/5 io'l never stable at 4500.
> TRDRD_DR and tWRWR_DR = 5 also never stable at 4500.
> Copy speed really low for 4500 c16.
> So Many things wrong with this setup.


Except it isnt unstable laden, it passes gsat and large avx 2 for an hr np . Bandwidth is lower because its a 10700K with ht off please do your research . IOLS are stable please look at the stress testing i posted, although they show no difference in benches i just do it out of habit. I mean you are the same guy that binned cpus and like 10 sets of ram and still i don't see your setup .


----------



## YaqY

itssladenlol said:


> Too Bad thats Not stable.
> Not even close.
> 5/5/5/5 io'l never stable at 4500.
> TRDRD_DR and tWRWR_DR = 5 also never stable at 4500.
> Copy speed really low for 4500 c16.
> So Many things wrong with this setup.


Also twrwr_dr is at 7 not 5 . TRDRD_DR is very stable at 5, try it yourself, nice performance gain.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> I kinda wanna ignore the flamewars above here but now it makes me wanna try to get IO 5 stable at 4533... Let's goo.
> I finishes a 1.5hr test again with tWR 14 tCWL 14 and again 1 tier lower tRFC @ 340 now with 48500 tREFI.
> Perfectly stable so far in this specific test / scenario.
> 
> My CPU IMC and DIMM's really seem to like 4533 17-19-19 primaries. They run it very easily and I can change any subtiming I want without training failing or massive instability like 4400C16 did show. Still at the same vDIMM, same SA IO, again hovering between 44-45c for the DIMM's, CPU barely getting warm. It is underclocked compared to daily, which is 5.2/4/9 :$
> 
> After I know 100% sure the RAM will do a overnight run @ 5.0/4.7 i'll re-run it at full CPU speed to see if the cache is actually stable at 4.9 cause i have my doubts..
> 
> Well, off to see if I can get IOL to do 5/5 lol. On a MSI Ace. With 2x16GB DR B-Die..
> Or, on a more serious note, let's lower tCWL / tWR some more..
> 
> View attachment 2475931


Don't waste your time lowering iols with offset like i did, i just do it for fun, no performance gains. You need to focus on those tertiary timings, lots of performance loss here, don't be worried to drop frequency slightly if you loose too much efficiency by running loose tertiaries at higher frequency.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> Finally the noob appeared.
> y those two questions so difficut to answer eh. Yes yes a typo of a lengthy sentence when its few words was needed. Nevermind give u chance to redeem
> 
> nou wanna talk numbers..
> Its already here and i m12e thread, in 10900k thread and even that lowyat forum thread link i posted.
> Already went through your postings. 1 year noob. Asking help every where. Got apex. Saw how easy. Started now giving advice on ram oc and dare to critic others.
> As if you are an ambassador of apex.
> 
> shall we continue the next series of questions on your “ram knowledge”.
> 
> follow that scenario before
> 3)If tcl drops to 17 what changes in rtl/iol
> 4)If rtl maintained at 66/67 how to reduce iol
> to say 11??This a two parter mind ya. But i am sure you can google this.?
> 4) lets try something that not rtl related.
> what is the default odt of bdie for dual rank on asus z490.
> 5) what is turnaround timing algo?
> 
> Hey maybe u noob on rtl but 4-5 easy right. Come on. Show em google skills.
> 
> go aussie go. Show you are not full of air.


Dropping tcl to 17 will increase rtls by 2 per channel. ODTS i have tuned manually and this depends on cpu/ram sticks, 80/40/48 for me DLL 0. Once again ill ask for your setup with stability, please don't be embarrassed to show us. Also please try to speak in audible english, **** knows what you are trying to speak in that gibberish.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> It could be 10700k bro. Cause think i saw copy was lower when i was doing before i got all the 10900k.. i tested on 4x8gb 10700k was easier to train than 10900k got even 4266 easy.
> 10900k only@Esenel manage to do it on asus. He infact the only dude that didnt loose performance compared to other boards...
> I am actually not happy about dat. First time gave up on 4dimm which i been clocking 4 since ddr2..
> 
> will explain after he answered. I might as well give a whole guide now since rtl/iol eol after cometlake.


This is your setup?








Quite embarrassing for Z490 i must say, and 2x8 so the performance is trash. You talk a lot of talk but your daily is 50/45 on a 10900k with a trash memory setup .


----------



## seranidy

YaqY said:


> This is your setup?
> View attachment 2475937
> 
> Quite embarrassing for Z490 i must say, and 2x8 so the performance is trash. You talk a lot of talk but your daily is 50/45 on a 10900k with a trash memory setup .




This is that guys daily? ****ing hell I think my dog can probably to better tbh. That performance is ****ing awful


----------



## itssladenlol

cstkl1 said:


> It could be 10700k bro. Cause think i saw copy was lower when i was doing before i got all the 10900k.. i tested on 4x8gb 10700k was easier to train than 10900k got even 4266 easy.
> 10900k only@Esenel manage to do it on asus. He infact the only dude that didnt loose performance compared to other boards...
> I am actually not happy about dat. First time gave up on 4dimm which i been clocking 4 since ddr2..
> 
> will explain after he answered. I might as well give a whole guide now since rtl/iol eol after cometlake.


Highest i got was 4400 with 4x8gb trident Z royal 4000 c15 on maximus XII hero with 10900k. 
But that was like half a year ago. 
Im on apex with dual ranks now. 
Sadly nobody believes me and I didnt knew 4400 on 4x8gb z490 was considered special 😂


----------



## YaqY

itssladenlol said:


> Highest i got was 4400 with 4x8gb trident Z royal 4000 c15 on maximus XII hero with 10900k.
> But that was like half a year ago.
> Im on apex with dual ranks now.
> Sadly nobody believes me and I didnt knew 4400 on 4x8gb z490 was considered special 😂


I don't consider my setup special, i am just pushing the limits of my IMC here. Aida is a trash benchmark for ram performance regardless, favours 10900>10700>10600 in bandwidth tests due to core count but shows lower latency for 10600>10700>10900, Geek-bench 3 is a much more suitable benchmark.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> This is your setup?
> View attachment 2475937
> 
> Quite embarrassing for Z490 i must say, and 2x8 so the performance is trash. You talk a lot of talk but your daily is 50/45 on a 10900k with a trash memory setup .





seranidy said:


> This is that guys daily? ****ing hell I think my dog can probably to better tbh. That performance is ****ing awful


lol.. nice try... the noobness level.. of two ppl who dont even even belong in any of the threads and lurks around.. lol.

try finding it dufus.. daily is 24/7 [email protected] .. but hey 10900k old news...
can go even further right up to DDR2.. DDR3.. doesnt matter.. cause you buddy.. knows nothing...

dont answer the obvious question of " your ram expertise" 5 out of 5 man dont even know the answer.. tsk tsk tsk...

*what sad is you had to ask your lurker friend first post to help u.. so sad.. LOL...*
is that it...is that all you can talk smack this and that and nothing factual and nothing even about actual ram knowledge.

btw try .. try to atleast give some answer to 3-6... cause i am going to prep a RTL guide for the masses to correct all the misinformation since RTL / IOL is EOL in march.
even this i bet your mind has no clue and is a new information for you.


----------



## SoldierRBT

There's no need for a d*kc measurement contest. We all here to learn and share what we know to help each other. Please don't make this reddit


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> There's no need for a d*kc measurement contest. We all here to learn and share what we know to help each other. Please don't make this reddit


yeah sorry bro.. this dude seriously was like harassing everybody on reddit and then keep giving some absurd defense and then tried to even change the narrative to me against amd..
the amount of nonsense he kept posting defending some review that was so biased on both side testing with a cpu that was clearly unstable.. then he kept talking about himself as a judge of talent since he HAS and apex and only his word is factual.

i just took this opportunity to a q/a session so thought might as well do a full on RTL/IOL guide while at it before it becomes EOL in march. but clearly he not engaging since he couldn't answer the 1-2 and now i think from his search history which is so bad.. doubt he can even search the answer for 3-5

.. ( anybody with a brain knows i NEVER did 2 dimm oc until had no choice because of daisy chain.. and that time was doing 4x8gb.. and we were wondering why 4400 RTL's couldn't train.. so was testing each kit on 2 dimms.. ) .. this fella always changes the narrative and digresses to shy away that he knows nothing. 

so the best place was here in the stability thread where anybody can even show if i said anything false or he did.. but i think this dude wont .. 
really sad aint it.. calling a friend to post his 1st reply as a lurker to help him out.. its so hilarious and yet sad..

so how many ppl want a full detail RTL guide the simple easy way.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> Hmm, been a while since I actually had a BSOD (0x01c) while testing memory.. I dropped my tRCD and tRP from 19 to 18 @ 4533Mhz CAS 17 and it went fine for like 28 minutes in TM5 Anta777 Extreme but then out of nowhere with no errors in TM5 at that point it BSOD'd. Odd. What do you guys think caused it? VCCSA / IO? RAM Voltage? Skews?
> 
> I am now re-testing with lower tRAS (now at CAS + tRP + 2) and lower tRFC, so, 17-19-19-38-350-2T. If this passes 1 hour I will go on to secondaries like tWR/tCWL and tRTP and such, when those are at the lowest possible stable point I will go to tertiary timings like tWRWR and such.
> 
> EDIT: Stable as a rock. Under 45c for the DIMM's as well.
> 
> View attachment 2475913


its your trdwr.. its too big.. 
theres a perfect pairing betweel tcl, twcl and trdwr..for bdie it gets worse as u go higher on this value...


----------



## cstkl1

@Imprezzion
theres a post here somewhere by @OLDFATSHEEP when he was telling me about what toppc said.
on the relationship between those 3 timings...
its a CRUCIAL infact i say one of the most important piece of info ever posted on this thread.. so try to find it...


----------



## Imprezzion

Please, stop the public flame war.. 

I mean, your advice about trdwr is sound, and I appreciate it, found the post you mean. 

And no, FYI, I couldn't even POST IOL 5 so.. 6 did work, unstable as hell, but it worked. Back to 66/66/7/7 which is fine.

tWR 12 nope, tCWL 12, nope. 14's it is lol.
I'll go tweak the tertiaries to match kinda what that post said. If the dimms wanna do it of course.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> Please, stop the public flame war..
> 
> I mean, your advice about trdwr is sound, and I appreciate it, found the post you mean.
> 
> And no, FYI, I couldn't even POST IOL 5 so.. 6 did work, unstable as hell, but it worked. Back to 66/66/7/7 which is fine.
> 
> tWR 12 nope, tCWL 12, nope. 14's it is lol.
> I'll go tweak the tertiaries to match kinda what that post said. If the dimms wanna do it of course.


its one guy resorting to the only thing he knows bro.. to flame

anyway i think this will somehow encompass everything a person should know about rtl.. its damn simple


*How to reduce IOL and basically RTL/IOL guide.*

_Here a scenario,... gonna just state single rank for simplicity_

TCL 17, 2T
so rtl is 66,67,14,14, iol offset 21, 21
unpopulated RTL 74, IOL 4

_so we reduce both rtl and iol equally to the lowest point while maintaing iol offset 21
so say -7
so 59,60,7,7 @ iol offset 21,21

now how to reduce IOL
first
reduce init RTL
we know from unpopulated init RTL is 74.. so reduce until we find the lowest it can boot
so say this case its 62.
from unpopulated init iol offset is 4 based on IOL in unpopulated
so now u can enter

init RTL 62, init IOL offset 4,4
RTL 59,60,7,7, iol offset 21, 21_

*so how to reduce IOL*
_for every 1 value down in IOL, you must increase offset by 1 and increase INIT rtl by 2
so init 64, init iol offset 4,4
RTL 59,60,6,6, iol offset 22,22

so on and so on...

thats how u do it.
go as low as u want

but take note FFT112.. hehe.. this will not like low iol. _
*also changing to 1t*
_RTL reduces by 2 while IOL remains
so the case above from the start it be 64,65,14,14_
** the lowest init RTL also lowers by 2 btw. @ iol offset 21

*changing to CL16*
_RTL reduces by 2 while IOL remains
so the case above from the start it be 64,65,14,14_
** the lowest init RTL also lowers by 2 btw @ iol offset 21

*changing to CL18*
_RTL increases by 2 while IOL remains
so this case above the start is 68,69 14,14_
** the lowest init RTL also increases by 2 btw @ iol offset 21

_sometimes in 4dimm vs dual rank.. the lowest trained will not follow by just lowering/upping the RTL.
for m12e.. the easiest to test is 4266... .. CL 15 vs CL16 vs CL17 vs CL18.. its not linear for lowest RTL @ iol offset 21
4400 generally all CL16,CL17,CL18 is quite linear_
_the voltage that affects RTL - System agent voltage..._


tada a guide. simple easy..
if u need screenshots.. i can do it.. but it is going to take a while cause theres scenarios which changes

theres a few other things like Init IOL with iol offset. but i find messing with this without the option for RTL guard band kindda difficult.
theres a setting which i am sure some of you have seen called rtl guardband. afaik the default is 5... explored it for while and found it tedious.

also manipulation of rtl iol with init iol

if u can find my 4533C16 u will see me running i think 62,64 7,7 if i remember correctly.. been sometime...

but this is actually init iol 3,4 with iol offset 21,22

oh yeah dllwben its some intel tuning profile on mrc code afaik.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> Dropping tcl to 17 will increase rtls by 2 per channel. ODTS i have tuned manually and this depends on cpu/ram sticks, 80/40/48 for me DLL 0. Once again ill ask for your setup with stability, please don't be embarrassed to show us. Also please try to speak in audible english, **** knows what you are trying to speak in that gibberish.


Anyway better gibberish with facts than your nonsense. And think u mean show u. Theres no us since you literally not even here. Cause if you were you would know what i have.

3) rtl reduces by two dufus. He actually said increase. LOL

4) if you cant answer 1-3 how can u answer this. Read da guide. Get educated

5) this got to hand to ya. You were pretty close. 80,48,40.

anyway this my last interaction with ya. Cause doubt you will post anything meaningful to anybody but to yourself.Adios.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> Anyway better gibberish with facts than your nonsense. And think u mean show u. Theres no us since you literally not even here. Cause if you were you would know what i have.
> 
> 3) rtl reduces by two dufus. He actually said increase. LOL
> 
> 4) if you cant answer 1-3 how can u answer this. Read da guide. Get educated
> 
> 5) this got to hand to ya. You were pretty close. 80,48,40.
> 
> anyway this my last interaction with ya. Cause doubt you will post anything meaningful to anybody but to yourself.Adios.


Firstly i was saying TCL 16-17 so rtl increases by two . Secondly RTT's aren't the same for every user, this depends on the cpu and memory sticks, 80/48/40 wont work for everyone, i have friends using 80/48/48 and will be unstable on 80/48/40. Now please, stop with the direct insults and show me your daily performance i will wait, all i see if insults from you and no results . Sounds like a bit of insecurity to me, its alright we can't be the best at everything.


----------



## di3t

it is stable only with such timings, are there any tips on how to do it better?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Idk how I got linked to this but for real insults and d**k size comps don’t mean anything, we are here to learn from each other compare results, and share knowledge not bash people. and I’ve gotten iol5/5 and 4/4 stable at high frequency and passed 112fft. And 4-1024fft 8hr And 2hrs OCCT avx/sse Generally it will not work, but it is doable on apex and maybe dark.
Weird thing I can leave IOLs untuned and bump from 4700-16-16-16-36 tuned to 5000-17-17-17-37 untuned IOL just lowered RTL on 2 kits I’ve got at daily voltages. Still trying to stabilize 5k daily on one kit. But really need to put some time aside for DR kits and Aida is arbitrary for sure just a decent reference 



seranidy said:


> Still no picture of your profile and gb3
> 
> yikesss


----------



## Salve1412

cstkl1 said:


> its one guy resorting to the only thing he knows bro.. to flame
> 
> anyway i think this will somehow encompass everything a person should know about rtl.. its damn simple
> 
> 
> *How to reduce IOL and basically RTL/IOL guide.*
> 
> _Here a scenario,... gonna just state single rank for simplicity_
> 
> TCL 17, 2T
> so rtl is 66,67,14,14, iol offset 21, 21
> unpopulated RTL 74, IOL 4
> 
> _so we reduce both rtl and iol equally to the lowest point while maintaing iol offset 21
> so say -7
> so 59,60,7,7 @ iol offset 21,21
> 
> now how to reduce IOL
> first
> reduce init RTL
> we know from unpopulated init RTL is 74.. so reduce until we find the lowest it can boot
> so say this case its 62.
> from unpopulated init iol offset is 4 based on IOL in unpopulated
> so now u can enter
> 
> init RTL 62, init IOL offset 4,4
> RTL 59,60,7,7, iol offset 21, 21_
> 
> *so how to reduce IOL*
> _for every 1 value down in IOL, you must increase offset by 1 and increase INIT rtl by 2
> so init 64, init iol offset 4,4
> RTL 59,60,6,6, iol offset 22,22
> 
> so on and so on...
> 
> thats how u do it.
> go as low as u want
> 
> but take note FFT112.. hehe.. this will not like low iol. _
> *also changing to 1t*
> _RTL reduces by 2 while IOL remains
> so the case above from the start it be 64,65,14,14_
> ** the lowest init RTL also lowers by 2 btw. @ iol offset 21
> 
> *changing to CL16*
> _RTL reduces by 2 while IOL remains
> so the case above from the start it be 64,65,14,14_
> ** the lowest init RTL also lowers by 2 btw @ iol offset 21
> 
> *changing to CL18*
> _RTL increases by 2 while IOL remains
> so this case above the start is 68,69 14,14_
> ** the lowest init RTL also increases by 2 btw @ iol offset 21
> 
> _sometimes in 4dimm vs dual rank.. the lowest trained will not follow by just lowering/upping the RTL.
> for m12e.. the easiest to test is 4266... .. CL 15 vs CL16 vs CL17 vs CL18.. its not linear for lowest RTL @ iol offset 21
> 4400 generally all CL16,CL17,CL18 is quite linear_
> _the voltage that affects RTL - System agent voltage..._
> 
> 
> tada a guide. simple easy..
> if u need screenshots.. i can do it.. but it is going to take a while cause theres scenarios which changes
> 
> theres a few other things like Init IOL with iol offset. but i find messing with this without the option for RTL guard band kindda difficult.
> theres a setting which i am sure some of you have seen called rtl guardband. afaik the default is 5... explored it for while and found it tedious.
> 
> also manipulation of rtl iol with init iol
> 
> if u can find my 4533C16 u will see me running i think 62,64 7,7 if i remember correctly.. been sometime...
> 
> but this is actually init iol 3,4 with iol offset 21,22
> 
> oh yeah dllwben its some intel tuning profile on mrc code afaik.


Thanks a lot man, that was extremely useful information!


----------



## Placekicker19

cstkl1 said:


> its one guy resorting to the only thing he knows bro.. to flame
> 
> anyway i think this will somehow encompass everything a person should know about rtl.. its damn simple
> 
> 
> *How to reduce IOL and basically RTL/IOL guide.*
> 
> _Here a scenario,... gonna just state single rank for simplicity_
> 
> TCL 17, 2T
> so rtl is 66,67,14,14, iol offset 21, 21
> unpopulated RTL 74, IOL 4
> 
> _so we reduce both rtl and iol equally to the lowest point while maintaing iol offset 21
> so say -7
> so 59,60,7,7 @ iol offset 21,21
> 
> now how to reduce IOL
> first
> reduce init RTL
> we know from unpopulated init RTL is 74.. so reduce until we find the lowest it can boot
> so say this case its 62.
> from unpopulated init iol offset is 4 based on IOL in unpopulated
> so now u can enter
> 
> init RTL 62, init IOL offset 4,4
> RTL 59,60,7,7, iol offset 21, 21_
> 
> *so how to reduce IOL*
> _for every 1 value down in IOL, you must increase offset by 1 and increase INIT rtl by 2
> so init 64, init iol offset 4,4
> RTL 59,60,6,6, iol offset 22,22
> 
> so on and so on...
> 
> thats how u do it.
> go as low as u want
> 
> but take note FFT112.. hehe.. this will not like low iol. _
> *also changing to 1t*
> _RTL reduces by 2 while IOL remains
> so the case above from the start it be 64,65,14,14_
> ** the lowest init RTL also lowers by 2 btw. @ iol offset 21
> 
> *changing to CL16*
> _RTL reduces by 2 while IOL remains
> so the case above from the start it be 64,65,14,14_
> ** the lowest init RTL also lowers by 2 btw @ iol offset 21
> 
> *changing to CL18*
> _RTL increases by 2 while IOL remains
> so this case above the start is 68,69 14,14_
> ** the lowest init RTL also increases by 2 btw @ iol offset 21
> 
> _sometimes in 4dimm vs dual rank.. the lowest trained will not follow by just lowering/upping the RTL.
> for m12e.. the easiest to test is 4266... .. CL 15 vs CL16 vs CL17 vs CL18.. its not linear for lowest RTL @ iol offset 21
> 4400 generally all CL16,CL17,CL18 is quite linear_
> _the voltage that affects RTL - System agent voltage..._
> 
> 
> tada a guide. simple easy..
> if u need screenshots.. i can do it.. but it is going to take a while cause theres scenarios which changes
> 
> theres a few other things like Init IOL with iol offset. but i find messing with this without the option for RTL guard band kindda difficult.
> theres a setting which i am sure some of you have seen called rtl guardband. afaik the default is 5... explored it for while and found it tedious.
> 
> also manipulation of rtl iol with init iol
> 
> if u can find my 4533C16 u will see me running i think 62,64 7,7 if i remember correctly.. been sometime...
> 
> but this is actually init iol 3,4 with iol offset 21,22
> 
> oh yeah dllwben its some intel tuning profile on mrc code afaik.


Is there a benefit to lowering the unpopulated rtl and iol inits? My unpopulated rtls and iols are 71 71 4 4. Will lowering the unpopulated channels allow me to reduce rtls & iols further? The lowest rtl/iols I can reach r 63 64 8 8 stable @ 4600. Ive always been curious about lowering the unpopulated channels and if it was even necessary. Thanks for the guide.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Placekicker19 said:


> Is there a benefit to lowering the unpopulated rtl and iol inits? My unpopulated rtls and iols are 71 71 4 4. Will lowering the unpopulated channels allow me to reduce rtls & iols further? The lowest rtl/iols I can reach r 63 64 8 8 stable @ 4600. Ive always been curious about lowering the unpopulated channels and if it was even necessary. Thanks for the guide.


The RTL and IOL values of unpopulated slots has zero impact on memory performance (bandwidth or latency). Many people set these values to zero since there is no consequence in doing so, and it eliminates noisy information from timing readouts in BIOS / ASRock Timing Configurator / ASUS MemTweakIt.

On the other hand, cstkl1 raised a very interesting point regarding this just a few posts up. He suggested that looking at the values for these _unpopulated slots_ (when they are set to AUTO) can provide useful insight or guidance with respect to tightening the RTL / IOL values of the _populated slots_.


----------



## cstkl1

Placekicker19 said:


> Is there a benefit to lowering the unpopulated rtl and iol inits? My unpopulated rtls and iols are 71 71 4 4. Will lowering the unpopulated channels allow me to reduce rtls & iols further? The lowest rtl/iols I can reach r 63 64 8 8 stable @ 4600. Ive always been curious about lowering the unpopulated channels and if it was even necessary. Thanks for the guide.


nice. have you seen luumi timings.. been trying to do c18 @4800 with that dark 4600 preset.. 

unpopulated dimms
it just shows what init rtl/init iol is being used. theres nothing to train here. 
you can test this by disabling those dimms.


----------



## Arctucas

cstkl1 said:


> nice. have you seen luumi timings.. been trying to do c18 @4800 with that dark 4600 preset..
> 
> unpopulated dimms
> it just shows what init rtl/init iol is being used. theres nothing to train here.
> you can test this by disabling those dimms.


I have wondered why there are any values at all on a two DIMM slot board.


----------



## 7empe

SunnyStefan said:


> The RTL and IOL values of unpopulated slots has zero impact on memory performance (bandwidth or latency). Many people set these values to zero since there is no consequence in doing so, and it eliminates noisy information from timing readouts in BIOS / ASRock Timing Configurator / ASUS MemTweakIt.
> 
> On the other hand, cstkl1 raised a very interesting point regarding this just a few posts up. He suggested that looking at the values for these _unpopulated slots_ (when they are set to AUTO) can provide useful insight or guidance with respect to tightening the RTL / IOL values of the _populated slots_.


Just a short question regarding RTL/IOL. Assuming that I have found the tightest values like 60/61/61/62/7/7/7/7 for my 4x8GB 4100c16. Does changing ambient temperature by few degrees my influence their stability? In other words, if I don’t change anything in the bios, may I replace not only initial values and offsets but also given RTLs and IOLs when my mobo finally draw the tightest and symmetrical values?


----------



## japau

7empe said:


> Just a short question regarding RTL/IOL. Assuming that I have found the tightest values like 60/61/61/62/7/7/7/7 for my 4x8GB 4100c16. Does changing ambient temperature by few degrees my influence their stability? In other words, if I don’t change anything in the bios, may I replace not only initial values and offsets but also given RTLs and IOLs when my mobo finally draw the tightest and symmetrical values?












Only ever changed these values and locked the values manually after found the tightest stable they trained. No problems with memory have occured in last 3 years and i've tighten quite some.


----------



## Astral85

Could anyone help in getting my RAM to 3800MHz? I've tried loosening timings and upping the RAM voltage but keep getting MEM OK error. I'm not sure if I've loosened the timings correctly. I currently have my set 3466 set at 3733 1.39V stable. Not sure if I've hit the wall or are missing something. Below screenshot is when I oddly made it into Windows, ran RAM test for 15 mins and passed. Haven't been able to make it pass the BIOS since.


----------



## Imprezzion

Sounds like a training issue. Which mode are you using? And is RTL IO on auto? And which rtt skews?

Also, you might wanna try raising tCWL and tWR slightly to see if this helps. 17/15 are odd values and might not work well. Try 16 tCWL 18 tWR.

EDIT: Seems I cannot get tRDWR to do any less than 18-18-18-19 on 4533 17-19-19 base.. anything lower throws errors in TM5 within 40 minutes of a test while 18-18-18-19 did a overnight run just fine. To which voltage does tRDWR normally respond, just DRAM Voltage? I'm at 1.52v now and can't go much higher before the voltage itself brings instability.. about 1.54v is possible, above that the DIMM's get unhappy and won't run stable.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> Sounds like a training issue. Which mode are you using? And is RTL IO on auto? And which rtt skews?
> 
> Also, you might wanna try raising tCWL and tWR slightly to see if this helps. 17/15 are odd values and might not work well. Try 16 tCWL 18 tWR.
> 
> EDIT: Seems I cannot get tRDWR to do any less than 18-18-18-19 on 4533 17-19-19 base.. anything lower throws errors in TM5 within 40 minutes of a test while 18-18-18-19 did a overnight run just fine. To which voltage does tRDWR normally respond, just DRAM Voltage? I'm at 1.52v now and can't go much higher before the voltage itself brings instability.. about 1.54v is possible, above that the DIMM's get unhappy and won't run stable.


Can try bumping up SA/IO but if this doesn't help i suggest dropping the frequency slightly for tighter timings, the TRDWR values are very important for performance especially copy bandwidth. You are probably losing too much efficiency running that frequency with loose subs/tertiaries.


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> Can try bumping up SA/IO but if this doesn't help i suggest dropping the frequency slightly for tighter timings, the TRDWR values are very important for performance especially copy bandwidth. You are probably losing too much efficiency running that frequency with loose subs/tertiaries.


SA and IO cannot go higher. I already need 1.35v IO and 1.40v SA (under load more like 1.42v) to even run 4533 at all so no room there.

I was considering lower frequency but seeing how my specific dimms don't feel like 4400C16 whatsoever at any voltage I decided to run higher frequency. I can do either 4400 17-17-17 with marginally tighter subs (15-15-16-16 tRDWR) or 4200 15-17-17 with 12 tRDWR but the lower frequency actually benches worse numbers in AIDA compared to 4533 17-19-19, especially read write and latency about 0.5ns average higher. Copy is about the same between all 3 of those.


----------



## 7empe

di3t said:


> it is stable only with such timings, are there any tips on how to do it better?
> View attachment 2476038


Looks like you still have some room to improve, especially around RTL/IO-L. This is what I am using with my Patriot Viper Steel 4400 (VCCIO 1.28V, VCCSA 1.35V, VDIMM 1.500V). Btw. do you really need VCCIO that high for 47x cache?


----------



## di3t

7empe said:


> Looks like you still have some room to improve, especially around RTL/IO-L. This is what I am using with my Patriot Viper Steel 4400 (VCCIO 1.28V, VCCSA 1.35V, VDIMM 1.500V). Btw. do you really need VCCIO that high for 47x cache?
> View attachment 2476259
> View attachment 2476260


I have already turned down SAO IO and DIMM voltage. But it is stable only at such a frequency and with such timings, the 4400 frequency is also taken, but I cannot pass the test stably. the worst of the z490 motherboards is Evga z490 dark


----------



## di3t

7empe said:


> Looks like you still have some room to improve, especially around RTL/IO-L. This is what I am using with my Patriot Viper Steel 4400 (VCCIO 1.28V, VCCSA 1.35V, VDIMM 1.500V). Btw. do you really need VCCIO that high for 47x cache?
> View attachment 2476259
> View attachment 2476260


dimm = 1.47 io 1.3 sao 1.33


----------



## Imprezzion

Nope, none of my tertiary timings will budge off Auto whatsoever on 4533 17-19-19-38. At least not without playing with voltages probably which I really have zero headroom in except for DRAM maybe.. 

I am however trying to get as low as possible on the tRFC now. I was running a relatively "safe" 340, down 10 every time with a quick 1h TM5 run to see where it gets really unstable, 300 seemed to work but spit out 12 errors 38 minutes into TM5, going 320 now.


----------



## ViTosS

When I tested [email protected] I had an auto IOL of 14 and I reduced to 7, tried TM5 and unstable, is there a possibility if I test again at higher IOL like 8 I can be stable? I mean, I could boot fine at 7-7, usually when I can't use some IOL I can't even boot...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ViTosS said:


> When I tested [email protected] I had an auto IOL of 14 and I reduced to 7, tried TM5 and unstable, is there a possibility if I test again at higher IOL like 8 I can be stable? I mean, I could boot fine at 7-7, usually when I can't use some IOL I can't even boot...


Can try IOL offset 15 first.


----------



## ViTosS

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Can try IOL offset 15 first.


The method I did to tweak was to reduce RTL the same amount I reduce in IOL (I think Carillo told me that), if I have an RTL auto at 69 and IOL at 14, so I set RTL at 62 and IOL 7 (reduce 7 from both) and this way seems to be working fine...


----------



## Imprezzion

I do it a completely different way. I always try to drop RTL as far as it'll go first, then IOL. For 4533C17 that was 67/67/7/7. Honestly I still don't know what the "perfect combinations" are and I just set whatever works lol.


----------



## Salve1412

Well, it has been a bit psychologically painful since past 4400MHz this board acts in a really erratic way, but after more than a dozen reboots with forced re-trainings (by minimal tREFI changes) and little voltage adjustments I could at least pass TM5 1usmus v3 25 cycles and 1h GSAT twice each. Still don't trust it so much, of course, especially considering GSAT and its tendency to fail far more frequently than any other RAM oriented test I know, at least at 4533. I'll do more thorough RAM tests before moving to Prime 112k. Thanks again to @cstkl1 for the insights into RTLs/IOLs he gave some posts ago.


----------



## Imprezzion

Do CAS, tRP and tRCD effect read write a lot as well? You get over 70GB/s at 16-17-17 while I barely scratch 68GB/s at 17-19-19. I feel like 4533 17-19-19 isn't as efficient for my setup as it could be but yeah my DIMM's just don't wanna do any better unfortunately. Maybe next week I'll try for 4600Mhz.. got a little bit of voltage headroom on the DIMM's but not on my SA IO so I hope my IMC will do 4600 on the same SA IO...


----------



## YaqY

Salve1412 said:


> Well, it has been a bit psychologically painful since past 4400MHz this board acts in a really erratic way, but after more than a dozen reboots with forced re-trainings (by minimal tREFI changes) and little voltage adjustments I could at least pass TM5 1usmus v3 25 cycles and 1h GSAT twice each. Still don't trust it so much, of course, especially considering GSAT and its tendency to fail far more frequently than any other RAM oriented test I know, at least at 4533. I'll do more thorough RAM tests before moving to Prime 112k. Thanks again to @cstkl1 for the insights into RTLs/IOLs he gave some posts ago.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2476362
> View attachment 2476363


Weird, have you had issues running trefi maxed out?


----------



## Salve1412

YaqY said:


> Weird, have you had issues running trefi maxed out?


Not really, I simply prefer to run it lower than maximum value in general: the minimal changes I was talking about in tREFI between a reboot and the other (e.g. 53036 to 53035 and vice versa) were to force a retrain with next to zero differences in timings. It seems that after quite some attempts the board managed to find a more stable configuration, at least for the moment.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

ViTosS said:


> When I tested [email protected] I had an auto IOL of 14 and I reduced to 7, tried TM5 and unstable, is there a possibility if I test again at higher IOL like 8 I can be stable? I mean, I could boot fine at 7-7, usually when I can't use some IOL I can't even boot...


There will be no difference between IOL 7/7 and 8/8 on RTL if you work them right but IOL-7 gave me instability. 
I just finished 4600-16-16-16-36-2t-360 
Tm5 anta777 extreme 3 passes, OCCT memtest sse/avx 2hrs each, OCCT largedata 2hrs and 30 mins p95 112fft and 6hrs of p95 4-1024fft 

Now just playing with twr lower than 16 did nothing in Aida, tcwl -15, 14 slight benefit but might not be stable, trp same just makes things unhappy.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Salve1412 said:


> Not really, I simply prefer to run it lower than maximum value in general: the minimal changes I was talking about in tREFI between a reboot and the other (e.g. 53036 to 53035 and vice versa) were to force a retrain with next to zero differences in timings. It seems that after quite some attempts the board managed to find a more stable configuration, at least for the moment.


That’s not the way to do it, if anything do a full power down and shut of psu, for testing true stability of retraining. Doing small changes will only partial retrain, which you will regret later. Or disable fast boot. When I tune I always shut off fast boot test, rinse repeat. Then I do full psu power down multiple times and tm5 and large dataset OCCT to make sure everything is stable and repeatable for daily use.


----------



## SunnyStefan

MericaShotUrAss said:


> I just finished *4600-16-16-16-36-2t-360*
> Tm5 anta777 extreme 3 passes, OCCT memtest sse/avx 2hrs each, OCCT largedata 2hrs and 30 mins p95 112fft and 6hrs of p95 4-1024fft


*4600-16-16-16-36-2t-360 *is a stellar overclock, well done! This is with 2x16GB or 2x8GB? 
I want to ask a million questions but I'm going to restrain myself (somewhat).
Mind sharing your timings (ASrock Timing Configurator / MemTweakIt) + your VDIMM / VCCSA / VCCIO voltage values?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

SunnyStefan said:


> *4600-16-16-16-36-2t-360 *is a stellar overclock, well done! This is with 2x16GB or 2x8GB?
> I want to ask a million questions but I'm going to restrain myself (somewhat).
> Mind sharing your timings (ASrock Timing Configurator / MemTweakIt) + your VDIMM / VCCSA / VCCIO voltage values?











1.6vdimm
1.30v IO
1.33v SA
Gskill 3200-14-14-14-34-1.35v kit


----------



## Nizzen

MericaShotUrAss said:


> View attachment 2476417
> 
> 1.6vdimm
> 1.30v IO
> 1.33v SA
> Gskill 3200-14-14-14-34-1.35v kit


Nice job !

One of the best results I ever saw with 2x16


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> View attachment 2476417
> 
> 1.6vdimm
> 1.30v IO
> 1.33v SA
> Gskill 3200-14-14-14-34-1.35v kit


Nice  
You can use Lightshot or snippytool for screenshots 
Have you tried the same overclock with the latest BIOS? I see a few people still on the 0088
Will it pass GSAT? Just curious if you've tested it with it


----------



## Salve1412

MericaShotUrAss said:


> That’s not the way to do it, if anything do a full power down and shut of psu, for testing true stability of retraining. Doing small changes will only partial retrain, which you will regret later. Or disable fast boot. When I tune I always shut off fast boot test, rinse repeat. Then I do full psu power down multiple times and tm5 and large dataset OCCT to make sure everything is stable and repeatable for daily use.


So is retraining unavoidable after a full shut of the PSU, even if I enable Memory Fast Boot? Because this board doesn't seem to be consistently training frequencies past 4400MHz (at least in my experience), so I'm not doing those small tREFI changes to test the stability of retraining, as I think you understood. I'm actually looking for the board to reach an (apparently) stable configuration (which after some attempts it seems to be able to do) by retraining with eventual voltages increments a previously unstable and almost identical frequency(4533)/timings combo (tREFI being the only element to change by one digit), and then lock that configuration by enabling Memory Fast boot. The goal would be to avoid retraining at all. I guess I can easily have a demnostration that this is flawed methodology by shutting down PSU and retesting the overclock. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Nice
> You can use Lightshot or snippytool for screenshots
> Have you tried the same overclock with the latest BIOS? I see a few people still on the 0088
> Will it pass GSAT? Just curious if you've tested it with it


I don’t use gsat but I don’t see why it won’t, I have always found OCCT large dataset will reveal even the slightest instability, along with OCCT memtest, I ram almost identical settings only difference is trdrd_dr-5 instead of 7 for 6hrs OCCT large data and avx memtest also ran 24 cycles of linpack extreme 😉 to verify my cache is still stable and will do that back up to 54/51cache
I’m gonna run some geek3 and then see what this kit can really do at big boy voltages, I’ve had it into windows and benched at 4800-14-14-14-28-2t when I first got it then put it aside because still was benching SR kits.
Oh I was sending to friend easier to take pic on phone and send it than have to email pic and everything to myself, if I was benching for validation I would screen shot.


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> I don’t use gsat but I don’t see why it won’t, I have always found OCCT large dataset will reveal even the slightest instability, along with OCCT memtest, I ram almost identical settings only difference is trdrd_dr-5 instead of 7 for 6hrs OCCT large data and avx memtest also ran 24 cycles of linpack extreme 😉 to verify my cache is still stable and will do that back up to 54/51cache
> I’m gonna run some geek3 and then see what this kit can really do at big boy voltages, I’ve had it into windows and benched at 4800-14-14-14-28-2t when I first got it then put it aside because still was benching SR kits.
> Oh I was sending to friend easier to take pic on phone and send it than have to email pic and everything to myself, if I was benching for validation I would screen shot.


I can't get my io and sa voltages anywhere near that
Seems like a pretty good CPU/IMC if it will run 54/51 
Any chance of a rig build in your sig with SP etc?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Salve1412 said:


> So is retraining unavoidable after a full shut of the PSU, even if I enable Memory Fast Boot? Because this board doesn't seem to be consistently training frequencies past 4400MHz (at least in my experience), so I'm not doing those small tREFI changes to test the stability of retraining, as I think you understood. I'm actually looking for the board to reach an (apparently) stable configuration (which after some attempts it seems to be able to do) by retraining with eventual voltages increments a previously unstable and almost identical frequency(4533)/timings combo (tREFI being the only element to change by one digit), and then lock that configuration by enabling Memory Fast boot. The goal would be to avoid retraining at all. I guess I can easily have a demnostration that this is flawed methodology by shutting down PSU and retesting the overclock. Thanks for the tip.


Yes retraining is unavoidable and if your overclock won’t repeat training well u can be very screwed, I’ve learned the hard way, on z390 master, destroyed an OS and couple games cough MW/Warzone because I had training voltage set little bit too high, and it would train the same set of RTL/IOL almost every time, but every once in a while it would train slightly tighter, completely unstable, until I lowered training voltage then it always repeated. I tested full retraining for a week straight 6-8hr tests full psu off and am still doing that right now on apex but it’s golden so far doubt on this board it will change, haven’t had any problems like that even running 4700-16-16-16-32-2t-300 SR which was what I was daily driving


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> I can't get my io and sa voltages anywhere near that
> Seems like a pretty good CPU/IMC if it will run 54/51
> Any chance of a rig build in your sig with SP etc?


It’s kinda god tier chip, benches 5.6/54 fairly easily but IMC is insane, does 4800+ -14-14-14-28-1t-280-SR 1.32v IO 1.40v-1.45v SA


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Nice
> You can use Lightshot or snippytool for screenshots
> Have you tried the same overclock with the latest BIOS? I see a few people still on the 0088
> Will it pass GSAT? Just curious if you've tested it with it


Oh I will revisit bios 1003 I played with it for about 2 hrs after I corrupted bios and that’s what I flashed to restore bios, had a couple issues! And I noticed CBR20 score dropped a little, only tested it really quick and had some issues with DR kit and flashed 0088 back. Will prob flash 2nd bios chip with 1003 unless there is something better and try it out with a SR kit I haven’t played with yet really gonna just go quick and dirty on that kit it either does 4800-16-16-16-32/36-2t-280/300 tuned IOL/RTL or it better 5000c17 or it’s gonna be chilling for a while with my other SR kits.


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Oh I will revisit bios 1003 I played with it for about 2 hrs after I corrupted bios and that’s what I flashed to restore bios, had a couple issues! And I noticed CBR20 score dropped a little, only tested it really quick and had some issues with DR kit and flashed 0088 back. Will prob flash 2nd bios chip with 1003 unless there is something better and try it out with a SR kit I haven’t played with yet really gonna just go quick and dirty on that kit it either does 4800-16-16-16-32/36-2t-280/300 tuned IOL/RTL or it better 5000c17 or it’s gonna be chilling for a while with my other SR kits.


Crazy 
I have a feeling that CPU will be competitive for some generations to come 
Do you have anything against the 2004 BIOS that I'm running?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Crazy
> I have a feeling that CPU will be competitive for some generations to come
> Do you have anything against the 2004 BIOS that I'm running?


Haven’t tried it, I benched and made daily profiles on test bench last yr and then for couple months 10900k/apex chilled on test bench with capture card running my stream and I would bench a ram kit here and there been on 0088 since the beginning, now it’s swapped into my game rig, needed a break from ram after 20+ SR kits binned and benched last yr right as I got started on DR, had the chance to finally go balls out on DR for daily with the right mindset and got damn near everything I wanted, really want 4700-16-16-16-36-2t but this kit may not do it, waiting for a 3800c14 DR kit still.

How is stability on 1003/2004 in your opinion compared to 0088? I’m still on 2080ti waiting for kingpin 3090 if it’s gonna happen.


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Haven’t tried it, I benched and made daily profiles on test bench last yr and then for couple months 10900k/apex chilled on test bench with capture card running my stream and I would bench a ram kit here and there been on 0088 since the beginning, now it’s swapped into my game rig, needed a break from ram after 20+ SR kits binned and benched last yr right as I got started on DR, had the chance to finally go balls out on DR for daily with the right mindset and got damn near everything I wanted, really want 4700-16-16-16-36-2t but this kit may not do it, waiting for a 3800c14 DR kit still.
> 
> How is stability on 1003/2004 in your opinion compared to 0088? I’m still on 2080ti waiting for kingpin 3090 if it’s gonna happen.


On 2004 I'm running 4500-16-17-17-36 for my daily, it would probably run 4533 rock solid but I like round numbers 
Thought I had 4600c16 solid for a few weeks (was fully tested with Extreme1 and GSAT) but we have a heat wave now and I crashed out of BFV once so I reverted. Thinking about it I had been using Afterburner to overclock the GPU and it might have left the settings active after I quit out of it and I forgot to revert it.
Also had 4700-16-17-17-36 running windows and benching but errors in long GSAT runs
My voltages are much higher than yours also


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> On 2004 I'm running 4500-16-17-17-36 for my daily, it would probably run 4533 rock solid but I like round numbers
> Thought I had 4600c16 solid for a few weeks (was fully tested with Extreme1 and GSAT) but we have a heat wave now and I crashed out of BFV once so I reverted. Thinking about it I had been using Afterburner to overclock the GPU and it might have left the settings active after I quit out of it and I forgot to revert it.
> Also had 4700-16-17-17-36 running windows and benching but errors in long GSAT runs
> My voltages are much higher than yours also


How is cpu stability as well? May give it a try, I have all my data for 5.3-5.6 all core and caches speeds, done with 4600-17-17-17-37-2t-300 as tight as u can go SR for references but I do 5.4/51cache non avx 1.305 llc5 and 1.335v avx on SR. It’s 1.36v avx DR now haven’t finished requalifying hoping I can still do 5.5/51 but doesn’t matter gains I seen already in DR performance in warzone are nice.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Nice job !
> 
> One of the best results I ever saw with 2x16


?? err didnt i post those like few times..never got a good job. much harder than da auto oc apex.. .. 

afaik dual ranks on asus stable still that chinese dude and safedisk @1.55 / 1.53 4700c17 @ apex. 

safedisk timings however was the best. no compromise




__ https://www.facebook.com/100000028401166/posts/5165974600080102


----------



## cstkl1

like da troll before said.. i got to "beg"


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> ?? err didnt i post those like few times..never got a good job. much harder than da auto oc apex.. ..
> 
> afaik dual ranks on asus stable still that chinese dude and safedisk @1.55 / 1.53 4700c17 @ apex.
> 
> safedisk timings however was the best. no compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/100000028401166/posts/5165974600080102


Good job to you too 😘


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Good job to you too 😘


he gone djr bro

doing crazy stuff
the 4800 kit from this brand v-color


----------



## 7empe

Hey, I am struggling to reach stable 4x8GB 4200+ MHz with my Viper Steel 4400 combined with 10900KF and Maximus XII Extreme mobo. So far I managed to reach fully stable 4133 16-16-36 with reasonable voltages:

VDDR 1.48V
VCCIO 1.28V
VCCSA 1.33V










Any hints, ideas, recommendations how to reach (by loosing some timings, increasing voltages etc.) 4200 or 4266? Maybe someone tried similar setup and has some experience to share? I've booted successfully with 4266 16-16-36 and VDDR increased to 1.52V and VCCSA to 1.35V, but Karhu Memtest complains after few minutes... Or maybe I am out of luck with my IMC and 4133 is all I can do? Thoughts?


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> Hey, I am struggling to reach stable 4x8GB 4200+ MHz with my Viper Steel 4400 combined with 10900KF and Maximus XII Extreme mobo. So far I managed to reach fully stable 4133 16-16-36 with reasonable voltages:
> 
> VDDR 1.48V
> VCCIO 1.28V
> VCCSA 1.33V
> 
> View attachment 2476503
> 
> 
> Any hints, ideas, recommendations how to reach (by loosing some timings, increasing voltages etc.) 4200 or 4266? Maybe someone tried similar setup and has some experience to share? I've booted successfully with 4266 16-16-36 and VDDR increased to 1.52V and VCCSA to 1.35V, but Karhu Memtest complains after few minutes... Or maybe I am out of luck with my IMC and 4133 is all I can do? Thoughts?


Is the CPU 100% stable?
What tests have you run on it and what LLC and vcore?
What is the SP rating on it?
Can you run 1Hr 112ffts in place no avx in P95?
Just need to be sure before you move on 
I'm not really sure of the limit with 4 dimms on that board


----------



## 7empe

munternet said:


> Is the CPU 100% stable?
> What tests have you run on it and what LLC and vcore?
> What is the SP rating on it?
> Can you run 1Hr 112ffts in place no avx in P95?
> Just need to be sure before you move on
> I'm not really sure of the limit with 4 dimms on that board


Thanks for replying.

Yes, CPU is 100% stable. It is 5.1 GHz all-core with 0 AVX offset, cache 4.8 GHz. Vcore is 1.36V (bios), LLC5 (8 is max on that board). SP for the CPU is unprecedented 53 (!). However it is fully stable (2h of prime95 with AVX, small FFT, max temp 80C thanks to custom watercooling). No AVX is also stable, however it cannot be pushed any further, no matter of the voltage applied (tried Vcore up to 1.42V). Well, it can be pushed to 5140 MHz thanks to base clock uptick, but 1.4V to keep that stable is pointless.

As for the RAM, in 2x8 GB configuration of the same sticks this IMC could handle 4600 CL17. It is a daisy-chain topology on that board, however I hope it can do more than 4133 CL16 for 4x8GB. I went through the builzoid's video and he could reach 4266 with 4 DIMMs, so either my IMC cannot do this or I'm messing with the timings too much.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> ?? err didnt i post those like few times..never got a good job. much harder than da auto oc apex.. ..
> 
> afaik dual ranks on asus stable still that chinese dude and safedisk @1.55 / 1.53 4700c17 @ apex.
> 
> safedisk timings however was the best. no compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/100000028401166/posts/5165974600080102


The Apex XII is awesome, Push it to the Limit^^.
70k Copy^^


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

It’s amazing what you can do on these board!


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> Thanks for replying.
> 
> Yes, CPU is 100% stable. It is 5.1 GHz all-core with 0 AVX offset, cache 4.8 GHz. Vcore is 1.36V (bios), LLC5 (8 is max on that board). SP for the CPU is unprecedented 53 (!). However it is fully stable (2h of prime95 with AVX, small FFT, max temp 80C thanks to custom watercooling). No AVX is also stable, however it cannot be pushed any further, no matter of the voltage applied (tried Vcore up to 1.42V). Well, it can be pushed to 5140 MHz thanks to base clock uptick, but 1.4V to keep that stable is pointless.
> 
> As for the RAM, in 2x8 GB configuration of the same sticks this IMC could handle 4600 CL17. It is a daisy-chain topology on that board, however I hope it can do more than 4133 CL16 for 4x8GB. I went through the builzoid's video and he could reach 4266 with 4 DIMMs, so either my IMC cannot do this or I'm messing with the timings too much.


Yes, daisy chain makes it tough
Any thoughts of changing to DR 2x16GB or do you want to see how far you can go with these sticks? Almost seems like a waste of that board...
I found having no temp sensors on my Vipers was a bit of a nuisance when pushing them so I sold them and moved on

On another note, why use LLC5? The M12E has the best VRM of the lot doesn't it? Better than the Apex. I use LLC7 1.32v set with good results. I know you have SP 53 but won't it benefit from the tightest LLC the VRM will handle?
That said 5.1 GHz is pretty good for that SP 

@PhoenixMDA do you have a configurator shot to go with that result? Good boost on 3200c14 sticks


----------



## PhoenixMDA

munternet said:


> @PhoenixMDA do you have a configurator shot to go with that result? Good boost on 3200c14 sticks


If you drive higher Power/Frequency you can go lower with Load Voltage LLC 5 or 6 then 7.I drive LLC5 for me the best.
Yes i have, one Important thing is tRTP, the Windows is small to drive that stable.

P.s. i post it later


----------



## 7empe

munternet said:


> Yes, daisy chain makes it tough
> Any thoughts of changing to DR 2x16GB or do you want to see how far you can go with these sticks? Almost seems like a waste of that board...
> I found having no temp sensors on my Vipers was a bit of a nuisance when pushing them so I sold them and moved on
> 
> On another note, why use LLC5? The M12E has the best VRM of the lot doesn't it? Better than the Apex. I use LLC7 1.32v set with good results. I know you have SP 53 but won't it benefit from the tightest LLC the VRM will handle?
> That said 5.1 GHz is pretty good for that SP
> 
> @PhoenixMDA do you have a configurator shot to go with that result? Good boost on 3200c14 sticks


I am thinking about moving to 2x16GB to reach at least 4600, but for now I want to push Vipers to their limits... LLC5 is slightly droopy and I prefer to work with small drop on Vcore than overshoot. Honestly, I do not see any benefits of going with higher LLC as long as transients are not a concern 

As for my 5.1 GHz I was supprised that I can get there with SP 53 chip, especially with AVX also at 5.1 GHz. Maybe I will have more luck with 11900k...


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> I am thinking about moving to 2x16GB to reach at least 4600, but for now I want to push Vipers to their limits... LLC5 is slightly droopy and I prefer to work with small drop on Vcore than overshoot. Honestly, I do not see any benefits of going with higher LLC as long as transients are not a concern
> 
> As for my 5.1 GHz I was supprised that I can get there with SP 53 chip, especially with AVX also at 5.1 GHz. Maybe I will have more luck with 11900k...


Might be worth checking your IMC on a decent pair of sticks first. You never know...
I wonder if it's really going to be worth changing to the 11900k?
The only thing that would make me change is if the IMC is way better than the 10900k. Otherwise I will wait
Are they dropping the core count so it doesn't encroach on the HEDT market??
Still undecided really


----------



## 7empe

munternet said:


> Might be worth checking your IMC on a decent pair of sticks first. You never know...
> I wonder if it's really going to be worth changing to the 11900k?
> The only thing that would make me change is if the IMC is way better than the 10900k. Otherwise I will wait
> Are they dropping the core count so it doesn't encroach on the HEDT market??
> Still undecided really


In your opinion, what is a decent 2x16GB set I could target for M12E and high frequency with tight timings?

I am going to switch to 11900k if IPC improvement will be reasonable (+4 additional PCIE lines is also a +). Switching from 10 cores back to 8 needs to have a good justification. Of course PCIe gen 4 is also a benefit, especially that M12E supports it not only for PCIEx16 but most probably also for DIMM.2 slot for M.2 SSD...


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@munternet
It´s the best Kit of 5 pcs.
For 4600/4700 it´s also necessary to have a good IMC and the right Bios values.









My CPU is very good, IMC is also better, low voltage 5,[email protected],137V 16°H2O with HS untouched.


----------



## munternet

PhoenixMDA said:


> @munternet
> It´s the best Kit of 5 pcs.
> For 4600/4700 it´s also necessary to have a good IMC and the right Bios values.
> View attachment 2476595
> 
> 
> My CPU is very good, IMC is also better, low voltage 5,[email protected],137V 16°H2O with HS untouched.
> View attachment 2476596


Thanks 
and have you set the ODT skews manually or are they on auto?
I had a 4700c16 running windows and benching but it wasn't stable
Also sometimes if I made a small change to the tertiaries it wouldn't revert back to the previous settings unless I reflashed the BIOS. I'm guessing there may have been some corruption 
I see you don't reduce tWR, same as @OLDFATSHEEP 
I tried that myself and it seems to help for pushing the limits


----------



## PhoenixMDA

That was only a Test, tWR goes lower, and tRTP min 10 but not testet.
If you drive only DDR4 [email protected], you cant drive tRTP 6.You need also higher value and that at low Frequency.
At 4600CL17-17 i can drive tRTP at 6.
ODT you must set.

It gives many possibility to get a setting stable.
The ApexXII training Slope and BL very well, so you dont must do much.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Its easier than 4x8gb Z390 on Wifi XI.


----------



## Imprezzion

So, me pushing tRTP 8 and tWR 14 on 4533 might actually be holding me back from getting better primaries?


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> So, me pushing tRTP 8 and tWR 14 on 4533 might actually be holding me back from getting better primaries?


It is possible
That's how I got a stable 4600c16 that passed GSAT and Extreme1
I dropped back to 4500 for the daily because of the ambient temps and the high voltages but these are the basic settings with TWRPRE and tWR on auto not tightened







@PhoenixMDA has a much lower voltage and more refined setup than me though


----------



## PhoenixMDA

7empe said:


> In your opinion, what is a decent 2x16GB set I could target for M12E and high frequency with tight timings?
> 
> I am going to switch to 11900k if IPC improvement will be reasonable (+4 additional PCIE lines is also a +). Switching from 10 cores back to 8 needs to have a good justification. Of course PCIe gen 4 is also a benefit, especially that M12E supports it not only for PCIEx16 but most probably also for DIMM.2 slot for M.2 SSD...


I dont really know it but i think it was said only the Extreme can do PCI-E 4.0 at all.
Z490 Motherboards PCIe Gen 4 Support Detailed: MSI, Gigabyte & ASRock Lead While ASUS Falls Behind


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

2*32GB 4266 16-19 with tightened sub timings. AIDA latency breaks 37ns.

VDIMM 1.5V, IO 1.35V, SA 1.42V.


----------



## BobBobFSGG

Would like some advice on the GSkill kits for my config (10900K/Apex XII):

[Ripjaws V]

[$341/€282] F4-4000C16D-32GVK
[$354/€292] F4-4000C17D-32GVKB
[$444/€367] F4-4266C17D-32GVKB

[Trident Z RGB]

[$442/€365] F4-4000C16D-32GTZR
[Not Available] F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB
[Not Available] F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB

Royals in those configs are all unavailable as well. As i understood from reading the only difference between RJV and TZRGB/RS/RG is that latter all have temp sensors, which is handy while trying to push memory to the max/monitors the stability. Otherwise all RGB kits are identical, besides looks.

Should i look into some 3200/3600/3800 C14 kits as well? I can post detailed pricing on those, but on first look they are either same pricing or more expensive than above kits. So yeah...

Would like to order something before end of the day (~12hrs from now).


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Imprezzion said:


> So, me pushing tRTP 8 and tWR 14 on 4533 might actually be holding me back from getting better primaries?


I think it´s more a question of voltage and other values.But you can test it.
It´s a little bit difficult to explain, CL16 is very easy to training and you can drive fast Sub´s, you can give more Voltage with no Problems.
CL17 and CL18 it´s not good to give to much VDimm, you get the error 2C, you must drive less Voltage and must look how fast the Sub´s can be at this Voltage.
A other thing is the IMC, in some Cases like CL17 it´s good to give more Vref(the multiplier for Voltage of the Bitline´s to the CPU).
That can bring that you can boot CL17 in cases that it isn´t bootable or GSat stability.
Here is a summary for BL/Slopé what that is, sry but i have done in german.









In practice CL17 is good to test higher Vref 0.5-0.55 and CL18 lower 0,48-0,5, and the VDimm higher or lower 1.52-1.59V.
At CL17/18 i can drive IO/SA a little bit lower.
Also important Late/early Command set it antivalent, at CL16 i need early at CL17 i need late.I use only RoundTrip training
Take a look at my 24/7 in that case it´s necessary to set Vref to 0.525 to get it rockstable in GSat with low Voltage on VDimm.
At 4700CL17-18 i dont need to set Vref


----------



## munternet

BobBobFSGG said:


> Would like some advice on the GSkill kits for my config (10900K/Apex XII):
> 
> [Ripjaws V]
> 
> [$341/€282] F4-4000C16D-32GVK
> [$354/€292] F4-4000C17D-32GVKB
> [$444/€367] F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
> 
> [Trident Z RGB]
> 
> [$442/€365] F4-4000C16D-32GTZR
> [Not Available] F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB
> [Not Available] F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB
> 
> Royals in those configs are all unavailable as well. As i understood from reading the only difference between RJV and TZRGB/RS/RG is that latter all have temp sensors, which is handy while trying to push memory to the max/monitors the stability. Otherwise all RGB kits are identical, besides looks.
> 
> Should i look into some 3200/3600/3800 C14 kits as well? I can post detailed pricing on those, but on first look they are either same pricing or more expensive than above kits. So yeah...
> 
> Would like to order something before end of the day (~12hrs from now).


I have the F4-4266C17D-32GVKB and they do ok but I'm water cooled so I don't want the lights
Pays to look at the voltages for the frequency or so I'm told


----------



## cstkl1

BobBobFSGG said:


> Would like some advice on the GSkill kits for my config (10900K/Apex XII):
> 
> [Ripjaws V]
> 
> [$341/€282] F4-4000C16D-32GVK
> [$354/€292] F4-4000C17D-32GVKB
> [$444/€367] F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
> 
> [Trident Z RGB]
> 
> [$442/€365] F4-4000C16D-32GTZR
> [Not Available] F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB
> [Not Available] F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB
> 
> Royals in those configs are all unavailable as well. As i understood from reading the only difference between RJV and TZRGB/RS/RG is that latter all have temp sensors, which is handy while trying to push memory to the max/monitors the stability. Otherwise all RGB kits are identical, besides looks.
> 
> Should i look into some 3200/3600/3800 C14 kits as well? I can post detailed pricing on those, but on first look they are either same pricing or more expensive than above kits. So yeah...
> 
> Would like to order something before end of the day (~12hrs from now).


having had 4000c17 and 4266c17.. and friend 4000c16 , two 3200c14 kit
all sn week 40 year 2020 onwards.. 
lucky draw bro.. no point paying premium for 4266c17 & 4000c16.


----------



## cstkl1

back in october. best i could do for bench stable on m12e.

retrospect should have ran dd value 4 and tcke 4

c15 was what i ran most of da time on benches just add another 0.1v


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think it´s more a question of voltage and other values.But you can test it.
> It´s a little bit difficult to explain, CL16 is very easy to training and you can drive fast Sub´s, you can give more Voltage with no Problems.
> CL17 and CL18 it´s not good to give to much VDimm, you get the error 2C, you must drive less Voltage and must look how fast the Sub´s can be at this Voltage.
> A other thing is the IMC, in some Cases like CL17 it´s good to give more Vref(the multiplier for Voltage of the Bitline´s to the CPU).
> That can bring that you can boot CL17 in cases that it isn´t bootable or GSat stability.
> Here is a summary for BL/Slopé what that is, sry but i have done in german.
> View attachment 2476697
> 
> 
> In practice CL17 is good to test higher Vref 0.5-0.55 and CL18 lower 0,48-0,5, and the VDimm higher or lower 1.52-1.59V.
> At CL17/18 i can drive IO/SA a little bit lower.
> Also important Late/early Command set it antivalent, at CL16 i need early at CL17 i need late.I use only RoundTrip training
> Take a look at my 24/7 in that case it´s necessary to set Vref to 0.525 to get it rockstable in GSat with low Voltage on VDimm.
> At 4700CL17-18 i dont need to set Vref
> View attachment 2476696


dref bits 0-7 vdimm 1.5

they are all around value mainly 35/36.. they change on reboots

i can enter the value for rank 1 on both channel. only rank 0 cannot

btw seriously surprise you noticed it ,
yup i also use late command disable for cl16. it has issues with it.

the earlier bios it was disabled and then the current ones its enabled by default. does not effect cl17

think the post code is DD3Ah for late cmd

there is one more algo that affects cl17 only and not others its one of the last down the list. need to go back and check my notes.


----------



## Imprezzion

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think it´s more a question of voltage and other values.But you can test it.
> It´s a little bit difficult to explain, CL16 is very easy to training and you can drive fast Sub´s, you can give more Voltage with no Problems.
> CL17 and CL18 it´s not good to give to much VDimm, you get the error 2C, you must drive less Voltage and must look how fast the Sub´s can be at this Voltage.
> A other thing is the IMC, in some Cases like CL17 it´s good to give more Vref(the multiplier for Voltage of the Bitline´s to the CPU).
> That can bring that you can boot CL17 in cases that it isn´t bootable or GSat stability.
> Here is a summary for BL/Slopé what that is, sry but i have done in german.
> View attachment 2476697
> 
> 
> In practice CL17 is good to test higher Vref 0.5-0.55 and CL18 lower 0,48-0,5, and the VDimm higher or lower 1.52-1.59V.
> At CL17/18 i can drive IO/SA a little bit lower.
> Also important Late/early Command set it antivalent, at CL16 i need early at CL17 i need late.I use only RoundTrip training
> Take a look at my 24/7 in that case it´s necessary to set Vref to 0.525 to get it rockstable in GSat with low Voltage on VDimm.
> At 4700CL17-18 i dont need to set Vref
> View attachment 2476696



Great write up! I can read german just fine, I'm dutch after all .

I have noticed on C-17 before that voltage responds negative, like higher voltage for DRAM made it less stable. I just tried to boot 4533 16-17-17 which it didn't do on 1.52v but it did on 1.60v. So that is positive as raising Voltage on C-17 didn't do anything. Probably won't be stable tho but at least it booted windows which it has never done successfully before on C16 above 4200.

I will take this into my testing and see what happens.

I'm still at one huge disadvantage. Most of you guys use highly binned B-Die from a very tight factory bin while mine are random secondhand sticks of early production Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 which are nowhere near as good as like, 4400C19 or 3400C14 bins so maybe I'm expecting too much out of these DIMM's as well.. I mean, getting 4200 15-16-16, 4400 17-17-17 and 4533 17-19-19 to be stable with such a low tier bin isn't nothing lol and they are perfectly stable and daily runnable at either of those combinations but then I see you guys doing 16's on 4500+ and I'm like.. come on I have to be able to do that haha. My IMC can do it as long as I feed it enough IO SA, the board, not sure. The Ace is one of the best 4 DIMM boards there is but it's sti a 4 DIMM board with the wrong topology(?) So yeah it's no Apex that's for sure.


----------



## cstkl1

7empe said:


> In your opinion, what is a decent 2x16GB set I could target for M12E and high frequency with tight timings?
> 
> I am going to switch to 11900k if IPC improvement will be reasonable (+4 additional PCIE lines is also a +). Switching from 10 cores back to 8 needs to have a good justification. Of course PCIe gen 4 is also a benefit, especially that M12E supports it not only for PCIEx16 but most probably also for DIMM.2 slot for M.2 SSD...


only one reason for rkt if you have a good 10900k..

ram addict. 



https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/615211



page 69. leaked.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> Great write up! I can read german just fine, I'm dutch after all .
> 
> I have noticed on C-17 before that voltage responds negative, like higher voltage for DRAM made it less stable. I just tried to boot 4533 16-17-17 which it didn't do on 1.52v but it did on 1.60v. So that is positive as raising Voltage on C-17 didn't do anything. Probably won't be stable tho but at least it booted windows which it has never done successfully before on C16 above 4200.
> 
> I will take this into my testing and see what happens.
> 
> I'm still at one huge disadvantage. Most of you guys use highly binned B-Die from a very tight factory bin while mine are random secondhand sticks of early production Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 which are nowhere near as good as like, 4400C19 or 3400C14 bins so maybe I'm expecting too much out of these DIMM's as well.. I mean, getting 4200 15-16-16, 4400 17-17-17 and 4533 17-19-19 to be stable with such a low tier bin isn't nothing lol and they are perfectly stable and daily runnable at either of those combinations but then I see you guys doing 16's on 4500+ and I'm like.. come on I have to be able to do that haha. My IMC can do it as long as I feed it enough IO SA, the board, not sure. The Ace is one of the best 4 DIMM boards there is but it's sti a 4 DIMM board with the wrong topology(?) So yeah it's no Apex that's for sure.


apex is pure engineering bro 
+ maybe blood sacrifice ritual

lol.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think it´s more a question of voltage and other values.But you can test it.
> It´s a little bit difficult to explain, CL16 is very easy to training and you can drive fast Sub´s, you can give more Voltage with no Problems.
> CL17 and CL18 it´s not good to give to much VDimm, you get the error 2C, you must drive less Voltage and must look how fast the Sub´s can be at this Voltage.
> A other thing is the IMC, in some Cases like CL17 it´s good to give more Vref(the multiplier for Voltage of the Bitline´s to the CPU).
> That can bring that you can boot CL17 in cases that it isn´t bootable or GSat stability.
> Here is a summary for BL/Slopé what that is, sry but i have done in german.
> View attachment 2476697
> 
> 
> In practice CL17 is good to test higher Vref 0.5-0.55 and CL18 lower 0,48-0,5, and the VDimm higher or lower 1.52-1.59V.
> At CL17/18 i can drive IO/SA a little bit lower.
> Also important Late/early Command set it antivalent, at CL16 i need early at CL17 i need late.I use only RoundTrip training
> Take a look at my 24/7 in that case it´s necessary to set Vref to 0.525 to get it rockstable in GSat with low Voltage on VDimm.
> At 4700CL17-18 i dont need to set Vref
> View attachment 2476696


Very interesting stuff indeed, are these slopes/bitlanes in relation to the slopes in bios on the apex under skew control? I am looking more into the sloping values in bios to push overclocks further and was wondering what sort of values were expected for the sloping values and offsets for these values, i have already seen discussion of the data rising and falling slopes and their offsets here.


----------



## Salve1412

YaqY said:


> Very interesting stuff indeed, are these slopes/bitlanes in relation to the slopes in bios on the apex under skew control? I am looking more into the sloping values in bios to push overclocks further and was wondering what sort of values were expected for the sloping values and offsets for these values, i have already seen discussion of the data rising and falling slopes and their offsets here.


It is in fact extremely interesting stuff! I think that slopes are in the skew control section indeed, while REF Voltage and BLs are under the DRAM REF Voltage Control menu at the bottom of Extreme Tweaker section. I've always left everything on AUTO because of my lack of knowledge in the subject, but if there are values/voltages that change across reboots (if not manually set) then it could be interesting to see if fixing them could help my Extreme keep 4533 CL16 stable after a shutdown/reboot/power loss.


----------



## cstkl1

Salve1412 said:


> It is in fact extremely interesting stuff! I think that slopes are in the skew control section indeed, while REF Voltage and BLs are under the DRAM REF Voltage Control menu at the bottom of Extreme Tweaker section. I've always left everything on AUTO because of my lack of knowledge in the subject, but if there are values/voltages that change across reboots (if not manually set) then it could be interesting to see if fixing them could help my Extreme keep 4533 CL16 stable after a shutdown/reboot/power loss.


theres no way for us to set these unless asus makes public a tool to see good boot what it is running at.
32 values.. on 2 dimm dual rank
16 values on 2 dimm single


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@cstkl1
To set Slope and BL is very difficult, you need a hole of hours, the Problem is i dont know any Tool to read them out.
At first all thing must be set also ODT and so on.
Then at first the Slope´s, the BL are much more difficult and if you are to high in Frequency it can be that not all BL stable.
I have done this on Z390 Wifi XI.With the right Slope´s it was possible to get it GSat stable.
I have the BL to but the 2.IC on Dimm 2 changed sometime´s
In that case Z390 Slope´s are set to 12/1 12/1 14/1 4/1 13/1 13/1 14/1 no BL, that´s enough to finished GSat.








the BL at 0.5 are 6/6/5/5/5/6/6 5/6/6/5/5/6/6 5/5/5/4/4/4/5 5/5/4/4/4/4/5 the red one changed sometime´s.
With the right Slope´s many is posible like low VDimm.








That all need´s some 100 hours of work, i think by ApexXII do that out of the Box very well, so it isnt necessary,
perhaps in some special cases.

@Salve1412
To find the right value is really hard, if you want to do this, i would say Slope´s ok, but the BL let it better.
For the Slope´s only you need many hour´s and it works only fine if really any Value is the perfekt.
It´s like BL you cant set only one Channel that don´t work.

On Apex XII i dont have tested that, perhap´s it´s easier, but on Z390 Wifi XI it was really hard.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> @cstkl1
> To set Slope and BL is very difficult, you need a hole of hours, the Problem is i dont know any Tool to read them out.
> At first all thing must be set also ODT and so on.
> Then at first the Slope´s, the BL are much more difficult and if you are to high in Frequency it can be that not all BL stable.
> I have done this on Z390 Wifi XI.With the right Slope´s it was possible to get it GSat stable.
> I have the BL to but the 2.IC on Dimm 2 changed sometime´s
> In that case Z390 Slope´s are set to 12/1 12/1 14/1 4/1 13/1 13/1 14/1 no BL, that´s enough to finished GSat.
> View attachment 2476719
> 
> the BL at 0.5 are 6/6/5/5/5/6/6 5/6/6/5/5/6/6 5/5/5/4/4/4/5 5/5/4/4/4/4/5 the red one changed sometime´s.
> With the right Slope´s many is posible like low VDimm.
> View attachment 2476720
> 
> That all need´s some 100 hours of work, i think by ApexXII do that out of the Box very well, so it isnt necessary,
> perhaps in some special cases.
> 
> @Salve1412
> To find the right value is really hard, if you want to do this, i would say Slope´s ok, but the BL let it better.
> For the Slope´s only you need many hour´s and it works only fine if really any Value is the perfekt.
> It´s like BL you cant set only one Channel that don´t work.
> 
> On Apex XII i dont have tested that, perhap´s it´s easier, but on Z390 Wifi XI it was really hard.


Very strong results indeed, in regards to the slopes on the Z490 apex, would you say it is sufficient to set all the offset values to 1 and work on rising and falling slopes to find the best combinations?


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> @cstkl1
> To set Slope and BL is very difficult, you need a hole of hours, the Problem is i dont know any Tool to read them out.
> At first all thing must be set also ODT and so on.
> Then at first the Slope´s, the BL are much more difficult and if you are to high in Frequency it can be that not all BL stable.
> I have done this on Z390 Wifi XI.With the right Slope´s it was possible to get it GSat stable.
> I have the BL to but the 2.IC on Dimm 2 changed sometime´s
> In that case Z390 Slope´s are set to 12/1 12/1 14/1 4/1 13/1 13/1 14/1 no BL, that´s enough to finished GSat.
> View attachment 2476719
> 
> the BL at 0.5 are 6/6/5/5/5/6/6 5/6/6/5/5/6/6 5/5/5/4/4/4/5 5/5/4/4/4/4/5 the red one changed sometime´s.
> With the right Slope´s many is posible like low VDimm.
> View attachment 2476720
> 
> That all need´s some 100 hours of work, i think by ApexXII do that out of the Box very well, so it isnt necessary,
> perhaps in some special cases.
> 
> @Salve1412
> To find the right value is really hard, if you want to do this, i would say Slope´s ok, but the BL let it better.
> For the Slope´s only you need many hour´s and it works only fine if really any Value is the perfekt.
> It´s like BL you cant set only one Channel that don´t work.
> 
> On Apex XII i dont have tested that, perhap´s it´s easier, but on Z390 Wifi XI it was really hard.


i stopped doing skews after FAE's proved that with MRC changes etc..it wont stick.. they always seem to tune "sensing" whatever that means.

from what i know if you want to do skews.. you need to do DREF first.. those Bits 0-7.. only then "Good Training" will stick
at those values at vdimm 1.5v are around 35/36...
bdie odt are 80/48/40

a lot of microcode update changes mrc training... so pointless to do skews.

in z490 we had a lot of up and downs for bdie.. the was best a 0606, all 07xx was bad for it.. and then after a lot of pestering.. the current tuning of bdies afaik are still the same as 0606...


----------



## Placekicker19

Trying to get my copy speed higher. What timings have the greatest effect on copy speed? Regret not getting the 32gb 4266cl17 DR kit when they were available for a decent price.


----------



## YaqY

Placekicker19 said:


> Trying to get my copy speed higher. What timings have the greatest effect on copy speed? Regret not getting the 32gb 4266cl17 DR kit when they were available for a decent price.


Try dropping all the trdwr's at 10, this should help considerably. I'd also set twrwr_sg to 7 not 6, 6 in my testing loses performance in aida and geekbench 3 memory. Can also likely drop trdrd_dr to 5 for extra read.


----------



## Placekicker19

YaqY said:


> Try dropping all the trdwr's at 10, this should help considerably. I'd also set twrwr_sg to 7 not 6, 6 in my testing loses performance in aida and geekbench 3 memory. Can also likely drop trdrd_dr to 5 for extra read.


Thanks for the suggestions. 
Ill do some testing and see if anything improves.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> Very strong results indeed, in regards to the slopes on the Z490 apex, would you say it is sufficient to set all the offset values to 1 and work on rising and falling slopes to find the best combinations?


The Offset you can let Auto, you must test 1 value like data rising, it will be more than one possible, but only one is the best.
Test it with GSat for some minutes.Write down the possible.
Then the next CTL,CLK etc.
Before testing all Voltages and other value´s etc. must be fixed, you will only find the right value´s in max. possible case,
in my case i must test it at 4700.
Do CLK as last.

For the most people its to much work, to do such things and it´s not easy.

@cstkl1
The needed ODT are not fixed, if you drive other setting´s Mhz etc. it can be that you need other ODT.So it must be the right value for the setting.
I dont drive 80/48/40, this ODT dont work in my setting, i have other value´s in my case.

Slope is for the most not necessary and no easy stuff like voltage,odt etc.But it bring stability in boot and GSat.
If i have no other choice to get it stable, this a the way.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> The Offset you can let Auto, you must test 1 value like data rising, it will be more than one possible, but only one is the best.
> Test it with GSat for some minutes.Write down the possible.
> Then the next CTL,CLK etc.
> Before testing all Voltages and other value´s etc. must be fixed, you will only find the right value´s in max. possible case,
> in my case i must test it at 4700.
> Do CLK as last.
> 
> For the most people its to much work, to do such things and it´s not easy.
> 
> @cstkl1
> The needed ODT are not fixed, if you drive other setting´s Mhz etc. it can be that you need other ODT.So it must be the right value for the setting.
> I dont drive 80/48/40, this ODT dont work in my setting, i have other value´s in my case.
> 
> Slope is for the most not necessary and no easy stuff like voltage,odt etc.But it bring stability in boot and GSat.
> If i have no other choice to get it stable, this a the way.


 skews a must for those who do 4dimm. 
but on this platform i gave up.

without an exact guide with value shown for dref bits 0-7.. i dont see how.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I think, BL is not necessary, in the most cases help it sometime to set the Vref multplier 0.48-0.55.
With the right ODT RTL/IOL voltages, Memory training, Sub Timings and Vref, you can get enough stable, with more than that perhaps 100Mhz more 24/7 stable.

If you want to max out, under skrews the Slopes is the better and easier way, for "extrem" settings to get it stable, this is difficult enough.
You will break your Windows sometime, Bios with grafic error, error CC or such things are normal by testing.But no error code 00 like by setting wrong BL happens.
It coast much time, many restarts, 100time will not be enough only for the Slopes.

I can not say that it's worth it, its coast much time for a little bit Performance.
I dont know why Asus not show us the trained value of slopes etc, so its very difficult.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think, BL is not necessary, in the most cases help it sometime to set the Vref multplier 0.48-0.55.
> With the right ODT RTL/IOL voltages, Memory training, Sub Timings and Vref, you can get enough stable, with more than that perhaps 100Mhz more 24/7 stable.
> 
> If you want to max out, under skrews the Slopes is the better and easier way, for "extrem" settings to get it stable, this is difficult enough.
> You will break your Windows sometime, Bios with grafic error, error CC or such things are normal by testing.But no error code 00 like by setting wrong BL happens.
> It coast much time, many restarts, 100time will not be enough only for the Slopes.
> 
> I can not say that it's worth it, its coast much time for a little bit Performance.
> I dont know why Asus not show us the trained value of slopes etc, so its very difficult.


did u see evga dark vref. its much higher.

rising i use to run this for 4x8gb
5/1, 2/1, 4/0, 4/1


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think, BL is not necessary, in the most cases help it sometime to set the Vref multplier 0.48-0.55.
> With the right ODT RTL/IOL voltages, Memory training, Sub Timings and Vref, you can get enough stable, with more than that perhaps 100Mhz more 24/7 stable.
> 
> If you want to max out, under skrews the Slopes is the better and easier way, for "extrem" settings to get it stable, this is difficult enough.
> You will break your Windows sometime, Bios with grafic error, error CC or such things are normal by testing.But no error code 00 like by setting wrong BL happens.
> It coast much time, many restarts, 100time will not be enough only for the Slopes.
> 
> I can not say that it's worth it, its coast much time for a little bit Performance.
> I dont know why Asus not show us the trained value of slopes etc, so its very difficult.


Yeah I really wish the did show us trained values for both of those and breaking bios and windows is all part of ram overclocking when you push to the limit, but bred definitely can make substantial gains it what’s able to be daily driven! Ever look at some of the pros and ask yourself how they are running such little vdimm for frequency/timings, that’s why. Just wish we had posted values to reference.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

On Z390 with [email protected] my Problem was sometimes it was stable and GSat works for longer, next boot unstable, so i have think that he trained fail.
In web i dont have find anything to BL/ Slope´s etc., there are also termination voltage for "IO/SA" that is also important and so on.
I think i have the most possibility´s testet that the Bios have^^.
More information about ODT/Slope´s Bitlines etc. i have only find in patent ddr4,odt etc and it give´s some professional to explain how to build your one controls with Dram,
there are slope/BL etc. explained, how you must build Circuit boards for a good transmission.

An explaination for this for Mainboard´s its doesnt give.
If one has understood what the value does and for that it is, it´s easier.


----------



## munternet

PhoenixMDA said:


> On Z390 with [email protected] my Problem was sometimes it was stable and GSat works for longer, next boot unstable, so i have think that he trained fail.
> In web i dont have find anything to BL/ Slope´s etc., there are also termination voltage for "IO/SA" that is also important and so on.
> I think i have the most possibility´s testet that the Bios have^^.
> More information about ODT/Slope´s Bitlines etc. i have only find in patent ddr4,odt etc and it give´s some professional to explain how to build your one controls with Dram,
> there are slope/BL etc. explained, how you must build Circuit boards for a good transmission.
> 
> An explaination for this for Mainboard´s its doesnt give.
> If one has understood what the value does and for that it is, it´s easier.


Good to see you are using GSAT for stability testing  
@Jpmboy put me onto this long ago. There is a link in my sig on setting it up in windows or running from USB if anyone wants it


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Without Gsat it is not possible to be sure that its stable and it isnt possible to find the right value's.
I use also dangwang and prime for stability test, thats enough.


----------



## itssladenlol

New daily:

1,34 IO
1,34 SA
1,54 Vdimm (could go lower)

I think thats the Limit of 4400 c16, only could improve by going 28/23
or lower trtp/twr/tcwl.
TWRWR_sg on 6 gives negative performance. 

I can run 4400 15/16 also but the voltage for that is just bogus....(1,6)


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> New daily:
> 
> 1,34 IO
> 1,34 SA
> 1,54 Vdimm (could go lower)
> 
> I think thats the Limit of 4400 c16, only could improve by going 28/23
> or lower trtp/twr/tcwl.
> TWRWR_sg on 6 gives negative performance.
> 
> I can run 4400 15/16 also but the voltage for that is just bogus....(1,6)
> View attachment 2476794


Nice 
Diggin' those voltages and the copy being higher than the read/write 
Nothing wrong with 1.6vdimm if it's cool is there?


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> Nice
> Diggin' those voltages and the copy being higher than the read/write
> Nothing wrong with 1.6vdimm if it's cool is there?


Yeah, but cranking from 1,54 to 1,6+ for just 1 ns isnt worth it for me 😅


----------



## 7empe

Guys, I need your advice regarding RTL/IO-Ls. Using M12E and bios version 2004 and 4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 running at 4133 16-16-16-36. Tightest RTL/IO-Ls draw by the board are: 60/60/61/62 and 7/7/7/7, which later on I put them manually. Solid stable with TM5 (anta777) and Karhu Memtest 20000% of coverage. Next day, PC boots fine (MRC on Auto), but TM5 has errors in 1 minute. To solve this instability I need to draw RTL/IO-Ls multiple times again to find NEW tightest set. This time it is 60/*61*/61/62 and the same IO-Ls 7/7/7/7. RAM is solid stable again. Why is that? Ambient temperature has an influence? Maybe, components are not warmed up as they were when I was testing stability a day before?


----------



## itssladenlol

7empe said:


> Guys, I need your advice regarding RTL/IO-Ls. Using M12E and bios version 2004 and 4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 running at 4133 16-16-16-36. Tightest RTL/IO-Ls draw by the board are: 60/60/61/62 and 7/7/7/7, which later on I put them manually. Solid stable with TM5 (anta777) and Karhu Memtest 20000% of coverage. Next day, PC boots fine (MRC on Auto), but TM5 has errors in 1 minute. To solve this instability I need to draw RTL/IO-Ls multiple times again to find NEW tightest set. This time it is 60/*61*/61/62 and the same IO-Ls 7/7/7/7. RAM is solid stable again. Why is that? Ambient temperature has an influence? Maybe, components are not warmed up as they were when I was testing stability a day before?


Go back to bios 1003, 2004 has Problems with RTL/iol Training. 
Also mrcfullcheck=enabled and memory fast boot disabled.


----------



## 7empe

itssladenlol said:


> Go back to bios 1003, 2004 has Problems with RTL/iol Training.
> Also mrcfullcheck=enabled and memory fast boot disabled.


Thanks! I will check this.


----------



## Imprezzion

So, I am testing 4600Mhz right now and am having some weird results.. I loosened up most secondaries and tertiaries and RTL/IO to just focus on getting the frequency and primaries (same 17-19-19 I had on 4533) to work.

In for example TM5 Extreme Anta777 it runs for 15-20 minutes with no errors, then just hard locks up the PC. No events in event viewer except a unexpected shutdown after I hold power to shut it off. 

Same goes for Prime95 large fft memory test or even HCI. It runs for a good while with seemingly no errors but then just hard locks..

What setting / voltage could this be? I'm running 4600Mhz DRAM, 4.7Ghz cache, 5Ghz all core, 1.310v, IO @ 1.35v, SA @ 1.40v, to avoid getting cache errors. 24/7 CPU runs 5.2/4.9 @ 1.36v. 

Timings at 17-19-19-38-370-2T 24 tWR 16 tCWL 6 tRRD_s 10 tRRD_l, 24 tFAW, 72/72/13/14 Auto RTL/IO, DLL Bandwidth Auto, PPD disabled.

More SA definitely didn't help, rather made it worse. Error at 13 minutes and then a hard lock. I'll try some more IO and DRAM Voltage but I'm all out of ideas.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> So, I am testing 4600Mhz right now and am having some weird results.. I loosened up most secondaries and tertiaries and RTL/IO to just focus on getting the frequency and primaries (same 17-19-19 I had on 4533) to work.
> 
> In for example TM5 Extreme Anta777 it runs for 15-20 minutes with no errors, then just hard locks up the PC. No events in event viewer except a unexpected shutdown after I hold power to shut it off.
> 
> Same goes for Prime95 large fft memory test or even HCI. It runs for a good while with seemingly no errors but then just hard locks..
> 
> What setting / voltage could this be? I'm running 4600Mhz DRAM, 4.7Ghz cache, 5Ghz all core, 1.310v, IO @ 1.35v, SA @ 1.40v, to avoid getting cache errors. 24/7 CPU runs 5.2/4.9 @ 1.36v.
> 
> Timings at 17-19-19-38-370-2T 24 tWR 16 tCWL 6 tRRD_s 10 tRRD_l, 24 tFAW, 72/72/13/14 Auto RTL/IO, DLL Bandwidth Auto, PPD disabled.
> 
> More SA definitely didn't help, rather made it worse. Error at 13 minutes and then a hard lock. I'll try some more IO and DRAM Voltage but I'm all out of ideas.


Sometimes higher oc needs higher vcore. 
If you have tested your cpu oc with 4200 or 4400 ram speed, 4600 sometimes needs abit of Additional vcore. 
You can test bumping it up a little bit for 4600.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> Sometimes higher oc needs higher vcore.
> If you have tested your cpu oc with 4200 or 4400 ram speed, 4600 sometimes needs abit of Additional vcore.
> You can test bumping it up a little bit for 4600.


Yeah it's Prime95 blend overnight (18 hour run) and HCI 8 hours and TM5 8 hours tested with both 4200C15 and 4400C17 but not with 4533. I usually just scale down the CPU to 5.0/4.7 just to eliminate this exact problem but maybe it still isn't low enough of a clock or high enough of a voltage.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah it's Prime95 blend overnight (18 hour run) and HCI 8 hours and TM5 8 hours tested with both 4200C15 and 4400C17 but not with 4533. I usually just scale down the CPU to 5.0/4.7 just to eliminate this exact problem but maybe it still isn't low enough of a clock or high enough of a voltage.


Its Not About the cpu/cache Frequency, scaling this down wont help the problem. 
With little bit higher vcore you get better Training on slopes and bitlines i assume.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> Its Not About the cpu/cache Frequency, scaling this down wont help the problem.
> With little bit higher vcore you get better Training on slopes and bitlines i assume.


Ah then it's a no-go. I need to delid first. I'm completely out of thermal headroom as it is. Oh well, next project.. Hehe.

EDIT: Got 4300C16 to work lol. Have to do a LOT of tweaking for the subs but at least it can handle these primaries..
I also probably don't need this much SA/IO but yeah, this is copied from my 4533 profile as a base and it works so. I'll keep it like this for now.

DIMM's are a bit hot at almost 47c as my fans are set very low RPM wise and my dedicated RAM 140mm only runs 600-800RPM right now. Might have to speed that up a bit to prevent thermal instability.










EDIT2: Zero room in the tRDWR's and also no way it'll do tRRD on 4/6 or 4/4 so totally inefficient compared to 4400C17 which will drop both way lower. 

Next up, testing 4200 with whatever I can do timig wise I'm bored lol.


----------



## Salve1412

@PhoenixMDA I have to thank you for pointing me towards VREF... manually adjusting it seems to really have a significant impact in stability! After setting a specific multiplier in conjunction with fixed ODT values I could finally pass 2 hours GSAT at 4533 16-17-17-37 with tightened subtimings twice, most importantly after a complete AC shutdown, something that never happened before! Today I also passed 1000% HCI Memtest Pro 7.0. I'll do some other GSAT runs and then I'll move to Prime 112k.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Salve1412 said:


> @PhoenixMDA I have to thank you for pointing me towards VREF... manually adjusting it seems to really have a significant impact in stability! After setting a specific multiplier in conjunction with fixed ODT values I could finally pass 2 hours GSAT at 4533 16-17-17-37 with tightened subtimings twice, most importantly after a complete AC shutdown, something that never happened before! Today I also passed 1000% HCI Memtest Pro 7.0. I'll do some other GSAT runs and then I'll move to Prime 112k.


Yes Vref is really good in some cases to set, at 4600CL17-17 i need 0.525 and 4700CL17-18 i dont need.
Here are my setting at 4700CL17-18, it´s with Slope´s, i think the slope are not really perfekt but it´s works, much more better than without.
It need´s much time to find the perfekt one´s.Perhap´s some help this.





P.s.
Special thanks to @Esenel who has show me GSat for some years, that make's that posible, to find the right value's.


----------



## Gregix

Hi again
Anyone remember which value is responsible in low latency/read speeds in bios/uefi in z390 aorus mb? 
Like I literally copied my settings from z370 taichi, where I had near 60gb/s and now have like 40ish Gb and 10-16ns lower scores. I know one was Intel V-d or whatever for virtualization, to have disabled, but...
And yea, this crap is t-topology, so I have now 4 sticks running and it is doing 4000Mhz no fuzz(starting value) while DS 2 sticks couldn't do more than 3200 without errors(while doing just fine 3800c14 on z370...)


----------



## YaqY

Gregix said:


> Hi again
> Anyone remember which value is responsible in low latency/read speeds in bios/uefi in z390 aorus mb?
> Like I literally copied my settings from z370 taichi, where I had near 60gb/s and now have like 40ish Gb and 10-16ns lower scores. I know one was Intel V-d or whatever for virtualization, to have disabled, but...
> And yea, this crap is t-topology, so I have now 4 sticks running and it is doing 4000Mhz no fuzz(starting value) while DS 2 sticks couldn't do more than 3200 without errors(while doing just fine 3800c14 on z370...)


Check if trdrd_sg and twrwr_sg are not at 4, if they aren't set them at 4.


----------



## Esenel

PhoenixMDA said:


> Special thanks to @Esenel who has show me GSat for some years, that make's that posible, to find the right value's.


There you have to thank @Jpmboy from which I learned how to use GSAT ;-)


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Gregix said:


> Hi again
> Anyone remember which value is responsible in low latency/read speeds in bios/uefi in z390 aorus mb?
> Like I literally copied my settings from z370 taichi, where I had near 60gb/s and now have like 40ish Gb and 10-16ns lower scores. I know one was Intel V-d or whatever for virtualization, to have disabled, but...
> And yea, this crap is t-topology, so I have now 4 sticks running and it is doing 4000Mhz no fuzz(starting value) while DS 2 sticks couldn't do more than 3200 without errors(while doing just fine 3800c14 on z370...)


Are you on z390 master and which bios??? F9 was the best bios from overclocking and stability standpoint, all the newer ones, even modded ect are ass! Send timing config and aida64 memory test. I will look in bios but there’s bunch of stuff u disable but couple things affect memory


----------



## Gregix

Nah, went cheapo, I needed damn BAR functionality for my 6800xt. So it is just PRO. With latest beta. So, BAR works, but low performance hampers FPS anyway. Not too much, but still. And negates swap at all...on z370 with g.skill/patriots/even those TM dark(in dual, 2x8) I just had better scores. And 40ns and below latency.
I know, some settings can go down, but anyway, it is still, non tweaked(or tweaked as u see) way below.


----------



## neiz0n

Hello everyone! How does this kit(F4-4000C17D-32GVKB) run? 4400 c16-16, 4000 c15?


----------



## munternet

neiz0n said:


> Hello everyone! How does this kit(F4-4000C17D-32GVKB) run? 4400 c16-16, 4000 c15?


That is a good kit and should overclock well
Need some info on the rest of your kit
Can you do a rig build in your sig


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Gregix said:


> Nah, went cheapo, I needed damn BAR functionality for my 6800xt. So it is just PRO. With latest beta. So, BAR works, but low performance hampers FPS anyway. Not too much, but still. And negates swap at all...on z370 with g.skill/patriots/even those TM dark(in dual, 2x8) I just had better scores. And 40ns and below latency.
> I know, some settings can go down, but anyway, it is still, non tweaked(or tweaked as u see) way below.


Your twtr S/L need some work and TRDWR as well, VT-D needs to be disabled and make sure interleaving is enabled
Also if you run 3900mhz you will be able to control RTL/IOL which will help performance drastically


----------



## Gregix

I know I know, doin it right now. Just managed to flash better(same but moded) bios. Testing now 4133c16. So far so good, need to learn how to touch RTL/IOls....


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Gregix said:


> I know I know, doin it right now. Just managed to flash better(same but moded) bios. Testing now 4133c16. So far so good, need to learn how to touch RTL/IOls....


On z390 above 3900 MHz you can’t tune RTL/IOL. So unless you will get like 4200+ out of your ram 3900 maybe give you better performance. I tested some insane 3900-13-14-14-34-2t-280 on aorus z390 master and it outperformed 4200 because of RTL/IOL being tuned. Bandwidth was slightly lower but latency was 8ns better from what I remember.


----------



## Gregix

I may ended with something like this. At the moment I have that 4133c16 stable, but latency is 46ns...not to mention lower read/write/copy scores, lower than I had on DR 3800c14 g.skills (2x16Gb). 
Or just will return this MB to Amazon, and go back to z370taichi, damn this BAR option. Will see.


----------



## munternet

Where abouts is the Vref setting in the asus bios?


----------



## itssladenlol

munternet said:


> Where abouts is the Vref setting in the asus bios?


All the way down below sa io vcore etc. 
Its the last entry on that Page.


----------



## neiz0n

munternet said:


> That is a good kit and should overclock well
> Need some info on the rest of your kit
> Can you do a rig build in your sig


👌


----------



## Arctucas

Advice on improvements, specifically, I would like to increase Copy to get closer to matching Read and Write, if possible.

This is the GSKILL F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW kit.


----------



## Gregix

Ok I gave up. No RTL/IOL settings, bad trainings, only one thing worked as intended, ie BAR function. Even on my 8086k it gave in minimal fps +20-100% boost.
That 100% was ofc in built in RDR2 benchmark. No BAR 43/169/124 min/ave/max while BAR was 86/169/130 (rounded up).
So yeah, z390gb mid end is crap in +3200Mhz memory department. Even on XMP my taichi has better results same config 4*8Gb than XMP on aorus pro. Better read/write speeds, latency...
Damn, taichi went good atm at 4000c16 barely tuned with 40ns, while heavily tuned z390 pro had 46-47ns at 4133c15!

IS there any posibility to manipulate IOLs/RTLs in MSI z390 boards? Z390 that is?


----------



## itssladenlol

Arctucas said:


> Advice on improvements, specifically, I would like to increase Copy to get closer to matching Read and Write, if possible.
> 
> This is the GSKILL F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW kit.
> 
> View attachment 2477712


Trefi=65535
Twrrd_dr=6
TWRWR_DR=6
TCKE=6


----------



## munternet

Just a little heads up on the Apex XII 2004 Beta BIOS
If you flash it you will need to use Biosflashback via the rear IO panel to flash back to an older BIOS renamed M12A.CMO
Trying to flash it back from within the BIOS will result in it not recognizing any older BIOSs "Selected file is not a proper BIOS"
I have reverted to the 1003 now for testing as the 1002 I was using has been removed from the official list on the motherboard website


----------



## SunnyStefan

munternet said:


> Just a little heads up on the Apex XII 2004 Beta BIOS
> If you flash it you will need to use Biosflashback via the rear IO panel to flash back to an older BIOS renamed M12A.CMO
> Trying to flash it back from within the BIOS will result in it not recognizing any older BIOSs "Selected file is not a proper BIOS"
> I have reverted to the 1003 now for testing as the 1002 I was using has been removed from the official list on the motherboard website


Was your experience with overclocking on the Apex XII 2004 BIOS poor, or are you just trying another BIOS for experimentation purposes?


----------



## munternet

SunnyStefan said:


> Was your experience with overclocking on the Apex XII 2004 BIOS poor, or are you just trying another BIOS for experimentation purposes?


My experience was OK, 4600c16 and running windows @ 4700c16 not stable, but I noticed @PhoenixMDA is getting excellent results with the 1003 so I decided to go with the tried and tested considering the hours already put in


----------



## itssladenlol

Still using 0088, no bar Support for me, using 1000w bios.
1000w bios wont get Updated anyway with bar Support


----------



## Arctucas

itssladenlol said:


> Trefi=65535
> Twrrd_dr=6
> TWRWR_DR=6
> TCKE=6


Thanks.

Will not train:
tWRRD dr = 6
tWRWR dr = 6

Will train:
tWRRD dr = 7
tWRWR dr = 7

tCKE = 6

Had to raise tRDRD dr = 6 because of errors TM5 anta extreme with = 5.

tREFI is probably the most perplexing. Anything significantly above 15600 will not train. I set it to 15600 following the formula; 7.8*4000/2 for DDR4-4000.


----------



## YaqY

Arctucas said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Will not train:
> tWRRD dr = 6
> tWRWR dr = 6
> 
> Will train:
> tWRRD dr = 7
> tWRWR dr = 7
> 
> tCKE = 6
> 
> Had to raise tRDRD dr = 6 because of errors TM5 anta extreme with = 5.
> 
> tREFI is probably the most perplexing. Anything significantly above 15600 will not train. I set it to 15600 following the formula; 7.8*4000/2 for DDR4-4000.
> View attachment 2477809


You need to lock in your rtls/iols. 60/60/61/61/6/6/6/6 should work.


----------



## munternet

@PhoenixMDA 
Preliminary testing looks promising
I set VREF 0.52 which tested the best initially and I will retest it later again but first impressions are good
It has enabled me to lower subs more than ever before (especially the 2 circled sg values) with good read, write and copy without having to push the frequency too much 
I can see this has been a game changer already and I look forward to wasting much more time going over my old overclocks   
Not tuned or tested yet but I could never even boot this before and I wanted to share
Any suggestions appreciated


----------



## YaqY

munternet said:


> @PhoenixMDA
> Preliminary testing looks promising
> I set VREF 0.52 which tested the best initially and I will retest it later again but first impressions are good
> It has enabled me to lower subs more than ever before (especially the 2 circled sg values) with good read, write and copy without having to push the frequency too much
> I can see this has been a game changer already and I look forward to wasting much more time going over my old overclocks
> Not tuned or tested yet but I could never even boot this before and I wanted to share
> Any suggestions appreciated
> View attachment 2477824


TRDRD_DR at 5 can likely work. I would leave TWRWR_SG at 7, i have tested 6 which is stable but performs worse in Aida and Geekbench 3. Do RTLS/IOLS not work at 62/62/63/63/8/8/8/8 for you btw? What bios were you on previously? I have used 0088 for a while, i tried 2004 but that bios seemed horrible.


----------



## itssladenlol

YaqY said:


> TRDRD_DR at 5 can likely work. I would leave TWRWR_SG at 7, i have tested 6 which is stable but performs worse in Aida and Geekbench 3. Do RTLS/IOLS not work at 62/62/63/63/8/8/8/8 for you btw? What bios were you on previously? I have used 0088 for a while, i tried 2004 but that bios seemed horrible.


Yeah tWRWR_sg needs to be on 7.
6 gives negative performance and less stability.


----------



## munternet

YaqY said:


> TRDRD_DR at 5 can likely work. I would leave TWRWR_SG at 7, i have tested 6 which is stable but performs worse in Aida and Geekbench 3. Do RTLS/IOLS not work at 62/62/63/63/8/8/8/8 for you btw? What bios were you on previously? I have used 0088 for a while, i tried 2004 but that bios seemed horrible.


Thanks for the reply 
Yeah, I was just a bit excited before at making some progress with the VREF. I guess I'm just a ram tuning tragic 
I have since had a chance to go through a few settings to see what's stable and what produces the best Aida results
This is still a work in progress but I have 11 tabs open in Chrome while typing this and running GSAT and it looks pretty solid


----------



## mouacyk

So I changed from EVGA Z370 Micro to Gigabyte Z390M Gaming in anticipation for Resizable BAR support, but RAM oc seems to have suffered. Went from 3900C15 to 3600C15:








I know some of the 3rd timings can be optmized, but does anyone have experience with Gigabyte Z390 and how 2x16 fares. Think I can get anymore out of these. 3700C15 boots and sometimes passes test, other times not.


----------



## munternet

mouacyk said:


> So I changed from EVGA Z370 Micro to Gigabyte Z390M Gaming in anticipation for Resizable BAR support, but RAM oc seems to have suffered. Went from 3900C15 to 3600C15:
> View attachment 2477835
> 
> 
> I know some of the 3rd timings can be optmized, but does anyone have experience with Gigabyte Z390 and how 2x16 fares. Think I can get anymore out of these. 3700C15 boots and sometimes passes test, other times not.


I know setting the ODT skews really helped with stability for me. Is there an option on the board to set them?
Get the ram to the point of instability and use GSAT to find the best setting for each of the three
There is a link in my sig if you want to take a look
Considering you had a better overclock previously there's a good chance it's something like that
You may need to do the channels separately if the boards traces are not optimized
I'm not familiar with the Gigabyte BIOS but maybe someone else can chime in


----------



## 7empe

Hey, I've found very strange "behaviour" of M12E and two last bioses (1003 and 2004) regarding RAM stability. After weeks of tweaking I got stable 4x8GB 4133 MHz 16-16-34. It is solid stable during the TM5 and Karhu with 20000% of coverage. Next day I boot up with the same profile and got errors immediately. Memory retraining does not help. What needs to be done is CMOS clear, load the same profile in BIOS and everything is stable again. So... what's happening? I suppose this has something in common with Skews that are left on Auto, but not sure (RTLs/IO-Ls are fixed). Windows fast start-up may be the cause? Some issues with BIOS? Anyone has similar observations?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

7empe said:


> Hey, I've found very strange "behaviour" of M12E and two last bioses (1003 and 2004) regarding RAM stability. After weeks of tweaking I got stable 4x8GB 4133 MHz 16-16-34. It is solid stable during the TM5 and Karhu with 20000% of coverage. Next day I boot up with the same profile and got errors immediately. Memory retraining does not help. What needs to be done is CMOS clear, load the same profile in BIOS and everything is stable again. So... what's happening? I suppose this has something in common with Skews that are left on Auto, but not sure (RTLs/IO-Ls are fixed). Windows fast start-up may be the cause? Some issues with BIOS? Anyone has similar observations?
> 
> View attachment 2477859


Yeah ODT values need to be locked in or retraining on cold boot can cause them to train different.


----------



## 7empe

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Yeah ODT values need to be locked in or retraining on cold boot can cause them to train different.


Is there any way to read currently set values? BIOS tells me only "Auto" without indicating the current value.


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> Is there any way to read currently set values? BIOS tells me only "Auto" without indicating the current value.


Not that i am aware of.


----------



## Arctucas

YaqY said:


> You need to lock in your rtls/iols. 60/60/61/61/6/6/6/6 should work.


Two DIMM motherboard.

Running AUTO now, but not having any luck changing them.

Was 60/61 and 6/6. Needs further adjustment or returning to previous settings.


----------



## YaqY

Arctucas said:


> Two DIMM motherboard.
> 
> Running AUTO now, but not having any luck changing them.
> 
> Was 60/61 and 6/6. Needs further adjustment or returning to previous settings.


Well yes but you are on 2x16 dual rank bdie so you have more rtls/iols to deal with.


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> Hey, I've found very strange "behaviour" of M12E and two last bioses (1003 and 2004) regarding RAM stability. After weeks of tweaking I got stable 4x8GB 4133 MHz 16-16-34. It is solid stable during the TM5 and Karhu with 20000% of coverage. Next day I boot up with the same profile and got errors immediately. Memory retraining does not help. What needs to be done is CMOS clear, load the same profile in BIOS and everything is stable again. So... what's happening? I suppose this has something in common with Skews that are left on Auto, but not sure (RTLs/IO-Ls are fixed). Windows fast start-up may be the cause? Some issues with BIOS? Anyone has similar observations?
> 
> View attachment 2477859


I have observed the same behaviour as well, even with locked ODT's. Unfortunately this seems to become more prevalent the higher frequency you go, 4500 for me runs good sometimes, sometimes it wont train well, 4400 is stable all the time.


----------



## 7empe

YaqY said:


> I have observed the same behaviour as well, even with locked ODT's. Unfortunately this seems to become more prevalent the higher frequency you go, 4500 for me runs good sometimes, sometimes it wont train well, 4400 is stable all the time.


Yeah, with 4 sticks, 4100 is always stable, 4133 needs CMOS clear and profile reload, especially when PC is cold (e.g. after night). Some variables are not trained well, but have no clue which one. My guess was that these are RTTs ODT/PARK/NOM, because I have RTL/IO-L manually set and they do not change after training. But I have no clue how to set them to find out if this is the case.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

7empe said:


> Yeah, with 4 sticks, 4100 is always stable, 4133 needs CMOS clear and profile reload, especially when PC is cold (e.g. after night). Some variables are not trained well, but have no clue which one. My guess was that these are RTTs ODT/PARK/NOM, because I have RTL/IO-L manually set and they do not change after training. But I have no clue how to set them to find out if this is the case.


It can be a lot more than just RTL/IOL, and ODT, can be too low or too high SA, unstable cache, not the correct DDRVTT, Training at wrong vDimm, I could go on and on. There could be one timing in specific giving you memory controller a hard time, I have 2 things right now I was working thru with 4700-16-17-17-36-2t-320 which I have tuned everything but slopes manually. One is slopes and other is 2 timing giving training grief which with them backed off makes 4700 almost identical aida64 performance as 4600c16. Which is 100% stable and repeatable training even with PSU power downs. Things most people don’t test is full psu power downs, my buddy was doing some mining recent and changed all his overclock cpu, memory, GPU and well when he changed profiles back didn’t post then he psu power downed and it posted and he destroyed MW Warzone yesterday.unstable memory! Now he’s listening to me on outing in the time and stress testing correctly.


----------



## mouacyk

munternet said:


> I know setting the ODT skews really helped with stability for me. Is there an option on the board to set them?
> Get the ram to the point of instability and use GSAT to find the best setting for each of the three
> There is a link in my sig if you want to take a look
> Considering you had a better overclock previously there's a good chance it's something like that
> You may need to do the channels separately if the boards traces are not optimized
> I'm not familiar with the Gigabyte BIOS but maybe someone else can chime in


Thanks. It gives me hope, and there's quite a bit of info in the thread.

@MericaShotUrAss Cold posting is a new thing I am doing now too, after discovering an unstable RAM oc.


----------



## Arctucas

YaqY said:


> Well yes but you are on 2x16 dual rank bdie so you have more rtls/iols to deal with.


Regardless of UEFI settings for CH A D1 and CH B D1, nothing changes for either RTL or IOL.

tWRWR dr = 8
tWRWR sg = 6










Read and copy very close, even with write a little down, and latency slightly higher.


----------



## YaqY

Arctucas said:


> Regardless of UEFI settings for CH A D1 and CH B D1, nothing changes for either RTL or IOL.
> 
> tWRWR dr = 8
> tWRWR sg = 6
> 
> View attachment 2477941
> 
> 
> Read and copy very close, even with write a little down, and latency slightly higher.


This is not what i meant, the D1 slots are unpopulated hence the 69 values, if you go into bios you will see CHA D0 Rank0/1 rtl/iol values and the same for CHB.


----------



## Dannyele

Hello guys,

Do you think that I can squeeze more of this?

*F4-4266C19D-16GTZR (4x8)*










It's not stable less tan 17-17-17-37 (i've tested lower primaries with 1.5v / 1.35 sa/io but not stable).

Currently running them 1.4v ddr, 1.25 sa/io.

Because of a bug with the z390 aorus master, anything above 3900 cannot train the RTLs/IO, for example, at 4133 my RTLS goes 74-74-76-76 and 14-14-14-14 IOLs.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Dannyele said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Do you think that I can squeeze more of this?
> 
> *F4-4266C19D-16GTZR (4x8)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not stable less tan 17-17-17-37 (i've tested lower primaries with 1.5v / 1.35 sa/io but not stable).
> 
> Currently running them 1.4v ddr, 1.25 sa/io.
> 
> Because of a bug with the z390 aorus master, anything above 3900 cannot train the RTLs/IO, for example, at 4133 my RTLS goes 74-74-76-76 and 14-14-14-14 IOLs.


Yes you should be able to do a lot better than that. If that is a bdie kit, and if you can run 4400-17-18-18-38-2t-360-1.5v will smash that 3900 with tuned RTL/IOL 
Which bios are you running? Because F9 is the best bios from gigabyte out of all the other BS roaming around I tested all the betas and modded bios ect you could prob get another 8k bandwidth with lower latency. And then subs and everything else can go lower most likely.


----------



## munternet

@PhoenixMDA Thanks for posting the youtube video a couple of pages back and sharing all your work 
I copied your slopes for now to give me a starting point and with VREF 0.52 managed to drop vccsa from 1.43v to 1.38v and vccio from 1.38v to 1.36v while dropping RTLs from 63 to 62
Booting is much more consistent and stable so I will be moving to try lowering voltages on 4600 and 4700 next


----------



## Placekicker19

Testing this new evga bios that finally allows ppd adjustment. The results are positive!!


----------



## Arctucas

YaqY said:


> This is not what i meant, the D1 slots are unpopulated hence the 69 values, if you go into bios you will see CHA D0 Rank0/1 rtl/iol values and the same for CHB.


Yes. 











And ... ?


----------



## YaqY

Arctucas said:


> Yes.
> 
> View attachment 2478070
> 
> 
> 
> And ... ?


I am saying you can manually set these rtls/iols so they dont change on reboot . I noticed another pic from you had them trained off.


----------



## YaqY

munternet said:


> @PhoenixMDA Thanks for posting the youtube video a couple of pages back and sharing all your work
> I copied your slopes for now to give me a starting point and with VREF 0.52 managed to drop vccsa from 1.43v to 1.38v and vccio from 1.38v to 1.36v while dropping RTLs from 63 to 62
> Booting is much more consistent and stable so I will be moving to try lowering voltages on 4600 and 4700 next
> View attachment 2478037
> 
> View attachment 2478038


Are those rtls and iols stable at 4500? Very weird to see iols not line up like that, i can post the same RTLS and IOLS at 4500 but it is very unstable.


----------



## munternet

YaqY said:


> Are those rtls and iols stable at 4500? Very weird to see iols not line up like that, i can post the same RTLS and IOLS at 4500 but it is very unstable.


I must admit I haven't fully tested it yet but I ran GSAT 1 hour and I've been playing BFV on it this week with no crashes. I'm just deciding which settings to spend time on refining now that the voltages are lower
Here it is al natural. I just lowered it manually
It trains this way 100% of the time
I checked back through my records and these sticks always train this way at 4500 even with different primaries
If I set 4533-16-17-17-36 it will train even every time 
4600 also trains even


----------



## 7empe

MericaShotUrAss said:


> It can be a lot more than just RTL/IOL, and ODT, can be too low or too high SA, unstable cache, not the correct DDRVTT, Training at wrong vDimm, I could go on and on. There could be one timing in specific giving you memory controller a hard time, I have 2 things right now I was working thru with 4700-16-17-17-36-2t-320 which I have tuned everything but slopes manually. One is slopes and other is 2 timing giving training grief which with them backed off makes 4700 almost identical aida64 performance as 4600c16. Which is 100% stable and repeatable training even with PSU power downs. Things most people don’t test is full psu power downs, my buddy was doing some mining recent and changed all his overclock cpu, memory, GPU and well when he changed profiles back didn’t post then he psu power downed and it posted and he destroyed MW Warzone yesterday.unstable memory! Now he’s listening to me on outing in the time and stress testing correctly.


In my case, an auto settings for ODT Nom was set too low by BIOS sometimes. I fixed WR-Park-Nom to 80-34-48 for both channels and it is stable all the time now. Any lower Nom than 40 causes instabilities.


----------



## Hequaqua

Well...not sure where I should go, if I go at all.

This is what I have atm. This is a 3466CL16 kit, B-die. All I did was set XMP, then change the speed to 4000mhz(it appears it changed the CL from 16 to 17). I pushed the voltage to 1.42(1.432 in HWiNFO64). I'm running a i7-10700k at 4.9 all core with a Ring of 4.5. VCCIO is set to 1.15v, VCCSA is at 1.2v. I think core is set to 1.23v(maybe). I've passed 1Usmus(10 passes) and Extreme1 Anta(3 passes) of TM5. Temps are not a issue.

Should I try to tighten it down a bit...or just let it fly?


----------



## mouacyk

@munternet Wow, it seems like tuning ODT really helped. 

Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mobo trains at WR=40,PARK=40,NOM=60 for 3733c15 2x16GB which is semi stable. 

After setting 80/40/40, boot is more consistent and TM5 passes multiple times. Unfortunately 3800 still errors, but I'll have to reset sub timings to test further. 

This board steps the settings in 20's, so not very fine grained. And it is 4 dimm T-Top, so that's probably why my EVGA 2-dimm clocked better.


----------



## Arctucas

YaqY said:


> I am saying you can manually set these rtls/iols so they dont change on reboot . I noticed another pic from you had them trained off.


OK, I leave them on AUTO.

When the timings are set correctly, this is where they line up. But, manually setting them has no effect.

Do you think those are good?


----------



## YaqY

Hequaqua said:


> Well...not sure where I should go, if I go at all.
> 
> This is what I have atm. This is a 3466CL16 kit, B-die. All I did was set XMP, then change the speed to 4000mhz(it appears it changed the CL from 16 to 17). I pushed the voltage to 1.42(1.432 in HWiNFO64). I'm running a i7-10700k at 4.9 all core with a Ring of 4.5. VCCIO is set to 1.15v, VCCSA is at 1.2v. I think core is set to 1.23v(maybe). I've passed 1Usmus(10 passes) and Extreme1 Anta(3 passes) of TM5. Temps are not a issue.
> 
> Should I try to tighten it down a bit...or just let it fly?
> 
> View attachment 2478147
> 
> View attachment 2478149


I would look at pushing the frequency, 4400 should be doable on this board, maybe a bit more. Have a look at this guide for more tips. integralfx/MemTestHelper


----------



## Hequaqua

YaqY said:


> I would look at pushing the frequency, 4400 should be doable on this board, maybe a bit more. Have a look at this guide for more tips. integralfx/MemTestHelper


I tried 4200 first. Increased the DRAM voltage to 1.475v, VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.25v, took the core to 1.26v. Failed in test 7 of TM5 1usmus config. 

I restarted, set the Ring down to 44, DRAM to 1.5v and changed the CL to 18, failed test 5.

I can boot at 4400 with the above voltages, but fails Test 0 within seconds of starting TM5.

I'm sure the board can do it, not sure my 10700k can, or the memory. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing....🥴


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Hequaqua said:


> I tried 4200 first. Increased the DRAM voltage to 1.475v, VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.25v, took the core to 1.26v. Failed in test 7 of TM5 1usmus config.
> 
> I restarted, set the Ring down to 44, DRAM to 1.5v and changed the CL to 18, failed test 5.
> 
> I can boot at 4400 with the above voltages, but fails Test 0 within seconds of starting TM5.
> 
> I'm sure the board can do it, not sure my 10700k can, or the memory. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing....🥴


1.25 SA/IO is most likely what’s holding you back go to 1.3vIO and 1.32SA to get started and see what it does from there. IO is mainly supporting cache and SA is supporting IMC also maybe bump your vcore up 30mv as well while tuning. Then work vcore back down and SA may need to be more than 1.32v but it’s a good starting point.


----------



## Hequaqua

You got it.....will work on it later this evening. 

Thanks!


----------



## munternet

Hequaqua said:


> You got it.....will work on it later this evening.
> 
> Thanks!


Do you know what chips are on your ram?
Can test with Thaiphoon Burner
This will have some bearing on the voltages and timings


----------



## SuperMumrik

Hi guys! I'm about to go mad here 
My 10900k + Apex with the latest bios (2004) my games will start stuttering like crazy after a few days.

Been on 0088 since the board was new and there was no such bullshit there, but I want bar support for my 3090 when it releases later this month
The fix (for a few days) is to set my rtl and iol to auto, save and exit and then back in to bios and set them manually again...
No timing values have changed(manually set) and passes memtest and testmem just fine.. 
what the f... is going on?
Anyone know whats going on?


----------



## newls1

I need your help please!! What setting/settings can I adjust to get more bandwidth and drop latency some? Ive spent HOURS just now dialing in my RTL's vs Speed, and I pretty much sold on staying @ 4000MHz CL15. Please offer me up some suggestions to try to increase mem performance. Ive spent hours today and days in the past playing with this and now just finally wanted to post this up and see what you recommend. Thanks SO MUCH FOR ANY HELP!!!


----------



## Hequaqua

munternet said:


> Do you know what chips are on your ram?
> Can test with Thaiphoon Burner
> This will have some bearing on the voltages and timings


This help?


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> I need your help please!! What setting/settings can I adjust to get more bandwidth and drop latency some? Ive spent HOURS just now dialing in my RTL's vs Speed, and I pretty much sold on staying @ 4000MHz CL15. Please offer me up some suggestions to try to increase mem performance. Ive spent hours today and days in the past playing with this and now just finally wanted to post this up and see what you recommend. Thanks SO MUCH FOR ANY HELP!!!
> 
> View attachment 2478195


ok, little change... Increased my IOL offset to 25 and now using RTL's 71 and OCCT stable and Aida64 got slightly better results. Am i on the right tract here? Mem kit is a 2x16gb CL14 3600 kit @ 4000 CL15/15/15/32 1.48v. Here is a pic to show mem timings. *PLEASE STATE IF YOU WOULD CHANGE SOMETHING??*


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@munternet 
It's not good to copy my Slopes, every Board has his own special slopes.
In "lower freqency" you will not get big Problems, but its more bad than good.
In higher frequency like 4600/4700 only the right will works, it can crash and so on.

By finding the right one It's normal that your windows can destroyed.1x i must reinstall.

The chance that you have the same Slopes is like Zero.


----------



## munternet

PhoenixMDA said:


> @munternet
> It's not good to copy my Slopes, every Board has his own special slopes.
> In "lower freqency" you will not get big Problems, but its more bad than good.
> In higher frequency like 4600/4700 only the right will works, it can crash and so on.
> 
> By finding the right one It's normal that your windows can destroyed.1x i must reinstall.
> 
> The chance that you have the same Slopes is like Zero.


I tested them all last night and they are mostly optimal at 4600-16-17-17-36
I even managed to boot 4600-17-18-18-36, something I haven't been able to do before
There is only one row i can change. It's the one about third down with the 5. I can also boot 4,6,7,8 and 9 🙂
Do some of them need changing in pairs or can they be changed individually? I will have a play with it some more on the weekend
Thanks for the warning but I have destroyed windows many times and can recover it in 15 minutes from a PCI_E board with a mounted M.2 using Acronis 😋 👍


----------



## YaqY

Hequaqua said:


> This help?
> 
> View attachment 2478196


For G.Skill ram it is recommended to check the 042 code on the sticker on the ram sticks. If the sticker ends in "10B" then it is Samsung BDie.


----------



## YaqY

newls1 said:


> ok, little change... Increased my IOL offset to 25 and now using RTL's 71 and OCCT stable and Aida64 got slightly better results. Am i on the right tract here? Mem kit is a 2x16gb CL14 3600 kit @ 4000 CL15/15/15/32 1.48v. Here is a pic to show mem timings. *PLEASE STATE IF YOU WOULD CHANGE SOMETHING??*
> 
> View attachment 2478207


Don't need to use iol offset, enable round trip latency in bios and set rtls/iols on auto, reboot then check asrock timing config/bios and set the rtls/iols manually when trained well so they dont retrain badly.


----------



## YaqY

SuperMumrik said:


> Hi guys! I'm about to go mad here
> My 10900k + Apex with the latest bios (2004) my games will start stuttering like crazy after a few days.
> 
> Been on 0088 since the board was new and there was no such bullshit there, but I want bar support for my 3090 when it releases later this month
> The fix (for a few days) is to set my rtl and iol to auto, save and exit and then back in to bios and set them manually again...
> No timing values have changed(manually set) and passes memtest and testmem just fine..
> what the f... is going on?
> Anyone know whats going on?
> 
> View attachment 2478192


I have tried 2004 and found it horrible compared to 0088 when running dual rank Bdie. I switched back to 0088, that bios seems to be horrible.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> I tested them all last night and they are mostly optimal at 4600-16-17-17-36
> I even managed to boot 4600-17-18-18-36, something I haven't been able to do before
> There is only one row i can change. It's the one about third down with the 5. I can also boot 4,6,7,8 and 9 🙂
> Do some of them need changing in pairs or can they be changed individually? I will have a play with it some more on the weekend
> Thanks for the warning but I have destroyed windows many times and can recover it in 15 minutes from a PCI_E board with a mounted M.2 using Acronis 😋 👍


I tried his slopes and got a **** ton of errors on on 4700 which is very close to stable and got **** ton of errors and crashed on my daily stable 4600 profile FYI.


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> I tried his slopes and got a *** ton of errors on on 4700 which is very close to stable and got *** ton of errors and crashed on my daily stable 4600 profile FYI.


Yeah, I'm testing as I go so not going blind
I dropped sa by 0.05v on my 4500c16 nice and solid so that worked without any changes


----------



## Hequaqua

YaqY said:


> For G.Skill ram it is recommended to check the 042 code on the sticker on the ram sticks. If the sticker ends in "10B" then it is Samsung BDie.


Oh it's B-die, but only 3466....couldn't get 4200 stable....might mess with it some more...


----------



## YaqY

Hequaqua said:


> Oh it's B-die, but only 3466....couldn't get 4200 stable....might mess with it some more...
> 
> View attachment 2478230


Might be worth looking at what PCB it is, likely A2 or A0, generally A2 BDie is better for higher clocks and stability.








Those are BDie but some poor bin bdie, likely holding you back at higher clocks, if its too much trouble to clock high just tighten it at 4000, work on subs/terts where most gains are.


----------



## Hequaqua

YaqY said:


> Might be worth looking at what PCB it is, likely A2 or A0, generally A2 BDie is better for higher clocks and stability.
> View attachment 2478239
> 
> Those are BDie but some poor bin bdie, likely holding you back at higher clocks, if its too much trouble to clock high just tighten it at 4000, work on subs/terts where most gains are.


I'll take a look at the PCB in the morning.....coming over from AMD, I'm just a bit overwhelmed with the thousand settings on Intel.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Yeah, I'm testing as I go so not going blind
> I dropped sa by 0.05v on my 4500c16 nice and solid so that worked without any changes


Yeah I will spend some time soon and try finding the slopes I need but 4700c16 is performing equal slightly slower than 4600c16 because of loosening some stuff up, and isn’t repeatable training every time. But if I can get 4800C17 stable repeatable well it’s gonna beat 4600 easily. I know my sticks can do it I’ve benched 4800c14 when I first got kit last yr. so may give it a shot when I have some time. I was playing around with my z390 master on test bench because I’m gonna make an undervolted profile and do some mining with one of my 2080ti and ran some tm5 with 9900k at 5ghz/47cache 1.24vcore, LLC high 1.32Sa/IO 
4400-16-17-17-36-2t-280-1.54v and got 2 errors after like 5 loops of anta 4x8gb so might be a hair too low on trfc. My buddy was telling me that vram and system ram is heavily used mining ETH. But for the guys asking about Aorus master, staying at 3900mhz is just dumb unless you are frequency limited or gonna run 3900c12 which I doubt you will daily stable I had it almost stable but 4400 still destroys it.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

munternet said:


> I tested them all last night and they are mostly optimal at 4600-16-17-17-36
> I even managed to boot 4600-17-18-18-36, something I haven't been able to do before
> There is only one row i can change. It's the one about third down with the 5. I can also boot 4,6,7,8 and 9 🙂
> Do some of them need changing in pairs or can they be changed individually? I will have a play with it some more on the weekend
> Thanks for the warning but I have destroyed windows many times and can recover it in 15 minutes from a PCI_E board with a mounted M.2 using Acronis 😋 👍


N.p. you must test it, i cant really say how much different it is, on Z390 with 4 dimm was not possible for other to paßt and copy, but there it was much more little the window of value.

It takes time, but if you find good values, it much more consistent


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

PhoenixMDA said:


> N.p. you must test it, i cant really say how much different it is, on Z390 with 4 dimm was not possible for other to paßt and copy, but there it was much more little the window of value.
> 
> It takes time, but if you find good values, it much more consistent


I used your slope values on m12A just to see but gives me a good starting point for trying to daily higher than 4600c16


----------



## bei fei

Need a little advice...

Coming from Z390 with an 8700K I was able to take my 2x16 B-die 3200c14 Gskill kit to 3733C14 with tight subs. My SP116 19000k with an Asus Z490i board cannot post with 3600c14.

What do I need to look at on Z490 vs Z390 to get the memory up?


----------



## newls1

YaqY said:


> Don't need to use iol offset, enable round trip latency in bios and set rtls/iols on auto, reboot then check asrock timing config/bios and set the rtls/iols manually when trained well so they dont retrain badly.


I dont see that option in my MSI bios, is it named something different for MSI? And ive rebooted and shut off this pC many times, and its trained the exact same way upon boot. Are my current RTL/IOL's not optimal?


----------



## Imprezzion

If in the MSI BIOS you set RTL/IOs on Fixed mode it should work about the same. 

I got a mate with a 10900KF and a MSI Ace and he bought a new set of my exact RAM, Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 GTZN with B-Die. They are definitely different revisions tho, PCB looks slightly different.

They are quite a lot better then mine as well doing a quick and dirty 4400 17-17-17-36-370-2T at very low voltages like, 1.42v DRAM, 1.25v SA 1.20v IO. I'm impressed.


----------



## munternet

PhoenixMDA said:


> N.p. you must test it, i cant really say how much different it is, on Z390 with 4 dimm was not possible for other to paßt and copy, but there it was much more little the window of value.
> 
> It takes time, but if you find good values, it much more consistent


Yes, setting 4600-16-17-17-36 now and the numbers so far are completely different from your numbers which worked great on my 4500-16-17-17-36
I managed to set about half the slopes after work yesterday (about 5 hours) and I'm into the home stretch but I think I will have to re-visit them after improving the main ram settings and pushing performance a little


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> ok, little change... Increased my IOL offset to 25 and now using RTL's 71 and OCCT stable and Aida64 got slightly better results. Am i on the right tract here? Mem kit is a 2x16gb CL14 3600 kit @ 4000 CL15/15/15/32 1.48v. Here is a pic to show mem timings. *PLEASE STATE IF YOU WOULD CHANGE SOMETHING??*
> 
> View attachment 2478207


Ok, little confused here and need guidance please. I spent hours tuning this memory yesterday and found this equation to "help" figure out which RTL's to use

IO-L + IO-L OFFSET + CL (X2) +10

So given that equation, I use the following

4+25+15 (x2) +10 = 69

Im using RTL 71 though from above picture and getting good results compaired to all the other combos ive tried yesterday. Should I manually set 69 in the BIOS and check performance or am I ok with using 71?? This is some uber confusing stuff!!!


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Yes, setting 4600-16-17-17-36 now and the numbers so far are completely different from your numbers which worked great on my 4500-16-17-17-36
> I managed to set about half the slopes after work yesterday (about 5 hours) and I'm into the home stretch but I think I will have to re-visit them after improving the main ram settings and pushing performance a little


Yes every frequency and every set of primaries will have slightly different slope values, and Vref may be different as well. So keep that in mind, if your gonna set them stick to tightest possible primaries 16-17-17-36 
16-16-16-36 ect because once you change them one of the slopes will change. Also
trcd = CAS vs TRCD +1 of CAS is so little of a latency improvement but can drastically hurt bandwidth. I loosened to 4600-16-17-17-36-2t and was able to tighten up decent amount which equates to higher read/write/copy with identical latency in aida64 within margins of error .1-.2ns


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

by doing so also took strain off cache which will provide more benefit. I wanted to keep apples to apples, might not be worth chasing straight primaries, would have saved myself a lot of time if I wasn’t so hard headed because kit does straights tight all the way up to 4400 with no penalty to cache with ease. Look at next clock bin and see if it’s Efficient enough that you won’t have to loosen up too much that it’s not worth it. 4700 is worth it for me just need to put some more work into it, I’m really close but still far off but I was breaking 74k read/write and copy was 71k 😉 and TRFC well kinda crap shoot for daily I don’t see no reason not to loosen it up slightly for big gains on a clock bin, because at these high frequencies it just upsets a lot of things, and +20-80 really isn’t gonna hurt too much, I was down at 260 trfc when I started getting errors or locking up cache, 280 passed for 4hrs OCCT memtest and largedata so backing off to a safe place can save you some trouble, on tightening everything else up.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

newls1 said:


> Ok, little confused here and need guidance please. I spent hours tuning this memory yesterday and found this equation to "help" figure out which RTL's to use
> 
> IO-L + IO-L OFFSET + CL (X2) +10
> 
> So given that equation, I use the following
> 
> 4+25+15 (x2) +10 = 69
> 
> Im using RTL 71 though from above picture and getting good results compaired to all the other combos ive tried yesterday. Should I manually set 69 in the BIOS and check performance or am I ok with using 71?? This is some uber confusing stuff!!!


RTL 71 is super loose for 4000 CAS-15
What kit is that SR or DR and I assume bdie by timings, look at my pic above which is 4600 CAS-16 RTL 63/63/8/8 
Your RTL should be somewhere around 58-60 which I think you might be at 60 and confusing RTL INT values as actual RTL. Can’t tell from unpopulated which cha/dimm is used because doesn’t show memory size location


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

newls1 said:


> Ok, little confused here and need guidance please. I spent hours tuning this memory yesterday and found this equation to "help" figure out which RTL's to use
> 
> IO-L + IO-L OFFSET + CL (X2) +10
> 
> So given that equation, I use the following
> 
> 4+25+15 (x2) +10 = 69
> 
> Im using RTL 71 though from above picture and getting good results compaired to all the other combos ive tried yesterday. Should I manually set 69 in the BIOS and check performance or am I ok with using 71?? This is some uber confusing stuff!!!


This equation is from the past mainly for people to set RTL INT. For tightening it you can replace "10" with anything between 1~3.


----------



## davidm71

Hi guys,

Having trouble with keeping these Gskill cas 14 2x16gb dual rank sticks stable at below stock settings. Tried running HWinfo and the app locked up today. Maybe nothing but makes me wonder is having dual rank cas 14 comparable to higher frequency operations?

My setup:
9700K at 4.6 ghz fixed @ 1.280 volts
Vccio at 1.15v
Vcssa at 2.0v
Ram XMP 3200 @ 2600mhz cas 14
Coffeelake mod running on Apex IX Z270 board


----------



## newls1

MericaShotUrAss said:


> RTL 71 is super loose for 4000 CAS-15
> What kit is that SR or DR and I assume bdie by timings, look at my pic above which is 4600 CAS-16 RTL 63/63/8/8
> Your RTL should be somewhere around 58-60 which I think you might be at 60 and confusing RTL INT values as actual RTL. Can’t tell from unpopulated which cha/dimm is used because doesn’t show memory size location


its this memory right here .... G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK - Newegg.com
what should i set the rtl's too? Damn it, thought i was doing good!


----------



## munternet

newls1 said:


> its this memory right here .... G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK - Newegg.com
> what should i set the rtl's too? Damn it, thought i was doing good!


That ram looks great but what system do you have now? Not the one in your sig?
The reason I ask is something is out of line and holding you back on your primaries by the look of your configurator shot. Buying new ram might not necessarily solve anything
What are your iol offsets?
tRFC and tREFI could do with adjusting to bring up your performance


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

newls1 said:


> its this memory right here .... G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK - Newegg.com
> what should i set the rtl's too? Damn it, thought i was doing good!


No you don't need. Your RTLs are 60 and 61, good enough. The two "71" are only the RTL training initials for that two unpopulated slots.


----------



## munternet

Not quite stable but it gives me something to work on 
Always thought I was hardware limited but it seems a combination of Vref, skews and slopes will help considerably
Boots consistently and only has the odd single error in GSAT not clusters







I appreciate all the help


----------



## newls1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> No you don't need. Your RTLs are 60 and 61, good enough. The two "71" are only the RTL training initials for that two unpopulated slots.


OOOOH, OK! So im looking ok then? appreciate your reply


----------



## newls1

munternet said:


> That ram looks great but what system do you have now? Not the one in your sig?
> The reason I ask is something is out of line and holding you back on your primaries by the look of your configurator shot. Buying new ram might not necessarily solve anything
> What are your iol offsets?
> tRFC and tREFI could do with adjusting to bring up your performance


My system is a 10900k @ 5.2 on a z490 MSI tomahawk, and a 6900XT gpu.... I see people with tREFI @ 30000+ all the time and just never adjusted it and tRFC i guess i was just happy with it where i set it last but where would you think i should adjust these to settings at? Appreciate your reply and assistance!


----------



## Imprezzion

So, if I get the previous few posts correctly my RTL should be 63 to 65 judging by the formula with +1~3 but I can't run that. It won't even POST that low.

I got 4400 straight 17's with IO-L 6 and offset 22. RTL is 66 tho. 65 or lower doesn't train nor POST at all. 

Is there a big downside to running 66/66/6/6 compared to 63/63/6/6 for example? IO-L won't go any lower than 6 either. 

On 4533 17-19-19 it's even further off. 67/67/7/7 is the best I can get there. 4200C16 does match with the formula doing 62/62/5/5 just fine.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Not quite stable but it gives me something to work on
> Always thought I was hardware limited but it seems a combination of Vref, skews and slopes will help considerably
> Boots consistently and only has the odd single error in GSAT not clusters
> View attachment 2478445
> 
> I appreciate all the help


Nice job bud, the random errors if 1 here and there in say OCCT memtest will usually be TRFC or you may be around 10-20mv off depending how tm5 went. Going from 328 to say 360 is so minor, you are using the trfc formula right? I ditched that yrs yrs ago, I just work in steps of 20 and once I find stable usually bump up 20 from there. Also TREFI could be cause! I’m fine tuning voltage right now on 4700 passed tm5 and OCCT but crashed a core and thread 6hrs in p95 on 448fft but I still have to hit reset on cold boot give code 55 sometimes and just hit reset and it trains.


----------



## munternet

newls1 said:


> My system is a 10900k @ 5.2 on a z490 MSI tomahawk, and a 6900XT gpu.... I see people with tREFI @ 30000+ all the time and just never adjusted it and tRFC i guess i was just happy with it where i set it last but where would you think i should adjust these to settings at? Appreciate your reply and assistance!


What's up with the 4017 frequency?
Your board should max out tREFI easy and do 320ish tRFC at that frequency. Are you testing with Aida to see what gains you get?
It looks to be a solid board but things may need a little work to align 
Hardware unboxed on Youtube really likes it 
What are the current ram sticks?


MericaShotUrAss said:


> Nice job bud, the random errors if 1 here and there in say OCCT memtest will usually be TRFC or you may be around 10-20mv off depending how tm5 went. Going from 328 to say 360 is so minor, you are using the trfc formula right? I ditched that yrs yrs ago, I just work in steps of 20 and once I find stable usually bump up 20 from there. Also TREFI could be cause! I’m fine tuning voltage right now on 4700 passed tm5 and OCCT but crashed a core and thread 6hrs in p95 on 448fft but I still have to hit reset on cold boot give code 55 sometimes and just hit reset and it trains.


While I'm getting the odd error I will go through the slopes again. After that I will go through the tRFC and voltages etc
Never been very good with formulas but I keep a book with all my trial and error stuff to see what works with what as a reference
Nice work with the 4700  It seems like getting it to boot consistently is a major step in taming it


----------



## newls1

munternet said:


> What's up with the 4017 frequency?
> Your board should max out tREFI easy and do 320ish tRFC at that frequency. Are you testing with Aida to see what gains you get?
> It looks to be a solid board but things may need a little work to align
> Hardware unboxed on Youtube really likes it
> What are the current ram sticks?
> 
> While I'm getting the odd error I will go through the slopes again. After that I will go through the tRFC and voltages etc
> Never been very good with formulas but I keep a book with all my trial and error stuff to see what works with what as a reference
> Nice work with the 4700  It seems like getting it to boot consistently is a major step in taming it


the 4017 freq is becuase of the 100.7 bclk im using. the ram stick are these G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK - Newegg.com I'll adjust those settings and report back, thank you sir 

**EDIT* Changed tREFI to 65xxx and tRFC to 350 and JEBUS! Latency is now 36ns and Read/Write/Copy all increased 500+ MB/s Thank you!


----------



## munternet

newls1 said:


> the 4017 freq is becuase of the 100.7 bclk im using. the ram stick are these G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK - Newegg.com I'll adjust those settings and report back, thank you sir
> 
> **EDIT* Changed tREFI to 65xxx and tRFC to 350 and JEBUS! Latency is now 36ns and Read/Write/Copy all increased 500+ MB/s Thank you!


Congrats on the gains  
I was told when I upped my bclk some time back that there isn't much point and to look for gains elsewhere. Can harm other hardware's performance. For me network suffered with dropouts
I see you haven't added this build to your sig yet and have some future plans already but you haven't really maxed this one out yet. It looks like a very nice system


----------



## newls1

munternet said:


> Congrats on the gains
> I was told when I upped my bclk some time back that there isn't much point and to look for gains elsewhere. Can harm other hardware's performance. For me network suffered with dropouts
> I see you haven't added this build to your sig yet and have some future plans already but you haven't really maxed this one out yet. It looks like a very nice system


Appreciate your feedback. I always up my bclk just a tad to avoid my Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) from kicking in when I see 5198MHz vs 5200Mhz LOL, slight bump in bclk fixes that for me! I have to remove the 5950x from my signature, I already had that setup with a asus crosshair VIII Dark board and did not like it. Just to "complicated" for me and just never felt butter smooth like my 10900K pc's ive built in the past. So I sold that setup to a local guy here in the ATL area, and bought another 10900K and a "Lesser Expensive" Z490 board and have been so surprised how well this motherboard is! Ive always been the guy that bought 4-600$ motherboards thinking its always the best OC'ing platform foundation, and man was I wrong and feel for marketing! This MSI Tomahawk has been AMAZING for OCing and Memory clocking. Recovers instantly on bad bios settings, but oc's the same if not better then my Asus Maximus Hero XII I had prior. 500$ board vs 189$ board.... WOW!!! its gonna take me Zen 4 and Intels Alderlake (both DDR5 platforms) to upgrade next.


----------



## munternet

newls1 said:


> Appreciate your feedback. I always up my bclk just a tad to avoid my Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) from kicking in when I see 5198MHz vs 5200Mhz LOL, slight bump in bclk fixes that for me! I have to remove the 5950x from my signature, I already had that setup with a asus crosshair VIII Dark board and did not like it. Just to "complicated" for me and just never felt butter smooth like my 10900K pc's ive built in the past. So I sold that setup to a local guy here in the ATL area, and bought another 10900K and a "Lesser Expensive" Z490 board and have been so surprised how well this motherboard is! Ive always been the guy that bought 4-600$ motherboards thinking its always the best OC'ing platform foundation, and man was I wrong and feel for marketing! This MSI Tomahawk has been AMAZING for OCing and Memory clocking. Recovers instantly on bad bios settings, but oc's the same if not better then my Asus Maximus Hero XII I had prior. 500$ board vs 189$ board.... WOW!!! its gonna take me Zen 4 and Intels Alderlake (both DDR5 platforms) to upgrade next.


I hear ya LOL  
That's why I don't like to run 4400 (4387)
I think you will have many hours of enjoyment from the system you have now


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> What's up with the 4017 frequency?
> Your board should max out tREFI easy and do 320ish tRFC at that frequency. Are you testing with Aida to see what gains you get?
> It looks to be a solid board but things may need a little work to align
> Hardware unboxed on Youtube really likes it
> What are the current ram sticks?
> 
> While I'm getting the odd error I will go through the slopes again. After that I will go through the tRFC and voltages etc
> Never been very good with formulas but I keep a book with all my trial and error stuff to see what works with what as a reference
> Nice work with the 4700  It seems like getting it to boot consistently is a major step in taming it


Have you tried lowering Vref and increasing it? .525 is a good starting point but as you tighten things up or increase frequency it will need a slight adjustment up or down, it kinda scales with vDIMM and VTT from what I noticed. If I increase vDimm and decreased Vref by 10mv things would stabilize ect. Yeah 4700 is ****ing ******ed compared to 4600 to make useful gains since 4600 is maxed out on everything. But here’s what’s 99.5% stable/repeatable it’s a balancing act on everything but feel like a lot harder than say single rank 5000-17-17-17-37-2t was which was 99% stable when I switch to DR for daily.


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Have you tried lowering Vref and increasing it? .525 is a good starting point but as you tighten things up or increase frequency it will need a slight adjustment up or down, it kinda scales with vDIMM and VTT from what I noticed. If I increase vDimm and decreased Vref by 10mv things would stabilize ect. Yeah 4700 is ****ing ******ed compared to 4600 to make useful gains since 4600 is maxed out on everything. But here’s what’s 99.5% stable/repeatable it’s a balancing act on everything but feel like a lot harder than say single rank 5000-17-17-17-37-2t was which was 99% stable when I switch to DR for daily.


Yeah, I know what you mean
I've pretty much given up on 4700 after corrupting my BIOS twice today and Windows once  I'm trying the 0088 BIOS again and staying with 4600

I noticed it doesn't seem to affect performance at all in Aida with the value you put in IO-L or IO-L offset as long as they add up to 29 in my case


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean
> I've pretty much given up on 4700 after corrupting my BIOS twice today and Windows once  I'm trying the 0088 BIOS again and staying with 4600
> 
> I noticed it doesn't seem to affect performance at all in Aida with the value you put in IO-L or IO-L offset as long as they add up to 29 in my case
> View attachment 2478570
> 
> View attachment 2478571


Welcome to the club of break in the bios! Yeah I need to get that 2004 bios off my other chip, haven’t used flashback utility yet that’s why I haven’t tried 4800. 4700 is stable now testing trdrd_dr -5 
Honestly 0088 is solid and unless bar support is gonna be amazing I would stick with it or try 1003. I may go and test 1003 with all my same settings and see how it goes when I have some time.


----------



## Placekicker19

Trying to get 4700 17 17 17 36 stable but got a single error in tm5 anta777 around 52 minutes in test 6. Dimm @ 1.535v, 1.335 io/1.385sa. I did test with a slightly lower dimm voltage which made it error much quicker, im hoping all i need is a bit more dimm voltage for stability. Temps under 38c on both dimms.

Skew settings are so important for stability at higher frequencies. Using auto skews, with my settings above, i made it 1 minute before i started getting errors in tm5, manually setting skews made it 52 minutes.

With sa and io voltage, monitoring software reads between 20-40mv higher than what i set in bios. Im not sure if i should go by what is being reported in software, or the actual voltage I set in bios. I hooked a multimeter to boards voltage readouts and it reports the same as software basically. Im just not sure which I should go by.


----------



## YaqY

Placekicker19 said:


> Trying to get 4700 17 17 17 36 stable but got a single error in tm5 anta777 around 52 minutes in test 6. Dimm @ 1.535v, 1.335 io/1.385sa. I did test with a slightly lower dimm voltage which made it error much quicker, im hoping all i need is a bit more dimm voltage for stability. Temps under 38c on both dimms.
> 
> Skew settings are so important for stability at higher frequencies. Using auto skews, with my settings above, i made it 1 minute before i started getting errors in tm5, manually setting skews made it 52 minutes.
> 
> With sa and io voltage, monitoring software reads between 20-40mv higher than what i set in bios. Im not sure if i should go by what is being reported in software, or the actual voltage I set in bios. I hooked a multimeter to boards voltage readouts and it reports the same as software basically. Im just not sure which I should go by.


I usually go from what i set in bios, i suspect the monitoring software readings aren't accurate. Are you running 2x16 or 2x8 at this speed?


----------



## acoustic

If you hooked up a multimeter and read it from the board, and it matches the software, why wouldn't you listen to the software?


----------



## YaqY

acoustic said:


> If you hooked up a multimeter and read it from the board, and it matches the software, why wouldn't you listen to the software?


Because the board doesn't always probe voltages from the correct point, for example the Z490 dark and vcore probing would give a socket reading.


----------



## Imprezzion

I did that on my MSI Ace, it has vCore, IO, SA and DRAM readout points. 

Most reported voltages for that board are too high. SA set to 1.40v reports 1.420v but actual DMM measurement is more like 1.39v. IO 1.35v set, 1.360v software, 1.33v DMM. DRAM 1.520v set, 1.536v software, 1.52v DMM.


----------



## itssladenlol

Placekicker19 said:


> Trying to get 4700 17 17 17 36 stable but got a single error in tm5 anta777 around 52 minutes in test 6. Dimm @ 1.535v, 1.335 io/1.385sa. I did test with a slightly lower dimm voltage which made it error much quicker, im hoping all i need is a bit more dimm voltage for stability. Temps under 38c on both dimms.
> 
> Skew settings are so important for stability at higher frequencies. Using auto skews, with my settings above, i made it 1 minute before i started getting errors in tm5, manually setting skews made it 52 minutes.
> 
> With sa and io voltage, monitoring software reads between 20-40mv higher than what i set in bios. Im not sure if i should go by what is being reported in software, or the actual voltage I set in bios. I hooked a multimeter to boards voltage readouts and it reports the same as software basically. Im just not sure which I should go by.


For 4700 c17 you need atleast 1,56-1,57 vdimm


----------



## asdkj1740

any oc tips for samsung b die 16g*2 (dual rank & doubled sided) on 4 dimm mobo (6 layers)?
watched lummi videos, 1.4v for sa and io seems to be a good start for 24/7 stable oc, but how far should we go, especially what he used is 2dimm 10pcb layers mobo.


----------



## Imprezzion

Wouldn't go any higher than 1.45v SA 1.40v IO 24/7. Anything above that is way past efficiency for.the memory and you're better off just settling for a lower frequency.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

asdkj1740 said:


> any oc tips for samsung b die 16g*2 (dual rank & doubled sided) on 4 dimm mobo (6 layers)?
> watched lummi videos, 1.4v for sa and io seems to be a good start for 24/7 stable oc, but how far should we go, especially what he used is 2dimm 10pcb layers mobo.


Start with say 1.3v SA/IO and see how your cache scales on cpu first, once you have your cache maxed and given frequency on cpu end, then push memory so you have an ideal when you start to upset your cpu, IO voltage 99% of the time will not go up more than 20mv when railing memory, but SA will need to be increased along the journey. If you go too high on SA trying to force something to work will just upset IMC so better to start low test and work in small incremental changes on IMC. Smashing 1.4v + SA is dumb I’ve run SR 4800-14-14-14-28-2t with 1.35v and if I smash 1.45v it just gets stupid. There’s a happy zone for IMC at high frequency usually around +/- 30mv
I will set like say 5.3/47cache and test p95 4-112fft in place avx/non avx and increase cache till it errors, 1.28-1.35 IO once I find highest with 5 loops of those FFT that will be my cache and IO I run and it should not change until extreme settings, I only increase IO when benching at like really high cache like 54+ cache like when I was benching cinebench r20 at 5.65/54 cache I upped it from my 1.32v IO to 1.36v IO but if I run 5.2/50, 5.3/50, 5.4/50 IO will be 1.30v until I run insane memory setting like I do on dual rank then it takes 20mv more


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Well with what I have figured out on 4700c16 has allowed me to completely max out 4600c16 final 4600 results daily stable still working on 4700 when I have time.


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Well with what I have figured out on 4700c16 has allowed me to completely max out 4600c16 final 4600 results daily stable still working on 4700 when I have time.


Almost identical to what I ended up with 10 posts up with read, write over 71000 and copy over 70000 
I didn't push all my secondary's lower because I didn't see any gain
I just can't do a decent 4700c16 but good luck 


Placekicker19 said:


> Trying to get 4700 17 17 17 36 stable but got a single error in tm5 anta777 around 52 minutes in test 6. Dimm @ 1.535v, 1.335 io/1.385sa. I did test with a slightly lower dimm voltage which made it error much quicker, im hoping all i need is a bit more dimm voltage for stability. Temps under 38c on both dimms.
> 
> Skew settings are so important for stability at higher frequencies. Using auto skews, with my settings above, i made it 1 minute before i started getting errors in tm5, manually setting skews made it 52 minutes.
> 
> With sa and io voltage, monitoring software reads between 20-40mv higher than what i set in bios. Im not sure if i should go by what is being reported in software, or the actual voltage I set in bios. I hooked a multimeter to boards voltage readouts and it reports the same as software basically. Im just not sure which I should go by.


Good stuff mate 
Software is a good bet for voltage monitoring if it matches the multimeter 
Any chance you can list your hardware in your sig to make it easier for people following your results?
Have you set Vref and slopes also?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> Almost identical to what I ended up with 10 posts up with read, write over 71000 and copy over 70000
> I didn't push all my secondary's lower because I didn't see any gain
> I just can't do a decent 4700c16 but good luck
> 
> Good stuff mate
> Software is a good bet for voltage monitoring if it matches the multimeter
> Any chance you can list your hardware in your sig to make it easier for people following your results?
> Have you set Vref and slopes also?


4700 is looking good so far, I’m in the home stretch of testing it. But it’s repeatable,
there are gains to be made Aida just doesn’t show them, everything in 4600c16 is at the floor those are the fastest they go for performance on DR minus trfc. I’m getting 72.5k read write with 70.5copy in Aida btw so little higher than you and I’m creeping on 74k/71 copy on 4700c16 getting a random error that is relate to vdimm/vtt most likely because I’m running same 10mv higher on 4700 vs 4600.
I have set Vref/slopes and some other stuff. I do things little different than the way some of you guys do Vref and slopes are new and took little time to figure out how they work, but will tell you this if I had an oscilloscope and setup couple multimeters I’m almost positive that there is a relationship between, ODT, vdimm, vtt, Vref, and slopes so any change you make on vdimm will change Vref, which in turn will change your slope values. So don’t try using someone else’s, you will just chase your tail and waste 20+ hrs of your life. Start one by one with something that will pass say 5 loops of 1umas tm5 and change on at a time, and also make sure to check with OCCT largedata set for 20 mins you can pass tm5 anta extreme and throw 1000 errors in 10 mins in large data if they are not right, usually it will insta crash or error between 3-10 mins.


----------



## asdkj1740

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Start with say 1.3v SA/IO and see how your cache scales on cpu first, once you have your cache maxed and given frequency on cpu end, then push memory so you have an ideal when you start to upset your cpu, IO voltage 99% of the time will not go up more than 20mv when railing memory, but SA will need to be increased along the journey. If you go too high on SA trying to force something to work will just upset IMC so better to start low test and work in small incremental changes on IMC. Smashing 1.4v + SA is dumb I’ve run SR 4800-14-14-14-28-2t with 1.35v and if I smash 1.45v it just gets stupid. There’s a happy zone for IMC at high frequency usually around +/- 30mv
> I will set like say 5.3/47cache and test p95 4-112fft in place avx/non avx and increase cache till it errors, 1.28-1.35 IO once I find highest with 5 loops of those FFT that will be my cache and IO I run and it should not change until extreme settings, I only increase IO when benching at like really high cache like 54+ cache like when I was benching cinebench r20 at 5.65/54 cache I upped it from my 1.32v IO to 1.36v IO but if I run 5.2/50, 5.3/50, 5.4/50 IO will be 1.30v until I run insane memory setting like I do on dual rank then it takes 20mv more


thanks for your reply.
from what i have heard 1.5v for io and sa is still safe so i don't worry much about such level of sa and io.
i have seen some very good 24/7 stable 4600mhz(~4800?) c17 dual rank samsung b die results on 2 dimm mobos.
i just wonder what should i expect in general given the average imc, how high is the ceiling of 4 dimm mobos with 6 layers only, so that i wont smash too much voltages for almost nothing.
i am trying to aim at 4500mhz. now i got 4000c17 stable for 1.35v set for sa and io.
i left the cache untouched, i was planning to get the ram oc finished before playing with cache. is that so important to real performance gain or would it lower the oc room of ram?


----------



## Imprezzion

It mostly affects RAM latency, and by quite a bit. 4.7 cache is basically the sweet spot, anything above is nice to have if stable.


----------



## Placekicker19

YaqY said:


> I usually go from what i set in bios, i suspect the monitoring software readings aren't accurate. Are you running 2x16 or 2x8 at this speed?


2x8


----------



## Placekicker19

munternet said:


> Almost identical to what I ended up with 10 posts up with read, write over 71000 and copy over 70000
> I didn't push all my secondary's lower because I didn't see any gain
> I just can't do a decent 4700c16 but good luck
> 
> Good stuff mate
> Software is a good bet for voltage monitoring if it matches the multimeter
> Any chance you can list your hardware in your sig to make it easier for people following your results?
> Have you set Vref and slopes also?


Im on a z490 dark, using a bios evga sent me that doesn't have vref and slope settings. I'm not sure if the xoc bios has them but I know it doesnt have ppd which the bios im using finally has. My electricity has been out most the day due to the weather, were suppose to be getting like 9 inches of snow tonight/morning, nothing like being snowed in with no power.


----------



## munternet

Placekicker19 said:


> Im on a z490 dark, using a bios evga sent me that doesn't have vref and slope settings. I'm not sure if the xoc bios has them but I know it doesnt have ppd which the bios im using finally has. My electricity has been out most the day due to the weather, were suppose to be getting like 9 inches of snow tonight/morning, nothing like being snowed in with no power.


Maybe the Dark manages those settings well itself? I saw a guy on youtube doing well with it
I had all but given up stabilizing 4600c16 on the Apex XII before I was shown those
Hopefully the power is on tomorrow


----------



## asdkj1740

Imprezzion said:


> It mostly affects RAM latency, and by quite a bit. 4.7 cache is basically the sweet spot, anything above is nice to have if stable.


i will try that when i have the new bios. the current bios mess with avx offset constantly causing core frequencies to drop to avx offset level even at idle. so i would leave the cache at idle for now.
thank you.


----------



## Placekicker19

munternet said:


> Maybe the Dark manages those settings well itself? I saw a guy on youtube doing well with it
> I had all but given up stabilizing 4600c16 on the Apex XII before I was shown those
> Hopefully the power is on tomorrow


Haha me to man, its pretty miserable without power and being so nasty out. Normally im in FL. this time of the year too. Yeah the dark seems to do pretty well until things become super unstable from tweaking to much, then I'll have to clear cmos and unplug pc to get things working right again.

At 4700 c17 tightening rtls required different skew settings. Just lowering by 1 with my current skew settings caused a hard lock in the bios.


----------



## itssladenlol

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Well with what I have figured out on 4700c16 has allowed me to completely max out 4600c16 final 4600 results daily stable still working on 4700 when I have time.


Got voltages and skews for your 4600 c16?
Would be interested


----------



## munternet

itssladenlol said:


> Got voltages and skews for your 4600 c16?
> Would be interested


I might even run slopes on another set of skews to see if different combinations work 
Who's to say my slopes were right when I set my skews?


----------



## newls1

Tweaking the ram in my other machine I have and just looking for y'alls input how these RTL's and I-OL's look to you? Should I tweak them more or stay here.... For its given freq, im pretty much maxed out i think


----------



## Intrud3r

Was running 4133 16-17-17 until I decided to go for another GSAT run. That was not a succes however TM5 anta didn't have any troubles. Within 10 minutes I would get an error in GSAT. Tried upping vcore and vccio till imho acceptable values. No success. Decided to drop it back to 4000 and ran that for a week. Of course I couldn't resist and went back to 4100 (base clock of 100.1 that's why you see 2052.5).

This ran GSAT without any problems ... I know TM5 will pass this as I've tested 4100 and 4133 with tm5 many times before.
Still have my cache running at 4.6 so that's the last thing I'll try and up to 4.7. 5.1 on the core for this cpu needs to much voltage for my meager kraken 360 AIO.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Intrud3r said:


> Was running 4133 16-17-17 until I decided to go for another GSAT run. That was not a succes however TM5 anta didn't have any troubles. Within 10 minutes I would get an error in GSAT. Tried upping vcore and vccio till imho acceptable values. No success. Decided to drop it back to 4000 and ran that for a week. Of course I couldn't resist and went back to 4100 (base clock of 100.1 that's why you see 2052.5).
> 
> This ran GSAT without any problems ... I know TM5 will pass this as I've tested 4100 and 4133 with tm5 many times before.
> Still have my cache running at 4.6 so that's the last thing I'll try and up to 4.7. 5.1 on the core for this cpu needs to much voltage for my meager kraken 360 AIO.
> 
> View attachment 2478974


VCore might be too high for 5GHz. High imc temp can cause instability.


----------



## Intrud3r

This is what is set in bios, under load it drops to 1.275-1.285 with SSE loads en about 1.312-1.324 under AVX loads


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

asdkj1740 said:


> any oc tips for samsung b die 16g*2 (dual rank & doubled sided) on 4 dimm mobo (6 layers)?
> watched lummi videos, 1.4v for sa and io seems to be a good start for 24/7 stable oc, but how far should we go, especially what he used is 2dimm 10pcb layers mobo.


You should be able to understand this just fine.











2-Dimm 10 layers because that was an ITX board, need layers for wiring. ROG M12 APEX is also a 6-layer board.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Intrud3r said:


> This is what is set in bios, under load it drops to 1.275-1.285 with SSE loads en about 1.312-1.324 under AVX loads


Don't know giga but this doesn't make sense. AVX should have much higher vdrop. Can try to set 1.32V in the bios and set medium LLC. This is the normal point for 10700K all core 5G AVX.


----------



## Placekicker19

Thought I got 4700 cl 17 stable but just realized i forgot to set tREFI to 65000, lol.
What would most likely cause system a restart while running tm5? I got one after about 30 minutes so i upped sa/io and dimm by 10mv and everything passed, so adding voltage fixed it, I just dont know which voltage fixed it


----------



## YaqY

Placekicker19 said:


> Thought I got 4700 cl 17 stable but just realized i forgot to set tREFI to 65000, lol.
> What would most likely cause system a restart while running tm5? I got one after about 30 minutes so i upped sa/io and dimm by 10mv and everything passed, so adding voltage fixed it, I just dont know which voltage fixed it


Usually when you get a restart running tm5 SA/IO is too low, Sometimes this can be a BSOD and restart or just a black screen restart. Usually i will test IMC voltages with a test such as OCCT Large AVX 2 which will spit out errors if SA/IO is too low. Prime 95 With specific FFT Sizes can be utilised aswell.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Test also GSat 1h if you finshed do an reboot, go to Bios and reboot a second Time, if you got no Booterror it's good.
If you get an boot error than its bad and you must change settings.In 24/7 it must be safe in every case.
In higher frequency like 4600/4700 is CL17 better you need lower vdimm, with nearly same performance, but its mor difficult as cl16.

Also test memtest for 1h+.


----------



## YaqY

Does anyone have any experience with the 55 Post code with dual rank BDIE on the M12 Apex. I have been testing a 4600 CL16 Profile, for one day i was passing stress tests fine, manual slopes, vref, rtls/iols, ODTS, the following day i go to test and it wont boot even with some retries, running into 55 code a lot. MCH Fullcheck is enabled and MRC Fastboot disabled. I am unsure of why i can boot normally one day then the following day have such issues. This becomes more common at 4500+. I was passing 3 cycles TM5 anta extreme fine. GSAT 1 Hour too.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the 55 Post code with dual rank BDIE on the M12 Apex. I have been testing a 4600 CL16 Profile, for one day i was passing stress tests fine, manual slopes, vref, rtls/iols, ODTS, the following day i go to test and it wont boot even with some retries, running into 55 code a lot. MCH Fullcheck is enabled and MRC Fastboot disabled. I am unsure of why i can boot normally one day then the following day have such issues. This becomes more common at 4500+. I was passing 3 cycles TM5 anta extreme fine. GSAT 1 Hour too.


55 with yellow light on should be a training error, you can adjust sub timings or vdimm to solve it. 55 with no lights on should be the limitation of sticks, which means you might need to up your primaries.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 55 with yellow light on should be a training error, you can adjust sub timings or vdimm to solve it. 55 with no lights on should be the limitation of sticks, which means you might need to up your primaries.


I don't think its a vdimm error sadly or primary errors, i had these timings pass 3 cycles of TM5 anta extreme the previous day. Seems like something else is the issue, these sticks have posted 4666 before but inconsistently, have also benched 4600C14 through geekbench. Even with auto subtimings it doesn't train consistently sometimes.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

itssladenlol said:


> Got voltages and skews for your 4600 c16?
> Would be interested


This particular kit uses 120-60-0 ODT and 1.64vdimm .825vtt for 
4600-16-17-17-34-2t-280
Basically every timing on the floor like I posted earlier. 4700 is almost 100% stable and repeatable just trying to drop couple timings down still and I’m running 1.65-1.66vdimm with trfc-320 right now. Just really busy with work and stuff.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

asdkj1740 said:


> thanks for your reply.
> from what i have heard 1.5v for io and sa is still safe so i don't worry much about such level of sa and io.
> i have seen some very good 24/7 stable 4600mhz(~4800?) c17 dual rank samsung b die results on 2 dimm mobos.
> i just wonder what should i expect in general given the average imc, how high is the ceiling of 4 dimm mobos with 6 layers only, so that i wont smash too much voltages for almost nothing.
> i am trying to aim at 4500mhz. now i got 4000c17 stable for 1.35v set for sa and io.
> i left the cache untouched, i was planning to get the ram oc finished before playing with cache. is that so important to real performance gain or would it lower the oc room of ram?


Reason for knowing how high your cache can go on something like 4000c16 is because you will know your highest stable cache, because high frequency/tight timings can make cache go unstable, and sometimes it’s not worth sacrificing 300MHz cache for 100mhz on ram because cache boosts ram latency and bandwidth! Also once you get something stable you just retest with p95, OCCT large data ect after passing tm5, gsat ect. And you don’t have to rerun hrs of memory tests after you set cache. You can pass p95 4-112fft in place for cache and then throw 20 errors in a previous stable tm5 because cache increase.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

YaqY said:


> I don't think its a vdimm error sadly or primary errors, i had these timings pass 3 cycles of TM5 anta extreme the previous day. Seems like something else is the issue, these sticks have posted 4666 before but inconsistently, have also benched 4600C14 through geekbench. Even with auto subtimings it doesn't train consistently sometimes.


I’ve had that issue from time to time and I’ve narrowed it down to tcke, and TWTR the top one in bios being on auto, the other 2 can be on auto or manually set to match TWRRD-dg/dg. I just set the 3 manual, when I test TCKE less than 8 I psu shutdown every time I change it because for some reason I’ve been able to pass tm5 and OCCT memtest and then not be able to post. Only other time I had that issue was when I had TRDRD_sg training on say 7 and actual on 6, if it doesn’t post 6/6 I will just run 7/7 because that cause me lots of cold boot issues like reset or retry button like 3-5 times and inconsistent training stable stable oh hell no not stable insta crash large dataset.


----------



## Placekicker19

YaqY said:


> Usually when you get a restart running tm5 SA/IO is too low, Sometimes this can be a BSOD and restart or just a black screen restart. Usually i will test IMC voltages with a test such as OCCT Large AVX 2 which will spit out errors if SA/IO is too low. Prime 95 With specific FFT Sizes can be utilised aswell.


Yeah it was just a black screen restart. Upping voltages fixed the issue, I just like knowing the culprit of why it happened. After I pass tm5 I'll run prime 112k, it seems to hit the cache and ram quite hard.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Placekicker19 said:


> Yeah it was just a black screen restart. Upping voltages fixed the issue, I just like knowing the culprit of why it happened. After I pass tm5 I'll run prime 112k, it seems to hit the cache and ram quite hard.


I run 112fft in loop for say 1hr and I also run 4-1024fft overnight or all day while at work, you would be surprised some of the bigger fft like 448 will error or crash a thread even though you can pass tm5, and OCCT memtest avx/sse, along with large data. Been my struggle with 4700c16 I can pass everything and then error or crash threads after like 3-6hrs of 4-1024fft. I games on it and sure enough I hard locked in warzone about 3hrs in


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm still trying to get 4400C16 to work but so far I'm getting nowhere.. I'm running 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T, ODT is 80-40-40, 1.48v vDIMM (0.74 vtt), 1.40v SA 1.35v IO, RTL 66/66, IO-L 6/6, Initial 65/65/1/1 offset 22/24 otherwise IO-L will be 2 apart.

It's solid in every imaginable stress test. CPU is at 5.3 all core, 4.9 cache at 1.390v. Also stable in any imaginable test. I did also test the RAM with lower CPU and cache freq just to be sure that the CPU is not the problem (5.0/4.7).

Even just changing only the CL from 17 to 16 and not touching anything else will not even get anywhere close to stable. Just adding voltage doesn't seem to change anything at all.

What would be something to start with now? I tried everything I know including changing every single tertiary and secondary but it doesn't do anything to improve the stability at all. It always errors after like 10-12 minutes in TM5.

DIMM temps sit in the low to mid 40's (c) at 1.48v, at 1.60v they get high 40's to low 50's which probably doesn't help for stability so I kinda prefer to stay below 1.55v vDIMM just so they won't go over ~48c.

Anyone got some tips?


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I'm still trying to get 4400C16 to work but so far I'm getting nowhere.. I'm running 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T, ODT is 80-40-40, 1.48v vDIMM (0.74 vtt), 1.40v SA 1.35v IO, RTL 66/66, IO-L 6/6, Initial 65/65/1/1 offset 22/24 otherwise IO-L will be 2 apart.
> 
> It's solid in every imaginable stress test. CPU is at 5.3 all core, 4.9 cache at 1.390v. Also stable in any imaginable test. I did also test the RAM with lower CPU and cache freq just to be sure that the CPU is not the problem (5.0/4.7).
> 
> Even just changing only the CL from 17 to 16 and not touching anything else will not even get anywhere close to stable. Just adding voltage doesn't seem to change anything at all.
> 
> What would be something to start with now? I tried everything I know including changing every single tertiary and secondary but it doesn't do anything to improve the stability at all. It always errors after like 10-12 minutes in TM5.
> 
> DIMM temps sit in the low to mid 40's (c) at 1.48v, at 1.60v they get high 40's to low 50's which probably doesn't help for stability so I kinda prefer to stay below 1.55v vDIMM just so they won't go over ~48c.
> 
> Anyone got some tips?


Best person to talk to would probably be @OLDFATSHEEP 
Best thing I did to get higher and tighter clocks solid was Vref, ODT skews and rising and falling slopes. All 3 need to be addressed for me to achieve a comfortable 4600-16-17-17-36 with 63 RTLs 
Not sure if they available on your board but OLDFATSHEEP has experience with that BIOS I'm pretty sure and will know your limits


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Imprezzion said:


> I'm still trying to get 4400C16 to work but so far I'm getting nowhere.. I'm running 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T, ODT is 80-40-40, 1.48v vDIMM (0.74 vtt), 1.40v SA 1.35v IO, RTL 66/66, IO-L 6/6, Initial 65/65/1/1 offset 22/24 otherwise IO-L will be 2 apart.
> 
> It's solid in every imaginable stress test. CPU is at 5.3 all core, 4.9 cache at 1.390v. Also stable in any imaginable test. I did also test the RAM with lower CPU and cache freq just to be sure that the CPU is not the problem (5.0/4.7).
> 
> Even just changing only the CL from 17 to 16 and not touching anything else will not even get anywhere close to stable. Just adding voltage doesn't seem to change anything at all.
> 
> What would be something to start with now? I tried everything I know including changing every single tertiary and secondary but it doesn't do anything to improve the stability at all. It always errors after like 10-12 minutes in TM5.
> 
> DIMM temps sit in the low to mid 40's (c) at 1.48v, at 1.60v they get high 40's to low 50's which probably doesn't help for stability so I kinda prefer to stay below 1.55v vDIMM just so they won't go over ~48c.
> 
> Anyone got some tips?


RTL/IOL look a little weird are you on Unify?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

It´s important to look the number befor code 55 come´s, 3E,3F,44,31 and so on.It give some possibility´s to fixe it, if you know that you must fix.
But remember only the correct slope´s will be good in booting and stability, to works in gsat is only one thing.With bad slope´s it´s also possible that he training
the wrong bitline´s sometime´s.


----------



## Imprezzion

MericaShotUrAss said:


> RTL/IOL look a little weird are you on Unify?


Ace actually but yeah, it's MSI.

On 4200 I can get much cleaner RTL/IO without having to resort to weird offsets but 4200 just doesn't perform very well at all and needs a ton of vDIMM to work with tight timings on C16/C15 while 4400C17 is super easy to run with relatively low vDIMM and great secondary / tertiary timings. 

It's just that with only 1.48v vDIMM and very little tweaking it runs 4400C17 so easily that it makes me believe that 4400C16 should be well within reach, it just doesn't wanna work lol.

I can also do 4200C15-17-17-34-280-2T at 1,60v vDIMM, 4533 17-19-19-39-370-2T at 1.52v vDIMM is fine too, there are many many combinations of freq + timings that are stable on these DIMM's, board and CPU but none of them have exceptional performance. It's all just "fine". 4400C16 seems like such a great sweet spot but I just can't seem to hit it.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> It´s important to look the number befor code 55 come´s, 3E,3F,44,31 and so on.It give some possibility´s to fixe it, if you know that you must fix.
> But remember only the correct slope´s will be good in booting and stability, to works in gsat is only one thing.With bad slope´s it´s also possible that he training
> the wrong bitline´s sometime´s.


For 4600C16 I use late command Training, sometimes after the 31 it will run into 55. This is with manual slopes/odt/vref set. I have also seen 2E popup before a 55 postcode aswell.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

31 and 2E is very early, i would test at first with auto slopes, other odt, VDimm/IO/SA or Vref.


----------



## Imprezzion

If TM5 just hard locks (without errors) the PC but doesn't BSOD or reboot, what does that usually mean voltage or timing wise? I saw you guys talking so much about 4600 I decided to just try 4600 as 4533C17 is perfectly stable albeit with very high SA/IO requirements. 

So far I can't get 4600 to do any stress testing as it just doesn't error but hard locks up.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> If TM5 just hard locks (without errors) the PC but doesn't BSOD or reboot, what does that usually mean voltage or timing wise? I saw you guys talking so much about 4600 I decided to just try 4600 as 4533C17 is perfectly stable albeit with very high SA/IO requirements.
> 
> So far I can't get 4600 to do any stress testing as it just doesn't error but hard locks up.


Can be many things really, no one can really guess simply, possibly cache/core unstable or the imc is very unhappy. For 4600 i use DLL 1 not 0 as i did for 4400/4500.


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> Can be many things really, no one can really guess simply, possibly cache/core unstable or the imc is very unhappy. For 4600 i use DLL 1 not 0 as i did for 4400/4500.


I was using DLL 0 on 4400 and 4533 yeah, I am going to try 1 now. It still hard locks after 25 minutes even with much much more IO/SA.. I don't wanna run this high 24/7 but my IMC needs it above 4500.. it requires a minimum of 1.42v SA 1.36v IO for 4533 and 4600 probably much more.. I was running 1.45v SA 1.40v IO and it made the test run a lot longer but it still locked up..

I switched to DLL 1 and ODT from 80-40-40 to 120-60-0 (or however the order for MSI is, I think it's 120-0-60) and at least it booted and properly trained this time so. We'll see how far TM5 gets. Smoke break now 😂

EDIT: Yeah, no. 593 errors in 4 minutes haha. 4600Mhz just ain't happening.

My plan was to find a frequency + timing combination that had good performance read write latency wise but didn't require as much SA/IO as 4400 does but the only thing that kinda works is 4200C16 but that won't do 16-16-16, only 16-17-17 for some reason and needs (a lot) more vDIMM than 4400C17 for some reason so I guess I'm pretty stuck at 4400C17 with 1.40v SA 1.35v IO if I want optimal performance.

It's not like I can't cool it, CPU is direct die water-cooled and barely hits 90c even in Prime95 AVX FMA3 small fft at 5.3Ghz 1.390v but I don't like that high of an SA and IO for daily tbh..


----------



## Placekicker19

MericaShotUrAss said:


> I run 112fft in loop for say 1hr and I also run 4-1024fft overnight or all day while at work, you would be surprised some of the bigger fft like 448 will error or crash a thread even though you can pass tm5, and OCCT memtest avx/sse, along with large data. Been my struggle with 4700c16 I can pass everything and then error or crash threads after like 3-6hrs of 4-1024fft. I games on it and sure enough I hard locked in warzone about 3hrs in


I know warzone pushes the cpu hard. I wonder what causes it to crash after 3+ hours. Do you think it could be temp related? Im sure dimm temps need to be quite low to retain long term stability @ 4700 c16.

What kind of crash is it normally?

Now that I got 4700 c17 stable, i wanna go for 4800 c17. It would probably take close to 1.5 sa and 1.45 io though. My cpu runs very cool because its on direct die, I just don't know how safe that much voltage would be even if temps stay below 70c.

@Imprezzion
1.4io and 1.45sa is safe for daily. Theres so much misguided information regarding whats safe. My friend has pushed 1.45io and 1.52sa on his 8700k without a issue for years. With a 10900k as long as your cpu temps are good 1.4-1.45io and 1.5-1.55sa is perfectly fine. Just look what ram/board manufacturers set sa and io voltages too when they are left on auto and using XMP.


----------



## Placekicker19

Going from 4600 to 4700 resulted in much better gains then when I went from 4500 to 4600. Going from 4500 to 4600 offered no improvement in latency, going from 4600 to 4700 latency went from 34.8 to 34.1ns. Copy also improved 2k. i guess certain frequencies offer better gains than others.


----------



## Hequaqua

Placekicker19 said:


> I know warzone pushes the cpu hard. I wonder what causes it to crash after 3+ hours. Do you think it could be temp related? Im sure dimm temps need to be quite low to retain long term stability @ 4700 c16.
> 
> What kind of crash is it normally?
> 
> Now that I got 4700 c17 stable, i wanna go for 4800 c17. It would probably take close to 1.5 sa and 1.45 io though. My cpu runs very cool because its on direct die, I just don't know how safe that much voltage would be even if temps stay below 70c.
> 
> @Imprezzion
> 1.4io and 1.45sa is safe for daily. Theres so much misguided information regarding whats safe. My friend has pushed 1.45io and 1.52sa on his 8700k without a issue for years. With a 10900k as long as your cpu temps are good 1.4-1.45io and 1.5-1.55sa is perfectly fine. Just look what ram/board manufacturers set sa and io voltages too when they are left on auto and using XMP.



No ****....my Asus board sets a VCCSA of 1.6 when all I touch is XMP. It goes even higher under load. I'm like OBG, ***!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> I'm still trying to get 4400C16 to work but so far I'm getting nowhere.. I'm running 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T, ODT is 80-40-40, 1.48v vDIMM (0.74 vtt), 1.40v SA 1.35v IO, RTL 66/66, IO-L 6/6, Initial 65/65/1/1 offset 22/24 otherwise IO-L will be 2 apart.
> 
> It's solid in every imaginable stress test. CPU is at 5.3 all core, 4.9 cache at 1.390v. Also stable in any imaginable test. I did also test the RAM with lower CPU and cache freq just to be sure that the CPU is not the problem (5.0/4.7).
> 
> Even just changing only the CL from 17 to 16 and not touching anything else will not even get anywhere close to stable. Just adding voltage doesn't seem to change anything at all.
> 
> What would be something to start with now? I tried everything I know including changing every single tertiary and secondary but it doesn't do anything to improve the stability at all. It always errors after like 10-12 minutes in TM5.
> 
> DIMM temps sit in the low to mid 40's (c) at 1.48v, at 1.60v they get high 40's to low 50's which probably doesn't help for stability so I kinda prefer to stay below 1.55v vDIMM just so they won't go over ~48c.
> 
> Anyone got some tips?


To calculate the actual latency in ns, you can use the following equation: CL latency (ns)=tCL/CLK(MHz)*2000

For tCL, it is usually related to voltage. 17/4400*2000=7.73 ns, 16/4400*2000=7.27 ns, around 0.5 ns difference is huge. Besides, if you want to change tCL, per this equation RTL=IOL+IOL OFFSET+2*tCL+lat, RTL would be changed too from 4400C17 to 4400C16.


----------



## Imprezzion

So, based on that calculation 4200C16 is actually better latency wise than 4400C17. (7.62 vs 7.73).

I know my IMC likes 4200 way way better and doesn't need anywhere near as high of a SA and IO for that. More like 1.35v SA 1.25v IO to run that 100% stable at 4.9 cache.

So, I went to work on 4200 and so far I noticed most of the secondary and tertiary timings can be much much tighter on 4200 compared to 4400. And it's by quite a margin lol. For example tRDWR on 4400 has to be 16-16-16-16 with tWRRD 29/24 at a absolute minimum to be stable. On 4200C16 I am now at 12-12-12-12 27/22 and it's still solid for now. I'm 43 minutes into a TM5 Anta Extreme run and no errors yet.

Only 1 thing I find odd and I hope someone can give me some pointers here. It's impossible to run 16-16-16 at all. 16-17-17 is rock solid, on 4400 17-17-17 does fine, but on 4200 I cannot run 16-16-16 at all. It barely even passes POST and if it does it errors really bad. What could I do to "fix" this?

Results + timings and RTL/IO (which is correct according to the formula you posted) below: this is 1.52v vDIMM, 1.35v SA, 1.25v IO, 5.3Ghz all-core 1.390v with 4.9Ghz cache, might be able to go lower. That's next on the list. ODT 80-40-40, vref auto (0.5x), skews auto, DLL 0, PPD fully disabled.










EDIT: New screenshot added with lower tertiaries. Total tested time now is 2h35m. So yeah, it's stable lol. tRDRD, tWRRD and tWRWR cannot go any lower then this. tRDWR maaybe but i'd have to test. And I might try dropping tRFC a bit more as well. 300 is nice but it can probably go lower.


----------



## Tutaz

Hello,
I just mounted a new ram kit = Gskills F4-4000C15Q-32GTRS on Z390 Godlike last bios. With a 9900KF. 
I have some difficulties to make the whole stable @ XMP (my cpu is not heavily overclocked)

I can play without crashes or BSOD. But there are errors that appear on OCCT memory test, especially during a cold boot. Can I do something in the BIOS to improve stability? Temps are safe.
xmp on, vcore 1.3V, LLC 3, ratio x49 uncore x45. I tried Vccsa and vccio 1.2 to auto (1.4v). Nothing seems to work.

Could it come from bad RTT/ODT values in auto?
WR,Nom,Park first channel=80-40-80. Second channel=80-48-40. 

Im listening if you have any tips 
Thanks.


----------



## Imprezzion

99xx and Z390 really hates dual rank 16gb sticks at anything over 3800 so that is going to be difficult to run on XMP lol. Set XMP but drop the frequency to 3800, are the errors gone then?


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> So, based on that calculation 4200C16 is actually better latency wise than 4400C17. (7.62 vs 7.73).
> 
> I know my IMC likes 4200 way way better and doesn't need anywhere near as high of a SA and IO for that. More like 1.35v SA 1.25v IO to run that 100% stable at 4.9 cache.
> 
> So, I went to work on 4200 and so far I noticed most of the secondary and tertiary timings can be much much tighter on 4200 compared to 4400. And it's by quite a margin lol. For example tRDWR on 4400 has to be 16-16-16-16 with tWRRD 29/24 at a absolute minimum to be stable. On 4200C16 I am now at 12-12-12-12 27/22 and it's still solid for now. I'm 43 minutes into a TM5 Anta Extreme run and no errors yet.
> 
> Only 1 thing I find odd and I hope someone can give me some pointers here. It's impossible to run 16-16-16 at all. 16-17-17 is rock solid, on 4400 17-17-17 does fine, but on 4200 I cannot run 16-16-16 at all. It barely even passes POST and if it does it errors really bad. What could I do to "fix" this?
> 
> Results + timings and RTL/IO (which is correct according to the formula you posted) below: this is 1.52v vDIMM, 1.35v SA, 1.25v IO, 5.3Ghz all-core 1.390v with 4.9Ghz cache, might be able to go lower. That's next on the list. ODT 80-40-40, vref auto (0.5x), skews auto, DLL 0, PPD fully disabled.
> 
> View attachment 2479196
> 
> 
> EDIT: New screenshot added with lower tertiaries. Total tested time now is 2h35m. So yeah, it's stable lol. tRDRD, tWRRD and tWRWR cannot go any lower then this. tRDWR maaybe but i'd have to test. And I might try dropping tRFC a bit more as well. 300 is nice but it can probably go lower.


You might be imc limited on TRCD or sometimes the ram too. It is hard to say without testing a dual rank kit that can run 16 TRCD on your cpu. Generally TRCD is looser on Dual Rank compared to single rank due to IMC limitation.


----------



## mouacyk

Imprezzion said:


> 99xx and Z390 really hates dual rank 16gb sticks at anything over 3800 so that is going to be difficult to run on XMP lol. Set XMP but drop the frequency to 3800, are the errors gone then?


This seems to be my experience so far with Gigabyte also. Although tweaking ODT allowed 3733C15 to be stable with 1.5DDR and 1.3SA/IO, but 3800+ is no go. On the EVGA 2-dimm mATX board, I was able to drive it with a 9900K at 3900C15 with 1.45DDR and 1.15SA/IO. Really itching to go back to that board, but Z370 is unlikely to get Resizable BAR support.


----------



## Hequaqua

New set of ram.....first run, haven't touched timings at all yet.

Current settings(under load):
5.0 Vcore 1.270v max (1.275v set in the bios)
4.7 Ring
4.4 Vram
1.45v Vram
1.328v VCCSA(I think I have it set to 1.3v in the bios)
1.28v VCCIO(I think that is set to 1.25v in the bios)

This is a set of Gskill Royal Z 4000cl17 2*8gb. I'm pretty happy so far, only disappointment is no thermal sensor. 










As for VCCSA/VCCIO, I just put some basic values to start off with.


----------



## Tutaz

Imprezzion said:


> 99xx and Z390 really hates dual rank 16gb sticks at anything over 3800 so that is going to be difficult to run on XMP lol. Set XMP but drop the frequency to 3800, are the errors gone then?


its 8Gb sticks only. 
Motherboard is on Gskills QVL, so I had some hope that it would work. It's stable in normal use so I'm not going downclock, it's just the stress tests that are unstable .... So it's a little frustrating to be so close to the goal.


----------



## Imprezzion

Tutaz said:


> its 8Gb sticks only.
> Motherboard is on Gskills QVL, so I had some hope that it would work. It's stable in normal use so I'm not going downclock, it's just the stress tests that are unstable .... So it's a little frustrating to be so close to the goal.


If they are 4x8 then more (or sometimes even less) IO/SA can fix it, and also the ODT and RTL/IO become much more important at that point. It's still quite the load for the IMC but it should be able to handle it. Does it still error when using a lower cache freq? 

I got 280 tRFC tested on my sticks as well, seems to be no problem at all. Shame tRDWR wouldn't even pass POST at 11 but is stable at 12. Nice wall there lol.
I think i'm pretty much at the limit here for basically any timing on this kit. I might be able to get away with 1-2 lower on tWR or tCWL but yeah, the rest is at the bottom pretty much.
I am just going to try to drop vDIMM as low as possible now. 










* I know the DIMM's can handle C15 on these timings (15-17-17-35-280-2T) but I need a boatload of vDIMM to make it work (1.60-1.61v) which makes the DIMM's way too hot when the GPU right under them is loaded. Like 54-56c which isn't great for stability for B-Die so I don't think i'll run that.

AIDA64 scores with all the usual bloatware, game launchers and monitoring such running. Can easily do 35.x when I close everything down and end task explorer.exe  (CPU isn't showing correct clocks, I have Balanced power plan with EIST enabled).


----------



## Tutaz

Imprezzion said:


> If they are 4x8 then more (or sometimes even less) IO/SA can fix it, and also the ODT and RTL/IO become much more important at that point. It's still quite the load for the IMC but it should be able to handle it. Does it still error when using a lower cache freq?
> 
> I got 280 tRFC tested on my sticks as well, seems to be no problem at all. Shame tRDWR wouldn't even pass POST at 11 but is stable at 12. Nice wall there lol.
> I think i'm pretty much at the limit here for basically any timing on this kit. I might be able to get away with 1-2 lower on tWR or tCWL but yeah, the rest is at the bottom pretty much.
> I am just going to try to drop vDIMM as low as possible now.
> 
> View attachment 2479216
> 
> 
> * I know the DIMM's can handle C15 on these timings (15-17-17-35-280-2T) but I need a boatload of vDIMM to make it work (1.60-1.61v) which makes the DIMM's way too hot when the GPU right under them is loaded. Like 54-56c which isn't great for stability for B-Die so I don't think i'll run that.
> 
> AIDA64 scores with all the usual bloatware, game launchers and monitoring such running. Can easily do 35.x when I close everything down and end task explorer.exe  (CPU isn't showing correct clocks, I have Balanced power plan with EIST enabled).
> View attachment 2479217


uncore ratio x43 doesnt change anything. You said it would take more than 1.4v in vccsa, 1.35v vccio? This is the auto value, I didnt increase them yet. For info, the two different values for chanA and chanB ODT are normal and common? I have tried to tweak the RTL with RTL optimized enabled on/off, failed the stress test too.


----------



## Imprezzion

Tutaz said:


> uncore ratio x43 doesnt change anything. You said it would take more than 1.4v in vccsa, 1.35v vccio? This is the auto value, I didnt increase them yet. For info, the two different values for chanA and chanB ODT are normal and common? I have tried to tweak the RTL with RTL optimized enabled on/off, failed the stress test too.


Normally it shouldn't take more then that however I would try it out, 1.45v SA 1.40v IO just short-term to see if it helps. It won't hurt anything short-term. For ODT both channels can be different yes. You could try to play with those a bit. I used 120-60-0 on mine (MSI board, the order is different on other brands). 

What could also be a good thing to test, try it with just 2 out of the 4 modules installed. If they run XMP fine, test the other 2 as well, if that also runs fine but all 4 don't then you're clearly limited by the IMC / board and we have to find a way to get around it by either loosening some stuff timing wise or just brute forcing it with voltage (if that does enough to fix it).


----------



## Tutaz

Imprezzion said:


> Normally it shouldn't take more then that however I would try it out, 1.45v SA 1.40v IO just short-term to see if it helps. It won't hurt anything short-term. For ODT both channels can be different yes. You could try to play with those a bit. I used 120-60-0 on mine (MSI board, the order is different on other brands).
> 
> What could also be a good thing to test, try it with just 2 out of the 4 modules installed. If they run XMP fine, test the other 2 as well, if that also runs fine but all 4 don't then you're clearly limited by the IMC / board and we have to find a way to get around it by either loosening some stuff timing wise or just brute forcing it with voltage (if that does enough to fix it).


Okay,
I just set the ODT at 80-40-40 locked for all channel as I saw in some previous posts. Even if mine are not DR BDie, only SR. It just passed 20mn of test, occt ram and occt cpu AVX2.... so its good start for the moment, until the next cold boot we will see.

After that I will test 120-60-0. And if fail again, I will test if it's IMC limits with only 2 dimms.


----------



## munternet

Tutaz said:


> Okay,
> I just set the ODT at 80-40-40 locked for all channel as I saw in some previous posts. Even if mine are not DR BDie, only SR. It just passed 20mn of test, occt ram and occt cpu AVX2.... so its good start for the moment, until the next cold boot we will see.
> 
> After that I will test 120-60-0. And if fail again, I will test if it's IMC limits with only 2 dimms.


You really need to test to see what is best for you
There is a link in my sig showing how I tested and set mine but the main testing tool seems to be GSAT which also has a link in my sig for setting up


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> If they are 4x8 then more (or sometimes even less) IO/SA can fix it, and also the ODT and RTL/IO become much more important at that point. It's still quite the load for the IMC but it should be able to handle it. Does it still error when using a lower cache freq?
> 
> I got 280 tRFC tested on my sticks as well, seems to be no problem at all. Shame tRDWR wouldn't even pass POST at 11 but is stable at 12. Nice wall there lol.
> I think i'm pretty much at the limit here for basically any timing on this kit. I might be able to get away with 1-2 lower on tWR or tCWL but yeah, the rest is at the bottom pretty much.
> I am just going to try to drop vDIMM as low as possible now.
> 
> View attachment 2479216
> 
> 
> * I know the DIMM's can handle C15 on these timings (15-17-17-35-280-2T) but I need a boatload of vDIMM to make it work (1.60-1.61v) which makes the DIMM's way too hot when the GPU right under them is loaded. Like 54-56c which isn't great for stability for B-Die so I don't think i'll run that.
> 
> AIDA64 scores with all the usual bloatware, game launchers and monitoring such running. Can easily do 35.x when I close everything down and end task explorer.exe  (CPU isn't showing correct clocks, I have Balanced power plan with EIST enabled).
> View attachment 2479217


Set tCWL to 16 and you should be able to lower your tRDWR to 10. And, if you try to set tRDRD_dr to 6 I think it should be much easier to train.


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Set tCWL to 16 and you should be able to lower your tRDWR to 10. And, if you try to set tRDRD_dr to 6 I think it should be much easier to train.


Haven't tried that, going to do that saturday probably. I was running a new test during dinner with 1.500v vDIMM and 5Ghz cache in stead of 4.9Ghz cache. Seems fine..


----------



## Hequaqua

OK....first let me say, I have no idea what I'm really doing on Intel memory oc'ing. I did look at the guide on GitHub, but still feel a bit lost.

Here is where I'm at:










I tried CL16, opened up a can of whoopass on me. lol

Changed it back and went 17-17-17-34. I adjusted tRFC down to 500, passed a quick 3 run of TM5(1Usmus config) and about 1 hour of OCCT mem test using 95%.

I've adjusted the tRFC down to 374, but haven't tested it yet. I left the two other tRFC on Auto.

What should my next move be?

I don't really want to throw more voltage at it, just maybe tighten timings down a bit.

I'm at 1.45v on Vram, 1.2v on VCCIO, and 1.3v(down from 1.32v) on VCCSA. Even those these sticks don't have a thermal sensor, I'm not too worried about heat being a issue since I have a 80mm fan feeding them cooler air.


----------



## munternet

Hequaqua said:


> OK....first let me say, I have no idea what I'm really doing on Intel memory oc'ing. I did look at the guide on GitHub, but still feel a bit lost.
> 
> Here is where I'm at:
> 
> View attachment 2479303
> 
> 
> I tried CL16, opened up a can of whoopass on me. lol
> 
> Changed it back and went 17-17-17-34. I adjusted tRFC down to 500, passed a quick 3 run of TM5(1Usmus config) and about 1 hour of OCCT mem test using 95%.
> 
> I've adjusted the tRFC down to 374, but haven't tested it yet. I left the two other tRFC on Auto.
> 
> What should my next move be?
> 
> I don't really want to throw more voltage at it, just maybe tighten timings down a bit.
> 
> I'm at 1.45v on Vram, 1.2v on VCCIO, and 1.3v(down from 1.32v) on VCCSA. Even those these sticks don't have a thermal sensor, I'm not too worried about heat being a issue since I have a 80mm fan feeding them cooler air.


Addressing vref, skews and slopes will give you a much wider stability zone 
You will need to use GSAT if you want to go down this path and you will need some free time


----------



## Imprezzion

Hequaqua said:


> OK....first let me say, I have no idea what I'm really doing on Intel memory oc'ing. I did look at the guide on GitHub, but still feel a bit lost.
> 
> Here is where I'm at:
> 
> View attachment 2479303
> 
> 
> I tried CL16, opened up a can of whoopass on me. lol
> 
> Changed it back and went 17-17-17-34. I adjusted tRFC down to 500, passed a quick 3 run of TM5(1Usmus config) and about 1 hour of OCCT mem test using 95%.
> 
> I've adjusted the tRFC down to 374, but haven't tested it yet. I left the two other tRFC on Auto.
> 
> What should my next move be?
> 
> I don't really want to throw more voltage at it, just maybe tighten timings down a bit.
> 
> I'm at 1.45v on Vram, 1.2v on VCCIO, and 1.3v(down from 1.32v) on VCCSA. Even those these sticks don't have a thermal sensor, I'm not too worried about heat being a issue since I have a 80mm fan feeding them cooler air.


tWR down by at least 9 or 10, 25 is super high so go for like 14 or 16, RTL / IO is through the roof high and should be more like 67/67/7/7, tRRD_L 6 + tRRD_s 4 + tFAW 16, tWRRD_sg and _dg way way down to like 29/24 or 28/23 or something like that to get tWTR down (they control each other so dropping tWRRD will drop tWTR too when on Auto, "ideal" values would be 7 and 2 for _l and _s respectively).

You got some work to do my man hehe .

Also, which mode are you running and what's your ODT (wr, nom, park) values at right now? PPD disabled or enabled? Training / MRC fastboot enabled or disabled?


----------



## Hequaqua

munternet said:


> Addressing vref, skews and slopes will give you a much wider stability zone
> You will need to use GSAT if you want to go down this path and you will need some free time





Imprezzion said:


> tWR down by at least 9 or 10, 25 is super high so go for like 14 or 16, RTL / IO is through the roof high and should be more like 67/67/7/7, tRRD_L 6 + tRRD_s 4 + tFAW 16, tWRRD_sg and _dg way way down to like 29/24 or 28/23 or something like that to get tWTR down (they control each other so dropping tWRRD will drop tWTR too when on Auto, "ideal" values would be 7 and 2 for _l and _s respectively).
> 
> You got some work to do my man hehe .
> 
> Also, which mode are you running and what's your ODT (wr, nom, park) values at right now? PPD disabled or enabled? Training / MRC fastboot enabled or disabled?


Will work on it....lot of info there for a old man...lol 

ODT's are set to Auto atm. PPD? Training/MRC are all on Auto afaik. Very noobish on the Intel side, been on AMD since Zen launched....lol


----------



## YaqY

Hequaqua said:


> Will work on it....lot of info there for a old man...lol
> 
> ODT's are set to Auto atm. PPD? Training/MRC are all on Auto afaik. Very noobish on the Intel side, been on AMD since Zen launched....lol


The github link has pretty much all the basic info you need, on bdie id start with making sure the main timings are stable first, then when that is done just work on a few subtimings at once and test, the guide has some recommendations for tight/extreme subtimings which bdie will usually do. Have a look at others setups here for some ideas too.


----------



## gibolol

Very long time lurker (the account says 2017 but since site was created), best I can do with 1.515v/4 sticks bdie on the M12F. Just cannot get anything stable past 4133 after hundreds of hours of tweaking. Please mention anything you think is off or should be changed.

F4-4133C17Q32 kit, used for a few years.
PPD 0
TXP 4
SA/IO 1.2 (trained 1.35/1.46)
Fastboot Enabled when input manual IOL
MHC Fullcheck Enabled
CPUScore: 99
VTT: 0.75
DRAM: 1.515v
LLC:6
Cache 50
CPU53 Sync All
CPU V: 1.4










I revert to 52/49 cpu/cache 4000Mhz DRAM with same timings (IOL 58/58/59/59 7/7/7/7) when not gaming.

I will rerun stress tests and take a screens later.

*Help:*
When I put all 4 sticks of the current kit in it 55's unless I boot 1 stick after a bios flash, configure timings and insert 1 stick at a time. CPU pins good, pressure on CPU block and mobo monoblock not too tight, reseated plenty of times.

I have three other kits 2x F4-3200C14D-32 and F4-4500C19D-16 that will not post no matter what, tested all the bios's, replaced battery etc. Just 55's. Before I RMA these kits any tips to get them to post? Have got them working on other mobos M11Apex, M11Formula (sometimes), M10Apex but they hate the M12 formula.

Cheers.


----------



## YaqY

gibolol said:


> Very long time lurker (the account says 2017 but since site was created), best I can do with 1.515v/4 sticks bdie on the M12F. Just cannot get anything stable past 4133 after hundreds of hours of tweaking. Please mention anything you think is off or should be changed.
> 
> F4-4133C17Q32 kit, used for a few years.
> PPD 0
> TXP 4
> SA/IO 1.2 (trained 1.35/1.46)
> Fastboot Enabled when input manual IOL
> MHC Fullcheck Enabled
> CPUScore: 99
> VTT: 0.75
> DRAM: 1.515v
> LLC:6
> Cache 50
> CPU53 Sync All
> CPU V: 1.4
> 
> View attachment 2479342
> 
> 
> I revert to 52/49 cpu/cache 4000Mhz DRAM with same timings (IOL 58/58/59/59 7/7/7/7) when not gaming.
> 
> I will rerun stress tests and take a screens later.
> 
> *Help:*
> When I put all 4 sticks of the current kit in it 55's unless I boot 1 stick after a bios flash, configure timings and insert 1 stick at a time. CPU pins good, pressure on CPU block and mobo monoblock not too tight, reseated plenty of times.
> 
> I have three other kits 2x F4-3200C14D-32 and F4-4500C19D-16 that will not post no matter what, tested all the bios's, replaced battery etc. Just 55's. Before I RMA these kits any tips to get them to post? Have got them working on other mobos M11Apex, M11Formula (sometimes), M10Apex but they hate the M12 formula.
> 
> Cheers.


Order of the sticks matters a lot with 4x8 bdie. Might have to swap them around and see if it helps. Have a look at tuning ODT's aswell when pushing frequency, has a huge affect on booting/stability.


----------



## gibolol

YaqY said:


> Order of the sticks matters a lot with 4x8 bdie. Might have to swap them around and see if it helps. Have a look at tuning ODT's aswell when pushing frequency, has a huge affect on booting/stability.


Yeah its only the initial posting after a bios update, once thats done I have no issues unless I pull the battery. I really want to get these other sticks working, grass looks greener on this mobo with dual rank bdie. The other sticks I have are a few years old and may have been thrashed (24/7 1.5v for years) so I am hoping someone will come along with a protip to get them posting on the formula. I will go back to the Apex next time around, the frequency wall on 4 sticks is pretty bad on the formula. I remember the old M9Apex, just put any bdie in, raja's profile for 4133 C1, then up the freq to 4400 and off you go, was always stable. But since I need 32Gb now....


----------



## YaqY

gibolol said:


> Yeah its only the initial posting after a bios update, once thats done I have no issues unless I pull the battery. I really want to get these other sticks working, grass looks greener on this mobo with dual rank bdie. The other sticks I have are a few years old and may have been thrashed (24/7 1.5v for years) so I am hoping someone will come along with a protip to get them posting on the formula. I will go back to the Apex next time around, the frequency wall on 4 sticks is pretty bad on the formula. I remember the old M9Apex, just put any bdie in, raja's profile for 4133 C1, then up the freq to 4500 and off you go, was always stable. But since I need 32Gb now....


A nice set of 2x16 BDIE should perform better on that board. The 3200C14 2x16 Bin is quite consistent. A lot of us here have gone into tuning ODT's with these dual rank sticks on Z490 which allows frequencies to be pushed to 4400+ for daily.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

gibolol said:


> Very long time lurker (the account says 2017 but since site was created), best I can do with 1.515v/4 sticks bdie on the M12F. Just cannot get anything stable past 4133 after hundreds of hours of tweaking. Please mention anything you think is off or should be changed.
> 
> F4-4133C17Q32 kit, used for a few years.
> PPD 0
> TXP 4
> SA/IO 1.2 (trained 1.35/1.46)
> Fastboot Enabled when input manual IOL
> MHC Fullcheck Enabled
> CPUScore: 99
> VTT: 0.75
> DRAM: 1.515v
> LLC:6
> Cache 50
> CPU53 Sync All
> CPU V: 1.4
> 
> View attachment 2479342
> 
> 
> I revert to 52/49 cpu/cache 4000Mhz DRAM with same timings (IOL 58/58/59/59 7/7/7/7) when not gaming.
> 
> I will rerun stress tests and take a screens later.
> 
> *Help:*
> When I put all 4 sticks of the current kit in it 55's unless I boot 1 stick after a bios flash, configure timings and insert 1 stick at a time. CPU pins good, pressure on CPU block and mobo monoblock not too tight, reseated plenty of times.
> 
> I have three other kits 2x F4-3200C14D-32 and F4-4500C19D-16 that will not post no matter what, tested all the bios's, replaced battery etc. Just 55's. Before I RMA these kits any tips to get them to post? Have got them working on other mobos M11Apex, M11Formula (sometimes), M10Apex but they hate the M12 formula.
> 
> Cheers.


1. You might need to tweak the ODT. 4-Dimm ODT is quite different from 2-Dimm ODT.

2. Bin every stick in the same slot, rank them from best (1) to worst (4), then inset them by (A1:1, A2:3, B1:2, B2:4)

3. Set tWRRD_dd to 6 or 7 should help a lot.


----------



## gibolol

Yeah right, ill gjve it a go. Note that sometimes none of the dual rank sticks post in any slot (single stick), I have been lucky to get a single stick to post on rare occasions but it will 55 when moved or another is added. It also does not seem consistant which sticks will work as I have seen it reject and accept all of them depending on bios and other factors I am not aware of. I am not too concerned with the 4 sticks of single rank bdie posting as I am used to getting them to post, its the 2 x 16gb dual rank kits I have yet to have any success posting with both dimms installed. I normally get frustrated, crank the dram voltage/vtt/io/sa up and hope to burn them into posting


----------



## Beagle Box

Guys...

What is this Guide on Github that is being referenced? 
Link?

Thx


----------



## Imprezzion

Beagle Box said:


> Guys...
> 
> What is this Guide on Github that is being referenced?
> Link?
> 
> Thx











integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





Massive thanks to integralfx for both memtesthelper for HCI and this guide.


----------



## Hequaqua

Noob reporting back in......lol

Did some tuning last night and started some testing this morning. I ran the 1Usmus TM5 config for 3 passes...no issue. Then I started Karhu, using 14228mb of ram. Their guide says 6400% is about 99.41 coverage. I normally run it for at least 2hrs. It made it to around 6500% and errored. So back to the drawing board. I rebooted and ran the 1Usmus again, errored on the first pass on test #7, which is either ODT or tRFC too low. I had lowered it from 700 to 374, than again to 350 last night. So I put it at 360 and reran 1Usmus, 3 passes, no errors. I started Karhu again and no errors after 2hrs, over 9000%.

Here is a screenshot for Karhu, current timings on the left, I believe just XMP timings on the right. Same amount of ram over the same time frame.



Spoiler: Karhu















Here are my current timings:


Spoiler: Timings















I have not touched RTL / IO, or ODT settings yet. PPD is on Auto, so I'm not sure if that is enabled or disable(or if it was asking for a value). Training / MRC are also set to the defaults.

As for GSAT, I installed Ubuntu 20.04 LTS and updated it and installed the stressapptest(I'm not sure where I got it, but the filename is stressapptest-master). I configured it using the following commands:
stressapptest -W -s 3600

It will start and run, but once it gets to the pause for power spike it will stop reporting anything. It appears the test is still running. Cores are loaded and memory is still in use. I'm not sure about that. I did reconfigure it using this command:
stressapptest -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 10000

No problems there:


Spoiler: GSAT















So, guess I need to run Anata1 Extreme and go from there. If anyone has some things that might need to be changed in the main timings let me know. I think I will work on getting those stable before moving on the ODT/Skew/ets. Also, any ideas on the stressapptest issue. I can't seem to find much on how to correct it. Might be Ubuntu(although I've used it in the past with the app).

Thanks for getting me to where I'm at. I think I'm on the right track.... 

EDIT(Update): Passed Extreme Anta.....test time looks a bit off to me. Anyone else?



Spoiler: Anta Extreme


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Hequaqua said:


> Noob reporting back in......lol
> 
> Did some tuning last night and started some testing this morning. I ran the 1Usmus TM5 config for 3 passes...no issue. Then I started Karhu, using 14228mb of ram. Their guide says 6400% is about 99.41 coverage. I normally run it for at least 2hrs. It made it to around 6500% and errored. So back to the drawing board. I rebooted and ran the 1Usmus again, errored on the first pass on test #7, which is either ODT or tRFC too low. I had lowered it from 700 to 374, than again to 350 last night. So I put it at 360 and reran 1Usmus, 3 passes, no errors. I started Karhu again and no errors after 2hrs, over 9000%.
> 
> Here is a screenshot for Karhu, current timings on the left, I believe just XMP timings on the right. Same amount of ram over the same time frame.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Karhu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2479414
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my current timings:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Timings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2479411
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not touched RTL / IO, or ODT settings yet. PPD is on Auto, so I'm not sure if that is enabled or disable(or if it was asking for a value). Training / MRC are also set to the defaults.
> 
> As for GSAT, I installed Ubuntu 20.04 LTS and updated it and installed the stressapptest(I'm not sure where I got it, but the filename is stressapptest-master). I configured it using the following commands:
> stressapptest -W -s 3600
> 
> It will start and run, but once it gets to the pause for power spike it will stop reporting anything. It appears the test is still running. Cores are loaded and memory is still in use. I'm not sure about that. I did reconfigure it using this command:
> stressapptest -W -s 3600 --pause_delay 10000
> 
> No problems there:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: GSAT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2479413
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, guess I need to run Anata1 Extreme and go from there. If anyone has some things that might need to be changed in the main timings let me know. I think I will work on getting those stable before moving on the ODT/Skew/ets. Also, any ideas on the stressapptest issue. I can't seem to find much on how to correct it. Might be Ubuntu(although I've used it in the past with the app).
> 
> Thanks for getting me to where I'm at. I think I'm on the right track....
> 
> EDIT(Update): Passed Extreme Anta.....test time looks a bit off to me. Anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Anta Extreme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2479423


Work on this and turn on round trip latency and see if it trains correct RTL/IOL 
Trdrd_sg-6
Twrwr_sg-6
Twrrd_sg/DG-10
Work TWR down should do 10-12 
Trtp-6
And increase trefi to 46k-65535

Single rank on z490 with good sticks is really easy tbh all it takes is a good set bdie and decent IMC and 4400c17 should do this no problem


----------



## Hequaqua

I've tried to change Trdrd_sg to 6 but it shows in the bios as 6 but Asrock Timing shows as 7. tWR is acting the same....I've put in 12 it shows 13, I put in 10 it shows 11. lol
Twrrd_sg/dg will not boot at 10...won't boot at 21, 18, or any others I tried. Same goes for tRTP. 
I have tREFI at 46000, no problem booting. 

Some changes that I made as well...after trying some of those:
PPD to 0
tXP? not sure of the label in the bios....but have it at 4

I did up the VCCSA(not a lot 1.3 to 1.32v) to try some of those settings you gave me, still no go on the ones listed. I did get RTL training on though.

Looks good to me, just need to check for stability before moving forward.










Appreciate the help


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Hequaqua said:


> I've tried to change Trdrd_sg to 6 but it shows in the bios as 6 but Asrock Timing shows as 7. tWR is acting the same....I've put in 12 it shows 13, I put in 10 it shows 11. lol
> Twrrd_sg/dg will not boot at 10...won't boot at 21, 18, or any others I tried. Same goes for tRTP.
> I have tREFI at 46000, no problem booting.
> 
> Some changes that I made as well...after trying some of those:
> PPD to 0
> tXP? not sure of the label in the bios....but have it at 4
> 
> I did up the VCCSA(not a lot 1.3 to 1.32v) to try some of those settings you gave me, still no go on the ones listed. I did get RTL training on though.
> 
> Looks good to me, just need to check for stability before moving forward.
> 
> View attachment 2479428
> 
> 
> Appreciate the help


Try bumping tcwl up to 16, sounds like your board is giving you grief over odd # tcwl. 
Lots of board on Intel don’t like odd tcwl


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

will update soon but 30 in on stress testing, 9 psu full shut downs, 2 p95 80-256 sessions for 3hrs each, 3 OCCT memtest, 3x5 cycles of tm5 extreme. Things are looking brighter.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Hequaqua said:


> EDIT(Update): Passed Extreme Anta.....test time looks a bit off to me. Anyone else?


That's the expected test time for 3 cycles of Anta's extreme profile for 16GB of total RAM.
With 32GB it's close to 3 hours for 3 cycles.


----------



## Hequaqua

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Try bumping tcwl up to 16, sounds like your board is giving you grief over odd # tcwl.
> Lots of board on Intel don’t like odd tcwl


Bumped to 16, Timing config stills shows 7...Oh well....say's 6 in the bios. 



SunnyStefan said:


> That's the expected test time for 3 cycles of Anta's extreme profile for 16GB of total RAM.
> With 32GB it's close to 3 hours for 3 cycles.


Yea, it's been a while since I ran it with 16gb of ram....lol

Here's my 32gb set....lol


----------



## itssladenlol

MericaShotUrAss said:


> will update soon but 30 in on stress testing, 9 psu full shut downs, 2 p95 80-256 sessions for 3hrs each, 3 OCCT memtest, 3x5 cycles of tm5 extreme. Things are looking brighter.


Voltages?


----------



## Imprezzion

Looking good! Strong results you got there. I am happy myself I "downgraded" to 4200C16 cause it takes much much less voltage and thus heat to be stable so I can maintain this in the hot summer months and it allowed my cache to go to 5Ghz from 4.9Ghz which actually means a better latency compared to 4400C17 with way looser tertiary and less cache.


----------



## Gen.

Good


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

itssladenlol said:


> Voltages?


1.65vdimm .825vtt 1.35vIO 1.37vSA .490vRef and I bumped vcore up a little will drop it back down 10mv steps and test to make sure it stays stable and repeatable. Have almost 40hrs of stress tests and about 30 full psu shutdown with 1 bad training, I also run lower training voltages of 1.25vIo and 1.275vSA and 1.6vdimm.


----------



## munternet

MericaShotUrAss said:


> 1.65vdimm .825vtt 1.35vIO 1.37vSA .490vRef and I bumped vcore up a little will drop it back down 10mv steps and test to make sure it stays stable and repeatable. Have almost 40hrs of stress tests and about 30 full psu shutdown with 1 bad training, I also run lower training voltages of 1.25vIo and 1.275vSA and 1.6vdimm.


You must have a nice IMC to do vccio and sa that low 
I can't even do that at 4600c16
Tried changing slopes and skews etc but no dice


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

munternet said:


> You must have a nice IMC to do vccio and sa that low
> I can't even do that at 4600c16
> Tried changing slopes and skews etc but no dice


I have a very strong chip with a hulk IMC


----------



## Imprezzion

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Set tCWL to 16 and you should be able to lower your tRDWR to 10. And, if you try to set tRDRD_dr to 6 I think it should be much easier to train.


tCWL 16 on it's own is fine but 10 or 11 tRDWR under any circumstance does not POST at all.

From my own testing I also found that tCKE and tRTP cannot go under 8 or it will memory overclock failed POST.

I did manage to get tRDRD_dr to boot 6 so testing that now with TM5 Anta Extreme.

Do you guys think it's worth the extra voltage (and heat) to go for 4200-15-17-17-34-280-2T over 16-17-17-35? I need 1.60v vDIMM to do C15 while C16 only needs 1.49v ish. The DIMM's will get well over 53c on 1.60v if the GPU is also in use which is very close to the RAM. It isn't bad for the DIMM's but B-Die hates temp and might become unstable?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Imprezzion said:


> tCWL 16 on it's own is fine but 10 or 11 tRDWR under any circumstance does not POST at all.
> 
> From my own testing I also found that tCKE and tRTP cannot go under 8 or it will memory overclock failed POST.
> 
> I did manage to get tRDRD_dr to boot 6 so testing that now with TM5 Anta Extreme.
> 
> Do you guys think it's worth the extra voltage (and heat) to go for 4200-15-17-17-34-280-2T over 16-17-17-35? I need 1.60v vDIMM to do C15 while C16 only needs 1.49v ish. The DIMM's will get well over 53c on 1.60v if the GPU is also in use which is very close to the RAM. It isn't bad for the DIMM's but B-Die hates temp and might become unstable?


Definitely not worth the 20 points in geek bench and to risk stability over time. One reason 4800c16 isn’t going to happen on this kit, will take approximately 1.69vdimm or more to make it worth running with a decent performance improvement. I going based off what it took to post solid timings with minimal testing. Don’t even know if it would stabilize at all


----------



## 7empe

Hey, I've been working for a quite long time on my OC of 4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 CL19 combined with 10900KF and M12E mobo. My IMC is limiting me with getting into high frequency range with 4 sticks and sticks itself are just an ordinary b-dies. This is what I could achieve:

2x8GB

4600 MHz 17-17-17-35-2T
4x8GB

4200 MHz 16-16-16-34-2T (few errors per 5000% of mem coverage that I cannot mitigate...)
4133 MHz 16-16-16-34-2T
*4000 MHz 15-15-15-32-2T*
3900 MHz 15-15-15-32-1T (possible only with enabling the trace centering)
This is the close look at 4000 MHz CL15 configuration:










Cheers!


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> tCWL 16 on it's own is fine but 10 or 11 tRDWR under any circumstance does not POST at all.
> 
> From my own testing I also found that tCKE and tRTP cannot go under 8 or it will memory overclock failed POST.
> 
> I did manage to get tRDRD_dr to boot 6 so testing that now with TM5 Anta Extreme.
> 
> Do you guys think it's worth the extra voltage (and heat) to go for 4200-15-17-17-34-280-2T over 16-17-17-35? I need 1.60v vDIMM to do C15 while C16 only needs 1.49v ish. The DIMM's will get well over 53c on 1.60v if the GPU is also in use which is very close to the RAM. It isn't bad for the DIMM's but B-Die hates temp and might become unstable?


Try setting the tertiary timing section to fixed mode on msi and see if it helps posting lower tertiaries.


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> Try setting the tertiary timing section to fixed mode on msi and see if it helps posting lower tertiaries.


I always run Fixed on both tertiary and RTL/IO 
I can POST 11's, not 10's now with a bit more voltage but it's an erroring mess.

These DIMM's always hated tRDWR. At 4400C17 it doesn't go under 15's. On 4533C17 it even needs to be above 16 to stand a chance of being stable.

So yeah, dailed in now at 3 completely different overclocks for the RAM and now I can't choose which to daily lol..

4200 16-17-17-35-280-2T 1.50v /1.35v SA 1.25v IO.
4400 17-17-17-36-330-2T 1.48v /1.40v SA 1.35v IO.
4533 17-19-19-39-350-2T 1.52v / 1.43v SA 1.38v IO.

Due to having way higher secondary and tertiary timings the latency at 4200C16 is about 1ns better then both other overclocks but bandwidth is down by like a good 6GB/s aka. 10% so yeah.. which one.

Or, judging by these results, any other combinations of primary timings + frequency I can try to get stable? Super bored anyway working from home lol.

The IMC is not going to do 4600 anyway so yeah, don't get me started. Lol. I mean, highest I can boot with some resemblance of stability is 4700 17-19-19-45-500-2T 1.68v /1.55v SA 1.45v IO but no matter what I do with ODT, VRef, Skews, it just won't stabilize without going way overboard on the IO/SA voltages.


----------



## Gregix

I started to think, that Z370 Taichi was so far best MB I have had.
4400c19 patriots 2*8Gb- 4400c19, 4100c15, 3800c14. 4400c19 was tricky, so just for sport was done.
3200c14 g.skill 2*16Gb - 3800c14 full stable. (Max mhz for this mems/mb/imc combo)
3200c14 TG 4*8Gb - 3800c15 full stable.
Z390 auros pro - no love for anything more than 3600c15 with g.skill, 3800c15-4100c16 with TG. I returned it, as no way to set properly IOLs/RTLs, resulting low scores.

Now, Z390 Gaming Edge, have it like 2 days, have hard time to stabilize it with g.skill at 3800/3866c15. CPU is the same.
But settings cannot be copied between motherboards. Tried 4*8 TG at start, but gave up, maybe will return to them.
My old settings from z370 Taichi for g.skill just errors Ollie in first 20secs, if lucky after 4-7 mins. It sucks.

BTW what was proper dual rank memory's WR/NOM/etc values for MSI?
OK, found it, 80/34/120 wr/nom/park. Seems to work, 8th min ollie 3800c14 running smooth so far.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Imprezzion said:


> I always run Fixed on both tertiary and RTL/IO
> I can POST 11's, not 10's now with a bit more voltage but it's an erroring mess.
> 
> These DIMM's always hated tRDWR. At 4400C17 it doesn't go under 15's. On 4533C17 it even needs to be above 16 to stand a chance of being stable.
> 
> So yeah, dailed in now at 3 completely different overclocks for the RAM and now I can't choose which to daily lol..
> 
> 4200 16-17-17-35-280-2T 1.50v /1.35v SA 1.25v IO.
> 4400 17-17-17-36-330-2T 1.48v /1.40v SA 1.35v IO.
> 4533 17-19-19-39-350-2T 1.52v / 1.43v SA 1.38v IO.
> 
> Due to having way higher secondary and tertiary timings the latency at 4200C16 is about 1ns better then both other overclocks but bandwidth is down by like a good 6GB/s aka. 10% so yeah.. which one.
> 
> Or, judging by these results, any other combinations of primary timings + frequency I can try to get stable? Super bored anyway working from home lol.
> 
> The IMC is not going to do 4600 anyway so yeah, don't get me started. Lol. I mean, highest I can boot with some resemblance of stability is 4700 17-19-19-45-500-2T 1.68v /1.55v SA 1.45v IO but no matter what I do with ODT, VRef, Skews, it just won't stabilize without going way overboard on the IO/SA voltages.


I would run geekbench and see how significant the difference is because bandwidth is a lot more noticeable than 1ns of latency in games, if you play warzone game is memory bandwidth limited at low resolution, haven’t tested 1440p in a while but couple people I know said they seen improvements as well in 1440p one with a 3090. Your 4400 profile I have a feeling will turn out to give best results in geek and Aida, and Aida latency test is synthetic AF dependent on so many things, like windows build, services running, ect I mean it can be raining out and you gain 1ns 😂😭🤣 and 1.45SA is nothing to worry about on these chips. And there’s tricks to getting certain timings to drop takes a lot of work but may be stick/mobo not happy.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Imprezzion said:


> tCWL 16 on it's own is fine but 10 or 11 tRDWR under any circumstance does not POST at all.
> 
> From my own testing I also found that tCKE and tRTP cannot go under 8 or it will memory overclock failed POST.
> 
> I did manage to get tRDRD_dr to boot 6 so testing that now with TM5 Anta Extreme.
> 
> Do you guys think it's worth the extra voltage (and heat) to go for 4200-15-17-17-34-280-2T over 16-17-17-35? I need 1.60v vDIMM to do C15 while C16 only needs 1.49v ish. The DIMM's will get well over 53c on 1.60v if the GPU is also in use which is very close to the RAM. It isn't bad for the DIMM's but B-Die hates temp and might become unstable?


I would just stick to 1.49v in this case.


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> Hey, I've been working for a quite long time on my OC of 4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 CL19 combined with 10900KF and M12E mobo. My IMC is limiting me with getting into high frequency range with 4 sticks and sticks itself are just an ordinary b-dies. This is what I could achieve:
> 
> 2x8GB
> 
> 4600 MHz 17-17-17-35-2T
> 4x8GB
> 
> 4200 MHz 16-16-16-34-2T (few errors per 5000% of mem coverage that I cannot mitigate...)
> 4133 MHz 16-16-16-34-2T
> *4000 MHz 15-15-15-32-2T*
> 3900 MHz 15-15-15-32-1T (possible only with enabling the trace centering)
> This is the close look at 4000 MHz CL15 configuration:
> 
> View attachment 2479627
> 
> 
> Cheers!


It may not be your IMC limiting you
You are running 4 sticks on a daisychain board which is not ideal although that is a reasonable overclock  
Considering your substantial investment in the board and CPU you might consider 2x16GB dual rank B-dies?
Either way, have you addressed Vref, ODT skews and slopes? These will increase the width of stability and maximize your potential if you haven't already


----------



## 7empe

munternet said:


> It may not be your IMC limiting you
> You are running 4 sticks on a daisychain board which is not ideal although that is a reasonable overclock
> Considering your substantial investment in the board and CPU you might consider 2x16GB dual rank B-dies?
> Either way, have you addressed Vref, ODT skews and slopes? These will increase the width of stability and maximize your potential if you haven't already


Hey, yeah it is daisychain mobo and I will go forward with 2x16GB, but currently I have these 4 sticks so... I am playing what I can do with them  ODTs are set to 80-34-40 (WR-Park-Nom). Also 80-34-48 works fine. Did not play with slopes, because I am missing any guidence on where to start here... Same for Vref. All set to auto.

Right now I got finally working 4200 16-16-16-34. It is stable, but despite having fixed RTLs/IO-Ls/ODTs it happens that I got POST code 55 and after several reboots mobo finally trains remaing stuff good enough. What's more intresting is that even if it POSTs, it is not always error free in TM5/Karhu - but there is a pattern - if there is no error during first 5 mins of test, it is fully stable (overnight test passes without single error and Prime95 112k FFTs are stable too). Otherwise I need to perform another reboot, and if there is no code 55, then there is a chance that some "auto" values will be properly set. In the same way I was able to boot with 4266 16-16-16-34. I have no idea which "auto" settings I should fix in BIOS to get rid of this transient instability. As I mentioned - almost all the memory related timings are already fixed. Is it possible that Vref and slope left on "auto" may cause this?

This is 4200 MHz result:










Any hints much appreciated.

Cheers!


----------



## Imprezzion

I run basically the same timings except for 16-17-17 primary on a DR kit at the moment. Secondary and tertiary is 95% the same, I run slightly lower tWR at 12 and tRFC 280, rest is the same. AIDA Results are identical. Bandwidth r,w,c is the same +- a few MB/s, latency is 36.7 for mine, so yeah looks solid to me.


----------



## 7empe

Imprezzion said:


> I run basically the same timings except for 16-17-17 primary on a DR kit at the moment. Secondary and tertiary is 95% the same, I run slightly lower tWR at 12 and tRFC 280, rest is the same. AIDA Results are identical. Bandwidth r,w,c is the same +- a few MB/s, latency is 36.7 for mine, so yeah looks solid to me.


What are your voltages? VDIMM, VCCSA, VCCIO? As for tRFC, I can run 280, but 275 causes severe instabilities. To be on the safe side I decided to lock on 300 (according to buildzoid, there is no big difference between 280 and 300).


----------



## Imprezzion

7empe said:


> What are your voltages? VDIMM, VCCSA, VCCIO? As for tRFC, I can run 280, but 275 causes severe instabilities. To be on the safe side I decided to lock on 300 (according to buildzoid, there is no big difference between 280 and 300).


1.49v vDIMM, 1.35v SA, 1.25v IO. (5Ghz cache, 5.3Ghz all core CPU 1.390v).

80-40-40 ODT's, DLL 0, PPD disabled, no training all manual RTL IO at 63/63/6/6 which is also a slight difference between our clocks lol.


----------



## 7empe

Imprezzion said:


> 1.49v vDIMM, 1.35v SA, 1.25v IO. (5Ghz cache, 5.3Ghz all core CPU 1.390v).
> 
> 80-40-40 ODT's, DLL 0, PPD disabled, no training all manual RTL IO at 63/63/6/6 which is also a slight difference between our clocks lol.


Nice voltages! Mine CPU has SP 53 and all I can do is 4.8 cache, 5.1 all core with 1.41v (LLC 4 of 8). I can run 5.2 with ridiculous voltages... To get rid of cache L0 errors with 4x8GB 4200 MHz and these timings I have to use 1.33v IO / 1.36v SA.


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> Hey, yeah it is daisychain mobo and I will go forward with 2x16GB, but currently I have these 4 sticks so... I am playing what I can do with them  ODTs are set to 80-34-40 (WR-Park-Nom). Also 80-34-48 works fine. Did not play with slopes, because I am missing any guidence on where to start here... Same for Vref. All set to auto.
> 
> Right now I got finally working 4200 16-16-16-34. It is stable, but despite having fixed RTLs/IO-Ls/ODTs it happens that I got POST code 55 and after several reboots mobo finally trains remaing stuff good enough. What's more intresting is that even if it POSTs, it is not always error free in TM5/Karhu - but there is a pattern - if there is no error during first 5 mins of test, it is fully stable (overnight test passes without single error and Prime95 112k FFTs are stable too). Otherwise I need to perform another reboot, and if there is no code 55, then there is a chance that some "auto" values will be properly set. In the same way I was able to boot with 4266 16-16-16-34. I have no idea which "auto" settings I should fix in BIOS to get rid of this transient instability. As I mentioned - almost all the memory related timings are already fixed. Is it possible that Vref and slope left on "auto" may cause this?
> 
> This is 4200 MHz result:
> 
> View attachment 2479777
> 
> 
> Any hints much appreciated.
> 
> Cheers!


I have made a thread listed in my sig for setting ODTs and the principals for setting slopes is fairly similar. Vref had only one voltage for me that was stable in GSAT so that was a no brainer
I can make a new thread on how I set my slopes if you like although I have the Apex XII and I'm not sure how many boards it will be relevant for. Probably the XII Extreme will be one 
GSAT seems the best tool to use for setting all these parameters.
There are other settings in the BIOS that compliment slopes but they train well in the Apex already so I don't need to address them but others might
Your results look pretty good and I'm fairly confident addressing the slopes will make it train and perform consistently 
I was having similar problems with 4600c16 up until setting them
Your voltages look pretty good 
Have you tried LLC7 with the Extreme. I think it has the best VRM of the lot


----------



## Gregix

Gregix -i7-8086K @5/4.8---3800Mhz-C14-14-14-30-2T----1.52v---SA 1.227v IO 1.226v---TM5 extreme----3 Hour 36 min (tXP=6, gear down mode=disabled)
F4-3200C14D-32GTZ
Probably(but not sure yet) I could go lower with VDIMM.









It does boot 4133, which was surprise to me after fail with z370. Should I go for it? Starting point was c17 at that speed.


----------



## 7empe

munternet said:


> I have made a thread listed in my sig for setting ODTs and the principals for setting slopes is fairly similar. Vref had only one voltage for me that was stable in GSAT so that was a no brainer
> I can make a new thread on how I set my slopes if you like although I have the Apex XII and I'm not sure how many boards it will be relevant for. Probably the XII Extreme will be one
> GSAT seems the best tool to use for setting all these parameters.
> There are other settings in the BIOS that compliment slopes but they train well in the Apex already so I don't need to address them but others might
> Your results look pretty good and I'm fairly confident addressing the slopes will make it train and perform consistently
> I was having similar problems with 4600c16 up until setting them
> Your voltages look pretty good
> Have you tried LLC7 with the Extreme. I think it has the best VRM of the lot


I would be more than happy to read about your experience regarding slope settings. Can you share a link to this thread? Thanks in advance!


----------



## asdkj1740

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Reason for knowing how high your cache can go on something like 4000c16 is because you will know your highest stable cache, because high frequency/tight timings can make cache go unstable, and sometimes it’s not worth sacrificing 300MHz cache for 100mhz on ram because cache boosts ram latency and bandwidth! Also once you get something stable you just retest with p95, OCCT large data ect after passing tm5, gsat ect. And you don’t have to rerun hrs of memory tests after you set cache. You can pass p95 4-112fft in place for cache and then throw 20 errors in a previous stable tm5 because cache increase.


what custom settings should i use for cache and memory test in p95??? or which preset suits the most?
thank you.


----------



## 7empe

asdkj1740 said:


> what custom settings should i use for cache and memory test in p95??? or which preset suits the most?
> thank you.


With p95 I use custom 112k - 112k FFTs in-place AVX disabled. This stress the cache and memory the most. If cache is unstable, you will notice L0 cache errors - you need to raise vccio in that case (and/or vcore). For computation errors raise vccsa (and/or vdimm).


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> I would be more than happy to read about your experience regarding slope settings. Can you share a link to this thread? Thanks in advance!


I documented my *method* and linked it in my sig


----------



## 7empe

munternet said:


> I documented my *method* and linked it in my sig


Thank you! Just started the same routine with adjusting slopes and already have way better results with 4x8 4266 cl16! First of all it was crucial to set odt_read_duration and odt_write_duration to 3 with odt_read_offset and odt_write_offset to 1. This change got rid of q-code 55 while training. Now I am going through all the slopes. Initially I set them 7-1 to avoid auto changes during tests. Right now I am focusing on the first pair (data rising; data falling) and it looks like (8;7) gives me the best result of 11'12" (almost 600% of coverage) without an error. Thanks again for sharing this stuff!


----------



## 7empe

Any ideas where to start with VRef? Should I start from 1/2 of VDIMM, just like for VTTDDR?


----------



## 7empe

This is what I can achieve after setting correct slopes:


----------



## Imprezzion

After some of you guys saying bandwidth is quite important if latency doesn't suffer too much I went for some higher freq testing.
It's a start lol.

4533 17-19-19-37-370-2T
5.3Ghz all core AVX0
5.0Ghz cache
1.52v DRAM
1.40v SA
1.35v IO
80-40-40 ODT, PPD disabled, DLL 0, slopes not touched yet, vref 0.780, all manual RTL and such, very loose tertiary (except tRDRD_dr).

I'm pretty impressed with this board / IMC now that I delidded it and direct die cooled it. It's getting fed substantially more vCore then before (over 0.1v more lol) and that did wonders for the IMC / cache. Before it struggled hard to even do 4.9Ghz cache and usually had to stress test RAM at 4.7Ghz and the IMC would not handle anything over 4400 RAM at all. Now it somehow breezes through 4533 at 5Ghz cache like it's nothing lol.

Shame I can't seem to be able to get better primaries again on these DIMM's. They really really hate equal primaries or even +1.










Even totally untweaked like this is already has the same latency as my previous 4200 16-17-17-35-280-2T OC at way way more bandwidth.
AIDA test is done with a normal full Windows boot with full bloaty mc bloatface apps and such running in the background. I'm sure if I go full safe mode and disable a bunch of services and task kill a bunch of stuff I can get like 35.4 ish but yeah, that ain't real world lol.


----------



## Gen.

Settings for maining


----------



## newls1

Question fellas, ive been a few weeks with my TREFI Maxed @ 65535 and just wondering at what point temps might show instability with it being set this high? I do have fans blowing over ram (from radiator being directly below) and so far max temp on my B-Die modules is 36c-ish...... What temp does b-die start showing errors?


----------



## Imprezzion

Can be as low as 45-48c. I didn't really get any noticable errors under 53c tho.

Weird this.. I just posted a near 2 hour TM5 run of 4533C17 without errors but it won't even play a game 10 minutes without crashing to desktop.. went back to my 4200C16 profile, doesn't crash.. what could cause that..


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Can be as low as 45-48c. I didn't really get any noticable errors under 53c tho.
> 
> Weird this.. I just posted a near 2 hour TM5 run of 4533C17 without errors but it won't even play a game 10 minutes without crashing to desktop.. went back to my 4200C16 profile, doesn't crash.. what could cause that..


Game is loading the whole chain of components. That's why Battlefield V is my choice of memory stability test. Testing cpu, cache/memory. Just everything


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Can be as low as 45-48c. I didn't really get any noticable errors under 53c tho.
> 
> Weird this.. I just posted a near 2 hour TM5 run of 4533C17 without errors but it won't even play a game 10 minutes without crashing to desktop.. went back to my 4200C16 profile, doesn't crash.. what could cause that..


You said you are using vref 0,78 thats like imc suicide lol. 
Standard is 0.5 vref, 0,50 - 0,55 is Safe. 
0,78 degrades your imc in minutes lol. 

Hope you ment Vtt voltage and Not vref otherwise you could have damaged your imc permanently


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> You said you are using vref 0,78 thats like imc suicide lol.
> Standard is 0.5 vref, 0,50 - 0,55 is Safe.
> 0,78 degrades your imc in minutes lol.
> 
> Hope you ment Vtt voltage and Not vref otherwise you could have damaged your imc permanently


Yeah I did mean vtt got the terminology mixed up. The one that decides at what value it is a 0 and what is a 1. That is vtt right? I had to raise it slightly above 50% to stop it from erroring really bad in copy tests.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah I did mean vtt got the terminology mixed up. The one that decides at what value it is a 0 and what is a 1. That is vtt right? I had to raise it slightly above 50% to stop it from erroring really bad in copy tests.


I dont understand why you run 4533 with such loose timings, makes no sense. 
Just look at my 4400 setting. 
You should settle for lower Frequency with tight timings, just getting high Frequency with this Bad secondaries and thirds is not gonna benefit anything.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> I dont understand why you run 4533 with such loose timings, makes no sense.
> Just look at my 4400 setting.
> You should settle for lower Frequency with tight timings, just getting high Frequency with this Bad secondaries and thirds is not gonna benefit anything.
> 
> View attachment 2479971


I did about every tweak you guys ever recommended and it did get me to 4400 17-17-17-36-320-2T with reasonable secondary timings but my tRDWR will not budge lower then 16's no matter what I try and the DIMM's are just too low of a bin to sustain CAS 16 on 4400. 

I guess I'm trying to compensate with frequency for these sticks just do not wanna run low timings on any frequency. At any frequency, even 3800 or 4000, these sticks just do not wanna run low enough timings to make it worth while. Efficiency wise the best I ever got was 4200 15-17-17-34-280-2T with tRDWR at 12's, tWRRD at 27/22 (tWTR 7/2), tCWL and tWR 14, tRRD_L+S 4, tFAW 16, RTL IO at 63/63/5/5. This did need a pretty crazy vDIMM of like 1.63v tho. Changing CAS to 16 lowers vDIMM to 1.49v. That is pretty much all these sticks have in them unless I run 4400 straight 17's with looser tertiary timings (16 tRDWR, 29/24 tWRRD) and slightly looser RTL IO (66/66/6/6) but they need very little vDIMM (1.48v) to do that so it might be more efficient in the long run.

There is no way in gods green earth these DIMM's will ever do the 4500+ C16 I see some people do here. 

Poor 3600C16's GTZN's with a _probably_ bad / fairly late production date as well.

Maybe I should upgrade to a proper kit... Like a 4400C19 kit or something..


----------



## 7empe

Hi Guys, question regarding 2x16GB kit with the best OC potential (high frequency / tight timings). Which set do you recommend? Would *2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 MHz CL19* be a good choice? Or maybe the same brand but *4000 MHz CL18 *(identical price) would be better? Any other recommendations?


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> Hi Guys, question regarding 2x16GB kit with the best OC potential (high frequency / tight timings). Which set do you recommend? Would *2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 MHz CL19* be a good choice? Or maybe the same brand but *4000 MHz CL18 *(identical price) would be better? Any other recommendations?


If you are looking for the best daily performance dual rank bdie is ideal. Ideally the 3600C14 and 3800C14 bins should be strong, 4000C16 is also a nice bin. I have the 3200C14 bin and these sticks can do 4600C16 so shouldn't have issues with them, lots of silicon lottery involved too. If you go for 2x16 4400 Crucial sticks these dimms will be single rank micron rev B as micron uses rev B on their 16Gb sticks above and including 4000, good for frequency but wont beat dual rank bdie for daily performance.


----------



## 7empe

YaqY said:


> If you are looking for the best daily performance dual rank bdie is ideal. Ideally the 3600C14 and 3800C14 bins should be strong, 4000C16 is also a nice bin. I have the 3200C14 bin and these sticks can do 4600C16 so shouldn't have issues with them, lots of silicon lottery involved too. If you go for 2x16 4400 Crucial sticks these dimms will be single rank micron rev B as micron uses rev B on their 16Gb sticks above and including 4000, good for frequency but wont beat dual rank bdie for daily performance.


Thanks! Which brands have 3800C14 or 4000C16 bdies as dual rank?


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> Thanks! Which brands have 3800C14 or 4000C16 bdies as dual rank?


G.Skill will have them, seems harder to find stock in them at the moment. I have had good experience with the 3200C14 kit which is quite cheaper too as well so i would still consider that a very good kit.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

7empe said:


> Thanks! Which brands have 3800C14 or 4000C16 bdies as dual rank?


Like YaqY said if you want best performance 2x16gb gskill or bust, 3200c14 kit, 3600c16 kit 1.35v will do 4600c16, along with the 3600/3800c14 kits, I’m running 4700c16 daily, and testing 1003 bios atm been running 0088, and gonna go for 4800-16-17-17-34 with almost if not exact same timings as 4600/4700c16
I’m running a 3200c14 kit, and also used a 3600c16 kit at 4500c16 while ago which did 
4800-14-14-14-28-280-2t benching.


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Hi Guys, question regarding 2x16GB kit with the best OC potential (high frequency / tight timings). Which set do you recommend? Would *2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 MHz CL19* be a good choice? Or maybe the same brand but *4000 MHz CL18 *(identical price) would be better? Any other recommendations?


Best dualrank 2x16 kit is g.skill 4266c17 2x16GB.


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> Hi Guys, question regarding 2x16GB kit with the best OC potential (high frequency / tight timings). Which set do you recommend? Would *2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 MHz CL19* be a good choice? Or maybe the same brand but *4000 MHz CL18 *(identical price) would be better? Any other recommendations?


I have 32GB F4-4266C17D-32GVKB which is quite pricey but a good chance of being a good bin. The 3200c14 which I think @MericaShotUrAss uses has excellent performance but may be more of a lottery if it's a good bin


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, negative Nancy here but my 3600C16 are.. rather mediocre at best. So no, avoid those IMHO.

I'm running a new test as I type this, results incoming. I don't think it's going to pass even 1 hour and it would really really surprise me if it passes 2 hours lol.


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Well, negative Nancy here but my 3600C16 are.. rather mediocre at best. So no, avoid those IMHO.
> 
> I'm running a new test as I type this, results incoming. I don't think it's going to pass even 1 hour and it would really really surprise me if it passes 2 hours lol.


My other sticks couldn’t do low Subs like yours and only 4400 c17 and I stopped bothering and bought new Kit. 
New Kit boots 4700 c16 eez and with that Kit im running 4400 c16 daily with tightest Subs like i posted in the Screenshot. 
Save yourself some trouble and try a new Kit.


----------



## Imprezzion

itssladenlol said:


> My other sticks couldn’t do low Subs like yours and only 4400 c17 and I stopped bothering and bought new Kit.
> New Kit boots 4700 c16 eez and with that Kit im running 4400 c16 daily with tightest Subs like i posted in the Screenshot.
> Save yourself some trouble and try a new Kit.


I really should lol. Honestly, I bought a second one of this exact kit for a friends rig with the same board but a 10900K and not a KF.
His kit does 4400C16 with ease. Mine stops here. Yes, it did actually complete 2 hours with no errors, and with pretty low IO / SA as well. But yeah, this is the end of this kit. If I change even 1 single timing it will freak out and give 100+ errors the first 10 minutes.

PPD Disabled, DLL 0, 1.50v vDIMM, 0.77 vtt, 80-40-40 ODT's. I purposely closed all the windows and doors and let it get freaking hot in here (it's like 27c here now) and they stayed well under control temp wise with the fan they have blowing on them.


----------



## Nizzen

MericaShotUrAss said:


> Like YaqY said if you want best performance 2x16gb gskill or bust, 3200c14 kit, 3600c16 kit 1.35v will do 4600c16, along with the 3600/3800c14 kits, I’m running 4700c16 daily, and testing 1003 bios atm been running 0088, and gonna go for 4800-16-17-17-34 with almost if not exact same timings as 4600/4700c16
> I’m running a 3200c14 kit, and also used a 3600c16 kit at 4500c16 while ago which did
> 4800-14-14-14-28-280-2t benching.


Can we see some aida64 memorybenchmark of 4700c16 and 4800c16?


----------



## 7empe

Hey Guys! You are my only hope... I am struggling with stabilizing *4266 MHz CL16 with 4x8GB DIMMs* (single rank, dual channel). Going up from *4200 MHz CL16* which is rock solid stable. I have fixed RTLs/IO-Ls based on the correctly trained values, fixed ODTs (including slopes and offsets) based on days of trial and error tests for the longest error-free benchmarks (gsat, tm5, karhu). CPU is 53sp 10900kf 5.1 GHz all-cores, 0 avx offset, 4.8 GHz uncore. Voltages:

VDIMM 1.56v
VCCIO 1.34v
VCCSA 1.36
VTTDDR 0.78125v
VPPDDR 2.80v
DRAM CTRL Ref Channel A and B set to 0.515x
With the above voltages and timings shown on the attached screenshots, it is stable with (gsat -W -s 3600 --max_errors 1) booted from USB stick. While going back to Windows 10, the TM5 gives errors in less than 1 minute. ***? I heard that gsat is more stressful than TM5...

The only BIOS settings that corresponds to RAM and are not fixed are *DRAM Data Ref Voltage DIMMx BLx. *I have M12E board, which allows to set these in range from 0 to 63. I believe this is 0.0 - 0.63 x VDIMM. I tried set all to 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55. In all the cases POST qcode 55. On Auto it POSTs successfully. What the hell is going on? Is it possible that some BL0-BL7 on some DIMMs require different values than others and therefore Auto does it right during training?


----------



## Imprezzion

7empe said:


> Hey Guys! You are my only hope... I am struggling with stabilizing *4266 MHz CL16 with 4x8GB DIMMs* (single rank, dual channel). Going up from *4200 MHz CL16* which is rock solid stable. I have fixed RTLs/IO-Ls based on the correctly trained values, fixed ODTs (including slopes and offsets) based on days of trial and error tests for the longest error-free benchmarks (gsat, tm5, karhu). CPU is 53sp 10900kf 5.1 GHz all-cores, 0 avx offset, 4.8 GHz uncore. Voltages:
> 
> VDIMM 1.56v
> VCCIO 1.34v
> VCCSA 1.36
> VTTDDR 0.78125v
> VPPDDR 2.80v
> DRAM CTRL Ref Channel A and B set to 0.515x
> With the above voltages and timings shown on the attached screenshots, it is stable with (gsat -W -s 3600 --max_errors 1) booted from USB stick. While going back to Windows 10, the TM5 gives errors in less than 1 minute. ***? I heard that gsat is more stressful than TM5...
> 
> The only BIOS settings that corresponds to RAM and are not fixed are *DRAM Data Ref Voltage DIMMx BLx. *I have M12E board, which allows to set these in range from 0 to 63. I believe this is 0.0 - 0.63 x VDIMM. I tried set all to 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55. In all the cases POST qcode 55. On Auto it POSTs successfully. What the hell is going on? Is it possible that some BL0-BL7 on some DIMMs require different values than others and therefore Auto does it right during training?


Did ya try anything else in Windows stresstest wise like Prime95 with whatever FFT is for RAM, HCI + MemTestHelper or OCCT or whatever you prefer? I wonder if it's just TM5 throwing a tantrum. GSAT should be more stressfull.. 

I managed to pull some decent results finally with 4400. Still no C16 but at least this is pretty balanced latency and bandwidth wise considering this is full bloaty mcbloatface Windows 10 Pro with a normal boot.


----------



## 7empe

Imprezzion said:


> Did ya try anything else in Windows stresstest wise like Prime95 with whatever FFT is for RAM, HCI + MemTestHelper or OCCT or whatever you prefer? I wonder if it's just TM5 throwing a tantrum. GSAT should be more stressfull..
> 
> I managed to pull some decent results finally with 4400. Still no C16 but at least this is pretty balanced latency and bandwidth wise considering this is full bloaty mcbloatface Windows 10 Pro with a normal boot.
> 
> View attachment 2480109
> 
> 
> View attachment 2480110


Yeah, I tried Karhu and got errors after 2-3 minutes. Now I am running gsat again to complete 3 hours test. 10 minutes remaining and no errors so far...


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Nizzen said:


> Can we see some aida64 memorybenchmark of 4700c16 and 4800c16?











My daily profile for gaming
Been swapping back and forth between this and a low frequency low voltage profile for mining when not using pc. Taking a break from everything I was testing bios 1003 yesterday and it’s ok, memory was 100% stable but cpu requires 20mv-30mv more vcore to be stable under same stress tests, like 5.3/50 on 0088 need 1.280v llc5 in bios on 1003 needs 1.310v for p95/realbench/OCCT small 5.4 followed same with 1.390v instead of 1.360v using these memory settings. When I run something relaxed like 4400c16 I can drop 30mv off vcore for reference on 0088 it doesn’t stress cpu nearly as hard during intense loading and unloading of core/cache/IMC

Only thing that urprised me with bios 1003 is how fast it post during full training, will play with it a little more when I have some time hoping to get 3600c14 DR kit sometime soon it’s back ordered. Will test 1003 bios some more maybe I missed something or maybe they changed how the LLC is but full load vcore/amps/watts looked correct.


----------



## Salve1412

7empe said:


> Hey Guys! You are my only hope... I am struggling with stabilizing *4266 MHz CL16 with 4x8GB DIMMs* (single rank, dual channel). Going up from *4200 MHz CL16* which is rock solid stable. I have fixed RTLs/IO-Ls based on the correctly trained values, fixed ODTs (including slopes and offsets) based on days of trial and error tests for the longest error-free benchmarks (gsat, tm5, karhu). CPU is 53sp 10900kf 5.1 GHz all-cores, 0 avx offset, 4.8 GHz uncore. Voltages:
> 
> VDIMM 1.56v
> VCCIO 1.34v
> VCCSA 1.36
> VTTDDR 0.78125v
> VPPDDR 2.80v
> DRAM CTRL Ref Channel A and B set to 0.515x
> With the above voltages and timings shown on the attached screenshots, it is stable with (gsat -W -s 3600 --max_errors 1) booted from USB stick. While going back to Windows 10, the TM5 gives errors in less than 1 minute. ***? I heard that gsat is more stressful than TM5...
> 
> The only BIOS settings that corresponds to RAM and are not fixed are *DRAM Data Ref Voltage DIMMx BLx. *I have M12E board, which allows to set these in range from 0 to 63. I believe this is 0.0 - 0.63 x VDIMM. I tried set all to 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55. In all the cases POST qcode 55. On Auto it POSTs successfully. What the hell is going on? Is it possible that some BL0-BL7 on some DIMMs require different values than others and therefore Auto does it right during training?


I own a XII Extreme too and I'm giving up on going past 4400MHz CL16, in my case with dual-rank sticks. Tested BIOS 0099 and 1003 without noticing significant differences: I simply can't make 4500/4533 CL16(17-17-36) with tightened subtimings remain stable between one training and the other. I'm using this combo for testing, 25 cycles Testmem5 1usmus v3 config (~3 hours), 2 hours GSAT and 2hours of OCCT Large Data Set (version 7.3.2, "Extreme" setting checked). Well, after a couple of weeks of testing I still can't reach a configuration that will prove itself rock solid in passing this testing trio across reboots (and retrainings, since Memory Fast Boot is disabled). Manually setting VREF multiplier and Slopes seemed to help at first, especially with GSAT, but I'm still getting very different behaviours in the sense that I can pass all of the aforementioned tests one after the other, just to reboot and fail any of them more or less badly and more or less istantly (sometimes after only a couple of minutes if not seconds. It's really frustrating and I think that I'll revert to safer settings, namely 4400MHz in signature.
BLs are the only relevant (as far as I know) values left on AUTO for me too, but adjusting them is too difficult: I am getting error 55 just like you, each time at different points of the training process based on the value I insert. I don't know if they are so important in terms of stability, but if it is so and they change across reboots maybe here is where the Apex really shows its superiority in terms of engineering, being able to consistently set them on AUTO at these and even higher frequencies (as the amazing results people have reached at 4600+ show).
I know that your situation is partially different from mine since you have 4 sticks (which makes things even trickier on this daisy-chain board), but I just wanted to share my experience so that you can get an idea of what you could expect to reach with 2×16GB.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> I own a XII Extreme too and I'm giving up on going past 4400MHz CL16, in my case with dual-rank sticks. Tested BIOS 0099 and 1003 without noticing significant differences: I simply can't make 4500/4533 CL16(17-17-36) with tightened subtimings remain stable between one training and the other. I'm using this combo for testing, 25 cycles Testmem5 1usmus v3 config (~3 hours), 2 hours GSAT and 2hours of OCCT Large Data Set (version 7.3.2, "Extreme" setting checked). Well, after a couple of weeks of testing I still can't reach a configuration that will prove itself rock solid in passing this testing trio across reboots (and retrainings, since Memory Fast Boot is disabled). Manually setting VREF multiplier and Slopes seemed to help at first, especially with GSAT, but I'm still getting very different behaviours in the sense that I can pass all of the aforementioned tests one after the other, just to reboot and fail any of them more or less badly and more or less istantly (sometimes after only a couple of minutes if not seconds. It's really frustrating and I think that I'll revert to safer settings, namely 4400MHz in signature.
> BLs are the only relevant (as far as I know) values left on AUTO for me too, but adjusting them is too difficult: I am getting error 55 just like you, each time at different points of the training process based on the value I insert. I don't know if they are so important in terms of stability, but if it is so and they change across reboots maybe here is where the Apex really shows its superiority in terms of engineering, being able to consistently set them on AUTO at these and even higher frequencies (as the amazing results people have reached at 4600+ show).
> I know that your situation is partially different from mine since you have 4 sticks (which makes things even trickier on this daisy-chain board), but I just wanted to share my experience so that you can get an idea of what you could expect to reach with 2×16GB.


Thanks for your input. I've been trying with 1003 and 2004 bios and behaviour is exactly the same as you described. Higher the frequency is, more boot to boot issues. Having a configuration rock solid stable in many tests for many hours, after the next boot every test may throw errors in a seconds... IMO motherboard is doing something while training, something that we cannot set to persitent in the bios. In my case I left only *DRAM Data Ref Voltage DIMMx BLx* on auto, cause I failed to post (code 55) with any possible configuration. Also *DRAM CLK Period* is on auto. Everything else is fixed. The only mystery is why 4200 and 4266 are stable in GSAT every single time, including overnight tests... I use TM5, Karhu and Prime95 112k-112k in-place no AVX for tests in W10. I have noticed that the magic freq border of stability for 4 DIMMs is 4100 MHz. After few weeks of fighting with 4200C16 and 4266C16 I gave up. Now I decided to run 4100C15 which is the tightest timing vs the highest frequency that does not suffer between the reboots:


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Tbh unless you are on an apex you can’t expect to get the same results, I have overclocked ram for a long time, on a variety of boards and you just are not going to touch the performance of apex on other boards. But on the timing config above ditch trrd_s/L being 4/4 needs to be 4/6 for dual rank, dual dimm setups, it will aggravate everything a lot above 4000mhz on every board and memory kit I’ve tested. Literally that is the difference on my z390 master from stable to not stable at pretty insane settings for that board, 4400c16, 4600c17
(4600c16) 99% stable just lost interest in pushing it harder for daily when I don’t game on it anymore, it runs stream, mines and used as a office pc in a sense until I get chance to run it on ln2.
4x8gb also requires bin/matching each stick to each dimm slot, which requires lots of testing, took about 3 weeks for me to get it that taken care of and I have a really good 4x8gb kit. There’s a lot of tricks like posting with higher vcore than required, lower SA/IO than required ect to make IMC as happy as possible for training the more extreme you go with ram, so keep that stuff in mind.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

7empe said:


> Thanks for your input. I've been trying with 1003 and 2004 bios and behaviour is exactly the same as you described. Higher the frequency is, more boot to boot issues. Having a configuration rock solid stable in many tests for many hours, after the next boot every test may throw errors in a seconds... IMO motherboard is doing something while training, something that we cannot set to persitent in the bios. In my case I left only *DRAM Data Ref Voltage DIMMx BLx* on auto, cause I failed to post (code 55) with any possible configuration. Also *DRAM CLK Period* is on auto. Everything else is fixed. The only mystery is why 4200 and 4266 are stable in GSAT every single time, including overnight tests... I use TM5, Karhu and Prime95 112k-112k in-place no AVX for tests in W10. I have noticed that the magic freq border of stability for 4 DIMMs is 4100 MHz. After few weeks of fighting with 4200C16 and 4266C16 I gave up. Now I decided to run 4100C15 which is the tightest timing vs the highest frequency that does not suffer between the reboots:
> 
> View attachment 2480261
> View attachment 2480262





Salve1412 said:


> I own a XII Extreme too and I'm giving up on going past 4400MHz CL16, in my case with dual-rank sticks. Tested BIOS 0099 and 1003 without noticing significant differences: I simply can't make 4500/4533 CL16(17-17-36) with tightened subtimings remain stable between one training and the other. I'm using this combo for testing, 25 cycles Testmem5 1usmus v3 config (~3 hours), 2 hours GSAT and 2hours of OCCT Large Data Set (version 7.3.2, "Extreme" setting checked). Well, after a couple of weeks of testing I still can't reach a configuration that will prove itself rock solid in passing this testing trio across reboots (and retrainings, since Memory Fast Boot is disabled). Manually setting VREF multiplier and Slopes seemed to help at first, especially with GSAT, but I'm still getting very different behaviours in the sense that I can pass all of the aforementioned tests one after the other, just to reboot and fail any of them more or less badly and more or less istantly (sometimes after only a couple of minutes if not seconds. It's really frustrating and I think that I'll revert to safer settings, namely 4400MHz in signature.
> BLs are the only relevant (as far as I know) values left on AUTO for me too, but adjusting them is too difficult: I am getting error 55 just like you, each time at different points of the training process based on the value I insert. I don't know if they are so important in terms of stability, but if it is so and they change across reboots maybe here is where the Apex really shows its superiority in terms of engineering, being able to consistently set them on AUTO at these and even higher frequencies (as the amazing results people have reached at 4600+ show).
> I know that your situation is partially different from mine since you have 4 sticks (which makes things even trickier on this daisy-chain board), but I just wanted to share my experience so that you can get an idea of what you could expect to reach with 2×16GB.


But for both of you guys I don’t set why you can’t get a solid 4400c16/c17 or 4600c17 on your boards, the IMC in 10th gen is a lot better, the board tech on Asus extreme is really solid as far as transients, for cpu, dram ect so just keep at it, sometimes taking a break and a step back clearing your mind helps instead of day in day out fight to make something happen, going back to it with a little different approach. Another thing to try which may help you, back cpu off to say 45/42cache like 1.150vCore but use your same SA/IO do all of your testing there run boot SA/IO at like 1.2v and work your way up till it starts posting consistently, time and time again people are too aggressive, the training process is the board figuring out how to run your ram at your given settings, so for it to repeat, cpu/IMC/ram needs to be as happy as possible when doing everything at ambient temps for daily use. When using sub-zero cooling, ln2/dice ect you IMC is like a teenager having his pecker touched for the first time, so you can get away with shoving 1.4v+ SA/IO whatever vcore cpu runs on ect but for ambient the more extreme the settings the tighter everything else has to be configured to repeat. And yes some mobo and chips just may suck, and some sets of ram as well but when I did 4400c16 like 2 yrs ago on Aorus z390 master like there was no comparison to what other people were doing and everyone was saying oh 3900 is where it’s at, buildziod running 4533 with throw a hotdog down a hallway timings. I beat my Aorus z390 extreme with the master, go figure. I had many frustrating nights with that setup, just like many with m12a, it’s a learning curve I overclocked ram on Bulldozer AMD, doesn’t get much more ******ed than that. Just get yourself a full size notebook not a binder just one of those 100 page spirals and take notes, list all your timings, all your voltages ect and make a change document your results, even use a stopwatch and time how long training takes. It’s up to you if you want to progress or settle, you already have something to daily, so if you have the time and will stick with it, or even grab another ram kit to play with compare results. I have tones of ram, everything I’ve kept will run/bench in top .1% on ambient but still every kit has its quirks.


----------



## 7empe

MericaShotUrAss said:


> But for both of you guys I don’t set why you can’t get a solid 4400c16/c17 or 4600c17 on your boards, the IMC in 10th gen is a lot better, the board tech on Asus extreme is really solid as far as transients, for cpu, dram ect so just keep at it, sometimes taking a break and a step back clearing your mind helps instead of day in day out fight to make something happen, going back to it with a little different approach. Another thing to try which may help you, back cpu off to say 45/42cache like 1.150vCore but use your same SA/IO do all of your testing there run boot SA/IO at like 1.2v and work your way up till it starts posting consistently, time and time again people are too aggressive, the training process is the board figuring out how to run your ram at your given settings, so for it to repeat, cpu/IMC/ram needs to be as happy as possible when doing everything at ambient temps for daily use. When using sub-zero cooling, ln2/dice ect you IMC is like a teenager having his pecker touched for the first time, so you can get away with shoving 1.4v+ SA/IO whatever vcore cpu runs on ect but for ambient the more extreme the settings the tighter everything else has to be configured to repeat. And yes some mobo and chips just may suck, and some sets of ram as well but when I did 4400c16 like 2 yrs ago on Aorus z390 master like there was no comparison to what other people were doing and everyone was saying oh 3900 is where it’s at, buildziod running 4533 with throw a hotdog down a hallway timings. I beat my Aorus z390 extreme with the master, go figure. I had many frustrating nights with that setup, just like many with m12a, it’s a learning curve I overclocked ram on Bulldozer AMD, doesn’t get much more ******ed than that. Just get yourself a full size notebook not a binder just one of those 100 page spirals and take notes, list all your timings, all your voltages ect and make a change document your results, even use a stopwatch and time how long training takes. It’s up to you if you want to progress or settle, you already have something to daily, so if you have the time and will stick with it, or even grab another ram kit to play with compare results. I have tones of ram, everything I’ve kept will run/bench in top .1% on ambient but still every kit has its quirks.


With my 4x8 4400 C19 Viper Steel, I cannot boot with XMP nor auto settings with anything above 4266 (4300, 4400 etc.). My 10900kf SP is 53, soo.... If I can do 51x all-core without avx offset then maybe the worst part of the silicon went to the IMC


----------



## Salve1412

MericaShotUrAss said:


> But for both of you guys I don’t set why you can’t get a solid 4400c16/c17 or 4600c17 on your boards, the IMC in 10th gen is a lot better, the board tech on Asus extreme is really solid as far as transients, for cpu, dram ect so just keep at it, sometimes taking a break and a step back clearing your mind helps instead of day in day out fight to make something happen, going back to it with a little different approach. Another thing to try which may help you, back cpu off to say 45/42cache like 1.150vCore but use your same SA/IO do all of your testing there run boot SA/IO at like 1.2v and work your way up till it starts posting consistently, time and time again people are too aggressive, the training process is the board figuring out how to run your ram at your given settings, so for it to repeat, cpu/IMC/ram needs to be as happy as possible when doing everything at ambient temps for daily use. When using sub-zero cooling, ln2/dice ect you IMC is like a teenager having his pecker touched for the first time, so you can get away with shoving 1.4v+ SA/IO whatever vcore cpu runs on ect but for ambient the more extreme the settings the tighter everything else has to be configured to repeat. And yes some mobo and chips just may suck, and some sets of ram as well but when I did 4400c16 like 2 yrs ago on Aorus z390 master like there was no comparison to what other people were doing and everyone was saying oh 3900 is where it’s at, buildziod running 4533 with throw a hotdog down a hallway timings. I beat my Aorus z390 extreme with the master, go figure. I had many frustrating nights with that setup, just like many with m12a, it’s a learning curve I overclocked ram on Bulldozer AMD, doesn’t get much more ******ed than that. Just get yourself a full size notebook not a binder just one of those 100 page spirals and take notes, list all your timings, all your voltages ect and make a change document your results, even use a stopwatch and time how long training takes. It’s up to you if you want to progress or settle, you already have something to daily, so if you have the time and will stick with it, or even grab another ram kit to play with compare results. I have tones of ram, everything I’ve kept will run/bench in top .1% on ambient but still every kit has its quirks.


4400 CL16 with tightened timings is very easy to reach on the Extreme with good DR sticks, without even having to resort to tweaking stuff such as Skews, Slopes, VREF, Memory Algorithms etc. VCCIO/VCCSA requirements are really low (on above average SP CPUs) and the board handles the overclock in a solid way, even after multiple power losses/retrainings. In my experience it seems that from 4500 CL16 on things become much less consistent, at least from the prudent perspective of "stability across reboots/retraining". The aforementioned tweaks that help stabilizing things on an Apex seem to be less effective with this board.
What I don't understand is the huge gap between let's say two consecutive sessions of testing separated by a retraining. For example, you pass TestMem5, OCCT and GSAT with flying colours, you wait for RAM to cool down (since temperatures affect memory training), then you reboot forcing a retraining (with Memory Fast Boot disabled), you start again GSAT and it fails on 30 seconds with clusters of errors ranging from 8 up to 40 and more, even though you had manually fixed most of the memory-related settings in BIOS (literally only BLs being excluded). This is what makes me much less confident.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> 4400 CL16 with tightened timings is very easy to reach on the Extreme with good DR sticks, without even having to resort to tweaking stuff such as Skews, Slopes, VREF, Memory Algorithms etc. VCCIO/VCCSA requirements are really low (on above average SP CPUs) and the board handles the overclock in a solid way, even after multiple power losses/retrainings. In my experience it seems that from 4500 CL16 on things become much less consistent, at least from the prudent perspective of "stability across reboots/retraining". The aforementioned tweaks that help stabilizing things on an Apex seem to be less effective with this board.
> What I don't understand is the huge gap between let's say two consecutive sessions of testing separated by a retraining. For example, you pass TestMem5, OCCT and GSAT with flying colours, you wait for RAM to cool down (since temperatures affect memory training), then you reboot forcing a retraining (with Memory Fast Boot disabled), you start again GSAT and it fails on 30 seconds with clusters of errors ranging from 8 up to 40 and more, even though you had manually fixed most of the memory-related settings in BIOS (literally only BLs being excluded). This is what makes me much less confident.


Using two 2x8GB sticks only I've managed to run 4600 CL17. The issue is with 4 sticks and getting 4200+ and CL16...


----------



## Salve1412

7empe said:


> Using two 2x8GB sticks only I've managed to run 4600 CL17. The issue is with 4 sticks and getting 4200+ and CL16...


Yeah, maybe I should consider 4600 CL17. Dual rank and single rank sticks are different beasts, though.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> Yeah, maybe I should consider 4600 CL17. Dual rank and single rank sticks are different beasts, though.


True. I have SR right now. Trying to find some good DR 2x16GB G.Skill 3200-3800 with CL14 or CL15. It seems that not only GPUs and CPUs are out of stock, but also there is a severe lack of RAM choice... Weird times.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Yeah right now is a tough time to buy ram, and single to dual rank there’s no comparison, for reference I can run
5000-17-17-17-37-2t-360 on single rank without much trouble, but 4700c16 is better performance on dual rank, I never finished railing SR kit for every last drop. I have couple SR kits that will all do 4800c16 for daily, and bench 4800+ 14-14–14-28-1t-280 the kit that does 5000c17 will prob do 5000c16 with little more voltage, but also was letting me bench 5100-5200c14-1t at 2.03v ambient so there’s no comparison dual rank has better performance but takes more work. SR is easy TBH that’s reason I set all my SR kits aside and sold anything that wasn’t 1% kits. Should have just binned 20 DR kits didn’t think 4600-4700 was going to be possible on dual rank in the beginning when I started with 10th gen.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Does anyone know if unstable RAM OC can cause infinite loading taskbar?

System:
10900K
Apex Z490
32GB DDR4 (16GBx2)

Reference photo:


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know if unstable RAM OC can cause infinite loading taskbar?
> 
> System:
> 10900K
> Apex Z490
> 32GB DDR4 (16GBx2)
> 
> Reference photo:
> View attachment 2480399


Yes, and some of your icons might disappear from the system tray.


----------



## SoldierRBT

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yes, and some of your icons might disappear from the system tray.


Thanks. Could it be related to temperature? I’ve noticed that after gaming for a few hours and then doing multiple restarts it would do it sometimes. Any way to fix it?


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know if unstable RAM OC can cause infinite loading taskbar?
> 
> System:
> 10900K
> Apex Z490
> 32GB DDR4 (16GBx2)
> 
> Reference photo:
> View attachment 2480399


I get this kind of thing quite often if I go a step too far with the memory overclock
First thing to get corrupted seems to be the icon cache. To fix this I usually delete a particular icon cache file
Sounds like you need to have a look at this though How to Rebuild a Broken Icon Cache in Windows 10
Have you had any desktop icons change to a plain white folder?

A good test would be GSAT


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks. Could it be related to temperature? I’ve noticed that after gaming for a few hours and then doing multiple restarts it would do it sometimes. Any way to fix it?


Basically it means your ram is still unstable. Could be temp. High temperature can decrease the signal quality. You can increase VCCSA or decrease your tREFI.

Can also try @munternet 's method to fix if that problem persists.


----------



## SoldierRBT

munternet said:


> I get this kind of thing quite often if I go a step too far with the memory overclock
> First thing to get corrupted seems to be the icon cache. To fix this I usually delete a particular icon cache file
> Sounds like you need to have a look at this though How to Rebuild a Broken Icon Cache in Windows 10
> Have you had any desktop icons change to a plain white folder?
> 
> A good test would be GSAT


Thanks I'll try that. I haven't seen any desktop icons change to plain white folder just infinite loading taskbar and system tray icons disappear. I'm not sure but it could be related to temperature since it happens after I run a test or gaming and then I do multiple restarts. I'm running 1.59v on Ripjwas stock heatsink 4500 16-17-17-34 1.34v IO/SA. 2x16GB. I tested it with TM5 Extreme and it passed.


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks I'll try that. I haven't seen any desktop icons change to plain white folder just infinite loading taskbar and system tray icons disappear. I'm not sure but it could be related to temperature since it happens after I run a test or gaming and then I do multiple restarts. I'm running 1.59v on Ripjwas stock heatsink 4500 16-17-17-34 1.34v IO/SA. 2x16GB. I tested it with TM5 Extreme and it passed.


GSAT is probably more important at this stage. Just run it from USB if you don't have the time to install GSAT (Google Stressful Application Test) on a tiny...
There is a link in my sig to install


----------



## robertr1

What's the highest DR bdie people got stable on Z390? Apex ideally.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi,

I'm using the same configuration, but L1, L2 and L3 memories are not so fast as before...
What could happen ?


----------



## KedarWolf

Intel has killed its Performance Tuning Protection Plan I read. But peeps abused it, would get a CPU that never performed well, then purposely destroy it with max voltages to get a new, hopefully better one. 






EOL HOME


Intel




tuningplan.intel.com




.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Very strange... I reinstalled WIN-10 and the Performance came back...


----------



## cstkl1

screw bdie

just went djr dual rank

loving [email protected] 2x16gb
will try 5ghz later ..

bdie dual rank 2x16gb kit that does [email protected]
[email protected]
for sale.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> screw bdie
> 
> just went djr dual rank
> 
> loving [email protected] 2x16gb
> will try 5ghz later ..
> 
> bdie dual rank 2x16gb kit that does [email protected]
> [email protected]
> for sale.


Any screenshots with the setup and aida possibly? What voltages do you need to drive this.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

cstkl1 said:


> screw bdie
> 
> just went djr dual rank
> 
> loving [email protected] 2x16gb
> will try 5ghz later ..
> 
> bdie dual rank 2x16gb kit that does [email protected]
> [email protected]
> for sale.


I’m mean 4900 is cool but c19 depending on rest of timings is probably equal maybe even slightly slower to 4600c16 on good Bdie.


----------



## cstkl1

MericaShotUrAss said:


> I’m mean 4900 is cool but c19 depending on rest of timings is probably equal maybe even slightly slower to 4600c16 on good Bdie.












4600c16 bdie aint gonna touch dis.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2481000
> 
> 
> 4600c16 bdie aint gonna touch dis.


Full Screenshot with asrock timing config? Copy is quite low.


----------



## SunnyStefan

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2481000
> 
> 
> 4600c16 bdie aint gonna touch dis.


Impressive Read and Write speeds, latency must be high considering you are intentionally hiding it.


----------



## cstkl1

SunnyStefan said:


> Impressive Read and Write speeds, latency must be high considering you are intentionally hiding it.


no. its not because of that.😊


----------



## munternet

cstkl1 said:


> no. its not because of that.😊


What sticks are you using ?
Cheers


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> screw bdie
> 
> just went djr dual rank
> 
> loving [email protected] 2x16gb
> will try 5ghz later ..
> 
> bdie dual rank 2x16gb kit that does [email protected]
> [email protected]
> for sale.


Nice! I want to see the performance, to see if it's actually performing very good 😁


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> no. its not because of that.😊


It crashed 🤣


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> It crashed 🤣


nope. lol. 4950 atm my max stable, still tweaking for 5k. thats when i will post a ss. the bandwidth ss i posted was 5kc19

y the feeling on "unworthy" cause last year gskill posted a preview of dual rank 5kc19. must muster all my skills. then theres something actually impressive..

4800/4900 is a joke on on djr.. especially dual rank ones trumps bdies.

they are not so temp prone. io/sa for 4800 is 1.2v ya.

now looking at debauer video of getting that 5kc19 aorus kit with giga extreme waterforce, dat noob.. 

u can check clockemup also easy 4900 on djr, 5k stable.. its a challenge


----------



## cstkl1

munternet said:


> What sticks are you using ?
> Cheers


djr sticks 8 layer pcb from hynix slapped on some barrow heatsink.


----------



## cstkl1

adata asking insane price for the d50 2x8gb 5000cl19 @1.6v kit.. usd 700
4800cl19 kit usd 450


----------



## cstkl1

this was leaked by teamgroup

pretty loose










as i mentioned before. bdie is bye bye


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> this was leaked by teamgroup
> 
> pretty loose
> 
> View attachment 2481109
> 
> 
> as i mentioned before. bdie is bye bye


Rocketlake ?


----------



## Nizzen

This came in the mail today 😅

Ordered in Norway 3 days ago 🤭


----------



## Gen.

What ODT do you use for 2*16GB Samsung B-Die 2R on Asus Z490 in particular for XII (12) Hero Wi-Fi for 4400+. 4300 and lower working on auto ODT.


----------



## Salve1412

Gen. said:


> What ODT do you use for 2*16GB Samsung B-Die 2R on Asus Z490 in particular for XII (12) Hero Wi-Fi for 4400+. 4300 and lower working on auto ODT.


On Maximus XII Extreme AUTO works fine in my case for 4400 CL16 (stable RAM overclock). Different story for 4500/4533 CL16: I used 80-40-0 without experiencing any training issue, but in the end I didn't manage to reach a fully stable overclock across shutdowns/retrainings.


----------



## munternet

Gen. said:


> What ODT do you use for 2*16GB Samsung B-Die 2R on Asus Z490 in particular for XII (12) Hero Wi-Fi for 4400+. 4300 and lower working on auto ODT.


120-48-0 works well for me with my daily on Apex. Could possibly run 80 instead of 120 but the 48 and 0 must stay


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> This came in the mail today 😅
> 
> Ordered in Norway 3 days ago 🤭
> 
> View attachment 2481133
> 
> View attachment 2481134


pmed ya some quick info to speed up ram oc.


----------



## Kana Chan

cstkl1 said:


> adata asking insane price for the d50 2x8gb 5000cl19 @1.6v kit.. usd 700
> 4800cl19 kit usd 450


Are you watercooling these sticks?


----------



## cstkl1

Kana Chan said:


> Are you watercooling these sticks?


you dont need to wc djr

1.8v on air SR sticks with temp sensor on it.. they are only 38-39c on load.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

cstkl1 said:


> you dont need to wc djr
> 
> 1.8v on air SR sticks with temp sensor on it.. they are only 38-39c on load.


wait hold up thought you were talking about Dual rank! Man you are gonna make me break out my single rank sticks bud! And I really don’t have the time.







This was like 95% stable and I was still working on it couple months ago, 1.61vdimm, 1.30vIO, 1.35vSA at 5000-17-17-17-34-2t-360 I tuned RTL/IOL and then I switched to dual rank and haven’t put these back in.


----------



## cstkl1

MericaShotUrAss said:


> wait hold up thought you were talking about Dual rank! Man you are gonna make me break out my single rank sticks bud! And I really don’t have the time.
> View attachment 2481232
> This was like 95% stable and I was still working on it couple months ago, 1.61vdimm, 1.30vIO, 1.35vSA at 5000-17-17-17-34-2t-360 I tuned RTL/IOL and then I switched to dual rank and haven’t put these back in.


lol
single rank.. errr i think dude u gonna be in shock with 5600C20 fully tuned stable DJR single ranks coming in soon. 

those kits that can do this.. $$$$

personally i prefer dual ranks


----------



## Kana Chan

MericaShotUrAss said:


> wait hold up thought you were talking about Dual rank! Man you are gonna make me break out my single rank sticks bud! And I really don’t have the time.
> was like 95% stable and I was still working on it couple months ago, 1.61vdimm, 1.30vIO, 1.35vSA at 5000-17-17-17-34-2t-360 I tuned RTL/IOL and then I switched to dual rank and haven’t put these back in.


 Does this affect your fps in games by a lot vs 4200C16 range?


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

Kana Chan said:


> Does this affect your fps in games by a lot vs 4200C16 range?


So it depends on game, I play warzone as my main and Dual rank memory scales really well that’s why I’m running dual rank at 4700-16-17-17-34-280 instead of single rank, which technically Single rank is faster with slightly lower latency but comparing very equal bandwidth/latency dual rank netted almost 40fps avg and .1% lows were significantly higher, benching warzone is tough but my results seemed pretty solid I haven’t gone back to daily single rank but when life isn’t so hectic I will spend more time comparing the 2. I have no limitations like power limits on GPU ect, hardware modded power and voltage 2080ti which never down clocks ect so test environment is as close as possible for Single vs dual rank.


----------



## Gregix

Intel Core i7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake







www.anandtech.com




nothing interesting ppl...I'd say, regress...


----------



## Agent-A01

Anyone ever get 0xc0000005 errors only, application crashes not BSOD.

Not ram, never get errors on that.
Vcore perhaps or some other voltage?


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah once or twice. Mine was related to cache clock. 5Ghz is a bit iffy. Went back to 4.9, never had one again.


----------



## heavyrain

cstkl1 said:


> screw bdie
> 
> just went djr dual rank
> 
> loving [email protected] 2x16gb
> will try 5ghz later ..
> 
> bdie dual rank 2x16gb kit that does [email protected]
> [email protected]
> for sale.


where to buy 4400c16 dual rank bdie？


----------



## cstkl1

heavyrain said:


> where to buy 4400c16 dual rank bdie？


i am selling mine.


----------



## cstkl1

gave up cl19. (think need to wc the rams)

settled 5066cl20 DR. 
5200 seems promising..


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> Can be as low as 45-48c. I didn't really get any noticable errors under 53c tho.
> 
> Weird this.. I just posted a near 2 hour TM5 run of 4533C17 without errors but it won't even play a game 10 minutes without crashing to desktop.. went back to my 4200C16 profile, doesn't crash.. what could cause that..


Did you run prime95 AVX disabled 112k in-place, and 72k-84k?
You can even do large FFT after.






Prime95 v30.4/30.5/30.6 - mersenneforum.org


Prime95 v30.4/30.5/30.6 Software



mersenneforum.org


----------



## Arctucas

itssladenlol said:


> You said you are using vref 0,78 thats like imc suicide lol.
> Standard is 0.5 vref, 0,50 - 0,55 is Safe.
> 0,78 degrades your imc in minutes lol.
> 
> Hope you ment Vtt voltage and Not vref otherwise you could have damaged your imc permanently


Is that the VrefA and VrefB I have highlighted?


----------



## 7empe

Hi!

I have finally found the sweetspot for my SR 4x8GB 4400 MHz Patriot Viper Steel + M12E (BIOS v2004) + 10900KF. I have two configs 4000 MHz and 4100 MHz CL15 with the only difference at voltages and RTLs/IO-Ls, but with exactly the same timings:










I had to work on RTLs/IO-Ls, skews and DRAM reference voltages and fix them with optimal values.

*4000 MHz 15-15-15-36T*

vDIMM: 1.53V
VTTddr: 0.7625V
VCCio: 1.28V
VCCSA: 1.32V









​*4100 MHz 15-15-15-36T*

vDIMM: 1.58V
VTTddr: 0.78750V
VCCio: 1.28V
VCCSA: 1.34V
RTLs: 58/58/59/60 & IO-Ls: 6/6/6/6










Both configs are error free with GSAT, TM5, Karhu and Prime95 112k-112k. With trace centering enabled I can run CR1 up to 4100 MHz, but unfortunatelly it starts erroring after few minutes of testing and I did not find a solution yet.

Cheers!


----------



## heavyrain

7empe said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have finally found the sweetspot for my SR 4x8GB 4400 MHz Patriot Viper Steel + M12E (BIOS v2004) + 10900KF. I have two configs 4000 MHz and 4100 MHz CL15 with the only difference at voltages and RTLs/IO-Ls, but with exactly the same timings:
> 
> View attachment 2481947
> 
> 
> I had to work on RTLs/IO-Ls, skews and DRAM reference voltages and fix them with optimal values.
> 
> *4000 MHz 15-15-15-36T*
> 
> vDIMM: 1.53V
> VTTddr: 0.7625V
> VCCio: 1.28V
> VCCSA: 1.32V
> 
> View attachment 2481948
> 
> ​*4100 MHz 15-15-15-36T*
> 
> vDIMM: 1.58V
> VTTddr: 0.78750V
> VCCio: 1.28V
> VCCSA: 1.34V
> RTLs: 58/58/59/60 & IO-Ls: 6/6/6/6
> 
> View attachment 2481949
> 
> 
> Both configs are error free with GSAT, TM5, Karhu and Prime95 112k-112k. With trace centering enabled I can run CR1 up to 4100 MHz, but unfortunatelly it starts erroring after few minutes of testing and I did not find a solution yet.
> 
> Cheers!


why is tREFI 60000 not 65535？


----------



## 7empe

heavyrain said:


> why is tREFI 60000 not 65535？


Mainly because I like even numbers


----------



## KedarWolf

7empe said:


> Mainly because I like even numbers


If anyone needs a zero, @7empe has lots of them!!


----------



## 7empe

KedarWolf said:


> If anyone needs a zero, @7empe has lots of them!!


Zeros on me for everyone!


----------



## KedarWolf

7empe said:


> Zeros on me for everyone!


You can have a zero, and you, zeros for everyone!!


----------



## satinghostrider

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know if unstable RAM OC can cause infinite loading taskbar?
> 
> System:
> 10900K
> Apex Z490
> 32GB DDR4 (16GBx2)
> 
> Reference photo:
> View attachment 2480399


Infinite taskbar not loading is something to do with Razer Huntsman Mini / Razer Huntsman TE TKL keyboards.
Nothing to do with your RAM OC.


----------



## SoldierRBT

satinghostrider said:


> Infinite taskbar not loading is something to do with Razer Huntsman Mini / Razer Huntsman TE TKL keyboards.
> Nothing to do with your RAM OC.


Interesting. Thanks for the info. It’s something that’s been killing me for months and I know it isn’t my RAM OC because it happens even when running XMP profile. I do have the Razer Huntsman TE Keyboard and Razer Viper Ultimate. Is there any fix?


----------



## satinghostrider

SoldierRBT said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the info. It’s something that’s been killing me for months and I know it isn’t my RAM OC because it happens even when running XMP profile. I do have the Razer Huntsman TE Keyboard and Razer Viper Ultimate. Is there any fix?


No fix yet. That is the reason I dumped both my keyboard and mouse in the the thrash and moved to something else. This issues have been happening since around October last year and Razer does not even know which SKUs are affected. The Hunstman Mini and Huntsman Tournament Edition both have this problem. I know for the Huntsman Mini there has been a bios released a few weeks back only to solve this but not the Tournament Edition TKL. I guess you could follow this thread if you are patient for a fix. Unfortunately I was not and I got rid of all my Razer devices.

Razer Insider | Forum - Huntsman mini broke my windows | Page 14


----------



## bscool

SoldierRBT said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the info. It’s something that’s been killing me for months and I know it isn’t my RAM OC because it happens even when running XMP profile. I do have the Razer Huntsman TE Keyboard and Razer Viper Ultimate. Is there any fix?


One thing I found that can help is trying different USB ports. On a z490 Hero I built for someone else using the blue USB ports fixed it using other USB ports caused the super long Windows loading. Also unplugging and replugging in the Keyboard will "fix it" for that boot. You can do the unplug and plug right at the keyboard for convenience.

I have had this happen on various z390 and z490 MB. Seems to happen more on z490 than z390. Using USB 2.0 ports doesn't fix it for me as I have seen some suggest. Anyway just some feedback as for a while I thought it was related to unstable ram oc.


----------



## satinghostrider

bscool said:


> One thing I found that can help is trying different USB ports. On a z490 Hero I built for someone else using the blue USB ports fixed it using other USB ports caused the super long Windows loading. Also unplugging and replugging in the Keyboard will "fix it" for that boot. You can do the unplug and plug right at the keyboard for convenience.
> 
> I have had this happen on various z390 and z490 MB. Seems to happen more on z490 than z390. Using USB 2.0 ports doesn't fix it for me as I have seen some suggest. Anyway just some feedback as for a while I thought it was related to unstable ram oc.


On my Z390, none of the USB ports worked and it was always exhibiting the same issue. Many have mentioned connecting the keyboard through a passthrough like a USB Hub solves this problem but I think many don't so it isn't a solution for me at least. I'm not sure how it behaves with the Z490 though since I don't own one.

All I can say is that it took me a while to figure out it was the stupid keyboard that was screwing with the windows taskbar and Razer took forever to even acknowledge this problem. As of date, they have a bios fix only for the huntsman mini which comes with some cons like sticky keys and some keys not registering. For the Huntsman TE TKL, they are still apparently investigating. Since like last year when people were complaining. Still nothing till today.

Like many, I also thought it was my RAM or CPU OC, I reinstalled windows like 5 times before finding out. So guys who have this problem, don't ever reinstall Windows or tinker with your OC cause the problem isn't cause by any of that.


----------



## 7empe

So, I received finally 2x16GB dual rank 4000 16-19-19-39 G.SKILL Trident Z RGB and placed them on the M12E for OC fun. Just like few posts above with 4x8GB I would like to share what I have achieved so far. Both configs are stable and differ only with voltages. Only few timings had to be increased in case of 4500 MHz


*4400 MHz 16-17-17-35T*
This was quite easy, setting initially all the 1st, 2nd, 3rd timings, RTLs, IO-Ls, Skews, Vref to fixed values based on experience. Few tweaks later it was stable.
The only difference in timings presented for 4500 are:
tWR=12 (tWRPRE=31)
tRTP=8 (tRDPRE=8)
tCWL=15












*4500 MHz 16-17-17-35T*
After getting a stable 4400 and changing frequency to 4500 I could not event POST. It was obvious that I have to increase VDRAM, VCCIO and VCCSA, but even setting them much higher than it should require I could not POST. Solution:
Increase Vref by 0.005x
Set all signal slopes to 6 (range is 1-15) but, what is more important, set offsets for these slopes to 0.

Btw. this TM5 test shown here is just for your reference - I did much longer testing with TM5, Karhu, Prime95 before 











I am convinced that I can now work on reducing VDIMM, VCCIO and/or VCCSA slightly.

Road to 4600 is now open...


----------



## Salve1412

7empe said:


> So, I received finally 2x16GB dual rank 4000 16-19-19-39 G.SKILL Trident Z RGB and placed them on the M12E for OC fun. Just like few posts above with 4x8GB I would like to share what I have achieved so far. Both configs are stable and differ only with voltages. Only few timings had to be increased in case of 4500 MHz
> 
> 
> *4400 MHz 16-17-17-35T*
> This was quite easy, setting initially all the 1st, 2nd, 3rd timings, RTLs, IO-Ls, Skews, Vref to fixed values based on experience. Few tweaks later it was stable.
> The only difference in timings presented for 4500 are:
> tWR=12 (tWRPRE=31)
> tRTP=8 (tRDPRE=8)
> tCWL=15
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2482374
> 
> 
> *4500 MHz 16-17-17-35T*
> After getting a stable 4400 and changing frequency to 4500 I could not event POST. It was obvious that I have to increase VDRAM, VCCIO and VCCSA, but even setting them much higher than it should require I could not POST. Solution:
> Increase Vref by 0.005x
> Set all signal slopes to 6 (range is 1-15) but, what is more important, set offsets for these slopes to 0.
> 
> Btw. this TM5 test shown here is just for your reference - I did much longer testing with TM5, Karhu, Prime95 before
> 
> 
> View attachment 2482373
> 
> 
> I am convinced that I can now work on reducing VDIMM, VCCIO and/or VCCSA slightly.
> 
> Road to 4600 is now open...


With my 10900K SP 88 I need 1.31V VCCIO and 1.36V VCCSA for 4533 16-17-17-36 on the Extreme, so maybe you can lower those valuestoo. VDIMM in my case is 1.53V (kit is in signature).
Also have you tried GSAT? It seems to be the most sensitive RAM test, especially to slopes. I finally managed to make it pass consistently, but I have to leave Memory Fast Boot on Auto: if I disable it, forcing retrainings at every boot, the board acts weirdly (like it passes 3 hours GSAT once, then on the following boot/retraining it fails after a few minutes). I don't know if you have touched this setting, but it would certainly be interesting to see if you can keep stability across retrainings.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> With my 10900K SP 88 I need 1.31V VCCIO and 1.36V VCCSA for 4533 16-17-17-36 on the Extreme, so maybe you can lower those valuestoo. VDIMM in my case is 1.53V (kit is in signature).
> Also have you tried GSAT? It seems to be the most sensitive RAM test, especially to slopes. I finally managed to make it pass consistently, but I have to leave Memory Fast Boot on Auto: if I disable it, forcing retrainings at every boot, the board acts weirdly (like it passes 3 hours GSAT once, then on the following boot/retraining it fails after a few minutes). I don't know if you have touched this setting, but it would certainly be interesting to see if you can keep stability across retrainings.


Yes, I used GSAT from bootable USB stick too. My 10900KF has SP 53 (sic!) So I don't think I can expect running so low VCCIO/VCCSA as on chip with SP 88...


----------



## Gen.

@7empe Can you share the 4400 CL16 spoiler settings here? I would be grateful.


----------



## 7empe

Gen. said:


> @7empe Can you share the 4400 CL16 spoiler settings here? I would be grateful.


Sure thing.










Vref for control signal 0.515x for both channels. 
Skews: 80-40-40
ODT latency and offsets: 2-2-2-2
Slopes: on auto works fine in my case


----------



## Gen.

I just did 4300 with auto odt and so on, but I can't do 4400. On the Z490 Tomahawk 4400 16-17-17-37 it was 1.530V, but I can't go to 1.55 on the Z490 Hero XII even serj. Now I set to check 16-18-18-38 at 1.550 Universal2 @ LMHz and everything is going well for the 3rd cycle. Has my memory started to work worse? I am far from the last person here and I am appreciated here, but I do not understand. I'm waiting for a new kit F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB, I ordered it yesterday on Newegg through an intermediary in Russia, and it will come to me in about a month. Now I have an F4-3000C14D-32GTZR Oct2020 and it was stable at 4400 16-17-17-37-2Т 1.530V and 4400 17-17-17-36-2Т 1.440V.

I will try to swap them and wipe the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.

Thank you for the tips, if anything, I'll try them as well.


----------



## Gen.

Could you show the TXT file here please?


----------



## AeonMW2

finally. 30 ns club  kinda..








read/write ~59000
copy ~55000

2x8 Vipers 4400 cl 19 @ 3900 15-16-16-33
vDIMM 1.49v
IO/SA 1.23v

what should I improve next at that frequency/voltage? cl14 seems to be impossible.
asrock timing configurator not working for me for some reason so only that (is there any good alternatives?)


----------



## robalm

Upgraded from z390 to z490. Same clock 5ghz all core and 4.6ghz cache.
Get **** ns now 

All settings about the same exept RTL that is incorrect. I can't set them lower, anyone know why?

*Z390*









*Z490*


----------



## YaqY

robalm said:


> Upgraded from z390 to z490. Same clock 5ghz all core and 4.6ghz cache.
> Get **** ns now
> 
> All settings about the same exept RTL that is incorrect. I can't set them lower, anyone know why?
> 
> *Z390*
> View attachment 2482453
> 
> 
> 
> *Z490*
> View attachment 2482454


Check your rtls and iols . Also what are you doing at 3200 on Z490.


----------



## robalm

YaqY said:


> Check your rtls and iols . Also what are you doing at 3200 on Z490.


Yes i have been trying to lower them but it will not boot.


----------



## YaqY

robalm said:


> Yes i have been trying to lower them but it will not boot.


Enable round trip latency it will tighten them, when trained well lock them in.


----------



## robalm

YaqY said:


> Enable round trip latency it will tighten them, when trained well lock them in.





YaqY said:


> Enable round trip latency it will tighten them, when trained well lock them in.


thanks alot for the tips got - 2.4 ns now 
not perfect a little missmatch D1 50 - 52 and D1 6 - 7, i don't know if it's a big deal?


----------



## Nizzen

Is sub 4400mhz memory legal on z490 🤔


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> With my 10900K SP 88 I need 1.31V VCCIO and 1.36V VCCSA for 4533 16-17-17-36 on the Extreme, so maybe you can lower those valuestoo. VDIMM in my case is 1.53V (kit is in signature).
> Also have you tried GSAT? It seems to be the most sensitive RAM test, especially to slopes. I finally managed to make it pass consistently, but I have to leave Memory Fast Boot on Auto: if I disable it, forcing retrainings at every boot, the board acts weirdly (like it passes 3 hours GSAT once, then on the following boot/retraining it fails after a few minutes). I don't know if you have touched this setting, but it would certainly be interesting to see if you can keep stability across retrainings.


It seems that missed to respond on your last part of the post. So, in case of 4400 every retraining is stable, I have “fast boot” disabled and “MCH full check” enabled. For 4500 I had similar experience as yours - one day ram is stable whole day, next day after cold boot and retraining there are errors in seconds or even there was no POST! (Q-code 55) What helped me was to set fixed slopes for dram signals. These are very unique for every board, sticks and frequency. I have (delay-offset) 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, 6-0. It works best for 4500, but for 4400 it is 7-1, 7-1, 7-1, 7-1...


----------



## Salve1412

7empe said:


> It seems that missed to respond on your last part of the post. So, in case of 4400 every retraining is stable, I have “fast boot” disabled and “MCH full check” enabled. For 4500 I had similar experience as yours - one day ram is stable whole day, next day after cold boot and retraining there are errors in seconds or even there was no POST! (Q-code 55) What helped me was to set fixed slopes for dram signals. These are very unique for every board, sticks and frequency. I have (delay-offset) 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, 6-0. It works best for 4500, but for 4400 it is 7-1, 7-1, 7-1, 7-1...


Thanks for your feedback! As I also said in previous posts in the thread I don't need any of these "advanced settings" (ODT, Slopes, Algorithms etc.) to be manually adjusted for 4400: the overclock is rock solid, even with forced retrainings due to Memory Fast Boot disabled. The inconsistency begins from 4500 on. For 4533 I've been using for a while (in combination with Vref multiplier 0.495 A and B, ODT 80-40-0 and two Memory Algorithms manually enabled) these Slopes values: 5-0-7-0-7-0-8-0-6-0-7-0-7-0-7-0, which GSAT seemed to like a lot, at least until yesterday, when I failed a GSAT run with a cluster of 8 errors after about 2H30m, having passed, previously in the same day, three runs of 3 hours each...I don't know, if you actually managed to get the 4500+ overclocks stable across multiple retrainings/power losses on this board I should probably rework my settings bercause it is indeed possible to do this.

Just for fun I tried 4600, altering only tREFI and RTLs while leaving Skews amd Vref untouched. I managed to do this:









But Anta failed with 1 error on the fourth iteration. I'm trying to make adjustments here and there, probably I'll have to modify the entire Skews/VRef block of settings.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> Thanks for your feedback! As I also said in previous posts in the thread I don't need any of these "advanced settings" (ODT, Slopes, Algorithms etc.) to be manually adjusted for 4400: the overclock is rock solid, even with forced retrainings due to Memory Fast Boot disabled. The inconsistency begins from 4500 on. For 4533 I've been using for a while (in combination with Vref multiplier 0.495 A and B, ODT 80-40-0 and two Memory Algorithms manually enabled) these Slopes values: 5-0-7-0-7-0-8-0-6-0-7-0-7-0-7-0, which GSAT seemed to like a lot, at least until yesterday, when I failed a GSAT run with a cluster of 8 errors after about 2H30m, having passed, previously in the same day, three runs of 3 hours each...I don't know, if you actually managed to get the 4500+ overclocks stable across multiple retrainings/power losses on this board I should probably rework my settings bercause it is indeed possible to do this.
> 
> Just for fun I tried 4600, altering only tREFI and RTLs while leaving Skews amd Vref untouched. I managed to do this:
> 
> View attachment 2482619
> 
> 
> But Anta failed with 1 error on the fourth iteration. I'm trying to make adjustments here and there, probably I'll have to modify the entire Skews/VRef block of settings.


Very intresting! Let me know please if you get 4600 fully stable.


----------



## heavyrain

7empe said:


> It seems that missed to respond on your last part of the post. So, in case of 4400 every retraining is stable, I have “fast boot” disabled and “MCH full check” enabled. For 4500 I had similar experience as yours - one day ram is stable whole day, next day after cold boot and retraining there are errors in seconds or even there was no POST! (Q-code 55) What helped me was to set fixed slopes for dram signals. These are very unique for every board, sticks and frequency. I have (delay-offset) 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, 6-0. It works best for 4500, but for 4400 it is 7-1, 7-1, 7-1, 7-1...


it maybe temperature？temperature can affect training


----------



## 7empe

heavyrain said:


> it maybe temperature？temperature can affect training


Nah, it is not temperature. Steady low ambient of 20 C during training. Cold hardware. It seems to happen most often when I do have RTLs/IO-Ls fixed but Round Trip Latency memory training algorithm remains enabled... My M12E uses bios v2004.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> Thanks for your feedback! As I also said in previous posts in the thread I don't need any of these "advanced settings" (ODT, Slopes, Algorithms etc.) to be manually adjusted for 4400: the overclock is rock solid, even with forced retrainings due to Memory Fast Boot disabled. The inconsistency begins from 4500 on. For 4533 I've been using for a while (in combination with Vref multiplier 0.495 A and B, ODT 80-40-0 and two Memory Algorithms manually enabled) these Slopes values: 5-0-7-0-7-0-8-0-6-0-7-0-7-0-7-0, which GSAT seemed to like a lot, at least until yesterday, when I failed a GSAT run with a cluster of 8 errors after about 2H30m, having passed, previously in the same day, three runs of 3 hours each...I don't know, if you actually managed to get the 4500+ overclocks stable across multiple retrainings/power losses on this board I should probably rework my settings bercause it is indeed possible to do this.
> 
> Just for fun I tried 4600, altering only tREFI and RTLs while leaving Skews amd Vref untouched. I managed to do this:
> 
> View attachment 2482619
> 
> 
> But Anta failed with 1 error on the fourth iteration. I'm trying to make adjustments here and there, probably I'll have to modify the entire Skews/VRef block of settings.


Can you show me what are your Slopes in case of 4500 and how do they change for 4533 and 4600? Also, do you have always the same ODT 80-40-0 for all frequencies? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Salve1412

7empe said:


> Can you show me what are your Slopes in case of 4500 and how do they change for 4533 and 4600? Also, do you have always the same ODT 80-40-0 for all frequencies? Thanks in advance!


The 4600 test I did was with the same slopes and Vref I used for 4533 (the values I wrote in my last post). ODT was also the same (80-40-0). The only things I changed were tREFI (slightly increased) and RTLs (from 63-63-64-64 to 64-64-65-65). And of course I increased VCCIO, VCCSA and DRAM voltage.

Once again I am experiencing inconsistency, though. Today I've been trying to increase voltages and even relax timings a bit in order to eliminate that Anta777 single error but the only result I've obtained so far is that now I can't pass 1usmus v3 anymore (see previous post), with single errors popping out randomly, even if I restore the exact same combination of timings and voltages as before. Of course it was just a fast attempt, so probably slopes, Vref etc. are not right for the frequency and would require a deeper look into them. Also 1.555V on RAM make sometimes temperature to rise above 40 °C during testing, so maybe I am also limited by this.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> The 4600 test I did was with the same slopes and Vref I used for 4533 (the values I wrote in my last post). ODT was also the same (80-40-0). The only things I changed were tREFI (slightly increased) and RTLs (from 63-63-64-64 to 64-64-65-65). And of course I increased VCCIO, VCCSA and DRAM voltage.
> 
> Once again I am experiencing inconsistency, though. Today I've been trying to increase voltages and even relax timings a bit in order to eliminate that Anta777 single error but the only result I've obtained so far is that now I can't pass 1usmus v3 anymore (see previous post), with single errors popping out randomly, even if I restore the exact same combination of timings and voltages as before. Of course it was just a fast attempt, so probably slopes, Vref etc. are not right for the frequency and would require a deeper look into them. Also 1.555V on RAM make sometimes temperature to rise above 40 °C during testing, so maybe I am also limited by this.


I’ve got the same inconsistencies with 4500 already... Temps are 39ish max, but sometimes errors pop out in anta777 immediately (errors 4 and 6 mostly), and after retraining I can go through all the test without an error. I have nothing more left on auto settings, so not sure what’s going on. Sometimes even training goes so bad that I cannot POST with code 55, and then it stucks every time I do the reboot, but reloading the same profile with exactly the same settings eliminates that issue. Maybe it’s something wrong with bios 2004, idk...


----------



## cstkl1

Kana Chan said:


> Are you watercooling these sticks?


sorry missed this.

djr dont need wc. so far seems fine dr up to 1.7v and SR up to 1.8v

some kits i found the heatsink was bad. they used double sided tape. yes. tape. 
changing to barrows/bkyski with minuspads, + tim. done.


----------



## Salve1412

In order to test the 4533MHz overclock in a way different than usual I played a bit the residuals game with LinX 0.9.10. For cooling/amp reasons I lowered Core to x48, Cache to x44, LLC to Level 4 and set Vcore to fixed 1.260V, leaving VCCIO and VCCSA unaltered from my complete (CPU+RAM) overclock. After some Slopes adjustments I managed to pass 20 iterations with matching residuals. Maybe a good indicator that I am on the right track.


----------



## 7empe

Hey, just a generic question, maybe some of you encountered such situation.

Changing tRFC. Are there any relations/dependecies to other timings (aside of tREFI)? 

For example, with dual rank 2x16GB 4500 MHz 16-17-17-36, I am quite ok with {tRFC 310, tREFI 65535}, but increasing tRFC to 340 throws errors in TM5 immediately. Similarly, decreasing tREFI with tRFC=310 seems to introduce instabilities.

Are there some equations for tRFC/tREFI I am simply missing?


----------



## FoVeS

Generic question as well. On a Z490 Tomahawk with a 10900k (5.2 / 4.9 @ 1.37v bios LLC4) with GSkill Trident DR 2x16 4300c16 tuned RAM (1.5v VDimm / 1.31 SA and IO).
I can post with 4400c17 and c18 but to get it stable on TM5 has proven to be somewhat difficult.
In terms of FPS gains between 4300 and 4400, is it worth the hassle for something where my main game is Warzone? I believe I'm limited by the Tomahawk but don't want to push it too hard for daily stability.


----------



## JoeRambo

FoVeS said:


> View attachment 2482825


Your tFAW is getting auto corrected by BIOS to 32 ( 4x RRD_S ), most tuners strive to run RRD_S @ 4 and fFAW @ 16.


----------



## FoVeS

JoeRambo said:


> Your tFAW is getting auto corrected by BIOS to 32 ( 4x RRD_S ), most tuners strive to run RRD_S @ 4 and fFAW @ 16.


Fixed. Also fixed RTL/IOL. Pushing 1.55v Vdimm, 1.35 SA, 1.31 IO and testing stability on 4400 c16. Is it worth the voltage increase to go from 4300 to 4400c16 for something like Warzone?


----------



## SunnyStefan

FoVeS said:


> Pushing 1.55v Vdimm, 1.35 SA, 1.31 IO [...] Is it worth the voltage increase to go from 4300 to 4400c16 for something like Warzone?


If you are not GPU bottlenecked in Warzone you can still gain performance by overclocking your RAM further, your minimum framerates will continue to increase linearly but don't expect a massive difference either.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the voltage values you listed are alarming or risky for B-Die on Z490. If you said your VDIMM / VCCIO / VCCSA was over 1.6v / 1.4v / 1.45v (respectively) then I might worry about potential IMC degradation, although even then some would argue it's a non-issue at these values. I think your voltages are conservative and you are leaving performance on the table. You still have headroom to increase all three of those voltage values further (assuming you can maintain stability and keep your temperature under control).


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## Imprezzion

I had some weirdness going on with 5.3 all core 5Ghz cache and 4400C17 RAM even tho they passed like 30+ hours of random stress tests. 0x05 application errors mostly in games.. 
I re-ran the TM5 test overnight and it had 1 error after finishing the test so I went back to my "old" profile and that seems fine. 

Only thing I don't like is having to run 1.60v DRAM for C15 on 4200 but yeah, they don't get really hot at just under 41c but it isn't summer yet either. Ambient is 19-20c now. Not 35c which it can be in the summer with my A/C off..


----------



## mouacyk

Imprezzion said:


> I had some weirdness going on with 5.3 all core 5Ghz cache and 4400C17 RAM even tho they passed like 30+ hours of random stress tests. 0x05 application errors mostly in games..
> I re-ran the TM5 test overnight and it had 1 error after finishing the test so I went back to my "old" profile and that seems fine.
> 
> Only thing I don't like is having to run 1.60v DRAM for C15 on 4200 but yeah, they don't get really hot at just under 41c but it isn't summer yet either. Ambient is 19-20c now. Not 35c which it can be in the summer with my A/C off..
> 
> View attachment 2482963


We all love high tREFI for better latency, but I do wonder if signal decay is what's causing your issues. When you run a stress test, there is very high throughput and memory is rewritten often enough to combat the decay. Games and applications can idle certain memory locations for the entire tREFI cycle, if logic doesn't touch them. Just a theory -- try halving or quartering your tREFI and see if the errors go away.


----------



## Thomas Cawley

Sorry if this is a dumb question but I’m baffled. I’m in the process of tightening timings on some 4000 tridents Z on a MSI Godlike Z490 board. When I go to check RTL’s and IOL’s on Asrock Timing Config. Whether I make a change or not they almost always change. Is it supposed to do this?


----------



## heavyrain

Thomas Cawley said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question but I’m baffled. I’m in the process of tightening timings on some 4000 tridents Z on a MSI Godlike Z490 board. When I go to check RTL’s and IOL’s on Asrock Timing Config. Whether I make a change or not they almost always change. Is it supposed to do this?


try fix mode and memory fastboot enable


----------



## satinghostrider

Guys, do you think I can improve this better?

My kit is F4-3600C16D.

Memory Voltage : 1.5V
SA : 1.3V
VCCIO : 1.3V
Motherboard : Z390 Aorus Master

TIA!


----------



## Imprezzion

satinghostrider said:


> Guys, do you think I can improve this better?
> 
> My kit is F4-3600C16D.
> 
> Memory Voltage : 1.5V
> SA : 1.3V
> VCCIO : 1.3V
> Motherboard : Z390 Aorus Master
> 
> TIA!
> 
> 
> View attachment 2483077


RTL and IO is very high. Drop to like 62/7 or 61/6, tWRRD_SG and DG to 29/24 respectively, tRFC can probably be more like 280-320 on this low of a memory frequency.


----------



## Falkentyne

7empe said:


> Hey, just a generic question, maybe some of you encountered such situation.
> 
> Changing tRFC. Are there any relations/dependecies to other timings (aside of tREFI)?
> 
> For example, with dual rank 2x16GB 4500 MHz 16-17-17-36, I am quite ok with {tRFC 310, tREFI 65535}, but increasing tRFC to 340 throws errors in TM5 immediately. Similarly, decreasing tREFI with tRFC=310 seems to introduce instabilities.
> 
> Are there some equations for tRFC/tREFI I am simply missing?


No one here knows the answer to this?


----------



## mouacyk

7empe said:


> Hey, just a generic question, maybe some of you encountered such situation.
> 
> Changing tRFC. Are there any relations/dependecies to other timings (aside of tREFI)?
> 
> For example, with dual rank 2x16GB 4500 MHz 16-17-17-36, I am quite ok with {tRFC 310, tREFI 65535}, but increasing tRFC to 340 throws errors in TM5 immediately. Similarly, decreasing tREFI with tRFC=310 seems to introduce instabilities.
> 
> Are there some equations for tRFC/tREFI I am simply missing?


Equations for JEDEC standards existed or DDR3. It was something like tRFC/tREFI = 3.33%. Somehow motherboards have been able to optimize away signal decay so well that we can increase tREFI to insane values.

This is also to say that going lower than the 3.33% standard is now a motherboard lottery.


----------



## satinghostrider

Imprezzion said:


> RTL and IO is very high. Drop to like 62/7 or 61/6, tWRRD_SG and DG to 29/24 respectively, tRFC can probably be more like 280-320 on this low of a memory frequency.


Thanks Sir!

But setting it to 29/24, the board still sets it back to 30/26 when I view it under Timing Configurator for some reason.
Also, tWRWR_sg I changed it to 7 after seeing some people mentioning it is better to set it to that instead of 6.
Dropped my tRFC down all the way to 280, awesome! Ran Memtest and no issues including setting tWRWR_sg to 7.

Also forgot to mention my TXP=6.

RTL/IOL I can't do much the Z390 Aorus Master is ****ty past 4000Mhz frequency for that. Anything else you think worth changing? Just fine-tuning to the best I can.

TIA!


----------



## Arni90

satinghostrider said:


> Thanks Sir!
> 
> But setting it to 29/24, the board still sets it back to 30/26 when I view it under Timing Configurator for some reason.
> Also, tWRWR_sg I changed it to 7 after seeing some people mentioning it is better to set it to that instead of 6.
> Dropped my tRFC down all the way to 280, awesome! Ran Memtest and no issues including setting tWRWR_sg to 7.
> 
> Also forgot to mention my TXP=6.
> 
> RTL/IOL I can't do much the Z390 Aorus Master is ****ty past 4000Mhz frequency for that. Anything else you think worth changing? Just fine-tuning to the best I can.
> 
> TIA!
> View attachment 2483105


You might want to test if 3866 MHz with proper RTL/IOL training outperforms the higher memory frequency at 4133 MHz


----------



## satinghostrider

Arni90 said:


> You might want to test if 3866 MHz with proper RTL/IOL training outperforms the higher memory frequency at 4133 MHz


I don't have a baseline timing for that. Do you have something I can start with? Thanks!


----------



## Arni90

satinghostrider said:


> I don't have a baseline timing for that. Do you have something I can start with? Thanks!


Lower primaries to 15-16-16-32
Reduce tRFC to 260

Then test the difference in games or benchmarks like Time Spy or Shadow of the Tomb Raider


----------



## Gregix

Soo
I did stupid thing(after giving my g.skillz to my son's PC) and bought another pair of Patriot Viper Steel 4400c19.
Can't make them work together with anything 4000+.
AND...new one are kinda different, at least taiphoon says that. Like, 1st pair had 27 FAW, 5 and 4 RRDS/L.
New one 48, 9 and 11. WR/NOM/PARK values set by bios are set on AUTO different too...
I think I could make em stable all together at say 3800c15, but...can't see the point.
I think I just return them, and stick to my proven 4100c15 setup on 1st pair. 16Gb for gaming only is plenty...and I can make them run 4400c18 too so...

I give em a try for one more day, but seeing 4000c15 training issues, weird inconsistency with aida64/gaming test results...ehhh. One more day, and they will probably go out.
Edit:
After swap them in banks(1st pack went to both closest to CPU slots) is somehow working now 4000c15 at reasonable 1.5V. Maybe it will go further, as was booting 4400c18 in earlier configuration.


----------



## L1ghtning_8

New to overclocking ram, I have a 10900k at 5.1 and my dram v is at 1.52, vccsa at 1.3, and vccio at 1.27
Is there anything I can do with my timings or anything else to increase ram performance specifically for gaming. Ram is bdie, gskill 32gb(4sticks) and it runs stable with these current timings.
The original xmp profile was 15-16-16-36 4000mhz at 1.5v. I tweaked a lot of the secondary timings and lowered the primary timings using the xmp profile as a reference.


----------



## 7empe

L1ghtning_8 said:


> New to overclocking ram, I have a 10900k at 5.1 and my dram v is at 1.52, vccsa at 1.3, and vccio at 1.27
> Is there anything I can do with my timings or anything else to increase ram performance specifically for gaming. Ram is bdie, gskill 32gb(4sticks) and it runs stable with these current timings.
> The original xmp profile was 15-16-16-36 4000mhz at 1.5v. I tweaked a lot of the secondary timings and lowered the primary timings using the xmp profile as a reference.
> View attachment 2483486


Did you try higher frequencies? For 4x8GB and these default XMP settings you should be able to achieve up to 4266C16 (if lucky with IMC, board and b-dies).

There is no point to get lower with read-to-read-dealy-long (tRRD_L) below 6. RDWR_* should work on 11, or 12. This will increase your copy throughput. Try to increase tREFI up to 65535 in steps. Did you narrow RTL/IO-L manually? With 4000 they should be something like 56/56/57/57 6/6/7/7. This will reduce latency slightly. Set tCKE to 0, TXP 4, PPD 0. Try RDRD_sg 7, WRWR_* 7. CWL did not want to post with 13? (CL-2 in general)?

Good luck, have fun!

Btw. With active sticks cooling you can go up to 1.55v. VCCSA 1.35 is safe, up to 1.40 should be safe, above 1.40-1.45 if you are braver, but would not stay there 24/7. VCCIO up to 1.35 is fine for daily, IMO (with 10th gen intel).


----------



## 7empe

Gregix said:


> Soo
> I did stupid thing(after giving my g.skillz to my son's PC) and bought another pair of Patriot Viper Steel 4400c19.
> Can't make them work together with anything 4000+.
> AND...new one are kinda different, at least taiphoon says that. Like, 1st pair had 27 FAW, 5 and 4 RRDS/L.
> New one 48, 9 and 11. WR/NOM/PARK values set by bios are set on AUTO different too...
> I think I could make em stable all together at say 3800c15, but...can't see the point.
> I think I just return them, and stick to my proven 4100c15 setup on 1st pair. 16Gb for gaming only is plenty...and I can make them run 4400c18 too so...
> 
> I give em a try for one more day, but seeing 4000c15 training issues, weird inconsistency with aida64/gaming test results...ehhh. One more day, and they will probably go out.
> Edit:
> After swap them in banks(1st pack went to both closest to CPU slots) is somehow working now 4000c15 at reasonable 1.5V. Maybe it will go further, as was booting 4400c18 in earlier configuration.


I had the same 4x8GB kit. I could run them at 3900C15 CR1 and 4100C16 CR2. Could boot up to 4266C16 but that was not 100% stable. Running 4400c18 with 4 sticks is mission impossible imo.


----------



## Cpfan1

How big is the difference between hero/strix e and apex in terms of memory oc? Is it 200 mhz high or less?


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan1 said:


> How big is the difference between hero/strix e and apex in terms of memory oc? Is it 200 mhz high or less?


It's the whole pakkage with Apex. Higher speeds, lower timings, lower rtl/iol. Everything is better. If 2x dimms is enough, there is no reason to buy anything else than Apex.

Love from Apex fanboy 😜


----------



## Gregix

Guys.
How reliable is what auto settings does in case of ODT, ie WR/NOM/PARK?
I mean, some sets like 80/40/48(my pick for SR patriots), but my MB sets them on auto like 80/0/0 AAND second channel like 80/0/240, in 2x8gb config(I gave up with 4x8, will return weaker set).

BTW couln't set my 1st sticks 4266 16 16 16 [email protected] took em out, moped with alcohol wipe, swaped in slots, now working same settings at 1.504...second cycle 1usmus...where befor was crash in 40secs.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Been using this settings for the past 3 months. No issues. 4500 16-17-17-32 1.595v 1.32v IO 1.33v SA.


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> Been using this settings for the past 3 months. No issues. 4500 16-17-17-32 1.595v 1.32v IO 1.33v SA.
> 
> View attachment 2483573


I see a few trade offs to get the io and sa down by sacrificing read, write and copy but it's probably for the best in the long run and not noticeable real world 
Edit: That may depend on what sticks you have also


----------



## SoldierRBT

munternet said:


> I see a few trade offs to get the io and sa down by sacrificing read, write and copy but it's probably for the best in the long run and not noticeable real world
> Edit: That may depend on what sticks you have also


I have the 4266C17 1.50v ripjaws stock heatsink. It may do tRDRD_dr/tWRRD_dr 5 but I haven’t tried. It refuses to do tRDWRs 10. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m still running them on air. Maybe on water they would do better. Also couldn’t stabilize 4600 16-17-17 same sub timings. It needed around 1.65v too hot for a 120mm fan.

Thanks for the skews and slopes guides. They helped me to lower IO/SA voltages.


----------



## munternet

SoldierRBT said:


> I have the 4266C17 1.50v ripjaws stock heatsink. It may do tRDRD_dr/tWRRD_dr 5 but I haven’t tried. It refuses to do tRDWRs 10. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m still running them on air. Maybe on water they would do better. Also couldn’t stabilize 4600 16-17-17 same sub timings. It needed around 1.65v too hot for a 120mm fan.
> 
> Thanks for the skews and slopes guides. They helped me to lower IO/SA voltages.


No problem
Yeah, same sticks 
I think I need about 1.58v dram for 4600c16 but my IO and SA are MUCH higher
I think the tWTR_s = 1 helps the Aida scores and lowering of other values but not sure what it does to the voltage requirements and temps
I recently upgraded the water cooling to a distro plate which is great and the ram temps only see a max of about 36°c
Don't know if it's worth the risk of skinning the ram as you already have great results but if you are doing it anyway I think peeling them from the top down works best
Been a few people rip the chips off
Have been running this profile for a few months now and going strong
Aida results are 71,585 MB/s 71,358 MB/s 70,385 MB/s 34.8 ns







This is the new distro plate, which needed some tinkering to fit in this case


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> I see a few trade offs to get the io and sa down by sacrificing read, write and copy but it's probably for the best in the long run and not noticeable real world
> Edit: That may depend on what sticks you have also


Mind if I ask why you run 32 tRAS? Isn't that against any known rule for tRAS having to be tCL+tRCD+1 or 2?


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> Mind if I ask why you run 32 tRAS? Isn't that against any known rule for tRAS having to be tCL+tRCD+1 or 2?


I'm actually running 36, which goes against that rule but I was also wondering why @SoldierRBT was running 32


----------



## Ivan B.

Hi, my tRAS  
I've been using it for half a year


----------



## Gregix

So, I end up with this. Not sure if I stay witch 4300c16, but it looks nice. 4266c16 seems proven, at a bit less Dram voltage. 
Dunno yet, should I try lower tRAS and tRFC a bit? Anyway, I checked yesterday 4266 at gaming, and was noticeable better than my previous 4*8Gb 4000c15 or 2x16Gb 3800c14 setups, so now I will check 4300, then maybe fiddle with tRAS and so one.


----------



## Imprezzion

munternet said:


> I'm actually running 36, which goes against that rule but I was also wondering why @SoldierRBT was running 32


I mean, on my 4200 15-17-17 profile I run 34 normally but it is stable at 28 it just doesn't do anything for performance as far as I know as the board assigns a random higher number right?


----------



## munternet

Imprezzion said:


> I mean, on my 4200 15-17-17 profile I run 34 normally but it is stable at 28 it just doesn't do anything for performance as far as I know as the board assigns a random higher number right?


You know as much as I do 
I just find a little bit higher than recommended makes it a shade more stable to be able to push a little more
I've never left it on auto


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

I believe if you go too low on TRAS there is a penalty even if it is stable because of memory correction, so ideally trcd*2 is the lowest you can go without penalty on read/write/copy/latency some boards will just throw errors other will auto correct TRAS


----------



## 7empe

Finally got there where I wanted to be with my 2x16 4000C16 Trident Z RGB dual rank sticks.









4500 CL16









4533 CL16

Cheers!


----------



## Gregix

Nice one...

BTW, 1 error I antaextreme is something worrying about, or I can just risk and use it anyway?
It is one error in 1.5h test. Not snowing errors in like 10-30secs sometimes in Ollie, but one...^^


----------



## 7empe

Gregix said:


> Nice one...
> 
> BTW, 1 error I antaextreme is something worrying about, or I can just risk and use it anyway?
> It is one error in 1.5h test. Not snowing errors in like 10-30secs sometimes in Ollie, but one...^^


What is the error number?


----------



## Gregix

It is 8.


----------



## 7empe

Gregix said:


> It is 8.


Try to add 5 or 10 mV to VDIMM.


----------



## Gregix

Point is, I lowered VDIMM as at higher voltage it erroed ealier, in Ollie. And can only do 10mV increments. 
Bumped SA/IO by 20mV and will see. So far it passed said 8 test 2 times in first cycle.
Maybe just my CPU doesn't like 46 uncore ratio. Or maybe this is still some ODT problem.


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> Finally got there where I wanted to be with my 2x16 4000C16 Trident Z RGB dual rank sticks.
> 
> View attachment 2483908
> 
> 4500 CL16
> 
> View attachment 2483909
> 
> 4533 CL16
> 
> Cheers!


Nice results. Good low voltages 
Just wondering, did you pass GSAT? Seems to be the important test for system corruption.



Gregix said:


> Point is, I lowered VDIMM as at higher voltage it erroed ealier, in Ollie. And can only do 10mV increments.
> Bumped SA/IO by 20mV and will see. So far it passed said 8 test 2 times in first cycle.
> Maybe just my CPU doesn't like 46 uncore ratio. Or maybe this is still some ODT problem.


Any idea what temp your sticks are?


----------



## Gregix

munternet said:


> Nice results. Good low voltages
> Just wondering, did you pass GSAT? Seems to be the important test for system corruption.
> 
> 
> Any idea what temp your sticks are?


Well, wild guess will be around 40 while stress. G.skills [email protected]@1.544V max temp was 38.3 at, where MB temp was 27. It same environment so...
I am just testing now, another set of timings at 4300c16 and with higher Voltage(1.536V), and so far so good, so maybe there was just some timing mismatch. I was running this sticks half year with 1.536V at 4100c15, so even more tight than now or 3800c14.
It was probably some mismatch, at some instances while TM5 Ollie I had system freez. Or once extreme anta went trough 2 cycles, and hang on 3rd, time was running, tests not....


----------



## Imprezzion

I noticed tests tend to keep running but stop loading the CPU if I (accidentally) open up another app that uses too much RAM like a browser or something. Hell, even opening AsRock Timing Configurator made my tests not load up once and I didn't see that for 3 hours lol..


----------



## 7empe

munternet said:


> Nice results. Good low voltages
> Just wondering, did you pass GSAT? Seems to be the important test for system corruption.


Thanks.
TM5 1usmus_v3 (25 cycles), TM5 anta777 (3 cycles), GSAT 3h, Prime95 112-112k noAVX FFTs 1h, Karhu 10000% - passed.
I can boot 4600C16 and 4666C17 but to reach stability I need to push ridiculous voltages so no deal with that.


----------



## munternet

7empe said:


> Thanks.
> TM5 1usmus_v3 (25 cycles), TM5 anta777 (3 cycles), GSAT 3h, Prime95 112-112k noAVX FFTs 1h, Karhu 10000% - passed.
> I can boot 4600C16 and 4666C17 but to reach stability I need to push ridiculous voltages so no deal with that.


Looks pretty stable 
When you say ridiculous do you mean like mine


----------



## Gregix

I went a sleep, extreeme was ok, so I just turned off PC, so no result with error free ss.
But it is stable now.


----------



## Cpfan1

Anyone here has the experience with z490i ultra? Im planning on getting z590i ultra for memory overclocking purposes since apex iii will be two times as expensive as z590i ultra. I wonder if its a good overclocker or i should look for something else.


----------



## robalm

Hi guys!

Looking to upgrade my old B-die g skill flare x F4-3200C14D-16GFX-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd..
I have found a few i think is good, this kit looks great i think








F4-3600C15D-16GTZ-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


G.SKILL




www.gskill.com




or this kit





Viper Steel DDR4 Performance Memory | Best RAM For Gaming


Patriot Memory’s Viper Steel memory modules are designed with true performance in mind. Built for the latest Intel® and AMD™ platforms. Shop today.




viper.patriotmemory.com




What do you guys think?
The problem is that i use a noctua nh-d15 so i think i need to remove heat spreader to fit the 140mm fan, so a low profile whould be the best but i can't find any.


----------



## Ivan B.

Hello, for interest.I tested the game Shadow of the Tomb Raider with 800x600 on low settings. My GTX 1070 has the same score as my friend's RX 6800


----------



## 7empe

Ivan B. said:


> Hello, for interest.I tested the game Shadow of the Tomb Raider with 800x600 on low settings. My GTX 1070 has the same score as my friend's RX 6800
> 
> View attachment 2484063
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2484064


With 800x600 you are CPU not GPU limited.


----------



## robertr1

Re-testing after a long time to make sure things are still stable on all fronts.


----------



## Gregix

robertr1 said:


> Re-testing after a long time to make sure things are still stable on all fronts.


Too low tWR can lead to performance degrade. Test it in some games/applications.


----------



## zhrooms

@newls1 Hey, can you share the SPD reading in *Thaiphoon Burner* on your *G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4-3600 14-15-15-35 @ 1.45V* sticks, please?

*F4-3600C14D-32GVK* (Ripjaws V)
*F4-3600C14D-32GTZR* (Trident Z RGB)
*F4-3600C14D-32GTZN* (Trident Z Neo)
*F4-3600C14D-32GTRS* (Trident Z Royal Silver RGB)
*F4-3600C14D-32GTRG* (Trident Z Royal Gold RGB)

Here's my F4-4000C17D-32GVKB (Ripjaws V) kit, part number says 16 because it only reads one stick at a time, with further information in the SPD field, *48 FAW*, *4 RRD_S*, *10 RRD_L*








The above SPD reading should apply to all four of these kits below*;*
*F4-4000C17D-32GVKB *(Ripjaws V)
*F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB *(Trident Z RGB)
*F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB *(Trident Z Royal Silver)
*F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB *(Trident Z Royal Gold)









The above SPD reading should apply to all four of these kits below*;
F4-4266C17D-32GVKB* (Ripjaws V)
*F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB* (Trident Z RGB)
*F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB* (Trident Z Royal Silver)
*F4-4266C17D-32GTRGB* (Trident Z Royal Gold)

All these _sets_ (see below, 3600, 4000, 4266) should be identical, when it comes to overclocking, they just ship with a different XMP loaded from the manufacturer, for example the 4266 kits run higher frequency than 4000 but at a higher voltage (and remember, it's actually running 2133, so 0.1V for an extra 133MHz), the 3600 kits are mainly aimed at weaker systems and AMD since they included a Neo kit in that set. I've talked to and seen a few people with these sticks and results vary, *as is expected*, people push different timings, different boards like Z370 versus Z490, it's incredibly difficult to say if the 4266 ones overclock any better on average than the 3600 kits, I highly doubt they do, at the same time very few people have these sticks, still out of stock in most places, so we will probably never know, since DDR5 is around the corner.

*G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4-3600 14-15-15-35 @ 1.45V (Ripjaws, Neo, RGB, Silver, Gold)
G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4-4000 17-18-18-38 @ 1.40V (Ripjaws, RGB, Silver, Gold)
G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4-4266 17-18-18-38 @ 1.50V (Ripjaws, RGB, Silver, Gold)*


----------



## robalm

I think i will kepp my old ram. I have been thinking about upgrade to 4000mhz cl 17 1.35v. But i can overclock my 3200mhz cl 14 to 4000mhz cl 17 1.38v.
Get good result i think, is there any setting that look wrong?


----------



## The Pook

robalm said:


> I think i will kepp my old ram. I have been thinking about upgrade to 4000mhz cl 17 1.35v. But i can overclock my 3200mhz cl 14 to 4000mhz cl 17 1.38v.
> Get good result i think, is there any setting that look wrong?
> View attachment 2484252


looks fine to me but you could try to lower tWTR_L/S and tWRRD_dg/sg, they're a bit high for 4000. 

I'm at 7/4 and 27/24 @ 4133.


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

robalm said:


> I think i will kepp my old ram. I have been thinking about upgrade to 4000mhz cl 17 1.35v. But i can overclock my 3200mhz cl 14 to 4000mhz cl 17 1.38v.
> Get good result i think, is there any setting that look wrong?
> View attachment 2484252


1.38v is pretty weak tbh and you should be able to do a lot better than that, if that’s 3200c14 bdie just shove 1.5v into it see where the frequency cap is for your board at 16-16-32-1.5v, set TCWL-16, twr-16, TrTP-8, TRRD_s/L -4/6, TFAW-24, TRDRD_sg/dg- 7/4, TWRWR_sg/dg- 7/4, TRDWR_sg/dg- 12, TWRRD_sg/dg 31/26. Trfc-360, TREFI 46000. 
once you find highest frequency, then you can tune a little from there on like drop TFAW to 16, work TWR down to 10 usually is lowest but TRDWR is usually the lowest TWR increases performance by so try for 10 but if they only do 12 run them both 12, trdrd/twrwr can go 6/4 do them separate not together because sometimes twrwr doesn’t do 6/4. Last work on trfc and then max trefi out 65535
You can try tcwl-14 and also 1/6 for twtr_s/l controlled by TWRRD. When you change tcwl it will change twr,twrrd.
After you find max performance you can work voltage down till errors. Have fun look forward to seeing a solid 4200c16


----------



## Falkentyne

MericaShotUrAss said:


> 1.38v is pretty weak tbh and you should be able to do a lot better than that, if that’s 3200c14 bdie just shove 1.5v into it see where the frequency cap is for your board at 16-16-32-1.5v, set TCWL-16, twr-16, TrTP-8, TRRD_s/L -4/6, TFAW-24, TRDRD_sg/dg- 7/4, TWRWR_sg/dg- 7/4, TRDWR_sg/dg- 12, TWRRD_sg/dg 31/26. Trfc-360, TREFI 46000.
> once you find highest frequency, then you can tune a little from there on like drop TFAW to 16, work TWR down to 10 usually is lowest but TRDWR is usually the lowest TWR increases performance by so try for 10 but if they only do 12 run them both 12, trdrd/twrwr can go 6/4 do them separate not together because sometimes twrwr doesn’t do 6/4. Last work on trfc and then max trefi out 65535
> You can try tcwl-14 and also 1/6 for twtr_s/l controlled by TWRRD. When you change tcwl it will change twr,twrrd.
> After you find max performance you can work voltage down till errors. Have fun look forward to seeing a solid 4200c16


Worth noting that just because he has b-die doesn't mean he can clock it high. Also depends on how old the sticks are.
My 2018 year gskill 3200 2x16 GB C14 sticks couldn't do past 3733 CL17 in a Z390 Aorus Master at all, and couldn't do past 3866 mhz in a Z490 Maximus 12 Extreme CL19 stable. While 4000 C19 booted windows it was literally impossible to fully stabilize even with very loose timings, and making it not worth it whatsoever vs 3733 with tights. My 2020 year sticks (exact same gskill part number except newer PCB code and date code) can do 4400 16/17/37 stable with some work and skews. So just because something is b-die doesn't mean it's GOOD b-die.


----------



## r0l4n

zhrooms said:


> @newls1 Hey, can you share the SPD reading in *Thaiphoon Burner* on your *G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4-3600 14-15-15-35 @ 1.45V* sticks, please?


I've just got the Ripjaws V kit, I might as well chip in. See attachment.

Curently having temperature issues, at XMP they are reaching 55-60C, in a well ventilated case, running TM5 while mining (RTX 3080, 205W). XMP holds stability, but I don't have much headroom to overclock.


----------



## robalm

Can this really be Samsung B-die? (16-19-19).


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/MQkgXL/gskill-ripjaws-v-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-4000-cl16-memory-f4-4000c16d-16gvk


----------



## KedarWolf

SKU 
*B-Die guaranteed!*
G.Skill Ripjaws V black / 4000C16 8ns / 16GB 2 sticks SR

b-die finder website.


----------



## robalm

KedarWolf said:


> SKU
> *B-Die guaranteed!*
> G.Skill Ripjaws V black / 4000C16 8ns / 16GB 2 sticks SR
> 
> b-die finder website.


ye i found it on d-die finder website but i have never seen 16-19-19 on b-die.
This is the same kit but with 17-18-18 maybe i should get that one?


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qfWBD3/


----------



## robalm

I won the lottery 
Got a new B-die kit (same as my old kit) F4-3200C14D-16GFX-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
This kit is soooooo mutch better then my old 

My old kit did:
3200mhz cl14 at 1.35v working
3300mhz c14 at 1.35v BSOD when loading windows
3330mhz cl14 at 1.35 fail to post

New kit
3200mhz cl14 at 1.35v working
3300mhz c14 at 1.35v working
3330mhz cl14 at 1.35 working
3400mhz cl14 at 1.35 working
3466mhz cl14 at 1.35 working but unstable
3500mhz cl14 at 1.36 working but sure it's unstable


----------



## 646218

1 Hour OCCT large avx2 ddr4-4400 16-16-16-34 w/9900K


----------



## sultanofswing

So I got some new RAM today and started messing around with it.
The kit is the Patriot Viper 4400's. Confirmed all sticks are B-Die.
Right now have voltage in BIOS set to 1.45, Wondering if anyone might have any suggestions to get them a little better.
Running the Ram at 4000 intentionally, these settings seem to pass TM5 Extreme config without issues.


----------



## 646218

sultanofswing said:


> So I got some new RAM today and started messing around with it.
> The kit is the Patriot Viper 4400's. Confirmed all sticks are B-Die.
> Right now have voltage in BIOS set to 1.45, Wondering if anyone might have any suggestions to get them a little better.
> Running the Ram at 4000 intentionally, these settings seem to pass TM5 Extreme config without issues.


Try to go higher in frequency. I can't imagine you got a new ram kit to run c16-4000 when your old ram kit ran c16-4000, nom sayin? Sick bandwidth yo.


----------



## alexbrad

my 2x16 kit tuned a bit as follows, 4000C19D-16GTZKK, VRAM 1.45V, VCCIO 1.26V, VCCSA 1.30V set in bios, 16-16-16-36, tXP 4 & PPD 0, did not insisted a lot on tertiary timings saw no day & night boost performance, focused on trfc and trefi, last one did not want to max it out


----------



## SunnyStefan

sultanofswing said:


> So I got some new RAM today and started messing around with it.
> The kit is the Patriot Viper 4400's. Confirmed all sticks are B-Die.
> Right now have voltage in BIOS set to 1.45, Wondering if anyone might have any suggestions to get them a little better.
> Running the Ram at 4000 intentionally, these settings seem to pass TM5 Extreme config without issues.


Have you tried any frequencies above *4000 MHz* yet? *VCCIO* / *VCCSA* on *auto* or manually configured?

My recommendation:

Increase frequency to *4100* / *4133 MHz*
Increase* tRCD* & *tRP* from *15* to *16* (this change will increase your odds of maintaining stability)
Increase *tRFC* to *300*-*350* (this can easily be tightened later, raise it for now to eliminate a potential roadblock)
If you struggle to post after implementing these changes, try increasing your *command rate* from *1T* to *2T*.
At some point you will have to decide between running *1T* with a _lower_ frequency or *2T* with a _higher_ frequency, the latter of which usually performs better.


----------



## sultanofswing

Thanks guys, I may try higher frequencies over the weekend, Being X299 with 4 dimms it might be pushing it but I'll give it a shot.


----------



## SunnyStefan

sultanofswing said:


> Thanks guys, I may try higher frequencies over the weekend, Being X299 with 4 dimms it might be pushing it but I'll give it a shot.


1T command rate is extremely ambitious and will likely hold you back. On the other hand, 1T is definitely the sexiest ram timing if you can manage it.


----------



## sultanofswing

SunnyStefan said:


> 1T command rate is extremely ambitious and will likely hold you back. On the other hand, 1T is definitely the sexiest ram timing if you can manage it.


Yea I could not run 1T command rate with my old kit and wanted to try it with this new kit and so far it's fine.
Also to answer your previous questionI have all my voltages manually configured to include VCCIO/VSA and Uncore which makes the biggest difference in my setup for memory and mesh bus stability.


----------



## 646218

sultanofswing said:


> Yea I could not run 1T command rate with my old kit and wanted to try it with this new kit and so far it's fine.
> Also to answer your previous questionI have all my voltages manually configured to include VCCIO/VSA and Uncore which makes the biggest difference in my setup for memory and mesh bus stability.


If you can get c15-4000 1T you are looking at sub 50ns aida latency. Might need more vdimm though to make that happen. I did a little bit of digging, so far the highest ram oc i've seen on that chip is 4100 though i didn't browse everywhere. Bet you could prob get c16-4100 but at 2T, hell maybe even 4133. Interested to see how it goes, not a lot of x299 results floating around these days. If you wouldn't mind giving us an update on how things go that would cool, if not no biggie.


----------



## robalm

Not bad result with my new kit (with only 1.36 dramvoltage)
Kit can boot to windows @4400mhz cl17 at 1.4v.


----------



## satinghostrider

Guys,

I'm getting an error on Kahru RAMTEST at 425% coverage.

VDIMM : 1.52V
SA&IO: 1.3V

Any help to stabilise that error out? Temps are 35 degrees max.

Thanks!


----------



## Imprezzion

satinghostrider said:


> View attachment 2484910
> Guys,
> 
> I'm getting an error on Kahru RAMTEST at 425% coverage.
> 
> VDIMM : 1.52V
> SA&IO: 1.3V
> 
> Any help to stabilise that error out? Temps are 35 degrees max.
> 
> Thanks!


Run 16-17-17, run 300 tRFC with ~32000 or 48000 tREFI, run better IO-L and RTL and tune the ODT's a bit like 80-40-40 or whatever works for you.


----------



## satinghostrider

Imprezzion said:


> Run 16-17-17, run 300 tRFC with ~32000 or 48000 tREFI, run better IO-L and RTL and tune the ODT's a bit like 80-40-40 or whatever works for you.


Ok this works very well now!
Can't tune my IOLs and RTL's as the Master sucks above 3900Mhz to do that. I will make do with this.

Thanks!!!


----------



## 646218

satinghostrider said:


> View attachment 2484910
> Guys,
> 
> I'm getting an error on Kahru RAMTEST at 425% coverage.
> 
> VDIMM : 1.52V
> SA&IO: 1.3V
> 
> Any help to stabilise that error out? Temps are 35 degrees max.
> 
> Thanks!


tRTP/tWR = 6/12 or 7/14 or 8/16. You have 8/10, could be the reason for error. Might be able to do 16-16-16-34 with tRTP/tWR changes.


----------



## menko2

robalm said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Looking to upgrade my old B-die g skill flare x F4-3200C14D-16GFX-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd..
> I have found a few i think is good, this kit looks great i think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-3600C15D-16GTZ-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> G.SKILL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Viper Steel DDR4 Performance Memory | Best RAM For Gaming
> 
> 
> Patriot Memory’s Viper Steel memory modules are designed with true performance in mind. Built for the latest Intel® and AMD™ platforms. Shop today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> viper.patriotmemory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think?
> The problem is that i use a noctua nh-d15 so i think i need to remove heat spreader to fit the 140mm fan, so a low profile whould be the best but i can't find any.


I have the 3600mhz 15-15-15-35.

Now tweaking it. At the moment I get this:


----------



## MericaShotUrAss

satinghostrider said:


> Ok this works very well now!
> Can't tune my IOLs and RTL's as the Master sucks above 3900Mhz to do that. I will make do with this.
> 
> Thanks!!!
> View attachment 2484913


Try a spacing of (5) on twtr, so 1/6,2/7,3/8,


----------



## Ivan B.

Hi, i have a question. What is DMI voltage (VCCMP) for? 0.4V and is still stable. I'm experimenting with voltage


----------



## robalm

I can do low TCWL, should i go as low that i can or should it match the CL?


----------



## aznguyen316

Hello,

Figured I'd post here about the RAM kit I've been using for the past several months on a 10700k/10900K and now an 11700K. Hopefully someone will find this useful if this comes up in google search.

kit: G.Skill F4-3200C15-16GTZKW (3200-15-15-35 1.35V) 2x16GB B-Die kit (May 2019 sticker)

The best I've gotten this kit to run was thanks to the Z490 Unify having some preset timings as I was not able to get many typical timings to be stable in karhu. Finally was able to get 4000C17-19-39 @ 1.45V; 1.22V IO/SA stable and it's been good for months on a 10900K. The same timings on a Asus Z590 Hero XIII work as well, and I've tightened a few sub timings as well and ran karhu test. Any other minor tweaks like 17-19-38 or 17-17-39 result in error..

I think asrock timing config might be a little borked for Z590? I haven't spent enough time trying to figure out the best 1:1 gear for Rocket Lake, as I can boot 3600-16-16-36 but karhu gives an error around 500%. 3733 doesn't boot at 1:1. So I figured I'd just run the 4000C17 that's been rock solid at 1:2.

Z490 Unify 10700K:










Z590 Maximus Hero XIII 11700K










24/7 stable. Wish I could get it up to 4266 stable, I've gotten it to boot once at 1.5v, 1.35V IO/ 1.25VSA but did not pass karhu at similar subtimings at 4000MT 1:2.

1:1 mode on Rocket Lake some reason is tricky for me to get the primaries to boot and then if booted then stable. Most people are running 1:2 so just waiting on more 1:1 voltages and timings.


----------



## munternet

robalm said:


> I can do low TCWL, should i go as low that i can or should it match the CL?
> View attachment 2485254


You see those 4 13's on the right? They will probably be able to be lowered with tCWL higher, maybe 15 or 16, but do your own testing and see how it effects other settings and performance too


----------



## robalm

munternet said:


> You see those 4 13's on the right? They will probably be able to be lowered with tCWL higher, maybe 15 or 16, but do your own testing and see how it effects other settings and performance too


Thanks alot for the info 

I would also like to ask about vccio and vccsa.
How do you guys stresstest to get your needed vccio and vccsa?


----------



## munternet

robalm said:


> Thanks alot for the info
> 
> I would also like to ask about vccio and vccsa.
> How do you guys stresstest to get your needed vccio and vccsa?


GSAT is a good test for that. There is a link in my sig to install it to windows or run it from a USB
Too low on the vccio will cause a freeze or crash and too low on the vccsa will cause errors. It is also a good tool to help set vdimm
Used with TM5 will cover most of the bases and there are some other useful links there too


----------



## 646218

Hello friends. Posting some test data. 32gb(4x8GB) 9900K. Must continue to work.


----------



## Falkentyne

aznguyen316 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Figured I'd post here about the RAM kit I've been using for the past several months on a 10700k/10900K and now an 11700K. Hopefully someone will find this useful if this comes up in google search.
> 
> kit: G.Skill F4-3200C15-16GTZKW (3200-15-15-35 1.35V) 2x16GB B-Die kit (May 2019 sticker)
> 
> The best I've gotten this kit to run was thanks to the Z490 Unify having some preset timings as I was not able to get many typical timings to be stable in karhu. Finally was able to get 4000C17-19-39 @ 1.45V; 1.22V IO/SA stable and it's been good for months on a 10900K. The same timings on a Asus Z590 Hero XIII work as well, and I've tightened a few sub timings as well and ran karhu test. Any other minor tweaks like 17-19-38 or 17-17-39 result in error..
> 
> I think asrock timing config might be a little borked for Z590? I haven't spent enough time trying to figure out the best 1:1 gear for Rocket Lake, as I can boot 3600-16-16-36 but karhu gives an error around 500%. 3733 doesn't boot at 1:1. So I figured I'd just run the 4000C17 that's been rock solid at 1:2.
> 
> Z490 Unify 10700K:
> View attachment 2485311
> 
> 
> 
> Z590 Maximus Hero XIII 11700K
> 
> View attachment 2485310
> 
> 
> 24/7 stable. Wish I could get it up to 4266 stable, I've gotten it to boot once at 1.5v, 1.35V IO/ 1.25VSA but did not pass karhu at similar subtimings at 4000MT 1:2.
> 
> 1:1 mode on Rocket Lake some reason is tricky for me to get the primaries to boot and then if booted then stable. Most people are running 1:2 so just waiting on more 1:1 voltages and timings.



http://picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/asrock/AsrTCSetup(v4.0.8).rar


----------



## mpbrown2020

I have the 2 following GSkill RAM kits

1) F4-3600C16D-16GTZSW
2) F4-4400C19D-16GTZSW

I plan to use these with Rocket Lake i7-11700k with an ASUS Prime Z590-A motherboard.

I don't really care about overclocking except for the XMP settings. Which one of the kits would be faster overall for everyday use. I don't game also.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## 646218

Testing update:
32gb(4x8) 9900k 47cores 43ring ht off


----------



## menko2

Falkentyne said:


> http://picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/asrock/AsrTCSetup(v4.0.8).rar


One quick question for gaming at 4k (i know gpu is the most important thing).

My system is z590 maximus hero xiii, 10900k sp92 @5.1ghz 1.31v LL5. 3090 KINGPIN.

I have g.skill b die kit 2x8gb 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 1.35. Single rank. Tweaked i get to the screenshot i attach.

I'm looking for this kit dual rank: 
2x16gb 4000mhz CL16-19-19-39 @1,40v.
*F4-4000C16D-32GTZR*

Do you think I can get any gain upgrading to a 32gb dual rank kit for gaming? I'll tweak it as well.


----------



## Imprezzion

Not noticably unless you fill your RAM now and it has to use page file.


----------



## Internetgeeks

I just wanted to know which is the best motherboard with WiFi? Asking here because I found the best knowledge here.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Do VPPDDR and DMI voltages help for RAM OC stability? What settings should I use? I currently have both of them on auto.


----------



## robalm

Can someone help me out with TM5 [email protected] config?
It use to mutch ram, look at the load on the C: drive (pagefile?)
I have changed "Testing Window Size (Mb) down to 600mb but still the same problem

Channels=2
Interleave Type=1
Single DIMM width, bits=64
Operation Block, byts=64
Testing Window Size (Mb)=600
Lock Memory Granularity (Mb)=16
Reserved Memory for Windows (Mb)=128
Capable=0x0
Debug Level=7


----------



## jeiselramos

satinghostrider said:


> Ok this works very well now!
> Can't tune my IOLs and RTL's as the Master sucks above 3900Mhz to do that. I will make do with this.
> 
> Thanks!!!
> View attachment 2484913


what program do you use to stress the cpu?


----------



## satinghostrider

jeiselramos said:


> what program do you use to stress the cpu?


Prime 95 small FFTs. Usually I run P95 after my quick and dirty testing via Intel Burn Test.


----------



## jeiselramos

satinghostrider said:


> Prime 95 small FFTs. Usually I run P95 after my quick and dirty testing via Intel Burn Test.


26.6 or higher? i have 9900ks but with 4 dimm it can't clock 5.2


----------



## satinghostrider

jeiselramos said:


> 26.6 or higher? i have 9900ks but with 4 dimm it can't clock 5.2


I'm on water-cooling and 4 DIMMS of what memory? P95 can't remember which version it was but definitely higher than 26.6. It was actually 30 something.


----------



## jeiselramos

satinghostrider said:


> I'm on water-cooling and 4 DIMMS of what memory? P95 can't remember which version it was but definitely higher than 26.6. It was actually 30 something.


i have too. Gskill F4-4000C17D-32GTRS


----------



## satinghostrider

jeiselramos said:


> i have too. Gskill F4-4000C17D-32GTRS


Not sure if those are B-Dies but it also depends heavily on what board and bios version you're on as well.


----------



## jeiselramos

satinghostrider said:


> Not sure if those are B-Dies but it also depends heavily on what board and bios version you're on as well.


Yes, I do 4300 16-17-17-17-35 trfc300 stable on TM5 anta777. but when i push the memory the cpu suck in core overclock.


----------



## menko2

jeiselramos said:


> Yes, I do 4300 16-17-17-17-35 trfc300 stable on TM5 anta777. but when i push the memory the cpu suck in core overclock.


Looks good for a dual rank kit. It's samsung B-die that kit.

What voltage do you put to the ram? Can you take Aida screenshot?


----------



## jeiselramos

menko2 said:


> Looks good for a dual rank kit. It's samsung B-die that kit.
> 
> What voltage do you put to the ram? Can you take Aida screenshot?


It was only OC RAM without OC core and cache/ring


----------



## SunnyStefan

jeiselramos said:


> It was only OC RAM without OC core and cache/ring


4300 MHz @ CL 16 with 4 dimms is no easy feat on the Z390 platform, bravo.
An aggressive memory overclock will limit your CPU overclocking potential, but even still, you should be able to push your CPU much further.


----------



## jeiselramos

SunnyStefan said:


> 4300 MHz @ CL 16 with 4 dimms is no easy feat on the Z390 platform, bravo.
> An aggressive memory overclock will limit your CPU overclocking potential, but even still, you should be able to push your CPU much further.


One of this day i Will try to overclock cpu much further if i can


----------



## mouacyk

jeiselramos said:


> One of this day i Will try to overclock cpu much further if i can


Is it 4 or 2 dimms?


----------



## Satanello

I received a new 32Gb memory kit that seem very interesting; this is my best clock during first attempts of "raw" overclocking just to see how far I can go (only stable for light benchmark).
@cstkl1 many thanks for the tip!


----------



## munternet

Satanello said:


> I received a new 32Gb memory kit that seem very interesting; this is my best clock during first attempts of "raw" overclocking just to see how far I can go (only stable for light benchmark).
> @cstkl1 many thanks for the tip!
> 
> View attachment 2485771


Sweet  
What voltages did you require for that?


----------



## Satanello

munternet said:


> Sweet
> What voltages did you require for that?


Booted to windows and Aida test at only 1,5V but I have problems during post I should work a bit to find the right timing/voltage setup.


----------



## jeiselramos

mouacyk said:


> Is it 4 or 2 dimms?


4 dimms


----------



## SoldierRBT

Been working on this for a few weeks. I think I found good slopes values but I may have to tweak voltages a bit. 32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.58v DRAM 1.33v IO/SA. 40C


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> It's the whole pakkage with Apex. Higher speeds, lower timings, lower rtl/iol. Everything is better. If 2x dimms is enough, there is no reason to buy anything else than Apex.
> 
> Love from Apex fanboy 😜


Is a shame I didn't wait to get an Apex z590 instead of the Hero but now I have all mounted and can't return.

Dual rank B-die kit like F4-4000C16D-32GTZR can get the same latency as single rank i have *F4-3600C15D-16GTZ?








*


----------



## menko2

SoldierRBT said:


> Been working on this for a few weeks. I think I found good slopes values but I may have to tweak voltages a bit. 32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.58v DRAM 1.33v IO/SA. 40C
> 
> View attachment 2485815


Great results.

What ram kit are you using?


----------



## aelix

Hi all, I just got a 10600KF and Patriot Viper Steel 4400 CL19 2x 8GB kit. I'm new to memory OC and so far I've just done the following:


Set VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.20v
Set DRAM voltage to 1.45v
Set frequency to 4000Mhz
Tightened primaries and a couple of secondaries: 16-16-16-34 with tRFC 360

Here are my full settings, interested in feedback about what I should tighten next if my goal is to get latency down without pumping extra voltage in via VCCIO/SA or DRAM. I'm being fairly conservative because I'm currently GPU limited so any gains will be marginal and mostly for my own entertainment.


----------



## menko2

aelix said:


> Hi all, I just got a 10600KF and Patriot Viper Steel 4400 CL19 2x 8GB kit. I'm new to memory OC and so far I've just done the following:
> 
> 
> Set VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.20v
> Set DRAM voltage to 1.45v
> Set frequency to 4000Mhz
> Tightened primaries and a couple of secondaries: 16-16-16-34 with tRFC 360
> 
> Here are my full settings, interested in feedback about what I should tighten next if my goal is to get latency down without pumping extra voltage in via VCCIO/SA or DRAM. I'm being fairly conservative because I'm currently GPU limited so any gains will be marginal and mostly for my own entertainment.
> 
> View attachment 2485842


Even if you are gpu limited like me, you might get higher mins fps.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> Been working on this for a few weeks. I think I found good slopes values but I may have to tweak voltages a bit. 32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.58v DRAM 1.33v IO/SA. 40C
> 
> View attachment 2485815


Have you also now GSat stable?


----------



## SoldierRBT

menko2 said:


> Great results.
> What ram kit are you using?


Thank you. Kit is F4-4266C17D-32GVKB.



PhoenixMDA said:


> Have you also now GSat stable?


I'll try GSAT this weekend. Working on getting it stable in TM5 Extreme.


----------



## The Pook

aelix said:


> Here are my full settings, interested in feedback about what I should tighten next if my goal is to get latency down without pumping extra voltage in via VCCIO/SA or DRAM. I'm being fairly conservative because I'm currently GPU limited so any gains will be marginal and mostly for my own entertainment.
> 
> View attachment 2485842


lower all of them if you want latency to go down, lol.

tightening tRDWR and tWRRD should get your copy speed more in line with read/write


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> Thank you. Kit is F4-4266C17D-32GVKB.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try GSAT this weekend. Working on getting it stable in TM5 Extreme.


GSat is important, Tm5 Extreme not the same.
Gsat, Prime95 1,5h and Memtest that are my tests for 24/7 for stability.
By your awesome Chip is DirectDie very nice.
Take a look only possible with an lucky run and cold temp´s with my chip^^.It scale awesome with temp.
Your chip was nearly the same like my.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> GSat is important, Tm5 Extreme not the same.
> Gsat, Prime95 1,5h and Memtest that are my tests for 24/7 for stability.
> By your awesome Chip is DirectDie very nice.
> Take a look only possible with an lucky run and cold temp´s with my chip^^.It scale awesome with temp.
> Your chip was nearly the same like my.
> View attachment 2485875


Nice clocks. I remember our chips were almost identical. I may try direct die in a couple of months and see how my chip scales with temperature. I'm waiting for the 3090 KPE block to configure my water cooling setup. I have the RAM block for months now.

Are you able to boot 4700 17-17-17? I have tried for a few days with no success. I always get 3E error code before 55. 4700 17-18-18 and 16-17-17 are bootable.


----------



## Imprezzion

Is a 11900K (or 11700K) on a Z490 board stronger memory OC wise? Or does board topology and such still play a major role. I am debating just buying one for the fun if testing it but I have a direct die 10900K @ 5.3 all core so I guess that's hard to beat unless it gives me a big edge memory wise. This CPU's IMC paired with my specific board (MSI Z490 Ace, no clue which topology it has) doesn't like anything above 4400Mhz and 4400Mhz won't really run at any useful timings either. 4200 15-17-17 is the limit this combination can run even tho the DIMMs can do better. I tested them at a friend's place with a 10900KA and a Apex and they will do 4533 17-17-17 just fine on that combination.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Is a 11900K (or 11700K) on a Z490 board stronger memory OC wise? Or does board topology and such still play a major role. I am debating just buying one for the fun if testing it but I have a direct die 10900K @ 5.3 all core so I guess that's hard to beat unless it gives me a big edge memory wise. This CPU's IMC paired with my specific board (MSI Z490 Ace, no clue which topology it has) doesn't like anything above 4400Mhz and 4400Mhz won't really run at any useful timings either. 4200 15-17-17 is the limit this combination can run even tho the DIMMs can do better. I tested them at a friend's place with a 10900KA and a Apex and they will do 4533 17-17-17 just fine on that combination.


Short answer no.

If you want to play sure get a 11900k. Be prepared for issues if using z490 mb. I have just been playing with a 11900k in z490 Apex and it is ok. I wouldn't recommend it to someone over a 10700k or 10850k/10900k.

I haven't even tried the 11900k in the z490 Unify I have as I already know it would be a dud as Apex has enough issues and they have bios out that are within the last few days where MSI is from Feb so I can only imagine how that would be if you are trying for higher mem OC. It will probably get better with bios updates but for now I can imagine many people will have issues using z590 processors in z490 MB until the bios gets better.

I am not saying the z590 processors will not work in z490 but for new builders buying a z490 mb to save $$ and using a z590 cpu and expecting to plug in 4800c17 mem oc and go are in for another thing.

It is fun though playing with mem OCs on z590 something like a [email protected] b die for an aida64 run. Which I could never do on z390 or z490 hardware I have had.

MSI MEG Z490 ACE & UNIFY Overclocking Club link if you haven't seen it about another users experience using z490mb with z590 cpu.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> Nice clocks. I remember our chips were almost identical. I may try direct die in a couple of months and see how my chip scales with temperature. I'm waiting for the 3090 KPE block to configure my water cooling setup. I have the RAM block for months now.
> 
> Are you able to boot 4700 17-17-17? I have tried for a few days with no success. I always get 3E error code before 55. 4700 17-18-18 and 16-17-17 are bootable.


That´s easy you only must set training from late command to early command, that´s all, and so it´s no more a lucky boot, but with early command it´s more difficult to get it GSat stable with hard Sub´s.
So i think it´s better to stay on CL17-18.I think it´s possible to get 4700CL17-17 stable but perhaps with other sub´s, i dont have take time in 4700CL17-17,
because CL17-18 is much easier.^^









@Imprezzion
All Z490 are Daisy Chain, on 4Dimm Board is difficult to go over 4400 stable, the MSI Z490 Ace can boot up to 2x16GB 4600Mhz with 10900k with good "bin of HW" and the right settings, but difficult to get stable over 4400mhz.
How good it can work´s with RKL i dont know.


----------



## Gen.

My new kit F4-4000C17D-32GTSRB. 4000 15-15-15-34 1.445V bios (1.450V HWInfo) - 1 error. ODT auto. Temp 32-34 degree.


----------



## aelix

I've tweaked my 4400 CL19 kit a bit but I'm confused by the outcome. I applied the 'tight' timings from the Github guide across the board and dropped tRFC from 360 to 320, and booted fine. I ran AIDA64 but the results are almost identical to previous looser timings (in fact latency went up by 0.5ns).

Are some of my secondaries/tertiaries being automatically adjusted by the motherboard and offsetting any gains from the timings I manually tightened? Right image is previous, looser timings and left image is tighter timings.

One additional question: for some timings there is a _MR version which is described as the same thing but 'on the DRAM side'. Do I need to be adjusting this at the same time as the non-MR timing? It's not mentioned in the Github guide.


----------



## Falkentyne

aelix said:


> I've tweaked my 4400 CL19 kit a bit but I'm confused by the outcome. I applied the 'tight' timings from the Github guide across the board and dropped tRFC from 360 to 320, and booted fine. I ran AIDA64 but the results are almost identical to previous looser timings (in fact latency went up by 0.5ns).
> 
> Are some of my secondaries/tertiaries being automatically adjusted by the motherboard and offsetting any gains from the timings I manually tightened? Right image is previous, looser timings and left image is tighter timings.
> 
> One additional question: for some timings there is a _MR version which is described as the same thing but 'on the DRAM side'. Do I need to be adjusting this at the same time as the non-MR timing? It's not mentioned in the Github guide.
> 
> View attachment 2485927


On AIDA, your first run is always going to have terrible latency. You have to run it 2 or 3 times to get it down.
Also if you just click the top left over "memory", you can test just the memory bandwidth and latency without testing the cache speeds. Saves time.

Your TWRRD_SG is still needlessly high. Try 30 instead of 35, so sg and dg are 4 away from each other (with sg always being higher than dg).
Make sure twtr_l and twtr_s are set to auto in the bios, as twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg will control those values for you.

You can drop twrwr_sg to 7.
Your TREFI is WAY too low. Try 32768 first.
If that's stable, yeet it to 49152 and then 65534/65535.


----------



## aelix

Falkentyne said:


> Your TREFI is WAY too low. Try 32768 first.
> If that's stable, yeet it to 49152 and then 65534/65535


I was just concerned about boosting tREFI because I read that it can corrupt your OS slowly over time without any obvious warning signs. Not sure if this is accurate or not an issue with recent DDR4 kits?


----------



## Falkentyne

aelix said:


> I was just concerned about boosting tREFI because I read that it can corrupt your OS slowly over time without any obvious warning signs. Not sure if this is accurate or not an issue with recent DDR4 kits?


That's why I said start at 32768.
Usually corruption like that tends to happen if your RAM chips get too hot. And you can run OCCT ram test and test for that, as well as Testmem5 Anta777, and (on rocket lake only), Prime95 large FFT with AVX disabled.
But it is sort of pointless to lower tRFC without raising tREFI. your trefi is WAY too low.


----------



## Memmento Mori

Dear Memory GODS!

Any constructive idea or feedback if the settings are fine? Something to improve? Thank you very much for any suggestion, idea, feedback.


----------



## bscool

Memmento Mori said:


> Dear Memory GODS!
> 
> Any constructive idea or feedback if the settings are fine? Something to improve? Thank you very much for any suggestion, idea, feedback.
> 
> View attachment 2485988


One thing I see with a quick glance is your rtl/iols are off. Use this to see them all MSI Dragon Ball.zip it is a portable program so you can see them all in Windows. Select channel a and then channel b in Dragon Ball to see allrtl/ iols for each channel.

To get them to stick on MSI z490 you need to keep rebooting until the are all as low as they can go and "aligned". You need to view them in the bios and then set the training to OFF, save/f12. Z490 Tomahawk "Manually" setting RTL/IO-L help...


----------



## Gen.

Guys, was there anyone who could do 4300+ DR B-die on XII HERO?


----------



## Falkentyne

Memmento Mori said:


> Dear Memory GODS!
> 
> Any constructive idea or feedback if the settings are fine? Something to improve? Thank you very much for any suggestion, idea, feedback.
> 
> View attachment 2485988


TRDRD_SG =8 is sort of high. Try 6.
Your TRDWRs are out in outer space. Try 12/12/12/12.

TRDWR's have an effect on TCWL ceiling. So you may need to raise tCWL to 14. I don't think 10 will work with 12/12/12/12. If 14 works, try to see if 13 will POST.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Gen. said:


> Guys, was there anyone who could do 4300+ DR B-die on XII HERO?


Yes possible incl. Gsat.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Memmento Mori said:


> Dear Memory GODS!
> 
> Any constructive idea or feedback if the settings are fine? Something to improve? Thank you very much for any suggestion, idea, feedback.
> 
> View attachment 2485988


RTLs are wrong too. Seems you have only tuned CHA, but forgot CHB.


----------



## SoldierRBT

32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.57v DRAM 1.31v IO 1.32v SA 1Hour GSAT Max temp: 39.5C


----------



## HyperMatrix

Hello, ram people. I'm rather clueless when it comes to memory overclocking. I know just the basics and even that is up for debate. I have a 4x 8GB Trident Z kit (Samsung B die, 4000MHz CL15 1.5V) I'm currently stuck at 4266MHz at 15-15-15-36 T1 with 1.55V using Gear 2 and 100:133. I tried running at 4533MHz and it boots into windows and I can run AIDA64 and see an improvement in both bandwidth as well as latency, but it's not stable. I'll get errors running other benchmarks. I've tried increasing the voltage up to 1.65V with little effect. So I have a couple questions:

1) Has anyone made an OC settings chart for samsung b die memory somewhere that I could copy and not waste your time?
2) If none exist, and without taking up too much of your time, are there any suggestions you could give for what I could try? 

This is on an 11900K with an Asus ROG Maximus XIII Hero motherboard. Thanks. Screenshot below of current settings/benchmark.


----------



## Falkentyne

HyperMatrix said:


> Hello, ram people. I'm rather clueless when it comes to memory overclocking. I know just the basics and even that is up for debate. I have a 4x 8GB Trident Z kit (Samsung B die, 4000MHz CL15 1.5V) I'm currently stuck at 4266MHz at 15-15-15-36 T1 with 1.55V using Gear 2 and 100:133. I tried running at 4533MHz and it boots into windows and I can run AIDA64 and see an improvement in both bandwidth as well as latency, but it's not stable. I'll get errors running other benchmarks. I've tried increasing the voltage up to 1.65V with little effect. So I have a couple questions:
> 
> 1) Has anyone made an OC settings chart for samsung b die memory somewhere that I could copy and not waste your time?
> 2) If none exist, and without taking up too much of your time, are there any suggestions you could give for what I could try?
> 
> This is on an 11900K with an Asus ROG Maximus XIII Hero motherboard. Thanks. Screenshot below of current settings/benchmark.
> 
> View attachment 2486103


Please use Timing configurator 4.0.8. The link to it was posted in the Asrock Formula Z590 thread.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Falkentyne said:


> Please use Timing configurator 4.0.8. The link to it was posted in the Asrock Formula Z590 thread.


Done and done.


----------



## Gen.

PhoenixMDA said:


> Yes possible incl. Gsat.


I configured 4400c16 1.54V on my previous modules, but literally after a reboot, I got a bunch of errors. I didn't change the BIOS settings, just rebooted the PC. On the Z490 Tomahawk was good. I am thinking to sell hero12 and buy hero13, what do you think? Now 4000 19-19-40-2T 1.200V Stab


----------



## PhoenixMDA

H


SoldierRBT said:


> 32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.57v DRAM 1.31v IO 1.32v SA 1Hour GSAT Max temp: 39.5C
> View attachment 2486091


Very nice, you can also test 4666Cl17-17 it need´s a little bit more IO/SA, a little bit lower Vref and perhaps other RTL/IOL.
This is my limit without much work in my case,the same subs like my 4600CL17-17.
Don´t forget to check IO/SA with Prime 95 80-192k 30min,GSat works with lower then Prime.










@Gen.
You must test GSat and Prime 80-192k and Memtest.Hero XII or XIII is no good choice for 2x16GB DR, higher Frequency is on 2Dimm Board like Apex much easier and in high frequency only possible in really stable.


----------



## AeonMW2

finally something not completely terrible with that 4 dimms and Gigabyte Vision G...

Patriot Viper Steel 4x8GB (PVS416G440C9K)
4000 17-17-17-36
vDIMM 1.45 vCCIO 1.30 vCCSA 1.34
RTT section 60 60 60 60 40 40 60 60 60 60 40 40
multiple hours of TM5 and prime 800k stable

sorry ASRock Timing Configurator not working for me for some reason
will try 4200 next


----------



## Memmento Mori

Falkentyne said:


> TRDRD_SG =8 is sort of high. Try 6.
> Your TRDWRs are out in outer space. Try 12/12/12/12.
> 
> TRDWR's have an effect on TCWL ceiling. So you may need to raise tCWL to 14. I don't think 10 will work with 12/12/12/12. If 14 works, try to see if 13 will POST.


set but messing with the RTLs and IO-Ls is messing with the TRDWRs...



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> RTLs are wrong too. Seems you have only tuned CHA, but forgot CHB.


did not touched the settings before - all AUTO

now trying to find a base values - could gimme a clue? What values I should be aiming? just hardly set them as fixed?

Thank you very much for any advice.


----------



## bscool

@Memmento Mori If you read the link I posted it covers what you need to do to set your RTLs on msi z490. It is not like Asus z490 where you can set them manually.

Hint: Dynamic will give lower RTL/IOLs than Fixed for Latency Timing Mode.

As for iols look for something like 7/7/7/7 or 7/7/8/8. As long as they are within 1 of each other you should be good.

Also if you do not set training to *off* the rtl/iols will drift boot to boot so at times you might get something like 7/12/8/9 and then have issues with stability or reduced performance.


----------



## Hawkjoss

Hello all,
i am new to RAM overclocking, working with 2 kits of G.skill *F4-3600C16D-16GTZNC (4x8Gb)*

was trying to tighten secondary timings on at 3600mhz, and got one error running TM5 Extreme1 config:


Spoiler: Error















Test 0 error - "voltage cutoff choke", what does that mean? should i bump DDR voltage?


----------



## Memmento Mori

bscool said:


> @Memmento Mori If you read the link I posted it covers what you need to do to set your RTLs on msi z490. It is not like Asus z490 where you can set them manually.
> 
> Hint: Dynamic will give lower RTL/IOLs than Fixed for Latency Timing Mode.
> 
> As for iols look for something like 7/7/7/7 or 7/7/8/8. As long as they are within 1 of each other you should be good.
> 
> Also if you do not set training to *off* the rtl/iols will drift boot to boot so at times you might get something like 7/12/8/9 and then have issues with stability or reduced performance.


Ok got it, now i understand what you ment with it takes some boots. Training off means disabled or no training? To fix it?

Edit:just read in the post you send “no training-off”


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Memmento Mori said:


> set but messing with the RTLs and IO-Ls is messing with the TRDWRs...
> 
> 
> did not touched the settings before - all AUTO
> 
> now trying to find a base values - could gimme a clue? What values I should be aiming? just hardly set them as fixed?
> 
> Thank you very much for any advice.


CHA-CHB=58-59 (RTL) &7-7(IOL)


----------



## cstkl1

11900K ES- SP76
M13a-0091 Mod (611)

STOCK - LL2
Klevv Bolt XR 3600 2x16gb DJR DR
5066C20 - 20-28-28-48-1N @1.6v
MC-IO/SA - 1.3/1.3v


----------



## Memmento Mori

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> CHA-CHB=58-59 (RTL) &7-7(IOL)


Im pretty close to it but having CHA 58 CHB60, will play a bit with it ... thanks for the imput.

is there any reason that when i set the TRDWRs to 12 it changes for example to 11-12-13-13 or 12-14-13-12? It nevernkeeps what i put there in. Should i keep booting until its set as should and set no training?

Thanks for any advice.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Memmento Mori said:


> Im pretty close to it but having CHA 58 CHB60, will play a bit with it ... thanks for the imput.
> 
> is there any reason that when i set the TRDWRs to 12 it changes for example to 11-12-13-13 or 12-14-13-12? It nevernkeeps what i put there in. Should i keep booting until its set as should and set no training?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


You can set the timings to "fixed mode". In "dynamic mode" the timings might change a little bit.


----------



## robalm

What ia RTT, i have seen some guys talking abou?


----------



## Memmento Mori

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You can set the timings to "fixed mode". In "dynamic mode" the timings might change a little bit.


will try it, let you know if my board is taking or giving commands 😉 thanks for advice!


----------



## Thrakis

Hi.
I recently upgraded my AMIXhero to AMXapex with 8700k and my old F4-4000C17-16GTRS in hope of lower CPU temps and improve RAM timings, counted on increasing frequency to 4400ish+.
After few days tuning and testing I ended up with stable 4000 C15 and timings below - anta extreme 8h without errors.
RTTs (80,240,0), RTL tuned.
VDRAM=1,485V, Dram VTT = 0,5*VDRAM-50mV. VCCIO=1,08V, VCCSA=1,12V. RAM temps < 37*C under Anta testing.
CPU x53, cache x50 @ 1,32V, LLC=6.

The problem is, that I meet the frequency wall at 4133 MHz and can't get over it.
With relaxed timing 17,17,34 and sec/tert timings in auto I wasn't able to boot at 4133.
First after lowering VCCIO to like 1,05 and SA to 1,1 I manged to boot @4133 shortly, but that wouldn't help with higher frequencies.
Tried IO and SA at 1,2 and above to 1,25 without being able to boot.

Perhaps some of You would have some hint here, what could I try - grateful in advance 
Was also considering trying 9900k (highest supported by Z370) for the task, hoping that the newer IMC might be able to work better with ram chips - is that any reasonable way to consider?

Best regards and thanks in advance.


----------



## Hawkjoss

Thrakis said:


> Hi.
> I recently upgraded my AMIXhero to AMXapex with 8700k and my old F4-4000C17-16GTRS in hope of lower CPU temps and improve RAM timings, counted on increasing frequency to 4400ish+.
> After few days tuning and testing I ended up with stable 4000 C15 and timings below - anta extreme 8h without errors.
> RTTs (80,240,0), RTL tunet.
> VDRAM=1,485V, Dram VTT = 0,5*VDRAM-50mV. VCCIO=1,128V, VCCSA=1,168V. RAM temps < 37*C under Anta testing.
> CPU x50, cache x47 @ 1,250-1,265, LLC=6.
> 
> The problem is, that I meet the frequency wall at 4133 MHz and can't get over it.
> With relaxed timing 17,17,34 and sec/tert timings in auto I wasn't able to boot at 4133.
> First after lowering VCCIO to like 1,05 and SA to 1,1 I manged to boot @4133 shortly, but that wouldn't help with higher frequencies.
> Tried IO and SA at 1,2 and above to 1,25 without being able to boot.
> 
> Perhaps some of You would have some hint here, what could I try - grateful in advance
> Was also considering trying 9900k (highest supported by Z370) for the task, hoping that the newer IMC might be able to work better with ram chips - is that any reasonable way to consider?
> 
> Best regards and thanks in advance.
> 
> View attachment 2486240


Not pro in this but i noticed you are running the ram in channel A only (according to the screenshot). Any reason for that?


----------



## Thrakis

Hawkjoss said:


> Not pro in this but i noticed you are running the ram in channel A only (according to the screenshot). Any reason for that?


It's a software bug for showing ram on apex motherboards - only two ram slots there.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> H
> 
> Very nice, you can also test 4666Cl17-17 it need´s a little bit more IO/SA, a little bit lower Vref and perhaps other RTL/IOL.
> This is my limit without much work in my case,the same subs like my 4600CL17-17.
> Don´t forget to check IO/SA with Prime 95 80-192k 30min,GSat works with lower then Prime.
> 
> View attachment 2486114
> 
> 
> @Gen.
> You must test GSat and Prime 80-192k and Memtest.Hero XII or XIII is no good choice for 2x16GB DR, higher Frequency is on 2Dimm Board like Apex much easier and in high frequency only possible in really stable.


Got 4666C17 stable. lower Vref and more IO/SA/DRAM helped for stability. 1.58v DRAM 1.33v IO 1.34v SA


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Very good, you need lower io/sa and higher vdimm as i.
24/7 i drive 4600CL17-17 because lower io/sa by nearly same performance.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> Very good, you need lower io/sa and higher vdimm as i.
> 24/7 i drive 4600CL17-17 because lower io/sa by nearly same performance.


Thanks for your help. 4666 seems very good compare to 4600. I get lower latency and higher write and copy, read looks to be around the same. It passed GSAT and now I’m working on TM5 Extreme and memtest (I may have to adjust VDIMM to 1.59v). It’s been very hard to stabilize CL 17 with dual rank. IMC is very sensitive and only the correct values work. CL 16 was so much easier, pretty much add more vdimm and errors went away. CL 17 works only with the correct IO/SA voltages (more than it needs would cause errors too). I’ll try 4700 17-17-17 when I have the sticks on water.


----------



## karate

I try to use BLM2K16G44C19U4B in Asus z490-e 10700K but can not stable with XMP. I google for the clue restart CMOS upgrade latest BIOS and resit the stick but not useful. 4266 and XMP timing is OK and apply CPU overcook is still work OK. Crucial say 100% compatible so it is confusing can not reach rated speed. Any body got some suggestion to try or know the problem?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

karate said:


> I try to use BLM2K16G44C19U4B in Asus z490-e 10700K but can not stable with XMP. I google for the clue restart CMOS upgrade latest BIOS and resit the stick but not useful. 4266 and XMP timing is OK and apply CPU overcook is still work OK. Crucial say 100% compatible so it is confusing can not reach rated speed. Any body got some suggestion to try or know the problem?


Micron's site is terrible. They even state their *Baliistix Max 5100* is 100% compatible with your MB.

If they say it is compatible, you can keep doing RMA until you get the right kit. 😁


----------



## jeiselramos

karate said:


> I try to use BLM2K16G44C19U4B in Asus z490-e 10700K but can not stable with XMP. I google for the clue restart CMOS upgrade latest BIOS and resit the stick but not useful. 4266 and XMP timing is OK and apply CPU overcook is still work OK. Crucial say 100% compatible so it is confusing can not reach rated speed. Any body got some suggestion to try or know the problem?


It's probably your IMC can't handle them


----------



## Imprezzion

It is. The chance of a 10700K running any 4400 kit properly out of the box is pretty slim.


----------



## karate

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Micron's site is terrible. They even state their *Baliistix Max 5100* is 100% compatible with your MB.
> 
> If they say it is compatible, you can keep doing RMA until you get the right kit. 😁


If not possible to work I maybe grab refund



jeiselramos said:


> It's probably your IMC can't handle them


How can we check IMC? Is normal 10700 IMC can not handle those speed?


----------



## karate

Imprezzion said:


> It is. The chance of a 10700K running any 4400 kit properly out of the box is pretty slim.


I understand. So how is 10900 chance?


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Micron's site is terrible. They even state their *Baliistix Max 5100* is 100% compatible with your MB.
> 
> If they say it is compatible, you can keep doing RMA until you get the right kit. 😁





cstkl1 said:


> 11900K ES- SP76
> M13a-0091 Mod (611)
> 
> STOCK - LL2
> Klevv Bolt XR 3600 2x16gb DJR DR
> 5066C20 - 20-28-28-48-1N @1.6v
> MC-IO/SA - 1.3/1.3v


I have been tweaking ram the best I can since you told me and followed your instructions and the guide you sent me.

I got much better ram speeds than before and i managed to have two approaches for gaming.

My kit is a g.skill 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected]

My surprise is that with the 3900mhz 14-14-14-30 (i also tweaked the 2nd and 3rd timings) i get better results in all games i tested than with the 4400mhz tweaked as well.

I play in 4k with a z590 hero iii, [email protected] (SP 92), 3090 Kingpin.

I'm gpu bound but the overall fps and the mins are a little better.

In Aida as you can see, the 4400mhz set up the results are much better. Strange.

Any suggestions about this?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> I have been tweaking ram the best I can since you told me and followed your instructions and the guide you sent me.
> 
> I got much better ram speeds than before and i managed to have two approaches for gaming.
> 
> My kit is a g.skill 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected]
> 
> My surprise is that with the 3900mhz 14-14-14-30 (i also tweaked the 2nd and 3rd timings) i get better results in all games i tested than with the 4400mhz tweaked as well.
> 
> I play in 4k with a z590 hero iii, [email protected] (SP 92), 3090 Kingpin.
> 
> I'm gpu bound but the overall fps and the mins are a little better.
> 
> In Aida as you can see, the 4400mhz set up the results are much better. Strange.
> 
> Any suggestions about this?
> 
> View attachment 2486374
> View attachment 2486375


AIDA just a test of simple r/w commands. So right now your actual tCL at 3800C14 is 7.37 ns, while your tCL at 4400C17 is 7.73ns. Plus the tRCD difference is even bigger. Thus your 3800C14 runs actually faster.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> AIDA just a test of simple r/w commands. So right now your actual tCL at 3800C14 is 7.37 ns, while your tCL at 4400C17 is 7.73ns. Plus the tRCD difference is even bigger. Thus your 3800C14 runs actually faster.


Ok thank you.

Let's say that I have the same overclock 3800cl14 but a dual rank 2x16gb instead of my 2x8gb.

What difference makes this?


----------



## esa1970

Hello.
This is my situation now.








If i extort some settings my performance get worse.If i allow round rip latency,sometimes my rtl and iol is 62/63/7/8 and some times boot become stuck code 69.
My odt`s is 80/48/0 both channel.Rest settings is auto.
I dont now what i do,that i get better performance.If somebody can help i to be thankful.
Sorry my English.


----------



## Thrakis

esa1970 said:


> Hello.
> This is my situation now.
> View attachment 2486418
> 
> If i extort some settings my performance get worse.If i allow round rip latency,sometimes my rtl and iol is 62/63/7/8 and some times boot become stuck code 69.
> My odt`s is 80/48/0 both channel.Rest settings is auto.
> I dont now what i do,that i get better performance.If somebody can help i to be thankful.
> Sorry my English.


Few things I would consider:

kind of high ram temps for B die - 51-52*C,
tRFC at your VDram could get bit lower,
shouldn't dual rank ODTs be 80/48/48?
you can try reduce tCKE down to min,
tWRTL & S and tRDWR look kind of high.
Regards


----------



## munternet

Thrakis said:


> Few things I would consider:
> 
> kind of high ram temps for B die - 51-52*C,
> tRFC at your VDram could get bit lower,
> assuming your ram i single rank ODTs should be 80/240/0.
> you can try reduce tCKE down to min,
> tWRTL & S and tRDWR look kind of high.
> Regards


Sticks are dual rank in the pic


----------



## Thrakis

munternet said:


> Sticks are dual rank in the pic


thanks, noticed it bit later


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks for your help. 4666 seems very good compare to 4600. I get lower latency and higher write and copy, read looks to be around the same. It passed GSAT and now I’m working on TM5 Extreme and memtest (I may have to adjust VDIMM to 1.59v). It’s been very hard to stabilize CL 17 with dual rank. IMC is very sensitive and only the correct values work. CL 16 was so much easier, pretty much add more vdimm and errors went away. CL 17 works only with the correct IO/SA voltages (more than it needs would cause errors too). I’ll try 4700 17-17-17 when I have the sticks on water.


Really hard will be at 2x16GB 4700, this is only possible stable with slope´s in my case.
4700CL17-18 i have done that is much easier than 4700CL17-17 with hard sub´s.

4700CL17-17 Gsat, but this is not stable as my 4700CL17-18.









I think 4600CL17-17 is the best it´s nearly the same performance and there is enough headroom.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> Ok thank you.
> 
> Let's say that I have the same overclock 3800cl14 but a dual rank 2x16gb instead of my 2x8gb.
> 
> What difference makes this?


For dual ranks, the read and write can burst at the same time, while for single ranks, only one write or read command can be issued at the same time. So dual ranks are faster for complex tasks.


----------



## esa1970

Thrakis said:


> Few things I would consider:
> 
> kind of high ram temps for B die - 51-52*C,
> tRFC at your VDram could get bit lower,
> shouldn't dual rank ODTs be 80/48/48?
> you can try reduce tCKE down to min,
> tWRTL & S and tRDWR look kind of high.
> Regards


Thanks,but those dont work for me.I dont now why.All chance get worse performance.


----------



## Lownage

Can´t get any higher/tighter.

Voltages in bios: 
DRAM: 1,49V
VCCIO MEM: 1.33V
VCCSA: 1.15V

What should be the max for VCCIO MEM 24/7?


----------



## Hawkjoss

Lownage said:


> Can´t get any higher/tighter.
> 
> Voltages in bios:
> DRAM: 1,49V
> VCCIO MEM: 1.33V
> VCCSA: 1.15V
> 
> What should be the max for VCCIO MEM 24/7?





Spoiler: =)



I like the Temp 2 sensor readout in HWInfo - is that sensor submerged in your cup of tea or something =)


----------



## encrypted11

i9-11900K @stock---4533Mhz-C18-24-24-43-1T----1.575V---SA 1.17V---MCIO 1.22V---Stressapptest----1 Hour


----------



## itssladenlol

menko2 said:


> I have been tweaking ram the best I can since you told me and followed your instructions and the guide you sent me.
> 
> I got much better ram speeds than before and i managed to have two approaches for gaming.
> 
> My kit is a g.skill 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected]
> 
> My surprise is that with the 3900mhz 14-14-14-30 (i also tweaked the 2nd and 3rd timings) i get better results in all games i tested than with the 4400mhz tweaked as well.
> 
> I play in 4k with a z590 hero iii, 1090[email protected] (SP 92), 3090 Kingpin.
> 
> I'm gpu bound but the overall fps and the mins are a little better.
> 
> In Aida as you can see, the 4400mhz set up the results are much better. Strange.
> 
> Any suggestions about this?
> 
> View attachment 2486374
> View attachment 2486375


Your 3800 setup has 100MHz more on cpu and cache..


----------



## encrypted11

Anyone has a Z590 version of Asus TurboV?


----------



## Lownage

nvm


----------



## Gen.

Hi guys. Rate my work


----------



## dwnfall

About to try to OC my ram for the first time anything I should know with this setup: Z490 Unify + Ripjaws V 2x8GB DDR4 4400 + 10900k + 3080


will post back with results when finished


----------



## menko2

menko2 said:


> I have been tweaking ram the best I can since you told me and followed your instructions and the guide you sent me.
> 
> I got much better ram speeds than before and i managed to have two approaches for gaming.
> 
> My kit is a g.skill 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected]
> 
> My surprise is that with the 3900mhz 14-14-14-30 (i also tweaked the 2nd and 3rd timings) i get better results in all games i tested than with the 4400mhz tweaked as well.
> 
> I play in 4k with a z590 hero iii, [email protected] (SP 92), 3090 Kingpin.
> 
> I'm gpu bound but the overall fps and the mins are a little better.
> 
> In Aida as you can see, the 4400mhz set up the results are much better. Strange.
> 
> Any suggestions about this?
> 
> View attachment 2486374
> View attachment 2486375


I decided to jump for dual rank for gaming my system. 

The overclock im using with the single rank b die sticks is 3900mhz 14-14-14-30. 
It works better in gaming than the 4400mhz 17-18-18-38.

I bought this stick samsung b die dual rank: 
G.Skill F4-4000C16D-32GTZR.
4000MHz CL16-16-16-36 1.40V

With dual rank which speed-latency should I aim for gaming? I will use 1.45-1.50v for the ram and 1.25v for vccio-sa to be "safe" 24/7.

I have a little knowledge of b die single rank but dual rank not much idea. I'm aiming for gaming more than results in Aida or benchmarks.


----------



## Imprezzion

4200C15 would be nice. It's what I run on my 3600C16's. Had the best balance between latency and bandwidth. I need 1.60v for it tho, maybe these are better binned and can do it at 1.50v.


----------



## Gen.

Hello everyone.
I am from Russia, many people here know this.
I bought F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA 4000MHz 16-16-16-36-52-2T 1.400V XMP.
As soon as it reaches me, I'll post it here.
I am currently working on F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB 4000MHz 17-18-18-38-56-2T 1.400V XMP kit. RCD is bad here for one bar. While I'm trying to tune 4400 16-17-17-37-2T 1.490-1.510V to HERO XII (Wi-Fi) (I am fiddling with a full block of skew control + 10600KF (very strong percent, 5400/5200 1.350V Cinebench R23 and IMC about 1.2/1.24 for 4400CL16 IOL 8-8 on LinX 0.9.11)


----------



## menko2

Imprezzion said:


> 4200C15 would be nice. It's what I run on my 3600C16's. Had the best balance between latency and bandwidth. I need 1.60v for it tho, maybe these are better binned and can do it at 1.50v.


Can you send me the rest of your timings? 4200 CL15 sounds great. I will have a base to aim for. 

I'm going to install it today. Too much work and very little free time.


----------



## Imprezzion

menko2 said:


> Can you send me the rest of your timings? 4200 CL15 sounds great. I will have a base to aim for.
> 
> I'm going to install it today. Too much work and very little free time.


My primaries are 15-17-17 as I don't have the voltage room to get away with 15-15-15- or 15-16-16. You should if they are 4000 16-16-16 chips. 
My ODT's are 80-40-40 and PPD = 0 / disabled completely. 

You should also be able to get away with slightly tighter tRDWR's then I can on these 3600C16's.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> AIDA just a test of simple r/w commands. So right now your actual tCL at 3800C14 is 7.37 ns, while your tCL at 4400C17 is 7.73ns. Plus the tRCD difference is even bigger. Thus your 3800C14 runs actually faster.


I bought this kit: G. Skill 32GB (2x16GB) 4000MHz CL16-16-16-36 1.40V. 400€

I haven't installed yet and i just found one in amazon 2x8gb kit like the one I have now: 16GB (2x8GB) 3600MHz CL15-15-15-35 1.35V. 125€. It's not totally new as it's been returned by someone in amazon.

Price difference is a 275€ but my motherboard is daisy chain (hero xiii). 

Is it worth the price of the 32GB kit to go dual rank 2x16GB or i should I take the same kit i have to go 4x8GB?

Im aiming for 4200mhz CL15 aprox for gaming with the 2x16gb kit and 3800mhz CL15 with the 4x8gb kit.


----------



## Gen.

If you are in doubt about the XIII HERO motherboard, then my friend has achieved such results! XII HERO seems to be worse in this regard, but I am working on it to help in the success of 4300+DR.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> I bought this kit: G. Skill 32GB (2x16GB) 4000MHz CL16-16-16-36 1.40V. 400€
> 
> I haven't installed yet and i just found one in amazon 2x8gb kit like the one I have now: 16GB (2x8GB) 3600MHz CL15-15-15-35 1.35V. 125€. It's not totally new as it's been returned by someone in amazon.
> 
> Price difference is a 275€ but my motherboard is daisy chain (hero xiii).
> 
> Is it worth the price of the 32GB kit to go dual rank 2x16GB or i should I take the same kit i have to go 4x8GB?
> 
> Im aiming for 4200mhz CL15 aprox for gaming with the 2x16gb kit and 3800mhz CL15 with the 4x8gb kit.


Should go for that 4000C16D-32GTRGA/SA. I bought one kit too. It's a new release and GSkill usually put some highly binned sticks among the launch kits.

I have ever tested 3 3600C15D kits, just ordinary bdies.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Should go for that 4000C16D-32GTRGA/SA. I bought one kit too. It's a new release and GSkill usually put some highly binned sticks among the launch kits.
> 
> I have ever tested 3 3600C15D kits, just ordinary bdies.


Yes i made a mistake.

My kit is [email protected] so it's not as well binned as the new kit you mention (16-16-16-36 @1.40v).

No stock from them here in spain yet.

Is it worth returning the ones I have and wait for the new ones?


----------



## menko2

Gen. said:


> If you are in doubt about the XIII HERO motherboard, then my friend has achieved such results! XII HERO seems to be worse in this regard, but I am working on it to help in the success of 4300+DR.


VCCIO Voltage [1.39000]

VCCSA Voltage Override [1.46000]

Are this values safe for air cooling? Seem to be very high. I'm using 1.30v in both.


----------



## Imprezzion

It's on the edge of what I would call acceptable. I ran 1.45v SA 1.40v IO 1.60v RAM @ 4533C18 for testing for a bit on direct die water and it was fine but yeah. No one knows unless someone tries and finds out it either works or it degrades. There's no predetermined guideline of what is safe and what isn't.


----------



## Gen.

menko2 said:


> VCCIO Voltage [1.39000]
> 
> VCCSA Voltage Override [1.46000]
> 
> Are this values safe for air cooling? Seem to be very high. I'm using 1.30v in both.


He has custom water for the processor, memory and video card 3090


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> Yes i made a mistake.
> 
> My kit is [email protected] so it's not as well binned as the new kit you mention (16-16-16-36 @1.40v).
> 
> No stock from them here in spain yet.
> 
> Is it worth returning the ones I have and wait for the new ones?


Yup, if you can, return that 16-19 kit and wait for the 16-16 kit. Worth a try.


----------



## KedarWolf

menko2 said:


> Yes i made a mistake.
> 
> My kit is [email protected] so it's not as well binned as the new kit you mention (16-16-16-36 @1.40v).
> 
> No stock from them here in spain yet.
> 
> Is it worth returning the ones I have and wait for the new ones?


I think the 16-19 kit is Hynix and the 16-16 is b-die. If you're talking about a 3600 kit. And the Hynix kit overclocks terribly compared to the b-die.


----------



## YaqY

KedarWolf said:


> I think the 16-19 kit is Hynix and the 16-16 is b-die. If you're talking about a 3600 kit. And the Hynix kit overclocks terribly compared to the b-die.


I think they mean the 4000 16-19 kit, this is bdie.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

KedarWolf said:


> I think the 16-19 kit is Hynix and the 16-16 is b-die. If you're talking about a 3600 kit. And the Hynix kit overclocks terribly compared to the b-die.


Both are bdie confirmed for the 4000 kits.


----------



## KedarWolf

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Both are bdie confirmed for the 4000 kits.


oh, I see.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Both are bdie confirmed for the 4000 kits.


In air cooling which IO and SA voltages are ok to go to?

With ram at 1.5v and IO-SA at 1.30v i can't go higher than 4100mhz.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> In air cooling which IO and SA voltages are ok to go to?
> 
> With ram at 1.5v and IO-SA at 1.30v i can't go higher than 4100mhz.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> View attachment 2487338
> 
> 
> View attachment 2487337
> 
> View attachment 2487339


I'm with 10900k.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> I'm with 10900k.


In 10gen datasheet, numbers are the same.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> In 10gen datasheet, numbers are the same.


Thank you man. 

I'm shocked the IO value is so low to what i was using? I followed a guide from GitHub and they recommended max 1.25v in both for overclock.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> Thank you man.
> 
> I'm shocked the IO value is so low to what i was using? I followed a guide from GitHub and they recommended max 1.25v in both for overclock.


No problem.

Because that is overclocking...otherwise you have to stop at 3200 MHz JEDEC ram.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> View attachment 2487338
> 
> 
> View attachment 2487337
> 
> View attachment 2487339


Going SA voltage 1.40-1.45v then is considered safe with air or you need water cooling?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> Going SA voltage 1.40-1.45v then is considered safe with air or you need water cooling?


Anything within that spec should be ok no matter which kind of cooling. But always the better cooling the better perf.


----------



## Imprezzion

Adjusted my RAM OC a bit. CPU is running XTU OCTVB @ 5.4Ghz 1-4 cores 5.3Ghz 4-8 cores 5.2Ghz 8-10 cores.
IO 1.25v SA 1.35v DRAM 1.50v, ODT 80-40-40, PPD = 0 all timings and RTL IO full "Fixed" mode manually entered.
Only real "problem" is tRDWR that won't go anywhere under 15's. 14's is an erroring mess and 13's won't even POST.


----------



## AndrejB

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> In 10gen datasheet, numbers are the same.


What about 9th gen?

All I read was sa/io 1.25/1.20 is ok for daily.
The above says max for io is 1.10


----------



## The Pook

datasheets aren't talking about *safe* voltages, lol.

unless you consider 1.52v a safe vCore, maybe don't shove >1.5v into SA (or just don't take datasheets out of context). 












AndrejB said:


> All I read was sa/io 1.25/1.20 is ok for daily.
> The above says max for io is 1.10


1.25/1.20 is fine.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

AndrejB said:


> What about 9th gen?
> 
> All I read was sa/io 1.25/1.20 is ok for daily.
> The above says max for io is 1.10


Can't determine anything outside of the datasheet, unless you've done the degradation exp in the lab.

If you are overclocking, you should know you are taking the risk. To which degree of the risk depends on how comfortable you are with the numbers.

9th gen I would consider max out the perf at IO/SA=1.35/1.4 for daily.


----------



## Imprezzion

Oh god I still haven't fixed my idle / shifting load crashes.. basically as soon as I touch a memory + CPU overclock I can't run any form of idle control or EIST/SpeedShift or downclocking on idle..

It just runs fine for hours and then just randomly crashes and freezes and then reboots to BIOS. I can run fine with memory overclocked and CPU stock or the other way around but combine those 2 it's a hellhole. I'm testing out of pure desperation now with RAM and CPU overclocked and cache on stock 4.3Ghz.. it kinda feels like the cache changing clocks made it crash but this can take days or weeks to find out as sometimes it would run fine for a day and then just randomly crash while watching a YouTube clip the next day..

Using XTU with OCTVB and not BIOS adjustments doesn't make it any easier..


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> Oh god I still haven't fixed my idle / shifting load crashes.. basically as soon as I touch a memory + CPU overclock I can't run any form of idle control or EIST/SpeedShift or downclocking on idle..
> 
> It just runs fine for hours and then just randomly crashes and freezes and then reboots to BIOS. I can run fine with memory overclocked and CPU stock or the other way around but combine those 2 it's a hellhole. I'm testing out of pure desperation now with RAM and CPU overclocked and cache on stock 4.3Ghz.. it kinda feels like the cache changing clocks made it crash but this can take days or weeks to find out as sometimes it would run fine for a day and then just randomly crash while watching a YouTube clip the next day..
> 
> Using XTU with OCTVB and not BIOS adjustments doesn't make it any easier..


try changing Windows Power plan so it downclocks less?










it goes off base clock, if 3.7 is your base clock then 50% would limit it to no lower than 50% of that.

not an actual fix but might be able to let you leave EIST/SpeedStep enabled and still get _some_ of the benefit.


----------



## Imprezzion

Yeah I might.. it's fine on the highest setting with either windows at 100% minimum cpu or just no EIST enabled in BIOS but it's so weird why it does it.

Just leaving CPU on Auto but having memory at 4400C17 manual is fine but the CPU only does 4.9 all core 5.3 single core but it doesn't crash in idle or when closing a stress test (so going from very high load quickly to no load). If I use anything manual in the BIOS or even as much as manually set the LLC it will immediately become super unstable at switching loads but be fine under constant load..

I'm trying to not touch the BIOS and doing everything from Intel XTU which works fine however I can't set LLC and AC/DC from there so different loads at the same TVB frequency (5.3 all core) give anywhere from 1.344v which is fine, it's about what it needs in fixed mode as well, all the way to 1.536v peaks when loading a game. There's no way to keep the voltage under control this way. I can enable TVB Voltage Optimization in the BIOS and this brings the voltage a bit more back in line at 1.43v ish peak but this WHEA errors like mad at light loads as well for some reason...


----------



## RODRIGUESF

Imprezzion said:


> Oh god I still haven't fixed my idle / shifting load crashes.. basically as soon as I touch a memory + CPU overclock I can't run any form of idle control or EIST/SpeedShift or downclocking on idle..
> 
> It just runs fine for hours and then just randomly crashes and freezes and then reboots to BIOS. I can run fine with memory overclocked and CPU stock or the other way around but combine those 2 it's a hellhole. I'm testing out of pure desperation now with RAM and CPU overclocked and cache on stock 4.3Ghz.. it kinda feels like the cache changing clocks made it crash but this can take days or weeks to find out as sometimes it would run fine for a day and then just randomly crash while watching a YouTube clip the next day..
> 
> Using XTU with OCTVB and not BIOS adjustments doesn't make it any easier..


Disable power down mode if you haven't already.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Can't determine anything outside of the datasheet, unless you've done the degradation exp in the lab.
> 
> If you are overclocking, you should know you are taking the risk. To which degree of the risk depends on how comfortable you are with the numbers.
> 
> 9th gen I would consider max out the perf at IO/SA=1.35/1.4 for daily.


This is very helpful to know as the guide a lot of us follow says 1.25v for SA and IO as max recommended for 24/7.

I have a question.
I play at 4k with a 3090. I'm with Maximus Hero XIII and [email protected] all core overclock.

I have three options for ram. I know at 4k don't matter much but the lows are better.

A) i own a single rank b die 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected] that overclocks well up to 4400mhz CL17 (maybe CL16 with more voltage). 
Cero cost.

B) i found another kit the same for 125€. That will be dual rank but 4x8gb in daisy chain motherboard i don't know how it will go. 
125€ cost.

C) I bought a 2x16gb B-die dual rank 4000mhz [email protected] i guess go take it to 4400mhz CL16 or CL17 will be possible.
400€ cost.

Which option is more appealing looking at the cost-performance playing at 4k?
I heard about frametime to be better with dual rank and might be noticeable when gaming.

I ask cause I started to work again after covid and i barely have time to test myself


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> This is very helpful to know as the guide a lot of us follow says 1.25v for SA and IO as max recommended for 24/7.
> 
> I have a question.
> I play at 4k with a 3090. I'm with Maximus Hero XIII and [email protected] all core overclock.
> 
> I have three options for ram. I know at 4k don't matter much but the lows are better.
> 
> A) i own a single rank b die 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected] that overclocks well up to 4400mhz CL17 (maybe CL16 with more voltage).
> Cero cost.
> 
> B) i found another kit the same for 125€. That will be dual rank but 4x8gb in daisy chain motherboard i don't know how it will go.
> 125€ cost.
> 
> C) I bought a 2x16gb B-die dual rank 4000mhz [email protected] i guess go take it to 4400mhz CL16 or CL17 will be possible.
> 400€ cost.
> 
> Which option is more appealing looking at the cost-performance playing at 4k?
> I heard about frametime to be better with dual rank and might be noticeable when gaming.
> 
> I ask cause I started to work again after covid and i barely have time to test myself


M13H is a Daisy-chain board. So OC with 2 dimms is far better than with 4 dimms.

Nowadays you should be aware more games start to use more than 10Gig ram, especially under the 4k scenario.

I would just suggest that option C and you may sell your old kit later. It should benefit your 1% low a lot. If you a lucky, you can expect 4600c16 on M13H with 10th gen.


----------



## techenth

I'll drop this here. It's on the higher side of things but apply -0.1V if you're unsure.










Source: MSI Z490 MEG FAMILY EXTREME OC GUIDE.pdf


----------



## menko2

0


OLDFATSHEEP said:


> M13H is a Daisy-chain board. So OC with 2 dimms is far better than with 4 dimms.
> 
> Nowadays you should be aware more games start to use more than 10Gig ram, especially under the 4k scenario.
> 
> I would just suggest that option C and you may sell your old kit later. It should benefit your 1% low a lot. If you a lucky, you can expect 4600c16 on M13H with 10th gen.


Im going to start from scratch my ram overclock. I have a little mess i think after so many changes.

Is there another guide different from GitHub? They recommend to keep 1.25v max IO and SA and that was limiting me everything in my oc.

Maybe there is another guide more updated for B-die.


----------



## menko2

SlayersBoner said:


> I'm not aware of any other guides that are as detailed or up to date as that github guide. One thing I will say is that i've been using anywhere between 1.3v to 1.34v VccSA and VccIO for the past 2 years without any degradation to the IMC.


Thank you.

As you can read here now most users say is ok to go up to 1.45v SA.

Apart of that, the 3rd timings are very dificult for me to configurate.

I tried to copy some overclocks of users here with samsung B-die but no luck.

4000mhzc16-19-19-39.
*RGB F4-4000C16D-32GTZR.*

Any help with this?


----------



## bscool

@menko2 This thread is full of setting that will get you very close but to know you just have to try and see what works for your exact hardware.

A rough guide of voltages I would try 1.55v ram. Try and keep io/sa 1.45 or less. Timings and voltages people use can be found throughout this thread. Just look for 2x8 or 2x16 if you are looking for settings to try.

If you have those gskill 4000c16-19-19 2x16 that should be your best bet. Should do 4266-4400c16-17-17 easy. 2x8 should do similar clocks if not higher depending on stick's.

Do not put in 0 or 1 when trying someone else timings. They are single rank timings. When all else fails leave a timing on auto and slowly lower from the default in bios. 

Z590 takes forever to get setup as booting and training is taking long than ever. At least using z490 Apex with 11900k boots that train memory can take around a minute or longer. So it might seem like a failed boot but it is just super slow to train. Not sure if this applies to your use with z590mb using 10900k.


----------



## menko2

bscool said:


> @menko2 This thread is full of setting that will get you very close but to know you just have to try and see what works for your exact hardware.
> 
> A rough guide of voltages I would try 1.55v ram. Try and keep io/sa 1.45 or less. Timings and voltages people use can be found throughout this thread. Just look for 2x8 or 2x16 if you are looking for settings to try.
> 
> If you have those gskill 4000c16-19-19 2x16 that should be your best bet. Should do 4266-4400c16-17-17 easy. 2x8 should do similar clocks if not higher depending on stick's.
> 
> Do not put in 0 or 1 when trying someone else timings. They are single rank timings. When all else fails leave a timing on auto and slowly lower from the default in bios.
> 
> Z590 takes forever to get setup as booting and training is taking long than ever. At least using z490 Apex with 11900k boots that train memory can take around a minute or longer. So it might seem like a failed boot but it is just super slow to train. Not sure if this applies to your use with z590mb using 10900k.


Thank you man.

I'll start in a hour to work on it.

Is it 1.55v not too much for ram voltage? I was using 1.50v like the very max.

My other kit is 3600mhz [email protected] it overclocks well.

I play in 4k and most users say single rank won't make a difference except in the low-fps. 

The 32gb is 400€ so im tempted to return it for small difference.

What do you think?


----------



## bscool

@menko2 You could try the 2x8 and see what it does for clocks or sell the 2x8 kit they should bring a decent price right now.

Here are some timings that should be close to what you need to get started for either 2x8 or 2x16. Don't worry about rtl and odt for now.

_Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread

Most are using 1.55-1.6v when OC 2x16. Some kits are even coming with XMP of 1.6v on the new gskill kits.

Edit with the 2x8 you will probably have to using something like c17 for 4400+. 4266c16 may work.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> M13H is a Daisy-chain board. So OC with 2 dimms is far better than with 4 dimms.
> 
> Nowadays you should be aware more games start to use more than 10Gig ram, especially under the 4k scenario.
> 
> I would just suggest that option C and you may sell your old kit later. It should benefit your 1% low a lot. If you a lucky, you can expect 4600c16 on M13H with 10th gen.


I have been testing dual rank 2x16 vs single rank 2x8gb. Both samsung b-die with the same timings to see the benefits of dual rank even in 4k with most at max like i play normally.

I tested Horizon Zero Dawn, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Valhalla. I tested their benchmarks and in game play with my savefiles. Even the mins are the same in dual rank so its not woth the cost of it which is a lot.

I know im gpu bound but expected better fps-mins. Decision taken and ill keep the ramkit i have.

Now im trying to overclock more than i had and im stuck at this point.Terciary timings are others are very hard.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Imprezzion

menko2 said:


> I have been testing dual rank 2x16 vs single rank 2x8gb. Both samsung b-die with the same timings to see the benefits of dual rank even in 4k with most at max like i play normally.
> 
> I tested Horizon Zero Dawn, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Valhalla. I tested their benchmarks and in game play with my savefiles. Even the mins are the same in dual rank so its not woth the cost of it which is a lot.
> 
> I know im gpu bound but expected better fps-mins. Decision taken and ill keep the ramkit i have.
> 
> Now im trying to overclock more than i had and im stuck at this point.Terciary timings are others are very hard.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> View attachment 2487719


Yeah lots. Drop the tWR to something like 12-14. Drop tRDWR to whatever it's happy at. For me it's 15-15-15-15 but I've seen people go as low as 12. Drop tWRRD to 29/24. Drop tWRWR dr and dd to whatever they are happy at, probably 7.

Then work on the RTL/IO. 69/71/14/15 is.. not great. I run 66/66/6/6 on 4400C17, C16 might need a small change but it's a start. Try Initials at 65/65/1/1 and try Offsetting them so they are equal. (If a ASUS HERO has similar options for RTL / IO as my MSI Ace has).


----------



## menko2

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah lots. Drop the tWR to something like 12-14. Drop tRDWR to whatever it's happy at. For me it's 15-15-15-15 but I've seen people go as low as 12. Drop tWRRD to 29/24. Drop tWRWR dr and dd to whatever they are happy at, probably 7.
> 
> Then work on the RTL/IO. 69/71/14/15 is.. not great. I run 66/66/6/6 on 4400C17, C16 might need a small change but it's a start. Try Initials at 65/65/1/1 and try Offsetting them so they are equal. (If a ASUS HERO has similar options for RTL / IO as my MSI Ace has).


Thank you for the help Impression.

I have been for 6 hours with the settings following the guide from internet.

I'm still a total noob. The system is not stable and i have such a headache. 

Voltages are high as well. Ram 1.55v. SA 1.30v. IO 1.45v.

Maybe I should aim for 4200-4300C16 with tighter timings. I can't barely change what i have done until now.


----------



## Imprezzion

menko2 said:


> Thank you for the help Impression.
> 
> I have been for 6 hours with the settings following the guide from internet.
> 
> I'm still a total noob. The system is not stable and i have such a headache.
> 
> Voltages are high as well. Ram 1.55v. SA 1.30v. IO 1.45v.
> 
> Maybe I should aim for 4200-4300C16 with tighter timings. I can't barely change what i have done until now.


Way too much IO. Set 1.40 SA 1.30 IO. Should be plenty. RAM can go up to 1.60-1.65v if it has active (fan) cooling. B-Die doesn't like 45c+ stability wise.

4400C16 is hard to run with lower end B-Die like 3600C16 for example.

Try this:
RAM 1.50v
IO 1.30v
SA 1.40v
4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T
tWR 16, tCWL 16
tWTR both Auto
tRRD S / L 4/6
tFAW 16
tRTP 8
tCCD_L 8

Leave the tertiary and RTL/IO all Auto for now.
Set ODT Wr, Nom, Park to 80 40 40 in that order.
You can play around with these a bit to make it stable btw.

Make sure DLL Bandwidth is on 0 and make sure PPD / Power Down Mode is 0 / disabled.

Should be a nice baseline.

If this doesn't work, repeat the same steps and values at 4200 16-16-16-34-320 or 16-17-17-33-320.


----------



## menko2

Imprezzion said:


> Way too much IO. Set 1.40 SA 1.30 IO. Should be plenty. RAM can go up to 1.60-1.65v if it has active (fan) cooling. B-Die doesn't like 45c+ stability wise.
> 
> 4400C16 is hard to run with lower end B-Die like 3600C16 for example.
> 
> Try this:
> RAM 1.50v
> IO 1.30v
> SA 1.40v
> 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T
> tWR 16, tCWL 16
> tWTR both Auto
> tRRD S / L 4/6
> tFAW 16
> tRTP 8
> tCCD_L 8
> 
> Leave the tertiary and RTL/IO all Auto for now.
> Set ODT Wr, Nom, Park to 80 40 40 in that order.
> You can play around with these a bit to make it stable btw.
> 
> Make sure DLL Bandwidth is on 0 and make sure PPD / Power Down Mode is 0 / disabled.
> 
> Should be a nice baseline.
> 
> If this doesn't work, repeat the same steps and values at 4200 16-16-16-34-320 or 16-17-17-33-320.


I following your advice and put the timings and voltages.

Do i have to put 100:100, 100:133 or auto?


----------



## Imprezzion

menko2 said:


> I following your advice and put the timings and voltages.
> 
> Do i have to put 100:100, 100:133 or auto?


Auto.


----------



## AeonMW2

why my read is so low compared to write? 
4x8 GB Patriot viper steel (4400 cl19 bin)


----------



## Gen.

@AeonMW2 

tRRD_L=6
tRFC=360
tWTR_L=8
tWTR_S=4
tRTP=8
tCWL=16
tREFI=32512/65024
tRDRD_dr/tRDWR_dr/tWRRD_dr/tWRWR_dr=1
tRDRD_dd=6
tRDWR_sg/tRDWR_dg/tRDWR_dd=12/12/12
tWRRD_sg/dg=30/26

RTL:
63/63/64/65/8/8/8/8


----------



## GanjaSMK

Where do I go from here? *Seperate thread link*, suggested to post here for you all to chime in

10850K on MSI Gaming Edge Wifi most current BIOS 

VCCIO 1.25 VCCSA 1.3 / DRAM 1.5v @ 4200 16-16-16-38-736; tFAW 40 PPD 0 RTL/IOL 64/62 and 8/8 

KIT: G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200C14 2x16GB - Dual Rank SS B-die 













The tertiary and secondary are tuned again (really slightly) further: 













Things I've tried that boot into windows but *produce errors *before 200% coverage in Karhu: 

? Reducing tRFC to anything lower than 350ns results in errors 
? Increasing tREFI above 'auto' from BIOS
? Reducing tFAW not on produces errors but throws RTL and IOL out of whack (when on auto and is overwritten when manually plugged in BOIS)
? Booting and loading Windows at 4400Mhz+ is possible but does not produce AIDA scores superior to 4200-c16 (limitation of KIT? or BOARD? CHIP?)
I am not a pro, I don't understand RAM fully so any and all insight is helpful. I've basically relied on guides and testing without truly understanding the underlying tech (IMHO). 

Where can I go from here for improved performance via higher bandwidth or lower latency? Help me help me!


----------



## ViTosS

Guys, did my motherboard or maybe RAM degraded in someway? Because my PC now sometimes doesn't boot showing random Q-Codes and I can fix it by reducing the RAM frequency (from 4200 to 4000Mhz) for example, but what is weird is that when it boots at 4200Mhz like it always did for almost 1 full year without problem it can pass in all stress tests, including CPU and RAM tests but suddenly this started to happen, I tried Clear CMOS, tried resetting manually all the settings in BIOS but without success, sometimes the PC boots and sometimes it doesn't showing Q-Code randomly with no relation at all. Any ideas?


----------



## munternet

ViTosS said:


> Guys, did my motherboard or maybe RAM degraded in someway? Because my PC now sometimes doesn't boot showing random Q-Codes and I can fix it by reducing the RAM frequency (from 4200 to 4000Mhz) for example, but what is weird is that when it boots at 4200Mhz like it always did for almost 1 full year without problem it can pass in all stress tests, including CPU and RAM tests but suddenly this started to happen, I tried Clear CMOS, tried resetting manually all the settings in BIOS but without success, sometimes the PC boots and sometimes it doesn't showing Q-Code randomly with no relation at all. Any ideas?


Your voltages don't look anywhere near high enough to degrade anything 
Save your profile to a USB and reflash and clear the bios and see if that fixes it


----------



## ViTosS

munternet said:


> Your voltages don't look anywhere near high enough to degrade anything
> Save your profile to a USB and reflash and clear the bios and see if that fixes it


I flashed to a new BIOS and the same problem, even made sure all the settings was stable again in the new BIOS, one interesting thing is that one time it was going to boot but BSOed showing ACHPI BIOS error something like that, never saw that blue screen before...


----------



## Gen.

GanjaSMK said:


> Where do I go from here? *Seperate thread link*, suggested to post here for you all to chime in
> 
> 10850K on MSI Gaming Edge Wifi most current BIOS
> 
> VCCIO 1.25 VCCSA 1.3 / DRAM 1.5v @ 4200 16-16-16-38-736; tFAW 40 PPD 0 RTL/IOL 64/62 and 8/8
> 
> KIT: G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200C14 2x16GB - Dual Rank SS B-die
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tertiary and secondary are tuned again (really slightly) further:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things I've tried that boot into windows but *produce errors *before 200% coverage in Karhu:
> 
> ? Reducing tRFC to anything lower than 350ns results in errors
> ? Increasing tREFI above 'auto' from BIOS
> ? Reducing tFAW not on produces errors but throws RTL and IOL out of whack (when on auto and is overwritten when manually plugged in BOIS)
> ? Booting and loading Windows at 4400Mhz+ is possible but does not produce AIDA scores superior to 4200-c16 (limitation of KIT? or BOARD? CHIP?)
> I am not a pro, I don't understand RAM fully so any and all insight is helpful. I've basically relied on guides and testing without truly understanding the underlying tech (IMHO).
> 
> Where can I go from here for improved performance via higher bandwidth or lower latency? Help me help me!


If you really want to fine tune your memory, let's start with 4000.

By the way, guys, how are you?


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> If you really want to fine tune your memory, let's start with 4000.
> 
> By the way, guys, how are you?


How did you get that low of a latency.. it's a Hero not an Apex so not a 2 slot board, 4000C16 should by no means be faster then my 4400C17 latency wise, RTL/IO aren't far off from what I run at 4400C17 (66/66/6/6), only thing different is your much lower tRDWR at 10 where I need 15 for 4400C17. Even our tWR, tCWL and such is identical.. I'm not that far off at 36.3ns but still..

I'm going to try 4000 lol. Just see how much I can pull out of it.

What ODT Wr, Nom, Park are you using?


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> How did you get that low of a latency.. it's a Hero not an Apex so not a 2 slot board, 4000C16 should by no means be faster then my 4400C17 latency wise, RTL/IO aren't far off from what I run at 4400C17 (66/66/6/6), only thing different is your much lower tRDWR at 10 where I need 15 for 4400C17. Even our tWR, tCWL and such is identical.. I'm not that far off at 36.3ns but still..
> 
> I'm going to try 4000 lol. Just see how much I can pull out of it.
> 
> What ODT Wr, Nom, Park are you using?


PPD 0? Aida latency test is also sensitive to bloated windows so make sure not too much background bloat is running.


----------



## bscool

10600*/10700* will have lower latency than 10850*/10900* with same timings. Around 1.5ns+

@cstkl1 or anyone else, do you know if this also applies to 11600k vs 11700k/11900k?


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> PPD 0? Aida latency test is also sensitive to bloated windows so make sure not too much background bloat is running.


PPD 0 yeah. My windows is pretty bloaty. I always try to close as much as possible stuff in Task Manager before benchmarking but it's a several years old install with god knows how much of a mess in the registry and such..

I tried the same timings and everything as Gen. had and I got the exact same bandwidth but 38.1ns latency. That kinda means my overhead is quite large lol. It was also woefully unstable so that didn't help..I needed 1.60v DRAM to even boot it and tRDWR 10 is way too low for my DIMMs even at 4000C16 to be anywhere near stable.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Yup I don't think I have anywhere to go. I haven't fully tested but 4133-16-16-16-yada yada is about as far as I can get. LOL

I have to thank you MUCH @bscool for your suggestions.


----------



## Cpfan1

Im complete noob at overclocking, any suggestions on what i can improve, especially iols? My txp is at 4. I can lower tras and tcke but not sure if it will improve or make things worse. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Imprezzion

Cpfan1 said:


> Im complete noob at overclocking, any suggestions on what i can improve, especially iols? My txp is at 4. I can lower tras and tcke but not sure if it will improve or make things worse. Thanks in advance!
> View attachment 2488056


tWR and tCWL are where the most profit will be. They are very high now. Try 16 for both first, then see if tWR can go even lower like 14 or 12. Also try tRAS = CAS + tRCD + 2.

EDIT: If I daily say, 4400C17 and I wanna try to push for a higher frequency such as 4600. At what point in the primary timings would it generally perform worse? I'm testing at 18-19-19 now and it doesn't seem to wanna go any lower as 18-18-18 already gives quite a lot of errors lol. Even at 1.60v DRAM.


----------



## Arlina

Hi, I use 3000mhz cl15 micron e die cheap ram and tweak this image. I just changed the main timings, I don't understand subtimings. "This value is too much" do you have any suggestions that you can say lower this? Sory for bad english. Or is there any tip you can give to lower latency in rocket lake? Like round trip latency and ppd.


----------



## YaqY

Arlina said:


> Hi, I use 3000mhz cl15 micron e die cheap ram and tweak this image. I just changed the main timings, I don't understand subtimings. "This value is too much" do you have any suggestions that you can say lower this? Sory for bad english. Or is there any tip you can give to lower latency in rocket lake? Like round trip latency and ppd.
> 
> View attachment 2488098


Try Trrdl 6, trtp 6-8, tcwl 16, trdrd_sg 6-7, trdwr's all at 10-12, twrrd_sg/dg 30/26, twrwr_sg 6-7. This should be a nice boost, make sure to stress test .


----------



## Arlina

YaqY said:


> Try Trrdl 6, trtp 6-8, tcwl 16, trdrd_sg 6-7, trdwr's all at 10-12, twrrd_sg/dg 30/26, twrwr_sg 6-7. This should be a nice boost, make sure to stress test .


Thanks, i try your settings;










But Latency did not fall.


----------



## YaqY

Arlina said:


> Thanks, i try your settings;
> 
> 
> View attachment 2488140
> 
> 
> But Latency did not fall.


Aida tests idle latency not loaded. If you try imlc you will see the difference also tightening of these subs and terts improve bandwidth.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Apex is still Apex...


----------



## cstkl1

11900k - SP89
M13A - Bios 0707

Stock CPU LLC2
[email protected] 
SA/MCIO - 1.05/1.25


----------



## cstkl1

4600 is stable but hmm booting issue on restart


----------



## Cpfan1

Imprezzion said:


> tWR and tCWL are where the most profit will be. They are very high now. Try 16 for both first, then see if tWR can go even lower like 14 or 12. Also try tRAS = CAS + tRCD + 2.
> 
> EDIT: If I daily say, 4400C17 and I wanna try to push for a higher frequency such as 4600. At what point in the primary timings would it generally perform worse? I'm testing at 18-19-19 now and it doesn't seem to wanna go any lower as 18-18-18 already gives quite a lot of errors lol. Even at 1.60v DRAM.


i personally couldnt boot at 4400c17 or i had errors, i dont remember. *I solved my errors in a very weird way - i had to set io/sa to 1.36/1.34*. Only these two exact values work for me, i get errors if i go below or higher, very strange behavior and i spent like 10 hours in bios before realizing that. Cache is at 48, vcore 1.385 but i think it could go 1.38.

My tcwl is at 16 but for some reason ascock timing configurator shows wrong value. *TWR* from what ive heard* should be equal or higher than CL* and this is true, i lose like 1000mb of read/write when i set it at 12.

ill try TRAS, thanks a lot!


----------



## GanjaSMK

Cpfan1 said:


> i personally couldnt boot at 4400c17 or i had errors, i dont remember. *I solved my errors in a very weird way - i had to set io/sa to 1.36/1.34*. Only these two exact values work for me, i get errors if i go below or higher, very strange behavior and i spent like 10 hours in bios before realizing that. Cache is at 48, vcore 1.385 but i think it could go 1.38.
> 
> My tcwl is at 16 but for some reason ascock timing configurator shows wrong value. *TWR* from what ive heard* should be equal or higher than CL* and this is true, i lose like 1000mb of read/write when i set it at 12.
> 
> ill try TRAS, thanks a lot!


I'm in a similar boat. I was able to get great AIDA latency results and show improvements in r/w/c at 4133; but lowering tRFC on this kit to anything lower than 350ns (736) does not pass Karhu. 

Reverting back to 4200; but lowering tFAW and tWR to guide levels (the github one) is proving stable. 

However, I have been just throwing numbers in and testing, hoping to find a magic mix instead of taking the time to test each and every single little change to rule out things. RAM overclocking is proving way more time consuming that I had intended. So since 4200 even ratio and 16-16-16-38... I won't be breaking any records anywhere but it sure it a LOT faster in games and desktop use. 

Rather stable than on the edge IMHO. 

But @Cpfan1 my IO/SA are a lot lower. 1.24/1.26 respectively.


----------



## Cpfan1

GanjaSMK said:


> But @Cpfan1 my IO/SA are a lot lower. 1.24/1.26 respectively.


Turns out it was not my sa/io values but wrong timings in the past. It was actually TRAS (when being set below 41) for the most part that caused me getting errors, now turns out im also able to lower my io and up my sa as it "should" be.

In shadow of the tomb raider there is no difference between 320 and 280, you shouldnt be worried about this particular timing too much. B die is very voltage and temp sensitive as i just learned by myself, for "high" frequencies 1.54v is just the beginning for dram, same with SA of 1.37.


----------



## Imprezzion

Man, so close. 1 single error in 2 hours of TM5 Anta777 Extreme...

4600 18-19-19-39-340-2T. 1.60v RAM 1.45v SA 1.35v IO, ODT 80-40-40 PPD0 DLLb 0.

I wonder if the error was temp related, it did fine the first 54 minutes then threw 1 single error at 54:20 but the RAM was at 44.8 and 45.5c for the DIMMs which might be on the edge of what B-Die likes..

I should probably re-enable my DLL just to be sure..


----------



## aznguyen316

Gen. said:


> If you really want to fine tune your memory, let's start with 4000.
> 
> By the way, guys, how are you?


Thanks for this. What are voltages here?

1.5V vdimm? 1.25 IO 1.3V sa? 

I’ve currently taken my 3200-15-15-35 2x16GB bdie to 4000c17-19-19-39 at 1.45V vdimm, 1.22V IO/SA with similar sub timings as yours, but my primary are way slower - any lower (17-18-38 for example) at my set voltages gives Kathy error.

I might try pushing voltage a little further, maybe 1.5V and especially increase IO/SA to get lower primary timings. I haven’t even messed with RTL either. Using M13H and just popped back in a 10900K.


----------



## Salve1412

Got a F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA kit (XMP 16-16-16-36 1.4V). I wanted to compare it with my current one, F4-4000C16D-32GTRGB (XMP 17-18-18-38 1.4V), hoping for better overclocking results with eventually less voltage.

From what I've seen so far it looks like it's much worse. I tested both at 4400 16-17-17-36 with identical tight timings: older kit can do it with 1.485V, new one requires at least 1.5V just to boot (less DRAM voltage causes code 69 bootloop) but it fails GSAT almost immediately. Upped voltage to 1.52V and it still fails after a few minutes. Voltage gap increases even more at 4533: older kit is 99% stable in every scenario (apart from some rare GSAT errors I am dealing with by adjusting Slopes) with 1.53V, newer needs 1.6V just to boot consistently, and of course fails GSAT immediately.

Am I doing something wrong with my testing methodology or can I assume that, contrary to my expectations, the newer kit is simply worse than the older?


----------



## esa1970

Small improvement,cache 4600mhz,rtl 62/63 and iol 7/8


----------



## bscool

@Salve1412 I have quite a few different dual rank b die(4266c17, 3600c14, 3200c14 etc) and recently got the Neo 4000c16 kit and it the best kit I have with limited testing using z490 Apex/11900k. [email protected] [email protected] boot/bench [email protected] I have not done any longer term stability test as I have a z590 Apex coming.

I would think the [email protected] kits should be some of the best but it is probably somewhat still to the ram lottery gods.


----------



## EmptyIsValue

LLC 5
SA/IO 1.1/1.15
M378A1K43BB1-CPB*2


----------



## aznguyen316

Alrighty, decided to tune my ram just a little more after reading some more of the recent discussion.

I have not messed with RTL/IOL yet, because when I did, it didn't boot lol. I had changed CHA/CHB Dimm1 Rank 1 values, but maybe that's not the right ones to mess with? so any suggestions would be great - I've added my BIOS pictures for it. M13H with 10900K.

Original XMP on the ram: 2x16GB Bdie DR [email protected]
Right now I'm at [email protected] with 1.225V/1.225V IO/SA set in BIOS.
17-17-38 had errors and 17-18-38 had erros, but only changing to 17-19-38 would pass any amount of karhu. 1.5V didn't seem to help in that timing either with some other various primaries. Probably due to it being a poor bin of Bdie DR in the first place. Oh well it was really cheap.

Thanks for all the info in the thread everyone! Please send some suggestions I can apply and test.


----------



## GanjaSMK

@aznguyen316 

I'm at 4200 @ 16-16-16- with barely better results via AIDA than you. 40ns~ with 60K~ 62K~ and 58.5K~ but on MSI z490 board. I think you probably have better board that should be able to do more. I dunno.


----------



## Gen.

Imprezzion said:


> How did you get that low of a latency.. it's a Hero not an Apex so not a 2 slot board, 4000C16 should by no means be faster then my 4400C17 latency wise, RTL/IO aren't far off from what I run at 4400C17 (66/66/6/6), only thing different is your much lower tRDWR at 10 where I need 15 for 4400C17. Even our tWR, tCWL and such is identical.. I'm not that far off at 36.3ns but still..
> 
> I'm going to try 4000 lol. Just see how much I can pull out of it.
> 
> What ODT Wr, Nom, Park are you using?


I used the following settings:


Spoiler






Code:


[2021/04/08 18:14:42]
Ai Overclock Tuner [XMP I]
XMP [XMP DDR4-3000 14-14-14-34-1.35V]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
PCIE Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Enabled – Remove All limits]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [User Specify]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset Value [0]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
ALL-Core Ratio Limit [50]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-4000MHz]
Xtreme Tweaking [Disabled]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
Maximus Tweak [Mode 1]
DRAM CAS# Latency [16]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [16]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [36]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [296]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [0]
DRAM Write Latency [16]
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [0 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [40 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [0 DRAM Clock]
ODT_READ_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_READ_DELAY [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DURATION [Auto]
ODT_WRITE_DELAY [Auto]
Data Rising Slope [Auto]
Data Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope [Auto]
Cmd Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope [Auto]
Ctl Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope [Auto]
Clk Rising Slope Offset [Auto]
Data Falling Slope [Auto]
Data Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope [Auto]
Cmd Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope [Auto]
Ctl Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope [Auto]
Clk Falling Slope Offset [Auto]
DRAM RTL INIT value [67]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [62]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [7]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
Early Command Training [Auto]
SenseAmp Offset Training [Enabled]
Early ReadMPR Timing Centering 2D [Enabled]
Read MPR Training [Enabled]
Receive Enable Training [Enabled]
Jedec Write Leveling [Enabled]
LPDDR4 Write DQ DQS Retraining [Enabled]
Early Write Time Centering 2D [Auto]
Early Read Time Centering 2D [Auto]
Write Timing Centering 1D [Enabled]
Write Voltage Centering 1D [Auto]
Read Timing Centering 1D [Auto]
Dimm ODT Training* [Auto]
DIMM RON Training* [Auto]
Write Drive Strength/Equalization 2D* [Auto]
Write Slew Rate Training* [Auto]
Read ODT Training* [Auto]
Read Equalization Training* [Auto]
Read Amplifier Training* [Auto]
Write Timing Centering 2D [Auto]
Read Timing Centering 2D [Auto]
Command Voltage Centering [Auto]
Write Voltage Centering 2D [Auto]
Read Voltage Centering 2D [Auto]
Late Command Training [Auto]
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
Rank Margin Tool [Enabled]
Rank Margin Tool Per Bit [Auto]
Margin Check Limit [Disabled]
Memory Test [Disabled]
DIMM SPD Alias Test [Auto]
Receive Enable Centering 1D [Auto]
Retrain Margin Check [Disabled]
Write Drive Strength Up/Dn independently [Disabled]
CMD Drive Strength and Tx Equalization [Auto]
CMD Slew Rate Training [Auto]
Command Normalization [Disabled]
Early DQ Write Drive Strength and Equalization Training [Disabled]
Read Voltage Centering 1D [Enabled]
Dimm ODT CA Training [Enabled]
DQ DFE Training [Disabled]
tRDRD_sg_Training [6]
tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
tRDRD_dg_Training [4]
tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [28]
tWRRD_dg [24]
tRDRD_dr [5]
tRDRD_dd [0]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [0]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [0]
tWRRD_dr [5]
tWRRD_dd [0]
TWRPRE [32]
TRDPRE [6]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [0]
TXP [4]
PPD [0]
MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
Delay after Train [Disabled]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
Trace Centering [Disabled]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
Training Profile [Standard Profile]
DLLBwEn [2]
Legacy Mode [Disabled]
SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
XTU Setting [Auto]
Voltage Monitor [Die Sense]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 8]
Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Disabled]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
Active Frequency Mode [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [Extreme]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU Power Thermal Control [130]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
DRAM Current Capability [130%]
DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]
CPU Core/Cache Boot Voltage [Auto]
DMI Boot Voltage [Auto]
CPU System Agent Boot Voltage [Auto]
CPU VCCIO Boot Voltage [Auto]
PLL Termination Boot voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Boot Voltage [Auto]
CPU Core Auto Voltage Cap [Auto]
CPU VCCIO Auto Voltage Cap [Auto]
CPU System Agent Auto Voltage Cap [Auto]
Package Temperature Threshold [Auto]
Regulate Frequency by above Threshold [Auto]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.75]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
Package Power Time Window [448]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
V-Max Stress [Disabled]
Overclocking TVB [Disabled]
Offset Mode Sign 1 [+]
V/F Point 1 Offset [Auto]
Offset Mode Sign 2 [+]
V/F Point 2 Offset [Auto]
Offset Mode Sign 3 [+]
V/F Point 3 Offset [Auto]
Offset Mode Sign 4 [+]
V/F Point 4 Offset [Auto]
Offset Mode Sign 5 [+]
V/F Point 5 Offset [Auto]
Offset Mode Sign 6 [+]
V/F Point 6 Offset [Auto]
Offset Mode Sign 7 [+]
V/F Point 7 Offset [Auto]
Offset Mode Sign 8 [+]
V/F Point 8 Offset [Auto]
Realtime Memory Timing [Enabled]
FCLK Frequency for Early Power On [1GHz]
Initial BCLK Frequency [Auto]
BCLK Amplitude [Auto]
BCLK Slew Rate [Auto]
BCLK Spread Spectrum [Auto]
BCLK Frequency Slew Rate [Auto]
PCIE/DMI Amplitude [Auto]
PCIE/DMI Spread Spectrum [Auto]
PCIE/DMI Frequency Slew Rate [Auto]
PCIE/DMI Slew Rate [Auto]
Cold Boot PCIE Frequency [Auto]
DRAM VTT Voltage [0.70000]
VPPDDR Voltage [2.50000]
DMI Voltage [1.15000]
Internal PLL Voltage [Auto]
GT PLL Voltage [Auto]
Ring PLL Voltage [Auto]
System Agent PLL Voltage [Auto]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]
PLL Bandwidth [Auto]
Eventual DRAM Voltage [Auto]
Eventual CPU Standby Voltage [Auto]
Eventual PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
Eventual CPU VCCIO Voltage [Auto]
Eventual DMI Voltage [Auto]
PVD Ratio Threshold [Auto]
System Agent Bandgap Workaround [Auto]
Package Temperature Threshold [Auto]
Regulate Frequency by above Threshold [Auto]
Cooler Efficiency Customize [Keep Training]
Cooler Re-evaluation Algorithm [Normal]
Optimism Scale [100]
Ring Down Bin [Disabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [47]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [47]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Manual Mode]
- CPU Core Voltage Override [1.200]
DRAM Voltage [1.40000]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.16000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.20000]
PLL Termination Voltage [1.00000]
PCH Core Voltage [1.05000]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM0 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank0 BL7 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL0 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL1 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL2 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL3 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL4 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL5 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL6 [Auto]
DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB DIMM1 Rank1 BL7 [Auto]
PCI Express Native Power Management [Disabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
ASPM [Disabled]
L1 Substates [Disabled]
PCI Express Clock Gating [Enabled]
DMI Link ASPM Control [Disabled]
PEG - ASPM [Disabled]
Software Guard Extensions (SGX) [Disabled]
Tcc Offset Time Window [Auto]
Hardware Prefetcher [Enabled]
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch [Enabled]
Intel (VMX) Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
Active Processor Cores [All]
Hyper-Threading [Enabled]
Hyper-Threading of Core 0 [Enabled]
Hyper-Threading of Core 1 [Enabled]
Hyper-Threading of Core 2 [Enabled]
Hyper-Threading of Core 3 [Enabled]
Hyper-Threading of Core 4 [Enabled]
Hyper-Threading of Core 5 [Enabled]
MonitorMWait [Enabled]
Boot performance mode [Turbo Performance]
Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) [Auto]
Intel(R) Speed Shift Technology [Disabled]
Turbo Mode [Enabled]
CPU C-states [Disabled]
Thermal Monitor [Enabled]
Dual Tau Boost [Disabled]
VT-d [Disabled]
Memory Remap [Enabled]
PCIEX16_1 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIEX16_2 Link Speed [Auto]
PCIe Speed [Auto]
SATA Controller(s) [Enabled]
SATA Mode Selection [AHCI]
Aggressive LPM Support [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [None]
SATA6G_1(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_1 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_2(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_2 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_3(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_3 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_4(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_4 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_5(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_5 Hot Plug [Disabled]
SATA6G_6(Black) [Enabled]
SATA6G_6 Hot Plug [Disabled]
PTT [Disable]
Discrete Thunderbolt(TM) Support [Disabled]
Above 4G Decoding [Enabled]
Re-Size BAR Support [Disabled]
SR-IOV Support [Disabled]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
XHCI Hand-off [Enabled]
SanDisk [Auto]
U32G2_3 [Enabled]
U32G2_4 [Enabled]
U32G2_5 [Enabled]
U32G1_7 [Enabled]
U32G1_8 [Enabled]
U32G1_E1 [Enabled]
U32G1_E2 [Enabled]
U32G1_E3 [Enabled]
U32G1_E4 [Enabled]
USB11 [Enabled]
USB12 [Enabled]
U32G2_1 [Enabled]
U32G2_C6 [Enabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
PCIe Bandwidth Bifurcation Configuration [Auto]
HD Audio [Enabled]
Intel 1G LAN [Disabled]
MARVELL 5G LAN [Disabled]
USB power delivery in Soft Off state (S5) [Enabled]
Connectivity mode (Wi-Fi & Bluetooth) [Enabled]
When system is in working state [All On]
Q-Code LED Function [POST Code Only]
When system is in sleep, hibernate or soft off states [Stealth Mode]
M.2_1 Configuration [Auto]
M.2_2 Configuration [Auto]
M.2_3 Configuration [Auto]
U32G2_C6 Type C Power Mode [Auto]
Restore AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Energy Star Ready [Disabled]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Power On By PCI-E [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Device [Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Package Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
VRM Temperature [Monitor]
Chipset Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
Water In T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
Water Out T Sensor Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
High Amp Fan Speed [Monitor]
Water Pump+ Speed [Monitor]
AIO Pump Speed [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
Flow Rate [Monitor]
AI Cooling [Disabled]
CPU Fan Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
CPU Fan Step Up [0 sec]
CPU Fan Step Down [0 sec]
CPU Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Fan Upper Temperature [65]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
CPU Fan Middle Temperature [50]
CPU Fan Middle Duty Cycle (%) [50]
CPU Fan Lower Temperature [30]
CPU Fan Min Duty Cycle (%) [30]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 2 Step Up [0 sec]
Chassis Fan 2 Step Down [0 sec]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [80]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Duty Cycle (%) [50]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [30]
Chassis Fan 2 Min Duty Cycle (%) [35]
Chassis Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
Chassis Fan 3 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 3 Step Up [0 sec]
Chassis Fan 3 Step Down [0 sec]
Chassis Fan 3 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 3 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 3 Upper Temperature [80]
Chassis Fan 3 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [60]
Chassis Fan 3 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 3 Middle Duty Cycle (%) [50]
Chassis Fan 3 Lower Temperature [30]
Chassis Fan 3 Min Duty Cycle (%) [35]
High Amp Fan Q-Fan Control [DC Mode]
High Amp Fan Q-Fan Source [CPU]
High Amp Fan Step Up [0 sec]
High Amp Fan Step Down [0 sec]
High Amp Fan Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
High Amp Fan Profile [Standard]
Water Pump+ Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
AIO Pump Q-Fan Control [Disabled]
CPU Temperature LED Switch [Enabled]
Launch CSM [Disabled]
OS Type [Other OS]
Fast Boot [Enabled]
Next Boot after AC Power Loss [Fast Boot]
Boot Logo Display [Auto]
POST Delay Time [3 sec]
Bootup NumLock State [On]
Wait For &#39;F1&#39; If Error [Enabled]
AMI Native NVMe Driver Support [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Force BIOS]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
Boot Sector (MBR/GPT) Recovery Policy [Local User Control]
Next Boot Recovery Action [Skip]
Flexkey [Reset]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Profile Name []
Save to Profile [1]
DIMM Slot Number [DIMM_A2]
Download & Install ARMOURY CRATE app [Disabled]





By the way, guys, I have already been sent a whale F4-4000C16D-32GTSRA, on May 5-10 it should be with me. Let's see what he's capable of.
I also notify you about XMP 4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V. 

@aznguyen316 , Let's correspond in private messages?


----------



## Arctucas

EmptyIsValue said:


> LLC 5
> SA/IO 1.1/1.15
> M378A1K43BB1-CPB*2
> 
> View attachment 2488246


9900K on Z170 motherboard, interesting.


----------



## Arctucas

Gen. said:


> If you really want to fine tune your memory, let's start with 4000.
> 
> By the way, guys, how are you?


What is the advantage and/or effect of setting the _DD to 0?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Removed the stock Ripjaws heatsink from my 32GB 4266C17 kit now sticks are running 3-4C cooler with a 100% noctua fan. Improved Vref/ODTs now I don't need slopes (auto slopes).
32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.57v DRAM 1.32v IO 1.33v SA 2H GSAT and 1H Ramtest


----------



## encrypted11

i9-11900K (SP89) @stock---4800Mhz-C19-28-28-48-1T----1.66V---SA 1.2V---MCIO 1.26V---Stressapptest----1 Hour










Trying mem OC on my SP89, turns out the IMC is a lot more finicky requiring specific voltage ranges for SA/IO to stay away from errors. 

My SP85 would train 5066MHz C20 1T easily though it needs a little more voltage in the IMC and does away with 10-20mV less VDIMM at each frequency point. SP89 has a noticeable hard wall with memory scaling, mostly no POST up till 1.4V SA/IO for 5066 C20.

Might attempt 5066 C20 1T GSAT 1H on my SP85 soon.


----------



## Arlina

Other users values seem the opposite, do I have a problem?


----------



## maniek919

Hi, I've been trying for 2 weeks and still can't get below 40 latency
Maybe someone will suggest?









F4-4400C18D (18-19-19-39) 1.4 model


----------



## eeroo94

maniek919 said:


> Hi, I've been trying for 2 weeks and still can't get below 40 latency
> Maybe someone will suggest?
> View attachment 2488415
> 
> 
> F4-4400C18D (18-19-19-39) 1.4 model


Enable round trip latency under memory training.


----------



## maniek919

eeroo94 said:


> Enable round trip latency under memory training.


Yes enabled


----------



## SgtRotty

maniek919 said:


> Yes enabled


Enable trace centering also. RTLs look a little off, might need to train again
tRRD_L at 6. tRRD_S at 4
Loosen tRAS to 34
Loosen tRTP to 8 and tWR to 16
Retrain memory see what happens. 
Your RTLs are 58/65 to far apart


----------



## bscool

Arlina said:


> Other users values seem the opposite, do I have a problem?
> 
> View attachment 2488408


Nope that is normal for RKL vs CML.


----------



## RODRIGUESF

hello guys, i have been seeing this topic in last few weeks and i guess i acomplish my limit of my ram overclocked but only you guys can tell me if i can tight even more or not.
have that said, please let me now you opinion about my oc. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Arctucas

maniek919 said:


> Hi, I've been trying for 2 weeks and still can't get below 40 latency
> Maybe someone will suggest?
> View attachment 2488415
> 
> 
> F4-4400C18D (18-19-19-39) 1.4 model


 tXP = 4?


----------



## RODRIGUESF

SgtRotty said:


> Enable trace centering also. RTLs look a little off, might need to train again
> tRRD_L at 6. tRRD_S at 4
> Loosen tRAS to 34
> Loosen tRTP to 8 and tWR to 16
> Retrain memory see what happens.
> Your RTLs are 58/65 to far apart


Where is trace centering? And what it does?


----------



## SunnyStefan

Made some progress, this is my current daily configuration. Next up is to reach 70K Read/Write while sticking with CL16 if possible.

4444 MHz 16-17-17-32-2T
VDIMM: 1.590 V
VCCIO: 1.390 V
VCCSA: 1.375 V


----------



## SunnyStefan

SlayersBoner said:


> Looks good, put it through LinX 0.9.10 or 0.9.11 for an hour at 35k problem size to make sure you are calculating properly. If the residuals don't match, it means you are unstable.


So far this OC has survived GSAT (2hrs), TM5 Extreme (3/3 cycles), and Karhu (15K%), but I'll give LinX a shot.
I haven't used Linpack Xtreme before, is there any reason I shouldn't be installing the latest version, 1.1.15?

Far too many people swear by outdated versions of Prime95 because of misinformation surrounding AVX.
The newer P95 builds are more stressful, find errors faster, and give you the option to disable AVX if desired.


----------



## Cpfan1

ripjaws b-die owners come here!

how much voltage you have on your sticks before they become unstable at lets say 330 trfc 65024 trefi? Do you use fans at them? Mine have a decent potential but i always get 1-2 errors at 13-14 minutes of TM5 superlight2


----------



## YaqY

SlayersBoner said:


> Does anyone know if you contact gskill to void the product warranty that they will remove the artificial voltage limit?


What do you mean by artificial voltage limit?? Your bdie still scales over 1.5V it just can't hold full capacity stable above that voltage, this differs along kits. Both my g.skill kits take 1.6V+ stable full capacity.


----------



## BotSkill

SlayersBoner said:


> I had it at full capacity 1.55v 16-16-16-34-2T 4400mhz fully tightened subs LinX stable, results are posted within the last 15 pages(estimate). I also had it aida64 simultaneousl cache/memory tested stable with full capacity. I also had it hci stable with full capacity. I'm 100% certain being artificially voltage limited, i can literally see in real time every time they make a change, My modem wifi blinks right before instability kicks in EVERY SINGLE TIME. I use ethernet cable to internet. 20 out of 20 times wifi modem light will blink/flicker a second before they become unstable. It's not a coincidence. Had them in p95 large fma 3 at the c16-4400 1.55v profile within the last week, same thing, wifi light flickered/blinked and then the test failed. They are artificially limiting me. If I void the warranty, are they gonna let me pump as much voltage as I want for daily use or no? I already know these dimms can handle the heat, had them up to 47c no errors just fine.


Are you sure is not a temperature instability ? Slam a fan on them and try again. B-Die is verry sensitive about temps.

Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 4a (5G) folosind Tapatalk


----------



## eeroo94

SlayersBoner said:


> I had it at full capacity 1.55v 16-16-16-34-2T 4400mhz fully tightened subs LinX stable, results are posted within the last 15 pages(estimate). I also had it aida64 simultaneousl cache/memory tested stable with full capacity. I also had it hci stable with full capacity. I'm 100% certain being artificially voltage limited, i can literally see in real time every time they make a change, My modem wifi blinks right before instability kicks in EVERY SINGLE TIME. I use ethernet cable to internet. 20 out of 20 times wifi modem light will blink/flicker a second before they become unstable. It's not a coincidence. Had them in p95 large fma 3 at the c16-4400 1.55v profile within the last week, same thing, wifi light flickered/blinked and then the test failed. They are artificially limiting me. If I void the warranty, are they gonna let me pump as much voltage as I want for daily use or no? I already know these dimms can handle the heat, had them up to 47c no errors just fine.


Are you suggesting that g.skill is sending some signal via internet to artificially throttle your ripjaws? Sounds pretty far fetched.


----------



## YaqY

Don’t listen to this clown he’s on one.


----------



## YaqY

eeroo94 said:


> Are you suggesting that g.skill is sending some signal via internet to artificially throttle your ripjaws? Sounds pretty far fetched.


Judging by two over 2000 word dm he sent me and then blocks me straight after thinking I work for gskill he’s had a couple too many drinks.


----------



## techenth

SlayersBoner said:


> Listen man, SOMEBODY is doing it. It's either gskill, intel or people from this website. i'm 100% positive. This isn't my first rodeo ok? My IQ is 168, I know whats going on ok? All it takes is for one industry employee to flip ok? Enough of this nonsense.











If CPUs are starting to be limited by memory bandwidth...


I have read somewhere that memory is becoming a bottleneck for modern CPUs. If that's the case, why AMD and Intel don't use QDR memory or use more memory channels (3 or 4) for mainstream sockets?




www.overclock.net


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi...

Do you think there is a way to lower latency?
I'll appreciate any suggestion !


----------



## Jpmboy

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hi...
> 
> Do you think there is a way to lower latency?
> I'll appreciate any suggestion !


lower the RTLs if the sticks and board can handle it. RTLs are the most important timings affecting latency or any measurement which requires a trip off the sticks. Also tWR and tWCL should be able to go at least 2 ticks below CAS. Then.. is CAS (tCL) the lowest value the stick can POST at?


----------



## techenth

Pushed my Tomahawk to its limits. Couldn't get 4700 boot stable and 4600 stable at C17, but 4533C16 seems fine so far.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I have the same problem, the wlan Flash faster and faster, the memory speed raise up higher and higher and then Bam bluescreen.
I have done a Screenshot before.^^









P.s.
GSkill selekted Ripjaws V 3200Cl14-14


----------



## RODRIGUESF

techenth said:


> Pushed my Tomahawk to its limits. Couldn't get 4700 boot stable and 4600 stable at C17, but 4533C16 seems fine so far.
> 
> View attachment 2488571


dram is kinda high, you have fan on it?


----------



## esa1970

Memory speed test:Aida 64 vs Geekbench 3
This is older set.:
















And the newest set:
















Aida 64 result is almost same,but Geekbench 3 get 250 points more.Much bigger improvement.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> I have the same problem, the wlan Flash faster and faster, the memory speed raise up higher and higher and then Bam bluescreen.
> I have done a Screenshot before.^^
> View attachment 2488654
> 
> 
> P.s.
> GSkill selekted Ripjaws V 3200Cl14-14


Here's mine


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@SoldierRBT
ich have tested a little bit for hot summer, how stable it will be with [email protected],55V.

With my Set slope is odt 80/48/40 arround 35° bootstable.Over that it gives boot problems and by 40° H2O and 45°+ on mem i have get a mem error.
Gsat is also okay, the most Problem is really the boot stability.

I will never seen more as 35°H2O so it is ok.For really hot Temps 50° on Mem i think is 4600CL17-17 the Limit.

4700Cl17 for 24/7 is too much with hard subs from 18°-35°H2O with low voltage's in my case.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> @SoldierRBT
> ich have tested a little bit for hot summer, how stable it will be with [email protected],55V.
> 
> With my Set slope is odt 80/48/40 arround 35° bootstable.Over that it gives boot problems and by 40° H2O and 45°+ on mem i have get a mem error.
> Gsat is also okay, the most Problem is really the boot stability.
> 
> I will never seen more as 35°H2O so it is ok.For really hot Temps 50° on Mem i think is 4600CL17-17 the Limit.
> 
> 4700Cl17 for 24/7 is too much with hard subs from 18°-35°H2O with low voltage's in my case.


Been using 4600C17-17 1.56v for past month no issues. 4666C17-17 1.58v it's stable but I had boot issues from time to time. 4700C17-17 haven't been able to boot. 4700C16-17 boots but it's hard to make it stable, probably a bench profile.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@SoldierRBT
Test it with higher ODT's, before i had 80/40/34 but at higher H2O temps it's not good.
In my case 80/48/40 are better for more temp range.
80/40/34 is good at cold temps.

For simulate summer i have stop all fans and have run Furmark for over 30min to reach up to 40°H2O.
I want to know how the max stability range is.

I think 4666CL17-17 will be stable in every case with my watercooling System.

P.s.
You can also do one setting for summer and one for cold temps at same frequency.


----------



## Cpfan1

Any ideas on how to get 68k read out of this thing? Ripjaws heatsinks 1.5v dram 1.38 sa/io, 49 ring. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan1 said:


> Any ideas on how to get 68k read out of this thing? Ripjaws heatsinks 1.5v dram 1.38 sa/io, 49 ring. Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 2489022


Aim for 4700mhz. 70k easy 😎


----------



## Cpfan1

Nizzen said:


> Aim for 4700mhz. 70k easy 😎


Sadly this kit walls at 4600 18-19-41 (or 17-19-40), giving me 3-6 errors in TM5 extreme. I dont trust ripjaws "heatsinks" to feed them more than 1.57v.


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan1 said:


> Sadly this kit walls at 4600 18-19-41 (or 17-19-40), giving me 3-6 errors in TM5 extreme. I dont trust ripjaws "heatsinks" to feed them more than 1.57v.


We are using watercooling on the dimm 

Rip V heatsinks is easy to uninstall 🥳


----------



## Arlina

Hi, I use 3000mhz cl15 micron e die cheap ram and tweak this image. I just changed the main timings, I don't understand subtimings. "This value is too much" do you have any suggestions that you can say lower this? Or is there any tip you can give to lower latency in rocket lake? Like round trip latency and ppd.

Micron E Die


----------



## nikolaus85

This is my setup: i7 10700k, 16gb patriot 4400mhz cl 19, z490 unify. I running memory 4400mhz cl 17 18 18 36 at 1.520 ram voltage and 1.38/1.28 sa/io. Latency around 36 ms. I think it is not bad, but i would like to squeeze out some more performance if possible. Iols are 64-68, 7-8. Any advices would be very appreciated.


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> We are using watercooling on the dimm
> 
> Rip V heatsinks is easy to uninstall 🥳


I'm stuck at this point with the guide i have been using. There is no mention about RTL, IO-L, TCKE and other values.
Higher than 4300mhz causes problems. 
The ram-kit is g.skill 3600mhz [email protected]

I'm running the ram at 1.5v, SA 1.40v, IO 1.30.

Any help with some values that can be improved?


----------



## jeiselramos

I Have a maximus xii Extreme with 4x8gb at 4300 16-16-16-34 and cpu at 5.2/46.
An Apex With 2x8 4533 17-17-17-36 cpu 5.3/50.
My cpu with the Extreme Is 7-8º hotter i think for dual rank or dual dimm.
If I put 2x16 on the Apex the temperature and clock Will be the same as the Extreme?


----------



## SoldierRBT

32GB 4533 16-17-17-32 1.60v 1.31v IO 1.34v SA TM5 Extreme Max temp: 37C


----------



## jeiselramos

SoldierRBT said:


> 32GB 4533 16-17-17-32 1.60v 1.31v IO 1.34v SA TM5 Extreme Max temp: 37C
> 
> View attachment 2489332


Do you pass occt extreme large data set?


----------



## ObviousCough

*F4-3800C14D-32GTZN *

This has been my daily for a few weeks. 1.35v SA/IO and 1.55vdimm. i started at 1.35 on sa and io then never changed them, i may be able to get away with less. I needed 1.55v vdimm exactly to keep errors from popping up in TM5E at 4133C14.









I got really irritated by the 36ns barrier i was hitting and decided to smash the hell out of it one night










I'm bored now though and want to see if increasing my bandwidth will gimme some more fps in a couple cpu bound games. I was thinking 4400c16 should be doable.


----------



## RODRIGUESF

Hello guys, 10 days ago I posted here what i think is the best i can do in terms of overclocking with 32 GB in my daisy chain motherboard: 











then, I decided to remove 16GB and see what i could accomplish.. and the results are:





















having said that, you guys think i can do even better?

anyway, I want to thank everyone in this post because without you i couldn't accomplish these results.

Thank you in advance


----------



## nikolaus85

RODRIGUESF said:


> Hello guys, 10 days ago I posted here what i think is the best i can do in terms of overclocking with 32 GB in my daisy chain motherboard:
> 
> View attachment 2489595
> 
> 
> 
> then, I decided to remove 16GB and see what i could accomplish.. and the results are:
> 
> View attachment 2489594
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2489597
> 
> 
> having said that, you guys think i can do even better?
> 
> anyway, I want to thank everyone in this post because without you i couldn't accomplish these results.
> 
> Thank you in advance


how did you pass tm5 extreme preset? I got a unify with 10700k and 16 patriot 4400cl 19 and i pass kahru 20000%, memtest pro 400 %, but never passed tm5 extreme preset. Which settings did you change? With same settings, tm5 extreme on the 1st run gave me error on test 13 after 2 hours, the second time gave me 1 error after 30 seconds on the test 4. It is a totally nosense.


----------



## RODRIGUESF

nikolaus85 said:


> how did you pass tm5 extreme preset? I got a unify with 10700k and 16 patriot 4400cl 19 and i pass kahru 20000%, memtest pro 400 %, but never passed tm5 extreme preset. Which settings did you change? With same settings, tm5 extreme on the 1st run gave me error on test 13 after 2 hours, the second time gave me 1 error after 30 seconds on the test 4. It is a totally nosense.


Well, the only thing is not mentioned in images is ODT'S. which is 80-40-48 CHA&CHB.. Ah! and I have a 120mm fan Pointed to the dimms on top of the graphics card(this made a huge difference, tRFC and tREFI are really pleased for that ) Avg Temps are 34.5° degrees while gaming. 

That's it. I hope this info helps. Let me know, thanks


----------



## nikolaus85

RODRIGUESF said:


> Well, the only thing is not mentioned in images is ODT'S. which is 80-40-48 CHA&CHB.. Ah! and I have a 120mm fan Pointed to the dimms on top of the graphics card(this made a huge difference, tRFC and tREFI are really pleased for that ) Avg Temps are 34.5° degrees while gaming.
> 
> That's it. I hope this info helps. Let me know, thanks


hello. What ODT voices do you mean exactly and what do they do? I checked mine, my auto values are 80/240 wr/park channel a and b. I don't know my ram temperature because my ram have no temp sensor like the gskills.


----------



## RODRIGUESF

nikolaus85 said:


> hello. What ODT voices do you mean exactly and what do they do? I checked mine, my auto values are 80/240 wr/park channel a and b. I don't know my ram temperature because my ram have no temp sensor like the gskills.


*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread I used this page to understand what it means and what actually they do.


----------



## nikolaus85

RODRIGUESF said:


> _Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread I used this page to understand what it means and what actually they do.


i saw. But are those value for dual rank? My ram are single rank.


----------



## mickyc357

I'm currently running 2x8gb 4400 patriot c19s in my z490 Aorus pro ax / 10900k system and looking to upgrade to dual rank. Ive got them running at 4400 17-18-18-37, trfc 300. Unfortunately my board doesn't do well with 4 sticks (has errors even at 4000 c19) so I'm weighing up between 2 gskill kits. 

Trident Z RGB
DDR4-4266MHz CL17-18-18-38 1.50V
32GB (2x16GB)

Trident Z RGB
DDR4-4000MHz CL16-16-16-36 1.40V
32GB (2x16GB)

They both cost the same and I'm assuming would be binned similarly?


----------



## RODRIGUESF

nikolaus85 said:


> i saw. But are those value for dual rank? My ram are single rank.


I have no clue.. Test it.


----------



## nikolaus85

RODRIGUESF said:


> I have no clue.. Test it.


i have done, but always pops up error. I have set my ram to 1.550, sa and io are 1.4.and 1.370. In all the other memtest i am stable, just anta extreme it is impossible to pass.


----------



## bscool

@nikolaus85 It looks like you have some timing or setting off. Your copy is really low. It should be 6-8000mb higher. Edit on single ranks it should still be in the 60,000+ range from when I have ran single rank on z490 Unify/10700k with similar clocks and timings.


----------



## RODRIGUESF

nikolaus85 said:


> i have done, but always pops up error. I have set my ram to 1.550, sa and io are 1.4.and 1.370. In all the other memtest i am stable, just anta extreme it is impossible to pass.
> View attachment 2489859


OK since you don't have a sensor temp in your memory's, I'd give a shot and put a fan pointed to the sticks on top of gpu and run extreme anta test again.


----------



## nikolaus85

bscool said:


> @nikolaus85 It looks like you have some timing or setting off. Your copy is really low. It should be 6-8000mb higher. Edit on single ranks it should still be in the 60,000+ range from when I have ran single rank on z490 Unify/10700k with similar clocks and timings.


you are right, i was too low. I followed anta's suggestion and change my timings (trtp=twr/2, and trdwr timings)
that is the result:









I think is not bad, but im still not stable in tm5 xtreme preset: sometimes it pops error after 20 second, sometimes after 40 min.


----------



## nikolaus85

RODRIGUESF said:


> OK since you don't have a sensor temp in your memory's, I'd give a shot and put a fan pointed to the sticks on top of gpu and run extreme anta test again.


do you think it is just a problem of temperature? Does tm heat ram more than other tests? What voltages would you recommend for my setup? Thanks.


----------



## RODRIGUESF

nikolaus85 said:


> do you think it is just a problem of temperature? Does tm heat ram more than other tests? What voltages would you recommend for my setup? Thanks.


Yes, it really heats with that cfg, I tested myself with and without fan and the difference was indeed noticeable, like, 8/9°degrees less wtih a fan.


----------



## nikolaus85

RODRIGUESF said:


> Yes, it really heats with that cfg, I tested myself with and without fan and the difference was indeed noticeable, like, 8/9°degrees less wtih a fan.


do you have pic of the fan you put near the ram? I tried open my case e set my 3 bequiet on the front on their max speed (2200 rpm). Let's see if it helps.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## RODRIGUESF

nikolaus85 said:


> do you have pic of the fan you put near the ram? I tried open my case e set my 3 bequiet on the front on their max speed (2200 rpm). Let's see if it helps.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk





nikolaus85 said:


> do you have pic of the fan you put near the ram? I tried open my case e set my 3 bequiet on the front on their max speed (2200 rpm). Let's see if it helps.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

@nikolaus85 if it is sometimes error after 40 sec that it probably not heat related and your timings are "drifting" with z490 MSI you need to disable training to "lock" in RTL/IOLs once you have them trained to what you want.









Z490 Tomahawk "Manually" setting RTL/IO-L help...


ok, going to do my best to describe this issue im having, and took BIOS pic to show EXACTLY what i have to set to make this easier for you smart people. So my goal tonight is to manually set my RTL's and IO-L's to the following 71 (empty) 59 (Actual Dimm in this slot 71 (empty) 61 (Actual...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Imprezzion

Yup, that is pretty important on MSI lol.

Got a question. What is holding me back in the following scenario with a 10900KF, MSI Z490 Ace, 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die.

I am now running 100% stable in any possible stresstest at: 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T with full manual secondaries and tertiaries and RTL IO at 1.40v SA 1.30v IO 1.50v DRAM. ODT 80-40-40 both channels, DLL 0, PPD off.










Now, I wanted to see if I could push the frequency a bit but any frequency over 4400 no matter the timings will error out very quickly in TM5. Temps shouldn't be an issue, it runs 4400C17 around 39-42c (with a fan) at 1.50v and I ran 1.60v at 4200C15 as well which is about 45-48c (getting up there) but it was stable at least.

I tried 4533 17-19-19-39-370-2T for example but no matter what I do with the voltages, RTL, ODT or subtimings it just doesn't seem to wanna run it at all. I did once get it close to stable but that was a super high primary timings and super loose secondaries (4533 18-20-20-40-450-2T) and a LOT of voltage (1.45v SA 1.40v IO 1.63v DRAM) which makes no sense scaling wise as it'll do 4400C17 at such relatively low voltages.

Is 4400 just the max the board topology or the CPU IMC will handle or am I overlooking something..

It's not the DIMM's, they can do much more. I tested them on a Crosshair VIII Hero with a 5800X in non sync mode with the Infinity Fabric and they did 4600 18-18-18-38-360-2T just fine at 1.52v so the DIMM's themselved _should_ go higher then 4400C17 on Intel.


----------



## nikolaus85

bscool said:


> @nikolaus85 if it is sometimes error after 40 sec that it probably not heat related and your timings are "drifting" with z490 MSI you need to disable training to "lock" in RTL/IOLs once you have them trained to what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z490 Tomahawk "Manually" setting RTL/IO-L help...
> 
> 
> ok, going to do my best to describe this issue im having, and took BIOS pic to show EXACTLY what i have to set to make this easier for you smart people. So my goal tonight is to manually set my RTL's and IO-L's to the following 71 (empty) 59 (Actual Dimm in this slot 71 (empty) 61 (Actual...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


i have the training on auto, but i locked manually my iols and rtls to 64/66 ans 7/8. They never change. If i disable the training will it help?









Just 1 error on test 8 after 50 mins, with a fan facing the ram like Rodrigo told me. Is it a good resulti? Would raising a bit vcore help to solve the error at test 8? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

@nikolaus85 if your timings never change then keep doing what your doing. Only way to find out if raising vcore will help is try it.


----------



## nikolaus85

bscool said:


> @nikolaus85 if your timings never change then keep doing what your doing. Only way to find out if raising vcore will help is try it.


should i stop the test or let it go till the end? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

@Imprezzion I have usually kept tCKE at 7 and tRRD_L at 6 on MSI z490 as I saw little gain from lowering it and it seemed to make it harder to keep stable. Also I found ODTs 80-60-60 worked best for me on DR b die. Not saying 80-60-60 is best for you just sharing what I found.

I have ran 4533c16 on the Unify but I settle on 4400c16 as it requires less voltage to get stable. I have half dozen 2x16 kits(from 3200c14, 3600c16, 3600c14, 4266c17 etc) and all do 4400c16-17-17 pretty easy on the Unify. That is with 10850k and 10700k.


----------



## RODRIGUESF

bscool said:


> @Imprezzion I have usually kept tCKE at 7 and tRRD_L at 6 on MSI z490 as I saw little gain from lowering it and it seemed to make it harder to keep stable. Also I found ODTs 80-60-60 worked best for me on DR b die. Not saying 80-60-60 is best for you just sharing what I found.
> 
> I have ran 4533c16 on the Unify but I settle on 4400c16 as it requires less voltage to get stable. I have half dozen 2x16 kits(from 3200c14, 3600c16, 3600c14, 4266c17 etc) and all do 4400c16-17-17 pretty easy on the Unify. That is with 10850k and 10700k.


Latency and bandwidth with that frequency?


----------



## bscool

With 4533? I don't know as I don't have to system hooked up right now and I am not sure if I even kept any of the screen shots. The only thing I have saved on OneDrive is 4400c16-17-17 with 10700k


----------



## esa1970

My latest setup.Could someone tell me why my latency is so high?Ppd=0/Txp=4


----------



## munternet

esa1970 said:


> My latest setup.Could someone tell me why my latency is so high?Ppd=0/Txp=4
> 
> View attachment 2489907
> 
> View attachment 2489908


Did you reboot and test straight after?
My setup is similar. Maybe there's something on there you can try


----------



## Salve1412

esa1970 said:


> My latest setup.Could someone tell me why my latency is so high?Ppd=0/Txp=4
> 
> View attachment 2489907
> 
> View attachment 2489908


Mmm, with 4400MHz profile 1.485 DRAM Voltage on my Extreme I used to get about 35.7ns latency. Most of my timings were similar to yours, except for lower tRFC (308) and tRDRD_sg (6): the first one in particular should have an impact in latency, the second in read/copy bandwidth. On the other hand I had higher tCWL (15) paired with tRDWRs at 10 (tRDWRs give a nice boost in Copy scores): in my experience after a certain point you can't go really low with tCWL if you don't rise tRDWRs at the same time in order to counterbalance (otherwise system simply won't boot) and vice versa, but focusing on lowest possible tRDWRs values should reward with the best performance gains.

Moreover, I had IOls 7 and RTLs 62-62-63-63: they also have an impact in terms of latency. But I used (I still do) BIOS version 1003, because newer revisions have changed something in RTL training and I had issues booting with the aforementioned values.

Finally, my Cache is at 4900MHz. From AIDA it looks like you are at 4600MHz, is it right? You can try to raise it, it should grant lower latency.

I still think, though, that apart from these potential adjustments your latency is too high, considering you have PPD=0. Maybe something running in background?


----------



## nikolaus85

finally i decided to go with 4400c16 since i request less voltage and the performances are really good. I think i solved the problem with anta's test 5 setting tcke on auto, but i have another problem with test 4, that i cant solve. What is test 4 related? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

How high would you be willing to go with tCWL just to drop tRDWR? I am at 15's now and they won't budge with tCWL at 16.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> How high would you be willing to go with tCWL just to drop tRDWR? I am at 15's now and they won't budge with tCWL at 16.


There is a tradeoff between TCWL and TRDWR's, if you go 1 higher in TCWL then your TRDWR's should go 1 lower for the same performance but lower TCWL may improve write performance. Example, TCL 16 + TRDWRS 10 + TCWL 16, is the same burst gap as TCL 16 + TRDWRS 12 + TCWL 14.


----------



## robalm

Hi guys!

I have seen alot of you posting about ODT.
How do i know what i set them to?
And what do i gain from it?
I don't even know what to start with.

My settings:
4000mhz cl 17, asus z490 gaming e.


----------



## Imprezzion

I give up... spend all morning trying out 4400C16-17-17-36-340-2T and it passed 1h12m of TM5 Extreme before it gave 1 single error and never again till the end of the test... 
DIMM's at 44.5/43.8c so could it be temperature related?

Was running 1.40v SA, 1.30v IO, 1.55v DRAM, 80-60-60 ODT, DLL Auto, training enabled..


----------



## jeiselramos

This is my daily oc cpu-ram, can I improve something?


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I give up... spend all morning trying out 4400C16-17-17-36-340-2T and it passed 1h12m of TM5 Extreme before it gave 1 single error and never again till the end of the test...
> DIMM's at 44.5/43.8c so could it be temperature related?
> 
> Was running 1.40v SA, 1.30v IO, 1.55v DRAM, 80-60-60 ODT, DLL Auto, training enabled..


we have almost the same problem. I testing 4400 c16-17-17-320-2t, 1.40v SA, 1.30v IO, 1.55v DRAM, 80-40-40 ODT, DLL Auto, training enabled. I setted on auto tcke and trrd_s and trrd_l because it gave me problems on the boot with lower values. I passed extreme anta 1st cycle (the 1st time), but gave me an error on 2nd cycle on test 2 (but just one tim), and started popping up errors on 3rd cycle. I start to think it is temperature related, because they have no temp sensor (i putted a fan on them). I really don't know what to do.


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> we have almost the same problem. I testing 4400 c16-17-17-320-2t, 1.40v SA, 1.30v IO, 1.55v DRAM, 80-40-40 ODT, DLL Auto, training enabled. I setted on auto tcke and trrd_s and trrd_l because it gave me problems on the boot with lower values. I passed extreme anta 1st cycle (the 1st time), but gave me an error on 2nd cycle on test 2 (but just one tim), and started popping up errors on 3rd cycle. I start to think it is temperature related, because they have no temp sensor (i putted a fan on them). I really don't know what to do.


I ran 80-40-40 on 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T @ 1,35v SA 1.25v IO 1.50v DRAM which is my daily profile and absolutely stable but I just cannot seem to be able to squeeze that extra 1 CL out of them no matter what I try lol.

Maybe I'll raise DRAM to like, 1.58-1.60v. If they error faster it would indicate temperatures. Or I'll try some other ODT's like 120-60-60 or 120-48-40 or whatever it wants. Auto ODT is 240-80-0 for some reason and is horribly unstable..


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I ran 80-40-40 on 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T @ 1,35v SA 1.25v IO 1.50v DRAM which is my daily profile and absolutely stable but I just cannot seem to be able to squeeze that extra 1 CL out of them no matter what I try lol.
> 
> Maybe I'll raise DRAM to like, 1.58-1.60v. If they error faster it would indicate temperatures. Or I'll try some other ODT's like 120-60-60 or 120-48-40 or whatever it wants. Auto ODT is 240-80-0 for some reason and is horribly unstable..


maybe the problem is tm5...i never had a bsod using the other stress tests.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Salve1412

YaqY said:


> There is a tradeoff between TCWL and TRDWR's, if you go 1 higher in TCWL then your TRDWR's should go 1 lower for the same performance but lower TCWL may improve write performance. Example, TCL 16 + TRDWRS 10 + TCWL 16, is the same burst gap as TCL 16 + TRDWRS 12 + TCWL 14.


Exactly, but in my case e.g. 16+16+10 gives better overall results in GSAT, Karhu, Geekbench than 16+14+12 with minimal latency penalty.



Imprezzion said:


> I give up... spend all morning trying out 4400C16-17-17-36-340-2T and it passed 1h12m of TM5 Extreme before it gave 1 single error and never again till the end of the test...
> DIMM's at 44.5/43.8c so could it be temperature related?
> 
> Was running 1.40v SA, 1.30v IO, 1.55v DRAM, 80-60-60 ODT, DLL Auto, training enabled..


I guess it could be...have you tried bumping up Vcore a bit? Sometimes it helps.



jeiselramos said:


> This is my daily oc cpu-ram, can I improve something?
> View attachment 2489990


Did you test this settings? I ask because RTLs and IOls are really disaligned between the two channels (with channel B ones being much higher) and this should cause instability and performance loss. Did you leave them on Auto? If you enable Round Trip Latency in Memory Training Algorithms can you POST and if so with which values? Ideally RTLs should be no more than two apart and IOLs no more than one, I think.


----------



## nikolaus85

Salve1412 said:


> Exactly, but in my case e.g. 16+16+10 gives better overall results in GSAT, Karhu, Geekbench than 16+14+12 with minimal latency penalty.
> 
> 
> I guess it could be...have you tried bumping up Vcore a bit? Sometimes it helps.
> 
> 
> Did you test this settings? I ask because RTLs and IOls are really disaligned between the two channels (with channel B ones being much higher) and this should cause instability and performance loss. Did you leave them on Auto? If you enable Round Trip Latency in Memory Training Algorithms can you POST and if so with which values? Ideally RTLs should be no more than two apart and IOLs no more than one, I think.


do you mean cpu voltage or ram voltage? The cpu is 1.280v llc4 and the ram 1.55v.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

Salve1412 said:


> Exactly, but in my case e.g. 16+16+10 gives better overall results in GSAT, Karhu, Geekbench than 16+14+12 with minimal latency penalty.
> 
> 
> I guess it could be...have you tried bumping up Vcore a bit? Sometimes it helps.
> 
> 
> Did you test this settings? I ask because RTLs and IOls are really disaligned between the two channels (with channel B ones being much higher) and this should cause instability and performance loss. Did you leave them on Auto? If you enable Round Trip Latency in Memory Training Algorithms can you POST and if so with which values? Ideally RTLs should be no more than two apart and IOLs no more than one, I think.


Yes i do 1000% in memtest
Now i change tcwl to 16.
Yes i had enable round trip Latency and now i Have 8-7-7-7 and 37ns


----------



## Salve1412

nikolaus85 said:


> do you mean cpu voltage or ram voltage? The cpu is 1.280v llc4 and the ram 1.55v.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


CPU Voltage, sometimes rising it a bit helps me when I have single errors during RAM tests.


----------



## Salve1412

jeiselramos said:


> Yes i do 1000% in memtest
> Now i change tcwl to 16.
> Yes i had enable round trip Latency and now i Have 8-7-7-7 and 37ns
> View attachment 2489995


Nice, you can fix those RTLs-IOLs values in BIOS and test them. Also, if you loose tCWL you can lower tRDWRs (to 11 or even 10) and see if it POSTs.
PPD=0 TxP=4 in BIOS?


----------



## jeiselramos

Salve1412 said:


> Nice, you can fix those RTLs-IOLs values in BIOS and test them. Also, if you loose tCWL you can lower tRDWRs (to 11 or even 10) and see if it POSTs.
> PPD=0 TxP=4 in BIOS?


yes i set them in bios, now i will try to 10-11 trdwr.
how i can fix rtl-iol?

I POST with 10 but my iol bump up to 14-9-7-7


----------



## Imprezzion

Salve1412 said:


> CPU Voltage, sometimes rising it a bit helps me when I have single errors during RAM tests.


I'd rather not and just keep C17 then because I really have no room in CPU voltages anymore. I'm at 1.423v already @ 5.3 all core AVX stable which is kinda as high as I wanna go and as high as I can go and stay under 95c in stresstests (with AVX). Game temps are hitting low 70's already at 22c ambient (with low fanspeeds) so..

I am however getting a set of 12 much much better radiator fans later today so maybe those will free up some room. Went from airflow and no static pressure Cooler Master MF120 and MF140's to Alpenfohn Wing Boost 3's which have way way more static pressure and are substantially more quiet as well.


----------



## esa1970

Thanks both munternet and salve1412.I try twr16,tcwl16 and all trdwr10,but my copy drop 63500mb/s.I have F-Secure virus scanner and firewall.Maybe that effekt.
Maybe i try reinstall windows and without F-Secure.
I clean windows and this is result:


----------



## Salve1412

jeiselramos said:


> yes i set them in bios, now i will try to 10-11 trdwr.
> how i can fix rtl-iol?
> 
> I POST with 10 but my iol bump up to 14-9-7-7


They are in DRAM Timing Control/RTL IOL Control. You can see the Auto values and replace them with fixed ones. See if you can boot with the values that gave you 37 ns.


----------



## nikolaus85

I stopped using tm5, just hci memtest over 400% coverage and i am 100% stable. I think i will stay with those timings, since im bored to test and bench over and over lol.


----------



## menko2

I have no idea about RTL, IO-L, TCKE and other values. 

I'm staying at 4300mhz because my B-die kit is a bit old and doesn't like 4400mhz.

The ram-kit is g.skill 3600mhz [email protected]

I'm running the ram at 1.5v, SA 1.40v, IO 1.30.

Any help with some values that can be improved?


----------



## Salve1412

menko2 said:


> I have no idea about RTL, IO-L, TCKE and other values.
> 
> I'm staying at 4300mhz because my B-die kit is a bit old and doesn't like 4400mhz.
> 
> The ram-kit is g.skill 3600mhz [email protected]
> 
> I'm running the ram at 1.5v, SA 1.40v, IO 1.30.
> 
> Any help with some values that can be improved?
> 
> View attachment 2490028


Never run straight 16s as primaries, but I'd certainly try to set tRDWRs to the lowest bootable value (12 or lower hopefully). Also, if you change RTLs and IOLs to 62-62-7-7 (or more loosely 63-63-8-8) does it POST?


----------



## jeiselramos

Salve1412 said:


> They are in DRAM Timing Control/RTL IOL Control. You can see the Auto values and replace them with fixed ones. See if you can boot with the values that gave you 37 ns.


No i can't post even if i set the same rtl-iol. ***


----------



## Salve1412

jeiselramos said:


> No i can't post even if i set the same rtl-iol. ***


Both with tRDWRs at 10 and 11?


----------



## jeiselramos

Salve1412 said:


> Both with tRDWRs at 10 and 11?


with trdwr 11 i have 8-7-7-7
with 10 14-9-7-7 
lol


----------



## Imprezzion

K so, my instability testing 4400C16 was 100% temperature related. I turned off the PWM to my RAM fan and let it get to 49-50c and it was a massive error fest lol. 28 errors in like 15 minutes.
So, I tested the same on 4400C17 which is my daily profile which has done overnight HCI and a 3 hour TM5 Extreme run without errors with the fan, again as soon as it got above 48c the errors started. 

I mean, not a big deal, now I know where the problem is, only thing is, I already know this won't be stable in a 38c summer.. I have to find a OC that will actually hold up with some heat.. Even with A/C I can only keep ambients at like 26-28c in here during the hot summer.. That is enough to let the RAM get too hot and fail with the current OC..


----------



## menko2

Salve1412 said:


> Never run straight 16s as primaries, but I'd certainly try to set tRDWRs to the lowest bootable value (12 or lower hopefully). Also, if you change RTLs and IOLs to 62-62-7-7 (or more loosely 63-63-8-8) does it POST?


I have been trying to get better results with a few changes but what is stable is this at this point.

You can notice that the Latency changed a little but the L3 cache is worse than before. I also noticed while tweaking that when i started with the RTLs and IOs that the latency went up to 39.5ns. It went down again with the other tweaks i did.

Dram 1.50v, IO 1.30v, SA 1.40v.

I'm trying to improve as best as possible for gaming so latency could get better for it I think.

Any tips?


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> K so, my instability testing 4400C16 was 100% temperature related. I turned off the PWM to my RAM fan and let it get to 49-50c and it was a massive error fest lol. 28 errors in like 15 minutes.
> So, I tested the same on 4400C17 which is my daily profile which has done overnight HCI and a 3 hour TM5 Extreme run without errors with the fan, again as soon as it got above 48c the errors started.
> 
> I mean, not a big deal, now I know where the problem is, only thing is, I already know this won't be stable in a 38c summer.. I have to find a OC that will actually hold up with some heat.. Even with A/C I can only keep ambients at like 26-28c in here during the hot summer.. That is enough to let the RAM get too hot and fail with the current OC..


very nice. What your voltages? Can you post aida and asrock timing configuration? Thank you so much.


----------



## Salve1412

menko2 said:


> I have been trying to get better results with a few changes but what is stable is this at this point.
> 
> You can notice that the Latency changed a little but the L3 cache is worse than before. I also noticed while tweaking that when i started with the RTLs and IOs that the latency went up to 39.5ns. It went down again with the other tweaks i did.
> 
> Dram 1.50v, IO 1.30v, SA 1.40v.
> 
> I'm trying to improve as best as possible for gaming so latency could get better for it I think.
> 
> Any tips?
> 
> View attachment 2490126
> 
> View attachment 2490127


Are TxP and PPD set to 4 and 0 respectively in BIOS? The lower Cache/Core values in second screenshot are just an AIda reading error, right?


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> very nice. What your voltages? Can you post aida and asrock timing configuration? Thank you so much.


1.35v SA 1.25v IO 1.50v RAM at 4400C17.
1.40v SA 1.30v IO 1.57v DRAM at 4400C16 or 4533C18.

1.30v SA 1.20v IO 1.60v RAM at 4200C15. This does get very hot even with the fan (44-45c).


----------



## Hequaqua

Hi all, I've put a set of ram up for sale on here. 

Here is the listing if anyone is interested:









[SOLD]Crucial Ballistix MAX RGB 4000 MHz $110 Shipped(US...


I went to some Royal Z so no longer need. Kit is selling for over $200.00....Asking $165 Shipped, No Fees(PayPal Only) Price Dropped to $150 $140 $120 $110.00 Shipped/No Fees PayPal/Zelle A few pics(this ram hasn't really been ran much). It is Micron. I forgot to get the info from Thaiphoon...




www.overclock.net


----------



## menko2

Salve1412 said:


> Are TxP and PPD set to 4 and 0 respectively in BIOS? The lower Cache/Core values in second screenshot are just an AIda reading error, right?


I set TxP to 4 and PPD to 0. It did lowered the latency to 36.9 ns. Getting good.

The L3 Cache values are still worse than before. Dont know why.

Which values in the Bios affect L3 Cache the most?


----------



## Gen.

esa1970 said:


> My latest setup.Could someone tell me why my latency is so high?Ppd=0/Txp=4
> 
> View attachment 2489907
> 
> View attachment 2489908


Hi! please make the settings for me in the form of a txt file, I will be grateful! Thank you!
I received a F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA XMP 4000 16-16-16-36-52 1.400V. It seems like they can 4200 15-15. They keep the temperature well without blowing.


----------



## nikolaus85

Finally i did pass tm5 anta's extreme preset. I had to rise timings a bit (17-17-17), then just setted trfc, trefi, txp and iols. The more timings i change, the more unstable the system is according to tm5. I think i will stick with this setup, since the performance are very good and voltages not so high. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks to you all i finally did my job.


----------



## esa1970

Hi Gen.
Here is my bios set up.My timings you see those pictures.I modify those allredy.I can`t uppload my txt file.Hopefully you make sense.


----------



## Cpfan1

Imprezzion said:


> Yup, that is pretty important on MSI lol.
> 
> Got a question. What is holding me back in the following scenario with a 10900KF, MSI Z490 Ace, 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die.
> 
> I am now running 100% stable in any possible stresstest at: 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T with full manual secondaries and tertiaries and RTL IO at 1.40v SA 1.30v IO 1.50v DRAM. ODT 80-40-40 both channels, DLL 0, PPD off.
> 
> View attachment 2489876
> 
> 
> Now, I wanted to see if I could push the frequency a bit but any frequency over 4400 no matter the timings will error out very quickly in TM5. Temps shouldn't be an issue, it runs 4400C17 around 39-42c (with a fan) at 1.50v and I ran 1.60v at 4200C15 as well which is about 45-48c (getting up there) but it was stable at least.
> 
> I tried 4533 17-19-19-39-370-2T for example but no matter what I do with the voltages, RTL, ODT or subtimings it just doesn't seem to wanna run it at all. I did once get it close to stable but that was a super high primary timings and super loose secondaries (4533 18-20-20-40-450-2T) and a LOT of voltage (1.45v SA 1.40v IO 1.63v DRAM) which makes no sense scaling wise as it'll do 4400C17 at such relatively low voltages.
> 
> Is 4400 just the max the board topology or the CPU IMC will handle or am I overlooking something..
> 
> It's not the DIMM's, they can do much more. I tested them on a Crosshair VIII Hero with a 5800X in non sync mode with the Infinity Fabric and they did 4600 18-18-18-38-360-2T just fine at 1.52v so the DIMM's themselved _should_ go higher then 4400C17 on Intel.


Try disabling round trip latency and do a couple memtests, and if it runs fine set rtrl/iols manually.

Memory scrambler enabled. You can also set TFAW on auto? i didnt noticed low tfaw doing anything useful. Tcke should be 4-5 since it doesnt make any difference except potential instability?

Also try TWL 16 instead of 12 if your trtp is 8. Maximus mode 1, set trefi and trfc on auto until you stable on these tweaks that i mentioned, and only then adjust these two timings?


----------



## Cpfan1

People i need your help on setting rtl/iols since i dont know how to 😔 

Round trip lantecy training enabled gives me errors


----------



## menko2

What are the best g.skill 2x16GB binned Samsung b-dies?

I looked at the 

4000mhz [email protected]
4266mhz [email protected]
There is one cheaper than this which is similar to the first:
- 4000mz [email protected]

I never look into the ripjaws line because of the 8layers pcb vs 10layers of the royal, trident z, neo,...

Any other recommendations?


----------



## bscool

I have both 4266c17 and 4000c16-16-16. 4000 is slightly better. 4400c17 should be out soon also. I see some new gskill kits out on newegg. I don't think there is a difference from RJ to Royal. Some of the fastest clocking kits and tightest timings are RJ. All lotto in my opinion.


----------



## Gen.

Here are some sketches of my new modules that I ordered for myself as soon as they came out.


----------



## Gen.

@esa1970 Thank you friend. I am grateful to you. Check it out.
@nikolaus85 , First, try these settings, please.


Spoiler



MSI Z490:

OC:

OC Mode=Expert
Extreme Memory Profile(XMP)=Disabled
Dram Frequency=4400MHz
Memory Fast Boot=Disabled
CPU IO Voltage=1.280V
CPU SA Voltage=1.340V
DRAM Voltage=1.500V or lower/higher(above)

Advanced DRAM Configuration (OC):

1) DRAM Training Configuration:
Late Command Training=Disabled
Round Trip Latency=Enabled
Turn Arround Timing Training=Disabled
Rank Marging Tool=Enabled
Memory Test=Disabled

2) Main Timing Configuration:
Command Rate=2N
tCL=17
tRCD=17
tRP=17
tRAS=38
tRFC=360

3) Sub Timings Configuration:
tREFI=65024
tWR=16
tWR_MR=16
tWTR=4
tWTR_L=8
tRRD=4
tRRD_L=6
tRTP=8
tRTP_MR=8
tFAW=16
tCWL=16
tCWL_MR=16
tCKE=8
tCCD=4
tCCD_L=7
tCCD_L_MR=7

4) Turn Around Timing Configuration:
Turn Around Timing Setting Mode=Dynamic Mode
tRDRD_sg=7
tRDRD_dg=4
tRDRD_dr=6
tRDRD_dd=1
tWRWR_sg=7
tWRWR_dg=4
tWRWR_dr=7
tWRWR_dd=1
tRDWR_sg=14 (12min)
tRDWR_dg=14 (12min)
tRDWR_dr=14 (12min)
tRDWR_dd=1
tWRRD_sg=30
tWRRD_dg=26
tWRRD_dr=6
tWRRD_dd=1

5) Advanced Timing Configuration:
tWPRE=1
tRPRE=1
tWRPRE=36
tXP=4
tXPDLL=14
tPRPDEN=2
tRDPDEN=22
tWRPDEN=36
tREFIx9=127
tMOD=12

6) Latency Timing Configuration tRTL/tIOL:
Latency Timing Setting Mode=Dynamic Mode
IO Compensation (CHA)=21
IO Compensation (CHB)=21
RTL Init Value (CHA)=69
RTL Init Value (CHB)=69
IOL Init Value (CHA)=4
IOL Init Value (CHB)=4

(RTL+IOL auto should be 64-64-66-66-7-7-7-7 (best)).

7) Misc Item:
DRAM Voltage Boost=Disabled
Rank Interleave=Enabled

8) On-Die Termination Configuration:
ODT Wr (CHA0/D0)=0
ODT Nom (CHA0/D0)=0
ODT Park (CHA0/D0)=0
ODT Wr (CHA0/D1)=80
ODT Nom (CHA1/D1)=0
ODT Park (CHA1/D1)=48
ODT Wr (CHA1/D0)=0
ODT Nom (CHB0/D0)=0
ODT Park (CHB0/D0)=0
ODT Wr (CHB0/D1)=80
ODT Nom (CHB1/D1)=0
ODT Park (CHB1/D1)=48

9) Power Down Control:
Power Down Mode=Disabled


@Cpfan1 your RDWR_sg/dg may be 10 or 11 or 12. All _dd timings=0. tFAW strictly 16 (tRRD_S*4). tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg may be 6?
Your RTL block:


Spoiler



DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]

or

DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [64]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [64]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [8]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [8]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]


----------



## menko2

bscool said:


> I have both 4266c17 and 4000c16-16-16. 4000 is slightly better. 4400c17 should be out soon also. I see some new gskill kits out on newegg. I don't think there is a difference from RJ to Royal. Some of the fastest clocking kits and tightest timings are RJ. All lotto in my opinion.


Should the PCB layers (8 vs 10) should be in count for overclocking them? Also for heat dissipation.


----------



## bscool

menko2 said:


> Should the PCB layers (8 vs 10) should be in count for overclocking them? Also for heat dissipation.


I have 10 layer RJ.

Are you saying 10 layer are only on Royal?

I think most of the price difference for Royal is the heat spreader and the "name". I have kits of Royal that are not as good as RJ or cheaper Team kits. I have a Gskill Royal 4800c18 kit as an example is Royal trash for the price.


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> @esa1970 Thank you friend. I am grateful to you. Check it out.
> @nikolaus85 , First, try these settings, please.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> MSI Z490:
> 
> OC:
> 
> OC Mode=Expert
> Extreme Memory Profile(XMP)=Disabled
> Dram Frequency=4400MHz
> Memory Fast Boot=Disabled
> CPU IO Voltage=1.280V
> CPU SA Voltage=1.340V
> DRAM Voltage=1.500V or lower/higher(above)
> 
> Advanced DRAM Configuration (OC):
> 
> 1) DRAM Training Configuration:
> Late Command Training=Disabled
> Round Trip Latency=Enabled
> Turn Arround Timing Training=Disabled
> Rank Marging Tool=Enabled
> Memory Test=Disabled
> 
> 2) Main Timing Configuration:
> Command Rate=2N
> tCL=17
> tRCD=17
> tRP=17
> tRAS=38
> tRFC=360
> 
> 3) Sub Timings Configuration:
> tREFI=65024
> tWR=16
> tWR_MR=16
> tWTR=4
> tWTR_L=8
> tRRD=4
> tRRD_L=6
> tRTP=8
> tRTP_MR=8
> tFAW=16
> tCWL=16
> tCWL_MR=16
> tCKE=8
> tCCD=4
> tCCD_L=7
> tCCD_L_MR=7
> 
> 4) Turn Around Timing Configuration:
> Turn Around Timing Setting Mode=Dynamic Mode
> tRDRD_sg=7
> tRDRD_dg=4
> tRDRD_dr=6
> tRDRD_dd=1
> tWRWR_sg=7
> tWRWR_dg=4
> tWRWR_dr=7
> tWRWR_dd=1
> tRDWR_sg=14 (12min)
> tRDWR_dg=14 (12min)
> tRDWR_dr=14 (12min)
> tRDWR_dd=1
> tWRRD_sg=30
> tWRRD_dg=26
> tWRRD_dr=6
> tWRRD_dd=1
> 
> 5) Advanced Timing Configuration:
> tWPRE=1
> tRPRE=1
> tWRPRE=36
> tXP=4
> tXPDLL=14
> tPRPDEN=2
> tRDPDEN=22
> tWRPDEN=36
> tREFIx9=127
> tMOD=12
> 
> 6) Latency Timing Configuration tRTL/tIOL:
> Latency Timing Setting Mode=Dynamic Mode
> IO Compensation (CHA)=21
> IO Compensation (CHB)=21
> RTL Init Value (CHA)=69
> RTL Init Value (CHB)=69
> IOL Init Value (CHA)=4
> IOL Init Value (CHB)=4
> 
> (RTL+IOL auto should be 64-64-66-66-7-7-7-7 (best)).
> 
> 7) Misc Item:
> DRAM Voltage Boost=Disabled
> Rank Interleave=Enabled
> 
> 8) On-Die Termination Configuration:
> ODT Wr (CHA0/D0)=0
> ODT Nom (CHA0/D0)=0
> ODT Park (CHA0/D0)=0
> ODT Wr (CHA0/D1)=80
> ODT Nom (CHA1/D1)=0
> ODT Park (CHA1/D1)=48
> ODT Wr (CHA1/D0)=0
> ODT Nom (CHB0/D0)=0
> ODT Park (CHB0/D0)=0
> ODT Wr (CHB0/D1)=80
> ODT Nom (CHB1/D1)=0
> ODT Park (CHB1/D1)=48
> 
> 9) Power Down Control:
> Power Down Mode=Disabled
> 
> 
> @Cpfan1 your RDWR_sg/dg may be 10 or 11 or 12. All _dd timings=0. tFAW strictly 16 (tRRD_S*4). tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg may be 6?
> Your RTL block:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [63]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> 
> or
> 
> DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [64]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [64]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]


Thank for your advices. I improved the bandwidth, while the latency is the same.

New cacheme:










Old cachemem:










Do you think worth it keep new settings? Since i still have an old bios version, there is no ppd settings (but i always set txp=4). Should i update the bios to see more improvements? Thank you.

Edit: i tried, but memtest 5 anta's extreme always pop up errors. I tried raising a bit sa, io, vdram and vcore, but nothing. Maybe it a temp related issues that make ram unstable with those tighter timings.


----------



## menko2

bscool said:


> I have 10 layer RJ.
> 
> Are you saying 10 layer are only on Royal?
> 
> I think most of the price difference for Royal is the heat spreader and the "name". I have kits of Royal that are not as good as RJ or cheaper Team kits. I have a Gskill Royal 4800c18 kit as an example is Royal trash for the price.


Ok I didn't know they were Ripjaws 10 layers. 

I got it from G.Skill website. They mention 10 layers always in trindentz, royal, neo but never in Ripjaw. Good to know.

Which kit so you have? Heatpreader is not good in Ripjaws?


----------



## bscool

menko2 said:


> Ok I didn't know they were Ripjaws 10 layers.
> 
> I got it from G.Skill website. They mention 10 layers always in trindentz, royal, neo but never in Ripjaw. Good to know.
> 
> Which kit so you have? Heatpreader is not good in Ripjaws?


I have had 24+ different kits of b die dual and SR from 3200c14 on up. Too many to list. The heat spreader on them really doesn't matter. You need good air flow or to water cool them if you really want to push them.

Look at one of the highest clocks and tightest timings is @PhoenixMDA and he runs 3200c14 RJ @4666c17+. He has them on water right now, not sure what he did with them on air. The CPU IMC play a big role too. To get top kits guys buy 6-12+ kits and bin them and keep the best.

No one here can tell you what is the "best" kit. Your chances are better buying a higher bin kit but no guarantee. Like I mentioned the 4800c18 Royal kit. I have 4000c15 RJ that can clock higher and tighter than the 4800 Royals. Also 4500c18 Team kit that will go higher and tighter than the 4800 Royals and the Team kit cost half the price.


----------



## Salve1412

bscool said:


> I have had 24+ different kits of b die dual and SR from 3200c14 on up. Too many to list. The heat spreader on them really doesn't matter. You need good air flow or to water cool them if you really want to push them.
> 
> Look at one of the highest clocks and tightest timings is @PhoenixMDA and he runs 3200c14 RJ @4666c17+. He has them on water right now, not sure what he did with them on air. The CPU IMC play a big role too. To get top kits guys buy 6-12+ kits and bin them and keep the best.
> 
> No one here can tell you what is the "best" kit. Your chances are better buying a higher bin kit but no guarantee. Like I mentioned the 4800c18 Royal kit. I have 4000c15 RJ that can clock higher and tighter than the 4800 Royals. Also 4500c18 Team kit that will go higher and tighter than the 4800 Royals and the Team kit cost half the price.


I second this. I bought a F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA kit (16-16-36 1.4V) in the hope of getting better overclocking results than my current F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB one (17-18-18-38 1.4V) but against my expectations it needed much more RAM voltage with the same settings, and I couldn't even stabilize it in a short period of time (I ended up reselling it). Don't know if I've had more good luck the first time than bad luck the second, but in general with these higher bin kits your chances should be favourable (for example mine does 4533 16-17-17-36 at 1.53V, and I think I could push it more, even on a 4-DIMM board, if I weren't limited by air cooling):


----------



## Ivan B.

Ahoj, znovu jsem naladil  Z370 + i7 8700k @ 4,6Ghz


----------



## KedarWolf

Salve1412 said:


> I second this. I bought a F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA kit (16-16-36 1.4V) in the hope of getting better overclocking results than my current F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB one (17-18-18-38 1.4V) but against my expectations it needed much more RAM voltage with the same settings, and I couldn't even stabilize it in a short period of time (I ended up reselling it). Don't know if I've had more good luck the first time than bad luck the second, but in general with these higher bin kits your chances should be favourable (for example mine does 4533 16-17-17-36 at 1.53V, and I think I could push it more, even on a 4-DIMM board, if I weren't limited by air cooling):
> View attachment 2490381


Did you try this kit? New PCB from April 15th.









G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





Rated for AMD 5000 series and Intel.

Edit: Oh wait, the Royal PCB is from April 15th as well. 

Second Edit: Am buying the CL16 4000 Neo tomorrow for my B550 Unify-X , but if it performs badly can get a full refund from Newegg.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@bscool
At Air was in really stable 4600CL17-17 possible, 1,54V Vdimm, io/sa 1,35V.
4666 under air not tested.
It's not easy to find a really good Kit, i think for stability it's very important that both dimm's not only good, they must be like equal and must do high frequency at hard subs.

I can boot into windows 1,36V 4000CL16-16, 1,37V is Memtest stable, [email protected],55V but not memtest stable.


----------



## bscool

@KedarWolf I have the new Neo 4000c16 kit and it is slightly better than my 4266c17 kit. It will do [email protected] or [email protected] 4533c17-18-18 That was just short comparison/benches on z490 and z590 with 10700k and 11900k.

I think they will be great in your AMD system if you are going for lower clocks like 3600-3800 and tight timings.


----------



## KedarWolf

bscool said:


> @KedarWolf I have the new Neo 4000c16 kit and it is slightly better than my 4266c17 kit. It will do [email protected] or [email protected] 4533c17-18-18 That was just short comparison/benches on z490 and z590 with 10700k and 11900k.
> 
> I think they will be great in your AMD system if you are going for lower clocks like 3600-3800 and tight timings.


Oh thanks, I have the 16-16-16-36 Neo 3600 right now, ordering the Cl16 4000 Neo tomorrow, so it remains to be seen if it's actually better.

It should be a higher binned kit though, so here's hoping.


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> ordering the Cl16 4000 Neo tomorrow


wait, 16-16-16? got a link? 

all I can find is a 4000 16-19-19 kit.


----------



## bscool

The Pook said:


> wait, 16-16-16? got a link?
> 
> all I can find is a 4000 16-19-19 kit.


32GB (2 x 16GB),16,DDR4 4000 Desktop Memory | Newegg.com The higher priced ones. Edit now I see some are the same price 16-19-19 or 16-16-16. Before the straight 16 where more than 16-19-19


----------



## SoldierRBT

32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.55v DRAM 1.33v IO/SA TM5 Extreme Max temp: 37C


----------



## bscool

@menko2 See above post  , Ripjaws

The 4400c17 kits have been on Gskill site for a week or two. I would think they should be out soon. F4-4400C17D-32GVK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> @menko2 See above post  , Ripjaws
> 
> The 4400c17 kits have been on Gskill site for a week or two. I would think they should be out soon. F4-4400C17D-32GVK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


This kit has already been there for almost one year but never been on the market. 








G.SKILL Releases DDR4-4400 CL17 Memory Kits with High-Capacity 16GB Modules-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.







www.gskill.com


----------



## Imprezzion

As I'm guaranteed to run into temp issues in the summer on 4400C17 @ 1.50v even with a fan I am going to try and find a clock + timing setup the dimms can do at like 1.40v ish. Probably going to be something like 4000 to 4200C16 I'm guessing. They get unstable above 47c and at 20c ambient I see around 38-39c now but if it's summer and 30+c ambients they will go past that 47c mark and I don't wanna deal with random crashes lol. I mean, I have air-conditioning, but I don't wanna run that power waste every day lol. Especially when I'm not at home working all day anyway.

EDIT: nevermind. It needed 1.45v to even POST 4200C16 let alone be stable lol. This isn't going to work. Man, I'd have to drop all the way to 4000C16 or raise the timings on 4400 way up to like C18 or C19..

Yeah no. These dimms do not wanna run anything useful at all at 1.40v.. they really really love their voltage above 1.48v lol..


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This kit has already been there for almost one year but never been on the market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Releases DDR4-4400 CL17 Memory Kits with High-Capacity 16GB Modules-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


So I guess the* g.skill 2x16GB* 4000mhz [email protected] are the best option then (lottery included).

Will they be much better binned than the 2x16GB 4000mhz [email protected]?

(I can find the last ones easier and cheaper here in Spain)


----------



## KedarWolf

menko2 said:


> So I guess the* g.skill 2x16GB* 4000mhz [email protected] are the best option then (lottery included).
> 
> Will they be much better binned than the 2x16GB 4000mhz [email protected]?
> 
> (I can find the last ones easier and cheaper here in Spain)


The 2x16GB 16-19-19-39 are b-die too, and someone said they overclocked better than the 16-16-16-36, but your results may vary.









*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


My latest setup.Could someone tell me why my latency is so high?Ppd=0/Txp=4 Hi! please make the settings for me in the form of a txt file, I will be grateful! Thank you! I received a F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA XMP 4000 16-16-16-36-52 1.400V. It seems like they can 4200 15-15. They keep the...




www.overclock.net


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> So I guess the* g.skill 2x16GB* 4000mhz [email protected] are the best option then (lottery included).
> 
> Will they be much better binned than the 2x16GB 4000mhz [email protected]?
> 
> (I can find the last ones easier and cheaper here in Spain)


My 4000 16-16 royal kit works pretty well, better than my 4000 17-18 1.4V kit. Currently running 3866 15-15 1.45V on 11th gen i9.









3866 14-14 needs around 1.55V volt, which is too hot for daily without a fan.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

KedarWolf said:


> The 2x16GB 16-19-19-39 are b-die too, and someone said they overclocked better than the 16-16-16-36, but your results may vary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> My latest setup.Could someone tell me why my latency is so high?Ppd=0/Txp=4 Hi! please make the settings for me in the form of a txt file, I will be grateful! Thank you! I received a F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA XMP 4000 16-16-16-36-52 1.400V. It seems like they can 4200 15-15. They keep the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


I can confirm they are all b-die. Comparing the tRCD, there is no way 4000 16-19 1.4V could be better than the 4000 16-16 1.4V. But, it's still a silicon lottery thing.


----------



## bscool

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This kit has already been there for almost one year but never been on the market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Releases DDR4-4400 CL17 Memory Kits with High-Capacity 16GB Modules-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


I know it has been in their news. It was not listed in their ram kits when search for available kits. Big difference. Not? The kits I see that come up in the available kits are soon on new egg for sale.


Edit G.Skill 32GB G.Skill DDR4 4400MHz CL17 Memory Upgrade Kit  I ordered a kit so Ill see how it is. No tax and a 5% coupon should make the price close to or less than NewEgg. Wonder how long it will take to come...........


----------



## robalm

PhoenixMDA said:


> @bscool
> At Air was in really stable 4600CL17-17 possible, 1,54V Vdimm, io/sa 1,35V.
> 4666 under air not tested.
> It's not easy to find a really good Kit, i think for stability it's very important that both dimm's not only good, they must be like equal and must do high frequency at hard subs.
> 
> I can boot into windows 1,36V 4000CL16-16, 1,37V is Memtest stable, [email protected],55V but not memtest stable.


Can you pass anta777 4000cl16 1.37v?

I can also pass memtest with the same settings but anta777 fails.


----------



## Imprezzion

I can pass Anta @ 4200C17 1.40v. Had to loosen up on the tertiaries and RTL/IO quite a lot but yeah. It seems to work fine now. Test still running so it can still error lol. Screenshots later if you want. This should withstand the summer heat lol. After 30 min TM5 Extreme the dimms are only at 39.3c and 38.8c. That's a lot better then the 45.4c and 44.9c they do on 4400C17 1.50v which means 50+ in the summer which is nowhere near stable.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

robalm said:


> Can you pass anta777 4000cl16 1.37v?
> 
> I can also pass memtest with the same settings but anta777 fails.


Not tested, its only for fast check of quality bin, what is possible like [email protected],45V, [email protected],5V and so on.

The Kit who can do this, are good for testing high frequency, its possible or not stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

What would the optimal RTL / IO be at 4200 17-17-17-36-2T? I'm assuming 62/62/6/6 or 63/63/7/7? I'm now running 66/66/7/7 as that's where it trained on Fixed Auto and it seems stable at 1.40v but I wanna obviously maximize performance without raising voltage. Also. tRDWR is at 15 which is kinda high for tWR 12 tCWL 16 but I'm not sure how far I can push it at this low of a voltage. I'll try to do at least a 2 hour pass of TM5 Extreme on these loose timings to see if 4200C17 is stable as is so I can make a profile for it in the BIOS for the hot summers lol.

It's stable. Well over 2 hours no errors. Temps touched 40c but that's 5-6c lower then 1.50v was. 
Now all I gotta do is tweak the tertiary timings and the RTL/IO a bit if there's room. Then this would be a great "hot summer" profile.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

bscool said:


> 32GB (2 x 16GB),16,DDR4 4000 Desktop Memory | Newegg.com The higher priced ones. Edit now I see some are the same price 16-19-19 or 16-16-16. Before the straight 16 where more than 16-19-19


One friend of HWL has tested the 2x16GB 4000CL16-16 Kit, but he wasn´t lucky, it was worse as his selected 3200CL14 Kit.
By CML the CPU is also the boarder, for 24/7 is [email protected],55V my max.(work´s memtest 43-45°), i can do nice screen´s like this one, but for really allstable at every time it´s nothing.^^


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> I know it has been in their news. It was not listed in their ram kits when search for available kits. Big difference. Not? The kits I see that come up in the available kits are soon on new egg for sale.
> 
> 
> Edit G.Skill 32GB G.Skill DDR4 4400MHz CL17 Memory Upgrade Kit  I ordered a kit so Ill see how it is. No tax and a 5% coupon should make the price close to or less than NewEgg. Wonder how long it will take to come...........


Should be a good bin if it can be purchased. Waiting for your results


----------



## Salve1412

SoldierRBT said:


> 32GB 4600 17-17-17-32 1.55v DRAM 1.33v IO/SA TM5 Extreme Max temp: 37C
> View attachment 2490400


Do you use GSAT for testing, by any chance? I'd be curious to know your Memory Copy speed score, just to see the performance difference between your settings and mine (4533 16-17-17-36).


----------



## SoldierRBT

Salve1412 said:


> Do you use GSAT for testing, by any chance? I'd be curious to know your Memory Copy speed score, just to see the performance difference between your settings and mine (4533 16-17-17-36).


Check latest activity on my profile, I posted 2H GSAT a few weeks ago. CL17 is good for temp stability as it needs lower vdimm to be stable.


----------



## SoldierRBT

32GB 4700 17-17-17-34 1.59v DRAM 1.34v IO 1.35v SA 1H GSAT Max temp: 36C. There's still room for improvement.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

It´s reboot stable over a bigger temp range?By me is that the problem, if i test between like 20-35° H2O it´s not real stable,
GSat Memtest is can do, for 24/7 it´s for trashcan^^

So higher the frequency is so lower is the temp range by me.I have give up 4700CL17-17 for 24/7^^.
CL17-18 is better possible but also not at all really stable and no real improvment.


----------



## SoldierRBT

@PhoenixMDA

I have the same issue of reboot. Temps over 36C it won't boot consistently with my settings. Watercooling the sticks should reduce the boot inconsistency at high temps. I've been trying to find the best ODT for temperature range. Also leaving CLK rising/falling on auto helps (they seem to change from temperature).


----------



## esa1970

Now i get tCWL 16 and tRDWR 10 to work.Thanks everyone who help me.My latency is too high again.But i beleve that it is result from my background program.My room temperature is 27c when i run these stable test.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> @PhoenixMDA
> 
> I have the same issue of reboot. Temps over 36C it won't boot consistently with my settings. Watercooling the sticks should reduce the boot inconsistency at high temps. I've been trying to find the best ODT for temperature range. Also leaving CLK rising/falling on auto helps (they seem to change from temperature).


The most impact have VDimm/Vref/ODT and also the DramCLK.Is the DramCLK to low is bad, i have fixed to 34.
I take my middle temp 24°H2O and test VDimm/Vref of boot Stability.I train up to Code 44 and do reset as long as Code 31/34/32/3F come.
At [email protected],555V or 1,57V Bios VRef 0.515/0.52 ca. 1-2 are bad of 10 boot´s in one pice.

But with 1,535V VDimm and 0.52 Vref over 20boot´s all fine and the next 10-15 boot´s i tested also, so 35 boot´s without one fail.
So i have changed to 1,535V.

P.s.
Up to 30° is perfekt and at 36-38 Dimm temp for the trashcan^^.
With my wakü no Problem, but at air is the border 4600CL17-17.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@SoldierRBT
But the generally Temp Stability after Load is much higher.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> The most impact have VDimm/Vref/ODT and also the DramCLK.Is the DramCLK to low is bad, i have fixed to 34.
> I take my middle temp 24°H2O and test VDimm/Vref of boot Stability.I train up to Code 44 and do reset as long as Code 31/34/32/3F come.
> At [email protected],555V or 1,57V Bios VRef 0.515/0.52 ca. 1-2 are bad of 10 boot´s in one pice.
> 
> But with 1,535V VDimm and 0.52 Vref over 20boot´s all fine and the next 10-15 boot´s i tested also, so 35 boot´s without one fail.
> So i have changed to 1,535V.
> 
> P.s.
> Up to 30° is perfekt and at 36-38 Dimm temp for the trashcan^^.
> With my wakü no Problem, but at air is the border 4600CL17-17.


Nice voltage and thanks for the tips. 4700 17-17-17 seems to like DRAM CLK 31 which boots several times. Tested 32 up to 44 and system wouldn't boot consistently. I was able to get this stable with 1.59v vdimm and 0.495v vref. 0.50-0.51v vref it would boot but showed errors. Do you set DRAM BCLK before or after setting slopes? Have you tested DLL for boot stability?

My sticks don't like tight RTL/IOLs. 4600 17-17-17 works fine with 65/65/65/65 8/8/8/8 but 4666 17-17-17 only boots consistently with 65/65/66/66 8/8/9/8 and 4700 17-17-17 works only with 65/65/66/66 8/8/8/8. After I get bored of 4700, I'll revisit 4600 17-17.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I think your IMC is better as my, i´m also not able to boot 2x16gb at 4800, arround 4770 is the limit and you need lower IO/SA in stable.
Perhap´s the reason why you can drive higher Voltage´s on Vdimm at CL17.

DramCLK i have set after the slope´s, it´s also only to be shure that he does´nt set it wrong.
And yes 1,54V VDimm is nice, but it´s not so that i want it so, it seen that the best Dimm Voltage´s of transmission arround 1,52-1,555V is.
The most people who can drive CL17 are arround 1,52-1,54V, i think it´s a big question of IMC and whether the dimm´s are able to do this at the voltage´s,
or it´s to low for the IC´s.
i would like to say test with 1,535V but perhap´s there you will need new slope´s, is the transmission 1A i don´t need high voltage´s for memtest .
If the dimm´s are not able to do the sub´s at this voltage i think it´s better to change the sub´s as to raise up the voltage.

The sweetspot of transmission in my case is 1,535V Bios, so i´m also able to set Vref to 0.52, that give´s me more stability.
If i´m going higher with the Vdimm it´s more worse as better, i have 8h tested only for boot stability in different temp range.I´m happy that it´s possible to get
4666CL17-17 so awesome stable but it was also much work to find this one gold sweetspot.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think your IMC is better as my, i´m also not able to boot 2x16gb at 4800, arround 4770 is the limit and you need lower IO/SA in stable.
> Perhap´s the reason why you can drive higher Voltage´s on Vdimm at CL17.
> 
> DramCLK i have set after the slope´s, it´s also only to be shure that he does´nt set it wrong.
> And yes 1,54V VDimm is nice, but it´s not so that i want it so, it seen that the best Dimm Voltage´s of transmission arround 1,52-1,555V is.
> The most people who can drive CL17 are arround 1,52-1,54V, i think it´s a big question of IMC and whether the dimm´s are able to do this at the voltage´s,
> or it´s to low for the IC´s.
> i would like to say test with 1,535V but perhap´s there you will need new slope´s, is the transmission 1A i don´t need high voltage´s for memtest .
> If the dimm´s are not able to do the sub´s at this voltage i think it´s better to change the sub´s as to raise up the voltage.
> 
> The sweetspot of transmission in my case is 1,535V Bios, so i´m also able to set Vref to 0.52, that give´s me more stability.
> If i´m going higher with the Vdimm it´s more worse as better, i have 8h tested only for boot stability in different temp range.I´m happy that it´s possible to get
> 4666CL17-17 so awesome stable but it was also much work to find this one gold sweetspot.


Your kit is better than mine. They can do 4600 17-17-17 1.54v 0.52v vref 1.29v IO/SA auto slopes 80/48/40 ODT. Lower vddimm shows errors. I should have my kit under water in the next couple of weeks. Got my 3090 KPE block just waiting for some fittings to install everything. I'll report back if I see improvements. I also changed tRDRD_sg/ tWRWR_sg to 6. It boots more consistent with 6 than 7 even though 7 has better write AIDA score but 6 improves copy score + boot stability.

4666 17-17-17 works with 0.51v vref. Been testing ODTs and 80/60/60 seems to be very good for booting stability. 4700 17-17-17 works only with 0.495v vref and 80/48/40 ODT.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I know my Kit is really good alone that it can do under water 4700Cl17-17 with hard subs with 1,54V under water is awesome.
But dont forget how much Vdimm you need is also a question how good the "transmission Windows" is.
Your Kit is also really good. 

tRDRD_sg at 7 don't works good, at 6 is better, i stay at 4666CL17-17 because good temp range and good performance.


----------



## Imprezzion

Man my GPU is throwing a lot of heat at my RAM sticks lol. TM5 without GPU load is about 39c but gaming with GPU load is 41c lol. Even at 1.400v. That might also mean that my random crashes at 4400 were temp related because that easily got 6-7c hotter.. weird..


----------



## acoustic

Currently trying to drop my VDIMM voltage down a tad. I've been running 1.55v for months now, and temps, I assume, have been fine. I'm testing 1.48v, and I have a weird thing right now where it's TM5 [email protected] stable but 5minutes of Total War: ROME Remastered and she hard locks. Bump voltage back to 1.55v, and stable again. I didn't realize ROME Remastered would be a good memory stability test lol


----------



## encrypted11

On my Dan A4 7.2L ITX with the latest V11 MSI BIOS (vs V10) plus the help of Slew Control & ODT Tuning versus Auto ODTs & Slew Contro on V10l:
i9-11900K (SP89) @stock---4533Mhz-C19-24-24-44-1T----1.59V---SA 1.17---MCIO 1.22V---Stressapptest----1 Hour
i9-11900K (SP89) @stock---4533Mhz-C19-24-24-44-1T----1.50V---SA 1.10---MCIO 1.22V---Stressapptest----1 Hour

No loss of performance, GSAT 1H Memory copy's within margin of error. This is on my 2nd best pair (which were not the best DJR DR's to begin with). I haven't applied my new tune on my best (not great either) DJR DR pair that does 4800 C19 GSAT 1H & 4533 C18 1H so far. Hope I'll get some time for revisiting this in a couple of weeks.


----------



## fray_bentos

Can anyone provide any information on the "safety" of PPD=0? I currently have PPD set to zero which gives substantial latency gains. If I understand correctly, this prevents RAM power down. So my question is, for a PC that is on 12+ hours per day (and often idle/low demand), is using PPD=0 a bad idea when using Samsung Bdie 1.45 Vdimm, 1.20 V SA, 1.20 IO @ 4200 MHz CL16? Could this contribute to degradation of RAM (or IMC?)? I'm struggling to find much information on this!


----------



## fray_bentos

Imprezzion said:


> Man my GPU is throwing a lot of heat at my RAM sticks lol. TM5 without GPU load is about 39c but gaming with GPU load is 41c lol. Even at 1.400v. That might also mean that my random crashes at 4400 were temp related because that easily got 6-7c hotter.. weird..


I had a similar problem with my 3080FE, even when undervolted to 0.831 V (~280 W). I taped a sheet of paper to the end of the GPU to duct hot air past my RAM and out of the back of the case. I don't care about appearances as my case is out of sight.


----------



## munternet

fray_bentos said:


> Can anyone provide any information on the "safety" of PPD=0? I currently have PPD set to zero which gives substantial latency gains. If I understand correctly, this prevents RAM power down. So my question is, for a PC that is on 12+ hours per day (and often idle/low demand), is using PPD=0 a bad idea when using Samsung Bdie. 1.45 Vdimm, 1.20 V SA, 1.20 IO @ 4200 MHz CL16. Could this contribute to degradation of RAM (or IMC?). I'm struggling to find much information on this!


I have been running these voltages with PPD=0 for many months now (4 or 5 maybe) with the PC running 24/7 with no ill effects so far


----------



## YaqY

Anyone here tested F4-4400C17D-32GVK? Ordered a set waiting on them to come.


----------



## Gen.

My friend and I received sets of F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA (XMP 4000 16-16-16-36-52 1.400V). Turned out to be 4400 16-16-16-36 1.53V for me and he has absolutely the same. All this with a memory fan (37-39 degrees). With good airflow around 31-33 degrees, that's 1.520V. Not tested without blowing, but it can be 1.54-1.56V. In general, the usual kit is not worth the overpayment. Now I am faced with the choice of a new memory. 4266 17-18 1.5V / 4000 17-18 1.4V (I already had one) / 3600 14-15 1.45V. What would you advise to take from your side?


----------



## fray_bentos

Gen. said:


> My friend and I received sets of F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA (XMP 4000 16-16-16-36-52 1.400V). Turned out to be 4400 16-16-16-36 1.53V for me and he has absolutely the same. All this with a memory fan (37-39 degrees). With good airflow around 31-33 degrees, that's 1.520V. Not tested without blowing, but it can be 1.54-1.56V. In general, the usual kit is not worth the overpayment. Now I am faced with the choice of a new memory. 4266 17-18 1.5V / 4000 17-18 1.4V (I already had one) / 3600 14-15 1.45V. What would you advise to take from your side?


If you are prepared to put up to 1.56 V across all of these sticks, won't you essentially end up with pretty much the same performance for any given voltage? If that's the case, then the answer is buy whatever is cheapest/available. It's splitting hairs at this end of the performance charts. For example, I am sure that my 3600 CL15 sticks could probably do all of those timings at those voltages. I know for sure that they can do 3900/4000 14-15-15 and 4200 16-16-16 at 1.45 V. I have settled on 1.45 V as a voltage where stable temps can be maintained (<43 C) without additional fan noise.


----------



## 2500k_2

Hello everybody. Has anyone tested Oloy 4000 CL14 kit? If you have results please share. thanks in advance.


----------



## Cpfan1

*F4-5066C20D-16GVK*


----------



## fray_bentos

Cpfan1 said:


> *F4-5066C20D-16GVK*


Target audience: RKL users in Gear 2.


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan1 said:


> *F4-5066C20D-16GVK*


2x8GB kit in mid 2021


----------



## fray_bentos

Nizzen said:


> 2x8GB kit in mid 2021


I'm yet to find anything that needs or benefits from more than 16 GB other than running virtual machines...


----------



## robalm

can anyone explain why my RAM overclock becomes more unstable with more SA voltage?
For example, I can boot to windows and run aida64:
4266mhz cl17
1.38 dramvoltage
1.16 IO
1.17 SA
but if I raise SA to 1.2v I can not boot to windows


----------



## Imprezzion

Running BDO in afk background, 50 tabs of chrome and then trying to play warzone hehe. I'm happy I got the 32 kit when RAM pricing was at it's lowest. A 16GB kit costs almost as much as my 32GB kit which I bought for €190.


----------



## Ajdaho pl

Hello friends 
what i can improve in timmings ?

cpu [email protected]/1.235V
mobo z490 master
ram corsair venegance lpx [email protected] IO-1.3 SA-1.3 DRAM VOLTAGE 1,6v COOLING EKWB MONARCH + GRIZZLY PADS


----------



## fray_bentos

Imprezzion said:


> Running... 50 tabs of chrome...


_Shudder_ Oh, you are one of _those_ people!


----------



## mickyc357

Having a weird problem. I'm running my 10900k at 5.2ghz/4.8 GHz uncore. SA is at 1.33v and io at 1.28v.
Just in the process of tuning my gskill 4266 c17 32gb kit. I'm testing frequency at the moment and I got it up to 4533mhz on my aorus pro ax and hci memest finds no errors but it will crash in warzone within 20 mins.

Before installing this kit I was at 4400mhz with my patriot vipers at 1.3v SA and 1.28v io. My new kit will run 4400 with these settings fine too with no crashes.
Do I need more SA/IO voltage or could it be the ram needs more voltage?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

mickyc357 said:


> Having a weird problem. I'm running my 10900k at 5.2ghz/4.8 GHz uncore. SA is at 1.33v and io at 1.28v.
> Just in the process of tuning my gskill 4266 c17 32gb kit. I'm testing frequency at the moment and I got it up to 4533mhz on my aorus pro ax and hci memest finds no errors but it will crash in warzone within 20 mins.
> 
> Before installing this kit I was at 4400mhz with my patriot vipers at 1.3v SA and 1.28v io. My new kit will run 4400 with these settings fine too with no crashes.
> Do I need more SA/IO voltage or could it be the ram needs more voltage?


Air cooled GFX?


----------



## munternet

mickyc357 said:


> Having a weird problem. I'm running my 10900k at 5.2ghz/4.8 GHz uncore. SA is at 1.33v and io at 1.28v.
> Just in the process of tuning my gskill 4266 c17 32gb kit. I'm testing frequency at the moment and I got it up to 4533mhz on my aorus pro ax and hci memest finds no errors but it will crash in warzone within 20 mins.
> 
> Before installing this kit I was at 4400mhz with my patriot vipers at 1.3v SA and 1.28v io. My new kit will run 4400 with these settings fine too with no crashes.
> Do I need more SA/IO voltage or could it be the ram needs more voltage?


Be sure to test with GSAT (there is a link in my sig) and if you are crashing from games but nothing else you might need more VCCSA 
A rig builder in your sig can be helpful too


----------



## fray_bentos

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Air cooled GFX?


Indeed, could be RAM temps. @mickyc357 do they go over 45 C when gaming? Try putting a fan over the RAM if not already; if that stops the crashes then the issue is identified.


----------



## mickyc357

fray_bentos said:


> Indeed, could be RAM temps. @mickyc357 do they go over 45 C when gaming? Try putting a fan over the RAM if not already; if that stops the crashes then the issue is identified.


Good point I didn't think it would be an issue because my case airflow is pretty good. During memtest though the sticks did hit about 41 and 43c (the hotter stick closer to my 24 pin power cable).

Weird thing though is my voltage hasn't changed from 4400 to 4533 (default 1.5v) so would the higher clocks still generate more heat?


----------



## mickyc357

munternet said:


> Be sure to test with GSAT (there is a link in my sig) and if you are crashing from games but nothing else you might need more VCCSA
> A rig builder in your sig can be helpful too


Might just crank the vccsa to around 1.4 to test then work down?


----------



## Lownage

I just bought this 5066-C20-30-30-50 Kit









Ended up stable with this:









Could also boot 5333C20 which wasn´t stable at all.

Performance in SOTR (left 5066 19-25-25-45; right 3733 14-15-15-28 DR, both All-Core 5,2/4,6 Cache)









R6 Siege (WQHD, left 5066; right 3733):


----------



## fray_bentos

mickyc357 said:


> Good point I didn't think it would be an issue because my case airflow is pretty good. During memtest though the sticks did hit about 41 and 43c (the hotter stick closer to my 24 pin power cable).
> 
> Weird thing though is my voltage hasn't changed from 4400 to 4533 (default 1.5v) so would the higher clocks still generate more heat?


I expect higher freqs should generate more heat. If you are hitting 43 C in memtest then your sticks will be hotter in demanding games due to radiant heat from GPU (fan can't stop that), as well as hotter air in the case. 1.5 V is a lot, which is why I run mine at 1.45 V (even with a fan near them).

The fan will reveal all  I'd do that before pumping VCCSA. If you still get crashes with a fan, then back off on RAM clock/try VCCSA if you are comfortable with those voltages (I wouldn't be happy with 1.4 V VCCSA personally).


----------



## fray_bentos

Lownage said:


> I just bought this 5066-C20-30-30-50 Kit
> View attachment 2511601
> 
> 
> 
> Ended up stable with this:
> View attachment 2511600
> 
> 
> Could also boot 5333C20 which wasn´t stable at all.
> 
> Performance in SOTR (left 5066 19-25-25-45; right 3733 14-15-15-28 DR, both All-Core 5,2/4,6 Cache)
> View attachment 2511602
> 
> 
> R6 Siege (WQHD, left 5066; right 3733):
> View attachment 2511603
> View attachment 2511601


This is the best advert I have seen for sticking with Gear 1 3733 14-15-15-28 DR on RKL.


----------



## menko2

fray_bentos said:


> I expect higher freqs should generate more heat. If you are hitting 43 C in memtest then your sticks will be hotter in demanding games due to radiant heat from GPU (fan can't stop that), as well as hotter air in the case. 1.5 V is a lot, which is why I run mine at 1.45 V (even with a fan near them).
> 
> The fan will reveal all  I'd do that before pumping VCCSA. If you still get crashes with a fan, then back off on RAM clock/try VCCSA if you are comfortable with those voltages (I wouldn't be happy with 1.4 V VCCSA personally).


Does the 1.5v apply the same in dual rank 2x16GB as 2x8GB?

I wonder if single rank doesn't get as hot as dual rank modules.


----------



## Imprezzion

Hell I've ran 1.6 on dual rank 16GB sticks and it isn't that bad if you have a fan but with my GPU heat and the CPU intake rad heat going over them I have a hard time cooling 1.6v even with a fan.. they get awfully close to that 48c mark lol. 

Running 1.5v on 4400C17 is fine so far. About 39c in TM5 Extreme and around 41-42c in gaming due to GPU heat. With a fan of course. If I turn off the fan they hit 52-53c lol. And, weirdly enough, on this specific clock / voltage / timings they don't crash at 53c lol..


----------



## mickyc357

fray_bentos said:


> I expect higher freqs should generate more heat. If you are hitting 43 C in memtest then your sticks will be hotter in demanding games due to radiant heat from GPU (fan can't stop that), as well as hotter air in the case. 1.5 V is a lot, which is why I run mine at 1.45 V (even with a fan near them).
> 
> The fan will reveal all  I'd do that before pumping VCCSA. If you still get crashes with a fan, then back off on RAM clock/try VCCSA if you are comfortable with those voltages (I wouldn't be happy with 1.4 V VCCSA personally).


Is undervolting ram a thing? The xmp is rated for 1.5 but I might just drop it to 1.45 and try. You were spot on with the gaming temps. I played warzone for about 40 minutes and the hotter stick settled at 48c at 4400mhz. As soon as I turned up my exhaust fan it dropped down to 45. 

So above 45 is when things get unstable?


----------



## fray_bentos

mickyc357 said:


> Is undervolting ram a thing? The xmp is rated for 1.5 but I might just drop it to 1.45 and try. You were spot on with the gaming temps. I played warzone for about 40 minutes and the hotter stick settled at 48c at 4400mhz. As soon as I turned up my exhaust fan it dropped down to 45.
> 
> So above 45 is when things get unstable?


I and others have personally encountered my B die RAM becoming unstable and crashing games to desktop or freezing when temps get "near" 45 C.

"Undervolting" RAM: the spec for DDR4 is actually 1.2 V, but vendors increase voltage to get higher clocks and better timings. They then stick an XMP profile on with those settings and charge the end user a premium for it. Moreover, SA and IO voltages often also need to be pumped up to levels that some say are not safe in the long term. 

My sticks have an XMP profile of 3600 MHz 15-15-15-33 at 1.35 V, but if I put 1.5 V across them, I'll likely get the same/similar speed as your sticks. However, I know they will run hot and unstable at that voltage.

In short, you can set whatever voltage you like (<1.5 V is recommended for B die), but if you put a lower voltage you are unlikely to be able to hit the XMP specs printed on them. Lower voltage = less speed, but less overheating /stabillity issues. It's all a balancing act. I run 1.20 V SA and 1.20 V IO with 1.45 Vdimm and hit 4200 16-16-16-33 with no stability issues, which for my sticks and CPU is the sweet spot.


----------



## fray_bentos

menko2 said:


> Does the 1.5v apply the same in dual rank 2x16GB as 2x8GB?
> 
> I wonder if single rank doesn't get as hot as dual rank modules.


Mine are single rank and temps are borderline OK at 1.45 V (unless I put a fan right on top of them).


----------



## munternet

mickyc357 said:


> Might just crank the vccsa to around 1.4 to test then work down?


1.4v may be a little high if it only crashes occasionally in games. Maybe try 1.35v-1.36v first.
It might be that 1.4v vccsa is too high for the rest of the settings and cause instability although I would consider it safe.
Nice work on the rig builder


----------



## Gen.

Who was interested there 4000 14-15 1.55V XMP? I have screenshots of these trims. If a friend permits me, I'll post it here! In the meantime, a little test of my Oloy 3600 16-16 1.35.


----------



## Gen.

Hello again, guys!
A friend threw off the results and I am sharing with you.
Do not forget about fake CL on msi below CL15 

In the meantime, I ordered a new kit from OLOy for 179$, and they dropped in price after 2 hours and already cost 169$  ND4U0836144BRADE


----------



## Gen.

We meet insane modules - Technical-Support-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


----------



## Waspinator

Hi guys, I finally found same minded guys.
For dual rank I have F4-3600C14D-32GTRG and on the way F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA. 10900K + MSI Gaming Carbon Z590.

I didn't know about these 4000MHz CL14-15-15-35 1.55V, but they're not on sale yet, so no harm. Voltage is very high though, I don't think that would be stable for me. With 3600 14-15-15 I got highest stable voltage on 4133 16-16-16-34, it's stable at 1.49V, but max still stable is only 1.53V. So I think 1.55V is out of reach for me with 55°C Karhu and 60°C Prime95 Large. And I even installed a 120mm 1000rpm fan in drive cage. At least I think temperature is the problem.

F4-3600C14D-32GTRG do:
3600 14-14-14-30 1.37V
3600 14-15-15-35 1.37V
3800 14-16-16-36 1.43V
4000 16-16-16-34 1.42V
4000 14-16-16-32 1.51V
4000 14-15-15-32 - not stable up to 1.55V
4133 16-16-16-34 1.46V
4200 16-16-16-34 1.50V, just some medium stability though, 1h 45min Karhu
4266 17-18-18-38 1.45V
4400 17-18-18-38 1.47V, still have to test Karhu stability though, 4400 17-17-17 was no go
4400 17-17-17-36 1.47V, better stability than 4200 CL16, Prime95 Large with all subs tightened 18h+, Karhu only 3min on just primary timings, TestMem5 anta777 with all subs 15min
4533 18-18-18-38 1.43V, again only Prime95 Large 12h+ stable

CL15 boots only on 3600 CL15.
From this it is clear 4000 16-16-16 1.40V and 4000 14-15-15 1.55V are better bins than 3600 14-15-15. Last one maybe not necessarily, could be just high temperature problem with mine.

I would rank them like this until someone corrects me:
4000 16-16-16 1.40V = 4000 14-15-15 1.55V = 4400 17-18-18 1.50V > 4266 17-18-18 1.50V = 3800 14-16-16 1.50V = 3600 14-15-15 1.45V > 4000 16-19-19 1.40V > 3600 16-16-16 1.35V = 3200 14-14-14 1.35V

4000 16-16-16 has really low voltage and that is always good for OC and if there's temperature problem like on dual rank B-Die. It reminds me of 3600 15-15-15 1.35V which is still considered one of the best single rank bins. Though my F4-4000C15D-16GVK worked 1.33V and F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB 1.34V. But for dual rank it is probably way harder to find a kit that does 4000 16-16-16 1.40V.

Btw, equippr + mailboxde worked like a charm for those outside of Germany/Austria.


----------



## NIK1

I am tuning up my brothers pc today and want to give the overclock on its memory a try. The mb is a Asrock B460m Pro4s/ac . I has 2 eight gb sticks of Crucial Ballistix BL8G30C15U4R.M8FE 3000 mhz memory running at the stock 1.350 v at 15 16 16 35. This mb can only oc to 3000 since its the last speed on the list in the bios you can choose. The memory QVL on the Asrock page for this model shows 3000 is the tops it can handle. Curious if anyone has some "timings" and "voltage" suggestions I can try to get this ram nice and tight and working better than stock. Any help appreciated...…


----------



## robalm

I do not understand how I can run such a low IO / SA on such high frequencies (1.15v/1.15v bios). 
Seems to be more unstable if i add more IO / SA.


----------



## Waspinator

My 10900K needs 1.15/1.20V to be absolutely stable on 4200 16-16-16 and 1.20/1.10V for 4266 17-17-17. Minumum SA was 1.11V and IO one day 1.11V, next day 1.16V. It differs from day to day. I already noticed that on my 10600K when I only added +0.01-0.02V to minimum still stable and then got BSODs in idle 2 following days.
So I test Prime95 Large for an hour at least 2 different days, then add around +0.05V. It's just not a fixed value like VDIMM. But I don't know the science behind this behaviour.
But 1.25/1.20V works 100% for me up to 4400, it's not more unstable on lower frequencies.

4266 is not high, 4533-4600 is where you need higher SA/IO, but still fine for 24/7.
2x8GB: 4600 17-17-17 - 1.35/1.30V
2x16GB: 4533 18-18-18 - 1.40/1.25V


----------



## SoldierRBT

32GB 4600 16-17-17-34 1.62v DRAM 1.33v IO 1.34v SA TM5 Extreme


----------



## YaqY

Some Stability testing at 4400 Ram. LINX is 1.27Vcore Vmin for 52/49 HT ON at 220-230 Amps. 4500 Doesn't train consistently stable all the time, i suspect maybe the ram isn't amazing for it.


----------



## Falkentyne

YaqY said:


> Some Stability testing at 4400 Ram. LINX is 1.27Vcore Vmin for 52/49 HT ON at 220-230 Amps. 4500 Doesn't train consistently stable all the time, i suspect maybe the ram isn't amazing for it.
> View attachment 2511917
> View attachment 2511918
> View attachment 2511919
> View attachment 2511920


Why the sky high TWR?


----------



## YaqY

Falkentyne said:


> Why the sky high TWR?


Fails karhu even at all values 10-18.


----------



## The Pook

anyone with a Maximus 13 Hero able to get 4 DIMMs stable >4000?

longest I got RAM Test to run @ 4133 was 30 minutes, usually it only lasts a few minutes. there's a 4x8 4266 B-Die kit on the QVL, it _shouldn't_ be an issue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## nikolaus85

i tried tm5 extreme with the same settings and is not stable anymore: always pops up 1 random error during the 3 cycles. How can it be possible? Maybe cause of higher summer temps? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## robalm

Can anyone help me out with the RT-L/IO-L?
I have round trip enable in bios.

4000mhz cl 17 i get 62 - 64 - 7 - 7
4133mhz cl 17 i can still run 62 - 64 - 7 - 7
4200mhz cl 17 i get 63 - 65 - 8 - 8
4266Mhz cl 17 i get 63 - 65 - *7* -8

I would like to go with 4200mhz cl 17, but on 4266mhz cl 17 i get a little bit better O-L (from 8 to 7)
But i still can't boot 4200Mhz cl 17 RT-L/IO-L 63 - 65 - *7* -8. Is there way to lower them?

Thanks


----------



## bscool

The Pook said:


> anyone with a Maximus 13 Hero able to get 4 DIMMs stable >4000?
> 
> longest I got RAM Test to run @ 4133 was 30 minutes, usually it only lasts a few minutes. there's a 4x8 4266 B-Die kit on the QVL, it _shouldn't_ be an issue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Welcome to z590 beta tester program  Just my 2 cents the variation I see on people with z590 Apex is all over the place. I imagine 4 dim 4000+ takes chicken bones and a full moon.

Oh I see you are still using 10th gen cpu though. Should be easier but still might need New Moon lol I kid. Z590 has just been more frustrating/challenging/fun? than I remember z370,390 or z490.

But even using z490 MB and 10th gen cpu with 4 dims was tough at 4000+ on Asus. So I imagine it is still similar with 10th gen cpu and z590 MB. MSI z490 Unify did better(4266+) with 4 dim and z490 Hero(4000 was tough) I had.

Edit looking at gskill ram config for z590 Hero with 4x8 shows 3600 max. I think you have your work cut out to get 4000+ with 4x8.


----------



## Johaho

32GB Trident Z RGB
Bios Settings: Vcore Override 1.25V; DRAM:1.46V; VCCIO:1.26V; VCCSA:1.25V
ODT: WR:80; NOM:0; Park:34


----------



## The Pook

bscool said:


> Welcome to z590 beta tester program  Just my 2 cents the variation I see on people with z590 Apex is all over the place. I imagine 4 dim 4000+ takes chicken bones and a full moon.
> 
> Oh I see you are still using 10th gen cpu though. Should be easier but still might need New Moon lol I kid. Z590 has just been more frustrating/challenging/fun? than I remember z370,390 or z490.
> 
> But even using z490 MB and 10th gen cpu with 4 dims was tough at 4000+ on Asus. So I imagine it is still similar with 10th gen cpu and z590 MB. MSI z490 Unify did better(4266+) with 4 dim and z490 Hero(4000 was tough) I had.
> 
> Edit looking at gskill ram config for z590 Hero with 4x8 shows 3600 max. I think you have your work cut out to get 4000+ with 4x8.


4000 works fine at loose timings, but if I tighten them it's iffy 

just flashed to the 0902 beta from 0707 but it doesn't seem to have helped


----------



## bscool

The Pook said:


> 4000 works fine at loose timings, but if I tighten them it's iffy
> 
> just flashed to the 0902 beta from 0707 but it doesn't seem to have helped


Yep that is what I found on z490 Hero with 4x8(I think it would do 4000c16-16-16). 2x16 will do 4266c16-17-17, maybe higher but I don't have that MB anymore.

Also a note about Asus z590 if using Flashback it does not update the microcode, you have to use EZ flash for those who want the newer microcode. At least on z590 Apex and I think people on z590 Hero reported it also.


----------



## Waspinator

This is what I achieved with *F4-3600C14D-32GTRG*:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/nku6i3
4133 16-16-16 1.49V, 4266 17-17-17 1.45V and 4533 18-18-18 1.45V are possible. 4200 CL16, 4400 CL17 and anything 4600 is not stable.
I will report if *F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA* are any better. I hope for at least 4200 16-16-16 if not anything better.
But these 3600 14-15-15 are nothing special, unless cooling is really holding me back and not the ICs. But single rank 3600 CL14 Neo's were really good, 4400 16-16-16 and 4600 17-17-17 stable.


----------



## robalm

Can i degrade the cpu/ram by running [email protected] anta777.cfg alot?

I can't get my ram stable so i have to run over and over.


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> Can i degrade the cpu/ram by running [email protected] anta777.cfg alot?
> 
> I can't get my ram stable so i have to run over and over.


Good question hehe. I must've run about 40-50 hours so far and no degradation yet. CPU load isn't all that high even tho it shows 100%, you run a certain risk when using SA >1.45v or IO >1.35v or DRAM >1.65v but then again I wouldn't use those values 24/7 anyway so..

My RAM is luckily finally stable now at reasonable clocks. I have 2 stable profiles set up now. 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T @ 1.35v SA, 1.25v IO and 1.50v DRAM and a second one if the DIMM's get too hot in the summer at 4200 17-17-17-36-300-2T with 1.30v SA, 1.20v IO and 1.41v DRAM. Both have the exact same secondary and tertiary timings and ODT's. RTL/IO is 66/66/6/6 for 4400 and 64/65/6/7 for 4200.


----------



## Waspinator

CPU won't degrade if you keep it at max SA/IO 1.35/1.30V, maybe even 1.45/1.40V.
RAM, I've been pushing various B-Die kits for the last half year up to 1.55V, that certainly won't degrade them even stress testing 24/7/365. 70-80°C, that's another matter, but for that your case would have to be without a single fan.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Good question hehe. I must've run about 40-50 hours so far and no degradation yet. CPU load isn't all that high even tho it shows 100%, you run a certain risk when using SA >1.45v or IO >1.35v or DRAM >1.65v but then again I wouldn't use those values 24/7 anyway so..
> 
> My RAM is luckily finally stable now at reasonable clocks. I have 2 stable profiles set up now. 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T @ 1.35v SA, 1.25v IO and 1.50v DRAM and a second one if the DIMM's get too hot in the summer at 4200 17-17-17-36-300-2T with 1.30v SA, 1.20v IO and 1.41v DRAM. Both have the exact same secondary and tertiary timings and ODT's. RTL/IO is 66/66/6/6 for 4400 and 64/65/6/7 for 4200.


64/65/6/7 for 4200? My board loves 61/63/7/7 for 4200 C16... weird


----------



## Waspinator

I said 4133 16-16-16 is stable. Then of course also 4400 17-17-17 and 4533 18-18-18, you just have to up tWR, on CL18 also tFAW 6/6/24 and tCWL 18 instead of 16.
Problem before was just the VDIMM. I thought at least for voltage Prime95 is good as I was doing comparisons one time and it found errors sooner than Karhu. But Karhu actually needs +0.05V to even +0.07V on 4533 CL18.

For 4600 CL18 (I also tried 19-21-21) it's for sure my IMC, I only dared to try up to 1.45/1.40V and 4533 CL18 requires 1.40/1.25V, and single rank 4600 CL17 1.35/1.30V. I predict it would need around 1.55/1.40V and that is too much for 24/7 anyway.

So maybe these 3600 14-15-15 1.45V aren't that bad. But I still think they're not binned as well for low voltage as 4000 16-16-16 1.40V or even 4000 16-19-19 1.40V.
I still don't know about 4000 14-15-15 1.55V, isn't that voltage too high for XMP? I think highest before were 1.50V. With dual rank I only had stability up to 1.53V, so these kits are made only for those that are sure they can get 1.55V stable. With 1.55V I think most these kits do 4000 14-15-15 anyway, if temperature is low of course.


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> 64/65/6/7 for 4200? My board loves 61/63/7/7 for 4200 C16... weird


Probably because RTL IO is kinda dependant on CAS and I run 17 so I can run much lower voltages. It doesn't POST at 63 at all on 4200 lol. Performance is fine tho. 66GB R/W/C and about 37.5-37.8ns. 4400C17 is obviously faster but even with a fan they hit about 40-41c at 22c ambient. If it gets hot here like, 30-32c that might get unstable temp wise (my DIMM's hate anything over 47c) so I made that 4200 profile just in case I get temperature related crashes in the summer.


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> Probably because RTL IO is kinda dependant on CAS and I run 17 so I can run much lower voltages. It doesn't POST at 63 at all on 4200 lol. Performance is fine tho. 66GB R/W/C and about 37.5-37.8ns. 4400C17 is obviously faster but even with a fan they hit about 40-41c at 22c ambient. If it gets hot here like, 30-32c that might get unstable temp wise (my DIMM's hate anything over 47c) so I made that 4200 profile just in case I get temperature related crashes in the summer.


_Watercooled dimms_ ftw


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Probably because RTL IO is kinda dependant on CAS and I run 17 so I can run much lower voltages. It doesn't POST at 63 at all on 4200 lol. Performance is fine tho. 66GB R/W/C and about 37.5-37.8ns. 4400C17 is obviously faster but even with a fan they hit about 40-41c at 22c ambient. If it gets hot here like, 30-32c that might get unstable temp wise (my DIMM's hate anything over 47c) so I made that 4200 profile just in case I get temperature related crashes in the summer.


_Face palm_, ugh every time I take a break from overclocking I come back all rusty haha Was wondering why I was seeing 61/63/7/7 for 4133, 4200, and 4266 

After reading over the last 150 pages in the thread and getting caught up, I really want a dual rank kit now. Yall have some crazy results. Appreciate all the work you've put in here.

This about the best I can get out of my 4133C18 Team Group SR kit without really pushing VDIMM.

Specs:
10600k
5.0ghz/ 4.7ghz cache
1.365V (1.35V vMin) LLC 4
MSI Z490 Unify A80 bios
4266 C16-16-16-340 1.51v vcore
1.32SA 1.28IO










https://imgur.com/a/I26inMg


----------



## nikolaus85

is there any difference between testmem5 and testmem5 advanced? I used the newer advanced 4.1 released in 2021 with the same anta extreme preset and i passed it the 1st time without errors.


----------



## menko2

Imprezzion said:


> Probably because RTL IO is kinda dependant on CAS and I run 17 so I can run much lower voltages. It doesn't POST at 63 at all on 4200 lol. Performance is fine tho. 66GB R/W/C and about 37.5-37.8ns. 4400C17 is obviously faster but even with a fan they hit about 40-41c at 22c ambient. If it gets hot here like, 30-32c that might get unstable temp wise (my DIMM's hate anything over 47c) so I made that 4200 profile just in case I get temperature related crashes in the summer.


G.Skill 4000mhz [email protected] arriving Monday.

F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA

Finally passing to dual rank. Results soon. I hope I'm luck with the binning.


----------



## Waspinator

I will also post results for F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA. I don't have much hope though as I already have 3600 14-15-15. If it doesn't do 4533 CL17, then it's the same, few 0.01V up or down doesn't make difference if you can't go one step further with frequency. And CL16 is too low to get any good speed and CL18 too high for IMC to handle.
I still don't know how 4000 16-19-19 differs. 20-16-16-40 only requires around 1.35V, so at least on XMP both should be binned the same if they are both 4000 CL14 1.40V. And I'm pretty sure G.Skill bins just on XMP anyway, so both should be exactly the same. And why even go 16-19-19 on B-Die, that's just leaving too much performance on the table for those that don't OC RAM.

I have doubts any of these will do 4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V. My 3600 14-15-15 does 4000 14-16-16 1.52V and I guess 4000 14-15-15 would need 1.55-1.60V.
So that should be absolute top bin. 4400 17-18-18-38 1.50V probably also as good, mine 3600 need 1.52V.

I'll update this as soon as I get 4000 16-16-16:
1. tier 1: 4400 17-18-18 1.50V = 4000 14-15-15 1.55V = 4000 16-16-16 1.40V = 4000 16-19-19 1.40V
2. tier 2: 4266 17-18-18 1.50V = 3800 14-16-16 1.50V = 3600 14-15-15 1.45V
3. tier 3: 3600 16-16-16 1.35V = 3200 14-14-14 1.35V


----------



## menko2

Waspinator said:


> I will also post results for F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA. I don't have much hope though as I already have 3600 14-15-15. If it doesn't do 4533 CL17, then it's the same, few 0.01V up or down doesn't make difference if you can't go one step further with frequency. And CL16 is too low to get any good speed and CL18 too high for IMC to handle.
> I still don't know how 4000 16-19-19 differs. 20-16-16-40 only requires around 1.35V, so at least on XMP both should be binned the same if they are both 4000 CL14 1.40V. And I'm pretty sure G.Skill bins just on XMP anyway, so both should be exactly the same. And why even go 16-19-19 on B-Die, that's just leaving too much performance on the table for those that don't OC RAM.
> 
> I have doubts any of these will do 4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V. My 3600 14-15-15 does 4000 14-16-16 1.52V and I guess 4000 14-15-15 would need 1.55-1.60V.
> So that should be absolute top bin. 4400 17-18-18-38 1.50V probably also as good, mine 3600 need 1.52V.
> 
> I'll update this as soon as I get 4000 16-16-16:
> 1. tier 1: 4400 17-18-18 1.50V = 4000 14-15-15 1.55V = 4000 16-16-16 1.40V = 4000 16-19-19 1.40V
> 2. tier 2: 4266 17-18-18 1.50V = 3800 14-16-16 1.50V = 3600 14-15-15 1.45V
> 3. tier 3: 3600 16-16-16 1.35V = 3200 14-14-14 1.35V


I'll be happy if I can get 4200mhz 16-16-16-36 or 4400mhz c17. 

I'm in Spain and summer temps are getting higher already so let's see what I can i get with 1.45v for the ram and 1.25-1.30 for sa-io.

I have a 120mm fan blowing over the ram but temps are getting high here.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Making progress!

4400 C16 1.55V
1.36SA 1.30IO

Still in the testing phase but the results look promising.


----------



## LQ2apos

My very modest OC









I find this interesting: TestMem5 (with profile Extreme1 by anta777) and OCCT memory AVX2 test both pass successfully with slightly tighter values (tRAS = 35, tRC = 58, tWR = 12, tRTP = 8, tWRRD_sg = 28, tWTR_L = 8, tXP = 4). Meanwhile, OCCT CPU AVX2 test catches an error within 15 minutes if tWR = 12, 30 minutes if tRAS = 35, but takes much longer to find errors with other timing values. Do you guys have any idea why?



Spoiler: My last attempt (I had not known about OCCT CPU AVX2 test yet)


----------



## Waspinator

menko2 said:


> I'll be happy if I can get 4200mhz 16-16-16-36 or 4400mhz c17.
> 
> I'm in Spain and summer temps are getting higher already so let's see what I can i get with 1.45v for the ram and 1.25-1.30 for sa-io.
> 
> I have a 120mm fan blowing over the ram but temps are getting high here.


Temperature doesn't even change that much with frequency, mine go from 3600 CL14 1.36V 51,5°C to 4533 CL18 1.50V 56°C. 4200 CL16 is already at 54°C. But they're Karhu stable anyway.
It's mainly tREFI that has problems with high temperature. I just keep it on Auto 16000-18000, not even 20000 is stable.
Plus you can't get stability above 1.53V with these temps. But I don't think lower temperature will solve that, single rank was 15°C cooler and it still wasn't stable at 1.55V+. So I guess you need to go 30-35°C.
If you get 55°C in stress tests, you will get max 40°C during normal work/gaming. That means once you are stable in stress tests, no summer will be that hot to cause instability.

With 1.50-1.53V you can expect:
4200 16-16-16
4266 16-17-17
4400 17-17-17
4533 18-18-18 - SA/IO 1.40/1.25V for me, so just stick to 4400, it's way easier to run. Also I get better write and latency in AIDA64.

1.45V is not that much for B-Die, expect 4100 CL16, 4266 CL17 or 4400 CL18.

I still expect something more from 4000 16-16-16, but they seem to be stuck at Deutsche Post for a week. My 3600 14-15-15 need 1.43V for 4000 16-16-16, so it would be really nice if they're minus 0.05V across the board.


----------



## The Pook

pretty sure I'm just dealing with a BIOS bug, but figure I ask anyway: is tWR dependent on any other timing? 

can't get anything over 3733 to be stable on this board, so until I get a new kit and/or a new BIOS releases I'm just dialing it in for 3733, but tWR keeps automagically changing to 15. 










all my timings are identical to what I ran at 4133 on my old board (or they're tighter) so it doesn't make much sense for it to default higher. 

por que?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

The Pook said:


> pretty sure I'm just dealing with a BIOS bug, but figure I ask anyway: is tWR dependent on any other timing?
> 
> can't get anything over 3733 to be stable on this board, so until I get a new kit and/or a new BIOS releases I'm just dialing it in for 3733, but tWR keeps automagically changing to 15.
> 
> View attachment 2512593
> 
> 
> all my timings are identical to what I ran at 4133 on my old board (or they're tighter) so it doesn't make much sense for it to default higher.
> 
> por que?


tWRPRE = tCWL + tWR + tCCD(4 by default)


----------



## The Pook

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> tWRPRE = tCWL + tWR + tCCD(4 by default)


my hero ❤


----------



## 2500k_2

I remember someone wrote here that on a 4 dimm motherboard it is impossible to exceed 4400 Gsat 16х2 . Let's prove the opposite.


----------



## YaqY

2500k_2 said:


> I remember someone wrote here that on a 4 dimm motherboard it is impossible to exceed 4400 Gsat 16х2 . Let's prove the opposite.
> View attachment 2512612


Nice results here, did you tune skews/odts etc to recieve this result? What ram is this?


----------



## 2500k_2

YaqY said:


> Nice results here, did you tune skews/odts etc to recieve this result? What ram is this?


F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB ( September 2020)
odt 80 40 34 / Vref 0.52
p.s
I know 3 people who bought exactly the silver version of 4000 cl 17 and all worked 4500 - 4533 cl 16. Maybe random. Magic xD


----------



## YaqY

2500k_2 said:


> F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB ( September 2020)
> odt 80 40 34 / Vref 0.52
> p.s
> I know 3 people who bought exactly the silver version of 4000 cl 17 and all worked 4500 - 4533 cl 16. Maybe random. Magic xD


For me the biggest issue on the z490 unify was long term stability, but your results are strong, good job. I noticed RTL CHB is a bit loose, does this train better for you?


----------



## nikolaus85

2500k_2 said:


> F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB ( September 2020)
> odt 80 40 34 / Vref 0.52
> p.s
> I know 3 people who bought exactly the silver version of 4000 cl 17 and all worked 4500 - 4533 cl 16. Maybe random. Magic xD


nice result, but i have 2 questions if i can ask. Why does your tm5 says x10 instead of x20? And how can it be so fast (mine lasts over 2 hours to complete the 3 cycles)? Thank you.


----------



## 2500k_2

YaqY said:


> For me the biggest issue on the z490 unify was long term stability, but your results are strong, good job. I noticed RTL CHB is a bit loose, does this train better for you?


yes you noticed right. 1 rank in channel B unfortunately does not want to shrink to 7. But I am working on this xd


----------



## 2500k_2

nikolaus85 said:


> nice result, but i have 2 questions if i can ask. Why does your tm5 says x10 instead of x20? And how can it be so fast (mine lasts over 2 hours to complete the 3 cycles)? Thank you.


x10 - I turned off HT / 
Testing speed depends on Tfaw. Maybe you have a high one. Try tRRD_s - 4 / tFaw - 16 ( RRD_s*4)


----------



## nikolaus85

2500k_2 said:


> x10 - I turned off HT /
> Testing speed depends on Tfaw. Maybe you have a high one. Try tRRD_s - 4 / tFaw - 16 ( RRD_s*4)


well you are right: my trrd_s and tfaw are 6/50, but last time i tried to change them i had some issues. Since my rtls and iols are 64/66 and 7/7 and my latency is 34.6 (last time i tested with aida64) does it worth to tweak those values? Is speed up tm5 the only benefit?


----------



## 2500k_2

nikolaus85 said:


> well you are right: my trrd_s and tfaw are 6/50, but last time i tried to change them i had some issues. Since my rtls and iols are 64/66 and 7/7 and my latency is 34.6 (last time i tested with aida64) does it worth to tweak those values? Is speed up tm5 the only benefit?


If you are satisfied, you can leave the old settings. tFaw does not affect memory performance much. Of the secondary timings, the biggest influencers are tRFC and tREFI


Spoiler: influence tFaw 






















But if you want to play Super pi, then you need to squeeze everything xd / Even something that cannot be squeezed.


----------



## YaqY

2500k_2 said:


> If you are satisfied, you can leave the old settings. tFaw does not affect memory performance much. Of the secondary timings, the biggest influencers are tRFC and tREFI
> 
> 
> Spoiler: influence tFaw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2512640
> View attachment 2512641
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if you want to play Super pi, then you need to squeeze everything xd / Even something that cannot be squeezed.


TRRDS/TRRDL/TFAW are all huge for performance. Try running something like linpack and see how much more power/current the cpu draws with them auto versus 4/6/16. In terms of real performance the effect is quite large, try SOTTR for example, Aida fails to show the gains from tuning this timing.


----------



## nikolaus85

YaqY said:


> TRRDS/TRRDL/TFAW are all huge for performance. Try running something like linpack and see how much more power/current the cpu draws with them auto versus 4/6/16. In terms of real performance the effect is quite large, try SOTTR for example, Aida fails to show the gains from tuning this timing.


are we talking about a huge difference in gaming? That is the only thing i care, i am not a fan of superpi et similia .


----------



## YaqY

nikolaus85 said:


> are we talking about a huge difference in gaming? That is the only thing i care, i am not a fan of superpi et similia .


Yes they are important values for gaming, and usually bdie does 4/6/16 no problem.


----------



## Imprezzion

Keep in mind driving 6/4/16 or even 4/4/16 like I am doing at 4400 will increase your CPU load and temps under AVX / FMA3 loads significantly. Test with a AVX test that isn't Prime95 as well. You can use Prime95 but it draws SO much power from the CPU it's almost considered dangerous especially in Small / Smallest FFT setting. 355w power draw @ 5.3Ghz all core is normal for Prime95 Small FFT for me at those memory settings. This can result in 90-94c core temps. It's roughly 35-40w more than the stock tFAW at 46.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> Keep in mind driving 6/4/16 or even 4/4/16 like I am doing at 4400 will increase your CPU load and temps under AVX / FMA3 loads significantly. Test with a AVX test that isn't Prime95 as well. You can use Prime95 but it draws SO much power from the CPU it's almost considered dangerous especially in Small / Smallest FFT setting. 355w power draw @ 5.3Ghz all core is normal for Prime95 Small FFT for me at those memory settings. This can result in 90-94c core temps. It's roughly 35-40w more than the stock tFAW at 46.


It is worth it for the performance gain. Tune memory then cpu after memory.


----------



## Imprezzion

Oh yeah it is but it was more a warning to expect higher CPU temps when dropping tFAW that far from 50 to 16. I went to 4400 straight 17's at 4/4/16 and RTL IO at 66/66/6/6 and dropped CPU to 5.2 all core 4.6 cache and that barely touched 85c even in Prime95 Small FFT AVX. Bit safer this way with higher ambients coming this summer. I am still concerned about my DIMM temps tho. Even with a 140mm blowing on them the GPU heat and such will push them to 41c ish in gaming. That's fine for now, but if ambients are 30+c it will go over 47c at which point my DIMMs lose stability on 4400C17 @ 1.50v.

As I said before I have a second profile in my BIOS for 5.1 all core 4.5 cache and 4200 straight 17's on 1.41v which should stay under the temp limit and remained stable in TM5 Anta777 Extreme with all the case fans and the RAM fan turned off to force 52c DIMM temp so that should save my stability in the summer lol. CPU also drops from ~85c to ~73c lol. (1.354v for 5.2 and 1.270v for 5.1)


----------



## sixty9sublime

2500k_2 said:


> I remember someone wrote here that on a 4 dimm motherboard it is impossible to exceed 4400 Gsat 16х2 . Let's prove the opposite.
> View attachment 2512612


Not sure how you're stable with such terrible RTL/IOL lol 

63/66/7/9 how didn't you catch those?


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Keep in mind driving 6/4/16 or even 4/4/16 like I am doing at 4400 will increase your CPU load and temps under AVX / FMA3 loads significantly. Test with a AVX test that isn't Prime95 as well. You can use Prime95 but it draws SO much power from the CPU it's almost considered dangerous especially in Small / Smallest FFT setting. 355w power draw @ 5.3Ghz all core is normal for Prime95 Small FFT for me at those memory settings. This can result in 90-94c core temps. It's roughly 35-40w more than the stock tFAW at 46.


Wow that's good to know! I'll keep that in mind for summertime stability.


----------



## nikolaus85

YaqY said:


> Yes they are important values for gaming, and usually bdie does 4/6/16 no problem.


is there any relation between trrds/l and tfaw and rtl/iols? Should i disable the memory training to set them 4/6/16? Thank you

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## YaqY

nikolaus85 said:


> is there any relation between trrds/l and tfaw and rtl/iols? Should i disable the memory training to set them 4/6/16? Thank you
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


You can set Rtls and iols manually so they train the same.


----------



## nikolaus85

YaqY said:


> You can set Rtls and iols manually so they train the same.


by setting them on dynamic and disabling memory fast boot? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Waspinator

*F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V*
Some quick tests:
3700 14-15-15-32 - no boot
3700 15-15-15-32 - no boot
4000 16-16-16-34 - 1.41V, really tightly binned, as I expected, 1.40V is Karhu stable at least 1 hour, but I doubt that 10 hours, so 1.41V is for 100% stability
4200 16-16-16-34 - 1.48V
4266 16-16-16-34 - 1.52V
4300 16-16-16-34 - not stable up to 1.53V
4400 17-17-17-36 - 1.49V
4533 18-18-18-38 - not stable

Binned for CL16 as expected. Maybe for CL17 OC, 4400 17-18-18 1.50V is a little better, but XMP doesn't guarantee it.

I'm satisfied, F4-3600C14D-32GTRG worked 4200 CL16 1.50V, 4400 CL17 1.52V and 4533 CL18 1.51V. So a little better.
At least for Intel, for AMD 1:1 3600 14-15-15 1.45V or 4000 14-15-15 1.55V are best. For Intel I don't think you can get much better.
This XMP is especially suited for those with bad IMC where CL16 OC is most important, like on 10600K.


----------



## mickyc357

After doing heaps of research it seems my aorus board is trash for ram oc. The best I can get my 32gb is to around 40.4ns at 4400 17-18-18-37 trfc 300 and trefi 60000. Playing with other timings didn't really affect my latency. (The memory can probably do c16 but havent pushed it that far yet). The main problem seems to be my RTLS and iols being trained at 87/74/87/72 15/4/15/4. I'm on bios F7C. Has anyone managed to get a gigabyte board to train better?


----------



## musician

F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA @3866C15
My daily for hot summer.


----------



## Waspinator

Best latency I got so far on MSI Z590 Gaming Carbon is 44ns on 4300 16-16-16. I have no idea how you guys get sub 40ns. Everything is tightened to the max. I have very slight idea how to do RTLs, but IOL Init and RTL Init board does Auto already lowest stable, 21/67/4. Newest 1.30 BIOS trains much lower RTLs, but subtimings are all over the place every single boot, on 1.20 it's what you set, you get. But I might try it, I have profiles saved on drives anyway, so not much to lose.
I also checked all previous results on single rank kits and even DDR3 kits, always around 46ns, so my current result is my best so far. It better be, these DIMMs were 360€.

I also have to get into tXP again, I think my board sets PPD 0 and that's why nothing was happening when I lowered tXP to 1. Others also say they can lower it to 4 or so, so my 1 surely didn't do anything.

Isn't MSI supposed to be good for memory OC? I bought it mainly because they claim DDR4-5333. I like their BIOS by far anyway (Gigabyte is close second), so at least for DDR4 I'm staying on MSI.

Also I have no idea how to get temps down from 55°C, DIMMs are under Noctua NH-D15 anyway, can you even do anything?


----------



## robalm

musician said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA @3866C15
> My daily for hot summer.


1.4v SA? can't you run like 1.15v (or even lower) at that low mhz?


----------



## musician

robalm said:


> 1.4v SA? can't you run like 1.15v (or even lower) at that low mhz?


Not really. It´s Rocketlake, gear1. Most people can´t even boot at that speed. And usually it requires SA around 1.45V.


----------



## bscool

@Waspinator Did you try setting PPD to 1? When I messed with the 11900k in my z490 Unify with a newer bios it needed to be opposite of what gave lower latency previously using 10th gen. So if you haven't tried it try it, if you have tried it neverminded  I think it only applies to 11th gen CPUs though.

The other thing that reduces latency is cache speed. Also having minimal to nothing running in Windows. A clean OS is needed for good latency.









Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


Alright, here's another one to confirm that the combo 11900K + Hero XIII does have severe issues with DIMMs: Until two hours ago, I've been toying around with this combo (BIOS 0704) and 2xF4-4600C18-8GTZR (B-Die). I could not go any higher than 3733 in Gear 1 and 4309 in Gear 2, no matter what...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Dim0n527

Hi from Russia to all.
What u think about DD4-4900 CR1 on GENE XI for stable?
Now i try to configurate CL17/CL18 and go to 300% in Dang Wang.
In memtest i use stock cpu. For everyday 5200\4900 1.288v


Spoiler: screenshots


----------



## Imprezzion

Dim0n527 said:


> Hi from Russia to all.
> What u think about DD4-4900 CR1 on GENE XI for stable?
> Now i try to configurate CL17/CL18 and go to 300% in Dang Wang.
> In memtest i use stock cpu. For everyday 5200\4900 1.288v
> 
> 
> Spoiler: screenshots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2512804
> View attachment 2512805


Wow. I have never seen above 4600 CR1 lol. Incredible.


----------



## asdkj1740

would like to oc my 16G*2 samsung b die dual rank kit to around 4400~4500mhz on my z590 msi mobo, with 10th gpu.
tried msi "memory try it" 4266c17 and it works, but the latency is high, almost 50ns.
tried 4400c17 memory try it, it boots but can be stable tested by tm5 extreme.

any msi users would like to share the bios settings like timmings of 4400~4500mhz c17 oc??
thanks.

i cant even find the memory force bar in bios....


----------



## fray_bentos

asdkj1740 said:


> would like to oc my 16G*2 samsung b die dual rank kit to around 4400~4500mhz on my z590 msi mobo, with 10th gpu.
> tried msi "memory try it" 4266c17 and it works, but the latency is high, almost 50ns.
> tried 4400c17 memory try it, it boots but can be stable tested by tm5 extreme.
> 
> any msi users would like to share the bios settings like timmings of 4400~4500mhz c17 oc??
> thanks.
> 
> i cant even find the memory force bar in bios....


Before proceeding any further check your SA and IO voltages set by MemTryIt. I once found it had set 1.45 V and 1.55 V; I rebooted very quickly and manually set them to voltages I was happy with (1.20 V for me on both, which runs 4200 MHz 16-16-16-33 @1.45 Vdimm).


----------



## menko2

Imprezzion said:


> Keep in mind driving 6/4/16 or even 4/4/16 like I am doing at 4400 will increase your CPU load and temps under AVX / FMA3 loads significantly. Test with a AVX test that isn't Prime95 as well. You can use Prime95 but it draws SO much power from the CPU it's almost considered dangerous especially in Small / Smallest FFT setting. 355w power draw @ 5.3Ghz all core is normal for Prime95 Small FFT for me at those memory settings. This can result in 90-94c core temps. It's roughly 35-40w more than the stock tFAW at 46.


I finally got the kit 2x16gb 4000mhz [email protected]

Im staying at 4300mhz because its very hot here in Spain already. I do have still to work the terciaries and rtl iols.

When i try to change the rtl and iols the bios doesnt boot. i havent found a guide to overclock this values.

Any help with it?


----------



## asdkj1740

fray_bentos said:


> Before proceeding any further check your SA and IO voltages set by MemTryIt. I once found it had set 1.45 V and 1.55 V; I rebooted very quickly and manually set them to voltages I was happy with (1.20 V for me on both, which runs 4200 MHz 16-16-16-33 @1.45 Vdimm).


i notice that too.
for 4266c17 memory try it , the sa and io are 1.4/1.3 respectively.
i got instant errors(a lot) when running tm5 extreme , at 4400c17.
i tried 80/60/60 (which are the xmp values).

i cant even pass the first minute tm5 extreme without errors...


----------



## The Pook

Waspinator said:


> Best latency I got so far on MSI Z590 Gaming Carbon is 44ns on 4300 16-16-16. I have no idea how you guys get sub 40ns. Everything is tightened to the max. I have very slight idea how to do RTLs, but IOL Init and RTL Init board does Auto already lowest stable, 21/67/4. Newest 1.30 BIOS trains much lower RTLs, but subtimings are all over the place every single boot, on 1.20 it's what you set, you get. But I might try it, I have profiles saved on drives anyway, so not much to lose.
> I also checked all previous results on single rank kits and even DDR3 kits, always around 46ns, so my current result is my best so far. It better be, these DIMMs were 360€.
> 
> I also have to get into tXP again, I think my board sets PPD 0 and that's why nothing was happening when I lowered tXP to 1. Others also say they can lower it to 4 or so, so my 1 surely didn't do anything.
> 
> Isn't MSI supposed to be good for memory OC? I bought it mainly because they claim DDR4-5333. I like their BIOS by far anyway (Gigabyte is close second), so at least for DDR4 I'm staying on MSI.
> 
> Also I have no idea how to get temps down from 55°C, DIMMs are under Noctua NH-D15 anyway, can you even do anything?


my fastest/lowest latency was on Z390 with auto RTLs, lol. but I was able to run 400mhz faster 

run it more than once, sometimes I get +/- 3ns just depending on what Windows is doing in the background.

if not, boot into safe mode (without networking) and run the test. if it's significantly/repeatedly faster it's an OS bloat issue.

run the fans on the NH-D15 in the middle and back, should have room for a RAM fan.



menko2 said:


> I finally got the kit 2x16gb 4000mhz [email protected]
> 
> Im staying at 4300mhz because its very hot here in Spain already. I do have still to work the terciaries and rtl iols.
> 
> When i try to change the rtl and iols the bios doesnt boot. i havent found a guide to overclock this values.
> 
> Any help with it?
> 
> View attachment 2512819


what kit is that? F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA?


----------



## musician

The Pook said:


> what kit is that? F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA?


Trident Z RGB
DDR4-4000MHz CL16-16-16-36 1.40V
32GB (2x16GB)


----------



## 7empe

Hey,

For all of you having dual rank Samsung's 2x16GB b-dies (G-SKILL Trident Z RGB 4000 MHz 16-19-19-39), these are settings I am using for months now. Fully stable.










For 4500 MHz with the same timings it requires significantly higher vDIMM of 1.57V, so it's not worth it.

Cheers,
7empe


----------



## The Pook

musician said:


> Trident Z RGB
> DDR4-4000MHz CL16-16-16-36 1.40V
> 32GB (2x16GB)


... is it F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA?


----------



## musician

The Pook said:


> ... is it F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA?


Sure it is.
F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. (gskill.com)


----------



## itssladenlol

4000 c17 royal bin.
Can boot 4700 c16 but with my super tight 4400 c16 there's like 0,1% improvement with anything higher.

4400 15/16/16 is also stable with 1,64v but not worth it


----------



## menko2

The Pook said:


> my fastest/lowest latency was on Z390 with auto RTLs, lol. but I was able to run 400mhz faster
> 
> run it more than once, sometimes I get +/- 3ns just depending on what Windows is doing in the background.
> 
> if not, boot into safe mode (without networking) and run the test. if it's significantly/repeatedly faster it's an OS bloat issue.
> 
> run the fans on the NH-D15 in the middle and back, should have room for a RAM fan.
> 
> 
> 
> what kit is that? F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA?


Yes it's the F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA.

Im having a hard time with the RTL-ios and terciarias 

Any help?


----------



## sixty9sublime

menko2 said:


> Yes it's the F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA.
> 
> Im having a hard time with the RTL-ios and terciarias
> 
> Any help?


Try manually setting 61/63/7/7 or 62/64/8/8. I use the former on a MSI Unify, not sure if an ASUS board will like those values however.


----------



## The Pook

menko2 said:


> Yes it's the F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA.
> 
> Im having a hard time with the RTL-ios and terciarias
> 
> Any help?
> 
> View attachment 2512843


can you even change them? I can't POST if I set them manually, no matter what values I use. 

BTW, you can get the 0902 beta BIOS here.


----------



## Waspinator

Just looking at previous page 4000 16-19-19 1.40V and 4000 17-18-18 1.40V are same bins as 4000 16-16-16 1.40V, so G.Skill is trolling us a little. And even the latter one isn't much better than 3600 14-15-15 1.45V, minus 0.02V on CL16 and CL17 OC, but 4533 isn't even stable and it was on 3600. It's fine actually as I don't want to push 1.40V SA for 4533 anyway, 4400 only needs 1.25V.
I wonder if even 4000 19-19-19 and 3600 16-16-16 are much worse, though they aren't really 100€ cheaper either.

A lot of you are running 4400 16-17-17 1.52-1.54V. I don't think just every kit works 4400 CL16, mine works only 4300 16-16-16 1.52-1.53V, but I don't think I will get it Karhu 10h+ stable, but 4266 probably will be. I don't think upping tRCD/tRP will help as usually tCL is the bottleneck at 16-16-16.
4400 17-17-17 seems to be the easiest to run on these ~350€ kits, main difference from my 4000 and 3600 kits is that first works 4266 CL16, second only 4200 CL16, and second also works 4533 CL18.



asdkj1740 said:


> would like to oc my 16G*2 samsung b die dual rank kit to around 4400~4500mhz on my z590 msi mobo, with 10th gpu.
> tried msi "memory try it" 4266c17 and it works, but the latency is high, almost 50ns.
> tried 4400c17 memory try it, it boots but can be stable tested by tm5 extreme.
> 
> any msi users would like to share the bios settings like timmings of 4400~4500mhz c17 oc??
> thanks.
> 
> i cant even find the memory force bar in bios....


I have Z590 Gaming Carbon and 10900K, so my 4400 17-17-17-36 settings should work for you. They work on both of my kits, 3600 and 4000.
I will post the ASRock timings screen in the afternoon. They're nothing special really, tWR and tCWL are most important for good stability, I have them at 13 and 16. Terciaries are lowest on auto already, I just lowered 15/16/16 to 15/15/15.
As already said, set SA/IO manually, I have them at 1.25/1.20V.
And before setting subtimings, check if just primary timings work, start with 1.52V and go up to 1.55V.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

New daily rig for a while... IO2=1.45V, SA=1.4V.


----------



## Waspinator

I checked the two 4400 16-17-17 screens again, DIMM temps are same as ambient temperature in July. That probably makes them run on CL16?
Anyway, 4400 17-17-17 is no problem to run even on 60°C.


----------



## asdkj1740

this is xmp enable / 4400 / 17-18-18-36-330-65535 / 80 34 34 (xmp: 80 60 60 but tremendous errors).
the rest trimmings are all auto.
tm5 extreme passed.
i would like to reduce the latency to <40ns. what timmings should I try if the current voltages are untouched??
it would be much helpful if msi dragon ball // msi bios screen caps are provided.
thank you!


----------



## 7empe

asdkj1740 said:


> this is xmp enable / 4400 / 17-18-18-36-330-65535 / 80 34 34 (xmp: 80 60 60 but tremendous errors).
> the rest trimmings are all auto.
> tm5 extreme passed.
> i would like to reduce the latency to <40ns. what timmings should I try if the current voltages are untouched??
> it would be much helpful if msi dragon ball // msi bios screen caps are provided.
> thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2512903


RTL/I-OL are much too high and they are affecting your latency. Take a look on my screenshots few posts earlier.


----------



## menko2

7empe said:


> I-OLs are much too high and they are affecting your latency. Take a look on my screenshots few posts earlier.


No matter what i do when I touch trl or iol it won't post in bios.

I won't go above 4300mhz to avoid more voltage. It's hot here now.

F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA

4000mhz [email protected]

Any advice?


----------



## 7empe

menko2 said:


> No matter what i do when I touch trl or iol it won't post in bios.
> 
> I won't go above 4300mhz to avoid more voltage. It's hot here now.
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA
> 
> 4000mhz [email protected]
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> View attachment 2512905


Don’t play with them manually. Probability of guessing the values is very low. Enable RTL training algorithm in BIOS, disable fast boot and reboot. BIOS will learn these values, and if after few reboots you notice correct low values, lock them manually (from Auto).


----------



## 7empe

It may not post immediately, but if other settings are correct you will finally get there with good RTL/I-OL pairs.


----------



## menko2

7empe said:


> Don’t play with them manually. Probability of guessing the values is very low. Enable RTL training algorithm in BIOS, disable fast boot and reboot. BIOS will learn these values, and if after few reboots you notice correct low values, lock them manually (from Auto).


This is what I have been doing.

RTL training enable, fast boot disable.

Maybe if I'm setting then up manually I should disable RTL training?


----------



## 7empe

menko2 said:


> This is what I have been doing.
> 
> RTL training enable, fast boot disable.
> 
> Maybe if I'm setting then up manually I should disable RTL training?


Set them manually only when correct values were picked up during the learning procedure. Then you may lock them. When you have non-auto values the RTL training won’t change them but disabling the algorithm is a right way to go.


----------



## 7empe

Look for values around 62-64 and 7-8 or close (it depends on electric path specification of your particular board sample, signal interference and IMC). If they were set during the learning, lock them.


----------



## asdkj1740

7empe said:


> RTL/I-OL are much too high and they are affecting your latency. Take a look on my screenshots few posts earlier.


which of the following should i change? and what should i type??
thanks.


----------



## 7empe

asdkj1740 said:


> which of the following should i change? and what should i type??
> thanks.
> View attachment 2512906


Initially all you can set is:

IO Compensation Auto -> 21
IOL Init Value Auto -> 4

And try to lower RTL Init Value to e.g. 67.

Boot few times and look at tRTLs and tIOLs. After successful POST, they should be lower. Then you can decrease the RTL Init Value by 1 as long as you POST successfully. After reaching the lowest bootable RTL Init Value, you should also get the lowest possible pairs of tRTL and tIOL. Then change them from Auto to the found values.


----------



## asdkj1740

7empe said:


> Initially all you can set is:
> 
> IO Compensation Auto -> 21
> IOL Init Value Auto -> 4
> 
> And try to lower RTL Init Value to e.g. 67.
> 
> Boot few times and look at tRTLs and tIOLs. After successful POST, they should be lower. Then you can decrease the RTL Init Value by 1 as long as you POST successfully. After reaching the lowest bootable RTL Init Value, you should also get the lowest possible pairs of tRTL and tIOL. Then change them from Auto to the found values.


thanks for the reply!
i tried 63 and 65, both failed. then i tried 67, it posted.
the latency drops from 44.5 to 43.8.


----------



## 7empe

asdkj1740 said:


> thanks for the reply!
> i tried 63 and 65, both failed. then i tried 67, it posted.
> the latency drops from 44.5 to 43.8.


What about RTL init 66? What are your RTLs and IO-Ls now?


----------



## asdkj1740

7empe said:


> What about RTL init 66? What are your RTLs and IO-Ls now?













66 posted too, latency is 43.7


----------



## sixty9sublime

asdkj1740 said:


> which of the following should i change? and what should i type??
> thanks.
> View attachment 2512906


I'm on a Z490 Unify so I have a good understanding of how MSI boards train. Go into the training options menu and enable "Round Trip Latency" and reboot. See if your RTLs train correctly.

If not set Latency Timing Setting Mode to "Fixed", then subtract whatever values from your tIOL to get 7/7. In your case, it would be 13-6 = 7, 12-5=7. Then subtract those values from your tRTL channels. So tRTL CHA 70-6= 64, tRTL CHB 70-5=65. So correct values would be:

21
21
69
69
64
65
4
4
7
7

Then switch the Latency Timing Setting Mode to dynamic and reboot. This is key, if you leave it on fixed it will only set RTL/IO values based on offsets.


----------



## mouacyk

Imprezzion said:


> Wow. I have never seen above 4600 CR1 lol. Incredible.


Me neither. Indeed, great work on 9900K. There must be better luck or physics in Russia, because all of those voltages are quite high


----------



## asdkj1740

sixty9sublime said:


> I'm on a Z490 Unify so I have a good understanding of how MSI boards train. Go into the training options menu and enable "Round Trip Latency" and reboot. See if your RTLs train correctly.
> 
> If not set Latency Timing Setting Mode to "Fixed", then subtract whatever values from your tIOL to get 7/7. In your case, it would be 13-6 = 7, 12-5=7. Then subtract those values from your tRTL channels. So tRTL CHA 70-6= 64, tRTL CHB 70-5=65. So correct values would be:
> 
> 21
> 21
> 69
> 69
> 64
> 65
> 4
> 4
> 7
> 7
> 
> Then switch the Latency Timing Setting Mode to dynamic and reboot. This is key, if you leave it on fixed it will only set RTL/IO values based on offsets.


how to tell it is trained correctly after enabling round trip latency and rebooted?
those numbers you provided you mean leaving RTL Inlt values and IOL Iint values to be auto like below?
thank you!


----------



## sixty9sublime

asdkj1740 said:


> how to tell it is trained correctly after enabling round trip latency and rebooted?
> those numbers you provided you mean leaving RTL Inlt values and IOL Iint values to be auto like below?
> thank you!
> View attachment 2512919


Huh? I just explained what values you're looking for. If your RTLs didn't train similar after enabling round trip latency you'll likely have to manually input the values I suggested, and switch to Dynamic mode.


----------



## nikolaus85

asdkj1740 said:


> how to tell it is trained correctly after enabling round trip latency and rebooted?
> those numbers you provided you mean leaving RTL Inlt values and IOL Iint values to be auto like below?
> thank you!
> View attachment 2512919


hello, i have a z490 unify as well. I'm not an expert, but i can say you have to try the traning till you got trtl/tiol you want. So you have to enable/set to auto/disable the round trip latency till the job is done. Once you got the right trtl and tiol, you can lock them leaving the setting mode to auto and put the right value you got instead of the "auto" value. I telling that because if you leaving them on auto, next time you will load the oc profile you saved they will train in a different way. If you do like i told, they will always traing correctly if you load the oc profile. I hope i helped you.


----------



## Waspinator

asdkj1740 said:


> 66 posted too, latency is 43.7


Are you only looking for AIDA64 best score or 24/7 settings? I have the same board but BIOS V1.20 and on 4400 17-17-17 it boots RTL Init 66/66, but Karhu stable is only default 69/69 or maybe also 68/68, didn't try it.
V1.30 trained very low RTLs/IOLs, 62/64/8/9, but I only noticed it on 16-16-16, that was on 4133 16-16-16. tWTR was 2/9 even if set 1/8 in BIOS (yes, through tWRRD). Same was with terciaries, that's why I went back to V1.20. I didn't know back then that RTLs are more important.

I will try what *sixty9sublime* wrote, looks quite advanced though. But I don't think Z590 Gaming Carbon has Round Trip Latency option, I looked for it before. But asdkj1740 said he enabled it, so it must be there.

Woomack from Overclockers.com already wrote this to me, so I don't think I will bother too much:


> RTL/IOL count mainly for competitive benchmarking. I don't really care about it for anything else. When you have a higher OC motherboard then it usually trains these settings a bit tighter than on cheaper "gaming" series but it's not a rule.



You asdkj1740 need to lower the secondary timings first, look at mine:








tREFI I have Auto as 20000 is not stable for me due to high temp. These settings should be very safe, I'm Karhu 18h+ stable, 40000% coverage.
I see you have F4-3200C14-32GTZKW which is like 100€ cheaper than "top" kits. Interesting it works 4400 17-18-18-36 1.54V, even my single rank 3200 C14 stopped at 4200. My 3600 and 4000 kits need 1.52/1.49V, so not much difference here. Try lower tRCD/tRP to 17, I don't need any more voltage.




menko2 said:


> I won't go above 4300mhz to avoid more voltage. It's hot here now.
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA
> 
> 4000mhz [email protected]


Are you sure you are stable on 4300 16-16-16? I have the same ones, except Royal Gold and I got Karhu stable:
1.52V - error after 3h 4min
1.53V - error after 1h 25min
But it can be because mine are at 55°C. If I can't get it stable by 1.52V I know I can't do anything more about it but to lower frequency one step down. Now I'm testing 4266 1.52V and it's 1 hour stable so far.


----------



## asdkj1740

sixty9sublime said:


> Huh? I just explained what values you're looking for. If your RTLs didn't train similar after enabling round trip latency you'll likely have to manually input the values I suggested, and switch to Dynamic mode.


sorry i know nothing about these.
i tried enabling the round trip latency and rebooted.











then i set fixed mode and typed your suggested numbers, then f10.

i cant set the latency timing setting mode back to dynamic , it wont post, like below, failed then back to bios.










i have to change the mode back to fixed to post.


----------



## Waspinator

F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V
This XMP is a joke, 1.39V errors after 6min in Karhu, and 1.40V is at least 1 hour stable. I have to do an overnight test, but I doubt it is 100% stable on 1.40V.
For this reason alone I always thought every kit has at least 0.03V headroom.
These new 4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V are also on the extreme side. I'm quite sure they wouldn't be stable for me, 1.55V is just too much for dual rank without additional cooling like a fan above DIMMs. Actually single rank with 45°C wasn't any better, so I doubt even a fan would help.
Plus 4000 CL14 is useless for Intel anyway, it's all about CL16/CL17.


----------



## Imprezzion

What I do on my MSI Z490 Ace is RTL Init 67/67 IOL Init 1/1, offset 24/22, rest auto. This gives me 66/66/6/6 on 4400C17 stable as a rock. 
MSI is very picky and basically only posts when you have a good setup and it's best if you select fixed mode for RTL/IO. Do not ever set manual or locked values for CHA D1/R* values, leave on auto. Only change the Inits and Offsets.


----------



## sixty9sublime

asdkj1740 said:


> sorry i know nothing about these.
> i tried enabling the round trip latency and rebooted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then i set fixed mode and typed your suggested numbers, then f10.
> 
> i cant set the latency timing setting mode back to dynamic , it wont post, like below, failed then back to bios.
> 
> 
> 
> i have to change the mode back to fixed to post.


21
21
69
69
64
64
65
65
4
4
7
7
7
7

Manually input those values after a fresh boot everything on auto, Latency Mode set to dynamic, then reboot. See if you can post. If not you'll likely just have to keep rebooting until you see the RTLs train something similar to what I suggested.


----------



## esa1970

My new toys.First attempt.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Waspinator said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V
> This XMP is a joke, 1.39V errors after 6min in Karhu, and 1.40V is at least 1 hour stable. I have to do an overnight test, but I doubt it is 100% stable on 1.40V.
> For this reason alone I always thought every kit has at least 0.03V headroom.
> These new 4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V are also on the extreme side. I'm quite sure they wouldn't be stable for me, 1.55V is just too much for dual rank without additional cooling like a fan above DIMMs. Actually single rank with 45°C wasn't any better, so I doubt even a fan would help.
> Plus 4000 CL14 is useless for Intel anyway, it's all about CL16/CL17.


4000 14-15-15-35 is screened under 1.5V and by using memtest 6.1 (Run memtestPro 4.0).


----------



## Waspinator

Where did they post this? I checked G.Skill site, their forum and Techpowerup news forum.
And they usually post just 100-400% coverage. Plus I don't have any idea how good at finding errors this RunMemtestPro 4.0 is. I think from best to worst are, I also did some minor comparisons myself:
Karhu RAM Test > TestMem5, Extreme1 @anta777 profile > HCI MemTest > Prime95 Large (proved not to be good even for simple voltage stability testing, Karhu needs 0.1-0.2V more)
OCCT, I have no idea. I paid for Karhu anyway and so far it proved to be very good. Latest it found errors is at 11-13 hours (I think tWR and some terciaries, have to check), so I run my final OCs 14-18 hours.

Anyway, I've run Karhu during my work hours on XMP, that will be 10 hours. Even if it's stable it doesn't prove anything. I'm quite sure they test each module for only an hour or 2, so they couldn't have known mine will be 100% stable. I'm not saying 1-2h isn't enough, for me it's unimaginable how they can even test each module, if they even do. But to test it for an hour on 1.40V and give it 1.40V XMP is just dumb. If I test it for an hour, I add +0.1V and it is always at least 24 hours stable. But if I were to make XMPs, I would add at least 0.03V.
I'm quite sure this XMP was made to grab money from users like me who thought it will be stable on 1.37V and it would actually be better than other kits.


----------



## Betroz

Waspinator said:


> Plus 4000 CL14 is useless for Intel anyway, it's all about CL16/CL17.


Why? I can get good results with this :


----------



## robalm

Waspinator said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTRGA 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V
> This XMP is a joke, 1.39V errors after 6min in Karhu, and 1.40V is at least 1 hour stable. I have to do an overnight test, but I doubt it is 100% stable on 1.40V.
> For this reason alone I always thought every kit has at least 0.03V headroom.
> These new 4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V are also on the extreme side. I'm quite sure they wouldn't be stable for me, 1.55V is just too much for dual rank without additional cooling like a fan above DIMMs. Actually single rank with 45°C wasn't any better, so I doubt even a fan would help.
> Plus 4000 CL14 is useless for Intel anyway, it's all about CL16/CL17.


I get fail in anta777 with 4000mhz cl 16, 1.38v and 1.15/1.15v io/sa.
I don't think any one can do 4000mhz cl16 1.35v.
What io/sa voltage did you run?


----------



## Waspinator

Betroz said:


> Why? I can get good results with this :


You mean CL18 vs. 16/17? I was looking at just that the other day, 4400 17-17-17 has a little better write and latency and a little worse read and copy than 4533 18-18-18.
Let's say they're both the same, though it's usually a rule you need to go 200 higher for each 1 CL.
My new 4000 16-16-16 isn't stable on 4533 and 3600 14-15-15 was, but I don't even care as it's a little better on CL16/17. Plus 4533 requires 1.40V instead of 1.25V SA, so it doesn't make much sense to push that much more for same performance.



robalm said:


> I get fail in anta777 with 4000mhz cl 16, 1.38v and 1.15/1.15v io/sa.
> I don't think any one can do 4000mhz cl16 1.35v.
> What io/sa voltage did you run?


For 4000-4133 CL16 I run 1.15/1.15V, for 4200-4300 CL16 1.20/1.20V.
Why, would higher SA/IO mean less VDIMM required? I actually remember reading something about this, but I haven't tested myself if that is true.
I don't think it would make much sense though to run 1.30/1.30V only so you could run VDIMM 0.02V lower.

Yes, fail at 1.38V and I get fail at 1.39V. If I were responsible for making XMPs at G.Skill I would go for 4000 16-16-16-36 1.45V. Same as 3600 14-15-15-35 is stable at 1.38-1.39V, but XMP is 1.45V. This was going on even before with 4000 16-19-19-39, someone confirmed to me it is stable at 1.38V, but I'm sure he didn't test it enough, so 1.39V.
I'm sure they didn't care that much at G.Skill because they know who buyers are for these 350€ kits, guys like us on overclocking forums. And for us XMP stability doesn't really matter. And gamers, but that's similar anyway as most overclockers also game a little and most gamers also OC a little.
I'm not even saying it isn't stable on XMP, but for me this is borderline stability. Mine is 100% stable only with 1.41V.
If 1.40V is not stable 10h, I will post the screen on G.Skill forums.


----------



## Betroz

Waspinator said:


> You mean CL18 vs. 16/17? I was looking at just that the other day, 4400 17-17-17 has a little better write and latency and a little worse read and copy than 4533 18-18-18.
> Let's say they're both the same, though it's usually a rule you need to go 200 higher for each 1 CL.
> My new 4000 16-16-16 isn't stable on 4533 and 3600 14-15-15 was, but I don't even care as it's a little better on CL16/17. Plus 4533 requires 1.40V instead of 1.25V SA, so it doesn't make much sense to push that much more for same performance.


I was under the impression that you thought C16 and C17 are the only ones to aim for. My bad 

My F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB kit does not like straight timings at all, not 16-16-16 or 17-17-17. Even 17-18-18 can be a problem. But they do like 16-17-17 and 18-19-19....go figure


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> I was under the impression that you thought C16 and C17 are the only ones to aim for. My bad
> 
> My F4-4000C17D-32GTRGB kit does not like straight timings at all, not 16-16-16 or 17-17-17. Even 17-18-18 can be a problem. But they do like 16-17-17 and 18-19-19....go figure


Same. My kit is a worse bin, it's early 2019 dated Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN) and I can only run straight at 4400 17-17-17 but that is literally the only straight setup it will do. It cannot do 4000 15-15-15, 4200 16-16-16 or 4533 18-18-18 at all. They all require at least +1 or sometimes even +2 like 4533 which needs 18-20-20, 18-19-19 doesn't work. Also 4400 16-xx-xx is impossible on my kit. I can yeet ALL the volts at it but it just will not do 16 on 4400.. it will however do 15 on 4200 with 1.60v..


----------



## Waspinator

My dual rank kits don't even boot 3700 15-15-15. It might be it's a board problem, but single rank kits worked even 4200. For 4533 I will try 18-20-20, just to cure curiosity.
It's interesting every kit does 4400 17-17-17, even 3600 CL16 and 3200 CL14. And I have trouble getting anything better than this with one of best G.Skill bins at ~360€.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> Also 4400 16-xx-xx is impossible on my kit. I can yeet ALL the volts at it but it just will not do 16 on 4400..


C16 at 4400 speed with 2x16GB is very hard on the IMC of your CPU, so could be that aswell. My 10900K is able to do 4300 16-17-17, but 4400 C16 require WAY too much SA and IO to pass.


----------



## Imprezzion

Since I already need 1.35v SA and 1.25v IO for C-17 I really don't wanna go much higher for daily so I'll just keep it at C17.

It's quite warm here today, about 29c, and I do have my A/C running at 23c but this morning I didn't and with 29c room temp the DIMMs so far haven't gone over 39c yet with some gaming so it seems I have the temps pretty well under control at 1.50v for now. CPU at 5.2 all core 4.6 cache at 1.352v (dynamic / adaptive so it idles down) has max core temps in the low 60's so that seems fine. GPU is a lot worse tho. Even with a EVGA Hybrid FTW3 water block it still hit 61.7c core 80c VRAM Junction and 76.2c hotspot. Oh well, it's well within spec especially bouncing off the power limit continuously at 355w and at +110 core +1400 memory.


----------



## Waspinator

This is how stable 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V XMP really is:








People need to know this is actually a 1.45V kit, otherwise you get too high expectations. 3600 14-15-15 1.45V on other hand could easily be marketed as 1.40V, even this 4000 kit does it with 1.36V.


----------



## bscool

50c+ dim temps are toasty. Not surprised you get errors. I have found much over 40-45c the errors come much easier.


----------



## Waspinator

I know it's toasty, but I got these stable even with all subtimings lowered and even on 57°C:
3600 14-15-15-32 - 1.36V
4000 16-16-16-34 - 1.41V
4200 16-16-16-34 - 1.48V
4266 16-16-16-34 - 1.52V
4400 17-17-17-36 - 1.49V
Except for tREFI, only that one doesn't like high temp, even 20000 is not stable.

Here is even the proof:









So you want to say if I cool these DIMMs to 30°C, they will become stable at 1.40V?
I think G.Skill knows very well not everyone will have some extreme cooling, I even have a 120mm fan pointed at them, so it's certainly not the worst possible cooling.
I always thought they do +0.05V just to avoid RMAs. I could RMA this kit no problem as it doesn't do what it claims.
But I know very well that 4000 CL16 1.40V is hard to run. Best ones maybe do 1.38V, worst ones like mine 1.41V and some semi stability on 1.40V, which I guess for G.Skill is good enough to pass inspection.


----------



## bscool

So your conclusion from buying 1 kit is that all 4000c16-16-16 kits are bad? Not sure of your point?

I have a 4800c18 kit that does not do XMP, so what. Life goes on. I get sharing your experience but it seems like you are on a crusades' against gskill 400c16-16-16 kits. Maybe it is me. Who knows, really who cares  lol why am I posting, Oh I work for Gskill 

I have a 4000c16-16-16 kit also. So if it runs XMP stable then what?

The post I was replying to is now deleted?


----------



## Waspinator

bscool said:


> I have a 4000c16-16-16 kit also. So if it runs XMP stable then what?


If yours also doesn't run XMP stable it already proves G.Skill made a poor decision going with 1.40V. There's actually some people who don't bother to manually set RAM. XMP is intended for those after all.


----------



## Betroz

Waspinator said:


> If yours also doesn't run XMP stable it already proves G.Skill made a poor decision going with 1.40V. There's actually some people who don't bother to manually set RAM. XMP is intended for those after all.


XMP is not guaranteed to work for all hardware configurations. I had some Viper Steel 4400C19 sticks (2x8GB), and they did not boot with just setting XMP on my XI Apex/9900K setup. But I got them stable at 4200C16 though. IMC plays a big role here, and motherboard.


----------



## Waspinator

I had the same Viper, it worked even on 10600K, just needed 1.45/1.30V SA/IO. I don't think it's IMC or mobo that is preventing me to run 4000 CL16 1.40V.
Like I said, G.Skill doesn't test Karhu for 10h, they just test a little RunMemtestPro 4.0 (with same voltage as XMP, not any lower, mind you) and call it a day.
I'm downloading this RunMemtestPro 4.0 right now.


----------



## bscool

Also @Waspinator you are not using XMP if you want to get technical. You are changing the voltages on IO and SA. 1.15 is pretty low for 4000c16-16-16. When I enable XMP it sets them around 1.4-1.45 on z490 Apex. I was going to test XMP but it really doesn't matter if they work at XMP for me and not for you as each kit and system will vary some. And for the $$ I would recommend 3200c14 kits if $$ is an issue. These high end/bin kits are toys/luxury in my opinion.


----------



## Betroz

Waspinator said:


> Like I said, G.Skill doesn't test Karhu for 10h


Who wanna run a memtest for 10H....At that point heat may be the problem. Are you one of those guys who run Prime95 for 24H too?


----------



## itssladenlol

Waspinator said:


> This is how stable 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V XMP really is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People need to know this is actually a 1.45V kit, otherwise you get too high expectations. 3600 14-15-15 1.45V on other hand could easily be marketed as 1.40V, even this 4000 kit does it with 1.36V.


52C dimm temp...
There lie's your Problem.
Xmp is working fine.
B-Die anything over 40+C gets random errors.
50+ is like asking for errors. 
Increasing voltage does increase temp tolerance, thats why you got stable with higher voltage.


----------



## Waspinator

Betroz said:


> Who wanna run a memtest for 10H....At that point heat may be the problem. Are you one of those guys who run Prime95 for 24H too?


It just came from my experience. I didn't thought heat might actually cause errors, but I get your point now. During normal work/gaming they're at 40°C anyway.
These setting errored the latest, all on 4133 CL16:
tWR 10 - error after 8h 42min
tWTR_L 7 - error after 11h 9min
tREFI 20000 - error after 11h 59min
It might be that tWR 10 and tREFI would be stable outside stress testing, but what is the point in stress testing then? I could probably get away with just Prime95 Large stability where I get tWR 9, tCWL 12 and tREFI 65535. But with these settings I just can't be 100% sure, so I just run Karhu until it is error free, even up to 18-24h.

Yes, I actually did set my CPU to be Prime95 stable, 5.0/4.9 GHz 1.25V. But what I did is just 10-40min (depending on temps) and added +0.03V, no need to run 24h to get exact +/-0.01V. That I still intend to test with some not so power hungry stress test to get to 5.1/5.1 GHz, I need to try ASUS RealBench.



itssladenlol said:


> Increasing voltage does increase temp tolerance, thats why you got stable with higher voltage.


I'm happy with this answer.



Betroz said:


> IMC plays a big role here, and motherboard.





bscool said:


> I was going to test XMP but it really doesn't matter if they work at XMP for me and not for you as each kit and system will vary some. And for the $$ I would recommend 3200c14 kits if $$ is an issue. These high end/bin kits are toys/luxury in my opinion.


Actually now that you talk about each system being different I remembered I had to up the voltage by +0.01-0.03V going from Z490 Tomahawk to Z590 Gaming Carbon. Exactly on 4000 16-16-16 I had to up from 1.37V to 1.40V.
I think by now we can agree and conclude and finally end this debate that they should have just gone with 1.45V. I always thought they are so smart to do that just to avoid RMAs and people like me complaining, but I guess not.
I agree that 3200 CL14 and 3600 CL16 are best buys. But I already had experience with them on single rank and 3600 14-15-15 was so much better, practically everything worked, even 4000 14-14-14 was almost stable. I just can't deal with anything but top. It's also true there's not a kit out there that couldn't be better.
But now people posting 4400 CL17 OC with these dual rank kits, it makes me think again:








*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Yes it's the F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA. Im having a hard time with the RTL-ios and terciarias Any help? can you even change them? I can't POST if I set them manually, no matter what values I use. BTW, you can get the 0902 beta BIOS here.




www.overclock.net












*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


how to tell it is trained correctly after enabling round trip latency and rebooted? those numbers you provided you mean leaving RTL Inlt values and IOL Iint values to be auto like below? thank you! Huh? I just explained what values you're looking for. If your RTLs didn't train similar after...




www.overclock.net


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Waspinator said:


> It just came from my experience. I didn't thought heat might actually cause errors, but I get your point now. During normal work/gaming they're at 40°C anyway.
> These setting errored the latest, all on 4133 CL16:
> tWR 10 - error after 8h 42min
> tWTR_L 7 - error after 11h 9min
> tREFI 20000 - error after 11h 59min
> It might be that tWR 10 and tREFI would be stable outside stress testing, but what is the point in stress testing then? I could probably get away with just Prime95 Large stability where I get tWR 9, tCWL 12 and tREFI 65535. But with these settings I just can't be 100% sure, so I just run Karhu until it is error free, even up to 18-24h.
> 
> Yes, I actually did set my CPU to be Prime95 stable, 5.0/4.9 GHz 1.25V. But what I did is just 10-40min (depending on temps) and added +0.03V, no need to run 24h to get exact +/-0.01V. That I still intend to test with some not so power hungry stress test to get to 5.1/5.1 GHz, I need to try ASUS RealBench.
> 
> 
> I'm happy with this answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually now that you talk about each system being different I remembered I had to up the voltage by +0.01-0.03V going from Z490 Tomahawk to Z590 Gaming Carbon. Exactly on 4000 16-16-16 I had to up from 1.37V to 1.40V.
> I think by now we can agree and conclude and finally end this debate that they should have just gone with 1.45V. I always thought they are so smart to do that just to avoid RMAs and people like me complaining, but I guess not.
> I agree that 3200 CL14 and 3600 CL16 are best buys. But I already had experience with them on single rank and 3600 14-15-15 was so much better, practically everything worked, even 4000 14-14-14 was almost stable. I just can't deal with anything but top. It's also true there's not a kit out there that couldn't be better.
> But now people posting 4400 CL17 OC with these dual rank kits, it makes me think again:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> Yes it's the F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA. Im having a hard time with the RTL-ios and terciarias Any help? can you even change them? I can't POST if I set them manually, no matter what values I use. BTW, you can get the 0902 beta BIOS here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> how to tell it is trained correctly after enabling round trip latency and rebooted? those numbers you provided you mean leaving RTL Inlt values and IOL Iint values to be auto like below? thank you! Huh? I just explained what values you're looking for. If your RTLs didn't train similar after...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


XMP is 4000 16-16-16-36 1.4v. You tested 16-16-16-34, maybe have another try with tRAS=36?


----------



## Waspinator

4000 16-19-19-39 1.40V so far 8h stable. And I already tested 4000 20-16-16-40 yesterday - 1.36V. So it might be simply tRFC. Or it's still tCL and just variance due to high heat.
Also board variance does play a role in this, looking at my voltages table, exactly 4000 16-16-16 needed the most added voltage going from Z490 to Z590. On 4400 CL17 which I will run it's the same.
Z490/Z590:
4000 16-16-16-34 - 1.37/1.40V
4000 16-19-19-39 - 1.37/1.38V
4000 16-20-20-40 - 1.37/1.41V
4000 20-16-16-40 - 1.36/1.34V
Plus there's variances in which stress tester you are using and already mentioned temperature. That's why you don't make XMPs like this. I'm sure it was made just to attract customers like me who thought that in the end they actually binned B-Die so good it would work 4000 CL16 1.35V.

*bscool*: It would still be interesting if you try at least 1.35V. If it BSODs or even doesn't boot like for me (you have ASUS board and lower temp?), then it proved all my points so far. In best system it just has to work 1.35V to be stable in all systems at 1.40V.
Then we can end this, I'm sure you all have enough of my whining.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Waspinator
It´s not said that the Bin goes better as XMP say, but the [email protected],4V is no bad bin.
I had 3200Cl14Kit don´t works [email protected],5V over 3600mhz, it need´s CL16-18 to raise up frequency, one Kit does [email protected],5V well but dont boot anything over 4400.
Kit´s which do 4600mhz or more in really stable!! are rare.Boot/training, GSat and memtest stable over a bigger temp Range.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> @Waspinator
> It´s not said that the Bin goes better as XMP say, but the [email protected],4V is no bad bin.
> I had 3200Cl14Kit don´t works [email protected],5V over 3600mhz, it need´s CL16-18 to raise up frequency, one Kit does [email protected],5V well but dont boot anything over 4400.
> Kit´s which do 4600mhz or more in really stable!! are rare.Boot/training, GSat and memtest stable over a bigger temp Range.


This is the big variation in 2x16 Bdie binning is the stable frequency they can achieve. Someone i know bought the 4000C14 2x16GB kit, the kit only boots to 4700 max unlike the 4000C17 2x16 Kit which boots 4800. In terms of voltage the 4000C14 kit needs 1.44V for 4000 15-15 Memtest. My personal kit only boots up to 4600, 4666 boots rarely. Max GSat stable i can achieve is 4400 16-17 1.56V even though i can boot 4600 16-18 too it does not boot cleanly most of the time. I would like to test the 4400C17 kit.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

By 5 Kit´s of 3200CL14 was only 2Kit´s boot 4600, from this 2Kit´s only one do 4600 stable, the other one is more 4400-4500mhz stable.
My Kit can do 4600, there is no matter how the sticks stuck, for 4666 it´s important that the better one in Slot1.
4666 is possible on Auto, max. boot 4770mhz, but for really stable better with "manuel settings", with that i can also do [email protected] 1,54V, 
but my kit is also "only" 4600 allstable the rest is won by settings.

I think that what the kit can do where it´s no matter how the sticks stuck is nearly the really stable frequency out of the box.


----------



## Waspinator

*musician
menko2*
Can you 2 test lowest stable voltage on 4000 16-16-16-36?

EDIT:
It's fine now actually, Karhu 9h+ at XMP 1.40V. I even left SA/IO at Auto 1.25/1.20V as suggested. And that's at 53°C.
For now I don't know why it errored before, could be just temperature problem, could be tRAS problem, could be higher SA/IO makes them more stable. I need to do at least 2 more runs to figure that out.
I also noticed board sets 1.392-1.396V for 1.40V and 1.384-1.388V for 1.39V. So I'm not actually running 1.40V on XMP, but 0.005V less.
On 1.39V it errored after 3min.

I would never run RAM at 1.40V if it errors at 1.39V, I would set it manually at 1.41V.
Even me just playing with RAM for 6 months for a hobby, know that with voltages you need at least 0.05V leeway. VCCIO also in two cases needed one day 1.11V, 2 days later 1.16V and one day 1.15V, one month later 1.11V. So minus points for G.Skill here, they need to do better.
I doubt in factory they only got them stable at 1.40V like me, I guess they had to have better board and better cooling and they made it stable at around 1.38V. It's all just guesses of course, I will never know what was going on here. But basically they screwed up, testing at let's say 1.38V and setting 1.40V XMP.
And we all know no B-Die makes 4000 16-16-16-36 1.35V, so this XMP was a fail from the start. Same goes for 4000 16-19-19-39 and probably also those 1.50V kits. Actually, I was too naive and actually thought they binned B-Die in the end to the absolute limits. Even if they did achieve that, they would be way more than 400€.


----------



## Mtodd256

Currently trying to decide on either of these kits from G Skill:
*F4-4266C16D-32GVK 16-19-19-39 1.50v*
*F4-4266C17D-32GVKB 17-18-18-38 1.50v*
They looked binned very similarly. Any suggestions?

Thanks


----------



## The Pook

Mtodd256 said:


> Currently trying to decide on either of these kits from G Skill:
> *F4-4266C16D-32GVK 16-19-19-39 1.50v*
> *F4-4266C17D-32GVKB 17-18-18-38 1.50v*
> They looked binned very similarly. Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks


I bought F4-4266C17D-32GVKB, should be here tomorrow. I'd definitely go for that over the 16-19 kit. 

Luumi is running the same kit at 4700 18-18-18 1.48v, hoping for equally good luck.

Was looking at F4-4400C17D-32GVKs but figured I'd save a few bucks.


----------



## Waspinator

16-19-19-39 1.50V is harder to run, on other similarly priced kits it needs around 1.51-1.52V. Equivalent 4266 17-18-18-38 should be 1.45V, but I got to 1.44V even with 3600 kit, so even 1.45V would be worse than 16-19.
Always go for lower tCL with B-Die, tRCD/tRP is not hard to make equal or at least +1.
This is all theory of course, I don't know if G.Skill does some weird binning and 17-18 is actually better.
But 20-50€ lower price for 17-18 also suggests it's worse bin.

And 4266 16-19-19-39 1.45V was already one of top bins for single rank, probably similar to 4400 16-19-19-39 1.50V. Surpassed maybe only with 4600-4800 18-22-22 kits.


----------



## Mtodd256

Waspinator said:


> 16-19-19-39 1.50V is harder to run, on other similarly priced kits it needs around 1.52V. Equivalent 4266 17-18-18-38 should be 1.45V, but I got to 1.44V even with 3600 kit, so even 1.45V would be worse than 16-19.
> Always go for lower tCL with B-Die, tRCD/tRP is not hard to make equal or at least +1.
> This is all theory of course, I don't know if G.Skill does some weird binning and 17-18 is actually better.
> But 20-50€ lower price for 17-18 also suggests it's worse bin.
> 
> And 4266 16-19-19-39 1.45V was already one of top bins for single rank, probably similar to 4400 16-19-19-39 1.50V. Surpassed maybe only with 4600-4800 18-22-22 kits.


It looks like the 4266 17-18-18-38 1.50V is on my motherboard QVL. I thought the 4266 16-19-19-39 1.50V could be higher binned but like you said harder to run. I'm leaning more towards 4266 17-18-18-38 since it's more compatible.

Running on a EVGA Z490 Dark MB. Right now can run 16GB F4-4400C16D-16GVK at 4200 15-18-18-35 1T at 1.51V. Will run the 4400 16-19-19-39 XMP profile when I pump up Vccio and vsa initially.

Thinking either of these 4266 kits will OC well all binning aside. I thought tCRD was harder to hit since tCL scales with voltage more or less. Is this not the case?


----------



## asdkj1740

sixty9sublime said:


> 21
> 21
> 69
> 69
> 64
> 64
> 65
> 65
> 4
> 4
> 7
> 7
> 7
> 7
> 
> Manually input those values after a fresh boot everything on auto, Latency Mode set to dynamic, then reboot. See if you can post. If not you'll likely just have to keep rebooting until you see the RTLs train something similar to what I suggested.


i cant get exactly what you suggested. but close enough i think.
64/66/66/66
7/9/8/8

thanks for the tips, i now getting 43ns instead of 44.5ns.
still got miles to go to near 40ns.

i care about gaming. latency seems to play a big role in games.


----------



## The Pook

it arrived! 










won't have much time today to play with it so just at XMP, but not being stuck at 3733 is nice


----------



## sixty9sublime

asdkj1740 said:


> i cant get exactly what you suggested. but close enough i think.
> 64/66/66/66
> 7/9/8/8
> 
> thanks for the tips, i now getting 43ns instead of 44.5ns.
> still got miles to go to near 40ns.
> 
> i care about gaming. latency seems to play a big role in games.


DON'T settle until your RTLs are within 2 and your IOLs within 1. Guarantee it'll be unstable. What frequency are you trying to hit? The 100Mhz block seems harder to stabilize vs frequencies in the 133Mhz block. My board really hates 4200, 4300, 4500 etc. I've found 4133, 4266, 4400 to train almost every time if SA/IO voltages are correct. You may want to try adding more SA/IO for training purposes. Once you get the right values turn off training and you can try and back down the voltages again.


----------



## fray_bentos

sixty9sublime said:


> DON'T settle until your RTLs are within 2 and your IOLs within 1. Guarantee it'll be unstable. What frequency are you trying to hit? The 100Mhz block seems harder to stabilize vs frequencies in the 133Mhz block. My board really hates 4200, 4300, 4500 etc. I've found 4133, 4266, 4400 to train almost every time if SA/IO voltages are correct. You may want to try adding more SA/IO for training purposes. Once you get the right values turn off training and you can try and back down the voltages again.


I've found the opposite, 4200 CL16-16-16 (100 MHz) giving better benchmark scores and especially latency vs 4266 CL 16-16-16 (133 MHz). Both are stable. I haven't gone to the effort of comparing all the trained values for find out exactly why, however. MSI board.


----------



## asdkj1740

sixty9sublime said:


> DON'T settle until your RTLs are within 2 and your IOLs within 1. Guarantee it'll be unstable. What frequency are you trying to hit? The 100Mhz block seems harder to stabilize vs frequencies in the 133Mhz block. My board really hates 4200, 4300, 4500 etc. I've found 4133, 4266, 4400 to train almost every time if SA/IO voltages are correct. You may want to try adding more SA/IO for training purposes. Once you get the right values turn off training and you can try and back down the voltages again.


4400mhz
yeah i feel that too, i like 133.

i am now enabling the round trip latency, and the latency timing setting mode is on auto.
i still not understand your words about keep training. 

the result i got relies on setting init values only: 64/65 & 2/2, the rest are auto on that section.


----------



## Mtodd256

The Pook said:


> it arrived!
> 
> View attachment 2513236
> 
> 
> won't have much time today to play with it so just at XMP, but not being stuck at 3733 is nice


Nice! Looking forward to seeing what kind of numbers you get 🙂


----------



## sixty9sublime

fray_bentos said:


> I've found the opposite, 4200 CL16-16-16 (100 MHz) giving better benchmark scores and especially latency vs 4266 CL 16-16-16 (133 MHz). Both are stable. I haven't gone to the effort of comparing all the trained values for find out exactly why, however. MSI board.


Interesting. Maybe I'll have to test the 100 block a bit more. At 4200C16 my board almost always trains IOLs 8/7. Of course they can be fixed with offsets or manually setting timings but at higher frequencies training is all over the place. I'm also on a 10600k which could explain issues at higher frequencies?

My 4266C16 profile definitely smashes 4200, wonder why we're seeing different results?


----------



## The Pook

menko2 said:


> View attachment 2512843


more questions for you 

what SA voltage are you running for 4300?

was having issues at XMP (4266) with 1.3v, bumped it up to 1.35v and it seems to be happy now but only ~10 minutes into GSAT.

I know people are running much higher but just seems high coming from Coffee Lake, was able to run 4400 at <1.3v.


----------



## fray_bentos

sixty9sublime said:


> Interesting. Maybe I'll have to test the 100 block a bit more. At 4200C16 my board almost always trains IOLs 8/7. Of course they can be fixed with offsets or manually setting timings but at higher frequencies training is all over the place. I'm also on a 10600k which could explain issues at higher frequencies?
> 
> My 4266C16 profile definitely smashes 4200, wonder why we're seeing different results?


I went from 10600K to 10900KF, my 10600K wouldn't run 4200 16-16-16. 4000 15-15-15 was almost stable, so settled on 3900 14-15-15 for the 10600K. At 1.20 V SA and IO with 1.45 V in all cases (I tried 1.25 V SA and IO when seeking for initial overclock limits). 4300 16-16-16 gave near-instant errors in memtest86, while 4400 18-18-18 gave errors in hammer test in memtest86 (temp related?) with those voltages on the 10900KF. 4266 16-16-16 is slower, so that 's why I've settled on 4200 16-16-16. I don't even know what my IOLs are trained as... too far down the rabbit hole for me perhaps. Not sure if 10600K have weaker IMCs on average compared to a 109000K/F, or just random with my samples of one for each!


----------



## shocker94

Hello, i've a strange problem with the z590 apex. My config is 10850k, 3080 and viper ram 4400 cl19 but they train well only with 4200mhz or below. If i put 4266, IOLs differ of 2, but not at every boot. Some boots they train well. Anyone know why? I've tried with 0605 and 0707 bioses.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

@shocker94 are you using 1t? I messed around a little with a 10700k in z590 Apex and it was not very good. I had better results in z490 Apex if using 1t. Anything over 4266 1t was buggy/busted on z590 SR b die.

But other wise 2t with 10th gen I could do 4600+ with SR and DR b die on z590 Apex.


----------



## Ivan B.

Hi, the best configuration for games. DMI voltage is important for better ram settings. I set dmi boot voltage to 1.3v and dmi voltage to 0.9v. It's stable.


----------



## shocker94

bscool said:


> @shocker94 are you using 1t? I messed around a little with a 10700k in z590 Apex and it was not very good. I had better results in z490 Apex if using 1t. Anything over 4266 1t was buggy/busted on z590 SR b die.
> 
> But other wise 2t with 10th gen I could do 4600+ with SR and DR b die on z590 Apex.


I'm using auto value, wich is 2t. Now i leaved all on auto and set the xmp 2 4400 cl19. RTL and IOL are the same and i'm testing now. Before i was using 4266 cl17 17 17 36, wich was stable(maybe) on the z490 strix e.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

@shocker94 maybe try 903 if you haven't? I think that is what I was using when I had the 10700k in Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


----------



## sixty9sublime

fray_bentos said:


> I went from 10600K to 10900KF, my 10600K wouldn't run 4200 16-16-16. 4000 15-15-15 was almost stable, so settled on 3900 14-15-15 for the 10600K. At 1.20 V SA and IO with 1.45 V in all cases (I tried 1.25 V SA and IO when seeking for initial overclock limits). 4300 16-16-16 gave near-instant errors in memtest86, while 4400 18-18-18 gave errors in hammer test in memtest86 (temp related?) with those voltages on the 10900KF. 4266 16-16-16 is slower, so that 's why I've settled on 4200 16-16-16. I don't even know what my IOLs are trained as... too far down the rabbit hole for me perhaps. Not sure if 10600K have weaker IMCs on average compared to a 109000K/F, or just random with my samples of one for each!


Guess I should feel lucky then. Was able to stabilize 4266 C16-16-16 finally on a Unify @ 1.51v, 1.32SA 1.27IO. I'm still working on a 4400 C16-16-16 profile however, ended up having to bump up SA to 1.36 and IO to 1.31, 1.56 vdimm. So far I've had successful 30 min OCCT Memory AVX/SSE runs but stopped testing due to the extreme heat the last few weeks.

Saw some instability on my cool profile, 4133C16, as well due to the heat. Can't run tREFI over 32000 when it's anywhere close to 100F. I swear the walls of this house are made of paper lol


----------



## Waspinator

4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V is actually stable on XMP. But I still wonder, is it common with G.Skill's highly binned kits that even 0.01V less isn't stable?
What I do myself is:
Karhu error in first hour: +0.02V
Karhu error after 1 hour: +0.01V
Of course sometimes +0.01V is enough even if error in first few minutes, like on this XMP. But why risk instability for 0.01V. G.Skill only saw $ when making this XMP, if they went on reliability and good compatibility, they would make it 1.45V.


----------



## YaqY

Waspinator said:


> 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V is actually stable on XMP. But I still wonder, is it common with G.Skill's highly binned kits that even 0.01V less isn't stable?
> What I do myself is:
> Karhu error in first hour: +0.02V
> Karhu error after 1 hour: +0.01V
> Of course sometimes +0.01V is enough even if error in first few minutes, like on this XMP. But why risk instability for 0.01V. G.Skill only saw $ when making this XMP, if they went on reliability and good compatibility, they would make it 1.45V.


You paid for 16-16 1.4V xmp and that xmp is stable at that voltage. They do not have to guarantee that it does lower than xmp voltage, especially on an already tight bin.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

If he is unhappy with the xmp, why he dont buy corsair, there is enough headroom^^.
The Bin is not so good but much headroom to xmp.xd
I think the 4000cl14 bin has also no headroom.


----------



## Imprezzion

A 4x8 Trident-Z 3600C17 b-die kit. Early production date, how far can we push that on a MSI Z490 Unify and a 10900KF? I assume it's SR being 4x8? It is b-die but bottom of the barrel bin.. and I have only done 2x16 DR on MSI so far, anything I should watch out for or change compared to what I would normally do on DR in terms of RTL / ODT / general voltages?


----------



## shocker94

bscool said:


> @shocker94 maybe try 903 if you haven't? I think that is what I was using when I had the 10700k in Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


I've flashed 0903 and i'm trying right now. Which LLC do you recommend? I was using 4.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## The Pook

pretty sure I'm settling with 4133 15-16-16 on this new kit. tried 15-15-15 but I couldn't get it stable with <1.35v SA/1.55v DIMM. 










I'll test longer later when I get the sub timings dialed in, most of them are pretty loose/bad.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> A 4x8 Trident-Z 3600C17 b-die kit. Early production date, how far can we push that on a MSI Z490 Unify and a 10900KF? I assume it's SR being 4x8? It is b-die but bottom of the barrel bin.. and I have only done 2x16 DR on MSI so far, anything I should watch out for or change compared to what I would normally do on DR in terms of RTL / ODT / general voltages?


Don't have experience running 4 sticks but I'm using a 2x8 team group xtreme 4133 C18-18-18 SR kit on the z490 unify using 80 60 40 ODT if that helps at all. Default was 80 0 240 which ran like hot garbage for anything frequency over 4133.


----------



## nikolaus85

sixty9sublime said:


> Don't have experience running 4 sticks but I'm using a 2x8 team group xtreme 4133 C18-18-18 SR kit on the z490 unify using 80 60 40 ODT if that helps at all. Default was 80 0 240 which ran like hot garbage for anything frequency over 4133.


does changing ODT improve ram temps? I got z490 unify and i am stable with 4400 c19 patriot setted to 17-17-17. I still didn't change my ODT.


----------



## sixty9sublime

nikolaus85 said:


> does changing ODT improve ram temps? I got z490 unify and i am stable with 4400 c19 patriot setted to 17-17-17. I still didn't change my ODT.


Yes it could. Setting the right skews might allow you to run the same profile with lower voltage which equates to less heat. FYI, I was able to shave ~.03v off my profiles with my current skew settings. Whether they are the best for my kit or not requires more testing...


----------



## nikolaus85

sixty9sublime said:


> Yes it could. Setting the right skews might allow you to run the same profile with lower voltage which equates to less heat. FYI, I was able to shave ~.03v off my profiles with my current skew settings. Whether they are the best for my kit or not requires more testing...


does changing ODT need a retraining of RTLs and IOLS?


----------



## The Pook

managed to get 4200 working but straight 15s or 4266 errors out almost instantly.










sub timings are still pretty loosey goosey but still playing with it.


----------



## Waspinator

That's just crazy, I was only stable at 4200 CL15 1.54V for 2 hours on single rank. And it was a very good bin, F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB, otherwise stable 4600 17-17-17 1.53V. On dual rank I can't even boot 3700+ CL15.
I will try to get 4300 16-16-16 stable, I guess tRAS 36 instead of 34 helps with stability, at least it did on 4000. But if not, I will just settle on 4400 17-17-17.


----------



## Arlina

Hi, i use micron e-die 3000mhz cl15 cheap ram and tweak this. 7/24 stable. Are there any settings you recommend that I can lower?


----------



## shocker94

These are my timings. PPD is 0. How can i have better latency on aida? 40.8ns seems to high for 4400 CL17 CPU 5ghz cache 4.7. There's something wrong.









Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

shocker94 said:


> These are my timings. PPD is 0. How can i have better latency on aida? 40.8ns seems to high for 4400 CL17 CPU 5ghz cache 4.7. There's something wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


Twr 12
Trrds 6
Trrdl 4
Twtrl 8
Twtrs 4
Tfaw 16


----------



## Waspinator

shocker94 said:


> These are my timings. PPD is 0. How can i have better latency on aida? 40.8ns seems to high for 4400 CL17 CPU 5ghz cache 4.7. There's something wrong.


Look here at my timings:








*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


I know it's toasty, but I got these stable even with all subtimings lowered and even on 57°C: 3600 14-15-15-32 - 1.36V 4000 16-16-16-34 - 1.41V 4200 16-16-16-34 - 1.48V 4266 16-16-16-34 - 1.52V 4400 17-17-17-36 - 1.49V Except for tREFI, only that one doesn't like high temp, even 20000 is not...




www.overclock.net




I don't get 40ns though, only 45ns. Someone said I have to go into safe mode, I still have to try that.


----------



## shocker94

Waspinator said:


> Look here at my timings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> I know it's toasty, but I got these stable even with all subtimings lowered and even on 57°C: 3600 14-15-15-32 - 1.36V 4000 16-16-16-34 - 1.41V 4200 16-16-16-34 - 1.48V 4266 16-16-16-34 - 1.52V 4400 17-17-17-36 - 1.49V Except for tREFI, only that one doesn't like high temp, even 20000 is not...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get 40ns though, only 45ns. Someone said I have to go into safe mode, I still have to try that.


Try to set the "Windows performance plan" to performance mode.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

shocker94 said:


> These are my timings. PPD is 0. How can i have better latency on aida? 40.8ns seems to high for 4400 CL17 CPU 5ghz cache 4.7. There's something wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


tWRRD SG/DG need to come down as well. Try 29/24 or 27/22.


----------



## shocker94

Imprezzion said:


> tWRRD SG/DG need to come down as well. Try 29/24 or 27/22.


I'll try. Thanks.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Waspinator

Starting point would be 30/24 which gives you tWTR 8/2. For me 8/1 is safe and 7/1 tight.


----------



## bscool

@shocker94 max tREFI to 65500+ will help latency and all around performance.


----------



## shocker94

bscool said:


> @shocker94 max tREFI to 65500+ will help latency and all around performance.


Is it safe? I don't have temperature sensor on the ram.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

As safe as tuning any other setting. Run stability test as you normally would for OCing mem.


----------



## sixty9sublime

bscool said:


> As safe as tuning any other setting. Run stability test as you normally would for OCing mem.


Careful with tREFI if you have a powerful GPU and game in the summer with higher ambient temps. I can pass stress tests no problem at max tREFI but while gaming you can FEEL the errors in real-time lol


----------



## bscool

Yeah I don't go by just passing a mem/stress I go by real world use and gaming etc. I take people posting screenshot of a mem test and setting with a grain of salt. I get it is a way to share/compare. But repeated stability over time and months of reboots and varying temps and using different applications is a different thing entirely. You see it time after time someone post stable setting then later comes back there OC is unstable.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Same... Is there a suggested stress testing combo for RAM + GPU heat other than world use?


----------



## The Pook

....the same recommended RAM stability tests along with a GPU benchmark in the background? put Unigine or something on a loop in the background. 

gaming isn't going to heat up your RAM as much as a RAM stability test unless your case airflow is absolute crap, anyway. I get to high 40s in GSAT and barely break 40 when doing anything else, including gaming and rendering.


----------



## fray_bentos

The Pook said:


> ....the same recommended RAM stability tests along with a GPU benchmark in the background? put Unigine or something on a loop in the background.
> 
> gaming isn't going to heat up your RAM as much as a RAM stability test unless your case airflow is absolute crap, anyway. I get to high 40s in GSAT and barely break 40 when doing anything else, including gaming and rendering.


I used to think that when I owned a 1080Ti. Then I purchased an RTX 3080FE... blowing all 300 W of its hot air straight onto my lovely temperature-sensitive B die and crashing games randomly to desktop with RAM temps of around 45 C. I now aim to keep RAM temperatures below 43 C, with an additional fan if needed. I'm also playing it relatively conservative with tREFI by sticking to 15,000 to 32,000.


----------



## sixty9sublime

fray_bentos said:


> I used to think that when I owned a 1080Ti. Then I purchased an RTX 3080FE... blowing all 300 W of its hot air straight onto my lovely temperature-sensitive B die and crashing games randomly to desktop with RAM temps of around 45 C. I now aim to keep RAM temperatures below 43 C, with an additional fan if needed. I'm also playing it relatively conservative with tREFI by sticking to 15,000 to 32,000.


Was just about to chime in and say the same thing. The 3080 FE vents right on the ram sticks, get's quite toasty at high tREFI. Wish I had a temp sensor but I guess I'll just end up having to throw a janky looking fan in there...


----------



## Betroz

Guys just have HWiNFO64 open in the background while gaming, and it will log the minimum, maximum and average RAM temps (and much more!). Btw Battlefield 5 online is a good stresstest for CPU and RAM too


----------



## menko2

Waspinator said:


> I know it's toasty, but I got these stable even with all subtimings lowered and even on 57°C:
> 3600 14-15-15-32 - 1.36V
> 4000 16-16-16-34 - 1.41V
> 4200 16-16-16-34 - 1.48V
> 4266 16-16-16-34 - 1.52V
> 4400 17-17-17-36 - 1.49V
> Except for tREFI, only that one doesn't like high temp, even 20000 is not stable.
> 
> Here is even the proof:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want to say if I cool these DIMMs to 30°C, they will become stable at 1.40V?
> I think G.Skill knows very well not everyone will have some extreme cooling, I even have a 120mm fan pointed at them, so it's certainly not the worst possible cooling.
> I always thought they do +0.05V just to avoid RMAs. I could RMA this kit no problem as it doesn't do what it claims.
> But I know very well that 4000 CL16 1.40V is hard to run. Best ones maybe do 1.38V, worst ones like mine 1.41V and some semi stability on 1.40V, which I guess for G.Skill is good enough to pass inspection.


With my 2.16gb kit b-die g.skill 4000 [email protected] i can get to this.

I cant up more voltage because of the temps in spain. Hot here. 1.5v ram, 1.30v IO, 1.35v SA.

The only problem i have is the IO-Ls. I cant change the values at all. Only works in auto.Fast boot is disable and training on.

Any idea how to solve this?


----------



## menko2

The Pook said:


> more questions for you
> 
> what SA voltage are you running for 4300?
> 
> was having issues at XMP (4266) with 1.3v, bumped it up to 1.35v and it seems to be happy now but only ~10 minutes into GSAT.
> 
> I know people are running much higher but just seems high coming from Coffee Lake, was able to run 4400 at <1.3v.


I jjust answered your questions above about the voltages and one more question to solve about IO-Ls.


----------



## shocker94

I've found the cause of the bad ram training. If i disable MCR fastboot, the training goes wrong. If i leave on auto the training goes fine everytime, even when i change timing and the memory need to be retrained. It seem a bug.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## YaqY

shocker94 said:


> I've found the cause of the bad ram training. If i disable MCR fastboot, the training goes wrong. If i leave on auto the training goes fine everytime, even when i change timing and the memory need to be retrained. It seem a bug.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


If you can't pass every boot with MRC Fastboot disabled it means your settings are not stable.


----------



## shocker94

YaqY said:


> If you can't pass every boot with MRC Fastboot disabled it means your settings are not stable.


With MCR disable, i can pass every boot. But RTL IOLs are too different. They are equal only at 4200mhz. Even xmp setting 4266 cl19 and 4400 cl19 doesn't always train well with MCR disabled.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## asdkj1740

sixty9sublime said:


> DON'T settle until your RTLs are within 2 and your IOLs within 1. Guarantee it'll be unstable. What frequency are you trying to hit? The 100Mhz block seems harder to stabilize vs frequencies in the 133Mhz block. My board really hates 4200, 4300, 4500 etc. I've found 4133, 4266, 4400 to train almost every time if SA/IO voltages are correct. You may want to try adding more SA/IO for training purposes. Once you get the right values turn off training and you can try and back down the voltages again.


indeed it was not fully stable.
after many times of reboot (round trip latency enabled & dynamic mode), i can now only get 66/66 & 9/9 bootable.
it is hard for me to lower from 9/9 to what you suggested (7/7), no matter manually typed tiol 7/7 (init auto) or setting init values started from 1/1 (tiol auto), given round latency is enabled and using dynamic mode, it just wont post at all.
i also tried init 4/4 and tiol 7/7 at the same time, failed for sure...

the current "66/66 & 9/9 bootable" got 42.6ns which is even lower than before (~43ns).


the rest are auto. not yet tried tm5 extreme.


----------



## The Pook

menko2 said:


> I jjust answered your questions above about the voltages and one more question to solve about IO-Ls.


I tried setting them manually and couldn't POST, mine have been on auto while I try to figure out how to get >4200 working. 

starting to think either my CPU lost the IMC silicon lottery or I'm just an idiot


----------



## menko2

The Pook said:


> I tried setting them manually and couldn't POST, mine have been on auto while I try to figure out how to get >4200 working.
> 
> starting to think either my CPU lost the IMC silicon lottery or I'm just an idiot


For me it's a shame because I have all the ram overclock done except the IO-Ls.

No matter what i change the values or setting the system won't boot.

RTLs were fine to tune.

Anyone could help with it?


----------



## YaqY

menko2 said:


> For me it's a shame because I have all the ram overclock done except the IO-Ls.
> 
> No matter what i change the values or setting the system won't boot.
> 
> RTLs were fine to tune.
> 
> Anyone could help with it?
> View attachment 2513575


You need to enable round trip latency in memory training algorithms, if it doesn't post first time give it a retry. When it trains iols 1 max apart then they should be good. Rtls no more than 2 apart. To run tighter rtls and iols you might also need to bump up system agent, especially if it is on the edge.


----------



## menko2

YaqY said:


> You need to enable round trip latency in memory training algorithms, if it doesn't post first time give it a retry. When it trains iols 1 max apart then they should be good. Rtls no more than 2 apart. To run tighter rtls and iols you might also need to bump up system agent, especially if it is on the edge.


Thank you YaqY.

The round trip latency in memory training algorithms are enabled. I tried a few times but no luck.

The RTLs as you can see are i managed to set in 63 both values and it's stable.

But as soon I touch a value in the IO-Ls it won't post. Right now they are 13-12 which are high for what i can see.

I just put up SA voltage from 1.35v to 1.40v but it doesn't change the behavior with IO-Ls.

Any other suggestion comes to your mind?


----------



## YaqY

menko2 said:


> Thank you YaqY.
> 
> The round trip latency in memory training algorithms are enabled. I tried a few times but no luck.
> 
> The RTLs as you can see are i managed to set in 63 both values and it's stable.
> 
> But as soon I touch a value in the IO-Ls it won't post. Right now they are 13-12 which are high for what i can see.
> 
> I just put up SA voltage from 1.35v to 1.40v but it doesn't change the behavior with IO-Ls.
> 
> Any other suggestion comes to your mind?


It might be worth doing a cmos clear and redoing the settings. Have you touched iol init or rtl init? If so leave those auto. Your rtls here look almost tight but the iols seem to not match.


----------



## asdkj1740

YaqY said:


> It might be worth doing a cmos clear and redoing the settings. Have you touched iol init or rtl init? If so leave those auto. Your rtls here look almost tight but the iols seem to not match.


i have the similar problem although mine is not asus mobo.
i can reduce the iol successfully but it seems the rtl would then been messed accordingly.
like i can set iol to be like 5/5 or 7/7, but the rtl would then be changed accordingly from bootable like 66 back to 55 causing oc failure.


----------



## 2500k_2

Hmmm interesting...


----------



## Salve1412

2500k_2 said:


> Hmmm interesting...
> View attachment 2513615


Wow, impressing dual rank frequency for a four-DIMM board! How are you cooling RAM? I'd love to go past my current 4533 CL16 but I can't keep my sticks cool enough as ambient temperatures are escalating by the day.


----------



## KedarWolf

menko2 said:


> Thank you YaqY.
> 
> The round trip latency in memory training algorithms are enabled. I tried a few times but no luck.
> 
> The RTLs as you can see are i managed to set in 63 both values and it's stable.
> 
> But as soon I touch a value in the IO-Ls it won't post. Right now they are 13-12 which are high for what i can see.
> 
> I just put up SA voltage from 1.35v to 1.40v but it doesn't change the behavior with IO-Ls.
> 
> Any other suggestion comes to your mind?


On some boards I've had to lower RAM frequency to say maybe 3333 or lower, boot with RtLs and IOLs on Auto, see what they are at on Auto, they'll be low. Raise or lower your RAM frequency until you get IOLs and RTLs on Auto where you want them at. Then manually set them to what they are on Auto and raise your RAM divider back up to 4400 or what you want it, should boot.

There seems to be a formula as to what works and doesn't and that finds it.


----------



## 2500k_2

Salve1412 said:


> Wow, impressing dual rank frequency for a four-DIMM board! How are you cooling RAM? I'd love to go past my current 4533 CL16 but I can't keep my sticks cool enough as ambient temperatures are escalating by the day.


This is not a 24/7 config. The voltages are too high. This is Just a check 4700 on a 4 dimm board. It's fun. 
The apex has less and less benefits xD 
Cooling - thermaltake cyclo + all fans at max.


Spoiler: ThermalTake Cyclo CL-R0023


----------



## YaqY

2500k_2 said:


> Hmmm interesting...
> View attachment 2513615


This is very nice, but unfortunately lots of performance is lost by the looser tertiary timings ending up slower than say 4500 With Tight Tertiaries like trdrd_sg 6, trdrd_dr 5/6, trdwrs 10-11


----------



## shocker94

I retested all and it was throwing error at 4400 cl19 1.45v. So i put 4266 cl19 1.35v xmp2 and errors again, 4266 xmp1 1.45v cl19 and no error. But, these are the RTLs and IOLs. I've disabled mcr fast boot and enabled mch full check.








Problably faulty motherboard or ram?
Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## 2500k_2

YaqY said:


> This is very nice, but unfortunately lots of performance is lost by the looser tertiary timings ending up slower than say 4500 With Tight Tertiaries like trdrd_sg 6, trdrd_dr 5/6, trdwrs 10-11


I agree with you 100 percent. But it was only 1 trial run. When you start a new frequency for the first time, do you squeeze all the timings as much as possible? or start Gsat right away? The answer is no. I just wanted to show that on a 4 dimm board a frequency of 4700 is possible. Timing settings are certainly important. But it is secondary and depends on temperature, voltages, capabilities of the memory controller, etc.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

The unify i think is the best 4Dimm Z490 Board, you are 100mhz higher as other people has reached.
But allstable in 24/7 it seems to be more difficult to get it stable, at my own i dont have tested but that are the experience from other users, but 4400+ for 24/7 works.
Perhaps with the right settings it´s possible to drive arround 4600 in every case stable.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> For me it's a shame because I have all the ram overclock done except the IO-Ls.
> 
> No matter what i change the values or setting the system won't boot.
> 
> RTLs were fine to tune.
> 
> Anyone could help with it?
> View attachment 2513575


Don't use iol-offsets then you should be able to change iols.


----------



## Deonzy

Hello boys n girls.

Is there anyone here that play warzone? I got the 
G.skill tridentz rgb 2x8 _F4-4400C16D-16GTZR. 4400 mhz cl 16-19-19-39.

*Whatever setting I do, however I change the timings, etc. do mem test no worries, but then I play warzone and get fatal errors.
I'm starting to get crazy! xD. Kinda new to the memory overclocking part aswell. cpu and gpu I know like the back of my hand, but memory I'm kinda new to.*_


----------



## The Pook

Deonzy said:


> Hello boys n girls.
> 
> Is there anyone here that play warzone? I got the
> G.skill tridentz rgb 2x8 _F4-4400C16D-16GTZR. 4400 mhz cl 16-19-19-39.
> 
> *Whatever setting I do, however I change the timings, etc. do mem test no worries, but then I play warzone and get fatal errors.
> I'm starting to get crazy! xD. Kinda new to the memory overclocking part aswell. cpu and gpu I know like the back of my hand, but memory I'm kinda new to.*_


how long are you running your RAM tests and what test are you running?

and what GPU/RAM temps when stress testing vs gaming? since apparently it matters on the new GPUs with them venting upwards.



fray_bentos said:


> I used to think that when I owned a 1080Ti. Then I purchased an RTX 3080FE... blowing all 300 W of its hot air straight onto my lovely temperature-sensitive B die and crashing games randomly to desktop with RAM temps of around 45 C. I now aim to keep RAM temperatures below 43 C, with an additional fan if needed. I'm also playing it relatively conservative with tREFI by sticking to 15,000 to 32,000.


----------



## Deonzy

Deonzy said:


> Hello boys n girls.
> 
> Is there anyone here that play warzone? I got the
> G.skill tridentz rgb 2x8 _F4-4400C16D-16GTZR. 4400 mhz cl 16-19-19-39.
> 
> *Whatever setting I do, however I change the timings, etc. do mem test no worries, but then I play warzone and get fatal errors.
> I'm starting to get crazy! xD. Kinda new to the memory overclocking part aswell. cpu and gpu I know like the back of my hand, but memory I'm kinda new to.*_


Obviously xmp and whatever default settings works perfectly fine, but I kinda want to get as tight timings as possible and low latency for the most fps gains in warzone.


----------



## fray_bentos

The Pook said:


> how long are you running your RAM tests and what test are you running?
> 
> and what GPU/RAM temps when stress testing vs gaming? since apparently it matters on the new GPUs with them venting upwards.


Fairly light testing to be fair, just memtest86 and OCCT AVX, ~2 hours each. However, I never had any issues for several months with the same settings until I upgraded GPU. Crashes only happened when temps hit ~43-45 C, so I may have been borderline un/stable and temperatures just pushed that over the edge. The other thing that I considered was that the 3080 removed bottlenecks enough and lifted framerates enough that it also gave the memory a harder workout. The dedicated memory tests never put RAM over 40 C if I recall correctly, but gaming without a fan hit 45+ C after only 30 mins of gaming (275-300 W at 70 C, though I have extra Noctua fans on my FE, the GPU would probably be 75-80 C without the extra fans). I appear stable now with a (silent) fan over the RAM, plus a sheet of A4 paper ducting hot air from my 3080 directly to the back of the case so that it doesn't blow onto the RAM. I have also changed CPU since then (10600K to 10900KF) and pushed up to 4200 16-16-16-38 (from previous 3900 14-15-15-33) both at 1.45 V as the new CPU has a better IMC (1.20 V SA and IO for both CPUs). I'm too lazy to remove the fan/paper to see if any crashes come back at higher temps when gaming because for now it is a case of "if it aint broke"... I also don't want to risk corrupting any files for the sake of "science". Touch wood, I have avoided that so far by making sure the first boot after any memory OC change is from my memtest86 USB.


----------



## fray_bentos

Deonzy said:


> Obviously xmp and whatever default settings works perfectly fine, but I kinda want to get as tight timings as possible and low latency for the most fps gains in warzone.


My money would be on your RAM being too hot. See comments above. Run HWiNFO in the background whilst gaming to monitor RAM temperatures, and look at the temperature when errors appear. Then, put a fan over your RAM, check the temps and see if crashes become less regular. If they do then you need the fan, and/or to reduce frequency/voltages. If that doesn't work then it will be your timings, and you'll need someone else's advice on that!


----------



## The Pook

fray_bentos said:


> Fairly light testing to be fair, just memtest86 and OCCT AVX, ~2 hours each. However, I never had any issues for several months with the same settings until I upgraded GPU. Crashes only happened when temps hit ~43-45 C, so I may have been borderline un/stable and temperatures just pushed that over the edge. The other thing that I considered was that the 3080 removed bottlenecks enough and lifted framerates enough that it also gave the memory a harder workout. The dedicated memory tests never put RAM over 40 C if I recall correctly, but gaming without a fan hit 45+ C after only 30 mins of gaming (275-300 W at 70 C, though I have extra Noctua fans on my FE, the GPU would probably be 75-80 C without the extra fans). I appear stable now with a (silent) fan over the RAM, plus a sheet of A4 paper ducting hot air from my 3080 directly to the back of the case so that it doesn't blow onto the RAM. I have also changed CPU since then (10600K to 10900KF) and pushed up to 4200 16-16-16-38 (from previous 3900 14-15-15-33) both at 1.45 V as the new CPU has a better IMC (1.20 V SA and IO for both CPUs). I'm too lazy to remove the fan/paper to see if any crashes come back at higher temps when gaming because for now it is a case of "if it aint broke"... I also don't want to risk corrupting any files for the sake of "science". Touch wood, I have avoided that so far by making sure the first boot after any memory OC change is from my memtest86 USB.


my bad, edited my post but I just quoted you because of @Deonzy 's problem, wasn't really questioning you 

figured he might have a similar issue depending on his GPU since I'm apparently oblivious with my dinosaur GPU


----------



## fray_bentos

The Pook said:


> my bad, edited my post but I just quoted you because of @Deonzy 's problem, wasn't really questioning you
> 
> figured he might have a similar issue depending on his GPU since I'm apparently oblivious with my dinosaur GPU


Oh well, the information is out there now for the interested nerdy masses (the dozen or so people who might read it) hahah


----------



## Deonzy

I'm running a i9-10900k with a 3090. :[ Guessing the hot air from the gpu is not really helping. ^^ Still pretty OK temps on gpu and cpu, a good case and 6 fans. But the frickin ram oc is something I'm too new at. Is there anyone bored enough to help a little with it anytime?


----------



## bscool

@Deonzy

@fray_bentos gave you a good tip. Run Hwinfo while gaming and look at temps of your RAM. If they are getting in the 45c+ range that is getting up there and you might need to put a fan directly on them. Download the portable version if you don't have it already HWiNFO

Also post all your system info you really want help. You need to post screen shots of voltages and timings etc.


----------



## morph.

Deonzy said:


> I'm running a i9-10900k with a 3090. :[ Guessing the hot air from the gpu is not really helping. ^^ Still pretty OK temps on gpu and cpu, a good case and 6 fans. But the frickin ram oc is something I'm too new at. Is there anyone bored enough to help a little with it anytime?


10900k is your problem not your ram here.

10th gen especially the i9 range just struggles with stability with various games such as WZ. I had this issue with my 10850k switched it out to a 11900k all stability problems gone. The problems are generally attributed to whea/parity/L0 cache issues


----------



## itssladenlol

morph. said:


> 10900k is your problem not your ram here.
> 
> 10th gen especially the i9 range just struggles with stability with various games such as WZ. I had this issue with my 10850k switched it out to a 11900k all stability problems gone. The problems are generally attributed to whea/parity/L0 cache issues


Biggest crap ive heard since months 😂


----------



## morph.

itssladenlol said:


> Biggest crap ive heard since months 😂


Perhaps you should educate yourself then. Maximus 13 and Rocket Lake: The Rules have Changed. is a good reference, plenty of threads in this forum relating to those issues too. And those errors I've experienced 100%.


----------



## sixty9sublime

morph. said:


> Perhaps you should educate yourself then. Maximus 13 and Rocket Lake: The Rules have Changed. is a good reference, plenty of threads in this forum relating to those issues too. And those errors I've experienced 100%.


OP asked for help regarding memory overclocking... You really came out of left field with this one buddy. Move along and enjoy your 11th gen intel lul


----------



## morph.

sixty9sublime said:


> OP asked for help regarding memory overclocking... You really came out of left field with this one buddy. Move along and enjoy your 11th gen intel lul


I was actually responding to the OP, but to my detriment clicked reply to the wrong post:










This is no way me bashing 10th gen, I'm just relaying information and my experience as I spent the good part of 6 months trying to get my 10850k to be stable in warzone, even with completely bog stock settings to no luck as time and time again it would get the intermittent bsods/crashes. Even though it was rock stable with stress test/stability benchmarks etc. It was a marvelous CPU and performed great outside of those various games I played that had the issues so for my use case it just wasn't good enough.










I've now been on the 11900k now for 3 months with the exact same hardware (mother board,ram,gpu) bar the CPU with 0 stability issues in warzone. And this is with my overclocked CPU and RAM that's tightened.


----------



## 2500k_2

morph. said:


> I was actually responding to the OP, but to my detriment clicked reply to the wrong post:
> 
> View attachment 2513760
> 
> 
> This is no way me bashing 10th gen, I'm just relaying information and my experience as I spent the good part of 6 months trying to get my 10850k to be stable in warzone, even with completely bog stock settings to no luck as time and time again it would get the intermittent bsods/crashes. Even though it was rock stable with stress test/stability benchmarks etc.
> 
> I've been on the 11900k now for 3 months with the exact same hardware (mother board,ram,gpu) bar the CPU with 0 stability issues in warzone. And this is with my overclocked CPU and RAM that's tightened.


Have you tried just disabling HT on your 10850k?


----------



## morph.

2500k_2 said:


> Have you tried just disabling HT on your 10850k?


Yep disabling HT helped to a degree, with it disabled the occurrence was less but the instability/crashes still occurred just less frequently.


----------



## itssladenlol

morph. said:


> Perhaps you should educate yourself then. Maximus 13 and Rocket Lake: The Rules have Changed. is a good reference, plenty of threads in this forum relating to those issues too. And those errors I've experienced 100%.


I had like 15 10900k/kf here, all running with memory in the 4400/4666 c16/c17 Range with high core/cache overclocks. 
Some delid, some direct die. 
I Play warzone/pubg among other games and havent had a single Crash. 

Maybe the imc of your 10850k was just trash, its well known that the 10850k is trash bin and Sorted out garbage that didnt Meet the 10900k reqs.


----------



## morph.

itssladenlol said:


> I had like 15 10900k/kf here, all running with memory in the 4400/4666 c16/c17 Range with high core/cache overclocks.
> Some delid, some direct die.
> I Play warzone/pubg among other games and havent had a single Crash.
> 
> Maybe the imc of your 10850k was just trash, its well known that the 10850k is trash bin and Sorted out garbage that didnt Meet the 10900k reqs.


It's possible, but I wasn't the only person having these issue and it's not only 10850ks it impacted 10900k's, 9900k's as well. It's been documented. The SP on my 10850k was 80 if I recall correctly so if anything it wasn't too horribly binned. 

With warzone it won't happen straight away usually every couple of days after 3-4 hours of continuous warzone and working on the machine for work prior during the whole day beforehand without a hitch.

Mine managed to run stability tests fine at 5.2ghz locked all cores with moderate timings at 4400c17 49x uncore ratio and benchmarked extremely well as per my previous post:


----------



## fray_bentos

morph. said:


> It's possible, but I wasn't the only person having these issue and it's not only 10850ks it impacted 10900k's, 9900k's as well. It's been documented. The SP on my 10850k was 80 if I recall correctly so if anything it wasn't too horribly binned.
> 
> With warzone it won't happen straight away usually every couple of days after 3-4 hours of continuous warzone and working on the machine for work prior during the whole day beforehand without a hitch.
> 
> Mine managed to run stability tests fine at 5.2ghz locked all cores with moderate timings at 4400c17 49x uncore ratio and benchmarked extremely well as per my previous post:
> 
> View attachment 2513765


Your screenshot shows that your RAM temps were hiting 50 C (due to 1.486 Vdimm); there's your problem. Also consistent with only crashing in games and not "stress" tests where temps stay lower. The random type of crash is also consistent with this as errors would occur at random memory address leading to errors/crashes of differing severity. This also explains why you hit issues with CPU at stock settings; the RAM wasn't stock and was at least XMP, likely with higher volts and getting warm during gaming.

Reports do indicate that 11900K is a simpler overclocking situation (if you have any headroom) as borderline unstable OCs are gone; it's either crash or no crash.


----------



## morph.

fray_bentos said:


> Your screenshot shows that your RAM temps were hiting 50 C; there's your problem. Also consistent with only crashing in games and not "stress" tests where temps stay lower. The random type of crash is also consistent with this as errors would occur at random memory address leading to errors/crashes of differing severity. This also explains why you hit issues with CPU at stock settings; the RAM wasn't stock and was at least XMP, likely with higher volts and getting warm during gaming.


Perhaps but I've kept an eye on it in-game and it was only around 45 degrees (in that moderate overclocked setting I posted above). The 50 deg max was stress-testing the ram with mem test and turned out okay.

Also I previously mentioned over the 6 months of me trying to find stability in my system for WZ, I had the ram unturned, cpu on default, RAM on XMP enabled where temps were much cooler (sub 40), I've genuinely ruled out most the potential variables and it still happened admittedly not as frequently when the dialled in the oc but when ocd it was definitely more frequent.


----------



## fray_bentos

morph. said:


> Perhaps but I've kept an eye on it in-game and it was only around 45 degrees. The 50 degmax was stress-testing the ram with mem test and turned out okay.


Yes, I've seen RAM instability in gaming at 43 C for borderline stable OCs, stuff like crashing to desktop. Dropping frequency by 100 MHz gave improved temperature tolerance and moved me out of the borderline unstable zone.

I only do quick RAM stress tests these days (1 - 2 hours) enough to avoid things like OS corruption; real-life gaming provides a better and realistic test of stability (and is more fun). If an OC isn't gaming stable, then the PC isn't stable.

I am aware of the comet lake parity errors issue, which is a different thing, but even that can be solved by lowering cache ratio, lifting Vcore, limiting numbers of cores in certain applications. i.e. not truly stable overclocks. This was worked around by a recode in Warzone (or was it Apex Legends), but still there in Ghostrunner and Minecraft Java unless threads limited.


----------



## morph.

fray_bentos said:


> Yes, I've seen RAM instability in gaming at 43 C for borderline stable OCs, stuff like crashing to desktop. Dropping frequency by 100 MHz gave improved temperature tolerance and moved me out of the borderline unstable zone.


Fair enough but I did dial everything down even to stock clocks and just xmp, the problem still persisted...


----------



## fray_bentos

morph. said:


> Fair enough but I did dial everything down even to stock clocks and just xmp, the problem still persisted...


Indeed, "just XMP" = high Vdimm on high-end kits = high RAM temps.


----------



## Astral85

Anyone have any tips for getting tRAS stable? I have 17-18-(38) 3866Mhz, 1.40v. Can't seem to get tRAS 37 stable. Haven't done any secondary/tertiary tweaks yet, trying to get the primaries stable.


----------



## YaqY

morph. said:


> 10900k is your problem not your ram here.
> 
> 10th gen especially the i9 range just struggles with stability with various games such as WZ. I had this issue with my 10850k switched it out to a 11900k all stability problems gone. The problems are generally attributed to whea/parity/L0 cache issues


Lol no? I have many friends who run 10900k's overclocked heavily with memory and 0 crashes in warzone. If you are crashing you aren't stress testing properly.


----------



## esa1970

My final result.No big difference my old memory.This is Tm5 extreme stable,old is not.


----------



## Salve1412

esa1970 said:


> My final result.No big difference my old memory.This is Tm5 extreme stable,old is not.
> View attachment 2513790
> 
> View attachment 2513791


Which kit do you have? You could try to reduce tWRRD_sg to 30 or 28 (tWTR_L will drop to 8 or 6 accordingly), tRFC to 308-320 (I can set it at 288, but it depends on sticks' quality), tWR to 12 and tRTP to 6. Those were my values for 4400, but I needed only 1.485 VDIMM.


----------



## esa1970

Yes,i can reduce those settings.But theese is the best compination for me.All read,write,copy and latency as good as.My latency is always litle too big.


----------



## robalm

Can you b-die guys run 3200mhz cl 13 at 1.35v?


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> Can you b-die guys run 3200mhz cl 13 at 1.35v?


Never tried but I'm willing to test it? What kind of test (stress test?) would you like to see if it even boots windows on my kit?


----------



## robalm

Imprezzion said:


> Never tried but I'm willing to test it? What kind of test (stress test?) would you like to see if it even boots windows on my kit?


I tested it for fun myself. Ye if you can run Aida64 that whould be fun to see


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> I tested it for fun myself. Ye if you can run Aida64 that whould be fun to see


It won't run it with 1N / 1T whatever you wanna call it. 2N is fine tho at straight 13's with 28 tRAS 280 tRFC. It's very forgiving at this frequency in terms of secondary and tertiary timings. It pretty much POSTs whatever I throw at it lol. Imma run some AIDA and upload a screenie once it stops giving me a IRQL BSOD during AIDA from some random way too tight tertiary probably.

EDIT: Hmm it ain't happy with it. It POSTs and boots fine but keeps IRQL BSODing in AIDA. It ain't very stable lol. Even with loose tertiary timings. I think it would work at like 1.38v but 1.35v is too little for the poor thing. It especially hates tight tWRRD/tWTR lol. Had to push as high as 11/12 on tWRRD to keep it stable long enough to run AIDA. It crashed when making a screenshot tho. It was 49800 read 49200 write 49600 copy 43.5ns latency.


----------



## The Pook

progress ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## robalm

Imprezzion said:


> It won't run it with 1N / 1T whatever you wanna call it. 2N is fine tho at straight 13's with 28 tRAS 280 tRFC. It's very forgiving at this frequency in terms of secondary and tertiary timings. It pretty much POSTs whatever I throw at it lol. Imma run some AIDA and upload a screenie once it stops giving me a IRQL BSOD during AIDA from some random way too tight tertiary probably.
> 
> EDIT: Hmm it ain't happy with it. It POSTs and boots fine but keeps IRQL BSODing in AIDA. It ain't very stable lol. Even with loose tertiary timings. I think it would work at like 1.38v but 1.35v is too little for the poor thing. It especially hates tight tWRRD/tWTR lol. Had to push as high as 11/12 on tWRRD to keep it stable long enough to run AIDA. It crashed when making a screenshot tho. It was 49800 read 49200 write 49600 copy 43.5ns latency.


My kit and motherboard hate 1t, can't even get 1t running at XMP (pc won't even boot).
My old kit (same flare x) did 1t to 3400mhz.
And my old kit was running good with lower TRCD, but my new kit hate it.
Here is some quick settings and score from me.


----------



## Deonzy

morph. said:


> 10900k is your problem not your ram here.
> 
> 10th gen especially the i9 range just struggles with stability with various games such as WZ. I had this issue with my 10850k switched it out to a 11900k all stability problems gone. The problems are generally attributed to whea/parity/L0 cache issues


well, cpu wise I've never EVER crashed in a game of WZ, even at 5.3GHZ core, 5.0 cache. And OC on my 3090. But now I bought a bdie ram kit, wanted to push for more fps so I can stick with this cpu until I see what AMD and Intel brings to the table next before upgrading again. I just put a 40 mm fan in front of my ram sticks and that surprisingly helped ALOT with temps, lmao. I am kinda surprised ngl, its just a 40 mm fan and it made such a huge difference in temps. I got a case with good airflow but somehow before this fan I had 45+ on my rams, could crank up to 50+ and it instantly crashed in a game of wz. now I'm going to play around and try to find a stable and good OC on my _F4-4400C16D-16GTZR. _


----------



## Deonzy

I gotta say tho, having a fan in front of my rams looks disgusting. Ruined my beautiful lian li build


----------



## Astral85

What affects L2 Cache on Intel CPU's? My L2 Cache seems slow for 10900K.

Edit: CPU core frequency I think.


----------



## fray_bentos

Deonzy said:


> well, cpu wise I've never EVER crashed in a game of WZ, even at 5.3GHZ core, 5.0 cache. And OC on my 3090. But now I bought a bdie ram kit, wanted to push for more fps so I can stick with this cpu until I see what AMD and Intel brings to the table next before upgrading again. I just put a 40 mm fan in front of my ram sticks and that surprisingly helped ALOT with temps, lmao. I am kinda surprised ngl, its just a 40 mm fan and it made such a huge difference in temps. I got a case with good airflow but somehow before this fan I had 45+ on my rams, could crank up to 50+ and it instantly crashed in a game of wz. now I'm going to play around and try to find a stable and good OC on my _F4-4400C16D-16GTZR. _


Happy to hear that the fan cooling the RAM did the trick!


----------



## Betroz

Deonzy said:


> I gotta say tho, having a fan in front of my rams looks disgusting. Ruined my beautiful lian li build


A fan blowing on the RAM is almost a must if you run anything higher than 1.45 VDIMM through them, in my experience anyways. I run 4500C18 and 1.55v (2x16gb), so I have a 140mm fan directly above the RAM sticks and that works out really well - but yeah it kinda ruins the look of the build when you have a glass door in the case.


----------



## Astral85

Is anyone using Memtest86 for stability testing? How many Memtest 86 passes are considered stable?


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> Is anyone using Memtest86 for stability testing? How many Memtest 86 passes are considered stable?


I do four passes of memtest86 after any new RAM OC, but only to check for basic stability, i.e. avoiding OS corruption. I've found gaming to be the best (and most realistic) stress test for my own usage. Given all the reports here of being "stress test stable" but then still crashing in games (i.e. not actually stable) I am going to stick with such an approach.

For me, memory-related crashes in games tend to be a freeze with audio loop (0.5 seconds of audio looped), or less commonly crash to desktop. I've seen such types of memory crashes (confirmed/solved by lowering RAM freq) in the both DDR3 and DDR4 eras.


----------



## Waspinator

Which is better for gaming, 4266 CL16 or 4400 CL17?
AIDA64:
4266 CL16 - 63082 / 65297 / 61206 / 44.9ns
4400 CL17 - 63324 / 67220 / 61523 / 45.3ns


----------



## fray_bentos

Waspinator said:


> Which is better for gaming, 4266 CL16 or 4400 CL17?
> AIDA64:
> 4266 CL16 - 63082 / 65297 / 61206 / 44.9ns
> 4400 CL17 - 63324 / 67220 / 61523 / 45.3ns


Neither, I expect gaming benchmarks will show that they perform the same within error (multiple runs needed). Personally, I'd take the lowest frequency option, which should work with lower SA/IO voltages, possibly lower Vdimm.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Waspinator said:


> Which is better for gaming, 4266 CL16 or 4400 CL17?
> AIDA64:
> 4266 CL16 - 63082 / 65297 / 61206 / 44.9ns
> 4400 CL17 - 63324 / 67220 / 61523 / 45.3ns


4266/16=266.6
4400/17=258.8

So 4266c16 better


----------



## Astral85

fray_bentos said:


> I do four passes of memtest86 after any new RAM OC, but only to check for basic stability, i.e. avoiding OS corruption. I've found gaming to be the best (and most realistic) stress test for my own usage. Given all the reports here of being "stress test stable" but then still crashing in games (i.e. not actually stable) I am going to stick with such an approach.
> 
> For me, memory-related crashes in games tend to be a freeze with audio loop (0.5 seconds of audio looped), or less commonly crash to desktop. I've seen such types of memory crashes (confirmed/solved by lowering RAM freq) in the both DDR3 and DDR4 eras.


4 passes is the complete test correct? So any errors in Memtest86 is a fail for you?


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> 4 passes is the complete test correct? So any errors in Memtest86 is a fail for you?


Complete tests, four passes (default setting) and ANY errors, even one = definite fail. Primarily because more taxing situations (e.g. higher temps during gaming) would make any errors even more likely. Note, I am sure there are people who have seen errors after a greater number of passes e.g. 8th pass out of 8, and suspect that would again be related to DIMM temps. One limitation of memtest86 is that it doesn't report DIMM temps, and because it runs in its own shell, there is no chance to run other monitoring software. However, it means that you can avoid booting into Windows if you boot memtest from USB straight after changing settings. This means that there zero risk of corrupting Windows during loading due to a bad OC or mistyped number. I recommend putting boot from USB as the first autoboot option for this reason.


----------



## Waspinator

fray_bentos said:


> Neither, I expect gaming benchmarks will show that they perform the same within error (multiple runs needed). Personally, I'd take the lowest frequency option, which should work with lower SA/IO voltages, possibly lower Vdimm.


Not much difference in SA/IO, 4266 C16 1.20/1.20V, 4400 C17 1.25/1.20V, VDIMM 1.52V and 1.49V.
As OLDFATSHEEP said, 4266 C16 should be better, it needs more voltage after all.


----------



## fray_bentos

Waspinator said:


> Not much difference in SA/IO, 4266 C16 1.20/1.20V, 4400 C17 1.25/1.20V, VDIMM 1.52V and 1.49V.
> As OLDFATSHEEP said, 4266 C16 should be better, it needs more voltage after all.


Well, now you are showing Vdimm, I'd take the 4400 1.49 V option!


----------



## Astral85

fray_bentos said:


> Complete tests, four passes (default setting) and ANY errors, even one = definite fail. Primarily because more taxing situations (e.g. higher temps during gaming) would make any errors even more likely. Note, I am sure there are people who have seen errors after a greater number of passes e.g. 8th pass out of 8, and suspect that would again be related to DIMM temps. One limitation of memtest86 is that it doesn't report DIMM temps, and because it runs in its own shell, there is no chance to run other monitoring software. However, it means that you can avoid booting into Windows if you boot memtest from USB straight after changing settings. This means that there zero risk of corrupting Windows during loading due to a bad OC or mistyped number. I recommend putting boot from USB as the first autoboot option for this reason.


Some of the new Z590 mobo's have Memtest86 built into the UFEI BIOS, my Maximus XIII Hero does for example. It also reports DIMM temps during testing... I see up to around 64C max and that is far hotter than they ever get under gaming load...

So is Memtest86's main purpose to detect stability issues that could corrupt Windows and not an actual memory stress test?


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> Some of the new Z590 mobo's have Memtest86 built into the UFEI BIOS, my Maximus XIII Hero does for example. It also reports DIMM temps during testing... I see up to around 64C max and that is far hotter than they ever get under gaming load...
> 
> So is Memtest86's main purpose to detect stability issues that could corrupt Windows and not an actual memory stress test?


That's a great bios feature! Memtest86 can show as stable, but then when gaming not, that's my experience. Clearly others have benefitted from fans on their RAM too. However, I have no idea what my RAM temps are during testing in memtest. I do know that the OCCT RAM test in Windows definitely heats my RAM less than 300 W aircooled gaming (even that would only ever max at 45 to 50 C or so without a fan). I have only ever set 1.45 Vdimm, I assume with such high temps in your case you are using even higher than that (my ambient temperature is almost never over 22 C, Scotland). Perhaps temps aren't the only aspect, and memtest86 isn't any good for anything other than a basic stability test.


----------



## Deonzy

Gyazo







gyazo.com





I'm getting error in 2 and 14 on tm5 1usmus_v3. Anyone know what it could be?

1.31 vccio, 1.34 vccsa and 1.525 vdimm. Temp not too high.


----------



## Betroz

Deonzy said:


> Gyazo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gyazo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting error in 2 and 14 on tm5 1usmus_v3. Anyone know what it could be?
> 
> 1.31 vccio, 1.34 vccsa and 1.525 vdimm. Temp not too high.


You probably need more IO and SA for that. Maybe bump VDIMM to 1.55v aswell.


----------



## Waspinator

I finally know how to get sub 40ns.
4000 16-16-16-36 XMP - 48.4 ns

4266 16-16-16-34
Auto subs - 46.9 ns
all subs tightened except tREFI - 44.9 ns
Round Trip Latency Enabled, that way I get 62/64/7/8 instead of 68/68/13/12 - 43.8 ns
PPD 0, tXP 15 or 31 (max) - 39.3-39.5 ns, but that's probably more due to RTL 68/64/13/8
tXP 1 or 4 - 38.8 ns
tREFI 65535 instead of default 16667 - 38.1 ns, but that's only for benching as my DIMMs are hot at 58°C.

So my next question is, can I fix tRTL and tIOL and it will always boot 62/64/7/8? Best if I find out myself.
EDIT: Nah, you can't do that, no boot. I'll check how much RTLs even help with latency, maybe it's more about PPD 0.
EDIT2: Round Trip Latency Disabled, tREFI 16667, tXP 1 - 39.8 ns

*Subs shave off exactly 2 ns, PPD 0 and tXP 1 exactly 5 ns, RTLs 1.1 ns and max tREFI another 0.7 ns*.
I guess no need to bother with RTLs for 24/7 use. Unless there is a way to get them trained properly 100% boots. Here it says it affects stability if they don't train properly and they are too far apart:





Advanced Skylake Overclocking: Tune DDR4 Memory RTL/IO on Maximus VIII with [email protected]'s Guide


Read the full article @ HWBOT




hwbot.org





I also tested 4400 17-17-17-36, tREFI 17181, Round Trip Latency Disabled, tXP 1, 40.8 ns, so 1 ns worse than 4266 C16. 4533 C17 would be theoretically same latency, but these DIMMs just don't work 4533, I even tried one at a time. Even if they would work, 4533 C17 wouldn't run and 4533 C18 is again worse than even 4400 C17.


----------



## robalm

Waspinator said:


> I finally know how to get sub 40ns.
> 4000 16-16-16-36 XMP - 48.4 ns
> 
> 4266 16-16-16-34
> all subs tightened except tREFI - 44.9 ns
> Round Trip Latency Enabled, that way I get 62/64/7/8 instead of 68/68/13/12 - 43.8 ns
> PPD 0, tXP 15 or 31 (max) - 39.3-39.5 ns, but that's probably more due to RTL 68/64/13/8
> tXP 1 or 4 - 38.8 ns
> tREFI 65535 instead of default 16667 - 38.1 ns, but that's only for benching as my DIMMs are hot at 58°C.
> 
> So my next question is, can I fix tRTL and tIOL and it will always boot 62/64/7/8? Best if I find out myself.
> EDIT: Nah, you can't do that, no boot. I'll check how much RTLs even help with latency, maybe it's more about PPD 0.
> EDIT2: 39.8 ns on tREFI 16667
> So PPD 0 and tXP 1 shaves off exactly 5 ns and RTLs exactly 1 ns.
> I guess no need to bother with RTLs for 24/7 use. Unless there is a way to get them trained properly 100% boots. Here it says it affects stability if they don't train properly and they are too far apart:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advanced Skylake Overclocking: Tune DDR4 Memory RTL/IO on Maximus VIII with [email protected]'s Guide
> 
> 
> Read the full article @ HWBOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also tested 4400 17-17-17-36, tREFI 17181, Round Trip Latency Disabled, tXP 1, 40.8 ns, so 1 ns worse than 4266 C16. 4533 C17 would be theoretically same latency, but these DIMMs just don't work 4533, I even tried one at a time. Even if they would work, 4533 C17 wouldn't run and 4533 C18 is again worse than even 4400 C17.


Nice found buddy about PPD and tXP.
I got a few ns less with PPD 0 and tXP 1 
Can i ask you what it is? 
And is it safe to run PPD 0 and tXP 1?


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> A fan blowing on the RAM is almost a must if you run anything higher than 1.45 VDIMM through them, in my experience anyways. I run 4500C18 and 1.55v (2x16gb), so I have a 140mm fan directly above the RAM sticks and that works out really well - but yeah it kinda ruins the look of the build when you have a glass door in the case.


...but who look in the case anyway? The dog or the cat in the house? 😆


----------



## fray_bentos

Nizzen said:


> ...but who look in the case anyway? The dog or the cat in the house? 😆


The burgler who spotted the pulsating RGB lights from outside the window...


----------



## Waspinator

robalm said:


> Nice found buddy about PPD and tXP.
> I got a few ns less with PPD 0 and tXP 1
> Can i ask you what it is?
> And is it safe to run PPD 0 and tXP 1?


Here I found about it, but OPs post was deleted:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/hpqsfc


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/i9rdgz

If it's safe I'm testing just now, so far Karhu 1h stable.
EDIT: Karhu errored after 5,5h.
tXP 4 so far 3 hours stable.


----------



## The Pook

my new RAM fan mount came 










edit: temps were worse at first but I managed to figure out a way that works. 

wish I would have got the 92mm so I could place the fan better but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Waspinator said:


> PPD 0, tXP 15 or 31 (max) - 39.3-39.5 ns, but that's probably more due to RTL 68/64/13/8
> tXP 1 or 4 - 38.8 ns





robalm said:


> Nice found buddy about PPD and tXP.
> I got a few ns less with PPD 0 and tXP 1
> Can i ask you what it is?
> And is it safe to run PPD 0 and tXP 1?


tried setting TXP to 4, didn't do much. set PPD to 0 and got ~2ns 

testing with GSAT now and if it passes I'll try 1 TXP.


----------



## robalm

Waspinator said:


> Here I found about it, but OPs post was deleted:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/hpqsfc
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/i9rdgz
> 
> If it's safe I'm testing just now, so far Karhu 1h stable.


From what i have been reading 
"Setting PPD to 0 disables power down" and then change TXP will do nothing.


----------



## Waspinator

On PPD 1 which is default on MSI, tXP doesn't do anything, that was my problem all along before reading more thoroughly.
tXP 1 is not completely 24/7 stable, Karhu error after 5,5h. tXP 4 errored after 8h.

It doesn't have to be that low anyway:
tXP 1 - 39.8 ns
tXP 6 - 39.8 ns
tXP 15 (default Auto setting) - 39.8 ns
tXP 31 (max setting) - 39.8 ns
PPD 1 - 42.0 ns, but it can be even more, yesterday it was 44.9 ns, PPD 0 is always exactly the same
Most important here is PPD 0.

EDIT: Thinking more about this it seems tXP doesn't do anything on PPD 0 either. But it affects stability, so it must do something.


----------



## esa1970

Good test of memory performance.Higher Gflops,better performance.


----------



## Nizzen

esa1970 said:


> Good test of memory performance.Higher Gflops,better performance.
> View attachment 2513995


Better to test Actual games. Higher fps= better performance


----------



## esa1970

Yes off course.But at the same processor speed, linback responds very well to memories .


----------



## Deonzy

I feel like Warzone is the ultimate benchmark game. more fps = better performance. if it crashes, it's not stable. lmaoooo


----------



## Betroz

Waspinator said:


> EDIT: Thinking more about this it seems tXP doesn't do anything on PPD 0 either. But it affects stability, so it must do something.


I use tXP 6 and PPD 0



Deonzy said:


> I feel like Warzone is the ultimate benchmark game. more fps = better performance. if it crashes, it's not stable. lmaoooo


Battlefield 5 multiplayer is a better stress test I think.


----------



## Waspinator

I also use tXP 6 now, that was 16h Karhu stable. And that was at 59,5°C. And people say B-Die doesn't like high temps. By my experience only tREFI doesn't like high temps.
Before going to work I also tested Uncore 4.8 GHz, that shaved off another 1 ns. So 38.8 ns for 24/7 settings. Then if I also set RTL training and tREFI 65535, I should get 36 ns.
Lowest I saw so far on 10th gen I think was 34 ns.


----------



## Astral85

fray_bentos said:


> That's a great bios feature! Memtest86 can show as stable, but then when gaming not, that's my experience. Clearly others have benefitted from fans on their RAM too. However, I have no idea what my RAM temps are during testing in memtest. I do know that the OCCT RAM test in Windows definitely heats my RAM less than 300 W aircooled gaming (even that would only ever max at 45 to 50 C or so without a fan). I have only ever set 1.45 Vdimm, I assume with such high temps in your case you are using even higher than that (my ambient temperature is almost never over 22 C, Scotland). Perhaps temps aren't the only aspect, and memtest86 isn't any good for anything other than a basic stability test.


One thing I'm wondering... 4 passes of Memtest86 is almost 2 hours long. Would you really want to run 4 passes to test every single RAM tweak??


----------



## Betroz

Waspinator said:


> I also use tXP 6 now, that was 16h Karhu stable. And that was at 59,5°C. And people say B-Die doesn't like high temps. By my experience only tREFI doesn't like high temps.
> Before going to work I also tested Uncore 4.8 GHz, that shaved off another 1 ns. So 38.8 ns for 24/7 settings. Then if I also set RTL training and tREFI 65535, I should get 36 ns.
> Lowest I saw so far on 10th gen I think was 34 ns.


Under 40ns is good enough 
Not all can achieve ~33ns as that not only requires a good binned b-die kit, but also a good IMC.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> One thing I'm wondering... 4 passes of Memtest86 is almost 2 hours long. Would you really want to run 4 passes to test every single RAM tweak??


A single pass can be OK if you just want to boot into windows to do a quick benchmark or two to see if there is improvement, but yes, that's why I don't tweak much. Once you have set frequency, primaries, tRFC and tREFI to something decent, personally, I don't think the time investment is worth it, unless you are in some sort of benchmark competition. People who do regular tweaks like that might consider using a secondary SSD with an installation of Windows on it that they don't mind corrupting (and an image available to restore it).


----------



## Waspinator

I already got 840 BSODs/restarts/freezes in the last half year testing several B-Die kits and Windows 10 is still going strong. I had to fix it 4 times though. Windows has 2 different commands for that, it's pretty simple to fix corrupted files.
Regular backups of uTorrent and AirDC++ are necessary though. Just today I accidentally ran Prime95 Small on 5 GHz 1.25V and it got to 100°C and freezed immediately though ASUS RealBench is stable. AirDC++ doesn't work anymore, I'll see what I can fix with old backups I have, it's probably just one file that got corrupted.


----------



## Betroz

Waspinator said:


> Just today I accidentally ran Prime95 Small on 5 GHz 1.25V and it got to 100°C and freezed immediately though ASUS RealBench is stable.


Adjust "Long duration Power limit" in BIOS to whatever power target your cooling system is capable of. This way when you fire up a Prime95 AVX load, it will downclock the CPU and you avoid hitting 100C and crashing. I have mine set at 250W, but I have a good 360mm AIO. Short duration power limit can of course be higher.


----------



## fray_bentos

Waspinator said:


> I already got 840 BSODs/restarts/freezes in the last half year testing several B-Die kits and Windows 10 is still going strong. I had to fix it 4 times though. Windows has 2 different commands for that, it's pretty simple to fix corrupted files.
> Regular backups of uTorrent and AirDC++ are necessary though. Just today I accidentally ran Prime95 Small on 5 GHz 1.25V and it got to 100°C and freezed immediately though ASUS RealBench is stable. AirDC++ doesn't work anymore, I'll see what I can fix with old backups I have, it's probably just one file that got corrupted.


"Windows 10 is still going strong".
"I had to fix it 4 times though"
"AirDC++ doesn't work anymore"


----------



## acoustic

The Pook said:


> pretty sure I'm settling with 4133 15-16-16 on this new kit. tried 15-15-15 but I couldn't get it stable with <1.35v SA/1.55v DIMM.
> 
> View attachment 2513322
> 
> 
> I'll test longer later when I get the sub timings dialed in, most of them are pretty loose/bad.


That seems like a poor IMC. 1.35v SA seems high. I’m running 1.18v SA/IO for 4133CL17 with tightened secondary/tertiary and tight RTL/IO. I wonder if the IMC is holding back the chips, though 15-16-16 seems quite good.


----------



## Waspinator

That's 100% not IMC holding it back, it's the ICs.


----------



## acoustic

ICs require higher VCCSA? I thought SA voltage was for the IMC.


----------



## The Pook

acoustic said:


> That seems like a poor IMC. 1.35v SA seems high. I’m running 1.18v SA/IO for 4133CL17 with tightened secondary/tertiary and tight RTL/IO. I wonder if the IMC is holding back the chips, though 15-16-16 seems quite good.


that was a >week ago, I'm still trying to dial things in but I'm stable at 1.29v at 4200. maybe lower but haven't tried yet, still trying to dial in the RAM first.

it definitely needs more SA/IO than my old 9900K though.


----------



## Waspinator

acoustic said:


> ICs require higher VCCSA? I thought SA voltage was for the IMC.


No, but he said he couldn't get them stable with 1.35V SA and 1.55V VDIMM. SA for 10850K IMC is certainly enough, so that is not the problem. He also didn't say 1.35V SA is the lowest stable, so I wouldn't claim his IMC is bad.
Then it's the ICs. You can verify that quite easily, set 15-15-15 and start with lower frequency like 3800 and check min voltage required, then same for 4000. If 4000 needs 1.52V or so, then for sure that is the problem on 4133 15-15-15 1.55V.
On dual rank I can't even run 3700 15-15-15, I think it's the board as I'm on second dual rank kit now. But on single rank it went like this:
4000 - 1.48V, 4100 - 1.51V, 4133 - 1.52V, 4200 - 1.54V was semi stable only for 2 hours

It certainly helps if you know the limits of your IMC and ICs. What helps here if you are at least on a second kit. For example my current kit is not stable 4533 C19. If that was my first kit, I could also blame IMC as it's hard to verify that when you're already at 1.40V SA. But I had a kit before that worked 4533 C18 no problem, so I know it the ICs.



fray_bentos said:


> "Windows 10 is still going strong".
> "I had to fix it 4 times though"
> "AirDC++ doesn't work anymore"


But it's so easy to fix, you just run sfc/scannow or Dism commands. And AirDC I fixed quickly now, I had backup from march and only one file was corrupted, so other files are new. I'm not saying secondary SSD isn't a better option, I'm just saying Windows is quite reselient.


----------



## acoustic

The Pook said:


> that was a >week ago, I'm still trying to dial things in but I'm stable at 1.29v. maybe lower but haven't tried yet, still trying to dial in the RAM first.
> 
> it definitely needs more SA/IO than my old 9900K though.


Yeah, even 1.29v SA seems high considering the frequency, but that's just the difference per chip I suppose. I guess my chip is decent on that front since I can run quite low IO/SA and be stable at 4133 17-17-17-32, though it's not the best clocker. I could probably push the mem a bit harder as I'm only at 1.52v, but until I have the rig under the custom loop, it's not worth the extra heat. Once my 3080 on the hybrid cooler saturates during 30min of gaming, it's pumping pretty warm air into the case. With the mem at 1.55v it's still stable and I have no issues, but again.. don't see the point. Once I get everything on a loop I should be able to try and push for 4266 or maybe 4400. I know I was having a hard time getting 4266 to post, so we'll see..


----------



## Astral85

Does anyone test with OCCT SSE/AVX2 memory tests? I don't understand. My 17-18-38 3866 will pass 3-4 passes of Memtest86 but errors almost immediately in OCCT AVX2 memory test. The culprit seems to be tRAS 38, if I set tRAS 39 it will pass OCCT. Does this seem unusual? SA/IO is 1.25 each, DRAM voltage 1.4v.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> Does anyone test with OCCT SSE/AVX2 memory tests? I don't understand. My 17-18-38 3866 will pass 3-4 passes of Memtest86 but errors almost immediately in OCCT AVX2 memory test. The culprit seems to be tRAS 38, if I set tRAS 39 it will pass OCCT. Does this seem unusual? SA/IO is 1.25 each, DRAM voltage 1.4v.


Well, now that is a good reason not to put a lot of faith in memtest86!


----------



## SunnyStefan

OCCT is great for stress testing RAM / CPU, it's been consistently improving in terms of features and error detection for awhile now.
If you want to use something other than OCCT, I'd consider looking into TestMem5 (w/ anta config), Karhu, or GSAT.
Prime95 is also fantastic, but the ideal test parameters will vary depending on the hardware being used, and the component being stressed.
I think Memtest86 falls short when compared to the stress testing applications mentioned above.


----------



## alexbrad

has anyone passed GSAT with a Z590 board?
I swapped Apex XII with a Apex XIII, my 2x16 F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK kit fails to pass GSAT no matter setting I throw, even XMP
TM5 with anta777 profile is good though

I know that there's still a lot of work to fix the bios for Z590, it's still a mess...


----------



## YaqY

alexbrad said:


> has anyone passed GSAT with a Z590 board?
> I swapped Apex XII with a Apex XIII, my 2x16 F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK kit fails to pass GSAT no matter setting I throw, even XMP
> TM5 with anta777 profile is good though
> 
> I know that there's still a lot of work to fix the bios for Z590, it's still a mess...


I have heard the z590 apex is not as strong as z490 apex with dual rank. I would try mch fullcheck enabled, mrc fastboot disabled, round trip latency enabled. It might be a matter of also manually tuning the odts. What bios are you on?


----------



## alexbrad

yeah, to be honest Z590 is a downgrade, but when you're getting bored what can you do =))
0903 mainly but last night I tried the default one 0506 from dual bios, also some other versions... 
still keeping the 10900K, not gonna make another mistake "upgrading" something else =))


----------



## Imprezzion

Even if I ever find a secondhand cheap 11900K I'll just stick to my Z490 Ace. No need to upgrade even for PCI-E 4.0 for me and this board does incredibly well with DR dimms so far.

Z87 to Z97 actually made sense and so did Z170 to Z270 but this..


----------



## shocker94

Astral85 said:


> Does anyone test with OCCT SSE/AVX2 memory tests? I don't understand. My 17-18-38 3866 will pass 3-4 passes of Memtest86 but errors almost immediately in OCCT AVX2 memory test. The culprit seems to be tRAS 38, if I set tRAS 39 it will pass OCCT. Does this seem unusual? SA/IO is 1.25 each, DRAM voltage 1.4v.


How much do you have the tRTP?

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## PhoenixMDA

A good Kit of 4000C14 bin.
Memtest stable arround 43° and 4700 possible if imc is allstable at 4700.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> A good Kit of 4000C14 bin.
> View attachment 2514239


Wow very nice results 👍. Seems to be much stronger than your old bin? Vdimm seems quite strong too for 4666 C16 1.59 is amazing for dual rank. What frequency can they boot up to?


----------



## 2500k_2

PhoenixMDA said:


> A good Kit of 4000C14 bin.
> Memtest stable arround 43° and 4700 possible if imc is allstable at 4700.
> View attachment 2514239


excellent result. Does the 7ns rcd kit have it? 4000 14 14 or 4266 15 15? 
If so then I think you can try 4800 17 17. I think this task will not be a problem for apex 12.
Unfortunately, I can’t force you to load 4800 on a 4 dimm board. None of the odt works.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> Wow very nice results 👍. Seems to be much stronger than your old bin? Vdimm seems quite strong too for 4666 C16 1.59 is amazing for dual rank. What frequency can they boot up to?


My imc limit me with slope´s generall at 4770Mhz, max. 24/7 allstable 4666, 4700 is not in every case stable with my imc.
The new Dimm´s with the right CPU i think can do 4800.
But in Auto GSat stability my old Kit is the better one there it is possible to drive 4666CL17-17 1h Gsat without slopes, at CL16 the 4000C14 Kit is stronger, but with 4666cl17 not GSat stable.
But i can say to you 2x 4000C14bin one 4000C14 Kit was not Gsat stable cl16-17 at 4600/4666mhz, another kit can´t drive trdrd_sg at 6 only 7 but boot up to 4700 easier.

It´s really important that the ic´s on the dimms like equal, if that isn´t so, i think then trdrd_sg 6 not possible and GSat is for trashcan.
Both dimms must be like the same, that is the reason why my old Kit is really awesome with Auto slopes.

I think both Kit´s are awesome, for the most people like my old Kit will be better.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> My imc limit me with slope´s generall at 4770Mhz, max. 24/7 allstable 4666, 4700 is not in every case stable with my imc.
> The new Dimm´s with the right CPU i think can do 4800.
> But in Auto GSat stability my old Kit is the better one there it is possible to drive 4666CL17-17 1h Gsat without slopes, at CL16 the 4000C14 Kit is stronger, but with 4666cl17 not GSat stable.
> But i can say to you 2x 4000C14bin one 4000C14 Kit was not Gsat stable cl16-17 at 4600/4666mhz, another kit can´t drive trdrd_sg at 6 only 7 but boot up to 4700 easier.
> 
> It´s really important that the ic´s on the dimms like equal, if that isn´t so, i think then trdrd_sg 6 not possible and GSat is for trashcan.
> Both dimms must be like the same, that is the reason why my old Kit is really awesome with Auto slopes.
> 
> I think both Kit´s are awesome, for the most people like my old Kit will be better.


My current kit does not boot trdrd_sg 6 at 4600+. I think it is a good indicator of the quality of a kit. As always there will be lottery involved even on their highest binned kits they can't guarantee such high frequencies with tight timings. I see you are driving trdrd_dr at 5 at 4666 that is very impressive.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> My current kit does not boot trdrd_sg 6 at 4600+. I think it is a good indicator of the quality of a kit. As always there will be lottery involved even on their highest binned kits they can't guarantee such high frequencies with tight timings. I see you are driving trdrd_dr at 5 at 4666 that is very impressive.


That means only that your Sticks not equal to each other, or you have one good and one not so good modul.
To find 2 equal sticks in only one Kit that can do all is extrem rare.



2500k_2 said:


> excellent result. Does the 7ns rcd kit have it? 4000 14 14 or 4266 15 15?
> If so then I think you can try 4800 17 17. I think this task will not be a problem for apex 12.
> Unfortunately, I can’t force you to load 4800 on a 4 dimm board. None of the odt works.


My imc cant do 4800, but this kit is not only good in ns,also in frequency, the Kit can do 4800^^.
Here is a fast test with 4000cl14-14 need´s min. 1,51V bios for memtest, that are 1,522V HWinfo.


----------



## shocker94

I've replaced the z590 apex and patriot viper 4400, but the same issue occur. Sometime train well, other IOLs are 2 apart.
With mch full check on, TM5 show error on 4 and 5 test. Without full check, there are no error. Any suggestion?

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## YaqY

shocker94 said:


> I've replaced the z590 apex and patriot viper 4400, but the same issue occur. Sometime train well, other IOLs are 2 apart.
> With mch full check on, TM5 show error on 4 and 5 test. Without full check, there are no error. Any suggestion?
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


I would make sure the cpu is put into the socket properly with proper contact, (no bent pins and clean pads on cpu), sometimes you should also clean the contacts of the ram with some isopropyl alcohol.


----------



## shocker94

YaqY said:


> I would make sure the cpu is put into the socket properly with proper contact, (no bent pins and clean pads on cpu), sometimes you should also clean the contacts of the ram with some isopropyl alcohol.


I've already checked the socket and ram. The issue begin above 4200mhz. Problably manually tuning the RTL/IOL could help.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## YaqY

shocker94 said:


> I've already checked the socket and ram. The issue begin above 4200mhz. Problably manually tuning the RTL/IOL could help.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


You can manually set them in the rtl/iol section and they will always train at what you set.


----------



## shocker94

YaqY said:


> You can manually set them in the rtl/iol section and they will always train at what you set.


I'll try, because it's too strange. There's no sense to change train at every boot. The z490 strix e never had this issue.


Spoiler





























Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Astral85

Does anyone know where to get the Mem TweakIT program?


----------



## The Pook

Astral85 said:


> Does anyone know where to get the Mem TweakIT program?











Dropbox - File Deleted


Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again!




www.dropbox.com


----------



## shocker94

YaqY said:


> You can manually set them in the rtl/iol section and they will always train at what you set.


I've tried, but new issue occur. I think the CPU is going to die.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## YaqY

shocker94 said:


> I've tried, but new issue occur. I think the CPU is going to die.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


Why is that? Has a voltage been set too high? Generally I set pll termination and standby voltages manually also pll bandwidth to level one.


----------



## shocker94

YaqY said:


> Why is that? Has a voltage been set too high? Generally I set pll termination and standby voltages manually also pll bandwidth to level one.


I haven't touch nothing, and now can't install anything. Games start after 1 minute, the game load, but crash in game. No ram error and no BSOD. I've already reinstalled windows and made a cmos.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## fray_bentos

shocker94 said:


> I haven't touch nothing, and now can't install anything. Games start after 1 minute, the game load, but crash in game. No ram error and no BSOD. I've already reinstalled windows and made a cmos.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


Set your RAM frequency to 4000 MHz. Then tell us what happens. Not all CPUs can run 4400 MHz, and those that do need silly high SA and IO voltages. Also consider that 10850K is a less-well binned 10900K, so even more likely to struggle. If lowering RAM frequency doesn't work, it could be that high automatically set SA and IO voltages set by your motherboard have damaged the IMC of your chip.


----------



## shocker94

fray_bentos said:


> Set your RAM frequency to 4000 MHz. Then tell us what happens. Not all CPUs can run 4400 MHz, and those that do need silly high SA and IO voltages. Also consider that 10850K is a less-well binned 10900K, so even more likely to struggle. If lowering RAM frequency doesn't work, it could be that high automatically set SA and IO voltages set by your motherboard have damaged the IMC of your chip.


I've always used 1.25v sa io, with 4266. 4400 is the xmp profile, but i never managed to be stable. This morning i was playing without issue. Now it's all completely broken. I don't know if is hardware or software issue. Because the pc doesn't crash.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## fray_bentos

shocker94 said:


> I've always used 1.25v sa io, with 4266. 4400 is the xmp profile, but i never managed to be stable. This morning i was playing without issue. Now it's all completely broken. I don't know if is hardware or software issue. Because the pc doesn't crash.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


My 10900KF isn't stable with 4266 MHz at 1.45 V; I'm not surprised or disgruntled because my RAM was sold to me as 3600 MHz CL15. Games crash to desktop, just like you note with no error. That's why I run 4200 MHz. XMP isn't guaranteed, especially with gimmicky bins such as 4400 MHz; you're disgruntled because you can't hit the speed you paid for/expected. Reading this thread you'll see most decent DIMMs (e.g. from 3200 CL14 to 4400 CLwhatever) top out around the same performance/frequency, irrespective of how they are marketted. All one needs to do to get higher is crank up the Vdimm, and/or SA and IO voltages.


----------



## Astral85

The Pook said:


> Dropbox - File Deleted
> 
> 
> Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Error during driver initialization... Seems to be a thread about it here: Memtweakit error fix - Page 2


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@YaqY
I must correct me, if i change the Sticks among themselves CL17 is no problem with auto slope´s.
31° room temp^^ i go to beach😅
If you have 2 like equal Sticks of the CL14 Bin,the Bin is awesome^^.If they do not fit together, then it´s like for trashcan.
[email protected],48V


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> @YaqY
> I must correct me, if i change the Sticks among themselves CL17 is no problem with auto slope´s.
> 31° room temp^^ i go to beach😅
> If you have 2 like equal Sticks of the CL14 Bin,the Bin is awesome^^.If they do not fit together, then it´s like for trashcan.
> 
> View attachment 2514404


Nice result, i have some 4000 16-19-19 coming i hope those are good.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> Nice result, i have some 4000 16-19-19 coming i hope those are good.


Its easier to find 2 good sticks if you take the best Stick of more as one Kit.
Its very rar to have 2 good and also equal sticks in one Kit.I remember the video with selekted 4266Sticks was able to do 4800CL14.
On the sticks was number 1 and 9


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> Its easier to find 2 good sticks if you take the best Stick of more as one Kit.
> Its very rar to have 2 good and also equal sticks in one Kit.


Hopefully i have some luck this time. Maybe my imc is not good but my current set is not good for GSAT above 4400, even with slope tuning i cannot get it consistent. Some boots its fine but not all boots.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Test the Sticks for solo boot with CL16-17.
The stronger modul must be in slot1.

For Gsat its also very important that the sticks like equal, if that isnt so Gsat dont work.
With my old kit it was possible to change the Sticks among themselves and Gsat works Auto, with the new 2Sticks for Gsat Auto slope the right one must be in Slot 1.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> Test the Sticks for solo boot with CL16-17.
> The stronger modul must be in slot1.
> 
> For Gsat its also very important that the sticks like equal, if that isnt so Gsat dont work.
> With my old kit it was possible to change the Sticks among themselves and Gsat works Auto, with the new 2Sticks for Gsat Auto slope the right one must be in Slot 1.


Would this be the max frequency in the same channel for each stick? So i test each stick in slot one and see the stronger kit in slot 1? I assume by slot 1 you mean the slot closest to the cpu. Any subtimings set or just 16-17 and increase frequency?


----------



## Waspinator

PhoenixMDA said:


> Its easier to find 2 good sticks if you take the best Stick of more as one Kit.
> Its very rar to have 2 good and also equal sticks in one Kit.I remember the video with selekted 4266Sticks was able to do 4800CL14.
> On the sticks was number 1 and 9


This is especially true for 3200 14-14 kit, they can be completely different sticks, one good for CL14 and one good for highest frequency. My 3600 14-15 and 4000 16-16 have pretty much the same sticks.
I hope I never get into this again, I spent half year with DDR4. And when I was finally done, PhoenixMDA is posting some crazy results from 4000 14-14 bin. But I don't really care anymore, I'm happy with 4266 16-16.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> Test the Sticks for solo boot with CL16-17.
> The stronger modul must be in slot1.
> 
> For Gsat its also very important that the sticks like equal, if that isnt so Gsat dont work.
> With my old kit it was possible to change the Sticks among themselves and Gsat works Auto, with the new 2Sticks for Gsat Auto slope the right one must be in Slot 1.


I tested both separately, in slot 1 max boot is 4666 16-17, one stick boots with 1.62V the other with 1.63V so the difference seems small. TRDRD_SG 6 boots on neither. ODTS Auto.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

The ic's in the modul Inselfs can also be different.
I would say test in both configuration slot1 dimm1/2 2/1.
The first Kit of 4000c14 cant trdrd_sg 6 only 7 but if i take the better modul with a other good one then it works trdrd_sg 6.

@Waspinator
My selected 3200Kit is also awesome and can do [email protected],54V, [email protected],54V up to 43/45°.
But there i had the big luck that both sticks of this kit was really great.
Vdimm is the new kit really great.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

P.s.
min. Win Boot voltage for compare with 4000CL16-16.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> P.s.
> min. Win Boot voltage for compare with 4000CL16-16.
> View attachment 2514447


I need 1.45V to even train 4000CL16-16, so the quality of these sticks is quite poor.


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> P.s.
> min. Win Boot voltage for compare with 4000CL16-16.
> View attachment 2514447


Very nice kit. Have you been able to boot 4800C17?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> Very nice kit. Have you been able to boot 4800C17?


The Limit of my imc with "normal" voltages are arround 4770mhz.perhaps its possible in Winter with cold temp.But im sure that the Kit can do this.
It can also boot mode2 correct up to 4400mhz, able is 4500.

@YaqY
Yes that is not so good, but test it without subs how much you need.Only CL16-16.
My old kit needs 1,36V for boot and 1,37V for memtest that is really good.


----------



## Waspinator

PhoenixMDA said:


> P.s.
> min. Win Boot voltage for compare with 4000CL16-16.


That's such a great bin. So 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V is nothing special, I can boot 1.37V, but BSOD when running stress test, 1.38V 1,5min, 1.39V 6min, 1.40V stable 20h+.
By my experience board difference gives up to 0.03V, but 1.325V is still great even in that case, I think mine would boot 1.34V on the best board.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Waspinator said:


> That's such a great bin. So 4000 16-16-16-36 1.40V is nothing special, I can boot 1.37V, but BSOD when running stress test, 1.38V 1,5min, 1.39V 6min, 1.40V stable 20h+.
> By my experience board difference gives up to 0.03V, but 1.325V is still great even in that case, I think mine would boot 1.34V on the best board.


I think for the price the bin is really great, under 300,- as ripjaw is a very good price, you can be lucky and have a kit that is much better but not worse as your result,
remember i have said i had also a 3200CL14 kit wasn´t able to do [email protected],5V over 3600Mhz, need´s CL16-17/CL16-18 to scale.
And the 3200c14-14 cost 240,-.

If you want the really best chip what is possible only 4000C14 has it, but there you have also the problem you need 2 equal Sticks and that has perhaps every 3-5Kit or more.
i dont know it, it´s luck.Don´t forget Vdimm is not all.


----------



## Astral85

I notice some weird behavior from my mobo/BIOS in which clearing the CMOS corrects it. Today I re-ran OCCT SEE memory test and it errored within minutes on the same memory OC that previously passed. I spent the whole day trying to work it out. Then I decided to clear the CMOS and reload my ram OC BIOS profile. After that my memory OC passes OCCT SEE 30 mins....

Can @shamino1978 comment on this? BIOS 0909 XIII Hero.


----------



## itssladenlol

Astral85 said:


> I notice some weird behavior from my mobo/BIOS in which clearing the CMOS corrects it. Today I re-ran OCCT SEE memory test and it errored within minutes on the same memory OC that previously passed. I spent the whole day trying to work it out. Then I decided to clear the CMOS and reload my ram OC BIOS profile. After that my memory OC passes OCCT SEE 30 mins....
> 
> Can @shamino1978 comment on this? BIOS 0909 XIII Hero.


Probably bitlines trained different After cmos Reset.


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> I notice some weird behavior from my mobo/BIOS in which clearing the CMOS corrects it. Today I re-ran OCCT SEE memory test and it errored within minutes on the same memory OC that previously passed. I spent the whole day trying to work it out. Then I decided to clear the CMOS and reload my ram OC BIOS profile. After that my memory OC passes OCCT SEE 30 mins....
> 
> Can @shamino1978 comment on this? BIOS 0909 XIII Hero.


I test my daily memory overclocks with gsat and reboot 2-3 times with mch fullcheck enable and mrc fast kit disable if I can’t pass these gsat runs it is not daily stable.


----------



## Astral85

YaqY said:


> I test my daily memory overclocks with gsat and reboot 2-3 times with mch fullcheck enable and mrc fast kit disable if I can’t pass these gsat runs it is not daily stable.


stressapptest/stressapptest Is this gsat? What is good about it? Is it a quick test?


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> stressapptest/stressapptest Is this gsat? What is good about it? Is it a quick test?


I find it quite strong for testing memory stability. Use it along a memory stress test also like karhu+tm5+hci, it seems quite sensitive to proper skews etc.


----------



## esa1970

Now came a bit of a tightening of settings.No big difference,but better.


----------



## Astral85

YaqY said:


> I find it quite strong for testing memory stability. Use it along a memory stress test also like karhu+tm5+hci, it seems quite sensitive to proper skews etc.


How do you install in on Windows? What does MCH full check do? Is MRC fast kit the same as MRC fast boot? Why do you have MRC fast kit disabled?


----------



## Astral85

PhoenixMDA said:


> P.s.
> min. Win Boot voltage for compare with 4000CL16-16.
> View attachment 2514447


Looking good. What kit do you have?


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> How do you install in on Windows? What does MCH full check do? Is MRC fast kit the same as MRC fast boot? Why do you have MRC fast kit disabled?


MRC fastboot disabled means ram will train fully every boot, if you cant train clean every boot then its not worth to daily so i keep it disabled. MCH fullcheck seems to be a harder training routine, if it is unstable it will hit 55 post code.

"MCH Full check will retrain DIMMs a number of times instead of not mapping them to the OS if they are not fully stable during POST. The POST routines send over 1000 write/read ops to the DIMMs. If the DRAM is not 100% stable during that process the board will restart training repeatedly until they are, with the MCH reccheck option enabled. If MCH recheck is disabled and a DIMM is unstable it will be dropped or POST will halt."


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Astral85 said:


> Looking good. What kit do you have?


That are 2 Sticks from the 4000C14Bin.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Astral85 said:


> stressapptest/stressapptest Is this gsat? What is good about it? Is it a quick test?


It test more the comunikation between cpu/ram, it´s no memtest!!!, you must test karhu/memtest seperat.
GSat is important to test stability if you drive higher frequency, then it´s the most difficult to get this test really stable every boot, that is the reason why i set the slope´s.

In reality for 24/7 if you are memtest stable, have enough VCore for OCCT and your are only the first few minute´s every boot gsat stable, it´s will be enough
that you never get any problem´s.
Best case in high frequency is with slope´s full stable,like i do.


----------



## The Pook

figured out how change RTLs without the board flat out refusing to boot, seems like a BIOS bug. 

I've gotta change the frequency (up or down) when I change them, then when it POSTs I can go back into the BIOS and put the frequency back to 4200. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Gen.

@The Pook 

It's not very good.

tRAS = 35
tWRPRE = 30
tRDPRE = 6
tRRD_L = 6
tRFC = auto?
tWRRD_sg = 26
tWRRD_dg = 22
tCKE = auto (PPD = 0, tXP = 4)
tRDRD_sg = 6 / training 6
tRDRD_dg = 4 / training 4
tWRWR_sg = 6
tWRWR_dg = 4

tRDWR_sg / dg / dr = 11 or 12 all, tRDWR_dd = 0

tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0 + tWRRD_dr / dd = tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0

tWRWR_dr / dd = 7/0

tREFI best 65024.

Try it.

RTL auto and attach a screenshot. I will help.


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> @The Pook
> 
> It's not very good.
> 
> tRAS = 35
> tWRPRE = 30
> tRDPRE = 6
> tRRD_L = 6
> tRFC = auto?
> tWRRD_sg = 26
> tWRRD_dg = 22
> tCKE = auto (PPD = 0, tXP = 4)
> tRDRD_sg = 6 / training 6
> tRDRD_dg = 4 / training 4
> tWRWR_sg = 6
> tWRWR_dg = 4
> 
> tRDWR_sg / dg / dr = 11 or 12 all, tRDWR_dd = 0
> 
> tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0 + tWRRD_dr / dd = tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0
> 
> tWRWR_dr / dd = 7/0
> 
> tREFI best 65024.
> 
> Try it.
> 
> RTL auto and attach a screenshot. I will help.


Can you give me some insights too on my OC? It's currently stable, so I'm looking to improve it (can't lower tWRRD_sg to 28 or less, it results in tWTR_L at 7 and it doesn't even post):


----------



## Astral85

What sort of gain should you see from tRAS tightening? I tightened tRAS from 36 to 32 (16-16-32) and don't see any real gain in AIDA R/W/C or latency.


----------



## Astral85

PhoenixMDA said:


> It test more the comunikation between cpu/ram, it´s no memtest!!!, you must test karhu/memtest seperat.
> GSat is important to test stability if you drive higher frequency, then it´s the most difficult to get this test really stable every boot, that is the reason why i set the slope´s.
> 
> In reality for 24/7 if you are memtest stable, have enough VCore for OCCT and your are only the first few minute´s every boot gsat stable, it´s will be enough
> that you never get any problem´s.
> Best case in high frequency is with slope´s full stable,like i do.


Is GSAT design to run on every boot before starting Windows? How long is the test before it enters Windows? 

Running GSAT in Windows 10 with Windows Subsystem for... Is post #1 the correct way to install this on Windows?


----------



## munternet

Astral85 said:


> Is GSAT design to run on every boot before starting Windows? How long is the test before it enters Windows?
> 
> Running GSAT in Windows 10 with Windows Subsystem for... Is post #1 the correct way to install this on Windows?


Maybe have a look at this youtube video 



 and then have another look at that tutorial


----------



## Astral85

Do these results look odd? 3866Mhz with very little tweaks and 3800Mhz with heavy primary and RTL training tweaks.


----------



## robalm

PhoenixMDA said:


> P.s.
> min. Win Boot voltage for compare with 4000CL16-16.
> View attachment 2514447


Man that is good, i need 1.368v


----------



## Gen.

Maximis tweak = mode2
Command Rate = n to ratio
n=1
round trip latency disabled
turn arround disabled
rtl auto completely, but offsets 21-21 and rfr 14-14
fast boot disabled
msx full check enabled
trace centering disabled


trefi 65024
tcwl 14
trdrd sg 6
twrwr sg 6
trdwr sg/dg 11/11
twrrd sg/dg 26/22
twrpre 30
trdpre 6

On my board (apex 11) I reached stable 4600 17-17-1T 1.52, 4533 17-17-1T 1.49, 4400 16-16-1T 1.53

BIOS only 1105, 0021, 1502, 1602 (best for me). 1704 and young - fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...........


----------



## Gen.

*Astral85 I welcome you here. You have poor workout settings and other timings. Would you like to try 4000 16-16 or higher?*


----------



## The Pook

Gen. said:


> @The Pook
> 
> It's not very good.
> 
> tRAS = 35
> tWRPRE = 30
> tRDPRE = 6
> tRRD_L = 6
> tRFC = auto?
> tWRRD_sg = 26
> tWRRD_dg = 22
> tCKE = auto (PPD = 0, tXP = 4)
> tRDRD_sg = 6 / training 6
> tRDRD_dg = 4 / training 4
> tWRWR_sg = 6
> tWRWR_dg = 4
> 
> tRDWR_sg / dg / dr = 11 or 12 all, tRDWR_dd = 0
> 
> tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0 + tWRRD_dr / dd = tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0
> 
> tWRWR_dr / dd = 7/0
> 
> tREFI best 65024.
> 
> Try it.
> 
> RTL auto and attach a screenshot. I will help.


where were you a month ago when I was fighting trying to get 4266 working? seems to work now even though I've already tried setting every timing to the moon to see if it'd work before ¯\_(ツ)_/¯










tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg aren't stable at 26/22, it fails about ~20 minutes into GSAT. 27/23 is the lowest I can get stable.

forgot to change tWRWR_dr/tWRWR_dd, but I just changed them to 7/0 and testing again now. About 30 minutes in and so far so good. 

Not sure what you mean by this, though: 



> tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0 + tWRRD_dr / dd = tRDRD_dr / dd = 5/0


do you just mean set tRDRD/tWRRD/tRDRD_dr to 5 and tRDRD/tWRRD/tRDRD_dd to 0?


----------



## Gen.

Now:

DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [16]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [3]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [8]
DRAM Write Latency [14]

DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [62]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [8]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [8]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [8]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [8]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]


Late Command Training [Auto]
Round Trip Latency [Disabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
Rank Margin Tool [Auto]
Rank Margin Tool Per Bit [Auto]
Margin Check Limit [Disabled]
Memory Test [Disabled]

tRDRD_sg_Training [6]
tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
tRDRD_dg_Training [4]
tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
tRDWR_sg [12] may be 11
tRDWR_dg [12] may be 11
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [28]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [5]
tRDRD_dd [0]
tRDWR_dr [12] may be 11
tRDWR_dd [0]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [0]
tWRRD_dr [5]
tWRRD_dd [0]
TWRPRE [34]
TRDPRE [8]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [0]
TXP [4]
PPD [0]

MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
Delay after Train [Disabled]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
Trace Centering [Disabled] Sometimes Enabled can help with instability, if required
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
Training Profile [Auto]
DLLBwEn [2 or auto]
Legacy Mode [Disabled]
SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
XTU Setting [Auto]

4266 cl15 at 1.54 - excellent memory. You can also do 4533 16-17 1.55 if you have a good imс.

Remember that tRTP = 6 can be at tWTR_L = 6, if tWTR_L cannot work at a value of 6, but only at 7 and higher, then it is better to put tWTR_L = 8, tRTP = 8, and tWR = 2 * tRTP (2 * 8 = 16). It will be better this way.


And the difference when
tWTR_S = 2 / tWTR_L = 6 / tWR = 12 / tRTP = 6 and tWTR_S = 4 / tWTR_L = 8 / tWR = 16 / tRTP = 8 I didn't see.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@robalm
1.368V is really good, like my awesome old Kit, don´t forget this are 2 better sticks from the 4000C14 bin.



Astral85 said:


> Is GSAT design to run on every boot before starting Windows? How long is the test before it enters Windows?
> 
> Running GSAT in Windows 10 with Windows Subsystem for... Is post #1 the correct way to install this on Windows?


Yes that´s right summary
activate windows Subsystem for Linux,
load Ubuntu from MS Appstore then start.
*sudo apt update*
then
*sudo apt-get install stressapptest*

start 1h for 32GB:
*stressapptest -W -M 27008 -s 3600 --pause_delay 3700*

The Google stresstest app test the communication between CPU Ram very hard and on a other way as other programms.
I take this also for set the slope´s to get consistent stability in the boarder of OC and sometime spare Voltage like the screen at 4600 with 1,3/1,305V IO/SA Bios.
At 4666CL16-17 it was for me possible to spare IO/SA, i need the same as auto for really consistent stability.


----------



## SoldierRBT

@PhoenixMDA 

Those are really awesome sticks. The best mine can do 4600 17-17-17-32 is 1.52v auto slopes. I got the new RunMemtestPro version and it's configured to only 100% coverage at default. Forgot to change that before running.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@SoldierRBT
You have Sticks like my awesome old Kit, that´s really great.
The most difference of the good 2 Sticks of 4000C14 Bin ist the VDimm, the stronger sub´s with performance gain and
boot error like 31/34 or so you don´t see with the less voltage and high temp´s.
But the sticks can´t easy drive 4666CL17-17.Perhaps like unpossible to get really fullstable.
But for that [email protected],57(38-39°), 1,585V 43° works easy with auto slope´s also Gsat/Memtest stable.

The sticks are really awesome, for 24/7 i let the 5,1/4,7/[email protected],48V 1,3V IO/1,305SA the voltage´s and temp´s look´s to great for 33° room temp😅


----------



## The Pook

Gen. said:


> Now:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: snip
> 
> 
> 
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [16]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [8]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [3]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [8]
> DRAM Write Latency [14]
> 
> DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [61]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [61]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [62]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [62]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [8]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> 
> 
> Late Command Training [Auto]
> Round Trip Latency [Disabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Auto]
> Rank Margin Tool Per Bit [Auto]
> Margin Check Limit [Disabled]
> Memory Test [Disabled]
> 
> tRDRD_sg_Training [6]
> tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
> tRDRD_dg_Training [4]
> tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
> tRDWR_sg [12] may be 11
> tRDWR_dg [12] may be 11
> tWRWR_sg [6]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [28]
> tWRRD_dg [23]
> tRDRD_dr [5]
> tRDRD_dd [0]
> tRDWR_dr [12] may be 11
> tRDWR_dd [0]
> tWRWR_dr [7]
> tWRWR_dd [0]
> tWRRD_dr [5]
> tWRRD_dd [0]
> TWRPRE [34]
> TRDPRE [8]
> tREFIX9 [127]
> OREF_RI [0]
> TXP [4]
> PPD [0]
> 
> MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
> Delay after Train [Disabled]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
> Trace Centering [Disabled] Sometimes Enabled can help with instability, if required
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [2 or auto]
> Legacy Mode [Disabled]
> SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
> XTU Setting [Auto]
> 
> 4266 cl15 at 1.54 - excellent memory. You can also do 4533 16-17 1.55 if you have a good imс.
> 
> Remember that tRTP = 6 can be at tWTR_L = 6, if tWTR_L cannot work at a value of 6, but only at 7 and higher, then it is better to put tWTR_L = 8, tRTP = 8, and tWR = 2 * tRTP (2 * 8 = 16). It will be better this way.
> 
> 
> And the difference when
> tWTR_S = 2 / tWTR_L = 6 / tWR = 12 / tRTP = 6 and tWTR_S = 4 / tWTR_L = 8 / tWR = 16 / tRTP = 8 I didn't see.


any reason for auto tRFC? or just auto until everything else is dialed in?

running GSAT for an hour on it now and so far so good, if it passes I'll run it overnight/tomorrow for a bit longer and make sure. 










thanks man


----------



## SoldierRBT

@PhoenixMDA 

At 1.52v 4600 17-17 I don't have boot issues anymore but tRDRD/tWRRD_dr only work at 6. 1.53v allows me to run them at 5 but I have boot issues there. The key is find a balance between timings/voltage. 4666 17-17 for me is only stable with slopes. The thing is that I haven't found the perfect Vdimm yet.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> @PhoenixMDA
> 
> At 1.52v 4600 17-17 I don't have boot issues anymore but tRDRD/tWRRD_dr only work at 6. 1.53v allows me to run them at 5 but I have boot issues there. The key is find a balance between timings/voltage. 4666 17-17 for me is only stable with slopes. The thing is that I haven't found the perfect Vdimm yet.


By my old Sticks i have take 4666CL17-17 with 1,54V Boot Voltage and 1,535V by load system with slope´s without slope´s 1,57V. 
4600CL17-17 with auto slope´s was 1,545V.My old Kit has no problem with slope´s to drive tWRRD_dr on 5 or 4 but with no performance gain it slow´s then down in perfomance.


----------



## Gen.

*The Pook *
Overall, not bad. tRFC at the very end.
A few more questions:
1) What are the processor and memory settings in the form of voltages? is 130% worth + 500KHz?
2) What kind of cooling do you have?
3) At the end, the tRFC will be around 264-272-280. I would put 280 and not steam.

But I would take the opinion tWTR_S=3/tWTR_L=8/tWR =16/tRTP=8/tWRPRE=34/tRDPRE=8.


----------



## The Pook

Gen. said:


> *The Pook *
> Overall, not bad. tRFC at the very end.
> A few more questions:
> 1) What are the processor and memory settings in the form of voltages? is 130% worth + 500KHz?
> 2) What kind of cooling do you have?
> 3) At the end, the tRFC will be around 264-272-280. I would put 280 and not steam.


Liquid Freezer 360, CPU is at 5.0 1.3v and 48x cache, RAM is @ 1.54v vDIMM, 1.3v VCCIO/SA. 

not really sure what you mean by #1, 130% of what? 



Gen. said:


> But I would take the opinion tWTR_S=3/tWTR_L=8/tWR =16/tRTP=8/tWRPRE=34/tRDPRE=8.


any reason if I'm stable lower? or do you just mean if I go >4266?


----------



## Gen.

*The Pook*
DRAM Current Capability [130%]
DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]




The Pook said:


> any reason if I'm stable lower


It doesn't make sense. More VCCIO / VCCSA may be required with 0 performance gain


Do you have a memory blower and what are the temperatures? What sticks do you use?


----------



## The Pook

Gen. said:


> *The Pook*
> DRAM Current Capability [130%]
> DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
> Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]
> 
> It doesn't make sense. More VCCIO / VCCSA may be required with 0 performance gain
> 
> 
> Do you have a memory blower and what are the temperatures? What sticks do you use?


I'll give it a go tomorrow, about done for the day 🙃 

but RAM is F4-4266C17D-32GVKB and I've got a fan but it doesn't really work _that_ well. Normal use is <40c but GSAT gets up to 45-47c. 

Think it just fights with my rad, and the way my 24-pin is routed it can't sit any closer to the RAM.


----------



## YoungChris

PhoenixMDA said:


> By my old Sticks i have take 4666CL17-17 with 1,54V Boot Voltage and 1,535V by load system with slope´s without slope´s 1,57V.
> 4600CL17-17 with auto slope´s was 1,545V.My old Kit has no problem with slope´s to drive tWRRD_dr on 5 or 4 but with no performance gain it slow´s then down in perfomance.


Do you have a good source for how to mess with slopes? I am curious if it is remotely important for competitive OC/non-daily settings.


----------



## Astral85

Gen. said:


> *Astral85 I welcome you here. You have poor workout settings and other timings. Would you like to try 4000 16-16 or higher?*


What am I doing wrong? My kit is 32GB 4x8GB 3466Mhz (XMP) Samsung b-die. Do you think these will do 4000+?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YoungChris said:


> Do you have a good source for how to mess with slopes? I am curious if it is remotely important for competitive OC/non-daily settings.


No im testing the right one,perhaps it´s possible to read them out from Bios, i think asus can do this.
With the right slope´s it´s for me possible to boot higher as normal possible or like i can do with a really lucky boot without higher IO/SA.


----------



## alexbrad

Astral85 said:


> What am I doing wrong? My kit is 32GB 4x8GB 3466Mhz (XMP) Samsung b-die. Do you think these will do 4000+?


wait a little longer for some good bios for XIII, although I kinda lost my hope...


----------



## Astral85

alexbrad said:


> wait a little longer for some good bios for XIII, although I kinda lost my hope...


Are you using an XIII? What is the issue do you think?


----------



## robalm

My bench (aida64 memory bench) ramoverclock profiles in bios have turned out super unstable.
The only thing i can think of is that is really warm now the room temp is about 5c hotter then the last time i run them.
Can this be the problem?

I left the window open over night and re-run the last profile that BSOD and it now passed aida64 memory bench (i got the room temp down 2-3c).


----------



## YaqY

robalm said:


> My bench (aida64 memory bench) ramoverclock profiles in bios have turned out super unstable.
> The only thing i can think of is that is really warm now the room temp is about 5c hotter then the last time i run them.
> Can this be the problem?
> 
> I left the window open over night and re-run the last profile that BSOD and it now passed aida64 memory bench (i got the room temp down 2-3c).


Yes ram can become unstable when too warm or the cpu can become unstable when it is too warm. Don’t test your overclocks with best case temperature scenarios or you will likely have issues when temps rise.


----------



## robalm

YaqY said:


> Yes ram can become unstable when too warm or the cpu can become unstable when it is too warm. Don’t test your overclocks with best case temperature scenarios or you will likely have issues when temps rise.


Thanks, yes the cpu temp was mutch hotter then before the summer heat. 
But the cpu is not overklocked so i don't think thats the problem.
The profile was not stable before but it could run aida64


----------



## The Pook

ran 4 hours, seems stable 










might try 4400 16-17-17 later but happy for now. already tried 4400 and 4300 without changing anything just for ****s and giggles but no luck.


----------



## shenosuke

Hello guys , i have a question.

I use 4 single rank sticks micron edie (2 ballistix 3000mhz mixed with 2 ballistix 3200mhz, @4000mhz ) , can i set all tertiary timings DRs to 1? ( will it make any difference or doesn't matter?)

Here my results and my timings.


----------



## YaqY

shenosuke said:


> Hello guys , i have a question.
> 
> I use 4 single rank sticks micron edie, can i set all tertiary timings DRs to 1? ( will it make any difference or doesn't matter?)


Makes no difference on single rank sticks. The DD terts will though,


----------



## shocker94

Is there a way to achieve better speed with poor IMC? My CPU, 10850k, can't hold more than 4100mhz with vccio/sa 1.35v. I'm just curios, if there aren't ways, i'll leave at 4100 cl17 1.45v.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Waspinator

With bad IMC I would go for better latency, like 4000-4100 C16.


----------



## shocker94

Waspinator said:


> With bad IMC I would go for better latency, like 4000-4100 C16.


I'll try. Thank your.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Waspinator

The Pook said:


> I'll give it a go tomorrow, about done for the day 🙃
> 
> but RAM is F4-4266C17D-32GVKB and I've got a fan but it doesn't really work _that_ well. Normal use is <40c but GSAT gets up to 45-47c.
> 
> Think it just fights with my rad, and the way my 24-pin is routed it can't sit any closer to the RAM.
> 
> View attachment 2514769


How do you fix a fan in this position, from this picture it looks like it's just floating in the air. I have it in drive cage, but not much air gets to DIMMs, probably only 60/65°C difference, have to test it.
What would I gain with 15°C less? I would say higher stable voltage, now it stops at 1.52V. Though single rank was at 45°C and highest stable was also 1.52V, so I don't know about that.
In best case probably 4300 instead of 4266 and tREFI 40000 instead of 17000.


----------



## The Pook

Waspinator said:


> How do you fix a fan in this position, from this picture it looks like it's just floating in the air. I have it in drive cage, but not much air gets to DIMMs, probably only 60/65°C difference, have to test it.
> What would I gain with 15°C less? I would say higher stable voltage, now it stops at 1.52V. Though single rank was at 45°C and highest stable was also 1.52V, so I don't know about that.
> In best case probably 4300 instead of 4266 and tREFI 40000 instead of 17000.




















DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095)


New Version 2.0 of the comfortable Pc Dimastech FlexFan to support and move your fan 120x120 without interfering disassembly fast Components hardware.The newest DimasTech FlexFan enable your fans to be suspended above the Components H




modmymods.com


----------



## Gen.

The Pook said:


> ran 4 hours, seems stable
> 
> View attachment 2514876
> 
> 
> might try 4400 16-17-17 later but happy for now. already tried 4400 and 4300 without changing anything just for ****s and giggles but no luck.


Looks great! I'm happy for you! Now you can check the TM5 Extreme1 / Karhu and lower the tRFC to ~ 280. tRDWR_dg / sg / dr = 11/11/11 can be loaded and stable?


----------



## The Pook

Gen. said:


> Looks great! I'm happy for you! Now you can check the TM5 Extreme1 / Karhu and lower the tRFC to ~ 280. tRDWR_dg / sg / dr = 11/11/11 can be loaded and stable?


already tested (but 320 tRFC) for an hour this morning and it seemed okay but I'll test it longer tomorrow morning. it gets way too hot in the room to test during the day 🙃 










thanks for the help


----------



## Gen.

Hope you enjoyed my work. Also, I would advise you to put the voltage on the chipset 1V, instead of 1.05 for the car. 70 degrees is a serious temperature ... On hero 12, in my heat it keeps about 50 degrees.


----------



## The Pook

it's from using Thunderbolt, if I disable Thunderbolt in the BIOS it's about the same as yours.


----------



## hl55

Hello, I've got a 2x8GB kit of Viper Steel 4400 C19 (PVS416G440C9K), and I've settled on the current timings to be used as a daily for 5+ years. Without changing/upping the voltages too much, are there any tweaks I could make to these timings to gain more performance, or bring down the latency a little? VCCIO/SA both at 1.21v, 1.47 DRAM.
















tREFI could go higher, but I'll keep it at 32k for now. tRDRD_sg/tWRWR_sg won't go below 7 without causing instant blue screens or memory errors, even after setting everything else on Auto or throwing tons of voltage at them. TXP is 4 with PPD 0 in BIOS. Does TXPDLL lower latency? Any other obscure BIOS settings for more performance? 
I've also compared the bandwidth with most secondary/all tertiary timings set on Auto, tightening each one individually and I only gained about 500-1500 MB/s at most across the board. Is there something limiting the performance or is 63/63/59 about right for 4200 C16? Thanks!


----------



## The Pook

pulling my hair out, I've saved 2 profiles at 4266 that were tested stable for 4+ hours in GSAT/TM5 but the next day or after a reboot with zero changes it'll throw errors after <5 minutes.


----------



## itssladenlol

The Pook said:


> pulling my hair out, I've saved 2 profiles at 4266 that were tested stable for 4+ hours in GSAT/TM5 but the next day or after a reboot with zero changes it'll throw errors after <5 minutes.


Thats normal, bitlines train different every boot, Same for RTL's/iol's if not Set manually.


----------



## The Pook

I think I figured it out, apparently I just had a slightly too aggressive vCore offset.

not really sure why it passed >4 hour tests before but I dialed it back a few notches and it seems ok now


----------



## YaqY

The Pook said:


> I think I figured it out, apparently I just had a slightly too aggressive vCore offset.
> 
> not really sure why it passed >4 hour tests before but I dialed it back a few notches and it seems ok now


You will need more vcore to pass cpu stress tests after a ram overclock. You will also notice the cpu pulls more current in larger data sets.


----------



## Hequaqua

The Pook said:


> I think I figured it out, apparently I just had a slightly too aggressive vCore offset.
> 
> not really sure why it passed >4 hour tests before but I dialed it back a few notches and it seems ok now


How do you like the 10850k?


----------



## The Pook

Hequaqua said:


> How do you like the 10850k?


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

only upgraded because I had to, and only went with a 10850K because it was in stock and cheap. would've went with a 5900/5950X but they were well over MSRP at the time.


----------



## Hequaqua

I hear ya....I have the 10700k. I thought about going to the 10850k just because it's 10c.....shame they didn't offer 10c on 11th gen w/PCIe 4.....


----------



## The Pook

Hequaqua said:


> shame they didn't offer 10c on 11th gen


would've got one if they did 😕


----------



## Hequaqua

The Pook said:


> would've got one if they did 😕


Me too.....might get the 10850k anyway.....don't need the speed of PCIe 4.0 really. lol


----------



## Kaimeron

Hello fellow overclockers, 

I am running 32GB dual rank b die 4400c17 trident z ram kit. Would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me some tips. I was wondering what I could do further to get closer to the 35-37ns latency mark. DRAM, VCCIO and VCSSA is close to the limit I would like to set. I am not sure how safe setting VCSSA at 1.4 + would be. I play a lot of warzone and the game is known to cook the cpu, gpu and ram at the same time. The chip is SP82 rated.

Thanks!


----------



## The Pook

The Pook said:


> pulling my hair out, I've saved 2 profiles at 4266 that were tested stable for 4+ hours in GSAT/TM5 but the next day or after a reboot with zero changes it'll throw errors after <5 minutes.





The Pook said:


> I think I figured it out, apparently I just had a slightly too aggressive vCore offset.
> 
> not really sure why it passed >4 hour tests before but I dialed it back a few notches and it seems ok now


I lied, it ran 4 hours last night but this morning it's back to failing within 10 minutes in GSAT again


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Kaimeron
Do memory training roundtrip.And here look at the timings.CL17-17 or CL17-18 needs lower Voltage,
if you can´t do in higher frequency you musst change to CL16-17 or CL16-18.
The screen is only min VDimm, in 24/7 you will need more and also a question how good the bin is.Test arround 1,48-1,59V 4500-4700.
And the sub´s i have on 5 right side the most need´s on 6.


----------



## fray_bentos

The Pook said:


> I lied, it ran 4 hours last night but this morning it's back to failing within 10 minutes in GSAT again


Would it be so bad if you dropped back to 4200 from 4266?


----------



## The Pook

fray_bentos said:


> Would it be so bad if you dropped back to 4200 from 4266?


yes


----------



## fray_bentos

The Pook said:


> yes


Poor Pooky Wooky.


----------



## Kaimeron

PhoenixMDA said:


> @Kaimeron
> Do memory training roundtrip.And here look at the timings.CL17-17 or CL17-18 needs lower Voltage,
> if you can´t do in higher frequency you musst change to CL16-17 or CL16-18.
> The screen is only min VDimm, in 24/7 you will need more and also a question how good the bin is.Test arround 1,48-1,59V 4500-4700.
> And the sub´s i have on 5 right side the most need´s on 6.
> View attachment 2515355


Ill give it a go later tonight/tomorrow. What bios you running on the z490 apex btw? I have the latest non beta, is it the recommended one? Those are some amazing OCs! Well done mate! I'm not sure how I can do memory training roundtrip. Any short guides/explanation I can find? I don't think I can really push past 1.52 in warzone, 1.55+ will be too much especially in the summer despite living in the UK (we get hot summers now lol). With current voltages (dram,io,sa) I tried to lower timings before of tCL, tRP, tRCD but gave me errors in OCCT quite quickly. Do the tertiary timings on the right affect latency at all? According to github its only main primary and secondary that affects latency, also REFI and TRFC. 

Thanks for you help! Appreciated.


----------



## Waspinator

What's with ASUS and those high 120 RTLs anyway, on MSI it's sub 70 by default, I don't even bother with RTL training.
I would also go straight 17 primaries if possible.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Kaimeron said:


> Ill give it a go later tonight/tomorrow. What bios you running on the z490 apex btw? I have the latest non beta, is it the recommended one? Those are some amazing OCs! Well done mate! I'm not sure how I can do memory training roundtrip. Any short guides/explanation I can find? I don't think I can really push past 1.52 in warzone, 1.55+ will be too much especially in the summer despite living in the UK (we get hot summers now lol). With current voltages (dram,io,sa) I tried to lower timings before of tCL, tRP, tRCD but gave me errors in OCCT quite quickly. Do the tertiary timings on the right affect latency at all? According to github its only main primary and secondary that affects latency, also REFI and TRFC.
> 
> Thanks for you help! Appreciated.


You see all necessary in my screen and Roundtrip is in memory training options, 4500-4600 is possible under air, an Fan over the dimms helps.
You find all important Informations in the thread

I think its Important to learn/read not only Set values.


----------



## robalm

The Pook said:


> I lied, it ran 4 hours last night but this morning it's back to failing within 10 minutes in GSAT again


My 4266mhz profile also got very unstable, but it seems that the problem is the room temp is now about 4-5c warmer.
Maybe same for you?


----------



## The Pook

robalm said:


> My 4266mhz profile also got very unstable, but it seems that the problem is the room temp is now about 4-5c warmer.
> Maybe same for you?


temps haven't gone up and they've been pretty consistent, ~45c. 

bumped up VCCIO/SA/vDIMM to rule that out and it's about to finish a 4-hour GSAT run. just hard to know if it actually fixed the problem until I reboot a few times and see if it stays that way.


----------



## Waspinator

Intel Core i9-11900K Review - World's Fastest Gaming Processor?


The Intel Core i9-11900K is the company's Rocket Lake flagship. It uses the new Cypress Cove architecture and includes support for new instruction sets like AVX512 and DLBoost to speed up AI calculations. We run the processor through our new test suite and also take a closer look at gaming...




www.techpowerup.com






> POST times have always been good with Intel, but I'm now sometimes sitting at A2 (VGA) for 20 seconds, and there's occasionally a double boot when changing a BIOS setting, items we criticized AMD for in the past. This whole experience reminds me of the first generation of Ryzen.


Is double boot really a Z590 problem, or is it just MSI Z590 boards that have problem with this? This is the only place I found that mentioned this problem.
There's double boot (or even triple on my V1.20 BIOS) every time I change RAM speed and I think also CPU setting like multiplier. Anyway, MSI Z490 didn't have this problem. But I won't go back just because of this problem, I think I won't go much in BIOS anymore anyway as I tried everything already.
Not much benefits of Z590 otherwise, I thought memory OC would be better, but I actually require more voltage, even up to 0.03V. Average difference and what I use now, 4266 CL16, is only 0.01V, so no biggie. But that may be down to board to board variance, I only had these 2 boards, so I don't know how much they actually differ.


----------



## Gen.

PhoenixMDA said:


> View attachment 2515355


Hello Friend. Can I see the txt file (Ctrl + F2 in BIOS) of your settings? I would be grateful!


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Gen. said:


> Hello Friend. Can I see the txt file (Ctrl + F2 in BIOS) of your settings? I would be grateful!


n.p. that is exact the setting from memtest.


----------



## Astral85

Would anyone have any idea why I can't get my kit to 4000Mhz? All the timings are on auto and tRAS has been loosened from 36 to 38. 1.45v DRAM.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Astral85
what is the q-code before you get 55?


----------



## Waspinator

I'll answer myself, for MSI boards latest BIOS go to their forum:





MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com





Much better than those official BIOSes. I have V1.42 as I didn't check V1.43 is already out. No more double or triple boot (problem with all official BIOSes), terciaries are training fine (problem with latest official V1.30), PCIe at 3.0 (problem with first 2 offical BIOSes, was only 1.1 which is unprecedent).

I'm actually happy with this board now. But Z590 is for sure a beta product, like Techpowerup said. Luckily MSI finally fixed everything, I'm actually surprised they even know of every problem. But when they make official list of changes, I guess it would look too amateur if they list what they actually had to fix.

To train (hopefully) better RTLs, just change speed down and up again. For me best on 4266 CL16 is 62/64/7/8.

I bought that fan adapter The Pook linked, will see in a few weeks if I can get any better results. Mostly it's just tREFI that doesn't like high temp. Now I'm at 38.1 ns, last time I tested tREFI 65535 I gained 0.7 ns, so I expect at most 37.5 ns with a fan.
Tomorrow it will be hottest, 32°C, so I best test stability again. 15h-19h is the hottest inside.


----------



## Astral85

PhoenixMDA said:


> @Astral85
> what is the q-code before you get 55?


I don't think I get q-code 55.... Isn't q-code 55 only if the memory fails memory training or something like that? Windows is booting, it's just giving errors in OCCT. I ran TM5 and it passed but it was only a 4 min test...


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Ah ok, i would test over Sub's, lower subs are not in every case better, often its worse as faster settings.
Next is very time low up core speed to be shure that its really memory.
Next is check up io/sa manual what you really need and then raise up 1-2 steps and vdimm check perhaps you really need more.

Not so good bins can need up to 1,5V and CL16-16 or [email protected] 1,5V can bei unpossible.
So its was with my 4x8gb gskill 4266CL19-19 bin.


----------



## Astral85

PhoenixMDA said:


> Ah ok, i would test over Sub's, lower subs are not in every case better, often its worse as faster settings.
> Next is very time low up core speed to be shure that its really memory.
> Next is check up io/sa manual what you really need and then raise up 1-2 steps and vdimm check perhaps you really need more.
> 
> Not so good bins can need up to 1,5V and CL16-16 or [email protected] 1,5V can bei unpossible.
> So its was with my 4x8gb gskill 4266CL19-19 bin.


What do you mean test over the sub's? They are all currently Auto predicted. All I've done is set the primaries. XMP for this kit is 16-18-36 3466Mhz. It's 4x8GB too BTW.

The rest of the BIOS is on all Auto settings (for testing). Only thing I've done is enabled MCE and set DRAM (1.4V) and IO/SA voltages manually. I already tried SA 1.37V and it didn't help with the OCCT errors. IO is set to 1.3V.

Edit: Sorry tRRD_L/S are set manually to 6 and 4. Perhaps those are too tight? Isn't tCWL supposed to equal tCL? Perhaps tCWL @ 15 is my problem?


----------



## Waspinator

Don't use odd tCWL, try 16. Keep tRRD_S at 6 until you rule out everything else.
You need to test what your RAM and IMC are capable of. You have to use some common sense doing that. For RAM, voltages required for 3866 16-18-18 and 4000 17-18-18 would certainly help figuring how much you need for 4000 16-18-18. If I don't have any idea how much it needs, I start with 1.50V. If it doesn't get any better going to 1.52V, then ICs are the problem.
For IMC, 1.25/1.20V is usually enough for 4400 CL17. I use that if I don't know how much I need. You don't need extreme high like 1.30-1.35V for only 4000. For 4000 CL16 1.15/1.15V should be more than enough, but lower only once your RAM is stable.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Astral85
You must test what is possible at your own, it give´s for every memory Kit a good working windows.
TCWL you must test what is the best at cl16 15/16 at cl17 it´s 16.
Most important also trdrd_sg and also the other timings to slow is bad or dont work, to fast and the same.
Here as example in pitcure my Patriot 4400CL19 that can also do 4400CL16-16,
but also my worse kit of 4xGSkill 4299CL19-19 Bin that cant do *4000CL16-16 up to 1,5V* was able to do the same timings at cl17-19 memtest stable up to [email protected],5V









And the worse Kit was also able to boot up [email protected] in lose timings


----------



## Astral85

Very helpful posts thanks guys. I will keep you posted


----------



## Gen.

I will help @Astral85 . Do not worry. We communicate in private messages. You know that nothing is impossible for me.


----------



## SgtRotty

PhoenixMDA said:


> @Astral85
> You must test what is possible at your own, it give´s for every memory Kit a good working windows.
> TCWL you must test what is the best at cl16 15/16 at cl17 it´s 16.
> Most important also trdrd_sg and also the other timings to slow is bad or dont work, to fast and the same.
> Here as example in pitcure my Patriot 4400CL19 that can also do 4400CL16-16,
> but also my worse kit of 4xGSkill 4299CL19-19 Bin that cant do *4000CL16-16 up to 1,5V* was able to do the same timings at cl17-19 memtest stable up to [email protected],5V
> View attachment 2515687
> 
> 
> And the worse Kit was also able to boot up [email protected] in lose timings
> View attachment 2515689


Do you still run bios 0602 presently? I have the same setup, I cant boot anything past 4300 on 1502 bios. Im running 4x8gb gskill royals 3600c14. Awesome cpu u have!


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SgtRotty said:


> Do you still run bios 0602 presently? I have the same setup, I cant boot anything past 4300 on 1502 bios. Im running 4x8gb gskill royals 3600c14. Awesome cpu u have!


This hardware has get my best friend, but it run´s allways with 0602 Bios was the best one if you set many value´s manuell, a other very good bios is the 1302.
That was the best bios version and i have tested up to 1502.

From Out of the box stability i think is the 1302 the best.


----------



## SgtRotty

PhoenixMDA said:


> This hardware has get my best friend, but it run´s allways with 0602 Bios was the best one if you set many value´s manuell, a other very good bios is the 1302.
> That was the best bios version and i have tested up to 1502.
> 
> From Out of the box stability i think is the 1302 the best.


Thx I shall try and see what happens!


----------



## CoraDaelu

Hello i'm running 4x8gb viper patriot bdie at 4133 mhz cl16 on z590 aorus master, would appreciate a lot it if someone could help me a little to reduce latency to 38-37ns, thank you!


----------



## newls1

Trying to find my latency loss issue going from z490 to z590 i lost 4ns. On my MSI Z490 tomahawk I was getting 36ns Latency and on Z590 im getting 39.9-40.2ns. I know its not a big deal, but im just curious why? Hard for me to explain this via "words" but ill try my best...

After I entered all my mem settings on the Z490 Tomahawk, I disabled mem training as it would change my RTL's and IOL's usually every other boot, so I disabled it when It landed on the following
RTL (CHA) D0 - 72
D1 - 60
RTL (CHB) D0 - 72
D1 - 61
IO-L (CHA) D0 - 4
D1 - 3
IO-L (CHB) D0 - 4
D1 - 3
THIS GOT ME 100% STABILITY AND 36ns latency

Now on this MSI Gaming Force Z590 board I set the exact same mem settings and then let it boot several times to train, then disabled mem training, and i get the following









so as you can see, the only difference is the RTL (CHA) D0 is 2 points LOWER @ 70 and still getting 40ns.. Ive put it at the exact same "72" and the Z490 board and latency went up to 41.x, so I left it where the board wants to be @ 70.. Im just curious is z590 just not as "tight" as z490? Oh, AND IM USING A 2X16GB GSKILL B-DIE CL14 3600 KIT... Love these sticks! There @ 4030 @ 1.48v CL15/15/15/32 Stable.......

You see anything I can adjust to try to gain my 3-4ns back? Thank you?!


----------



## Waspinator

CoraDaelu said:


> Hello i'm running 4x8gb viper patriot bdie at 4133 mhz cl16 on z590 aorus master, would appreciate a lot it if someone could help me a little to reduce latency to 38-37ns, thank you!


Secondaries apart from tCWL are all very high, lower one by one until not stable.



newls1 said:


> Trying to find my latency loss issue going from z490 to z590 i lost 4ns. On my MSI Z490 tomahawk I was getting 36ns Latency and on Z590 im getting 39.9-40.2ns. I know its not a big deal, but im just curious why? Hard for me to explain this via "words" but ill try my best...


I had/have the same 2 boards, only Z590 Gaming Carbon which is basically the same as Gaming Force. On 4400 16-16-16 just primaries it was 44.4 and 44.6 ns. I think if same values, latency should be similar.
I don't know how you train, with Round Trip Latency? I tried that and like you say, it's different every time you boot and it is not very stable, I only got to 23min in Karhu. I don't think this is meant for 24/7, but only for benching. When I disable it, it goes back to the same values as if I didn't train, on 4266 CL16 from 67-62-67-64-4-7-4-8 to 67-68-67-68-4-13-4-12.
I get 39.2 ns with RTL disabled and 38.1 ns with RTL enabled. Only 16667 tREFI due to heat problems, so I can achieve 37.5 ns for benching no problem.

tRFC 350 is high, you can't lower that? I'm using 299 for 4266, so you can try 280 for 4000. 340 by my experience is more for worse bins like 3200 CL14 and 3600 CL16.

When I'm already at bins, when deciding between 3600 14-15-15 and 4000 16-16-16, they're quite similar, but if you already know you will run CL16, 4000 CL16 might be a little better. Now they're both around 310€ and 3600 14-14-14 is 360€. I don't know if it's worth the 50€ price difference. It's hard to say with such loose bins with almost 0.1V headroom on XMP.


----------



## fray_bentos

newls1 said:


> Trying to find my latency loss issue going from z490 to z590 i lost 4ns. On my MSI Z490 tomahawk I was getting 36ns Latency and on Z590 im getting 39.9-40.2ns. I know its not a big deal, but im just curious why? Hard for me to explain this via "words" but ill try my best...
> 
> After I entered all my mem settings on the Z490 Tomahawk, I disabled mem training as it would change my RTL's and IOL's usually every other boot, so I disabled it when It landed on the following
> RTL (CHA) D0 - 72
> D1 - 60
> RTL (CHB) D0 - 72
> D1 - 61
> IO-L (CHA) D0 - 4
> D1 - 3
> IO-L (CHB) D0 - 4
> D1 - 3
> THIS GOT ME 100% STABILITY AND 36ns latency
> 
> Now on this MSI Gaming Force Z590 board I set the exact same mem settings and then let it boot several times to train, then disabled mem training, and i get the following
> View attachment 2515899
> 
> 
> so as you can see, the only difference is the RTL (CHA) D0 is 2 points LOWER @ 70 and still getting 40ns.. Ive put it at the exact same "72" and the Z490 board and latency went up to 41.x, so I left it where the board wants to be @ 70.. Im just curious is z590 just not as "tight" as z490? Oh, AND IM USING A 2X16GB GSKILL B-DIE CL14 3600 KIT... Love these sticks! There @ 4030 @ 1.48v CL15/15/15/32 Stable.......
> 
> You see anything I can adjust to try to gain my 3-4ns back? Thank you?!


Have you tried PPD=0. Did you have that set on the Z490 and not the Z590? Scroll right to the bottom.


----------



## newls1

fray_bentos said:


> Have you tried PPD=0. Did you have that set on the Z490 and not the Z590. Scroll right to the bottom.


what is PPD? Not seeing this....


----------



## fray_bentos

newls1 said:


> what is PPD? Not seeing this....


Scroll right to the bottom of your RAM timing settings in BIOS. PPD = 0 disables power down and shaves 4 ns off my latency (if you are comfortable with power saving being disabled). I'm on MSI too.


----------



## newls1

fray_bentos said:


> Scroll right to the bottom of your RAM timing settings in BIOS. PPD = 0 disables power down and shaves 4 ns off my latency (if you are comfortable with power saving being disabled). I'm on MSI too.


will go and try, THANK YOU SIR 

*EDIT*** YOU GOT IT, YOU ARE AMAZING... THANK YOU! IM BACK AT 37ns *


----------



## CoraDaelu

Waspinator said:


> Secondaries apart from tCWL are all very high, lower one by one until not stable.
> 
> 
> I had/have the same 2 boards, only Z590 Gaming Carbon which is basically the same as Gaming Force. On 4400 16-16-16 just primaries it was 44.4 and 44.6 ns. I think if same values, latency should be similar.
> I don't know how you train, with Round Trip Latency? I tried that and like you say, it's different every time you boot and it is not very stable, I only got to 23min in Karhu. I don't think this is meant for 24/7, but only for benching. When I disable it, it goes back to the same values as if I didn't train, on 4266 CL16 from 67-62-67-64-4-7-4-8 to 67-68-67-68-4-13-4-12.
> I get 39.2 ns with RTL disabled and 38.1 ns with RTL enabled. Only 16667 tREFI due to heat problems, so I can achieve 37.5 ns for benching no problem.
> 
> tRFC 350 is high, you can't lower that? I'm using 299 for 4266, so you can try 280 for 4000. 340 by my experience is more for worse bins like 3200 CL14 and 3600 CL16.
> 
> When I'm already at bins, when deciding between 3600 14-15-15 and 4000 16-16-16, they're quite similar, but if you already know you will run CL16, 4000 CL16 might be a little better. Now they're both around 310€ and 3600 14-14-14 is 360€. I don't know if it's worth the 50€ price difference. It's hard to say with such loose bins with almost 0.1V headroom on XMP.



This was the most that can lower the secondary times and have the system stable but I don't see much improvement in latency, i'm missing something?


----------



## fenriquez

Has anyone been able to get 4500mhz 16-16-16 timings with tight subs stable? I have only been able to get 4500mhz 16-17-17 timings with tight subs stable so far


----------



## fenriquez

CoraDaelu said:


> This was the most that can lower the secondary times and have the system stable but I don't see much improvement in latency, i'm missing something?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2515944


Try manually lowering yours rtls proportional to lower iols to 7-7 or 8-8. If you can lower trtp to 6 and twrrd_sg/dg to 28/23 though since u said u can’t tighten subs anymore to get stable I would focus on lowering those rtls you should stabilize with at least proportional rtls relative to 8-8 or 7-7 iols set and you should see a good latency decrease. Setting ppd=0 can also help as per a few posts above.


----------



## Waspinator

newls1 said:


> EDIT*** YOU GOT IT, YOU ARE AMAZING... THANK YOU! IM BACK AT 37ns


So you had PPD 0 already on Z490? What about tXP, you lowered that? Altough I didn't noticed even -0.1 ns from auto 15 to lowest stable 6.

So can you help me to achieve 37 ns? What is your exact number, can you post AIDA64 screen? 4000 15-15 should be same latency as 4266 16-16, but I just can't boot CL15 3700+, should be mobo problem as I tried 2 different kits. And 4266 CL16 is better anyway.
Why did you even change the board?

I actually think I can get 37 - 37.5 ns with 40000-65535 tREFI and RTL training, I will at least make AIDA64 screen today. But both aren't stable for me. First due to temp, RTLs I don't know how to get stable. There was talk how to train them around 10-20 pages ago, but I only remembered to enable Round Trip Latency. But that is different every time you boot and is thus impossible to get stable and is not suitable for 24/7.
EDIT: Here it is explained:








*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Yes it's the F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA. Im having a hard time with the RTL-ios and terciarias Any help? can you even change them? I can't POST if I set them manually, no matter what values I use. BTW, you can get the 0902 beta BIOS here.




www.overclock.net





Oh, I just rembered reading few pages ago, did you increase cache to 4.8 GHz?


----------



## Astral85

So I've got 3866Mhz to pass OCCT AVX mem test @ 17-19-37 (30 mins). Tried 17-18-37 on the SSE test and got 1 error around the 28 min mark. 

What do you guys suggest I try next? DRAM is @ 1.47v, IO 1.25v, SA 1.30v. All other RAM timings are on the XMP 1 profile.


----------



## fray_bentos

newls1 said:


> will go and try, THANK YOU SIR
> 
> *EDIT*** YOU GOT IT, YOU ARE AMAZING... THANK YOU! IM BACK AT 37ns *


No, you're amazing. _Wink_


----------



## Astral85

OK OCCT SEE now passed 30 mins with the same settings. Makes me wonder whether OCCT picks up false positives.


----------



## CoraDaelu

fenriquez said:


> Try manually lowering yours rtls proportional to lower iols to 7-7 or 8-8. If you can lower trtp to 6 and twrrd_sg/dg to 28/23 though since u said u can’t tighten subs anymore to get stable I would focus on lowering those rtls you should stabilize with at least proportional rtls relative to 8-8 or 7-7 iols set and you should see a good latency decrease. Setting ppd=0 can also help as per a few posts above.


Thanks for your reply, i will try to lowering rtls and iols now, i cannot find anywhere the "PPD" option in z590 aorus master to test it.


----------



## Nizzen

CoraDaelu said:


> Thanks for your reply, i will try to lowering rtls and iols now, i cannot find anywhere the "PPD" option in z590 aorus master to test it.


Gigabutt 😜


----------



## acoustic

Testing 4400 @ 17-17-17-32 / 1.55v VDIMM, 1.25v VCCSA/VCCIO (just so I know SA/IO won't be my point of failure). So far, 45min Anta777 stable.

I've got this weird thing where I can't post with 4400 if I use 100Mhz strap. 133Mhz strap posts fine, but swap to 100Mhz and it will fail to post. Weird!

I had to loosen my tWR to 12 (from 10). I had an error at about 35min with it at 10. Anyone have suggestions on where to tighten next?


----------



## sixty9sublime

acoustic said:


> Testing 4400 @ 17-17-17-32 / 1.55v VDIMM, 1.25v VCCSA/VCCIO (just so I know SA/IO won't be my point of failure). So far, 45min Anta777 stable.
> 
> I've got this weird thing where I can't post with 4400 if I use 100Mhz strap. 133Mhz strap posts fine, but swap to 100Mhz and it will fail to post. Weird!
> 
> I had to loosen my tWR to 12 (from 10). I had an error at about 35min with it at 10. Anyone have suggestions on where to tighten next?


Pretty sure 4400 is ideal for 133Mhz, even though 4266 + 133 = 3999. Who knows haha...

tFAW 16, tCWL 16, tRAS should be at 34-36 min for stability.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sixty9sublime said:


> Pretty sure 4400 is ideal for 133Mhz, even though 4266 + 133 = 3999. Who knows haha...
> 
> tFAW 16, tCWL 16, tRAS should be at 34-36 min for stability.


100:133 would require a lower multiplier ratio thus should be easier to run. Same as 4500 vs 4533.


----------



## sixty9sublime

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 100:133 would require a lower multiplier ratio thus should be easier to run. Same as 4500 vs 4533.


So are you saying the 100Mhz strap is easier to run in general or the other way around? Pardon my ignorance, have always wondered why people said running on 133Mhz was easier.

Edit: So 4400/133 = ~33, and 4400/100 = 44, so 133 would be easier to run as it has a lower multiple?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sixty9sublime said:


> So are you saying the 100Mhz strap is easier to run in general or the other way around? Pardon my ignorance, have always wondered why people said running on 133Mhz was easier.
> 
> Edit: So 4400/133 = ~33, and 4400/100 = 44, so 133 would be easier to run as it has a lower multiple?


100MHz base clock would be "100:100", "100:133" means 133MHz base clock. 133MHz base clock would be easier.

Yup, this multiplier trick is more obvious on the 11th gen.


----------



## robalm

Any one tested? They cost very little over here.








Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz Kit at Amazon.com


Buy Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz Kit: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





4400mhz cl 18 at 1.45v. But they are 18-26-26 for some reason.
The vipersteal are 19-19-19 at 4400mhz.
I don't know why that is, they are both samsung b-die.


----------



## acoustic

sixty9sublime said:


> Pretty sure 4400 is ideal for 133Mhz, even though 4266 + 133 = 3999. Who knows haha...
> 
> tFAW 16, tCWL 16, tRAS should be at 34-36 min for stability.


I had tCWL at 14 (was on auto) and tRAS at 32. Going to try your suggestions now with tCWL at 16 and tRAS at 36. Hopefully that's all it needs.

There's no reason I should have to re-tune my RTL/IOL right? They were tuned/tightened when I was running 4133 17-17-17-32

EDIT: Took a look at my RTL/IOL and for some reason I went from 8/8 on my IOL to 7/7. I think that may have been an issue (didn't even notice at first) as 8/8 was as tight as I could get them on 4133. I went from 23/21 to 22/20 on IO Compensation and they're back at 8 now. I'll see if that helps at all.

EDIT2: Hmm.. getting errors in first 2min of TM5 now. This would usually go 30-35min at a time. I wonder if it's because of tFAW at 16. Auto would set it super loose to 53 or something like that.

EDIT3: I just don't think my sticks are capable of 4400 17-17-17. They weren't the best bin of B-Die (3200CL15) so it's OK. I tried! Back to 4133, I think that's my limit, lol. Even with 1.55v and a cool basement, they don't want to play above 4133.

EDIT4: So far, managed to get 4266 17-17-17-32 test stable @ 1.52v vDIMM. Passed 2 1/2hrs of TM5 Anta777. Attached current settings. I'll work more on this at a later point. Will keep it to see if it's stable in gaming, etc.


----------



## sixty9sublime

acoustic said:


> I had tCWL at 14 (was on auto) and tRAS at 32. Going to try your suggestions now with tCWL at 16 and tRAS at 36. Hopefully that's all it needs.
> 
> There's no reason I should have to re-tune my RTL/IOL right? They were tuned/tightened when I was running 4133 17-17-17-32
> 
> EDIT: Took a look at my RTL/IOL and for some reason I went from 8/8 on my IOL to 7/7. I think that may have been an issue (didn't even notice at first) as 8/8 was as tight as I could get them on 4133. I went from 23/21 to 22/20 on IO Compensation and they're back at 8 now. I'll see if that helps at all.
> 
> EDIT2: Hmm.. getting errors in first 2min of TM5 now. This would usually go 30-35min at a time. I wonder if it's because of tFAW at 16. Auto would set it super loose to 53 or something like that.
> 
> EDIT3: I just don't think my sticks are capable of 4400 17-17-17. They weren't the best bin of B-Die (3200CL15) so it's OK. I tried! Back to 4133, I think that's my limit, lol. Even with 1.55v and a cool basement, they don't want to play above 4133.
> 
> EDIT4: So far, managed to get 4266 17-17-17-32 test stable @ 1.52v vDIMM. Passed 2 1/2hrs of TM5 Anta777. Attached current settings. I'll work more on this at a later point. Will keep it to see if it's stable in gaming, etc.


Your RTL/IOls are definitely off by a few. C17 should allow RTLs to be set around 64/65, and IOLs at 7/7. Most B-die can run tFAW of 16 easily, might require another look at your vdimm voltage. Looks like you're making progress!


----------



## Imprezzion

I was trying some new things skew and timing wise to see if I could get 4600C17 to do anything. So far I'm quite impressed to see it boot 4600 straight 17's with loose secondary and tertiary on 1.60v DRAM with just 1.35v SA 1.25v IO. It even trains sort of properly on MRC Auto + default RTL/IO.










Obviously I haven't stressed this at all, but it's a start as normally it wouldn't even pass Windows boot logo at these clocks / timings.
I am running 80-40-40 now but might have to tweak the ODT / skews a bit more if it is unstable. I should at least be able to get away with 4500-4533 C17 even if 4600 won't stabilize.

I kinda doubt I can get away with 1.60v and keeping them under temp instability point of my DIMM's (about 47-48c) but we shall see. Imma start TM5 Anta now and we'll see how far we get.

Ok not far. Raising VCCIO and SA made it error faster so I don't think more IO/SA will do any good. More vDimm isn't feasible at 1.60v so, time to tweak other things. Is it normal for ODT's to be this different in Auto between CHA D1 and CHB D1? Auto is 80-0-48 and 240-40-80 which is miles apart lol.


----------



## Astral85

I think we discussed this just recently... Why is it that clearing the CMOS allows a memory OC to run error free where it didn't on the last boot? Is it the training? Do I need more training options enabled to prevent this happening?


----------



## alexbrad

The Pook said:


> pulling my hair out, I've saved 2 profiles at 4266 that were tested stable for 4+ hours in GSAT/TM5 but the next day or after a reboot with zero changes it'll throw errors after <5 minutes.


I feel you man... Did you passed GSAT so far anyways?
See that you're on XIII, but paired with a 10th processor. I'm the same, I have Apex XIII & 10900K.
Wonder if actually someone really succeeded to pass GSAT on XIII... Bioses are still probably garbage, or could be that GSAT needs to be adjusted a bit?

Received these suckers today
F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA
Don't know why some retailers or on some forums it is stated that these are 10 layer stuff, last build 16.6.0.1 reports that are 8 layer though.









Anyways, left everything on auto, XMP, just played a bit with VRAM voltage - if left default 1.40V, it's actually read as 1.39-ish, small bump to 1.41 still does not help.
IA and SA left on auto







and GSAT error within minutes... =))







Had another kit before, F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK, did also not passed any GSAT, no matter if the voltages were left on auto or tuned, on Z490 had this kit working flawless on XMP and tuned setting, lower IO and SA etc... BUT passed TM5 with anta's profile.

With the new kit I did not try yet TM5, probably will leave them overnight following the next days.


----------



## The Pook

alexbrad said:


> I feel you man... Did you passed GSAT so far anyways?
> See that you're on XIII, but paired with a 10th processor. I'm the same, I have Apex XIII & 10900K.
> Wonder if actually someone really succeeded to pass GSAT on XIII... Bioses are still probably garbage, or could be that GSAT needs to be adjusted a bit?
> 
> Received these suckers today
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA
> Don't know why some retailers or on some forums it is stated that these are 10 layer stuff, last build 16.6.0.1 reports that are 8 layer though.
> View attachment 2516495
> 
> 
> Anyways, left everything on auto, XMP, just played a bit with VRAM voltage - if left default 1.40V, it's actually read as 1.39-ish, small bump to 1.41 still does not help.
> IA and SA left on auto
> View attachment 2516496
> 
> and GSAT error within minutes... =))
> View attachment 2516500
> 
> Had another kit before, F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK, did also not passed any GSAT, no matter if the voltages were left on auto or tuned, on Z490 had this kit working flawless on XMP and tuned setting, lower IO and SA etc... BUT passed TM5 with anta's profile.
> 
> With the new kit I did not try yet TM5, probably will leave them overnight following the next days.


it was just user error in my case, I just needed a touch more vCore and it's been fine. I can pass at least 4 hours GSAT just fine now.










forgot to scroll down HWInfo but VCCIO and SA @ 1.3v, vDIMM @ 1.55v. 

what BIOS are you on? I was stuck at 3733 on anything before the 0902 beta BIOS. the 0903 non-Beta BIOS was added a ~week ago. 






ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX｜Z590 Motherboard


ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX｜Z590 Motherboard



rog.asus.com


----------



## alexbrad

I tried lots of bios versions...
0903beta is the same as the 0903 "official" on Asus website...
not much is happening when "updating" from 0903 "beta" to 0903 "official", it's really short, compared when changing a bios from a version to another, there are changed lots of things, all areas are updating, aura stuff and so on, and few restarts in between...

these are the screens from "beta" and "official" versions...
even the release date is the same (21 may)
 
to be honest, it's no surprise from my side, Asus support is literally minimum at best to say the least, for Apex on the QVL there are some randomly kits thrown here and there, even quad kits (mobo is two slots ), also for Z490 they changed their mind with a bios version, stating now it's beta, then is final, other time removed a version completely eventually =))

yeah, I'm gonna give it a try to see if 1.30-ish V for IO/SA will actually do something, although I tried, gonna bump VCore a bit more etc, but not now...
really lost my patience already, they screwed up dual rank & stuff I think for this one...
I feel that I'm gonna smash this mobo with a hammer or something, literally money thrown down to the toilet


----------



## Astral85

I can't get these timings to do 3900Mhz stable. They are currently 3866Mhz stable. It seems like more DRAM voltage results in errors faster... Currently running IO - 1.25v SA - 1.33v DRAM 1.46v.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> I can't get these timings to do 3900Mhz stable. They are currently 3866Mhz stable. It seems like more DRAM voltage results in errors faster... Currently running IO - 1.25v SA - 1.33v DRAM 1.46v.
> 
> View attachment 2516730


What are your DIMM temps? More voltage = more heat = more errors when borderline stable.


----------



## Astral85

fray_bentos said:


> What are your DIMM temps? More voltage = more heat = more errors when borderline stable.


38-40C when hitting errors. I can run these timings at 3866 but I'm struggling to get 3900/4000Mhz. Tried various IO/SA voltages and DRAM voltages but can't find stability...


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> 38-40C when hitting errors. I can run these timings at 3866 but I'm struggling to get 3900/4000Mhz. Tried various IO/SA voltages and DRAM voltages but can't find stability...
> 
> View attachment 2516839


Given the not high temperatures that doesn't look like the problem. Though I do now see you are trying to run 4 DIMMS, which is always harder on the IMC. What can you hit with two DIMMS, and do you really need 32 GB?


----------



## Astral85

fray_bentos said:


> Given the not high temperatures that doesn't look like the problem. Though I do now see you are trying to run 4 DIMMS, which is always harder on the IMC. What can you hit with two DIMMS?


I've never tried two DIMMS. Is there any point in testing two DIMMS when ultimately I want the four?  I have heard that Quad is more harder on the IMC but don't understand the consequence... Is there anything that can help stability with 4 DIMMS or am I facing a IMC/frequency wall?


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> I've never tried two DIMMS. Is there any point in testing two DIMMS when ultimately I want the four?  I have heard that Quad is more harder on the IMC but don't understand the consequence... Is there anything that can help stability with 4 DIMMS or am I facing a IMC/frequency wall?


I'm not sure on that as I have never tried to run four. Which do you want more, higher overclock, or 32 GB? You could throw in the towel and get 2x 16GB dual rank DIMMS, though that would be being defeatist! Worth trying two DIMMS in the name of science. I guess if you still have problems it could point to timing issues rather than IMC limitation.


----------



## Astral85

fray_bentos said:


> I'm not sure on that as I have never tried to run four. Which do you want more, higher overclock, or 32 GB? You could throw in the towel and get 2x 16GB dual rank DIMMS, though that would be being defeatist! Worth trying two DIMMS in the name of science. I guess if you still have problems it could point to timing issues rather than IMC limitation.


I will try two DIMMS out of interest. I will do some research on quad DIMM overclocking as well. As for 32GB maybe I need to pay more attention to how useful this is vs 16GB for gaming and perhaps I will consider a 2 x 16 kit on my next platform upgrade. I do like the 4 rows of 40 LED's on the Dominator Platinum RGB. Guess you have to sacrifice some speed for that.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> I do like the 4 rows of 40 LED's on the Dominator Platinum RGB.


🌈Barf🌈 Hehe


----------



## Imprezzion

Heh yeah. People told me to turn off the RGB to reduce heat and marginally improve OC (not proven afaik) but yeah, you do not sacrifice da ARGEEBEE.

Meanwhile I'm still trying to get 4500C17 to run but no matter what I do it just will not do it lol. 4400C17 is easy and stable at relatively low voltages but the 100Mhz bump seems totally out of reach..


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Imprezzion said:


> Heh yeah. People told me to turn off the RGB to reduce heat and marginally improve OC (not proven afaik) but yeah, you do not sacrifice da ARGEEBEE.
> 
> Meanwhile I'm still trying to get 4500C17 to run but no matter what I do it just will not do it lol. 4400C17 is easy and stable at relatively low voltages but the 100Mhz bump seems totally out of reach..


Here the value´s with the most impact of stability at me the red, the green must be slower if i driver tCWL 14.
Slower is not in every case better, i must drive faster sub´s to be in a "working window" to be full stable incl. Gsat.
And the Vref is important, on Apex XII if you cant drive tRDRD_sg on 6 and you need 7 forget CL17.









P.S.
If the Voltage´s on Apex to high it´s more worse as better.


----------



## newls1

PhoenixMDA said:


> Here the value´s with the most impact of stability at me the red, the green must be slower if i driver tCWL 14.
> Slower is not in every case better, i must drive faster sub´s to be in a "working window" to be full stable incl. Gsat.
> And the Vref is important, on Apex XII if you cant drive tRDRD_sg on 6 and you need 7 forget CL17.
> View attachment 2516890
> 
> 
> P.S.
> If the Voltage´s on Apex to high it´s more worse as better.


your tRAS needs to be set to 36. (17+17+2 = tras)

Best guide ive found on the interwebs Comprehensive Memory Overclocking Guide


----------



## Nizzen

alexbrad said:


> I feel you man... Did you passed GSAT so far anyways?
> See that you're on XIII, but paired with a 10th processor. I'm the same, I have Apex XIII & 10900K.
> Wonder if actually someone really succeeded to pass GSAT on XIII... Bioses are still probably garbage, or could be that GSAT needs to be adjusted a bit?
> 
> Received these suckers today
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA
> Don't know why some retailers or on some forums it is stated that these are 10 layer stuff, last build 16.6.0.1 reports that are 8 layer though.
> View attachment 2516495
> 
> 
> Anyways, left everything on auto, XMP, just played a bit with VRAM voltage - if left default 1.40V, it's actually read as 1.39-ish, small bump to 1.41 still does not help.
> IA and SA left on auto
> View attachment 2516496
> 
> and GSAT error within minutes... =))
> View attachment 2516500
> 
> Had another kit before, F4-4000C19D-32GTZKK, did also not passed any GSAT, no matter if the voltages were left on auto or tuned, on Z490 had this kit working flawless on XMP and tuned setting, lower IO and SA etc... BUT passed TM5 with anta's profile.
> 
> With the new kit I did not try yet TM5, probably will leave them overnight following the next days.


The program is pretty much worthless. Wrong info all the time 

From g.skill website:


*Trident Z Means Overclocking*
Each memory kit contains specially screened ICs through G.SKILL's unparalleled selection process and a custom engineered *ten-layer PCB* offering maximum signal stability; and every single kit is rigorously tested for reliability, compatibility, and performance across a wide range of motherboards.









F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z RGB DDR4-4000 CL16-16-16-36 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) Featuring the award-winning Trident Z heatspreader design, the Trident Z RGB memory series combines vivid RGB lighting with awesome DDR4 DRAM performance.




www.gskill.com





Apex XIII bioses ain't garbage, the user oftenis to tune the memory the right way.
Userfailure is strong 

Sorry in advance


----------



## fenriquez

4500mhz 1.55 vDIMM 1.30 VCCIO 1.35 VCSSA Karhu 20k stable

This thread has helped me a lot, was finally able to break 70k with 4500mhz, thanks for all the tips and knowledge from this thread you guys are awesome.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

newls1 said:


> your tRAS needs to be set to 36. (17+17+2 = tras)
> 
> Best guide ive found on the interwebs Comprehensive Memory Overclocking Guide


LOL
Nope i dont must do that, These are only beginner guides ^^.
Normaly you have also to set tfaw min 2 higher as tcwl, but that it´s also not
absolutely necessary.
Much thing´s you dont find in www.

If you have selected hw and you know that you do, you can drive other timings and higher frequency as other can do like you see by my sub´s.


----------



## ::>_<::

Is it normal? 4000 19-23-23-31 only runs at 50000MB/s?








but still it is fully stable.


----------



## Nizzen

::>_<:: said:


> Is it normal? 4000 19-23-23-31 only runs at 50000MB/s?
> View attachment 2517032
> 
> but still it is fully stable.


Reset bios and load xmp. Run aida64 and post here


----------



## ::>_<::

Nizzen said:


> Reset bios and load xmp. Run aida64 and post here


however my dimms are not xmp enabled.
the default settings:








still a lot improvement in bandwidth using 4000,but why the bandwidth efficiency is that low? only 82%?
I'm a integrated graphics user now and what I concerns about is actually bandwidth, the latency is ok i think.
my dimms use micron D9ZFW die in 1Rx4 format.


----------



## ObviousCough

I started playing with my 5333 Ripjaws on Z490 yesterday. Apparently they're CJR. I've had them up to 5400 with my 5700G, i don't think the 10900k is going to get there.









I haven't messed with anything beyond trcf yet


1.5v


----------



## YaqY

ObviousCough said:


> I started playing with my 5333 Ripjaws on Z490 yesterday. Apparently they're CJR. I've had them up to 5400 with my 5700G, i don't think the 10900k is going to get there.
> View attachment 2517039
> 
> 
> I haven't messed with anything beyond trcf yet
> 
> 
> 1.5v
> View attachment 2517041
> View attachment 2517042


That is thaiphoon guessing, the IC isn’t coded into the SPD, it is actually Hynix DJR, CJR won’t clock that high.


----------



## fray_bentos

ObviousCough said:


> I started playing with my 5333 Ripjaws on Z490 yesterday. Apparently they're CJR. I've had them up to 5400 with my 5700G, i don't think the 10900k is going to get there.
> View attachment 2517039
> 
> 
> I haven't messed with anything beyond trcf yet
> 
> 
> 1.5v
> View attachment 2517041
> View attachment 2517042


Are your IO and SA voltages dangerously high? What are they?


----------



## Imprezzion

Oof. Read copy and latency actually worse then B-Die @ 4400C17. Only write is slightly better..


----------



## itssladenlol

Imprezzion said:


> Oof. Read copy and latency actually worse then B-Die @ 4400C17. Only write is slightly better..


My thoughts and write is useless.


----------



## SoldierRBT

@PhoenixMDA 

Increased voltage to 1.53v now I can run tRDRD_dr and tWRRD_dr 5 with tighter RTLs.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@SoldierRBT
Very great Result👌, i have also the same in 24/7, for me it´s the best of Voltage´s/Performance.
At 4666 i need higher IO/SA and it bring only 1-2% best case.I have done my overview for wakü and waiting for new generation😅

I have decide for UV, that is my 24/7 with the same sub´s and it works very well with low Watt/temp.


----------



## shocker94

Have anyone good settings for better RTL/IOL memory training? The default settings of the maximusx xiii apex are trash. It can't boot everytime or rtl and iols are 10 apart, although the memtests find no errors.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

shocker94 said:


> Have anyone good settings for better RTL/IOL memory training? The default settings of the maximusx xiii apex are trash. It can't boot everytime or rtl and iols are 10 apart, although the memtests find no errors.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


Enable Round Trip Latency or set them manually


----------



## Gen.

SoldierRBT said:


> @PhoenixMDA
> 
> Increased voltage to 1.53v now I can run tRDRD_dr and tWRRD_dr 5 with tighter RTLs.
> 
> View attachment 2517129


can you drop the cap or txt file?


----------



## shocker94

jeiselramos said:


> Enable Round Trip Latency or set them manually


Thank you. I'have 2x16gb crucial ballistix 16gb micron rev B. Are 56 degrees high for this chip? I'm testing them at 1.45v 4000 17-18-18

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## SoldierRBT

Gen. said:


> can you drop the cap or txt file?


It's pretty much the same profile that Phoenix shared a few weeks ago. The only difference is auto slopes, 4600 instead of 4666 and vref 0.505v.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

With auto slope´s i think i need more io/sa as you, 1,34V bios,
With slope´s i can get down to 1,3V io and 1,305V sa bios, but then i must change my RTL/IOL from 64/65 7/8 to 65/64/65/65 8/7/8/8 for 100% stable.
The voltage´s are then to low for 100% stable 64/65 7/8.


----------



## jeiselramos

shocker94 said:


> Thank you. I'have 2x16gb crucial ballistix 16gb micron rev B. Are 56 degrees high for this chip? I'm testing them at 1.45v 4000 17-18-18
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


no. it isn't temperature sensitive


----------



## shocker94

jeiselramos said:


> no. it isn't temperature sensitive


Ok, thank you. Can't pass over 4000mhz with the apex z590. Very bad board. The z490 strix e, was better on ram OC.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

shocker94 said:


> Ok, thank you. Can't pass over 4000mhz with the apex z590. Very bad board. The z490 strix e, was better on ram OC.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


Are you using 10900k? If Yes take z490 Apex


----------



## shocker94

jeiselramos said:


> Are you using 10900k? If Yes take z490 Apex


Why?
I've the 10850k. I've taken the z590 because was cheaper than the 490.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

shocker94 said:


> Why?
> I've the 10850k. I've taken the z590 because was cheaper than the 490.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


Z590 are for 11gen with Gear 1 or 2.
They Have a lot problem with 10gen


----------



## shocker94

jeiselramos said:


> Z590 are for 11gen with Gear 1 or 2.
> They Have a lot problem with 10gen


They will release a fix, probably. Or not?[emoji23]

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## newls1

jeiselramos said:


> Z590 are for 11gen with Gear 1 or 2.
> They Have a lot problem with 10gen


thats not true at all. Yes.... Z590 has hidden mem options that only show up when 11gen "K" series CPUs are installed and the mem controller in those cpu's clock a little different then 10th gen, there is certainly no issues clocking ram on z590 with 10th gen. Me personally have my 10900k on z590 with 4030MHz CL15 and getting 36ns speeds. This was faster then Z490 for me


----------



## jeiselramos

newls1 said:


> thats not true at all. Yes.... Z590 has hidden mem options that only show up when 11gen "K" series CPUs are installed and the mem controller in those cpu's clock a little different then 10th gen, there is certainly no issues clocking ram on z590 with 10th gen. Me personally have my 10900k on z590 with 4030MHz CL15 and getting 36ns speeds. This was faster then Z490 for me


4030 C15 Is very good OC but Isn't an High frequency for 10900k 
If you Have a z490 Apex instead z590 in 2x8 Is Easy go over 4533 if you Have a good kit


----------



## Imprezzion

4400C17 2x16 is 36.3ns for me on Z490 Ace + 10900KF. I mean, it performs just fine. It's just still a shame either my board or my CPU is holding me back from running higher frequencies on this kit. It can do way way more but not on this board / CPU.

I tested the kit at a friend's place in his AMD rig in unsynced infinity fabric (5800X + X570 Strix-E) and it booted 4800C19 just fine and even ran 1 hour of TM5 and HCI just fine on 4666 18-18-18-39-2T but o can only dream of those numbers. 4666C18 does boot to windows, it just can't be stabilized. Instantly spews 50+ errors in 2 minutes. 4500C17 is almost stable, 1 error in 38 minutes, but I can't get that error to go away no matter what I do. 

I guess I'm stuck on 4400C17 unless I find a cheap Z490 Apex secondhand. I would instabuy it if one came up secondhand sub €250...


----------



## Nizzen

jeiselramos said:


> Z590 are for 11gen with Gear 1 or 2.
> They Have a lot problem with 10gen


Did you watch Framechasers on youtube now?


----------



## newls1

jeiselramos said:


> 4030 C15 Is very good OC but Isn't an High frequency for 10900k
> If you Have a z490 Apex instead z590 in 2x8 Is Easy go over 4533 if you Have a good kit


not everyone is going for max speed, nor care about max speed.... Of course apex board will clock ram higher, its a 2 dimmer board. Z590 clocks just as high for mem on 10th gen as z490


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Did you watch Framechasers on youtube now?


that guy is so damn annoying


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> Did you watch Framechasers on youtube now?


I tested z590 Apex and z590 aorus master and i had problem, but was one of the First BIOS, they fix?


----------



## Nizzen

jeiselramos said:


> I tested z590 Apex and z590 aorus master and i had problem, but was one of the First BIOS, they fix?


"Tested"?
What problem did you have. There is like 25 bios later already


----------



## shocker94

jeiselramos said:


> I tested z590 Apex and z590 aorus master and i had problem, but was one of the First BIOS, they fix?


They haven't fixed the apex. I can't pass over 4000mhz, because the motherboard go crazy and throw random errors, like 7F or long wait on b4.
But, if it boot in Windows, memtest show no errors.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

@Nizzen Have you tried SR d bie 1t on z590 Apex with 10th gen CPU? Last time I did I could not get it working over something like 4000 or 4200(cant remember exact clock) where on previous gens(z390/z490) I had 4533c17 1t stable. My z590 Apex wont even boot 4533c17 1t SR BD for me when using 10th gen CPU.


----------



## menko2

jeiselramos said:


> Z590 are for 11gen with Gear 1 or 2.
> They Have a lot problem with 10gen


I'm using z590 XIII hero with 10900k and no problems so far.

What are the issues you mention?


----------



## shocker94

menko2 said:


> I'm using z590 XIII hero with 10900k and no problems so far.
> 
> What are the issues you mention?


Can you overclock ram over 4000mhz? I've some issue with the 10850k. Sa/io 1.25v.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## menko2

shocker94 said:


> Can you overclock ram over 4000mhz? I've some issue with the 10850k. Sa/io 1.25v.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


I'm limited because of the heat in Spain now.

Right now I'm using 2x16GB B-die 4300mhz [email protected] 1.45v.


----------



## shocker94

menko2 said:


> I'm limited because of the heat in Spain now.
> 
> Right now I'm using 2x16GB B-die 4300mhz [email protected] 1.45v.


Much better than mine. Probably my cpu, can't hold high frequency.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## menko2

shocker94 said:


> Much better than mine. Probably my cpu, can't hold high frequency.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


My 10900k is a good SP 92.

But as far as I know the SP number doesn't relate to the IMC.

The board should be ok I think. Maybe even better than the Z490 XII hero.


----------



## shocker94

menko2 said:


> My 10900k is a good SP 92.
> 
> But as far as I know the SP number doesn't relate to the IMC.
> 
> The board should be ok I think. Maybe even better than the Z490 XII hero.


Mine is 79. Not bad for 10850k probably. But, the IMC, seems very bad.[emoji23]

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> "Tested"?
> What problem did you have. There is like 25 bios later already


With my 2x16 4000C16 1.4 on the Apex i can't boot over 4533 e requires much io/sa for the same OC at 4400C16.
On the master with 4x8 my xmp doesn't work (4000c17 1.35) and i can't go over 3800mhz.
But was probably a BIOS issue. On 11gen no problem and for this reason i returned them.


----------



## Nizzen

jeiselramos said:


> With my 2x16 4000C16 1.4 on the Apex i can't boot over 4533 e requires much io/sa for the same OC at 4400C16.
> On the master with 4x8 my xmp doesn't work (4000c17 1.35) and i can't go over 3800mhz.
> But was probably a BIOS issue. On 11gen no problem and for this reason i returned them.


It's imc diff, not MB.
Though Gigabutt bios sux.


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> "Tested"?
> What problem did you have. There is like 25 bios later already


With my 2x16 4000C16 1.4 on the Apex i can't boot over 4533 e requires much io/sa for the same OC at 4400C16.
On the master with 4x8 my xmp doesn't work (4000c17 1.35) and i can't go over 3800mhz.
But was probably a BIOS issue. On 11gen no problem and for this reason i returned them.


Nizzen said:


> It's imc diff, not MB.
> Though Gigabutt bios sux.


I know gigabyte Is GARBAGE but i gave a second chance, never again. I had similar issue with z390 aorus Xtreme in 4x8 and my z390 maximus xi Extreme was fully stable at 4533c17 😂


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> It's imc diff, not MB.
> Though Gigabutt bios sux.











Test : AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, 12 cœurs et 24 threads à ne pas négliger


Aujourd'hui dans la Cuisine du Hardware nous testons le processeur AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, un CPU 12 cœurs 24 threads sous l'architecture Zen 3




www.hardwarecooking.fr





This review of the 5900x shows that in gaming the 11900k beats the 10900k.

In the 11900k forum users say the 10900k beats the 11900k so I'm confused.

Which one is better for gaming of the two?


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> Test : AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, 12 cœurs et 24 threads à ne pas négliger
> 
> 
> Aujourd'hui dans la Cuisine du Hardware nous testons le processeur AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, un CPU 12 cœurs 24 threads sous l'architecture Zen 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hardwarecooking.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This review of the 5900x shows that in gaming the 11900k beats the 10900k.
> 
> In the 11900k forum users say the 10900k beats the 11900k so I'm confused.
> 
> Which one is better for gaming of the two?


Depend on the skill level of the user 

Do you play 1080p 360hz?

If not, don't bother to. Buy whatever


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> Depend on the skill level of the user
> 
> Do you play 1080p 360hz?
> 
> If not, don't bother to. Buy whatever


You've 10900k 11900k and 5950, for you which Is the best?


----------



## Nizzen

jeiselramos said:


> You've 10900k 11900k and 5950, for you which Is the best?


10900k I'm getting the most consistent fps in Battlefield V. 
I'm playing BF games 99%


----------



## tcclaviger

Miss post.


----------



## The Pook

shocker94 said:


> Mine is 79. Not bad for 10850k probably. But, the IMC, seems very bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


Better than my 10850K's 57  can still do 4266 on Z590 just fine, though. not sure if it's limited to higher from the IMC or board.

got a 10900K coming tomorrow, will see if it goes up or not. 



tcclaviger said:


> So I've been tweaking for a bit and this seems to be the best stable configuration I can come up with.


think you meant to post here









[Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Pretty sure he means that you can't just blame martin, as he has help in other places, and sources he doesn't mention to "protect" such people from AMD hammer/slammer lawsuit type stuff. Why i would, and/or i should, blame HWInfo developers team?! I didn't get the point at the time of the...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Astral85

I'm struggling to get 3866Mhz stable... I'm already running 1.46V DRAM voltage. Do you guys have any suggestions?


----------



## The Pook

Astral85 said:


> I'm struggling to get 3866Mhz stable... I'm already running 1.46V DRAM voltage. Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> View attachment 2517681


I couldn't get 4 DIMMs stable above 3733 on my XIII. I could boot at 4000 but nothing got it stable. Just sold it and swapped to a 16x2 kit.


----------



## Astral85

How long should TM5 Universal2 be rin for? 1 hour min?


----------



## Astral85

I got this to pass 55 min of TM5 Universal2. Not sure what the issue is when I start tweaking sub timings. I did run lower VCCIO on this run.


----------



## Bakuya

Hello, who can help go lower than 40ns?
Running Vdimm 1.41 vccio 1.185 SA 1.185.
Do not wanna raise up Vdimm to much.
I cannot go past 4000mhz on this board.
Can tighten timings, but when raise Vdimm to 1.5v and primary to 15 16 35
latency go to 38.9ns but system feels not so responsive.
Also i tried to lower by half Trfc and do not see sny improvement in ns latency.
This ram is Gskill Royal f4 4600 C18 GTRS 1.45V 2x8Gb.
Dont have ppd settings in this motherboard.
Help to go lower if possible, - thanks.


----------



## Nizzen

Astral85 said:


> I'm struggling to get 3866Mhz stable... I'm already running 1.46V DRAM voltage. Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> View attachment 2517681


Try 1.53v vdram ,1.45 vccsa and more cooling on the dimms


----------



## Astral85

Nizzen said:


> Try 1.53v vdram ,1.45 vccsa and more cooling on the dimms


That doesn't sound like something you'd want daily.  What I can't understand is that I can easily run 3800 stable with heavy tweaking but barely get 3866 past the primary timings. Does this seem unusual for a 66Mhz bump?


----------



## fray_bentos

Nizzen said:


> Try 1.53v vdram ,1.45 vccsa and more cooling on the dimms


Umm no.


----------



## Astral85

How is 50-55C max DIMM temp under heavy memory testing?


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> How is 50-55C max DIMM temp under heavy memory testing?


If it's stable then OK.


----------



## Astral85

Has anyone had their Windows Time stop syncing when RAM OC's run into errors? I've had this several times and have to re-sync the clock. Whenever I hit memory errors I frequently run chkdsk, SFC and DISM health checks and then make my daily backup image.


----------



## Nizzen

Astral85 said:


> That doesn't sound like something you'd want daily.  What I can't understand is that I can easily run 3800 stable with heavy tweaking but barely get 3866 past the primary timings. Does this seem unusual for a 66Mhz bump?


It's just to see if ut helping... if that is stable, set voltage down in small steps. 

Under 40c on b-die, and it's more easy to get stable.


----------



## Nizzen

fray_bentos said:


> If it's stable then OK.


You always want to take away temperature as an factor of instability. Next is too little vdram


----------



## Imprezzion

That's my bottleneck as well, that trade off.

Like, I need more voltage to be stable but then it gets hotter and makes it temperature unstable. So I lower voltage, temps fine, now it's voltage unstable..

I hate B-Die and it's temp sensitivity.. Max I can run in the summer VDIMM wise is 1.50v. That tops at ~45c which is still stable but 1.53v (for 4500C17) gets to 48c and that is the point at which my DIMM'S go "nope".


----------



## Nizzen

Imprezzion said:


> That's my bottleneck as well, that trade off.
> 
> Like, I need more voltage to be stable but then it gets hotter and makes it temperature unstable. So I lower voltage, temps fine, now it's voltage unstable..
> 
> I hate B-Die and it's temp sensitivity.. Max I can run in the summer VDIMM wise is 1.50v. That tops at ~45c which is still stable but 1.53v (for 4500C17) gets to 48c and that is the point at which my DIMM'S go "nope".


That's why I use dimm watercooling


----------



## jeiselramos

Imprezzion said:


> That's my bottleneck as well, that trade off.
> 
> Like, I need more voltage to be stable but then it gets hotter and makes it temperature unstable. So I lower voltage, temps fine, now it's voltage unstable..
> 
> I hate B-Die and it's temp sensitivity.. Max I can run in the summer VDIMM wise is 1.50v. That tops at ~45c which is still stable but 1.53v (for 4500C17) gets to 48c and that is the point at which my DIMM'S go "nope".


Your kit are so sensitive, my kits get error over 55


----------



## PhoenixMDA

You need a really awesome Kit to drive 4600+ at air, to find such a kit is more as difficult, if you don´t select are really highend bin.
Then is your IMC the limit or the board.

It´s much easier to watercooling the dimm´s, but for [email protected]+ you need nevertheless an really awesome kit.
The important difference between low "voltage´s IC´s" like 4000C14 bin that can do high frequency and a also awesome "4700ér Kit" is, it´s at higher temp more boot stable in higher frequency.

But only to find an Kit can do [email protected] is really hard.


----------



## Astral85

Back on my 3800Mhz (4x8GB) profile with more tweaks. Why do you guys think? I'm working with Gen to push the frequency higher.


----------



## The Pook

don't wanna count my chickens but it _seems_ my 4266 wall was just because my 10850K.

10850K would fail 4300 ~60 seconds into GSAT, 10900K is 15 minutes strong so far.

edit: passed an hour but gonna test for longer later.


----------



## robalm

My TRFC at 310 was rock stable before the heat.
Maybe 4c hotter room temp, the rest settings is the same. 
Now after 5 min pisses error (tested 2 times and error after about 5 min).
So i take the front chassi off and open window and have now been running 25min without error.
I don't understand..


----------



## heavyrain

TM5 with 1usmus V3 always report test7 error，is IMC problem？


----------



## mouacyk

Bakuya said:


> View attachment 2517692
> View attachment 2517693
> 
> Hello, who can help go lower than 40ns?
> Running Vdimm 1.41 vccio 1.185 SA 1.185.
> Do not wanna raise up Vdimm to much.
> I cannot go past 4000mhz on this board.
> Can tighten timings, but when raise Vdimm to 1.5v and primary to 15 16 35
> latency go to 38.9ns but system feels not so responsive.
> Also i tried to lower by half Trfc and do not see sny improvement in ns latency.
> This ram is Gskill Royal f4 4600 C18 GTRS 1.45V 2x8Gb.
> Dont have ppd settings in this motherboard.
> Help to go lower if possible, - thanks.


Overclock CPU to 5GHz CPU and 4.7GHz Cache.


----------



## The Pook

Astral85 said:


> Back on my 3800Mhz (4x8GB) profile with more tweaks. Why do you guys think? I'm working with Gen to push the frequency higher.
> 
> View attachment 2517864


double click in the empty boxes in AIDA64 instead of clicking "Start Benchmark" and you won't have to run the cache tests 🙃


----------



## munternet

The Pook said:


> double click in the empty boxes in AIDA64 instead of clicking "Start Benchmark" and you won't have to run the cache tests 🙃


Or just double click the word memory on the left


----------



## 648824

.


----------



## Astral85

The Pook said:


> double click in the empty boxes in AIDA64 instead of clicking "Start Benchmark" and you won't have to run the cache tests 🙃


I know that.  I want to see cache because I'm trying to work out what is going on with the L2 cache. On default BIOS settings I get around 1000+ gb/s on L2. Something I change manually is dropping this to around 700 gb/s. Does anyone know what would alter the L2 cache?


----------



## Astral85

This seems really weird... It looks like I can run 3900mhz stable with secondary tweaks but 3866 just refuses no matter what I do with the primaries. Guess I should just take the 3900 and be happy. 😊


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> This seems really weird... It looks like I can run 3900mhz stable with secondary tweaks but 3866 just refuses no matter what I do with the primaries. Guess I should just take the 3900 and be happy. 😊


Not necessarily so weird. One is 133 MHz strap (29 x 133.3333 MHz), the other is 100 MHz strap (39 x 100 MHz). I find 4000 MHz with 133 MHz FCLK strap gives lower performance vs. using 4000 MHz with the 100 MHz FCLK strap. The indication is that the 100 MHz strap is also more stable for me.


----------



## Astral85

fray_bentos said:


> Not necessarily so weird. One is 133 MHz strap (29 x 133.3333 MHz), the other is 100 MHz strap (39 x 100 MHz). I find 4000 MHz with 133 MHz FCLK strap gives lower performance vs. using 4000 MHz with the 100 MHz FCLK strap. The indication is that the 100 MHz strap is also more stable for me.


Which one is 133 Mhz strap and which 100 Mhz? I noticed the DRAM ratio is higher at 3900 Mhz.


----------



## Astral85

I see, it's the 3866. So 3866 is changing the bus to 133mhz and this could be why I'm struggling to stabilize 3866?


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> Which one is 133 Mhz strap and which 100 Mhz? I noticed the DRAM ratio is higher at 3900 Mhz.


Your example:
29 x 133.3333 MHz = 3866 MHz (unstable)
39 x 100 MHz = 3900 MHz (stable)

My example:
30 x 133.3333 MHz = 4000 MHz (worse performance)
40 x 100 MHz = 4000 MHz (good performance)
(for the latter you need to specify FCLK manually, as auto may default to either strap depending on motherboard default behaviour).

Note others have reported being able to get higher memory clocks with 133 MHz, but I guess that depends on numerous factors, for me it was the opposite.

Edit: cross post by us both. Yes, you got it.


----------



## Astral85

Going to do some reading on FCLK.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> Going to do some reading on FCLK.


I should clarify that my use of FCLK is probably not precise. That term is more associated with Ryzen Infinity fabric. I think "memory strap" is possibly a better term for intel. BCLK used to be unified across memory, PCIe speed, cache freq, and CPU clock, but in recent Intel generations BCLK for these things have been split and separated so they have become different types of "something-CLK ratios".

For example, on your Asus board, the corresponding BIOS setting is called "BCLK Frequency : RAM Frequency ratio". Either 100:100 or 100:133, I believe.

You might also need to set "DRAM Odd Ratio Mode" to enabled to show all DRAM ratios for all 100 and 133 MHz multiplier combinations.


----------



## 648824

.


----------



## Astral85

So I just ran the TM5 1usmus_v3 test and my RAM OC that passes the complete Universal2 test without errors fails usmus in 5 mins. What does that mean?

Edit: Think I narrowed it down to VCCSA. I put SA on AUTO which is about 1.4V and this let 1usmus pass.


----------



## 648824

Astral85 said:


> I know that.  I want to see cache because I'm trying to work out what is going on with the L2 cache. On default BIOS settings I get around 1000+ gb/s on L2. Something I change manually is dropping this to around 700 gb/s. Does anyone know what would alter the L2 cache?


I just did some testing on my 9900k, i had the same issue. After some trial and error, too low of trdwr_sg, trdwr_dg, trdwr_dr and trdwr_dd can lead to lower l2 cache speeds. I was running them at 12 across and had to up them to 13 across.

*EDIT: Nevermind, had nothing to do with the timings. Disregard my reply, sorry.*


----------



## GOOFUS

Hello all

I am kinda in problem with mine ram and hope sombody can help me with
Motherboard xii formula 
ram is trident Trident 4000c15 32gb 4x8gb
Cpu 10700k

When turning on xmp II memtest shows me erorr

When on xmp I not what am i missing and i m not a pro at the ram area

The vccio and are on 1.3v

And dramvoltage 1.505v


----------



## fray_bentos

GOOFUS said:


> Hello all
> 
> I am kinda in problem with mine ram and hope sombody can help me with
> Motherboard xii formula
> ram is trident Trident 4000c15 32gb 4x8gb
> Cpu 10700k
> 
> When turning on xmp II memtest shows me erorr
> 
> When on xmp I not what am i missing and i m not a pro at the ram area
> 
> The vccio and are on 1.3v
> 
> And dramvoltage 1.505v


4000 MHz will run on either 100 MHz x40, or 133 MHz x30 memory straps. Some boards/CPUs/RAM combinations work best with 100 MHz strap, and some better with 133 MHz. This is probably set as auto right now. Look for something called memory frequency that allows 100 or 133 MHz set, or BCLK to memory frequency ratio that allows 100:100 or 100:133 to be selected. Try 100 MHz, then try 133 MHz and see if one improves stability.

If that fails, you could remove two sticks and it will likely work, or keep all four and drop to 3900. Running 4 sticks with that frequency and such tight timings isn't guaranteed as it is quite challenging. My 10600K would max out at 3900 15-15-15 even with only two sticks, but the same sticks with the same RAM/IO/SA voltages run at 4200 16-16-16 on my newer 10900KF: IMC limited. You could try and increase SA and IO, but personally I'm not a fan of that (I max 1.25 V on both).

Once you find stability, also be sure to run Aida benchmarks to compare settings. I've seen differences in performance depending on whether 100 MHz or 133 MHz memory straps are used. For example, 3900 with 100 MHz strap might perform better than 4000 133 MHz depending on how you're motherboard then trains the subsequent subtimings.

Let us know how you get on.


----------



## GOOFUS

fray_bentos said:


> 4000 MHz will run on either 100 MHz x40, or 133 MHz x30 memory straps. Some boards/CPUs/RAM combinations work best with 100 MHz strap, and some better with 133 MHz. This is probably set as auto right now. Look for something called memory frequency that allows 100 or 133 MHz set, or BCLK to memory frequency ratio that allows 100:100 or 100:133 to be selected. Try 100 MHz, then try 133 MHz and see if one improves stability.
> 
> If that fails, you could remove two sticks and it will likely work, or keep all four and drop to 3900. Running 4 sticks with that frequency and such tight timings isn't guaranteed as it is quite challenging. My 10600K would max out at 3900 15-15-15 even with only two sticks, but the same sticks with the same RAM/IO/SA voltages run at 4200 16-16-16 on my newer 10900KF: IMC limited. You could try and increase SA and IO, but personally I'm not a fan of that (I max 1.25 V on both).
> 
> Once you find stability, also be sure to run Aida benchmarks to compare settings. I've seen differences in performance depending on whether 100 MHz or 133 MHz memory straps are used. For example, 3900 with 100 MHz strap might perform better than 4000 133 MHz depending on how you're motherboard then trains the subsequent subtimings.
> 
> Let us know how you get on.


Thank very much ill will try your method soon


----------



## ViTosS

Guys I was testing a already TM5, Karhu and HCI stable RAM OC ([email protected]), but for some reason no matter what I can't boot from a completely cold boot (remove PC from wallet and then press power a couple times to empty the remaining power), I tried many things without success, like RTL IOL to AUTO, loosening timings, increasing IO/SA voltages and also DRAM voltage, tried changing MCH Full Check, Trace Centering, etc, I'm completely stable but I can't boot, with my [email protected] profile there is no problem at all, I wonder if I'm forgeting some BIOS setting that can help with booting.

Any ideas?


----------



## Nizzen

ViTosS said:


> Guys I was testing a already TM5, Karhu and HCI stable RAM OC ([email protected]), but for some reason no matter what I can't boot from a completely cold boot (remove PC from wallet and then press power a couple times to empty the remaining power), I tried many things without success, like RTL IOL to AUTO, loosening timings, increasing IO/SA voltages and also DRAM voltage, tried changing MCH Full Check, Trace Centering, etc, I'm completely stable but I can't boot, with my [email protected] profile there is no problem at all, I wonder if I'm forgeting some BIOS setting that can help with booting.
> 
> Any ideas?


Try higher VCCSA boot voltage? Like 1.45v?


----------



## YaqY

ViTosS said:


> Guys I was testing a already TM5, Karhu and HCI stable RAM OC ([email protected]), but for some reason no matter what I can't boot from a completely cold boot (remove PC from wallet and then press power a couple times to empty the remaining power), I tried many things without success, like RTL IOL to AUTO, loosening timings, increasing IO/SA voltages and also DRAM voltage, tried changing MCH Full Check, Trace Centering, etc, I'm completely stable but I can't boot, with my [email protected] profile there is no problem at all, I wonder if I'm forgeting some BIOS setting that can help with booting.
> 
> Any ideas?


Dual rank or single rank? If dual rank check the post code before 55 with mch fullcheck enabled. Correct tcwl has a big effect on training consistency too.


----------



## GOOFUS

GOOFUS said:


> Thank very much ill will try your method soon


So this what i have done for me i got it stable is when i got vccio and vccsa 1.3v and dram voltage at 1.55v is this actualy ok its a samsung


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Guys I was testing a already TM5, Karhu and HCI stable RAM OC ([email protected]), but for some reason no matter what I can't boot from a completely cold boot (remove PC from wallet and then press power a couple times to empty the remaining power), I tried many things without success, like RTL IOL to AUTO, loosening timings, increasing IO/SA voltages and also DRAM voltage, tried changing MCH Full Check, Trace Centering, etc, I'm completely stable but I can't boot, with my [email protected] profile there is no problem at all, I wonder if I'm forgeting some BIOS setting that can help with booting.
> 
> Any ideas?


Have you tried optimizing skews and slopes? Helps quite a bit if you're on the edge.


----------



## Scrdvr

4800 16-16







4800 15-15


----------



## ViTosS

Nizzen said:


> Try higher VCCSA boot voltage? Like 1.45v?


I will try that


YaqY said:


> Dual rank or single rank? If dual rank check the post code before 55 with mch fullcheck enabled. Correct tcwl has a big effect on training consistency too.


Single rank, I was seeing a lot of 23 error code and sometimes it was just cycling randomly codes and rebooting nonstop, tcwl was on AUTO


----------



## bscool

@Scrdvr I would think your latency would be in the 38-40ns range for the timings and clocks on your z590. Still impressive clocks and timings on both setups


----------



## Imprezzion

Does someone happen to have a TL;DR version of how skews / slopes work?  And especially how to find and set the right ones (on MSI Z490)?


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Does someone happen to have a TL;DR version of how skews / slopes work?  And especially how to find and set the right ones (on MSI Z490)?











The Importance of Setting Slopes for Memory Overclocking


As the title suggests setting rising and falling data slopes seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little If this seems familiar it's probably because I copied and pasted it from my last thread on skew control and changed a few words :p I spent an afternoon testing...




www.overclock.net













The Importance of Skew Control for Memory Overclocking


As the title suggests skew control seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little I spent the day testing different settings to see just how much difference the skew settings make and it seems it won't even boot with many of them I can see now that it would be easy to...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Scrdvr

bscool said:


> @Scrdvr I would think your latency would be in the 38-40ns range for the timings and clocks on your z590. Still impressive clocks and timings on both setups


It is very difficult to have a latency of less than 40NS at 4800mhz


----------



## 2500k_2

Scrdvr said:


> View attachment 2519465
> 4800 16-16
> View attachment 2519463
> 4800 15-15


Greetings. Impressive results. Please tell me what is the memory temperature during the tests?
Are you using a chiller?


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> Greetings. Impressive results. Please tell me what is the memory temperature during the tests?
> Are you using a chiller?


Ofc it's cold water


----------



## Scrdvr

ek240aio












Instead of using a chiller, the memory has no temperature sensor and is cooled by a fan


----------



## Scrdvr

内存上方是一个12厘米的风扇


----------



## Nizzen

Scrdvr said:


> 内存上方是一个12厘米的风扇
> View attachment 2519561


Nice job! Is it a aircondition in the background? You got the same temperature as me in the garage


----------



## Scrdvr

Nizzen said:


> Nice job! Is it a aircondition in the background? You got the same temperature as me in the garage


Tower fan


----------



## ViTosS

I'm testing a new RAM OC profile, I can't pass with tRRD_L at 6 and tRRD_S at 4, so I changed to AUTO and was able to pass, what value do you guys recommend to set both of these that is the next step from 6/4?


----------



## Astral85

What is the difference between the DRAM/BLCK ratio and the actual BLCK ratio?


----------



## Astral85

ViTosS said:


> I'm testing a new RAM OC profile, I can't pass with tRRD_L at 6 and tRRD_S at 4, so I changed to AUTO and was able to pass, what value do you guys recommend to set both of these that is the next step from 6/4?
> View attachment 2519590


I would try loosening the timings or increasing SA/IO voltage. Maybe try SA/IO voltages on Auto.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> What is the difference between the DRAM/BLCK ratio and the actual BLCK ratio?


BLCK changes your CPU clock speed and RAM.
DRAM/BLCK ratio changes ratio of your RAM relative to BCLK. e.g. normally 100 BCLK x RAM ratio (100:133 or 100:100). If you set BCLK 102 then RAM speed would be 102 BCLK x RAM ratio (100:133 or 100:100).


----------



## ViTosS

Astral85 said:


> I would try loosening the timings or increasing SA/IO voltage. Maybe try SA/IO voltages on Auto.


I tried tRRD_L and S from 6/4 to 8/6, 10/8, 12/8, 14/10 and 14/12 and failed all of them, it's weird seems like I will have to use these on AUTO or maybe increase voltages.


----------



## Imprezzion

New setup: (With 4/4 tRRD )










I discovered my CPU behaves a hell of a lot better with a BCLK OC then pure multi and on Z490 you actually can safely BCLK OC as besides the RAM nothing is tied to the BCLK as the rest (PCI-E / DMI) has it's own clockgen.

104.1 BCLK makes it run basically 4266 on the 4100 divider so that's what I set up.
1.50v DRAM failed after 38 minutes with 1 single error so I slightly raised it to 1.52v and now even with 47.5c DIMM temps it made it the first hour and a half at least.


----------



## cstkl1

Scrdvr said:


> It is very difficult to have a latency of less than 40NS at 4800mhz


bro apex @51|46
4800
c17 41.9-42.2
c16 41.3-41.6
c15 40.7-41.1

5kc17 breaks 39.x


----------



## Imprezzion

cstkl1 said:


> bro apex @51|46
> 4800
> c17 41.9-42.2
> c16 41.3-41.6
> c15 40.7-41.1
> 
> 5kc17 breaks 39.x


I mean. Should I be surprised now that even at 4400C17 I can easily manage 38.5ns and even lower if I wanted to optimize it further? The above 4266C16 also does 38.6ns repeatable and that is on a full fat windows boot not even closing all the background launchers and monitoring...

Or am I getting this totally the wrong way. I mean, how can you have 40+NS on a 2 dimm board with 4800mhz on the same primary CAS timing as I use on a mere 4400mhz.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> I'm testing a new RAM OC profile, I can't pass with tRRD_L at 6 and tRRD_S at 4, so I changed to AUTO and was able to pass, what value do you guys recommend to set both of these that is the next step from 6/4?
> View attachment 2519590


doing that your turnaround will be bad

4,4, 16 is the perfect harmony for scaling with ram speed with the lowest dd/dr

anything else is why idiots like hardware unbox, linus, gn etc.. when benchmark sees aida numbers dont translate to actual. 

its few things i seriously do not compromise on ram oc cause its pointless to even continue upping the speed.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> I mean. Should I be surprised now that even at 4400C17 I can easily manage 38.5ns and even lower if I wanted to optimize it further? The above 4266C16 also does 38.6ns repeatable and that is on a full fat windows boot not even closing all the background launchers and monitoring...
> 
> Or am I getting this totally the wrong way. I mean, how can you have 40+NS on a 2 dimm board with 4800mhz on the same primary CAS timing as I use on a mere 4400mhz.


its ref to rkl gear 2 latency

as for cml.. bandwidth trumps latency.

so priority is bandwidth. because cml cpu cache/core will keep scaling reducing the latency and boosting the bandwidth.


----------



## Imprezzion

cstkl1 said:


> its ref to rkl gear 2 latency
> 
> as for cml.. bandwidth trumps latency.
> 
> so priority is bandwidth. because cml cpu cache/core will keep scaling reducing the latency and boosting the bandwidth.


So, gave it a shot, it will boot as high as 4700 with little effort on my 4 DIMM Z490 Ace but it's not exactly stable lol. Even 4700 19-21-21 will not even start a TM5 test before just freezing lol. And it was pretty hard to get lower timings to even boot with only a very specific ODT combination even getting to the BIOS. I'm afraid I'm kinda limited at 4400 ish on this board.

EDIT: I'll let it run the full 3 cycles (3 hours ish) but this is totally fine.


----------



## 648824

Is it better to have trtp/twr 6/12 with twrpre 30 or is it better to have trtp/twr 8/10 with twrpre 28? Usage case is gaming.

EDIT: Ok so i just did some testing in occt memory test avx2 for 1 hour comparing the 2 at 16-16-16-34 4266mhz
5ghz 8c/8t 4.7ring with trtp/twr 6/12, 30 twrpre and 65534 trefi =143 iterations in 1 hour

5ghz 8c/8t 4.5ring with trtp/twr 8/10, 28 twrpre and 32768 trefi =142 iterations in 1 hour

I think if i were to increase the ring to 4.7 with the second configuration or leaving the ring at 4.5ghz while increasing trefi to 65534 it would get at least 143 iterations or more in 1 hour. I think trtp/twr 8/10 with twrpre 28 is better than trtp/twr 6/12 with twrpre 30.


----------



## DrR0Ck

I'm hoping I can get some advice as I'm working on my first memory overclock and I've been messing with this for several days and getting frustrated. I'm running 32 GB (2x16) of Corsair Vengeance 3000 15-17-17-35 and trying to stabilize at 3333. This is on an Asrock z370 Taichi, with an 8086k at 50/44. Whenever I think I'm in the clear, I fail a different test. I have tested with Prime95 custom, TM5 Anta777 Extreme1, HCI memtest, and most recently I have been seeing "hardware incidents" running GSAT off of a bootable USB. I am currently set to 3333 16-19-19-37, with HWInfo reading voltages as DRAM1.408, VCCIO at 1.224 and VCCSA at 1.240. CPU overclock is very stable and system seems stable overall. So I would like to get the memory overclock stable and error free and then work on tightening additional timings. I'm looking for settings I can run daily and not push the envelope too much. Also, I suspect my memory benchmark numbers should be better, but I imagine some improvement will come once timings get tightened. Any assistance would be much appreciated. If there is additional info I can provide that would help, please let me know. Thanks!


----------



## Gen.

Guys, who is ready to help me set up 4600 17-17 + to apex 12 + 10850K? IMC 1.24 / 1.28 linx 0.9.11 to 4400 16-16 (8-8-62-62 rtl)


----------



## Nizzen

Gen. said:


> Guys, who is ready to help me set up 4600 17-17 + to apex 12 + 10850K? IMC 1.24 / 1.28 linx 0.9.11 to 4400 16-16 (8-8-62-62 rtl)


Vccsa on auto, and you are good to go


----------



## Imprezzion

1 single error on 4580 18-19-19-39-450-2T after 46 minutes on TM5 Anta777 Extreme... Bah.. I was quite conservative with the voltages but still. 1.52v DRAM 1.35v SA 1.30v IO. DIMM temp around 46-46.5c. Would simply yeeting more volts help here or?


----------



## shocker94

What can i do to lower latency? Seems too high.
















Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## RobertoSampaio

shocker94 said:


> What can i do to lower latency? Seems too high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


I think the 1º thing to do is to use dual channel...


----------



## shocker94

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think the 1º thing to do is to use dual channel...


I'm using dual channel. The apex have only 2 ram slots.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

shocker94 said:


> What can i do to lower latency? Seems too high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


ram. what are u running?


----------



## shocker94

cstkl1 said:


> ram. what are u running?


Crucial Ballistix RGB 2x16 3600 cl16-18-18-38 1.35v(stock xmp). Chip micron bdie 16gb. Z590 apex+11700kf. Vccio/sa and mcio auto.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

What was the calculation for optimal RTL/IO values again.. someone posted it here a long time ago.

I feel like I'm way too tight even tho it does boot properly lol.

4200 15-17-17-35-300-2N with RTL/IO 60/60/62/62/6/6/6/6. Shouldn't that be more like 65/65/66/66/7/7/8/8?

Oh and dumb question maybe, but do I HAVE to have matching tRP and tRCD? Like, 15-17-17, or can I just run 15-16-17 for example. Or 15-15-17? And will that do anything for performance or stability?


----------



## 2500k_2

if you add + 0.01v dram. Then the memory can withstand heating up to 55 degrees.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> What was the calculation for optimal RTL/IO values again.. someone posted it here a long time ago.
> 
> I feel like I'm way too tight even tho it does boot properly lol.
> 
> 4200 15-17-17-35-300-2N with RTL/IO 60/60/62/62/6/6/6/6. Shouldn't that be more like 65/65/66/66/7/7/8/8?
> 
> Oh and dumb question maybe, but do I HAVE to have matching tRP and tRCD? Like, 15-17-17, or can I just run 15-16-17 for example. Or 15-15-17? And will that do anything for performance or stability?


60/62 7/7 sounds about right for C15 considering C16 likes 61/63 on MSI boards.


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> 60/62 7/7 sounds about right for C15 considering C16 likes 61/63 on MSI boards.


It is stable at those timings and RTL, full 3 hour TM5 Anta777 Extreme run and 1h30m prime95 blend max RAM no AVX and it had no errors but needs 1.59v DRAM to run and that is a bit much for the summer. Temps get into the low 50's and I can't guarantee stability. I did the stress test with my RAM fan at 100% which is super loud lol. I kinda wanna stay at or below 1.52v ish as then I can keep them at 46.5-47c at reasonable fanspeed and noise levels.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> It is stable at those timings and RTL, full 3 hour TM5 Anta777 Extreme run and 1h30m prime95 blend max RAM no AVX and it had no errors but needs 1.59v DRAM to run and that is a bit much for the summer. Temps get into the low 50's and I can't guarantee stability. I did the stress test with my RAM fan at 100% which is super loud lol. I kinda wanna stay at or below 1.52v ish as then I can keep them at 46.5-47c at reasonable fanspeed and noise levels.


1.59V for 4200? Yikes! Prior to the summer heatwave I was working on a 4400 C16 profile that ran into similar heat issues at 1.55v (no additional fan cooling yet). Basically had to shelf that idea til late fall lol

Any reason you're running IOLs at 6/6 vs. 7/7? Doubt there's a big gap in performance that would make up for the extra VDIMM and heat.


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> 1.59V for 4200? Yikes! Prior to the summer heatwave I was working on a 4400 C16 profile that ran into similar heat issues at 1.55v (no additional fan cooling yet). Basically had to shelf that idea til late fall lol
> 
> Any reason you're running IOLs at 6/6 vs. 7/7? Doubt there's a big gap in performance that would make up for the extra VDIMM and heat.


It's the C15 that makes it need 1.59v. It does 4200C16 @ 1.48v and 4200C17 @ 1.42v but I wanted to push it to the max and frequency isn't this kits strong suit so I thought staying at 4200 and trying to drop timings as low as possible would be the way to go but for C15 I had to use 1.59v and had to loosen up a lot of tertiary timings to make it work..

Daily for me is 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2N @ 1.505v with 67/67/7/7 RTL IO and reasonable secondary and tertiary timings but it will not budge from there. It will not do anywhere near 4500 without going to 18's and it will also not do 4400C16 no matter how much voltage and loose secondaries I throw at it..


----------



## Gen.

I'll capture one moment here. It was not easy, but we managed with our small circle of overclockers


----------



## boldenc

delete


----------



## Astral85

I can't seem to find anymore read bandwidth... What do you guys suggest?


----------



## 648824

GottaHaveMyClocks | [email protected] 8C\8T | [email protected] 16-18-18-36-2T | 1.55v/VDIMM | 1.34v/SA-IO | HCIMemtestpro 7.0 1000%
Regular ambient conditions in 12x12 room, door shut, central air conditioning vent was closed. XMP was not used. Ram modules maximum temperature=44.Xc


----------



## SunnyStefan

Gen. said:


> I'll capture one moment here. It was not easy, but we managed with our small circle of overclockers


4400 MHz with *1T command rate* on a Z490 dual rank setup? I lurk several Intel RAM OC threads (OCN, ROG forums, hwLUXX) and this is probably the highest frequency dual rank 1T overclock on Z490 that I've seen.

For those who don't know, once you increase the frequency of a dual rank setup above ~ 4133 MHz, it becomes _extremely_ difficult to stabilize if you are still running a 1T command rate (on Z390/Z490 at least). It's almost like there's an invisible wall at this frequency that makes it very hard to pass any stress test unless you relax your command rate timing by raising it from 1T -> 2T.

Very impressive if it's actually stable (now pass 3 cycles of Anta's TM5 profile ).

*edit: *I'm curious, do you have trace centering enabled? I know that setting was crucial for a lot of high frequency Z390 1T single rank overclocks posted here and elsewhere.


----------



## Imprezzion

SunnyStefan said:


> 4400 MHz with *1T command rate* on a Z490 dual rank setup? I lurk several Intel RAM OC threads (OCN, ROG forums, hwLUXX) and this is probably the highest frequency dual rank 1T overclock on Z490 that I've seen.
> 
> For those who don't know, once you increase the frequency of a dual rank setup above ~ 4133 MHz, it becomes _extremely_ difficult to stabilize if you are still running a 1T command rate (on Z390/Z490 at least). It's almost like there's an invisible wall at this frequency that makes it very hard to pass any stress test unless you relax your command rate timing by raising it from 1T -> 2T.
> 
> Very impressive if it's actually stable (now pass 3 cycles of Anta's TM5 profile ).


Gotta love my 4 DIMM board. It won't even do 1T dual rank at 3800 let alone above 4k. It barely does it at 3600 XMP timings for my Trident-Z's..

Can anyone share some pointers for ODT's above 4500? I run basically 80-40-40 from 4000 up as it never gave me grief and works fine up to 4400C17 but I have the feeling they need to be changed for higher freqs. Same with the skews which I have never touched and just left Auto..

I am so close every time with for example 4533 18-18-18-39-370-2T but after like 28 ish minutes there's always that _one_ error in TM5 Anta777 and I hope changing skews and ODT's can finally make it stable maybe. I can't just yeet more volts at it as i'm already at the thermal limits of the voltage. 1.58-1.59v is all I can drive without them going above 49c even with fans on them.


----------



## Gen.

I will stabilize the 4400+ CR1 later on. Trace centering disabled! Here are the 4266 results. Tensions don't matter to me. I want to get the most out of cr1. Modules 3200 14-14 1.35 July 2021


----------



## SunnyStefan

Gen. said:


> I will stabilize the 4400+ CR1 later on. Trace centering disabled! Here are the 4266 results. Tensions don't matter to me. I want to get the most out of cr1. Modules 3200 14-14 1.35 July 2021


Hmm it's very odd that you managed to pass TM5 in that 1st screenshot despite your rather... _interesting_... RTL timings haha.
Are you doing anything unique or different in order to keep things stable with 1T? 
Maybe you found value in some obscure Asus training setting that everyone else is overlooking, or some witchcraft with never before used ODTs...
It would be awesome to see your settings in full (.txt file) once you've fine tuned your current overclock.


----------



## Gen.

Nothing unusual. Now I have installed bios 0088. I will share the settings, as I will do to the end. 1st screenshot - it was important for me that the system did not crash  Crooked, but slowly correcting))


----------



## YaqY

Gen. said:


> Nothing unusual. Now I have installed bios 0088. I will share the settings, as I will do to the end. 1st screenshot - it was important for me that the system did not crash  Crooked, but slowly correcting))


I cannot even boot over 4000 1T on dual rank interesting, can you please share the settings.


----------



## Gen.

Sorry, we are trying further  Maybe we can do 4500+


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I can run 4133MHz or 4100MHz with the same configuration.
4200 is unstable...
Is there any benefit of using one instead of the other if the results are almost the same?
I know DRAM FSB for IMC change from 100 to 133 but I don't know if there is any gain with this...











or 4100MHz


----------



## PhoenixMDA

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2520305
> 
> if you add + 0.01v dram. Then the memory can withstand heating up to 55 degrees.
> View attachment 2520255


Really great result, is it also possible to boot higher and
how is the reproducible stability with every boot with the unify X?
On Apex XII the reproducible stability out of the box isn´t so good.By me is 4666 with hard sub´s the end if i want to be stable in every boot(powerless power supply before boot) and only with many settings.
I think the unify X perhaps better as my apex.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k - SP88/89 - 51|46 - LLC2 - 1.48,
M13A - Bios 1007
Gskill F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB - 3866 [email protected]
SA/MCIO - 1.37(LLC3) / 1.38


----------



## Imprezzion

Exactly what I was afraid was going to happen is happening.. It's been quite warm here today and my ambients have gone quite high up. And now my RAM is woefully unstable lol.. I tested it with TM5 on a much colder day and also used it for quite a few days of gaming but now it gets way hotter and games start to freeze or even hard lock the PC as the RAM gets above 47c..

I dailed it back again to my "it's freaking hot" summer clocks. Basically means just dropping from 4400 to 4200 with basically the same timings but dropping DRAM voltage from 1.50v to 1.42v and also little less SA / IO and running slightly tighter tRDWR's and RTL/IO.

For some reason I cannot run AIDA anymore, all results always show 0mb/s lol. Even after updating to latest BETA. Still always 0mb/s.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Exactly what I was afraid was going to happen is happening.. It's been quite warm here today and my ambients have gone quite high up. And now my RAM is woefully unstable lol.. I tested it with TM5 on a much colder day and also used it for quite a few days of gaming but now it gets way hotter and games start to freeze or even hard lock the PC as the RAM gets above 47c..
> 
> I dailed it back again to my "it's freaking hot" summer clocks. Basically means just dropping from 4400 to 4200 with basically the same timings but dropping DRAM voltage from 1.50v to 1.42v and also little less SA / IO and running slightly tighter tRDWR's and RTL/IO.
> 
> For some reason I cannot run AIDA anymore, all results always show 0mb/s lol. Even after updating to latest BETA. Still always 0mb/s.
> 
> View attachment 2520734


I get that AIDA bug sometimes after changes too. Usually fixes itself upon restart. 

Have you cleared CMOS/load defaults lately?


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> I get that AIDA bug sometimes after changes too. Usually fixes itself upon restart.
> 
> Have you cleared CMOS/load defaults lately?


Yeah several times when switching between bios profiles or it freezes on POST due to failed training and I have to clr CMOS and reload profile.


----------



## Astral85

Does anybody know what thread error handler crash is in TM5 Universal2? I get these on multiple threads around the 15-20 min mark.


----------



## Imprezzion

K so RAM was the problem for me. Had constant game freezes and hard locks on 4400C17 @ 1.50v cause it got well above 47c in the summer "heat". Dropped down to 4200C17 @ 1.42v and now it's totally fine. Got up to 45.8c still but no crashes anymore in Horizon Zero Dawn at least.

It's just a shame my DIMM's need so much voltage to run any sort of good timings. Maybe a thermal pad swap? They are Trident-Z Neo's with stock heatsinks and RGB on of course. There is a 140mm blowing directly on them but it does kinda feed them CPU radiator warm air lol. Still cooler then no fan. But they hate anything over 47c on 4400+..or should I try what someone said previous page and just compensate with more voltage like 1.54v or something or different termination voltages or values or whatever.


----------



## Nizzen

RobertoSampaio said:


> I can run 4133MHz or 4100MHz with the same configuration.
> 4200 is unstable...
> Is there any benefit of using one instead of the other if the results are almost the same?
> I know DRAM FSB for IMC change from 100 to 133 but I don't know if there is any gain with this...
> 
> 
> View attachment 2520654
> 
> 
> or 4100MHz
> 
> View attachment 2520655


Both results is really bad, so use whatever 🤪

This is like Zen gen 1 performance 😅


----------



## sixty9sublime

Nizzen said:


> Both results is really bad, so use whatever 🤪
> 
> This is like Zen gen 1 performance 😅


We need a Rep- button for stupid posts like this.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> Both results is really bad, so use whatever 🤪
> 
> This is like Zen gen 1 performance 😅


Do you think the problem is my settings or my RAM chips...
I'm not good at overclocking RAM... LOL
How I know if I could do better?


----------



## robalm

RobertoSampaio said:


> I can run 4133MHz or 4100MHz with the same configuration.
> 4200 is unstable...
> Is there any benefit of using one instead of the other if the results are almost the same?
> I know DRAM FSB for IMC change from 100 to 133 but I don't know if there is any gain with this...
> 
> 
> View attachment 2520654
> 
> 
> or 4100MHz
> 
> View attachment 2520655



Your latency is insanely bad.
Get some decent B-die kit.


----------



## bscool

@RobertoSampaio If you haven't tried enable round trip latency and/or manually set IO/RTLs as low as possible like 7/7 or 8/8 69/69 etc... Best to set them manually so they don't drift on reboots and cause stability/performance issues.

Use Dragon Ball MSI Z490 XOC BIOS/Tools to view IO/RTL in windows. Select channel a and channel b in app. They should be be the same(or within 1) on both channels for best stability and perf. The app is portable so no install needed.


----------



## Nizzen

sixty9sublime said:


> We need a Rep- button for stupid posts like this.


I'm just telling the truth


----------



## fray_bentos

Imprezzion said:


> K so RAM was the problem for me. Had constant game freezes and hard locks on 4400C17 @ 1.50v cause it got well above 47c in the summer "heat". Dropped down to 4200C17 @ 1.42v and now it's totally fine. Got up to 45.8c still but no crashes anymore in Horizon Zero Dawn at least.
> 
> It's just a shame my DIMM's need so much voltage to run any sort of good timings. Maybe a thermal pad swap? They are Trident-Z Neo's with stock heatsinks and RGB on of course. There is a 140mm blowing directly on them but it does kinda feed them CPU radiator warm air lol. Still cooler then no fan. But they hate anything over 47c on 4400+..or should I try what someone said previous page and just compensate with more voltage like 1.54v or something or different termination voltages or values or whatever.


Glad you solved it, I was convinced it was RAM OC with the symptoms of that you were describing (matching my own past experiences). Glad that backing off 200 MHz fixed it. Can you run 4200 16-16-16-33-330 at 1.45 V? That's what I am on since I got my 10900KF. My RAM has hit 45- 47 C and seems OK, but might be cooler here in Scotland (20 C max of late).


----------



## RobertoSampaio

bscool said:


> @RobertoSampaio If you haven't tried enable round trip latency and/or manually set IO/RTLs as low as possible like 7/7 or 8/8 69/69 etc... Best to set them manually so they don't drift on reboots and cause stability/performance issues.
> 
> Use Dragon Ball MSI Z490 XOC BIOS/Tools to view IO/RTL in windows. Select channel a and channel b in app. They should be be the same(or within 1) on both channels for best stability and perf. The app is portable so no install needed.


I'll need some help with this....
Do you think I can try:

Lat_R0D1=69
Lat_R1D1=69
IOLAT_R0D1=8
IOLAT_R1D1=8

Is it?


----------



## Imprezzion

fray_bentos said:


> Glad you solved it, I was convinced it was RAM OC with the symptoms of that you were describing (matching my own past experiences). Glad that backing off 200 MHz fixed it. Can you run 4200 16-16-16-33-330 at 1.45 V? That's what I am on since I got my 10900KF. My RAM has hit 45- 47 C and seems OK, but might be cooler here in Scotland (20 C max of late).


It's about 24-27c here now, I have A/C but don't run it all day obviously so. Sun is on the terribly insulated roof here after 2 PM basically so towards the evening it can easily go 30c+ in here if I don't run the A/C.

I'll test it but I highly doubt it. It has always had problems running straight timings and prefers tRP and tRCD on CAS +1 or even +2 sometimes. This happens on C16 especially even tho 16-16-16-36 is 3600 XMP stock on this kit lol.


----------



## cstkl1

once your timings are solid with the correct sa/io

even 55c is fine on bdie


----------



## Imprezzion

What has the most impact in determining what tRDWR values one can run. I have always wondered that. I see many screenshots here of people with 4400Mhz running as low as 10 on all 4, meanwhile I can't even POST under 15's and it is only stable at 16's and even at 4200 it only goes down to _maybe_ 14's but that isn't fully stable @ 1.42v. Still needs 15's really. And i'm not trying to push super low tWR or anything. Usually 12 to 16.

EDIT: 4200 16-16-16-33-330 does not even POST at 1.45v. 16-17-17 does but it really will not run straight 16's at all no matter what I do at 1.45v. I got it to go to Windows at least on super loose secondaries and tertiaries at 1.50v but it's horribly unstable and can't pass even the first 5 minutes of TM5 Anta777 Extreme. They haven't even warmed up yet so no temp issue there. IO @ 1.25v SA @ 1.35v which is enough to run 4400C17 and 4533C18 so I might try lowering them as going higher doesn't really make much sense but k.


----------



## bscool

@RobertoSampaio You need to look at each channel(where is says Memory Channel in Dragon Ball), you will also see the values in the bios. You cannot set these in Windows, the app is just nice to be able to see them in Windows.

All 8 need to be set at once, 4 iol and 4 rtl(for dual rank). Just math so if iol is 13 and you set 8. That is 13-8=5 so take 5 off rtl. So if rtl shows 71-5=66. You need to look at each one as they may differ. You will know if they are not correct as it wont boot. They have to be set exactly right.

If you enable round trip latency it should tighten them automatically but you need to still check them and verify they are the same or within 1 of each other.

Note in the video he only sets 2 iol and 2 rtl because it is SR, if you have is DR you need to set 4 each.


----------



## Imprezzion

Nope. Error on 4200C16 after 47 minutes of TM5 even on 1.50v... I have to go higher I assume even tho that will also raise temps to a point it might get unstable. This hit 43.8c now but that's only because I have the A/C on and it's 19c here now.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Nope. Error on 4200C16 after 47 minutes of TM5 even on 1.50v... I have to go higher I assume even tho that will also raise temps to a point it might get unstable. This hit 43.8c now but that's only because I have the A/C on and it's 19c here now.


You really should dial in skews and slopes if you're on the edge of stability.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

bscool said:


> @RobertoSampaio You need to look at each channel(where is says Memory Channel in Dragon Ball), you will also see the values in the bios. You cannot set these in Windows, the app is just nice to be able to see them in Windows.
> 
> All 8 need to be set at once, 4 iol and 4 rtl(for dual rank). Just math so if iol is 13 and you set 8. That is 13-8=5 so take 5 off rtl. So if rtl shows 71-5=66. You need to look at each one as they may differ. You will know if they are not correct as it wont boot. They have to be set exactly right.
> 
> If you enable round trip latency it should tighten them automatically but you need to still check them and verify they are the same or within 1 of each other.
> 
> Note in the video he only sets 2 iol and 2 rtl because it is SR, if you have is DR you need to set 4 each.


Channel A differs from Channel B... And Channel B is different itself.

So I shall respect this initial values and subtract, let's say 5 point in each setting.... Is it?


----------



## bscool

@RobertoSampaio Yes, so if I figure right something like 8,8,8,8 66,66,67,68.

Maybe someone else with have some input but that looks like it should be correct to me. It might need to be tweaked/adjusted and experimented some if those don't work.

Edit, you dont take 5 from each, I used that as an example with your first rtl/iols. As an Example from above

*Chan A*
71 and 13 -5

*Chan B*
73 and 14 -6

71 and 11 -3

And you should get the 8,8,8,8 66,66,67,68

Also adia64 latency is dependent on how much stuff you have running in the back ground. A clean install of Windows vs stuff running make quite a difference. Don't let these guys peer pressure you into b die


----------



## RobertoSampaio

First "Clean Cmos" done... LOL

-5 does not boot ...

I tried:

Channel A
Lat_R0D1=66
Lat_R1D1=66
IOLAT_R0D1=8
IOLAT_R1D1=8

Channel B
Lat_R0D1=68
Lat_R1D1=66
IOLAT_R0D1=9
IOLAT_R1D1=6

I think I still don't understand this math.


----------



## bscool

So what did you try? -5 wont work, what I posted "should" if I can do math 

If you cant get it working try lowering the clock to something like 3600 just so you get the hang of setting iols and rtls. Once you figure it out it is "easy". Might need to increase a voltage(io/sa) or two depending on where you are.


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> You really should dial in skews and slopes if you're on the edge of stability.


Any pointers on how exactly to find the proper values? I normally run 80-40-40 ODT for 4400C17 which works but.. that is just because I copied it from one of you guys lol. I really don't know how skews and slopes work. Skews are always just auto lol.

I did get it to pass 1h TM5 on 4000 15-15-15-32-300-2T @ 1.48v with tight subtimings and RTL IO but bandwidth wise I have to sacrifice far too much compared to like, 4400C17 and latency isn't much better. Maybe 0.3ns (36.0 vs 36.3)...


----------



## bscool

@RobertoSampaio I doubt 6 will work for iol, I would guess you need to be in the 8,8,8,8 range. Even 7,7,7,7 might not work. On b die 2x16 I need 8s to even boots.

You might even try 

9,9,9,9

67,67,68,69


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Any pointers on how exactly to find the proper values? I normally run 80-40-40 ODT for 4400C17 which works but.. that is just because I copied it from one of you guys lol. I really don't know how skews and slopes work. Skews are always just auto lol.
> 
> I did get it to pass 1h TM5 on 4000 15-15-15-32-300-2T @ 1.48v with tight subtimings and RTL IO but bandwidth wise I have to sacrifice far too much compared to like, 4400C17 and latency isn't much better. Maybe 0.3ns (36.0 vs 36.3)...


Guess you missed my post the last time you asked this question. Check out these threads. Finding optimal skews and slopes may allow you to lower VDIMM, SA, and IO voltages.



sixty9sublime said:


> The Importance of Setting Slopes for Memory Overclocking
> 
> 
> As the title suggests setting rising and falling data slopes seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little If this seems familiar it's probably because I copied and pasted it from my last thread on skew control and changed a few words :p I spent an afternoon testing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Importance of Skew Control for Memory Overclocking
> 
> 
> As the title suggests skew control seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little I spent the day testing different settings to see just how much difference the skew settings make and it seems it won't even boot with many of them I can see now that it would be easy to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


----------



## RobertoSampaio

bscool said:


> @RobertoSampaio I doubt 6 will work for iol, I would guess you need to be in the 8,8,8,8 range. Even 7,7,7,7 might not work. On b die 2x16 I need 8s to even boots.
> 
> You might even try
> 
> 9,9,9,9
> 
> 67,67,68,69


You mean?

Channel A
Lat_R0D1=67 (71-4)
Lat_R1D1=67 (71-4)
IOLAT_R0D1=9 (13-4)
IOLAT_R1D1=9 (13-4)

Channel B
Lat_R0D1=68 (73-5)
Lat_R1D1=69 (71-2)
IOLAT_R0D1=9 (14-5)
IOLAT_R1D1=9 (11-2)


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Success !!!




























But latency still high... LOL


----------



## bscool

@RobertoSampaio Note these rtl/io are only for that ram frequency and tCL. If you change either of those you have to set rtl/io back to auto and then set them or check them after rebooting.


Good now you can try 8,8,8,8 ot 7,7,8,8 etc if you want and test stability etc as usual.

I would guess you will need to increase some voltages if you were on the edge of stability without the tighter rtl/io set.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I have 
DRAM=1.37v
VCCIO=1,19v
VCCSA=1,24v

I will test this new config and check If I have any errors...
I think I understood how to play with these settings...
But I don't believe I get about 40ns latency or anything like that...


----------



## bscool

@RobertoSampaio Is anything running in the background. Also different settings in bios effect this. Power saving stuff, VDt, virtual machine stuff...

I would think you should be able to get into the low to mid 40s if you have things set right. I am pretty sure I have seen people post on here in the low 40ns range without b die on 10th gen and 2x16.

Edit Maybe not the guy I was thinking of was on z390 with 4x16 but he did get into the 42ns range. _Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


----------



## RobertoSampaio

bscool said:


> @RobertoSampaio Is anything running in the background. Also different settings in bios effect this. Power saving stuff, VDt, virtual machine stuff...
> 
> I would think you should be able to get into the low to mid 40s if you have things set right. I am pretty sure I have seen people post on here in the low 40ns range without b die on 10th gen and 2x16.
> 
> Edit Maybe not the guy I was thinking of was on z390 with 4x16 but he did get into the 42ns range. _Official_ Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Do you think this is a valid setting ?

Channel A
Lat_R0D1=66 (71-5)
Lat_R1D1=66 (71-5)
IOLAT_R0D1=8 (13-5)
IOLAT_R1D1=8 (13-5)

Channel B
Lat_R0D1=67 (73-6)
Lat_R1D1=68 (71-3)
IOLAT_R0D1=8 (14-6)
IOLAT_R1D1=8 (11-3)

Better than 52ns... LOL


----------



## bscool

@RobertoSampaio Yep just keep doing that, dropping them as far as you can while being stable.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

bscool said:


> @RobertoSampaio Yep just keep doing that, dropping them as far as you can while being stable.


Tried:

Channel A
Lat_R0D1=65 (71-6)
Lat_R1D1=65 (71-6)
IOLAT_R0D1=7 (13-6)
IOLAT_R1D1=7 (13-6)

Channel B
Lat_R0D1=66 (73-7)
Lat_R1D1=67 (71-4)
IOLAT_R0D1=7 (14-7)
IOLAT_R1D1=7 (11-4) 

But the system does not boot...

Any guess what I can do?


----------



## sixty9sublime

RobertoSampaio said:


> Tried:
> 
> Channel A
> Lat_R0D1=65 (71-6)
> Lat_R1D1=65 (71-6)
> IOLAT_R0D1=7 (13-6)
> IOLAT_R1D1=7 (13-6)
> 
> Channel B
> Lat_R0D1=66 (73-7)
> Lat_R1D1=67 (71-4)
> IOLAT_R0D1=7 (14-7)
> IOLAT_R1D1=7 (11-4)
> 
> But the system does not boot...
> 
> Any guess what I can do?


Raising SA voltage for training RTLs is sometimes necessary. Once trained you can often back them down to original values.


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> Guess you missed my post the last time you asked this question. Check out these threads. Finding optimal skews and slopes may allow you to lower VDIMM, SA, and IO voltages.


Sorry yeah I did miss that one. Not that it really explains _how_ to set them other then "just try random numbers and see which is the most stable" which is what I usually do hehe.

And again in that post, tRDWR @ 10.. on 4600C16. Meanwhile I still cannot POST under 16 at 4400C17 or under 12 at 4200C16.. I really do not know how people do this. It's not like skews and slopes have such a massive impact that it can go from no POST to stable... At least not according to that post as the tests show errors in GSAT but regardless of settings it always POSTed.

EDIT: broke ma boot sector lol.. it was gone.. had to completely rebuild the UEFI sector from a USB installation drive with command line.. luckily I actually know how to do this lol.. it's working again... I was testing 4500 17-18-18 and it passed 1 hour so I tightened up a bunch of secondaries and tertiaries and then it BSOD during windows loading and never booted again lol.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Sorry yeah I did miss that one. Not that it really explains _how_ to set them other then "just try random numbers and see which is the most stable" which is what I usually do hehe.
> 
> And again in that post, tRDWR @ 10.. on 4600C16. Meanwhile I still cannot POST under 16 at 4400C17 or under 12 at 4200C16.. I really do not know how people do this. It's not like skews and slopes have such a massive impact that it can go from no POST to stable... At least not according to that post as the tests show errors in GSAT but regardless of settings it always POSTed.
> 
> EDIT: broke ma boot sector lol.. it was gone.. had to completely rebuild the UEFI sector from a USB installation drive with command line.. luckily I actually know how to do this lol.. it's working again... I was testing 4500 17-18-18 and it passed 1 hour so I tightened up a bunch of secondaries and tertiaries and then it BSOD during windows loading and never booted again lol.


I feel those posts detail the specifics just fine. Pretty straightforward but that's just me. Guess it's not for everyone.

Keep at it though, eventually you'll learn what your kit/mobo is capable of. Took me AWHILE!

Oddly enough, finding slopes was the easiest part of the whole process and had the biggest overall effect on my voltages and stability. As you're on MSI Z490 as well, check out the end of the slopes thread. Setting slopes on MSI is quite different and rather limited when compared to ASUS. You can only set offsets for the falling value of "0" or "1".


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> I feel those posts detail the specifics just fine. Pretty straightforward but that's just me. Guess it's not for everyone.
> 
> Keep at it though, eventually you'll learn what your kit/mobo is capable of. Took me AWHILE!
> 
> Oddly enough, finding slopes was the easiest part of the whole process and had the biggest overall effect on my voltages and stability. As you're on MSI Z490 as well, check out the end of the slopes thread. Setting slopes on MSI is quite different and rather limited when compared to ASUS. You can only set offsets for the falling value of "0" or "1".


Yeah that's what I kinda fell over, the names in the BIOS are different and not as many options. But. Good news. Tweaking them and the ODT values and such helped. I have never before been able to complete more then 40 minutes of TM5 Anta777 on 4500 and that was 4500C19, but now I got it to even do 4500C17 at a much lower DRAM voltage (just 1.500v) with sort of basic tweaked secondaries. Tertiaries are still stock Auto, RTL IO is manual but quite loose. PPD = 0. SA 1.40, IO 1.35. They also didn't struggle at all with the temperature even tho they run well into the 46c range. I'll let it complete the full 3 cycles and then during the night let it run with some tighter tertiaries and RTL / IO.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah that's what I kinda fell over, the names in the BIOS are different and not as many options. But. Good news. Tweaking them and the ODT values and such helped. I have never before been able to complete more then 40 minutes of TM5 Anta777 on 4500 and that was 4500C19, but now I got it to even do 4500C17 at a much lower DRAM voltage (just 1.500v) with sort of basic tweaked secondaries. Tertiaries are still stock Auto, RTL IO is manual but quite loose. PPD = 0. SA 1.40, IO 1.35. They also didn't struggle at all with the temperature even tho they run well into the 46c range. I'll let it complete the full 3 cycles and then during the night let it run with some tighter tertiaries and RTL / IO.
> 
> View attachment 2520998


Nice results! What slopes ended up working for you?

EDIT: Well I'm done... GL


----------



## Imprezzion

Dunno, I saved the profile and switched to my daily profile to play some GTA V races with a few buddies lol.

In AIDA this was very inefficient tho. 66GB read write and 39.0ns latency which is not really any better then even 4200..


----------



## heavyrain

Scrdvr said:


> View attachment 2519465
> 4800 16-16
> View attachment 2519463
> 4800 15-15


what is the cool condition


----------



## Imprezzion

I would've expected at least 70k r/w at 4500 but apparently not lol. Can't get any higher then 66k..

Well, off to 4600 I guess. Is there even a point to getting RAM frequency higher then even my cache frequencies? There has to be a point at which is stops scaling right. I can't really do much more then 4500 cache on this chip unless BCLK overclocking it to ~4680Mhz but that's all it'll do and only on x44 multi.

Btw. Is it "bad" training or bad in general if only 1 rank is 1 number off for RTL IO? I have 70/70/70/70 9/9/9/8 now on 4600.

This looks better. It did take a bit of DRAM voltage to make it work, and I still have to tweak the tertiaries a bit (and maybe RTL / IO) but at least this is stable so far lol.


----------



## fenriquez

Tried tightening my subs further for 4500mhz C16 and I'm happy with the results I got. Able to boot consistently with multiple GSAT and Karhu stress test passes between shutdowns and restarts where I had issues before. Will probably be my 24/7 setup since I'm happy with the voltages and will be water cooling my ram kit, its currently just having a fan blowing on the sticks with temperatures under 38C under stress.

BIOS Set: 1.55v DRAM 1.3v VCCIO 1.35v VCSSA


----------



## Imprezzion

fenriquez said:


> Tried tightening my subs further for 4500mhz C16 and I'm happy with the results I got. Able to boot consistently with multiple GSAT and Karhu stress test passes between shutdowns and restarts where I had issues before. Will probably be my 24/7 setup since I'm happy with the voltages and will be water cooling my ram kit, its currently just having a fan blowing on the sticks with temperatures under 38C under stress.
> 
> BIOS Set: 1.55v DRAM 1.3v VCCIO 1.35v VCSSA
> 
> View attachment 2521141


Looks great! Anything special you did to get those tRDWR's on 10? I mean, I have a worse board obviously as it's an 4 slot Ace, but I can't even get under 15 stable at 4266..


----------



## robalm

Imprezzion said:


> Looks great! Anything special you did to get those tRDWR's on 10? I mean, I have a worse board obviously as it's an 4 slot Ace, but I can't even get under 15 stable at 4266..


Higher tCWL will let you run lower tRDWR's.


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> Higher tCWL will let you run lower tRDWR's.


He's at tCWL 16 at 4500, I was on 18 when testing tRDWR at 4266 and it still won't go any lower then 15 lol. It boots fine as low as 9's, but anything under 15 throws errors after mere minutes. Must be my kit or something with the board that just won't stabilize that low. I know my kit is kinda... On the low end of B-Die in terms of overclocks but I cannot be bothered to spend a whole bunch of money on a better binned kit for barely any, if at all, real world performance benefit. I'll just stick to 4266 16-17-17 and call it there lol.


----------



## Scrdvr

heavyrain said:


> what is the cool condition


我代表茅山道士想问一下你是谁？


----------



## Gen.

I have almost finished tuning the APEX 12 + DR B-Die 2 * 16 4000 15-15-1T. 08/15/2021 I will post it here. Let me remind you that I am from Russia and we have different times.


----------



## lolhaxz

Does anyone have any insight into why XII Formula performs so badly with aggressive timing? ... you can basically use horrific defaults and only loose ~2GB/sec

I get that it's a 4 DIMM board and that's not a great starting point in terms of RTL/IO.. but I see others up in the 6X GB/sec range with looser timings on other 4 DIMM boards.

It won't do 4266 reliably, won't go any tighter than 16 tCL and _dr/_sg kind of picky also... doesn't like 7/7 either...

I typically test with memory scrambler off / Memtest - test 6 - shows wither its generally going to be stable across a few boots pretty much immediately.


----------



## YaqY

lolhaxz said:


> Does anyone have any insight into why XII Formula performs so badly with aggressive timing? ... you can basically use horrific defaults and only loose ~2GB/sec
> 
> I get that it's a 4 DIMM board and that's not a great starting point in terms of RTL/IO.. but I see others up in the 6X GB/sec range with looser timings on other 4 DIMM boards.
> 
> It won't do 4266 reliably, won't go any tighter than 16 tCL and _dr/_sg kind of picky also... doesn't like 7/7 either...
> 
> I typically test with memory scrambler off / Memtest - test 6 - shows wither its generally going to be stable across a few boots pretty much immediately.
> 
> View attachment 2521176


Is VT-D disabled in bios?


----------



## lolhaxz

YaqY said:


> Is VT-D disabled in bios?


OK - I am an idiot...

I had VT-D disabled. But I did not realise you also had to disable VMX.
Disabling VMX has improved it substantially...



















[edit] tRDRD_dr = 5 [/edit]


----------



## fray_bentos

Gen. said:


> I have almost finished tuning the APEX 12 + DR B-Die 2 * 16 4000 15-15-1T. 08/15/2021 I will post it here. Let me remind you that I am from Russia and we have different times.


Russian time zones span a range of 10 hours...


----------



## robalm

lolhaxz said:


> OK - I am an idiot...
> 
> I had VT-D disabled. But I did not realise you also had to disable VMX.
> Disabling VMX has improved it substantially...
> 
> View attachment 2521178
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521184


For me Disable/Enable VMX make no difference.


----------



## Gen.

Finally I finished 4000 to the end, I scored on IO / SA, there is no time to look for values below


----------



## RobertoSampaio

lolhaxz said:


> OK - I am an idiot...
> 
> I had VT-D disabled. But I did not realise you also had to disable VMX.
> Disabling VMX has improved it substantially...
> 
> View attachment 2521178
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521184
> 
> 
> [edit] tRDRD_dr = 5 [/edit]
> View attachment 2521202


We have the same MB and CPU...

Why AIDA says your chipset is "comet point z490" and mine is "comet point-H z490" ?










And what do you think I could change for a better RAM performance?


----------



## Imprezzion

What is better for general performance. Low tCWL with high tRDWR's or high tCWL with low tRDWR's..

I can run 14 tCWL with 15 tRDWR's or i can try for something like 18-20 tCWL for 12 tRDWR's or something.

EDIT: This is by far the most efficient combination of primary timings and frequency I can do. It needs 1.60v to run CL 15 but seems to have little to no issues with 1.60v temp wise. I will tweak the tertiaries and RTL/IO a little further but especially the RTL/IO are really hard to align / train properly. They fail training quite a lot with like 60/63/62/62/7/10/8/7 or weirdness like that. It took quite a while to make it train 60/60/62/62/8/8/8/8 and I don't think I can make it do anything lower without some tricks lol.










EDIT2: Slight tweak on the tWR, tRDRD's and tRDWR's. It won't handle tWRRD at 28/23 with tWTR at 6/1 unfortunately. That errored pretty quickly.
I might be able to get away with 10 tWR and ~280 tRFC but can't be bothered to test it right now.










AIDA has a great score as well! Judging by the R/W/C MB/s it is very efficient now with very high scores for the frequency and latency, for it being a full fat Windows boot with full bloat in the background is great as well. Notice the BCLK OC and weird RAM divider, it really really helps get the cache to >4600 as on 100 BCLK it will not in any way go over 4500 stable without random lock ups but with BCLK it does this close to 4700 without any issues. I tuned BCLK to allow 4200Mhz memory and 5100Mhz CPU and just set the cache to whatever that aligned to >4600 and it's been fine for the past few days.


----------



## ViTosS

Hello, I'm coming from Asus M11A and now with 10900kf and Unify Z490 I don't know exactly if the RTL for 2x8GB (A2 and B2 installed) is the 67/67 or 56/58 and same for IOL if it is 4/4 or 6/7, also are there new timings I should worry now with a 4 DIMM slot board? I mean I used to set 0 on Apex all the ones ending with _dr and _dd, but how should I set them now?

Thanks


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Hello, I'm coming from Asus M11A and now with 10900kf and Unify Z490 I don't know exactly if the RTL for 2x8GB (A2 and B2 installed) is the 67/67 or 56/58 and same for IOL if it is 4/4 or 6/7, also are there new timings I should worry now with a 4 DIMM slot board? I mean I used to set 0 on Apex all the ones ending with _dr and _dd, but how should I set them now?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 2521386


You're at 56/58/6/7 right now. 67/67 and 4/4 are your offset values. 

I also have the Unify with a 2x8gb kit and just set all unnecessary timings to 1.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> You're at 56/58/6/7 right now. 67/67 and 4/4 are your offset values.
> 
> I also have the Unify with a 2x8gb kit and just set all unnecessary timings to 1.
> 
> View attachment 2521394


I see, but for changing the RTL/IOL I should change the offset values? In Asus I just changed like RTL was 60 and IOL 7 and I changed 60 to 59 and IOL 7 to 6, it used to work flawless. If I increase 1 value in RTL I should increase in IOL and vice-versa, does this offset mean I need to control them by there?


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> I see, but for changing the RTL/IOL I should change the offset values? In Asus I just changed like RTL was 60 and IOL 7 and I changed 60 to 59 and IOL 7 to 6, it used to work flawless. If I increase 1 value in RTL I should increase in IOL and vice-versa, does this offset mean I need to control them by there?


You don't need to use offsets but they do work just fine. Easy way I've found is just to set RTL configuration to "Fixed" and reboot. Then look at the values and subtract whatever you need to get IOLs to 7/7. Then subtract that same value from RTLs. Then set configuration mode back to "Dynamic" and reboot.

What values are you trying to hit? Keep in mind MSI boards train RTL/IOL much differently than ASUS boards. They seem to like RTL values being about 2 apart and rarely do better than one apart.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> You don't need to use offsets but they do work just fine. Easy way I've found is just to set RTL configuration to "Fixed" and reboot. Then look at the values and subtract whatever you need to get IOLs to 7/7. Then subtract that same value from RTLs. Then set configuration mode back to "Dynamic" and reboot.
> 
> What values are you trying to hit? Keep in mind MSI boards train RTL/IOL much differently than ASUS boards. They seem to like RTL values being about 2 apart and rarely do better than one apart.


I was thinking if I could mantain my [email protected] profile with IOLs at 6/6... I remember the RTL in the Asus like that was 59/60


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> I was thinking if I could mantain my [email protected] profile with IOLs at 6/6... I remember the RTL in the Asus like that was 59/60


6/6 is definitely doable, 59/60 won't be possible however.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> 6/6 is definitely doable, 59/60 won't be possible however.


Ok I'm doing the initial adjustments, but these values are acting weird, I set a value and they change to another (like 1 lower or higher) even being set in BIOS at 8/4 (29/25) and then tRDWR_sg and dg at 12/12, I'm using dynamic setting for RTL/IOLs


----------



## ViTosS

Well I can't OC consistently like this, I changed DRAM voltagem and the values changed again, I have no idea how to set them fixed always, they keep changing for every voltage I change and don't obey what I set...


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Well I can't OC consistently like this, I changed DRAM voltagem and the values changed again, I have no idea how to set them fixed always, they keep changing for every voltage I change and don't obey what I set...


I'd recommend reading over the memtest helper DDR4 overclocking guide. I think you're struggling with some basics here.


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> Well I can't OC consistently like this, I changed DRAM voltagem and the values changed again, I have no idea how to set them fixed always, they keep changing for every voltage I change and don't obey what I set...


MSI boards only set consistent timings on Fixed mode also for the turn-around timings. 

Never manually set tWTR, always use tWRRD on Fixed mode. Setting 29/24 gives me 7/2 and 28/23 gives me 6/1. 

Same applies for RTL/IO. Use fixed mode and just set initials to the lowest it'll boot (for me that's 64/64/1/1) and use the offsets to drop the IOL further. If it trains like 60/60/62/62/6/6/8/8 you could use uneven offsets like I do or even initials. So initials are 64/64/1/1 and my offsets are 22/24 to make IOL line up. For RTL you could use initials 64/62 for example to make it run 60/60/60/60. Once you know the trick it's very easy on MSI to make stuff line up.

Important things on MSI, set power down mode to disabled with PPD0, manually set the ODT's. This last thing is very important as on Auto I have never had a value make any sense. It would do like 240/48/0 on Auto or whatever weirdness and be totally unstable. I now run 80/40/40 manually and that's fine for 4200 as you can see above.

I also never set unused timings to 1 or 0 as that has the 1% chance of weirdness in training.

Also, when overclocking and testing training first, set memory fast boot to disabled, not auto. Once training is successful and stable set to enabled or no no training mode so it won't randomly change.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> I'd recommend reading over the memtest helper DDR4 overclocking guide. I think you're struggling with some basics here.


Nah I found out what was happenin, had tô set fixed mode for the Turnaround timings, It was on auto so they kept changing


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> MSI boards only set consistent timings on Fixed mode also for the turn-around timings.
> 
> Never manually set tWTR, always use tWRRD on Fixed mode. Setting 29/24 gives me 7/2 and 28/23 gives me 6/1.
> 
> Same applies for RTL/IO. Use fixed mode and just set initials to the lowest it'll boot (for me that's 64/64/1/1) and use the offsets to drop the IOL further. If it trains like 60/60/62/62/6/6/8/8 you could use uneven offsets like I do or even initials. So initials are 64/64/1/1 and my offsets are 22/24 to make IOL line up. For RTL you could use initials 64/62 for example to make it run 60/60/60/60. Once you know the trick it's very easy on MSI to make stuff line up.
> 
> Important things on MSI, set power down mode to disabled with PPD0, manually set the ODT's. This last thing is very important as on Auto I have never had a value make any sense. It would do like 240/48/0 on Auto or whatever weirdness and be totally unstable. I now run 80/40/40 manually and that's fine for 4200 as you can see above.
> 
> I also never set unused timings to 1 or 0 as that has the 1% chance of weirdness in training.
> 
> Also, when overclocking and testing training first, set memory fast boot to disabled, not auto. Once training is successful and stable set to enabled or no no training mode so it won't randomly change.


Thanks for the tips, Im about to pass 4200cl16-16-16-36 1.48v and 1.20/1.25 IO/SA, at 61 and 62 RTL and 7-7 IOL, TM5 Anta Extreme (on the 3rd cycle atm). I tried manually to 60-61 RTL and IOL to 6-6 no post/boot, not sure If It understood your explanation on initials and offset...


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> Thanks for the tips, Im about to pass 4200cl16-16-16-36 1.48v and 1.20/1.25 IO/SA, at 61 and 62 RTL and 7-7 IOL, TM5 Anta Extreme (on the 3rd cycle atm). I tried manually to 60-61 RTL and IOL to 6-6 no post/boot, not sure If It understood your explanation on initials and offset...


61/62/7/7 is totally acceptable for 4200C16. You could try initial offset (the top 2 values) 22/22 to get 61/62/6/6.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> 61/62/7/7 is totally acceptable for 4200C16. You could try initial offset (the top 2 values) 22/22 to get 61/62/6/6.


Increasing iol offset does nothing for performance when rtls are unchanged.


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> Increasing iol offset does nothing for performance when rtls are unchanged.


It doesn't? Learned something again hehe. I don't really know how RTL/IO specifically works and influences actual performance, just kinda know how to set them. I run whatever RTL is the lowest bootable value and is stable in TM5 and usually align the IO as low as it'll go. For 4400C17 that is 66/66/6/6 for me and for 4533C18 that is 67/68/7/8.


----------



## D-Dow

What would be better 4x8 3600 15-15-15-36 or Trident Z or 2x16 4000 16-19-19-39? (both at default XMP)


----------



## Imprezzion

D-Dow said:


> What would be better 4x8 3600 15-15-15-36 or Trident Z or 2x16 4000 16-19-19-39? (both at default XMP)


2x16, purely because dual rank itself has a performance benefit. And the frequency and CAS are by far the most important and the 2nd and 3rd tkmngs aren't all that important at XMP speeds.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> 61/62/7/7 is totally acceptable for 4200C16. You could try initial offset (the top 2 values) 22/22 to get 61/62/6/6.


Ok so this is how I've been using and it's set, passed TM5 Anta777 Extreme1, what do you suggest to change for IOL 6/6?

Also you can see the power down option, should I set to PPD? Is it PPD that lower the latency a lot? The other PPD in the same menu should I change it to 0?

And the Rtt Nom and Park are being set to auto, should I change that too?


----------



## D-Dow

Imprezzion said:


> 2x16, purely because dual rank itself has a performance benefit. And the frequency and CAS are by far the most important and the 2nd and 3rd tkmngs aren't all that important at XMP speeds.


Thanks. It on the way haven't received from Newegg yet. I saw only one better (that was not a ridiculous $500 because it was c14 but you'd have to do 1.55 voltage which I'd never wanna do) which had 16-16-16-36 but because this was 30% off I chomped at the bit quick making it $150 cheaper just because it's 16-19-19-39 and not 16-16-16-36. So someone's paying $150 more just to get the last timings of 16-16-36.

It's quite possible that Newegg could be? re-selling one that was returned (so not new, just didn't say "open box") to be able to sell it so cheap at 30% off. It's sold out now.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> It doesn't? Learned something again hehe. I don't really know how RTL/IO specifically works and influences actual performance, just kinda know how to set them. I run whatever RTL is the lowest bootable value and is stable in TM5 and usually align the IO as low as it'll go. For 4400C17 that is 66/66/6/6 for me and for 4533C18 that is 67/68/7/8.





ViTosS said:


> Ok so this is how I've been using and it's set, passed TM5 Anta777 Extreme1, what do you suggest to change for IOL 6/6?
> 
> Also you can see the power down option, should I set to PPD? Is it PPD that lower the latency a lot? The other PPD in the same menu should I change it to 0?
> 
> And the Rtt Nom and Park are being set to auto, should I change that too?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521464
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521465
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521466
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521467
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521468


Set PPD = 0, don't worry about the other settings. Should bring your latency down to around 37.6.

To lower IOL to 6/6 set both IOL init values to 3, reboot. Check. Set to 2, reboot. Check etc. Until you get the value you're looking for. But as someone said above it likely will not help performance wise unless your RTLs also decrease when lowering IOL init.

WR, NOM, & Park values are often kit and board specific. Check out the thread over in Intel - CPU, "The importance of setting skews in memory overclocking". People often just copy other peoples values and have no idea what they're doing because they don't want to put in the time to find the right values for their kit.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> Set PPD = 0, don't worry about the other settings. Should bring your latency down to around 37.6.
> 
> To lower IOL to 6/6 set both IOL init values to 3, reboot. Check. Set to 2, reboot. Check etc. Until you get the value you're looking for. But as someone said above it likely will not help performance wise unless your RTLs also decrease when lowering IOL init.
> 
> WR, NOM, & Park values are often kit and board specific. Check out the thread over in Intel - CPU, "The importance of setting skews in memory overclocking". People often just copy other peoples values and have no idea what they're doing because they don't want to put in the time to find the right values for their kit.


Thank you, I will do that, yea the latency is higher than in my previous 9900ks at 5.0/4.7Ghz I could get it to 34.7ns (IOLs 6 btw), well if I can't get the benefit from IOLs 6 at that init values method I won't bother trying it out, and WR, NOM and Park should I worry with them since I'm already stable like this? Will they reduce my latency or increase my bandwidth? Also if I set PPD to 0 do I need to recheck stability?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Thank you, I will do that, yea the latency is higher than in my previous 9900ks at 5.0/4.7Ghz I could get it to 34.7ns (IOLs 6 btw), well if I can't get the benefit from IOLs 6 at that init values method I won't bother trying it out, and WR, NOM and Park should I worry with them since I'm already stable like this? Will they reduce my latency or increase my bandwidth? Also if I set PPD to 0 do I need to recheck stability?
> 
> Thanks for the help!


Yeah it's normal for latency on 9th gen to be much lower than 10th & 11th. As for running 6/6 go ahead and try it out, just benchmark afterwards and see if it makes a difference for you. In my testing, running lower than 7/7 for IOLs did nothing but make my AIDA scores less consistent. Latency and bandwidth would bounce around a fair amount.

Finding the right skews (WR, NOM, and PARK) will stabilize your OC in general, and often allow for easier tightening of timings. Setting PPD to zero won't effect stability.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> Yeah it's normal for latency on 9th gen to be much lower than 10th & 11th. As for running 6/6 go ahead and try it out, just benchmark afterwards and see if it makes a difference for you. In my testing, running lower than 7/7 for IOLs did nothing but make my AIDA scores less consistent. Latency and bandwidth would bounce around a fair amount.
> 
> Finding the right skews (WR, NOM, and PARK) will stabilize your OC in general, and often allow for easier tightening of timings. Setting PPD to zero won't effect stability.


Huge improvement in latency with PPD 0


----------



## ViTosS

@sixty9sublime @Imprezzion something weird is happening, possibly the WR, NOM and PARK thing? I rebooted and set PPD 0 and fired TM5 and instantly errors, went back to PPD AUTO and same problem, I didn't change anything in my CPU/RAM OC from yesterday were it completed TM5 without problem, maybe it's related to these values I have to manually set? RTT WR (CHA/D1), RTT PARK (CHA/D1), RTT WR (CHB/D1) and RTT PARK (CHB/D1), what should I set to what?

Thanks.


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> @sixty9sublime @Imprezzion something weird is happening, possibly the WR, NOM and PARK thing? I rebooted and set PPD 0 and fired TM5 and instantly errors, went back to PPD AUTO and same problem, I didn't change anything in my CPU/RAM OC from yesterday were it completed TM5 without problem, maybe it's related to these values I have to manually set? RTT WR (CHA/D1), RTT PARK (CHA/D1), RTT WR (CHB/D1) and RTT PARK (CHB/D1), what should I set to what?
> 
> Thanks.


Well it's kinda hard to speculate, could be numerous things but skews shouldn't be the issue. MSI Z490 boards have a tendency to train differently or "drift" at times and that can lead to being perfectly stable one day to erroring within seconds the next. I'd recommend setting Fast Boot to "No Training" once you've locked in RTLs and made all major changes. The "Slow Training" option is also wise to use initially.


----------



## Imprezzion

That. And skews make a big difference. For example: 80-40-40 for me is fully stable, 240-0-60 (Auto) isn't at all. I do use fast boot enabled but only after I locked all the settings manually so it can't drift anymore.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> That. And skews make a big difference. For example: 80-40-40 for me is fully stable, 240-0-60 (Auto) isn't at all. I do use fast boot enabled but only after I locked all the settings manually so it can't drift anymore.


When you mean 80-40-40 its related to what specific setting there? Can you show me a screenshot from BIOS for reference? Mine seems to AUTO at 240, 80 and 0, what is bugging my mund is that I was stable yesterday and today not... Im testing now higher vDRAM and IO/SA, but who knows tomorrow the same thing will happen? I have set fast boot to no training and also disabled that Power down thing, PPD went to 0 automatically after that.


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> When you mean 80-40-40 its related to what specific setting there? Can you show me a screenshot from BIOS for reference? Mine seems to AUTO at 240, 80 and 0, what is bugging my mund is that I was stable yesterday and today not... Im testing now higher vDRAM and IO/SA, but who knows tomorrow the same thing will happen? I have set fast boot to no training and also disabled that Power down thing, PPD went to 0 automatically after that.


Would be a lot easier if you just read over the thread I mentioned... Importance of Skew Control


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> Would be a lot easier if you just read over the thread I mentioned... https://www.overclock.net/threads/the-importance-of-skew-control-for-memory-overclocking.1774358/


I actually read that, truly did, but those seems other settings and not RTT, NOM and PARK, if I have fast boot to no training and power down disabled and find a stable setting in BIOS for my RAM OC I dont need to worry about it changing when I reboot and the days passes, right?


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> I actually read that, truly did, but those seems other settings and not RTT, NOM and PARK, if I have fast boot to no training and power down disabled and find a stable setting in BIOS for my RAM OC I dont need to worry about it changing when I reboot and the days passes, right?


You obviously didn't read the thread if you failed to realize the values mentioned are indeed wr, nom, and park.

No training is exactly what it means. It will not try to retrain, so make sure all changes are stable before flipping the switch.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> You obviously didn't read the thread if you failed to realize the values mentioned are indeed wr, nom, and park.
> 
> No training is exactly what it means. It will not try to retrain, so make sure all changes are stable before flipping the switch.


I have um my BIOS RTT, NOM and PARK and in the other separated section is CMD, Data, Ctrl and Clk from the first page post by the OP, he only says the way he found to optimize those values


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> I have um my BIOS RTT, NOM and PARK and in the other separated section is CMD, Data, Ctrl and Clk from the first page post by the OP, he only says the way he found to optimize those values


You're reading the post regarding slopes, not skews. But I think about done with this merry go round lol


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> You're reading the post regarding slopes, not skews. But I think about done with this merry go round lol


My bad I was in the wrong thread, this one: The Importance of Setting Slopes for Memory Overclocking

And when you said to check yours I was getting error to open the page (in my phone), now I finally saw the thread you wanted to show me, thanks and sorry for that, seem the order is WR, PARK and NOM, right? So I will try a couple of these values, I can't make my OC stable again and I don't even know why


----------



## ViTosS

Well it doesn't make any sense but I found out why the OC was unstable, actually the RTL/IOL 61-62/7-7 was the problem, tried many many things to get to that, surprinsingly and I don't know how it was able to pass one time and never again, I just let the RTL/IOLs on fixed mode it was a huge value like 14-13 for IOLs but passed without problem, now I will try to tune again 8/8 instead of 7/7 for IOLs.


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Well it doesn't make any sense but I found out why the OC was unstable, actually the RTL/IOL 61-62/7-7 was the problem, tried many many things to get to that, surprinsingly and I don't know how it was able to pass one time and never again, I just let the RTL/IOLs on fixed mode it was a huge value like 14-13 for IOLs but passed without problem, now I will try to tune again 8/8 instead of 7/7 for IOLs.


61/63 7/7 is what the board likes at C16. I'd bet that will fix your issues.

And yes fixed mode sets loose values that can be easily tightened with simple math.


----------



## heavyrain

Scrdvr said:


> 我代表茅山道士想问一下你是谁？


twfox


----------



## pipes

how many have tried these ram? are there many differences, especially in overclocking?

F4-4800C19D-16GVKC
F4-4800C17D-16GVK

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## CoraDaelu

robalm said:


> For me Disable/Enable VMX make no difference.


Where is vmx option? I can not find it


----------



## robalm

CoraDaelu said:


> Where is vmx option? I can not find it


Under "cpu configuration" on Asus.
And it's needed if you use virtual machines.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> 61/63 7/7 is what the board likes at C16. I'd bet that will fix your issues.
> 
> And yes fixed mode sets loose values that can be easily tightened with simple math.


Well I was wrong, for some reason I was able to pass with RTL/IOLs on FIXED but I tried again and the errors came back just like when I passed RTL/IOLs more tightened, I have no clue what is happening, the board trains RTL/IOLs 61-62 and 7-7 on AUTO, does that mean it's stable if board auto trains it? But it doesn't seem that this is the cause affecting my stability, there are times I can pass and others I don't and I'm not changing anything in BIOS, also I tried with manually WR, PARK, NOM but doesn't fix the problem...


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Well I was wrong, for some reason I was able to pass with RTL/IOLs on FIXED but I tried again and the errors came back just like when I passed RTL/IOLs more tightened, I have no clue what is happening, the board trains RTL/IOLs 61-62 and 7-7 on AUTO, does that mean it's stable if board auto trains it? But it doesn't seem that this is the cause affecting my stability, there are times I can pass and others I don't and I'm not changing anything in BIOS, also I tried with manually WR, PARK, NOM but doesn't fix the problem...


Yes it should be stable at 61/62 7/7, that's great for auto training. I just don't think your voltages are anywhere close to figured out yet.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> Yes it should be stable at 61/62 7/7, that's great for auto training. I just don't think your voltages are anywhere close to figured out yet.


They are, otherwise I wouldn't have passed TM5, like now I passed again with FIXED and went back to 61/62 7/7 and I couldn't, also the board trained another FIXED different from the usual, I couldn't pass too... Maybe my board is fault, I tried many voltages already, nothing seems to fix this, maybe I will have to go [email protected]

Also when I clear CMOS the board on the initial post/boot gets stuck on A1 code and I have to power down and power up again so it finally boot, I don't know if that is normal behavior, getting stuck code A1 after a clear cmos....


----------



## ViTosS

Also if you can clarify for me, when ppl say they use 80/40/40 it is RTT WR, PARK and NOM in this order, right? So I need to set that pair of values RTT WR 80, RTT PARK 40 and RTT NOM 40?


----------



## ViTosS

[email protected] with all the timings on AUTO just gave me error in TM5 15 min, makes no sense...


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> They are, otherwise I wouldn't have passed TM5, like now I passed again with FIXED and went back to 61/62 7/7 and I couldn't, also the board trained another FIXED different from the usual, I couldn't pass too... Maybe my board is fault, I tried many voltages already, nothing seems to fix this, maybe I will have to go [email protected]
> 
> Also when I clear CMOS the board on the initial post/boot gets stuck on A1 code and I have to power down and power up again so it finally boot, I don't know if that is normal behavior, getting stuck code A1 after a clear cmos....


Alright, since you're still having issues with setting RTLs. Try setting RTL config to "dynamic" and just boot into windows atleast 5 times. Record your RTLs/IOLs each time. If you notice lots of odd trainings you're likely too low on your SA/IO voltages. Sometimes you need to bump those up to train properly. For my 4400 C16 profile I had to bump SA/IO voltages up to 1.39/1.34 but once RTLs trained properly I was able to back them down to 1.36/1.32 after setting fast boot to "No Training".


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Also if you can clarify for me, when ppl say they use 80/40/40 it is RTT WR, PARK and NOM in this order, right? So I need to set that pair of values RTT WR 80, RTT PARK 40 and RTT NOM 40?
> 
> View attachment 2521575


Yeah that post is quite confusing since it doesn't list the order of WR, NOM, and PARK, even though it is clarified towards the end of the thread... Personally I'm running Rtt Wr 80, Rtt Nom 60, Rtt Park 40 with my 2x8gb kit.

You could also be getting these random errors from temp issues.


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> how many have tried these ram? are there many differences, especially in overclocking?
> 
> F4-4800C19D-16GVKC
> F4-4800C17D-16GVK
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Maybe Is wring Thread

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Judging by the symptoms it sounds like either IO or SA not being high enough for the cache + ram OC. For 4200 I need about 1.30v SA 1.25v IO, for 4400 I need 1.35v SA 1.25v IO and for 4533 1.45v SA 1.40v IO (so that doesn't scale as well anymore and is the limit for my IMC)


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> Judging by the symptoms it sounds like either IO or SA not being high enough for the cache + ram OC. For 4200 I need about 1.30v SA 1.25v IO, for 4400 I need 1.35v SA 1.25v IO and for 4533 1.45v SA 1.40v IO (so that doesn't scale as well anymore and is the limit for my IMC)





sixty9sublime said:


> Alright, since you're still having issues with setting RTLs. Try setting RTL config to "dynamic" and just boot into windows atleast 5 times. Record your RTLs/IOLs each time. If you notice lots of odd trainings you're likely too low on your SA/IO voltages. Sometimes you need to bump those up to train properly. For my 4400 C16 profile I had to bump SA/IO voltages up to 1.39/1.34 but once RTLs trained properly I was able to back them down to 1.36/1.32 after setting fast boot to "No Training".


Things that I tried without success:

Let IO/SA on AUTO (reachead 1.28v and 1.40v respectively), failed TM5 (the same preset that passed time ago with IO 1.20v and SA 1.25v)

Let all the timings on AUTO except the four primaries

Downclock to [email protected] with all timings again on AUTO except the four primaries

Bump vDIMM from 1.48 (passed already at 50c maximum temp each stick time ago in TM5) to 1.52v (gave errors faster than 1.48v)

Cool down the sticks to 35-40c during TM5, didn't work too

Multiple Clear CMOS, CPU back at stock (already validated the past OC), PPD 0 and AUTO, Power Down AUTO and Disabled, manually set RTL/IOLs to a lot of values, also let the board automatically set it multiple times with FIXED/AUTO/DYNAMIC, manually set WR, PARK and NOM to the AUTO values the board always set, manually tried multiple presets for them like 80/48/0, 80/40/40, etc

Went back and forth to latest BIOS and previous one from latest

Solution I found at the moment:

Run [email protected]5-15-15-35 1.35v (the XMP) with tight subtimings and let IO/SA on AUTO (1.18v and 1.25v respectively in HWiNFO64), it passed TM5 without problem and seems it isn't happening the random problem again like this.

Either my CPU IMC is garbage at all or my mobo or I don't know, the weirdest thing is that I was able to pass 2 times the first profile ([email protected]) with RTL/IOLs at 61-62 7-7 and FIXED mode (way higher values this way) and never was able again, even not changing ANYTHING in Windows or BIOS....


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Things that I tried without success:
> 
> Let IO/SA on AUTO (reachead 1.28v and 1.40v respectively), failed TM5 (the same preset that passed time ago with IO 1.20v and SA 1.25v)
> 
> Let all the timings on AUTO except the four primaries
> 
> Downclock to [email protected] with all timings again on AUTO except the four primaries
> 
> Bump vDIMM from 1.48 (passed already at 50c maximum temp each stick time ago in TM5) to 1.52v (gave errors faster than 1.48v)
> 
> Cool down the sticks to 35-40c during TM5, didn't work too
> 
> Multiple Clear CMOS, CPU back at stock (already validated the past OC), PPD 0 and AUTO, Power Down AUTO and Disabled, manually set RTL/IOLs to a lot of values, also let the board automatically set it multiple times with FIXED/AUTO/DYNAMIC, manually set WR, PARK and NOM to the AUTO values the board always set, manually tried multiple presets for them like 80/48/0, 80/40/40, etc
> 
> Went back and forth to latest BIOS and previous one from latest
> 
> Solution I found at the moment:
> 
> Run [email protected] 1.35v (the XMP) with tight subtimings and let IO/SA on AUTO (1.18v and 1.25v respectively in HWiNFO64), it passed TM5 without problem and seems it isn't happening the random problem again like this.
> 
> Either my CPU IMC is garbage at all or my mobo or I don't know, the weirdest thing is that I was able to pass 2 times the first profile ([email protected]) with RTL/IOLs at 61-62 7-7 and FIXED mode (way higher values this way) and never was able again, even not changing ANYTHING in Windows or BIOS....


What bios are you running on the Unify? CMOS battery check? As for temperatures, 50C is also fairly warm for b-die. You might have a temp sensitive die. Many other b-die owners have noticed temp instability even at 44-48C. Running a High tREFI, low tRFC, high IO, or lower RTL/IOLs will also increase DRAM temps.

Finding the right slopes for your kit may also help with stability while running high DRAM temps.

Wish we could help ya more but I have a feeling you'll just have to work through it. BTW check out the Z490 Unify thread, plenty of good info in there that might help.


----------



## Imprezzion

Try one thing. Try 4200 16-17-17-35-320-2T in stead of straight 16's. My kit will not in any way run straight 16's on 4200 but does fine on 16-17-17 and even 15-17-17 with enough voltage. Maybe yours is the same?

Or, just skip 4200 and try what it does on 4400 at like 17-17-17-36-340-2T. That does run fine for me at least only 4200C15 is much faster latency wise even if it needs 1.60v. It isn't temp sensitive for me either. Runs fine at 48c.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> What bios are you running on the Unify? CMOS battery check? As for temperatures, 50C is also fairly warm for b-die. You might have a temp sensitive die. Many other b-die owners have noticed temp instability even at 44-48C. Running a High tREFI, low tRFC, high IO, or lower RTL/IOLs will also increase DRAM temps.
> 
> Finding the right slopes for your kit may also help with stability while running high DRAM temps.
> 
> Wish we could help ya more but I have a feeling you'll just have to work through it. BTW check out the Z490 Unify thread, plenty of good info in there that might help.


I've run A80 and A90, the last two ones available, did a CMOS Clear only through the back panel I/O in the mobo, I already tested with low temperatures like 35C


Imprezzion said:


> Try one thing. Try 4200 16-17-17-35-320-2T in stead of straight 16's. My kit will not in any way run straight 16's on 4200 but does fine on 16-17-17 and even 15-17-17 with enough voltage. Maybe yours is the same?
> Or, just skip 4200 and try what it does on 4400 at like 17-17-17-36-340-2T. That does run fine for me at least only 4200C15 is much faster latency wise even if it needs 1.60v. It isn't temp sensitive for me either. Runs fine at 48c.


I tried 4400CL17-17-17-37 with tight subtimings, was able to pass TM5 but only if the stick doesn't reach 47C+, I got it 1.52 and tried 1.54v to let them heat more than that but I gained only 1-2C stability with that increase.


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> I've run A80 and A90, the last two ones available, did a CMOS Clear only through the back panel I/O in the mobo, I already tested with low temperatures like 35C
> 
> I tried 4400CL17-17-17-37 with tight subtimings, was able to pass TM5 but only if the stick doesn't reach 47C+, I got it 1.52 and tried 1.54v to let them heat more than that but I gained only 1-2C stability with that increase.


Yeah 4400C17 is sensitive at 1.50v, good up to 46.5, as soon as it hits 47 it errors, but 4200C15 1.6v doesn't care about temps. I turned off my RAM fan during TM5 and got them as hot as 55.6c but no errors.


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> how many have tried these ram? are there many differences, especially in overclocking?
> 
> F4-4800C19D-16GVKC
> F4-4800C17D-16GVK
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> how many have tried these ram? are there many differences, especially in overclocking?
> 
> F4-4800C19D-16GVKC
> F4-4800C17D-16GVK
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


F4-4800C19D-16GVKC has much looser timings(19-28-28) but should clock higher on 11th gen like 5000-5333+.

F4-4800C17D-16GVK Is b die and will have lower latency(17-19-19).

Both kits are more aimed for 11th gen. F4-4800C17D-16GVK is better in my opinion and much more expensive.

To me the best all around for 10th gen or 11th is 2x16 b die if you want to OC mem. Hard to beat 4400c16 2x16 b die on z490 or 3733-3866c14 z590.


----------



## pipes

I'm interested to try this module: m378a1g44ab0-cwe it's a-die
No body have tried this ram?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> F4-4800C19D-16GVKC has much looser timings(19-28-28) but should clock higher on 11th gen like 5000-5333+.
> 
> F4-4800C17D-16GVK Is b die and will have lower latency(17-19-19).
> 
> Both kits are more aimed for 11th gen. F4-4800C17D-16GVK is better in my opinion and much more expensive.
> 
> To me the best all around for 10th gen or 11th is 2x16 b die if you want to OC mem. Hard to beat 4400c16 2x16 b die on z490 or 3733-3866c14 z590.


So there ARE kits that run 1.60v on XMP. Makes me feel better running 1.60v on my 3600C16 kit to push 4200C15 lol. I don't think my 10th gen IMC can handle 4800 otherwise I would give it a shot to see if my kit can handle those timings at 4800 lol.


----------



## pipes

Of u put xmp profilo can find at that frequency

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> Of u put xmp profilo can find at that frequency
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I think my BIOS had the memory try it! profiles for 4800C17 but I don't know if that profile has the proper sub timings. I'd prefer to do manual.

What kind of IO and SA voltages should I expect at 4800C17 if it even wants to pass POST. I'm assuming something in the neighborhood of 1.45v SA 1.35v IO?

EDIT: cannot get it to pass training on POST. Usually ends in memory overclocks failed POST screen. Even at 1.50v SA 1.40v IO 1.65v DRAM and super super loose secondaries and many different skew settings it will not POST. 4800 can technically POST and even boot windows but only on 19-21-21 not 17-19-19..

This is the highest frequency with 17-19-19-39 that will actually kind of reliably boot with 1.45v SA 1.35v IO 1.62v DRAM.


----------



## pipes

Imprezzion said:


> I think my BIOS had the memory try it! profiles for 4800C17 but I don't know if that profile has the proper sub timings. I'd prefer to do manual.
> 
> What kind of IO and SA voltages should I expect at 4800C17 if it even wants to pass POST. I'm assuming something in the neighborhood of 1.45v SA 1.35v IO?
> 
> EDIT: cannot get it to pass training on POST. Usually ends in memory overclocks failed POST screen. Even at 1.50v SA 1.40v IO 1.65v DRAM and super super loose secondaries and many different skew settings it will not POST. 4800 can technically POST and even boot windows but only on 19-21-21 not 17-19-19..
> 
> This is the highest frequency with 17-19-19-39 that will actually kind of reliably boot with 1.45v SA 1.35v IO 1.62v DRAM.
> 
> View attachment 2521781


I can only give you reason that manually setting an oc is good and right


----------



## Imprezzion

I did a bit of testing with TestMem5 and while my IMC will do 4600 efficiency is totally out of the window. It needs sky high voltages and bandwidth and latency are actually worse then 4400C17 by quite a lot because it can't handle any sort of secondary and tertiary timings tweaks. They have to be super super loose to stand a chance of passing. It did 40 minutes fine but had to run tRFC into the 600's and very high tRDWR, tWR and tCWL to force it to pass which results in terrible AIDA scores unfortunately.

I'm still going to stick to 4200C15 as that has by far the lowest latency (high 36ns range) and bandwidth is quite close to what I can do at higher frequencies so unless I can somehow make 4400 16-17-17 work with very tight subs it won't be faster.


----------



## ViTosS

Well I was able to tune 4200CL16 again, this time I only changed all timings and then soon I passed TM5 I set No Training for Memory Fast Boot and I don't pretend to touch the RAM OC never again, I was reading Unify thread and there was few people complaining about losing stability without changing anything, just rebooting etc like I was having, today in the morning I had a A1 code in BIOS it was stuck to post at code A1 (the same I have when I Clear CMOS and have to restart again), I just had to power down and power up again, but my RAM OC remains stable, it was the first non boot that I had after many successful ones.


----------



## nikolaus85

for all the unify users: try to set the late command training and early command training to off and on for cl16 and viceversa for cl17. Since i did that i am rocksolid with tm5 extreme preset 4400 cl 17 17 17 36 trefi max (34.7 latency).

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sixty9sublime

nikolaus85 said:


> for all the unify users: try to set the late command training and early command training to off and on for cl16 and viceversa for cl17. Since i did that i am rocksolid with tm5 extreme preset 4400 cl 17 17 17 36 trefi max (34.7 latency).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Interesting. Would this have the same effect on both SR & DR kits?


----------



## nikolaus85

sixty9sublime said:


> Interesting. Would this have the same effect on both SR & DR kits?


i have sr patriot 4400 c19. It should have same effect on dr (i am tempted to buy 2x16 dr 4000 c16).

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

I'll try that in a few minutes. So far I got my 4400 17-17-17-36-320-2N profile stable again. Passed the full 3 hour TM5 test overnight without errors at 1.35v SA 1.25v IO 1.50v DRAM. Wr, Nom, Park 80-40-40. 80-48-0 or 120-48-0 is a erroring mess, I can't set park to 0 at 4400.

Only downside to this clock is that no matter how high I set my tWR I cannot run tRDWR's lower than 15's. I can get away with 29-24 tWRRD and 7-2 on the tWTR but not 28-23 6-1. tREFI is at 32800. Not maxed. tCWL 16, tRTP 8, PPD 0.

I tried to go to 16-17-17 and as high as 1.60v and different skews and secondaries but it errors within 3 minutes without adjusting those 2 settings you just said so I should be able to test it pretty quickly if that early and late stuff works lol.

EDIT @nikolaus85 it works lol. I'm not on a Unify but on an Ace but it works.. normally even at 1.60v 4400C16 would error within the first 3 minutes. Now with the settings like you recommended for C16 I'm 10 minutes in on 1.55v and no errors yet so it definitely does something!


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I'll try that in a few minutes. So far I got my 4400 17-17-17-36-320-2N profile stable again. Passed the full 3 hour TM5 test overnight without errors at 1.35v SA 1.25v IO 1.50v DRAM. Wr, Nom, Park 80-40-40. 80-48-0 or 120-48-0 is a erroring mess, I can't set park to 0 at 4400.
> 
> Only downside to this clock is that no matter how high I set my tWR I cannot run tRDWR's lower than 15's. I can get away with 29-24 tWRRD and 7-2 on the tWTR but not 28-23 6-1. tREFI is at 32800. Not maxed. tCWL 16, tRTP 8, PPD 0.
> 
> I tried to go to 16-17-17 and as high as 1.60v and different skews and secondaries but it errors within 3 minutes without adjusting those 2 settings you just said so I should be able to test it pretty quickly if that early and late stuff works lol.
> 
> EDIT @nikolaus85 it works lol. I'm not on a Unify but on an Ace but it works.. normally even at 1.60v 4400C16 would error within the first 3 minutes. Now with the settings like you recommended for C16 I'm 10 minutes in on 1.55v and no errors yet so it definitely does something!


very nice. Let me know if you pass it.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> very nice. Let me know if you pass it.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Not yet, but in stead of 3 minutes it took 28 minutes to error and at less voltage so I'll try again with a bit more volts as soon as I'm back home. I'm at a friends place soldering some new switches in an old Logitech G900 hehe.


----------



## ViTosS

nikolaus85 said:


> for all the unify users: try to set the late command training and early command training to off and on for cl16 and viceversa for cl17. Since i did that i am rocksolid with tm5 extreme preset 4400 cl 17 17 17 36 trefi max (34.7 latency).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


But leave the final late command training and early as ON or OFF? Or it doesn't matter? When I tested 4400CL17 I had that same latency haha, 34.7ns, now I have 36.5ns with 4200CL16, DRAM 1.480v and IO/SA 1.20/1.25v, I didn't tune my WR, NOM and PARK, do you guys think if I find the best values I can lower my voltage like some people said?


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> When I tested 4400CL17 I had that same latency haha, 34.7ns, now I have 36.5ns with 4200CL16, DRAM 1.480v and IO/SA 1.20/1.25v, I didn't tune my WR, NOM and PARK, do you guys think if I find the best values I can lower my voltage like some people said?


are you on dual rank?
cause single rank should be no issue you get back your 9900k ram clocks.


----------



## Imprezzion

If someone puts a 11th gen on Z490, will the board hold back the RAM clocks or not? Mate of mine wants to go from 10700 non-K to 11900K and already has a Z490 Unify but he also wants to buy the "new" 4800C17 kit from g.skill and I really doubt it'll run that high on Z490 especially a 4 DIMM board.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Imprezzion said:


> If someone puts a 11th gen on Z490, will the board hold back the RAM clocks or not? Mate of mine wants to go from 10700 non-K to 11900K and already has a Z490 Unify but he also wants to buy the "new" 4800C17 kit from g.skill and I really doubt it'll run that high on Z490 especially a 4 DIMM board.


My Z490 Unify held my 11700k CPU back by 100mhz compared to the Z590 Apex I had at the time. I didn’t really test memory OC.


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> are you on dual rank?
> cause single rank should be no issue you get back your 9900k ram clocks.


No, single rank, yea I have the exact same OC I had on my 9900ks with Apex, with the same DRAM voltage and IO/SA almost the same too, problem is that this Unify is weird if you don't disable Memory Fast Boot you can lose stability randomly with no reason at all, even if you manually set RTL/IOLs and all the timings you can still lose it, I thought first time it was RTL/IOL but then I lost the stability randomly again with these on AUTO and very lose like 14/14 IOL, I don't know but I'm kinda afraid to tweak RAM again with this problem happening, I may can get 4400CL16 easily but...


----------



## 丶麦香

ViTosS said:


> No, single rank, yea I have the exact same OC I had on my 9900ks with Apex, with the same DRAM voltage and IO/SA almost the same too, problem is that this Unify is weird if you don't disable Memory Fast Boot you can lose stability randomly with no reason at all, even if you manually set RTL/IOLs and all the timings you can still lose it, I thought first time it was RTL/IOL but then I lost the stability randomly again with these on AUTO and very lose like 14/14 IOL, I don't know but I'm kinda afraid to tweak RAM again with this problem happening, I may can get 4400CL16 easily but...


OC over 4000Mhz, I highly recommond you set MRC fast boot disable and set MCH enabled (for MSI MB just set slow trainning).
RTL/IOLs timing tighten, you can just set RTL/IOLs auto, but you must set Round trip latency tranning enabled. MB will train RTL/IOLs perfect.


----------



## ViTosS

丶麦香 said:


> OC over 4000Mhz, I highly recommond you set MRC fast boot disable and set MCH enabled (for MSI MB just set slow trainning).
> RTL/IOLs timing tighten, you can just set RTL/IOLs auto, but you must set Round trip latency tranning enabled. MB will train RTL/IOLs perfect.
> View attachment 2521992
> View attachment 2521993


But that will help with randomly losing stability? Because at the end it didn't seem to be an RTL/IOL problem, since I got the problem with AUTO, with manually set, just a couple reboots even mantaining the same RTL/IOL from before I could lose the stability.


----------



## 丶麦香

ViTosS said:


> But that will help with randomly losing stability? Because at the end it didn't seem to be an RTL/IOL problem, since I got the problem with AUTO, with manually set, just a couple reboots even mantaining the same RTL/IOL from before I could lose the stability.


Nope, stability is guarantee


ViTosS said:


> But that will help with randomly losing stability? Because at the end it didn't seem to be an RTL/IOL problem, since I got the problem with AUTO, with manually set, just a couple reboots even mantaining the same RTL/IOL from before I could lose the stability.


It must be Asus MB,right? Get used to it. I have the very similiar experience with intel i7-8700K and Asus Z370E MB OC @ 4133C16 8GB*4. Only you can do is higher voltage/timing, or lower freqency.


----------



## ViTosS

丶麦香 said:


> Nope, stability is guarantee
> 
> It must be Asus MB,right? Get used to it. I have the very similiar experience with intel i7-8700K and Asus Z370E MB OC @ 4133C16 8GB*4. Only you can do is higher voltage/timing, or lower freqency.


Nah that is not the problem, it's MSI mobo, I was losing stability randomly like people said in the Unify thread (it's an MSI MEG Unify Z490), even very easy presets like 4000CL16 all the rest on AUTO I was losing stability, I was able to go back to 4200CL16 and get the stability again, I don't pretend to change anything now because I can face the same problem again that I have no idea how I fixed, maybe I got lucky in a boot that I was stable and then I went and set Memory Fast Boot to No Training and I've been using like that since that day, like I said it doesn't matter the RTL/IOL if is set to AUTO or manually set, it doesn't matter anything, you can lose your stability from being stable and then reboot and just losing again without changing anything.


----------



## Imprezzion

Mine (Ace, but basically same BIOS) does keep stability reasonably well with RAM with everything manually entered in fixed mode and using Memory Fast Boot on Enabled but only if I set it all in fixed mode.

It does do something else weird.. my vCore is different when hot booting (reboot) compared to cold boot... A hot boot is like 0.030 lower so in stead of 1.310 it's 1.280... Shut it down and cold boot it, 1.310 again.. So yeah, it has it's issues lel.

I have tried everything I can imagine to make 4400C16 happen but it just won't. Best I've gotten is 38 minutes TM5 with no errors but then it started spitting loads of them again. Like 8 in 1 minute. It wasn't temps, I had the A/C blowing into my case just to rule out temps and they didn't get over 41c so..


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> Mine (Ace, but basically same BIOS) does keep stability reasonably well with RAM with everything manually entered in fixed mode and using Memory Fast Boot on Enabled but only if I set it all in fixed mode.
> 
> It does do something else weird.. my vCore is different when hot booting (reboot) compared to cold boot... A hot boot is like 0.030 lower so in stead of 1.310 it's 1.280... Shut it down and cold boot it, 1.310 again.. So yeah, it has it's issues lel.
> 
> I have tried everything I can imagine to make 4400C16 happen but it just won't. Best I've gotten is 38 minutes TM5 with no errors but then it started spitting loads of them again. Like 8 in 1 minute. It wasn't temps, I had the A/C blowing into my case just to rule out temps and they didn't get over 41c so..


You mean the timings that has a option of fixed mode? If you mean the RTL/IOL in fixed mode, if I don't use the Dynamic and manually set the values they won't stay, if I use fixed mode and manually set they change after every reboot to auto, so I need to use Dynamic with them manually set and then I can reboot they stay always the same.


----------



## acoustic

That doesn't sound right. They shouldn't move if they're set to Fixed Mode with training disabled, unless you have unstable values set.


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> You mean the timings that has a option of fixed mode? If you mean the RTL/IOL in fixed mode, if I don't use the Dynamic and manually set the values they won't stay, if I use fixed mode and manually set they change after every reboot to auto, so I need to use Dynamic with them manually set and then I can reboot they stay always the same.


When running fixed mode you'll have to use RTL/IOL compensation to lower each value. It will just ignore manually set values if you don't use tweak compensation values at the same time. Changing RTL Init values will also aide in the process if you can't quite hit the right values. Dynamic is similar to auto but you can also use compensation.


----------



## cstkl1

@ViTosS
@Imprezzion

cml rtl/iol is influenced by SA .

i would try a diff combis on twcl with SA


----------



## Astral85

Is anyone familiar with "thread error handler" in TM5? I don't know why I'm getting this.


----------



## Imprezzion

Astral85 said:


> Is anyone familiar with "thread error handler" in TM5? I don't know why I'm getting this.


As far as my reddit knowledge goes it means it errored but the test kept running for some reason. Usually the counter keeps going but the CPU load is 0 at that point. It does that for me with super high frequencies like 4600 or above. It almost makes me think it's something to do with the IMC.


----------



## freddy85

Having a hard time getting command rate 1 to work with my 11700k, Asus z590f and Gskill 3200cl14 kit. 
Im able to get 3600mhz cl14 gear 1 stable at 1,475v. But no mather what i do i cant get command rate 1 to work, even at stock 3200mhz speed and higher memory voltages.
Is command rate 1 in general hard to get stable on 11gen or is it some tweaking on other voltages i should try beside memore voltage?


----------



## sixty9sublime

freddy85 said:


> Having a hard time getting command rate 1 to work with my 11700k, Asus z590f and Gskill 3200cl14 kit.
> Im able to get 3600mhz cl14 gear 1 stable at 1,475v. But no mather what i do i cant get command rate 1 to work, even at stock 3200mhz speed and higher memory voltages.
> Is command rate 1 in general hard to get stable on 11gen or is it some tweaking on other voltages i should try beside memore voltage?


Buildzoid just put out a video on that very subject. 2N in gear 1 is just fine.


----------



## cstkl1

sixty9sublime said:


> Buildzoid just put out a video on that very subject. 2N in gear 1 is just fine.


buildzoid and his assumptions. 
so wild he theorized a nonsensical value of bus cycle with cmd stretching with some wild number of commands per sec


----------



## ViTosS

acoustic said:


> That doesn't sound right. They shouldn't move if they're set to Fixed Mode with training disabled, unless you have unstable values set.





sixty9sublime said:


> When running fixed mode you'll have to use RTL/IOL compensation to lower each value. It will just ignore manually set values if you don't use tweak compensation values at the same time. Changing RTL Init values will also aide in the process if you can't quite hit the right values. Dynamic is similar to auto but you can also use compensation.


Hmm that makes sense, I don't know how to set them properly using offset/compensation with those init values, I only know how atm to set RTL/IOL is always to decrease 1 for 1, like RTL 62 and IOL 7 I should do RTL 61 and IOL 6 etc. I think someone explained to me how to set via compensation, let me roll back some pages lol.


----------



## bscool

freddy85 said:


> Having a hard time getting command rate 1 to work with my 11700k, Asus z590f and Gskill 3200cl14 kit.
> Im able to get 3600mhz cl14 gear 1 stable at 1,475v. But no mather what i do i cant get command rate 1 to work, even at stock 3200mhz speed and higher memory voltages.
> Is command rate 1 in general hard to get stable on 11gen or is it some tweaking on other voltages i should try beside memore voltage?


I found it much harder to run 1t even on z590 Apex. I just run 2t in gear 1.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I found it much harder to run 1t even on z590 Apex. I just run 2t in gear 1.


apex no issue on running 1T for gear 1 for benching. thats what all the bios updates since 0801 about. 
but it sacrificed stability on 2T


----------



## Astral85

Imprezzion said:


> As far as my reddit knowledge goes it means it errored but the test kept running for some reason. Usually the counter keeps going but the CPU load is 0 at that point. It does that for me with super high frequencies like 4600 or above. It almost makes me think it's something to do with the IMC.


I can't figure this out. I set BIOS defaults and the RAM to XMP 1 and still have thread error handler.


----------



## msmeenge

Hello everyone,

Im having a bit of "issues" with my 2 dimms of G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3600CL16 @1.35v.
At stock these ram sticks can get up to 41-43C idle/55-57C while gaming. When i look at this forum i notice way lower temperatures on everyones RAM.
Are these temps problematic? I currently have no crashes or BSODS with my RAM at 4000MHz 16-16-16-34-340-2T 1.45v and they max out a little under 60C while gaming.
I run quite a ventilated case (360aio front, 2 top exhaust and 1 rear exhaust).

I must say when i placed my RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X temps in my case got quite a bit warmer overall. Even though this things undervolted and maxes out during gaming around 66C.

The rest of my specs:

10900K @ 5ghz 1.28v
Corsair H150i XT 360mm AIO
Z490 AORUS Master
16GB DDR4 3600CL16 @ 4000CL16 1.45v
RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X @ 1920mhz 0.875mv
Corsair RM750x
Obsidian 500D SE


----------



## Imprezzion

msmeenge said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Im having a bit of "issues" with my 2 dimms of G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3600CL16 @1.35v.
> At stock these ram sticks can get up to 41-43C idle/55-57C while gaming. When i look at this forum i notice way lower temperatures on everyones RAM.
> Are these temps problematic? I currently have no crashes or BSODS with my RAM at 4000MHz 16-16-16-34-340-2T 1.45v and they max out a little under 60C while gaming.
> I run quite a ventilated case (360aio front, 2 top exhaust and 1 rear exhaust).
> 
> I must say when i placed my RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X temps in my case got quite a bit warmer overall. Even though this things undervolted and maxes out during gaming around 66C.
> 
> The rest of my specs:
> 
> 10900K @ 5ghz 1.28v
> Corsair H150i XT 360mm AIO
> Z490 AORUS Master
> 16GB DDR4 3600CL16 @ 4000CL16 1.45v
> RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X @ 1920mhz 0.875mv
> Corsair RM750x
> Obsidian 500D SE


It's not problematic but it can cause instability or require more voltage to be stable. For example, at 40c they might do the same clocks and timings at 1.40v in stead of 1.45v. 4000C16 is quite conservative on 3600C16 B-Die so you shouldn't have any issues but if you wanna push higher frequency or lower timings you'll need lower temps.


----------



## cstkl1

msmeenge said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Im having a bit of "issues" with my 2 dimms of G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3600CL16 @1.35v.
> At stock these ram sticks can get up to 41-43C idle/55-57C while gaming. When i look at this forum i notice way lower temperatures on everyones RAM.
> Are these temps problematic? I currently have no crashes or BSODS with my RAM at 4000MHz 16-16-16-34-340-2T 1.45v and they max out a little under 60C while gaming.
> I run quite a ventilated case (360aio front, 2 top exhaust and 1 rear exhaust).
> 
> I must say when i placed my RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X temps in my case got quite a bit warmer overall. Even though this things undervolted and maxes out during gaming around 66C.
> 
> The rest of my specs:
> 
> 10900K @ 5ghz 1.28v
> Corsair H150i XT 360mm AIO
> Z490 AORUS Master
> 16GB DDR4 3600CL16 @ 4000CL16 1.45v
> RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X @ 1920mhz 0.875mv
> Corsair RM750x
> Obsidian 500D SE


thats not ventilated. i would go full on positive airflow with rear only exhaust

temps. pretty high for sr bdie at medium vdimm. 

the higher the temp the more accurate your secondary and third has to be. but at such low clocks should be no problem.


----------



## msmeenge

Thanks for the replies @Imprezzion and @cstkl1.
I've just done some testing and when i have 3x front intake i get maximum temps of around 50c on both of them dimms @1.45v and 1.3 SA/VCCIO.
So i guess it's my radiator front blocking all the fresh air. I'll find a solution for this. I guess i'll go with a 280mm top mount.

Time to lower vcore/vccio/sa now


----------



## cstkl1

msmeenge said:


> Thanks for the replies @Imprezzion and @cstkl1.
> I've just done some testing and when i have 3x front intake i get maximum temps of around 50c on both of them dimms @1.45v and 1.3 SA/VCCIO.
> So i guess it's my radiator front blocking all the fresh air. I'll find a solution for this. I guess i'll go with a 280mm top mount.
> 
> Time to lower vcore/vccio/sa now


on second rig helios casing came with 3 140 intake and 1 exhaust
added ryujin 2
10900k 
strix 3090

by just changing ryujin to push into the casing
cpu temps not affected by gpu anymore
and rams 4266c17d-32 1.5v kit now gaming max temp 48c. gpu now maxing 69c. 

no ac etc . ambient arnd 28-30c


----------



## msmeenge

cstkl1 said:


> on second rig helios casing came with 3 140 intake and 1 exhaust
> added ryujin 2
> 10900k
> strix 3090
> 
> by just changing ryujin to push into the casing
> cpu temps not affected by gpu anymore
> and rams 4266c17d-32 1.5v kit now gaming max temp 48c. gpu now maxing 69c.
> 
> no ac etc . ambient arnd 28-30c


What SA/VCCIO voltages do u need for this?


----------



## cstkl1

msmeenge said:


> What SA/VCCIO voltages do u need for this?


10900k @5.1|48 LL6 1.275 vmin 1.17
m13e bios 1003
sa/vcio 1.25/1.25 
4266-16-16-16-32-280-2T 2x16gb


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> thats not ventilated. i would go full on positive airflow with rear only exhaust
> 
> temps. pretty high for sr bdie at medium vdimm.
> 
> the higher the temp the more accurate your secondary and third has to be. but at such low clocks should be no problem.


I second this. The two top exhausts will be pulling the hot air directly out of the 3080Ti and flowing it straight over the RAM.


----------



## ViTosS

I use my fans like this, my RAM at 1.480v toping out max of 48-50c while gaming with 99% GPU usage and 30c ambient.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> I use my fans like this, my RAM at 1.480v toping out max of 48-50c while gaming with 99% GPU usage and 30c ambient.
> 
> View attachment 2522373


better u do all top, bottom, side intake 
top do push intake on aio


----------



## Imprezzion

I just made a bracket to hold a 140mm over my RAM which uses the screws for the top radiator fans. In games the max RAM temps I see at 4400C17 1.50v are 42c. Stress 45c. What I find odd however is when I run lower like 4200C17 1.42v they get just as hot and at 4200C15 with 1.60v they only get 2-3c hotter.. does this indicate that the heat spreaders get over saturated and just can't dissipate more heat then they already are?


----------



## Rbk_3

Does it make any logical sense that a 40000 trefi would get me a couple errors here and there in OCCT but maxed it doesn’t ? I had lowered it from max to 40000 and would get 1 error here and there

10900k, MSI Unify Z490 4x8 vipers at 4000 16-16-16-36 at 1.45V, 1.3SA 1.28IO


----------



## msmeenge

cstkl1 said:


> 10900k @5.1|48 LL6 1.275 vmin 1.17
> m13e bios 1003
> sa/vcio 1.25/1.25
> 4266-16-16-16-32-280-2T 2x16gb


Looks good bro, quite similar to my setup.
I run my 10900K @5.1 LLC Turbo 1.295v bios / 1.31/1.32v windows idle/load
SA/VCCIO 1.25
My G.skill tridentZ RGB RAM is rated 3600CL16 and got this running at 17-18-18-38-380-2T 2x 8GB @1.45v (RAM is crashing at lower timings).

RAM is maxing out at around 50c during gaming now.


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> better u do all top, bottom, side intake
> top do push intake on aio


All intake? So where would the hot air go through? It's not an Dynamic XL so doesn't have the rear fan... I tried with top intake and bottom out and was only better for RAM temps just a little bit, but the GPU got way warmer than before...

Also tried with radiator on top intake blowing the RAM and the bottom outtake but the hot air tends to go above and didn't work great, the hot air from GPU tends to lift and even fans forcing downwards it was worse for the GPU that way...


----------



## SgtRotty

msmeenge said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Im having a bit of "issues" with my 2 dimms of G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3600CL16 @1.35v.
> At stock these ram sticks can get up to 41-43C idle/55-57C while gaming. When i look at this forum i notice way lower temperatures on everyones RAM.
> Are these temps problematic? I currently have no crashes or BSODS with my RAM at 4000MHz 16-16-16-34-340-2T 1.45v and they max out a little under 60C while gaming.
> I run quite a ventilated case (360aio front, 2 top exhaust and 1 rear exhaust).
> 
> I must say when i placed my RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X temps in my case got quite a bit warmer overall. Even though this things undervolted and maxes out during gaming around 66C.
> 
> The rest of my specs:
> 
> 10900K @ 5ghz 1.28v
> Corsair H150i XT 360mm AIO
> Z490 AORUS Master
> 16GB DDR4 3600CL16 @ 4000CL16 1.45v
> RTX 3080TI SUPRIM X @ 1920mhz 0.875mv
> Corsair RM750x
> Obsidian 500D SE


If I'm reading this correctly, turn your 360 aio around for exhaust blowing out the front. Use the 2 top fans as a intake. Leave the rear as a exhaust. Temps might be lower with that radiator blowing the hot air out of the case. Those 2 top fans will blow downward towards the dimms and out the front


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> All intake? So where would the hot air go through? It's not an Dynamic XL so doesn't have the rear fan... I tried with top intake and bottom out and was only better for RAM temps just a little bit, but the GPU got way warmer than before...
> 
> Also tried with radiator on top intake blowing the RAM and the bottom outtake but the hot air tends to go above and didn't work great, the hot air from GPU tends to lift and even fans forcing downwards it was worse for the GPU that way...


oh. i still do full on all three areas intake and let passive out via back. the top definitely intake. u can test this dude. worth ure time.


----------



## 丶麦香

Something you should know that RAM highest temperature without test error is more than you can imagine. It can work at 65℃ with error-free！


----------



## Imprezzion

丶麦香 said:


> Something you should know that RAM highest temperature without test error is more than you can imagine. It can work at 65℃ with error-free！
> View attachment 2522436


And again, tWR 12 with tRDWR's at 11? Teach me how! .

Even at tWR 14 I cannot for the life of me get any tRDWR under 15 to be even remotely stable at any frequency. 14's work at tWR 18 but perform worse. And 12 or even 11 is not even bootable at any frequency / primary timings as loose as 4200 17-19-19.


----------



## 丶麦香

Imprezzion said:


> And again, tWR 12 with tRDWR's at 11? Teach me how! .
> 
> Even at tWR 14 I cannot for the life of me get any tRDWR under 15 to be even remotely stable at any frequency. 14's work at tWR 18 but perform worse. And 12 or even 11 is not even bootable at any frequency / primary timings as loose as 4200 17-19-19.


So, tWR and tRDWR have some connection?


----------



## ViTosS

丶麦香 said:


> Something you should know that RAM highest temperature without test error is more than you can imagine. It can work at 65℃ with error-free！
> View attachment 2522436


It depends, at [email protected] mine starts to error at 48c, increasing voltage by 0.020 can make it start to error at 50-51, but my [email protected] profile it can reach 55c without problem at 1.480v (I couldn't test more than 55c because it was already with all case fans at 20%...

I mean, if I'm not erroring at 55c in a stress test like HCI I can assume that there won't be a problem gaming at 53-54 right?


----------



## 丶麦香

ViTosS said:


> It depends, at [email protected] mine starts to error at 48c, increasing voltage by 0.020 can make it start to error at 50-51, but my [email protected] profile it can reach 55c without problem at 1.480v (I couldn't test more than 55c because it was already with all case fans at 20%...
> 
> I mean, if I'm not erroring at 55c in a stress test like HCI I can assume that there won't be a problem gaming at 53-54 right?


yes


----------



## BradleyW

Hey!

Wondering if someone could assist me please?

Trident Z DDR4-4000MHz CL18-19-19-39. On my system, XMP is unstable, regardless of voltage settings. So when I put the frequency and primary timings in manually, it is stable. However, I run at 3800MHz due to IMC limitations on my 9900K (stability).

Long story short, when I set the RAM to 3800MHz, the system sets tREFI to 14828.
However, tREFI = (Frequency / 2) x 7.8. This would give me a tREFI of 14820.
Should I leave it at the default value or reduce it by 8?

Last but not least, is my, or would my tREFI be compliant with my default value of tREFIx9 = 127?. I'm not sure how this works. Something to do with how many times it can do a refresh cycle.

Thank you.
9900K
Z390 ULTRA (GIGABYTE)
RAM = As above.


----------



## mouacyk

BradleyW said:


> Hey!
> 
> Wondering if someone could assist me please?
> 
> Trident Z DDR4-4000MHz CL18-19-19-39. On my system, XMP is unstable, regardless of voltage settings. So when I put the frequency and primary timings in manually, it is stable. However, I run at 3800MHz due to IMC limitations on my 9900K (stability).
> 
> Long story short, when I set the RAM to 3800MHz, the system sets tREFI to 14828.
> However, tREFI = (Frequency / 2) x 7.8. This would give me a tREFI of 14820.
> Should I leave it at the default value or reduce it by 8?
> 
> Last but not least, is my, or would my tREFI be compliant with my default value of tREFIx9 = 127?. I'm not sure how this works. Something to do with how many times it can do a refresh cycle.
> 
> Thank you.
> 9900K
> Z390 ULTRA (GIGABYTE)
> RAM = As above.


You want to maximize tREFI, regardless of any formula you may find in the wild. Set it to max and halve it until it boots. Then -/+ halve it until it is stable. A lot of boards seem to be stable with max tREFI nowadays -- they must be providing constant power to the modules or something to prevent signal decay.


----------



## BradleyW

mouacyk said:


> You want to maximize tREFI, regardless of any formula you may find in the wild. Set it to max and halve it until it boots. Then -/+ halve it until it is stable. A lot of boards seem to be stable with max tREFI nowadays -- they must be providing constant power to the modules or something to prevent signal decay.


Roger that. I did notice that "3D applications run smoother when timings are left to default". For instance, changing primary timings from 18 - 19 - 19 - 39 to 17 - 18 - 18 - 37, or doubling tREFI, or even reducing tRFC from 700 to 500. It is not a stability issue as it will pass 12 hours of GSAT without error or correction.


----------



## swddeluxx

丶麦香 said:


> Something you should know that RAM highest temperature without test error is more than you can imagine. It can work at 65℃ with error-free！
> View attachment 2522436


Your IO and SA Voltage is a little low for 4x8Gb 4300. Have you set custom Skews and Slopes?


----------



## 丶麦香

swddeluxx said:


> Your IO and SA Voltage is a little low for 4x8Gb 4300. Have you set custom Skews and Slopes?


Nope, I tihink it's waste time to tune skews and slopes because the ROI is almost a million to one for Z490, so I just auto.


----------



## BradleyW

Could I have some equation compliant suggestions for my timings please? 
Trident Z DDR4-4000MHz CL18-19-19-39.
Thank you.


----------



## 丶麦香

BradleyW said:


> Could I have some equation compliant suggestions for my timings please?
> Trident Z DDR4-4000MHz CL18-19-19-39.
> Thank you.


Timing setting for reference, more detail information please check link 原来内存超频这么简单——intel平台DDR4内存时序调教指南


----------



## pipes

could a z490 from a z590 have limitations on the oc of the RAM?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Yamcha2209

Hello,

I'm looking at having a tinker at the IO offsets and RFR offsets, is the end goal to work the values down for the IO offsets and RFR delays ?


----------



## Blazkrz

New OC’r here, so I got a bdie overclocking issue, I bought Gskill dual rank 16x2 3866 Cl19-19-19-39 1.35 and it won’t go any higher… tried every sa/io voltage, even on auto TM5 fails gives me a error within 10min.. it’s a B1 config but still I thought I could push it higher 1.45 but hits 50C in about 15min in OCCT mem test, and 10min in TM5 with a lot of errors, guess I got a bad bin? An hour in game (Warzone) and it reaches 51C but doesn’t crash or anything.. Here’s the part number looks like it was a 128gb kit parted out into 16x2 configurations F4-3866C19Q2-128GTZKK, boots only to 4300mhz nothing past that on stock or upped voltage with looser timings or stock timings any thoughts?

I9 10850k delided copper IHS thermal grizzly liquid metal OC to 5.0 4.7 ring stable 1.305 vcore
Z490 unify itx 
360 aio


----------



## Gen.

Easy overclocking


----------



## Imprezzion

Blazkrz said:


> New OC’r here, so I got a bdie overclocking issue, I bought Gskill dual rank 16x2 3866 Cl19-19-19-39 1.35 and it won’t go any higher… tried every sa/io voltage, even on auto TM5 fails gives me a error within 10min.. it’s a B1 config but still I thought I could push it higher 1.45 but hits 50C in about 15min in OCCT mem test, and 10min in TM5 with a lot of errors, guess I got a bad bin? An hour in game (Warzone) and it reaches 51C but doesn’t crash or anything.. Here’s the part number looks like it was a 128gb kit parted out into 16x2 configurations F4-3866C19Q2-128GTZKK, boots only to 4300mhz nothing past that on stock or upped voltage with looser timings or stock timings any thoughts?
> 
> I9 10850k delided copper IHS thermal grizzly liquid metal OC to 5.0 4.7 ring stable 1.305 vcore
> Z490 unify itx
> 360 aio


Try setting the ODT's manually. Try 80-40-40 or something first.


----------



## Betroz

Gen. said:


> Easy overclocking


Nice 
What is your 24/7 setup with those sticks?


----------



## Blazkrz

Gen. said:


> Easy overclocking


What sticks you got?


----------



## ViTosS

Is the SOTTR benchmark known for being inconsistency or something? I ask that because I was doing 251 FPS and then I remembered I was using tCWL at 15 instead of 16, I changed and then boom back again to 251 FPS, but then I rebooted PC and ran again and got 242fps, to make sure I ran again without rebooting (and without closing the game) and then got 246fps, something is weird with that benchmark or my system maybe?

Also to get back to tCWL 15 was not easy, had to reboot like 10 times to get a boot with my tuned RTL/IOLs and when I got the boot I made sure to reboot and disable memory training, ran TM5 and HCI and stable, so I can reboot and even cold boot without problem now, it's weird seems like I had to hit a luck point in random tries until I got the boot, like the boot was hard to achieve but then when I disabled memory training I can have this anytime without problem...


----------



## Gen.

Betroz said:


> Nice
> What is your 24/7 setup with those sticks?


This is true. It is stable for every day so far. Soon I will try to configure 4266/4400 CR1. I can still 4533 16-17 1.54 try


Blazkrz said:


> What sticks you got?


Everything is in the screenshot)) F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB Sep2020. 4400 16-16 1.48-1.5, no more.


----------



## Imprezzion

How good is the bin on the G.Skill Ripjaws V F4-4000C16D-32GVK? Is the the Ripjaws V PCB 10 layer or 8 and does it even matter? This set is very cheap here in the Netherlands relative to other b-die bins and both me and a buddy kinda want this set lol. 

There is a Trident-Z version as well (GTZN) but that's like €40 more for just RGB which we both don't use on the RAM.


----------



## Betroz

Gen. said:


> Soon I will try to configure 4266/4400 CR1. I can still 4533 16-17 1.54 try


I doubt that the IMC in your CPU will handle 4400C16 CR1 with 2x16GB sticks.... If it does, it is a golden sample.


----------



## Gen.

Betroz said:


> I doubt that the IMC in your CPU will handle 4400C16 CR1 with 2x16GB sticks.... If it does, it is a golden sample.


Any doubts?


----------



## cstkl1

Gen. said:


> Any doubts?


horrific timings though.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> snipp


Nice results! But you clearly got a better CPU and memory sticks than I do. This is my best stable settings :


----------



## Salve1412

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2523277


How much VDimm for straight 16s?


----------



## alexbrad

fray_bentos said:


> icks with the same RAM/IO/SA voltages run at 4200 16-16-16 on my newer 10900KF: IMC limited. You could try and increase SA and IO, but personally I'm not a fan of that (I max 1.25 V on both





The Pook said:


> pulling my hair out, I've saved 2 profiles at 4266 that were tested stable for 4+ hours in GSAT/TM5 but the next day or after a reboot with zero changes it'll throw errors after <5 minutes.


*exactly* the very same thing happens to me )
it's kind of frustrating passing GSAT overnight, then second day errors within 200 seconds =))

did you solve it in the end?


----------



## cstkl1

Salve1412 said:


> How much VDimm for straight 16s?


1.5v


----------



## Astral85

Is anyone running Windows 11? Seems like there is no way around the enforced Core Isolation/Memory Integrity in trying to run AsRock Configurator. Maybe AsRock will need to update it.


----------



## shocker94

Astral85 said:


> Is anyone running Windows 11? Seems like there is no way around the enforced Core Isolation/Memory Integrity in trying to run AsRock Configurator. Maybe AsRock will need to update it.
> 
> View attachment 2523300


Try to disable virtualization.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

Keep tuning my ram, still have some timings to set, but performances improved a lot settings trrds, trrdl, tfaw, twr and trtp. Voltages are 1.38 sa, 1.36 io and 1.55 vdram. Ram are Patriot 4400 c19.


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> View attachment 2523327
> View attachment 2523329
> 
> 
> 
> Keep tuning my ram, still have some timings to set, but performances improved a lot settings trrds, trrdl, tfaw, twr and trtp. Voltages are 1.38 sa, 1.36 io and 1.55 vdram. Ram are Patriot 4400 c19.


You are basically running the exact same frequency and timings as me on a 3600C16 Trident-Z Neo kit. Even the secondary and RTL/IO are the same 
AIDA scores are the same as well with 1 exception, your latency is quite a bit lower (2ns) then mine but yeah my Windows is bloated AF on a full hot boot with Rainmeter, Wallpaper Engine and a bunch of monitoring and game launchers.


----------



## The Pook

alexbrad said:


> *exactly* the very same thing happens to me )
> it's kind of frustrating passing GSAT overnight, then second day errors within 200 seconds =))
> 
> did you solve it in the end?


yep, two posts after that one. my 10850K was just really crappy and needed >1.3v for 5.0. 



The Pook said:


> I think I figured it out, apparently I just had a slightly too aggressive vCore offset.
> 
> not really sure why it passed >4 hour tests before but I dialed it back a few notches and it seems ok now


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> You are basically running the exact same frequency and timings as me on a 3600C16 Trident-Z Neo kit. Even the secondary and RTL/IO are the same
> AIDA scores are the same as well with 1 exception, your latency is quite a bit lower (2ns) then mine but yeah my Windows is bloated AF on a full hot boot with Rainmeter, Wallpaper Engine and a bunch of monitoring and game launchers.


well i close everything before i do aida benchmark, plus i don't like having many programs in background. I still have tu tune many timings but needs lots of time (i always use tm5 anta777 extreme to vaildate them). I would like to switch to 2x16 dr 4000c16 but they are not cheap (about 300 €).

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> well i close everything before i do aida benchmark, plus i don't like having many programs in background. I still have tu tune many timings but needs lots of time (i always use tm5 anta777 extreme to vaildate them). I would like to switch to 2x16 dr 4000c16 but they are not cheap (about 300 €).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I did that once and got 35.2 so close enough I guess. Yeah one of my mates was looking at 4000C16 kit as well as he has 4x8 3200C14 sticks now at 4000C14 and wants 2x16 obviously. The Ripjaws version here is about €260 and the Trident-Z one €319 so yeah, is it worth it for those few percentage points of improvement? Not really..


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I did that once and got 35.2 so close enough I guess. Yeah one of my mates was looking at 4000C16 kit as well as he has 4x8 3200C14 sticks now at 4000C14 and wants 2x16 obviously. The Ripjaws version here is about €260 and the Trident-Z one €319 so yeah, is it worth it for those few percentage points of improvement? Not really..


well they say dr give big boost of performance, so i don't know. I could add another viper kit and go for 4x8 dr, but could be too hard to push 4400 c17 on 4 dimms.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## ViTosS

nikolaus85 said:


> View attachment 2523327
> View attachment 2523329
> 
> 
> 
> Keep tuning my ram, still have some timings to set, but performances improved a lot settings trrds, trrdl, tfaw, twr and trtp. Voltages are 1.38 sa, 1.36 io and 1.55 vdram. Ram are Patriot 4400 c19.





Imprezzion said:


> You are basically running the exact same frequency and timings as me on a 3600C16 Trident-Z Neo kit. Even the secondary and RTL/IO are the same
> AIDA scores are the same as well with 1 exception, your latency is quite a bit lower (2ns) then mine but yeah my Windows is bloated AF on a full hot boot with Rainmeter, Wallpaper Engine and a bunch of monitoring and game launchers.


Honestly I have no idea how you guys can get that low latency, I have everything closed here, Windows 10 fine tuned/optimized for less things in background, below are my latency for 4200CL16 and 4400CL17


----------



## nikolaus85

ViTosS said:


> Honestly I have no idea how you guys can get that low latency, I have everything closed here, Windows 10 fine tuned/optimized for less things in background, below are my latency for 4200CL16 and 4400CL17
> 
> View attachment 2523410
> 
> 
> View attachment 2523409


maybe i9 has more latency than i7 because of 2 more cores? Did u set the txp 4? Anyway i still have an old bios that i didn't update because it performs really well (just missing the ppd voice that must be disable anyway at default since i lowered latency with txp 4).

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

I have PPD disabled and tXP 4 if that even does anything at PPD 0. The lowest I've ever gotten is 34.2ns at 4266 15-16-16-33-280-2T with super tight secondaries and tertiaries and with cache yeeted to 5Ghz with super high CPU voltage (1.496v) but that needs like 1.64v to be stable and the DIMM's just get too hot even with a fan. Like 55-56c, and they aren't very happy in gaming at that point lol. I tested them with the portable A/C blowing straight into the case at max power to keep them around 46c lol. Besides, I don't wanna run 1.64v 24/7 hehe.

Cache clocks help quite a bit as well. I can only run 4600 cache at my normal CPU voltage so that costs me.

Speaking of 4 DIMM's, I went to my mates place and did some tuning on his 4x8 Trident-Z 3200C14's and managed to squeeze out a TM5 Anta777 Extreme stable 4200 17-17-17-36-320-2T with decent subtimings so 4200 is definitely doable on 4x8. Didn't even need all that much IO/SA for it either. 1.25v IO 1.35v SA 1.50v DRAM. RTL/IO is a disaster to properly train with 4 DIMM's tho. Can't get much better then 68/68/68/68/10/10/10/9. Any tighter and the IO-L goes all over the place and won't train properly anymore. He's using a 10900KF with per-core OC at 53x2 52x3 51x5 50x10 stock voltage 4700 cache and a MSI Unify Z490 with A70 BIOS.


----------



## bscool

nikolaus85 said:


> maybe i9 has more latency than i7 because of 2 more cores? Did u set the txp 4? Anyway i still have an old bios that i didn't update because it performs really well (just missing the ppd voice that must be disable anyway at default since i lowered latency with txp 4).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


10 core CML has around 1.5ns higher latency than 6 and 8 core CML in Aida64.


----------



## ViTosS

nikolaus85 said:


> maybe i9 has more latency than i7 because of 2 more cores? Did u set the txp 4? Anyway i still have an old bios that i didn't update because it performs really well (just missing the ppd voice that must be disable anyway at default since i lowered latency with txp 4).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk





Imprezzion said:


> I have PPD disabled and tXP 4 if that even does anything at PPD 0. The lowest I've ever gotten is 34.2ns at 4266 15-16-16-33-280-2T with super tight secondaries and tertiaries and with cache yeeted to 5Ghz with super high CPU voltage (1.496v) but that needs like 1.64v to be stable and the DIMM's just get too hot even with a fan. Like 55-56c, and they aren't very happy in gaming at that point lol. I tested them with the portable A/C blowing straight into the case at max power to keep them around 46c lol. Besides, I don't wanna run 1.64v 24/7 hehe.
> 
> Cache clocks help quite a bit as well. I can only run 4600 cache at my normal CPU voltage so that costs me.
> 
> Speaking of 4 DIMM's, I went to my mates place and did some tuning on his 4x8 Trident-Z 3200C14's and managed to squeeze out a TM5 Anta777 Extreme stable 4200 17-17-17-36-320-2T with decent subtimings so 4200 is definitely doable on 4x8. Didn't even need all that much IO/SA for it either. 1.25v IO 1.35v SA 1.50v DRAM. RTL/IO is a disaster to properly train with 4 DIMM's tho. Can't get much better then 68/68/68/68/10/10/10/9. Any tighter and the IO-L goes all over the place and won't train properly anymore. He's using a 10900KF with per-core OC at 53x2 52x3 51x5 50x10 stock voltage 4700 cache and a MSI Unify Z490 with A70 BIOS.


Yeah I have PPD 0 and tXP 4, but that's weird because if I remember correctly when I first tuned 4400CL17 I was getting 34.7ns instead of 36.3ns, but that doesn't make sense too because 4200CL16 is pretty close in latency compared to 4400CL17, maybe I was wrong idk.

@Imprezzion can you run Aida64 and post screenshots and also tell the BIOS you are, run if possible with the best latency you can get (all background closed) and 4400CL17.

Thanks.


----------



## ViTosS

bscool said:


> 10 core CML has around 1.5ns higher latency than 6 and 8 core CML in Aida64.


That would explain too...


----------



## alexbrad

The Pook said:


> yep, two posts after that one. my 10850K was just really crappy and needed >1.3v for 5.0.


I had a classic 2x16 4000C19 kit, could run that 16-16-16-36 @ 1.45V pretty rock stable, paired with 10900K @ 5.0GHz 1.27VCore, GSAT passed flying colors, any time
with this 2x16 [email protected] kit is pretty random, I just gave up and just want to run this crap on XMP only - bumped the VRAM to 1.45V - fail, also raising VCORE to 1.35V still fails
io/sa auto voltages are 1.4/1.5V, tried 1.20-1.45V range combinations and still nothing
TM5 with extreme anta profile is passing though, but I'm just keen on GSAT thing )


----------



## Imprezzion

VENGEANCE® RGB RT 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 DRAM 4600MHz C18 Memory Kit – Black


CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB RT DDR4 memory punches up your PC’s aesthetics while delivering outstanding performance optimized for AMD systems.




www.corsair.com





Is there a chance of this kit being b-die? 18-22-22-42 on 1.5 at 4600 kinda makes me think it is as with hynix i would expect 18-26-26 or something..


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> could a z490 from a z590 have limitations on the oc of the RAM?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Gen.

cstkl1 said:


> horrific timings though.


Where are they bad? I'm waiting for at least one who will make CR1 work on 1200 and DR B-Die 2 * 16. RDWR = 16 bad or tREFI / tRFC = auto? So this is the initial setup. Before you say anything, you need to think repeatedly. Remember this


----------



## 丶麦香

10900K SP106 53/50 @socket 1.35V
4300C16 8GB*4 @ Dimm 1.56V IO/SA=1.24V
MSI Z490 ACE
TM5 anta777 Heavy5opt 3 cycles passed


----------



## cstkl1

Gen. said:


> Where are they bad? I'm waiting for at least one who will make CR1 work on 1200 and DR B-Die 2 * 16. RDWR = 16 bad or tREFI / tRFC = auto? So this is the initial setup. Before you say anything, you need to think repeatedly. Remember this


what u trying to say. ppl have to agree just because you did 1N on dr on apex? even-though with crappy timings?

and afaik theres a chinese guy with good timimgs dud 1T hci stabld 4700 1T

shouldnt like think before you ask others.


----------



## nikolaus85




----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Gen.
Nice result, i dont know if it possible to boot higher as 2x16gb 4266 CR1 in my case, but if... not easy.
For 24/7 its not faster as my CR2, but that its possible is impressive.
Don't let any members annoy you, It wouldn't be worth the time


----------



## Nizzen

ViTosS said:


> Is the SOTTR benchmark known for being inconsistency or something? I ask that because I was doing 251 FPS and then I remembered I was using tCWL at 15 instead of 16, I changed and then boom back again to 251 FPS, but then I rebooted PC and ran again and got 242fps, to make sure I ran again without rebooting (and without closing the game) and then got 246fps, something is weird with that benchmark or my system maybe?
> 
> Also to get back to tCWL 15 was not easy, had to reboot like 10 times to get a boot with my tuned RTL/IOLs and when I got the boot I made sure to reboot and disable memory training, ran TM5 and HCI and stable, so I can reboot and even cold boot without problem now, it's weird seems like I had to hit a luck point in random tries until I got the boot, like the boot was hard to achieve but then when I disabled memory training I can have this anytime without problem...


I installed newest chipsetdrivers for x570 5950x on win 11. Went from 297fps to about 230 fps 🤣


----------



## Imprezzion

I managed to do this together with a mate on his system.










Passed a full 3 hour TM5 Extreme test. Got hot (50c per DIMM) but not unstable.

10900KF @ all-core 5 with 45 cache.
MSI Z490 Unify (A70 BIOS).
4x8GB G.Skill Trident-Z 3600C17 B-Die (SR).
1.49v DRAM 1.30v SA 1.25v IO.

Unfortunately we cannot get a higher frequency to stabilize at any timing / ODT / Skew combination with all 4 DIMM's installed, but this is a huge improvement over 3600 17-18-18 XMP lol.


----------



## Gen.

cstkl1 said:


> what u trying to say. ppl have to agree just because you did 1N on dr on apex? even-though with crappy timings?
> and afaik theres a chinese guy with good timimgs dud 1T hci stabld 4700 1T
> shouldnt like think before you ask others.


Chinese with 4700 CR1 to 2 * 16GB DR? I'm waiting for a screenshot. If there are 2 * 8GB, then I will disappoint. 11 gene / apex can and 4900/5000 CR1 for 2 * 8GB


PhoenixMDA said:


> Don't let any members annoy you, It wouldn't be worth the time


Thank you  Yes, I just don't like empty words that are not captured by screenshots. I can also say that I did 4000 on 11-11-11-28 on MSI Z490. But I have already said that when CL is 14, then this is 15, if 13, then this is 14. 4000CL11 cannot be done in any way, since this is impossible (and I'm not talking about voltage, but about the technical component, just like 4800 13-13 , only 14-13).


----------



## Imprezzion

Gains bro! It's still running now, 2h34m in. No errors.
4x8GB Trident-Z 3600C17 B-Die. 1.49v DRAM, 1.35v SA, 1.25v IO, 5Ghz all-core 10900KF, 46 cache, MSI Z490 Unify. ODT 80-40-40, auto slopes.

I'm quite impressed with this result on 4 DIMM's with a very low bin b-die kit. Especially with the temps of the DIMM's. They have no active cooling in terms of a fan and being 4 DIMM's next to each other they sit at 48-49c the entire time but seem to take it just fine.


----------



## 丶麦香

Gen. said:


> Chinese with 4700 CR1 to 2 * 16GB DR? I'm waiting for a screenshot. If there are 2 * 8GB, then I will disappoint. 11 gene / apex can and 4900/5000 CR1 for 2 * 8GB
> 
> Thank you  Yes, I just don't like empty words that are not captured by screenshots. I can also say that I did 4000 on 11-11-11-28 on MSI Z490. But I have already said that when CL is 14, then this is 15, if 13, then this is 14. 4000CL11 cannot be done in any way, since this is impossible (and I'm not talking about voltage, but about the technical component, just like 4800 13-13 , only 14-13).


Please check it. 
10700K SP122 with extraordinary IMC ,16Gb*2 4700C16-17 TM5 anta777-extreme passed on MSI Z590 Unify-X.
You can have a chat with the owner by 咸鱼APP (Chinese App, which is very similar with ebay） 9.0€LWDBXoy4xDx€ https://m.tb.cn/h.fXTBU0x 快来捡漏【神雕imc 10700k雕 10900k雕 sp122分】


----------



## Gen.

First, it is cr2, not cr1. Secondly, there is a chiller (low temperatures; processor 10 degrees). With a RAM temperature of 15-20 degrees, almost anyone can achieve similar results.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Gen. said:


> Thank you  Yes, I just don't like empty words that are not captured by screenshots. I can also say that I did 4000 on 11-11-11-28 on MSI Z490. But I have already said that when CL is 14, then this is 15, if 13, then this is 14. 4000CL11 cannot be done in any way, since this is impossible (and I'm not talking about voltage, but about the technical component, just like 4800 13-13 , only 14-13).


2x16GB 4266 CR1 was the best that i have reached, by testing 4400CL15 CR1 my bios crashed with Code 00.At this point i have reset it and let it be^^.

My IMC is not the best, i cant boot 4800 CR2, arround 4770 is the limit and i can also do 4700CL16-17 like stable without frozen temp´s^^ .
But if i let the nice screen away like this









The real stability at my case is 4666CL16-17 with many manual settings, to have a real 100% stable reproducible stability in every! boot.
Perhap´s the Unify X is better there as the ApexXII in the "out of the box" stability, that is the problem for the most people^^.

But 2x16GB 4400CR1 i dont test anymore, i dont want crash my system.
And i dont have seen more with 2x16GB B-Die @ CR1 with CML, but i dont look on "chinese Ebay".^^


----------



## munternet

Hi everybody
It's been 6 months now running fairly high vccio and vccsa, oh and vdimm and it's been rock solid still with perfect boots every time 
I will post if anything breaks 

5.2/49 1.32v LLC7
4600-16-17-17-36
1.58vdimm (water cooled)
1.43vccio
1.45vccsa


----------



## pipes

munternet said:


> Hi everybody
> It's been 6 months now running fairly high vccio and vccsa, oh and vdimm and it's been rock solid still with perfect boots every time
> I will post if anything breaks
> 
> 5.2/49 1.32v LLC7
> 4600-16-17-17-36
> 1.58vdimm (water cooled)
> 1.43vccio
> 1.45vccsa
> 
> View attachment 2523776
> 
> View attachment 2523777
> View attachment 2523778


Which temp you have for that good voltage with stress test?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Gen.

@*PhoenixMDA*

I would be glad to see a txt and cmo file with these settings. Thanks.


----------



## Imprezzion

Sweet, it went lower on tRFC with no real issues so far and also a voltage drop 1.50v --> 1.480v. I'll let it run up to 3 cycles again. I wonder how much lower we can go with either voltage or maybe even 10's on tRDWR. 
This cheap-o 4x8 kit really takes whatever we throw at it except frequency. It walls hard on 4133 as in it'll do whatever we set at 4133 but as soon as you go 4200 and above it's a disaster to even train RTL IO let alone get any timing stable lol.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Gen. said:


> @*PhoenixMDA*
> 
> I would be glad to see a txt and cmo file with these settings. Thanks.


I have send you from my selected 3200bin/4000c14, you will see the differences of necessary settings.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Gen. said:


> @*PhoenixMDA*
> 
> I would be glad to see a txt and cmo file with these settings. Thanks.


Hey, mind sharing your txt or cmo file for your high frequency CR1 config?


----------



## robalm

I need some help to setup some cooling for my ram.
Should i go for this, a 40mm fan, or any better tips?
I have 140mm and 120mm fans.


----------



## Astral85

Asrock Timing Configurator still won't open with Core Isolation disabled in Windows 11.


----------



## cstkl1

robalm said:


> I need some help to setup some cooling for my ram.
> Should i go for this, a 40mm fan, or any better tips?
> I have 140mm and 120mm fans.
> View attachment 2523946


that wont help. too low. 
better to get a ram block/heatspreader


----------



## nikolaus85

guys any advice about trfc? I started from 320, but i can run 280 stable on tm5 extreme. Since i saw almost everyone running like 300 or 320, is there a real reason to keep it under 300? Or is it useless? Thank you.


----------



## Gen.

nikolaus85 said:


> guys any advice about trfc? I started from 320, but i can run 280 stable on tm5 extreme. Since i saw almost everyone running like 300 or 320, is there a real reason to keep it under 300? Or is it useless? Thank you.


Normal tRFC is 120-160ns. It can be different for each frequency and voltage.


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> Normal tRFC is 120-160ns. It can be different for each frequency and voltage.


does it make big difference in performance?

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## newls1

How does this Memory OC look to you guys? Im certainly not looking to break any records, just something fast and wont bottleneck me in games, etc... Memory is 2x16GB G.Skill B die 3600 CL14 Kit running at current speed in this picture. How do my RTL/IOL's look to you guys? Gets me 36ns in aida64 latency test


----------



## aDyerSituation

Either I am completely unlucky or missing something. Failed with this after 1100% in Karhu
dram 1.5v SA 1.35 IO 1.32. couldnt even make it that far without upping SA and IO
these are patriot viper 4400 cl19 bdie. have only messed with primaries and voltage rest on auto

Do I need to pump more voltage somewhere? I have a fan pointed at the ram as well


----------



## fray_bentos

aDyerSituation said:


> Either I am completely unlucky or missing something. Failed with this after 1100% in Karhu
> dram 1.5v SA 1.35 IO 1.32. couldnt even make it that far without upping SA and IO
> these are patriot viper 4400 cl19 bdie. have only messed with primaries and voltage rest on auto
> 
> Do I need to pump more voltage somewhere? I have a fan pointed at the ram as well
> View attachment 2524120


Is your PC ever going to face "1100% in Karhu" pounding ever again? Probably temps as high as they might ever get (depending on whether your GPU dumps hot air on your RAM). If so just run it at that and see if you stay stable for your actual usage. Relax and move on.


----------



## aDyerSituation

fray_bentos said:


> Is your PC ever going to face "1100% in Karhu" pounding ever again? Probably temps as high as they might ever get (depending on whether your GPU dumps hot air on your RAM). If so just run it at that and see if you stay stable for your actual usage. Relax and move on.


If this was cpu overclocking I would agree with you, but ram overclocking can cause a lot of weird problems if not stable.


----------



## YaqY

Has anyone here tested G.Skill 4000 16-16 1.4V, 3600 14-14 1.45V and 4400 17-18 1.5V Dual rank bins. Looking over these three and not sure which one to choose, i think maybe the 4000 16-16 or 3600 14-14.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Best chance of a bin for higher frequency is the 4400cl17, but not said that you have luck.


----------



## bscool

YaqY said:


> Has anyone here tested G.Skill 4000 16-16 1.4V, 3600 14-14 1.45V and 4400 17-18 1.5V Dual rank bins. Looking over these three and not sure which one to choose, i think maybe the 4000 16-16 or 3600 14-14.


I have had 4000c16-16-16, 3600 14-15-15 and 4400c17. 4400c17 is the best, 4000c16 2nd and 3600c14-15-15 3rd. But I only had 1 of each and there still some luck or lotto involved. I have seen some say there 4000c16-16-16 kits didn't OC very good but mine were some of the best I have had very close to the 4400c17 kit.

For the money the 4000c16-16-16 kits are priced very good.


----------



## The Pook

I'd go for the 4400 17-18-18 kit if the prices are equal. I went with the loser bin 4266 17-18-18 version and have been happy with it.


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> How does this Memory OC look to you guys? Im certainly not looking to break any records, just something fast and wont bottleneck me in games, etc... Memory is 2x16GB G.Skill B die 3600 CL14 Kit running at current speed in this picture. How do my RTL/IOL's look to you guys? Gets me 36ns in aida64 latency test
> 
> View attachment 2524069


anyone assist please?!


----------



## ViTosS

Guys I need some help here, I was diagnosing which specific timing was causing me instability at 4400CL16, I found that tWRRD_sg and dg at 30/26 (resulting in tWTR_L and S at 8/4) I couldn't pass 8 min of Karhu, so I've set them AUTO and was able to pass, which value should I put them now?


----------



## ViTosS

This mobo weird as hell, after a reboot I lost the stability again..., but at least I found that I can not reduce nothing from the AUTO on those timings, because I reduced 1 an gave error in both (1 in each), or maybe the stability was lost during retraining when I changed timings, this mobo sucks...


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> This mobo weird as hell, after a reboot I lost the stability again..., but at least I found that I can not reduce nothing from the AUTO on those timings, because I reduced 1 an gave error in both (1 in each), or maybe the stability was lost during retraining when I changed timings, this mobo sucks...


I really don't know what's up with your board then. I did my own RAM on a Ace which is fine between boots for months and months on many different profiles.

I just 2 pages ago did my mates RAM on a Unify (with a 10900KF @ BIOS A70) and even that cheap-o bin 3600C17 had no issues at all and runs 4133C16 with extremely tight subs and RTL/IO pretty easily even on 4 DIMM's with very minimal voltages with many boots and even a full clean install from 10 to 11 dev without any issues.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> I really don't know what's up with your board then. I did my own RAM on a Ace which is fine between boots for months and months on many different profiles.
> 
> I just 2 pages ago did my mates RAM on a Unify (with a 10900KF @ BIOS A70) and even that cheap-o bin 3600C17 had no issues at all and runs 4133C16 with extremely tight subs and RTL/IO pretty easily even on 4 DIMM's with very minimal voltages with many boots and even a full clean install from 10 to 11 dev without any issues.


I saw in the Unify thread in past time some people complaining about this, inconsistency of RAM OC with this board, I think I have a faulty board like they had...


----------



## PhoenixMDA

bscool said:


> I have had 4000c16-16-16, 3600 14-15-15 and 4400c17. 4400c17 is the best, 4000c16 2nd and 3600c14-15-15 3rd. But I only had 1 of each and there still some luck or lotto involved. I have seen some say there 4000c16-16-16 kits didn't OC very good but mine were some of the best I have had very close to the 4400c17 kit.
> 
> For the money the 4000c16-16-16 kits are priced very good.


Price-performance is the 4000c16-16 top, but the chance to get a Kit with really consistent stability for higher frequency is lower as the 4400c17.
But the voltage is good.
It's like the 4000c14Bin, i had 2 Kit's modul 79/80/81/82.Kit 1 70/80 cant do tRDRD_sg on 6, it's need 7, but possible to get it gsat stable 4600+.But no CL17.
The 2.Kit 81/82 does tRDRD_sg 6, but not Gsat stable at 4600.
Modul 80 with 81 works fine 4600CL17-17 and 4666c16-17 100% Gsat and boot stable.4700c16 Gsat is possible but difficult.

It's really difficult to find a Kit with 2 like equal sticks.
My old 3200Cl14 need much more voltage but the sticks went well with each other, Gsat stable 4700c17 was possible 4666 also boot/ reboot stable.

It's really lottery, a really good Kit is in reboot stability like perfekt.


----------



## nikolaus85

ViTosS said:


> This mobo weird as hell, after a reboot I lost the stability again..., but at least I found that I can not reduce nothing from the AUTO on those timings, because I reduced 1 an gave error in both (1 in each), or maybe the stability was lost during retraining when I changed timings, this mobo sucks...


i thinks yours vccio is really too low. Try bump it (and lower vdram a bit if possible), maybe it will solve your issues. I have a unify, running 4400 c17 17 17 280, 34.8ns latency with all timings tuned. The training works great, it always trains same values every boot (i am tm5 extreme stable).


----------



## ViTosS

nikolaus85 said:


> i thinks yours vccio is really too low. Try bump it (and lower vdram a bit if possible), maybe it will solve your issues. I have a unify, running 4400 c17 17 17 280, 34.8ns latency with all timings tuned. The training works great, it always trains same values every boot (i am tm5 extreme stable).


No it's not, my problem is temperature, RAM at 48c gave error, tried increasing VCCIO and didn't work, found out it was heat.


----------



## Betroz

Here is a 4266 16-17-17-36 profile for anyone interessted


----------



## ViTosS

Betroz said:


> Here is a 4266 16-17-17-36 profile for anyone interessted


How is your copy that high? Mine for reference, just finished my 24/7 RAM OC, not the tightest possible timings like tWR, tRFC, tRRD_L, tWRRD_sg/dg and tRDWR_sg/dg but it's stable and I'm happy with that, DRAM voltage is the lowest possible that can sustain 50c+ heat stable, IO/SA not optimized to it's fullest, but 1.23v and 1.30v is completely fine for 24/7, had a lot of headache trying to stabilize 16-16-16-36 and nothing was possible, so ended up using 16-17-17-37, thanks @cstkl1 for telling me that 
The final stress test will be Prime95 112k later


----------



## bscool

@ViTosS DR vs SR. Copy will be higher on DR. 1,500+ or something like that as guesstimate.


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> How is your copy that high? Mine for reference, just finished my 24/7 RAM OC, not the tightest possible timings like tWR, tRFC, tRRD_L, tWRRD_sg/dg and tRDWR_sg/dg but it's stable and I'm happy with that, DRAM voltage is the lowest possible that can sustain 50c+ heat stable, IO/SA not optimized to it's fullest, but 1.23v and 1.30v is completely fine for 24/7, had a lot of headache trying to stabilize 16-16-16-36 and nothing was possible, so ended up using 16-17-17-37, thanks @cstkl1 for telling me that
> The final stress test will be Prime95 112k later
> 
> View attachment 2524571
> 
> 
> View attachment 2524572


I've always figured my low copy bandwidth was a product of my rather average 10600k, but after seeing countless others having the same issue I'm convinced MSI's Z490 copy is straight GIMPED. What timings are actually tied to copy bandwidth? I've never been able to get it anywhere near my read and write results, usually settles around 7-8000 MB/s lower. I see others on ASUS Z490 with completely opposite results... 

I swear it's a hate/love relationship with MSI motherboards, just not sure how to feel at this point.


----------



## bscool

@sixty9sublime I have had both z490 Apex and z490 unify and they are very close if using the same CPU, mem timings and mem clocks. You are probably looking at DR vs SR.

I don't have a screen shot of sub timings but they are close but not exact. Unify subs where a little looser.


----------



## sixty9sublime

bscool said:


> @sixty9sublime I have had both z490 Apex and z490 unify and they are very close if using the same CPU, mem timings and mem clocks. You are probably looking at DR vs SR.
> 
> I don't have a screen shot of sub timings but they are close but not exact. Unify subs where a little looser.


That just may be the case. Really appreciate the direct comparison. Only paying attention to other Unify posts however shows a huge discrepancy in copy bandwidth regardless of SR/DR. 

Just ordered a second 2x8gb kit to see if the differences between SR/DR is noticeable while gaming. Will report back with results. Hoping I'll be able to keep my current 4266 C16 profile but after looking over the unify thread that might be a stretch.


----------



## bscool

sixty9sublime said:


> That just may be the case. Really appreciate the direct comparison. Only paying attention to other Unify posts however shows a huge discrepancy in copy bandwidth regardless of SR/DR.
> 
> Just ordered a second 2x8gb kit to see if the differences between SR/DR is noticeable while gaming. Will report back with results. Hoping I'll be able to keep my current 4266 C16 profile but after looking over the unify thread that might be a stretch.


I haven't seen the huge difference. Also comparing 6, 8 core to 10 core etc. There are differences in copy and latency there too. Needs to be apples to apples to compare. Not 6 core vs 10 core DR vs SR.


----------



## bscool

@sixty9sublime What kit did you order? I have a couple dozen of kits from SR and DR. The latest DR are REALLY good. I bet you get as good or better than your SR clocks and timings. From 3200c14 to 4400c17, 4000c14 they are all really good or they kits I have gotten. There are all so close it isn't really worth the extra $$ for the 4000c14 kits unless you want every last ..1 ns less latency.

I just got a kit of the 2x16 4000c14 and they are binned to the limit out of the box. @0451 went thru 3 kits to get a really good kit of 4000c14 kit. I think the 4000c16-16-16 is the sweet spot for $$. But it is lotto in the end.


----------



## ViTosS

bscool said:


> @sixty9sublime I have had both z490 Apex and z490 unify and they are very close if using the same CPU, mem timings and mem clocks. You are probably looking at DR vs SR.
> 
> I don't have a screen shot of sub timings but they are close but not exact. Unify subs where a little looser.


Oh that reduce in latency of the 10700k compared to 10900k make me jealous 

I think if I run a lot of times the copy box I can get to 62-63 range too...

After changing 16-16-16-36 to 16-17-17-37 my latency went up from 35.2 to 35.6ns, which of those last 3 timings are the most responsible for that? Mabe I can tune a bit


----------



## nikolaus85

sixty9sublime said:


> That just may be the case. Really appreciate the direct comparison. Only paying attention to other Unify posts however shows a huge discrepancy in copy bandwidth regardless of SR/DR.
> 
> Just ordered a second 2x8gb kit to see if the differences between SR/DR is noticeable while gaming. Will report back with results. Hoping I'll be able to keep my current 4266 C16 profile but after looking over the unify thread that might be a stretch.


i wanted to add another kit of ram, but i am worried about overclocking on 4 dimms. I would like to get a 2x16 4400 cl 17 17 18 kit.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sixty9sublime

bscool said:


> @sixty9sublime What kit did you order? I have a couple dozen of kits from SR and DR. The latest DR are REALLY good. I bet you get as good or better than your SR clocks and timings. From 3200c14 to 4400c17, 4000c14 they are all really good or they kits I have gotten. There are all so close it isn't really worth the extra $$ for the 4000c14 kits unless you want every last ..1 ns less latency.
> 
> I just got a kit of the 2x16 4000c14 and they are binned to the limit out of the box. @0451 went thru 3 kits to get a really good kit of 4000c14 kit. I think the 4000c16-16-16 is the sweet spot for $$. But it is lotto in the end.


Currently running a team t-force xtreem 4133 18-18-18-38 SR kit. Pretty happy with their performance as they scale really well, just held back by my IMC at the moment. I was lucky enough to find a second kit (used) which has been almost impossible for the last 6 months as this particular kit was discontinued. 

I'd definitely love to move to a 2x16gb kit but prices are still kinda stupid IMOl and I'm already invested in these (tweak time etc.).


----------



## sixty9sublime

nikolaus85 said:


> i wanted to add another kit of ram, but i am worried about overclocking on 4 dimms. I would like to get a 2x16 4400 cl 17 17 18 kit.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Had the same reservations but will report back with results when my second kit arrives. If I can match my current profile 4266 C16 I'll consider it a win haha


----------



## bscool

ViTosS said:


> Oh that reduce in latency of the 10700k compared to 10900k make me jealous
> 
> I think if I run a lot of times the copy box I can get to 62-63 range too...
> 
> After changing 16-16-16-36 to 16-17-17-37 my latency went up from 35.2 to 35.6ns, which of those last 3 timings are the most responsible for that? Mabe I can tune a bit


There are a few timings you could bring down a bit but I cant tell you as you have to try and see if it is stable and what trains. You are pretty good already not a whole lot to improve other than for benchmarks. 

One thing I don't like about the Unify as training and rtl/iols is much trickier than Asus. Ill post my subs and you can compare but even mine could be tightened a little bit.


----------



## bscool

The z490 Unify will be limited to around 4266c16-16-16 on 4x8. 2x16 can do 4400c16-17-17. Or that is what I got stable. Also depends on IMC some.

I could run 4400c17-18-18 with 4x8 for daily and gaming but it wouldn't pass memtests. Daisy chain MB do better with 2 sticks and also harder to cool 4 dimms packed together vs 2 with space between for air flow.


----------



## bscool

sixty9sublime said:


> Had the same reservations but will report back with results when my second kit arrives. If I can match my current profile 4266 C16 I'll consider it a win haha


Where are you ordering from? Just wondering if they don't work out for you can you send them back. I can send you a 2x16. I have enough just sitting here.


----------



## jeiselramos

YaqY said:


> Has anyone here tested G.Skill 4000 16-16 1.4V, 3600 14-14 1.45V and 4400 17-18 1.5V Dual rank bins. Looking over these three and not sure which one to choose, i think maybe the 4000 16-16 or 3600 14-14.


My 4000C16 does 4400C17 tweaked with subtiming at 1.46


----------



## sixty9sublime

bscool said:


> The z490 Unify will be limited to around 4266c16-16-16 on 4x8. 2x16 can do 4400c16-17-17. Or that is what I got stable. Also depends on IMC some.
> 
> I could run 4400c17-18-18 with 4x8 for daily and gaming but it wouldn't pass memtests. Daisy chain MB do better with 2 sticks and also harder to cool 4 dimms packed together vs 2 with space between for air flow.


You make some good points here. Didn't even think about the cooling situation...I'm already at 1.51v at 4266 and am only running 1x 60mm at the top of the case blowing down. Definitely not ideal but I haven't quite figured out how to add a bigger fan in my current config. Having a 3000 series founder card really complicates the situation and when paired with a NH-U12A there's really nothing to attach a fan to. 

As for the second kit, I found someone on r/hardwareswap that had a set just collecting dust. If 4x8 doesn't end up working out I'll definitely be in touch.


----------



## The Pook

sixty9sublime said:


> You make some good points here. Didn't even think about the cooling situation...I'm already at 1.51v at 4266 and am only running 1x 60mm at the top of the case blowing down. Definitely not ideal but I haven't quite figured out how to add a bigger fan in my current config. Having a 3000 series founder card really complicates the situation and when paired with a NH-U12A there's really nothing to attach a fan to.
> 
> As for the second kit, I found someone on r/hardwareswap that had a set just collecting dust. If 4x8 doesn't end up working out I'll definitely be in touch.











DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095)


New Version 2.0 of the comfortable Pc Dimastech FlexFan to support and move your fan 120x120 without interfering disassembly fast Components hardware.The newest DimasTech FlexFan enable your fans to be suspended above the Components H




modmymods.com





it's what I'm using










they've got 80/92/140 too but they're EOL and are getting hard to find.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> The z490 Unify will be limited to around 4266c16-16-16 on 4x8. 2x16 can do 4400c16-17-17. Or that is what I got stable. Also depends on IMC some.
> 
> I could run 4400c17-18-18 with 4x8 for daily and gaming but it wouldn't pass memtests. Daisy chain MB do better with 2 sticks and also harder to cool 4 dimms packed together vs 2 with space between for air flow.


I was able to get 4400c17 on 4x8 Patriots on the Z490 Unify with an SP104 10700K.


----------



## sixty9sublime

The Pook said:


> DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095)
> 
> 
> New Version 2.0 of the comfortable Pc Dimastech FlexFan to support and move your fan 120x120 without interfering disassembly fast Components hardware.The newest DimasTech FlexFan enable your fans to be suspended above the Components H
> 
> 
> 
> 
> modmymods.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's what I'm using
> 
> View attachment 2524654
> 
> 
> they've got 80/92/140 too but they're EOL and are getting hard to find.


That's exactly what I've been looking for. Had a 92mm fan with the same bracket/wire way back in like 2004 lol


----------



## The Pook

sixty9sublime said:


> That's exactly what I've been looking for. Had a 92mm fan with the same bracket/wire way back in like 2004 lol


you'll need to get creative to use it though, they're made for their test benches and are just a threaded rod at the end. 

I just stuck it through the slots for HDDs and threw a lock nut on it. M4 x 0.7mm


----------



## sixty9sublime

The Pook said:


> you'll need to get creative to use it though, they're made for their test benches and are just a threaded rod at the end.
> 
> I just stuck it through the slots for HDDs and threw a lock nut on it. M4 x 0.7mm


Oof, pretty odd choice to not have options. The one I used in the past just screwed into one of the motherboard standoffs.


----------



## Imprezzion

Me and my mate never got past 4133C16 on the Unify with 4x8 but we can't really push the IO/SA or the CPU at all due to cooling. It's a very bad sample 10900KF that needs 1.26v for 5Ghz all-core and barely stays under 90c with a EVGA CLC360. 

It needs very little to get 4133C16 stable tho even with super tight subtimings and RTL IO. Just 1.48v DRAM, 1.20v IO 1.25v SA, 80-48-40 ODT's and Auto skews. DIMM's sit around 47c in TM5 even with 4 of them. 

Custom loop is on its way, waiting for the EK 011D XL distro plate to show up finally so I can mock up his rads and see what fittings we need. The rads are 2 secondhand 35 bucks EK CE 360's. Will be cooling the CPU with a EK Velocity block and a 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra. Hopefully the 2 CE 360's will handle it, otherwise we can mount a 3rd in the case pretty easily but I doubt the D5 in the distro plate will like that all that much lol.

I wonder if I can get him to buy a RAM block hehe 😂


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I heard Dimas Tech went out of business a couple years ago. Has anyone ordered from them lately?


----------



## nikolaus85

0451 said:


> I was able to get 4400c17 on 4x8 Patriots on the Z490 Unify with an SP104 10700K.


did you have good subtimings? I don't know if to buy another kit of patriot 4400 c19 or get a 2x16 kit of gskill 4400 c17 (that is not cheap anyway). I running 10700k 5.0ghz @ 1.28 llc4, 4400 c17 17 17 36 1.56 dram, 1.38 vccsa and 1.36 vccio.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

11900k @51|46 
Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
2x8gb @3866 14-14-14-28 1T @1.475 
SA|MCIO - 1.35|1.35

1T easy on Asus Bios 1102


----------



## newls1

nikolaus85 said:


> did you have good subtimings? I don't know if to buy another kit of patriot 4400 c19 or get a 2x16 kit of gskill 4400 c17 (that is not cheap anyway). I running 10700k 5.0ghz @ 1.28 llc4, 4400 c17 17 17 36 1.56 dram, 1.38 vccsa and 1.36 vccio.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Just a heads up, the current Patriot CL19 4400 kits are shipping with CL18/22/22 mem modules .... As buildzoid said, they are pulling a page from the book of SSD manufactures.. Instead of making a new product part number, they just change out a current product (for less performance) and not tell the consumer. All so they can profit just another 3cents more. Love these post covid times, we contantly getting F**KED


----------



## cstkl1

11900k @51|45
Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
2x8gb @5000 17-17-17-34 1T @1.575
SA|MCIO - 1.4|1.35


----------



## shocker94

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @51|45
> Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
> 2x8gb @5000 17-17-17-34 1T @1.575
> SA|MCIO - 1.4|1.35


Where can i get the new bios? The official site show the 1007 as the lastest.

Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

shocker94 said:


> Where can i get the new bios? The official site show the 1007 as the lastest.
> 
> Inviato dal mio AC2003 utilizzando Tapatalk


lookup safedisk


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> 4500c18..
> u can test this easy on timespy gpu scores
> 
> need to see all these sub timings also


Better to discuss it in this thread. Here are the numbers :


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Better to discuss it in this thread. Here are the numbers :


the 4533 is a mess dude
your trdrd_L/S sacrificed actual turn around performance... with 6/8
your trdwr 16 sacficed copy with the twrdrd_dr and your read also sacrificed with the trdrd_dr

your 4266 should be actually faster in coverage speed .. so dis is winner winner chicken dinner

u can test this out with running hci via runmemtest pro gui.. see which has the faster completion time of 100%


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> the 4533 is a mess dude


Yeah 4533 does not work. Highest stable memspeed for me is 4500. Thanx


----------



## nikolaus85

newls1 said:


> Just a heads up, the current Patriot CL19 4400 kits are shipping with CL18/22/22 mem modules .... As buildzoid said, they are pulling a page from the book of SSD manufactures.. Instead of making a new product part number, they just change out a current product (for less performance) and not tell the consumer. All so they can profit just another 3cents more. Love these post covid times, we contantly getting F**KED


how possible? Patriot blackout should be shipped with cl 18\22\22........different brands...same sad history...


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Just a heads up, the current Patriot CL19 4400 kits are shipping with CL18/22/22 mem modules .... As buildzoid said, they are pulling a page from the book of SSD manufactures.. Instead of making a new product part number, they just change out a current product (for less performance) and not tell the consumer. All so they can profit just another 3cents more. Love these post covid times, we contantly getting F**KED


Link?
Here in Norway I still see 4400 c19-19-19





Patriot Extreme Performance Viper Steel | På lager | Billig


1 421,00 kr DDR4, sett, 16 GB: 2 x 8 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4400 MHz / PC4-35200, CL19, 1.45 V, ikke-bufret, ikke-ECC, rødmetallsgrå. Rask levering




www.proshop.no





Different chips isn't unusal for memory. G.skill, corsair etc is doing the same. You need to check the spec before buying, and even check rev. number

Blackout is CL18 (18-26-26-46) :





Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series | Billig


1 432,00 kr DDR4, sett, 16 GB: 2 x 8 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4400 MHz / PC4-35200, CL18, 1.45 V, ikke-bufret, ikke-ECC, svart. Rask levering




www.proshop.no


----------



## bscool

The new Viper 4400 pdf with spec show 18-22-22.



https://assets.website-files.com/5cdb2ee0b102f96c3906500f/606b5ed1885677adcf9b5a5f_PVS416G440C9K_Sku%20Sheet_040221.pdf


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> The new Viper 4400 pdf with spec show 18-22-22.
> 
> 
> 
> https://assets.website-files.com/5cdb2ee0b102f96c3906500f/606b5ed1885677adcf9b5a5f_PVS416G440C9K_Sku%20Sheet_040221.pdf


Like I said, this isn't new.

G.skill has 2 different 4133c19 2x8 kits. The name is the same.


G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-4133 C19 DC SR - 16GB
One is CL19 (19-21-21-41)
Other is CL19 (19-19-19-39)


Same story for maybe all brands....


----------



## bscool

Nizzen said:


> Like I said, this isn't new.
> 
> G.skill has 2 different 4133c19 2x8 kits. The name is the same.
> 
> 
> G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-4133 C19 DC SR - 16GB
> One is CL19 (19-21-21-41)
> Other is CL19 (19-19-19-39)
> 
> 
> Same story for maybe all brands....


Just showing that updated specs changed. I remember the old pdf showed 19-19-19

Edit *








[Übersicht] - Die ultimative HARDWARELUXX Samsung 8Gb B-Die Liste - alle Hersteller (12.09.21)


Die ultimative HARDWARELUXX Samsung 8Gbit B-Die Liste Inhaltsverzeichnis / Table of Contents » 8GB Module & 2x8GB/4x8GB/8x8GB Kits (SS, SR) » 16GB Module & 2x16GB/4x16GB/8x16GB Kits (DS, DR) » 32GB Module & 2x32GB Kits (DC DIMM) » SO-DIMM 8GB/16GB Varianten (SR/DR) » Häufig gestellte Fragen...




www.hardwareluxx.de





Showing old vs new specs.*


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> Just showing that updated specs changed. I remember the old pdf showed 19-19-19


Anyway tnx for heads up 😘


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Link?
> Here in Norway I still see 4400 c19-19-19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot Extreme Performance Viper Steel | På lager | Billig
> 
> 
> 1 421,00 kr DDR4, sett, 16 GB: 2 x 8 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4400 MHz / PC4-35200, CL19, 1.45 V, ikke-bufret, ikke-ECC, rødmetallsgrå. Rask levering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proshop.no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Different chips isn't unusal for memory. G.skill, corsair etc is doing the same. You need to check the spec before buying, and even check rev. number
> 
> Blackout is CL18 (18-26-26-46) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series | Billig
> 
> 
> 1 432,00 kr DDR4, sett, 16 GB: 2 x 8 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4400 MHz / PC4-35200, CL18, 1.45 V, ikke-bufret, ikke-ECC, svart. Rask levering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proshop.no


heres your proof


----------



## Yamcha2209

Hi,
Is there any known issues with running 11900k and Apex at 1T? the chips run the default profile 4000 c16 at 1T and 4266 c16 at 1T
however 3600 will not be stable at 1T with the loosest timings.


----------



## nikolaus85

newls1 said:


> heres your proof


so i can't buy another kit of Patriot and get 4x8...i have to spend over 300 € to get a 2x16 gskill kit...good job Patriot, you are the smartest brand

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

nikolaus85 said:


> so i can't buy another kit of Patriot and get 4x8...i have to spend over 300 € to get a 2x16 gskill kit...good job Patriot, you are the smartest brand
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


In stock 5 places here in Norway. c19-19-19








Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 4400MHz 2x8GB (PVS416G440C9K) (DDR4-minner)


Sammenlign priser på Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 4400MHz 2x8GB (PVS416G440C9K) DDR4-minner. Finn tilbud fra 6 butikker, og les anmeldelser på Prisjakt. Sammenlign tilbud fra Patriot.




www.prisjakt.no





Like we said, this isn't news for RAM. It has been like this for years. Someone just made it up, like it was news to get more youtube "likes"


----------



## nikolaus85

Nizzen said:


> In stock 5 places here in Norway. c19-19-19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 4400MHz 2x8GB (PVS416G440C9K) (DDR4-minner)
> 
> 
> Sammenlign priser på Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 4400MHz 2x8GB (PVS416G440C9K) DDR4-minner. Finn tilbud fra 6 butikker, og les anmeldelser på Prisjakt. Sammenlign tilbud fra Patriot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.prisjakt.no


i would buy them from Amazon, but i don't know which version they will ship.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Wow those Norwegian prices are expensive for Patriot. Wow.









Patriot Viper Steel 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 4000 RAM Memory - Newegg.com


Buy Patriot Viper Steel 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model PVS416G440C9K with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Nizzen

nikolaus85 said:


> i would buy them from Amazon, but i don't know which version they will ship.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


It says 19-19-19 here, and if it's wrong, send them back. That's a good job 









Amazon.com: Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G440C9K : Electronics


Buy Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G440C9K: Computer Accessories & Peripherals - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## cstkl1

nikolaus85 said:


> how possible? Patriot blackout should be shipped with cl 18\22\22........different brands...same sad history...


cause they are garbage


----------



## Astral85

The issue with Asrock Timing Configurator on my Windows 11 machine seems to be certificate related. I'm not sure why the AsrDrv102 driver that's installed with the latest Timing Configurator 4.0.9 would be expired.  Has anyone got any ideas on how to fix this?


----------



## bscool

@Astral85 I just fired up my HTPC with the latest Win 11 22454 which is z390 Hero with Asrock Timing 4.0.4 and it worked with no issue.

Have you been using Win 11 with ASTC and it was working and got the error after an update or what? Did you try reinstalling ASTC like the error message says?


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm using 4.0.3 as newer doesn't work on MSI Ace but it runs fine on 11.


----------



## Astral85

bscool said:


> @Astral85 I just fired up my HTPC with the latest Win 11 22454 which is z390 Hero with Asrock Timing 4.0.4 and it worked with no issue.
> 
> Have you been using Win 11 with ASTC and it was working and got the error after an update or what? Did you try reinstalling ASTC like the error message says?


I clean installed Win 11 on a new NVMe a few weeks ago so it was a clean install of ASTC onto Win 11. It hasn't worked at all since trying to install it in Win 11. Reinstalling just gives the same error.


----------



## bscool

@Astral85 Hmm that is weird that an older version would work for me. Unless it is because I didn't clean install I upgraded my Win 10 to Win 11. 

I don't have Win 11 on any z590 systems right now so I cant test it out. I have been waiting until Oct 5 for the official release to do clean installs but if I try it before then Ill post back if I have issues or not.


----------



## Astral85

bscool said:


> @Astral85 Hmm that is weird that an older version would work for me. Unless it is because I didn't clean install I upgraded my Win 10 to Win 11.
> 
> I don't have Win 11 on any z590 systems right now so I cant test it out. I have been waiting until Oct 5 for the official release to do clean installs but if I try it before then Ill post back if I have issues or not.


I think I originally installed it with Core Isolation/Memory Integrity enabled and that is the warning you see from Microsoft in the first image I attached. However since disabling Core Isolation and reinstalling ASTC the error: driver cannot be loaded persists. Also the entries in Event Viewer each time I try to run ASTC: A certificate was explicitly revoked by it's issuer.

At this point I suspect it is a certificate issue, I'm just not comfortable about what to delete from the Windows Root Certificates or know if that will even fix it.


----------



## Imprezzion

I clean installed W11 as well and 4.0.3 just.. worked..


----------



## nikolaus85

guys i can pass anta extreme preset, but always get errors with usmus v3 25 cycles. Should i worry about it? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

Astral85 said:


> I think I originally installed it with Core Isolation/Memory Integrity enabled and that is the warning you see from Microsoft in the first image I attached. However since disabling Core Isolation and reinstalling ASTC the error: driver cannot be loaded persists. Also the entries in Event Viewer each time I try to run ASTC: A certificate was explicitly revoked by it's issuer.
> 
> At this point I suspect it is a certificate issue, I'm just not comfortable about what to delete from the Windows Root Certificates or know if that will even fix it.


I did an upgrade/Insider program to Windows 11 on z590 Apex/11900k and ASRTC 4.0.9 works. I will clean install when the iso is available from Microsoft with the final version.

Have you tried the z590 versions of Asus MemTweakit or MSI Dragon Balls? Those also work for me and are portable.


----------



## Vld

I’m stuck, need help.

Got this brand new G.Skill 2x16 Gb Elite kit, 4000 14-15-15-35. No matter what i do, no matter what voltages i push to dimms or imc it won’t clock higher then 4266 
Best what i could get is 4266 19-19-19-38, dimm 1.6, SA 1.35, memOC 1.5, IO1.25.

Apex Xiii board with latest bios, cpu is crap, 11900K SP50.

Got a feeling that this kit is alredy pushed to it’s limits. Any ideas ?


----------



## bscool

Vld said:


> I’m stuck, need help.
> 
> Got this brand new G.Skill 2x16 Gb Elite kit, 4000 14-15-15-35. No matter what i do, no matter what voltages i push to dimms or imc it won’t clock higher then 4266
> Best what i could get is 4266 19-19-19-38, dimm 1.6, SA 1.35, memOC 1.5, IO1.25.
> 
> Apex Xiii board with latest bios, cpu is crap, 11900K SP50.
> 
> Got a feeling that this kit is alredy pushed to it’s limits. Any ideas ?


It is the kit / z590 combo, same thing here. It will do 4600+ in z490/11900k. In z590/11900k maybe 4400 if I remember right but no 4533.

It does better in gear 1 like 3866c13-14-14 or 3866c14-14-14.

Have you tested gear 1 limit?

Edit, in the same z590Apex/11900k the new 2x16 4400c17 kit does 4600+. Same in z590 Hero with 11900k.

The 4000c14 kit does well in z490A with 10th gen also, 4533c16-17-17 boots right up.


----------



## Vld

bscool said:


> It is the kit, same thing here. It will do 4600+ in z490/11900k. In z590/11900k maybe 4400 if I remember right but no 4533.
> 
> It does better in gear 1 like 3866c13-14-14 or 3866c14-14-14.
> 
> Have you tested gear 1 limit?
> 
> Edit, in the same z590Apex/11900k the new 2x16 4400c17 kit does 4600+. Same in z590 Hero with 11900k.


Will try !

I’v got G.Skill 2x32Gb 4600 20-30-50 kit ( F4-4600C20D-64GTZR ), it  can do 4800 19-24-29. It makes me believe that cpu or board are not ones to blame.


----------



## bscool

Vld said:


> Will try !
> 
> I’v got G.Skill 2x32Gb 4600 20-30-50 kit ( F4-4600C20D-64GTZR ), it  can do 4800 19-24-29. It makes me believe that cpu or board are not ones to blame.


Do you have a z490 Apex also? If you do try changing these algorithms for it to [email protected] with 11900k. It probably wont boot without changing them.

Edit needs mem io 1.4 mem sa 1.5. Might be able to tweak them down but that is for quick testing.









Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


Some interesting memtest pictures on the unifyx, looks like they have optimised for dual rank bdie + rocketlake. I'll have to look further into this, I haven't had a good experience with DR so far but maybe they tried something I didn't.




www.overclock.net


----------



## Vld

delete


----------



## Vld

Thank you ! At least it posted, crashed in 1 sec after booting to win desktop. Guess can call it a progress  Any other ideas are more then welcome !!!


----------



## Astral85

bscool said:


> I did an upgrade/Insider program to Windows 11 on z590 Apex/11900k and ASRTC 4.0.9 works. I will clean install when the iso is available from Microsoft with the final version.
> 
> Have you tried the z590 versions of Asus MemTweakit or MSI Dragon Balls? Those also work for me and are portable.


MemTweakIt appears to be a ROG exclusive to the XIII Apex, there is no download for it on the Apex downloads page. Where else could I possibly get a legitimate copy of MemTweakIt?


----------



## bscool

@Astral85 MemTweakIt.exe From this thread ROG Maximus XIII Apex


----------



## bscool

Vld said:


> Thank you ! At least it posted, crashed in 1 sec after booting to win desktop. Guess can call it a progress  Any other ideas are more then welcome !!!


Looks like it is IMC dependent also. I put my SP85 11900k in z590A and 4000c14 kit can run 4533. I had the SP50 in and it wont run the 4000c14 [email protected]

But the SP50 can do 3866+ in gear 1, SP85 only 3733 in gear 1 on z590A.

Still the 4000c14 is harder to get running at higher clocks in gear 2. The 4400c17 kit will do 4600+ I cant get the 4000c14 kit past 4533 in gear 2 on z590A.


----------



## YaqY

bscool said:


> Looks like it is IMC dependent also. I put my SP85 11900k in z590A and 4000c14 kit can run 4533. I had the SP50 in and it wont run the 4000c14 [email protected]
> 
> But the SP50 can do 3866+ in gear 1, SP85 only 3733 in gear 1 on z590A.
> 
> Still the 4000c14 is harder to get running at higher clocks in gear 2. The 4400c17 kit will do 4600+ I cant get the 4000c14 kit past 4533 in gear 2 on z590A.


Can’t seem to see 4400c17 ripjaws in stock, newegg out of stock. Hopefully they restock soon.


----------



## bscool

YaqY said:


> Can’t seem to see 4400c17 ripjaws in stock, newegg out of stock. Hopefully they restock soon.


I just looked at the US Newegg site and they show in stock.


----------



## YaqY

bscool said:


> I just looked at the US Newegg site and they show in stock.


Looks like it just came back in stock ty.


----------



## Imprezzion

I had to re-do my entire RAM OC after wiping CMOS and forgot to save profiles properly on USB.
I put a full custom loop in my rig and the top rad kinda half covers the DIMM's so I put a 120mm a bit closer to the sticks and at 1k RPM for more cooling. 

I think this is about the most efficient I can get my RAM. Very low voltage requirements, haven't tested any lower but can probably go lower on vDIMM, IO and SA. 
I might try to push for 11's or 10's on tRDWR and ~280 tRFC but that is about it I guess. Wouldn't know what else to tighten up further. Primary timings cannot move, 16-16-16 is a no go, C15 is possible but needs 1.60v and I don't wanna run 1.60v 24/7 with the DIMM's half covered under the rads.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I had to re-do my entire RAM OC after wiping CMOS and forgot to save profiles properly on USB.
> I put a full custom loop in my rig and the top rad kinda half covers the DIMM's so I put a 120mm a bit closer to the sticks and at 1k RPM for more cooling.
> 
> I think this is about the most efficient I can get my RAM. Very low voltage requirements, haven't tested any lower but can probably go lower on vDIMM, IO and SA.
> I might try to push for 11's or 10's on tRDWR and ~280 tRFC but that is about it I guess. Wouldn't know what else to tighten up further. Primary timings cannot move, 16-16-16 is a no go, C15 is possible but needs 1.60v and I don't wanna run 1.60v 24/7 with the DIMM's half covered under the rads.
> 
> View attachment 2525179


very good. Do you just use anta extreme to test the ram? I mean the normal preset with 3 cycles.


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> very good. Do you just use anta extreme to test the ram? I mean the normal preset with 3 cycles.


Nah, I let it run the full 3 cycle Anta777 Extreme, Prime95 1h small 30GB RAM AVX off, Prime95 Blend 30GB RAM AVX on, then if I feel like it I let it run HCI 30GB overnight as well but usually can't be bothered..


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Nah, I let it run the full 3 cycle Anta777 Extreme, Prime95 1h small 30GB RAM AVX off, Prime95 Blend 30GB RAM AVX on, then if I feel like it I let it run HCI 30GB overnight as well but usually can't be bothered..


i use anta extreme, hci, memtest pro, realbench (2 hours) and occt (1 hour). I don't feel like running something overnight.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sixty9sublime

Imprezzion said:


> I had to re-do my entire RAM OC after wiping CMOS and forgot to save profiles properly on USB.
> I put a full custom loop in my rig and the top rad kinda half covers the DIMM's so I put a 120mm a bit closer to the sticks and at 1k RPM for more cooling.
> 
> I think this is about the most efficient I can get my RAM. Very low voltage requirements, haven't tested any lower but can probably go lower on vDIMM, IO and SA.
> I might try to push for 11's or 10's on tRDWR and ~280 tRFC but that is about it I guess. Wouldn't know what else to tighten up further. Primary timings cannot move, 16-16-16 is a no go, C15 is possible but needs 1.60v and I don't wanna run 1.60v 24/7 with the DIMM's half covered under the rads.
> 
> View attachment 2525179


Any reason you decided to run RTLs higher than normal? They should be around 61/63 for C16 on MSI. Was it just how they trained?

EDIT: BTW, Newegg is having a pretty huge sale (20-30% off) on some fairly tightly binned kits today if anyone has the money to blow


----------



## bscool

sixty9sublime said:


> Any reason you decided to run RTLs higher than normal? They should be around 61/63 for C16 on MSI. Was it just how they trained?
> 
> EDIT: BTW, Newegg is having a pretty huge sale (20-30% off) on some fairly tightly binned kits today if anyone has the money to blow


Oh snap 2x8 4800c17 royals $225. G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4800 Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4800C17D-16GTRS - Newegg.com

2x16 4400c17 Royals $280








G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Imprezzion

sixty9sublime said:


> Any reason you decided to run RTLs higher than normal? They should be around 61/63 for C16 on MSI. Was it just how they trained?
> 
> EDIT: BTW, Newegg is having a pretty huge sale (20-30% off) on some fairly tightly binned kits today if anyone has the money to blow


Not specifically, they trained much higher, 69/69/11/11, but for some reason the RTL initials do not wanna POST any lower. If I try to adjust it so that RTL is around 61-63 it just no post's with memory OC failed. This is on fixed mode for RTL/IO, maybe on dynamic / auto it does better?

EDIT: Ok, I can get that to work actually, but I have to drop IO Offset below 21 to do it. I have to run 19/20 otherwise it wants to do 5/6 for IO which it won't post with. It will only post 61/63/7/7 not even /6/6. Is IO 7 good enough or?


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> It will only post 61/63/7/7 not even /6/6. Is IO 7 good enough or?


I use RTL 61/61 and IOL 7/7 with my 4266C16 profile (2x16GB), so normal values I think.


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @51|45
> Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
> 2x8gb @5000 17-17-17-34 1T @1.575
> SA|MCIO - 1.4|1.35


Where did you download this memtest version? I bought 7.0 from ahci site but it's different


----------



## cstkl1

@Betroz 
@Imprezzion 

rtl/iol is depended 90% on board tracing
and
10% ram pcb

hence y apex reign supreme


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> Where did you download this memtest version? I bought 7.0 from ahci site but it's different


its a gui launcher of memtest.


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> its a gui launcher of memtest.


I've only 4.0 version with GUI 

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


----------



## ViTosS

Which one of these 3 timings affects most the latency? I want to put some in 16 (or 36), I mean, 16-16-16-36 I had 35.2ns instead of 35.6ns being 16-17-17-37 like now.


----------



## KedarWolf

jeiselramos said:


> Where did you download this memtest version? I bought 7.0 from ahci site but it's different


Use the attached scripts, put them in your Memtest 7 folder that has the MTPclassic.exe version in it.

Change the .txt to .zip in the attached file.

It'll open Memtest 7 evenly spaced using 90% of your RAM, and each instance of Memtest is allocated to its own individual core, like instance 1 on thread 1, 2 on 2 etc, which is the best way to use MemTest.

Edit: You need to install AutoHotkey, then right-click, Run Script.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> Which one of these 3 timings affects most the latency? I want to put some in 16 (or 36), I mean, 16-16-16-36 I had 35.2ns instead of 35.6ns being 16-17-17-37 like now.
> 
> View attachment 2525274


trcd/trp


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> trcd/trp


Maybe I will try 16, if I can mantain the same voltage for DRAM... Since 16-16-16-36 wasn't stable anyway


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> Maybe I will try 16, if I can mantain the same voltage for DRAM... Since 16-16-16-36 wasn't stable anyway


temps. up to 4533 it needs to he below 45
4800 needs below 30


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> temps. up to 4533 it needs to he below 45
> 4800 needs below 30


I see... I'm already at the limit for air cooling RAM, 1.56v atm [email protected], stable till 53c (didn't let it heat more than that because was already with all fans 0 RPM in a ''cold'' day).


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> temps. up to 4533 it needs to he below 45
> 4800 needs below 30


Isn't that a bit relative? My DR RAM sticks can go above that and be stable. Maybe it's a combination of high memory frequency and low primary timings that make them more sensitive to temp.


----------



## ViTosS

Well when I change tRP to 16 in BIOS it doesn't change in Windows... even BIOS showing it at 16, I put tRP and tRCD to 16 and then only changed tRCD to 17 and tRP went up to 17 together, how can I set 16-17-16-36 like I want?


----------



## jeiselramos

ViTosS said:


> Well when I change tRP to 16 in BIOS it doesn't change in Windows... even BIOS showing it at 16, I put tRP and tRCD to 16 and then only changed tRCD to 17 and tRP went up to 17 together, how can I set 16-17-16-36 like I want?


It isn't possible on Intel platform

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

11900k @51|46 
Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
2x8gb @3866 13-14-14-141T @1.6 
SA|MCIO - 1.45|1.4


----------



## Imprezzion

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @51|46
> Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
> 2x8gb @3866 13-14-14-141T @1.6
> SA|MCIO - 1.45|1.4


Fan speed go brrr I guess. Lol. 21xx rpm.
And does 1T really require THAT much IO/SA volts? I wish my 4 DIMM board would boot 1T above 3600 lol but it struggles with 3600 enough already. Not torturing it any further.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> Fan speed go brrr I guess. Lol. 21xx rpm.
> And does 1T really require THAT much IO/SA volts? I wish my 4 DIMM board would boot 1T above 3600 lol but it struggles with 3600 enough already. Not torturing it any further.


you do realize this is like only one in the world afaik at the time of posting running this stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

cstkl1 said:


> you do realize this is like only one in the world afaik at the time of posting running this stable.


Probably, even tho Gen. showed plenty of results with 1T as well on much higher frequencies but k.

But then again, what does it matter. This is about as fast latency and bandwidth wise as 4400C17 2T with quite loose timings on way way less voltage. I don't see the point of 1T stability testing to this point all that much. It's great to achieve it and it's great for just the fun of overclocking and maybe benches and all but it's not like you're going to daily this. I hope at least.


----------



## cstkl1

Imprezzion said:


> Probably, even tho Gen. showed plenty of results with 1T as well on much higher frequencies but k.
> 
> But then again, what does it matter. This is about as fast latency and bandwidth wise as 4400C17 2T with quite loose timings on way way less voltage. I don't see the point of 1T stability testing to this point all that much. It's great to achieve it and it's great for just the fun of overclocking and maybe benches and all but it's not like you're going to daily this. I hope at least.


i am sorry what garbage did u just refer to?

this is daily.

1t vs 2t .. or any form of oc.
those who cant do it will always find some line of statement that makes it look like of they had the same computer they could do it.

not here to give ppl every post a lesson

as of why in rkl 1T matters for gear 1 buildzoid point was confirmed in testing.

SS are meant to drive ppl to aspire to do better with what they have.

atm chasing 5066c17 and later c16 consistency on gear 2. which is my prefered daily. till then its 3866c13 1T


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Fan speed go brrr I guess. Lol. 21xx rpm.
> And does 1T really require THAT much IO/SA volts? I wish my 4 DIMM board would boot 1T above 3600 lol but it struggles with 3600 enough already. Not torturing it any further.


That is 11th gen CPU, the users @Gen. 1t was on 10th gen CPU. Very different for io/sa on 1t in 1 to 1 from each gen at the same/similar clocks. 11th gen has gear1 and gear 2


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> That is 11th gen CPU, the users @Gen. 1t was on 10th gen CPU. Very different for io/sa on 1t in 1 to 1 from each gen at the same/similar clocks. 11th gen has gear1 and gear 2


Thanks for actually explaining something in stead of going full temper tantrum again like cstkl likes to do all so much apparently.

I just said I didn't understand why, and asked a direct question whether 1T required that much and mentioned that I don't hope he dailies that as there's no way in hell that IO/SA is considered "safe" daily even on 11th gen. 

So I have no idea what I did or said to deserve that kind of an answer unless I somehow triggered some god complex but yeah. More and more normal on here lately.. there's not a single topic left without some random toxicity thrown in for not knowing literally everything and even daring to ask or remark on something.


----------



## bscool

@Imprezzion One of my 11900k needs 1.5+sa to run 3733 gear 1 2t. 11th gen is a different beast. And IMC is all over the place. I frequently run 1.5 to 1.65sa. I would never do that on 10th gen.

If you look at the 11th gen thread most are running 1.5sa+ if high clock tight timing gear 1 unless the have a crazy good IMC.









Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


Yes, I used EZ Flash. Is that the preferred way? I'm not sure about the microcode. Yeah you should be good then. You check it under advanced tab in bios and CPU.




www.overclock.net


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> @Imprezzion One of my 11900k needs 1.5+sa to run 3733 gear 1 2t. 11th gen is a different beast. And IMC is all over the place. I frequently run 1.5 to 1.65sa. I would never do that on 10th gen.
> 
> If you look at the 11th gen thread most are running 1.5sa+ if high clock tight timing gear 1 unless the have a crazy good IMC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> Yes, I used EZ Flash. Is that the preferred way? I'm not sure about the microcode. Yeah you should be good then. You check it under advanced tab in bios and CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


But, what makes that safe all of a sudden. Not a single 14nm arch CPU has ever been generally accepted as "safe" in any voltage, Core, IO or SA, above 1.40v. People question some XMP kits that do 1.45v on 10th gen all the time, what makes 1.5v accepted all of a sudden on 11th gen. Did they change something in the architecture that makes it handle voltage so much better or something?


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> But, what makes that safe all of a sudden. Not a single 14nm arch CPU has ever been generally accepted as "safe" in any voltage, Core, IO or SA, above 1.40v. People question some XMP kits that do 1.45v on 10th gen all the time, what makes 1.5v accepted all of a sudden on 11th gen. Did they change something in the architecture that makes it handle voltage so much better or something?


1.52SA has been in intel spec for a while, whether its fine to daily or not depends on temps and other factors. I haven't heard of someone personally degrading a their 9th/10th/11th gen cpu with that SA. On 10th gen running that sort of SA gets me nothing for extra memory clocks, 11th gen seems to scale better especially in gear 1. IO i expect should be taken with more caution, it is a higher current rail. What is safe for IO i don't think anyone can answer, depends on too much, intel stock spec is at 1.05 but above that we don't know.


----------



## bscool

@Imprezzion I am just going by what others are running and what I found is needed to run certain clocks and timings.

Also when @shamino1978 and @safedisk have released bios updates in the past for z590 they said try 1.45io and 1.65sa to see if 3866 gear 1 is possible. I don't think they are saying these are "safe" but if someone wants safe are they really buying and Apex and spending as much in a kit of memory(2x16 4000c14) that you could buy a motherboard for?

Each person has to decide what they do and what they feel comfortable with. It is safe delidding your CPU or running water thru your pc or all the other on the edge stuff we do. But I do think 11th gen is more robust.

Also is 11th gen 14 nanometer? I admit I am pretty ignorant I just mess with this stuff. Edit Like @napata mentions below I can set 1.5v llc6 on 11th gen and keep it cool, I could not do that on 10th gen. So there is some differences clearly.


----------



## napata

Imprezzion said:


> But, what makes that safe all of a sudden. Not a single 14nm arch CPU has ever been generally accepted as "safe" in any voltage, Core, IO or SA, above 1.40v. People question some XMP kits that do 1.45v on 10th gen all the time, what makes 1.5v accepted all of a sudden on 11th gen. Did they change something in the architecture that makes it handle voltage so much better or something?


Atleast for the Core voltage RL can handle higher voltages. Stock RL runs like 50-100mv higher than earlier Skylake based CPUs. There's also the fact that an 11900k with ABT runs 1.4v+ core voltage and I've seen screenshots of a guy hitting 1.5v at auto settings with ABT. Considering ABT falls within warranty Intel feels confident RL can handle those voltages.


----------



## Needhelp666

I got 3600 mhz with cl 14 stable
ram voltage 1.4v
io 1.10v
sa 1.15v


----------



## Gen.

Please screen ATC. Perhaps your tCL=15. RTL-IOL on ATC. Thanks.


----------



## Imprezzion

napata said:


> Atleast for the Core voltage RL can handle higher voltages. Stock RL runs like 50-100mv higher than earlier Skylake based CPUs. There's also the fact that an 11900k with ABT runs 1.4v+ core voltage and I've seen screenshots of a guy hitting 1.5v at auto settings with ABT. Considering ABT falls within warranty Intel feels confident RL can handle those voltages.


I mean, I run 5.3 all-core 4.8 cache at 1.420v (VCC Sense, ~1.380v VR VOut / Die Sense) on 10900KF and technically that is within Intel spec as well. I can cool it but AVX gets a bit rough on the poor thing with Cinebench R23 hitting 78-81c across the cores and let's not talk about a power virus like Prime95 Small FFT with AVX.. 360+w power draw and low 90's for core temps. Still not outside the 95c spec, but is it "safe"? Probably not lol.

I have it set up with OCTVB at -1 at 74c so whenever it hits 75c it'll downclock to 5.2 @ 1.334v (1.296v Die Sense / VR VOut) which is much easier on it.

By the way is Windows 11 quite bad on AIDA64 latency for anyone else?
The bandwidth is pretty spot on compared to W10 for me but latency is way way higher. I usually got high 36's on this setup in W10 lol. Now i'm almost at 39... PPD and Virtualization are disabled before you ask .


----------



## bscool

@Imprezzion I noticed that also. I thought maybe I had some bloat running in the back ground on a Win 11 upgrade I did. So clean installed Win 10 and dropped around 1-1.5ns in latency.

Edit @Imprezzion did you clean install Win 11 or upgrade from 10?


----------



## chibi

Revived my 9900KS build and this is the best I can manage with the voltages. 

4200, c16, 1T - 1,400% HCI stable


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> @Imprezzion I noticed that also. I thought maybe I had some bloat running in the back ground on a Win 11 upgrade I did. So clean installed Win 10 and dropped around 1-1.5ns in latency.
> 
> Edit @Imprezzion did you clean install Win 11 or upgrade from 10?


Clean install. Full C drive M.2 wipe and Rufus installation USB . The rest of my disks like game libs aren't clean installed. And I did restore my onedrive back up for documents, music and such.

Back on 4200 15-17-17-35-300-2T now.
It needs 1.60v for that but a bit of relocating of my RAM fan and a bit more RPM means they stay under 43c even in TM5 at 1.60v. RTL IO adjusted to 61/61/7/7 as well. Still fully stable. Latency is at 38.1 now.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

chibi said:


> Revived my 9900KS build and this is the best I can manage with the voltages.
> 
> 4200, c16, 1T - 1,400% HCI stable
> 
> View attachment 2525451


With Memtweakit and set PPD/TRP was it possible to get the Latency lower, but it´s crap that the option not in Bios.
In Latency was the CFL🙌, 24/7 with TXP/PPD arround 33,5ns.


----------



## Betroz

bscool said:


> @Imprezzion I noticed that also. I thought maybe I had some bloat running in the back ground on a Win 11 upgrade I did. So clean installed Win 10 and dropped around 1-1.5ns in latency.


Maybe the new CPU scheduler in Win11 is the reason for the added latency, or some debugging program running in the background.


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> Maybe the new CPU scheduler in Win11 is the reason for the added latency, or some debugging program running in the background.


This is as tight and fast as it'll go on Windows 11. 

PPD=0 (fully disabled in BIOS), Virtualization + VT-D off.
ODT 80-40-40
Auto skews
1.60v DRAM
1.25v IO
1.35v SA
CPU is done with XTU so 8 cores run 5.3 and the 2 "prime" cores run 5.4 @ 1.411v with OCTVB enabled at 74c -1 bin for all. 
4800 cache is all she'll ever do unfortunately. 4900 won't even stay running for 5 minutes without throwing a whole load of WHEA errors at any voltage. 

This is 3 hours TM5 Anta777 Extreme and over night HCI 30GB stable btw. Max DIMM temps 43.8c.


----------



## techenth




----------



## Gen.

Imprezzion said:


> This is as tight and fast as it'll go on Windows 11.
> 
> PPD=0 (fully disabled in BIOS), Virtualization + VT-D off.
> ODT 80-40-40
> Auto skews
> 1.60v DRAM
> 1.25v IO
> 1.35v SA
> CPU is done with XTU so 8 cores run 5.3 and the 2 "prime" cores run 5.4 @ 1.411v with OCTVB enabled at 74c -1 bin for all.
> 4800 cache is all she'll ever do unfortunately. 4900 won't even stay running for 5 minutes without throwing a whole load of WHEA errors at any voltage.
> 
> This is 3 hours TM5 Anta777 Extreme and over night HCI 30GB stable btw. Max DIMM temps 43.8c.
> 
> View attachment 2525496


I have better records with 4000 and voltage 1.43-1.44


----------



## ViTosS

techenth said:


> View attachment 2525505


Nice, is that stable? What's DRAM voltage?


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> I have better records with 4000 and voltage 1.43-1.44


Wouldn't I lose too much bandwidth performance by dropping as low as 4000?

Can you give me some pointers timing wise where to go for 4000? Keep in mind, these are low bin 3600C16 chips and are not as capable as some other high-end pre-binned B-Die like 4800C17's.


----------



## techenth

ViTosS said:


> Nice, is that stable? What's DRAM voltage?


yeah stable enough, haven't run 3 hours of anta77. 30 mins in and I've started dailying it. 1.65V.


----------



## 7empe

This is my 2x16GB 4400C16 with nice timings, but low voltages.










Core factors for stability were RTTs, Slopes and IOLs. Config running for few months, p95 112k, stresstest, kharhu, TM5 usmus/anta stable.


----------



## Gen.

@Imprezzion I would recommend that you try these settings


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> @Imprezzion I would recommend that you try these settings


It did boot at least with your settings! Let's see how stable it is. Thanks a lot!

EDIT: Seems to be stable for the first cycle / hour of the test. I did use my own CPU core clocks and voltages but used everything else you recommended including IO and SA. ODT's are 80-40-40. I have never, ever been able to run 12 tRDWR before at 4400 lol. Your settings are magic!


----------



## musician

Imprezzion said:


> But, what makes that safe all of a sudden. Not a single 14nm arch CPU has ever been generally accepted as "safe" in any voltage, Core, IO or SA, above 1.40v. People question some XMP kits that do 1.45v on 10th gen all the time, what makes 1.5v accepted all of a sudden on 11th gen. Did they change something in the architecture that makes it handle voltage so much better or something?


You "fail" right at the beginning. You are comparing 10th and 11th gen settings. It does not work like that. This is why you underestimate what does cstkl1 post. cstkl1 achievement is actually damn good and very rare. I am learning from every post he does, it´s great inspiration.
Nothing personal man, all good.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> It did boot at least with your settings! Let's see how stable it is. Thanks a lot!
> 
> EDIT: Seems to be stable for the first cycle / hour of the test. I did use my own CPU core clocks and voltages but used everything else you recommended including IO and SA. ODT's are 80-40-40. I have never, ever been able to run 12 tRDWR before at 4400 lol. Your settings are magic!
> 
> View attachment 2525650


really gj, my settings are not much different....but how can u run vccio so low? i need 1.360 to be stable

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

musician said:


> You "fail" right at the beginning. You are comparing 10th and 11th gen settings. It does not work like that. This is why you underestimate what does cstkl1 post. cstkl1 achievement is actually damn good and very rare. I am learning from every post he does, it´s great inspiration.
> Nothing personal man, all good.


That's why I'm asking, did Intel change something in the architecture to allow way higher voltages in 11th gen? I mean, from 6th gen onwards it's never been accepted safe to be above 1.45v in any voltage, core IO and SA. So why 11th all of a sudden can? Hell, if I stick to the calculation falkentyne mentioned several times for core voltage, aka 1520mv VID - (1.1 x IOUT) I shouldn't be going over 1.316v VR VOut on vCore either. I am, by quite a lot, but still. Those calculations exist for a reason. I am just trying to learn why it's accepted in 11th gen. Or God forbid 12th gen when it releases. Of course I wanna push that to the limits, and a fair bit beyond, like I do with everything that comes out, but I'm not just blindly yeeting voltage at everything without understanding why and how it responds and what the limits are.


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> That's why I'm asking, did Intel change something in the architecture to allow way higher voltages in 11th gen? I mean, from 6th gen onwards it's never been accepted safe to be above 1.45v in any voltage, core IO and SA. So why 11th all of a sudden can? Hell, if I stick to the calculation falkentyne mentioned several times for core voltage, aka 1520mv VID - (1.1 x IOUT) I shouldn't be going over 1.316v VR VOut on vCore either. I am, by quite a lot, but still. Those calculations exist for a reason. I am just trying to learn why it's accepted in 11th gen. Or God forbid 12th gen when it releases. Of course I wanna push that to the limits, and a fair bit beyond, like I do with everything that comes out, but I'm not just blindly yeeting voltage at everything without understanding why and how it responds and what the limits are.


Who said above 1.45Sa/Io is unsafe. There is no known safe IO and SA 1.52 is spec was on 10th gen too. Not saying 1.52 SA is safe, just going by spec.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Gigabyte says 1,35V Io is ok for 24/7, like you see in Asus Bios a Set 1,35V Io is the first Red.
Intel specs says only "max. Imc current" for io.


----------



## nikolaus85

PhoenixMDA said:


> Gigabyte says 1,35V Io is ok for 24/7, like you see in Asus Bios a Set 1,35V Io is the first Red.


i am running 1.365 vccio (1.370 from bios) on the z490 unify, should i worry? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> Who said above 1.45Sa/Io is unsafe. There is no known safe IO and SA 1.52 is spec was on 10th gen too. Not saying 1.52 SA is safe, just going by spec.


Max IMC current can be formulated to a max voltage if you know how much current it pulls at a given load and you know the resistance mOhm values of the IMC IO/SA load line. Generally this comes out to about 1.45v actual. 1.52v is before droop and load line losses I'm guessing as that is the case with vCore and I again assume Intel specs for vCore, SA and IO are all based on VID before droop?

I just don't wanna blow stuff up or degrade it into the ground. Wouldn't be the first time I did that as I was never really careful with any hardware and limits... But with how hard and expensive it is to replace stuff now I kinda am.. It's not like blowing up a VRM or two on a 780 Ti and just ordering a new one NBD delivery for less then what a 3060 costs now...


----------



## ViTosS

7empe said:


> This is my 2x16GB 4400C16 with nice timings, but low voltages.
> 
> View attachment 2525631
> 
> 
> Core factors for stability were RTTs, Slopes and IOLs. Config running for few months, p95 112k, stresstest, kharhu, TM5 usmus/anta stable.


Your latency seems a bit high for those timings, see mine

















I wish that setting RTTs combination could make a difference in my voltages, I tried every possible combination at 1.52v (instead of 1.56v) but always give errors...


----------



## bscool

Comparing SR to DR. DR will have higher latency at same timings and clocks. Also higher cache = lower latency.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

nikolaus85 said:


> i am running 1.365 vccio (1.370 from bios) on the z490 unify, should i worry?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


At my opinion is up to 1,4V safe, that´s the range i work, some people drive up to 1,44V io daily without problem´s.
You must look how much your chip really need, in my case bring all over 1,37V Bios nothing it goes more unstable 1,32-1,36V is the best range for my chip.

With a other 10900k with bad IMC i have need up to 1,42-1,44V IO HWinfo to get 4500 stable, is that voltage safe for many year´s i don´t know it.


----------



## Gen.

@ViTosS Then I can also say that your settings are not perfect  Everyone knows how they can))


----------



## Gen.

@Imprezzion 
The main thing is that your processor is stable and memory errors do not arise from it.
Set tRDWR_dd = 1, tREFI = 65024.
Also expose the entire RTL block to auto. I will help you with setting it up.
ODT I selected for MSI as a rule 80-0-48-80-0-48.
What is tCCD / tCCD_L / tCCD_L_MR?
Looks good so far.
For 4400 17-17 at 10600KF, I got the following results:


----------



## Gen.

For evaluation. A big test before starting fiddling with RTL + CPU IO / CPU SA tuning. At the very end I will try 1.430-1.435 (1.432 HWiNFO). I'll try to wipe the modules with alcohol, swap places, maybe something else to poke around.
P.S. I did not find the minimum tRFC, at this voltage it should be ~ 280-296, no more, but I see no point in this experiment.
P.S.S. It seems that tRDRD_sg = 7 / tWRWR_sg = 7 will be better in memory bandwidth. You also need to understand why. 6s and 7s, respectively, are equally stable.


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> @ViTosS Then I can also say that your settings are not perfect  Everyone knows how they can))


Apex is not even fair 

I didn't know DR has latency increase compared to SR, but his bandwidth is higher than mine...


----------



## ViTosS

Maybe I can try 4600C16-17-17-37 but I doubt it will be doable without watercooling the sticks (because the jump from 4200CL16 to 4400CL16 costed me a lot, had to bump vDRAM from 1.48 to 1.56, I can't imagine how much I would have to increase to reach 4600CL16, I think that is impossible with air cooling and this board, maybe with an Apex... I can get like 0.3ns lower latency if I OC the CPU to 5.2Ghz and keep 4.9Ghz cache, but my cooling not able to do that, I'm considering in delid direct die soon.


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> @Imprezzion
> The main thing is that your processor is stable and memory errors do not arise from it.
> Set tRDWR_dd = 1, tREFI = 65024.
> Also expose the entire RTL block to auto. I will help you with setting it up.
> ODT I selected for MSI as a rule 80-0-48-80-0-48.
> What is tCCD / tCCD_L / tCCD_L_MR?
> Looks good so far.
> For 4400 17-17 at 10600KF, I got the following results:


are they 2x16? What benefits you get setting ODT like that? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> @Imprezzion
> The main thing is that your processor is stable and memory errors do not arise from it.
> Set tRDWR_dd = 1, tREFI = 65024.
> Also expose the entire RTL block to auto. I will help you with setting it up.
> ODT I selected for MSI as a rule 80-0-48-80-0-48.
> What is tCCD / tCCD_L / tCCD_L_MR?
> Looks good so far.
> For 4400 17-17 at 10600KF, I got the following results:


TCCD 4 tCCDL and MR 8.
I had RTL IO on fixed mode btw at 67/67/1/1 initials. Auto was 72/72/11/11 which is. Quite high lol. So I couldn't resist dropping them a little.

I get basically the same bandwidth but my latency is way way higher. More like 38.5ns on full Windows boot and if I turn off all programs and services and such 36.9ns.

ODT I had 80-40-40 as I always had to use that for 4200 and 4400 in the past but maybe 80-0-48 works better. I have to test that.

I did try to push 16-17-17 for a sec but even at 1.56v it errored after ~20 minutes.

I'll do the tweaks you said.

I will also drop CPU down to 5.1 @ 1.30v and cache to 45 during testing just to eliminate the chance of errors


----------



## Gen.

@Imprezzion
tCCD=4
tCCD_L=7
tCCD_L_MR=7
Make the whole RTL block in auto and send a screenshot.
Before the tCL timing there is a DRAM Training Configuration line. Set the following parameters:
Round Trip Latency = Enabled;
Turn Arround Timing configuration = Disabled;
Rank Margin Tool = Enabled;
Memory Test = Disabled.

@nikolaus85
I did not understand your question. For DR, a manual and correct ODT gives system stability: a decrease in voltage for memory is possible, a 100% decrease in CPU IO / SA voltages, the likelihood of a higher RING. Slopes / CLK Period also provides significant voltage reductions and better system stability.

My result is on clean Windows 10 August 2021. But the system is like a factory. Optimization has not been done yet.


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> @Imprezzion
> tCCD=4
> tCCD_L=7
> tCCD_L_MR=7
> Make the whole RTL block in auto and send a screenshot.
> Before the tCL timing there is a DRAM Training Configuration line. Set the following parameters:
> Round Trip Latency = Enabled;
> Turn Arround Timing configuration = Disabled;
> Rank Margin Tool = Enabled;
> Memory Test = Disabled.
> 
> @nikolaus85
> I did not understand your question. For DR, a manual and correct ODT gives system stability: a decrease in voltage for memory is possible, a 100% decrease in CPU IO / SA voltages, the likelihood of a higher RING. Slopes / CLK Period also provides significant voltage reductions and better system stability.
> 
> My result is on clean Windows 10 August 2021. But the system is like a factory. Optimization has not been done yet.


Will do the tCCD stuff. Auto RTL IO does not train properly. It trains 72/72/13/15 which is 2 apart on IOL and it can only be 1 max right?

In the meantime, I managed to brute force 4400 16-17-17 by using your guidelines and using 80-0-48 ODT. It did still require 1.60v DRAM but I'm happy running that. Have done for a long time on 4200C15 and the sticks handle 1.60v just fine. See temps in HWINFO64.

What I did notice, I cannot lower tRAS below 38. 36 gave instant errors and 37 wasn't stable either. I thought it had to be CAS + tRDC +2 to be optimal right? Also, tRFC 296 does not even boot windows. 328 is pretty much the bottom limits.


----------



## nikolaus85

@nikolaus85
I did not understand your question. For DR, a manual and correct ODT gives system stability: a decrease in voltage for memory is possible, a 100% decrease in CPU IO / SA voltages, the likelihood of a higher RING. Slopes / CLK Period also provides significant voltage reductions and better system stability.

My result is on clean Windows 10 August 2021. But the system is like a factory. Optimization has not been done yet.
[/QUOTE]

maybe just in DR? I have SR and tried ODT 80-40-40, but i ended with same voltages as before.


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> @Imprezzion
> tCCD=4
> tCCD_L=7
> tCCD_L_MR=7
> Make the whole RTL block in auto and send a screenshot.
> Before the tCL timing there is a DRAM Training Configuration line. Set the following parameters:
> Round Trip Latency = Enabled;
> Turn Arround Timing configuration = Disabled;
> Rank Margin Tool = Enabled;
> Memory Test = Disabled.
> 
> @nikolaus85
> I did not understand your question. For DR, a manual and correct ODT gives system stability: a decrease in voltage for memory is possible, a 100% decrease in CPU IO / SA voltages, the likelihood of a higher RING. Slopes / CLK Period also provides significant voltage reductions and better system stability.
> 
> My result is on clean Windows 10 August 2021. But the system is like a factory. Optimization has not been done yet.


I cannot get latency anywhere near that lol. 
4400C16 is much better, but still quite high compared to yours. This is with a full install of Windows 11 Dev Build with monitoring and discord and whatever active. And this is with poor RTL IO optimization.


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> @Imprezzion
> tCCD=4
> tCCD_L=7
> tCCD_L_MR=7
> Make the whole RTL block in auto and send a screenshot.
> Before the tCL timing there is a DRAM Training Configuration line. Set the following parameters:
> *Round Trip Latency = Enabled;
> Turn Arround Timing configuration = Disabled;
> Rank Margin Tool = Enabled;
> Memory Test = Disabled.*
> 
> @nikolaus85
> I did not understand your question. For DR, a manual and correct ODT gives system stability: a decrease in voltage for memory is possible, a 100% decrease in CPU IO / SA voltages, the likelihood of a higher RING. Slopes / CLK Period also provides significant voltage reductions and better system stability.
> 
> My result is on clean Windows 10 August 2021. But the system is like a factory. Optimization has not been done yet.


What does these settings help? Is it related to lower voltage or possibility of higher clocks that wasn't before? Or just training related for RTL/IOLs? Never messed with those on mine, I see you giving him instructions and he has an MSI board like I do so I'm curious


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> What does these settings help? Is it related to lower voltage or possibility of higher clocks that wasn't before? Or just training related for RTL/IOLs? Never messed with those on mine, I see you giving him instructions and he has an MSI board like I do so I'm curious


Well, I can tell ya one thing, it works. It seems to help a LOT to stabilize secondaries and tertiaries way tighter then I ever could and at a lower voltage. I have never ever been able to run 4400C17 with tRDWR's on 12 and at a lower voltage then I needed before with 16's. And also, C16 lol. Although I have to admit, it did error after I posted the 1h screenshot. 1 single error at 1h48m.

@Gen. Is there anything in the 4400C17 setup I can change still? I tried 11's for tRDWR's, not working. I also tried 296 tRFC, doesn't work, tRAS can't go lower either. But maybe tWR or tCWL or tRTP or something might? Or 4 on tRRD_L or something? I have plenty of room voltage wise so if I need more volts for a change like that I can. Temperature of the RAM is fine up to 1.68v.


----------



## Betroz

Gen. said:


> Round Trip Latency = Enabled;


Somebody in here recommended me to set that to Disabled, and I have it disabled with my profiles. When should it be enabled or disabled and why?


----------



## YaqY

Betroz said:


> Somebody in here recommended me to set that to Disabled, and I have it disabled with my profiles. When should it be enabled or disabled and why?


It's an algorithm to train tighter rtls/iols. I always keep it enabled to train tight rtls/iols and when they train properly I lock them in within the RTL/IOL section.


----------



## Imprezzion

Typical.. it passes TM5 and HCI just fine but in the meanwhile I can't even watch YouTube in chrome as the tabs just randomly crash lol.. memory is a weird thing sometimes to test stability on.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> Typical.. it passes TM5 and HCI just fine but in the meanwhile I can't even watch YouTube in chrome as the tabs just randomly crash lol.. memory is a weird thing sometimes to test stability on.


Higher memspeed stresses the IMC more, so maybe you just need more vcore.


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> Typical.. it passes TM5 and HCI just fine but in the meanwhile I can't even watch YouTube in chrome as the tabs just randomly crash lol.. memory is a weird thing sometimes to test stability on.


bump up CPU voltage or drop cache 100mhz? I can pass GSAT at 4.8 cache but have the same issue (with Opera) at anything above 4.7.


----------



## Imprezzion

@Gen. So far with the training options set like you said it does not feel like training RTL/IO properly on Auto lol.
This is just a frequency / timing profile I made with 4200 based on your 4400 profile on the Apex. I can't do that on 4400 but this does boot fine on 4200 with 15-17-17-37 primary.
Problem is, without me manually Fixed Mode fixing the RTL/IO it doesn't work at all..


----------



## Gen.

Imprezzion said:


> Auto RTL IO does not train properly. It trains 72/72/13/15 which is 2 apart on IOL and it can only be 1 max right?


Everything is correct. When you enable Round Trip Latency = Enabled, you must wait for the board to train itself tIOL 7-7-7-7 / 8-8-8-8 / 7-7-8-8. This should be done with Memory Fast Boot = Disabled and ODT 80-0-48-80-0-48



Imprezzion said:


> What I did notice, I cannot lower tRAS below 38. 36 gave instant errors and 37 wasn't stable either. I thought it had to be CAS + tRDC +2 to be optimal right? Also, tRFC 296 does not even boot windows. 328 is pretty much the bottom limits.


tRAS and tRFC are not important. Keep tRAS at tCL + tRCD + 4 - this will be stable 99% of the time and will not degrade performance in any way. tRFC 328 at 4600 and even 4000 is normal. Finding the minimum is not so important if tRFC = 160ns or lower.
Please set the 4 parameters in the correct positions above (training algorithms) if you really want me to help you make your memory work at a great level 24/7. Also set the following in the RTL block: Dynamic Mode-21-21-69-69-auto-auto-auto-auto-4-4-auto-auto-auto-auto for tCL17



nikolaus85 said:


> maybe just in DR? I have SR and tried ODT 80-40-40, but i ended with same voltages as before.


This does not always help. When everything is well tuned, the voltage will not be lower. For SR I usually used WR80, Nom34, Park0



Imprezzion said:


> I cannot get latency anywhere near that lol.


Do not worry. After fully customizing, you will be amazed at the results.



ViTosS said:


> What does these settings help? Is it related to lower voltage or possibility of higher clocks that wasn't before? Or just training related for RTL/IOLs? Never messed with those on mine, I see you giving him instructions and he has an MSI board like I do so I'm curious


tCCD_L=7 is a very important parameter for system stability.
Remember tCCD (S) = tRDRD_dg = tWRWR_dg = 4 and tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 6 or 7.
For ASUS boards, I recommend Round Trip Latency = Disabled, so that there are no problems with training and post code "55", since in ASUS you can set RTL / IOL manually, and for MSI boards I recommend Round Trip Latency = Enabled, since manual the input of values is not applied by the board and sets a high IOL. It is necessary to train memory at boot to get tIOL <= 8, then set Memory Fast Boot = No training. As a rule, this is done at the very end after full memory stability and all tests.



Imprezzion said:


> Is there anything in the 4400C17 setup I can change still? I tried 11's for tRDWR's, not working. I also tried 296 tRFC, doesn't work, tRAS can't go lower either. But maybe tWR or tCWL or tRTP or something might? Or 4 on tRRD_L or something? I have plenty of room voltage wise so if I need more volts for a change like that I can. Temperature of the RAM is fine up to 1.68v.


Please duplicate the results where you are stable from 4400 17-17. tRRD (L) = 4 will only make it worse. I advise you to test tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 6. But first, check the memory bandwidth in AIDA64. If the readings do not get worse at parameter 6, test 3 cycles of Extreme1.


*Guys, a lot of questions were received while I was at work. If I haven't answered any, please duplicate. I use a translator and I am Russian. I hope we understand each other.*


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> Everything is correct. When you enable Round Trip Latency = Enabled, you must wait for the board to train itself tIOL 7-7-7-7 / 8-8-8-8 / 7-7-8-8. This should be done with Memory Fast Boot = Disabled and ODT 80-0-48-80-0-48
> 
> 
> tRAS and tRFC are not important. Keep tRAS at tCL + tRCD + 4 - this will be stable 99% of the time and will not degrade performance in any way. tRFC 328 at 4600 and even 4000 is normal. Finding the minimum is not so important if tRFC = 160ns or lower.
> Please set the 4 parameters in the correct positions above (training algorithms) if you really want me to help you make your memory work at a great level 24/7. Also set the following in the RTL block: Dynamic Mode-21-21-69-69-auto-auto-auto-auto-4-4-auto-auto-auto-auto for tCL17
> 
> 
> This does not always help. When everything is well tuned, the voltage will not be lower. For SR I usually used WR80, Nom34, Park0
> 
> 
> Do not worry. After fully customizing, you will be amazed at the results.
> 
> 
> tCCD_L=7 is a very important parameter for system stability.
> Remember tCCD (S) = tRDRD_dg = tWRWR_dg = 4 and tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 6 or 7.
> For ASUS boards, I recommend Round Trip Latency = Disabled, so that there are no problems with training and post code "55", since in ASUS you can set RTL / IOL manually, and for MSI boards I recommend Round Trip Latency = Enabled, since manual the input of values is not applied by the board and sets a high IOL. It is necessary to train memory at boot to get tIOL
> 
> Please duplicate the results where you are stable from 4400 17-17. tRRD (L) = 4 will only make it worse. I advise you to test tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 6. But first, check the memory bandwidth in AIDA64. If the readings do not get worse at parameter 6, test 3 cycles of Extreme1.
> 
> 
> *Guys, a lot of questions were received while I was at work. If I haven't answered any, please duplicate. I use a translator and I am Russian. I hope we understand each other.*


hello, thank you for your advices. I am on SR but wanted to try your settings. With ODT 80 0 48, i was able to drop sa and io from 1.380 and 1.370 to 1.360 and 1.330. Not bad at all. The only thing, i had to set rank margin tool to auto because on enabled increased latency from 34.8 to about 37. Is this setting just for DR? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Gen.

The rank margin tool is needed for DR.
For SR, I usually just turned it off.
My selection for ODT (ASUS / MSI)
ODT DR 80-48-0 / 80-48-40 / 80-40-40 / 80-48-34 (WR-Park-Nom)
ODT SR 80-0-34 / 80-0-40 / 80-48-0 / 80-0-0 (WR-Park-Nom)
It also happens that one module requires one ODT, and the other requires another ODT. This, too, cannot be ruled out.


----------



## Damie

How do I get over 3200MHz with 1T command rate + Gear 1 mode?
2x 16GB Samsung B (XMP is 14-15-15-32 1.45V)


----------



## bscool

Damie said:


> How do I get over 3200MHz with 1T command rate + Gear 1 mode?
> 2x 16GB Samsung B (XMP is 14-15-15-32 1.45V)
> 
> View attachment 2525805


1t gear 1 with DR on 11th gen is difficult to get stable. Probably better to run 2t and something like 3733c14 to 3866c14-15-15. 3733c14 with tight subs should get latency in the 38ns range and improve r/w/c to 60,000+

An older bios might be better when I tried 1t on the bios 1102 on z590 Apex/11900k 3600 DR 1t wouldn't boot. I think it worked on older bios but it might have been my other 11900k that has a better IMC. Edit just tried again and 1t 3600c14 boots on bios 1102 DR.

More 11th gen info in this thread if you haven't looked. Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


----------



## Gen.

@Damie Try running N: 1, N to ratio = 1, not 1N.


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> Everything is correct. When you enable Round Trip Latency = Enabled, you must wait for the board to train itself tIOL 7-7-7-7 / 8-8-8-8 / 7-7-8-8. This should be done with Memory Fast Boot = Disabled and ODT 80-0-48-80-0-48
> 
> 
> tRAS and tRFC are not important. Keep tRAS at tCL + tRCD + 4 - this will be stable 99% of the time and will not degrade performance in any way. tRFC 328 at 4600 and even 4000 is normal. Finding the minimum is not so important if tRFC = 160ns or lower.
> Please set the 4 parameters in the correct positions above (training algorithms) if you really want me to help you make your memory work at a great level 24/7. Also set the following in the RTL block: Dynamic Mode-21-21-69-69-auto-auto-auto-auto-4-4-auto-auto-auto-auto for tCL17
> 
> 
> This does not always help. When everything is well tuned, the voltage will not be lower. For SR I usually used WR80, Nom34, Park0
> 
> 
> Do not worry. After fully customizing, you will be amazed at the results.
> 
> 
> tCCD_L=7 is a very important parameter for system stability.
> Remember tCCD (S) = tRDRD_dg = tWRWR_dg = 4 and tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 6 or 7.
> For ASUS boards, I recommend Round Trip Latency = Disabled, so that there are no problems with training and post code "55", since in ASUS you can set RTL / IOL manually, and for MSI boards I recommend Round Trip Latency = Enabled, since manual the input of values is not applied by the board and sets a high IOL. It is necessary to train memory at boot to get tIOL <= 8, then set Memory Fast Boot = No training. As a rule, this is done at the very end after full memory stability and all tests.
> 
> 
> Please duplicate the results where you are stable from 4400 17-17. tRRD (L) = 4 will only make it worse. I advise you to test tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 6. But first, check the memory bandwidth in AIDA64. If the readings do not get worse at parameter 6, test 3 cycles of Extreme1.
> 
> 
> *Guys, a lot of questions were received while I was at work. If I haven't answered any, please duplicate. I use a translator and I am Russian. I hope we understand each other.*


I set everything like you said. It trained a whole bunch of weird RTL IO values at first but it settled in now and boots the same two every time but it isn't low enough. It trains 70/70/70/70/13/13/11/11 or 67/67/64/64/7/7/8/8. The first one is good training but too high, the second one is good IOL but bad RTL being 3 apart.

I can force it to train properly but then I have to change initial values or use fixed mode.

EDIT: I kept trying and it worked. It trained 64/64/66/66/7/7/7/7. I'm setting no training now.


----------



## Gen.

It can not be so. I would like to see a photo from bios


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> The rank margin tool is needed for DR.
> For SR, I usually just turned it off.
> My selection for ODT (ASUS / MSI)
> ODT DR 80-48-0 / 80-48-40 / 80-40-40 / 80-48-34 (WR-Park-Nom)
> ODT SR 80-0-34 / 80-0-40 / 80-48-0 / 80-0-0 (WR-Park-Nom)
> It also happens that one module requires one ODT, and the other requires another ODT. This, too, cannot be ruled out.


sorry, i am total noob and i know it. I setted wr nom park 80 0 48. It seems it worked. I also setted tccd_l and mr 6. Bandwidth seems a bit better in copy and average latency improved a bit too. What could i still improve?









Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Damie

bscool said:


> 1t gear 1 with DR on 11th gen is difficult to get stable. Probably better to run 2t and something like 3733c14 to 3866c14-15-15. 3733c14 with tight subs should get latency in the 38ns range and improve r/w/c to 60,000+
> 
> An older bios might be better when I tried 1t on the bios 1102 on z590 Apex/11900k 3600 DR 1t wouldn't boot. I think it worked on older bios but it might have been my other 11900k that has a better IMC. Edit just tried again and 1t 3600c14 boots on bios 1102 DR.
> 
> More 11th gen info in this thread if you haven't looked. Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


For some reason my 3733MHz 2T gear 1 latency is only 44ns? Any way to get below 40ns ?











Gen.: I tried N: 1, N to ratio = 1, doesn't boot even at 3200MHz.


----------



## bscool

Damie said:


> For some reason my 3733MHz 2T gear 1 latency is only 44ns? Any way to get below 40ns ?
> 
> Gen.: I tried N: 1, N to ratio = 1, doesn't boot even at 3200MHz.


Enable round trip latency under memory algorithms. A lot of your timings could be tightened up but RTL will drop it some. Also raising cache to 4500-4600 if stable will lower it.


----------



## Gen.

@Demie 
Your timings and training are just awful ...


----------



## Gen.

nikolaus85 said:


> sorry, i am total noob and i know it. I setted wr nom park 80 0 48. It seems it worked. I also setted tccd_l and mr 6. Bandwidth seems a bit better in copy and average latency improved a bit too. What could i still improve?


----------



## Damie

bscool said:


> Enable round trip latency under memory algorithms. A lot of your timings could be tightened up but RTL will drop it some. Also raising cache to 4500-4600 if stable will lower it.


Thank you, any other tips ? Getting near 40ns:


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> It can not be so. I would like to see a photo from bios


I have it now.









Latency is WAY better already. Still not 35.xx but Windows 11 seems to be 1-1.5ns higher anyway so not a big deal. Bandwidth is great.
This is TCCD 4 tCCD_L 6 and the others linked to it 6 as well.

I still have to stability test this but the training and AIDA results are very good. Starting TM5 now.
If something is unstable, does simply adding voltage help in that situation or should I change ODT to 80-40-40 again in stead of 80-0-48 or something else?
Temperatures should be fine, RAM sticks never go over 43c and have a fan on them.


----------



## bscool

Damie said:


> Thank you, any other tips ? Getting near 40ns:











*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Hello one question I'm search my stability for my ddr4 4000 cl 16 t1... It's impossible for my low vccio and vccsa actually is in 1,15v an 1,40 v ram where is the safe voltage for vccio and vccsa for 24/7 thanks!!




www.overclock.net













MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





Pretty much all your sub timings could be lowered.


----------



## ViTosS

nikolaus85 said:


> hello, thank you for your advices. I am on SR but wanted to try your settings. With ODT 80 0 48, i was able to drop sa and io from 1.380 and 1.370 to 1.360 and 1.330. Not bad at all. The only thing, i had to set rank margin tool to auto because on enabled increased latency from 34.8 to about 37. Is this setting just for DR?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Nice, mine sets on AUTO WR-PARK-NOM 80-240-0, you changed in this order or changed WR-NOM-PARK? I may try that, my IO and SA are 1.25 and 1.30 atm


----------



## ViTosS

If he changes tWRRD_sg to 28 wouldn't that cause the tWTR_L to drop to 4 since it is at 31 and at 7? I think these two pairs of timings work like that linked, I have never set tWTR_L and S in my MSI BIOS, I always leave them at AUTO and change them via tWRRD_sg and dg.

Edit.: I quoted Gen but for some reason is not showing


----------



## ViTosS

Double post, sorry


----------



## nikolaus85

why should trrd_l 6 perform better than 4? More bandwidth? I setted all the timings as you suggested, but windows crashed......and oc failed too when i rebooted....now i trying setting them one by one to understand where is the problem (it should be tcwl on 16...).


----------



## ViTosS

nikolaus85 said:


> sorry, i am total noob and i know it. I setted wr nom park 80 0 48. It seems it worked. I also setted tccd_l and mr 6. Bandwidth seems a bit better in copy and average latency improved a bit too. What could i still improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Btw what is your DRAM voltage for these timings? Your OC seems pretty much the same of mine, but I need 1.56v


----------



## nikolaus85

ViTosS said:


> Nice, mine sets on AUTO WR-PARK-NOM 80-240-0, you changed in this order or changed WR-NOM-PARK? I may try that, my IO and SA are 1.25 and 1.30 atm


yes exactly the order is WR-NOM-PARK, like in bios.


----------



## nikolaus85

ViTosS said:


> Btw what is your DRAM voltage for these timings? Your OC seems pretty much the same of mine, but I need 1.56v
> View attachment 2525851


i running 1.560 too on the dram, and i was perfectly stable. I also knew that twrrd controls twtr......maybe that was the reason of the crash.


----------



## ViTosS

Gen. said:


> tCCD_L=7 is a very important parameter for system stability.
> Remember tCCD (S) = tRDRD_dg = tWRWR_dg = 4 and tCCD_L = tCCD_L_MR = tRDRD_sg = tWRWR_sg = 6 or 7.
> For ASUS boards, I recommend Round Trip Latency = Disabled, so that there are no problems with training and post code "55", since in ASUS you can set RTL / IOL manually, and for MSI boards I recommend Round Trip Latency = Enabled, since manual the input of values is not applied by the board and sets a high IOL. It is necessary to train memory at boot to get tIOL <= 8, then set Memory Fast Boot = No training. As a rule, this is done at the very end after full memory stability and all tests.


My tCCD (S) on AUTO was correct, 4 just like tRDRD and tWRWR_dg, but tCCD (L) and tCCD_L_MR was at 8 on AUTO, so I changed to 7, also will try to lower my voltages using your ODT parameters, thanks!


----------



## Imprezzion

@Gen. You sir, are a hero.

Full almost 3 hour 3 cycle test done with above timings.
Did exactly like you said with the 4 settings for training. Let it reboot until it trained 7/7/7/7 with proper RTL, locked it with No Training in Memory Fast Boot.
Also did the tCCD and tCCD_L together with the tWRWR_sg and the tRDRD_sg at 6.
I also did all the other timings like you said for 4400 17-17-17-38-328-2T.
Voltages are also exactly the same as you said, 1.50v DRAM, 1.32v IO and 1.36v SA.
ODT's also what you said, 80-0-48 on both DIMM's.
Notice that this was also done with 5.3Ghz all-core with 4800 cache proving both the core and cache ratio's are perfectly stable at the given voltages and temperatures for both CPU and RAM are very low. Even with relatively low fan speeds on the radiators. A generously oversized loop with regards to radiator size and thickness and a direct-die liquid metal CPU mount does wonders along with a 1000RPM 120mm high CFM fan blowing on the RAM.

You have no idea how happy I am with this. This is way way faster and tighter then I have ever reached on this RAM set when doing it myself.

I really hope this can help you as well @ViTosS in getting a better more stable OC.










These changes also boosted my Copy speeds by a huge amount. Almost matching the read write now. Latency is still a bit high but I blame Windows 11 for that and not being able to run CAS 16.










K so, what is possibly the next step after saving this profile in my BIOS, exporting a backup to a USB and guarding it with my life? 
Maybe a higher frequency? What should I change to try for example 4600C17? If you still wanna help me even more that is. You have done so much already haha.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> @Gen. You sir, are a hero.
> 
> Full almost 3 hour 3 cycle test done with above timings.
> Did exactly like you said with the 4 settings for training. Let it reboot until it trained 7/7/7/7 with proper RTL, locked it with No Training in Memory Fast Boot.
> Also did the tCCD and tCCD_L together with the tWRWR_sg and the tRDRD_sg at 6.
> I also did all the other timings like you said for 4400 17-17-17-38-328-2T.
> Voltages are also exactly the same as you said, 1.50v DRAM, 1.32v IO and 1.36v SA.
> ODT's also what you said, 80-0-48 on both DIMM's.
> Notice that this was also done with 5.3Ghz all-core with 4800 cache proving both the core and cache ratio's are perfectly stable at the given voltages and temperatures for both CPU and RAM are very low. Even with relatively low fan speeds on the radiators. A generously oversized loop with regards to radiator size and thickness and a direct-die liquid metal CPU mount does wonders along with a 1000RPM 120mm high CFM fan blowing on the RAM.
> 
> You have no idea how happy I am with this. This is way way faster and tighter then I have ever reached on this RAM set when doing it myself.
> 
> I really hope this can help you as well @ViTosS in getting a better more stable OC.
> 
> View attachment 2525887
> 
> 
> These changes also boosted my Copy speeds by a huge amount. Almost matching the read write now. Latency is still a bit high but I blame Windows 11 for that and not being able to run CAS 16.
> 
> View attachment 2525890
> 
> 
> K so, what is possibly the next step after saving this profile in my BIOS, exporting a backup to a USB and guarding it with my life?
> Maybe a higher frequency? What should I change to try for example 4600C17? If you still wanna help me even more that is. You have done so much already haha.


Nice! The ODTs and tCCD unforunately didn't work in reducing vDRAM for me, still needs 1.56v, I didn't test IO/SA because they are already on pretty safe level for 24/7. I'm on 4400CL16-17-17-37 btw, I really wish I could try the same timings with 4600Mhz but since I'm on air cooling I can't do that... Unless I get 55c stable with 4600Mhz just like I have now with 4400Mhz...


----------



## PhoenixMDA

ViTosS said:


> Nice! The ODTs and tCCD unforunately didn't work in reducing vDRAM for me, still needs 1.56v, I didn't test IO/SA because they are already on pretty safe level for 24/7. I'm on 4400CL16-17-17-37 btw, I really wish I could try the same timings with 4600Mhz but since I'm on air cooling I can't do that... Unless I get 55c stable with 4600Mhz just like I have now with 4400Mhz...


If you need 1,56V for 4400CL16-17 under activ Air Cooling forget 4600CL16-17 with your Sticks.Your Bin is for that not good enough to do it with 1,6V under water and stable high frequency ram with 4600Mhz and more is rare.


----------



## nikolaus85

that what i got tuning some other timings. Tcwl and twrrd_sg dont go any lower. I setted tccd_l to 6, trrd_l to 6, trdrd_sg to 6 and trdwr 10 (that boosted my copy). Latency seems the same....i dont think it get worst. What u guys think? Can i check stability with anta extreme or i should tweak something else?
















Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Betroz

nikolaus85 said:


> that what i got tuning some other timings. Tcwl and twrrd_sg dont go any lower. I setted tccd_l to 6, trrd_l to 6, trdrd_sg to 6 and trdwr 10 (that boosted my copy). Latency seems the same....i dont think it get worst. What u guys think? Can i check stability with anta extreme or i should tweak something else?


It would be easier for us if you took screenshots with Windows Snipping Tool instead of using your phone camera


----------



## nikolaus85

Betroz said:


> It would be easier for us if you took screenshots with Windows Snipping Tool instead of using your phone camera


yeah sorry, you are right. These my result, you guys know aida is not consistent, latency hitted 34.7 many times when i tested alone, and copy was a bit higher. I still don't know if to set trrd_l to 4 or 6.

@Gen.


----------



## Astral85

Happy with my results so far with the help from Gen.


----------



## Imprezzion

Astral85 said:


> Happy with my results so far with the help from Gen.
> 
> View attachment 2525950
> View attachment 2525951
> View attachment 2525952


Neither AIDA nor ATC like the Z590 memory frequency readouts I see lol. Still, impressive on 4 DIMM's tho. Would you say Z590 is better on 4 DIMM's then Z490 maybe?

My mate has a Z490 Unify with 4 8GB DIMM's but we have never been able to push past 4133. Board / IMC doesn't like that at all.


----------



## Astral85

Imprezzion said:


> Neither AIDA nor ATC like the Z590 memory frequency readouts I see lol. Still, impressive on 4 DIMM's tho. Would you say Z590 is better on 4 DIMM's then Z490 maybe?
> 
> My mate has a Z490 Unify with 4 8GB DIMM's but we have never been able to push past 4133. Board / IMC doesn't like that at all.


I'm having trouble with HWiNFO reading the 10900K in Windows 11 with Core Isolation enabled so the reading in ATC may be related. I'm talking to ASRock about it. Note that is a BETA version of ATC they gave me.

I don't know if Z590 is better with 4 DIMMS. I have a buddy with Z490 Formula, 10900K and a Corsair Dominator RGB 4x8 kit (like mine) except his is a 3600Mhz kit. Mines 3466. He can run 4000Mhz. I've had difficulty getting my kit over 3866. I guess 4 DIMMS are harder on any board... Buddy seems to think IMC is the limiting factor.


----------



## 7empe

Hey Guys,

It seems that I finally stabilized my G.SKILL Trident Z RGB dual rank 2x16 GB kit (XMP: 4000-16-16-39) to run 4500-16-17-36 with the following timings:










which gives me the following throughput:










Voltages:










I've been looking for stability for this config for a long time. I knew it can be stable, because it happens once, after a cold boot that I managed to complete many hours of TM5 1usmus_v3, HCI MemTest Pro and finally p95 112k/112k FFT in-place without AVX, but after a restart I start to get errors in TM5 during first or second cycle. These errors mostly referred to voltage/resistance issues (RTTs, voltage, tRFC), however almost everything in BIOS is fixed, all the timings, ODT RTTs, ODT write duration/read duration/delay and slopes. Fast boot disabled.

Finally, I found that going from my previous, stable profile of 4400-16-17-33, apart from the higher Vdram, VCCIO and VCCSA I had to change:

from

ODT read/write duration = 2
ODT read/write delay = 1
to:

ODT read/write duration = 4
ODT read/write delay = 2
It seems that these variables have direct influence on DIMMs temperature during the same test (avg. 38C with 2/1 -> 39.5C with 4/2) in the same conditions. I think that these values are given in clock cycles - or - translates into clock cycles through some lookup table (which ASUS only knows...) and specifies the signal access time to the memory before it gets terminated at ODT.

Does anyone has similar experience with these variables? Maybe someone also played with them to reach stability?

Cheers!


----------



## Salve1412

7empe said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> It seems that I finally stabilized my G.SKILL Trident Z RGB dual rank 2x16 GB kit (XMP: 4000-16-16-39) to run 4500-16-17-36 with the following timings:
> 
> View attachment 2525964
> 
> 
> which gives me the following throughput:
> 
> View attachment 2525965
> 
> 
> Voltages:
> 
> View attachment 2525967
> 
> 
> I've been looking for stability for this config for a long time. I knew it can be stable, because it happens once, after a cold boot that I managed to complete many hours of TM5 1usmus_v3, HCI MemTest Pro and finally p95 112k/112k FFT in-place without AVX, but after a restart I start to get errors in TM5 during first or second cycle. These errors mostly referred to voltage/resistance issues (RTTs, voltage, tRFC), however almost everything in BIOS is fixed, all the timings, ODT RTTs, ODT write duration/read duration/delay and slopes. Fast boot disabled.
> 
> Finally, I found that going from my previous, stable profile of 4400-16-17-33, apart from the higher Vdram, VCCIO and VCCSA I had to change:
> 
> from
> 
> ODT read/write duration = 2
> ODT read/write delay = 1
> to:
> 
> ODT read/write duration = 4
> ODT read/write delay = 2
> It seems that these variables have direct influence on DIMMs temperature during the same test (avg. 38C with 2/1 -> 39.5C with 4/2) in the same conditions. I think that these values are given in clock cycles - or - translates into clock cycles through some lookup table (which ASUS only knows...) and specifies the signal access time to the memory before it gets terminated at ODT.
> 
> Does anyone has similar experience with these variables? Maybe someone also played with them to reach stability?
> 
> Cheers!


Interesting, I'm on a XII Extreme at 4533 16-17-17-35 1.53V but I never played with those two settings, always left them on Auto. RTTs and slopes are manually set, though.

I don't remember, do you use GSAT for testing? And if so, can you preserve perfect stability in successive (I mean across reboots and retrainings) GSAT runs lasting at least 2 hours, while you keep Memory Fast Boot disabled? It is something extremely hard with this board from 4500 on.


----------



## 7empe

Salve1412 said:


> Interesting, I'm on a XII Extreme at 4533 16-17-17-35 1.53V but I never played with those two settings, always left them on Auto. RTTs and slopes are manually set, though.
> 
> I don't remember, do you use GSAT for testing? And if so, can you preserve perfect stability in successive (I mean across reboots and retrainings) GSAT runs lasting at least 2 hours, while you keep Memory Fast Boot disabled? It is something extremely hard with this board from 4500 on.


To find out the issues asap I use TM5 and prime95 112k. If it is stable there, then I run HCI MemTest Pro. Unfortunately I run WSL2 with Ubuntu where I have GSAT. WSL2 requires virtualization enabled in bios that reduces memory throughput significantly and leads to false positive test results.

Unfortunatelly now I know that I am not stable 100% after each restart. Most often 4533-16-17-17-36 is stable after cold boot. Restarts causes post error 55. To avoid it I need to set Maximus Tweak Mode to 1 (from 2) and avoid fixing tRDRD_sg_training, tRDRD_sg_runtime, tRDRD_dg_training, tRDRD_dg_training. These have to be on auto, even with having the same 7 - 4 values after training. Setting them to fixed 7 - 4 gives me always post code 55 no matter how ridiculous VCCSA I would apply.

@Salve1412 can you share your slope settings with me?


----------



## Betroz

What do you guys use for IO and SA voltage for your *24/7 profile*?
I use 1.35v IO and 1.45v SA (set in BIOS), but according to Hwinfo64 these values are rapported as a little higher than that in Hwinfo64 sensors though. I hope my 10900K will survive these voltages for some years...


----------



## 7empe

Betroz said:


> What do you guys use for IO and SA voltage for your *24/7 profile*?
> I use 1.35v IO and 1.45v SA (set in BIOS), but according to Hwinfo64 these values are rapported as a little higher than that in Hwinfo64 sensors though. I hope my 10900K will survive these voltages for some years...


It depends on a memory config. I use 1.33v IO and 1.34v SA for 24/7 stable dual-rank 2x16GB 4500-16-17-17-36-2T.


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> What do you guys use for IO and SA voltage for your *24/7 profile*?
> I use 1.35v IO and 1.45v SA (set in BIOS), but according to Hwinfo64 these values are rapported as a little higher than that in Hwinfo64 sensors though. I hope my 10900K will survive these voltages for some years...


I used to run 1.25v IO 1.35v SA (slightly overshooting in HWINFO64 0.01v) but now with my new profile 1.32v IO 1.36v SA. I have run 24/7 as high as 1.40v IO 1.45v SA tho.


----------



## pipes

Io and sa are affected from voltage? I can find at 49x sa because i am instabile, 48x i am stable at 1.20 vccsa and 1.15 vccio.
CPU sa loadline calibration can't help

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Betroz

7empe said:


> It depends on a memory config. I use 1.33v IO and 1.34v SA for 24/7 stable dual-rank 2x16GB 4500-16-17-17-36-2T.


It also depends on the quality of the IMC inside the CPU. My IMC can't handle 4500 C16, but it can do C18 at that speed.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Betroz said:


> It also depends on the quality of the IMC inside the CPU. My IMC can't handle 4500 C16, but it can do C18 at that speed.


It´s also a big question of timings and voltage´s and so on, that something like unpossible make´s it possible.
Like 2x16GB [email protected] at begin i think it´s not possible to do that.


----------



## ViTosS

PhoenixMDA said:


> It´s also a big question of timings and voltage´s and so on, that something like unpossible make´s it possible.
> Like 2x16GB [email protected] at begin i think it´s not possible to do that.
> View attachment 2526152


I tried just for curiosity if I could have 4600CL17-17-17-37 or 4600CL16-17-17-37, at first I passed 5 minutes of Karhu with 1.580v, IO/SA 1.35 and 1.45v, then I restarted and reduced IO to 1.32v, error in like 5 seconds, then I bump IO back to 1.35v and ran again, guess what, error at 5 seconds, for some reason I got this 5 min stable 2 times without changing anything (just rebooting) and lost without changing anything again (after reboots), I wonder what was wrong or if is it normal...

RTL and IOLs was on AUTO and NO TRAINING marked in BIOS during those reboots.


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> I tried just for curiosity if I could have 4600CL17-17-17-37 or 4600CL16-17-17-37, at first I passed 5 minutes of Karhu with 1.580v, IO/SA 1.35 and 1.45v, then I restarted and reduced IO to 1.32v, error in like 5 seconds, then I bump IO back to 1.35v and ran again, guess what, error at 5 seconds, for some reason I got this 5 min stable 2 times without changing anything (just rebooting) and lost without changing anything again (after reboots), I wonder what was wrong or if is it normal...
> 
> RTL and IOLs was on AUTO and NO TRAINING marked in BIOS during those reboots.


What ODT's? Auto or manual?


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> What ODT's? Auto or manual?


80-0-48
The latency was so nice 34.5ns with 4600CL16-17-17-37 haha


----------



## Betroz

PhoenixMDA said:


> Like 2x16GB [email protected] at begin i think it´s not possible to do that.


With watercooling on the sticks yes  
For us mere mortals on air, we have temps in the mid to high 40's.


----------



## Astral85

Is there some way to make TM5 stop on error in the config?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

ViTosS said:


> I tried just for curiosity if I could have 4600CL17-17-17-37 or 4600CL16-17-17-37, at first I passed 5 minutes of Karhu with 1.580v, IO/SA 1.35 and 1.45v, then I restarted and reduced IO to 1.32v, error in like 5 seconds, then I bump IO back to 1.35v and ran again, guess what, error at 5 seconds, for some reason I got this 5 min stable 2 times without changing anything (just rebooting) and lost without changing anything again (after reboots), I wonder what was wrong or if is it normal...
> 
> RTL and IOLs was on AUTO and NO TRAINING marked in BIOS during those reboots.


If you have such a big difference of stable time if the ram temp the same!!! the transmission between cpu/ram is instable.For 4600CL16-17 most of really good kit´s need over 1,6V with sub´s under water.



Betroz said:


> With watercooling on the sticks yes
> For us mere mortals on air, we have temps in the mid to high 40's.


I mean the setting to get that bootable and also stable, the temp/voltage is a big question of quality of the bin, much Kit´s can´t drive 4500 and more in 100% stable.
That is not only a question of the cooling, it´s a question of the bin and how good you are in find the perfect value´s and how much value´s you are set.
Most of my setting´s are not bootable "out of the box" with setting subs and voltage´s.

So it´s not good to look at setting´s which to much optimated and with selected stick´s, it´s better to look what for timing/sub´s can your kit.
How much voltage you need up to temp x, it´s helpfull to know how much you need with 100mhz lower.Most difficult is to hold the imc in every boot 100% stable,
as example if i drive only the wrong vref 4600CL16-16 is up to 33° stable with the right vref 38° with 1,535V.Slope´s are in both cases the same.
Big impact has vref and voltage´s right sub´s for your own kit and for reproducable stability in border area to set slope´s. 

My 24/7 settings are all over 40° stable so i it´s better 1,55V Bios, 38° is to low as stable border, then it´s over 40°.I test that with stopped fan´s and heater. 
With that Kit it will be also possible to drive 4600CL16-16 under active air cooling

2x16GB [email protected],54V


----------



## spin5000

1. Anyone know what I should do to further improve RAM bandwidth and/or latency further? I'm thinking next steps would be more aggressive tREFI, tRFC, tCKE but what about the other secondary and tertiary timings?

2. Are there timings I can loosen which can help me tighten the primaries? It seems 14-15-15-36 (possibly 14-15-15-35) is the limit at the moment (had slightly decreased performance - especially RAM copy test in OCCT - when trying tighter primaries).

3. Also, what about timings _not_ shown in ASRock Timing Configurator such as those timings that end with "denn" as well as tRC (currently at 52, I believe)?
Hardware:
G.Skill 32GB (16GB x 2) Samsung B-Die dual-rank, XMP = 3600 MHz @ 16-16-16-36 @ 1.35v
11900K
Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Ultra

Voltages:
VCCIO 1.25v
VCCSA 1.30v
DRAM 1.51v

I'll work towards lowering those voltages after I'm finished tuning the ram










P.S. I would have preferred to go as high as possible with the frequency and then adjust timings from there but I can't post/boot at anything above 3600 MHz in gear 1, not even 3733 with 1.35v VCCSA and 1.51v DRAM. The weird thing is I had the same problem with a 10900K and a 9700KF (Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro motherboard). The kit does not want to work above it's standard XMP 3600 MHz no matter how loose I set timings and no matter the voltage and that makes absolutely no sense at all for a RAM kit especially Sammy b-die. What's even more weird is that I had the _exact_ same problem with my previous Sammy b-die kit (same latency & speed 16-16-16-36 but 8GB x2 kit) on 2 different motherboards (MSI Z370, Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro) and two different CPUs (8700K, 9700KF). 2 different G.Skill Samsung b-die kits _in a row_ that will not overclock above their XMP profiles no matter the voltage??? Blows my mind...


----------



## 7empe

What's the highest frequency you can get with CL16? Are you saying that you can't get anywhere beyond 3600 with the default latency?


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> Io and sa are affected from voltage? I can find at 49x sa because i am instabile, 48x i am stable at 1.20 vccsa and 1.15 vccio.
> CPU sa loadline calibration can't help
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sixty9sublime

Got a question for those of you that have experience setting slopes. The Unify seems to have limited options when it comes to setting rising and falling values compared to ASUS boards. You can only set a general value for rising/falling along with an offset that is limited to either "0" or "1".










I did however notice under "Drv Vref Configuration", you can set some type of offset but I'm not sure it has anything to do with rising or falling values... I ran an anta777 run with the values below and saw over 50 errors in just a few minutes. So either they are way off or don't have anything to do with rising/falling values?










Yesterday I spent almost 5 hours finding optimal values for Data,CMD,CTL, and CLK but I can't seem to stay away from errors while only setting 0/1 for the Compensation values. So rising/falling values are definitely off with no real way to adjust.


----------



## empathy

Hi, I'm new to Ram OC and dealing with since a few weeks now. I have read a lot now and need some tips on how to get rid of this error and maybe push the latency below 40ns. 

The cache up to 4500 mhz also pushes the latency down a bit, but the system quickly becomes unstable.

I think this looks quite reasonable for now.


----------



## Gen.

Imprezzion said:


> Maybe a higher frequency? What should I change to try for example 4600C17? If you still wanna help me even more that is. You have done so much already haha.


My congratulations. I would try tRDWR_sg / dg / dr / dd = 11/11/11/1 and Late Command Training Enabled/Disabled for tRDWR=tCL-tCWL+10.
I would advise you to lower the memory voltage - 1.490, 1.480 and so on, and also test IO / SA lower like 1.30 / 1.34, 1.28 / 1.32 in the same LinX 0.9.11



nikolaus85 said:


> that what i got tuning some other timings. Tcwl and twrrd_sg dont go any lower. I setted tccd_l to 6, trrd_l to 6, trdrd_sg to 6 and trdwr 10 (that boosted my copy). Latency seems the same....i dont think it get worst. What u guys think? Can i check stability with anta extreme or i should tweak something else?


tCWL=16!!! tWRPRE=36! tWRRD_sg/dg=28/25, tWTR/tWTR_L=3/6. tRFC=328 and VDRAM=1.55 or lower. tRRD_L=6 on 3600+ MHz>tRRD_L=4

@7empe I also have a bios 2004. I would recommend the CR1. For 4000 I have the following results
43+44DIMM 4000 15-15-32-1T 1.440V AIDA64.jpg
Soon I will try to stabilize 4300CL15 
43+44DIMM 4300 15-16-35-1T 1.550V serj1.jpg

@Phoenix85 All this is the reason for the low memory temperature 

@empathy Try Ring 4400 and higher memory voltage

Thanks for your activity. I hope I answered everyone. It happens that I don’t go for several days because I’m at work and I’m tired, but I don’t forget about you <3.
Guys, if you like my help, you can thank me on my paypal "[email protected]"


----------



## 7empe

Hey!

Here is slightly bumped up 4400C16 to what I presented earlier, and below is 4500C16. Both with tCWL=15 now.

@Gen. I will try 1T on Extreme, but AFAIR 4000C15-1T was max I could do on that board, IMC and with these sticks (see signature for details).


----------



## PhoenixMDA

sixty9sublime said:


> I did however notice under "Drv Vref Configuration", you can set some type of offset but I'm not sure it has anything to do with rising or falling values... I ran an anta777 run with the values below and saw over 50 errors in just a few minutes. So either they are way off or don't have anything to do with rising/falling values?


I suspect that is a correction of the signal power from the out driver for the slope´s seperat, to the traces voltage between CPU Memory.


----------



## nikolaus85

PhoenixMDA said:


> I suspect that is a correction of the signal power from the out driver for the slope´s seperat, to the traces voltage between CPU Memory.


would that allow to lower voltages? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## PhoenixMDA

nikolaus85 said:


> would that allow to lower voltages?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


The important thing is more the reproducible stability in border area, but yes you can spare io/sa 0-20mv and perhaps a little bit vdimm.
On Auto it´s better to give a little bit more voltage that he set the value´s better.


----------



## sixty9sublime

PhoenixMDA said:


> The important thing is more the reproducible stability in border area, but yes you can spare io/sa 0-20mv and perhaps a little bit vdimm.
> On Auto it´s better to give a little bit more voltage that he set the value´s better.


Appreciate the inisght @PheonixMDA.  Guess that means back to the drawing board for me regarding slopes....

Finally found the setting in BIOS for vref yesterday. On MSI boards vref can be set "by CPU" or "by HW", second option allows for manual values with 0.600 being default. 

Was able to run 3 cycles of Anta777 at a lower VDIMM 1.54 (which was previously unstable) but saw a single error with vref set at 0.790 (51.5%). Is there a safe voltage range for vref values? Heard up to 55% of VDIMM was ok for dual rank.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

ich think you are much to high, on Apex XII is 0,6 in Red, normal value's are there 0,495-0,54.
With my 3200c14bin was over 0,54 to much there i get error 2C.
Vref is there a multiplier with the vdimm, at 1,6V with vref 0,5 you have 0,8V.
I dont know it that this has changed.

I don't can say you the point of dangerous for msi, but i would say test 0,5 and then higher, perhaps you need there really 0,6 and more.

P.s.
On Apex XII is also 0,6 Standard perhaps at low Vdimm like 1,2V.


----------



## sixty9sublime

PhoenixMDA said:


> ich think you are much to high, on Apex XII is 0,6 in Red, normal value's are there 0,495-0,54.
> With my 3200c14bin was over 0,54 to much there i get error 2C.
> Vref is a multiplier with the vdimm, at 1,6V with vref 0,5 you have 0,8V.
> I don't can say you the point of dangerous for msi, but i would say test 0,5 and then higher, perhaps you need there really 0,6 and more.


At first I was kinda worried as well, but the default value range is .600 - 1.200. Setting a value under 0.600 isn't possible. I think MSI just uses a different format for setting vref, instead of using a multiplier you just set the actual value.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Then i can say to you i´m arround 0,75-0,8 in real value, perhaps that help you.


----------



## GtiJason

spin5000 said:


> 1. Anyone know what I should do to further improve RAM bandwidth and/or latency further? I'm thinking next steps would be more aggressive tREFI, tRFC, tCKE but what about the other secondary and tertiary timings?
> 
> 2. Are there timings I can loosen which can help me tighten the primaries? It seems 14-15-15-36 (possibly 14-15-15-35) is the limit at the moment (had slightly decreased performance - especially RAM copy test in OCCT - when trying tighter primaries).
> 
> Voltages:
> VCCIO 1.25v
> VCCSA 1.30v
> DRAM 1.51v
> 
> I'll work towards lowering those voltages after I'm finished tuning the ram


----------



## ViTosS

Does anyone know how to counter that when you are stable at certain settings and then you reboot and suddenly you lost stability?


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> Does anyone know how to counter that when you are stable at certain settings and then you reboot and suddenly you lost stability?


Check that your RTL/IOLs aren't changing each boot. Set the fast boot setting to "No Training" if you haven't already.


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> Check that your RTL/IOLs aren't changing each boot. Set the fast boot setting to "No Training" if you haven't already.


Already done that, doesn't fix


----------



## 7empe

ViTosS said:


> Already done that, doesn't fix


You're on the edge with tWR - it may be too low. Increase tWRPRE so the tWR is higher & even.


----------



## spin5000

7empe said:


> What's the highest frequency you can get with CL16? Are you saying that you can't get anywhere beyond 3600 with the default latency?


Yup. No matter the latency, even looser primaries than stock XMP, I cannot boot or even post past the default XMP frequency of 3600 MHz unless I use gear 2 mode in which case I think I can go up to 4200 or 4266 max. B-Die dual-rank 3600 16-16-16-36 kits should be good for around 4200 or 4266 in gear 1 mode (for example, on a 10900K) from everything I've read over the years. But I cannot even post past 3600 MHz even with the 10900K (which have way stronger IMCs than the 11900K) let alone my 11900K. Blows my mind.


GtiJason said:


> View attachment 2526579


Yes, I am adjusting the "MEM OC VCCIO". Gigabyte calls it "VCCIO2".

I will try all that you mentioned there especially the voltages in the large paragraph but I always hear that more than 1.30v or 1.35v for VCCSA and VCCIO is dangerous for a daily voltage. I'll still try it though.

How are you running tRAS 14? Shouldn't you be running tRAS somewhere between 26 and 34 if your other primaries are 13-14-14? I read it's usually the last two primaries (14 and 14 in this case) added together (28) and then anywhere from -2 to +4ish (26 to 32ish)?...


EDIT:

I just tried increasing frequency from 3600 MHz to 3733 MHz without adjusting any timings while blasting quite a few volts:
VCCIO2 from 1.25v to 1.35v
VCCSA from 1.30v to 1.375v
DRAM from 1.46v to 1.58v

...guess what? Still can't post.

It seems to matter the voltages, no matter how loose the timings, I cannot post beyond 3600 MHz. It's almost as if the RAM, CPU, or motherboard has been purposely programmed to not "allow" RAM frequency beyond 3600 MHz. It makes no sense.....


----------



## PhoenixMDA

ViTosS said:


> Does anyone know how to counter that when you are stable at certain settings and then you reboot and suddenly you lost stability?


At first i would find the best voltage´s IO/SA VDimm and Vref for reproducible stabilty, then fix the right RTL/IOL and set the odt right.
IO/SA musst also be in a good relationship to each other, to high is not good to low also not.You must find a window there it´s good trained "out of the box".
To hard sub´s can also be a problem for auto training.

P.S.
To change some training options can help in some cases.


----------



## GtiJason

spin5000 said:


> EDIT:
> 
> I just tried increasing frequency from 3600 MHz to 3733 MHz without adjusting any timings while blasting quite a few volts:
> VCCIO2 from 1.25v to 1.35v
> VCCSA from 1.30v to 1.375v
> DRAM from 1.46v to 1.58v
> 
> ...guess what? Still can't post.
> 
> It seems to matter the voltages, no matter how loose the timings, I cannot post beyond 3600 MHz. It's almost as if the RAM, CPU, or motherboard has been purposely programmed to not "allow" RAM frequency beyond 3600 MHz. It makes no sense.....


I can't post 3733 either with SA below 1.39v, IO2 at 1.35 probably enough, Dram 1.52 - 53 should be good on average kit
This is why I said look for "Initial" or "Boot" voltages and try 1.4io2 1.45sa with the actual operating system voltages lower like 1.35io2 1.4sa
Remember this is just a test, to get you in the OS and lower voltages even more if possible. These die's/cores are much larger than anything Intel has done on mainstream platform in a very long time so the heat is more spread out but the architecture being 10 on 14 requires it if you want high OC. If you don't care about that then stick with 3600, not like you'll notice a difference on a daily rig like this anyways. Maybe if you were on 5700G you might or you can try gear 2, some kits only like gear 2 while others prefer 1. G2 will require less io2 and sa voltages in most cases as well but I usually keep that for my Single rank kits like my G.Skill 4800c17-19-19 1.6v that runs 4800c16 with io2 at 1.05v and SA at 1.125v


----------



## bscool

@spin5000 It could also just be down to bios optimizations. I recently got a z590 unify x and booting dual rank past 3600 was tough even setting higher voltages and manual timings. A beta bios lets 3866 boot easy.

The same 11900k booted 3866 in z590 Apex and Hero at 3733-3866+. So bios is a big part of it.

Also IMC vary and my weakest 11900k needs 1.45sa to even boot 3733c14 and 1.5sa to be stable under tight timings.


----------



## ViTosS

7empe said:


> You're on the edge with tWR - it may be too low. Increase tWRPRE so the tWR is higher & even.


16 is too low? I thought 10-12 was low, you suggest increase to what?


----------



## ViTosS

PhoenixMDA said:


> At first i would find the best voltage´s IO/SA VDimm and Vref for reproducible stabilty, then fix the right RTL/IOL and set the odt right.
> IO/SA musst also be in a good relationship to each other, to high is not good to low also not.You must find a window there it´s good trained "out of the box".
> To hard sub´s can also be a problem for auto training.
> 
> P.S.
> To change some training options can help in some cases.


Alright thanks, considering my timings like these below, what would you suggest for 4600CL17-17-17-37? And also what's a good IO/SA and vDIMM considering I have these below stable at 1.25/1.30v and 1.56v


----------



## PhoenixMDA

ViTosS said:


> Alright thanks, considering my timings like these below, what would you suggest for 4600CL17-17-17-37? And also what's a good IO/SA and vDIMM considering I have these below stable at 1.25/1.30v and 1.56v
> 
> View attachment 2526691


I have not much tested with 2x8gb only one time with my Patriot and an not good IMC, there was 4800CL17-17 bootable and 4600CL17-17 easy stable.
But the ram was selected, i would try CL17-17/18 and 19,the necessary IO is a question of your IMC for 4600 i have seen a range from 1,25-1,4V, the SA is in the most cases the same or a little bit higher.In HWL we have a list a result´s.It give´s there no big difference between CFL and CML.
[Sammelthread] - Intel Coffee Lake & Comet Lake RAM OC - Ergebnis-Thread! KEIN Quatschthread!


----------



## YaqY

Has anyone had issues with certain configs in DR bdie. With M12A and 4400C17 DR bdie in one stick order i can boot to 4666 fine, sometimes issues with 3F code. If i swap sticks around i cannot boot over 4500, and to boot 4500 i must use 16-16 (even this seems inconsistent, I only had it boot once) or i see the 31 post code then 55. @PhoenixMDA do you have any input here, can't seem to figure out this weird behaviour. I tried different tcwl, early/late command training etc. Tried messing with some sa/io/vdimm and trdrd_sg 7 or 6. The stick quality i tested it did 4200 15-16 1.52V tight subs stable didn't test lower. The cpu is SP97 10900k.
Edit:
I am trying 4500 16-17 at about 1.5vdimm i pass 31 post code but after 44 i see 69 and it reloops. Sometimes it just stops at 31 then 55.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> Has anyone had issues with certain configs in DR bdie. With M12A and 4400C17 DR bdie in one stick order i can boot to 4666 fine, sometimes issues with 3F code. If i swap sticks around i cannot boot over 4500, and to boot 4500 i must use 16-16 (even this seems inconsistent, I only had it boot once) or i see the 31 post code then 55. @PhoenixMDA do you have any input here, can't seem to figure out this weird behaviour. I tried different tcwl, early/late command training etc. Tried messing with some sa/io/vdimm and trdrd_sg 7 or 6. The stick quality i tested it did 4200 15-16 1.52V tight subs stable didn't test lower. The cpu is SP97 10900k.
> Edit:
> I am trying 4500 16-17 at about 1.5vdimm i pass 31 post code but after 44 i see 69 and it reloops. Sometimes it just stops at 31 then 55.


If you get 31 it can be different thinks, wrong Timings, wrong odt, but most time voltage is to low *vdimm*, io/sa.
If the vref to low i get also 3e,3a,34...
If you get 69 after 44 you must set RTL/IOL manuell, to know the right value's it's good to set cmd drive strenght and tx equalization to on, that help's me for train the Roundtrip.In the most cases code 69 i get if the sub's to hard for Roundtrip Training.
But with the right RTL/IOL i get this stable.

P.s.
After you have trained the right rtl/iol set cmd drive strenght and tx equalization on disable, without it's in my cases better stable.it can take some try.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@YaqY 
For 4600cl16-16 i need twrwr_sg on 7.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> If you get 31 it can be different thinks, wrong Timings, wrong odt, but most time voltage is to low *vdimm*, io/sa.
> If the vref to low i get also 3e,3a,34...
> If you get 69 after 44 you must set RTL/IOL manuell, to know the right value's it's good to set cmd drive strenght and tx equalization to on, that help's me for train the Roundtrip.In the most cases code 69 i get if the sub's to hard for Roundtrip Training.
> But with the right RTL/IOL i get this stable.
> 
> P.s.
> After you have trained the right rtl/iol set cmd drive strenght and tx equalization on disable, without it's in my cases better stable.it can take some try.


Thanks for the response. The issue here is i just tested before 1.52Vdimm 4500 16-17 ran some memtest with manual rtl/iol and then reboot and instantly hit 31 then 55. I find it unusual that i can boot it fine once then reboot and not even post. This is with the sticks in one configuration. If i switch them around then it is easier to boot 16-17 up to 4666, sometimes 3F becomes an issue. 4500 16-17 should be stable at 1.52Vdimm, i tried more or less and also sa/io and doesn't seem to help (i shouldn't need too much SA/IO maybe 1.3/1.35 will be enough for 4500). Maybe i should switch back to the other configuration. My end goal is 4600 C16 or more but I am trying a bit lower to get a feeling of the modules and the right configuration. My old 3200C14 set didn't have this 31-55 issue more so 3F if the tcwl wasn't on 13 for higher frequencies.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

What you memory need to do memtest and that is necessary to train it stable are different things.
If it under load and you reboot then is over and no suprise that you get 31.
If you have the "better stick" in front it's normal that he can train higher.
I have tested the sticks solo and have taken the 2 sticks, that can do easy 4700 solo.In my case it's so i can boot in both configuration up to 4700, but with the one Stick in front it's much easier to be Gsat stable.

With my old selected Kit i have need for 4500CL16-17 1,57V to be really in every case stable, There was the difference of bootable between changing sticks 66-100mhz.


----------



## fenriquez

PhoenixMDA said:


> It´s also a big question of timings and voltage´s and so on, that something like unpossible make´s it possible.
> Like 2x16GB [email protected] at begin i think it´s not possible to do that.
> View attachment 2526152


@PhoenixMDA Do you happen to have a .cmo or txt file of your settings for that 4600mhz 16-16-16-34 timings? The reason I ask is that I am having trouble to be able to get 4500mhz 16-16-16-38 stable with karhu ramtest, even though I am GSAT stable with multiple reboots and stays consistently stable on GSAT but I seem to error on karhu after a few hours. Any help would be appreciated thanks. I don't have any issue getting 4500mhz 16-17-17 timings stable with tight subs. Thanks again if your able to help.


----------



## YaqY

fenriquez said:


> @PhoenixMDA Do you happen to have a .cmo or txt file of your settings for that 4600mhz 16-16-16-34 timings? The reason I ask is that I am having trouble to be able to get 4500mhz 16-16-16-38 stable with karhu ramtest, even though I am GSAT stable with multiple reboots and stays consistently stable on GSAT but I seem to error on karhu after a few hours. Any help would be appreciated thanks. I don't have any issue getting 4500mhz 16-17-17 timings stable with tight subs. Thanks again if your able to help.


Karhu tests the memory timings more than gsat. Your vdimm might be too low or the imc/memory modules cannot handle trcd 16.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

fenriquez said:


> @PhoenixMDA Do you happen to have a .cmo or txt file of your settings for that 4600mhz 16-16-16-34 timings? The reason I ask is that I am having trouble to be able to get 4500mhz 16-16-16-38 stable with karhu ramtest, even though I am GSAT stable with multiple reboots and stays consistently stable on GSAT but I seem to error on karhu after a few hours. Any help would be appreciated thanks. I don't have any issue getting 4500mhz 16-17-17 timings stable with tight subs. Thanks again if your able to help.


It´s like YaqY said i would test it´s timings or temp/voltage, my other settings don´t help you Slope´s Vref etc. is especially for my combination of hw.Also what your kit can do timings you must test, my kit need tWRWR_sg 7 for do that.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@fenriquez
For 4666CL16-16 the 4600ér timings dont work, i need this to be stable also memtest.


----------



## ViTosS

PhoenixMDA said:


> @fenriquez
> For 4666CL16-16 the 4600ér timings dont work, i need this to be stable also memtest.
> View attachment 2527087


That's sick, one of the best RAM OC I've seen, especially for being 2x16GB


----------



## mouacyk

ViTosS said:


> That's sick, one of the best RAM OC I've seen, especially for being 2x16GB


The bandwidth efficiency is sick, almost 97% of theoretical.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

At first i have think that CL16-16 the sub´s to hard and i don´t have the gaming power like it shows at AIDA64, but it was some side load of programms.
The gaming power is really good, like SoT best result i have ever get at this frequency.
5,1/4,7 and 5,3/4,9


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> @fenriquez
> For 4666CL16-16 the 4600ér timings dont work, i need this to be stable also memtest.
> View attachment 2527087


That is super impressive. I tried my 4400c17 bin today and to even boot 16-16 at 4400 and above I need to enable early command training and disable late command training, but this is very unstable. I am not too happy with the quality of the sticks, cannot run trdrd_sg 6 at 4600 and above and seems impossible to make 4600 stable across reboots, even 4500 is not clean.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I can say to you one of the 4000C14 kit was also not really stable with tRDRD_sg 6 over 4400, but 4700CL16-17 was bootable with 7.
4600CL17-17 not possible.The other Kit was able to do up to 4666CL16-17 with tRDRD_sg 6 and also 4600CL17 bootable, but nothing with 4600 GSat stable.

You know my OC setting from the list in HWL test this timings and set the Vref 0,5-0,53 at 4600 CL16-17 / CL17-17 / 17-18 if you cant drive tRDRD_sg 6, one or both of the sticks are bad.I use late command.
You need 2 sticks where the ic´s are really simular at his own and together.If that isn´t so forget tRDRD_sg 6 and CL17.
I had 4 sticks with contineous number and Stick 2 and 3 was able to boot alone 4700 and works good together with tRDRD_sg 6.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> I can say to you one of the 4000C14 kit was also not really stable with tRDRD_sg 6 over 4400, but 4700CL16-17 was bootable with 7.
> 4600CL17-17 not possible.The other Kit was able to do up to 4666CL16-17 with tRDRD_sg 6 and also 4600CL17 bootable, but nothing with 4600 GSat stable.
> 
> You know my OC setting from the list in HWL test this timings and set the Vref 0,5-0,53 at 4600 CL16-17 / CL17-17 / 17-18 if you cant drive tRDRD_sg 6, one or both of the sticks are bad.I use late command.
> You need 2 sticks where the ic´s are really simular at his own and together.If that isn´t so forget tRDRD_sg 6 and CL17.
> I had 4 sticks with contineous number and Stick 2 and 3 was able to boot alone 4700 and works good together with tRDRD_sg 6.
> View attachment 2527332
> View attachment 2527336


The voltage on these sticks is pretty good, 4500 16-17 ran at about 1.54V. The issue is really the reproducible stability across boots, even testing different ODT/Vref brought no consistency. I think the IMC isn't the issue more the sticks. One of the sticks alone struggles to boot 4500 and above, this stick must be second for me to even boot 4600 with both sticks together. If anyone here is selling some sticks that can run 4600 or above stable on the apex across reboots, I would be interested.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

It is like you say, it´s not your IMC, the sticks are the problem.Really stable 4600+ sticks are really rar, my old kit i have sell for a fair price with the EK Monarch.
Only few has a 100% stable 2x16GB 4600+ Kit, it´s really rare.Or you must select stick from kit´s, that´s the best chance to get it.

A Really good Kit do 4600Cl16 or CL17 boot/gsat/memtest stable out of the box, perhap´s you need Vref, but not slope´s/ODT etc.


----------



## SoldierRBT

YaqY said:


> The voltage on these sticks is pretty good, 4500 16-17 ran at about 1.54V. The issue is really the reproducible stability across boots, even testing different ODT/Vref brought no consistency. I think the IMC isn't the issue more the sticks. One of the sticks alone struggles to boot 4500 and above, this stick must be second for me to even boot 4600 with both sticks together. If anyone here is selling some sticks that can run 4600 or above stable on the apex across reboots, I would be interested.


You can have the proper vref/vdimm and ODTs but if the timings aren't right for the sticks, you will have boot issues. I'm running 4600 17-17-17-32 1.52v gsat/memtest stable but usually have random boot instability. I've solved it a couple of days ago by changing RDRD_sg training to 7 but keeping RDRD_sg to 6 in Windows. You also need to let the board train rtls/iols and not forcing tighter ones. My board trains 65/65/8/8. If I select 64/65/7/8, it's not stable.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

My old Kit was Out of the Box 4600CL17-17 stable (auto trained 65/64/65/65 8/7/8/8), my new Kit is out of the box CL16 stable, Cl17-17 need more to do with that Kit.
Both Kit´s can also do Gsat stable at 4666 without slope´s the one at CL17 the other at CL16.
And like Soldier say don´t force wrong RTL/IOL.


----------



## sixty9sublime

PhoenixMDA said:


> My old Kit was Out of the Box 4600CL17-17 stable (auto trained 65/64/65/65 8/7/8/8), my new Kit is out of the box CL16 stable, Cl17-17 need more to do with that Kit.
> Both Kit´s can also do Gsat stable at 4666 without slope´s the one at CL17 the other at CL16.


How long does everyone run GSAT? I've always shot for atleast a couple 4hr passes in GSAT. Getting past the first hour is easy, but errors seem to pop up between hrs 2-3 when I'm unstable.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

sixty9sublime said:


> How long does everyone run GSAT? I've always shot for atleast a couple 4hr passes in GSAT. Getting past the first hour is easy, but errors seem to pop up between hrs 2-3 when I'm unstable.


It´s better to test it so, shut down...turn off the power supply, then start...do GSat for 3-5min, do that 5 times, if you are without error´s then 1h GSat.
On Apex the Cold boot after powerless power supply is the difficult training, if you are unstable there you get in normal boot also sometime´s a failboot, but not so often.

Gsat is an "extrem test" to test the comunication between CPU/memory it´s not really a memory test.1h stable is more as enough, it´s more important to be every boot
to be just as stable.If you are to unstable in Gsat like only 2min (but stable in memtest) you can get as example CRC error by zip/unzip data or system crash.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Well that's a relief. So your saying even though I failed GSAT at just under 4hrs doesn't necessarily mean it's unstable. I've had no issues passing other stress tests, anta777 3-9 cycles and prime 112k etc. 

I wish I could test cold boots in the same manner as you recommended but with the z490 unify my options are limited. Once a good training happens it's best to turn off training as this board likes to drift a bit when it comes to RTL/IOLs even though manually values are set. Consistent training is very tough for this board despite finding optimal ODTs, voltages, slopes, etc.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I search at first for a good window of vref/io/sa/vdimm and subs that are possible for a stable Auto training, that alone take much tests/time.
If i have such a window i do the slopes, that is a process over weeks to be sure that are the right value's.
Other some month i know how that my kit need for different settings etc..
It gives some value's that are trained by auto/ or not available, some not good to set manuell like the bitline's.
But if you are in a really good "window" the board set that consistant or you are over the limit.If you do training off and have bigger changes in room temp i think you get a problem.

A really good ram Kit is the most important thing, a good imc and Board the second, to reach higher frequency really stable.


----------



## Betroz

I wonder what memory performance sweetspot there is for a 10900K before it just does'nt matter anymore. Sure a highly tweaked kit with 72 GB/s read/write and ~32ns latency is awesome and all, but does it REALLY perform better in GAMES than say ; 60 GB/s read/write and ~40ns latency.... Stock 2133 / 2666 / 2933 memory is obviously a bottleneck.


----------



## Imprezzion

Betroz said:


> I wonder what memory performance sweetspot there is for a 10900K before it just does'nt matter anymore. Sure a highly tweaked kit with 72 GB/s read/write and ~32ns latency is awesome and all, but does it REALLY perform better in GAMES than say ; 60 GB/s read/write and ~40ns latency.... Stock 2133 / 2666 / 2933 memory is obviously a bottleneck.


According to my benchmarks in several games the 60GB/s 40ns point is indeed kinda where scaling stops with x46 cache. Bandwidth is also more important then latency for pure FPS.


----------



## Betroz

Imprezzion said:


> According to my benchmarks in several games the 60GB/s 40ns point is indeed kinda where scaling stops with x46 cache. Bandwidth is also more important then latency for pure FPS.


Yeah. Finding a sweetspot for 24/7 use is interesting so that we can lower the voltages and not degrade our CPU too soon.


----------



## YaqY

SoldierRBT said:


> You can have the proper vref/vdimm and ODTs but if the timings aren't right for the sticks, you will have boot issues. I'm running 4600 17-17-17-32 1.52v gsat/memtest stable but usually have random boot instability. I've solved it a couple of days ago by changing RDRD_sg training to 7 but keeping RDRD_sg to 6 in Windows. You also need to let the board train rtls/iols and not forcing tighter ones. My board trains 65/65/8/8. If I select 64/65/7/8, it's not stable.


I messed around with rtls/iols too. I noticed that usually on CHA you can run the iols at 7 and hence rtls one tick lower, for example 62/62/63/63/7/7/8/8 versus 63/63/63/63/8/8/8/8. Either combinations were causing issues really and made no progress so i just conclude the memory sticks probably aren't capable of higher frequencies stable. Made lots of changes with subs too, tcwl 14-16 i tested, different twrwr_sg and trcd etc but didn't seem to make it consistent.


----------



## anta777

My new config for tm5 - absolut.








absolutnew.cfg







bit.ly


----------



## sixty9sublime

anta777 said:


> My new config for tm5 - absolut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> absolutnew.cfg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bit.ly


Interesting. Man of a few words lol

Is this a harder test to run than your previous config?


----------



## anta777

Yes.


----------



## Betroz

I tested the new anta777 ABSOLUT config for TM5 on my current RAM profile and it passed. The test didn't take as much time as the old anta777 extreme config.


----------



## mouacyk

Betroz said:


> I tested the new anta777 ABSOLUT config for TM5 on my current RAM profile and it passed. The test didn't take as much time as the old anta777 extreme config.


What does that mean?


----------



## anta777

del


----------



## The Pook

sixty9sublime said:


> Man of a few words lol





anta777 said:


> Yes.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

mouacyk said:


> What does that mean?


Arround a half hour less as anta777 extrem, i need arround 2h hour with my daily.
Nothing for short testing^^, but for 24/7 stability test is that ok.


----------



## Betroz

@PhoenixMDA you won the silicon lottery with both CPU and memory there


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Betroz said:


> @PhoenixMDA you won the silicon lottery with both CPU and memory there


No i have bought a selected CPU from HWL marktplace^^ and the memory is an selected high Bin
That is no conicidence.The rest is a question of settings like Slope's.

My first 2 10900k was not good.


----------



## ViTosS

Anyone on Windows 11? Aida64 latency still higher than Windows 10?


----------



## bscool

ViTosS said:


> Anyone on Windows 11? Aida64 latency still higher than Windows 10?


I tested the latest Win 11 Insider editions(from the last week) and latency is back to the same as Win10. Still haven't installed the "official" Win 11 that came out yesterday. May be doing that later today to compare how the official/final version compares.

Edit tested on z390 Hero/Apex and z590 Unify doing clean installs.

Edit 2 Installed the official release Win11 on z590 Unify and latency is good, same as Win 10.


----------



## 7empe

ViTosS said:


> Anyone on Windows 11? Aida64 latency still higher than Windows 10?


Got it installed just right now. Bandwidth and latency identical as on W10.


----------



## fenriquez

@PhoenixMDA

I was able to stabilize 4500mhz 16-16-16-38 timings with tight subs by adjusting slopes a bit and keeping all my other settings the same, adjusting slopes was what really gave me solid stability
BIOS set:
DRAM Voltage - 1.55v
VCCIO - 1.28v
VCCSA - 1.3v
GSAT 1H and Karhu 8h stable on multiple cold boots and restarts

10900k - 5.3ghz core 5.0ghz cache


----------



## PhoenixMDA

That´s a really great result gz, you have a good kit.
For me it´s strangely enough easier with CL16-16 to get this GSat and boot stable as CL16-17 or most difficult is CL17 in high frequency.


----------



## anta777

*fenriquez*
tRFC=280
tRAS=34 or 36
RDRDsg=WRWRsg=CCDL=7 for you


----------



## fenriquez

PhoenixMDA said:


> That´s a really great result gz, you have a good kit.
> For me it´s strangely enough easier with CL16-16 to get this GSat and boot stable as CL16-17 or most difficult is CL17 in high frequency.


Thank you, really appreciate the help you have contributed wouldnt have been able to stablize these settings without some of your guidance @PhoenixMDA , I also have another question, I was reading one of your CMO files you contributed into this thread for a 4666mhz profile and I wondered how you determined to manually set DRAM CLK Period to the 39 value, was that just trial and error or is there a rule or any important info on the DRAM CLK value? Thanks again.


----------



## fenriquez

anta777 said:


> *fenriquez*
> tRFC=280
> tRAS=34 or 36
> RDRDsg=WRWRsg=CCDL=7 for you


@anta777

Hi anta I am able to run TRFC 280 and TRAS 34 stable but when gaming it doesnt feel as smooth as trfc 320 and TRAS 38 for me, I'm thinking of testing the value CCDL=7 but what is that value on AsRockTiming configurator?? I can probably see those values on Asus MemtweakIt but I would ideally want to set them in BIOS and not realtime. What is CCDL equivalents on the timing table? I'm assuming tRDRD_sg can be changed to 7 and tWRWR_sg is already 7 on my timing profile. Thanks


----------



## anta777

Yes.
tRAS=36


----------



## PhoenixMDA

fenriquez said:


> Thank you, really appreciate the help you have contributed wouldnt have been able to stablize these settings without some of your guidance @PhoenixMDA , I also have another question, I was reading one of your CMO files you contributed into this thread for a 4666mhz profile and I wondered how you determined to manually set DRAM CLK Period to the 39 value, was that just trial and error or is there a rule or any important info on the DRAM CLK value? Thanks again.


Dram CLk you can also let on auto has in my case no big impact, on Z390 4x8gb was 43 fine,.
In my case are arround 34-39 also ok, on Auto is higher you can counting the steps 800... to 4500 in dram frequency how much it are.
It have no performance difference between tRAS 32-34, if you get problems with dimm temp it's good to test higher value, perhaps it helps.In my case no difference.
I set tRDRD_sg to 6 for better performance, my sticks need twrwr_sg to 7 or 5 in higher frequency with CL16-16.
twrwr_sg 6 only possible to boot if i set tRDRD_sg to 5 but thats not stable.^^
Most time is tRDRD_sg 6 more stable as 7, if the sticks able to do that, but most kit's need 7 in higher frequency.
The possible subs is a question of the Kit.


----------



## anta777

RDRDsg=CCDL
WRWRsg=CCDL
CCDL you have 6 and 7 at the same time.
Confuses nothing ?


----------



## 7empe

anta777 said:


> RDRDsg=CCDL
> WRWRsg=CCDL
> CCDL you have 6 and 7 at the same time.
> Confuses nothing ?


Is tCDD_L accessible on ASUS board? I have Maximus Extreme XII and can't find tCCD_L anywhere.


----------



## anta777

*fenriquez*
tREFI=65024 better

tREFIx9 * 1024 = Maximum time (in ticks) between updates.
With tREFIx9 = 127, we get 127 * 1024 = 130048 clock cycles.
This is a window into which (multiple times) an integer number of tREFI loops must fit.
Hence tREFI is equal to:
130048/2 = 65024 (fit 2 tREFI cycles)
130048/3 = 43349
130048/4 = 32512
130048/5 = 26009
130048/6 = 21674
130048/7 = 18578
130048/8 = 16256 (8 tREFI cycles)


----------



## Betroz

anta777 said:


> *fenriquez*
> tREFI=65024 better


May I ask why 65024 is better than 65535 for tREFI?


----------



## anta777

associated with the limitation tREFIx9=127


----------



## PhoenixMDA

anta777 said:


> RDRDsg=CCDL
> WRWRsg=CCDL
> CCDL you have 6 and 7 at the same time.
> Confuses nothing ?


theory vs. practice...i take that one that is most stable with the best performance in reality.


----------



## Betroz

anta777 said:


> associated with the limitation tREFIx9=127


Sorry, but I don't understand.


----------



## anta777

then just take it on faith


----------



## YaqY

anta777 said:


> *fenriquez*
> tRFC=280
> tRAS=34 or 36
> RDRDsg=WRWRsg=CCDL=7 for you


Issue is there is no premise for this on stability. Some kits run more stable at 6/6 rdrdsg and wrwrsg. Some cas and trcd combos need 6/6 to even boot on the apex.


----------



## anta777

so put 6/6
you can safely bet 8/8, losing almost nothing in performance and gaining in stability

A study was carried out how often, during real use, memory accesses to different banks occur.
It turned out that
RDRDsg- 2%
WRWRsg- 2%
WRWRdg- 30%
RDRDdg- 66%

Conclusion - you can always set RDRDsg = WRWRsg = 8 and RRDL = 8, without losing almost anything in performance, while significantly gaining in stability.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

anta777 said:


> so put 6/6
> you can safely bet 8/8, losing almost nothing in performance and gaining in stability
> 
> A study was carried out how often, during real use, memory accesses to different banks occur.
> It turned out that
> RDRDsg- 2%
> WRWRsg- 2%
> WRWRdg- 30%
> RDRDdg- 66%
> 
> Conclusion - you can always set RDRDsg = WRWRsg = 8 and RRDL = 8, without losing almost anything in performance, while significantly gaining in stability.


That´s right in FPS between tRDRD_sg 6 to 7 it´s the same, only some benchmark´s like AIDA64 copy or Geekbench Multiscore are a little bit higher.
But i have with 6/7 no performance or stability problems, 6/6 or 8/8 not possible only 7/7 also work but in that case boot stability not testet.
so it fits.
At cl16-17 6/6 boot without qcode 3e.


----------



## Dreamhackian

Anyone here have experience with slopes? On my Maximus XII Apex. Data Rising/Falling stuff, etc. Saw a old post about it but it didn't explain how we are supposed to get baseline values. doing one group at a time leads to others retraining on auto. any tips? maybe I can disable training


----------



## tbob22

Anyone have experience with tREFI and the row hammer test in memtest86? I have four sticks of Silicon Power Dual Rank 32gb 3200mhz in my MSI x299 Pro/7920x build and using the XMP profile it will not constantly pass this test.

I've lowered it from the default 12480 to 6240 and it seems to be much better _(4 passes so far, it would usually fail on 2-3 passes before)_, but there is a performance loss. I have direct airflow over the sticks, so I don't think temps are an issue.


----------



## Falkentyne

anta777 said:


> *fenriquez*
> tREFI=65024 better
> 
> tREFIx9 * 1024 = Maximum time (in ticks) between updates.
> With tREFIx9 = 127, we get 127 * 1024 = 130048 clock cycles.
> This is a window into which (multiple times) an integer number of tREFI loops must fit.
> Hence tREFI is equal to:
> 130048/2 = 65024 (fit 2 tREFI cycles)
> 130048/3 = 43349
> 130048/4 = 32512
> 130048/5 = 26009
> 130048/6 = 21674
> 130048/7 = 18578
> 130048/8 = 16256 (8 tREFI cycles)


Why is everything getting so hard all of a sudden?
Since when did you need a degree in calculus to overclock a computer?


----------



## 7empe

Dreamhackian said:


> Anyone here have experience with slopes? On my Maximus XII Apex. Data Rising/Falling stuff, etc. Saw a old post about it but it didn't explain how we are supposed to get baseline values. doing one group at a time leads to others retraining on auto. any tips? maybe I can disable training


1. Leave offsets to auto. Don't bother with disabling training algorithms (if you can lock the values & POST).
2. Put mid values to rise/falling slopes (e.g. 7).
3. Try to POST, if POST then check stability with some test. Measure the time to first failure.
4. BIOS, pick one group and go one direction up/down - e.g. data slopes. Try to differentiate (falling 6, raising 7)
5. Go to 4. If you found the longest period to crash/error - take a note of the setting.
6. Repeat the same with other groups - you you decided to go down, then continue the same direction with other groups.

In general there are two options - all slopes will have high values (like 9-13, 11-12 etc.) or all slopes wil take low values (5-7, 6-6 e.g.). Both can be stable, one can be especially beneficial for your config.

This is how I handle slopes. Very important is also to play with ODT skews. On Apex try 80(wr), 48(park), 40(nom) and try to tweak slightly from here (quite mobo, IMC, CPU specific stuff).



Falkentyne said:


> Why is everything getting so hard all of a sudden?
> Since when did you need a degree in calculus to overclock a computer?


Maybe since the computers became physics driven


----------



## anta777

*Falkentyne*
if you have nothing to say, then it is better to remain silent


----------



## Dreamhackian

7empe said:


> 1. Leave offsets to auto. Don't bother with disabling al
> 
> Thank you. Will just trial and error. 3200c14 kit to 4600 soon


----------



## 7empe

Go for 5000!


----------



## Betroz

anta777 said:


> if you have nothing to say, then it is better to remain silent


Maybe so, but why your salty attitude in here? First against my post, then Falkentynes post.


----------



## Falkentyne

anta777 said:


> *Falkentyne*
> if you have nothing to say, then it is better to remain silent


I don't think you know who I am.
And I don't think anyone cares that you made a script for testmem5. No offense but you're no better than any of us, "Gen".
Now if you''ll excuse me, I'm busy studying for a chess tournament. I do not have time for internet shenanigans. Bye.


----------



## anta777

*Betroz*
let him explain to you if he can,if I can, which I can do very well
*Falkentyne*
I don't think you know who I am.
I figured out all the DDR4 timings for Intel and shared this knowledge in the public domain more than 2 years ago.
The script is just a trifle.
And I don't think anyone cares that you made several guides on overclocking with errors, while appropriating other people's development.
I already told you - you'd better be silent, since you have nothing to say.

Do not disgrace, no offense.
Bye.


----------



## Dreamhackian

7empe said:


> Go for 5000!


I like this guy! gotta stabilize 4600 first hahah


----------



## The Pook

anta777 said:


> *Falkentyne*
> if you have nothing to say, then it is better to remain silent





Falkentyne said:


> I don't think you know who I am.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@anta777 
I have testet the performance between 6/7 7/7, only AIDA i´m not able to reach over 70k and Geekbench 4 was ever under 52k Multi, with 6/7 most time over 52k.
It´s really no difference in real performance, but it´s stable so i let it like it is..


----------



## firewrath9

GIGA BASED ANTA777


----------



## Dreamhackian

Should I update my M12A to the latest ME? does RKL ME affect memory training on 0088 in any way?


----------



## Simzak

I have never been able to get below 39ns on this board until I set tREFI to 65024
Thank you @anta777


----------



## fenriquez

@anta777 
Thank you for the TREFI suggestion, I do find gaming much smoother with trefi set to 65024. Also setting tRDRD_sg to 7 actually makes my profile unstable so I have to adjust slopes again to find stability, do you have any idea which slope setting may influence or help with tRDRD_sg stability? Thanks again


----------



## PhoenixMDA

You feeling of smother gaming is a delusion, for have a better frametime/ less or no spike´s are bigger changes in performance neccesary.Most people have spike´s at fill up shader cache while gaming.


----------



## anta777

*Simzak*

only dualrank and/or 4-DIMM
RDRDdr/dd=4+RPRE
WRRDdr/dd=CWL-CL+4+RPRE
WRWRdr/dd=4+WPRE


----------



## anta777

*PhoenixMDA*
Do you think that asus in bios did so?
RDRDsg=CCDL-1
WRWRsg=CCDL
or
RDRDsg=CCDL
WRWRsg=CCDL+1

I think that
RDRDsg=CCDL
WRWRsg=CCDL
it's just that you are more stable WRWRsg with +1.

But this is very conditional stability.
If it crashes when increasing RDRDsg +1 or RDRDsg=8 and WRWRsg=8.
Stability should not be affected by increasing RDRDsg or WRWRsg.


----------



## Betroz

@anta777 what are your recommendation for max SA and IO voltages for 24/7 use with a 10900K?


----------



## anta777

the lower the better (1.15 better than 1.25)
critical level in the area 1.35


----------



## PhoenixMDA

anta777 said:


> *PhoenixMDA*
> Do you think that asus in bios did so?
> RDRDsg=CCDL-1
> WRWRsg=CCDL
> or
> RDRDsg=CCDL
> WRWRsg=CCDL+1
> 
> I think that
> RDRDsg=CCDL
> WRWRsg=CCDL
> it's just that you are more stable WRWRsg with +1.
> 
> But this is very conditional stability.
> If it crashes when increasing RDRDsg +1 or RDRDsg=8 and WRWRsg=8.
> Stability should not be affected by increasing RDRDsg or WRWRsg.


Thats no conditional stability and it isnt the first time i drive trdrd_sg twrwr_sg different
It's also a different thing between bootstability, memtest/Gsat stability.
I'm stable at all and in every! boot that's the most important thing.
The conventional way don't must be the only right.

P.s.
Gigabyte say's 1,35V IO/SA is absolut safe on their site.


----------



## anta777

everything that includes?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Gsat, memtest, prime95, occt, realbench,
your anta absolut and the normal gaming, cold boot normal boot works perfect.
I think that is much more as the most have tested, useless test like fma3 etc. i dont do.

It works also for low voltage runs.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> Gsat, memtest, prime95, occt, realbench,
> your anta absolut and the normal gaming, cold boot normal boot works perfect.
> I think that is much more as the most have tested, useless test like fma3 etc. i dont do.
> 
> It works also for low voltage runs.
> 
> View attachment 2528469


What tests do you like to use in prime 95? For occt I found it tests vcore sa io well but doesn’t test ring stability well.


----------



## Betroz

anta777 said:


> critical level in the area 1.35


Most motherboards set higher SA / IO voltages than that just for XMP...
It is interesting how different "experts" say different max voltages are okay.


----------



## anta777

use at least 1.5 V, I don't care
Datasheet intel for 11th cpu sa max =1.52 V.
10th - 1.05+5%
io - 0.95+5%


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> What tests do you like to use in prime 95? For occt I found it tests vcore sa io well but doesn’t test ring stability well.


Prime i do normal custom like for hwl best list, but longer time.occt need's a little bit more vcore.
Stable Cache frequency is also a question of vcore/temp.


----------



## Betroz

anta777 said:


> use at least 1.5 V, I don't care
> Datasheet intel for 11th cpu sa max =1.52 V.
> *10th - 1.05+5%
> io - 0.95+5%*


So basically Intel say no to memory overclocking.... 
You can forget running a 2x16Gb kit at 4000+ Mhz at tweaked timings with that low SA/IO. But then again Intel datasheet is for stock 2666/2933 Mhz memory.

Why suddenly 11th gen CPU can handle max 1.52v SA and 10th gen that much lower voltage is strange.


----------



## 7empe

Betroz said:


> So basically Intel say no to memory overclocking....
> You can forget running a 2x16Gb kit at 4000+ Mhz at tweaked timings with that low SA/IO. But then again Intel datasheet is for stock 2666/2933 Mhz memory.
> 
> Why suddenly 11th gen CPU can handle max 1.52v SA and 10th gen that much lower voltage is strange.


Intel 10th gen. specification (10900k): pdf










Intel 11th gen. specification (11900k): pdf









No difference.


----------



## fenriquez

PhoenixMDA said:


> You feeling of smother gaming is a delusion, for have a better frametime/ less or no spike´s are bigger changes in performance neccesary.Most people have spike´s at fill up shader cache while gaming.


Yeah your right @PhoenixMDA could very well be my delusions  , I'm stable with Max trefi or the trefi anta777 advised as well regardless. My frametimes and 0.1% fps are very good already. With ocing my ram I get the max 240fps on 0.1% fps on my 240hz monitor so gaming is already smooth


----------



## Dreamhackian

anta777 said:


> use at least 1.5 V, I don't care
> Datasheet intel for 11th cpu sa max =1.52 V.
> 10th - 1.05+5%
> io - 0.95+5%


I am following some older posts you made on a forum for setting RTTs. overclockers.ru. 80/48/34, 48/40, and 48/48 all error similarly in GSAT on 1.295vdimm. all pass 1.3VDIMM on tm5 universal. WHich should I use? 3200c14 DR that i daily 4500c16 on.


----------



## anta777

80/48/34
*7empe*
S-processor != U,H-processor


----------



## Betroz

7empe said:


> No difference.


So basically as long as SA is under 1.52v, it should work fine. Although the lifespan of the CPU will be shorter than a CPU that only runs at 1.05v SA.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Betroz said:


> So basically as long as SA is under 1.52v, it should work fine. Although the lifespan of the CPU will be shorter than a CPU that only runs at 1.05v SA.


In the spec sheet under S-Processor, the only value for VCCSA listed is 1.05 typical. No max or min is stated so I guess it's pretty much up to personal interpretation.


----------



## 7empe

anta777 said:


> *7empe*
> S-processor != U,H-processor


So, you're saying that 10th gen. U (mobile power efficient),H (high performance optimized for mobile) processors can handle 1.52v, but S/K cannot. Reference?


----------



## sixty9sublime

7empe said:


> So, you're saying that 10th gen. U (mobile power efficient),H (high performance optimized for mobile) processors can handle 1.52v, but S/K cannot. Reference?


Read my post above yours. Source, literally the spec sheet you posted lol


----------



## Betroz

sixty9sublime said:


> In the spec sheet under S-Processor, the only value for VCCSA listed is 1.05 typical. No max or min is stated so I guess it's pretty much up to personal interpretation.


Yes, but that a 10900K (S-processor line) has max 1.05v SA ,while the other two have 1.52v max SA does not make sense. They are all made on the same 14nm process and basically the same architecture.


----------



## 7empe

Betroz said:


> Yes, but that a 10900K (S-processor line) has max 1.05v SA ,while the other two have 1.52v max SA does not make sense. They are all made on the same 14nm process and basically the same architecture.


Uhm, no. 1.05V SA is typical for S-Line, not a max. Max is undefined for S-Line and defined to 1.52V for U/H.


----------



## Betroz

7empe said:


> Max is undefined for S-Line and defined to 1.52V for U/H


I blame Intel for being cryptic with their datasheet


----------



## firewrath9

anta777 said:


> *fenriquez*
> tREFI=65024 better
> 
> tREFIx9 * 1024 = Maximum time (in ticks) between updates.
> With tREFIx9 = 127, we get 127 * 1024 = 130048 clock cycles.
> This is a window into which (multiple times) an integer number of tREFI loops must fit.
> Hence tREFI is equal to:
> 130048/2 = 65024 (fit 2 tREFI cycles)
> 130048/3 = 43349
> 130048/4 = 32512
> 130048/5 = 26009
> 130048/6 = 21674
> 130048/7 = 18578
> 130048/8 = 16256 (8 tREFI cycles)


Doesnt tREFIx9 register start from 0? so its really 0-127 or 128
and 128*1024/2 = 65535 (since register starts from 0 aswell)


----------



## 7empe

firewrath9 said:


> Doesnt tREFIx9 register start from 0? so its really 0-127 or 128
> and 128*1024/2 = 65535 (since register starts from 0 aswell)


It is 7-bit register. 128 would require 8th bit.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

7empe said:


> So, you're saying that 10th gen. U (mobile power efficient),H (high performance optimized for mobile) processors can handle 1.52v, but S/K cannot. Reference?


On Auto Asus set higher as 1,5V^^, i think if the other can do 1,52V sa the S can also do.


----------



## 7empe

PhoenixMDA said:


> On Auto Asus set higher as 1,5V^^, i think if the other can do 1,52V sa the S can also do.


For a while i had SA on Auto. BIOS pushed 1.65V. Nothing blew up


----------



## Dreamhackian

Have there been any updated guides on slope tuning? Want to know if there's a good way of tuning it with the groups being on auto when you're testing a single one.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Not really.....it give's here a thread for Slope's, it's the same way i had used on my Z390 with 4x8gb, try/error with gsat and i don't have find a better way.
The rest is experience.


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> So basically Intel say no to memory overclocking....
> You can forget running a 2x16Gb kit at 4000+ Mhz at tweaked timings with that low SA/IO. But then again Intel datasheet is for stock 2666/2933 Mhz memory.
> 
> Why suddenly 11th gen CPU can handle max 1.52v SA and 10th gen that much lower voltage is strange.


Strange my 10900k is still alive 
1.5v SA since almost day 1 
Hope it dying before Alder Lake LOL


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> For a while i had SA on Auto. BIOS pushed 1.65V. Nothing blew up


4800c17 "max tweaked" and auto SA on Apex is like 1.62 SA 

Very high VCCIO is bad. I like to have it under 1.45v


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Nizzen said:


> 4800c17 "max tweaked" and auto SA on Apex is like 1.62 SA
> 
> Very high VCCIO is bad. I like to have it under 1.45v


1.62V SA i have in much lower frequency on auto, for that i don´t need max. bench settings, the Apex push the voltage really stupid^^.
Over 1,38V IO in my case make also my IMC more unstable in GSAT.
I think GSAT+TM5 is the best test for have a good 24/7 setting.

In the frametime the 10900k with oc is really like perfekt.🙌


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Hope it dying before Alder Lake LOL


Yes, but you buy almost every new top-of-the-line CPU that Intel and AMD comes out with  
I must be a bit more careful with how I use my money, and so I need my 10900K to live longer. That being said, I do OC too so not gonna run it stock either.

I have a memory profile here with 1.35 IO and 1.45 SA (set in BIOS, but under load it goes higher) - I can continue using this then I guess.


----------



## SoldierRBT

4700 17-17-17 DR. Wish my kit was better with voltage


----------



## Betroz

SoldierRBT said:


> 4700 17-17-17 DR. Wish my kit was better with voltage


I wish my RAM kit and IMC were able to do the same as yours... Btw any reason you run tCKE at 6 and not 0 ?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

SoldierRBT said:


> 4700 17-17-17 DR. Wish my kit was better with voltage
> 
> View attachment 2528560


Have you get now it really bootstable? my problem with my chip is that 4700CL17 was not really stable, gsat possible but not very boot stable.
With the new kit 4700 17-17-17 not stable gsat, but 4700Cl16-17 is really bootstable but not 100% gsat stable.^^
Perhaps i find a solution if i have time., but i dont think so.


----------



## Dreamhackian

is dailying 1.635vdimm safe? i think i've almost got my 4600 stable


----------



## sixty9sublime

Dreamhackian said:


> is dailying 1.635vdimm safe? i think i've almost got my 4600 stable


Destination... Degradation City


----------



## SoldierRBT

PhoenixMDA said:


> Have you get now it really bootstable? my problem with my chip is that 4700CL17 was not really stable, gsat possible but not very boot stable.
> With the new kit 4700 17-17-17 not stable gsat, but 4700Cl16-17 is really bootstable but not 100% gsat stable.^^
> Perhaps i find a solution if i have time., but i dont think so.


It boots very consistently even without slopes and tested prime95 80k-192k and it passed no issues at 1.34v IO 1.35v SA. The problem seems to be the sticks above 37C on air it starts to be unstable on TM5. My kit seems to like CL17. CL16 requires a lot of vdimm. 4600 17-17-17-32 seems to be the sweetspot for now.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Yes i know that your IMC is better as my, but you have a really good Kit, most can´t drive what you can.

With my old Kit 4700CL17 was not the Problem, and TM5 also not up to 43°, but the boot stability in reboot with higher than 35° if i drive 4666/4700.
The new Kit boot perfekt 40°+ but my IMC Limit is with 4666 the same^^.


----------



## 7empe

2x16 GB dual rank @4533C16 vs 4-dimm mobo.
Boot stable. CMOS clear stable for over a week now.

I've been fighting for two weeks to decrease voltages: VDIMM (1.58V), SA (1.38V) and IO (1.35V) and keep the performance timings unchanged. Went down to 1.565V, 1.335V and 1.33V.



























Cheers!


----------



## mouacyk

☝ Congrats on 96% bandwidth efficiency. Holy DDR4 goodness, this is gonna make DDR5 debut look ancient. Just curious if you're taking advantage of that bandwidth.


----------



## 7empe

mouacyk said:


> ☝ Congrats on 96% bandwidth efficiency. Holy DDR4 goodness, this is gonna make DDR5 debut look ancient. Just curious if you're taking advantage of that bandwidth.


Does anyone here overclocks to satisfy a need for the bandwidth?  This is G.SKILL 4000 C16-19-19-39 btw.


----------



## mouacyk

7empe said:


> Does anyone here overclocks to satisfy a need for the bandwidth?  This is G.SKILL 4000 C16-19-19-39 btw.


Nope, we all do it for the moar clocks. That is a very nice kit and great CPU to drive it.


----------



## firewrath9

7empe said:


> It is 7-bit register. 128 would require 8th bit.


2^7 = 128
the register starts counting from 0, 0 = 1, 127 = 128.


----------



## firewrath9

sixty9sublime said:


> Destination... Degradation City


theres nothing wrong with running 1.635v on bdie. 1.65-1.7v should be dailyable. Any more and you're in maxmem territory.


----------



## 7empe

firewrath9 said:


> 2^7 = 128
> the register starts counting from 0, 0 = 1, 127 = 128.


The value matters. Not amount of values. Window length with size 0 does not exist.


----------



## 7empe

firewrath9 said:


> theres nothing wrong with running 1.635v on bdie. 1.65-1.7v should be dailyable. Any more and you're in maxmem territory.


Is your assumption based on empirical data?


----------



## Falkentyne

firewrath9 said:


> theres nothing wrong with running 1.635v on bdie. 1.65-1.7v should be dailyable. Any more and you're in maxmem territory.


I would not want to run more than 1.55v on a daily. I already remember a few people who had their B-dies degrade at 1.6v from scattered posts going a bit back.
1.5v already requires active cooling. Even stock 1.35v can get hot if you are running stress tests without direct airflow.


----------



## Betroz

mouacyk said:


> Just curious if you're taking advantage of that bandwidth.


More fps in games that are CPU bound 










I got an even 36.0 ns latency when I closed TestMem. Not that 0.2 ns matter


----------



## 7empe

Betroz said:


> More fps in games that are CPU bound
> 
> View attachment 2528798
> 
> 
> I got an even 36.0 ns latency when I closed TestMem. Not that 0.2 ns matter


Even 0.0001 ns counts!  Good job! Did you try manual IOL's 63-63, 8-8 or maybe 62-62, 8-8? 9's for 4400 are too much and you still have a room to cut some of the ns


----------



## Betroz

7empe said:


> Did you try manual IOL's 63-63, 8-8 or maybe 62-62, 8-8? 9's for 4400 are too much and you still have a room to cut some of the ns


I set my RTL and IOL manually yes, but they are that high because my IMC is not the best. I am already at the limit here. 1.35 IO and 1.45 SA voltage... and 1.55 vdimm. I do not wish to run any higher voltage than that. If I were to run under 1.30v for IO and SA, I would need to drop my RAM frequency A LOT. Probably 4133 Mhz or there about.


----------



## 7empe

Betroz said:


> I set my RTL and IOL manually yes, but they are that high because my IMC is not the best. I am already at the limit here. 1.35 IO and 1.45 SA voltage... and 1.55 vdimm. I do not wish to run any higher voltage than that. If I were to run under 1.30v for IO and SA, I would need to drop my RAM frequency A LOT. Probably 4133 Mhz or there about.


Uhm, what's your CPUs SP? Mine 10900KF has SP 56... Not sure if this score includes IMC quality, but all I can do is 5100 (no-avx) and 5000 (avx) all core at 1.37V. Not the best CPU either. But to drive 2x16 4533 I need only 1.335V SA. And I am on the 4-slot M12E.


----------



## Betroz

7empe said:


> Uhm, what's your CPUs SP? Mine 10900KF has SP 56...


SP63. 5100 allcore is the limit of my CPU and 360mm AIO cooling.


----------



## firewrath9

7empe said:


> The value matters. Not amount of values. Window length with size 0 does not exist.


except 0 means 1, because 0 doesnt exist....


7empe said:


> Is your assumption based on empirical data?


theres 1.6v xmp kits for b die
i've ran 1.65v for the past half year with no issues.
im fairly sure the phy will degrade far faster than the ram.


----------



## 7empe

firewrath9 said:


> except 0 means 1, because 0 doesnt exist....


0 * 1024 = 1024


----------



## Dreamhackian

What do you guys set for ODT Write_Delay, etc on ASUS?


----------



## firewrath9

7empe said:


> 0 * 1024 = 1024


yes.


----------



## sdmf74

Can you guys recommend a good mem kit for the 11900k/13 hero please?
I'm thinking about a 2x16gb kit this time.

What other kits with good aesthetics use as good IC's as the Royals?
I just can't put that bejeweled crap in my rig (no offence to the hundreds of people here im sure rocking them, they are great dimms but I just can't figure why g. skill wouldn't use them Ic's in the regular trident z RGB's as well?

I'm currently using some old trident Z RGB's a 4 dimm cas 16 3600 kit in gear 1 (oc'd to 3733 17 17 17 37). This b-die kit never could reach 4000mhz even on a couple older ROG formula boards with plenty of airflow. They are about 5 years old.

Edit: not sure if I should get around a 4000mhz kit and use in gear 1 with tighter timings (even if I have to bump the frequency down to 3866/3733) or if I should get a faster kit and use gear 2?

Any users with experience on using 11900k gear1/gear2 comments are welcome also


----------



## Dreamhackian

What do you guys run for ram cooling? can't find a ram waterblock so might zip tie two 80mms


----------



## The Pook

sdmf74 said:


> Can you guys recommend a good mem kit for the 11900k/13 hero please?
> I'm thinking about a 2x16gb kit this time.
> 
> What other kits with good aesthetics use as good IC's as the Royals?
> I just can't put that bejeweled crap in my rig (no offence to the hundreds of people here im sure rocking them, they are great dimms but I just can't figure why g. skill wouldn't use them Ic's in the regular trident z RGB's as well?
> 
> I'm currently using some old trident Z RGB's a 4 dimm cas 16 3600 kit in gear 1 (oc'd to 3733 17 17 17 37). This b-die kit never could reach 4000mhz even on a couple older ROG formula boards with plenty of airflow. They are about 5 years old.
> 
> Edit: not sure if I should get around a 4000mhz kit and use in gear 1 with tighter timings (even if I have to bump the frequency down to 3866/3733) or if I should get a faster kit and use gear 2?
> 
> Any users with experience on using 11900k gear1/gear2 comments are welcome also


They do "use them ICs" in regular RAM. Royals are just B-Die.

32GB DDR4-4400 CL17 B-Die for $279









F4-4400C17D-32GVK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Ripjaws V DDR4-4400 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.




www.gskill.com


----------



## sixty9sublime

Dreamhackian said:


> What do you guys run for ram cooling? can't find a ram waterblock so might zip tie two 80mms


I have a 60mm set as an intake at the top of the case running at 65%, keeps temps while gaming under 44C. Temps hit 49C in stress testing however since I set the fan to only ramp up as GPU temp increases. I already run front intake at 100% (2x200mm) so the 60mm is just barely audible.


----------



## shenosuke

anta777 said:


> *fenriquez*
> tREFI=65024 better
> 
> tREFIx9 * 1024 = Maximum time (in ticks) between updates.
> With tREFIx9 = 127, we get 127 * 1024 = 130048 clock cycles.
> This is a window into which (multiple times) an integer number of tREFI loops must fit.
> Hence tREFI is equal to:
> 130048/2 = 65024 (fit 2 tREFI cycles)
> 130048/3 = 43349
> 130048/4 = 32512
> 130048/5 = 26009
> 130048/6 = 21674
> 130048/7 = 18578
> 130048/8 = 16256 (8 tREFI cycles)


I want to say thank you @anta777 .

Before i had trefi set to 65534 and trefix9 127 on AUTO. After i change trefi to 65024 i got this results in shadow of tomb raider high settings bench.

With trefi in 65534 , my results were like 600~630 in max CPU render ( now 711) , and min CPU game 140~152 , now it is 167. All other variables of this bench have increased as well.

EDIT: just ignore part what i said before.
For some reason SOTR had a update today a 2018 game (add DLSS), maybe this update improved performance cuz i've re- tested using TREFI= 65534 and got same results as using 65024. i will play some games to atleast verify if frametime was improved using 65024 TREFI.


----------



## Falkentyne

shenosuke said:


> I want to say thank you @anta777 .
> 
> Before i had trefi set to 65534 and trefix9 127 on AUTO. After i change trefi to 65024 i got this results in shadow of tomb raider high settings bench.
> 
> With trefi in 65534 , my results were like 600~630 in max CPU render ( now 711) , and min CPU game 140~152 , now it is 167. All other variables of this bench have increased as well.
> 
> EDIT: just ignore part what i said before.
> For some reason SOTR had a update today a 2018 game (add DLSS), maybe this update improved performance cuz i've re- tested using TREFI= 65534 and got same results as using 65024. i will play some games to atleast verify if frametime was improved using 65024 TREFI.


There's no difference between 65535 and 65024. Don't believe urban myths.
If 65024 were better than 65535 it would be LESS than the margin of error.
You realize every two times you run any benchmark it's going to vary and give you different results, right?
You can run Port Royal twice and get 50 pts difference on each result with nothing else running on your computer.
You can run Cinebench R23 and have 50 points difference.


----------



## shenosuke

Falkentyne said:


> There's no difference between 65535 and 65024. Don't believe urban myths.
> If 65024 were better than 65535 it would be LESS than the margin of error.
> You realize every two times you run any benchmark it's going to vary and give you different results, right?
> You can run Port Royal twice and get 50 pts difference on each result with nothing else running on your computer.
> You can run Cinebench R23 and have 50 points difference.


I know that benchmarks can vary, it was because yesterday i did like 5 runs in SOTR benchmark and got 620~630 in max CPU render etc.. so a jump to 711 took my attention. But at the end of the day everything was just because a update that a 2018 game had today. what a coincidence.


----------



## ViTosS

shenosuke said:


> I know that benchmarks can vary, it was because yesterday i did like 5 runs in SOTR benchmark and got 620~630 in max CPU render etc.. so a jump to 711 took my attention. But at the end of the day everything was just because a update that a 2018 game had today. what a coincidence.


Maybe related to Alderlake? This update?


----------



## Kingofpici

Hi everyone

I used a lot my BIOS/CMOS Reset switch 

I am using Gskill 4000C17 32 GTRGB memory sticks
My i9 9900KS/evga Z390 dark wasn't booting with XMP profile and SA/IO set on "auto". I lowered those values and I managed to obtain that:










what do you think ?

If I change my ram and buy a F4-4400C17D-32GTRG kit, do you think I can hope a 4000c14 setup, or do I dream awake? Every time I went over 4000, black screen, even with higher SA/IO (but not over 1,25 for the moment)

I start in memory O/C and sorry for my english


----------



## YaqY

Kingofpici said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I used a lot my BIOS/CMOS Reset switch
> 
> I am using Gskill 4000C17 32 GTRGB memory sticks
> My i9 9900KS/evga Z390 dark wasn't booting with XMP profile and SA/IO set on "auto". I lowered those values and I managed to obtain that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what do you think ?
> 
> If I change my ram and buy a F4-4400C17D-32GTRG kit, do you think I can hope a 4000c14 setup, or do I dream awake? Every time I went over 4000, black screen, even with higher SA/IO (but not over 1,25 for the moment)
> 
> I start in memory O/C and sorry for my english


I think you should look at tuning sub timings for more performance before purchasing a new kit (Dual rank on z390 didn't clock high), the latency seems high and bandwidth seems too low for the frequency. You can increase vdimm as well, maybe can do cl15 with some more voltage if the ram temperatures are kept in control.


----------



## jeiselramos

7empe said:


> 1. Leave offsets to auto. Don't bother with disabling training algorithms (if you can lock the values & POST).
> 2. Put mid values to rise/falling slopes (e.g. 7).
> 3. Try to POST, if POST then check stability with some test. Measure the time to first failure.
> 4. BIOS, pick one group and go one direction up/down - e.g. data slopes. Try to differentiate (falling 6, raising 7)
> 5. Go to 4. If you found the longest period to crash/error - take a note of the setting.
> 6. Repeat the same with other groups - you you decided to go down, then continue the same direction with other groups.
> 
> In general there are two options - all slopes will have high values (like 9-13, 11-12 etc.) or all slopes wil take low values (5-7, 6-6 e.g.). Both can be stable, one can be especially beneficial for your config.
> 
> This is how I handle slopes. Very important is also to play with ODT skews. On Apex try 80(wr), 48(park), 40(nom) and try to tweak slightly from here (quite mobo, IMC, CPU specific stuff).
> 
> 
> Maybe since the computers became physics driven


When you find the right value of one group do you put them on auto and go for other group or lock the previous group? 

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


----------



## OnlyJiBiR

This is the best i can do and achieve 
Z490 Aorus Master - F6
2x8GB Single Rank @4513MhzCL16-17-17-40-410-2T (Patriot Viper Steel)
[email protected] Core 5022Mhz Uncore HT-Off.
BCLK OC (109.20x49=5350Mhz-109.20x46=5023Mhz-109.20x41.33=4513Mhz)


----------



## Braegnok

sdmf74 said:


> Can you guys recommend a good mem kit for the 11900k/13 hero please?
> I'm thinking about a 2x16gb kit this time.
> 
> What other kits with good aesthetics use as good IC's as the Royals?
> I just can't put that bejeweled crap in my rig (no offence to the hundreds of people here im sure rocking them, they are great dimms but I just can't figure why g. skill wouldn't use them Ic's in the regular trident z RGB's as well?
> 
> I'm currently using some old trident Z RGB's a 4 dimm cas 16 3600 kit in gear 1 (oc'd to 3733 17 17 17 37). This b-die kit never could reach 4000mhz even on a couple older ROG formula boards with plenty of airflow. They are about 5 years old.
> 
> Edit: not sure if I should get around a 4000mhz kit and use in gear 1 with tighter timings (even if I have to bump the frequency down to 3866/3733) or if I should get a faster kit and use gear 2?
> 
> Any users with experience on using 11900k gear1/gear2 comments are welcome also


With Asus Z590 board and RL chip,.. personally Hynix ram would be my #1 choice for high MHz gear 2 mode.

Currently I'm running G.SKILL F4-5333C22D-16GVK Hynix bars, Asus has done a fantastic job with the memory stability, training ability with the new Hynix kits.

I have only had this system up and running a few days, and I'm running everything on temporary air cooling with my old GPU, while waiting to flip everything over to water cooling next week.

Here are a few Hynix kit profiles. Please bear in mind these profiles are not tuned yet,.. all I did was punch in ram speed and let system train, or use XMP.










5333MHz XMP.










5866MHz default settings.


----------



## jeiselramos

4533 16-17-17-32 DRAM 1.62 SA 1.29 IO 1.34









Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

Nizzen said:


> Team T-Force XTREEM 4500c18 8pack edition @ 4700c17 1t
> Aida was done with the change to 53 on cpu
> 
> Last Aida 64 is max Cinebench r20 loop stable.


Long time ago LOL


----------



## Scorpion667

Howdy folks. I frequented this thread heavily in 2019 and managed to stabilize a 4200c16 CR1 memory OC at that time which has been stable since.

I am now trying and failing miserably to squeeze the last bit of performance out of this aging system. Please let me know if you see anything that stands out in my timings if you have a moment to spare. I am hardstuck; been trying everything I can think of all weekend. My findings are that 4400c16 CR2 and 4300c16 CR1 seem to be decent latency improvements but I couldn't stabilize them in TM5. I pumped VCCIO/SA to 1.3v and DRAM to 1.55v for testing and kept RAM under 40c via active cooling.

9900KS
Apex XI Z390 (Rampage tweak II enabled)
G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x8GB 4000Mhz C15 1.5v @ stock)
Active RAM cooling

Original OC (rock solid TM5, Karthu, GSAT and 2 years gaming):









Failed attempt at 4400c16 CR2:


----------



## sixty9sublime

Scorpion667 said:


> Howdy folks. I frequented this thread heavily in 2019 and managed to stabilize a 4200c16 CR1 memory OC at that time which has been stable since.
> 
> I am now trying and failing miserably to squeeze the last bit of performance out of this aging system. Please let me know if you see anything that stands out in my timings if you have a moment to spare. I am hardstuck; been trying everything I can think of all weekend. My findings are that 4400c16 CR2 and 4300c16 CR1 seem to be decent latency improvements but I couldn't stabilize them in TM5. I pumped VCCIO/SA to 1.3v and DRAM to 1.55v for testing and kept RAM under 40c via active cooling.
> 
> 9900KS
> Apex XI Z390 (Rampage tweak II enabled)
> G.Skill F4-4000C15D-16GVK (2x8GB 4000Mhz C15 1.5v @ stock)
> Active RAM cooling
> 
> Original OC (rock solid TM5, Karthu, GSAT and 2 years gaming):
> View attachment 2529953
> 
> 
> Failed attempt at 4400c16 CR2:
> View attachment 2529952


Moving past 4200 almost always requires higher SA/IO. Likely the only thing holding you back. Your timings are definitely reasonable.


----------



## Scorpion667

sixty9sublime said:


> Moving past 4200 almost always requires higher SA/IO. Likely the only thing holding you back. Your timings are definitely reasonable.


Thanks for checking. I'll keep trying to get this 4300c16 CR1 stable maybe my bumping SA/IO further. I feel like I'm close - no longer getting TM5 failures before the 20 min mark.

What do you guys thing about raising DMI, DRAM VTT and VPPDDR voltages? Or just keep raising IO/SA for now? I'll probably throw in the towel at 1.35V IO and 1.375 SA.

[edit] unfortunately even with 1.35 IO, 1.375 SA and 1.55v RAM I couldn't stabilize it (timings below). Unless someone has any ideas I'll throw in the towel. 4200 is stable with 1.12 IO and 1.2 SA so perhaps the IMC is like a wet dog - stinky.


----------



## Dreamhackian

in ASUS, is going for 10:10, 15:10, and 20:10 DRAM CLK period ratios to BCLK nCK the right thing to do?


----------



## sixty9sublime

Scorpion667 said:


> Thanks for checking. I'll keep trying to get this 4300c16 CR1 stable maybe my bumping SA/IO further. I feel like I'm close - no longer getting TM5 failures before the 20 min mark.





Scorpion667 said:


> Thanks for checking. I'll keep trying to get this 4300c16 CR1 stable maybe my bumping SA/IO further. I feel like I'm close - no longer getting TM5 failures before the 20 min mark.
> 
> What do you guys thing about raising DMI, DRAM VTT and VPPDDR voltages? Or just keep raising IO/SA for now? I'll probably throw in the towel at 1.35V IO and 1.375 SA.
> 
> [edit] unfortunately even with 1.35 IO, 1.375 SA and 1.55v RAM I couldn't stabilize it (timings below). Unless someone has any ideas I'll throw in the towel. 4200 is stable with 1.12 IO and 1.2 SA so perhaps the IMC is like a wet dog - stinky.
> View attachment 2529989


Have you found the correct values for rtt wr, park, & nom yet? Finding optimal values will go a long way towards stabilizing a profile.


----------



## Scorpion667

sixty9sublime said:


> Have you found the correct values for rtt wr, park, & nom yet? Finding optimal values will go a long way towards stabilizing a profile.


I looked at that thread and will keep it in mind. I just feel like there are other avenues left to pursue before I reach that stage in tweaking.

I think I figured out what my problem is. These sticks appear to love voltage.

4200c15 CR1 1.51v = instant 25+ errors in TM5 On multiple attempts and boots
4200c15 CR1 1.55v = no errors 10 minutes in
Based on that it's possible my IMC is decent, just power hungry sticks

I should have tried 1.57v+ RAM on those 4400 and 4300 runs. I don't know why I'm treading so carefully around these mental voltage blocks as I'm not actually afraid to break the gear. Especially not the RAM. Due for an upgrade anyway

[edit] WE HAVE A WINNER! I still need to make sure it's stable in Karthu and GSAT after lowering voltages but I'm very happy with this for now. I'll try 4300/4400 once I feel the need for additional torture.


----------



## sixty9sublime

Scorpion667 said:


> I looked at that thread and will keep it in mind. I just feel like there are other avenues left to pursue before I reach that stage in tweaking.
> 
> I think I figured out what my problem is. These sticks appear to love voltage.
> 
> 4200c15 CR1 1.51v = instant 25+ errors in TM5 On multiple attempts and boots
> 4200c15 CR1 1.55v = no errors 10 minutes in
> Based on that it's possible my IMC is decent, just power hungry sticks
> 
> I should have tried 1.57v+ RAM on those 4400 and 4300 runs. I don't know why I'm treading so carefully around these mental voltage blocks as I'm not actually afraid to break the gear. Especially not the RAM. Due for an upgrade anyway
> 
> [edit] WE HAVE A WINNER! I still need to make sure it's stable in Karthu and GSAT after lowering voltages but I'm very happy with this for now. I'll try 4300/4400 once I feel the need for additional torture.
> 
> View attachment 2530044


Glad to see you're making progress! In the future just remember finding optimal ODT values at a desired frequency + primary timings will make tightening timings and lowering voltages much easier.


----------



## Scorpion667

sixty9sublime said:


> Glad to see you're making progress! In the future just remember finding optimal ODT values at a desired frequency + primary timings will make tightening timings and lowering voltages much easier.


Thanks mister! I'll do further research on that for sure.

I read into it a bit and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the validation portion. I get that you have to find the usable range by excluding ones that don't boot. However for testing do you just find a RAM OC that is half stable and adjust ODT values until it's stable? Unless I misunderstood the procedure, there appears to be a lot of room for error in that approach. For example you get a lucky pass in TM5 then all your ODT testing is skewed from that point on. Like how does one even quantify how unstable something has to be for it to provide useful data in this this context?

It would be really nice to know what my default ODT values are at least but Asus like to hide that [emoji24]



anta777 said:


> My new config for tm5 - absolut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> absolutnew.cfg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bit.ly


I just wanted to give a big thank you for this config. For me this is the fastest solution to find memory instability. I had many overclocks pass Extreme1 (extremeanta777.cfg) but fail ABSOLUT before 20 minutes.


----------



## Scorpion667

Please delete - double post


----------



## Dreamhackian

Anyone know what causes GSAT erroring in identical spots? have tuned slopes, DRAM CLK, vdimm, vref, vtt


----------



## Scorpion667

As luck would have it I looped TM5 for 9 hours and got one error JUST before completion.

Raised TREFI from 32763 to 65535 - crash after 2.5 hours (TM5). Ambient temps slightly higher today so maybe it's temp sensitivity. Max RAM temp was 41.9 or 0.5 higher than last night's 9 hour run.

Raised TRFC from 320 to 384 - crash after 3 hours

Lowered TRFC back to 320 and TREFI to 65024. Raised TWR from 10 to 12 and retesting now. I think it's TWR or DIMM/SA voltage. What you guys think? Original settings below except IO is 1.21875 and SA 1.2375 (both 1.25v in HWINFO).


----------



## 7empe

Scorpion667 said:


> As luck would have it I looped TM5 for 9 hours and got one error JUST before completion.
> 
> Raised TREFI from 32763 to 65535 - crash after 2.5 hours (TM5). Ambient temps slightly higher today so maybe it's temp sensitivity. Max RAM temp was 41.9 or 0.5 higher than last night's 9 hour run.
> 
> Raised TRFC from 320 to 384 - crash after 3 hours
> 
> Lowered TRFC back to 320 and TREFI to 65024. Raised TWR from 10 to 12 and retesting now. I think it's TWR or DIMM/SA voltage. What you guys think? Original settings below except IO is 1.21875 and SA 1.2375 (both 1.25v in HWINFO).
> 
> View attachment 2530143


Could you run the 1usmus_v3 profile with test coverage increased to 200%? 5 loops would be enough to grab the error number.


----------



## xV Slayer

Falkentyne said:


> I don't think you know who I am.
> And I don't think anyone cares that you made a script for testmem5. No offense but you're no better than any of us, "Gen".
> Now if you''ll excuse me, I'm busy studying for a chess tournament. I do not have time for internet shenanigans. Bye.


Dude you really need to get over yourself. Just because you figured out how to put thermal pads on a 3090 FE doesn't make you anyone special. Especially not to call someone out like @anta777 who has done way more for this community than you while staying humble in the process.


----------



## Dreamhackian

Anyone know about ES Bdie chips and how well they may/may not perform in OC?


----------



## Nizzen

Dreamhackian said:


> Anyone know about ES Bdie chips and how well they may/may not perform in OC?


random


----------



## Scorpion667

7empe said:


> Could you run the 1usmus_v3 profile with test coverage increased to 200%? 5 loops would be enough to grab the error number.


Done. It didn't error =/
Maybe the anta777s "Absolut" profile is too nutty?

I did notice if I bump up the vDIMM from 1.55v to 1.6 I get errors almost instantly. Seems like there's some voltage sensitivity even with active cooling. Maybe the heatsink is not touching one of the ICs fully?


----------



## sixty9sublime

Hoping to get some help regarding ODT values and their significance if anyone has a moment. 

Is it be beneficial to prioritize lower ODT values? Does it even matter? I've been using 80-48-40 (WR-PARK-NOM) for some time now but heard others mention that running lower values make lowering VDIMM/SA/IO voltages much easier. Currently experimenting with 80-34-40, guess I'll know soon enough


----------



## Scorpion667

Would the Memory run cooler if I take off the heatepreaders provided I have active cooling 24/7? I'm familiar with the procedure and risks etc.

It's an Apex board so there's only two Ram sticks really close together. Airflow has a hard time getting between the sticks I feel. It's A2 single rank so that means one stick has the ICs facing the middle of the two stick hotbox. Temps aren't terrible (~41.5c) in TM5 stress test but I'm experiencing errors when VDIMM is above 1.55v which I'd like to address.


----------



## nikolaus85

I trying to stabilize 4533mhz cl 16 17 17 on the unify with i7 10700k and 2x8 4400 c19 patriot. Passed tm5 absolute but getting crazy to pass Gsat. Do you guys have any suggestion for me? Setting the odts on 80 0 34 gives less errors (1st time i tried Gsat errored after 2000 seconds). Tried increasing vcore, vcssa and vccio, as well ram vref, but nothing. Is there anything wrong with my timings? Any advice will be appreciated.


----------



## 7empe

Scorpion667 said:


> Would the Memory run cooler if I take off the heatepreaders provided I have active cooling 24/7? I'm familiar with the procedure and risks etc.
> 
> It's an Apex board so there's only two Ram sticks really close together. Airflow has a hard time getting between the sticks I feel. It's A2 single rank so that means one stick has the ICs facing the middle of the two stick hotbox. Temps aren't terrible (~41.5c) in TM5 stress test but I'm experiencing errors when VDIMM is above 1.55v which I'd like to address.


I have an ordinary 120 mm fan blowing on the 2x16GB dual rank sticks. Max die temp is around 41C for VDIMM 1.62V during TM5. They are in the A2 and B2 slots, so there is one slot of the space between them. Getting errors above 1.55V may be related not only with the temps, but also with wrong ODTs, DRAM VTT and VREF, etc. What’s your VREF multiplier? VTT on Auto?


----------



## Scorpion667

7empe said:


> I have an ordinary 120 mm fan blowing on the 2x16GB dual rank sticks. Max die temp is around 41C for VDIMM 1.62V during TM5. They are in the A2 and B2 slots, so there is one slot of the space between them. Getting errors above 1.55V may be related not only with the temps, but also with wrong ODTs, DRAM VTT and VREF, etc. What’s your VREF multiplier? VTT on Auto?



ODTs, VTT, VREF multiplier are all on auto as controlled by the Asus bios.

Would you be able to recommend some starting values based on 1.6 desired vDIMM as well as which direction to adjust each one in for increased stability?

Preliminary research suggests VREF is a multiplier for VDIMM to get the VTT value? For example 1.6 vDIMM x 0.5 vREF = 0.8 VTT if I understand correctly. Should the end goal be to have the VTT higher than 50% of vDIMM? 

As for ODT values I did some reading however an still unclear on a couple things. Are they supposed to be identical between the two channels? If not, should CHB (furthest DIMM) have a lower or higher value than CHA? Start with like 80-48-0 both channels and randomly tweak each value up/down till TM5 stops producing errors at 1.6 VDIMM?


----------



## 7empe

Scorpion667 said:


> ODTs, VTT, VREF multiplier are all on auto as controlled by the Asus bios.
> 
> Would you be able to recommend some starting values based on 1.6 desired vDIMM as well as which direction to adjust each one in for increased stability?
> 
> Preliminary research suggests VREF is a multiplier for VDIMM to get the VTT value? For example 1.6 vDIMM x 0.5 vREF = 0.8 VTT if I understand correctly. Should the end goal be to have the VTT higher than 50% of vDIMM?
> 
> As for ODT values I did some reading however an still unclear on a couple things. Are they supposed to be identical between the two channels? If not, should CHB (furthest DIMM) have a lower or higher value than CHA? Start with like 80-48-0 both channels and randomly tweak up and down till it stops giving errors?


You're on Apex, I am on Extreme 4-dimmer, but from what I saw is that both boards like ODTs 80-40-48 (WR-NOM-PARK). I would start from that. I would not deviate these values for different channels - I tried that without success. 0 for Nominal did not help me for higher frequencies while for the lower ones, like 4400C16 it was ok (higher tolerance for not ideal settings).

The question is what do you want to achieve with going for the high VDIMM? Particular frequency? Timings?

Higher voltage means more signal noise, more reflections which means more difficulties to run it stable. VTT and VREF are two different things. VTT is a voltage that drives impedance of the memory bus on the ODT resistors, while VREF is for control bus lines and terminates the voltage to distinguish two levels - below VTT = 0, above VTT = 1. Both on Auto are by default set to half of the VDIMM with the granularity of the smallest possible increment. However to achieve better signal quality, sometimes it helps to deviate VREF from the defult 0.5xVDIMM. It depends on the frequency and VDIMM itself. Higher frequency = higher VDIMM = lower VREF multiplier. Example: for 4400C16 I use VDIMM=1.52V with VREF=0.515x. While for 4600C16 I have VDIMM=1.62V with VREF=0.495x. Between I have for example 4500C16 with VDIMM=1.57V and VREF=0.510x...

Finally... slopes. These are crucial too!


----------



## sixty9sublime

7empe said:


> You're on Apex, I am on Extreme 4-dimmer, but from what I saw is that both boards like ODTs 80-40-48 (WR-NOM-PARK). I would start from that. I would not deviate these values for different channels - I tried that without success. 0 for Nominal did not help me for higher frequencies while for the lower ones, like 4400C16 it was ok (higher tolerance for not ideal settings).
> 
> The question is what do you want to achieve with going for the high VDIMM? Particular frequency? Timings?
> 
> Higher voltage means more signal noise, more reflections which means more difficulties to run it stable. VTT and VREF are two different things. VTT is a voltage that drives impedance of the memory bus on the ODT resistors, while VREF is for control bus lines and terminates the voltage to distinguish two levels - below VTT = 0, above VTT = 1. Both on Auto are by default set to half of the VDIMM with the granularity of the smallest possible increment. However to achieve better signal quality, sometimes it helps to deviate VREF from the defult 0.5xVDIMM. It depends on the frequency and VDIMM itself. Higher frequency = higher VDIMM = lower VREF multiplier. Example: for 4400C16 I use VDIMM=1.52V with VREF=0.515x. While for 4600C16 I have VDIMM=1.62V with VREF=0.495x. Between I have for example 4500C16 with VDIMM=1.57V and VREF=0.510x...
> 
> Finally... slopes. These are crucial too!


I've found the opposite to be true on the z490 Unify. At 4400C16 the board likes a much lower multiplier (.48x) for VREF. Going much higher leads to quick instability. Have yet to pursue much higher than 4400 however.


----------



## 7empe

sixty9sublime said:


> I've found the opposite to be true on the z490 Unify. At 4400C16 the board likes a much lower multiplier (.48x) for VREF. Going much higher leads to quick instability. Have yet to pursue much higher than 4400 however.


Yeah, it is the board, IMC, sticks specific thing.


----------



## Scorpion667

7empe said:


> You're on Apex, I am on Extreme 4-dimmer, but from what I saw is that both boards like ODTs 80-40-48 (WR-NOM-PARK). I would start from that. I would not deviate these values for different channels - I tried that without success. 0 for Nominal did not help me for higher frequencies while for the lower ones, like 4400C16 it was ok (higher tolerance for not ideal settings).
> 
> The question is what do you want to achieve with going for the high VDIMM? Particular frequency? Timings?
> 
> Higher voltage means more signal noise, more reflections which means more difficulties to run it stable. VTT and VREF are two different things. VTT is a voltage that drives impedance of the memory bus on the ODT resistors, while VREF is for control bus lines and terminates the voltage to distinguish two levels - below VTT = 0, above VTT = 1. Both on Auto are by default set to half of the VDIMM with the granularity of the smallest possible increment. However to achieve better signal quality, sometimes it helps to deviate VREF from the defult 0.5xVDIMM. It depends on the frequency and VDIMM itself. Higher frequency = higher VDIMM = lower VREF multiplier. Example: for 4400C16 I use VDIMM=1.52V with VREF=0.515x. While for 4600C16 I have VDIMM=1.62V with VREF=0.495x. Between I have for example 4500C16 with VDIMM=1.57V and VREF=0.510x...
> 
> Finally... slopes. These are crucial too!


This is fantastic info! Thanks!

It appears that setting ODTs and VREF to 0.495x has enabled me to use 1.6 vDIMM for for about 15 minutes before TM5 throws errors where as previously it would do so after 10 seconds without exception. So things appear to be heading in the right direction.

With that said, do you recommend for VTT to be higher or lower than vDIMM x 0.5 considering ~1.6 vDIMM?

My goal is to achieve the lowest possible Latency which for my system (9900ks/apex z390/4000c15 ram) appears to be 4300c15 2T / 4300c16 1T / 4400c16 2T. However stabilizing those has proven difficult even with loosened secondary/tertiary timings hence why I was looking at raising vDIMM. The behaviors I observed in last 5 days tweaking constantly is that vDIMM is what's holding me back. 

There is much more testing to be done!


----------



## 7empe

Scorpion667 said:


> This is fantastic info! Thanks!
> 
> It appears that setting ODTs and VREF to 0.495x has enabled me to use 1.6 vDIMM for for about 15 minutes before TM5 throws errors where as previously it would do so after 10 seconds without exception. So things appear to be heading in the right direction.
> 
> With that said, do you recommend for VTT to be higher or lower than vDIMM x 0.5 considering ~1.6 vDIMM?
> 
> My goal is to achieve the lowest possible Latency which for my system (9900ks/apex z390/4000c15 ram) appears to be 4300c15 2T / 4300c16 1T / 4400c16 2T. However stabilizing those has proven difficult even with loosened secondary/tertiary timings hence why I was looking at raising vDIMM. The behaviors I observed in last 5 days tweaking constantly is that vDIMM is what's holding me back.
> 
> There is much more testing to be done!


If latency is your target, then: tXP=4, PPD=0 (disabled), tightening RTLs. Did you do that already?


----------



## Scorpion667

7empe said:


> If latency is your target, then: tXP=4, PPD=0 (disabled), tightening RTLs. Did you do that already?


tXP and PPD no longer tunable for z370/z390 as MemtweakIT is broken on recent Win10 versions above 1909. Confirmed on ROG forums with many sharing the same experience. 

I was gonna leave RTL/IOL tweaking for last once I get my timings/frequency right. As a quick test I was able to get IOLs to 4 so there's potential there.

I stabilized 4266c16 CR1 which is a start. I'll keep poking around!

[edit] When comparing multiple TM5 run screenshots it appears that using 0.52 vREF at 1.48 vDIMM dropped the RAM temps just over 1c with identical ambients. The plot thickens [/edit]


----------



## West.

Scorpion667 said:


> tXP and PPD no longer tunable for z370/z390 as MemtweakIT is broken on recent Win10 versions above 1909. Confirmed on ROG forums with many sharing the same experience.
> 
> I was gonna leave RTL/IOL tweaking for last once I get my timings/frequency right. As a quick test I was able to get IOLs to 4 so there's potential there.
> 
> I stabilized 4266c16 CR1 which is a start. I'll keep poking around!
> 
> [edit] When comparing multiple TM5 run screenshots it appears that using 0.52 vREF at 1.48 vDIMM dropped the RAM temps just over 1c with identical ambients. The plot thickens [/edit]


Got a new 4800c17 kit few days ago and did some quick bios number crunching. Currently running 4600 c17 with tm5 stable (will do more stress test once i found the sweet spot of frequency / latency)

Using old skew settings of 80-48-0 from previous setup, 4600 c17 boot easily on this mobo and cpu (mediocre imc). 










Proceed to tighten the RTL IOL a bit, has to bring up VCCIO to 1.33sth V to be stable. 










The above settings can tolerate up to 57c, haven't tried anything higher than that. I went straight to gaming after I have this OC TM5 "stable" and no crash after a long ass 8 hrs gaming section on Vermintide 2 and Back 4 Blood. Air cooled 3090 was cooking my RAM tho...

For 24/7 daily oc, I'm considering call it a day and leave it like that or do more tuning e.g. VREFI / slope to achieve a better oc like 4700c17 or 4600c16. But I'm already at 1.33IO 1.35SA 1.55 vdimm. Do you think it's worth the time to push it further ?


----------



## bscool

@West. Did you try 1t? It will reduce latency a little and increase copy if you can run it. I have a couple kit that would do 4533 1t stable on z390 Apex. Been a while but I think vdimm was 1.55 to 1.6 range.

My IMC on 9900k & 990kf was weak as they could barely boot past 4600-4700 but the same stick will boot 4800-5000+ on z490/z590 Apex/Unify X.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter but if you want to play more try 1t.


----------



## West.

bscool said:


> @West. Did you try 1t? It will reduce latency a little and increase copy if you can run it. I have a couple kit that would do 4533 1t stable on z390 Apex. Been a while but I think vdimm was 1.55 to 1.6 range.
> 
> My IMC on 9900k & 990kf was weak as they could barely boot past 4600-4700 but the same stick will boot 4800-5000+ on z490/z590 Apex/Unify X.
> 
> At the end of the day it doesn't matter but if you want to play more try 1t.


Thanks for the suggestion mate. 

I boot 4700-4800 without trouble on my initial test with loose - ish timing but stabilize on such high frequency with decent latency require very high IO SA voltage which I did not feel comfortable with running it 24/7. My goal is finding the optimal setup within 1.4v IO SA and 1.6 vdimm (if possible? xD) with high(ish) temp tolerance.

Do you remember what IO and SA voltage you were running ? Didn't think of 1t since I was chasing high frequency on my initial test. Will give 4533+ 1t a try when I have time. I'm thinking about will tighter timing i.e. 4600 - 16 17 17 36 2t better than 4533 17 17 36 1t?


----------



## bscool

@West. I think it was between 1.35 to 1.4 for io/sa as I didn't run higher than that on z390.

Maybe you can even get 4600 1t working. I have seen a couple people get 4700c17-17-17 1t stable.


----------



## Scorpion667

West. said:


> Got a new 4800c17 kit few days ago and did some quick bios number crunching. Currently running 4600 c17 with tm5 stable (will do more stress test once i found the sweet spot of frequency / latency)
> 
> Using old skew settings of 80-48-0 from previous setup, 4600 c17 boot easily on this mobo and cpu (mediocre imc).
> 
> View attachment 2530391
> 
> 
> Proceed to tighten the RTL IOL a bit, has to bring up VCCIO to 1.33sth V to be stable.
> 
> View attachment 2530392
> 
> 
> The above settings can tolerate up to 57c, haven't tried anything higher than that. I went straight to gaming after I have this OC TM5 "stable" and no crash after a long ass 8 hrs gaming section on Vermintide 2 and Back 4 Blood. Air cooled 3090 was cooking my RAM tho...
> 
> For 24/7 daily oc, I'm considering call it a day and leave it like that or do more tuning e.g. VREFI / slope to achieve a better oc like 4700c17 or 4600c16. But I'm already at 1.33IO 1.35SA 1.55 vdimm. Do you think it's worth the time to push it further ?



Nice kit! Is that the F4-4800C17D-16GTR/GVK? I was looking at that as well as the 4000c14

I stole your timings for a quick run and to my surprise I was able to pass TM5 at 4400c17 CR1. Anything higher was no go even with CR2. Sooooo... Thanks!


----------



## 7empe

West. said:


> Got a new 4800c17 kit few days ago and did some quick bios number crunching. Currently running 4600 c17 with tm5 stable (will do more stress test once i found the sweet spot of frequency / latency)
> 
> Using old skew settings of 80-48-0 from previous setup, 4600 c17 boot easily on this mobo and cpu (mediocre imc).
> 
> View attachment 2530391
> 
> 
> Proceed to tighten the RTL IOL a bit, has to bring up VCCIO to 1.33sth V to be stable.
> 
> View attachment 2530392
> 
> 
> The above settings can tolerate up to 57c, haven't tried anything higher than that. I went straight to gaming after I have this OC TM5 "stable" and no crash after a long ass 8 hrs gaming section on Vermintide 2 and Back 4 Blood. Air cooled 3090 was cooking my RAM tho...
> 
> For 24/7 daily oc, I'm considering call it a day and leave it like that or do more tuning e.g. VREFI / slope to achieve a better oc like 4700c17 or 4600c16. But I'm already at 1.33IO 1.35SA 1.55 vdimm. Do you think it's worth the time to push it further ?


The 57c is quite high, but if stable then I would try to go further. Up to 1.6 VDIMM temps should not go much higher. I have 3090 with water block so no heat gets directly on sticks and therefore their temps are up to 41c for 1.6V. However temp delta caused by the VDIMM itself is not that huge - up to 39c for 1.53 VDIMM. I use zip-tied 120 mm fan to involve some air flow through the sticks though.
My mental limit for these voltages are 1.6 VDIMM, 1.36 VCCIO, 1.40 VCCSA. However my 10900kf has crap SP and IMC is simply poor. That’s enough however to drive 2x16GB dr at 4533c16.


----------



## 2500k_2

bscool said:


> @West. I think it was between 1.35 to 1.4 for io/sa as I didn't run higher than that on z390.
> 
> Maybe you can even get 4600 1t working. I have seen a couple people get 4700c17-17-17 1t stable.





Spoiler: 4800_cl17_T1























Or even so.


Spoiler: 4700_cl16_cr1














or so


Spoiler: 4900_c19_T1


----------



## Scorpion667

I wanted to give a big shoutout to for all the people that helped and inspired throughout this 7 day journey of overclocking this kit on Z390 zzZzZZz

These resulting OC exceeded my expectations wildly and I couldn't be happier (especially on a Friday night after a long work week, enjoying a beer). This helped me fight the urge to upgrade especially now with 12900K out!


----------



## kevintuna

Hi there. Got some Samsung b die 4266mhz c17 ram today. 16gb x 2, on z590 msi tomahawk.

Looking for some timing and voltage recommendations.

Thanks


----------



## owikh84

Final tests before DDR5  
New Royal Elite is stronger than my previous B-die (TridentZ RGB 4266C19).

*10900K SP94 5.1 all-core GHz LLC6
M13E BIOS 1102
G.Skill Trident Z Royal Elite F4-3600C14-16GTES (2 kits)

4x8GB 4133 CL17-17-17-37-2T @1.40V
VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.25/1.20V
TXP 4, PPD 0*


*4x8GB 4133 CL16-16-16-36-2T @1.45V
VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.35/1.30V
TXP 4, PPD 0*


*4x8GB 4266 CL17-18-18-38-2T @1.45V
VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.40/1.30V
TXP 4, PPD 0*


----------



## Dreamhackian

Thoughts on GSKILL DR bdie bins? Between 4400 17-18-18 and 4000 16-16-16.


----------



## BotSkill

Dreamhackian said:


> Thoughts on GSKILL DR bdie bins? Between 4400 17-18-18 and 4000 16-16-16.


Tale 4400c17 or If you can find 4000c14 bin.
4000c16 is not a very good choice, lot of people could not stabilise xmp without aditional voltaj.

Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 4a (5G) folosind Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

BotSkill said:


> Tale 4400c17 or If you can find 4000c14 bin.
> 4000c16 is not a very good choice, lot of people could not stabilise xmp without aditional voltaj.
> 
> Trimis de pe al meu Pixel 4a (5G) folosind Tapatalk


With my 4000C16 i can do 4600 16-17-17-32 stable tm5 Absolut without mess with odt and slopes, It depends on luck

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Dreamhackian

jeiselramos said:


> With my 4000C16 i can do 4600 16-17-17-32 stable tm5 Absolut without mess with odt and slopes, It depends on luck
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


right, i bought them to try and do 4600c16. my current IMC can't do it. slopes dont help, dont drop imc voltage at all. my new chp should be better


----------



## The Pook

Dreamhackian said:


> Thoughts on GSKILL DR bdie bins? Between 4400 17-18-18 and 4000 16-16-16.


I'd go 4400 17-18-18, I've got the loser bin (4266 16-17-17, F4-4266C17D-32GVKB) and it does 4300 15-16-16. 

no amount of voltage or loosened timings can get >4300 stable though, but I think my board (maybe CPU) is the issue.


----------



## bscool

Dreamhackian said:


> Thoughts on GSKILL DR bdie bins? Between 4400 17-18-18 and 4000 16-16-16.


I had both and lotto. I would buy whichever is cheaper. Also have 4000c14 and for so much more $$ not worth it unless you just want to play and get every last .00000ns


----------



## 7empe

Dreamhackian said:


> Thoughts on GSKILL DR bdie bins? Between 4400 17-18-18 and 4000 16-16-16.


My set of 2x16GB DR (F4-4000C16-16GTZF4-4000C16-16GTZR) went from XMP 4000-16-19-19-39 1.40V to 4400-16-17-17-35 1.525V on M12E board. Other working profiles:

4500-16-17-17-35 1.57V
4533-16-17-17-35 1.585V


----------



## Hequaqua

I moved to a 32gb set of ram. I have my Royal Z set up for sale. 4000CL17(B-Die), I run them at 4300CL17. All the info is in the sale thread.

G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 16GB F4-4000C17D-16GTRSB


----------



## Dreamhackian

At what point does vdimm become dangerous to the comet lake IMC? I've heard 2.3v for PHY degradation. Got some samsung edie I wanna test out and want to know what vdimm to stop at. Ambient.


----------



## 2500k_2

Dreamhackian said:


> At what point does vdimm become dangerous to the comet lake IMC? I've heard 2.3v for PHY degradation. Got some samsung edie I wanna test out and want to know what vdimm to stop at. Ambient.


vddq = 1.5 V max according to Jedec
VrefCA = 0.6x vddq = 0.9 V (max according to Jedec), in the datasheet of the intel controller, the maximum vrefca = 0.6x vddq is also allowed.
That is, with the usual BIOS setting, when VrefCA = 0.5x vddq, VDRAM <= 1.8 V, in order to meet the Jedec standards.
And if, at the same time, vrefca = 0.49x vddq (allowed by Jedec) in the BIOS, then the safe Vdram can be even higher = 1.837 V.
Conclusion: voltage for memory <= 1.8 V is not dangerous for the processor controller _anta777_*©*


----------



## ViTosS

Just noticed by now that my reference DRAM clock (something like that) is at 133 (AUTO) instead of 100, does that make a difference using 133 or 100 in terms of OC capability?


----------



## The Pook

ViTosS said:


> Just noticed by now that my reference DRAM clock (something like that) is at 133 (AUTO) instead of 100, does that make a difference using 133 or 100 in terms of OC capability?


doesn't it just change the divider for what RAM speed you can run? 

if you want some of the "odd" frequencies like DDR4-4300 then you don't get the option with 133. just set it to auto and you should get them all and it'll automagically change between 100/133 depending on what DRAM frequency you pick. 

don't believe there's a performance penalty and I haven't noticed one being harder to clock than the other.


----------



## jm_bmw

Hi everyone,

I got this kit in mid 2020's and tried some OC to test, 3800Mhz worked but I couldn’t do 4000… since then I left it at 3600 stock but now wondering if it will do at least 4000 w decent timings. 
Any advices on what I should try?

Setup/settings:
9900KF 4.7Ghz stock
Aorus Z390 Elite
4x8GB Crucial Ballistix 3600Mhz 16-18-18-38 (Micron E-die 19nm) PN: C9BKV

BIOS:
CPU fixed at 1.265v, 47 ratio (no boost), 43 ring, LLC turbo, all c-states disabled
VCCIO/SA: 0.950v/1.050v default
DRAM voltage/training: 1.35v
Not on XMP, just set XMP timings manually
Memory enhancement settings: normal
Stock 3600Mhz 16 18 18 38
tRFC 631
CR2
All other timings on auto

AIDA64 memory R/W/C/Latency benchmark: 51k / 53k / 49k / 47~49.0ns


----------



## .651955

2500k_2 said:


> VDDDQ = 1.5 V max according to Jedec
> VrefCA = 0.6xVDDDQ = 0.9 V (max according to Jedec), in the datasheet of the intel controller, the maximum vrefca = 0.6xVdddq is also allowed.
> That is, with the usual BIOS setting, when VrefCA = 0.5xVDDDQ, VDRAM <= 1.8 V, in order to meet the Jedec standards.
> And if, at the same time, vrefca = 0.49xvdddq (allowed by Jedec) in the BIOS, then the safe Vdram can be even higher = 1.837 V.
> Conclusion: voltage for memory <= 1.8 V is not dangerous for the processor controller _anta777_*©*


At what frequencies or what frequency range does a user need to manually adjust VDDDQ and VrefCA?


----------



## 2500k_2

IntoTheOC613 said:


> At what frequencies or what frequency range does a user need to manually adjust VDDDQ and VrefCA?


With extreme overclocking, at the border of the capabilities of the memory, memory controller, or motherboard.
As far as I know, vddq cannot be adjusted on ddr4 (maybe I'm wrong, correct me) / it only has a dependency on vdd
but you will have such an opportunity from ddr5 
Vrefca many bios provide the ability to regulate - it's just a signal voltage. by adjusting it, you shift the scale towards the memory or memory controller. (for example vref> 0.5 vdd (max 0.6 jedec) makes it easier for the memory controller but more difficult for the memory, or vice versa when vref <0.5 vdd (min 0.49 jedec) we make the memory lighter (you may even be able to reduce dram by 0.005v) but make the memory controller harder.) Therefore, it is best not to touch it. 0.5 is the default value.

My friend, you don't need to worry about these voltages during normal memory overclocking.


ViTosS said:


> Just noticed by now that my reference DRAM clock (something like that) is at 133 (AUTO) instead of 100, does that make a difference using 133 or 100 in terms of OC capability?


The multiplier 133 will probably be easier for the memory controller.
for example, in rockelake, the 3600 Gear 1 is easy to train from the 133 base frequency, since a smaller memory multiplier will be used 133 * 27 = 3600 1.2-1.25 in sa io2
for a base frequency of 100, we need a multiplier of 36
36 * 100 = 3600 only this will be impossible, since the memory controller is not that strong. even at 1.65 V sa io2 
but this is for rocketlake.
For skylake , I can't answer exactly, but I know that 4800 out of the base frequency of 100 is very difficult to stabilize, it's simpler 133 * 36 = 4800.


----------



## .651955

2500k_2 said:


> With extreme overclocking, at the border of the capabilities of the memory, memory controller, or motherboard.
> As far as I know, vddq cannot be adjusted on ddr4 (maybe I'm wrong, correct me) / it only has a dependency on vdd
> but you will have such an opportunity from ddr5
> Vrefca many bios provide the ability to regulate - it's just a signal voltage. by adjusting it, you shift the scale towards the memory or memory controller. (for example vref> 0.5 vdd (max 0.6 jedec) makes it easier for the memory controller but more difficult for the memory, or vice versa when vref <0.5 vdd (min 0.49 jedec) we make the memory lighter (you may even be able to reduce dram by 0.005v) but make the memory controller harder.) Therefore, it is best not to touch it. 0.5 is the default value.
> 
> My friend, you don't need to worry about these voltages during normal memory overclocking.
> 
> 
> The multiplier 133 will probably be easier for the memory controller.
> for example, in rockelake, the 3600 Gear 1 is easy to train from the 133 base frequency, since a smaller memory multiplier will be used 133 * 27 = 3600 1.2-1.25 in sa io2
> for a base frequency of 100, we need a multiplier of 36
> 36 * 100 = 3600 only this will be impossible, since the memory controller is not that strong. even at 1.65 V sa io2
> but this is for rocketlake.
> For skylake , I can't answer exactly, but I know that 4800 out of the base frequency of 100 is very difficult to stabilize, it's simpler 133 * 36 = 4800.


Understood, thank you for your reply. I had another question.
I'm preparing to tune my i9 on an asus z490 apex xii motherboard, What is the general range of vccsa/vccio required for ddr4-4800mhz samsung b-die? For reference, I'll be using the ddr4-4800mhz 17-19-19-39 2x8GB kit. Will be looking to tighten the primaries to c17 flat with tightened subs or roll with the stock xmp primaries 17-19-19-39 with tightened subs.

Also, can someone tell me which official asus z490 apex xii bios I should use?


----------



## 2500k_2

IntoTheOC613 said:


> Understood, thank you for your reply. I had another question.
> I'm preparing to tune my i9 on an asus z490 apex xii motherboard, What is the general range of vccsa/vccio required for ddr4-4800mhz samsung b-die? For reference, I'll be using the ddr4-4800mhz 17-19-19-39 2x8GB kit. Will be looking to tighten the primaries to c17 flat with tightened subs or roll with the stock xmp primaries 17-19-19-39 with tightened subs.
> 
> Also, can someone tell me which official asus z490 apex xii bios I should use?


I congratulate you. You have a great kit. high bin. But I have to warn you that using such a high frequency will require a high level of sa io /
Unfortunately, I cannot tell you exactly how much you need sa io as it depends on the silicone lottery. some silicon needs a little more, some a little less.
but in the case of the 4800 you definitely need about 1.5v.
if I were you, I would go down 100 lower and stabilize 4700 17 17 cr1 / in performance you will not lose much, but sa io will definitely be smaller.
For the best bios, you need to turn to @Nizzen He used 4700 17 17 cr1 daily for apex 12.


----------



## .651955

2500k_2 said:


> I congratulate you. You have a great kit. high bin. But I have to warn you that using such a high frequency will require a high level of sa io /
> Unfortunately, I cannot tell you exactly how much you need sa io as it depends on the silicone lottery. some silicon needs a little more, some a little less.
> but in the case of the 4800 you definitely need about 1.5v.
> if I were you, I would go down 100 lower and stabilize 4700 17 17 cr1 / in performance you will not lose much, but sa io will definitely be smaller.
> For the best bios, you need to turn to @Nizzen He used 4700 17 17 cr1 daily for apex 12.


Thank you very much for the information, appreciate it.


----------



## .651955

@Nizzen

Hello. Which official asus bios should I use for gskill 2x8gb ddr4-4800mhz 17-19-19-39 1.6v ram kit on the z490 rog maximus apex xii motherboard with an i9 cpu? Once my CPU/cache oc is out of the way i'll be looking to tune this kit to either cas 17 flat 1T with tuned subs or stay at 17-19-19-39 with 1T and tuned subs. Just waiting for a fresh ssd to arrive + fresh windows + test bench so i am trying to collect all the information I need in advance so I can be ready to tune right away.

I have some questions about doing this.

This is my first asus motherboard so I am not familiar with memory overclocking on this motherboard.


Should I enable xmp or should I leave xmp disabled? If i leave xmp disabled, does the motherboard automatically set vccsa/vccio for a chosen frequency?
Do i enable trace centering from the start?
How do i go about getting tight rtls/iols?
Is there a specific order of operations for using these features?
I'm not sure what I need to know etc.

Also, is there any windows 10 services I need to disable for daily stability or can I just put the system together + install windows 10 from an official windows 10 USB/enter activation code + install z490 apex chipset drivers + install nvidia gpu driver + proceed with windows 10 updates + set high performance power plan before I start tuning?

Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Nizzen

IntoTheOC613 said:


> @Nizzen
> 
> Hello. Which official asus bios should I use for gskill 2x8gb ddr4-4800mhz 17-19-19-39 1.6v ram kit on the z490 rog maximus apex xii motherboard with an i9 cpu? Once my CPU/cache oc is out of the way i'll be looking to tune this kit to either cas 17 flat 1T with tuned subs or stay at 17-19-19-39 with 1T and tuned subs. Just waiting for a fresh ssd to arrive + fresh windows + test bench so i am trying to collect all the information I need in advance so I can be ready to tune right away.
> 
> I have some questions about doing this.
> 
> This is my first asus motherboard so I am not familiar with memory overclocking on this motherboard.
> 
> 
> Should I enable xmp or should I leave xmp disabled? If i leave xmp disabled, does the motherboard automatically set vccsa/vccio for a chosen frequency?
> Do i enable trace centering from the start?
> How do i go about getting tight rtls/iols?
> Is there a specific order of operations for using these features?
> I'm not sure what I need to know etc.
> 
> Also, is there any windows 10 services I need to disable for daily stability or can I just put the system together + install windows 10 from an official windows 10 USB/enter activation code + install z490 apex chipset drivers + install nvidia gpu driver + proceed with windows 10 updates + set high performance power plan before I start tuning?
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.


Bios 0088 was very good for me


----------



## .651955

Nizzen said:


> Bios 0088 was very good for me


I just looked on the asus website and it's not listed so i'm going to assume that's a tester bios is that correct? Which retail bios on the website should I use?

Also,
Should I enable xmp or should I leave xmp disabled? If i leave xmp disabled, does the motherboard automatically set vccsa/vccio for a chosen frequency?
Do i enable trace centering from the start?
How do i go about getting tight rtls/iols?
Is there a specific order of operations for using these features?
I'm not sure what I need to know etc.

Also, is there any windows 10 services I need to disable for daily stability or can I just put the system together + install windows 10 from an official windows 10 USB/enter activation code + install z490 apex chipset drivers + install nvidia gpu driver + proceed with windows 10 updates + set high performance power plan before I start tuning? 

Thank you for your time.


----------



## .651955

My SSDs and windows 10 USB arrive in 5ish days. Could someone please give me the following information so I can configure my system when the ssds/windows 10 arrives? 


Which _official_ retail asus bios should I use for gskill 2x8gb ddr4-4800mhz 17-19-19-39 1.6v ram kit on the z490 rog maximus apex xii motherboard with an i9 cpu? Once my CPU/cache oc is out of the way i'll be looking to tune this kit to either cas 17 flat 1T with tuned subs or stay at 17-19-19-39 with 1T and tuned subs. Just waiting for a fresh ssd to arrive + fresh windows + test bench so i am trying to collect all the information I need in advance so I can be ready to tune right away.

I have some questions about doing this.

This is my first asus motherboard so I am not familiar with memory overclocking on this motherboard.


Should I enable xmp or should I leave xmp disabled? If i leave xmp disabled, does the motherboard automatically set vccsa/vccio for a chosen frequency?
Do i enable trace centering from the start?
How do i go about getting tight rtls/iols?
Is there a specific order of operations for using these features?
I'm not sure what I need to know about this motherboard.

Also, is there any windows 10 services I need to disable for daily stability or can I just put the system together + install windows 10 from an official windows 10 USB/enter activation code + install z490 apex chipset drivers + install nvidia gpu driver + proceed with windows 10 updates + set high performance power plan before I start tuning?

Hopefully some of the experienced users around here are willing to share this information, it would be much appreciated. If not, I suppose I can head down to my local PC repair/service shop and pay them to do it but i'd rather not if I can do it myself.


----------



## sixty9sublime

IntoTheOC613 said:


> My SSDs and windows 10 USB arrive in 5ish days. Could someone please give me the following information so I can configure my system when the ssds/windows 10 arrives?
> 
> 
> Which _official_ retail asus bios should I use for gskill 2x8gb ddr4-4800mhz 17-19-19-39 1.6v ram kit on the z490 rog maximus apex xii motherboard with an i9 cpu? Once my CPU/cache oc is out of the way i'll be looking to tune this kit to either cas 17 flat 1T with tuned subs or stay at 17-19-19-39 with 1T and tuned subs. Just waiting for a fresh ssd to arrive + fresh windows + test bench so i am trying to collect all the information I need in advance so I can be ready to tune right away.
> 
> I have some questions about doing this.
> 
> This is my first asus motherboard so I am not familiar with memory overclocking on this motherboard.
> 
> 
> Should I enable xmp or should I leave xmp disabled? If i leave xmp disabled, does the motherboard automatically set vccsa/vccio for a chosen frequency?
> Do i enable trace centering from the start?
> How do i go about getting tight rtls/iols?
> Is there a specific order of operations for using these features?
> I'm not sure what I need to know about this motherboard.
> 
> Also, is there any windows 10 services I need to disable for daily stability or can I just put the system together + install windows 10 from an official windows 10 USB/enter activation code + install z490 apex chipset drivers + install nvidia gpu driver + proceed with windows 10 updates + set high performance power plan before I start tuning?
> 
> Hopefully some of the experienced users around here are willing to share this information, it would be much appreciated. If not, I suppose I can head down to my local PC repair/service shop and pay them to do it but i'd rather not if I can do it myself.


TBH, you sure are asking a lot coming in obviously fresh. I'd recommend doing what everyone else around here has done. Put in the time and read over the entirety of this thread, or maybe start around page 600.


----------



## .651955

sixty9sublime said:


> TBH, you sure are asking a lot coming in obviously fresh. I'd recommend doing what everyone else around here has done. Put in the time and read over the entirety of this thread, or maybe start around page 600.


I'm not fresh, It's not my first rodeo. This is probably my 20th account on this website. It's just the first time working with an asus brand motherboard. I'm just here to get the information I need and then i'm out. I know several people in this thread have the information. They just aren't sharing it.

Guys like Carillo, Nizzen, munternet etc. know what I need to know but nobody is sharing anything.

Is there an a to z guide somewhere that I can just print out? Do i need to just contact asus support directly for a list of full instructions that i can print out?

EDIT: nvm, i don't have time to waste dicking around or chasing information through threads that may or may not be relevant to my needs. I'm just gonna reach out directly to asus support. If they don't give me a list of instructions i'm just gonna pay the local service shop to do it.


----------



## 7empe

IntoTheOC613 said:


> I'm not fresh, It's not my first rodeo. This is probably my 20th account on this website. It's just the first time working with an asus brand motherboard. I'm just here to get the information I need and then i'm out. I know several people in this thread have the information. They just aren't sharing it.
> 
> Guys like Carillo, Nizzen, munternet etc. know what I need to know but nobody is sharing anything.
> 
> Is there an a to z guide somewhere that I can just print out? Do i need to just contact asus support directly for a list of full instructions that i can print out?
> 
> EDIT: nvm, i don't have time to waste dicking around or chasing information through threads that may or may not be relevant to my needs. I'm just gonna reach out directly to asus support. If they don't give me a list of instructions i'm just gonna pay the local service shop to do it.


Start with this: OC Guide


----------



## .651955

7empe said:


> Start with this: OC Guide


I already know that guide. I just need the information that I requested that isn't available in that guide.


----------



## nexxusty

PhoenixMDA said:


> Yes i know that your IMC is better as my, but you have a really good Kit, most can´t drive what you can.
> 
> With my old Kit 4700CL17 was not the Problem, and TM5 also not up to 43°, but the boot stability in reboot with higher than 35° if i drive 4666/4700.
> The new Kit boot perfekt 40°+ but my IMC Limit is with 4666 the same^^.


This is something that almost nobody talks about. I have 2x4400 C19 16GB kits, and it will not boot every time unless the IC's are under 38c.

Basically the same thing you are experiencing.

I realized this was the issue as I am in Canada and it's cold here ATM. I have been getting a 100% POST rate lately. My sticks are perfectly stable, they just wouldn't POST every time if I had been running the system for hours beforehand.

I am very glad I grabbed a waterblock for them all now. It will actually solve my problem long term with these sticks.

I plan on using these with Alder Lake as well, hopefully at around 5000mhz. No idea how Alder Lake does with 4 sticks though.


----------



## sixty9sublime

.651955 said:


> I'm not fresh, It's not my first rodeo. This is probably my 20th account on this website. It's just the first time working with an asus brand motherboard. I'm just here to get the information I need and then i'm out. I know several people in this thread have the information. They just aren't sharing it.
> 
> Guys like Carillo, Nizzen, munternet etc. know what I need to know but nobody is sharing anything.
> 
> Is there an a to z guide somewhere that I can just print out? Do i need to just contact asus support directly for a list of full instructions that i can print out?
> 
> EDIT: nvm, i don't have time to waste dicking around or chasing information through threads that may or may not be relevant to my needs. I'm just gonna reach out directly to asus support. If they don't give me a list of instructions i'm just gonna pay the local service shop to do it.


20th account on this website, hmm? Dang, would have guessed by now you'd know how to use the search function.


----------



## TheSteez

This place has for sure gone down hill. It's not the resource it used to be. Most of us have moved to extremehw.net. Unregistered user will certainly get the help he or she requires from asus directly or if they are still reading, come over to extremehw.net, we can give you the help you need.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> This place has for sure gone down hill. It's not the resource it used to be. Most of us have moved to extremehw.net. Unregistered user will certainly get the help he or she requires from asus directly or if they are still reading, come over to extremehw.net, we can give you the help you need.


just because people aren't answering your questions as fast as you like, throwing a hissy fit about people "not sharing" info is ridiculous.

bye


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> just because people aren't answering your questions as fast as you like, throwing a hissy fit about people "not sharing" info is ridiculous.
> 
> bye



I think you are confusing me with someone else.


----------



## XTAC

.651955 said:


> Which _official_ retail asus bios should I use for gskill 2x8gb ddr4-4800mhz 17-19-19-39 1.6v ram kit on the z490 rog maximus apex xii motherboard with an i9 cpu?
> 
> 
> Should I enable xmp or should I leave xmp disabled? If i leave xmp disabled, does the motherboard automatically set vccsa/vccio for a chosen frequency?
> 
> Do i enable trace centering from the start?
> 
> How do i go about getting tight rtls/iols?
> Is there a specific order of operations for using these features?
> 
> 
> Also, is there any windows 10 services I need to disable for daily stability or can I just put the system together + install windows 10 from an official windows 10 USB/enter activation code + install z490 apex chipset drivers + install nvidia gpu driver + proceed with windows 10 updates + set high performance power plan before I start tuning?



1) Asus BIOS - Will depend on the CPU in use. If you are using a Comet Lake 10700-10900, I would stick with the 1003 series BIOS before Rocket Lake was introduced. If you are using a 11000 series CPU, you will want the most recent BIOS in the 2301(?). Asus is never very forthcoming with details, but everything since 2000 series was introduced has been about Rocket Lake. I did not find the 2301 to be helpful for attempts at 4600-4800 level and 1003 was better, but I have an Extreme not a Apex. I would use the rule above and if on Comet Lake at 1003 is a bust, try the latest 2000 series. It's always easier to move forward on BIOS versions. Flashing backwards can be tedious.

2) You may want to enable XMP for the first attempt at 4800. Typically those timings are loose and most of them are auto filled in on the board. If you can't boot with that, you know you have your work cut out for you. However, be aware Asus uses XMP mode like a separate preset, so many of your CPU overclock settings will reset to default when you enable it. If you have absolutely no intention of ever using XMP, you can skip it, input the primary timings manually and begin the tuning process. If your intent is to manually set your RAM values, doin't use the XMP mode. The motherboard will auto select IO and SA voltages based on the frequency you set. At 4800 it's going to be monstrously high. Don't use it. I know my Asus Z490 sets 1.70v for 4600 if unaltered. That is not a safe or reasonable voltage for continuous use. 

3) I expect your kit is single rank 8GB modules. I am not sure how much trace centering will help, but you can enable it anyway. 

4) RTL and IOLs will be the very last thing you do. The exact values will be frequency and to a minor extent RAM/board dependent. This is touched on in most of the guides out there. Try looking at the info posted on page 392, post #7836 for some Asus specific values and instructions. 

5) If you need to disable Windows features to maintain stability then that may not meet the definition, but to each their own. Aside from getting rid of the usual bloatware, chat, teams stuff stuck to the start menu and task bar, you should not need to alter the OS for this. Power Plans will be in effect when the OS is running. It should not matter for stability testing where you likely will be at near maximum levels anyway and can use these as you see fit for your use.


----------



## Imprezzion

I had to re-do my entire BIOS and everything after soft-bricking it with XTU so yeah that means new training as well.

I had Round-Trip Latency enabled, Turn-Around disabled, Memory Fast Boot disabled, Auto RTL/IO and let the board do the training. It always had 66/66/66/66/7/7/8/8. Always. Now I updated the BIOS to the latest one, full CMOS wipe, new profile, re-set all the timings and let it train. It went to 64/64/66/66/7/7/7/7. That is obviously "better" or at least "lower" but is it actually better or is this still bad training? It took about 8 reboots to get it this far. It started at like 71/71/72/72/13/13/15/15 lol.

Primary timings are 4400 17-17-17-38-328-2N.


----------



## YaqY

@shamino1978 Is it possible to get control of eventual VTT in the XII Apex Bioses for the latest bios and possibly 0088/1003 if possible. I noticed the XIII series has this option but not unfortunately on the xii apex.


----------



## jeiselramos

2403 no issue on XII Apex.
Didn't minimize SA/IO.


----------



## YaqY

jeiselramos said:


> 2403 no issue on XII Apex.
> Didn't minimize SA/IO.
> View attachment 2531422


Are the dimms watercooled? Also have you tried GSAT?


----------



## jeiselramos

YaqY said:


> Are the dimms watercooled? Also have you tried GSAT?


Yes and gsat stable 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Who know this ram module https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...ZDDR4-4400MHz-CL19-19-19-39-1.40V16GB-(2x8GB)
It's a good ram?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

pipes said:


> Who know this ram module https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...ZDDR4-4400MHz-CL19-19-19-39-1.40V16GB-(2x8GB)
> It's a good ram?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Probably are B-die 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

That Is sure

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## The Pook

pipes said:


> Who know this ram module https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...ZDDR4-4400MHz-CL19-19-19-39-1.40V16GB-(2x8GB)
> It's a good ram?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I bought two 4133 19-19-19 1.35v kits and they both sucked, I'm convinced low voltage B-Die >4000 kits are just loser bins (sample size of two but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). 

I'd save a few bucks and go for F4-4000C15D-16GVK if you can get it, it's $70 cheaper here in the US than the kit you picked. They'd probably at _least_ clock similarly.


----------



## pipes

That ram cost 200 euro in italy

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## acoustic

Finally got bored enough to start messing with mem OC again. I've been running this dual-rank 2x16gb GSKILL 3200CL15 kit for a while at 4266 17-17-17-32-320 @ 1.55v VDIMM for a while. These sticks have been with me from my 9900K to this 10900K.

I've tried in the past to get 4400 stable, or 4266 16-16-16 or 16-17-17, but never had any success. My chip also hates high voltage on VCCIO/SA.. If I go above 1.25-1.26v on either SA/IO, I fail to post or immediately crash loading Windows every time.

I finally manually set the ODTs (80-40-48 for first try, seems good so far) and letting RTL/IOL set themselves for right now (1/1 IOL init, 65/65 RTL init) and I'm currently 10m into TM5 Anta777extreme which is longer than I've ever gotten before. I'm using Vref 0.770 at 1.55v VDIMM as well.

I've never been able to get more than 2-3min of TM5 before errors on this board/chip. Pretty cool stuff! I always find DRAM OCing very complicated/overwhelming, and I tend to do a little at a time (find some stable settings, leave it and enjoy PC for a while, then come back to it) and looks like the ODT/VTT settings are a massive help .. which I knew from some of the reports in this thread.

I'll run AIDA and show some comparisons once I can do 30m TM5, then start tightening RTL/IOL. Very impressed my cheap 3200CL15 (not a very good bin of b-die) is pumping a 1200mhz oc!

Update: TM5 threw 3 errors out during 2nd cycle of Extreme1. For some reason it didn't log when/what time, so can't tell when it exactly happened. I will try messing with the vREF to see if that helps.. hmm


----------



## nikolaus85

Finally passed tm5 absolut and Gsat with 4533 cl 16 17 17 2x8 viper 4400 c19 z490 unify and 10700k. The problem is OCCT gives me instant bsod, no matters vcore/sa/io i use. Tried bumping vcore to 1.360, but nothing. Should i try different LLC? I using LLC 4.


----------



## acoustic

nikolaus85 said:


> Finally passed tm5 absolut and Gsat with 4533 cl 16 17 17 2x8 viper 4400 c19 z490 unify and 10700k. The problem is OCCT gives me instant bsod, no matters vcore/sa/io i use. Tried bumping vcore to 1.360, but nothing. Should i try different LLC? I using LLC 4.


I'd say LLC4 is the best option. What's the BSOD error with OCCT? What's your Cache running at? Try dropping it down one or two ratios and seeing if it helps. Usually with Cache issues, I get a hard lock that requires full power cycle - not a BSOD.

As for 4400 .. I gave up on it again, but might try it again tonight. I realized that my stock (auto mobo) ODTs are set 80-0-40 for CH A, and 240-0-48 for CH B. I was trying to use 80-40-40 for both, but even my stable 4266 17-17-17 was hard-locking. I tried 80-0-40 for both, and CH B does not like it - still causes hard-lock or random shutdown. I'm currently using 80-48-48 and now I've got it stable again at my old 4266 17-17-17. With 80-0-40, the second I start HCI Memtest the entire system would shut off lol. Channel B does NOT like that ODT setting at all .. but 80-48-48, it seems to be much happier.

Now that I have an ODT setting that works for both channels, I think 4400 could be achievable..


----------



## nikolaus85

acoustic said:


> I'd say LLC4 is the best option. What's the BSOD error with OCCT? What's your Cache running at? Try dropping it down one or two ratios and seeing if it helps. Usually with Cache issues, I get a hard lock that requires full power cycle - not a BSOD.
> 
> As for 4400 .. I gave up on it again, but might try it again tonight. I realized that my stock (auto mobo) ODTs are set 80-0-40 for CH A, and 240-0-48 for CH B. I was trying to use 80-40-40 for both, but even my stable 4266 17-17-17 was hard-locking. I tried 80-0-40 for both, and CH B does not like it - still causes hard-lock or random shutdown. I'm currently using 80-48-48 and now I've got it stable again at my old 4266 17-17-17. With 80-0-40, the second I start HCI Memtest the entire system would shut off lol. Channel B does NOT like that ODT setting at all .. but 80-48-48, it seems to be much happier.
> 
> Now that I have an ODT setting that works for both channels, I think 4400 could be achievable..


my cache is x47: if i drop it, don't i lose performance? It gives me different bsods but also hard lock sometimes. My odts are 80-0-48 and i passed every type of memtest with them.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## acoustic

nikolaus85 said:


> my cache is x47: if i drop it, don't i lose performance? It gives me different bsods but also hard lock sometimes. My odts are 80-0-48 and i passed every type of memtest with them.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Could be the cache, or the core freq. I would test first by dropping cache down to 45x, and seeing if that helps. If not, maybe a different ODT? I was passing TM5 Extreme1 / HCI Memtest but would hard-lock while idle on desktop.

Dropping cache doesn't necessarily mean a loss in performance in real-world use. You may notice a tiny drop in AIDA.


----------



## acoustic

Here's where I've landed after spending the past day or two tweaking. I can't push above 4266, nor can I get 16-17-17 or 16-16-16 stable. I'm as high and tight as I can get it seems. I would share a SS of ASROCK Timing Config, but I don't think it works in Windows 11? I can't get it to launch for whatever reason ..

MSI Z490 ACE
10900K @ 5.3x4 / 5.1x10 / 4.8 Cache
4266 17-17-17-34-290 @ 1.55v VDIMM / ODT 80-48-48


----------



## ViTosS

acoustic said:


> Here's where I've landed after spending the past day or two tweaking. I can't push above 4266, nor can I get 16-17-17 or 16-16-16 stable. I'm as high and tight as I can get it seems. I would share a SS of ASROCK Timing Config, but I don't think it works in Windows 11? I can't get it to launch for whatever reason ..
> 
> MSI Z490 ACE
> 10900K @ 5.3x4 / 5.1x10 / 4.8 Cache
> 4266 17-17-17-34-290 @ 1.55v VDIMM / ODT 80-48-48
> 
> View attachment 2532028


What's your RAM XMP? I've been using 4400CL16-17-17-37 1.56v tight subtimings with 3600CL15-15-15-35 1.35v XMP 2x8GB btw


----------



## acoustic

ViTosS said:


> What's your RAM XMP? I've been using 4400CL16-17-17-37 1.56v tight subtimings with 3600CL15-15-15-35 1.35v XMP 2x8GB btw


3200 CL15-15-15-35 1.35V 2x16 DR


----------



## Imprezzion

acoustic said:


> Here's where I've landed after spending the past day or two tweaking. I can't push above 4266, nor can I get 16-17-17 or 16-16-16 stable. I'm as high and tight as I can get it seems. I would share a SS of ASROCK Timing Config, but I don't think it works in Windows 11? I can't get it to launch for whatever reason ..
> 
> MSI Z490 ACE
> 10900K @ 5.3x4 / 5.1x10 / 4.8 Cache
> 4266 17-17-17-34-290 @ 1.55v VDIMM / ODT 80-48-48
> 
> View attachment 2532028


ATC 4.0.3 works fine in Windows 11 dev channel build here on the same board. Don't use latest version, only 4.0.3 works.

It won't work on 4400 (133 divider) 17-17-17-38-328-2T with 80-0-48 ODT's? Thanks to Gen. that worked for me. 

What BIOS version you on btw? I'm on latest now and that seems to run very well and trains much faster and better on RTL IO then the older one I ran before.


----------



## nikolaus85

acoustic said:


> Could be the cache, or the core freq. I would test first by dropping cache down to 45x, and seeing if that helps. If not, maybe a different ODT? I was passing TM5 Extreme1 / HCI Memtest but would hard-lock while idle on desktop.
> 
> Dropping cache doesn't necessarily mean a loss in performance in real-world use. You may notice a tiny drop in AIDA.


i tried lowering cache till x45, bumping vcore till 1.400 but nothing. Would a different ODT affect cpu heavy workload like OCCT? I touhgt they were related just to ram. Maybe i should stay with 4400 16 17 17 34 that is not bad at all.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> ATC 4.0.3 works fine in Windows 11 dev channel build here on the same board. Don't use latest version, only 4.0.3 works.
> 
> It won't work on 4400 (133 divider) 17-17-17-38-328-2T with 80-0-48 ODT's? Thanks to Gen. that worked for me.
> 
> What BIOS version you on btw? I'm on latest now and that seems to run very well and trains much faster and better on RTL IO then the older one I ran before.


which bios version you had before? I running A.90 right now.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## acoustic

nikolaus85 said:


> i tried lowering cache till x45, bumping vcore till 1.400 but nothing. Would a different ODT affect cpu heavy workload like OCCT? I touhgt they were related just to ram. Maybe i should stay with 4400 16 17 17 34 that is not bad at all.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


ODT can absolutely cause that. I had bad ODT setting causing hard locks and system shutdowns.


----------



## nikolaus85

acoustic said:


> ODT can absolutely cause that. I had bad ODT setting causing hard locks and system shutdowns.


i bet if i change ODT i wont pass anymore Gsat or tm5 lol...anyway i will try

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheSteez

Hello,
If anyone has any tips on how I can improve this, please let me know as all constructive feedback is welcome. Tried to upload the video here but it was a tad too big so the website gave me an "oops, something went wrong" error. Same issue with imgur so I had to upload the video of this memory OC to youtube.


Apex XII [email protected]/44 10C/20T [email protected] 17-17-17-37-2T Karhu 6400%

Bios set values: 1.5v/Vdimm 1.35v/VccSA 1.35v/VccIO

Trace Centering: Enabled

Round Trip Latency: Enabled

Turn Around Timing: Enabled


----------



## HREN

PhoenixMDA said:


> Arround a half hour less as anta777 extrem, i need arround 2h hour with my daily.
> Nothing for short testing^^, but for 24/7 stability test is that ok.
> View attachment 2527568


Cool!
I have the same CPU, memory and XII Apex. SP91 10900k. Could you send me the BIOS settings for this frequency, there is no stability for me.


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> which bios version you had before? I running A.90 right now.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I had the one labeled .12W before. The last one without ReBAR. I run Resizable BAR on now as well. No HAGS due to issues with videos on second monitor.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I had the one labeled .12W before. The last one without ReBAR. I run Resizable BAR on now as well. No HAGS due to issues with videos on second monitor.


anyway it is ridicolous i can't be stable with ram at 4533 16 17 17 36 when i run heavy cpu stress test. I tried lowering cache, increasing voltages, different ODT and LLC, but OCCT always crashes after few seconds. One thing i noticed from Hwinfo, is VROUT drops under the voltages i selected in bios. I will never buy a Msi board and maybe i will ask refund to Amazon since the board is listed as capable of 2x8 5000mhz ram but can't handle 4533 because of that stupid behavior.


----------



## acoustic

nikolaus85 said:


> anyway it is ridicolous i can't be stable with ram at 4533 16 17 17 36 when i run heavy cpu stress test. I tried lowering cache, increasing voltages, different ODT and LLC, but OCCT always crashes after few seconds. One thing i noticed from Hwinfo, is VROUT drops under the voltages i selected in bios. I will never buy a Msi board and maybe i will ask refund to Amazon since the board is listed as capable of 2x8 5000mhz ram but can't handle 4533 because of that stupid behavior.


You're blaming the board but have not done proper troubleshooting to figure out what is causing the instability. Plenty of people running MSI Z490 with no issues, and it's widely regarded as one of the best memory OCing boards on the market. The Unify especially for the price. When you put a chip under heavy load like OCCT, you want to see the VROUT drop - that's vDROOP and it's a good thing - it protects the chip from high transient voltage spikes not readable by software. You can raise LLC to have less vDROOP, but I wouldn't recommend it. You can try LLC3 to test, but I wouldn't go above LLC3. I use LLC4.

For troubleshooting, I would go back to completely stock CPU, manually set VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.25v, and then set the memory. Does OCCT pass? If it does, then you know that the CPU is the issue. If it doesn't, then the memory is unstable and not capable of the speed/timings. 4533 CL16 is not easy depending on the bin of B-Die you're running. My sticks are a low/middle-end bin and they struggle above 4266..

Your CPU or your memory sticks could very well be the issue. Your IMC might not like the higher speeds, and no matter how much voltage you throw at it, it's not going to fix that.

Troubleshoot one thing at a time.


----------



## nikolaus85

acoustic said:


> You're blaming the board but have not done proper troubleshooting to figure out what is causing the instability. Plenty of people running MSI Z490 with no issues, and it's widely regarded as one of the best memory OCing boards on the market. The Unify especially for the price. When you put a chip under heavy load like OCCT, you want to see the VROUT drop - that's vDROOP and it's a good thing - it protects the chip from high transient voltage spikes not readable by software. You can raise LLC to have less vDROOP, but I wouldn't recommend it. You can try LLC3 to test, but I wouldn't go above LLC3. I use LLC4.
> 
> For troubleshooting, I would go back to completely stock CPU, manually set VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.25v, and then set the memory. Does OCCT pass? If it does, then you know that the CPU is the issue. If it doesn't, then the memory is unstable and not capable of the speed/timings. 4533 CL16 is not easy depending on the bin of B-Die you're running. My sticks are a low/middle-end bin and they struggle above 4266..
> 
> Your CPU or your memory sticks could very well be the issue. Your IMC might not like the higher speeds, and no matter how much voltage you throw at it, it's not going to fix that.
> 
> Troubleshoot one thing at a time.


the memory is ok, i passed anta777 absolut and gsat without issues. The problem is the cpu. And again, why should i lower vccio and vccsa if the values i have are valited by the stress tests? The problem is the cpu, i just have a 5.0ghz with uncore 4.7, and yes - if you didn't read - i tried already lowering cache, frequency, increasing voltages, tryingi different LLC but nothing. Im not gonna run 4500 on cpu because the unify fails handling 4533 mhz ram. People use tm5 and gsat to test the ram, occt does not stress the ram more than them. So the problem is the cpu. None is gonna test the ram with OCCT.


----------



## acoustic

nikolaus85 said:


> the memory is ok, i passed anta777 absolut and gsat without issues. The problem is the cpu.


OK, we agree, it's the CPU, so why are you blaming the mobo then?



> And again, why should i lower vccio and vccsa if the values i have are valited by the stress tests? The problem is the cpu, i just have a 5.0ghz with uncore 4.7, and yes - if you didn't read - i tried already lowering cache, frequency, increasing voltages, tryingi different LLC but nothing. Im not gonna run 4500 on cpu because the unify fails handling 4533 mhz ram. People use tm5 and gsat to test the ram, occt does not stress the ram more than them. So the problem is the cpu. None is gonna test the ram with OCCT.


Anta777 Absolut + GSAT stress the memory modules hard (and Absolut test6 hits IMC as well) but depending on what test you're running on OCCT .. OCCT can hit the IMC harder than Absolut or GSAT. Also, running too high VCCIO/VCCSA can cause more instability, and when OCCT hits the processor much harder than either GSAT or Absolut, that could be part of the issue as well ..

You agree it's the CPU as the problem, but then say again the "unify" fails handling 4533 ram. I disagree; your CPU IMC is likely failing 4533.

I have been reading and I've been trying to help you, but you need to work one thing at a time. Going to complete stock on CPU and then run OCCT will tell you whether or not it's the CPU for sure, then we can tweak one setting at a time on the CPU to find out exactly what setting will help correct the OCCT crashes. Right now, you're still guessing and making things harder for yourself.

For example, I can run all day with 80-40-40 ODT and pass TM5 Anta777 Extreme1/Absolut + HCI Memtest, but start OCCT or use 7Zip to extract a file and my entire system shuts down. Change to 80-48-48 and everything works fine.


----------



## TheSteez

nikolaus85 said:


> the memory is ok, i passed anta777 absolut and gsat without issues. The problem is the cpu. And again, why should i lower vccio and vccsa if the values i have are valited by the stress tests? The problem is the cpu, i just have a 5.0ghz with uncore 4.7, and yes - if you didn't read - i tried already lowering cache, frequency, increasing voltages, tryingi different LLC but nothing. Im not gonna run 4500 on cpu because the unify fails handling 4533 mhz ram. People use tm5 and gsat to test the ram, occt does not stress the ram more than them. So the problem is the cpu. None is gonna test the ram with OCCT.


What did you use to stability test the CPU OC prior to tuning the memory?


----------



## nikolaus85

TheSteez said:


> What did you use to stability test the CPU OC prior to tuning the memory?


i used occt, realbench, tm5 absolut and gsat. I passed them all with my 4400 cl 16 17 17 34 profile. Then i changed my ram to 4533, changed timings, same ODT and vref, and passed tm5 absolut and Gsat without issues. I passed Memtest pro and kahru too with 4533 cl 16 17 17. OCCT is the problem.


----------



## TheSteez

nikolaus85 said:


> i used occt, realbench, tm5 absolut and gsat. I passed them all with my 4400 cl 16 17 17 34 profile. Then i changed my ram to 4533, changed timings, same ODT and vref, and passed tm5 absolut and Gsat without issues. I passed Memtest pro and kahru too with 4533 cl 16 17 17. OCCT is the problem.


Is dram current maxed out? Is cpu current maxed out? I'm not familiar with ODTs on your board or setting vref so i'm unsure if that's the problem. Have you tried running a stock cpu ratio with maxed out limits in combination with 4533 to see if it would pass occt?


----------



## nikolaus85

TheSteez said:


> Is dram current maxed out? Is cpu current maxed out? I'm not familiar with ODTs on your board or setting vref so i'm unsure if that's the problem. Have you tried running a stock cpu ratio with maxed out limits in combination with 4533 to see if it would pass occt?


what you mean with maxed out? Cpu stock we mean core 3800 and cache 3500, and yes it passes OCCT with those ridicolouse frequencies. I don't see how it can help me with my overclock.


----------



## TheSteez

nikolaus85 said:


> what you mean with maxed out? Cpu stock we mean core 3800 and cache 3500, and yes it passes OCCT with those ridicolouse frequencies. I don't see how it can help me with my overclock.


I'm on an apex xii and my bios gives the option to raise cpu current limits and dram current limits. For example, I can set cpu current limits to 140% and dram current limits to 130%. Setting cpu/dram current limits to 130%-140% can be necessary for higher current loads.

What I meant by stock multiplier is the stock turbo all core frequency. So like set your CPU multiplier to the stock all core turbo frequency and set the voltage it would need to pass the most demanding tests out there till stable, not just occt stable but p95 small fft fma3/linpack extreme stable. If you are on an asus board, use the prediction in the bios as they are usually really accurate. Then put in the 4533 OC. If it doesn't past OCCT at stock all core turbo frequency with maxed out limits/maxed out temp limits in combination with the 4533 ram oc then it 100% has to do with the ram OC - which could very well come down to ODTs/vref as you suspect. I think it's important to start with a 100% stable in everything(yes, p95 small fft fma3/linpack/linx) CPU clockspeed. before tuning the ram and using the stock turbo all core multiplier is the best place to start. You may come to discover that maybe your CPU can only truly handle the specific ram OC up to a certain CPU multiplier on your chip.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> I'm on an apex xii and my bios gives the option to raise cpu current limits and dram current limits. For example, I can set cpu current limits to 140% and dram current limits to 130%. Setting cpu/dram current limits to 130%-140% can be necessary for higher current loads.
> 
> What I meant by stock multiplier is the stock turbo all core frequency. So like set your CPU multiplier to the stock all core turbo frequency and set the voltage it would need to pass the most demanding tests out there till stable, not just occt stable but p95 small fft fma3/linpack extreme stable. If you are on an asus board, use the prediction in the bios as they are usually really accurate. Then put in the 4533 OC. If it doesn't past OCCT at stock all core turbo frequency with maxed out limits/maxed out temp limits in combination with the 4533 ram oc then it 100% has to do with the ram OC - which could very well come down to ODTs/vref as you suspect. I think it's important to start with a 100% stable in everything(yes, p95 small fft fma3/linpack/linx) CPU clockspeed. before tuning the ram and using the stock turbo all core multiplier is the best place to start. You may come to discover that maybe your CPU can only truly handle the specific ram OC up to a certain CPU multiplier on your chip.


He's running a Z490 MSI Unify. On MSI, we do not go by current limit %, it's based off a raw number we set. It's called CPU Current Limit(A) and the max is 256A. There is no current limiting setting that I am aware of for DRAM.

Our VREF is also very different, I think. On ASUS, the general safe range is 0.550, with most running between 0.475-0.550mV, but on MSI the default is 0.600mV (per BIOS info tab on that setting). I think it's calculated differently. If I set my VREF to 0.475mV, I can't even post below 4000Mhz DRAM. On MSI, not that this means much, but VREF only goes "red" above 0.800mV VREF; in comparison, VCCIO goes red above 1.20v.

I have no way to monitor VREF or what the board is actually setting when it's on Auto. I do know that running 0.770mV VREF in BIOS really helps with making settings that typically won't post with Auto become stable enough to get into Windows and run tests.

I know on ASUS, people would lose their minds and worry about IMC degradation at VREF that high, but I just don't think it's calculated the same between MSI and ASUS..

I'm no expert, so if someone knows more, please chime in. Everything I know is from my own testing and some of what's been in this thread before - I think I'm terrible at memory OCing to be honest .. I can manipulate CPU all day long, but memory kicks my ass!

The super tight 4266 that I spent three days setting up just crashed playing two hours of Hell Let Loose, so I'm assuming the DIMMs got too hot .. now I'm back to the drawing board. I'm thinking I'll do 4000 16-16-16-32 at 1.50v to try and reduce the heat .. funny enough, those settings will only post at .770mV VREF..


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> He's running a Z490 MSI Unify. On MSI, we do not go by current limit %, it's based off a raw number we set. It's called CPU Current Limit(A) and the max is 256A. There is no current limiting setting that I am aware of for DRAM.



I see. Ok so then I assume he doesn't have the voltage predictions for each frequency in the bios either. In that case, He really needs to go back and run linpack extreme or linx 0.9.11 using the stock all core turbo multiplier to figure out how much volts the chip really needs before pushing the ram imo.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> I see. Ok so then I assume he doesn't have the voltage predictions for each frequency in the bios either. In that case, He really needs to go back and run linpack extreme or linx 0.9.11 using the stock all core turbo multiplier to figure out how much volts the chip really needs before pushing the ram imo.


That's pretty much what I recommended. If all memory intensive tests are passing, but OCCT is failing/hard-locking, then I'd point at the CPU of course. It's easier to isolate the issue by going stock and then working each step back rather than playing the guessing game, for sure!


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> That's pretty much what I recommended. If all memory intensive tests are passing, but OCCT is failing/hard-locking, then I'd point at the CPU of course. It's easier to isolate the issue by going stock and then working each step back rather than playing the guessing game, for sure!


Exactly. I actually ran into a similar issue yesterday. I had tuned the cpu to only pass aida64 cache + cpu. I did this because I know if I can pass cache + cpu, i'll pass fpu and realbench + be stable in games. For reference, I tuned 51 all core 48. Then I began tuning the memory. It passed just fine until I went to tighten rtls/iols. Then it errored with tightened rtls/iols. I then tried thin slicing by adding more vcore to see how the IMC would react to another test. still errored. While I can pass aida at 1.35v bios set llc 5, the prediction wants 1.5v for 5.1ghz which is STUPIDLY HIGH. Now i 100% am not willing to give my chip 1.5v for 5.1ghz on manual vcore so I just bumped it down to 48 all core and 44 cache and set exact voltage the prediction calls for. Passed the test with tightened rtls/iols after making these changes. It seems I got another crappy chip. Intel sent me a used chip that was not in regular retail packaging listing it in "good condition" as my standard warranty replacement chip. Standard warranty replacement calls for a brand new CPU to be sent out but i was given a pre owned/used CPU. Is this normal behavior from Intel to hand out used chips like this? I'm certainly not happy about this considering I spent an extra 900 dollars for a new board + new ram kit and i'm given a used chip that was probably already beat on by someone else(not to mention the IMC on this thing scales like crap with voltage - 1.35v sa/io requirements for c17-4400 on 2x8gb is terrible for z490). While it was nice for intel to offer me a free upgrade to 10th gen 10c/10t after my 9900k died, If i had known that they'd be giving me a used 10850k chip instead of a factory sealed chip, I would have just taken the factory sealed 9900K with the chinese labeling that they offered. Would have saved me 900 dollars. I might return the board/ram kit and sell off the 10850k and just buy a 9900k again since i still have my z390 board/old sticks.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

HREN said:


> Cool!
> I have the same CPU, memory and XII Apex. SP91 10900k. Could you send me the BIOS settings for this frequency, there is no stability for me.


But not every Kit is possible to do that, some Kit´s need other timing´s and it give´s also 4000c14 kit´s cant drive 4600 and more 100% GSat stable with CL16 or 17.
File-Upload.net - 46001616.CMO


----------



## TheSteez

PhoenixMDA said:


> But not every Kit is possible to do that, some Kit´s need other timing´s and it give´s also 4000c14 kit´s cant drive 4600 and more 100% GSat stable with CL16 or 17.
> File-Upload.net - 46001616.CMO


What is a cmo file?


----------



## Imprezzion

TheSteez said:


> What is a cmo file?


What is a CMO file?
A CMO file is a BIOS file used by ASUS computers running WIndows. It contains a BIOS profile, which includes saved settings and instructions to load computer hardware, such as whether fast boot is enabled or disabled and the boot performance mode.

I'm lazy, Google copy paste. Lol.

I dunno about Intel shipping a used chip being normal. The only time I ever had to RMA a chip to Intel (a 2500K with dead PCI-E controller) I got a brand new one which was a record holding chip for a while lol. (6.06Ghz bench stable on LN2 and 5.3Ghz 24/7 under water @ 1.496v).


----------



## Astral85

I came back to check on TM5 Extreme 1 at 3 hours and found it was only testing 1GB of RAM. What does that mean?


----------



## acoustic

Anyone on Win11? Please test this .. I'm running a 10900K on an MSI Z490 ACE.

I'm experiencing system shutdowns when starting MemTestPro either immediately or as it loads the 3rd-4th thread. I've put ram @ XMP (3200CL15 1.35v) with 1.24v VCCIO/SA and it still occurs. I notice it happens especially if MemTestPro recognizes 30K MB of RAM. Occasionally it'll load no problem and it'll run for hours and hours .. if I stop the test and restart it, 9/10 chance the system shuts down.

I've never seen this before or experienced it on Win10, and I'm thinking it might be either a Win11 issue or something along those lines. I had to leave the house, but I have two more things to troubleshoot:

1) go back to an older BIOS (MSI Z490 ACE) - currently running the newest October release

2) put CPU completely stock. I had set it to 5.1 all-core with plenty of voltage - far more than I know it needs.

If anyone else can test this on Win11, that would be great. Set up this way:

Max threads
Full RAM usage
Low-Priority Threads NOT checked

If the application loads all your threads fine, then please hit "stop test", let it release all the RAM, and then make sure to reset the amount of RAM per thread (just put 0 to make it use max allowable) and start it again. I would say 5 cycles is a good indicator.. I can't do more than 1 or 2 before I get a shutdown.

I'll test further when I get home. It's been really frustrating because I thought my memory and/or ODT settings were causing it, but turns out it may be either a BIOS issue, CPU issue, or software issue. I have no belief it's an issue with the PSU because I can load OCCT, CB23, etc which put far higher wattage loads and it's fine.


----------



## The Pook

went months without any issues but a few days ago Premiere crashed twice (one crash and a BSOD) and when I picked up BF 2042 I had a few crashes and another BSOD. 

dropped my RAM from 4300 to 4200 and haven't had the problem since, but I've passed >4 hours of GSAT and RAM Test just fine.


----------



## Falkentyne

The Pook said:


> went months without any issues but a few days ago Premiere crashed twice (one crash and a BSOD) and when I picked up BF 2042 I had a few crashes and another BSOD.
> 
> dropped my RAM from 4300 to 4200 and haven't had the problem since, but I've passed >4 hours of GSAT and RAM Test just fine.


Comeon pook you know better than that


----------



## acoustic

The Pook said:


> went months without any issues but a few days ago Premiere crashed twice (one crash and a BSOD) and when I picked up BF 2042 I had a few crashes and another BSOD.
> 
> dropped my RAM from 4300 to 4200 and haven't had the problem since, but I've passed >4 hours of GSAT and RAM Test just fine.


I've had the same type of **** happen as well. Stable for months then not stable ever lol


----------



## KedarWolf

acoustic said:


> Anyone on Win11? Please test this .. I'm running a 10900K on an MSI Z490 ACE.
> 
> I'm experiencing system shutdowns when starting MemTestPro either immediately or as it loads the 3rd-4th thread. I've put ram @ XMP (3200CL15 1.35v) with 1.24v VCCIO/SA and it still occurs. I notice it happens especially if MemTestPro recognizes 30K MB of RAM. Occasionally it'll load no problem and it'll run for hours and hours .. if I stop the test and restart it, 9/10 chance the system shuts down.
> 
> I've never seen this before or experienced it on Win10, and I'm thinking it might be either a Win11 issue or something along those lines. I had to leave the house, but I have two more things to troubleshoot:
> 
> 1) go back to an older BIOS (MSI Z490 ACE) - currently running the newest October release
> 
> 2) put CPU completely stock. I had set it to 5.1 all-core with plenty of voltage - far more than I know it needs.
> 
> If anyone else can test this on Win11, that would be great. Set up this way:
> 
> Max threads
> Full RAM usage
> Low-Priority Threads NOT checked
> 
> If the application loads all your threads fine, then please hit "stop test", let it release all the RAM, and then make sure to reset the amount of RAM per thread (just put 0 to make it use max allowable) and start it again. I would say 5 cycles is a good indicator.. I can't do more than 1 or 2 before I get a shutdown.
> 
> I'll test further when I get home. It's been really frustrating because I thought my memory and/or ODT settings were causing it, but turns out it may be either a BIOS issue, CPU issue, or software issue. I have no belief it's an issue with the PSU because I can load OCCT, CB23, etc which put far higher wattage loads and it's fine.


Attached are some scripts for running Memtest using about 90% of your RAM. If I right-click, run as admin, they all start okay.

Rename the attachment and remove the .txt.

Oh wait, I thought them not all loading was your problem, not sure if the scripts will help. :/


----------



## acoustic

KedarWolf said:


> Attached are some scripts for running Memtest using about 90% of your RAM. If I right-click, run as admin, they all start okay.
> 
> Rename the attachment and remove the .txt.
> 
> Oh wait, I thought them not all loading was your problem, not sure if the scripts will help. :/


No, not an issue of loading. It's an issue of an unstable OC.. I think my old GSkill sticks have degraded from running 1.55v for two years. I can't even run XMP 3200CL15 without 1.45v - these sticks are 1.35v XMP.

Oops..


----------



## The Pook

Falkentyne said:


> Comeon pook you know better than that





acoustic said:


> I've had the same type of **** happen as well. Stable for months then not stable ever lol


😢


----------



## acoustic

Even at 1.5v vDIMM with stock XMP (rated for 1.35v) and completely stock CPU, I'm getting random shutdowns when starting HCI MemTestPro..

Is there anyone on Windows 11 who can test it for me as well? It's the only thing I can't verify. TM5 gives me no issues, OCCT nothing, CB23 nothing .. but HCI MemTestPro is ****ing my world up. If the test is able to start the first two workers, it's fine guaranteed, but every 1 out of 5 times (or so) it will shut my system down completely and start back up again.

I've tried everything here. I even reflashed to an older mobo BIOS. I guess I can try reformatting to Windows 10 and seeing if it occurs there.. I'm starting to suspect it's one of two things:

Win11 and MemTestPro issue

My RAM has finally had enough of my **** at 1.55v and said byebye

Going to try 1.55v vDIMM with XMP to see.. I just can't imagine the RAM degrading at 1.55v, especially since they run relatively cool; having a 4-slot board has its perks.

Edit: wow, even at 1.55v vDIMM, first attempt to start MemTestPro shut the PC down.

I'm going to try swapping the sticks and re-seating. This is ****ed! Maybe a sign to jump to ADL and join Falkentyne and Cstkl in the fun..

Re-seated and swapped sticks .. first try at 1.55v with 3200CL15 XMP shut the PC down. Lol.

Currently testing JEDEC 2133 to see if it does it at those speeds too. I believe my RAM is toast.

CONFIRMED - RAM is toast. I've ran over 30x cycles of starting/stopping MemTestPro with no shutdowns @ JEDEC 2133. It ran most of it's life at 4133/4266CL17 @ 1.55v vDIMM, never exceeded 1.55v. Low temps (don't have temp sensors on them, but it's a custom loop build with 2x 360 rads intake and 3x 120mm fans intake blowing cool air in the case). RAM is dated Aug 2019. Very sad 

What's crazy is that MemTestPro is the only one that has shown these issues, besides a rogue CPU Cache L0 Error in Hell Let Loose that I believe may be related. TM5 Extreme1 + ABSOLUT both pass 3 cycles, and MemTestPro, if the test can start, will run 2000% pass no problem.


----------



## acoustic

Just ordered G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA - Newegg.com 

We'll see how these do. I don't think I'll be exceeding 1.48-1.5v this time .. should get me along until Intel HEDT comes out, then it'll be a big upgrade.


----------



## TheSteez

Apex XII [email protected]/47 10C/10T [email protected] 16-16-16-34-2T Karhu 10,000%

Bios set values:

1.55v/Vdimm 1.3v/VccSA 1.3v/VccIO


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> Apex XII [email protected]/47 10C/10T [email protected] 16-16-16-34-2T Karhu 10,000%
> 
> Bios set values:
> 
> 1.55v/Vdimm 1.3v/VccSA 1.3v/VccIO


I would be careful daily-driving 1.55v on vDIMM. I think the 10-layer PCB sticks hold up better to higher voltage, but my older Ripjaws that were not 10-layer seemed to have been murdered by 2 years of 1.55v daily.

I'll be able to 100% confirm the RAM was the culprit when the new sticks get here, but I am now weary of 1.55v ..


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> I would be careful daily-driving 1.55v on vDIMM. I think the 10-layer PCB sticks hold up better to higher voltage, but my older Ripjaws that were not 10-layer seemed to have been murdered by 2 years of 1.55v daily.
> 
> I'll be able to 100% confirm the RAM was the culprit when the new sticks get here, but I am now weary of 1.55v ..


Hey hey,
Ya I saw your post earlier in the thread. That is unfortunate broski . If xmp is no longer stable at the voltage the sticks the profile is rated for, contact gskill for an rma. They offer a limited lifetime warranty and they would replace the sticks with an equivalent bin or greater provided you can show proof of purchase. Have you done a full cmos clear/bios flashback/fresh windows reinstall on a brand new drive or have you tried the CPU at stock with your ram profile(s)?

In regards to the sticks I am ocing on, i'm not worried about 1.55v/vdimm because the sticks are rated for 1.6v/vdimm so they are guaranteed to at least handle 1.6v/vdimm + heat. I appreciate the heads up though mate.


----------



## The Pook

Doubt 1.55v was my problem, I updated my BIOS for W11 roughly around the same time the problem started but forgot about it. I flashed back and it all seems well again. Started GSAT a little before bed last night and it ran a bit over 9 hours and all was OK.

Haven't loaded up a game or Premiere since "fixing" it but I'll give it a go tonight.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> Hey hey,
> Ya I saw your post earlier in the thread. That is unfortunate broski . If xmp is no longer stable at the voltage the sticks the profile is rated for, contact gskill for an rma. They offer a limited lifetime warranty and they would replace the sticks with an equivalent bin or greater provided you can show proof of purchase. Have you done a full cmos clear/bios flashback/fresh windows reinstall on a brand new drive or have you tried the CPU at stock with your ram profile(s)?
> 
> In regards to the sticks I am ocing on, i'm not worried about 1.55v/vdimm because the sticks are rated for 1.6v/vdimm so they are guaranteed to at least handle 1.6v/vdimm + heat. I appreciate the heads up though mate.


All good! I know tons of people claim 1.55v is safe, but the older DDR4 sticks that came out, like my F4-3200CL15D-32GVK, might be more susceptible to getting eaten up? That's just my guess based off what is happening here. Again, I can't confirm this, but it's the only thing that makes sense. I did a complete troubleshooting round:

CPU to full stock
Flashed to older BIOS
Pulled sticks / gave them the ol' N64 cartridge blow / swapped them from A2->B2 -- B2->A2
CPU OC'd with RAM at JEDEC 2133 (works fine)

The only thing I didn't really test was a fresh Windows install, but I don't want to reformat just to reformat AGAIN after I tweak the new set of Royals. If the new sticks don't fix the issue, I will be reformatting to Windows 10 for testing purposes to see if it's an issue with Win11 + MTP.

As of right now, the only settings that work and do not cause shutdowns are JEDEC 2133 @ 1.35v vDIMM. If I set XMP, which is 3200 15-15-15-36 @ 1.35v vDIMM, I crash. If I set voltage to 1.55v vDIMM, I still crash, even with XMP enabled but manually setting vDIMM. This is all tested with CPU completely stock (even cache) with VCCIO/SA set to 1.24v. I daily-drove these sticks at 4266CL17 @ 1.55v vDIMM with 1.18v VCCIO/SA, so I have a hard time believing my CPU IMC is the culprit .. but until the new sticks get here, it's not 100% the RAM -- just 99% 

I will contact GSKILL for an RMA. I'm kind of excited to play with the Royals. I've had these 3200CL15 sticks for over two years now, and they served me very well. I learned everything I know about mem OC with them and it's been a fun ride. I'll likely get the RMA and try the sticks out compared to the Royals, and sell whichever is worse. I would really hope a 4000CL16 @ 1.4v bin is better than 3200CL15 @ 1.35v, but we'll see!



The Pook said:


> Doubt 1.55v was my problem, I updated my BIOS for W11 roughly around the same time the problem started but forgot about it. I flashed back and it all seems well again. Started GSAT a little before bed last night and it ran a bit over 9 hours and all was OK.
> 
> Haven't loaded up a game or Premiere since "fixing" it but I'll give it a go tonight.


I can't imagine it's anything else - the sticks appear to be severely degraded. The issue started a week or two ago, and ever since then it's been impossible. I had a random CPU Cache L0 error pop up playing Hell Let Loose, so I dug even deeper and that's when I discovered these random issues with HCI MemTestPro. Between the shutdowns and hard-locking on desktop, I think it's very likely the RAM. I'm 100% stable at JEDEC 2133. I haven't tested trying to manually bump the freq up but the sticks just will not take anything anymore, even with 1.55v vDIMM.

I'll be playing some Hell Let Loose with the RAM @ JEDEC and the same CPU OC I ran previously (and one I know is stable) to see if another CPU Cache L0 pops up, but I'm really thinking the L0 error was related to the memory just tweaking the **** out. The strangest part, is that if the test actually started, it would pass overnight! I did a 3000% pass of HCI MemTestPro and 3 cycles of TM5 Anta777 Extreme1 + ABSOLUT just the night before with no issues. I wonder if it was an issue with the memory being addressed and allocated, and when it initially accessed, sometimes it would flip out - but if it accessed fine the first time, it was OK. I have no idea.

I wish we still had some of the heavy hitters who know a LOT more than I do still roaming this thread. Everyone has abandoned us for DDR5 glory! lol


----------



## Arni90

anta777 said:


> *fenriquez*
> tREFI=65024 better
> 
> tREFIx9 * 1024 = Maximum time (in ticks) between updates.
> With tREFIx9 = 127, we get 127 * 1024 = 130048 clock cycles.
> This is a window into which (multiple times) an integer number of tREFI loops must fit.
> Hence tREFI is equal to:
> 130048/2 = 65024 (fit 2 tREFI cycles)
> 130048/3 = 43349
> 130048/4 = 32512
> 130048/5 = 26009
> 130048/6 = 21674
> 130048/7 = 18578
> 130048/8 = 16256 (8 tREFI cycles)


This is bad advice.
tREFI 65024 increases the benchmark time in both SuperPI 32M and PYPrime 2B.
I also tried tREFI 65023, and tREFI + tRFC = 65024, nothing helped.


----------



## anta777

SuperPI and PYPrime - that's not all

life does not end there


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> All good! I know tons of people claim 1.55v is safe, but the older DDR4 sticks that came out, like my F4-3200CL15D-32GVK, might be more susceptible to getting eaten up? That's just my guess based off what is happening here. Again, I can't confirm this, but it's the only thing that makes sense. I did a complete troubleshooting round:
> 
> CPU to full stock
> Flashed to older BIOS
> Pulled sticks / gave them the ol' N64 cartridge blow / swapped them from A2->B2 -- B2->A2
> CPU OC'd with RAM at JEDEC 2133 (works fine)
> 
> The only thing I didn't really test was a fresh Windows install, but I don't want to reformat just to reformat AGAIN after I tweak the new set of Royals. If the new sticks don't fix the issue, I will be reformatting to Windows 10 for testing purposes to see if it's an issue with Win11 + MTP.
> 
> As of right now, the only settings that work and do not cause shutdowns are JEDEC 2133 @ 1.35v vDIMM. If I set XMP, which is 3200 15-15-15-36 @ 1.35v vDIMM, I crash. If I set voltage to 1.55v vDIMM, I still crash, even with XMP enabled but manually setting vDIMM. This is all tested with CPU completely stock (even cache) with VCCIO/SA set to 1.24v. I daily-drove these sticks at 4266CL17 @ 1.55v vDIMM with 1.18v VCCIO/SA, so I have a hard time believing my CPU IMC is the culprit .. but until the new sticks get here, it's not 100% the RAM -- just 99%
> 
> I will contact GSKILL for an RMA. I'm kind of excited to play with the Royals. I've had these 3200CL15 sticks for over two years now, and they served me very well. I learned everything I know about mem OC with them and it's been a fun ride. I'll likely get the RMA and try the sticks out compared to the Royals, and sell whichever is worse. I would really hope a 4000CL16 @ 1.4v bin is better than 3200CL15 @ 1.35v, but we'll see!
> 
> 
> 
> I can't imagine it's anything else - the sticks appear to be severely degraded. The issue started a week or two ago, and ever since then it's been impossible. I had a random CPU Cache L0 error pop up playing Hell Let Loose, so I dug even deeper and that's when I discovered these random issues with HCI MemTestPro. Between the shutdowns and hard-locking on desktop, I think it's very likely the RAM. I'm 100% stable at JEDEC 2133. I haven't tested trying to manually bump the freq up but the sticks just will not take anything anymore, even with 1.55v vDIMM.
> 
> I'll be playing some Hell Let Loose with the RAM @ JEDEC and the same CPU OC I ran previously (and one I know is stable) to see if another CPU Cache L0 pops up, but I'm really thinking the L0 error was related to the memory just tweaking the **** out. The strangest part, is that if the test actually started, it would pass overnight! I did a 3000% pass of HCI MemTestPro and 3 cycles of TM5 Anta777 Extreme1 + ABSOLUT just the night before with no issues. I wonder if it was an issue with the memory being addressed and allocated, and when it initially accessed, sometimes it would flip out - but if it accessed fine the first time, it was OK. I have no idea.
> 
> I wish we still had some of the heavy hitters who know a LOT more than I do still roaming this thread. Everyone has abandoned us for DDR5 glory! lol


Gskill themself says 1.55v is fine on b-die. I asked one of their techs when I was pushing a kit that was rated for 1.35v and they said 1.55v is fine. I wouldn't go higher than 1.65v for daily.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> Gskill themself says 1.55v is fine on b-die. I asked one of their techs when I was pushing a kit that was rated for 1.35v and they said 1.55v is fine. I wouldn't go higher than 1.65v for daily.


If the new sticks fix the issue, then I can't say I agree. The chips don't seem to be defective, just significantly degraded.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

acoustic said:


> If the new sticks fix the issue, then I can't say I agree. The chips don't seem to be defective, just significantly degraded.


Then you are the first Person with under 1,6V
Most ramoc problems like your's have to do with the cpu Socket Pins and sometimes also dimm socket.


----------



## acoustic

PhoenixMDA said:


> Then you are the first Person with under 1,6V
> Most ramoc problems like your's have to do with the cpu Socket Pins and sometimes also dimm socket.


We'll see when I swap out with the new sticks. I hope it's the RAM because if not, I'll be forced to jump to ADL lol.

I would be surprised if the ACE was the issue. This board is built just as well as the APEX.


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> If the new sticks fix the issue, then I can't say I agree. The chips don't seem to be defective, just significantly degraded.


How long till your new sticks arrive?


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> How long till your new sticks arrive?


Should be here Tuesday, but if I'm lucky, they'll be here tomorrow afternoon. Paid for Express shipping on Newegg, and they have a warehouse somewhat nearby that usually can get me next day.

I ordered them late Saturday night.


----------



## TheSteez

Can someone please tell me what the trick is to getting c15 4400 stable on the z490 apex xii?


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> Can someone please tell me what the trick is to getting c15 4400 stable on the z490 apex xii?


Have you tried manually adjusting ODTs? Manually setting vREF? ODTs and vREF can really help eek out that little extra.


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> Have you tried manually adjusting ODTs? Manually setting vREF? ODTs and vREF can really help eek out that little extra.


I have not. I am new to asus boards(came from gigabyte) so the values are a bit different. Also not used to ocing only 2 dimms. What values do I set for c15 4400? 

Also, how do I set TJ max for the z490 apex? I can't find the option anywhere in the bios.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> I have not. I am new to asus boards(came from gigabyte) so the values are a bit different. Also not used to ocing only 2 dimms.


From what I understand, your board/chip/ram combo like a certain ODT that can help with stability. I've seen three different values used a lot by others:

80-40-40
80-48-48
80-0-40

You can try each one and see if they help with stability, or make it worse. You may have to mix and match (I've seen 80-0-48 and 80-34-40/48 as well) to find what helps.

VREF can be huge on helping you reduce VCCIO/VCCSA and required vDIMM. If I remember correctly, on ASUS boards it's generally 0.475-0.550 range - just try different values until you find one that helps with stability. It's really good to test these values with an unstable RAM setting so you can see which value is making the tests last longer or makes the settings stable all together.

Again, I'm no expert, so if we can have some of the more veteran OCers like Phoenix chime in, that would be good


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> From what I understand, your board/chip/ram combo like a certain ODT that can help with stability. I've seen three different values used a lot by others:
> 
> 80-40-40
> 80-48-48
> 80-0-40
> 
> You can try each one and see if they help with stability, or make it worse. You may have to mix and match (I've seen 80-0-48 and 80-34-40/48 as well) to find what helps.
> 
> VREF can be huge on helping you reduce VCCIO/VCCSA and required vDIMM. If I remember correctly, on ASUS boards it's generally 0.475-0.550 range - just try different values until you find one that helps with stability. It's really good to test these values with an unstable RAM setting so you can see which value is making the tests last longer or makes the settings stable all together.
> 
> Again, I'm no expert, so if we can have some of the more veteran OCers like Phoenix chime in, that would be good


These are 4800mhz sticks, if I enable xmp for 4800, do they still tune everything(aside from timings) in the background like they did on z390 with xmp?


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> From what I understand, your board/chip/ram combo like a certain ODT that can help with stability. I've seen three different values used a lot by others:
> 
> 80-40-40
> 80-48-48
> 80-0-40
> 
> You can try each one and see if they help with stability, or make it worse. You may have to mix and match (I've seen 80-0-48 and 80-34-40/48 as well) to find what helps.
> 
> VREF can be huge on helping you reduce VCCIO/VCCSA and required vDIMM. If I remember correctly, on ASUS boards it's generally 0.475-0.550 range - just try different values until you find one that helps with stability. It's really good to test these values with an unstable RAM setting so you can see which value is making the tests last longer or makes the settings stable all together.
> 
> Again, I'm no expert, so if we can have some of the more veteran OCers like Phoenix chime in, that would be good


These are 4800mhz sticks, if I enable xmp for 4800, do they still tune everything(aside from timings) in the background like they did on z390 with xmp?


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> These are 4800mhz sticks, if I enable xmp for 4800, do they still tune everything(aside from timings) in the background like they did on z390 with xmp?


They should, yes. When I enable XMP on my current sticks, the ODTs are set to 80-60-60. When set to Auto with XMP off, they go to 80-0-40


----------



## TheSteez

Duplicate post my bad. deleted.


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> They should, yes. When I enable XMP on my current sticks, the ODTs are set to 80-60-60. When set to Auto with XMP off, they go to 80-0-40


i haven't enabled xmp on these sticks at all yet. I'm hesitant on doing so because the whole xmp warranty void thing. Do they give the sa/io requirements as well? Like, with manual tuning(xmp off), the boards gives 1.47v IO and 1.65v or so SA for 4800. Do you happen to know how much can settting manual odts can lower sa/io requirements by? Is there a chance requirements will be less then 1.35v for sa/io for a tuned c17 4800mhz?

Sorry for all the questions, new to 2x8gb tuning, asus boards and frequencies higher than 4400. I appreciate all your help btw.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> i haven't enabled xmp on these sticks at all yet. I'm hesitant on doing so because the whole xmp warranty void thing. Do they give the sa/io requirements as well? Like, with manual tuning(xmp off), the boards gives 1.47v IO and 1.65v or so SA for 4800. Do you happen to know how much can settting manual odts can lower sa/io requirements by? Is there a chance requirements will be less then 1.35v for sa/io for a tuned c17 4800mhz?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, new to 2x8gb tuning, asus boards and frequencies higher than 4400. I appreciate all your help btw.


Not sure what you mean by XMP warranty void. Never let the board manually set VCCIO/SA. It majorly overvolts.. 1.65v SA is ****ing nuts.

VCCIO/SA depends on your CPU IMC. Some run very high IO/SA voltages.. I'm not sure if it's because they have to or because of poor tweaking so they muscle the IMC through with more voltage. I'm sure most are due to poor IMC. I can't say for sure how much tweaking VREF can/will drop your requirements, but some have had some pretty nice drops in minimums.

For reference, I ran 4266CL17 at 1.18v IO/SA. Never had a problem.

Questions are good! I'm glad this thread is still alive .... For now. Lol


----------



## TheSteez

@Nizzen @Carillo 

Could you guys tell me what vref and ODTs you used for c17 4700 1T and c17 4800 2T on the z490 apex xii? 2t and 1t voltage settings would be awesome. Working with gskill 2x8gb SR c17-4800 1.6v dimms. Promise to send good vibes in return .


----------



## PhoenixMDA

You will see, but i don´t think it help´s acoustic.

4400CL15 is a little bit much, for that it´s good watercooling on dimm, my Kit is very good and it need´s 1,57V to do that really stable.
ODT 80/48/40 and the possible timings are also a question of the sticks.That is in my case one possibility of timings for 24/7.
Vref not necessary and odt i think will do also on auto.


----------



## Carillo

TheSteez said:


> @Nizzen @Carillo
> 
> Could you guys tell me what vref and ODTs you used for c17 4700 1T and c17 4800 2T on the z490 apex xii? 2t and 1t voltage settings would be awesome. Working with gskill 2x8gb SR c17-4800 1.6v dimms. Promise to send good vibes in return .


Vref and ODT auto. Watercooled dimms


----------



## Carillo

TheSteez said:


> @Nizzen @Carillo
> 
> Could you guys tell me what vref and ODTs you used for c17 4700 1T and c17 4800 2T on the z490 apex xii? 2t and 1t voltage settings would be awesome. Working with gskill 2x8gb SR c17-4800 1.6v dimms. Promise to send good vibes in return .


Not many IMC's can run this


----------



## acoustic

@Carillo what block are you using for the DIMMs?


----------



## Carillo

acoustic said:


> @Carillo what block are you using for the DIMMs?


*EK-RAM Monarc* atm, but i m changing to some custom blocks from my friends over at Super cool Thailand


----------



## acoustic

Carillo said:


> *EK-RAM Monarc* atm, but i m changing to some custom blocks from my friends over at Super cool Thailand
> 
> View attachment 2532483


Please post pics of the SuperCool blocks! Any idea when you'll have them?

I've heard their direct-die kit was pretty awesome for 10th gen. I believe it was @Thanh Nguyen who was talking about their blocks.


----------



## Johaho

Msi Z490 Unify Trident Z RGB 3200C14
ODT:80-0-48
Vref:Auto


----------



## anta777

WRRDdr=RDRDdr (tCWL=tCL)


----------



## TheSteez

unfortunately i can't afford to invest anymore money into this stuff. Wish it was advertised that i needed to watercool the dimms to use a 1.6v xmp kit at its rated xmp voltage . I really think that's one thing the industry needs to be a bit more transparent on. Probably would have stayed on z390 or just gone back to console after my old chip died. A bit disappointed tbh, Spent 900 extra dollars to upgrade to z490/top ram and didn't getting any improvements on memory OC over what I had last gen, i'm actually getting less copy bandwidth at the same latency on a board that costed me more than double what I spent on my z390 board. I think i'm done here. Thanks for the tips, take care guys.


----------



## Carillo

acoustic said:


> Please post pics of the SuperCool blocks! Any idea when you'll have them?
> 
> I've heard their direct-die kit was pretty awesome for 10th gen. I believe it was @Thanh Nguyen who was talking about their blocks.


I belive we received the first direct dies for 10th gen  , but yes they were awesome. 12 gen direct die and delid tool incoming. Maybe next week , i will post photos


----------



## Imprezzion

I am having a lot of problems getting my training to work again lol.

I changed a few things like turning off ReBAR and raising TREFI a bit (it was still stock 8xxx) and I tried to let it re train but now I always get like 75/75/74/74/13/13/11/11 or whatever and sometimes way out of whack like 68/68/74/74/7/7/13/13 or 68/68/72/72/11/11/13/13 or whatever but never the nice 65/65/66/66/7/7/7/7 I used to get...

What am I doing wrong lol.. Can I not just Ctrl alt delete from the BIOS to restart? Will that fail training and do I have to fully power off or something?

EDIT: Changed tRDWR's back to 14, had them on 12 but that is borderline on 4400C17 @ 1.50v on my kit and dropped tWRRD from 30/26 to 29/25 and straight away the first boot was 64/64/66/66/7/7/7/7... The way it should be.. weird..

BTW, @acoustic I have been having random shutdowns in the middle of gaming.. Like, the PC just powers off out of nowhere. I read your post about HCI... Maybe I should test that as well lol..


----------



## jomama22

Hi there!

Anyone run into error 13 running 1usmus_v3 and find a timing/voltage that helps alleviate it? Seem to really be stuck on that error. 

Thanks!


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> Hi there!
> 
> Anyone run into error 13 running 1usmus_v3 and find a timing/voltage that helps alleviate it? Seem to really be stuck on that error.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes sir. Too low tWR/WRPRE and/or too low VCCSA.


----------



## West.

TheSteez said:


> unfortunately i can't afford to invest anymore money into this stuff. Wish it was advertised that i needed to watercool the dimms to use a 1.6v xmp kit at its rated xmp voltage . I really think that's one thing the industry needs to be a bit more transparent on. Probably would have stayed on z390 or just gone back to console after my old chip died. A bit disappointed tbh, Spent 900 extra dollars to upgrade to z490/top ram and didn't getting any improvements on memory OC over what I had last gen, i'm actually getting less copy bandwidth at the same latency on a board that costed me more than double what I spent on my z390 board. I think i'm done here. Thanks for the tips, take care guys.


I have the same mem kit and posted 4600c17 result couple pages back. 4600 up is all about IMC. From what i’ve read, even 4700c17 requires high SA voltage like 1.5v to be 24/7 stable let alone xmp 4800c17. This kit is target towards 11th gen cpu with gear 2, at least for xmp profile… You are better off with gskill DR 4400c17 kit than the current kit, similar price more performance more capacity. I would do more DD before dropping 900.


----------



## 7empe

Imprezzion said:


> I am having a lot of problems getting my training to work again lol.
> 
> I changed a few things like turning off ReBAR and raising TREFI a bit (it was still stock 8xxx) and I tried to let it re train but now I always get like 75/75/74/74/13/13/11/11 or whatever and sometimes way out of whack like 68/68/74/74/7/7/13/13 or 68/68/72/72/11/11/13/13 or whatever but never the nice 65/65/66/66/7/7/7/7 I used to get...
> 
> What am I doing wrong lol.. Can I not just Ctrl alt delete from the BIOS to restart? Will that fail training and do I have to fully power off or something?
> 
> EDIT: Changed tRDWR's back to 14, had them on 12 but that is borderline on 4400C17 @ 1.50v on my kit and dropped tWRRD from 30/26 to 29/25 and straight away the first boot was 64/64/66/66/7/7/7/7... The way it should be.. weird..
> 
> BTW, @acoustic I have been having random shutdowns in the middle of gaming.. Like, the PC just powers off out of nowhere. I read your post about HCI... Maybe I should test that as well lol..


Hey. Random shutdowns is caused most often by the IMC not being fed with enough voltage. Try raising vccsa by 10 mV.


----------



## 7empe

Anyone interested in boosting the sodimm speed on the laptop with tighter timings including tertiaries?  got 2666c19 -> 3300c16 on i7-9750H (with unlocked bios of course). Stable 24/7. VDIMM 1.35V. Uncore offset +100 mV. DM if you need more details.


----------



## Imprezzion

7empe said:


> Hey. Random shutdowns is caused most often by the IMC not being fed with enough voltage. Try raising vccsa by 10 mV.


Went from 1.35v SA to 1.36v SA and it hasn't shut down again in Horizon 5 so far. Let's hope it stays that way.

Building sick drift cars is so much fun in FH5.. hehe.


----------



## TheSteez

West. said:


> I have the same mem kit and posted 4600c17 result couple pages back. 4600 up is all about IMC. From what i’ve read, even 4700c17 requires high SA voltage like 1.5v to be 24/7 stable let alone xmp 4800c17. This kit is target towards 11th gen cpu with gear 2, at least for xmp profile… You are better off with gskill DR 4400c17 kit than the current kit, similar price more performance more capacity. I would do more DD before dropping 900.


Hey hey,
thanks for the heads up, i appreciate it. I haven't tried c17 4600 yet. Tried 4700/4800 and those were clear nopes based on the sa/io requirements. I knew it was geared for 11th gen/z590 and I figured it would scale really well with sa/io as gskills newer 4266+ kits designed for 10gen/z490 required less sa/io on 9th/z390 at higher frequencies and lower CL than kits designed for z370/z390. I had some kits designed for z370 need 1.35v sa/io for c17/4266 on z390 and the 10th gen/z490 gskill c17 kits required 50mv less sa/io at the same or better CL at the same or higher frequency. The c17-4800 is very interesting so far though. I haven't given up. I did try adjusting ODTs for c15-4400 but didn't have any luck though I still have a couple tricks up my sleeve that I still need to try. I was however able to get c15-4330 validated this morning which was really really cool, one step closer to c15-4400. I think I have an idea how this kit scales on my IMC now. 4500-4533 trains rtls that are 2 apart, for example 67/69 at c16. iol of 7/7 for a tightened rtl of 60/62 was a no go at c16. I'm itching to find out if iols of 6/6 or 7/9 or 6/8 will deliver stability, haven't tried those yet. Or maybe 4500-4533 is a dead strap because of the 2 spacing at c16 or w/e. c17/4800 trained rtls 71/71, i forget what c17/4700 gave me. Gonna try c16/4600 and c17/4600 tonight after I work on c15-4400 some more. I thought about the c17/4400 dual ranked kit when I originally made my purchase but I figured that 2x8gb SR c17-4800 out performs it by a few percent so i went with that, but voltage requirements are much more than i thought they would be ;/. 

Do more DD? What is DD?


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> Building sick drift cars is so much fun in FH5.. hehe.


1993 Ford SVT Cobra R with a diesel swap 🙃

Formula Drift Dodge Viper can get a 7x multiplier through skill points, it's what I've been using to farm skill points in free roam


----------



## acoustic

****ing Newegg.. paid $20 for express shipping to be here today, and now it's showing the 17th. Label was created but UPS didn't receive the package until this evening.. they did absolutely nothing on Monday.

What a joke.


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> ****ing Newegg.. paid $20 for express shipping to be here today, and now it's showing the 17th. Label was created but UPS didn't receive the package until this evening.. they did absolutely nothing on Monday.
> 
> What a joke.


You might be able to get newegg to refund you on shipping.


----------



## TheSteez

[email protected]/4.533GHz 10C/10T [email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T 6,400%+ Karhu

Notes:

Windows updated to 20h2 or w/e version, memtweak it did not work when I tried loading it to display rtls/iols. Could probably run the cpu/ring up another 100-200mhz to increase bandwidth and decrease latency if I switch to adaptive or increase the vcore. May actually be able to lower vccsa/vccio to 1.25v based on yesterdays testing. Will decide on a final cpu/ring multiplier once I figure how low I can get first word latency down to at C15. Interesting note, this IMC seems to behave exactly like my 9900K IMC - VccSA and VccIO rails appear to be tied together and both seem to prefer being set to the same value. Much like my 9900K, The CPU itself seems to respond better to LLC5 than asus's recommended LLC4. It feels like the same cpu in many aspects even though they are 1 generation apart.

Rtls/iols : 58/58 7/7

TRFC:120ns

First word latency: 6.92840646

Bios set values:

1.55v/vdimm

1.3v/VccSA

1.3v/VccIO


----------



## TheSteez

PhoenixMDA said:


> You will see, but i don´t think it help´s acoustic.
> 
> 4400CL15 is a little bit much, for that it´s good watercooling on dimm, my Kit is very good and it need´s 1,57V to do that really stable.
> ODT 80/48/40 and the possible timings are also a question of the sticks.That is in my case one possibility of timings for 24/7.
> Vref not necessary and odt i think will do also on auto.
> View attachment 2532448


That is a damn good OC. What ram kit is that?


----------



## TheSteez

Maximus Apex XII [email protected]/4.4GHz 10C/10T [email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T 6,400%+ Karhu

Notes: Still have to figure out what core/ring multiplier i want to use but just wanted to get a working baseline for c15-4400 first so i used 48/44. I think these sticks still have room to go higher at C15, maybe another 100mhz or so. aida64 did end up reporting an even 35.0ns latency after I stopped recording the video lol. SD finished processing on the video, HD is processing as I post this. Silly me was using too much vdimm yesterday(1.6v) for c15-4400 which is probably why I couldn't stabilize it before. Gonna take a short break and cook up a couple steaks for dinner then get back to it.

Rtls/iols : 58/58 7/6

TRFC:120ns

First word latency: 6.81818181

Bios set values:

1.58v/vdimm

1.3v/VccSA

1.3v/VccIO


----------



## PhoenixMDA

TheSteez said:


> That is a damn good OC. What ram kit is that?


That are 2 better 16GB 4000C14 sticks that fit together.


----------



## TheSteez

PhoenixMDA said:


> That are 2 better 16GB 4000C14 sticks that fit together.


Ok so the c14 4000 16gb dr sticks can do c15 4400, nice.

I take it the c17 4400 16gb dr sticks are for clocking up at c17 or c16?


----------



## mickyc357

Have gigabyte changed their bioses to be able to tune RTL/IOL? I have the opportunity to get a z590 aorus xtreme real cheap for my 10900k but not going to spend the money if its still the same..


----------



## TheSteez

mickyc357 said:


> Have gigabyte changed their bioses to be able to tune RTL/IOL? I have the opportunity to get a z590 aorus xtreme real cheap for my 10900k but not going to spend the money if its still the same..


Go Asus bro. I used to have gigabyte. Asus bios and memory training is very good. check out karhu/linx result above. Gives an idea how good asus memory OC is regardless of degraded/defective cpu.


----------



## acoustic

mickyc357 said:


> Have gigabyte changed their bioses to be able to tune RTL/IOL? I have the opportunity to get a z590 aorus xtreme real cheap for my 10900k but not going to spend the money if its still the same..


Wouldn't touch gigabyte.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

TheSteez said:


> Ok so the c14 4000 16gb dr sticks can do c15 4400, nice.
> 
> I take it the c17 4400 16gb dr sticks are for clocking up at c17 or c16?


You must look what is possible with your IMC and Kit, in a really good combination is 4600+ possible, most reach arround 4400-4533.
CL16 is much easier to get stable as CL17, that can only rar kit in really stable.
my best possible is that.With my old Kit i have 4700CL17-17 GSat Memtest screen but that isn´t stable there was 4666CL17-17 the border
The most important is the 100% stability, in every boot and case.









and my 24/7 is that, has lower IO/SA


----------



## acoustic

New RAM didn't fix it  but these new sticks are gorgeous.

Going to pull the chip and inspect pins, and take a good look at the mobo traces. I leave soon and will be gone for three months so I'll likely RMA board and chip (if I can't narrow down which one) and just sell the replacements when I get back .. I'll just go buy ADL or hopefully HEDT platform will be available.

Rip to a fun board+chip


----------



## TheSteez

acoustic said:


> New RAM didn't fix it  but these new sticks are gorgeous.
> 
> Going to pull the chip and inspect pins, and take a good look at the mobo traces. I leave soon and will be gone for three months so I'll likely RMA board and chip (if I can't narrow down which one) and just sell the replacements when I get back .. I'll just go buy ADL or hopefully HEDT platform will be available.
> 
> Rip to a fun board+chip


Just curious, Where are you going for 3 months?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

acoustic said:


> New RAM didn't fix it but these new sticks are gorgeous.
> 
> Going to pull the chip and inspect pins, and take a good look at the mobo traces. I leave soon and will be gone for three months so I'll likely RMA board and chip (if I can't narrow down which one) and just sell the replacements when I get back .. I'll just go buy ADL or hopefully HEDT platform will be available.
> 
> Rip to a fun board+chip


Do Board RMA, i dont think that the cpu has a problem.
you have it never get really stable, perhaps a good choice to take ADL.Good performance per Watt but buy now the cpu if you want a good chip.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> Just curious, Where are you going for 3 months?


Deployment - I'm military



PhoenixMDA said:


> Do Board RMA, i dont think that the cpu has a problem.
> you have it never get really stable, perhaps a good choice to take ADL.Good performance per Watt but buy now the cpu if you want a good chip.


I took the chip out and inspected the CPU, socket pins, and mobo to the DIMMs.. nothing. CPU Block was maybe a little tight, but no damage to the substrate or die.

Re-installed chip, fresh LM, cleared CMOS and left CPU stock with XMP enabled (4000CL16 @ 1.4v) and it still shut down after 2nd time starting the test.

Do you think it could be an issue with HCI MemTestPro? I do not get any errors if the test actually starts. It'll pass overnight, pass TM5 Extreme1 + ABSOLUT .. the only thing that makes me think it's not the software is because I do not get the shutdowns if the memory is set to JEDEC 2133.

I'm going to test games with stock CPU and XMP RAM for tonight and see if I get any WHEA errors or issues..

Thank you guys for the input. This is definitely a weird issue ..


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@acoustic
I can say to you for a long time i had bought a Z390 Wifi XI for less, the seller had problem´s with stability.I have seen some socket pins was to low.
RamOC was only arround 3200 sometime´s CC or bluescreen i have fixe it and you really seen nothing on the socket pins, but 3900-4000 was the max bootable.
Stability not testet, i have changed the Board, max. pos. boot now with 4x8GB was 4500mhz.

I´m not able to see if the socket pin´s not 100% correct, the second board i have used the 8auer directdie there was the presure bad because the frame is not good,
after a half year the ramoc don´t work as same before.I have changedto rocket frame and have get 1 lower RTL/IOL for the first channel,
but i changed then also the board to be save and now was bootable up to 4600 and GSat stable up to 4400mhz with slope´s.

How good the contact is with the socket is very important in high frequency.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> @acoustic
> I can say to you for a long time i had bought a Z390 Wifi XI for less, the seller had problem´s with stability.I have seen some socket pins was to low.
> RamOC was only arround 3200 sometime´s CC or bluescreen i have fixe it and you really seen nothing on the socket pins, but 3900-4000 was the max bootable.
> Stability not testet, i have changed the Board, max. pos. boot now with 4x8GB was 4500mhz.
> 
> I´m not able to see if the socket pin´s not 100% correct, the second board i have used the 8auer directdie there was the presure bad because the frame is not good,
> after a half year the ramoc don´t work as same before.I have changedto rocket frame and have get 1 lower RTL/IOL for the first channel,
> but i changed then also the board to be save and now was bootable up to 4600 and GSat stable up to 4400mhz with slope´s.
> 
> How good the contact is with the socket is very important in high frequency.


Is there a method you take for putting the cpu in the direct die frame and mounting? I have noticed it is quite hard to get a good mount, some times you will notice weird rtl/iol training if the mount isn't perfect.I have the rockitcool frame also with optimus block.


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> Is there a method you take for putting the cpu in the direct die frame and mounting? I have noticed it is quite hard to get a good mount, some times you will notice weird rtl/iol training if the mount isn't perfect.I have the rockitcool frame also with optimus block.


I have the rockitcool frame as well and really didn't do anything special except be very careful to not over tighten one side and I have not used any washers or whatever just straight mount. I use a EK Supremacy EVO with stock mount and springs, haven't used any other springs or washers or stand offs. Mount is pretty much perfect if I bottom out the thumb nuts on the springs. 

Then again, I too have had random shutdowns in games, just never tested HCI specifically. We do have the same board, me and acoustic.. so it kinda makes me suspect the board itself.


----------



## TheSteez

Maximus Apex XII [email protected]/4.4GHz 10C/10T [email protected] 15-15-15-32-2T

GSKILL 2x8GB 17-19-19-39 1.6v ram kit

Notes: Turns out the bios prediction was wrong for 4.8ghz 10c/10t. Asus Bios prediction called for 1.295v LLC 5 which is why I failed LinX before at 35k problem size and higher. I lowered the vcore from 1.295v to 1.26v in order to pass 35k and 41720 problem sizes. Today I learned. I will be keeping the CPU and contacting intel to cancel the rma. My bad for making a stink about it.

LinX 0.9.11 41720 problem size 90%+ ram underload

First word latency: 6.81818181

Bios Set Values:

1.58v/Vdimm

1.3v/VccSA

1.3v/VccIO

1.26v/Vcore LLC 5


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> Is there a method you take for putting the cpu in the direct die frame and mounting? I have noticed it is quite hard to get a good mount, some times you will notice weird rtl/iol training if the mount isn't perfect.I have the rockitcool frame also with optimus block.


With the rocket frame i have no problems, clean up the cpu and set in the middle, and tighten each screw a little until tight enough.but i think it's not good to tighten too much the screws of the frame, also by my techN cooler i have only so much pressure that i cant move the cooler anymore, but not more.


----------



## TheSteez

PhoenixMDA said:


> With the rocket frame i have no problems, clean up the cpu and set in the middle, and tighten each screw a little until tight enough.but i think it's not good to tighten too much the screws of the frame, also by my techN cooler i have only so much pressure that i cant move the cooler anymore, but not more.


How much did your temps go down with direct die? I had my 10850k CPU professionally delidded by silicon lottery. I have it clocked at 4.8ghz all core 4.4 ghz cache 10C/10T but it still runs pretty hot in LinX 0.9.11 at about 1.12v/vmin. According to my latest LinX test, It got the hottest during the first loop, 93c, then it hovered between 80c-87c during the remaining loops. My 9900K ran about 90c in LinX 0.9.11 at the same clocks at a higher vmin(1.20v/vmin) but without a delid and thicker ihs(9th gen stock ihs was thicker than 10th gen). Kind of interested in going direct die but curious as to how much more my temps can be cut down when going from a delid to direct die. I looked for 10900k/10850k comparison data for delid vs direct die temperature results but I couldn't find anything, only found stock vs direct die temp results. Any idea as to much lower I can bring the temps down by switching from a delid/liquid metal to direct die/liquid metal on these chips?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

TheSteez said:


> How much did your temps go down with direct die? I had my 10850k CPU professionally delidded by silicon lottery. I have it clocked at 4.8ghz all core 4.4 ghz cache 10C/10T but it still runs pretty hot in LinX 0.9.11 at about 1.12v/vmin. According to my latest LinX test, It got the hottest during the first loop, 93c, then it hovered between 80c-87c during the remaining loops. My 9900K ran about 90c in LinX 0.9.11 at the same clocks at a higher vmin(1.20v/vmin) but without a delid and thicker ihs(9th gen stock ihs was thicker than 10th gen). Kind of interested in going direct die but curious as to how much more my temps can be cut down when going from a delid to direct die. I looked for 10900k/10850k comparison data for delid vs direct die temperature results but I couldn't find anything, only found stock vs direct die temp results. Any idea as to much lower I can bring the temps down by switching from a delid/liquid metal to direct die/liquid metal on these chips?


Look here, scroll for my directdie result, it´s a little bit lower.It was a little bit over 10°
[Sammelthread] - OC Prozessoren Intel Sockel 1200 (Comet Lake-S / Rocket Lake-S)


----------



## TheSteez

Can someone please tell me what is the general range of voltage required to go from 2T to 1T? I don't have much experience with 1T, pretty much only ever used 2T. Am I supposed to use tweak mode 2 for 1T?


----------



## bscool

TheSteez said:


> Can someone please tell me what is the general range of voltage required to go from 2T to 1T? I don't have much experience with 1T, pretty much only ever used 2T. Am I supposed to use tweak mode 2 for 1T?


I think you just have to test it yourself and it comes down to IMC also. Enable trace centering helped me get 1t stable.

Just my opinion you would have better luck getting 2x16 4400c16 stable than you are trying to get higher clocks or tighter timings on 2x8. Takes a good IMC for what you are doing vs 2x16 b die. And you will get similar or better performance on the 2x16.


----------



## TheSteez

bscool said:


> I think you just have to test it yourself and it comes down to IMC also. Enable trace centering helped me get 1t stable.
> 
> Just my opinion you would have better luck getting 2x16 4400c16 stable than you are trying to get higher clocks or tighter timings on 2x8. Takes a good IMC for what you are doing vs 2x16 b die. And you will get similar or better performance on the 2x16.


Unfortunately I don't have any more money to spend on ram . Would love to get a 2x16gb c14-4000 kit and push it to c15-4400 1T or 2T but i'm unemployed. I was lucky enough to get the z490 apex/c17-4800 ram kit(someone bought it for me). I suppose I can put the ram kit on my christmas wish list, maybe santa will pay me a visit next month provided i've been a good boy this year haha.


----------



## bscool

@Yeah I get it, or sell your current kit and pay the difference. Even the cheaper 2x16 will run 4400c16-17-17+ pretty easy. IMC is more likely the limit.

I actually have some extra DR I could send you, if you want a free Xmas gift . You are in the USA?


----------



## TheSteez

bscool said:


> @Yeah I get it, or sell your current kit and pay the difference. Even the cheaper 2x16 will run 4400c16-17-17+ pretty easy. IMC is more likely the limit.


I told you I have no money. Zero. Nada. I couldn't possibly pay the difference and I would be very unhappy with any ram kit that only did CL16-4400 or CL17-4400 on my IMC, regardless if it was 2x16gb or not.


----------



## TheSteez

bscool said:


> @Yeah I get it, or sell your current kit and pay the difference. Even the cheaper 2x16 will run 4400c16-17-17+ pretty easy. IMC is more likely the limit.
> 
> I actually have some extra DR I could send you, if you want a free Xmas gift . You are in the USA?


I just saw your post edit.  That's a VERY generous offer. Does it do c15-4400 at 1.58v/vdimm or less? I'm pretty sure my IMC is capped at 4400. I tried 4500+ a few times already and no luck, but i'm not pro like the other guys in this thread so i'm sure I have much to learn about higher frequencies. I am indeed in the USA. If the 2x16gb kit will do c15-4400 flat with trfc at 120ns and max trefi/tuned subs at 1.58v or less daily(linx/linpack/karhu/hci etc), i'll give you an address to send it to.


----------



## bscool

You are not going to find what you are looking for. Even if someone has it memeory that can run that it does not mean it will run on yours or anyone elses setup. Aim high though lol


----------



## TheSteez

bscool said:


> You are not going to find what you are looking for. Even if someone has it memeory that can run that it does not mean it will run on yours or anyone elses setup. Aim high though lol


Right now PhoenixMDA has me sold on the c14-4000 2x16gb bin after he showed the sticks doing c15-4400. Love that first word latency. I've got a friend who often buys me gifts for the holidays, i'll see if she is up for making the plunge. Would be nice to be on dual ranked again as long as I can match what I have now, or do better. Thanks again for the 2x16gb offer, very kind of you.


----------



## acoustic

TheSteez said:


> Right now PhoenixMDA has me sold on the c14-4000 2x16gb bin after he showed the sticks doing c15-4400. Love that first word latency. I've got a friend who often buys me gifts for the holidays, i'll see if she is up for making the plunge. Would be nice to be on dual ranked again as long as I can match what I have now, or do better. Thanks again for the 2x16gb offer, very kind of you.


Phoenix has both an extremely binned CPU as well as memory.. his setup is 1 in 1000.

I've decided to leave the rig as is. I've not had any issues so far .. HCI MemTestPro will still cause shutdowns, but I played an hour of Halo Infinite (btw, seems to be a good gaming test), ran Realbench overnight, TM5 Extreme1 + Absolut, and passed 2700% HCI MemTestPro (got it to start one time and let it roll).

I just read that Intel plans to introduce the HEDT platform in Q3 2022, and I just bought a house, so it'll give me some time to save up .. lol.

I read your posts, Phoenix, and I hear what you're saying. I've been running around like crazy today so haven't had a chance to type a response. I'm really tempted to drop back to Win10 to test HCI MemTestPro there, as it just doesn't make sense what's been going on. I nearly bought a Z690 APEX today but my Microcenter didn't have it anymore by the time I was done with the important stuff for the day .. honestly, kind of glad. I'll limp this rig along if I have to and hopefully it'll be worth it later next year.


----------



## Falkentyne

TheSteez said:


> Right now PhoenixMDA has me sold on the c14-4000 2x16gb bin after he showed the sticks doing c15-4400. Love that first word latency. I've got a friend who often buys me gifts for the holidays, i'll see if she is up for making the plunge. Would be nice to be on dual ranked again as long as I can match what I have now, or do better. Thanks again for the 2x16gb offer, very kind of you.


Phoenix has tweaked his system with skews, slopes, ODT's and everything to the absolute limit. You are not going to be able to match his results without spending weeks and weeks tweaking and experimenting.


----------



## Ichirou

Randomly popping in after having been away for a while; how tight are the G.Skill 4,000 MHz CL14 kits anyway? Any headroom or pretty much maxed out as-is already?

I might dive into DDR5 overclocking if I can nab some 6,000+ MHz sticks.


----------



## Imprezzion

Here in the Netherlands it's impossible to get DDR5. Only the lowest-end 4800 kits are somewhat available and they go for like €300-400 for a 32GB 4800 ValueRAM kit. So even if I want to it's not possible to get a DDR5 setup with a 12900K now.

I am actively looking for a 5900/5950X and s proper B550/X570 board but keeping my RAM. AMD already said the upcoming 3D V-Cache CPU's will be standard AM4 and run on normal B550/X570 boards so I wanna be on that platform before that becomes totally unavailable.

Do need a new waterblock tho if I do that..


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> Here in the Netherlands it's impossible to get DDR5. Only the lowest-end 4800 kits are somewhat available and they go for like €300-400 for a 32GB 4800 ValueRAM kit. So even if I want to it's not possible to get a DDR5 setup with a 12900K now.
> 
> I am actively looking for a 5900/5950X and s proper B550/X570 board but keeping my RAM. AMD already said the upcoming 3D V-Cache CPU's will be standard AM4 and run on normal B550/X570 boards so I wanna be on that platform before that becomes totally unavailable.
> 
> Do need a new waterblock tho if I do that..


Could just go adl with ddr4, cheaper and faster than zen 3.


----------



## TheSteez

Falkentyne said:


> Phoenix has tweaked his system with skews, slopes, ODT's and everything to the absolute limit. You are not going to be able to match his results without spending weeks and weeks tweaking and experimenting.


Sounds like a challenge. A challenge can be fun and rewarding. Right now ripjaws c14-4000 dual ranked kits are $600+ on ebay, holy crap, about a 50% price increase, just holy crap. I don't see myself ever buying the kit for myself at anywhere near ebay/scalper prices but i'd still ask for it as a gift. newegg has tzneo rgb dr kits in stock at this time but i'm past the rgb craze, easier to cool non-rgb sticks. Maybe newegg will get more ripjaws in before the end of the year. I'm still putting it on my wish list this year. Sadly I cannot afford to get into ADL to play with ddr5. It looks like an interesting platform, It strikes me as a hybrid of rocketlake chips and hedt chips mixed together.


----------



## Pro4TLZZ

anta777 said:


> My new config for tm5 - absolut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> absolutnew.cfg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bit.ly


Thank you, is there a list of what error codes correspond to?

For example I am getting error 6 after only 10m~ in this test.

At the moment I'm only using the manufacturers primary timings and everything is set to auto in my bios.

I found this thread which has some error code information








Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs


Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app




www.overclock.net




However it seems it only applies to MT.cfg and 1usmus_v3.cfg 


Thank you very much


----------



## acoustic

Pro4TLZZ said:


> Thank you, is there a list of what error codes correspond to?
> 
> For example I am getting error 6 after only 10m~ in this test.
> 
> At the moment I'm only using the manufacturers primary timings and everything is set to auto in my bios.
> 
> I found this thread which has some error code information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However it seems it only applies to MT.cfg and 1usmus_v3.cfg
> 
> 
> Thank you very much


Error 6 is typically IMC related - VCCSA or IO voltage may help stability.

I let the evil bug get me and grabbed an ASUS Z690 TUFPLUS and a 12700K as a stop-gap until Q3 2022 release of HEDT platform. Hopefully it's a good chip!


----------



## Imprezzion

YaqY said:


> Could just go adl with ddr4, cheaper and faster than zen 3.


I thought about it but Intel has no upgradability and even if I spend money on a DDR4 ADL board now it will be useless again after a few months.. 13xxx will probably knowing Intel not be Z690. Besides, I trust AMD new gen will be faster again and consume less then half the power plus I can keep my X570/B550 at that point.

And cheaper? Not here tho. Proper mid-range boards start at €260 and 12900K is €695. 5900X is €529 with mid-range B550 boards starting at €170. Way cheaper. And consumes way way less power. 

All I do with the rig is play games like BF2042, FH5, Far Cry 6, world of tanks and many others on a 3080. A 5900X would serve me just fine for 1080p.


----------



## Pro4TLZZ

acoustic said:


> Error 6 is typically IMC related - VCCSA or IO voltage may help stability.
> 
> I let the evil bug get me and grabbed an ASUS Z690 TUFPLUS and a 12700K as a stop-gap until Q3 2022 release of HEDT platform. Hopefully it's a good chip!


Thank you very much.

I'm running 1.224 VCCIO and 1.24 VCSSA which is different to what I set in the bios. I'll manually tweak the voltages and look for errors


acoustic said:


> Error 6 is typically IMC related - VCCSA or IO voltage may help stability.
> 
> I let the evil bug get me and grabbed an ASUS Z690 TUFPLUS and a 12700K as a stop-gap until Q3 2022 release of HEDT platform. Hopefully it's a good chip!


Thank you. I am currently using 1.2v for each. I will increase to 1.25 and test again edit: changed each to 1.25 and it worked. Passed 106 mins of absolut. Vccio was 1.28 average accordingly to hwinfo64 and VCSSA was 1.296. looks like v droop


Onto secondaries now!


----------



## YaqY

Imprezzion said:


> I thought about it but Intel has no upgradability and even if I spend money on a DDR4 ADL board now it will be useless again after a few months.. 13xxx will probably knowing Intel not be Z690. Besides, I trust AMD new gen will be faster again and consume less then half the power plus I can keep my X570/B550 at that point.
> 
> And cheaper? Not here tho. Proper mid-range boards start at €260 and 12900K is €695. 5900X is €529 with mid-range B550 boards starting at €170. Way cheaper. And consumes way way less power.
> 
> All I do with the rig is play games like BF2042, FH5, Far Cry 6, world of tanks and many others on a 3080. A 5900X would serve me just fine for 1080p.


The power consumption of alderlake in gaming applications is actually very low compared to stress testing. Lower than zen 3 in many reviews I’ve seen. To be honest a 12700k and ddr4 gear 1 around 4000 will beat a zen 3 system. Board doesn’t have to be special I’ve seen it done on low end Msi or Asus.


----------



## acoustic

@PhoenixMDA 

I think you were right and my MSI Z490 ACE was the bad part. I grabbed a 12700K and ASUS Z690 TUF as a stop-gap until Sapphire Rapids..

My DIMM temps are 10-12c lower at the exact same settings and same cooling. I think there was something seriously wrong with that ACE. Previously, even at 1.4v vDIMM, I was seeing 48c on DIMM(1). Now I'm getting 37c at 1.5v vDIMM..

I can also confirm on the exact same Windows install, HCI MemTestPro is no longer causing shutdowns.

Going to RMA the motherboard and sell the replacement board, chip, and the 3200CL15 kit of B-Die together.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

acoustic said:


> @PhoenixMDA
> 
> I think you were right and my MSI Z490 ACE was the bad part. I grabbed a 12700K and ASUS Z690 TUF as a stop-gap until Sapphire Rapids..
> 
> My DIMM temps are 10-12c lower at the exact same settings and same cooling. I think there was something seriously wrong with that ACE. Previously, even at 1.4v vDIMM, I was seeing 48c on DIMM(1). Now I'm getting 37c at 1.5v vDIMM..
> 
> I can also confirm on the exact same Windows install, HCI MemTestPro is no longer causing shutdowns.
> 
> Going to RMA the motherboard and sell the replacement board, chip, and the 3200CL15 kit of B-Die together.


I don´t think so that your temp difference has any to do with that, because so as i know, it´s a temp sensor with integrated SPD and transfer over I2C bus and not over the pin´s analog.


----------



## 7empe

Pro4TLZZ said:


> Thank you, is there a list of what error codes correspond to?
> 
> For example I am getting error 6 after only 10m~ in this test.
> 
> At the moment I'm only using the manufacturers primary timings and everything is set to auto in my bios.
> 
> I found this thread which has some error code information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However it seems it only applies to MT.cfg and 1usmus_v3.cfg
> 
> 
> Thank you very much


For TM5 Absolute and error 6 this may be the case:

cache instability - try increasing vcore and/or vccio
too low tWRPRE
too low tWRRD, especially check dg and sg.


----------



## Imprezzion

acoustic said:


> @PhoenixMDA
> 
> I think you were right and my MSI Z490 ACE was the bad part. I grabbed a 12700K and ASUS Z690 TUF as a stop-gap until Sapphire Rapids..
> 
> My DIMM temps are 10-12c lower at the exact same settings and same cooling. I think there was something seriously wrong with that ACE. Previously, even at 1.4v vDIMM, I was seeing 48c on DIMM(1). Now I'm getting 37c at 1.5v vDIMM..
> 
> I can also confirm on the exact same Windows install, HCI MemTestPro is no longer causing shutdowns.
> 
> Going to RMA the motherboard and sell the replacement board, chip, and the 3200CL15 kit of B-Die together.


Yeah well, this confirms that I will be selling my Z490 Ace as well. Only question now is Z690 D4 + 12900K vs X570 + 5900/5950X.. 

I will have a much better upgrade path on X570 but yeah.. Intel is obviously faster for now until AMD releases the 3D Cache versions of their new Ryzen..

AMD is much much cheaper tho...


----------



## acoustic

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah well, this confirms that I will be selling my Z490 Ace as well. Only question now is Z690 D4 + 12900K vs X570 + 5900/5950X..
> 
> I will have a much better upgrade path on X570 but yeah.. Intel is obviously faster for now until AMD releases the 3D Cache versions of their new Ryzen..
> 
> AMD is much much cheaper tho...


AMD isn't much cheaper (at least in the US) unless you're going 12900K or DDR5. I grabbed an ASUS TUF and 12700K for pretty cheap.

No guarantee 3D Cache covers the gap to ADL either, and Intel has said next year's chips will work with Z690 - so more upgrade path with Intel if you ask me.


----------



## acoustic

PhoenixMDA said:


> I don´t think so that your temp difference has any to do with that, because so as i know, it´s a temp sensor with integrated SPD and transfer over I2C bus and not over the pin´s analog.


I think the board was shooting more voltage than it was supposed to, or running some type of values into the sky. I meant to say that the DIMMs were definitely running considerably hotter on my ACE than they are in this TUF at the exact same settings - bad/dirty voltage maybe?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

acoustic said:


> I think the board was shooting more voltage than it was supposed to, or running some type of values into the sky. I meant to say that the DIMMs were definitely running considerably hotter on my ACE than they are in this TUF at the exact same settings - bad/dirty voltage maybe?


You will see if you have changed the board, bad ramoc with instabilty is often a problem with the socket pins.


----------



## acoustic

PhoenixMDA said:


> You will see if you have changed the board, bad ramoc with instabilty is often a problem with the socket pins.


I'll test it in a few months after the board RMA comes back. I suppose it's a little difficult to do an apples to apples comparison because I went from a 10900K / MSI Z490 ACE to 12700K / ASUS Z690 TUF -- I just carried forward the RAM.

I was running direct-die with the RockItCool direct-die frame with a Heatkiller IV Pro, so who knows. Maybe the direct-die frame wasn't putting enough pressure on the chip, or the socket/socket-pins were just not making good contact. I had tightened down my HKIV Pro pretty tight and the guy over at RockItCool said the frame works very well with the stock Heatkiller mount. Either way, I'm just glad to be done with that issue, and probably will be the last time I deviate from ASUS for mobos again. If they hadn't screwed me on the Z390 HERO, I would have stuck with them, but the Z390 HERO was an absolute piece of junk.


----------



## TheSteez

OK guys. I did some more testing today to see what my different options are. Not entirely sure where I want to go. I kind of like option 1 because of the lower voltage requirements. I really like option 3 because the performance is very good.


Option 1: HCI memtestpro 400% and realbench 2.56 stress test with 4.8 all core 4.4 ring hyperthreading on c15-4400 with the default v/f curve voltage for 4.8ghz with LLC 4 on adaptive voltage. This gives me vmin 1.083v and voltages goes down on idle. requires bios set values of 1.2v VccIO and 1.25v VccSA. This configuration offered the least amount of performance in RTS games out of the three options.

Option 2: linx 0.9.11 90%+ ram load 41720 problem size, prime95 112k fft fma3 in-place, p95 small fft fma3, hci/karhu, fma3 large etc 4.8 all core 4.4 ring hyperthreading disabled on c15-4400 manual vcore 1.26v set LLC 5. Vmin 1.19v. requires 1.3v VccIO 1.3v VccSA. 35k problem size requires 1.24v set LLC 5 Fairly good performance in RTS games.

Option 3: Realbench 2.56 stress test, hci/karhu 5.1 all core, 4.7 ring hyperthreading disabled on c15-4400 manual vcore 1.355v set LLC 5 Vmin 1.234v or something along those lines, VccIO 1.3v VccSA 1.3v. This offered the most performance in RTS games as the extra core/cache mhz really help.


Does it really matter if I don't use option 2 or should I be using option 2 since it passed the heavy tests?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

acoustic said:


> I'll test it in a few months after the board RMA comes back. I suppose it's a little difficult to do an apples to apples comparison because I went from a 10900K / MSI Z490 ACE to 12700K / ASUS Z690 TUF -- I just carried forward the RAM.
> 
> I was running direct-die with the RockItCool direct-die frame with a Heatkiller IV Pro, so who knows. Maybe the direct-die frame wasn't putting enough pressure on the chip, or the socket/socket-pins were just not making good contact. I had tightened down my HKIV Pro pretty tight and the guy over at RockItCool said the frame works very well with the stock Heatkiller mount. Either way, I'm just glad to be done with that issue, and probably will be the last time I deviate from ASUS for mobos again. If they hadn't screwed me on the Z390 HERO, I would have stuck with them, but the Z390 HERO was an absolute piece of junk.


I think with the Z690 it will be easier for you and you get a really great performance/watt. 
The Z390 Hero was a good board, but the difference between bootable and really stable was big,
it was really necessary ODT/slope´s to get it stable, for the most people was really hard to drive over 4000mhz,
i have reached as daily [email protected] 35,5ns 65,5k copy GSat stable.You don´t wont know how much hour´s and HW it has needed^^.

If you want a really 100% stable system never go to the OC limit on ram and CPU, it´s really difficult to get that stable.
I think it´s also easier to push DDR4 on Z690 stable arround 4000 as DDR5 in high frequency limit.


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> The power consumption of alderlake in gaming applications is actually very low compared to stress testing. Lower than zen 3 in many reviews I’ve seen. To be honest a 12700k and ddr4 gear 1 around 4000 will beat a zen 3 system. Board doesn’t have to be special I’ve seen it done on low end Msi or Asus.


Watt/fps AL is winning over Zen 3 in games


----------



## acoustic

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think with the Z690 it will be easier for you and you get a really great performance/watt.
> The Z390 Hero was a good board, but the difference between bootable and really stable was big,
> it was really necessary ODT/slope´s to get it stable, for the most people was really hard to drive over 4000mhz,
> i have reached as daily [email protected] 35,5ns 65,5k copy GSat stable.You don´t wont know how much hour´s and HW it has needed^^.
> 
> If you want a really 100% stable system never go to the OC limit on ram and CPU, it´s really difficult to get that stable.
> I think it´s also easier to push DDR4 on Z690 stable arround 4000 as DDR5 in high frequency limit.


The Z390 Hero I had was really rough. I ended up tossing it and replaced with a Z390 DARK. Blew the doors off the HERO.

I had a poor IMC on my 9900K though and that was mostly my limiting factor. I couldn't get 3800 to post once on the Hero but the DARK did it with some tweaking - the DARK also did not like dual-rank 2x16gb sticks so that was another factor I had to fight.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

acoustic said:


> The Z390 Hero I had was really rough. I ended up tossing it and replaced with a Z390 DARK. Blew the doors off the HERO.
> 
> I had a poor IMC on my 9900K though and that was mostly my limiting factor. I couldn't get 3800 to post once on the Hero but the DARK did it with some tweaking - the DARK also did not like dual-rank 2x16gb sticks so that was another factor I had to fight.


It´s a t-topology it´s necessary to use 4xsr sticks to reach higher frequency, for dual ranked is the board crap, but for 9900k it was the best board for performance with 32gb.
The board was really not bad.The best max. frequency has snakeyes from HWL reached with i think it was [email protected]^^.
Gsat 24/7
https://ibb.co/4sKfnzR

and bench setting for games
[email protected] without PPD/TXP









[email protected] with PPD 0 TXP 4


----------



## Ichirou

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think with the Z690 it will be easier for you and you get a really great performance/watt.
> The Z390 Hero was a good board, but the difference between bootable and really stable was big,
> it was really necessary ODT/slope´s to get it stable, for the most people was really hard to drive over 4000mhz,
> i have reached as daily [email protected] 35,5ns 65,5k copy GSat stable.You don´t wont know how much hour´s and HW it has needed^^.
> 
> If you want a really 100% stable system never go to the OC limit on ram and CPU, it´s really difficult to get that stable.
> I think it´s also easier to push DDR4 on Z690 stable arround 4000 as DDR5 in high frequency limit.


I definitely experienced this myself trying to push my RAM higher on my Prime Z390-A (which isn't high end at all).
I couldn't push my Micron B-die (4x16GB) kit past 4,174 MHz @ CL15 on 1.63V. I tried setting an even higher vDIMM, but it didn't do anything, so I think I hit mobo limit.

People here have told me to try fiddling around with ODT/slope, but no matter what I did, it would fail to boot if they weren't all on Auto.
I couldn't even find the manual baseline values that the mobo boots with on Auto, lol

My PC could boot _once_ at CL14, but it quickly BSOD'd afterwards. I don't recall what I did to get that to happen, though.
I think it involved having to move RAM sticks around the different slots, and also screwing around with DLLBwEn. I didn't take a note of what allowed it to boot.


----------



## ObviousCough

The IMC on my 12600k seems to want to act like rocket lake.










edit: it wasn't my IMC but the launch bios for the PRO Z690-A


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Ichirou said:


> I definitely experienced this myself trying to push my RAM higher on my Prime Z390-A (which isn't high end at all).
> I couldn't push my Micron B-die (4x16GB) kit past 4,174 MHz @ CL15 on 1.63V. I tried setting an even higher vDIMM, but it didn't do anything, so I think I hit mobo limit.
> 
> People here have told me to try fiddling around with ODT/slope, but no matter what I did, it would fail to boot if they weren't all on Auto.
> I couldn't even find the manual baseline values that the mobo boots with on Auto, lol
> 
> My PC could boot _once_ at CL14, but it quickly BSOD'd afterwards. I don't recall what I did to get that to happen, though.
> I think it involved having to move RAM sticks around the different slots, and also screwing around with DLLBwEn. I didn't take a note of what allowed it to boot.


With 4x16gb is that really good, that are no 4x8gb.


----------



## Ichirou

PhoenixMDA said:


> With 4x16gb is that really good, that are no 4x8gb.


Yeah, based on what others have said, 64GB is already hard to drive at that frequency and CL already, so I should be content lol
I think it might just be my mid-tier board's IMC maxing out. Should I try again on a 12th Gen? Heh


----------



## PhoenixMDA

You can try it^^.
I'm too satisfied with my system to change at this point, but gpu i need really the next gen and it take's so long.


----------



## Imprezzion

acoustic said:


> AMD isn't much cheaper (at least in the US) unless you're going 12900K or DDR5. I grabbed an ASUS TUF and 12700K for pretty cheap.
> 
> No guarantee 3D Cache covers the gap to ADL either, and Intel has said next year's chips will work with Z690 - so more upgrade path with Intel if you ask me.


If I decide to go ADL I will go DDR4 as there's zero reason with current pricing and availability to go DDR5 especially with a B-Die kit capable of 4400 17-17-17-38-328 with just 1.50v and tight secondaries on a bad 10900KF lol. 

Also, 12700K is pretty cheap here at €449 with the 12900K being €689 however, I can import a 12900K from Denmark for like €580 with no extra cost due to the EU not having import restrictions between member states so it's just 2-3 days of delivery time and that's it. There's a Danish shop that ships to the entire EU at no extra charge and even has a Dutch customer service and everything since they know people order a lot there for the Dutch market. 

All I have to decide on is a DDR4 board and a new waterblock as my old Supremacy EVO harvested out of a AIO Phoenix kit obviously doesn't qualify for S1700 mounts. Then again, I don't own the AM4 mounts either so have to get a new block either way. 

Basically the only 2 DDR4 boards that are kind of interesting are the MSI Z690 Edge @ €334 or the ASUS Strix-A at €349. Both hideously expensive for such simple mid-range boards but no other choice here.

I kinda don't wanna to MSI again and wanna go ASUS but the Edge is a much better looking board visually.


----------



## acoustic

The ASUS board has adapted holes to fit your block with LGA1200/1151 mounts


----------



## jayfkay

How long is Test 1 in [email protected] supposed to take? Like 2 minutes? 5 minutes?


----------



## Ichirou

jayfkay said:


> How long is Test 1 in [email protected] supposed to take? Like 2 minutes? 5 minutes?


Nobody can give you an exact time as durations of each test in TM5 depend entirely on RAM capacity and speed.


----------



## jayfkay

Ichirou said:


> Nobody can give you an exact time as durations of each test in TM5 depend entirely on RAM capacity and speed.


not exact just roughly, it took 10 minutes to finish Test 1 (simple memory test) on my last overclock on 32gb 3600 14 but I don't recall it taking that long with my 16gb kit


----------



## Ichirou

jayfkay said:


> not exact just roughly, it took 10 minutes to finish Test 1 (simple memory test) on my last overclock on 32gb 3600 14 but I don't recall it taking that long with my 16gb kit


32 GB would take "roughly" twice as long as the 16 GB kit, give or take a few minutes based on frequency and timings


----------



## bscool

@Imprezzion I have bought both MSI and Asus the last couple gens, Apex, Hero, Unify and Unify X. I am going Strix D4. Just my 2 cents. But both look good from initial feedback in 1200k OC forum. Some problems with each and for some each works great. Mixed bag as usual  I think a lot of problems come down to user error or lack of knowing how to trouble shoot and people just say one brand is bad when they have an issue.

Every brand has it good points and drawback. Good thing it is a free world and we can all choose


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> @Imprezzion I have bought both MSI and Asus the last couple gens, Apex, Hero, Unify and Unify X. I am going Strix D4. Just my 2 cents. But both look good from initial feedback in 1200k OC forum. Some problems with each and for some each works great. Mixed bag as usual  I think a lot of problems come down to user error or lack of knowing how to trouble shoot and people just say one brand is bad when they have an issue.
> 
> Every brand has it good points and drawback. Good thing it is a free world and we can all choose


I have always used mixed brands and do not prefer a specific brand on brand name alone but I just don't like the latest MSI boards not having certain BIOS features and then putting them in after a year saying it's all new (I'm looking at you PPD on MSI Z490). And dragon center / mystic light works great functionally but it's such a resource heavy, slow to start, badly translated, terrible UI having mess of a software... Almost on the level of Gigabyte lol. Aorus Engine is worse.. and so is their entire BIOS. I love the build quality and hardware choices Gigabyte makes. The cheap Aorus Elite D4 has better VRM then many way more expensive boards, but the BIOS and such is generally a total mess with Gigabyte. And so is RGB control. And that is where ASUS, imho, shines. By far the best BIOS, but far the best supportive software, Aura Sync and Armory Crate are way above other brands.. even if the boards are massively overpriced lol.

Oh and I would've gone TUF but the TUF does not have a headphone amp built-in and I need that for my DT770 Pro 80ohms..


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I have always used mixed brands and do not prefer a specific brand on brand name alone but I just don't like the latest MSI boards not having certain BIOS features and then putting them in after a year saying it's all new (I'm looking at you PPD on MSI Z490). And dragon center / mystic light works great functionally but it's such a resource heavy, slow to start, badly translated, terrible UI having mess of a software... Almost on the level of Gigabyte lol. Aorus Engine is worse.. and so is their entire BIOS. I love the build quality and hardware choices Gigabyte makes. The cheap Aorus Elite D4 has better VRM then many way more expensive boards, but the BIOS and such is generally a total mess with Gigabyte. And so is RGB control. And that is where ASUS, imho, shines. By far the best BIOS, but far the best supportive software, Aura Sync and Armory Crate are way above other brands.. even if the boards are massively overpriced lol.
> 
> Oh and I would've gone TUF but the TUF does not have a headphone amp built-in and I need that for my DT770 Pro 80ohms..


I've honestly noticed this myself. It feels like every company has their pros and cons, but ASUS is by far the most consistent of the bunch, with MSI and EVGA following closely afterwards.
ASRock has always been a weird one because of their unorthodox BIOS (which some swear by, so...), and Gigabyte tries to make up for a dodgy product by slapping on tons of high quality parts.

IMO, and I'm not one to show bias, but after I first bit the price premium bullet and shifted to ASUS from a mixture of the others, I swore never to swap back.
Their BIOS is by far the easiest to navigate and cleanest designed overall. Is it still clunky? In some places, yes, but it is at least clear and simple to use, with a great search function.


----------



## TheSteez

Ichirou said:


> I've honestly noticed this myself. It feels like every company has their pros and cons, but ASUS is by far the most consistent of the bunch, with MSI and EVGA following closely afterwards.
> ASRock has always been a weird one because of their unorthodox BIOS (which some swear by, so...), and Gigabyte tries to make up for a dodgy product by slapping on tons of high quality parts.
> 
> IMO, and I'm not one to show bias, but after I first bit the price premium bullet and shifted to ASUS from a mixture of the others, I swore never to swap back.
> Their BIOS is by far the easiest to navigate and cleanest designed overall. Is it still clunky? In some places, yes, but it is at least clear and simple to use, with a great search function.


Ya after working on my second desktop board ever, I can definitely see how each brand has their pros and cons.

I started with gigabyte on z390 which I enjoyed a fair bit. I shifted to an asus apex xii for z490. REALLY enjoying the apex board. Great bios. Couple small things they could improve on if they haven't already, when an item is left on auto in the bios, show the user what the value is set to while left on auto. This can help users have a baseline for settings. For example, ODTs, on auto, I don't know what they are because the bios doesn't tell me. Aside from that, I think it's a great product so far.


----------



## Ichirou

TheSteez said:


> when an item is left on auto in the bios, show the user what the value is set to while left on auto. This can help users have a baseline for settings. For example, ODTs, on auto, I don't know what they are because the bios doesn't tell me.


100% this. I've been bothered by this for the longest time, since I have no idea how to find the baseline values of many Auto settings since they don't have a box showing them.
It's also part of the reason why I've had trouble working with ODTs and slopes. I can't even find the manual baseline values to start with...


----------



## Agent-A01

Anyone have a dl link for msi dragon ball app?


----------



## The Pook

Agent-A01 said:


> msi dragon ball app







__





MSI Dragon Ball / Dragon Power Tools for Z690?


I saw some picture of ver 1.0.0.08 of MSI Dragon Ball and also a working Dragon Power Version for Z690. Anyone here can provide me a link for Download? On chinese websites i can only find ver 1.0.0.03 which does not work for Z690.



community.hwbot.org


----------



## Ichirou

Attempted to do 15-18-18-XX on my kit last night, which was previously stable at 15-19-19-36. Was able to boot, but not POST, with tRAS at 39 or 40 (all other values fail). Any ideas? Voltage tweaking, perhaps? I tried fiddling around a little with VDIMM, Vcore and VCCIO (and to a lesser extent VCCSA), but nothing seemed to work.


----------



## 7empe

Ichirou said:


> Attempted to do 15-18-18-XX on my kit last night, which was previously stable at 15-19-19-36. Was able to boot, but not POST, with tRAS at 39 or 40 (all other values fail). Any ideas? Voltage tweaking, perhaps? I tried fiddling around a little with VDIMM, Vcore and VCCIO (and to a lesser extent VCCSA), but nothing seemed to work.


Increasing VCCIO is pointless for tighting tRCD/tRP/tRC with the same frequency. I would tweak VDIMM. Also tighter tRCD is more stressful for IMC... you need to increase VCCSA too, but that won't be a 5 mV increase...


----------



## Ichirou

7empe said:


> Increasing VCCIO is pointless for tighting tRCD/tRP/tRC with the same frequency. I would tweak VDIMM. Also tighter tRCD is more stressful for IMC... you need to increase VCCSA too, but that won't be a 5 mV increase...


So higher VDIMM and higher VCCSA? Which is more meaningful? My VCCSA is stable at a low 1.20V right now, which is enough for 4,174 MHz.


----------



## 7empe

Honestly, if you're at 1.63V VDIMM now, I wouldn't go higher with that. But you have plenty room for VCCSA. Maybe higher VCCSA allows you to decrease VDIMM? For example: I am on a potato 10900K and 2x16GB dual rank memory. By default it is 4000 16-19-19-39. I can run it at 4000 14-15-15-32 with 1.565V VDIMM and 1.325 VCCSA. I can run it at 4533 16-17-17-35 with exactly the same VDIMM, but VCCSA is 1.41V.


----------



## Ichirou

7empe said:


> Honestly, if you're at 1.63V VDIMM now, I wouldn't go higher with that. But you have plenty room for VCCSA. Maybe higher VCCSA allows you to decrease VDIMM? For example: I am on a potato 10900K and 2x16GB dual rank memory. By default it is 4000 16-19-19-39. I can run it at 4000 14-15-15-32 with 1.565V VDIMM and 1.325 VCCSA. I can run it at 4533 16-17-17-35 with exactly the same VDIMM, but VCCSA is 1.41V.


I've always been under the impression that VCCSA was mainly used to increase the maximum frequency cap, though. At least, that is what Buildzoid claimed in one of his overclocking videos. What do you feel is a VCCSA value that I should try? This thread here seems to agree that it's okay to go up to 1.40V for VCCSA.

Admittedly, PC stability starts to go out the window once I break past 1.65V VDIMM, so it would be nice not to have to push that too high. To drive tCL @ 14, I have to be somewhere over 1.67V VDIMM (which is the minimum boot to OS voltage, but still unstable).


----------



## The Pook

everyone is going to give you a different number for what they consider safe for VCCIO/SA. I'd stay under 1.4v for 24/7 but you shouldn't need that much anyway.


----------



## Ichirou

The Pook said:


> everyone is going to give you a different number for what they consider safe for VCCIO/SA. I'd stay under 1.4v for 24/7 but you shouldn't need that much anyway.


All right, I'll experiment every value up until 1.4V then, just to see whether it helps in some fashion.


----------



## jvidia

Gen. said:


> Hello everyone.
> I am from Russia, many people here know this.
> I bought F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA 4000MHz 16-16-16-36-52-2T 1.400V XMP.
> As soon as it reaches me, I'll post it here.
> I am currently working on F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB 4000MHz 17-18-18-38-56-2T 1.400V XMP kit. RCD is bad here for one bar. While I'm trying to tune 4400 16-17-17-37-2T 1.490-1.510V to HERO XII (Wi-Fi) (I am fiddling with a full block of skew control + 10600KF (very strong percent, 5400/5200 1.350V Cinebench R23 and IMC about 1.2/1.24 for 4400CL16 IOL 8-8 on LinX 0.9.11)


Have you still got the F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA ?
Any good ? 
Looking for a 3800 CL14 capable 32gb kit.


----------



## KedarWolf

jvidia said:


> Have you still got the F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA ?
> Any good ?
> Looking for a 3800 CL14 capable 32gb kit.


Peeps with AMD 5000 series doing quite well with CL14 4000 2x16GB, it's likely the highest binned G.Skill.

I think it would do well on Intel too.


----------



## ViTosS

I definitely could get 4500CL16-17-17-37 stable if I was under water cooling, was causing 1 error after some time in TM5, sticks at 51-52c, and I passed now after the ambient temp is like 5c lower, also one interesting thing I found, I couldn't boot no matter what RTL 7/7 with 4500Mhz, it uses 100x100 multiplier, had to use 8/8, but at 4533Mhz 100x133 mutiplier I booted the first time easily 7/7, but not stable like 4500Mhz, I think if I had an Apex Z490 I could use 4400CL16-16-16-36 without problem or even more, my RAM scales quite good with more voltage, 4500Mhz I was able to pass with 1.59v and RAM heating up to 48c.


----------



## 7empe

KedarWolf said:


> Peeps with AMD 5000 series doing quite well with CL14 4000 2x16GB, it's likely the highest binned G.Skill.
> 
> I think it would do well on Intel too.


I have F4-4000C16-16GTZR kit from G.Skill and it does 4000C14-15-15-30, 4133C14-16-16-32 and 4533C16-17-17-35 (@10900KF, M12E mobo).


----------



## ViTosS

7empe said:


> I have F4-4000C16-16GTZR kit from G.Skill and it does 4000C14-15-15-30, 4133C14-16-16-32 and 4533C16-17-17-35 (@10900KF, M12E mobo).


What kind of voltages for the 4533C16-17-17-35 profile? DRAM, IO, SA, also what's the temp of the sticks during the stress test?


----------



## 7empe

ViTosS said:


> I definitely could get 4500CL16-17-17-37 stable if I was under water cooling, was causing 1 error after some time in TM5, sticks at 51-52c, and I passed now after the ambient temp is like 5c lower, also one interesting thing I found, I couldn't boot no matter what RTL 7/7 with 4500Mhz, it uses 100x100 multiplier, had to use 8/8, but at 4533Mhz 100x133 mutiplier I booted the first time easily 7/7, but not stable like 4500Mhz, I think if I had an Apex Z490 I could use 4400CL16-16-16-36 without problem or even more, my RAM scales quite good with more voltage, 4500Mhz I was able to pass with 1.59v and RAM heating up to 48c.


My F4-4000C16-16GTZR sticks at 4533 16-17-17-35 need 8/8 on M12E board. VDIMM 1.565V. Water cooled. What error number you get and in which test config?


----------



## 7empe

ViTosS said:


> What kind of voltages for the 4533C16-17-17-35 profile? DRAM, IO, SA, also what's the temp of the sticks during the stress test?


1.565, 1.34, 1.41 on potato 10900kf SP 53… (5.0 ghz all-core), 48x cache. Water cooled now, max temp 36C, but earlier on air cooling (120 mm fan) did the same with max temp 44C.


----------



## jvidia

KedarWolf said:


> Peeps with AMD 5000 series doing quite well with CL14 4000 2x16GB, it's likely the highest binned G.Skill.
> 
> I think it would do well on Intel too.


4000 Cl14 with the F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA? 

At what voltage?

Do you have this memory yourself?


----------



## ViTosS

7empe said:


> My F4-4000C16-16GTZR sticks at 4533 16-17-17-35 need 8/8 on M12E board. VDIMM 1.565V. Water cooled. What error number you get and in which test config?


Don't remember exactly, but 4533 wasn't temperature issue like 4500, 4533 is really the hard wall for my RAM I think at least on air cooling, I could get RTL 7/7 without problem, tried 8/8 didn't change anything in stability.


----------



## 7empe

jvidia said:


> 4000 Cl14 with the F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA?
> 
> At what voltage?
> 
> Do you have this memory yourself?


1.565V for 4000C14
1.600V for 4100C14

tCWL 12 in both cases.
Yes, it is my kit.
These voltages are values set in Bios. Pin readout using multimeter is -20 mV less. So my board works with a Vdroop on the memory rail. In fact these are 1.545V and 1.58V respectively.


----------



## jvidia

7empe said:


> 1.565V for 4000C14
> 1.600V for 4100C14
> 
> tCWL 12 in both cases.
> Yes, it is my kit.
> These voltages are values set in Bios. Pin readout using multimeter is -20 mV less. So my board works with a Vdroop on the memory rail. In fact these are 1.545V and 1.58V respectively.
> 
> View attachment 2534588
> View attachment 2534589
> 
> View attachment 2534591
> View attachment 2534592


That's great news! Thank you for your feedback.

What temperature do they reach at those voltages? Do you use a fan?

And will they do 3800mhz [email protected]? That my main MHz goal because I'm on Ryzen.

PS: the memory in your signature is not the same. Is it not updated?


----------



## 7empe

jvidia said:


> That's great news! Thank you for your feedback.
> 
> What temperature do they reach at those voltages? Do you use a fan?
> 
> And will they do 3800mhz [email protected]? That my main MHz goal because I'm on Ryzen.
> 
> PS: the memory in your signature is not the same. Is it not updated?


Hey.
I have a water block on them. Max temp is around 36C. I can try 3800CL14 at 1.5V and will let you know.

These are the same sticks I have in my signature. I took part number from the G.SKILL website for my kit... However this is what Thaiphoon says:









And I will change signature accordingly. Thanks for pointing this out!

*EDIT:* I tried 3800C14 and it seems that 1.48V is required for stability (1.46V in reality). 1.47V (1.45V) starts to pop some errors. I recalibrated RTLs/IOLs only. Did not touch timings though - same as for 4000 MHz.


----------



## jvidia

7empe said:


> Hey.
> I have a water block on them. Max temp is around 36C. I can try 3800CL14 at 1.5V and will let you know.
> 
> These are the same sticks I have in my signature. I took part number from the G.SKILL website for my kit... However this is what Thaiphoon says:
> 
> View attachment 2534624
> 
> And I will change signature accordingly. Thanks for pointing this out!
> 
> *EDIT:* I tried 3800C14 and it seems that 1.48V is required for stability (1.46V in reality). 1.47V (1.45V) starts to pop some errors. I recalibrated RTLs/IOLs only. Did not touch timings though - same as for 4000 MHz.
> 
> View attachment 2534628


Thank you very much for your kind feedback mate !

I've placed an order on them (F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA) from an Amazon in Europe but they are out of stock ... must be patient wait 

So the Thaiphoon identifies the F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA as being F4-4000C16-16GTZR. Weird.
Must be a bug or it needs an update.
That name is in a "database" of the Thaiphoon or does it read it in real time from the memory sticks?
If it the 2nd option, then GSkill failled to rename those sticks.

PS: yes change your sig


----------



## 7empe

jvidia said:


> Thank you very much for your kind feedback mate !
> 
> I've placed an order on them (F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA) from an Amazon in Europe but they are out of stock ... must be patient wait
> 
> So the Thaiphoon identifies the F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA as being F4-4000C16-16GTZR. Weird.
> Must be a bug or it needs an update.
> That name is in a "database" of the Thaiphoon or does it read it in real time from the memory sticks?
> If it the 2nd option, then GSkill failled to rename those sticks.


I have no idea why there is a difference in the naming. Maybe both are valid. I think that part number is read from SPD, it is present after access to the registry address of the RAM stick. I believe that TZR is also correct, based on GSKILL webshop. I bought them few months ago, just before it became impossible to buy not only GPUs but also any other good PC parts…


----------



## acoustic

I have the 4000C16-32GTRSA and they are excellent. 4000 15-15-15-28 @ 1.55v (could probably get lower).. but right now I'm at 3733 14-14-14-28-270 @ 1.50v vDIMM due to a ****ty IMC or immature BIOS..


----------



## ViTosS

What is ''Lucky Mode'' in MSI BIOS? What does it do? It says ''may enhance RAM OC potential'' something like that, is it true?

I was able to pass 4500CL16 but after reboot and running the test again I lost the stability, it doesn't happen with 4400CL16, I never know how to counter that, I even tried those ODT/Skews thing without success.


----------



## 7empe

ViTosS said:


> What is ''Lucky Mode'' in MSI BIOS? What does it do? It says ''may enhance RAM OC potential'' something like that, is it true?
> 
> I was able to pass 4500CL16 but after reboot and running the test again I lost the stability, it doesn't happen with 4400CL16, I never know how to counter that, I even tried those ODT/Skews thing without success.


One thing, what are your VRM switching frequency settings for DRAM, VCCIO and DMI voltage?


----------



## ViTosS

7empe said:


> One thing, what are your VRM switching frequency settings for DRAM, VCCIO and DMI voltage?


Never changed that, probably on AUTO.


----------



## storm-chaser

Hi Guys.

I have DDR4 4133 Patriot B die CL 19 kit.... Can someone help me get the secondaries dialed in, I've been told I should be seeing under 40ns latency at CL 17, but right now, clocked at 4200 CL 17, I am getting about 44.6ns in aida64. If I go to* 17-16-16-34 CR2 latency = 43.2 ns*

View attachment 2535371


*Remaining specs:*
View attachment 2535370



The MEG z390 ace board I have, has a memory try it feature so that is what I've been using at 4200MHz. I can confirm the memory should be stable at this speed and even at slightly lower timings. Right now I'm at about 1.4volts.


----------



## 7empe

storm-chaser said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> I have DDR4 4133 Patriot B die CL 19 kit.... Can someone help me get the secondaries dialed in, I've been told I should be seeing under 40ns latency at CL 17, but right now, clocked at 4200 CL 17, I am getting about 44.6ns in aida64. If I go to* 17-16-16-34 CR2 latency = 43.2 ns*
> 
> View attachment 2535371
> 
> 
> *Remaining specs:*
> View attachment 2535370
> 
> 
> 
> The MEG z390 ace board I have, has a memory try it feature so that is what I've been using at 4200MHz. I can confirm the memory should be stable at this speed and even at slightly lower timings. Right now I'm at about 1.4volts.


Hi.

I guess it is 2x16GB kit?

If you want to decrease latency then go higher with frequency (I don't believe 4200 is the limit) and set tXP=4 (exit power down in clock cycles), PPD=0 (power down mode off) in the BIOS' memory settings section. Also, increasing the ring ratio reduces the latency.


----------



## storm-chaser

7empe said:


> Hi.
> 
> I guess it is 2x16GB kit?
> 
> If you want to decrease latency then go higher with frequency (I don't believe 4200 is the limit) and set tXP=4 (exit power down in clock cycles), PPD=0 (power down mode off) in the BIOS' memory settings section. Also, increasing the ring ratio reduces the latency.


Yes. Screenshots to follow. Going to start with the 17-16-16-34 CR2 kit, and then update you with progress after changing those settings.


----------



## storm-chaser

7empe said:


> One thing, what are your VRM switching frequency settings for DRAM, VCCIO and DMI voltage?


I think I always use 1000MHz as a switching frequency. Is this best for optimal OC performance? 

Is AIDA memory test sufficient to prove mem OC stability? How many hours?


----------



## storm-chaser

ViTosS said:


> What is ''Lucky Mode'' in MSI BIOS? What does it do? It says ''may enhance RAM OC potential'' something like that, is it true?


I'm assuming this is a memory "try it" option that MSI has had on some of their boards in the last few years, but I could be wrong. 

This will allow you to select a pre-supplied timing and speed configuration to see if your memory can actually handle it without having to do everything manually.


----------



## 7empe

storm-chaser said:


> Yes. Screenshots to follow. Going to start with the 17-16-16-34 CR2 kit, and then update you with progress after changing those settings.


Why not 16-17-17-34?


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> One thing, what are your VRM switching frequency settings for DRAM, VCCIO and DMI voltage?


Have you noticed that DMI voltage and VRM switching frequency change stability?


----------



## 7empe

YaqY said:


> Have you noticed that DMI voltage and VRM switching frequency change stability?


Hard to tell. It can be hardware specific, however what works for me is:

DRAM VRM - higher is not always better. Better stability with 350 kHz right now than it was with 450 kHz.
DMI voltage - always one voltage tick above VCCIO (that's how it behaves on auto), however if seeing issues with crashes (e.g. during P95 112k and then "Load VGA BIOS" POST code), it may be enough to move DMI voltage one tick higher than increasing VCCIO.


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> Hard to tell. It can be hardware specific, however what works for me is:
> 
> DRAM VRM - higher is not always better. Better stability with 350 kHz right now than it was with 450 kHz.
> DMI voltage - always one voltage tick above VCCIO (that's how it behaves on auto), however if seeing issues with crashes (e.g. during P95 112k and then "Load VGA BIOS" POST code), it may be enough to move DMI voltage one tick higher than increasing VCCIO.


What would be the load vga bios code on Asus?


----------



## mouacyk

storm-chaser said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> I have DDR4 4133 Patriot B die CL 19 kit.... Can someone help me get the secondaries dialed in, I've been told I should be seeing under 40ns latency at CL 17, but right now, clocked at 4200 CL 17, I am getting about 44.6ns in aida64. If I go to* 17-16-16-34 CR2 latency = 43.2 ns*
> 
> View attachment 2535371
> 
> 
> *Remaining specs:*
> View attachment 2535370
> 
> 
> 
> The MEG z390 ace board I have, has a memory try it feature so that is what I've been using at 4200MHz. I can confirm the memory should be stable at this speed and even at slightly lower timings. Right now I'm at about 1.4volts.


To get sub 40ns, you will need to increase cache clock from 4.5GHz also. I needed 4.7GHz+ to do so. At 4.9GHz, I'm at 37.3ns. At 4.7GHz, around 39ns.


----------



## storm-chaser

mouacyk said:


> To get sub 40ns, you will need to increase cache clock from 4.5GHz also. I needed 4.7GHz+ to do so. At 4.9GHz, I'm at 37.3ns. At 4.7GHz, around 39ns.


Whats the highest reliable clock speed you can get out of the IMC?


----------



## storm-chaser

mouacyk said:


> To get sub 40ns, you will need to increase cache clock from 4.5GHz also. I needed 4.7GHz+ to do so. At 4.9GHz, I'm at 37.3ns. At 4.7GHz, around 39ns.


Nice CPU list in your sig. I've had most of those older ones, very similar progression. Reason I am bringing it up, slightly off topic but its clear you have worked with the 1680v2. Just purchased a system to put one in for overclocking, PM you later about that. I'm going to use throttlestop or XTU?. I just started a build log for it, you can go there and you are welcome to post there as well. I paid $93 for the processor.


----------



## storm-chaser

mouacyk said:


> To get sub 40ns, you will need to increase cache clock from 4.5GHz also. I needed 4.7GHz+ to do so. At 4.9GHz, I'm at 37.3ns. At 4.7GHz, around 39ns.


Okay made a little progress...










I still feel like I'm missing something here. My latency is substantially higher than yours in the same/similar configuration.


----------



## Larkonian

storm-chaser said:


> I have DDR4 4133 Patriot B die CL 19 kit.... Can someone help me get the secondaries dialed in, I've been told I should be seeing under 40ns latency at CL 17, but right now, clocked at 4200 CL 17, I am getting about 44.6ns in aida64. If I go to* 17-16-16-34 CR2 latency = 43.2 ns*


 Post a screenshot of your settings (Asrock Timing Configurator)



storm-chaser said:


> Is AIDA memory test sufficient to prove mem OC stability? How many hours?


I recommend TestMem5 with anta777 extreme or absolut profiles.


----------



## storm-chaser

Larkonian said:


> Post a screenshot of your settings (Asrock Timing Configurator)
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend TestMem5 with anta777 extreme or absolut profiles.


I know the NB is lower for this snip, but I am aware of it and still at the high speeds I'm missing at least 4-5 of latency IMHO.


----------



## Larkonian

storm-chaser said:


> I know the NB is lower for this snip, but I am aware of it and still at the high speeds I'm missing at least 4-5 of latency IMHO.


You want to lower tRFC, this helps AIDA latency a lot. Samsung B-Die can go very low, I would start with 370 and test that. You can refer to this: tRFC Chart

Your RTLs are also a bit high, not sure how you lower those on MSI boards but you should be able to do 62-64 at 4200 on 4-dimm Z390. Try to find something called IO Compensation in the bios and try changing both CHA and CHB up or down and see if the RTL numbers change.

As for other timings (not necessary latency related), set tCWL to 16 and lower tWRPRE by 6 but leave tWR on auto.
Also lower tRRD_S to 6.

Those are all VERY safe settings.


----------



## 7empe

If you have an ASUS motherboard and during high frequency memory overclock you are experiencing troubles with POST while using Maximus Tweak Mode 2, but Mode 1 POSTs successfully, then go back to your slope settings!

*Vivisection:*

In my case 4533C16 could POST only in Mode 1, but... it was sometimes GSAT/TM5 stable, sometimes completely not. I could POST 4500C16 in Mode 2 and it was *always *stable. Why the hell I cannot POST with Mode 2 for 4533C16? Maybe this has something with stability sine wave I'm experiencing while using Mode 1?

And yes... I had following slope settings:

*6*/1/7/0 (data)
8/1/7/0 (cmd)
7/1/8/0 (ctl)
7/1/7/0 (clk)

And this is how they should look like for successful Mode 2 which gives me 24/7 stability:

*7*/1/7/0 (data)
8/1/7/0 (cmd)
7/1/8/0 (ctl)
7/1/7/0 (clk)

Too narrow data raise slope was causing an issue.

So, if every possible set of voltages/timings/prayers fails to stabilize the frequency you dream of, and your in the false-stability region, then don't underestimate the slopes!

*1.31V VCCIO, 1.34V VCCSA, 1.56V VDRAM / 4-DIMMer Maximus Extreme XII:*


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> If you have an ASUS motherboard and during high frequency memory overclock you are experiencing troubles with POST while using Maximus Tweak Mode 2, but Mode 1 POSTs successfully, then go back to your slope settings!
> 
> *Vivisection:*
> 
> In my case 4533C16 could POST only in Mode 1, but... it was sometimes GSAT/TM5 stable, sometimes completely not. I could POST 4500C16 in Mode 2 and it was *always *stable. Why the hell I cannot POST with Mode 2 for 4533C16? Maybe this has something with stability sine wave I'm experiencing while using Mode 1?
> 
> And yes... I had following slope settings:
> 
> *6*/1/7/0 (data)
> 8/1/7/0 (cmd)
> 7/1/8/0 (ctl)
> 7/1/7/0 (clk)
> 
> And this is how they should look like for successful Mode 2 which gives me 24/7 stability:
> 
> *7*/1/7/0 (data)
> 8/1/7/0 (cmd)
> 7/1/8/0 (ctl)
> 7/1/7/0 (clk)
> 
> Too narrow data raise slope was causing an issue.
> 
> So, if every possible set of voltages/timings/prayers fails to stabilize the frequency you dream of, and your in the false-stability region, then don't underestimate the slopes!
> 
> *1.31V VCCIO, 1.34V VCCSA, 1.56V VDRAM / 4-DIMMer Maximus Extreme XII:*
> View attachment 2535618


Mode 2 doesn't work for me on DR at those frequencies on the XII Apex, it goes to postcode 3F then to 55.


----------



## 7empe

YaqY said:


> Mode 2 doesn't work for me on DR at those frequencies on the XII Apex, it goes to postcode 3F then to 55.


Yep. I had exactly the same q-codes. I gave up after 2 months of searching for the reason - I thought it may be mobo limitation (I am on Extreme XII, which is 4-dimmer). You should be able to POST with Mode 2 on Apex 100%. Look on the slopes, maybe data signal is too narrow? I have DR too.


----------



## 7empe

7empe said:


> Yep. I had exactly the same q-codes. I gave up after 2 months of searching for the reason - I thought it may be mobo limitation (I am on Extreme XII, which is 4-dimmer). You should be able to POST with Mode 2 on Apex 100%. Look on the slopes, maybe data signal is too narrow? I have DR too.


Now I can also POST with 4600 CL16 and seems to be quite stable with 1.31V VCCIO, 1.40V VCCSA and 1.585V VDIMM. More testing to come.


----------



## YaqY

7empe said:


> Now I can also POST with 4600 CL16 and seems to be quite stable with 1.31V VCCIO, 1.40V VCCSA and 1.585V VDIMM. More testing to come.


I have tried Data Slopes from 5-15 and nothing worked cleanly, it managed to post once on auto but didn't happen again.


----------



## Ichirou

Regarding RTTs, I tried 80-48-0 earlier and it did not boot, but 80-48-34 did and also passed TM5 with -0.01V VDIMM less (albeit I forgot to re-enable my RTL/IOL settings, so it's not entirely accurate). For those experienced, is RTT "less = better", or not necessarily?

Also, what exactly are slopes? I'm supposed to enter numbers into those fields, but I have no idea what they are or what they do.


----------



## TheSteez

I was gifted gskill ripjaws 2x16gb c17-4400, just arrived in the mail today. Can pass linX 35k at 4.7ghz all core 4.4 ring with 17-18-18-38-2t mode 1 64/64/65/65 8/8/8/8 but it won't let me tune the tertiaries except ppd. 1.3v IO, 1.35v SA, 1.5v. z490/apex xii/10850k. When I restart it goes to code 55. Is this kit defective or something? Am i doing something wrong? Please give me pointers. I'm using a stable cpu oc profile to start with. @Shamino @GSKILL SUPPORT please give me guidance


----------



## Ichirou

TheSteez said:


> I was gifted gskill ripjaws 2x16gb c17-4400, just arrived in the mail today. Can pass linX 35k at 4.7ghz all core 4.4 ring with 17-18-18-38-2t mode 1 64/64/65/65 8/8/8/8 but it won't let me tune the tertiaries except ppd. 1.3v IO, 1.35v SA, 1.5v. When I restart it goes to code 55. Is this kit defective or something? Am i doing something wrong? Please give me pointers. I'm using a stable cpu oc profile to start with. @Shamino please give me guidance


Try undoing and redoing the RTL/IOLs


----------



## TheSteez

Ichirou said:


> Try undoing and redoing the RTL/IOLs



with round trip latency and turn around timing enabled? Also is there any way to reduce system agent requirements to 1.3v? I have 1.35v in the bios but in windows underload it is 1.378v. Was hoping I could do sa/io both at 1.3v for this kit. 1.3v bios set for sa/io gives 1.312v to 1.328v under load with my 2x8gb kit. was hoping to stay under 1.35v for daily if possible since the motherboard shows the redzone starting at 1.35v


----------



## TheSteez

constant code 55s, even on retrain from scratch now. I think i'm gonna have the person who bought it for me return it for a refund.


----------



## Ichirou

TheSteez said:


> with round trip latency and turn around timing enabled? Also is there any way to reduce system agent requirements to 1.3v? I have 1.35v in the bios but in windows underload it is 1.378v. Was hoping I could do sa/io both at 1.3v for this kit. 1.3v bios set for sa/io gives 1.312v to 1.328v under load with my 2x8gb kit. was hoping to stay under 1.35v for daily if possible since the motherboard shows the redzone starting at 1.35v


Pretty sure there's always an inevitable jump in IMC voltage when you go past the 4,200-4,300 MHz area.
If you want to go with super low IMC voltages, just reduce frequency and tighten timings (CAS latency) instead. You can see my SA/IO in my signature, for example.

I can likely go below 1.20V VCCSA, but I haven't bothered to tighten it that hard since it's not all that important.


----------



## TheSteez

Ichirou said:


> Pretty sure there's always an inevitable jump in IMC voltage when you go past the 4,200-4,300 MHz area.
> If you want to go with super low IMC voltages, just reduce frequency and tighten timings (CAS latency) instead. You can see my SA/IO in my signature, for example.


Nah i didn't request this kit for christmas to not get 4400mhz out of it with fully tuned timings. My 2x8gb c17-4800 kit gives me c15-4400 with fully tuned timings which I was happy with but this new kit won't even maintain stability between restarts/retrains even with 1.3v/1.35v io/sa. I can't keep this kit if it won't even run at 4400mhz and reasonable volts with fully tuned timings.


----------



## Ichirou

TheSteez said:


> Nah i didn't request this kit for christmas to not get 4400mhz out of it with fully tuned timings. My 2x8gb c17-4800 kit gives me c15-4400 with fully tuned timings which I was happy with but this new kit won't even maintain stability between restarts/retrains even with 1.3v/1.35v io/sa. I can't keep this kit.


Have you tried testing individual sticks/reseating/putting in the other kit to retrain BIOS?


----------



## TheSteez

Ichirou said:


> Have you tried testing individual sticks/reseating/putting in the other kit to retrain BIOS?


I'll reseat the sticks. If it doesn't work/let me tune all the timings/maintain stability at reasonable volts then i'm sending this kit back.


----------



## TheSteez

EDIT: Again, i'm such a rookie sometimes. just panicked my bad, didn't mean to seem like i'm spamming. sorry.


----------



## TheSteez

EDIT: I'm such a rookie sometimes.


----------



## The Pook

_ghosts _


----------



## TheSteez

EDIT: One of the dimms preferred being in a different slot. no code 55s. Forgot to switch them around after reseating and just remembered. I'm a dummy. Sorry.


----------



## YaqY

TheSteez said:


> Hello? Can i have the bios back that I was using yesterday? That bios didn't code 55.


You need to chill out dude and stop spamming… try swapping the sticks around and try different tcwl values with trdwr pairings. For cl17 trdrd sg 6 is better and twrwr sg 6 should be tested.


----------



## TheSteez

YaqY said:


> You need to chill out dude and stop spamming… try swapping the sticks around and try different tcwl values with trdwr pairings. For cl17 trdrd sg 6 is better and twrwr sg 6 should be tested.



Yeah my bad i'm sorry man. I just get all panicky sometimes. I'm sorry. I switched the sticks around to different slots and it seems that i'm not getting code 55s. Putting through hci right now with somewhat tuned secondaries and loose rtls. After I do the tertiaries will have to tighten the rtls/iols etc. Sorry again, did not mean to spam at all, was just panicking.


----------



## 7empe

Ichirou said:


> Regarding RTTs, I tried 80-48-0 earlier and it did not boot, but 80-48-34 did and also passed TM5 with -0.01V VDIMM less (albeit I forgot to re-enable my RTL/IOL settings, so it's not entirely accurate). For those experienced, is RTT "less = better", or not necessarily?
> 
> Also, what exactly are slopes? I'm supposed to enter numbers into those fields, but I have no idea what they are or what they do.


*RTTs:*
RTTs refer to the resistance of the on-die termination points. High frequency signals are unfortunatelly prone to reflections that happen when signal hits the point of the different resistance on its path. More reflections = more signal distortions = more difficult to stabilize the memory OC. RTTs are quite motherboard specific. Also IMC quality and RAM frequency matters due to the above. RTTs is nothing as timings, therfore it does not mean that less is better. The better is what gives you constant stability for given RAM OC. For me the 80-40-48 works the best (WR-NOM-PARK) but it does it mean that this will work for you. However this seems to be the good starting point for 4-dimm and 2-dimm motherboards.

*Slopes:*
Digital signal has a rising edge and falling edge. If rising then it goes from logical 0 to logical 1, falling is the opposite. Logical 0 is recognized as voltage at the level X, while 1 is the voltage at the level X+Y. Somewhere in between there is a voltage point where 0 no longer is recognized as 0 but becomes 1 - this is a DRAM VTT voltage being usually set to (X+Y)/2, where (X+Y) is a VDIMM.

Now, going from 0 to 1 does not happen immediately. It takes some clock ticks to raise the voltage. Here the slopes jumps in. Slope define how steep or how mild the signal's edge will be. Slopes are in a range from 1 to 15 and it is given in clock ticks. 1 = the most steep, 15 = mild. As your frequency goes up, the clock ticks are shorter and even with the same settings applied to the slopes, the shape of the signal will be different (slope value=7 for 4000 MHz is less steep than for 4400 MHz).

There are four signals you can set slopes for: data, command, clock, control. You can also adopt an offset for each signal's edge, 0 = offset disabled, 1 = offset enabled.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

YaqY said:


> Mode 2 doesn't work for me on DR at those frequencies on the XII Apex, it goes to postcode 3F then to 55.


Question of the Kit, some kann do Mode 2 also in higher Frequency, then also like 4200+ 1T possible.
My Kit can do it easy up to 4400 out of the box and 4533 is possible but not good^^, without Mode 2 is much easier to go higher,
so i have don´t spend time in that.
If your Kit can´t do it out of the box in higher frequency forget itAll other Kit´s i had wasn´t able to do this in higher frequency like 4200,
but in Mode 1 up to 4666CL17-17 in stable was possible.


----------



## 7empe

PhoenixMDA said:


> Question of the Kit, some kann do Mode 2 also in higher Frequency, then also like 4200+ 1T possible.
> My Kit can do it easy up to 4400 out of the box and 4533 is possible but not good^^, without Mode 2 is much easier to go higher,
> so i have don´t spend time in that.
> If your Kit can´t do it out of the box in higher frequency forget itAll other Kit´s i had wasn´t able to do this in higher frequency like 4200,
> but in Mode 1 up to 4666CL17-17 in stable was possible.


If kit is SR. DR needs 2T.


----------



## TheSteez

PhoenixMDA said:


> Question of the Kit, some kann do Mode 2 also in higher Frequency, then also like 4200+ 1T possible.
> My Kit can do it easy up to 4400 out of the box and 4533 is possible but not good^^, without Mode 2 is much easier to go higher,
> so i have don´t spend time in that.
> If your Kit can´t do it out of the box in higher frequency forget itAll other Kit´s i had wasn´t able to do this in higher frequency like 4200,
> but in Mode 1 up to 4666CL17-17 in stable was possible.


What is the difference between mode 1 and mode 2? Is there a general performane difference or latency difference? Is mode 2 used for something specific? For what it is worth, I've been using mode 1 so far with turn around timing enabled and round trip latency enabled. I'm liking this kit so far. I'm really happy to be on dual rank/32gb again. Earlier this week I tried to play star citizen on my 2x8gb kit as they were doing a free trial, it turns out the game wants to use a full 16gb of ram. the game kept stuttering and crashing because of the overflow to the pagefile, not enough ram. Thankfully I got an early christmas present this year in the form of the 2x16gb gskill c17-4400 kit so i'll at least be able to try the game out. Has anyone here tried star citizen yet? My kit returns blank residuals in LinX at c15-4400, i really didn't expect it to do c15-4400 given that there is a c14-4000 super low latency kit out. I still have a lot to learn in the form of slopes/odts. I'm exhausted for the night, i'm gonna read up on slopes/odts more tomorrow. Thank you for the help/tips.

Btw, should I post the timings here that i'm working with? I do have a few questions about them, I had to leave a couple tertiaries loose. I thin sliced most of my tertiaries out of impatience, i'm sure they could be a bit better. I'm gonna goto bed now, been at it for hours. cya tomorrow.


----------



## 7empe

TheSteez said:


> What is the difference between mode 1 and mode 2? Is there a general performane difference or latency difference? Is mode 2 used for something specific? For what it is worth, I've been using mode 1 so far with turn around timing enabled and round trip latency enabled. I'm liking this kit so far. I'm really happy to be on dual rank/32gb again. Earlier this week I tried to play star citizen on my 2x8gb kit as they were doing a free trial, it turns out the game wants to use a full 16gb of ram. the game kept stuttering and crashing because of the overflow to the pagefile, not enough ram. Thankfully I got an early christmas present this year in the form of the 2x16gb gskill c17-4400 kit so i'll at least be able to try the game out. Has anyone here tried star citizen yet? My kit returns blank residuals in LinX at c15-4400, i really didn't expect it to do c15-4400 given that there is a c14-4000 super low latency kit out. I still have a lot to learn in the form of slopes/odts. I'm exhausted for the night, i'm gonna read up on slopes/odts more tomorrow. Thank you for the help/tips.
> 
> Btw, should I post the timings here that i'm working with? I do have a few questions about them, I had to leave a couple tertiaries loose. I thin sliced most of my tertiaries out of impatience, i'm sure they could be a bit better. I'm gonna goto bed now, been at it for hours. cya tomorrow.


Mode 2 is better for overclocking - more strict in doing POST checks than Mode 1. Takes into account slopes and is more strict in setting RTLs/IOLs. Therefore sometime it is easier to train RTLs/IOLs on Mode 1 before locking them down and switching to Mode 2. Mode 1 is easier to POST with less chance that OC will be stable.

Some CL values are much harder for board/IMC to run. For example I can do 4100 MHz CL 14, but no way I can run CL 15 above 3800 MHz. My kit in signature. Did you try 4500C16?


----------



## TheSteez

7empe said:


> Mode 2 is better for overclocking - more strict in doing POST checks than Mode 1. Takes into account slopes and is more strict in setting RTLs/IOLs. Therefore sometime it is easier to train RTLs/IOLs on Mode 1 before locking them down and switching to Mode 2. Mode 1 is easier to POST with less chance that OC will be stable.
> 
> Some CL values are much harder for board/IMC to run. For example I can do 4100 MHz CL 14, but no way I can run CL 15 above 3800 MHz. My kit in signature. Did you try 4500C16?


Interesting. Are voltage requirements different between mode 1 and 2? On the new 2x61gb kit I haven't tried anything other than 4400mhz, Pretty much spent all of last night with 4400.


----------



## 7empe

TheSteez said:


> Interesting. Are voltage requirements different between mode 1 and 2? On the new 2x61gb kit I haven't tried anything other than 4400mhz, Pretty much spent all of last night with 4400.


Modes have nothing to do with voltages.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

7empe said:


> If kit is SR. DR needs 2T.


The highest boot i have reached with 2x16GB 1T was 4266 but unstable(Bios1003), but look some pages back, one people has done 4300 1T with 2x16GB.
With SR is 4600 1T possible.With Mode 2 i can do max. 4533mhz, but there are the RTL not good trained 4400 is a "safe" boot.
Mode1 i can do easy 4700Mhz 

@TheSteez
Mode 2 is harder in training / RTL with the most HW @2x16GB like unpossible in high frequency, better to use with SR.
A good choice is [email protected] with air coiling arround 1,5-1,59V Bios perhaps necessary to set Vref 0,5-0,53.
The best Choice for Performance/Voltage is CL17 but only few Kit´s are possible to do that GSat stable in High frequency.

P.S.
For 4500+ you need also a good imc for stable


----------



## japau

storm-chaser said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> I have DDR4 4133 Patriot B die CL 19 kit.... Can someone help me get the secondaries dialed in, I've been told I should be seeing under 40ns latency at CL 17, but right now, clocked at 4200 CL 17, I am getting about 44.6ns in aida64. If I go to* 17-16-16-34 CR2 latency = 43.2 ns*
> 
> View attachment 2535371
> 
> 
> *Remaining specs:*
> View attachment 2535370
> 
> 
> 
> The MEG z390 ace board I have, has a memory try it feature so that is what I've been using at 4200MHz. I can confirm the memory should be stable at this speed and even at slightly lower timings. Right now I'm at about 1.4volts.


Hi Storm,

On B-Die, when the board trains the RTL's correctly (Voltages dialed and sufficient), you can pump just about everything to the end without it being too picky. TREFI and tRFC having huge effects on latency.

Here's what i've been running since dialed in. Every year i take a look what new generations has to offer and decide to wait another year. 14nm still wonderful piece of silicon.

DDR4 4200c16


----------



## storm-chaser

japau said:


> Hi Storm,
> 
> On B-Die, when the board trains the RTL's correctly (Voltages dialed and sufficient), you can pump just about everything to the end without it being too picky. TREFI and tRFC having huge effects on latency.
> 
> Here's what i've been running since dialed in. Every year i take a look what new generations has to offer and decide to wait another year. 14nm still wonderful piece of silicon.
> 
> DDR4 4200c16
> View attachment 2535839


Thanks for the tips. Ill keep you updated... but one thing, how in the world are you getting a 1T command rate, I thought that was impossible due to how the memory controller is set up on 8th and 9th gen chips?


----------



## Ichirou

storm-chaser said:


> Thanks for the tips. Ill keep you updated... but one thing, how in the world are you getting a 1T command rate, I thought that was impossible due to how the memory controller is set up on 8th and 9th gen chips?
> 
> View attachment 2535841


Depends entirely on the kit. I've seen many Z370/Z390ers getting CR1 just fine.


----------



## japau

storm-chaser said:


> Thanks for the tips. Ill keep you updated... but one thing, how in the world are you getting a 1T command rate, I thought that was impossible due to how the memory controller is set up on 8th and 9th gen chips?


It is something that just booted when the IMC, RAM and voltages are in order. Did not active try to pursue it with any tricks.

Its worth starting from <4000Mhz if need be to find the IMC, RAM and voltages in sync (RTL training). Afterwards when raising Mhz and 'focus' is lost try to raise voltages to find new sweet spot.

1T is not that big of a deal. Actual benchmark results comparable to +100Mhz (2T). It just runs lower voltages and feels a lot snappier.


----------



## storm-chaser

japau said:


> 1T is not that big of a deal. Actual benchmark results comparable to +100Mhz (2T). It just runs lower voltages and feels a lot snappier.


Yeah it's definitely that latency I'm after. It's clear I'm going to have to spend a few more hours fine tuning this system because it crashes as soon as I boot to windows when I have 1T command rate going. I have always favored latency over bandwidth, no exception here either.


----------



## storm-chaser

This is where I am at right now, but I will make one more run with the NB at 4900Mhz to see the difference, because I run at that setting quite a bit as well. I'm happy with this for now... two out of three catigories are now above 60GB/s


----------



## Larkonian

storm-chaser said:


> Yeah it's definitely that latency I'm after. It's clear I'm going to have to spend a few more hours fine tuning this system because it crashes as soon as I boot to windows when I have 1T command rate going. I have always favored latency over bandwidth, no exception here either.


japau is using an Apex board, that is a 2 dimm board with really good BIOS support for memory OC. On 4 dimm Z370/Z390 boards I have never been able to use CR1 at 4000 or above.

EDIT: Show us your current settings


----------



## storm-chaser

Larkonian said:


> japau is using an Apex board, that is a 2 dimm board with really good BIOS support for memory OC. On 4 dimm Z370/Z390 boards I have never been able to use CR1 at 4000 or above.
> 
> EDIT: Show us your current settings


I run NB at either 4500 or 4900 @ 5.2 or 5.3GHz on the CPU side.

The CPU generates substantially more heat with the 4900 setting, so generally speaking I use that setting with chilled water for benching.

EDIT: Below is the 4500 setting. I will reboot right now and show you the difference in latency once I switch to 4900.

4500










4900


----------



## Larkonian

storm-chaser said:


> I run NB at either 4500 or 4900 @ 5.2 or 5.3GHz on the CPU side.
> 
> The CPU generates substantially more heat with the 4900 setting, so generally speaking I use that setting with chilled water for benching.
> 
> EDIT: Below is the 4500 setting. I will reboot right now and show you the difference in latency once I switch to 4900.


Seems you can run tRCD at 15 at 4200. If that is indeed stable you have some really good B-Die. tRCD is the hardest timing to lower since it doesn't scale very well with voltage.

Your tRAS is very low, that can actually hurt performance (possibly because the motherboard does some changes behind the scenes). tRAS is one of the last settings I mess with.

New timings for you to try:

Primaries: 15-15-15-35
tRFC from 370 to 330
tREFI to 24000
tCWL from 18 to 14 (should always be able to be at or lower than tCL, and odd numbers might not work so set it to 14 instead of 15).
Reduce tWRPRE by 4

That is it for now


----------



## storm-chaser

Larkonian said:


> Seems you can run tRCD at 15 at 4200. If that is indeed stable you have some really good B-Die. tRCD is the hardest timing to lower since it doesn't scale very well with voltage.
> 
> Your tRAS is very low, that can actually hurt performance (possibly because the motherboard does some changes behind the scenes). tRAS is one of the last settings I mess with.
> 
> New timings for you to try:
> 
> Primaries: 15-15-15-35
> tRFC from 370 to 330
> tREFI to 24000
> tCWL from 18 to 14 (should always be able to be at or lower than tCL, and odd numbers might not work so set it to 14 instead of 15).
> Reduce tWRPRE by 4
> 
> That is it for now


So everything worked with the exception of CL15! Definitely in much better shape now. I ran a quick memory torture test and a couple benchmarks and it seems to be holding, but only time can say for sure. I'm very happy to be under 40ns with this rig now. So this is what it looks like now, and I think I will keep it this way going forward. Anything else I should change while I am here? Also - I am running this memory at 1.470 volts which seems to be totally fine. I tried CL15 and when it didn't post I tried CL15 with 1.5v and still nothing. fyi.


----------



## Larkonian

storm-chaser said:


> So everything worked with the exception of CL15! Definitely in much better shape now. I ran a quick memory torture test and a couple benchmarks and it seems to be holding, but only time can say for sure. I'm very happy to be under 40ns with this rig now. So this is what it looks like now, and I think I will keep it this way going forward. Anything else I should change while I am here? Also - I am running this memory at 1.470 volts which seems to be totally fine. I tried CL15 and when it didn't post I tried CL15 with 1.5v and still nothing. fyi.


Weird, tCL can normally always run faster or equal to tRCD. Try to set tCL to 14, it might have some weird quirk with 15.

BTW, was is your VCCSA voltage like?

Did you lower tWRPRE? It should drop tWR which should be able to run much lower. tWR should be on auto ofc.

Alternatively try setting tWR directly, 12 should be stable.

Other timings I would tighten:
tRRD_s and tRRD_l from 9 to 6
tFAW from 25 to 24
tWRRD_sg from 32 to 30


----------



## Ichirou

storm-chaser said:


> So everything worked with the exception of CL15! Definitely in much better shape now. I ran a quick memory torture test and a couple benchmarks and it seems to be holding, but only time can say for sure. I'm very happy to be under 40ns with this rig now. So this is what it looks like now, and I think I will keep it this way going forward. Anything else I should change while I am here? Also - I am running this memory at 1.470 volts which seems to be totally fine. I tried CL15 and when it didn't post I tried CL15 with 1.5v and still nothing. fyi.
> 
> View attachment 2535884


You will need to go above 1.50V VDIMM to boot at CL15 then. Presuming you have Samsung B-die, CAS latency scales with voltage (to a certain reasonable point).
G.Skill sells Samsung B-die kits up to 1.55V, so that's where you should stop for 24/7.


----------



## mouacyk

@storm-chaser See if you can increase tREFI or even max it, which will help with latency. Also try tFAW = 16. Never had a RAM OC that couldn't do that, even 4x8GB kits. Should bump BW slightly.


----------



## storm-chaser

Larkonian said:


> Seems you can run tRCD at 15 at 4200. If that is indeed stable you have some really good B-Die. tRCD is the hardest timing to lower since it doesn't scale very well with voltage.


Good to hear that! I have established tRCD @ 15 is stable. The ram is Patriot Viper 4133 C19 (2 x8GB), and it will run up to 4500 but that setting will require some effort and energy to get stable. And besides, like I said earlier, I am here for the latency not the bandwidth. I have 8 channel DDR3 1866 for that 



mouacyk said:


> @storm-chaser See if you can increase tREFI or even max it, which will help with latency. Also try tFAW = 16. Never had a RAM OC that couldn't do that, even 4x8GB kits. Should bump BW slightly.


Maxxed out at 65000 and tFAW is running 16 now, yes I did notice a bump in bandwidth as well as a reduction in latency. thank you.

*Current settings & results:*











Ichirou said:


> You will need to go above 1.50V VDIMM to boot at CL15 then. Presuming you have Samsung B-die, CAS latency scales with voltage (to a certain reasonable point).
> G.Skill sells Samsung B-die kits up to 1.55V, so that's where you should stop for 24/7.


Weird, I'm still not able to boot at CL15, I will try CL14 on the next reboot. 1.55 volts did not do it for me, but perhaps it's just the limit of this B-die kit at this speed?



Larkonian said:


> Weird, tCL can normally always run faster or equal to tRCD. Try to set tCL to 14, it might have some weird quirk with 15.


Odd, so I am including a picture of most of the memory settings here, listed below. Please dont take the values in the middle as legit, because it was after a hard reset so those are defaults. but if you see anything I need to modify, by all means bring it up and Ill give you exact specs on current #s.




Larkonian said:


> Did you lower tWRPRE? It should drop tWR which should be able to run much lower. tWR should be on auto ofc.
> 
> Alternatively try setting tWR directly, 12 should be stable.
> 
> Other timings I would tighten:
> tRRD_s and tRRD_l from 9 to 6
> tFAW from 25 to 24
> tWRRD_sg from 32 to 30


Yeah so as I said earlier in this post, I tried CL15 again at much higher voltage and still nothing. I also rebooted two or three times. Sometimes this system will fail to post, and just needs another reboot. But no take this time. I did lower tWRPRE, yes. But now we have a slight conflict. Someone above recommended 16 for TFAW. You are recommending 24, which do you think I should go with? Also I cannot find some of these specific settings so I have attached some screenshots of my BIOS memory settings. There are more settings as well, but this is the majority of them...



Larkonian said:


> BTW, was is your VCCSA voltage like?


I dont see this exact setting, but similar ones. Please let me know if you see it on this list (this is the latest bios release for this board, about a month old for win 11 support):
Values in middle cant be trusted, values on far right, however, can be trusted. (sorry about that) I didnt realize until i uploaded them that it was after a hard reset to they were stuck on defaults. But this goes for the three of you, I have been updating the bios exactly as you have suggested, I just wanted to see what else I can do here.


----------



## storm-chaser

Those BIOS settings are confusing. I will get a USB drive and be back with better data so I can take screenshots


----------



## storm-chaser

Well guys we got it! Im running C15 @ 4200!!
For some reason, when I changed the NB from 4900 to 4500 it posted on the reboot at CR 15. Nothing else changed, so weird I know. But the NB wont post over 4900 (unless I overclock the FSB, then I can get to 5000) with just multiplier OCing. So there may be some stability issues at the high end that were causing C15 to not work?

What do you guys think? On point now? I can feel it's definitely tell it's more snappy than before. Thanks for the help. If want to review my bios screenshots and see anything out of place let me know. Just ask me to confirm the accuracy first.































You guys are awesome.


----------



## Ichirou

storm-chaser said:


> Well guys we got it! Im running C15 @ 4200!!
> For some reason, when I changed the NB from 4900 to 4500 it posted on the reboot at CR 15. Nothing else changed, so weird I know. But the NB wont post over 4900 (unless I overclock the FSB, then I can get to 5000) with just multiplier OCing. So there may be some stability issues at the high end that were causing C15 to not work?
> 
> What do you guys think? On point now? I can feel it's definitely tell it's more snappy than before. Thanks for the help. If want to review my bios screenshots and see anything out of place let me know. Just ask me to confirm the accuracy first.
> 
> View attachment 2535963
> 
> View attachment 2535964
> 
> View attachment 2535965
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are awesome.


Sounds like it was just bad training. Glad to hear you got it working.


----------



## storm-chaser

Ichirou said:


> Sounds like it was just bad training. Glad to hear you got it working.


Really happy to get the memory dialed in. 
Still not as snappy as my Phenom II, which hit 35.5ns latency. lol

Going to try CL14 to see if I can beat that number.


----------



## Larkonian

storm-chaser said:


> Well guys we got it! Im running C15 @ 4200!!


Looking good

A few things:

It looks like you are running VCCSA and VCCIO on auto. They are called CPU SA and CPU IO in your BIOS.

IO helps ring clock (north bridge clock). I would set that at 1.25-1.30v and see if that helps to stabilize 4800-4900 Mhz.

SA powers the memory controller and will need to be increased for higher frequencies. Here are some rough values:

4000 1.15 - 1.20
4200 1.20 - 1.25
4400 1.25 - 1.35

Higher values can be needed for dual-rank setups.

As for timings:

tFAW 16 probably works, I was just being conservative.

Also set tWRPRE to 30, tWR on auto and check in windows if it that drops it to 12.

In latency timing configuration set Round Trip Latency Optimize to Enabled. This might help lower the RTLs, very important for latency.


----------



## storm-chaser

Yes they are both on auto, but when you use override mode, MSI will scale those voltages based on what you set for vcore, but I still put in the values you suggested and everything seems very stable.
I also followed your other instructions and YES latency has dropped again! This result exceeded my expectations. In case I lose the bios config I can always come back and reference this thread.










EDIT:


----------



## storm-chaser

Larkonian said:


> IO helps ring clock (north bridge clock). I would set that at 1.25-1.30v and see if that helps to stabilize 4800-4900 Mhz.


I applied 1.37 volts and was able to boot with the NB at 5000MHz and pass a short stress test and benchmark. 
So close to 35! Thanks for this tip.


----------



## japau

storm-chaser said:


> Yes they are both on auto, but when you use override mode, MSI will scale those voltages based on what you set for vcore, but I still put in the values you suggested and everything seems very stable.
> I also followed your other instructions and YES latency has dropped again! This result exceeded my expectations. In case I lose the bios config I can always come back and reference this thread.
> 
> View attachment 2535978
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> View attachment 2535981





storm-chaser said:


> I applied 1.37 volts and was able to boot with the NB at 5000MHz and pass a short stress test and benchmark.
> So close to 35! Thanks for this tip.
> 
> View attachment 2535986


That's good man! the RTL's are in the right ball bark now. Way to go!


----------



## 7empe

Hey. Short question.

Prime95 112k with AVX and without AVX test. Does AVX require higher VCCSA in this test? I noticed that I can pass test without AVX with much less VCCSA. The same amount of VCCSA during AVX test make PC to boot without BSOD that may indicate IMC crash. Stability comes back with +20 mV or +30 mV applied to VCCSA. But can this really be the case? Anyone?


----------



## hl55

7empe said:


> Hey. Short question.
> 
> Prime95 112k with AVX and without AVX test. Does AVX require higher VCCSA in this test? I noticed that I can pass test without AVX with much less VCCSA. The same amount of VCCSA during AVX test make PC to boot without BSOD that may indicate IMC crash. Stability comes back with +20 mV or +30 mV applied to VCCSA. But can this really be the case? Anyone?


I ran into something similar with OCCT after being stable for 3 cycles of Testmem5 Anta Extreme and having dialed in all the lowest required voltages, but running OCCT (CPU stress, AVX, Large data set, Extreme mode) afterwards, I would either get tons of errors a couple minutes in or my PC would completely freeze. Raising VCCSA by .010 to .030 fixed it and I was able to finish 1 hour without errors or freezing.


----------



## neizonnnn

Hey everyone, got dual ranks running stable on 4600 17 1T. Anyone tried it before? Any way bypassing the boot troubles on higher frequencies?


----------



## YaqY

neizonnnn said:


> Hey everyone, got dual ranks running stable on 4600 17 1T. Anyone tried it before? Any way bypassing the boot troubles on higher frequencies?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2536871


Most people can boot low 4000s at most on XII Apex so if thats real its an achievement, although I kind of doubt it because TRDRD_SG 7...


----------



## T.S.O.M.

I'd like to know if it is by this time finally possible to raise tREFI *beyond 65535* - for example, 66560 when running @ DDR4-4266 (7.8 x 2133.333 x 4)? If not, why?

T.S.O.M.


----------



## The Pook

storm-chaser said:


> I applied 1.37 volts and was able to boot with the NB at 5000MHz and pass a short stress test and benchmark.
> So close to 35! Thanks for this tip.
> 
> View attachment 2535986


can tWRRD_sg and tWWRD_dg not go lower? try 27/23, should get your copy in line with the read/write.


----------



## storm-chaser

The Pook said:


> can tWRRD_sg and tWWRD_dg not go lower? try 27/23, should get your copy in line with the read/write.


Wrote those two things down and will give it a whirl in a few minutes and post my results. 

Also thinking about trying for 4400MHz C15 (or just something a bit higher than 4200). Not sure if I can pull it off stable though.


----------



## Exilon

Any advice for Micron 16Gbit B-die in regards to voltages? Seems like everyone only talks about the other B-die when trying to Google for it.


----------



## The Pook

Exilon said:


> Seems like everyone only talks about the other B-die when trying to Google for it.


put it in quotes. search for



> "Micron B-Die" voltage


 instead of 



> Micron B-Die voltage


first result says that it doesn't scale much past 1.4v but a few others say it does up to 1.45v, just test it yourself. 

I've got Micron B-Die in my HTPC but it's SODIMM and I can't run past 1.35v, so no idea off hand.


----------



## Ichirou

For whatever it's worth. Seems like 2x8GB and loose timings at CL18+ should just boot with IMC voltages on Auto. 2x16GB might even work if loose.
Leaning towards them all being G2 instead of G1, though. And probably 2T.


----------



## truehighroller1

Alright,

I haven't been on here in a very long time. I'm needing some help dialing my memory settings in from the great memory lords on here please.

This is what I got so far, and I know that my Windows 11 doesn't help with latency but that's okay I just want to get things tighter than what I have them now and it's been so long I've forgotten all of the tricks. Here are my settings right now. Any help would be greatly greatly appreciated thank you.



















Alright,

I made some changes and now I'm sitting at this, gear 1.











Should I change anything obvious that anyone can see here?


----------



## T.S.O.M.

T.S.O.M. said:


> I'd like to know if it is by this time finally possible to raise tREFI *beyond 65535* - for example, 66560 when running @ DDR4-4266 (7.8 x 2133.333 x 4)? If not, why?
> 
> T.S.O.M.


Apparently, this question got looked over, so I bump it...

T.S.O.M.


----------



## Ichirou

T.S.O.M. said:


> Apparently, this question got looked over, so I bump it...
> 
> T.S.O.M.


Pretty sure it has to do with this:





65,536 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Your next best alternative is tightening tRFC more.


----------



## T.S.O.M.

truehighroller1 said:


> View attachment 2537130
> View attachment 2537131
> 
> 
> Alright,
> 
> I made some changes and now I'm sitting at this, gear 1.
> 
> View attachment 2537152
> 
> 
> 
> Should I change anything obvious that anyone can see here?


Does Alder Lake still have gearing mode (ratio limitations) like Rocket Lake!? Can't you get DDR4-4000 (like in your first picture, timings look decent) to work in G1 mode?

Alternatively, try a lower frequency but with tighter timings (my recommendation: DDR4-3866 @ CL14) in order to achieve the same or maybe even better performance like 4000, but still be able to run in G1 mode  

T.S.O.M.


----------



## T.S.O.M.

Ichirou said:


> Pretty sure it has to do with this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 65,536 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your next best alternative is tightening tRFC more.


In the Wikipedia article, I couldn't find any reference in regards to tREFI...

But I assume from your reply that, indeed, this limit has still not increased after many years - how do you (the other members here at OC.net) handle tREFI values for DDR4-4266 or higher, then!?

I cannot (don't want to) set it higher than 49920 at that frequency because of the 7.8x formula...

T.S.O.M.


----------



## truehighroller1

T.S.O.M. said:


> Does Alder Lake still have gearing mode (ratio limitations) like Rocket Lake!? Can't you get DDR4-4000 (like in your first picture, timings look decent) to work in G1 mode?
> 
> Alternatively, try a lower frequency but with tighter timings (my recommendation: DDR4-3866 @ CL14) in order to achieve the same or maybe even better performance like 4000, but still be able to run in G1 mode
> 
> T.S.O.M.



Can't boot 4000 Gear 1... Highest is 3900. I just feel like I'm not getting my settings set right because my rtl aren't in sync which is usually a sign it's not perfect. I'm booted at 3600 14-14-14-32 right now testing it then I'll bump it up to 3866.

3866 will do 15-15-15-32 not 14s.. rtls are off by 1 though I noticed. Last stick is off by 2 compared to the first 3 sticks.


----------



## T.S.O.M.

truehighroller1 said:


> I'm booted at 3600 14-14-14-32 right now testing it then I'll bump it up to 3866.


Yeah, do that - 3866 CL14 (14-14-14-28) G1 and CR1 (the latter, if achievable) should be your sweetspot. Try to get there. It might also help to increase tRAS from 28 to 42, as it might fix instability when you try to get there 

T.S.O.M.


----------



## Ichirou

T.S.O.M. said:


> In the Wikipedia article, I couldn't find any reference in regards to tREFI...
> 
> But I assume from your reply that, indeed, this limit has still not increased after many years - how do you (the other members here at OC.net) handle tREFI values for DDR4-4266 or higher, then!?
> 
> I cannot (don't want to) set it higher than 49920 at that frequency because of the 7.8x formula...
> 
> T.S.O.M.


The point of the article was the number 65536, not tREFI specifically.

JEDEC formula is only a guideline; tREFI in general can be ramped up to the max so long as you can cool it. It's quite temperature-sensitive.


----------



## Togaidragon

This thread is amazing! from a new overclocker thank all you guys for posting your knowledge!
Im running a 11900k with asus z590 gaming-A wifi with 4x8g tridentz 4400c16 at xmpII. I get 60000 read speed with 51 latency on gear 2. Definitely looking to push it further as long as it wont do damage lol. I have vcore @ 1.45, SA at 1.4 and VCCIO mem at 1.5 DRAM at 1.5
I feel like other than my vcore these are extremely high, but temps are fine and I'm just trying to keep it stable. This build has a really hard time doing XMPII. Also I noticed my NB clock is much lower than everyone else









In fact I can't seem to get XMPII even stable. Now I am running 1.45 SA and still get "hardware failure detected" after 5 minutes in AIDA64 stress test(to be precise 2x tests failed both around the 4 minute mark)


----------



## T.S.O.M.

Ichirou said:


> The point of the article was the number 65536, not tREFI specifically.
> 
> JEDEC formula is only a guideline; *tREFI in general can be ramped up to the max so long as you can cool it.* It's quite temperature-sensitive.


So there have already been folks over here, who could indeed set their tREFI to, say, 70000 or 80000 for example? (beyond 65536)

T.S.O.M.


----------



## mouacyk

T.S.O.M. said:


> So there have already been folks over here, who could indeed set their tREFI to, say, 70000 or 80000 for example? (beyond 65536)
> 
> T.S.O.M.


Never seen it above 65,535 as it's capped by the motherboard as a 16-bit number. Mine caps at 65,000 flat even.


----------



## T.S.O.M.

mouacyk said:


> Never seen it above 65,535 as it's capped by the motherboard as a 16-bit number. Mine caps at 65,000 flat even.


Since how many years does this limitation exist?

T.SO.M.


----------



## The Pook




----------



## T.S.O.M.

Has anyone, out of curiosity, tried to deliberately set the value still over 65536? What happened then? Was it rejected/reset by the motherboard after clicking "apply" or rebooting to BIOS?

T.S.O.M.


----------



## The Pook

if you put in >65536 it changes to 65536. 

it's a 16-bit value, it can't go >65536.


----------



## Togaidragon

Now at 1.6 SA and tried both CR1 and CR2, just gets the same hardware error after a few minutes in aida64 stress test. Anything over 1.5 vccio mem or 1.6 SA and the numbers turn red which is scary so I havent tried them lol. Also I noticed if I turn BCLK to 100 a lot of frequencies turn gray, including the 4400 which is supposed to be XMPII(XMPII auto changed BCLK to 103.2)


----------



## japau

T.S.O.M. said:


> Has anyone, out of curiosity, tried to deliberately set the value still over 65536? What happened then? Was it rejected/reset by the motherboard after clicking "apply" or rebooting to BIOS?
> 
> T.S.O.M.


The older generations cannot set it higher than 65535 because the value is hold in UINT16 register.

New generations (alder lake) seem to have 262k max? I would still assume it has no effect on the higher end scale or its calculated differently. 

If my memory serves correctly it has to do with charging / refreshing the values in memory cells and too high value might cause the cells to not be readable or loose data.


----------



## T.S.O.M.

The Pook said:


> if you put in >65536 it changes to 65536.
> 
> it's a 16-bit value, it can't go >65536.


I know, it's a 16Bit number - I was just asking out of curiosity  

Anyway, Thanks for clarifying - case closed! 

T.S.O.M.


----------



## Ichirou

Togaidragon said:


> This thread is amazing! from a new overclocker thank all you guys for posting your knowledge!
> Im running a 11900k with asus z590 gaming-A wifi with 4x8g tridentz 4400c16 at xmpII. I get 60000 read speed with 51 latency on gear 2. Definitely looking to push it further as long as it wont do damage lol. I have vcore @ 1.45, SA at 1.4 and VCCIO mem at 1.5 DRAM at 1.5
> I feel like other than my vcore these are extremely high, but temps are fine and I'm just trying to keep it stable. This build has a really hard time doing XMPII. Also I noticed my NB clock is much lower than everyone else
> View attachment 2537288
> 
> 
> In fact I can't seem to get XMPII even stable. Now I am running 1.45 SA and still get "hardware failure detected" after 5 minutes in AIDA64 stress test(to be precise 2x tests failed both around the 4 minute mark)


IMHO, I'm leaning towards the VCCIO being too high. Also, check for corruption with SFC in case you've already caused it to the OS without being aware.
Instead of doing AIDA64 stress tests, make sure you run TM5 with anta777 Extreme1 or something if you haven't already.


----------



## Togaidragon

Ichirou said:


> IMHO, I'm leaning towards the VCCIO being too high. Also, check for corruption with SFC in case you've already caused it to the OS without being aware.
> Instead of doing AIDA64 stress tests, make sure you run TM5 with anta777 Extreme1 or something if you haven't already.


Thanks!
I have downloaded TM5 and loaded the anta extreme profile and am running it with last known stable config @ 4266c16 1.5 DRAM 1.5 SA, 1.4 Mem VCCIO. Just got 3 errors so I closed it and am going to change some voltages and see if I can get it stable
I forgot I had two secondary timings still modified so I put those back to default and it seems to be stable @ 1.6 SA and 1.4 mem vccio. I'm going to lower voltages now as far as I can

Okay it was still not stable. I ended up going down to 4000mhz, actually put all my voltages back to auto(except vcore) which ended up with 1.47 mem oc, 1.21 SA and it was stable for 1hr30min so I ended the test and moved up to 4266 still keeping voltages on auto. It's at 10 min no errors so I will let it run for another hour or so then move up again


----------



## Togaidragon

At around the 1hr mark 4266 threw up 1 error so I ended the test. I ended up putting bclk back to xmp which is 103.2 and put frequency down at 4133. The reason I did this was because 4400 is only white when bclk is 103.2. When I have it at 100 it turns gray. I can still select it but I'm assuming bios doesn't want me to and that's why its gray? Also when I do this my "ai optimized" clocks go way down. From 5.3ghz to 5.0. So I guess I will have to manually tune that at some point.

Anyway running the test now 4133 1.47 mem vccio 1.21 SA 103.2 bclk hopefully it's stable so I can move on.

Stable for 1 and half hours, moving up to 4400 which is the next available white option. Keeping voltages the same for now

Error after 15 min moving SA from 1.23 to 1.25
error after 5 minutes lol thats it for me tonight


----------



## mouacyk

Does BCLK overclock work without data corruption for anyone? It takes several minutes to boot to 3900-C15 stable with the 39.00 strap. However, using 38.66 strap and 100.9MHz BCLK boots immediately and is stable, but it corrupted my Windows 10 install once already. I thought on SkyLake onward, BCLK doesn't affect PCIe and and PCH anymore.


----------



## T.S.O.M.

japau said:


> The older generations cannot set it higher than 65535 because the value is hold in UINT16 register.


The obvious question is then: how do YOU (you folks here on OC.net & elsewhere) set tREFI *at memory frequencies of 4266MHz or higher?* 4266 necessitates the equivalent or multiple of *16640* (7.8 x 2133.333). A multiple of 4 wouldn't fit in, because it would be 66560 (above the 65535 limit). So the maximum "allowed" value one can set for DDR4-4266 would be *49920 *- significantly below the maximum potential of ~ 65500!



japau said:


> New generations (alder lake) seem to have 262k max?


And what about Rocket Lake and Comet Lake?



japau said:


> If my memory serves correctly it has to do with charging / refreshing the values in memory cells and too high value might cause the cells to not be readable or loose data.


tREFI is said to be very temperature-sensitive - at which temperatures it becomes error-prone respectively a stability issue? *40°C, 45°C, 50°C or 55°C or even higher?*

T.S.O.M.


----------



## fray_bentos

mouacyk said:


> Does BCLK overclock work without data corruption for anyone? It takes several minutes to boot to 3900-C15 stable with the 39.00 strap. However, using 38.66 strap and 100.9MHz BCLK boots immediately and is stable, but it corrupted my Windows 10 install once already. I thought on SkyLake onward, BCLK doesn't affect PCIe and and PCH anymore.


That's likely corruption due to memory corruption, not PCIe corruption. You can corrupt windows with a bad RAM OC whilst leaving BLCK at 100.00 MHz...


----------



## Ichirou

T.S.O.M. said:


> The obvious question is then: how do YOU (you folks here on OC.net & elsewhere) set tREFI *at memory frequencies of 4266MHz or higher?* 4266 necessitates the equivalent or multiple of *16640* (7.8 x 2133.333). A multiple of 4 wouldn't fit in, because it would be 66560 (above the 65535 limit). So the maximum "allowed" value one can set for DDR4-4266 would be *49920 *- significantly below the maximum potential of ~ 65500!
> 
> tREFI is said to be very temperature-sensitive - at which temperatures it becomes error-prone respectively a stability issue? *40°C, 45°C, 50°C or 55°C or even higher?*
> 
> T.S.O.M.


tREFI doesn't need to meet JEDEC spec. That's just a guideline.

I'd say that tREFI's one of the timings you should ramp up last, especially if you plan on tightening the secondaries/tertiaries. Because it's like the cherry on the cake.

Usually, if a kit isn't super tight, you can probably just max it out and still have headroom to further tighten other temperature-sensitive stuff (like tRFC), but in the case of a kit like mine, if I go from tRCD/tRP of 20 to 19, I cannot max tREFI out as it'll throw temperature errors. It's set at 56,975 right now.

Performance wise, I have the exact same real world results on tRFC 700, tREFI 56,975, tRCD 19 compared to tRFC 620, tREFI max, tRCD 20. But that's only because I've maxed out the temperature on the DIMMs. If I didn't max it out (even with dedicated fans), I could probably tighten tRFC and max out tREFI for even higher RWC speeds and latency.

But to directly answer your question, there is no specific temperature that a kit is safe up to. Every single kit is different. You just have to find what yours can tolerate.


----------



## 7empe

If going up with ddr multiplier is hard to stabilize, then bclk oc can be the solution.
2x16GB DR on M12E board.
BCLK=100.75 MHz, CORE=5238 MHz, AVX -1, RING=4934 MHz, RAM=4533 C16.
10900KF SP63.


----------



## mouacyk

fray_bentos said:


> That's likely corruption due to memory corruption, not PCIe corruption. You can corrupt windows with a bad RAM OC whilst leaving BLCK at 100.00 MHz...


Just re-ran google stress app test at 100.75x38.66 = 3895MHz-15-15-15-35-2T 1.45v (Maybe it was 101 BCLK that was giving me corruption issues. Have restore turned on now, will try it out later.):



Bash:


#@gentoo ~ $ tail stressapptest-100.75-bclk.log  -n 11
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: Found 0 hardware incidents
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: Completed: 159334176.00M in 3600.22s 44256.81MB/s, with 0 hardware incidents, 0 errors
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: Memory Copy: 159334176.00M at 44258.84MB/s
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: File Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: Net Copy: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: Data Check: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: Invert Data: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Stats: Disk: 0.00M at 0.00MB/s
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST)
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST) Status: PASS - please verify no corrected errors
2021/12/15-08:22:44(CST)


----------



## LQ2apos

I have switched to Asus B560-E for about a month. Its training algorithm options are quite a rabbit hole, is it really OptiMem? I'm happy with the board so far.

Latest BIOS version (1203) reduces bandwidth significantly and adds 1~2ms to latency. Hope Asus will address this soon.

Verified with OCCT - CPU AVX2 test - large-extreme-variable load - 1 hour - Starts from cycle 13


Spoiler: Shared options




VCCSA = Memory VCCIO = 1.15V
VDIMM = 1.35V
RttWr = 80
RttPark = 48
RttNom = 80
Round Trip Latency: Enabled
Turn Around Timing Training: Enabled
Turn-around Timings Guard-band: Enabled




*BIOS version 1017*


Spoiler: Timings



_Others:_ tXP = 4













Spoiler: AIDA64 benchmark















*BIOS version 1203*


Spoiler: Timings



_Others:_ tXP = 6













Spoiler: AIDA64 benchmark















I guess I will stick with version 1017 for now. I don't know if I will benefit from microcode update in 1203, it's for extra security I suppose? LOL
I'm finding a longer stability test for free. I'll try TM5 with new Absolut profile from anta777, and y-cruncher soon.


----------



## The Pook

... shouldn't the ability to run 1T vs 2T be down to the RAM and/or the CPU's IMC, not the motherboard?  

I have a Z390 Taichi in my server that I had to RMA. On a G5500 it wasn't able to run 1T on the pre-RMA board, but on the post-RMA board it's been able to run 1T on just about every kit I throw in it. 

Upgraded it to an 8700K and a 32x2 kit and it's been able to handle 1T on that too. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Ichirou

Minor discovery after having a bad system failure and spending hours trying to retrain my RTL/IOLs:

For ASUS motherboards, generally, when it is training, it will attempt to train (boot loop) around four times before it gives up and goes into safe mode.
When you initially press F10 and save your settings, if the PC completely powers off before it starts to train, it has likely failed (with the RTL/IOLs).
However, if the PC still remains on and simply boots up as if it were restarted, it will pass.

How is this useful? Well, I found that if you allow the motherboard to retrain beyond even once (so, after the first power off), it can mess around with some settings.
Hence, if you see this happen, deliberately power off the PC by holding it for a few seconds to force safe mode before it trains twice.

If lucky, nothing should be changed in the BIOS, and at this point, simply retry your tightened RTL/IOL settings. With some luck, it will properly train.
If some settings _did _change (this is easily noticeable by checking your voltages), reload a profile and retry. Rinse and repeat until it trains to your ideal RTL/IOLs.


----------



## fray_bentos

Ichirou said:


> Minor discovery after having a bad system failure and spending hours trying to retrain my RTL/IOLs:
> 
> For ASUS motherboards, generally, when it is training, it will attempt to train (boot loop) around four times before it gives up and goes into safe mode.
> When you initially press F10 and save your settings, if the PC completely powers off before it starts to train, it has likely failed (with the RTL/IOLs).
> However, if the PC still remains on and simply boots up as if it were restarted, it will pass.
> 
> How is this useful? Well, I found that if you allow the motherboard to retrain beyond even once (so, after the first power off), it can mess around with some settings.
> Hence, if you see this happen, deliberately power off the PC by holding it for a few seconds to force safe mode before it trains twice.
> 
> If lucky, nothing should be changed in the BIOS, and at this point, simply retry your tightened RTL/IOL settings. With some luck, it will properly train.
> If some settings _did _change (this is easily noticeable by checking your voltages), reload a profile and retry. Rinse and repeat until it trains to your ideal RTL/IOLs.


Isn't there a BIOS setting where you can set number of retries? If so couldn't you set that to 1? I recall there being such a feature on MSI boards.


----------



## Ichirou

fray_bentos said:


> Isn't there a BIOS setting where you can set number of retries? If so couldn't you set that to 1? I recall there being such a feature on MSI boards.


I... wouldn't know, actually. I never tried to look for something like that.
Regardless, it's just an observation I made and am sharing for people trying to tighten RTL/IOLs.

But I heard it's become obsolete for the Z690 series, so might not be useful info in the coming days.


----------



## The Pook

there's an option for it on the Hero XIII and there was an option on my Z170-E, should be on all Asus boards somewhere AFAIK. 

Don't remember where it's at specifically, but it's not _too_ hidden.


----------



## Needhelp666

What is better/faster, 3600 cl 14 16 16 36 or 3600 cl 15 15 15 35


----------



## Ichirou

Needhelp666 said:


> What is better/faster, 3600 cl 14 16 16 36 or 3600 cl 15 15 15 35


Probably not going to be really noticeable in real-world use if you don't plan to OC. Just get whatever is cheaper.
But if you do plan to OC, get the CL14 kit and push it, since it's most likely Samsung B-die.


----------



## Needhelp666

Ichirou said:


> Probably not going to be really noticeable in real-world use if you don't plan to OC. Just get whatever is cheaper.
> But if you do plan to OC, get the CL14 kit and push it, since it's most likely Samsung B-die.


Im overclocking my 3200 cl 14 kit, i need like 1,45v for cl 15 15 15 35 and 1.4v for cl 14 16 16 36 to be stable.


----------



## bscool

Needhelp666 said:


> Im overclocking my 3200 cl 14 kit, i need like 1,45v for cl 15 15 15 35 and 1.4v for cl 14 16 16 36 to be stable.


So why dont you test them? How can someone tell you what is faster. Find what ever applications you use and test them yourself.


----------



## bscool

@Needhelp666 You can use something like Aida64 Download AIDA64 Extreme 6.60.5900 (EXE) | AIDA64 but the real test is to use applications you actually use and compare. In actual use you will never be able to tell outside of benchmarks.

If you are not manually setting all of your subtimings it will be a guess. It might set them really loose or off. So 3200c14 could be faster than 3600c14 with loose subtiming timings.


----------



## The Pook

still kinda surprised 32x2 can do 1T 🙃 










3000 16-18-18 was stable with 1.5v but not anything >3000, and anything higher than 3400 16-20-20 at any voltage immediately got a wall of errors in GSAT.

gonna run GSAT a bit longer and run AIDA64 after I work on sub timings, all are on auto except I lowered tRFC/tRDWR/tWRRD a smidge.


----------



## fray_bentos

Ichirou said:


> Probably not going to be really noticeable in real-world use if you don't plan to OC. Just get whatever is cheaper.
> But if you do plan to OC, get the CL14 kit and push it, since it's most likely Samsung B-die.


With straight 15 15 15 that is also very likely B die too...
Edit: I now see the kit is already in hand. The answer is to test both settings.


----------



## Ichirou

fray_bentos said:


> With straight 15 15 15 that is also very likely B die too...
> Edit: I now see the kit is already in hand. The answer is to test both settings.


Flat 15 can be Hynix, as I've sold a Hynix kit with flat 15 before. 3,000 MHz.


----------



## zebra_hun

I'm happy with my daily settings, low voltages.
This is a G.Skill 3200 CL14 GTZR 2x16GB kit, overclocked to 4133CL17. Super fine min fps in games.
4H30Min long stress test without error.



















Dram: 1.43V
IO and SA: 1.20V


----------



## LQ2apos

LQ2apos said:


> I have switched to Asus B560-E for about a month. Its training algorithm options are quite a rabbit hole, is it really OptiMem? I'm happy with the board so far.
> 
> Latest BIOS version (1203) reduces bandwidth significantly and adds 1~2ms to latency. Hope Asus will address this soon.
> 
> Verified with OCCT - CPU AVX2 test - large-extreme-variable load - 1 hour - Starts from cycle 13
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Shared options
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCCSA = Memory VCCIO = 1.15V
> VDIMM = 1.35V
> RttWr = 80
> RttPark = 48
> RttNom = 80
> Round Trip Latency: Enabled
> Turn Around Timing Training: Enabled
> Turn-around Timings Guard-band: Enabled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BIOS version 1017*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Timings
> 
> 
> 
> _Others:_ tXP = 4
> View attachment 2537853
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: AIDA64 benchmark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537854


Those timings on BIOS version 1017 pass TM5 Absolut @ anta777 profile, but fail on y-cruncher AVX2 stress test. I had to change the following settings to pass 12 hours of that y-cruncher test. (Actually passed almost 14 hours.)


Spoiler: BIOS settings




VCCSA = Memory VCCIO = 1.20V
VDIMM = 1.38V
RttWr = 120
RttPark = 48
RttNom = 40
AVX2: Enabled
AVX512: Disabled (to trigger AVX2 test on y-cruncher)






Spoiler: y-cruncher config






JSON:


//  y-cruncher Configuration File
//  Version: 0.7.8 Build 9507
//
//  Load this from y-cruncher or run directly:
//      y-cruncher config filename.cfg
//
//  If you're copying Windows file paths into here, be sure to replace
//  all backslashes "\" with forward slashes "/". Backslash is an
//  escape character.
//

{
    Action : "StressTest"
    StressTest : {
        AllocateLocally : "true"
        LogicalCores : [0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15]
        TotalMemory : 18952094720
        SecondsPerTest : 200
        SecondsTotal : 0
        StopOnError : "true"
        Tests : [
            "N32"
            "N64"
            "HNT"
            "VST"
            "C17"
        ]
    }
}





I'm trying y-cruncher AVX512 stress test too. It's hard to pass the 2nd cycle of it (sometimes even 1st cycle). But is this stress test too unrealistic?

Another thing is DLLBwEn. I see it's been mentioned in this forum, but is it only available from Skylake through Comet Lake?


----------



## Ichirou

LQ2apos said:


> Another thing is DLLBwEn. I see it's been mentioned in this forum, but is it only available from Skylake through Comet Lake?


I tried fiddling around with DDLBwEn myself; got nowhere with it. If anything, made my PC even more unstable. RTT/ODTs are more meaningful.


----------



## LQ2apos

Ichirou said:


> I tried fiddling around with DDLBwEn myself; got nowhere with it. If anything, made my PC even more unstable. RTT/ODTs are more meaningful.


Are you using a Comet Lake CPU or a later one? I'm leaving DLLBwEn at auto, it's been a mystery to me.


----------



## Ichirou

LQ2apos said:


> Are you using a Comet Lake CPU or a later one? I'm leaving DLLBwEn at auto, it's been a mystery to me.


Currently i7-8086k on a Z390; will be upgrading soon enough


----------



## Logen1

Hello everyone!
Could you help me to understand why my VCCIO2 and VCCSA are so extremely hude?(((about 1.4V
I have i5-11400 and my XMP is 3600MHz / MSI b560m Mortar
I just can't let myself to set such big voltages for 24/7

I also will be very appreciated if you share your actual voltages with your Rocket lake CPUs


----------



## Ichirou

Logen1 said:


> Hello everyone!
> Could you help me to understand why my VCCIO2 and VCCSA are so extremely hude?(((about 1.4V
> I have i5-11400 and my XMP is 3600MHz / MSI b560m Mortar
> I just can't let myself to set such big voltages for 24/7
> 
> I also will be very appretiated if you share your actual voltages with your Rocket lake CPUs


Yeah, those are high. Just set them to 1.15-1.20V. That's probably all you'll ever need for 3,600 MHz.

Some motherboards/BIOSes overallocate just to make sure that the PC works, but never consider any other factors.


----------



## Logen1

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, those are high. Just set them to 1.15-1.20V. That's probably all you'll ever need for 3,600 MHz.
> 
> Some motherboards/BIOSes overallocate just to make sure that the PC works, but never consider any other factors.


but I can't set to 1.20V because of the PC don't start at all)


----------



## bscool

Logen1 said:


> Hello everyone!
> Could you help me to understand why my VCCIO2 and VCCSA are so extremely hude?(((about 1.4V
> I have i5-11400 and my XMP is 3600MHz / MSI b560m Mortar
> I just can't let myself to set such big voltages for 24/7
> 
> I also will be very appreciated if you share your actual voltages with your Rocket lake CPUs


If you cant run them lower than probably IMC lotto. RKL needs more sa and io if the IMC is not good. It needs more than previous gens at same clocks in gear 1. I needed a little more sa than io in gear 1. If something like 1.25io and 1.3sa or 1.3 io and 1.35 doesnt work @3600 probably IMC loser. Or it could be bios issue. I only use Apex and Unify X on z590 so no idea how b560 is. Usually 3600 was easy and getting past 3733 was the make or break. Hitting 3866+ was lotto winner.

If 1.4 sa/io hurts RKL there would be many dead or having issues by now. Many are/have been running 1.4+ sa/io since launch.

If your are that concerned about io/sa voltage then next step is to clock down to 3200 and io/sa should drop considerably.


----------



## LQ2apos

Logen1 said:


> Hello everyone!
> Could you help me to understand why my VCCIO2 and VCCSA are so extremely hude?(((about 1.4V
> I have i5-11400 and my XMP is 3600MHz / MSI b560m Mortar
> I just can't let myself to set such big voltages for 24/7
> 
> I also will be very appreciated if you share your actual voltages with your Rocket lake CPUs


I had some manual tuning here.


LQ2apos said:


> My very modest OC
> View attachment 2512457
> 
> 
> I find this interesting: TestMem5 (with profile Extreme1 by anta777) and OCCT memory AVX2 test both pass successfully with slightly tighter values (tRAS = 35, tRC = 58, tWR = 12, tRTP = 8, tWRRD_sg = 28, tWTR_L = 8, tXP = 4). Meanwhile, OCCT CPU AVX2 test catches an error within 15 minutes if tWR = 12, 30 minutes if tRAS = 35, but takes much longer to find errors with other timing values. Do you guys have any idea why?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: My last attempt (I had not known about OCCT CPU AVX2 test yet)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2512459


The board in the quote above does not show VCCSA and VCCIO values in its BIOS though. But as far as I have observed, when I only use XMP on the board, automatic VCCSA = 1.28V and automatic VDIMM = 1.35V. That XMP passes TM5 Extreme1 @ anta777 profile and OCCT AVX2 memory test but fails OCCT CPU AVX2 test (large-extreme-variable load), which is why I have decided to tune manually.

After I change to my current board (Asus B560-E), I observe the same behavior as above with BIOS version 1017. BIOS version 1203 is slightly better in XMP, it passes OCCT CPU AVX2 test (large-extreme-variable load). But it seems to hate my previous tight manual timings so much. LOL

So my conclusion is, high VCCSA and VCCIO2 could be because of both subpar IMC and VRM, a BIOS update could help but not so great.


----------



## jonas.tatu.jp

hello what timings can I change to decrease the latency?


----------



## mouacyk

jonas.tatu.jp said:


> hello what timings can I change to decrease the latency?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539052


See if tCWL of 15 or 14 is stable, otherwise it looks pretty dang good. Really, the only things to do are overclock the core and uncore to reduce the latency further.


----------



## Ichirou

jonas.tatu.jp said:


> hello what timings can I change to decrease the latency?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539052


Primaries and secondaries can probably go down further, with more voltage is necessary. Set tCKE to 0 if possible. the _dr and _dd timings can be set to 0.

*In other news, just got access to Galax's 5,000 MHz 2x8 GB super-binned Samsung B-die kit. Will report in on how it overclocks once I get it.*








GALAX HOF OC Lab Tempest D4-5000 DDR4-5000 memory is restricted to 100 sets worldwide.


GALAX brand is now offering overclocking DDR4 memory "HOF OC Lab Tempest D4-5000 8G x 2," which is limited to an entire sum of 100 sets worldwide and is available now. It will be available...




www.guru3d.com




(I considered getting two kits, but paying $$$$$ for only 32 GB of RAM is kind of iffy to me. One kit's fine just to try it out. Will test both high and low end frequencies.)


----------



## japau

jonas.tatu.jp said:


> hello what timings can I change to decrease the latency?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539052



Try to loose TRCD TRP to 17 so your IMC has easier time handle = tCL 16. so 16-17-17-x or similar
Try if you can run CR 1T how far because its 1T. 
Pump IO / SA + DRAM voltage higher to see what your IMC + RAM can do with high voltages.
See how far DRAM Frequency you can raise easily. 4100->4200-4300-4400.
Check the same with more relaxed primaries e.g 17-18-18-x + 1T / 2T for comparison.
Check where your RTL train comfortable and better with both CAS.
See if straight 16 CAS or 17 CAS runs also with higher Mhz.
Find the sweet spot for your setup.
Work the secondary timings while stress testing to find it stable.
Lower the voltages when you find the comfortable settings if possible.
Enjoy the system.

Personally i think you are on a dead end with 4000Mhz CAS 16 and more bandwidth would benefit you, so a different approach is required.


Merry Christmas and happy New year!


----------



## Needhelp666

jonas.tatu.jp said:


> hello what timings can I change to decrease the latency?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539052


Windows 11 has worse latency on comet lake, at least for me. Try windows 10 with the same settings.


----------



## Ichirou

japau said:


> Try to loose TRCD TRP to 17 so your IMC has easier time handle = tCL 16. so 16-17-17-x or similar


What is the relationship between tCL and tRCD/tRP? I sometimes do see non-flat tRCP/tRP values even on binned Samsung B-die kits on stock.
Maybe I should test it to see whether I can pull down my tCL from 15 to 14 on the kit in my signature...


----------



## BroadPwns

Logen1 said:


> Hello everyone!
> Could you help me to understand why my VCCIO2 and VCCSA are so extremely hude?(((about 1.4V
> I have i5-11400 and my XMP is 3600MHz / MSI b560m Mortar
> I just can't let myself to set such big voltages for 24/7
> 
> I also will be very appreciated if you share your actual voltages with your Rocket lake CPUs


Your issue might come from MSI voltage setting being handicapped, see 



 from my B560 Tomahawk (I'll post bios settings later)


----------



## truehighroller1

I ordered these memory sticks last night.
Ripjaws V
DDR4-4600MHz CL19-26-26-46 1.50V
32GB (2x16GB)
F4-4600C19D-32GVK

I'm trying to figure out if they're b die or not, does anyone know?


----------



## Ichirou

truehighroller1 said:


> I ordered these memory sticks last night.
> Ripjaws V
> DDR4-4600MHz CL19-26-26-46 1.50V
> 32GB (2x16GB)
> F4-4600C19D-32GVK
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if they're b die or not, does anyone know?


Nah, looks more like Hynix or maybe Micron.


----------



## BroadPwns

@Logen1


----------



## Logen1

bscool said:


> If you cant run them lower than probably IMC lotto. RKL needs more sa and io if the IMC is not good. It needs more than previous gens at same clocks in gear 1. I needed a little more sa than io in gear 1. If something like 1.25io and 1.3sa or 1.3 io and 1.35 doesnt work @3600 probably IMC loser. Or it could be bios issue. I only use Apex and Unify X on z590 so no idea how b560 is. Usually 3600 was easy and getting past 3733 was the make or break. Hitting 3866+ was lotto winner.
> 
> If 1.4 sa/io hurts RKL there would be many dead or having issues by now. Many are/have been running 1.4+ sa/io since launch.
> 
> If your are that concerned about io/sa voltage then next step is to clock down to 3200 and io/sa should drop considerably.


I've finally done it)
VCCIO2 = VCCSA = 1.25v 
is this voltage reliable for Rocket lake IMC?


----------



## bscool

Logen1 said:


> I've finally done it)
> VCCIO2 = VCCSA = 1.25v
> is this voltage reliable for Rocket lake IMC?


Yes that should be no problem. I have 3 different 11900k's that have been at that plus. 2 of them at 1.35 to 1.4v+ since day one for me.


----------



## Cpfan1

I have some stupid questions that i cant find answer on =)
1. Are there any downsides when enabling trace centering?
2. What is dllbwen?
3. Do bios predictions show proper values when ht is disabled?


----------



## Cpfan1

What did i do wrong here? HT is disabled, vccio should be more than enough..


----------



## BroadPwns

Cpfan1 said:


> What did i do wrong here? HT is disabled, vccio should be more than enough..


Throw a fan on RAM.


----------



## Cpfan1

BroadPwns said:


> Throw a fan on RAM.


Already did


----------



## BroadPwns

To my knowledge, errors so late in TM5 only happens due to overheating. Try setting tCKE to 7 too.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Cpfan1 said:


> What did i do wrong here? HT is disabled, vccio should be more than enough..


Your temps are excellent, I doubt this is the reason for your error.
I'd see if anything changes by making single increment adjustments to your VDIMM / VTT / VCSSA / VCCIO voltages.
Are your RTL / IOL values locked in? Assuming they are set to AUTO, do they remain the same between boot cycles or occasionally drift?

*EDIT: I just realized you opened HWiNFO _after_ you got the error (and it was only running for 30 seconds). Since it wasn't running throughout the test we have no idea what your temperatures/voltage were, this data is useless.


----------



## Cpfan1

SunnyStefan said:


> Your temps are excellent, I doubt this is the reason for your error.
> I'd see if anything changes by making single increment adjustments to your VDIMM / VTT / VCSSA / VCCIO voltages.
> Are your RTL / IOL values locked in? Assuming they are set to AUTO, do they remain the same between boot cycles or occasionally drift?
> 
> *EDIT: I just realized you opened HWiNFO _after_ you got the error (and it was only running for 30 seconds). Since it wasn't running throughout the test we have no idea what your temperatures/voltage were, this data is useless.


I always make sure that my temps are below 40 degrees, just forgot to open hwinfo =) RTL/iol are not locked but they stayed the same.

Yesterday i changed something (lowered io/sa and increased dram i think, just a bit) and passed 6 cycles without error.

Today on cold boot i got my first error in 4 minutes, rtl iol havent changed. How do i make sure that my overclock is stable between cold boots except for obvious rtl/iol lock?

I lowered io/sa because i noticed that icreasing vccio (and vccsa) above certain value is causing my system being unable to boot and weird things to happen with rtl/iol block
*_*

2 hours later im stuck with this, no matter how i adjust io/sa/dram nothing changes =D










___

Solved by making trdrdsg and twrwrsg equal


----------



## Ichirou

Cpfan1 said:


> I always make sure that my temps are below 40 degrees, just forgot to open hwinfo =) RTL/iol are not locked but they stayed the same.
> 
> Yesterday i changed something (lowered io/sa and increased dram i think, just a bit) and passed 6 cycles without error.
> 
> Today on cold boot i got my first error in 4 minutes, rtl iol havent changed. How do i make sure that my overclock is stable between cold boots except for obvious rtl/iol lock?
> 
> I lowered io/sa because i noticed that icreasing vccio (and vccsa) above certain value is causing my system being unable to boot and weird things to happen with rtl/iol block
> *_*
> 
> 2 hours later im stuck with this, no matter how i adjust io/sa/dram nothing changes =D
> 
> View attachment 2539515
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Solved by making trdrdsg and twrwrsg equal


Try lowering cache clock or raising Vcore. An unstable cache can sometimes throw a random error even if the RAM is perfectly stable. Or just retest a few times and get an average. VCCIO has a very tight sweet spot effect, even to 0.01V, so you _will_ have to test every single value. VCCSA is a lot more forgiving, but since you're trying to run RAM at 4,400 MHz, it'll probably need to be something like 1.35V at the lowest. Just slap 1.40V onto it and focus on VCCIO for now.

Your RTL/IOLs might be improperly trained. Even if you equalize them to 63/63, it is 8/7. In general, if they're from the same kit/batch, they should be equal, but there can be exceptions. To force them to retrain, put them back on Auto and forcefully make the PC fail to boot by deliberately entering some bad timing setting. Then revert it to boot again and see if you can get them to equalize. Rinse and repeat. Generally, RTL and IOLs move up/down by the same amount; that is, RTL±1 = IOL±1. So you should try to get 70/70 and 14/14. Afterwards, drop all of them by -1 until it's 63/63 and 7/7.


----------



## bscool

@Cpfan1 You will need a really good bin of 2x8 to run those clocks and timings Also IMC comes into play. But out of a dozen plus 2x8 kits I have with the top 2x8 I have 4000c15-16-16 and 4800c18-2-22 gskill kits 4400c17 is nothing to sneeze at Not all older 2x8 will do that, will take a really good bin. Also look if they are a0/a1 or a2 pcb layout. My A2 kits do better at higher frequency.

It is easy to get skewed seeing these new 2x16 kits doing 4400c16. it is because the are freakin good bins. They must use the best chips for 2x16 b die because pretty every kits I have out of a dozen plus 2x16 kits will do 4400c16.

Very few to none of my 2x8 can do 4400c16.

Edit I am talking at a useable voltage like 1.55 to 1.6v dram.


----------



## LQ2apos

LQ2apos said:


> Those timings on BIOS version 1017 pass TM5 Absolut @ anta777 profile, but fail on y-cruncher AVX2 stress test. I had to change the following settings to pass 12 hours of that y-cruncher test. (Actually passed almost 14 hours.)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: BIOS settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCCSA = Memory VCCIO = 1.20V
> VDIMM = 1.38V
> RttWr = 120
> RttPark = 48
> RttNom = 40
> AVX2: Enabled
> AVX512: Disabled (to trigger AVX2 test on y-cruncher)


Follow-up. I had to increase VCCSA and VCCIO a little bit in order to pass 12 hours of y-cruncher AVX512 stress test. The following settings would be my daily driver for music and video production, until 13th gen comes.


Spoiler: Settings not shown in the following screenshots




VCCSA = 1.24V
Memory VCCIO (VCCIO2) = 1.22V
Main VCCIO = 1.05V
tWTRS = Auto
tWTRL = Auto
tXP = Auto
RttWr = 120
RttPark = 48
RttNom = 40
MRC Fast Boot: Disabled
Delay after Train: Enabled
MCH Full Check: Enabled
Mem Over Clock Fail Count = 2
Round Trip Latency: Enabled
Turn Around Timing Training: Disabled
Turn-around Timings Guard-band: Disabled
Enabling the last two settings above has no effect on behavior of fluctuation in AIDA64 memory latency benchmark so far: Around 1~2ns of deviation.



Screenshots


Spoiler: y-cruncher AVX512 stress test



I played with some manual CPU settings here:

LLC = 4
Power Duty Control = Extreme
Power Phase Control = Extreme









Before this run, I had another 12-hour run where I left the settings above at default (all Auto, except Power Duty Control was T.Probe). It passed successfully too, the only difference was the maximum CPU temperature: It was 4°C cooler.





Spoiler: TM5 Absolut @ anta777 profile



Used manual CPU settings in the spoiler above.








I had another run with those CPU settings at their defaults. It passed too.





Spoiler: y-cruncher AVX2 stress test



Disabled AVX512 to trigger this stress test. Manual CPU settings in the spoiler above failed in 3rd iteration. I had to revert them to their defaults to pass.













Spoiler: AIDA64 benchmark















I would try tinkering tREFIx9 alongside tREFI next, to see if they benefit latency. After that, maybe... slopes?


----------



## bscool

I know this thread is mainly older gens Ill throw a 12th gen ddr4 in

z690 Strix A d4 bios 901

4133c15-15-15 2x16 DR b die

1.55v dram

sa/dq 1.35(auto)


----------



## MrFox

Anyone get this error immediately upon launch of TM5 with any profile other than the default? I have the same issue on two systems. The program does not even run long enough to begin testing. I have to click OK about 20 times, then TM5 closes. TM5 works correctly using the default profile.


----------



## BroadPwns

LQ2apos said:


> Follow-up. I had to increase VCCSA and VCCIO a little bit in order to pass 12 hours of y-cruncher AVX512 stress test. The following settings would be my daily driver for music and video production, until 13th gen comes.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Settings not shown in the following screenshots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VCCSA = 1.24V
> Memory VCCIO (VCCIO2) = 1.22V
> Main VCCIO = 1.05V
> tWTRS = Auto
> tWTRL = Auto
> tXP = Auto
> RttWr = 120
> RttPark = 48
> RttNom = 40
> MRC Fast Boot: Disabled
> Delay after Train: Enabled
> MCH Full Check: Enabled
> Mem Over Clock Fail Count = 2
> Round Trip Latency: Enabled
> Turn Around Timing Training: Disabled
> Turn-around Timings Guard-band: Disabled
> Enabling the last two settings above has no effect on behavior of fluctuation in AIDA64 memory latency benchmark so far: Around 1~2ns of deviation.
> 
> 
> 
> Screenshots
> 
> 
> Spoiler: y-cruncher AVX512 stress test
> 
> 
> 
> I played with some manual CPU settings here:
> 
> LLC = 4
> Power Duty Control = Extreme
> Power Phase Control = Extreme
> 
> View attachment 2539576
> 
> Before this run, I had another 12-hour run where I left the settings above at default (all Auto, except Power Duty Control was T.Probe). It passed successfully too, the only difference was the maximum CPU temperature: It was 4°C cooler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: TM5 Absolut @ anta777 profile
> 
> 
> 
> Used manual CPU settings in the spoiler above.
> View attachment 2539577
> 
> I had another run with those CPU settings at their defaults. It passed too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: y-cruncher AVX2 stress test
> 
> 
> 
> Disabled AVX512 to trigger this stress test. Manual CPU settings in the spoiler above failed in 3rd iteration. I had to revert them to their defaults to pass.
> View attachment 2539578
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: AIDA64 benchmark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539579
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would try tinkering tREFIx9 alongside tREFI next, to see if they benefit latency. After that, maybe... slopes?


I know its mostly for sport, but why bother with y-cruncher AVX512 on a mainstream CPU, that will _never_ see these instructions in use? It's been so many years since it got released and it's still only in specialistic machine learning stuff, that absolutely need a Xeon and a dedicated workstation, nothing foreshadows AVX512 being used broadly. Just go with the AVX one.

Also, tREFI x9 usually gets set properly on auto, there's barely need to touch it, just make sure it's 127.



bscool said:


> I know this thread is mainly older gens Ill throw a 12th gen ddr4 in
> 
> z690 Strix A d4 bios 901
> 
> 4133c15-15-15 2x16 DR b die
> 
> 1.55v dram
> 
> sa/dq 1.35(auto)


Fairly sure tWTR can't be set below 4, or it defaults to whatever its base value is, despite being shown otherwise in bios, ATC or other software.



MrFox said:


> Anyone get this error immediately upon launch of TM5 with any profile other than the default? I have the same issue on two systems. The program does not even run long enough to begin testing. I have to click OK about 20 times, then TM5 closes. TM5 works correctly using the default profile.
> View attachment 2539609


Can be wrong memory allocation in the profile, compare Testing Window Size between profiles.


----------



## bscool

@BroadPwns my tWTR is below 4? Where do I find that? Edit I see what your talking about. Ok

So guys like @safedisk dont know this as he sets it there also. You think he is that uninformed? I find that hard to believe.


----------



## BroadPwns

bscool said:


> @BroadPwns my tWTR is below 4? Where do I find that?
> 
> Are you talking about the 0 timing that is for ddr5?


No, tWTR_S


----------



## bscool

BroadPwns said:


> No, tWTR_S


@safedisk who works for Asus set its there(less than 4). So he is uninformed?

What are you basing it off of testing and experience or what? reading jdec pdf?

Just curious I see a lot of people say things they do not test and verify for themself.


----------



## BroadPwns

bscool said:


> @safedisk who works for Asus set its there. So he uninformed?
> 
> What are you basing it off of testing and experience or what? reading jdec pdf?
> 
> Just curious I see a lot of people say things they do not test and verify for themself.


Wait a sec... I just realized my B560 Tomahawk got that timing on "2" as well and I'm sure as hell I didn't set any timing on 2, as there's not a single one that the controller can actually set below 4 (despite bios being able to set some on 0 lol). So... That one's wrong on my part, I do have both tWTRs set to 4, maybe ATC got a display bug or there is no actual tWTR_S timing.


----------



## MrFox

BroadPwns said:


> Can be wrong memory allocation in the profile, compare Testing Window Size between profiles.


Yes, that was the problem. Thank you.


----------



## bscool

BroadPwns said:


> Wait a sec... I just realized my B560 Tomahawk got that timing on "2" as well and I'm sure as hell I didn't set any timing on 2, as there's not a single one that the controller can actually set below 4 (despite bios being able to set some on 0 lol). So... That one's wrong on my part, I do have both tWTRs set to 4, maybe ATC got a display bug or there is no actual tWTR_S timing.


I set tWRRD sg and tWWRRD dg and it will set tWTRs.

But I know from looking at @safedisk txt and cmo files he sets WTR_S to 2.

from txt "DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]"


----------



## BroadPwns

bscool said:


> I set tWRRD sg and tWWRRD dg and it will set tWTRs.
> 
> But I know from looking at @safedisk txt and cmo files he sets WTR_S to 2.
> 
> from txt "DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]"


My best guess is this timing doesn't really exist for Intel platform, I have it set to 4 and ATC sees it as two, there's also a large discrepancy of 4 between tWTR_L and S in safedisks setttings. But well, if safedisk does have an insiders knowledge, he might be able to explain this.


----------



## LQ2apos

BroadPwns said:


> I know its mostly for sport, but why bother with y-cruncher AVX512 on a mainstream CPU, that will _never_ see these instructions in use? It's been so many years since it got released and it's still only in specialistic machine learning stuff, that absolutely need a Xeon and a dedicated workstation, nothing foreshadows AVX512 being used broadly. Just go with the AVX one.
> 
> Also, tREFI x9 usually gets set properly on auto, there's barely need to touch it, just make sure it's 127.


I did question that though.


LQ2apos said:


> I'm trying y-cruncher AVX512 stress test too. It's hard to pass the 2nd cycle of it (sometimes even 1st cycle). But is this stress test too unrealistic?


The problem is I had left CPU AVX2 and AVX512 settings on Auto before I ran y-cruncher for the first time, and that program chose to run AVX512 stress test. I had to take a quick search, fortunately there are some VST plugins utilizing AVX512 now. I hear that AVX512 is turned off 12th gen CPUs until E-cores are turned off; well I can wait for 13th gen since my system is relatively new.

I will check tREFIx9 soon. However I recently found a couple of tREFI and tREFIx9 values that are strictly fit; I will try spending some time testing them.


----------



## BroadPwns

LQ2apos said:


> I did question that though.
> 
> The problem is that I had left CPU AVX2 and AVX512 settings on Auto before I ran y-cruncher for the first time, and that program chose to run AVX512 stress test. I had to take a quick search, fortunately there are some VST plugins utilizing AVX512 now. I hear that AVX512 is turned off 12th gen CPUs until E-cores are turned off; well I can wait for 13th gen since my system is relatively new.
> 
> I will check tREFIx9 soon. However I recently found a couple of tREFI and tREFIx9 values that are strictly fit.


VST plugins will never reach the electricity raping level of y-cruncher or even get remotely close to it, I'd personally wouldn't bother and just smack the living poo out of AVX2 instead.

Another thing to mention is that you're thermal throttling, which invalidates any stress testing.


----------



## Cpfan1

Ichirou said:


> Your RTL/IOLs might be improperly trained.


Thanks man! i think im close to being done, i changed cl17 to cl16 and its been a lot easier and predictable since then.

I also heard that IO/vcore and SA voltages should be close to one another but i dont know how close. Right now i am using 1.33/1.39/1.39.

About rtl/iols, i cant manage to train them 60 60 7/7, im on 6/7 right now and i wonder if it can cause issues in future. ill be playing stress tests for next 10 hours.


----------



## Ichirou

Cpfan1 said:


> Thanks man! i think im close to being done, i changed cl17 to cl16 and its been a lot easier and predictable since then.
> 
> I also heard that IO/vcore and SA voltages should be close to one another but i dont know how close. Right now i am using 1.33/1.39/1.39.
> 
> About rtl/iols, i cant manage to train them 60 60 7/7, im on 6/7 right now and i wonder if it can cause issues in future. ill be playing stress tests for next 10 hours.


Vcore is kind of independent from SA/IO as it's more about the CPU core/cache.

For 4.4 GHz, your SA/IO values are more or less correct, but you could probably pull down IO by a fair amount and still be stable.
For your RTL/IOLs, the screenshot you gave was 63/63 and 8/7. If it's set to 60/60, it would be 5/4. I don't know how you got 60/60 and 6/7 when you're supposed to drop them all by -1 together.
Can I get a new screenshot of ATC?


----------



## Cpfan1

Ichirou said:


> Vcore is kind of independent from SA/IO as it's more about the CPU core/cache.
> 
> For 4.4 GHz, your SA/IO values are more or less correct, but you could probably pull down IO by a fair amount and still be stable.
> For your RTL/IOLs, the screenshot you gave was 63/63 and 8/7. If it's set to 60/60, it would be 5/4. I don't know how you got 60/60 and 6/7 when you're supposed to drop them all by -1 together.
> Can I get a new screenshot of ATC?












Hyperthreading is disabled, RTL/IOL set on AUTO as i still cant understand how to set them properly. Running a short 25 min memtest right now.


----------



## Ichirou

Cpfan1 said:


> View attachment 2539647
> 
> 
> Hyperthreading is disabled, RTL/IOL set on AUTO as i still cant understand how to set them properly. Running a short 25 min memtest right now.


The RTL/IOLs seem to be better trained this time since the RTLs are much lower than the ones you had before. I'd suggest to just keep these values as-is.


----------



## YaqY

Ichirou said:


> Vcore is kind of independent from SA/IO as it's more about the CPU core/cache.
> 
> For 4.4 GHz, your SA/IO values are more or less correct, but you could probably pull down IO by a fair amount and still be stable.
> For your RTL/IOLs, the screenshot you gave was 63/63 and 8/7. If it's set to 60/60, it would be 5/4. I don't know how you got 60/60 and 6/7 when you're supposed to drop them all by -1 together.
> Can I get a new screenshot of ATC?


Dropping cas by 1 drops Rtls In both channels by two in most cases.


----------



## MrFox

These settings are working out pretty decent for me.


----------



## Cpfan1

Pain  im about to load 3200 xmp...


----------



## storm-chaser

In colder weather I should be able to go even slightly higher.


----------



## Ichirou

MrFox said:


> These settings are working out pretty decent for me.


How would one get an overlay like the one you have in the top right? It looks sick


----------



## 7empe

Cpfan1 said:


> View attachment 2539654
> 
> 
> Pain  im about to load 3200 xmp...


What's your cache clock? Try to drop it by 1 or increase vccio slightly.


----------



## Cpfan1

7empe said:


> What's your cache clock? Try to drop it by 1 or increase vccio slightly.


Usually 51/47 but running 50/46 right now and i just got one error in 1 hour of extreme1. I wonder if its too much IO since i have HT disabled..


----------



## BroadPwns

Cpfan1 said:


> Usually 51/47 but running 50/46 right now and i just got one error in 1 hour of extreme1. I wonder if its too much IO since i have HT disabled..


Work on clock and primaries first, get them as best as possible while leaving anything other on auto, make sure you can get at least 10 TM5 runs with no errors. Only then move on to other timings, else it'll be a simple pain of a troubleshooting. HT shouldn't affect your RAM overclocking much and it's not ideal for overall system performance either.


----------



## Ichirou

Cpfan1 said:


> Usually 51/47 but running 50/46 right now and i just got one error in 1 hour of extreme1. I wonder if its too much IO since i have HT disabled..


If you use TM5 with the 1usmus config, I'll be able to better diagnose the error codes; I'm not familiar with Extreme1 all that much, to be honest.

If you want to rule out the cache as a possibility, drop it like a rock to 40x temporarily to test with, and raise it back up afterwards.


----------



## MrFox

Ichirou said:


> How would one get an overlay like the one you have in the top right? It looks sick


Thanks. That is an AIDA64 Sensor Panel. They are kind of a pain to configure at first, super easy once you get the hang of it. I found it easier to start with a template and modify it. You can "import" it using the Sensor Panel Manager and modify it to your liking.

Sensor Panel Template.zip


----------



## Ichirou

MrFox said:


> Thanks. That is an AIDA64 Sensor Panel. They are kind of a pain to configure at first, super easy once you get the hang of it. I found it easier to start with a template and modify it. You can "import" it using the Sensor Panel Manager and modify it to your liking.
> 
> Sensor Panel Template.zip


I already own AIDA64, but I've never really use it for anything beyond the Memory/Cache Benchmark test. Is there an ELI5 guide for it, or will I find it by just looking around in the program?


----------



## MrFox

You can get to it by right-clicking the tray icon and selecting "Show Sensor Panel" and that will open a generic one. Once that opens you can right-click that to open "Sensor Panel Manager" to edit, import or export. In AIDA64 Preferences you can adjust the size, opacity and other things.

There are a number of YouTube videos showing more advanced options, and there is this one from FinalWire (AIDA64) developer.


----------



## Ichirou

MrFox said:


> You can get to it by right-clicking the tray icon and selecting "Show Sensor Panel" and that will open a generic one. Once that opens you can right-click that to open "Sensor Panel Manager" to edit, import or export. In AIDA64 Preferences you can adjust the size, opacity and other things.
> 
> There are a number of YouTube videos showing more advanced options, and there is this one from FinalWire (AIDA64) developer.


Damn, nice, it works! I can see that some of the labels were manually entered; how can I make it always on top?


----------



## MrFox

Ichirou said:


> Damn, nice, it works! I can see that some of the labels were manually entered; how can I make it always on top?


Glad you like it. I have been using it for many years and enjoy it.
In AIDA64 Preferences > Sensor Panel








Scope out other things in the preferences as well. For example, if you want the sensor readings to update more frequently...









OSD Panel is a similarly useful feature. You can use it for on-screen display during gaming much like MSI Afterburner+RTSS on-screen display.


----------



## Cpfan1

Thanks for all the tips guys. Before i start everything from scratch ill ask you one last question. What do you think this one error could mean? Temps excluded

Customize: *Extreme1* @anta777
Start testing at 17:02, 1.4Gb x10
*Error in test #2 *through 49m 11s.
Testing is completed through 1:59.31,
detected 1 error(s).


----------



## Ichirou

Cpfan1 said:


> Thanks for all the tips guys. Before i start everything from scratch ill ask you one last question. What do you think this one error could mean? Temps excluded
> 
> Customize: *Extreme1* @anta777
> Start testing at 17:02, 1.4Gb x10
> *Error in test #2 *through 49m 11s.
> Testing is completed through 1:59.31,
> detected 1 error(s).


Use the 1usmus config and I'll be able to tell you; Extreme1 is beyond my knowledge


----------



## BroadPwns

It's supposedly linked to N/A, which means nobody got a single clue. Given it's a Block mirroring between dies operator and the only error (I believe), it's either tRFC/tREFI fart, tertiary timing mismatch or voltage/termination voltage drop due to heat.


----------



## LQ2apos

BroadPwns said:


> Another thing to mention is that you're thermal throttling, which invalidates any stress testing.


That's quite unfortunate. My CPU is a non-K, coupled with B560 which does not provide CPU overclocking options, except VCCSA, VCCIO and VCCIO2. I'm using a 360mm AIO already. I had noticed thermal throttling during AVX2 stress tests (OCCT CPU AVX2 test - large-extreme-variable load, y-cruncher stress test) even when VCCSA = VCCIO2 = 1.15V, VCCIO = 1.05V. So what should I do next?

Tinker with voltages again?
Apply better thermal paste?
Try a better cooling solution, like Arctic Liquid Freezer II?


----------



## MrFox

I thought you guys might like this. I noticed that memory stability is very thermally sensitive. My memory tests would pass with flying colors when my ambients were low and the memory chips stay under about 45°C, but around that temperature and higher, they would start throwing errors with TM5. My Patriot Viper Blackout modules have no thermal sensors, so I could not validate this with those modules, but they also have very thick and heavy cast aluminum heat sinks. They seldom errored out like the G.SKILLs do, but the G.SKILL Ripjaws V heat sinks are very thin and flimsy. This was never an issue running 4000MHz, but pushing 4500 with close to 1.600V it was an issue.

So, I found some "RAM Jackets" for liquid cooling on eBay and built my own heat sinks for them. I really like how they turned out. I cut the aluminum finned heat sinks to the correct lengths and drilled holes for the screws intended for mounting a water block. I put a 1.0mm Gelid 12 w/mK pad between the jackets and heat sink. This has dropped the temps more than 12°C under stress and TM5 errors are no more.

I need to trim the thermal pad back so it is not visible. After tightening the screws, the pad has compressed and is just a tad wider than it was when I cut them to fit the aluminum finned plate.

Parts: 4 Pack of DDR3/DDR4 RAM Memory DIMM Heatsink B-MRCOV-X for Water Cooling Block | eBay and 5x Silver-White Heat Sink LED 150x20x6mm Heat Sink Aluminum Cooling Fin | eBay

It also equalized the temps since they are physically connected. The module closest to the CPU used to get hotter because of less air circulation. The one on the outside edge of the mobo has the fans from my MO-RA 360 blowing on it.


----------



## Ichirou

MrFox said:


> I thought you guys might like this. I noticed that memory stability is very thermally sensitive. My memory tests would pass with flying colors when my ambients were low and the memory chips stay under about 45°C, but around that temperature and higher, they would start throwing errors with TM5. My Patriot Viper Blackout modules have no thermal sensors, so I could not validate this with those modules, but they also have very thick and heavy cast aluminum heat sinks. They seldom errored out like the G.SKILLs do, but the G.SKILL Ripjaws V heat sinks are very thin and flimsy. This was never an issue running 4000MHz, but pushing 4500 with close to 1.600V it was an issue.
> 
> So, I found some "RAM Jackets" for liquid cooling on eBay and built my own heat sinks for them. I really like how they turned out. I cut the aluminum finned heat sinks to the correct lengths and drilled holes for the screws intended for mounting a water block. I put a 1.0mm Gelid 12 w/mK pad between the jackets and heat sink. This has dropped the temps more than 12°C under stress and TM5 errors are no more.
> 
> I need to trim the thermal pad back so it is not visible. After tightening the screws, the pad has compressed and is just a tad wider than it was when I cut them to fit the aluminum finned plate.
> 
> Parts: 4 Pack of DDR3/DDR4 RAM Memory DIMM Heatsink B-MRCOV-X for Water Cooling Block | eBay and 5x Silver-White Heat Sink LED 150x20x6mm Heat Sink Aluminum Cooling Fin | eBay
> 
> It also equalized the temps since they are physically connected. The module closest to the CPU used to get hotter because of less air circulation. The one on the outside edge of the mobo has the fans from my MO-RA 360 blowing on it.


Yep, RAM can indeed throw errors if it gets too hot. Every kit has a different temperature tolerance. That is why it gets important to add additional cooling if you heavily overclock it. (Also, use anta777 Extreme1 or 1usmus instead of the default serj profile.)

There are custom heat spreaders with screw holes for RAM waterblocks available for cheap on AliExpress; you don't need to go to eBay. With a waterblock, you'll be able to add it to your MO-RA loop.


----------



## MrFox

Ichirou said:


> Yep, RAM can indeed throw errors if it gets too hot. Every kit has a different temperature tolerance. That is why it gets important to add additional cooling if you heavily overclock it. (Also, use anta777 Extreme1 or 1usmus instead of the default serj profile.)
> 
> There are custom heat spreaders with screw holes for RAM waterblocks available for cheap on AliExpress; you don't need to go to eBay. With a waterblock, you'll be able to add it to your MO-RA loop.


These heat spreaders are made specifically for that purpose. I almost bought a waterblock for them and initially intended to. I had one loaded in a shopping cart and everything, but I got to thinking about what a hassle it would be dealing with the short runs of flexible tubing and decided that would likely be more trouble than beneficial. The RAM is positioned too close to the CPU to do that without creating an inconvenience when servicing things. I am constantly taking things apart and fussing with different CPUs and RAM sticks.

While not as effective as water cooling would be, I think the aluminum finned heat sink is adequate and certainly more convenient. I think it also adds kind of a cool industrial look to the setup.


----------



## Cpfan1

BroadPwns said:


> It's supposedly linked to N/A, which means nobody got a single clue. Given it's a Block mirroring between dies operator and the only error (I believe), it's either tRFC/tREFI fart, tertiary timing mismatch or voltage/termination voltage drop due to heat.


You were absolutely right, it was trfc/trefi releated and i did not expected that. Memory didnt exceed 40 degrees yet it was unstable even at 48000/380. 34376/400 works fine now. AIDA results are not as good as i expected them to be and i did not fully tested cache yet.


----------



## Ichirou

Cpfan1 said:


> You were absolutely right, it was trfc/trefi releated and i did not expected that. Memory didnt exceed 40 degrees yet it was unstable even at 48000/380. 34376/400 works fine now. AIDA results are not as good as i expected them to be and i did not fully tested cache yet.
> View attachment 2539857


tRFC/tREFI related errors are almost always heat-related. Just because it's stable 99% of the time at high temps, that 1% can still throw an error.
It's kind of like the CPU when it's hovering over 85C; most CPUs can properly handle it, but sometimes unstable OCs will just crash.

I do believe some of us pointed out the possibility of heat, but I think you discounted that claiming it couldn't possibly be...

Anecdotally speaking, for my particular kit, I can max out tREFI and tighten tRFC with tRCP+tRP at 20, but if I set it at 19, I have to loosen them instead due to heat errors. Performance ends up being about the same though. Perhaps once I have the sticks under a waterblock, I'll be able to max it again.


----------



## MrFox

I can see why it would be difficult for some to attribute memory instability with heat because the temperature at which the memory begins to malfunction and show errors is much lower than a CPU or GPU. Although not ideal, a CPU can approach 95-100°C before it begins having serious performance or stability issues, but RAM starts having instability issues around 45-50°C. Unless you have been informed, it seems illogical to consider such a low temperature to constitute overheating.


----------



## Ichirou

MrFox said:


> I can see why it would be difficult for some to attribute memory instability with heat because the temperature at which the memory begins to malfunction and show errors is much lower than a CPU or GPU. Although not ideal, a CPU can approach 95-100°C before it begins having serious performance or stability issues, but RAM starts having instability issues around 45-50°C. Unless you have been informed, it seems illogical to consider such a low temperature to constitute overheating.


Different RAM kits and dies have different temperature tolerances; they are impossible to generalize. A max temp of "45-50C" is not going to be true for everyone.
And certain CPUs start getting problems even above 80-85C, so...


----------



## MrFox

Ichirou said:


> Different RAM kits and dies have different temperature tolerances; they are impossible to generalize. A max temp of "45-50C" is not going to be true for everyone.
> And certain CPUs start getting problems even above 80-85C, so...


It will vary by IC, voltage, clock speed, timings, etc. But, it still seems illogical if one assumes the thermal threshold of memory is going to be similar to a processor. The variance applies to all silicon. As clock speed increases, the tolerance for thermal increase often seems to diminish. Operating at 50°C might be stable at 3200MHz, while it might not be stable at 4200MHz. 

Even two parts bearing exactly the same model number can differ. For example, CPU A and CPU B can be the same in every respect other than silicon / ASIC quality and their behavior will differ because of it. One will overclock well, while another might not. I have three memory kits with identical Samsung B-die IC part numbers and all three behave differently, with differing overclock thresholds and voltage requirements.


----------



## RichKnecht

Just installed 64GB of G-Skill 3600 RAM and want to OC it a bit. The part # is F4-3600C16D-32GTZN. The specs are 16-16-16-36 and it is a b-die kit. I ran the Aida64 Benchmark just to get a baseline at stock XMP settings and have attached the image. I've been reading a bit and it seems you can use the Ryzen DRAM calculator to get a rough idea on where to start. Before I go changing stuff, is this for real? The numbers it "spit out" weren't all that crazy, but it did want the voltage to be set to 1.4 instead of 1.35. When searching for RAM, I noticed that a lot of the CL14 b-die kits ran voltage at 1.45. Is there another way to figure out safe timings, etc? Or, should I plug in the Ryzen numbers and see what happens?


----------



## Scandaal

how to make cr1 on 4000 cl16-16-16 msi b560m a pro
my oc 
I was able to make a boot in early command training - enabled / late - disabled
i want to make cr1 i know it's real


----------



## CptSpig

RichKnecht said:


> Just installed 64GB of G-Skill 3600 RAM and want to OC it a bit. The part # is F4-3600C16D-32GTZN. The specs are 16-16-16-36 and it is a b-die kit. I ran the Aida64 Benchmark just to get a baseline at stock XMP settings and have attached the image. I've been reading a bit and it seems you can use the Ryzen DRAM calculator to get a rough idea on where to start. Before I go changing stuff, is this for real? The numbers it "spit out" weren't all that crazy, but it did want the voltage to be set to 1.4 instead of 1.35. When searching for RAM, I noticed that a lot of the CL14 b-die kits ran voltage at 1.45. Is there another way to figure out safe timings, etc? Or, should I plug in the Ryzen numbers and see what happens?


This is my 24/7 OC for G.Skill 32Gb of 3600 CL 16 at 4000 with timmings. 64 Gb is much harder to get stable on X299 platform.


----------



## RichKnecht

CptSpig said:


> This is my 24/7 OC for G.Skill 32Gb of 3600 CL 16 at 4000 with timmings. 64 Gb is much harder to get stable on X299 platform.


Thanks for that info. I know that 64 would be harder, but for what I do I was always using ~85% of the 32GB RAM I had installed. I was tired of closing programs to make another program work smoother. I was going to go to 128, and may still go there, but I am trying the 64 first. Now I need to find a decent RAM tester. I have Memtest loaded on a USB, but was looking for something that runs within the Windows environment. What voltages are you using? I have been searching, and it seems a lot of people bump up the voltage to 1.45.


----------



## RichKnecht

OK, I messed around a little and I think I improved it a little. Ran ramtest for an hour and no errors popped up. I tried lowering Tfrc a touch, but it threw an error in ramtest within 7 minutes..


----------



## CptSpig

RichKnecht said:


> Thanks for that info. I know that 64 would be harder, but for what I do I was always using ~85% of the 32GB RAM I had installed. I was tired of closing programs to make another program work smoother. I was going to go to 128, and may still go there, but I am trying the 64 first. Now I need to find a decent RAM tester. I have Memtest loaded on a USB, but was looking for something that runs within the Windows environment. What voltages are you using? I have been searching, and it seems a lot of people bump up the voltage to 1.45.


1.4V for the above settings.


----------



## robertr1

@shamino1978 it'd be good to see the Prime board getting some bios love. Now having tuned on it a lot the following would be good.

1. CPU Spread spectrum. If there's no external clock gen, please update the bios to keep the bclk closer to 100 as MSI has done
2. Much better 1T support. It's pretty awful.
3. Better SA tuning. Compared to MSI users running similar settings, we need a lot more SA to hit the same
4. Better frequency ceiling. Going past 4200 with SR bdie seems borderline a brick wall so a higher ceiling would be great to have. Again the Pro A is leading here as well

I'm not trying to make this a MSI vs Asus thing but it is directly comparable and I have no doubt the Prime P D4 can do it as well with a little attention. Realistically, we had one Bios update since launch.


----------



## RichKnecht

CptSpig said:


> 1.4V for the above settings.


Oops, they are set to 1.45V. I'll lower the voltage and test again.


----------



## LionAlonso

Loosening TRFC and TREFI implies thay dram is stable at hotter temps with Samsung bdie? at ++4000Mhz? 
Or the temps threshold is always around 50 degrees? 
i mean, if I loose TRFC and TREFi hard, can i make them stable at higher temps? 
also, voltage doesnt help with that kind of instability right?


----------



## Cpfan1

LionAlonso said:


> Loosening TRFC and TREFI implies thay dram is stable at hotter temps with Samsung bdie? at ++4000Mhz?
> Or the temps threshold is always around 50 degrees?
> i mean, if I loose TRFC and TREFi hard, can i make them stable at higher temps?
> also, voltage doesnt help with that kind of instability right?


Yes/yes

I also try to keep temps below 45 degrees, thats when my sticks might start pooping themselves


----------



## Cpfan1

In case of vccio and vccsa, should i trust bios or hwinfo? Hwinfo shows 1.408 for sa and i have 1.37 in bios. Motherboard im using is the maximus apex xii.


----------



## LionAlonso

Cpfan1 said:


> Yes/yes
> 
> I also try to keep temps below 45 degrees, thats when my sticks might start pooping themselves


I had 4 questions, i guess that ur yes are for first two? 
i will try to loose a bit that values when summer comes in because for me it will be kinda difficult to mantain even with a fan pointing at them


----------



## Cpfan1

LionAlonso said:


> I had 4 questions, i guess that ur yes are for first two?
> i will try to loose a bit that values when summer comes in because for me it will be kinda difficult to mantain even with a fan pointing at them


I musunderstood your question. Higher voltage will help you to increase trefi and tighten trfc but if your temps go above 45 you might start getting errors. And also as far as i know: the lower your memory temps are, the easier it is to tighten trfc and increase trefi. Its a double edged sword.


----------



## LionAlonso

Cpfan1 said:


> I musunderstood your question. Higher voltage will help you to increase trefi and tighten trfc but if your temps go above 45 you might start getting errors. And also as far as i know: the lower your memory temps are, the easier it is to tighten trfc and increase trefi. Its a double edged sword.


So if I loosen TREFI and TRFC, putting down TREFI and up TRFC can u run my sticks hotter? With the same voltage (around 1.48)


----------



## Cpfan1

LionAlonso said:


> So if I loosen TREFI and TRFC, putting down TREFI and up TRFC can u run my sticks hotter? With the same voltage (around 1.48)


Yes, but you have to do your own testing


----------



## Ichirou

@LionAlonso @Cpfan1
tRFC and tREFI are very similar timings in terms of how they respond to temperature.
The former is voltage linked for specific dies such as Samsung B-die, while the latter isn't. Most other companies don't scale tRFC with voltage.
On certain dies such as Micron, tREFI results in better performance gains than tRFC does.

If your kits are bordering on max temps, you'll have to loosen them to make overclocking everything else easier.
Generally, if you are overclocking the primaries, it is best to keep those two loose so you don't soft-wall yourself.
tRCD+tRP is linked to temperature as well, so tightening may be limited if tRFC and/or tREFI is pushed too hard.

HWInfo is more accurate for VCCSA/VCCIO readings than whatever you set in the BIOS.


----------



## Lineage

zebra_hun said:


> I'm happy with my daily settings, low voltages.
> This is a G.Skill 3200 CL14 GTZR 2x16GB kit, overclocked to 4133CL17. Super fine min fps in games.
> 4H30Min long stress test without error.
> 
> View attachment 2538312
> 
> 
> View attachment 2538313
> 
> 
> Dram: 1.43V
> IO and SA: 1.20V


Yo man, I'm running 10850K, G Skill 2x8GB 3600 Cl 14 Overclocked to 4200cl16 atm. I'm wondering how did u manage to overclock ur cpu to 5.1ghz, can you give me the settings in bios, vcore etc..?? I had bad luck overclocking. I have Z490 Aorus Master + Corsair H100i Pro XT 240MM Front mounted, Thanks.


----------



## zebra_hun

Lineage said:


> Yo man, I'm running 10850K, G Skill 2x8GB 3600 Cl 14 Overclocked to 4200cl16 atm. I'm wondering how did u manage to overclock ur cpu to 5.1ghz, can you give me the settings in bios, vcore etc..?? I had bad luck overclocking. I have Z490 Aorus Master + Corsair H100i Pro XT 240MM Front mounted, Thanks.


Aorus Master is a perfect board. U have to find your stable vcore under load. I'm now in work on mobil phone, i can't give u pics, but i posted here my 24/7 settings.
5100/[email protected]
Use in BIOS fixed vcore, fixed frequenz (x51), uncore right x45 and later go higher. By Gigabyte i think LLC7 is ultra extrem, or extrem, i can't remember, i use little vdrop. Me right in BIOS 1.25V Vcore. Dropped to 1.199V under P95 small fft AVX. Do not test 5100MHz with P95 small fft, i have got 6C water! Over 300W, it's extrem power.
On my pics are all data what u need. All energy saver functions are disabled. C states etc...
I hope, help u. Sorry, english isn't my main lang.


----------



## Lineage

zebra_hun said:


> Aorus Master is a perfect board. U have to find your stable vcore under load. I'm now in work on mobil phone, i can't give u pics, but i posted here my 24/7 settings.
> 5100/[email protected]
> Use in BIOS fixed vcore, fixed frequenz (x51), uncore right x45 and later go higher. By Gigabyte i think LLC7 is ultra extrem, or extrem, i can't remember, i use little vdrop. Me right in BIOS 1.25V Vcore. Dropped to 1.199V under P95 small fft AVX. Do not test 5100MHz with P95 small fft, i have got 6C water! Over 300W, it's extrem power.
> On my pics are all data what u need. All energy saver functions are disabled. C states etc...
> I hope, help u. Sorry, english isn't my main lang.


Okay bro thanks i'll try 5.1ghz oc. what do i start with bios vcore set to 1.3? or u start with 1.25V ?


----------



## zebra_hun

First, try to find a stable 5GHz. This is good, too. Idle voltage don't matter. Always check the load vcore. This showed hwinfo "current" and "minimum". Last line is whea error. If your vcore is low, it gives whea error, or bsod. If 5GHz done, start 5.1. Always check temperature! To start right Cinebench r23 30 min stability test. Not the best test, but right. I never say the p95 small fft good, but p95 passt, your system is stable. Thats crazy hot!


----------



## Pk1

Corsair LPX 4x8gb 4000mhz cl16, is the SA too high? The board on AUTO wants to crank 1.46v but I've manually lowered to 1.35v without issues. Should I bother trying to decrease it or is 1.35v acceptable?


----------



## The Pook

no sense running higher than you need, you shouldn't need anywhere near that for 4000. I'm at 1.29v for 4300.


----------



## zebra_hun

Pk1 said:


> View attachment 2540415
> 
> Corsair LPX 4x8gb 4000mhz cl16, is the SA too high? The board on AUTO wants to crank 1.46v but I've manually lowered to 1.35v without issues. Should I bother trying to decrease it or is 1.35v acceptable?


Try lower vcc sa. Don't forget Testmem5 or GSat or something like that to controll your ram stability.


----------



## Ichirou

Pk1 said:


> View attachment 2540415
> 
> Corsair LPX 4x8gb 4000mhz cl16, is the SA too high? The board on AUTO wants to crank 1.46v but I've manually lowered to 1.35v without issues. Should I bother trying to decrease it or is 1.35v acceptable?


Different CPUs and boards have different requirements, but you should try somewhere ~1.25V first and foremost.

I'm on 4,174 MHz and I only need like, 1.20-1.25V.


----------



## MrFox

Lineage said:


> Yo man, I'm running 10850K, G Skill 2x8GB 3600 Cl 14 Overclocked to 4200cl16 atm. I'm wondering how did u manage to overclock ur cpu to 5.1ghz, can you give me the settings in bios, vcore etc..?? I had bad luck overclocking. I have Z490 Aorus Master + Corsair H100i Pro XT 240MM Front mounted, Thanks.


Finding a good 10850K silicon sample is more difficult than 10900K/KF. I had one before that maxed out at 5.1GHz no matter how much voltage I fed it. It was just a dud CPU. I have one now with an SP84 rating that can handle 5.3GHz on all core. (SP84 is higher than most 10850K... seldom find them in the SP100+ range.) I run it at 5.1GHz all core in my work desktop because it doesn't have a robust cooling system like my benching rig.


----------



## zebra_hun

MrFox said:


> Finding a good 10850K silicon sample is more difficult than 10900K/KF. I had one before that maxed out at 5.1GHz no matter how much voltage I fed it. It was just a dud CPU. I have one now with an SP84 rating that can handle 5.3GHz on all core. (SP84 is higher than most 10850K... seldom find them in the SP100+ range.) I run it at 5.1GHz all core in my work desktop because it doesn't have a robust cooling system like my benching rig.


Sp number matter? Ive got sp63 10850, doing cbr23 5400MHz 10/20 without problem. 3dmarks benching 5500Mhz. Just sp63. I think, this number is ..., but i'm not a pro oc'er. Allcore 5400 needs 1.38V Vcore under load. I use extrem llc.


----------



## Ichirou

zebra_hun said:


> Sp number matter? Ive got sp63 10850, doing cbr23 5400MHz 10/20 without problem. 3dmarks benching 5500Mhz. Just sp63. I think, this number is ..., but i'm not a pro oc'er. Allcore 5400 needs 1.38V Vcore under load. I use extrem llc.
> View attachment 2540435
> 
> 
> View attachment 2540436


Yeah... At 1.45-1.48V, lol. Your LLC setting is just boosting it up when needed. But 1.38V is _not_ your true Vcore.


----------



## zebra_hun

Ichirou said:


> Yeah... At 1.45-1.48V, lol. Your LLC setting is just boosting it up when needed. But 1.38V is _not_ your true Vcore.


Cbr23 running. Under load is 1.385V. I've got a screen at 1.36V and 5400 allcore, but im not at home. Hwinfo show it.


----------



## Ichirou

zebra_hun said:


> Cbr23 running. Under load is 1.385V. I've got a screen at 1.36V and 5400 allcore, but im not at home. Hwinfo show it.
> View attachment 2540437


That's _minimum_ Vcore. Not maximum. It's still using up to 1.44V as needed (according to that screenshot).


----------



## zebra_hun

Ichirou said:


> That's _minimum_ Vcore. Not maximum. It's still using up to 1.44V as needed (according to that screenshot).


For me, the minimum matters, I don’t care about the idle value. Under load, what is the minimum voltage where the system is stable, only that matters.
This is my opinion, it may not be correct.


----------



## Pk1

Ichirou said:


> Different CPUs and boards have different requirements, but you should try somewhere ~1.25V first and foremost.
> 
> I'm on 4,174 MHz and I only need like, 1.20-1.25V.


OK I've lowered it down and she posted just fine. I'm now running some TestMem to see if there are any issues. I thought that 1.35v seemed high but it was working so I didn't want to fiddle too much  Thank you!


----------



## MrFox

zebra_hun said:


> Sp number matter? Ive got sp63 10850, doing cbr23 5400MHz 10/20 without problem. 3dmarks benching 5500Mhz. Just sp63. I think, this number is ..., but i'm not a pro oc'er. Allcore 5400 needs 1.38V Vcore under load. I use extrem llc.
> View attachment 2540435
> 
> 
> View attachment 2540436


There is a bit of speculation whether it matters or not. The SP rating is an ASIC score and as a general rule the higher the silicon quality, the less voltage it requires. So, to that extent it does matter. All of the "golden samples" Intel shipped are very high SP rating. I would say yes, it does matter to an extent, but I am really into overclocking and I will just dump more voltage on the CPU to push it further. If it kills it, then I will get another CPU. Not the end of the world to have to replace a CPU that got torn up by high voltage, but the financial part is somewhat painful. If you are not running a fancy water cooling system or trying to do any kind of crazy overclocking on air cooling, then it would matter more because of thermal management concerns.

My 10900KF is SP65 and I bench it at 5.5GHz with 1.575V on chilled water. 

I had a 10900K SP103 that ran as well as the SP65 10900KF in terms of benching and it required A LOT less voltage. My SP84 10850K requires about 0.050V-0.075V less than the 10900KF SP65 at the same clock speed.


----------



## zebra_hun

MrFox said:


> There is a bit of speculation whether it matters or not. The SP rating is an ASIC score and as a general rule the higher the silicon quality, the less voltage it requires. So, to that extent it does matter. All of the "golden samples" Intel shipped are very high SP rating. I would say yes, it does matter to an extent, but I am really into overclocking and I will just dump more voltage on the CPU to push it further. If it kills it, then I will get another CPU. Not the end of the world to have to replace a CPU that got torn up by high voltage, but the financial part is somewhat painful. If you are not running a fancy water cooling system or trying to do any kind of crazy overclocking on air cooling, then it would matter more because of thermal management concerns.
> 
> My 10900KF is SP65 and I bench it at 5.5GHz with 1.575V on chilled water.
> 
> I had a 10900K SP103 that ran as well as the SP65 10900KF in terms of benching and it required A LOT less voltage. My SP84 10850K requires about 0.050V-0.075V less than the 10900KF SP65 at the same clock speed.


Maybe I’m lucky because there’s constant cold water since the cooling radiators are under me in the wine cellar. 6 Celsius is there. Maybe this is a great help to me to keep the cpu and vga temperatures low. 1.5V is the maximum I've dared to give to the cpu so far, I don't know what the maximum is, which is not damaging. These short Benchmarks don’t think they would be a problem, by 24/7 I don’t use it that way.


----------



## Ichirou

MrFox said:


> There is a bit of speculation whether it matters or not. The SP rating is an ASIC score and as a general rule the higher the silicon quality, the less voltage it requires. So, to that extent it does matter. All of the "golden samples" Intel shipped are very high SP rating. I would say yes, it does matter to an extent, but I am really into overclocking and I will just dump more voltage on the CPU to push it further. If it kills it, then I will get another CPU. Not the end of the world to have to replace a CPU that got torn up by high voltage, but the financial part is somewhat painful. If you are not running a fancy water cooling system or trying to do any kind of crazy overclocking on air cooling, then it would matter more because of thermal management concerns.
> 
> My 10900KF is SP65 and I bench it at 5.5GHz with 1.575V on chilled water.
> 
> I had a 10900K SP103 that ran as well as the SP65 10900KF in terms of benching and it required A LOT less voltage. My SP84 10850K requires about 0.050V-0.075V less than the 10900KF SP65 at the same clock speed.


I've always wondered about degradation on high voltages with relation to actual die temperatures.

Obviously, you ideally don't want to push beyond 1.40V daily, but scientifically speaking, how does degradation work if you were to keep temperatures extremely low even above that voltage?

Say for example, what is the difference between a constant 1.50V at 80C and a constant 1.50V at 50C?


----------



## MrFox

zebra_hun said:


> Maybe I’m lucky because there’s constant cold water since the cooling radiators are under me in the wine cellar. 6 Celsius is there. Maybe this is a great help to me to keep the cpu and vga temperatures low. 1.5V is the maximum I've dared to give to the cpu so far, I don't know what the maximum is, which is not damaging. These short Benchmarks don’t think they would be a problem, by 24/7 I don’t use it that way.


Yes, that will make a HUGE difference. If the water were say 24-26°C or warmer then you would probably encounter some instability. From my limited experience it seems like not many people with 10850K are able to run it much higher than 5.0-5.2GHz on all cores unless they resort to extraordinary cooling measures or go sub-zero.


Ichirou said:


> I've always wondered about degradation on high voltages with relation to actual die temperatures.
> 
> Obviously, you ideally don't want to push beyond 1.40V daily, but scientifically speaking, how does degradation work if you were to keep temperatures extremely low even above that voltage?
> 
> Say for example, what is the difference between a constant 1.50V at 80C and a constant 1.50V at 50C?


I don't know what evidence there is to support the idea that high voltage causes less degradation at lower temperatures, but I do believe that to be true. It certainly influences behavior and stability. High temperatures and high voltage are definitely not good. At a certain point it becomes a vicious circle. The hotter the CPU gets, the more voltage it needs to maintain stability. So, if you give it more voltage, that makes it hotter. Chilled water is not extreme cooling, but it really helps tremendously. Using chilled water, I can reach stable and benchable clock speeds on my CPU and GPU that I am unable to reach using ordinary water cooling. Using a portable air conditioner also make a massive difference, for both air and water cooled systems. If you are pumping high velocity freezing cold air through the radiator (air or water) and chilling everything inside of the chassis it really brings the temperatures down quickly. And, it cools everything else (memory, VRMs, etc.) nicely at the same time.

I have used a 10,000 BTU portable air conditioner for benching overclocked laptops for many years. It works extremely well. My old Alienwares with moble Extreme CPUs and Clevos with desktop K and X processors were overclocked like crazy with the bottom cover removed sitting directly on the air conditioner. They would actually get frost on them sometimes because the air was below freezing blowing on the inside of the laptop full blast. It was pretty stinking awesome.

Edit: Dug this up from my YouTube channel, LOL. I uploaded it in 2012.


----------



## zebra_hun

Ichirou said:


> I've always wondered about degradation on high voltages with relation to actual die temperatures.
> 
> Obviously, you ideally don't want to push beyond 1.40V daily, but scientifically speaking, how does degradation work if you were to keep temperatures extremely low even above that voltage?
> 
> Say for example, what is the difference between a constant 1.50V at 80C and a constant 1.50V at 50C?


I think the continuous Amper determines the damage. There is no high current in the idle state. There is no high voltage under load, so no high ampere can develop. (LLC and VDrop) Therefore, i check the minimum (and current) Vcore value.
I personally don’t like the extreme CPU overclock. A good memory oc gives a lot more.
If we’re already in the DDR4 RAM OC topics, allow me a measurement of my own. It is very instructive.
I ran the SotTR Benchmark on several settings. (My GSkill original XMP 3200CL14, and my 4266MHz CL16 Profil) Here I think it is clear that ram oc gives a lot more than cpu oc. 1080p lowest preset, don't matter vga. (CPU Game values)
Unfortunately I don't have the photos anymore, I retaliated, this graph is left, but maybe it fits the theme.
Uh, forgot, happy new year to all


----------



## nikolaus85

happy 2022 guys. This is my result on Sottr with same preset you can see on Kingfaris.net (i7 10700k 5.0/4.7, ram 4400 c16 17 17), i think is not bad at all:


----------



## ilax92

4400mhz 16-16-16-34 @1.55v, 34.8ns latency
vccio/vccsa 1.30v

Temps are good! 46c under load with some active cooling (92mm noctua). Testing stability with lower voltages, I think it can do 1.53v.

F4-4000C16D-16GTRSA
Stock XMP 4000 16-16-16-36 @1.4v

Also does
4000mhz 14-14-14-28 @1.53v, 33.8ns latency
4200mhz 16-16-16-32 @1.46v 34.5ns latency


----------



## Togaidragon

Happy new year everyone!

I saw someone earlier say that for gaming I should stick to gear 1(11th gen i9) which is 3733 for me. So I'm working on tightening timings as much as I can with that frequency.

This is what I'm getting, which doesn't look great to me. I'm running 4x8 4400c16 sticks(XMP is not stable)

I just can't seem to get my latency as low as most people here, which seems to be mid 30's. Also my read speed seems low but I figure thats part of being at 3733.
I just enabled RTL training and it went from 71 down to 58 so that was good, I think I saw a 4ns reduction from that. But I don't really understand how the iol training works, and it doesn't show up on my Timing configurator and in bios from what I can tell they are all set to 0/auto

also i set txp and ppd to 4/0 i think that is what gave me the 4ns drop actually 

Any tips would be appreciated! Thanks


----------



## Ichirou

Togaidragon said:


> Happy new year everyone!
> 
> I saw someone earlier say that for gaming I should stick to gear 1(11th gen i9) which is 3733 for me. So I'm working on tightening timings as much as I can with that frequency.
> 
> This is what I'm getting, which doesn't look great to me. I'm running 4x8 4400c16 sticks(XMP is not stable)
> 
> I just can't seem to get my latency as low as most people here, which seems to be mid 30's. Also my read speed seems low but I figure thats part of being at 3733.
> I just enabled RTL training and it went from 71 down to 58 so that was good, I think I saw a 4ns reduction from that. But I don't really understand how the iol training works, and it doesn't show up on my Timing configurator and in bios from what I can tell they are all set to 0/auto
> 
> also i set txp and ppd to 4/0 i think that is what gave me the 4ns drop actually
> 
> Any tips would be appreciated! Thanks
> 
> View attachment 2540559


It's probably just not high enough frequency to reach the 30 ns range.


----------



## Togaidragon

Ichirou said:


> It's probably just not high enough frequency to reach the 30 ns range.


Okay I can get 4400 stable at c19 do you think it's worth it to do that then tighten timings there instead of doing 3733 gear 1?


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> Okay I can get 4400 stable at c19 do you think it's worth it to do that then tighten timings there instead of doing 3733 gear 1?


You said most people here are mid 30ns because they are on different platforms. z390, z490 etc. You should be able to get high 30ns, raising cache will help some with latency.

To get mid 30s on z590 takes 4000c13. You should be able to get 38 to 39ns if your OS is clean with 3733c14. If you can run cache at 4400-4500.

Also some of your subtiming can still go lower.

This thread might get more feedback since 11th gen focus Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


----------



## LionAlonso

Togaidragon said:


> Okay I can get 4400 stable at c19 do you think it's worth it to do that then tighten timings there instead of doing 3733 gear 1?


If you dont get out of the 40s or low 50s territory probably yes.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> You said most people here are mid 30ns because they are on different platforms. z390, z490 etc. You should be able to get high 30ns, raising cache will help some with latency.
> 
> To get mid 30s on z590 takes 4000c13. You should be able to get 38 to 39ns if your OS is clean with 3733c14. If you can run cache at 4400-4500.
> 
> Also some of your subtiming can still go lower.
> 
> This thread might get more feedback since 11th gen focus Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


Man, I didn't even notice that his cache clock is set to 29x. According to the AIDA64 screenshot, anyway. Not sure if it's accurate or not.


Togaidragon said:


> Okay I can get 4400 stable at c19 do you think it's worth it to do that then tighten timings there instead of doing 3733 gear 1?


What's the highest voltage you've tested so far?


----------



## Blameless

Ichirou said:


> Say for example, what is the difference between a constant 1.50V at 80C and a constant 1.50V at 50C?


All other things being equal, eletromigration and other reactions will very roughly double in rate every 10C. So a part run at 50C could be expected to last 5-10 times as long as one at 80C.

However, there are many other factors in play and may other causes of failure than electromigration or temperature dependent chemical reactions.

Current (load) is a huge deal. A part at 1.5v and 100C is going to last orders of magnitude longer at idle than one that has a continual 200A rammed through it at 1.3v and 60C. This is why idle voltages are no big deal, except at extreme values. No current, no wear.

Likewise, thermal cycling is probably going to kill more parts than any static load. A constant 80C won't break solder balls, vias, or propagate cracks through solder TIM, going from 20-80C hundreds of times a day for years is another matter.


----------



## Ichirou

Blameless said:


> All other things being equal, eletromigration and other reactions will very roughly double in rate every 10C. So a part run at 50C could be expected to last 5-10 times as long as one at 80C.
> 
> However, there are many other factors in play and may other causes of failure than electromigration or temperature dependent chemical reactions.
> 
> Current (load) is a huge deal. A part at 1.5v and 100C is going to last orders of magnitude longer at idle than one that has a continual 200A rammed through it at 1.3v and 60C. This is why idle voltages are no big deal, except at extreme values. No current, no wear.
> 
> Likewise, thermal cycling is probably going to kill more parts than any static load. A constant 80C won't break solder balls, vias, or propagate cracks through solder TIM, going from 20-80C hundreds of times a day for years is another matter.


So the TL;DR is: The voltage that's set (even a higher than normal one) isn't nearly as harmful as how volatile the temperature and load is?
Is that one reason why many people immediately lock in max LLC for most CPUs? (E.g. LLC 7 for ASUS boards)

Also, do you think you could answer my question here? Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


----------



## Togaidragon

Ichirou said:


> Man, I didn't even notice that his cache clock is set to 29x. According to the AIDA64 screenshot, anyway. Not sure if it's accurate or not.
> 
> What's the highest voltage you've tested so far?


I've generally only gone as high as 1.55 on dram and 1.5 mem io / 1.4 sa

I did do 1.6 dram at one point but it was getting into mid 40s and climbing on testmem so I stopped and pulled it down

Usually I have cache at 43 but can do 44 I'm not sure why it says 29


----------



## Ichirou

Togaidragon said:


> I've generally only gone as high as 1.55 on dram and 1.5 mem io / 1.4 sa
> 
> I did do 1.6 dram at one point but it was getting into mid 40s and climbing on testmem so I stopped and pulled it down
> 
> Usually I have cache at 43 but can do 44 I'm not sure why it says 29


Oof, 1.50V VCCIO? Isn't that a bit excessive? Trying to kill the IMC or something, lol?

Try 1.60V again with a fan, and push cache as much as you can.


----------



## Blameless

Ichirou said:


> So the TL;DR is: The voltage that's set (even a higher than normal one) isn't nearly as harmful as how volatile the temperature and load is?
> Is that one reason why many people immediately lock in max LLC for most CPUs? (E.g. LLC 7 for ASUS boards)


It's not that voltage isn't harmful--it most certainly can be, and will reduce lifespan exponentially past a certain point--it's that _no parameter exists in a vacuum_. There is a current, voltage, temperature trinity...reduce one and you can increase the other two. Idle is perforce low current, and usually implies a relatively low temperature...voltage that a chip could idle at for ten years could potentially kill it in ten seconds at maximum load, as an extreme, but plausible, example.

Reducing vdroop can be dangerous, depending on the specific scenario and the board being used. It's possible to deliver extremely high transient voltage, if droop is not sufficient. High-end boards usually have correspondingly high-end voltage regulation and can run a much reduced loadline than spec without issues, but no VRM's reaction to load changes is instantaneous.



Ichirou said:


> Also, do you think you could answer my question here? Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


I'd almost always use the weaker LLC setting for a daily setup. You aren't hurting anything by having idle voltage 40mV (or a hundred) higher and unless it's a crazy good board running max switching frequency (which is less efficient regardless), jitter and transients are almost certainly worse at the stronger LLC setting.

Stronger LLC settings are mostly for really pushing clocks so that minimum voltage under heavy loads can be clamped to a reasonable range without having to run low-to-moderate loads past a given voltage threshold, or when needed voltage simply _cannot_ be reached without it. IIRC, the spec loadline for LGA-1700 is something like two milliohm. Running without LLC while trying for a record setting bench that's going to pull 300A would have so much droop that you need dangerous near idle voltages and may not even be able to get the voltage the bench needs at the maximum set value the board supports...that's where heavy LLC comes in.

In general, you aren't helping anything by running a stronger LLC than you need.


----------



## Ichirou

Blameless said:


> It's not that voltage isn't harmful--it most certainly can be, and will reduce lifespan exponentially past a certain point--it's that _no parameter exists in a vacuum_. There is a current, voltage, temperature trinity...reduce one and you can increase the other two. Idle is perforce low current, and usually implies a relatively low temperature...voltage that a chip could idle at for ten years could potentially kill it in ten seconds at maximum load, as an extreme, but plausible, example.
> 
> Reducing vdroop can be dangerous, depending on the specific scenario and the board being used. It's possible to deliver extremely high transient voltage, if droop is not sufficient. High-end boards usually have correspondingly high-end voltage regulation and can run a much reduced loadline than spec without issues, but no VRM's reaction to load changes is instantaneous.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd almost always use the weaker LLC setting for a daily setup. You aren't hurting anything by having idle voltage 40mV (or a hundred) higher and unless it's a crazy good board running max switching frequency (which is less efficient regardless), jitter and transients are almost certainly worse at the stronger LLC setting.
> 
> Stronger LLC settings are mostly for really pushing clocks so that minimum voltage under heavy loads can be clamped to a reasonable range without having to run low-to-moderate loads past a given voltage threshold, or when needed voltage simply _cannot_ be reached without it. IIRC, the spec loadline for LGA-1700 is something like two milliohm. Running without LLC while trying for a record setting bench that's going to pull 300A would have so much droop that you need dangerous near idle voltages and may not even be able to get the voltage the bench needs at the maximum set value the board supports...that's where heavy LLC comes in.
> 
> In general, you aren't helping anything by running a stronger LLC than you need.


Thank you, you've clarified a lot for me. Still don't understand it all 100%, but I have the gist of it, I think.
Basically, Current (Load) x Voltage x Temperature all correlate with each other, and it's necessary to strike a balance between them.
You can lessen the influence of each of them accordingly to give more headroom for the rest, but in general you want to keep everything low.

And as for LLC, it's generally better to run it as low as you can, raising base Vcore as necessary to reach stability (to a certain extent).
Because the Current is low while the PC isn't on load, even if you push a higher Vcore, it's not really going to affect much in terms of degradation, while resulting in more overall stability. (That relates to the point you made before about how a constant voltage is better than a rapidly switching one.)

So, should I try to lower LLC to 5 (or even lower) and raise Vcore accordingly? Or is it not really necessary for that older generation chip?
And what do you think is a reasonable LLC to start fiddling around with for a 12900k?


----------



## Blameless

Ichirou said:


> So, should I try to lower LLC to 5 (or even lower) and raise Vcore accordingly? Or is it not really necessary for that older generation chip?
> And what do you think is a reasonable LLC to start fiddling around with for a 12900k?


Honestly, it's rarely worth fussing over for normal 24/7 voltages. Even if you used LLC1, idle voltages wouldn't be high enough to matter. And, unless your board is total garbage, even if you used LLC7 (or 8, which is usually no loadline at all on ASUS boards) transient performance probably wouldn't be harmed enough to really matter.

Basically, if the voltage is low enough that you can reasonably 24/7 it on high-end water, or less, you can make almost any LLC setting work within margin of error on a good board. If you've already tested LLC6, then their is little reason not to keep using LLC6.

If you want to play it safe, just in case, use one of the settings in the middle (4-5 on an ASUS). That's also where I'd start with almost any new board...unless it's a really cheap board, then I'd just leave it on the weakest LLC setting, or turn off LLC entirely.


----------



## Ichirou

Blameless said:


> Honestly, it's rarely worth fussing over for normal 24/7 voltages. Even if you used LLC1, idle voltages wouldn't be high enough to matter. And, unless your board is total garbage, even if you used LLC7 (or 8, which is usually no loadline at all on ASUS boards) transient performance probably wouldn't be harmed enough to really matter.
> 
> Basically, if the voltage is low enough that you can reasonably 24/7 it on high-end water, or less, you can make almost any LLC setting work within margin of error on a good board. If you've already tested LLC6, then their is little reason not to keep using LLC6.
> 
> If you want to play it safe, just in case, use one of the settings in the middle (4-5 on an ASUS). That's also where I'd start with almost any new board...unless it's a really cheap board, then I'd just leave it on the weakest LLC setting, or turn off LLC entirely.


On the topic of Intel spec maximum safe idle voltages, where would I gather that information? Is it the VID values shown for each core in the ASUS BIOS under the AI section (in the 12900k's case, those would be stated for 52x frequency)? Is it right to set Adaptive Vcore to roughly the worst VID, and then test to find the lowest LLC value that stabilizes it?


----------



## Togaidragon

Ichirou said:


> Oof, 1.50V VCCIO? Isn't that a bit excessive? Trying to kill the IMC or something, lol?
> 
> Try 1.60V again with a fan, and push cache as much as you can.


On auto my mobo sets mem vccio to 1.49

This is what it looks like @ 4400c19 with tightened timings. 1.55 Dram, 1.5 mem io, 1.4 SA, 4436 cache for some reason it keeps dipping to 4000 even though i have min and max cache set the same


----------



## Ichirou

Togaidragon said:


> On auto my mobo sets mem vccio to 1.49
> 
> This is what it looks like @ 4400c19 with tightened timings. 1.55 Dram, 1.5 mem io, 1.4 SA, 4436 cache for some reason it keeps dipping to 4000 even though i have min and max cache set the same
> 
> View attachment 2540639


You really don't need VCCIO at 1.50V. Try to reduce it.


----------



## Togaidragon

Ichirou said:


> You really don't need VCCIO at 1.50V. Try to reduce it.


Roger ill see what i can do


----------



## Togaidragon

So with some help in the 11 series thread this is what I'm looking at now.
I lowered dram voltage and also mem IO to 1.4
I'm finally very happy with this
Thanks for the help everyone


----------



## Togaidragon

oops


----------



## Ichirou

Togaidragon said:


> So with some help in the 11 series thread this is what I'm looking at now.
> I lowered dram voltage and also mem IO to 1.4
> I'm finally very happy with this
> Thanks for the help everyone
> View attachment 2540692


You can continue to try to pull SA/IO lower if you want. Only benefits to be had, if you have the patience for it.


----------



## Pk1

Togaidragon said:


> So with some help in the 11 series thread this is what I'm looking at now.
> I lowered dram voltage and also mem IO to 1.4
> I'm finally very happy with this
> Thanks for the help everyone
> View attachment 2540692


Very Nice looking indeed! I'm curious, I have 4x8gb 4000mhz 16-16-16-36 and my latency is at 43.6ns. What timings should I focus on to reduce the latency? I would like to be below 40ns if possible.


----------



## Ichirou

Pk1 said:


> Very Nice looking indeed! I'm curious, I have 4x8gb 4000mhz 16-16-16-36 and my latency is at 43.6ns. What timings should I focus on to reduce the latency? I would like to be below 40ns if possible.


Secondaries, and RTL/IOLs. Also, raise cache clock.


----------



## MrFox

Ichirou said:


> On the topic of Intel spec maximum safe idle voltages, where would I gather that information? Is it the VID values shown for each core in the ASUS BIOS under the AI section (in the 12900k's case, those would be stated for 52x frequency)? Is it right to set Adaptive Vcore to roughly the worst VID, and then test to find the lowest LLC value that stabilizes it?


Core Voltage and VID are not the same thing. If my understanding is correct, VID is the maximum voltage value the motherboard is making available to the CPU cores and Core Voltage is the actual value being used by or applied to the CPU cores. Core Voltage is generally what is being adjusted through BIOS settings. VID can be higher than Core Voltage, and generally is. I believe the opposite cannot be true. If SVID is disabled in the BIOS, neither the VID nor CPU Package Power will be measured by sensors.


----------



## 7empe

MrFox said:


> Core Voltage and VID are not the same thing. If my understanding is correct, VID is the maximum voltage value the motherboard is making available to the CPU cores and Core Voltage is the actual value being used by or applied to the CPU cores. Core Voltage is generally what is being adjusted through BIOS settings. VID can be higher than Core Voltage, and generally is. I believe the opposite cannot be true. If SVID is disabled in the BIOS, neither the VID nor CPU Package Power will be measured by sensors.


VID is pre-programmed table of voltages within CPU during post manufacturing tests. Motherboard have no clue about VID. VID point depends on frequency, but it can scale with temperature and base clock based on the scaling curves. VID is a voltage CPU asks for, Vcore is a voltage it gets from the motherboard... but... Vcore, depending where the readout occurs (socket or die), can be much different from the VID and moreover VID are always far above the limit - therefore there is plenty room for undervolting.

Vcore set in the BIOS can and in most cases will be different during CPU load due to voltage droop. Lower the Load Line Calibration level, higher the vdroop is. Higher the LLC, lower the vdroop and therefore higher voltage applied to the die under load = more heat.

If VID table is disabled, then yes - there is no VID readout and therefore CPU Package Power cannot be measued, but the workaround is to multiply the CPU Current (amps) with the VCore (volts) and you can get really reliable measurement of the CPU power.

In general, I suggest to pick the mid LLC and then steer the Vcore to find out the voltage stability points (under load!) for the frequency you're intrested in. This way you will know exactly the voltage levels per frequency point, which your CPU needs to remain stable.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Hi,

i9-9900k running at stock
Maximus XI Hero

Bought 2x16Gb kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA 16-16-16-36 1.4v kit in hope to have painless 4000Mhz ram. Is anything but.

Previously I had 4x8Gb 3600 CL15 kit which ran at 4000 but with 1.45v.

Problem is, this new doesn't even post at 3900 17-17-17-40 1.5v. Once I increased VCCSA to 1.3 it posted at 3900 but not at 4000. 

Am I missing something I did I just get a dud?


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> Hi,
> 
> i9-9900k running at stock
> Maximus XI Hero
> 
> Bought 2x16Gb kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA 16-16-16-36 1.4v kit in hope to have painless 4000Mhz ram. Is anything but.
> 
> Previously I had 4x8Gb 3600 CL15 kit which ran at 4000 but with 1.45v.
> 
> Problem is, this new doesn't even post at 3900 17-17-17-40 1.5v. Once I increased VCCSA to 1.3 it posted at 3900 but not at 4000.
> 
> Am I missing something I did I just get a dud?


So... You swapped out your kit for another kit that's... worse?
I'd just refund it at that point and keep your old kit.


----------



## jeiselramos

SimplyQQ said:


> Hi,
> 
> i9-9900k running at stock
> Maximus XI Hero
> 
> Bought 2x16Gb kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA 16-16-16-36 1.4v kit in hope to have painless 4000Mhz ram. Is anything but.
> 
> Previously I had 4x8Gb 3600 CL15 kit which ran at 4000 but with 1.45v.
> 
> Problem is, this new doesn't even post at 3900 17-17-17-40 1.5v. Once I increased VCCSA to 1.3 it posted at 3900 but not at 4000.
> 
> Am I missing something I did I just get a dud?


Z390 Asus are t-topology, works better with 4dimm

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

SimplyQQ said:


> Hi,
> 
> i9-9900k running at stock
> Maximus XI Hero
> 
> Bought 2x16Gb kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA 16-16-16-36 1.4v kit in hope to have painless 4000Mhz ram. Is anything but.
> 
> Previously I had 4x8Gb 3600 CL15 kit which ran at 4000 but with 1.45v.
> 
> Problem is, this new doesn't even post at 3900 17-17-17-40 1.5v. Once I increased VCCSA to 1.3 it posted at 3900 but not at 4000.
> 
> Am I missing something I did I just get a dud?


Bought the wrong memory for you mb. You want 4x8 not 2x16.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Could you guys please explain? I bought these to have two sticks so as to have lower temps and clearing for cpu cooler. 

But yeah, I still can return it.

I'm just curious now, it posts @ 3800 with 16-16-16-36 1.4 but nothing I throw at it past that makes it post. What's the issue here, am I missing me? I'd just like to know


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> So... You swapped out your kit for another kit that's... worse?
> I'd just refund it at that point and keep your old kit.


why is it worse?


----------



## jeiselramos

SimplyQQ said:


> Could you guys please explain? I bought these to have two sticks so as to have lower temps and clearing for cpu cooler.
> 
> But yeah, I still can return it.
> 
> I'm just curious now, it posts @ 3800 with 16-16-16-36 1.4 but nothing I throw at it past that makes it post. What's the issue here, am I missing me? I'd just like to know


There's 2 types of mb when they've 4 slot.
T-topology and Daisy Chain
Daisy Chain clock higher with 2 dimm because traces are optimized for higher clock with only 2 dimm and with 4 dimm doesn't clock very well
T-topology is the inverse, traces are optimized for clock better with 4 dimm and garbage with 2.

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

SimplyQQ said:


> Hi,
> 
> i9-9900k running at stock
> Maximus XI Hero
> 
> Bought 2x16Gb kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA 16-16-16-36 1.4v kit in hope to have painless 4000Mhz ram. Is anything but.
> 
> Previously I had 4x8Gb 3600 CL15 kit which ran at 4000 but with 1.45v.
> 
> Problem is, this new doesn't even post at 3900 17-17-17-40 1.5v. Once I increased VCCSA to 1.3 it posted at 3900 but not at 4000.
> 
> Am I missing something I did I just get a dud?


2x16 = 32 GB, 4,000 MHz @ CL16 => fails
vs
4x8 = 32 GB, 4,000 MHz @ CL15 => working

First is not only slower in CL but also doesn't work. Might as well just go back.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> 2x16 = 32 GB, 4,000 MHz @ CL16 => fails
> vs
> 4x8 = 32 GB, 4,000 MHz @ CL15 => working
> 
> First is not only slower in CL but also doesn't work. Might as well just go back.


it's stable cl15 at 3600, at 4000 i wasn't able to get it stable at cl17.


----------



## bscool

SimplyQQ said:


> it's stable cl15 at 3600, at 4000 i wasn't able to get it stable at cl17.


You probably wont get much more than 3600 out of DR on z390 Hero. Even on z390 Apex 4000c16 was doing good.

I have both board and have tested so that what I have seen. Hero with good IMC and 4x8 can do 4266-4400.


----------



## SimplyQQ

bscool said:


> You probably wont get much more than 3600 out of DR on z390 Hero. Even on z390 Apex 4000c16 was doing good.
> 
> I have both board and have tested so that what I have seen. Hero with good IMC and 4x8 can do 4266-4400.


ok so I should go back to my 4x8 set. Is it possible to get [email protected] running? i have 4x of 15-15-15-36 1.35, but it wasn't a kit, rather two 2x8 kits.


----------



## bscool

SimplyQQ said:


> ok so I should go back to my 4x8 set. Is it possible to get [email protected] running? i have 4x of 15-15-15-36 1.35, but it wasn't a kit, rather two 2x8 kits.


Yeah if you want to clock higher. No way will you get much past 3600 with 2x16. Maybe 3866 if lucky?

4x8 should do 4133c16-16-16 easy if you have decent imc and mem. If weak IMC and mem 4133c17-17-17-37. sa/io in the 1.3 to 1.35 range dram 1.5 range to start. 

Subtiming will be what makes the difference. Tuned subs should get you in the 36 to 38ns range and 60,000+ RWC range.


----------



## SimplyQQ

I just want 4000 and at least c17. That's all I want.


----------



## bscool

SimplyQQ said:


> I just want 4000 and at least c17. That's all I want.


That should be easy on 4x8 if you have good sticks.

What memory kits are the 2x8?

Edit if the gskill 3600c15 those are very good bins and should do 4000c17 easy.


----------



## SimplyQQ

bscool said:


> That should be easy on 4x8 if you have good sticks.
> 
> What memory kits are the 2x8?
> 
> Edit if the gskill 3600c15 those are very good bins and should do 4000c17 easy.


Yeah, they are 15-15-15-36 1.35 kits.

And I'm back to them.

You're right, 17-17-17-37 @ 4000 @ 1.45v runs fine.

However, I can't get 16-16-16-36 to work. Errors out minutes into the test, even at 1.5v. Do you have any ideas on how to make it work?


----------



## bscool

SimplyQQ said:


> Yeah, they are 15-15-15-36 1.35 kits.
> 
> And I'm back to them.
> 
> You're right, 17-17-17-37 @ 4000 @ 1.45v runs fine.
> 
> However, I can't get 16-16-16-36 to work. Errors out minutes into the test, even at 1.5v. Do you have any ideas on how to make it work?


What bios are you using? 0602 worked best for me. It is old but one of the best for 4x8

Also set io and sa voltages to 1.35 as starting point.

Might be easier to get [email protected] working or try it anyway.


----------



## SimplyQQ

bscool said:


> What bios are you using? 0602 worked best for me. It is old but one of the best for 4x8
> 
> Also set io and sa voltages to 1.35 as starting point.
> 
> Might be easier to get [email protected] working or try it anyway.


what's interesting [email protected] works fine even at 1.35v, but i can't for the sake of it get it to work at cl16  anything else to be done?


----------



## bscool

SimplyQQ said:


> what's interesting [email protected] works fine even at 1.35v, but i can't for the sake of it get it to work at cl16  anything else to be done?


There are many things that can be done. I told a few things to try and you didnt say anything about trying them or what you have set, so it sounds like you are in over your head.

Bios version matters. Some bios version work better than others or wont boot certain settings. Most of the later bioses are not good.

It is not like running c16 vs c17 will really matter if you do not set any subtimings.

Read thru this if you want more performance and ideas on how to get 4000c16 working









MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## SoloCamo

Hello all,

Running T-Force Vulcan 3600mhz 32gb kit (2x 16)









Amazon.com: TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 3600MHz (PC4-28800) CL18 Desktop Memory Module Ram TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 - Red : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry


Buy TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 3600MHz (PC4-28800) CL18 Desktop Memory Module Ram TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 - Red: Chukka - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





I picked them up unfortunately when ram prices were much higher otherwise I would have went for a more ideal b-die kit. That said, I recently passed an overnight of memtest at 3866 cl18-22-22-42 (yes timings are very loose but this matches the stock 3600mhz xmp setting) and am now running 4000mhz at the same timings but with 1.45v.

My case has excellent cooling and the memory is right next to a NH-D15 with a 230mm exhaust fan at the top of the case above the memory as well.

*So to get the point**

Is 1.45v safe long term? So far so good but I will do an overnight test to confirm stability. Also, for these basic memory sticks - did I get lucky If I'm able to hold 4000mhz cl18 or have otheres reported similar? I know they are common due to the price point but not exactly known for performance.


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Running T-Force Vulcan 3600mhz 32gb kit (2x 16)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 3600MHz (PC4-28800) CL18 Desktop Memory Module Ram TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 - Red : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry
> 
> 
> Buy TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 3600MHz (PC4-28800) CL18 Desktop Memory Module Ram TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 - Red: Chukka - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I picked them up unfortunately when ram prices were much higher otherwise I would have went for a more ideal b-die kit. That said, I recently passed an overnight of memtest at 3866 cl18-22-22-42 (yes timings are very loose but this matches the stock 3600mhz xmp setting) and am now running 4000mhz at the same timings but with 1.45v.
> 
> My case has excellent cooling and the memory is right next to a NH-D15 with a 230mm exhaust fan at the top of the case above the memory as well.
> 
> *So to get the point**
> 
> Is 1.45v safe long term? So far so good but I will do an overnight test to confirm stability. Also, for these basic memory sticks - did I get lucky If I'm able to hold 4000mhz cl18 or have otheres reported similar? I know they are common due to the price point but not exactly known for performance.


What die is it? Check Thaiphoon Burner.


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> What die is it? Check Thaiphoon Burner.


See below. (thanks)

Also, seemingly able to push it to 4133 at the same timings as the 3600mhz xmp listed below and bench scores keep improving. Still at 1.45 (well set to 1.44 but runs closer to 1.45) Is there a better free memory tester outside of hours of Memtest 86?

Running a 10900 non k on a Z590 board. Are the Z590's just better at handling mem oc's?


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> See below. (thanks)
> 
> Also, seemingly able to push it to 4133 at the same timings as the 3600mhz xmp listed below and bench scores keep improving. Still at 1.45 (well set to 1.44 but runs closer to 1.45) Is there a better free memory tester outside of hours of Memtest 86?
> 
> Running a 10900 non k on a Z590 board. Are the Z590's just better at handling mem oc's?
> 
> View attachment 2541713


That's most likely Hynix CJR. It'll be fine at 1.45V.
Z590 is better than Z490.


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> That's most likely Hynix CJR. It'll be fine at 1.45V.
> Z590 is better than Z490.


Thanks. So assuming an overnight run of memtest 86 shows no errors, are my speeds pretty typical for this type of kit?

Went from 3600 18-22-22-42 to 4133 at the same timings. Just bumped to 1.45v from 1.35v. If the charts are accurate this puts me at slightly better latency than the typical stock 3200 cl14 kits but my advantage being way higher bandwidth.


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> Thanks. So assuming an overnight run of memtest 86 shows no errors, are my speeds pretty typical for this type of kit?
> 
> Went from 3600 18-22-22-42 to 4133 at the same timings. Just bumped to 1.45v from 1.35v. If the charts are accurate this puts me at slightly better latency than the typical stock 3200 cl14 kits but my advantage being way higher bandwidth.


You mean timings? Sure, they're pretty typical for generic 4,000 MHz RAM.
But due to the nature of tRCD/tRP and tRAS, it'll still be a bit slower than their Samsung B-die counterpart.

You might still have some headroom available, so try to tighten some of the primaries.


----------



## itssladenlol

Did anybody ever find out what "Hardware incidents" in gsat are? 

I get zero errors in 12hrs gsat with my 4500 c16 but it shows a few "Hardware incidents"
Found at certain cpu cores. 
Thats with Core/cache at 45/45 just to sort that out. 

Every mem test runs with zero errors for hours. 
[email protected], usmus v3,
Karhu 20000%, hci 2000%

Gsat runs without errors also, but this damn "Hardware incidents" are driving me crazy. 

10900kf maximus XII Apex


----------



## RichKnecht

Here is where I am at with my 64GB of G-Skill 3600 @ 16-16-16-36 with my 10980XE. Ran 3 hours of Ramtest with no errors. I did install the latest bios for my R6EO board on chip #2 and it seems pretty solid. Can anyone see any settings I can improve on (or try to)?


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> You mean timings? Sure, they're pretty typical for generic 4,000 MHz RAM.
> But due to the nature of tRCD/tRP and tRAS, it'll still be a bit slower than their Samsung B-die counterpart.
> 
> You might still have some headroom available, so try to tighten some of the primaries.


So it passed an overnight of memtest 86 at 4000 cl18-22-22-42 at 1.45v. 4133 failed.

That said, I'm using Aida 64 to try to gauge performance increase and noted some wild inconsistency. First read speed run will be 53xxx for example. Following runs will be 43xxx. Figured ok, maybe memtest didn't catch instability so I dropped back to the stock xmp and it follows a similar trend.. 49xxx then down to 40xxx for the next runs.

Has anyone experienced this previously?


----------



## Imprezzion

I'm getting a bit old school here, but yeah. My server / secondary rig has a AsRock Z87M board with a i7 4770 non-K chip in it. The ram is quite "rare" to see these days. They are my old benching sticks, HyperX Savage 2400C11. By some miracle they actually run XMP on this combination stable but is there a point to pushing it further for the fun of it on a non-K chip with a bottom of the barrel board or is that just going to be a frustrating mess...

Getting 2400 9-11-10-28-280-1T would be nice on 2x8GB but I have some serious doubts the board has the signal integrity for that or the VRM to supply >1.80v vDIMM..


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> So it passed an overnight of memtest 86 at 4000 cl18-22-22-42 at 1.45v. 4133 failed.
> 
> That said, I'm using Aida 64 to try to gauge performance increase and noted some wild inconsistency. First read speed run will be 53xxx for example. Following runs will be 43xxx. Figured ok, maybe memtest didn't catch instability so I dropped back to the stock xmp and it follows a similar trend.. 49xxx then down to 40xxx for the next runs.
> 
> Has anyone experienced this previously?


It probably means that the RAM configuration is not stable. Eliminate any possible influence by other software in the background (or just boot in safe mode).


----------



## The Pook

itssladenlol said:


> Did anybody ever find out what "Hardware incidents" in gsat are?
> 
> I get zero errors in 12hrs gsat with my 4500 c16 but it shows a few "Hardware incidents"
> Found at certain cpu cores.
> Thats with Core/cache at 45/45 just to sort that out.
> 
> Every mem test runs with zero errors for hours.
> [email protected], usmus v3,
> Karhu 20000%, hci 2000%
> 
> Gsat runs without errors also, but this damn "Hardware incidents" are driving me crazy.
> 
> 10900kf maximus XII Apex


Never saw a hardware incident error in GSAT before and your post from 11/2020 is the 1st result on Google when searching for GSAT "hardware incidents" 🙃 

Are you running GSAT in WSL2? If you are and you're only having issues in GSAT and in nothing else I would imagine it's an issue with either GSAT or WSL. You could try GSAT natively in a Linux (TinyCore ISO just for GSAT) just to sanity check and rule out a WSL problem.


----------



## itssladenlol

The Pook said:


> Never saw a hardware incident error in GSAT before and your post from 11/2020 is the 1st result on Google when searching for GSAT "hardware incidents" 🙃
> 
> Are you running GSAT in WSL2? If you are and you're only having issues in GSAT and in nothing else I would imagine it's an issue with either GSAT or WSL. You could try GSAT natively in a Linux (TinyCore ISO just for GSAT) just to sanity check and rule out a WSL problem.


Thanks for the Suggestion, but im already using that Linux gsat only Image 😅

At the end of gsat there's the Report, it says errors:0 Hardware incidents:5

I guess only Google can tell what they mean. 
They are cpu related it seems, but i also get them when running the cpu Stock and ram overclocked. 
Maybe I try 0.1 more SA/Io and test if they go away.


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> It probably means that the RAM configuration is not stable. Eliminate any possible influence by other software in the background (or just boot in safe mode).


It's oddly consistently... inconsistent. 

Going to try safe mode, too but even going back to stock clocks with xmp and bumping volts to 1.4 it did the exact same. First run is in line - all other runs back to are considerably lower. Reboot and you can replicate it. Same with any other speeds I try - bandwidth and latency are in line and then all subsequent runs drop off.

Aside from Aida64 is there any other good application that is reliable?


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> It's oddly consistently... inconsistent.
> 
> Going to try safe mode, too but even going back to stock clocks with xmp and bumping volts to 1.4 it did the exact same. First run is in line - all other runs back to are considerably lower. Reboot and you can replicate it. Same with any other speeds I try - bandwidth and latency are in line and then all subsequent runs drop off.
> 
> Aside from Aida64 is there any other good application that is reliable?


Test out Maximum Performance power plan first in case any sort of Turbo clocks are causing inconsistencies.


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> Test out Maximum Performance power plan first in case any sort of Turbo clocks are causing inconsistencies.


Thanks, I'll give that a go. Safe mode netted me even worse results (less than 20xxx) Meanwhile, everything else, including memtest has shown no errors. Hours of gaming was fine and showed consistent FPS improvements, etc.


----------



## SoloCamo

Welp, setting to high performance did the trick - I owe ya one. Consistently getting high 52,xxx to low 53,xxx on all runs at DDR4000, cl18-22-22-42 2T. Latency also showed huge improvements going from near 60ns to 48.1ns on all runs. 

On a side note, this memory hates tight timings. I could barely pull off 3600 cl16-20-20-39 and the performance was worse in the games I tested.


----------



## The Pook

itssladenlol said:


> Thanks for the Suggestion, but im already using that Linux gsat only Image 😅
> 
> At the end of gsat there's the Report, it says errors:0 Hardware incidents:5
> 
> I guess only Google can tell what they mean.
> They are cpu related it seems, but i also get them when running the cpu Stock and ram overclocked.
> Maybe I try 0.1 more SA/Io and test if they go away.


Same idea, different clothes? Maybe try it in WSL then, could rule out an issue with that ISO. 

I run GSAT in WSL and never had saw that "failure", too low voltage on either vCore/vDIMM/VCCIO/SA always spat out normal hardware failures for me.


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> Welp, setting to high performance did the trick - I owe ya one. Consistently getting high 52,xxx to low 53,xxx on all runs at DDR4000, cl18-22-22-42 2T. Latency also showed huge improvements going from near 60ns to 48.1ns on all runs.
> 
> On a side note, this memory hates tight timings. I could barely pull off 3600 cl16-20-20-39 and the performance was worse in the games I tested.


Turbo clocks can affect results of tests when the CPU isn't "warmed up" since it does take those nanoseconds in order to actually ramp up/down the clocks, voltage, wattage, etc.
Benchmarks only care for the combined total score and don't "wait" to only log results at maximum clocks. So if your CPU cache clock is starting at like 500 MHz before it reaches 5,000 MHz, it'll average the scores out against all of the lower frequencies the CPU goes through before it reaches 5,000 MHz.

In practice, this isn't a big deal, but if your goal is to compare results, you'll want to maximize the clock load before doing so.


----------



## Betroz

Have any of you guys had the IMC in your CPU degraded by running high memory frequency?


----------



## Solohuman

Betroz said:


> Have any of you guys had the IMC in your CPU degraded by running high memory frequency?


That would depend on the voltages applied. Every piece of silicon is different & will respond accordingly to various voltage levels. Also, you need to be clear about what high memory frequencies your talking about eg. a number.


----------



## LQ2apos

BroadPwns said:


> Another thing to mention is that you're thermal throttling, which invalidates any stress testing.


So the next thing I have been trying is undervolting my CPU. Here are my best settings so far.


Spoiler: BIOS settings




LLC = 4
CPU Power Duty Control = Extreme
CPU Power Phase Control = Standard
CPU Core/Cache Voltage: Offset Mode, -0.060V






Spoiler: y-cruncher AVX2 stress test



Most of the time maximum core temperatures are around 90ºC. 96ºC in the screenshot below might be caused by an overshoot, perhaps?










@BroadPwns I see you've got a screenshot of BIOS of a B560 board, perhaps you've got one. I would like to see your opinions about the screenshot above.

Next upgrade may be better fans, for existing radiator and RAM sticks. BTW I've got a new 4x16 Samsung B-Die RAM kit, ready for some more "sports" later this year.


----------



## Betroz

Solohuman said:


> That would depend on the voltages applied. Every piece of silicon is different & will respond accordingly to various voltage levels. Also, you need to be clear about what high memory frequencies your talking about eg. a number.


1.55 VDIMM, 1.35 IO, 1.45 SA - 2x16gb DR @ 4400C16. 10900K SP63 CPU.


----------



## Solohuman

Betroz said:


> 1.55 VDIMM, 1.35 IO, 1.45 SA - 2x16gb DR @ 4400C16. 10900K SP63 CPU.


This is with the system in your signature? if so, not sure what G.Skill sell your sticks with when it comes to Vdimm. Some on here will claim you can run higher than 1.50vdimm if you have adequate cooling so there's that to consider. I'm on rocket lake with Z590 so don't know if 1.35 io or 1.45 sa is over doing it for your comet lake platform.
I'm running 32GB kit 4600 CL19 but with only 1.50vdimm, 1.41 io (VCCIO2 in my bios) sa 1.41v but only just tuned that today with testing. SP ratings are an Asus thing, I'm on Gigabyte board.


----------



## Betroz

Solohuman said:


> This is with the system in your signature? if so, not sure what G.Skill sell your sticks with when it comes to Vdimm.


Yes. My sticks are rated for 4000 17-18-18 at 1.40v. I have a 140mm fan over them, so temps are not a problem. Well something have degraded my CPU (see my own thread about that).


----------



## itssladenlol

New daily 









4500 c16/17 extremely tight Subs. 
1,57vdimm 1,3SA 1,3iO 1.15dmi voltage 

No need for 4600, my 4500 is as fast while being more stable.


----------



## Betroz

itssladenlol said:


> New daily


Still using Windows 7 I see. Only for benching I hope...?


----------



## itssladenlol

Betroz said:


> Still using Windows 7 I see. Only for benching I hope...?


Playing everything fine with a 3090 on Windows 7 no need to change.
Everything works, frametimes perfect.
Dont need dlss and raytracing crap.


----------



## Enterprise24

Hi there. I would like to ask about manufacturer quote XMP voltage e.g. 1.35V 1.45V 1.55V from G.Skill. Is it real load voltage like from hwinfo64 DRAM voltage or voltage that has to be set in BIOS.
I do believe some boards might overvolt a bit. My Z170 OC Formula and Z370 Taichi for example overvolt by 0.03V. If I set 1.42V in BIOS load voltage will be 1.45V in hwinfo64.
That leads to another question since I tried to play with my new kit. F4-3600C14D-32GTZN (dual ranks SS B-die) It passed GSAT 1hr. at stock setting and XMP voltage 1.45V -> load 1.48V. also success with 1.42V BIOS -> load 1.45V so I tried to undervolt to see if there is any headroom left.
1.37V BIOS -> 1.4V load = debug code 02
1.38V BIOS -> 1.41V load = BSOD and many driver component missing warning
1.39V BIOS -> 1.42V load = 80-140 errors after 10 seconds in GSAT
1.40V BIOS -> 1.43V load = IIRC error pop up after 5-10 minutes.
1.41V BIOS -> 1.44V load = Passed GSAT 1hr.
So if G.Skill counts BIOS voltage as XMP voltage I will have 0.04V headroom while if G.Skill counts real voltage I will have only 0.01V headroom left.
Any information on this ?


----------



## LQ2apos

Enterprise24 said:


> Hi there. I would like to ask about manufacturer quote XMP voltage e.g. 1.35V 1.45V 1.55V from G.Skill. Is it real load voltage like from hwinfo64 DRAM voltage or voltage that has to be set in BIOS.
> I do believe some boards might overvolt a bit. My Z170 OC Formula and Z370 Taichi for example overvolt by 0.03V. If I set 1.42V in BIOS load voltage will be 1.45V in hwinfo64.
> That leads to another question since I tried to play with my new kit. F4-3600C14D-32GTZN (dual ranks SS B-die) It passed GSAT 1hr. at stock setting and XMP voltage 1.45V -> load 1.48V. also success with 1.42V BIOS -> load 1.45V so I tried to undervolt to see if there is any headroom left.
> 1.37V BIOS -> 1.4V load = debug code 02
> 1.38V BIOS -> 1.41V load = BSOD and many driver component missing warning
> 1.39V BIOS -> 1.42V load = 80-140 errors after 10 seconds in GSAT
> 1.40V BIOS -> 1.43V load = IIRC error pop up after 5-10 minutes.
> 1.41V BIOS -> 1.44V load = Passed GSAT 1hr.
> So if G.Skill counts BIOS voltage as XMP voltage I will have 0.04V headroom while if G.Skill counts real voltage I will have only 0.01V headroom left.
> Any information on this ?


That is the minimum RAM voltage (VDIMM) required to run the XMP profile. Mainboard VRM is not really perfect to provide exact voltage every time, so there is a slight positive offset (overvoltage) even when you set VDIMM manually. Different VRM on each mainboard, different offset.


----------



## RichKnecht

Still working on the OC of my GSkill Trident Z 3600C16 64GB kit (b-Die) and I am wondering about read/write/copy values. Do they seem low to you? Every time I see people with similar RAM, their read/write times seem much higher. Also, what do you think about the latency? At stock XMP settings entered manually, it was 62.6. So it seems I reduced it by quite a bit. Here are a couple screen shots of my settings so far. I ran 3 hours of Ramtest and it seems fine, no errors. Is there anything you see that could be holding it back, or does it look good to you?


----------



## ViTosS

Should I worry with DRAM degradation using 1.56v on air? My sticks gets to 45-49 while gaming, they are stable tested till 53c each, but I'm worried if at those temps they might degrade over time...


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> Should I worry with DRAM degradation using 1.56v on air? My sticks gets to 45-49 while gaming, they are stable tested till 53c each, but I'm worried if at those temps they might degrade over time...
> 
> View attachment 2542029


I've personally run my signature kit on 1.63V for over a year now; haven't experienced any issues.
I also acquired a Samsung B-die kit that's rated at 1.60V XMP, so... Should be fine?

Neither of them are waterblock kits; they just come with heatspreaders.
The first kit has a fan that I added while the second kit does not but should be safe even without one.


----------



## 7empe

itssladenlol said:


> New daily
> View attachment 2541963
> 
> 
> 4500 c16/17 extremely tight Subs.
> 1,57vdimm 1,3SA 1,3iO 1.15dmi voltage
> 
> No need for 4600, my 4500 is as fast while being more stable.


Nice result! Is it also p95 112k stable? Just wondering if 1.3V SA is really enough. If it is, then you have a gold IMC sample. My 10900kf SP 63 (5.2/4.9 GHz with avx offset 1) to maintain p95 112k stability (no BSOD or rounding errors) needs the following SA voltages:

4500-16-17-17-34: 1.545V DIMM, 1.31V IO, 1.380V SA
4533-16-17-17-34: 1.555V DIMM, 1.31V IO, 1.425V SA
Same sub-timings for both configs:


----------



## RichKnecht

OK folks, which one of these overclocks would you use? This is 64GB of G-Skill Trident Z with stock XMP settings of 16 16 16 36 @1.35V which is confirmed to be b-die.

3800 @ 16 16 16 36 1.4V
















OR

3600 @ 15 15 15 36 1.35V


















I did notice that the RTLs and the third timings are much lower/tighter with the 3600OC. Can that be the reason read/write/copy speeds really didn't change all that much. I thought the going to 3800 would be more of a jump. Can I try I lower them one at a time or do they all need to be adjusted at the same time? Both overclocks pass 6+ hours of Ramtest with temps not going over 34C.


----------



## KedarWolf

Easy Alder Lake temps mod.









Easy Mod Lowers Alder Lake CPU Temps by 5 Degrees Celsius


As cool as a cucumber




www.tomshardware.com


----------



## SoloCamo

This seem about right for a 10900 non k running my mem? What I don't understand is I'm seeing some people post over 60,xxx MB/s read speeds on similar bandwidth memory. Sure, some have slightly lower timings but I can't see that making up for that big of a difference.


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> This seem about right for a 10900 non k running my mem? What I don't understand is I'm seeing some people post over 60,xxx MB/s read speeds on similar bandwidth memory. Sure, some have slightly lower timings but I can't see that making up for that big of a difference.
> 
> View attachment 2542494


Timings can very easily make up for that big of a difference.


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> Timings can very easily make up for that big of a difference.


Interesting. I've really been out of touch with memory oc'ing. Last memory I had before this was 32gb of cl10 DDR3 2400 which I just did a set it and forget it with xmp on my prior 4790k setup. Last time I did any meaningful memory overclocking was back in my DDR(1) days with the socket 939 AMD plataform. Still have my OCZ EL 4000 VX Gold DDR500 sticks which did 2-2-2-6 3.2V 1T out of the box.


----------



## Ichirou

Trying to push beyond 1.74V VDIMM for 4,000 MHz CL13, but 1.75V will not boot. Any ideas about what voltages could help give extra juice for stability? Strix Z690-A.


----------



## T.Sharp

KedarWolf said:


> Easy Alder Lake temps mod.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy Mod Lowers Alder Lake CPU Temps by 5 Degrees Celsius
> 
> 
> As cool as a cucumber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tomshardware.com


Interesting. I did this on my Z170 and Z390 systems because I found the socket retention force was total overkill and would cause board flex. I just used a cut up credit card to make the shims.

The IHS flex has been measured before too, it's nothing new, but certainly seems exacerbated by the shape of the Alder Lake chips.

Not sure why Intel uses such strong retention mechanisms, just the weight of the CPU is enough to fully seat the pins. I've also run the Z390 with the socket retainer completely removed to see if it made any difference, but it was no better than just using shims. The D15 applies quite a bit of force though, so it may be enough to overcome any minor IHS deformation from the socket latch.


----------



## bscool

T.Sharp said:


> Interesting. I did this on my Z170 and Z390 systems because I found the socket retention force was total overkill and would cause board flex. I just used a cut up credit card to make the shims.
> 
> The IHS flex has been measured before too, it's nothing new, but certainly seems exacerbated by the shape of the Alder Lake chips.
> 
> Not sure why Intel uses such strong retention mechanisms, just the weight of the CPU is enough to fully seat the pins. I've also run the Z390 with the socket retainer completely removed to see if it made any difference, but it was no better than just using shims. The D15 applies quite a bit of force though, so it may be enough to overcome any minor IHS deformation from the socket latch.


Just my guess the mechanism need to meet the spec/pressure for a default/Intel cooler that uses push pins.

The majority using CPUs do not use Noctua or anything like that. We are small fry compared to corporations buying mass quanity of cpus and mb/systems.


----------



## T.Sharp

bscool said:


> Just my guess the mechanism need to meet the spec/pressure for a default/Intel cooler that uses push pins.
> 
> The majority using CPUs do not use Noctua or anything like that. We are small fry compared to corporations buying mass quanity of cpus and mb/systems.


Yeah I would think they would have a good reason for it, but even with 1mm shims there's still plenty of force to hold the CPU. 🤷‍♂️ 

With an intel socket you could probably run the system with nothing but the weight of an unmounted stock cooler sitting on top. Takes almost no force to fully seat the CPU and compress the leaf spring pins.


----------



## nikolaus85

ViTosS said:


> Should I worry with DRAM degradation using 1.56v on air? My sticks gets to 45-49 while gaming, they are stable tested till 53c each, but I'm worried if at those temps they might degrade over time...
> 
> View attachment 2542029


nice timings. How did you set tcwl to 16? I have same board with 10700k and i does not let me go under 18. Is tcwl imc related? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## mouacyk

T.Sharp said:


> Interesting. I did this on my Z170 and Z390 systems because I found the socket retention force was total overkill and would cause board flex. I just used a cut up credit card to make the shims.
> 
> The IHS flex has been measured before too, it's nothing new, but certainly seems exacerbated by the shape of the Alder Lake chips.
> 
> Not sure why Intel uses such strong retention mechanisms, just the weight of the CPU is enough to fully seat the pins. I've also run the Z390 with the socket retainer completely removed to see if it made any difference, but it was no better than just using shims. The D15 applies quite a bit of force though, so it may be enough to overcome any minor IHS deformation from the socket latch.


And did you get any temp improvements, at least a smaller spread?


----------



## Jpmboy

ViTosS said:


> Should I worry with DRAM degradation using 1.56v on air? My sticks gets to 45-49 while gaming, they are stable tested till 53c each, but I'm worried if at those temps they might degrade over time...


So, just to remind folks, the VDimm limits set by the ram manufacturers is actually determined by the CPU IMC robustness testing. The ram ICs themselves can take quite high voltages, but the memory controller also has to manage that voltage... it is usually the weak link. So, Intel "advises" the Ram guys of the platform/socket/IMC voltage envelope... or more precisely, Intel and AMD tell the Ram guys what the IMC acceptable operating limits are and they comply so as not to void your warranty on the CPU.


----------



## Ichirou

Still wondering if anyone has advice on how to force the Strix Z690-A to accept beyond 1.74V VDIMM.
At the moment, motherboard just refuses to post at 1.75V+. There should be some setting to unlock that sort of thing, as people LN2 overclock to 2V+.


----------



## T.Sharp

mouacyk said:


> And did you get any temp improvements, at least a smaller spread?


Na, but I had lapped the IHS and cooler already 😅

If there was a difference, it was margin or error. 

So mostly I just sleep better now. lol


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Still wondering if anyone has advice on how to force the Strix Z690-A to accept beyond 1.74V VDIMM.
> At the moment, motherboard just refuses to post at 1.75V+. There should be some setting to unlock that sort of thing, as people LN2 overclock to 2V+.


Did you try LN2 mode(Strix might not have it, I am probably thinking of Apex) or maxmem?






Maxmem info?


Hey everyone! Pretty new here and am looking to take my memory OC up a notch! I know maxmem limits the memory used by windows so you can push high voltage an tight timings, but is there a guide or additional information I should know? Any info is appreciated!



community.hwbot.org










Maxmem in Windows 7 / 8 / 10


I recently had some trouble getting maxmem to work in my Windows 10. If I set maxmem in msconfig to e.g. 4000 it always resulted in 1.5 GB after reboot. I tried several things and in the end I found that this is working: Run CMD as admin and use this command line: bcdedit /set removememory 27000 ...



community.hwbot.org





@GtiJason He will know or PM him on here


----------



## ViTosS

nikolaus85 said:


> nice timings. How did you set tcwl to 16? I have same board with 10700k and i does not let me go under 18. Is tcwl imc related?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I just go manually in tCWL and change to 16, no mystery... I don't know if tCWL is linked to other timings, but I don't think so because I changed directly it. I like to use tCWL the same as tCL.


----------



## Taraquin

Got a i5 12400F and a Asus B660m K a few days ago. It's my sons setup so on a budget. A few questions about ram tuning. 3600 is the highest stable I've gotten i gear 1 so far, 3733 is slightly unstable even with SA at 1.3V which is max on current bios. Where can I find latest asrock timing configutator? Latest one I found 4.0.8 shows 65536 in all tabs. How do I tweak rtl/iol, what is good values at 3600 gear 1? What should I set on the tWTR-timing? CKE?

So far I got this stable on micron rev E SR at 1.42V:
15 19 19 34 (53 rc)
4/4/16 rrds/l/faw
3/6 wtrs/l
16/8 wr/rtp (I know this can go lower) 
512 rfc
65536 refi


----------



## Ichirou

Taraquin said:


> Got a i5 12400F and a Asus B660m K a few days ago. It's my sons setup so on a budget. A few questions about ram tuning. 3600 is the highest stable I've gotten i gear 1 so far, 3733 is slightly unstable even with SA at 1.3V which is max on current bios. Where can I find latest asrock timing configutator? Latest one I found 4.0.8 shows 65536 in all tabs. How do I tweak rtl/iol, what is good values at 3600 gear 1? What should I set on the tWTR-timing? CKE?
> 
> So far I got this stable on micron rev E SR at 1.42V:
> 15 19 19 34 (53 rc)
> 4/4/16 rrds/l/faw
> 3/6 wtrs/l
> 16/8 wr/rtp (I know this can go lower)
> 512 rfc
> 65536 refi


I'm sure somebody here will share with you an official link for v4.0.13.

RTL/IOL isn't easy to tweak on Z690, if it is even possible.
tWTR_s should be 1-2 and tWTR_L should be 4-6.
tCKE as low as you can go; many kits can just go to 0.

You shouldn't need VCCSA at 1.30V for 3,600 MHz. Likely an issue with something else.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@bscool
In other news, I've managed to break the 1.74V VDIMM barrier for the Galax kit I have, but no matter what VDIMM I test up to (so far 1.80V), I still get IMC-related TM5 errors (specifically, "Too high IMC voltage"). So I'm thinking that something else is amiss. The kit already boots to desktop at around 1.72-1.73V, so it probably wouldn't make any difference even if I go above 1.80V VDIMM.

I'm thinking that something is off about VCCSA or VDDQ. But I can't put my finger on what. If anyone has suggestions for voltages to try, please do tell me. For the record, my PC won't boot below 1.34V for both VCCSA or VDDQ on the ASUS Strix Z690-A; tried pretty much every BIOS already.

Back in the olden days, the IMC errors would be easily rectifiable by reducing VCCIO, but Z690 doesn't have that voltage anymore. And VDDQ isn't quite the same, from what I've noticed. I've already tried changing every single subtiming (so, non-primaries) to Auto to rule those out, but nothing seems to change.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> I'm sure somebody here will share with you an official link for v4.0.13.
> 
> RTL/IOL isn't easy to tweak on Z690, if it is even possible.
> tWTR_s should be 1-2 and tWTR_L should be 4-6.
> tCKE as low as you can go; many kits can just go to 0.
> 
> You shouldn't need VCCSA at 1.30V for 3,600 MHz. Likely an issue with something else.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> @bscool
> In other news, I've managed to break the 1.74V VDIMM barrier for the Galax kit I have, but no matter what VDIMM I test up to (so far 1.80V), I still get IMC-related TM5 errors (specifically, "Too high IMC voltage"). So I'm thinking that something else is amiss. The kit already boots to desktop at around 1.72-1.73V, so it probably wouldn't make any difference even if I go above 1.80V VDIMM.
> 
> I'm thinking that something is off about VCCSA or VDDQ. But I can't put my finger on what. If anyone has suggestions for voltages to try, please do tell me. For the record, my PC won't boot below 1.34V for both VCCSA or VDDQ on the ASUS Strix Z690-A; tried pretty much every BIOS already.
> 
> Back in the olden days, the IMC errors would be easily rectifiable by reducing VCCIO, but Z690 doesn't have that voltage anymore. And VDDQ isn't quite the same, from what I've noticed. I've already tried changing every single subtiming (so, non-primaries) to Auto to rule those out, but nothing seems to change.
> View attachment 2543109


It will be intresting to see if you get another z690 ddr4 how it goes. Clearly z690 Strix can do 4266+ on SR and DR for multiple users on here. So I am starting to wonder if it isnt something weird with those sticks.

Since supposedly your IMC did 4300 on another board no reason for it not to on your MB unless your theory of your MB has a weak slot is correct.

So both dims in slot b2 will do 4266+ if testing each stick seperately?


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> It will be intresting to see if you get another z690 ddr4 how it goes. Clearly z690 Strix can do 4266+ on SR and DR for multiple users on here. So I am starting to wonder if it isnt something weird with those sticks.
> 
> Since supposedly your IMC did 4300 on another board no reason for it not to on your MB unless your theory of your MB has a weak slot is correct.
> 
> So both dims in slot b2 will do 4266+ if testing each stick seperately?


Yeah, that's what I've theorized as well; it could be a dud of a board. Maybe the memory slots or the traces or whatever aren't good enough to be stable at these sorts of settings. I'll still test out the mounting pressure theory once the LGA1700 bracket arrives just in case it really does has an adverse effect on IMC stability to use the wrong bracket. But I'm kind of doubtful of that.

So far, the only way I can boot with 4,200 - 4,267 MHz is on Gear 2 with only B2, single stick (either one). Other slots don't seem to respond in any meaningful capacity so far.


----------



## Taraquin

Ichirou said:


> I'm sure somebody here will share with you an official link for v4.0.13.
> 
> RTL/IOL isn't easy to tweak on Z690, if it is even possible.
> tWTR_s should be 1-2 and tWTR_L should be 4-6.
> tCKE as low as you can go; many kits can just go to 0.
> 
> You shouldn't need VCCSA at 1.30V for 3,600 MHz. Likely an issue with something else.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> @bscool
> In other news, I've managed to break the 1.74V VDIMM barrier for the Galax kit I have, but no matter what VDIMM I test up to (so far 1.80V), I still get IMC-related TM5 errors (specifically, "Too high IMC voltage"). So I'm thinking that something else is amiss. The kit already boots to desktop at around 1.72-1.73V, so it probably wouldn't make any difference even if I go above 1.80V VDIMM.
> 
> I'm thinking that something is off about VCCSA or VDDQ. But I can't put my finger on what. If anyone has suggestions for voltages to try, please do tell me. For the record, my PC won't boot below 1.34V for both VCCSA or VDDQ on the ASUS Strix Z690-A; tried pretty much every BIOS already.
> 
> Back in the olden days, the IMC errors would be easily rectifiable by reducing VCCIO, but Z690 doesn't have that voltage anymore. And VDDQ isn't quite the same, from what I've noticed. I've already tried changing every single subtiming (so, non-primaries) to Auto to rule those out, but nothing seems to change.
> View attachment 2543109


Thanks, 3600 gear 1 runs fine on auto  3700, 3733 is slightly unstable no matter what SA voltage I use, auto, 1.2 or 1 3v makes no difference. Maybe bad IMC or need to wait for better bios  What about the WTR-timing? Wtrs and l I know from ryzen, run 3-6now, can try 2 on first.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I am pretty close to calling this my daily mem OC.

1.61 vdimm, 1.47 SA, 1.75 IVR VDDQ.

The IVR voltage really helped stabilize 4200


----------



## SimplyQQ

Can anyone help me with this:

I have 4x8gb running 17-17-17-40 with all other set to auto. It is absolutely stable under any test I throw at it even at 1.35v - can run tm5, anything for 24 hours no errors. However, once I stop the test, and leave PC idle, it reboots with random bsod within an hour. Doesn't seem to reboot if I don't give load beforehand. Does this even at 1.45v. 

Am I missing something obvious?


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> I am pretty close to calling this my daily mem OC.
> 
> 1.61 vdimm, 1.47 SA, 1.75 IVR VDDQ.
> 
> The IVR voltage really helped stabilize 4200
> 
> View attachment 2543213


By IVR VDDQ, do you mean "IVR Transmitted VDDQ Voltage"?

I'm stuck in this situation where no matter _what_ I do, I constantly get (with 1usmus) Error 6, 2, or 12. The rest of the errors are kind of just a domino effect building off of those.
This is what I'm trying to stabilize by the way. It boots to desktop and idles just fine:











SimplyQQ said:


> Can anyone help me with this:
> 
> I have 4x8gb running 17-17-17-40 with all other set to auto. It is absolutely stable under any test I throw at it even at 1.35v - can run tm5, anything for 24 hours no errors. However, once I stop the test, and leave PC idle, it reboots with random bsod within an hour. Doesn't seem to reboot if I don't give load beforehand. Does this even at 1.45v.
> 
> Am I missing something obvious?


Sounds like VCCSA is too low. What's the BSOD error code?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> By IVR VDDQ, do you mean "IVR Transmitted VDDQ Voltage"?
> 
> I'm stuck in this situation where no matter _what_ I do, I constantly get (with 1usmus) Error 6, 2, or 12. The rest of the errors are kind of just a domino effect building off of those.
> This is what I'm trying to stabilize by the way. It boots to desktop and idles just fine:
> 
> View attachment 2543218
> 
> 
> Sounds like VCCSA is too low. What's the BSOD error code?


Have you tried tcke 4? 

I thought @cstkl1 said something about below 4 can effect training.

Also @safedisk set 4 in cmo he puts out for z690.


----------



## SimplyQQ

Ichirou said:


> By IVR VDDQ, do you mean "IVR Transmitted VDDQ Voltage"?
> 
> I'm stuck in this situation where no matter _what_ I do, I constantly get (with 1usmus) Error 6, 2, or 12. The rest of the errors are kind of just a domino effect building off of those.
> This is what I'm trying to stabilize by the way. It boots to desktop and idles just fine:
> 
> View attachment 2543218
> 
> 
> Sounds like VCCSA is too low. What's the BSOD error code?


I left VCCSA/VCCIO on Auto, which on XI Hero is around 1.4v. So don't think it's too low. Error codes are different each time... and random ones, not something you usually see.


----------



## Betroz

bscool said:


> Have you tried tcke 4?


I thought when you have set PPD 0, then tcke 0 is okay. I have both at 0 and have no problems with training.


----------



## bscool

Betroz said:


> I thought when you have set PPD 0, then tcke 0 is okay. I have both at 0 and have no problems with training.


Z590 and z690 things are a little different than z490.

Edit Actually I remember @cstkl1 saying below 4 on z490 also was not recommended.

I dont know I never set them that low but I just go by trial and error and dont set my timings are tight as most.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> By IVR VDDQ, do you mean "IVR Transmitted VDDQ Voltage"?
> 
> I'm stuck in this situation where no matter _what_ I do, I constantly get (with 1usmus) Error 6, 2, or 12. The rest of the errors are kind of just a domino effect building off of those.
> This is what I'm trying to stabilize by the way. It boots to desktop and idles just fine:
> 
> View attachment 2543218
> 
> 
> Sounds like VCCSA is too low. What's the BSOD error code?


You are trying to stabilize a single 8 gb dimm at 4000 13-13-11-14? Why not try something more normal like 2 dimms at 4133-4200 14-15-15-28?


----------



## bscool

@Betroz Also @PhoenixMDA does not set it that low Has my 10900K degraded? Solved!

I take it these guys who run high clocks with tight timings know what they are doing and what works. That is why most people run the same or simlar settings.

I do see some people running 0, not sure the effect. I heard it just defaults to 4 but cause booting or training issues. Or makes it harder.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Have you tried tcke 4?
> 
> I thought @cstkl1 said something about below 4 can effect training.
> 
> Also @safedisk set 4 in cmo he puts out for z690.





Betroz said:


> I thought when you have set PPD 0, then tcke 0 is okay. I have both at 0 and have no problems with training.





geriatricpollywog said:


> You are trying to stabilize a single 8 gb dimm at 4000 13-13-11-14? Why not try something more normal like 2 dimms at 4133-4200 14-15-15-28?





bscool said:


> @Betroz Also @PhoenixMDA does not set it that low Has my 10900K degraded? Solved!
> 
> I take it these guys who run high clocks with tight timings know what they are doing and what works. That is why most people run the same or simlar settings.
> 
> I do see some people running 0, not sure the effect. I heard it just defaults to 4 but cause booting or training issues. Or makes it harder.


The RAM I have has zero issues training and booting to desktop at the moment though. If anything, it feels like this kit *wants *to be pushed hard.
But I will try tCKE at 4 (tXP and tPPD are set to 0 right now). Side note: Jacking ~1.85V into the RAM does nothing; still the same errors.

@geriatricpollywog Because 4,000 CL13 is my dream 
Also I'm just doing one DIMM at a time so I have a baseline to work with before I try Dual Channel.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> The RAM I have has zero issues training and booting to desktop at the moment though. If anything, it feels like this kit *wants *to be pushed hard.
> But I will try tCKE at 4 (tXP and tPPD are set to 0 right now). Side note: Jacking ~1.85V into the RAM does nothing; still the same errors.
> 
> @geriatricpollywog Because 4,000 CL13 is my dream
> Also I'm just doing one DIMM at a time so I have a baseline to work with before I try Dual Channel.


Txp and ppd why 0 I leaven default. This isn't z490.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> By IVR VDDQ, do you mean "IVR Transmitted VDDQ Voltage"?
> 
> I'm stuck in this situation where no matter _what_ I do, I constantly get (with 1usmus) Error 6, 2, or 12. The rest of the errors are kind of just a domino effect building off of those.
> This is what I'm trying to stabilize by the way. It boots to desktop and idles just fine:
> 
> View attachment 2543218
> 
> 
> Sounds like VCCSA is too low. What's the BSOD error code?


I see other timings that are too tight. But I guess you have your own way of doing it.

I never run them that tight anyway.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> I see other timings that are too tight. But I guess you have your own way of doing it.
> 
> I never run them that tight anyway.


Some like them tight, some like them fast.


----------



## Ichirou

@geriatricpollywog How exactly does VDDQ work? Is it just more = better, or?
I tried a ton of values between 1.35-1.55V and none of them made a difference. Similar situation for VCCSA too, with a range of 1.25-1.45V.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> @geriatricpollywog How exactly does VDDQ work? Is it just more = better, or?
> I tried a ton of values between 1.35-1.55V and none of them made a difference. Similar situation for VCCSA too, with a range of 1.25-1.45V.


I don’t really know what I’m doing, but I’ve heard that you can’t overdo it on VDDQ voltage so I set it to 1.75v which stabilizes 4200. I tried 2.2v at 4266 but I got errors in memtest. And 2.2v did not damage anything.

Also I’ve never run VDDQ below 1.595v except during safe boot.


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> I don’t really know what I’m doing, but I’ve heard that you can’t overdo it on VDDQ voltage so I set it to 1.75v which stabilizes 4200. I tried 2.2v at 4266 but I got errors in memtest. And 2.2v did not damage anything.
> 
> Also I’ve never run VDDQ below 1.595v except during safe boot.


I see... I wonder what it is, then. Is it an IMC voltage, or not quite?
Searching through some old threads, it uses the 5V rail or something? Is it like some sort of supplementary voltage specifically to the RAM?
Very mysterious.

I'm testing values at 1.60V and above, and certainly notice some stability. Incredible.


----------



## bscool

Z690 is tricky in that getting it to pass memory tests not that difficult. But certain uses will fail crash within seconds that and hour of various memtest passed. 

Good quick test y cruncher 2.5b saves hours of wasted running memtest. If won't run y cruncher it won't pass a good memtest.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Now I'm ready to call it my daily. Not prepared to test this against y-cruncher or Linpack Extreme.


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> Now I'm ready to call it my daily. Not prepared to test this against y-cruncher or Linpack Extreme.
> 
> View attachment 2543236


Y cruncher 2.5b only takes around 70 seconds to run. But if unstable won't crash the computer it just won't run.

I don't know if you have ever tried it. I like the benchmate version makes it easy to run. 

Press f6 at end of run shows more stats






BenchMate







benchmate.org


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> Y cruncher 2.5b only takes around 70 seconds to run. But if unstable won't crash the computer it just won't run.
> 
> I don't know if you have ever tried it. I like the benchmate version makes it easy to run.
> 
> Press f6 at end of run shows more stats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BenchMate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> benchmate.org


My OC won’t pass Linpack Extreme and there’s no more real test than that. I’d like to see a 5.2ghz CPU pass that without LN2.


----------



## Ichirou

@geriatricpollywog Well, it seems that my BIOS won't boot beyond 1.68V VDDQ. Oh well. Will test higher VCCSA values instead then.
Even in HWInfo, no matter what value above 1.60V I set, it still reads as 1.60V.

In other news, 0812 made my P-core SP score go from 98 to 101 lol


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> @geriatricpollywog Well, it seems that my BIOS won't boot beyond 1.68V VDDQ. Oh well. Will test higher VCCSA values instead then.
> Even in HWInfo, no matter what value above 1.60V I set, it still reads as 1.60V.
> 
> In other news, 0812 made my P-core SP score go from 98 to 101 lol


Bios 901. It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking it up.


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> Bios 901. It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking it up.


I actually tested 0901 already, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to retest it now that I've got a working overclock albeit somewhat unstable.
I'll try it again tomorrow since it's really late now.


----------



## Betroz

bscool said:


> Edit Actually I remember @cstkl1 saying below 4 on z490 also was not recommended.





bscool said:


> @Betroz Also @PhoenixMDA does not set it that low Has my 10900K degraded? Solved!
> 
> I take it these guys who run high clocks with tight timings know what they are doing and what works. That is why most people run the same or simlar settings.
> 
> I do see some people running 0, not sure the effect. I heard it just defaults to 4 but cause booting or training issues. Or makes it harder.


I have no problems with tcke at 0 with my 4266C16 profile, but it may make a difference at higher clocks. Is there any other reason to have it at 4 or higher? Performance reasons?


----------



## bscool

Betroz said:


> I have no problems with tcke at 0 with my 4266C16 profile, but it may make a difference at higher clocks. Is there any other reason to have it at 4 or higher? Performance reasons?


It has to do with power saving or power down.it is in the Intel documentation. Also has info about ppd if you can find the document and txp

Best performance should be 4 I set 7 out of habit n for good luck 😁


----------



## Martin v r

geriatricpollywog said:


> I am pretty close to calling this my daily mem OC.
> 
> 1.61 vdimm, 1.47 SA, 1.75 IVR VDDQ.
> 
> The IVR voltage really helped stabilize 4200
> 
> View attachment 2543213


why have you set tREFI so high ?? 180000, have tried with mine and at 49161 I get the same look out of it and there is 3x of org speed on these mem


----------



## Martin v r

nice run 
* bscool*


I stay at 1.5v, find it a bit wild that the next jump is over 1.55v at cl15 and 1.6 + v at cl14 but nice you reach so far with your ram, and then I can see the new intel cpuer gives some more bandwidth to mem


----------



## PhoenixMDA

bscool said:


> @Betroz Also @PhoenixMDA does not set it that low Has my 10900K degraded? Solved!
> 
> I take it these guys who run high clocks with tight timings know what they are doing and what works. That is why most people run the same or simlar settings.
> 
> I do see some people running 0, not sure the effect. I heard it just defaults to 4 but cause booting or training issues. Or makes it harder.


I don´t know it to 100% but i think if PPD=0 the power down mode is completly off and he also don´t switch to APD Mode, so cke and txp has no impact/off.
For APD and PPD Mode it is said arround 30% lower power consumption.
TXP is in the intel spec´s min 4 that´s i have set it so, but i can also drive 0, tcke has also no impact 10/6/0 all the same.You see it by power watt dram.


----------



## Ichirou

PhoenixMDA said:


> I don´t know it to 100% but i think if PPD=0 the power down mode is completly off and he also don´t switch to APD Mode, so cke and txp has no impact/off.
> For APD and PPD Mode it is said arround 30% lower power consumption.
> TXP is in the intel spec´s 4 that´s i have set it so, but i can also drive 0, tcke has also no impact 10/6/0 all the same.You see it by power watt dram.
> View attachment 2543282


I usually just set tPPD/tXP/tCKE to 0 for all of them since it's less thinking. But it seems people here find that tCKE at 4 is better?


----------



## Martin v r

PhoenixMDA said:


> I don´t know it to 100% but i think if PPD=0 the power down mode is completly off and he also don´t switch to APD Mode, so cke and txp has no impact/off.
> For APD and PPD Mode it is said arround 30% lower power consumption.
> TXP is in the intel spec´s 4 that´s i have set it so, but i can also drive 0, tcke has also no impact 10/6/0 all the same.You see it by power watt dram.
> View attachment 2543282


2 foto but not same North ring clock???


----------



## Ichirou

Martin v r said:


> 2 foto but not same North ring clock???


Could be due to turbo. But it doesn't seem like it matters anyway, based on the numbers shown.


----------



## Agent-A01

Ichirou said:


> I usually just set tPPD/tXP/tCKE to 0 for all of them since it's less thinking. But it seems people here find that tCKE at 4 is better?


Makes no difference with PPD set to 0.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Downclock im idle
Here can everyone read.
https://www.samsung.com/semiconduct.../11/DDR4_Device_Operations_Rev11_Oct_14-0.pdf


----------



## bscool

PhoenixMDA said:


> I don´t know it to 100% but i think if PPD=0 the power down mode is completly off and he also don´t switch to APD Mode, so cke and txp has no impact/off.
> For APD and PPD Mode it is said arround 30% lower power consumption.
> TXP is in the intel spec´s 4 that´s i have set it so, but i can also drive 0, tcke has also no impact 10/6/0 all the same.You see it by power watt dram.
> View attachment 2543282


Also i am pretty sure some of these setting have change how they behave on z590 and z690 and people keep using z490 methods.

Wish you were on 12th gen you are one of the more knowledgeable people on mem. you could confirm or deny what I am seeing  on these new gens.


----------



## bscool

Agent-A01 said:


> Makes no difference with PPD set to 0.


On z690 have you tested different ppd #? I have and saw 0 change. Even thought it might show it "sticks" and displays in MEMTWEAK it I could not see any difference in testing using Adia64 or Intel memory Latency checker.

Or do you need to use other applicatiion or bench to see the minute differences?

I know on z490 it a huge difference between ppd 1 and 0. A few ns latency.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

bscool said:


> Also i am pretty sure some of these setting have change how they behave on z590 and z690 and people keep using z490 methods.
> 
> Wish you were on 12th gen you are one of the more knowledgeable people on mem. you could confirm or deny what I am seeing  on these new gens.


For DDR5 is the gain to my system is too low, i think i waiting for Raptorlake, perhap´s then it give´s better ic´s and the IMC is better.
I take the time and money for some other project´s, that give´s me more.

But in the intel Spec´s it looks that the powerdown mode are like the same as DDR4, if the bios do it right.
DRAM Power Management and Initialization - 004 - ID:655258 | Core™ Processors


----------



## TheHunter

bscool said:


> On z690 have you tested different ppd #? I have and saw 0 change. Even thought it might show it "sticks" and displays in MEMTWEAK it I could not see any difference in testing using Adia64 or Intel memory Latency checker.
> 
> Or do you need to use other applicatiion or bench to see the minute differences?
> 
> I know on z490 it a huge difference between ppd 1 and 0. A few ns latency.


If I have PPD 1 and then try tXP 4 or 7, is that wise or only if PPD 0?

when I tested one time it lowered 1-2ns at txp 7, 7 is also default jedec ram spec according to msi bios. But after 2hrs of gameplay it corrupted ingame gfx, desktop was fine., could this be ram instability then or because I also adjusted tXPDLL from 39 to 26?

Does lower tXP also need more SA or IO2?


----------



## bscool

TheHunter said:


> If I have PPD 1 and then try tXP 4 or 7, is that wise or only if PPD 0?
> 
> when I tested one time it lowered 1-2ns at txp 7, 7 is also default jedec ram spec according to msi bios. But after 2hrs of gameplay it corrupted ingame gfx, desktop was fine., could this be ram instability then or because I also adjusted tXPDLL from 39 to 26?
> 
> Does lower tXP also need more SA or IO2?


You are on z490 it depends on if using 10th gen or 11th gen cpu. I looked back at your posts and you have11th gen so it is backwards ppd1 gives lower latency last I knew. test both and verify for yourself.

This only applies to MSI z490 MB with 11th gen cpu.

Dont know about the rest of your question I never messed with txp on z490 with 11th gen. But in general for stabiliy both sa and io2 help. Didnt use 11th gen cpu on z490 MSI much so cant help. I just know when I tested ppd was backward maybe new bioses fixed it, test it.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool








The store estimates up to 2-3 weeks, so that should be just in time for the LGA1700 bracket's arrival.
Whether the result turns out to be, I'll keep the better board and sell the other at a discount. Either here or local.


----------



## newls1

Ichirou said:


> I usually just set tPPD/tXP/tCKE to 0 for all of them since it's less thinking. But it seems people here find that tCKE at 4 is better?


is this for z690?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> @bscool
> 
> The store estimates up to 2-3 weeks, so that should be just in time for the LGA1700 bracket's arrival.
> Whether the result turns out to be, I'll keep the better board and sell the other at a discount. Either here or local.


Cant wait!


----------



## Martin v r

I'm starting over, I found you get a nice bandwidth on mem, but along the way I lost performance


----------



## newls1

in what sense? please explain


----------



## Ichirou

*4,000 MHz 13-15-13-20-1T Gear 1 stable
1.60V VDIMM, 1.25V VCCSA, 1.35V VDDQ*
@s1rrah


----------



## Martin v r

newls1 said:


> in what sense? please explain


fps in game an 3Dmark have tested 3 times all my tests, for each time I make a change to my mem,
also found that the performance was better at 4200MHZ against 4300MHZ, whether it is bios or mem / cpuen I do not know
i run at fixed core speed, it also has something to say


----------



## s1rrah

Ichirou said:


> View attachment 2543943
> 
> *4,000 MHz 13-15-13-20-1T Gear 1 stable
> 1.60V VDIMM, 1.25V VCCSA, 1.35V VDDQ*
> @s1rrah


Well done, sir.


----------



## nikolaus85

can latency been improved on z690?


----------



## Ichirou

nikolaus85 said:


> can latency been improved on z690?


Same process as always, although what weighs on it the most is apparently the inability to tighten the RTLs.

Your next best bet is to kill off the E-cores and dump the remainder of your Vcore headroom into the cache clock.


----------



## Agent-A01

Ichirou said:


> View attachment 2543943
> 
> *4,000 MHz 13-15-13-20-1T Gear 1 stable
> 1.60V VDIMM, 1.25V VCCSA, 1.35V VDDQ*
> @s1rrah


Nice results. I little more vdimm than I would want to use.

I wouldn't call it stable based on just those tests. Default testmem is pretty useless for stability.
But you do have pretty relaxed subtimings so it may not matter.

Better use anta777 extreme or absolut setting to finalize stability.


----------



## Ichirou

Agent-A01 said:


> Nice results. I little more vdimm than I would want to use.
> 
> I wouldn't call it stable based on just those tests. Default testmem is pretty useless for stability.
> But you do have pretty relaxed subtimings so it may not matter.
> 
> Better use anta777 extreme or absolut setting to finalize stability.


That's actually 1usmus and not serj, so not as garbage tier as default TM5 . But yes, the intention is to use anta777 once everything's basically locked in.

Been busy so not working on any tweaking for now.


----------



## Taraquin

Ichirou said:


> View attachment 2543943
> 
> *4,000 MHz 13-15-13-20-1T Gear 1 stable
> 1.60V VDIMM, 1.25V VCCSA, 1.35V VDDQ*
> @s1rrah


Do VDDG matter for DDR4? Haven`t touched that yet, maybe I can go above 3600 using higher VDDQ?


----------



## Taraquin

Ichirou said:


> That's actually 1usmus and not serj, so not as garbage tier as default TM5 . But yes, the intention is to use anta777 once everything's basically locked in.
> 
> Been busy so not working on any tweaking for now.


I think anta made i new one: universal if i remember correctly


----------



## ViTosS

There is something weird I found... I can only train (post and boot) the first time after changing RTLs and IOLs from AUTO to RTLs and IOLs tightened with IO at 1.31v at least, anything below that won't post, but if I disable the training, set the option to No Training (after posting with 1.31v IO) and then reduce my IO to 1.20v I can boot infinitely and also cold boot any time and also be able to pass TM5, but I seem to have lost stability these days after so many boots and reboots, is that related to the IO I reduced? It doesn't make sense to me because I wouldn't be able to post with 1.20v IO neither pass TM5, this MSI mobo is all weird.


----------



## Betroz

Taraquin said:


> I think anta made i new one: universal if i remember correctly


ABSOLUT was the name of the TM5 script. He may have created one after that, I don't know.


----------



## Thrakis

I'm looking for some good ddr4 32GB (2x16GB) as upgrade for my F4-4000C17-16GTRS running today @4000 with 15,15,30,2T @ 1,45V on AM X apex with 8700k. Is there any "obvious" choice for the time being, or can we expect something good around the corner worth waiting?
Grateful for any hints.


----------



## davids40

👋
with alder lake 12700K / MSI MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4
is it better ? :
- 4*8Go SR G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GVK 2017 IC's easy oc 3600/3800 1.45 vdimm
or
- 2*16Go DR G.SKILL F4-3600C16D-32GTZN 2020 IC's bad oc , but good timings 1.45 vdimm 

thanks 🙏


----------



## bscool

davids40 said:


> 👋
> with alder lake 12700K / MSI MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4
> is it better ? :
> - 4*8Go SR G.SKILL F4-3200C14D-16GVK 2017 IC's easy oc 3600/3800 1.45 vdimm
> or
> - 2*16Go DR G.SKILL F4-3600C16D-32GTZN 2020 IC's bad oc , but good timings 1.45 vdimm
> 
> thanks 🙏


z690 is easier to OC mem with 2x16 as MB are daisy chain topology

z690 thread will get more specific feedback [Official] Intel Z690 / DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


----------



## davids40




----------



## bscool

Thrakis said:


> I'm looking for some good ddr4 32GB (2x16GB) as upgrade for my F4-4000C17-16GTRS running today @4000 with 15,15,30,2T @ 1,45V on AM X apex with 8700k. Is there any "obvious" choice for the time being, or can we expect something good around the corner worth waiting?
> Grateful for any hints.


Any of DR b die will clock similarly. For better chance buy the higher bins. You can tell the higher bins by price in most cases as 4000c14 is around double 4000c16-16-16 but when manyually OC will be within a small margin of each other unless you get a weak bin of 4000c16. So up to you is every tiny bit worth it then try to find 4000c14 2x16.


----------



## Thrakis

bscool said:


> Any of DR b die will clock similarly. For better chance buy the higher bins. You can tell the higher bins by price in most cases as 4000c14 is around double 4000c16-16-16 but when manyually OC will be within a small margin of each other unless you get a weak bin of 4000c16. So up to you is every tiny bit worth it then try to find 4000c14 2x16.


Thanks for response.
Was hoping to find some 32GB in line with F4-4800C17D-16GVK DDR4-4800MHz CL17-19-19-39 1.60V, but couldn't find any yet.
Lucky with quite good CPU, which runs stably with Vsa, Vio under 1,1V.
So aiming in running some higher freqs 4,4-4,8 on the new ram set.


----------



## bscool

Thrakis said:


> Thanks for response.
> Was hoping to find some 32GB in line with F4-4800C17D-16GVK DDR4-4800MHz CL17-19-19-39 1.60V, but couldn't find any yet.
> Lucky with quite good CPU, which runs stably with Vsa, Vio under 1,1V.
> So aiming in running some higher freqs 4,4-4,8 on the new ram set.


The highest frequency dr b die that make is 4400c17 kit. F4-4400C17D-32GVK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Also 4266c16 DR kit should be similar. F4-4266C16D-32GVK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

They have different heatspreaders if you want RGB. I prefer no RGB.


----------



## Martin v r

Ichirou said:


> View attachment 2543943
> 
> *4,000 MHz 13-15-13-20-1T Gear 1 stable
> 1.60V VDIMM, 1.25V VCCSA, 1.35V VDDQ*
> @s1rrah


nice but also lose performance I can see, in the old days it was ASUS that had the most bios setup.but now I have never seen so many options before, have MSI and can screw must much more on my mem, one I have been able to find on ASUS, so I'm a little lost now


----------



## Thrakis

bscool said:


> The highest frequency dr b die that make is 4400c17 kit. F4-4400C17D-32GVK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> Also 4266c16 DR kit should be similar. F4-4266C16D-32GVK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> They have different heatspreaders if you want RGB. I prefer no RGB.


Thanks for links.
Looks like similar performance to mine 4000C15 just higher transfer rates. 
Think I'm going to wait a bit more then for some decent 32GB chips.
Best regards


----------



## SoloCamo

So does alder lake have poor latency?

HWU did a large review of multiple corsair kits on the 12900k. I ind it extremely odd that their 4000 kit with the same primary timings as my 4000 kit gets a bit more bandwidth (53,xxx vs 57,xxxx) but my latency is considerably better on a 10900 non k? I mean we're talking the same kit that just pulled a bit more bandwidth is at 78.8ns and my kit at 48.7ns? Something doesn't seem right.

That said... is there any good low profile DDR4 kits that will fit under a NH-D15? Though I play at 4k and don't have any cpu issues in any game I play I'm starting to become obsessed with squeezing a bit more out of this cpu via memory.


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> So does alder lake have poor latency?
> 
> HWU did a large review of multiple corsair kits on the 12900k. I ind it extremely odd that their 4000 kit with the same primary timings as my 4000 kit gets a bit more bandwidth (53,xxx vs 57,xxxx) but my latency is considerably better on a 10900 non k? I mean we're talking the same kit that just pulled a bit more bandwidth is at 78.8ns and my kit at 48.7ns? Something doesn't seem right.
> 
> That said... is there any good low profile DDR4 kits that will fit under a NH-D15? Though I play at 4k and don't have any cpu issues in any game I play I'm starting to become obsessed with squeezing a bit more out of this cpu via memory.


RAM latency is a bit higher on Z690. Z390/Z490 still remains the best for pure latency. But overall performance is better on the Z690 due to simply better CPUs.
Hard to compare apples to oranges when the environment is different. Also this is just assuming something like XMP and not manual overclocking.
Manual overclocking; you could probably bridge the gap significantly and bring bandwidth and latency much closer.


----------



## Martin v r

SoloCamo said:


> So does alder lake have poor latency?
> 
> HWU did a large review of multiple corsair kits on the 12900k. I ind it extremely odd that their 4000 kit with the same primary timings as my 4000 kit gets a bit more bandwidth (53,xxx vs 57,xxxx) but my latency is considerably better on a 10900 non k? I mean we're talking the same kit that just pulled a bit more bandwidth is at 78.8ns and my kit at 48.7ns? Something doesn't seem right.
> 
> That said... is there any good low profile DDR4 kits that will fit under a NH-D15? Though I play at 4k and don't have any cpu issues in any game I play I'm starting to become obsessed with squeezing a bit more out of this cpu via memory.


490 is bandwidth 6XXXX whit overclock


----------



## Taraquin

SoloCamo said:


> So does alder lake have poor latency?
> 
> HWU did a large review of multiple corsair kits on the 12900k. I ind it extremely odd that their 4000 kit with the same primary timings as my 4000 kit gets a bit more bandwidth (53,xxx vs 57,xxxx) but my latency is considerably better on a 10900 non k? I mean we're talking the same kit that just pulled a bit more bandwidth is at 78.8ns and my kit at 48.7ns? Something doesn't seem right.
> 
> That said... is there any good low profile DDR4 kits that will fit under a NH-D15? Though I play at 4k and don't have any cpu issues in any game I play I'm starting to become obsessed with squeezing a bit more out of this cpu via memory.


At xmp, but when you tweak some it ain`t so bad: 




 11:13: 50ns on Hynix 6400cl30 and 60ns on Micron 5400cl38. 12:09: 43ns on B-die 4133cl15 and 47.5ns on DJR 4000cl17.


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> RAM latency is a bit higher on Z690. Z390/Z490 still remains the best for pure latency. But overall performance is better on the Z690 due to simply better CPUs.
> Hard to compare apples to oranges when the environment is different. Also this is just assuming something like XMP and not manual overclocking.
> Manual overclocking; you could probably bridge the gap significantly and bring bandwidth and latency much closer.


So in hindsight, did I make a mistake going Z590 when I was planning on a 10900 from the start? Figured the newer platform would be better but it seems like Z490 was probably the better option and could have saved me a bit of $$.


----------



## Dreamhackian

@PhoenixMDA I saw some of your older posts about DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on ASUS. Got any tips for tweaking this? My 4600c16 boots and passes tm5 but then fails reboot sometimes with 3A/3E/3F. I assume this is vref. when i drop vref, i get 2C (0.48-0.505) and (0.505-0.53) I get 3F or 3E.

Kit is very strong (4400c17 GTZR) does 4533c16 at 1.53 absolut stable at 1.28 io 1.28 sa


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> So in hindsight, did I make a mistake going Z590 when I was planning on a 10900 from the start? Figured the newer platform would be better but it seems like Z490 was probably the better option and could have saved me a bit of $$.


Z590 is fine with latency too.

Z690's higher latency is mostly down to the CPU architecture/IMC anyway, the chipset has little to nothing to do with latency.


----------



## sdmf74

A couple questions for you guys.
1. On z590 is VCCIO2 supposed to be higher than SA voltage?

I read somewhere that these two voltages can be set much lower than previously even up to 5000mhz ram so I'm testing now one at a time trying to get them down as low as possible. I thought I had done this when I bought my 13 hero & 11900k but I'm currently sitting at SA 1.368V (SA LLC 1) & VCCIO2 1.35V with 4 sticks of 3600mhz trident z rgb bdie.

2. Does having RDB disabled require more voltage?

I previously had RDB disabled so maybe that's why the above voltages were as low as they could go.
I'm currently testing the SA voltage and passing 3 hours of ram test without errors at SA 1.25V so it seems like I am able to lower, at least the SA.

3. Do you guys enable or disable RDB? and why?

I currently have my CPU OC to 54x3 53x5 52x8 per core 1.5v .16mohm AC/DC LL but when I run an AIDA64 test with hwinfo64 open I'm noticing the max voltage column is showing 1.634v. Must be hitting this only for microsecond because my idle and load voltages are much lower.

4. What's up with the 134mv voltage overshoot? is this normal? (Adaptive oc btw).

Please answer any of them you can, sorry for multiple questions. It's been a while.


----------



## newls1

Can someone assist me with setting these options, was hoping to squeeze a little more from the ram.... Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## Martin v r

MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## newls1

Martin v r said:


> MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> 
> 
> C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


thank you for the link, but it only states this for just one of those settings in my pic and its not detailed at all... 


tXP (and subsequently PPD) has a major impact on AIDA64 memory latency.
Have no idea where to even start on this


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> thank you for the link, but it only states this for just one of those settings in my pic and its not detailed at all...
> 
> 
> tXP (and subsequently PPD) has a major impact on AIDA64 memory latency.
> Have no idea where to even start on this


I have tested and on z590/z690 they dont do anything, if they do not enough for me to see or bother with changing them. But people like to set them because they did on previous gens.

Test it for yourself on z690 set ppd to 1, 0 etc and post results. I have tested it and it does nothing. I used Aida64 and Intel Latency checke, super pi.

Set to whatever makes you "feel" good even if they dont do anything  

Another example is people setting tREFI beyond 65535 when i recently tested I saw regression [Official] Intel Z690 / DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> I have tested and on z590/z690 they dont do anything, if they do not enough for me to see or bother with changing them. But people like to set them because they did on previous gens.
> 
> Test it for yourself on z690 set ppd to 1, 0 etc and post results. I have tested it and it does nothing. I used Aida64 and Intel Latency checke, super pi.
> 
> Set to whatever makes you "feel" good even if they dont do anything
> 
> Another example is people setting tREFI beyond 65535 when i recently tested I saw regression [Official] Intel Z690 / DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


im scared to even go into my bios anymore, like the simplest change of anything throws something somewhere in a wack and i loose stability.. Z690 is so fragile!


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> im scared to even go into my bios anymore, like the simplest change of anything throws something somewhere in a wack and i loose stability.. Z690 is so fragile!


For me it has been the easiest overall experience in years. Getting a good IMC makes all the difference.

But yeah somethings are "picky".


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Dreamhackian said:


> @PhoenixMDA I saw some of your older posts about DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on ASUS. Got any tips for tweaking this? My 4600c16 boots and passes tm5 but then fails reboot sometimes with 3A/3E/3F. I assume this is vref. when i drop vref, i get 2C (0.48-0.505) and (0.505-0.53) I get 3F or 3E.
> 
> Kit is very strong (4400c17 GTZR) does 4533c16 at 1.53 absolut stable at 1.28 io 1.28 sa


It's so if you get 2C you are "out of the windows".
Normaly it's so if you get 3E the vref must higher, test higher as 0.53.If you are to high you get also 2C.
If it doesn’t help change Subtimings, you get also 3F that means your Roundtrip fail, to low voltage's for the rtl/iol, or not the best value's.
But I think the easiest way is to raise up the vdimm because you get @vref 0.5 error 2C.

P.s.
Your io/sa must be also enough, for an ever stable boot, it's with Auto Slope's most time some steps higher as a "lucky" stable boot at low io/sa.


----------



## Martin v r

I can run 14-14-14-28 at 4000MHZ at 4100MHZ I have to go up to cl 15 and at 4200MHZ I can run 16-16-16-28
but should I run 4300 / 4400MHZ sticks cl of completely crazy also the volt
and I want to stay below 1.5v as there must also be room for it to be summer, so all tests are at 1.48v
best bandwidth is achieved at 4200MHZ whether it is bios / cpu / motherboard / mem I do not know

1.20 io 1.35 sa


----------



## sdmf74

sdmf74 said:


> A couple questions for you guys.
> 1. On z590 is VCCIO2 supposed to be higher than SA voltage?
> 
> I read somewhere that these two voltages can be set much lower than previously even up to 5000mhz ram so I'm testing now one at a time trying to get them down as low as possible. I thought I had done this when I bought my 13 hero & 11900k but I'm currently sitting at SA 1.368V (SA LLC 1) & VCCIO2 1.35V with 4 sticks of 3600mhz trident z rgb bdie.
> 
> 2. Does having RDB disabled require more voltage?
> 
> I previously had RDB disabled so maybe that's why the above voltages were as low as they could go.
> I'm currently testing the SA voltage and passing 3 hours of ram test without errors at SA 1.25V so it seems like I am able to lower, at least the SA.
> 
> 3. Do you guys enable or disable RDB? and why?
> 
> I currently have my CPU OC to 54x3 53x5 52x8 per core 1.5v .16mohm AC/DC LL but when I run an AIDA64 test with hwinfo64 open I'm noticing the max voltage column is showing 1.634v. Must be hitting this only for microsecond because my idle and load voltages are much lower.
> 
> 4. What's up with the 134mv voltage overshoot? is this normal? (Adaptive oc btw).
> 
> Please answer any of them you can, sorry for multiple questions. It's been a while.


Nobody?

ok I will shorten it a bit, On Z590 is VCCIO MEM OC supposed to be set higher than the SA voltage in bios?

I will attempt to answer my own question from question #2. RDB disabled "must" require more SA/VCCIO mem oc voltage cause so far I am able to get my SA voltage down from
1.368v to 1.25v & remain fully stable (I chose to use SA LLC level 3 since its now pretty low, but its also stable at level 1 which is auto).
That is unless the newer bios allows for much lower sa/vccio2 voltages but I seriously doubt it.

Do you guys enable or disable RDB?

I wont even bother following up with the question about voltage overshoot. I have been chasing this answer for several months and asked a few different places but either nobody else is experiencing
the same temporary voltage overshoot on Z590 or they dont know the answer. Its very easy to test though. If you simply run an AIDA64 memory bench or stability test hwinfo will show the overshoot in the max voltage column, if anybody is interested in testing it out on their rig for me? (aida64 is free if you have an Asus motherboard)


----------



## SoloCamo

So trfc at 1023 seems to be ridiculously high. Is there any actual benefit to trying to lower this on my 4000 - cl18-22-22-42 2T setup?


----------



## Martin v r

SoloCamo said:


> So trfc at 1023 seems to be ridiculously high. Is there any actual benefit to trying to lower this on my 4000 - cl18-22-22-42 2T setup?


----------



## Dreamhackian

Int


PhoenixMDA said:


> It's so if you get 2C you are "out of the windows".
> Normaly it's so if you get 3E the vref must higher, test higher as 0.53.If you are to high you get also 2C.
> If it doesn’t help change Subtimings, you get also 3F that means your Roundtrip fail, to low voltage's for the rtl/iol, or not the best value's.
> But I think the easiest way is to raise up the vdimm because you get @vref 0.5 error 2C.
> 
> P.s.
> Your io/sa must be also enough, for an ever stable boot, it's with Auto Slope's most time some steps higher as a "lucky" stable boot at low io/sa.


Thank you for the reply. I still cannot get boot to boot stable. I think I have to dive into slopes again, which does not sound fun lmao. that and proper RTT testing. Interesting, I did not know 3F was RTL/IOLs. On this new sp104 I have, it has a very tough time with RTLs compared to my other chips at 4600. This one only finds channel A, and if I lock it so it trains channel B only, it doesn't boot. have to manual input both.


----------



## zebra_hun

Hi!
What is the correct procedure for setting up Slope? Should I reduce the Dram voltage and then test how fast the error comes from? Or VCCIO / SA voltage reduction? I haven't tried this before, now it's time.
Thanks the answers.


----------



## Taraquin

SoloCamo said:


> So trfc at 1023 seems to be ridiculously high. Is there any actual benefit to trying to lower this on my 4000 - cl18-22-22-42 2T setup?


Even with the worst RFC-performers like Hynix M-die you can run RFC at sub 700 on your setup. Lowering RFC by 3-400 will have a large impact. What ram dies do you have? Check thaiphoon burner, read spd. If you are lucky and have Hynix DJR you can probably go below 500.


----------



## Martin v r

IC​tRFC (ns)​Hynix 8Gb AFR​260 - 280​Hynix 8Gb CJR​260 - 280​8Gb DJR​260 - 280​Micron 8Gb Rev. E​280 - 310​Micron 16Gb Rev. B​290 - 310​Samsung 8Gb B-Die​120 - 180​Samsung 8Gb C-Die​300 - 340​


----------



## Enterprise24

Hi. I would like to ask about EK monarch compatibility with Samsung B-die. Will it cover an entire chip ? because I heard that some chip only about 2/3 of the chips were covered. I have TridentZ Neo F4-3600C14D-32GTZN.


----------



## SoloCamo

Taraquin said:


> Even with the worst RFC-performers like Hynix M-die you can run RFC at sub 700 on your setup. Lowering RFC by 3-400 will have a large impact. What ram dies do you have? Check thaiphoon burner, read spd. If you are lucky and have Hynix DJR you can probably go below 500.


Doesn't specify the series but it says Hynix as mfr. It's a low tier 32gb (2x 16gb) kit of T-Force Vulcan Z 3600 cl18-22-22-42 2T that I'm running at 4000 with the same timings just more volts. Tried 700 and it didn't post, lol. Went to 900 and it did fine but will tinker with it. I'm currently trying to get it stable with cl17 at the same clocks so I'll see.


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> So in hindsight, did I make a mistake going Z590 when I was planning on a 10900 from the start? Figured the newer platform would be better but it seems like Z490 was probably the better option and could have saved me a bit of $$.


Z590 is better than Z490 IIRC. You'll be fine. 11th Gen Intel functions a bit different from 10th Gen; that's what matters more.


Enterprise24 said:


> Hi. I would like to ask about EK monarch compatibility with Samsung B-die. Will it cover an entire chip ? because I heard that some chip only about 2/3 of the chips were covered. I have TridentZ Neo F4-3600C14D-32GTZN.


The heatspreader isn't as important as the thermal pad you use, as that is the heat transfer substrate. If you use a larger/thicker pad, you'll be able to cover all the chips.
If the heatspreader comes with pads that aren't that great (e.g. small, thin, etc), then that's another issue altogether. You can buy aftermarket pads instead.

You could probably save a bit a money just getting a set of cheap heatspreaders from FreezeMod on AliExpress. The pads seem to be sufficiently long.


----------



## Martin v r

need a little help with that setup, can not really get wise to it,have marked it with red


----------



## Ichirou

Martin v r said:


> need a little help with that setup, can not really get wise to it,have marked it with red


Those RTL/IOLs are messed up; deliberately safe boot the BIOS and retrain them. Rinse and repeat until there is some consistency.
Yours are set to 62/70/8/14 right now, which would equalize to 62/62/8/6 on the tighter end. It should ideally be 62/62/6/6.


----------



## SoloCamo

Welp, anything below CL18 and this kit just seems to absolutely hate it. Going to try to get TRFC down to a less horrible 800 from the current 1023.

Are there any good low profile B-Die that will fit under a NH-D15 (32gb minimum)? Thanks


----------



## The Pook

you can raise the front fan on a D15, no? Ripjaws apparently fits @ 42mm. Noctua says 32mm but pretty sure that's just the fan in the default position. 









G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





here's a build with Ripjaws V + dual fan config NH-D15


----------



## Ichirou

The Pook said:


> you can raise the front fan on a D15, no? Ripjaws apparently fits @ 42mm. Noctua says 32mm but pretty sure that's just the fan in the default position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here's a build with Ripjaws V + dual fan config NH-D15


Correct. I've used an NH-D15 for ages, and can confirm that the fans can be adjusted however you like in terms of height.

Even Noctua themselves calculated the NH-D15 fan efficiency based on a single fan configuration (in the middle), and the second fan helps by a few extra degrees.
So I cannot imagine losing more than 1~2C at the worst if the fan above the RAM is raised a bit further up. _It might look uglier, though._


SoloCamo said:


> Welp, anything below CL18 and this kit just seems to absolutely hate it. Going to try to get TRFC down to a less horrible 800 from the current 1023.
> 
> Are there any good low profile B-Die that will fit under a NH-D15 (32gb minimum)? Thanks


You'll be hard-pressed to find Samsung B-die kits that go above 32 GB that don't suck or are binned at much lower frequencies.

If you want high frequency, tight timing RAM at high capacities, you'll have to go with Micron B/E-die.


----------



## Martin v r

Ichirou said:


> Those RTL/IOLs are messed up; deliberately safe boot the BIOS and retrain them. Rinse and repeat until there is some consistency.
> Yours are set to 62/70/8/14 right now, which would equalize to 62/62/8/6 on the tighter end. It should ideally be 62/62/6/6.


thanks, I got a little messed up with it and it just would not work, so I just try to sack IO in the green field, and then move the bios even timimg down on all the other fields, fun as bios can sometimes create
but say many thanks


----------



## Ichirou

Martin v r said:


> thanks, I got a little messed up with it and it just would not work, so I just try to sack IO in the green field, and then move the bios even timimg down on all the other fields, fun as bios can sometimes create
> but say many thanks


Your RTL/IOL values are out-of-sync to begin with, so no matter what you do, they'll remain out-of-sync.

You need to force the BIOS to retrain the "tRTL" and "tIOL" values by either safe booting, or deliberately making the BIOS fail to POST with a bad timing and then reverting it back so it can POST again.


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> you can raise the front fan on a D15, no? Ripjaws apparently fits @ 42mm. Noctua says 32mm but pretty sure that's just the fan in the default position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here's a build with Ripjaws V + dual fan config NH-D15





Ichirou said:


> Correct. I've used an NH-D15 for ages, and can confirm that the fans can be adjusted however you like in terms of height.
> 
> Even Noctua themselves calculated the NH-D15 fan efficiency based on a single fan configuration (in the middle), and the second fan helps by a few extra degrees.
> So I cannot imagine losing more than 1~2C at the worst if the fan above the RAM is raised a bit further up. _It might look uglier, though._
> 
> You'll be hard-pressed to find Samsung B-die kits that go above 32 GB that don't suck or are binned at much lower frequencies.
> 
> If you want high frequency, tight timing RAM at high capacities, you'll have to go with Micron B/E-die.


Thanks, both of you. I tend to forget there is headroom to just raise it up. Judging by the costs of the build (went 10900 instead of 10900k as it was a lot cheaper at the time) and going with cheap ram in the first place I'm probably going to just have to eventually bite the bullet. Realistically even going to the best DDR4 possible with the best possible OC on record isn't going to do much for me in the games I play at 4k either.

Can't get 4133 stable with the same timings I can pull with 4000. So for a dirt cheap 32gb kit getting +400mhz and keeping the timings the same isn't too bad I suppose.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool
Will test out the MSI Edge by today, hopefully. Everything's already moved over from the ASUS Strix and just pending initial boot. LGA1700 bracket from Noctua arrived in 18 days (with tracking, oddly enough).

I've already more or less found the tightest timings I could find on the GALAX kit, so it's just a matter of testing higher frequencies at this point. Will report back.


----------



## davidm71

Hi guys,

Got a Z390-M Gaming Gigabyte board with a 9700k cpu trying to get memory stable with a 4x8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum rgb kit at 14-14-14-32 timings and 1.35 volts. XMP settings were not stable. So set Vccio/sa to 1.1/1.2 volts with lax 22 cas timings the motherboard autoconfigured. Seems stable playing Halo Infinite but before total lockup and crash n burn. Any other settings worth messing with? Have the cpu on Auto as far as frequencies and voltage. The cpu when I bought it was someone's return item at Microcenter so guessing wasn't a good overclocker for whoever who returned it.

Thanks


----------



## Ichirou

davidm71 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Got a Z390-M Gaming Gigabyte board with a 9700k cpu trying to get memory stable with a 4x8gb Corsair Dominator Platinum rgb kit at 14-14-14-32 timings and 1.35 volts. XMP settings were not stable. So set Vccio/sa to 1.1/1.2 volts with lax 22 cas timings the motherboard autoconfigured. Seems stable playing Halo Infinite but before total lockup and crash n burn. Any other settings worth messing with? Have the cpu on Auto as far as frequencies and voltage. The cpu when I bought it was someone's return item at Microcenter so guessing wasn't a good overclocker for whoever who returned it.
> 
> Thanks


What are the BSODs you get? What frequency RAM? Try raising VCCSA/VCCIO to 1.20-1.25V.


----------



## davidm71

Just a lockup playing Halo Infinite. I know I should run Hcl Memtest. Just have zero time these days. Anyhow the board is a Gigabyte Z390M Gaming. Had some Corsair Dominator Platinum cas 14 4x8 gb 3200 mhz modules available. Think the tight timings were too stressful. Trying 1.1/1.2 vccio/vccsa. 1.3 vcore 4.8ghz 9700k. Thanks.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool
MSI's BIOS definitely involves a bit of a learning process, but overall I feel optimistic about it.
It's different from ASUS's and was definitely built with a "run first, correct later" kind of design to it, meaning pretty much any settings will boot to desktop just fine.
Hell, I even tried the 5,000 MHz XMP profile, and it managed to boot to desktop.

My only complaint so far is that one of the M.2 heatsink bars had poor quality control, as one of the stands came right out of the board.
Nothing that some super glue can't fix, but I'll bother with that later.
Another issue I'm having is that I can't stay on the desktop more than two seconds before the PC shuts off; I think Windows needs to be reinstalled due to the new motherboard.
I'll report back once I can actually get onto the desktop without crashing even on default JEDEC.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool
Okay, this is actually insane. The MSI Edge just... boots to desktop on 5,000 CL19 XMP without any difficulty at all. Doesn't crash in AIDA64 so far.
Coming from trying so hard to overclock on the ASUS Strix, I've only been running this board for like 10 minutes tops and I feel like I have so much more headroom to work with.
I will report back with further findings as I start testing the limits of Gear 1, and also see whether this XMP profile is stable or not.


----------



## Taraquin

Anyone with locked CPUs been able to change SA voltage? Please let me know


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool
Some oddities so far; on the latest "beta" BIOS and apparently it takes a little tweaking in order to properly disable the E-cores. Also, with E-cores enabled, PC can get confused with properly allocating workloads, so you might end up with the E-cores on 100% and P-cores at 0%, causing the PC to be really slow, lol.

In terms of Gear 1 overclocking, I'm also getting oddities with trying to push over 4,200 MHz, so it's quite probable that it's either my IMC or RAM itself, and not the board. However, I am noticing significantly better stability with 4,000 at CL13 compared to on the Strix.

Will continue doing more analysis.


----------



## Koekieezz

Is this true? i found it on reddit. im confused which one is better, universal, 1usmusv3, extreme1, or absolutnew. maybe @anta777could help?


----------



## Koekieezz

Taraquin said:


> Anyone with locked CPUs been able to change SA voltage? Please let me know


umm, what system are you referring here? my friend's 10105F on B560M Pro4 and 11400F on B560M Pro VDH Max could do it. Both VCCSA/IO, locked cpus.


----------



## Taraquin

Koekieezz said:


> umm, what system are you referring here? my friend's 10105F on B560M Pro4 and 11400F on B560M Pro VDH Max could do it. Both VCCSA/IO, locked cpus.


Sorry, meant for Alder lake. I knowvSA can be changed on B560 and locked CPU, but B660/Z690 and locked SA seems to be locked aswell sub 0.95V.


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> View attachment 2545991
> 
> Is this true? i found it on reddit. im confused which one is better, universal, 1usmusv3, extreme1, or absolutnew. maybe @anta777could help?


1usmus is great for error diagnosis; it has the most documentation possible.
In my opinion, it is better to do 1usmus, y-cruncher, and then real-world tests with what you usually run on the PC. If it's stable, it's stable.
anta777 profiles are nice, but... They can be too punishing sometimes, meaning you might be limiting overclocking potential.

@bscool
In other news, 5,000 MHz XMP is a little unstable, but at least it can do some tests and boot to desktop and idle just fine on G2, when the Strix couldn't boot at all no matter what. 4,000 MHz CL13 G1 is overall more "consistent" in terms of its errors? A lot more clearer and not overly fussy, but still involves some work.

So overall, I'd say that the MSI Edge is a bit better, but not significantly. Again, I haven't really been able to boot higher frequencies on G1 with this CPU and/or RAM.

Also, on the Edge, you can boot VDDQ above the soft cap of 1.60V that the Strix imposes. So you can boot a real higher VDDQ in HWInfo with the Edge than one that gets rounded down by the Strix.


----------



## Koekieezz

Taraquin said:


> but B660/Z690 and locked SA seems to be locked aswell sub 0.95V.


i've just read this news everywhere... now im getting dizzy should i get 12100F + B660M or a 10100/10105 F + B560M Board? 12100F does have the good performance, but i wanted to also run 3600/3800 with adjusting the vccsa/io. this is sad, i hope there is an update to unlock them. man i started to feel my ddr4 kit i just bought are going to be useless :"D


----------



## Taraquin

Koekieezz said:


> i've just read this news everywhere... now im getting dizzy should i get 12100F + B660M or a 10100/10105 F + B560M Board? 12100F does have the good performance, but i wanted to also run 3600/3800 with adjusting the vccsa/io. this is sad, i hope there is an update to unlock them. man i started to feel my ddr4 kit i just bought are going to be useless :"D


I can get 3600 working, but above is unstable, talked to other who maxed out at 3400 to 3500. Hopefully bios will fix it. 12100f+3500ram will be faster than 10100f+4000+ram will be slower, but also cheaper since B560 costs 40-50usd less than B660.


----------



## Koekieezz

Taraquin said:


> I can get 3600 working


what are the timings? could you post it here?


----------



## Taraquin

Koekieezz said:


> what are the timings? could you post it here?





Koekieezz said:


> what are the timings? could you post it here?


This is with some cheap Micron rev E 2x8. Aida reads memory bus wrong btw.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> @bscool
> In other news, *5,000 MHz XMP is a little unstable*, but at least it can do some tests and boot to desktop and idle just fine on G2, when the Strix couldn't boot at all no matter what. 4,000 MHz CL13 G1 is overall more "consistent" in terms of its errors? A lot more clearer and not overly fussy, but still involves some work.
> 
> So overall, I'd say that the MSI Edge is a bit better, but not significantly. Again, I haven't really been able to boot higher frequencies on G1 with this CPU and/or RAM.
> 
> Also, on the Edge, you can boot VDDQ above the soft cap of 1.60V that the Strix imposes. So you can boot a real higher VDDQ in HWInfo with the Edge than one that gets rounded down by the Strix.


A little unstable is that like a little pregnant?


----------



## Dreamhackian

zebra_hun said:


> Hi!
> What is the correct procedure for setting up Slope? Should I reduce the Dram voltage and then test how fast the error comes from? Or VCCIO / SA voltage reduction? I haven't tried this before, now it's time.
> Thanks the answers.


I also tried it before and it did not work too well. I was going to try it again on my new chip


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool
As in, on default XMP, it gets errors in TM5. So probably needs some voltage tweaking.

Currently I'm trying to stabilize a true 4,000 CL13 Gear 1 on this MSI board. The previous one I had for the ASUS Strix was just a post-load change, so not on boot and thus not entirely legit.
I'm very close to stabilizing it right now, but I have to contend with very, *very *miniscule voltage tweaks. Again, much easier on the Edge than on the Strix for CL13. y-cruncher is fine; just TM5 gives a few errors.

Also, I can't set tRRD_S 3 (and tFAW 12) like I could on the Strix, so that's a bummer. BIOS allows a minimum of 4. So lost performance there.


----------



## Dreamhackian

Anyone have an idea on why my z490 apex is acting ****y with new CPU? Bought sp104, does 4533c16 tm5 stable at 1.28io/1.28 sa, but it trains my CHB RTLs horribly. have to lock them in. old chip would train no problem. now itll train 62/69/8/14, and if i lock CHA and let CHB retrain, it fails to boot. need to lock the whole thing? should i try a newer bios? on 1003.


----------



## Ichirou

Dreamhackian said:


> Anyone have an idea on why my z490 apex is acting ****y with new CPU? Bought sp104, does 4533c16 tm5 stable at 1.28io/1.28 sa, but it trains my CHB RTLs horribly. have to lock them in. old chip would train no problem. now itll train 62/69/8/14, and if i lock CHA and let CHB retrain, it fails to boot. need to lock the whole thing? should i try a newer bios? on 1003.


RTLs are always finnicky to begin with. You have to be the one that manually trains them cleanly before locking them in.
Also, set proper RTTs as well, as that'll improve RTL training. Try 80-48-34 for starters. Works for most Samsung B-die kits.


----------



## Dreamhackian

Ichirou said:


> RTLs are always finnicky to begin with. You have to be the one that manually trains them cleanly before locking them in.
> Also, set proper RTTs as well, as that'll improve RTL training. Try 80-48-34 for starters. Works for most Samsung B-die kits.


Maybe my CHB that doesn't train well needs differnet skew from CHA? CHA trained at 80/48/40, maybe I need 48/34 or 48/48 for CHB


----------



## Ichirou

Dreamhackian said:


> Maybe my CHB that doesn't train well needs differnet skew from CHA? CHA trained at 80/48/40, maybe I need 48/34 or 48/48 for CHB


Should never be the case if it's the same kit (batch). I've had the best luck with 80-48-34 or 80-48-0 at times, but never more.
Both on Samsung B-die and on Micron B-die.

What you should probably try to do is a clean boot. Or a failed one with a bad timing, and then revert and retrain the RTLs from scratch.

Also, the memory slots themselves can have different RTLs. So it might not necessarily be your CPU or RAM per se.
62/69 and 8/14 translates to 62/62 and 8/7 when tightened, which is only one apart. I have that happen on my ASUS Z390 between the two channels in a 4x16 GB config.
So if anything, what you want to do is get them reverted to 69/69, and then gradually pull them down to 62/62.


----------



## ViTosS

Any idea why I need EXACTLY 1.31v IO and nothing less to train at 4400CL16 while at 4533CL16 or 4600CL17 I can train right off with 1.25v IO? Also another thing, when I train 1.31v IO with 4400CL16 I can reduce later IO to 1.20v and set No Training as Memory Fast Boot and I'm still able to boot normally and also pass stress tests but eventually I will fail after many days of booting/rebooting and that doesn't happen if I use 1.31v IO?


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> Any idea why I need EXACTLY 1.31v IO and nothing less to train at 4400CL16 while at 4533CL16 or 4600CL17 I can train right off with 1.25v IO? Also another thing, when I train 1.31v IO with 4400CL16 I can reduce later IO to 1.20v and set No Training as Memory Fast Boot and I'm still able to boot normally and also pass stress tests but eventually I will fail after many days of booting/rebooting and that doesn't happen if I use 1.31v IO?


Your RTT skews are broken. You'll need to retrain those, not your VCCIO.


----------



## YaqY

Ichirou said:


> Your RTT skews are broken. You'll need to retrain those, not your VCCIO.


I don’t think you can narrow it down to “rtt skews”, rtts don’t change on auto fyi.


----------



## Koekieezz

Taraquin said:


> This is with some cheap Micron rev E 2x8. Aida reads memory bus wrong btw.
> View attachment 2546021
> 
> View attachment 2546022


wow.. what.. read is on 59K, that's past 3600mhz theoritical speed (57k).. i wonder if you do have a friend that use comet lake like 10400f 10100f, and you want to test your timings on that platform, will it decrease that much? This is my results on my friends 9600K 3600 CL16 with quick tight subtimings:









I Have a feeling if i went on 10100F (in case i gave up on 12100 path because SA/IOis locked) it wont differ that much since it's another skylake refresh 

Im getting more confused with these choice, wether to go with 10100f or keep 12100f path, since i want this to be one time upgrade. not gaming that much butit's good to see the performance. i really want to aim for 3800mhz max with my custom timings and some little voltage adjustments. this is sad :"

My ram is Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 CL17, using Hynix CJR.


----------



## Taraquin

Koekieezz said:


> wow.. what.. read is on 59K, that's past 3600mhz theoritical speed (57k).. i wonder if you do have a friend that use comet lake like 10400f 10100f, and you want to test your timings on that platform, will it decrease that much? This is my results on my friends 9600K 3600 CL16 with quick tight subtimings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I Have a feeling if i went on 10100F (in case i gave up on 12100 path because SA/IOis locked) it wont differ that much since it's another skylake refresh
> 
> Im getting more confused with these choice, wether to go with 10100f or keep 12100f path, since i want this to be one time upgrade. not gaming that much butit's good to see the performance. i really want to aim for 3800mhz max with my custom timings and some little voltage adjustments. this is sad :"
> 
> My ram is Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 CL17, using Hynix CJR.


Aida is crap, it says my ramspeed is 7488 and bus 3744, it has poor alder lake support. Latency is somewhat accurate. 

Accordning to TPU a 12100 is about 20% faster in games vs 10100 if both run 3200cl16. Unless they unlock SA volt in future bioses you are most likely stuck at 3400 to 3733 depending on luck. A 10100+B560 can do anywhere from 3800 to 4600 depending on MB and IMC bin.

Since you must relax timings when running ram faster going from 12100+3600cl16 tight vs 10100+3800cl16/17 I bet the 12100 would still be 15% faster. If you had B-die 10100 would be more interesting. Where I live 12100F+cheap B660 costs 290usd, while 10100F+cheap B560 costs 200usd. I would go 12100F if I were you, or another option is 10400F+cheap B560 which costs 260usd where I live, that is the best bang for bucks in my opinion.


----------



## Ichirou

YaqY said:


> I don’t think you can narrow it down to “rtt skews”, rtts don’t change on auto fyi.


RTTs retrain on every failed boot or system crash relating to the RAM, doesn't matter what motherboard. A lot of RTT values can boot to desktop but are not necessarily stable. Sometimes if the BIOS can't train them properly, it'll just fail to POST even if the settings you put in before were perfectly stable.

I've pushed my Micron RAM kit to the absolute brink that it literally won't be 100% stable without exactly one particular RTT combination, so I know this first-hand. Very confident that it's the RTTs acting up. I've noticed similar behaviour for Samsung, although it is a little flexible with its RTTs. But it will still throw errors in TM5 if it's not perfectly correct.


----------



## Dreamhackian

Anyone ever tweak ODT WRITE/READ DELAY/DURATION?


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> RTTs retrain on every failed boot or system crash relating to the RAM, doesn't matter what motherboard. A lot of RTT values can boot to desktop but are not necessarily stable. Sometimes if the BIOS can't train them properly, it'll just fail to POST even if the settings you put in before were perfectly stable.
> 
> I've pushed my Micron RAM kit to the absolute brink that it literally won't be 100% stable without exactly one particular RTT combination, so I know this first-hand. Very confident that it's the RTTs acting up. I've noticed similar behaviour for Samsung, although it is a little flexible with its RTTs. But it will still throw errors in TM5 if it's not perfectly correct.


By RTT Skews you mean those values like WTT, PARK and NOM 80-48-0 and these settings? If so, I didn't test changing them, what intrigues me is the fact that I need 1.31v IO for 4400CL16 to train and for other RAM OC more agressive than that I can train with 1.25v and lower, also another mystery is the fact I need 1.31v IO to train 4400CL16 but if I change Memory Fast Boot to No Training and them going back and set 1.20v IO or even lower I can still boot infinitely times and pass stress tests a lot but suddently after a couple days I lose the stability...


----------



## sixty9sublime

ViTosS said:


> By RTT Skews you mean those values like WTT, PARK and NOM 80-48-0 and these settings? If so, I didn't test changing them, what intrigues me is the fact that I need 1.31v IO for 4400CL16 to train and for other RAM OC more agressive than that I can train with 1.25v and lower, also another mystery is the fact I need 1.31v IO to train 4400CL16 but if I change Memory Fast Boot to No Training and them going back and set 1.20v IO or even lower I can still boot infinitely times and pass stress tests a lot but suddently after a couple days I lose the stability...


You do realize any changes made after turning on the "No Training" option would not apply, right?

Not sure why this concept is so tough to understand for some people lol


----------



## ViTosS

sixty9sublime said:


> You do realize any changes made after turning on the "No Training" option would not apply, right?
> 
> Not sure why this concept is so tough to understand for some people lol


I know, I'm talking about changing VCCIO or VCCSA, No Training doesn't affect that, but at the same time 1.31v IO to train and after that changing to No Training and then 1.20v IO I can boot infinitely and pass stress tests for some time.


----------



## YaqY

Ichirou said:


> RTTs retrain on every failed boot or system crash relating to the RAM, doesn't matter what motherboard. A lot of RTT values can boot to desktop but are not necessarily stable. Sometimes if the BIOS can't train them properly, it'll just fail to POST even if the settings you put in before were perfectly stable.
> 
> I've pushed my Micron RAM kit to the absolute brink that it literally won't be 100% stable without exactly one particular RTT combination, so I know this first-hand. Very confident that it's the RTTs acting up. I've noticed similar behaviour for Samsung, although it is a little flexible with its RTTs. But it will still throw errors in TM5 if it's not perfectly correct.


That’s not how it works lol, by RTTS I assume you mean WR, Park and Nom, and those don’t change boot to boot, just some values are more stable. It can help having a correct combo for more consistent training but on auto they stay the same. Can also confirm with Asus tool…


----------



## ViTosS

Sometimes I think my mobo is kinda faulty, some weird things happens, like Clearing CMOS and then booting PC the mobo get stuck at A1 post-code, and then I have to Clear CMOS one more time or try to boot again and it just boots without problem, sometimes BIOS freeze when saving changes and doesn't reboot...


----------



## ViTosS

YaqY said:


> That’s not how it works lol, by RTTS I assume you mean WR, Park and Nom, and those don’t change boot to boot, just some values are more stable. It can help having a correct combo for more consistent training but on auto they stay the same. Can also confirm with Asus tool…


I tried countless times using the most common presets like:

80-48-34
80-40-40
80-48-40
80-48-0
80-40-34

No change at all in being stable at a non stable setting or even reduce the necessary voltages for the same stable profile from AUTO RTT Skews...


----------



## Ichirou

YaqY said:


> That’s not how it works lol, by RTTS I assume you mean WR, Park and Nom, and those don’t change boot to boot, just some values are more stable. It can help having a correct combo for more consistent training but on auto they stay the same. Can also confirm with Asus tool…


That's what I meant; they change when there is a failed boot or crash. And in @ViTosS 's case, that sounds like what is happening.
If the RTTs are trained to a bad value, they can prevent POSTing even on stable settings.

@ViTosS Try 80-48-34. That's a more common stable setting for Samsung B-die.
Also, try doing a cold boot by unplugging the PC for a good few minutes to flush out any errors in the RAM.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> That's what I meant; they change when there is a failed boot or crash. And in @ViTosS 's case, that sounds like what is happening.
> If the RTTs are trained to a bad value, they can prevent POSTing even on stable settings.
> 
> @ViTosS Try 80-48-34. That's a more common stable setting for Samsung B-die.
> Also, try doing a cold boot by unplugging the PC for a good few minutes to flush out any errors in the RAM.


But how do you explain that thing I said, 1.31v IO for the first time training and then I can reduce to 1.20v (after setting RAM to No Training) and being able to boot and pass TM5? Shouldn't be impossible to even boot with 1.20v even if I disabled No Training? Because it needs 1.31v to train, and why that doesn't happen on more agressive RAM OC like 4600CL17 or 4533CL16? (Not saying that I'm stable on these more agressive, just that I can train with 1.25v IO and lower)

I'm investigating further, but SEEMS that the cause of the lost stability in the RAM OC after many reboots and cold boots is the fact that I changed IO to 1.20v instead lefting 1.31v the value that it asks to be trained the first time, because until now (like 1 week passed) I rebooted and cold booted a lot and still runs TM5 stable, but need to wait like 1 month or more to confirm that 100%.


----------



## Salve1412

YaqY said:


> That’s not how it works lol, by RTTS I assume you mean WR, Park and Nom, and those don’t change boot to boot, just some values are more stable. It can help having a correct combo for more consistent training but on auto they stay the same. Can also confirm with Asus tool…


Sorry to intrude, does the ASUS tool show RTTs for 10th gen Cpus on Z490 Mobos too? I thought it only did that for 11th gen/Z590 (unless I'm looking for them in the wrong place).


----------



## ViTosS

Also my RTT Skews never changed every boot and every train, always 80-240-0 (or 80-0-240, don't remember the exactly order). Unless you are saying they change and doesn't report in the BIOS menu they changed to whatesoever.


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> But how do you explain that thing I said, 1.31v IO for the first time training and then I can reduce to 1.20v (after setting RAM to No Training) and being able to boot and pass TM5? Shouldn't be impossible to even boot with 1.20v even if I disabled No Training? Because it needs 1.31v to train, and why that doesn't happen on more agressive RAM OC like 4600CL17 or 4533CL16? (Not saying that I'm stable on these more agressive, just that I can train with 1.25v IO and lower)
> 
> I'm investigating further, but SEEMS that the cause of the lost stability in the RAM OC after many reboots and cold boots is the fact that I changed IO to 1.20v instead lefting 1.31v the value that it asks to be trained the first time, because until now (like 1 week passed) I rebooted and cold booted a lot and still runs TM5 stable, but need to wait like 1 month or more to confirm that 100%.


Well that's because you skipped training.
The thing about VCCSA and VCCIO is that errors don't always show in TM5; they're more about CPU IMC stability over the longer run and on load.
Unless they are dangerously low, the PC won't always crash instantly.

I wouldn't wholeheartedly trust 1.20V VCCIO as being stable just yet. Do some CPU stability tests, not RAM.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> Well that's because you skipped training.
> The thing about VCCSA and VCCIO is that errors don't always show in TM5; they're more about CPU IMC stability over the longer run and on load.
> Unless they are dangerously low, the PC won't always crash instantly.
> 
> I wouldn't wholeheartedly trust 1.20V VCCIO as being stable just yet. Do some CPU stability tests, not RAM.


And also if my IMC really needs 1.31v fu***** IO to boot and be stable in 2x8GB for 4400CL16 I really lost the lottery in the voltage scenario for IMC, also my SA is stable with 1.25v and maybe even lower lol, IO higher than SA never seen that in my life...

Regarding CPU stability tests, I passed 5.0Ghz and 4.9Ghz cache (with 1.20v IO and 1.25v SA) the following: Aida64 (all options marked and also only cache marked) 2h, Realbench 2.56 4h, Prime95 112k min max custom FFT size and AVX disabled (a hint from Falkentyne long time ago in OC Discord) 2h. The CPU is completely stable at those settings in theses stress tests.

Just one last question (I don't know if I understood correctly or if you responded to that), why I can train agressive RAM OC with 1.25v and needing 1.31v IO to train less agressive frequency like 4400CL16?

But thanks I will try your setting of RTT Skews and see if I can train with lower than 1.31v, that's the only thing I didn't try yet...


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> And also if my IMC really needs 1.31v fu***** IO to boot and be stable in 2x8GB for 4400CL16 I really lost the lottery in the voltage scenario for IMC, also my SA is stable with 1.25v and maybe even lower lol, IO higher than SA never seen that in my life...
> 
> Regarding CPU stability tests, I passed 5.0Ghz and 4.9Ghz cache (with 1.20v IO and 1.25v SA) the following: Aida64 (all options marked and also only cache marked) 2h, Realbench 2.56 4h, Prime95 112k min max custom FFT size and AVX disabled (a hint from Falkentyne long time ago in OC Discord) 2h. The CPU is completely stable at those settings in theses stress tests.
> 
> Just one last question (I don't know if I understood correctly or if you responded to that), why I can train agressive RAM OC with 1.25v and needing 1.31v IO to train less agressive frequency like 4400CL16?
> 
> But thanks I will try your setting of RTT Skews and see if I can train with lower than 1.31v, that's the only thing I didn't try yet...


Try Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool for 3-4 runs in a row (or just set it to loop for 15~20 minutes), and Time Spy Extreme for a few runs in a row (or loop it). y-cruncher and OCCT are useful as well.
I wouldn't rule out AVX unless you are running an offset. More and more programs use AVX nowadays.

VCCSA isn't really all that related to VCCIO; it's more related to frequency if anything. You need more VCCSA if you run at a higher frequency. Less if lower.
VCCIO is more about IMC stability as a whole and has a sweet spot effect.


----------



## YaqY

Salve1412 said:


> Sorry to intrude, does the ASUS tool show RTTs for 10th gen Cpus on Z490 Mobos too? I thought it only did that for 11th gen/Z590 (unless I'm looking for them in the wrong place).


From what I remember Asus tool did.


----------



## YaqY

Ichirou said:


> Well that's because you skipped training.
> The thing about VCCSA and VCCIO is that errors don't always show in TM5; they're more about CPU IMC stability over the longer run and on load.
> Unless they are dangerously low, the PC won't always crash instantly.
> 
> I wouldn't wholeheartedly trust 1.20V VCCIO as being stable just yet. Do some CPU stability tests, not RAM.


I’m pretty sure he’s on Msi so they are shown in bios and the same every boot, so it wouldn’t be an rtt issue rather some timing issue etc.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> Try Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool for 3-4 runs in a row (or just set it to loop for 15~20 minutes), and Time Spy Extreme for a few runs in a row (or loop it). y-cruncher and OCCT are useful as well.
> I wouldn't rule out AVX unless you are running an offset. More and more programs use AVX nowadays.
> 
> VCCSA isn't really all that related to VCCIO; it's more related to frequency if anything. You need more VCCSA if you run at a higher frequency. Less if lower.
> VCCIO is more about IMC stability as a whole and has a sweet spot effect.


Thing is that I can't run anything with AVX Prime95 I think depending on the stress test mode, heard it can easily put your CPU to 90c+ celsius, isn't Realbench 2.56 and Aida64 enough? Also the errors happens in TM5 and I don't think TM5 stress CPU and cache enough to make the errors of the TM5 being caused of the CPU unstable and not from the RAM itself, it can only be something related to RAM or either IO/SA related to RAM and not CPU OC isolated.


----------



## ViTosS

YaqY said:


> I’m pretty sure he’s on Msi so they are shown in bios and the same every boot, so it wouldn’t be an rtt issue rather some timing issue etc.


Yes I am, I will post my complete timing list below:

The screenshot is when I passed TM5 with 1.20v IO BIOS and 1.25v SA BIOS set, noticed the RAM really hot (making sure I won't have unstable problem from heat), that is with RTT Skews always on AUTO and always at the same value (80-0-240) and also the RTL/IOLs I can train for the same 4400CL16, 4533CL16 and 4600CL17 (didn't test further OCs).


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> Thing is that I can't run anything with AVX Prime95 I think depending on the stress test mode, heard it can easily put your CPU to 90c+ celsius, isn't Realbench 2.56 and Aida64 enough? Also the errors happens in TM5 and I don't think TM5 stress CPU and cache enough to make the errors of the TM5 being caused of the CPU unstable and not from the RAM itself, it can only be something related to RAM or either IO/SA related to RAM and not CPU OC isolated.


If you never stress the CPU properly, you will never be 100% stable. That means you gotta test AVX as well. And if you are crashing because of AVX loads, then you need to dial things down or set an AVX offset. Raising IMC voltages can help stabilize higher temperature loads.

TM5 is a RAM stress tester, not a CPU stress tester. VCCSA and VCCIO are what stabilize the IMC, which is related to the CPU.
You can probably get away with a lower SA/IO if you are strictly testing the RAM and not the CPU.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> If you never stress the CPU properly, you will never be 100% stable. That means you gotta test AVX as well. And if you are crashing because of AVX loads, then you need to dial things down or set an AVX offset. Raising IMC voltages can help stabilize higher temperature loads.
> 
> TM5 is a RAM stress tester, not a CPU stress tester. VCCSA and VCCIO are what stabilize the IMC, which is related to the CPU.


But the errors after many days comes from TM5 (in that situation I told you, training 1.31v and changing after to 1.20v IO), so you are basically saying I can be stable in TM5 if I just put CPU OC back to stock frequency? I really don't think the errors and lost of stability are from my CPU being unstable... But in a more cold day I will try Prime95 to it's extreme, what do you recommend to run the preset in Prime95 with AVX and all that? How can I also test my CPU OC IMC and not test my RAM in the combo? I only know Prime95 112k FFT's and Aida64 cache stress test.


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> But the errors after many days comes from TM5 (in that situation I told you, training 1.31v and changing after to 1.20v IO), so you are basically saying I can be stable in TM5 if I just put CPU OC back to stock frequency? I really don't think the errors and lost of stability are from my CPU being unstable... But in a more cold day I will try Prime95 to it's extreme, what do you recommend to run the preset in Prime95 with AVX and all that? How can I also test my CPU OC IMC and not test my RAM in the combo? I only know Prime95 112k FFT's and Aida64 cache stress test.


The cache (ring/uncore) is more important than the core clock for the purpose of RAM overclocking. Cap it off at like, 30x multiplier, and you may see a difference in terms of the errors you get in TM5 if they are truly IMC-related. If not, then they are more likely from the RAM randomly overheating or something if you've passed TM5 many times already.

But the point I'm trying to bring across is that IMC-related issues don't always happen in the short-term. They're more likely to happen when the CPU is on load. But, if you never push the CPU to its limits, you will never be able to know for sure. And then maybe one day your CPU hits 100% load with 90C+ in some random new game or software you use, and the PC crashes because the IMC gave out.

Just try running the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool a few times in a row, or loop it indefinitely. It's excellent in my experience and has caught a lot of problems that other stress tests do not. Each run is only a few minutes long, so you'd run it at least a few times. Prime95 is rather outdated and isn't all that great.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> The cache (ring/uncore) is more important than the core clock for the purpose of RAM overclocking. Cap it off at like, 30x multiplier, and you may see a difference in terms of the errors you get in TM5 if they are truly IMC-related. If not, then they are more likely from the RAM randomly overheating or something if you've passed TM5 many times already.
> 
> But the point I'm trying to bring across is that IMC-related issues don't always happen in the short-term. They're more likely to happen when the CPU is on load. But, if you never push the CPU to its limits, you will never be able to know for sure. And then maybe one day your CPU hits 100% load with 90C+ in some random new game or software you use, and the PC crashes because the IMC gave out.
> 
> Just try running the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool a few times in a row, or loop it indefinitely. It's excellent in my experience and has caught a lot of problems that other stress tests do not. Each run is only a few minutes long, so you'd run it at least a few times. Prime95 is rather outdated and isn't all that great.


I know Prime95 is outdated, but just for the sake of it, what is the heavyest preset to run using AVX?

Also I ran IPDT after changing IO back to 1.20v, check it out:


----------



## mouacyk

ViTosS said:


> I know Prime95 is outdated, but just for the sake of it, what is the heavyest preset to run using AVX?
> 
> Also I ran IPDT after changing IO back to 1.20v, check it out:


Recommend y-cruncher. I get about 30W more than p95.


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> I know Prime95 is outdated, but just for the sake of it, what is the heavyest preset to run using AVX?
> 
> Also I ran IPDT after changing IO back to 1.20v, check it out:


If you've run IPDT a few times, then you should be fine. Don't need to retest Prime95. Can run y-cruncher as previously mentioned for an extra confirmation.
BIOS is probably just failing to boot with 1.20V VCCIO. Don't think you can do much about that. They're not always perfect.
Just have whatever software it is you're using set to automatically apply the VCCIO change upon each boot.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> If you've run IPDT a few times, then you should be fine. Don't need to retest Prime95. Can run y-cruncher as previously mentioned for an extra confirmation.
> BIOS is probably just failing to boot with 1.20V VCCIO. Don't think you can do much about that. They're not always perfect.
> Just have whatever software it is you're using set to automatically apply the VCCIO change upon each boot.


So I was testing Prime95 and came to some interesting results, I will list what I've done:

Prime95 Large FFT (with AVX), (1.280v CPU, 1.20v IO and 1.25v SA), after 8 minutes my screen froze, no BSOD, couldn't move the mouse, hard reset.

Increased SA to 1.30v and kept IO at 1.20v, one CPU thread crashed, so failed again but this time without freezing
Rebooted and increased IO to 1.31v, had the same problem from first time, screen froze without BSOD, so the only responsable could be CPU vcore
Raised vcore from 1.280v to 1.300v >> passed 30 minutes of Prime95 Large FFT with AVX (it says this mode stress more the RAM and IMC)

So I went to try Small FFT with AVX (maximum heat, consumption etc for CPU)

1.300v CPU from before I BSOD watchdog clock timeout
Raised to 1.320v and another thread crashed
Finally raised to 1.340v and was able to pass (at least 15min), 341w CPU power

So I went back to Large FFT with the same 1.340v and reduced back IO and SA to 1.20v and 1.25v, and passed 30 minutes. So my conclusion at least for Prime95 was that the errors where purely CPU vcore and not IO or SA voltages, but I will now test the Small FFT option again with the same 1.340v CPU and 1.20v and 1.25v SA, also I wasn't able to boot and first train RAM with 1.20v IO, still the same 1.31v needed.

Large FFT










Small FFT


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> Just have whatever software it is you're using set to automatically apply the VCCIO change upon each boot.


I was looking for some option in BIOS to only use 1.31v IO to boot and post, like boot voltages something like that, but only found for DRAM, maybe I could get away with the errors if I could set the BIOS to boost IO to 1.31v while training and then going back to 1.20v after posted and boot to OS.


----------



## Koekieezz

Taraquin said:


> Aida is crap, it says my ramspeed is 7488 and bus 3744, it has poor alder lake support. Latency is somewhat accurate.
> 
> Accordning to TPU a 12100 is about 20% faster in games vs 10100 if both run 3200cl16. Unless they unlock SA volt in future bioses you are most likely stuck at 3400 to 3733 depending on luck. A 10100+B560 can do anywhere from 3800 to 4600 depending on MB and IMC bin.
> 
> Since you must relax timings when running ram faster going from 12100+3600cl16 tight vs 10100+3800cl16/17 I bet the 12100 would still be 15% faster. If you had B-die 10100 would be more interesting. Where I live 12100F+cheap B660 costs 290usd, while 10100F+cheap B560 costs 200usd. I would go 12100F if I were you, or another option is 10400F+cheap B560 which costs 260usd where I live, that is the best bang for bucks in my opinion.


A 10105F + cheap B560M costs aaround 157usd if converted in my country, while 12100F + B660M-K D4 (the only cheapest available option) costs around 270usd if converted. all i want to know is the read/write in 4c8t comet lake 3600 c16, since i cant find any online. i will go 10105F for now, i remember i needed some extra money or college stuff, so once 12100F is cheaper, B660M is cheaper, AAND SA/IO voltage unlocked in non K skus, i would definitely go that.


----------



## v0lcano

Hello,

It's been days since I first tried to get my RAM (Corsair LPX Vengeance 3000Mhz 2x8) running at its advertised speed but no luck. This is really getting on my nerves now. I haven't got any experience in RAM settings whatsoever. Anyway, I have read a few guides but I saw none who apply to my kind of configuration.
XMP and all auto settings seem not to work. The system is not stable.

So I set the DRAM voltage at 1.35, System Agent Voltage 1.0 and VCCIO2 @ 1.05. And obviously the right timings. It passed a 8h Memtest, but made my PC reboot INSTANTLY on Realbench. Any ideas why ?
Moreover, what is the safe range for IO2 and SA on Z590 Aorus Elite AX + i7-11700K (stock) for this configuration ?

Thank you.


----------



## Ichirou

v0lcano said:


> Hello,
> 
> It's been days since I first tried to get my RAM (Corsair LPX Vengeance 3000Mhz 2x8) running at its advertised speed but no luck. This is really getting on my nerves now. I haven't got any experience in RAM settings whatsoever. Anyway, I have read a few guides but I saw none who apply to my kind of configuration.
> XMP and all auto settings seem not to work. The system is not stable.
> 
> So I set the DRAM voltage at 1.35, System Agent Voltage 1.0 and VCCIO2 @ 1.05. And obviously the right timings. It passed a 8h Memtest, but made my PC reboot INSTANTLY on Realbench. Any ideas why ?
> Moreover, what is the safe range for IO2 and SA on Z590 Aorus Elite AX + i7-11700K (stock) for this configuration ?
> 
> Thank you.


Try 1.40-1.45V VDIMM.
Set VCCSA and VCCIO to 1.15-1.20V.
Test different BIOSes.

Can you tell us what the BSODs are?


----------



## v0lcano

> Try 1.40-1.45V VDIMM.
> Set VCCSA and VCCIO to 1.15-1.20V.
> Test different BIOSes.
> 
> Can you tell us what the BSODs are?


Thank you.

Isn't 1.4-1.45 harmful for sticks rated at 1.35 ?

I don't remember exactly what was displayed but it was errors like "memory_management", "cache manager", "attempted execute of noexecute memory", ...

Pretty surprised it passes an overnight memtest but throw me bsod at realbench.

I am one of the latest stable bios. Next is capsule bios and it's likely I won't be able to revert to previous versions if I do it (accordingly to gigabyte).

I'll try these settings.


----------



## Martin v r

then I got a little better at it, but I'm going to read up on the hidden volt setup, to see if I can get something, they drive auto

VCCSA 1.35v
VCCIO 1.25v
MEM 1.5v

wprime run with a whole lot of other on, so bad time, just had to test
i think it's a cpuen holding my bandbed back now, it's only a 10600k
msi z490 tomahawk
G.skill 4000cl 17-17-17-37 @ 4266 cl16-16-16-36


----------



## Ichirou

v0lcano said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Isn't 1.4-1.45 harmful for sticks rated at 1.35 ?
> 
> I don't remember exactly what was displayed but it was errors like "memory_management", "cache manager", "attempted execute of noexecute memory", ...
> 
> Pretty surprised it passes an overnight memtest but throw me bsod at realbench.
> 
> I am one of the latest stable bios. Next is capsule bios and it's likely I won't be able to revert to previous versions if I do it (accordingly to gigabyte).
> 
> I'll try these settings.


Those BSODs = Not enough VDIMM.


----------



## Dreamhackian

What's the best way to go about tuning my new kit? one stick in particular seems very finnicky. at 4600c16 1.55vdimm (which has passed tm5, i don't know how because it wasnt repeatable) one will always train 62/62 or 63/63 and the other 64/67. Even fails to boot sometimes at 4400. Tried working out optimal skews but it seems to always want to throw 31 or 55. I've isolated it to one stick, I know it's not board or CPU. When I swapped the stick order, the RTL issues migrated channels. Any other knobs to pull?


----------



## Koekieezz

v0lcano said:


> Hello,
> 
> It's been days since I first tried to get my RAM (Corsair LPX Vengeance 3000Mhz 2x8) running at its advertised speed but no luck. This is really getting on my nerves now. I haven't got any experience in RAM settings whatsoever. Anyway, I have read a few guides but I saw none who apply to my kind of configuration.
> XMP and all auto settings seem not to work. The system is not stable.
> 
> So I set the DRAM voltage at 1.35, System Agent Voltage 1.0 and VCCIO2 @ 1.05. And obviously the right timings. It passed a 8h Memtest, but made my PC reboot INSTANTLY on Realbench. Any ideas why ?
> Moreover, what is the safe range for IO2 and SA on Z590 Aorus Elite AX + i7-11700K (stock) for this configuration ?
> 
> Thank you.


could you give a thaiphoon burner read of your ram? and also which ver. is your rams (below barcode on the ram sticks)?


----------



## Ichirou

Question: Are G.Skill's 4,000 MHz 14-15-15-35-1T 2x8/2x16 GB 1.55V kits the tightest binned retail Samsung B-die kits available?

I'm curious to see how close my Galax kit can get to 1.55V now, on those timings. Will test later. 
Trying to figure out where the limitations are for my kit, whether it is the kit itself, or CPU or motherboard or something.
I know I can do 14-15-13-20-1T at 1.58V (with tight subs) but I haven't tested lower voltages yet, or loose subs (I went straight to tight).
@bscool


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> Question: Are G.Skill's 4,000 MHz 14-15-15-35-1T 2x8/2x16 GB 1.55V kits the tightest binned retail Samsung B-die kits available?
> 
> I'm curious to see how close my Galax kit can get to 1.55V now, on those timings. Will test later.
> Trying to figure out where the limitations are for my kit, whether it is the kit itself, or CPU or motherboard or something.
> I know I can do 14-15-13-20-1T at 1.58V (with tight subs) but I haven't tested lower voltages yet, or loose subs (I went straight to tight).
> @bscool


I think so, mine are 3600Mhz 15-15-15-35 1.35v, not that bad considering the voltage required.

Can you post some SOTTR benchmark numbers? 1080p lowest possible, if I'm not wrong the best I saw here was 372fps from DDR5 extremely tuned.


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> I think so, mine are 3600Mhz 15-15-15-35 1.35v, not that bad considering the voltage required.
> 
> Can you post some SOTTR benchmark numbers? 1080p lowest possible, if I'm not wrong the best I saw here was 372fps from DDR5 extremely tuned.


Not really advisable at this point in time since my water loop isn't even set up yet. It's just a test bench with an NH-D15 right now and low CPU core and cache clock.
Would probably end up with a really terrible score, lol. Also, I don't have a 3000 series GPU. Just some old 2000 series. Not a hardcore gamer.


----------



## Martin v r

after getting control of the sub, i can start lowering the volt
SA 1.3v
IO 1.15v
mem 1.48v

it has caused the cpu to drop 5c,to get the voltset down,but rather start a little too high, then so fine tuna cpu and mem, and when there is control over it, one can start screwing down


I have chosen to set LLc to 1, so I am 110% sure that it is not the cpu that makes mistakes, have seen many are below 3, it is probably not a good idea


----------



## Taraquin

Koekieezz said:


> A 10105F + cheap B560M costs aaround 157usd if converted in my country, while 12100F + B660M-K D4 (the only cheapest available option) costs around 270usd if converted. all i want to know is the read/write in 4c8t comet lake 3600 c16, since i cant find any online. i will go 10105F for now, i remember i needed some extra money or college stuff, so once 12100F is cheaper, B660M is cheaper, AAND SA/IO voltage unlocked in non K skus, i would definitely go that.


With your prices it makes more sense with i3 10105F, what does 10400F cost?


----------



## Koekieezz

Taraquin said:


> With your prices it makes more sense with i3 10105F, what does 10400F cost?


131usd, 11400f is 160usd. the thing is i wanted to upgrade as soon as possible in this 3 or 4 month otherwise i wont upgrade since offline college so yeah. i better make it or my ram kit going in the dust :", only if miracle happens and i got better per month money, will sure do 11400f haha


----------



## shrimpmaster

Hi, I upgraded my 2x8gb Tridentz 3600c16 (A1 10 layer pcb) with a 2x16gb Ripjaws V 3200c14 (b1 8 layer, but looking at pcb it looks like A2/B2).
Now the problem is half of the chips don't even make contact with the heatspreader, and it runs HOT. Is this normal with ripjaws v?
It also needs +0.02-0.03v for stability compared to my 2x8gb kit.









Test done while mining with 3 Arctic p12, as intake, fairly close to the ram. It's also winter...


----------



## v0lcano

Koekieezz said:


> could you give a thaiphoon burner read of your ram? and also which ver. is your rams (below barcode on the ram sticks)?


Hello,

Thank you.

The version written on the sticks is "Ver 5.30".

Here is the Thaiphoon reading of my RAM:









What do you think ?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Question: Are G.Skill's 4,000 MHz 14-15-15-35-1T 2x8/2x16 GB 1.55V kits the tightest binned retail Samsung B-die kits available?
> 
> I'm curious to see how close my Galax kit can get to 1.55V now, on those timings. Will test later.
> Trying to figure out where the limitations are for my kit, whether it is the kit itself, or CPU or motherboard or something.
> I know I can do 14-15-13-20-1T at 1.58V (with tight subs) but I haven't tested lower voltages yet, or loose subs (I went straight to tight).
> @bscool


Yes the 4000c14 are but look at my 2 cheap kits vs your tight timings. I am getting as good or better # so where exactly do these tight timings you run come into benefit?

I have tested using Super Pi, y cruncher, intel latency checker and I do not see the difference? Here is my 2 cheapest kits 3200c14 and 3600c14-15-15 with looser timings than you use.

I get it if you are just doing it for fun but to me spending more money to get the same or less performance doesnt make sense.

How can it be MB you have 2 different MB and the differnce is negliible.

The CPU you bought was tested under cold/cooler condition I would bet anything. Look at his other posts his temps are much lower than others. His CPU temps are like 15c in screenshots I have seen so he either has a chiller or puts rad outside or something that cools much lower than the avrage user will run.

Plus I think part of your problem is trying to run too tight of timings. I mean when my looser timings perform as good or better than yours what more do you need to see?

I dont understand people sometimes. lol


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Yes the 4000c14 are but look at my 2 cheap kits vs your tight timings. I am getting as good or better # so where exactly do these tight timings you run come into benefit?
> 
> I have tested using Super Pi, y cruncher, intel latency checker and I do not see the difference? Here is my 2 cheapest kits 3200c14 and 3600c14-15-15 with looser timings than you use.
> 
> I get it if you are just doing it for fun but to me spending more money to get the same or less performance doesnt make sense.
> 
> How can it be MB you have 2 different MB and the differnce is negliible.
> 
> The CPU you bought was tested under cold/cooler condition I would bet anything. Look at his other posts his temps are much lower than others. His CPU temps are like 15c in screenshots I have seen so he either has a chiller or puts rad outside or something that cools much lower than the avrage user will run.
> 
> Plus I think part of your problem is trying to run too tight of timings. I mean when my looser timings perform as good or better than yours what more do you need to see?
> 
> I dont understand people sometimes. lol


Mostly just testing the extremes to have a clearer picture of the ballpark I have to work with. I feel like it's important to get to know the RAM before experimenting with different setups. In this case, by finding out that my kit is similar to a 4,000 CL14 G.Skill kit, it means that there is a chance that the limitations I have with pushing it harder might not necessarily be due to the RAM, but with other hardware.

On a side note, how does a lower ambient temperature help with CPU *booting*? I can understand stability on load, but, at boot...? I don't really understand the specifics of how the IMC works and would be more stable in this situation.

And again, I'm having issues with higher frequencies on Gear 1. I'll have to experiment to see how high of a frequency I can boot with loose timings. 4,000 MHz certainly limits the maximum bandwidth that I can achieve, so I'll have to see where I can go from here. Will be binning slots again today.


----------



## Solohuman

On RL, what's the highest safe VCCIO2 one should run? 
Intel spec seems to indicate 1.0v +/- 5%!


----------



## v0lcano

> On RL, what's the highest safe VCCIO2 one should run?
> Intel spec seems to indicate 1.0v +/- 5%!


Well, if that's the case, I'm f'ed...
I'd like to know more about that.


----------



## Martin v r

error


----------



## HITTI

Anyone have experience with this set of ram?

CL16 BL2K8G32C16U4B

I'd like to overclock them with the best timings on intel system.


----------



## Ichirou

HITTI said:


> Anyone have experience with this set of ram?
> 
> CL16 BL2K8G32C16U4B
> 
> I'd like to overclock them with the best timings on intel system.


Pretty sure that's Micron E-die. Test up to 1.50-1.55V, and focus on raising frequency first as the timings don't usually get much tighter than XMP spec.
Lots of room for subtiming tightening though. Don't expect too much from tRFC.


----------



## Solohuman

v0lcano said:


> Well, if that's the case, I'm f'ed...
> I'd like to know more about that.


You think Intel is lying? 
The general recommendation from hardcore OCs on here is up to 1.5v.


----------



## v0lcano

Solohuman said:


> You think Intel is lying?
> The general recommendation from hardcore OCs on here is up to 1.5v.


I think the voltages mentioned by Intel in your screenshot are very conservative voltages.
Anyway what surprises me is that a lot of people here are are using way more important values without any trouble -until now-. This has to be verified on long-term.
However, I wouldn't go until 1.5V.
But I'm a noob on RAM OC so who cares about my opinion. Just curious to hear what the experts from this forum think about this.


----------



## Solohuman

v0lcano said:


> I think that is very conservative voltages.
> Anyway what surprises me is that a lot of people here are are using way more important values without any trouble -until now-. This has to be verified on long-term.
> However, I wouldn't go until 1.5V.
> But I'm a noob on RAM OC so who cares about my opinion. Just curious to hear what the experts from this forum think about this.


1.47v for VCCIO2 is what I need for not only Memtestpro 400% coverage but also LinpackXtreme 10 runs stress test with 10GB ram (experimental support only available for higher than 10GB). This is with 32GB DR @ 4800 & XMP values set for 4600 ( obviously gear 2) . Y-cruncher 3 runs complete test suite also stable with 1.47 on IMC. Think its the quality of my silicon with 11700k.
But I only game on this rig & bench for fun.


----------



## drkCrix

Just picked up a 11700k and an asrock extreme to play around with. Any recommendations on timings for 4 x 8gb of B-die? Not looking to shoot for the moon, just looking for stability at 3200

Thanks,

Chris


----------



## Solohuman

With the system in my rig builder profile, system would not boot with manually dialled in primary timings for 5000MHz but I'm using the XMP primaries rated for 4600 so there's that...
Lucky the MSI thing of "Memory try it" bios option for 5000MHz CL19 let the system boot ok but now starts long stability testing starting with MT86. All this with 32GB kit of DR Hynix DJR.


----------



## Koekieezz

Does anyone here know the limits for Comet Lake/Refresh IMC? i am planning to use 10105F, and my ram is Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 C17, planning to do 3800 C18 or C16 (3600 C16 did just fine in my friends 9600K). If anyone here with any comet lake/refresh or even 10105F could tell me the best overclock could be done, im really thankful for that


----------



## SoloCamo

Koekieezz said:


> Does anyone here know the limits for Comet Lake/Refresh IMC? i am planning to use 10105F, and my ram is Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 C17, planning to do 3800 C18 or C16 (3600 C16 did just fine in my friends 9600K). If anyone here with any comet lake/refresh or even 10105F could tell me the best overclock could be done, im really thankful for that


Going to be luck of the draw. My 10900 is running some cheap sticks of DDR4 cl18 3600 at cl18 4000 fine with only a votlage bump to the memory itself (1.35 to 1.45)


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> Does anyone here know the limits for Comet Lake/Refresh IMC? i am planning to use 10105F, and my ram is Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 C17, planning to do 3800 C18 or C16 (3600 C16 did just fine in my friends 9600K). If anyone here with any comet lake/refresh or even 10105F could tell me the best overclock could be done, im really thankful for that


That shouldn't be a big deal. Most of the time IMC limits only start to present themselves at 4,000+ MHz, and at tighter CAS latencies.
Different on AMD though; their IMC (FCLK) limits start kicking in much earlier.


----------



## Koekieezz

SoloCamo said:


> Going to be luck of the draw. My 10900 is running some cheap sticks of DDR4 cl18 3600 at cl18 4000 fine with only a votlage bump to the memory itself (1.35 to 1.45)


How about the VCCSA/IO?


----------



## Koekieezz

Ichirou said:


> That shouldn't be a big deal. Most of the time IMC limits only start to present themselves at 4,000+ MHz, and at tighter CAS latencies.
> Different on AMD though; their IMC (FCLK) limits start kicking in much earlier.


Really? im hoping i could do 3800mhz and no more above, planning between C16~C18. Someone on reddit told me that the IMC of comet lake is trash, could you confirm this?


----------



## SoloCamo

Koekieezz said:


> How about the VCCSA/IO?





Koekieezz said:


> How about the VCCSA/IO?


Left on auto (I know, not ideal) and VCCIO is at 1.312V. I should actually probably work on trying to lower that one of these days. Can't recall what VCCSA is set to but it's on auto as well.


----------



## Martin v r

hurray.founded solution on why msi z490 tomahawk would not run 4300MHZ + in bios, hope others can use it,solution is in my photo


----------



## TheHunter

Hi,

So what is more correct intel memory latency checker or aida64 latency.


Because when I disabled powerdown mode intel mlc latency dropped 4ns to 36ns, while aida64 latency raised for 4ns.


The more i think about this now is that aida is bugged and uses some sort of auto algorithm to auto add or substract 4ns if this bios option is enabled/disabled.

But by rocketlake it seems to sets it wrong. I rebooted few times and intel mlc consistently shows 4ns better latency.

My original post here








Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


Can anyone explain why on 1151/1200 memory latency inconsistent between motherboards/bios 11600k on M13H 43ns 4500ring 11600k on M12F 48ns 4400ring Same timings primary/second/third PPD-0




www.overclock.net


----------



## Solohuman

Hey everyone! 
CPU-11700k + MSI Z590 Unify
So having trouble getting my system to boot at 5000MHz with 32GB kit. This is Hynix DJR & running primaries of 19-26-26-46 - these are the XMP timings for 4600MHz. Tried up to 1.60vdimm, 1.52 - VCCIO2.
I tried the motherboards inbuilt settings for preconfigured profile with 5000Mhz but still won't boot. Pretty sure they are made for 16GB kit though but still adjusted VCCIO2 with no luck. 

Screenshot below is for 4800MHz & has been stability tested with Memtestpro v7.0 for 400% coverage. What other settings can be adjusted from this point to increase chances of successful 5000MHz boot?


----------



## Tordp

Solohuman said:


> So having trouble getting my system to boot at 5000MHz with 32GB kit. This is Hynix DJR & running primaries of 19-26-26-46 - these are the XMP timings for 4600MHz. Tried up to 1.60vdimm, 1.52 - VCCIO2.
> I tried the motherboards inbuilt settings for preconfigured profile with 5000Mhz but still won't boot. Pretty sure they are made for 16GB kit though but still adjusted VCCIO2 with no luck.
> 
> Screenshot below is for 4800MHz & has been stability tested with Memtestpro v7.0 for 400% coverage. What other settings can be adjusted from this point to increase chances of successful 5000MHz boot?


What kit did you get? Is it 8Gbit DR or 16Gbit SR?


----------



## Martin v r

Solohuman said:


> Hey everyone!
> CPU-11700k + MSI Z590 Unify
> So having trouble getting my system to boot at 5000MHz with 32GB kit. This is Hynix DJR & running primaries of 19-26-26-46 - these are the XMP timings for 4600MHz. Tried up to 1.60vdimm, 1.52 - VCCIO2.
> I tried the motherboards inbuilt settings for preconfigured profile with 5000Mhz but still won't boot. Pretty sure they are made for 16GB kit though but still adjusted VCCIO2 with no luck.
> 
> Screenshot below is for 4800MHz & has been stability tested with Memtestpro v7.0 for 400% coverage. What other settings can be adjusted from this point to increase chances of successful 5000MHz boot?
> View attachment 2547317
> View attachment 2547317





Solohuman said:


> Hey everyone!
> CPU-11700k + MSI Z590 Unify
> So having trouble getting my system to boot at 5000MHz with 32GB kit. This is Hynix DJR & running primaries of 19-26-26-46 - these are the XMP timings for 4600MHz. Tried up to 1.60vdimm, 1.52 - VCCIO2.
> I tried the motherboards inbuilt settings for preconfigured profile with 5000Mhz but still won't boot. Pretty sure they are made for 16GB kit though but still adjusted VCCIO2 with no luck.
> 
> Screenshot below is for 4800MHz & has been stability tested with Memtestpro v7.0 for 400% coverage. What other settings can be adjusted from this point to increase chances of successful 5000MHz boot?
> View attachment 2547317
> View attachment 2547317



RTL is to low,try 69/69 ore 74/74 ? 120/120 ,volts is not everything, so it can also come down


----------



## Martin v r

I also have a question,some advice to get copy up to speed is a bit stuck,is there anything that can help my mem in this bios photo?
mem 1.5v


----------



## The Pook

Martin v r said:


> I also have a question,some advice to get copy up to speed is a bit stuck,is there anything that can help my mem in this bios photo?
> mem 1.5v



tWRRD_sg/dg is high for 4300, try 27/23


----------



## T.S.O.M.

I don't know, how many times this matter has been asked or answered, so forgive me:

Do the *RTL and IOL settings* have to be tweaked very first, before tweaking/setting anything else? (memory frequency, timings, voltages, etc.)

T.S.O.M.


----------



## Solohuman

Tordp said:


> What kit did you get? Is it 8Gbit DR or 16Gbit SR?


NeoForza DR 32GB kit. They claim a 10 layer PCB too. 




Martin v r said:


> RTL is to low,try 69/69 ore 74/74 ? 120/120 ,volts is not everything, so it can also come down


Thanks, I'll give that a go next time.


----------



## bscool

Solohuman said:


> NeoForza DR 32GB kit. They claim a 10 layer PCB too.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I'll give that a go next time.


Not sure how you can manually set RTLs on z590 with 11th gen CPU. Only MB that can do that is Asrock OC as far as I know.

When I played with it on z590 with 11th gen it wont boot.


----------



## Solohuman

bscool said:


> Not sure how you can manually set RTLs on z590 with 11th gen CPU. Only MB that can do that is Asrock OC as far as I know.
> 
> When I played with it on z590 with 11th gen it wont boot.


You'd be surprised how deep the bios options on this board go! More fiddling capability than man could ever imagine.


----------



## bscool

Solohuman said:


> You'd be surprised how deep the bios options on this board go! More fiddling capability than man could ever imagine.


I have z590 Apex and Unify X so not sure which MB you have but yeah i would be surprised if you can set it in whatever MB you have.

Not on either PC but screens from DR b die and Hynix in gear 2 on Unify X.


----------



## T.S.O.M.

T.S.O.M. said:


> I don't know, how many times this matter has been asked or answered, so forgive me:
> 
> Do the *RTL and IOL settings* have to be tweaked very first, before tweaking/setting anything else? (memory frequency, timings, voltages, etc.)
> 
> T.S.O.M.


_bump_...

T.S.O.M.


----------



## Martin v r

T.S.O.M. said:


> _bump_...
> 
> T.S.O.M.


hmm if you set them high, then you can always screw down


----------



## T.S.O.M.

Martin v r said:


> hmm if you set them high, then you can always screw down


That's not the question; the question is whether tweaking RTL/IOLs comes *very first* (the first thing to tweak before tweaking anything else) or very last? The correct order of the procedure is, what I want to know.

But Thanks for responding anyways

T.S.O.M.


----------



## TheHunter

Im just going to leave this here


This is with powerdown - disabled,








with it on auto - enabled im at 39-40ns.









I stopped testing aida64 because it's clearly bugged regarding this latency value., i think it uses some algorithm to automatically detect if PPD option is on or off and since CometLake detects properly and lowers for exactly 4.00ns, RocketLake mixes and adds extra 4.00ns.














No way around it, here are various MLC scores with powerdown - auto on and all in 40ns range.







































Now few extra with powerdown - disabled , all in 35-36ns.


----------



## Martin v r

The Pook said:


> tWRRD_sg/dg is high for 4300, try 27/23


is,it's too low, then they will not turn on


----------



## TheHunter

Martin v r said:


> is,it's too low, then they will not turn on


Set tcke to 7 and that other adv timing trdrd from 6 to 7, those two try 28 and 24, or 29 and 25.

trp 8 instead of 7.


But then again i think 6core cometlake has lower copy in general, my temporary i5 10500 had similar lower copy..


----------



## nikolaus85

TheHunter said:


> Set tcke to 7 and that other adv timing trdrd from 6 to 7, those two try 28 and 24, or 29 and 25.
> 
> trp 8 instead of 7.
> 
> 
> But then again i think 6core cometlake has lower copy in general, my temporary i5 10500 had similar lower copy..
> 
> View attachment 2547729


how did you get such an high write bandwidth with just an i5 10500?


----------



## Solohuman

bscool said:


> I have z590 Apex and Unify X so not sure which MB you have but yeah i would be surprised if you can set it in whatever MB you have.
> 
> Not on either PC but screens from DR b die and Hynix in gear 2 on Unify X.


Thanks, the screenshot I posted earlier in HWiNFO indicates the model of motherboard I'm using & its listed in my rig builder profile.
I'll add another screenshot here from the more advanced settings in bios for this board. Not sure If I should leave the majority of these on auto settings or not but with regards to the RTL values, I took the advice that was offered earlier by Martin V R and increased the values of RTL up to 79 each but still no boot.


----------



## storm-chaser

For guys testing latency this might be helpful. 



















Explanation:


----------



## storm-chaser

nikolaus85 said:


> how did you get such an high write bandwidth with just an i5 10500?


I think his results are nominal on that tune. why are you surprised?


----------



## storm-chaser

@nikolaus85 got you by .1 second! Game on?


----------



## Martin v r

Solohuman said:


> Thanks, the screenshot I posted earlier in HWiNFO indicates the model of motherboard I'm using & its listed in my rig builder profile.
> I'll add another screenshot here from the more advanced settings in bios for this board. Not sure If I should leave the majority of these on auto settings or not but with regards to the RTL values, I took the advice that was offered earlier by Martin V R and increased the values of RTL up to 79 each but still no boot.
> View attachment 2547881





Solohuman said:


> Thanks, the screenshot I posted earlier in HWiNFO indicates the model of motherboard I'm using & its listed in my rig builder profile.
> I'll add another screenshot here from the more advanced settings in bios for this board. Not sure If I should leave the majority of these on auto settings or not but with regards to the RTL values, I took the advice that was offered earlier by Martin V R and increased the values of RTL up to 79 each but still no boot.
> View attachment 2547881


an 120 ?


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> Set tcke to 7 and that other adv timing trdrd from 6 to 7, those two try 28 and 24, or 29 and 25.
> 
> trp 8 instead of 7.
> 
> 
> But then again i think 6core cometlake has lower copy in general, my temporary i5 10500 had similar lower copy..
> 
> View attachment 2547729


thanks many times, but then it gets a little wild, could put some sub, which was rarely not possible before, and also play with RTT WR ... try many setup, and found the best


----------



## TheHunter

nikolaus85 said:


> how did you get such an high write bandwidth with just an i5 10500?


I think it was mostly a glitch, usually it was like so, I used blck 102.5 here, thus such weird ram speed.








one time I saw 100gb/s @ gear2 and 4266, but was unstable ram OC










storm-chaser said:


> For guys testing latency this might be helpful.
> 
> View attachment 2547898
> 
> 
> View attachment 2547899
> 
> 
> Explanation:
> View attachment 2547900





Martin v r said:


> thanks many times, but then it gets a little wild, could put some sub, which was rarely not possible before, and also play with RTT WR ... try many setup, and found the best


Welcome ,

I think mine default @ gear2 and 4200 or 4266 or 4400 were all *120* if im not mistaken. 

Isn't 60 a bit tight? atm Im @gear1 and default 80.


----------



## TheHunter

storm-chaser said:


> For guys testing latency this might be helpful.
> 
> View attachment 2547898
> 
> 
> View attachment 2547899
> 
> 
> Explanation:
> View attachment 2547900


I tried all, default random now with 4ns extra, I still think Aida64 detects PPD off wrong with RocketLake or maybe with combo z490,

default 47ns
fully random 51ns
ff 4.7ns
backward 4.8ns

That said I wrote to Aida64 my findings, the dev still hasnt seen my PM, will see what he has to say eventually..

until then I will stick with intel memory latency checker 



Solohuman said:


> Thanks, the screenshot I posted earlier in HWiNFO indicates the model of motherboard I'm using & its listed in my rig builder profile.
> I'll add another screenshot here from the more advanced settings in bios for this board. Not sure If I should leave the majority of these on auto settings or not but with regards to the RTL values, I took the advice that was offered earlier by Martin V R and increased the values of RTL up to 79 each but still no boot.
> View attachment 2547881


I would leave it alone, I went as low as RTL init A/B 11 in gear1 and 21 in gear2 and it didnt really make any special difference vs default, intel memory latency checker was the same, cpuz also. Maybe it gave me extra MB here and there, but nothing worth mentioning.

set Latency timing mode to dynamic and set and forget about it.  also , turn off that powerdown mode PPD (at end of the memory list, set to disabled instead of auto) and get extra 4ns lower latency speeds.


----------



## storm-chaser

TheHunter said:


> I tried all, default random now with 4ns extra, I still think Aida64 detects PPD off wrong with RocketLake or maybe with combo z490,
> 
> default 47ns
> fully random 51ns
> ff 4.7ns
> backward 4.8ns
> 
> That said I wrote to Aida64 my findings, the dev still hasnt seen my PM, will see what he has to say eventually..


Yup that's about the normal increase you will see in latency when running full random. I have tested on multiple rigs now, and with reference clock jacked. So far I am not seeing any bad results. Just preliminary testing, however. So take with a grain of salt..

AIDA64 has bad results if just using page random, especially on intel platforms and especially if your reference clock is boosted. ( but no such problems with full random)


----------



## storm-chaser

Im overclocked on the memory side to 4400MHz CL15 and everything is holding together so far. 
Occasionally, I will get a page crashing in edge, but not a big deal, It's stable for everything else I use it for. 
I am patiently going to go through every single ram setting to see how hard I can really push it. 

Current voltage is 1.65 and the patriot viper steel seems to be handling it no problem.


----------



## HITTI

5.0GHz 1.35v IO 1.3, 4400 16-16-16-36 1.53v, SA 1.3v. Thanks to @OdyWillMakeIt


----------



## The Pook

auto subs/tertiaries?


----------



## storm-chaser

HITTI said:


> 5.0GHz 1.35v IO 1.3, 4400 16-16-16-36 1.53v, SA 1.3v. Thanks to @OdyWillMakeIt
> 
> View attachment 2548023
> 
> 
> View attachment 2548022


You should be able to go 4900Mhz on the memory controller.


----------



## storm-chaser

Update:


----------



## Martin v r

HITTI said:


> 5.0GHz 1.35v IO 1.3, 4400 16-16-16-36 1.53v, SA 1.3v. Thanks to @OdyWillMakeIt
> 
> View attachment 2548023
> 
> 
> View attachment 2548022


 here is min 10600K same voltage set but ram just will not run 4400MHZ only if they get 1.6v


----------



## benjicod

-


----------



## Martin v r

benjicod said:


> Hi I need help with RTL / IOL settings. I have ASUS PRIME Z370-A ,i7 [email protected], and 4x8gb HyperX Predator DDR4 3200mhz ( C-DIE 1-kit is manufactuer Hynix, 2-kit is manufactuer Samsuns ). I OC my ram to stable value 3733 17-21-21-42, DRAM Voltage [1.4256],VCCIO Voltage [1.23750],System Agent Voltage [1.23750], but cannot set properly RTL/IOL values. I want set it. 60/60/60/60 and 6/6/7/7 but i can do this only manually on 3200. When i set frequency higher 3600,3700 or final 3733 that second kit is always one number higher for example 61/62/60/61 i can set IOL to value i want 6/6/7/7 thanks to IOL offset but RTL is problem.


high clock on mem ,sa 1.3/1.35v up to 4300MHZ SA 1.4v 4400+ I am on SA 1.35v io 1.28v mem 4300MHZ


----------



## Solohuman

Martin v r said:


> an 120 ?


Nothing, still no boot. I also loosened all the other values in that particular subsection for ram timings by 20 points over the defaults listed in grey. Still no boot. 



TheHunter said:


> ...
> I would leave it alone, I went as low as RTL init A/B 11 in gear1 and 21 in gear2 and it didnt really make any special difference vs default, intel memory latency checker was the same, cpuz also. Maybe it gave me extra MB here and there, but nothing worth mentioning.
> 
> set Latency timing mode to dynamic and set and forget about it.  also , turn off that powerdown mode PPD (at end of the memory list, set to disabled instead of auto) and get extra 4ns lower latency speeds.


Got it, thanks. I set latency timing mode to dynamic but still no boot, powerdown mode was already disabled my me anyway. 

On another note; the board has pre settings for extreme ram overclocking, but there is no indication if these are for 16GB kits or more capacity kits.


----------



## Solohuman

As an experiment, I'm going to see how high in stability testing my NeoForza 32GB 4600MHz kit can go with default JEDEC values & timings for 2666MHz @ 1.20v while keeping the 1.20v locked in & timings for 2666MHz.


----------



## Martin v r

Solohuman said:


> As an experiment, I'm going to see how high in stability testing my NeoForza 32GB 4600MHz kit can go with default JEDEC values & timings for 2666MHz @ 1.20v while keeping the 1.20v locked in & timings for 2666MHz.





Solohuman said:


> As an experiment, I'm going to see how high in stability testing my NeoForza 32GB 4600MHz kit can go with default JEDEC values & timings for 2666MHz @ 1.20v while keeping the 1.20v locked in & timings for 2666MHz.


just put numbers in the green box and let everything else run auto as wrong numbers give black screen,as a start


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> I tried all, default random now with 4ns extra, I still think Aida64 detects PPD off wrong with RocketLake or maybe with combo z490,
> 
> default 47ns
> fully random 51ns
> ff 4.7ns
> backward 4.8ns
> 
> That said I wrote to Aida64 my findings, the dev still hasnt seen my PM, will see what he has to say eventually..
> 
> until then I will stick with intel memory latency checker
> 
> 
> I would leave it alone, I went as low as RTL init A/B 11 in gear1 and 21 in gear2 and it didnt really make any special difference vs default, intel memory latency checker was the same, cpuz also. Maybe it gave me extra MB here and there, but nothing worth mentioning.
> 
> set Latency timing mode to dynamic and set and forget about it.  also , turn off that powerdown mode PPD (at end of the memory list, set to disabled instead of auto) and get extra 4ns lower latency speeds.


powerdown mode PPD, wow ty,It had a great effect on ns, but also gave a little on writing


----------



## Taraquin

v0lcano said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> The version written on the sticks is "Ver 5.30".
> 
> Here is the Thaiphoon reading of my RAM:
> View attachment 2546652
> 
> 
> What do you think ?


I have some OC experience with Hynix A (AFR). The best you can expect on a good bin is 3600cl16-20-20, avg bin like yours probably max out at 3400cl16-19-19 and around 400-450 RFC. They struggle with tight RCDRD, RP, RRD, FAW, but do okay on CL and RFC. My advice, buy B-die, they are quite cheap now and perform a lot better (10%+) if you wanna tweak.


----------



## robalm

Anyone tested this kit?








F4-4400C16D-16GVK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Ripjaws V DDR4-4400 CL16-19-19-39 1.50V 16GB (2x8GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.




www.gskill.com


----------



## Taraquin

Could be DJR, could be B-die, if DJR not a great deal since RFC must be 500+, if B-die binning is weird, rcdrd/rp is rarely more than 1 number higher than cl on B-die.


----------



## bscool

robalm said:


> Anyone tested this kit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4400C16D-16GVK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Ripjaws V DDR4-4400 CL16-19-19-39 1.50V 16GB (2x8GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


Yeah I helped some tune them. Good b die bin. Did 4000c 14-15-15 @1.55v on z690 strix d4.


----------



## Martin v r

Stuck with my Trident Z RGB F4-4000C17 1.35v
max is 4300MHZ 16-16-16-36 1.5v have tried up to 1.65v with loose cl they will hare not 4400MHZ no go, they can well 4300 14-14-14-28 1.65v but it just does not help on the bandwidth, so if it just does not want anymore, only little blck clock can if the last juice out of them, pages and looking at a set g.skill trident z royal f4-4800c19d-16gtesc, do not really know if I should throw money after them, can not really see some tests on them


----------



## robalm

Martin v r said:


> Stuck with my Trident Z RGB F4-4000C17 1.35v
> max is 4300MHZ 16-16-16-36 1.5v have tried up to 1.65v with loose cl they will hare not 4400MHZ no go, they can well 4300 14-14-14-28 1.65v but it just does not help on the bandwidth, so if it just does not want anymore, only little blck clock can if the last juice out of them, pages and looking at a set g.skill trident z royal f4-4800c19d-16gtesc, do not really know if I should throw money after them, can not really see some tests on them


I have tested the same kit, they was not great for me to. 
Also tested 3 kits with gskills b-die 3200mhz and 2 of them was better then the 4000C17.

My latest kit is this, it looks good i think with only 1.4v?








F4-3600C14D-16GTZN-(EOL) - Specification - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600 CL14-15-15-35 1.40V 16GB (2x8GB)




www.gskill.com


----------



## Shonk

What are people getting on alderlake

Here's mine

This ram did 39.3ns on my 9900KS "RIP"
some sub timings i cant set on the 12900k..

2 x 32GB Crucial Ballistix 3600


----------



## Martin v r

Shonk said:


> What are people getting on alderlake
> 
> Here's mine
> 
> This ram did 39.3ns on my 9900KS "RIP"
> some sub timings i cant set on the 12900k..
> 
> 2 x 32GB Crucial Ballistix 3600
> 
> View attachment 2548878


low ring clock why ???


----------



## Shonk

Martin v r said:


> low ring clock why ???


Ring clock on alderlake dynamicly downclocks and upclocks depending on if the e-cores are parked or not
3600 when the e-cores are active 
4700 when they are parked
if i refresh a single thing it may or maynot change to 4700

like so


----------



## Martin v r

Shonk said:


> Ring clock on alderlake dynamicly downclocks and upclocks depending on if the e-cores are parked or not
> 3600 when the e-cores are active
> 4700 when they are parked
> if i refresh a single thing it may or maynot change to 4700
> 
> like so
> View attachment 2548916


okay,always run with my pc locked at a fixed speed


----------



## CiTay

Ichirou said:


> Also, I can't set tRRD_S 3 (and tFAW 12) like I could on the Strix, so that's a bummer. BIOS allows a minimum of 4. So lost performance there.


No. tRRD_S 4 and tFAW 16 is as low as they go. Setting anything lower will be ultimately ignored and 4 and 16 will be used.

tRRD and tFAW are connected. tRRD is mininum 4, tFAW is mininum 4x tRRD, so mininum 16. But most people are unaware what these options actually do.

tRRD (Row-To-Row Activation Delay) and tFAW (Four Activate Window) were introduced to reduce the maximum power consumption and temperature of a RAM module. This is because a Row Activation draws a lot of power, way more than the actual reading of data from the memory bank. For a Row ACT, thousands of transistors spring into action, causing a spike of power draw each time. Only a REF (refresh cycle) uses way more power than an ACT again, this is the reason why there are no ACTs allowed during a refresh cycle.

Now, if there was no delay between row activations, all the power draw spikes would overlap each other, and the total power draw would go above the limits of DDR4 specs. So the first countermeasure is tRRD, which defines the minimum time between two consecutive ACT commands.

tFAW furthermore defines a time window in which four consecutive ACTs are allowed. If tFAW is set to 4x tRRD, no further delay is implemented. If tFAW is increased, there will be an additional delay after four ACT commands.











Here's the configuration with tRRD 4 & tFAW 20. Four ACT-commands are processed, the fifth ACT is declined, because the time window tFAW, in which only four ACTs are allowed, has not expired yet.

You can look up DDR4 specification about tRRD and you will find out the 4 is always the minimum value. If a BIOS like on ASUS allows to set 3, 2 or 1, that is just for show, the IMC will ignore it and apply 4.

One thing i have found in testing to be beneficial sometimes is setting tFAW to 20 instead of 16. This is a bit of a secret, everyone recommends tFAW to be set to the lowest value of 16. But set it to 20 and compare the "copy" performance. I don't know if this only happens on certain platforms, but sometimes copy is consistently faster with tFAW 20. Why is the Copy performance better with a slight additional delay, without affecting other things negatively? It might be that the delay allows other commands to be processed quicker. After all, not only are things read and written, but also copied within the RAM.


----------



## Ichirou

CiTay said:


> No. tRRD_S 4 and tFAW 16 is as low as they go. Setting anything lower will be ultimately ignored and 4 and 16 will be used.
> 
> tRRD and tFAW are connected. tRRD is mininum 4, tFAW is mininum 4x tRRD, so mininum 16. But most people are unaware what these options actually do.
> 
> tRRD (Row-To-Row Activation Delay) and tFAW (Four Activate Window) were introduced to reduce the maximum power consumption and temperature of a RAM module. This is because a Row Activation draws a lot of power, way more than the actual reading of data from the memory bank. For a Row ACT, thousands of transistors spring into action, causing a spike of power draw each time. Only a REF (refresh cycle) uses way more power than an ACT again, this is the reason why there are no ACTs allowed during a refresh cycle.
> 
> Now, if there was no delay between row activations, all the power draw spikes would overlap each other, and the total power draw would go above the limits of DDR4 specs. So the first countermeasure is tRRD, which defines the minimum time between two consecutive ACT commands.
> 
> tFAW furthermore defines a time window in which four consecutive ACTs are allowed. If tFAW is set to 4x tRRD, no further delay is implemented. If tFAW is increased, there will be an additional delay after four ACT commands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the configuration with tRRD 4 & tFAW 20. Four ACT-commands are processed, the fifth ACT is declined, because the time window tFAW, in which only four ACTs are allowed, has not expired yet.
> 
> You can look up DDR4 specification about tRRD and you will find out the 4 is always the minimum value. If a BIOS like on ASUS allows to set 3, 2 or 1, that is just for show, the IMC will ignore it and apply 4.
> 
> One thing i have found in testing to be beneficial sometimes is setting tFAW to 20 instead of 16. This is a bit of a secret, everyone recommends tFAW to be set to the lowest value of 16. But set it to 20 and compare the "copy" performance. I don't know if this only happens on certain platforms, but sometimes copy is consistently faster with tFAW 20. Why is the Copy performance better with a slight additional delay, without affecting other things negatively? It might be that the delay allows other commands to be processed quicker. After all, not only are things read and written, but also copied within the RAM.


None of this matters when I've tested it thoroughly on both a Micron and Samsung B-die kit and found that it gives higher performance results, lol.
Try it out, and if it does nothing for you, then it does nothing for you. If tFAW 20 is better than tFAW 16, then that's just for your kit. YMMV as always.


----------



## CiTay

Ichirou said:


> None of this matters when I've tested it thoroughly on both a Micron and Samsung B-die kit and found that it gives higher performance results, lol.
> Try it out, and if it does nothing for you, then it does nothing for you. If tFAW 20 is better than tFAW 16, then that's just for your kit. YMMV as always.


It's not about doing something for me or you. You don't seem to understand that this is hard-coded in the DDR4 spec, a tRRD of 4 is the minimum, below that will be ignored.

You can easily look this up in every DDR4 specification available. Here's from Micron:










Here's from Samsung B-Die:












So what the ASUS BIOS does when you set below 4 is, it probably lowers a tertiary timing which is connected somehow. But trust me, tRRD will effectively stay on 4.

I have some kits with several types of Hynix (at least CJR and JJR), a kit of Micron Rev. E and two kits of B-Die (single-rank and dual-rank), and i experimented with just about every single setting for a long time. I can give you more detailed information on my testing if you wish.


----------



## CiTay

I also found buildzoid actually explaining it on an ASUS BIOS, so maybe you trust his word more than mine.

And when he says "maybe 3 will work" he talks about tCKE again (which he talked about before).


----------



## CiTay

While we're at it, i can talk about some other things that might be interesting about the timings.

A couple words on the difference between _S and _L: tRRD_S or "Row-to-Row Delay_Short" is the delay between row activations (ACTs) in _different_ Bank Groups. I already mentioned how this (minimum 4 clock cycle) delay was established to reduce the maximum power consumption and temperature of a RAM module, due to ACTs causing a spike in power draw. Now, this tRRD_S delay can be shorter because a different bank group is physically on another location of the RAM module. Therefore, a spike in power consumption can be accepted again earlier, plus there's tFAW as an additional safety measure which can add more delay, provided it's set higher than 4x tRRD_S.

tRRD_L or "Row-to-Row Delay_Long" is the delay between ACTs in the _same_ Bank Group. This delay is usually meant to be longer, because they cause power draw spikes in the same area consecutively. If this delay is too short, the spikes can overlap and intensify (because the spikes don't end abruptly, they "fade out"). So you might have voltage drops or localized temperature issues on the RAM.

The same principle applies for WTR_S and WTR_L (Write-To-Read Turnaround Time) as well as CCD_S and CCD_L (Column-to-Column Delay).
Accesses in different bank groups: Shorter delay _S.
Accesses in the same bank group: Longer delay _L.

However, for WTR and CCD it's not meant to limit the power consumption of the ACT-spikes, it's meant to avoid data corruption. Because when a WRITE command is not fully finished and a READ command is issued - in other words, if the WTR (Write-To-Read Turnaround Time) is too low - then the data will overlap on the bus and you might get corruption. Within the same bank group, things need slightly more time, compared to a different bank group that had nothing to do just before.


If this is all news to you, remember that most RAM OC guides you can find on the internet don't even scratch the surface of how these timings really work. They will basically just tell you a lower limit and say "get as close as you can to that" without much technical background of the inner workings of it all. One example is tRFC and tREFI. On a guide it might say, get tRFC as low as you can for the memory IC (sometimes with a helpful timing table), and for tREFI it'll just tell you to max it out. 

So let's look at those timings a bit more closely again. RAM needs to be refreshed to retain its stored information. tREFI is the Refresh Interval, the higher, the less often it does a refresh cycle (for the time specified via tRFC). Because for that whole time where the refresh cycle happens, there is no data transfer to/from the RAM. So raising tREFI is one way to have more data transfers and less refresh cycles to interrupt it.

The only problem with those settings is, data retention is very hard to test. You see, the transistors in the RAM slowly lose their charge, until they're refreshed again. Too short tRFC you can see more easily, more on that later. Too high tREFI, the only test i know for that is the second to last test in Memtest86, the bit fade test. But it's also temperature-dependent. The hotter the RAM chips, the faster they lose their charge. You could theoretically create a worst-case scenario by blowing hot air onto your RAM with a hairdryer (not too hot and not too close) and then letting Memtest86 go to work. I have yet to try that out.

For my Samsung B-Die, i tend to go the safe route of setting tREFI to 32000. Most people will set it to 65K without batting an eyelash. But since you can't test it very well, unlike most other parameters, i am more on the careful side. I personally never had RAM that failed that bit fade test, maybe it's because i never max out tREFI, and try to not go right to the bottom edge of tRFC.

For tRFC, it also all depends on your modules, the chip density on the modules, and the frequency the RAM is running at. In theory, the higher the density of the chips on the module, the longer the refresh has to be, and therefore the higher tRFC has to be. Density means for example, a 16 GB module using 8 chips has double the density of an 8GB module using 8 chips. Then there are known values to which certain types of chips can go down to, again, depending on the chip in combination with the frequency it's running at. If you run at DDR4-4266, your tRFC has to be higher than at DDR4-3600, to arrive at the same amount of time in nanoseconds, because one clock cycle at 4266 MHz goes by quicker than at 3600 MHz. You enter the values in the BIOS as clock cycles, but you really have to look at the nanoseconds. Luckily there's tables where you can see it converted for all types of frequencies and values. Samsung B-Die is famous for allowing a very low tRFC in comparison to other ICs, this is one of its main strengths (that and things like tRCD and tRP being on the same level as tCL and scaling well with voltage).

Now, how do you test tRFC? On the surface, it seems easy to test, because with a tRFC that's too low, the RAM will either fail training and throw an error during POST, or it doesn't want to POST at all. However, don't go too close to the edge. With my old Kingston HyperX Fury kit (HX432C18FB2K2/16) with Hynix JJR, one of the rare kits that do XMP DDR4-3200 at only 1.2V, i optimized some timings at 1.3V, then tried to discover the minimum tRFC it would POST with. tRFC was 560 clock cycles as per XMP, and i could go down to 460 before it refused to POST. However, to pass Memtest86, i had to go up again to 500. Even with tRFC 480, which made no problem during POST, i got a truckload of errors in Memtest86. So i'd say, 30-40 clock cycles on top of the value that will pass POST is not too much. Of course, B-Die could do a much lower tRFC than Hynix JJR, but the principle is the same. Finally, tRFC also depends a bit on the DRAM Voltage.

tREFI on the other hand (the interval between refreshes) is always officially deemed to stay the same 7.8 μs (microseconds, from mikros = small in Greek). There is no such dependency on density etc., but instead they said, this is a proper value for DDR4 RAM that will ensure that there's never a problem, no matter the module. This, of course, is thrown overboard with RAM OC. You see most OC guides recommend to max it out at 65K. But most overclockers who write these guides only tend to test for stability. As i said, data retention is much harder to test, the bit fade test in Memtest86 attempts to do it, but i don't see much RAM failing on that part of testing. Maybe it has to be tested in a worst-case scenario like i mentioned before, because as the modules get hot, the official specs call for double the refresh cycles (every 3.9 μs).

And we know that higher ambient temperatures are not good for RAM stability. Depending on your graphics card, your RAM might be totally fine in a RAM-specific stress test like Memtest, Karhu, TM5 or GSAT. But once you enter a game and your graphics card dumps its heat into the case, very close to the RAM slots, you can have RAM-related crashes.This is why you can't rely on RAM stress tests alone, it also depends on the thermal environment the RAM is in.


----------



## zebra_hun

CiTay said:


> While we're at it, i can talk about some other things that might be interesting about the timings.
> 
> A couple words on the difference between _S and _L: tRRD_S or "Row-to-Row Delay_Short" is the delay between row activations (ACTs) in _different_ Bank Groups. I already mentioned how this (minimum 4 clock cycle) delay was established to reduce the maximum power consumption and temperature of a RAM module, due to ACTs causing a spike in power draw. Now, this tRRD_S delay can be shorter because a different bank group is physically on another location of the RAM module. Therefore, a spike in power consumption can be accepted again earlier, plus there's tFAW as an additional safety measure which can add more delay, provided it's set higher than 4x tRRD_S.
> 
> tRRD_L or "Row-to-Row Delay_Long" is the delay between ACTs in the _same_ Bank Group. This delay is usually meant to be longer, because they cause power draw spikes in the same area consecutively. If this delay is too short, the spikes can overlap and intensify (because the spikes don't end abruptly, they "fade out"). So you might have voltage drops or localized temperature issues on the RAM.
> 
> The same principle applies for WTR_S and WTR_L (Write-To-Read Turnaround Time) as well as CCD_S and CCD_L (Column-to-Column Delay).
> Accesses in different bank groups: Shorter delay _S.
> Accesses in the same bank group: Longer delay _L.
> 
> However, for WTR and CCD it's not meant to limit the power consumption of the ACT-spikes, it's meant to avoid data corruption. Because when a WRITE command is not fully finished and a READ command is issued - in other words, if the WTR (Write-To-Read Turnaround Time) is too low - then the data will overlap on the bus and you might get corruption. Within the same bank group, things need slightly more time, compared to a different bank group that had nothing to do just before.
> 
> 
> If this is all news to you, remember that most RAM OC guides you can find on the internet don't even scratch the surface of how these timings really work. They will basically just tell you a lower limit and say "get as close as you can to that" without much technical background of the inner workings of it all. One example is tRFC and tREFI. On a guide it might say, get tRFC as low as you can for the memory IC (sometimes with a helpful timing table), and for tREFI it'll just tell you to max it out.
> 
> So let's look at those timings a bit more closely again. RAM needs to be refreshed to retain its stored information. tREFI is the Refresh Interval, the higher, the less often it does a refresh cycle (for the time specified via tRFC). Because for that whole time where the refresh cycle happens, there is no data transfer to/from the RAM. So raising tREFI is one way to have more data transfers and less refresh cycles to interrupt it.
> 
> The only problem with those settings is, data retention is very hard to test. You see, the transistors in the RAM slowly lose their charge, until they're refreshed again. Too short tRFC you can see more easily, more on that later. Too high tREFI, the only test i know for that is the second to last test in Memtest86, the bit fade test. But it's also temperature-dependent. The hotter the RAM chips, the faster they lose their charge. You could theoretically create a worst-case scenario by blowing hot air onto your RAM with a hairdryer (not too hot and not too close) and then letting Memtest86 go to work. I have yet to try that out.
> 
> For my Samsung B-Die, i tend to go the safe route of setting tREFI to 32000. Most people will set it to 65K without batting an eyelash. But since you can't test it very well, unlike most other parameters, i am more on the careful side. I personally never had RAM that failed that bit fade test, maybe it's because i never max out tREFI, and try to not go right to the bottom edge of tRFC.
> 
> For tRFC, it also all depends on your modules, the chip density on the modules, and the frequency the RAM is running at. In theory, the higher the density of the chips on the module, the longer the refresh has to be, and therefore the higher tRFC has to be. Density means for example, a 16 GB module using 8 chips has double the density of an 8GB module using 8 chips. Then there are known values to which certain types of chips can go down to, again, depending on the chip in combination with the frequency it's running at. If you run at DDR4-4266, your tRFC has to be higher than at DDR4-3600, to arrive at the same amount of time in nanoseconds, because one clock cycle at 4266 MHz goes by quicker than at 3600 MHz. You enter the values in the BIOS as clock cycles, but you really have to look at the nanoseconds. Luckily there's tables where you can see it converted for all types of frequencies and values. Samsung B-Die is famous for allowing a very low tRFC in comparison to other ICs, this is one of its main strengths (that and things like tRCD and tRP being on the same level as tCL and scaling well with voltage).
> 
> Now, how do you test tRFC? On the surface, it seems easy to test, because with a tRFC that's too low, the RAM will either fail training and throw an error during POST, or it doesn't want to POST at all. However, don't go too close to the edge. With my old Kingston HyperX Fury kit (HX432C18FB2K2/16) with Hynix JJR, one of the rare kits that do XMP DDR4-3200 at only 1.2V, i optimized some timings at 1.3V, then tried to discover the minimum tRFC it would POST with. tRFC was 560 clock cycles as per XMP, and i could go down to 460 before it refused to POST. However, to pass Memtest86, i had to go up again to 500. Even with tRFC 480, which made no problem during POST, i got a truckload of errors in Memtest86. So i'd say, 30-40 clock cycles on top of the value that will pass POST is not too much. Of course, B-Die could do a much lower tRFC than Hynix JJR, but the principle is the same. Finally, tRFC also depends a bit on the DRAM Voltage.
> 
> tREFI on the other hand (the interval between refreshes) is always officially deemed to stay the same 7.8 μs (microseconds, from mikros = small in Greek). There is no such dependency on density etc., but instead they said, this is a proper value for DDR4 RAM that will ensure that there's never a problem, no matter the module. This, of course, is thrown overboard with RAM OC. You see most OC guides recommend to max it out at 65K. But most overclockers who write these guides only tend to test for stability. As i said, data retention is much harder to test, the bit fade test in Memtest86 attempts to do it, but i don't see much RAM failing on that part of testing. Maybe it has to be tested in a worst-case scenario like i mentioned before, because as the modules get hot, the official specs call for double the refresh cycles (every 3.9 μs).
> 
> And we know that higher ambient temperatures are not good for RAM stability. Depending on your graphics card, your RAM might be totally fine in a RAM-specific stress test like Memtest, Karhu, TM5 or GSAT. But once you enter a game and your graphics card dumps its heat into the case, very close to the RAM slots, you can have RAM-related crashes.This is why you can't rely on RAM stress tests alone, it also depends on the thermal environment the RAM is in.


Can you still place such specifications and documents here? It was good to read these lines.
For example, there was an intel specification in this forum where VCC IO and SA voltages were written, yet what is the max or what is recommended. I can't find anymore...
I'm a "Low Voltage" overclocker, I don't like to see values of 1.5V and above. I am aware that my results are not as good as those who work with high voltage, at CL 16 16 16 and so on.
CL17 is much harder for me, I don’t understand why, but if it manages to stabilize, lower voltage is needed.

Anyway, it was good to read this description, thank you.

Here are my three "Daily" 24/7 Profiles, I don't think they're bad, but I can make them stable with very low voltages. (50x/47x cpu and cache)

4133MHz is yet air cooled, 4300 and 4400 are Water cooled.


----------



## robalm

Got a new set of 2x8 3600mhz cl14 at 1.4v.
Sadly they are not stable on xmp.
Anyone that can run 3600mhz cl14 at 1.4v here?


----------



## robalm

zebra_hun said:


> Can you still place such specifications and documents here? It was good to read these lines.
> For example, there was an intel specification in this forum where VCC IO and SA voltages were written, yet what is the max or what is recommended. I can't find anymore...
> I'm a "Low Voltage" overclocker, I don't like to see values of 1.5V and above. I am aware that my results are not as good as those who work with high voltage, at CL 16 16 16 and so on.
> CL17 is much harder for me, I don’t understand why, but if it manages to stabilize, lower voltage is needed.
> 
> Anyway, it was good to read this description, thank you.
> 
> Here are my three "Daily" 24/7 Profiles, I don't think they're bad, but I can make them stable with very low voltages. (50x/47x cpu and cache)
> 
> 4133MHz is yet air cooled, 4300 and 4400 are Water cooled.


I also got myself a waterblock for my ram, but so mutch work to setup it, a big chance in temp vs stock?


----------



## rulik006

robalm said:


> Got a new set of 2x8 3600mhz cl14 at 1.4v.
> Sadly they are not stable on xmp.
> Anyone that can run 3600mhz cl14 at 1.4v here?


Oloy Blade RGB or F4-3600C14D-16GTZN?

Yes, Corsair CMT/CMW/CMK 3600c14 can, and probably newest patriot 3600c14/4000c16, TeamGroup 4000c15/4000c16


Spoiler: CMK16GX4M2Z3600C14











Spoiler: Oloy Blade RGB 3600c14









For comparison G.Skill Royal Scam 4266c17 *2021 *need around 1.435v (1.43 fail)


Spoiler: 4266C17D-32GTRSB


----------



## zebra_hun

robalm said:


> I also got myself a waterblock for my ram, but so mutch work to setup it, a big chance in temp vs stock?


Look at my pictures. Only with the fans of the house, no picture, 40C. With direct cooling, 1 fan 30-32C. With Chilled water, 19-21C, but my water temperature is 10-12C.


----------



## robalm

rulik006 said:


> Oloy Blade RGB or F4-3600C14D-16GTZN?
> 
> Yes, Corsair CMT/CMW/CMK 3600c14 can, and probably newest patriot 3600c14/4000c16, TeamGroup 4000c15/4000c16
> 
> 
> Spoiler: CMK16GX4M2Z3600C14
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For comparison G.Skill Royal Scam 4266c17 2021 need around 1.435v (1.43 fail)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 4266C17D-32GTRSB


Thanks, it's 3600C14D-16GTZN.
But i think the rest is at 1.45v right?









Ps: your photos is not working


----------



## TheHunter

CiTay said:


> While we're at it, i can talk about some other things that might be interesting about the timings.
> 
> A couple words on the difference between _S and _L: tRRD_S or "Row-to-Row Delay_Short" is the delay between row activations (ACTs) in _different_ Bank Groups. I already mentioned how this (minimum 4 clock cycle) delay was established to reduce the maximum power consumption and temperature of a RAM module, due to ACTs causing a spike in power draw. Now, this tRRD_S delay can be shorter because a different bank group is physically on another location of the RAM module. Therefore, a spike in power consumption can be accepted again earlier, plus there's tFAW as an additional safety measure which can add more delay, provided it's set higher than 4x tRRD_S.
> 
> tRRD_L or "Row-to-Row Delay_Long" is the delay between ACTs in the _same_ Bank Group. This delay is usually meant to be longer, because they cause power draw spikes in the same area consecutively. If this delay is too short, the spikes can overlap and intensify (because the spikes don't end abruptly, they "fade out"). So you might have voltage drops or localized temperature issues on the RAM.
> 
> The same principle applies for WTR_S and WTR_L (Write-To-Read Turnaround Time) as well as CCD_S and CCD_L (Column-to-Column Delay).
> Accesses in different bank groups: Shorter delay _S.
> Accesses in the same bank group: Longer delay _L.
> 
> However, for WTR and CCD it's not meant to limit the power consumption of the ACT-spikes, it's meant to avoid data corruption. Because when a WRITE command is not fully finished and a READ command is issued - in other words, if the WTR (Write-To-Read Turnaround Time) is too low - then the data will overlap on the bus and you might get corruption. Within the same bank group, things need slightly more time, compared to a different bank group that had nothing to do just before.
> 
> 
> If this is all news to you, remember that most RAM OC guides you can find on the internet don't even scratch the surface of how these timings really work. They will basically just tell you a lower limit and say "get as close as you can to that" without much technical background of the inner workings of it all. One example is tRFC and tREFI. On a guide it might say, get tRFC as low as you can for the memory IC (sometimes with a helpful timing table), and for tREFI it'll just tell you to max it out.
> 
> So let's look at those timings a bit more closely again. RAM needs to be refreshed to retain its stored information. tREFI is the Refresh Interval, the higher, the less often it does a refresh cycle (for the time specified via tRFC). Because for that whole time where the refresh cycle happens, there is no data transfer to/from the RAM. So raising tREFI is one way to have more data transfers and less refresh cycles to interrupt it.
> 
> The only problem with those settings is, data retention is very hard to test. You see, the transistors in the RAM slowly lose their charge, until they're refreshed again. Too short tRFC you can see more easily, more on that later. Too high tREFI, the only test i know for that is the second to last test in Memtest86, the bit fade test. But it's also temperature-dependent. The hotter the RAM chips, the faster they lose their charge. You could theoretically create a worst-case scenario by blowing hot air onto your RAM with a hairdryer (not too hot and not too close) and then letting Memtest86 go to work. I have yet to try that out.
> 
> For my Samsung B-Die, i tend to go the safe route of setting tREFI to 32000. Most people will set it to 65K without batting an eyelash. But since you can't test it very well, unlike most other parameters, i am more on the careful side. I personally never had RAM that failed that bit fade test, maybe it's because i never max out tREFI, and try to not go right to the bottom edge of tRFC.
> 
> For tRFC, it also all depends on your modules, the chip density on the modules, and the frequency the RAM is running at. In theory, the higher the density of the chips on the module, the longer the refresh has to be, and therefore the higher tRFC has to be. Density means for example, a 16 GB module using 8 chips has double the density of an 8GB module using 8 chips. Then there are known values to which certain types of chips can go down to, again, depending on the chip in combination with the frequency it's running at. If you run at DDR4-4266, your tRFC has to be higher than at DDR4-3600, to arrive at the same amount of time in nanoseconds, because one clock cycle at 4266 MHz goes by quicker than at 3600 MHz. You enter the values in the BIOS as clock cycles, but you really have to look at the nanoseconds. Luckily there's tables where you can see it converted for all types of frequencies and values. Samsung B-Die is famous for allowing a very low tRFC in comparison to other ICs, this is one of its main strengths (that and things like tRCD and tRP being on the same level as tCL and scaling well with voltage).
> 
> Now, how do you test tRFC? On the surface, it seems easy to test, because with a tRFC that's too low, the RAM will either fail training and throw an error during POST, or it doesn't want to POST at all. However, don't go too close to the edge. With my old Kingston HyperX Fury kit (HX432C18FB2K2/16) with Hynix JJR, one of the rare kits that do XMP DDR4-3200 at only 1.2V, i optimized some timings at 1.3V, then tried to discover the minimum tRFC it would POST with. tRFC was 560 clock cycles as per XMP, and i could go down to 460 before it refused to POST. However, to pass Memtest86, i had to go up again to 500. Even with tRFC 480, which made no problem during POST, i got a truckload of errors in Memtest86. So i'd say, 30-40 clock cycles on top of the value that will pass POST is not too much. Of course, B-Die could do a much lower tRFC than Hynix JJR, but the principle is the same. Finally, tRFC also depends a bit on the DRAM Voltage.
> 
> tREFI on the other hand (the interval between refreshes) is always officially deemed to stay the same 7.8 μs (microseconds, from mikros = small in Greek). There is no such dependency on density etc., but instead they said, this is a proper value for DDR4 RAM that will ensure that there's never a problem, no matter the module. This, of course, is thrown overboard with RAM OC. You see most OC guides recommend to max it out at 65K. But most overclockers who write these guides only tend to test for stability. As i said, data retention is much harder to test, the bit fade test in Memtest86 attempts to do it, but i don't see much RAM failing on that part of testing. Maybe it has to be tested in a worst-case scenario like i mentioned before, because as the modules get hot, the official specs call for double the refresh cycles (every 3.9 μs).
> 
> And we know that higher ambient temperatures are not good for RAM stability. Depending on your graphics card, your RAM might be totally fine in a RAM-specific stress test like Memtest, Karhu, TM5 or GSAT. But once you enter a game and your graphics card dumps its heat into the case, very close to the RAM slots, you can have RAM-related crashes.This is why you can't rely on RAM stress tests alone, it also depends on the thermal environment the RAM is in.


Hi,
very informative, thanks!!

btw how does this look? samsung b-die










I think I will set tFAW back to 20, already had it before and noticed stabler speeds and less variation in scores, but wasn't sure what was the cause 

Also what is th emin safe voltage for 3733 cl15, I was using 1.41v and it passed memtest, but don't know, I think it stuttered more in some games.. raised 1.43v for now


Although Im stuck in gear2 with 4200, 4266 is picky af, booted 4400 all at auto, but errors galore.


4266mhz somewhat tweaked main timings, but I think it failed in memtest86, by test 7 or test9 modulo20
*speaking of this memtest86 and lets say freezes, what could it be in gear2, too low IO2 or SA too?














4400mhz all auto timings, excet main and trfc/trefi , but had freezes and errors.. any help?


----------



## rulik006

robalm said:


> Ps: your photos is not working


I tried vpn US and EU, photo is avalilable
Problem with your provider


----------



## Ichirou

TheHunter said:


> 4400mhz all auto timings, excet main and trfc/trefi , but had freezes and errors.. any help?
> View attachment 2549532


Try increasing tRFC


----------



## CiTay

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> very informative, thanks!!
> 
> btw how does this look? samsung b-die
> View attachment 2549530


You're welcome. Your settings look quite good, solid job. tRAS can't go down to 32?
I would set tRFC to 320. This way you're more on the safe side there.



> I think I will set tFAW back to 20, already had it before and noticed stabler speeds and less variation in scores, but wasn't sure what was the cause


Hehe, yes. I like tFAW 20. I know my RAM can easily do 16 as well, but as i said, 20 seems to run smoother somehow. I can't quite explain it, it's just the way it is.



> Also what is th emin safe voltage for 3733 cl15, I was using 1.41v and it passed memtest, but don't know, I think it stuttered more in some games.. raised 1.43v for now


1.41V would be on the low side with your settings. Remember that you need a bit of headroom too, for example for higher ambient temps in the summer. So 1.43V is more than justified. I mean, we're talking a tight DDR4-3733 Gear1, which G.Skill would definitely set 1.45V for in XMP at 3600 already (with much more relaxed secondary and tertiary timings).




> Although Im stuck in gear2 with 4200, 4266 is picky af, booted 4400 all at auto, but errors galore.


Don't even bother, stay in Gear1. Gear2 increases internal latencies too much, you'd need DDR4-4400 to even have a chance of an improvement.




> 4266mhz somewhat tweaked main timings, but I think it failed in memtest86, by test 7 or test9 modulo20
> *speaking of this memtest86 and lets say freezes, what could it be in gear2, too low IO2 or SA too?
> View attachment 2549533
> View attachment 2549534


It seems you are using HWMonitor, i would switch to the much superior HWinfo64. It shows everything grouped in a more logical way and with the proper names for the voltages. For example i don't know what your VCCIO2 is at. VCCSA seems a bit low. For Rocket Lake, the old SA ranges and limits don't apply anymore, it can take more. Even DDR4-3600 Gear1 with tight timings, you can need something like 1.28V VCCSA and 1.32V VCCIO2 (and VCCIO left on Auto, it's not important).

What's more, forget Techpowerup Memtest64. You want to use TestMem5 (TM5, with 1usmus_v3 profile for example) for a quick check, then GSAT, Memtest, perhaps Karhu if you feel like spending money.

I mention everything about that in my RAM thread on the MSI forum: RAM explained: Why two modules are better than four / single- vs. dual-rank / stability testing


----------



## robalm

rulik006 said:


> I tried vpn US and EU, photo is avalilable
> Problem with your provider


Never mind now i can see


----------



## robalm

What do you guys think about this, any tips to get it better?
4266mhz cl17
ram voltage 1.4v
vccio 1.15
vccsa 1.2v


----------



## Taraquin

So after changing from the stock cooler to Silentiumpc fera 5 temps at loadingscreens in games sunk from 65-70C to 50-55C. This made 3600 i gear 1 stable, and 3700 and 3733 is very close to stable, but get rare reboots. SA volt is tempsensitive so expect about 100MHz more ramspeed in G1 headroom with better cooler. 

A question about tREFI: Max value seems to be 262143, 2 refreshes should then be 131072, 3 87382, 4 65536, 5 52429 etc if I understand correct? Or is just higher tREFI longer refresh not counting cycles?


----------



## Taraquin

robalm said:


> What do you guys think about this, any tips to get it better?
> 4266mhz cl17
> ram voltage 1.4v
> vccio 1.15
> vccsa 1.2v
> View attachment 2549622


Looks good. You could try a bit higher tREFI, 65536 if I understand cyclecount might work. If you raise ram voltage to 1.45V you could lower RFC to 304 or maybe 288 if you have good bin which it looks like you do. You could also try 30 or lower RAS. Your RC is now 51 since RAS+RP=RC.

I have mediocre bin and need 1.47V at 4000 1t to do 16 flat, 29 RAS, 280 RFC.


----------



## FedericoUY

robalm said:


> What do you guys think about this, any tips to get it better?
> 4266mhz cl17
> ram voltage 1.4v
> vccio 1.15
> vccsa 1.2v
> View attachment 2549622


I see it very nice, you could try Taraquin improvements, and share.
What ram kit are you on? Combo is z490-e @ 10900k? Max speed at 1T?
I'll be testing a xtreem 3600cl14 32gb with that board soon. Don't think I get those results since you are under a 2x8 and this will be a 2x16 DR kit...


----------



## TheHunter

CiTay said:


> You're welcome. Your settings look quite good, solid job. tRAS can't go down to 32?
> I would set tRFC to 320. This way you're more on the safe side there.
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe, yes. I like tFAW 20. I know my RAM can easily do 16 as well, but as i said, 20 seems to run smoother somehow. I can't quite explain it, it's just the way it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 1.41V would be on the low side with your settings. Remember that you need a bit of headroom too, for example for higher ambient temps in the summer. So 1.43V is more than justified. I mean, we're talking a tight DDR4-3733 Gear1, which G.Skill would definitely set 1.45V for in XMP at 3600 already (with much more relaxed secondary and tertiary timings).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't even bother, stay in Gear1. Gear2 increases internal latencies too much, you'd need DDR4-4400 to even have a chance of an improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you are using HWMonitor, i would switch to the much superior HWinfo64. It shows everything grouped in a more logical way and with the proper names for the voltages. For example i don't know what your VCCIO2 is at. VCCSA seems a bit low. For Rocket Lake, the old SA ranges and limits don't apply anymore, it can take more. Even DDR4-3600 Gear1 with tight timings, you can need something like 1.28V VCCSA and 1.32V VCCIO2 (and VCCIO left on Auto, it's not important).
> 
> What's more, forget Techpowerup Memtest64. You want to use TestMem5 (TM5, with 1usmus_v3 profile for example) for a quick check, then GSAT, Memtest, perhaps Karhu if you feel like spending money.
> 
> I mention everything about that in my RAM thread on the MSI forum: RAM explained: Why two modules are better than four / single- vs. dual-rank / stability testing


Thanks again.

For 3733mhz i need SA 1.37v, io2 is ok at ~1.22v, 3600mhz was ok with sa 1.25v 

Will look into 4400 again when im bored , but i think i tried trfc 350 SA1.40v and Io2 1.5v and still frezes in that DOS memtest86+.

I did notice lower cache e.g. 4000mhz vs 4300 seems ideal and lowers cpuv a lot, guess I'll stick with that too.


----------



## robalm

FedericoUY said:


> I see it very nice, you could try Taraquin improvements, and share.
> What ram kit are you on? Combo is z490-e @ 10900k? Max speed at 1T?
> I'll be testing a xtreem 3600cl14 32gb with that board soon. Don't think I get those results since you are under a 2x8 and this will be a 2x16 DR kit...


Thanks, yes z490e and 10900k.
This is the kit F4-3600C14D-16GTZN-(EOL)-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
I can't run 1t at all, i have tested about 4 b-die kits on my mobo/cpu and non of them whould allow me to run 1t (even xpm speeds).

Edit: this is the best i can do at 1.4v. 
295 TRFC did not boot to windows 300 sems fine, but need to be tested more 
Ps: rtls and iols are not tweaked in the photo


----------



## FedericoUY

robalm said:


> Thanks, yes z490e and 10900k.
> This is the kit F4-3600C14D-16GTZN-(EOL)-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> I can't run 1t at all, i have tested about 4 b-die kits on my mobo/cpu and non of them whould allow me to run 1t (even xpm speeds).


Same as me, could only set 1t with my old 2x8 3600cl15 at 3200 speed. More than that was a non go for 1t. I guess it's the board topology, that sucks.


----------



## CiTay

TheHunter said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> For 3733mhz i need SA 1.37v, io2 is ok at ~1.22v, 3600mhz was ok with sa 1.25v
> 
> Will look into 4400 again when im bored , but i think i tried trfc 350 SA1.40v and Io2 1.5v and still frezes in that DOS memtest86+.
> 
> I did notice lower cache e.g. 4000mhz vs 4300 seems ideal and lowers cpuv a lot, guess I'll stick with that too.


Don't spend too much time on 4400, i would stay in Gear1.

Can you show your voltages again in HWinfo64? Because it's weird that you say "SA 1.37v, io2 is ok at ~1.22v", normally SA can be a bit lower than IO2, at least on my MSI Z590...
You use an 11th gen CPU in a Z490, maybe that behaves a bit differently, but maybe you meant it the other way around? I'd like to see it in HWinfo64, at least this shows everything properly. You can expand the sensors by clicking the <----> at the bottom there. And when you double-click on a sensor data, it will show a graph of it over time. Very handy.


----------



## Solohuman

Guys,
Having issues getting to make MT86 stable for a few passes with gear 1 using i7-11700k & MSI Z590 Unify with 32GB kit of Hynix DJR (XMP 4600MHz)
Can boot at 3600MHz but its a pain to get stable. Have tried applying even the XMP profile timings at this lowish speed & pumped up to 1.45v SA, 1.41v VCCIO2 but it errors in the 2nd pass of MT86!
I know intel spec recommends up to 1.52v for SA, but want to avoid that much voltage unless absolutely necessary for highish gear 1 speeds.
Any suggestions much appreciated, thanks. 

Edit: never mind, using BCLK OC now for above 3466MHz, no matter what I do MT86 is unstable at 3600 (BCLK-100) in G1. I'm presuming the 1.3 bios has altered G1 OC with this board. I know my 11700k can do it cause' it did it on my other Giga Z590 board @ 3600 G1, fully stable in MT86, HCI Memtest pro 400% cover.)


----------



## Taraquin

New Asus beta bios 1013 for B660/H670/Z690 'fixes' the ussue of not being able to run 3400+ xmp on many locked Alder lake CPUs since SA voltage is locked to 0.89-0.98v. The fix is that auto now selects gear 2 as standard, yeah! 3600 G1 still works at my 12400F, but several others can't run it :/

Do we want stability? Yeay
Do we want speed? Yeay
Can we have both? Nay


----------



## sdmf74

AIDA64 ram benchmark was giving wierd results intermitttantly. One run would look normal aside from slightly worse latency & L3 cache latency but the very next run the copy speed would jump like +35,000MB/s from the previous run!
Is this a sign of instability with my memory OC? Im currently testing my three most recent timing changes (im thinkin tFAW is culprit) to hopefully determine what was causing it but I have never seen AIDA64 copy speed go from 54,174MB/s to 91,230MB/s and no timing adjustments were made between runs.

Anyone else encounter this behavior from AIDA64?


----------



## Martin v r

robalm said:


> Thanks, yes z490e and 10900k.
> This is the kit F4-3600C14D-16GTZN-(EOL)-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> I can't run 1t at all, i have tested about 4 b-die kits on my mobo/cpu and non of them whould allow me to run 1t (even xpm speeds).
> 
> Edit: this is the best i can do at 1.4v.
> 295 TRFC did not boot to windows 300 sems fine, but need to be tested more
> Ps: rtls and iols are not tweaked in the photo
> View attachment 2549682


cl 16-16-16-32 TRFC 280 1.45v


----------



## CiTay

Taraquin said:


> New Asus beta bios 1013 for B660/H670/Z690 'fixes' the ussue of not being able to run 3400+ xmp on many locked Alder lake CPUs since SA voltage is locked to 0.89-0.98v. The fix is that auto now selects gear 2 as standard, yeah! 3600 G1 still works at my 12400F, but several others can't run it :/
> 
> Do we want stability? Yeay
> Do we want speed? Yeay
> Can we have both? Nay


Auto Gear2 will apparently be the standard fix for that issue, same with MSI: MSI's Latest Z690 & B660 Motherboard BIOS Improves Intel Alder Lake Non-K Memory Compatibility


----------



## robalm

Martin v r said:


> cl 16-16-16-32 TRFC 280 1.45v


No sir 4266mhz cl16 at 1.45v, super unstable BSOD almost right away, i think my memory controller is not the best.
This is my latest settings that worked for 500% memtest.
4300mhz cl17 1.41v, io voltage 1.15 so voltage 1.2.


----------



## CiTay

sdmf74 said:


> AIDA64 ram benchmark was giving wierd results intermitttantly. One run would look normal aside from slightly worse latency & L3 cache latency but the very next run the copy speed would jump like +35,000MB/s from the previous run!
> Is this a sign of instability with my memory OC? Im currently testing my three most recent timing changes (im thinkin tFAW is culprit) to hopefully determine what was causing it but I have never seen AIDA64 copy speed go from 54,174MB/s to 91,230MB/s and no timing adjustments were made between runs.
> 
> Anyone else encounter this behavior from AIDA64?


AIDA64 memory bench is a highly synthetic, theoretical benchmark that can be tripped up by certain things. People put too much emphasis and importance on their AIDA64 results sometimes, instead of testing with a more realistic workload which benefits from higher RAM performance, like Timespy CPU for example.

You can easily see that your AIDA64 results are not correct, because 3600 * 64 * 2 / 8 = 57.600 MB/s maximum bandwidth. So whenever you see a number higher than that in R/W/C, you know that it probably was cached by the L3 cache or whatever else happened. Take multiple measurements by double-clicking on "Memory" a couple times, and filter out the results that are impossible. Also, AIDA64 is very sensitive to background tasks. Again, i can only encourage you to find another, more realistic test, which uses a more real-life workload and still responds well to changes in RAM performance.


----------



## mtnjustme

*I have 2x16GB ram kit and want to upgrade*

Hello, I have 2x16GB ram kit of F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA, which is Samsung B-Die 1.4v, and I plan on getting another set of 2x16GB, so my question is for those who know about the procedure.
First I wondered if I'd need to add more voltage (1.4v -> 1.45v), also it'd now be quad rank per channel now and I wonder which values would need to be changed to achieve stability the best way possible.
I also wondered about how to position the 2 sets in the 4 slots.


----------



## FedericoUY

mtnjustme said:


> Hello, I have 2x16GB ram kit of F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA, which is Samsung B-Die 1.4v, and I plan on getting another set of 2x16GB, so my question is for those who know about the procedure.
> First I wondered if I'd need to add more voltage (1.4v -> 1.45v), also it'd now be quad rank per channel now and I wonder which values would need to be changed to achieve stability the best way possible.
> I also wondered about how to position the 2 sets in the 4 slots.


You right now have dual rank rams, so if you populate all 4 slots with DR modules, you will have to consider the ram topology of your board, because if you happen to have daisy chain topology, you will have a hard time to overclock past 3700mhz. Don't know in practical way how are t topology going with 4 DR modules... Describe your system please.
All depends on your chip and board...


----------



## CiTay

Yep, as FedericoUY said, with four dual-rank modules, it will depend heavily on your individual mainboard model. The vast majority of modern boards use a daisy-chain RAM slot layout, where you will significantly worsen the operation of the memory system by using four dual-rank modules. Because as the name says, the two modules on each channel will become daisy-chained after each other, which is quite bad all-around. So much so that if you are into tuning your RAM, you would probably be better off with 2x 32 GB, even though the 2x 32 GB kits with DDR4-4000 have to make do with CL18-22-22-42 XMP.

I explain it in detail here:
RAM explained: Why two modules are better than four / single- vs. dual-rank / stability testing

But first of all, ask yourself how much RAM you really need. Like, do you have any software that requires this amount of RAM? More than 32 GB of RAM is complete and utter overkill for 99% of all users. The remaining 1% use (semi)-professional software that specifically requires it / benefits from it. If you don't use such software, you have simply wasted money and made things the most difficult for your memory system.

Even 32 GB is already generous for most normal users. For example, games don't even tend to use more than 16 GB, because they also have to run on the consoles (or they are designed for consoles in the first place, and ported to the PC later). And even the PS5 only has 16 GB of RAM. So 32 GB already is plenty for the coming years for gaming. With 64 GB, almost 3/4 of it will just be sitting around doing nothing (unless you have the need for it). By the time you actually need more than 32 GB for normal software and games, your whole system will be outdated anyway.


----------



## mtnjustme

FedericoUY said:


> You right now have dual rank rams, so if you populate all 4 slots with DR modules, you will have to consider the ram topology of your board, because if you happen to have daisy chain topology, you will have a hard time to overclock past 3700mhz. Don't know in practical way how are t topology going with 4 DR modules... Describe your system please.
> All depends on your chip and board...


daisy chain.
please provide more info, which slots to connect, what values should i focus at on the bios.
i'm currently at 3733 mhz cl16, though i can push it to 4000 mhz cl16 if i'd try atm.
having 3600-3733 mhz cl16 would be fine by me.
z590 gigabyte ultra 11700k
also using gdm and 2t


----------



## CiTay

mtnjustme said:


> daisy chain.
> please provide more info, which slots to connect, what values should i focus at on the bios.
> i'm currently at 3733 mhz cl16, though i can push it to 4000 mhz cl16 if i'd try atm.
> having 3600-3733 mhz cl16 would be fine by me.
> z590 gigabyte ultra 11700k
> also using gdm and 2t


Please read the thread i linked one post above yours, i explain daisy chain in there. Slots: Always second and fourth slot counted from the left first, with two modules.

Since you are using an 11700K, your main goal must be to remain in Gear1 mode. You mention you use "GDM" Gear Down Mode, an option which Intel doesn't have, but i think you just mean Gear2 mode. So this is not good. Try to aim for DDR4-3600 in Gear1 mode (DDR4-3733 Gear1 could also work with your setup, but it can sometimes require considerably higher voltages for VCCSA/VCCIO2).

Command Rate *2T* is normal for dual-rank modules in Gear*1* mode. However, CR*2T* in Gear*2* mode is not good again. Since the memory controller runs with a 1:2 divider in Gear2 mode (meaning, at half the RAM frequency), running CR*2T* in Gear*2* will be an effective CR*4*T! Some latencies double when Gear2 mode is active, Command Rate is one of them.

Conclusion: Do everything to stay in Gear1 mode, you will have to use CR2T, but this is not so bad. Gear2 would be much worse.

Here you see the latencies on top, and on the bottom the performance rating in games.











In Gear2 (G2), latencies increase and performance decreases considerably. To make up for this performance loss, you have to reach DDR4-4400 or higher in Gear2.

Otherwise, DDR4-3600 Gear1 is superior.

Now, if you really want 64 GB total RAM, this is all still true, but it will be harder to achieve. The 32 GB modules are not so easy to handle, and neither are four 16 GB modules.


----------



## mtnjustme

CiTay said:


> Please read the thread i linked one post above yours, i explain daisy chain in there. Slots: Always second and fourth slot counted from the left first, with two modules.
> 
> Since you are using an 11700K, your main goal must be to remain in Gear1 mode. You mention you use "GDM" Gear Down Mode, an option which Intel doesn't have, but i think you just mean Gear2 mode. So this is not good. Try to aim for DDR4-3600 in Gear1 mode (DDR4-3733 Gear1 could also work with your setup, but it can sometimes require considerably higher voltages for VCCSA/VCCIO2).
> 
> Command Rate *2T* is normal for dual-rank modules in Gear*1* mode. However, CR*2T* in Gear*2* mode is not good again. Since the memory controller runs with a 1:2 divider in Gear2 mode (meaning, at half the RAM frequency), running CR*2T* in Gear*2* will be an effective CR*4*T! Some latencies double when Gear2 mode is active, Command Rate is one of them.
> 
> Conclusion: Do everything to stay in Gear1 mode, you will have to use CR2T, but this is not so bad. Gear2 would be much worse.
> 
> Here you see the latencies on top, and on the bottom the performance rating in games.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Gear2 (G2), latencies increase and performance decreases considerably. To make up for this performance loss, you have to reach DDR4-4400 or higher in Gear2.
> 
> Otherwise, DDR4-3600 Gear1 is superior.
> 
> Now, if you really want 64 GB total RAM, this is all still true, but it will be harder to achieve. The 32 GB modules are not so easy to handle, and neither are four 16 GB modules.


i'm going to have 4 modules, not 2, 2 kits of 2 as i mentioned, what is the orientation slots wise, its going to be quad rank per channel, and yes i meant gear 2 and t2


----------



## FedericoUY

mtnjustme said:


> i'm going to have 4 modules, not 2, 2 kits of 2 as i mentioned, what is the orientation slots wise, its going to be quad rank per channel, and yes i meant gear 2 and t2


What do you mean with orientation slots wise? I really do not understand that...

I had 4x16 bdie 3200cl14 (trident z) installed in my board, best I could do was 3600cl16, anything past 3700 is a non go for the board directly.
I really wonder, as CiTay told you before, if you really need those 64gb, I've had it, and NEVER used near close to HALF of it... Got tired of oc waste with that kit (2 modules of that kit installed alone did 4000c16 and 4266c17 no troubles), sold it and got a 2x16 3600cl14. Best thing I could do...


----------



## mtnjustme

FedericoUY said:


> What do you mean with orientation slots wise? I really do not understand that...
> 
> I had 4x16 bdie 3200cl14 (trident z) installed in my board, best I could do was 3600cl16, anything past 3700 is a non go for the board directly.
> I really wonder, as CiTay told you before, if you really need those 64gb, I've had it, and NEVER used near close to HALF of it... Got tired of oc waste with that kit (2 modules of that kit installed alone did 4000c16 and 4266c17 no troubles), sold it and got a 2x16 3600cl14. Best thing I could do...


I mean that these are 2 different kits, so should i put first kit in the first channel and second in the second, or it doesn't matter the orientation?


----------



## CiTay

mtnjustme said:


> I mean that these are 2 different kits, so should i put first kit in the first channel and second in the second, or it doesn't matter the orientation?


Ok, now i get that part. The two kits should be absolutely identical, otherwise you are making it even worse for your memory system. And if the kits are identical, it doesn't matter much where you put each pair (otherwise, you'd put one kit in slots 2 and 4, the other in slots 1 and 3, but mixing different model kits will confuse your memory controller). With two identical kits of that G.Skill B-Die, the modules will all be the same hardware and binned to the same minimum quality to reach the XMP settings. So you can put them anywhere.

Since you didn't address the question about the necessity for 64 GB, i will now assume that you use some software which needs it.



mtnjustme said:


> and yes i meant gear 2 and t2


Again, this will effectively result in CR*4T*, because in Gear2 the commands are sent at half the rate to begin with, so CR1T becomes CR2T there, and CR2T becomes CR4T.
So performance will be quite bad. Also see here:


----------



## FedericoUY

Ohhh ok, that's even worse! Lol.
I always understood that you would get an equal kit, but if the kit is worse, I would put in slots 2 and 4 the best kit you got, and in 1 and 3 the worse. You will be restricted by the worse of both, and I really do not recommend you to do that at all.
Sell your actual kit (that is pretty decent) right now newegg is the only place that has it @ $315, you could get easly 250 for it, and purchase a complete 4x16 or 2x32 kit.

PS: I've searched a lot the kit you have prior to purchase my actual kit :|


----------



## mtnjustme

CiTay said:


> Ok, now i get that part. The two kits should be absolutely identical, otherwise you are making it even worse for your memory system. Of course, if the kits are identical, it doesn't matter much where you put each pair (otherwise, you'd put one kit in slots 2 and 4, the other in slots 1 and 3, but mixing kits will confuse your memory controller). With two identical kits of that G.Skill B-Die, the modules will all be identical in hardware and binned to the same minimum quality to reach the XMP settings.
> Since you didn't address the question about the necessity for 64 GB, i will now assume that you use some software which needs it.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, this will effectively result in CR*4T*, because in Gear2 the commands are sent at half the rate to begin with, so CR1T becomes CR2T there, and CR2T becomes CR4T.
> So performance will be quite bad. Also see here:





FedericoUY said:


> Ohhh ok, that's even worse! Lol.
> I always understood that you would get an equal kit, but if the kit is worse, I would put in slots 2 and 4 the best kit you got, and in 1 and 3 the worse. You will be constrained by the worse of both, and I really do not recommend you to do that at all.
> Sell your actual kit (that is pretty decent) right now newegg is the only place that has it @ $315, you could get easly 250 for it, and purchase a complete 4x16 or 2x32 kit.
> 
> PS: I've searched a lot the kit you have prior to purchase my actual kit :|


They're identical, but they weren't tested together in the factory, so I figured they might be different a bit.
Also I'm wondering about a good overclocking guide, I know the MemTestHelper one, but that's all I know, and information gathered around from the internet.
If there's a good overclocking guide specific for b-die I'd appreciate getting a link for it.


----------



## FedericoUY

CiTay said:


> Ok, now i get that part. The two kits should be absolutely identical, otherwise you are making it even worse for your memory system. And if the kits are identical, it doesn't matter much where you put each pair (otherwise, you'd put one kit in slots 2 and 4, the other in slots 1 and 3, but mixing different model kits will confuse your memory controller). With two identical kits of that G.Skill B-Die, the modules will all be the same hardware and binned to the same minimum quality to reach the XMP settings. So you can put them anywhere.
> 
> Since you didn't address the question about the necessity for 64 GB, i will now assume that you use some software which needs it.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, this will effectively result in CR*4T*, because in Gear2 the commands are sent at half the rate to begin with, so CR1T becomes CR2T there, and CR2T becomes CR4T.
> So performance will be quite bad. Also see here:


Hahaha was telling the exact same thing to him, even worse!!! 🤦‍♂️

Good info there!


----------



## FedericoUY

mtnjustme said:


> they're identical, but they weren't tested together in the factory, so i figured they might be different a bit.


Ok that at least is less bad than going 2 different kits with different timings (F.e.).
If those kits are identical, I wouldn't care about positions, I would only check to put one kit dimms on 2 and 4, and the other kit dimms on 1 and 3.


----------



## CiTay

mtnjustme said:


> They're identical, but they weren't tested together in the factory, so I figured they might be different a bit.
> Also I'm wondering about a good overclocking guide, I know the MemTestHelper one, but that's all I know, and information gathered around from the internet.
> If there's a good overclocking guide specific for b-die I'd appreciate getting a link for it.


They are more or less the highest bin for that speed, CL16-16-16-36 @ DDR4-4000. There is only one higher bin of 2x16GB DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 at an insane 1.55V XMP, but those are almost mythical and rarely seen in the wild, also they would cost almost 500 EUR. So for all intents and purposes, you have close to the highest bin of B-Die that G.Skill offers for the DDR4-4000 16 GB modules. All four modules will conform to that bin.

But you place your worries in the wrong place. The modules are the least of your worries. The bottleneck is in your board's memory slot layout, making four dual-rank modules electrically very challenging to control, it's in your BIOS code for the memory training, and in the CPU's integrated memory controller. Those have their work cut out for themselves. The RAM modules will just sit in their slots, chilling and wondering why they are not used to their full potential.

You will see it for yourself when you have the four modules. You won't need a RAM overclocking guide, you will need a RAM troubleshooting guide. Because when you use four dual-rank modules on a daisy-chain board, you will be lucky if you can reach close to your RAM's XMP, let alone thinking about overclocking further.


----------



## mtnjustme

FedericoUY said:


> Ok that at least is less bad than going 2 different kits with different timings (F.e.).
> If those kits are identical, I wouldn't care about positions, I would only check to put one kit dimms on 2 and 4, and the other kit dimms on 1 and 3.


I see, thanks.


CiTay said:


> They are more or less the highest bin for that speed, CL16-16-16-36 @ DDR4-4000. There is only one higher bin of 2x16GB DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 at an insane 1.55V XMP, but those are almost mythical and rarely seen in the wild, also they would cost almost 500 EUR. So for all intents and purposes, you have close to the highest bin of B-Die that G.Skill offers for the DDR4-4000 16 GB modules. All four modules will conform to that bin.
> 
> But you place your worries in the wrong place. The modules are the least of your worries. The bottleneck is in your board's memory slot layout, making four dual-rank modules electrically very challenging to control, it's in your BIOS code for the memory training, and in the CPU's integrated memory controller. Those have their work cut out for themselves. The RAM modules will just sit in their slots, chilling and wondering why they are not used to their full potential.
> 
> You will see it for yourself when you have the four modules. You won't need a RAM overclocking guide, you will need a RAM troubleshooting guide. Because when you use four dual-rank modules on a daisy-chain board, you will be lucky if you can reach close to your RAM's XMP, let alone thinking about overclocking further.


I need 64 GB, and I already have 1 kit installed, the second I ordered and I plan to install it.
There's a kit of 16 GB x 4 at the same rate, coming from G-Skill as well, at 1.45v IIRC.
However, if I get it close to the XMP that's fine by me, I just need a good guide that instructs me how to do it the most optimized way, btw I finished seeing the video you posted about the gear and command rate, and I'm familiar with his channel and seen a few of his videos.
Edit:


F4-3600C14Q-64GTRS


----------



## CiTay

mtnjustme said:


> There's a kit of 16 GB x 4 at the same rate, coming from G-Skill as well, at 1.45v IIRC.


Those kits exist, but they exist more for use in a T-topology board. On a daisy-chain board, this will give problems, it doesn't matter if you use two kits of two modules or one kit of four modules. G.Skill only guarantee that they match the XMP specs (the modules only!), but they don't know the capabilities of your board or your IMC. So you have to think of the XMP specs of a goal that can be reached in ideal conditions, but is not guaranteed in all conditions.

If we look at your Z590 AORUS ULTRA, it has a QVL for memory, and you will not find a single 4x16 GB dual-rank kit above DDR4-3600 being verified for use with four modules. Even the kits that come with four 16 GB modules, like the F4-3733C17Q-64GTZR, are only supported at that speed with two modules:










Even for the DDR4-3600 kits with 4x16GB dual-rank modules, the support for all four modules is spotty:










Two kits with DDR4-3600 CL16-19-19 are verified to work with all four modules at XMP, and you can see that they are using Hynix ICs, by tRCD and tRP being three clock cycles higher.

The B-Die kits will have tRCD and tRP on the level of tCL or maybe one clock cycle higher, and B-Die with 16 GB is always dual-rank, as they use an old manufacturing process with lower density.

There's only a very slim chance that you reach the XMP CL16-16-16-36 @ DDR4-4000 with all four modules on your board. If you checked out my RAM thread by now, in there i list the "Max. overclocking frequency" from the specs of a high-end Z690 MSI board, it claims "2DPC 2R Max speed up to 4000+ MHz". This is the maximum they reached in their in-house testing with two modules per channel dual-rank.

But those numbers are hard to reach. Each board manufacturer employs a hardcore overclocker (or sometimes even a team of them) which will attempt to set these records on their boards, so they can advertise with those numbers. For uninformed buyers, this might sway them one way or another. But they don't tell you how they reached the numbers. For example, they almost certainly used a CPU with a completely superior IMC. Much like with normal overclocking, where you have better and worse CPUs of the same model (which the shop "Silicon Lottery" sold for a while, but they quit, since Intel and AMD started binning much stricter at the factory and the high-end CPUs hardly have any headroom to exploit anymore), so too is the IMC, the memory controller, of varying quality. Only if you have a high-quality IMC, will it be able to handle four dual-rank modules at a high frequency. Sort of like putting four mustangs in front of your horse carriage, the IMC has to control them, otherwise it won't work.

As for how to reach close to XMP, i'm guessing first of all, luck with your IMC, good memory training routines from the BIOS, lots of VCCSA and VCCIO2, lots of trial and error, and a lot of time to spare, because stability-testing 64 GB can take a while for each thorough check.


----------



## qefir

It got boring, so I decided to poke around. 4000-4200 does not want to start even with cl19, i think it not bad result


----------



## FedericoUY

mtnjustme said:


> F4-3600C14Q-64GTRS


Please share results when you have both kits installed.


----------



## mtnjustme

FedericoUY said:


> Please share results when you have both kits installed.


will do.


----------



## Martin v r

qefir said:


> It got boring, so I decided to poke around. 4000-4200 does not want to start even with cl19, i think it not bad result
> View attachment 2550005


RTL to low try 69+ ore 120, TFAW set it to 20,but but have spent 4 weeks on my mem test on test,here is a good guide here MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper just 1/2 number that is wrong compared to the rest can give really poor bandwidth ,i had major on issue with 4300MHZ but got it under control but chose to go back to 4200MHZ and find close to the same performance again at 4300mhz


----------



## Martin v r

CINEBENCH 20 same sub 4200MHZ vs 4300MHZ va/sa 1.35v mem 1.5v


----------



## zebra_hun

Martin v r said:


> CINEBENCH 20 same sub 4200MHZ vs 4300MHZ va/sa 1.35v mem 1.5v


Cinebench is a CPU Test. Very good sw, but not for mem oc. Use WinRar or same sw. (68 70 13 14 RTL & IO L is high i think.)


----------



## Martin v r

zebra_hun said:


> Cinebench is a CPU Test. Very good sw, but not for mem oc. Use WinRar or same sw. (68 70 13 14 RTL & IO L is high i think.)


I know it's a cpu test, but just to show that you can win something on mem in that test
(68 70 13 14 RTL & IO L is high i think.) it read wrong, it is 69/69/4/4/5/5


----------



## mtnjustme

FedericoUY said:


> Please share results when you have both kits installed.


1.4v to 1.5v basically, 1.45 would work but would error after a while, 1.5 works pretty much.


----------



## FedericoUY

mtnjustme said:


> 1.4v to 1.5v basically, 1.45 would work but would error after a while, 1.5 works pretty much.


What works? Speed? Timings? Pics  ? Lol


----------



## Martin v r

PLL volt has an effect on mem and cpu vcore, maybe people should not choose auto on it


----------



## robalm

Martin v r said:


> PLL volt has an effect on mem and cpu vcore, maybe people should not choose auto on it


Pll termination voltage? If so what voltage do you run?


----------



## Martin v r

robalm said:


> Pll termination voltage? If so what voltage do you run?


ci


robalm said:


> Pll termination voltage? If so what voltage do you run?


4.9ghz Pll 1,22v ,it also gives a lot of points in cinebench , and allows vcore to get further down ,I do not have the best vcore cpu, but could put vcore down from 1,385v to 1,350 run with all cores locked. and still be 110% stable, I could not at all before, when 1,385 was the lowest on the cpu, but I know that my cpu can 5.1 + GHZ, but I have to play with that.when I get water on again


----------



## robalm

I have a problem with my system.
When i restart my pc it randomly fail to boot.
Get something like "system restore" load screen.
But i can just restart and it boots fine.
I passed 500% htc memtest.

For now i have lower from 4300mhz to 4266mhz, and so far no problem "so far" .


----------



## Martin v r

robalm said:


> I have a problem with my system.
> When i restart my pc it randomly fail to boot.
> Get something like "system restore" load screen.
> But i can just restart and it boots fine.
> I passed 500% htc memtest.
> 
> For now i have lower from 4300mhz to 4266mhz, and so far no problem "so far" .


TRY VA/SA set them to the same 1.3 an up to 1.36v
restart and look in the bios, and it gives the same volts as what you have set it to, my va gives low volts, so it should be a little right up
there is a bit of a jump in the voltage from 4266 to 4300 with va / sa, on my motherboard / mem, for it to be stable


----------



## storm-chaser

Here is my current setup... 24/7 OC (9600KF) stable @ 1.58 volts


----------



## robalm

Been thinking about dual rank.
I have been looking for the cheapest b-die 16x2 kit.
This kit is the cheapest i have found.
It looks good to me 3600 cl14, anyone?


https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Vengeance-PRO-RGB-Black/p/CMW32GX4M2Z3600C14


----------



## Martin v r

robalm said:


> Been thinking about dual rank.
> I have been looking for the cheapest b-die 16x2 kit.
> This kit is the cheapest i have found.
> It looks good to me 3600 cl14, anyone?
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Vengeance-PRO-RGB-Black/p/CMW32GX4M2Z3600C14


F4-4000C16D-32GTZR
*F4-3600C14Q-32GTZNB*
G.Skill Trident Z Neo RGB 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-4000 CL16
G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Gold 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16
G.Skill Trident Z Neo RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16

Du kan også kigge her B-Die Finder


----------



## KedarWolf

Martin v r said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTZR
> *F4-3600C14Q-32GTZNB*
> G.Skill Trident Z Neo RGB 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16
> G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-4000 CL16
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal RGB Gold 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16
> G.Skill Trident Z Neo RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600 CL16
> 
> Du kan også kigge her B-Die Finder


I bought a CL16 4000 Corsair b-die recently and my Cl16 3600 G.Skill Neo kit gets much better timings and overclock. I think you can get the CL16-16-16-36 3600 Neo or even Royal Elite pretty cheap right now.

The Corsair kit is going back. 









G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-32GTRS - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-32GTRS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





Much cheaper, you need the 16-16-16-36 3600, it's b-die.









G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-32GTZN - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-32GTZN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Subut

I've this question for the community here. While tuning and testing memory settings with the TestMem 1usmus config, the program halts sometimes. I'm running 44 passes to test out each memory setting and running 44 cycles 2 or 3 times to make sure (instead of running 88 cycles as a single set). With a set of memory settings that have passed 44 cycles before, I sometimes return home to find the PC idling with the TestMem software still open and with the timer counting but the cycle counter stuck at some number below 44 like 26 cycles without any errors in the testmem software or without whea errors in hwinfo. Since there are no errors detected, I don't know what to think about the stuck runs. Are they caused by problems in my memory settings or what. So I can't proceed with tuning my settings out of uncertainty. Whats this halting about? Am I at the edge of stability here or is the software faulty.

Here as example: 44 passes usually take 5:30h-6:00h on my system when it works as intended. So I set an alarm in 6hrs to come check. I come back to find program stopped at 29 passes. Visible in testmem showing 30gigs of ram available.


----------



## Martin v r

Subut said:


> I've this question for the community here. While tuning and testing memory settings with the TestMem 1usmus config, the program halts sometimes. I'm running 44 passes to test out each memory setting and running 44 cycles 2 or 3 times to make sure (instead of running 88 cycles as a single set). With a set of memory settings that have passed 44 cycles before, I sometimes return home to find the PC idling with the TestMem software still open and with the timer counting but the cycle counter stuck at some number below 44 like 26 cycles without any errors in the testmem software or without whea errors in hwinfo. Since there are no errors detected, I don't know what to think about the stuck runs. Are they caused by problems in my memory settings or what. So I can't proceed with tuning my settings out of uncertainty. Whats this halting about? Am I at the edge of stability here or is the software faulty.
> 
> Here as example: 44 passes usually take 5:30h-6:00h on my system when it works as intended. So I set an alarm in 6hrs to come check. I come back to find program stopped at 29 passes. Visible in testmem showing 30gigs of ram available.
> View attachment 2551977


can be many things, there is a lot of voltset for the cpu, so the error can also be there ,hmm trfc ?


----------



## eighty20

Sorry, wrong post - deleted


----------



## Martin v r

RTL CHA hmm 
if the performance falls on read / copy, and if it is too high, only copy wins 69 to low an 120 to high 
have just tested at 100 highest score I have had now on everyone at cl16 so I just need to play a little more it should be a little over 100 or below


----------



## geriatricpollywog

qefir said:


> It got boring, so I decided to poke around. 4000-4200 does not want to start even with cl19, i think it not bad result
> View attachment 2550005


Interesting how quad rank DDR4 looks like DDR5 in Aida.


----------



## Martin v r

small updat low and higher gave poor performance, being at 100


----------



## Martin v r

geriatricpollywog said:


> Interesting how quad rank DDR4 looks like DDR5 in Aida.


tFAW 16? try 20


----------



## Subut

Martin v r said:


> can be many things, there is a lot of voltset for the cpu, so the error can also be there ,hmm trfc ?


i picked trfc 185ns and it didnt help  also what is voltset? thanks


----------



## Ichirou

Subut said:


> I've this question for the community here. While tuning and testing memory settings with the TestMem 1usmus config, the program halts sometimes. I'm running 44 passes to test out each memory setting and running 44 cycles 2 or 3 times to make sure (instead of running 88 cycles as a single set). With a set of memory settings that have passed 44 cycles before, I sometimes return home to find the PC idling with the TestMem software still open and with the timer counting but the cycle counter stuck at some number below 44 like 26 cycles without any errors in the testmem software or without whea errors in hwinfo. Since there are no errors detected, I don't know what to think about the stuck runs. Are they caused by problems in my memory settings or what. So I can't proceed with tuning my settings out of uncertainty. Whats this halting about? Am I at the edge of stability here or is the software faulty.
> 
> Here as example: 44 passes usually take 5:30h-6:00h on my system when it works as intended. So I set an alarm in 6hrs to come check. I come back to find program stopped at 29 passes. Visible in testmem showing 30gigs of ram available.
> View attachment 2551977


Do not multitask. TM5 is not coded to restart operations if some other program takes up the same memory space. Let it run standalone or with very light programs in the background at most. Just a design flaw that the coder overlooked.


----------



## Martin v r

Subut said:


> i picked trfc 185ns and it didnt help  also what is voltset? thanks


trfc 185 is to low ,try 3XX to 4XX
start with oc on the cpu before playing with mem, when it is stable, then you give your ram 100-200 MHz up, and give your mem 0.05 /0.10 volts more an org, when it then becomes unstable, try to give va / sa a little more, you can see on the performance where you win, it depends a lot on how good mem you have, how much volt va / sa should have, mine are not the best, so my mem gets 1.5v and va/sa, is at 1.37v both 4300MHZ ,cl 15 att 1.6v to mem which I find too high

here is a good Guide MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


----------



## Subut

Martin v r said:


> trfc 185 is to low ,try 3XX to 4XX
> start with oc on the cpu before playing with mem, when it is stable, then you give your ram 100-200 MHz up, and give your mem 0.05 /0.10 volts more an org, when it then becomes unstable, try to give va / sa a little more, you can see on the performance where you win, it depends a lot on how good mem you have, how much volt va / sa should have, mine are not the best, so my mem gets 1.5v and va/sa, is at 1.37v both 4300MHZ ,cl 15 att 1.6v to mem which I find too high
> 
> here is a good Guide MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


no no, trfc 185 in nanoseconds, so 351T in 3800. my cpu runs with PBO with individual core curve optimizer.


----------



## Subut

Ichirou said:


> Do not multitask. TM5 is not coded to restart operations if some other program takes up the same memory space. Let it run standalone or with very light programs in the background at most. Just a design flaw that the coder overlooked.


this is sound advice for ive been allowing useless stuff like steam run while TM5. maybe ive been chasing my own tail after all. 

this is my current situation. ive loosened anything but the primaries with zero change. as you see, program stopped without errors yet again. ill try going back to tighter alt times and test killing other programs. i taught that since this is not a benchmark but a stress test, anything else i throw at it should also work w/o errors albeit very slowly.


----------



## bscool

@Subut AMD had their own ddr4 thread [Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


----------



## Ichirou

Subut said:


> this is sound advice for ive been allowing useless stuff like steam run while TM5. maybe ive been chasing my own tail after all.
> 
> this is my current situation. ive loosened anything but the primaries with zero change. as you see, program stopped without errors yet again. ill try going back to tighter alt times and test killing other programs. i taught that since this is not a benchmark but a stress test, anything else i throw at it should also work w/o errors albeit very slowly.
> View attachment 2552187


Windows itself can be a potential culprit, since you're letting the test run for a very, very long time. It can sometimes kick in services like virus checks or maintenance, etc etc.

IMHO, 1usmus is better used for an initial quick stability test, not so much a burn test. If you want a burn test, use an anta777 config instead. Also, I really don't think you need a ton of cycles. After a certain point, it can get obscure as any sort of physical or digital factor could influence results. The last thing you want is to successfully run 50 cycles, and then on the 51st, some spec of dust gets into the heatspreader and causes it to throw an error, and then you panic and wonder if it's unstable, and forever doubt yourself afterwards.

The best form of stability test is to run various different kinds of stress tests, maybe twice or thrice, and then use the PC normally with whatever programs and the like you use it for. After all, you still use your PC, right? Run SFC /scannow on the daily to see if any corruption ever kicks in. Do some gaming tests to see whether the GPU might affect the RAM, if you game on your PC.


----------



## Subut

bscool said:


> @Subut AMD had their own ddr4 thread [Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


oh snap i taught i was posting there already lol. sorry my bad lads.


----------



## Ichirou

Is it possible to get tRCD 14 at 4,000 MHz? Or is there a hard requirement for 15+?
@bscool


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Is it possible to get tRCD 14 at 4,000 MHz? Or is there a hard requirement for 15+?
> @bscool


I take it your asking about z690. I have seen people running 14. I have only ran 15 as 14 wasnt stable for me with the voltages I ran for Karhu/memtesting.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> I take it your asking about z690. I have seen people running 14. I have only ran 15 as 14 wasnt stable for me with the voltages I ran for Karhu/memtesting.


tRCD scales with VDIMM, I presume? So probably needs a lot more just to stabilize it?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> tRCD scales with VDIMM, I presume? So probably needs a lot more just to stabilize it?


Could be. I never really bothered with 4000 since [email protected] worked so easy.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Could be. I never really bothered with 4000 since [email protected] worked so easy.


Thanks

So far, I'm playing around with my Trident Z Neo DR kit (32 GB instead of 16 GB), and I'm finding very similar results in terms of what I can push, maybe plus-minus 1-2 on some subtimings. But overall very similar to the SR kit, albeit able to run 4,133 much easier than the other one, which had trouble even with 4,100.

The question now is whether I go for 4,133 CL14 or 4,000 CL13. Probably the former. If only my Gear 1 DDR4 IMC wasn't so average, I'd definitely want to try stabilizing it at even higher frequencies. In your testing, how much VCCSA/VDDQ did you need to run 4,266+ DR? That seems to be my main issue right now. I've tried to play around with it a bit, and sometimes it would work, sometimes it won't. Is there any known safe IMC voltage for Z690?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Thanks
> 
> So far, I'm playing around with my Trident Z Neo DR kit (32 GB instead of 16 GB), and I'm finding very similar results in terms of what I can push, maybe plus-minus 1-2 on some subtimings. But overall very similar to the SR kit, albeit able to run 4,133 much easier than the other one, which had trouble even with 4,100.
> 
> The question now is whether I go for 4,133 CL14 or 4,000 CL13. Probably the former. If only my Gear 1 DDR4 IMC wasn't so average, I'd definitely want to try stabilizing it at even higher frequencies. In your testing, how much VCCSA/VDDQ did you need to run 4,266+ DR? That seems to be my main issue right now. I've tried to play around with it a bit, and sometimes it would work, sometimes it won't. Is there any known safe IMC voltage for Z690?


I think the Asus strix needs different sa/dq from MSI from what i have seen. 

Could be IMC dependent also. I need 1.35v on them both or not stable at 4133c15 for karhu and y cruncher.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Could be IMC dependent also. I need 1.35v on them both or not stable at 4133c15 for karhu and y cruncher.


Did you notice any benefit going above 1.35V VCCSA/VDDQ? Or was that the minimum necessary? What about 4,266+ MHz?
Should be a good starting point for me. I noticed some stability regression going Auto on those IMC voltages (probably set too high?), so I have to play around with them a bit more.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Did you notice any benefit going above 1.35V VCCSA/VDDQ? Or was that the minimum necessary? What about 4,266+ MHz?
> Should be a good starting point for me. I noticed some stability regression going Auto on those IMC voltages (probably set too high?), so I have to play around with them a bit more.


I didnt notice any benefit to going higher since I was stable with 1.35 and never really messed with anything esle other than 4266c16-16-16 and that took a little more like 1.4v sa and vddq was around 1.5v from what i remember.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> I didnt notice any benefit to going higher since I was stable with 1.35 and never really messed with anything esle other than 4266c16-16-16 and that took a little more like 1.4v sa and vddq was around 1.5v from what i remember.


It's unfortunate that I have an average IMC with this 12900k. Even at 4,133 MHz, it gets fussy. Boots less than half the time.

On a side note, this Trident Z Neo kit isn't a great bin either. 4,000 CL14 needs 1.58V. In comparison, the Galax kit needed 1.55V.
4,000 CL14 1.55V kit is probably the best binned kit one can buy right now, if one can afford it.
Going to see if I can refund the Neo kit now.


----------



## mtnjustme

i wonder if you can help me with this:








about odt timings


I have z590 gigabyte motherboard (ultra) and i dont have an option to go above 160 in RTT_Park or any of the other odt timings. i have dual rank bdie. i've seen that for b-die the usual efficient odt are rtt_nom, wr, park at 34, 80, 240 respectively. iv'e seen this thread explaining experiments...




www.overclock.net


----------



## gilor8080

10900F
Z490 GAMING X 
3866 CL15-15-15-32
DRAM 1.480
VCCSA and VCCIO 1.180
stable, in games and TM5 is below 40c most often on 39c while playing.
do you have any tips on how to improve?


----------



## techenth

gilor8080 said:


> do you have any tips on how to improve?


twr 12 trfc 280 trrd_s 4 tfaw 16 twwrd_sg 28 twwrd_dg 24 trefi 48k


----------



## The Pook

updated my BIOS and now I have to clean out my pants 










the BIOS is reading the same but _pretty_ sure it's just a wonky reading since 

a) pretty sure my CPU would be dead
b) the BIOS doesn't allow >1.80v
c) it's exactly 2x what I entered (1.32v)


----------



## Ichirou

What was the best Z590 board? Apex/Unify-X/Dark?


----------



## Martin v r

gilor8080 said:


> 10900F
> Z490 GAMING X
> 3866 CL15-15-15-32
> DRAM 1.480
> VCCSA and VCCIO 1.180
> stable, in games and TM5 is below 40c most often on 39c while playing.
> do you have any tips on how to improve?
> View attachment 2552534
> 
> View attachment 2552531











Rank Interleave - The BIOS Optimization Guide | Tech ARP


The Rank Interleave BIOS feature works like SDRAM Bank Interleave. The only difference is that it works between different memory ranks. Read more about it!




www.techarp.com





TRY set RTL to 100 have test my back and forth too low / high gives poor bandwidth


----------



## YaqY

Martin v r said:


> Rank Interleave - The BIOS Optimization Guide | Tech ARP
> 
> 
> The Rank Interleave BIOS feature works like SDRAM Bank Interleave. The only difference is that it works between different memory ranks. Read more about it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techarp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRY set RTL to 100 have test my back and forth too low / high gives poor bandwidth


Lol, those RTL values at 100 are doing nothing because you don't even have memory sticks in the D0 slots...


----------



## Martin v r

tx rx equalization ? there are some who have tampered with it


----------



## Martin v r

YaqY said:


> Lol, those RTL values at 100 are doing nothing because you don't even have memory sticks in the D0 slots...


? slots 2/4


----------



## YaqY

Martin v r said:


> ? slots 2/4


I don't get why setting 100 for rtls in unpopulated slots would do anything. Your ram sticks are in slots 2 and 4 hence the D1 values in each channel (D1 means second stick in a channel). Your effective rtls are actually 69/71 with Iols of 14/15 (These are pretty loose look like auto values). You should enable round trip latency and you will actually notice those values drop and latency drop, lock them in when they train well.


----------



## Martin v r

YaqY said:


> I don't get why setting 100 for rtls in unpopulated slots would do anything. Your ram sticks are in slots 2 and 4 hence the D1 values in each channel (D1 means second stick in a channel). Your effective rtls are actually 69/71 with Iols of 14/15 (These are pretty loose look like auto values). You should enable round trip latency and you will actually notice those values drop and latency drop, lock them in when they train well.


that program reads incorrectly 100 100 59 59 4 4 8 9 setup bios


----------



## YaqY

Martin v r said:


> that program reads incorrectly 100 100 59 59 4 4 8 9 setup bios


What im saying is the 100s that you mention setting manually dont even apply to the dimm slots of your configuration. So why should they change performance at all. If aida is varying you are probably getting inconsistency and falling to placebo.


----------



## Martin v r

YaqY said:


> What im saying is the 100s that you mention setting manually dont even apply to the dimm slots of your configuration. So why should they change performance at all. If aida is varying you are probably getting inconsistency and falling to placebo.


have had them at 69, but performance on bandwidth is high at 100, have tested everything down from and up and back again


----------



## YaqY

Martin v r said:


> have had them at 69, but performance on bandwidth is high at 100, have tested everything down from and up and back again


Test with a real program like imlc or ycruncher/linpack. Aida has too much variation, you are just falling for the variation, changing those 100s does nothing in your scenario.


----------



## Martin v r

read/w../copy falls sharply 0,2XXX MB/s there is a difference between driving 69 and 100 , whether it's bios or mem / motherboard that does it, I do not weigh, but there I get the best performance, even if it does not make sense


----------



## YaqY

Martin v r said:


> read/w../copy falls sharply 0,2XXX MB/s there is a difference between driving 69 and 100 , whether it's bios or mem / motherboard that does it, I do not weigh, but there I get the best performance, even if it does not make sense


If you think increasing Rtls improves performance then I really don’t know what to say, using Aida to test things like that isn’t ideal it varies heavily run to run, lower Rtls always lowers latency though. Even then the Rtls you are claiming to change aren’t even actively used dimm slots on your current config so it won’t have an affect. I’ll leave it at that.


----------



## Martin v r

YaqY said:


> If you think increasing Rtls improves performance then I really don’t know what to say, using Aida to test things like that isn’t ideal it varies heavily run to run, lower Rtls always lowers latency though. Even then the Rtls you are claiming to change aren’t even actively used dimm slots on your current config so it won’t have an affect. I’ll leave it at that.


 hmm must give you right, I just changed RTT NOM 2 days ago from 34 to 0, it seems that was what made me get the best performance before at 100, so by retesting I could see I got performance back again at the 71


----------



## gilor80

techenth said:


> twr 12 trfc 280 trrd_s 4 tfaw 16 twwrd_sg 28 twwrd_dg 24 trefi 48k


thank u!!!


----------



## robalm

Anyone know what is the best bin of this kits.
G-skills 32gb 16x2.
4000mhz cl 16-16-16 1.4v vs 3600mhz cl 14-15-15 1.45v

Price is the same.


----------



## bscool

robalm said:


> Anyone know what is the best bin of this kits.
> G-skills 32gb 16x2.
> 4000mhz cl 16-16-16 1.4v vs 3600mhz cl 14-15-15 1.45v
> 
> Price is the same.


I have had both and for me the 4000c16-16-16 was slightly better but still lotto.


----------



## Martin v r

4000mhz cl 16-16-16 1


----------



## robalm

Thanks guys, now i found this kit for 100 dollar less im sure it's b-die but i don't know about the quality








F4-4000C17D-32GVKB - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Ripjaws V DDR4-4000 CL17-18-18-38 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.




www.gskill.com


----------



## bscool

robalm said:


> Thanks guys, now i found this kit for 100 dollar less im sure it's b-die but i don't know about the quality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C17D-32GVKB - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Ripjaws V DDR4-4000 CL17-18-18-38 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


I would buy it. Any of the kits is lotto. I have seen people get very good bins of the 4000c17 kits also.

Unless money is no object I dont think the top bin kits like 4000c14, 4266c16, 4400c17 kits are worth the extra money. I buy them because I just like messing with this stuff but it is not worth it to pay almost double the price for another 100mhz or running 1 cas tighter as an example.


----------



## Martin v r

bscool said:


> I would buy it. Any of the kits is lotto. I have seen people get very good bins of the 4000c17 kits also.
> 
> Unless money is no object I dont think the top bin kits like 4000c14, 4266c16, 4400c17 kits are worth the extra money. I buy them because I just like messing with this stuff but it is not worth it to pay almost double the price for another 100mhz or running 1 cas tighter as an example.











G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Review – 4000MHz C17 - KitGuru


G.SKILL's Trident Z Royal memory brings 4000MHz C17 operating frequency in a 32GB dual-channel, dual




www.kitguru.net




B-Die Finder my son just got a set G.skill 4000mhz cl 18 2x32 and it is with hynix mem


----------



## Koekieezz

Hello, i did get my i3 10105F and done 3600 C16 (Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 C17, Hynix CJR) stable at 1.376v dram, 1.21v vccsa, 1.17 vccio (i entered 1.16 but msi does msi things), thanks to @SoloCamo and @Ichirou for giving the guess. tXP at 4 and PPD at 0 (disabled the Power Down Mode too). i enabled XMP, and the tRTL is tied to tIOL so i leave tRTL at auto, and using tIOL to lower the tRTL, so far 59/60 and 6/7 is the far most stablest.























I hope there are some adjustments i could make on any timings, and i still prefer dram voltage at 1.4 max.


----------



## Martin v r

Koekieezz said:


> Hello, i did get my i3 10105F and done 3600 C16 (Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 C17, Hynix CJR) stable at 1.376v dram, 1.21v vccsa, 1.17 vccio (i entered 1.16 but msi does msi things), thanks to @SoloCamo and @Ichirou for giving the guess. tXP at 4 and PPD at 0 (disabled the Power Down Mode too). i enabled XMP, and the tRTL is tied to tIOL so i leave tRTL at auto, and using tIOL to lower the tRTL, so far 59/60 and 6/7 is the far most stablest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope there are some adjustments i could make on any timings, and i still prefer dram voltage at 1.4 max.


no xmp 








MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## Koekieezz

Martin v r said:


> no xmp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> 
> 
> C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


Sorry but i dont get what you meant. I used that guide, and i already enabled XMP + this is the tightest timing stable as for now (decrease tRTP to 8, tWR to 12, tRDWR's to 9):









I was hoping that another CJR user or the same user of my ram (Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 C17) have a better timings than this one, currently wondering if tWR and tRTP could be pushed further, not sure about tCKE maybe someone could give guide/references?


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> Sorry but i dont get what you meant. I used that guide, and i already enabled XMP + this is the tightest timing stable as for now (decrease tRTP to 8, tWR to 12, tRDWR's to 9):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping that another CJR user or the same user of my ram (Patriot Viper Blackout 3600 C17) have a better timings than this one.


Gotta pump more VDIMM and raise frequency. 16-19-19-XX is pretty standard for that sort of die. But CJR caps off around 1.45-1.50V at most before there is performance regression.


----------



## Koekieezz

Ichirou said:


> Gotta pump more VDIMM and raise frequency. 16-19-19-XX is pretty standard for that sort of die. But CJR caps off around 1.45-1.50V at most before there is performance regression.


im not comfortable with above 1.41v for 3866 CL18, so i think 3600 CL16 for now is my sweetspot. wondering if any secondaries could be lowered, and probably some explanations XD


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> im not comfortable with above 1.41v for 3866 CL18, so i think 3600 CL16 for now is my sweetspot. wondering if any secondaries could be lowered, and probably some explanations XD


Subtimings look about standard. tWTR_ could probably go lower. tCKE as well. Maybe tCWL.

Don't hesitate to shoot tREFI to the roof if you can cool the RAM.


----------



## Koekieezz

Ichirou said:


> Subtimings look about standard. tWTR_ could probably go lower. tCKE as well. Maybe tCWL.
> 
> Don't hesitate to shoot tREFI to the roof if you can cool the RAM.


im not sure about lowering the tWTR, isnt 4/8 is tight enough? or any suggestion on values for lowering it for this CJR? im currently wondering if i could reach better read performace


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> im not sure about lowering the tWTR, isnt 4/8 is tight enough? or any suggestion on values for lowering it for this CJR? im currently wondering if i could reach better read performace


tWTR_L and _S differ depending on die, but 4/2 is common for Micron while 6/1 is common for Samsung. Hynix, not sure, but it's probably some mixture of both. Go as low as possible.
Aside from what I've mentioned, most of your timings are already tight. tREFI can be raised to the roof as long as you have proper cooling for the RAM. That'll give you a jump in bandwidth.


----------



## Koekieezz

Ichirou said:


> tWTR_L and _S differ depending on die, but 4/2 is common for Micron while 6/1 is common for Samsung. Hynix, not sure, but it's probably some mixture of both. Go as low as possible.
> Aside from what I've mentioned, most of your timings are already tight. tREFI can be raised to the roof as long as you have proper cooling for the RAM. That'll give you a jump in bandwidth.


Hello, i have hard time on understanding why the tRTL and tIOL cant be adjusted (any values could be inputted but wont change). I used fixed mode, no boot. I've read some article, and currently i ran these settings:









Also i dropped the tWR to 10 and tRTP to 6 (idk if this is tight enough) and ran TM5 absolut (im not sure if 3 cycles is stable but i dont have much time XD) with Furmark as always:
















And to the main question:

How do i propperly adjust tRTL and tIOL on MSi motherboard?


I set RTL init A at 64 and B at 65, does that means my tRTL are at 64 and 65? or 59 and 60? or anywhere ranging from tRTL to the RTL Init i gave (like A at 59 to 64 and will adjust auto, B at 60 to 65) since it's set to dynamic? i have 0 clues.


I set IOL Compensation A and B at 23, is this value should be higher? or lower? I see tha value of the rtl dropped, but does it actually work like A at 4 really working at 4, and B at 5 really working at 5?


Same like IOL, should the RTL init value be lower or higher?


I cant do fixed mode, but i could do dynamic mode, i have no clues abt this.

All i wanted to do is to lower the RTL and IOL. I really want to know if RTL (or tRTL) could be equals or must be 1 time apart, since the guide in here tells that dont do same RTL. so yeah im pretty stuck at this. leaving them on all Auto will make the RTL Init at 67 both, Compensation 21, tRTL always on 59 and 60, tIOL on 6 and 7. the only way to adjust the tRTL are by increasing tIOL. so pretty much you know im so confused here :"

Im thinking to adjust the on die termination but i dont think it's necessary, i guess. Idk if my tWR and tRTP is tight but so far stable no bsods, let me know what you think


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> Hello, i have hard time on understanding why the tRTL and tIOL cant be adjusted (any values could be inputted but wont change). I used fixed mode, no boot. I've read some article, and currently i ran these settings:
> View attachment 2553969
> 
> 
> Also i dropped the tWR to 10 and tRTP to 6 (idk if this is tight enough) and ran TM5 absolut (im not sure if 3 cycles is stable but i dont have much time XD) with Furmark as always:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And to the main question:
> 
> How do i propperly adjust tRTL and tIOL on MSi motherboard?
> 
> 
> I set RTL init A at 64 and B at 65, does that means my tRTL are at 64 and 65? or 59 and 60? or anywhere ranging from tRTL to the RTL Init i gave (like A at 59 to 64 and will adjust auto, B at 60 to 65) since it's set to dynamic? i have 0 clues.
> 
> 
> I set IOL Compensation A and B at 23, is this value should be higher? or lower? I see tha value of the rtl dropped, but does it actually work like A at 4 really working at 4, and B at 5 really working at 5?
> 
> 
> Same like IOL, should the RTL init value be lower or higher?
> 
> 
> I cant do fixed mode, but i could do dynamic mode, i have no clues abt this.
> 
> All i wanted to do is to lower the RTL and IOL. I really want to know if RTL (or tRTL) could be equals or must be 1 time apart, since the guide in here tells that dont do same RTL. so yeah im pretty stuck at this. leaving them on all Auto will make the RTL Init at 67 both, Compensation 21, tRTL always on 59 and 60, tIOL on 6 and 7. the only way to adjust the tRTL are by increasing tIOL. so pretty much you know im so confused here :"
> 
> Im thinking to adjust the on die termination but i dont think it's necessary, i guess. Idk if my tWR and tRTP is tight but so far stable no bsods, let me know what you think


MSI likes to tighten RTL/IOLs by default, so you shouldn't need to do anything. That's something you do on other boards, like ASUS. That is why you're failing to tighten them further. ODTs shouldn't be touched unless you're trying to push for extreme frequencies (mid-4000's or higher) and need to squeeze that extra little bit of juice out.

tWR and tCWL should go as low as possible, as they can contribute to performance. Still don't get why tREFI isn't being pushed to the roof (65536).
Try tRRD_L at 4. Try tWTR_L/S as low as possible. Try tCKE as low as possible.


----------



## Koekieezz

Ichirou said:


> MSI likes to tighten RTL/IOLs by default, so you shouldn't need to do anything. That's something you do on other boards, like ASUS. That is why you're failing to tighten them further. ODTs shouldn't be touched unless you're trying to push for extreme frequencies (mid-4000's or higher) and need to squeeze that extra little bit of juice out.
> 
> tWR and tCWL should go as low as possible, as they can contribute to performance. Still don't get why tREFI isn't being pushed to the roof (65536).
> Try tRRD_L at 4. Try tWTR_L/S as low as possible. Try tCKE as low as possible.


so i leave RTL and IOL unadjusted at auto? maybe a little more explanation since i need certainity 😂.

How low tCKE should be? on ryzen 1 i possible but im not sure for intel (yes i've been learning ram timings more on amd than intel :") ). tRRDL wont post at 4. no matter how much voltage i threw in. seems to be walled. for tREFI im not sure that i would need propper cooling for the ram itself? also isnt tWTRL/S at 4/8 tight enough on intel? or its just on amd?


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> so i leave RTL and IOL unadjusted at auto? maybe a little more explanation since i need certainity 😂.
> 
> How low tCKE should be? on ryzen 1 i possible but im not sure for intel (yes i've been learning ram timings more on amd than intel :") ). tRRDL wont post at 4. no matter how much voltage i threw in. seems to be walled. for tREFI im not sure that i would need propper cooling for the ram itself? also isnt tWTRL/S at 4/8 tight enough on intel? or its just on amd?


Yes. Leave RTL/IOL Auto, since MSI boards tighten it for you automatically.

tCKE on MSI goes down as far as 1. Just keep going as low as you can.

tREFI is as high as you can. Most people just max it out at 65536 and work backwards. Making it divisible by 16 is possibly helpful.

tWTR_L/S can go as low as possible. Not reason not to unless there is performance regression.


----------



## gilor80

I am looking to buy new ram for overclocking, what do you recommend? (Do not refer to the price I get them for the same price)
F4-4000C15D-16GTZR
F4-4000C16D-16GTZRA
F4-4000C16D-16GTZNA


Thanks!


----------



## ::>_<::

I have two 1Rx16 dimm with d9zfw die (micron 16Gb Rev.E)
I tried to overclock it on a rog strix z590-a ii with 11700k I could reach 4200MT with VCCIO2 1.2V VCCSA Auto and Dimm 1.4V but it is extremely instable without enabling all of the * in the training algorithms.
However, it would still throw a lot of errors in a test and I enabled DQ DFE training the number of errors reduced but it is not fully stable.
What should I do if I want to overclock it to 4266?


----------



## Ichirou

::>_<:: said:


> I have two 1Rx16 dimm with d9zfw die (micron 16Gb Rev.E)
> I tried to overclock it on a rog strix z590-a ii with 11700k I could reach 4200MT with VCCIO2 1.2V VCCSA Auto and Dimm 1.4V but it is extremely instable without enabling all of the * in the training algorithms.
> However, it would still throw a lot of errors in a test and I enabled DQ DFE training the number of errors reduced but it is not fully stable.
> What should I do if I want to overclock it to 4266?


That's actually Micron B-die, not E-die. E-die doesn't come in 16 GB; that's just a mistag from Thaiphoon.

You most likely just need to throw more VDIMM at it. 1.40V is pretty low for 4,200+, unless your primaries are super loose.


----------



## ::>_<::

Ichirou said:


> That's actually Micron B-die, not E-die. E-die doesn't come in 16 GB; that's just a mistag from Thaiphoon.
> 
> You most likely just need to throw more VDIMM at it. 1.40V is pretty low for 4,200+, unless your primaries are super loose.


it is actually 16Gb E-die, not B-die, or I would push them to 4800+ easily.
raising vdimm to 1.5V vccio2 1.3v vccsa 1.3v no help when trying to stabilize on 4200. maybe something limited by the die


----------



## Shonk

Just finished 12 Hours of Karhu
Would you consider my ram stable?










Regarding Micron B or E die if its Micron sticks you can tell by the Part Number
B = B Die
E = E Die


----------



## ::>_<::

Shonk said:


> Just finished 12 Hours of Karhu
> Would you consider my ram stable?
> 
> View attachment 2554789
> 
> 
> Regarding Micron B or E die if its Micron sticks you can tell by the Part Number
> B = B Die
> E = E Die
> View attachment 2554813


Seems good. micron 8Gb Rev.E and 16Gb Rev.B are good while 16Gb Rev.E is not so good.
My 11700k could open 3733G1 with sa 1.376v and a io2 1.2V (the io2 auto value is 1.5V which is toooo high for me) but my dimm could only use CL17 at 1.45V and even I boost it to 1.504V it can't stabilize at CL16, maybe i should try 1.5+ but it is really dangerous.
haha I read the info directly from the die it has no heatsink


----------



## Martin v r

It does not say much about txsDeLL on the net, but if some should feel like it, I put mine down to 768, gave a huge sping in speed on copy


----------



## Koekieezz

Martin v r said:


> It does not say much about txsDeLL on the net, but if some should feel like it, I put mine down to 768, gave a huge sping in speed on copy


What was the initial value? i wonder if any of fourth timings are adjustable for good


----------



## Shonk

Martin v r said:


> It does not say much about txsDeLL on the net, but if some should feel like it, I put mine down to 768, gave a huge sping in speed on copy



I just tested it dropped mine from 1024 to 768 it does nothing for aida


----------



## Martin v r

Shonk said:


> I just tested it dropped mine from 1024 to 768 it does nothing for aida


my copy went from 58XXX to 60,000 
but may well be more like recording the bios / chipset???


----------



## robalm

Got this kit for 100 dollar, 8x8gb 3200 cl 14.








F4-3200C14Q2-64GVK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Ripjaws V DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 64GB (8x8GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.




www.gskill.com




That must be a good deal?


----------



## Ichirou

robalm said:


> Got this kit for 100 dollar, 8x8gb 3200 cl 14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-3200C14Q2-64GVK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Ripjaws V DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 64GB (8x8GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That must be a good deal?


Maybe. Are you using it on a Quad Channel board?

You could also bin two or four of the DIMMs and sell the rest out.


----------



## robalm

Ichirou said:


> Maybe. Are you using it on a Quad Channel board?
> 
> You could also bin two or four of the DIMMs and sell the rest out.


No sir 4 dim motherboard.
Yes that is my plan, maybe i can get 60 dollar for four sticks, so in the end i will get a good set of b-die 32gb dual rank for 40 dollar


----------



## postem

Hi, im on Ballistix 32gb (2x16) 3600 16-18-18 at 4000 16-19-19. 
Im considering to test a memory kit (aasgard) that is confirmed as B-die, 4000 16-16-16. Just considering it because its very cheap, but have an issue: only 2x8 kits, so i would need to run 4 dimms.

Considering motherboard (tuf z690) and cpu 12900K, what are a reasonable frequency i can get on this RAM? I will be able to run fully XMP? I know its a far fetch question, and few people here tried asgard memory.


----------



## GeneO

I am happy to get my g.skill 3200 MHz/CL14 bdie 4x16 GB (two separate 2x16 kits) to 3600 14-15-35 @ dram voltage of 1.47v and Vccsa/Vccio at 1.16/1.14v.
Can't really get anything beyond 3600 MHz on these 4 DIMM, though I probably won't quit trying 

Any suggestions for tightening up?


----------



## The Pook

GeneO said:


> I am happy to get my g.skill 3200 MHz/CL14 bdie 4x16 GB (two separate 2x16 kits) to 3600 14-15-35 @ dram voltage of 1.47v and Vccsa/Vccio at 1.16/1.14v.
> Can't really get anything beyond 3600 MHz on these 4 DIMM, though I probably won't quit trying
> 
> Any suggestions for tightening up?
> View attachment 2555053


everything? just looks like subs/tertiaries are on auto


----------



## GeneO

The Pook said:


> everything? just looks like subs/tertiaries are on auto


Yep. I don't want to go to much higher on the Vdimm or Vccsa/Vccio


----------



## Ichirou

GeneO said:


> Yep. I don't want to go to much higher on the Vdimm or Vccsa/Vccio


Most secondaries and tertiaries don't need an increase of VDIMM or IMC voltage. Just tighten them as much as you can.


----------



## Ichirou

postem said:


> Hi, im on Ballistix 32gb (2x16) 3600 16-18-18 at 4000 16-19-19.
> Im considering to test a memory kit (aasgard) that is confirmed as B-die, 4000 16-16-16. Just considering it because its very cheap, but have an issue: only 2x8 kits, so i would need to run 4 dimms.
> 
> Considering motherboard (tuf z690) and cpu 12900K, what are a reasonable frequency i can get on this RAM? I will be able to run fully XMP? I know its a far fetch question, and few people here tried asgard memory.


16/32 GB is pretty much guaranteed to run Gear 1 stable at 4,000 MHz tightened on a 12900K/KF/KS.
It's going above that frequency which might be dodgy.
There isn't much empirical evidence about running four DIMMs though. There's no more T-Topology, so it could be a dice roll.
Might be easier if you're just running Single Rank DIMMs.


----------



## Taraquin

Intel officially announces that locked ADL can not adjust SA-voltage (0.89-0.98v standard) and hence ram OC is usually limited to 3400-3600 in gear 1.

*Summary*
Explains that System Agent (SA) voltage is locked on non-K SKU Processors for a good starter experience of memory overclocking, not a replacement for the Pro/Best features of a K-SKU/Z-series combination.
*Description*
Unable to adjust SA voltage on non-K 12th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors.
*Resolution*
Intel expanded the capabilities of our platforms by allowing some memory overclocking features for non-K processors on non-Z-series motherboards. This was not a complete duplication of the feature set of a K-SKU processor on a Z-series motherboard. It is intended to be a good experience, not a replacement for the Pro/Best features a K-SKU/Z-series combination.
The table below shows the expectation:

 *Non-K SKU Processor with Select PCH SKUs**K SKU Processor*VccDDQ Voltage ControlYesYesPMIC Voltages1YesYesSA Voltage ControlNoYesMemory OC ExpectationStarter/GoodPro/Best









Why Is System Agent (SA) Voltage Locked on Non-K 12th Generation...


Explains that System Agent (SA) voltage is locked on non-K SKU Processors for a good starter experience of memory overclocking, not a replacement for the Pro/Best features of a K-SKU/Z-series combination.




www.intel.com


----------



## Taraquin

GeneO said:


> Yep. I don't want to go to much higher on the Vdimm or Vccsa/Vccio


You should have no problem running RFC at 280 if you use 1.4V on ram. tREFI at 65536, rrds 4, rrdl 6, faw 16, wr 14, rtp 7. Try that, should boost performance quite a lot!


----------



## Koekieezz

Martin v r said:


> my copy went from 58XXX to 60,000
> but may well be more like recording the bios / chipset???


@Martin v r For me it took some loop test to actually see the differences, well it is not by much, but it went on avg 42.5 ish from 43.x ish with tXSDLL at 1024. Honestly i dont really know should i do another stability test, or just go with this. Do you know how to calculate this tXSDLL, or give an explaining of this timings, and what the timings is related to? I would like to know the advanced timings that i left untouched except for tXP and tREFIx9 are any useful to be tuned.









Also @Ichirou, i did a quick OC test on 4133 CL18, all the subtimings are the same except for tRDRD SG/DG and tWRWR SG/DG are at 8/4, from my personal 7/4, and RTL INIT Value at 68/69, seems not too bad? i would test it tomorrow, since this is the pseudo stable i test (every timings i tightened, i test it with TM5 Absolut for 2 mins before changing another one). Idk if my pseudo settings are ok enough given the tCL18(18-21-21-42), which is 2 ticks higher then my previous timings at 3600.


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> @Martin v r For me it took some loop test to actually see the differences, well it is not by much, but it went on avg 42.5 ish from 43.x ish with tXSDLL at 1024. Honestly i dont really know should i do another stability test, or just go with this. Do you know how to calculate this tXSDLL, or give an explaining of this timings, and what the timings is related to? I would like to know the advanced timings that i left untouched except for tXP and tREFIx9 are any useful to be tuned.
> View attachment 2555246
> 
> 
> Also @Ichirou, i did a quick OC test on 4133 CL18, all the subtimings are the same except for tRDRD SG/DG and tWRWR SG/DG are at 8/4, from my personal 7/4, and RTL INIT Value at 68/69, seems not too bad? i would test it tomorrow, since this is the pseudo stable i test (every timings i tightened, i test it with TM5 Absolut for 2 mins before changing another one). Idk if my pseudo settings are ok enough given the tCL18(18-21-21-42), which is 2 ticks higher then my previous timings at 3600.


There isn't really enough empirical evidence of the effect of all of the extra subtimings, since most people use ASUS and not MSI (it's a little messier on ASUS), and don't really have the time or willingness to spend on actually analyzing them.
You can be the first to do so to document your findings, if you wish. Would benefit the community as a whole.
I have plans to do so myself, but I'm looking to finalize my Z690 build first before doing so, as it'll be a permanent system for the foreseeable future.

The easiest approach is to test it in "chunks", without stability testing each change. Just run it though AIDA64 like five times each change and average it out.
For example, with something like tXPDLL, you would first enter 0 or 1 (for minimum), test it, record scores. Then you'd enter 9999999 (to max it out), test it, record scores.
Then you would enter half of the max value that the BIOS reverts to (maybe round it to the next value divisible by 8), test it, and record scores.
If the timing has a meaningful effect on the RAM, there should be a noticeable improvement with either the two extremes or the median. If there wasn't anything noticeable, revert it on Auto and move onto the next timing.

Most tRDRD_sg/tWRWR_sg and tRDRD_dg/tWRWR_dg tend to stop around 7 at the minimum, although some really nicely binned RAM can get to 6, at 3,600+ MHz.
RTL is, again, automatically tightened on an MSI, so you generally don't need to do anything, but you _can_ attempt to pull the lower if you wish.
For your kit, since it's on 59/60 and 4/5, you can attempt to manually enter 59/59 and 4/4. It might work.


----------



## ivanosh

Hello guys!
My config:
*CPU: i7-12700 (non-K)
MBO: Asus Prime B660M-A D4
RAM: Kingston KF3600C18D4/16GX 2 pieces (Hynix AJR, Single Rank)*

As all 12x00 non-K users I can't handle with 3600 Gear1 here, so best I achieved is:
*3500 17-21-21-38 CR2 on Gear1 v1.35
4000 18-22-22-42 CR1 on Gear2 v1.35

3600 Gear1* very unstable
I was trying to get smth higher on Gear2 but no success.* 4200, 4400 at v1.4, v1.5, CL19, CL20* in different variations are not stable.
Is it RAM issue or I doing smth wrong? It's my first OC experience so I'm fully noob here. Timings I using -- just timings I found for similar RAMs on reddit/this forum. I have no clue how to calculate it. Need I just iterate different combination or there are some patterns exists?

I was testing both stable variants with CP77 and StarCitizen and noticed that 4000 Gear2 feels smoother in StarCitizen (less stutters). Is it ok?

Will be glad to see any advice!

RAM specs:









Results:


----------



## Ichirou

ivanosh said:


> Hello guys!
> My config:
> *CPU: i7-12700 (non-K)
> MBO: Asus Prime B660M-A D4
> RAM: Kingston KF3600C18D4/16GX 2 pieces (Hynix AJR, Single Rank)*
> 
> As all 12x00 non-K users I can't handle with 3600 Gear1 here, so best I achieved is:
> *3500 17-21-21-38 CR2 on Gear1 v1.35
> 4000 18-22-22-42 CR1 on Gear2 v1.35
> 
> 3600 Gear1* very unstable
> I was trying to get smth higher on Gear2 but no success.* 4200, 4400 at v1.4, v1.5, CL19, CL20* in different variations are not stable.
> Is it RAM issue or I doing smth wrong? It's my first OC experience so I'm fully noob here. Timings I using -- just timings I found for similar RAMs on reddit/this forum. I have no clue how to calculate it. Need I just iterate different combination or there are some patterns exists?
> 
> I was testing both stable variants with CP77 and StarCitizen and noticed that 4000 Gear2 feels smoother in StarCitizen (less stutters). Is it ok?
> 
> Will be glad to see any advice!
> 
> RAM specs:
> View attachment 2555342
> 
> 
> Results:
> View attachment 2555341
> View attachment 2555340


Perception is just that; it can be difficult to perceive the difference of a little bit in performance in things like gaming.
You have to do benchmarks to tell actual differences.

Find some games that offer internal benchmarks, and compare the overall average FPS and 1% scores.


----------



## ivanosh

Ichirou said:


> Perception is just that; it can be difficult to perceive the difference of a little bit in performance in things like gaming.
> You have to do benchmarks to tell actual differences.
> 
> Find some games that offer internal benchmarks, and compare the overall average FPS and 1% scores.


And what do you think about my RAM? Is it possible to achieve smth better than I have now? Or it's AJRs are crappy?


----------



## Ichirou

ivanosh said:


> And what do you think about my RAM? Is it possible to achieve smth better than I have now? Or it's AJRs are crappy?


Don't expect too much out of AJR. Best you can do now is to tighten the subtimings.


----------



## Taraquin

ivanosh said:


> Hello guys!
> My config:
> *CPU: i7-12700 (non-K)
> MBO: Asus Prime B660M-A D4
> RAM: Kingston KF3600C18D4/16GX 2 pieces (Hynix AJR, Single Rank)*
> 
> As all 12x00 non-K users I can't handle with 3600 Gear1 here, so best I achieved is:
> *3500 17-21-21-38 CR2 on Gear1 v1.35
> 4000 18-22-22-42 CR1 on Gear2 v1.35
> 
> 3600 Gear1* very unstable
> I was trying to get smth higher on Gear2 but no success.* 4200, 4400 at v1.4, v1.5, CL19, CL20* in different variations are not stable.
> Is it RAM issue or I doing smth wrong? It's my first OC experience so I'm fully noob here. Timings I using -- just timings I found for similar RAMs on reddit/this forum. I have no clue how to calculate it. Need I just iterate different combination or there are some patterns exists?
> 
> I was testing both stable variants with CP77 and StarCitizen and noticed that 4000 Gear2 feels smoother in StarCitizen (less stutters). Is it ok?
> 
> Will be glad to see any advice!
> 
> RAM specs:
> View attachment 2555342
> 
> 
> Results:
> View attachment 2555341
> View attachment 2555340


I can run 3600cl15-19-19 1t gear 1 on my 12400F and Asus B660m K, 3700 is slightly unstable. Locked SA voltage is the sole reason. What is your SA voltage? Mine is stuck at 0.95v, but some users have theirs at 0.89v-0.98v. If you have a good cooler you get higher since low temps helps on gear 1 stability. 

As for AJR I helped my nephew tune his kit with a Ryzen 5600X.
Best stable was:
3800 16 21 21 37 58
Rrds/l/faw 5/7/20
Wr/rtp 16/8
Rfc 560
2t
1.4v

Generally they behave like a bad CJR and dislike low rcdrd/rp and rfc. Better than Samsung C/D/E and Hynix AFR though, but worse than Hynix CJR/DJR, and Mucron rev E and B 16gb.


----------



## rulik006

bscool said:


> I would buy it. Any of the kits is lotto. I have seen people get* very good bins of the 4000c17* kits also.


Royal 2x16* 4000c16/4000c17/4266c17*
2020 can do 4000c14 1.55v
2021/2022 are worst about 30mv+ and worse than 3600c14 bin of Corsair/Patriot/Team/Oloy


----------



## Ichirou

rulik006 said:


> Royal 2x16* 4000c16/4000c17/4266c17*
> 2020 can do 4000c14 1.55v
> 2021/2022 are worst about 30mv+ and worse than 3600c14 bin of Corsair/Patriot/Team/Oloy


I tried out a 3,600 CL14 2x16 DR March 2022 batch from Newegg; it needs 1.58V+ for 4,000 C14.


----------



## davidm71

Hi,
Was wondering what’s faster or better: XMP I or II?
Thanks


----------



## Ichirou

davidm71 said:


> Hi,
> Was wondering what’s faster or better: XMP I or II?
> Thanks


I'm pretty sure one is the default RAM spec XMP, while the other is XMP plus some timings being tightened by the BIOS.


----------



## Imprezzion

I will be switching from my 5900X setup back to a 11900K with a Z590 Maximus Hero that I scored used. No clue how good the chip is tho. 

What can I kinda expect frequency wise in gear 1 on a 4 DIMM Hero with 2x16GB DR B-Die? I know this kit is capable of and tested stable at 3866C14-15-13-25-240-1T @ 1.55v on AMD ("gear 1" a.k.a. synced FCLK), 4200 15-17-16-28-280-2T @ 1.63v on a 10900K and 4400 17-17-17-34-330-2T @ 1.51v on a 10900KF which both don't have selectable gear ratios.


----------



## CrankyTucan

I am getting just one error on test 5 while using absolut config with TM5. Test 5 says it is running


"[Test5]
Enable=1
Time (%)=20
Function=MirrorMove128
DLL Name=bin\MT0.dll
Pattern Mode=0
Pattern Param0=0x0
Pattern Param1=0x0
Parameter=1
Test Block Size (Mb)=0"

I just changed two timings in my bios to see. tRDRDDD to 4 and tWRWRDD to 6 (they are changed back now cause of the error). Anyone know what can cause this error and how to fix it?

Also, any recommendations since it's my first time posting?

VSOC: 1.125
DIMM: 1.53
CCD: 1.025
IOD: 1.050
VDDP: .950


----------



## rulik006

KedarWolf said:


> I bought a CL16 4000 Corsair b-die recently and my Cl16 3600 G.Skill Neo kit gets much better timings and overclock. I think you can get the CL16-16-16-36 3600 Neo or even Royal Elite pretty cheap right now.
> Much cheaper, you need the 16-16-16-36 3600, it's b-die.


I said to buy 3600c14, you didn't listen
3600c16 its a garbage, cant even pass 3600c14 at *1.43v*


Spoiler: Royal 2x16 3600c16 1.43v










robalm said:


> Been thinking about dual rank.
> I have been looking for the cheapest b-die 16x2 kit.
> This kit is the cheapest i have found.
> It looks good to me 3600 cl14, anyone?
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Vengeance-PRO-RGB-Black/p/CMW32GX4M2Z3600C14


Corsair's 2x16 3600c14 is a high quallity B-die better than 90% offers available on market



Spoiler: Vengeance LPX 2x8 3600c14 1.40v



Boot 1.36v, 1.40v stable








Spoiler: Dominator Platinum RGB 2x16 3600c14 1.40v










Spoiler: Oloy Blade RGB 2x8 3600c14 1.40v












XMP 3600 14-14 1.40v
4000 14-15 1.55v pass
4000 14-14 1.55v fail
















Its funny, but most G.skill B-die memory is equal to Corsair's usual 3200c16 4.31 2019+


Spoiler: Dominator Platinum 2x16 3200c16 







[/url]


----------



## davidm71

Ichirou said:


> I'm pretty sure one is the default RAM spec XMP, while the other is XMP plus some timings being tightened by the BIOS.



I know that but all the OC guides say use XMP II. Wonder why and if its faster than bios assigned timings?

Thanks

EDIT:

Found this quote in this guide: Intel 11900K / Z590 Overclocking Guide | Overclocking



> The big changes here with the Gear Ratios can be found under “Extreme Tweaker”>”Memory Controller: DRAM Frequency Controller”. If you’re not doing anything extreme here chances are you can leave this to “Auto”. Gear 1 allows Intel’s traditional 1:1 ratio on the memory controller up to 3200MHz. This setting adheres to JDEC specifications and allows for a ceiling range of around 3600MHz-3800MHz depending on your CPU. The 1:1 ratio is favourable among low latency applications like gaming. Gear 2 however is how Intel’s new CPUs can reach frequencies beyond 5000MHz. Gear 2 is favored for higher data transfer rates but at the cost of latency. It isn’t as bad as it sounds and this all sounds familiar because AMD has had a similar setup with its Ryzen CPUs. Gear 2 allows for a more relaxed 2:1 ratio which puts less strain on the IMC. I set “DRAM Voltage” to 1.35V for my Vengeance PRO kit.


So it seems that the reason they go for XMP II is to relax the IMC so you can overclock your cpu frequency higher but games prefer XMP I because the latencies are tighter. As I am not looking for a major high overclock and using ddr4 3200mhz ram I will stick to Gear I. Unless I find instability with the memory due to dual rank config but I doubt that will be an issue.


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> What can I kinda expect frequency wise in gear 1 on a 4 DIMM Hero with 2x16GB DR B-Die?* I know this kit is capable of [...] 4200 15-17-16-28-280-2T @ 1.63v on a 10900K*


10th gen can't run tRCD and tRP at anything but 1:1, you might have put in 15-17-16 but it was just running 15-17-17. 

I haven't played with 11th gen but afaik 3733 to 3866 is about all you'll get stable. Luumi topped out at 3733 + 102 BCLK on his


----------



## ivanosh

Taraquin said:


> I can run 3600cl15-19-19 1t gear 1 on my 12400F and Asus B660m K, 3700 is slightly unstable. Locked SA voltage is the sole reason. What is your SA voltage? Mine is stuck at 0.95v, but some users have theirs at 0.89v-0.98v. If you have a good cooler you get higher since low temps helps on gear 1 stability.
> 
> As for AJR I helped my nephew tune his kit with a Ryzen 5600X.
> Best stable was:
> 3800 16 21 21 37 58
> Rrds/l/faw 5/7/20
> Wr/rtp 16/8
> Rfc 560
> 2t
> 1.4v
> 
> Generally they behave like a bad CJR and dislike low rcdrd/rp and rfc. Better than Samsung C/D/E and Hynix AFR though, but worse than Hynix CJR/DJR, and Mucron rev E and B 16gb.


Here is my CPU voltages:









I tried your timings for AJR but on 3600 Gear1 and RAM is unstable anyway.
Now testing 3500 15-19-19-35 and there is no difference with 17-21-21-38 in AIDA🤔


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> 10th gen can't run tRCD and tRP at anything but 1:1, you might have put in 15-17-16 but it was just running 15-17-17.
> 
> I haven't played with 11th gen but afaik 3733 to 3866 is about all you'll get stable. Luumi topped out at 3733 + 102 BCLK on his


That would explain not gaining any performance lol. I got used to the 5900X which can do that. Runs 3866 15-15-13-25-240-1T at the moment..

So, on 11th gen, what would be better for pure gaming, high freq gear 2 (4533C18 for example) or gear 1 3733/3800 ish at C14/15? And can I run them out of sync on 11th gen? My B-Die's hate low RCD but can drop RP quite far on AMD.


----------



## Taraquin

Imprezzion said:


> That would explain not gaining any performance lol. I got used to the 5900X which can do that. Runs 3866 15-15-13-25-240-1T at the moment..
> 
> So, on 11th gen, what would be better for pure gaming, high freq gear 2 (4533C18 for example) or gear 1 3733/3800 ish at C14/15? And can I run them out of sync on 11th gen? My B-Die's hate low RCD but can drop RP quite far on AMD.


Gear 1 at 3733-3866 is best, but you will get lower gaming perf compared to 5900X... I think rcd/rp is still synced, but you can change trefi, that can boost perf. 65536 is best if stable.


----------



## The Pook

tRCD and tRP is synced on 10th gen and isn't on 12th gen, no idea on 11th since I haven't touched it 🙃

if you're switching just to have something to tinker with then go ahead but yeah, it's a lateral move at best compared to a 5900X.

Gear 1 vs 2 isn't as big of a hit as 2:1 IF on AMD, it's _mostly_ just a latency hit. Some things will prefer higher RAM speed and some will like the lower latency.


----------



## GeneO

Taraquin said:


> You should have no problem running RFC at 280 if you use 1.4V on ram. tREFI at 65536, rrds 4, rrdl 6, faw 16, wr 14, rtp 7. Try that, should boost performance quite a lot!


thanks I will try that!


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> tRCD and tRP is synced on 10th gen and isn't on 12th gen, no idea on 11th since I haven't touched it 🙃
> 
> if you're switching just to have something to tinker with then go ahead but yeah, it's a lateral move at best compared to a 5900X.
> 
> Gear 1 vs 2 isn't as big of a hit as 2:1 IF on AMD, it's _mostly_ just a latency hit. Some things will prefer higher RAM speed and some will like the lower latency.


I'm switching because of AMD's terrible handling if the windows 11 fTPM stuttering and the fact any newer BIOS that actually fixes that limits PBO2 OC to 1.425v or on the newer BIOS even less when using EDC >140 (a 5900x needs like, 170 ish). So, I lose a whole bunch of performance just to fix a fTPM stuttering bug that shouldn't have existed in the first place. I also have a B550 board with only 2 M.2 slots and I want a 3rd drive so would need a whole new X570 board. And I'm bored of it already as the CPU is basically set and forget auto OC with PBO2 and the RAM is also locked because my FCLK can't go higher so nothing to tweak with anymore.

Then I found this 11900K+Maximum XIII Hero for a good price and was like.. yolo...

Now to decide if I delid it straight away or not..


----------



## The Pook

if you get a silicon loser 11900K are you gonna stick with it? if not then I'd wait. easier to sell a stock CPU and just omit how well it does/doesn't OC than it is to claim ignorance on a delidded CPU 🙃


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> if you get a silicon loser 11900K are you gonna stick with it? if not then I'd wait. easier to sell a stock CPU and just omit how well it does/doesn't OC than it is to claim ignorance on a delidded CPU 🙃


Good point. Sticking with it depends completely on the used market. If someone sells a 11900K or KF for a good price locally I probably will get it to bin vs the one I got now unless this one is a good one already. Besides, I doubt a rockitcool 10th gen delid tool works for 11th. It's not listed and I think 11th has some caps in rather awkward spots. We'll see how good the EK Velocity D-RGB Nickel Plexi I got will cool it. I'll stick with paste in stead of LM as well.


----------



## SoloCamo

So my Asus TUF Z590 is pushing 1.312 as the auto voltage setting for VCCIO. From my understanding this is way too high. I'm still running my 32gb (2x 16gb) T-Force Vulcan 3600 cl18 kit at 4000 cl18 / 1.45v (stock is 1.35). I've just turned the VCCIO down to 1.28 but for a 10900 / z590 setup is there an average 'safe 24/7' voltage for VCCIO I should be aiming for stability wise?


----------



## Ichirou

SoloCamo said:


> So my Asus TUF Z590 is pushing 1.312 as the auto voltage setting for VCCIO. From my understanding this is way too high. I'm still running my 32gb (2x 16gb) T-Force Vulcan 3600 cl18 kit at 4000 cl18 / 1.45v (stock is 1.35). I've just turned the VCCIO down to 1.28 but for a 10900 / z590 setup is there an average 'safe 24/7' voltage for VCCIO I should be aiming for stability wise?


Both VCCSA and VCCIO are safe up to 1.35V.
But for only 4,000 MHz, you shouldn't need more than 1.30V max for both.


----------



## SoloCamo

Ichirou said:


> Both VCCSA and VCCIO are safe up to 1.35V.
> But for only 4,000 MHz, you shouldn't need more than 1.30V max for both.


Thanks as always. I'll see if 1.28 sticks, if not I'll hop it back to 1.3 instead of the 1.312. So far so good.


----------



## Taraquin

ivanosh said:


> Here is my CPU voltages:
> View attachment 2555524
> 
> 
> I tried your timings for AJR but on 3600 Gear1 and RAM is unstable anyway.
> Now testing 3500 15-19-19-35 and there is no difference with 17-21-21-38 in AIDA🤔


Try a different test than aida, if there is no difference between 15 19 19 and 17 21 21 something is wrong. Your bin is quite good if 15 19 19 is stable. Best we could do at 3600 on my nephews kit was 15 20 20.


----------



## Imprezzion

I still find the scaling on my B-Die quite weird. It will not do any set of primary timings equal. Almost always needs RP and RCD +1. CAS scales quite weirdly as well. 3800 cannot do 14 without going >1.6v but it will hold 15 all the way up to 4200 15-17-17 @ 1.58v stable. Then 4400 can't do 16 at all and needs 17 again.


----------



## Taraquin

Imprezzion said:


> I still find the scaling on my B-Die quite weird. It will not do any set of primary timings equal. Almost always needs RP and RCD +1. CAS scales quite weirdly as well. 3800 cannot do 14 without going >1.6v but it will hold 15 all the way up to 4200 15-17-17 @ 1.58v stable. Then 4400 can't do 16 at all and needs 17 again.


Generally most ram scales like +200MHz speed=+1 on all prims and % increase on rc/rfc while most other timings can stay the same (rdwr, wtr can see some slight scaling, rrds, wr, faw, rtp, refi etc generally don't scale. B-die is very temp-sensitive, and some kits has major issues with low cl or rcdrd values.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I still find the scaling on my B-Die quite weird. It will not do any set of primary timings equal. Almost always needs RP and RCD +1. CAS scales quite weirdly as well. 3800 cannot do 14 without going >1.6v but it will hold 15 all the way up to 4200 15-17-17 @ 1.58v stable. Then 4400 can't do 16 at all and needs 17 again.


tRCD is binned separately from tCAS.
And some bins are fussy with overly tight tCAS.


----------



## Imprezzion

What's the whole deal with Rocket Lake and the "preferred" memory ratios. BIOS tells me that 4400Mhz is not a preferred ratio but it's kinda the only ratio I can run on gear 2 that makes any sense lol. 4533 is too much for my DIMM's to run decent timings on and 4266 is not enough to make it faster then 3866 gear 1. 4400 is pretty much perfect and at least I can do straight 17's then.

I did a quick gear 1 test and it boots and runs TM5 1usmus just fine at 3866, 4000 gear 1 won't POST. Was running a very quick and dirty 16-16-16-28-280-2T with somewhat tweaked secondaries but auto RTL and it did 59GB bandwidth all round and 46.6ns latency. That ain't bad. As expected 1T is impossible on this 4 DIMM Hero board tho. Shame.


----------



## mouacyk

Any suggestions for improvement?


----------



## Taraquin

mouacyk said:


> Any suggestions for improvement?
> View attachment 2556335


Rtp 5 if possible, rtp should be half wr.


----------



## mouacyk

Taraquin said:


> Rtp 5 if possible, rtp should be half wr.


Thanks, I set to 5 but it booted at 6, so that must be the minimum for me. Got a few hundred MB bump in AIDA, and re-running my stability tests now.


----------



## Taraquin

mouacyk said:


> Thanks, I set to 5 but it booted at 6, so that must be the minimum for me. Got a few hundred MB bump in AIDA, and re-running my stability tests now.


I would try WR 12 then, it may run better when wr/rtp is synced 2:1


----------



## mouacyk

Taraquin said:


> I would try WR 12 then, it may run better when wr/rtp is synced 2:1


Thanks again. I'll take it and experiment.


----------



## Ichirou

mouacyk said:


> Thanks again. I'll take it and experiment.


Secondaries always boil down to AIDA testing each timing change to see which values offers better performance. There isn't a set formula.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, this ASUS Maximus XIII Hero is a lot more complicated to set manual memory tertiary timings and RTL/IO on then my MSI Z490 Ace was lol.

Still, the Ace could easily do 38.xx ns latency on 3866C15 however this 11900K on gear 1 on 3866C15 with less optimized but still tweaked timings struggles to even go below 47ns. 

4400C17 untweaked gear 2 does ~48ns but with way way more bandwidth. 

I run 54x2 53x4 52x8 on the cores with 4.7 cache on the 11900K btw. 

What is the normal latency range for both gear 1 and 2 on a 11th gen. Is it just higher in general compared to 9th and 10th gen or am I doing something very wrong lol. No amount of tweaking will ever get a full 10ns off this imho..


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Well, this ASUS Maximus XIII Hero is a lot more complicated to set manual memory tertiary timings and RTL/IO on then my MSI Z490 Ace was lol.
> 
> Still, the Ace could easily do 38.xx ns latency on 3866C15 however this 11900K on gear 1 on 3866C15 with less optimized but still tweaked timings struggles to even go below 47ns.
> 
> 4400C17 untweaked gear 2 does ~48ns but with way way more bandwidth.
> 
> I run 54x2 53x4 52x8 on the cores with 4.7 cache on the 11900K btw.
> 
> What is the normal latency range for both gear 1 and 2 on a 11th gen. Is it just higher in general compared to 9th and 10th gen or am I doing something very wrong lol. No amount of tweaking will ever get a full 10ns off this imho..


That doesn't seem right for Gear 1. But it might be because 3,866 MHz C15 in itself isn't that extreme of an overclock.
Can you show an ATC readout?


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> That doesn't seem right for Gear 1. But it might be because 3,866 MHz C15 in itself isn't that extreme of an overclock.
> Can you show an ATC readout?


It'll be memtweakit as ATC won't load the drivers, neither 4.0.3 nor 4.0.4 seems to work.

Let me load the profile back up as I was on 4400C17 gear 2 running TM5. Sec. Training takes ages on this board.



















This is about the best latency I have seen so far. It's freaking unstable like this tho. It even crashed Chrome while uploading the screenshot lol. This was pure for comparison sake.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> It'll be memtweakit as ATC won't load the drivers, neither 4.0.3 nor 4.0.4 seems to work.
> 
> Let me load the profile back up as I was on 4400C17 gear 2 running TM5. Sec. Training takes ages on this board.
> 
> View attachment 2556352
> 
> 
> View attachment 2556354
> 
> 
> This is about the best latency I have seen so far. It's freaking unstable like this tho. It even crashed Chrome while uploading the screenshot lol. This was pure for comparison sake.


Hm. And everything is set up pretty much the same?
Have you tried resetting the OS? I found that when I swapped from ASUS to MSI, it caused some issues. Had to reset it to fix that.
Also, try running AIDA in Safe Mode to rule out any bloat that might be weighing on it due to the OS.


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> Hm. And everything is set up pretty much the same?
> Have you tried resetting the OS? I found that when I swapped from ASUS to MSI, it caused some issues. Had to reset it to fix that.
> Also, try running AIDA in Safe Mode to rule out any bloat that might be weighing on it due to the OS.


Oh no.. this OS is 3 boards old lol. First the 10900KF, then the 5900X, now this 11900K lol. 



















I have not touched any of the tertiaries or RTL/IO whatsoever. Only primary and secondary. For some reason tWR is 11 even tho I set 12 but yeah.. 

Here, Gear 2 4533C17 can do this. Which would obviously be better. These DIMM's are mediocre binned so I doubt I can fully stabilize this but i'll try lol.
The 3866 15-15-15-25-252 is identical to the setup I ran on the 5900X on 1:1 FCLK and was stable there.


----------



## Taraquin

Remember to max out tTEDI, 65535 is max I think, this is important for performance.


----------



## Ichirou

A lot of factors can tie into lower AIDA scores, even instability as well, since it might hitch at some point during the test.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Well, this ASUS Maximus XIII Hero is a lot more complicated to set manual memory tertiary timings and RTL/IO on then my MSI Z490 Ace was lol.
> 
> Still, the Ace could easily do 38.xx ns latency on 3866C15 however this 11900K on gear 1 on 3866C15 with less optimized but still tweaked timings struggles to even go below 47ns.
> 
> 4400C17 untweaked gear 2 does ~48ns but with way way more bandwidth.
> 
> I run 54x2 53x4 52x8 on the cores with 4.7 cache on the 11900K btw.
> 
> What is the normal latency range for both gear 1 and 2 on a 11th gen. Is it just higher in general compared to 9th and 10th gen or am I doing something very wrong lol. No amount of tweaking will ever get a full 10ns off this imho..


You cannot manually set rtls on 11th gen. unless it has changed since I used 11th gen. I havent used it in a bit since I am on 12th gen.

When I had z590 Hero and 11900k gear 1 in the 38ns range and gear 2 43ns range from what I remember.


----------



## napata

Imprezzion said:


> It'll be memtweakit as ATC won't load the drivers, neither 4.0.3 nor 4.0.4 seems to work.
> 
> Let me load the profile back up as I was on 4400C17 gear 2 running TM5. Sec. Training takes ages on this board.
> 
> View attachment 2556352
> 
> 
> View attachment 2556354
> 
> 
> This is about the best latency I have seen so far. It's freaking unstable like this tho. It even crashed Chrome while uploading the screenshot lol. This was pure for comparison sake.


Most likely your mobo can't actually handle 3866 so in order to boot it brings up the RTLs and your latency goes to ****. What's your RTLs like? Also what's your latency like at 3733?

I can get 45-46ns on a CJR kit with stock primaries at 3600-16-19-19-39 to give a comparison point.


----------



## Imprezzion

napata said:


> Most likely your mobo can't actually handle 3866 so in order to boot it brings up the RTLs and your latency goes to ****. What's your RTLs like? Also what's your latency like at 3733?
> 
> I can get 45-46ns on a CJR kit with stock primaries at 3600-16-19-19-39 to give a comparison point.





















Not fully stable, one error #8 and one error #1 in TM5 in 1.5 hours. Close tho. 1.59v vDIMM so no more room. I'm going back to 15-15-15, CAS14 just needs too much voltage.
It sits in the 43.x ns range. This is Gear 1 at 4500 cache.

EDIT:
Yeah right. Updated Windows and let it reboot 3 times, now somehow it magically reads these RTL/IO's and thinks it's running 4400C17 Gear 2 on 1T command rate.. funny thing is, CPU-Z and HWINFO64 agrees....

That's simply not possible lol.


























AIDA also confirms CR1. BIOS also shows me the RTL/IO values. Well, k then... I guess Mode 2 Maximus Tweaker is some absolute magic...


----------



## postem

Ichirou said:


> 16/32 GB is pretty much guaranteed to run Gear 1 stable at 4,000 MHz tightened on a 12900K/KF/KS.
> It's going above that frequency which might be dodgy.
> There isn't much empirical evidence about running four DIMMs though. There's no more T-Topology, so it could be a dice roll.
> Might be easier if you're just running Single Rank DIMMs.


Yea this kit is single rank, but 4 dimms. My current dual rank 2 dimms works with somewhat good timings 16-19-19 on 2x16 @ 4000 gear 1


----------



## Ichirou

postem said:


> Yea this kit is single rank, but 4 dimms. My current dual rank 2 dimms works with somewhat good timings 16-19-19 on 2x16 @ 4000 gear 1


On the Strix, the QVL lists only claim to support up to 3,600 MHz for 4x8 GB, so I wouldn't expect anything better than that on Gear 1.
The MSI Edge on the other hand lists support for plenty of quad DIMM kits all the way up to 4,400 MHz, though. So it would strictly be an IMC issue at that point for Gear 1.


----------



## Martin v r

G.skill best set 2x16GB with single side mem.so only with mem block on one side,what what should i look for


----------



## Ichirou

Martin v r said:


> G.skill best set 2x16GB with single side mem.so only with mem block on one side,what what should i look for


You mean... Single Rank?
Single Rank 2x16 GB doesn't exist for G.Skill, since they use Samsung and Hynix.
I'm pretty sure only Micron B-die comes in 16 GB Single Rank DIMMs.


----------



## YaqY

Ichirou said:


> You mean... Single Rank?
> Single Rank 2x16 GB doesn't exist for G.Skill, since they use Samsung and Hynix.
> I'm pretty sure only Micron B-die comes in 16 GB Single Rank DIMMs.


Thats not true, they have used Micron Rev B in their kits before and use 16Gbit Hynix CJR and AJR heavily on their non bdie high speed bin kits. They also used Hynix MJR 16Gbit in the past too.


----------



## Ichirou

YaqY said:


> Thats not true, they have used Micron Rev B in their kits before and use 16Gbit Hynix CJR and AJR heavily on their non bdie high speed bin kits. They also used Hynix MJR 16Gbit in the past too.


I stand corrected


----------



## Taraquin

Ichirou said:


> You mean... Single Rank?
> Single Rank 2x16 GB doesn't exist for G.Skill, since they use Samsung and Hynix.
> I'm pretty sure only Micron B-die comes in 16 GB Single Rank DIMMs.


Hynix AJR and MJR comes as 16gb SR, but that is terrible ram...


----------



## Martin v r

which flour should I then look for that can be pumped in bandwidth MHZ in 2x32GB,would like to have some that can handle an overclock up around 44 / 4500MHZ at low cl


----------



## Taraquin

Martin v r said:


> which flour should I then look for that can be pumped in bandwidth MHZ in 2x32GB,would like to have some that can handle an overclock up around 44 / 4500MHZ at low cl


Crucial ballistix max 4000+ 2x16, they should be rev B SR.


----------



## Martin v r

Taraquin said:


> Crucial ballistix max 4000+ 2x16, they should be rev B SR.





Taraquin said:


> Crucial ballistix max 4000+ 2x16, they should be rev B SR.


ty,they do not get very good publicity


----------



## Taraquin

Martin v r said:


> ty,they do not get very good publicity


Crucial only uses Micron since they are owned by Micron. There is a slim chance that 4000 can be rev E dual rank, but rev B are generally better so far more likely. Often you can go to Crucials website and confirm if they are SR. They have a kit that do 4400cl19-19-19, that is B-due territory (except rfc which is 500+)


----------



## Martin v r

Taraquin said:


> Crucial only uses Micron since they are owned by Micron. There is a slim chance that 4000 can be rev E dual rank, but rev B are generally better so far more likely. Often you can go to Crucials website and confirm if they are SR. They have a kit that do 4400cl19-19-19, that is B-due territory (except rfc which is 500+)


Intel here


----------



## Taraquin

Martin v r said:


> Intel here


Yes, I know


----------



## Martin v r

Taraquin said:


> Yes, I know


 Thanks it will be a set,
*Ballistix DDR4 32GB kit 4400MHz CL19 *


----------



## Taraquin

Martin v r said:


> Thanks it will be a set,
> *Ballistix DDR4 32GB kit 4400MHz CL19 *


That is a good set and probably the best you can get that is not B-die. Typically scales to 1.6v, with water good above I guess.


----------



## Ichirou

Martin v r said:


> Thanks it will be a set,
> *Ballistix DDR4 32GB kit 4400MHz CL19 *





Taraquin said:


> That is a good set and probably the best you can get that is not B-die. Typically scales to 1.6v, with water good above I guess.


I'm pretty sure that uses 2x16 GB Micron B-die DIMMs


----------



## Taraquin

Ichirou said:


> I'm pretty sure that uses 2x16 GB Micron B-die DIMMs


Rev B (Micron), not B-die (Samsung), I make that distinction


----------



## avidc

Thoughts on this 1-off rarity kit? I can't find any information or overclockers for this IC so have no information to base off of.
1.35v as it _seems_ there is rolloff. Micron F-Die? Thaiphoon burner doesn't work for me for no known reason.

ASROCK z390 extreme4 v4.3
9700k 5.0/4.7.
1.35v DIMM 
1.25v/1.25v IO/SA


----------



## Martin v r

Taraquin said:


> Crucial ballistix max 4000+ 2x16, they should be rev B SR.


----------



## Martin v r

avidc said:


> Thoughts on this 1-off rarity kit? I can't find any information or overclockers for this IC so have no information to base off of.
> 1.35v as it _seems_ there is rolloff. Micron F-Die? Thaiphoon burner doesn't work for me for no known reason.
> 
> ASROCK z390 extreme4 v4.3
> 9700k 5.0/4.7.
> 1.35v DIMM
> 1.25v/1.25v IO/SA
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559114





avidc said:


> Thoughts on this 1-off rarity kit? I can't find any information or overclockers for this IC so have no information to base off of.
> 1.35v as it _seems_ there is rolloff. Micron F-Die? Thaiphoon burner doesn't work for me for no known reason.
> 
> ASROCK z390 extreme4 v4.3
> 9700k 5.0/4.7.
> 1.35v DIMM
> 1.25v/1.25v IO/SA
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559114


----------



## nikobobich

How do my timings look Im open for improvements and suggestions just got this stable over the past few nights and over 12 hours on kahur and anta777 absolute tests. Let me know guys Thank you

VDIMM's at 1.5 and they are samsung bdie's


----------



## Martin v r

nikobobich said:


> How do my timings look Im open for improvements and suggestions just got this stable over the past few nights and over 12 hours on kahur and anta777 absolute tests. Let me know guys Thank you
> 
> VDIMM's at 1.5 and they are samsung bdie's


There's a thread for AMD, you're jumping into the Intel thread,Search results for query: amd mem sub timing but here is a good guide MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


----------



## Kicsimba

Hi folks,

i have an Asus b660i/12400f/ fury beast ddr5 5600mhz cl 40 tuned to 7072 cl32. I don’t understand why my read/write/copy speeds are low. Its should beover 100k ?I have a single module if that helps.


----------



## The Pook

Kicsimba said:


> I don’t understand why my read/write/copy speeds are low. I have a single module if that helps.


kinda answered your own question


----------



## Koekieezz

Hi guys, i've been wondering, what's your best VCCSA and IO for 4133mhz on a comet lake platform (Chips is Hynix DJR 8Gbit, 2x8gb kit)? i know that's the voltage always depends on the imc bin, but i wanted to know whats your best lowest/stablest point.

on ryzen i've achieved cl18 with tight subtimings with soc voltage at 1.1, wondering what's the the sa/io is pretty much okay to start with. not planning above 4133mhz.


----------



## Koekieezz

Kicsimba said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> i have an Asus b660i/12400f/ fury beast ddr5 5600mhz cl 40 tuned to 7072 cl32. I don’t understand why my read/write/copy speeds are low. Its should beover 100k ?I have a single module if that helps.


Update your mobo bios to the latest, and aida64 to the latest. make sure to save your profile.


----------



## Imprezzion

Could anyone by any chance explain to me how to manually change RTL/IO on a ASUS Maximus XIII Hero with a 11900K? I can't for the life of me get the RTL values to change no matter what I set in the RTL submenu.

If I use one of the memory presets (I used the B-Die 4266C17 1.45v profile) it changes, and they get unbelievably tight to the point I doubt the values are even realistic (something like 45/44 at 4266 16-16-16-28-280-2T) but it is stable. But manually setting them or going for Gear 1 using the 4266 profile and setting 3866 1:1 100:133 they go right back to 75/76 and nothing I do changes them..

Full manual OC for all the timings without using a profile or Maximus Tweak won't let me adjust them either..

I just wanted to compare bandwidth and latency and real-world game performance between 4266C16 Gear 2, 4533C17 Gear 2 and 3866C15 Gear 1 but with such a large difference in RTL the Gear 2 OC has almost the same latency as the Gear 1 does..

Right now I'm at 3866 15-15-15-30-280-2T tight secondaries, average tertiaries and 1.468v vDIMM. Pretty low, but it doesn't seem to need more for TestMem5 stability. I will push more for 3866C14 but if it won't scale RTL there's little sense in that.


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> But manually setting them or going for Gear 1 using the 4266 profile and setting 3866 1:1 100:133 they go right back to 75/76 and nothing I do changes them..


are you getting a long POST or "OC failed" message? 



> DRAM RTL INIT value [Auto]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHA) [4]
> DRAM IOL INIT value(CHB) [4]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [61]
> DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [61]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [62]
> DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [62]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [8]
> DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [8]
> CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
> CHA RFR delay [14]
> CHB RFR delay [14]
> 
> Late Command Training [Auto]
> Round Trip Latency [Disabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Auto]
> Rank Margin Tool Per Bit [Auto]
> Margin Check Limit [Disabled]
> Memory Test [Disabled]
> MRC Fast Boot [Disabled]
> Delay after Train [Disabled]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Disable DIMM0]
> Trace Centering [Disabled] Sometimes Enabled can help with instability, if required
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [2 or auto]
> Legacy Mode [Disabled]
> SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
> XTU Setting [Auto]


^ that's what I've got set (from Gen) for 4300 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## KedarWolf

Imprezzion said:


> Could anyone by any chance explain to me how to manually change RTL/IO on a ASUS Maximus XIII Hero with a 11900K? I can't for the life of me get the RTL values to change no matter what I set in the RTL submenu.
> 
> If I use one of the memory presets (I used the B-Die 4266C17 1.45v profile) it changes, and they get unbelievably tight to the point I doubt the values are even realistic (something like 45/44 at 4266 16-16-16-28-280-2T) but it is stable. But manually setting them or going for Gear 1 using the 4266 profile and setting 3866 1:1 100:133 they go right back to 75/76 and nothing I do changes them..
> 
> Full manual OC for all the timings without using a profile or Maximus Tweak won't let me adjust them either..
> 
> I just wanted to compare bandwidth and latency and real-world game performance between 4266C16 Gear 2, 4533C17 Gear 2 and 3866C15 Gear 1 but with such a large difference in RTL the Gear 2 OC has almost the same latency as the Gear 1 does..
> 
> Right now I'm at 3866 15-15-15-30-280-2T tight secondaries, average tertiaries and 1.468v vDIMM. Pretty low, but it doesn't seem to need more for TestMem5 stability. I will push more for 3866C14 but if it won't scale RTL there's little sense in that.


It might be selecting the 4266 Profile locks everything in and you can't change them. Can you set it to Manual or whatever it is on that board and manually punch in all the settings?

Never mind, you already answered that. I dunno then.


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> are you getting a long POST or "OC failed" message?
> 
> 
> 
> ^ that's what I've got set (from Gen) for 4300 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Long POST, automatically power off, then safe mode OC failed. Also, while it is 100% stable under load and in stress testing, it will not reboot. If I soft reboot from Windows it will long POST (code 55) to safe mode as well. Weird..

Going to play with it a bit before bed.

Edit: so I went in fresh starting from all Auto and went to just 3866 with primary set up and most secondaries and tertiaries left Auto. On auto RTL this gave me 74/75. I set up the timing config like you mentioned with all the training settings and set the same RTL IO values you mentioned. It code 55'd and wouldn't boot. At least to me this means it actually took the RTL IO settings now in stead of just ignoring them. Even tho it doesn't POST. Still weird how it can't seem to be able to run 61/62 at a frequency as low as 3866 but k. I'm used to some weirdness by now with this board.

It's a great board otherwise but I do honestly prefer MSI BIOS a lot for memory OC. I miss my Z490 Ace. And my 10900KF lol... I am still hunting for either a better SP 11900K or a 10900K/KF/KA just to delid and play with a bit direct die liquid metal cooled. I have the 10th gen delid tool and everything..

Edit2: it booted the second time. But RTL still the same. See pic.










It also still performs like garbage on Gear 1. Latency is at best 1.5-2ns lower at 3866C15 but bandwidth is way way down compared to 4266C16 gear 2. It also needs really high VCCSA for gear 1 3866 to be stable. Way more then gear 2 4266 does. I'm going to see if I can get 4533/4600 to stabilize. It should. The DIMM's can do it on a 5900X on AMD 1:2 IF just fine.

Edit: 4533 17-18-18-34-370-2T auto subtimings auto RTL/IO. It magically says it's doing 45/46. Yeah. Like that's ever going to happen lol.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Could anyone by any chance explain to me how to manually change RTL/IO on a ASUS Maximus XIII Hero with a 11900K? I can't for the life of me get the RTL values to change no matter what I set in the RTL submenu.
> 
> If I use one of the memory presets (I used the B-Die 4266C17 1.45v profile) it changes, and they get unbelievably tight to the point I doubt the values are even realistic (something like 45/44 at 4266 16-16-16-28-280-2T) but it is stable. But manually setting them or going for Gear 1 using the 4266 profile and setting 3866 1:1 100:133 they go right back to 75/76 and nothing I do changes them..
> 
> Full manual OC for all the timings without using a profile or Maximus Tweak won't let me adjust them either..
> 
> I just wanted to compare bandwidth and latency and real-world game performance between 4266C16 Gear 2, 4533C17 Gear 2 and 3866C15 Gear 1 but with such a large difference in RTL the Gear 2 OC has almost the same latency as the Gear 1 does..
> 
> Right now I'm at 3866 15-15-15-30-280-2T tight secondaries, average tertiaries and 1.468v vDIMM. Pretty low, but it doesn't seem to need more for TestMem5 stability. I will push more for 3866C14 but if it won't scale RTL there's little sense in that.


You cant set RTLs like you use to on older gens on z590/z690 set Round Trip Latency to enabled under Memory Algorithms will tighten them. Asus might have this enabled by default now on newer bioses but on older z590 bios is wasnt enabled by default.

Edit z590 Asrock OC let you set rtls manually and that is the only MB I know if that let you do that. On z690 you can adjust a little like 1 tick up or down but it is hit and miss and usually a sign of something else not right. For the most part they should train and work if everything else is set correctly like voltages and other tiimings and also depends on bios versions. Some bioses train rtls much better than others. Newer bioses not always better.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> You cant set RTLs like you use to on older gens on z590/z690 set Round Trip Latency to enabled under Memory Algorithms will tighten them. Asus might have this enabled by default now on newer bioses but on older z590 bios is wasnt enabled by default.
> 
> Edit z590 Asrock OC let you set rtls manually and that is the only MB I know if that let you do that. On z690 you can adjust a little like 1 tick up or down but it is hit and miss and usually a sign of something else not right. For the most part they should train and work if everything else is set correctly like voltages and other tiimings and also depends on bios versions. Some bioses train rtls much better than others. Newer bioses not always better.


So, are the RTL values I'm seeing in the BIOS and in ASRock timing configurator on 4266C16 legit or just a arbitrary readout that isn't realistic. I mean 45/46 RTL on 4266? On the MSI Z490 Ace I was happy to get it to 59/60 on 4200 and 4400 needed like 62/63 at the lowest to even POST. 

And what about the weirdness with code 55 at a reboot on Gear 1 3866? It's stable in TM5 and gamed on it all evening, was fine. But a simple reboot goes to code 55. Even when rebooting straight from the BIOS. It's fine on 4266 gear 2. I'm running the latest official BIOS btw.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> So, are the RTL values I'm seeing in the BIOS and in ASRock timing configurator on 4266C16 legit or just a arbitrary readout that isn't realistic. I mean 45/46 RTL on 4266? On the MSI Z490 Ace I was happy to get it to 59/60 on 4200 and 4400 needed like 62/63 at the lowest to even POST.
> 
> And what about the weirdness with code 55 at a reboot on Gear 1 3866? It's stable in TM5 and gamed on it all evening, was fine. But a simple reboot goes to code 55. Even when rebooting straight from the BIOS. It's fine on 4266 gear 2. I'm running the latest official BIOS btw.


To see all rtls use memtweakit, but they should match what is displayed in the bios. I havent updated to a newer bios so not sure how they behave on z590 I am still using 1202. 

I have never had any issues with rebooting and code 55 on Apex, Hero or Unify x on z590 that I have had so I cant help you there.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> To see all rtls use memtweakit, but they should match what is displayed in the bios. I havent updated to a newer bios so not sure how they behave on z590 I am still using 1202.
> 
> I have never had any issues with rebooting and code 55 on Apex, Hero or Unify x on z590 that I have had so I cant help you there.


Memtweakit also shows 45/46 on 4266C16 Gear 2. Well, seems like it's correct then.

I'm getting about 63GB/s R/W/C and 49ns latency on that setup. I can get it down to 41ns ish at 3866C15 Gear 1 but bandwidth does drop to 60GB/s. Would you recommend I keep tweaking for gear 1 or just stick to gear 2. 49ns isn't very high compared to a 5900X but it is compared to a 10900K.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Memtweakit also shows 45/46 on 4266C16 Gear 2. Well, seems like it's correct then.
> 
> I'm getting about 63GB/s R/W/C and 49ns latency on that setup. I can get it down to 41ns ish at 3866C15 Gear 1 but bandwidth does drop to 60GB/s. Would you recommend I keep tweaking for gear 1 or just stick to gear 2. 49ns isn't very high compared to a 5900X but it is compared to a 10900K.


I didnt notice a difference in actual use between gear 1 3866c14 or gear 2 4533c17 or even 5333c20 with Hynix.

Benchmarks is the only place I saw a difference. Most favor gear 1 for gaming but in actual use I cant tell a difference between them.

I also have z690 ddr4 (4133c15 to 4266c15) and ddr5 7000c32 and same thing outside of benchmarks I can tell no difference in actual use or playing games.

I like the benchmark # ADL gives vs RKL but again in actual use for what I do and games i play I dont see or "feel" a difference.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> I didnt notice a difference in actual use between gear 1 3866c14 or gear 2 4533c17 or even 5333c20 with Hynix.
> 
> Benchmarks is the only place I saw a difference. Most favor gear 1 for gaming but in actual use I cant tell a difference between them.
> 
> I also have z690 ddr4 (4133c15 to 4266c15) and ddr5 7000c32 and same thing outside of benchmarks I can tell no difference in actual use or playing games.
> 
> I like the benchmark # ADL gives vs RKL but again in actual use for what I do and games i play I dont see or "feel" a difference.


Meh, the only thing I notice is that my 5900X did perform better in games in raw FPS benchmarks but that had numerous other issues like the incessant fTPM stuttering which is why I sold it when I found this Maximus XIII Hero and 11900K for a good deal used. It's way smoother in general even if benchmarks raw average FPS numbers are slighly lower. Then again, 0.1% minimums are way better and we're talking a difference in for example Division 2 of 141 vs 138 FPS. 

If I get the deal for the 10900K I will also compare that to both the 11900K and 5900X. I won't sell the 11900K, I'll just keep both to play around with.

Edit: got the 10900k for a good deal as well. It's already been delidded so easy for me to slap on my rockitcool direct die frame and some Liquid Ultra or Conductonaut and push it to the limit hehe. It did 5.2 all core 5.0 cache on a mid-range Gigabyte Z490 at just 1.42v LLC6 so I should be able to push 5.3/5.0 quite easily direct die.


----------



## Placekicker19

Been running my memory overclock for a couple years without issue and decided to run testmem5 again and got 1 error half way through. Haven’t had any other issues but I’m sure they will eventually happen. Making it 2 years without issue is decent for the speed /timings I’m running. Hopefully some voltage tweaking can get rid on the error and keep things stable until I upgrade again.


----------



## Imprezzion

Placekicker19 said:


> Been running my memory overclock for a couple years without issue and decided to run testmem5 again and got 1 error half way through. Haven’t had any other issues but I’m sure they will eventually happen. Making it 2 years without issue is decent for the speed /timings I’m running. Hopefully some voltage tweaking can get rid on the error and keep things stable until I upgrade again.


_Looks at error_










EDIT: Stock Auto RTL's without Round Trip Latency enabled at 3866C15 Gear 1 with timings yoinked from @bscool except I run tighter tRFC, tRAS and tWR.
I do need quite a lot more VCCSA to run 3866 Gear 1. I can do 4266 gear 2 at 1.312v but need 1.376v for 3866G1. If I leave it too low it'll just POST loop to safe mode.

I am getting the 10900K in tomorrow and according to the previous owner it can do 52 core 50 cache 4400C17 RAM at decent voltages so we shall see.
I do have to order a new rockitcool direct die plate as I gave mine away when I went to AMD lol.










I got it to boot with Round Trip Latency enabled and did some more tests in AIDA64.
Getting very close to 40ns straight. Still above 60GB/s as well.


----------



## Martin v r

Kicsimba said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> i have an Asus b660i/12400f/ fury beast ddr5 5600mhz cl 40 tuned to 7072 cl32. I don’t understand why my read/write/copy speeds are low. Its should beover 100k ?I have a single module if that helps.


DUAL = high bandwidth, and if mem only sits on one side of the mem block it will be faster again


----------



## Koekieezz

It's been a while since not posting a thread, so here we go 

I've decided to replace my ram to a V-Color Prism Pro RGB 16GB (2X8) 3600 CL18, they're mostly use Hynix DJR for the kit's and it's priced really decent (for like $87 for a premium looking and really smooth RGB, with good ICs). So here's my OC results since i decided to OC the ram after plugging it in, Used the same method (TM5 Absolut + Furmark heaviest settings at 900p (native resolution) + Super Pie 32M 3 Cycles). Since i do not prefer 1.45v, i think it's pretty ok on 1.41v. Let me know what you think 

This was my previous post on my previous ram kit.

Specs:

*Intel i3 10105F*
*MSi B560M Pro*
*V-Color* Prism Pro RGB 16GB (2X8) 3600 CL18 (*Hynix DJR*)
Here are the results:


----------



## Imprezzion

Koekieezz said:


> It's been a while since not posting a thread, so here we go
> 
> I've decided to replace my ram to a V-Color Prism Pro RGB 16GB (2X8) 3600 CL18, they're mostly use Hynix DJR for the kit's and it's priced really decent (for like $87 for a premium looking and really smooth RGB, with good ICs). So here's my OC results since i decided to OC the ram after plugging it in, Used the same method (TM5 Absolut + Furmark heaviest settings at 900p (native resolution) + Super Pie 32M 3 Cycles). Since i do not prefer 1.45v, i think it's pretty ok on 1.41v. Let me know what you think
> 
> This was my previous post on my previous ram kit.
> 
> Specs:
> 
> *Intel i3 10105F*
> *MSi B560M Pro*
> *V-Color* Prism Pro RGB 16GB (2X8) 3600 CL18 (*Hynix DJR*)
> Here are the results:
> View attachment 2560016


It's awesome to see something else then B-Die and high-end CPU's and boards here. 

Seems like an amazing result honestly. Nice low voltage, good secondary and tertiary timings, nice benchmark results. If I would suggest anything it would be to try and get tWRRD down a bit to get tWTR to train a bit lower still but that's minor.


----------



## Koekieezz

Imprezzion said:


> It's awesome to see something else then B-Die and high-end CPU's and boards here.
> 
> Seems like an amazing result honestly. Nice low voltage, good secondary and tertiary timings, nice benchmark results. If I would suggest anything it would be to try and get tWRRD down a bit to get tWTR to train a bit lower still but that's minor.


Thank you :"

This is my first attempt on quick but predictable OC, so yeah i want to try to lower the tRDRDSG/TWRWRSD to 7, and maybe the tRTL? idk but i moved like 5 clocks from my previous 3600 C16 so yeah.

Also does DJR cant do 16-19-19-36 on 3600 at voltage below 1.4? idk but it always give me errors. My patriot kit seems to be best at 3600 tight timings but anything above it even with 1.45v, boom rain o' errors.

Actually this 4133 timings could do 1.4v but gave me 1 errors, go with 1.41v and its all good. also i used Dram Voltage Boost on msi bios at +50mv, will it affect on the overall voltage or its just memory training voltage?


----------



## imrevoau

Current stable settings. 1.35 SA and 1.25 VDDQ


----------



## Koekieezz

@Imprezzion Hello, i've done tightening a little bit and it seems my ram are not 100% stable i guess? its getting 49-50 that causes to go into 1 Errors, yes, any errors by any mean but just 1, usually on the 2nd cycle or 3rd cycle, only if i test them both using Furmark. Without furmark? stable af (temps below 47 without a/c, 44 with a/c) and i game only when i turned on the a/c (bcs mood XD). 

So i think my ram chips doesn't like anything above 47C. WDYT abt this results? i honestly dont know what causes the instability, prolly heat, but last time i did without messing the RTL cause im tired of retesting this, now its stable (maybe would try to re test to lower RTL Init but im tired fr now), i increased the Dram VTT to 0.710 (i think when i set it to 1.41v the VTT automatically adjusts to 0.7-5 as per info i know that VTT is half of VDIMM, i just like giving a little overhead). should i be worry when i game? My case fans are Zalman ZA1225ASL and they done pretty ok job for the airflow, but idk. Im getting anxious bcs of this XD

Should i let tRFC at 560 or 630? and tREFI at double of my original instead of 32k? im really want to get this real stable :")


----------



## Imprezzion

Koekieezz said:


> @Imprezzion Hello, i've done tightening a little bit and it seems my ram are not 100% stable i guess? its getting 49-50 that causes to go into 1 Errors, yes, any errors by any mean but just 1, usually on the 2nd cycle or 3rd cycle, only if i test them both using Furmark. Without furmark? stable af (temps below 47 without a/c, 44 with a/c) and i game only when i turned on the a/c (bcs mood XD).
> 
> So i think my ram chips doesn't like anything above 47C. WDYT abt this results? i honestly dont know what causes the instability, prolly heat, but last time i did without messing the RTL cause im tired of retesting this, now its stable (maybe would try to re test to lower RTL Init but im tired fr now), i increased the Dram VTT to 0.710 (i think when i set it to 1.41v the VTT automatically adjusts to 0.7-5 as per info i know that VTT is half of VDIMM, i just like giving a little overhead). should i be worry when i game? My case fans are Zalman ZA1225ASL and they done pretty ok job for the airflow, but idk. Im getting anxious bcs of this XD
> 
> Should i let tRFC at 560 or 630? and tREFI at double of my original instead of 32k? im really want to get this real stable :")
> View attachment 2560134


Temperature related instability is quite common on DDR4. 560 tRFC is obviously much faster latency wise so keep it there. This should be stable enough. Do another 1-2 hour run with 1usmus config on TM5 just to be safe. Edit the config file to let it do 25 runs or something, that should be over 1 hour.


----------



## Koekieezz

Imprezzion said:


> Temperature related instability is quite common on DDR4. 560 tRFC is obviously much faster latency wise so keep it there. This should be stable enough. Do another 1-2 hour run with 1usmus config on TM5 just to be safe. Edit the config file to let it do 25 runs or something, that should be over 1 hour.


Should i be testing altogether with furmark too?


----------



## robalm

Any one know if gskills 4000 cl 16-19-19 1.4v is b-die?
And if so, crap or good?


----------



## imrevoau

robalm said:


> Any one know if gskills 4000 cl 16-19-19 1.4v is b-die?
> And if so, crap or good?


I could be wrong but I think it can be B die, but it might not be either

EDIT: I worded that really poorly. I mean that I think it's up to chance whether or not you get b-die with that kit


----------



## Koekieezz

@Imprezzion damn lots of error at 50c, so as long as it does not touch 47c its safe i guess? do i need to add another 2 case fans above the tower cooler and ram for it? my front case fans is Zalman ZA1225ASL, it does give ok airflow as the wind goes till the end of casing (i could feel it flowing fast).


----------



## Imprezzion

Koekieezz said:


> @Imprezzion damn lots of error at 50c, so as long as it does not touch 47c its safe i guess? do i need to add another 2 case fans above the tower cooler and ram for it? my front case fans is Zalman ZA1225ASL, it does give ok airflow as the wind goes till the end of casing (i could feel it flowing fast).
> View attachment 2560245


I have a 120mm fan @ 1100RPM pointed directly at my RAM and an open air case and it still hits 43c so probably necessary if you wanna keep the current voltage and clocks / timings. I can get away with mine up to 48c, above it errors. 

I would make a fan point at them if at all possible. I run no side panel just for this reason and because it's super quiet anyway and I want a open air case build but there is no real open air case that isn't Thermaltake that supports 420 rads. Stuff like the Mastercase 700 only support 360 rads...


----------



## The Pook

robalm said:


> Any one know if gskills 4000 cl 16-19-19 1.4v is b-die?
> And if so, crap or good?


telling us the specific kit is more useful than the frequency/timings 

_if_ it's B-Die it's an awful bin.


----------



## robalm

The Pook said:


> telling us the specific kit is more useful than the frequency/timings
> 
> _if_ it's B-Die it's an awful bin.


The price is about the same as the 4000mhz cl 16-16-16 1.4v ~ 440 dollars.
I was thinking it was made for better compability for low-end cpu.









F4-4000C16D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL16-19-19-39 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




www.gskill.com













F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA. Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL16-16-16-36 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB).




www.gskill.com


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> The price is about the same as the 4000mhz cl 16-16-16 1.4v ~ 440 dollars.
> I was thinking it was made for better compability for low-end cpu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL16-19-19-39 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA. Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL16-16-16-36 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


They are B-Die at least.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> They are B-Die at least.
> 
> View attachment 2560263


yes but is not still with mem block on both sides?


----------



## robalm

Martin v r said:


> yes but is not still with mem block on both sides?





Martin v r said:


> yes but is not still with mem block on both sides?


Typhoon Burner shows dual rank.


----------



## Imprezzion

I got this screenshot from a review of this kit. They mentioned the 32GB kit also uses B-Die's.


----------



## Ichirou

Koekieezz said:


> @Imprezzion damn lots of error at 50c, so as long as it does not touch 47c its safe i guess? do i need to add another 2 case fans above the tower cooler and ram for it? my front case fans is Zalman ZA1225ASL, it does give ok airflow as the wind goes till the end of casing (i could feel it flowing fast).
> View attachment 2560245


Test without any GPU load first, so you aren't introducing additional variables to the test.
If it passes, you know it's clearly a temperature issue.


----------



## nexxusty

Best I can do so far with my 11900k.










tRDRD, tRDWR, tWRRD & tWRWR not fully tweaked yet. Close.

tWRDWR cannot go lower than 10 flat. However tWRRD can likely go a bit lower, 1 or 2 points max (Relation to tWTR L&S/tCWL will prevent any lower). I believe I can do tRFC @ 220 as well.

Not bad though so far. I think this is pretty damn good for a daisy chain board with 4 DIMMs.


----------



## Martin v r

nexxusty said:


> Best I can do so far with my 11900k.
> 
> View attachment 2560357
> 
> 
> tRDRD, tRDWR, tWRRD & tWRWR not fully tweaked yet. Close.
> 
> tWRDWR cannot go lower than 10 flat. However tWRRD can likely go a bit lower, 1 or 2 points max (Relation to tWTR L&S/tCWL will prevent any lower). I believe I can do tRFC @ 220 as well.
> 
> Not bad though so far. I think this is pretty damn good for a daisy chain board with 4 DIMMs.


tFAW 16? try 21 it is better


----------



## nexxusty

Martin v r said:


> tFAW 16? try 21 it is better


tFAW = tRRDx4. Period. Mine is 4, so 16 is correct.

Why would an arbitrary setting like 21 be better? I absolutely do not understand why you would suggest this. On my setup, a tRRD request should take 4 cycles to complete. Another cannot be issued until the one before it is complete. 21 would not improve anything, it would add a delay after the 4 cycle request, thus lowering my overall performance.

You are completely incorrect.

Not trying to be a dick here.... However you should probably refrain from giving advice that is not correct. I know what I am doing, others might not.


----------



## robalm

*Imprezzion *Found the test, and they look really good. 
4000mhz cl 15 at 1.45v & 3800mhz c14 at 1.45v









G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB DDR4 4000 Review - Overclockers


G.Skill's new dual-rank Samsung based Trident Z Royal DDR4 features incredible performance and exceptional overclocking headroom.




www.overclockers.com


----------



## Imprezzion

robalm said:


> *Imprezzion *Found the test, and they look really good.
> 4000mhz cl 15 at 1.45v & 3800mhz c14 at 1.45v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB DDR4 4000 Review - Overclockers
> 
> 
> G.Skill's new dual-rank Samsung based Trident Z Royal DDR4 features incredible performance and exceptional overclocking headroom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclockers.com


It is 14-16-16 tho which is considerably easier to run then straight 14's. My 3600C16 Neo's will do that at ~1.49v. I ran 14-16-16 3866 @ 1.53v daily when I had my 5900X that hates uneven timings due to Gear down mode. So it's just another B-Die mid range bin probably very comparable to 3600C16-16-16-36 kits or Patriot 4400C19's which are probably quite a lot cheaper.

EDIT: Absolutely yeeted the tRFC down and dropped tWR to 9 and tWRRD to 6. Needed a LOT of extra voltage to handle tRFC 240 but since i'm running an open air setup with a 1100RPM 120mm fan even at 23c ambient they don't really get hot at all. Still under 39c.


----------



## nexxusty

Imprezzion said:


> It is 14-16-16 tho which is considerably easier to run then straight 14's. My 3600C16 Neo's will do that at ~1.49v. I ran 14-16-16 3866 @ 1.53v daily when I had my 5900X that hates uneven timings due to Gear down mode. So it's just another B-Die mid range bin probably very comparable to 3600C16-16-16-36 kits or Patriot 4400C19's which are probably quite a lot cheaper.
> 
> EDIT: Absolutely yeeted the tRFC down and dropped tWR to 9 and tWRRD to 6. Needed a LOT of extra voltage to handle tRFC 240 but since i'm running an open air setup with a 1100RPM 120mm fan even at 23c ambient they don't really get hot at all. Still under 39c.
> 
> View attachment 2560409


I need 1.57v for tRFC 240. This is with 4x8GB B-Die however, so I consider that result pretty decent.

They're Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz sticks.

Definitely needed a massive bump from 1.52 though to obtain the lower tRFC, I second that, LOL.


----------



## bscool

nexxusty said:


> Best I can do so far with my 11900k.
> 
> View attachment 2560357
> 
> 
> tRDRD, tRDWR, tWRRD & tWRWR not fully tweaked yet. Close.
> 
> tWRDWR cannot go lower than 10 flat. However tWRRD can likely go a bit lower, 1 or 2 points max (Relation to tWTR L&S/tCWL will prevent any lower). I believe I can do tRFC @ 220 as well.
> 
> Not bad though so far. I think this is pretty damn good for a daisy chain board with 4 DIMMs.


Can you pass memtest, tm5 ore Karhu if so that is impressive for 4x8. Heck even 2x16 that is good.


----------



## Imprezzion

nexxusty said:


> I need 1.57v for tRFC 240. This is with 4x8GB B-Die however, so I consider that result pretty decent.
> 
> They're Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz sticks.
> 
> Definitely needed a massive bump from 1.52 though to obtain the lower tRFC, I second that, LOL.


I ran 280 tRFC with 10 tWR and 7's for tWRRD at 1.50v. It's a real shame I can't get the tRDWR's to do 10's. That would maybe get me below 38ns latency. This is sitting in the upper 38's.


----------



## Ichirou

nexxusty said:


> Best I can do so far with my 11900k.
> 
> View attachment 2560357
> 
> 
> tRDRD, tRDWR, tWRRD & tWRWR not fully tweaked yet. Close.
> 
> tWRDWR cannot go lower than 10 flat. However tWRRD can likely go a bit lower, 1 or 2 points max (Relation to tWTR L&S/tCWL will prevent any lower). I believe I can do tRFC @ 220 as well.
> 
> Not bad though so far. I think this is pretty damn good for a daisy chain board with 4 DIMMs.


Very nice. Quad DIMMs on modern boards is insanely hard.
I couldn't do any better than what I got at 4,000 MHz. I might be able to tighten the timings further if I pull down the frequency, but at 4,000 MHz, basically none of the timings will budge.
Flat-14 at 3,866 is going to be better than 16-18-18-XX at 4,000 MHz. But then again, Z590 and Z690 are different, so the performance gain from Alder Lake might make up for it.

I couldn't even push past 1.49V VDIMM, even though I have two dedicated fans blowing on it. The sticks are crammed together without any space for air to circulate.
But in a 2x8 GB configuration, the DIMMs will take up to 1.68V just fine.


----------



## Martin v r

nexxusty said:


> tFAW = tRRDx4. Period. Mine is 4, so 16 is correct.
> 
> Why would an arbitrary setting like 21 be better? I absolutely do not understand why you would suggest this. On my setup, a tRRD request should take 4 cycles to complete. Another cannot be issued until the one before it is complete. 21 would not improve anything, it would add a delay after the 4 cycle request, thus lowering my overall performance.
> 
> You are completely incorrect.
> 
> Not trying to be a dick here.... However you should probably refrain from giving advice that is not correct. I know what I am doing, others might not.


it has been up and down several times in the thread, but speak nicely, should think it was a child writing,but do as you please


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I tried OCing my cheap TeamGroup 2x8GB 3000 CL16 Ram to 3200 again, I had the voltage at 1.38V and it no go, win10 crashes if I start a program. IDK what's a safe limit there

I've tried 3000 and CL15 settings before, with no luck. There is a ton of ram settings, I've never tried most of them, and I'm not going to, best leave that alone.

I did set it to 3066MHz and ran 2hr of ram testing in P95 and called it good enough. I should try a few games too.


----------



## Taraquin

My i5 12400F on Adus B660m K and 1402 bios has been running 3600cl15 1t rev E tuned for over a month now stable at gear 1 so it seems the last bios finally stabiluzed it even at the low 0.95v SA voltage. I get rare repairing disk when rebooting so there may be slight corruption ongoing, but no instability, no reboots etc. Still wish we could adjust SA volt though...


----------



## GeneO

So I have been running 2 sets of 2x16GB g.skill 3200C14 bdie. The two sets were purchased about two years apart, but all the same components. I could never get them past 3600 MHz Cl14 on my daisy-chain topology Maximus Hero XII, which is expected, and I was banging my head against the wall tightening timings - would test out fine then a few boots later... no. So I gave up and removed the oldest set to try and get at least 4000 MHz. I have had good luck with the 4000MHz with tight timings. Have tried 4266 but need more work to get tighter timings.

So here is what I have:
VRAM 1.46v
VCCIO 1.17v
VCCSA 1.18v
PPD 0
4000 MHz 16-16-36 CR2

I have tested with: 
6+ cycles of TM5 Absolut profile
10,000% Karhu
GSAT 3 hours

With no errors. 
EDIT: I ran the tests with weak cooling so with TM5 the RAM was at 55c and KarHu at 53c.

I have two questions:


Any suggestions to improve the transfer rates, especially the copy?
Do you think the TREFI and TRFC are safe to run 24x7 with these testing results?

The timings I have adjusted are about as low as they will go

TIAA


----------



## Taraquin

GeneO said:


> So I have been running 2 sets of 2x16GB g.skill 3200C14 bdie. The two sets were purchased about two years apart, but all the same components. I could never get them past 3600 MHz Cl14 on my daisy-chain topology Maximus Hero XII, which is expected, and I was banging my head against the wall tightening timings - would test out fine then a few boots later... no. So I gave up and removed the oldest set to try and get at least 4000 MHz. I have had good luck with the 4000MHz with tight timings. Have tried 4266 but need more work to get tighter timings.
> 
> So here is what I have:
> VRAM 1.46v
> VCCIO 1.17v
> VCCSA 1.18v
> PPD 0
> 4000 MHz 16-16-36 CR2
> 
> I have tested with:
> 6+ cycles of TM5 Absolut profile
> 10,000% Karhu
> GSAT 3 hours
> 
> With no errors.
> 
> I have two questions:
> 
> 
> Any suggestions to improve the transfer rates, especially the copy?
> Do you think the TREFI and TRFC are safe to run 24x7 with these testing results?
> 
> The timings I have adjusted are about as low as they will go
> 
> TIAA
> 
> View attachment 2561110


Set your WR to 14 (2xRTP), set RAS to 32, try RFC 320, 304 or 288. Looks mostly good except for that.


----------



## tommyd2k

wrong thread sry


----------



## GeneO

Taraquin said:


> Set your WR to 14 (2xRTP), set RAS to 32, try RFC 320, 304 or 288. Looks mostly good except for that.


Thanks

Can't go too much lower on the tRFC, 300 gives me issues so want a little guard band.
If I set twr to 14 (it actually is), it ends up set to15. The BIOS must be applying some rule between twr and rtp.
Will try the ras at 32.

btw this is stable on the tests I ran at 55c.


----------



## Taraquin

GeneO said:


> Thanks
> 
> Can't go too much lower on the tRFC, 300 gives me issues so want a little guard band.
> If I set twr to 14 (it actually is), it ends up set to15. The BIOS must be applying some rule between twr and rtp.
> Will try the ras at 32.
> 
> btw this is stable on the tests I ran at 55c.


Try RFC 320, on 16 gb dimms it apparently runs on ticks of 16 so lowest number divideable by 16 may work best.


----------



## GeneO

Taraquin said:


> Try RFC 320, on 16 gb dimms it apparently runs on ticks of 16 so lowest number divideable by 16 may work best.


Will try it. If it doesn't wok then II will set try and to 336. Do the settings get rounded up or down by 16?


----------



## Taraquin

GeneO said:


> Will try it. If it doesn't wok then II will set try and to 336. Do the settings get rounded up or down by 16?


If I understand correctly 321 and 336 will perform equal since they are on the same cycle. 336 requires less voltage though.


----------



## GeneO

Taraquin said:


> If I understand correctly 321 and 336 will perform equal since they are on the same cycle. 336 requires less voltage though.


Well I lowered RAS to 32 and tRFC to 320.
No change in the AIDA64 memory bench results though. 
I am running KarHu on those settings now.


----------



## fray_bentos

Taraquin said:


> My i5 12400F on Adus B660m K and 1402 bios has been running 3600cl15 1t rev E tuned for over a month now stable at gear 1 so it seems the last bios finally stabiluzed it even at the low 0.95v SA voltage. I get rare repairing disk when rebooting so there may be slight corruption ongoing, but no instability, no reboots etc. Still wish we could adjust SA volt though...


"been running 3600cl15 1t rev E tuned for over a month now stable at gear 1".... "I get rare repairing disk when rebooting so there may be slight corruption ongoing, but no instability".

Ummm.


----------



## Taraquin

fray_bentos said:


> "been running 3600cl15 1t rev E tuned for over a month now stable at gear 1".... "I get rare repairing disk when rebooting so there may be slight corruption ongoing, but no instability".
> 
> Ummm.


Could be due to too low RFC or too high tREFI. I have gotten repairing disk once in 2 months so not sure what the cause is.


----------



## Reznap

I just decided to overclock my ram for the first time past the XMP profile I've been using on my gaming PC for several years.

CPU: 9700k @ 5.1
Ram: G.skill F4-3200C14-8GFX (Purchased this set when the ryzen 1700x came out as it was known as b-die to work with AMD better)

After a couple of days of tinkering and reading about overclocking memory... the below pic is where I've landed. I'm shocked how much snappier my PC is vs the XMP profile.

Now that I'm here, I'd like to see if I can get below 40ns but I've hit a wall where I start getting errors. I've tried lowering tRCD and rRP but I can't get through a full TM5 absolut test.

Anyone have a suggestions of what I can try next?


----------



## fray_bentos

Taraquin said:


> Could be due to too low RFC or too high tREFI. I have gotten repairing disk once in 2 months so not sure what the cause is.


Let's just say you are not "stable at gear 1".


----------



## Raphie

10K% coverage in Karhu and 5 out of 5 Y-Cruncher /pi2.5 or it’s not considered stable.


----------



## Taraquin

fray_bentos said:


> Let's just say you are not "stable at gear 1".


As said, could be RFC or REFI. Too low RFC got me same issue on Ryzen. The first 2 bioses gave me random BSODs on load, that was gear 1 related. The last 2 has been stable, only got repairing disk on one reboot, but I also used CCleaner to clean registry a few days earlier so that may contribute.


----------



## Ichirou

*4,133 MHz CL14 1T Gear 1 Z690 with 4x16 GB (64 GB) Micron B-die
~1.66V VDIMM, 1.34V VCCSA*


----------



## GeneO

Taraquin said:


> If I understand correctly 321 and 336 will perform equal since they are on the same cycle. 336 requires less voltage though.


I got an error in Absolut lowing RAS from 36 to 32 and RFI from 330 to 320 (probably the latter). 

So I set RAS to 34 and RFI to 336 since it didn't make a difference anyway, and concentrated on tightening the secondary and tertiary timings with success (3-5% and now all over 60 GB/s). Have tested these with 4 cycles of Absolut and 4000% Karhu with no errors. Will run longer tests tomorrow. 

Then take a break and on to trying 4266 CL17 sometime in the future.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Hello guys

Wanted to ask you professionals about my DRAM and everything about overclocking it pretty much.... what would be my first steps in doing something to improve my latency, only got 62ns in AIDA64 on a B-Die 3200MHz 2x16GB kit

I was thinking about raising my VCCSA to 1.30 and DRAM Voltage to 1.45 or 1.50 and raise my frequency until it will not post, also heard that on 12th gen intel there is no VCCIO so I should just raise VCCSA and VDIMM for overclock, is that right? ... Will post screenshots of AIDA Bench and Timings below

*CPU:* Intel i7 12700K (Overclocked to 5GHz All Core, 4GHz E Core and 4.1GHz Ring/Cache Ratio @ 1.310 Voltage (LLC2)
*DRAM:* G.Skill 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z 3200MHz DDR4 ( F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK ) -- XMP Rated timings are 14-14-14-34 @ 1.350V
*Motherboard: *ASRock Z690 Extreme

AIDA64 Bench (Sorry about TRIAL VERSION) =


http://imgur.com/rmVS6yQ

ASRock Timing Configurator =


http://imgur.com/LoSJjzy

Voltage in HWiNFO =


http://imgur.com/moEgBf9


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Hello guys
> 
> Wanted to ask you professionals about my DRAM and everything about overclocking it pretty much.... what would be my first steps in doing something to improve my latency, only got 62ns in AIDA64 on a B-Die 3200MHz 2x16GB kit
> 
> I was thinking about raising my VCCSA to 1.30 and DRAM Voltage to 1.45 or 1.50 and raise my frequency until it will not post, also heard that on 12th gen intel there is no VCCIO so I should just raise VCCSA and VDIMM for overclock, is that right? ... Will post screenshots of AIDA Bench and Timings below
> 
> *CPU:* Intel i7 12700K (Overclocked to 5GHz All Core, 4GHz E Core and 4.1GHz Ring/Cache Ratio @ 1.310 Voltage (LLC2)
> *DRAM:* G.Skill 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z 3200MHz DDR4 ( F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK ) -- XMP Rated timings are 14-14-14-34 @ 1.350V
> *Motherboard: *ASRock Z690 Extreme
> 
> AIDA64 Bench (Sorry about TRIAL VERSION) =
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/rmVS6yQ
> 
> ASRock Timing Configurator =
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/LoSJjzy
> 
> Voltage in HWiNFO =
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/moEgBf9


Slap on 1.58V VDIMM and try for 4,000 MHz @ 14-15-15-30-1T.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> Slap on 1.58V VDIMM and try for 4,000 MHz @ 14-15-15-30-1T.


Would like to add that my DIMMs reach 35-37c idle or on desktop and up to 48c while gaming now with VDIMM 1.36V ... would 1.58 VDIMM not overheat? and would you not suggested any VCCSA raise like 1.25-1.35V?


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Would like to add that my DIMMs reach 35-37c idle or on desktop and up to 48c while gaming now with VDIMM 1.36V ... would 1.58 VDIMM not overheat? and would you not suggested any VCCSA raise like 1.25-1.35V?


VCCSA is irrelevant right now. Leaving it at 1.30V max should be enough.

You need to add cooling for your RAM. Or settle for looser primaries. Maybe 16-16-16-XX or 17-17-17-XX, below 1.50-1.55V.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> VCCSA is irrelevant right now. Leaving it at 1.30V max should be enough.
> 
> You need to add cooling for your RAM. Or settle for looser primaries. Maybe 16-16-16-XX or 17-17-17-XX, below 1.50-1.55V.


Thanks mate, I was thinking maybe VCCSA 1.30V, VDIMM 1.50V and just testing 3600-3800MHz without tightening any timings... just leave it at 14-14-14-34, you think that could work?

Also maybe tRFC from 560 to 280-300 and tREFI from 12480 to 32000 ?


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Thanks mate, I was thinking maybe VCCSA 1.30V, VDIMM 1.50V and just testing 3600-3800MHz without tightening any timings... just leave it at 14-14-14-34, you think that could work?
> 
> Also maybe tRFC from 560 to 280-300 and tREFI from 12480 to 32000 ?


Sure, that sounds like a solid plan.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> Sure, that sounds like a solid plan.


Awesome, thanks for a quick response


----------



## TheHunter

HI, so msi finally released new microcode security fix for my z490.. But a friend with a 10700K and z490 tomahawk said, he somehow lost 7ns latency, from 40ns to 47ns..

I told him, you probably forgot to disable powerdown mode for ram again, and he no I copied all settings and entered back when I flashed new bios.. idk seems strange it would have such a big negative impact. 

Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> HI, so msi finally released new microcode security fix for my z490.. But a friend with a 10700K and z490 tomahawk said, he somehow lost 7ns latency, from 40ns to 47ns..
> 
> I told him, you probably forgot to disable powerdown mode for ram again, and he no I copied all settings and entered back when I flashed new bios.. idk seems strange it would have such a big negative impact.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?


flash mine tomorrow, then we'll see


----------



## GeneO

TheHunter said:


> HI, so msi finally released new microcode security fix for my z490.. But a friend with a 10700K and z490 tomahawk said, he somehow lost 7ns latency, from 40ns to 47ns..
> 
> I told him, you probably forgot to disable powerdown mode for ram again, and he no I copied all settings and entered back when I flashed new bios.. idk seems strange it would have such a big negative impact.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?


Hi,

What is the microcode revision? I am running 0xEE (latest from Intel) on my 10900KF. I got the same latency with this compared to EC. Slightly better benchmarks as well.


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> HI, so msi finally released new microcode security fix for my z490.. But a friend with a 10700K and z490 tomahawk said, he somehow lost 7ns latency, from 40ns to 47ns..
> 
> I told him, you probably forgot to disable powerdown mode for ram again, and he no I copied all settings and entered back when I flashed new bios.. idk seems strange it would have such a big negative impact.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?


after updat ,read and write has become fast and ns fits very well, could not be allowed to use my oc profile from my usb on the new bios, so I should have just set it up again, but the new bios seems to be better, so they must also have corrected something else in it but but win 10 got at opdat which cost 150/200 points in CB 20 3 weeks ago


----------



## ViTosS

Damn... Was able to pass 4400 flat CL16 but the problem is when I tight tFAW (tried 32, 24, 20, 16) I have errors, the problem is ONLY tFAW, tried with all the other subtimings on AUTO and still have error, tried increase VCCIO, VCCSA and VDIMM without success... Another curious thing, tFAW AUTO my RAM stays 41-42c, tFAW 16 it goes to 48c


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> Damn... Was able to pass 4400 flat CL16 but the problem is when I tight tFAW (tried 32, 24, 20, 16) I have errors, the problem is ONLY tFAW, tried with all the other subtimings on AUTO and still have error, tried increase VCCIO, VCCSA and VDIMM without success...
> 
> View attachment 2562336


Try loosening the other subtimings and tightening tFAW first


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> Try loosening the other subtimings and tightening tFAW first


I did, all the rest on AUTO (except primary timings) and when I put tFAW to 16 I get errors... I don't want to use tFAW on AUTO because I know tFAW 16 makes a huge difference, I can use tFAW at 16 with primaries at 16-17-17-37 but not 16-16-16-36


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> I did, all the rest on AUTO (except primary timings) and when I put tFAW to 16 I get errors... I don't want to use tFAW on AUTO because I know tFAW 16 makes a huge difference, I can use tFAW at 16 with primaries at 16-17-17-37 but not 16-16-16-36


So as long as tRCD is 17, you can do tFAW at 16?
It's just your RAM not being able to do tRCD 16 at 4,400 MHz then. Not really a tFAW issue. tRCD is hard to bin and very easy to overheat.
Most people who have tight tRCD at high frequencies usually have the DIMMs under water.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> So as long as tRCD is 17, you can do tFAW at 16?
> It's just your RAM not being able to do tRCD 16 at 4,400 MHz then. Not really a tFAW issue. tRCD is hard to bin and very easy to overheat.


Yes I can, but the responsible for +6c more in heat is tFAW tightened, makes the RAM heat like 6c more compared to tFAW AUTO.

Will try 4533 CL16-17-17-37 with tFAW 16 now...


----------



## Raphie

Try tfaw 18, with tRefi of 32768 and work trefi up from there 48000 > 64000…


----------



## ViTosS

Raphie said:


> Try tfaw 18, with tRefi of 32768 and work trefi up from there 48000 > 64000…


Hmm do you think tFAW 18 and tREFI 32768 will make a difference? Because like I said I tried tFAW 32 and all on AUTO, inlcuding tREFI AUTO at 17000


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> Hmm do you think tFAW 18 and tREFI 32768 will make a difference? Because like I said I tried tFAW 32 and all on AUTO, inlcuding tREFI AUTO at 17000


Run TM5 with 1usmus config instead of anta777. Check error codes here:


https://i.gyazo.com/e305a5dbba3b62a05606658e9ef55677.png



Chances are extremely high that your RAM is overheating and needs additional cooling.
Also, tFAW should be a multiple of 4, since it is tRRD_S x 4.


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> Run TM5 with 1usmus config instead of anta777. Check error codes here:
> 
> 
> https://i.gyazo.com/e305a5dbba3b62a05606658e9ef55677.png
> 
> 
> 
> Chances are extremely high that your RAM is overheating and needs additional cooling.
> Also, tFAW should be a multiple of 4, since it is tRRD_S x 4.


Alright so the possibilities for tFAW would be 16, 20, 24, etc? Because I'm using tRRD_S at 4. One question, what should I set in Memory Fast Boot? Enable, Slow Training, AUTO? I'm asking that because I noticed if I change from AUTO to DISABLED I can boot and pass stress tests sometimes with waaaay lower VCCIO, but boot and rebooting during the week I always get a ''wrong boot'' and then I will fail TM5, I fixed that by lefting on AUTO, but what are the differences from AUTO, ENABLED and SLOW TRAINING?

Thanks.


----------



## Raphie

18 is the golden number, but trefi needs to be small enough.
you want to esthablish a baseline other than auto no?


----------



## bscool

ViTosS said:


> Alright so the possibilities for tFAW would be 16, 20, 24, etc? Because I'm using tRRD_S at 4. One question, what should I set in Memory Fast Boot? Enable, Slow Training, AUTO? I'm asking that because I noticed if I change from AUTO to DISABLED I can boot and pass stress tests sometimes with waaaay lower VCCIO, but boot and rebooting during the week I always get a ''wrong boot'' and then I will fail TM5, I fixed that by lefting on AUTO, but what are the differences from AUTO, ENABLED and SLOW TRAINING?
> 
> Thanks.


Once you have rtls locked in on z490 MSI you need to disable training or rtls will drift. It doesnt make sense that it wont boot for you sometime with it disabled as they shouldnt change as memory is no longer training.

So something must be off if it doesnt boot for you sometimes with training disabled and you previously tested and had it stable. It sounds like a voltage as timings shouldnt be changing. I would try increasing sa or io or maybe d ram if you have boot issues with it disabled and dialed in timings that test stable.









Z490 Tomahawk "Manually" setting RTL/IO-L help...


ok, going to do my best to describe this issue im having, and took BIOS pic to show EXACTLY what i have to set to make this easier for you smart people. So my goal tonight is to manually set my RTL's and IO-L's to the following 71 (empty) 59 (Actual Dimm in this slot 71 (empty) 61 (Actual...




www.overclock.net


----------



## ViTosS

bscool said:


> Once you have rtls locked in on z490 MSI you need to disable training or rtls will drift. It doesnt make sense that it wont boot for you sometime with it disabled as they shouldnt change as memory is no longer training.
> 
> So something must be off if it doesnt boot for you sometimes with training disabled and you previously tested and had it stable. It sounds like a voltage as timings shouldnt be changing. I would try increasing sa or io or maybe d ram if you have boot issues with it disabled and dialed in timings that test stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z490 Tomahawk "Manually" setting RTL/IO-L help...
> 
> 
> ok, going to do my best to describe this issue im having, and took BIOS pic to show EXACTLY what i have to set to make this easier for you smart people. So my goal tonight is to manually set my RTL's and IO-L's to the following 71 (empty) 59 (Actual Dimm in this slot 71 (empty) 61 (Actual...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


The problem is the following:

I can ONLY BOOT with 4400 CL16-17-17-37 at 1.31v VCCIO (nothing higher, nothing less) (with Memory Fast Boot AUTO), after I boot with 1.31v VCCIO I went and DISABLED Memory Fast Boot and then I changed VCCIO to 1.20v, I can boot infinitely no matter the tries, I can pass TM5 too, but sometimes if I left like that I will end up getting a ''fault boot'' and when I run TM5 I get errors, it doesn't make sense to me because I needed 1.31v to boot and as soon as I disabled Memory Fast Boot I can boot no matter what with just 1.20v IO and pass stress test, so to fix that I had to always left VCCIO at 1.31v and Memory Fast Boot on default, which is AUTO, but I would like to know the differences between AUTO, ENABLED and SLOW TRAINING.


----------



## ViTosS

Raphie said:


> 18 is the golden number, but trefi needs to be small enough.
> you want to esthablish a baseline other than auto no?


I don't see why AUTO (tFAW 53) (tREFI 17000) would have errors and tFAW 18 and tREFI 32768 would not, since the first is looser and the second is tighter


----------



## bscool

When I had MSI z490 if I didnt disable training once everything was dialed in or rtls would drift but I ran DR and training and boot is more difficult over SR. I also ran 4400c16-17-17 old screenshot for reference of timings and voltages used. Setting odts/skews was key with DR on z490, helps with training/booting.

Also just because it passes tm5 it might not be stable. I have had setting pass tm5 that error on Karhu within minutes. I also had setting pass Karhu error on tm5 1usmus. But over all for me Karhu is harder to pass.


----------



## nikolaus85

bscool said:


> When I had MSI z490 if I didnt disable training once everything was dialed in or rtls would drift but I ran DR and training and boot is more difficult over SR. I also ran 4400c16-17-17 old screenshot for reference of timings and voltages used. Setting odts/skews was key with DR on z490, helps with training/booting.
> 
> Also just because it passes tm5 it might not be stable. I have had setting pass tm5 that error on Karhu within minutes. I also had setting pass Karhu error on tm5 1usmus. But over all for me Karhu is harder to pass.


i have z490 unify and i never disabled memory fast boot, always leave it on auto since it can cause some problems when i boot the system in some cases. There is away to lock rtls with memory fast boot on auto: once they trained properly, put manually the values, in my case 64-66 7-7. They will never drift.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

Maybe on SR you can do that but I couldnt get 4400c16 DR stable on z490 Unify without disabling training or rtls would not stay or I would have boot issues..


----------



## nikolaus85

bscool said:


> Maybe on SR you can do that but I couldnt get 4400c16 DR stable on z490 Unify without disabling training or rtls would not stay or I would have boot issues..


did you try putting them manually when they trained properly? Did you leave round trip latency enabled? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

nikolaus85 said:


> did you try putting them manually when they trained properly? Did you leave round trip latency enabled?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Putting them in manually it would not boot with DR. This was when z490 first came out back in 2020.

Been so long I dont remember everything I tried. But 4400c16-17-17 is a good memory OC on z490 Unify. Still stable to this day as it my niece has it and uses it for gaming so if it wasnt stable she would be calling me to fix it


----------



## ViTosS

That's what I do, I set RTL to dynamic and then manually set the RTL, they stay fixed always, no matter if Memory Fast Boot is AUTO or DISABLED. I just wanted to know the difference between AUTO to ENABLED and to SLOW TRAINING.


----------



## Netarangi

Seems my L2 and L3 speeds are subpar compared to other AIDA64 benches I've seen.. What settings help with this?


----------



## Netarangi

@bscool Forgot to say thanks for providing those timings <3


----------



## bscool

.


Netarangi said:


> @bscool Forgot to say thanks for providing those timings <3


Not sure if it matter on your MB but for me on z690 Strix d4 having tCWL the same or lower than tCL works better(can use a little less voltage) and easier to get stable.

But then you might need to raise tRDWRs from 11 to 12 and tWRRD sg and dg to 26 and 21. That is if you drop tCWL to 14 from 16.

It wont effect performance just something I noticed when tuning. Might not matter or work for you though.

Actually tRDWRs might be able to stay at 11 or even go 10 if tCL and TCWL are equal, you would have to test it.


----------



## ViTosS

I had no success trying to stabilize 4400 flat 16 with tFAW 16 or 4533 CL16-17-17-37 with tFAW 16 too, for some reason that's the only subtiming I can't put either 16, 18 or 20, even if all the rest is on AUTO, no matter the voltages...


----------



## nikolaus85

bscool said:


> Putting them in manually it would not boot with DR. This was when z490 first came out back in 2020.
> 
> Been so long I dont remember everything I tried. But 4400c16-17-17 is a good memory OC on z490 Unify. Still stable to this day as it my niece has it and uses it for gaming so if it wasnt stable she would be calling me to fix it


i see. Did you have 2x16 or 4x8 on the unify? I have 2x8 4400 c19, i thinking if worth adding another kit for 4x8 or switch to 2x16 (the one i like it the 4400 c17 18 18 really expensive).


----------



## bscool

nikolaus85 said:


> i see. Did you have 2x16 or 4x8 on the unify? I have 2x8 4400 c19, i thinking if worth adding another kit for 4x8 or switch to 2x16 (the one i like it the 4400 c17 18 18 really expensive).


I used both 4x8 and 2x16 on z490 Unify. With 4x8 I was limited to around 4133 to 4266? Been a while so I dont remember the exact clocks but 2x16 could do 4400c16-17-17.

But z490 is daisy chain so 2x16 will be easier than 4x8.


----------



## Netarangi

bscool said:


> .
> 
> Not sure if it matter on your MB but for me on z690 Strix d4 having tCWL the same or lower than tCL works better(can use a little less voltage) and easier to get stable.
> 
> But then you might need to raise tRDWRs from 11 to 12 and tWRRD sg and dg to 26 and 21. That is if you drop tCWL to 14 from 16.
> 
> It wont effect performance just something I noticed when tuning. Might not matter or work for you though.
> 
> Actually tRDWRs might be able to stay at 11 or even go 10 if tCL and TCWL are equal, you would have to test it.


Turns out that wasn't stable. Getting error 2 and 11 on usmus. I've tried putting my ram fan on it and doesn't work.

I've been using assassins creed valhalla for benchmarking. I can use these timings on 3600 cl14 and I get 200fps max with less drops and higher 0.1%. But with 3800mhz I get 220 max.

I would like to tweak the 3800 as it's 10% higher frames.


----------



## Imprezzion

Is there any way to manually tweak RTL/IO on a Maximus XIII Hero with a 10900K? It will not boot maximus Tweak mode 2 on any frequency so far and it also won't boot any of the presets which usually have tight RTL/IO set so I manually slapped a quick 4400 straight 17 OC on it which runs fine but RTL/IO is very loosely trained at 71/73/12/13 which back on my MSI Z490 Ace would manually adjust all the way to 62/63/6/6 but yeah I don't have that board nor that CPU anymore and so far I really prefer MSI's RAM OC settings in the BIOS over ASUS's settings....

Just to brag a little: I took a gamble on a used pre binned 10900K Avengers Edition with lofty claims of it's OC ability (it was very cheap tho) and it finally paid off. This chip is SP86 but it's an absolute monster. It's easily capable of 5.4 all core 5.0 cache 4400C17 RAM @ 1.412v vCore, 1.300 IO 1.360 SA and it's rock solid. It will do 5.4 all core with lower cache like 4.7 all the way down to 1.368v vCore and remains stable, cache at 5 gives L0 errors but vCore at 1.412 fixes that.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Is there any way to manually tweak RTL/IO on a Maximus XIII Hero with a 10900K? It will not boot maximus Tweak mode 2 on any frequency so far and it also won't boot any of the presets which usually have tight RTL/IO set so I manually slapped a quick 4400 straight 17 OC on it which runs fine but RTL/IO is very loosely trained at 71/73/12/13 which back on my MSI Z490 Ace would manually adjust all the way to 62/63/6/6 but yeah I don't have that board nor that CPU anymore and so far I really prefer MSI's RAM OC settings in the BIOS over ASUS's settings....
> 
> Just to brag a little: I took a gamble on a used pre binned 10900K Avengers Edition with lofty claims of it's OC ability (it was very cheap tho) and it finally paid off. This chip is SP86 but it's an absolute monster. It's easily capable of 5.4 all core 5.0 cache 4400C17 RAM @ 1.412v vCore, 1.300 IO 1.360 SA and it's rock solid. It will do 5.4 all core with lower cache like 4.7 all the way down to 1.368v vCore and remains stable, cache at 5 gives L0 errors but vCore at 1.412 fixes that.


With 10th gen on Asus you can manually enter rtl/iols. for your 71/73 12/13 as example -5 from each to get 66/68 7/8. you might have to experiment a little bit as that might not work but you get the idea. Maybe you need 66/67 7/7 or something like that.

You can also enable round trip latency under Memory Algorithms and it will tighten then automatically but doesnt always get them even if you are at the limit of the memory oc but it can help to give you an idea of what to aim for manually.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> With 10th gen on Asus you can manually enter rtl/iols. for your 71/73 12/13 as example -5 from each to get 66/68 7/8. you might have to experiment a little bit as that might not work but you get the idea. Maybe you need 66/67 7/7 or something like that.
> 
> You can also enable round trip latency under Memory Algorithms and it will tighten then automatically but doesnt always get them even if you are at the limit of the memory oc but it can help to give you an idea of what to aim for manually.


Oh so you can manually enter them on 10th gen? On my 11900K I couldn't so I assumed is was board / BIOS related but it's CPU related? Ok lol. I have round trip enabled and it did some small adjustments but not much. It's also struggling quite a lot to get tRDWR's to behave. I seem to have to run 15's to make 4400C17 be somewhat stable in TM5 1usmus. On gear 2 on the 11900K they were fine at 11's on 4266C16.

I did also have to move my m.2's to slot 3 and 4 as 1 is disabled with 10th gen and slot 2 makes PCI-E 1 run at x8 but that kinda makes sense as 10th gen only has 16 lanes. Was annoying to do tho with the GPU waterblock in the way and all.. 

So far 4400 seems to run fine IMC wise, it's just my shoddy timings being off and I'm only at 1.50v DRAM so tomorrow after work I'll see how high it'll actually boot to Windows. I'm hoping 4600-4700 18-19-19-39-370-2N is attainable but that'll require a lot of VCCSA and ODT / skew tweaks I'm guessing.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Oh so you can manually enter them on 10th gen? On my 11900K I couldn't so I assumed is was board / BIOS related but it's CPU related? Ok lol. I have round trip enabled and it did some small adjustments but not much. It's also struggling quite a lot to get tRDWR's to behave. I seem to have to run 15's to make 4400C17 be somewhat stable in TM5 1usmus. On gear 2 on the 11900K they were fine at 11's on 4266C16.
> 
> I did also have to move my m.2's to slot 3 and 4 as 1 is disabled with 10th gen and slot 2 makes PCI-E 1 run at x8 but that kinda makes sense as 10th gen only has 16 lanes. Was annoying to do tho with the GPU waterblock in the way and all..
> 
> So far 4400 seems to run fine IMC wise, it's just my shoddy timings being off and I'm only at 1.50v DRAM so tomorrow after work I'll see how high it'll actually boot to Windows. I'm hoping 4600-4700 18-19-19-39-370-2N is attainable but that'll require a lot of VCCSA and ODT / skew tweaks I'm guessing.


Yeah if you use 11th gen in z490/z590 you cannot set rtls but using 10th gen cpu in z490/z590 Mb you can set them.

4400 is pretty typical where z590 Hero will run with DR and 10th gen. z590 Apex/Unify X might do 4600 with top IMC and memory Karuh/memtest stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> Yeah if you use 11th gen in z490/z590 you cannot set rtls but using 10th gen cpu in z490/z590 Mb you can set them.
> 
> 4400 is pretty typical where z590 Hero will run with DR and 10th gen. z590 Apex/Unify X might do 4600 with top IMC and memory Karuh/memtest stable.


4400 didn't wanna stabilize as of yet. Random errors every time after 20-30 minutes in TM5.

I did however get 4266 to stabilize. It took 1.61v to run CL15 but it's fine and since I run open air DIMM temps are like, 37c max even at 1.61v. And, good thing about 4266 is I can run VCCIO / SA much lower so save a few degrees on the CPU. 

I did manually do the RTL/IO but it can be improved slightly more. I cannot run tRCD/tRP at 16, it has to be either 16-16-16 or 15-17-17 and this is faster overall in benches.
I might be able to lower tRFC and tRDWR a bit more but this is a nice baseline especially with the full 5.4 all core and 5.0 cache I ran in this test.


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> 4400 didn't wanna stabilize as of yet. Random errors every time after 20-30 minutes in TM5.
> 
> I did however get 4266 to stabilize. It took 1.61v to run CL15 but it's fine and since I run open air DIMM temps are like, 37c max even at 1.61v. And, good thing about 4266 is I can run VCCIO / SA much lower so save a few degrees on the CPU.
> 
> I did manually do the RTL/IO but it can be improved slightly more. I cannot run tRCD/tRP at 16, it has to be either 16-16-16 or 15-17-17 and this is faster overall in benches.
> I might be able to lower tRFC and tRDWR a bit more but this is a nice baseline especially with the full 5.4 all core and 5.0 cache I ran in this test.
> View attachment 2562659


set tRDRD_dd, tRDWR_dd, tWRRD_dd, and tWRWR_dd to 0, and if you loosen tWR you might be able to run a higher frequency. I was running tWR @ 12 and ran into a wall at 4133/4200 on my kit.


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> set tRDRD_dd, tRDWR_dd, tWRRD_dd, and tWRWR_dd to 0, and if you loosen tWR you might be able to run a higher frequency. I was running tWR @ 12 and ran into a wall at 4133/4200 on my kit.


For some reason it corrects any tWR I enter to uneven numbers. I had it set to 10 here which goes to 11 and if I set 12 it will go to 13? 

And what is the benefit of zeroing those out? I have seen people do that before but they are just not used right now right? I let it complete 25 runs overnight and it was fine. No errors. 4400 straight 17's with slightly looser tRDWR runs for ~20 minutes then starts to throw random error #4, #5 and #14's. Haven't figured out why yet... Unfortunately the IMC isn't great on this otherwise golden chip or the 4 DIMM board doesn't like it and won't reliably boot 4533 or above.


----------



## GeneO

Imprezzion said:


> For some reason it corrects any tWR I enter to uneven numbers. I had it set to 10 here which goes to 11 and if I set 12 it will go to 13?
> 
> And what is the benefit of zeroing those out? I have seen people do that before but they are just not used right now right? I let it complete 25 runs overnight and it was fine. No errors. 4400 straight 17's with slightly looser tRDWR runs for ~20 minutes then starts to throw random error #4, #5 and #14's. Haven't figured out why yet... Unfortunately the IMC isn't great on this otherwise golden chip or the 4 DIMM board doesn't like it and won't reliably boot 4533 or above.


Been there. You have to change twr via twrpre, otherwise you'll get this (odd) behavior. Put twr on auto and if you want to lower it by one, lower twrpre by one.

Lower trdrd_dr and _dd will give you a good boost in read performance according to









MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





I set mine from 7/7 to 5/5 and it did boost reads.


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> Been there. You have to change twr via twrpre, otherwise you'll get this (odd) behavior. Put twr on auto and if you want to lower it by one, lower twrpre by one.
> 
> Lower trdrd_dr and _dd will give you a good boost in read performance according to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> 
> 
> C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I set mine from 7/7 to 5/5 and it did boost reads.
> 
> View attachment 2562680


Oh yeah.. tWRPRE. Of course thanks. I'm used to the Z490 Ace which automatically adjusts tWRPRE based on tWR so the other way around. 

And I meant zeroing out the unused _DD's. I can't really go lower then 7 on tRDRD at this frequency as far as I've tested it. They will do 6's fine on 3866 straight 15's but as I went from a 11900K to this 10900KA and no longer have to worry about gear 1 gear 2 I can run higher frequencies now without latency penalty. I had it at 3866C15 gear 1 on the 11900K and 3800C14 on a 5900X before and also tested this kit in mate's system with another 10900KF which has a much stronger IMC and a Apex board and it will technically do 4666 17-19-19-39-370-2T or 4200 15-16-16-33-272-1T on that board and CPU with ODT at 80-40-40 and manually adjusted skews but that's a no go on this combo so far.


----------



## Outis

Scorpion667 said:


> tXP and PPD no longer tunable for z370/z390 as MemtweakIT is broken on recent Win10 versions above 1909. Confirmed on ROG forums with many sharing the same experience.
> 
> I was gonna leave RTL/IOL tweaking for last once I get my timings/frequency right. As a quick test I was able to get IOLs to 4 so there's potential there.
> 
> I stabilized 4266c16 CR1 which is a start. I'll keep poking around!
> 
> [edit] When comparing multiple TM5 run screenshots it appears that using 0.52 vREF at 1.48 vDIMM dropped the RAM temps just over 1c with identical ambients. The plot thickens [emoji23][/edit]


I had given up but looking for something else stumbled upon this ASUS MemTweakIt 20210910 Ver. | bianbao.dev anyone like myself is still on a z370/z390 this memtweak it works from the like may txp and ppl be tuned once more **** yourself asus for not fixing it and **** windows bc its a **** operating system


----------



## Outis

Scorpion667 said:


> tXP and PPD no longer tunable for z370/z390 as MemtweakIT is broken on recent Win10 versions above 1909. Confirmed on ROG forums with many sharing the same experience.
> 
> I was gonna leave RTL/IOL tweaking for last once I get my timings/frequency right. As a quick test I was able to get IOLs to 4 so there's potential there.
> 
> I stabilized 4266c16 CR1 which is a start. I'll keep poking around!
> 
> [edit] When comparing multiple TM5 run screenshots it appears that using 0.52 vREF at 1.48 vDIMM dropped the RAM temps just over 1c with identical ambients. The plot thickens [emoji23][/edit]











[Official] Intel Z690 / Z790 DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


Welcome to the Daily Memory Overclock thread for DDR4 memory on the Z690 and Z790 Chipset (LGA1700). Z690 Tools ASRock Timing Configurator (4.0.13) ASUS MemTweakIt (20210910) MSI Dragon Ball (1.0.0.08) MSI Dragon Power (1.0.0.6)




www.overclock.net


----------



## Outis

Scorpion667 said:


> tXP and PPD no longer tunable for z370/z390 as MemtweakIT is broken on recent Win10 versions above 1909. Confirmed on ROG forums with many sharing the same experience.
> 
> I was gonna leave RTL/IOL tweaking for last once I get my timings/frequency right. As a quick test I was able to get IOLs to 4 so there's potential there.
> 
> I stabilized 4266c16 CR1 which is a start. I'll keep poking around!
> 
> [edit] When comparing multiple TM5 run screenshots it appears that using 0.52 vREF at 1.48 vDIMM dropped the RAM temps just over 1c with identical ambients. The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/edit]





Scorpion667 said:


> tXP and PPD no longer tunable for z370/z390 as MemtweakIT is broken on recent Win10 versions above 1909. Confirmed on ROG forums with many sharing the same experience.
> 
> I was gonna leave RTL/IOL tweaking for last once I get my timings/frequency right. As a quick test I was able to get IOLs to 4 so there's potential there.
> 
> I stabilized 4266c16 CR1 which is a start. I'll keep poking around!
> 
> [edit] When comparing multiple TM5 run screenshots it appears that using 0.52 vREF at 1.48 vDIMM dropped the RAM temps just over 1c with identical ambients. The plot thickens [emoji23][/edit]











[Official] Intel Z690 / Z790 DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


Welcome to the Daily Memory Overclock thread for DDR4 memory on the Z690 and Z790 Chipset (LGA1700). Z690 Tools ASRock Timing Configurator (4.0.13) ASUS MemTweakIt (20210910) MSI Dragon Ball (1.0.0.08) MSI Dragon Power (1.0.0.6)




www.overclock.net




Someone fixed it was very pleased when I finally found this


----------



## GeneO

Outis said:


> [Official] Intel Z690 / Z790 DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock
> 
> 
> Welcome to the Daily Memory Overclock thread for DDR4 memory on the Z690 and Z790 Chipset (LGA1700). Z690 Tools ASRock Timing Configurator (4.0.13) ASUS MemTweakIt (20210910) MSI Dragon Ball (1.0.0.08) MSI Dragon Power (1.0.0.6)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone fixed it was very pleased when I finally found this


I was pleased to find it too (Z490).


----------



## Imprezzion

Trace Centering on or off on Z590 Hero + 10900K for higher frequency?


----------



## GeneO

Imprezzion said:


> Trace Centering on or off on Z590 Hero + 10900K for higher frequency?


It is supposed to help with command rate 1 at higher frequencies. I leave it off myself.


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> It is supposed to help with command rate 1 at higher frequencies. I leave it off myself.


Oh yeah 1T isn't gonna happen on a 4 slot Hero at 4266 or higher lol. Been gaming this evening for a bit and it was solid and stable all the way with the RAM at 4266C15 and CPU at 5.4/5.0. vCore is a bit higher then i'd like spiking around 1.488v but meh. It's fine. I got a spare. Lel.


----------



## Imprezzion

This is daily so far. Passed overnight TM5 just fine with both Anta777 Absolut 8hr test and 1usmus 50 runs 12hr test. It's up there vDIMM wise, it needs 1.60v (1.611 actual after LLC / droop) set to be stable but yeah open air with a 120mm fan blowing on them. They never get above 38c even with 1.60v in a overnight stress test. The CPU and cache are perfectly stable at 5.4/5.0 as well as long as I keep vCore above 1.412v load. It's a LOT for 10th gen but hey the chips are obsolete and cheap nowadays and I got a spare 11900K if this one ever blows up / degrades too much.


----------



## DoodieSmoothie

I can't seem to find anyone who has odd numbers in their secondary. Is it important that every number is an even number, like 2, 4 etc.? Why can't i use 5 for example, on tWTR_S or 11 on tRTP


----------



## Imprezzion

DoodieSmoothie said:


> I can't seem to find anyone who has odd numbers in their secondary. Is it important that every number is an even number, like 2, 4 etc.? Why can't i use 5 for example, on tWTR_S or 11 on tRTP


tWTR can be odd numbers, if I run different tWRRD's it goes to 3/7 so. tRTP not sure. It should be half tWR so tbh I should be at 5 now that you mentioned it hehe.


----------



## The Pook

DoodieSmoothie said:


> I can't seem to find anyone who has odd numbers in their secondary.


----------



## GeneO

My tCWL doesn't like odd values at all.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Pleased to report that I moved to Alder Lake and still can't OC ram or tighten timings at all (at least I'm consistent). Have Corsair Vengeance Pro 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 (2x16gb) and cannot move to CL16 or clock up to 3800mhz. Have tried playing with all timings and voltages. I wasn't expecting much from these sticks from the start though. Maybe I'll take another shot at tightening timings later. On another note, SA voltage is running at 1.35 which just seems way too high. I could add a negative offset, but that means removing the ability of having SA voltage lower on system idle.


----------



## Imprezzion

xGeNeSisx said:


> Pleased to report that I moved to Alder Lake and still can't OC ram or tighten timings at all (at least I'm consistent). Have Corsair Vengeance Pro 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 (2x16gb) and cannot move to CL16 or clock up to 3800mhz. Have tried playing with all timings and voltages. I wasn't expecting much from these sticks from the start though. Maybe I'll take another shot at tightening timings later. On another note, SA voltage is running at 1.35 which just seems way too high. I could add a negative offset, but that means removing the ability of having SA voltage lower on system idle.


Wait, SA voltage drops on idle on RKL? Why lol. I would imagine that would be a disaster for memory stability. 

I tried something. I set the exact same memory timings, voltages and frequency as I had on gear 2 on my 11900K which tested 5 hours of TM5 1usmus stable but on my 10900K now. Lo and behold, it's horribly unstable and errors in less then 20 minutes. I narrowed it down to tRDWR. I ran 11's on the 11900K but on the 10900K anything under 14 is unstable. What gives?


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Pleased to report that I moved to Alder Lake and still can't OC ram or tighten timings at all (at least I'm consistent). Have Corsair Vengeance Pro 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 (2x16gb) and cannot move to CL16 or clock up to 3800mhz. Have tried playing with all timings and voltages. I wasn't expecting much from these sticks from the start though. Maybe I'll take another shot at tightening timings later. On another note, SA voltage is running at 1.35 which just seems way too high. I could add a negative offset, but that means removing the ability of having SA voltage lower on system idle.


What board and CPU?


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> What board and CPU?


MSI Z690 PRO-A DDR4 w/ 12600k @ 5.2ghz
Corsair sticks are Micron - CMW32GX4M2D2600C18
XMP timings: @ 1798 MHz 18-22-22-42 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 64-990-630-468-10-8-40 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
Could be that OCCT is misreading SA voltage as something else, I'll explore in HWInfo. Alder Lake is new to me, so still figuring everything out with this architecture.


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> MSI Z690 PRO-A DDR4 w/ 12600k @ 5.2ghz
> Corsair sticks are Micron - CMW32GX4M2D2600C18
> XMP timings: @ 1798 MHz 18-22-22-42 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 64-990-630-468-10-8-40 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFC4-RRDL-RRDS-FAW)
> Could be that OCCT is misreading SA voltage as something else, I'll explore in HWInfo. Alder Lake is new to me, so still figuring everything out with this architecture.


You're IMC limited with the 12600K. Going up to 3,800 MHz or tightening tCL will be a struggle, since they both necessitate more VCCSA.
And you're already at 1.35V VCCSA, which I wouldn't suggest going beyond that for a daily machine.

You're going to have to upgrade to a better CPU or just accept things like this. Or maybe swap to a 3,600 CL14 Samsung kit instead.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> You're IMC limited with the 12600K. Going up to 3,800 MHz or tightening tCL will be a struggle, since they both necessitate more VCCSA.
> And you're already at 1.35V VCCSA, which I wouldn't suggest going beyond that for a daily machine.
> 
> You're going to have to upgrade to a better CPU or just accept things like this. Or maybe swap to a 3,600 CL14 Samsung kit instead.


Thanks for the info, suppose that's what I get for going with a 12600k over a 12700+. Memory overclocking isn't a huge priority for me, just an added bonus if it was possible. I'll leave things be and focus on the CPU as there seems to be little headroom with this config memory-wise.


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Thanks for the info, suppose that's what I get for going with a 12600k over a 12700+. Memory overclocking isn't a huge priority for me, just an added bonus if it was possible. I'll leave things be and focus on the CPU as there seems to be little headroom with this config memory-wise.


I mean, you can still _try_ to tighten the timings. Some will likely be able to budge. Just don't expect too much.


----------



## Blameless

Dusting off my weaker X99 setup so I can give it to my kid brother-in-law, who needs a new(er) PC. It's a mediocre 6800K on my old ASRock X99 OCF.

Memory is a 4x16GiB G.Skill Ageis kit of poorly binned dual-rank Hynix AFR 8Gb ICs rated for 2400 15-15-15-35. Couldn't get it to train/POST past 2400 and couldn't stabilize T1 at any voltage, but all the other timings tighened up nicely.

This is with 1.3 vDIMM, and it is stable:









Not going to set any records, but it'll do.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

I revamped my settings on my 12600k and MSI Z690, and was able to drop my voltage required for 5.2ghz to 1.28V. It appears I am now able to overclock the RAM. I was able to hit 3800 stable at 19-23-23-45 G1 and am now testing 4000 19-23-23-45 G2 as G1 would not boot. Right now I have SA at 1.35, VDDQ at 1.30, and DRAM voltage at 1.45 and can work on voltages after I determine the max frequency I can achieve. I have always been terrible at overclocking DDR4 and was virtually incapable of taking my kit past stock XMP 3200 on my last Skylake build. Very pleased now that I am figuring it out and making some headway.

With my new settings I can probably work the SA voltage down a bit. While I was trying to get higher frequencies to post the board automatically set 3800 to SA to 1.45 momentarily until I corrected it. Lesson learned to not leave it on auto at higher frequencies.

If I can get my Corsair Vengeance from 3600 CL18 to 4000+ with decent timings, I will be thrilled


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> I revamped my settings on my 12600k and MSI Z690, and was able to drop my voltage required for 5.2ghz to 1.28V. It appears I am now able to overclock the RAM. I was able to hit 3800 stable at 19-23-23-45 G1 and am now testing 4000 19-23-23-45 G2 as G1 would not boot. Right now I have SA at 1.35, VDDQ at 1.30, and DRAM voltage at 1.45 and can work on voltages after I determine the max frequency I can achieve. I have always been terrible at overclocking DDR4 and was virtually incapable of taking my kit past stock XMP 3200 on my last Skylake build. Very pleased now that I am figuring it out and making some headway.
> 
> With my new settings I can probably work the SA voltage down a bit. While I was trying to get higher frequencies to post the board automatically set 3800 to SA to 1.45 momentarily until I corrected it. Lesson learned to not leave it on auto at higher frequencies.
> 
> If I can get my Corsair Vengeance from 3600 CL18 to 4000+ with decent timings, I will be thrilled


Gear 2 sucks in every fathomably conceivable way, so don't use it even if your life depends on it.
Just max out whatever you can achieve on Gear 1, even if the frequency is low or the timings are loose.
Balance it all out with a maximum of 1.35-1.40V VCCSA and 1.50V VDDQ.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> Gear 2 sucks in every fathomably conceivable way, so don't use it even if your life depends on it.
> Just max out whatever you can achieve on Gear 1, even if the frequency is low or the timings are loose.
> Balance it all out with a maximum of 1.35-1.40V VCCSA and 1.50V VDDQ.


Yeah I looked at the latency


Ichirou said:


> Gear 2 sucks in every fathomably conceivable way, so don't use it even if your life depends on it.
> Just max out whatever you can achieve on Gear 1, even if the frequency is low or the timings are loose.
> Balance it all out with a maximum of 1.35-1.40V VCCSA and 1.50V VDDQ.


Yeah I benchmarked with AIDA and the latency was atrocious. I am able to hit 16-22-22-42 at 3600 which I'm testing right now. I'll head back to 4000 and see if I can get anything stable in G1. If not, I'll see how 3600 CL16 compares to the best timings I can reach on 3800 and go with lowest latency.


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Yeah I looked at the latency
> 
> Yeah I benchmarked with AIDA and the latency was atrocious. I am able to hit 16-22-22-42 at 3600 which I'm testing right now. I'll head back to 4000 and see if I can get anything stable in G1. If not, I'll see how 3600 CL16 compares to the best timings I can reach on 3800 and go with lowest latency.


It's unfortunate that you chose the 12600K for memory overclocking, but I can understand budget constraints. You'll just have to make do.
Throw 1.50V VDDQ and a bit more juice into your RAM (1.50V+ VDIMM) if need be just to tighten the timings.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> It's unfortunate that you chose the 12600K for memory overclocking, but I can understand budget constraints. You'll just have to make do.
> Throw 1.50V VDDQ and a bit more juice into your RAM (1.50V+ VDIMM) if need be just to tighten the timings.


Is high VDDQ needed for high frequency OC on ram? ... my VDDQ TX Voltage in HWiNFO is reporting 1.200V ... wondering if I should maybe raise it to 1.350V for more stable ram OC? ... feel like 1.500V is a little bit to much haha


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Is high VDDQ needed for high frequency OC on ram? ... my VDDQ TX Voltage in HWiNFO is reporting 1.200V ... wondering if I should maybe raise it to 1.350V for more stable ram OC? ... feel like 1.500V is a little bit to much haha


I initially thought that VDDQ did... absolutely nothing, but after swapping from Samsung B-die to Micron B-die, I noticed that raising VDDQ decreases the VDIMM requirement.
With my 4x16 GB 4,133 CL14 1T Gear 1 config, I cannot run with 1.40V VDDQ or less or else I get low voltage errors in TM5. Tried to decrease it many times.

An ASUS representative personally stated that 1.50V VDDQ is perfectly safe due to the nature of how it works, so I haven't put in any effort to testing between 1.40-1.50V.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> I initially thought that VDDQ did... absolutely nothing, but after swapping from Samsung B-die to Micron B-die, I noticed that raising VDDQ decreases the VDIMM requirement.
> With my 4x16 GB 4,133 CL14 1T Gear 1 config, I cannot run with 1.40V VDDQ or less or else I get low voltage errors in TM5. Tried to decrease it many times.
> 
> An ASUS representative personally stated that 1.50V VDDQ is perfectly safe due to the nature of how it works, so I haven't put in any effort to testing between 1.40-1.50V.


Okey I see, I got "G.Skill 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z 3200MHz DDR4 ( F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK ) | XMP Rated timings are 14-14-14-34 @ 1.350V""
Been looking all over the place what would be my best option to do with it, I got no fan over it so I am not willing to bump my vDimm up by a whole lot haha .... I am always thinking about going into BIOS and testing something but then I think about my PC not posting and needing to CMOS reset or something like that and I just do not do anything haha :'D

Horrible I know:


http://imgur.com/6uLBtzN


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Okey I see, I got "G.Skill 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z 3200MHz DDR4 ( F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK ) | XMP Rated timings are 14-14-14-34 @ 1.350V""
> Been looking all over the place what would be my best option to do with it, I got no fan over it so I am not willing to bump my vDimm up by a whole lot haha .... I am always thinking about going into BIOS and testing something but then I think about my PC not posting and needing to CMOS reset or something like that and I just do not do anything haha :'D


Memory overclocking is different for everyone; if you are content and/or feel safer with sticking to XMP, then do so.
It's not easy for beginners, and a lot of CPU overclockers don't know how to overclock memory. I wouldn't call it hard, but there is a lot to learn.
And DDR5 seems to be even more complex than DDR4 this time around, as it involves more voltage tweaking.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> Memory overclocking is different for everyone; if you are content and/or feel safer with sticking to XMP, then do so.
> It's not easy for beginners, and a lot of CPU overclockers don't know how to overclock memory. I wouldn't call it hard, but there is a lot to learn.
> And DDR5 seems to be even more complex than DDR4 this time around, as it involves more voltage tweaking.


Yeah true, I know a little bit about CPU overclocking but DRAM overclocking is so much more complex, I btw uploaded a pic of my timings and hwinfo above.... feel like I am putting my B-Die DRAM to shame with not doing anything to, more then XMP that is haha


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Yeah true, I know a little bit about CPU overclocking but DRAM overclocking is so much more complex, I btw uploaded a pic of my timings and hwinfo above.... feel like I am putting my B-Die DRAM to shame with not doing anything to, more then XMP that is haha


Honestly, knowing to turn on XMP and deliberately picking a tight Samsung B-die kit already puts you ahead of over 80% of consumer PC users.
Memory overclocking can be an interesting hobby, if you want to put the time into it.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> Honestly, knowing to turn on XMP and deliberately picking a tight Samsung B-die kit already puts you ahead of over 80% of consumer PC users.
> Memory overclocking can be an interesting hobby, if you want to put the time into it.


Yeah I guess you are right, might go for something like 1.450V on vDimm so I can maybe lower tRFC to 300 and raise tREFI to 30000 or something like that... been seeing most people talk about those 2 for best performance, and ofc frequency and Primary Timings. Feel like tRFC @ 560 is way to high and tREFI @ 12480 is way to low for my ram kit but that is just what my motherboard did (ASRock Z690 Extreme)


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Yeah I guess you are right, might go for something like 1.450V on vDimm so I can maybe lower tRFC to 300 and raise tREFI to 30000 or something like that... been seeing most people talk about those 2 for best performance, and ofc frequency and Primary Timings. Feel like tRFC @ 560 is way to high and tREFI @ 12480 is way to low for my ram kit but that is just what my motherboard did (ASRock Z690 Extreme)


XMP more or less only sets the primaries and at best a couple of the secondaries. Everything else is left loose on purpose.
The easiest way to learn is to just copy another person's settings. Test quickly with TM5 1usmus and run TM5 anta777 overnight.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> XMP more or less only sets the primaries and at best a couple of the secondaries. Everything else is left loose on purpose.
> The easiest way to learn is to just copy another person's settings. Test quickly with TM5 1usmus and run TM5 anta777 overnight.


Yeah you are totally right, one more thing... I always see people talking about CMOS reset, is that just a part of the dram oc journey or is that only if you go to far?
Like my XMP Profile did not boot at first when it was training but it just took my back to BIOS, did not have to CMOS reset... if my dram oc is unstable will it just not boot and take me back to BIOS or do you usually have to CMOS reset?

THANKS!


----------



## Ichirou

SAEVARM3 said:


> Yeah you are totally right, one more thing... I always see people talking about CMOS reset, is that just a part of the dram oc journey or is that only if you go to far?
> Like my XMP Profile did not boot at first when it was training but it just took my back to BIOS, did not have to CMOS reset... if my dram oc is unstable will it just not boot and take me back to BIOS or do you usually have to CMOS reset?
> 
> THANKS!


Well, the simplified science is that the PC loads stuff into memory, which includes not only the OS but also the BIOS.
If you're fiddling around with the memory, sometimes if some settings are insanely unstable, it can corrupt it, which causes a plethora of problems.

CMOS resetting is something you do when you reach a point where you cannot even enter the BIOS again to undo the changes you made.
It's also a quick way to completely reset the BIOS settings.
You generally don't need to resort to using it except for that, or maybe the PC acting up all weird.

In serious cases, you might need to reflash the BIOS entirely.


----------



## SAEVARM3

Ichirou said:


> Well, the simplified science is that the PC loads stuff into memory, which includes not only the OS but also the BIOS.
> If you're fiddling around with the memory, sometimes if some settings are insanely unstable, it can corrupt it, which causes a plethora of problems.
> 
> CMOS resetting is something you do when you reach a point where you cannot even enter the BIOS again to undo the changes you made.
> It's also a quick way to completely reset the BIOS settings.
> You generally don't need to resort to using it except for that, or maybe the PC acting up all weird.


Okey mate, thanks for taking the time out of your day to chat with me... much appreciated <3


----------



## Imprezzion

In general, most boards have a BIOS safe mode that triggers with a unstable OC however with RAM OC instability is quite common for it to hang on POST and never trigger safe mode. Sometimes holding power and turning it off and back on will trigger safe mode but if it won't and it boot loops again it will need a CMOS clear. 

Just my advice, save a BIOS profile with all your normal basic settings applied like fan curve, boot order, onboard device config, CPU OC, but with stock RAM, so you can reload that after a CMOS Clear and don't have to start from the beginning again.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> It's unfortunate that you chose the 12600K for memory overclocking, but I can understand budget constraints. You'll just have to make do.
> Throw 1.50V VDDQ and a bit more juice into your RAM (1.50V+ VDIMM) if need be just to tighten the timings.


Definitely don't regret getting the 12600k as it meets all of my needs, but it is unfortunate that I didn't think of memory OC potential when purchasing. Stable at 4000mhz G1 19-26-26-46, 1.25 SA, 1.25 VDDQ, and 1.40 VDRAM. Tried to go to 4200, but it's hard to hit in G1. I tried 20-30-30-50, 21-30-30-52, and 21-32-32-54 with no success even at higher voltages. One of the most beneficial things out of all of this is that I was able to get my SA voltages under control. The auto settings are insane. Even at 4000, SA 1.35 is wholly unnecessary. In fact performance seems better with lower SA. This matches my experience with Skylake as manufacturers pump so much voltage into VCCIO and VCCSA by default. Excessive voltages also seemed to harm performance and also stability. As I continue to be able to post I can probably lower SA a lot more.

I had to increase VCore for 5.2ghz a bit as it seems 4.0ghz E-cores and 4.0ghz ring were siphoning a bit too much voltage from P-cores. Memory and CPU were independently stable, but when tested together and hammering the IMC instability resulted. Problem now appears to be remedied.

4000mhz 19-26-26-46 gives me similar latency in AIDA to 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 and a decent increase in R/W/C values. The system is much more responsive at 4000mhz and fully boots into Windows much faster.


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Definitely don't regret getting the 12600k as it meets all of my needs, but it is unfortunate that I didn't think of memory OC potential when purchasing. Stable at 4000mhz G1 19-26-26-46, 1.25 SA, 1.25 VDDQ, and 1.40 VDRAM. Tried to go to 4200, but it's hard to hit in G1. I tried 20-30-30-50, 21-30-30-52, and 21-32-32-54 with no success even at higher voltages. One of the most beneficial things out of all of this is that I was able to get my SA voltages under control. The auto settings are insane. Even at 4000, SA 1.35 is wholly unnecessary. In fact performance seems better with lower SA. This matches my experience with Skylake as manufacturers pump so much voltage into VCCIO and VCCSA by default. Excessive voltages also seemed to harm performance and also stability. As I continue to be able to post I can probably lower SA a lot more.
> 
> I had to increase VCore for 5.2ghz a bit as it seems 4.0ghz E-cores and 4.0ghz ring were siphoning a bit too much voltage from P-cores. Memory and CPU were independently stable, but when tested together and hammering the IMC instability resulted. Problem now appears to be remedied.
> 
> 4000mhz 19-26-26-46 gives me similar latency in AIDA to 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 and a decent increase in R/W/C values.


You should never go past CL18 for tCL. If you must do that, it's usually better to clock down the frequency and tighten the timings further.
Don't hesitate to test up to 1.35V VCCSA and see what you can achieve with it.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> You should never go past CL18 for tCL. If you must do that, it's usually better to clock down the frequency and tighten the timings further.
> Don't hesitate to test up to 1.35V VCCSA and see what you can achieve with it.


Thanks, I was able to get to CL18 at 4000. Testing 18-24-24-43 right now.








Vs 3600 CL16


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Thanks, I was able to get to CL18 at 4000. Testing 18-24-24-43 right now.
> View attachment 2563498
> 
> Vs 3600 CL16
> View attachment 2563500


Nice improvement.
Have you tested out every single BIOS yet? The reason why it is important is because sometimes some BIOSes allow you to overclock further.

Example 1: BIOS A might not like tCL at 17 for 4,000 MHz; refuses to boot. But BIOS B might boot tCL 17 at 4,000 MHz just fine.
Example 2: BIOS A might need 1.35V VCCSA to run the current config. But BIOS B might only need 1.30V VCCSA to run the same config.

You'll have to spend some time to test each BIOS out. Unfortunately, since MSI doesn't allow you to copy settings between BIOS versions, you'll have to take notes/photos.

I know for an absolute fact that BIOS V1.22 is the best for memory overclocking on the MSI Edge, as it is the only one that'll boot tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg down to 5 for me.
But that BIOS version only works for non-12900KS chips.
For the 12900KS, BIOS V1.44 is better than V1.30 as it allows me to run with less VTT voltage, and seems to train a bit better.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> Nice improvement.
> Have you tested out every single BIOS yet? The reason why it is important is because sometimes some BIOSes allow you to overclock further.
> 
> Example 1: BIOS A might not like tCL at 17 for 4,000 MHz; refuses to boot. But BIOS B might boot tCL 17 at 4,000 MHz just fine.
> Example 2: BIOS A might need 1.35V VCCSA to run the current config. But BIOS B might only need 1.30V VCCSA to run the same config.
> 
> You'll have to spend some time to test each BIOS out. Unfortunately, since MSI doesn't allow you to copy settings between BIOS versions, you'll have to take notes/photos.
> 
> I know for an absolute fact that BIOS V1.22 is the best for memory overclocking on the MSI Edge, as it is the only one that'll boot tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg down to 5 for me.
> But that BIOS version only works for non-12900KS chips.
> For the 12900KS, BIOS V1.44 is better than V1.30 as it allows me to run with less VTT voltage, and seems to train a bit better.


Had to move tRAS from 43 to 46 as MemTest was throwing errors, but it looks good now.
Currently running 7D25v14 (1.43) from 2022-05-24, but haven't really thought of reverting back to 1.22. I may try a different version down the line. Think I may stay at current bios and try to tighten secondary timings and drop voltages. I think I hit the limit as far as G1 goes with this config. I could try and hit CAS17, but I don't know how successful I'll be.


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Had to move tRAS from 43 to 46 as MemTest was throwing errors, but it looks good now.
> Currently running 7D25v14 (1.43) from 2022-05-24, but haven't really thought of reverting back to 1.22. I may try a different version down the line. Think I may stay at current bios and try to tighten secondary timings and drop voltages. I think I hit the limit as far as G1 goes with this config. I could try and hit CAS17, but I don't know how successful I'll be.


The MSI PRO and EDGE BIOSes differ, so you cannot take my BIOS recommendations as gospel.
However, usually most BIOSes get released as batches around the same time, so if you have a BIOS that was released around Feb. 18, that is most likely the equivalent on the PRO.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> The MSI PRO and EDGE BIOSes differ, so you cannot take my BIOS recommendations as gospel.
> However, usually most BIOSes get released as batches around the same time, so if you have a BIOS that was released around Feb. 18, that is most likely the equivalent on the PRO.


Closest BIOS from that time is 7D25v1220 from 22-03-01 (before KS microcode update). I may give it a shot sometime. Wanted to thank you for your help with getting my kit to 4000. Hit 150% coverage and no errors thus far, so it appears I'm good to go. I'll let it run to 500% just to be sure.


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Closest BIOS from that time is 7D25v1220 from 22-03-01 (before KS microcode update). I may give it a shot sometime. Wanted to thank you for your help with getting my kit to 4000. Hit 150% coverage and no errors thus far, so it appears I'm good to go. I'll let it run to 500% just to be sure.


Run TM5 1usmus and anta777 instead. If Karhu, at least 5,000-10,000% coverage.
All other tests pale in comparison for memory overclocking.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> Run TM5 1usmus and anta777 instead. If Karhu, at least 5,000-10,000% coverage.
> All other tests pale in comparison for memory overclocking.


Running TM5 now with the config loaded, thanks!
Edit: stable!


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I put my side panel back on as a test and that kinda proves how incredibly temperature sensitive my G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die is.. it does have a 120mm fan blowing on it but with the side panel closed it has to eat the full heat output of my Nemesis GTX420 rad in the front and still gets hot. 

Without side panel: 38-39c full load.
With side panel: 47-49c load. 

As soon as the DIMM's go over 46c they get horribly unstable to the point of crash to desktop in games and errors galore in TM5. However, it passed 5.5 hours of TM5 1usmus just fine at 38c and never crashes a game. The 1.61v vDIMM I'm running for 4266C15 isn't helping lol. 

I might just have to either get an open air style case or waterblock the RAM. Any of you guys run a waterblock on G.Skill Trident-Z Neo's and which block would you recommend?


----------



## Taraquin

3700 gear 1 with the limited 0,95v SA voltage on my 12400F has been stable for 24 hours now, wonder if it will work in the long run?


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Well, I put my side panel back on as a test and that kinda proves how incredibly temperature sensitive my G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die is.. it does have a 120mm fan blowing on it but with the side panel closed it has to eat the full heat output of my Nemesis GTX420 rad in the front and still gets hot.
> 
> Without side panel: 38-39c full load.
> With side panel: 47-49c load.
> 
> As soon as the DIMM's go over 46c they get horribly unstable to the point of crash to desktop in games and errors galore in TM5. However, it passed 5.5 hours of TM5 1usmus just fine at 38c and never crashes a game. The 1.61v vDIMM I'm running for 4266C15 isn't helping lol.
> 
> I might just have to either get an open air style case or waterblock the RAM. Any of you guys run a waterblock on G.Skill Trident-Z Neo's and which block would you recommend?


i purchased the 2x16 4400 c17 gskill kit at very good price. What do you have to enable for dual rank ram? Just rank interleave? Thanks.


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> i purchased the 2x16 4400 c17 gskill kit at very good price. What do you have to enable for dual rank ram? Just rank interleave? Thanks.


Basically yes. Then again, a memory change usually sets up factory defaults and should automatically enable interleaving unless you load a BIOS profile that had it off.


----------



## Martin v r

10600K an SA/IO
have long tried to get my G.skill 4000MHZ cl17-17-17-37 1.35v over 4300MHZ, they have run fine 4300MHZ cl16-16-16-36 1.53v
so I 0 set my bios, and started over, now they run 4400MHZ but can not a low a cl make a cl18-18-18-39 at 1.5v and can not get SA / IO below 1.4v and that applies to both of them, is it my mem crontrol that is bad or just my ram that has run out of gunpowder

it quite high that SA / IO must be so high up to run 4400MHZ


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Basically yes. Then again, a memory change usually sets up factory defaults and should automatically enable interleaving unless you load a BIOS profile that had it off.


should i do cmos before installing new ram? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

Has anyone ever had a situation where you manage to boot an insanely tight config once, and then never manage to do so _ever _again?

I managed to boot and pass TM5 1usmus stable (over six cycles) with *4,000 CL13 1T on Gear 1 with 4x16 GB* last night, and then after I saved the profile and shut down to sleep, it never booted that config ever again the next morning. I've spent an entire day trying to get it booting again, but to no avail. The absolute closest I can get is roughly 3,975 MHz.

I've tried playing around with the Vref slopes, but it seems that they are best left on Auto since the board seems to train them perfectly fine. RTTs and ODTs are perfect.
One would imagine that I'd hit upon _one _lucky boot after trying _several hundred times_, but it hasn't happened even once since.
Could it be caused by CPU mounting pressure? Higher ambient temp? MOSFETs overheating or something?

I've already tried increasing voltages, but that changes nothing. It's like, as I keep pushing frequency higher and higher, once I go past 3,975 MHz, the board just says no. Doesn't even boot and BSOD. Just refuses to POST. I know there is no issue with memory scaling, so there has to be something else funky going on.

Certainly, 3,975 MHz is insanely good already, but now that I know I can do 4,000 MHz, I can't help but want to regain it.


----------



## Martin v r

Ichirou said:


> Has anyone ever had a situation where you manage to boot an insanely tight config once, and then never manage to do so _ever _again?
> 
> I managed to boot and pass TM5 1usmus stable (over six cycles) with *4,000 CL13 1T on Gear 1 with 4x16 GB* last night, and then after I saved the profile and shut down to sleep, it never booted that config ever again the next morning. I've spent an entire day trying to get it booting again, but to no avail. The absolute closest I can get is roughly 3,975 MHz.
> 
> I've tried playing around with the Vref slopes, but it seems that they are best left on Auto since the board seems to train them perfectly fine. RTTs and ODTs are perfect.
> One would imagine that I'd hit upon _one _lucky boot after trying _several hundred times_, but it hasn't happened even once since.
> Could it be caused by CPU mounting pressure? Higher ambient temp? MOSFETs overheating or something?
> 
> I've already tried increasing voltages, but that changes nothing. It's like, as I keep pushing frequency higher and higher, once I go past 3,975 MHz, the board just says no. Doesn't even boot and BSOD. Just refuses to POST. I know there is no issue with memory scaling, so there has to be something else funky going on.
> 
> Certainly, 3,975 MHz is insanely good already, but now that I know I can do 4,000 MHz, I can't help but want to regain it.


yes then you just have to set the bios to 0, and start over, mostly experienced it on asus, but sometimes it does so on this MSI motherboard, motherboard locks in the bios, so I have to peel the battery out, and boot it up with other mem before I can put them in again I need to use


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> should i do cmos before installing new ram?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


No, not needed. It will boot into safe mode as it detects a RAM change. If you set up the RAM or just load XMP for the first boot from there you should be fine. Just don't load a profile that was set up with different RAM. 

I always advice people to set up a BIOS profile with CPU OC, fan profiles, onboard device settings, boot settings and such configured but with RAM left on Auto so you have a profile to fall back on when a OC goes bad or you switch RAM.


----------



## Ichirou

Martin v r said:


> yes then you just have to set the bios to 0, and start over, mostly experienced it on asus, but sometimes it does so on this MSI motherboard, motherboard locks in the bios, so I have to peel the battery out, and boot it up with other mem before I can put them in again I need to use


I'll give a CMOS reset and yet another BIOS reflashing a try then. Why not.

*Update*: No dice; didn't work.


----------



## Martin v r

hmm
sometimes the bios can get stuck even with the battery out, have you tried another set of mem, can sometimes help, last time, I had to do another 3 sets of mem, thought my motherboard had died


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> No, not needed. It will boot into safe mode as it detects a RAM change. If you set up the RAM or just load XMP for the first boot from there you should be fine. Just don't load a profile that was set up with different RAM.
> 
> I always advice people to set up a BIOS profile with CPU OC, fan profiles, onboard device settings, boot settings and such configured but with RAM left on Auto so you have a profile to fall back on when a OC goes bad or you switch RAM.


finally i tuned my new ram, gsat and tm absolut stable. Only problem is trdrd sg cant go lower. What do you think? With tcke 2 i have better read performance


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> finally i tuned my new ram, gsat and tm absolut stable. Only problem is trdrd sg cant go lower. What do you think? With tcke 2 i have better read performance
> 
> View attachment 2563970
> View attachment 2563971


Looks great. Much stronger OC then my DIMM's can handle. I can do 4400-17-17-17 with way looser tRDWR's but CL16 is a no go and anything under 15 tRDWR's is also not possible at 4400. I wouldn't worry about traded as much. The impact on performance is small at best. I can run 7 at 4400 or 6 at 4266 but there's barely any difference outside of margin of error in most benches. At what DRAM voltage is this?


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Looks great. Much stronger OC then my DIMM's can handle. I can do 4400-17-17-17 with way looser tRDWR's but CL16 is a no go and anything under 15 tRDWR's is also not possible at 4400. I wouldn't worry about traded as much. The impact on performance is small at best. I can run 7 at 4400 or 6 at 4266 but there's barely any difference outside of margin of error in most benches. At what DRAM voltage is this?


Thanks a lot. Vdimm is 1.55, sa 1.380 and io 1.350, vcore 1.300. The impressive thing is that they run a 50 degrees temp with no issues (i dont have any liquid cooling).


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> Thanks a lot. Vdimm is 1.55, sa 1.380 and io 1.350, vcore 1.300. The impressive thing is that they run a 50 degrees temp with no issues (i dont have any liquid cooling).


That is impressive indeed. As I posted before mine crash above 46c at 1.61v vdimm but I can make them stable at any temperature by lowering overall timings. 4200 17-17-17 @ 1.450v vdimm will basically run at any temp. I tested it up to 62c by just turning all the fans off and closing the side panel to basically simulate worst case summer temperatures and it's fine there. Then again, without a side panel and with a 120mm Alpenfohn Wing Boost 3 @ 1000RPM pointed straight at them they don't go over 39c even at 1.61v in 24c ambients so..


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> That is impressive indeed. As I posted before mine crash above 46c at 1.61v vdimm but I can make them stable at any temperature by lowering overall timings. 4200 17-17-17 @ 1.450v vdimm will basically run at any temp. I tested it up to 62c by just turning all the fans off and closing the side panel to basically simulate worst case summer temperatures and it's fine there. Then again, without a side panel and with a 120mm Alpenfohn Wing Boost 3 @ 1000RPM pointed straight at them they don't go over 39c even at 1.61v in 24c ambients so..


i have 3 sw3 on front running full speed 2200 rpmwith open case when i stress ram. The dimms start from 37 degrees and reach 50, then stabilize. The kit is 4400c17 2x16...i know it could be waste of money nowdays, but i really wanted to try some dr rams and i wont change my platform very soon

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## SAEVARM3

Hello,

I have been wondering about VDDQ TX Voltage, HWiNFO is reporting 1.200V and VDD_IMC is 1.200 in BIOS.... is ASRock BIOS reporting VDDQ as VDD_IMC in BIOS?

If not I can not see where I change VDDQ TX Voltage in BIOS :/ ... wanted to try 1.350 for VDDQ TX for higher memory frequency


----------



## bhav

1.75v, Micron B die / Crucial Ballstix Max, 4600CL15-22-22-46.


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> finally i tuned my new ram, gsat and tm absolut stable. Only problem is trdrd sg cant go lower. What do you think? With tcke 2 i have better read performance
> 
> View attachment 2563970
> View attachment 2563971


volt set to mem an SA/IO plz


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


> volt set to mem an SA/IO plz


as i told 1.550/1.380/1.350

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

just need to hear? do people use HT on ore off when you set mem so high up? I have always driven with HT on


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


> just need to hear? do people use HT on ore off when you set mem so high up? I have always driven with HT on


always ht on

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Taraquin

Taraquin said:


> 3700 gear 1 with the limited 0,95v SA voltage on my 12400F has been stable for 24 hours now, wonder if it will work in the long run?


6 days now, no file corruption, maybe 3733 or 3800 is doable in gear 1 with the abysmal locked SA voltage of 0.95v? I wonder how far this could have OCed with unlocked SA. Maybe 4200-4300? Combined with a bclk oc of 5GHz+ and B-die this would have been the best bang for bucks combo out there, but as for now my Ryzen 5600X costs the same and performs 5% (10% better with rev E on 12400F) better in most games with 4000cl16 tuned B-die and +200 pbo + co vs 3700 g1 tuned on 12400F. Why did you botch this Intel?


----------



## bhav

Asrock sent me a custom bios for my Z690M-ITX/AX for 1.75v ram support after much begging.

Stock bios only allowed 1.65v max, and I could only get to 4800CL17 at 1.6v with 24/7 stability.

Now pushing for 4800CL16, 1.68 and 1.7 errored, currently testing 1.72v. Will post a screenie after if its stable.

It does mean needing to use gear 2 though. And nope, errors at 1.72v damn, will try a bit more SA voltage.

There we go, just needed an extra 25mv on the SA, currently at 1.7v, but it might still be ok at 1.66-1.69, I'll test that another time:


----------



## Ichirou

bhav said:


> Asrock sent me a custom bios for my Z690M-ITX/AX for 1.75v ram support after much begging.
> 
> Stock bios only allowed 1.65v max, and I could only get to 4800CL17 at 1.6v with 24/7 stability.
> 
> Now pushing for 4800CL16, 1.68 and 1.7 errored, currently testing 1.72v. Will post a screenie after if its stable.
> 
> It does mean needing to use gear 2 though. And nope, errors at 1.72v damn, will try a bit more SA voltage.
> 
> There we go, just needed an extra 25mv on the SA, currently at 1.7v, but it might still be ok at 1.66-1.69, I'll test that another time:


You should share the BIOS with the community, however little it may be (ASRock, lol).
Also, no CPUs can hit over 4,300 MHz stable on Gear 1 with even the most golden 12900K IMCs right now. So you'd obviously need to run it on Gear 2.


----------



## bhav

Ichirou said:


> You should share the BIOS with the community, however little it may be (ASRock, lol).
> Also, no CPUs can hit over 4,300 MHz stable on Gear 1 with even the most golden 12900K IMCs right now. So you'd obviously need to run it on Gear 2.


First they were like 'I've spoken to our technical team and they say no cos it could damage the ram'.

So I sent them my Z490 screenie and told them its ram specific, the last gen of Micron B die loves high voltage and still runs cool etc and it only cost me £180 on post DDR5 sales, and its already been running at 1.75v for about 8 months without issue.

Looking back though, I don't recommend anyone buy 4400+ DDR4 ram no matter how cheap it is now as getting it to actually work is a nightmare. But I did not like early DDR5 latencies, but current stuff is better once you OC it to10 Ghz+. I should have just paid the extra and stuck to my usual Asus Strix ITX boards, this Asrock one is junk but it was a lot cheaper with this board and ram.

The crappy VRM is enough for a 5 Ghz Pcore & cache / 4 Ghz ecore on my 12600K though, but the board is no good for any higher CPU than that.


----------



## nikolaus85

i have problem with time spy: all the tests showed improvements, but time spy is inconsistent. With sr it scored 13000, now with dr sometimes 13400, but some other times 12500, 12700, 12800. I getting crazy to understand why. Sottr showed improvements as well.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Pk1

OK so I'm new to this but so far everything seems to be improving but my RTL and IOL for (CHB) seem to be quite a bit higher than the others. I have Round Trip Latency Enabled, Memory Fast Boot set to Slow Training, and Latency Mode set to Dynamic. The mobo just doesn't seem to train that channel correctly or apply manual values. My twRRD also seems to always post an odd number even though it is set to 30/26 in Bios. Any help with these issues or any other timings that need changed would be much appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## Imprezzion

Pk1 said:


> View attachment 2564510
> 
> 
> OK so I'm new to this but so far everything seems to be improving but my RTL and IOL for (CHB) seem to be quite a bit higher than the others. I have Round Trip Latency Enabled, Memory Fast Boot set to Slow Training, and Latency Mode set to Dynamic. The mobo just doesn't seem to train that channel correctly or apply manual values. My twRRD also seems to always post an odd number even though it is set to 30/26 in Bios. Any help with these issues or any other timings that need changed would be much appreciated. Thank you!


Do you have tWTR set manually or Auto? tWRRD is coupled to tWTR so if tWTR is set manually it will force tWRRD to different values.

The RTL/IO training can be manually fixed by applying an offset on that channel higher then 21. 21 is Auto so if it is 3 off on the training use 24. CHA and CHB can have different offsets. I, for example, use 22/24 to train 59/60/6/6 otherwise it's 60/63.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Do you have tWTR set manually or Auto? tWRRD is coupled to tWTR so if tWTR is set manually it will force tWRRD to different values.
> 
> The RTL/IO training can be manually fixed by applying an offset on that channel higher then 21. 21 is Auto so if it is 3 off on the training use 24. CHA and CHB can have different offsets. I, for example, use 22/24 to train 59/60/6/6 otherwise it's 60/63.


how do you set manually rlts-iols? I always have to wait they are trained properly and lock them, but i was never able to modify them.


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> how do you set manually rlts-iols? I always have to wait they are trained properly and lock them, but i was never able to modify them.


Depends on the board and generation of CPU. 11th gen can't, 10th gen can on Z490 and 590 for example. It's easier on MSI then on ASUS but both should work. For 10th gen just set the initials to whatever value you think will work (for 4266C15 I use 62/62/1/1) and correct it with offsets if it trains weird. 11th gen is stuck on whatever round trip latency enabled gives you afaik.


----------



## Pk1

Imprezzion said:


> Do you have tWTR set manually or Auto? tWRRD is coupled to tWTR so if tWTR is set manually it will force tWRRD to different values.
> 
> The RTL/IO training can be manually fixed by applying an offset on that channel higher then 21. 21 is Auto so if it is 3 off on the training use 24. CHA and CHB can have different offsets. I, for example, use 22/24 to train 59/60/6/6 otherwise it's 60/63.


OK great! So my IOL offsets are what is causing the issue. I have them both set to 22 and that's probably why there is a difference. I think I have tWTR set to Auto and then 30/26 on the tWRRD but you're probably right and I have manual values in both spots causing the issue. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Netarangi

Is 1.37v VCCSA bad for 12700kf daily? Finally got my ram cl14 3800mhz stable but need 1.37v

Honestly don't care if it dies, I'm getting raptor lake on release


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Depends on the board and generation of CPU. 11th gen can't, 10th gen can on Z490 and 590 for example. It's easier on MSI then on ASUS but both should work. For 10th gen just set the initials to whatever value you think will work (for 4266C15 I use 62/62/1/1) and correct it with offsets if it trains weird. 11th gen is stuck on whatever round trip latency enabled gives you afaik.


do you set fixed or dynamic mode?
These are my results on sottr:


----------



## TheHunter

Hi, 

which ram would be better

Gskill neoz - F4-3600C16D-32GTZN 

Or Royal silver - F4-3600C16D-32GTRS


I've read that this newer Neo model GTZ*N* is better bin then GTZR which is also a older neo model. While Royal Silver is only this older GTRS, newer version is already CL16-19-19-19.
Im only a little interested in Royal silver if it has better cooling.. Does it?


----------



## Ichirou

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> which ram would be better
> 
> Gskill neoz - F4-3600C16D-32GTZN
> 
> Or Royal silver - F4-3600C16D-32GTRS
> 
> 
> I've read that this newer Neo model GTZ*N* is better bin then GTZR which is also a older neo model. While Royal Silver is only this older GTRS, newer version is already CL16-19-19-19.
> Im only a little interested in Royal silver if it has better cooling.. Does it?


Older bins are usually better.
Cooling for G.Skill largely sucks due to design, but you should be adding your own cooling anyway.
Get the one with the tightest timings. So 16-16-16-XX.


----------



## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> which ram would be better
> 
> Gskill neoz - F4-3600C16D-32GTZN
> 
> Or Royal silver - F4-3600C16D-32GTRS
> 
> 
> I've read that this newer Neo model GTZ*N* is better bin then GTZR which is also a older neo model. While Royal Silver is only this older GTRS, newer version is already CL16-19-19-19.
> Im only a little interested in Royal silver if it has better cooling.. Does it?


I own 2 kits of the GTZN's (one in a mates rig I build and maintain) which are also getting pretty old by now. It's a middle of the road bin. They do well but don't expect miracles. 4400 straight 17's seems to be the sweet spot. Both kits do that at 1.50-1.52v but not much higher. Cooling is not that bad on them. They rely heavily on active airflow. I can keep them under 40c at 1.61v but that takes an open air case design and a 1000RPM fan blowing on them. In a closed case with a front radiator adding hot air to the case and with no active airflow they do poorly.


----------



## TheHunter

Ichirou said:


> Older bins are usually better.
> Cooling for G.Skill largely sucks due to design, but you should be adding your own cooling anyway.
> Get the one with the tightest timings. So 16-16-16-XX.





Imprezzion said:


> I own 2 kits of the GTZN's (one in a mates rig I build and maintain) which are also getting pretty old by now. It's a middle of the road bin. They do well but don't expect miracles. 4400 straight 17's seems to be the sweet spot. Both kits do that at 1.50-1.52v but not much higher. Cooling is not that bad on them. They rely heavily on active airflow. I can keep them under 40c at 1.61v but that takes an open air case design and a 1000RPM fan blowing on them. In a closed case with a front radiator adding hot air to the case and with no active airflow they do poorly.



I see thanks for replies.

Which ram ideally with b-die would have the best air cooling, Corsair dominator platinum 3600 CL14? I remember one member here saying they're really cool even at 1.6v+. Is it true?

But then again can't get them atm, out of stock even at their own site


----------



## The Pook

you're overthinking it, buy a good bin and give it some airflow and call it a day.

for anyone to objectively know which RAM has "the best air cooling" you'd need to find someone who owned and tested every single kit of DDR4 in an identical setup.


----------



## bhav

How to cool that ram:










I've been considering getting a Dark Rock TF2 cooler as the height will fit this case, but I'm unsure about mobo compatibility and it looks like it would block a ram slot 

I'll try sending be quiet an email to ask.

Actually it looks like it would block the back fan slots too, so meh. Kraken X42 is doing fine for 5 Ghz on the 12600k.


----------



## The Pook

the internet and that build is a series of tubes


----------



## bhav

Also neither 4800 CL16 nor 4600 CL15 will get stability past 30mins or so with the extra voltage bios, so it looks like the IMC on my 12600K isn't as good as my 10900K's was.


----------



## SAEVARM3

bhav said:


> How to cool that ram:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been considering getting a Dark Rock TF2 cooler as the height will fit this case, but I'm unsure about mobo compatibility and it looks like it would block a ram slot
> 
> I'll try sending be quiet an email to ask.
> 
> Actually it looks like it would block the back fan slots too, so meh. Kraken X42 is doing fine for 5 Ghz on the 12600k.


What in the lord is going on in that case, got a headache looking at it hahaha


----------



## bhav

SAEVARM3 said:


> What in the lord is going on in that case, got a headache looking at it hahaha


Case too smoll, cables too big.

The darkrock cooler would help a lot with removing the AIO tubes, but while the height will fit, I'm unsure if the width will.

Its stuck inside a vented cabinet and cant be seen anyway, except I need to open a door when ambient is over 30c as it was burning to the touch during the 34c heatwave. The setup only has negative pressure.


----------



## Imprezzion

Which is more likely to cause CPU L0 errors. IO or SA voltage? I narrowed it down to either of those 2 but in my infinite wisdom I changed both by 0.02v and testing it takes hours.. Errors are gone tho. 

It's weird. It passes memory or CPU stress tests just fine but in games like Division 2 when doing raids or anything with a lot of players around it errors and even BSOD's sometimes. It never happens when I play solo tho.. I raised IO from 1.27 to 1.29 and SA from 1.34 to 1.36 and it's been fine ever since but still..


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Which is more likely to cause CPU L0 errors. IO or SA voltage? I narrowed it down to either of those 2 but in my infinite wisdom I changed both by 0.02v and testing it takes hours.. Errors are gone tho.
> 
> It's weird. It passes memory or CPU stress tests just fine but in games like Division 2 when doing raids or anything with a lot of players around it errors and even BSOD's sometimes. It never happens when I play solo tho.. I raised IO from 1.27 to 1.29 and SA from 1.34 to 1.36 and it's been fine ever since but still..


L0 Cache? The cache... So Vcore...


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> L0 Cache? The cache... So Vcore...


Yes, I know what your saying, however vCore does not fix it. I can go all the way from 1.34v to 1.45v and keep the same errors. Dropping cache clock doesn't fix it either. Only thing that fixes it is IO or SA voltage. Or dropping memory speed significantly. I know it's "wrong" but that's just what's happening. I didn't make the rules lol.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Yes, I know what your saying, however vCore does not fix it. I can go all the way from 1.34v to 1.45v and keep the same errors. Dropping cache clock doesn't fix it either. Only thing that fixes it is IO or SA voltage. Or dropping memory speed significantly. I know it's "wrong" but that's just what's happening. I didn't make the rules lol.


VCCIO isn't ideal then, since it has a sweet spot effect. VCCSA can be easily rectified by simply raising it, so throw 1.35V at it and then focus on VCCIO alone. Pull back down VCCSA afterwards.


----------



## KedarWolf

Deleted.


----------



## The Pook

KedarWolf said:


> See this post for my BIOS settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI MEG X570S Unify-X MAX [OC & Discussion]
> 
> 
> Hello nighthog I need some help in my build please I saw your work with the unify x max and i want to learn from your experience Am not an overclocker I just have a build in my mind and i want to know if its gonna work as my daily stable build I will use 5800x3d with kingston ddr4 5333mhz...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I get really great results with them.


are you lost

_Intel_ DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


----------



## KedarWolf

Deleted, meant another thread.


----------



## pipes

I can't find the guide on GitHub for overclocking the ram anymore. if anyone understood which i mean can please link?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## GeneO

pipes said:


> I can't find the guide on GitHub for overclocking the ram anymore. if anyone understood which i mean can please link?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk











MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## TheHunter

Hi,

so I finally got a new 2x16gb ram and its a 4400 cl17-18-18-38 g.skill royal silver ,








F4-4400C17D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal DDR4-4400 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




www.gskill.com





but i cant seem to boot on my 11700kf, 4266 cl16-16-16-36 boots np SA 1.15v and IO2 1.25v, is that my limit? or what could be the problem.

I never adjusted that dram vtt? or know how to, I tried early command and late command training but no luck.


I could do 3600 cl14-14-14-32 at 1.5v, but lowered it to cl14-15-15-34 1.45v atm, just to see how this goes. For this I need both SA and IO2 at 1.30v, with old 2x8Gb it could do 1.26v SA and 1.20v IO2, so this means more stress to imc I presume.

I also wanted to try 3733mhz which seems to be the limit for gear1 but couldnt boot at all anymore, 2x8GB needed 1.375v SA, IO2 around the same 1.22v or so..

Any suggestions or I would need waay more voltage by SA and IO2 for example gear1 3733? Also that 4400 no boot issue?


----------



## Taraquin

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> so I finally got a new 2x16gb ram and its a 4400 cl17-18-18-38 g.skill royal silver ,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4400C17D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z Royal DDR4-4400 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but i cant seem to boot on my 11700kf, 4266 cl16-16-16-36 boots np SA 1.15v and IO2 1.25v, is that my limit? or what could be the problem.
> 
> I never adjusted that dram vtt? or know how to, I tried early command and late command training but no luck.
> 
> 
> I could do 3600 cl14-14-14-32 at 1.5v, but lowered it to cl14-15-15-34 1.45v atm, just to see how this goes. For this I need both SA and IO2 at 1.30v, with old 2x8Gb it could do 1.26v SA and 1.20v IO2, so this means more stress to imc I presume.
> 
> I also wanted to try 3733mhz which seems to be the limit for gear1 but couldnt boot at all anymore, 2x8GB needed 1.375v SA, IO2 around the same 1.22v or so..
> 
> Any suggestions or I would need waay more voltage by SA and IO2 for example gear1 3733? Also that 4400 no boot issue?


Tried 3700? 100MHz multiplier? Seems G1 limit is 3600-3866 on almost all Rocket lake. I wouldn't bother with G2, latency is terrible.


----------



## TheHunter

Taraquin said:


> Tried 3700? 100MHz multiplier? Seems G1 limit is 3600-3866 on almost all Rocket lake. I wouldn't bother with G2, latency is terrible.


I know 4400 gear2 is slower, but would really like to have that working too.

I tried 3700 but didnt boot code 55, was more focused on 3600 because it didnt want to boot either at first when i set my old SA and IO2 voltages


----------



## TheHunter

Btw
Is DR interleave enabled by default at auto? I see 2 values in memory subtimings for this (interleave and enhanced interleave) both at auto, should I enable them?


----------



## zaniop

Hi guys, 

I've tried a little overclock on my ram (F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR). It's 4x8gb because its my old kit... that i used on z390 aorus master (T topology) with my 9900K.

Here my settings:

12700K on Z690 Edge Wifi DDR4.

P-cores ratio : 50
E-cores ratio : 39
Cache ratio : 39
AVX on and no offset.
Gear 1
Vcore : 1.20V
SA voltage : 1.25V
VDDQ : auto (1.35V)
DRAM voltage : 1.50V

What do you think guys? Cant boot at 4000 gear 1 (maybe 4 dimms... but with 2x16gb?)


----------



## bscool

zaniop said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've tried a little overclock on my ram (F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR). It's 4x8gb because its my old kit... that i used on z390 aorus master (T topology) with my 9900K.
> 
> Here my settings:
> 
> 12700K on Z690 Edge Wifi DDR4.
> 
> P-cores ratio : 50
> E-cores ratio : 39
> Cache ratio : 39
> AVX on and no offset.
> Gear 1
> Vcore : 1.20V
> SA voltage : 1.25V
> VDDQ : auto (1.35V)
> DRAM voltage : 1.50V
> 
> What do you think guys? Cant boot at 4000 gear 1 (maybe 4 dimms... but with 2x16gb?)
> 
> View attachment 2565495
> View attachment 2565496
> View attachment 2565497
> View attachment 2565498


To get an idea of how 2x16 would run try 2x8 in a2 and b2. If you cant boot 4133 to 4000 with 2x8, 2x16 probably wont work at those frequencies either. From what I have seen you can usually run 100 to 133mhz lower on 2x16 vs 2x8 b die on z690 ddr4.


----------



## zaniop

bscool said:


> To get an idea of how 2x16 would run try 2x8 in a2 and b2. If you cant boot 4133 to 4000 with 2x8, 2x16 probably wont work at those frequencies either. From what I have seen you can usually run 100 to 133mhz lower on 2x16 vs 2x8 b die on z690 ddr4.


Ok I'll try that! Thx dude

Dual rank is really hard to run at over 4000 then I guess? I know that the 12700K is a 12900K with a very bad bin, so maybe with a 12900K it would pass more easily

edit: ok... cant boot at 4000 gear 1 with 2 dimms (a2/b2), with 1.35 SA voltage cant too.. I have just a bad IMC


----------



## bscool

zaniop said:


> Ok I'll try that! Thx dude
> 
> Dual rank is really hard to run at over 4000 then I guess? I know that the 12700K is a 12900K with a very bad bin, so maybe with a 12900K it would pass more easily
> 
> edit: ok... cant boot at 4000 gear 1 with 2 dimms (a2/b2), with 1.35 SA voltage cant too.. I have just a bad IMC


Probably IMC unless there is a better bios, like on Strix d4 901 is one of the better ones for me. 

@Ichirou has the z690 Edge so he would know which bios is good for b die with 2x8 or 4x8.


----------



## Imprezzion

Is latency really that bad on Z690 DDR4? Man, even my old 11900K gets lower latency with gear 2.. and my 10900K @ 4266C15 gets like 35.x ns..

And is RTL/IO adjustable on Z690 at all? The values ATC show are atrociously high.


----------



## bscool

Imprezzion said:


> Is latency really that bad on Z690 DDR4? Man, even my old 11900K gets lower latency with gear 2.. and my 10900K @ 4266C15 gets like 35.x ns..
> 
> And is RTL/IO adjustable on Z690 at all? The values ATC show are atrociously high.


Tuned z690 will be in the 42ns(ddr4) to 47ns(ddr5). Also depends on cache clocks. RTLs are similar to z590 for how they work on z690.

z490,590 might have lower latency but will still be behind in most benchmarks.


----------



## Imprezzion

bscool said:


> Tuned z690 will be in the 42ns(ddr4) to 47ns(ddr5). Also depends on cache clocks. RTLs are similar to z590 for how they work on z690.
> 
> z490,590 might have lower latency but will still be behind in most benchmarks.


Alright good to know. I mean, if I ever come across a cheap used 12900K + Z690 DDR4 board actually capable of running the 12900K overclocked locally I would buy it. I already bought a 1700 mount for my EK Velocity just in case so I have everything I need for it. Just don't plan on paying full price and I wanna keep my B-Die.

It was kinda shocking to see how my (pre-binned golden sample) 10900K @ 5.3 all core 5.0 cache and 4266C15 RAM completely smashes my bad 11900K at 5.1 all core 4.4 cache 3866C14 gear 1 in just about every benchmark and game I could bench. For example in The Division 2 the difference was massive. 176 vs 198FPS.. 

I can push this 10900K to 5.4 all core 5.1 cache stable but it needs a lot of voltage to run it. I can cool it direct die, but degradation is a thing and 5.3/5.0 runs at around 1.360v (die sense) where I need around 1.448v for 5.4/5.1 which is getting up there.

Unfortunately my IMC is pretty bad. 4266 is about the highest it'll run with acceptable IO/SA. I did get it to do 4533 17-18-18 but it needed 1.36v IO and 1.45v SA for that.. those aren't healthy 24/7 voltages afaik.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Alright good to know. I mean, if I ever come across a cheap used 12900K + Z690 DDR4 board actually capable of running the 12900K overclocked locally I would buy it. I already bought a 1700 mount for my EK Velocity just in case so I have everything I need for it. Just don't plan on paying full price and I wanna keep my B-Die.
> 
> It was kinda shocking to see how my (pre-binned golden sample) 10900K @ 5.3 all core 5.0 cache and 4266C15 RAM completely smashes my bad 11900K at 5.1 all core 4.4 cache 3866C14 gear 1 in just about every benchmark and game I could bench. For example in The Division 2 the difference was massive. 176 vs 198FPS..
> 
> I can push this 10900K to 5.4 all core 5.1 cache stable but it needs a lot of voltage to run it. I can cool it direct die, but degradation is a thing and 5.3/5.0 runs at around 1.360v (die sense) where I need around 1.448v for 5.4/5.1 which is getting up there.
> 
> Unfortunately my IMC is pretty bad. 4266 is about the highest it'll run with acceptable IO/SA. I did get it to do 4533 17-18-18 but it needed 1.36v IO and 1.45v SA for that.. those aren't healthy 24/7 voltages afaik.


i think intel 10gen cpus are really underrated. One reason it is because the brainless pp marketing (like we care the chip is 7 o 14nm while we gaming). Another reason is because they require a lot of tuning, especially on the ram where the bonus performances are hidden.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## zebra_hun

Imprezzion said:


> Alright good to know. I mean, if I ever come across a cheap used 12900K + Z690 DDR4 board actually capable of running the 12900K overclocked locally I would buy it. I already bought a 1700 mount for my EK Velocity just in case so I have everything I need for it. Just don't plan on paying full price and I wanna keep my B-Die.
> 
> It was kinda shocking to see how my (pre-binned golden sample) 10900K @ 5.3 all core 5.0 cache and 4266C15 RAM completely smashes my bad 11900K at 5.1 all core 4.4 cache 3866C14 gear 1 in just about every benchmark and game I could bench. For example in The Division 2 the difference was massive. 176 vs 198FPS..
> 
> I can push this 10900K to 5.4 all core 5.1 cache stable but it needs a lot of voltage to run it. I can cool it direct die, but degradation is a thing and 5.3/5.0 runs at around 1.360v (die sense) where I need around 1.448v for 5.4/5.1 which is getting up there.
> 
> Unfortunately my IMC is pretty bad. 4266 is about the highest it'll run with acceptable IO/SA. I did get it to do 4533 17-18-18 but it needed 1.36v IO and 1.45v SA for that.. those aren't healthy 24/7 voltages afaik.


Your 10900k is still fast for modern gaming, and u set a very good oc. For 2 and 4k gaming is bottleneck the gpus. I change for Meteor Lake.
A good 10th gen is still perfect today.
If someone play 720 lowest..., yes, have to buy 12900k, normal gamer in 2k or above, not need it.


----------



## zaniop

I don't see IOL in my bios, just RTL. When I change these values, it does not work...

Latency Timing Setting Mode : 3 choices (Auto, Fixed, Dynamic)

And yep latency is better on older platform... Because E-cores. It seems that by disabling the E cores, we can mount the cache and therefore have a lower latency


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Alright good to know. I mean, if I ever come across a cheap used 12900K + Z690 DDR4 board actually capable of running the 12900K overclocked locally I would buy it. I already bought a 1700 mount for my EK Velocity just in case so I have everything I need for it. Just don't plan on paying full price and I wanna keep my B-Die.
> 
> It was kinda shocking to see how my (pre-binned golden sample) 10900K @ 5.3 all core 5.0 cache and 4266C15 RAM completely smashes my bad 11900K at 5.1 all core 4.4 cache 3866C14 gear 1 in just about every benchmark and game I could bench. For example in The Division 2 the difference was massive. 176 vs 198FPS..
> 
> I can push this 10900K to 5.4 all core 5.1 cache stable but it needs a lot of voltage to run it. I can cool it direct die, but degradation is a thing and 5.3/5.0 runs at around 1.360v (die sense) where I need around 1.448v for 5.4/5.1 which is getting up there.
> 
> Unfortunately my IMC is pretty bad. 4266 is about the highest it'll run with acceptable IO/SA. I did get it to do 4533 17-18-18 but it needed 1.36v IO and 1.45v SA for that.. those aren't healthy 24/7 voltages afaik.


You probably won't need to wait long, as second-hand markets already have people selling binned golden chips for less than MSRP.


----------



## bscool

zaniop said:


> I don't see IOL in my bios, just RTL. When I change these values, it does not work...
> 
> Latency Timing Setting Mode : 3 choices (Auto, Fixed, Dynamic)
> 
> And yep latency is better on older platform... Because E-cores. It seems that by disabling the E cores, we can mount the cache and therefore have a lower latency
> 
> 
> View attachment 2565576


Dynamic will tighten rtls on MSI as far as I know from using them on z590 with RKL. Also Round Trip Latency under advanced options I think it is but that might get auto to on when Dynamic is set.


----------



## zaniop

bscool said:


> Dynamic will tighten rtls on MSI as far as I know from using them on z590 with RKL. Also Round Trip Latency under advanced options I think it is but that might get auto to on when Dynamic is set.


Thanks! It works 

Before







After









51.8ms on aida


----------



## TheHunter

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> so I finally got a new 2x16gb ram and its a 4400 cl17-18-18-38 g.skill royal silver ,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4400C17D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z Royal DDR4-4400 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but i cant seem to boot on my 11700kf, 4266 cl16-16-16-36 boots np SA 1.15v and IO2 1.25v, is that my limit? or what could be the problem.
> 
> I never adjusted that dram vtt? or know how to, I tried early command and late command training but no luck.
> 
> 
> I could do 3600 cl14-14-14-32 at 1.5v, but lowered it to cl14-15-15-34 1.45v atm, just to see how this goes. For this I need both SA and IO2 at 1.30v, with old 2x8Gb it could do 1.26v SA and 1.20v IO2, so this means more stress to imc I presume.
> 
> I also wanted to try 3733mhz which seems to be the limit for gear1 but couldnt boot at all anymore, 2x8GB needed 1.375v SA, IO2 around the same 1.22v or so..
> 
> Any suggestions or I would need waay more voltage by SA and IO2 for example gear1 3733? Also that 4400 no boot issue?


To quote myself

I asked Msi support whats going on and their response, clean golden pins and try again..


Also its not on QVL list, noice.. I then said guess I have no other choice to get ASUS ROG Hero XIII then, this one is on the list and only few Asus z590 are..


----------



## nikolaus85

TheHunter said:


> To quote myself
> 
> I asked Msi support whats going on and their response, clean golden pins and try again..
> 
> 
> Also its not on QVL list, noice.. I then said guess I have no other choice to get ASUS ROG Hero XIII then, this one is on the list and only few Asus z590 are..


the problem is the cpu imc, not the board or the qvl list. I have a z490 unify with 10700k and same rams as you running at 4400 c16 17 17 36 no issues. Try setting vtt starting from 0.48 x ram voltage.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Many components many results

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## zaniop

I tested, full auto... just use "memory try it" to boot in 4000Mhz gear 1... It boots without problem.

But the SA voltage is 1.45V.. I could never boot at 4000Mhz with 1.35V max SA voltage..

Unlucky


----------



## TheHunter

nikolaus85 said:


> the problem is the cpu imc, not the board or the qvl list. I have a z490 unify with 10700k and same rams as you running at 4400 c16 17 17 36 no issues. Try setting vtt starting from 0.48 x ram voltage.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Can you please post a screenshot of bios how to and where to set?


----------



## nikolaus85

TheHunter said:


> Can you please post a screenshot of bios how to and where to set?


im on holiday right now so i can't but please ask me what you need to know in pm i will be happy to help you

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

nikolaus85 said:


> im on holiday right now so i can't but please ask me what you need to know in pm i will be happy to help you
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Cool thanks,

I will send you bios screen and you can pinpoint me to it.


Speaking of this ram, does it get a bit hot for you too? Idk in games I saw it up to 52-57c, e.g. Destiny2 , this game uses lots of ram read- writes and is good stability test as well


----------



## nikolaus85

TheHunter said:


> Cool thanks,
> 
> I will send you bios screen and you can pinpoint me to it.
> 
> 
> Speaking of this ram, does it get a bit hot for you too? Idk in games I saw it up to 52-57c, e.g. Destiny2 , this game uses lots of ram read- writes and is good stability test as well


the pcb of those ram is so good that you don't need to worry about temps. When i stress tested mine, they went over 50 degrees with no errors.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> the pcb of those ram is so good that you don't need to worry about temps. When i stress tested mine, they went over 50 degrees with no errors.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Which board and CPU use?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> Which board and CPU use?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


z490 unify and i7 10700k

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

nikolaus85 said:


> the pcb of those ram is so good that you don't need to worry about temps. When i stress tested mine, they went over 50 degrees with no errors.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I will send you screens in a moment., 


btw, I saw you mentioned inconsistent 3dmark physics score, you might be affected from defender overhead bug.. Im also, and this handy little tool fixes it, it fixes cpuz and cinebecnh score consistency as well..









Windows Defender can Significantly Impact Intel CPU Performance, We have the Fix


This has been great to prove the issue exists for Windows Defender, please can someone confirm this same bug exists for Teams because... Damn! That program is slow as hell! Especially when in a video meeting lol.




www.techpowerup.com


----------



## nikolaus85

TheHunter said:


> I will send you screens in a moment.,
> 
> 
> btw, I saw you mentioned inconsistent 3dmark physics score, you might be affected from defender overhead bug.. Im also, and this handy little tool fixes it, it fixes cpuz and cinebecnh score consistency as well..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windows Defender can Significantly Impact Intel CPU Performance, We have the Fix
> 
> 
> This has been great to prove the issue exists for Windows Defender, please can someone confirm this same bug exists for Teams because... Damn! That program is slow as hell! Especially when in a video meeting lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techpowerup.com


i will try that for sure, hoping will solve that annoying bug.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Anyone got any tips for getting tRDWR's lower? 
I run this now (for voltages see HWiNFO) and while this is stable I cannot lower tRDWR to even 14's as that will error like mad in TM5. Raising DRAM voltage did literally nothing up to 1.65v. 
On 4266 the lowest I can run is 14's, on 3866 the lowest I can run is 11's. I see many people running 10's as high as 4400-4533 but I can't get anywhere near that. What is the secret here.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Anyone got any tips for getting tRDWR's lower?
> I run this now (for voltages see HWiNFO) and while this is stable I cannot lower tRDWR to even 14's as that will error like mad in TM5. Raising DRAM voltage did literally nothing up to 1.65v.
> On 4266 the lowest I can run is 14's, on 3866 the lowest I can run is 11's. I see many people running 10's as high as 4400-4533 but I can't get anywhere near that. What is the secret here.
> 
> View attachment 2565832


try tcke 2, then lower trdwr

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Imprezzion said:


> Anyone got any tips for getting tRDWR's lower?
> I run this now (for voltages see HWiNFO) and while this is stable I cannot lower tRDWR to even 14's as that will error like mad in TM5. Raising DRAM voltage did literally nothing up to 1.65v.
> On 4266 the lowest I can run is 14's, on 3866 the lowest I can run is 11's. I see many people running 10's as high as 4400-4533 but I can't get anywhere near that. What is the secret here.
> 
> View attachment 2565832


Which CPU use?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> Which CPU use?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


10900K Avengers pre binned, Maximus XIII Hero Z590 board. Latest BIOS. On my 11900K I could get 11's to work on 4266C16 on this exact board and BIOS but if I copy that exact memory profile with all the timings over to this CPU it will error within 1 minute. Even with different RTL/IO and way more or less IO/SA. There has to be something different between 10th and 11th gen (on gear 2) that makes 10th gen not wanna run the same exact timings that is 5 hours stable on 11th gen.

I have also been playing around with the ODT's all night yesterday and the best I've gotten it to do was about 22 minutes with no errors but it still will not stabilize at all. At 80-48-0 which is exactly what I ran on the 11900K it won't even pass 2 minutes. On 120-60-40 it's better but..still not there. On 80-40-40 it was by far the best at 22 minutes but still not actually stable.

It will pass 4266 15-17-17-28-280 just fine even on auto ODT and RTL IO but I have to leave tRDWR's at 14 or 15.


----------



## pipes

My answer is for a problem or I think is a problem, new CPU: i9-11900kf on a MSI z490 unify don't like oc on ram, very strong a 10700kf. I try to overclock ring and it doesn't want much voltage, 43x with automatic voltage that does not exceed 0.990 mv. same with core clock then it want more of 1.29 / .30 volt with 52x

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> 10900K Avengers pre binned, Maximus XIII Hero Z590 board. Latest BIOS. On my 11900K I could get 11's to work on 4266C16 on this exact board and BIOS but if I copy that exact memory profile with all the timings over to this CPU it will error within 1 minute. Even with different RTL/IO and way more or less IO/SA. There has to be something different between 10th and 11th gen (on gear 2) that makes 10th gen not wanna run the same exact timings that is 5 hours stable on 11th gen.
> 
> I have also been playing around with the ODT's all night yesterday and the best I've gotten it to do was about 22 minutes with no errors but it still will not stabilize at all. At 80-48-0 which is exactly what I ran on the 11900K it won't even pass 2 minutes. On 120-60-40 it's better but..still not there. On 80-40-40 it was by far the best at 22 minutes but still not actually stable.
> 
> It will pass 4266 15-17-17-28-280 just fine even on auto ODT and RTL IO but I have to leave tRDWR's at 14 or 15.


If _everything_ is _exactly_ the same _except_ for the CPU, then it is a CPU IMC weakness issue. Something you can't exactly fix.
You can try fiddling around with RTT, ODT, slopes, but that's probably a ton of effort than you wouldn't want to bother putting in.


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> If _everything_ is _exactly_ the same _except_ for the CPU, then it is a CPU IMC weakness issue. Something you can't exactly fix.
> You can try fiddling around with RTT, ODT, slopes, but that's probably a ton of effort than you wouldn't want to bother putting in.


Yeah the only thing I did was swap the CPU from my bad 11900K to this golden 10900K. Same BIOS, same board, same everything. I just simply loaded the BIOS profile I had saved with that RAM OC and adjusted the CPU settings to reflect the 10900K and it doesn't work at all.

After that I went for a full BIOS flash and clr cmos and manually redid all the timings and settings, still no go. It works totally fine with 14's as tRDWR's on 4200/4266 or 15's at 4400. Just not lower.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah the only thing I did was swap the CPU from my bad 11900K to this golden 10900K. Same BIOS, same board, same everything. I just simply loaded the BIOS profile I had saved with that RAM OC and adjusted the CPU settings to reflect the 10900K and it doesn't work at all.
> 
> After that I went for a full BIOS flash and clr cmos and manually redid all the timings and settings, still no go. It works totally fine with 14's as tRDWR's on 4200/4266 or 15's at 4400. Just not lower.


Core quality is not always linked to IMC quality. It doesn't scale linearly. You might find a godly IMC on some garbage low bin chip.


----------



## Nizzen

nikolaus85 said:


> the pcb of those ram is so good that you don't need to worry about temps. When i stress tested mine, they went over 50 degrees with no errors.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Well... many do fail with very tight timings and 4400mhz+ from 45-50c, so it depends 

The tempsensor may not also show max temperature on all ic's.


----------



## sdmf74

Guys help me decide, people keep saying gear 1 is best for gaming which is mostly what I do, benching, overclocking, gaming etc. but ...

I'm itching to upgrade my 4x8gb trident z 3600mhz 16 16 16 36 kit (it's about 4 years old) to something faster for my 11900k cpu. I'm not sure a 2x16gb kit of 4000mhz dominators would overclock far enough to make gear 2 worthwhile although a corsair rep told me when I asked him why they never released their doms in kits over 4000mhz like they promised he said to get the 4000mhz kit and overclock it to 4800mhz.
Can anyone confirm that doms can actually OC that well? I know cpu imc & motherboard are factors (have a z590 hero btw).

Dominators aren't mandatory though I would buy another kit of trident Z rgb's or something else but not sure what speed kit would justify something better than my c16 3600 kit. I really want to get away from my 4x8gb kit and get a fast 2x16gb kit. Would I be wasting my money upgrading? I could always sell my current kit.

What ram speed would justify my upgrade? Need advice or suggestions. Experts? Anyone?


----------



## Ichirou

sdmf74 said:


> Guys help me decide, people keep saying gear 1 is best for gaming which is mostly what I do, benching, overclocking, gaming etc. but ...
> 
> I'm itching to upgrade my 4x8gb trident z 3600mhz 16 16 16 36 kit (it's about 4 years old) to something faster for my 11900k cpu. I'm not sure a 2x16gb kit of 4000mhz dominators would overclock far enough to make gear 2 worthwhile although a corsair rep told me when I asked him why they never released their doms in kits over 4000mhz like they promised he said to get the 4000mhz kit and overclock it to 4800mhz.
> Can anyone confirm that doms can actually OC that well? I know cpu imc & motherboard are factors (have a z590 hero btw).
> 
> Dominators aren't mandatory though I would buy another kit of trident Z rgb's or something else but not sure what speed kit would justify something better than my c16 3600 kit. I really want to get away from my 4x8gb kit and get a fast 2x16gb kit. Would I be wasting my money upgrading? I could always sell my current kit.
> 
> What ram speed would justify my upgrade? Need advice or suggestions. Experts? Anyone?


The latency hit going Gear 2 on Z590 is much less significant than it is on Z690, so it's not a big deal.
If you want high frequency, you can get that with Micron B/E-die, Hynix DJR, and Samsung B-die as well, but cost factors in.

Micron B-die will scale up to 5,000 MHz just fine, so long as the primaries are loosened and there is enough VDIMM.
Same goes for Hynix DJR, and Samsung B-die (with some difficulty).

The issue is, 3,600 flat-16 is already a very good kit. You could go to 4,000+ MHz, but the performance gain is pretty minor.
If that kit uses Samsung B-die Single Rank, why don't you simply overclock them to 4,000+? It's practically only a matter of VDIMM at that point, and IMC voltage.
4,000 14-15-15-XX should be easy under 1.60V VDIMM. 1.65V at the very worst (assuming they are terrible bins).


----------



## sdmf74

Yeah they are bdie but they can't even do 3733mhz stable with the new bios in gear 1 although my cpu is OCd pretty high 55x1 54x2 53x4 52x8 & can only get 44x cache (when highest core is 54x the cache can do max 45x). I have always assumed it can't do 3733 cause it's a 4 dimm kit? Hence the reason for wanting a 2x16gb kit instead.

I have not really tried to see what it can do in gear 2 though, I guess I should check it out but I'm guessing I will achieve the same not so spectacular results IDK.

I have just been running my ram at 3600 15-16-16-35 288. Primary timings can't do any better than that. It's fully stable with the above CPU OC.

I was considering going for a 4600mhz ish+ Bdie 2x16gb kit?
Would that potentially outperform my current settings? I've never oc'd anything other than bdie ram before


----------



## Ichirou

sdmf74 said:


> Yeah they are bdie but they can't even do 3733mhz stable with the new bios in gear 1 although my cpu is OCd pretty high 55x1 54x2 53x4 52x8 & can only get 44x cache (when highest core is 54x the cache can do max 45x). I have always assumed it can't do 3733 cause it's a 4 dimm kit? Hence the reason for wanting a 2x16gb kit instead.
> 
> I have not really tried to see what it can do in gear 2 though, I guess I should check it out but I'm guessing I will achieve the same not so spectacular results IDK.
> 
> I have just been running my ram at 3600 15-16-16-35 288. Primary timings can't do any better than that. It's fully stable with the above CPU OC.
> 
> I was considering going for a 4600mhz ish+ Bdie 2x16gb kit?
> Would that potentially outperform my current settings? I've never oc'd anything other than bdie ram before


Not necessarily; Z590 largely caps off at 3,800 MHz on Gear 1 due to IMC limits. 4,000+ on Gear 1 requires a golden IMC, and IMC quality is _not_ linked to the cores.
Two sticks will be better than four since Z590 is largely daisy chain, but you're still not going to get very far anyway on Gear 1 anyway.

You're better off trying to push high overclocks on Gear 2 instead.
Look up past examples of people running Samsung B-die at 4,500+ MHz on Z590 Gear 2, and you'll see their performance results. Decide if it's worth it in your book.


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> Not necessarily; Z590 largely caps off at 3,800 MHz on Gear 1 due to IMC limits. 4,000+ on Gear 1 requires a golden IMC, and IMC quality is _not_ linked to the cores.
> Two sticks will be better than four since Z590 is largely daisy chain, but you're still not going to get very far anyway on Gear 1 anyway.
> 
> You're better off trying to push high overclocks on Gear 2 instead.
> Look up past examples of people running Samsung B-die at 4,500+ MHz on Z590 Gear 2, and you'll see their performance results. Decide if it's worth it in your book.


2x16GB DR B-Die's at 4533 17-18-18-39-370-2T Gear 2 has similar latency to 3800 14-15-15-28-270-2T Gear 1. But it has way more bandwidth. Does it give more FPS? No. Does it make CPU clocks and cache clocks more difficult to get stable? Yes. Is it fun to play with? Sure.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> 2x16GB DR B-Die's at 4533 17-18-18-39-370-2T Gear 2 has similar latency to 3800 14-15-15-28-270-2T Gear 1. But it has way more bandwidth. Does it give more FPS? No. Does it make CPU clocks and cache clocks more difficult to get stable? Yes. Is it fun to play with? Sure.


whit my mem on 4000MHZ sa volt 1,2v/4200MHZ 1,25v/ 4300MHZ 1.3 an 4400MHZ it is 1.4v on sa 
I do not have to play with cl 15 so my mem goes down, but cl 14 at 4000 MHZ and at 4400MHZ it is cl 17-18-17-38, but sa volt I just can not get further down, at 4400MHZ it is just enough a bad cpu
also try my boy's ballistix-ddr4-32gb-kit-4400mhz-cl19 B-die ,also here a high sa volt is needed


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


> whit my mem on 4000MHZ sa volt 1,2v/4200MHZ 1,25v/ 4300MHZ 1.3 an 4400MHZ it is 1.4v on sa
> I do not have to play with cl 15 so my mem goes down, but cl 14 at 4000 MHZ and at 4400MHZ it is cl 17-18-17-38, but sa volt I just can not get further down, at 4400MHZ it is just enough a bad cpu
> also try my boy's ballistix-ddr4-32gb-kit-4400mhz-cl19 B-die ,also here a high sa volt is needed


ballistix are not b-die.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> ballistix are not b-die.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


>


as i told, these ram are not b-die since b-die are only from samsung. The useless video you linked confirms they are not b-die, if you see cpu-z screen the manuctorer is micron. Now stop trolling in this thread thanks.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> as i told, these ram are not b-die since b-die are only from samsung. The useless video you linked confirms they are not b-die, if you see cpu-z screen the manuctorer is micron. Now stop trolling in this thread thanks.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

Again, b-die is only from samsung. What is your problem? You payed half price and pretend ballistix to be samsung b-die? Anyway the screen you posted is about some vengeance and with 18-22-22 primary timings they could never be b-die. 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> Again, b-die is only from samsung. What is your problem? You payed half price and pretend ballistix to be samsung b-die? Anyway the screen you posted is about some vengeance and with 18-22-22 primary timings they could never be b-die.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


You say it is only samsung that makes b-die, just quickly found a photo that shows that it is not true, Micron also makes them in several of them, is used in several kits,try use Google


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


> You say it is only samsung that makes b-die, just quickly found a photo that shows that it is not true, Micron also makes them in several of them, is used in several kits,try use Google


you try using your brain. They are e-die, not b-die. Bye.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Micron B-Die (E-Die) is completely different and unrelated to Samsung B-Die. Not to say those are bad, Micron often reaches much higher raw frequencies, but as worse timings. But no, they are not what we call "B-Die" as that is purely a term used for the Samsung ones.


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> you try using your brain. They are e-die, not b-die. Bye.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


That may be true, but therefore one should not say that Micron does not make b-die, but here is a page that dedicates that it is B-die de 4400MHZ 2x16GB,there is again reason to get angry there are several companies that did the same thing, just not everyone is equally good at it, micron can withstand something more in load temp, may have had an advantage in some countries





Crucial Ballistix Max RGB 32GB DDR4 4400MHZ CL19 Dual-Channel Kit Review


The top-of-the-line Ballistix Max RGB 32GB DDR4 4400MHz Dual-Channel Kit by Crucial clearly hits the sweet spot between performance, looks and cost.




www.nikktech.com


----------



## pipes

It can help to understand then micron has 3 revision die b e and f
View attachment 16gb_ddr4_sdram.pdf


Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

It's all lotto land, there are no 2 identical cpu / motherboards / mem / gpuer that overclock the same, there will always be a small difference,we can only use it as a guide line, and hope for the best


----------



## pipes

with the 11900kf processor you can't keep any of the ram frequencies, I think I'll go back to the 10700kf because it seems like a waste of money to buy such a poor CPU and ram, Ram RipjawsV f4-4800c17d-gkv

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> with the 11900kf processor you can't keep any of the ram frequencies, I think I'll go back to the 10700kf because it seems like a waste of money to buy such a poor CPU and ram, Ram RipjawsV f4-4800c17d-gkv
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


bandwidth is high at 10700k, it is smaller with 10600k, can see that 12X00 should have had much less SA volt than one should with 10 / 11X00

so you need to change, then take a 12X00? far better cpu / bandwidth


----------



## pipes

No, I'll back at 10700kf that I already had

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## spin5000

What's better 4000 CL14 or 4266 CL16? I thought you need an increase of 200-266 MHz for every CL increase yet I'm surprisingly getting better scores on every single test - Aida64, OCCT, Geekbench 3, Passmark Performance Test, Linpack Xtreme, and Y-Cruncher - with 4266 16-16-16-36 over 4000 14-15-14-34. If I remember correctly, I think even 4200 MHz 16-16-16-36 performed better, let alone 4266.

I thought for sure that 4200 & 4266 would have to be CL15, not CL16, to be equal to or superior to 4000 CL14 especially with tests that scale well with timings like Linpack Xtreme and Y-Cruncher. Even the RAM calculator says 4000 CL14 is better than 4200 and 4266 CL16 (I know the RAM calculator is far from the final word). Is this surprising to any one else?

P.S. Both RAM setups are 2T and, of course, gear 1. CPU is 12900KS.


----------



## Scorpion667

Managed to bump up my 4400c16 CR1 OC to 4500. Had to redo RTLs/IOLs with round trip latency enabled and mrc fast boot disabled, bumped VREF from 0.525 to 0.54 and raised TWR from 11 to 14. Will do Karthu overnight and later this week will try with the 9900KS at 5.2

Older setup 9900KS/z390 and single rank b-die A2 PCB 2x8GB (F4-4000C15-8GVK) but open to any suggestions.

RTL 59/60 and IOL 7/7 also works fine


----------



## GeneO

Got a better quality (IMC too I think) 10900K (SP81 vs. SP63). Can do 5.2 GHz and uncore 4.7 24x7 now without deliding. Haven't tried yet, but I am going to see if I can push this 2x16 GB g.skill 3200 CL14 frequency higher while keeping the same timings and VDIMM under 1.5v if possible. Currently it is at the 4100 16-16-34 I had on the old 10900K, at 4.7 instead of 4.6 uncore and stable with 8 passes TM5 absolute and 12,000% Karhu.


----------



## bscool

spin5000 said:


> What's better 4000 CL14 or 4266 CL16? I thought you need an increase of 200-266 MHz for every CL increase yet I'm surprisingly getting better scores on every single test - Aida64, OCCT, Geekbench 3, Passmark Performance Test, Linpack Xtreme, and Y-Cruncher - with 4266 16-16-16-36 over 4000 14-15-14-34. If I remember correctly, I think even 4200 MHz 16-16-16-36 performed better, let alone 4266.
> 
> I thought for sure that 4200 & 4266 would have to be CL15, not CL16, to be equal to or superior to 4000 CL14 especially with tests that scale well with timings like Linpack Xtreme and Y-Cruncher. Even the RAM calculator says 4000 CL14 is better than 4200 and 4266 CL16 (I know the RAM calculator is far from the final word). Is this surprising to any one else?
> 
> P.S. Both RAM setups are 2T and, of course, gear 1. CPU is 12900KS.


It depends what your are benching/testing if it benefits from bandwith or latency etc. The highest clocks with the tighest subtiming will give the best performance.

If you are leaving subtimings on auto kind of a waste of timing in testing in my opinion. Need to set everything manually as on auto sometimes the MB will set very strange subtimings.

Your subtimings are not going to change that much from say 3866c14 to 4133c16 on z690 gear 1. But the increase frequency with tight subs will winout in most benches.


----------



## Martin v r

Scorpion667 said:


> Managed to bump up my 4400c16 CR1 OC to 4500. Had to redo RTLs/IOLs with round trip latency enabled and mrc fast boot disabled, bumped VREF from 0.525 to 0.54 and raised TWR from 11 to 14. Will do Karthu overnight and later this week will try with the 9900KS at 5.2
> 
> Older setup 9900KS/z390 and single rank b-die A2 PCB 2x8GB (F4-4000C15-8GVK) but open to any suggestions.
> 
> RTL 59/60 and IOL 7/7 also works fine
> View attachment 2566436
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566437


can see on my son / my pc that the SA/IO volt has a lot to say at 4400MHZ he has a 9600k and I have a 10600k


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> Got a better quality (IMC too I think) 10900K (SP81 vs. SP63). Can do 5.2 GHz and uncore 4.7 24x7 now without deliding. Haven't tried yet, but I am going to see if I can push this 2x16 GB g.skill 3200 CL14 frequency higher while keeping the same timings and VDIMM under 1.5v if possible. Currently it is at the 4100 16-16-34 I had on the old 10900K, at 4.7 instead of 4.6 uncore and stable with 8 passes TM5 absolute and 12,000% Karhu.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566444
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566445


Looks great. What kinda die sense vcore for 5.2/4.7? My SP86 does 5.2/4.8 at around 1.334v (AVX enabled stress tests) and 5.3/5.0 AVX around 1.396v but it is delidded so I can cool it.


----------



## Netarangi

Scorpion667 said:


> Managed to bump up my 4400c16 CR1 OC to 4500. Had to redo RTLs/IOLs with round trip latency enabled and mrc fast boot disabled, bumped VREF from 0.525 to 0.54 and raised TWR from 11 to 14. Will do Karthu overnight and later this week will try with the 9900KS at 5.2
> 
> Older setup 9900KS/z390 and single rank b-die A2 PCB 2x8GB (F4-4000C15-8GVK) but open to any suggestions.
> 
> RTL 59/60 and IOL 7/7 also works fine
> View attachment 2566436
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566437


Any tips on how I can get my b die stable at 4200 or more? I can't seem to get it stable at cr1 gear 1 above 4000.

I tend to do the following when beginning oc..

Primaries set 16-18-18-36 with the rest on auto.

Cr 1 and gm 1

Vcssa 1.35 (should I leave this auto and raise it each time I increase frequency?)

Start with Dram voltage 1.45 and raise it until it boots.

Test and if its stable I'll move towards secondaries and Tertiary timings. Raise voltage if not stable.

I get pretty lost when it comes to dram and vcssa voltages. Not sure what vddq does either

12700kf
Asus tuf gaming z690 plus d4
Corsair vengeance lpx cl16 4000


----------



## GeneO

Imprezzion said:


> Looks great. What kinda die sense vcore for 5.2/4.7? My SP86 does 5.2/4.8 at around 1.334v (AVX enabled stress tests) and 5.3/5.0 AVX around 1.396v but it is delidded so I can cool it.


5.2/4.7, 1.28v in Realbench 2.56 and OCCT AVX medium data set. I can't run prime95 sets like 112/112 AVX in-place, as it gets too hot. I will need to delid to do that or anything above. I want to avoid that if I can as it will too soon need a reapplication of liquid metal while the Intel solder will last quite a long time. Just watch though, I will sooner than later. LOL.

The 4100 MHz 16-16-34 with the tight timings is at 1.48v RAM, 1.2v VCCSA, 1.18v VCCIO. Working on 4200. Still haven't tried 4.8GHzz uncore yet.


----------



## GeneO

Imprezzion said:


> Looks great. What kinda die sense vcore for 5.2/4.7? My SP86 does 5.2/4.8 at around 1.334v (AVX enabled stress tests) and 5.3/5.0 AVX around 1.396v but it is delidded so I can cool it.


How does it stack up against your 11th gen?


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> How does it stack up against your 11th gen?


It outperforms it in every game / bench I ever ran except Far Cry 6 where the 11900K won slightly somehow. Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Division 2, Watch Dogs Legion, Borderlands 3 and GTA V all score higher with the 10900K in average and 1% lows especially with much faster RAM and no gears to worry about. Obviously Cinebench R23, CPU -Z and 3DMark is an easy win in multithreaded for the 10900K and single thread is just a slight slight win for the 11900K at 5.2. 11th gen has no right to even exist tbh.

RAM on 11900K: 3800 14-15-15-28-260-2T Gear 1.
RAM on 10900K: 4266 15-17-17-28-280-2T.

I am still planning on testing something like 4533 17-18-18-39-370-2T but it's going to be like 37c here so probably not a good idea now lol. My A/C struggles enough as it is I don't wanna have a memtest pumping loads of extra heat into my office now.


----------



## Ichirou

Netarangi said:


> Any tips on how I can get my b die stable at 4200 or more? I can't seem to get it stable at cr1 gear 1 above 4000.
> 
> I tend to do the following when beginning oc..
> 
> Primaries set 16-18-18-36 with the rest on auto.
> 
> Cr 1 and gm 1
> 
> Vcssa 1.35 (should I leave this auto and raise it each time I increase frequency?)
> 
> Start with Dram voltage 1.45 and raise it until it boots.
> 
> Test and if its stable I'll move towards secondaries and Tertiary timings. Raise voltage if not stable.
> 
> I get pretty lost when it comes to dram and vcssa voltages. Not sure what vddq does either
> 
> 12700kf
> Asus tuf gaming z690 plus d4
> Corsair vengeance lpx cl16 4000


In Gear 1? Strictly IMC quality. Gotta bin CPUs. And primarily 12900s.
You can attempt to test up to 1.40-1.45V VCCSA just to see if the chip can even boot, but otherwise, I wouldn't bother if you can't even boot it.

CR2 and looser tCL will put less stress on the IMC, but there's just a pretty hard wall at the 4,100 MHz area for CPUs to boot. Especially if it's not a 12900.
VDIMM is not going to help unless it's necessary for the RAM itself. But the issue here is the IMC.

You should be content that you can even stabilize 4,000 MHz; that's already considered golden for a 12700.

VDDQ is like VCCSA in that you need enough to stabilize the RAM. Most of the time Auto is good enough, but in more extreme cases you might need to throw more at it.
There's no unsafe limit for VDDQ as the FIVR rail would trip long before you can cause any damage.


----------



## Imprezzion

New setup:










It finally seems happy with tRDWR dropped below 14. I had to enable Turn Around Timing training (even tho values are manual) and raise tWR and tWRRD / tWTR quite a bit. I will keep testing lowering those but this is a very solid setup on very decent voltages meaning in this insane summer heat we are getting in 2 days it'll keep cool. I also dropped the CPU from 5.3/5.0 to 5.2/4.8 which needs a LOT less voltage and thus less heat. The AIDA results are actually quite good even with higher tWR and tWRRD.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> New setup:
> 
> View attachment 2566776
> 
> 
> It finally seems happy with tRDWR dropped below 14. I had to enable Turn Around Timing training (even tho values are manual) and raise tWR and tWRRD / tWTR quite a bit. I will keep testing lowering those but this is a very solid setup on very decent voltages meaning in this insane summer heat we are getting in 2 days it'll keep cool. I also dropped the CPU from 5.3/5.0 to 5.2/4.8 which needs a LOT less voltage and thus less heat. The AIDA results are actually quite good even with higher tWR and tWRRD.


nice timings. It is strange you have to enable turn around timings training but every motherboard has her rules. Do you keep ram interleaving and rank margin tool enabled?

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

This is my final on Gear2; 4300mhz
Sa 1.17v, Io2 1.30v, cpuv 1.330v, 101mhz blck

Could probably go a little higher, but then I would have to drop multi to stay around 5Ghz ~1.3v and keep temps in check


----------



## Imprezzion

Alrighty so with the current ambients being high 30's there's no way in hell I'll ever keep my current RAM OC stable temperature wise. My 4266C15 profile needs 1.61v and even with no side panel, the A/C on and a fan blowing on them they go over the 48c stability window. The 4400C17 setup I showed 1 page ago is way lower voltage, 1.51v, but it is also way way more temperature sensitive and crashes above 44c so that doesn't help either.

I am looking to build a summer proof RAM OC profile that is better then the 3600C16 XMP profile but can handle some heat and is low voltage. 1.40-1.42v ish.

I was thinking 4266 17-17-17-36-360-2T 1.42v with not too tight subtimings maybe? What other low voltage high heat resistant setup could I try? Maybe drop the frequency way down so I can reduce IO/SA a bunch as well to like, 3866 15's or 16's?


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Alrighty so with the current ambients being high 30's there's no way in hell I'll ever keep my current RAM OC stable temperature wise. My 4266C15 profile needs 1.61v and even with no side panel, the A/C on and a fan blowing on them they go over the 48c stability window. The 4400C17 setup I showed 1 page ago is way lower voltage, 1.51v, but it is also way way more temperature sensitive and crashes above 44c so that doesn't help either.
> 
> I am looking to build a summer proof RAM OC profile that is better then the 3600C16 XMP profile but can handle some heat and is low voltage. 1.40-1.42v ish.
> 
> I was thinking 4266 17-17-17-36-360-2T 1.42v with not too tight subtimings maybe? What other low voltage high heat resistant setup could I try? Maybe drop the frequency way down so I can reduce IO/SA a bunch as well to like, 3866 15's or 16's?


Eh, just loosen tRFC by a lot and tWR by a bit as well, and you should be good. tRCD by 1 if you really need to after that.
Tighten them again once you're out of summer.


----------



## GeneO

You should be outside enjoying nature in the summertime anyhow. LOL.


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> You should be outside enjoying nature in the summertime anyhow. LOL.


As a typical slightly overweight very white guy who instantly gets sunburn just thinking of sunshine and with 38c heat I prefer to not bake myself alive outside lol. 

I got it to run the 4400C17 profile stable yesterday evening late at least for the few rounds of World War Z I played with a few buddies by raising voltage to 1.53v from 1.51v to give it a but more resilience and raising the fan speed of my RAM fan to 1200RPM. They sat around 40-41c at 28c ambient. Might be enough and if it isn't I'll follow @Ichirou 's suggestions.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> As a typical slightly overweight very white guy who instantly gets sunburn just thinking of sunshine and with 38c heat I prefer to not bake myself alive outside lol.
> 
> I got it to run the 4400C17 profile stable yesterday evening late at least for the few rounds of World War Z I played with a few buddies by raising voltage to 1.53v from 1.51v to give it a but more resilience and raising the fan speed of my RAM fan to 1200RPM. They sat around 40-41c at 28c ambient. Might be enough and if it isn't I'll follow @Ichirou 's suggestions.


sa/IO volt up an set vmem dovn


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> sa/IO volt up an set vmem dovn


Did exactly that and it's been fine so far. Ambients went up to 33c yesterday in my room with outside temps of 39c. 

I ran 1.54v vDIMM, 1.4190v SA BIOS (1.376v actual), 1.30v IO. CPU still at the full 5.3 all core 5.0 cache @ 1.376v ish. DIMM temps settled in the 46-48c range, CPU stays in the high 70's, GPU low 50's. Was able to play World War Z and The Division 2 completely fine with no crashes. That is with no side panel and a portable A/C aimed at me and my PC. It isn't strong enough to really drop ambient temps in the room by much but it does provide a nice cool breeze.


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> Did exactly that and it's been fine so far. Ambients went up to 33c yesterday in my room with outside temps of 39c.
> 
> I ran 1.54v vDIMM, 1.4190v SA BIOS (1.376v actual), 1.30v IO. CPU still at the full 5.3 all core 5.0 cache @ 1.376v ish. DIMM temps settled in the 46-48c range, CPU stays in the high 70's, GPU low 50's. Was able to play World War Z and The Division 2 completely fine with no crashes. That is with no side panel and a portable A/C aimed at me and my PC. It isn't strong enough to really drop ambient temps in the room by much but it does provide a nice cool breeze.


So was the issue too low IMC voltage, or just the RAM overheating?


----------



## Imprezzion

Ichirou said:


> So was the issue too low IMC voltage, or just the RAM overheating?


Overheating. I think the vDIMM, higher tRFC and tWR helped the most even tho I did raise IMC voltage a bit. I know I was on the edge with the IMC as it would fail Prime95 with all RAM selected if I dropped it any further from testing in cold weather. But, more vDIMM helps even tho it does also make the heat problem worse. It gives it some more "tolerance" and seeing as 1.51v is quite low still i'm comfortable running 1.54v just for stability sake.


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> bandwidth is high at 10700k, it is smaller with 10600k, can see that 12X00 should have had much less SA volt than one should with 10 / 11X00
> 
> so you need to change, then take a 12X00? far better cpu / bandwidth


I'll wait over September After new platform release

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Scorpion667

Removed the heatspreaders from my 2x8GB single rank Samsung B-die (F4-4000C15D-16GVK). Been on the fence for about a year as it's risky. Memory runs 5-6c cooler (33-34c @ 1.558v) with active cooling. I don't recommend this for 99% users but yeah it works if you take your time with a heat gun. Nail polish remover + qtip works to remove leftover glue. I got them looking immaculate but it took some time

















Note: they hit 35c in above screenshot as I closed my case during TM5 Absolut test 4


----------



## GeneO

Nice job!


----------



## Netarangi

Should you always aim for gear 1 with OC? I get much faster read write with gear 2 but latency around 46ns gear 1.

Would a +10% gain in read/write equal a -10% latency loss?


----------



## Imprezzion

Netarangi said:


> Should you always aim for gear 1 with OC? I get much faster read write with gear 2 but latency around 46ns gear 1.
> 
> Would a +10% gain in read/write equal a -10% latency loss?


In my testing with a 2x16GB B-Die kit on a 11900K, yes. 4266 16-17-17 Gear 2 lost in gaming benchmarks to 3866 15-15-15 Gear 1 on a 11900K. It doesn't need more r/w for most use cases. Even 3866 can do around 60GB/s in gear 1 which is plenty. The latency has a much bigger impact at that point.


----------



## Netarangi

Imprezzion said:


> In my testing with a 2x16GB B-Die kit on a 11900K, yes. 4266 16-17-17 Gear 2 lost in gaming benchmarks to 3866 15-15-15 Gear 1 on a 11900K. It doesn't need more r/w for most use cases. Even 3866 can do around 60GB/s in gear 1 which is plenty. The latency has a much bigger impact at that point.


Thank you ser


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> In my testing with a 2x16GB B-Die kit on a 11900K, yes. 4266 16-17-17 Gear 2 lost in gaming benchmarks to 3866 15-15-15 Gear 1 on a 11900K. It doesn't need more r/w for most use cases. Even 3866 can do around 60GB/s in gear 1 which is plenty. The latency has a much bigger impact at that point.





Netarangi said:


> Thank you ser


Video games can only use so much bandwidth before it's just bloat. That's why there are massively diminishing returns beyond 4,000 MHz.
It's for workstation/production purposes that high bandwidth starts to matter much more.


----------



## ilax92

Need help getting 4400 cl16 CR1 stable at 1.55(ish) volts.

So far I have not touched slopes, skew control, rttwr, rttnom, rttpark. I don't have an understanding of these yet and need some guidance. I've read that they can improve stability without increasing VDIMM.

This is what I've been able to achieve so far with CR2.

I cannot boot CR1 4400 cl16 even after increasing VCCSA/IO, VDIMM and loosening primaries/secondaries.

System specs and voltages listed in the photo.


----------



## GeneO

What you got looks really good.

Might want to test it with extreme too, I have had absolut and Karhu appear completely stable, but extreme fail.

I haven't seriously tried for CR1, but I heard enabling trace centering training, if you have that on MSI, helps with that at higher clocks.


----------



## Netarangi

How you guys hitting gear 1 4000+? I can't even boot gear 1 past 3800 cl16.

I have b die too so its not like it's bad ram.


----------



## bscool

Netarangi said:


> How you guys hitting gear 1 4000+? I can't even boot gear 1 past 3800 cl16.
> 
> I have b die too so its not like it's bad ram.


Depends on IMC and finding the right bios. On 12th gen some bioses are much better than others.

Found a screenshot of Tuf with 12700k showing the MB is capable of 4100 with DR b die with a good IMC


----------



## Scorpion667

Turns out this kit had some more juice in it after all! I want to say removing the heatspreaders helped but who knows! I noticed the temp sensor reads 32c but measuring the hottest memory chip using IR sensor shows 37c. So while I thought I was at 40c before per sensor, the chips ran probably 45-46c

Open to any suggestions!


----------



## Ichirou

Scorpion667 said:


> Turns out this kit had some more juice in it after all! I want to say removing the heatspreaders helped but who knows! I noticed the temp sensor reads 32c but measuring the hottest memory chip using IR sensor shows 37c. So while I thought I was at 40c before per sensor, the chips ran probably 45-46c
> 
> Open to any suggestions!
> 
> View attachment 2567597
> 
> View attachment 2567598


_cough_ 1.60V VDIMM to push the RAM further _cough_


----------



## ViTosS

Wish I could get 4400CL16-16-16-36 with tFAW at 16, 18 or 20, I can pass any stress test with those primary timings and all the subs very tight, but as soon as I put tFAW to 16 I have errors, so I stick with 16-17-17-37 and tFAW 16.


----------



## Scorpion667

ViTosS said:


> Wish I could get 4400CL16-16-16-36 with tFAW at 16, 18 or 20, I can pass any stress test with those primary timings and all the subs very tight, but as soon as I put tFAW to 16 I have errors, so I stick with 16-17-17-37 and tFAW 16.


My kit refuses to run 16-16-16 4400 with tFAW 16 as well. No issues with 16-17-17. Is yours B-die as well? I'm no expert but that seems to be a trend with these from following this thread on and off


----------



## Netarangi

bscool said:


> Depends on IMC and finding the right bios. On 12th gen some bioses are much better than others.
> 
> Found a screenshot of Tuf with 12700k showing the MB is capable of 4100 with DR b die with a good IMC


Ooo thanks for hunting the screenshot down.

Hmm.. Considering downgrading bios and starting all over. Then again I might just wait for the 13th gen and hope for a better imc.


----------



## ViTosS

Scorpion667 said:


> My kit refuses to run 16-16-16 4400 with tFAW 16 as well. No issues with 16-17-17. Is yours B-die as well? I'm no expert but that seems to a trend with these from following this thread on and off


Yes B-Die 3600CL15-15-15-35 1.35v XMP. 2x8GB, what is your motherboard? I suspect with Apex or any onther with 2 DIMM slots I could use tFAW at 16... It's weird because I can pass 4533CL16-17-17-37 too but not with tFAW at 16 again, so it really looks like the wall for my setup.


----------



## Scorpion667

ViTosS said:


> Yes B-Die 3600CL15-15-15-35 1.35v XMP. 2x8GB, what is your motherboard? I suspect with Apex or any onther with 2 DIMM slots I could use tFAW at 16... It's weird because I can pass 4533CL16-17-17-37 too but not with tFAW at 16 again, so it really looks like the wall for my setup.


Apex z390 so kind of ancient. I'll keep tinkering and if I find a way to do flat 16 without crippled tFAW I'll definitely post it!

Did you happen to bench flat 16+crippled tFAW vs 16-17-17 tFAW 16? Which was better? I'm a noob like I know the timing relationships but not each one's impact on performance


----------



## ViTosS

Scorpion667 said:


> Apex z390 so kind of ancient. I'll keep tinkering and if I find a way to do flat 16 without crippled tFAW I'll definitely post it!
> 
> Did you happen to bench flat 16+crippled tFAW vs 16-17-17 tFAW 16? Which was better? I'm a noob like I know the timing relationships but not each one's impact on performance


I didn't bench games, but I remember when I had tFAW on AUTO and was testing subtiming by subtiming some time ago in a completely bottlenecked benchmark at 720p low (Shadow of the Tomb Raider), tFAW 16 made a huge impact in elevating the GPU usage compared to AUTO, but I didn't bench flat 16 and crippled tFAW vs 16-17-17-37 tFAW 16, one thing I noticed was that with tFAW AUTO it took double of the time for TM5 Anta777 Extreme preset to complete compared to tFAW 16


----------



## ViTosS

I tried every possible combination of voltages (VDIMM, VCCIO, VCCSA), even if I leave every other subtiming on AUTO and flat 16 but ONLY tFAW at 16 I can't pass stress test, the only thing I didn't try was messing with slopes, skew control, rttwr, rttnom, rttpark, also made sure to keep the RAM temp below 40c in all the testings, I nailed it down it's ONLY tFAW that I can't tight, all the rest can be tightened down and pass stress test together with flat 16.


----------



## ilax92

ViTosS said:


> it's ONLY tFAW that I can't tight, all the rest can be tightened down and pass stress test together with flat 16.


That is so specific and strange. I can feel your pain. 😅


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> I tried every possible combination of voltages (VDIMM, VCCIO, VCCSA), even if I leave every other subtiming on AUTO and flat 16 but ONLY tFAW at 16 I can't pass stress test, the only thing I didn't try was messing with slopes, skew control, rttwr, rttnom, rttpark, also made sure to keep the RAM temp below 40c in all the testings, I nailed it down it's ONLY tFAW that I can't tight, all the rest can be tightened down and pass stress test together with flat 16.


I also hit that tFAW wall but at higher frequencies. I can run 4400 straight 17's or 16-17-17 on tFAW 16 but if I push for 4533 17-17-17 I need to go down to 24 tFAW among others. tRDWR's also have to be raised significantly to run 4533 on mine and overall performance is lower then 4400. I just settled for 4400 straight 17's with everything tightened up as far as it goes on 1.54v so I can actually keep the DIMM's cool in the summer heat. This means I can run tFAW 16 but have to drop tWTR to 8/3 as it won't run 7/2 or 6/1 and tWR 12 in stead of 10 what I normally run.

Maybe try tFAW 16 with higher tRDWR's and one step higher tWR with trrd_l 6 and trrd_s 4. Might help.

In colder ambients I would normally run much tighter at 4266 15-16-16 with much tighter subtimings but that requires like 1.63v so heat becomes an issue until I waterblock my RAM.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> Maybe try tFAW 16 with higher tRDWR's and one step higher tWR with trrd_l 6 and trrd_s 4. Might help.


Nah, like I said I tried all the other on AUTO and only changing tFAW to 16 no success...


----------



## Imprezzion

ViTosS said:


> Nah, like I said I tried all the other on AUTO and only changing tFAW to 16 no success...


Oof. Well, goes to show every kit is different. Yours hates tFAW, mine hates tRDWR's under 14. On the one hand I kinda wanna get a better kit but it's hard to justify the price for such a small gain.


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> Oof. Well, goes to show every kit is different. Yours hates tFAW, mine hates tRDWR's under 14. On the one hand I kinda wanna get a better kit but it's hard to justify the price for such a small gain.


I would like to get 32GB, but I don't know if it's worth it atm, all the games play fine with 16GB. And I'm planning to game in 4k on my LG OLED C1 so I think is better invest in GPU rather than CPU or RAM.


----------



## ilax92

ViTosS said:


> I would like to get 32GB, but I don't know if it's worth it atm, all the games play fine with 16GB. And I'm planning to game in 4k on my LG OLED C1 so I think is better invest in GPU rather than CPU or RAM.


I just ‘upgraded’ from 16GB trident royal which I think were god bin, to a 32gb trident royal… and i’m having to walk back and loosen all my timings.

Dropping all of my timings seems feels like a downgrade but we’ll see what my gaming performance is.


----------



## Ichirou

There will always be differences in RAM kits as well as motherboards that limit what you can achieve in terms of frequency and/or timings.

@ilax92 Samsung B-die DR is different from SR, but not a lot. Most of the primaries and secondaries remain the same.


----------



## Scorpion667

Imprezzion said:


> Oof. Well, goes to show every kit is different. Yours hates tFAW, mine hates tRDWR's under 14. On the one hand I kinda wanna get a better kit but it's hard to justify the price for such a small gain.


Sigh.. I feel that. I keep scoping the GSkill 4000c14 kit but it's hard to justify especially with my 4000c15 kit being fairly decent at 32.4ns latency.

I'm a gamer at the end of the day but if XOC was my focus I'd certainly pull the trigger.


----------



## Ichirou

Scorpion667 said:


> Sigh.. I feel that. I keep scoping the GSkill 4000c14 kit but it's hard to justify especially with my 4000c15 kit being fairly decent at 32.4ns latency.
> 
> I'm a gamer at the end of the day but if XOC was my focus I'd certainly pull the trigger.


No point getting a 4,000 CL14 kit when it's only a little bit better binned than the 3,600 CL14 kit.
Does the exact same settings for slightly less VDIMM. That's all.


----------



## passingby

new to this anything else to adjust? im iffy on the Tras since theres so many conflicting formulas on what to set it to also its running at 1.65v but has a 3k rpm fan directly on it anything to worry about?hasnt given one BSOD or error/crash to desktop for a month


----------



## Ichirou

passingby said:


> new to this anything else to adjust? im iffy on the Tras since theres so many conflicting formulas on what to set it to also its running at 1.65v but has a 3k rpm fan directly on it anything to worry about?hasnt given one BSOD or error/crash to desktop for a month
> View attachment 2567692


tWTR_S at 0 is probably giving you negative performance; you might want to AIDA check that with higher values.
tRAS can go as low as you want; after a certain point it just gets ignored and rounded up.
If it's Single Rank, you could probably drop all of the _dr and _dd tertiaries to 1.
tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg tend to do better when they match.
tCKE could drop to 0


----------



## ilax92

Ichirou said:


> There will always be differences in RAM kits as well as motherboards that limit what you can achieve in terms of frequency and/or timings.
> 
> @ilax92 Samsung B-die DR is different from SR, but not a lot. Most of the primaries and secondaries remain the same.


Well, I was concerned when this dual rank kit wouldn't do straight 16's like my single rank kit, but after loosing tRCD and tRP I'm getting some nice overclocks. I only need 1.43v to get 4200 16-17-17-32 stable, and 1.51v for these same timings at 4400. I'd say this is a W for some cheap Trident Royals I found off craigslist.

F4-4266C16D-32GTRG


----------



## nikolaus85

ilax92 said:


> Well, I was concerned when this dual rank kit wouldn't do straight 16's like my single rank kit, but after loosing tRCD and tRP I'm getting some nice overclocks. I only need 1.43v to get 4200 16-17-17-32 stable, and 1.51v for these same timings at 4400. I'd say this is a W for some cheap Trident Royals I found off craigslist.
> 
> F4-4266C16D-32GTRG
> 
> View attachment 2567712
> 
> View attachment 2567714


can i see your aida and sottr scores? We have similar setup, i have 10700k, z490 unify and 2x16 4400 c17 ripjaws (running 16 17 17 34 with tight timings).


----------



## ilax92

nikolaus85 said:


> can i see your aida and sottr scores? We have similar setup, i have 10700k, z490 unify and 2x16 4400 c17 ripjaws (running 16 17 17 34 with tight timings).


Umm I'll update you when I'm finishing tuning, but my latency is usually around 35ns or less at 5.1GHz all core. Because I have a 2 DIMM motherboard, my latency is always pretty low.


----------



## pipes

I try to reach ram limit using dram voltage 1,5v sa/io 1.25/1,20
now I'm stable on 4300 cl16


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> can i see your aida and sottr scores? We have similar setup, i have 10700k, z490 unify and 2x16 4400 c17 ripjaws (running 16 17 17 34 with tight timings).


Do you use aseoci timings or other software?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> Do you use aseoci timings or other software?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


you mean asrock timing configurator? You have still big margin of improvement by lowering timings and raising voltages i think.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> I try to reach ram limit using dram voltage 1,5v sa/io 1.25/1,20
> now I'm stable on 4300 cl16
> View attachment 2567854


get North Bridge up at 45 ore 46


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> you mean asrock timing configurator? You have still big margin of improvement by lowering timings and raising voltages i think.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I have run and stable at 4400 c16 @1.55 sa/io 1.25/1.20v.
edit: find but no work it read all bad


----------



## pipes

I have solved with dragon ball software for read timings 

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> I have solved with dragon ball software for read timings
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I ned more sa/io volt on min 10600K 
whit 4300/4400MHZ 1.3+ 4200MHZ it can run at 1.25v but after 4300MHZ it ned more


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> I ned more sa/io volt on min 10600K
> whit 4300/4400MHZ 1.3+ 4200MHZ it can run at 1.25v but after 4300MHZ it ned more


for run at 4400 cl16 need 1.55 dram 1.35/1.30 of sa/io voltage


----------



## GeneO

pipes said:


> I have run and stable at 4400 c16 @1.55 sa/io 1.25/1.20v.
> edit: find but no work it read all bad


Look for version 4.0.13 of Asrock Timing Configurator. A link to it is in one of the memory threads on site here.


----------



## edkieferlp

GeneO said:


> Look for version 4.0.13 of Asrock Timing Configurator. A link to it is in one of the memory threads on site here.











MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## pipes

GeneO said:


> Look for version 4.0.13 of Asrock Timing Configurator. A link to it is in one of the memory threads on site here.


i will try but dragon ball work for me


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> i will try but dragon ball work for me


sa 1.38 IO 1.36 mem 1.55v ,







remember that remember your cpu has better bandwidth than mine has


----------



## pipes

I managed to do a test with trfc at 300 but after searching for memtest stability, the crash does not allow me to start the PC without reset

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Netarangi

Is it always better running cr 1 gear mode 1 even if the ram only boots at 3200mhz?

I can get gear mode 1 cr2 stable at cl14 3800mhz but I can't get anything above 3300mhz booting with gear mode 1 cr1. Gear mode 2 cr1 can boot and be stable at 4400mhz. Surely my IMC isn't _that _weak.

Latency is mostly the same across all options (around 50-55ns with only primaries set).


----------



## Imprezzion

Netarangi said:


> Is it always better running cr 1 gear mode 1 even if the ram only boots at 3200mhz?
> 
> I can get gear mode 1 cr2 stable at cl14 3800mhz but I can't get anything above 3300mhz booting with gear mode 1 cr1. Gear mode 2 cr1 can boot and be stable at 4400mhz. Surely my IMC isn't _that _weak.
> 
> Latency is mostly the same across all options (around 50-55ns with only primaries set).


The problem with gear 1 crew in your example is the lack of bandwidth on 3200. It could work, if your timings go low enough like straight 12's with very tight tertiary timings but still, lack of bandwidth will cost you.


----------



## Ichirou

Netarangi said:


> Is it always better running cr 1 gear mode 1 even if the ram only boots at 3200mhz?
> 
> I can get gear mode 1 cr2 stable at cl14 3800mhz but I can't get anything above 3300mhz booting with gear mode 1 cr1. Gear mode 2 cr1 can boot and be stable at 4400mhz. Surely my IMC isn't _that _weak.
> 
> Latency is mostly the same across all options (around 50-55ns with only primaries set).


If CR1 strictly fails in Gear 1, it's an IMC issue.
You can try to compensate with a VCCSA boost.


----------



## Mappi75

Hello, whats the best TM5 config for testing AMD Threadripper 3970X with G.Skill 256GB 3.600 CL16 RAM?

Tried to download the tm5 hedt version but google drive wont let me because it tells me its a virus..


----------



## Ichirou

Mappi75 said:


> Hello, whats the best TM5 config for testing AMD Threadripper 3970X with G.Skill 256GB 3.600 CL16 RAM?
> 
> Tried to download the tm5 hedt version but google drive wont let me because it tells me its a virus..


Just use TM5 with an anta777 config. It's available on this forum.


----------



## Mappi75

you mean the [email protected] profile ?


----------



## Ichirou

Mappi75 said:


> you mean the [email protected] profile ?


There are a couple. Pretty much anyone works.


----------



## pipes

After crash of yesterday night, various boot problem, clear bios reset and this is the boot problem









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

I discovered one thing, doing memtest, on both modules and put one at a time on channels A2 and B2, a stock put on the channel by many errors









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> I discovered one thing, doing memtest, on both modules and put one at a time on channels A2 and B2, a stock put on the channel by many errors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


stop using testmem86 and up sa/io voltages

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Are testing with all default settings

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

everything seems to have returned to normal

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## ilax92

Does anybody have any experience with random hard PC reboots on MSI boards while running Testmem5?

Is this my memory controller just throwing in the towel? Are there some settings I'm missing in the bios?

Could this be fixed by, or related to, skew control, vref, and slopes?

4200 is stable for this dual rank kit. 4400 is almost a hard reboot every time I run testing. Really need some guidance here!

Specs
I9-10900k OC 50/47
MSI Z590i Unify
F4-4266C16D-32GTRG

VCORE 1.27v
VDIMM 1.55v
VCCSA 1.32v
VCCIO 1.28v


----------



## Ichirou

ilax92 said:


> Does anybody have any experience with random hard PC reboots on MSI boards while running Testmem5?
> 
> Is this my memory controller just throwing in the towel? Are there some settings I'm missing in the bios?
> 
> Could this be fixed by, or related to, skew control, vref, and slopes?
> 
> 4200 is stable for this dual rank kit. 4400 is almost a hard reboot every time I run testing. Really need some guidance here!
> 
> Specs
> I9-10900k OC 50/47
> MSI Z590i Unify
> F4-4266C16D-32GTRG
> 
> VCORE 1.27v
> VDIMM 1.55v
> VCCSA 1.32v
> VCCIO 1.28v
> 
> View attachment 2567931


Well, do you get a BSOD? If so, it's a memory issue.


----------



## ilax92

Ichirou said:


> Well, do you get a BSOD? If so, it's a memory issue.


No BSOD ever, just a kernal error in event viewer afterwards for an unexpected shutdown.

The only time I see this happening is when pushing single rank kits above 4600 or dual rank kits above 4400. Everything below that is stable.


----------



## nikolaus85

ilax92 said:


> Does anybody have any experience with random hard PC reboots on MSI boards while running Testmem5?
> 
> Is this my memory controller just throwing in the towel? Are there some settings I'm missing in the bios?
> 
> Could this be fixed by, or related to, skew control, vref, and slopes?
> 
> 4200 is stable for this dual rank kit. 4400 is almost a hard reboot every time I run testing. Really need some guidance here!
> 
> Specs
> I9-10900k OC 50/47
> MSI Z590i Unify
> F4-4266C16D-32GTRG
> 
> VCORE 1.27v
> VDIMM 1.55v
> VCCSA 1.32v
> VCCIO 1.28v
> 
> View attachment 2567931


maybe your sa, io and vref are too low.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## kitzik

ilax92 said:


> Does anybody have any experience with random hard PC reboots on MSI boards while running Testmem5?
> 
> Is this my memory controller just throwing in the towel? Are there some settings I'm missing in the bios?
> 
> Could this be fixed by, or related to, skew control, vref, and slopes?
> 
> 4200 is stable for this dual rank kit. 4400 is almost a hard reboot every time I run testing. Really need some guidance here!
> 
> Specs
> I9-10900k OC 50/47
> MSI Z590i Unify
> F4-4266C16D-32GTRG
> 
> VCORE 1.27v
> VDIMM 1.55v
> VCCSA 1.32v
> VCCIO 1.28v
> 
> View attachment 2567931


VCORE seems to be too low for this DRAM frequency. Faster memory makes CPU run faster, thus CPU needs more power. Set LLC to Mode 5 and VCORE to 1.33v.


----------



## pipes

ilax92 said:


> No BSOD ever, just a kernal error in event viewer afterwards for an unexpected shutdown.
> 
> The only time I see this happening is when pushing single rank kits above 4600 or dual rank kits above 4400. Everything below that is stable.


Random crash in overclock or default too?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

kitzik said:


> VCORE seems to be too low for this DRAM frequency. Faster memory makes CPU run faster, thus CPU needs more power. Set LLC to Mode 5 and VCORE to 1.33v.


Why don't use llc3 or 4? many recommend llc3 for many scenarios, it is more stable, according to 5 you cut the input current much more

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## kitzik

pipes said:


> Why don't use llc3 or 4? many recommend llc3 for many scenarios, it is more stable, according to 5 you cut the input current much more
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


For MSI boards Mode 5 is the best. Check this video Z490 voltage regulation on the Apex, Xtreme, Unify, ITX Ultra and Vision G - YouTube

edit: LLC doesn't work like a "cut" anyway. It's a common mistake. How load line calibration actually works - YouTube


----------



## pipes

Tthe loadline calibration works on the vrm that tend to put resistance according to the selection of the value, in fact the loadline calibration is expressed in mOhms and works on the AC / DC of the line.
My bad English doesn't help.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ny2hj6

Datasheet Intel CPU can help to understand

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## kitzik

Yes. And the main idea is to find the LLC mode that minimizes the difference between Vmin and Vmax. For MSI boards it is Mode 5 (according to buildzoid's measurements). Anyway, I have nearly the same config as ilax92 and Vcore 1.33v along with LLC5 m5 work like a charm. One more time, it is have to be noted that Vcore depends on memory bandwidth and latency. Higher bandwidth and latency cause more cpu operations per time -> more power consumption -> more Vcore. You could easily check it with hwinfo64. Set memory timings to default, run linx and check CPU power consumption. Then overclock memory and do the same.


----------



## pipes

Need for vdroop and cut the current and what you set is little bit down then you read with multimeter...which frequency and voltage you have for your CPU?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

kitzik said:


> Yes. And the main idea is to find the LLC mode that minimizes the difference between Vmin and Vmax. For MSI boards it is Mode 5 (according to buildzoid's measurements). Anyway, I have nearly the same config as ilax92 and Vcore 1.33v along with LLC5 m5 work like a charm. One more time, it is have to be noted that Vcore depends on memory bandwidth and latency. Higher bandwidth and latency cause more cpu operations per time -> more power consumption -> more Vcore. You could easily check it with hwinfo64. Set memory timings to default, run linx and check CPU power consumption. Then overclock memory and do the same.


I know...but do had tlak of instability yesterday? Or I have understand bad?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> I know...but do had tlak of instability yesterday? Or I have understand bad?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Wrong user sorry

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

Ok so I can finally run XMP 4400 on 11700KF, well at least while I type this. It never wanted to boot at all, 4266Mhz or 4350Mhz blck OC was the best it could do.

The trick was in ODT, mine were 80 60 60, or IF i did see 4400 it was 80 240 0, I think.

I've seen 80 48 40 number few times and today I said ok let me try this then, and yeah It took only 2 tries, was watching led display for codes and 055 showed 2x, then on 3rd it booted into windows.

Still a bit looser timings, was mostly playing it safe just to see whats going on. I also raised IO2 from 1.30 to 1.35v just in case, 1.30v is enough for 4266 CL16-16-16


my older 4266 stable, didnt want to mess with lower timings and higher voltage, this makes 42ns in intel MLC.








now 4400 test, and intel mlc














It passed cinebench20 too, although not much difference vs 4266, guess of looser timings? CL16 vs CL17?


*EDIT*: what would be ideal timings for 4533 then, and ramv 1.50v, cl17-19-19?

I was 1000% sure this 11700KF was at its limit on 4360mhz, but guess it's got more juice in it. Would the same ODT timmings apply in Gear1?, somehow with this new royal 2x16gb kit I cant run 3733 anymore.


@pipes

I have to use LLC3 on unify, LLC4 is apparently that LLC5 on asus, I can use LLC4 but the vdrop is a bit too much and e.g. 1.29v 5GHz isnt stable anymore at LLC4 and needs 1.31v, there is still slight drop on LLC3 so it won't overshoot.


----------



## pipes

TheHunter said:


> Ok so I can finally run XMP 4400 on 11700KF, well at least while I type this. It never wanted to boot at all, 4266Mhz or 4350Mhz blck OC was the best it could do.
> 
> The trick was in ODT, mine were 80 60 60, or IF i did see 4400 it was 80 240 0, I think.
> 
> I've seen 80 48 40 number few times and today I said ok let me try this then, and yeah It took only 2 tries, was watching led display for codes and 055 showed 2x, then on 3rd it booted into windows.
> 
> Still a bit looser timings, was mostly playing it safe just to see whats going on. I also raised IO2 from 1.30 to 1.35v just in case, 1.30v is enough for 4266 CL16-16-16
> 
> 
> my older 4266 stable, didnt want to mess with lower timings and higher voltage, this makes 42ns in intel MLC.
> View attachment 2567966
> 
> 
> now 4400 test, and intel mlc
> View attachment 2567965
> View attachment 2567967
> 
> 
> It passed cinebench20 too, although not much difference vs 4266, guess of looser timings? CL16 vs CL17?
> 
> 
> *EDIT*: what would be ideal timings for 4533 then, and ramv 1.50v, cl17-19-19?
> 
> I was 1000% sure this 11700KF was at its limit on 4360mhz, but guess it's got more juice in it. Would the same ODT timmings apply in Gear1?, somehow with this new royal 2x16gb kit I cant run 3733 anymore.
> 
> 
> @pipes
> 
> I have to use LLC3 on unify, LLC4 is apparently that LLC5 on asus, I can use LLC4 but the vdrop is a bit too much and e.g. 1.29v 5GHz isnt stable anymore at LLC4 and needs 1.31v, there is still slight drop on LLC3 so it won't overshoot.


Me too on z490 unify I use llc3

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

yeah, no worries there. I inspected voltage a lot and its fine at llc3.



So, I tweaked 4400 some more, and this is the best I can do, if I lower turnaround to 14's it would bsod memory management, atm at 15 and its ok.









I usually use trefi 35138, atm 28110 seems ok too, what's the deal with this anyway? , too low and it heats more while too loose and it can cause corruption but heat less or still heats?


----------



## pipes

are you stable at those frequencies? to get 4400c16-20-20-40 I'm using 1.55 of ram voltage, 1.35 and 1.30 of voltage sa and io

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

Stable to pass various memory bandwidh tests and cinebench. Funny thing, its the first time it booted and was stable, thanks to those OTD settings at 80 48 40 for both channels.
This g.skill royal XMP is 4400 cl17-18-18-38 1.50v, but it doesn't like tRDWR at 14's, by 4266 it's ok. 4400 needs minimum 15's


Edit: it is stable, ran memtest and my ultimate test destiny2 and it passed.



I would like to try 4533, but idk what timings to use there, totally clueless at that point , seen a few with cl17-19-19 , but will this need more IO2 voltage, more then 1.35?


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> everything seems to have returned to normal
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


have tried like you that the MSI bios has locked up so well, even after setting it to 0, that I had to take out the memory completely and start the PC without mem, and then put it back in


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> Me too on z490 unify I use llc3
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I use RTT wr 80 ,Nom 0, Park 48


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> I use RTT wr 80 ,Nom 0, Park 48


does it have to do with loadline calibration?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> have tried like you that the MSI bios has locked up so well, even after setting it to 0, that I had to take out the memory completely and start the PC without mem, and then put it back in


This my solution: I discovered one thing, doing memtest, on both modules and put one at a time on channels A2 and B2, a stock put on the channel by many errors.
After these test the pc has crashed and it make all normal

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

sometimes it seems like a deficit in restoring after an overclock failure

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> sometimes it seems like a deficit in restoring after an overclock failure
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


yes, you have to threaten it with a beating, then it will do well


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> does it have to do with loadline calibration?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


it is at B-die in the bios a little further down,I don't use ODT in the bios, it runs auto,but it should be basically the same, but it just gives way better to my mem


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> it is at B-die in the bios a little further down,I don't use ODT in the bios, it runs auto,but it should be basically the same, but it just gives way better to my mem


thanks for the advice, I try to set up and better understand the improvement

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

Hi, so what would be ideal 4533mhz on rocketlake, voltages and timings on a good binned b-die system?


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> Hi, so what would be ideal 4533mhz on rocketlake, voltages and timings on a good binned b-die system?


depends on how good a cpu you have, lotto country


----------



## storm-chaser

TheHunter said:


> Hi, so what would be ideal 4533mhz on rocketlake, voltages and timings on a good binned b-die system?


If you are talking primary mem timings at 4533Mhz its going to be something like 16-15-15-35 at > 1.5 volts

Sort of like this (I know this is a generation b4 but still very close to what you might see):


----------



## TheHunter

^

It's a 2x16gb kit and i want to stay in 1.50v ,not break oc records with it. But thanks for idea.


Cl16-17-17 is no go for 4400, so i highly doubt cl16-15-15 will be.. 

Im happy in cl17 or even cl18 territory, just want it to boot. Obviously there is a trick in odt at this point, since i had to readjust those to get 4400 stable in the first place.

@Martin v r 

Well i thought its total ****, capped at 4266 ratio, but here i am now running more demanding 1:100 4400 ratio np, io2 still within ok voltage, 1.35v atm


----------



## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> ^
> 
> It's a 2x16gb kit and i want to stay in 1.50v ,not break oc records with it. But thanks for idea.
> 
> 
> Cl16-17-17 is no go for 4400, so i highly doubt cl16-15-15 will be..
> 
> Im happy in cl17 or even cl18 territory, just want it to boot. Obviously there is a trick in odt at this point, since i had to readjust those to get 4400 stable in the first place.
> 
> @Martin v r
> 
> Well i thought its total ****, capped at 4266 ratio, but here i am now running more demanding 1:100 4400 ratio np, io2 still within ok voltage, 1.35v atm


I would go for 1.50v 4533 17-19-19-39-370-2T then. Turnaround 15's or 16's, tWR 12, tCWL 16, tREFI ~48000, tFAW 16, tRRD_S 4 _L 6. A good bin will do this.


----------



## pipes

On z490 unify tRRD is same to tRRD_S?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

pipes said:


> On z490 unify tRRD is same to tRRD_S?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I somehow forgot to change to 4 and 6, I have it like that now.. but yeah at 4 4 it was stable. At least on these odt 80 48 40, on older 80 60 60 it was only possible at 4266, 4300+ mhz no go.



Also i had to raise turnarounds to 16's, 15 was on the edge for 4400.


----------



## bscool

TheHunter said:


> Hi, so what would be ideal 4533mhz on rocketlake, voltages and timings on a good binned b-die system?


With 11th gen CPU? I would say 4266 to 4400 in gear 2. I have z590 Apex and Unify X and with 11th gen CPU much past 4400 is difficult to get memtest/Karhu stable even with those MB and DR b die.


----------



## pipes

TheHunter said:


> In qualche modo ho dimenticato di passare a 4 e 6, ora ce l'ho così .. ma sì a 4 4 era stabile. Almeno su questi odt 80 48 40, sui vecchi 80 60 60 era possibile solo a 4266, 4300+ mhz no go.
> 
> 
> 
> Inoltre ho dovuto aumentare i turnaround a 16, 15 era al limite per 4400.
> [/CITAZIONE]
> tRDD_L at 6 is very unstable, memtest give me many errors


----------



## pipes

bscool said:


> Con CPU di 11a generazione? Direi da 4266 a 4400 in marcia 2. Ho z590 Apex e Unify X e con CPU di 11a generazione molto oltre 4400 è difficile ottenere memtest/Karhu stabile anche con quei MB e DR b die.
> [/CITAZIONE]
> Hai 2 sistemi z590 con generazione 11a?
> which is best for overclock, in ram and cpu?


----------



## TheHunter

bscool said:


> With 11th gen CPU? I would say 4266 to 4400 in gear 2. I have z590 Apex and Unify X and with 11th gen CPU much past 4400 is difficult to get memtest/Karhu stable even with those MB and DR b die.


Ah i see.. well atm it cant post at all, but 4400 xmp finally works, so at least something


----------



## bscool

With 11900k z590 Apex is better in gear 1 and z590 Unify X is better in gear 2 for DR b die for me. If comparing something like aida64 #s. But in actual use no difference.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I would go for 1.50v 4533 17-19-19-39-370-2T then. Turnaround 15's or 16's, tWR 12, tCWL 16, tREFI ~48000, tFAW 16, tRRD_S 4 _L 6. A good bin will do this.


if you want to squeeze the ram, you have to go over 1.50v. 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

I am disheartened by my ram and or configuration, the same settings are now no longer stable in memtest, the only difference is the mei firmware update

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> if you want to squeeze the ram, you have to go over 1.50v.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


then my rams are at the limit, i don't have much rams

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> then my rams are at the limit, i don't have much rams
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


i am confused, what ram do you have now? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> i am confused, what ram do you have now?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Patriot viper steel 4000 cl19

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## storm-chaser

pipes said:


> Patriot viper steel 4000 cl19


Note sure if this is going to help, and I know my processor is a little older but I run my Patriot Viper Steel 4133 C19 (very similar b-die to what you are running) at the following daily driver settings, for reference. *Ignore core voltage and clock speed I'm talking memory OC only here. If I remember correctly this is about 1.53v for stability, which is still well within limits.*


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> Patriot viper steel 4000 cl19
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


with viper try these settings.








































































Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

Hi @nikolaus85









Is Rtt Nom at 0 for specific speed or your ram? Maybe that might help by me with 4533 mhz? I use 80 40 48 atm, which is ok now at 4400


----------



## pipes

TRDD_L AT 4 give me errors in memtest, Ali Ali try all setting them you have sending.
I thank you so much

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Let's say. Which I said slowly because I have enough time between now and August 26, I am with the cast for a fracture in my metacarpus. Indeed with two metacarpals.

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

TheHunter said:


> Hi @nikolaus85
> View attachment 2568079
> 
> 
> Is Rtt Nom at 0 for specific speed or your ram? Maybe that might help by me with 4533 mhz? I use 80 40 48 atm, which is ok now at 4400


it is the only odt i was rock solid with viper 4400

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> Let's say. Which I said slowly because I have enough time between now and August 26, I am with the cast for a fracture in my metacarpus. Indeed with two metacarpals.
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


don't change timings all togheter. First put primaries and trefi. Reboot and when rtl iols are correct fix them like i did. Then secondaries, then the others timings. First of these operations change voltages and training settings.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

At the moment I am using this guide, I am going step by step. Changing one setting at a time because otherwise you won't find the problem. If you change them all together.









MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> don't change timings all togheter. First put primaries and trefi. Reboot and when rtl iols are correct fix them like i did. Then secondaries, then the others timings. First of these operations change voltages and training settings.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Right now I'm coming to the tRFC, but I can't get below 386.

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Webbmaster

_What are my results: seems quite ok(medium), so what to try to make it faster? *b-die Samsung** Revision B1 8layers 
G.SKILL Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL16-16-16-36 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA*_
Tried
*4000 Mhz *- _*Voltage 1.5V, VCCSA 1.24V VCCCIO 1.2V* stable_
*4100 Mhz -* _*Voltage 1.5V, VCCSA 1.24V VCCCIO 1.2V* stable
*Got Erorrs 4133 Mhz - **Voltage 1.51V, added till VCCSA 1.25V added VCCCIO 1.21V -** (couldn't boot at 1.5V)*
Seems 2T is only possible, what is better tighten then? 
Anybody with similar modules welcome to share.

PS. Work at default 4000MHz without errors in tm5 or Aida64 stress memory test on auto settings at my motherboard Gigabyte Z490 VISION G (rev. 1.0) + Intel i9-10900KF with *Voltage 1.5V, VCCSA 1.25V VCCCIO 1.2V* 

EXTRA Question-
Read many DDR4-FAQs but with BIOS parameters in GYGABYTE Need some help - attach my BIOS memory settings - not sure about what to put:_
Memory timing mode - Fixed or Dynamic.
Realtime memory timing?
Memory Boot mode?
Channel-rank interleaving!?
*Don't touch FSB* *100MHz ->133Mhz?*


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> Hi @nikolaus85
> View attachment 2568079
> 
> 
> Is Rtt Nom at 0 for specific speed or your ram? Maybe that might help by me with 4533 mhz? I use 80 40 48 atm, which is ok now at 4400


I use oc Explore Expert mode
right now I'm running on air, but I'm getting water cooling ready for it again. you can take a photo in the bios, F12, and put them on a usb, correct them in paint to a JPG file


----------



## TheHunter

Martin v r said:


> I use oc Explore Expert mode
> right now I'm running on air, but I'm getting water cooling ready for it again. you can take a photo in the bios, F12, and put them on a usb, correct them in paint to a JPG file
> View attachment 2568115
> View attachment 2568116
> View attachment 2568118


Hi,

This is how it's set last time i took some pics, but Turnarounds need to be at 16's now. 15's crashed the game.


Cpu at 4.8ghz atm for summer, cache 4ghz if it matters


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is how it's set last time i took some pics, but Turnarounds need to be at 16's now. 15's crashed the game.
> 
> 
> Cpu at 4.8ghz atm for summer, cache 4ghz if it matters


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is how it's set last time i took some pics, but Turnarounds need to be at 16's now. 15's crashed the game.
> 
> 
> Cpu at 4.8ghz atm for summer, cache 4ghz if it matters
> 
> View attachment 2568125
> 
> View attachment 2568123
> 
> View attachment 2568122
> 
> View attachment 2568121


80 48 40 ? here 80/0/48 ore 80/40/48


----------



## TheHunter

Martin v r said:


> 80 48 40 ? here 80/0/48 ore 80/40/48


Yes for 4400mhz 80 48 40 is ok, i also fixed trfc since then and its 352, not 351, was a typo from me when i first entered it in. Saw later when I took those screens. 


But these odt's wont work for 4533, will try 80 0 48 later today how that goes, if it works at all..


----------



## pipes

TheHunter said:


> Yes for 4400mhz 80 48 40 is ok, i also fixed trfc since then and its 352, not 351, was a typo from me when i first entered it in. Saw later when I took those screens.
> 
> 
> But these odt's wont work for 4533, will try 80 0 48 later today how that goes, if it works at all..


I use 80,0,48 for 4000 c17...do you think help more 80,40,48?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## storm-chaser

@TheHunter 
Have you tried to max out tREFI? I think you should be able to go higher than this.


----------



## TheHunter

Im using 35138 trefi now, this seems to be golden middle.. usually used it, i tried to max it out one time but it made gfx corruption in destiny2, like broken artifacts glass shattered.. had similar glitch if turnaround too low or if i used txp at 7 vs auto 10?


Ok so i tested a bit and sadly no go for 4533..

80 0 48
80 0 40
80 0 120

Also tried
80 48 40 , instead of 80 40 48
None work, guess one member was right.. this 4400 is the limit for b die on rocketlake.



@pipes

Depends, mine boots on both for 4400

80 0 48 Or 80 48 40


----------



## TheHunter

EDIT:
A general ODT question for b-die ram, lets say more higher binned one


which one would be more ideal, since both boot into windows, 80 48 40 is proven to be stable, not sure about other one

wr 80
nom 48
park 40

or

wr 80
nom 0
park 40 (I tried 48 one time and it booted normally into windows and idled a bit, guess 40 works too)


----------



## pipes

I promise my house is 30 degrees 29 degrees. I wanted to understand if tRFC. Being conditioned by the temperature if it could improve the situation since I can not go below and 389 the time a fan could improve the situation.

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## TheHunter

pipes said:


> I promise my house is 30 degrees 29 degrees. I wanted to understand if tRFC. Being conditioned by the temperature if it could improve the situation since I can not go below and 389 the time a fan could improve the situation.
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Is your ram Samsung b-die too? If it's not then don't bother with too low tRFC.


----------



## pipes

TheHunter said:


> Is your ram Samsung b-die too? If it's not then don't bother with too low tRFC.


Yes are Samsung b-die

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

If you are so hot, then you should perhaps think that the problem lies there, they are not happy to get above 55c


----------



## pipes

Martin vr said:


> If you are that hot then you should perhaps think that the problem lies there, they are not happy to exceed 55c
> [/CITATION]
> The Patriot ram doesn't have the temperature sensor and I can't know that.
> nut i tried a g.skill ddr4 4800 c17 and it did not exceed 43 ° C on ram hci stress test.
> 
> this is a result after days of work to test by following a good guide


----------



## Martin v r

have you tried setting tREFI to max in the bios?









MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> have you tried setting tREFI to max in the bios?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> 
> 
> C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


I still have to get to the tREFI, I'm testing one timing at a time ... but today I set vccst and vccstg to 1.06 to see if it helps

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

no one has ever tried these ram: G.SKILL Ripjaws V F4-5333C22D-16GVK


----------



## KedarWolf

pipes said:


> no one has ever tried these ram: G.SKILL Ripjaws V F4-5333C22D-16GVK


https://www.hkepc.com/20309/極速_DDR4-5333_神_RAM__G.SKILL_Trdient_Z_Royal_Elite_D4-5333_CL22_16GB 

Hynix, not Samsung.


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> no one has ever tried these ram: G.SKILL Ripjaws V F4-5333C22D-16GVK


I have the 5333 kit and it is good for gear 2 11th gen but you wouldnt want it with 10thgen cpu.


----------



## pipes

150 € on Amazon is a good price


----------



## nikolaus85

i trying to stabilize 4533 c16 with gskill dr 2x16.........but it seems impossible due to imc limit, no matter voltages or settings i change, gsat gives me instant bsod. Anyone got ad advice? I got z490 unify with 10700k.


----------



## TheHunter

nikolaus85 said:


> i trying to stabilize 4533 c16 with gskill dr 2x16.........but it seems impossible due to imc limit, no matter voltages or settings i change, gsat gives me instant bsod. Anyone got ad advice? I got z490 unify with 10700k.
> View attachment 2568314


do you need to have turnarounds so tight at 11? Why not loosen them up a bit, idk at 13 or 14 and those bigger ones at 28 23 to 30 25 or 32 27.

same goes for tWR and tRTP, why not 16 8 or 20 10.



I gave up on 4533 for now on mine, but Im on rocketlake.


----------



## pipes

Have you try to increase vccst e vccstg?
IfIf you want try to increase tRP and tRCCD at 20


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> Have you try to increase vccst e vccstg?
> IfIf you want try to increase tRP and tRCCD at 20


i tried but nothing changed, increased timings and voltages, but nothing.


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> i tried but nothing changed, increased timings and voltages, but nothing.


What voltage for these settings?


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> What voltage for these settings?


i tried sa and io 1.39 and 1.380, upped vcore till 1.350, but still instant bsod. Maybe the imc of the 10700k cant handle 4533 c16 dr ram.


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> i tried sa and io 1.39 and 1.380, upped vcore till 1.350, but still instant bsod. Maybe the imc of the 10700k cant handle 4533 c16 dr ram.


Maybe yes, which voltage on vccstg and vccst? Can it help increase mcpll (maybe wrong to write but you can understand what talk)?


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> i trying to stabilize 4533 c16 with gskill dr 2x16.........but it seems impossible due to imc limit, no matter voltages or settings i change, gsat gives me instant bsod. Anyone got ad advice? I got z490 unify with 10700k.
> View attachment 2568314


sa/io volt ?
Hmm nice numbers, but maybe you should put it all back and start over at higher MHZ ,ore ? these figures are too low


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


> sa/io volt ?


read my post

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

I have started playing with the PLL voltage, and then I will look at the PHC voltage afterwards, since auto is not good enough on auto, with all cores locked at the same speed, I can see that the PLL must exceed 1.2+ at 4.9GHZ, gives the right score in Cinebench, and gives low voltage to the cpu,also gives slightly more stable bandwidth on mem


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> read my post
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I have done that, but read the rest of what I write and see the photo


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


> I have done that, but read the rest of what I write and see the photo


how can you say those timings are too low? I am rock solid with those timings at 4400. And yes trefi must be maxed out to squeeze all the performance, i really don't understand why you guys run low trefi. And another thing you don't know: rtl iol are not too low because the motherboard set them with round trip latency enabled. You can't fix an instant bsod by changing timings.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> how can you say those timings are too low? I am rock solid with those timings at 4400. And yes trefi must be maxed out to squeeze all the performance, i really don't understand why you guys run low trefi. And another thing you don't know: rtl iol are not too low because the motherboard set them with round trip latency enabled. You can't fix an instant bsod by changing timings.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


there is a big jump in running 4300 to 4400 on my mem, so I can't imagine that it wouldn't change compared to 4400 and 4533,I had to start all over to get my mem to run 4400, you have to work for it


----------



## pipes

tREFI need to be more up possible 

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> tREFI need to be more up possible
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


with low trefi you lose lots of performances, really don't understand the reason. If you are unstable cause of high trefi, instead of lowering it and losing performances, tweak/up your voltages. That is a good tuning, not loosening timings (and losing performances).

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> with low trefi you lose lots of performances, really don't understand the reason. If you are unstable cause of high trefi, instead of lowering it and losing performances, tweak/up your voltages. That is a good tuning, not loosening timings (and losing performances).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk








How to Calculate tREFI?


As per title, how to actually set DRAM Refresh Intervals (tREFI)? Is there any formula to calculate this? Thanks in advanced.



rog.asus.com





tREFI works on the contrary, because it delays the updating of the bank. it seemed to me that this was the case, I had read somewhere else that greater tREFI means greater performance



Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> How to Calculate tREFI?
> 
> 
> As per title, how to actually set DRAM Refresh Intervals (tREFI)? Is there any formula to calculate this? Thanks in advanced.
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tREFI works on the contrary, because it delays the updating of the bank. it seemed to me that this was the case, I had read somewhere else that greater tREFI means greater performance
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


i told that, max trefi max performance. Viceversa for the other timings.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> with low trefi you lose lots of performances, really don't understand the reason. If you are unstable cause of high trefi, instead of lowering it and losing performances, tweak/up your voltages. That is a good tuning, not loosening timings (and losing performances).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


>


with max trefi you can see higher scores non only in sinthetic benchmark, but also in gaming banchmark. In rise of the tomb raider you can see how min and max improve. The problem is good users went to ddr5 and now you trolling the thread with your mediocre timings.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

nikolaus85 said:


> i trying to stabilize 4533 c16 with gskill dr 2x16.........but it seems impossible due to imc limit, no matter voltages or settings i change, gsat gives me instant bsod. Anyone got ad advice? I got z490 unify with 10700k.
> View attachment 2568314


Show us everything i hwinfo  
In the "old days" when I ran 4700c17 1t with 10900k, I used 1.5 VCCSA . Cooling the dimms helps ALOT too.


----------



## nikolaus85

Nizzen said:


> Show us everything i hwinfo
> In the "old days" when I ran 4700c17 1t with 10900k, I used 1.5 VCCSA . Cooling the dimms helps ALOT too.


hello Nizzen. It is such a pleasure to read you. I just tried 1.4 sa and 1.38 io for 4533 c16, since i just have air cooling and i am worried about chip degradation. I have 4400 c17 18 18 2x16 gskill, they have amazing pcb since i run them error free 4400 c16 17 17 34 full tuned timings with just rising a bit vref and they are perfectly fine at 50 degrees. When i get home i will post a screen of hwinfo. Maybe must need like 1.45 sa and 1.40 to avoid the bsod.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> with low trefi you lose lots of performances, really don't understand the reason. If you are unstable cause of high trefi, instead of lowering it and losing performances, tweak/up your voltages. That is a good tuning, not loosening timings (and losing performances).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I have no understand well sorry


----------



## SunnyStefan

nikolaus85 said:


> You can't fix an instant bsod by changing timings.


This is certainly false. Setting your timings too low by aggressively tightening them can _absolutely_ be the reason your PC is BSOD'n when running a stress test.


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> Show us everything i hwinfo
> In the "old days" when I ran 4700c17 1t with 10900k, I used 1.5 VCCSA . Cooling the dimms helps ALOT too.


the vccsa is related to the CPU and therefore increases heat inside the CPU. Does cooling the rams help with trfc, tREFI and stability?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## GeneO

pipes said:


> Does cooling the rams help with trfc, tREFI and stability?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Yes it does. There is lots of information about this in these forums and other easily found resources. You shoud do some googling and read about it. it is worth it if you are overclocking your memory.


----------



## nikolaus85

SunnyStefan said:


> This is certainly false. Setting your timings too low by aggressively tightening them can _absolutely_ be the reason your PC is BSOD'd when running a stress test.


and again. You can't fix instant bsod just relaxing timings, the prove is i relaxed them and didn't solve, as i told before. Do you guys read what i type or you just type random things? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> and again. You can't fix instant bsod just relaxing timings, the prove is i relaxed them and didn't solve, as i told before. Do you guys read what i type or you just type random things?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


if you get it, then rest your overclock
, and if you still get it, you have a hardware fault


----------



## nikolaus85

Martin v r said:


> if you get it, then rest your overclock
> , and if you still get it, you have a hardware fault


i will just ignore you, bye.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

@@nikolaus85 what solution do you have for ram cooling? aftermarket or custom?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> @@nikolaus85 what solution do you have for ram cooling? aftermarket or custom?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


buy good dims with temp sensors. I don't have any cooling form my rams and they are perfectly fine at 50 degrees.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> buy good dims with temp sensors. I don't have any cooling form my rams and they are perfectly fine at 50 degrees.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


my ram has no temperature sensor, which ram model do you have? when I had tried the gskill, in my case the rams did not exceed 45° celsiu

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> my ram has no temperature sensor, which ram model do you have? when I had tried the gskill, in my case the rams did not exceed 45° celsiu
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


i have gskill 4400 c17 18 18 2x16. 45 degrees is not bad.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> i have gskill 4400 c17 18 18 2x16. 45 degrees is not bad.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


They are trident or Ripjaws? With 1,50 voltage?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> They are trident or Ripjaws? With 1,50 voltage?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


ripjaws

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> ripjaws
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


what chip do they have on samsung ore Hynix ?


----------



## nikolaus85

Nizzen said:


> Show us everything i hwinfo
> In the "old days" when I ran 4700c17 1t with 10900k, I used 1.5 VCCSA . Cooling the dimms helps ALOT too.












ask me everything info you need. Thanks a lot.


----------



## pipes

My tREFI can get over 35000. Bad IC?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

after a week of testing, it has been a good time I have spent testing the Pll voltage, auto is just not a good idea, having it at 1.2+ v has given an advantage in several tests, and my PC has never been so stable,I don't know if there are more people who want to try to test it on their PC, but I think it's a good idea
advantage is that vcore can also be set down


----------



## TheHunter

Martin v r said:


> after a week of testing, it has been a good time I have spent testing the Pll voltage, auto is just not a good idea, having it at 1.2+ v has given an advantage in several tests, and my PC has never been so stable,I don't know if there are more people who want to try to test it on their PC, but I think it's a good idea
> advantage is that vcore can also be set down


What is pll voltage? What was the default value?


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> after a week of testing, it has been a good time I have spent testing the Pll voltage, auto is just not a good idea, having it at 1.2+ v has given an advantage in several tests, and my PC has never been so stable,I don't know if there are more people who want to try to test it on their PC, but I think it's a good idea
> advantage is that vcore can also be set down


good to know, for this week i will try it ... i'm still filing tREFI  i read that those voltages help in ln2 like vccst, but, i don't know, i don't think vccst and stg helped me a bit with l ram overclock

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> What is pll voltage? What was the default value?


0.9 to 1.1 on auto it is only for a standard cpu, without overclock


----------



## edkieferlp

Martin v r said:


> 0.9 to 1.1 on auto it is only for a standard cpu, without overclock


You talking about these?
These are from a TUF Z690 bios, stock is 0.900v

Core PLL Voltage [Auto]
GT PLL Voltage [Auto]
Ring PLL Voltage [Auto]
System Agent PLL Voltage [Auto]
Memory Controller PLL Voltage [Auto]


----------



## Martin v r

edkieferlp said:


> You talking about these?
> These are from a TUF Z690 bios, stock is 0.900v
> 
> Core PLL Voltage [Auto]
> GT PLL Voltage [Auto]
> Ring PLL Voltage [Auto]
> System Agent PLL Voltage [Auto]
> Memory Controller PLL Voltage [Auto]


*Core PLL Voltage [Auto] *


----------



## edkieferlp

Martin v r said:


> *Core PLL Voltage [Auto] *


did you notice any temp increase by raising, I see you mentioned you could lower Vcore but curious if a small bump on PLL if it affects temps at all?


----------



## Martin v r

to
*nikolaus85*
my mem can run 16-16-16-36 and tweak sub timing but att 4300MHZ
at 4400 I can in no way drive ´cl 16 ore up to 18. but at 19-19-19 they drive fine again, so it's just a question of whether you can pick up that loss there?
I have tried now as something new to set DLL Bandwith to 0 in the bios,and arrived at 1 is best, have to see if that solves anything

just an idea for you that there can be several reasons, and it is not your cpu that is the problem


----------



## Martin v r

edkieferlp said:


> did you notice any temp increase by raising, I see you mentioned you could lower Vcore but curious if a small bump on PLL if it affects temps at all?


yes, but not much got the temp down by 1/3c but probably because I can set vcore low now that it gets a little more Pll


----------



## pipes

my screenshot does not have a good quality but you can read the values of vcpll.
According to Intel, the vcpll limit appears to be 1.1 with a tolerance









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> to
> *nikolaus85*
> my mem can run 16-16-16-36 and tweak sub timing but att 4300MHZ
> at 4400 I can in no way drive ´cl 16 ore up to 18. but at 19-19-19 they drive fine again, so it's just a question of whether you can pick up that loss there?
> I have tried now as something new to set DLL Bandwith to 0 in the bios,and arrived at 1 is best, have to see if that solves anything
> 
> just an idea for you that there can be several reasons, and it is not your cpu that is the problem


My ram work fine at 4400 cl16-20-20-40 with almost everyone subtimungs setting, I can't down with tRP, tRAS and tRCD.
Have you setting vccpll, vccpll_oc vccst and vccstg?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> My ram work fine at 4400 cl16-20-20-40 with almost everyone subtimungs setting, I can't down with tRP, tRAS and tRCD.
> Have you setting vccpll, vccpll_oc vccst and vccstg?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


never touched these voltages. Just sa, io, ram voltage and vref.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> never touched these voltages. Just sa, io, ram voltage and vref.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I remember you said you set them but maybe I'm wrong. however in my opinion I have set them and it seems to give a slight stability


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> my screenshot does not have a good quality but you can read the values of vcpll.
> According to Intel, the vcpll limit appears to be 1.1 with a tolerance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


yes, but the one we go with vcore /mem ..at overclock, so why not do it at overclock whit Pll ?
vccpll_oc vccst and vccstg ,no, I don't have it now


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> yes, but the one we go with vcore /mem ..at overclock, so why not do it at overclock whit Pll ?
> vccpll_oc vccst and vccstg ,no, I don't have it now


sorry but my limit in english does not allow me to fully understand what you mean, did you speak you have to vccpll or other voltages? person my ignorance

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> sorry but my limit in english does not allow me to fully understand what you mean, did you speak you have to vccpll or other voltages? person my ignorance
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


 it okay ,PLL to vcore I set, and it means that I can get the vcore down, at the same overclock,, can also flatten the bandwidth little


----------



## Martin v r

Martin v r said:


> it okay ,PLL to vcore I set, and it means that I can get the vcore down, at the same overclock,, can also flatten the bandwidth little


----------



## pipes

anyone have a unify z490 and windows 11 can you kindly tell me if asrock timing reads the values well? I use version 4.0.13

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

had some problems with setting the subtimig, because I had set it all to 0 and have started from the beginning,forgot to set the nom to 34, as soon as I saw WR 80 nom 34 Park 48, I can set a good timing


----------



## Martin v r

how much volt can you give the B-die, is at 1.53v now att 4300MHZ cl 16-16-16-36


----------



## Martin v r

The little program above could tell me that my mem had an advantage at 100mv and 140 would be xtreme, can be found in Dram voltage Boost, then you can then start to put the voltage down again to mem,after setting it


----------



## TheHunter

Martin v r said:


> The little program above could tell me that my mem had an advantage at 100mv and 140 would be xtreme, can be found in Dram voltage Boost, then you can then start to put the voltage down again to mem,after setting it


Hi,

Where do you check it in typhoon burner?


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> Where do you check it in typhoon burner?


it could tell a lot about my mem,which I couldn't find elsewhere, it can also tell something about how good memes you have, but google it a bit, I did that myself to get wise about it, because I was looking for an answer that I couldn't google because the answer was there not, but this week I was able to get the voltage down by putting the PLL in the bios, and with the answer I couldn't find on a forum, get my voltage down on my mem from 1.53v to 1.45v at the same overclock

but the short answer was I wanted to be sure that they were B-die, man I also found other answers


----------



## Martin v r

wow he got a hig vassa volt,but a nice overclock


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> wow he got a hig vassa volt,but a nice overclock


I read 4700 frequency from her voltage

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> I read 4700 frequency from her voltage
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


may be a bug cpu-z says 4800 and asrock says 4788,but if the cpu is not locked to 100, then the answer lies there,
but now we are talking about Vassa volts at high voltages at high mhz, 1.4v+ ?


----------



## Nizzen

Martin v r said:


> wow he got a hig vassa volt,but a nice overclock


I used 1.52 vccsa/1.4vccio on 10900k and Apex on 4700c17 1t.


----------



## Martin v r

Nizzen said:


> I used 1.52 vccsa/1.4vccio on 10900k and Apex on 4700c17 1t.


it is high ?


----------



## Nizzen

Martin v r said:


> it is high ?


It was needed 

Pretty high, but who cares if it works 

10900k is worth under 12400f now. Go high, or go home 😎


----------



## Martin v r

Nizzen said:


> It was needed
> 
> Pretty high, but who cares if it works
> 
> 10900k is worth under 12400f now. Go high, or go home 😎


yes and there is a 2 year warranty on the cpu

remember I killed 7 x 3770k in 4 months, and went back to my 56x2600K


----------



## Nizzen

Martin v r said:


> yes and there is a 2 year warranty on the cpu


Here in Norway it's 5 by law 😎🤟


----------



## nikolaus85

Nizzen said:


> It was needed
> 
> Pretty high, but who cares if it works
> 
> 10900k is worth under 12400f now. Go high, or go home


how much vccsa does it need to stabilize 4533 c16 dr? will it kill my cpu? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> how much vccsa does it need to stabilize 4533 c16 dr? will it kill my cpu?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


if it has cooled well, then it is again danger `??


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> if it has cooled well, then it is again danger `??


Yes, degradation even cooled well is a thing on 14nm++++ with that high of a voltage. I'm not scared to push my chips, especially not a relatively old and cheap 10900K, but I don't go over 1.5v for 24/7. For benching I don't care. Just YOLO whatever is necessary.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Yes, degradation even cooled well is a thing on 14nm++++ with that high of a voltage. I'm not scared to push my chips, especially not a relatively old and cheap 10900K, but I don't go over 1.5v for 24/7. For benching I don't care. Just YOLO whatever is necessary.


i mean vccsa, not vcore. You think should be fine like 1.42-1.45 vccsa 24/7?

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> i mean vccsa, not vcore. You think should be fine like 1.42-1.45 vccsa 24/7?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


I mean SA as well lol. 1.45v is fine. I run up to 1.52v SA after vdroop that's 1.496v ish. Not more. vCore I don't care about. I have benched up to 1.72v on ambient water and I would've gone higher if it clocked any better.


----------



## pipes

does it make sense to bring the timings as low as possible? i'm bringing the rt / iol values as low as possible. I hope the question is clear

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Imprezzion said:


> I mean SA as well lol. 1.45v is fine. I run up to 1.52v SA after vdroop that's 1.496v ish. Not more. vCore I don't care about. I have benched up to 1.72v on ambient water and I would've gone higher if it clocked any better.


What vccio do have?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> i mean vccsa, not vcore. You think should be fine like 1.42-1.45 vccsa 24/7?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Tobvccsa is +- 5% as datasheet say

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

good results for my part, too bad the stability


----------



## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> What vccio do have?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


1.30v for 4400. 1.28v for 4266. Higher then 1.30v doesn't really help my OC at all so far so I don't go higher.

Btw guys, is it a problem if my RTL is 64/65/66/66/9/9/10/10? on a dual rank setup? So DIMM 0rank0 is 64, rank 1 65, the other dimm both 66. I'm not used to seeing 3 different numbers even tho they are within the general + - 2 rule.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> 1.30v for 4400. 1.28v for 4266. Higher then 1.30v doesn't really help my OC at all so far so I don't go higher.
> 
> Btw guys, is it a problem if my RTL is 64/65/66/66/9/9/10/10? on a dual rank setup? So DIMM 0rank0 is 64, rank 1 65, the other dimm both 66. I'm not used to seeing 3 different numbers even tho they are within the general + - 2 rule.


by setting this I was able to lower the voltage on my mem, and make them more stable, set it to 100 or 150


----------



## TheHunter

Is VCCIO2 at 1.35-1.37v considered "ok" and safe for 4400mhz 1.50v? VCCSA is at 1.20v



I have it like so now, final stable tweak and ODT wr 80, nom 40, park 48








also all in 60GB/s by intel mlc 










And I have to say higher tREFI atm 56220 really helped by overall stability, could lower tWR to 16 and tRTP 8, with tREFI 35138 it wasn't possible, also I noticed higher overall fps in games, stabler min fps in general, nothing serious but the difference was noticeable without fps counter.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> 1.30v for 4400. 1.28v for 4266. Higher then 1.30v doesn't really help my OC at all so far so I don't go higher.
> 
> Btw guys, is it a problem if my RTL is 64/65/66/66/9/9/10/10? on a dual rank setup? So DIMM 0rank0 is 64, rank 1 65, the other dimm both 66. I'm not used to seeing 3 different numbers even tho they are within the general + - 2 rule.


try setting same ODT for both channels and then disable and enable round trip latency.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> try setting same ODT for both channels and then disable and enable round trip latency.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


It won't train at all with round trip enabled. This is disabled manual RTL initials 68/1/1. If I use Round Trip Latency enabled it will do like 63/62/66/66/8/7/10/11 or weirdness like that. It never trains properly on 4400.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> It won't train at all with round trip enabled. This is disabled manual RTL initials 68/1/1. If I use Round Trip Latency enabled it will do like 63/62/66/66/8/7/10/11 or weirdness like that. It never trains properly on 4400.


try just setting primary timings and train with rtl enabled. Mine works like this. If does not work, check ODT and set them same way.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

stable with memtest hci and when I launch prime95 I crash within minutes

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## gabeomatic

Using this for my guest warzone build


http://imgur.com/a/4Yfxg2t

*8700k 51/49 HT on 0avx 1.38 bios 1.36v load (llc turbo)*
H80i gt v2 push pull (Chip not delidded yet)
Gigabyte Z390m Gaming *T-topology* board (using bios 6 as I noticed the newer ones required more voltage from the cpu, and its an 8th gen chip with a 9th gen board which was a gift from the cousin)
970 evo plus m2
*IO/SA 1.2/1.22* (should I aim for 1.25v at 4000+ for stability? Doing what I can to reduce heat)
*2x16gb Hynix Dual Rank 8-bit CJRs 3600 16-19-19-39 @ 3800 16-20-20-38 @ 1.4v*
No fans on them yet as I know they get dicey over 1.425v EDIT: Ordered this RAM cooler cooling fan ram memory cooler with dual 60mm fan PWM 1500-4000RPM | eBay cooler and will try 1.45-50v later on. I tried higher voltage's while gaming and the GPU will dump heat into the air and eventually cause the ram to fail even though it would bench alone fine.. so I've compensated a bit and changed my gpu fan from auto 
Trfc tested to high 400s, and trefi to 50k or so
TRDDS 4, TRDDL 6, Tfaw 16, TWR 12
Will work on IOLS now (should I aim for 6,7 or higher) Still a ram OC noob lol
This gives me like *44.5ns* latency with aida64 benchmark (although I can't find that version everyone else uses, assuming I have to pay but I think that one may net 2ns+ lower without anything running as I see a discrepancy between the two.


http://imgur.com/a/8mW6An6

Feel free to help me push this thing further! Should I am for 4000 @ c18s etc? CPU has been tested up to 52/50 at like 1.43v in bios which is on the higher end for this gen, maybe when I Delid I can try 5.3 @ 1.46-47+ if I can stay under 90c and I will be pairing this with an *EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3070* which I will put an UV curve on later. Any tips to push this sucker appreciated! Tested with testmem5 extreme/ absolut, forza 5 , warzone which can be OC killers, Geekbench, Cinebench, Cpu Z can post scores for reference. (I honestly don't plan on using prime as if it works for my use cases ill be happy) When continuing to test, how do I isolate if things come down to a board issue, ram issue, IMC issue etc? Any settings to mess with from first glance?
Thanks guys! Don't want to bottleneck the 3070s power and enjoy snappiness in general.


----------



## pipes

gabeomatic said:


> Using this for my guest warzone build
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/4Yfxg2t
> 
> *8700k 51/49 HT on 0avx 1.38 bios 1.36v load (llc turbo)*
> H80i gt v2 push pull (Chip not delidded yet)
> Gigabyte Z390m Gaming *T-topology* board (using bios 6 as I noticed the newer ones required more voltage from the cpu, and its an 8th gen chip with a 9th gen board which was a gift from the cousin)
> 970 evo plus m2
> *IO/SA 1.2/1.22* (should I aim for 1.25v at 4000+ for stability? Doing what I can to reduce heat)
> *2x16gb Hynix Dual Rank 8-bit CJRs 3600 16-19-19-39 @ 3800 16-20-20-38 @ 1.4v*
> No fans on them yet as I know they get dicey over 1.425v EDIT: Ordered this RAM cooler cooling fan ram memory cooler with dual 60mm fan PWM 1500-4000RPM | eBay cooler and will try 1.45-50v later on. I tried higher voltage's while gaming and the GPU will dump heat into the air and eventually cause the ram to fail even though it would bench alone fine.. so I've compensated a bit and changed my gpu fan from auto
> Trfc tested to high 400s, and trefi to 50k or so
> TRDDS 4, TRDDL 6, Tfaw 16, TWR 12
> Will work on IOLS now (should I aim for 6,7 or higher) Still a ram OC noob lol
> This gives me like *44.5ns* latency with aida64 benchmark (although I can't find that version everyone else uses, assuming I have to pay but I think that one may net 2ns+ lower without anything running as I see a discrepancy between the two.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/8mW6An6
> 
> Feel free to help me push this thing further! Should I am for 4000 @ c18s etc? CPU has been tested up to 52/50 at like 1.43v in bios which is on the higher end for this gen, maybe when I Delid I can try 5.3 @ 1.46-47+ if I can stay under 90c and I will be pairing this with an *EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3070* which I will put an UV curve on later. Any tips to push this sucker appreciated! Tested with testmem5 extreme/ absolut, forza 5 , warzone which can be OC killers, Geekbench, Cinebench, Cpu Z can post scores for reference. (I honestly don't plan on using prime as if it works for my use cases ill be happy) When continuing to test, how do I isolate if things come down to a board issue, ram issue, IMC issue etc? Any settings to mess with from first glance?
> Thanks guys! Don't want to bottleneck the 3070s power and enjoy snappiness in general.


if i can afford advice, buy it through aliexpress, if you haven't already bought it, it costs. much less that cooling per ram

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## gabeomatic

pipes said:


> if i can afford advice, buy it through aliexpress, if you haven't already bought it, it costs. much less that cooling per ram
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Thanks bro, I was able to score another listing which had one more for $44 shipped through ebay. Oh well!


----------



## Imprezzion

I had some real weird issues with my RAM OC being stable in TM5 1usmus (5 hours tested) but random crashing in games. At first I didn't expect it to be RAM as it tested fine but after I also had crashes with the CPU and GPU OC turned off but RAM OC left in place I started to suspect something was up. Turns out after hours of testing it was somehow related to tCKE being too low at 4. I still don't understand it but it hasn't crashed all evening after raising it to 7. I thought tCKE didn't do anything if PPD was off so I just set a random arbitrary value of 4. Can someone offer some insight how it could've caused these crashes? 

Also, on a second note, Round Trip Latency enabled still will not train properly at all at any ODT values while Round Trip Latency disabled trains fine. Off with manual initials of 68/1/1 trains fine at 66/66/66/66/10/10/9/9 every time. Can't go lower tho. Won't post with initials 67 or offset 22. Enabled trains something like 63/61/65/63/11/7/8/9 or something totally random like that even with auto initials. So strange. Not that the disabled values are bad by any means but from a different board and CPU I ran this RAM on I know it should train 64/64/65/65/6/6/7/7 fine on the frequency and timings I run. Still some kinks to iron out I guess but at least it's stable again and doesn't cause random crashes anymore. 

I run 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T @ 1.50v btw with 12 tWR, 6 tRTP, 16 tCWL, tRRD_s 4 tRRD_l 6, tFAW 16, all 7's for tertiaries with tWRRD's at 15, tWTR_s 2 tWTR_L 6. I can go down to 11 tWRRD's but I need to raise to 24 tFAW with trrd 6/6 and tWTR has to be raised to 8/4 for that to be stable at the same DRAM voltage. I can't go above 1.50v due to a heatwave here and I can only barely keep the DIMM's around 43-44c at 1.50v so any higher then say, 1.540v causes heat instability issues. And anything over 1.60v causes PCB crashes like error #4 in 1usmus in longer 1h+ runs.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> I had some real weird issues with my RAM OC being stable in TM5 1usmus (5 hours tested) but random crashing in games. At first I didn't expect it to be RAM as it tested fine but after I also had crashes with the CPU and GPU OC turned off but RAM OC left in place I started to suspect something was up. Turns out after hours of testing it was somehow related to tCKE being too low at 4. I still don't understand it but it hasn't crashed all evening after raising it to 7. I thought tCKE didn't do anything if PPD was off so I just set a random arbitrary value of 4. Can someone offer some insight how it could've caused these crashes?
> 
> Also, on a second note, Round Trip Latency enabled still will not train properly at all at any ODT values while Round Trip Latency disabled trains fine. Off with manual initials of 68/1/1 trains fine at 66/66/66/66/10/10/9/9 every time. Can't go lower tho. Won't post with initials 67 or offset 22. Enabled trains something like 63/61/65/63/11/7/8/9 or something totally random like that even with auto initials. So strange. Not that the disabled values are bad by any means but from a different board and CPU I ran this RAM on I know it should train 64/64/65/65/6/6/7/7 fine on the frequency and timings I run. Still some kinks to iron out I guess but at least it's stable again and doesn't cause random crashes anymore.
> 
> I run 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T @ 1.50v btw with 12 tWR, 6 tRTP, 16 tCWL, tRRD_s 4 tRRD_l 6, tFAW 16, all 7's for tertiaries with tWRRD's at 15, tWTR_s 2 tWTR_L 6. I can go down to 11 tWRRD's but I need to raise to 24 tFAW with trrd 6/6 and tWTR has to be raised to 8/4 for that to be stable at the same DRAM voltage. I can't go above 1.50v due to a heatwave here and I can only barely keep the DIMM's around 43-44c at 1.50v so any higher then say, 1.540v causes heat instability issues. And anything over 1.60v causes PCB crashes like error #4 in 1usmus in longer 1h+ runs.


try raising pll to 1.2-1.23v if you run with overclock on the cpu, helps the cpu and mem,another voltage setup that is not talked about much, which also helps your mems is Dram voltage Boost set it to mV + 100-150 
helps lower the voltage on the cpu/mem, and makes it more stable


----------



## ViTosS

Imprezzion said:


> I had some real weird issues with my RAM OC being stable in TM5 1usmus (5 hours tested) but random crashing in games. At first I didn't expect it to be RAM as it tested fine but after I also had crashes with the CPU and GPU OC turned off but RAM OC left in place I started to suspect something was up. Turns out after hours of testing it was somehow related to tCKE being too low at 4. I still don't understand it but it hasn't crashed all evening after raising it to 7. I thought tCKE didn't do anything if PPD was off so I just set a random arbitrary value of 4. Can someone offer some insight how it could've caused these crashes?
> 
> Also, on a second note, Round Trip Latency enabled still will not train properly at all at any ODT values while Round Trip Latency disabled trains fine. Off with manual initials of 68/1/1 trains fine at 66/66/66/66/10/10/9/9 every time. Can't go lower tho. Won't post with initials 67 or offset 22. Enabled trains something like 63/61/65/63/11/7/8/9 or something totally random like that even with auto initials. So strange. Not that the disabled values are bad by any means but from a different board and CPU I ran this RAM on I know it should train 64/64/65/65/6/6/7/7 fine on the frequency and timings I run. Still some kinks to iron out I guess but at least it's stable again and doesn't cause random crashes anymore.
> 
> I run 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T @ 1.50v btw with 12 tWR, 6 tRTP, 16 tCWL, tRRD_s 4 tRRD_l 6, tFAW 16, all 7's for tertiaries with tWRRD's at 15, tWTR_s 2 tWTR_L 6. I can go down to 11 tWRRD's but I need to raise to 24 tFAW with trrd 6/6 and tWTR has to be raised to 8/4 for that to be stable at the same DRAM voltage. I can't go above 1.50v due to a heatwave here and I can only barely keep the DIMM's around 43-44c at 1.50v so any higher then say, 1.540v causes heat instability issues. And anything over 1.60v causes PCB crashes like error #4 in 1usmus in longer 1h+ runs.


You don't turn off MRC_Fast Boot right? Because even knowing my OC is stable, if I change that from AUTO to DISABLED, there are some rare occasions where it boots with an improper train and results to errors in TM5, the solution was to let MRC_Fast Boot always ENABLED or AUTO so the board trains every boot/reboot. I was having OC passing TM5 and some days or weeks later getting errors, this way never had that happening again


----------



## GeneO

I have experienced the same thing, though I think you meant to say the opposite. Memory won't retrain with MRC fast boot enabled. 

The exception to this that I have observed is, if you have it enabled and you change a memory timing and restart saving changes, it must be training (based on the extra time it takes to post). So might as well leave it enabled.


----------



## pipes

What's option is? What name in Msi bios?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> I have experienced the same thing, though I think you meant to say the opposite. Memory won't retrain with MRC fast boot enabled.
> 
> The exception to this that I have observed is, if you have it enabled and you change a memory timing and restart saving changes, it must be training (based on the extra time it takes to post). So might as well leave it enabled.


I let it train on Auto and after it locks it in and persists across a few reboots to BIOS I disable MRC Fast Boot.

I haven't touched PLL voltages yet as I thought it mostly affected CPU OC and it's perfectly stable even in full AVX stress tests at 5.1 all core 4.8 cache @ 1.252v, 5.2 / 4.9 @ 1.334 and 5.3 / 5.0 at 1.420v so I never bothered as it's a pre binned golden sample SP86 chip.

IO 1.30v SA 1.41v (after droop under load 1.296v IO 1.376v SA).

EDIT: it does properly train with Round Trip Latency enabled on for example 4266 15-17-17-32-280-2T @ 1.61v (too hot for the summer) and my 1T profile at 3600 13-14-14-28-252-1T @ 1.55v but I don't really run this as overall performance is worse then 4266/4400. I did run this on the 11900K in Gear 1 obviously but since the 10900K doesn't have gears I don't really have a use for this. And the Maximus XIII Hero is a 4 DIMM board that doesn't do 1T above 3600 unfortunately. 

Trace centering is off in all of the above. Would it help to enable it?


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> I let it train on Auto and after it locks it in and persists across a few reboots to BIOS I disable MRC Fast Boot.
> 
> I haven't touched PLL voltages yet as I thought it mostly affected CPU OC and it's perfectly stable even in full AVX stress tests at 5.1 all core 4.8 cache @ 1.252v, 5.2 / 4.9 @ 1.334 and 5.3 / 5.0 at 1.420v so I never bothered as it's a pre binned golden sample SP86 chip.
> 
> IO 1.30v SA 1.41v (after droop under load 1.296v IO 1.376v SA).


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I let it train on Auto and after it locks it in and persists across a few reboots to BIOS I disable MRC Fast Boot.
> 
> I haven't touched PLL voltages yet as I thought it mostly affected CPU OC and it's perfectly stable even in full AVX stress tests at 5.1 all core 4.8 cache @ 1.252v, 5.2 / 4.9 @ 1.334 and 5.3 / 5.0 at 1.420v so I never bothered as it's a pre binned golden sample SP86 chip.
> 
> IO 1.30v SA 1.41v (after droop under load 1.296v IO 1.376v SA).
> 
> EDIT: it does properly train with Round Trip Latency enabled on for example 4266 15-17-17-32-280-2T @ 1.61v (too hot for the summer) and my 1T profile at 3600 13-14-14-28-252-1T @ 1.55v but I don't really run this as overall performance is worse then 4266/4400. I did run this on the 11900K in Gear 1 obviously but since the 10900K doesn't have gears I don't really have a use for this. And the Maximus XIII Hero is a 4 DIMM board that doesn't do 1T above 3600 unfortunately.
> 
> Trace centering is off in all of the above. Would it help to enable it?


is trace centering available in msi bios? which section? 

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> is trace centering available in msi bios? which section?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Don't know, I use ASUS now hehe.


----------



## ViTosS

GeneO said:


> I have experienced the same thing, though I think you meant to say the opposite. Memory won't retrain with MRC fast boot enabled.
> 
> The exception to this that I have observed is, if you have it enabled and you change a memory timing and restart saving changes, it must be training (based on the extra time it takes to post). So might as well leave it enabled.


Actually I thought that using it enabled or auto meant the memory would train every time certifying an stable boot/reboot and thought if I let it disabled like I used to do before, which lead me to instability, it would boot no matter what if it was a boot with or without success on the training part. But honestly never understood that right because doesn't the memory HAS to train every time you boot your PC regardless MRC Fast Boot?



Imprezzion said:


> I let it train on Auto and after it locks it in and persists across a few reboots to BIOS I disable MRC Fast Boot.


That what made my memory OC unstable, I used to do that, train with MRC Fast Boot AUTO (the mobo default) and then go and disable it, I could pass TM5 for few days, but suddently it would give me errors after some days, and letting MRC Fast Boot on AUTO fixed that 100% for me, I run TM5 every 1 week or so and never had the problem happening again.

Edit.: My bad, just checked BIOS, the option is called Memory Fast Boot (MSI BIOS) and there are 5 options: AUTO, ENABLED, DISABLED, NO TRAINING and SLOW TRAINING.

I remember now, I used to set it to NO TRAINING and now I let it on AUTO, it fixed for me using like this.


----------



## pipes

ViTosS said:


> Actually I thought that using it enabled or auto meant the memory would train every time certifying an stable boot/reboot and thought if I let it disabled like I used to do before, which lead me to instability, it would boot no matter what if it was a boot with or without success on the training part. But honestly never understood that right because doesn't the memory HAS to train every time you boot your PC regardless MRC Fast Boot?
> 
> 
> 
> That what made my memory OC unstable, I used to do that, train with MRC Fast Boot AUTO (the mobo default) and then go and disable it, I could pass TM5 for few days, but suddently it would give me errors after some days, and letting MRC Fast Boot on AUTO fixed that 100% for me, I run TM5 every 1 week or so and never had the problem happening again.
> 
> Edit.: My bad, just checked BIOS, the option is called Memory Fast Boot (MSI BIOS) and there are 5 options: AUTO, ENABLED, DISABLED, NO TRAINING and SLOW TRAINING.
> 
> I remember now, I used to set it to NO TRAINING and now I let it on AUTO, it fixed for me using like this.


What option is mrc fast boot?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

I sold my patriots which, after all, did not behave badly, any advice on which ones to buy?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## ViTosS

pipes said:


> What option is mrc fast boot?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


It's Memory Fast Boot, under Advanced DRAM Configuration on MSI BIOS.


----------



## TheHunter

mine acutally started to spit errors if i left at auto, so next time it trained properly, i rebooted and set to mrc fast boot - enabled and that was it.



nikolaus85 said:


> is trace centering available in msi bios? which section?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


Yes, i think somewhere in the middle of the training list.


----------



## pipes

@nikolaus85 if you want and / or time, you could kindly take a screenshot of thaiphoon burner of your ram?
Thanks in advanced

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## nikolaus85

pipes said:


> @nikolaus85 if you want and / or time, you could kindly take a screenshot of thaiphoon burner of your ram?
> Thanks in advanced
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


i am not at home now. My ram are ripjaws 2x16 4400 c17 18 18.

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bang_bang

hi, i'm looking for help with troubleshooting memory errors on default XMP profile.

motherboard: EVGA z490 dark kingpin
cpu: 10900k (default/no overclock)
memory: F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB
test: TM5.exe with Extreme1 @anta777

stable (clean/no errors) when dropping frequency to 4100.
stable with my alternate kit, F4-4400C16D-16GVK

i would appreciate any feedback/suggestions.

edit:
Customize: Extreme1 @anta777
Start testing at 17:37, 1.4Gb x20
Error in test #7 through 9m 39s.


----------



## pipes

nikolaus85 said:


> i am not at home now. My ram are ripjaws 2x16 4400 c17 18 18.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


yes yes I knew but I was interested in knowing the SPD revision if it was 1.1 or 1.0.
Thanks

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

YellowBull said:


> hi, i'm looking for help with troubleshooting memory errors on default XMP profile.
> 
> motherboard: EVGA z490 dark kingpin
> cpu: 10900k (default/no overclock)
> memory: F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB
> test: TM5.exe with Extreme1 @anta777
> 
> i am stable (clean/no errors) when dropping frequency to 4100.
> i am stable with my alternate kit, F4-4400C16D-16GVK
> 
> i would greatly appreciate any feedback/suggestions.
> thank you
> 
> quick edit: I found:
> "Error 0 refresh stable error = voltage cutoff choke"
> 
> does this indicate an issue with how my motherboard is handling voltage ?
> 
> View attachment 2569393


sa ? voltage 
as on most Z490 motherboards, there is a huge jump in the volts after 4200MHZ in the sa volts


----------



## Martin v r

hmm I did a little test today on my motherboard, as I wanted to have my sa volt down, it has not been possible to go beyond 1.38v at 4300MHZ
But it seems that by raising the IO volt and PCH voltage, something happens, sa volt wants to overvolt on my motherboard.
so if the SA and IO voltages are the same, the SA voltage can be brought down, and the PCH voltage is set to 1.1v

if I went down to 1.37v with sa, then I could not get life in my mem, but at 1.38v I had no problems, but by driving the same volts on SA/IO, I can now drive 1.34v with sa, test a little further and see if I can get further down


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> hmm I did a little test today on my motherboard, as I wanted to have my sa volt down, it has not been possible to go beyond 1.38v at 4300MHZ
> But it seems that by raising the IO volt and PHC voltage, something happens, sa volt wants to overvolt on my motherboard.
> so if the SA and IO voltages are the same, the SA voltage can be brought down, and the PHC voltage is set to 1.1v
> 
> if I went down to 1.37v with sa, then I could not get life in my mem, but at 1.38v I had no problems, but by driving the same volts on SA/IO, I can now drive 1.34v with sa, test a little further and see if I can get further down


Interesting, what phc voltage talk about you?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

No body using this ram model? F4 – 4400 C19d 16gtzkk 



Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> No body using this ram model? F4 – 4400 C19d 16gtzkk
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I have 2 sets and both not very good.

It really is lotto/luck. Buy the best bin you can. 3600c14 and 4000c16-16-16 will be very good unless going for much more expensive bins , like 4000c14 or 4800c17 for 2x8 kits.


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> Interesting, what phc voltage talk about you?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Sorry have corrected it to PCH ,but it works really well that SA/IO run the same voltage,it brought my sa volt down


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> Sorry have corrected it to PCH ,but it works really well that SA/IO run the same voltage,it brought my sa volt down


But did you use Msi or other board? 
maybe I know but I forget always

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> But did you use Msi or other board?
> maybe I know but I forget always
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


MSI MAG Z490 TOMAHAWK

have put my xtreme overclock on hold for a bit, put my pot in the basement, so right now I only have 1 motherboard, have sold my test board
my hobby was unlocking the GPU bios for the xtreme, but Nividia has closed it, and AMD you can still do a bit of magic with it, but not as much as in the past


----------



## robalm

bscool said:


> I have 2 sets and both not very good.
> 
> It really is lotto/luck. Buy the best bin you can. 3600c14 and 4000c16-16-16 will be very good unless going for much more expensive bins , like 4000c14 or 4800c17 for 2x8 kits.


Thats right.
Just got the gskill 4000mhz cl 16-16 dual rank and so far for quick benchmark it is almost as good as my best single rank b-dies.


----------



## The Pook

pipes said:


> maybe I know but I forget always


----------



## pipes

have none of you tried these ram? F4-5333C22D-16GVK I found them for 140 € it's a good price...I think 

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> have none of you tried these ram? F4-5333C22D-16GVK I found them for 140 € it's a good price...I think
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Yeah I have them, good for z590 gear 2 I wouldnt recommend them though especially on z490. Just get b die SR or DR and be done with it. 3600c14 or 4000c16 will be about as good as it gets.

Unless you just like to play around and buy tons of ram to test out. Which i did, bought probably 3 dozen sr and dr kits over the last few years and outside of really good or really bad kits they are all pretty close for samsung B die.


----------



## pipes

bscool said:


> Yeah I have them, good for z590 gear 2 I wouldnt recommend them though especially on z490. Just get b die SR or DR and be done with it. 3600c14 or 4000c16 will be about as good as it gets.
> 
> Unless you just like to play around and buy tons of ram to test out. Which i did, bought probably 3 dozen sr and dr kits over the last few years and outside of really good or really bad kits they are all pretty close for samsung B die.


have you also tried these models 3200c14? I'm behind evaluating inexpensive ram modules to replace. thank you very much for the info

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> have you also tried these models 3200c14? I'm behind evaluating inexpensive ram modules to replace. thank you very much for the info
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Yeah have had quite a few pairs of 3200c14 SR and DR. They are ok but the 4000c16-16-16 are a fair amount better.

Usually the price will somewhat reflect the bin. The more they are the better the bin. That is why 3200c14 is usually one of the cheaper bins and unless you want to buy 20 kits to bin to find that one really good kit of 3200c14 better to just buy 4000c16-16-16.


----------



## bang_bang

Martin v r said:


> sa ? voltage
> as on most Z490 motherboards, there is a huge jump in the volts after 4200MHZ in the sa volts


VSA is set to 1.400


----------



## Martin v r

YellowBull said:


> I updated my original post to include a screenshot.
> VSA is set to 1.400 (I see 1.426)


do you have volt setup for io ?? for if you have, you can put them to the same, and bring it down


----------



## bang_bang

Martin v r said:


> do you have volt setup for io ?? for if you have, you can put them to the same, and bring it down


i tried both set to 1.4 and still take errors. thoughts?
Extreme1 @anta777
Error in test #7 through 9m 39s.


----------



## Martin v r

YellowBull said:


> I tried setting both to 1.4 (my attached picture will show 1.350 for VCCIO) and still take errors. Any thoughts?
> Extreme1 @anta777
> Error in test #7 through 9m 39s.
> 
> I'm tempted to buy the same kit in the non-rgb version. I don't care at all about RGB but the non-rgb wasn't in stock when I purchased the F4-4266C17D-32GTRSB
> 
> View attachment 2569681
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569680


did you remember to update the bios to the latest, always have the correct performance 
it always requires a few restarts, as the bios doesn't always give it, so they write, so sometimes you have to give less or more before it fits, my MSI does it too


----------



## bang_bang

Martin v r said:


> did you remember to update the bios to the latest, always have the correct performance
> it always requires a few restarts, as the bios doesn't always give it, so they write, so sometimes you have to give less or more before it fits, my MSI does it too


Yes, good reminder. I'm on the latest BIOS from EVGA (v1.11).


----------



## Martin v r

bang_bang said:


> Yes, good reminder. I'm on the latest BIOS from EVGA (v1.11).


cpu voltage offset vs fixed ?have you tried with fixed, could be a solution
can see you have turned off xteme volt


----------



## bang_bang

Martin v r said:


> cpu voltage offset vs fixed ?have you tried with fixed, could be a solution
> can see you have turned off xteme volt


i appreciate your help. Unfortunately, setting CPU overclock does not resolve (XMP) memory errors.

when only adjusting frequency, 4100mhz is clean. 4133mhz takes errors. XMP profile is 4267mhz. im unsure if this is a fault of my RAM / CPU / Motherboard. EVGA and GSKILL lists the RAM kit as compatible.

again thank you for your suggestions. ill update the thread if i figure it out.


----------



## bscool

bang_bang said:


> Yes, good reminder. I'm on the latest BIOS from EVGA (v1.11).


Sometimes the latest bios is not always the best. On z490 many times the newer bios have optimiaztions for 11th gen cpus so trying older bios might work better if using 10th gen cpu in z490 MB.

Find a bios prior to 11th gen cpu release.

In this video he is using 1.07 for DR b die, 

1.08 and 1.09 should be pre 11th gen also.


----------



## pipes

now that i have sold the patriot i am eating my hands, if only to say the least, for sending back the f4-4800c17d-16gvk ... for 130 € a great deal

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> now that i have sold the patriot i am eating my hands, if only to say the least, for sending back the f4-4800c17d-16gvk ... for 130 € a great deal
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


You got the 4800c17 for 130, that is a crazy deal 🙃

Was that new or used?


----------



## pipes

bscool said:


> You got the 4800c17 for 130, that is a crazy deal
> 
> Was that new or used?


Used
That is my bad choice


----------



## Imprezzion

What is the most efficient memory speed to run on a 10900K? I can recall there being something with the 100:100 vs 100:133 dividers and optimal ratios for stability or is that just for the 11th gen and up with the gears and not for 10th gen?

I'm trying to set up a more "safe" and lower temperature / volt OC due to hot summers and not wanting to pump to much heat into my room. Temperature wise my loop can easily handle even 5.3 all core with 4400 memory at high IO/SA but I want a lower more efficient OC profile. CPU is now on AI OC at 54x2, 53x3, 52x5, 51x10 and 4.7 cache which needs only 1.225v for AVX2 all core Prime95 stability. Obviously I don't wanna have to run 1.42v SA 1.35v IO on this so 4400 tight is out of the question on this profile.

So, what should I shoot for. 4200, 4266 or even a bit lower like 4133? Timings whatever it'll do around 1.45-1.48v DRAM?


----------



## bang_bang

bscool said:


> Sometimes the latest bios is not always the best. On z490 many times the newer bios have optimiaztions for 11th gen cpus so trying older bios might work better if using 10th gen cpu in z490 MB.
> 
> Find a bios prior to 11th gen cpu release.
> 
> In this video he is using 1.07 for DR b die,
> 
> 1.08 and 1.09 should be pre 11th gen also.


good suggestion. I tried version 1.07 and receive same results.


----------



## bscool

bang_bang said:


> good suggestion, thank you. I tried version 1.07 (even on middle bios option/switch like Luumi) and receive same results.
> View attachment 2569774


What are your temps hitting, do you have a fan on the memory or water cooled?

Unless you got a weak kit or dim. Maybe test 1 stick at a time to see if one can pass and one not. Use slot 2( farthest away from CPU) for tesing it is usually better.


----------



## pipes

@bscool have you never tried Samsung a-due modules?
Like these: SAMSUNG 16GB DDR4 3200MHz Desktop RAM 1Rx8 PC4-3200AA-UA3-11 M378A2G43AB3-CWE | eBay

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> @bscool have you never tried Samsung a-due modules?
> Like these: SAMSUNG 16GB DDR4 3200MHz Desktop RAM 1Rx8 PC4-3200AA-UA3-11 M378A2G43AB3-CWE | eBay
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


No never tried anything like that or OEM or whatever they are called.


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> @bscool have you never tried Samsung a-due modules?
> Like these: SAMSUNG 16GB DDR4 3200MHz Desktop RAM 1Rx8 PC4-3200AA-UA3-11 M378A2G43AB3-CWE | eBay
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


has anyone ever had experiences with these rams?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

bang_bang said:


> good suggestion, thank you. I tried version 1.07 (even on middle bios option/switch like Luumi) and receive same results.
> View attachment 2569774


Use the 1usmus config and diagnose the memory issues with this spreadsheet.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, it ain't anything flashy or special but it is a very power and temperature efficient OC. Have to tweak the tertiaries further, some can probably go lower then 7's and I might by able to sneak 11's or 10's out of the tRDWR's if it allows it with this low of a DRAM voltage. It still has decent scores in AIDA64. Around 62GB read, 63GB write, 61GB copy and low 38's latency. Shame this 10900K needs this much IO/SA tho. Would've loved to drop it further but it wouldn't pass Prime95 Large FFT AVX enabled with any less. 










I am very pleasantly surprised by ASUS AI OC actually. The CPU is running fully on AI OC now with only cache set manually and the clocks and voltages are absolutely bang on what it needs in my manual testing on static all core frequencies. It does select a tad loose of an LLC / AC/DC loadline which I normally don't like as it has a tad high vdroop in AVX loads for my taste but it remained stable throughout stress testing with several different tools and it never once went to any "unsafe" values. It runs 54x2, 53x3, 52x5, 51x10 and never let it get above 75c even in Prime95 Small FFT AVX enabled at over 300w load and sustained 5.1Ghz all core throughout the whole test. This way it also retains the preferred cores for single thread loads and properly balances the loads and clocks for the given cores. CPU-Z single thread bench nicely shows my 2 preferred cores going to 5.4 while the rest stays around 5.1-5.2 as it should.


----------



## SunnyStefan

Imprezzion said:


> It does select a tad loose of an LLC / AC/DC loadline which I normally don't like as it has a tad high vdroop in AVX loads for my taste but it remained stable throughout stress testing with several different tools and it never once went to any "unsafe" values. It runs 54x2, 53x3, 52x5, 51x10 and never let it get above 75c even in Prime95 Small FFT AVX enabled at over 300w load and sustained 5.1Ghz all core throughout the whole test.


Vdroop is good, you want *as much* vdroop as possible without becoming unstable. Can you see the actual values that Asus AI OC sets for LLC / AC / DC, or are you just observing the difference between idle and load CPU Vcore readings in HWiNFO64? How low does your Vcore drop under load in something like prime95, y-cruncher, or linpack? At a glance, your 10900K OC looks similar to mine.


----------



## Imprezzion

SunnyStefan said:


> Vdroop is good, you want *as much* vdroop as possible without becoming unstable. Can you see the actual values that Asus AI OC sets for LLC / AC / DC, or are you just observing the difference between idle and load CPU Vcore readings in HWiNFO64? How low does your Vcore drop under load in something like prime95, y-cruncher, or linpack? At a glance, your 10900K OC looks similar to mine.


I can read them from HWINFO64 if I turn on the value for it. It's using LLC 4 with Trained SVID so it should be AC 0.01 DC 1.00 but that's a guess.

It drops from die sense 1.304v to 1.225v in p95/y-cruncher with AVX. Without AVX it's around 1.238v.

When I run a manual all core OC with V/F Curve I run LLC6, AC 0.01, DC 0.43. This reduces droop quite a lot so it only goes down to 1.264v from 1.304v meaning I can run a higher offset and less idle / low load voltage.


----------



## pipes

Hard to reach high frequency with d-die 4x4 GB

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

it's crazy how high SA/IO volts are needed for over 4300MHZ, I'm here with my 10600K and as soon as I say 4400MHZ it wants to have 1.4v, if so I try to do magic with low sub, it makes no difference
have also tried if it would help with my boy mem in, a set of Ballistix 4400MHZ CL19 2x16GB 32GB Kit, but again it's the same I run into 1.4v
anyone have some numbers on sa/io with 11X00K ? for with 12X00K run with low SA/IO volts


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> it's crazy how high SA/IO volts are needed for over 4300MHZ, I'm here with my 10600K and as soon as I say 4400MHZ it wants to have 1.4v, if so I try to do magic with low sub, it makes no difference
> have also tried if it would help with my boy mem in, a set of Ballistix 4400MHZ CL19 2x16GB 32GB Kit, but again it's the same I run into 1.4v
> anyone have some numbers on sa/io with 11X00K ? for with 12X00K run with low SA/IO volts


the vccsa is given for 1.52v maximum









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, yesterday was the first evening I was actually able to play an entire evening of Division 2 and Planetside 2 without random crashes so my new RAM OC setup works. Still weird as my previous setup also passed 5+ hours of TM5 and many other stress tests just fine but k.

So, I'm now on a very conservative 4133Mhzbwuth below timings and voltages. 










What is the next step timing wise to optimize this further without having to raise DRAM/SA/IO voltages? DIMM's stayed around 36c now but that is with no side panel, a 120mm 1200RPM fan blowing on them and the A/C at full blast. Add an easy 10-12c to that easily with the side panel closed and the A/C at a more reasonable temperature and that means I can't really run any more DRAM voltage in this hot summer weather and stay below ~48c at which point they become very unstable. 

I wanna try and tweak some of the tertiaries to go below 7's or maybe 11 or 10 tWRRD's but I don't know how much of an impact that will have on DRAM Voltage requirements.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> Well, yesterday was the first evening I was actually able to play an entire evening of Division 2 and Planetside 2 without random crashes so my new RAM OC setup works. Still weird as my previous setup also passed 5+ hours of TM5 and many other stress tests just fine but k.
> 
> So, I'm now on a very conservative 4133Mhzbwuth below timings and voltages.
> 
> View attachment 2569910
> 
> 
> What is the next step timing wise to optimize this further without having to raise DRAM/SA/IO voltages? DIMM's stayed around 36c now but that is with no side panel, a 120mm 1200RPM fan blowing on them and the A/C at full blast. Add an easy 10-12c to that easily with the side panel closed and the A/C at a more reasonable temperature and that means I can't really run any more DRAM voltage in this hot summer weather and stay below ~48c at which point they become very unstable.
> 
> I wanna try and tweak some of the tertiaries to go below 7's or maybe 11 or 10 tWRRD's but I don't know how much of an impact that will have on DRAM Voltage requirements.


run 1.36 on sa an io, 4300MHZ 1.5v very close to the sub timing you have but now mine is also only 2x8GB sticks


----------



## The Pook

Imprezzion said:


> Well, yesterday was the first evening I was actually able to play an entire evening of Division 2 and Planetside 2 without random crashes so my new RAM OC setup works. Still weird as my previous setup also passed 5+ hours of TM5 and many other stress tests just fine but k.
> 
> So, I'm now on a very conservative 4133Mhzbwuth below timings and voltages.
> 
> View attachment 2569910
> 
> 
> What is the next step timing wise to optimize this further without having to raise DRAM/SA/IO voltages? DIMM's stayed around 36c now but that is with no side panel, a 120mm 1200RPM fan blowing on them and the A/C at full blast. Add an easy 10-12c to that easily with the side panel closed and the A/C at a more reasonable temperature and that means I can't really run any more DRAM voltage in this hot summer weather and stay below ~48c at which point they become very unstable.
> 
> I wanna try and tweak some of the tertiaries to go below 7's or maybe 11 or 10 tWRRD's but I don't know how much of an impact that will have on DRAM Voltage requirements.


did you try relaxing TWR? other than TWR your timings are pretty mild, you shouldn't be that temperature sensitive. 

I'm running warmer just dicking around on the interwebs and I go deep into the 50s while gaming. I don't have issues.


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> did you try relaxing TWR? other than TWR your timings are pretty mild, you shouldn't be that temperature sensitive.
> 
> I'm running warmer just dicking around on the interwebs and I go deep into the 50s while gaming. I don't have issues.
> 
> View attachment 2569949
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569948


Actually I haven't tried that yet no. My normal profile is 4400 17-17-17-36-340-2T with 12 tWR as well at 1.540v or 4266 15-17-17-34-280-2T at 1.61v with 10 tWR. And those are horribly temp sensitive and are impossible to run in these ambients with the side panel on. The fan helps but since my front rad is a 420mm Nemesis GTX with both the CPU and GPU in the loop it pushes a LOT of hot air directly into the RAM area so the fan is just recycling hot air at that point. I do have a second 240mm GTX as top outtake but that is behind the RAM area so the hot air still passes over it regardless.

Your tertiaries like tRDRD and tWRRD are quite a lot tighter then mine tho. I will test a higher tWR with maybe tighter tertiaries and see how that behaves.

There is one rather simple solution to this though. Slap a waterblock on the RAM as well.. hmm.. that's an idea..


----------



## TheHunter

Martin v r said:


> it's crazy how high SA/IO volts are needed for over 4300MHZ, I'm here with my 10600K and as soon as I say 4400MHZ it wants to have 1.4v, if so I try to do magic with low sub, it makes no difference
> have also tried if it would help with my boy mem in, a set of Ballistix 4400MHZ CL19 2x16GB 32GB Kit, but again it's the same I run into 1.4v
> anyone have some numbers on sa/io with 11X00K ? for with 12X00K run with low SA/IO volts


My 11700kf needs this for 4400, but i need at least 15-16 for turnarounds and the larger turnaround needs to be auto to be stable at stock ram volts

Sa ~1.225v
IO2 ~1.37V

For 3600mhz it wants this

Sa 1.30v
Io2 1.30v

I use to be able to run 2x8gb kit 3733
Sa 1.37v
Io2 1.22v

Now with this 2x16gb kit no go, guess i need even more SA?


----------



## Martin v r

TheHunter said:


> My 11700kf needs this for 4400, but i need at least 15-16 for turnarounds and the larger turnaround needs to be auto to be stable at stock ram volts
> 
> Sa ~1.225v
> IO2 ~1.37V
> 
> For 3600mhz it wants this
> 
> Sa 1.30v
> Io2 1.30v
> 
> I use to be able to run 2x8gb kit 3733
> Sa 1.37v
> Io2 1.22v
> 
> Now with this 2x16gb kit no go, guess i need even more SA?


yes ,from 1,35 to ? I use on 4300 MHZ 1,35v on sa/io, but if I set io lower,i ned more sa vottage


----------



## tps3443

Hey everyone, just an update I have been running a Z590 Dark motherboard since it first launched, well the EVGA Z590 Dark 1.08 bios drastically improved memory overclocking stability and performance.

I have always ran 4000CL14 Gear (1) with my 11900K using 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinums 3600CL14 sticks. However, now I can run 1T command rate at 4000CL14

With really low RTL’s as well 58/58/59/59.

1.08 bios has made a nice improvement for memory overclocking and stability.

I am running 2x16GB at 4000cl14 with 1T command rate. ^ That’s pretty impressive. The previous bios would not stabilize 1T, and needed much higher RTL’s of like 61/61/61/61.


This is my setup. Anyways, if your on Z590 Dark, or probably even Z590 FTW. I’d highly recommend bios 1.08 and reconfigure your memory and timings.


----------



## ViTosS

Well after so many months without BSOD or errors with memory in stress test, I had two weird BSOD's, one was IRQL Not Less Equal and the other showed no BSOD, went straight to hard lock and reboot, but in event logger viewer showed something related to page file, so I think both are related to RAM, I honestly have no idea what would cause that, RAM and CPU are completely stable through many stress tests, but I suspect the Memory Fast Boot option which I left always on AUTO is tricking me, I changed now to ENABLED, but is ENABLED the correct setting? Should I set it to DISABLED or SLOW TRAINING? Because in the past I had this setting at NO TRAINING and got errors sometimes after a while of rebooting/booting the PC.


----------



## Martin v r

ok, been messing with it.
the problem of high MHZ, which can cause problems
RTL CHA too low
TRDWR sg/dg too low
volts to SA/IO + mem too low

but I have given up running my mem more than 4300MHZ? I don't know if it's my mem or the bios, because the performance drops at 4400MHZ so much that I can't get it anywhere


----------



## Martin v r

tps3443 said:


> Hey everyone, just an update I have been running a Z590 Dark motherboard since it first launched, well the EVGA Z590 Dark 1.08 bios drastically improved memory overclocking stability and performance.
> 
> I have always ran 4000CL14 Gear (1) with my 11900K using 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinums 3600CL14 sticks. However, now I can run 1T command rate at 4000CL14
> 
> With really low RTL’s as well 58/58/59/59.
> 
> 1.08 bios has made a nice improvement for memory overclocking and stability.
> 
> I am running 2x16GB at 4000cl14 with 1T command rate. ^ That’s pretty impressive. The previous bios would not stabilize 1T, and needed much higher RTL’s of like 61/61/61/61.
> 
> 
> This is my setup. Anyways, if your on Z590 Dark, or probably even Z590 FTW. I’d highly recommend bios 1.08 and reconfigure your memory and timings.
> 
> View attachment 2570040
> 
> View attachment 2570044
> 
> View attachment 2570043
> 
> View attachment 2570042
> 
> View attachment 2570041


you don't have heat problems


----------



## pipes

I got the f4-4400c17d-gvk today, does it make sense to try the maximum frequency with cmd rate 1N? i was trying with 16-20-20-40 1n @ 1.35 but not even at 3000 i can start. your results would be appreciated, thanks!

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> I got the f4-4400c17d-gvk today, does it make sense to try the maximum frequency with cmd rate 1N? i was trying with 16-20-20-40 1n @ 1.35 but not even at 3000 i can start. your results would be appreciated, thanks!
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I never had much luck trying to run 1t on 4 dim z490 MB usually had to run at lower clock than 2t.

When I had z490 Unify with 2x8 [email protected] is what I got stable. High clocks 1t is easier to do on 2 dim MB like Apex and Unify X those will do 4533 plus 1t with 2x8.


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> I got the f4-4400c17d-gvk today, does it make sense to try the maximum frequency with cmd rate 1N? i was trying with 16-20-20-40 1n @ 1.35 but not even at 3000 i can start. your results would be appreciated, thanks!
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


You can grab a used Z490 Dark KP for like $250, or even a brand new Z590 Dark for $300 bucks with a coupon. The 90 degree socket is excellent for keeping memory cool. (These boards were originally like $600 dollars) so it’s really not all that bad of a deal.

I own both, and they can do some great things with memory overclocking. Z590 Dark is excellent with 10th Gen now as well, since EVGA has since updated the bios and added the option to disable memory PPD, and also the ability to disable VMAX Stress.

I had a G.Skill 4000CL15 kit at like DDR 5200Mhz for benching on the Z490 Dark KP. It was lots of fun. I’ve been stuck on (2) DIMM motherboards since.

Regardless of what fancy new stuff is available, the elite parts from prior generations are always fun to play with especially for getting in to hard core overclocking or LN2 whatever cooling it may be.


----------



## pipes

in Italy we are used to other prices

EVGA Z590 scuro, 121-RL-E599-KR, LGA 1200, Intel Z590, PCIe Gen4, SATA 6Gb/s, LAN 2.5Gb/s, WiFi6/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, scheda madre Intel https://amzn.eu/d/gS2lMvM


----------



## pipes

i noticed that despite being labeled by g.skill as february '22 these rams have the spd revision at 1.0

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> in Italy we are used to other prices
> 
> EVGA Z590 scuro, 121-RL-E599-KR, LGA 1200, Intel Z590, PCIe Gen4, SATA 6Gb/s, LAN 2.5Gb/s, WiFi6/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, scheda madre Intel https://amzn.eu/d/gS2lMvM


Hey, you need someone trust worthy to purchase hardware for you, and then mail it to you. That’s what I always Recommend.


----------



## pipes

I'm not lucky from that point of view

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

I was not lucky in my last experience with Evga motherboards. I bought a x99 classified, I kept it 3 months or so, I switched to the gigabyte x99 soc champion. moral? the guy I sold it to told me I know it broke after less than a month, I kept the gigabyte for 5 years

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk



pipes said:


> i noticed that despite being labeled by g.skill as february '22 these rams have the spd revision at 1.0
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

Now I've tried setting sa to 1.5v/ mem to 1.6v and they just won't go over 4400MHZ high cl
so it can only be 3 things cpu or bios, or my mem just doesn't want more than that


----------



## pipes

The values of channel B are higher than channel A









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## chocolates

hey all, new to this forum and relatively new to overclocking (have done mild undervolting and overclocking experiments in the past with gpus/cpus, but never memory til recently)

purchased a pretty decent kit of b-die (3600 14-15-15-35 @ 1.35v)

my cpu/mobo is i5-12600k / msi z690-a pro ddr4, and my voltages are 1.35 vccsa and 1.5 dram. cpu is all stock.

i can do up to 3733 with tight timings, but oddly enough cannot do 3800 without errors even with very loose timings, and nothing pas 3800 boots at all (neither 3866, 3900, nor 4000). 3000 mostly brings up cpu errors according to OCCT

i'm guessing this is an imc issue? granted, i don't think i care enough to hit higher frequencies based on what i've seen comparing the actual performance difference of a couple hundred mt/s but i'm curious as to why i would be struggling so much with the frequency. some friendly folk at the overclocking discord told me it was most likely to be an exceptionally poorly binned imc but others told me it could be other issues (motherboard or bios settings)

is it worth picking up another i5-12600k or going up to the 12700k to get a better imc?


----------



## bscool

chocolates said:


> hey all, new to this forum and relatively new to overclocking (have done mild undervolting and overclocking experiments in the past with gpus/cpus, but never memory til recently)
> 
> purchased a pretty decent kit of b-die (3600 14-15-15-35 @ 1.35v)
> 
> my cpu/mobo is i5-12600k / msi z690-a pro ddr4, and my voltages are 1.35 vccsa and 1.5 dram. cpu is all stock.
> 
> i can do up to 3733 with tight timings, but oddly enough cannot do 3800 without errors even with very loose timings, and nothing pas 3800 boots at all (neither 3866, 3900, nor 4000). 3000 mostly brings up cpu errors according to OCCT
> 
> i'm guessing this is an imc issue? granted, i don't think i care enough to hit higher frequencies based on what i've seen comparing the actual performance difference of a couple hundred mt/s but i'm curious as to why i would be struggling so much with the frequency. some friendly folk at the overclocking discord told me it was most likely to be an exceptionally poorly binned imc but others told me it could be other issues (motherboard or bios settings)
> 
> is it worth picking up another i5-12600k or going up to the 12700k to get a better imc?


What bioses have you tried? 1.22 and 1.24 are some of the better ones that I have heard of for your MB

You can get 1.24 here and you might get more feedback posting in that thread MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4/WIFI Owners Thread

If you have tried both of those bioses and cant boot past 3800 it is likely IMC. To me it wouldnt be worth buying another CPU to run a little memory OC unless you are doing it for fun/hobby.


----------



## chocolates

whoa, that is super interesting. i did not think it could've been bios related; i believe i'm on the latest one on their website (7D25v17 ?) but i'll give the other version a go for sure


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> The values of channel B are higher than channel A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Power Down mode Disabel it , help att ns sek


----------



## edkieferlp

Martin v r said:


> Power Down mode Disabel it , help att ns sek


Does anyone know what ASUS calls power down mode (Z690), I took a quick look and couldn't find it.


----------



## Martin v r

edkieferlp said:


> Does anyone know what ASUS calls power down mode (Z690), I took a quick look and couldn't find it.


In advanced mode
goto AI tweaker
then DRAM Timing Control
scroll down toward the bottom of timings near gear down mode ??


----------



## edkieferlp

Martin v r said:


> In advanced mode
> goto AI tweaker
> then DRAM Timing Control
> scroll down toward the bottom of timings near gear down mode ??


nope, don't see it here on TUF Z690 wifi D4, I do see tXP and tPPD but nothing "gear-down mode". Same show up in Mem tweakit.









PS: not a big deal, I just saw it mentioned few times and was checking setting.


----------



## Martin v r

edkieferlp said:


> nope, don't see it here on TUF Z690 wifi D4, I do see tXP and tPPD but nothing "gear-down mode". Same show up in Mem tweakit.
> View attachment 2570337
> 
> 
> PS: not a big deal, I just saw it mentioned few times and was checking setting.


you have to find it in the bios, and not in that program


----------



## edkieferlp

Martin v r said:


> you have to find it in the bios, and not in that program


Yes, I just came from bios, I just mentioned those settings as I could show picks of it easy.
Maybe only ROG MB have it exposed in bios.

EDit, I mean power down mode, I am already in gear down mode (1:1)

Edit2, this kind of answer question 





Where is "power down mode" for ram in BIOS?


I found from other 2 posts on asus rog forums, that this should be under "DRAM Timings Control" screen. I went over it multiple times and looked all over ai overclocking section. Yet i am still unable to find "power down mode" option. I was told to turn this off. Where would i find this in...



rog.asus.com


----------



## Imprezzion

I got a 11900KF now that should show up Monday or Tuesday. Will be running it in gear 1. I also scored me a second B-Die kit. Dominator Platinum 3466's. They have v4.31 on the sticker so are guaranteed B-Die. Just not a great bin. But they were so cheap I couldn't help myself. The Trident-Z Neo's I have now are rather mediocre and get very hot due to the bad heatsinks and Dom Plats are a lot better and have no RGB which you can't see in my build anyway so. I am hoping they'll do like 3800/3866 14-15-15 gear 1 depending on the IMC quality on my 11900KF. To be continued.


----------



## The Pook

didn't you just go back to 10th gen from 11th gen


----------



## Imprezzion

The Pook said:


> didn't you just go back to 10th gen from 11th gen


Perhaps hehe. But this was too good a deal. I sold my 10900K for more then the 11900KF cost me and I get a free CoD MW2 voucher which I wanted to buy anyway soooo..


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> Power Down mode Disabel it , help att ns sek


But power down mode, can increase performance? I think to read in ddr4 oc guide

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

itt's not good 3 value between d1 chA and chB?
see photo


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> itt's not good 3 value between d1 chA and chB?
> see photo
> View attachment 2570399


I set the IO and let the bios choose CHA


----------



## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> itt's not good 3 value between d1 chA and chB?
> see photo
> View attachment 2570399


The D1 RTL's are trained wrong. No more then 2 between them. 63/66 isn't good. The IO is fine but can be lower probably.

Try manual RTL with Initials 69/69/1/1 and try a reboot to BIOS and see what it trains. If it's still off use offsets. 22/21 should fix it.


----------



## pipes

Imprezzion said:


> The D1 RTL's are trained wrong. No more then 2 between them. 63/66 isn't good. The IO is fine but can be lower probably.
> 
> Try manual RTL with Initials 69/69/1/1 and try a reboot to BIOS and see what it trains. If it's still off use offsets. 22/21 should fix it.


I know but with slow training I want try with slow training enable

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> I set the IO and let the bios choose CHA


I don't understand what do you mean 


Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> I don't understand what do you mean
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Tomorrow, I will receive Msi z590 unify-x and f4-5333c22d-gvk to try go over 4400.
I don't know we watch to know

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

New 11900K, bottom end bin chip, quite mediocre really, SP50, max 5.2 all core, IMC only does 3733 max on gear 1. Cache is not going anything over 44 and even that isn't fully stable so I just run 43. Testing my Trident-Z Neo 3600C16's here.










This is about the best they can do. Straight 14's is a error mess. I wanna try to tighten up tRFC a bit more and maybe the tertiaries. 10's for tRDWR's or 6's for tWRRD/tWRWR but that's about all it can do.

I'm getting my cheap used Dominator Platinum 3466 B-Die's tomorrow and I'll test them side by side with this kit.

Does anyone know if the Dominator Platinum's have temp sensors btw?


----------



## SoloCamo

So random question for you all.

The 11900k is on sale for under $300. What is going to be faster for more workloads with mainly a focus on gaming?

11900k w/ my current ram (32gb cl18-22-22-42-2t ddr4 3600 @ 4000mhz)

or a 10900 non K (locked at 4.6ghz all core, boosts to 5.2 single core) w/ the fastest 32gb of DDR4 available?

I'm already putting 1.45v through this memory and my trfc doesn't want to go below 900 lol.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> So random question for you all.
> 
> The 11900k is on sale for under $300. What is going to be faster for more workloads with mainly a focus on gaming?
> 
> 11900k w/ my current ram (32gb cl18-22-22-42-2t ddr4 3600 @ 4000mhz)
> 
> or a 10900 non K (locked at 4.6ghz all core, boosts to 5.2 single core) w/ the fastest 32gb of DDR4 available?
> 
> I'm already putting 1.45v through this memory and my trfc doesn't want to go below 900 lol.


too many variables to give a real answer 

someone could remove my CPU OC and drop my RAM from 4300 15-16-16 to 4000 18-22-22 and I'd never notice a difference at the settings I play at though fwiw. I'd imagine the same would be true for you with a 6800 XT. 

save your money and just PayPal it to me


----------



## SunnyStefan

The 11900k will be faster assuming you plan on overclocking it, if not then this would be more of a "side grade" than an upgrade.
The 10900K and 11900K trade blows when both are overclocked, the 10900K will pull ahead in highly multi-threaded games such as Battlefield V.

Personally I think you would be disappointed in the performance uplift given you are spending $300.
Unless you already have a buyer lined up for your old CPU, I would save up for a more substantial upgrade (12700K, 13000 Raptor Lake Series, AMD 5800X3D).


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> too many variables to give a real answer
> 
> someone could remove my CPU OC and drop my RAM from 4300 15-16-16 to 4000 18-22-22 and I'd never notice a difference at the settings I play at though fwiw. I'd imagine the same would be true for you with a 6800 XT.
> 
> save your money and just PayPal it to me


How dare you, it's a 6900XT and I'm very offended at your mistake. But seriously, that's' my situation, too. I'm at 4k60hz and have been watching these recent jumps in CPU performance so the upgrade itch is creeping on me again. In reality, there isn't a game I play that I have any trouble with.



SunnyStefan said:


> The 11900k will be faster assuming you plan on overclocking it, if not then this would be more of a "side grade" than an upgrade.
> The 10900K and 11900K trade blows when both are overclocked, the 10900K will pull ahead in highly multi-threaded games such as Battlefield V.
> 
> Personally I think you would be disappointed in the performance uplift given you are spending $300.
> Unless you already have a buyer lined up for your old CPU, I would save up for a more substantial upgrade (12700K, 13000 Raptor Lake Series, AMD 5800X3D).


My 10900 isn't overclocked but is power unlimited to allow it holding 4.6ghz all core no matter the load. I knew what would be said but part of me is trying to upgrade just for the sake of the IPC uplift and what I worry about is PCI-E 3.0 being al limiting factor for next gen gpus. I'm already on a z590 board so pci-e 4.0 support is there with a 11th gen, but losing 2c4t also kills me despite gaming being 99% of what I do with it.

I know the memory market has changed, so if I have let's say... $300 burning a hole in my pocket, are there still good b-die 2x 16gb kit's available that will considerably outperform my single rank high timing 4000 setup? Don't factor in 4k, but let's just say hypothetical completely cpu bound here.

The whole point of this build was to be a "cheap" upgrade over my 4790k w/ 32gb ddr3 cas10 2400mhz and here I am feeling dissapointed in not having top tier parts despite the age simply because I know performance is left on the table.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> How dare you, it's a 6900XT and I'm very offended at your mistake. But seriously, that's' my situation, too. I'm at 4k60hz and have been watching these recent jumps in CPU performance so the upgrade itch is creeping on me again. In reality, there isn't a game I play that I have any trouble with.


6700 XT



SoloCamo said:


> I know the memory market has changed, so if I have let's say... $300 burning a hole in my pocket, are there still good b-die 2x 16gb kit's available that will considerably outperform my single rank high timing 4000 setup? Don't factor in 4k
> 
> I am feeling dissapointed in not having top tier parts despite the age simply because I know performance is left on the table.


but 4K

an 11900K _and_ some dope af RAM isn't even really gonna change a whole lot but just for HWBOT or entertainment then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 






Are you a human?







www.newegg.com













G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## tps3443

SoloCamo said:


> So random question for you all.
> 
> The 11900k is on sale for under $300. What is going to be faster for more workloads with mainly a focus on gaming?
> 
> 11900k w/ my current ram (32gb cl18-22-22-42-2t ddr4 3600 @ 4000mhz)
> 
> or a 10900 non K (locked at 4.6ghz all core, boosts to 5.2 single core) w/ the fastest 32gb of DDR4 available?
> 
> I'm already putting 1.45v through this memory and my trfc doesn't want to go below 900 lol.


That’s a pretty substantial upgrade. The 11900K is designed to run 5.1Ghz all-cores by just enabling AIBT in the bios. So with even just 3600 Gear (1) it’s gonna sail past the 10900 *non K*. Your looking at about a 30% IPC uplift. With a full tuned out 11900K vs a 4.6Ghz i9 10900. 


The [email protected] with only (8/16) will match the 10900K‘s (10/20) cores in any mutithreaded load.

My 11900K is already substantially faster than any stock 10900K. It’s going to take a very fast and heavily overclocked 10900K at 5.4Ghz+ to beat my 11900K in Cinebench or something like that. But you’ll always have the lead in single thread.


----------



## tps3443

SunnyStefan said:


> The 11900k will be faster assuming you plan on overclocking it, if not then this would be more of a "side grade" than an upgrade.
> The 10900K and 11900K trade blows when both are overclocked, the 10900K will pull ahead in highly multi-threaded games such as Battlefield V.
> 
> Personally I think you would be disappointed in the performance uplift given you are spending $300.
> Unless you already have a buyer lined up for your old CPU, I would save up for a more substantial upgrade (12700K, 13000 Raptor Lake Series, AMD 5800X3D).


He has a *10900 NON-K*. That’s a massive upgrade. Not to mention the 11900K is like $279.99 bucks.


----------



## Imprezzion

Interesting. The Dominator Platinum's just straight up loaded the 3733C14 profile my Trident-Z's were clocked at without any issues. This was the absolute edge of stability and as tight as it could go on the Trident-Z Neo's. Gives me hope these will go tighter seeing how easily they booted this profile.

The heatsinks are like, 1mm too high to properly fit my top radiator fans tho. Gotta figure something out for that.

They also have temp sensors which is nice to see. Now time to run some TM5 and see how hot they get and what kinda timings I can pull out of these. Heck, maybe these will even boot 3800 gear 1 somehow.

EDIT: they can do quite well but bad PCB. They can't handle >1.55v. Get lot's of error #6 right at the start of a TM5 1usmus which should be PCB crash. And they are too high for my radiator anyway.


----------



## Martin v r

*Patriot DDR4 16GB kit 4400MHz CL19 *
I could think of buying, it is also with B-die 19-19-19-39 1.45v


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Interesting. The Dominator Platinum's just straight up loaded the 3733C14 profile my Trident-Z's were clocked at without any issues. This was the absolute edge of stability and as tight as it could go on the Trident-Z Neo's. Gives me hope these will go tighter seeing how easily they booted this profile.
> 
> The heatsinks are like, 1mm too high to properly fit my top radiator fans tho. Gotta figure something out for that.
> 
> They also have temp sensors which is nice to see. Now time to run some TM5 and see how hot they get and what kinda timings I can pull out of these. Heck, maybe these will even boot 3800 gear 1 somehow.
> 
> EDIT: they can do quite well but bad PCB. They can't handle >1.55v. Get lot's of error #6 right at the start of a TM5 1usmus which should be PCB crash. And they are too high for my radiator anyway.


Have you tried 1.5V VSA and 1.5V VCCIO AUX yet?


How cool the Dom Platz run is amazing for sure.


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> 6700 XT
> 
> 
> 
> but 4K
> 
> an 11900K _and_ some dope af RAM isn't even really gonna change a whole lot but just for HWBOT or entertainment then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Silly question, but those are dual rank, correct? Seems like memory mostly helps with the min fps, etc. and that's where I'd like to see most of the benefit. I'm down to keeping my 10900 a long time as long as I can maintain over 60fps min.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Silly question, but those are dual rank, correct? Seems like memory mostly helps with the min fps, etc. and that's where I'd like to see most of the benefit. I'm down to keeping my 10900 a long time as long as I can maintain over 60fps min.


yep, DR. they're B-Die and afaik single rank 16GB B-Die DIMMs don't exist


----------



## Martin v r

The Pook said:


> yep, DR. they're B-Die and afaik single rank 16GB B-Die DIMMs don't exist


hmm hynix has B-die/and some will call them E-die because it is not samsung that made them
ballistix-ddr4-32gb-kit-4400mhz-cl19 single rank

bought a set for my boy, but the price was down on them, now they cost big time now


----------



## The Pook

Martin v r said:


> hmm hynix has B-die/and some will call them E-die because it is not samsung that made them
> ballistix-ddr4-32gb-kit-4400mhz-cl19 single rank
> 
> bought a set for my boy, but the price was down on them, now they cost big time now


meant _Samsung_ B-Die 🙃

Hynix/Samsung/Micron all make single rank 16GB DIMMs but 32GB 16GB SR Samsung B-Die DIMMs don't exist afaik


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> yep, DR. they're B-Die and afaik single rank 16GB B-Die DIMMs don't exist


Thanks. Probably going to pick them up simply for the sake of learning more about tuning properly as I've pretty much been a set it and forget it guy. Last DDR I messed with in detail was literally DDR1 500mhz (2x 512mb OCZ Gold VX 1gb kit)

The Neo kit is 16-16-16-36 at 1.4v, do you tnink 15-15-15 or even 16-16-16-36 (1t vs 2t) is feasible at 1.45v? Also, any real difference outside of visuals for the neo vs rgb kits?


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Thanks. Probably going to pick them up simply for the sake of learning more about tuning properly as I've pretty much been a set it and forget it guy. Last DDR I messed with in detail was literally DDR1 500mhz (2x 512mb OCZ Gold VX 1gb kit)
> 
> The Neo kit is 16-16-16-36 at 1.4v, do you tnink 15-15-15 or even 16-16-16-36 (1t vs 2t) is feasible at 1.45v? Also, any real difference outside of visuals for the neo vs rgb kits?


should be just a heatspreader difference and silicon lottery, they're binned identical and are both using the same IC. 

most of your performance comes from manual sub timings regardless of 1T vs 2T or CL15 vs CL16. none of my kits have been able to run 1T at clocks that make sense to run over 2T except my server that tops out at 3400 🙃


----------



## pipes

I state that given the results it would be better a 10900kf at 270 € but I wanted a spasmodic advice, better a 11900kf or 10900kf or 11700kf on the z590 unify-x?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## SunnyStefan

tps3443 said:


> He has a *10900 NON-K*. That’s a massive upgrade. Not to mention the 11900K is like $279.99 bucks.


Is it an upgrade? Yeah certainly, but I don't think it's a cost effective upgrade given the performance gains. Unless we are assuming he plans on overclocking his new CPU to 5.5ghz all core, I think you are over estimating the real world performance gains of going from a stock 10900 -> stock 11900K.

Regardless, if you ask me, upgrading right before a new generation of Intel CPUs are released is a bad move for a cost-sensitive buyer who is capable of exercising patience.


----------



## SoloCamo

SunnyStefan said:


> Is it an upgrade? Yeah certainly, but I don't think it's a cost effective upgrade given the performance gains. Unless we are assuming he plans on overclocking his new CPU to 5.5ghz all core, I think you are over estimating the real world performance gains of going from a stock 10900 -> stock 11900K.
> 
> Regardless, if you ask me, upgrading right before a new generation of Intel CPUs are released is a bad move for a cost-sensitive buyer who is capable of exercising patience.


Correct. I've decided against swapping the cpu's when 12th gen already makes a mockery out of 11th gen and going down to 8c16 vs 10c20t just doesn't sit right with me. The only thing I'll likely do is swap memory, but even deep down I know it's just a waste of money.

Only honest reason I'd do it is so when my 1080p living room pc (4790k @ 4.4ghz all core / 32gb cl10 ddr3 2400 / oc'ed vega 56) is ready to be retired I know the cpu is being fed properly for 1080p as far as memory goes. Either that or it will be setup as a home server which it will obviously excel at. 11900k is too hot and power hungry with my NH-D15 to do any proper oc'ing with anyways and while my 750w psu is of good quality, I like to have quite a bit of headroom if possible.


----------



## tps3443

SoloCamo said:


> Correct. I've decided against swapping the cpu's when 12th gen already makes a mockery out of 11th gen and going down to 8c16 vs 10c20t just doesn't sit right with me. The only thing I'll likely do is swap memory, but even deep down I know it's just a waste of money.
> 
> Only honest reason I'd do it is so when my 1080p living room pc (4790k @ 4.4ghz all core / 32gb cl10 ddr3 2400 / oc'ed vega 56) is ready to be retired I know the cpu is being fed properly for 1080p as far as memory goes. Either that or it will be setup as a home server which it will obviously excel at. 11900k is too hot and power hungry with my NH-D15 to do any proper oc'ing with anyways and while my 750w psu is of good quality, I like to have quite a bit of headroom if possible.


I think you may be missing where I’m coming from. We are talking about a $80 dollar expense for a drastic IPC boost. You’d be sitting comfortably between 12900K IPC and a 10900K IPC in single threaded apps.

11900K $279.99
10900 Used $200

Just sell your 10900 after.

4.8Ghz 8/16 rocket lake is going to match 4.6Ghz Cometlake in multithreaded. And with modern bios and microcode the 11900K’s run 5.1 all cores with AIBT enabled, providing a substantial boost in multithreaded performance. The 11900K has come a long ways since the initial introduction and matured nicely.

However, my point of view comes from real world gaming performance. In that case, absolutely you’d see a nice boost in fps with minimal expense.


I was assuming you were after saving money. But, if you are just waiting for 12th or 13th Gen. You’ll see a difference but at the expense of much more than swapping a $200 dollar chip for a $300 dollar chip.

Looking at your sig, I think you have a 4K monitor maybe? Which doesn’t really show any difference no matter what CPU you have. I don’t think upgrading at all makes any sense whatsoever other than having faster applications etc.


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> I state that given the results it would be better a 10900kf at 270 € but I wanted a spasmodic advice, better a 11900kf or 10900kf or 11700kf on the z590 unify-x?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> Up
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


10900K if you want to delid and gamble on a good chip, 11900KF if you want it to "just work". I would grab a 11900KF, slap IABT on it for 5.1 all core without doing any manual OC work, run 3733/3800/3866 gear 1 memory with low timings, enjoy it. 

I would even sell you my brand new 11900KF for 270. I'm in the Netherlands so shipping to Italy is quite fast and cheap. Mine isn't very well binned and i would like to grab another one just to test / bin and they are pretty cheap here now (359 but with free CoD mw2 code being worth about 80 so 279 basically).


----------



## david azulay

Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
oc to 5066mhz cl 19/23/23/43 gear 2
cpu 12700k oc 5100mhz avx512
ring 4700mhz
dram 1.55v
vddq 1.45v
vccsa 1.3v
Y Ccruncher avx512 5.1ghz all p core
65.254s
mobo asus prime z690 d4
ODT 80-48-0


----------



## Martin v r

The Pook said:


> should be just a heatspreader difference and silicon lottery, they're binned identical and are both using the same IC.
> 
> most of your performance comes from manual sub timings regardless of 1T vs 2T or CL15 vs CL16. none of my kits have been able to run 1T at clocks that make sense to run over 2T except my server that tops out at 3400 🙃
> 
> There are several sets where it is not stated that they are B-die, just like mine


----------



## Imprezzion

What is a normal gear 1 latency for a 11900K(F) Z590 combo at 3733C14? I'm running 3733 14-15-15-28-256-2T with very tight secondary and tertiary timings but latency is still like 44.xx ns which to me sounds terrible lol. I can only run cache at 43, the CPU is a terrible overclocker with SP50 and only does 5.2 all core at very high voltages and can't run any cache frequency over 43. PPD is off / 0 and tXP is 0.

If the latency is not "normal" at 44.xx then I will try a fresh windows as this windows install is several systems old so..

@tps3443 perhaps you can help with this one?


----------



## Martin v r

The Pook said:


> should be just a heatspreader difference and silicon lottery, they're binned identical and are both using the same IC.
> 
> most of your performance comes from manual sub timings regardless of 1T vs 2T or CL15 vs CL16. none of my kits have been able to run 1T at clocks that make sense to run over 2T except my server that tops out at 3400 🙃





david azulay said:


> Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
> oc to 5066mhz cl 19/23/23/43 gear 2
> cpu 12700k oc 5100mhz avx512
> ring 4700mhz
> dram 1.55v
> vddq 1.45v
> vccsa 1.3v
> Y Ccruncher avx512 5.1ghz all p core
> 65.254s
> mobo asus prime z690 d4
> ODT 80-48-0


so you run 133 and not 100 on your mem ?


----------



## david azulay

Martin v r said:


> so you run 133 and not 100 on your mem ?


daily regularly i'm on 100
Because it's 5000MHZ The timings are tighter 18/23/23/43
TRDRD SG 6
TRDRD DG 4
TWRWR SG 6
TWRWR DG 4

on 5067 (133)
19/23/23/44
TRDRD SG 7
TRDRD DG 4
TWRWR SG 7
TWRWR DG 4


----------



## Imprezzion

I really doubt I can push any timings any lower then this. Especially the tertiaries. I didn't really expect to even pull this off but..



















Latency still feels very high but.. (NB Clock is misreading due to EIST. It's 4300.)


----------



## The Pook

Martin v r said:


> so you run 133 and not 100 on your mem ?


auto

manually setting 133 or 100 only limits the ratios you can use 



Martin v r said:


> There are several sets where it is not stated that they are B-die, just like mine


most B-Die doesn't advertise being B-Die


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> I really doubt I can push any timings any lower then this. Especially the tertiaries. I didn't really expect to even pull this off but..
> 
> View attachment 2570837
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570838
> 
> 
> Latency still feels very high but.. (NB Clock is misreading due to EIST. It's 4300.)


This looks normal to me. I was gonna say sub 40ns.


----------



## tps3443

The Pook said:


> auto
> 
> manually setting 133 or 100 only limits the ratios you can use
> 
> 
> 
> most B-Die doesn't advertise being B-Die


Samsung B-Die is getting harder and harder to find. All of the really good 2x16GB 4000CL15 and extremist 2x16GB 4000CL14 kits are gone.

The only solid option left is the Corsair Dominator Platinums 3600C14 (4.31). They are like $239.99 USD, cheaper with a promotional code. I run them and they are 100% stable with my configuration. They also run really cool too, even when being heavy on voltage. 




https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB/p/CMT32GX4M2Z3600C14?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_term=%22keyword%22&utm_content=corsair&gclid=CjwKCAjwsMGYBhAEEiwAGUXJaT5EKaGdb7wELgVJDJa6Etr7J2p6APJrR98PvPSl0uIrb3a5a6JVKxoCUg8QAvD_BwE


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> Up
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I’ve owned all of them. And I have ran 10th Gen head to head with 11th Gen at one point.

11th Gen is usually almost always faster in games. But someone is always gonna say other wise. The truth is, 11th Gen has come a long long long ways since first launching. I have upgraded my microcode a few times and my bios 7-8 different times now on Z590 motherboard. And even the last bios has helped me tremendously with better memory timings and better performance.

My point is, In the ladder part of 2022 the 11900K is stout and very fast in apps and gaming. You just enable AIBT in the bios and it runs 5.1Ghz-5.3Ghz all the time no matter how hot it gets.

Regardless of the CPU choice, you will want dual rank Samsung B-Die for the best performance. Unless you opt for a 11700K, and in that case I’d say budget ram is probably okay.

The 11700K is not binned at all so they can run 4.8-4.9Ghz on all cores MAX (If you are lucky maybe 5Ghz). And 3200 Gear (1) is about all you’ll get.

The 11900K is binned from Intel so they all run 5.2Ghz and 3733 Gear 1, with a 43 cache OC at the minimum. So you are getting a good binned sample whether it’s listed as SP48 11900K or SP90 11900K, it’s gonna boost between 5.1 and 5.3Ghz on all the cores.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

david azulay said:


> Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
> oc to 5066mhz cl 19/23/23/43 gear 2
> cpu 12700k oc 5100mhz avx512
> ring 4700mhz
> dram 1.55v
> vddq 1.45v
> vccsa 1.3v
> Y Ccruncher avx512 5.1ghz all p core
> 65.254s
> mobo asus prime z690 d4
> ODT 80-48-0


This is immensely satisfying.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> This looks normal to me. I was gonna say sub 40ns.


I did some testing with my Dominator Platinums and my Trident-Z Neo's again as I was bored and I noticed I can run 1T just fine as long as i'm in Gear 2.
So I quickly slapped together a benchmark suite of Division 2, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Cinebench R23 and AIDA64. For the games the CPU is locked to 5.1 all core 4.3 cache, GPU is locked to 1950 core 10500 memory. Everything is 4 back to back runs.

3733 14-15-15-28-272-2T Gear 1 vs 4400 17-17-17-34-340-1T Gear 2.
In Division 2 3733 scores 145-145-147-146 FPS.
4400 scores 146-147-147-148 FPS.

Shadow of the tomb Raider 3733: 93-93-92-93
4400: 93-94-92-93

Cinebench R23 Multicore 3733: 16334 16339 16341 16299
4400 16504 16522 16498 16500

AIDA64 3733: (best score out of 4 runs) read 59872 write 57956 copy 61259 latency 39.9ns
AIDA64 4400: read 68693 write 68414 copy 68153 latency 47.8ns (see below)

As far as this very limited testing goes Gear 2 is not inherently worse for gaming or productivity vs Gear 1 if tuned properly. The extra latency does not seem to have a negative effect or the massive increase in bandwidth counters it. Every single benchmark actually shows a tiny tiny improvement for 4400 gear 2. Even if it's VERY small yet consistent so I wouldn't call it margin of error. 

I know these Trident-Z's will do these clocks and timings but I will TM5 1usmus test them just to make sure they will also do it in combination with this specific board and CPU.
Then it's off to test the Dominators to see if they can either do tighter timings at 4400 or do a higher frequency. The Trident-Z's don't go over 4400 with any form of stability.


----------



## 2500k_2

daily😆


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> I did some testing with my Dominator Platinums and my Trident-Z Neo's again as I was bored and I noticed I can run 1T just fine as long as i'm in Gear 2.
> So I quickly slapped together a benchmark suite of Division 2, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Cinebench R23 and AIDA64. For the games the CPU is locked to 5.1 all core 4.3 cache, GPU is locked to 1950 core 10500 memory. Everything is 4 back to back runs.
> 
> 3733 14-15-15-28-272-2T Gear 1 vs 4400 17-17-17-34-340-1T Gear 2.
> In Division 2 3733 scores 145-145-147-146 FPS.
> 4400 scores 146-147-147-148 FPS.
> 
> Shadow of the tomb Raider 3733: 93-93-92-93
> 4400: 93-94-92-93
> 
> Cinebench R23 Multicore 3733: 16334 16339 16341 16299
> 4400 16504 16522 16498 16500
> 
> AIDA64 3733: (best score out of 4 runs) read 59872 write 57956 copy 61259 latency 39.9ns
> AIDA64 4400: read 68693 write 68414 copy 68153 latency 47.8ns (see below)
> 
> As far as this very limited testing goes Gear 2 is not inherently worse for gaming or productivity vs Gear 1 if tuned properly. The extra latency does not seem to have a negative effect or the massive increase in bandwidth counters it. Every single benchmark actually shows a tiny tiny improvement for 4400 gear 2. Even if it's VERY small yet consistent so I wouldn't call it margin of error.
> 
> I know these Trident-Z's will do these clocks and timings but I will TM5 1usmus test them just to make sure they will also do it in combination with this specific board and CPU.
> Then it's off to test the Dominators to see if they can either do tighter timings at 4400 or do a higher frequency. The Trident-Z's don't go over 4400 with any form of stability.
> 
> View attachment 2570875


In a game like csgo you will see it has a big effect,fps increases violently, and gives a more constant high fps ,whit high Mhz an low cl


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> I did some testing with my Dominator Platinums and my Trident-Z Neo's again as I was bored and I noticed I can run 1T just fine as long as i'm in Gear 2.
> So I quickly slapped together a benchmark suite of Division 2, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Cinebench R23 and AIDA64. For the games the CPU is locked to 5.1 all core 4.3 cache, GPU is locked to 1950 core 10500 memory. Everything is 4 back to back runs.
> 
> 3733 14-15-15-28-272-2T Gear 1 vs 4400 17-17-17-34-340-1T Gear 2.
> In Division 2 3733 scores 145-145-147-146 FPS.
> 4400 scores 146-147-147-148 FPS.
> 
> Shadow of the tomb Raider 3733: 93-93-92-93
> 4400: 93-94-92-93
> 
> Cinebench R23 Multicore 3733: 16334 16339 16341 16299
> 4400 16504 16522 16498 16500
> 
> AIDA64 3733: (best score out of 4 runs) read 59872 write 57956 copy 61259 latency 39.9ns
> AIDA64 4400: read 68693 write 68414 copy 68153 latency 47.8ns (see below)
> 
> As far as this very limited testing goes Gear 2 is not inherently worse for gaming or productivity vs Gear 1 if tuned properly. The extra latency does not seem to have a negative effect or the massive increase in bandwidth counters it. Every single benchmark actually shows a tiny tiny improvement for 4400 gear 2. Even if it's VERY small yet consistent so I wouldn't call it margin of error.
> 
> I know these Trident-Z's will do these clocks and timings but I will TM5 1usmus test them just to make sure they will also do it in combination with this specific board and CPU.
> Then it's off to test the Dominators to see if they can either do tighter timings at 4400 or do a higher frequency. The Trident-Z's don't go over 4400 with any form of stability.
> 
> View attachment 2570875


sat and looked at yours, and wanted to test something ,It seems that tCWL and tREFI have a big effect on RTL(CHA) if they are too low they can cause problems in getting RTL down
I found out that READ/COPY went up, and Write went down a bit, but it seems the Z590 has an easier time handling mem compared to the z490


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> sat and looked at yours, and wanted to test something ,It seems that tCWL and tREFI have a big effect on RTL(CHA) if they are too low they can cause problems in getting RTL down
> I found out that READ/COPY went up, and Write went down a bit, but it seems the Z590 has an easier time handling mem compared to the z490


As long as Round Trip Latency training wants to properly run as Enabled, yes. It does. However, on 11th gen you cannot manually adjust the RTL or IO. It either ru
ns / trains or it doesn't. You can't tweak Initials or Offsets to make it do something else. It's Round Trip Latency either Enabled or Disabled in the training menu and the board has to do the work. 

4400C17 1T Gear 2 is stable enough at 1.54v DRAM to pass 1h of TM5 however I did have to drop the tRDWR's down to 15's. It won't really run any lower without spitting error #1 / #8's after ~20 minutes. This doesn't really affect latency in AIDA or any benchmark tool, only a slight drop in Copy speeds with tRDWR's 15 vs 12. (67700 now). I can keep tweaking these timings but I wanna try my other B-Die DIMM's now to see how they behave at this frequency. These are my Trident-Z Neo 3600C16's and I'm swapping in my v4.31 Dominator Platinum 3466C16's now. Technically a worse bin but they do amazingly well at 3733 and I have never run them at higher frequencies so I am curious to see what they'll do.


----------



## pipes

the performance differences mentioned so many are almost zeroed by the resolution, to have a lot of benefit you should play at 1080p because already at 1440p the difference tapers

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Imprezzion said:


> As long as Round Trip Latency training wants to properly run as Enabled, yes. It does. However, on 11th gen you cannot manually adjust the RTL or IO. It either ru
> ns / trains or it doesn't. You can't tweak Initials or Offsets to make it do something else. It's Round Trip Latency either Enabled or Disabled in the training menu and the board has to do the work.
> 
> 4400C17 1T Gear 2 is stable enough at 1.54v DRAM to pass 1h of TM5 however I did have to drop the tRDWR's down to 15's. It won't really run any lower without spitting error #1 / #8's after ~20 minutes. This doesn't really affect latency in AIDA or any benchmark tool, only a slight drop in Copy speeds with tRDWR's 15 vs 12. (67700 now). I can keep tweaking these timings but I wanna try my other B-Die DIMM's now to see how they behave at this frequency. These are my Trident-Z Neo 3600C16's and I'm swapping in my v4.31 Dominator Platinum 3466C16's now. Technically a worse bin but they do amazingly well at 3733 and I have never run them at higher frequencies so I am curious to see what they'll do.
> 
> View attachment 2570898


What ram do you use? make a aida64 memtest plz?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> the performance differences mentioned so many are almost zeroed by the resolution, to have a lot of benefit you should play at 1080p because already at 1440p the difference tapers
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I play 1080p 240hz 10bit HDR on a VG279QM so yeah. That checks out.

The RAM I'm using is a set of 2x16GB G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 and another set of 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum v4.31 3466C16. The Corsair does very tight timings up to 3800 but can't really run high frequencies. I'm trying to make them boot at 4400 and 4533 and so far no luck.


----------



## david azulay

Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
oc to 5000mhz cl 18/23/23/43 gear 2
cpu 12700k oc 5200mhz avx512
ring 4700mhz
dram 1.55v
vddq 1.45v
vccsa 1.3v
Y Ccruncher avx512 5.2 ghz all p core
65.5s
mobo asus prime z690 d4
ODT 80-48-0 

latency 48ns


----------



## Martin v r

david azulay said:


> Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
> oc to 5000mhz cl 18/23/23/43 gear 2
> cpu 12700k oc 5200mhz avx512
> ring 4700mhz
> dram 1.55v
> vddq 1.45v
> vccsa 1.3v
> Y Ccruncher avx512 5.2 ghz all p core
> 65.5s
> mobo asus prime z690 d4
> ODT 80-48-0
> 
> latency 48ns


nice mem


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

david azulay said:


> Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
> oc to 5000mhz cl 18/23/23/43 gear 2
> cpu 12700k oc 5200mhz avx512
> ring 4700mhz
> dram 1.55v
> vddq 1.45v
> vccsa 1.3v
> Y Ccruncher avx512 5.2 ghz all p core
> 65.5s
> mobo asus prime z690 d4
> ODT 80-48-0
> 
> latency 48ns


So I have the same die as you but way worse bin running 4800 19-30-26-57. Running 16 Cwl and stock volts for sa. Totally stable but I was unable to drop tertiaries at all besides wrrd 2 clocks. Would running cwl = cas and higher vSA help with tightening tertiaries or am I probably already at the limit of my sticks and mem controller?


----------



## david azulay

MIXEDGREENS said:


> So I have the same die as you but way worse bin running 4800 19-30-26-57. Running 16 Cwl and stock volts for sa. Totally stable but I was unable to drop tertiaries at all besides wrrd 2 clocks. Would running cwl = cas and higher vSA help with tightening tertiaries or am I probably already at the limit of my sticks and mem controller?



If you don't have the same motherboard as mine.
And exactly the same memories
I really can't help you with that.
The overclocking I do for memories takes me at least a few days
In my bios, everything is set manually Nothing on auto.
If you have the same motherboard as mine

*ASUS PRIME Z690 D4

CPU 12700K*

RAM
*Crucial Ballistix 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory (White)*
CL16 / 18 /18 / 38 - micron B - Die 
*BL2K16G36C16U4W*

If so, the settings I wrote down are completely stable I even specified the ODT settings


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

david azulay said:


> If you don't have the same motherboard as mine.
> And exactly the same memories
> I really can't help you with that.
> The overclocking I do for memories takes me at least a few days
> In my bios, everything is set manually Nothing on auto.
> If you have the same motherboard as mine
> 
> *ASUS PRIME Z690 D4
> 
> CPU 12700K*
> 
> RAM
> *Crucial Ballistix 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory (White)*
> CL16 / 18 /18 / 38 - micron B - Die
> *BL2K16G36C16U4W*
> 
> If so, the settings I wrote down are completely stable I even specified the ODT settings


Thank you for the detailed timings. Different motherboard but still z690, 12700k, and 16gb Micron B-die so you've given me some ideas.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> I play 1080p 240hz 10bit HDR on a VG279QM so yeah. That checks out.
> 
> The RAM I'm using is a set of 2x16GB G.Skill Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 and another set of 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum v4.31 3466C16. The Corsair does very tight timings up to 3800 but can't really run high frequencies. I'm trying to make them boot at 4400 and 4533 and so far no luck.


I don’t remember Rocketlake performing very well in games with Gear (2) settings like you have. But, I believe it’s possible 100%. The platform has come a long ways! Even Luumi said it would take like 4800+ Gear 2 with really tight timings on SR sticks for it to be worth it over going with low speed, low timing in Gear 1. The platform didn’t perform all that marvelously at launch. And that was a while back when Luumi was testing it.


Also, I have never messed with Gear 2 much my self. I need to try it out though. I imagine my IMC can do some cool stuff with it (Never tried gear2 on this 11900K). But, I do not think my DR sticks are as good as yours. We’ll have to see what happens. I did test DDR4 4800-5000 a while back with some good SR sticks on my other 11900K. I was getting like 80+GB bandwidth with low latency too.


----------



## TheHunter

Imprezzion said:


> As long as Round Trip Latency training wants to properly run as Enabled, yes. It does. However, on 11th gen you cannot manually adjust the RTL or IO. It either ru
> ns / trains or it doesn't. You can't tweak Initials or Offsets to make it do something else. It's Round Trip Latency either Enabled or Disabled in the training menu and the board has to do the work.
> 
> 4400C17 1T Gear 2 is stable enough at 1.54v DRAM to pass 1h of TM5 however I did have to drop the tRDWR's down to 15's. It won't really run any lower without spitting error #1 / #8's after ~20 minutes. This doesn't really affect latency in AIDA or any benchmark tool, only a slight drop in Copy speeds with tRDWR's 15 vs 12. (67700 now). I can keep tweaking these timings but I wanna try my other B-Die DIMM's now to see how they behave at this frequency. These are my Trident-Z Neo 3600C16's and I'm swapping in my v4.31 Dominator Platinum 3466C16's now. Technically a worse bin but they do amazingly well at 3733 and I have never run them at higher frequencies so I am curious to see what they'll do.
> 
> View attachment 2570898


Try 4266 mhz strap and OC blck to 103.20 to get to 4400, this will bring to you 70GB/s in aida


----------



## tps3443

My new 11900K will be here today. Hopefully it’s a good one! if not, I really don’t care and I’m just going to run it anyways. I’m building a Mini-ITX for my living room and it will use a 11900K with a Mini-ITX Z590 motherboard. I want a little PC primarily for streaming, and Xbox Game Pass in the living room. I was hoping to find one that uses little power for the best experience, due to the minimal cooling capability It’ll have.

It’ll be light years better than my Xbox One X regardless.

My main and really good 11900K is used in my work computer at home on direct die for about a year. And my wife also uses a direct die 11900K in her work computer at home for roughly a year now too.


----------



## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> Try 4266 mhz strap and OC blck to 103.20 to get to 4400, this will bring to you 70GB/s in aida
> View attachment 2570950
> View attachment 2570949
> View attachment 2570951





TheHunter said:


> Try 4266 mhz strap and OC blck to 103.20 to get to 4400, this will bring to you 70GB/s in aida
> View attachment 2570950
> View attachment 2570949
> View attachment 2570951


Works, however the IABT Auto OC does go all the way to 5260 all core 5470 single thread. It ain't happy lol. 1.625v VID and Die sense voltages and it still froze. 
I used Specific Core OC to limit the multiplier per core and at least it completed AIDA now. Scores are indeed above 70GB and latency is also WAY down. 










Ignore the CPU die sense voltage. I gotta find a way now to make the CPU OC behave with this BCLK.


----------



## bscool

BCLK OC makes Aida64 results inaccurate. IML is accurate though if you want to use it to compare memory performance using BCLK oc. Releases · FarisR99/IMLCGui






BCLK overclock on ADL


Can anything be done to get accurate results on Alderlake when OCing BCLK? It give inaccurate results on both DDR4 and DDR5 Video showing result. Not my system. But latency is actually in the 48 to 50ns range RWC are also about double what they actually are.



forums.aida64.com


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> BCLK OC makes Aida64 results inaccurate. IML is accurate though if you want to use it to compare memory performance using BCLK oc. Releases · FarisR99/IMLCGui
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BCLK overclock on ADL
> 
> 
> Can anything be done to get accurate results on Alderlake when OCing BCLK? It give inaccurate results on both DDR4 and DDR5 Video showing result. Not my system. But latency is actually in the 48 to 50ns range RWC are also about double what they actually are.
> 
> 
> 
> forums.aida64.com


It is accurate on Rocketlake though.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Works, however the IABT Auto OC does go all the way to 5260 all core 5470 single thread. It ain't happy lol. 1.625v VID and Die sense voltages and it still froze.
> I used Specific Core OC to limit the multiplier per core and at least it completed AIDA now. Scores are indeed above 70GB and latency is also WAY down.
> 
> View attachment 2570953
> 
> 
> Ignore the CPU die sense voltage. I gotta find a way now to make the CPU OC behave with this BCLK.


Try and set per core manually it’ll work the same as AIBT. The. You won’t be boosting so high. Then just run lower multipliers to compensate for the raised bclk.


----------



## bscool

tps3443 said:


> It is accurate on Rocketlake though.


Are you sure?

Here is 3200c17 gear 2 on RKL. looks off to me.


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Here is 3200c17 gear 2 on RKL. looks off to me.


I see what you mean, but I think it’s just your configuration maybe.

I don’t think anyone else has posted any super high readings.


----------



## tps3443

@Imprezzion 

Maybe also enable “TVB Ratio clipping” 

If the temp on any cores exceeds 70C it’ll go down a bin. This might help you stabilize with high overclocks.


----------



## GeneO

tps3443 said:


> @Imprezzion
> 
> Maybe also enable “TVB Ratio clipping”
> 
> If the temp on any cores exceeds 70C it’ll go down a bin. This might help you stabilize with high overclocks.


Even better IMO is to lower the effective TJ max. IME it is more well behaved.


----------



## ju-rek

After following the advice from this forum, I set my Viper Steel 4400 CL19 memories to 4000 CL16 G1 and I would like to ask if everything is well set up in my configuration. The voltages I use are VCCSA 1.25V, VDRAM 1.46, VDDQ 1.25V, CPUAUX 1.82V. Could something be improved, something changed? Thanks in advance for all helpful advice.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> @Imprezzion
> 
> Maybe also enable “TVB Ratio clipping”
> 
> If the temp on any cores exceeds 70C it’ll go down a bin. This might help you stabilize with high overclocks.


I have it set to 103.2 with manual per core ratio / per core load OC at x50 all core (5160) and x51 for the 2 best cores (5263). Cache is at x41 (4230).

Had to make a custom V/F curve with BCLK Aware Voltage enabled to make it not go straight to 1.625v. It kinda behaves now maxing out at 1.510v which I manually dropped by using V/F Curved negative offsets. It can run 5160 stable around 1.376-1.406v now. I don't have any TVB clipping or voltage limits enabled right now but I do have TJ Max set to 85c. It passes everything I can throw at it so far like Cinebench, y-cruncher, prime, x265 avx benchmark, Division 2, BF2042 (which heavily uses avx). It gets hot in CB R23/Prime staying right at or under the 85c throttling point. CB R23 gets about 16850-16900 points now which is a nice and strong 400-450 point increase over 100 bclk.

I'm going to try 1 step higher cache for 4334 now and raise the 2 best cores to x52 5366 and see how that goes. They run around 1.496-1.510v in single thread loads but I think they'll survive.

I also put an offer out on a used 11900K locally. The guy has it in a ASUS board so I asked him to check the SP and if it's like, 76 or above I'll buy it for the 300 asking he has it listed for and just sell this bad one again for around the same as it's just 6 days old.

EDIT: Seems happy enough to me! No WHEA's yet from the higher cache, no idle freezes, it passes multiple runs (60 min custom) CB R23 Multicore around 1.385v, nice and consistent scores every time, and for the single threaded one at 5366 around 1.465v consistent scores as well. Doesn't hit the 85c throttling point either. Seems to run absolutely fine so far. It's also really liking the RAM here. Latency is down to under 48ns even in G2 and I will tighten up some more tertiaries and such. This was just a baseline.


----------



## david azulay

ju-rek said:


> After following the advice from this forum, I set my Viper Steel 4400 CL19 memories to 4000 CL16 G1 and I would like to ask if everything is well set up in my configuration. The voltages I use are VCCSA 1.25V, VDRAM 1.46, VDDQ 1.25V, CPUAUX 1.82V. Could something be improved, something changed? Thanks in advance for all helpful advice.


TRDRD SG 7
TWRWR SG 7
TRDWR SG 12
TRDWR DG 12
TCKE 4
TRAS 34
TCWL 15


----------



## ju-rek

david azulay said:


> TRDRD SG 7
> TWRWR SG 7
> TRDWR SG 12
> TRDWR DG 12
> TCKE 4
> TRAS 34
> TCWL 15




After applying your changes, I have TM5 Error 10 in 1 minute of test.


----------



## TheHunter

Imprezzion said:


> I have it set to 103.2 with manual per core ratio / per core load OC at x50 all core (5160) and x51 for the 2 best cores (5263). Cache is at x41 (4230).
> 
> Had to make a custom V/F curve with BCLK Aware Voltage enabled to make it not go straight to 1.625v. It kinda behaves now maxing out at 1.510v which I manually dropped by using V/F Curved negative offsets. It can run 5160 stable around 1.376-1.406v now. I don't have any TVB clipping or voltage limits enabled right now but I do have TJ Max set to 85c. It passes everything I can throw at it so far like Cinebench, y-cruncher, prime, x265 avx benchmark, Division 2, BF2042 (which heavily uses avx). It gets hot in CB R23/Prime staying right at or under the 85c throttling point. CB R23 gets about 16850-16900 points now which is a nice and strong 400-450 point increase over 100 bclk.
> 
> I'm going to try 1 step higher cache for 4334 now and raise the 2 best cores to x52 5366 and see how that goes. They run around 1.496-1.510v in single thread loads but I think they'll survive.
> 
> I also put an offer out on a used 11900K locally. The guy has it in a ASUS board so I asked him to check the SP and if it's like, 76 or above I'll buy it for the 300 asking he has it listed for and just sell this bad one again for around the same as it's just 6 days old.
> 
> EDIT: Seems happy enough to me! No WHEA's yet from the higher cache, no idle freezes, it passes multiple runs (60 min custom) CB R23 Multicore around 1.385v, nice and consistent scores every time, and for the single threaded one at 5366 around 1.465v consistent scores as well. Doesn't hit the 85c throttling point either. Seems to run absolutely fine so far. It's also really liking the RAM here. Latency is down to under 48ns even in G2 and I will tighten up some more tertiaries and such. This was just a baseline.
> 
> View attachment 2570979


Nice 

Are those vf curves specific to 11900k?

I tried to test per core once but voltages were all over the place.

Would really like
1-2cores 52x
3-4 51x
4-8 50x multi

I tired once but with adaptive + offset and it wanted more and then my initial all core 5ghz end up feeding more volts, while light load still wasnt quite it at those 5.1-.5.2ghz..


----------



## Imprezzion

V/F curve can be used with 10th and 11th gen on both Z490 and Z590 and anything newer. It does require BIOS support to use it in BIOS. If your BIOS does not support it natively you can use it within Windows through Intel XTU. 

Keep in mind V/F Curve generally isn't bclk aware so you might need to do some tweaking to find the correct point when using bclk oc. 

It basically takes the Auto vCore VID curve and edits it just like a GPU. This way you don't need adaptive offset anymore and can adjust it way more precisely.


----------



## david azulay

ju-rek said:


> After applying your changes, I have TM5 Error 10 in 1 minute of test.





ju-rek said:


> After applying your changes, I have TM5 Error 10 in 1 minute of test.


That should be the goal in the settings Change each setting and check for errors
TRDWR SG 12 /13/14/15
TRDWR DG 12 /13/14/15
I guess your memories are Samsung B DIE
TRDRD SG 8
TWRWR SG 8

When you increase by one digit increases
TCWL
You need to raise these 2 settings by one digit
example
TCWL 14
TWRRD SG 28
TWRRD DG 24


TCWL 15
TWRRD SG 29
TWRRD DG 25

And you have to check with software
_*y cruncher*_
Stability even if you successfully pass TM5 ANTA777
I find it hard to believe that you will pass with 4000 frequency with VCCSA 1.25V 
on GEAR 1

You can't imagine how many times
I went with a high frequency 
example with my kit on 5400 MHz 19/24/24/48
No errors in TM5 ANTA777 
And the second time I failed in _*y cruncher *_

then must raise or the 
VCCSA or the VDDQ XT 
For me, the only limitation I always limit myself is not to exceed 
1.3V on the VCCSA 

I'm on 5333MHZ I needed at least 1.4 volt VCCSA 
So in the end to meet the goal 1.3V 
I am on the 5000MHZ frequency in Bach18/23/23/43/1T


----------



## ju-rek

Everything goes through my settings.


----------



## david azulay

ju-rek said:


> Everything goes through my settings.


my with 
Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
gear 1 
3733mhz cl14/18/18/34/1T


----------



## ju-rek




----------



## edkieferlp

ju-rek said:


> Everything goes through my settings.


Something looks odd to me in Y cruncher stats, it lists 4700 as max ( should be 4900 stock) and the wattage seems much lower than should (VID's look about right).
I can't compare my TUF Z690 wifi D4 now as I am mildly OC but if memory is right when stock I think I was like 130w or so I know I was below the 155 Intel limit.

Now it is good to get low wattage as long as performance doesn't degrade and your 100 seconds seems good so just seems odd to me.

Are you undervolting?
Just curious but overall everything other than that looks good.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

ViTosS said:


> You don't turn off MRC_Fast Boot right? Because even knowing my OC is stable, if I change that from AUTO to DISABLED, there are some rare occasions where it boots with an improper train and results to errors in TM5, the solution was to let MRC_Fast Boot always ENABLED or AUTO so the board trains every boot/reboot. I was having OC passing TM5 and some days or weeks later getting errors, this way never had that happening again


that’s because it needs to be set to no training once you lock them in.


----------



## jurek.rut

.


----------



## ju-rek

The CPU is on the original clock and undervolting. In bios, it has a reduced CPU Lite Load value, and the voltage is set to Adaptive + offset -0.135V. Cooling is ALF II 360, which in 1440p games can be 300 RPM. It is quiet and efficient.


----------



## TheHunter

Imprezzion said:


> V/F curve can be used with 10th and 11th gen on both Z490 and Z590 and anything newer. It does require BIOS support to use it in BIOS. If your BIOS does not support it natively you can use it within Windows through Intel XTU.
> 
> Keep in mind V/F Curve generally isn't bclk aware so you might need to do some tweaking to find the correct point when using bclk oc.
> 
> It basically takes the Auto vCore VID curve and edits it just like a GPU. This way you don't need adaptive offset anymore and can adjust it way more precisely.


Thanks, I have them VF curves on this Z490 unify, guess I will need another tougher look.

One time when I checked it looked a bit overwhelming, Im still on old 980ti and there is no voltage curve, I m still oldschool lol.. could you maybe post a screen of your setting just to give me an idea


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Newly joined member and wanted to say hi and to thank everyone for the information on here. I had a pretty good start but there is some helpful info and people here! I am not new to PC building or overclocking but only jumped back into it with 10th gen. 

I also wanted to share some of my results. I will do some more testing and think there may be a little left in the tank. I can't drop tRFC any lower without errors in extreme and usmus...mind you only a couple errors after running 3 cycle extreme so I raised to 330 with a little more SA for now. Here are my results:

Edit: Sorry, this is a 3600cl14 kit oc'd to 4400 flat 16s.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> run 1.36 on sa an io, 4300MHZ 1.5v very close to the sub timing you have but now mine is also only 2x8GB sticks
> View attachment 2569935


Did you not train/lock in your RTL/IOLs or were just ion the middle of something? There is a substantial gain there. You should be 62/62/7/7 or possible 8s by the looks of it.


----------



## Martin v r

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Did you not train/lock in your RTL/IOLs or were just ion the middle of something? There is a substantial gain there. You should be 62/62/7/7 or possible 8s by the looks of it.


just bought another set of B-die mem, then I'll find out if it's my ram that's stopping me, or the cpu ,it is 4400MHZ cl19-19-19 1,45v


----------



## ju-rek

edkieferlp said:


> Something looks odd to me in Y cruncher stats, it lists 4700 as max ( should be 4900 stock) and the wattage seems much lower than should (VID's look about right).
> I can't compare my TUF Z690 wifi D4 now as I am mildly OC but if memory is right when stock I think I was like 130w or so I know I was below the 155 Intel limit.


It's correct


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

ViTosS said:


> Well after so many months without BSOD or errors with memory in stress test, I had two weird BSOD's, one was IRQL Not Less Equal and the other showed no BSOD, went straight to hard lock and reboot, but in event logger viewer showed something related to page file, so I think both are related to RAM, I honestly have no idea what would cause that, RAM and CPU are completely stable through many stress tests, but I suspect the Memory Fast Boot option which I left always on AUTO is tricking me, I changed now to ENABLED, but is ENABLED the correct setting? Should I set it to DISABLED or SLOW TRAINING? Because in the past I had this setting at NO TRAINING and got errors sometimes after a while of rebooting/booting the PC.


It should never be left on auto, enabled, disabled or slow training *after* you have your timings that you want and the RTL/IOLs are where you want them. I will try to summarize quickly:

1. a) Under the DRAM page with all the RTLs/IOLS listed, you need to have the Round Trip Latency (the first one in this group) on "dynamic" and everything else AUTO, and,
b) memory fast boot setting is "disabled" or you could use slow training but its not needed

2. you save and reboot and go straight back into the BIOS to see what the RTLs/IOLs are. On your setup they should be something like mine above, 62/62/7/7, 63/63/8/8 or some combo of those. You continue to reboot/goto BIOS until they are same for the channels that your RAM sticks are in ONLY (make sure you know which ones). It should be relatively obvious because you will see they are the lower values that become closer to each other - do not worry at all about the unpopulated slots - their values are irrelevant. You may need to reboot several times although my board never fails on the second attempt and can often do it on the first attempt.

3. As soon as the values are where you want them, you must change two things only:
i. 1(a) above back to auto (from dynamic)
ii. 1(b) fast boot must be set to NO TRAINING

These are now locked in and will not change. If your crashing or other issues its something stability related with your settings etc.

Important: you cannot change any timing settings once you have done this. In order to change any timing setting after you have locked in your RTL IOL you need to set them back to 1(a) and repeat the whole process. This means you need to retrain your RTLs IOLs with this process every time you want to change something in your timings - there is no way around this and it works. You can change your voltages on the main page without retraining.

I know you have had this similar problem for awhile because I have read the last 400 pages of this thread and learned how to properly train the RTLs/IOLs for MSI Z490 mobos - honestly I hope they never change this method because its very helpful once you understand the proper way to do it. I want to thank @Gen. for this explanation quite awhile back - alternatively you can search his posts on here. A couple other people also explained it for MSI specific Z490. I'm afraid to even look at Z590 and onwards if they've changed this.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

pipes said:


> I know but with slow training I want try with slow training enable
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


You can try slow training but its not needed, use "disabled" on the fast boot setting, and keep rebooting back into BIOS, checking every time until they are the same. Then you need to lock em in (see above).


----------



## nikolaus85

Uncle Dubbs said:


> It should never be left on auto, enabled, disabled or slow training *after* you have your timings that you want and the RTL/IOLs are where you want them. I will try to summarize quickly:
> 
> 1. a) Under the DRAM page with all the RTLs/IOLS listed, you need to have the Round Trip Latency (the first one in this group) on "dynamic" and everything else AUTO, and,
> b) memory fast boot setting is "disabled" or you could use slow training but its not needed
> 
> 2. you save and reboot and go straight back into the BIOS to see what the RTLs/IOLs are. On your setup they should be something like mine above, 62/62/7/7, 63/63/8/8 or some combo of those. You continue to reboot/goto BIOS until they are same for the channels that your RAM sticks are in ONLY (make sure you know which ones). It should be relatively obvious because you will see they are the lower values that become closer to each other - do not worry at all about the unpopulated slots - their values are irrelevant. You may need to reboot several times although my board never fails on the second attempt and can often do it on the first attempt.
> 
> 3. As soon as the values are where you want them, you must change two things only:
> i. 1(a) above back to auto (from dynamic)
> ii. 1(b) fast boot must be set to NO TRAINING
> 
> These are now locked in and will not change. If your crashing or other issues its something stability related with your settings etc.
> 
> Important: you cannot change any timing settings once you have done this. In order to change any timing setting after you have locked in your RTL IOL you need to set them back to 1(a) and repeat the whole process. This means you need to retrain your RTLs IOLs with this process every time you want to change something in your timings - there is no way around this and it works. You can change your voltages on the main page without retraining.
> 
> I know you have had this similar problem for awhile because I have read the last 400 pages of this thread and learned how to properly train the RTLs/IOLs for MSI Z490 mobos - honestly I hope they never change this method because its very helpful once you understand the proper way to do it. I want to thank @Gen. for this explanation quite awhile back - alternatively you can search his posts on here. A couple other people also explained it for MSI specific Z490. I'm afraid to even look at Z590 and onwards if they've changed this.


i always change timings after rtl/iol are locked and i am on z490 unify with 10700k.

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## tps3443

GeneO said:


> Even better IMO is to lower the effective TJ max. IME it is more well behaved.


Keeping a CPU cool will keep the CPU alive and well for longer than the life of its effectiveness IMO. 

I have ran CPU’s with lower safe like voltages, but also ran them really really hot with benching or stress testing at 90C+ temps, maybe that occasional 95-100C. And I’ve degraded their silicons ability fairly quickly over the period of 2-4 months.

And on the other hand, I have hammered CPU’s with very high voltages, that others cannot run but never let them exceed 70c as their max, and primarily stayed below 60c on a daily basis, and still haven’t shown any signs of slowing down. (I have a water chiller, with an extreme radiator setup)


Low temps are really the key to longevity. Low temps keep food fresh longer, low temps also keep that silicon fresher longer too lol.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> Keeping a CPU cool will keep the CPU alive and well for longer than the life of its effectiveness IMO.
> 
> I have ran CPU’s with lower safe like voltages, but also ran them really really hot with benching or stress testing at 90C+ temps, maybe that occasional 95-100C. And I’ve degraded their silicons ability fairly quickly over the period of 2-4 months.
> 
> And on the other hand, I have hammered CPU’s with very high voltages, that others cannot run but never let them exceed 70c as their max, and primarily stayed below 60c on a daily basis, and still haven’t shown any signs of slowing down. (I have a water chiller, with an extreme radiator setup)
> 
> 
> Low temps are really the key to longevity. Low temps keep food fresh longer, low temps also keep that silicon fresher longer too lol.


Mine is currently maxing out at mid to high 70's in normal usage (loading screens / shader compiling at 260w) and low 60's while gaming (~180w) like Division 2 or BF2042 128 player multiplayer at around 1.36v ish. Cinebench R23 sees it hitting about 84c on the hottest core after 60 minutes as does AVX2/512 encoding x265 with power consumption sitting around 305w. There is no GPU heat in the loop at that point tho. The loop can handle it, it's just it not being delidded meaning it can't get rid of the heat fast or efficient enough. It should last a while like this tho. Ambients are high, it's like 27c here now.

My RAM is sitting between 40.5 and 42c at 4400C17 1T 1.540v. GPU around 50-53c at 1980Mhz core +1300 VRAM (10700 effective) @ 0.981v drawing 330-340w.


----------



## ViTosS

Uncle Dubbs said:


> It should never be left on auto, enabled, disabled or slow training *after* you have your timings that you want and the RTL/IOLs are where you want them. I will try to summarize quickly:
> 
> 1. a) Under the DRAM page with all the RTLs/IOLS listed, you need to have the Round Trip Latency (the first one in this group) on "dynamic" and everything else AUTO, and,
> b) memory fast boot setting is "disabled" or you could use slow training but its not needed
> 
> 2. you save and reboot and go straight back into the BIOS to see what the RTLs/IOLs are. On your setup they should be something like mine above, 62/62/7/7, 63/63/8/8 or some combo of those. You continue to reboot/goto BIOS until they are same for the channels that your RAM sticks are in ONLY (make sure you know which ones). It should be relatively obvious because you will see they are the lower values that become closer to each other - do not worry at all about the unpopulated slots - their values are irrelevant. You may need to reboot several times although my board never fails on the second attempt and can often do it on the first attempt.
> 
> 3. As soon as the values are where you want them, you must change two things only:
> i. 1(a) above back to auto (from dynamic)
> ii. 1(b) fast boot must be set to NO TRAINING
> 
> These are now locked in and will not change. If your crashing or other issues its something stability related with your settings etc.
> 
> Important: you cannot change any timing settings once you have done this. In order to change any timing setting after you have locked in your RTL IOL you need to set them back to 1(a) and repeat the whole process. This means you need to retrain your RTLs IOLs with this process every time you want to change something in your timings - there is no way around this and it works. You can change your voltages on the main page without retraining.
> 
> I know you have had this similar problem for awhile because I have read the last 400 pages of this thread and learned how to properly train the RTLs/IOLs for MSI Z490 mobos - honestly I hope they never change this method because its very helpful once you understand the proper way to do it. I want to thank @Gen. for this explanation quite awhile back - alternatively you can search his posts on here. A couple other people also explained it for MSI specific Z490. I'm afraid to even look at Z590 and onwards if they've changed this.


I see, but I was having stability problems if I left Memory Fast Boot on NO TRAINING, I used to let Memory Fast Boot on AUTO and then change all timings and the RTL/IOL I simple set Dynamic and they usually are 70/68 and 14/14 so I just go manually and set 63/61 (reduce 7 from each) and go to IOL and reduce the same 7 from each, so they will be 7/7. So after that I used to put NO TRAINING, I boot without any trouble and pass any stress test, but after some days or weeks of various reboots/boots I ended up getting instability, so I thought the problem was the NO TRAINING and apparentely it was, since I'm using it on ENABLED (not AUTO or NO TRAINING anymore) I never had any more problem, NO TRAINING definitely was causing issues to me, but I wonder if I should leave ENABLED or DISABLED because I never understood Memory Fast Boot setting well, if I will have problems in the future with ENABLED I will try DISABLED, but NO TRAINING is a no go for me.

One curious thing is that I thought that could be the problem in the past for me was that I needed 1.270v VCCIO to boot my timings, anything lower than that it would not boot, but if I went after the boot and set to NO TRAINING and then change VCCIO to 1.20v I could boot and pass stress tests for a long time, it's another thing that doesn't make sense to me, I needed 1.270v VCCIO to boot and I could change after that to 1.20v after setting NO TRAINING and still be able to pass stress tests.


----------



## GeneO

tps3443 said:


> Keeping a CPU cool will keep the CPU alive and well for longer than the life of its effectiveness IMO.
> 
> I have ran CPU’s with lower safe like voltages, but also ran them really really hot with benching or stress testing at 90C+ temps, maybe that occasional 95-100C. And I’ve degraded their silicons ability fairly quickly over the period of 2-4 months.
> 
> And on the other hand, I have hammered CPU’s with very high voltages, that others cannot run but never let them exceed 70c as their max, and primarily stayed below 60c on a daily basis, and still haven’t shown any signs of slowing down. (I have a water chiller, with an extreme radiator setup)
> 
> 
> Low temps are really the key to longevity. Low temps keep food fresh longer, low temps also keep that silicon fresher longer too lol.


You are preaching to the choir. LOL. What I meant is throttling using the effective TJMax is more stable when it throttles than when using TVB to throttle at the same temperature cutoff. The effective TJMax will throttle when any core reaches the temperature you set for it using the same mechanism used for the normal TJMax. I have mine set to 80c.


----------



## ViTosS

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Newly joined member and wanted to say hi and to thank everyone for the information on here. I had a pretty good start but there is some helpful info and people here! I am not new to PC building or overclocking but only jumped back into it with 10th gen.
> 
> I also wanted to share some of my results. I will do some more testing and think there may be a little left in the tank. I can't drop tRFC any lower without errors in extreme and usmus...mind you only a couple errors after running 3 cycle extreme so I raised to 330 with a little more SA for now. Here are my results:
> 
> Edit: Sorry, this is a 3600cl14 kit oc'd to 4400 flat 16s.
> 
> View attachment 2571035


Very good OC for a 4 DIMM slot motherboard, I can pass with flat 16s but for some strange reason I can't not no matter what use tFAW at 16 with flat 16s on primaries, so I need to use 16-17-17 on primaries to be able to use tFAW at 16... This is my OC btw:


----------



## ju-rek

Will raising the tRFC from 280 to 300 and the tREFI from 46,000 to 65,000 increase the performance with 4000 CL16? Supposedly, on Intel, raising tREFI to max gives a kick.


----------



## pipes

ju-rek said:


> Will raising the tRFC from 280 to 300 and the tREFI from 46,000 to 65,000 increase the performance with 4000 CL16? Supposedly, on Intel, raising tREFI to max gives a kick.


Why do want raising trfc from 280 to 300? This lower the performance 

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## ju-rek

Lower tRFC and high tREFI increase the memory temperature. So maybe pick up both?


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

ViTosS said:


> Very good OC for a 4 DIMM slot motherboard, I can pass with flat 16s but for some strange reason I can't not no matter what use tFAW at 16 with flat 16s on primaries, so I need to use 16-17-17 on primaries to be able to use tFAW at 16... This is my OC btw:
> 
> View attachment 2571072


even with trrd at 4? I remember reading your posts about it.



I do get an error in extreme and I don’t think it’s heat related cause my temps don’t go above 42 - I run a 2k rpm 120mm on them. but it runs for 3 hours cause its 32gb. I pass ycruncher but I need an avx offset…I’ve never used it until today so I guess I have more to figure out there. Usmus passes and I do absolute As well.


----------



## tps3443

GeneO said:


> You are preaching to the choir. LOL. What I meant is throttling using the effective TJMax is more stable when it throttles than when using TVB to throttle at the same temperature cutoff. The effective TJMax will throttle when any core reaches the temperature you set for it using the same mechanism used for the normal TJMax. I have mine set to 80c.


I have a 1,080x45mm radiator (2) D5’s, and a 1/2HP water chiller. No need to lower or even set a TJMax Lol.


----------



## ViTosS

Uncle Dubbs said:


> even with trrd at 4? I remember reading your posts about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I do get an error in extreme and I don’t think it’s heat related cause my temps don’t go above 42 - I run a 2k rpm 120mm on them. but it runs for 3 hours cause its 32gb. I pass ycruncher but I need an avx offset…I’ve never used it until today so I guess I have more to figure out there. Usmus passes and I do absolute As well.


Yeah even with tRRD 4, to you know even if I put only primaries at 16s and the rest leave on AUTO and set tFAW to 16, I get errors, so the problem is tFAW independent of other timings.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

*SCRATCH ALL OF THAT.

I was tuning while running my CPU at an OC I had not confirmed as stable under AVX loads. Surprise, it wasn't!

I will check back in later with new and much better numbers.*

Turd tier 3600 18-22-22-42 cranked to 1.65v 4800 C19. I think I've rung just about everything I can out of it. Havent verified stability of the tCWL 16 and RDWR_sg and _dg.

Discovered something interesting in the process. Previously I thought RRD_L was stuck at 8. Turns out its fine at 6, but dropping from 8 let tFAW drop below 30 which turns out to be its stable minimum. I was under the mistaken impression that tFAW min was 4x RRD_S, but it's 4x RRD_s OR _l. And higher vSA helped me significantly tighten WRRD and thus both WTRs which is neat.

new:









even newer but possibly unstable:


----------



## pipes

ju-rek said:


> Lower tRFC and high tREFI increase the memory temperature. So maybe pick up both?


really as I understand from the guide the two values are sensitive to temperature and therefore higher temperatures I may have to make you set higher values in tRFC and lower values in tREFI

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

pipes said:


> really as I understand from the guide the two values are sensitive to temperature and therefore higher temperatures I may have to make you set higher values in tRFC and lower values in tREFI
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


They create higher temps as you lower trfc and raise trefi. You can get away with higher trfc if your runnning higher trefi without as much penalty for perf - check out buildzoids reaction to ram timings 4 he made yesterday. Higher trefi can of course cause instability or quietly Corrupt files Hence why we check for stability 🤷‍♂️


----------



## pipes

Uncle Dubbs said:


> They create higher temps as you lower trfc and raise trefi. You can get away with higher trfc if your runnning higher trefi without as much penalty for perf - check out buildzoids reaction to ram timings 4 he made yesterday.


Where?


Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

Uncle Dubbs said:


> They create higher temps as you lower trfc and raise trefi. Higher trefi can of course cause instability or quietly Corrupt files Hence why we check for stability


and you think I don't test stability. you could directly test if those values increase the temperatures as you said you saw from buildzoid
tRFC abbassi per aumentare le performance e tREFI alzi per aumentare le performance

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Taraquin

ViTosS said:


> Very good OC for a 4 DIMM slot motherboard, I can pass with flat 16s but for some strange reason I can't not no matter what use tFAW at 16 with flat 16s on primaries, so I need to use 16-17-17 on primaries to be able to use tFAW at 16... This is my OC btw:
> 
> View attachment 2571072


My experience is the same, on a rev E-kit I had to run RRD\FAW at 5\5\20 at 3500 G1 if I were to use RCD 18, if using 19 I could do 4\4\16 with ease. I would check the games\apps you use and settle for the setting that yields best performance.


----------



## Martin v r

It was my B-die G.skill that had a max of 4300MHZ, everything runs auto in this photo, I have to set up the bios again, and then I'm quite excited to see if these cheap Patriot Vipers can, which are also B - die

for the first time the bios shows that it is possible to run 1T, but I probably won't be able to run that at 4400 + MHZ ?


----------



## ju-rek

You know your VCCSA is set to 1.4V?


----------



## tps3443

ju-rek said:


> You know your VCCSA is set to 1.4V?


I run up to 1.5V. It will not hurt a thing. To even both IO/SA.

1.4v is really nothing to worry about.


----------



## nikolaus85

ju-rek said:


> You know your VCCSA is set to 1.4V?


not only, vccsa 1.4 with mediocre timings.


----------



## nikolaus85

tps3443 said:


> I run up to 1.5V. It will not hurt a thing. To even both IO/SA.
> 
> 1.4v is really nothing to worry about.


do you need 1.4v to run mediocre timings? This thread became a joke.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

nikolaus85 said:


> do you need 1.4v to run mediocre timings? This thread became a joke.


He said everything was on auto…I guess he was just showing his new kit I dunno.


----------



## nikolaus85

Uncle Dubbs said:


> He said everything was on auto…I guess he was just showing his new kit I dunno.


is not good idea to leave sa and io on auto since the board will run them too high (im my case 1.55 and 1.44).

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

nikolaus85 said:


> is not good idea to leave sa and io on auto since the board will run them too high (im my case 1.55 and 1.44).
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


 it is not on auto more,but if it run auto bios set it to 1.4v att 4400MHZ can go in win with 4400MHZ it just can't be stable for testing
but it looks like I can screw up the sub timing a bit more on them here, so there is a bit of a gain with that
but have become so clever now that even with new mem my cpu will not take more than 4300MHZ, I don't know if it will help me to download the latest bios, it doesn't seem like they have fixed anything on the performance

so the next thing must probably be a new cpu


 small update got them stable at 4400, but it was SA volts, just put it to test, and at 1.45v there were again problems


----------



## pipes

Hard boot on 11th with gear1 at 3200 cl16

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

not because I want to go for sa 1.45v, but it didn't help anything with my G.skill , but now these Vipers run 17-17-17 att 1.5v and sa at 1.45v 

but it's as if the performance on my motherboard moves in waves between mhz, it might confuse me a bit


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> Hard boot on 11th with gear1 at 3200 cl16
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Let me know your results!


----------



## david azulay

Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
oc to 5000mhz cl 18/23/23/43 gear 2 
full bios setting photo
mobo asus prime z690 d4 bios 1603 with avx512 micro cod 15 
cpu intel i7 12700k


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

What is the most consistent memory bandwidth benchmark? Having a hell of a time tuning tertiaries because the Intel mlc will swing 2-5gB/s between runs at the same settings


----------



## Martin v r

david azulay said:


> Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38
> oc to 5000mhz cl 18/23/23/43 gear 2
> full bios setting photo
> mobo asus prime z690 d4 bios 1603 with avx512 micro cod 15
> cpu intel i7 12700k


Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38 is it E-die ?? have bought a set ballistix-ddr4-32gb-kit-4400mhz-cl19 to my boy, it's E-die


----------



## Martin v r

f... MSI there are actually 2 places where you have to turn off fast boot in the bios, I only discovered that now, then I finally got Read speed up before writing
in the start menu, and by mem sub timing, had only seen the last one.
now I can go through the process of testing again, gives completely different numbers now,to the good side


----------



## david azulay

Martin v r said:


> Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38 is it E-die ?? have bought a set ballistix-ddr4-32gb-kit-4400mhz-cl19 to my boy, it's E-die


micron b die


----------



## tps3443

david azulay said:


> micron b die


Why does this stuff overclock so well? That’s impressive. I’m wondering if I could get similar results on a Z590 Dark with a really good 11900K. I have never messed with Gear 2 much.


----------



## david azulay

tps3443 said:


> Why does this stuff overclock so well? That’s impressive. I’m wondering if I could get similar results on a Z590 Dark with a really good 11900K. I have never messed with Gear 2 much.


5333Mhz cl19/24/24/48
dram 1.55v
vddq 1.5v
vccsa 1.35v


----------



## tps3443

david azulay said:


> 5333Mhz cl19/24/24/48
> dram 1.55v
> vddq 1.5v
> vccsa 1.35v


Can you tell me what this memory is right here? it’s dual rank. I have never seen it before, but I’d love to try it out!! Too bad it’s so expensive. 




https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_term=%22keyword%22&utm_content=corsair&gclid=Cj0KCQjwguGYBhDRARIsAHgRm4_uH-HfXQIOahTjAS-cEJqFb3jh7MS3DWbrkl5amYyV0MjvpK39_mgaApkNEALw_wcB


----------



## david azulay

tps3443 said:


> Can you tell me what this memory is right here? it’s dual rank. I have never seen it before, but I’d love to try it out!! Too bad it’s so expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK32GX4M2Z5000C18?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_term=%22keyword%22&utm_content=corsair&gclid=Cj0KCQjwguGYBhDRARIsAHgRm4_uH-HfXQIOahTjAS-cEJqFb3jh7MS3DWbrkl5amYyV0MjvpK39_mgaApkNEALw_wcB



The Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-5000 kit is specifically using Micron ICs which they say are cherry-picked for maximum performance. This means Corsair is stating that it is essentially binning its memory ICs to guarantee they can deliver the 5000 MT/s speeds it advertises. With our probing above, it lists the kit using Micron B-Die, which would be somewhat spectacular. We confirmed with Corsair that these are E-die. Interestingly Corsair is using its 8-layer PCB design which is impressive and is likely a reason why it is capable of reaching DDR4-5000 in a low profile kit.


----------



## Martin v r

then I got a bit of a message on TV, whose energy will increase by 5,317.03 usd in more price if we don't take care over winter, so everything oc is put to rest until summer comes 
but we also have to think about the price ukraine is at right now with russ, so you just have to eat it
but a new set of mem, I found out that my DRR4 crontrol in my 10600k is not good, max becomes io 1.35v an sa 1.45v 4400MHZ cl 17-17-17-36 1,50v


----------



## Martin v r

david azulay said:


> 5333Mhz cl19/24/24/48
> dram 1.55v
> vddq 1.5v
> vccsa 1.35v


very nice result,can only say wow


----------



## david azulay

Martin v r said:


> very nice result,can only say wow


ram 5000mhz cl18/23/23/43
cpu 12700k
p core 5.5ghz
e core 4ghz
on air noctua nh15d


----------



## Martin v r

david azulay said:


> ram 5000mhz cl18/23/23/43
> cpu 12700k
> p core 5.5ghz
> e core 4ghz
> on air noctua nh15d


You should have posted that on hwbot,score mem


----------



## david azulay

Martin v r said:


> You should have posted that on hwbot,score mem


I am currently ranked 18th in the world for overclocking DDR4 ram 
in HWBOT


----------



## SoloCamo

Martin v r said:


> then I got a bit of a message on TV, whose energy will increase by 5,317.03 usd in more price if we don't take care over winter, so everything oc is put to rest until summer comes
> *but we also have to think about the price ukraine is at right now with russ, so you just have to eat it*


lol, stop it man and wake up


----------



## tps3443

david azulay said:


> The Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-5000 kit is specifically using Micron ICs which they say are cherry-picked for maximum performance. This means Corsair is stating that it is essentially binning its memory ICs to guarantee they can deliver the 5000 MT/s speeds it advertises. With our probing above, it lists the kit using Micron B-Die, which would be somewhat spectacular. We confirmed with Corsair that these are E-die. Interestingly Corsair is using its 8-layer PCB design which is impressive and is likely a reason why it is capable of reaching DDR4-5000 in a low profile kit.


I could not find any information it anywhere. Nothing on youtube. No one has tested it or reviewed it either. 5,000Mhz DDR4 and it’s dual rank. This is like DDR5 for Rocketlake! lol. I wish I could test some.

I just wish it wasn’t so expensive.


----------



## Skunk0001

david azulay said:


> air noctua nh15d


5.5Ghz @ 1.50V, with an NH15D, and a max temp of 72C?

Whats your ambient temperature, -10C?


----------



## ju-rek

> 5.5Ghz @ 1.50V, with an NH15D, and a max temp of 72C?
> 
> Whats your ambient temperature, -10C?


Let go on these Intel Burn Test settings we will see the stability and temperature.


----------



## pipes

ju-rek said:


> Let go on these Intel Burn Test settings we will see the stability and temperature.
> 
> View attachment 2571592


What linpak version use this Intel burn? Try last linpak version or try with prime95

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## david azulay

Skunk0001 said:


> 5.5Ghz @ 1.50V, with an NH15D, and a max temp of 72C?
> 
> Whats your ambient temperature, -10C?


israel 30c


----------



## ju-rek

Show yours. Linpack Xtreme 1.1.5 from 2020


----------



## edkieferlp

I don't get what are you trying to prove, his 72c is a ST score/temp results. seems about right/believable to me.


----------



## pipes

ju-rek said:


> Lascia andare queste impostazioni di Intel Burn Test, vedremo la stabilità e la temperatura.
> 
> View attachment 2571592
> 
> [/CITAZIONE]
> 
> but 5.5 ghz at 1.5 volt what is?


----------



## Martin v r

okay my new viper 4400MHZ cl 19-19-19-39 2T I just got a test att 4500MHZ cl 19-19-19-39 2T cinebench..
but then it has to go all the way up to SA 1.5v on and then I think it's enough to look for a 10700k or 11700k, which seems to be able to do it at low SA vottage???


----------



## tps3443

Martin v r said:


> okay my new viper 4400MHZ cl 19-19-19-39 2T I just got a test att 4500MHZ cl 19-19-19-39 2T cinebench..
> but then it has to go all the way up to SA 1.5v on and then I think it's enough to look for a 10700k or 11700k, which seems to be able to do it at low SA vottage???


11700K all day long. The thing just hammers. This is also on older microcode and bios. So they have improved much more since they have matured. The only downside to a 11700K is the silicon is not very good, and they do not OC hardly at all. But even stock with optimized memory it’s gonna perform. 

Read this review though:










Intel Core i7 11700KF processor review


We're back at eight Cypress Cove cores, this we test a cheaper priced model, the Core i7 11700KF. That K means it is unlocked, that F means better value as you can shave off a few bucks, this proces... An Introduction




www.guru3d.com


----------



## TheHunter

My 11700KF is quite good - tray version, looks to be newer too, I think it was made December 2021 when I also bought it. It does 5Ghz @ 1.285v, anything more and it starts to eat volts a lot.

Atm at gear 2 4266mhz and blck 103.2 so it makes 4400xmp and for 5055MHZ it wants 1.35v, vid up to 1.37v. Just saw it compile shaders in cod4 mw remake and it hits 75-76C ~ 200w. For example 4.85Ghz also 103.20mhz blck needs only 1.21v


----------



## TheHunter

btw how much VCCIO2 does xmp4400 usually need in gear2

Is VCCIO2 1.39v and VCCSA 1.25v considered a lot? one time I lowered IO2 to 1.35v and it freezed the system rather quickly while playing Destiny2, so guess 1.35v no go?


----------



## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> btw how much VCCIO2 does xmp4400 usually need in gear2
> 
> Is VCCIO2 1.39v and VCCSA 1.25v considered a lot? one time I lowered IO2 to 1.35v and it freezed the system rather quickly while playing Destiny2, so guess 1.35v no go?


I use 1.30v IO2 and 1.40v SA (1.376v after droop) for 4400C17 Gear 2 1T on 4266 + 103.2 BCLK. Can't do any lower. It won't crash per se but it will start to give WHEA errors.


----------



## SoloCamo

Imprezzion said:


> I use 1.30v IO2 and 1.40v SA (1.376v after droop) for 4400C17 Gear 2 1T on 4266 + 103.2 BCLK. Can't do any lower. It won't crash per se but it will start to give WHEA errors.


So what's up with WHEA errors? Are they more reliable for long term stability versus memtest, etc.?


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

Trash bin suicide tune is done. 3600 18-22-22-44 1.35v -> 4800 19-27-25-54 1.65v

Pretty solid numbers for a $120 kit.

Tertiary tuning was a total waste of time. Absolutely no discernible difference in any test I could find


----------



## pipes

What frequency should I expect with driving mode 1? 3200 cl17 shouldn't equal the memory controller? because it can't even start

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

i managed to get 4600 cl16-17-17-36 cr2 1.56v sa 1.36 io2 1.31 with this new configuration while i can't go down to 16 with tRD and tRCD because with occt or who memtest or tm5 i get an error

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## tps3443

TheHunter said:


> My 11700KF is quite good - tray version, looks to be newer too, I think it was made December 2021 when I also bought it. It does 5Ghz @ 1.285v, anything more and it starts to eat volts a lot.
> 
> Atm at gear 2 4266mhz and blck 103.2 so it makes 4400xmp and for 5055MHZ it wants 1.35v, vid up to 1.37v. Just saw it compile shaders in cod4 mw remake and it hits 75-76C ~ 200w. For example 4.85Ghz also 103.20mhz blck needs only 1.21v



That’s pretty good for an 11700K. Most run 4.9Ghz. Best gaming CPU for the money right now, unless you can purchase a $300 dollar 11900K.


----------



## Martin v r

pipes said:


> i managed to get 4600 cl16-17-17-36 cr2 1.56v sa 1.36 io2 1.31 with this new configuration while i can't go down to 16 with tRD and tRCD because with occt or who memtest or tm5 i get an error
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


find max on the cpu first, and then go for mem,have you tried setting the cpu PLL to 1.2-1.23, you can get the voltage down on the cpu, and your mems become a little more stable


----------



## TheHunter

Imprezzion said:


> I use 1.30v IO2 and 1.40v SA (1.376v after droop) for 4400C17 Gear 2 1T on 4266 + 103.2 BCLK. Can't do any lower. It won't crash per se but it will start to give WHEA errors.


Hm isn't higher SA only for gear1?

Im ok with SA at 1.25v, but IO2 1.38-1.39v or it can cause freezes..


----------



## TheHunter

Speaking of cooling, i mounted a mini noctua 80mm fan @1250rpm on top and it dropped my temps from 50c down to 39-40c, not bad, didn't expect such drop to be honest


----------



## pipes

Martin v r said:


> find max on the cpu first, and then go for mem,have you tried setting the cpu PLL to 1.2-1.23, you can get the voltage down on the cpu, and your mems become a little more stable


This not help

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> Hm isn't higher SA only for gear1?
> 
> Im ok with SA at 1.25v, but IO2 1.38-1.39v or it can cause freezes..


Could be, I'm not sure. I kept the same SA for 4400C17 as I had for 3733C15 Gear 1. When I lowered it it gave WHEA errors but that wasn't a fair test as I had cache at 44 and this chip will not run any cache clocks above 43 so maybe it's fine now. IO2 cannot go any lower then 1.30. I have tested that at least on cache 43. I'll lower SA tonight and see what it does. 

My other 11900KF will be here Saturday at least.


----------



## Rbk_3

12900k with MSI Edge DDR4 and my RTLS had been always training at 69/69 and 69/69 but now they are training at 81/81, 73/73 for some reason. If I turn on Round Trip Latency it will be better at 73/73, 71/71 but I don't understand what is happening this is if I load up my same settings as before.


----------



## Imprezzion

Rbk_3 said:


> 12900k with MSI Edge DDR4 and my RTLS had been always training at 69/69 and 69/69 but now they are training at 81/81, 73/73 for some reason. If I turn on Round Trip Latency it will be better at 73/73, 71/71 but I don't understand what is happening this is if I load up my same settings as before.


MSI has multiple RTL training profiles. Do you have it set to enabled, dynamic or disabled now? Dynamic will train the tightest.


----------



## Rbk_3

Imprezzion said:


> MSI has multiple RTL training profiles. Do you have it set to enabled, dynamic or disabled now? Dynamic will train the tightest.


I have never touched that, what ever the default is. I will check that tonight, thanks.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Rbk_3 said:


> I have never touched that, what ever the default is. I will check that tonight, thanks.


Ya, it’s still set fast boot to “disabled” or slow training and in rtl/iol training you set to dynamic. You may have to reboot multiple times checking the rtls/iols until they line up properly, then set fast boot to no training and the other one to auto…you may be able to even leave it on dynamic if you have fast boot on no training but I never tried…I think it’s the same with 12th gen right?


----------



## Nono31

Hi,
Guys i search a version of bios for z490i unify itx .
Someone can help me to find the version 1.32?
I will appreciate.


----------



## Martin v r

Nono31 said:


> Hi,
> Guys i search a version of bios for z490i unify itx .
> Someone can help me to find the version 1.32?
> I will appreciate.


1.32 MSI don't use those numbers, sounds more like asus/asrock


----------



## Martin v r

I bought another set, had a game that used 15.9GB so my mem was put to the test
so now i have Patriot _Viper_ Steel Series Grey DDR4 _4400MHz_ 4x8GB B-die 
intel memory controller you can tell it requires quite a bit more with 4 mem blocks, SA/IO run 1.39v both, only at 4200MHZ 😢
and I can't set sub timing more like I could with 2x8, so I'm a bit confused about what I can do now, the next one will probably be 11700kf


----------



## Martin v r

4x8 GB rtt wr nom park some good tricks ? anyone doing ODT setups?


----------



## Nono31

Martin v r said:


> 1.32 MSI don't use those numbers, sounds more like asus/asrock


I see one guys using it, i dont find it anymore.


----------



## Nono31

Martin v r said:


> I bought another set, had a game that used 15.9GB so my mem was put to the test
> so now i have Patriot _Viper_ Steel Series Grey DDR4 _4400MHz_ 4x8GB B-die
> intel memory controller you can tell it requires quite a bit more with 4 mem blocks, SA/IO run 1.39v both, only at 4200MHZ 😢
> and I can't set sub timing more like I could with 2x8, so I'm a bit confused about what I can do now, the next one will probably be 11700kf


Thats normal i think you cant go higher.
2 sticks SR the best> 2 sticks dual rank >4sticks


----------



## nikolaus85

Nono31 said:


> Thats normal i think you cant go higher.
> 2 sticks SR the best> 2 sticks dual rank >4sticks


dual rank provides better performances than single rank also on a lower frequency.


----------



## Martin v r

my 10600 just has a hard time managing 4 x8GB at high speed, but as soon as I found 4000MHZ the problems disappeared, and then I just have to start from there,I'm still working on them, but it's become far more difficult, this is what I've achieved so far,run WR 80 nom 48 park 60 or they become unstable,many things change with 4x,but they are far better than my g.skill, even if they run with different sub timing


----------



## Nono31

nikolaus85 said:


> dual rank provides better performances than single rank also on a lower frequency.


Interesting i didn't take time to compare it.


----------



## DarkPoe

Has anyone experienced DDR4 voltage being stuck at 1.208V?

I am on a MSI Z690-A Pro DDR4 4x8 3600 CL16 G.Skill Hynix CJR which ran fine 1.4 for my Ryzen 5800X, but now I can't move my voltage on this board with my 12600KF, no matter which number I punch in


----------



## Nono31

Strange if you have dram voltage cell its follow.


----------



## Nono31

Here we go, i break the wall of 34.1ns.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> 4x8 GB rtt wr nom park some good tricks ? anyone doing ODT setups?
> View attachment 2572384


I’m on the same board and would love to know how to set odts. I was using what @Gen. had but I’m not sure it’s the same for my dual rank 2x16 kit. So I started playing with them last night including the training but I don’t think it’s better. I was using 80/0/48 on both. I’ve been reading the Samsung data sheet as well as they have one more for odts etc but it doesn’t really help on how to set them or the guideline.


----------



## Gen.

@Nono31 Eh, I remember such times (an option for every day is stable) - september 2020.


----------



## david azulay

Ram DDR4 _*Crucial Ballistix 2 X 16 32GB kit 3600mhz cl16/18/18/38 *_(micron b-die ) 
oc to 5000mhz gear 2
cl18/23/23/43
CPU 12700K 5.2GHZ all core ring 4800mhz


----------



## Nono31

Gen. said:


> @Nono31 Eh, I remember such times (an option for every day is stable) - september 2020.


Nice ! There are not much aida under 32ns. 
I have an average 10900k i can't push more than 4660mhz ram. My IMC don't permits despite my ram is able to push 4800c16.


----------



## Martin v r

Uncle Dubbs said:


> I’m on the same board and would love to know how to set odts. I was using what @Gen. had but I’m not sure it’s the same for my dual rank 2x16 kit. So I started playing with them last night including the training but I don’t think it’s better. I was using 80/0/48 on both. I’ve been reading the Samsung data sheet as well as they have one more for odts etc but it doesn’t really help on how to set them or the guideline.


dual I use 80 48 34,but for God's sake remember to turn off fast boot, gives a little more bandwidth and more MHZ


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> dual I use 80 48 34


Thanks for the reply. Do you have power down disabled? I thought that meant nom values should be 0 but I guess your stable with those odts? I enabled the odt training and it set mine to:

chan a: 80 0 48
Chan b: 240 0 80


----------



## Martin v r

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Thanks for the reply. Do you have power down disabled? I thought that meant nom values should be 0 but I guess your stable with those odts? I enabled the odt training and it set mine to:
> 
> chan a: 80 0 48
> Chan b: 240 0 80


power down disabled ? yes

setup B-die
4x8GB use 80 48 60 but att 2x 8GB is it 80 48 34 on both canel.this photo is more to show which ones i put in,my cpu will have high sa/io voltage at 4300MHZ 1.38v 4400MHZ 1.4 an 4500 it is 1.45 it can reach 5.2GHZ on water, but I change it to a 11700ks in the hope of being able to hear oc on mem and make sa/io voltage


----------



## Martin v r

MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> power down disabled ? yes
> 
> setup B-die
> 4x8GB use 80 48 60 but att 2x 8GB is it 80 48 34 on both canel.this photo is more to show which ones i put in,my cpu will have high sa/io voltage at 4300MHZ 1.38v 4400MHZ 1.4 an 4500 it is 1.45 it can reach 5.2GHZ on water, but I change it to a 11700ks in the hope of being able to hear oc on mem and make sa/io voltage
> View attachment 2572534


Yes, I knew what values you were talking about. I had one random error at cycle 6 in usmus so trying again to figure out what it doesnt like. Back into bio and enabled training for odt and it them differently - adjusted some voltages. I know what the odt options are (e.g. 240/120/80/60/48/34/0) but no idea what to base it on and too many options/possible combos. After this training it’s different and I have a nom value for the first time. I dont know about you but training the RTLS on this board in dual channel is very hard and I can only get them within 2 of each other. Chan always trains fine at 62/62 but chan b the best I can get is 64/64. Init setting only lets me set it as low as 65 or it wont post and manually setting these doesnt post either at any setting.

ODTs (wr/nom/park)
a: 80/0/48
b: 240/48/40

Here's a shot of my stuff.


----------



## Martin v r

some CPUs have it easier with 133 against the 100, mine is only happy with 100 x ??


Uncle Dubbs said:


> Yes, I knew what values you were talking about. I had one random error at cycle 6 in usmus so trying again to figure out what it doesnt like. Back into bio and enabled training for odt and it them differently - adjusted some voltages. I know what the odt options are (e.g. 240/120/80/60/48/34/0) but no idea what to base it on and too many options/possible combos. After this training it’s different and I have a nom value for the first time. I dont know about you but training the RTLS on this board in dual channel is very hard and I can only get them within 2 of each other. Chan always trains fine at 62/62 but chan b the best I can get is 64/64. Init setting only lets me set it as low as 65 or it wont post and manually setting these doesnt post either at any setting.
> 
> ODTs (wr/nom/park)
> a: 80/0/48
> b: 240/48/40
> 
> Here's a shot of my stuff.
> 
> View attachment 2572541


some CPUs have it easier with 133 against the 100, mine is only happy with 100 , ring bus on mem, I keep 3 und multipliers on the cpu

skew control








The Importance of Skew Control for Memory Overclocking


As the title suggests skew control seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little I spent the day testing different settings to see just how much difference the skew settings make and it seems it won't even boot with many of them I can see now that it would be easy to...




www.overclock.net







https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/docs/programmable/683216/21-3-2-5-0/skew-matching-guidelines-for-ddr4-discrete.html


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> some CPUs have it easier with 133 against the 100, mine is only happy with 100 x ??
> 
> some CPUs have it easier with 133 against the 100, mine is only happy with 100 , ring bus on mem, I keep 3 und multipliers on the cpu


Ya mine only seems to like 133x for the memory. I’ve been getting random shutdowns while gaming even tho usmus passes on various configs…but something is off somewhere. @Gen. your not rocking the z490 tomahawk anymore?


----------



## Martin v r

Rtt canel ; i run on auto ,until I finish setting the sub timing, it's not always as good to set them,still test .not done


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> @Nono31 Eh, I remember such times (an option for every day is stable) - september 2020.


amazing result. Do you think is it possible to stabilize 4533 c16 2x16 dual rank or it would be impossible cause of imc? 

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Gen.

On what board? I stabilized 4533 16-17 at 10400 and at 10600f on an MSI Z490 Tomahawk.
On Z490 Apex 4600 17-17-*1T* is possible (was on 1.540V DRAM).
It depends on what motherboard and processor, and of course the memory


----------



## 2500k_2

Nono31 said:


> Here we go, i break the wall of 34.1ns.
> View attachment 2572483


break the wall of 32ns


----------



## Nono31

nikolaus85 said:


> amazing result. Do you think is it possible to stabilize 4533 c16 2x16 dual rank or it would be impossible cause of imc?
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


Yes i did on z490 formula but its work onoy with one bios. I was stuck at 4266 with other bios.


----------



## Nono31

2500k_2 said:


> break the wall of 32ns
> View attachment 2572573


That 's an awesome memory you have. Thats incredible to make c14 at this frequency.
Which model is it?
Dddr voltage vcio vsa did you manage?
And cpu is pretty good also.


----------



## Nono31

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Yes, I knew what values you were talking about. I had one random error at cycle 6 in usmus so trying again to figure out what it doesnt like. Back into bio and enabled training for odt and it them differently - adjusted some voltages. I know what the odt options are (e.g. 240/120/80/60/48/34/0) but no idea what to base it on and too many options/possible combos. After this training it’s different and I have a nom value for the first time. I dont know about you but training the RTLS on this board in dual channel is very hard and I can only get them within 2 of each other. Chan always trains fine at 62/62 but chan b the best I can get is 64/64. Init setting only lets me set it as low as 65 or it wont post and manually setting these doesnt post either at any setting.
> 
> ODTs (wr/nom/park)
> a: 80/0/48
> b: 240/48/40
> 
> Here's a shot of my stuff.
> 
> View attachment 2572541


I did not practice your mobo model.
IMO its better to let rtl odt training enable.
Reason is this value always change in relation to primary secondary and third timing. If i push far odt and rtl will compensate. If i relax the primary secondary , i can push more rtl. There is a balance. The training mobo to my case was always more accurate than me.
Exemple in 4200 14 14 14 28 1t i have odt 80 0 48.
And in 4666 2t i got 240 x x.


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> On what board? I stabilized 4533 16-17 at 10400 and at 10600f on an MSI Z490 Tomahawk.
> On Z490 Apex 4600 17-17-*1T* is possible (was on 1.540V DRAM).
> It depends on what motherboard and processor, and of course the memory


z490 unify, 10700k and gskill 2x16 4400 c17 18 18.

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Martin v r

Nono31 said:


> I did not practice your mobo model.
> IMO its better to let rtl odt training enable.
> Reason is this value always change in relation to primary secondary and third timing. If i push far odt and rtl will compensate. If i relax the primary secondary , i can push more rtl. There is a balance. The training mobo to my case was always more accurate than me.
> Exemple in 4200 14 14 14 28 1t i have odt 80 0 48.
> And in 4666 2t i got 240 x x.


Okay ? as I read it, ODT is something that controls signals in mem, it goes from 1 to 7, now I have set all mine to fix and 6, so I have to test from there, I can see that it gives a little more bandwidth an more rum to oc mem.I have not changed cl/subtiming only MHZ and the voltage is still the same, it was not possible before ? ODT kan help ,try it


----------



## Gen.

nikolaus85 said:


> z490 unify, 10700k and gskill 2x16 4400 c17 18 18.


Of course it's possible
4533, 1.55DRAM, 16-17-17-37 or 17-17-17-38 or 17-18-18-39, IO 1.34, SA 1.38, tRRD 4, tRRD_L 6, tFAW 16, tCWL 16, rest in auto and try to pass TM5 serj, if everything is fine, work further with lower VDRAM, if not, try ODT WR-Nom-Park = 80-0-48/80-0-40/80-34-48/80-40-48 /80-0-60


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> Of course it's possible
> 4533, 1.55DRAM, 16-17-17-37 or 17-17-17-38 or 17-18-18-39, IO 1.34, SA 1.38, tRRD 4, tRRD_L 6, tFAW 16, tCWL 16, rest in auto and try to pass TM5 serj, if everything is fine, work further with lower VDRAM, if not, try ODT WR-Nom-Park = 80-0-48/80-0-40/80-34-48/80-40-48 /80-0-60


i tried this with 1.56 ram, 1.38 sa and 1.37 io but lots of errors on absolut











Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Gen.

I need bios screenshots, can you provide?


----------



## Nono31

Try trfc=tras x 10
And slighty increase both tras and trfc with respect formula until you don't have any errors.


----------



## Gen.

@Nono31 What kind of nonsense...


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> Of course it's possible
> 4533, 1.55DRAM, 16-17-17-37 or 17-17-17-38 or 17-18-18-39, IO 1.34, SA 1.38, tRRD 4, tRRD_L 6, tFAW 16, tCWL 16, rest in auto and try to pass TM5 serj, if everything is fine, work further with lower VDRAM, if not, try ODT WR-Nom-Park = 80-0-48/80-0-40/80-34-48/80-40-48 /80-0-60


I know I don't have the same CPU or chipset but I decided to give this a try as well as I'm trying to push higher then 4400 on my setup.

I'm using a 11900KF with a Z590 Maximus XIII Hero and 2x16GB Trident-Z Neo 3600C16 B-Die. CPU is a very bad SP50 chip with no IMC whatsoever so it can't run gear 1 properly. I run gear 2 4400 17-17-17-34-320-1T @ 1.52v and Auto ODT.

It does properly boot and train your test settings fine 4533 17-17-17-38 with everything Auto except what you said but timings like tWR is 24, tRFC is 794 and tWTR is like 10/20. That is very high. I know for testing it would be a good thing but.. performance is bad. It is also very unstable. Error #0 and #6 within minutes (tm5 1usmus).

I'm going to try different ODT combinations now and maybe drop to 17-18-18-39.

EDIT: Ok, not going to work with 4533. No matter what I do it errors right awya with error #6.

This is what I currently run on 4400. I can't do tWTR 7 or 6 because if I go under 8/3 the tRDWR won't be stable anymore and needs to go to like 15-15-16-16. This is faster. For some reason AIDA never reads my cache clocks correctly. It always says 3300 when it's running at like, 4100.


----------



## Gen.

On 11Gen Intel best settings RAM 3600-4000 Gear1! Use 3600-3733CL13-14 on 13 hero.

If you want to stay on Gear2, then try this first:
tRRD_L=6, tRDRD_sg=7, tRDRD_dr=6, tWRPRE=36 (tWR=16), tRDPRE=8 (tRTP=8), tRDWR=12, tWRRD_sg=26, PPD=0, TXP=4, tCKE=4, tREFI=65024/65535/32032/32768 or auto.
VCCIO=1.05, VCCIO Mem OC=1.35, VCCSA=1.35 for 4400+


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> On 11Gen Intel best settings RAM 3600-4000 Gear1! Use 3600-3733CL13-14 on 13 hero.
> 
> If you want to stay on Gear2, then try this first:
> tRRD_L=6, tRDRD_sg=7, tRDRD_dr=6, tWRPRE=36 (tWR=16), tRDPRE=8 (tRTP=8), tRDWR=12, tWRRD_sg=26, PPD=0, TXP=4, tCKE=4, tREFI=65024/65535/32032/32768 or auto.
> VCCIO=1.05, VCCIO Mem OC=1.35, VCCSA=1.35 for 4400+


I have to stay gear 2. This CPU only does 3733 max stable gear 1 and not on very good timings so latency is still 42-43ns. With gear 2 I get 45-46ns but way way more bandwidth.


----------



## Gen.

3733CL14/15 CR2 Gear1 намного лучше 4400CL17 CR1 Gear2.
Memory bandwidth is higher due to frequency/sl and no more. In games and any applications working (except synthetics) will be faster Gear1. Check it out on hwbot if you don't trust me


----------



## Nono31

Gen. said:


> @Nono31 What kind of nonsense...


Why Gen?


----------



## Gen.

Because it doesn't work
Try trfc=tras x 10
And slighty increase both tras and trfc with respect formula until you don't have any errors.
tRAS=tCL+tRCD+4
tRFC is a multiple of 8 for 1GB chips and 16 for 2GB chips, the smaller the better, tREFI the bigger the better


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> I need bios screenshots, can you provide?


here is the screenshot of the bios. Thanks in advance i hope you can help me stabilizing this setup


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> 3733CL14/15 CR2 Gear1 намного лучше 4400CL17 CR1 Gear2.
> Memory bandwidth is higher due to frequency/sl and no more. In games and any applications working (except synthetics) will be faster Gear1. Check it out on hwbot if you don't trust me


Maybe I should try to get it stable at 3733G1 then. It always gave me lots of trouble with this chip tho. I'll put some time into it.

Any suggestions on basic timings and voltages to start with? 3733 14-15-15-33-256-CR2 around 1.55v maybe?


----------



## pipes

Motherboard with only two dimm slots make more difference ... I noticed with the z590 unify-x more frequency and better timings for the ram. and the apex seems to have good results and so does the oc formula

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

nikolaus85 said:


> here is the screenshot of the bios. Thanks in advance i hope you can help me stabilizing this setup
> View attachment 2572639
> View attachment 2572640
> View attachment 2572641
> View attachment 2572642
> View attachment 2572643
> View attachment 2572644
> View attachment 2572645
> View attachment 2572646
> View attachment 2572647
> View attachment 2572648
> View attachment 2572649
> View attachment 2572650
> View attachment 2572651


I would try llc 3 and those other digi settings should be auto.


----------



## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> Motherboard with only two dimm slots make more difference ... I noticed with the z590 unify-x more frequency and better timings for the ram. and the apex seems to have good results and so does the oc formula
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


True true.. I wish I had either a Unify-X or an Apex but I can't justify spending that much on a dead platform when I already have a Hero.... Unless someone somehow wants to trade me 1:1 for the Hero.

Edit: Amazon has a Amazon warehouse sold open box Z590 Unify-X for sale locally.. €234... It's very very tempting... Should I?


----------



## Netarangi

Gen. said:


> 3733CL14/15 CR2 Gear1 намного лучше 4400CL17 CR1 Gear2.
> Memory bandwidth is higher due to frequency/sl and no more. In games and any applications working (except synthetics) will be faster Gear1. Check it out on hwbot if you don't trust me


I've got same problem as he does. Gear 1 just doesn't work above 3733mhz for me regardless of how much sa I pump.

I can get 80GBps read and write with gear 2 but latency is around 50-55ns. Gear 1 I can get 43ns but read write is 60GBps.

Does it really balance out if it's 20% lower latency vs 20% faster read speed? I was considering making a Gear 2 profile but no point if it's slower than Gear 1.


----------



## maniakpfs

4000 or 4100 mhz works for 100%. i have 12600k 12700k and 12900kf and all cpu is doing 4100mhz cl15 vdd tx .41v vccsa 1.37v ram 1.61v. stability test Intel-Burn-Test-2.54 veryhigh 4gb y cruncher pi-2.5b MT5 anta 777 6h


----------



## Imprezzion

maniakpfs said:


> 4000 or 4100 mhz works for 100%. i have 12600k 12700k and 12900kf and all cpu is doing 4100mhz cl15 vdd tx .41v vccsa 1.37v ram 1.61v. stability test Intel-Burn-Test-2.54 veryhigh 4gb y cruncher pi-2.5b MT5 anta 777 6h


I'm on 11th gen tho. 11900KF SP50 terrible bin. It just has a very weak IMC.


----------



## pipes

Imprezzion said:


> True true.. I wish I had either a Unify-X or an Apex but I can't justify spending that much on a dead platform when I already have a Hero.... Unless someone somehow wants to trade me 1:1 for the Hero.
> 
> Edit: Amazon has a Amazon warehouse sold open box Z590 Unify-X for sale locally.. €234... It's very very tempting... Should I?


Yes it's true, z590 unify-x at that price is so good...new board can spend 261 € MSI MEG Z590 UNIFY-X - Scheda madre Gaming ATX (supporta processori Intel Core 11th Gen, LGA 1200-16+2+1 Phase 90A SPS, DDR4 Boost (5600 MHz/OC), 1 x PCIe 4.0 x 16, 4 x M.2 Gen 4/3 Wi-Fi 6E. MSI MEG Z590 UNIFY-X - Scheda madre Gaming ATX (supporta processori Intel Core 11th Gen, LGA 1200-16+2+1 Phase 90A SPS, DDR4 Boost (5600 MHz/OC), 1 x PCIe 4.0 x 16, 4 x M.2 Gen 4/3 Wi-Fi 6E. : Amazon.it: Informatica

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

https://www.pcgamer.com/intel-memory-gear-1-vs-gear-2-pc-gaming/



@Gen. 
Interesting benchmarks. This confirms what you said. 3600 Gear 1 basically always beats gear 2 unless gear 2 is set to 4800C19 or similar. So, if I run 3733C15 Gear 1 CR2 I would basically have to run at least 4800C18 CR1 Gear 2 to be faster. I have already tested with 4800 and my RAM does boot 4800 but I have never gotten it stable. 

Any hints for timings, ODT, skews I can try to make 4800 run stable? Maybe 18-20-20-42-390-CR1?


----------



## TheHunter

Idk this 4400 CL17-17-17 trfc 374 seems to be on par if not faster by games where it's more system memory bound.. vs lets say 3600 CL14-15-15, 3733 CL15-15-15 beats it, but just by a hair.. lol 

In that benchmark they used 4400 CL18-19-19, that will lag more for sure,.. but if you look at f1 2020 (very cpu bound) vs super tight 3600 cl14-15-15, 4400 still managed better min fps.



https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/94DFxAirogXns7msJYSaa3-970-80.png.webp





Netarangi said:


> I've got same problem as he does. Gear 1 just doesn't work above 3733mhz for me regardless of how much sa I pump.
> 
> I can get 80GBps read and write with gear 2 but latency is around 50-55ns. Gear 1 I can get 43ns but read write is 60GBps.
> 
> Does it really balance out if it's 20% lower latency vs 20% faster read speed? I was considering making a Gear 2 profile but no point if it's slower than Gear 1.


Well true internal latency between cores is much lower then Aida64 reports. I stopped taking it seriously after this

Powerdown= auto/enabled, Aida64 latency 45-46ns in gear2, intel memory latency reports the same ~46,5ns

Powerdown=disabled, Aida64 latency 49-52ns, intel mlc 42,5ns.















It looks like Aida64 auto adds 4ns, while intel mlc registers properly at least on z490. On comet lake it worked fine, I had 10500 as a placeholder before going to RocketLake and there both got 4ns -/+ if off or on.

I had a option to test on a higher class Asus z590 Hero XIII to really see apples to apples comparison on same cpu/ram, I had it for a week and there it didnt matter if powerdown =1 or 0, latency was a little lower in Aida64 and similar by intel mlc, but still higher then on z490 with powerdown=disabled.


In gear1 with powerdown = disabled I could do 35-36ns by intel mlc, Aida had 46-47ns. I didnt test much gear1 on z590, also I had more trouble with memory settings then on this z490 unifiy, z590 heroxiii couldnt run cl14-14-14 or cl14-15-15 at 3600.


this was when I was still on old 2x8GB, it could do gear1 3733, which made it around 40ns and Aida 42-43ns.














Powerdown= disabled, 3733MHz, 35 and 47ns..


----------



## Imprezzion

I have been trying lots of stuff but I just can't seem to be able to get 3733 to stabilize. It will boot, most of the times, with very loose or auto secondary and tertiary timings with 14-14-14-28-256-2T but as soon as I start to drop the subtimings it just refuses to properly boot. 15-15-15 is better but still can't really boot good subtimings. Hell, it won't even boot with looser timings then I run on 4400C17 gear 2 for most of them. This results in latency being not great. Around the 42-42.5ns mark. Seeing as how even in gear 2 my 4400C17 setup hits around 45.7-46ns there is really no way for gear 1 to be faster. Plus. It takes a massive 1.49v VCCSA voltage to even run TestMem5 at 3733G1 and 4400C17 gear 2 runs fine at just 1.20v IO2 and 1.26v SA keeping temps quite a bit lower.

I'm just going to use my rig at gear 2 4400C17 and enjoy gaming on it. Everything is incredibly smooth and perfect flat 99% GPU usage with zero dips and minimum frame times in for example Division 2 which is very CPU / RAM intensive are super low and smooth.

My CPU is running stock + IABT enabled which is 53x2 51x8 with 41 cache and auto vCore, LLC, AC DC and such. Runs around 1.334v load and barely hits 65c now. It can't do 5.2 all core whatsoever due to core 4 and 6 being very weak (SP50 will do that to ya). I could probably make it run 53x2 52x6 51x8 or even 54x2 53x5 51x8 but it will get way hotter and consume twice the power for maybe 1-2%..


----------



## pipes

I think that cr 1 is a module in a million to be able to keep at 4400 and beyond ... I have never been able to use the cr1

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Gen.

@pipes With Gear2 it's easy on any modules
@Imprezzion 


Spoiler



Extreme Tweaker:
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
PCIE Frequency [100.0000]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Enabled – Remove All limits]
SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [0]
CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
ALL-Core Ratio Limit [49]
BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
Set GEAR1 (1:1)
DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3733MHz]
Xtreme Tweaking [Disabled]
CPU SVID Support [Enabled]

Ring Down Bin [Disabled]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [42]
Max CPU Cache Ratio [42]
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Manual Mode]
- CPU Core Voltage Override [1.250]
DRAM Voltage [1.55000]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.05000]
CPU VCCIO Mem OC [1.35000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [1.35000]
PLL Termination Voltage [1.00000]
PCH Core Voltage [1.00000]

MENU:

DIGI+ VRM:
Voltage Monitor [Die Sense]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 7]
Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Disabled]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
Active Frequency Mode [Disabled]
CPU Power Duty Control [Extreme]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU Power Thermal Control [130]
CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
DRAM Current Capability [130%]
DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]

Internal CPU Power Management:
Maximum CPU Core Temperature [105]
CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.75]
Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
Package Power Time Window [448]
Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
IA AC Load Line [0.01]
IA DC Load Line [0.01]

Thermal Velocity Boost:
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
TVB Ratio Clipping [Disabled]
V-Max Stress [Disabled]

Tweaker's Paradise:
Realtime Memory Timing [Disabled]
FCLK Frequency for Early Power On [1GHz]
DRAM VTT Voltage [Auto]
VPPDDR Voltage [2.50000]
DMI Voltage [Auto]
CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]


DRAM Timing Control:
Maximus Tweak [Mode 2]
DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [14]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]

DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [280]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [4]
DRAM Write Latency [14]

tRDRD_sg_Training [7]
tRDRD_sg_Runtime [7]
tRDRD_dg_Training [4]
tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
tRDWR_sg [10]
tRDWR_dg [10]
tWRWR_sg [7]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [26]
tWRRD_dg [22]
tRDRD_dr [5]
tRDRD_dd [0]
tRDWR_dr [10]
tRDWR_dd [0]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [0]
tWRRD_dr [5]
tWRRD_dd [0]
TWRPRE [30]
TRDPRE [6]
tREFIX9 [127]
OREF_RI [0]
TXP [4]
PPD [0]
MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
Delay after Train [Disabled]
DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
Trace Centering [Disabled]
MCH Full Check [Enabled]
Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
Training Profile [Auto]
DLLBwEn [Auto]
Legacy Mode [Disabled]
SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
XTU Setting [Auto]

MENU:

Skew Control:
ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [48 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [0 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [48 DRAM Clock]
ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [0 DRAM Clock]
*ODT set as such if it does not load in AUTO*

RTL Control - Auto

Memory Training Algorithms:
Late Command Training [Auto] *or Enabled as such if it does not load in AUTO*
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
Rank Margin Tool [Enabled]


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> I have been trying lots of stuff but I just can't seem to be able to get 3733 to stabilize. It will boot, most of the times, with very loose or auto secondary and tertiary timings with 14-14-14-28-256-2T but as soon as I start to drop the subtimings it just refuses to properly boot. 15-15-15 is better but still can't really boot good subtimings. Hell, it won't even boot with looser timings then I run on 4400C17 gear 2 for most of them. This results in latency being not great. Around the 42-42.5ns mark. Seeing as how even in gear 2 my 4400C17 setup hits around 45.7-46ns there is really no way for gear 1 to be faster. Plus. It takes a massive 1.49v VCCSA voltage to even run TestMem5 at 3733G1 and 4400C17 gear 2 runs fine at just 1.20v IO2 and 1.26v SA keeping temps quite a bit lower.
> 
> I'm just going to use my rig at gear 2 4400C17 and enjoy gaming on it. Everything is incredibly smooth and perfect flat 99% GPU usage with zero dips and minimum frame times in for example Division 2 which is very CPU / RAM intensive are super low and smooth.
> 
> My CPU is running stock + IABT enabled which is 53x2 51x8 with 41 cache and auto vCore, LLC, AC DC and such. Runs around 1.334v load and barely hits 65c now. It can't do 5.2 all core whatsoever due to core 4 and 6 being very weak (SP50 will do that to ya). I could probably make it run 53x2 52x6 51x8 or even 54x2 53x5 51x8 but it will get way hotter and consume twice the power for maybe 1-2%..


I wonder if the Unify-X (2 dimm board) would provide better results with gear 1 speeds.


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> @pipes With Gear2 it's easy on any modules
> @Imprezzion
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Extreme Tweaker:
> Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
> BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
> PCIE Frequency [100.0000]
> ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Enabled – Remove All limits]
> SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
> AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [0]
> CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
> ALL-Core Ratio Limit [49]
> BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
> DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
> Set GEAR1 (1:1)
> DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3733MHz]
> Xtreme Tweaking [Disabled]
> CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
> 
> Ring Down Bin [Disabled]
> Min. CPU Cache Ratio [42]
> Max CPU Cache Ratio [42]
> BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Manual Mode]
> - CPU Core Voltage Override [1.250]
> DRAM Voltage [1.55000]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.05000]
> CPU VCCIO Mem OC [1.35000]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [1.35000]
> PLL Termination Voltage [1.00000]
> PCH Core Voltage [1.00000]
> 
> MENU:
> 
> DIGI+ VRM:
> Voltage Monitor [Die Sense]
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 7]
> Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Disabled]
> CPU Current Capability [140%]
> CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
> Active Frequency Mode [Disabled]
> CPU Power Duty Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Thermal Control [130]
> CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
> DRAM Current Capability [130%]
> DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
> Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]
> 
> Internal CPU Power Management:
> Maximum CPU Core Temperature [105]
> CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.75]
> Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> Package Power Time Window [448]
> Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> IA AC Load Line [0.01]
> IA DC Load Line [0.01]
> 
> Thermal Velocity Boost:
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
> TVB Ratio Clipping [Disabled]
> V-Max Stress [Disabled]
> 
> Tweaker's Paradise:
> Realtime Memory Timing [Disabled]
> FCLK Frequency for Early Power On [1GHz]
> DRAM VTT Voltage [Auto]
> VPPDDR Voltage [2.50000]
> DMI Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]
> 
> 
> DRAM Timing Control:
> Maximus Tweak [Mode 2]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [14]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
> DRAM Command Rate [2N]
> 
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [280]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [4]
> DRAM Write Latency [14]
> 
> tRDRD_sg_Training [7]
> tRDRD_sg_Runtime [7]
> tRDRD_dg_Training [4]
> tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
> tRDWR_sg [10]
> tRDWR_dg [10]
> tWRWR_sg [7]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [26]
> tWRRD_dg [22]
> tRDRD_dr [5]
> tRDRD_dd [0]
> tRDWR_dr [10]
> tRDWR_dd [0]
> tWRWR_dr [7]
> tWRWR_dd [0]
> tWRRD_dr [5]
> tWRRD_dd [0]
> TWRPRE [30]
> TRDPRE [6]
> tREFIX9 [127]
> OREF_RI [0]
> TXP [4]
> PPD [0]
> MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
> Delay after Train [Disabled]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Trace Centering [Disabled]
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [Auto]
> Legacy Mode [Disabled]
> SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
> XTU Setting [Auto]
> 
> MENU:
> 
> Skew Control:
> ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [48 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [0 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [48 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [0 DRAM Clock]
> *ODT set as such if it does not load in AUTO*
> 
> RTL Control - Auto
> 
> Memory Training Algorithms:
> Late Command Training [Auto] *or Enabled as such if it does not load in AUTO*
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Enabled]


Thanks man! I have tried these exact settings (except for CPU, x49 static is a bit low, I run 53x2 51x8) and it boots fine. I am running some benches and stress tests now. CPU vCore is quite low with these SVID and LLC settings for 5.1 but so far it stayed stable. It has never completed a Cinebench R23 run at 5.1 @ 1.252v before. 

As for memory, it boots and trains fine with ODT Auto but performance is really really bad. Something is wrong here. I'm getting like, 46gb read / copy.. that can't be right..

EDIT: I figured it out. Some of the tertiary _dd's you had on 0. I can't do that. If I do that performance absolutely drops hard. With them set to the same value as _dr it's fine. 59-60gb read copy.


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> @pipes With Gear2 it's easy on any modules
> @Imprezzion
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Extreme Tweaker:
> Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
> BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
> PCIE Frequency [100.0000]
> ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Enabled – Remove All limits]
> SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
> AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [0]
> CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
> ALL-Core Ratio Limit [49]
> BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
> DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
> Set GEAR1 (1:1)
> DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3733MHz]
> Xtreme Tweaking [Disabled]
> CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
> 
> Ring Down Bin [Disabled]
> Min. CPU Cache Ratio [42]
> Max CPU Cache Ratio [42]
> BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Manual Mode]
> - CPU Core Voltage Override [1.250]
> DRAM Voltage [1.55000]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.05000]
> CPU VCCIO Mem OC [1.35000]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [1.35000]
> PLL Termination Voltage [1.00000]
> PCH Core Voltage [1.00000]
> 
> MENU:
> 
> DIGI+ VRM:
> Voltage Monitor [Die Sense]
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 7]
> Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Disabled]
> CPU Current Capability [140%]
> CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
> Active Frequency Mode [Disabled]
> CPU Power Duty Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Thermal Control [130]
> CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
> DRAM Current Capability [130%]
> DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
> Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]
> 
> Internal CPU Power Management:
> Maximum CPU Core Temperature [105]
> CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.75]
> Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> Package Power Time Window [448]
> Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> IA AC Load Line [0.01]
> IA DC Load Line [0.01]
> 
> Thermal Velocity Boost:
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
> TVB Ratio Clipping [Disabled]
> V-Max Stress [Disabled]
> 
> Tweaker's Paradise:
> Realtime Memory Timing [Disabled]
> FCLK Frequency for Early Power On [1GHz]
> DRAM VTT Voltage [Auto]
> VPPDDR Voltage [2.50000]
> DMI Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]
> 
> 
> DRAM Timing Control:
> Maximus Tweak [Mode 2]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [14]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
> DRAM Command Rate [2N]
> 
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [280]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [4]
> DRAM Write Latency [14]
> 
> tRDRD_sg_Training [7]
> tRDRD_sg_Runtime [7]
> tRDRD_dg_Training [4]
> tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
> tRDWR_sg [10]
> tRDWR_dg [10]
> tWRWR_sg [7]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [26]
> tWRRD_dg [22]
> tRDRD_dr [5]
> tRDRD_dd [0]
> tRDWR_dr [10]
> tRDWR_dd [0]
> tWRWR_dr [7]
> tWRWR_dd [0]
> tWRRD_dr [5]
> tWRRD_dd [0]
> TWRPRE [30]
> TRDPRE [6]
> tREFIX9 [127]
> OREF_RI [0]
> TXP [4]
> PPD [0]
> MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
> Delay after Train [Disabled]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Trace Centering [Disabled]
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [Auto]
> Legacy Mode [Disabled]
> SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
> XTU Setting [Auto]
> 
> MENU:
> 
> Skew Control:
> ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [48 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [0 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [48 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [0 DRAM Clock]
> *ODT set as such if it does not load in AUTO*
> 
> RTL Control - Auto
> 
> Memory Training Algorithms:
> Late Command Training [Auto] *or Enabled as such if it does not load in AUTO*
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Enabled]


what about the 4533mhz ram setup on 10700k with z490 unify? i posted the screenshots of the bios. Thanks.


----------



## Gen.

@Imprezzion Sorry, yes, I forgot that ASUS has dr and dd mixed up. So you can set dd to the positions specified in dr and set _dr in the BIOS to 0.
@nikolaus85 I saw your screenshots. I will review and answer you in the morning (UTC +3 hours)


----------



## pipes

Gen. said:


> @pipes With Gear2 it's easy on any modules
> @Imprezzion
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Extreme Tweaker:
> Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
> BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
> PCIE Frequency [100.0000]
> ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Enabled – Remove All limits]
> SVID Behavior [Best-Case Scenario]
> AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset [0]
> CPU Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
> ALL-Core Ratio Limit [49]
> BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio [Auto]
> DRAM Odd Ratio Mode [Enabled]
> Set GEAR1 (1:1)
> DRAM Frequency [DDR4-3733MHz]
> Xtreme Tweaking [Disabled]
> CPU SVID Support [Enabled]
> 
> Ring Down Bin [Disabled]
> Min. CPU Cache Ratio [42]
> Max CPU Cache Ratio [42]
> BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage [Enabled]
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Manual Mode]
> - CPU Core Voltage Override [1.250]
> DRAM Voltage [1.55000]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.05000]
> CPU VCCIO Mem OC [1.35000]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [1.35000]
> PLL Termination Voltage [1.00000]
> PCH Core Voltage [1.00000]
> 
> MENU:
> 
> DIGI+ VRM:
> Voltage Monitor [Die Sense]
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 7]
> Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Disabled]
> CPU Current Capability [140%]
> CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Auto]
> VRM Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
> Active Frequency Mode [Disabled]
> CPU Power Duty Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
> CPU Power Thermal Control [130]
> CPU VRM Thermal Control [Enabled]
> DRAM Current Capability [130%]
> DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
> Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [500]
> 
> Internal CPU Power Management:
> Maximum CPU Core Temperature [105]
> CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max. [255.75]
> Long Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> Package Power Time Window [448]
> Short Duration Package Power Limit [4095]
> IA AC Load Line [0.01]
> IA DC Load Line [0.01]
> 
> Thermal Velocity Boost:
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Disabled]
> TVB Ratio Clipping [Disabled]
> V-Max Stress [Disabled]
> 
> Tweaker's Paradise:
> Realtime Memory Timing [Disabled]
> FCLK Frequency for Early Power On [1GHz]
> DRAM VTT Voltage [Auto]
> VPPDDR Voltage [2.50000]
> DMI Voltage [Auto]
> CPU Standby Voltage [1.00000]
> 
> 
> DRAM Timing Control:
> Maximus Tweak [Mode 2]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [14]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
> DRAM Command Rate [2N]
> 
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [280]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65024]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [4]
> DRAM Write Latency [14]
> 
> tRDRD_sg_Training [7]
> tRDRD_sg_Runtime [7]
> tRDRD_dg_Training [4]
> tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
> tRDWR_sg [10]
> tRDWR_dg [10]
> tWRWR_sg [7]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [26]
> tWRRD_dg [22]
> tRDRD_dr [5]
> tRDRD_dd [0]
> tRDWR_dr [10]
> tRDWR_dd [0]
> tWRWR_dr [7]
> tWRWR_dd [0]
> tWRRD_dr [5]
> tWRRD_dd [0]
> TWRPRE [30]
> TRDPRE [6]
> tREFIX9 [127]
> OREF_RI [0]
> TXP [4]
> PPD [0]
> MRC Fast Boot [Auto]
> Delay after Train [Disabled]
> DRAM CLK Period [Auto]
> Memory Scrambler [Enabled]
> Channel A DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Channel B DIMM Control [Enable both DIMMs]
> Trace Centering [Disabled]
> MCH Full Check [Enabled]
> Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
> Training Profile [Auto]
> DLLBwEn [Auto]
> Legacy Mode [Disabled]
> SPD Write Disable [TRUE]
> XTU Setting [Auto]
> 
> MENU:
> 
> Skew Control:
> ODT RTT WR (CHA) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHA) [48 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHA) [0 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT WR (CHB) [80 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT PARK (CHB) [48 DRAM Clock]
> ODT RTT NOM (CHB) [0 DRAM Clock]
> *ODT set as such if it does not load in AUTO*
> 
> RTL Control - Auto
> 
> Memory Training Algorithms:
> Late Command Training [Auto] *or Enabled as such if it does not load in AUTO*
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Enabled]


sorry, I did not specify the type of processor, I meant the 10 series but still I could not even try with the 11 series ... now I have nothing and I'll see what to do

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

Gen. said:


> @Imprezzion Sorry, yes, I forgot that ASUS has dr and dd mixed up. So you can set dd to the positions specified in dr and set _dr in the BIOS to 0.
> @nikolaus85 I saw your screenshots. I will review and answer you in the morning (UTC +3 hours)


No worries, it worked wonders. I still have to set the _dr to 0 but k. I can't run tRCD/tRP at 14, it will throw 20 errors in 10 minutes however, the exact same settings as you said but with 14-15-15-33 works totally fine. I tested for 4.5 hours and it's absolutely stable. It performs really well as well in AIDA but still can't get under 40ns. It's right there, but won't go under. It is very consistent tho. Like 10-15 runs all 40.1-40.2ns. Don't mind AIDA's clockspeeds, I still run power saving / EIST / C-States and everything enabled and it never reads right..


----------



## Martin v r

why do you run so low with your north bridge clock ? edit only sees now that you have not overclocked the cpu


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> why do you run so low with your north bridge clock ? edit only sees now that you have not overclocked the cpu


The CPU is manually set to 53x2 51x8 with 4200 cache / northbridge. It's all it's got mate. It's SP50 and core 4 and 6 are too weak to run 5.2 stable. It also cannot run 43 cache or higher stable. This is basically identical to running it "stock" with IABT enabled. Stock all core is 49 and 40 cache so it is technically overclocked still.

I can push it to 5.2 all core and 44 cache and be stable but it'll take around 1.46v to do so and that isn't efficient at all and makes it 20c hotter. 

I'm ordering another K (not a KF) this weekend just cause I'm fed up with this chip lol.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> The CPU is manually set to 53x2 51x8 with 4200 cache / northbridge. It's all it's got mate. It's SP50 and core 4 and 6 are too weak to run 5.2 stable. It also cannot run 43 cache or higher stable. This is basically identical to running it "stock" with IABT enabled. Stock all core is 49 and 40 cache so it is technically overclocked still.
> 
> I can push it to 5.2 all core and 44 cache and be stable but it'll take around 1.46v to do so and that isn't efficient at all and makes it 20c hotter.
> 
> I'm ordering another K (not a KF) this weekend just cause I'm fed up with this chip lol.


okay bad chip


----------



## Gen.

@Imprezzion Are you OK. Further, only if you go 3800+ or make Command Rate N: 1 + N to Ratio =1


----------



## Gen.

@nikolaus85
CR=2N
tRAS=37
_WR timings = Main Timings
tRRD_L=6 better 4
tCCD=4, tCCD_L=7, tCCD_L_MR=7
tRDRD_sg=7, tRDRD_dg=4, tRDRD_dr=5
tWRWR_sg=7, tWRWR_dg=4, tWRWR_dr=7
RTL - Auto + Dynamic Mode. Training to MRC Fast Boot=Disabled to iol 7 or 8, 9 is bad.
PDM=Disabled, PPD auto
Turn Arround Timing Training=Disabled
Rank Marging Tool=Enabled
Memory Test=Disabled
CMD Normalization may be Enabled or Auto


As for Vref on the MSI board, I will not tell you. Better ask @2500k_2 , but for 4533 on a Z490 Tomahawk I didn't need that.

Try also WR-Nom-Park=80-0-48 for both channels


----------



## Nono31

Gen. said:


> Because it doesn't work
> Try trfc=tras x 10
> And slighty increase both tras and trfc with respect formula until you don't have any errors.
> tRAS=tCL+tRCD+4
> tRFC is a multiple of 8 for 1GB chips and 16 for 2GB chips, the smaller the better, tREFI the bigger the better


Ok thank you the answer. 👍


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> @nikolaus85
> CR=2N
> tRAS=37
> _WR timings = Main Timings
> tRRD_L=6 better 4
> tCCD=4, tCCD_L=7, tCCD_L_MR=7
> tRDRD_sg=7, tRDRD_dg=4, tRDRD_dr=5
> tWRWR_sg=7, tWRWR_dg=4, tWRWR_dr=7
> RTL - Auto + Dynamic Mode. Training to MRC Fast Boot=Disabled to iol 7 or 8, 9 is bad.
> PDM=Disabled, PPD auto
> Turn Arround Timing Training=Disabled
> Rank Marging Tool=Enabled
> Memory Test=Disabled
> CMD Normalization may be Enabled or Auto
> 
> 
> As for Vref on the MSI board, I will not tell you. Better ask @2500k_2 , but for 4533 on a Z490 Tomahawk I didn't need that.
> 
> Try also WR-Nom-Park=80-0-48 for both channels


thanks. I tried but always errors. Maybe i am just imc limited. 

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nono31

nikolaus85 said:


> thanks. I tried but always errors. Maybe i am just imc limited.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


Did you buy OEM or box cpu?


----------



## nikolaus85

Nono31 said:


> Did you buy OEM or box cpu?


box cpu. I don't see the sense of the question.

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## PapaFlock

How does it seem?having no issue yet. doing testing via warzone, only because i wanna play but it's the only thing i play. 
2x8gb Viper 4400. clocked as u see.


----------



## Nono31

nikolaus85 said:


> box cpu. I don't see the sense of the question.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


By curiosity, there is no garantie with oem that chips hasn't be tested and some were selected before order.


----------



## Nono31

PapaFlock said:


> How does it seem?having no issue yet. doing testing via warzone, only because i wanna play but it's the only thing i play.
> 2x8gb Viper 4400. clocked as u see.
> View attachment 2573168


Latency is good. Maybe try to push more north bridge 4200,4300mhz, if you are lucky you can try 4400mhz with e core on. and a lot of more with e core off. It could be interesting if its work to make a try at 3900mhz 13 13 13 28. If it pass, i think you can improve latency.


----------



## Netarangi

Can now run 3800 1:1 stable since the 2004 ASUS bios update so I have started OC all over again..

I set the following..

14-15-15-28
Freq - 3800 1:1
VDIMM - 1.48
SA - 1.28
TX - 1.28

These settings were stable and I had 60,000 MBps, 44ns.

I then set TRFC 240 and TREFI 65536, jumped to 60,500 & 42ns.

*Any *further optimizations on other timings gave absolutely no change to bandwidth or latency. I am using the above timings now as no other alterations impact performance negatively or positively.. Latency stays exactly at 42ns every test, consistently. Did I hit a wall?

Ram is B die Corsair Vengeance LPX CL16 4000mhz. 12700KF


----------



## bscool

Netarangi said:


> View attachment 2573187
> 
> 
> Can now run 3800 1:1 stable since the 2004 ASUS bios update so I have started OC all over again..
> 
> I set the following..
> 
> 14-15-15-28
> Freq - 3800 1:1
> VDIMM - 1.48
> SA - 1.28
> TX - 1.28
> 
> These settings were stable and I had 60,000 MBps, 44ns.
> 
> I then set TRFC 240 and TREFI 65536, jumped to 60,500 & 42ns.
> 
> *Any *further optimizations on other timings gave absolutely no change to bandwidth or latency. I am using the above timings now as no other alterations impact performance negatively or positively.. Latency stays exactly at 42ns every test, consistently. Did I hit a wall?
> 
> Ram is B die Corsair Vengeance LPX CL16 4000mhz. 12700KF


It depends what you use to test. Things like photoworxx, y cruncher, Pyprime and other memory benchmarks will show difference in subtimings. But there gets a point where the difference are so small it is fractions of a percent so it takes different test than bandwidth or latency to see them.


----------



## iceboy

I'm trying to get 4800 gear 2 CR1 stable with 12700K. I have a Samsung B-die 8GBx2 kit that can run 4800 starting at 1.32V. It runs stable at 4600 CR1, or 4800 CR2, however 4800 CR1 is sometimes stable and sometimes not, even with relaxed timings. What could be the bottleneck here: CPU, MB or RAM? Can Hynix DJR do better in this case? Thanks

CPU: 12700K 48/0/45 Vcore 1.30V VCCSA 1.30V VDDQ 1.40V
MB: MSI Z690 Edge DDR4, BIOS 1.00
RAM: Samsung B-die 1.50V 18-22-22-48 CR1 RTL 48/48 (full timings)


----------



## Gen.

nikolaus85 said:


> thanks. I tried but always errors. Maybe i am just imc limited.


Try 1.6VDRAM, 1.38 IO, 1.45 SA to see if your motherboard can do it


----------



## Gen.

@Netarangi for best result (screenshot)

@iceboy Best - 4000-4200cl15!


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> Try 1.6VDRAM, 1.38 IO, 1.45 SA to see if your motherboard can do it


1.6vdram is not dangerous? I am not liquid cooling.

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Gen.

If the temperature does not exceed 40-50 degrees, then it is normal. Just need to check what happens


----------



## nikolaus85

Gen. said:


> If the temperature does not exceed 40-50 degrees, then it is normal. Just need to check what happens


till now i run 1.56 vdram and in stress test temps never exced 50 degress, also in the summer. The ram are ripjaws rated at 1.5v for 4400 c 17 18 18.


----------



## pipes

on the Samsung datasheet of and that the modules can operate at voltages of 1.5 but pay attention to point 1: Stresses greater than those listed under "Absolute Maximum Ratings" may cause permanent damage to the device. This is a stress rating only and functional operation of the
device at these or any other conditions above those indicated in the operational sections of this specification is not implied. Exposure to absolute maximum rating conditions
for extended periods may affect reliability

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## zebra_hun

A really nice 24/7 setup is for me:

DRAM: *1.395V*
VCCIO /SA: *1.12V*
Freq: 4133MHz

64 64 63GB/s and 37-38ns.

*4133MHz Profil, best 24/7*

Yep, created harder profil, too.
4400MHz, tested TM5 Absolut, GSat.
But much more voltages...
I'm not sure, this is a good daily settings, or not, it's on limit.

DRAM: 1.465V
VCCIO / SA: 1.23V
Freq: 4400MHz

68 68 66 GB/s and 36ns.

4400MHz part1
4400MHz part2

Created a profil for benchmarking, but it's extreme high voltages. 1-2 min long run still ok, but for daily..., i think no.

DRAM: 1.57V
VCCIO / SA: 1.37V

70 70 68GB/s and 34-35ns.

4533MHz Cl16 Profil
4533MHz CbR23

This is not a 24/7 settings, for fun benching is ok.

The first 4133MHz with extreme low voltages is the best profil, because i've got 144Hz monitor, don't need more fps. Playing 1440 maxed out graphics with an rtx3080.
Whole summer downclocked to ac 48x/[email protected], the low fps are super, cpu and gpu ~30-35°C in game.
Personaly don't need higher frequenz, right me max 4.8 or 5GHz.

Maxed out 1440 videos:
Recorded 48x/45x, this is my daily settings with normal water, not chilled.

Bf5 YT Link
FH5 YT Link


----------



## Martin v r

Gen. said:


> @Netarangi for best result (screenshot)
> 
> @iceboy Best - 4000-4200cl15!


can see in the photo you suggest that one of them set to 0? what is the benefit of it


----------



## edkieferlp

Martin v r said:


> can see in the photo you suggest that one of them set to 0? what is the benefit of it


those are on timing there are not used with only 2 sticks (xxxx_dr/xxxx_dd (some set to 1 others just leave them alone). The timings with xxxx_sg and xxxx_dg are ones used in that config.


----------



## Martin v r

There is a big difference between using 2 slots versus 4, I have learned,I don't have the best cpu
2 slots max MHZ 4500MHZ an 4 is it 4100MHZ
but that's because I don't want the SA/IO voltage above a 1.38v
It's not my memes that stop me
they also run fine cl 14-14-14-35 4000MHZ, but the last MHZ and slightly right cl give more bandwidth
*Patriot Viper Steel Series Grey DDR4 4400MHz cl 19*


----------



## The Pook

Martin v r said:


> it's not my memes that stop me


put that on my tombstone


----------



## iceboy

Gen. said:


> @Netarangi for best result (screenshot)
> 
> @iceboy Best - 4000-4200cl15!


I need 4800 gear 2 because it feels much better in a game. I can get good performance numbers with other configs (4000 gear 1) but I can't make it feel good in the game. Part of the feeling is related to subtimings but it seems like Intel's IMC like to work at 2400, e.g. in Skylake (6-10th gen) the game feels better in 2400 than higher freqs so I used 2400 9-9-28-1 for a while. I don't have any measurement that correlates with the game feeling (not memory bandwidth or latency, not FPS, not frame time), and all I can do is try different configs.


----------



## o1dschoo1

iceboy said:


> I need 4800 gear 2 because it feels much better in a game. I can get good performance numbers with other configs (4000 gear 1) but I can't make it feel good in the game. Part of the feeling is related to subtimings but it seems like Intel's IMC like to work at 2400, e.g. in Skylake (6-10th gen) the game feels better in 2400 than higher freqs so I used 2400 9-9-28-1 for a while. I don't have any measurement that correlates with the game feeling (not memory bandwidth or latency, not FPS, not frame time), and all I can do is try different configs.


Gear 2 doesn't run mem controller at 1:1 with memory


----------



## Imprezzion

Only real world measurable repeatable thing I observed on 11th gen so far is with 4400C17 Gear 2 GPU usage is a jagged line jumping from 96-99% all the time and power draw reflects that. It doesn't "feel" bad or stuttery in game tho but the capframex monitoring shows it in frame time consistency as well. 

On 3733C14 Gear 1 it's perfectly flat line 100% usage and power as well. And better 0.1% lows. Average doesn't change at all.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> Only real world measurable repeatable thing I observed on 11th gen so far is with 4400C17 Gear 2 GPU usage is a jagged line jumping from 96-99% all the time and power draw reflects that. It doesn't "feel" bad or stuttery in game tho but the capframex monitoring shows it in frame time consistency as well.
> 
> On 3733C14 Gear 1 it's perfectly flat line 100% usage and power as well. And better 0.1% lows. Average doesn't change at all.


plays cs go, which has high MHZ an low CL = bandwidth great effect on fps, high and constant fps, also applies to many of my other games


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> plays cs go, which has high MHZ an low CL = bandwidth great effect on fps, high and constant fps, also applies to many of my other games


I was testing with Division 2 and Saints Row on 1080p max settings (with RT on in Saints Row). Both very CPU intensive but not very fast paced.

I gave up on CSGO. I can't be bothered to have to pay for a 3rd party matchmaker to not run into Russian trolls and cheaters the whole time. I used to hang between supreme and global consistently but now I can't even maintain LEM anymore with all the trolls..


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> I was testing with Division 2 and Saints Row on 1080p max settings (with RT on in Saints Row). Both very CPU intensive but not very fast paced.
> 
> I gave up on CSGO. I can't be bothered to have to pay for a 3rd party matchmaker to not run into Russian trolls and cheaters the whole time. I used to hang between supreme and global consistently but now I can't even maintain LEM anymore with all the trolls..


it's not because you get so many more fps out of them, but what you have to look for is the fps drop, the fps becomes much more stable


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> it's not because you get so many more fps out of them, but what you have to look for is the fps drop, the fps becomes much more stable


For me on 11th gen that happens with gear 1. My DIMM's can't go high enough MHz in gear 2 to really test this. I can't run above 4533. 4800 is just not stable on my 3600C16's at any voltage or timing.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> For me on 11th gen that happens with gear 1. My DIMM's can't go high enough MHz in gear 2 to really test this. I can't run above 4533. 4800 is just not stable on my 3600C16's at any voltage or timing.


Patriot Extreme Performance Viper Steel 4400 cl 19 allows me to set very low sub timing, my G.skill 4000 cl 17 should have more volts and sub timing was not as good at the same MHz
Patriot Extreme costs ½ of G.skill


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> Patriot Extreme Performance Viper Steel 4400 cl 19 allows me to set very low sub timing, my G.skill 4000 cl 17 should have more volts and sub timing was not as good at the same MHz
> Patriot Extreme costs ½ of G.skill


Patriot 2x16GB 4000+MHz kits are unfortunately not available here in the Netherlands. Otherwise I would've bought a kit already hehe. 

Maybe I should buy a kit from another EU country.. let me search a bit..


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> Patriot 2x16GB 4000+MHz kits are unfortunately not available here in the Netherlands. Otherwise I would've bought a kit already hehe.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a kit from another EU country.. let me search a bit..


https://computerknallers.nl/patriot...gb-dimm-ddr4-4000-mhz-cl20-pve2432g400c0k-rev don't know which mem chip is on them, I drive with 4x8 which are a bit difficult

updat chip is hynix ,not the best of them


----------



## Imprezzion

Martin v r said:


> https://computerknallers.nl/patriot...gb-dimm-ddr4-4000-mhz-cl20-pve2432g400c0k-rev don't know which mem chip is on them, I drive with 4x8 which are a bit difficult


Yeah there is no 32GB dual rank kit for the Patriots unfortunately. I wanna stick to dual rank cause if I ever end up buying a Unify-X or a Apex I only have 2 slots.


----------



## Martin v r

rtl and iol timings on msi z490 tomahawk 4x8gb b-die
very confused 
auto/dynamic = different setups all the time
if I try to set them, it works 1 or 2/3 times, and then I have to set it up again  
sometimes the PC starts up with 59/60 7-7-7-7 and I have a good bandwidth, but if I try to put the same numbers in the bios myself, it gives an error


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> rtl and iol timings on msi z490 tomahawk 4x8gb b-die
> very confused
> auto/dynamic = different setups all the time
> if I try to set them, it works 1 or 2/3 times, and then I have to set it up again
> sometimes the PC starts up with 59/60 7-7-7-7 and I have a good bandwidth, but if I try to put the same numbers in the bios myself, it gives an error


Once you them where you want, set that to auto, AND, change the fast boot option on the main menu to “no training.” It won’t change if you do that.

If you want to change ANYTHInG in the future, You have to set fast boot back to disabled (and rtl to dynamic or auto) and keep training until you get what you need and lock it down again.

Honestly the training is hard. Best I can do is 63/65; 7/7 or something but I’m using dr 2x16.


----------



## Martin v r

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Once you them where you want, set that to auto, AND, change the fast boot option on the main menu to “no training.” It won’t change if you do that.
> 
> If you want to change ANYTHInG in the future, You have to set fast boot back to disabled (and rtl to dynamic or auto) and keep training until you get what you need and lock it down again.
> 
> Honestly the training is hard. Best I can do is 63/65; 7/7 or something but I’m using dr 2x16.


now I've tried everything, I could set it with 2 mem block, but can't be allowed to do it with 4, bios bug
it's best, just leave it on auto, I'll get the small numbers there


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> now I've tried everything, I could set it with 2 mem block, but can't be allowed to do it with 4, bios bug
> it's best, just leave it on auto, I'll get the small numbers there


when You set it to No training it still changes? You should email msi about that and they will probably do a bios update…or maybe it’s your board.


----------



## Martin v r

No training ? no 
have been through them all to test, they don't move
I have the last update on


----------



## Outis

PhoenixMDA said:


> You feeling of smother gaming is a delusion, for have a better frametime/ less or no spike´s are bigger changes in performance neccesary.Most people have spike´s at fill up shader cache while gaming.
> [/QUOTE How are you curtain? In some games I too have noticed stuttering when tras was at 28 despite being stable and increasing it fixed this but most games this didn't occur. I knew exactly what he meant. Also not delusional, psychological you meant (if you are correct) so either it was both in our heads and something else was causing it or you don't game or haven't played very many and experienced it and I'm going to assume you don't code because a game depending on how optimized the game is and how it's coded can will and does affect performance regardless of timings or stability I just find it unlikely the same timing causing the sake problem and both doing the same thing solved it I find unlikely not impossible tho is only reason I'm curious to why you said that couldn't be true or in your words "delusional"


----------



## Nono31

Martin v r said:


> No training ? no
> have been through them all to test, they don't move
> I have the last update on


Try an another bios version in case of.


----------



## Martin v r

Nono31 said:


> Try an another bios version in case of.


have written to MSI, they will look into it


----------



## SoloCamo

Haven't pulled the trigger on a better kit yet but I wanted to tune the one I have so when I give it to my nephew I have a bit of a baseline.

tRFC was already lowered from 1023 (when set to auto) to 900 which I understand is horrible but it doesn't seem to like below. Is there anything glaringly obvious that can be targetted? This is again a cheap kit of T-Force Vulcan Z ddr4 3600 cl18-22-22-42 c2 currently running at the same xmp timings just at 4000mhz. Currently at 1.45v from 1.35v.


----------



## Nono31

@SoloCamo, first thing you need to check the ram temperarure stabilized when you play if you use for it.
In second part in fonction the temperature, you should aim in worst case trfc 400-360.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Nono31 said:


> @SoloCamo, first thing you need to check the ram temperarure stabilized when you play if you use for it.
> In second part in fonction the temperature, you should aim in worst case trfc 400-360.


these arent bdie he's posting, they wont do trfc that low


----------



## Nono31

Uncle Dubbs said:


> these arent bdie he's posting, they wont do trfc that low


I will make a check of minimun Trfc considering different class die ram


----------



## SoloCamo

Nono31 said:


> @SoloCamo, first thing you need to check the ram temperarure stabilized when you play if you use for it.
> In second part in fonction the temperature, you should aim in worst case trfc 400-360.


No temp sensor unfortunately on this kit. At 1.45, anything below 900 at 4000mhz is unstable. XMP at 3600 is actually 990 for trfc as is. Again, a cheap kit of ram when DDR4 was near it's peak 'recent' pricing.

This is the kit, it cost about $160 when I got it but now it's $95.









Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 - Newegg.com


Buy Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> This is the kit, it cost about $160 when I got it but now it's $95.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model TLZRD432G3600HC18JDC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


what IC? reviews on Newegg are all over the place, apparently they're sold with everything 🙃



SoloCamo said:


> is there anything glaringly obvious that can be targetted?


all of them

dunno much outside B-Die but tWR, tFAW, tCWL, tRDWR, and tWWRD are all high for 4000.


----------



## Martin v r

SoloCamo said:


> Haven't pulled the trigger on a better kit yet but I wanted to tune the one I have so when I give it to my nephew I have a bit of a baseline.
> 
> tRFC was already lowered from 1023 (when set to auto) to 900 which I understand is horrible but it doesn't seem to like below. Is there anything glaringly obvious that can be targetted? This is again a cheap kit of T-Force Vulcan Z ddr4 3600 cl18-22-22-42 c2 currently running at the same xmp timings just at 4000mhz. Currently at 1.45v from 1.35v.
> 
> View attachment 2573753


try to set RTT wr norm park


----------



## Martin v r

I use cinebench r20 to find out where you win the most, a stable overclock moves the score max 2-5 points
if you test the same overclock several times
RTT wr norm park has a lot to say
right now I run on air, so my cpu runs a bit low 4.9 on water I can run 5.1+ just fine
it is far difficult to manage 4x8GB vs 2x8GB/2x16GB,but it just makes me want to fight more, my big challenge right now is to keep the SA voltage at 1.38v and get a little more MHZ on my mem
I have run 4300MHZ at the same sub timing as 4100MHZ, but the SA voltage was 1.46v, where it could do the same with 2x8GB only at 1.38v
so now it's about finding errors in this bios, so I can pass.

I found some nasty bugs yesterday in it, try it? certainly bios with xmp 4200MHZ bios = win 4100 and bios 4266= 4200, bios itself sets SA voltage to 1.46v with try it
so I'm not going to look at that anymore.

RTT wr norm park 80-60-60 vs 80-48-60 4x8GB whit 2x8GB it is 80-48-34 patriot viper 4400mhz cl19 an G.skill 4000MHZ cl 17









patriot viper 4400mhz cl19 are the mem I've had the best sub timing on,even though I've been a G.skill fan for over 10 years, they lose right here


----------



## Imprezzion

Is there a noticable performance difference between SR vs DR? It's impossible to find DR B-Die kits for a normal price here in the Netherlands at the moment so I was looking at 4x8 SR kits.


----------



## Martin v r

Imprezzion said:


> Is there a noticable performance difference between SR vs DR? It's impossible to find DR B-Die kits for a normal price here in the Netherlands at the moment so I was looking at 4x8 SR kits.


whit new RTT setup i got 30/40 more fps in this game CROWZ on Steam who is very mem hungry

I buy 2 sets of patriot viper 4400mhz cl19 B-die, I would have liked to have Ballistix CL19 MAX 2x16GB 32GB Kit DDR4 4400Mhz RGB it is E-die. but when its price went up 4 times, that dream was extinguished, but grace to buy a set for my boy before the price went up up, test it briefly in my PC, they have a high bandwidth, even without setting subtiming on them


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> Is there a noticable performance difference between SR vs DR? It's impossible to find DR B-Die kits for a normal price here in the Netherlands at the moment so I was looking at 4x8 SR kits.


4x8 are difficult to clock. Try to get 2x16 dr: with same speed as SR you will get more performances.

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

nikolaus85 said:


> 4x8 are difficult to clock. Try to get 2x16 dr: with same speed as SR you will get more performances.
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


I know. But DR 4400's or 3600C14's or 3200C14's are impossible to get for a normal price. All well over €400. SR kits are pretty cheap still tho.


----------



## nikolaus85

Imprezzion said:


> I know. But DR 4400's or 3600C14's or 3200C14's are impossible to get for a normal price. All well over €400. SR kits are pretty cheap still tho.


on amazon.de or amazon.it ripjaws 4400 c17 2x16 often drop under € 300. No reason to consider anything else. So easy to tune and always stable. Just track them with keepa.

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## NorySS

11900K SP78
OC to 5.3Ghz Core / 4.5Ghz Ring
Maximus XIII Extreme
*4x16 Gskill 3200c14 sticks
MemOC to 3733c15*


----------



## Martin v r

NorySS said:


> 11900K SP78
> OC to 5.3Ghz Core / 4.5Ghz Ring
> Maximus XIII Extreme
> *4x16 Gskill 3200c14 sticks
> MemOC to 3733c15*
> View attachment 2574244


yes, I would like that cpu, it gives a bit more bandwidth than my 10600k,then my bandwidth would be a bit higher


----------



## Betroz

Is this result where it should be for this setup? (only 43X ring)


----------



## Delpize

Hey everyone, i need your opinion on one thing,

I have z599 apex 3733 13-14 ram 11900k and rtx 2080ti. But sadly i can not keep 240 fps all the time(even tho others can keep with 3080ti and 5950x someshit). And when i check the usages, my gpu at %90ish 95ish utilization and cpu is %30~40.
My budget is around 1500$. Which move is the wiser?
Replacing my mobo and cpu to z790 and 13900k or replacing gpu with 4090?

playing at 1080P apex legends


----------



## Agent-A01

Delpize said:


> Hey everyone, i need your opinion on one thing,
> 
> I have z599 apex 3733 13-14 ram 11900k and rtx 2080ti. But sadly i can not keep 240 fps all the time(even tho others can keep with 3080ti and 5950x someshit). And when i check the usages, my gpu at %90ish 95ish utilization and cpu is %30~40.
> My budget is around 1500$. Which move is the wiser?
> Replacing my mobo and cpu to z790 and 13900k or replacing gpu with 4090?
> 
> playing at 1080P apex legends


Overall, the smarter purchase is a 4090. Maybe faster memory(or more oc) would help you lock in 240 fps


----------



## Delpize

Agent-A01 said:


> Overall, the smarter purchase is a 4090. Maybe faster memory(or more oc) would help you lock in 240 fps


Thank you


----------



## Betroz

Anyone noticed that the Read and Copy resultes from AIDA64 is lower under 22H2 version of Windows 11? It is for me. Write and latency is normal.
Maybe it has something to do with this :




> Microsoft confirms performance degradation in Windows 11 22H2 when copying large files


----------



## Nono31

Betroz said:


> Anyone noticed that the Read and Copy resultes from AIDA64 is lower under 22H2 version of Windows 11? It is for me. Write and latency is normal.
> Maybe it has something to do with this :
> 
> Microsoft confirms performance degradation in Windows 11 22H2 when copying large files


Yes windows 11 for now it's not always the good version for some games.


----------



## Martin v r

msi z490 tomahawk (BIG erro whit RTL an 4 x MEM ) I have solved 
Hmm or a long battle with MSI support, so just wanted me to run xmp, which causes a big loss in bandwidth, because it has to fit as many mem as possible.
everything that works with 2xMEM stops working with 4slots, and MSI doesn't understand the problem

I just wanted them to understand that RTL and IO do not work with 4 slots, as it does with 2.


1 Big erro ? XMP = over voltage SA  big time , try it setup, doesn't match what you set mem to in the bios on many setups .

Well, my big problem was that RTL had to go into a sub-menu for subtiming and turn a lot off/on

fast boot Dis..
RTL set to Auto,nothing else works

an help here form this thread










Help with RTL and IOL on MSI


Hey guys, I’m new to both here and overclocking in general and would like some help please. I’m currently following this guide https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4%20OC%20Guide.md and feel I’m doing something wrong because of my latency. I’m stuck on tightening the RTL...




www.overclock.net






now I just have to polish it,now the number just needs to go down,never dreamed that 4 mem block could get me up into the red field


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Martin v r said:


> msi z490 tomahawk (BIG erro whit RTL an 4 x MEM ) I have solved
> Hmm or a long battle with MSI support, so just wanted me to run xmp, which causes a big loss in bandwidth, because it has to fit as many mem as possible.
> everything that works with 2xMEM stops working with 4slots, and MSI doesn't understand the problem
> 
> I just wanted them to understand that RTL and IO do not work with 4 slots, as it does with 2.
> 
> 
> 1 Big erro ? XMP = over voltage SA  big time , try it setup, doesn't match what you set mem to in the bios on many setups .
> 
> Well, my big problem was that RTL had to go into a sub-menu for subtiming and turn a lot off/on
> 
> fast boot Dis..
> RTL set to Auto,nothing else works
> 
> an help here form this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Help with RTL and IOL on MSI
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I’m new to both here and overclocking in general and would like some help please. I’m currently following this guide https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4%20OC%20Guide.md and feel I’m doing something wrong because of my latency. I’m stuck on tightening the RTL...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now I just have to polish it,now the number just needs to go down,never dreamed that 4 mem block could get me up into the red field
> View attachment 2575273


Thanks for the follow up. I’m impressed you could get all 4 slots to 63/63/63/63. I find even with two slots the board doesn’t train rtls well. I can only ever get 62/64 best and often 62/62/65/65. I’ve tried switching the sticks etc.


----------



## Martin v r

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Thanks for the follow up. I’m impressed you could get all 4 slots to 63/63/63/63. I find even with two slots the board doesn’t train rtls well. I can only ever get 62/64 best and often 62/62/65/65. I’ve tried switching the sticks etc.


now I only have gray hair left, I can see many MSI motherboards have had problems with 4 slots, so I have to recommend something, must it be 2x16 or 2x32, my big boy is traveling to Australia, to work as a carpenter, so I will borrow his 2x32GB, G.skill 4000MHZ to see what they can do, in a little md


----------



## Martin v r

gives up. some numbers are not found in RTL chanal 3
if i set it to 65 = 66
but i can run 63-63-63-63 or 59-59-66-66/62-62-64-64

don't want to fight with it anymore, just have to see that the motherboard is only for 2x?? it works


----------



## Anomander43

Hi everyone!

A total noob here with some questions and need for guidance.

First, is there a better/easier way to reset bios to default (without losing saved profiles) than to take out the battery, because it's under the GPU and that's annoying. I search for one, but couldn't find one. The PC didn't boot up when I tried tCL 13 (I know it's stupid, but had to try).

Any advice on changing the secondary timings? I haven't adjusted all tertiary yet:









What should be the value of the "Turn Around Timing Setting Mode"? I assume "Fixed Mode" is what I'd want for a custom values?


Spoiler















Do I have to disable "Memory Fast Boot"?


Spoiler















And lastly, any advice on the voltage would be greatly appreciated?


Spoiler


----------



## Martin v r

Anomander43 said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> A total noob here with some questions and need for guidance.
> 
> First, is there a better/easier way to reset bios to default (without losing saved profiles) than to take out the battery, because it's under the GPU and that's annoying. I search for one, but couldn't find one. The PC didn't boot up when I tried tCL 13 (I know it's stupid, but had to try).
> 
> Any advice on changing the secondary timings? I haven't adjusted all tertiary yet:
> View attachment 2575344
> 
> 
> What should be the value of the "Turn Around Timing Setting Mode"? I assume "Fixed Mode" is what I'd want for a custom values?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575345
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have to disable "Memory Fast Boot"?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575346
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And lastly, any advice on the voltage would be greatly appreciated?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575347


depends on the cpu, how good it is,
2 versus 4 mem requires more sa voltage att 4100MHZ I am on 1,38v x4 mem att 2 mem it is 1,28v but again how good is your cpu? lotto land
min viper 4400 cl 19 @ 4000 cl 14 1.5V









sa 1,42


----------



## Martin v r

others who have noticed that after 4000MHZ it is as if it is difficult with the performance on mem, in relation to MHZ/cl


----------



## Betroz

Martin v r said:


> others who have noticed that after 4000MHZ it is as if it is difficult with the performance on mem, in relation to MHZ/cl


Over that speed, the IMC in the CPU plays a bigger role.


----------



## Imprezzion

Would switching from a Z590 Maxi Hero to a Z590 Apex give me any tangible benefit for memory gear 1? Brand new Apex's are only like €250 here now so.. maybe?

Right now I am maxed out on 3733 14-15-15-33-252-2N with super tight subtimings @ 1.56v vDIMM in gear 1 using a mediocre 11900KF with a decent IMC but it will not POST anything above 3733 even with BCLK OC. SA 1.36 IO2 1.30. 12h stable in TM5 1usmus and anta absolut.


----------



## Nono31

Martin v r said:


> others who have noticed that after 4000MHZ it is as if it is difficult with the performance on mem, in relation to MHZ/cl
> 
> View attachment 2575561


Keep in mind it's good to increase frequency at the point you gain 300mhz for 1 cl lost.

So its better decreasing frequency of 200mhz and have cl-1.
To finish its often pair cl are better to manage good latency than impair to my experience


----------



## vishy92

anta777 said:


> My new config for tm5 - absolut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> absolutnew.cfg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bit.ly



Hey!
Im pretty new to memory overclocking. I failed test 3 one time on 3 cycles. Anyone knows what should I try to change? I think test 3 is a mirror move, but I'm not sure. Any help greatly appreciated.

its cl16 3200mhz hynix CJR @ 1.45v


----------



## bhav

Hi, long time no post.

I simply cant figure out if gear 2 high clocks is actually better than gear 1 low clocks.

I've run benchies at both and it looks pretty much the same in games and anything other than synthetic benchmarks, but then I'm running at 4k.

I've been running 4800CL17 gear 2 since getting my Asrock Z690, I'm getting a Z790 and 13700k soon for the fun of it, but it also does gear 1 3800CL13.

The only reviews I can find only stopped at 4400CL19 for testing gear1 vs gear2 vs ddr5, basically this one here:









DDR4 vs. DDR5 on Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Review


The Intel Alder Lake platform has support for both DDR5 and DDR4 memory. We ran 38 application benchmarks and 10 games at multiple DDR4 configurations to learn what performance to expect when using DDR4 vs. DDR5 on 12th Gen, and whether there's a point at which DDR4 performance can beat the much...




www.techpowerup.com





4400CL19 gear 2 was just 2% worse than 3600CL16 gear 1, and 3% worse than DDR5 6000CL36, and thats at 2560x1440.

I game at 4K so theres even less difference there.

I simply bought 4400 2x16 when it was discounted to £180 not even knowing anything about gear 1 / 2 because DDR5 was so much more expensive.

There isnt any point in spending money on DDR5 for 4K anyway, so I'm just getting a MSI MAG Tomahawk Z790 DDR4 and 13700k because I want a final setup for the current ram kit and this is the last gen that will support it.

The general consensus I read online is 'gear 2 is much worse than gear 1', any review I find shows 2% difference at most at slower speeds.

Are there actually any up to date reviews including the newer 2x16 4800CL18 and 2x8 5333 DDR4 kits comparing these kits to gear 1 and DDR5? I've made the decision already to keep the DDR4 and get a 13700k for it anyway, just that my Asrock Z690 itx has a 150w CPU power limit so I also needed a new board, and case since I have to ditch itx.

I'll try to remember to post the new build here, but nowadays I don't really remember to use any forums other than reddit.


----------



## Imprezzion

Wait for Oktober 20th. It's like 4 days from now and reviews for 13th gen should be out. Let's hope they test DDR4 vs 5 as well. I kinda want a 13900K but kinda don't wanna spend the cash for DDR5 either so.. I'm curious as well..


----------



## bhav

Imprezzion said:


> Wait for Oktober 20th. It's like 4 days from now and reviews for 13th gen should be out. Let's hope they test DDR4 vs 5 as well. I kinda want a 13900K but kinda don't wanna spend the cash for DDR5 either so.. I'm curious as well..



Problem is even if they include DDR4 testing, it will be like 'Heres some 3+ year old 3600CL16 vs the latest and greatest DDR5 6600.

Bog standard ddr4 and premium ddr5 always, never any 2022 standard ddr4 kits included.

I've already preordered the case and motherboard because I can put my 12600k on it for now and test out if the ram OCs any better than on the low end Asrock, as for the 13700k, I'm going to wait until software bundles drop with them anyway.

Can't do much more with the 12600k though as I only have a 140mm aio on it, which is just enough for 5.1 Ghz. Arctic 420mms are mostly out of stock everywhere and the only cooler I want next.

I'd really like to see what would happen to a 13900K & 3080 Ti in a mini case and a 120-140mm aio, computer go boom?


----------



## Imprezzion

bhav said:


> Problem is even if they include DDR4 testing, it will be like 'Heres some 3+ year old 3600CL16 vs the latest and greatest DDR5 6600.
> 
> Bog standard ddr4 and premium ddr5 always, never any 2022 standard ddr4 kits included.
> 
> I've already preordered the case and motherboard because I can put my 12600k on it for now and test out if the ram OCs any better than on the low end Asrock, as for the 13700k, I'm going to wait until software bundles drop with them anyway.
> 
> Can't do much more with the 12600k though as I only have a 140mm aio on it, which is just enough for 5.1 Ghz. Arctic 420mms are mostly out of stock everywhere and the only cooler I want next.
> 
> I'd really like to see what would happen to a 13900K & 3080 Ti in a mini case and a 120-140mm aio, computer go boom?


That is true yeah, they never test proper modern high frequency DDR4. I mean, my kit is 3600C16 but I usually run it on 3733C14 gear 1 or 4400C17 gear 2. It isn't the best B-Die bin ever but holds up fine. 

I already ordered and received my EK Velocity S1700 bracket kit they gave out for €0.01and my 420 + 240 Nemesis GTX's should be able to handle it just fine although I will probably delid it and direct die it if it's as bad as 12th gen. 

Same goes for Z690 vs Z790. Especially the DDR4 boards.. I don't see the big advantage for Z790 here honestly. A Z690 MSI Edge D4 or Asus Strix-A D4 might do just fine and be much cheaper so..


----------



## bhav

Imprezzion said:


> Same goes for Z690 vs Z790. Especially the DDR4 boards.. I don't see the big advantage for Z790 here honestly. A Z690 MSI Edge D4 or Asus Strix-A D4 might do just fine and be much cheaper so..


It might not but it also might. I gained an extra 200mhz ddr4 between Z390 and Z490. MSI Z790s have hugely over the top upgraded VRMs which might make a difference, and I wanted the one with an external clear cmos button. Z690s were already most sold out and had already been discounted for the last couple of weeks.

I always overspend on PSU and otherboard, and its only when I don't and buy as cheap one like my current one so I could keep ddr4 on itx I run into pmroblems.

Even if theres no improvements, theres also resale value on the boards, a Z790 will resale for higher than a Z690 because bigger number. I'm just done with itx for good, been using it since coffee lake, and now nothing fits and the cooling is crap.


----------



## Arni90

bhav said:


> Hi, long time no post.
> 
> I simply cant figure out if gear 2 high clocks is actually better than gear 1 low clocks.
> 
> I've run benchies at both and it looks pretty much the same in games and anything other than synthetic benchmarks, but then I'm running at 4k.


I did some tests with RKL: Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion

Gear 1 was better for those games with Rocket Lake, and since Alder Lake does higher gear 1 frequency with gear 2 mostly the same or lower...

If you want to run benchmarks, make sure they're CPU-limited.


----------



## bhav

Arni90 said:


> I did some tests with RKL: Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion
> 
> Gear 1 was better for those games with Rocket Lake, and since Alder Lake does higher gear 1 frequency with gear 2 mostly the same or lower...
> 
> If you want to run benchmarks, make sure they're CPU-limited.


Thanks, the whole gear thing really screwed up DDR4 overclocking, I was looking through my past aida results and found that on 10900K I had 41.9ns latency with the ballistix max at 4500CL15, and then it went up to 4600Cl15 with risky voltage.

12th and 13th gen is obviously much better CPU gains, but they weren't made for DDR4.

My aida trial expired currently and its not something I want to pay for right now.

The difference in civ 6 loading times though, its less than 1 second. I can run 3800CL13 gear 1 or 4800CL17 gear 2, I'll wait for the new motherboard first before testing again as it might do better.

The games I am most interested in are CPU limited - Civ 6, Anno 1800, Humankind etc. I'm going to be trying to find 13700k vs 13900k results for those games specifically before choosing which one to buy.


----------



## Betroz

Anyone else getting this weirdness with AIDA64 Read and Copy numbers running under Win11 22H2?


----------



## bhav

DDR5 prices are just crap. Everyone says 'If you're spending that much on CPU and Mobo, why not just just get DDR5?'. Because it doesn't do anything worth its price, price to performance and all that.

£180 for 4800CL38 32gb. My micron B die kit was the same price and the most I've spent on ram and does 3800Cl13 / 4800Cl17.

I sent an email to techpowerup asking if they could at least add 4800CL18 gear 2 and 4000CL15 gear 1 kits to their reviews so people could get information on when DDR5 is better / worth it, they said unlikely because DDR4 is end of life and for now they will only be doing DDR5 in their reviews.

The general consensus now is 'If you spend £1000 on a GPU, you can spend £500 on ram'. Lol dream on.


----------



## Martin v r

I have to ask, do people have HT on or off, as I use HT on all my tests


----------



## GeneO

Martin v r said:


> I have to ask, do people have HT on or off, as I use HT on all my tests


I, and I think most others, have it on. 

There are some stress tests, like Prime95, that are so efficient they will run hotter and stress the CPU more with HT disabled.


----------



## Nono31

I have better performance on 10900k with ht on for better fps and better lattency. Significant for me.


----------



## bhav

GeneO said:


> I, and I think most others, have it on.
> 
> There are some stress tests, like Prime95, that are so efficient they will run hotter and stress the CPU more with HT disabled.


This is also happening in a few games that can actually utilize e cores. With e cores on, CPU temps are lower as the P cores aren't being stressed as much. If you look up on youtube for e cores on / off comparisons with the games running side by side, you can find a few cases that favour e cores, both a few extra FPS and few degrees less temps.

In any situation where extra threads and e cores can be utilized, temperatures can drop due to less stress on the P cores, but its probably less than 1% of games that can actually utilize e cores right now. If threads and e cores aren't being used, then turning them off increases performance and drops temps.

Its a case by case variable, not one setting fits all.


----------



## Rbk_3

Excited to see what my 4000 16 kit will do on the 13900k. It topped out at 4133 CL16 on 12900k and 4400 CL16 on my 10900k


----------



## bhav

Rbk_3 said:


> Excited to see what my 4000 16 kit will do on the 13900k. It topped out at 4133 CL16 on 12900k and 4400 CL16 on my 10900k


But did you try going up to 1.8v on the 10900k? The gains that I got when I dared to do that, I did it because the ram I had was cheap and easy to replace, and it scaled up to 1.72v, but I think I was blocked by maxing out the IMC, not the ram, as it clocks higher on gear 2 now.

Don't think I'll push it any higher than 1.6v on the 13900k as it has to last now, and the prices have gone back to £350 on my kit, but I'm hoping for 4200CL14 G1. I currently only tested G1 to 3800CL13 which it does effortlessly.

And yea, don't try that if you can't risk the ram dying.


----------



## Rbk_3

bhav said:


> But did you try going up to 1.8v on the 10900k? The gains that I got when I dared to do that, I did it because the ram I had was cheap and easy to replace, and it scaled up to 1.72v, but I think I was blocked by maxing out the IMC, not the ram, as it clocks higher on gear 2 now.
> 
> Don't think I'll push it any higher than 1.6v on the 13900k as it has to last now, and the prices have gone back to £350 on my kit, but I'm hoping for 4200CL14 G1. I currently only tested G1 to 3800CL13 which it does effortlessly.
> 
> And yea, don't try that if you can't risk the ram dying.


I never went above 1.60 with a fan.


----------



## Martin v r

bhav said:


> But did you try going up to 1.8v on the 10900k? The gains that I got when I dared to do that, I did it because the ram I had was cheap and easy to replace, and it scaled up to 1.72v, but I think I was blocked by maxing out the IMC, not the ram, as it clocks higher on gear 2 now.
> 
> Don't think I'll push it any higher than 1.6v on the 13900k as it has to last now, and the prices have gone back to £350 on my kit, but I'm hoping for 4200CL14 G1. I currently only tested G1 to 3800CL13 which it does effortlessly.
> 
> And yea, don't try that if you can't risk the ram dying.


woow 1.8v ?? on mem ??


----------



## bhav

Martin v r said:


> woow 1.8v ?? on mem ??


Yea, but dont do it 24/7, use it to check for scaling.

I am using 1.7v now, and was already using 1.72v 24/7 for about 8 months on Z490 though.

Asrock only sent me up to 1.75v custom bios, still wont allow 5000CL19 even at 1.4V SA on this board.

Thats how I got my 4600CL15 on 10900k and current 4800CL16 on Micron B die. Samsung B die kits can manage 4800CL8 1.55-1.6v as you can buy them from g skill currently, but lol £400 lol.

I don't even know if its safe long term to sit on 1.7v, but as a general rule imo if 1.6v is safe, 1.7v is safe, just like when 1.35v was safe, 1.45v was safe.

When I pushed my e die to 1.55v 3 years ago, everyone was telling me it wouldn't even last a year. Still works. no degradation, but scaling stopped at about 1.52v.

You already get DDR4 kits with stock voltage of 1.6v, but they aren't worth buying over DDR5 as they won't ever get better than that, this is just for people who already own such ram.


----------



## Arni90

bhav said:


> Yea, but dont do it 24/7.
> 
> I am using 1.7v now, and was already using 1.72v 24/7 for about 8 months on Z490 though.
> 
> Thats how I got my 4600CL15 on 10900k and current 4800CL16.
> 
> I don't even know if its safe long term to sit on 1.7v, but as a general rule imo if 1.6v is save, 1.7v is safe, just like when 1.35v was safe, 1.45v was safe.
> 
> You already get DDR4 kits with stock voltage of 1.6v, but they aren't worth buying over DDR5 as they won't ever get better than that, this is just for people who already own such ram.


In my experience, even booting dual rank Samsung B-die at 1.65V is basically impossible on Alder Lake. Single rank B-die would boot up to 1.80V or so. Increasing DRAM voltage in OS to 1.85V was possible however, so 4266 14-14-13-14 would run some benhmarks:









Arni90`s Geekbench5 - Single Core score: 2218 points with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5203.8MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Geekbench5 - Single Core benchmark. Arni90ranks #null worldwide and #35 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org












Arni90`s 3DMark Vantage - Performance (CPU) score: 111255 marks with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5202.6MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the 3DMark Vantage - Performance (CPU) benchmark. Arni90ranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org





The exact same memory kit also did this: Arni90`s SuperPi - 32M score: 4min 40sec 148ms with a Core i9 11900K

Rocket Lake will happily boot 2.10V DRAM voltage without issue, so there's definitely a difference with Alder Lake. I suspect anything more than 1.55V DRAM voltage on Alder Lake is kind of bad long-term.


----------



## bhav

Well I'm happy to be the guinea pig for 1.7v on Alderlake / Raptorlake soon, but still no idea if MSI bioses go above 1.6v.


----------



## Ichirou

On my MSI Edge, the BIOS had difficulty training above 1.64V VDIMM for Samsung B-die DR and above 1.67V or so for Micron B-die. I could only circumvent that with manual VTT voltage setting. Takes a lot of trial and error, but it’s doable. 

Samsung B-die SR was surprisingly easy though. Could boot past 1.80V with ease. 

Unfortunately, my IMC capped off long before any further boosts in frequency or tCL could be fully capitalized on.

@Arni90 @bhav


----------



## bhav

Ichirou said:


> On my MSI Edge, the BIOS had difficulty training above 1.64V VDIMM for Samsung B-die DR and above 1.67V or so for Micron B-die. I could only circumvent that with manual VTT voltage setting. Takes a lot of trial and error, but it’s doable.
> 
> Samsung B-die SR was surprisingly easy though. Could boot past 1.80V with ease.
> 
> Unfortunately, my IMC capped off long before any further boosts in frequency or tCL could be fully capitalized on.
> 
> @Arni90 @bhav


Thats great, I meant at least if they have the option and don't cap the setting to 1.6v.


----------



## Ichirou

bhav said:


> Thats great, I meant at least if they have the option and don't cap the setting to 1.6v.





bhav said:


> Thats great, I meant at least if they have the option and don't cap the setting to 1.6v.


It isn't capped* per se, but the issue is that they haven't worked on their BIOSes thoroughly enough to train various dies beyond 1.60V VDIMM.
You have to manually plug in a working VTT voltage yourself to get it to properly boot.


----------



## bhav

Ichirou said:


> It isn't capped* per se, but the issue is that they haven't worked on their BIOSes thoroughly enough to train various dies beyond 1.60V VDIMM.
> You have to manually plug in a working VTT voltage yourself to get it to properly boot.


Well I don't think the Bios or VRM on my Asrock Z690 is in any better than MSI, they just sent me a bios with the limit raised to 1.75v.

And actually 4800CL16 boots at 1.6v, then I increase the voltage after, something I also need to do on the current board as setting the SA and Dram both too high prevents boot.


----------



## Betroz

Have any of you seen a degradation in the IMC due to high IO and SA voltages?

With my 10900KF and above 4133 mem speed, the increase in those voltages are quite high. I run 1.25v IO and 1.30v SA (BIOS set that is) for 4133C16 fully tweaked, and going to just 4266 means 1.35v IO and 1.45v SA... With RTL and IOL at auto I can reduse the voltages of course, but then I loose latency as you know. So not a good IMC.


----------



## bhav

Betroz said:


> Have any of you seen a degradation in the IMC due to high IO and SA voltages?
> 
> With my 10900KF and above 4133 mem speed, the increase in those voltages are quite high. I run 1.25v IO and 1.30v SA (BIOS set that is) for 4133C16 fully tweaked, and going to just 4266 means 1.35v IO and 1.45v SA... With RTL and IOL at auto I can reduse the voltages of course, but then I loose latency as you know. So not a good IMC.


Personally never, my 10900k was running 4200CL16 DR 1.52v, then 4600CL15 SR 1.72v since I got it when it launched. It didn't need high SA voltage though, it did the first at 1.215, the second at 1.28.

But that was at most 2 years, currently its all reset to stock as I don't use it anymore. my I7 980 was running 1.65v 1866CL7 daily all the way up to 5820k.

4.4 Ghz on the 980, 5.3 capable, 5.2 daily on the 10900k (I thought I had been running it at 5.1, turns out it was 5.2 daily).


----------



## Martin v r

hmm 
then I have gradually started to give more volts to my 4 viper, then I will have to see how it goes  1.56v


----------



## bhav

So my latency just dropped from the previous 61ns to 54ns at the current G2 settings after I closed all the apps that were running and the browser (razer wireless, nzxt aio, steam, msi afterburner, asrock lan utility).

So it was having those things open that was inflating the latency.


----------



## Betroz

bhav said:


> So my latency just dropped from the previous 61ns to 54ns at the current G2 settings after I closed all the apps that were running and the browser (razer wireless, nzxt aio, steam, msi afterburner, asrock lan utility).
> 
> So it was having those things open that was inflating the latency.


......and having many background apps running will hurt the minimum fps in games.


----------



## bhav

Betroz said:


> ......and having many background apps running will hurt the minimum fps in games.


I thought thats what the e cores were for!


----------



## Betroz

bhav said:


> I thought thats what the e cores were for!


Yes, but it will hurt performance still. How much depends.


----------



## Mikel_Ertz

Can someone help me?

I got this settings stable in anta777 absolute, but I am getting errors in 1usmus3. How can i fix the errors?


----------



## CptSpig

Mikel_Ertz said:


> Can someone help me?
> 
> I got this settings stable in anta777 absolute, but I am getting errors in 1usmus3. How can i fix the errors?


You are running anta777 in compatibility mode. You need to run as administrator.


----------



## Mikel_Ertz

CptSpig said:


> You are running anta777 in compatibility mode. You need to run as administrator.


Ok, i Will do that. But i need to fix the errors in 1usmusv3 in tm5. But idk what do i need to change to get it fixed


----------



## Mikel_Ertz

Could you tell me some values to try plz.


----------



## CptSpig

Mikel_Ertz said:


> Ok, i Will do that. But i need to fix the errors in 1usmusv3 in tm5. But idk what do i need to change to get it fixed


TM5 testing errors


----------



## Mikel_Ertz

CptSpig said:


> TM5 testing errors


Error 3 & 4 by checking the MT.cfg - are MirrorMove errors
That set shows tRFC 2 issues and this tRFC "auto predicted" ? is wrong.
tRFC is so far always even
as tRFC stepping are 32,16,8,4,2


The problem is that idk what is this, i don't understant


----------



## CptSpig

Mikel_Ertz said:


> Error 3 & 4 by checking the MT.cfg - are MirrorMove errors
> That set shows tRFC 2 issues and this tRFC "auto predicted" ? is wrong.
> tRFC is so far always even
> as tRFC stepping are 32,16,8,4,2
> 
> 
> The problem is that idk what is this, i don't understant


Picture shows tRFC2


----------



## Mikel_Ertz

CptSpig said:


> Picture shows tRFC2
> View attachment 2577221
> 
> View attachment 2577217


Okay, and what values should i try there?


----------



## CptSpig

Mikel_Ertz said:


> Okay, and what values should i try there?


You need to run TM5 for 1 full cycle and see if there are other errors.


----------



## Martin v r

dram:fsb ratio table ? 
100/133 x MHZ x 1T/2T/3T 

does it exist, because there's enough goat in my bios, I'm getting so mad, it's so full of errors


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Any results for ddr4 and z790 that anyone has to share?


----------



## ViTosS

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Any results for ddr4 and z790 that anyone has to share?


I would like to see too, I'm waiting for 13900k to come stock here in Brazil to grab one, mobo I will be using either MSI Edge or Asus Strix-A, mobo is already in stock btw. Gonna use my current B-Dies for DDR4 OC when I have everything.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

ViTosS said:


> I would like to see too, I'm waiting for 13900k to come stock here in Brazil to grab one, mobo I will be using either MSI Edge or Asus Strix-A, mobo is already in stock btw. Gonna use my current B-Dies for DDR4 OC when I have everything.


That was my plan, got an order in today for a 13900k and the z790 edge but it’s all adding up too much and the chip is now 3-4 weeks out for a 4-6 hour drive. It Just turned into, well, I should get an aio, to, oh crap that won’t fit in my case, oh and I need a thermal bracket. Meh it’s too much.


----------



## KedarWolf

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/memtest86-plus-is-back-after-9-years


----------



## bhav

Uncle Dubbs said:


> Any results for ddr4 and z790 that anyone has to share?


I would have had if my new case wasnt going to take another month.

I think I am going to snap and lug the lian li down the stairs in the next few days or by tonight .... :x

I had a check, it would be too heavy without a full disassembly and reassembly, I'm def not doing that. ... I can wait .... a month? Yes!


----------



## Martin v r

some good suggestions, since I run 4300MHZ fine with doing subtiming as shown in this photo, with only 2x8GB so now I would like it to work with 4x8GB, forget about RTL since they run auto, only really works with 2x8GB


----------



## bhav

Posted the screenies in the other thread, but 4900 17-22-22-48-1T-700 is stable at 1.6v vdimm, 1.4v vddq and SA.

I was trying at 680 trfc which works at 4800 but it wont manage. The rest of the timings are the same as 4800, just needed some more SA, and I'm not sure the VDDQ is doing anything really.

Ok so vddq 1.2v errors, 1.3v no errors. So it does something but not an awful lot.

It might be why I couldn't get 4000G1 stable!


----------



## storm-chaser

Martin v r said:


> not because I want to go for sa 1.45v, but it didn't help anything with my G.skill , but now these Vipers run 17-17-17 att 1.5v and sa at 1.45v


I have very similar memory in my 9600KF rig. ITs obviously B die and overclocks quite well, plus the Patriot Viper Steel is relatively inexpensive. I have pushed over 2.0v through this memory without any detriment but cooling becomes a major factor above that. I ran at 1.58v @ 4400 C16 on the daily iirc, so this profile was just for benching.

This was my best effort at CL15


----------



## Mused

Hello. Im having a weird problem. I have 4x8 patriot viper 4 blackout at 4400mhz(i know 4x isnt ideal. i made purchase after old ram didnt was crashing with new cpu and before i fell into this rabbit hole). I was able to pass 2hr/2clycles of tm5 absolut, while running it at 1.5v vdimm, 4000mhz(14-16-16-350-cr1) gear 1, 80-48-48rtt, 1.35v sa, 1.4v vddq, and auto everything else. But it immediately spit out constant errors in gsat. Increasing vdimm up to 1.53 positively decreased errors, but 1.54 seem to be inconsistent where it was bit more stable or spit out constant errors. Upping vddq up to 1.44 helped positively, but 1.45 spit out constant errors. Upping sa had no effect, and lowing caused errors it seems. Cr 1 or 2 seems to have 0 effect for stability. My odt, i think it’s called?(can’t remember off top of my head) is auto’d and constantly goes to 71/77, even at 3800mhz. Also, i get pass with 3900 on both test at 1.49/1.5 vdimm. I feel so close to 4000mhz but im so confused on what’s happening now. Sry for organization, as im on mobile and pc is stress testing.


----------



## Mused

I suppose i can try fiddling with whatever this is. Which i dont even know where these settings are or what they do. The Importance of Setting Slopes for Memory Overclocking


----------



## Mused

So 4000, turns out to be as stable on 1.5vdimm 1.4sa, as 1.53vdim 1.43sa l. I really hope this random training(is what i assume at this point) is fixed by my slopes. Also, my odt has a slope?_sigh_. Too bad msi doesnt tell me what the auto values are so i can have a better reference starting point.


----------



## Mused

Finished my odt’s… Google Sheets: Sign-in


----------



## MrFox

Mused said:


> Finished my odt’s… Google Sheets: Sign-in


Thanks for sharing the info.


----------



## Mused

Quick question, would oc’ing cpu increase mhz and/or cl capacities in any way?


----------



## GeneO

Mused said:


> Quick question, would oc’ing cpu increase mhz and/or cl capacities in any way?


No.


----------



## storm-chaser

Mused said:


> Quick question, would oc’ing cpu increase mhz and/or cl capacities in any way?


As already stated, no. However, if you overclock the north bridge, you will definitely see IPC/performance improvements in the RAM subsystem.


----------



## Martin v r

Mused said:


> Hello. Im having a weird problem. I have 4x8 patriot viper 4 blackout at 4400mhz(i know 4x isnt ideal. i made purchase after old ram didnt was crashing with new cpu and before i fell into this rabbit hole). I was able to pass 2hr/2clycles of tm5 absolut, while running it at 1.5v vdimm, 4000mhz(14-16-16-350-cr1) gear 1, 80-48-48rtt, 1.35v sa, 1.4v vddq, and auto everything else. But it immediately spit out constant errors in gsat. Increasing vdimm up to 1.53 positively decreased errors, but 1.54 seem to be inconsistent where it was bit more stable or spit out constant errors. Upping vddq up to 1.44 helped positively, but 1.45 spit out constant errors. Upping sa had no effect, and lowing caused errors it seems. Cr 1 or 2 seems to have 0 effect for stability. My odt, i think it’s called?(can’t remember off top of my head) is auto’d and constantly goes to 71/77, even at 3800mhz. Also, i get pass with 3900 on both test at 1.49/1.5 vdimm. I feel so close to 4000mhz but im so confused on what’s happening now. Sry for organization, as im on mobile and pc is stress testing.


80-48-48

I use 80-48-60 ore 80-60-60
but here 4x8GB viper att 80-48-60 1.56v ned more voltage at 4x vs 2x

an sa voltage is fu.. on mine cpu an high to whit 4x vs 2x mem 😢 4000MHZ it is 1.35v 2x an 4x it is 1.38v whit 4200MHZ 4x 

voltage on mem is 1.56v cl 14-14-14-35 4000mhz, same at 4200 cl 15-15-15


----------



## Martin v r

but there are so many other voltage setups that can help your mem, which also plays into the bios, don't know which motherboard you have


----------



## Mused

@Martin v r thx for responding
ive tested(tm5 absolut and gsat) 80-48-60 and 80-60-60 as well. 80-48-48 gave me best results for stability by a good margin. I think 80-48-40 was 2nd best where it errored at 35-36mins twice, where 80-48-48 passed 3hr. I have a msi z690 edge.

At this point, apparently changing 3900(14-15-15-30) to (13-14-14-30) is at least 2x easier than going to 4000mhz at 1.55vdimm. Havent tested lower voltages yet. Trying to test lowering other primaries, tras, then trefi. Hmm i forgot to try to lower rtl’s but it’s working out fine so far, i dont need extra stability atm.









MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com




Also, in this guide, i states that tras minimum is trcd + trp. But i’ve seen other good oc’er use lower then minimum. Ive also experimented a bit and was able to use lower than trcd + trp and have better performance.


----------



## Mused

Yea, for me as well, sa voltage is quite important when dealing with higher mhz. But i cant just through voltage at my setup for mhz bc there is something else causing instability. Probably the rest of my slopes, but i had a lot of trouble find manual settings that even boot. Besides my DQ up/dn.


----------



## Martin v r

Mused said:


> Yea, for me as well, sa voltage is quite important when dealing with higher mhz. But i cant just through voltage at my setup for mhz bc there is something else causing instability. Probably the rest of my slopes, but i had a lot of trouble find manual settings that even boot. Besides my DQ up/dn.


yes, it's something new than mine
10600k and a msi z490 tomahawk

voltage that has a lot to say on my sys with overclock of mem

cpu PLL = low vcore/slightly more bandwidth for mem
BLCK voltage nv 2.5 I think it's called
SA/IO voltage
and finally mem

It's just so difficult, since no 2 identical systems overclock the same
some CPUs have a better memory controller for DDR4 or DDR5, or bad ones
pure lotto country

have read that guide many times, but not everything is in it


----------



## Martin v r

Mused said:


> Yea, for me as well, sa voltage is quite important when dealing with higher mhz. But i cant just through voltage at my setup for mhz bc there is something else causing instability. Probably the rest of my slopes, but i had a lot of trouble find manual settings that even boot. Besides my DQ up/dn.


first time i can load with 4300MHZ change these bios set yesterday whit 4x8GB ,hasn't been a problem with 2x8GB, but 4x8GB has caused big problems just at 4200MHZ, I got a handle on that a few days ago
att cl 16-16-16 ,can not whit 17-17-17 ???


----------



## Mused

Idk what blck slew rate is


----------



## benjicod

Hi I have Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) (XMP 3600 CL14-16-16-36) Samsung B-Die, ASUS Prime Z370-A, [email protected] I'm running 3800 CL14-14-14-32 DRAM 1.5180, IO 1.15, SA 1.20, CR2. It pass [email protected], [email protected], KARHU. But when i want to go higher like 3900 or 4000 i boot to Windows around DRAM 1.55 but after like 2mins. in [email protected] always get error. I try different IO, SA but didn't help. Also try higher timings 14-16-16-36 still didn't work. Anyone give some tips what to improve or just stay at 3800 CL14-14-14-32 and tune subtimings? Thank you.


----------



## Martin v r

benjicod said:


> Hi I have Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) (XMP 3600 CL14-16-16-36) Samsung B-Die, ASUS Prime Z370-A, [email protected] I'm running 3800 CL14-14-14-32 DRAM 1.5180, IO 1.15, SA 1.20, CR2. It pass [email protected], [email protected], KARHU. But when i want to go higher like 3900 or 4000 i boot to Windows around DRAM 1.55 but after like 2mins. in [email protected] always get error. I try different IO, SA but didn't help. Also try higher timings 14-16-16-36 still didn't work. Anyone give some tips what to improve or just stay at 3800 CL14-14-14-32 and tune subtimings? Thank you.
> View attachment 2581216


rtl setup ? How do you know they are B-die?


----------



## Mused

@benjicod go 3900 or 4000mhz, which ever gives reasonable time to test(short enough to save time and long enough to tell difference). And test in anta777 absolut maybe. Try different rtts, then move on to odts. For my rtt’s the error times ranged from instant- 36mins, then one passed. Then move on to odt’s if you want. Slopes, ur data rising, up, vref , or DQ whatever they are called would be next. They take most time by far. I tested those in gsat as it was most sensitive and you can test # of errors. More time for each gives “error curve” time to stabilize. You can destabilize in increments by decreasing vdimm or sa, so you can hopefully get use shorter test. I recommend 3mins as min.


----------



## benjicod

Martin v r said:


> rtl setup ? How do you know they are B-die?


RTL are on AUTO.


----------



## Mused

this was mostly my format/results for odt and 1 slope. 4000mhz(14-15-15-30) (there are 2 sheets)

then you can work on rtl’s i think, as those are affected by 3 previous settings. You can skip steps to save time, but i still recommend skipping i that order.

i had same problem where 3866(if it was even stable, as i just used 20min aida test at the time) was barely stable on 4x8


----------



## Mused

Well i finished with 3900(13-15-12-22) at 1.55vdimm, 1.35sa, 1.38vddq(havent tested lower voltages yet). But i wonder if i can get 4100 or higher stable at (14-16-(13-14) -?) assuming my trcd is just not efficient…. Do i go back in the rabbit hole?


----------



## Martin v r

try this


----------



## Mused

Tried a couple combos at higher mhz, no luck. Sry, dont wna go through odts again


----------



## Martin v r

Mused said:


> Tried a couple combos at higher mhz, no luck. Sry, dont wna go through odts again


an rtt ?


----------



## BoredErica

Anyone know where vdd2 voltage is for z690-a DDR4 from MSI? Seems to be missing... (in bios I mean). Is it a ddr5 only voltage and that's why?


----------



## Martin v r

BoredErica said:


> Anyone know where vdd2 voltage is for z690-a DDR4 from MSI? Seems to be missing... (in bios I mean). Is it a ddr5 only voltage and that's why?


opdat bios ?









MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4/WIFI Owners Thread


I suggest stop buying into the Ram hype thing.Cheap Ram can be fine 100% and no difference in PC Gaming. Truth is 3000Mhz Ram can be just as Fast in PC Gaming as 4000Mhz with tuned memory and not even extreme tuned memory. I personally run CL17 Gear 2 4000Mhz Ram on RTX 3080,12900K 5400Mhz at...




www.overclock.net


----------



## GeneO

Finally got this g.skill 3200/CL14 b-die stable at 4200 16-16-34 with tight timings. Trick for me was upping the uncore from 47 to 49, go figure. CPU runs a bit hotter though.
BIOS voltage settings were VCCIO = 1.18v, VCCSA = 1.23v, Vdimm = 1.52v. All core 5.2 GHz with uncore 4.9 GHz max, adaptive voltage.

Stable 6 cycles of TM5 Extreme

Just ordered some g.skill 32GBx2 4266 19-26-46 to see what I can do with those 2 sticks, as I would really like 64GB of memory with some decent performance.


----------



## Taraquin

Impressed with the latest Asus bios 2014. My 12400F+Prime B660m K runs 3700 gear 1 stable at the locked 0.95v SA with tight timings on rev E. 

On the first bios even 3500 G1 was unstable. After 3 bioses 3600 G1 got stable and now 3700, maybe 3800-3900 by end of next year?😅

Undervolting is unfortunately no-go, no offset below -15mv works without tanking performance. Wish there was a way for throttlestop to work. With even lower temps I may be able to run 3800 G1 as it is very temp-sensitive.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> Impressed with the latest Asus bios 2014. My 12400F+Prime B660m K runs 3700 gear 1 stable at the locked 0.95v SA with tight timings on rev E.
> 
> On the first bios even 3500 G1 was unstable. After 3 bioses 3600 G1 got stable and now 3700, maybe 3800-3900 by end of next year?😅
> 
> Undervolting is unfortunately no-go, no offset below -15mv works without tanking performance. Wish there was a way for throttlestop to work. With even lower temps I may be able to run 3800 G1 as it is very temp-sensitive.


That's actually impressive for 0.95v SA, what CL do they need though?

So many people can't even get 3600CL16 to work on these non Ks.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> That's actually impressive for 0.95v SA, what CL do they need though?
> 
> So many people can't even get 3600CL16 to work on these non Ks.


Currently running 1.44v 15-19-19-34 RRD/FAW 4/4/16 RFC 544 1t.

Seems Asus managed to stabiluze something in this bios that the previous one couldn't. Temps are keep at 30-35C idle, 45-50C gaming and 60C during stresstesting. Temp will affect SA volyage stability, the stock cooler cpuld not pull this off.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> Currently running 1.44v 15-19-19-34 RRD/FAW 4/4/16 RFC 544 1t.
> 
> Seems Asus managed to stabiluze something in this bios that the previous one couldn't. Temps are keep at 30-35C idle, 45-50C gaming and 60C during stresstesting. Temp will affect SA volyage stability, the stock cooler cpuld not pull this off.


And thats on a prime board too, I so thoroughly despise my Asrock boards now which I only bought as they were the only options for DDR4 ITX.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> And thats on a prime board too, I so thoroughly despise my Asrock boards now which I only bought as they were the only options for DDR4 ITX.


I also has to do with IMC on CPU. Mine seems to require very low SA-voltage, while some I talked to could not get 3000xmp G1 running at their stock 0.89v SA voltage, but a new CPU fixed it. How far can you go in G1?


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> I also has to do with IMC on CPU. Mine seems to require very low SA-voltage, while some I talked to could not get 3000xmp G1 running at their stock 0.89v SA voltage, but a new CPU fixed it. How far can you go in G1?


When I had a 12600 non K I couldn't boot into windows without bsod on both my two kits at 3600CL16 (The ones I talk about all the time that do 4200CL16 and 4900+CL17). Sold it, got 12600K and Z board, currently stuck at 3800CL13 G1 on that.

So pretty much a double lottery fail in a row on the IMCs come to think of it and why I'm overspending on a 13900KS next to try guarantee a good bin.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> When I had a 12600 non K I couldn't boot into windows without bsod on both my two kits at 3600CL16 (The ones I talk about all the time that do 4200CL16 and 4900+CL17). Sold it, got 12600K and Z board, currently stuck at 3800CL13 G1 on that.
> 
> So pretty much a double lottery fail in a row on the IMCs come to think of it and why I'm overspending on a 13900KS next to try guarantee a good bin.


just an FYI that you don't always get a better IMC with more expensive CPU's. I've seen 12900K's that won't even do 4000G1 stable.


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> just an FYI that you don't always get a better IMC with more expensive CPU's. I've seen 12900K's that won't even do 4000G1 stable.


12th gen isn't 13th gen, I've ben watching the 13th gen thread for weeks, no one at all yet that cant get 4000G1.

Also the IMC quality is tied to the bin, higher the bin / SP, better the IMC in most cases.

Easily enough if I get a 13900KS and somehow it doesn't do 4000G1, UK trade law allows me to send it back for a refund.


----------



## ju-rek

bhav said:


> I've ben watching the 13th gen thread for weeks, no one at all yet that cant get 4000G1.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> 12th gen isn't 13th gen, I've ben watching the 13th gen thread for weeks, no one at all yet that cant get 4000G1.
> 
> Also the IMC quality is tied to the bin, higher the bin / SP, better the IMC in most cases.
> 
> Easily enough if I get a 13900KS and somehow it doesn't do 4000G1, UK trade law allows me to send it back for a refund.


I didn't say that you won't, I just said that better CPU doesn't necessarily mean better IMC


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> I didn't say that you won't, I just said that better CPU doesn't necessarily mean better IMC


It actually does. Neither the 8700K nor 9700K had anywhere close to the IMC on the 10900K.

Everyone going from 12th to 13th gen getting a few hundred MHZ higher on both G1 DDR4 and G2 DDR5.

I've actually used the same ram kit since 8700K and verified improvements in OC and timings across each chip, have you tried to do this?


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> It actually does. Neither the 8700K nor 9700K had anywhere close to the IMC on the 10900K.
> 
> Everyone going from 12th to 13th gen getting a few hundred MHZ higher on both G1 DDR4 and G2 DDR5.
> 
> I've actually used the same ram kit since 8700K and verified improvements in OC and timings across each chip, have you tried to do this?


Dude, I think you are misunderstanding me. I mean within the same generation of Chips. Like you can get a better IMC on an i5 than even an i9. Like you will most certainly get 4000G1+ out of a 13900KS, but you can definitely get i9's with sub optimal IMC's. That's all I was saying.

Also yeah I've had the same ram kit throughout 3 chips. No idea how good the 8700K IMC was because I hit a brick wall with my motherboard first (3600 2x16 dual rank)


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> When I had a 12600 non K I couldn't boot into windows without bsod on both my two kits at 3600CL16 (The ones I talk about all the time that do 4200CL16 and 4900+CL17). Sold it, got 12600K and Z board, currently stuck at 3800CL13 G1 on that.
> 
> So pretty much a double lottery fail in a row on the IMCs come to think of it and why I'm overspending on a 13900KS next to try guarantee a good bin.











This is from i2hards testing where they put all MBs to the limit with tight timings etc in gear 1. You see the strength of Asus bios/1dpc-board.


----------



## bhav

Well it doesn't say what the timings are, if you're blocked by a chips IMC, you wont get any higher on any mobo.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> Well it doesn't say what the timings are, if you're blocked by a chips IMC, you wont get any higher on any mobo.






 you can see what timings they use. Quite tight! 

If IMC is the limit there is no way around, but here they test with the same CPU and ram so board/bios is the reason for variance. That IMC on their 12100F is damn impressive. 3800 in gear 1...


----------



## Cryptocurrencyhead

PhoenixMDA said:


> Arround a half hour less as anta777 extrem, i need arround 2h hour with my daily.
> Nothing for short testing^^, but for 24/7 stability test is that ok.
> View attachment 2527568


I did not know that such low timings are possible on DDR4, this is the first time I see it. You are a true RAM overclocker


----------



## bhav

Cryptocurrencyhead said:


> I did not know that such low timings are possible on DDR4, this is the first time I see it. You are a true RAM overclocker


10900K ram overclocking was easy, just increase the dram voltage and hope the ram doesn't fry:



http://imgur.com/5vIOXDD


Lower middle timings is from Samsung B die, but micron cost much less.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

bhav said:


> 10900K ram overclocking was easy, just increase the dram voltage and hope the ram doesn't fry:
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/5vIOXDD
> 
> 
> Lower middle timings is from Samsung B die, but micron cost much less.


The difference is you has 16Gbit Micron RevB Chips that is Single Rank, Dual Rank to get stable in high frequency is much more difficult.
On CML it was important not only to have the Hardware you need for such a setting.
Also to search the correct Slope's voltage's, vref etc, to get reboot stability in every case.
To push only voltage bring nothing there.


----------



## bhav

PhoenixMDA said:


> The difference is you has 16Gbit Micron RevB Chips that is Single Rank, Dual Rank to get stable in high frequency is much more difficult.
> On CML it was important not only to have the Hardware you need for such a setting.
> Also to search the correct Slope's voltage's, vref etc, to get reboot stability in every case.
> To push only voltage bring nothing there.


Its not really, its XMP settings now.

You can get 2x16 DR samsung B die at 4800CL18 XMP, and 2x16 DR DJR has been pushed above 5000 a long time ago as well.

4600 SR or DR took little effort for a 10900K.

SR OCs, you're looking at stuff like 5600 on DJR / 5800 on Micron B die for actually impressive stuff, DR DDR4, 4800-5200 maybe.


----------



## SunnyStefan

bhav said:


> 4600 SR or DR took little effort for a 10900K.


Really? If you ask me stabilizing 4600mhz DR b-die with a 10900k _and_ decent timings is no easy feat.
There's no way you can match PhoenixMDA's tight timings or AIDA results without also delving into slopes / skews / voltage ratios (ie: a lot of effort).
SR Micron can hit 4600mhz + without too much fuss, but only with very loose timings. Your experience with overclocking SR micron is not representative of DR b-die.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

bhav said:


> Its not really, its XMP settings now.
> 
> You can get 2x16 DR samsung B die at 4800CL18 XMP, and 2x16 DR DJR has been pushed above 5000 a long time ago as well.
> 
> 4600 SR or DR took little effort for a 10900K.
> 
> SR OCs, you're looking at stuff like 5600 on DJR / 5800 on Micron B die for actually impressive stuff, DR DDR4, 4800-5200 maybe.


No 4800cl18 is ultra slow and in 99,9% not possible or stable with b-Die.
Most stable settings with B-Die end between 4400-4533Mhz in fast.
A 4600-4700 Gsat👈 stable Kit in fast and the a great imc you need for that is more as only rar.


----------



## bhav

SunnyStefan said:


> There's no way you can match PhoenixMDA's tight timings or AIDA results without also delving into slopes / skews / voltage ratios (ie: a lot of effort).


Well I never claimed I could, the fun part of overclocking for me is when its cheap ram and overclocks.

In the UK, 2x16 samsung b die stayed at over £300 even for for 3200CL14 for a very long time, it was not an affordable option until Patriot Viper 4000 / 4400 kits became available for £200.

Same as Hynix A die right now, yes you can buy it and get the best Aida scores, but generally for most people you still have to spend over £300 for that.

Even 2x8 Gb samsung b die is still £95 currently, and over £200 for 2x16. Its never been cheap, and the price : performance when it comes to ram is always lame for the best kits.



PhoenixMDA said:


> No 4800cl18 is ultra slow and in 99,9% not possible or stable with b-Die.


In aida sure, what about in actual applications and games?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

bhav said:


> Well I never claimed I could, the fun part of overclocking for me is when its cheap ram and overclocks.
> 
> In the UK, 2x16 samsung b die stayed at over £300 even for for 3200CL14 for a very long time, it was not an affordable option until Patriot Viper 4000 / 4400 kits became available for £200.
> 
> Same as Hynix A die right now, yes you can buy it and get the best Aida scores, but generally for most people you still have to spend over £300 for that.
> 
> Even 2x8 Gb samsung b die is still £95 currently, and over £200 for 2x16. Its never been cheap, and the price : performance when it comes to ram is always lame for the best kits.
> 
> 
> 
> In aida sure, what about in actual applications and games?


You can look benchmarks and settings in hardwareluxx forum, there we have done some competitions, SR B-Die need´s most arround 200-300mhz more with same subs for same performance
ingame, but not in all cases.Superpi is fast SR better because of possible latency arround 31ns.
The best benchsetting i have ever seen was [email protected]
Here are some OC result´s of community
[Sammelthread] - Intel Coffee Lake & Comet Lake RAM OC - Ergebnis-Thread! KEIN Quatschthread!


----------



## Cryptocurrencyhead

bhav said:


> 10900K ram overclocking was easy, just increase the dram voltage and hope the ram doesn't fry:
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/5vIOXDD
> 
> 
> Lower middle timings is from Samsung B die, but micron cost much less.


Latest Intel processors generations did not use. Since 2017 switched to AMD (before that there were HEDT - X99, X79) such low latency for AMD impossible, even with my Samsung B-die.


----------



## bhav

I'm trying to bench latency in games now, but even at the same settings the results fluctuate a lot between each run, so I have to run it 10 times each and take the average, which made me lose interest for now, maybe later or tomorrow.

4800+ tight latency G2 on DDR4, no where has tested it against G1 or DDR5, only up to 4400CL19 has been tested as such.

Then again, Civ 6 turn time bench is just 7 seconds at 4000CL14 SR micron, so what does it even matter if samsung B die or Hynix A die made it 6 seconds for a much higher price?


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> I'm trying to bench latency in games now, but even at the same settings the results fluctuate a lot between each run, so I have to run it 10 times each and take the average, which made me lose interest for now, maybe later or tomorrow.
> 
> 4800+ tight latency G2 on DDR4, no where has tested it against G1 or DDR5, only up to 4400CL19 has been tested as such.
> 
> Then again, Civ 6 turn time bench is just 7 seconds at 4000CL14 SR micron, so what does it even matter if samsung B die or Hynix A die made it 6 seconds for a much higher price?


It will vary between games. As for B-die the major thing is the really low RFC. A very good Micron B kit can be quite similar on most timings. Example:
Rev B: 4000 14-17-17-32 RFC 560
B-die: 4000 15-16-16-26 RFC 240
Usually this gives B-die a 5% edge when CPU bpund in RFC sensitive games, but it can vary between 2-6% depending on the game. SOTTR is for instance very RFC sensitive. Here I got a boost of 6% running my B-die at 3800 15 flat RFC 264, vs rev E 3800 15-20-20 RFC 552 ob my Ryzen 5600X. Both the B-die and rev E are avg bins.

Some games prefer high BW, Cyberpunk or Toral war for instance and can shone in high speed G2 on DDR4 or with DDR5. A guy I talked to with 12400F and Asus B660m K like me ran Hynix DJR G2 at 5300, that is DDR5 territory.


----------



## Taraquin

SunnyStefan said:


> Really? If you ask me stabilizing 4600mhz DR b-die with a 10900k _and_ decent timings is no easy feat.
> There's no way you can match PhoenixMDA's tight timings or AIDA results without also delving into slopes / skews / voltage ratios (ie: a lot of effort).
> SR Micron can hit 4600mhz + without too much fuss, but only with very loose timings. Your experience with overclocking SR micron is not representative of DR b-die.


It will depend on the MB and IMC lottery. A good 2dimm/1dpc board, with good bios (Asus or MSI) with a descent 10900K IMC can do this, but a typically 4dimm/2dpc and avg 10900K IMC won't make it.


----------



## Martin v r

has given up on RTL, as MSI has made a mistake in their bios when running 4x MEM
I hope I can afford a cpu update soon ,maybe the motherboard too
4x Viper cl 19-19-19 4400MHZ @ cl 15-16-16 4300MHZ ,they also run 15-15-15-35 4200 MHZ without problems
have had them up to 4500MHZ but only with 2xmem
whether it's the bios or the cpu that's teasing me, I can't tell


----------



## SunnyStefan

Taraquin said:


> It will depend on the MB and IMC lottery. A good 2dimm/1dpc board, with good bios (Asus or MSI) with a descent 10900K IMC can do this, but a typically 4dimm/2dpc and avg 10900K IMC won't make it.


Yeah, it's definitely possible with the right gear and enough time.

I haven't been able to stabilize 4600c16 with my setup:


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> It will vary between games. As for B-die the major thing is the really low RFC. A very good Micron B kit can be quite similar on most timings. Example:
> Rev B: 4000 14-17-17-32 RFC 560
> B-die: 4000 15-16-16-26 RFC 240
> Usually this gives B-die a 5% edge when CPU bpund in RFC sensitive games, but it can vary between 2-6% depending on the game. SOTTR is for instance very RFC sensitive. Here I got a boost of 6% running my B-die at 3800 15 flat RFC 264, vs rev E 3800 15-20-20 RFC 552 ob my Ryzen 5600X. Both the B-die and rev E are avg bins.
> 
> Some games prefer high BW, Cyberpunk or Toral war for instance and can shone in high speed G2 on DDR4 or with DDR5. A guy I talked to with 12400F and Asus B660m K like me ran Hynix DJR G2 at 5300, that is DDR5 territory.


Right the tRFC on my kit isn't that good. At 4000 550 even wont stabilize, I'm currently running 575, but will try 560 as in your figures.

At 4800 680 tRFC, at 4900 its 700.

The only test I bnothered to run for now is Civ 6 AI benchmark, because its the only non FPS bench I can think of. 4000CL14 G1 is 0.3s faster than 4800CL17 G2, at 30-31s total turn time. Testing for FPS differences with ram at 4K is a pointless waste of time.

So its basically negligible, and simply way more fun to attempt pushing 5000+ G2 once the Z790 is set up.

These 16 Gb SR sticks are simply much nicer for overclocking, to get the same with samsung B die or Hynix DJR, you can only use 2x8 Gb kits.

Managed to get 560 trfc to boot, testing for stability, 550 already won't work no matter the voltages.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> Right the tRFC on my kit isn't that good. At 4000 550 even wont stabilize, I'm currently running 575, but will try 560 as in your figures.
> 
> At 4800 680 tRFC, at 4900 its 700.
> 
> The only test I bnothered to run for now is Civ 6 AI benchmark, because its the only non FPS bench I can think of. 4000CL14 G1 is 0.3s faster than 4800CL17 G2, at 30-31s total turn time. Testing for FPS differences with ram at 4K is a pointless waste of time.
> 
> So its basically negligible, and simply way more fun to attempt pushing 5000+ G2 once the Z790 is set up.
> 
> These 16 Gb SR sticks are simply much nicer for overclocking, to get the same with samsung B die or Hynix DJR, you can only use 2x8 Gb kits.
> 
> Managed to get 560 trfc to boot, testing for stability, 550 already won't work no matter the voltages.


560 RFC at 4000 is quite good for rev B. It doesn't scale with voltage so np matter if you use 1.35v or 1.7v it will be around the same. B-die scales RFC with volt and going from 1.35v to 1.5v can make you run RFC at 270 instead of 300.

My best rev E kit can do 528 RFC at 3800, my worst need 552 so a bit of variance. Rev B usually needs a bit higher RFC so you have a good bin. You can try bringing RAS down if possible as that will bring RC down. RC is quite important.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> 560 RFC at 4000 is quite good for rev B. It doesn't scale with voltage so np matter if you use 1.35v or 1.7v it will be around the same. B-die scales RFC with volt and going from 1.35v to 1.5v can make you run RFC at 270 instead of 300.
> 
> My best rev E kit can do 528 RFC at 3800, my worst need 552 so a bit of variance. Rev B usually needs a bit higher RFC so you have a good bin. You can try bringing RAS down if possible as that will bring RC down. RC is quite important.


I can run 3800 13-17-17-32, or the current 4000 14-18-18-34 in G1 on the current board and CPU, maximum at G2 is 4900 17-22-22-50.

With the new board and 13th gen CPU, I 'm hoping for 4133CL14 G1 (currently works but only in G2), and 5000+ DDR5 speeds in G2.

4200CL14 and 4000CL13 neither work.

Also given that I cant go past 4133CL14, probably don't need anything more than a 13600K actually, for anything higher I would need to use CL15.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Mine currently can do [email protected] @ 1.37mV 18/22s im testing in steps before my days long hci marathons.. like to have safe backs if the biggest fail lol.. After that i give b die another try even using g2 . i just feel to give a chance to this kit as all i have is b dies lol

Dont mind the phone pic i have a tendency for them lol too many pcs around xD (most timings are on auto just dial up my main ones before doing finishing touches later










PD: them ecores sucks lol they just slowdown the process 2x times fold


----------



## bhav

My 12600K ecores seriously suck. 4.0 wont stabilize again at 4000G1, just trying for 3.8 e core and cache instead now.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

i cant stand them they seriously suck specially on hci make testing % slower than having them OFF.
i will play with them on later.they just cb accelerators anyway lol

Edit: so here is @ 500% hci run on them. Didnt even knew the CPU still was overclocked and have cache @ 48x lol


----------



## bhav

On my chip cache simply wont stay above 3600. It works for one reboot, even if stable, the next reboot back to 3600.

E cores at 4000 with ram overclock, they want 1.325 L2 voltage. Setting 1.3v still wont stabilize 3.8.

Just tried installing latest mobo bios and no difference.

And nvm, 4.0 ecores at 1.325v L2 works at 4900G2, still wont work at 4000G1.

3800 / 3800 1.325 maybe, trying now.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Oh wow did you lock it on min as well?


----------



## bhav

zGunBLADEz said:


> Oh wow did you lock it on min as well?


Yes, new bios added min, it does nothing. **** board.

Its looking like for 4000G1, I will have to leave it at 3600/3600, or go with 3800G1 CL13.

This is only until I get the new chip anyway, after that it looks like just 3733CL14 on the DR kit for this chip.

3.8 ecore 1.325v L2 still errors wow. Back to 3600, no extra voltage, 4000 cache.

Cant do anything with the ecores when overclocking the ram, and don't want to set any higher L2 voltage.

4000 cache and 4000G1 ram also a no go, so I can only run 4000G1 with stock 3600 e cores and cache lame.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

intel xtu?
Btw dont talk about errors. I activated pciex5 on this board just for the giggles literally half a million "488k+x whea errors at just at boot not even 1 min of been on. Lolz

How gigabyte didnt catch that crap in testing is beyond me.. Other than that great itx board foe the price. Pciex3.0 only. I would not even dare to run the nvmes on 4.0 either i dial everything up to 3.0 call it a day


----------



## Martin v r

zGunBLADEz said:


> Mine currently can do [email protected] @ 1.37mV 18/22s im testing in steps before my days long hci marathons.. like to have safe backs if the biggest fail lol.. After that i give b die another try even using g2 . i just feel to give a chance to this kit as all i have is b dies lol
> 
> Dont mind the phone pic i have a tendency for them lol too many pcs around xD (most timings are on auto just dial up my main ones before doing finishing touches later
> 
> View attachment 2583377
> 
> 
> PD: them ecores sucks lol they just slowdown the process 2x times fold


----------



## bhav

zGunBLADEz said:


> intel xtu?


? Just testing using OCCT memtest.

Also new bios was worse for the ram OC stability, it was struggling with training 4000G1, rolled back to the one that works.


----------



## bhav

So 4000G1 only works with the e cores underclocked to 3.4. It was doing that by default at auto CPU settings.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

I wont even bother with them man they are useless.

The 13th gen to me is as follow only 2 skus 13600k&13700k if you want 2 extra real cores and a better binned by factory cpu get the 13700k.
Making a decision on the cinebench accelerators "ecores" on the 13900k its out of the question.

Thing are so hideous that literally make hci twice as slow vs having them off ...you can see the perf on the hci speed on ram gets cut in half. So the ecores are slowing the process.

Now, using process lasso and throw everything on them ecores by affinity and run high perf apps by affinity on the real cores a maybe.

Ecores probably would be asking more cpu/sa voltage in top already


----------



## Enterprise24

Hi there, anybody here separates the watercooling loop just for RAM alone?

My idea came up because of the DR B-die (2x16GB Trident Z Neo 3600Mhz CL14 1.45V) like lower and lower temperatures at higher frequencies.
Even with EK monarch or Supercool direct mem waterblock, RAM will still heat up considerably due to heat from 10900K @ 5.3-5.5Ghz and 3080 Ti at around 2Ghz (clock limited due to 2x 8 pin).

My cooling currently consists of GTX 240 + GTS 360 paired with EK Vardar / Gentle Typhoon 1850 rpm, Generic SC600 pump, Supercool direct die (13c lower than stock non delidded), and direct mem waterblock (temp not better than EK monarch TBH), Barrow full cover for 3080 Ti. Currently, I got around 10-12C delta T.

All of this run at 16-16-16-34. I feel that tras 38 can tolerate a bit more heat but maybe just an inconsistent between each training.
4400Mhz 1.525V run at 42C while gaming, rock stable.
4533Mhz 1.57V crash at 42C while gaming, Run fine in GSAT, memtest, testmem due to no heat from GPU involved.
4600Mhz 1.59V TM5 error around 36C crash at 39C while gaming.
4666Mhz 1.615V TM5 error around 33C crash at 36C while gaming.
4700Mhz bootable one time on my Maximus XII Apex, probably not worth trying due to the significant amount of VCCIO and VCCSA.

My upgrade cooling path is an additional XSPC EX 360 and EK PE 360 plus dual d5 pump. Still left with radiator space at the rear of the Thermaltake View 71.
So that is why I got an idea about using a 120mm radiator and my existing SC600 pump just for RAM alone so it doesn't share the heat with CPU and GPU.

Do you think this sound crazy? Or should I just simply do one loop? additional 2x 360mm radiator should provide around 5-6C reduced in delta T so I should still get around 5-6C delta T. Maybe that means 36-37C RAM temperature. But if I separate the loop, RAM should be able to run close to the ambient temperature which is always 25C. Is it really worth the hassle?


----------



## bhav

Enterprise24 said:


> Hi there, anybody here separates the watercooling loop just for RAM alone?
> 
> My idea came up because of the DR B-die (2x16GB Trident Z Neo 3600Mhz CL14 1.45V) like lower and lower temperatures at higher frequencies.
> Even with EK monarch or Supercool direct mem waterblock, RAM will still heat up considerably due to heat from 10900K @ 5.3-5.5Ghz and 3080 Ti at around 2Ghz (clock limited due to 2x 8 pin).
> 
> My cooling currently consists of GTX 240 + GTS 360 paired with EK Vardar / Gentle Typhoon 1850 rpm, Generic SC600 pump, Supercool direct die (13c lower than stock non delidded), and direct mem waterblock (temp not better than EK monarch TBH), Barrow full cover for 3080 Ti. Currently, I got around 10-12C delta T.
> 
> All of this run at 16-16-16-34. I feel that tras 38 can tolerate a bit more heat but maybe just an inconsistent between each training.
> 4400Mhz 1.525V run at 42C while gaming, rock stable.
> 4533Mhz 1.57V crash at 42C while gaming, Run fine in GSAT, memtest, testmem due to no heat from GPU involved.
> 4600Mhz 1.59V TM5 error around 36C crash at 39C while gaming.
> 4666Mhz 1.615V TM5 error around 33C crash at 36C while gaming.
> 4700Mhz bootable one time on my Maximus XII Apex, probably not worth trying due to the significant amount of VCCIO and VCCSA.
> 
> My upgrade cooling path is an additional XSPC EX 360 and EK PE 360 plus dual d5 pump. Still left with radiator space at the rear of the Thermaltake View 71.
> So that is why I got an idea about using a 120mm radiator and my existing SC600 pump just for RAM alone so it doesn't share the heat with CPU and GPU.
> 
> Do you think this sound crazy? Or should I just simply do one loop? additional 2x 360mm radiator should provide around 5-6C reduced in delta T so I should still get around 5-6C delta T. Maybe that means 36-37C RAM temperature. But if I separate the loop, RAM should be able to run close to the ambient temperature which is always 25C. Is it really worth the hassle?


My god, the ram insanity disease is completely setting in, just like me, soon all you will think about is ram, every waking and sleeping second ram. Nothing but ram muehehehehehe!

Honestly though nothing wrong with your temps, and 4400 16-16-16 on DR b die on a 10900k? You know you can go and win the latency competition with that right?

Also just for curiosity. please enter the competion:









New Memory Bandwidth & Latency Competition


Well I suppose, I was comparing to DDR5 and was sad. I already had that setup running at 1.725v ram and 1.28v SA for around 6-8 months 24/7 until getting the 12600K, and after I get the 13900KS, bye bye golden 10900K. No 7700x3d?




www.overclock.net





I want to see if you can hit under 50ns on the test in that thread, current best is 52ns on 10900K & 4200 samsung b die.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> My god, the ram insanity disease is completely setting in, just like me, soon all you will think about is ram, every waking and sleeping second ram. Nothing but ram muehehehehehe!
> 
> Honestly though nothing wrong with your temps, and 4400 16-16-16 on DR b die on a 10900k? You know you can go and win the latency competition with that right?
> 
> Also just for curiosity. please enter the competion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Memory Bandwidth & Latency Competition
> 
> 
> Well I suppose, I was comparing to DDR5 and was sad. I already had that setup running at 1.725v ram and 1.28v SA for around 6-8 months 24/7 until getting the 12600K, and after I get the 13900KS, bye bye golden 10900K. No 7700x3d?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to see if you can hit under 50ns on the test in that thread, current best is 52ns on 10900K & 4200 samsung b die.


one of my mates could bench 4533 c16 DR. Too bad he went ADL : (


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> one of my mates could bench 4533 c16 DR. Too bad he went ADL : (


I saw that result posted by someone else here too, I couldn't get 4600CL15 to boot again on my micron kit so could only test 4533CL15, not even close to samsung B die at 4200CL15.

4600CL15 was a nightmare to get bench stable initially, and I can't be bothered to try for 4700CL16 which it might do.

4533CL15 with enough voltage, boots no issue on micron rev B. 4600 loads of fiddling required and I don't remember how, maybe I had to boot at CL16 then lower it.


----------



## SoloCamo

Finally pulling the trigger on a memory upgrade.

Trident Z Neo 4000 cl16-16-16-36








G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





or 

Ripjaw 4000 cl16-16-16-36








G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





Aside from RGB, is there any actual advantage to the Trident Z's? Are the Ripjaws confirmed as dual rank, too? I don't care about RGB in any way shape or form I'm just after the better modules. If the Ripjaws aren't up to par performance wise or with oc'ing potential it's not worth the money saved as I'm already coming from a cl18 4000 kit (albeit SR with horrid timings).


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Ripjaw 4000 cl16-16-16-36
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from RGB, is there any actual advantage to the Trident Z's? Are the Ripjaws confirmed as dual rank, too? I don't care about RGB in any way shape or form I'm just after the better modules. If the Ripjaws aren't up to par performance wise or with oc'ing potential it's not worth the money saved as I'm already coming from a cl18 4000 kit (albeit SR with horrid timings).


16GB DIMMs + Samsung B-Die = dual rank.

Only differences should be the heat spreader and silicon lottery (and $$).


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> 16GB DIMMs + Samsung B-Die = dual rank.
> 
> Only differences should be the heat spreader and silicon lottery (and $$).


Thanks as always. Is the heat spreader actually better here or is just looks? Gut is telling me go for the tridents (at your prior recommendation) but I feel like I'm paying $40 for rgb.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Thanks as always. Is the heat spreader actually better here or is just looks? Gut is telling me go for the tridents (at your prior recommendation) but I feel like I'm paying $40 for rgb.


the heatspreaders should be equally useless 🙃 

unless you want RGB I'd just get the Ripjaws.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

The Pook said:


> the heatspreaders should be equally useless 🙃
> 
> unless you want RGB I'd just get the Ripjaws.


Lol, on the heat spreaders, but I second the Gskill, just put a fan on ‘em 👍


----------



## ItsCash

Any attempts to OC ram on the new MSI z690 ddr4 edge Wi-Fi bios 7D31v19? TIA.


----------



## bhav

ItsCash said:


> Any attempts to OC ram on the new MSI z690 ddr4 edge Wi-Fi bios 7D31v19? TIA.


Look up Ichirou's posts.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

SoloCamo said:


> Finally pulling the trigger on a memory upgrade.
> 
> Trident Z Neo 4000 cl16-16-16-36
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or
> 
> Ripjaw 4000 cl16-16-16-36
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from RGB, is there any actual advantage to the Trident Z's? Are the Ripjaws confirmed as dual rank, too? I don't care about RGB in any way shape or form I'm just after the better modules. If the Ripjaws aren't up to par performance wise or with oc'ing potential it's not worth the money saved as I'm already coming from a cl18 4000 kit (albeit SR with horrid timings).


Make sure you turn any rgb off before stress testing any kit even with a fan on them.

I mean if you doing those 10-20min tm5 runs that they do here and call stable :rollseyes: you be fine then lolz


----------



## Enterprise24

bhav said:


> My god, the ram insanity disease is completely setting in, just like me, soon all you will think about is ram, every waking and sleeping second ram. Nothing but ram muehehehehehe!
> 
> Honestly though nothing wrong with your temps, and 4400 16-16-16 on DR b die on a 10900k? You know you can go and win the latency competition with that right?
> 
> Also just for curiosity. please enter the competion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Memory Bandwidth & Latency Competition
> 
> 
> Well I suppose, I was comparing to DDR5 and was sad. I already had that setup running at 1.725v ram and 1.28v SA for around 6-8 months 24/7 until getting the 12600K, and after I get the 13900KS, bye bye golden 10900K. No 7700x3d?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to see if you can hit under 50ns on the test in that thread, current best is 52ns on 10900K & 4200 samsung b die.


Hi, Sorry for the late reply. I will enter the competition once I finish my new loop in the new case but it probably gonna take a long time due to waiting for AC high flow next from Germany, which may take up to 60 days. Currently, I am running 4400Mhz due to heat from GPU.
However, here is my best result with AIDA and GSAT 1hr. stable at 4666Mhz (before adding 3080 Ti to the loop). Need to lower the CPU to 5Ghz due to heat again.

PS. I have already made up my mind. My RAM mini loop will consist of Black Ice GTS 120 at the rear of the chassis and a Freezemod combo pump+tank (800L/hr). Got both of these for $35 (the former was open-boxed and the latter was slightly used). So I don't have to worry about other components affecting my RAM temperature anymore hahaha.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

bhav said:


> I'm trying to bench latency in games now, but even at the same settings the results fluctuate a lot between each run, so I have to run it 10 times each and take the average, which made me lose interest for now, maybe later or tomorrow.
> 
> 4800+ tight latency G2 on DDR4, no where has tested it against G1 or DDR5, only up to 4400CL19 has been tested as such.
> 
> Then again, Civ 6 turn time bench is just 7 seconds at 4000CL14 SR micron, so what does it even matter if samsung B die or Hynix A die made it 6 seconds for a much higher price?


also cant compare 12-13th gen to previous gens as the IPC/CACHE specially the L caches are way WAY faster. of course people are finding the hardway why this ddr4 kit b die and everything in between cant work as it did on 8th gen cpu


----------



## bhav

zGunBLADEz said:


> also cant compare 12-13th gen to previous gens as the IPC/CACHE specially the L caches are way WAY faster. of course people are finding the hardway why this ddr4 kit b die and everything in between cant work as it did on 8th gen cpu


Intel need to be sued for destroying their IMC after 10th gen.

Well I wouldn't win, but I'd get to shout at them a lot.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

I mean it aint that serious tho. The ipc speed + cache size + speeds compensates for it tho.


Circa 2018 8700k dr b die kit on my 8700k
Edit wrong pic scratch that lolz have to search for the dr pic in here


----------



## imrevoau

zGunBLADEz said:


> I mean it aint that serious tho. The ipc speed + cache size + speeds compensates for it tho.


Yep. At this point if you have a nice XMP kit of DDR4 4000 or 7200 DDR5 you're basically 95% of the way there already.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

What im working right now... Look at the tRFC on that hynix xD


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> Yep. At this point if you have a nice XMP kit of DDR4 4000 or 7200 DDR5 you're basically 95% of the way there already.


But my ram does 4533CL15 on 10900K, since then its been rendered useless without using junk gear 2.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> But my ram does 4533CL15 on 10900K, since then its been rendered useless without using junk gear 2.


I don't know why it matters, the cache and IPC more than make up for it. it's a non issue, we aren't memory bottlenecked anymore. Regardless I think you need to remember that the new chips support DDR5 so you should be grateful they left us with DDR4 support at all. It's still wayyyy better than RL.


----------



## SoloCamo

zGunBLADEz said:


> Make sure you turn any rgb off before stress testing any kit even with a fan on them.
> 
> I mean if you doing those 10-20min tm5 runs that they do here and call stable :rollseyes: you be fine then lolz


We still haven't advanced to the point where we can turn rgb off without installing some crap software, have we? Also, any reason you'd turn it off besides what I'd imagine are minor power draw / heat?

Kit calls for 1.4v, even If I've got to bump it up ever so slightly I think heat won't be an issue with my case.


----------



## ju-rek

SoloCamo said:


> We still haven't advanced to the point where we can turn rgb off without installing some crap software, have we?


Maybe OpenRGB will turn off permanently?


----------



## imrevoau

SoloCamo said:


> We still haven't advanced to the point where we can turn rgb off without installing some crap software, have we? Also, any reason you'd turn it off besides what I'd imagine are minor power draw / heat?
> 
> Kit calls for 1.4v, even If I've got to bump it up ever so slightly I think heat won't be an issue with my case.


Yeah I've never turned off the RGB, I really don't think it makes any notable difference.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Oh it does make a difference in temperatures but again I dont do 10min ram stress tests.


----------



## SunnyStefan

ju-rek said:


> Maybe OpenRGB will turn off permanently?


On my system OpenRGB needs to run every boot, or else my G.Skill Trident Z RGB profile resets to 🌈🤮.
I placed a simple .bat script in my startup folder that does the following:

 Starts OpenRGB
 Applies my saved 'RGB OFF' profile
 Closes OpenRGB after a few seconds
Nothing runs in the background or hides in my system tray afterwards.


----------



## bhav

The rgb on my ballistix max is puke, Unsyncronised rtandom rainbow vomit, and none of the software I tried helps, crucial's own software fails to even start.


----------



## Thrakis

Martin v r said:


> 80-48-48
> 
> I use 80-48-60 ore 80-60-60
> but here 4x8GB viper att 80-48-60 1.56v ned more voltage at 4x vs 2x
> 
> an sa voltage is fu.. on mine cpu an high to whit 4x vs 2x mem 😢 4000MHZ it is 1.35v 2x an 4x it is 1.38v whit 4200MHZ 4x
> 
> voltage on mem is 1.56v cl 14-14-14-35 4000mhz, same at 4200 cl 15-15-15
> View attachment 2580911
> View attachment 2580912


Nice results for 4 sticks.
You might wanna try 4200 CL14 with 2x8GB sticks.
Vdimm around 1,6V. 
I run them cool with water, first TM5 errors appear with temps around/over 40*C - otherwise none error under 33*C at TM5 extreme load.
tWTR_S changed lately from 2 to 3, which eliminated very sporadic errors (1 per few hours TM5).


----------



## Martin v r

Thrakis said:


> Nice results for 4 sticks.
> You might wanna try 4200 CL14 with 2x8GB sticks.
> Vdimm around 1,6V.
> I run them cool with water, first TM5 errors appear with temps around/over 40*C - otherwise none error under 33*C at TM5 extreme load.
> tWTR_S changed lately from 2 to 3, which eliminated very sporadic errors (1 per few hours TM5).


msi tcke can not go low att 2  msi has a lot bugs in the bios RTL is **** up on this bios whit 4x,but it is okay whit 2x mem

I need 32GB, and bought viper because I couldn't get hold of ballistix rgb 32gb 4400mhz cl19, got hold of 1 set for my boy before the price skyrocketed
ballistix rgb 32gb 4400mhz cl 19 has a very high bandbed like mine, which is run with tweak, and they run 19-19-19-XX, so when the price becomes lower again, they will replace these vipers, otherwise I will move on for DDR5
ballistix 64XX/65XX no tweak
so my boy is a happy boy


----------



## bhav

Martin v r said:


> msi tcke can not go low att 2  msi has a lot bugs in the bios RTL is **** up on this bios whit 4x,but it is okay whit 2x mem
> 
> I need 32GB, and bought viper because I couldn't get hold of ballistix rgb 32gb 4400mhz cl19, got hold of 1 set for my boy before the price skyrocketed
> ballistix rgb 32gb 4400mhz cl 19 has a very high bandbed like mine, which is run with tweak, and they run 19-19-19-XX, so when the price becomes lower again, they will replace these vipers, otherwise I will move on for DDR5
> ballistix 64XX/65XX no tweak
> so my boy is a happy boy


Ballistix max is discontinued now though, thats why the price went back up on the few remaining kits.

All second hand sales I've found so far are £250-300.

Likewise I regret not having purchased 2 of them when they went on sale now.

The 2x8 ballistix max is useless though, same prices as 2x8 Samsung b die kits and much worse ICs, its only the 2x16 that was worth it when it dropped to around £180 due to it being SR.

You might want to consider fury renegade 2x16 3600, they are DR but can manage 4200CL16 with a lot lower trfc than micron ram so performance is actually about the same.


----------



## Pk1

Hello friends! Can someone please post a link for the Asrock Timing Configurator 4.0.14 that works with Z690/Z790. I searched but could only find the older versions. Thanks so much!


----------



## bscool

Pk1 said:


> Hello friends! Can someone please post a link for the Asrock Timing Configurator 4.0.14 that works with Z690/Z790. I searched but could only find the older versions. Thanks so much!











*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now. just not sure which batch. Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com Part# doesn't...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Pk1

bscool said:


> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now. just not sure which batch. Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com Part# doesn't...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


You're the best! Thank you.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> Ballistix max is discontinued now though, thats why the price went back up on the few remaining kits.
> 
> All second hand sales I've found so far are £250-300.
> 
> Likewise I regret not having purchased 2 of them when they went on sale now.
> 
> The 2x8 ballistix max is useless though, same prices as 2x8 Samsung b die kits and much worse ICs, its only the 2x16 that was worth it when it dropped to around £180 due to it being SR.
> 
> You might want to consider fury renegade 2x16 3600, they are DR but can manage 4200CL16 with a lot lower trfc than micron ram so performance is actually about the same.


Are fury renegade B-die? Where I live Patriot 4000c19 1.35v and 4400c19 1.45v give most bang for bucks. Costs about 130usd. They usually do 4200 17-flat at 1.45v, some even do 16 flat at 1.5v with a bit of luck.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> Are fury renegade B-die? Where I live Patriot 4000c19 1.35v and 4400c19 1.45v give most bang for bucks. Costs about 130usd. They usually do 4200 17-flat at 1.45v, some even do 16 flat at 1.5v with a bit of luck.


No they are Hynix DJR, just a lot cheaper.

Also I'm not sure you're looking at the right Patriot ram. Its the steel series 4000 / 4400 kits that are B die, and they are neither cheap or any decent bang for buck compared to DDR5 M die. I can't find any 2x16 in stock anywhere, and if you were quoting the 130 USD price tag for just 2x8 then lol no.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> No they are Hynix DJR, just a lot cheaper.
> 
> Also I'm not sure you're looking at the right Patriot ram. Its the steel series 4000 / 4400 kits that are B die, and they are neither cheap or any decent bang for buck compared to DDR5 M die. I can't find any 2x16 in stock anywhere, and if you were quoting the 130 USD price tag for just 2x8 then lol no.


I live in Norway, here everything costs more. Cheap DR B-die 2x16 is 240usd, the Patriot is 2x8 yes.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> I live in Norway, here everything costs more. Cheap DR B-die 2x16 is 240usd, the Patriot is 2x8 yes.


Thats got nothing to do with living in Norway, Samsung B die is not cheap or good bang for buck anywhere in the world.

No one should be wasting money on it for a new kit instead of swapping to DDR5 instead.

Micron E die is also more expensive than DDR5, again neither of these are worth considering purchasing under any circumstance, if you're going to waste that much money on ram you can get Hynix A die DDR5 for the same price, or Hynix M die for less.

The only 'decent' DDR4 that is available for cheap is Hynix DJR, for anyone deciding to stick with DDR4 or looking to upgrade an old system with older lesser ram, this is the only thing thats currently worth paying for - £60 for 2x8, and £110 for 2x16, and I'm quite sure the UK is more expensive than anywhere else.

4200CL17 on the £60 2x8 3200 kits, and 4200CL16 on the £110 2x16 3600 kits have all been confirmed on this forum. The 2x8 is not available in 3600, the 2x16 3600 is only £2 more that 2x16 3200.

If you wanted Samsung B die, you were supposed to buy it 1-2 years ago, not now and not at the full price it costs.

If you need DDR4 right now to update an old system and don't already have anything better, buy a kingston fury renegade while it is cheap and before it is EOL and discontinued. This current sale looks the same as when Ballistix Max 4400 2x16 dropped from £350 to £180, as soon as they are sold out there will not be anymore made and second hand prices will shoot back up.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> Thats got nothing to do with living in Norway, Samsung B die is not cheap or good bang for buck anywhere in the world.
> 
> No one should be wasting money on it for a new kit instead of swapping to DDR5 instead.
> 
> Micron E die is also more expensive than DDR5, again neither of these are worth considering purchasing under any circumstance, if you're going to waste that much money on ram you can get Hynix A die DDR5 for the same price, or Hynix M die for less.
> 
> The only 'decent' DDR4 that is available for cheap is Hynix DJR, for anyone deciding to stick with DDR4 or looking to upgrade an old system with older lesser ram, this is the only thing thats currently worth paying for - £60 for 2x8, and £110 for 2x16, and I'm quite sure the UK is more expensive than anywhere else.
> 
> 4200CL17 on the £60 2x8 3200 kits, and 4200CL16 on the £110 2x16 3600 kits have all been confirmed on this forum. The 2x8 is not available in 3600, the 2x16 3600 is only £2 more that 2x16 3200.
> 
> If you wanted Samsung B die, you were supposed to buy it 1-2 years ago, not now and not at the full price it costs.
> 
> If you need DDR4 right now to update an old system and don't already have anything better, buy a kingston fury renegade while it is cheap and before it is EOL and discontinued. This current sale looks the same as when Ballistix Max 4400 2x16 dropped from £350 to £180, as soon as they are sold out there will not be anymore made and second hand prices will shoot back up.


Cheapest 2x16 DDR5 M-die kit costs 250usd here so still more expensive than B-die, D5 MBs generally cost 30-50usd more than D4, but considering the performanceincrease they are worth it in mpst cases.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> Cheapest 2x16 DDR5 M-die kit costs 250usd here so still more expensive than B-die, D5 MBs generally cost 30-50usd more than D4, but considering the performanceincrease they are worth it in mpst cases.


No it doesn't, they are as low as £120 for 4800 kits, £150 for 5600, and if you live in Norway you can import from UK if you claim you aren't getting those prices there.

UK pricing is consistent with current US pricing, and any time I've looked at EU stores they are cheaper than UK prices.

I tried to look just now, but not my fault that Norway stores don't use English and I can't understand anything.

Also if you have an Amazon Prime account, you get free imports on prime delivery, so try using that.

Samsung B die has never been cheap or best bang for buck, and not because its the best DDR4 either, but because it uses 20nm chips that are much more expensive to make than newer <17nm ones. Its a premium price for a premium product, nice to have for benchies and you get what you pay for sure, but it is not and has never been 'best bang for buck'.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> No it doesn't, they are as low as £120 for 4800 kits, £150 for 5600, and if you live in Norway you can import from UK if you claim you aren't getting those prices there.
> 
> UK pricing is consistent with current US pricing, and any time I've looked at EU stores they are cheaper than UK prices.
> 
> I tried to look just now, but not my fault that Norway stores don't use English and I can't understand anything.
> 
> Also if you have an Amazon Prime account, you get free imports on prime delivery, so try using that.
> 
> Samsung B die has never been cheap or best bang for buck, and not because its the best DDR4 either, but because it uses 20nm chips that are much more expensive to make than newer <17nm ones. Its a premium price for a premium product, nice to have for benchies and you get what you pay for sure, but it is not and has never been 'best bang for buck'.


We have a 25% tax + expensive shipping, but if I could find a 4800 kit that for sure is M-die I could get it for about 170-180usd after conversion so a bit cheaper. There is no such thing as free imports here, I wish  If stores are in VOEC registry I can buy them for shipping + 25% tax, if not in VOEC I must pay 25% tax, + shipping and a importfee of usually 15-30usd depending on which services delivers.

Hmm, I found a low binned 2x16gb B-die for 180usd in Norway, not that bad!


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> We have a 25% tax + expensive shipping, but if I could find a 4800 kit that for sure is M-die I could get it for about 170-180usd after conversion so a bit cheaper. There is no such thing as free imports here, I wish  If stores are in VOEC registry I can buy them for shipping + 25% tax, if not in VOEC I must pay 25% tax, + shipping and a importfee of usually 15-30usd depending on which services delivers.
> 
> Hmm, I found a low binned 2x16gb B-die for 180usd in Norway, not that bad!


I can't even find any tech stores in Norway beyond Komplett, and I can't understand anything on their site. Fyi MemoryC export to anywhere in the EU for 22 euro delivery charge and are based in Ireland so shouldn't incur as many post brexit import taxes?

Low bin B die can also be very hit or miss. Older pre 2019 ones aren't anywhere near as good as later ones, and current low bins seems to be really bad on both Hynix DJR and Micron E die.

4200 seems possible on any of these three, but the timings vary considerably, someone that got a 2022 Micron E die kit can't get it anywhere close to my 3 year old one.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> I can't even find any tech stores in Norway beyond Komplett, and I can't understand anything on their site. Fyi MemoryC export to anywhere in the EU for 22 euro delivery charge and are based in Ireland so shouldn't incur as many post brexit import taxes?
> 
> Low bin B die can also be very hit or miss. Older pre 2019 ones aren't anywhere near as good as later ones, and current low bins seems to be really bad on both Hynix DJR and Micron E die.
> 
> 4200 seems possible on any of these three, but the timings vary considerably, someone that got a 2022 Micron E die kit can't get it anywhere close to my 3 year old one.


All shops must be VOEC registered or wr get a 15-30usd tax on top of shipping and 25%. Ebay, aliexpress and amazon is VOEC, but can't find MemoryC. I don't thin pre 2019 B-die is for sale as new anymore where I live


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> All shops must be VOEC registered or wr get a 15-30usd tax on top of shipping and 25%. Ebay, aliexpress and amazon is VOEC, but can't find MemoryC. I don't thin pre 2019 B-die is for sale as new anymore where I live


Oh I thought you had said it was second hand. I still wouldn't currently pay $180 for 2x16 DDR4 for anything, you should move onto DDR5 if you actually need to buy new ram, DDR4 setups is just for people who already own such ram.

Like why pay $180 for DDR4 instead of DDR5 either Hynix die? The only reason to spend that much on DDR4 was when DDR5 prices still started at $400 for 4800.


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> the heatspreaders should be equally useless 🙃
> 
> unless you want RGB I'd just get the Ripjaws.


Ended up with the Trident Z's as I know they'll eventually get passed down to one of my nephews who will enjoy the RGB puke. Glad I did as they look much nicer in person (so far from the packaging) than they do online.

That said, just so I can mentally help myself justify this purchase, besides Aida64 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider are there any games or even benches that are good to evaluate the upgrade?

Going to run benches on my current kit stock (SR 3600 cl18-22-22-42 2t), with my current setting of 4000 w/ same timings and then the new DR 4000 cl16-16-16-36


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Ended up with the Trident Z's as I know they'll eventually get passed down to one of my nephews who will enjoy the RGB puke. Glad I did as they look much nicer in person (so far from the packaging) than they do online.
> 
> That said, just so I can mentally help myself justify this purchase, besides Aida64 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider are there any games or even benches that are good to evaluate the upgrade?
> 
> Going to run benches on my current kit stock (SR 3600 cl18-22-22-42 2t), with my current setting of 4000 w/ same timings and then the new DR 4000 cl16-16-16-36


are you just setting primaries? 

PUBG/CS:GO/GTA V? For PUBG use the replay feature, replays are rendered in-engine. 

Gains _should_ be minimal at realistic settings for a 6900 6800 XT though🙃


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> are you just setting primaries?
> 
> PUBG/CS:GO/GTA V? For PUBG use the replay feature, replays are rendered in-engine.
> 
> Gains _should_ be minimal at realistic settings for a 6900 6800 XT though🙃


For now, I'm just going to use XMP. I'll run GTA V as that can always use a cpu uplift. Also now that BF2042 is often pegging my cpu at 100% usage even at 4k during 128 player maps, I'll see if I get any noticeable differences. Obviously this is near impossible to accurately measure outside of my butt dyno in this case. Game actually runs tremendously better now that they updated the engine to use available threads instead of being locked to 8. BFV was this way too so I have no idea why they went the opposite route in BF2042 until the latest update.

To clarify, it will be three runs in total.

SR kit of 3600 @ XMP cl18
Same kit, same timings, at 4000

Then the B-Die at XMP. Will then tune from there and rerun once I get some stable settings. Really hoping to get it down a hair or two, but I don't have active cooling over the ram either so I'm not sure how much headroom I'll have on volts.

Realistically I want reliability and if that ends up being XMP, so be it.

Also, my 6900xt has officially put you on the list. It wasn't my choice, but you did it to yourself.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> For now, I'm just going to use XMP.
> 
> To clarify, it will be three runs in total.
> 
> SR kit of 3600 @ XMP cl18
> Same kit, same timings, at 4000
> 
> Then the B-Die at XMP. Will then tune from there and rerun once I get some stable settings. Really hoping to get it down a hair or two, but I don't have active cooling over the ram either so I'm not sure how much headroom I'll have on volts.
> 
> Realistically I want reliability and if that ends up being XMP, so be it.


Unless you're testing at 1080p low or something I'd be surprised if there's much more difference than margin of error but it'd be interesting to see anyway 

you're leaving most of the performance on the table with auto subs though  



SoloCamo said:


> Also, my 6900xt has officially put you on the list. It wasn't my choice, but you did it to yourself.


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> Unless you're testing at 1080p low or something I'd be surprised if there's much more difference than margin of error but it'd be interesting to see anyway
> 
> you're leaving most of the performance on the table with auto subs though


Yea, at 4k right now at high on SOTTR it's pretty much identical with my SR kit. But at 1080p high the gains are there (183fps vs 198fps average) and that's just going from 3600 cl18 same timings to 4000 cl18 same timings (trfc was dropped to a staggeringly low 900 on the 4000 from over 1,000 though)..

Aida64 also howed 54.7ns vs 49.5ns average on the same bench with reads going from 47,900 to 52,800. In BF2042 it stutters way more with 3600. Going to likely put in the b-die kit this weekend so I'll do some more tests but the results I've got so far between aida and sottr already took over two hours.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Yea, at 4k right now at high on SOTTR it's pretty much identical with my SR kit. But at 1080p high the gains are there (183fps vs 198fps average) and that's just going from 3600 cl18 same timings to 4000 cl18 same timings (trfc was dropped to a staggeringly low 900 on the 4000 from over 1,000 though)..
> 
> Aida64 also howed 54.7ns vs 49.5ns average on the same bench with reads going from 47,900 to 52,800. In BF2042 it stutters way more with 3600. Going to likely put in the b-die kit this weekend so I'll do some more tests but the results I've got so far between aida and sottr already took over two hours.


how is the motherboard setting the secondaries/tertiaries between the two? are they identical?


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> how is the motherboard setting the secondaries/tertiaries between the two? are they identical?


You know what good point, pretty sure auto settings are giving me worse secondaries when setting it to 4,000. Will have to confirm.


----------



## Taraquin

SoloCamo said:


> Yea, at 4k right now at high on SOTTR it's pretty much identical with my SR kit. But at 1080p high the gains are there (183fps vs 198fps average) and that's just going from 3600 cl18 same timings to 4000 cl18 same timings (trfc was dropped to a staggeringly low 900 on the 4000 from over 1,000 though)..
> 
> Aida64 also howed 54.7ns vs 49.5ns average on the same bench with reads going from 47,900 to 52,800. In BF2042 it stutters way more with 3600. Going to likely put in the b-die kit this weekend so I'll do some more tests but the results I've got so far between aida and sottr already took over two hours.


100 RFC is about 1ns. Aida scales very well with frequency. Games etc usually don't scale that well.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

bhav said:


> Oh I thought you had said it was second hand. I still wouldn't currently pay $180 for 2x16 DDR4 for anything, you should move onto DDR5 if you actually need to buy new ram, DDR4 setups is just for people who already own such ram.
> 
> Like why pay $180 for DDR4 instead of DDR5 either Hynix die? The only reason to spend that much on DDR4 was when DDR5 prices still started at $400 for 4800.


You forgetting the cost of the mobo itself as well.
Main reason i bought an 13600k and not the 7700x or 7900x..

The 7700x+mobo+ram ddr5 was in the $1100 before taxes.. Also, before amd dropped prices or microcenter offer free ram for all that matters.


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> Also I'm not sure you're looking at the right Patriot ram. Its the steel series 4000 / 4400 kits that are B die, and they are neither cheap or any decent bang for buck compared to DDR5 M die. I can't find any 2x16 in stock anywhere, and if you were quoting the 130 USD price tag for just 2x8 then lol no.


Good patriot B die is still pretty cheap. Here is a 16GB C19 4133 kit that goes for $100 on amazon:

Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4133MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G413C9K at Amazon.com 

Same memory here, overclocks decently.


----------



## bhav

zGunBLADEz said:


> You forgetting the cost of the mobo itself as well.
> Main reason i bought an 13600k and not the 7700x or 7900x..
> 
> The 7700x+mobo+ram ddr5 was in the $1100 before taxes.. Also, before amd dropped prices or microcenter offer free ram for all that matters.


Different countries, different offers.

I don't think anywhere outside the US is give away free mobos or ram.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> Good patriot B die is still pretty cheap. Here is a 16GB C19 4133 kit that goes for $100 on amazon:
> 
> Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4133MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G413C9K at Amazon.com
> 
> Same memory here, overclocks decently.
> View attachment 2586166


I wouldn't call that cheap when you can get 2x16 of anything else for less.

For 2x8 its expensive and only useful for running benchmarks.

Theres still no such thing as 'cheap' samsung B die when everything else costs so much less, pretty sure 2x16 M die is like what $10-20 more currently?


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> I wouldn't call that cheap when you can get 2x16 of anything else for less.
> 
> For 2x8 its expensive and only useful for running benchmarks.
> 
> Theres still no such thing as 'cheap' samsung B die when everything else costs so much less, pretty sure 2x16 M die is like what $10-20 more currently?


Is this a joke?


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> I wouldn't call that cheap when you can get 2x16 of anything else for less.


You don't need anything more than 8GB to run pretty much anything for the standard user. So if anything, 16GB is overkill.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> You don't need anything more than 8GB to run pretty much anything for the standard user. So if anything, 16GB is overkill.


Well ok, and why does a standard user need samsung B die instead of anything that costs half as much?

Just checked on newegg, you can get 2x8 Gb Micron E die 3200 for $35.

So how is 2x8 Gb for over £100 'cheap'?


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> Well ok, and why does a standard user need samsung B die instead of anything that costs half as much?
> 
> Just checked on newegg, you can get 2x8 Gb 3200 for $35.
> 
> So how is 2x8 Gb for over £100 'cheap'?


The standard user probably doesn't even know what a "B Die" is. Lol.


The "standard user" Will turn on XMP (maybe) then use their PC. I think it's already established that the more "premium" memory kits are REALLY only worth it if you know how to tune memory.


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> The standard user probably doesn't even know what a "B Die" is. Lol.
> 
> 
> The "standard user" Will turn on XMP (maybe) then use their PC. I think it's already established that the more "premium" memory kits are REALLY only worth it if you know how to tune memory.


Yes exactly.

But I'm very certain this is micron E die just without heatspreaders, you can easily just OC it yourself:









Crucial 16GB DDR4 3200 Desktop Memory - Newegg.com


Buy Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model CT2K8G4DFRA32A with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





Well nvm, I missed the ships from China part, but still plenty of other 2x8s at £45.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> Yes exactly.
> 
> But I'm very certain this is micron E die just without heatspreaders, you can easily just OC it yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crucial 16GB DDR4 3200 Desktop Memory - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model CT2K8G4DFRA32A with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well nvm, I missed the ships from China part, but still plenty of other 2x8s at £45.


For a while there was a website selling g skill Ripjaws 2x8 B Die for around 50 pounds, I got all my friends to buy that when they were building new PC's. I think we singlehandedly cleared the whole stock. Lol. In Australia it's basically impossible to get B Die at a decent price now


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> For a while there was a website selling g skill Ripjaws 2x8 B Die for around 50 pounds, I got all my friends to buy that when they were building new PC's. I think we singlehandedly cleared the whole stock. Lol. In Australia it's basically impossible to get B Die at a decent price now


Same with the UK. In any case, over $100 for 2x8 is definitely not a good deal.


----------



## storm-chaser

imrevoau said:


> The standard user probably doesn't even know what a "B Die" is. Lol.
> 
> 
> The "standard user" Will turn on XMP (maybe) then use their PC. I think it's already established that the more "premium" memory kits are REALLY only worth it if you know how to tune memory.


I should have said _standard overclocker. _

How much ram do you need for your rig to operate correctly?


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> Same with the UK. In any case, over $100 for 2x8 is definitely not a good deal.


$100 for a decent B die kit is a fine deal.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> I should have said _standard overclocker. _
> 
> How much ram do you need for your rig to operate correctly?


There are more games that will utilize over 16 Gb than there are ones that will benefit from Samsung B die over any other DDR4 kit.



storm-chaser said:


> $100 for a decent B die kit is a fine deal.


If it was 2x16 sure. For 2x8 no.


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> There are more games that will utilize over 16 Gb than there are ones that will benefit from Samsung B die over any other DDR4 kit.


You don't need 32GB to game. Period.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> You don't need 32GB to game. Period.


You actually do for a lot of games once you start installing mods. Anno 1800 will also sometimes CTD on 16 Gb.

Upcoming game Star Citizen will need a minimum of 16 Gb and actually use up to 24 Gb:



https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042417374-Star-Citizen-Minimum-System-Requirements


----------



## storm-chaser

Really, what games. Serious question, curious now.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> Really, what games. Serious question, curious now.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/ufrn7o









Games Requiring 32 GB RAM: Which Ones? (All the Info)


Here's which games really require 32 GB RAM. Learn all about the types of games and activities done while gaming that require a lot of RAM power. Let's go!




techwithtech.com





' The largest map on Galactic Civilizations 3 recommends _32GB_ of _ram_ '

A few users on this forum mentioned needing 64 Gb to run modded Kerbal Space Program and other games using the same engine / assets or such.

I've modded oblivion to need well over 20 Gb and run like a slideshow on a 1080 Ti, not actually retried it yet on the 3080 Ti.

Also if you ever wanted to boost performance in some games, 16 Gb ramdrive for No Man's Sky:









So I created a RAM Cache Drive for No Man's Sky... :: No Man's Sky General Discussion


I'm sure by now, most of the community has figured out that No Man's Sky is always using your drive while playing. Many of you still haven't realized this aspect of the game, crediting the performance loss on high-end gaming computers to poor optimization. While this is true, a large portion of...




steamcommunity.com





Rimworld takes exponentially more time to load up with the more mods you have and the lower the ram.

Anno 1800 16 Gb issues thread -

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/anno/comments/kvo057/_/gizie5w


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/anno1800/comments/lmj39t

'I have 32GB and I see 28GB total RAM usage late game at present...I don't have the land of lions DLC yet so I expect it to rise.

As others have said it's to do with all the sessions running at the same time and how you can seamlessly switch between.

Impressive.'

Cities Skylines with mods:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/kt2nle

Fortnite 0.1% & 1% lows










Splitgate 0.1% & 1% lows:










Whatever game this is on 16 Gb:


----------



## zGunBLADEz

ermmm no. benefit over 16GB perse was because of dual rank no because "size" was needed .. now in this chipsets dualrank benefits are practically gone bcuz of ipc/cache increases XD

needing more than 16GB ram is very VERY rare in a regular day to day basics.. for a regular JOE playing regular pc games non modded


----------



## storm-chaser

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermmm no. benefit over 16GB perse was because of dual rank no because "size" was needed .. now in this chipsets dualrank benefits are practically gone bcuz of ipc/cache increases XD
> 
> needing more than 16GB ram is very VERY rare in a regular day to day basics.. for a regular JOE playing regular pc games non modded


Exactly even the article he provided pretty much stated that. Point being, no need for 32gb for anything in the retail market, as I said originally. Want to OC? 2 x 8gb is way more than enough as well. Then again I do have 64gb just for fun so a little of the pot calling the kettle black lol


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> Well ok, and why does a standard user need samsung B die instead of anything that costs half as much?
> 
> Just checked on newegg, you can get 2x8 Gb Micron E die 3200 for $35.
> 
> So how is 2x8 Gb for over £100 'cheap'?


3200Mhz is nowhere near 4133MHz, you are always going to pay a premium for speed, this is a given.


----------



## bhav

zGunBLADEz said:


> ermmm no. benefit over 16GB perse was because of dual rank no because "size" was needed .. now in this chipsets dualrank benefits are practically gone bcuz of ipc/cache increases XD
> 
> needing more than 16GB ram is very VERY rare in a regular day to day basics.. for a regular JOE playing regular pc games non modded





storm-chaser said:


> Exactly even the article he provided pretty much stated that. Point being, no need for 32gb for anything in the retail market, as I said originally. Want to OC? 2 x 8gb is way more than enough as well. Then again I do have 64gb just for fun so a little of the pot calling the kettle black lol


Did either of you even bother checking the full list of what I provided?

Anno 1800, Galciv 3 largest map, and Star Citizen all unmodded require above 16 Gb to not devolve into a lagfest.

How long do you seriously think 16 Gb is going to remain valid for? Literall in the next 1-2 years, half of all new games will be requiring a minimum of 16 Gb.

Average Joe also doesn't need to spend $100 on 2x8 Gb instead of £40 for a 2x8 Gb kit or £70 on a 2x16 Gb.

All the excuses you make apply equally to wasting money on Samsung B die 2x8 Gb.

In fact you absolutely will notice more benefit to 2x16 3600CL18 for CHEAPER than 2x8 Gb Samsung B die in more cases for gaming than you ever will notice on 2x8 any 3200CL16 vs 2x8 Gb highest end Samsung B die.

Also applying what average joe needs to defend your case use over mine and not the other way around, this is overclock.not, not average joe using a PC to just check emails.net.

Ofc everyone here is pushing their computers to max use. The majority of PC gamers are installing mods for the games they play, who the heck plays TES games on PC without any mods?

The biggest advantage to gaming on PC is being able to install mods which consoles cannot do, and having the performance and hardware to do so.

Now what the heck exactly does average joe need 4133CL15 2x8 samsung B die? Just so he can get bigger numbers in Aida benchmark? And how exactly does that help him at all?

Any new and upcoming games that want to look like / rival graphics like these are going to require 32 Gb+ ram to run at maxed settings:


----------



## The Pook

the average Joe doesn't know what RAM is and isn't buying it anyway

2x8 is for the homeless
non B-Die is also for the homeless 

buy a 2x16 B-Die and join the righteous


----------



## storm-chaser

The Pook said:


> non B-Die is also for the homeless


Now this I agree with. 😎


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Been using 16gb since whew who knows Sandy bridge and up?.... Still havent use over that so i guess we going to keep waiting 

Go a few pages back and i think you missed my x299 rigs xD


----------



## zGunBLADEz

The Pook said:


> the average Joe doesn't know what RAM is and isn't buying it anyway
> 
> 2x8 is for the homeless
> non B-Die is also for the homeless
> 
> buy a 2x16 B-Die and join the righteous


The hynix kit i have disagreed in the lolz


----------



## bhav

The Pook said:


> the average Joe doesn't know what RAM is and isn't buying it anyway
> 
> 2x8 is for the homeless
> non B-Die is also for the homeless
> 
> buy a 2x16 B-Die and join the righteous





zGunBLADEz said:


> The hynix kit i have disagreed in the lolz


Well I mean what do I even know, I only have crap ram and haven't ever owned samsung B die.

I guess I really should have spent double on a B die kit just to put in my G4560 and radeon 550 test bench. It would be like 50% faster with the b die instead right?


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> Well I mean what do I even know, I only have crap ram


Indeed, YGWYPF



bhav said:


> It would be like 50% faster with the b die instead right?


At least 87% faster


----------



## zGunBLADEz

I do remember paying over $400 for a @ gskill 32gb kit b die 3600 which is still in use on my 5900x rig @ 3800/14s. That kit have seen alot of cpus including @ 8700k which manage to run it at 3900.. It also saw 1700/1700x/1800x/2700x

Those patriot 4400 i remember paying like $110 in 2020 if im not mistaken.
My 7980xe did a nice couple days hci run on them @4200/16s xD on a evga micro2

ALso own a teamxtreem kit b die "64gb 3733 KIT" VERY RARE kit as well that did a gnarly couple days runs on hci on the evga dark x299 

But who knows. I guess i just need al cheapo hynix 16gb this time lolz.


----------



## storm-chaser

Main thing I focus on most of the time is latency. If the memory can run a low CL # for a given clock speed, I am interested... so if the cheap memory can run what I want that really would theoretically be all that I care about. 

Then again, I am also a junkie for bandwidth in some cases... Z die?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

I got at 4200/16 on the 7980xe 50ns 125/108/108 could have do lil bit more but didnt pass my 48hrs min hci run 130/112/112 tops.


----------



## storm-chaser

zGunBLADEz said:


> I got at 4200/16 on the 7980xe 50ns 125/108/108 could have do lil bit more but didnt pass my 48hrs min hci run 130/112/112 tops.


Those 7980s are no joke when it comes to memory performance.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> Main thing I focus on most of the time is latency. If the memory can run a low CL # for a given clock speed, I am interested... so if the cheap memory can run what I want that really would theoretically be all that I care about.


I mean, how many times do you need me to repost the info I already put in my sig?

2x16 4400 ballistix max - £180 vs 2x16 4000+ b die £250+

2x16 3200CL16 ballistix - £150 vs 2x16 3200CL14 b die £320

2x8 3200 DJR - £60 vs 2x8 3600 b die £100.

So no, Samsung B die is NEVER cheap.

Right now in the US you can buy the 2x8 no heatspreader crucial 3200 kit for $35, crucial DDR4 is currently only Micron E die, and thats the second best DDR4 IC available on current kits since micron B die was discontinued.

Which makes $100 for 2x8 samsung B die an absolute rip off.


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> I mean, how many times do you need me to repost the info I already put in my sig?
> 
> 2x16 4400 ballistix max - £180 vs 2x16 4000+ b die £250+
> 
> 2x16 3200CL16 ballistix - £150 vs 2x16 3200CL14 b die £320
> 
> 2x8 3200 DJR - £60 vs 2x8 3600 B die £100.
> 
> So no, Samsung B die is NEVER cheap.


Alright, alright. We get it. You love cheap memory.



bhav said:


> Which makes $100 for 2x8 samsung B die an absolute rip off.


I don't know about you, but I buy my b die on cyber Monday, THEN its cheap.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> Alright, alright. We get it. You love cheap memory.
> 
> 
> I don't know about you, but I buy my b die on cyber Monday, THEN its cheap.


I am yet to see a single b die kit on black friday or cyber monday sale.

At least in the UK, not a single B die kit went on sale, and they also had not on newegg for the US.

Its not about 'cheap memory, its about paying double for a less than 1% improvement.

Its always better to buy the cheapest kit with decent dies and manually overclock, most people here already know this.

The top price kits are purely for bragging rights with Aida scores, outside of that it does nothing.

$100 for 2x8 right now is just a seriously bad deal compared to prices on just about any 2x16 DDR4 or DDR5 kit.

Also as you do like overcloking and getting good freq / CL values on ram as do I, do show me a 2x16 b die kit that does 4900CL17.


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> I am yet to see a single b die kit on black friday or cyber monday sale.


That's because you actually buy e die and use a rambo knife to whittle it down to b die.


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> Also as you do like overcloking and getting good freq / CL values on ram as do I, do show me a 2x16 b die kit that does 4900CL17.


that is impressive, you are really getting 4900 CL17?? This must be cold weather benching? And what voltage?

EDIT: Screenshot?


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> that is impressive, you are really getting 4900 CL17?? This must be cold weather benching? And what voltage?
> 
> EDIT: Screenshot?


FFS I posted it in your Freq / CL thread and @'ed you ages ago, and have already extensively posted it in these threads sigh.

Or maybe that was 4800CL16.










1.6v vdimm, 1.4v SA, 1.4v VDDQ, 24/7 stable in the middle of the summer that just ended.

Reduced to 4800CL17 for long term as 1.4v SA can be risky on 12th / 13th gen.

Aaaannnnnnddddd:










^ Not 24/7 stable, Only 4700CL16 would be it seems.

Now show me a 2x16 Gb samsung B die kit doing this?

I was running my E dies at 4200CL16 3 years ago while most people were struggling to get past 3733CL14 on 2x16 Samsung B die lol. 

Best results around that time on this forum was like 4133CL17 and I think on 2x8 kits lol.

And yea I'll say it, for the PRICE, Samsung B die is trash ram.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> FFS I posted it in your Freq / CL thread and @'ed you ages ago, and have already extensively posted it in these threads sigh.
> 
> Or maybe that was 4800CL16.
> 
> 
> 1.6v vdimm, 1.4v SA, 1.4v VDDQ, 24/7 stable in the middle of the summer that just ended.
> 
> Reduced to 4800CL17 for long term as 1.4v SA can be risky on 12th / 13th gen.
> 
> Aaaannnnnnddddd:
> 
> ^ Not 24/7 stable, Only 4700CL16 would be it seems.
> 
> Now show me a 2x16 Gb samsung B die kit doing this?
> 
> I was running my E dies at 4200CL16 3 years ago while most people were struggling to get past 3733CL14 on 2x16 Samsung B die lol.
> 
> Best results around that time on this forum was like 4133CL17 and I think on 2x8 kits lol.
> 
> And yea I'll say it, for the PRICE, Samsung B die is trash ram.


B Die's strong suite has never been raw frequency. it's actually one of the weaker kits in that regard, I could only manage 3600 DR on my 8700K, where as my mate could stabilize 3866 on Dual Rank DJR. We had pretty much the same boards too Z370-F Strix vs Z370-A Prime.


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> B Die's strong suite has never been raw frequency. it's actually one of the weaker kits in that regard, I could only manage 3600 DR on my 8700K, where as my mate could stabilize 3866 on Dual Rank DJR. We had pretty much the same boards too Z370-F Strix vs Z370-A Prime.


Right now in the US you can get Crucial 3200 bare kits for $35 for 2x8, or $76 for 2x16

3200 Crucial ram is most likely micron E die, unless they have something else I haven't heard of.

I really wish someone would buy them and check for 4200CL16.

Newegg prices make me jealous.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> I wouldn't call that cheap when you can get 2x16 of anything else for less.
> 
> For 2x8 its expensive and only useful for running benchmarks.
> 
> Theres still no such thing as 'cheap' samsung B die when everything else costs so much less, pretty sure 2x16 M die is like what $10-20 more currently?


For many 2x8 is still sufficient unless you do professional work, stream etc. I have yet to run a game that uses over 12gb system ram. For ADL/RTL you usually get further on speed with SR anyways som DR will only be faster in a few games. I have seen som run 4300 G1 SR B-die on ADL. With DR that is a bit more difficult and 4000-4200 is probably tops. As for prices where I live D5 boards are usually 30usd more expensive vs D4, but if I where to buy RTL now I would offcourse go D5, my 12400F has a D4 B660 board atm so price of new board + ram is too much atm.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> For many 2x8 is still sufficient unless you do professional work, stream etc. I have yet to run a game that uses over 12gb system ram. For ADL/RTL you usually get further on speed with SR anyways som DR will only be faster in a few games. I have seen som run 4300 G1 SR B-die on ADL. With DR that is a bit more difficult and 4000-4200 is probably tops. As for prices where I live D5 boards are usually 30usd more expensive vs D4, but if I where to buy RTL now I would offcourse go D5, my 12400F has a D4 B660 board atm so price of new board + ram is too much atm.


My point is you will benefit more from 2x16 over 2x8 samsung B die in the majority of cases.

Faster ram / better timings is far less beneficial for gaming than 16 vs 32 Gb, a lot of games 0.1% and 1% lows will be significantly boosted when using 32 Gb far more than better timings / frequency on 2x8. Also the thing is you wont actually notice the minimum frame improvements unless you test for them.

Already several games that require over 16 Gb to run well as I already posted, wasting $100 on just 2x8 right now is a terrible mistake.

Whats the point getting 2x8 4133 B die for $100 when you will get better performance in more scenarios with 2x16 3200 for $70? Plus you can still overclock other 3200-3600 kits to close enough to a B die kit.


----------



## Taraquin

bhav said:


> My point is you will benefit more from 2x16 over 2x8 samsung B die in the majority of cases.
> 
> Faster ram / better timings is far less beneficial for gaming than 16 vs 32 Gb, a lot of games 0.1% and 1% lows will be significantly boosted when using 32 Gb far more than better timings / frequency on 2x8. Also the thing is you wont actually notice the minimum frame improvements unless you test for them.
> 
> Already several games that require over 16 Gb to run well as I already posted, wasting $100 on just 2x8 right now is a terrible mistake.
> 
> Whats the point getting 2x8 4133 B die for $100 when you will get better performance in more scenarios with 2x16 3200 for $70? Plus you can still overclock other 3200-3600 kits to close enough to a B die kit.


Where did you post about games running better 2x16 vs 2x8? I'm not advicing people in general to get 2x8, but I already have 2x8 so I keep it for while untill I notice lower performance.


----------



## bhav

Taraquin said:


> Where did you post about games running better 2x16 vs 2x8? I'm not advicing people in general to get 2x8, but I already have 2x8 so I keep it for while untill I notice lower performance.











*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


how is the motherboard setting the secondaries/tertiaries between the two? are they identical? You know what good point, pretty sure auto settings are giving me worse secondaries when setting it to 4,000. Will have to confirm.




www.overclock.net





Anno 1800 uses 28 Gb with all but one of the expansions installed. And its not merely 'cached' data, it stops late game CTDs, excessive lag, and allows seamless loading between maps - One game has several new world / old world / expansion maps with simultaneous play between each, clicking from one map to the other is instantaneous with no loading with 32 Gb, and with more expansions, more maps in each game, more than 28 Gb ram use to eliminate loading screens.

Upcoming game Star Citizen is 16 Gb minimum, currently 24 Gb when maxed.

Galciv 3 largest map requires 32 Gb.

And mods mods mods, lots of mods, all the mods will eat even more than 32 Gb in a lot of games.


----------



## Simkin

What does this mean? Cant remember seeing this on my 12900K, im now on 13900K new mobo and fresh Windows 11.

Anta absolute


----------



## RichKnecht

@Uncle Dubbs here is a Dragon Ball screenshot of my memory settings ( XMP values entered manually). Voltage is set to 1.35, VDDq @ 1.26 and SA set to 1.35 (auto) at G1


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

RichKnecht said:


> @Uncle Dubbs here is a Dragon Ball screenshot of my memory settings ( XMP values entered manually). Voltage is set to 1.35, VDDq @ 1.26 and SA set to 1.35 (auto) at G1
> View attachment 2586438


do you have a fan you can run on them? Because I would start by upping the vdimm to 1.5 or you can just start by tightening


----------



## RichKnecht

I think on X299 I was running them @ 3800 16 16 16 36 @ 1.45. If I up the voltage, do I up the frequency? I got it to boot at 3800 18 18 18 38 on the last bios at 1.45. Then I wimped out and reverted back to these settings. With X299 I followed a guide online that went into pretty good detail. Here is a screenshot from Aida when on X299


----------



## Necrodox

Can someone help me decide on DDR4 RAM? It seems I should be going for b-die chips, and then copy some overclocked profiles from this thread? I found a G.Skill TridentZ set that is 4000, with a cas latency of 18. I don't think it is b-die. The platform is Z690 with a 12700k. Thanks in advance.


----------



## RichKnecht

Doubt they are b-die with a CAS 0f 18. When you find something you like, just enter the part number in the box on this site:






B-Die Finder


Find Samsung B-Die DDR 4 memory kits on Amazon, Newegg and many more.




benzhaomin.github.io


----------



## Necrodox

RichKnecht said:


> Doubt they are b-die with a CAS 0f 18. When you find something you like, just enter the part number in the box on this site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B-Die Finder
> 
> 
> Find Samsung B-Die DDR 4 memory kits on Amazon, Newegg and many more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> benzhaomin.github.io


Will do, and will going for b-die essentially guarantee that I can improve its performance through some minor tweaks?


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

RichKnecht said:


> I think on X299 I was running them @ 3800 16 16 16 36 @ 1.45. If I up the voltage, do I up the frequency? I got it to boot at 3800 18 18 18 38 on the last bios at 1.45. Then I wimped out and reverted back to these settings. With X299 I followed a guide online that went into pretty good detail. Here is a screenshot from Aida when on X299
> 
> View attachment 2586464
> View attachment 2586465


so I keep forgetting your quad channel/4dimm dr...that will likely limit you but there can still be a lot of safe gains to be had...even with tighter secondaries and tertiaries. but yes, you want to up the frequency up...but voltage you probably cant go much higher than 1.45v if that without a fan on them. Its already booting 3600 flat 16s..so 3800 16s is better for sure if stable. you could try 4000 or 4133 at 1.5..or...that part youll have to play around with...basically my IMC is limiting me to 4133 at flat 15s and I cant do any higher stable...thats at 1.52...1.51 actual. 

In aida, you can just right click on the memory (top line) and run the memory benchmark only so it doesnt take as long. hell, you could try 4400/4300 at 17s...but youll want to test with Tm5 usmus first to see if it throws errors. An your on auto SA with 1.35 set right? thats what I do and it only uses 1.32/1.33 SA volts. 

We could tighten timings first though...because those will generally scale with your frequency increases...if its too tight they just wont work no matter what frequency. With memory oc'ing there will be tons or reboots, cmos clears, profile and USB restores...because if its off by 1 some things just don't boot.

try to copy mine or something like tertiaries first (advanced timings): 7/4/7/7 ; 7/4/7/7 ; 12/12/12/12 - these should be all doable

secondaries do similar to mine...twr may not go as low but tfaw and twr at 16 will be nice improvement...at 16 you can lower those rdrw (all four) to at least 12


----------



## Necrodox

RichKnecht said:


> Doubt they are b-die with a CAS 0f 18. When you find something you like, just enter the part number in the box on this site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B-Die Finder
> 
> 
> Find Samsung B-Die DDR 4 memory kits on Amazon, Newegg and many more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> benzhaomin.github.io


So I found a b-die set of G.Skill for $210, they're DDR4 3200 CL14-14-14-34. The other set I was considering are $140 and are: DDR4 4000 CL18-22-22-42. Is the performance differential between these two worth $70? Thanks in advance.


----------



## RichKnecht

Uncle Dubbs said:


> so I keep forgetting your quad channel/4dimm dr...that will likely limit you but there can still be a lot of safe gains to be had...even with tighter secondaries and tertiaries. but yes, you want to up the frequency up...but voltage you probably cant go much higher than 1.45v if that without a fan on them. Its already booting 3600 flat 16s..so 3800 16s is better for sure if stable. you could try 4000 or 4133 at 1.5..or...that part youll have to play around with...basically my IMC is limiting me to 4133 at flat 15s and I cant do any higher stable...thats at 1.52...1.51 actual.
> 
> In aida, you can just right click on the memory (top line) and run the memory benchmark only so it doesnt take as long. hell, you could try 4400/4300 at 17s...but youll want to test with Tm5 usmus first to see if it throws errors. An your on auto SA with 1.35 set right? thats what I do and it only uses 1.32/1.33 SA volts.
> 
> We could tighten timings first though...because those will generally scale with your frequency increases...if its too tight they just wont work no matter what frequency. With memory oc'ing there will be tons or reboots, cmos clears, profile and USB restores...because if its off by 1 some things just don't boot.
> 
> try to copy mine or something like tertiaries first (advanced timings): 7/4/7/7 ; 7/4/7/7 ; 12/12/12/12 - these should be all doable
> 
> secondaries do similar to mine...twr may not go as low but tfaw and twr at 16 will be nice improvement...at 16 you can lower those rdrw (all four) to at least 12
> 
> View attachment 2586466


OK, I'll give it a try. On X299, I really didn't notice a huge difference between 3600 and 3800. I just ran these through Aida and latency sux. I did have a fan on them with my X299 board as 2 of the DIMMs were jammed against the I/O shield area.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

RichKnecht said:


> OK, I'll give it a try. On X299, I really didn't notice a huge difference between 3600 and 3800. I just ran these through Aida and latency sux.


ya, you wont with 200mt/s (3800vs3600) but some of the other timings do help with latency and a lot with bandwidths. You don't game so i don't think latency is as important for you but I could be wrong/I dont edit/do photos etc. More bandwidth is good but has to be stable...so youll need to run 6 passes of Tm5 usmus config (itll ttake less than an hour...I usually only do 3 passes to start...

even a fan makes a huge difference...i just zip tied up a 120mm 2000rpm puppy and let it run at max , blowing/sitting right down on them


----------



## GeneO

Necrodox said:


> So I found a b-die set of G.Skill for $210, they're DDR4 3200 CL14-14-14-34. The other set I was considering are $140 and are: DDR4 4000 CL18-22-22-42. Is the performance differential between these two worth $70? Thanks in advance.


The latter are not b-die and will way underperform compared to the 3200/CL14 b-die (when clocked and tuned to 4000). I had my 3200/14 clocked to 4100 16-16-34 with tight timings.

There won't be much margin for overclocking the 4000/Cl18. They are probably sk-hynix c-die (cjr).

Get the b-die, that is a good price.


----------



## Necrodox

GeneO said:


> The latter are not b-die and will way underperform compared to the 3200/CL14 b-die (when clocked and tuned to 4000). I had my 3200/14 clocked to 4100 16-16-34 with tight timings.
> 
> There won't be much margin for overclocking the 4000/Cl18. They are probably sk-hynix c-die (cjr).
> 
> Get the b-die, that is a good price.


Sounds good, I'll pick up the b-die. Where can I get relevant settings for that particular set? 

Additionally, can you please educate me on why the B-Dies perform well and are sought after versus the worse set that I posted? What exactly is going on that warrants the improved performance? Thank you in advance, I appreciate all the information.


----------



## The Pook

Necrodox said:


> Sounds good, I'll pick up the b-die. Where can I get relevant settings for that particular set? Thanks in advance.


....this thread? go back a couple pages and look. people post their clocks with AsRock Timing configurator open (ala, here).

set your vDIMM to the max that you can keep cool (~<50c), set VCCIO/SA, set the XMP frequency/primary timings (but don't set XMP), reboot, and then enter in all the sub timings manually to whatever the board sets them to. take them off auto but don't change them (if on auto the board sets a timing to 8, manually set it to 8).

then increase frequency, test, repeat until not stable. then find someone running a similar speed to whatever you max out at and try their timings and test. set them in batches so you can tell which ones don't work.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Uncle Dubbs said:


> so I keep forgetting your quad channel/4dimm dr...that will likely limit you but there can still be a lot of safe gains to be had...even with tighter secondaries and tertiaries. but yes, you want to up the frequency up...but voltage you probably cant go much higher than 1.45v if that without a fan on them. Its already booting 3600 flat 16s..so 3800 16s is better for sure if stable. you could try 4000 or 4133 at 1.5..or...that part youll have to play around with...basically my IMC is limiting me to 4133 at flat 15s and I cant do any higher stable...thats at 1.52...1.51 actual.
> 
> In aida, you can just right click on the memory (top line) and run the memory benchmark only so it doesnt take as long. hell, you could try 4400/4300 at 17s...but youll want to test with Tm5 usmus first to see if it throws errors. An your on auto SA with 1.35 set right? thats what I do and it only uses 1.32/1.33 SA volts.
> 
> We could tighten timings first though...because those will generally scale with your frequency increases...if its too tight they just wont work no matter what frequency. With memory oc'ing there will be tons or reboots, cmos clears, profile and USB restores...because if its off by 1 some things just don't boot.
> 
> try to copy mine or something like tertiaries first (advanced timings): 7/4/7/7 ; 7/4/7/7 ; 12/12/12/12 - these should be all doable
> 
> secondaries do similar to mine...twr may not go as low but tfaw and twr at 16 will be nice improvement...at 16 you can lower those rdrw (all four) to at least 12


x299 like a hard limit wall is 4000. i havent seen too many ppl above 4000 with dr is even worst. Above 4000 is like 1% of all those cpus "stable 24/7 settings"


----------



## Nizzen

zGunBLADEz said:


> x299 like a hard limit wall is 4000. i havent seen too many ppl above 4000 with dr is even worst. Above 4000 is like 1% of all those cpus "stable 24/7 settings"


Atleast on mine 7980xe and x299 Apex 4000 is max, but it's possible to run c14. ~125GB/s and ~49ns.


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> Right now in the US you can get Crucial 3200 bare kits for $35 for 2x8, or $76 for 2x16


How well do these kits overclock?


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> My point is you will benefit more from 2x16 over 2x8 samsung B die in the majority of cases.


Very rarely, yes.


----------



## CptSpig

Nizzen said:


> Atleast on mine 7980xe and x299 Apex 4000 is max, but it's possible to run c14. ~125GB/s and ~49ns.


Same here I 4000 x 4 sticks on my apex 7980xe all day on my work machine.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> How well do these kits overclock?


If it is Micron E die, see second line of my sig.

My guess is the bare crucial 3200 is the same as Ballistix 3200 but without heatspreaders, as Micron E die is the only IC found up to now on 3200 Crucial kits. Pre E die only went up to 2666, post e die started at 3600 and was better (top line of my sig stuff is whats in 3600+ Crucial kits).

Crucial & 3200 should be guaranteed Micron E die.

But what I still find surprising is how little you know about this? I thought you knew more about ram than I did.


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> If it is Micron E die, see second line of my sig.
> 
> My guess is the bare crucial 3200 is the same as Ballistix 3200 but without heatspreaders, as Micron E die is the only IC found up to now on 3200 Crucial kits. Pre E die only went up to 2666, post e die started at 3600 and was better (top line of my sig stuff is whats in 3600+ Crucial kits).
> 
> Crucial & 3200 should be guaranteed Micron E die.
> 
> But what I still find surprising is how little you know about this? I thought you knew more about ram than I did.


I never professed to know everything there is to know about ram, *but apparently you do on a regular basis. *

Then again I do have this 12 year old phenom II rig that probably gives you a run for your money in terms of latency tuning, so I must know a little bit about this stuff, right? 

You do realize there are a number of times where members here have been in agreement with me and not you, right? We did get some good laughs from your posts. *You need to ask for some humility. *


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> I never professed to know everything there is to know about ram, *but apparently you do on a regular basis. *
> 
> Then again I do have this 12 year old phenom II rig that probably gives you a run for your money in terms of latency tuning, so I must know a little bit about this stuff, right?
> 
> You do realize there are a number of times where members here have been in agreement with me and not you, right? We did get some good laughs from your posts. *You need to ask for some humility. *
> 
> View attachment 2586643


Feel free to waste over $100 on a 2x8 kit this close to 2023 if you want. Enjoy your higher Aida scores while lagging and crashing to desktop in Anno 1800.

People can agree with you all they like, it doesn't change the fact that other people on the forums for several games are *FED UP *of being told that 16 Gb is enough for gaming as they listened to this, bought 16 Gb, then couldn't run the games they play and needed to upgrade to 32 Gb to fix their issues.

'16 Gb is enough for gaming' is 100% misinformation.

User experience with 16 Gb ram:

'8GB and no issues? Lucky you. I had 16GB until last August and I had to put all graphics on "low" to be able to play smoothly... Since I upgraded to 32GB I use "very high" and "ultra" settings without problems. '


----------



## storm-chaser

bhav said:


> Feel free to waste over $100 on a 2x8 kit this close to 2023 if you want. Enjoy your higher Aida scores while lagging and crashing to desktop in Anno 1800.
> 
> People can agree with you all they like, it doesn't change the fact that other people on the forums for several games are *FED UP *of being told that 16 Gb is enough for gaming as they listened to this, bought 16 Gb, then couldn't run the games they play and needed to upgrade to 32 Gb to fix their issues.
> 
> '16 Gb is enough for gaming' is 100% misinformation.


NOT saying I will never upgrade, only that you can still find cheap b die. But I personally run 64GB anyway....

I cant deny there are some performance benefits to gaming with 32GB, but the vast majority of gaming performance right now is sufficient at 16GB. I'll take Kingston's word over yours every day of the week. You know, the little company that makes memory.


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> NOT saying I will never upgrade, only that you can still find cheap b die.
> 
> I cant deny there are some performance benefits to gaming with 32GB, but the vast majority of gaming performance right now is sufficient at 16GB. I'll take Kingston's word over yours every day of the week. You know, the little company that makes memory.
> 
> View attachment 2586644


It says 'most games' not 'all games'.

That means this information is valid so long as 51% of all games are playable on 16 Gb.

Pretty bad information to go by tbh.

Also lol at only judging Ram capacity performance based on average FPS, and let me guess they tested at 1080p 

As for how much knowledge these companies have, I've spoken to Crucial support many times, they don't even know what Rank is and had no idea if any of their kits were SR or DR when I asked and escalated the enquiry.

^ More explanation on this, Crucial modules specify SR / DR on the code written on the *modules only!* There will be something like 2R8 for single rank, 2R16 for double rank. At one point they began mixing either 2R8 or 2R16 kits under the same product SKU and outer box, so purchasing the box you had no idea what you were getting.

Guess who managed to convince them to stop doing this with a load of crazy empty threats of legal action for false advertising? That was me. No one on their support team had any clue about any of this. No one on their tech team had realized they were actually doing this nor that the ranks were different until I told them.

Hmmm, I wonder, should I test how good Kingston's support is just for fun?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

You picking 1-2 games out of THE THOUSANDS... i do NOT touch any of those games with a 100foot pole btw.. I dislike that genre in general..

I also do emulation and i NEVER like NEVER required more than 16gb of ram.

Like i said been using 16gb since sandy bridge and only reason i run 32gb was for the benefit of DR on cpu bottleneck scenarios if that. Im always gpu bottlenecked. But the dual rank benefit is GONE now.

Most i seen is 12gb of ram use and i dont even have a page file on in most games lol. Theres a few exceptions that need it on no matter the ram size.


----------



## bhav

zGunBLADEz said:


> You picking 1-2 games out of THE THOUSANDS... i do NOT touch any of those games with a 100foot pole btw..
> 
> I also do emulation and i NEVER like NEVET required more than 16gb of ram.
> 
> Like i said been using 16gb since sandy bridge and only reason i run 32gb was for the benefit of DR on cpu bottleneck scenarios if that. Im always gpu bottlenecked.
> Most i seen is 12gb of ram use and i dont even have a page file on in most games lol. Theres a few exceptions that need it on no matter the ram size.


Thats fine but what happens when you do buy a game that needs 32 Gb? Or suddenly decide you want to install mods for a game you already play?

As I mentioned, there are plenty of people who listened to the advice that 16 Gb was enough, then ended up struggling to run the games they soon purchased.

Also why exactly do you avoid those games? Just don't like strategies or you think 'if it needs more than 16 Gb its a bad game?'

Funnily Anno 1800 min spec is like 2Gb vram / 8 Gb system ram, which might be enough for the base game, yet to be able to play any or all of the expansions, all the assets of each expansion need to be stored in the ram for it to even run. And this isn't due to 'poor coding' or such, its literally the only way to get all the content the game has seamlessly running together.

And thats just not this game, loads of games you likely already play would likely see an uplift of 20 FPS to the 0.1 / 1% lows by upgrading to 32 Gb. They still run on 16 Gb sure, but even 2x16 2666 XMP is outperforming your 2x8 samsung B die for minimum frames in plenty of titles. As soon as any of the data for the games you play need to go into shared system ram, your min FPS tanks.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Its not my type of game/genre. If i need 32gb type of scenario i get one of my kits out :/ i do have a FEW.


----------



## bhav

zGunBLADEz said:


> Its not my type of game/genre. If i need 32gb type of scenario i get one of my kits out :/ i do have a FEW.


Thats fine for you as you already have the kits.

Now what about all the new PC builders that come here and read ' Wow, 2x8 Samsung B die is the best', so decide to waste their money on it while playing such games that require more?

And yes I've seen it happen to many users on the forums for such games.


----------



## The Pook

why are we arguing about recommending imaginary people 16 vs 32 GB?


----------



## bhav

So still reading more and more about this, just 3 years ago, such advice was 'Why does anyone recommend 16 Gb ram? All games run on 8 Gb'.

Just 2 years ago it became 'Why 32 Gb, 16 Gb runs all games'.

Ignoring that 'all' is subjective to which games each user is running, and I already could fill up 32 Gb 5 years ago simply by installing mods.


----------



## storm-chaser

The Pook said:


> why are we arguing about recommending imaginary people 16 vs 32 GB?


I really have no idea. He keeps bringing it back up.


----------



## SoloCamo

bhav said:


> It says 'most games' not 'all games'.
> 
> That means this information is valid so long as 51% of all games are playable on 16 Gb.
> 
> Pretty bad information to go by tbh.
> 
> Also lol at only judging Ram capacity performance based on average FPS, and let me guess they tested at 1080p


Let's be real here, even in 2022 16gb is still fine for 90% of games that people actually play. There are always outliers and always will be. I moved to 16gb in what, 2012? I then moved to 32gb of ddr3 cl10 2400mhz in late 2020 before moving to my 10th gen i9 platform shortly thereafter, also with 32gb of cheap ram which I have ended up replacing with B-Die as I've left performance on the table and have found even my 10900 to be a bottleneck in some areas for my 6900XT.

I don't think in all the games I've ever played in all these years outside of CoD Warzone (ironically enough) where it went over 14gb of memory used and that's at 4k max settings.

For the majority of people & majority of games, a faster 16gb kit is better - especially if you want to talk about improving min fps. 

If you want to build for the long term and are considering B-die either way at all, just go for the 32gb kit of. In the grand scheme of the entire build it's a waste not too if you play anything cpu bound. I ended up spending more money in the end by going with a cheaper 32gb kit up front.


----------



## SoloCamo

Welp I think either my 10900's IMC is crap or I just got a really bad kit.

PC will not even boot with either XMP profile (4000 16-16-16-36 2T 1.4v). Bumped up voltage all the way up to 1.5v and it still won't. I can get up to 3733mhz with those timings and with dram at 1.49v.

Bumped VCCSA/VCCIO to 1.26/1.21V and tried 3866 and now it's a hard reboot where I'm going to have to pull the cmos battery. Apparently I overlooked the simple fact that a clear cmos button is NOT on my Asus TUF z590 board and they put the battery under the gpu where now I've got to yank that out to access it, too. Whoever designed that needs a punch in the face.

Any suggestions? Even at 3600 with the 4000 xmp timings the kit is performing better then what I had, but this is pretty disappointing to be honest.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Welp I think either my 10900's IMC is crap or I just got a really bad kit.
> 
> PC will not even boot with either XMP profile (4000 16-16-16-36 2T 1.4v). Bumped up voltage all the way up to 1.5v and it still won't. I can get up to 3733mhz with those timings and with dram at 1.49v.
> 
> Bumped VCCSA/VCCIO to 1.26/1.21V and tried 3866 and now it's a hard reboot where I'm going to have to pull the cmos battery. Apparently I overlooked the simple fact that a clear cmos button is NOT on my Asus TUF z590 board and they put the battery under the gpu where now I've got to yank that out to access it, too. Whoever designed that needs a punch in the face.
> 
> Any suggestions? Even at 3600 with the 4000 xmp timings the kit is performing better then what I had, but this is pretty disappointing to be honest.


does the board have clear CMOS pins or just a battery? if it's got pins but they're hard to reach, put one of these on the clear pins 🙃

VCCIO/SA can go higher. set both to 1.35v and lower it later.

going off memory but are these set:

Disabled: MRC Fastboot, Margin Check Limit, Delay after Train, Turn Around Timing Training, Memory Test
Enabled: SPD Write Disable, MCH Full Check, Trace Centering

if you take "Mem Over Clock Fail Count" off auto and set it to something like 2-4 it _should_ automagically return to defaults on a failed OC though. I had it set to 2 when I was RAM OCing and it worked fine for me but it doesn't really work if you go too overboard.

you could also downgrade your 6800 XT to something smaller so you have access


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> does the board have clear CMOS pins or just a battery? if it's got pins but they're hard to reach, put one of these on the clear pins 🙃
> 
> VCCIO/SA can go higher. set both to 1.35v and lower it later.
> 
> going off memory but are these set:
> 
> Disabled: MRC Fastboot, Margin Check Limit, Delay after Train, Turn Around Timing Training, Memory Test
> Enabled: SPD Write Disable, MCH Full Check, Trace Centering
> 
> if you take "Mem Over Clock Fail Count" off auto and set it to something like 2-4 it _should_ automagically return to defaults on a failed OC though. I had it set to 2 when I was RAM OCing and it worked fine for me but it doesn't really work if you go too overboard.
> 
> you could also downgrade your 6800 XT to something smaller so you have access


Thanks as always. Just getting back from the joy of holiday shopping (sigh) and will mess with it more. I do happen to have that exact cable and I forget the board did have clear cmos pins so I'll hook it up. I also set the fail count to 2 so that should save me a bit of time as well.

Before I left though I did confirm that the below are disabled:

MRC Fastboot, Me,pry Test, Delay After train (the other disabled options may be called something else on my board?)

Enabled - SPD Write Disable - and like above the other two options were either missing or labelled differently.

That being said, I did an extremely quick and dirty tightening of the primaries to 14-14-14-32 w/ 3600mhz 1.45v and it seemed to take without a hitch, obviously stability testing will need to be done but the benches I did run showed consistent improvements and perfect stability. 

At those timings it's easily outperforming my 4000 cl18-22-22-42 SR kit so far. If I can keep timings tight like this and atl east manage 3733 I'd be happy despite my desire to have the nice sounding number of 4000 memory. Just feels better after running a 2400mhz kit of DDR3 near a decade.


----------



## The Pook

auto subtimings? I'd imagine the board is just being weird at setting them unless your IMC is abnormally awful. I haven't played with a locked 10th gen but they shouldn't be _that_ inferior.

if you just want somewhere to start you can copy mine. Ignore RTL/IO-L and just set the rest, if it works then set them after.


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> auto subtimings? I'd imagine the board is just being weird at setting them unless your IMC is abnormally awful. I haven't played with a locked 10th gen but they shouldn't be _that_ inferior.
> 
> if you just want somewhere to start you can copy mine. Ignore RTL/IO-L and just set the rest, if it works then set them after.
> 
> View attachment 2586741


Trying this momentarily. There is also a BIOS update I'm due for though I'm always hesitant when all they say is "Improve system’s compatibility."


----------



## SoloCamo

BIOS updated and also tried matching your settings. Won't even post just like XMP. Well I guess the silicone lottery is not in my favor here. Guess I'll focus on getting the timings down at 3600-3733 where it seems to be happy so far.

Edit - So far so good here with obvious room for improvement. Every bench / game is showing consistent gains with each change. Going to do a memtest run overnight to see a baseline of stability.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

SoloCamo said:


> Welp I think either my 10900's IMC is crap or I just got a really bad kit.
> 
> PC will not even boot with either XMP profile (4000 16-16-16-36 2T 1.4v). Bumped up voltage all the way up to 1.5v and it still won't. I can get up to 3733mhz with those timings and with dram at 1.49v.
> 
> Bumped VCCSA/VCCIO to 1.26/1.21V and tried 3866 and now it's a hard reboot where I'm going to have to pull the cmos battery. Apparently I overlooked the simple fact that a clear cmos button is NOT on my Asus TUF z590 board and they put the battery under the gpu where now I've got to yank that out to access it, too. Whoever designed that needs a punch in the face.
> 
> Any suggestions? Even at 3600 with the 4000 xmp timings the kit is performing better then what I had, but this is pretty disappointing to be honest.



use 1.5mV on the ram just for rule out voltages then drop it down if it works i think around 1.45mV should be cool..
try loosing the 16/x/16 BY 2 "16/18/16" and start from there (i always find that one is the hardest to get stable on b-die) you already have cmt @ 2 so thats okidoki raise SA/IO 1.35mV then if it works start lowering from there..

^^
in your new 14s try lowering that trfc 340-360 as starters should do 300-320


----------



## zGunBLADEz

btw check auto rtls if they are way too high at the highest "stable one you already have" like almost 80s (75s+) or over 80s then is very likely your mobo/imc probably is done for with them sticks..

you can also raise that trefi just spam 9999999999 it will put the max right number


----------



## SoloCamo

zGunBLADEz said:


> use 1.5mV on the ram just for rule out voltages then drop it down if it works i think around 1.45mV should be cool..
> try loosing the 16/x/16 BY 2 "16/18/16" and start from there (i always find that one is the hardest to get stable on b-die) you already have cmt @ 2 so thats okidoki raise SA/IO 1.35mV then if it works start lowering from there..
> 
> ^^
> in your new 14s try lowering that trfc 340-360 as starters should do 300-320


1.5 was a no go, and even slightly looser wouldn't allow it. Already tried 1.35 SA/IO as well to no avail. 

Did lower my trfc to 350 without issue so fa.




zGunBLADEz said:


> btw check auto rtls if they are way too high at the highest "stable one you already have" l*ike almost 80s (75s+) or over 80s then is very likely your mobo/imc probably is done for with them sticks..*
> 
> you can also raise that trefi just spam 9999999999 it will put the max right number


Not sure what you mean by the bolded part? As in my IMC is weak or that there is an issue?

Side note, after a bit of gaming that stresses my cpu and gpu to near 100% at all times temps just touched 50*c on my the warmer of the two sticks. IIRC under 60 is still fine, correct?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

When im trying to boot a new speed on auto for example the mobo will choose the rtls "round trip* would try to lower it down but if still high on auto that tells me im close to max limits .

50 is fine put a fan on it. After the stress test you can permanently remove it..


----------



## SoloCamo

zGunBLADEz said:


> When im trying to boot a new speed on auto for example the mobo will choose the rtls "round trip* would try to lower it down but if still high on auto that tells me im close to max limits .
> 
> 50 is fine put a fan on it. After the stress test you can permanently remove it..



Thanks, going to make some more adjustments. So far with the screenshot I posted above I passed memtest running overnight and put some time into with BF2042. That's the game I was referring to above where the mem is hitting 50c at peak after about 30 minutes of gameplay and my 6900XT dumping heat into the case. 

Trying to figure out the logistics of somehow getting a fan over the memory. Perhaps I'll increase the fan speed on my NH-D15 to help pull some heat away from them.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Trying to figure out the logistics of somehow getting a fan over the memory. Perhaps I'll increase the fan speed on my NH-D15 to help pull some heat away from them.


I use this: 









DimasTechÂ® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095) - Newegg.com


Buy DimasTechÂ® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com










DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0


DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0




shopeu.dimastech.com





before that I just used speaker wire. find a hole at the top of your case, stick the speaker wire through, tie a knot, and then do the same to the fan on the other end 🙃


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> I use this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DimasTechÂ® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095) - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy DimasTechÂ® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0
> 
> 
> DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shopeu.dimastech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> before that I just used speaker wire. find a hole at the top of your case, stick the speaker wire through, tie a knot, and then do the same to the fan on the other end 🙃


Thank's for the idea. Going to take a bit on shipping so I'll see what I can rig up and if that doesn't work I'll have to order it. I've got four open 5.25" bays (yea, my Thor V2 case is old but airflow is great) so I'm thinking about mounting a 120 or 140 in there and aiming it towards the ram.

In the meantime, it's hovering at or below 50 on the games I'm playing so I think I'm still in the safe zone. Also currently dumping 1.48v thru the ram so I may be able to bring that down a hair.

Aida is consistently at 56,xxx / 56,xxx / 55,xxx / high 44ns to low 45ns

Not the numbers I was aiming for but when it comes to actual game & benchmark gains it reflects. SoTR went from 183fps avg with 3600 cl18 (sr stock xmp), then 198avg at 4000 cl18 on that same kit. Now with my current b-die kit & setting it's 216fps average. This is exactly what I'm looking for as I want to give whatever edge I can to this cpu to maintain lows above 60fps. That and the fact that I keep toying around with the idea of pairing this cpu with atleast a 4080 performance level card like a fool.


----------



## Thrakis

Could You guys post Your good and stable timings + voltages for Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 32GB (2x16GB) chips?
Thanks in advance


----------



## Taraquin

So I got a cheap used 2x8 3200c14 FlareX for my sons 12400F. I previously had 2x8 3000c15 Ballistix with rev E. Did a quick comparison at 3700 G1. Only timings I changed was 
Rev E: 15 19 19 34 RFC 544 1.44v
B-die: 14 14 14 27 RFC 248 1.47v

In aida latency dropped from 53.6 to 49.9
In SOTTR CPU game avg/min improved from 235/188 to 247/199fps so 5/6% improvement, okay for 80usd B-die vs 40usd I get for his rev E.

I was surprised 3700 G1 still worked at the locked 0.95v SA, but I guess he is lucky 

Ram went through 10 rounds W/O errors in TM5, but when temps climed to 40C the errors begins to occur, need more cooling it seems, luckily they stayvat 30-32C during gaming in a 23C room so no issues there


----------



## storm-chaser

@bhav 

What do you think of this kit?

Amazon.com: TEAMGROUP T-Force Night Hawk RGB 3600MHz 16GB Kit (2x8GB) CL18 DDR4 SDRAM (PC4-28800) Desktop Memory Module Ram TF15D416G3600HC18JDC01 - White : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry


----------



## Taraquin

storm-chaser said:


> @bhav
> 
> What do you think of this kit?
> 
> Amazon.com: TEAMGROUP T-Force Night Hawk RGB 3600MHz 16GB Kit (2x8GB) CL18 DDR4 SDRAM (PC4-28800) Desktop Memory Module Ram TF15D416G3600HC18JDC01 - White : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry
> 
> View attachment 2586911


Not to steal his answear but they can be anything from Samsung D-die (bad), to Micron rev E or Hynix C/D. The latter 3 are good. Beautiful astetics though!


----------



## imrevoau

Taraquin said:


> Not to steal his answear but they can be anything from Samsung D-die (bad), to Micron rev E or Hynix C/D. The latter 3 are good. Beautiful astetics though!


If it's 18-22-22-42 I am about 95% certain it's C Die.


----------



## Necrodox

The Pook said:


> ....this thread? go back a couple pages and look. people post their clocks with AsRock Timing configurator open (ala, here).
> 
> set your vDIMM to the max that you can keep cool (~<50c), set VCCIO/SA, set the XMP frequency/primary timings (but don't set XMP), reboot, and then enter in all the sub timings manually to whatever the board sets them to. take them off auto but don't change them (if on auto the board sets a timing to 8, manually set it to 8).
> 
> then increase frequency, test, repeat until not stable. then find someone running a similar speed to whatever you max out at and try their timings and test. set them in batches so you can tell which ones don't work.


Understood, I'll do exactly that. With regards to the b-die question I had, is there any chance you could explain why b-die is the way to go? Are they simply higher binned chips that perform better than the competition?


----------



## bhav

storm-chaser said:


> @bhav
> 
> What do you think of this kit?
> 
> Amazon.com: TEAMGROUP T-Force Night Hawk RGB 3600MHz 16GB Kit (2x8GB) CL18 DDR4 SDRAM (PC4-28800) Desktop Memory Module Ram TF15D416G3600HC18JDC01 - White : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry
> 
> View attachment 2586911


3600 18-22-22 is random dies, could be Samsung A or D die, Hynix CJR, or a bunch of never heard of Chinese dies.

Corsair Vengeance 3200CL16 and 3600CL18 have reportedly been found to use around 20 different dies from info provided from the people buying them, these won't be any different.

Some of them might be B die, but the chance is very low.

You can guarantee 4200CL16-CL17 in that price range with Kingston Renegade.


----------



## Uncle Dubbs

Thrakis said:


> Could You guys post Your good and stable timings + voltages for Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 32GB (2x16GB) chips?
> Thanks in advance


If you’re looking for z390 etc just search this thread…someone may post, but there is a lot here…because no one is getting 4400 gear 1 since 10th Gen. most of us are topping out at 4000-4300 at the top end. Latency in the sub 40-45ns range with better bandwidth. A lot of people have moved on to ddr5.


----------



## bhav

@storm-chaser 

Have you considered why Samsung B die kits are still widely available and as it turns out they arent the most expensive DDR4 ....

My current kit, ballistix max 2x16 still selling for £180+ winning bids on ebay, starting price non bids still being listed around £250-300. When it was full price it was the most expensive kit on the market as well.

When it went on sale, it was a global sell out in a week or two.

You would think people are just buying it for the XMP right? Well the 2x8 Gb never sold and still no one wants them.

So why is this? Even on Reddit there was thread after thread listing the sale and even new PC builders were realising it is 2x16 SR.

So as it turns out, if we look at market pricing and demand, and even with what these sticks can pull off with 4x16 64 Gb, the top DDR4 on the market is Micron B die 2x16, not Samsung B die.


----------



## SoloCamo

This is really, really silly and I'm sounding like a complete fool here but I swear my windows environment feels snappier after this upgrade + tune on the memory. Perhaps my cl18 4000 setup wasn't quite as stable as I had thought despite testing? Likely placebo of course but it seems to respond better even browsing the net with a 4k/60fps youtube video running. I would hardly have called it slow prior so it's probably purchase justification.


----------



## RackarN

Thrakis said:


> Could You guys post Your good and stable timings + voltages for Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 32GB (2x16GB) chips?
> Thanks in advance


I have gear 2, T1 , 4800mhz if u wanna try that. My ram is water-cooled tho. But it ran fine without the waterblock aswell. Didn't like it being 50c so i slapped my block on it instead.


----------



## storm-chaser

SoloCamo said:


> This is really, really silly and I'm sounding like a complete fool here but I swear my windows environment feels snappier after this upgrade + tune on the memory. Perhaps my cl18 4000 setup wasn't quite as stable as I had thought despite testing? Likely placebo of course but it seems to respond better even browsing the net with a 4k/60fps youtube video running. I would hardly have called it slow prior so it's probably purchase justification.


The gains are probably real, bro.

Depending on where you started with your timings and mem speed, tuning it can most definitely result in a noticeable difference in performance, especially if its more snappy, that's a good indicator. Check your latency before and after?


----------



## Ichirou

Uncle Dubbs said:


> If you’re looking for z390 etc just search this thread…someone may post, but there is a lot here…because no one is getting 4400 gear 1 since 10th Gen. most of us are topping out at 4000-4300 at the top end. Latency in the sub 40-45ns range with better bandwidth. A lot of people have moved on to ddr5.


4,400 MHz Gear 1 stable is possible... with a diamond tier IMC. But that's rare, so not really something most people could achieve.


----------



## Thrakis

RackarN said:


> I have gear 2, T1 , 4800mhz if u wanna try that. My ram is water-cooled tho. But it ran fine without the waterblock aswell. Didn't like it being 50c so i slapped my block on it instead.


Wouldn't mind  thanks in advance.


----------



## Pk1

After all the discussion about 16gb vs 32gb...I've decided to use 24gb in my new system. Seems like the "sweet spot". Lol.


----------



## SoloCamo

storm-chaser said:


> The gains are probably real, bro.
> 
> Depending on where you started with your timings and mem speed, tuning it can most definitely result in a noticeable difference in performance, especially if its more snappy, that's a good indicator. Check your latency before and after?


Here's where I'm at now with my current 2x 16gb dual rank 3733 14-14-14-32 2T w/ 350 TRFC. Tried to bring CL down to 13 to see if it'd post but it hated it. Then again, I'm at 1.48v now so maybe a bump will solve it. Goal is stability though so I probably shouldn't push my luck.










The best runs I saw on my old sticks were 52,9xx / 55.5xx / 48,2xx / 49.1ns

That 48,2xx copy was above average though by far usually it was around 46,xxx. Any reason the copy would be so much lower in that case? This was on my old single rank 2x 16gb at 4000 18-22-22-42 2T w/ 900 TRFC (yes, that TRFC was the lowest it'd run).

Side note, ramped my case fans up a bit which includes the 230mm exhaust fan above the ram and temps are now holding below 50. That being said, I've ordered a fan to aim specifically at the memory as I don't like running my case fans rpm's up due to noise.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Uncle Dubbs said:


> If you’re looking for z390 etc just search this thread…someone may post, but there is a lot here…because no one is getting 4400 gear 1 since 10th Gen. most of us are topping out at 4000-4300 at the top end. Latency in the sub 40-45ns range with better bandwidth. A lot of people have moved on to ddr5.


 Only reason to be honest is for a cheap build.. For half the price equal perf in games..

13600k $299
Itx board $150
Ram i didnt need it, but bought a 2x8gb 5033 kit from teamxtreem for $85 which went nicely


----------



## bhav

So I've spent ages trying, nothing seems to work to stabilize 5066CL18 or 5200CL19 on the new board. The MSI board trains and boots these settings very quickly, but they won't stabilize. The board seems capable, the ram isn't.

5066CL19 and 5200CL20 would work, but those are atrocious CL for the clocks, instead I have it running at 5000CL18 over my previous daily of 4800CL17, which is underwhelming and didn't meet my expectations.

Once I have the 13900KS it will be set in G1 frequencies anyway.

5000 18-24-24-56 is working, but not worth bothering to post screenies, and I havent tuned thetras / trfc / trefi yet, not going to bother anymore with G2 and will start with binning 13th gens starting with the 13600KF tomorrow, but hopefully the first one will do 4133G1.

Edit - no longer getting a 13900KS due to the recent leaks on its specs and raptor lake S.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> So I've spent ages trying, nothing seems to work to stabilize 5066CL18 or 5200CL19 on the new board. The MSI board trains and boots these settings very quickly, but they won't stabilize. The board seems capable, the ram isn't.
> 
> 5066CL19 and 5200CL20 would work, but those are atrocious CL for the clocks, instead I have it running at 5000CL18 over my previous daily of 4800CL17, which is underwhelming and didn't meet my expectations.
> 
> Once I have the 13900KS it will be set in G1 frequencies anyway.
> 
> 5000 18-24-24-56 is working, but not worth bothering to post screenies, and I havent tuned thetras / trfc / trefi yet, not going to bother anymore with G2 and will start with binning 13th gens starting with the 13600KF tomorrow, but hopefully the first one will do 4133G1.


The i5s seem to have the largest range of IMC from what I've seen, so hopefully yours lands on the upper spectrum.


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> The i5s seem to have the largest range of IMC from what I've seen, so hopefully yours lands on the upper spectrum.


Will be happy with just 4133, hopefully 4200 in case I manage to stabilize 4200CL14, but I don't think my kit will.

I'll go ahead and try to retest 4200CL14 G2 now with the new board, but doubt it will work.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

On them speeds more sa doesn't help try something lower like under 1.10mV


----------



## bhav

Thought I was getting lucky, passed 10 mins, errored at 12.

So even with the new board, 4200CL14 is a no go, I was trying 1.65v vdimm, 1.5v vddq and 1.35v SA, didn't actually change the voltages or secondaries from my 5000 G2 stable settings.

Which is fine as it means I only need a 4133 G1 capable IMC.

... 5000CL17 booted with 1.7v, testing now.


----------



## RackarN

Seems to be locked here after the bios update 🤦🏼‍♂️ no more 5000mhz, oh well..


----------



## yzonker

bhav said:


> Thought I was getting lucky, passed 10 mins, errored at 12.
> 
> So even with the new board, 4200CL14 is a no go, I was trying 1.65v vdimm, 1.5v vddq and 1.35v SA, didn't actually change the voltages or secondaries from my 5000 G2 stable settings.
> 
> Which is fine as it means I only need a 4133 G1 capable IMC.
> 
> ... 5000CL17 booted with 1.7v, testing now.


Have you run your configs for the TimeSpy CPU test? It's very memory dependent and I'm curious whether a G1 or G2 config would score higher?


----------



## bhav

yzonker said:


> Have you run your configs for the TimeSpy CPU test? It's very memory dependent and I'm curious whether a G1 or G2 config would score higher?


Didn't know about that, will look into it after the new chip arrives.


----------



## SoloCamo

Question all, if I start dabbling with my cache clocks is that going to potentially cause stability issues of my ram oc? Also, from my understanding improving cache clocks speed will reduce memory latency decently as well? Working with a locked processor but trying to get the most out of it with mem improvements.

Right now I'm at the stock 4.3ghz cache clocks and from my understanding it's ideal to match it to your core clock if possible. Any modern title locks me to 4.6ghz so I was going to put cache at 4.6 as well.


----------



## The Pook

SoloCamo said:


> Question all, if I start dabbling with my cache clocks is that going to potentially cause stability issues of my ram oc?


you can be unstable from having cache too high but it shouldn't have any effect on your RAM OC. 

ideally cache and core speed would be 1:1 but you're almost certainly not going to be stable.


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> you can be unstable from having cache too high but it shouldn't have any effect on your RAM OC.
> 
> ideally cache and core speed would be 1:1 but you're almost certainly not going to be stable.


Thanks. Seems most people go 4.7-4.8 on cache, going to try 1:1 with my all core clock of 4.6 as I'd imagine 4.6ghz isn't unrealistic?


----------



## The Pook

just try it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

cache runs off vcore, so if you're only at x46 core I'd imagine you'd run out of steam (voltage steam?) to run cache at x46 unless you give it more vcore.


----------



## SoloCamo

The Pook said:


> just try it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> cache runs off vcore, so if you're only at x46 core I'd imagine you'd run out of steam (voltage steam?) to run cache at x46 unless you give it more vcore.


Will do when I get home. Feel like a noob here considering I really haven't touched memory oc'ing let alone cpu oc'ing properly in a decade. Always was more of a GPU oc guy.


----------



## The Pook

playing with BCLK 🙃










103 BCLK, CPU @ x50, RAM @ x42, Cache x45

voltage is just on auto with an offset and it's a bit too high, and I dropped cache a bit too low (wanted x46), but if it passes an hour I'll fix and run longer.


----------



## bhav

The Pook said:


> playing with BCLK 🙃
> 
> View attachment 2588023
> 
> 
> 103 BCLK, CPU @ x50, RAM @ x42, Cache x45
> 
> voltage is just on auto with an offset and it's a bit too high, and I dropped cache a bit too low (wanted x46), but if it passes an hour I'll fix and run longer.


All those numbers are too low for a 10900K!

Pump that up to 4400!!!!

Or does 4400 not work for your ram? Poor ram

For 10900K people have gotten 4400 on samsung B die, me 4533CL15 Micron B die, but they need to run in 2T.

And actually I forgot about the command rate, 12th / 13th gen good IMCs run 1T at both G1 and G2 speeds, 10900K couldn't run 1T at high speeds.


----------



## Thrakis

Is there any DDR4 32GB 2x16GB single rank b-die available on the market?


----------



## bhav

Thrakis said:


> Is there any DDR4 32GB 2x16GB single rank b-die available on the market?


Samsung B die 16 Gb modules are DR only.

Micron B die are the only 16Gb SR DDR4, but performance wise second best to Samsung B die.

Unfortunately they are discontinued, although I just sent a message to crucial support asking why and if its possible to get anymore of them.


----------



## Ichirou

bhav said:


> Samsung B die 16 Gb modules are DR only.
> 
> Micron B die are the only 16Gb SR DDR4, but performance wise second best to Samsung B die.
> 
> Unfortunately they are discontinued, although I just sent a message to crucial support asking why and if its possible to get anymore of them.


Corsair reproduced their Vengeance LPX kits with 16 GB Micron B-die. You're good. Just buy those.
They probably had some extra Micron B-die lying around.

Even with the cheapest 2x16 GB, Newegg reviews confirm that it is Micron B-die.


----------



## bhav

Ichirou said:


> Corsair reproduced their Vengeance LPX kits with 16 GB Micron B-die. You're good. Just buy those.
> They probably had some extra Micron B-die lying around.
> 
> Even with the cheapest 2x16 GB, Newegg reviews confirm that it is Micron B-die.


I want matching looking ones though bah and yuk corsair.


----------



## Ichirou

bhav said:


> I want matching looking ones though bah and yuk corsair.


Replace the heatspreaders. Problem solved.


----------



## bhav

Nicer fan, can actually feel it pushing air fan, and can see the shiny ram through the fan fan:










But screw holes not for fan screws fan, only for screws pushing through to a radiator fan, needed cable ties for the grommets fan, the screw grommets nicely wedge on the stand grommets fan.

Ooof, 37.5c on the hotter module after 20 mins OCCT now compared to 41-43c with the previous trash fan, and also after extended use it was going up to 48c which is why I needed a better ram fan.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> Nicer fan, can actually feel it pushing air fan, and can see the shiny ram through the fan fan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But screw holes not for fan screws fan, only for screws pushing through to a radiator fan, needed cable ties for the grommets fan, the screw grommets nicely wedge on the stand grommets fan.
> 
> Ooof, 37.5c on the hotter module after 20 mins OCCT now compared to 41-43c with the previous trash fan, and also after extended use it was going up to 48c which is why I needed a better ram fan.


OCCT 🤣


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> OCCT 🤣


I have testmem5, but I'm using both, sue me.

So I don't get this, 4300 14-20-20-42 is completely fine!

Touch the trfc or trefi and no longer fine gahhh!

Hopefully better fan will help.

38c when the previous fan would have reached 43c, so hopefully 43c at the point it got to 48 before.

Stupid ram not even running hot and still spits out errors.


----------



## imrevoau

bhav said:


> I have testmem5, but I'm using both, sue me.
> 
> So I don't get this, 4300 14-20-20-42 is completely fine!
> 
> Touch the trfc or trefi and no longer fine gahhh!
> 
> Hopefully better fan will help.
> 
> 38c when the previous fan would have reached 43c, so hopefully 43c at the point it got to 48 before.
> 
> Stupid ram not even running hot and still spits out errors.


My Samsung B Die doesn't error until around 51c, but I'm "only" running 1.53 VDIMM.


----------



## bhav

imrevoau said:


> My Samsung B Die doesn't error until around 51c, but I'm "only" running 1.53 VDIMM.


Yea trying for this micron at 1.72v, the temps look fine but it doesn't seem to like even running in the 50s.


----------



## Thrakis

imrevoau said:


> My Samsung B Die doesn't error until around 51c, but I'm "only" running 1.53 VDIMM.


That's not what I experienced. 
Have 2x8GB g.skill SR chips on water cooling, running 4200CL14 @1,6V.
I run TM5 absolut without errors with temp below 33*C.
Once I turn off cooling and temps go above 37-38*C errors pop up very quickly.
Observed same behavior many times.


----------



## bhav

Passed 2 hours of OCCT and 50 mins of Testmem so far with 4300 14-20-20-42, auto everything else such a waste of time.

So the Trefi and trfc are proving very difficult at 4300 G1, just needed to rule everything else out.

Waiting to complete 6 cycles of 1usmus.

Also the dimm temps after 50 mins of TM5 with the new fan? 33 and 34c.

Occt heats them up a lot more so thats the only reason I'm still using it.

When you actually put a proper fan from an AIO on the ram at 1.72v:










2 hours OCCT and 6 loops 1usmus passed:










All that just to rule the primaries out ffs. Lets try trefi only this time.


----------



## RackarN

fk! had a single error 0 after 1 hr TM5, Anta extreme.  seems to give more errors if i go above 1.6v (ballistix 4400mhz) max temp is 36 after hours testing with a waterblock. Stock was around 55c.

Dropped volt to 1.54 and rttPark 0 (from 80, stock auto), seems ok now 🤔

edit again:
So my micron seems to want RTT 80/48/0, if not set it will give random errors. 12 cycle TM5 1usmus_v3 now.


----------



## RackarN

bhav said:


> Passed 2 hours of OCCT and 50 mins of Testmem so far with 4300 14-20-20-42, auto everything else such a waste of time.
> 
> So the Trefi and trfc are proving very difficult at 4300 G1, just needed to rule everything else out.
> 
> Waiting to complete 6 cycles of 1usmus.
> 
> Also the dimm temps after 50 mins of TM5 with the new fan? 33 and 34c.
> 
> Occt heats them up a lot more so thats the only reason I'm still using it.
> 
> When you actually put a proper fan from an AIO on the ram at 1.72v:
> 
> 
> 
> 2 hours OCCT and 6 loops 1usmus passed:
> 
> 
> 
> All that just to rule the primaries out ffs. Lets try trefi only this time.



did u run TM5 as admin? goes way faster if you do! 6 rounds is around 13 min

(nevermind... saw u have 32gb lol )


----------



## bhav

RackarN said:


> did u run TM5 as admin? goes way faster if you do! 6 rounds is around 13 min
> 
> (nevermind... saw u have 32gb lol )


Yea 2x16 here, so I guess you're using 2x8 Ballistix Max? would explain your better primaries at 4800, mine needs 17-22-22-48 at 4800, also the XMP 19-19-19 doesn't work, only 19-20-20.

Also couldn't get 19-19 middle timings at 4300 with 1.37v SA.

Did you try lower trfc though? I was able to get down to 655 at 4800.


----------



## RackarN

bhav said:


> Yea 2x16 here, so I guess you're using 2x8 Ballistix Max? would explain your better primaries at 4800, mine needs 17-22-22-48 at 4800, also the XMP 19-19-19 doesn't work, only 19-20-20.
> 
> Also couldn't get 19-19 middle timings at 4300 with 1.37v SA.
> 
> Did you try lower trfc though? I was able to get down to 655 at 4800.


yeah that would explain it!
thats my next step  700 was fine, cant remember what i used on my ryzen system but atleast 680 is posible.
TRCD 21 is as low as it will go now.
TRP 21 is as low as it will go now.
TRAS might be able to do 42 with luck, 40 was BSOD on boot.
and then i'll find TRFC.

was able to boot 5000 but it needed like 19/24/24 so i wasnt even gonna bother.

680 seems to be the wall. 670 BSOD as soon as i fired up TM5


----------



## bhav

RackarN said:


> was able to boot 5000 but it needed like 19/24/24 so i wasnt even gonna bother


'Just' needs 1.72v for 5100CL17 lol, if the motherboard can also handle it, my Asrock Z690 couldn't stabilize 5000 any CL or boot 5066.

Gotta stick a good fan on it for the 1.72v settings though, it doesn't even get hot, but it errors if it reaches the 50s at the tight settings I try to run it at.


----------



## RackarN

bhav said:


> 'Just' needs 1.72v for 5100CL17 lol, if the motherboard can also handle it, my Asrock Z690 couldn't stabilize 5000 any CL or boot 5066.
> 
> Gotta stick a good fan on it for the 1.72v settings though, it doesn't even get hot, but it errors if it reaches the 50s at the tight settings I try to run it at.


Yeah, i have a waterblock on my mem, never hits 40. stock with a fan was getting 50 with a fan @1400 RPM lol.. must have had a really bad fit from the heatsinks 
at 4800 i only need 1.54, on ryzen they needed 1.62.








stable for now


----------



## bhav

My temps are lower now on air because of the open frame case, wouldn't be able to run 4300CL14 on air in a normal case it seems. Looks like it needs to be kept under 45c for 4300CL14, and with 1.72v!

But doable on air with open frame


----------



## RackarN

bhav said:


> My temps are lower now on air because of the open frame case, wouldn't be able to run 4300CL14 on air in a normal case it seems. Looks like it needs to be kept under 45c for 4300CL14, and with 1.72v!
> 
> But doable on air with open frame


Ah! that explains the temps atleast 

Easycargo 30pcs Small Mini Heatsink Kit, Mini Cooler Heat Sink for Cooling VRM Stepper Driver MOSFET VRam Regulators (8.8mmx8.8mmx5mm) : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science
these should help getting it down a bit further  wont look pretty tho!

edit: so 680 was 100% the lowest TRFC could go. testing TRDWR 10 now. (dropped from 12)


----------



## bhav

So I spent all day fumbling over getting these settings to work without errors and all it needed was a better fan :x

Works now, will just see how much higher the trefi goes.


----------



## RackarN

ok enough for today, my brain is overloaded. got some progress atleast.


----------



## bhav

Trefi errored from 250k down to 225k.

If 200K passes, I'm done with it for now until I get a blue screen.

LOL 200k and 175k also fail, like then how the hell did 250k even boot? Crazy timing,

Down to 150k 

Well 100k is all that works so far.

AAAANNNNDDDD 150K also errors *** trash ram!

125K, then 112.5k then back to 100k if nothing else works :x


----------



## imrevoau

Spent some time over the last few weeks slowly dialing everything in, settled on this now. TM5 ABSOLUT does 3 passes, no worries, Y-Cruncher passes 5 times with all tests enabled. Currently at the mercy of my IMC, DR B Die is definitely a challenge to set up. It's a nice increase over my 12700KF though, anything over 4000 on that chip was a no-go. When I can be bothered I'll unretire my SR B Die kit and see what it can do.


----------



## bhav

Because ofc I am mad, 114500 trefi eventually errored, 113000 seems safe after 2 runs of 1usmus.

Soooo 113k - 114.5k next, except I'm getting my steam drive backed up to convert it to raid 0 first.


----------



## RackarN

bhav said:


> Because ofc I am mad, 114500 trefi eventually errored, 113000 seems safe after 2 runs of 1usmus.
> 
> Soooo 113k - 114.5k next, except I'm getting my steam drive backed up to convert it to raid 0 first.


oh man! no luck it seems :s

i went for G1 instead to balance latency and bandwidth, still alot of improvements to be made.

edit:
after many rounds of testing i figured uneven TCWL was giving random errors on my MB, but I was able to stabilize CL15 @4200 mhz. CL14 gave error after 20 rounds TM5.


----------



## drnilly007

Any best ddr5 kits 2x16 6600 ish low cas, pairing with 13600k and evga 4 drrslot classy board


----------



## imrevoau

drnilly007 said:


> Any best ddr5 kits 2x16 6600 ish low cas, pairing with 13600k and evga 4 drrslot classy board


Wrong Thread


----------



## SoloCamo

So I did a thing and bought an 11900k and decent z590 board for a little over $300 (for both). Going to see how well my 3733 14-14-14-32 settings do in gear 1 on a 11900k w/ abt @ 5.1 all core vs my 10900 vanilla @ 4.6 all core. Going to use my 10900 for my vm / rendering machine 11900k get's talked down on but at the price I bought it for it seems like a worthy upgrade, especially as I do emulation. 

Is 4000 gear 1 really that unobtainable? My 10900's IMC was far from great so I'm hoping I get better results with the 11900k.


----------



## Taraquin

SoloCamo said:


> So I did a thing and bought an 11900k and decent z590 board for a little over $300 (for both). Going to see how well my 3733 14-14-14-32 settings do in gear 1 on a 11900k w/ abt @ 5.1 all core vs my 10900 vanilla @ 4.6 all core. Going to use my 10900 for my vm / rendering machine 11900k get's talked down on but at the price I bought it for it seems like a worthy upgrade, especially as I do emulation.
> 
> Is 4000 gear 1 really that unobtainable? My 10900's IMC was far from great so I'm hoping I get better results with the 11900k.


From what I have heard, it is very unlikely to go beyond 3866 G1, but usually 3733 is max. If you can do 3800 you should consider yourself lucky. IMC of Coffee lake is much stronger than Rocket lake.


----------



## storm-chaser

SoloCamo said:


> Thanks. Seems most people go 4.7-4.8 on cache, going to try 1:1 with my all core clock of 4.6 as I'd imagine 4.6ghz isn't unrealistic?


You should test it out and see for yourself, IMO most 8/9/10th gen chips should not have a problem with the stability of the cache @ 4.6GHz. (I run my 9600KF cache @ 4.9GHz all day but when I try for 5.0GHz, its not completely stable and the system will crash 1-2 times a day. No matter how much vcore I throw at it.)


----------



## RackarN

bhav said:


> Because ofc I am mad, 114500 trefi eventually errored, 113000 seems safe after 2 runs of 1usmus.
> 
> Soooo 113k - 114.5k next, except I'm getting my steam drive backed up to convert it to raid 0 first.


also had to go back to the drawing board.. thought my system was stable, but games would crash.. over 24hr TM5 no errors, but games died. seems like trefi was the one causing this aswell. odd that TM5 never found anything swapped to anta777 extreme instead


----------



## yzonker

RackarN said:


> also had to go back to the drawing board.. thought my system was stable, but games would crash.. over 24hr TM5 no errors, but games died. seems like trefi was the one causing this aswell. odd that TM5 never found anything swapped to anta777 extreme instead


Did you run the yCruncher stress tests also? I've seen instances where Karhu would pass but yCruncher would fail quickly.


----------



## imanoobie

just built my first pc in bios it said the ram is running in gear 1 and I'm trying to learn how to get more out of my ram, in aida this what I got with my xmp of 3600-16-16-16-38, after setting up windows it was reading 3600-16,16,16,39 so I just made it 38 manually and it worked but yeah can anyone explain what cr2 means and if my latency can be dropped by a few quick changes any noob can make ?


----------



## RackarN

yzonker said:


> Did you run the yCruncher stress tests also? I've seen instances where Karhu would pass but yCruncher would fail quickly.


yeah, not sure if PI test (0 - 1 - 7) is the one recommenden tho. Was rock solid for most games, but new world would crash.


----------



## yzonker

RackarN said:


> yeah, not sure if PI test (0 - 1 - 7) is the one recommenden tho. Was rock solid for most games, but new world would crash.


I'm referring to (1-7-0).


----------



## Hiikeri

imanoobie said:


> can anyone explain what cr2 means and if my latency can be dropped by a few quick changes any noob can make ?


Cr = Command rate. On MB ram settings its commonly named 1T or 2T.

CPU oc you can do it ~1day, GPU oc you can do it ~1day...
Ram oc...it can take 1week, 2 weeks or month to get tuned, tight, stable settings. Endless swamp... 😉


----------



## imanoobie

Hiikeri said:


> Cr = Command rate. On MB ram settings its commonly named 1T or 2T.
> 
> CPU oc you can do it ~1day, GPU oc you can do it ~1day...
> Ram oc...it can take 1week, 2 weeks or month to get tuned, tight, stable settings. Endless swamp... 😉


I changed my xmp to cr1 and latency was the same makes no difference haha atleast I'm in gear1


----------



## RackarN

yzonker said:


> I'm referring to (1-7-0).


Thanks! will try it this time around!


----------



## Hiikeri

imanoobie said:


> I changed my xmp to cr1 and latency was the same makes no difference haha atleast I'm in gear1


Those are different things, Cr 1/2 = memory setting and gear 1/2 = memory controller setting.


----------



## imanoobie

Hiikeri said:


> Those are different things, Cr 1/2 = memory setting and gear 1/2 = memory controller setting.


my xmp set to gear by default i mean i also went and found comand rate and made 1 instead of the default 2 but there no difference in aida so i made it cr2 again


----------



## SoloCamo

Hiikeri said:


> CPU oc you can do it ~1day, GPU oc you can do it ~1day...
> Ram oc...it can take 1week, 2 weeks or month to get tuned, tight, stable settings. Endless swamp... 😉


Which is exactly why I've barely bothered with ram tuning over my 20+ years building pc's. Now that I've gotten into it a bit with a decent kit, I see the appeal especially with GPU / CPU oc'ing these days being either pointless, or way too easy.


----------



## RackarN

Gonna try 250k tREFI again, might have been IMC error.. was running 100.3 bclk since MSI refuses to lock at 100 

Edit: Nope.. meeh whatever, this is good enough.


----------



## Hiikeri

RackarN said:


> View attachment 2590078
> 
> 
> Gonna try 250k tREFI again, might have been IMC error.. was running 100.3 bclk since MSI refuses to lock at 100
> 
> Edit: Nope.. meeh whatever, this is good enough.


On my sight those tRCD+tRP looks pretty poor? Becouse those together means as much as tCL alone. Hynix based ram modules?

What's performance with Aida64? ..Or another ram perf. program?


----------



## RackarN

Hiikeri said:


> On my sight those tRCD+tRP looks pretty poor? Becouse those together means as much as tCL alone. Hynix based ram modules?
> 
> What's performance with Aida64? ..Or another ram perf. program?


Ye hynix, tRCDW is 14, tRC is as low as it will go.
Aida: 69k / 67k / 67k 45ms


----------



## persizi




----------



## Taraquin

Got a random freeze yesterday on my 12400F (Asus B660m K prime) with 3700cl14 tuned B-die gear 1. WHEA-error, but no code. Said core, but I don't have undervolt etc so that was weird. I use the Asus xmp tweaks so maybe they are to aggressive on voltage etc or maybe ram related?


----------



## digitalfrost

This boots. I have SA at 1.35v, VDDQ at 1.5v. But it throws errors in Karhu. I raised my tertiary timings by 2 and so far it looks good. But, I definitely need VDDQ at 1.5v for it to work.









According to Igorslab these should be safe voltages, do you guys agree?









Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings | Page 4 | igor'sLAB


What do you do with two Core i9-12900K trays? That's right, binning! Today we have a very special treat for you from the south of Germany. The system integrator MIFCOM has kindly provided us with a…




www.igorslab.de





e: Nevermind. I cannot get 4000Mhz stable. I think I have to settle for 3866Mhz.


----------



## adolf512

Wrong thread.


----------



## imrevoau

digitalfrost said:


> This boots. I have SA at 1.35v, VDDQ at 1.5v. But it throws errors in Karhu. I raised my tertiary timings by 2 and so far it looks good. But, I definitely need VDDQ at 1.5v for it to work.
> 
> 
> According to Igorslab these should be safe voltages, do you guys agree?


I've stopped running VDDQ above 1.35 because I personally don't believe 1.5+ is safe anymore. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## digitalfrost

Buildzoid says VDDQ not above 1.45 12th gen intel memory overclocking voltages

I was able to stabilize 3866 at 1.35 SA and 1.425 VDDQ. Im gonna leave it like that.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

RackarN said:


> also had to go back to the drawing board.. thought my system was stable, but games would crash.. over 24hr TM5 no errors, but games died. seems like trefi was the one causing this aswell. odd that TM5 never found anything swapped to anta777 extreme instead



Either could be frequency's swapping, threads changing tasks idle to full blast "c states" etc.. This no stress tests would catch a glimpse of it... rog stress test is the closest to use for that.


----------



## nikolaus85

does anyone have problems with aida64 extreme copy and latency on win 11 pro? Mine performs worst than win 10 pro, don't know why

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## storm-chaser

nikolaus85 said:


> does anyone have problems with aida64 extreme copy and latency on win 11 pro? Mine performs worst than win 10 pro, don't know why
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


I would recommend rolling back to windows 10. Windows 11 sucks.


----------



## Nizzen

storm-chaser said:


> I would recommend rolling back to windows 10. Windows 11 sucks.


Well, what sux for you, may not be the case for other people.
Does is perform bad for you, or do you just don't like it.

With my hardware, there is no reason not using Windows 11. It's really good.

Just telling others win 11 sux, don't give any contex of your "truth". It may be some old programs that don't like windows 11, and that's a good reason to avoid windows 11.
I bet windows server is a better option for you, than windows 10


----------



## storm-chaser

Nizzen said:


> Well, what sux for you, may not be the case for other people.
> Does is perform bad for you, or do you just don't like it.
> 
> With my hardware, there is no reason not using Windows 11. It's really good.
> 
> Just telling others win 11 sux, don't give any contex of your "truth". It may be some old programs that don't like windows 11, and that's a good reason to avoid windows 11.
> I bet windows server is a better option for you, than windows 10


I hate the GUI, menu options, lock screen, it looks like it was pasted together by some junior level programmers in the 11th hour. I also despise the lame backgrounds that come with windows 11 by default. The context menus have less options, the OS is slower and belongs on a phone not a computer. The center start menu kills me, and the fit and finish is horrifically bad. 😆


----------



## Nizzen

storm-chaser said:


> I hate the GUI, menu options, lock screen, it looks like it was pasted together by some junior level programmers in the 11th hour. I also despise the lame backgrounds that come with windows 11 by default. The context menus have less options, the OS is slower and belongs on a phone not a computer. The center start menu kills me, and the fit and finish is horrifically bad. 😆


Call it user failure....
I have startmenu on the left in windows 11.... OS is faster, and I have oll the options in menus.


----------



## nikolaus85

Nizzen said:


> Well, what sux for you, may not be the case for other people.
> Does is perform bad for you, or do you just don't like it.
> 
> With my hardware, there is no reason not using Windows 11. It's really good.
> 
> Just telling others win 11 sux, don't give any contex of your "truth". It may be some old programs that don't like windows 11, and that's a good reason to avoid windows 11.
> I bet windows server is a better option for you, than windows 10


i think i solved. It was dual shock 4 connected that caused lower copy and high latency on win 11 pro spectre super lite. Once unplugged it, i had same results as before. I will investigate more.

Inviato dal mio RMX3363 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## storm-chaser

Nizzen said:


> Call it user failure....
> I have startmenu on the left in windows 11.... OS is faster, and I have oll the options in menus.
> View attachment 2592721


Definitely a Microsoft fail not a user fail.


----------



## sultanofswing

Would anyone happen to have any tips for G-Skill FlareX [email protected] B-die kit on the X299 platform?
Right now I am booted to windows at [email protected]@1.49v
Have tried a few games and it's fine but fails testmem5 about 45 seconds in to the test.
Since it's X299 there is not much info out there on secondary timings for B-die.


----------



## AirLife

Hi. I'm new to overclocking. I was able to make these values. Can I do better?

SK Hynix DJR - 1.55 voltage


----------

